The Sun.
London, England, 1836-04-19 00:00:00

providing what might appear to their Lordships to be a pro-
per and an adequate remedy. Such being the case—having
given this pledge—he for one felt that he could not, consist-
ently with his sense of public duty, oppose the second reading
of this Bill. In votimg .for this motion he knew he should
differ from many Noble friends of his for whom he enter-
tained the greatest respect, men of great constitutional know-
edge, of great experience, of great good sense, arid of the
hiehest integrity. He would now proceed to lay before
their Lordships, and to explain shortly, the course he would
propose as a substitute for this Bill. He must premise by
saying that if there was no alternative between the adoption
of this Bill and the continuance of the corporations in their
present state, he would not hesitate (so we understood) as to

the adoption of the latter. But here, fortunately, he was
not driven to such an alternative. What then, was the
course he meant to suggest ? Their Lordships must see that
this Bill, in the very first clause of it, destroyed, now and for
ever, all existing corporations—every vestige of them was
cut off. All the laws, provisions, immunities, duties, and
powers connected with these corporations were put an end to.
This clause completely did away with every corpora-
tion charter, with every fragment of such charter in Ireland.
The question then naturally occurred, what was to be substi-
tuted ? He would now shortly state what his plan was ; and
he pledged himself, if such should be the wish of their Lord-
ships, to prepare it and lay it before them in the course of the
present session. In the first place, then, his plan, proceeding
on the same principle on which they had hitherto proceeded
in corporate reform, would preserve the rights of freemen.--
( Hear, hear.) It would preserve all pecuniary rights. It
would provide for the due administration of justice both in the
criminal and the civil courts. It provided for the appointment
of sheriffs, for the administration of chartered trusts, and the
performance of all other duties incident to corporations, for
the superintendence of harbours, for chambers of commerce.
These matters would be managed with the same attention
to the interest involved as they were at present, and in the
same manner. With respect to the police of the corporations
—to cleansing, paving, lighting, and watching—they would
be provided for, as they were now, either by local Acts
or by the 9th f George the Fourth. The matters which
he had just enumerated were by this Bill entirely re-
moved from the control of the corporations. One thing
only remained to be considered--the funds of the corpo-
rations. The question naturally presented itself, what
was to be done with them ? By the Bill now proposed they
were entirely annihilated. The Noble Viscount (Melbourne)
laid down the principle that the property, the funds of Corpo-
rations, were vested in them for public purposes, for the be-
nefit of the inhabitants generally. Be it so. He would not
enter into that question now. Let them be considered trustees
for charitable purposes, and trustees for the general benefit of
the inhabitants. By his plan both objects were provided for.
It provided for the administration of the funds for charitable
purposes, as well as for the other objects contemplated by the
Bill, but in a different way. Now, what would it signify by
whom the trusts were administered, provided they were admi-
nistered honestly, economically, and beneficially for the pub-
lic ? What more would be necessary for this purpose than to
to appoint a Commission, to be chosen by the Crown ? What
was the amount of the funds they would have to administer ?
Upon this point very exaggerated accounts had gone abroad.
In mint of fact, the whole funds of the Irish Corporations,
with the exception of Dublin, did not exceed 33,0001. It was
proposed by the Bill brought in by the Noble Viscount, the
second reading of which they were now discussing, to put an
end to all tolls vested in Corporations. When this was done,
their Lordships must see that it would have the effect of re-
ducing very considerably this amount of 33,000/. It would
lie still further reduced by the purchase of all tolls vested in
private persons.—( Hear.) When these objects were ef-
fected—and he admitted that it was most desirable to put
an end to the system of tolls—the amount of funds remaining
to be administered would be very small indeed. He called
upon their Lordships to consider dispassionately the plan he
now ventured to suggest to them. Every object contemplated
by this Bill would be secured by it as effectually as it could by
preserving the mere name of Corporations, while all the power
was taken away. Besides thus securing what was really useful,
he got rid entirely of the dangerous, the intolerable nuisance
of those schools of agitation, excitement, and local annoyance,
which could not fail to produce the worst consequences.
Would it be wise to establish a system of annual elections for
corporate officers in a country circumstanced as Ireland was ?
He entreated of their Lordships not to countenance a measure
which must be productive of such evils, and ultimately of far
more serious evils, and to adopt in preference to this Bill some
such plan as he now suggested to them. The Noble Viscount
( Melbourne) could not feel any very decided hostility to it,
for he himself was, in a great measure, the original .author of
it. It was first suggested by him. In candour to the Govern-
ment he must admit that never was there a more important
question than that before their Lordships, and never a crisis
of more difficulty and danger than the present. Whatever
course they might adopt would be encompassed with dangers ;
but, thinking the course he suugested to be, of the two, the
less dangerous, he ventured to propose it to their Lordships.
Why should the Noble Viscount and those who acted with him
be hostile to the plan he suggested ? Did they not see that
by passing this Bill they would add greatly to the power of
the Radical party in Ireland, and that the power thus acquired
would be ultimately directed to their overthrow, and to the
separation of the two countries? It was to rescue them
from such frightful calamities that he then addressed their
Lordships.—( Cheers. )
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE before going into any de-
tails, would notice one point upon which the Noble and
Learned Lord animadverted—that was the division into wards
fur which he said no provision was made in the Bill. The
Noble and Learned Lord might be assured that Ministers had
no intention to entrap their Lordships, because, in point of
fact; preparations had been made to draw up a separate Bill
upon this subject of wards, which was meant to accompany this,
Bill. It was only in consequence of unavoidable delay,
arising front the nature of the inquiries to be made, that the
Dill was not then before their Lordships. He should not
trouble their Lordships further with particular clauses. All
minute circumstances were entirely lost in the importance of
the principle laid down by the Noble and Learned Lord,
which, however, disguised by his eloquence and the ingenious
artifice with which he touched upon it, amounted to this—
that the great principle of Municipal Government recognised
in England, and recognised in Ireland also, under the Plan-
taeenets, the Tudors, and the Stuarts, was inapplicable to
Ireland, and that she ought now to be stripped of it.—( Cheers
from the Ministerial benches.) The Noble and Learned
Lord, with a kind of ingenuity unworthy of his great talents,
said that by the very first clause of this Bill Irish Corporations
were completely destroyed, and that they had nothing more
now to do than follow this up by adopting the plan of the
Noble and Learned Lord. Did the Noble and Learned Lord
think that the shameful, the abominable abuses detailed in the
Irish Corporation Report were within the scope of the original
charters ? Did he think this Bill was anything more, in point
of fact, than a revival of these charters ?—( Loud cheering.)
In place of revival his system was destruction, and destruction
for ever. He would challenge the Noble aed Learned Lord
to point out any one charter of an Irish Corporation in which
the principle was exclusion. Did any one of the forty Irish
charters contain that principle ? It crept in by abuse of the
charters. They proposed to remove the abuse. He knew it
lied been said that the great object of these charters was to
exclude a certain class of his Majesty's subjects from the
benefit of Corporations. In the early part of his speech the
Noble and Learned Lord found fault with his Noble Friend
( Viscount Melbourne) for not more distinctly particularising
the existing evils, and the nature of the remedies he meant to
propose. The causes of the evils were sufficiently clear :
they were exclusiveness, irresponsibility, and self-election.—
( Cheers.) They proposed to remedy these.
Lord L YND HURST explained. He insinuated no charge
against the Noble Viscount. His argument was that the
Noble Viscount, after pointing out the evils of the present
system did not show how they could be remedied or removed
by the provisions of this Bill.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—Had not the Noble
and Learned Lord interrupted him so unnecessarily he should
have come to that point. He was pointing out the monstrous
evils of the old system ; and the remedy proposed by the No-
ble and Learned. Lord was merely to pass from one evil to
another—from a self-elected body to a body not elected at all.
The Noble and Learned Lord seemed to think that Ministers
were always legislating with a view to some particular pur-
pose, and under the dictation of some particular individual.
lie alluded to the alterations made in the clause. Now the
Noble and Learned Lord himself was the source of some of
those alterations. The Noble and Learned Lord complained
that his Noble Friend (Viscount Melbourne) did not point out
sufficiently in detail what were the advantages of this Bill.
The Noble and Learned Lord himself was equally abstinent in
pointing out what were its disadvantages. The only evil upon
which the Noble and Learned Lord had expatiated, was, that
it would give birth to schools of agitation. His speech, for
the greater part, was employed upon this topic, in pointing
out the evils of agitation, while the last pert of it was expen-
ded in showing that the new Corporations would be so com-
pletely stripped of all power and privilege, that it would
not be worth while to keep them in existence. Now he conten-
ded that the powers which the Corporations would still retain
under this Bill were highly important. With respect to
the administration of justice, it was true the appointment of
the Judges was vested in the Crown, where it ought to be ;
but that which related to the daily habits of the people, and
in which they were, personally and locally, most interested,
was left to their own administration. The Councils would
have the administration of local funds, and the right to judge
of local interests, and to decide upon them. In bodies so
constituted he, far from expecting nothing but political agita-
tion, saw the most effectual means of preventing it by drawing
attention to other and individually interesting subjects. He
supposed the Noble and Learned Lord had read a book recently
published by M. Tocqueville, for there were few interested in
such subjects who had not read it. This gentleman was of an
aristocratic family, and went over to-America with some aristo-
cratic prejudices. He returned with some fears of democracy,
:led that it would ultimately prove destructive of the existing
order of things in the United States. He found, however, a
compensation and a corrective of the democratic principle, in
the existence of municipal institutions. He says that the system
of municipal bodies operates as a corrective of the evils of the
democratic tendency, by giving healthy employment to every
active mind, by drawing their attention to local; interests and
improvements, by the feelings of interest and importance which
naturally aeise when persons are selected to fill corporate of-
fices, by the necessity of preserving peace and tranquillity, and
discountenancing agitation for the purpose of effecting the
objects of local importance they may propose to themselves.
It was the decided opinion of this intelligent writer that, in
this way, municipal institutions would lessen, and ultimately
entirely prevent, the evils he apprehended from the demo-
cratic principle. He was quite astonished at the use that sans
made of Mr. O'Connell. Noble Lords opposite confessed
that they were indebted to Mr. O'Connell for all their argu-
ments. They scented to think that a measure was either good

or bad as it was supported by Mr. O'Connell. He wished
them joy of the new principle of legislation they had intro-
duced into that House.—(Hear and laughter.) The Noble
and Learned Lord, with all his ingenuity, his experience, and
fertility of genius, was driven to Mr. O'Connell for argu-
ments to prove that this Bill would give existence to schools
of agitation.—(Hear, hear.) He did not know whether Mr.
O'Connell used such expressions or not. But suppose the
Noble and Learned Lord's plan to be adapted, and these agi-
tation schools prevented, did the Noble and Learned Lord sup-
pose that agitation would be put an end to in Ireland? In look-
ing for the arcadian repose which the Noble Lord desired so
much he seemed to have forgotten that the same persons who
would compose the councils under the present Bill would still
continue in existence under the plan of the Noble and Learned
Lord, that they were living in a free country, where it would
still be in their power to hold public meetings, to debate and
discuss political subjects, to agitate legally as much as they
pleased. Did the Noble and Learned Lord suppose that when
they saw their just claims refused by that House, when they
were declared unworthy of municipal privileges, unfit to ma-
nage their own affairs, their corporate funds and trusts placed
at the disposal of a commission named by the Crown—when
they saw this, did the Noble Lord suppose there would be no
agitation ?—( Cheers.) Far from thinking that the removal
of corporate abuses would produce agitation, he felt confident
that the existence of these grass abuses in corporations had
produced schools of agitation. It was from the foul and
tainted. atmosphere of these long-closed corporations that a
great part of the disease of discord and agitation originally
arose.—( Hear, hear.) By removing the source of the disease,
he trusted that agitation would gradually disappear, and be re-
placed by tranquillity, prosperity, industry, and wealth. They
had already given to the Roman Catholics of Ireland the
right of representing and of being represented ; and was it
to be said that they ware to be now excluded from the more
natural right of taking a part in the administration of their
own local affairs ? To refuse them this would be to act in
opposition to all the declared policy of Parliament, and would
he to destroy that parity which it was the object of Parliament
to establish.

" Paribus se legibus Arnim
Invictm gentes eaterna in feeders mittant."
Was this, then, the sort of parity which the Noble Lords op-
posite would wish to establish ?' If so, let them agree to the
present measure. Should that measure fail of producing the
effects which its promoters hoped for, then would be the time
to take the bold, and, he would add, hazardous, step of extin-
guishing the Irish Corporations altogether. On these grounds
he hoped their Lordships would agree to the Bill.
The Earl of MANSFIELD said, that although he could
not, by voting for the second reading of the Bill, give even his
temporary sanction to the principle contained in it, it was not
his intention to propose that the second reading should be post-
poned to any more distant day. It was at all times with great
reluctance that he addressed himself to their Lordships' atten-
tion, and it was particularly so on the present occasion, when
he not only differed from his Majesty's Ministers, but from
many of his Noble friends, and consequently from a very large
majority of their Lordships' House. He objected to the prin-
ciple of the present Bill because it was the same dan-
gerous principle that pervaded every measure that had
emanated from the members of the present Cabinet, and from
every other Cabinet that had conducted the Government
of the country since 1830. That mischievous principle was
the assuming without proof that abuses and evils existed, and
assuming also that their remedies were the best--the only re-
medies for the correction of those abuses, and proceeding to
apply those remedies without the slightest regard to chartered
or any other rights that might be affected by them. It was not,
he believed, fifty years ago that an Attorney-General described
a charter as a piece of parchment with a seal banging at the
corner of it ; but he believed that description of a charter, and
the rights it conveyed, did not at the time fail to prove rather
prejudicial than otherwise to the Government with which that
law officer was connected. He could not, however, say how
such a description would be received at the present time. Not-
withstanding the improvements made in the English Municipal
Bill of last year—notwithstanding that evidence had been
heard at their Lordships' bar in vindication of those rights
which were intended to be destroyed, and of the characters of
men that had been unjustly aspersed—evidence, indeed, which
it would have been most unfair and unjust to have refused—
notwithstanding this, their Lordships had not always paid re-
spect to chartered rights. He should first beg to remind his
Noble Friends near him, that they as strongly deplored the
passing of the Reform Bill as he did. Yet now they were dis-
posed to follow the example set them by the Bill. Their Lord-
ships had no right, he contended, to destroy those rights which
had been secured by charter without appealing to those whose
interests were most involved. His Noble Friends had ad-
mitted the principle of the present Bill to be the destruction of
the corporations, but they said it was better to destroy them at
once according to their own plan. Now he did not hesitate to
declare that their Lordships were not in a condition to destroy
those chartered bodies, either after the one plan or theother,

without better evidence than they had at present.

lie did not

moan to assert or insinuate any doubt as to the legality of the
commission issued to inquire into the Irish corporations, and
neither did he throw out any suspicion of bias or undue partia-
lity on the part of the Commissioners who acted under it,
although he could not equally acquit ;of partiality the English
Commissioners of last year. But although he neither impugned
the commission nor the commissioners, he did contend that

a great and extensive change, such as was contemplated
by the present Bill, should not be made upon the bare report
of those commissioners. That report stated that in the greater
number of the corporations in Ireland, there had prevailed a
system of malversation and corruption ; but there was no evi-
dence before their Lordships of the truth of these severe accu-
sations, nor had there been any opportunity given to the ac-
cused party of refuting the charge. Surely their Lordships
ought not to legislate on a question of such importance
without better evidence than this bare, unsupported report.
A question had been raised as to whether or not corporation
property was trust property. For his own part he had never
viewed it in any other light than trust property; but lie be-
lieved that all past experience would prove that trust property
and individual property were not so widely different in charac-
ter but that the means and necessity of securing one were also

applicable to the other. He would remind their Lordships of
what had been said by a Noble and Learned Friend of his,
whose absence from that House on account of illness he la-

wilted deeply—(the ERR of Eldon)--one of the greatest law
authorities that had ever lived in this .or in any other country.
That Noble and Learned Lord bad stated that it would be

impossible to say how much individual property there was in
the country that rested on a surer foundation than Corporation
property. The present Bill appeared to him to be a different
Bill altogether from the Bill that was brought in for the same
purpose in the last Session. In the preamble of the Bill of
last year it was stated that in the lapse of time the Corpora-
tions in Ireland had become inefficient for the purposes for

which they were originally designed ; but the present Bill did
not assign even this reason, but merely alleged expediency as
the ground of the Bill. For his own part, in these times of
doubtful protection for vested rights, he was rather disposed
for a system of tardy rather than precipitate legislation.
He had thus stated to their Lordships these few prelimi-
nary objections in the first instance. But he entertained
other objections still more forcible. The principal of these
was the vast increase of power which this Bill was calculated
to throw into the hands of the Roman Catholics in Ireland.—
( Cheers.) That this was one of the objects of the Bill was
not denied, nay, it was even admitted and defended.—
( Cheers.) Now he did not so much find fault with the Bill
for giving this increased power to the Roman Catholics, but
that it gave power to that portion of the Roman Catholics
who ought the least to be trusted with power.—(Cheers.)
It was not to the Roman Catholics of education, or of pro-
perty, or who were obedient to the laws, that the Bill
went to give power, but' to the lawless and the uneducated
class of persons belonging to that religion, who were under
a slavish submission to their Priests, the busy agitators and
interferers in every species of elections, and also the slaves of
lay agitators, who availed themselves of religious prejudices
to excite the national antipathy of the ignorant classes to
British connection.—( Cheers.) It had been stated that the
Catholic Relief Bill of 1829 was designed to place Catholics
and Protestants on a perfect equality. He admitted that
it was so far as civil rights went, but that Bill made
no provision for the admission of Roman Catholics to
Corporations. He believed that Roman Catholics were
entitled to admission into Corporations by the Act of
1793. That is, the Corporations had a discretionary power

given to them to admit Roman Catholics ; but we-re. their
Lordships now to say that, because that discretion had not

been soused, a maroiling force was to' be used, and the dis-

cretion taken away altogether? What effect was the present
Bill calculated to have upon Protestants? Why, to exclude
them from Corp Orations.— (Cheers.) In any difference of
opinion that he had entertained with reference to these sub-
jects from the Noble Lord near him (the Duke of Wellington)
he was certain that he had never imputed to that Noble Duke
any disregard of the Protestant Church, or any wish to see
Catholic ascendancy established in its stead.—( Cheers.) Nei-
ther had he ever imputed any wish of the kind to the Noble
Lords opposite at the time that the Catholic Emancipation
Bill passed; because at that time those Noble 'Lords had not
detached themselves from the interests of the Established
Church.—( Cheers.) They had not at that time joined in
the denunciation of Tithes, nor in the mutilation of all Church
property to gratify their adversaries.—(Cheers.) They had
not then sanctioned the condemnation of tithes as an en-
sanguined treasure and an intolerable impost, They had not
thr 14 brought in a Bill to withdraw their legal support from
the Protestant Clergy, and leave that Clergy exposed to pe-
nury and insult.—( Cheers. ) They had not then entered into
a league of implicit confidence with the Honourable and
Learned Member for Dublin--(lmmense cheering)—whose
hatred to the Established Church had been repeatedly and
openly avowed—(Cheers)l.--who had publicly avowed his de-
termination to dissolve the Union, unless Parliament passed
the present and other measures which he dictated. He (Earl
Mansfield) did not want to withhold equal rights from the Ro-
man Catholics, but here the Roman Catholics were claiming
an ascendancy that was not claimed by the Protestants. This
was a measure calculated to oppress the Protestants in Ireland,
who had always been the steady supporters of British connec-
tion. He confessed he could not understand the principle upon
which the framers of the present Bill had proceeded. It had
been said that it was a return to the ancient usage, but he should
like to know when it was any part of the ancient usage in
Corporations to have the town councils elected by the house-
holders of the town? The Bill might be possibly an improve-
ment, but it certainly was not a renovation. He could not un-
derstand either why it was that only 51 out of 75 borouas
Ireland were introduced into this Bill, and of those intrcUltioed
some were much smaller than some that were excluded, Bel-
turbet, for instance, -vas to have a sovereign and other corpo-
rate officers, although the population was only 2,026. The
Corporation had no property, bad only an income of four pounds
a year, and owed a debt in common with all the Corporations
of 1001.—(A laugh.) He did not see any provision in
.the
Bill for the remaining twenty-four Corporations. Were they

to be left, as had been said, to wallow in their abominations?
—(A laugh.) Now, as to the plan that had been laid before
their Lordships that night by his Noble and Learned Friend
(Lord Lyndhurst), much as he disapproved of the Bill of
his Majesty's Ministers, he disapproved equally of the plan
of his Noble and Learned Friend. It had been held by
many that these corporations were established in Ireland for
the protection of the Protestant religion. He could not say
that he agreed with those who thought so. His own belief
and opinion was, that they were designed to maintain and
.oreserve the English connection : and so far, undoubtedly,
they went to protect the Protestant religion, as one was iden-
tified with the other. The charter of the corporation of
Dublin, for instance, was granted to the King's citizens of
:3ristol. The truth was that, properly speaking, Ireland
never was conquered; at least the consequences that had
followed all other conquests of countries did not follow in
Ie
themselves the con que conqueringcountry;party,
and
ether case. There
in English settlers, were many of
tlers,established
hut those settlers and the natives never entered into a proper
state of fusion, nor did the conquered adopt the laws or
usages of the conquerors. They never came under one
denomination or unity of laws or Constitution. It was
not upon these, or any other grounds, that he would pro-
pose to exclude one party or the other from religious mo-
tives. He might, perhaps, in the judgment of some No-
ble Lords, be attaching too much importance to the
ilidividval of whom he was going to speak, by alluding to
anything he might have said. The Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Dublin was reported to have said—(he did not know
that he had said so)—that the Union would be no better than
a cobweb if this Bill was not passed. He was reported to
have held this language both in Ireland and in England, and
ii not contradicted it might have an unfavourable effect upon
the minds of persons who were easily misled. It could be no
disparagement to their Lordships to satisfy every portion and
description of their countrymen that their acts and proceed-
ings were dictated by impartiality and justice. He wished
sincerely to support every measure which he thought would
conduce to the happiness of Ireland. He wished to have her
connection with England marked by equal laws and equal
rights to all classes, without regard to religious differences ;
but he would never sanction an ascendancy to the Catholics ;
and in making any change he would adhere to vested rights.
Ile could not consent, therefore, to vote for the second reading
of this Bill, nor did he think that it could be in any future
stage so far amended as to induce him to give his vote for its
passing in any shape.—(Cheers.)
Lord FALMOUTH characterized the present Bill as cal-
culated for the abolition of the most valuable part of the Con-
stitution—a Bill for the abolition of all existing Corporate
rights. He could not reconcile himself to such a Bill. It
was concocted on a principle which rendered its production a
matter that might be claimed by many fathers, and he thought
his Noble and Learned Friend, amongst others, deserved the
tide of its foster-father. He rejoiced that he was not a party
to the Bill of Reform, and that he had not supported the Cor-
poration Robbery Bill of last ybar, and it would always afford
him a feeling of consolation that he had stood opposed to the
present encroachment on the Constitution, He, therefore,
was decidedly opposed to the second reading of this Bill.
Tim Earl of RIPON entered into a review of the conduct
of the Noble Viscount and the other Noble Lords who sup-
ported him. The Noble Viscount had certainly said, sneer-
ingly, that the real originator of the amendment had pur-
sued his opposition in a style not very consistent with his
usual caution.—( Hear.) He could not well believe that he
pointed at his Noble and Learned Friend, or at the Noble ,
Duke ; but his language evidently meant to convey the notion
that some rash person was interfering with his measures, re-
gardless of the interests of the country. He was not aware
of any cause the Noble Viscount had for such an assertion
against his Noble Friend. He could not recollect that when
they had acted together his Noble Friend had subjected him-
&At* to any charge of singular indiscretion, and he believed he
was not far from the truth in asserting that the only cause of
separation was that his Noble Friend could not acquiesce in
the measures of violence and indiscretion to which the Noble
Viscount then began to lead himself. He (the Earl of Ripon)
should, on the present occasion, pursue a path still more sepa-
rate from the Noble Viscount, as the mischief he was about
to perpetrate in the name of his Majesty's Government was
calculated to entail ten times greater mischief on Ireland, un-
der the most mistaken plea of "justice to Ireland," which re-
quired a similarity of laws. But how could any man in his
senses suppose that the balance of similarity lay in favour of
Ireland in the present state of the two countries without being
a visionary ? A difference pervaded almost every branch of
their affairs, even under the existing Government—a difference
in the powers of the Executive, in the administration of jus-
tice, the management of finances, commerce, and internal re-
sources, in the nature and exercise of the elective franchise,
in the system of defence—of education—of religion and provi-
sion for the poor.—(Hear.) These were the things that con-
stituted the marked and essential difference between the con-
dition of the two countries, and who could say with truth that
they were prepared for a similarity of the municipal arrange-
ments?—( Hear.) The real question before them now was,
whether the Bill or the amendment were the better adapted to
secure the happiness of Ireland in its present state? If (as
he sincerely believed) the latter was calculated to effect the
greater benefit, then " justice to Ireland" required that they
should adopt it. Through its means he hoped to be able
to give his hearty concurrence to a Bill which no doubt would
remove many of the evils of Ireland.

The Marquis of CL ANRICARDE argued that, without
the arrangements of the present Bill, justice could not be
done to Ireland in the matters of election of sheriffs and in the
exercise of the franchise. The broad principle of self-govern-
meat was the basis of the Bill, and should be applied to Ireland
in ( very applicable case.
The Earl of WIN CH IL SE A declared that if this Bill was
carried it would eventually be the means of repealing the
Union. He would not stop to inquire if the Noble Viscount
was the sole father of the present Bill, or if it was the joint
production of the Noble Viscount and of Irish priests and
agi.ators; but would at once appeal to the House, and ask if
tlity would consent to pass the 13111 in its present shape, and
thereby give ample power into the bands of Mr. O'Connell
and his friends of the Priesthood for the destruction of the
Union ? When the plan of Catholic conciliation in 1829 was
brought forward, be had in vain attempted to convince their
Lordships that they would thereby put an end to the Protes-
tant Corpdrations in Ireland, and now they saw the result.
These Corporations had been established by James 1., to
maintain Protestant ascendancy in Ireland; but by the Bill of
1829 their purposes had ceased, and their functions might,
therefore, in consistency cease also. With the exception of
the Municipal Corporation of Ayr, and a place in the north of
England, not a single Corporation had sent a petition to pray
for a prolongation of their existence. He had therefore a
right to assume that in doing away with these Corporations
they were not acting in hostility to public feeling. The real
mover in the matter was the agitator, who wished to transfer
all power in Ireland, to grasp it himself. Yet their Lord-
ships were told in 1829 that if these insatiable agitators were
admitted within the Constitution, and not excluded from all
political power, they would thenceforth be satisfied and quiescent.
Viscount MELBOURNE—Not by me.
The Earl of WINCHIL SEA, in continuation, declared
thst Ireland was now in a worse condition than at any time
within the last ten years—with crimes increasing, opposition to
the law, and disorganisation in every quarter, making frightful
progress. He concluded by giving his best support to the
amendment.

Lord RODEN declared that if he were not assured that a
material alteration would take place in this Bill in Committee
he would not consent to support the amendment, for it would
produce the greatest evils in Ireland, and increase the mis-
c•hievous energy of agitation which already prevailed to a me-
lancholy degree, leading to additional and systematic measures
of tyranny and persecution, already widely prevalent.
The LORD C HANCE LL OR then put the question, which
wa; carried without a division.

Lord LYNDHURST then gave notice that he would ap-
po'nt an early day, when either he, or some other Noble Lord
On his side of the House, would move the requisite instructions
to the Committee.

Lord MELBOURNE requested that he would name an
ear:y day.
[ We understood that it was subsequently arranged across the
talAe that Tuesday se'nnight should stand as the day.l
Their Lordship's then adjourned at Half-past Ten.

HOLLAND.

SECOND CHAMBER of the STATES-GENERAL.

THE HAGUE, APRIL 13. —The Chamber in its sitting to-
day renewed the report of the Central Section on the pro-
ject of law relative to the coin, the discussion of which was
fixed for Saturday next.
_ _

The order of the day was the debate on the four projects
of law relative to the finances:—

A. hi the creation of a debt charged on the colonies.
13. In providing for the full payment of interest of the na-
tional debt for 1836.

C. In modifying the first division of the budget for 1837.
I). In fixing the means of providing for the expenses of the
firs division of the budget of 1837, and Succeeding years.
After some debate the following was the result :
A. Adopted by a majority of 2:8 to G.
B. Adopted by a majority of 40 to 12.
C. Rejected by a majority of 48 to 4.
I). Falls to the ground inconsequence of the rejection of D.
Some persons affirm tl-
diat his Royal Highness the Prince
of Orange will go in e_ge course of this month to London, and
will pass some time 'chore.
We learn thatanf
stoptionEthienrgeatnildl
sQauteuerndawy,.ill go to Amsterdam
I`7ews from Canton of the 19th of December-having been
recciri.4 in Holland, in which no mention is made of the de-
struction of the city of Pekin by an earthquake, the report
which was brought from Valparaiso in Chili to Nei,v York,
ana thence to Europe, is most probably false.

i'',-)d,B:trt., only tijN,l°uiEpn i\if
atßlAGE.—Admiral Sir John Be-
res' /Jrother of Viscount Beresford, is about to
inuty Mrs. Peach, relict of J. Peach, Esq., a lady of consi-
detr*Jle property., Sir John Beresford was tirst married to Miss
Muiley, who ,'Aied in 1813 ; and secondly, in 1815, to Miss
Pie' se (gra'.ll3-daughter of -Lord 'Monson), who died in 1825.
He has, ch',ldren surviving by both marriages.
S'T.,l„p DUTY - ON
jgEWSPAPEas. —.... A
Pwhen
public
GA .of tb
cti,,,g on this subject was held at Bath, ol!' Tuesday,the total v,e;:ri, .us resolutions and a petition, praying
fo
,i,,s:aesr ohnediodp toe: Saturday 2d inst. a Lis-
-11 .
A ine
keard, for the purpose of petitioning Parliament against the
ee6dantgy,
Tithe Co..nroutation Bill.
..).sioi, ,alleged
beearosree
Dr.' Gi G
bi.P'niu
av
aree%' of Mayfield Hall, neBr.
, 4s as (Tone into on Satur-
-6),
Mnrcl,:stield, which resulted in they committal for trial! of an
inclivi• Anal, who has for years deservedly occupied a resin ctahle
pin society at tu i 1,
statica tewn.