The Sun.
London, England, 1836-05-17 00:00:00

SABBATH OBSERVANCE.

Petitions for the better Observance of the Lord's Day
were presented by Lord ELLENBOROUGH, the Earl of Ro-
DEN, and the Marquis of BUTE.

VAN DIEMAN'S LAND.

*The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented a peti-
tion from the inhabitants of Van Dieman's Land, praying
that some controul might be allowed them over the reve-
nues. raised in that colony. It was a subject well worthy
the attention of their Lordships and of his Majesty's Minis-
ters. The petition was, however, withdrawn, for some in-
-formality.

The Earl of ABERDEEN wished to correct a mistake
which might lead to some misunderstanding on the subject of
Canada. He alluded to a statement made in the other House
of Parliament by the Under Secretary of the Colonies.
The subject under discussion referred to the Legislative
Council of Lower Canada, and it was stated in the public
journals that the Hon. Baronet to whom he alluded men-
tioned, in the course of his speech, that the instructions
given to Lord Gosford did not essentially differ from those
given to Lord Amherst-
without denying that the instructions generally were couched
in the same spirit, he felt bound to deny most strongly that
upon the question of the Legislative Council they were en-
tirely different.
Lord GLENELG was not aware what had taken place
last night upon that particular question. He scarcely
thought that his Hon. Friend the Under Secretary could
have said that upon the point of the Legislative Council
the Instructions were of the same nature ; upon that point
there was a clear distinction.
The Earl of WINCH ILSEA, in pursuance of the no-
tice he had before (-riven, now rose to present a petition
from
theF
h'. Leigh, jun.,ofH 'Eigst Sheriff of Wexford, after havingq complaining of being, removed
from l
been nominated to it approved of by the Lord Lieutenant.
The petition having been read, the Noble Earl said it
was with unfeigned regret, that from a sense of public
duty he was obliged to bring the case of the petitioner
before the House, It must be in their Lordships' recollec-
tion that he had brought the case before the House upon
two former occasions. He mentioned that
,new in order to
shew the Noble Earl whose conduct VIP cOTIVI4inpd
that he had not gone out of his way in order to seek the
present opportunity ; he bad received no satisfactory p4pja,
nation then, as the present notice of the case would not
have been brought on. He had given those opportunities
in order to see the Government state the public grounds
upon which such an outrage had been committed upon the
feelings of this gentleman, both public and private. The
petitioner stated that from some source be collected

tbat he had been removed on the ground of his being
as Orangeman,—( Hear, hear, hear,)—he complained
of that, for he most strongly denied that he belonged to
that society. If such were the grounds of his _ removal,
.and the Governors had founifout that they were in error,
they ought in justice to the gentlemen to have taken either
of the opportunities afforded them to have come forward and
heal his wounded feelings. On loooking at the returns
on the table he felt bound to call the .attention of
the House to the unparalleled manner in which the
Noble Earl at the head of the Irish Government had in-
terfered, most unconstitutionally, in the appointments of
sheriffs in that county. He bad deviated in the most un-
constitutional manner from the invariable rule practised by
his predecessors, viz., that of departing from the lists
which were sent in by the Judges of the county.
He could only state that he sincerely hoped the Noble Earl
would be able to give a satisfactory explanation of the
course he had thought proper to pursue, because he must
maintain if no satisfactory explanation took place that the
course that had been adopted by the Noble Earl was ono of
a most ungracious and he had almost said of unconstitu-
tional oharaoter,-•a(Hear.) He denied that it was in
the power of the Crown to make a selection for Sheriff
without reference to the Judges ; this was not his indivi-
dual opinion, but it had been decided iti many eases ; in one
with respect to Lincoln, a person who had heen appointed to
serve as Sheriff by the King refused to do so, and upon the
opinion of the Judges being taken, they were unanimously of
opinion that the King in appointing a person as Sheriff'
did an error,—(Hear.) It was true that since that
period that opinion had been differed from, because, in the
reign of Queen EliAabeth, when the Judges could not sit
In Westminster Hall in consequence of the plague, the
Queen nominated the Sheriffs herself. Unless, therefore,
the Noble Earl could set aside all that had hitherto taken
' place on the election of Sheriffs, he must say that in his
(114111 Wincbilsea's) opinion he had exercised a most
improper authority, especially when it was considered that
the five persons named by. the Noble Earl were the decided
supporters of his Majesty's present Government.—( Hear.)
He did Bat mean to enter ipto the consideration of
whether the Gentleman was a Member of the Orange
Society or not, and he did not deny the authority that
was vested in the Noble Earl, but he thought it was a
a very extraordinary step to take, that gentleman having
been once appointed to remove him from • an office, when
at that time he had not been declared by the Crown, or
any officer of the Crown to have been guilty of
any offence. This question was one of great constitutional
importance, and he hoped it would be in the Noble Earl's
power •to afford a satisfactory elucidation of the different
facts he had stated.
The Earl of MU LGRAVE would commence by return-
ing thanks to the Noble Earl! for the very courteous manner
in which he had brought the subject forward, The Noble
Earl's observations separated themselves into two heads, Ist.
with regard to the general lit of Sheriffs, and the selection
Made from it by the Lord Lieutenant, and secondly, with
regard to this particular case. He meant first of to say a few
words on the general head, and upon this he would commence
by stating that though the law was probably the same in
the two countries, nothing could more distinctly differ than
the practice of appointing the Sheriffs of London and Dub-
lin. The Sheriffs in :Ireland whre never appointed by any
meeting of the Judges, or any persons representing the exe-
cutive. The first name on the list was always taken. He
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 16.

MUNICIPAL CORPORATION (IRELAND)

BILL.

In section 65, relative to recorders,
Lord tYNDHURST said that in bringing up the re-
port he should introduce a provision for the purpose of giving
recorders to the cities of Belfast and Londonderry.
In clause 68,

The Duke of RICHMOND said that, on the third
reading, he should move the insertion of a clause to prevent
recorders from havinc, a seat in Parliament.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he should
support the Noble Duke's clause.
After a few other verbal amendments, the Bill passed
through Committee.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, in fixing the report
for to-morrow, and the third reading for Wednesday, said
that he should move the third reading exclusively for the
purpose of letting the other House of Parliament know bow
their Lordships had dealt with this Bill.
PLURALITIES OF BENEFICES BILL.

The Archbishop of CANTERBURY brought up the
report on this Bill, which, after a few observations from the
Bishop of Exeter, was agreed to and received.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY presented several
petitions from the West Riding of Yorkshire, praying for
the repeal of certain clauses in the Factories Bill.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, MAY 16.
TRINITY HARBOUR.

Sir E. CODRINGTON had attended the Committee
closely, and although he had no interest in the matter, he
was convinced that Leith was not the proper harbour, but
that Trinity was.
Sir GEORGE CLERK regretted that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer was not in his place, because it was clear
if the present Bill was to pass, and a harbour was
to he constructed, the Bill that the Right Hon.. Gentle-
man intended to propose would be of no use whatever.
He wished the Bill to be postponed for a. fortnight, not
with a view of defeating it ultimately; but in order
that there might be sufficient time for its consideration.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL merely wished to ob-
serve that notice had been given the earliest hour it was
possible to give it.
Mr. FRANCIS BARING denied that there had
been any unnecessary delay on the part of the
Government.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The. Government
had acted throughout in the most conciliatory spirit. and
it appeared to have produced good effects, as after much
consideration; the parties were &Oaring to adopt the re-
port of-his Right Hon. Friend. As the subject would soon
come under discussion, he ivould abstain from making any
further observations- upon it at present.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
The House then divided
:
Ayes , 168
Noes ... l5
Majority in favour of the motion —ls3
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

A Message from the House of Peers announced that
they had agreed to the Clyde Navigation Bill, and another
Bill. •

ABERDEEN SCHOOLS.

Mr. BANNERMAN wished to call the attention of the
House to the Report of the Committee on the Aberdeen
Schools Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped the House would
excuse him for trespassing on their time ; but as the
Representative of Aberdeen he felt it his duty to bring
the circumstances under consideration, and he was bound
to bring the verdict of the Jury, to whom the Bill
was referred, under the notice of the House—a verdict
which proved the vicious system of legislation which was
at present adopted in Committees on private Bills.
A discussion arose upon the second reading of the Bill,
and upon that occasion he distinctly stated he was happy
that his Hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen had op-
posed the principle, because the House would discuss its
merits on the ground of principle. The House did accord-
ingly discuss it on this ground ; and it approved the principle
of the Bill, by a majority of 46, leaving the clauses open to
be canvassed in Committee, and, of course, both the clauses
and principle open to discussion again on the third reading.
There was no disputed fact before the Committee, and upon
this point he would appeal to the Hon. Member for Har-
wich. When he ( Mr. Bannerman) spoke to that Hon.
Member on the subject, he had no objection to the
details of the Bill—he admitted the utility of the
schools—but he was opposed to the Bill—(Hear, hear)
on principle, because it contained a horrid appropriation
clause.—(A laugh.) No sooner was one agitator got rid
of than another started up from. Harwich, who also
had a tail—(A laugh)—and pounced unmercifully upon
the private affairs of the Bill.—(Much laughter.) It had
been rejected by a majority of twelve to eight, and the
people of Aberdeen were obliged to put up with that
decision. He would now call the attention • of the
House to some practices which in his opinion were very dis-
graceful to it. He alluded to the circumstance of Hon.
Members coming into Committees, and, without hearing
one syllable of the evidence, voting with the political party
to which they were attached.—(Loud cries of "
hear.") That system was well worthy the attention of
the House, and was most derogatory to its dignity. It
was a fact that the great majority of the Committee had
made up their minds before they heard the evidence at
A.—( Hear.) What he now asked of the House was
what no ordinary tribunal would refuse him, a new trial.—
(Hear, hear.) . He was aware that he might be told that
he had his remedy by his petition, but at present there
was no petition before it ; and as Chairman of the Com-
mittee, he bad been requested by the prorneters of the Bill
to ask at the hands of the House justice. The Commit-
tee had decided that the preamble had not been proved,
awl hp wqtlid almrtlY 049 to the 1-199 p that prearilhle
wag, and the ovi(idre 4-1114 gen s4pnited.
The liononrable Member then read the preamble of
the and also the evidence, which he said hp wetyld
lay before any lawyer's apprentice, who, he had
no hesitation m saying, would pronounce that the
preamble had been proved. He should therefore move
that the Bill should be re-committed, and that the Commit-
tee should be instructed to re-consider its prayer.
Mr. FERGUSSON, in seconding the motion of the

Hon. Member, confessed himself as much surprised as he
was in the decision come to by the Committee.
Ciptain. GORDON thought the course pursued by the
Hon. Member opposite was most extraordinary and unpre-
cedented. If the Hon. Member, had any personal complaint
to make of any Member of the Committee, he might do so by
an Appeal Committee, but he must say that the course
pursued by the Honourable Member was most un-
precedented. His Honourable Friend was perfectly
right in stating that he (Captain- Gordon) opposed
the Bill on principle ; and because he did so, and it was carried
against him on the second reading, was that any reason why
he should not oppose it in Committee ? The evidence was
before the House, which, lie contended, fully bore out the
Committee in the course they had adopted.
Mr. POULTER, tho Ugh he thought the motion extra-
ordinary, thought that it was occasioned by circumstances
much more so. The Committee had overturned a solemn
principle established upon the second reading of the Bill
Although the • House of Commons had laid down a prin-
ciple, the Committee had thought proper to act in contra-
vention of that principle ; and in doing so he would say they
had exercised a most unwarrantable discretion.
Sir GEORGE CLARK said this certainly was a most
extraordinary motion, but it was not without precedent,
because a similar one had been made in a Railway ease
a few evenings ago ; but the Honourable Member, from
whom it emanated withdrew it from the feeling which
pervaded the House, and be was not allowed to do so
except upon the implied .understanding that it was not to
be brought forward again. Now what was the objection to
the decision of the Committee ? Why, this—that they
voted upon principle. He (Sir G. Clerk) admitted that lie
voted upon principle, and in doing so he maintained he acted
in conformity with the regulations of the Hotise. There
were a hundred other objects to which it would be more
desirable to appropriate this fund, if any deviation from the
.original object was to be sanctioned. There was no doubt
but the schools could be supported by private subscriptions,
and if so the Committee would not be justified in sanction-
ing such an application.
Mr. BANNERMAN did not intend to accuse the
members of the Committee with any improper motives.
He only charged them with having acted under an error of
judgment. With reference to the reasons put forward on
behalf of the majority, that they disapproved of the prin-
ciple of the measure, he would only remark that in this
they undertook to set aside the decision of the House.
The SPEAKER said in his opinion there was no reason
why the motion might not be made. Upon its expediency
or inexpediency the House would judge; but according to
the forms of Parliament it was quite competent for
any Hon. Gentleman to make such a proposition -as was now
under cOsideration.
A..LEFROY—As a Meth of the Committee
was guided in coming to a deeislon, by what it appea.zed to
him to be the will of the testator ; and seeing that it was
manifestly Dot his intention to have the. funds diverted
to any such objects as those contemplated by the Bill, he
felt bound to vote against the Bill,
• Sir ANDREW L. HAY objected to the proceedings
of the Committee, and trusted that the House would
consent to the re-appointment of a Committee.
Captain WEMYSS supported the motion.
_ _ _

Mr. PRINGLE defied any man to come to any other
determination upon the evidence than that which had been
come to by the majority of the Committed.
After a few words from Mr, GLADSTONE, which
were inaudible from the loud odes of " Question" with which
he was met,
Mr. BONHAM would observe that, so far as the state-
mont of the Hon. Gentleman wont, with regard to the con-
versation he had had with him, it was substantially correct.
He did state, that he considered it a public Bill of great
importance—involving a very important and dangerous
principle, which had been for the last two years strongly
contested in,that House—the principle of appropriation ; and
although he went determined to hear the evidence, he went
also strongly opposed to the principle of appropriation,
Mr. FOX MAULE rose amid cries of " Qumtion,
question.." It was quite true that as a Member of the
Government be camp down late in the discussion in 'the
Committee, but, at the same time, he came down with
a full possession of all the facts of the case. The reason
of his being detained was, he could assure the House, his
attention to business that could not be delayed.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
There appeared for the
Originalmotioni l5B

Against it
Majority for the re-committal of the Bill ---51
The Bill was then sent back, for reconsideration, to the
special Committee.
On our return to the gallery, •
Sir R. PEEL gave notice of a motion for some returns
connected with the Irish Church Establishment, the object
of which we could not distinctly bear.
Mr. PEMBERTON wished to call the attention of the
Noble Lord opposite to the delay of busineis in the Court
of Chancery, and the great inconvenience which occurred to
suitors and Counsel in consequence of the suspension of the
ordinary course of proceedings. He begged to know how
soon the public might, expect to see business again regu-
larly proceeded with in that Court ?
Lord J. RUSSELL, who spoke in a low tone, was under-
stood to say that the delay arose from the contemplated
legislative changes in the Court of Chancery, and that the
Lord Chancellor was at present giving his best considera-
tion to the question how the measures to be adopted could
be best made available 'to the various wants of the suitors
and the interests of justice before they wore finally decided
on and brought into active operation.
Lord EBRINGTON wished to know what arrange-
ment had been made for bringing forward the Registration
of Voters Bill, and what night the House might expect to
have it before them ?

, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the arrange•
ments were all but completed, so that he expected it might
be before the House to-morrow at five o'clock. After
some further observations as to the probable interposition of
other business which would take precedence, the Hon.
Gentleman stated that it would most probably be brought
forward on Friday next.

Mr. MACLgAN inquired when the Abolition of Im-
prisonment for Debt Bill would be proceeded with by the
Hon. Gentleman ?

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had done his part
with that Bill, and it had been for some time before the
Lord Chancellor. He could not account for the delay that
had taken place.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Lord J. RUSSELL then moved that the House do
resolve itself into a Committee of Supply.
Sir R. PEEL asked the Noble Lord if he meant to
proceed to-night with the usual business of supply ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that his object was
merely to go into Committee formally, for the purpose of
giving the Hon. Member for Bath an opportunity of
proceeding with his motion on the state of the Canadas.
Mr. ROBINSON inquired when the Hon. Chancellor
of the Exchequer intended to go into Committee on the
Stamp Duties Bill ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not.
intend committing that Bill until Friday, and then only
going into it pro from, as he wished to allow the public an
opportunity of judging of the details of the measure during
the recess, and of suggesting any alterations that might be
deemed advisable.

Mr. WASON wished to know what progress was likely
to be made with the Irish Municipal Corporations Bill ?

After a pause,
Mr. GOULBURN wished to know if the Chancellor
of the Exchequer intended to make any material altera-
tions in the Stamp Duties Bill ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER coq.
templated no material alterations, but he thought it proba-
ble that he might be induced to make some slight modifica-
tions in the duties, but nothing that would affect the more
mportant ones. He did not think there would be any ne-
cessity to make any increase, but he had received valuable
suggestions from several quarters, and expected more when
the Bill was brought forward in Committee. He thought
therefore the delay he proposed would enable them to make
the measure much more acceptable and efficacious.
Sir R. PEEL was understood to ask when the business
of supply would be proceeded with ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was not intended to
enter into the supplies till after the holidays, but he hoped,
the House would be able to go into that Committee the
first day after. He should, therefore, be prepared to more
the supplies on the 30th inst. As to the Irish Corporation
Bill, it was before the other Houae„ and its progress would
depend on the reception it might meet with there.
Sir R. PEEL expressed his surprise at the extraordinary
dttration of the holidays at this period of the session, for
which he could not conceive any adequate reason.
The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
GOVERNMENT OF THE CANADAS.

Mr. ROEBUCK rose to ove,;That the House re-
solve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to take
into consideration such parts of 31 Geo. 111., c. 31, as re-
lates to the Executive and Legislative Councils of the Ca-
nadas, for the purpose of rendering the same efficient to, 1,10
jokktarble voice to
good government of those provinces." The 11.5).1.V. gentle-.
man proceeded in a very low and aloio4
complaining of tit®
read a petition from certilillrilkaAst
chhieir. a faits, and praying reclrega, 1-143
tlAq 4gOaTesi that the °Mao of his motion rues not to inl.
pitegn particular men, but the system of colonial legislation,
aq which they acted, One of the means by which he pro-
posed to effect permanent benefit in the condition of these
colonies was to do away with the Legislative Council, which
stood in the way of all improvement. Notwithstanding the
analogy which had been set up for its protection, he contended
that it bore no resemblance to our House of Lords in any
essential point. It had among its Members no men of
great landed possessions, of high moral influence in society,"

--
or enjoying any political consequsnce in the eves of large
.
owers
bodies of the people. They v. ere los the most
politicians of a particular clique, who turned t i
conferred on them to their own purposes, and againstlto the
the
interests of the people. He was decidedly opposecv,e
exercise of the irresponsible powers and exclusive 11, gicie
of the House of Lords as upheld in this country, Irle..n.
hoped one day to see them abolished, yet he would
_die
dilly say that he was aware they had a large body of Pelt.
in their favour, and had men ofgreat moral influence amongst
them—individuals possessed of considerable wealth
these
part t:sidints
landed property ; and that the whole assembly, from .
combined causes, naturally enjoyed a considerable
of political prover, and exercised an inevitable influence in
the Government of the British empire. The Legislative
The House
Council of Canada was a very different hod.
of Assembly also was for its ware so unlike the House
.001
.Commons in the exercise of its functions, that from 1791
1810, it was not allowed to pay its own expenditure: and
_
when in the latter year that House asked perunssios. of the
Governor to do so, he imprisoned three persons for making
the demand.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The object of this
portion
severe proceeding was to repress any measures on the
part of the Assembly to get their money matters into their.'l
own hands, to obtain any control over the
servants of the colony, or to make them responsibli for
the effective discharge of their duties. Proceedie, in this
policy the Governor and Legislative Council soled thel
House of Assembly for a grant of a whole swat to paY at
the civil list in perpetuity. This was refused. They tl!ell
demanded that the civil list charge should be made perm°.
nent for the King's life, as it was in England at the begin-
ning of a reign. This was also refused by the Assemh:Y,
as it would thereby have thrown away all the analog"'
control and responsibility existing here. The King their
stepped in, and asked the House of Assembly (in rets.rn
for certain concessions promised the colony,) to pay psrria-
nently the Judges, the Governor, and the Civil Secretary
similar unlucky demand was made to the American
loniss by Lord North, and successfully resisted by them'
but the people of Canada yielded. They 'snade perpermanentprovision for the Judges, but the Britis:a Legislature had
never fulfilled its part of the engarors.
Jent specified in the
lst and 2d of William the Fousetl, It was of the utmost
consequence that the Judges
should be responsible for
their conduct. .One was o notorious drunkard, and Yet
there existed no
rae3P:s of getting rid of him since the
permanent grail:lla°. been made.(Hear, hear.) As for
the Legislative Council, it was chiefly composed of Pe-
culatara. Pse could state facts relative to certain indisi-
deals of it, which deserved the name of sheer swindling and
nothie else. The
people of Lower Canada demanded
that, there should be an elective Legislative Council and a
responsible Executive Council ; the people of Upper Canal'`
made the same demand. That they were determined t°
Abide by this demand was proved by their voting the slip,
plies for six months only, and in many respects the people
of Upper Canada had followed their example. The 1-113'1.
Gentleman then proceeded to complain of the conduct °1
the Commission which was sent out, with Lord Gosfordat
its head, which Commission be accused of temporising with
the Canadians, and of exciting false hopes in them fot the
purpose of procuring a graut of the arrears of supPb'
Another proposition was made by the Noble Lord opP°-
site, the Secretary for the Colonies, on the repeal of the
law which 'made it necessary to obtain a vote of the HO°
o!' Assembly at all. But was the Government prepared to
tell the people of Canada that they were unfit to govern'
themselves, and that, whilst the people of the Unite
States, residing on the other side of an imaginary boundarf'
were entrusted with the management of their own affairs'
from them all confidence was to be withdrawn ? And boo/
long did they think the Radical dominion would last io
Canada after an act of this kind ? Just so long as they e°°lu
hold possession of the colony by military force, and no longer'
He called on tie House, then, to assent to the proposition,
and to yield to the just claims of the Canadians. He knew it
was said, "Oh! it would be concession--it would be re-
volution—to do so." But there was a point in the matter
which parties who made these exclamations did not ecati
skier. They seemed to treat the Legislative Council °
the Canadas as the representatives of the aristocracy there,
But there was no aristocracy in Canada as in England'
The English aristocracy was the growth of ages ; not s°
in Canada. You could not grow an aristocracy as PI
would mushrooms. But then another objection was, th l
in Lower Canada t'nere were two sets of people, of
dif-
ferent origin, one French and the other English, and tbs
the preservation of the Legislative Council in its preSe"
form was necessary to prevent the French party from nve'l'
bearing the English. In Lower Canada it seemed asere
were 134,000 persons who spoke the English language., and
374,932 who spoke the French language--about thr:
pro-
portion of three to one. Out of eighty-eight mesnbers in
the House of Assembly, sixty-four were of -Freud' origin'
and the rest of English, being as nearly as
possible in the
same proportion,. And to prove still more that it was not a
question of origin, the same dispute, lie it observed, ex-
fisted in Upper Canada, where that rearson could not possibly
be applied to it.
Sir G. GREY praised, with some exceptions, the temper
of the speech of the Hon. Member for Bath ; but though ,he
agreed with him in the end which he proposed—though ase
joined with him in deprecating the evils to which he ha'
alluded, yet he could not concur with him that the remelt
which he proposed was one that, under present circuit':
stances, could be safely adopted. At the same time h°
wished it to be distinctly understood that his Majesty's Go'
vernment were most desirouS of giving to the Canadianst
greatest degree of self-government which was consistent ,
with their dependence on the British Crown. It WB5 U.-,
der these circumstances that his Majesty appointed a e°lll
mission to proceed, to Canada. The Commissioners were
not empowered to act as the Hon. Member had state
they were, but only to observe, inquire, and report, and tb
001.
instructions laid on the table as given to Lord G°'f
would show that they in no respect differed from those P'er,
viously given to Lord Amherst. The high opinion e°l,-by
tamed in Canada of Lord Gosford might be judged eGsas
the fact that even the petition presented by the Hors• bora
tleman did not, in any way, impugn the conduct et. the
Gosford. The commissioners were now engaged ill the
inquiry for which they had been, appointed, and yetvesa
lion. Member would wish the House to step in bet!
the
the inquiry and report, by taking the question out ot rst
hands of the commissioners. The commission, aw°ll,ej,
other points to which their attention was to be dire'tisct
were to inquire into the constitution of the Lerlooa
Council, and include the result in their report. As ,d se
as that report should be received, this part of it shot' at.
brought under the attentive deliberation of the Governalrem
The constitution formed for Canada in 1791 was tntehere
an experiment, and it was impossible to deny thajt.d aot
might not be a necessity for some alterations. lie u; 'wive
deprecate a change in the constitution of the Leg'! tar
Council, provided that change was not of an orga:;''ewish
turn ; but he was not disposed to outrun the pubi.c that
and opinion upon such a change. He would not deg that
if the majority of the inhabitants wished for a chauge'witli
change ought to be made, so far as it was consistent
public advantage and safety. He had no reason to thing
that there was any settled wish in Canada for a change:
(Hear, hear, hear.) The first petition present.: of
Parliament, asking for any -change in the constitution Aloe
the Legislative Council, was in 1832, and coal.!
Government be fairly charged with delay, seeing that. tn._ the
the present commission was appointed to inquire ijea,
grounds upon which a change was called for ? The y
Member hiinself who had brought forward the presentis ins,
tion wrote a letter to the Home of Assembly, in May' 18i
in which he denounced the very course he was now l'ur'e
as a delusion, for that nothing short of a democratic
orzia,
stitution and Government would suit Canada. 10. orp,
then, to this fact, and to the instruction which the (-J.° ja-
merit had given to the Commission to enter upon 3 PP
the
:
quiry, he could see no ground for the interferesicefett to
Hon. Member on the present occasion. With "sP silent
the money appropriated by Lord Gosford to the PaY,seti,
of the salaries of the Government officers, surely the
had be
Member must be aware that that was money that_lroosa or
long since voted for the public service
been ape la
Assembly for the very purpose to which it had wou
In the appropriation of this money the Government he
tO t"-
be ready, at a proper time, to appeal with confidence'
NJ, t°
House for its approval the course they had ad
t°oP.vhicin
pay the official servants of the Crown the salaries
__`,edly
• had rePea'
they were entitled.—(Hear.) The supplies ,
haee '-
been refused, and it was absolutely necessary to t of 6.
by the 11
course to the Treasury funds to pay the Govern: a."
itself.
tors, and maintain the good faith of the Governio crimaJority
He was fully convinced of the loyalty of the great
and o°'
of the people. They loved British institutions!. ares
vernment would not shrink from the proposal 01 f all
which they might think conducive to the interest v
parties
iNiember 11):
Mr. ROBINSON believed that the Flom
Bath had no intenticn of pressine. his It wa,.sa;
, ward "'P
oore
most extraordinary proposition to be brougot or
Was
an inquiry was pending. The Hon. Member,o_. maw
moderate khan usual. He must deny that the_arin Jo. gee
b.fa vepresented the population of Lower U
party' e!'
certainly represented 111 r. Papineau and his
npada but,vaina
toff
were at least 150,000 British in Lower
oantentied' that
did not represent. He (Mr. Robinson) etc)
ewer two..
motion.
, no elective Legislative Council was giveneen 1-4°
the two bei°o to
there was an end to the connection bet:
Mr. F was fravcatra-sbitig
tries, It was true, indeed, that
analogous to the House of Lords here shionlativaeuvcogaffr
it. He did not mean to say that
thels'ecition ; but, oohs,
such an, Assembly, but then he required' th.a.t
_afete-pacn_Y
as now constituted, was free from
obajnkruPts' and
s its
Wetly mos
was to Prey° This
like characters, there werQ
from being principally compo&aollf
it. One part of Nis., laspineau's syskel coada• „og;
settlement of alk British subjects,. Lowerlaterest of the Can- •
okieet thin was to prevent ;be •
t respectable mene

from being borne down. He did not blame them for en-
geavouring to maintain their own nationality, and their own
interests ; but, having conquered that colony, were the
People
of Great Britain to deal with it only in reference
the Canadian people and their interests ? Why call
themselves exclusively Canadians, as if they wished to
considered a distinct people? They now enjoyed
F greater advantages than they could enjoy if they
formed a branch of the United States of America.
Let this country redress their grievances, but never
Yield to menace. The Honourable ,Gentleman the Se-
cretary for the Colonies seemed to have left it a matter
0. f doubt whether or not the Government of this country
was prepared at some future time to concur in organic
Changes in the constitution of Canada. It was not quite
fair to leave so important a point in any doubt. He did
not mean to say that Government intended to deceive the
People of Canada, but they had a right to know whether
the instructions of Lord Gosford had any reference to the
Question of an elective Council. The Canadians claimed
something still more important than an elective Council.
TLey claimed the disposal of all money arising from the
Pale of waste lands.

N.lr. HUME was happy to hear the Secretary for the
Colonies say that it was the wish of the Government to re-
dress grievances, and to give the Canadians as much of selr-
)vernment as was consistent with the relative situation of
toth countries. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rohinson)spoke
of nl Papineau and his friends, but who were his friends ?
yhy, they formed three-fourths of the population. He was
in Canado what Mr. O'Connell was in Ireland. The people
were his Mends, because they saw that he was zealous in
support of their interests, and that be exerted himself to
redress their grievances. It was for that reason they
Plaecd confidence in him, and elected him Speaker of
their Assembly again and again. His Hon. Friend
the Member for Bath did not overlook, as he was
charged with doing, the British settlers in the courser of his
,21,Peech. On the contrary, he began with them. He said
L°°3' were the minority, and being so, must, as was the
case :n that House, and every where else, being the mino-
rity, be governed by the majority. There were eleven
voted with Mr., Papineau out of 24. The Hon. Member
(Mr. Robinson) scouted the idea of an elective Le-
gislative Council as inconsistent with the Constitution of
;791, and said the Canadians wanted no such thing. Now,
be held in his hand resolutions agreed to on the 25th De-
cember, 1835, which declared that Mr. Roebuck was au-
thorised by the people of Canada to declare that they
Wanted an elective Assembly, with controul over the
Whole public revenue. They claimed the same controul
over the public money and over the produce of the sale of.
Public lands as was exercised by that House. Having
been so long disappointed, they had now for four years
taken their stand, and were determined to have justice
done them before they voted any money. The conse-
quence wes that Lord Aylmer for two years was obliged
to Pay the civil officers of Canada out of the military
chest. The people acted with great forbearance. The
consequence of tt.,,e dispute was that the people of this
,eountry would have to pay the 29,0001. thus disposed of
°Y Lord Aylmer. The Colonial Minister had nu right to
act in such a manner. He was surprised that Lord Gos-
ford had yet made no report, nearly a year having elapsed
ai,nce his appointment. Tiore were serious dissensions
also in Upper Canada. Government ought to submit to
Parliament their final determination, and not shut their
*Yes any longer to the dangers which threatened them
from these colonies. If his Hon. Friend pressed the mo-
tion he would vote with him, but, taking all the circum-
stances into consideration, and after the pledges that were
given by the Secretary for the Colonies, perhaps the best
course would be to withdraw the motion.

Mr. ROEBUCK, in reply, said the Government was
Pursuing a wrong course as regarded Canada. There was
nciprovision made for the Judges. It was, indeed, perma-
nently levied, but it was not permanently applied. No
Than wished more for conciliation than he did, but certain
be was. that if the Government touched one halfpenny of
the moo 'y all hope of conciliation would be at an end. The
Hon. Member (Mr. Robinson) said that the Canadians
were oppos•ed to the settlement of British emigrants in Ca.
nada. He did not know from what source the Hon.
Member had his information, but it was false. He trusted
the Hon. Gentler: an would state upon what grounds he
made such an assertiem. He did not know why he should
be taunted as the hired advocate of Canada. He never
asked for the appointment. It was the voluntary offer of
four hundred thousand of the people of Canada. They
bad nothing new from Government but promises. He was
willing, however, to withdraw the motion now, in the hope
that these promises would be fulfilled.
Mr. ROBINSON said his authority for the assertion he
Made was the address of the House of Assembly to Lord
Gosford, calling upon him to withhold the grant of patents
to the British American Land Company. •
Sir J. HANMER felt interested in maintaining the dig-
"ltY and the independence of a British House of Commons.
11x,e would appeal to the House wl:ether it was right that a
rl6etnber should accept money for the discharge of any duty
bright undertake as a Member of ParEament ?—( Hear.)
It a• as as contrary to the usages of the good old times. Sir
j
Ain Trevor was expelled that House for accepting from
the city of London a sum of 1,0001. to support a Bill in
7,144. the citizens were interested. It was an ancestor of
1
'Hs who then filled the chair, and he had therefore some
excuse for manifesting this jealousy of their honour and
Mr. WARBURTON said this subject ought to be
brought forward as a distinct motion. It would be found
that there were numerous instances in which Members of
'. at House received pay as agents there for] foreign
colonies.
Mr. ROEBUCK was prepared now with". cases. A
etnntnittee of that House was appointed to inquire into the
ase of Mr. Nuskisson, who, while a Member of that
•klouse, received -I.‘ay as agent for the island of Ceylon.
,phe committee dect:ded that he was justified in doing so.
He might also refer to the case of Mr. Courtenay.
Sir ROBERT PEEL--It is not my intention, Sir, to
esist the withdrawal of this 'notion, for I think the Hon.
Member has acted wisely in resolving to do so. But I
think he lfls done so in a manner calculated to excite ex-
etations in the minds of the people of Canada which are
almost sure to be disappointed, and which, if not counter-
set edt will leave the Government in a worse situation than
t,
at in which they now are. The Hon. Gentleman has
jnnglit forward his motion, not on the state of Canada.
the immediate question was, was it prudent, was it in
feint of fact politic, to substitute an effective Legislative
Council, or rather. an elective Legislative Council, for the
leegislative Council appointed by the Crown ? That was
question with which I thought we would have to deal,
krd that was the proposition which I had orne down to
li egAtive by my vote.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentle-
'kin, however, has withdrawn his motion, no doubt in eon-
se
(Inenee of the speech of the Hon. Bare net (Sir George
kts.,
fp 's') opposite, and on the ground that it may be presumed
that speech that expectations are held out that a
material elvinge is intended at no distant period to be
nected in the government of those colonies, and that the
Subject of tit:A change now actually occupies the eonside-
r
tatinn of his Majesty's Government. That, Sir, is obvi-
i‘u,t'lY the understanding upon which the motion of the Hon.
'ember for Bath is withdrawn, and that is the inference
which others, as well as tue Hon. Gentleman, will draw
(it) what has fallen from the Hon. Baronet opposite,—
est', hear.) I beg, Sir, for myself to say, lest any mis-
:nnstruction should arise from my silence, that I, for one,
tiTnot a partrto any such arrangement—(Cheers)—and
as I said before, looking at the view on the subject
entertained by the Hon. Member for Bath, in consequence
t'tf the speech of the Hon. Baronet opposite, I do not think
i
prudent course for the Legislature of this country to
Isue to leave a matter of this kind in doubt, or rather, by
1 111
ering the withdrawal of the motion, to raise an expeeta-
rel. (which it is not the intention of the Government to
ti`ntse) in the minds of the Canadian people that this ques-
-0o is at present undergoing consideration on the part of
lajesty's Ministers.
ti Lord J. RUSSELL (as we understood)—Nothing of
1 kind has been stated.
the
It. PEEL—The Noble Lord denies that anything of
kinci has been stated. Why, Sir, it is stated in the in-
struct.
-th ions sent out by Lord Glenelg to Lord Gosford and
eco • .
en, , Inmissioners appointed to inquire into the grievances
ti of in the Canadas.—(Cheers.) Lord Glenelg
un-
willing
delivers it as his opinion that " the King is most un-
eneing a to admit .as open to debate the question, whether
th.. the vital peineiples of the provincial Government
A'ei. undergo altereion." A vital principle, mark, the
nie Lord calls it, and then he goes on further, and
teB that " The solemn pledges so repeatedly given for
.
gee maintenance of that system, and every just prepos-
-Bs,
oke's derived from constitutional usage and analogy, are
to posed to such innovations. and might almost seem
1 ,"
...inde the discussion of them." Now it would be
tjfor any one to express a stronger opinion than
• t bow is this opinion followed up in the instruations?
th e
.',1•4.• Is said, " But his Majesty cannot forget that it is
• these right of all his subjects to prefer to him, as King
aappoe e ret'lms, their petitions for the redress of any real or
tight isned grioNances. iris Majesty especially recoentses this
tei-)res those who are thercselves called to the highl office of
11,, a tinting- a huge and most important class of
.his people.
01l nowledgmentof that riyht appears to tli,2ls.ing to imply
the b7AP part the correspotoliPg duty of invegizoting
the of every such compkiet, His Majesty,
"en e' tiro not abst;lutely close the aysseee. to inquiry,
that in quesi3on respecting which he is bound to 4aelare
• do4e, can for the present pereeive no reasonable ground
le4te stietb• His Mt ;sty will not refuse to those who advo-
11'0 extensivWaLerations, an opportunity of proving
4eney has
of the grievances to which so much promi-
gteat as been given.." the House must observe the
im Portaoce of settlios this question, not only with