The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAr 3.
The LORD CHANCELLOR touk his seat on the Woolsack at Five
o'Clock.
it Mr. BERNAL and others, from the Commons, brought up a copy of the
eeep°4 of the Select Committee on the Small Tenements Bill ; also
7.et:,51 Private Bills, which were severally read a first time.
pray"ie puke of CLEVELAND presented a petition from Gateshead,
Thnt for the abolition of the present system of Negro apprenticeship:
arid Marquis of SLIGO presented a petition from the High Sheriff
of vran
d Jury of Mayo, against the Irish Poor-law Bill, in the prayer
4°ZeWmch he concurred. He was willing to give to the poor out of his
rahundance, but he did not like the system of giving relief to the
sip -b°died• Also petitions for the immediate abolition of Negro
prenticeship, from Shepton, Whitchavcn, Belfast, and several other
arh'e-nTuarlY of them were signed by women.
tholie .:nse of RICHMOND presented a petition from the Roman Ca.lrish —"J'oP and other inhabitants of Waterford, praying that in the
root Law Bill the word impotent' be substituted for' destitute.'
The INTERMENT OF THE POOR.
•
viduat Bishop of EXETER presented a petition from an indi.
dissect complaining that the bodies of paupers who had been
ed were not decently buried, but were thrown together promiscu-
c'UstY• The petitioners had found out a method for promoting the rapid
decomposition of bodies. He would move that it be laid on the table,
and then he would:follow that up, by moving that it be referred to the
Peor_la~vCommittee.
Earl RADNOR could not see what connection the petition had with
the Poor-law Bill. It could only have been presented for the purpose of
Casting obloquy upon that Bill.
The Bishop of EXETER was aware that it. had not anything to do
with the Poor-law Bill ; but as the Committee was sitting for the pur-
Poses of enquiry, it would be better that enquiry should be made, and if
the allegations were not true, the petitioner ought to meet with merited
Punishment.
The Duke of RICHMOND had read over the petition, and he did
not find one word respecting union workhouses in it.
The Bishop of EXETER--1 can set the Noble
The Duke of RICHMOND—One at a time, if the Rev. Prelate
pleases—it is snore regular in this House. It mentions the parish work-
house, but not union workhouses. He thought it would be better that
the 'ter. Prelate should move that the petition be referred to a Select
Committee, to Le appointed for the purpose of specially inquiring into
the facts of the petition.
The Bishop of EXETER would certainly press his motion.
Lord MELBOURNE conceived that the Rev. Prelate ought to make
inquiry, and make out a case, before the House referred the petition to
a Committee, which he had not yet done. The Rev. I'relate anxiously
Wished it to be understood that he was not in any way answerable for
the allegations in the petition, and it was not usual for either House of
Parliament to grant Committees upon such loose allegations made by
an unknown party.
The Earl of RADNOR and Lord WHARNCLIFFE deprecated the
rending of the petition to the Poor Law Committee—it was rather an
attack upon the Anatomy Bill of a former Session, and had nothing at
all to do with the operation of the Poor Law Bill.
The Mahon of EXETER said, as his motion met with so much op.
Position, he would withdraw it.

CHURCH COMMISSION.
The Bishop of EXETER wished to ask the Noble Viscount at the
til,!el of her Majesty's Government whether it was the intention of Mi..
usters to proceed with the Bills for carrying into effect the recommen-
.atlon of the Church Commissioners this Session ?
Viscount MELBOURNE replied in the affirmative. The Plurali-
"F: Bill and the Bill for the regulation of Church leases under Deans and
" aPters would be introduced as speedily as the other business would
Perna.

MALTA COMMISSION.
Earl RIPON then moved for a return of the expenses incurred by
the Malta Commission. He contended that it was useless and unneces-
sary,
He did not mean to deny that there were no matters respecting
that Island which demanded the attention of the Government ; but he
denied that there were any of such a magnitude as to justify the Govern-
Ment in running away from its own responsibility, and putting it
aon the shoulders of others, to enquire and recommend what reme-
es should be applied. The Secretary of State had no difficulty
getting any information he might want—all he had to do was to send
out a despatch to the Governor, and he would at once have got more in-
formation than any that could be obtained by gentlemen sent out with-
Out any previous knowledge of tie Island. The first Report ran
through fifteen pages; and would they believe it, it was entirely taken
lip with that new and very important subject, the Liberty of the Press?
Now could his Noble Friend really want any information on such
a subject—but if he did, could not either the Governor or the
Gentleman who filled the office analogous to our Attorney-General
--they would have given it him in a moment, and without putting
the Country to any expense. He would venture to say that the Noble
rd might get as much reasoning on the liberty of the press out of any
of his clerks in Downing-street, as was contained in that Report. The
Commissioners came to the conclusion that the censorship should be
w
°lished ; but then subsequently they gave a recommendation which
4.11
iga
an Peculiar; for, having settled that there should be no censorship,
that there should be an independent newspaper, conducted with
sd Integrity, they remark that the state of the island of Malta is

such that, unless a newspdper Was helped by the Government, it could
not e'd Oh i that ihetefoec there could be no Independent news-
paffr i and therefore, they recommended that it should in some
way be assisted by the Government. He found that the Gnzette was
published once a week at 3d, end that the limber sold In November,
1836, amounted IQ ~.,0-101 to Engllslithen and 156 to native
;-"-
MallOc• tonnis.ioners next went en inquiry on the
subject of the corn trade, and the duties levied on the island.
He would ask, what use was the Board of Trade, what use the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Board of Treasury, and the Board
of Customs, if the Noble Lord could not get, within one half
hour sufficient information to enable him to settle the question without
sending out as Commissioners a lawyer and another gentleman ? The
Commissioners had even inquired into such trivial matters as the best
iniode of disposing of the Government stock of corn, whether it should
sbe done by public auction or private tender. The expense of the corn.
mission ought also to be considered, and especially at a time when there
in the last quarter, a deficiency in the revenue of between 700,000/.
-and 800,0001., and which, no doubt, in the next quarter would be worse.
He also saw that there was a great decrease in the export of our staple
manufactures as compared with last year. These considerations made
every item of expenditure of serious importance. The renewal of the
two Houses of Parliament would cost the country from 250,000/. to
300,000/. a year, and he did not think they would even be completed
under two millions. Besides, we were engaged in operations which cost
a great deal, There were those piebald operations now going on on the
coast of Spain. He did not know whether we were at war or not. It
was true that under the treaty with Spain that country was bound to pay
us ; but everybody knew that she had not a maravedi in her treasury,
and he (lid not believe that England could ever be so ungenerous as to
ask her for it. They had also sent one of the finest armies that ever
existed to Canada, and this, of course, was a considerable item of ex.
pease. He hoped, if the Commissioners should not be able completely to
satisfy his Noble Friend on every point that he (the Earl of Ripon) might
offer him one suggestion. The Noble Lord would find a trip to Malta
most interesting. The climate was very salubrious and healthy. He
spoke from experience, for he had visited the island himself. The Noble
Lord would be received with all hospitality. Besides, it would cost the
country nothing, and the Noble Lord would come back with all the in.
formation necessary for a satisfactory settlement of the question. The
Noble Earl concluded by moving for a return of the expense of the Com.
mission sent out to Malta.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord GLENELG was very much indebted to his Noble Friend for his
very good-humoured advice, and for the interest which he took for his
health and general enjoyment. He (Lord Glenelg) should be most happy
to act upon his Noble Friend's suggestion, if his Noble Friend would
accompany him. He was most happy to appoint his Noble Friend third
Commissioner, and, from what he knew of his compositions, both whilst
in the Colonial Office and since, he thought his Noble Friend's reports
might fairly be placed as rivals with those of the commissions on the
table.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the expense of the commission,
he could inform the Noble Earl that the two Commissioners were to re.
ceive three guineas per day, and the Secretary thirty shillings. Ac.
cordingly, up to February last the expenses might have been 1,5001.;
but it had not exceeded 1,6901. He thought he had a right to complain
that the Noble Earl had brought the subject before the House, when all
the papers were not before it. The second part of the report was not
on the table, and there were other communications still to be made. The
Noble Earl asserted that the Secretary of State could obtain all the ne-
cessary information here without a commission, and that Sir F. Pon.
conby was of the same opinion. What were the circumstances under
which the commission was appointed? In 1835 a petition had
been presented to the House of Commons, by which representa.
tions were made by Maltese subjects of the injustice with which
their country was treated by England. It also prayed for redress.
He (Lord Glenelg) referred these complaints to the local Govern. I
ment of Malta, and required a report on the subject. The lo-
cal Government entered into an investigation, but as the opinion
prevailed in Malta that no party could complain against the Govern-
ment the witnesses- refused to come forward. The question then re-
solved it into this—which would be better, an inquiry before the other
House or an inquiry conducted in some other way ? It was obvious
that an inquiry before the House of Commons would be far from satis-
factory, and Sir F. Ponsonby agreed with him (Lord Glenelg) that a
public commission would be the best course to adopt. With respect
to the expenses of the Island, Sir F. Pensonby, during his Government,
in a revenue of 100,000/. per annum made a reduction of 14,0001.
But his Noble Friend said that all the improvements in contemplation
might be made without a reference to the country itself. If that were
the case why had they not been effected when his Noble Friend was at
the head of the Colonial Department. Many of their reports were in
a state of readiness—most of them were in a state of very great forward.
ness—the Commission itself was drawing to a close. But without these
reports he (Lord Glenelg) affirmed that no conclusion could be come to
on the subject, and therefore he begged Noble Lords to postpone their
judgments on it till they were laid on the table of the House. They had
likewise, examined into the financial state of that country, and found
that tome Officers of the State who had no duties to perform were
highly paid, because they were exclusively English, while others who
were Italian were confined to the lowest offices, and paid the most trifling
salaries for their services. That circumstance was the cause of very
great discontent and exacerbation of feeling among the Maltese. They
found, too, that a marked distinction was kept up between the two
races, English and Maltese—a distinction denoted by the uniform exal-
tation of the one to all offices and places of trust, and power, and emo-
lument, and the consequent degradation of the other. The consequence
of this vicious state of things was a just jealousy on the part of the
Maltese against the English. He (Lord Glenelg) believed that nothing
could be more calculated to create disaffection in the minds of the peo-
ple of Malta than a perseverance in this distinction. He believed that
when all the Papers were before the House, their Lordships would con_
elude that the Commission had been highly beneficial to the country.
The Duke of WELLINGTON, who was occasionally very inaudible,
said—l should be most unwilling at this late hour to trouble the House
with any observations which I could offer on the subject, if the Noble
Lord opposite (Lord Glenelg) had not adverted to the commission named
to inquire into the affairs of Malta when I was in office. With respect
to that commission, I have to say that there is a marked difference
between it and all other commissions on the game subject appointed since
that period. The commission referred to was one presided over by a
Cabinet Minister, the late Lord Rosalyn, and it had for its object to
ascertain the state of the revenue, and the amount of expenditure of
the different colonies and dependencies of the country. I have to say,
my Lords, there is this difference between that commission and all
others appointed since that period—that commission never cost the
country a single penny.—(Hear.) It worked zealously and indefati-
gably—it conducted its inquiries with judgment and sound discretion—
and it made a most valuable Report on the matters referred to its consi-
deration. On that Report we acted, my Lords, and on that Report, my
Lords, I believe you will find all the colonial reforms which have since
then been effected were founded. I shall now, my Lords, advert
to the constitution of the commission alluded to by the Noble
Baron ; but this I feel called on to say, I was very much struck
with their Report.—(Hear, hear.) This commission was appointed
here, and sent over from this country to Malta for one purpose, and
one purpose only, and that purpose, and that purpose only, I maintain
they have effected. That purpose was to make a written report on the
subject of a free Press in the island, a report which enabled the Noble
Baron to write his despatch on the same subject eight months after_
wards.—(Hear, hear.) That commission was appointed in September,
its ostensible object being to inquire into various matters connected
with Malta; but for nearly the first twelve months it did nothing be-
sides making a proposition to the Government of thecountry for the esta-
blishment of a free Press in that island. Now, in regard to this matter
of a free Press In Malta, I crate your Lordships' attention to the facts of
the ease for a moment, and I beg the House to bear them in mind.
What is Malta ? It is a fortress and a seaport—it is a great naval and
military arsenal for our shipping and forces in the Mediterranean. We
hold it by conquest, and by treaty after conquest. We hold it as an im-
portant post, as a great naval and military arsenal, and as nothing more.
My Lords, if these are the facts, we might as well think of planting a
free Press on the fore deck of the Admiral's flag-ship in the Mediterra-
nean, or in the cascrnes of the batteries of Gibraltar, or in the camp
of Sir John Colborne in Canada, as of establishing it in Malta.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) A free Press in Malta in the Italian language
is an absurdity.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Of the hundred thousand
individuals who compose the population of Malta three.fourths at least
speak nothing but the Maltese dialect, and do not understand the Italian
language.—(Hear, hear.) Of the one hundred thousand inhabitants of
the island, at least three-fourth can neither read nor write. What ad-
vantages, then, can accrue to the people of Malta from the establish.
ment of a free press ?—(Hear, hear.) We do not want to teach our
English sailors and soldiers to understand Italian. A free press will
find no readers among them either. The free press is to be conducted
not by foreign Italians, but by Maltese, subjects of her Majesty, enjoy-
ing the same privileges as we do. Now, what does this mean? It
means that the license to do wrong is unlimited. But I shall leave the
subject.—(Hear, hear.) In the report alluded to by the Noble Baron, I
see that Mr. Nugent and Sir Frederick Hankey are recommended to be
removed from their offices, and pensioned off at the expense of the
Maltese; but I see nothing in the report at all calculated to raise the
Maltese in their own estimation. I repeat, my Lords, that Malta is an
English settlement—a dependency, the business of which must be car-
ried on for the safety of this country and for nothing else.
Viscount MELBOURNE said that the Noble Duke thought, in ap.
pointing his commission, that the duties required of it would be best
pci f 'ruled at home. The Government to which he (Viscount Mel-
bourne) belonged thought they would be best discharged abroad. That
was the difference between them. It appeared to him (Viscount Mel-
bourne) that the best mode of proceeding in the matter would be to hi.
quire on the spot, and to that end he thought the appointment of an
independent commission for the purpose the most effective means of
arriving at the facts. It was done. The question then was as to the
wisdom, discretion, and prudence of the act. He (Viscount Mel-
bourne) was surprised at the light and easy manner in which his
Noble Friend had treated the subject of a free press. Now
he (Viscount Melbourne) should think that the speech of
the Noble Duke had undeceived him in that view of the
case, and pointed out the difficulties with which the Govern-
ment had to contend in abolishing the censorship of the press. There
were certainly various and most discrepant opinions on the subject, and
there were opinions of those who had weight, which viewed the subject
somewhat differently from his Noble Friend. He denied, on the part of
the Government, any wish to disturb the political or social repose of any
other State whatever, more especially with those of which we were on a
friendly footing. He denied it on the part of the individuals forming
that commission also. On the whole, he (Viscount Melbourne) thought
the Noble Duke had treated the matter rather lightly when he compared
the Island of Malta with the deck of a man-of.war ; and he fully agreed
with his Noble Friend (Lord Glenelg) that there was no just grounds of
apprehension that the dangers pointed out by the Noble Duke would
ever come to pass.

Lord GLENELG and the Duke of WELLINGTON severally
explained.

The motion was then agreed to.
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer and others brought up thy Consoli-
dated Fund Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a
second.

Their Lordships then adjourned at a Quarter to Eight o'Clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, MAY 3.
The Gallery Was not open till half- past four o'clock, in consequence
of there being ballots fur the Bedford and Waterford Election Corn.
mittees.

NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE RAILWAY BILL.
On the motion of Mr. P. HOWARD, the Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Railway Bill was read a third time, and passed.
Mr. DENNISTOUN presented three petitions from different Societies
in Glasgow against the Glasgow Waterworks Bill.
Sir R. INGLIS presented a petition from persons residing on the
Bedford estate against the St. Pancras Paving Act.
Mr. CHALMERS presented three petitions in favour of the Glasgow
and Edinburgh Railway Bill.

BEDFORD ELECTION COMMITTEE.'
Mr CHALMERS appeared at the bar with the reduced list for the
Bedford Election Committee, consisting of the following Members :
Mr. Whitmore, Sir Charles Lemon, Mr. Blennerbassett, Mr. Evans,
Mr. Ponsonby, Mr. C. Fox StrangwaYs, Mr. Heathcote, Mr. C. Villiers,
Mr. Speirs, Lord Ebrington and Mr. George R Phillips.
EDINBURGH AND GLASGOW RAILWAY.
On the Adjourned Debate upon the further consideration of the Re-
port on this Bill,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he had to propose a clause, which
he thought would obviate all dilficulties,—enacting that the Company
should not be allowed to exercise any of the powers under this Bill, until
the sum of 80,000/., being 10 per cent. on the capital, shall have been
paid up and deposited, from the amount paid up actually by the sub.
scribers.

—..—....
The clause was brought up, and read a first time.
Mr. PHAED said that the Clause ought to be postponed to give an
opportunity of well considering it.
The ATTORNEY.GLIstRAL said that on Tuesday he was per.
fectly willing that it should be postponed, but he thought it was under-
stood that it should be discussed to day. It was provided in the Act

that it should not come into operation, until the whole of the 80,000/.
was paid up by the shareholders.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET was understood to say, that the
pdstponement of the clause would not impede the progress of the Bill,
and would be more satisfactory to those who were unfavourable to the
IneasUre.

the clause as it stood was very
sir E W A Uri, oi • -,nnted. The
ambiguous, and ought t•i be well considered before it AV
mode in which the money had been advanced did not by any means
meet the intention of the Legislature.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that as the clause was now
drawn, 80,0001 must be paid by the shareholders.
The clause was then ordered to be printed.
WATERFORD ELECTION COMMITTEE.

Mr. CHALMERS brought up the reduced list of the Members
elected to serve on this Committee. The following were the names
Mr. Richard Miles, Mr. Thomas Williams, Sir Edward Kerrison, Mr
J. E. Vivian, Mr. Win. Willsherc, Major M.Namara, Mr. A. E. L.
ther, Mr. Richard Blakemore, Mr. W. N. Parker, Mr. Compton, and
Mr. Maher.
EDINBURGH AND GLASGOW RAILWAY.

Mr. P. THOMSON then proposed three resolutions, of which he had
given notice, to the effect that the Standing Orders had not been corn.
plied with.
Mr. GILLON opposed the resolutions, because they asserted that
which was not the fact, viz., that the promoters of the Bill had not
complied with the Standing Orders. Was it the intention of the Right
Hon. Gentleman to say that each subscriber should pay up 10 per cent.
on the subscription list ?
Sir E. SUGDEN said it was not the intention of the House to pre-
scribe that each individual subscriber should have paid up his sub-
scription, because there would always be some defaulters, who would
be punished by the regulations to which they had submitted frequently
by the forfeiture of their shares But what the House intended was
that the general body of the shareholders shall have bow fide by their
subscriptions paid up the required amount.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. PRAED thought the resolutions ought, to be postponed till the
clause which had been proposed was decided on.

Sir R. INGLIS consideied it was not the province of the Standing
Orders' Committee to enter into the merits of the Bill.
Lord EBRINGTON, who spoke in so low and indistinct a tone that
it was scarcely possible to catch a word, was understood to support the
resolution.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the objection of Gentlemen
opposite to the resolution was entirely unnecessary, as the Act sufficiently
provided that the 10 per cent. required by the Standing Orders should
be paid up ultimately, in lieu of the SO,OOO/., and before the Act came
into operation, which would fully meet the intention of the Legislature.
Mr. PRAED said, that if the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Attorney.
General) persevered, he would divide the House.—(Hear.)
Mr. P. THOMSON defended the resolution, but from the noise in
the House he was scarcely audible. We understood him to say,
that if the interpretation which gentlemen opposite wished to put upon
the Standing Orders were acted upon in all cases, it would be very diffi-
cult for parties to get Bills of this nature through Parliament.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL thought the consideration of the Clause
ought to be postponed.

Mr. WARBURTON thought that the present was the proper stage
for passing the resolution proposed.
After some observations from Sir.E. SUGDEN and the ArromsEY-
GENERAL, which were inaudible in the Gallery,
Mr. P. THOMSON proposed that the debate upon the clause should
be adjourned to Monday, which was agreed to.

NEW POOR LAWS.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented several petitions from Kent, pray-
ing for the amendment of the New Poor.law Act.
Lord J. RUSSELL said in the course of the Session, he would intro.
diming a Bill for the amendment of certain portions of the Act.—(We
believe this to be the purport of what his Lordship very indistinctly said.)
COFFEE HOUSES.
Mr. PRIME gave notice of a motion for the introduction of a Bill
for licensing coffee-houses.
CHURCH PROPERTY.
The SPEAKER asked if any Gentleman had petitions to present on
the subject of Church Property; if so, the House was then ready to
receive them.

Sir R. INGLIS presented several petitions from places in Yorkshire
and Bedfordshire, praying against the application of any part of the
Church property to any but ecclesiastical purposes.
Sir GEORGE CLERK presented a similar petition from Stamford,
amidst loud cheers from the Tories.

Colonel SIBTHORP presented similar petitions from the Isle of
Ely, and other places.

Mr. Kelly, Lord Sandon, Mr. Goulburn, Lord Ashley, and several
others, presented similar petitions, but we could not catch the names of
the places, on account of the noise in the House.

Sir F. TRENCH presented a petition signed by 2,000 British
Manufacturers, praying for the adoption of some measure to protect
their trade.

YEOMANRY.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said before he proceeded with the busi-
ness appointed for that evening, he wished to make a few observa-
tions upon another subject. He found that, in consequence of the
debate that had taken place with regard to the Yeomanry, an impression
had gone abroad that it was the intention of Government, within some
limited period, say within a year, to propose the reduction of the
Yeomanry of the country. Now he could assure the House,
that nothing that had come from her Majesty's Government
tended at all to countenance such a proposition. His own
opinion was, that it would be better to constitute a militia force
on a basis more extensive than it was at present. Of course, if that
militia force were constituted by means of an Act of Parliament, it
would hereafter come to be a question, whether it would be better to
keep up that force and the yeomanry together, but nothing that he had
said tended at all to imply that it was the intention of the Govermnen t
to put an end to the yeomanry altogether.
Sir R. PEEL was afraid the explanation which the Noble Lord had
given would not remove from the minds of many persons interested in the
maintenance of the yeomanry ,the impression under which thoy laboured
in consequence of the debate the other night. There might have been
an apprehension that it was the intention of Government to dis-
solve that force after a twelvemonth had elapsed ; but even
if that apprehension were removed, there would still remain
another unfortunate impression, because he thought the inference
to be drawn from what the Noble Lord had stated was, that if in the
case of an unforeseen disturbance, there should be an unfortunate
necessity to apply for some stronger force, the yeomanry would not be
that force.—(Hear, hear.)

Lord JOHN RUSSELL.—What I stated the other night was,
that I thought one of the great uses of a Yeomanry was to pre-
vent disturbances taking place, from the knowledge that that
Yeomanry existed in the neighbourhood. What I stated further
was, that I thought in the case of a disturbance, it was far more advis-
able to resort to a regular force.—(Cheers.) Of course, I do not mean
to say, that if a sufficient number of regular forces do not exist in the
neighbourhood, it. may not be advisable to resort to the Yeomanry;
but I must still entertain the opinion that the calling in of the Yeomanry
is far more likely to continuo and dissention in different parts
of the community than the calling in of the regular force.—(Cheers )
Sir ROBERT PEEL—.I beg leave to ask the Noble Lord of what
use will be the impression that there is a large yeomanry force in the
neighbourhood, if ►here is to be another impression that such force will
not be called out ?—(Loud Cheers from the Conservatives.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Now, really, what the Right Hon. Gentle-
man has Just said, makes it necessary for me to state what 1 had hoped I
had clearly stated before. Ido not think it is the most desirable
force to call out If disturbance exist ; but if there is not
a sufficient force in the neighbourhood then the yeomanry must be re-
sorted to, although I wish another force should be in the neighbour-
hood.—(Loud Ministerial cheers.)