The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-11 00:00:00

ected to the penny postage, and woul :1 abolish that
3Ystern. Now he (the Chancellor of tl to Exchequer)
ileLl quite the opensite opinion.—(lieer, hear.) He be-
lieved it had conferred great benefit on ell classes of the
community, and he took the opportunity of stating that
since the establishment of the penny pc )stage the number
of letters had quadrupled. During the first year the
number actually doubled, and within the last six years
that increased number had doubled; e o that, in point of
filet, since the introdoction of the s; estera, the number
of letters which had passed through t lie Post-office had
actually quadrupled. The lion. Gen tleman objected to
the improved prison discipline of the present day, and
be supposed they would have another resolution on that
Subject; but lie doubted very much if the House would
agree with him in his views. Havine noticed the Hon.
Gentleman's propositions regarding Ireland, the cur.
ropey, free trade in gold, end the am ount of British
capital locked up in debt, the Right 11 Incurable Gen-
tleman showed, that as each of those q uostions was to
form the groundwork for inquiry and rt 'solutions, they
could not expect to get through the pro erarnme before
the end of half a dozen sessions at least.—(Hear,
!leer.) On these grounds, therefore, h a felt justified
In resisting the motion of the Hot tourable Gen-
tleman, and he trusted the House , by opposing
the proposition submitted to their consk eration, would
Prevent the waste of time which such an inquiry as pro-
posed would certainly entail. While bet ;ffered this op-
position to the resolution, he felt bound to state, that
year by year a progressive revision of tax ation had been
going on. Various alterations had be en made in their
Customs and Excise duties, and bar ily a year passed
that some portion of the burthen of ta: cation on articles
of corbumption and manufacture w is not removed.
Leaving out of the question the propert r and corn duties,
no less than thirty millions of taxes b; id been remitted
since the year 1813. During the last four years, from
1845 to 1818, the amount produr red by Custom
duties had increased 887,0001, namely, from 20,700,0001.
to 22,593.9301., while in the same p eriod there were
remitted in Custom duties 4,681,000.: There could
be no better pro ,f, he maintained, et the remission
of duties on articles of consumption and manufacture,
and of the t, ndency of the Governs I tent to relieve the
labouring classes from those taxes wh i ch' interfered with
their employment. The Right llon. Gentleman vindi-
cated himself and other Members or the Government
from the charge made against them by the Hon. Member
for West Surrey, namely, that when :lot in power they
held out the expectation of effecting ; treat reduction of
taxation, and he concluded by again c; tiling on the House
to resist the motion, as it' carried lit ; believed it would
only lead to a waste of time.
Mr. SPOONER considered that the Right Honourable
Gentleman had endeavoured to divert the attention of the
House from the resolution submitted to its consideration
11 his Hon .Friend the Member for West Surrey. It
did not follow that if they went ir.tc Committee, they
were bound to enter into all the sub iects touched upon
by the Hon. Gentleman in his amu sing address. The
proposition which they had to decid a was, not whether
they entertained his views, but es hether the House
should resolve itself into a Cotnmitt to to consider the
Public expenditure, and the existing .system of taxation,
and how far both might be revised, with a view to re-
lieve the pressure on the industry of the country. Now,
he should like to knew how could at: ;v man who opposed
that motion justify himself before hit; constituents ? Tho
Right Honourable Gentleman, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, said that the present G overnment, by the
constant revision of taxation, wf is making great
Progress towards the object which the Honourable
Member for West Surrey had in vi ew. Now, it that
were the case, how did it come to pa se that the expendi-
ture, which in 1842 amounted to 50,000,000/., reached in
1849 between 53,000,000/. and 54,00 0000/ ? With regard
to thepropositioa of reducing the salaries of public officers
to the standard of 1794, be was prepared to show that it
would not be the extravagent chat ege which the Right
Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, en-
deavoured to make the House beli' we. Before the war,
the Master-General of the Ordna• ace was paid 1,5601.,
but he now received 3,0001. per arraum. The Surveyor-
General has a salary of 325/ ; it was now 1,200/.; and
the Storekeeper's salary was increased from 965/. to
1,200/. per annum. It was with ehose officers the Hon.
Gentleman's resolution intended eo deal, and not with
the incomes of the Secretary of St ate, or the President
of the Council. He would vote s sith his Hon. Friend
because he desired to go into Com mitteo to see if they
could remove the distress without violating our obliga-
tions with the public creditor.
Sir JOHN TYRELL would nr t have addressed the
House had not the Chancellor of thee Exchequer and the
Honourable Gentleman who ineroduced the motion,
told them that the gentlemen whc. addressed the farmers
recently, were imposing on the m when they said, that
protection must again be given to corn. Now, he denied
that the gentlemen who had addressed the farmers in
their own counties or elsewhere, lied been imposing upon
them. He:could not agree in the views of the Hon.
Member who brought forward thiamotion, and he should
not support him.
Mr. M. GIBSON said that the words of the motion
were unexceptionable, but the o,einions which he ex-
pressed he could not assent to in the slightest degree.
He could not agree with him in going back to an in-
creased system of postage. At the same time he did not
like to be considered as an obstacle to a revision or re-
duction of expenditure; but he thought it ought not to
be put forward in its present sh ape, and, therefore, he
would move the previous question,
Mr. COBDEN seconded the amendment.
Mr. PLUMPTRE regretted tee find that the Honour-
able Member fur Surrey had treated the question with
levity. It was no laughing mat cer, for the people were
in deep distress, and the day must come when the ques-
tion would press itself upon the consideration of the
country.
Mr. JACKSON Said he came down to the House to
support the motion, but the speech of the Hon. Mover
WAS so inconsistent with his motion, that he could not
think of giving his vote in favour of the latter.
Mr. B. COCHRANE should feel great pleasure in
giving his support to a motion, the object of which was
to relieve the poor of this country, by throwing the bur-
dens of the State upon the shoulders of those who were
best able to bear them.—(Hear.)
Mr. MUNTZ said the terms of the motion were un-
exceptionable, and the statements made in support of it
were perfectly legitimate. He brought forward a mo-
tion on the same subject some time ago, and he then
made statements which his experience had since fully
confirmed. This he would say, that great distress pre-
vailed amongst the people, and some means must be taken
to remove the pressure upon them; and they might de-
pend upon it that this must be done, and would be done
by some one. Trade was deteriorating, and wages
were deteriorating, and seeing all these things, he
should support the motion.
Colonel SIBTHORP would also support the motion,
because he believed it to be necessary to do something
to relieve the distress of the people. He had given
notice of a motion in reference to the army and navy.
He did this because it was right to overturn everything,
in order that the bad might be selected from the good,
and that justice might he done to the people, and the
trickery, trumpery, and trash of every Government
should be exposed.

Mr. HEYIVORTH said distress existed, and the only
way to relieve it was by extending commerce.—(Hear,
bear.) Unless they did this, and revised the whole of
the indirect taxation of the country, they would not be
able to stem the tide of pauperism and distress which
!as flowing over the country. If the motion was car•
tied economy might be promoted, but he did not attach
so much consequence to savings as to the remedy he
proposed.

_ Mr. HENLEY saw no objection to the resolution.
As this appeared to be a practical measure he should
support it. With regard to the amount of salaries, all
he would say was, that the prices of the necessaries of
life were very different from what they were now when
these salaries were fixed, and ho therefore thought that
ground for inquiry into their amount. There was great
competition in every walk of life, and ha saw no reason
why Government offices should be exempted from the
principle of obtaining services at a moderate charge.
He should vote for the motion.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said, Ireland had not bzen in-
cluded in this measure, but he should contend that if she
was fairly dealt with she would be a source of consider-
able revenue to this country.
Mr. DISRAELI said, the motion now under consider-
ation was one of universal interest. He had not heard
the entire of his Hon. Friend's speech in introducing
that resolution, but he had heard a great part of it, and
he felt bound to acquit his Hon. Friend of having treated
the subject with levity. A spirit of philosophic sarcasm
did not involve levity. He knew his Hon. Friend had.
devoted great attention to this subject. He could not
admit that the resolution might not be separated from
the speech which accompanied it ; but when calling the
attention of the House to so important a question, which
Was, in fact, equivalent to ,taking into consideration the
state of the country, it was usual to lay on the table of
the House the resolutions embodying the views by
which it was proposed to meet the difficulties
alleged to exist. He thought his lion. Friend did not do
himself justice in bringing forward this motion in
neglecting to adopt the usual precedent followed on simi-
lar occasions. Had he adopted that course, he would
not have hem taunted as he had been by various Mem •
betse with having made omissions, such as not having
!erred to Ireland. The course he had pursued led to
this result, that it was only by accident that the House
had not come to a division upon the motion when the
Ron. Member had concluded his speech. Had he given
due notice that he required the deliberate and mature
°Pinion of the House upon the several questions. and at
the Sauna time candidlyoh laid down what were his own
opinions, it could
takve happened that the sense of
the House could bet
comprehensive a questia en upon so important and
the contrary,on after a short debate. On
House having been prepared for
the question, thethre result would have been that after a
debate worth
importance of the subject, the
House wouldylmove. gthiveen a vote satisfactory to the country
and to thceaisreconnstituents; but hew ould ask, would that
be the
frlolme would not object to the motion
because he diffeorewd?
the concl •
which his Hon. Friuenndophit mnaarnryiveodf. He bad nuestiMaat
tion in expressing
long period of
time would elapse before the that
us:°veould be called
oil'onito Committee up in
upon and would he induced to
aiour.able Friend to
this subject, but he put it to hisg
consider whether he would be advancing the object
he had in view, by taking a
motion, in a House which was not fully attended,u hiss
ft
was to he observed that there were many bruanoch the question which had not been touched
was true his Honourable Friend had made mapnla.,„n,it
gestions, which must have convinced every one, that must give a decided opinion as to the existing ays
tern of taxation. He hoped his Honourable leriind
from a due regard to the importance of the question
nnt press a 4,cisiim without ma'ure consideratinn'
and wuuld not iac#3 tuoin ill tuc plinut pu.11.1011 ut
ut-
viding on his motion. Ile was most anxious that his
Hon. Friend should withdraw his motion, rather than
oblige him to adopt the previous question which carried.-