The Sun.
London, England, 1831-12-19 00:00:00

,'- A

the course of which Strafford was impeached and be-
headed, and next the long Parliamens was assembled."—
(Cheers-) The Hon. Gentleman, having examined
Hume, no doubt, with due diligence and care, came
down to the House to answer the Hon. Member for Caine,
with his quotations already marked, and the whole history
at his fingers' ends. But he produced information such as
the House had never heard before; and when the
whole argument was so unsound, and the facts so misre-
presented, he (Mr. Stanley) would feel himself inex•
curable if he omitted to answer them even at that lste
hour, and on that particular night. Did he not
know, or, knowing, did he shrink from stating—(Much
cheering from both sides)--did not the Right Hon.
Gentleman know that 1640 was the year when Charles
was compelled, by his own wants, to depart from his flagi-
tious and unconstitutional conduct, and to truckle to the
Commons of England? That be then, for the first time,
after eleven years had passed by without calling a Parlia-
ment together, called together the Parliament in question,
which was not the Long Parliament, and had nothing to
do with the Triennial Bill.--(Hear, hear.) Did the
Right Hon. Gentleman not know too that after this, the
longest suspension of Parliaments that ever had been
ventured upon since we had a Constitution, and not until
the King had, in this manner, violated the fundamental
laws of the realm—after attempting to force Episcopacy
on Scotland—after having carried the abuses of oppressive
monopolies to the most alarming excess, in defiance of
Parliament, and repeated declarations of the Commons, de-
nouncing such practices as illegal and oppressive ; levying
heavy stamp and other duties, enforcing ship-money from
his subjects, and in every way straining the prerogative, as
if, es his Hon, and Learned Friend the Member for Caine
had said—he thought it became a Prince of the House
of Stuart to attempt that which had been done so often by
a Prince of the line of Tudor ;—that, when extortion would
go no further —when he had reduced the finance of the
country to the lowest ebb, and his Exchequer to absoltoe
beggary, then, and not till then, (lid that tyrannical
Monarch, appalled by the spirit of a people he could no
further oppress, turn at last for succour to that Parlia-
ment which, whilst he could safely (10 it, and had the
power, he insulted, spurned, and trampled upon ? When
he called them together again what did he ?—he honoured
them with some soft words—some flattering expressions,
which they knew too well to trust to. When they talked
of grievances and abuses which had gone on rapisily in-
creasing (luring the long interval which had taken' place—
having at length met together to deliberate upon those
grounds of complaint—he spoke to them of subsidies. A
little longer did this system of extortion go on—corrup-
tion and abuses were openly encouraged—for what? Al!
to carry on this unsuccessful struggle against the liberties
of the people of England. But again the Monarch was
defeated—again he had to how to that Parliament he had
spurned, and a long course of arbitrary tyranny soon
afterwarbs ended—as tyranny will always end sooner or
later—in base, timid, and despicable concession.—(Loud
cheers.) But this long Parliament—for it was the long
Parliament—not the first short one, as the Hon. Gentle-
man snpposed—passed the Triennial Act. And yet the Hon.
Gentleman had attempted to show the House how mar-
vellously exact the parallel was in all its circumstances. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had said that the two cases so per-
fectly coincided, that really they seemed to have been made
purposely for each oilier, and in support of this asser-
tion he read to the House an extract from a celebrated
author. He (Mr. S.) could not help thinking that the
quotation would have been more appropriate if the Right
Hon. Gentleman had read the passage immediately pre-
ceding. "By this Bill," said Hume—no great friend, it
must be admitted, to popular liberty----" some of the
noblest and most valuable prerogatives of the Crown were
retrenched ; but, at the same time, nothing could be more
necessary than such a st ttute for completing a regular
plan of law and liberty. A great reluctance to assemble
Parliaments must be expected in the King where these
assemblies, as, of late, established it as a maxim to carry
their scrutiny into every part of Government. During
long intermissions of Parliament, grievances and abuses,
as was fount by recent experience, would naturally creep
in, and it would even become necessary for the King
and Council to exert a great discretionary authority, by
acts of state to supply, in every emergency, the legisla-
tive power, whose meeting was so uncertain and precarious.
Charles, finding that nothing less would satisfy his Parlia-
ment and people, at last gave his assent to this Bill, which
produced so great an innovation in the Constitution." Then
the Right Hon. Gentleman went on to infer that Charles hav-
ing conceded these paints,`liis concession was fatal. But the
Right Hon. Gentleman very ingeniously read a passage which
referred to another Bill, dated twelve months afterwards,
and would have the House to understand that this Bill was
the cause of the events which afterwards ensued. Was this
the exact parallel to the present case ? Was this the Bill
which was forced upon a reluctant House of Lords to the
invasion of their privileges? Why, what was the fact
with respect to this Bill? What say Hume and Claren-
don ? " The Bill passed rapidly through both Houses,
though it met with some difficulties on the part of the
King"—difficulties which were probably easily accounted
for by the doctrine of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself.
It was very true that, as years rolled on, and oppression
and grievances multiplied, and as the people found they
were wronged and deceived, and as they deemed the Mo-
narch was injuring them more and more, the Members of
this House broke out into excesses, which no man could
defend, and of which God forbid we should again ever see
the like ! When was this ? When the King had sub-
scribed the declaration of the army offering to guard him
against his Parliament—when he attempted to exercise an
improper controul over the deliberations of this House
nay more, when five of its Members had been attempted to
be seized by the Crown—then, and then only, did this
House assert its dignity; and God forbid that, under the
British Constitution, it should have adopted any other
line of conduct ! When the Crown ceased to re-
spect the privileges, and dared to violate the sanctity,
of this House of Commons, did any man be-
lieve that the insulted House of Commons, or the
people of England, would continue to respect the pri-
vileges of the Crown itself ?—(Loud cheers.) One more
passage, and one more only, before he concluded his
exposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman's parallel—a pa-
rallel about as accurate and as fitting as that which he at-
tempted to draw between the state of this country and of
France. He said he knew not what they wou'd have in
France ;—they had a flee representation—a I,beral Re-
forming Ministry—and, with a sneer, he added, they have
a patriot King. He knew not whether this were the pa-
rallel which the Hon. Gentleman meant to draw—if it
were, he would say that it was certainly as accurate, if not
more so, than the parallel which he attempted to draw
between the days of 1640 and the times at which we were
now arrived—eventful periods both. His Hon. and
Learned Friend had truly said alai; the history of by-gone
times was written for our learning ; and to examine into
the history of those times partially was, like a little learn..
ing, a dangerous thing. What was the natural and neces-
sary deduction to be drawn from the history of the years
—not from 1640 to 1645, but from 1627 to 1640? If
he wished for a parallel, let him look at the delay that oc-
curred between 1627 and 1640, and then let him compare
it with the delay which took place between 1819 and 1830.
But to return, what was the deduction ? That a concession
of the Crown in time—a concession to reason and justice
—to the advancing spirit of the age, and the altered con-
dition of society, were the firmest supports of, and the
best basis upon which the Monarchy could rest, and
that the people would not tamely see a Monarch en-
deavouring to trample upon their liberties, and invade
their rights, without at last compelling him to acknow-
ledge the force of the iron hand of necessity which was
upon him, and basely to truckle to the power that
he would have crushed.—(Cheers;) He (Mr. Stanley)
was about to read one more short passage ; and, although
he had already trespassed on the attention of the House at
some length, he trusted he might be permitted to do so,
because it might tend to bear out the opinion he had ex-
pressed with regard to the danger of delay, and the ne-
cessity and advantage of early concession. Clarendon, in
speaking of the alte red circumstances of the times, the
Parliament
necessity of the being called together, and their
behaviour when the King was again compelled to meet
them, used this language:—" There was observed a mar-
vellous change in the countenances of many of the Mem-
bers since they before met together in the House—some,
who six months before were of moderate temper, and who
only wished that general remedies might be applied with-
out opening the wound too wide, and rather to cure what
was amiss than at once to institute an inquiry, now in
another tone spoke of things and persons; and said that
they must now be in another temper than they were dur-
ing the last Parliament; they must not only sweep the
House clean both above and below, but they must pull
down all the cobwebs that were to be found in the corners,
so that they might not breed dust, and make a foul
House." This was one of the lessons that was written
for our learning, if we chose to read them. There
was no man, he thought, who, having done so, would
venture to deny, whatever might be his opinion of
the danger of this Bill, that it might not, in one,
two, or three years, be aggravated to a considerable
extent ; nor could be deny that, if the course of Govern-
ment should go on for so long, delay could still be perse-
vered in without producing a convulsion, which no Ad-
ministration could remove--which all must lenient—

which might be foreseen, but could not in that ;;; be

avoided. He must say that he thought his lion. and

Learned Friend had been treated rather harshly by the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, who really misrepre-
sented the observations which fell from him, and con-
demned him for making use of an argument, not less able
and eloquent than true and instructive. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman truly told us that as the march of
society went on, and as century succeeded century, and as
increasing intelligence succeeded to the intelligence of
former days, so the Government must shape their course
according to the feelings, temper, and opinions of the
times; and even those who best guided the political ma-
chine were themselves driven onwards by the power of a
mighty and irresistible current, whose course, although
they might guide, they could never stop. In the propriety,
truth, and force of the argument so beautifully and power-
fully urged by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he should
have imagined all who heard him would have concurred.
He would ask the House whether this observation was
sufficient to justify the Right Hon. Gentleman in saying
that his Hon. and Learned Friend admitted that we,
who endeavoured to guide the great political ma-
chine down the stream, were nothing but the use-
less creatures of a mob, hurried forward by a course
which they could neither resist nor controul ?
that we were passive tools in the hands of others ?
Ile could only say that he, for one, could not agree with
those Honourable Gentlemen who seemed to consider that
the passions of a mob were the proper ad measurement of
our feelings or our wishes. His Hon. anti Learned Friend
had truly told us that the form of Government must give
place to the form of society; that Governments were
made fur men, -not men for them; and that it would be
equally dangerous for the Princes of the House of Hanover
to attempt to govern us as the Stuarts had formerly, as it
was for Charles, who, determined to stretch his rules to
the utmost, endeavoured to sway the sceptre of England
as others had years before, and who, finally, thought that
men in the seventeenth century possessed the same feelings,
and that society was in the same state, as when the race
of the Tudors wore the British Crown. God forbid that
we should not have sufficient foresight, sufficient wisdom
to save the country by going along, not with the mob, but
with the country itself, by timely repairing institutions,
the necessity of some change in which few men denied, and
by complying with the demands of the people, which, as
they could not be silenced—as they could not be concealed
—as they could not be overcome, must finally prevail, to
the danger of those ' who had delayed gratifying
them. We had here our choice, whether we should
legislate temperately or usefully, for the benefit of the
Constitution and all classes of his Majesty's subjects, or
whether we should promote scenes, the nature of which he
would not venture to predict, and which God forbid any
man should live to see !—(The Right Hon. Gentleman
was loudly cheered at the conclusion of his speech.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL—Sir, at this hour of the night,
and in this stage of the debate, when so short a time is
left, before, according to the prevailing feeling of the
House, it would wish to proceed to a division, I should
have most earnestly desired to have been enabled at once
to address myself to those argumen's in favour of the me t-
sure which are supposed to be still left standing, without
reference to any topic of a private or personal nature. But,
Sir, in the course of this discussion the Honourable and
Learned Member for Caine, on the third occasion of his
taking a part in it, has thought proper to introduce some
topics unconnected altogether with the merits of the ques-
tion, and has addressed himself to me personally, in a man-
ner to which I should be unworthy of the situation which
I hope I hold within the House, if I could permit this de-
bate to close without making some reference. I should
have thought the Hon. and Learned Gentleman having
three times made a speech on the subject of Reform, and
having each time taunted me with my conduct on the
Catholic question, might now have left these topics
alone, and not have come down to the House, after an
interval of two months, with all the " sweltered venom"
he has been enabled to collect during the time which has
elapsed since his last attack upon me.—(Cheers from the
Opposition.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman charges
me with some unworthiness, or some ingratitude, for the
course lam now pursuing towards Ministers ; he thinks
I had contracted some obligation which imposes upon me
the necessity of returning the compliment which I re-
ceived upon the last introduction of the Catholic question.
Says the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, vs-hat a contrast
between your conduct and the conduct of Ministers !
When you proposed Catholic Emancipation, they agreed
with you, and handsomely supported you : when they pro-
pose Reform, why don't you cordially and handsomely sup-
port them ? Why, simply on this ground, because they
agreed with me on the subject of Catholic Emancipation,
and because, unfortunately, I differ from them on the sub-
ject of Parliamentary Reform. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman charges me with what amounts in substance,
though not in phrase, too little less than gross and almost
corrupt apostacy. He insinuates that I, having opposed
the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts, and opposed
Catholic Emancipation, came forward for the purpose of
securing my continuance in office, and appropriated to my-
self the honour which belonged to others. Sit, I have
long remained silent under these charges. In the first
place, I thought the time had hardly come when it was
right, with reference to the public, that I could attempt
to place my conduct in its proper light; and I
felt the snore confident in leaving these charges
unnoticed because I knew that the time was come, when,
although I might be chargeable with an error in judg-
ment, my defence, in point of integrity in undertaking the
settlement of the Catholic question, should be put beyond
the possibility of doubt. I did not undertake the settle-
ment of the Test and Corporation Acts—for I take the
first of the charges of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.
As Minister of the Crown, I opposed the question when
brought forward by the Noble Lord. I was beaten and
left in a minority on that occasion, and being left in a
minority I did not attempt to defraud him of any of the
honour which belonged to the settlement of it ; but
privately believing, after the vote of the house, that it
was better the question should be settled, I attempted an
amicable and satisfactory settlement. But, says the Hon-
Gentleman, having out of office opposed the question, and
having declared from that place that you would continue
to oppose it, why, when your opinions did not prevail, did
you not resign? Such is the blind hostility of the Hon.
Gentleman that he cannot make an attack upon me with-
out wielding a two-edged sword which wounds some
friend. Is it an imputation on Ministers that when they
cannot carry into effect their own measures they must ne-
cessarily resign ? If it be, why do the present Ministers re-
main in office? I make no charge upon them for remaining
in office, but it is not fair to infer improper conduct be-
cause Ministers remain in office; but I will appeal to the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and I will appeal to any man
when I relate the whole truth, whether I was not justified
in remaining in office, although my opposition to the Teat
and Corporation Acts did not prevail? I was called to
office on the 9th of July, 1828. There haul been three
changes in the King's Government. Lord Goderich's Go-
vernment had existed for eight months. There were three
parties in the State—the Tory party, the Whig party, and
the friends of Mr. Canning. In Lord Goderich's Govern-
ment two of those parties had been united. That Govern-
ment broke up. You talk of men abandoning their posts,
and who quitted and resigned office in the face of difficul.
ties, in Ib2B. Why did Lord Goderich's Government
break up ? I never yet heard the satisfactory cause. It
failed not in consequence of opposition in Parliament ; it
failed to meet Parliament, and in the month of January the
Duke of Wellington and myself were called upon to form a
Government. We were obliged to postpone the meeting
of Parliament for one week, and we were told to form a
Government in the interval. We met Parliament. On Feb.
26 came on the question of the Test and Corporation Acts.
I opposed it, and we were beaten. Does any man suppose
it would have been fit for a Ministry, one mbnt}i after two
other parties who composed the Government had left, to
leave the King upon the settlement of that question ? That
is my defence against the accusation relative to the Test
and Corporation Acts—the impropriety of leaving the
King without a Government one month after the two
other parties in the State had left. Now, upon the sub-
ject of the heavier charge of the Catholic question. For
several years in this House I had taken a most active part
in opposition to that question. I had so taken it from
the great doubt I entertained, whether the removal of Ro-
man Catholic disabilities would restore tranquillity to Ire-
laod- I maintained that opposition in an uncompromising
manner, avoiding, as far as was possible, to provoke aspe-
rity by my conduct ; but at the same time offering decided
and unqualified opposition. In the year 1828, having
offered that opposition in office, I was again left in a
minority. There were circumstances, which the time has
not yet come fully to explain, that did leave the strongest
impression on my mind that there was more danger in con-
tinuing resistance to, than attempting a settlement of, the
sqi
usnt question.icoen mr
ati
ena
oved t oiunintuceenh
at
ons
unchanged—not
be off
_ot hffna, tor
etm y opinion upon that
d ,my but opinion
doubts
t and
d-
apprehensions that the evils of Ireland were not attribut-
able so much to the exclusion of Roman Catholics from
offices in the State, as to a state of society which placed
the great mass of the population in opposition to your reli-
gious institutions which
gave property to the few, and
numbers to the many. I always entertained great appre-
hensions that the removal of Roman Catholic disabilities
might not fulfil the expectations which were entertained ;
but I thought that, in the divided state of the Protestant
Church—Parliament having time after time—not on the
first agitation of the question, as in the case of Reform,

but repeated and successive Parliaments having been
qually balanced—after a conflict of years—l thought it
was hopeless to maintain the contest ; hut this I
lid feel at the same time, that nothing_ could
he more unfortunate than that I should be the individual
to undertake the settlement of the question. It was not
for the sacrifices I might personally be called upon to
make because those sacrifices I always meant to
make ; but I did feel this, that it was unfortunate I must
necessarily lose the entire confidence of the party with
' whom I acted ; and I did feel it unfortunate for the cha-
racter of public men generally, that I, who had maintained
a most decided opposition to the question, should be the
individual to introduce the very measure I had so long op-
posed. Sir, I happened to be from London in the sum-
mer of 1826, and I wrote my opinion to my Noble Friend
on the subject of the Catholic question—on the policy of
attempting to settle it, and my view of the impolicy of
my being the individual to originate the subject. I stated
to him—" I have thus written to you without reserve
upon the first and great question of all—the policy
of seriously considering this long-agitated question with a
view to its adjustment. I have proved to you, I trust, that
no false delic icy in respect of past declarations of opi-
nions—no fear of the imputation of inconsistency will pre-
vent me from taking that part which present dangers, and
the new position of affairs, may require. lam ready, at
the hazard of any sacrifice, to maintain the opinion which
I now deliberately give—that there is, upon the whole,
less of evil in making a decided effort to settle the Ca-
tholic question, than leaving it, as it has been left, an
open question—Government being paralysed and unde-
cided, and the consequence of that indecision being on
many occasions injurious. I must, at the same time, ex-
press my strong opinion that it would not conduce to a
satisfactory adjustment of the question that the charge of
it in the House of Commons should be committed to my
hands. I put all personal feelings out of the question ;
they ought to be matters of subordinate consideration; and
I give the best proof of my disregard of them by avowing
that I am quite ready to quit office, and to support the
measure of concession. INIy support will be more useful if
I give it with the candour with which it can be given out
of office. Any authority that I may possess in attempting
to reconcile the Protestants to the measure, will be in-
creased by my retirement. I have been too deeply com-
mitted on this question, and expressed too strong an opi-
nion in respect to it—too much jealousy and distrust of
the Roman Catholics, too touch apprehension of the imme-
diate and remote consequences of proceeding to remove the
disabilities under which they labour, to make it advan•
tageous to the King's service that I should be the indivi-
dual to originate the measure." I read this letter for
the purpose of showing that I did not undertake the settle-
ment of the question with a view of depriving the Hon.
Gentleman of the credit. I remained in office, not
intending to come down and propose the measure
till the month of January, 1629, under the impression
that I should be enabled to take part in it in my private
capacity alone; but in the month of January it was
proved to me, by evidence which will carry conviction
to every mind, that my retirement from office, with the
opinions entertained by the King upon the Catholic ques-
tion, would preclude the settlement of it, and I wrote a
letter to my Noble Friend, in which I stated to him that I
still earnestly hoped—that it was the earnest wish of my
heart—that I should avoid the painful situation—not only
painful to myself, but disparaging to the character of pub-
lic men. But knowing the difficulties with which he was
at that time surrounded, 1 said—" I will have no reserve.
I know all the difficulties of your situation—l know how
these difficulties arise. If say retirement should prove, in
your opinion, after the communication which you may
have with the King, or with those whom it m y be neces-
sary for you to consult, an insuperable obstacle to the im-
mediate adoption of the course which upon the whole I
believe least open to objection, under all the circumstances
—in that case you shall command any future service that
I can render." These are the original documents. 'The
memorandum on the letter is this—" On the day I wrote
this letter, the Archbishop of Canter bury and the Bishops
of London and Durham had an interview with the Duke
of Wellington, and propounded arid declared to him that
they must give their decided opposition to the proposed
Bill for the relief of the Roman Catholics." That was
the 12th of June. Had not the opposition of the Bishops
made it impossible to carry the measure, unless Leon-
sented to remain in office and incur all the odium of
proposing it, no consideration upon earth should have
induced me to stand in that place and propose the settle-
ment of the Catholic question ; but if my retirement
placed insuperable obstacles in the way of its settlement, I
appeal to every man of honour whether, when I advisee
the King 4Cgive up his own scruples—when his Majesty
said to me,.." If you ask me to make this sacrifice, will
you refuse to make it ?" Could I, as a subject of the King,
and for such an object, have refused ?—( Hear.) These
were the circumstances under which I undertook it, and I
think I have shown that if I did undertake it, it was not
for the purpose of robbing the original proposers of the
honour. Then the Hon. Gentleman proceeds to attributu
all the consequences arising from the rejection of the Re-
form Bill to my pertinacious opposition to Reform. But
before I state this, I must repeat again that the conduct or
the party which originally proposed and advocated Catho-
lic emancipation, in giving we their cordial support dur-
ing the whole of the debate on that question, and abstain-
ing from a course which might have thrown difficulties in
the way of its settlement, was conduct dictated, I believe,
by pure and honourable motives, and entitling that party
to respect and gratitude. I said so at the time, and
I retain that opinion ; but does the Honourable Gen-
tleman think that because that party gave me their
support, I contracted any obligation which compels me
‘• With 'bated breath and whispering humbleness," to
shrink from disscussion in this House? Am Ito re-
turn the compliment by abating my opposition upon
Reform ? Ant I not to labour to point out errors in the
conduct of the King's Government, if I think there are
errors, and to give to the question of Reform my most
strenuous and persevering opposition ? If I thought I
was disqualified from doing so, I would abdicate nay luns
thins in this House, and not stand here to offer a sham
opposition—to compliment the Government, and with
weak arguments oppose them. I feel that lam at liberty
to take what course I please upon the subject of Reform,
and that I am not at liberty to fritter away my oppositior,
in return for the support I formerly received. Great part
of the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman turns upon
this question ; not, is this measure calculated to benefit
the complicated interests of the country ? but, who are the
parties who have produced the present excitement ? There
is an enlarged view of its adaptation to present circum-
stances. The assumption is that there is a pressure of ex-
ternal force which cannot be resisted. We roust give way
not to our own deliberate reason and judgment ; but there
is no alternative left but to satisfy the cravings of the
people, whether rational or not—and you, says the Hon.
Gentleman, are the cause of all this. Says the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman, " Ten years since, you that
had eyes could have seen, you that had ears could have
heard, and your that had legs could have walked." It
it be really a question of importance to settle the rela-
tive proportion of the claims of the different parties,
will the Hon. and Learned Gentleman have the goodness
to ask the Marquis of Lansdowne why he, ten years since,
having eyes to see, ears to hear, and legs to walk, neither
saw, heard, nor walked, but was, I believe, a quiet oppo-
nent of Parliamentary Reform? It is unfortunate for gen•
damn to commit thetnselves by such appeals. Why, in
the year 1827, did we see the Marquis of Lansdowne,
together with other Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite—
(Cheers)—taking part in Mr. Canning's Government,
after he had declared, to the last moment of his life, he
should be opposed to Parliamentary Reform ?—(Cheers.)
And on this point I find a passage in " Mr. Stapleton's
Memoirs of Mr. Canning," stating that all the Cebinet
were united in saying that the question of Parliamentary
Reform would not be supported by any Member of the
Government.—(Cheers.) I see this, then, that men
differing from myself upon other questions—men ac-
tuated by no dishonourable motives, but taking what are
supposed to be large and comprehensive views of the affairs
of this country,—dreaded the opening of the question of
Parliamentary Reform. The Noble Lord was asked why
he objected to accede to his former small motions of Re-
form ? But can he ask this question, after having hiinselt
told us that to those who made the slightest concession he
would address himself in the words of Cromwell—
(Cheers)—" The Lord has delivered
them into my hand ?"
—(Cheers.) I must say that I think it rather hard that
the Noble Lord should in this manner exonerate those
who have even refused to make the slightest abate-
ment, arid fasten himself upon me, because 1 believe I
once stated that I should be willing to transfer the fran-
chise of a second Grampound to Manchester. Neither
do I feel that I have been fairly dealt with by the Hen.
and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Alacauley), who had taken
occasion to compliment me on having sung my Palinodium.
Mr. MACAULEY—I did not mention you ; the term
was directed to the Right Hon. Ex-Secretary to the
Admiralty. All that was meant was, that the Right
Hon. Baronet's party took the whole credit to themselves
of measures for the improvement of our systems of juris
prudence, commercial laws, and foreign policy, which had
been forced on their reluctant conviction by the party
now in office.

Sir ROBERT PEEL.—No; the Hon. and Learned
Geuti•man did not mention me, but the sarcasm was not
the lees pointed.—(Cheers.) But I can assure the House

that, so far from having taunted the Government with
adopting my principles in their new Bill, I hale al; e tdy
•tated it as my opinion that the essential principles or the
Rill
unchanged. What I did say, on a former
'tight was, that I thought the country was in a better si-
tuation by being afforded the opportunity of re-considsTing-
tnie measure ; for which reason I considered that we kiti!
lead a great escape, and felt thankful to the House of Lords
for having acted as it had done.—(Cheers.) 1 repeat
again that we have had a great escape in the rejection of
the last Bill. The Lords believed it to be pregnant with
evil consequences, and, therefore, rejected it. They did
r•ght. I rejoice at the conduct which they pursued. I
believe that it was better for their own dignity—better for
the security of their order as a constituent part of
die constitutional body—and better for the permanent
interests of the country at large, than if they did suf-
fer any feeling arising from the circumstances of the
times to warp them from the on!y.,,correct course
which they could pursue. But, as far as I can see, not
only do I rejoice in this, but the Noble Lord ought also to
rejoice, for it has given him an opportunity of improving
Ins Bill, and of congratulating himself upon the superior
beauty of the daughter over the mother. We have heard
the boast of the opposite side, this evening, of "Mater
pulehra, filia pulehrior." lam sure the Noble Lord's
gallantry must lead him to rejoice that it is the daughter
and not the mother which he was to embrace.—(A laugh,
and cheers.) But, after all, when it is considered that I
live in the very neighbourhood of those meetings to whom
I have been denounced as " the whisper of a faction"—
(Cheers)—to whom I have been held up by the Press of
the country as a fit subject, not for arguments, but for
brickbats—(Cheers)--I think that it is a little too much
to find fault with me for vindicating a course which an
honest and honourable party pursued, and by which they
have afforded an opportunity for what the Government
thinks an improvement in the Bill.—(Cheers.) I think,
however, that after what we have heard in the course of
this debate we must no longer hear of the principles of
this Bill being argued on the ground of the Constitution.
The Noble Lord dissents from this, I see; but has he not
himself said this evening that, if it had been his fortune to
have lived at the perio I of the Revolution, he himself
would have voted for Roman Catholic exclusion, and
fur the maintenance and continuance of the small En-
roughs.—(Loud cheers.) But surely, if these small bo-
roughs are now contrary to tile spirit of the Constitu-
tion, they would have been equ illy so at the time of
the Revolution, and it would, consequently, have been
out of the power of the Noble Lord to have voted
in their support.—(Hear, hear.) Respecting as I do the
constitutional and legal knowledge of the Noble Lard, I
heard with surprise the allusion which he made to the
Bill of Rights, and the interpretation which he put upon
the words contained in it—that elections should be free.
That declaration by no means referred to the small bo-
roughs, but to the circumstances mentioned in the pre-
amble, which arose out of the interference of King James
11. with the election of Members, and which is particu-
larly described by Reresby, who gives an account of his
being desired by the King to stand for York, to which he
assented on condition that the King should put out of the
Corporation of York all those Members to whom he
(Reresby) objected, and which James accordingly did; so
that from this it appears clear that the declaration in the
Bill of Rights in no wise applied to the small boroughs, in
favour of which the Noble Lord would have fought on
his stumps had he lived at that time. The Hon, and
Learned Gentleman (Mr. Macauley) has asked whether
the Constitution, because it was good a hundred years
since, is never under any circumstances to lie subjected to
change. I sin ready to admit that, if there does not exist
an elastic spirit in the Constitution so as to meet the tern -
per of the times, there is something wrong—something
that requires alteration—and that, if the boroughs are
torde of such iron stuff that they will nut yield to the im-
pression of improvement, the attempt to put them down
is justifiable. But will any one, after looking at the
progress of the Legislature since the year 1827, say that
the animus of this House is behind time improvement of
the times ? Is it not rather before it in what it did on the
Ca hone question and on that of free trade?—(Cheers.)
Rut another error, which, in my opinion, the advocates of
Reform have committed in their arguments is that they
have discussed the question as if it only applied to this
country, quite forgetting the immense colonial pos•essions
of the empire. But, if it be said that the population of
India is of so low a grade of intellect as not to understand
the nature of good government, I think that will only

serve to make the case worse ; for if they perceive that
change is taking place in England, without being able
to perceive the justice of that change, it will only le ul
them the more doggedly to require a change, in th it
own condition. Another fault is that the Bill makes no
Inference between nomination and small boroughs. It
•nay be very well to say that the nomination boroughs
,nust he got rid of; but that shows no cause for destroy-
ing the small boroughs also.—(Cheers.) Besides, the
real fact is, that this Bill does not destroy those very
wroughs at which it is said it aims. Look at Midhurst :
we have been told over and over sgain that the repre-
sentation of that place belonged to a hole in a wall ; but,
after all, that very hole in (the wall is to retain its
right. It is true that the constituency is enlarged but the
place itself continues the same. Does the Noble Lord
really think that the 101, householders in this country-
Ire alile to form in opinion upon the vast and com-
plicated interests of the countless millions who inhabit our

colonies and foreign possessions? I hold in my hand an
address width has been agreed to at Withill, in contem-
plation of the passing of this Bill, and of the franchise
tieing conferred by it ❑pon the 10/. householders. I allude
to it for the purpose of showing how lithe this class of

persons have i❑ mind any of the interests of the colonies.
It commences in these terms—" The reign of oppression
is neatly at an end—the fiat of the people of England has
gone forth, and a compact has been sealed by a patriot.
King, that might shall no longer triumph over right."._
The belief of these persons is that they are fulfilling the
wishes of the King by agreeing to addresses of this kind,
and by demanding a change of whatever has been long
established. In the instance to which I am now antra-
,ng the parties wish for the repeal of the corn laws—the
abolition of the monopoly of the East India Company, and
of the traffic in human flesh and blood—for the protecting
shield of the ballot, and for the limitation of the duration
of Parliaments to three years, Now, I do not mean to
ay that all this is not very honestly intended, but what
lam afraid of is, that when we get a popular Parlia-
ment we shall find it jumping to conclusions—conclu-
sions that may be right, but which, from the great variety
of interests they embrace, require the nicest caution and
consideration in their management.—(Cheers.) In the
same way, with respect to property, I am in no fear
of its destruction by confiscation; but I am afraid that
steps will be taken, the ultimate tendency of which will be
to shake the confidence of the country ; and that confi-
dence once shaken, there will be an end at once to the
chief stimulus which induces men to amass property, and
which -in England has hitherto been productive of that
wealth, commerce, and power, which have given her so
high a station among the nations of Europe. Let us for a
moment look at the state of France. What is the condi-

Lion of the working people there ? Why, although they
have not to meet the heavy taxation which exists in this
country, their state is most deplorable ; and it is found
that in every part of that kingdom the situation of the in-

dustrious classes is such that it almost becomes a question
whether they will ever be able to recover their former
vigour, and re-assert that position which the industry of
everp country ought to procure for it.—(Cheers.) By the
last intelligence, which has been published in the Times
newspaper, we are informed that " the mercantile distress
in France (to which the correspondent had repeatedly
alluded) is unhappily not confined to the manufacturing
districts of the kingdom. At Havre, and in the other
• commercial sea-ports of France, the loudest complaints
are made of the state of suffering depression to
which the shipping interests of the kingdom have
been reduced." With an increased army, and an
increasing revenue, such is the condition of the country
which has adopted and acted upon the liberal notions of
the day. Do I say that the French were not right in re-
-dating tyranny ? No ; but I s.ty that the effect of ail
such changes in Government is to suspend commerce, to
derange industry, to put a stop to credit, and conse-
quen•ly to injure in the highest degree all the manufac-
turing and labouring classes. 1 have alluded to France as
an example bow dangerous it is to shake the confidence of
a country by sudde❑ and sweeping changes; and I was the
more anxious to call the attention of the House to that sub-
ject, because I feel that the destruction of this country is
sealed the moment it is known that public property is not
secure. I fear that the IN. householders will not view
with the considerate circumspectio❑ which is necessary
those questions which tend not to the confiscation of pro-
perty, but to the shaking of the proper confidence which
should be connected with it. I say, therefore, that I vote
against the second reading of this Bill, not because I anti-
cipate that my opposition will be successful, but because I
wish to guard myself from the possibility of being involved
in the responsibility of having taken any part or share in
(nuking the greatest and most precipitate change which
ever was made in any Constitution, and which ought not
to be made in the best Constitution that ever existed is
the annals of history. You should well consider the

ultimate and immediate dircts of 'the change you are
about to accomplish on the three 'parts of the em-
pire. Look well to the proportions text were esta-

3

ip

1 ~f
~~:
ii~

~`u

falished et the Union. Ireland may he disturbed from
other causes ; but the Reform Bill in its principles, and
the course pursued by Government in agitating, besides
'the question of concession, the question of relative pro-
portions of the representation of the different parts of the
empire, which was agitated by the Government altogether
unnecessarily—(Herr, hear)—had disarranged—apart
ftann the question of the nomination boroughs—all the
relations of the empire—was pregnant with mischief, and
calculated more directly and immediately than any other
caase to produce extensive dissatisfaction and discontent.
It is, not in the spirit of hosti:ity, but from the common
interest which I take with the Ministers in the welfare of
the country, that I implore the Government not to suffer
this House to separate for the recess without proclaiming
pursue-a-not with vesper:J.: to the
the course they mean to
i:eliberations on the Reform Bill, but with respect to the
proportions they mean to preserve as to the Members for
the different parts of the empire. 1 say nothing of the
justice of the proceeding ; but I do fear that the course
pursued by the Government—though its propositions may
assume the semblance of justice, send though it may be
perhaps, resolved at lensrelt to concede—may place an
instrument in the hands of those who may use it to
strengthen their own popularity, and enable them to
command an extent of that proportion after the retees.
I say nothing of the justice; but if it ik Intended ulti-
mately 'to concede, 1 say give say at once.--(Cheers.)
As I said before, my opinions are decidedly opposed to the
principle of this measure. I expected that the 11finiettrs
-would bring in a Reform Bill on their aereptarce of office
—but I believe in my conscience that the coteessions made
by the Government bare been by I,*t too large, and that
it was most unwise to bring in an large a measure of Re-
form within six weeks After they bad taken office, and
while the country was yet agitated by the events of the
French Revolution.—(Hear, herr.) It must not he sup-
posed, as I have stated, that I am ready to support mode-
rate Reform—that I have listened to any insinuations, and
am keeping back until I may find a time to bring forward
a moderate plan of Reform, and dispossess the Government.
I may be obliged to submit by necessity to a plan of Re-
form which I cannot successfully oppose, but believing as I
do, that the people of this country are grossly deceived
—grossly deluded—in their expectations of tho practical
benefits they will derive from Reform, I shall not be pre-
cluded from declaring my opinion, and opposing that Re-
form as long as I can.---(Cheers from the Opposition
benches.) In these days the loss of office is no sacrifice.
It is impossible that the possession of it could be of any
advantage to me. It may be sought as an object of
honourable ambition, but it brings with it fey advantages.
I, at least, have no reason to regret the loss of it. I know
that my opinions of Reform Cannot be acted upon ;
but I feel that the opposition which I offer to
this measure will not be fruitless. Believing as I
do that this is the first step, not directly t b revolu-
tion, but to a series of changes which will affect the
property, and alter the miattel Constitution of the country '
that it will be fatal to the authority of the
House of Lords, and will force on a series of other con-
cessions, I will oppose it to the last—convinced that, al-
though my opposition will be unavailing, it will not be
fruitless, because the opposition now made will oppose a
bar to further concessions hereafter. Were the whole
House to join in giving way to the extent now proposed
it would have less power to resist future changes, On
this ground I stand not opposed to any well-considered
Reform—of any Reform of our institutions which the
well-being of the country may demand, but opposed to
this Reform in our Constitution, because I believe it will
lead to the destruction of those ancient institutions for
which I have a feeling—founded, perhaps, more upon pre-
judice than reason—of veneration and respect. But as I
am ready to co-operate with others in the introduction of
some Reform—and I believe that any Reform can only
be effectual just in the proportion that it is temperate,
moderate, and toll considered—as I am ready to support
such a species of Reform, so will I ever wield whatever
power I may possess to oppose the gradual progress of
that spirit of democracy to which the lion. and Learned
Gentleman (Mr. Macauley) thinks we ought to yield ; for
if we make those concessions it will only lead to establish
the supremacy of that principle. We may, I know, make
it supreme—we may be enabled to establish a republic,
full, I have no doubt, of energy—slender, I have no
doubt, with talent, but fatal to our mixed form of Go-
vernment, and ultimately destructive of all those
usages and beauties which have long preserved to
us u large share of peace and prosperity, and
have made and preserved this the proudest kingdom in the
annals of the world.—(Loud and long-continued cheering.)
Mr. HUNT, amid loud cries of " Question ;" and the
strongest manifestation of impatience, endeavoured to ex-
plain some part of his conduct at Leeds which had been al-
luded to in the course of the debate. He re-asserted that
this new Bill would not be satisfactory to the labouring
classes, because it would not extend to them any new pri-
vilege.

The ;illery was then cleared for a division, and the
numbPrs were:—

For the second reading 3•'4
Against it ..............
Majority in favour of Ministers —l6'2
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Friday the 20th of .Janu try.
It may not be improper to adil that, on the tinnal‘ers
being announced, no manif station of feeling took place.
On re-entering the gallery we found the CHANCELI.O2
e the EXCHEQUER on his legs, moving " that the House,
on rising, do adjourn to Tuesday, the 17th Jan. next."
The motion was then put by the SrEAKER,and agreed to.
'1 he orders of the day were next disposed of, and some
notices of motions given, the particulars of which, from the
noise made by Members quitting the House, were not heard
in the gallery ; after which the House adjourned at a
Quarter past One on Sunday morning.

PROSPECTUS OF TIIE UNIVERSITY OF

DURHAM,

The government to be vested in the Dean and Chapter,
the I.lishop being Visitor.
A Chief Officer of the College or University to be ap-
pointed, with the title of Warden ; to whom will be com-
mitted the ordinary discipline.
l'uoirssorts.-1. Divinity and Ecclesiastical History.
2. Greek and Classical Literature.
3. Mathematics and Natural l'hilosophy.
IIEADERs.--1. Law.
2. Medicine.
3. History, Ancient and Modern.
_ _

To these may he added Readers in other branches of
literature or science, as opportunities offer, or circumstancs
require. _ _

TEAcitEns of Modern Langmiges, especially French and

German.

TUTORS..--1. Senior Tutor and Censor.
2. Junior Tutor and Censor.

Each to superintend the Studies of their respective
Pupils, and to have the care of their general conduct.

STUDENTS.

1. Foundation Students, having lodgings and a table
provided for them, free of expense.
2. Ordinary Students, maintained at their own cost,
but subject in all respects to the Co'lege rules of discipline,
and to have every academical privilege in common with
other students. _ _

3. Occasional Students, to be admitted, under certain
restrictions, to attend one or more courses of public lec-
tures, but without other academical privileges.
4. Divinity Students, especially so called, who, though
not actual members of the College, may be admitted after
due examination and inquiry, and subject to such condi-
tions and regulations as the Chapter may hereafter pre-
scribe, to attend, for a specified time, the lectures of the
Divinity Professor, and to pursue their theological studies
under his direction, for the express purpose of qualifying
themselves for holy orders.
The course of study required to complete the education
of a member of the College will extend to four years.
The Academical Year to commence in October, and
end in June, being divided into three terms.
Terminal and Annual Examinations to be made in the
presence of the Chapter, and the students classed according
to their respective proficiency.
Prizes to be instituted for the reward of special merit, at
the close of each annual examination, and for such parti,u_
lar exercises as may be deemed worthy of public dis.

tinction.
The foregoing outline, subject to revision as to its spe-
cific statements, may suffice to explain the nature and
design of the proposed institution ; far which the Dean
and Chapter, with the aid and co-operation of the Bishop,
are providing the requisite means of carrying it into effect.
It is intende,l that the College, or University, be opened
in October, 1832.

We learn from Vienna, that Sir wALTER
ScoTT, on his return from Naples, will visit that capital,
and thence proceed to Weimar, to pay a visit to the cele-
brated GOETHE. The Dukes of Lucca, the Princes of
TEA urmarrsnonY, HARE ACH, and other personages, have
left Prague for Vienna, in consequence of the cholera
having broken out in the former city.
It appears that we over-stated last Week
the number of prisoners for trial at the Assizes. The
names contained in the calendar amounted to no more than
fifty-three, which is still, however, a lamentable number.
--.Brighton Gazette.