The Sun.
London, England, 1836-04-16 00:00:00

"c.,''lll.9it 1,,0t1d he a great born to the Dissenters, it would
be of i'etY eti'viee to the members of the Church of
England. The preetit was most oppressive to the
Dissenters. and could not be too at)blished.
Sir J. CAMPBELL felt that the ithei+'e would be not
merely a benefit to the Dissenters, but would bc! YOVnd to be
a benefit to the members of the Church of I:rigVand.
ttyFytrt.t to registration at present, as selected to the
M?refierS'ef. Cnittrcb of England, it was exceedingly imper-
feet: there was rid regis4ttatfoo of deaths—they merely had a
registration' of burials: It was impossible, on this account, to
find c'tidiMee'of descent whlt any certainty beyond two genera-
tions, and tlie eorkequ'ence Was', that this uncertainty led to
great litigation and eper;.e. ft was of the greatest importance
tH the members of the Church ry4 Englitud, that there should
be a i;e-i!'_,,V.aT registration of deaths, bralisi ilnd marriages. lle
concurred fusty Ili' the suggestion offereJ by- Right Hon.
Baronet, of postponing discussion to a future period.
Sir R. PEEL said that if he C3t,id understand that the Bill
would place the members of the Churel;b: England in a worse
position than they were in at present, he woult? feel 'pound to
give it every opposition. He understood the prin,t 4o of the
Bill to be, to leave the existing registration unintcrferc with,
and to give it the fullest sanction and authority as evidence.
Mr. WILK S trusted that the measure would be so im-
proved as to he entitled to his decided support.
Mr. HAWES said if he understood what had fallen from
the Right Hon. Baronet and the Noble Lord, the Bill did not
irovide for a uniform system of registration, but the general
.egistrationwas to be confined to a general and uniform re-

gistration of births,
Sir J. CAMPBELL was sure that the lion. Gentleman
had not read the A laugh.) The Bill provided for a
uniform system of births, marriages, and deaths, and included
all classes of the community, and all sects.
Mr. HAVES expressed himself satilied with the expla-

nation,
After a few words from Mr. BAINES and Mr. EW A RT,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the intention of the Bill was
to provide for a national and uniform registration. In the
first place, of births and deaths, and next of baptisms and mor-
riages. With respect to baptisms and marriages, the Minis-
ters of the Church of England would keep their own registry,
as before, and that registration would be equally valid, as it
had always been. Baptisms and burials came distinctly under
the cognizance of the Ministers of the Church of England.
With respect to births, they would have a national registra-
tration, and a ssparate registration ; and with respect to
marriages by the Ministers of the Church of England, they
would have a national registration and a separate regis-
tration, the same as they had always had. But, besides
this, they would have a national registration of all marriages,
however celebrated; whether by the members of the Church
of England or any of the members of the Dissenting sects.
All these marriages would be recorded in one general na-
tional registry. With respect to the marriages celebrated by
the ministers of the Church of England, they would have their
own separate registration. He trusted that this Bill would
be found to fully answer all the purposes of a general regis-
tration, at the same time that it would not interfere with the
existing registration. One of the great advantages of a na-
tional system of registration would be, that facts which were
now in doubt would be clearly ascertained, and so far as births
and marriages were concerned, the clearest evidence would be
supplied as to descent and inheritance. There would be also
the great advantage to the Dissenters, that they could have all
these benefits without being compelled to assist at ceremonies
to which they had a conscientious objection.
Mr. G 0 UL BURN—If the Bill were to pass in its present
shape he would give it his utmost opposition. However, he
was satisfied to consider the Bill in Committee, and to endea-
vour to improve it as much as possible.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought it would be better to allow
the Bill to go into Committee, and take the discussion on the
third reading.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN asked the Noble Lord (Lord J. Rus-
sell) whether he would pledge himself to introduce a similar
Bill for Ireland ? If not, he would move an instruction to the
Committee that the Bill be extended to Ireland, in order to
take the sense of the House on the subject.
Lord J. RUSSELL would endeavour to consider the sub-
ject with a view, in a future session, of extending the principle
of the Bill to Ireland.
Sir R. INGLIS said that on the 26th of May the Noble
Lord opposite had stated that he understood that the Catholic
Clergy of Ireland were opposed to such a measure. Now, he
asked him, would he equally respect the opinions of the Mi-
nisters of the Church of England, and not press a measure in-
terfering with them, when it was satisfactorily ascertained that
their sense and opinions were against it ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was ready
to admit that if a system of registration was wanting here it
was more wanted in Ireland, and when they should be able to
ascertain in what manner they should proceed, and what ma-
chinery they should apply in Ireland, he would himself be
quite ready to give every assistance to the introduction of a
measure to be applied to Ireland.
After an observation from Mr. ROEBUCK,
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN expressed himself satisfied with the
promise that had been given.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Monday next.
MARRIAGES BILL.
On the Order of the Day for the second reading of this
Dui Denei read,
Mr. PO ULTER expressed a hope that the Noble Lord
would consent to strike out the fifteenth clause.
Mr. HUME was opposed to the suggestion, as he thought
it the most valuable clause in the Bill.
Mr. GO ULBU RN would, when the fitting occasion came,
be prepared to satisfy the House that this Bill interfered with
the conscientious scruples of the members of the Church of
England. He would, however, on the present occasion, con-
fine himself to the question whether the Bill now before the
House did not afford increased facilities to clandestine mar-
riages, and did not open a door in this respect to every man,
whether Dissenter or member of the Church of England, and
ox a point, too, in which the interests of families were most
seriously concerned. It was for the House to consider how
far protection against clandestine marriages was afforded by
this Bill. By the existing law of England there were certain
guards against clandestine marriages. In the first instance
there was the necessary publication of banns. First, there
was the necessity that these banns should be published three
times in the parish in which each of the parties must have
lived for a limited period. This publication of course took
place in the presence of many who must be acquainted with
the parties about to be married, and so far all the advantages
of the fullest publicity were obtained. The banns were a
publication of the intention of the parties to engage in mar-
riage, and in the rural parishes they afforded a certain secu-
rity against clandestine marriages, and in other parishes so
far a tolerable security against secret or improper marriages.
The next security afforded by the existing law was that it re-
quired that the marriage should be celebrated in the church
of the parish in the customary and recognised place for such
celebration. It was also required that all marriages should
be celebrated within the hours of eight and twelve o'clock, the
very time in which the public would be most likely to have
their attention awake, and when any clandestine marriage would
be the least likely to be celebrated. The next protection was,
that it was required that the marriage must be celebrated
within three months after the publication of the banns. It was
no small security that the marriage was required to be cele-
brated under these circumstances in the church of the parish
where the parties reside, and in the presence of the parochial
Clergyman, to whom the parties must be more or less known,
and who, being persons of education and respectability, if there
were any suspicion of a clandestine marriage, would interpose
to prevent it. But there was still more, that which he consi-
dered one of the greatest protections—that marriage was cele-
brated with all the solemnities of religion, and in the presence
of God, and under the most solemn sanctions.—( Hear.) By
the Bill before the House all these protections were withdrawn.
The parties were not bound to have banns published in any
instance. The marriage might take place not only in the
parish where the parties resided, but in any parish in the king-
dom which they chose to select—not in the church or recog-
nised building, but in any place where the parties might choose,
and where no person could anticipate that such a marriage
would be performed. He contended that this Bill opened the
door to clandestine marriages, not only to Dissenters, but to
every class of the community. After this Bill passed there
would be nothing to prevent any member of the Church of
England from being married in any place he chose, or by any
person he chose, or without the necessity of having the mar-
riage performed in any place of religious worship. His
first objection was that notice was not required to be served
upon the registrar of the particular district in which the
parties resided, so that two parties residing in Middlesex might
if they so chose, serve their notice in Yorkshire.—( Hear,
hear.) Again, there was no penalty inflicted by the Bill for a
false notice. Then, with regard to caveats, there was this
anomaly, that no person except a parent or guardian could
enter a caveat without subjecting himself to heavy damages.
So that if a man were to marry a second wife during the life-
time of the first, the first wife could not enter a caveat nor any
other person except a parent or guardian. Again, with re-
gard to the place where marriages might be celebrated by the
present Bill, a building which had once been licensed for the
purpose, no matter to what use it might thereafter be con-
verted, would still continue to enjoy the same privilege—
( Hear)—and, what was still more strange, the ceremony might
be performed by any person whatsoever. He would wish to
know whether the Bill intended to prohibit the publication
of banns?
Lord J. RUSSELL—No.
Mr. GOULB URN was glad it was not so intended; but
there was this to complain of, that, besides the publication of
the brnns, the members of the Church of England were
obliged also to give notice at the Registrar's office. Why,
in a measure purporting to be for the relief of Dissenters, in-
troduce a clause which imposed a double obligation on mem-
bers of the Church of England ?—( Hear.) Why compel
members of that church to pay twice for that ceremony ? Why,
greater were likely to ensue under this Bill than under the
present Marriage Act.—( Hear.)
Dr. LUS HINGTON was as desirous as any person to
avoid the evils of clandestine marriages ; but if it were at-
tempted to impose too great a restraint, the remedy would be
worse than the evil. He was ready, however, to strengthen
the safeguards against clandestine marriages ; and, contrasting
those proposed in the present Bill with those which at present
existed, he contended that the latter fell very far short. At
present the doors were widely open to fraudulent marriages ;
for though the letter of the statute was against them, what
did it avail if its spirit could be evaded ? Banns were at pre-
sent necessary ; but from the caseoftco the or onuclniecrkat,iotnheayndmeigmh-i:
veyance parties might with little trouble expense go to the
next parish, where, for half-a-crown
give in their names and get the banns published ; the marriage
would take place, and although it should be performed in the
parish of one of the parties, still, after having been made, the
law called it valid. Could that be said to be protection? Se-
vere restrictions bad been tried before, but they had so signally

----- ------. ..--- __________------- ----7 I
failed that the House was compelled not only to render Yam
all the marriages which had taken place under those restric-
tions, but even to deprive persons of vested rights which
would have arisen to them if those marriages had not beer*
validated. With regard to the restricrion supposed to be
posed by the license system, he would .anly say that any adult
person might procure one under a false flame. It ntlg, lit bed
said the affidavit aff„rded a protection, but experience snowe.
that 114,050 who wished to contract clandestine marria.es had
but little Tagard for the sanctity of an oath. . It was 'obvious,
then, that the sxisting law was insufficient for the purpose forirs
vvhich it was intended. In the proposed measure tlie ivr,elia.
of the unions would his able to select persons fit for the 'woes
of registrar amongst the reseeetablc portions of the humbles
classes, in whom as much reliance conld be placed for strictness
and integrity as in any Member of that House. Under the re
sent system the Clergymen of the Church of England sornetim `es
objected to perform the ceremony; but those. objections wet o
very few, and on an average they wefe but as one in the,
even
when the parties were. under age. indeed, when the banns
were published they did not deem it ri;.,,lit to refuse except in
someL rare and extraordinary case. With' rngard to checking
tlandestine marriages, no step could be takeu either under the
?resent law or the proposed meaasure unless the parties in-
rested in preventing them were aware they were likely to
take place. If shut out from one county, those intending to
or per-
enter into ;Item would resort to another and another,
haps at last rest-Pt to another country.
Sir R. INGLI.3 had a great objection to having"
looked upon in any O'er light than as a religious obligation.
lie also objected to the !lin because it was not framed excf,h.ii
sively in reference to Dis,-eaters. He contended that a I°'
could be framed for the relief of Dissenters without affezting.
at all the interests of those who adhered to the Church of
bc pro-
England, as far as regarded whom she present might
nouncel a Bill of pains and 1 •
pena ties. to be
The 8.11 t was then read a second film, and ordered
committed on Monday next.
Sir R. INGLIS said it would be a great convenience
,t 1
many Hon. Members if the Noble Lord would state when Wu.
diseuision would really be taken. Marriage
• e
Lord J. RUSSELL said he would give a week's notice

measure
rurße R.
for
tPEELhat
relief
lief o
fwtaismp
conscientiouserrectlyready
st,!,rcueinopnairsecna:teir.dstcpbtesirinoesi
senters which should at the same time give the
and provide against that which the Hon. and L
ber had justly described as one of the greatest evOs to
it w
society was subject, namely, clandestine marriages.---,( order
here suggested that the Right Hon. Baronet net beggedto
p' ii e
don.
in bringing the
that the frward now.) He
He understood discussion was to be
would bring forward the question in committee.
BISHOPRIC OF DURHAM. isbop,..ie
The Order of the Day for the second reading of the 13
v •
of Durham Bill having been read, ours°
Sir R. PEEL inquired whether the Bill indicatedthe uni.,
which Government meant to pursue with relation to the
versity of Durham. with
Lord J. RUSSELL said the Bill left the questi°n De•
taken non.
regard to the University of Durham entirely an °Pt cat to
The Bishop would take the Bishopric of Durban) stwJeaa.
certain restrictions and regulations which the Bill iints.,,ty'
Sir R. PEEL expressed his earnest hope that his La
the let
Government would fulfil the munificent intentions of
Bishop of Durham with regard to this University. gijo aini..
t
Mr. H. L AMBTON (as we understood) protested
the regulations established for the government of the in iy a
arta
_rot
versity of Durham as narrow and bigotted. It was
matter of considerable importance that there should be a: the
University for the North of England. But whY be ilO
Dissentors of the North to be excluded from the "vi 111
which it conferred? He called on the Noble Lord beijinten'''
as the leader of' his party, and as one who had e'er use liV
enters of
with an attentive ear to the grievances of Dissenters,
best efforts to throw open this University to the piss°
the North of England. , to Was 1
Mr. A. TREVOR said the University of Derus-,,,d an
splendid monument of the munificence of the depar.,..b boi
ever lamented prelate. It was an institution fourwleta lanes'
out of the revenues of Ole Established Church, free f tbat
tion of those who would be brought up to the ministY ° open
Church, and he saw no reason which it should be thrown open
those who dissented from she faith which was there 15 0,
cated, and did not believe in ,the doctrines which it 'low
tended to promote.—( Hear.) Serious objections weref ;ese
tamed in the county of Durham ,+0 the Bill. Many °lce°
excellent establishments which owed much to them 11,hi
of preceding Bishops would be materially injured by lt' bs'
Lord J. RUSSELL only rose in e onsequence of Wlll./.4it clia
been said in reference to Earl Grey. That Noble Le"-aerth
certainly approve of a University being esoblished in then °
of England, but he did not think it wise to give 010 als°
salary to those who undertook the professorsNiPs, rniveri,A
thought that though all the emoluments of the ''''a sho'
were confined to the Church, all its honours and deJ„,„.OO.:A
be equally open to persons of all religious pers'7,lanisP"
(Hear, hear.) On this point the late Bishop of Dar
sae
Grey differed. aid, i"
Sir R. INGLIS said this University was establis 001
years ago, out of the funds of the late Bishop of Percutch
of the revenue of the Church for the promotion of the t'uni.
Establishment, and it would be as unjust to divert th,attinierr
versity to other objects than those contemplated dolee Obo bad
as it would be to divest the funds of any Noble r vi The
invested them in any foundation of any kind whatever' The
founder had alway a right to limit the appropriatin dotieS
Bill proposed to separate the spiritual from the tenWerta alai
of the Bishop of Durham, and consequently to dePri,' ape.
Prelate of much of the dignity which now attached to b''
Against this he begged leave to enter his protest. fro it
Mr. PEASE, objected to this Bill, that it took awsYrtoioo
population much in need of religious and moral bl,attinsa"
those revenues which could not be better applied, nor t.'°olo they
ner more consistent with the intentions of those by W".,aiher of,
were originally bestowed, than in educating a vast 'I; weatal
those within the county of Durham, whose moral e°
culture had been much ,neglected. he 011 was
a:
After a few words fro:u Mr. ROEBUCK, t... Monv
read a second time, and ordered to be committed 01l
next.
The Mutiny Bill and the Marine Mutiny Bill were 90011/
read a third time and passed. Lio
SLAVERY ABOLITION (JAMAICA) Pig 'll be°
Mr. GLADSTONE said that in relation to this - I gee?(l
believe that a case had been fairly ina,de out. The ill rls
not
would say, that the Assembly
tmheoaunghtot
t, sanction tiifonh
et hwe conducterea m e mohf
erGoo.fvetrhnemAengste°lnf bl
.1. of Sgt
maica he to boo
the act of the Council. He admitted Lor.l Slig°
honest, active functionary, and he re retted thit be,shr° If ith:
committed
iut himselfiuterfere againstvvitit thethe Assemblylegislative g
ofooJnaralc-• the P-.
semhly of Jamaica he would su oil it. late
duet °f ,
ee,:
better to
G. GR E Y said the Billpvijvas founded
lativeSi enactment for the abolition of slavery." till': th°tlglP A
tiolium3isitl:he Bill without any fir t ,st
againstiiie Billinte interference.
ce
wrislleoaAualvdaAntoiLtirdoEhtNjielcecst^onntihi's:'clßlidl, Plittesnrt°o:l4ll
thatne;
Mr. BUCKINGHAM begged to ask if it were tr-ssuiella
so far from there having been any necessity for were
b°,,ear
tle new fleet about to be launched ; and if so
a 1 sufficient number of men had volunteered to etilist,: gokfi
had this 10-
in consequence of the late
tart' supply been produced •
enactments. Sec
Mr. G. WOOD said it was all true—men nelerke,
known to enlist so voluntarily in the navy as the,' w. were
01d 17:
to have done within the last fortnight, and tbis -19 bl the
latemainly traced to the inducements held out to then~ or;
commissioned,
regulations. Within the last fortnight cightiStiind 1,1°;0
they
for which 4,500 men were requlreut 050 a
only wanted 1,300 men. Formerly fishermen fiocitae,.
rtounaway at the sight of a man-of-war ; but now tbehludre id
the naval station for enlistment voluntarily
i the /1111
There was never known such a disposition to 3°.°
service as at present.—( Hear, hear.) 000'
NAVY ESTIMATES.
The House then went into Committee on the n,a/eYojcpsiofetli°
118,0001. for salaries for officers for ti
lenavy , to.
dock-yards was agreed to.
Agreed
2, 4,3251., for the workmen in the dock-yards.---'''
Thefhe next vote was 471,491/. for naval stores. , ellt9
vote on this item was then put and cars,
rover°
6 097r6:e29,
po22aollillrlis/ ..ff—oofror for new
aidisrNact-nooe.r
miscellaneous
us s inse r
vi thec sd.
____o c kAy:
ret: P , ,
and:
91590,2,058691./.foforrecolniavici of naval stores. 10.
Sout,_"e .attelt"o4
the Neva convict vessels, and wished to
Mr. GOULBUR:N begged leave to call to
..,.e f A p,
the House to the late melancholy loss of the Geo:, lion, „so
gvieng.ofctortainviscptosrttos.---jAv stores.
-Afire
0.
case f
i‘t liiore.fs
the
lFoosGscoeespo,
rgreefip whichllii.e.dso thatu occurred
intoae:io re.
cretaryo of the Navy if inquiries had been made
been a source of considerable theregr.et in the Jilt/Ate/It efe.
which he was interested, and their best attention (1, 0 -boo
stowed to discover the true cause and proper NO the 00, to
calamities. The system
h system t
seof takin up- vessels for to leatio,
eartie
ltocsrsre termination
lir a° eftl nitAe:rcitit:e°o;bill,
toether, oyaglisa
service had, previous to 1833, been'found in prneteerabl:e 0 of
e
increasedum iFmeo raf
ed safetyde
shipwreck
inspection.
hn ti 1 i 1 nv
adr
en
c
yrcrol
ict nr
ots p
stE
vi
te
iit
cs the ossi 1 t the
Of
cared[ eo
t 1 f a
i 1
very dangerous results, but since that time co
thens " adoPt'° sil
I vantages.. and
,vaea.tdnd biteievaas found tl.at no part of their •
he le° fth 0
Nacibrno:srlitsieimilrtsiipeorsntot
attributed to any neglect
Ind '
the time
carefully
examinedof
o r i n tell:etfi' e fitting out, as theYfit Pr third
broaaurd(hiyveureigiittou)
fives service
in every respect, The loss of the Ger°9l.ool ° the
traced, after a patient investigation, to the %ode, i'..ito.
captain
,frT ocos: 496.1.11.'
aunpdrepaired,l attelan-frtotoinf:c itisPviecetr(s°ti:
convicts
to reach his destination by the shortest Pa the see t'
He thereforeiet"n suffering .trait not he
dhe fst to
rous part of the coast,
with which, it appeare , __,. ;lie . in
ficientl acquainted to preserve his vessel frow_., 001
_gbe-
thereb Y
y exposed her to Tlvessel, however, r_.o yes', re,
The
,_. liv _op
unsound state • had
fore this ,as been asserted by son u_ a thory -
bi.
. voyage to Sydney, she had undergonu
resin .
pair, and w• through al
floss ,in
as nearly as good as new
Mr. A. CHAPI • -*a from Or .eideP opt
i lAN could not refr-i
nate at' tort 0
conviction
that the chief cause of the untortu i. inco 0 fi
the •
convict service arose from the emploYrnentotoodr,
d
f an
persons as commanders, whose deficiency °f " 1.11. for
conspicuous.morfle ones f
Mr. G. F. YOUNG said that thought '-' do 0
the Neva were old vessels, lvanbe goo
st'ste For
they happene the
~ ,
't tie. 6°,
the
sO C the 'en
takinc, ,up and inspecting vessels that nag up bY 01
instance, the Anne was inspected when taken,.
the eon
vernment inspectors as tit tor the service 'l3u‘