The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-22 00:00:00

TUESDAY EVENING, MAY'
_221 1849.

for Hull hitnielf, an officer of the Crown, voted against
the Bill now before their Lordships' House. There was
net a commercial man of consideration in the City of
London with whom he was acquainted, that was in
favour of the measure ; and the Lerd Mayor of Loudon
—as good a Whig as the Noble Marquis opposite—had
not supported the Bill in its stages in the Howe of Com-
mons. He denied also that the majority in the House of
Commons respecting this measure, was of such a cha-
racter as to warrant their Lordships in supporting it.
The preposition of the Government being to throw open
the whole trade of the country, except the coasting
trade, but to give the power of exercising retaliation
towards any country which might be found unfairly
transferring the trade, and that of the Noble Lord on
the cross-benches being to maintain the system under
which their mercantile marine had flourished, and
their navy having been created, and afterwards to apply
a particular system of reciprocity, it became necessary to
see whether they were sure of obtaining a return of their
concessions after they were made. [The Noble Lord
was here much interrupted by the somewhat loud talk-
ing which proceeded from a group of Members of the
other House standing around the throne, and addressed
them thus :—" If those Gentlemen who were talking so
loud only knew the inconvenience of having to speak
above them, they would at once remove to a place more
convenient for themselves, and infinitely more convenient
for me."] On that point they had sufficient proof that
whilst, on the one hand, they would be allowing the
Americans to enjoy as much of the trade with the colo-
nies and the other countries of the world as they could
acquire, there was no adequate return to which they
could look forward with any prospect of success,—
(Cries of "Hear, hear.") He had no question of the
superiority of the plan proposed by his Noble Friend
near him (Lord Stanley), and although it was said that
the only difference between that plan and the one pro-
posed by the Noble Lord on the cross benches was a
difference as to the modus operandi, still, he apprehended
the House would be of opinion that that difference in the
modes operandi would lead to an immense difference in
the general result to the consumers and the community
at large. He was prepared, therefore, to support the
amendment of the Noble Lord near him, and to vote
against the proposition of the Government. Many
Noble Lords had been summoned from far and near to
assist at the approaching division on this question; but
he hoped it would be seen that though absentees could
decide the House, they could not decide the Com-
mittee.—(Hear, hear.) There did not appear to be any
pressing necessity for the measure which was thus pre-
cipitately urged upon the House, but yet the Government
were obviously determined on pushing it, although the
advantages, its success on the navigation system, its
utility, and above all, its claim to general admiration as
having given birth to their navy, had been acknowledged
by some of the most distinguished men which the country
had produced. He would ask the House, therefore, de-
liberately, what great cause it was that should impel
them to destroy this system, of which so many had been
justly proud? If they persisted in a resolution to adopt
this ill omened Bill, his firm conviction was that they
would do irreparable injury to the shipping interest of
the country, and cut at the roots the only available means
by which their navy could be recruited. For those
reasons he should give his vote against the measure
submitted by her Majesty's Government.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM complained that the Noble and
Learned Lord who had just spoken had not sufficiently
confined himself to the question before the House, which
was far more restricted in its limits than the Noble and
Learned Lord appeared to suppose. A large part of his•
Noble and Learned Friend's speech had not been ad-
dressed to the subject immediately before their Lord-
ships. As to the wisdom of our ancestors shown in
these laws, he thought that the argument drawn from
their existence for two centuries was no proof of
their adaptation to our present circumstances. We
had outgrown the age at which such laws could be use-
ful. But even taking his Noble and Learned Friend's
own argument as to defence, he would ask, where was
our naval power at the time of the Spanish armada?
Was the defeat of that armada owing to the navigation
laws? There were many other facts in our history which
went to prove that these laws had not had so much to
do with our naval power as was generally assumed on
the opposite side. Looking at the position of our two
islands as compared with the Continent, he might ask, if
that power was no; more owing to their physical confor-
mation and position than to any legislation. Believing,
' as he did, that the naval power of England was not
ascribable to the Navigation Act, to the extent assumed
by its supporters, he had no hesitation in cordially
giving his support to the measure of her Majesty's Go-
vernment. He looked to the time when by its means we
should not only get rid of the restrictions on our com-
merce, but also provide more efficiently for our national
defence.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that the ques-
tion betore the Committee was, whether it should adopt
the very liberal proposals of her Majesty's Government,
or the more enlightened and equitable amendment pro-
posed by his Noble Friend. The Government proposed
to repeal certain Acts and parts of Acts, but they were
by no means to be confined within the four corners of
these Acts; they might at their own caprice—nay, to
carry out their policy they would be obliged to import
and incorporate the laws of foreign countries with refe-
rence to shipping, so that with reference to that subject
the law would not be found in a distinct Act of Parlia-
ment, but in a series of orders in Council. This would
cause great confusion, and there would be no end of the
variety which would be introduced into our legislation as
respects foreign states. He thought there were very se-
sious obj.ctions to doing that by ,rders in Council which
might as well be done by Act of Parliament. It was an
innovation of modern times which they ought to be
very careful of sanctioning, except in extreme cases.
His Noble Friend was very car. All in that respect. The
only discretion he left to her Majesty in Council was to
decide upon granting relaxations when the nations to
whom they were granted were prepared to concede
equivalent advantages, and thus to establish a perfect
reciprocity in each case. It was quite incorrect to say
that their Lordships were called upon to decide against
the measure of her Majesty's Government, but they were
asked to say whether, having decided that the naviga-
tion-laws should be altered, that alteration should be
made in a way which would secure to tbis country
equivalent advantages in our future relations with
foreign states. According to the plan of his Noble
Friend, there would be only two codes of laws—the ex-
isting code, applicable to all nations which refused to
deal with us on equal and reciprocal terms, and the new
code which would arise from our new relations with the
states which agree to such relations.—(Hear.) On that
ground he gave it his support, and hoped that it would
receive that of their Lordships.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the Noble Earl
had stated that there was no difference between them
except as to the best mode of adjusting differences of
reciprocity. He utterly denied that it was so.—(Hear.)
By the plan of the Government they endeavoured to re-
move all the restrictions they possibly could, and they
kept none but what they were absolutely compelled to.
keep; while by the plan of the Noble Lord he kept all
the restrictions he could, and gave no relaxations which
he could possibly avoid.—(Cheers.) That was the dif-
ference between the two plans. The Noble Earl who
spoke last seemed to apprehend that after this Bill was
passed it would be in the power of foreign nations to
hamper and destroy our trade by imposing new restric-
tions upon shipping when in their ports. Whatever might
be the imperfections of the Bill, it was certainly not ha-
ble to the charge of having overlooked that contingency,
and he could scarcely suppose that the Noble Earl
had read the Bill itself, or he would have found such a
state of things distinctly and specifically provided for.
(The Noble Marquis read the clause.) It would be seen,
therefore, that there was an effectual safeguard in that
clause against the danger apprehended by the Noble
Earl. There was a great difference between the Bill
brought forward by her Majesty's Government and that
se
laigdgdesotwedn byt thheberoNadobe plrinLcuiprdie.
ofT hfreeeGdoonive,rnwmheicnht
tßheiyll
believed was the best foundation upon which our com-
mercial system could be built, and which they also be-
lieved would be most effectual in promoting the pros-
perity and strength of our own navy. On the other hand,
after having listened with great attention to the plans
of the Noble Lord, and the arguments by which he
supported these plans, he must say that ho could not
help feeling surprised that the Noble Lord, after laying
down, as it were, certain polar stars to guide him in
making the changes he proposed, and after even sacri-
ficing his own principles, should have ended by propos-
ing arrangements which would be utterly inconsistent
with the objects he had in view., Take Canada, for in -
stance.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord proposed to
make a concession to Canada, but did any one who had
paid attention to our past legislation, and the growing
demands of the Canadian people, imagine they would
rest satisfied with that concession?—(Hear, hear.) By
the recent alterations in our laws we had given the
Canadians a taste of the benefits to be derived from the
free navigation of the St. Lawrence, and they would not
and
equally the
attached
ttieudtftsenihsriteistrtatimetwhriseasoepfintrweheelhdetsnirh,covahbcettous
cusptheanrehll
otscirpsueylxi fasetewleodudhi
betceyodhrnow rest satisfied till they had achieved complete free-
dom for ships of all nations on that river.—(Hear, hear.)
How was that to be done? Why the Noble Lord said
they ought not to favour the United States, but his own
plan was all in favour of the United States. Every
Noble Lord must see that it was the country of all
others which would most immediately benefit by the
adoption of the plan of the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.)
While the Noble Lord's amendment invites vessels of
not to be debarred from the advantages and privi
si
nicLtoCehhouogaeoal
ought
hdnsdat
ttdei
hiseodnaaesfti,
hvcwieheawbsc
better
amend-
ment left Canada dissatisfied, and rendered it impossible
could be renovated. Re thought the system recom-
bedttynrhtdehetaebadt
object
ebtsßjCiwiaci Canada
teahmidnatu conferred by the Bill. The Noble
the Noble Lord opposite. But any system would fall
increase the warehousing system of the country,
which ought to be one of the great desires of a legis-
lature. It was said that the Bill had not the general
assent of the masses of the people of the country.
No measure that had been adopted by Parliament could
be said to have the assent of the nib.sses of the people
if it were to he gathered from public demonstration and
public petitions. The Noble Marquis referred to the
petitions presented from Liverpool, and quoted a para-
graph from a newspaper in the Protectionist interest, to
show that great indifference was manifested in Glasgow,
where a public meeting was convened to consider the
propriety of petitioning in favour of reciprocity, and not
more than 100 persons attended, including twelve re-
porters, and many of those on the platform were uncon-
nected with the shipping or mercantile interests. He
adjured their Lordships, in conclusion, to preserve
the spirit and principle laid down in the Bill. Re-
laxation was the rule, and restriction the exception, of
the Government measure, while the amendments of the
Noble Lord directly attacked that principle. It was the
object of the Bill to increase the commerce of the
country, which, when promoted, could not fail to main-
tain the general prosperity of the country. He hoped
that wilitioyer other orgendments their Lordships