The Sun.
London, England, 1836-11-18 00:00:00

PREPARATORY MEETING OF THE NON-ELECTORS.

No sooner did the non-electors hear of Sir Henry's visit,
than a meeting was called for Saturday evening, the promi-
nent object of which was, " to consider Sir Henry Parnell's
votes in Parliament, and public affairs in general." The
meeting was numerously attended, although the weather,
the day, and the hour, were alike unfavourable. Mr. James
Whyte, weaver, was called to the chair.
Mr. JAMES Buis, weaver, in moving the address, said
that, as regarded Sir Henry Parnell's votes, there were two
with which especial fault was to be found. The first re-
ferred to the ballot question, and the second to the abolition
of flogging. Sir Henry's private opinion is in favour of the
vote by ballot ; but still he absented himself on the two oc-
casions when the question was brought before the House.
The answer he gives to this is, that in consequence of the
Government having resolved to oppose the ballot, he, as a
member
of that Government, was obliged either to vote
against it, or absent himself.—(Hissing.) Sir Henry ex-
plains further, that he had used all his influence with the
Government to allow the question to be an open one, so that
each Member might vote in accordance with the pledge
given to his constituents. The Chairman and himself had
waited upon Sir Henry Parnell on Friday afternoon, to as-
certain if he would receive an address ; and he naturally in-
quired the purport of it. They stated, that one of the
points referred to the ballot, which led to a conversation on
the subject. He said he would leave it to the people of
Dundee to say whether they should compel him to abandon
a Government pledged to the support of so many great
questions, merely because on the question of the ballot it
had hitherto been resolved that members of Government
should oppose it. He (Mr. Buik) at once stated that the
great majority of the people of Dundee were decidedly in
favour of vote by ballot. Upon the subject of abolition of
flogging, the deputation did not enter ; but the meeting
were aware that Sir Henry had voted for its continuance.
He (Mr. Buik) considered flogging in the army a most
brutal and savage practice. Besides, as matters stood, it
was the aristocracy flogging democracy. None of the offi-
cers were flogged ; and why should such an irritating and
invidious distinction prevail ?—(Cheers.) The address like-
wise treated of another important question—Peerage Re-
form. " We have got a fair trial of Parliamentary reform,
but it is not found to work. We find that only mischief
has been accomplished—we must bring about the reform of
the other half. We cannot expect a machine only one-
half constructed to work well.—(Cheers.) In the Commons

the representation has been much improved ; but no im
provemcnt has taken place in the constitution of the Lords.
It is the same as it was 800 years ago ; and the Members
of that House have no more right to their irresponsible
power than highway robbers have to their ill-gotten wealth.
—(Cheers.) It is an insult to the common sense of an en-
lightened people, to see a handful of landed proprietors
wielding, without controul, the destinies of their fellow men.
We should not tolerate any such thing, and determine to
adopt resolute measures to secure our emancipation."---
(Great cheering.)
After some further remarks, an address was read, and
unanimously agreed to.

On Monday, the weather being favourable, Sir Henry
addressed his constituents from hustings erected in
High-street. The attendance was good, amounting in all
to from 3,000 to 4,000.
Sir H
to. P
appearaaN E LL
before said
histhat
constituentsit
o render r e
an
factionac-
count of his conduct as their representative in Parliament.
If he had failed in availing himself of such an opportunity,
he would have considered that he was betraying the trust
which had been reposed in him. His principles had under-
gone no change since he was first returned to Parliament
as their representative. When he last appeared before
them, he justified his acceptance of office from the expecta-
tion which he entertained that Lord Melbourne would eon-
duct the Government of the country fairly and honestly.
He told them that he knew Lord Melbourne personally,
and that, from the firmness of his character, from his pro-
bity and talents, he considered him qualified for the situa-
tion of Prime Minister ; and, he trusted that he could
now fearlessly refer to every part of Lord Melbourne s
conduct during the eighteen months he been in office;
to prove the accuracy of his anticipations. Lora
Melbourne was not in office so as to commence opera:
rations until June 1835, when the Session was far advaneeQl'
but he lost no time in bring forward measures for the Pub-
lie good. He had taken pains to make up an accurate list
of those measures ; and he thought that when the meeting
heard that no less than twenty-one great measures had been
entered upon by Government in one session, it must strike
them that Government was not remiss in fulfilling the hoe
entertained. There was the English Tithe Bill ; the Ms;
senters' Marriage Bill ; the Registration of Births and
Deaths ; the Bill for the Reduction of Taxes on Know"
ledge ; the Charitable Trustees Bill ; a Bill to amend
the
.English Municipal Reform Bill of the previous Ses-
sion ; the Jewish Disabilities Bill ; the Post Office Reform
Bill ; the Prisoners' Counsel Bill ; the County Elections
Bill ; and the Imprisonment for Debt Bill. Neither were
the interests of Scotland neglected. There was the Court
of Session Bill ; the Sheriff Court Bill ; the Bill called
the Diligence Bill ; the Bill regarding the voters in Conn:
ties ; and a Bill introduced, although not persevered
in, for reforming the Scottish Municipal Corporations.
For Ireland there was the Irish Municipal Bill ; the
Irish Church Bill ; and a Bill of very great consequence re-
garding Irish Police. Now, if all these measures be ja"
quired into, it will be seen that they are founded on the
principle of extending the original measure of reform
through all the branches of Government. He believed that
no measures were ever brought forward less liable to ob-
jection. With regard to the careful manner in which the
measures had been prepared, he was able to quote an autho-
rity which, in this town especially, would be of high value
—he referred to his friend Mr. Rintoul.—(Cheers.) Sir
Henry here read an extract from the Spectator, in which lt,
was stated that Ministers met Parliament with a stock of
useful and digested measures. Now, continued Sir Henry,
I refer to this authority the more readily, because MT'
Rintoul has all along acted a most independent part, and is
as ready to do justice to Ministers when he can conscien-
tiously do so, as to find fault with them when occasion
requires.—(Loud cheers.) Now, though he had dwelt
flus Jon; on the advantages which the iGovernmei,t had
conferred on the country, it was clear that Ministers had not
succeeded in carrying many of their measures through the
House of Lords. Having mentioned the House of Lords,
he would not allow the subject to slip.—(Cheers.) But in
stating his opinion, he begged it to be distinctly understood
that he only gave it as an individual, and not as a Minister
of the Crown. He only gave his opinion as their repre-
sentative. He was not acquainted with the views of the
Cabinet on this subject. With regard to his own opinion,
he had no hesitation in saying that it appeared to bim
that the time was near at hand when something must
be done to put an end to the state of disunion which
exists between the Houses of Lords and Commons
(Cheers.) Four Sessions have now passed since the Re-
form Bill was carried, and in every one the House of Lords
had resisted the House of Commons by rejecting the most
important measures sent up ; and who can say that it does
not appear, from this circumstance, that the constitution of
the House of Lords, as now existing, is imperfect, and
cannot go on with the new order of things as created bl
the Reform Act—(Cheers)—and therefore something has
arisen for correction out of the Reform Act ? No doubt
could exist, that if the Lords persevered in their conduct,
. legislation would come to a stand ; and not merely the le-
gislation of the country, but if resistance was extended,
the business :of carrying on the Government might also
come to a stand. Now, with regard to a plan of Peprarie
Reform, he had only to put them in mind of several, In
connexion with which it would be found that the advo-
cates of the measure had not agreed on any one plan. N"
plan bad been proposed which had not met opposition.
Until some distinct and intelligible plan was brought for-
ward, it would, in some degree, be premature and impro-
per to pronounce an opinion on the course which should be
adopted. He had thought it necessary to say this much
on the important subject of Peerage Reform, as he
knew it would be satisfactory to know what his senti-
ments as an individual were on the topic. Sir Henry next
adverted to the great success with which the administration
of the Government had been carried on. With re-

gard to foreign affairs, the Melbourne Government have
done everything to promote the cause of liberty, by ev
deavouring Ito establish liberal and enlightened instittv
tions in Spain and Portugal. After referring to the trail:
quillity which prevailed in the country, he next alluded
to what had been done in Ireland. For that country 1;11:
only were new laws required, but a better administration
of the existing laws was necessary. With regard to the
intentions of the Ministry, he felt quite certain that thci
meant to go forward. They would not stop because P
tially defeated. They are not conquered or vanquished by
the House of Lords. They know they are supported
.b 1
the people ; and it remained with the constituencies
throughout the empire to support them by increasing on
f
the first opportunity the majority in the Commons ; and
this be the case, they will succeed in carrying all their
measures. They will again introduce next Session the
measures rejected in the last, and add others, amon,,,,gst
which will be one for the settlement of church-rates. lie
had felt it necessary, as a Minister of the Crown,
.t'"
enter into these details. He" next referred to the feell
which he knew existed as to his conduct on the Ballot ; an
he felt convinced he could refer with confidence to it. Sir
Henry then referred to a letter which he had received frol
the Secretary of the Political Union on the subject, and
to the reply which he gave. That reply
satisfactory to the Union. He had stated in his letteri
that if the friends of liberal measures were to push al
points to extremity, it would lead to a breaking up of the
Government. Now he considered that the same thing He
was considers
plied to his other votes which had been objected to. lit
would state, however, in connection with this session, that
whenever he found the Government bringing forward a bet_
measure, he would at once vote against it and abancic.!
office—out of office he would vote for every measure
which he was pledged.
Sir Henry then left the hustings.

Dr. Granville has arrived at his house in GraAO'
street, from an extended professional tour on the Continent,
during the summer months. In the midst of his active oe;
cupations the distressing news overtook him of the death 01
his eldest son, to whom he was fondly attached, who was
drowned while bathing in Dampton Bay, Broadstairs, le
the Ist of September last. Mr. Granville had, through,
his own merits alone, before he was 21 years old, attain en
the rank of Lieutenant and Adjutant in the 89th regimea'
in which he was about to resume his duties, after a severf
and protracted illness, on account of which he had obtained
from Lori Hill a leave of absence of some months.
Yesterday morning, as Mr. James Paulo (son of the
celebrated clown of that name) was crossing the irlinmesi
near Gravesend, in a small boat, to rejoin some theatrics
friends in a vessel not far distant, the wherry, owing t°
some mismanagement of the waterman, upset, and A
tli'.
Paulo was precipitated into the water ; not being ablargee o
swim, he was just on the eve of drowning, when some b':
meo, who had observed the transaction, hastily
off to his deliverance. Mr. Paulo was sinking for the
third time, when one of the bargemen threw a rope to him,
which he caught ; but he was taken out quite insensible.
Some restoratives, combined with a little care and atten"
tion, quickly relieved him, and he was able soon after
at
return to London in a post-chaise, and resume his duties a
the Theatre Royal, Covent Garden.
The late Earl of Dunmore is succeeded in his titles
put a boas
and estates by his eldest son, Viscount Fincastle, who vid..
recently united to Lady Catharine Herbert. His Lo,r, 0
ship and his bride had arrived at Dunmore Castle, from 1,.
death,
Continent, Continent, about a fortnight previous to the Earl's
The Earl was in his 75th year, and married Lady 5
Hamilton, daughter of Archibald, ninth Duke of Hainaut •
Recent letters from the Neelgherries mentiono that -
Sir Frederick Adam positively quits India in
,u_oja
They state that " he is broken very much in hea_ltn.e_T
is
very much out of humour; that he resides a good de_3:ise,
great ex ripen.
the most retired way at Kotagbery, takes no
transacts no great business, but grumbles horribly." .4'
gal Hurkara.

LONDON,
FRIDAY EVENING, NOVEMBER 18, 1836.

The question of Peerage Reform, whatever the
Tories may say and believe to the contrary, is making
satisfactory progress. Since we last alluded to the
subject, two more converts have been made—Sir H.
"PARNELL and Mr. TULK both men of station, and
unsullied political integrity, The former, in a speech
recently delivered to his constituents at Dundee, said,
4' it appeared to him that the time was near at hand
When something must be done to put an end to the
state of disunion which exists between the two Houses
of Lords and Commons," evidently implying by the
Word " something"—for there is no other available re-
tedy—his conviction of the necessity of a Reform in
the Upper branch of the Legislature. Mr. TULK,
at Poole, was still more explicit. "He had always
spoken his mind freely," he observed, " and he now de-
clared himself a real Radical Reformer. He was an ad-
:3eate for a Reform in the House of Lords ; for vote by
ballot ; for the shortening the duration of Parliament ;
!112(1 an extension of the suffrage." The declarations
Zit men like these will have great moral weight with
community. Sir H. PARNELL'S " name," in
particular, will be a " tower of strength" to the Peer-
age Reformers ; for he is a statesman of tried sagacity,
‘1)131 great experience, and universally respected for the
Oldness and undeviating consistency of his political
.°ll(luct. It seems, however, notwithstanding these
acknowledged excellences, that the Right Honourable
Baronet has given dissatisfaction to some of his Dun-
ee friends, by his conduct with regard to the Ballot.
his private opinion (say they) is in favour of it, yet
;te Voted against it last session. This, no doubt, was
jhgreat error in judgment ; but Sir HENRY observed,
:justification, that he had previously done all he
to prevail on Ministers to make the Ballot an
penquestion, as was Catholic Emancipation with the
c'Y Cabinet ; but failing in his efforts, he had no
resource left but either to side with the Government,
Itir,jute against them, and so lead to the impression—
eh, of course, the Conservatives would instantly
;iv
1:1,i1 themselves of—that there was weakness,
jt disunion, and, perhaps, even a split, in the
illisterial ranks. This explanation was—on the
Ith
ale.—favourabl y received by the Dundee Re-
illers ; a few indeed of the more sturdy Radicals
et
11P•ressed themselves still dissatisfied—and we quarrel
0, tic. 'with a distrust that proceeds from the best mo-
t:8- --,but the majority evidently felt that their Repre-
hrueta tive, placed as he was in a most embarrassing
d_icament, could scarcely have acted otherwise than
the We trust that henceforth Ministers will see
e necessity of relieving their adherents from these
sl harm ssments ; and not compel them to be confirm-
-101 struggling between their duty to the Government
th Whioh they belong, and that which they owe to
keit Constituents. It is too bad that a states-
eti of Sir H. PARNELL'S eminence should be
pfagged through the mud, merely to suit the purposes
to $c
r. If Government cannot reconcile it to their
i'3e o 1 propriety to advocate the ballot, let them,
Ptheast, have the liberality to make it an open question.
toe country, to whom they owe so much, has a right
t tioll et/lalid this at their hands, especially as they are
't ding no great boon—making no great sacrifice
14.1.1414 merely adopting a precedent set them by
I"eer l'ory predecessors in office. But to return to
Seeat),e Reform. This question, which two years
Lord 'Was but the hobby of the few, is now—thanks to
beeo LYNDHURST and those who act with him-
-18441,,14 a matter of paramount consideration with the
of /- The majority are impressed with a stern sense
eb it`
necessity, not from any capricious love of
411), Z
4 41*---for the English, as a people, are natur-
e verrie to innovation—but because their good
be h ?e aches them, that without such Reform,
to 1184 tess of sound, efficient legislation, must come
4
ead stand-still. Willingly—most willingly
their `4l
ey leave the Lords in the full possession of all
by )11itical privileges ; but they see and feel that,
Comm
,s(loing; they would only be sacrificing the
'lls) and consequently their own interests.
8-

speech lately delivered by Sir JOHN CAMP-
-1 a.
et' .
If
his constituents at Edinburgh, has been pub-
ItIC by RIDGWAY in a separate form. We are
etc. 1
Y glad of this. It is a just tribute to the ex-
't4ll3, = Of the address, and will be the means of mate-
y dvancino• the Uood cause which Sir JOHN SO
th bedy
(1. ocates The style is admirably suited to
tlbeet had mainly in view—
which the Speaker
lib melt,Yy to •
aqe give a correct representation of the efforts
41 0, Ministers to give effect to the Reform Bill,
4 the
-oose obstacles opposed to these efforts by the
°I Lords at the instigation of Lord LYND-
ktid ofte It is quite unambitious, but singularly pithy,
Nv._ ll Most happily piquant.
noticed this masterly speech at considerable

length at the time of its delivery ; but we are sure our
readers will be pleased to have their memories refreshed
by an extract or two from a composition, which pos-
sesses the merit of having procured for its author a
more than ordinary effusion of bile from Tories of all
ranks and degrees—from the proud, elaborate, and som-
niferous Lord WHARNCLIPFE to the truculent quill-
driver of the Times, or the nondescript animal who
spits its venom in the columns of the Morning Post.
Having alluded to the defeat of the unprincipled
attempt of the Tory party to gain a triumph by bring-
ing a false accusation against Mr. O'CONNELL, and
of the still more abandoned conspiracy against Lord
MELBOURNE, which they endeavoured to prop up by
suborning witnesses to give false testimony in a Court
of justice, Sir JOHN CAMPBELL proceeds to state
the system of tactics to which the factious Peers had
recourse, and gives, in a few touches, a capital pic-
ture of the " Alien" Baron whom they chose as their
leader, and set for the nonce in the front of the Peerage.
" The hopes of the Tories being thus disappointed,
nothing remained for them except to adopt a system
whereby, as far as practicable, useful legislation might be
put a stop to. It seems to me that for this purpose the
Tories changed their leader. They now threw aside the
mask of Reformers—they no longer appeared as pseudo-
liberals, but were determined to act on their own genuine
principles. Some of them looked on Sir Robert Peel as
little better than a Radical, and the Duke of Wellington
was considered deficient in energy and vigour.—(Laughter.)
They therefore resorted to my Lord Lyndhurst.
" It is with great reluctance that I say any thing which
can be considered in the slightest degree as reflecting cen-
sure on that Noble Lord. I have known him long—.l
have eaten salt with him—which I cannot forget, though
he may. He is possessed not only of brilliant talents, but
most agreeable manners—he has power to assume a plea-
sing shape.—(Laughter.) However, in the discharge of
a public duty I must make a few observations upon him in
consequence of his new capacity—painful as this must be
to my feelings.
"He has recently said of me he believes lam a
Whig.' Most correct ! and I say with equal truth I be-
lieve he was a Whig, and a great deal more—(Cheers)—
and I do not despair of seeing him again return to our
side of the question.—(Hear, hear.) He is liable to sud-
den changes of opinion—always acting conscientiously ;
and though it may happen that, in those changes, his opi-
nions coincide with his interest, yet he has the magnanimity
to act upon them.—(Laughter and cheers.) When he re-
turns to the Liberal cause, we shall hail him with satisfac-
tion—(Cries of No, no !')—Yes, yes !—but taking care
that he does not drive on too rapidly, and that he does not
urge us to propose measures which may prove subversive
of the Monarchy under which we were born, and under
which I hope we wish to live and die."

Sir JoHN's remarks upon the two great Irish mea-
sures proposed by Ministers, and rejected by the
Lords are admirable. The question of spoliation re-
ceives no quarter, and is soon reduced to its proper
dimensions, when it comes into contact with his sturdy
common sense. Here again we have a happy hit at
" the Alien."

" In the first place, according to the recommendation in
his Majesty's speech, a Bill was introduced for the pur-
pose of establishing peace and harmony in Ireland by the
settlement of the tithe question, and for introducing a
considerable degree of reform into the Irish Church. That
measure passed the House of Commons, and was sent to
the House of Lords. They did what they know would
amount to a complete rejection of the Bill—and what was
the pretext ? Why, it contained what is called the ap-
propriation clause. It is a curious fact that, in 1834, a
Bill nearly the same in substance was sent up to the
House of Peers, but without the appropriation clause, and
that Bill was rejectd.—(Hear, and cheers.) Now, what
is this bugbear—the appropriation clause ? The principle of
it is this, and no more—that if there shall be a surplus in the
revenues of the Irish Church, beyond what is necessary for
the maintenance of the Protestant Establishment in Ireland,
and for ministering to the spiritual wants of the Protestants
in that country, it shall be applied to the education of
Catholics and Protestants generally. Is that spoliation ?
is that robbing the Church ? if we take from the Church
what is necessary for promoting the instruction and mi-
nistering to the spiritual wants of her members, then there
would be just cause to complain ; because I hold that the
funds which are set apart for religious instruction are sa-
cred, while they are not more than sufficient for that pur-
pose ; but if a surplus exist, then I maintain that it is not
only the privilege but the duty of the State to apply that
surplus, and it cannot be better applied than to the pur-
poses of education.—(Cheers.) The system of education
adopted, against which such factious clamour has been
raised, was framed by Lord Stanley and has been patronised
by Sir Robert Peel. The Bill was rejected—at least it was
substantially rejected—because it was mutilated in such a
manner as to lead necessarily to its destruction.
" I shall next mention the Irish Corporation Bill.
Nov you are peculiarly well qualified to judge of the
wisdom and expediency of this measure. You had cor-
porations in Scotland which had completely usurped the
rights of the people, and much corruption, I am afraid,
existed in them ; but it was as nothing compared to the
abuses which prevailed in the Irish corporations. You ob-
tained Municipal Reform ; and, after a severe struggle,
Municipal Reform was also obtained for England, and in
consequence of that measure, in almost all the towns of Great
Britain there has been a marked improvement, and gene-
ral satisfaction prevails among all classes. Is it fair to with-
hold from Ireland what Scotland and England have ob-
tained? Yes, says my Lord Lyndhurst, because the Irish
are aliens in blood, aliens in language, and aliens in religion.
(Cheers.) He might have used the same arguments
against the Scottish Municipal Reform Bill ; but such ar-
guments in that case, would have been used in vain. You
would have indignantly raised your voices against such
language, and have insisted, as your ancestors did, upon
your right to acquire all those free institutions which are
enjoyed by your fellow•citizens.—(Cheers.) I know of no
other reasons for opposing that Bill, except that the Irish
are not always quiet and submissive ; and I am afraid,
till there be a change in the system of legislation for Ire-
land, it will not be difficult to cite instances of outrage
and tumult in that country ; for it is the law of our nature
that when we are oppressed we try to be revenged. I lately
heard from my Gallant Friend Sir Ronald Ferguson, that
that in all Scotland there are not more than 2,500 soldiers,
and these are maintained more for the sake of parade than
from any existing necessity to preserve order ; while in
Ireland it is necessary to station the great bulk of our stand-
ing army. Why ? because of the taunts of Lord Lynd-
hurst, and those who follow in his train—that the Irish are
aliens in blood, language, and religion. It happened in the
reign of Charles 11. that the great bulk of the English
army was employed in Scotland. And why ? Because
our ancestors were persecuted ; but so soon as they ob-
tained their rights, and were placed on an equal footing
with the rest of the community, peace returned to Scotland
—soldiers became unnecessary, the laws were honoured and
observed ; from similar causes similar effects will flow.

The Paris Journals of Wednesday have all been re-
ceived. The Moniteur contains the following official
communications :

" BAYONNE, Nov. 11, Six p.m.—Alaix has arrived at Tala-
vera, where he was to be joined on the Gth by Narvacz and his
division. Rodil was one day's march distant. They are to
operate together against Gomez, who is towards Caceres.
" Nov. 13, Halt-past Six p.m.---The Carlists resumed the
siege of Bilboa on the 7th, and took possession of two small
advanced works and their garrisons. Villareal, on the Bth,
observed Espartero, who continues in the valley of Mena.
General Lebcau on the same day made a reconnoissance upon
Estella and threw some shells into the place ; he also occn•
pied by force all the neighbouring villages, and returned to
Otevsa on the 9th.
"Nov. 14, at Noon.—The Carlists before Bilboa occupied
on the 10th San Mamez, and took 300 men and six pieces of
ordnance; Espartero stirred not. Cardero has left Madrid
with powers to deprive Alaix of his command, and confer it
upon Narvaez."
The capture of the fortified convent of San Mamez
by the Carlists was communicated to us at noon yes-
terday, and we were about to publish it when letters
were received stating that the account was a mere
fabrication. In the rest there is nothing either new or
important, with the exception of AL A IX'S disgrace by
command of the Madrid Government. We approve
of this measure. We cannot, however, congratulate
the Government upon its choice of the officer who is
to succeed ALAIX. General NARVAEZ is not distin-
guished for military exploits, and he is still less known
as a commander capable of great things, . even when
circumstances most favour their performance. By the
junction of the troops now under his command with
A LAIX'S division, he will be at the head of a force
of from eleven to twelve thousand strong—a force
equal to that now commanded by the War Mi-
nister. This is significant of still greater promotion.
If he be successful against the Carlists, and particu-
larly against GoMEZ, he will undoubtedly replace
Itonm hi the command of the army. The War Mi-
nister is manifestly tottering—a touch will upset him.
The French Chambers arc to commence their legis-