The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-01 00:00:00

willing, to perform their promise.—(Hear, hear.) With works connected with the steam navy in progress at
respect to establishing a steam-factory at Cork, he could Woolwich and Portsmouth, would have hesitated to
only say the project had been stopped there as well as commence far more costly ones at Keyham ithouteinore-
in other places, from the general curtailment of expendi- information, and would perhaps have referred throes-
tore, which had been as strictly enforced in England as tion to a Select Committee ; and if the Co Mee
in Ireland. had been like the Navy Committee of last y
.the _
Mr. J. O'CONNELL thought it a great hardship that works at yliern would never have bee -6mie
•
Ireland should have only one dockyard, while England mended,for the Navy Committee had stated dr
had ten or eleven. report that if those works had not been Attad4sh-, •Ne ; •
Admiral BOWLES expressed his opinion that some menced, they would have had no hesitation i c= `t.=
of the large grants made to Ireland should have. been commending Parliament to withhold its sanction fro :;;;,-
employsd in such reproductive works as the erection of them. There was no doubt that great blunders had beets-`
a steam-factory at Cove. He hoped the Government committed with regard to these works. First, they were
would not listen to the advice of those who would reduce on the lee shore instead of being on the weather shore,
the navy to a state of degradation. Ile did not think and therefore exposed to the prevailing winds. It was,
they could reduce the navy lower than it was at however, a strange fact that it was the suaimers,ebitehar)all-7or
present. Recollecting how, in 1846, the United dockyards.—(Hear, hear.) Secondly, there was not a
States had attempted to seize the Oregon ter- sufficient depth of water at Keyham—(ea
ritory ; how, iu 1847, they had attacked Mex- that the largest class of steamers would only be able to
ice ; how, at the present moment, all Europe enter the basins at spring tides. To remedy this defect
was torn by foreign and intestine warfare, he could see it was proposed to cut a channel through the mud and
no ground on which they would be justified in reducing to endeavour to keep it open by constant dredging.
the navy, or in dispensing with the services of that small Thirdly, the entrances to the basins being at right angles
f.,ree which they now kept in a state of efficiency. to the current of the stream, large steamers would run
Neither had any new circumstances arisen to lessen the the risk of considerable damage in entering, unless they
nec.:siity for precaution. They had a powerful neigh- entered at the top of the tide, at slack water. Fourthly,
hour which maintained strong naval and military esta- the basins were extravagantly large; the two would
t,lishments, and which might turn upon this country cover sixteen acres, and would easily contain be-
with much more facility than at any former period. tween fifty and sixty steamers of the largest size.
P, rhaps it was an old-fashioned idea of his to prefer ex• But what possible use could there be for such
perience to theory. Bat it was imagined that the time enormous basins when there was 'such a harbour as the
was at hand when warfare would case, and armaments !feminize ut hand ?—(Hear, hear.) Fifthly, the works
might be dispeneed with. Those who took a prominent were prematurely undertaken. In 1844 works connected
and active part in urging reduc:ioni might have been with the steam navy were in progress at Woolwich and
expected to inculcate those great Christian principles of Portsmouth ; Parliament, as usual, Lad been misin-
charity, love, and forbearance, by the difrusi,‘n of which formed that they would be completed for 100,000/.
alone that happy change could be effected.—(Hear, Since then about 400,0001. had been expended there.
hear.) lie regretted to say ho saw nothing Now, the AdmirtLy should have waited until those
of the sort. He thought those gentlemen were works had been completed, and then, it experience had
as pugnacious politicians as he had seen in the proved their expediency, works of a similar character
course of a long experience. He was reminded of the might have been constructed at Devonport for about a
fable of the sheep, the wolves, and the dogs. Ile pre- third of what Keyham would cost. Sixthly, all these
fcrred the dogs to the wolves. The attempt was made works had been undertaken, partly in consequence of
to undermine these great safeguards of the country a most ludicrous miscalculation of pecuniary benefits
which those who had engaged in it would not venture to to be derived from them. It had been calculated that
take openly. They disparaged the management and by means of these works steam-vessels could be re-
sneered at the efficiency cf the naval establishments. paired for about 25 per cent. cheaper than by con-
lie could not forbear noticing the unbusinesslike way in tract. From this calculation the cost of the works, and
which discussions were commenced. No inquiry was of keeping them in repair, had been omitted. Now,
made as to the establishments of other maritime nations. it wool.! be easy to show that the' interest of the
Daring the inquiry of lest year not a question was asked money expended, and the cost of keeping the works
tending to elicit information on that point. France had in repair, would be nearly equal to the whole cost of
40 sail of the line, 60 frigates, and a large steam navy; repairing the steam navy by contract.—(Rear, hear.)
Russia had about 55 sail of the line, a smaller number It was evident that these works had been begun in the
of frigates, a steam navy considerably iucreas- most thoughtless, reckless, and unbusicess-like manner.
hag; and America 12 sale of the line, 14 frigates, They were, however, but a specimen of a system which
arid an increasing steam navy. In 1793 this country had been pursued for years both by the Admiralty and
had 78 sail of the line in commission, and in 1795 the Ordnance. ffe thought it was worthy of considerae
upwards of 90. At a later period of the war this country tion whether there should not be a board of public
had to contend with France, Spain, Holland, with two works, to which all plans and estimates, both of new
northern coalitions, and finally with the United States, works and of alterations of old works, should be sub-
What would have been their situation had they been, a mitred ; which board should bo responsible to Perna-
fe,v years before those contests, in :the, hands of the rnent for the accuracy of both plans and estimates ; and
financial reformers? The reduction of the navy by _without the fuel report of which board as to the nature
3,000 men involved the breaking up of the squadron and intended cast of a work no estimate should bo pre-
fitted out in 1845, and which, nu doubt, had acted as a sented to Parliament. If there had been such a rule in
check on the American Government. With respect to 1844 Parliament would not, by voting 30,000/. on an
the ships which were said to have never been at sea, the estimate of 400,0001., have pledged itself to works cost-
reason was, that providentially this country had not been ing 1,300,0001 Ile thought, With respect to these works
at war. Some of the old vessels were en' inferior qua- at Keyham, that the wisest plan would bo to stop them,
lity, and it was better to go on building new vessels than and to pay a forfeit to the contractor, for by doing so
expending an equal sum of money in repairing the old there would probably be a saving of 700,000/. He,
ones. While other navies were increasing, the navy of therefore, moved that the amount of the vote be re-
Great Britain was diminishing; and he therefore en- duced by 120,000/,
treated the House not to sutler the revolution which ells Mr. CORRY sail that, as he was in office at the Al-
urged in the system to proceed further, but rather to miralty when the works at Keyham were undertaken, he
persevere in the measures undertaken by the Right Hon. was enabled to afford the House some information en the
Member for Tamworth, to supply the deficiencies of subject. The Hon. Baronet had proposed in the Com-
the navy, and especially to increase the steam navy and mittee on the Navy Estimates that a stop should be put
put the dockyards on a better footing; while, at the to these wet ks, but his proposition was only supported
same time, the education of that rising generation cf by another Hon. Gentleman besides himself; and he (Mr.
officers should not be neglected, on whose skill the Curry) therefore hoped that the Committee of the House
country must rely for defence in all future emergenc'es. earth! support the Committee upstairs in their decision,
Mr. HENLEY thought the Government placed in a by rejecting the Hon. Baronet's amendment. The lion.
difficult position. On the one hand, the country was Baronet had said on a former occasion that the Admi-
calling out for reduction, while there were two parties ralty, under the pretext of making economical repairs,
in that House who took a different course. The Irish were squandering large sums upon then orks of Keyham.
Members called for new establishments, for no other Now, tnose works were undertaken solely in order to
purpose apparently but to have money spent in Cork.— maintain the efficiency of the steam navy, which in case
(Clear, hear.) However anxious they all were to eus- of war was essential to the safety of the country. It must
fain the honour and dignity of the country, they wire be obvious to every one ecquaiutt d with naval affairs,
agreed in thinking that their establishments should be that if there were any part of the coast where it was
kept up as economically as possible. The multiplicity essential to have a harbour of refuge and means of re-
ef their establishments very much increased the expense. pair for steam-ships, that place wasDevonport. As the
He was one of those who thought there were too many greater part of our naval force would be required in the
of those establishments already; if they had fewer, the event of war for protecting the coast of Ireland, or for
wor k would be better done, and the cost would be less. blockading the western coast of France, Devonport was
There was nothing to show that the navy was neglected. the best point at which provision could be made for its
In 1543 the number of men was very much the same as repair, and that port was also easy of access to ships
at this moment. The number of men might fairly be coming from any foreign station, except from the North
taken to test the other items of expenditure. The Go- Sea and the Baltic. lie admitted the Committee had
vernment were most fit to determine what should be the expressed their opinion that if the works at Keyham had
number of men. But at the present day more was had not been commenced they would not have recom-
paid for stores and dockyards than in 1843. He wished mended that they should be undertaken; but, with all de.
the Government had been able to make a greater reduc- ference to the Committee, he would rather rely on the
thin. The expenses of the dockyards were higher than opinion of gentlemen who had much more acquaintance
they ought to be. Reduction might be carried to a much with matters of this kind than the Members of that
further extent; but it was for the public interest that the Committee could Feasibly possess. Mr. Ward, nearly
service should ho maintained in as efficient a state and at all the Naval Lords of the Admiralty, the late Lord
as moderate a cost as possible. Auckland, Admiral Bowles, Mr. S. Herbert, many
Admiral DUNDAS reminded the Hon. Gentleman engineers, and, indeed, all the witnesses examined
that the estimates for the present year included items before the Committee, with only one exception,
which were not included in the expenditure of former ho believed, had urged the necessity of este-
) wers, blishing extensive works for the repair of steam ma-
Mr. HENLEY had taken care in his comparison to chinery and steam-ships at Devonport. It had been said
omit those items which related to the victualling yards that the works might have been commenced on a small
and the steam navy. seal n but he considered that there could be no worse
Mr. CORRY said that from 1813 to 1827 the average economy than to commence important works of this kind
yearly amount of the navy estimates was 6,141,0001. ; on a small scale. The Honourable Baronet had given a
from 1833 to 1838 it was 4,764,0001.; during the five meat exaggerated at count of the capabilities of the
years of the last Administration it was 7,062,0001.; and basins at Keyham. It was truo that the basins were
during the three years which the present Government very extensive, but this arose from the necessity of
had held office it had been 7,492,000/. If the increase having space for bringing the ships alongside the wharfs,
which had been made in the estimates since 1827, on ac- that they might be placed under the shears to receive
count of contracts tor packet service, additional men and the immense weight of boilers and machinery; and, so
additional pensions, were to be added to the estimates far from those [resins having been constructed on an ex-
for the years betwesu 1818 and 1827, these estimates travagantly large scale, it was in evidence that they were
would exceed the present estimates by about 450,0001 only about one-third larger than the basins at Ports-
When it was borne in mind, too, that since 1828 we bad mouth. lie had been informed by an officer that so far
created largo steam establishments in the dockyards, from the basins at Woolwich and Portsmouth being too
and established a steam navy, the House would see cause large, the only mistake had been in making them so
to doubt that the percentage on wear and tear was less small; and he therefore thought it AISS the duty of the
formerly than now. Government, in undertaking new works, to take care
Mr. HENLEY said that 1814 was the period which that sufficient accommodation was provided. The Ho-
he referred to, and insisted cu the statement which he nouratile Baronet had said that a gross blunder had been
had made being correct, committed in placing the works at Keyham on the lee
Lord BERNARD advocated the propriety of aelvanc• shore; but, as the dockyard was on the he side of the
ing money for the improvement of Cork harlsour. The harbour, it was deemed advisable to place the basins on
sum required for the completion of the works would not the same shore. The Bon. Baronet was entirely mis-
t exceed 30,0001 taken in his statement respecting the depth of water, for
Colonel SIBTHORP gave notice that urn the bring. he (Mr. Corry) believed the channel would be kept per-
ing up of the report he would move that the number of fectly clear without having recourse to dredging. Al-
the Lords of the Admiralty should be reduced by two, though he admitted it was desirable that Parliament
and that the salary of the First Lord should be reduced should have the fullest information as to the extent to
by ten per cent. which it was intended to carry these works, yet it was
Captain FITZROY was happy to bear his testimony very difficult on commencing a great undertaking of this
to the fact that the navy had never been in a more efli kind to determine upon the particular works, so as to
clout state than under the late First Lord and the late make a satisfactory estimate. During the progress of
Secretary to the Admiralty; whilst at the same time due such works various improvements, enlargements, or
attention had been paid to economy. lie wished to alterations might become necessary; and if in 1843 he
know whether there was any improvement as to tie me- had laid before Parliament a full estimate of the works at
thud of coaling the steam navy, for considering that only Keyham, he would have been deceiving the House, for he
100 tons could be put on board in a day on the old sys. rosily did not then know to what extent it might be de-
tem, it was desirable that some other mode should be sirsble to go. lie denied, however, that the Government
adopted. Another question to which ho wished to call in the course they had taken, had had any intention of
the attention of the Government was with regard to the deceiving Parliament, for their estimates bad always
freight of specie. lie thought it would be better it some specified the particular portions of the work for which
arrangements could be made for altering the present votes were required. The increase in vote No, 11 had
practice, been noticed, but that increase was caused by the same
Sir F. T. BARING was much obliged to the Hon. circumstance which had led to the increase of many
Gentleman for the handsome terms in which he had other estimates in this department—by the necessity of
referred to the state of the navy under the late Lord providing fur the maintenance and repair of the steam
Auckland and his Hon. Friend Mr. Ward. Ho was navy. Another cause of the increased expenditure for
glad also to have the opportunity of bearing his testi- works in the dockyards was this—when the late Board
mony to the merits of his lion. Friend the late secretary. of Admiralty came into office, they found the dockyards
He must say that during the short time he had been at in a state of dilapidation, they considered it their duty
the Admiralty he had never met with a more zealous to place them in an efficient condition, and hence con.
public servant,—():Tear, hear.) Tho attention of his siderable expense had been incurred, but he believed it
lion. Friend had been much given to the subject to had been attended with results most advantageous to the
which the lion. Gentleman first referred—that of coal- public service.
ing the steam navy ; but he (Sir F. Baring) had been After a few words, in explanation, from Sir W.
so short a time in his present office that he was not yet MOLESWORTII,
acquainted with all the details of it. He believed, how- Mr. COBDEN said it had been stated before the
ever, that before long a new plan would bo adopted. Committee to which the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr.
With respect also to freight, the question was one of Corry) had referred, that the Government had en-
considerable difficulty, and ho had not yet boon able to tered into contracts to a certain amount for con.
strutting the works at Keyham ; and a strong
ceme to a satisfactory determination upon it.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY then complained of the works opinion was expressed in the Committee that
that had been carried on at Keyham. Already 479,000/, those contracts should be adhered to, but he
had been spent upon them, and now 120,0001. more was thought there was also a strong feeling that the works
re quired. There was a powder-magazine in the middle should not go on after those contracts were completed.
of the works, and he should wish to know what was the He hoped his Hon. Friend (Sir W. Molesworth) would
determination respecting that magazine before they take the sense of the House as to whether any further
voted any more money. expense should be incurred until the House or a Com;
Sir W. MOLESWORTH thought there had been mittee had an opportunity of seeing plans of the docks
great waste and extravagance with regard to these and basins, and of ascertaining what would be the total
works. In 1844 Parliament had been informed that cost of their construction. Lle reasonhadby
practical
to know
certain works were to be commenced at Keyham ; these that the whole thing was considered
were to cost 400,0001., and on the faith of that estimate engineers to be disgraceful
the to thecoencesoslui
inet
yt r yoffrotashebseegindonciknsg,
Parliament had voted 30,000/. On the 25th of September to end.—(Hear.)
ttc
of
lastAs
year came to the resolution that
to
of the same year, a Mr. Baker, a contractor, had pro- t
they
Committee
e had not been begun, they would not have recom-
doeks were
anda a
posed to the Admiralty a plan of operations at Keyham
if thec
which required 713,0001. for the completion of a portion tmi
sefinedded tthheir e i
is construction,
country
because
already
the y
only, not of the whole of the intended works, and the
brains enough for the repair of all her steamers.
Admiralty approved of the plan, and entered into eno-f.
Was the House aware that these preparations
gagements with Mr. Baker to that effect ; in. virtue of
were made, not in order to construct engines for
those engagements the Secretary of the Admiralty I
their steamships, but for the repair of these vessels in
the event of a great war? It seemed to be assumed that
they were to have another general war to•morrow, end
stated that Parliament was pledged to ebxrenesdirttahnoet'ynueaxrt
at least 120,000/. at Keyharn.
that they must therefore be
estimate in 1845 had been only fol
moment that
e6v7esr,tooo/., though the
prepared with steam basins,
Admiralty must have known at that mo
_ham and have everything in order, to be ready for another
taxpayers? He atrti.x
ethdaetnaiedwtihsee
npeoeleicsysitwyitohf
the whole of the works in contembpslsattiloonnattwliceey
that
breaftetlreenocfeTtrOd'tahleg
could not be completed for much
sum. Ia 1846 and 1847 the same estimate of 675,0001.
At bngth—last year having a steam-basin at all; and his reason for doing so
had been laid before Parliament. 1
to 22' 0001 The was, that private builders of steamboats had no basins.
had discovered that an irn- —(Hear,
r) 'There was not in this country such a thing
Navy Committee, bheoenveovme omitted from that estimate, and in existence as a steam-basin for the construction of
portant item hadtold that 1,322,6271. was the private steam vessels. The Right Hon. Gntleman said
now the Committee was
sum required, although •the Hon. Gentleman the Secre- that the advantage
of Keyham dock was to be estimated,
tary for the Admiralty had told the Navy Committee not by the extent of dock, but by the amount of wharf-
1, that the scale upon which the Admiralty would pro- age. If eo, what was the use of this great dock? It would
pace to open Keyham would be less than half that laid be better to have a great sea-wall, and then to bring up
down in the plans which they found traced out by the the steamers alongside the wall. But this system of
previous Government." He had likewise told the Navy expending public money was carried on without the
Committee that it was originally proposed to have two slightest reference to the capabilities of the taxpayers
basins and three docks at Keyham, and that the pre- of the country; and if the Government had an
sent Government had struck out one of the dock?. It inexhaustible California under the table of the House, it
was evident, therefore, that from the year 1844 to
1848 Parliement had been naiiinforincd with regard reckless would be impossible for them to go to work in a more.
to ma
the intended costs of them work', It had, however, Keyham dock.—(Hear, hear.) Preparation was made
ruler than they bad done in reference to this
been sail that the works estimat, din 1844 at 400.000. for the removal of' one
were different from those which were' now to cost 'more up of another, at an expense of 90,0001., capable of con •
than 1,300,0001. How did they eilfer? Preciney in powder magazine and the putting
the present all stored in places of
taining 40,000 barrels of powder. Was that wanted ?
same manner as the foundation of a house differed They had 90,000 barrels at
from the whole house when ehnonl ' `l.l •of security • this country But he ,hould be told that this
e . wowts
1844 the ,abi.llll
worke It in 1344. Admirelty pletely stated :wet tt;aytii.og be primed, charged, and loaded
's le in r wee, to wen New, %, us it
that it would be useless to commence the works unit se in preparation for a great warto-morrow.—(Elear, hear.)
Parliament were prepared to expend 1,300,0007. upon Instead of preparing for an imaginary war, it would be
them, what would have been the consequences? In all wiser to consider the convenience and capabilities of the
probability Pglitiment, kinlYing that there were costly taxpayers; and, in order to put an end to Cho extraordti

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