The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-16 00:00:00

evil-minded tlemagogues. They prayed that Government
would continue the grant. They also entered into the be-
nefits derived from the mode pursued by the Kildare-stree'
Sofiety. In the province of Ulster there were half a
million of Presbyterians of the Scotch Church, and that
province was distinguished by peace and good order, and bad
not cost the Government one twentieth part of the expence
in military, special commissions, &c.that other parts of the
country had done. He could not understand why the
Kildare-street Society was objected to, for of all institu-
tions there was none that operated more to bring the people
of different religious sects into unity than this.
Mr. SHELL addressed the House, but in so low a tone
es to be inaudible.
Mr. RUTHVEN said the funds of the Kildare-street
Society were not wholly applied to the purposes of edu-
cation, although the grant was made professedly for that
object ; and he stated also that the mode of education
tended to engender divisions among the people.
Mr. BRISCOE said, as a day was already fixed for the
discussion of this subject, he hoped that Hon. Members
would see that no good object would be gained by dis-
cussing it now on this petition.—(llear.)
Mr. C. PELHAM, Sir R. BaTxsoN, and Mr. Runi-
vx74, said a few words.
Mr. O'CONNELL was of opinion, that as they bad
only just reached the first clause of the Reform Bill, the
time of the House ought to be better occupies' than in this
way ; be merely begged to say that he had presented his
less than six petitions against the grant to the Kildare-
street Society.--The petition was read, and ordered to be

printed.
Sir R. BATESON next presented a similar petition
from the patrons, managers, and teachers connected with
the Belfast Sunday-school Union. praying that the House
would not withhold the usual grant to the Kildare-street
Society. The Belfast Sunday -school Union consisted of
no lees than two hundred and forty Sunday-schools,
but they were wholly unconnected with the Kildare-street
Society ; but the petitioners being concerned in the educa•
Lion of children in Ireland, felt it their duty to entreat
the Government not to withdraw the grant from a
Society which had done so much good.
The petition was read and ordered to he printed.
PETITIONS FROM FEMALES.
Mr. HUNT presented a petition from the married and
single women—(Loud and continued laughter)—living '
in Robert-street, Manchester, who were willing to back
their husbands and other relatives, whose petitions were
presented the other day ; they prayed for a repeal of the
corn laws, and a repeal of the East India monopoly. The
Hon. Member read a part of the petition, which stated
that " being induced to dispense with the natural diffidence
of their sex"—(Laughter)—they prayed for a repeal of the
corn laws, which were productive of great evil to the
country, which had reduced the price of labour, and raised
the price of every necessary of life. The House might laugh
at a petition coming from females, but he hoped they were not
so ungallant as to refuse a prayer coming from such a
quarter.
The petition was read and ordered to be printed.
Mr. WILKS presented a petition from the female in-
habitants of the pariah of Longford, in Coventry, praying
or the abolition of slavery in the West Indies.
Mr. H. HOWARD presented a petition from Shore-
ham in favour of the Reform Bill.
Lord CASTLEREAGH presented three petitions from
the county of Down in support of the grant to the Kildare-
street Society. The Noble Lord thought there seemed to
be a party feeling against this Society.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUME begged to state that his opposition to the
grant to this Society was merely on this ground, viz. that
it was given to one sect to superintend the education of
another ; it was given to the Protestants to superintend
the education of Catholic children, which cast a stigma
upon the Catholics which he was strongly opposed to.
After a few words from Sir J. NEWPORT,
Mr. LEFROY said it had gone abroad that a system of
proselytism prevailed in the management of the Society,
which he denied ; and be also denied that the system of
education was different from that which was professed.
Mr. O'CONNELL had for many years subscribed to
the Society, until he found a forced system of proselytism.
--(Loud cries of " No, no.") He repeated what he had
stated. Children were forced to the schools against the
wish of their parents. He knew numerous instances of it.
He bad established two schools fur 1,100 children, and his
brother had done the same; they did not receive a penny
from Kildare-street towards the schools, for he objected to
the mode of education pursued by the Society.—(Bear,
hear.) It was a direct insult to the Catholics, and
was a part of the system of the desperate Orange ,
faction.—(Bear, hear.) If they disposed of the money,
let them give it to the Protestants to educate the Protes-
tants, but not to enable the Protestants to educate the
Catholics.
Sir R. BATESON said he never heard a speech more
likely to continue the divisions and heart-turnings that
prevailed in Ireland than the speech of the Hon. and
Learned Member.
Captain GORDON thought that the interference of
the Roman Catholic Clergy hal been exceedingly unwar-
rantable, and that an attack made on Mr. Synge
by Father Murphy spoke loudly against the Clergy. No
change whatever had taken place in the system of the Kil-
dare-street Society, and no change had taken place in the
sentiments or minds of the Catholic people of Ireland,
whatever discontent might have arisen in the minds of the
Catholic Clergy.
Mr. GRATTAN hoped the Hon. Gentleman who bad
just sat down would be assured that Irishmen were quite
sufficient of themselves to arouse agitation and angry feel-
ing among the Irish, without either any Scotch or Eng-
lish gentlemen taking the trouble of going across to
that unhappy country for the purpose of creating
any greater discord. With respect to Mr. Synge
he (Mr. G) believed him to be a most excellent man, but
he had certainly beard that Mr. Synge insisted upon Iris
labourers' children attending his school, which undoubtedly
was exceedingly wrong, and no doubt touch of
the outrage that bad been committed upon him was owing
to this course of conduct. He thought the speeches de-
livered at Dublin by some of the Directors of the Society
(some of the gentlemen who had made these speeches were
in the House at the moment) contributed greatly to the odium
which at this time attached to the Society. He would
strongly recommend Iris Majesty's Government to intro-
duce into Ireland some national system of education—
(Hear, bear)—for that, in his opinion, was more likely
to do good and allay the bickerings that at present pre-
vailed than any thing else whatever.
An Hos. Mee sea believed that Father Murphy was a
man who would do nothing but that which in his con-
science he believed to be truly right and just. He
bad been through almost all the schools in Ireland, and had
paid attention to the Kildare-strreet School, and be had
round it almost entirely deserted,—willingly deserted
in consequence of the attempt at proselytism which had
b:en made.
Mr. ROBINSON deprecated such irregular discus-
sions as the present. He considered that the subject
ought to be no further debated until the motion for the
grant came before the House. He would however say it
was of no use attempting to force a system of education on any
set of people contrary to their convictions and judgments.
The money granted for such a purpose would not only be
thrown away, but must be misapplied ; and he sincerely
trusted that when the subject of this grant came before
the House, the House would institute some rigid inquiry
into the manner in which what had already been granted
had been applied.
Mr. MAURICE O'CONNELL was sorry he was not
in the House when the present discussion commenced.
He had been informed that it had been said that
there had been no act of persecution on the part of
Mr. Synge. lie would put it to the House to say
whether the turning out of the whole of a family
en the road—the forcing of them into a state of starve-
them any sustenance whatever, and with-
4one...refusing
holding from them every thing but that which the strict-
neee of the law forced them to give (which Heaven knew
was little enough), because the father would not permit his
children to go to the Kildare-street School, was or was not
an act of persecution. This was only one instance of
what be considered an act of gross persecution on the part
of Mr. Synge, and numbers of others might be stated.
As to the Rev. Gentleman who had been alluded to, and
who was now on hie death-bed, he could only say, that if
any person, and particularly the Hon. Member for Dundalk,
would attend to his profession and concerns as diligently
and a.a exclusively as Father Murphy had been in the habit
during a long life of doing, there would neither be so much
religious discord in Ireland, nor so many angry bickerings
in the House of Commons respecting the state of that poor
country.
Mr. HUNT said that as those grants of money uni-
formly occasioned an acrimonious struggle between two
parties which should have their disposal, the only way to
prevent angry discussion was to remove its source. It was
an old and perhaps trite, but very true observation, that
when two dogs were quarrelling for a bone, the only way
to terminate the dispute was to take away the bone.
Mr. SHEIL would not enter into the discussion of the
subject at present, but would suggest that if there had
been any premature enactment, thei guilt did not lie on
that portion
himself Members of tb I use to which he
considered i particularly attached. He begged
leave tie ask, wherefore, on all bands, was .there
an effort made to throw disrespect and fasten the stigma
and reproach on the Roman Citbelic clergy. :\rii class of
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