The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-24 00:00:00

a-aye the ive of even one word which might offend the feelings of
:yen cna Member of that House.-s 4 dicers. ) •
Lord J. lITITSSE'LL felt great T airs hi being obliged to state that
be had heard nallirier Whiell &m id .indoce him to alter the resolu-
tion in the way they bad stiggesied:-T(fOud cheers from the Mi-
nisterial benches.) In saying this, lid Yit'pe4 h Should be undar-
st:aal as not unwilling so to frame the resointiqn rta to meet the
wishes of the Hon. and Gallant Colonel, and of oi.!?ert :who felt
sensitively on limit subject, if he could do so without departin' from
that which lie eonsidered his duty on the present occasion. It eliw
appear to him, after What had occurred last year, that a necessity
had arisen for potting al end to all secret associations, and that
the House Was bound to declare its opinien, whether those so-
cieties were injurious, or otherwise, to the public tranquillity.
fie did not th'ipk, theijf"re• that the House would meet the case
,
fairly unless .);::,?_liition the words " Orange
Lodges." It was beyond coftt! vii !he previous de-
bate had referred to *those societies, but .11111-Xl4 what had oc-
curred, and after mentioning other societies in general, 'l4!, Was their
duty to riteiltkat tlaoae in particular ; and he owned that lie did tint
see why I-ton: dentleinett 141.91441 think that the use of those won,:
implied a stigma ors them s there was no opinion pronounced as to
the leftaity of these societies—there was nothing more said than
that these, as Well riS other secret societies should receive the disap-
probation of the Groan. tinder these circumstances, he regretted
his inability to comply With the suggestion of his Noble Friend.
Sir R. PErdi regretted that the Noble Lord should not have
given way to the 4Uggesition of his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley),
for he oeirsed that,though !lc (Sir Robert Peel) was prepared to
assent to the Ps'c't..-te laSrit's (Jo!!t! Russell's) amendment, it was
not without great sacrif.jec of copiniort. He objected to pro-
ceetlitlg aly resolution ; he thought, they ought to indicate the will
of the Legislatiti . ti law rather by a resolution of one
branch of it. They ought g'ttidiously to avoid a course by which a
dominant majority of that House et. 4414 denoune9 any party.—
Indepently of his own feeling on the subject; lie objected to the
words which had been used that Orange socieilass were illegal.
The Hon. Baronet who had seconded the resolution had declared
that all those societies were contrary to the law of the land,
and added that the Attorney-General had nothing to do but to
institute prosecutions in order to have them so declared by the
courts of law. Now, if that was so, it was a powerful objection to
this resolution, because if they believed that the members of Orange
Societies ought to be prosecuted, and were amenable to the law,
they ought not to send them to trial loaded with the declared opi-
nion of that House as to their guilt.—( Hear, hear, and cheers. )
acquiteeence of that (the Opposition) side in the resolution of
the Noble 1,,'fl Vas not that of a reluctant, minority ; they
had come to the lions' Prepared to acquiesce in a resolution
couched in nearly the sanie n'firda as that of the Noble Lord.—
( Hear, hear.) They had not expected his amendment ; they
were prepared to propose the criminatory resolution of the Ho-
nourable Member for Middlesex ; but when th'v heard the ex-
pressed declaration of' many Honourable Member;thzt they were
to discountenance all secret societies, haying secret signs, and ex-
cluding persons ott account of difference in religious sentiments.
This was the address to which they were prepared to agree before
they knew the eonrse whieh the Njble Lord intended to take ; and,
after what had beets stated by Hon. Members at that (the Opposi-
tion) side of the House, lie ihotight the most effectual mode of sup-
pressing taeetet societies would be by withdrawing words which wero
found offensive td those from whose example and influence they
prepared to give up all catttlettion with such associations, on hear-
ing an expression of the will of the Crown to that effect, they
thought that the object of that House and of the Government
would be sufficiently answered by the resolution which an Hon.
Member (Mr. Wilson Patten) has expressed his intention of
moving, which was, that an humble Address be presented to
his Majesty, praying that his Majesty might be graciously pleased
to take such steps as to his Majesty might seem most desirable
might eiapeet co-operation in their great object. That great ob-
ject was to retitete tranquillity to Ireland. His Hon. and Gallant
Friends on that side were disposed to make a great sacrifice for that
purpoSe: If those Hon. Members who objected to the wording of
the resoluatiti it* proposed by the Noble Lord, did not choose to
press their objection, they might save the house a division ; but,
if they did, he felt that ilffAlt the declarations they had made he
could not abandon them. He =of, therefore, vote with them.
Mr. O'CONNELL had come to the House prepared to vote for
the Resolution of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, but he
would not do so, because it might appear to be the triumph
of a party. He wanted no such triumph, and if it were not
for the sake of distinctness in the resolution, he would vote for
the omission of the words objeeted to on the other side.
After the candid and manly declarations of the Honourable
members opposite, he thought that no stigma could be passed
on any Orange. Lodge by the wording of the proposed
resolution. He looked upon the words re Orange Lodges "as a
mere specification, and if Hon. Members opposite would point
out by name any other secret association existing in Ireland
which it was desirable to put down, he would most willingly consent
to its being introduced into the resolution. When the Act passed
which was intended to put down the Catholic Association in Ire-
land, it was declared that it was intended to apply to all political
associations, Orange Societies included ; the Act, however, by
the very first clause, put an end perpetually and by name
to the Catholic Associations,l but that was not consi-
dered by, the Catholics as any particular stigma intended against
them. In the same light should the words " Orange Societies" be
taken in the presen', resolution. The Hon. and Gallant Member
for Armagh did not appear to participate in the sentiment expressed
by his Hon. Friends ; on the contrary he seemed to stand on the
difference, and certainly no man had more influence if he thought
fit to take that part. Let the vote of the House that night,
however, be recorded on the books as an unanimous vote, and as
a guide to future Governments, in case any Government should
hereafter be addressed by Orange Lodges. He felt that no triumph
could he gained over Orange lodges by the vote of the House that
night, after the speeches of Hon. Members who had set such an
admirable example, and whose loyalty was a sufficient shield and
protection against any stigma that might be aimed at them.—( Hear
and cries of " Question.") He repeated that he considered the
term in the amendment as a mere specification, and not involving
any species of disgrace.—(Divide.) '
Mr. R. PLUNKETT rose amidst loud cries of " Question."
He assured the House that the party with which he was connected
would sincerely and promptly follow the commands of his Majesty
whenever they were made known through the responsible officers
of the Crown ; and that he would use his influence in the county
with which he connected to pat down all secret societies.
Mr. SHAW entreated his Hon. Friends who were connected
with Orange societies, under all the circumstances, rather to
subnilt to some little pain which they might feel if the words were
retained, than to divide the House.—(Hear.) At the same time
he could have wished that the Noble Lord had omitted the objec-
tionoble phrase.—( Question. )
Mr. A. LEFROY, though he could not vote for the Noble
Lord's amendment, was unwilling to divide the House—.,(Que„
Lion ! ")
Mr. FLUME considered his own resolution the best, but after
what had passed, he would not press for a division.—(" Hear," and
" Question !")
Mr. E. J. COOPER was of opinion that if the words were
allowod to remain, the _ mass of Orangemen in that county would
think it a stain and stigma.—(Cries of " Question," and " Read."
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but the amendment was
agreed to without a division.
The noose then adjourned at a Quarter before Two o'Clock.