The Sun.
London, England, 1836-07-12 00:00:00

suet tie should be justified in requiring each paper to take unstamped papers in their possession, without a guilty
out distinctive stamps, but as it appeared to he the wish of knowledge. It was believed out of jloors that this Bifi
a great many newspaper proprietors that such a measure was meant to be a gagging Bill ; he did not believe that,
should be adopted, it was determined that by an arrange- but he trusted it would not be persevered in, so objection-
?tient in the Stamp-office, any person who should wish a able as it was felt to be. It was impossible for any one to
distinct stamp for his paper should be enabled to procure vote for the clause without feeling that he was voting for
it. He hoped, by this means, that all parties would be sa- that which would violate every principle of justice.
tisfled.—(Hear!) Mr. VILLIERS (we believe) ureed on the Right-Hon.
Mr. LEADER hoped that until better means for arrie. Gentleman the consideration, that when laws ran counter
ing at a correct conclusion were devised, no Member would to the public feeling, they became a dead letter. The pro-
think of calling for a Newspaper Stamp Return. • posed law was opposed to the feeling of the country ; it
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ad- was considered that its object was rather to suppress intel-
mitted that under the present system of issuing Stamps, ligence than to facilitate the collection of the revenue. Any
the public had no means of forming a correct judgment as one might go and place in the poor man's cottage an un-
to the condition of each paper ; but at the same time he stamped paper, and thus render him liable to a heavy pe-
doubted whether, as it was not necessary for the purposes nalty, When a law was capable of so much mischief; the
of the revenue that it should be ascertained to what papers people would be very scrupulous in applying it.
Stamps were issued, it was in his power to propose a remedy The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had
for the evil. In a measure particularly relating to revenue looked in the clause iii the original Act now before him,
lie did not see the justice of imposing on parties against and that provided that a person having in his possession a
their will, any restriction to which they might object. He Newspaper not daly stamped was subject, as in this Bill, to
thought it was quite right to allow all parties who wished a twenty pounds penalty. The difference between the
for distinctive Stamps to have them ;- but he certainly two clauses was this. The words in the 38th of George
should be going beyond his jurisdiction were he to make an 111., were having " knowingly and wilfully" an Unstarnped
attempt to compel those who were content with the present Paper in his possession. At present the great distribution
`system to depart from it. of Unstamped Papers did not take place under any act of
Lord SAND ON disagreed with the Right Hon. Gen • sale ; they were distributed at public-houses. If ,they al-
tlemau the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He contended lowed the possession of these Papers to be free from penalty
that a distinctive stamp, if made voluntary, would not be there would be an end to the penalty in other cases, because
productive of any good. The paper that did not adopt they would not be able to prove the fact of sale ; that
it would have an Unfair advantage, as far as public impres- would be evaded, and thus the practice would continue
sion went, over that which did. It was his opinion it unabated. He had no objection to insert in this clause
should be made compulsory, or not at all attempted. He the very words he found in the other Act, namely, " know-
quite agreed that in the present state of the Newspaper ingly and wilfully," because he believed that with this al-
Stamp arrangements, no returns should be called for, inns- teration the Act would afford the means of meeting the
much as they were calculated totally to mislead the public. cases to which he had alluded.
The- CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had Mr. JERVIS asked whether the power was to be re-
always opposed the production of the Newspaper Stamp tained which the Bill gave to peace-officers ?
returns ;in the first place, because he saw no Parlia- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
rnentary grounds for calling for them ; and secondly, from the proposed Bill was a limitation of the present Act in
the knowledge that, under the present arrangement, they that respect. The five hundred cases of prosecution of
could not impart to the public any thing like a correct idea which there was a return before the Heuse, were not at
of the circulation of each Newspaper. It was notorious the instance of peace officers, but common informers.
that the present arrangement enabled one paper to take Mr. ROBINSON said the same pressure which induced
cult stamps for several, and consequently to take credit to the Government to give up the old duty would force them
itself for a circulation considerably beyond its actual one. to abandon the penny duty.
He hoped, however, that under the new arrangement this The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
this defect would be obviated. As regarded those papers that the effect of the clause, as he proposed to alter it,
Which should adopt the distinctive stamp, it was evident would be, as far as regarded persons having unstamped
the new system must prove effective ; and as the Bill con- papers in their possession, to leave the law, as he found it.
tained a clause prohibiting any editor or proprietor of a He proposed to take the words in the statute of 38th
Paper, under a heavy penalty, from procuring stamps ex- Geo. 111. ; those words were " knowingly and wilfully ;"
cept from the distributor of stamps at Somerset-house, he and he proposed further to omit the words to which ob-
entertained great hopes that all future returns would give jection had been made. This would throw the onus of
very nearly, if not altogether, and for the first time, the proving the offence on the party making the charge.
correct circulation of each paper. Mr. AGLIONBY suggested, the addition to the words
Mr. PRYME thought there was a very strong objection " knowingly and wilfully," of the words " without sufficient
to the clause prohibiting editors of Newspapers from pro- excuse."
curing stamps except from the proper distributor. It often The ATTORNEY-GENERAL observed that "know-
occurred that in consequence of an accidental mistake or ingly" was to be interpreted persons taking the paper know-
omission, a paper had not in its office a sufficient number ing that it,was not stamped, and " wilfully" with an intention
of stamps for a pressing publication, and was obliged to to violate the law. The clause, as-amended, was agreed to.
borrow of another establishment. It was well known that Mr. O'CONNELL observed, with respect to clause
papers of different politics often so accommodated each 177, relating to the discovering of proprietors, printers, or
other. Now if this custom were restrained, great injury publishers of Newspapers, that those who wrote in News-
might be done to property. -He should, therefore, when papers ought to be made responsible. If the clause were
the clause in question came under consideration, mac that so worded he should support it.
its operation should not extend to'parties borrowing stamps Mr. WAKLEY observed, that men who wrote scandal
for temporary convenience. ought to be made known. No man ought to be permitted
Mr. ROBINSON thought it would be an excellent to publish that which he would not dare to avow. The
plan to register all the proprietors of Newspapers, as well stateof the Press at the present moment was scandalous ;
the original as those who should come into the concern for there were no means now of ascertaining the author of
by transfer, and that such registry should take place that which was injurious to the character of another.
periodically. The only objection to such a proposi- Clause agreed to.
tion Was the cumbrous nature of the machinery which Mr. PRYME objected to clause 178, empowering Com. would be requisite, when the present extent of the missioners to refuse Stamped Papers to persons in arrear
press was considered, and the increase likely to re. for Stamp Duty. He moved, " That from line 13 to the
suit from the reduction of the duty. Upon the cowl- end of the clause be struck out." try press the proposition would obviously operate with The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER de-
much disadvantage and inconvenience. It would be very fended the clause, on the ground that, if persons chose to
easy for a London Newspaper\ to send in the required give credit for that which ought at once to be paid, they
registry, but in the case of a newspaper establishment at did so at their own risk.
Birmingham, Manchester, or Liverpool, great expense and The Gallery was then cleared for a division, but none
trouble would be occasioned by the necessity of the entire took place, and the clause was agreed to.
proprietors registering their names at Somerset-house. The Clause 179 having also been agreed to, the House re-
' adoption of the proposition would likewise oceesion great sumed.
expense, in the way of additional clerks and officers, It The other Orders of the Day was then disposed of, and
would also considerably check the establishment of news- the House adjourned at one o'clock.
papers. This, however, he did not regret or complain of,
for he thought that the publication of papers by joint-stock
',companies, with shares as low as 5/. each, was not likely to
improve either the character of the public press, or the mo-
rals of the people.
The clause was then agreed to, as were also, after some
conversation, the several clauses up to 171 inclusive.
UPon.the 172 d clause, which enacts that a penalty of a
hundred, pounds shall be inflicted on any printer or pub-
lisher
.eino does not print at the end of the newspaper his
saaiw'e'an end surname, and place of abode, with a true de-
pcnted _
aof the.house or building, in which the paper is
'.,,..wh0
}or Prints any false name, description, &c.;
KLE
and pro objected to the amount of the penalty,
to! tli p_9.sad that it should be reduced to 101. He put it
old c' 'fight
Ron. Gentleman, whether, in consolidating
Actsmore of Parliament, they ought to introduce provisions
_severe than those which had already existed ?
_T The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER main-
tained the the necessity of the penalty, in order to deter from
comm'sssion of fraud. Were it not for such a penalty
thee printer and publisher of a newspaper might assume the
tame and residence of the Hon. Gentleman himself,
After a few words from the ATTORNEY-GENERAL
the clause was agreed to.
The 173 d and 174th clauses were agreed to.
Upon ,the 175th clause, imposing penalties on persons
printing, publishing, and selling Newspapers not duly
stamped,
An Hole. 'MEMBER, whose name we could not learn,
objected to the severity of the enactment.
The •CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re-
presented the futility of imposing a duty, and then tbitli-
holding the means of enforcing the payment of that duty
y puniibing the persons who were guilty of violating
the law.
Mr. WAKLEY said the people had a right to a free
political Press, unfettered by any stamp whatever.
Dr. BOWRING wished to ask his Majesty's Govern-
retort whether the struggle in svhich they were engaging
with the unstamped Press was worth their while ? The
clause was calculated to bring ruin upon hundreds of per-
sons. Was it a question whether or not the revenue could
afford to lose the small sum which the duty would produce ?
Happily, they had evidence that it could. The people im-
plored the Legislature to repeal the duty. He had never
known a subject on' which the feelings of the people were
more excited. The people entreated that they might have
free access -to publicatiOns diffusing political knowledge ;
and be trusted the House would respond to the wish. He
into the present measure.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob-
served, that the question of a penny duty had been de-
terinined. He maintained that he was justified in impos-
ingthe a duty of a penny, because it was balanced by giving
after
peanpaecrstinfree circulation throughout the land. But,
the Honourallthat there should be a duty. how could
Honourable Gentleman oppose a clause imposing
penalties upon the violation of the law ? They were
not then reasoning e
on the 'expediency of reducing or
removing the Stamp Duty.
posines a duty of a They had determined on im-
Penny ; and it would be doing great
injustice to those who obeyed the law if they did not inflict
penalties on.those who disobeyed the law. As to the pro-
secutions which bad already taken place, ninety-nine out
of a hundred were carried on by common informers. Now,
the present law would place all such prosecutions. in the
the hands of Government. It was very odd, it was one of
those contingencies which he hoped would frequently recur,
but, although the whole object of the Bill was to relieve
the press by the reduction of the duty, the measure was
stigmatized as a fetter and restriction of the Press. It
Was intended to be a measure of benefit, and it was charac-
terized as a measure of injury. If the law were left as it
give those who printed unstamped
stood at present, it would
pipa.oers, and thereby violated the Act, an advantage over
those who printed -stamped papers and obeyed the Act.
Le Lad never met with a single person acquainted with
the subject who was not of opinion that a free circulation
if Papers throughout . the country was a greater benefit to
..e Press than the imposition of a duty of a penny was an
!"j"rY. If he were not provided with the means of punish-
ing the violation of the law, it would be in vain to pass the
Present Bill.
Mr. WALLACE would not encourage those who were
disposed :to disobey the law.
Art- C. BULLER particularly objected to the penalty
On any person sending or carrying an Unstamped News.
Paper, The Hon. and Learned Gentleman moved the
omission from the clause of the words which would have
the effect of inflicting a penalty on parties who had an-Un-
st:upped Newspaper in their possession.
Mr. PRYME thought it objectionable to inflict the pe-
nalty for having an Unstamped Paper in possession. He
asked whether the existing law gave such a power?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER 'begged
t° ask whether any Hon. Gentleman believed the law
could b e enforced without the power to seize the Article in
possession ?
Mr. JERVIS said the Bill gave an alarming p—a
,povver too. great for the mere object of facilitating owerthe mi-
lee tion of the revenue
Mr. O'CONNELL. said this elause would give a greater
p4voiii%.ess•ri eor than was Possessed for the collection of the revenue
the duty was four times as high as it wee now. Every
till n plight to be supposed innocent till guilt
%yea proved ;
the effect of this clause would be to put the persoo an-
'tuk'zi to the proof of his innocence. Persons might have

ROUSE OF LORDS, JULY 11.

The Loan CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack
at five o'clock.
Lord KENYON presented a petition from the Parish
Clerk of Marylebone, against the Marriage Registration
Bill.

The Bishop of EXETER presented similar petitions
from the Parish Clerks of Hereford.
[During the time the Right Rev. Bishops were present-
ing their petitions, the Duke of WELLINGTON entered the
House for the first time since his accident. The Noble
Duke walked extremelj lame.l
RAILWAYS.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved that
Rennie's Brighton Railway Bill should be referred to the
Committee now sitting upon the other competing lines of
the Brighton Railway.
The Duke of RICHMOND objected to it. That
Committee had already sat four days, and if other lines
were to be, referred to it, the termination of its sittings
would be extended to an indefinite period.
After some discussion the Bill was referred.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented several
petitions in favour of the South Durham Railway Bill.
Several other Noble Lords presented similar petitions.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE then moved the
second reading of the South Durham Railway Bill.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY opposed the second
reading of the Bill. He did so on account of the great
detriment that it would cause to an estate of his,
on which he had expended, within the last few years, no
less a sum than , 80,0001. He did not believe the
Bill was at all likely to be of any public benefit ; if he
thought it would, he would be the last man in the world to
oppose it, though it; object was to strike at his very exist-
ence.—(Hear.) To discuss the merits of the Bill before a
Cohunittee would be attended with great inconvenience to
him, and ho therefore would move that the Bill should be
read a second time that day three months.

Lord HOWDEN 6tipp-orted the second reading of the

The Marquis of CLANRICAIIDE trusted the House
wotlld adopt his motion. He did not now consider himself
bound, though he had moved the second reading of the
Bill, to go into its details ; but if the Noble Marquis (Lon-
donderry) felt he should be injured by it, the same course
must be adoptad with respect to him that was taken with
respect to othei individuals ; he must prove that injury be-
fore a Committee.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE opposed the second reading
the Bill.

The House then divided, when there appeared—. ,
For the second reading, contents l9
Against it, not contents
t. 51
. Majority against the Bill

The Archbishop of CANTERBURY presented peti-
tions against the Marriage Registration Bill from the
Deanery of Essex, and other places. ,
Lord LYNDHURST presented a petition from the Six
Clerks of the Court of Chancery, in Ireland, in favour of
the Bill introduced by the Lord Chancellor, to amend the
practice of the Court of Chancery. The petitioners also
prayed for compensation.
The Bishop of LL A.ND A IT presented petitions against
the Registration of 11larriages anti Births' Bill.

Lord WYNFORD presented 4 petition from Font
against the Poor Law Amendment Act.
The Earl of OLENGALL presented a petition from
the spirit-dealers of DuLilo against the Excise License
Bill.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a peti-
tion from the parish clerks of Newcastle-upon-Tyne against
the Registration of Birtha and Marriages Bill.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented. a petition
from Queen's county, praying the House to consider the
subject of the Irish Municipal Corporations Bill.
The Earl of ABERDEEN presented a petition from
Aberdeen) in favour of the Scotch Universities Bill. Also
a petition from Banff, in favour of the amendments to the
Irish Corporations Bill.

The LORD CHANCELLOR ,presented a petition,
signed hi 2 persons in the King's Bench, praying the
House to pass a Bill for the abolition of imprisonment for
debt.

IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, in moving the second
reading of this j3jl4 said that their Lordships should re-.
lect that, though a part pf the Bill related to the abo-
fitioil of imprisonment for debt, that was not the sole
object whi4 the Bill sought to obtain, fie had never
felt that exclusive feeling which some persons had
professed on the subject of imprisonment fur debt
but, .4 considering the question, he had always endear
voured to asegrt.a.in how far it was possible to secure
to creditors the PaYtue4t 9f that which was justly tine to
then. The ground on which he strprp to obtain their Lord-
,- -de present measure was, that he
ships' arTrablition t.
thought it
,attained 11,Cfold object of giving u letter
'security to the creditor and a rucra ready moans pf rem-
w.e.ring debts, and at the same time relieved those who
were
suffering under the pressure which
the present s:4,c
hif Jr threw upon them. 'rue ge-
neral subject Was 011. c .
Tars had engaged
the ...itp..ntion of the other on,pe -IS
,
and
in
183-) a C0mr..4,-40 had made a itePoit.' "Ire was' aware
that in the last session pwlianient a Bill, intended to
carry into effect the recommendations of the Report, had
been pent up from the House orC4MmO. fiv
r