The Sun.
London, England, 1825-03-01 00:00:00

SCOTCH JURIES BILL.

Lord MELVILLE rase, pursuant to his notice of Friday
last, to move the firstreading of a Bill for the better regulation
of choosing Scotch Juries. The Noble Lord observed, that his
object was to enact such fitand proper rules for the appointment
of Juries in Scotland as would materially promote the ends of
justice in that country. In Scotland the Assizes are not held is
in England, in. every country, but in districts. His object was
to choose the juries by ballot, and not, as is now done' -leave the
selection altogether with the Judges. The trials for high
son being the same in Scotland as in England, the difficulty of
summoning was, in consequence of the circumstance he had
alluded to, very great. His object was so to alter the plan as
to remedy the defect. He should, therefore, propose- the first
reading of the Bill, and leave the subject to be discussed at
greater length on some future night. The Bill was then read a
first time.
ILLEGAL ASSOCIATIONS BILL.
_ _

Mr. RitoonE:4, and several MeMbers of the House of Com-
mons brought up the Catholic Association Bill.
On the motion of Lord LIVERPOOL it ,was read a first
time.

Earl DARNLEY presented a petition from the Roman Ca-
tholics of the parish of St. Catherine's, in the city of Dublin.
The Noble Lord, observed that the petitioners besought their
Lordships, and he joined in the prayer of their petition.„ that they
would not pas a law which must deprive a large portion of his
Majesty's subjects of their freedom, by passing a law to put
down the Catholic Association—at least, without hearing what
that Association had to say in its defence: He was not now wil-
ling to enter into the subject, but would.do so on some future
occasion, when the time for doing so would be more proper than
the present; but he would now intreat their. Lordships to con-
sider the consequences of the measure.—The petition was then
read.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL then moved that the Illegal As-
sociation Bill should be read a second time on Thursday next,
and that their Lordships be ordered to be summoned for that day.
The Earl of DARNLEY then presented a petition from the
county of Monaghan against the same Bill. The Noble Lord
observed, that although he, advocated the prayer of the petition,
it did not necessarily follow that he advocated every word and
act of the Catholic Association.—Laid on the table.

The Earl of CARNARVON presented a petition on the same
subject from a parish in the county of Cork. The Noble Earl
said, he felt it his duty to draw the attention of the House to a
substitution in the petition
_of the words " very respectfully" for
" humbly." , He,clid not know how this alteration occurred ;
but he could assure the House of his conviction that no slight
was meant to their Lordships.
Lord LI VB RVOOL --Insert the word " humbly."
The petition was.then received and read.
Lord HOLLAND presented-a sivuilar petition,from the town
of Drogheda. The Noble, Lord observed, that he ,had thought
the attention, of the House would he. well bestowed on these pe-
titions. If the object a the Association were, as it was con-
tended and admitted to be, to speak the sentiments of the Irish
people,-and to endeavour to redress their grievances, then those
petitions, as tending to prove that. this feeling was common
throughout Ireland, should have their due weight and effect.—
He would not suppose their Lordships meant so to infringe on
the rights of the country, and the rights of all countries, as to
oppose the wishes of the great majority of the people. . He had
a great many petitions to present to their Lordships, and all of
them were conceived in the same spirit though not in the same
words. The Noble Lord then presented similar petitions from
the towns of Kinsale, Ross, Carbery, and Skibbilfeen, in the
county of Cork ; from Ballinasloe, in the county of Sligo ; and
from the county of Wexford.
Earl GROSVENOR presented a similar petition from the
parish of St. Andrew, in the county of Dublin. The Noble
Earl
.said, , that although he would not at the present moment
discuss the subject, he could not avoid observing that the mea-
sure was•one to which he should always object, as he would to
any measure of coercion.—The petition was then laid on the
table. _ _

Lord KING presented a similar petition from the parish of .
St. Michael, in the city of Dublin.—. Laid on the table.
The Marquis of LA NSDOWN said, that since he bad the
honour to present a petition from the merchants, bankers, and
landholders of Dublin, he had received a communication from
two Noblemen, the Marquis of Sligo and Lord
.Ashtown, ,ex,
Pr.essive of their regret that before the petition had been pre-
sented an opportunity had not been given them of affixing to
it their names, And requesting him to make the statement he
now did. He repeated his conviction .that the Bill would be
ineffectual in itself, and injurious in its nature. The petition
he held in his hand was one of great weight and importance
it was from the Roman Catholics of England and Scotland,
praying that the [louse would not pass the Bill tbr putting
down the Irish Roman Catholic Association, and was signed
by 3,000 persons. The Noble Lord then presented petitions
of a similar nature from 3laryborough, the principal town in
the Queen's County • from Cove, in the county of Cork.; from
Donnabeg, and another parish in the county of Dublin ; from
the Catholics, and-another from the Protestants 'of the parishes
of St, Luke, St. Peter and St. Nicholas Without, in the
Bishop'S and Dean's Liberties in the city of Dublin ; from
Killarney, in the county of Kerry ;- from the parish of Clokh-
nama, in the. Queen's County ; frorn,Kilrush, in the county
of Clare ; and from Tralee, the principal town in the county
of Kerry. The Noble .Marquis then observed, that he held
in his hand a petition which he had no doubt came in the re-
gular way, signed by 6,000 inhabitants of the city of Lime-
rick ; but the seal had been placed over some important words,
and lie feared the petition, on this account, could not be re-
ceived.—The petitions were laid on the table. •
Lord CLIFDEN presented a petition, which he said was
signed by a great number of Protestants. as well as Catholics,
praying their Lordships not to pass the Bill for the Suppress
swn of the Irish Catholic Association. He felt assured that the
Bill would have no effect: It must be in the recollection of
their Lordships that two years ago a Bill was.patised to put
down Orange Associations; yet those Orange Associations
continued to flourish. He suspected that the same fate would
attend the present precious Bill.- -The 'House had experiente
in the case of the Orange Associations, which he • believed had
increased since the passing of a law against them. He had
read in the Warder .(a Dublin newspaper) an account of 'a
murder in the county of Cork, followed by a preposition to
murder all the -Catholics, men, women, and children, in that
country. He had heard it-stated that a great. roportion of the
Protestants of the three provinces, Leinster, Munster,:and Con-
naught, wished that the measure of Catholic Emancipation
might be carried, and would be very 'glad if the House would
grant it. The petition he had to present Was from the city of
Kilkenny. The Noble Lord presented similar petitions from
the town and borough of New 'Ross; from Mallow, in the.
county of Cork ; from several parishes in the county of Tip-
perary ; from the county and county town of Galway ; from
the town and parish ofTuam ; from the Roman Catholic In-
habitants of Birmingham ; from Dingle, and from Clones, in
the county of Monaghan.
The Petitions were laid on the' table. '
The Bishop of. BATH and WELLS :presented a Petition,
from the city of Bath, in favour of the Bill against the Irish 11,.
legal Institutions, and praying that the House would not grant
any further concessions to the Roman Catholics.
• Laid on the Table.

The same Noble and Reverend Prelate presented a sirril/ar
Petition from the Archdeacon and Clergy of the City of Bath.
Earl FITZWILLIAM spoke in so lew a tone of voice asp
be scarcely audible below the bar.' We understood his Lord
ship to say, that
,he objected strongly to the nature and spirit
of the Petition presented' by the Noble and Reverend Lord.
-He complained that the Clergy had cane before their Lordships
,ro'dictate to them on, a subject like the present. If clergymen,
of the Protestant Church did so, why might pot these-'of the
Catholic do the same? Could the House oppose the PriestS of
for offering their advice ? and was.' there' the Catholic reliiion
'any thing to prevent the army or the navy from coming forward:
in alike manner ? In the petition opinions are attributed to

the Catholics which they dp not avow, and in sonic cases deny,
• and things are.there mentioned as facts .which he himself could
'disprove. He woUld Worm the House of his opinion on the
subjeCt of the Bill ;• it was this—that the House was proposing
an unconstitutional Measure, and was .flying in the face of the
Almighty in not fearing his vengeance for continuing to keep in
misery seven millions of our fellovr-.reatures.
The Bishop of BATH' and WELLS said, -that the Noble
Earl (Fitzwilliam) had indulged in gteneral observations, which
`it was quite impossible'that he should answer. Had the Noble
Earl mentioned any partictilaVfoefs," there would haVe been an
opportunity for a reply. With respect to his observation-" that
such a petition should not wive front the Clergy," if it meant
any thing, it would-go the length of saying that -no petition
should come from 'the clergy under any circumstances—that
they alone should be exclUded from the righ Cof petitioning—a
right which confessedly belonged to all his -Majesty's subjects.
He conceived it would only be a waste of time to point out rea-
sons why the Clergy possessed, and should exercise the right of
petitioning., In conclusion, he wouldobserve, that lic knew of
nothing objactiocable in the petitio : he did not think it,con-
tained any thing contrary to thfl which a Protestant
Clergyman should hold ; and he show d-be glad to know that
its assertions were weighed before Noble Lords should give
their votes on Thursday night, upon the' second reading of
the Bill.

Earl FITZ WILLIA :11 again rose—The Noble and Rev.
Lord had charged hail with having-made general objections,
whilst he avoidCd referring to specific facts. The Noble
Lord here read several
_passages from the petition, and con-
tended that the petitioners attributed motives of which they
could not be sure, and
.appealed to facts which he knew to
be unfounded.

The Bishop of BATH and WELLS, in explanation, ob-
served, that Chapters; with 'their Dean, possessed and exercised
the right of petitiorring from tune inithernorial. SOnne of the
facts alluded to-_ in the petition Were notorious. It was well
known that the Catholics of Ireland denied that they were per-
mitted the privilege of religious worship,. though it was equally
well known that this privilege was exercised in the most unre-
strained manner.

Lord lIOLLANa.said, if the question was--whether the
petition should be received or not ?—soanaious was he that the
petition of all his Illajesty's subjects should be heard, that his
voice shOuld be given for receiving the petition, notwithstand-
ing the gross allegations it contained, and the spirit, still worse,
in which it was framed. The petition contained the word
" humble," but he should leave it to their Lordships to deter-
mine what degree of humility the petitioners manifested. He
helieVed the petition also contained the word "-morality" but
he was sorry that there was little of the spirit of Christian cha-
rity about it. His Noble Friend (Earl,Firxwilliam) said,
the petitioners had imputed motives to the Catholics which
they could not know ,that the Catholics entertained, and had
'alluded to facts which he (Earl Fitzwilliam ) could disprove.
The. Noble and Reverend;,-Lord
.liad.challenged his Noble
Friend to point out that,towhich he objected ; and his Noble
Friend complied, h*,,teitiling ,passages.ftorn th petition, which
he_ could disprove. Th;e:Aitlile and Reverend Lord neglected
to reply to his Noble rnend,.thOugh he. had risen thrice. The
petition said that the Cathelies now openly the supre-
macy of the Pope ; the contrary. was the fact.. The petitioners
Might suspect that the Catholics acknowledged the supremacy
of the Pope, but it. was Pot like Christian pastors to charge
theni with avowing it. To be sure they were Papists, but no
just man, no an of Christian feeling,. would have imputed
that whichM was nor avowed. The petitioners say that this prin-
ciple is avowed--hilt where would the Noble and Rev. Lord
who presented the petition find the proof of this allegation. The
'Catholics disclaimed such Principle—was it not disclaimed in
every petition presented from them ; and was there not an open
avowalbf the principles of civil and religious libeity in all their
petitions ? Ile hoped that sudi uncharitable imputations,
made without any iyoof, would pot induce the House to visit
with reprdbation seven millions of „people.
The Bishop of CHESTER thought that those imputations
of uncharitablenesS cast upon the clergy were very unfounded.
As to the belief of Roman Catholics in the Pope's supremacy,
they were too wise tdmake such allegations in documents to be laid
before Parliament,. because such an acknowledgment might he
fatal to their purpose; but it was unhei,itatingly avowed in many
of their publications. Numberless boOlts were circidated in his
large diocese, in svhich the-doctrinecit'toePope's supremacy was
distinctly maintained. A'Rbm an Cathertvp;iest of great celebrity
'When *wing on the Gallican Chuich;P.sserved, that he could
not approve of it, he-Cause of that hetet adox tenet, which held,
that tite'supteree civil power was in the King ; nor could this
writer, he said, •' consent to any v.,)ree withal compromised the
indefeasible supremacy of the Pope. This doctrine was also
preached by many Roman Catholic priests in Lancashire; and
they were known to hive told the. people, that. the churches
were in their possession formerly, and should be again before
long. As to the Archdeaconry it was a recognised body, and
had as undisputed a right to petition as a corporation; or any
other body. With regard to•the petition, he was free to admit
that lie should be 'glad to see sonic of the assertions which it
Contained Obliterated ; he thought. some of the assumptions
might have gone beyond the strict line of truth.—(Hear, hear!)
He thought, however, that imputations of uncharitableness
were most deserved. When Protestant clergymen lifted up
their 'voices in perilous times, it was not well to accuse them of
wanting charity. They have an answer to such an imputation,
but they use not the weapons of retaliation. The clergy of the
Established Church were only spoken of by the Roman Catho-
lics 'as' hungary Protestant pavers. Being in possession of
these facts, and a great many others, which he should think it
his duty to lay before their hardships at a more proper time, as
a Prelate of the English church, Ire would give his support to
the petition, which expieksed, though injudiciously, the feel-
ings of a body of men, 'Who were connected with a church which,
in his opinion, had strong claims os the veneration and affec-
tion of their Lordships.
' Lord, HOLLAND was convinced that the Catholics never
avowed what was iminited to them. The petition said of them
" that they had now thrown aside the show of loyalty," and
openly avowed that•their intention was the overthrow of the
Protestant religion.
The Bishop of' BATH and WELLS said, the Archdeaeonry
hid a right to
•petitron as well as a Dean and Chapter; or a
County. • He was not answerable for all the allegations in every
petition which he presented.-...:(Hear, hear !)—When.a petition
was handed hiro for presentation, he looked it over. attentively,
and if its allegation's seemed reasonable, and those who peti-
tioned were respectable, he thought it_ his duty to lay the peti-
tion before the House. He believed that such was the practice
of every one of their Lordships, and he was sure every one of
them would set as' he had under similar circumstances. He
did not think it just or Parliamentary. to impute motives to
speakers, and still less to impute motives to petitioners, who
could not be heard to defend themselves.
Lord HOLLAND explained. He had imputed no motives,
hehad iliilidorntllained that the petitioners unjustly attributed
metives•to-the Catholics.
The EatihiCARNARVON thought that- if die Clergy made
common cause with their fellow-subjects in political matters, it
would be much more advantageous, and add more to their re-
pittation';' if The Bill against the Catholics affected the Clergy
peculiarly, there might be sonic reason whythey should divide
theinselves *Ord their .fellow-subjects ; but it was a general
question in which the particular interests,of the Clergy were not
involved. All the allegations in the petition were false, and
that such Staten:tents should be made only prOved how much
preinjuidnir,
erni,aeny otdVethrieoiTie
josrodshheripjsu,dhgornw ent and it should be a
via
they should decide upon
the evidence of vague repents. The petition prays the House
to pieS•erve the country from spiritual violence and tyranny.
Now was not this unreasonable? The whole nuestion of the
• Catholic Claims arose out. of spiritual tyranny and oppression.
In 'conclusion the NobleEari,observed; that he was anxious to
• throw the doOts open to petitioners, but lie was sorry to see per.:
-.sons in a station so respectable as that of Clergymen, throwing
out imputations which were totally unfounded.
Lori,[ KING said, the wise men of Wells were the first to
bit)* the trumpet of " NO Popery," and no doubt were anxious
as Was contained in that
to makeup in sound what was wanted in sense, He did: not
thin so riiucli bigotry a'ntl
• think
naidin)-711saece but a cathedral town.-..
pain.° . _
He WislietTtlie Clergy would tea the proclamation• of the to-
tiilered truly the
iothlostng their establiAinent. "Ile. wished
let ant- King; of Hanover_ upon their chapter-doors. If they- con-
f thisproclamation':• • •
CnirnEze,
. in, good time, it
produced these_ petitions might be
preserved; and that Seine futuo
.antiquary would see the•lawn
sleevesirit
Whieli veiled and concealed inuchchatity._
nst
i'.°ll'(*)
the petition was re-
ceived, and ordered to be laid en their Lordships' table.
'ILLEDAL ASSOCIATIONS.
•
After a Tew fro? Lord
The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from Col-

Sir tY. Cun.T is presented a Petition from the Ward of Port-
soken for a repeal of the Assessed Taxes..
WELSH IRON MINING COMPANY.
On- the motion for the second reading of thit Bill, -
Mr. P. GRENFELL said, if it were a fact that delusion to
a certain extent prevailed among the public with respect to
some of the New Companies, he thought the sanction of an
Act of Parliament was calculated to strengthen that delusion
The present was one intance where, in his opinion, the flouse
ought to investigate the foundation of the Speculation Before
it was approved of..
The Bill was then read a second time.:.
:••

On the motion ,that it be committed,
, Mr. HUSKISSON was sorry to acknowledge, that at the 'I
very time when 'Parliament-had-puidown the Lottery, the for,
illation of many of these new CompanieS seemed productive
of a still worse species of gambling. He believed, however;
if all the subscribers bad Pat paid up the sums affixed to their;
names before the Bills. proceeded to another place (the Housei
of Lords) they would find great 'difficulty in having them
passed. The standing orders of 'the place, he alluded to,
posed that restriction en such Bills.. .
Mr. HOBHOUSE was glad to hear that some restraint was
placed upon • the present rage for. speculation, for he .could
prove: to. the Houle, that, in'one-o.r 'two instances, Companies
had tieengottup without any-real pretext tor their formation.
—One he should not hesitate to: mention, namely, the Based
Peruvian-MiningAssociation, which he believed had no foun.
dalion whateVer to proceed-on, beyond what it possessed 'on the
Stock' ExChange. • -
Mr: BARING thought it' impolitic that whatever trash'ini
the way of speculation might be brought into that House should
be allowed to pass on the Mere hope that it Would be examined
in another place.. The Hause did not' do its duty in.suffering
private bills of the nature in.queStion to receive its assent with-i.
out examining them ; and 'he thought his Hon. Friend
opposite (AIL Huskisson) would do well to t'alce the subjkt
into his consideration: They had heard- that a Ltitrned.Lord
in the other House of .Parliament had intended to litroduce a
bill—a bubble bill, to regulate the proceedings of joint Stock'
Companies ; but whether that intention remained, or was sur
-
rendered, was unknown at:present..
Mr. 1-IUSKISSON denied that. in his official opacity; as
President of the Board of Trade, the duty 'devolved. on him, of:
judging Of all such -yrivate bills as were referred to. It was
not his bUsinesi to enter into the merits pr, demerits of pUblic
speculations, but he had no hesitation in saying again, not-
withstanding; as he before stated last Session, that he should
-oppose aurnitatiftewhich went-ta- firiiit the-pißiiiiiary liability
of the parties: concerned in it. When this was not the ease, he
saw no objection tp thq 'louse granting a right to companies to
sue arid be sued as Corporations.
Mr. HUME should be sorry to see a rule 'laid down for. the
guidance of the House respecting these Companieo.
ment could not judge what was or was net a good undertaking.
When the Bill for erecting Waterloo Bridge was intr6thtced
into that:House, what would have been thought if a notice
had been posted up stating that the specnlation Was 'a bad.
012 e ? 'and yet none of the objects of the present Companies.
could prove rnore delusive to the subscribers than Waterloo
Bridge now turned out. All that Parliathent ought to do in
these matters was to giVe such facilities as were in its power,;
that parties might sue and be sued in their joint capacity. •
Mr....B.taarG explained. • • - - - ,
Sir C. Mo*Gaw presented a: Petition from, Monmouthshire, ;i
praying a repeal of the house Duty. Sithilar Petitions were
also presented by 11r. C. DirrrnAs, from Warringfard ; by'
Mr. LoCKHART, from the Parish of St. Edmonds, Oitford-
shire ;' and by Mr. NEwst.tN, from the inhabitants ofßeth-
...
rial Green, and by
Mr. HOBHOUbE from the parish of St. Martin's-in4he
Fields, Westminster. The lion. Member, in presenting this
Petition stated, that it was signed this day in less than two
hours, by every householder in the Strand, except six. lie
therefore requested the attention of the Chancellor of the. Ex-
chequer most particularly to the subject of it, and to fact
that had occurred within the last month—namely,. that al-
though the parish of St. Ann's contained but 1,400 houses,
100 distresses for King's Taxes had been put in there in the
short period just mentioned. •
_ .

Mr, MABERLY supported the Petition, and took:that op,
portunity to mention that the House ought to withhold a deci7
stun upon the financial affairs of the country until the motion
which stood for Thursday next was disposed A)f.
Mr. NEtwual: presented a Petition from the town of Dop-
sam against the Coal Duty.
Mr. Alderman Noon presented a Petition from the Roman
Catholics of the County of Monaghan, against the Bill which
had passed that House ,for suppressing the Catholic Asso-
ciation.

A .llember under the Gallery, whose name we could not
learn, said that he had two Petitions on the same subject to
present to the House, but had declined doing so, as. the Bill
was now before the other House.

of 4tlhl ret ouosce Jainpdr ems Finntde
od
wa ettyi
.t io
Ark frsoimmil l'aprsiw,
ei ethi
ofno rwaa
srepeal
sented by Sir T. LETHBRIDGE, from Lineote, in Somerset-
shire. Sir T. lATHBRIDGE also presented a Petition from the
County Clerk of Somersetshire, relative to the Bill for the Re-
covery of Small Debts.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented two petitions from Green-
wich i • one for a Repeal of the Duty on
.Seaborne Coals; the
other for a Repeal of the Assessed Taxes.
Sir WILLIAM CURTIS presented a petition from the Citi-
zens of London, praying a Repeal of the Duty on Seaborne
_

Mr. Alderman WOOD supported the prayer of the petition,
and enlarged upon the advantages which the poor inhabitants
of the Metropolis would derive from the remission of the duty
on small coal in particular. .
Mr. HART Davis presented a .petition from the parish of
St. Mary Ratcliffe, against granting, any further concessions
to the Roman Catholics. The Honourable Member in doing
so, observed, that the feelings of the people in that part of
England seemed at present generally, adverse to emancipation.
Sir RONALD FERGUSSON could state, that in the .part
of the country which he represented no such hostile feeling
now existed, although the religion of the people differed so
widely from that-of the Catholics and although formerly such
a feeling certainly did exist. On the contrary, he would boldly
assert, that the mass of the people were friendly to. Catholic
Emancipation. . .
Mr. MoslcK presented a petition_ from Reading fot.a repeal
of the House, and Window Duty. In one parish in. Berkshire
there had been 85 appeals within the last month from the duty
of 3s. on each cottage.
Mr. DEwisow. presented a petition from the parish of Lam-
beth, praying for a repeal of the Assessed Taxes, or at least
for a repeal of.the House and Windew-Dinies. . .
Mr. floi.mE SuMNER supported the petition. •
Sir. J. NEWPORT presented a. petition from the county of
presentedt aCflraeimm Claims..
of
Kerry in favour of the Roman Catholic Claims..
The AtToRNET-GENERAL presented a petition from the
torn of.Devonport, signed by upwards of 3,000 Inhabitants of
e.O
. great respectability,
theCoßlOrlion(lgUrhiolifECidn'tnell against the Bill. now in the House of
Lords for suppressing the Catholic Association ; anal a shiner
petition from. the Catholies.of, the Parish of Tipperary in the
against the Catholic
petition
barony of Clanwilliam. lle also presented &petition from the
Protestants a Cana on Suir in favour of. the Catholic Claims:
The Hon. Member observed, that .at the same time with the
petition he received severalletters from the. Catholics of Carrick
onSairu
the ntitheneighbourhood, expressing their most grateful
thanks for spontaneous act of liberality to.which they were
indebted to the. Protestants. In mentioning, this circumstance
he could not let,the.opportunity pass of reiterating a sentiment
which had,lately fallen from the'. Hon. Member fOr Hertford.
.shire (Sir J. Sehright): That Hon... Gentleman said. that he,
as an Englishman, was ashamed that any portion of his fellow,
subjects should be excluded from civil rights on account of their
,religious tenets. • He (Colonel Bagwell) wasalse:ashamed as
ar. Irishman that such should' be. the case—that the fiiends
whom he revered—who were his associates—with whom. he
mixed in all the familiarity of private life—should be deprived

of :the.privilegesrand immunities.whia he enjoyell.,, anti merel,-
because he professes} one religion and, they.another.--,(Hear
, Sir .TOHN SEH/IJGHT repeated that he was ashamed that
British7House of tortnnims should ekeltide six ntillians of
. from the Coustictit4on.:nierely:.:on account of
their religion. The great fault of the Homan Catlfo4p,ReligiOn
Wa's lis.intolerance t; but now the tables Were tnrncd, and th,t
Profestiint -waihe Intolerant.,,the Catliblic the tolerant reli-
gion,,-(Hear,, hear !)
Mr. WY.;cinipt I.Ewts presented a petition front sow,-
place-101kb we (lid-not heir,- praying a repeal of fhekouse and.
-Window- Duties. . _ •
Sri r, I.' AB. R ITAVEY ikt
micscntd a petition from -thechtlea-
con and Clergy of Colchester, against any forth'cr (n
to the Roman Catholics,. in the-prayer, of which Irdetblifely con-
curred. •
STATE3IEN'fw
Oh' the motion'Of the an AN CS. I, 1.0g. .6f -0-1 c 1% IC REtt E
the House-resolved itself into a Committee of -Su
The CHANCELLOR 'of the EXCHlgelEll.' -then tet;7t
and spoke itsfdlloWs :L,Altliough, Sir, I Cannot-filfl;ar oitn -
gratulating the House upon the auspicious eircirnst nces tin-
-der which I rise-to resume riik- Statement of thc•T'in/nces of
the country, I- beg- the Cointnittee to beliel;e, th:iet do not
do so for the'rtiere piirpri;e of Making a flonrish, of frbm a 'dek
sire tQ lead the House of 'file Country' to indulge in'any un-
reasonable exultation as to - tile present, or atrY' e'ict,iavagant
anticipations' as to the fottti:e. Rut althoughl Ita.;:e no such
purpose, and althotigh there'inay be persons in MIS" Country.
and in all probability there are hi other countries, whiQcalous
of the' eminence of our prosperity, or ignorant of its causes,
may think that we have arrived at that eminence at.:our own
peril, and say to

nuinetosa par•abat

Excelsw turris tabillata ; unde altior tsset
€asus, etimpulsa prmceps in-mane ruiOw.,

Yet I will venture to tell thosewho -think thus, that 3 calm dis-
passionate vlaw will'eorivinee them, that our prosperity has
nothing holl4w in its foundation, artificial in its supetitrUcture,
Or flimsy in its general bearings—that it May he .co'lterriPlat*6d
with *unalloyed adMiratioti for the harmony of its proportions,
and the solidity of the basis Upon which it is founded. -**-- (Cheeri. )
—I Bay,..Sir, that far frorn thinking we are in thiS "(ranger, no
One who loOks •at the ituation in which we stand,and ap-
plies his mind fairly and philosophically 'to the causes' of our
prosperity, who will not see plainly and legibly' pour-
trayed befOre him that course of policy which' we ha:Veadopted
as the best calculated to strengthen our 'own resources and
promote the "happiness of the civilized world. (Hear; hear,
hear !)--With these observations, and .:wishing that ;he Com-
mittee will keep in view the" "principles tip-on which the po.
licy 1 have alluded toc:is founded, I will preeeed to the more
immediate objects or discussion. And in doing so,: I wish
in the:first plice to bring under the. notice- Of the House
a comparison -of the 'actual Revenue of the year past, and
the estimate which at the commencement of. it, 1 ventured
to make as to its probable- amount. Ar the .coMmeticz-
ment of last Session ?I assumed, in, the calculation which I
then made, that there-Would -he at the expiration of -the year :
I 824,, a surplus of 1,050,000/.1 Uponthii assumption, and car.
rying Oft_its view to theend of•the year 1027, the 'f-louse was in -
duced -to effect a considerable- "reduction of taxation,. amount-
ing -to '1'460,000/. In consequence, however*; of- an alteration
subsequently made by the House in my plansi,:tv which one-
half of this stun was lost to the Revenue in tite'c6tiiie of the
year, if the-surplus of 1824 had been 400,04q,.itVtead of
1,050,0007. at'wbicli; in the calculation in parted byr:e to the
House I had estimated it, My estimate, would- ki11:1%54,e been
realized, anti all the expectationi founded upOn it accomplished.
But instead of this, notwithstanding the loss sti:;.tain'ei by-the .
-reduction of taxation corning into more early and..consi,derable
operation, owing to the, cause I have e.xPlairted,;',i)laU I had
anticipated, I have the satisfaction to state to,. tlie:ll4lse that
the actual net surplus of the year 1824, Afto applying
5,150,000/. to ithe reduction of debt and the repayment of duty
made to the Silkmerchants,:opon- stock in hand,.t the'net sur-
plus is no less than. 1,,137;144E-4.(lodd:cheering)Ldxceeding no t
only that which would have been. Xufficient t0.,-corn.eiip to any
Anticipations, the allowance for the; unforeseen oectifitnce I had
alluded to being made; but eiceeding by:a 'coniderable sum
that which I had calculated:it would have been, had:no reduc-
tion of taxation have taken place. -(Hear, hear !,)Le.che Com-
mittee will pardon me if I draw their attention :a little to the
items, and some of the details, connected with those.':branehes
of the Revenue upon . which an increase, beyond tli..e)rpecia-
tionsl had formed has occurred.. At the beginning-Of last yeas,
I estimated the produce of the Customs'. Duties at 1i,550,0001.
Of these duties, 9000001. were repealed in the course' of the
year. The loss which has been sustained in consequence of
this reduction; is equal at the -least to the whole amount ie.
,pealed; because, in order to give greater- facilitiestothe exe-
cution of the liberal-principles which the !louse Cutd adopted
no less than 460,000/. was paid:hack to the holders tilSilk stock
in hand : and-if this be added to the diminution mikorally ac-
cruing froth the mere ieduction of duty, the total Nisi of reve-
nue cannot be lesi, and I believe has aCtuallyeiceecie4;9oo;ooo/.
But, 'suppoSing thiS demand upon the revenue of the Custonts
for duty upon the stock in hand of silk had not taken place, al-
lOWing that the loss *of one-half .of the reduction; of duty, vif.
450,0001. had taken place, 'My estimate would haye, been rea-
lized, if return of tbe Customs had been11;00,t):00/. Brat
saCh hai been the ImprOvement in this branch of therevenite,
that notwithstanding the drain to which 1 have adverted, the
produce for the year 1824, amounts to 11,327,000/...7,.-(Hear
This is the total result,. which the Committee will see, has con-
siderably exceeded the estimate which I made;.inci„;;Ould IniVe
been greater, if the 460,0001, had not been paid. to the holders
of Silk by the subsequent decision of the Hotite: :Now 'who t
are the circumstances which have led to this great increase
I think the proximate cause is to be found in that eittensi".°
our commercial policy: which we last year adopted--io t!me
greater . consequent capacity of the people. of this country !ur
• the consumption of foreign produce, the *Oa,
fore nations
rounity,-and above all the increased capieity of .
•to consume our produce, arising out of the :Pr doing
so
wtleittatift°lirias
_
- bweb
said
ftental-thakit Is the tea-
senfthe com-
is
--102 from the peenliar.situauon
titre of'pne year, or tfiat.it
think
.t.
cos
think :it. AipanAi upon
of this'br any-other cotintry; jatc..6nress' Sir,) - *!.
upon* principles totally di.
hurnanmature,:alicl;'ivhieh the
principle-which is rooted •
___. e t • _
bekty,_(Hear, mate(tsP the pOpu-
.ethhe-eermw' bgyrctasuklint Hear! et. it not
essent"fhut"" atone,.4s suffiCieritqa
account
lation in the'pf*lP.:°-- 1' 7 . . • . •
obvious principle in the constitution of
for it. Bet the'
..-; • ,'' '

-Seaman society which leads one nation to open its arms to an- eluding the
te Armyl Extraordinaries, the Commissariat, and
'lt is n• O't reasonable'isthita other-a principle which leads to the fostering of new connec- at
IdshSocuolttfltitiMilitia. I take at 7,911,7511.
cone, creating mutual wants betwixt nation and nation, and the netted with the increase of the militacryussfo thee!'"'itTi=r,:;:
desire of tasting new enjoyments-all of which a benevolent INa:tbwleeFeirti.enbdutwrelecl have. had
will opportunity of doing this
matter, as it really forms no
int ootfe yeec,,tunb
jieeetto
tdmistfeuts.s.othne
Providence has ordained for the improvement of the human
be impeded by s,iieerat(s.;rni The House has already voted the Navy Estimates.
cendition.-(Hear, hear !)--This principle may
-21,.,300,00zawnicifebI44 take
taitianl,37-6,6it.11. ; 4.1 r
last 31iscelianenets
war ; its course may be diverted from itr, natural channel ; it
ohgstitnhtoe reeisret,
iney be checked, and we in this country have been destined to pated. One or two circumstaninceysetri.myeatecoontrili
utli:teiontiteyartoatt'itiiicsi::
calling in
theirthe
placeniserable Irish tokens, and
apnuitt mg wieness examples in proof of it, by injudicious legislation.- •
(Hear, hear, beade--Buteas to the :principle itself, that is I.he realm. This I expect will costso,t(h)tem.stahic,loarlicsoimnoostt"
l-ways alive-it bases tendency to increase and confer be- bebe addedto
a larger sum of 200,0001. or, 300,001., which we shell
obliged pay to the united States of America by vir-
. -netts all over the world ; and therefore it is that any suc- tue of the Treaty of Ghent. By this Treaty it was provided
-eve or advancement founded, upon it cannot be attributed !;e should make pecuniary amend.. for certain slaves who, (W
lr-
a As
th war, had
had deserted from their masters to our protec-
-- to .Magee or the operation of accidental causes, but must rest they were private property it was thought that the
awn a basis.ot to be shaken. And if I add to this cause that cilianism. was a good one ; and a third party, the Emperor of
wcederful discovery which has acted like a lever upon the done on tliwase
most
tointedy to estimate
ltheir value. This was
powers of prod uction -I mean the steam engine-ewill any one, to not less than 250,04?0/.'a ButiNensceipaerse, two
sums would
noatrillioiLirliyt
bekeng all these things into consideration, suppose that I take to occur, again. Thus we are to arrive at a surplus for the
year 1825, of 443,5281. But-I shall request the House to al-
'' sanguine a yew of our condition, when I maintain that our low me, as they did last Session, to carry them forward, and
,
ieeereased intercourse with foreign nations is not the result of ac- see how we can apply the funds of the two succeeding years.-
cident, but of that wise system of Legislation which Parliament Lasto Stftses igoanrnle. brought
I Rtih:btHlrosne n.
GentlemanlB27 , an
thenand now I propose
proceeded
has seen the propriety ofadopting inlatter years; and that may to detail his calculations of the probable amount of die diffe-
feirly hold out to the Committee this increased produce of. the tentbranches of Revenue for the two ensuing years, drawing
comparisons with the past and present. The following will
revenue as arising from causes which may be assumed as the basis
lon. Gentleman :-
present a comprehensive view of the calculations of the Right
veon which to calculate the produce of the revenue for years to 1
cLace ?--.( Hear, hear !)-The next point to which I shall call the INCOME AND EXPENDITURE.
-
attention of the Committee, is one of the greatest moment, leas- .3 to 'ere ..-3 z fel en
much as it tends in many ways to affect the domestic situation and 0 wr4:gg:=
general comforts of the nation. I allude to the Excise. And here ...3 2 = ~.., .5
.eog
co tr.
again. / have the satisfaction of stating that the produce of this C = • ,::, =e; . 4,
'lg -, 8 a
I
b reech of the Revenue for lastyear, exceeds not only the produce of U.
a• n ee
• a.. --, e•
any former year,butwhat I had estimated it at in the views which .5 „............
at the commencement of the Session I communicated to the House. i eel rue F,,,q_ g
ee 7,
The estimate I made did not go beyond the amount of the pre- .
...-----..„----,
ceding year, viz. 25,625,0001., whereas the actual amount is
e.: ....eo
ce
e.. .1.1.1
13
2t.768,0001., being 1,143,0001. beyond my estimate.-(Hear, -ce IN: 4.-1, 10 I 7
0 6.M.1....W 1...
C.:
. hear !)--This I consider to be matter of congratulation to every -; -c,t.-ge:-Z -cas- ' " ..`' "' Pe i''' c"'
..- t-p,
marl who cares for the interests and comfort of those around .t 2 Zil •Cs .4
g t 47; 0
e., 2
him ; and when lam addressing the Legislature of the country, :et,. e. ee -
=7. e.-- -4,e..m- et
0.,- .-c eel -- -- 1. • e-
,it is impossible I should hesitate to ascribe a desire for the wel- c 4.. -a -4 c. ----; cc, a' =:-..-
-1... (z.. ?=.....=d0s ..,= ...
fare and 'happiness of the people whom they represent-( Hear !) TEree: ifg SSig' s = I'''l z
. P
, I have in my hands a paper which I need not trouble the House Q =e, c=c.= ©
... e. e,
-to read at length, chewing the increase which has taken place .tv F.:, p 0 .t.; F' s'.' r.
.7%.,
.7.1 Y; =
upon every individual article of Excise Revenues, and indica- ee
25. e..-e• :at 251 i',..5-t
- =1
, ....... ~, .. . .Fere •:,,eo ee
..F. a a fe: .% _ • _
tint: beyond the possibility of a doubt that the course of policy .e. e'. -e. C ".? = g -c, c-6 c):::, cra
..„_
_. ..„„c, = 0.1900=0
l.g.g7J-4
_olfa.= OG o=oo=o
which we have pursued is conductive to the ease, the comfort, 074 " a .4% —...p: ....
„..-•
_
and the happiness of the people.-(Hear le-el do not know -1-sg' 1-14 7=40 m-e.t7:41-4:-Z-e -
whether I ought -he trouble the House with such minute details cga.-=. at asr. gavgs.ll..
5..,F.. t -..-*. ',-"= --=-=-•,-,=,-;-= ' ..-1
-hut, at all events, it would rot be a mere waste of time.- *,,,, 1-•-•:• ,it tits tat- -S oo3cz co c-.. ' •
e:,-- csc=ccce 7
(Hear, hear !)- This paper shews the proportion in which the
-4-• ...CV.';' cr,...ntr-,
erticles of Excise exceed in the amount of duty paid for the year ...,_, ,e- .:1 P ee. - 7 =. P 1,:.--=
..Z CI r.""...M •—' Pr - -:. -: F'; n
1?.14, the average of the three foregoing years. The first article "A ^ f.e.s'l'egg.:_; r..-.1-bzogg
F, nm m=,....mg.
is the Auction Duty, which is calculated upon the quantity ah--'''-:: -' e° • • t'tf' ..14, f. g o --.7:
:re= '2• • a >e• oh 1 '
charged :-this chews an increase of 12 per cent. above the three 105 24 = n = = Pr_e") 'V ?-1
• g. • n• f1.cp.8,2
preceding years.--(Heer !)-The others are as follow :- U. . . . . 2 . ,w-
-.... "-,
Strong Beer - - - 15 per Cent. a ,-3 CI 47 w,'
E eet.
Table Beer - • 20 II • s . = 5 5 5 :=1 =.,
Bricks - - . - 40 ss.
Tiles - 1" ,7 • I
e • e 15 o. g
nin
cd.
Candles . - . 91 -v s.= -4
-.. ..,
Wax Candles - - - a ~c...
- *.)
Coffee. - - - - 3i En • f"-
..-
Cocoa - ' - - 6i >e: 'C.
- - 20 C.
Glass - to
- ag' ..2.! -4- • 47-4
Cider and Perry - - 12 Atre - .-41--1,---1 ,1.p,4 !!). Itil tel
Leather - - - 10 §'3 "e. 4--it-na -.2 -hg?....ti t....
Skins - - - - 15 ce-te 1. .Ff47-P s•-• .F..F.F..-P...'"lt Ei.-5 "*
Linens - - - 7 a ~.. ct*G-4,
M .. alt - - ' 12 .
.... „. . 8 z... -.tB ..2 rp_R-sw F -..4
.1 .. - - - - 7 .-3:1-i ''',..."
r*-~'-...1 1:li ....5...1 =II ,I 1
Soap .. - - - 7' gr.- t La-gti-i- - ..e.-P
--
Soft Snap - - V
121 S e co .e....c.=V2 14 6.43,•••-" 0' be ,r. 2 (1
British Spirits . - 66 5-, « --,...-... ~1-0.-7.-..-P
Foreign- ditto - - - 24 M 28?.=1,3..?..1t2=;g14 m
2
Sweets - - - - 45 se ,e, ee 1,3
Tea - - - - li ,
...--7:- c,.1 -4 ti.tsts 0,
= ...... -,14-=-4en In 1-1-m Ole
Wrought Plate - 15 .... = ce..-.e.= ...e ....,...„.., 5
'a .?, P.PP's,':.= ‘P ==.-7,0t.s ‘s
Upon Salt, continued the Right Hon. Gentleman, there has - (.4 .ggsgg n 71-^=::.'v, I
19,-,:i souse diminution, owing to the expectation confidently , F r. 6- oE. oo 4- i'..'S)3B-it

0 0
1.41
l'-'"
.10 -4'-.J...1. 10 13
0 001.4. W b 0 M MR__
. .1.- ... :.' .1 .41 '- 4 . t., I. 0 p.,1 IND a.-
..CA ...,,,.
I''' "ri
... 04m=4,- COl w
-J. G. 0 t,.....
=pa J...,-. ...4,1,3m.. tr.'
o.c. -1-1.0 .41.-.---. ...T.
Gs. ".4.-1 c,,0-,00t,,,,. C)
..p.., 1.4
-. t
. e..a =, C -.M
0 .--, 0 i.... z
-E - . --. = =o o C CO, n 61:0 00 0000..0
0 C
01 0 m .1..... ...;-.
.0,.. t. 4
'
...W.. WI-- C3l-.P. n
•
2.5-,... • ccilt 6-74 savgash 2
FfC .. .. _. .. .... .. p,
;., iOO Cc C.,==.=.o
.1.6 g, 114:42 Zg szesEls
w =
. .1 .1 0 0 0 0. 3,3 ...•
C 2 ng C' C) 0.- t..., ph....1 ~.1••••
''''.. ,-- --.1... -.0 ........-1_,..,
0 C)-•... ~ oo ::,:-, o C""--I0 0 C 4, 0
0 "- 0 0
~0 -P -.
5"...trt., S, ..==^=-C'o
Cl K.".. ..g. ooSoz=
.., ~, CCD 4....0 0-. csc=cc c) I

Class -
Cider and Perry
Leather
Skins -
Linens
Malt
Paper
Soap -
Soft Soap
British Spirits
Foreign- ditto
Sweets
Tea -
Wrought Plate
Goon Salt, continued the Right Hon. Gentleman, there has
been some diminution, owing to the expectation confidently
entertained that the duties upon that article were about to ex-
pire. But in every other article there has been an increase.—
(Hear, hear !)—The next branch of the Revenue to .which I
3/4411 advert, is the Stamps. The House will recollect that in
the course of last year, after the first statement which I made to
the House relative to the duty on Law Stamps,'l thought my-
self bound to propose the repeal of that duty, and I anticipated
that it would cost the Revenue 200,0001. The amount of the
-produce of Stamps for the last year I had estimated at
aad I considered that one-fourth only of the reduc-
tom of duty would actually be lost since the repeal was not
to be operative before October. 1 expected, therefore, the
praduce of this part of the Revenue to be 6,750,0001. but the
ataiial amount is 7,244,0001.—(11ear, hear !)—Thus we have
the advantages of cheap justice and no sacrifice of Revenue—
we have gained a good, and sustained no loss. The Post Office
r-tarn I had estimated at 1,460,0001.—the real produce is
1,5ii'0,0001. an increase naturally to be expected, from the
tr,,:reased activity in the various departments of national
lostry, as seen in the other parts of the Revenue. Although
tberc were some individuals who thought that I was too san-
guine in the view which I took of the resources of the coun-
try„ and feared that 1 should expose the Revenue to risk,
when last year I proposed these reductions, every one, 1 hope,
will now admit, that so far from exceeding the limits of my
subj.ct-, I was in reality within- bounds. And no one, Sir,
viii blame me, I think, if I offer to apply the same principles
to the legislative financial enactments of this year, assuming
the same progressive improvement which I made, the basis
of that system of policy which I last year recommended to
Parharnent.—( Hear, hear, hear !)—Having, therefore, explain-
ed to the Committee the state of the Revenue of last year, as
compared with the Estimate which I ventured to submit to
tir. House, I will now unfold the Estimate which I have formed
for the present year, and explain the grounds upon which 1
fooad it. In the first place, I will detail the figures, and then
explain the ground upon which I make the calculation. I
'take then the whole receipt for 1825 at 56,445,3701. The total
- expenditure I take at 56,001,842/. giving a surplus of 443,5281.
Upon each of these items I will say a word or two. I take the
Customs at 11,340,0001. a sum, which, the Committee will ob.
serve exceeds the actual produce of last year, the grounds of
which I will explain. I think I have said enough to satisfy the
Hause that there is nothing unreasonable in taking the financial
results of 1824 as the basis of calculation, deducting those taxes
which will come into operation this year. Taking therefore
11,327,7411, I add 50,0001. as the first benefit, to be derived
from the reduction of certain bounties, which upon the system '
. lately adopted Parliament has agreed to cut down. Then I
add 460,0001. being the amount paid last year upon the stock i
of silk in hand. These being casual are not likely to occur
again this year. A total is thus gained of 11.837;741/. From
this, however, I think myself bound to deduct 410,0001. for
that portion of takes which was remitted last year, and
came into operation this year. The total probable Re-
venue therefore is 11,427,7411. ; but in order to be within
bounds I take it at 11,350,0001., leaving as a sort of allowance
77,0001. The Excise estimate at 26,400,000/. ;• last year it
wits 26,768,000 ; but I deduct from this 237,0001: for the re-
mission of the Salt duty, and the duty on Rum, which was re-
duced last year. This will give us 26,531,000/. ; hot I prefer,
for the sake of caution, taking it at 26,400001., the more mo-
derate. sum.. The Stamps I put down at 7,100,000, allowing
for the completion of the reduction of Law Stampt 150,0001.
The Assessed and Land Taxes 1 estimate at 4,875,0001. which
it founded upon the most accurate calculation made at the
Stamp Office. The Post Office I take at 1,500,0001. and
Miscellaneous Revenue at 750,000. I ought to state, that
the Miscellaneous is mere this year than it is .likely to be
again, to a payment of 100,0001. to be made by the Ne-
therlands, under a late Treaty relating to the East Indies.
I add also a sum due by the Trustees of the Bank-. These
various items make the total Revenue for the present year
56,445,3701. With regard to the probable Expenditure, the first
Estimate I have to state is-for the Consolidated Fund, which I
pot down at 37,610,0001., derived in the following manner :
Interest of Debt - - £27,233,670
Do. Exchequer Bills "' - 40,000
•
Civil List. - - - - 2,050,000
Half-pay Annuity - - 2,800,000
Sin.. Icing FUnd - - 5,486,654
"Pelt the-Sinking Fund there iS a greater charge, owing to the
ant made to the non-assenting to the conversion of the 4
7estim....,`"2lta- The interest on Exchequer for this purpose is
"MAK The next item a the army, which, in-

He should now explain why he calculated upon this difference
between the produce of 1826 and 1827. Ile expected it to
arise from an increase in the Customs, to be produced by a
measure he had in contemplation to submitl to the House, and
which he should shortly state. The House was aware, from
the repeated discussion which had taken place within the last
two years, of the question of the duties charged upon the im-
portation of sugar. Upon the exportation of that article to
foreign countries, a. bounty was now allowed, which exceeded
the amount of duty paid by three shillings per cwt. In 1866 it
was proposed to raise the duty upon this article, from twenty-
seven to thirty shillings per hundred-weight, and it was
then objected, that when the price of sugar was so low,
it would be hard to impose an increased import duty. It
was then agreed that the high duty should attach to the high
prices only, and a scale was adopted, by which sugar was made
to pay an import duty of twenty-seven, twenty-eight, and
twenty-nine shillings, according to the price of the article in the
market. Now from that it appeared to him that the drawback
was calculated upon the high duty, whereas, in point of fact,
the revenue received a duty of twenty-seven shillings, and
paid a drawback of thirty. This could be founded on no true
principle, and could be favourable to none of the interests of
this country. It could not be expected that Foreign Powers,
who were always quicksighted enough to see opportunities
for heaping all sorts of restrictions on our commerce, should
not perceive that this difference of three shillings per cwt. be-
tween the duty and the drawback, would come into their trea-
sury. And the fact was that it did so ; for they imposed a
higher duty upon sugars imported from this country than
upon any others, or than it was reasonable they should pay.
He was sure that the House and the country were convinced,
that these affairs, could not stand until they were placed upon
a sound, intelligible, and plain principle.—(Hear, hear !)—Elc
would therefore put this matter on its legs-4 Hear ! )—lt would
not be right to make the alteration abruptly, and he therefore
proposed that the drawback should continue to July 1828,
and then cease. Ile had no objection, at the same time,
that the scale of ascending duties should end altogether, and
the import be fixed at twenty-aeyen shillings. They should
thus get rid of the anomaly of putting an increased duty upon
an article of prime necessity in all stations of life, like sugar,
when it became dear. Ile flattered himself that although this
measure might for a time affect particular interests, it could
be opposed by no practical or solid objections; especially as
he considered it practicable to give those interests an equi-
, valent, by a reduction of duty upon some other articles of their
produce, which must fully relieve them from any well-founded
apprehensions. The result of these calculations,_ founded upon
the estimates he had ventured to submit to the House, was,
then, that in the year 11124, they should have a surplus of re-
venue over expenditure amounting to 1,437,7441. ; in 1825 it
would amount to 443,5281. ; in 1826, to 884,6761.; and in 18127,
Ito 1,254,676/. ; the total of which would be 4,000,6241 Having
shewn that they should have this surplus, he should do as he
did last year. He then took the liberty of asking the House,
what they should do with it? He now asked the same ques-
tion, ,and meet it with the same answer. He thought they
could do a great deal of good with it, and that it was their duty
to do as much as they could : and he thought he could satisfy
the House, that the course he should propose for dealing with
this surplus, notwithstanding that it might affect particular
- views and stand in the way of particular interests, yet, that
looking at all the great interests of the country, upon an en-
larged and liberal view, he thought it would be found calcu-
lated to extend a permanent and solid benefit totall parts of the
world with which we had the most remote connection. The
relief which he proposed for the country by the reduction of
taxation would have three objects.—First, the extension of
our ..commerce, and the inereasine.. of our facility to corn-
aume foreign produce. The • second, was that of carrying
further the attempts-which had already been made for the ex-
he was not disposed to overlool: the relief
tinction of that monstrous evil, smuggling.—(Cheers)—Thirdli,
derivable from the
removal of direct taxation,
and of which so much had been said
by some Hon. Members. He was prepared
to acquiesce in
what they asserted, provided that by such an acquiescence he
was not driven to the abandonment of those two other objects
which, in his conscience, he believed were a thousand times,
nay, ten thousand times more important to the substantial and
IHe• permanent relief of the country.
was well aware to what
he exposed himself by this declaration. He should be told, as
he had been that evening, that if he wanted to forward the
popularity of the Government, he ought to proceedin: this

• course. But he did not wish to forward the popularity of the
Government at the expence of what he believed to be the real
and substantial interests of the country ; and he thought the
Government would not deserve that popularity, if for its sake
alone they abandoned the principles which had already worked
so much good, and from which, if followed up, they fully be-
lieved the country would still derive incalculable benefits.--
First, then, with regard to extending our intercourse with the
world, and our own consumption of the products of foreign
nations. The House had gone along with him--or perhaps he
was taking too much .credit to himself when he said that—
( Hear !)—but the House had seen the good sense of gettin!; rid
of the prohibitory system with which our commerce had been
shackled. In that work much had been done, but much re-
mained to do. He hoped that no great length of time would
elapse before his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Hus-
kisson) would submit a proposition to the House for reduc-
ing to something like a moderate compass all these prohibitory
restrictions, which went to exclude foreign produce without
the slightest necessity tor any such exclusion. For although
articles of that description might find their way here to a cer-
tain extent, yet not so as to injure the interests of our great
manutactories as they were now established. He should not
interfere with the intentions of his Right lion. Friend, further
than by adverting to one particular article of peculiar import-
ance, he meant the duty on foreign iron. He hoped that there
were none interested in the production of iron in this country
who would think it incompatible with their interests, that sonic
alteration should be made in this duty. Look at the state in
which the iron trade now was, within a short time the price of
iron had risen to a wonderful extent, so much hnleed, as to shew
that the demand was beyond the supply produced by this coun-
try. Ile did not think that this was attributable to any casual
request for the article, such as the making of rail-roads. He
did not believe that all the iron was to be taken from the bowels
of the earth to cover its surface in that way—(A laugh.)—lie
believed it to arise from the increase of prosperity all over the
world, plainly exhibited in this largely increased demand for
articles which entered so essentially into the coinforta and
necessities of private familes. He understood that orders•for
hardware were continually received by the manufacturers
of Birmingham and Sheffield, which they were wholly un-
able to execute from the Want of the material, which was
at too high a price for the parties to pay. These orders then
found their way to other countries where the work was in-
ferior, but where the cheapness of the article enabled them
to supersede our manufactures. He was bound to say that'
he did not think the proprietors of iron works in this country
would be actuated by any narrow views or alarm at the
of a few thousands, or that they would have any jealously at
the importation of three or four hundred tons of foreign iron.
The import duty which was now at 31. he meant to reduce to
about 11. 10s. This reduction would cost the Revenue nothing
at all. On the contrary, as it was a reduction of a duty al-
most prohibitory, he believed that it would yield an increase
to the Customs. With respect to the reduction of this particular
duty he thought they ought to proceedswith caution, and•that it
should not be applied at once to all foreign countries indiscri-
minately. One of his great objects had always been to make
it appear to be the interest of foreign nations to adopt our prin.
ciplex. But .we must set the example. We had long been
in the trammels ourselves, and it must be wondered at if
they did not follow our,footxteps so fast as abstract reasoning
might lead us to expect. But there were some States who
followed our example, and were ready to give free admission
to our produce and manufactures, it we allowed them the same
privileges and advantages. There were, indeed, others who chose
to keep up the prohibitory system, and rather heaped restric-
tion upon restriction, than agreed to their removal. Towards
those he • confessed he thought we were not bound to yield an
advantage without receiving some equivalent. He should,
therefore, propose to accompany this measure with some re-
aerations as to particular countries. Not that he believed this
;indisposition to acquiesce in our principles would be more than
temporary. Ile had no doubt they would be followed by all
the world, provided we followed them up.—(hear !). But
they must prove themselves in earnest, and not do one thing in
one year and another in the next.—(Cheers.)—Therefore it was
that he would apply the present surplus in the same manner,
and consistently with the same policy in which it applied in
the last—notwithstanding the prayers of the petitioners, and
the opinions which some Honourable Members had stated in
that House. Ile should now proceed to state the reductions
which he proposed with regard to other foreign articles upon
which the duty did not amount to a prohibition, but either
pr
prevented their consumption altogether, or
'rise
first of these wasessed with great
weight upon those who consumed them.
the Duty on Hemp, which, though not a matter which greatly
concerned the whole country, yet was of vast importance to
one of its ereatest interests_-- ie meant its shipping. This duty
was exceedingly high, anti it was manifestly. desirable to afford
t every protection and advantage to our shipping, and to enable
it to maintain that wonderful superiority, .which, after all,
was the real bulwark of our strength. The loss to the re-
venue lie should calcolate at one half, as he meant to reduce
the duty SO per cent. It was now one penny per pound, and
he proposed to make 'it one halfpenny ; this reduction would
cost the revenue 100,000/. The next item was one of great
importance as connected with the produce of the West Indies;
he meant the article of Coffee, which paid a duty of one shil.
ling per pound—at least this was the duty upon West India
Coffee. Though he did not mean to say that this was a duty
which pressed heavy upon the inferior classes, who were not
the majority of its consumers, yet he found it true that the con-
sumption of this article had not kept pace with that of other ar.
ticks of a like nature, Therefore he had a right to assume that
the increased duty of 1819 had curtailed its consumption. lie
likewise considered it advantageous to give encouragement to
the other produce of the West Indies besides sugar. It was well
known that the cultivation of Coffee required less labour than
the cultivation of sugar ; and if they encouraged the consump-
tion of their coffee, the proprietors might be induced to apply
their negroes to that work, in which they would have to en-
counter far less severe hardships than in their present occupa-
titra. He therefore proposed a reduction of 50 per cent. upon
West India Coffee, and he calculated that the loss of the Re-
venue would be 150,0001. The next article of this description
of which the consumption appeared to him to be materially
affected by the amount of duty, was one to which his attention
had been often drawn, and which had been often noticed in
that House. For the last two Sessions he lied been regularly
asked whether any thing was to be done with the duty on wine;
he had always said that he was not, at those particular times,
in a situation to interfere with the question; but he had said, at
the same time, that it was one of great moment, and well deserv-
ing the attention of Parliamene. He had never argued against
the principle, because he could not shut his eyes to the fact,
that the consumption had slever increased with the duty, but on
the contrary, that since the last advance it had sensibly dimi-
nished. He would not have it supposed that wine was altoge-
ther, and merely, an article of luxury. That would be going too
tt'itter t for
sirableitta
hmedicalt.oc
such
pu qualitiesri,oseweres i t
shouldliighly
bvealpulaabcedle,
moreand it was
within the reach of the poor. To a large class of the people
not indeed the lowest, but one entitled to all the considera-
tion and relief which could he afforded them, this reduction
would a great and practical benefit. To the higher classes,
it was perhaps not necessary for bins to allude to them, for it
was not upon that ground that he made the proposition—but
undoubtedly they would experience a relief from it, which lie
hoped nobody would grudge them. Yet he desired that no one
would believe the reduction to be made on their account. Since
the duties had been made so high, the consumption had dimi-
nished, and with it the consequent power of the foreign nations
who supplied us, to consume our produce and our manufac-
tures. uurisrie sitoo.o
many
Nothing,ladnuytyb (c:nu
wine.ctil ee
branches
e offo roleun,
rwt aies
trademy eotarhreascnalltici3luoc
11ca,ctdeld7totlo,gni
ato•nefdat tilisBn
eon in 3-:
whenywgasrelacstesc,
thanh efoattind thethe
escoenntantinmlen.io'Tthoe have
been cons thei
d
irtaitbyl
ave-
rage yearly consumption of French wine, taken upon the,
years
1801, 1802, and 1803, was 2'-
44,559 gallons. That of all the other
sorts, the wines of Portugal, Spain, and Germany, amounted
to 7,396,165 gallons. And he tbund the consumption of the
year 1824, when nearly a quarter of a century
notwithstanding all the increase of the population and wealth
of the country during that period, he found it a positive fact,
that of French wine the consumption was 254,268 gallons,
while that of the other foreign wines amounted to no inore than
4,847,976 gallons. How, then, were they to account for this ?
Was lie to be told that the rnahners of the country had changed,
and that people did not drink so much as formerly ? He did
not know whether this might not be the case or not ; hut there
was another explanationssvhich was, that wine was so dear, they
could not get it.—(A laugh.)--And it appeared to him to be a
good plan to make it cheaper, and place it within their reach.
The present duty
upon French wines was per gallon,
or 1441. 7s. tid. per tun ; h
t at upon the wines of Portugal, 7s.
7d. per gallon, or 951. llss per tun. The duties in the years to
which he had before alluded, namely,-1801, 1802, and
.1803,.
were—upon French wines Bs. N. and Bs. 19d._; upon Por-
tuguese,• 63. sd. and 6s. 6S. If N.
he reduced the duty to
that amount, he had a re-
righ t anticipate a sorrespondinf
re-
storationof the consumption of that period. But he alum d go
further.and it
Such a reduction would not answer the pnspoSe,
-was useless to make the did it eomelete-
experiment unless they
ly. The present duty upon French wines being-11s. 4Pergal-
lon, he meant to reduce to six -shillings and that Upon ithe
wines of Portugal, the Rhine and Spain he should :reduce from
7s. 7d. to four e more t an'one half. The House
would find that they e duty would
be
a -reduction of
from one shilling to proposed w
bottle on French
one and three- pence a . . as
wine, and nearly, aP
ese. going,
• I tng upon - ortugu
he thus did, to a lower dui , thanof 1801, and lie thought
aythat he made' no extravagantex c calculation
th attaken wben he expected the
future consumption to
upon the average of
the years he had mentioned. In Ireland, the difference of the
e
consumption, slice the solsalicement of the duties, was a.tll

more striking. And he must confess that he was not sorry to
find that the ancient spirit and conviviality of that country had
been so abridged. Ile liked that hearty, open, honest hespi-
-1 tality which was a part of her national character, and wished to
see it maintained. Ile did not see (recollecting always that she
had no assessed taxes) he did not see why they should not en-
deavour to raise the consumption of wine in Ireland also ; and
he should thtrefore propose not to go so far, but to bring it up
to two-thirds of what it was, by reducing a correspondent por-
. tions of the duty. lie .should not state in detail, but in round
numbers, his estimate of the loss which the Revenue would
incur by this reduction. Including Scotland (which was also a
hospitable country, and deserved the relief) he supposed that
the whole deficiencies would amount to 230,000/. The next
branch of Revenue which he meant to bring under the con-
sideration of the House was one of very peculiar importance,
as it referred not only to the principle of relief to the
consumer of the article, but would most essentially and with
peculiar force apply to the extinction ofsmuggling. Smuggling
was, he averred, without exception, the greatest evil which the
country endured ; it surrounded our coasts, and penetrated
alike the splendid palace of the Noble, and the humble cottage
of the peasant. It carried temptation every where, and almost
every where its seduction was complete. What was the conse-
quence? Why, they were compelled to impose penalties for
the protection of the law. Then, he would say, as the evil
was in the law, let them alter the law.--(Cheers.)—l.et them
look to the results of this course, as it had been told, when
he proposed to reduce the duty on Spirits in those countries,
that he Should do incalculable mischief, and make all the
people drunk.—(.>. Laugh.)—No such thing. On the-contrary,
the people had been restored to order and peace. When the
experiment had been thus made with such triumphant success,
why should they refuse to es:tend it to this country ? Every feel-
ing of duty and humanity—every view of interest required it.
He would not say that they should do it all at once, because he
was unable to turn his attention to evuy thing. When he had
been pressed hard,,iie had said—" Don't press a willing horse."
—(Cheers.)—They were upon the course, and if time were
given him, he'lloped to run the goal in triumph. He was al-
,luti ing to the effects produced in Ireland by the duties being taken
-off Spirits. Now it was quite obvious, that if the reduction of those
duties.in Scotland and Ireland had been attended with such bene-
fits there, it had been attended by something of a corresponding
evil here. Although they had driven smuggling out of Scotland,
get, with their, (he was going to make a hasty reflection)—(A
laugh)—hut he would say they had exercised considerable
sagacity, and transferred their operations in such a way that
large quantities of Scotch spirits were smuggled across the
border. From these practices the morals of the people were
contaminated, and the most serious evils to the community
at large engendered. It was impossible, therefore, that they
could long abstain from putting an end to an evil so alarm-
ing. What he proposed was this : —he would say it was ab-
solutely necessary, and they never could effect their purpose
unless they applied to England some system like that which
had been introduced in Scotland and Ireland. Every body
knew, that as the law now stood in England, though the
distiller might make a raw spirit, yet he could not sell it
until it had passed through the hands of the rectifier, who
mixed it with other compounds, and then sent it forth to the
consumer. The first spirit made by the distiller was what was
called whiskey, and was not allowed to be sold in this coun-
try. He could not take upon himself to say whether the peo-
ple would like whiskey better than gin, or vice versa but he
was sure they never could have the duties on their right foot-
ing until some measures were adopted such as he meant to pro-
pose. It would not be applied to the extinction of gin, because
the rectifier would still have the power of manutacturing his
article. But it would enable the distiller to see his without
subjecting it to that process. Among its other advantages,
this would be a measure of relief to the Hon. Member for
Aberdeen, who, amongst his many unfortunate acts of smug-
gling, had announced to them that he was always in possession
of some excellent Scotch whiskey.—He therefore congratulated
the Hon. Member upon his approaching exemption from
these penalties. But this was not to be accomplished without
a reduction of the duty, and it was objected by many that they
ought not to render ardent spirits too easy of acquirement. This
was quite true ; but they already had them so, through the
means of the smuggling from Holland and France. Thus they
should not only make spirits cheaper, but by shutting out the
smuggled article, they would bring a large quantity into the
Excise which now did not find its way there. He should not
advise that the alteration be effected all at once. What he pro-
posed was, that the duty on Spirits, which was now 10s. 6d. per
gallon, should be hereafter reduced to ss. on that distilled from
malt, and 6s. on such as was distilled from raw grain. Ile also
proposed to extend the reduction to colonial spirits manufac-
tured from grain, with this difference, that the reduction should
be from 10s. 6d. to Bs. lie made this distinction, because
he thought it would not be dealing fairly with the inte-
rests of the manufacturers in this country if some advantage
were not given to them in consideration of the artificial price of
grain which the Corn Laws created. One effect would also
arise out of this measure to the distiller of rum in the Colonies.
He could send his spirit here to be converted into gin by the
rectifiers, or he could sell it as whiskey. Without troubling
the House with the details, he would assume the loss to the
Revenue arising from this change of system and duties to be
750,0001. There was another article, which, although of small
amount and of local consumption, had always appeared to
him of great importance—the duty on cyder. Hon. Gentle-
men might think it of no great importance, but when lie told
them that die jails of the counties in which this article was pro-
duced, were continually filled with persons who evaded the law,
he was sure the House would not think it inconsistent with its
duty to remove the cause of so much evil. Ile meant to reduce
this duty 50 per cent. which would cost hut 15,0001. to the re-
venue, the whole produce of the duty being 30,0001. He heard
an Honourable Member say, " reduce it to 10,000." He was
not nice upon the matter, and it might stand at that. Ile had
fixed it at 1... UM. because the parties themselves asked but
for that. From the number of petitions which had been
presented
vi
h7enyoentaccorpoies.ot e
ttdrott
u.l theiuninip:tteest Irlio;:tyr
case
al,arehdnisnreai
eoosidllnutfaot otsift
that
ieuotrfi,ennst
dhhgtchtsoee persons
mbeeiwserAphfensaceoloeemral
extinguishnuwfiet i
benefit
di
wrapped
uoert
ipha.
tincumbentghohrpi
arnetpepeiniewawekeldvtaatielaussihtrnfoipayotdoartninkai
v:ntnleihdneuleelgaiti pvsevhnl
eiotwi
011 naisiwauepwsseal
pi
which
oi
riogli
teefnnhnawrejoitt
the
appealed
without
ioeeetf .
cswtamtsiiscmcfhyotnittnity at large. It was impossible to extend the com-
mercetibelonged
them,losnuge conferring;ea dfspati
true principles upon which he was acting, he would ask them
whether they would suffer their own personal interests to weigh
in the scale. If there were such persons, he blushed for them,
as belonging to that rank and station of which he was an humble
member—

" Incipit ilisorum contra to stare perenturn
" Nobilitus, claramque facem profeare pudendis.

He would say the same to the middling classes of society ;
and they must not assume that he was doing nothing for their
good, because lie did not adopt exactly the course which they
pointed out. These observations would tell with peculiar weight
if they applied to Ireland. The evils of Ireland were of long
growth, they were deeply seated, and had many roots. Much
had been done for her, and much remained to be done. He knew
no part of the world to which commercial freedom would be of
so much use as to Ireland. She possessed peculiar advantages,
and in his opinion was, that part of the British dominions
which was most open to the favourable employment of British
capital. To this portion of the empire, therefore, it became the
Legislature to direct their particular attention. It was in-
cumbent upon them to grant to Ireland every boon in their
power. Upon this point he appealed from the interest of
individuals to their justice and sympathy. Was it not more
gratifying and just to see Ireland rising in the scale of nations,
and taking her seat beside us, than to leave her to take the
chance of any subsequent opportunities.—(Hear, hear !)—He
contended they ought to begin at that end. The population of
Ireland was seven millions ; her revenue only three millions
and a half. What could be the cause of this but her unhappy
condition ?—(Hear !)—Let them but foster her resources, and
draw the streams of capital in the country, and lie would wager
his existence that before long three millions and a half would
be doubled--(llear !)—They ought to begin with their new
system there and {,o on with it steadily, otherwise they did
mischief. He thought if they agreed to what he proposed,
r good would be effected to Ireland. He was not able, however,
to.comply with all the wishes of Hon. Members, although he
thanked God, there were resources to meet some of them. Ile
had been much pressed to do something towards a reduction
of the Assessed Taxes, and something he would do although it
might reach the wealthier classes. The Hon. Member for Read-
ing, .(31r. Monck), the Honourable Member for Surrey oppo-
site-(3lr. Denison), and the Honourable Member for Surrey
near him (Mr. H. Sumner), had all pressed him on the sub-
ject. He should be able to comply with one part of their
prayer, viz. to give some relief to the poorer people.—
Amongst the many objections to the Assessed Taxes, none was
greater than the vexation they created ;—(Hear !)—and he
thought they could not do better than remove the pressure from
the sore places. He did not know that it was worth while to
trouble the House with a detail of the small items which formed
part of his scheme upon this head. The catalogue of them was
long, and no great deal of money involved in the removal of
them, and they were so small that perhaps the House would
smile at his affecting importance with reard to them. They
would at least do great good by the removal, and if the House
desired it, he would read them (Nr.—(Heat, hear !)--The fol.

lowing statement would chew the whole of the Reductions he
proposed making, including those he had just adverted to :--
DUTIES PROPOSED TO BE REPEALED, ♦ND ESTIMATED

ANNITAL LOSS.
Hemp—Reduce to 4d. per lb. (half) .. - -rlOO,OOO
Coffee--Half the duty of Is. per lb. - - 150,0f10
%Vine—French, from lls. sid. per gallon to fis. }
_ 230,000
Portugal from 7s. 7d. to 4s.
British Spirits—from 103. lid. per gal. to ss. from malt
6s. from grain]. 750,000 -
Rum—From 10s. 6d. per gallon to Bs.
Cyder—From 30s. per hogshead to 15s. (a) • 15,000
Assessed Taxes - - - _ 270,000
Iron and other Prohibiting Duties
(a) -
__Nil

X.1,513,00*

---
Four-wheel carriages drawn by ponies . - - .C 857
Occasional Waiters, &c. - -
Coachmakers' licenses - . - -
Carriages sold by auction or on commission- -- 31,13494:
Mules carrying ore, &c. - - - - In
Persons quitting houses after the commencement of
the year - - _ _ - 5,000
Houses left in the care of a person - - 4,00
One additional window allowed where there is a
cheese-room or dairy - - - . 1,000
Farmhouses occupied by labourers - - 1,000
Husbandry servant, occasionally employed as groom 2,000
Farmers, letting husbandry horses to hire - 4,000
Taxed carts - - - - - 10,913
Houses and Windows--Whole of the duty on win-
dows, on houses not having more than 7. Inha-
bited house duty on houses under 10/. rent . 235,000.

£276,984-
By these means they would be enabled to give relief to those
persons who stood most in need of it. The removal of the house
tax, which he proposed, would relieve no fewer than 527,64
persona. The window tax repeal would relieve 635,06 pet-
sons.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—And he did believe that every one
of those petitioners, whose cause the Honourable Member for
Surrey had advocated, would feel pleasure in seeing his poor
and indigent neighbour relieved from all vexation upon this.
head, from pecuniary loss, and perhaps from a gaol in the end.
Ile hoped in this respect he had engaged upon his side the best
feelings of these petitioners. The taxes which he proposed to
repeal for the greater extension of commerce and manu-
factures, he hoped would give a death-blow to the giant-
smuggler, and carry relief to those quarters which required*"
it. The total loss likely to arise from these reductions
between tile present period and 1827, would be about 3,630,0001.
The difference betwixt this sum and four millions would be•
kept to be applied to the payment of duties upon stock in hand
of wine. " With these propositions in his hand he should not
fear to go before any assembly of the people of England at any
time, and under any circumstances, and appealing to their jus-
tice, candour, and reason, without any overweening presumpe
tion, declare hat Imbed done the best lie could for their service,
arid venture to claim their approbation.—(The Right Hon. Gene
tleman then' sat down amidst the loud cheering of the House,
which lasted for some time.)
Mr. 1101iME SUMNER addressed the House, but was
totally inaudible in the gallery, from the tumult occasionedl by
Members leaving the House.
Sir H. PARNELL, expressed his perfect satisfaction at what
had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman respecting the
financial situation of Ireland.
Mr. MA BERM' hoped that the Committee would not, by
admitting the propriety of many of the general principles upon •
which the Right Hon. Gentleman had founded his able state-
ment, be considered as pledging themselves to his details, and
particularly where his- practice was at variance with the system
which he advocated. He begged also not to be considered as
admitting that the Right Hon. Gentleman's disposal' of hiit
surplus revenue was the best which could be assigned for it.
This reservation must be adloweef to them, else they would be
voting resolutions before inquiry and the necessary information
to explain their nature. The increase of revenue he had always
anticipated as the natural consequence of the introduction of
the sound commercial principles which his Majesty's Govern-
ment had lately acted upon ; they had givers fairer play to the
industry of the people, hence followed more comfort, and as st
necessary consequence, an augmentation of the. national ree
venue. Ile should reserve his further observatiteat until the'
resolutions were printed.
Mr. SYKES praised the reduction of the 'iron and hennae
duties as favourable to the shipping interest, and thereby be-
neficial to the prosperity of the country generally.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER requested'
Honourable Gentlemen to bear in mind, that the resolutions-
could not be printed until after the report was brought up,. AU
he proposed to urge in the Committee this- night, were the
resolutions relating to wines, coffee, hemp,. and such part or
the Assessed Taxes as he had referred to ; this arrangement
would facilitate the progress of the necessary Bills respecting
these articles.
Mr. MAIIERLY would have preferred, if equally Wm'
nient, thut the whole of the subject should 'be kept together
for future discussion.

Mr. BRIGHT complained in the strongest terms of the com-
parative inattention afforded to the West Indian Interests., anet
the necessity of some further time for consideration, before the
Committee decided upon the Right Honourable Gentleman's
statement. Parliament had seriously interfered with the value.
of West Indian property and interests, without giving the
owners anything like a fair equivalent.—(Hear, hear !) BY
the proposed reduction of bounties upon sugar, the great re-
fining trade would be infallibly lost; and by the reduction of
the duty upon home-made spirits, rum would be removed at a.
still greater distance from the British market. It was last year
affected considerably by the introduction of Irish and Scotch
whisky, and some hopes were held out that in the present year
the West Indian interest would be better considered ; and
what was now proposed ? merely to reduce the rum duty 2s. s
gallon, while, at the same time, the reduction in home spirits
was to be five shillings a gallon. When they wanted to re-
press the smuggling trade, why i:ot begin upon tea and tobacco,.
the two great articles of notoriously contraband consumption ?
If they reduced the tax upon tobacco one half, the revenue
would not be diminished, but smuggling would, two-thirds of
its present extent. It was said that in the coffee reduction
150,0001. was conceded to the colonial interests. Ile admitt-.4
the importance of this reduction to the negro population, but
denied its being a proper equivalent for the injuries which
.had
been generally inflicted on the \Vest India trade.

I

Mr. WM. SMITH said, that he meant merely to put in his
claim for a future hearing on this subject, as the House was.na
at that moment properly prepared for the discussion.

- - -
Colonel DAVIS said, that the House would, to-rnorrovi
week, have an opportunity of considering the tobacco and
other duties, in the consideration of a motion of which he had
given notice. He was not yet without hopes that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would carry his admirable principles
farther into practical operation, and still farther diminish, tte
public taxation.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said that he merely rose to touch upon
one or two points. In the first place, he thought it would have
been better to have equalized the wine duties, than make them
in the proportion as 6 to 4 : and in the second, he was quite
sure the country would not be satisfied with his inadequate
reduction of the Assessed Taxes ; the effect of that upon win-
dows now proposed would be to induce people to deform their
small houses to bring the number within the right Hon. Gen-
tleman's plan ; and by restricting the circulation of air, to
impair the health of their families. The sinking fund on the
present plan was, he thought, quite rediculous. ,
Mr. JOHN S3IITH thought the sinking fund essential to
the maintenance of the national faith and honour. He thought
the West India interests had been exceedingly oppressed, and
that a reduction of the duties upon sugar would have ,a very
beneficial operation.
Mr. HART DAVIS complained strongly that the tobacco•
duties were not reduced ; they now amounted to 1,200 per cent.
upon the original value of the article ; lie had expected a re-
duction of one half at least of these duties. Notwithstanding
die very great export troni America, and extensive consumption
in Ireland, the revenue in this article was not improved.
Mr. Alderman TIIOIIPSON concurred in the disappoint-
ment expressed at not finding tobacco and brandy duties still
further reduced, for the better prevention of smuggling. He
was glad at the reduction of duties on hemp and iron : though
he did not anticipate so great a reduction in the duty of thy'
latter, yet he, who was largely interested in that trade, was not
afraid of the foreign competition.—(Hear, hear !)--He was
ready advocate of liberal commercial principles.--( Hear !)
Mr. HUME could not but feel some surprise at the increase
of the expence fbr the army, navy, and ordnance estimates.
_The country had been always told that they were in a con-
stant state of progression towards a peace establishment, and
now those three estimates were higher than they were during
the two preceding years. The reductions on some articles were
very desirable, but it was surprising that tobacco and brandy
had not been noticed. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
had begun to return to sounder principles of policy, and the
House ought not to allow him to stop short before all the pos-
sible good had been effected. Smuggling would never be put
down unless the duties on tobacco and 'brandy were reduced-
-The Chancellor of the Exchequer said that some articles on
which the duties were repealed last year had increased 12,
13, and 20 per cent. in consumption, but on malt and tobaccd
the increase was only three per cent. The reason was that the
duty on them exceeded what the articles would fairly bear If they were lessened 40 or 50 per cent. the increase in the
revenue arising from them would be greatly augmented. Let
the experiment be tried, and the advantage would be §OOll