The Sun.
London, England, 1831-06-23 00:00:00

proper feeling, must it not be admitted on the other band,
that, in a case where no absolute rule could be laid down.
the omission of the language did not show that the feeling
was wanting ? On the whole, the topic having been in-
troduced in the most proper manner by the Hen. Baronet
(Sir R. Inglis), and his Noble Friend having declared
his entire recognition of the general truths to which the
Hon. Barouet had referred, he (Mr. Grant) submitted to
the House that the discussion had better be discontinued.
Mr. W. PEEL thought it much better that the dis-
enssion should now be dropped, although he did not agree
with what had fallen from the Noble Lord the Chancellor
of the Exchequer.
The report was then brought up and read.
Mr. O'CONNELL, being prevented by indisposition on
the preceding evening from offering a few remarks on the
Address, would not now detain the House hut for a very
short time. Ile approved of the general spirit of the Ad-
dress, although he thought it objectionable in some parti-
cular pins. Ile was sorry that lie could find in it no
expression of sympathy with the struggling Poles, whom
he looked upon as at this moment the most interesting
psople in the world to every friend of mankind.—(Hear,
hear.) He hoped, however, that the Government would
take a more decided part respecting Belgium.—(Hear.)
That nation ought to be placed in the same condition which
she held iu n 90. She demanded no more—
(Hear), and
he thought the demand reasonable. 'He eulogised the
bravery and perseverance of the Belgians, notwithstand-
ing the dissensions which had been raised amongst them.
They had given another illustration of this lesson, that one
nation cannot continue without impunity to wrong and op-
press another. He hoped that the Government of this
country would benefit by the lesson with respect to a neigh-
bouring country connected with England, which a coutinu-
anceof bad Government would driveinto the arms of France,
or to the adoption of a republic, which would lead to a
French connexion. He denied that the distress prevail-
ing in Ireland was to he called famine. It was starvation
certainly; but then it was starvation, not from dearth of
food. hut in the midst of plenty.—(Hear.) He referred
to Galway, Newport, and other parts of Connanght, from
which, at the same time that thousands of people were
perishing from the want of food, numerous vessels were
daily sailing loaded with provisions.—(Hear.) Neither
could the inability of the people to obtain a portion of that
food be attributed to their indisposition to labour for it.
That they were not disinclined to industry was evident in
this country, where they cheerfully engaged in those em-
ployments which moat required physical strength and con-
tinued exertion.—(Hear.) Their want of means, there-
fore, to obtain the food which abounds before their eyes
must be attributed to mismanagement; but certainly not to
the mismanagement of Irishmen, hut to that of the Eng-
lish Government, whose rule for seven centuries had
brought them to that state, unparalleled in the history of
nations, of a people starving in the midst of plenty.—
(Hear.) For that he arraigned the English Government
as the sole cause.—(Hear.) He did not mean the present
Government, whom he believed to be disposed to do good
.to Ireland. But as an earnest of their intention, what did
ue find in the King's Speech? The utmost he held out
was the possibility of devising some means of relief.—
(Hear, and a laugh.) Was it then at this time still to be
left to a possibility. —(Hear, hear.) The late Govern-
ment, however, used to say that they could not interfere ;
it was impossible to do anything ; Ireland had always
been, and would always be, subject to periodical visita-
tions—that is, the periodical visitations of starvation in
the midst of plenty. —(Hear, hear.) Since the Union,
the law had been made stronger and stronger in favour of
the landlord against the tenant. Twenty-five statutes had
since been enacted to increase that power, and to enable
the landlord to enforce continually increasing rents. He
had long been opposed to poor laws. He still disap-
proved of them. But he now saw no other remedy for
the poor of Ireland but a compulsory provision for them.
—(Hear, hear.) Much had been said lately of the se-
curity of the Church in Ireland. Now, religion was a
good trade in most countries, but in Ireland it was parti.
cularly so.—(Hear, and laughter.) The poor of Ireland
supported two churches, one of which they believed to be
necessary to themselves, and they maintained it out of
their own poverty ; and the English Parliament said the
other was necessary for them, and accordingly taxed them
enormously for its support.—(Hear, " and no.") " Yes
(said he), you take from the poor man, often in time of
. scarcity, his tenth potato for that church.—(Hear, hear.)
Every man who heard him knew, that when :the revenues
of that church were transferred from one preceding it,
one-third of those revenues belonged to the poor. Why
should not that third be now restored to the poor.—
(Hear, bear.) To see that act of justice done might
reconcile the landlords to a compulsory ;provision..
There was another subject, which he.would not the
go into, as he should have a better opportstnity--he
meant the system of taxation by the Grand Jury,
which he called taxation without representation.
The explanation which had been given by an Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite rendered it unnecessary for him to vindi-
rate the Government from the charge of too great lenity
towards him. The Act under which he was prosecuted
had expired, and they could not obtain a judgment upon
him.—( Hear, hear.) In another respect he would say,
that they Lad taken a right view of the law.—(Hear.)
They had considered the existing laws sufficiently strong
to put down the disturbances, and the result had fully
borne them out. The country was now restored to peace.
He bad that day received information from Clare, upon
authority which could not be doubted, that the outrages
of the Terry Alt system had ceased.—(Hear, hear.) As
further proof of the return to peace and good order
,dirougliout Ireland, he was enabled to state, that in many
places the walls were being rebuilt by the peasantry, and
the hedges repaired, which were injured during the late
unhappy disturbances. Nay further, that the peasantry
in a variety of instances had compelled persons who ille-
gally possessed themselves of arms to return them to their
rightful sr:veers. It was evident from these fade, and
hum the past history of the country, that the people had
no desire to commit outrage so long as any hope was held
out to them that something would be done to ameliorate
their condition. He begged it to be distinctly understood
that in making these remarks nothing could be further
from his mind than Any. intention to embarrass his
Majesty's Government ; for, on the contrary, they had
his disinterested support, and lie thought them en-
titled
to the support of every independent Member, for
they had manifested not only an intention to reform the
abuses existing in our political system, but they had
practically set about the good work, and bad made a
beginning by their attack upon that vile boroughmonger-
ing traffic of which Ireland had for years been the
prey. Ireland was the prey of the worst species of the
the borough faction ; they treated it as their natural spoil;
but now there was a hope of better things-..indeed the
measure of Government was one for which the country
ought to feel deeply grateful, and to which he was glad to
think the public had responded as bee-erne them. The
Toriee, though a few yet were in the House, had been
scattered and discomfited—they had been defeated every-
where, from Cumberland to Cornwall, from Dover to
Liverpool, from St. Albans to Bristol—in every p irt of
the country the spirit of Reform had been triumphant,
and he heartily rejoiced at it. Though mot opposing the
Address, he had felt it to be his duty to make those few
observation,.

Colonel TORRENS, in reference to a remark which
had fallen from the last speaker, said he was perfectly ready
to admit that the operation of the tithe system was un-
equal, and in some cases injurious; but at the same time
he was by no means willing to subscribe to the inference
that it was therefore to be abolished. He wished on the
contrary, to see some equitable and satisfactory arrange-
ment made upon the subject, which, instead of allowing
the valuation to be made upon the gross produce, would
regulate it by the permanent annual value of the land.
Mr. SADLER was quite of opinion that one of the
most effectual remedies for the evils un,ler which Ireland
Was suffering would be to apply the surplus labour to the
cultivation of the surplus land. The land of Ireland was
rich and fertile beyond calculation ; the people were as
willing to work, and as anxious to obtain employment, as
any people upon the face of the globe; and what more
was
required ? Good land and willing hands required
only to be properly directed. Not that he thought it was
therefore to be'
wouldbe neee.:nrred, that m, provision for the poor
far from that, he bad even held it
to be sound prineiYole,:ti,
be
inat.property should sustain that po-
verty which must
moancsideut to any state of society;
but he could by no
agreethat the fund pointed out
by the Hon. and Learned Member
o
be at all sufficient for the purpose ; a
who spoke last would
cured, that if property of that n rl of this he felt as-
t wou
fromto every ere to he seized
upon, equal justice ought to be deal
man,
and that the property of the laity derivedt
tieal sources ought to be. seized upon, as well "
that
of
ecclesias-
tical
Clergy. Further, too, a tax upon absentees
_at t last
some arrangement that would reach their property, might
be advantageously resorted to. The Hon. Member t.i
en
went on to complain of the vagueness of that part of the
King's Speech which related to Ireland, regretting that the
Government had not been snore precise and definite with
respect
to their intentions upon the measures to be intro-
for improviog the condition of that part of the
United Kingdom.
Sir 11013ERT HARTY said, that whatever might be
done with respect to Ireland, he hoped there would be no
attempt to keep down the people of Ireland by force. lie
thought it important to retnuil,, that nn error mild be