The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-08 00:00:00

!i pies of the revolution which placed- the present &roily on the
throne, was the establishment of a free and full representation
of the people. On that principle I take my stand. I certainly
lament that other inviduals with whom I am personally con-
nected, do not agree with me ; but I have no doubt of the purity
of their motives. As for myself, I always was a Reformer, I
am a Reformer, and I shall always be a Reformer until this Bill,
or some other measure of equal efficiency, is passed. But at
' the same time, I am most anxious that the object of Reform
should be obtained by constitutional means, and that no
' acts of violence should be resorted to with a view to its
attainment. If they should, I shall certainly feel it my duty
warmly to support his Majesty's Government in repressing
them. I trust, therefore, that if this 13111 should un-
fortunately be thrown out, the people, though firm, will be
tranquil. If any outrage should ensue, I shall be sa.
tisfied that it proceeds only from the populace, and not from
the middle and respectable classes. I hold in my hands a do-
cument which proves the little danger there is of any act on
the part of the middle classes subversive of good order, and of
existing institutions. It appears by that document that there
are no fewer than 264,000 holders of stock in the Bank of Eng-
land, whose dividends do not exceed 200/. a year. The intelli-
gence of the middle classes is proved, in addition to that which
I have already stated, by the fact that 191,170 newspapers leave
London for the country every week. My Lords, under all
these circumstances, I feel it my bounden duty to vote for the
second reading of this Bill; and in taking that step, I conceive
that I am doing the best for the benefit of the country,—(Hear.)
The Duke of GLOUCESTER said that he was friendly to
Reform, and that had the Bill been of a different character he
would have voted for it ; but it was a Bill, not for Reform, but
for the establishment of a new Constitution. Being convinced
that the adoption of such a measure would be pregnant with
mischief and danger, and that it would lead to the overthrow
ofthe State, he felt it his duty to vote against the second reading.
The Marquis of HASTINGS, in a very low tone of voice,
stated, as car as we could collect the Noble Lord's opinion, that
he believed the feeling of the people to be greatly in favour of
the Bill, and that he should vote for the second reading.
The Earl of HAREWOOD certainly believed that there
was a strong sentiment in the emmtry in favour of Reform ;
and that Reform would be conceded. Rut the question on
which their Lordships were now called upon to decide was
between Reform and this Bill. He verily believed, that if the
question of Reform had been conducted by his Majesty's Go-
vernment in another manner, and if it had not been accom-
panied by so many extraordinary external circumstances, it
would have been successful. lie thought that they had been
much to blame in dissolving Parliament $ since they must have
known that, although the character of the House pf Commons
might be changed by that measure, the opinions of the Ifouse
of Lords would remain the same. He did not consider Reform
necessary to cure any existing evils. The wealth of the country
was to him a proof of the thriving state of the country, There
was also an increase of knowledge. He did not wish that these
improvements should be urged es en argument for excluding
the suffrage. He hoped that the questien might be settled in
a less high tone than had been assumed ; ;net that parties
might not be offended f4y any unnecessary harshness of
gunge.—( When the Noble Earl took his seat there were loud
and continued calls for " Question t")
Lord BARHAM could not reconcile it to his conscience to
give a silent vote. The Bill was so much approved by the
country, that he should think himself unworthy, if he did not
give it his support, Some of their Lordships were possessed
of influence to which they had no right; and to preserve that
to which they had no right, seas neither consistent with mo-
rality not religion, He recommenced. their Lordships to allow
the Bill to go to a Committee, because it was calculated to
render the House of Cerninons the real guardians pf the
Peoples' interest. He conjured his Noble Friends, who, like
himself, were not ashamed to avow themselves friends of reli-
gion, to put a stop to that corruption in the State, they would
be most anxious to put an end to in private life.—(The Noble
Lord was frequently interrupted by cries of " Question," and at
the close of his speech, " Question" resounded from all sides of
the House.)
Earl GREY felt much exhausted from five nights' debate,
and could assure their Lordships that lie did not mean to detain
them long. But he must express his extreme regret at the
feebleness he felt, at a time when he had most need of even
more strength than he generally possessed, to reply to the Noble
and Learned Lord who had made a statement that evening on
the other side. He was prepared to expect that the Noble Earl ,
would express a dissent from the measure then before their
Lordships. He felt deeply interested in a measure which
he considered of vital importance, and he felt, therefore,
all the disadvantage of having opinions opposed to that mea-
sure delivered with all the authority of the Noble and Learned
Lord.—(Earl Grey alluded, we believe, to Lord Eldon.) He ,
dreaded his authority, and was prepared to have it exerted
against the opinion he entertained, but he was not prepared for
the speech of the Noble Earl. He knew that he was powerful

- . -
in arguments, and that th.ose arguments would have greal

weight; but he was not prepared to expect a bitter, acrimoni-
ous, and virulent attack upon the whole of his Majesty's Minis..
ters and the course they had pursued. He did na enter much
into the principles of the Bill, but he attacked the whole foreign
and domestic policy of the blimisters, and declared that their
whole policy showed that they were not suited to the country,
and that it would not be difficult to supply their places with a
better Ministry. Yet the Noble and Learned Lord had, at the

same time, expressed a wish that his Majesty's Ministers, should

they be defeated on the Bill, would not be removed. He had
attacked every one of their measures, and referred to their for-
mer opinions to fix on them the charge of inconsistency. The
same course had been pursued the other night by his Noble

Friend, who began by paying him some very great personal
compliments, as well as those connected with him—men who
professed the same opinions with himself—opinions, too, for-
merly professed by the Noble Earl, and which he now regretted
the Noble Earl no longer profesgea, He regretted that
. _

:he Noble Earl should have attacked bite., as if he (Earl

Grey) had departed from the principles he h 4 formerly
professed, when the departure was not on his side, for his
present opinions were the same as those he bad always
espoused. He had frequently observed that when a speech
began by very great compliments to him, it was generally the
prelude to a something disagreeable, and the expectation ex-
cited by the first part of his Noble Friend's speech was not dis-
appointed by the subsequent part of it. He declared that his
feelings were those of amity to his Majesty's Government, and
yet made a speech distinguished by rancour, by invective, by
sarcasm, and by charging them with inconsistency. The Noble
Earl, with a view, as he said, of supporting his opinions by
authority, but apparently with a view of fixing a charge of in-
consistency on him, had quoted a speech of his, and had per-
haps read the passage which he would beg leave to read them,
that his opinions had remained the sante. The Noble Earl read
the following passage ;—" I am now, as I was formetlf, the
advocate of a temperate, gradual, judicious correction of those
defects which time has introduced, and of those abuses in the
Constitution of the other House of Parliament which give most
scandal to the public, at the same time that they furnish de-
signing men with a pretext for inflaming the minds of the mul_
titude, only to mislead them from their true interest. To such
a system I am a decided friend—whenever it shall be brought
forward, from me it shall receive an anxious and sincere sup-
! port. But as I never have, so I never will rest my ideas of
salutary Reform on the grounds of theoretic perfection,,o That
speech had not been published by his authority, but the sen-
timents were the same as he had always professed, and he was
ready to abide by them. He had, he admitted, in his younger days
been a Member of the Society of the Friends of the People, but
he had never gone the length of supporting Annual Parliaments
or Universal Suffrage. The Noble Carl quoted part of a letter ,
Written by him as Chairman of a Committee of the Friends of
the People, to the Society for the Constitutional Information
at Sheffield, in which it was stated—" That they make the
preservation of' the Constitution, on its true principles, the
foundation of all their proceedings, and the measure of all their
Reform." A feeling in favour of Reform had been his ruling
principle through life, and had guided and regulated his con-
duct on the present occasion. But might it not be possible,
without any inconsistency, that in 1810 he should have thought
that a less Reform was advisable than ia the year 1831 ?
(Cheers.) But above all, was it the Noble Lord who was qua.
lifted to call him to account on else charge of inconsistency ?
(Loud cheers.) Could the House hair? forgotten the condoet
of the Noble and Learned Lord on the Catholic question ?
(Renewed cheering.) Could they have forgotten that only a
short time before his strenuous advocacy for that rneyoure, he
had denounced it in the House of Commons as subversi*e of
the Constitution and destructive of the Ctillrch in Ireland ?
(Great cheering.) When, therefore, the Noble Lord charged
him with inconsistency, he would recommend him to remember
his own speech on that occasion.—(Fresh cheers.) The Noble
Duke had said that he had made a charge against the late Govern-
ment. This he denied ; he had made no charge ; he had only
described the state of affairs when he came into office. The
Noble Duke had admitted that he resigned in consequence of
the question of Parliamentary Reform,
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that Reform had nothing
to do with his resignation further than it had induced him to
resign on the Tuesday morning.

Earl GREY went on to say, that the Ministry had been accused
of exciting the public mind, but the fact was, that the public
excitement existed before he came lute office; besides which,
what object could be have in excitement ? anrely the object of
3 Government was always Baa, g and quiet. But it was also said
that this measure was destructive of the Constitution Gf the
, country, and subversive of the Aristocracy. He trusted that
I the Bill would not be found to be deserving of that character.
It had been complained that he had not shown rufficient reasons
for the measure; he was aware of his own deficieiwy, but he
certainly had endeavoured to dhow, in his opening speech, that
• the Bill was introduced on account of the public dissatisfaction,
and owing to the public attention being fixed on the great
abuses that existed in the Constitution. So snswb then for the
object of the Bill. But was it calculated to give satii.fe„etion to
the people ? He thought that the answer to that was to be
found in the almost universal voice of the people declared in
their petitions—(Loud cheering)—and in the manner in which
they were trembling for the event of that night—(Loud cheer-
' ing)--100kIng to the adoption of the Bill as the safeguard of the
country, and to its i
rejection as a thing calculated to produce
circumstances, which, f he were to dteisiecribeno,z!(lcairfelry4lt
would be said that lie was threatening
He could not but notice the distinction taken by the Noble
Duke between his duty as a Minister of the Crown, and the
liduties which he had to discharge as a Member of that House;
that was certainly a distinction rather new, andl itt was onewhich
he professed himself unable to comprehend. had been said
hat the present Bill was the cause of the excitement which pre_
railed throughout the country, and then they iterctold that
the people were not qualified to judge. NN hat, no judgment
m a question that concerned them so nearly ? .He would stv
• .
hatamidst the present diffusion of knowledge, it would be an
isult to the people of England to say that they were not quail-