The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-04 00:00:00

C (e

CONTRACTS FOR PEAS, OATMEAL, ErTTER,
AND CHEESE.
THVICTUALLING-OFFICE, SEPT. 27, 1881' .
E Commissioners for Victualling I-1,::
Majesty's Navy, WED &c. do hereby give notice, thatill
be
NESDAY, the sth day of October next, they
ready to receive Tenders in writing (sealed up), and. treatrt
for the supply of the following Articles, to be delivered
into his Majesty's Victualling Stores at Deptford, viz. :
pEAsA.. .....
....
Quantity. Period of delivery.
13UTTER .. ............ 60
.1:ons 20th October next, and
0 ATINI AL: ............... 600 Quarters 0 le-half of each by the
the remainder by the
CHEESE .................. ri Tonson sth of Nov. following
Samples of the pirt the Peas and Oatmeal must be produced by
y end '
to the
and the Conditions of the Contracts
may be seen at this Office.
Eac
delih Tender
and b must Specify the price in words at length,
and e vered before One o'clock on the day appointed,
his the Person who makes the Tender, or some Person on
Person
must attend to answer when called for.
M. WALLER CLIFTON.
AIINERAL SUCCEDANEUM FOR FILLING DE-
CAVE") :1-
D iSETH, without Heat or Pressure, and IN-
/C„,2—.ltOD ARTIFICIAL TEETH, without
go N 8 1 z jiilai‘tuirAes.
LLAN and SON, Sur-
sTßEE,,,geon Dentists, No. 32, GREAT RUSSELL-
-,;aItIrIO.OOMSBURY, grateful for the high and
ethletinsive Patronage which has so eminently distinguished
metr Professional exertions since their arrival in the British
PubrlilePTis' respectfully announce to their Friends and the. CAyED'n general, that they still continue to restoreDE
SUCeE TEETH, with their celebrated MINERAL
Fa tufty DANEUM, so universally recommended by the
Te th of London and Pori. The operation of Filling
Pai; ''
Pelf(irmed in a few seconds,'. without the slightest
T.E.i,,at, or pressure. They also FASTEN LOOSE
wilo'l,ll, in a manner singularly efficacious, and SUPPLY
INClthsve-°' PARTIAL SETS of TEETH formed ofs the ORRODIBLE MINERAL or of Natural
'tte:riptso, 'without WIRE or other LIGATURES— uaran-
tati4g ansWer every purpose for Articulating andgAlasti-
Th, D. ,
Ceuful!.4Ctlity are respectfully invited to witness the suc-
-I,i. tresult of the Mineral Succedaneum.
*Loll „ Doe of the above firm may be consulted for a
sttee,PePo,l, on Mondays and Thursdays at No. 31, Neliv-
nettaliattliriningharn alternate days at No. 21, Ce-
,.........et, Leamington S a.
-\_________
______ p

No. 12,188

kers, and rich proprietors. He had not fished for these
petitions. They hail been spontaneously put into his
hands, and he felt honoured by the confidence of the peti-
tioners. He next presented a petition from the borough
of Southwark (as we understood) to the same effect,
signed by 3,270 of the inhabitants. The next petition
was from the mayor, aldermen, bailiffs, and inhabitants of
the town of Derby. His Royal Highness presented peti-
tions to the same effect from the Ward of Cheap, the Ward
of Farringdon Within, in the city of London ; from Ham-
mersmith, signed by 500 persons ; from Ludlow, more
numerously signed than their former petition ; from Pen-
zance, in Cornwall ; and from Gospeton, and other places
in the county of Lincoln.
The Earl of ELDON had great satisfaction in present-
ing three petitions against the Reform Bill, although their
Lordships ought not to be prevented by petitions from
doing their duty. The first petition was from Bridge-
water, the second from Weymouth, and the third was
from the Clergy, M igistrates, and other inhabitants of
Norwich, signed by 13,500 persons.
Lord DARTMOUTH (as we understood) asked whe-
ther he heard right, when he understood that the Noble and
Learned Earl stated that the Norwich petition was signed
by 13,500 persons?
The Earl of ELDON sail that it had been presented to
him as such, and that he was no further answerable.
Lord DARTMOUTH then presented a petition from
the city of Norwich in favour of the Reform Bill, signed
by 11,570 persons.
The LOND CHANCELLOR stated that he had a great
number of petitions—about eighty in all—to present, in
favour of the Reform Bill. He trusted that the peti-
tioners would not take it as any mark of disrespect if he
only read the names of the petitions, in order to
save the time of the House. The first was from
the great trading and manufacturing town of Ha-
lifax, in Yorkshire, the capital of a large and most im-
portant district of that county. It was signed by 12,500
persons. That town had no shadow of representation
as it now stood. lie had petitions from a great many
other town:, and was ready to join issue with his Noble
and Learned Friend as to the opinion of the people on
this great question. If some few were opposed to the
measure, the number was very small, and scarcely per-
ceptible in the mass which was in its favour. His Lord-
ship then presented petitions in favour of the Reform Bill
from Belfast, signed by 3,500 persons ; from Preston,
signed by 2,360, and which would have been signed by
more if the present petitioners had not been anxious that
the petition should be presented before the question was
disposed of; front Kirkintullech, from Cumbernauld,
front Kendal, front Tiverton, from Rye, from St. Leo-
nard's, Shoreditch, from Glasgow, from Aberdour, front
Kelso, from Leith, from Newton Stewart, from St. Mary's,
Islington, from Paisley, and several incorporations of
Glasgow, from Aberdeen, and from various places in the
counties of York, Leicester, and Perth, in all about 45
petitions. He postponed the presentation of the re-
mainder till another opportunity.
Earl GREY presented a petition in favour of the Re-
form Bill from the merchants, bankers, and traders of the
city of London, and stated that lie was instructed to say,
that the sentiments of that important body were now as
favourable to the Reform Bill as they had been at any
period since the Bill was introduced. He had a mass of
petitions to the same effect to present, and he hail also,
like his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, to re-
quest that the petitioners wou!d not think it disrespectful
to them if he read only the names. These numerous pe-
titions contained the spontaneously-expressed sentiments of
the great mass of the cotninunLy, and afforded the strongest
proof of- their_ ardent wishes for the pssisng of the
and also an undoubted indication that their zeal in its fa-
your had not abated. The Learned Lord opposite had re-
marked that their Lordships ought not to be prevented
by petitions from doing their duty. He agreed that their
Lordships ought conscientiously to do their duty ;
but the petitions of such a vast majority of the com-
munity were entitled to respect, and ought to have much
weight with their Lordships, when they came to con-
sider what was their duty. The petitions showed clearly
what was the feeling and dispositi..n of the great bulk of
the community of all classes in regard to this measure,
and he apprehended that there must be some mistake as to
the numbers said to have signet! the Noble and Learned
Earl's Norwich petition. His Lordship then presented a
petition in favour of the Bill from the town of Manches-
ter, signed by 33,110 persons, and all these signatures
were affixed in the course of five days. In March last a
petition to the same effect had been got up at the
place, which was signed by 21,000 in nine days, so that
this petition was a proof that the zeal for the Reform B II
had not abated in that town. His Lordship then pre-
sented petitions to the same effect from Devonport, signed
by 2,000 persons; from the Northern Political Union,
signed in a short time by 30,000 persons ; from Glas-
gow, signed by 45,000 persons; and from various places
in the counties of Kent and Cornwall, numsrously
signed. There was a petition also from the county of
Kent, agreed to at a meeting of that county, and there
were only twelve dissentients out of a meeting of three or
four thousand people. Tile meeting would have 'been
much more numerously attended if it had not taken
place dining the hop-gathering season ; a circumstance
which prevented many of the fanners from attending.
There was no intemperance of expression in these peti-
tions, but all were expressive of a warns and ardent wish
for the passing of the Bill. His Lordship presented
petitions to the same effect from the county of Mont-
gomery, signed by 7,000 persons ; front South Shields,
from Berwick, from Blackburn, from St. Margaret's
and St. John's, Westminster, from Newcastle-upon
Tyne, &c.
The Earl of RADNOR presented a petition to the
same effect from the ward of Bread-street, in the city of
London. The petitioners stated that great inconvenience
bad resulted from the delay which had taken place in
passing this measure, and earnestly desired that it might
be passed with as little additional delay as possible. The
petition was signed by nine-tenths of the inhabitants of the
Ward, and would have been signed by more if there had
been time.
Ail these petitions were laid on the table.

LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 4, 1831.

11VIPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
4° USE OP LORDS,
, At an ,
leading
',? the it ear,Y hour this afternoon every avenue .
OCTOBER 3.
4'eeriti —0055 of Lords was thronged with
hear th°e"ideeri:t
enda others wishing to obtain adiniss:soen
oftc
persons having
eonatabi_ . upon the Reform Bill ; a strong
otders
of" Were Placed •
ter A• Le tr t• Westminster, to pre-
b. , in the various passages utpuoler the
-ve order , la, Constable of
ofeermid , and to keep a free passage for Members, a task
Were 0
'ssion was re-
t"rds "able difhealty, and when the doors of the House of
raentiout
vperied tile rush to gain adtni
eXcelient e are happy
the
Pbblie r, accoranaodations which have been made for
ri, press in bearing our testimony tot the
',tie Al
from
the. eon 41°'s of CLEVELAND presented petitions i
shire, --ntY. °r
in Shrop-
Durhatn, and from 'Wellington,
from
tilo favour of
petition
. .
, B f d the following P
e oral ; an
I.° THet•it.,is" of St. Mar -le-Strand :
I-
ltiejeuAT "tcllll' 110N04A131,F. THE LORDS, SAPS.
817:411L1',‘AND TEMPORAL IN PARLIA MEN T TIo. FD
A\l)
trUMBLE PETITION OF THE INIL ,
-AN-1, ti
PARISH Of
ST
„ OUBEHOLDERS OF THE
COUNTY OF
Ali ,lARY-LF-MTIOAND, IN THE ,
STER
IN/ I)I,I',„ESEX- A ND LIBERTY OF WESTMIN
81,
THEIR fie MEETING DULY CONVENED
OF-41' CHU • , DENS THIS 3(Yrn DAY
81,,,,,, , CM\ AR DENS, tOkSyrl,
~'• ' }-MBErt Ig3l.
satisfied
vr.Z' a ltet;„;;•hat your Petitioners have long been
l in Parliament
Trieresca-,;.tot the representation of the peep e
fed
at bein 0 their happiness and prre.perity.
ar us kinds of b
Nighi,4 latl6useh°l4erst engage:d 'n
'class of society, and
essr, it
ern r TPUCh with the middle c a.
~. .
ey
have
iter‘.;.,rY hart PoYtng numbers of working perv_yg tn
ii 'and have cib-
het",Wi qie gi.:,i.ati! opportunities of obsseof ,
persons for such a
rei,,,,:n iti 1,11/g desire of these classes
the people to return as
gtiatineNatives 'nnent as would enable
to them to be the best
th ell ours"lrnen who should appear . .
tht, at y-Y.on the business of the natio •
the fear that
1.,,,2..50 4,4 Aetitioners could not but entertain
would be de-
yi",,Tabritii tieplj, arid now indispensable.
measure
have been ad-
o geollsly line had gone by when it could 'leo ''' Petit'ati°Dted•
the
or &atio.,
thislon were therefore highly gratified
with
hnctiou
_ .18 !vi!' Of present It • t • s that thei, with the. _ e
ie..
sep.Thte i)estY would ' inis crR
fr.
, w tich would b
1. d
Zttre,,,sed;.)o lieople,a(rd'seth:y ine oublic meeting
Kinggood for his
hi our petii,!oftil subjects.
Bill for amend-
Yor_rieasZreDruelsr are fully convinced that the 13111 is a
wise
"ver :I',ild wiii:tf;n. of. the
People
i'theimareans of promoting
itir.i:Art?le pur`paisteuecome a law, he
kop, t4l,.l:°ners are also fully persuaded that if the Bill be re;
I,:enibieost direful consequences will ensue—consequence
Wolilt4 Pttiti tha4 any ever before witnessed in this cuht.
hot ‘lvl. not wilpers have property, of various kinds, which theywould
opiZowiii . illingly r'°,BlY Place in Jeopardy, and lives which they.:
and (
t gisguisisk ; but they cannot conceal from themselves,
4°,1 tons that tie frntli. Your Lordships, their deliberately funned
l uished ;
roan. at shot4cei ttlitatter has proceeded toofar to laic, r,t....i
n?,,,
every
l'rc4e4rtl,racit (try and %1 b,,,e,tiVetted by your : H
ando above all the
ene,aysetitiohnves of thel4her eraennks‘tof society.
fears, very
till .
~iy.ent__!l-2,1,1ave been alarmed with ofrepor,tsis.. th'e
i ps will
tortil.Av4tytte':-.(iiwee‘d,er that Satisfiedorhdspip.sur Llansir
eleetli (4,Pieepeli'l, if Yoll'r I'Lliclisatll be COnyinced that. asna-
ll4,4"‘er4i'c a"8, mod Lordships
by the Bill to exercise. the
~ kith; -Ur 14.'1 are desst-diait it should be the law Hof' i-rfir(tl 1,3;1'5, thWtlrers do, therefore, most solemnly,asnsteisr
de.
to•ensearrnrlajorit,,leY have no doubt that it is veryi earnestly d
tcoa but by an
thiniPill„Vit '
y , hyonfy of male ersonsialiloiiiii.e ,
that this is not
Nutt r'''''
o f 11T e the() e
1 b11°l?t i i rratic t
vain 'desire for smitieme-
-I,..hat oth.elii,_a restless uesire for change; but that itisl
00th , v. iiiith-yt,Ot eonsideration, and a thorough conviction.y
°Yen, I°leht „,,the Passing loin can save the .i.,,,e,.
i_ IN, raci)t ~,.Trriotion, in which our admirably-con t 1
41ii the ttl.'etitiorZl-4d Probabl be destroyed.
) t, kill hewers deprecate all violent changes, conceiviirifintlitaiti,
thp,,,irTjelit fo4 laW, it will tend to preserve the Gfno'Cwn'l t
and
i'art?pl Of tbl;r?erve the prerogatives of the
will maintain,
littleat ~ s Of ,L, C Peers, whilst it restores, and wililiy
piraltv,ii
1 detour 44.-',,ls,eople • they therefore must humbly .h
as
ellNsYeas 0,...,3,Zip5,,wnil tie pleased to pass e Bill
Honour-
, sistent with the forms of your. 1•444 t (Sign ,
holders.)
,041 b ,A3Nbocal by the inhabitant house
the petition
lt" that 44140 , . bERRY, in reference to
thtit thereeont,s:
in
that though there were many persons
satisfied
4eewn w„, i favour of Reform, yet he was
d to so
g. a INA tballY who were strongly oppose
signed 4AI) '"e'
NoR
frewshire,
,tli„ Y 1,,, resented petitions from Ren
r. p 4 ,- aril,,f
carious
14 leest all • ' I 9,000 persons, and from
tif,,,„'• AoL,i, 'n favour of the Reform Bill,
'curl 114011. P. presented petitions to the same
toilttl,r4
ell; 5
triber
of
otvts :
in Devonshire.
1.. Y '4Devon,Pollb presented a similar petition from the
11 ''''l
LLB a' re d
- 5 turlt 6, e to at a county meeting.
i oth.
sog
al, eodeti
that aUdressed the House at some _en,
thim 'Med t from the thin attendance at the meet-
-4 re,,‘iPlil h:a' all! considering the state Of the public
11"04 i, th".9l4”stion a short time ago, there had been
Ile ,t:, 1)(14,
0;1 efinnty.
a `tri t,,e haIItiICHAIOND asked the Noble Lord, ast
, to,,in4,,lginst ti,been re-ution, whether he had go
near) ROLL L' Hill ?
I), **-44 1 atti e, rt. • I
cries of Lear,
Paged t ie kn,,,.... • Mil y not—(Loud cr
..
and ~,,•,,0 the bili'w 4 great part of the country was 01'
hod to
~, ' aad he should do his dutY fearlessly'
Thrl:t. + 1;4(1 to the intimidation that had been
fro,4
s.. tit,ke f
of file teffieiri, °. 1‘10111•01.1( presented a 1
Fet.tion
ord, tin, slgked 1,
. favour
Y 19,135 persons, in
the "blPs t a"
°b"erved i their
e lion 0 pasi the
..„.. that he would entreat
44 "et whet,
‘,..ut1l for the sake of the character of
11l fkt, 413',Fteas.a mll)jeet of great importance.
there
(lur of , , ""lIMP, in - •
ere n, ,e
o,
. • Presenting several petitions
btiltio,, 3, in ,-,,
,s. , said the people had discovered that
i) ear,
)al /t.,..0 `.le Bill now before t) House that Consti-
,i, J 1 till Which , Le. _ . _
itt.te loyst .°''Y were they so much desired.—(Hear,
of
ge Ito ;ttiporta,,,_
discuss
at the conitnencement of one
deep!
t4osa, .sild h'4e‘ oeirsietussions that ever had come before
Th,„ eori,;(l,, , re,.lted Noble Lords to pause anal
jr, f 4140 . i the 'ulipet before
they voted against it.
4votir Itila
°f HASTI r ' e
..
The °1 Ref N GS presented several petitions
orrn, fore} buk
ar, e of suss liri 1", 1,4,1, EX presented a petition from the
p,.40.,_'t0l
,e, rs, and other inhabitants of the city
11i,,,"'N handf. its Vieitlity, to the number of 25,74.0
15,,,,, ''''"llr of the Reform Bill. Iris Royal
`'itle 1 stated that the ,
110 ( to „, . oe whole of those signatures were
o,,yP,rsort
141;1°er pietitions in the short space of five days ;
•I`l, 'n" Leen • 6 years of age had signed it, nor had
reet.ve Arars,uis 'fl'erted twice over.
Li,' I. °f LONDONDERRY stated, that be had
~...l'Alf ,i, ner o„, ,
' th ." . Da ',
-- to , 1 • , signing
(. . u Tet from a person,
kti..: 4,g,,,,tua, vison, representing that at least 1733
send !I tt,)
a_d ti were factious---(A laugh)--he meant
~L. of th " that 11,, be:iew Ithat five to .
-,sf t, em were ,
right . the ,teen..ac of
to.F.,eris. /le conld pot pledge him-
for tri,nti,w'"..Y t tins statement, hut 11., thought it
for I.e boke ri It'
, pr„, 4, st °' SUSSEXfr •
ill , ater„nt
an e cou,d not be answerable
v4eh "Y
saY thaty more than the Noble Marquis. He
lie
note for
foe the
ene the two DI Noble
for Bristol had
tire,t r Pres,t!l ,ii respectability of the petitioners.
v rott, to their Lordships a 1 Ct. •
Tried b a tneeting of tl • I •
, 1 e i ion to the same
4,ti.. Y the eh • le inhabitants at Birmingham,
ti„,
... airman in the natne of the • This
perfee:: was numer.,,_,, _ meeting.
dpi ti
netptiZnlY arid. respeetably signed, but was
.1 'Rlcial urii__n, . a petition from the Birmingham
imp , Th,B°or . inch would be presented to their Lord-
This petition was signed b
y the merchants, ban-

Some other Noble Lords were coming forward with pe-
titions, when there arose a call for the Order of the Day,
as it was past six o'clock.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE hoped that the rule of
limiting the time for presenting petitions to six o'clock
would not be acted upon to-morrow. Time ought to be
allowed for the presentation of every petition which had
been sent to that House before their Lordships came to de..
eide on the momentous question now before them. There
ought to be, no limitation to the time for presenting peti-
tions, and all ought to be presented before they came to 4
division.

The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed with his Noble
Friend that all the petitions ought to be presented before
they came to a vote ; but his Noble Friend was mistaken
if he thotudtt that any rule had been laid down. It was
merely a 'auggestion that petitions should be taken from
four to six ; but if there should be a pressure, of course a
different arrangement might be made and a longer time
nken. No doubt all the petitions ought to be received
before they came to a vote : but they had the whole week
before them. .

go on receiving petitions till there were none left. That
would be the most regular Parliamentary proceeding.
Lord KENYON agreed with the Noble Baron, and
thought that in that case all they had to do was to fix
the hour at which they would meet.—(Cries of " four
o'clock !" and " three o'clock 1" from different pirts of the
House.; He would now more that the House meet at
three o'clock.

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM suggested that the House
should meet at two o'clock, for the presentation of petitions.
The LORD CHANCELLOR must object to any ar-
rangement, the effect of which would be to have the peti-
tions read without my one to listen to them, and tL-ri to
have them shoved under the table, or subsequently into a
basket, without anybody knowing anything' about them
this, if their Lordships were to sit at two o'clock, would be
the erect—there would, perhaps, he only four or five Peers
present—such as had petitions ; and tile remainder of their
Lordships would not come to the House till the hour for
resuming the debate should have arrived.—( Hear). They
had the whole week before them for the debate, and for
ptieletitriez givsing of petitions—for his own part he was ready
to sit at any hour, but he would not consent to hurry the
unduly forward that no one should be aware of
their having been 'presented.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE agreed that there ought to be
a full attendance of their Lordships when the petitions were
presented.
The Marquis of CLEVELAND suggested the receiving
of petitions from four till seven.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM had no objection to
move that their Lordships should meet at three for the re-
ceiving of petitions,
Lord HOLLAND thought that the general usage of
their Lordships would save most time—the best way
would be to fix at what hour they would meet, and then

first day of that Session ; and I am sure that your Lord..
ships cannot have forgotten the answer that they re-
ceived, any more than you can have forgotten'the general
consternation produced by that answer, when the Noble
Duke, then at the head of his Majesty's Government, de-
clared himself opposed in principle to all Reform what-
ever—(Hear, hear)—that the present Constitution of the
House of Commons was a thing so perfect in itself—
(Hear, hear)—a thing so unattainable by human wisdom,
that it ought to be unalterable; and that any change,
even the slightest, would be productive of danger to the
country. The effect of that declaration all your Lord
ships must have felt.—(Hear, hear.) It was described
by Mr. Drummond, in his address to the electors of Sur-
rey—a gentleman not, I believe, adverse to the late Ad-
ministration, and certainly not favourable to the present.
Mr. Drummond had stated in that address that that de-
claration of the Noble Duke showed great ignorance of
the public feeling. 'and was calculated to drive the people
to despair. A Noble Friend of mine also spoke of it in
strong terms, and stated that the dissolution of the late
Government, and all the agitation that had ensued, were
owing to that imprudent and unfortunate declaration.—
(Hear, hear.) Thus far, then, I must stand acquitted
with your Lordships, that in proposing the measure
which I this night have to propose to your Lordships, I
am doing nothing which is not consistent with the prin-
ciples that I have always maintained ; that I propose it in
continuance of that strong conviction which I expressed
at a moment when I could not have had the most remote
idea of filling the situation which I now so unworthily
hold; and that it has always been my uniform con-
viction that this measure ought no longer to be delayed.
What followed is well known to your Lordships. I was
called on most unexpectedly by my Sovereign to form an
Administration. On what principle was I to form it?—
(Hear, hear.) On that of my predecessor—hoping to
carry on the same system, but with greater success ? My
Lords, I could have no such presumptuous hope or expec-
tation. If that had been possible, there would have been
no reason or motive for their removal. The question,
then, simply came to this—that they were to go on main-
taining the same system as heretofore, or that those who
succeeded them were to act on a principle more congenial
to the general feelings of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
Under these circumstances I certainly did state to my So.
vereign, as a condition for my accepting office, that I must
be allowed to bring forward a measure of Reform as a
measure of the Government. That condition was graci-
ously assented to by my indulgent Master; and though
that measure may be dissented from in this House, at least
we have the satisfaction of feeling that it has been met by
the sanction of the public ; anti I therefore lost no time in
preparing, in conjunction with my colleagues, a measure,
the result of which is to form the subject of this night's
deliberation. So far, then, I hope your Lordships will
understand, that I am not chargeable with the introduc-
tion of an unnecessary measure—that I had grounds for
thinking that the state of public feeling absolutely re-
paired the introduction of the measure, and that it
could no longer be delayed with safety. Under these
circumstances, I think that it cannot be charged against
are as a crime, that I took the earliest opportunity of
carrying into effect my design, and of acquitting toy-
stdf of the pledge which I had given, by bringing for-
ward a measure, which, if it receives the sanction of
this House, will, I must conscientiously believe, prove a
measure of peace, tranquillity, and conciliation to the whole
country.—(Cheers.) But there is still a further point to
which I have to give an answer. It will, nc doubt, be
slid, grant that there is a general feeling in favour of Re-
forin—grant that there is a general admission of the prin-
ciple (an admission so general that, with the exception of
the Noble Duke, I believe that there is not one of the late
Administration that does not feel that the measure has
been brought to such a crisis that it must be seriously
looked at)—grant all this—yet why go the extent of the
present measure, which, in the opinion of those who make
this observation, is revolutionary in its principle, subver-
sive in its spirit, and calculated to prove fatal to the Con-
stitution ? My Lords, I hope that I shall be able to
answer that question also; and however easy it may be to
declaim about revolution and subversion, I trust that I
shall be able to show that there is nothing in the measure
that is not founded on the acknowledged principles of the
English Constitution—(Cheers)—nothing that is not con-
sistent with the ancient system of representation—and
nothing that may not be adopted with perfect safety to all
the existing privileges of the State, and more particularly
to that order to which we belong, and which it has been
erroneously supposed this measure is intended to attack.
—(Hear, hear.) The principle, then, being universally
admitted, that something must be done, we naturally come
to the question—in what manner it ought to be done ? I
imagine that there is not one of your Lordships, from the
most diminutive bit-by-hit Reformer up to the Noble Lord
opposite, who some time ago took an opportunity of saying
that whatever was done on this subject must be vigorotrs
and decisive—who will he disposed to deny that it was
necessary for us to ask ourselves—in what manner is this
Reform to be effected ? Whether it must be by doing as
little as possible—such as bringing something, that really
meant nothing, in the name of Reform, and so affecting to re-
deem our pledge—or whether it must be by taking the Noble
Lord's plan,
I was going to say, but plan he never vouch-
safed. (A laugh.) Shall I then rather say, by taking
the Noble Lord's principle of doing something vigorous
and eff, ctive ? If so, I would observe, that I think see
have (lone that indeed—(Hear, hear, from the Opposi-
tion)_for the principle of our measure is, that it should
be effectual, and such as to give confidence to the people—
(Cheers from the Ministerial side)—at the same time en-
abling property and intelligence to take their stand in that
aeyesaro,f which we
fair proportion which the improvement of the age appears
to requi____re. Th_es,:T,lt,ehe;:rdwoefreprtolmieistewtoo
the
had our choice. As to taking the tirst-that of a 'bit-by-
Wt Reform—that of beeping
And breaking it to the hope,"
—that of introducing a half measure as a step to future
improvement at a more distant period—it hail this funda-
mental of it would have satisfied nobody—
(Cheers)--those rez;lity the opponents of all
Reform, whothey w
tasked in
dabout supporting a system
0;
()
t; g h
which no one could understand, and which assumed no ma-
terial shape, would, on finding that the ground had keen
taken from under their feet, have been discontented ;
while, on the other hand, the people, who were looking fir:
a substantial and effective measure; wo old certainly not
have been satisfied ; and thus this' Ministerial measure,
instead of giving stiseaction, would be expos& d to the
fundamental objection, that it did nothing towards ap-
peasing that agitation and excitement which Lad so
alaratingly prevailed. Looking, then, at the question in
this point of view, it would utterly have faile4 a;,1.4 ne-
cessarily came to the conelaisiota that the tohst prudent, the
most s'afa meal:tare that i could propose would be a hold one
_(Hear, hear)—and this the rather, because I felt that,
looking to the safety of the country, which was the true
policy, I could introduce sun a measure as would satisfy
the general desire of the people, on reasonable terms, with-
out going from the position on which I was determired
stand—that of defending the true nrincipies tic the 'Cori-
hear,; ;t Was-nn Principle, then,
that 4
yc`olleagues considered the plan of Reform ;
san'il and on on looking at the various causes that had given rise to
the complaints of the people on this subject, it was im-
possible not to find our attention attracted to the aomina-
tion boroughs, as they are called. against these the pub-
lie has long been directed, and, I think, With good
interest, were sufficient to outweigh the Votes of an
ii
portion of the inhabitants of-this country, ii
orhie n
ta; no
gCl;etntsoe; 'foras long as these boroughs, in which the public
be no matter of surprise he'ar the eciamation
that it vr"tiqi bF-109;tei to hatHe no representation at all
than suffer so gross an abuse to continue. And is it unna-
tural that the people should have imbibed a disgust for that
when we come to consider what is the
Cltinc't'etriveofß)ern'
those boroughs ? The claim set ne for them •
without
eoo titletn %t.he
reotfepdaer
view
is that of sending Members to' the of' boinriatans
he leas
ny
eei
ttac,,t thought,,:t,rehcs.tp:heegwryet,:r
xrie.:::l•eiib6tnuehnfrianev,fieatdt:
iire;',=nae to the 'CGarcter of being the
t
t(vut',ierin.c,aiiiudtguihei:aain:lerauspti,tahirwho eet.
i Crest nsulting
who dispose of it 'fox' their (into par-
they are the nominees of Peers, or of other wealthy •
of the conimunity. These are the feelings that p;T:vail
among the people, and how it is a-a-a:shale to convert
them into those of anection and conciliation towards
he Government or the Constitution, without rernov-
ing those boroughs, I
must confess I am not able tc
see. - Is it, again I ask, to be wondered at that the
people should feel dissatisfied, when they recollect the i
scenes that take place at each election, the barefaced cor-

The LORD CHANCELLOR put the question ; but it
appe ring that the House was alre.ady to meet at eleven
o'clock for appeals, the sense of the House was not taken.
Earl GREY thought that four would be found to be
early enough ; hut if an earlier hour were wished for,
he should not object.
The Earl of ABINGDON said that lie had petitions to
present, and he should be at the House at three o'clock to
present them.
The conversation here dropped, without any hour being
fixed.

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