The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-23 00:00:00

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respectable persona as any of the Honourable Member's
ccustituents. .
Mr. RAMSDEN- -I have a list of persons whose
names are forged.
After some further discussion the petition was ordered
to be printed.
Mr. POYNTZ presented a petition from Kingston,
pray;ng that it might be united to Ashburton.—The peti-
tion was ordered to be referred to the Committee.
REFORM BILL.
On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, the House re-
solved itself into a Committee on the English Reform
Bill, Mr. Bernal in the Chair.
The CHAIRMAN then stated that the question was
that the borough of Hedon stand part of schedule A.
Mr. FARRAND denied that the borough of ,Hedon was
a nominate borough ; but he did not in conga quence of
what had taken place intend to oppose its being placed
in schedule A. He, however, thought that it might
have been judiciously annexed with Holderness, no which
it was contiguous, and which contained upwards t 1 27,000
inhabitants. He believed the subject was entitlod to the
consideration of Government, and stated his intimtion of
bringing forward the subject of this borough at a future
period.
Mr. STRICKLAND had the honour of being oonnected
with the East Riding of Yorkshire. He intended at some
future period to move that the West Riding should return
four representatives. Yorkshire, which was six times
the extent of Durham, was only to have two additional
Members, while that place was to have four. He trusted
the attention of Ministers would be given to this subject.
He was a great supporter of the present Reform Bill, but
he could not help expressing himself as he had done.
Mr. RAMSDEN differed from his Worthy Colleague in
many points. He most heartily wished that Hedon should
remain in schedule A, for he believed a more corrupt
borough never existed.—( Hear.)
Mr. SADLER thought the Hon. Member opposite
quite right in saying th►t neither justice nor population had
been regarded with respect to that great and opulent past
of the country. Four Members, according to the proposition.
would only be given to a population of 207,000 inhabi-
tants ; other places might be instanced similarly circum-.
stanced ; for one he would name Lancaster, and such discre-
pancies surely never could be allowed to exist. According
to the present system there was not a part of England that
would not exhibit the utmost degree of inaccuracy, the ut-
most degree of partiality ; and it was a plan which could not
gain the approbation of any man who possessed the slightest
love for justice and equity.
Mr. KENYON said that if any additional Member
was given to any county in England, he should un- 1
doubtedly move that an additional Member be given to
every part of Wales, which sent only one Member to Par-
liament.
Sir CHARLES WETHERELL thought that surely
the House would not agree to put into schedule A
a borough, and at the same time draw a pen through
that borough at once, without hearing what such a
borough had to say in its own defence. He wished to
know from the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Althorp), who
appeared to be giving this important measure its utmost
attention in its various stages, (and which he was sorry
he cold not say as much of respecting all the other Minis-
ters, fir some of them undoubtedly seemed to pay but
very little attention to the measure indeed), why a
small borough in a district was not to stand in the same
condition as that of a small borough in a parish ? He
should like to know also, why Malton, Caine, Tavistork,
and such places were to be allowed to keep their places as
regarded sending Members to Parliament. Though he
(Sir C.) was only a York.hireman in the superinduced
sense of a Mem er of Parliament, he could not help con-
demning this Cromwellian system as regarded the Ea,t
Riding of Yorkshire. Why was there not to be a Bo-
roughbridge and yet to be a Malton. The public, the
House might depend upon it, would require, and must
hare a great deal snore of explauation respecting
this partial plan of proceeding with respect to certain be-
roughs, than had yet been given ; and Hon. Members
ought to know that many of the people were investigating
this measure with a much greater degree of minuteness
than was the House of Commons itself--a measure which
was Cromwellian in its origin—Cromwellian in its cha-
racter.

Lord ALTHORP, in a loud tone of voice, said if boroughs
in districts were to stand in the same situation as those in
parishes, the effect would be that there would hardly be
any county Members at all—the whole country would
be cut up into boroughs. He would not go. into
the question at present, why Mahon, Calne, Tavisto,
and so on, were not in schedule A? The proper period to
discusssuli,:untd thinkwhy fit
a motion,h ey silfitoo a
should i
l ue noti
Hoe.
e ,daintsfraatocthhi
Learnedsey should
ed
mbe
w b
would be
put into that schedule. Should such a motion be
made, he had no doubt that he and his colleague should be
able to state ample reasons why they should not go into
schedule A. Again, with respect to adding Members to
Yorkshire, the proper period to bring that forward woulti
be when the clause came before the Committee, proposing
to give additional Members to counties.
Mr. PRAED entirely differed from his l'ilaj.sty's
Ministers on their notion of taking population and
property as the basis of representation. Afinist rs
had not, however, in this respect, even allowing their
principle to be true, acted fairly ; they had given po-
pulation and property combini,d, and that only, when po-
pulation and property were in large masses, the effect of
which was, as he conceived, most unfair, partial, and
unjust.
Sir C. FORBES thought that a very strung case for
the consideration of his Majesty's Ministers had been made
out, to declare for an increase of the county Members of.
Yorkshire ; as to Hedon, it did not, as it appeared to
him, come within the line which bad been laid down
by his Majesty's Ministers. And the insinuations thrown
out as to bribery and jobbing prevailing in that boroughs
were altogether unsupported by fact—it was easy to assert
but not so easy to prove that these abuses really existed.
(Hear, bear.) The borough in question was in the same
condition as Beverley, and he could assure his Majesty's
Government, that no Member was ever returned to that
House upon more independent principles than he wait
when be represented the borough of Beverley in Parlia-
ment. He had received a very handsome offer, made
on the part of the electors of that independent boroughs
to stand forward as their representative, but Le had de-
clined. The interest of the two boroughs he considered to
be the same, and as far as lay in his power he would en-
deavour to support their interests.
Mr. RAMSDEN had had a great deal of communica-
tion with a gent'ernan of Hedon, and from documents
which he possessed, he could prove that the Members for
that borough hail ins'ructions to vote for or against
the measure of Reform according to the determination of
Ministers to retain in, or exclude from, schedule A. the
borough of Hedon.
Mr. FARRAND thought that the Hon. Member for
Yorkshire had not proved the venality of the borough, and
he (Mr. Farrand) had still to learn the name of his patron.
The question was then put, whether Hedon should
stand part of schedule A, for which the ayes being pre-
valent, it was declared to stand part of the schedule.
The question was then put whether Heytesbnry and
Highani Ferrers should stand part of schedule A, for which
the ayes being predominant, it was carried in the affirma-
tive.

The next motion was, " That the borough of Ilindort
stand part of schedule A."
Mr. J. WEYLAND said it would be only wasting the
time of the House if he were to contend that the 150 ho-
nest electors of Hindon should, under any modified systetu
of Reform, send two Members to Parliament.—(lfearr
hear.) For his own part he cared not for his scat; he
only hoped that the ten.pound householders, into which
these voters would be as it were transmigrated, would
send a Member better qualified to serve the country in rar-
liament than he was. He would say one word on the
principle of disfranchisement. He thought where it was
done without necessity, it was great injustice—(lW.
hear)—and when the Committee came to the enfranchis-
ing clauses, he should be able to show that the best course
to take would be to consolidate some of these boroughs
into a kind of scot and lot boroughs, by which all nu•
proper patronage would be most effectually done awal
with. Though he was now silent on the subjects
he should be able to slow, when the proper time
carrot, that the franchise of tl ese honest electors of
Hindon ought not to be taken wholly Irma them ; slid
he trusted that he should not be twitted or in.ulted
with any charge of wishing to delay the Bill by making
such a motion. What was the Committee for, if they did
not make amendments in the B II ? It had need of amend'
inents. There was, however, a large body in and a large
body out of the House cheering on Ministers to pass the
Bill " with all its inipetlections on its head ;" or, to toe
the metaphor of an lion. and Gallant Mi tither on a former
evening, who applied the feminine gender to his borough
he would say of this Bill—that if she was covered wtth
ulcers, from the Crown of the head to the tip of the chill;
these parties would consider her a Venus (Hear,
He was a Reformer, and was willing to in,ke a sacrifice
at the altar of his country, but he wished that the ine4;
sure should be a real measure of Reform, and that I
should not be represented over the left shoulder to the
people as one thing, and over the right described to the
Aristocracy as another—as quite an aristocratic ineasures
But the honest people of England would not be duped .