The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-07 00:00:00

N'

~ t

the curreney--'.
complaints, was it
ht 'be had recourse
ley were issued,
definitely. Peace
ver for it ? The
re it ; and if the
'at art were we to
it was not likely'
at it could be car-
fatal facilities of
k Restriction -Act
ould, fall 40 or 50
61. at prevent, and
liversal suffrage of
Temiser here sud-
use by saying that
-erl would prevent
se progress of the
ess, with greater
s which be enter-

to the following

,pDsite, Inure par-
just sat down, frr

us in a new !nisi-
.lz the Reformers
ry argument with
le Anti .-Reformeri
speculative differ-
plan or Opinion,
r. Canning's coo-
7orne the peculiar
that which is a
?: to acknowledge
heir strength, frn•
Anti Reformer of
to by sonic

a 'l'ors-,"

li'. own, of which
a nothing, but of
le principal object
on of Parliament.
ttice to the lion,
e same horror of
Ito it* principle,
'ablaut in others,
titerlion indeeel,

I am not one
denten as happen
itficult subject are
aersonal motives ;
bat high-minded
)U$ times, beta
of existing abuses,
; their property
tend for in, that
taking n much
if they declared
ie opponents of
assume the title
ating the cause
•re convinced, as
to be, that those
our Constitution
e wisest Legisla-
ist intelligent 1:m-
-illing t t contpru.
mtge. But it is
ten have so very
dispute. I say
hat Constitution
described. It is
es nf..the defects
uve palliated and
to praise or at-
() have admired
on, have always
ake it—a mixed
entrusted wilt
da, exercising its
House of Cons-
!. I know, Sir,
t have furnished
des ; but if any
pirited eloquent*
e fmhjects, it was
ignorance I must
Mistaking the
rtugal. when the
Jr of France, he
; there very un-
leard the Noble
rtion of modern
nee, .during the
arbons ueerf
•upted confusion.
to of the Restn-
en commerce, its
T-and let him
• of Martignac,
the prospetity
its resources,
ligenue—let hint
which the free
e in the absolute
I I think he will
similar circum-
thne, made the
did under that
which the Noble
The Hon.
mixed Govern-
.eset ibe our own
• the other two
them ; and they

i•rn examples--
House of Corn-
did destroy
aged a war, in
popular war)
the Hon: Gen-
in an irror: If
ting tte reelings
were others, it
erely the repre-
erests and their
hat that power
es of the com-
nto co'li*ion, to
two or twenty.
utional doctrine
rs are the here-
e are their re-
fs all represent
.11 ruppnrted by
aiblic opinion ;
t not necessary-

be oueWt: us
hat that public
ne from theory
ask whether we
prosperity, and
cm under which
'rely no floe.
),istry as this ;
which sup-
' advantage, no
cld be in favour
buses that have
rly in favour of
ronet gained so
crew up to pre-
ched police, its
n strength and
the tyrannical
member, under

But are thotc
—are those eir-
impediments to
only causes of
peurd that our
at our philoso-
of the world,
[lion, and our
relit ; but does
all this to one
dence has from
nt to represent
, or a hundred
an to say that
ontrary, while

our national
advanced our
that the one
vere alno)st as
debt.—
to exaggerate,
1 %, ill take ti e
!man's hands,
imperfections
101 l the House
,8 been, to use
he whole has
e. But let us
.neans: if the
iion, that the
been a bar-

• tier against the encroathments and expenees of the Clow
,--that it has to a certain degree been a protection to th,
rights and liberties of the: people, I am sure I am not 4,
dined to dispute the assertion. But let us remember the
in this s'nse of the term the present Council of Distil:
works well, the ancient Parliament of Paris " works,
vrell,'! even- Barebone's Parliament (4 worked well,". aro'
• Was found too independent for Oliver Cromwell. 1
• would be impossible to choose, by any means whatsoever.
a certain number of persons out of a nation without then.
• being connected in some degree with the great body o•
the persons they were chosen from. But the object of all
good Government is to connect the interest of the go-
vernors as close:y as possible with that of the governed
and we have not to consider whether this he not in a eer-
- lain degree connected with the community et large, hut
• Whether we cannot knit and unite the two more closely
and inseparably together. The question is not whether this
House of Co smone, works tolerably well, l.ut whether we
• cannot have a'House of Commons that will work better ; and
really, when I look:at our villages, and see age going to
the work house, and youth to the g diows—when 1 look a'
• our colonies, in which slavery is still found, I cannot say
that it works well. The Hon. Gentleman has alluded to
the changes which have been ntede in other countries :
and certainly when a change is too sudden and too violent,
when the most intelligent but. by far the smallest number
of a community rashly substitute a new Governrreat,
(better adapted to their own wants and wishes perhaps)
for an old one, which, however, is still dear to the habits
and the recollections of the people, the change is not likely
to be beneficial. Such a change was formerly made'irt
France, where liberty, for want of being properly under.
stood, assumed the titernate charac`er of terror and
licentiousness. The second was more recently the case in
Spain and in Portugal, where a modern constitution, has
tily adopted, was rot able to stand again, t an ancient de-
spotism th rt had not ceased to he loved. But if these
ere cases which render a change too violent and sudden,
ran that be said to be the case with us ? Can this change
• be said to conic unpremeditatedly before a people by whom
it his been agitated for upwards of a century, and to
whom it was presented in almost the same shape as at
present about thirty years ago ? Is it then the plan of a
few, to Which the many are ill prepared and disposed ? 1
think I can appeal to the Hon. Members who for the first
• time take their seats in this House-1 think I can appeal
to the melancholy shades still hovering over yonder-
benches of the Hon. Gentlemen who have departed from
itn—as an evidence of the fact, that whatever this change
• way be,. it has, at all events, the sanction of the great
majority of this country.. But it is singular enough, that
• the same Hon. Gentlemen who contend that the change it
- too sudden or too violent, maintain also that it is not
sustden and violent enough : the angry declaimers against
Governments of theory, the enthusiastic admirers of our ano-
inalous Constitution, find fault with his Majesty's Mini-
sters for not having lopped off all these anomalies at once-
- for not having divided England into so many municipal
departments—for not having constituted so many elec-
tore! colleges. If we are to have a change say they, in
God's name let us have such a change as this. The Hon.
Gentlemen have adopted their opinions wi:h too much
facility to have looked very accurately into their founda-
tion, or they would have found that many of the same
anomalies exist in the present Constitution of France
which the Hon. Gentlemen think that such a Constitution
would necessarily abolisin But b. fore I answer this ar-
gument seriously, let me know whether the Hon. Gen-
- ttemen are in earnest. If they are, let them coins for-
• ward' and propose that a National Assembly should be
convened, and a new Constitution given to the country;
but if that which they se' in to call for is that which in
• reality they most shrink from. then will they do well to
remember that what is urged inconsiderately by them
today, may be raga d considerately against them to-mor-
row ; ani that it will he frou the arsenals of those who
stand here the ()geodes!' of the Ili itish Constitution. that
its enemies will take their weapons to destroy it.—(Hear.)
But whatever inconsistencies there may be in the argu-
ments of the Hon. Gentlemen, they are, at all events, con-
sistent in their conclusions. Whether this change he too
sudden and violent, or whether it he not sudden and vio-
lent enough, it is equally certain that great calamities are
to ensue from it. Would not any one who heard the
Hon. Gentlemen imagine that this debt was due to five
or six wealthy aristocrats, whose interest it was the ob-
ject of the middling classes to promote? Is this the
case? So far from it, this species of property is di-
sided into such small proportions, that if the interest of
those who derive their income from the public funds
were taken at an average, it would amount to about 1001.
per. annum. So that those persons whom the Hon.
• Gentlemen suspect as likely to destroy this species of
property, are, singularly enough, the very persons
to whom it belongs..—(Hear, hear, hear.) But I
am aware that even if I could persuade the Ho-
nourable Gentlemen that the national debt is sale,
they would still say that the Church and the at istocracy
are so unpopular, that an adequate representation of the
people Would immediately proceed to destroy both. This
reproach, coming from friends, is certainly severe, more
• especially when we remember, that if there are any senti-
ments deeply grafted into society, they are reverence for
the- Ministers of religion, and respect for those who unite
hereditary rank with large possessions. Nor is there any
• example in history of the one being despised, or the other
• detested, but through their own crime and misconduct.
• if the Church and the aristocracy bad really lost the affec-
tion of the people, instead of vainly endeavouring to pre-
vent their fall, we ahould rather rejoice at having found a
legal form for affecting it.—(Hear, and " oh.") But I
do not think things are yet gone so far ; and I should like
to know who are the best friends of this Caine Church and
at istocracy—such pen sons plead their unpopularity as an
excuse for the maintenance of their obnoxious privileges, or
• those who would give them populatity as the means to
• preserve their. power ? When an ancient city decreed that
. there should be no walls for its defence, did it mean to ex-
pose itself thereby to the insolence or violence of its ene-
miss? No, Sir, the Legislator knew, and he wished his
fellow-citizens to understand, that the real ramparts of a
State are the valour and the virtue of its citizens.
" Away," said he, " with those idle barriers, which tnay
• serve to delude ,you into security, hut which cannot pro-
. trot you from danger." So, Sir, say we, away with those
•• rotten defences which the progress of intelligence has ren-
d' red untenable: let not the Church or the aristocracy
suppose that it is beneath the worn-out works of past
times that they can stand secure, if their present services
do not sanction their ancient origin. Let them know—l
wish them to know.--.the real nature of the prestige which
surrounds them with inviolability • to-day, but which the
narrow-minded bigotry of the one, the ignorance and party
• zeal of the other, may weaken—annihilate to-morrow.—
(Hear.) Let them know, that their only protection is
• public opinion ; and that, if they wish to stand secure, they
• must he guarded by a respect for their character, and a
• senseof their utility. But the Hon. Gentleman asks if we are
certain of stopping here in the course we are pursuing ?
Heaven forbid that we should be certain of stopping any-
where in the course of improvement. Heaven forbid that
we should he certain that at. this, or any time, the pro-
gress of civilization should cease, or civilization fail to be
attended by its just results. I, at all events, do not pre-
sume to think that we can legislate for eternity. All that
we can pretend to by means of the present measure is,
that it seems likely to satisfy the principal wants of the
present epoch. To pretend to an absolute authority over
the future would, indeed, be to adopt the notions of the
lion. Gentleman, who would make us the blind slaves of
the past ; and indeed, Sir, it is not so touch for the pecu-
liar merits, as fur the happy principle of the Bill before
us, that in turning from the obscurity of those days which
I do trust are set for eve:, I accept this measure as the
promise of a brighter dawn. We are at length obtaining,
in a peaceful manner, a new charter, as precious as that
me which our fathers formerly conquered at the point of
the sword. But there is this d fference between our an-
cestors arid ourselves—they fought for the liberties of the
people as the inheritance of the past—we assert them as
the prerogative of the present.--( Hear, hear.) They de-
manded the record of tradition—we claim the consequence
of improvement. At length our claim is allowed ; but
how guest have been the doubts and difficulties through
which me have struggled to enforce it. Through many a
long year were those principles denounced as theories by
• yonder Hon. Gentlemen, which the voice of the country
now unanimously proclaims to be truth. Thus many a
long year did the Hon. Gentlemen beside me vainly de-
- vlint's in despite of those denunciations, that there would
come a time when we should no longer suffer bad timings,
. because our ancestors had suffered worse—that there would
come a time ;when the hoary head of inveterate abuse
• would
m neither claim reverence nor obtain protection. The
f has come ;it has come slowly, but it has come ; ren-
dering fur ever memorable the reign of our gracious Sove-
reign, whose name is of happy augury in the annals of
this country ; anti as it has hitherto been glorious by our
escape from bigotry, it will now be celebrated for our de-
..liverance from corruption,—(The Hon. Member sat down
amidst•loutf cheers )
Lord VALLETORT said, the Noble Lolrd(Altliorp)
had assured the House last night that the Aristocracy
would lose nothing under the new system, unless they
failed to profit by the advantages of property and station,
or grossly misconducted themselves. He, for one, doubted
much the accuracy of the views of the Noble Lot d on that
riot, and, he cot fessed he saw much to alarm him for the
Safety of the tights and privileges of the Aristocracy in the

eveuts which Lad alreitly taken place.—(Hear.)
n•it stand there to contend that these things happened in

ordinary times, fir without the use of more than ordinary
influence. Manoeuvres and artifices had been
resorted to, which. in ordinary times, would not ever have

been tolerated.—(Hear, hear.) If no other than ordinary
means had been used, the result of the election 'would
have been very different in the county with which he was
connected, and that able and patriotic gentleman (Sir R
Vyvyan) who had represented it in the last Parliament
vould have still represented it at that moment.--(Hear.)
Let them not suppose, however, that the county of Corn-
wall was to be set down as decidedly favourable to Reform
because it had rejected that Hon. Baronet and returned
his opponent by a large majority. If all wire excluded
from the lists of the majority who came to the hustings
with the conviction that the success of the Reform Bi
would demolish the tithe system—(Hear, hear)—if all
tee( e excluded from the majority who came to vote for the
Reform candidate, with the impression that it would terel
to get rid of all taxes—(llen-, hear)—if all were excluded
who came to the hustings under an improper use of the
King's name—(Hear, hear)—and who were led to tielieve
that by sinpportieg the Him. B tronet and him (Lord Val
letort), awl those who professed an attachment to the
institutions of their country, they were showing their dis-
loyalty to the C.own—(Chcers)—if all were excluded wit'
came utuli-r expectations which are never realised, an
promises . never to be fulfilled---( Hear, heat )—he would
ass' ;t boldly in his place in tl at House, that Sir
Richard Vyvyan would at that moment betl,e Member for
the county of Cornwall. He gave the Noble Lord
(Althorn) and hiscolleagues all credit fer the sincerity of
their opinions and ties integrity of their motives; but he
felt bound to say at the same time, that it; his bumble
opinion, by the Bill then befere the House, they were en-
dangering the peace and overturning the pro.perity of the
country.—(hear, hear.) With regard to the question of

Reform, it was a common ease with the Reformers to ash

those opposed to their plin of Reform, what plan they
would he dispo.ed to support. ? It was not for I,im to
take en himself to propose any specific plan of Reform,

but he would state the principles which must form the

foumlation of t•w plan of Reform to which he could give
his ossent. He wool& say then, that the House of Com-
mons must continue to possess the power of controlling

the passing will of the people, and that it had no greater
power at the present moment, was evident from the effects
which had followeJ the late dissolution. To that dis-.

solution he appealed in support of the far.'. They were
told that the House must carefully examine all the mea-

sures which it allowed to pass into a law. Here was a
plan of Rh-form which requirtd greater examination and
more mature consideration than any ever submitted to
Parliament, and was it likely to he examined and dis-

cussed with an attention equal to its importance ?
(Loud cries of " Hear.") He belieVed, on the contrary,
that if the discussion was left solely in the hands of those
who were sent to that House for no other purpose than to
deliberate on the merits of the Bill, these per,ons would
pass it without any examination whatever.—(heir, heare)
They were told, within and out of doors, that if the Lords
attempted to exercise their privileges, they would firing
about a ri volution—at least that was the language of some
of the Members, and one Member had last night done as
much ae any individual could do to impress the House
and the country with the necessity of that conclusion.—
(Hear.) He would advert, too, to another point, which
he did not think had yet been touched on in the discus-
sions on the Bill. He thought that the Ministerial plan
of Reform would cripple one of the most important func-
tions of the Crown—the exercise of its prerogative in the
choice of its Ministers.--(Hear, heir.) Ile thought this
was no idle fear. In what manner were the Ministers to
be elected after the passing of the Bill? He would ask
where was the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, or
was it necessary that such a Minister should be repre-
sented in that House ? He supposed they were to wait
until the Noble Lord was returned for some of the popular
places which received their franchise from the Bill. He
would conciude by avowing his opposition to the present
Bill, although he hoped that the long-declared wishes of
the country on the subject of Reform would not long be
del ryed.—(Heir, hear, from the Ministerial benches.)
The Noble Lord and his colleagues expressed great exulta-
tion at this; would tell them what was the real state
of the case. The party opposed to him could have con-
tinued the contest for a long time, and have granted ac-
cording to their own views that degree of Reform which
their experience showed them was desirable, bed not the
Noble'Lord and his party raised a force in their rear.
Mr. STRICKLAND, after adverting to the state of
Ireland, and to the absolute necessity of granting the
people some great measure of peace, union, and concilia-
tien, declared his conviction that they wished for no change
which could hear- the slightest appearance of revolution.
The people, as far as he had an opportunity of learning
their sentiments, desired a restoration of their ancient
rights of popular election, but they desired no more. It
had been said in the course of those discussions, that the
new Members were compelled to give pledges to support
the Bill and nothing but the Bill. No such pledge had
been exacted from him. Among the thousands he had
canvassed, no man had asked him for such a pledge, and
he came as free into that House to express his opinion of
the Bill as any of the Members he saw around him. Al-
though one of the Members for the great county of York,
which be might more properly call a province of England,
he was yet as free to state his opinions, and to take ohjec-
thins to the Bill, as the Hon. Member opposite (Sir C.
Wetherell), who represented a few decayed cottages at
Boroughbridge, in a corner of the same county. With
respect to the. Bill, he might say, that although be ap-
proved of the disfranchising clauses, he thought it abso-
lutely necessary to give representation to the large towns,
yet there were other parts of it to which he could not
quite reconcile himself, and which he might say did not
go far enough.—(Hear, and a laugh.) If the Bill was
intended to produce a final settlement cf the question of a
Reform in the representation, he would ask how that could
lie expected, when the county of Nottingham, with only
196,000 inhabitants was to have its representation dou-
bled, while the great province of York was to have an
addition of only six Members.—(llear, hear.) Advert-
ing to another, although a minor point, and one for which
he was not inclined to oppose the whole Bill, he must say
he could not reconcile te himself the propriety of
a division of the counties.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He had
always been much disgusted by seeing the bailiffs of
Noblemen and men of property driving up herds of
tenants to the hustings, who were, if questioned on the
subject, seldom able to tell even the name of the candidate
for whom they were to vote. Now, be confessed, he was
much afraid that the division of the counties would tend
to perpetuate this system, and that, by seeking to make
the elections too easy, they would soon hear much more of
nomination counties.—(llear, hear.) The Hon. Member
then proceeded to comment on the changes of opinion
among public men, and observed, that the Ministry, which
so triumphantly io one Session refused all concession to
the Roman Catholics, and referred so boldly to the Coro-
nation Oath, had unanimously agreed to unqualified con-
cession in the succeeding Session. They had then, how-
ever, declared it to be their determination to r eeist all other
changes. "Thus far shalt thou go, and no farther," was
their motto. A single word against Reform proved, in a
short time destructive to the Ministry ; and now, as if to
prove the truth of the assertion, that truth is stronger
than fiction, the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for
Tatnicorth (Sir R. Peel), who refused the smallest possible
Reform—who set himself decidedly against even the
transfer to a great town like Birmingham of the forfeited
franchise of a close, decayed, and corrupted borough, has
avowed himself a Parliamentary Refirrmer.—( Hear.)
Under such circumstances, and with an opposition of such
a nature as that which now presented itself, he trusted the
Government would persevere in their course, and by re-
forming the representation of that House, confer a lasting
benefit or: their country.—( Hear.)
Sir C. WETHERELL claimed for himself, as Member
for the cottages of Boroughhridge, as great a share of in-
dependence as the Hon. Member who had represented, as
lie had told them, the great province of York. The
borough he represented formed but a speck in that province,
and although he did not hold of the Hon. Member, his
Lord, as .he must call him by villenage, or any feudal
tenure, still he would tender to him his most respectful re-
cognition of provincial superiority. The lion. Member
had illustrated his independence by observing that be came
into Parliament as unfettered as the Member for Borough-
bridge. Now if at any time the Member for one of the
provinces taunted the Member a borough with his want
of independence, the Igembi r fur the borough would have
a right to reciprocate, according to the confession of the
Member for York. Premising, then, that he was as little
in oinculis as any Member of that House, he would now
!,roeeed to make some few observations on the question of
Reform. In the last Parliament he had declared himself
hostile to the Reform Bill, and he must say, that all his
objections were since that period by many degrees con-
firmed ; and his judgment was strengthened by consider-
ation in reprobating its principle, and condemning all its
details.—(Hear, hear.) The general subject matter of
!he Bill involved a great many Constitutional and ele-
mental principles; but he would confine himself to two.
the disfranchisement of the boroughs, and the extension of
the right of representation. By the first, 154 seats were
decanted, if he might so express himself, to 154 other
•
places. ( A laugh.) The corks were to fly out of 154 hottlts,
Intl their contents to be poured into 154 now recipients.

By the next -pLin, the eleztive -franchise was to be tiike9
o
away from all who hail held it by what is called persond
fieedom, and to be given to, 10/. householders. These
were the two main principles of the Bill; and to these he
proposed to adthess himself. lie had been charged with

using too strong I.ingoage When he cared the disfranchise
ment a corporation robbery; but if any friend of the 11.11

. _
. -
could find
.him a better, he would, in academical lan2uw,

accept it, and sutf,r himself to he plucked.--(A laugh.)
His Hon. and Learned Friend opposite, whom he a!ways

heard with great pleasure, had charged the opponent. 4 of
the measure with terming the elective franchise a property.
He (Sir C. Wetherell) had never to called it. Bat a!-
though it was not property, in the usufructuary sense of
the word, it was property according to the general rules
:)), which prwcrty was constituted and tzuarded. It was
so recognized by a clause in tlagna Charta, which l
would pres?litly read to the House. It was so recogniz,t,'
by the law of the land. It was held by Lord Chief Jus,ic.
Holt, in the memorable case of Ashby and White, that
an action for pecuniary daolages might 6; sustained tin

'he refusal of a just rilfht of voting; for that chit right
was prop,•rty, according to the uniform rule anil prac-
tice of the law. He would trouble the House with a few re.
narks on the character of the disfranchisement which it was

proposed to them to enact. The authors of the Bill IA vio-
lent hands on all the boroughs enumer ;tad in schedule.; A
_ . . .

and B; the list of which was so app thing, that the
Cionglit it right to withdraw it from the Bill, and tyrant it

op in the schedule; feeling that whoever had to read it
'nest call for an orange or a gla.e= of lemonade to reit etsli

himself during his labour; and, therefore, thinking that it
would be better to make the Pchedul,s the depositary of it,
and thereby save the Members the fa'igue of its perusal...
And here lw would withdraw any offensive terms which he

might have formerly used in speaking of the Bill. He
would cal it the Reforming of Boroughs Bill, or the Dis-
franchisement Bill, or any other name that would he more
agreeable to the delicate ears of its friends. But
would now call the attention of the House to the passage
_ _

in Mauna Char a to which he had already alluded ; by
which it would appear, that the elective franchise was con-
sidered equally valua',le—that it was placed on the same
Footing—that it was protected by the same laws ,f the
realm, as freehold or any other description of property,—
The passage was as follows !—" The City of Lond,,n
shall have all the old liberties and customs which it bath
been used to have. Moreover we w;1 and grant, that

all other cities, boroughs, towns, and barons of the five
ports, and all other ports, shall have all their liberties and
free customs.—(Loud cries of " hear, hear !" from both
sides of the House.) He heard the deep at.d sonotoos
voice of his Hon. Friend the Member for 'Westminster, to
whom be would only observe, that if he would have a little
patience he would have the opportunity of playing the
schoolmaster, and setting him (Sir Charles Wetherell)
right, if he was wrong. He could assure his Hon. Friend
that he was not afraid of him as a pedagogue. He also
heard the deep and sonorous voice of the Honourable and
Learned Member for Kerry. He was not afraid, how-
ever, of the exposure which the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman was, he presumed, preparing for hist ; being
quite sure that it would he accompanied by the Hon.
and L-arned Gentleman's accustomed good humour
and sense of propriety. Those, however, who thought
that they could set him right on the point to which he had
just adverted, would have to -show that it was a proposi-
tion contrary to law that they had no more tight to take
the right of voting from a man than to take from him his
pecuniary or other property. Senne friend of the measure
might exclaim, " What ! cannot the House of Commons
take away elective franchise if they choose ?" He (Sir C.
Wetherell) did not say the House of Commons might not
do so if they choose. He did not say the House of Com-
mons might not pass a Bill to take away any man's estates.
He did not Fay the House of Commons might not pass a
Bill to confiscate the splendid domains of Woburn Abbey.
—(Hear, hear.) But he thought that the Noble Lord
opposite would go along with him in thinking that any
such law would he, not a law of right, hut the law of the
strongest—that it would be merely the jus fortioris—that
it would be a knock-down blow inflicted by a majority.
He was not disposed to deny the omnipotence of Parlia-
ment ; he was not disposed to doubt their power to cashier
and cancel the rights of every Corporation, and to dis-
franchise every man in the kingdom. Abstractedly he was
not disposed to question their equal power to do all this, as
to interfere with all pecuniary and other property. They
might, if they chose, abolish the Habeas Corpus Art ; or
adopt any other measures injurious to the liberties and in-
terests of the people. In th.it tense of the expresssion, he
did not deny the power of Parliament. But he styposed
that any such proreeding weal be generally admitted to be
unjust, tyratmic 41, and oppressive.—( Hear.) He would
now beg to call the attention of the House to the opinions
of several eminent men on the general subject of the disfran-
chisement of boroughs. The authors of the Bill acted as if
they thought the elective franchise might be packed up in
a box, and sent any where by coach. The elective fran-
chise of Boroughbridge they proposed to pack up, and send
down to Cheltenham ; and the elective franchise of Ald -
borough they proposed to pack up, and send down to
Brighton. Now what had eminent men said on this
subject? When the Shoreham case was under the con-
' sideration of Parliament, Mr. Fox declared that he could

not go the length, because a portion of the electors had
been proved delinquent, of disfranchising those who were
free from offence. When the Nottingham case was under
the consideration of Pat liament, Lord Grey, then Mr.
Grey, objected to the Bill because it was one of disfran-
chisement ; and Mr. Fox maintained, that if the principle
on which it was founded were followed up, not a Corpora-
tion would be left existing in the country. A more rash
and tyrannical innovation on the Constitution tban the
present bad never been attempted. The main principle of
the Bill was to raise up a new body of electors throughout
the empire, by conferring the right of exercising the elec
tive franchise on all 101. freeholders. As he had observed
on a former occasion, the tendency of the measure was to

democratise, he had almost said to sans-culottise, the Con-
stitution.—(A laugh.) Why, the French Jacobin philo-
aophei s of 179-2 did not propose to render the qualification
of an elector so low as the qualification proposed by the
present Bill. The class to be invested with the elective
franchise by the present Bill would constitute the large
majority of the electors of the country, and would, in
some places, hem three to one, in others as four to one, in
others as five to one, compared with the higher classes of
electors. The power was to be taken from the legitimate
conservators of our ancient institutions, to be taken from
men of property and rank, and given to the ten-pounders.
Ten pounds was considered the golden rule--the happy
medium between extremes. He would demonstrate, from
a copy of the French Constitution in his possession, that the
framers of that Constitution in 1792 did not permit the
scale of voters to sink so low. Those individuals—jaco-
bins as they were in their hearts, and pedants as they were
in their heads—not only did not permit the scale of voters
to sink so low, but they made their voters pass through a
kind of filtering stone, in the shape of what they called
an electoral body, in order to cleanse them front their po-
litical tilth.—(A laugh.) Those voters were to choose,
not Members of the Parliament, but only the electoral
j body, which electoral body was to choose the Members of
the Parliament. But what were the qualifications of the
voters so limited in their authority, by the French Consti-
tuters of 1792 ? By the clause in the Bill, the character
of which the Noble Lord opposite—not ignorantly, but
inadvertently (he believed that was the favourite word), or
by a clerical error, or by some other featherly light devi-
ation from cot rectness had nearly changed in a most ma-
terial point, the qualification fixed at a 101. a year house-
holder. By the French Constitution of 1792, the
qualification of a similar kind was required to amount to
151. or 20!. What had his Hon. and Learned Friend the
Member for Kuaresborouzli stated. with respect to the
qu lificaions of electors, it( the well-knows contest on
the subject of the French Revolution between hint and
Mr. Burke ? He regretted that his H •n. and Learned
Friend was not present to answer the advocates of
the ten-pound qualification. In that celebrated trea-
tise, the " Vindichr," his Honourable and Learned
Friend, sp-aking of the Primary Assemblies and of
the candidates, said—" In those far more numerous
cases where the (the candidates) are too obscure to
obtain that notice but by the polluted medium of
a popular canvas, this delegation is still more evi-
dently tvise. The peisant, or artizan, who is a primary
elector, knows intimately men among his equals, or ;ante-
diate superiors, who have information and honesty enough
to choose a good representative. But among this class
(the.only one which he can know sufficiently to judge) he
rarely meets with any who have genius, leisure, and am-
bition for that situation themselves. Of the candidates
to the electors in the department he may be a disinterested,
deliberate, and competent judge. But were he to be cam-
' plimented, or rather mocked, with the direct right of
electing to the legislative body, he must in the tumult,
venality, and intoxication of an election mob, give his suff-
rage without any possible just knowledge of the situation,
character, and conduct of the candidates." It thus ap-
peared to be the opinion of this learned and eminent
riter, that the classes to whom the franchise had been
communicated in France, although higher than those to
whom it was now proposed to give the elective franchise
r in England, Although they might be competent to chaise
the electoral body, were not competent to choose the actual
' legislators. Perhaps some Honourable Mem' era would
ay that "the tumult, venality, and intoxication of an Glee-
, tint mob" was an expression not applicable to that ntont-

faus class of ten-poundeis Who were to have the frinchisr
conferred upon them by the present Bill. In such at
opinion he vsluld not agree... He had stated, although not
with any:intentien, that by.the new system .many of the
:timbers would be returned to the House as the delegates
not as the. representatives of the people ; that they wouk
he required not to exercise their own judgment, hut to
obey the mandates of others. In the French Constitution
to which he had alludtd, it was, however, laid down as
unconstitutional in a Member of the legislature to be al
:
hound. He was to give an indepmdent Vote, and not to
be instructed bow to vote by his constituents. By the pre.
sent Bill, h owever, the citizen mob were to be made themasters of the citizen Parliament. The question under
considerationthew,,,tn
aff ~f of
st ht Houseiie wassofelt notlt it. The fact was,
quistion of party
it
that it was not until the present Bill had been brought io
by this conservative, or rather this despoiling Administta
-ion, that he had resumed his co:inn:ion with those with
whom he had formerly acted in that House. did s„
•

~....... .
because be -felt that the question Was not which of two
parties should ex'st, but whether the Constitution which
i-elonced to the people should remain—whether the:e
should be any party, or any Government.—(llear, hear.)
The question was, whether they were to pot down the
Church, the Monarchy, and the Peerage ?—(llear, hear.)
The question wax, whether the Monarch, the Peerage,
tnd the Church were to le entrusted to the conservative
care: and honourable feeling of a plebeian body of voters ;
or whether the legitimate principles of the Constitution,
recognised by the usage of ages, was to he supported and
maintained ?--(Meer.)Wax it to be supposed that these
zen-pounders would b~ very deeply interested - in the pre-
servation of this balance which had hitherto hem the boast
of our Constitution? Were they calculated by their piety to
he a cor.serva!ive body as respected the Church, by their
I,yal,y to be a cm.servative body ax respected the Crown, by
their habits to be a conservative body as respected the Peer.
age? And dig the Hon. Members call this a restoration ?
If he were ftequently hitnself unhappy in his phrases,
be must take the liberty of saying that he considered those
_ .. .. . ..

d • C.,
as peculiarly infelicitous who termed that which it was
now proposed to do a restoration. He would only repeat
the admirab'e question of the Hon. Member for Calling-
ton, -'j When did that which you now wish us to adopt
form any part of the Constitution-?"—(Hear, hear.) He
would only beg any lawyer in the House to consult Selden
and ascertain whether the lion. Member for Stand hail
been correct in the opinions which he attributed to that

learned antiquary. He wished Sehien was in the House.
(A laugh.) If he could so iar indulge a flight of fancy
as to suppose Salon seated by the Noble Lord, he was
sure he should see him jogging the Noble Lord's elbow,
or pulling him by the ear, and imploring him not to
quote him as an authority for the opinions which the Noble
Lord hid advanced. Let the measure be called a new-

tangled system, a C,omwellian system, or have any
other nick-name applie,l to it; but let it not ha supposed
to have the authority of one of the roost learned and
etninent writers of whom England could boast.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) It was utterly impossible th tt those who
used the term restoration could deceive themselves into
the supposition that they were replacing the elective
franchise u:,on the footing on which it _stood at any

former period of our history. He would now adveit
to what had been stated with respect to the 101.
franchise by a Lyarned Lord, and by the Hon. and
Learned Member for Caine, who had addressed the.
House with an eloquence and a power which be (Sir C.
Wetherell) hail never heard surpassed, and who had
experienced 83 much well-deserved applause from the
House.—(Hear.) He agreed with the Hon. Member in
thinking, that the middle classes do form a body peculiarly
qualified to enjoy fully the elective franchise. I do not
differ with those who propound the theory, that the middle
classes consist of persons whose opinions it is most de
sirable fora Minister to consul-. But still they would re-
main at issue as to the fact of who were, in truth the
middle classes—who were they that fell within the lion.
Member's description. Not, certainly, he would declare,
those tcn-pound freeholders of their's ; and he wobld ex-
plain why, although he feared he might be offensive in
what he had to say. It was an indisputable fact, that great
numbers of those ten-pounders paid their rent weekly—
not half-yearly, nor quarterly, nor monthly—but weekly.
Now hi-re was a class of men that their landlords would

not trust only from week to week; and were they, he
would ask, proper persons to trust with the power to re-
turn Memiters to the House of Commons ? Some people,

it lean true, did think they were ; and; when it was sup-
posed they might be possibly excluded, a body of person.
calling themselves the Birmingham Political Union had
taken up the subject ; but he was sorry to see that the
Prime Minister of this country bed recognized them.—
(Laud cheers.) If that Reform were to be a restoration
of the British Constitution, he would ask the readers and
qu tees of Selden, if it was consistent with its ancient prac-
tice and principles that a Prime Minister should recognize
by his letter a usurping body of men, who claim to be a
corporation, :iut who are a self-constituted corporation?
—(Continued cheering.) Would it, he asked, be conso-
nant with sound reason, that, even if the most extensive
alteration were to be made—if we were to make a new
State, a Prime Minister should recognize this arbitrary
institution.—(Cheers.) If the Birmingham Union peti-
tioned the House of Commons by that name, he asserted
it could not be received, because the petitioners would
present themselves loaded with a character to which they
were not entitled.—(Cheers.) In their individual capa•
wail,lieh this
always with regret;si,ouid
city they might petition ; but they could not in their cor-
r)ourtahtee character.—(Cheers.)
a said
it
with
the
independence
lie his. He would not follow the Hon. Memb .r for
Knaresborough in the course he mentioned of venality,
He
said
falsehood, and the degradation of telling untruths to any-
body. He charged the Prime Minister with it great and
glaring impropriety in recognising, by his letter, an un-
lawfully constituted and falsely assumed corporation.—
(Great cheering.) He had been going on to say that the
ten-pound system was highly mischievous, and thet in the
largtst towns of England the ter-pound men were paupers;
and he believed in Bristol, and certainly in many other
towns, this was carried to such an extent, that, from the
destitute state of those people, even a poor's rate was not
payable. These ten-pounders were, in fact, a mere
mockery of a representative body —(Hear, hear.) He
tenturel to assert it at a proposition in the abstract that
ten-pound men were not fit for the enjoyment of the
elective franchise.—( Hear, hear.) What, he would ask
the Hon. Gentleman opposite, was this their conservative
body ?--( Hear, hear)—the respectable constituency of the
parish workhouse ?—(Cheers and Laughter.) But for his
now part he considered that to solicit votes in the laza-
retto—(Continued laughter)—in pauper establishments—
was degrading to the character, qualifications, and station
of a representative. —(Continued cheers and laughter.)—
Great was the alarm, however, and great the indignation,
at the idea that this body was to be diminished. The
Hon. Members' opposite own beloved press, theirMorninp
Chronicle, and other papers, turning aside, for the mo-
ment, their wrath against corrupt boronghmongere vented
it upon Ministers themselves. Their own friends, their
own admirers, their own beloved daily press, declared that
the obnoxious clause must have been introduced, either
from ignorance in the framer of the Bill, or from the
breach of faith or delusion upon the part of Ministers who
suffered-it to be put in.--(Hear.) If he were at liberty to
make a Constitution de novo—if he had a blank leaf be-
fore him whereon to trace it out, he never would breathe
surh an insolent proposition—a proposition founded on
folly and fatuity in principle, and ignorance and heedless•
nets in its details; he never would dream of soiling that
leaf with any proposition founded on the sans culottizing
pr • ineiple of the French revolution, which the Constitution
of that country had exploded, and which every Constitu-
tion ought to explode, as too degrading and too base for
the ippointtnent and regulation of the general body of
electors.—(Loud cheers.) He next begged to ask the
county Members, who were generally described as the
representatives of the landed interests, whether, in counties
and manufacturing towns, certain pledges were given—
nee, he meant, upon the part of Government, but by
Bon. Gentlemen on the hustings, who undertook to hint
at intentions, and to insinuate pledges on their behalf 2
(Cries of " name, name.") He asked if the prospect of
free trade in corn had not been h. id out—(Name, name)
--of the quartern loaf being sold for Sid. ?—(Name,
name.) How could he, he asked, name ? Did the Hon.
Members who raised this cry suppose that • he had the
übiquity of a conjuror, so as to be present upon all those
hustings ?—(Laughter, and long continued cries of
" name.") The Hon. Gentleman at length obtained a
hearing, and proceeded to say—The last man in the
llousewho should call on him to name was the Hon. Me-
mber for Essex, who was not on the hustings during his
election from first to last.—(Laud cheering, which lasted
for several minutes.) So much for short memory.—
(Another burst of cheers and laughter.) He repeated,
that expectations of a fiee trade in corn had been held
forth in many places in England.—(Cheers and "name,
%nvahiniceCt)he Ihe wished
wivesf
ofthe, he could m
men,wh,)
wneraeseupopnse place in
supposed
deapable
of influencing and overruling their votes, had such pros-
pects held forth to them.—(Name, name.) He would
dame the places if he were driven to it : but he would
aowConn
mimdeitireeu,dneheewe'n—uld
assert
hirthmis (Cheers.)
undertake
to
If they
adduce
w wouli-
d
thence in .proof of his assertion. It could not he de-
nied, that in many places the people were told that they
would derive immense advantaes from the destruction of

•he East bid'i ntontipMy-:-.411.at, for insiance; they wal,
have the finest tea for a shWing a pound.—(Natne, name.)
Mr. F. LEWIS spoke to order. He observed that, i
vas very unfair in Hon. Gentlemen to raise this cry of
"Name, namOr when 't evi lently not for informa-

tion; but *limply to-interrupt the sp..akt,r.
Kir C. \VETHERELL resum-d—The Hon. Gentle.
men who raised that cry for the purpose of interruptiny
should lose their labuur.—( Hear, hear.). If men win

had pledged themselves to support the Bill, the whol,
Bill, and nothing hot the all, gave utterance to the cry.
,e would tell them it was unavailingly and unprofitably

launched.—(Cheers.) He could only say that he knew
the fact. In one of the midland counties a handbill, ro
•.anner, with a certain theoretical decoration, had beo
lisplayerl on the hustings.—(" Nam, r' and "
sear.") A theoretical flat!: had been displayed in a count,
arhich was at present called Northamptonshire. In tip
aew departmental division of England it would probalrly
'care a new name.—(" Hear," and laughter.) 80.,
touching this flag, he could not vouch for the fact, as
Was not himself present ; but—(Conflicting cries of .4.01-,
! hear, hear," during which an Hon. Member whis-
pered Sir Charles, who, on resuming, said)—He wss
mi..taken ; it was in Worcestershire in which the flue