The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-03 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 2.
SUPPLY.
(Continued from our Third Edition of last night.)
Mr. GREENE said, it was the earnest desire of the
Commissioners to reduce the expense as much as possible.
Last year 120,000/. was voted, but a considerable pro-
portion of that sum did not come under the control of
the Commissioners, owing to the time at which they had
been appointed. There were contracts which could not
now be avoided, but, upon the whole, he hoped that the
report which they should have to present would prove
satisfactory. The expenditure on the building at pre-
sent was about 4,0001. a month, and there was a sum of
about 8,0001. now due to the contractors, which ought to
be paid forthwith.
Mr. SPOONER thought the whole estimated cost
ought at once to be raised by Exchequer-bills, and the
works completed without delay. Such a course would
be the only true economy.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY feared that more than a mil•
lion remained to be spent, and that the work would not
be completed in less than two years.
Mr. GREENE said that no additional expenditure
would be incurred without the consent of the House.
Sir D. L. EVANS stated that a general impression
prevailed that the money intended for the useful por-
tions of the building had been too largely applied to the
ornamental.

Mr. GHEENE repeated that full information aliould
be given to the /louse.
Mr. 0613ORNE said the ventilation squabble was not
yet o'er.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, said he
should not meddle with that, but he was surprised to
find the Hon. Gentleman opposite recomm-nding the
issue of Exchequer-bills. With respect to the army.
the navy, and the other great departments, he had lecTt
the expenditure of the year as much as possible within
the income, and he should not willingly depart from that
rule in the case of the new buildings. There should be
the fullest information on the subject given to the Howe,
but it was to be remembered that there existed certain
contracts which could not be broken. Those contracts
must be adhered to, but the Government did not intend
to enter into any new contracts.
Captain BOLDER() wished to take this opportunity
of stating that he had, for the last three weeks, been
sitting upon a Committee in one of the new Committee-
rooms, and that they had been so much annoyed b 3
smoke that it had been necessary to have all the win-
dows open and to sit with their great-coats on—(A
laugh)—and the consequence was that he had caught a
very severe cold. This nuisance had, however, been in
some degree abated; but the ventilation of the Com-
mittee-rooms was most defective, and must produce at:
injurious effect on the health of all persons who were
compelled to attend in them. Tho room where the
Committee of which he was a member sat was crowded
during the day, and on retiring from it, and returning
after an absence of five minutes, the 'odour was most
offensive—worse than that of bilge water.
Mr. GREENE said that the ventillation of the Com
raittce-rooms, as well as of both Houses of Parliament,
was originally intrusted to Dr. Reed, but by a resolu-
tion adopted by the Committee some time since it was
taken out of his hands and committed to Mr. Barry,
who had not yet had an opportunity of completing his
arrangements. He (Mr. Greene) had no doubt, how-
ever, that a great improvement would be effected in the
warming and ventilation of the rooms.

Mr. EWART stated that in the room in which the
Committee on the Insolvent Members' Bill sat it was im-
possible at one end of the room to hear anything that
was said at the other end.

Mr. GREENE had been informed that the best mode
of preventing reverberation was to paper the walls with
floss paper, but the llon. Gentleman might rely upon it
that endeavours would be made to remedy the defect to
which he had alluded.

The vote was agreed to, as was also a vote of 10,0004
towards defraying law charges.
On a vote being proposed of 50,0001. towards defray-
in the charge for consular establishments abroad,
Mr. HUME suggested that a considerable reduction
might be effected in this department of the public ex-
penditure. It was formerly the custom, when a Mi-
nister was sent to a foreign court, that a :Minister of
equal rank, and generally with the same allowances,
should be accredited to the British Court; but while we
had Ministers at some foreign Courts who received the
fall allowances, their representatives in this country had
only third or fourth•rate salaries.

Lord J. RUSSELL :observed that, in consequence of
the changes which were at present occurring on the con-
tinent, it was, impossible to determine what alterations
could be made in our consular arrangements.
The vote was agreed to, as was also a vote of 50,0001.
towards the charge for civil contingencies ; and the
House then resumed.

RATE IN AID (IRELAND) BILL.
The order of the day for the adjourned debate on the
second reading of this Bill having been read,
Mr. BRIGHT said that, as a member of the Com-
mittee appointed by that House to inquire into the
working of. the Irish poor-law, he had voted in Com-
mittee for the resolution in favour of the rate in aid; he
had also voted with the majority by whom that proposi-
tion had been supported in that House; and he was pre-
pared to justify those votes. This appeared to him to
be a question of life or money. It was evident from
the testimony of witnesses examined before the Com-
mittee, from the evidence of persons in all parts of Ire-
land, and from the statements in the public papers,
that unless funds were :provided from some source to
relieve the distressed unions in Ireland, tens of thousands
of their fellow-countrymen in that part of the United
Kingdom must perish. He was not prepared to justify
a rate in aid merely on the ground of its necessity, be-
cause it might be justly contended that the same amount
of money might be raised by same other mode ; but he
would justify the restricting of this rate to Ireland on
the ground that during the last three years the rest of
the United Kingdom had paid a rate in aid for Ireland
to a greater amount than the rateable property of Ire-
land was now called upon to contribute. Within the
last two or three years 8,000,0001. or 10,000,0001. had
been given to Ireland from the revenues of the United
Kingdom ; a very large private subscription had been
entered into, the British Association having alone
expended 600,000/. ; and by far the larger proportion
of this amount (although Irishmen had supplied some
portion of the funds) was contributed by the tax-paying
classes of Great Britain, in addition to the heavy
local taxes which had been thrown upon them for the
support of Irish pauper immigrants into this country. In the
city parish of Glasgow the poor-rates lastyear amounted
to 70,0001., and it was estimated that two-thirds of this
amount were required for the support of Irish paupers,
many of whom had been brought over as deck passengers
by steamers from the Irish ports. In Manchester, the
amount required in 1848, for the relief of the settled
poor, including those Irish paupers who had lived in the
borough long enough to obtain a settlement, was 37,847/.;
the amount for unsettled English casual poor was
18,6991, and for unsettled Irish casual poor, 28,0071. It
was calculated that this expenditure of 28,0001. was
equal to a rate of loid. in the pound on the whole rate
able property in Manchester; but if they took only that
portion of the property which paid the poor-rate, exclud-
ing the property on which that rate was remitted,
the rate for the support of Irish casual poor would
be not less than from ls. 3d. to Is. 6d. in the pound.
—(Hear, hear.) Last year, the cost of maintaining
the Irish casual poor brought a burden of more than
2s. Id. per head upon the whole population of that great
community; and it must be remembered that Manches-
ter was, at the time, suffering from great depression of
trade, caused by the high price of cotton, the panic of
1847, and the political convulsions on the continent of
Europe. To show the great increase of the amount re-
quired in Manchester for the relief of the Irish casual
poor, ho might state that in 1845 it was 3,4001.; in 1846,
3,2001.; in 1847, 6,5001.; and 1848, 28,007/. Now, the
people of Manchester had not made clamorous com-
plaints against this heavy charge; but they did wish
Hon. Gentlemen opposite to see that they—in common
with other large towns, by whom the same burden had
to a greater or less extent been borne—had already
paid their share of the rate in aid for Ireland over and
over again; and they did think that, under these cir-
cumstances, it became the property of Ireland to find,
for a temporary period, the comparatively small sum
which the Government proposed to levy upon that
country.--(Hear.) The Hon. Member for Londonderry
(Captain Bateson) had complained on Friday night of
the tyrannical conduct of those who called upon the op-
pressed proprietors of Ulster to pay this rate; but he
(Mr. Bright) found that the value of the rateable pro-
perty of Ulster was about 3,000,0001., and the sum that
county would be called upon to contribute to the rate in
aid would be about 82,0001. a year. For his own part,
had he been an Ulster proprietor, he would not have
raised his voice against this proposition, for the Ulster
proprietors were only called upon to do what had been
already done by others.—(Hear, hear.) It had been
said that Mr. Twisleton had resigned his office of Poor-
law Commissioner rather than carry out this rate in aid.
Now, the reason assigned by Mr. Twisleton to the com-
mittee for his resignation was not that the system could
not be worked, but that Ulster was Ulster—that it
was much more Ulster than Ireland—that Ulster did
not wish to be put together with Munster, Connaught,
and Leinster; but that it wished to be consi-
dered a portion of Great Britain rather than
a portion of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that
if, by this Bill, they succeeded in making Ulster really a
portion of Ireland, a very happy result would be effected.
The Members of that House, and her Majesty's Ministers
had been charged with misgoverning Ireland, but he
would remind lion. Gentlemen who made this charge
that the course taken by Parliament with regard to Ire-
land for the last 100 years had been almost universally
in accordance with the wishes of the landed proprietors
of that country. The landed proprietors of Ireland, and
especially of the north of Ireland, had had great power
in that House, and their advice had been too frequently
acted upon by the Government- He considered that the
political course taken by the people of Ulster had been
most fatal to the interests of Ireland; they had bought
Protestant ascendancy, and the price they had paid
for it had been the degradation and ruin of their
country.—(Hear.) He did not consider that it would be
advisable to substitute an income-tax for the rate in aid.
There were many Noble Lords and others residing in
this country who already paid income-tax upon their
Irish property, so that if the income-tax were applied to
Ireland, no extra burden would be thrown upon such
persons. In this case, as in others, whatever proposition
was made.was sure to be the plan that was disliked; and
he had no doubt if the Government had proposed an in-
come-tax for Ireland it would have excited quite as
much hostility as the rate in aid.—(llear.) The conclu-
sion to which he (Mr. Bright) came was either that the
malady of Ireland was incurable, or that there was a
lamentable-lark of statesmanship in that House. Com-
prehensive 'schemes had been ridiculed, and deservedly
in some respects, for they always came from the opposite
(the Opposition) side of the table. The Noble Lord (Lord
J. Russell) when ho was in opposition, had suggested com-
prehensive schemes, and he (Mr. Bright) had wished to see
that Noble Lord in office that he might have an opportunity
Of proposing ',those schemes. He supposed, however,
that the Noble Lord now found insuperable difficulties
in the way of doing so. The Right Hon. Baronet op-
posite (Sir Robert Peel) had proposed another scheme
somewhat vaguely, but if the ,Right Hon. Gentleman
could put it in shape and work it out for the regenera-
tion of Ireland, he (Mr. Bright) believed the universal
feeling of the House would be, that he should cross to
the Ministerial side and try his hand. He (Mr. Bright)
had great doubt whether the Noble Lord now at the
head of the Government would object to change places
any Member of that House who would take in
handlth and really settle the Irish question.—(Hear,
near, from Lord John Russell, and a laugh.) The re-
medies for Ireland had hitherto been ,force and alms.
They had had 50 000 armed men in Ireland to keep the
peace, while on the other han 1 large votes of money
poets hadsai d
had been ma tokeep the people alive. One of our
de
" The civil power may snore at ease,
While soldiers fight to keep the peace."
And he suspected that Governments had ben far too
much disposed to rely upon the they could main-
tain in Ireland by the means at their disposal by
that House, instead of grapplingliceourageously with the
real difficulties of the question. suspected that the
Noble Lord at the head of the ?overnment did not con-
template any policy of that kind, or he would have stated
it to the House. He (Mr. Bright) considered it a gross
delusion to suppose that they could regenerat Ireland
by a poor-law or by a rate in aid. A poor-late
added
pauperism, because it was constantly inViting to idlenests!

it dragged down those who paid rates, and demoralized
those who received them. In order to apely a remedy to
Ireland, they should know what was the matter with that
country. He might say, as a general proposition, that
in Ireland nobody worked.—(s', laugh.) lie dd not
mean that many persons might not be industriously fol-
lowing their occupations, but there was a general—an
almost universal—absence of labour; there was a want
of employment and wages. He mat some time since
with an Irishman working as a navigator, and he asked
him how it was that his countrymen did nut work in
their own country as they did in this? His reply was,
" Give us 2s. Bd. a day, and you'll see whether we would
work."—(Hear, hear.) This was the great evil; there
was in Ireland a lamentable want of employment, and
consequently an extensive forced idlenesss. He might
mention to the House a fact which had come under his
observation, as showing the general poverty of Ireland.
He found that the legacy duty paid upon personal pro
perty in Great!, Britain in 1844 was upwards of
44,000,0001. The sum paid in Ireland in 1845 was only
2,140,0001. So that, although the population of Ireland
was nearly half that of Great Britain, it paid only one-
twentieth the amount of legacy duty. Ile found, also,
that although Ireland possessed a population three
times greater than that of Scotland, the legacy duty
paid by Ireland in 1844 was little more than two-
thirds the amount paid by Scotland. The re ports of
the inspectors to which the Right Hon. Member fur
Tamworth had referred gave a lamentable picture of
the condition of Ireland. That unfortunate country
was in a state of ruin and disorganization which it was
almost impossible to describe. Ireland possessed capitaleo
a,considerable but still to a deficient extent ; but the
land was held under circumstances which made
it impossible that labour should be applied to it, and
that productiveness should result. The raw material of
the existence of the people was tied up. The legal en-
actments with regard to land made it a practical mono-
poly, which crushed not only the public, but also the
landowners, for whose especial benefit that menopely
was supposed to exist.—(Hear, hear.) Why, he would
ask, should land be tied up more than any other raw
material ? They had a political system based on terri-
torial influences, and therefore the House feared to
touch the question of land, because it was apprehensive
of interfering with political considerations. He did not
see why political considerations should intervene in
dealing with questions connected with land more than
in dealing with questions connected with cotton, and he
believed that nothing was more prejudicing England
as well as Ireland than the absurd and monstrous
system under which landed property in both
countries was held. One difficulty in dealing
with land was that arising out of defective titles, which
was not easy to be got over so long as the present
system of entails was maintained. However, it was
a difficulty which the House might overcome, and
to which its early attention ought to be turned. He
would next advert to the question of settlements. He
was not about to say that settlements should be pre-
vented by law, and that a man should not be able to
make special provision for various members of his family
but there was in the system of strict settlement bound up
under the system of entail that which was productive of
immense evil to land and of discord and litigation in
families. The practice brought about a constant acces-
sion of incumbrances of one kind or another, until the
largest property, together with the family interests, be-
came bankrupt under a load from which they could not
escape. Irish gentlemen were suffering also from ano-
ther cause. They had been peculiarly extravagant. It
was said that they kept more horses and dogs than were
usually kept by persons of the same means in England.
how, he had no objection to their spending money as
they pleased, but if they did spend it they could not
expect to have it too; and they could not expect
that Parliament was always to step in and relieve
them from difficulties.—(Hear, hear.) If the young
gentlemen in Ireland, instead of remaining in the unen
viable state of waiting for a commission, were to get rid
of a little of the pride of family and of ancestry and ap-
ply themselves to business or some honest occupation, in
which they would have an opportunity of raising them-
selves by their talents, it would be much better for the
country, and their positions would be less humiliating
than at present. Another evil in Ireland arose out of the
great number of persons having only a life interest in
the property which they held. They could not sell the
property, and they had no motive to improve the value
of the land, as any expenditure for that purpose might
only be remunerative after their interest had expired.
Thus the raw material was bound up and labour left un-
employed; and the result was that widely prevailing
poverty now complained of. As population and pauper-
ism inc: e se 1, the landlords, through the means of evict-
rnents and ejectments endeavoured, as by a convulsive
effort, to rid themselves of the evils by which they were
surrounded; and hence arose a social war, and that inse-
curity to life and property which had so extensively pre-
vailed. What was the remedy for this state of things?
The Noble Lord at the head of the Government pro-
posed no plan, and neither had he nor any
other Member of the Administration made any
speech in the course of the session from which any en-
larged scheme of policy might be hoped for in the pre-
sent session, or early next session. He thought the
Noble Lord had not acted wisely in not paying more im-
mediate attention to the question as to what should be
done in future for the population of Ireland. The Right
Hon. Member for Tamworth had proposed a plan, which
he sums time before hinted at, to the surprise of every-
body, and to the delight of not a few. On Friday last
the Right Hon. Baronet explained his plan with some-
what more distinctness, but he (Mr. Bright) doubted
whether it was in that state that it could be laid before
the House in that detailed shape requisite previous to its
adoption. He admired the end which the Right Hon.
Baronet said he had in view, and some portion of the
means by which he would carry it out, but lie confessed
with reluctance that it appeared to his mind at present
in an impracticable form. He only trusted that Irish-
men would not suppose that everything was to be set
right in their country by a commission, or they would
be clinging more than ever to a remnant of property
in bankrupt estates, and feel greater hesitation
to take steps in the direction in which the Right
Hon. Baronet wished them to proceed. The
Right Hon. Baronet said he did not desire the
transfer of property to take place by individual barter, or
that the matter should proceed in its natural course, by
which land should become unnaturally cheap. Now, he
should like to know whether a man would go to Ireland
to buy land unless the cheapness compensated for all the
other disadvantages to be met with there? There could
be no redemption for Ireland by a transfer of land unless
by land taking its natural course, and becoming so cheap
that capitalists in England, Scotland, and Ireland would
seize it with all its disadvantages.—(lronical cries of
" Hear.") By seizing it he meant that they would
seize with avidity in that case; as in others, a favour-
able opportunity of investing their capital. He believed
that much Irish capital would go to the south and west
of Ireland to be invested in land if the measures which
were proposed, and the ends which the Right Hon.
Baronet had in view, were facilitated by that House.—
The Hon. Member here alluded to the distressed state
of Stockport in 1842, observing that property in that place
was then depreciated to a lamentable extent, and that
many thousands of persons left the town. About half the
manufacturers failed, and property changed hands, pass-
ing into the possession of persons of more substantial
means. This transfer of property was no doubt a painful
process, but it must be submitted to under such circum-
stances; and he thought that in the present state of Ire-
land it was the duty of the House not to interfere with
the ordinary and natural course of things. What he
wanted was, that Parliament should remove every ob-
stacle to the free sale of land ; and therein lay the only
security to be had for the restoration to prosperity of
the present distressed districts in Ireland. The question
of a Parliamentary title was most important, but he had
been informed by a legal authority that the difficulty
therein arose from entails to persons beyond those now
living. Another matter requiring alteration related to
intestate estates. He did not want a change of the law of
primogeniture, so that there should be a subdivision of
property here, as in France. It a man chose to act ab-
surdly, and leave all his property to one child out of
many, he would not interfere to prevent him by law;
but, where a man died without making a will, it was the
duty of Parliament to enact that the property left should
be divided equally among the heirs.—(Hear.) If the system
of leaving the property to the eldest sou were followed
out among the middle classes, and in regard to personal
property, it would lead to speedy confusion.— (Hear.)
Although the alteration of the law which he (Mr.
Bright) desired to see would not in itself destroy the
practice, Parliament would cease to give its sanction to
it, and gradually the owners of property would form a
more just appreciation of their duty as testators.—
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the owners of life in-
terests, they ought to have power to grant leases, not at
low rents in consideration of great fines, bat upon such
terms as would not defraud their successors; and they
should be allowed to charge the estate with sums ex-
pended in really beneficial improvements.—(Hear, hear.)
With respect to a registry of deeds, we had the Ordnance
survey already, and it had been estimated that the ne-
cessary survey for a perfect registry would cost but about
9d. an acre, and to engrave the plat's could be no great
addition to that cost; while, besides the advantage to
the public, it was considered, and had been so stated
might
rdidglihittnoe
btehyee
years'
ervada:luuceepdnorfnfhtohares
e.lsaonradTehbeyy
by Mr. Senior, he believed, that a registry would
tn,much as eight
panddutiiens, too,fant
as
earstsa
every facility given for letting land got from insol-
vent hands into those that might use it profitably. Then
as to the waste lands of Ireland, the Government might
take them at a valuation and divide them into moderate
of
estathe United tes, which would tempt
(
purchasersfrom various parts
Kingdom.—liear, ear.) These appeared
to be the only means of attracting capital tolreland.
How could the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) expect to
do that by fixing a maximum rate? Why, there was a
time when there was no rate, and that did not attract
capital.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir
R. Peel) spoke about emigration. His remarks on vo-
luntary emigration seemed rather unwise; things that
were done voluntarily were not always done well, neither
were things that were done by the Government.—(Hear,
hear.) But what was the relation of population to the i
land of Ireland? In the reports on the tablet was
stated with regard to Clifdeu, thut the resources of the
union, if made available, would be amply sufficient for
the support of its population.—(Heat hear.) Mr. Ha-
milton said the same of Donegal and Glenties, if culti-
vated according to the average of English counties; and
Mr. Twisleton considered that the land of Ireland would
maintain twice its present population.—(Hear, hear.) It
cost a good deal to send a family to Australia or Canada;
why not employ the money at home?—(Hear, hear.)
Let it not be said that be (Mr. Bright) was proposing
schemes which would be a great interterence with the
rights of property. There could not be a greater inter-
ference with the true rights of property than the laws
now regulating real estate; and in the districts to which
the Right Hon. Baronet referred the property in labour
of 4,000,000 of people was almost totally destroyed.
But let the landlords of Ireland say whether the state in
which they 114c1 been living was not worse than Anything

- let it be said that he
he proposes?—(Haar, hoer.) IN ea '-arial influence.
would injure aristocratical and ter.i.- 1 What
What were these worth now?—(Hear, hca,., net
was Ireland itself worth ?—(Hear, hear.) Was re
to the whole world the symbol and token of our dis
grace—(Hear, hear)—and to an overtaxed people the
source of amazing expense?—(Hear, hear.) Or was it
said that we should weaken the union? Why, there had
been no honest attenept yet to make a union with Ire-
lard; we had bad a union with Ulster, but never with the
whole of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Surely, if ever there
was a great opportunity for a statesman, it was the pre-
sent.—(Loud cheers.) This was undoubtedly " the
hour" and we wanted "the man."—(llcar, hear.) The
Noble Lord at the head of the Government had done
many things for bis country, and had shown upon some
occasions as much courage as in the state of public
opinion it was necessary for a statesman to show ; but
on this Irish gen stion he seemed to shrink from fairly
meeting the ditliculty.—(Hear, hear.) Yet the charac-
ter of his' Government was at stake; ho could not in his
position—be he as well intentioned as he might—defend
himself to his country, to the world, to posterity, if
he remained at the head of this Imperi4l Le-
gislature and still was unable or un illing to
bring forward measures for the recovery of
Ireland.—(lltar, hear.) The Noble Lard at the head
of the Administration of affairs in Ireland, too, must re-
collect, that it was nut the highest effort of statesman-
ship to keep the peace in a country where very few
men were anxious to go to war, and when he had 50,000
armed men, and the whole power of this kingdom to
back him—(Hear, hear)—if that distinguished nobleman
intended to be known as a statesman with regard to his
rule in Ireland, he must be prepared with measures of a
much more practical and directly operative character
than any he had yet initiated.—(Hear, hear.) Let that
great subscription be remembered which was raised
three years ago for Ireland, when there came funds from
the uttermost parts of the earth—from the Pope and
the Grand Signior, from Red Indians in North America,
and from slaves in Carolina; what could we say to all
those contributors, who must be anxious to know whe-
ther anything had been done to prevent the recurrence
of such a calamity ?—(Hear.) We must acknowledge to
them that our boasted constitution utterly failed to
grapple with this question. Talk not of our country hav-
ing had peace while so many thrones in Europe bad been
overturned; tell up all the lives lost by the convulsions
of the past year in Europe, the cessation of trade, the
ruin of industry, the breaking of hopes and of hearts,
and it could not be compared for an instant with the
agonies that had been endured by our own population
under our glorious constitution."—(Hear, hear.) Let
us beware of laying the calamity at the door of " Pro-
vidence." The promises of God were not withdrawn;
there was still sunshine and shower, seed time and bar
vest; the affluent bosom of the earth yet offered suste-
nance for man. But man must do his part.—(Hear.)
We must do ours.—(Hear, hear.) We must abandon
the errors and the crimes of our past legislation. We
must free the land—(Hear, hear)—and we should find
that it was upon industry, hopeful and remunerative,
free and inviolate, that we must build, as on a sure
foundation, a permanent edifice of union and peace.—
(Much cheering.)
The Marques of GRANBY concurred in much of
what had been advanced in the very able speech to
which the House had just been listening. (Hear, hear.)
The Government had neither come forward with a great
and consuehensive scheme upon their own responsi-
bility, nor waited for the report of the committee, but
had proposed a temporary palliative, whose effects,
it might be feared, would be lasting.—(Hear.)
The cases of England and Ireland were not at all simi-
lar, as had been alleged. If the rate in-aid were levied
in England it would be raised on all property; but such
was not the case in Ireland. Another case was, that in
England the arrears of poor-rate were merely leviable
upon a tenant for the time of his occupancy, whereas in
Ireland the tenant was liable for all the arrears of rate,
no matter for how long a time they had accumulated.
He would now say one word on that most im-
portant point, the valuation on which it was proposed
to charge this rate. Suppose a farm was valued
at 1001. and let for the same sum, the amount charged
would be Si,, of which the landlord would pay one-
half and the tenant the other. So far the arrangement.
was perfectly fair.. But suppose that, instead of 1001.,
the farm was valued at 50/., his rent remaining the
same; there would still be 51. payable for the poor-
rate, or 2s. in the pound. The farmer would deduct ls-
a pound from his rent of 100/„ ane thus the landlord
would have to pay the whole instead of one-half of the
poor-rate. Reverse the process, and then the farmer
would be the sufferer. The present valuation was
most unequal; and Mr. Griffiths had stated that a true
valuation would not be made out till the end of 1851,
the very period when the rate in aid was to cease.—
(Hear, hear.) He regretted that government intended
to make no effectual improvement in the Irish poor-
law, and that they would not consent to the only
change that would make the rate in aid palateable—
viz , a diminution of the area of taxation. The
Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) imagined that such
a diminution would increase the number of evictions;
but it had been clearly shown that it would rather lessen
the number of evictions. Equally erroneous was the
idea that it would tend to reduce the people to a state of
serfdom. He had, however, no hesitation in saying,
that call him by what name they pleased, the man who
was employed at labour in the open air was an infi-
nitely superior and more elevated and enlightened being
than the man who was shut up within the tour walls of a
workhouse. He was surprised at the tone and manner
in which the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam-
worth referred to the law of 1816. It was a strange
boast to make that in consequence of that law the Go-
vernment had bean enabled to keep body and soul toge-
ther of 100,000 people. If they had passed the measure
proposed by his late lamented friend (Lord G. Bentinck)
for encouraging railways, they would not have had to
keep body and soul together of 100,000 starving wretches.
On the very day the Right Hon. Baronet made his
speech a letter was written from Dublin containing a
most deplorable account of the progress of destitution
throughout certain portions of Connaught. (The Noble
Lord then read a letter of a Dublin correspondent,
in which a gentleman named Hines, writing from New-
port, stated, on the authority of a person officially con-
nected with the district, that fully 1,000 lives must be
lost by starvation within the coming month.) The only
advantage, as it appeared to him, which had been derived
from the repeal of the Bill of 1846 was the importation
of Indian meal free of duty; but would it not have been
a wiser course for the Government. when the crisis ar-
rived, to have abolished the 10s. duty on Indian meal,
and have maintained the duty on every other descrip-
tion of grain? He agreed that it was essentially neces-
sary that a cereal crop should be substituted for the cul-
tivation of the potato, but that could only be done by
converting small cottiers into farm labourers. But how
could they expect those labourers to be employed unless
remunerating prices were secured to the cultiv,ator?
The Noble Lord concluded by saying, that ho could
not support the plan of her Majesty's Government, as
he considered it both impolitic and unjust, and that
if it were passed into a law it would reduce the whole
people of Ireland to one universal level of misery and
degradation.

Mr. C. FORTESCUE felt it his duty to vote against
the measure of her Majesty's Government. He ad-
mitted that Ireland ought at this juncture to make very
extraordinary efforts, but he wished those eff irts to be
made by means of another species of tax. He was de-
sirous to see an income-tax imposed upon Ireland for
Irish purposes, and bearing upon every description of
Irish property. This rate in aid was partial, and there-
fore unjust, as it would fall •i one class of persons only.
Some Hon. Gentlemen, however, in opposing this mea-
sure, had taken up a principle for the occasion which
they might hereafter (find to be very inconvenient.
They had argued that there should be an entire fusion
and assimilation of Ireland with England. This was a
principle against which he must protest. He could not
help thinking that they ought to rid themselves of a poor
law and a poor-rate altogether. He looktd upon this as a
great national emergency, in which the possessors of all
kinds of property ought to be called upon to exert them-
selves. Suppose a foreign enemy were threatening Ireland
at this moment the House would not think of calling
upon the possessors of one kind of property alone to
supply the funds necessary to meet that emergency.
They would adopt an income-tax.—(Hear, hear.) But
it was said that if the Government had proposed an in-
come-tax in place of a rate in aid, it would have met with
as bad a reception as the present proposal. He did not
agree in that. He did not mean to say it would have
been received with acclamation either in Ireland or in
that House ; but he thought it would been felt to have
much more fairness about it than the proposal of a rate
in aid.—(Hear, hear.) It had also been said that a rate
in aid would be much easier collected than an income-
tax, inasmuch as no new machinery would need to be
created. But as they were told that sooner or later they
would be saddled with an income-tax, he did not see why
they should not have anticipated that necessity, and
have imposed it now. With respect to the rate in aid
being more easily collected, he imagined that if the Go-
vernment had introduced the measure under that belief
they must, by this time, have found out their mistake.—
(Hear, hear.) For those reasons he would give his vote
against the proposition of the Government.

-When the lion. Gentleman resumed his seat some
amusement was created by the fact of about a score of
Members rising simultaneously with the view of fol-
lowing him in the debate. The Speaker, however,
called upon
Mr. DISRAELI, who said that the Hon. Member for
Manchester (Mr. Bright), in a speech which—although
he agreed as little with the Hon. Gentleman as probably
any Member in that House—he bad listened to with the
greatest pleasure and gratification, as he must do to
every demonstration of intellect which sustained the
reputation of that assembly—(Cheers)—had described
the session of Parliament for this year as an adjourned
debate upon the subject of the affairs of Ireland. It was
bin (Mr. Disraeli's) wish, before the House adjourned,
to
nns.gu
iene
geDed, if
tuhreiinrgdet possible,hliebe r in
various
atrioi terminatingonus s t
discussions
sc someu
ssi
onptshr
practical
idebate,which
conclu-
sbriion.
Hon. Gentleman referred, and in which he (Mr. Disraeli)
and the friends with whom be had the pleasure to
co-operate had been obliged perhaps too frequently to
interfere, they had on every occasion, when they had
ben forced to criticise the propositions of Government,
told them they were ready to agree to any arrangement
that was necessary from the circumstances in which they
were called upon to vote; but what they demanded as a
principle, indeed a primary condition was, that the Go-
vernment should come forward and give some assurance
to the House and the country that their temporary pro-
posals were not to be continued for ever.—(Hear.) How
was that movement received by the Government and by
individuals very justly influential in that House? The
Government persisted for a long time in the course with
sion.
to Thepcome down I.d'spiwstnedtoththae
A that
House of Commons and make a proposition for a
itw hwi eas
nthoetyonorly i
n a t
necessaryeAl thebsuets i c

grant of public money which, even upon their own
showing, could only meet the exigencies of the occasion
for a very brief period.—(Hear, hear.) When there fell
from the lips of a Right lion. Gentleman eminent in the
enentry and justly influential in that H:troetuosp,te,i,. ti7hmraeptas:uivecidh.
ensition should be accompanied by a comprehensive
a prop ech was the reception. which the intimation
measure, ee ezesvernment that even the Right Hon.
received from ,- -the Member for Ripon (Sir James
Gentleman himself— eerde to recoil from the too
Graham)—seemed after . ; i
'PO det. When catching
fhazardousrere t h
e lipsus use ofof thetha
that
li
greatcitou s
masts.,
said he could not assent to the propolis. ,
he
;o(aMor.f Disraeli)G e verb .
liwentcomprehensive
pa
rge
hraenata
iov
ef smoe, 0a
measure
with unlessr respect
we
we
R h
-use ea.uses
Ho f 0
ndoi sutruarbbiaon c eG
Gentleman
tdl e
ma n
.Ie
mwhheirc h
dentworth to
(Sir al andßoh
ert recognisedreei
measures.
That threw out a sneer against comprehensive .
raTil
ohl
ha
totiel le:
oi
ignandflt
aheionl Hon. Gentleman
warned
eedn
histtlheomg
house
ut
sability brought
htiiltithat
yt i
it
was
fait
sh
gee
rades
easy
stctuoesx:
itaioleint
rboyse mans,
theftobre 1701augmset.
'IC!. berexppreechteendsitYroemm measures,
firm,
0,1;
tuai
colossal
they
yiseawgk
were
receswti
obstinate.bhaoss.v lTitht I
eeThw.
They
were Go-
vernment
prepared were t not o
et
aonlyThe
iltheir proposition and to renew it,
if necessary, every fortnight. But what had beenthe resulthad
come forward with a proposition which affected tod
comprehensive, and the fate of which they were call'h .
and how ineffectual would be its results, the ready critic,
proposal,upon to decideand to
athheawt night—when, t —Ea
ewahbeint,
wasaisf
in
ao dwarf
conception,t e
the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth, came forwardhi.
and capped their climax with a suggestion ot.
l
in-
troduced n ' s o vast and
element
ia tco character, multitudinous
atrhaee t thater,
debate
and i
of a
interestingananewd
important
Gbeyntleitms
he (Mr. Disraeli) and his friends in the adoption, of thed
epithet to which he had referred.—(Hear, hear.) With
reference to the proposition of a rate in aid, the point for
anintthreod Memberuction, for hadßipjuesti justified the
the t
which
use,
had
e right
at
e
Hon.
least,
,most
ae
the House to consider was whether that was an adequate
proposition.frem th e
papers I
on
It wouldthb appear,
table,
what was popularly called the distressed unions, for the
maintenance of the poor during one year, was not less
ifth
a h
t e
the
expenditure ri right,
of ht,
than 540,0001., leaving a debt of upwards of 120,0001. in
addition. It was proposed in the present Bill to raise,
by means of a rate in aid, throughout all Ireland a sum
which, he understood, was calculated to amount to
320,000/. Now to him it appeared that that proposition
was essentially inadequate.—(Hear, hear.) If it pro-
duced any effect the proposition must be more than it
expressed.—(Hear, hear.) Here were the distressed
unions—he took, of course, only the twenty-one unions
which had been referred to—he did not refer to
the unions over which was impending a doom
as terrible ; but here were twenty-one distressed
unions which had expended in one year at least
240,0001. more than they had obtained from the rates
which had been struck, and which had besides increased
their debt considerably above 100,000/. Well, generally
speaking, the fruit of a rate in aid would hardly be able
to supply the deficiency incurred in those distressed
unions when the state of Ireland was probably not so
severe as at the present moment. It appeared, then, on
a general glance, that this proposition of Government,
if it meant nothing more than a 6d. rate in aid over the
whole of Ireland, was an inadequate proposition.—
(Hear, hear.) But there might be other objections to
the proposition besides being inadequate. It might be
an impolitic proposition, and he thought eiCwas so.—
(Hear, hear.) lie thought that a measure which had
been introduced to renovate the land of a country which
suffered from a deficiency of capital, and which com-
menced by forcibly reducing that capital—(Hesir, hear)
—could scarcely be called a wise measure—that a
measure which in a country where all acknowledged
.here ought to- be a stimulus given to self•exertion,
reduced the excitement to self-exertion, could scarcely
be called a discreet measure (Hear, hear)—that
a measure which without encountering the difficulties
which they themselves felt, or dealing with the remedies
which others suggested, sought, or if it did not seek,
tended to aggravate the burdens on property, could
scarcely be described as a measure conceived in a states- -
manlike spirit—that a measure which declared that Ire-
land was to be considered in a different spirit from any
other part of the United Kingdom—he said that a mea-
sure of that kind could hardly be described in the
present day as being characterised by profound saga-
city.—(Hear, hear.) He agreed with the liOnourable
Gentleman who had just addressed the House with so
much ability, that there was a difference between Eng-
land and Ireland. But they must never recognise it as
an imperial difficulty. A county in Ireland might differ
in condition from a county in England ; who doubted
it ? All they could do was, by constitutional laws, to
lay down great general principles, which all must recog-
nise, to which all must adhere, and by which all must b.:
influenced. But in different portions of an an-
cient empire groat diversity of circumstance must occur.
The tenure of land was different, as between Mid-
dlesex and Kent. Did the existence of gavelkind afford
any reason why a different general policy should be ap-
plied to Middlesex than was applied to Kent? And so
with respect to Ireland. There might be difference be-
tween the two countries; there might be geographical
differences; there might be difference from geographical
association. But if they mulcted the man of Kent in a
tax to which the man of Middlesex was not liable, what
sort of answer would it he to his remonstrance were
they to remind him that his tenure was different—that
he bore on his banner the white horse of Hengist, that
the associations of their history were different, and that
the system of their taxation could not be the same?—
(Hear, hear.) The proposition before the House was a
proposition which, historically, was inadequate; which,
wastive
nil(td;iicin,ietoawrtvh;
caahoste
ahreom olstt
wasobje catarader
it ot i
awl al
ys ,
at hdaeteietp
politically, was indiscreet. And if it were inadequate
pni and
1 nation
iii
tlispooionmi zi
el:.
oi—ooul
batrnihautitoen.
_al(Hraetaer,thoeawr.h)ichHtehwe hole
they go to that desolate Connaught which could
these
raiseae
local its ratest—r i
b(
national one? It was not a national rate, because a great
at It
iebabr
a,
,h eaabrd) —awa hi
li c hb
ac o uiltd
tnoo t
praayi s ea
portion of the nation would not contribute to it, and es-
pecially that portion which was to be benefited.—(Hear,
hear.) He knew there were gentlemen, and gentlemen
representing English constituencies, wbo were little in-
clined to take the view ho had been led on reflection to
take. They thought there was a local interest at stake;
that,tt
oh the
contribute
m aftere a s a reall,
a t
not
dh i
ats
hb
lwe
baugsneatnnewrlharilieshnh
elsorqeeusi
saaibbt
idbelses
h.withltdhrobe
eye pmfeaper tierateod?
They make a mistake.—(Hear, hear.) —lice ryas totally
against considering the question in so limited a light.
If, as he thought, there was a shortsighted, and not a
magnificent feeling, on the part of the mere English mem-
bers, that Ireland should be made to contribute what
after all could not be a very considerable amount with
reference to the exigency that existed, in what position
did they, by adopting a Government measure, place
themselves with the country and their constituencies,
regarding it merely from an English point of view?
It was called a vote of 100,000/, on the security of
a law which might never be put in execution.—
(Hear, hear.) 100,0001. were to come Irons the English
Exchequer; what compensation they were to receive
for it was a problem yet to be solved. But he would not
dwell on the points. He wanted to show the Members
representing English constituencies that the proposition
of the Government was not only inadequate, impolitic,
and illusory, but also unjust,—(Hear, hear)—and that if
they assisted in the accomplishment of the injustice it
would perpetrate, they would in fact be warring against
their own interests and taking a course which hereafter
they might have cause bitterly to repent.—(Hear, hear.)
Some short time back he had called the attention of the
House to the burdens on land in England. Whatever
merit any proposition he made might have, the accuracy
of the facts could not be disputed. None could deny that
from the coarse and uncivilised system of taxation which
had always seized on landed property taxes to a remark-
able degree had been laid on the real property of Eng.
land. What were they going
to do now? At a moment
of unprecedented difficulty and unparalleled trial, when
every man felt himself called on to make remarkable
sacrifices, what what was the gist of this statesmanlike
proposition? That the property which bad already
borne the brunt should incur fresh sacrifices. Was it
to gratify some petty pique that English Members sup-
ported such a proposition? Was it for their interest or
for the interest of the country that they should Salleti3ll
by their votes to-night so dangerous a system, and so
perilous a precedent?—(Hear, hear.) Ought they not
rather to declare in language which could not be mis-
taken that the system of peculiar burdens on the agri-
cultural interest, either in England or Ireland, .was no
longer to be tolerated?—(Hear, hear.) Those were
briefly the reasons why he opposed the Bill on the
table. The lion. Member for Manchester (Mr. Bright)
had reminded the House that the Right lion. Member
for Tamworth (Sir R. Peel) had taken that opportunity,
not merely of expressing his opinion of the proposition
of Government, but of expressing opinions of his own
on the general policy which ought to be pursued with
respect to Ireland. Considering only the great repute- ,
tion and position of that Right Honorable Gentleman, he
(Mr. Disraeli) would receive with the greatest deference
any communication the Right Hon. Gentlethan might
make to the House on so interesting a subject. But
considering the position of the United Kingdom, and
the perilous state of Ireland, considering that the House
of Commons, after sitting two months, mei about to ad-
journ for no inconsiderable period, without having de-
cided a single point, or carried a single measure except
the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act—(Cheers)—he
thought it would bo a mockery to argue the proposi•
tion before the House without reference to the opinions
expressed by so considerable an authority in so ample
and frank a manner. Whatever might be the general
opinion with respect to that exposition of a distinguished
statesman, it must be conceded that after that expres-
sion of opinion, it was impossible that anything
more should be heard in that House of the
laisserfaire system.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Disraeli)
remembered some two years !ago, when one whose loss
he always lamented, but never more than when the con-
dition of Ireland was brought under the consideration of
the House—(Hear)—that having risen hastily to support
that measure, which the future proved to be so saga-
cious and statesmanlike on the part of Lord G. Bentinck
—he had said that in dealing with Ireland commercial
principles were not sufficient—(Hear, hear)—that there
were circumstances in Ireland of a political nature with
which political principles could alone cope; and that, in
stimulating private enterprise, they might in that country
call, and rightly call, on the State to interfere. Com-
mercial principles were insufficient, since the circum-
stances to be dealt with were not merely commercial.-
-(Heer, hear.) He had received a reply that night from
one who, with a very weak case, was a very powerful op-
ponent, and who exercised great influence in that House.
'the principle he had laid down to vindicate his advocacy
of State assistance to commercial enterprise in Ireland
was opposed by the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth,
who repudiated the doctrine with respect to the political

and commercial asp
lz
eci
csatros theauueolfdlfoae px(
ti qlrdyouu sntuotoi
toptnhtu,hei
iiatnienuk:iletuwhi
circumstances
nosui
ana
nudacmvl :yds-
cleast
less
whichdt
ht
ohhuoogs eh
(t
1r
now
principles pp,
of
whlreland.
He listened
demolishing
the tou the
rgumlai Rnt, ight
tohn Honourable bulde
admiration
Bd uuet ttoi
mae mrausvteenrg,
revenged
dn d
truth;cou lad
undo
the
aeven
wattempt
ea
ur eigpulyt.
Hon. Gentleman's speech was the proposition which on
two occasions:the same Right Hon. Gentleman had de-
voloped.—(Hear.) When they considered that the state
of Ireland was one which had baffled all statesmen—
when they reflected on the position of any Government
called on to cope with a case uf such aggravated diffi •
culty, great was the responsibility of that man who
came forward in a position so eminent as that of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, and volunteered his opinions.
It was on his part, no doubt, a high act of duty.
Those suggestions ought to be received with great
respect, but, at the same time, weighed with careful
scrutiny. If they were founded on deep thought,
fine observation, and matured_ experience, none more
readily than he (Mr. Disraeli) could acknowledge
those qualities, or support the policy which miglit
bring those sug,estioss into action. Those sugges-
tions were numerous; they wire not all novel. Fa ili-
ties for the transfer of' land, plans to encourage en.i-
gration, propositions to permit the investmeet of public
moneys in public works, were measures of great interest
and importance, but they had been heard of before.
The characteristic feature of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man's revelations was, that, somehow or other, the
state or the society of England was to appropriate to
itself those vast regions which were now the scene of
so much misgovernment and misery in Ireland, and
that, by happier management and more successful cul-
tivation, results quite opposite to those now realised
would be attained, and the regeneration of Ireland
would, iu fact, be occasioned by a change in the tenure
of land under the happier auspices of the English Go-
vernment. A more elaborate exposition had been given
by the Right Hon. Baronet besides the preliminary in-
timation afforded some weeks ago—not inferior in
ability—not as the Odyssey to the Iliad, the setting to
the rising sun, but still as radiant and fervent as his
earliest effort. Combining those two expositions, he
(Mr. Disraeli) could only conclude that the Right
Honourable Gentleman anticipated at the bottom
of his mind a considerable home colonization in
Connaught. He referred to the time of James
1., and quoted the economical opinions of the wisest
of Englishmen. But had the Right Hon. Gentleman
considered the consequences of his proposition ? So far
as he (Mr. Disraeli) could follow the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, whom indeed he always followed with great at-
tention, there seemed one great pervading fallacy. The
Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to assume that lands
were lying waste in consequence of the operasion of the
poor-law, and that they were depopulated. They might
be desolate, but they need not be depopulated. So far as.he
(Mr. Disraeli) could obtain information, they were not
so. There was a population on the waste lands who were
quite sensible of the rights of possession and ready to
maintain an adverse claim even though the title put
forth be a Parliamentary one. In what position did
that circumstance place the Right Hon. Gentleman and
similar projectors ? But, said the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, " remember the plantations of Ulster." They
were conceived by great statesmen, and they achieved
great results. Ulster had, in trying times, maintained
the connexion between the two countries. Why should
they not be as successful in carrying out plantations
under Victoria as they bad been under King James?
When the the prime cause s of the success which
had attended the Ulster plantation were examined,
one could scarcely be induced to believe that the Right
Hon. Gentleman was the statesman who advocated such
a principle. The plantation of Ulster, notwithstanding
a thousand difficulties, was successful from the inspiring
force of a community of religious sentiment. Now, the
Right Hon. Gentleman was not, he imagined, the states-
man to look forward to a community of religious feel-
ing to be the basis of his new plantation.—(Bear, hear.)
Yes; but what the Right Hon. Gentleman proposed was
to place there substantial farmers, men of great capital
and considerable scientific acquirement. Now, he did
not wish to hurt the feelings of any one, but it was pro-
bable that the great majority of those persons would be
Protestants; living in the midst of a Roman Catholic
population, who would not only regard them as intru-
ders, but'as men having an inferior title to themselves.
He saw all the difficulty of plantations on the Protestant
principle, such as took place 200 years ago. Were they
to reproduce that source of so many calansi ies? He
hardly believed that the House of Commons would au-
thorise that principle.—(" Oh ! oh !") " Oh ! oh r but
they must deal with the circumstances before them,
and if they called upon England to undertake an expe-
riment of such vast proportions, without considering all
these circumstances, they would not be acting like states.
men. Ho spoke entirely independent of the reli-
gious feeling—which he (Mr. Disraeli) would be
as little ready as any man to evoke, and which
he was sure the Right Honourable Gentleman would
be the last man in the House to evoke when
he said that a colony or plantation taking place in a
country where the population had an adverse possession
offered a prospect of the most calamitous kind.—(Hear,
hear.) ,Would they plant these men in Connaught with-
out taking care that they were protected? But, if they
were to be protected, how was it to be done? Why, by
force, by arming themselves, and by the development of
the military principle which always took place in these
plantations. He did not believe that any attempt at home
colonization of this kind, even if they proceeded in the
mitigated forms and with the modified courses of the 19th
century, could end in anything except in calamities
which the imagination could not conceive, and which
they would all hereafter deplore and wish to avoid. But
the Right Hon. Gentleman would not carry his plan
into effect as far as a forced plantation or colony, but
ho would have a high commission to manage these
lands. Now there was one deficiency in the speech of
the Right Hon. Gentleman, who proposed that his
commission should be a local one, and that it should be
on the spot. But he seemed to omit from his consider-
ation that these distressed districts did not lie alto-
gether. If the Right Hon Gentleman looked at the
map of Ireland, and traced that extensive western coast
from the Bay of Donogal to Bantry Bay, he would
find that some of this district commenced at the upper
part of Donegal and ended at Kerry, and that there
intervened the counties of Clare and Limerick. He
should wish to know where the Right Hon. Gentleman
proposed to place this local commission, which was to be
on the spot, and to supersede not only the metropolitan
authority, but also the authority of the Viceroy. But,
suppose this high commission established, say at
Limerick, what was it to do? The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, vague and shadowy as he was, and which
became the colossal proportions of such projects, did
descend a little into detail, and referred to those men.
sures which the House had passed for the mitigation of
the sufferings of Ireland. What were those measures?
The Right Honourable Gentleman particularly dwelt
upon the funds voted to pfomote drainage in Ire-
land, which funds were now under the manage-
ment of the Commissioners of Public Works.
(Hear, hear.) Now, he would take that instance.
Was there any Gentleman imagined that those funds
could be better managed by a commission such as the
Right Hon. Gentleman had recommended? If there
were, he should like to know the grounds of such an
opinion. He was reading the report of the Commis-
sioners of Public Works that morning, and he was cer-
tainly of opinion that if those Commissioners erred,
which he was far from suggesting was the case, it was
on the side of too much scrupulosity; but better ma-
nagement and greater discretion in the application of
public funds he did not believe were anywhere to be
found. Did the House suppose that these high Commis-
sioners would show more discretion, more vigilance,
eblgic
more economy than the Commissioners. o
might
pursue
this train of analysis with respect to theapplication f
the public funds. He could not bring himself to believe
tWhaotrkthse?Lo(CrdrieHs of "Hear,ighCommhear.")issioners could manage the
funds raised by the poor-rate better than was done at
n
present by the guardians and vice-guardians.
The Right
Hon. Baronet had given credit to the latter bodies, and
how did he suppose that his commission would be able
to administer these funds with greater ability? Take
the railways. What were the High Commissioners
to do if Government advanced 1,500,0001. to
Irish railways ? Who would administer that ?
Why, the directors of the railway. As far as the
plantation scheme of the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman was concerned he thought it impossible—as far
as the application of the present funds, and the mainte.e
nance of the present arrangements connected therewith
in Ireland were concerned, be thought it would
be nugatory. Under the best circumstances, the
High Commissioners would not be able to act more
for the public advantage than the functionaries
that now existed. But the third and more im-
portant feature of the Right Honourable Gentleman's
plan was that of giving a Parliamentary title—(Hear,
hear)—and before Hon. Members were fascinated by the
large and eloquent views of an experienced statesman,
they should .pause and consider whether the measure
proposed were a matured measure, or a crude and ill-
advised one. He (Mr. Disraeli) had heard in his time
many causes given for the miseries and misgovernment
of Ireland, and there had been nothing more interesting
than the variety of changes on that subject. At the
earlier part of his public career it was supposed that
Ireland had been miserable and misgoverned on account
of the difference of religion between the two countries.
Then it was found that the cause was not religious, but
political, and that Ireland had not a sufficient number of
Members of Parliament. Well, Ireland had an increased
number of Members of Parliament; but she remained
equally miserable and misgoverned as ever.—(A laugh.)
Then it was discovered that the cause was not religious
or political, but municipal. Ireland, it was dis-
covered, had no Roman Catholic aldermen. Well,
she at last had Roman Catholic aldermen.
They had seen in that House the Lord Mayor of
Dublin, with his gold chain, and they had now a Lord
Mayor from that city without one. But the misery and
misgovernment remained, and at last it was discevered
that the cause was neither religious, political, nor muni-
cipal, but material, and was to be found in the tenure of
lands. That opinion prevailed some time, when the
cause was suddenly discovered to be social. To the
Right Hon. Gentleman was now due the credit of pro-
claiming that the real cause that Ireland was miserable
muni-
cipal, material, nor social, but that it was legal.
Ireland It
a-
and misgoverned was neither religious, political,
peared that all this time her Majesty's realmd oaf
laugh.)
had been in Chancery.—(" Hear, hear,"
cause,involved in a Chancery
knew that when a gentleman gote ihnivsn vcarriages and
suit he dispensed with some o
Well, be thought that a sufficient
less splendid, and his
ser-
vants, that his banquets became
that the same result
raiment more scanty, he supposed
large when •
it got
produced upon the nation at
might be
Hon. Gentleman had acted
into Chancery. The Right
• h considerable decision.
~
He had, in his own language
anand as they
House that he would give these properties a Parlia-
the
offeredwlt himself to cut the Gordian knot, and had told
giensary title. The lion. Member for Mauchoter had

talked of the general registry on the continent,
the effect of which, it had been stated, had added
several years' purchase to the value of the lands. The
Right Hon. Gentleman proposed to take the lands of
Connaught and sell them under a Parliamentary title,
which he (Mr. Disraeli) maintained would have the same
effect as a system of general registry. The Right Hon.
Gentleman would sell them first of all to pay the state
for the sums advanced, or to defray the rates for which
they were indebted, and, after paying those charges, he
would hand over the proceeds to the proprietor. That
property would be sold under great advantages, but
what would he do to the property in Munster or Ulster?
Did he mean to say that the solvent and provident pro-
prietor should bring his property into the market at a
disadvantage e‘compared with the insolvent and im-
provident proprietor, who had not discharged his
duty either to himself, to society, or to his
country.—(Hear, hear.) Was an estate iu Con-
naught, on account of the 'aches of the proprietor, to
be sold under these advantages, and was the
Ulster proprietor to be told—" Your title is reasonably
good, but there is a ruined and dissolute fellow in Con-
naught, nho has a Parliamentary title, and your mask t
is 'lest' oyed ?"—(Eleae, hear.) He oppthed the planta-
tion scheme of the Right Hon. Gentleman, es he had
stated, because it was impossible; his interference with
the local funds, because it would be nugatory; and his
Parliamentary title, because he held it to be unjust.—
(Hear, hear.) He agreed with the Right Hon. Gentle-
men in thinking it expedient to reduce the area of tax-
ation, which his (Mr. ,Disraeles) friends had for some
time been urging upon the attention of the House. The
Right Hon. Baronet had alluded to the influence which
the repeal of the corn-laws had exercised on the circum-
stances of Ireland. He was not anxious to introduce
this subject, and thus to revive those perhaps too bitter
disputes which he feared would again too quickly and
too fiercely come under their consideration.—(Hear,
hear.) But he felt bound to notice the observations
of the Right Honourable Gentleman if he intro-
duced the subject. He had asked, what would be the
state of Ireland if, with the potato famine in that
country, Indian meal were still subject to a duty of
10s? The Right Lion. Gentleman always assumed that
Indian meal could never have been introduced into Ire-
land except at a duty of 10s., in which he differed from
the Right Hon. Gentleman. If he were forced by these
allusions to refer to the repeal of the corn-laws with re-
ference to the condition of Ireland, he felt persuaded that
when the future historian of our time—one, perhaps, as
well acquainted with the circumstances, and as highly
accomplished, as that brilliant writer whose absence he
as deeply deplored as any man in that House—if he had
to recount the past, and to tell the world that almost at
the same time a statesman of this country introduced the
vast experiment of a poor-law in Ireland, and, at the
same time, not only disturbed, but destroyed, the assured
and only markets which that country had, whatever
might have been that historian's economic theory, how-
ever completely he might be bound to those dogmas
which he (Mr. Disraeli) believed might be so generally
true and so partially false, of this he felt pursuaded, that
such an historian would say that the statesman who
at the same time introduced that vast experiment
upon a country which he also deprived of
her markets, was embarking, not only in the most dan-
gerous, but also the most ruinous experiment, which any
Minister had ever dared to venture upon.—(Cheers )
The question which had thus been brought under the
notice of the House was one quite independent of any
abstract truth, and completely apart from any of the
theories of which they had heard so much. To enforce
the joint operations of two such measures as a poor-law
in Ireland and the repeal of the corn-laws was a political
blunder as great as any that had ever been committed.
It was quite true that the Right Hon. Gentleman the
Member for Tamworth might say that be was in no
respect answerable for the poor-law, that it had not
been inflicted upon Ireland by him. But whether or
not he was responsible for the poor•law in Ireland,
he should have remembered that that: poor-law had
been passed before he proposed to Parliament a re-
peal of the corn-laws; and the House should remember
that there proceeded from that succession of mea-
sures a combination such as the human intellect had

greater confidence, because he had not heard Ministers
themselves maintain that their own proposition was
adapted to those which would be, probably, the perma-
nent circumstances cf the country. He had also ven-
tured to criticise the elaborate proposition of the Right
Honourable Member fbr Tamworth, as delivered
to them in the second of his series of speeches
upon this subject. He should be glad to hear the
third address of the Right Honourable Baronet, for
doubtless they would have many speeches, each edition
revised and corrected for public use. He need make
no apology for thus dwelling on the sentiments
of that Right Hun. Gentleman, as everything that fell
from his lips must be of vast importance, considering
his great experience of public life, and more especially
considering his great experience in the administration
of Irish affairs. When they recollected how many years
the Right Hon. Gentleman had been Chief St cretary to
the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland they might naturally
suppose that the plans which he propounded to the
House were the quintessence of all the projects that he
found in the pigeon-holes of his office in the Castli,atDublin.
But whatever view that Right Hon. Baronet might take
of the affairs of Ireland his suggestions would be calcu-
lated to web public attention, though they might not
satisfy the public necessity; nevertheless. his opinions
were to be valued not only for their intrinsic worth, but
also on account of the position which their author occu-
pied in the House and the country. They were of value,
likewise, because they were significant of the way in
which public opinion was being formed and the quarter
to which it was directed. He looked also at the opinions
of the Right Hoe. Gentleman as proofs that the time
had gone by for dealing with Ireland upon grounds of
political economy, and it was something to have arrived
It that when they remembered the propositions they
had listened to, and what speeches had been made
in that House session "after session, and oppore
tunity &ter opportunity.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
When the affairs of Ireland were most pressing he had
frequently found great satisfaction on taking up his
newspaper in the morning when he perceived that there
had been a meeting of MAI Members in Downing-street
re:pecling some Irish railway, and greater satisfaction
still when he came down to the House and found that
another railway was to be supported. The capital, then,
which his late Noble Friend had proposed to be applied
to the purposes of Irish railways was now well nigh ex-
hausted, and in that very direction which his Noble
Friend had pointed out. Let there be only another
famine and all that his Noble Friend had proposed would
be carried into full effect.—(Hear, hear.) He had spo-
ken respectfully of the plans of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, and he entertained for them much respect, a senti-
ment to which they were fully entitled; and when the
House had heard those views propounded to them, no
wonder that some who did not always keep present to
their minds what occurred in tha t House, should ask
why he and those who thought with him had not likewise
favoured them with views of Ireland—why they had
not followed the example of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
by also becoming painters. He could tell them that
that had already been done. In adverse times,
when they were political economists, he had put forward
to them the necessities of the Irish and modes of relief.
He should now, as then, oppose any proposition which
tended to make any difference between Ireland and Eng-
land. The need of Ireland was an imperial need, and he
maintained that it was as politic as it was highly wise and
just, to treat Ireland as an integral part of the United
Kingdom, and, with fitting assistance and friendly
counsel, much might be done for Ireland that might be
far more valuable than a rate in aid. It had been sug-
gested that Ireland would readily contribute, by means
of an income-tax, to the necessities of her own poor,
and he certainly should support his Hon. Friend the
Member for Kerry it he brought forward a proposition
to that extent. He should support an income-tax com-
bined with the workhouse test if it terminated that in-
justice to the land of Ireland to which he was
strongly opposed ; and, as he considered that aid
was required from the Imperial Exchequer, he saw no
reason why it should not be contributed from an Irish
income-tax. 6,000,0001. might thus be fairly brought
into play, every species of Irish property might be taxed
fairly, and there would be nothing having a tendency to

never previously encountered, and many years might . induce mortgagees to foreclose. Tliat clas;of proprietors
not pass away before it produced a state of society would then contribute as readily as any other; a fund
in Ireland calculated to shako the institutions of the would thus he created for the relief of the Irish poor, and
empire to their foundations.—(Hear.) The Right Hon. the pride of Ireland, the justifiable pride of the country,
Gentleman had with considerable effect shown how the might be legitimately iedulged. That was his idea of an
imperial duties of this country had been fulfilled, and income-tax; and no* he would seek to impress this upon
upon that occasion he read to the House a certain letter the attention of the House, that if they wished to adopt
written by a Lancashire man, warning the House at the the suggestion of the Right Hon. Member for Tam-
same time not to laugh. In his opinion that caution worth, they must revert to the law of 1838; and
was perfectly necessary, for there was nothing whatever they must come to this, that they shall di-
in the letter to provoke laughter. It was a plain, minish the taxing area. But when they obtained
straightforward statement of details given with unaffected such an income-tax as he suggested—when they had
simplicity. It was calculated to produce great effect, stopped the great evil of the poor-law, then the State
but there was not one line of it that did not admit of might aid the enterprise and industry of Ireland, accord-
being dwelt upon. There certainly was no reason why ing to the suggestions of his Noble Friend, under the
such letters should not be read, nor any reason why sanction and shadow of the Imperial Treasury. He did
Lancashire might not prosper in the west of Ireland. not despair of Ireland; and one object at the present mo-
But letters from Lancashire might also be brought for- ment was to meet difficulties of so pressing a nature that
ward to show that recent measures of legislation had not a day should pass without thinking of some measure
stopped the progress of improvement and checked the of alleviation and improvement. The time had arrived
growing prosperity which Lancashire men might confer. when England and Ireland must learn to forget: it was
He also held in his hand a letter from a Lancashire useless to go back to the past. It would be unprofitable
man, part of which he intended to read to the House. or worse to examine minutely the blunders of some and
It was a letter addressed to the Editor of the Times, the corruption of all. He hailed as a new era that period
and bore date the Ist of December, 1848, with the when those recollections would vanish with the potato—
signature " Francis Graham." As it had so recently ap- when the strife which had subsisted between the two
peered in the Times newspaper, it doubtless was well countries would be consigned to oblivion. Petty and tra-
known to the Members of that House, but there was one ditional causes of dissension must he forgotten; both
short extract of a few lines which he could not deny him- countries must really be united, and Ireland, like the
self the pleasure of reading, for Mr. Graham took ex- Patriarch in his struggle 'with the mystic wrestler, would
ceedingly just views of the present state of Ireland, and find that when the strife was over she had been contend-
of the consequences which the present poor-law was ing, not with an oppressor, but with a guardian angel.
likely to produce in that part of the United Kingdom. Lord J. RUSSELL ssid—The Hon. Gentleman who
Mr. Graham, part of whose letter he had to read, ad- has just sat down, to whom I have listened with the
dressed the editor of the Times in these words :—"A utmost attention during the whole of his speech, has
Lancashire gentleman, son to Mr. Eastwood, of Brindle- made it necessary for me to enter into details in reply to
lodge, near Preston, who has got a lease for ever from him, extended far beyond the mere ordinary course of
me of a large improveable tract, and who, in the two the present debate. But before I enter upon these
years he has resided here has expended between 4,0001. larger questions, I think it advisable for a short time
and 5,0001. on it (no idle man), having employed on to detain the House with some vindication of the project
the average 50 labourers daily, and in summer some- of the Government which is now before it. That pro-
times as many as 120, most of them belonging to the ject is not, as the lion. Gentleman represented it, in-
properties of other proprietors, and there not being one tended as a comprehensive view of the present Admi-
single pauper on the large townland on which he re- nistration to relieve the distress at prts .nt prevailing in
sides, containing 2,658 acres—on the valuation of the Ireland, or to promote at once the general prosperity of
union being revised the other day, had his that country.—(Hear, hear.) It is intended only as a
improvements valued at an increase of 115/. a-year, merely temporary measure, adapted for the cure of the
though none of them are as yet in the slightest evils under which Ireland iii at present suffering, but is
degree reproductive. (He wanted to show how the not a project contemplated to afford any ultimate or
present poor-law was fatal to Ireland.) The result is, comprehensive relief.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The
Mr. Eastwood has dismissed all his labourers except Honourable Gentleman stated that the proposition of a
twelve, and until a :change in the law takes place has rate in aid, as introduced by the Government, was unfair.
completely ceased all his improvements and employment, Now, Sir, I cannot believe that any one would have
by which so many families were supported, who are now said that it was unjust if we had proposed, in any or-
thrown upon the union as recipients of out-door relief." dinary year, or under ordinary circumstances, that the
—(hear, hear.) He was OA from those indications of taxation of Ireland should be assimilated to that of Eng-
sentiment to find that not only the Right Hon. Gentle land.—(Hear.) When Ireland was not allowed to have
man the Member for Tamworth, but the responsible ad- recourse to our colonies ; when she was not permitted
visers of the Crown, were in the same boat with him; to trade with the West Indies or North America; when
and he hoped that when the Noble Lord awoke from the even the trade with this country was fettered like that
slumbers he was then enjoying that ho would turn his with a foreign state ; then it might be right that the
attention to the effects of the poor-law in Ireland upon superior amount of taxation should be borne by Eng-
the success of Mr. Eastwood's speculation. The Noble land.—(Hear.) But since every restriction of this kind
Lord would find that Mr. Eastwood had dismissed all upon her commerce has been done away with, it appears
his labourers save twelve, and he had adopted the reso- to me that there would be no injustice to Ireland in
lution of not proceeding with his improvements till the proposing that many taxes to which this part of the
law was entirely changed. One immediate effect of this empire is subjected—such, for instance, as the
was that a certain number of families became entitled land-tax, the assessed taxes, the duties of the
to out-door relief. He should now call the attention excise, and the income-tax, should all be ax-
of the House to another case, that of Mr. Prior:— tended in principle and practice to Ireland.—(Hear,
"Another gentleman, Mr. Prior, who has a similar lease hear.) But if this be so, it comes then to a question
from me, and obtained from Government 8001. as a loan, of expediency whether these taxes should be extended
under the Act you refer to in your article of the 17th to Ireland. It appeared to us that we were imposing
ult., the first instalment of which, 160/., he has already a lighter burden upon that country, under present
laid out on his farm, having previously expended a large circumstances, when we proposed that a rate of no more
amount of private capital on it, had his improvements, than 6d. in the pound should be levied on all the rateable
effected with this Government money, valued, and his property in Ireland. But if we had proposed such a
rates increased in an equal manner ; the consequence of s 3 stem of taxation as I have alluded to, we might have
which is, that the wrote last week to the Government, contemplated applying its proceeds to general Imperial
saying he must decline taking the remainder of the 800/., purposes. The tax we do propose, however, we intend
as his doing so would make him liable to pay a greater should be appropriated to the relief of the suffering part
sum than he even now does, to support the paupers of of the kingdom only. Now, if it be just that we should
other estates." Those were the views of the state of propose such a tax for imperial purposes, is it not so
Ireland which the persons best qualified to bear testimony when we propose it should be entirely applied to Ireland,
to them furnished to the public. But the leading Mem- and for the benefit of that country exclusively?—(Hear.)
bers on both sides of that House were all for remedial Now, if there is any truth in this remark, so far as the
measures,and earnestly professed a desire to stimulate pri- justice of the proposition is concerned, I believe that our
vote enterprise and industry under the sanction of the state. proposal can be maintained with perfect justice. The
But the proprietor of Ireland treated their laws un- Hon. Gentleman opposite who has just sat down hasssesub.d
gratefully or seemed to do so, for the obvious reason that the contemplated tax will be inadequate for itoo .
that they could not use those laws otherwise than at jects. He took the amount! at only about; 300, _ u.
enormous cost. The House could not fail to have ob. Well, then, a sum of 50,000 L had been already voted by
served the circumstances which under the letter be had the House; and assuming the Hon. Gentleman's calcula-
quoted bad been written. It was written in the tone of tion to be correct, there will be a sum of 350,0001. in the
a man who desired to expostulate with The Times, alter course of the year 'applicable to the relief of Irish dis-
one of its indignant and powerful articles, exercising all tress. In the course of last year 390,0001. had been
the influence which they were well known to exercise applied to the relief of the distress in the whole of
over public opinion. The writer of the letter appeared Ireland; but still carrying out the charitable views of
net only to have that object in view, but he seemed also this country, the British Association had a large sum is
to conclude that in the attempt of the Government to hand. I submit, therefore, that the sum of 350,00.01.
carry out their views, they meant at the same time to would be an adequate sum for the purpose of relievltril
confer a boon upon Ireland by facilitating improvement the existing and contemplated distress in Ireland
and employment. But the Ministers of the Crown might Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire says ourpropositLeon.
rest thoroughly assured of this, that until the laws were is an unfair distribution of the burden tarnofrt
altered the hands of all men would be tied. He would cause it falls entirely on the landed property
quote again from the letter of which he had already read who are peculiarly burdened—on oner-ic3ilss i
part of the sub-
an extract:— more than another. With regard to
re rates to be col-
that as there we
"Owing to the principles of the present poor-law, the ject, it appeared to us
the
aor, it would be eraeas nd
nythethosey
boon granted by the Legislature to benefit the country, lected for the reliefh of I)
prep os e d tax in the same way. But
by facilitating improvement and employment, is cons e
et-eland tell us that a tax upon
- lighter to collect t
represent, mt
eon would
s thatb
we
hailfea itrheerybaurred burden than
ill
in ono
tr pletely nullified; and until the law with respect to im- if those who_
provements on land being subject to increased rate for a property
they' would accept an income and
certain extended period, is altered, and until each pro- proposal—ifa, our
andthey
I°i:hat sufficient relief would be ven
perty or townland is directly liable to support the dead- 4
tution existing on it, by employment or otherwise, the
trom ttlYeirPrsrgasenistion—l can assure those Hon. Gentle-
handsmen there will be no such insuperable objection to their
of every man, whether improving landlord or in- et ropers tax
proposal on the part of the Government as will prevent
dustrious farmer, are completely tied, and the position
use from adopting that form of impost which appears to
of this country must go from bad to worse,a theste
platoy.i"g
be most approved of by those • t rested.-lear hear.) out of capital on land being completely put
Ireland, then, being in the condition depicted in that
the The Hon. M b f "m is In
estated in If ' h
ern er or .....oneuester
document, he could not help asking the House and
f the holidays that
having now for some years ciditributed to the relief
Government how thercould adiofurta : lan.
e Aslar of Irish distress in this country. Ireland was bound to
with such a law in exist:le:6'6l7' -(
"tear, able Gentlem take —' ' ' part, not's
as he could follow the nig I_lo.
- hte
didt'n°outr understand an
all ' ' leans on that
the Member for Tamworth, h
esent oor-1 him
°ley and - entirely but in part, in the
eviation of the pressure which nowiththe
Hon-
as giving in his adhesion to the pr p law; but, country. And in that opinion I concur w
was that Right Hon. Gentleman prepared to go back to Gentleman. It is nothing to the present case to say, as
the law of 1838?—for he was presumed to undertake has been said in former discussions as well as the re-
the workhouse test, and to maintain that it must be ap- sent, that the money contributed for the relief of Irish
plied. But he had heard the Right Honourable Gentle- distress, from the Imperial Exchequer, was ill distri-
man talk of employing the poor on the roads, and he
confessed himself rather at a loss to understand how bated or lavishly bestowed. That may be brought as a
charge against the Government; but as far as the
that was to be done consistently with a stringent Pon)
maintenance of the workhouse teat. Ile further
under- le of Great Britain are concerned, their readiness
is still the same to contribute to the ,distress where it
stood the Right Honourable Gentleman
tooose a
existed.—(Hear, hear.) The application of the funds,
labour-rate as bad in policy, and in many respects ob- therefore, had nothing to do with the question
jectionable. He hoped that he was correctly stating large contribution made by Great Britain to the
enter relief
further
the sentiments of the Right Honourable Gentleman, for distress.—(Hear.) I am not willing to
uestio ns so
it was most important that they should have his opinion into this subject of the rate in aid, because q of t hoof
distinctly. If the labour-rate were to be denounced how
much larger and more important than the payment of
for two years have been raised
were the paupers to be employed upon the roads of a sixpence in the pound
country that was already over roaded ?—(Hear, hear.) in the course of this discussion. We have beard from
lie had thus ventured to give his reasons for opposing the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, we
the measure of the Government, and he could not help have heard from my lion. Friend the Member for Man-
believing that the reasons he had given were founded on cheater, we have heard from the Hon. Gentleman who
the CipitilastsllCell pf the case. Lie dill this with the has just sat down, speeches of surpassing interest era

great questions affecting the destinies of this country.
(dear.) In the first place, with respect to the conduct
of the Government, I will observe my Hon., Friend the
Member for Manchester (Mr. Bright) has reproached
us—gently, indeed, but very decidedly—(Hear)—for not
having come forward in the course of the present session
with some comprehensive measure for the relief of
Ireland.—(Hear.) Now, as far as I am to bear any
blame personally, I am willing to take the blame to
myself for having used terms of that kind with a view
more to political and religious grievances than that
question which row occupies the attention of Parlia-
ment.—(Hear, heat.) But so far as the conduct of the
Government in t'a present or the past session of Par-
liament is concerned, I do not believe that the blame
which the Hon. Member for Manchester puts on us is
justly or fairly attached. I have witnessed, I confess,
with somewhat of wonder, that a gentleman of his
opinions—opinions which I think right with regard to
the provinces of legislation and government—should
have come forward to ask the Government of this
country for some more specific measures, by which the
evils of generations were to be cured, and prosperity
was to be seen produced, not by slow degrees, but pro-
ceeding at once, as it were, from the results of Par-
liamentary wisdom and
sat
geniuse—(Hear,
hear.) For my own part, alluding to a phrase on a
somewhat different subject to that which the
Hon. Gentleman who has just sat down al-
luded, I must state any own opinion of the
origin of that phrase, which had been so much
relied on by both the advocates and opponents of mea-
sures like those proposed by th e Government. A great and
able Minister had laid down miles for the exact propor-
tions of a certain web which was to be woven. The
sides were to be of a particular measure, and the length
and breadth should never exceed a certain proportion.
The Minister referred to than went on to forbid the
manufactures of other countries to enter and compete
with the manufactures of his own, and the consequence
was that the proprietors of the wrieyard. s of France cern.
plained that they could no longer exist, because there
was no demand for their produce. Having made an in-
quiry as to the cause of this state of things, and the pro-
bable remedy for it, a man of plain c,emmon sense said to
the Minister, " Do not interfere with your own manu-
factures, or the entrance of the manufactures of ot
in
hercountries into your own." On former occasions,
speaking of Ireland, I alluded to the coeldition of Eng-
land and Scotland at two different periods of the his-
tory of those countries. I quoted the writings of Sir
Thomas More, in which he described what would now
be called the summary evictions of families to a large
extent, by the landlords of the country. When the condi-
tion of the country required some consideration, Queen
Elizabeth and her council proposed a scheme by which
the property of England should be secured by their
directions, and in consequence of their legislative
schemes. One of these measures was the administration
or justice with a severity almost barbarous for the age
-it was put into operation against all malefactors, and
that reduced the country into a state of peace and order.
Having done this they likewise passed a measure by
which the infirm and impotent poor were afforded relief;
and the idle and sturdy poor set to work. And yet this
measure came to nothing more than what my Hon.
Friend alluded to as the vulgar acts of Government, and
which, he trustsd, would not be resorted to by the pre-
sent Government or the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland.
Yet England rose to the highest state of consideration
on the continent of Europe at this period, and sent her
most eminent men to visit distant parts of the globe.
—(Hear, hear.) She produced men of genius such as
Bacon and Burleigh, and in no very long time she
became a country which, by its order, and at the same
time by it; freedom, that was superior to the other
countries of the world.—(Hear.) And yet this was
done, as I have said, not by any special scheme, but by
taking care that order was so established, and relief was
so given, that there should not be
,that disturbance of
property—those assaults sgetiest the person which had
formerly prevailed, and that men might have security to
pursuo their own occupations, and thereby obtain the
fruits of their own labour and industry; for I believe
whatever may be proposed—whatever laws we may pass
from time to time—nothing„ after all, is so essential and
useful as to enable men to feel that their lives, their pro-
perties, and the fruits of their industry are secured to
them—(Hear, hear)—and that the road is open to them
to obtain those distinctions which the State offers to
them. Such was the state of England from that time
cthe present. Let me now go fur a few moments to the
t trot Scotland, when religious persecution had dis
turbed, and almost destroyed that country, in the time of
Charles H. After the revolution laws were passed by
which, without extending relief to the poor, the coun-
try, being thinly peopled, order was secured; and those
who had previously threatened, and destroyed life
throughout the country, were reduced to obedience. In
fact, measures were taken for the better education of the
people at large. By such simple remedies, within a
period of about twenty or thirty years, Scotland pre-
sented a totally different aspect—trade and industry
hegan to fl airish—agriculture, which had been pre-
viously almost wholly neglected, was seen in every val-
ley to produce the full fruits of industry, and she began
that progress which had ever since continued to pro-
duce happiness and wealth.—(Hear, hear.) Now these
were changes from a state dissimilar from yours
if you will, but I contend 'not totally dissimilar from
the present state of Ireland—changes which
had been carried into effect by such great men as Bur-
leigh, Bacon, Somers, and Shrewsbury, and some of
the wisest statesmen who had lived at that period. But
then men did not rely upon any particular specific, or
upon a scheme that could be supposed at once to give
prosperity—they relied upon the true and natural means
of legislation by which men could not be made in an
instant wealthy and prosperous, but by which full se-
curity was given to life and property, and their energies
allowed to take their own natural course.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir, I now come to what was the state of Ireland a few
years ago; and let me here observe that I think, during
the whole of this debate, but taking especially those
three speeches to which I have alluded, it has been too
Ai assumed that it would be in the power of any Go-
vernment, or any Parliament, however wise, to produce
changes which, after all, must mainly depend upon the
character and the conduct of the people themselves.—
(Hear, hear.) We know that with regard to Ireland
there have been proprietors—indeed many of them have
told me themselves what they knew had really happened
upon their own estates, and, indeed. an Hon. Member,
in the course of this adjourned debate upon Ireland,
mentioned a similar fact—many proprietors, who some
sixty or seventy years ago, had given leases for three
lives, and the persons to whom these leases had been
given, finding themselves in difficulties, underlet the
great portion, if not the whole, of the land in respect to
which they had received their leases. These farmers
again underlet the land, and thus the system of con
acre, as it was called, was established, by which a rent
of 101. or 121. per acre was often paid for it. A whole
community was thus formed, which became far more
numerous than the land could support by any cereal pro-
ducts. Consequently, these unfortunate persons were
compelled to live in a most wretched manner, always
upon the verge of famine; and yet, so long as the potato
was a successful crop, you heard but little of complaint,
except from the statistical returns that were now and again
made to the House. Now, who will deny but that this
sort of life was altogether different from that which a
civilised people would be contented with?—(Hear, hear.)
Let me give an instance of this which has been ready
referred to by the Honourable Member who seconded
thi amendment to this Bill. It relates to Ballina,
about the year 1834 or 1835. Certain witnesses having
been examined in respect to the state of the poor people
in this part of Ireland—one of them said that there were
about 100 labourers in the street one morning asking for
employment, scarcely any one of whomiwas possessed of
sufficient strength, from the want of food, to perform any
of the work for which he craved. Another witness said
that the labourers, after having deg the potatoes for the
farmers who hired them, purposely left many of them in
the ground, which :they afterwards tdug up privately
for themselves, thereby defrauding their employers of
some of their property. Another witness stated that the
labourers who were thus employed lived upon one meal
only in the day, often remaining full 24 hours together
before they obtained another meal.—(Hear.) But they
all agreed in saying it was folly to talk of individual
cases, for nothing could describe the wholesale wretched-
ness which existed. Now, this is what has occurred in
what might be considered the prosperous times of Ire-
land in Ballina and other places, where complaints were
scarcely ever heard of the wants of the people. Let me
then ask you, it there had been no interference on the
part of this House and the Government—if the people
who were living thus contented had been left altogether
without any aid or interference from us—what would
be the result? I hear it said, and often repeated, that
the aid which we have given—first by the assistance of
the state, and afterwards by the extension of the poor-
law—has been demoralising to the people! Demoralis-
ing is no doubt an admirable phrase! It is an admirable
phrase for passing by on the other side, and taking no
notice.—(Hear, hear.) But, Sir, if we had not so inter-
fered, the people wculd not certainly have been demo-
ralised—they would be dead.—(Hear, hear.) Well, then,
how did we relieve them? Iu the first ,instance, our
plan of relief came entirely from the state. It was, how-
ever, obvious, that if we attempted to go on with that
scheme, in the first place, Parliament would have natur-
ally presumed that Ireland ought to support her own poor
and destitute.—(Hear.) And, indeed, dove continued to
grant this assistance we could not sa that any of these re-
sources applied by the state would have been lavishly
expended, or that there would notnhoatvebeen the greatest
abuses in the administration of t
did we du? We proposed that re(l).isef means. What,. then,
Nowe should. be given by
the. extension of the poor-law.
poor-law, it is to be considered that it regard to the
law not only
of humanity for the sake of relief, but alssoa
for.the sake of,security. All persona wheah aw
porfoppoelriclye
considered' tbe, eifeets, elf the poor-law in this
ethat the security of Eng.laVehsts: very much udneptreyadsa
upon that one provision which we ha*.ttßadesea
no person should have a right to wanderina'begebut te
give relief to all those a ho were in want of it, and to
employment for those that were able to work for their
then, that is the case of England, I think we
have a right to expect that in the course of time the

poar-law will produce the same eff.cts in Ireland.—
bear.) Every oce complains of the multitude of beggars,
scmetitnes of marauders, that are going out from the
purlieus of the towns, stealing and destroying the pro-
perty of the country. Now, if the poor-law be at all
sacient i:s purpose, it must in a great degree
remedy this evil. We must consider it, then, to
be the foundation for the peace and order of the
country. But we are told that the extension of the
pcor.law in 18.17 should not have been enaCted,Vd that
at all events we ought now to go back to the principle
of the measure of 1838. Sir, it has been my fortune to
have introduced both of those laws, and but for the
calamity of the loss of the potato crop, I confess I should
not have been disposed to introduct, the extended poor-
law of 1847. We cannot, however, venture to make any
Redden step for the purpose of replacing ourselves in our
original position. It has been given in evidence before
the Poor-law Committee now sitting, that upwards of

360,000 persons, not belonging to the able-bodied, but
belonging to the infirm poor, received relief in the month
loafwJ.enlutariys
elvaisdt,enutndthear
tth ito
wporoovldisihoonsimopf tohsesipoireesteonvtopooA,
workhouse;these 360,000
a,
Ili
an
I thinkaddition toth a thet h 200,0000.
person, o
whatever
hlilaht e the
ghptvinenoitpelretaion.f utpohoon
law—would
wgeonaeldra
gyo—smo
respectepihieh s tohe tmhei
thisha
infirm
relief
poor
tor
Ireland. And
withdrawn
if
far
rmas thtoosesay36toh,aotooi
these were t en
be
numbers
s in
greatere in July.
n ua r y,
we may
appears
I pcalculateersto
that they will h
suchvast workhouse
as
lachceolmievmeo,diantion
as the
me impossiblewopresenutlmdiseeorhabttaoliehmstatakhteiesof Ireland, that it will be utterly
impossible to restrict relief to the ;workhouse. The
Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, in
touching upon this point, said, he considered that the
workhouse was the best test of destitution. I under-
stood the Right Hon. Baronet to say that we ought to
go back to that test, but that we ought not to do so sud-
denly.—(Hear, hear.) He also said that we ought to
employ the able-bodied upon the public roads, or in some
works of a similar character. Now these opinions of the
Right Hon. Baronet appear to me to be totally at
variance. The whole theory upon which we proceed
in giving poor-law relief is to endeavour that no per•
son should obtain relief, except the utterly destitute
who cannot obtain food or means in any other way.
The labouring poor would much prefer to work under
public bodies than under any private individual, for they
well know that there would not be the care or vigilance
manifested in seeing the work well done under the for-
mer employment, that there would be under the latter.
The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last gave us an instance
of the improving landlord being charged a much higher
rate than others when he availed himself of the money
advanced by the Government for such improvements.
Now that, I quite admit, would be a fit subject upon
which to take evidence, and that those who make such
improvements should not be charged with the additional
rate. lam ready to admit there ought to be a maximum
amount of rate, upon which point it will be my duty at
a subsequent stage to submit a proposition to the
House. lam ready to admit that the electoral divisions
in the south and west are too large in extent—that the
area is too large—that the population is too great, and
that a better and more economical management would
be obtained—that more union and harmony would be
the result if the electoral divisions were reduced to a
smaller size. These are changes that may be well in-
troduced. I come next to the subject of emigration, to
which the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam-
worth referred. I think it very possible for poor-law
guardians and for the state to assist emigration from
some of these overcrowded districts,where there was little
or no hope of the people being able to find sufficient em-
ployment. I have always contemplated some assistance
of that kind in the present session. But Ido not agree
with the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth
in thinking that there is little or no force in the objec-
tion that a large plan of emigration would discourage the
attempts of individual proprietors, and the system of vo-
luntary emigration. I ask the House to consider what
that voluntary emigration in a great part is. Several
Irish Members are fond of representing it as an emigra-
tion entirely composed of farmers of small means, which
they carry with them, and thus deprive Ireland of a large
amount of capital. But a great portion of that emigra-
tion is conducted by capital sent from North America to
persons in Ireland by their relations and friends, many
of them of the poorest class, to enable them to emigrate.
Some Gentlemen have shown me a return from mercan-
tile houses in this country, showing the sums of 20s. and
upwards sent over to this country, and the whole amount
omitting the sums remitted through the house of Baring
and Co. for the same purpose, was, in one year,
no less than 460,000/. That is nearly half a million.
Now, if the Government had proposed such a sum for
emigration it would have appeared a most munificent
vote; and yet such an amount had been sent in sums of
20s. and upwards from parsons in the United States and
Canada to friends in Ireland for the purposes of emi-
gration. And I feel no doubt—knowing the disposition
in Ireland to rely on the state—knowing how dangerous
ground we tread whenever we give assistance from the
state—if we said we should give a million or half a
million for emigration—that a great portion of the sum
sent over to assist individual emigration would be stopped
by that announcement, and that such a grant would
merely operate as a substitute for the sums expended in
voluntary emigration. If this be so, we should not
adopt iny general plan of emigration. In so speaking,
I wish to guard myself against saying that there may
not be particular cases in which assistance may be
granted. The very Bill before us contains provisions
that sums may be applied by the Treasury for the pur-
poses of emigration. I approach now with great doubt
and diffidence that part of the subject upon which
the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth has
twice given his opinion to the House. I cannot but re-
collect the long experience which the Right Hon.
Baronet has bad with regard to Ireland. I remember
when ,not many years after I came into Parliament—l
think in 1816-1 heard a speech from the Right Hon.
Baronet, in which he described the state of Ireland, its
factions, and parties. It was a most able and instructive
speech. I believe from that time to the present the
Right Hon. Baronet had never ceased to give his
anxious attention to the affairs of Ireland, and that he
has devoted his great abilities to the consideration of the
remedies required for that country.—(Cheers.) I there-
fore speak with the utmost respect of any plan of the
Right Hon. Baronet. If I have any doubts with regard
to that plan, these doubts I readily admit may arise from
my misapprehension of the plan itself and its details.
Having said this, Sir, I must express a doubt whether
there would be any great advantage in having a com-
mission for the special purpose of disposing of questions
relating to lands in the west of Ireland. It appears
to me that such a commission must be of one or two
kinds. It must either hare a compulsory power, or it
must be of a volantarily nature. With regard to its
compulsory character the Right Hon. Baronet had given
an instance of the plan he would adopt in the plantation
of Ulster in the reign of James I. Now, there is an
obvious difference between that case and the present. In
that case the land was at your disposal, and the people
were not on the land. In the present case the land is
not in your disposal, and the people are on the land.—
(Hear, hear.) It appears to me, therefore, impossible
to use the powers of James I.'s commission. At that
time the land was forfeited to the Crown, and at its dis-
posal. But you could not say to any one individual that
had so misused his power as a proprietor—that had
abused his trust—that his land should be forfeited. To
give any commission such a power in the present day
would, I imagine, be quite impossible. With regard to
the plan I proposed three years ago, though it might not
be advisable to adopt it, it would at least serve for a
foundation, because I proposed that any land to be taken
should be waste land under a certain value, and not ex-
ceeding 2s. 6d. an acre of yearly rent. I proposed it
should be sold, or let on long leases, and that persons
should be brought in to cultivate it. But, without some
compulsory power of that kind, it appears to me you
would get into the greatest difficulties. Supposing the
State were to purchase the land with all its mortgages,
you would hare, in the first place, to consider whether the
land was not mortgaged beyond its value. You might
have to pay mortgagees who had never any hope of get-
ting payment; and with regard to the population, you
would find either that you would have to pay large sums
for poor-rates or for the purposes of emigration. Now,
consider the extent of Connaught and the number of its
population, and then imagine the difficulty of taking
possession of it by means of a commission responsible
far the safety and welfare of the many thousands of its
inhabitants.--(Hear, hear.) I own it appears to me, so
project
prudenwee which I do
far as I have considered it, to be a
net see how the State can with an
carry out. From part of the plan of the Riegrhteaiflenety
Baronet I understand it to be his intention to tacirtate
.
contracts for the purchase of lands between persons who
had lands to sell and others willing to buy. In that
respect it appears to are the commission would cause
great disappointment. It is impossible such a plan
could bo passed for Ireland without raising great hopes,
without exciting expectations of some great result.
And if such a commission were merely to ask indivi-
duals to sell on contract of sale, it is obvious, I fear,
that it would only lead to failure and general disap-
pointment. Such appear to me to be the difficulties
in tho way of it.—(Hear.) But the Right
Hon. Baronet touched on another subject nearly
connected with the present, and with regard to which
the Hon. Member for Manchester had spoken to-night.
I think Parliament may be able to effect something on
that subject, I mean with regard to the laws which in
many cases encumber and prevent the transmission of
property.—(Lear, hear.) No doubt this is a subject to
be dealt with in a manner so as to ensure justice to all
parties. It is impossible to enter on that subject with
any other determination than to allow the just rights of
every person to be regarded. It might happen, and it is
no uncommon case, that a landed proprietor leaves his
estate to his eldest son, who dies. The second son sue.
ceeds, but he in all probability has gone to India, to
North America, or it may be he is in the navy, and
at a distance.—(Hear, hear.) The occupier of the
estate, the life-tenant, might be an old man, quite
willing to part with his interest in the estate, and
willing for an annuity to give up his title •, but you
could not take the title, and the law would not trans-
mit the estate unless the claims of those in right of
succession were considered. But that is not to be done
without a good deal of expense and delay; because such
a case would relate to property and to persons at a
distance. But then the Right Hon. Baronet said that
in such a proposition as be had made he would include
a court of appeal. Now, I ask, if you are to have a
court that is to hear these cases of rights of property,
and from whose decisions there is to be an appeal, whe-
ther, after all, the expense would be less or the proceed •
ings more expeditious than they are now ? With
regard to the Court of Chancery, I do believe that
,many.of its-rules, with respect tn.ithe sale of property,
d 4ith respect to the consideration of claims and
1101 W; are too curiously framed for the purpose of
eutirding against injury to remote heirs. It was with
pleasure. therefore, that I heard the suggestions of the Right lion. Baronet on this point, and I do hope that
we
maybe able to amend the Act of last session with
respect
to it. If the court itself be an evil, my belief is
that
it is not an evil so
peocfuliarly:puresbtsing, and when I
am told that the Act
believe it bas not Leen froula:t session is a failure, I
for many are anxious to sell"
I
estates
think,
because
thereoa.lssaantdo f o ry render
sale,
aSnair, in the first
been no such demand for
the application of it general.
place, with regard to the poor-law
connected with it, our object ought other laws
make the estates a good purchase hem.erntse be to
come into the market to buy t Thatw inn"
opinion, would be much more important than to facilitma e -
the mode of sale.—(Hear, hear.) There, are, no-doubtt
many Gentleman in Ireland who some few years ago
derived some hundreds, or perhaps, some thousands a
year from their landed property in that country, who
would at the present moment gladly part with that pro-
perty at a low price (Hear, hear.) That is an unfor.
tunas° state of things. J3ul I treat that when the state

of Irel: And becomes somewhat better, we shall be enabled
to ado. pt a plan by which we can facilitate the transfer
of enct imbered property which the present proprietors
are w• illing to sell to men who possess capital and
energy . and who are willing to embark them
in pr ,Iperty in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) I am,
howevez persuaded, that any such plan must be con-
ducted with all due regard to the rights of property—
those rights must not be violated in any degree, because
any violation of them would create a want of confidence
in those who might be inclined to purchase.—
(Hear.) They would naturally be alarmed for
the future preservation of their rights.—(Hear.) Sir,
the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last alluded to the pro-
posal which her Majesty's Government are about to
make for the assistance of one of the railroads in Ire-
land, and be congratulated himself that a plan which
was brought forward two years ago by the late Lord
George Bentinck, and which at the time was opposed by
the Government, is now about to be introduced piece-
meal by us. Now, Sir, I beg of the Hon. Gentleman to
recollect that the original plan for the assistance of rail-
roads in Ireland was drawn up by the Government of
Lord Melbourne, and was introduced into this House by
Lord Morpetb, when he was Secretary for Ireland. We
intend to propose that there shall be au advance of money
made to assist certain railroads in Ireland, to promote
arterial and other drainage, and also to improve landed
property in that conntry ; and that a sum not exceeding
1,000,0001. shall be granted for the whole of these three
purposes. Sir, we have always been of opinion that the
introduction of the poor-law in its original shape into
Ireland was most desirable, and that employment should
be stimulated. And although a sum of 1,600,0001. has
been applied for that purpose, yet it is still desirable
and necessary that some further aid of that kind should
be given.—(Hear, hear.) A description of such aid is
conformable to the principle which has been adopted
by former Governments, and has met with the sanctio❑
of the House.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, there are other mea-
sures which we intend to propose for the relief of Ireland:
but at this late hour of the night I will not trouble the
House by referring to them. I feel very sensible that
nothing I have said—that no plan I have introduced—
that no general plan I have proposed will satisfy those
who ask for some large and comprehensive scheme to
redress the evils which exist in Ireland; but I must sub-
mit to the House that many of the schemes for redress
proposed are wholly beyond the reach or power of any
Government to effect.—(Hear, hear.) With regard
to the question which I believe lies at the root of
these evils— I mean the cultivation of the potato--
that speeies of vegetable upon which the poor
place so much reliance for food in small patches of
land, I will only say that when the landlords,
the tenants, and the labourers were all combined
to divide the land into small patches, however the Go-
vernment might lament such a course of proceeding,
neither the Lord Lieutenant nor the S-cretary of State
bad the power of preventing it.—(Hear, hear.) And
even lately I have said repeatedly in this House that re-
liance upon the potato crop—which is a most precarious

one, because it cannot 132 depended on for mire than a
single year for food, was most unwise on the part of
the Irish people ; and that they should look for
something better. But even at -the present, time
there has been going on a great deal of po-
tato planting in Ireland, and upon the result of the
harvest will depend the weal or woe of thou-
sands of the people. By no law that we can place
on the statute book—by no power that the Lord-
Lieutenant possesses, can we prevent this system of
potato planting, and of reliance upon the crop. And
if this then be the case, I ask you to agree to a mea-
sure which will give some breathing time, and perhaps
be the means of saving from a feat ful death many who
might never see another August sun. I ask you if you
do not approve of the measure in its present state, to
sanction the principle of it, by which we may be enabled
to advance some portion of the sum—and I ask you,
above all, to rely upon no unsound principle of Govern-
ment or legislation—(Cheers)—not to believe that any
one scheme, or any measure however extensive, can re-
lieve altogether the multitude of woes which at present
afflict Ireland ; but to look at the application from time
to time of remedies adapted to the occasion, in order to
show that you feel for Ireland, and that you are desirous
of exerting yourselves to the utmost of your power to as-
sist her in her distress.—(Cheers.) I ask you to remem-
ber that we are a united kingdom, and not to think that
any misfortune can happen to Ireland without being felt
as a deep calamity by England—(Cheers.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL moved the adjournment of the
debate, amidst loud cries of " Divide" and " Go on."

Lord J. RUSSELL—I really must beg of the House
to consider that this is only the first stage of the Bill.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said it was the important stage.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was certainly the stage
upon which the principle of the measure was confirme,
but there were other stages when the measure could be
further discussed, and he hoped, therefore, that the
House would come to a decision to-night.
Lord CASTLEREAGH hoped that the Hon. Member
for Limerick would persevere in his motion for adjourn-
ment. They had heard many able speeches, but very
little about the rate in aid itself.—(Hear, hear.) He ob-
jected to the attempt of the two, parties in the House to
force the measure upon Ireland against her will.
Lord JOCELYN hoped that the House would divide
to-night, as the question could be again discussed upon
the amendment of the Hon. Member for Kerry.—(Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that if Hon. Gentlemen who
had notices on the paper for to-morrow (Tuesday) would
waive them, he would not object to the adjournment of
the debate. lie was anxious that the Bill should be read
a s, cond time before the Easter holidays.
Mr. DISRAELI hoped Hon. Members who had mo
tions on the paper would adopt the suggestion of the
Noble Lord, and postpone them.
After a levy words from the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER to the same effect,
Sir J. Y. BULLER and Mr. G. TIIOMPSON ex-
pressed their willingness to postpone their motion, hoping
other Hon. Members would do the same.

The debate was then adjourned until to•morrow (this
day).
Mr. LABOUCHERE trusted the House would allow
him to bring up the report on the Navigation Bill.
After a few remarks ;roam Captain HARRIS and
Mr. DISRAELI, the report was postponed until Wed-
nesday.
The Lords' amendments to the Out-door Paupers Bill
were agreed to.

Sir G. GREY brought in a Bill for promoting the
public health in Scotland. The provisions of the Bill, he
said, are substantially the same as those relating to the
public health in England, and the Lord Advocate was
desirous that the Bill should be printed before the recess,
in order that its provisions might be seen in Scotland.
The Bill was read a first time.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL brought in a Bill for
facilitating and better securing the due administration
of charitable trusts. The Bill which, he remarked, was
substantially the same as that of last year, was read a
first time.

On the motion of Mr. PARKER, the following Hon.
Members were nominated the Select Committee on Ex-
piring Laws:—M. Parker, Mr. Tamil, the Attorney-
General, Mr. Bernal, Mr. Ilayter, the Lord-Advocate,
Mr. Hume, Mr. Aglionby, Mr. Mackenzie, Mr. Bellew,
Mr. Greene, Mr. G. Craig, Sir G. Clerk, Mr. Hawes,
and Mr. Stafford.

The House adjourned at Half past Twelve till to•
morrow (this dsy).

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.
From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.

MONDAY, APRIL 2.
JOURNAL OF THE HOUSE.

Ordered, That the Journal of this House, from the end of
the last session :o the end of the present session, with an
Index. to the 104th volume, be printed.
Ordered, That 1,250 Copies of the said Journal and Index
be printed by the appointment and under the direction of
John Henry Lee, Esq., the Clerk of this House.
Ordered, That the Journal and Index be printed by such
person asdosphraelsloteliteoenpsreindtbthy
eMsarinSep.eaker, and that no other
0

PENINQ OF THE EXTENSION LINE FROM TEE
BLACKWALL TO THE EASTERN COUNTIES RAILWAY.—
Yesterday the fine which connects the Blackwell with
the Eastern Counties Railway, was opened for the con-
veyance of passengers from the terminus in Fenchurch-
street. The new viaduct passes over arches, the junc-
tion with the Blackwell Railway taking place in the
Commercial•road, opposite Salmon-lane. That with the
Eastern Counties being formed at a short distance on
this side of the Stratford station, passing over the new
extension of railway from the East and West India
Docks to the North-Western at Camden Town, which
is very far advanced, and which also passes under the
Eastern Counties. On the line leaving Blackwell, it tra-
verses the Commereial-road, across which is an Immense
massive iron bridge, consisting of one span. By the
formation of this new line, passengers can be conveyed
from the terminus at Fenchurch-street, to all towns in
connexion with the Eastern Counties, and when the line
is formed to Camden Town, to all towns in connexion
with the North- Western.

ROUT OF THE SEIKII ARMY.—An extraordinary.
Gazette, published yesterday, contains the official dis-
patch received at the India House from the Governor
of Bombay in Council, directed to the Secret Committee
of the East India Company, dated Bombay, March 4,
1849, 5 P.M., containing the notification of tho rout of
the army of Shero Singh, which appeared in The Sun of
yesterday. _ _

- THE HOP DUTY POSTPONED.—The Sussex Express
of Siterday says:—" We have just received the im-
portant intelligence from our indefatigable Member,
Mr. C. H. Frewen, that the Government have re-
solved on postponing the payment of the hop duty
from May until after the next hop-picking is over.
We are sure that our readers in the Weald will re-
joice at this announcement; and we are confident that,
in their name, we may thank the Hon. Member for his
exertions in this matter throughout the struggle, and,
finally, for the promptitude with which, though se-
riously unwell, Mr. Frewen hastened to relieve the deep
anxiety of his constituents by communicating this wel-
come intelligence. _

THE BRISTOL MURDER.—The ill-fated prisoner,
Sarah Thomas, maintains the same indifferent bearing
in the gaol as she did before the finding of the verdict—
eating, drinking, and sleeping well, and apparently quite
insensible of her awful situation. When she says sly-
thing, it is to declare, that she is suffering for others.
The mother, Ann Thomas, has been committed by the
coroner, for want of sureties, to give evidence on the
trial; and the girl Sullivan still remains in 13ridewell,
with the same object.
THE LIVERPOOL MURDERS.—The coroner's
_in-
quest on the bodies of Mrs. Henrichson and her two
children closed at eight o'clock yesterday evening. The
jury, without hesitation, returned a verdict of " Wilful
murder"
against the prisoner, John Gleeson Wilson.
THE ARMY.—Orders have been issued for the e
de-
pots of the 64th and 83d R
giments to embark at Cork
for Chatham
on the sth of this Month; and for the
depot of the 70th,
to embark on the 12th for the same
destination.

TIM LEGAL TITLE ASSURANCE
COMPANY.
(Provisionally Registered, January 17, 184 i..)
Capital, 2,000,00 C/., in 80,000 Shares, 01 251. each.
Preliminary Deposit, 2s. 6d. per Share
Prospectuses and full information may be obtained at the Tempo-
-ay Orces of the Company, 13A, Catmon- row, Westminster, on ap-
licatltd to

G. F. HOWE, Hon. Sec., pro tem.

NOTICE,

NEW STORY OF THE SEA, BY TIIE AUTHOR OF " THE
PILOT," " RED ROVER," &c.
Now ready at all the Libraries, in 3 vols. post Bvo.,
T H SE A LI 0 N S;
Or, THE LOST SEALERS.
By J. FENIMORE COOPER.
Author of "The Pilot," "Jack O'Lantern," "Pathfinder," &c.
Richard Bentley, New Burlington-street,

HER MAJESTY'S THEATRE.
MDLLE. LIND.
It is respectfully announced that a Series of SIX CONCERTS
will be ,given at Tier Majesty's Theatre, comprising the following
3peras :—The Flauto Magico of Mozart; Oberon, Der Freyschutz,
and Euryanthe, of Weber ; La Nectate and Fernand Cortez of
Spontint ; and Fidello of Beethoven; which will be sung by Mdlle.
Lind and the principal Singers of the Establishment, accompanied by
a full Orchestra and Chorus. The dates and particulars will be duly
announced.

The Subscribers are respectfully informed that they will have the
option of including any number of these Concerts in their Season's
Subscription.

The First Concert will take place on Thursday, April 12,

ASTLEY'S ROYAL AMPHITHEATRE.
proprietor, Mr. W. Batty.
under the Patronage of her Majesty the Queen, his Royal. Highnois
Prince Albert, &c.
THIS EVENING,
And Wednesday, and Thursday,
GRAND EQUESTRIAN FETES, when the Theatre will close on
Thursday Evening for the production of a Grand Equestrian Spec-
tacle, on Easter Monday.
Box-orrice open from Eleven till Five.
Stage Manager, Mr. W. West.

THE WEATHER.—Stm OFFICE, APRIL 3.
THERMOMETER, Lowest, 35: Highest, 54; Noon, 48,
BAROMETER, 29.63.

WIND variable from W.S.W. to W.N.W.—dull weather

MOH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE.
Tine DAY °ming, 32 min. after 10 i Eveninv, 14 min. after 11
To-Moanow—
Morning, 49 min. after '1 1 I Evening, 0 lain. after 0

I s °N.
WUXI' 114 'Ptt t
LONDON, TUESDAY, APRIL 3, 1849.

The debate on the second reading of the Rate in
Aid Bill was list night resumed and again adjourned,
on the understanding,thowever, that the several mo-
tions standing for this evening should be postponed,
in order that a division might be taken on the prin-
ciple of the measure before the Easter holidays. We
should, perhaps, rather have stated the debate to have
been on the statesmanlike and comprehensive sugges-
tions of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam-
worth, for the question nominally before the House was
but partially alluded to, while every speaker directed
his chief arguments to the new elements introduced
into the discussion by the ex-Premier. The rate
in aid itself, is at best but a temporary measure,
not put forward as one of those great remedial enact-
ments,the necessity whereof is admitted on every side.
It is acknowledged that in several unions the local
resources are completely exhausted, that the unfortu-
nate inhabitants must perish miserably unless extra-
neous aid is afforded. From whence then is
that aid to be received? From what source
is the requisite relief to be afforded ? It
can only be from the Imperial Exchequer, or from
a rate levied upon the more solvent parts of Ireland ;
and for many reasons the latter appears at the same
time more equitable and more expedient. The people
of England feel that they have a right to demand a
separate and independent exertion on the part of Ire-
land. They have already bestowed what they were
but ill able to afford. They have comtributed freely
and liberally to the wants of their Irish
brethren, and they do not regret their benevolence,
although they have themselves experienced many
bitter sufferings from the enormous expenditure.
It is time that the Irish should do something
for themselves, and when they exhibit a desire
to do so we will gladly assist their meritorious efforts.
It is, however, asserted by the opponents of the
present Bill that the poverty of Connaught has no
claim :upan the wealth of Ulster ; that western
indolence is not to be a burden on northern industry;
that
.if the limits already assigned for the purpose
are to be exceeded, if the areas of taxation
are to be at all extended, that the deficiency, what-
soever it may be, must be provided from a general
fund—that the calamity must be regarded as im-
perial, and that the burden should consequently fall
upon the national Exchequer.
be some weight in this
argument Tre e
Ireland
wewere
subjected to the same
bur-
dens in every respect that press with such peculiar
weight upon. this country. She is, however, ex•
empted from the income-tax, although the possession
of 1501. a year on the other side of St. George's Channel
will ensure the enjoyment of greater comforts than can
be obtained here for the same amount. The assessed
taxes are unknown ; the land-tax has no existence ;
the duty on MA' whisky is scarcely one-Third of
that which is leVied on British gin. In fact, the
people are peculiarly favoured in fiscal matters ; and
it is rather too ,bad, when enjoying so many valuable
privileges and exemptions, that they should consider
themselves aggrieved by being called upon to raise a
sixpenny rate far the relief of their distressed brethren.
They cannot, however, blow hot and cold. If they
are spared the income-tax as Irishmen, they cannot
repudiate the responsibility of providing for Irish
distress, in whatever province or division of Ireland
it may be discovered. They must either accept the
liberal offer now made, or assent to a perfect assimi-
lation of the fiscal burdens in both countries. Their
only alternative is, the rate in aid for a limited
period, or the income•tax permanently. They have
not as yet experieneed the blessings of the latter, or
they would not have much difficulty in forming their
choice.

The propositions of Sir ROBERT PEEL are, how-
ever, of a very different character. They are pointed
not towards the temporary wants of the people, but
to the permanent and lasting amelioration of their
condition—the elevation of their country in the
scale of nations. They are mainly directed against
the monster-grievance of the country—the. fountain
and origin from which all her sufferings have pro-
ceeded. The Right Honourable Gentleman per-
ceives that there can be no hope for the
country so long as it remains in the hands of
an embarrassed and insolvent proprietary, unable to
improve their- estates, to give employment to the
people, or, in fact, to discharge any of the duties in-
cidental to property. Advances of money to landlords
may be productive of some slight advantage ; em-
ployment may be given and improvements effected
that otherwise would not be attempted, but the bene-
ficial results will be limited to the amount
of the Government aid, and when that
is expended matters will speedily fall into
their former course, the old system will again
prevail, and new demands will be made, which must

be responded AG by new loans, perhaps by new
grants. The middle-man system has been justly
regarded as one cf the chief curses of Ireland. There
is little practical difference between an embarrassed
proprietor and -a middle-man ; both endeavour to
increase their* present income by every possible
means, to extort the highest possible amount from
the occupiers without in any degree looking to the
permanent improvement of the lands, or the welfare
of its inhabitants.

The eloquent and witty Member for Buckingham-
shire, in the course of his very able speech last night,
considered that it would be unjust to give Parlia-
mentary titles to estates in the distressed part of the
country. lie truly stated that by simplifying the titles
and affording every facility for the easy transfer of
land, would improve its value by no less than eight
or nine years' purchase. And he asked, "Is the pro-
vident landlord—not the insolvent, but the skilful pro-
prietor, to be placed at a disadvantage in the market?"

This would be a great objection, but what necessity is
there for limiting the operation of the law to estates
in Connaught ? Why should not titles be simplified
throughout the entire of Ireland, aye, and in this
country also ? The vast advantages resulting from
the establishment of "a free trade in land" have been
repeatedly pointed out. The evils of the restrictive
system—of the entails and settlements—by which
the free transfer of real property is impeded, are no
less injurious in England than in Ireland.
We have, however, been able to struggle against it in
this country, while in Ireland it has inyviTed the

inhabitants in ruin, and reduced them to their pre-
sent miserable condition. Give facilities, therefore,
for transf'erring land as freely and easily as money in
the public funds, and you will materially improve the
condition and prospects of all classes in both coun-
tries, and you will avoid the practical injustice which
Mr. DISRAELI so forcibly pointed out.
We cannot conclude our notice of this interesting
debate without alluding to the advice tendered by the
Hon. Gentleman at the conclusion of his brilliant
oration, advice so beautifully illustrated. He pointed
out the fatal consequences of the mutual feuds and
misunderstandings that have unfortunately prevailed,
and which should forthwith and for ever be consigned
to oblivion. The interests of both countries are the
same. Why should they be disunited ? Why should
there be any distinctions ? As the Hon. Gentleman
pertinently inquired—

" Who has a better claim to our sympathy than that
country so long united and so intimately connected with
us? We must terminate the petty and traditional mis-
conceptions which hare prevented us hitherto from co-
operating together. Ireland will then he like the Patri-
arch who, after struggling with the mystic wrestler till
the setting of the sun, thought that he was striving
against his oppressor, but at last found that instead of
au oppressor, it was his guardian angel."

Since the memorable day when to the assembled
Peers and Paladins of the Empire the astounding
announcement was made " OnsoN is endowed with
reason," never bath grave assembly of senators been
so "frighted from its propriety" as were the assem-
bled Peers of England last night by the equally
astounding, but more solemn, announcement made
by the Earl of ABERDEEN, with undertaker-like
countenance and in 0. Smrru-like tones, " I attempted
a joke." Had the Bishop of EXETER proposed to
dance the Highland fling upon the table—had the
Lord Chancellor, balancing the mace upon the tip
of his nose, exclaimed 6' Tup-pence more and up goes
my wig"—had Lord MON TEAGLE denounced the Shan-
non improvement job—or Earl GREY moved a vote
of censure on the Ministry for disposing of Van-
couver's Island to the Hudson's Bay Company, their
Lordships could not have been more astonished.
They looked first at one another ; and then, casting
their eyes upon the gaunt figure, surmounted by the
heavy features,—

" Ne'er yet illumined by a smile,"—
which stood before them, seemed each to " mentally
ejaculate," like one of Mr. AINSIVORTH'S heroes,
" What a joker!" The attempt had been made for
some minutes before their Lordships became aware
of its perpetration. Lord ABERDEEN was, to all appear-
rance3, pompous and witless as usual, and had he not
solemnly propounded the charge against himself and
then pleaded guilty to it, their Lordships would never
have imagined that he had been, to use the phraseo-
logy of his ain canny country, " so far left to himself."
Yet so it is, and if future historians " write our annals
true," they will record that the Right Honourable
the Earl of ABERDEEN, ci-devant head clerk to M.
GUIZOT, now ombre Chinoise of Count COLLOREDO,
did, in the presence of the assembled Peers of Eng-
land, in the year of grace one thousand eight hun-
dred and forty-nine, on the morrow of All-fools,
attempt a joke. "If France, my Lords," said
the Earl of ABERDEEN, " wishes to interfere to
preserve the integrity of Piedmont, in GOD'S
name let France interfere alone." We have Lord
ABERDEEN'S
_word for it that this was intended as a
joke, and therefore we are bound to accept it as such.
But then the question arises whether my Lord ABER-
DEEN has not been all his life long like Mr. SHANDY'S
bull, deceiving the lieges by perpetrating jokes with
a serious face. In 1828 he suffered Russia to take
possession of the mouths of the Danube—without in-
terference—without protest—that was a joke. In
1830 he suffered CHARLES X., in compliance with his
secret treaty with Russia for reducing the power of
Great Britain, to take possession of Algiers—that was
a capital joke. In 1843 he signed the "Ashburton capi-
tulation"—that was an excellent joke ; and in 1846 he
consented to the Oregon treaty, and gave up a consider-
able portion of the north-west coast of America,
" where gold is found "

" Foro gad that was a more excellent joke than t'other."
But in the meantime the interests of England are
sacrificed to the solemn facetiousness of the travelled
Thane; and

" If chance his patrons should restore
Unto the sway they forreited before,"
we trust that even the Tories will have too much
English spirit to afford this superannuated joker an-
other opportunity of acting in his vocation
as Sacrificer-General of the interests of
Great Britain. They have among their supporters
many a better man to whom they could entrust the
seals of the Foreign-office. My Lord ELLENBO-
ROUGH has twice his knowledge of foreign affairs,
ten times his eloquence, and twenty times his tact—
and as for spirit, Lord. ELLENBOROUGH is a thorough
Englishman, whilst my Lord ABERDEEN has as much
spirit as a washerwoman's last cup of tea before she
has put the gin in it. One, and that not the least of
the recommendations of the Earl of ELLENBOROUGH
is, that he does not even pretend to understand the
weary witlessicisms of this would• he " old Joe" of
the House of Lords.

ROTO-VERTICAL PRINTING MACHINES.
TO THE EDITOR OF TUE TIMES.
Sir,—Since the notice in the Times of the prize offered
for a machine to print 10,000 copies of a newspaper with-
in an hour, so many letters and applications have been
made to me as to the capability of a machine constructed
according to my patent, that I shall esteem it a great
favour if you will allow me a short space in your paper
to explain what may be expected from it, in case Mr.
Moreton's bequest should prove a reality.
The daily practice at the Times printing-office has en-
tirely dissipated the two technical objections made to the
vertical system—viz., the turning of the sheets from the
horizontal to the vertical position, and, secondly, the dis-
tribution of the ink. The mechanical advantages of a
continuous circular motion are well known, and the print-
ing of the Times paper is now generally acknowledged
to be superior to that done when the horizontal machines
were in use. As a proof of one great advantage in the
working, I have only to state that as many as 40,000
impressions of the limes have been struck off by the
machine at present in use without once brushing the type
or changing the rollers.
In the construction of a machine to print more than
10,000 copies an hour, I propose to content myself with
taking as a datum the maximum speed of the old flat
machines, viz., 1,500 strokes, or 264,000 inches, per hour.
This may be fairly laid down not as a maximum, but
as a safe and practical driving speed. A machine simi-
lar to that at the Times office, with a type cylinder of
160 inches and 10 printing cylinders arranged round
it, driven at the above rate, would strike off 16,500 im-
pressions in an hour. Now, the form of type and the
inking table are about 80 inches in length, so that an-
other form of the same size may be attached to the type
cylinder, and with an upper story of laying-on tables
added (as in use on the old machines), and a very little
alteration to make each feeding apparatus do double
duty, twice as many impressions may be made at the
same time, that is, 16,500 sheets printed on both sides on
one machine.
In the course of last summer I had a correspondence
with an eminent French printer on this subject, and
guaranteed 15,000 caries; but a severe domestic afflic-
tion on my part, and probably the state of public
affairs in Paris, prevented any final agreement. Hitherto
I have provided for printing a sheet the size of the
Times (about four feet in length and three feet wide),
but if any journal, say La Presse, which is half the size,
be taken as the standard, the produce of the machine
would be numerically doubled, 16,500 copies being ob.
tained from one form of type containing the four
pages of La Presse, while at the same time 16,500
copies of another journal would be printed from another
set of t) pe, thus making 33,000 newspapers per hour;
each impression producing the four pages of the
journals, in the same manner as the supplement to the
Times, one set of sheets being supplied from the
upper story of layers-on, and the other set from the
lower. The means afforded of making the whole cir •
cumference of the type cylinder available, by increasing
or multiplying laying-on places, is one of the great and
peculiar advantages of the vertical system.
s aet;
The machine above described is supposed to have the
type upon it in a circular form, but at the Times it was
requisite to use flat columns of type arranged as seg-
ments around the type cylinder, which rendered print-
ing cylinders of large diameter necessary to meet the
bfloa:tltiesneittisg
ooff tt)h,eposewgemreenints.adeTrheeadty a
akintg off a m
of sheets required more space than could be allowed
and also such a machine could not be set to work unless'
the double set
it was, therefore, judged better to incur the great ex-
pense of two machines rather than to combine both in
one.—l remain, Sir, very respectfully yours,
AUGUSTUS APPLEGATEL

Dartford, March 31.

ALARMING ACCIDENT.--A very serious accident
nearly occurred to the High Sheriff for the county of
Monmouth (J. Herbert, L
the Judges to Monmouth to q), for on going to escort
open the assizes, the
horses, driven four in-hand, started, became unmanage-
able, and ran away. The carriage, with the alarmed
inmates, was hurried for a considerable distance, at a
frightful pace, through lanes, until providentially stopped
by a fallen tree, just as the destruction of the party
seemed inevitable.
THE ARCTIC EXPEDITION.—Letters can be for-
warded by the North Star to the officers and crews of the
Polar ships, if sent to the Admiralty during the present
month,

MONEY and COMMERCIAL NEWS.
CITY, QUARTER TO TIJILEE.
There was an animated market for Cotton at Liverposl
yesterday, and a good business was transacted at the full
prices of Friday last. The sales were estimated at from
7,000 to 8,000 bales, and included 6,000 American at 31/Bd. to
61/2d., 400 Pernam and Maranham at 4%d. to 514 d., 100
Egyptian at 5%,(1. to 53d., 600 Surat at n'td. to 4d., and
40 Sea Island at 9d. to 10,,5d. per lb.—ln Railway Shares a
fair amount of business was transacted, and prices had an
upward tendency. The Market closed firm.
A large Custom House seizure has been ef-
fected to-day, no less than 1,100 cwt. of manu-
factured tobacco brought over in a Dutch steamer and
ingeniously fashioned in the shape of oil- cake, among a
quantity of which it was mixed. The revenue would have
lost 9s. per cwt., and the discovery was made in a singular
manner, viz., by the olfactory nerves of the landing waiter,
who attended in the lighter, being affected in a manner to
excite his suspicion. Part of the tobacco had already been
removed to the outskirts of London.
An American merchant, doing a large business, has pub-
licly intimated his determination to go to California.
We gave exclusively yesterday, an outline of the corres-
pondence received by the Committee of Spanish American
bondholders from their agents in Mexico, and there has been
subsequently a letter received from Messrs. Schneider, of
London, stating that they have received from Messrs. Baring
the equivalent of the 500,000 dollars promised, the amount
paid over to them being 93,750/ We need hardly remark
that this will not by any means complete the divi-
dend, and it is computed that 27,0001. is needed
for the purpose, the fact being that, in consequence of the
surreptitious issues, &c., the debt amounts to more than is
perhaps generally estimated. The notion that Messrs.
Baring will take the agency is set at rest for the
present by their having paid over the sum in
hand to Messrs. Schneider; but, however this may be, we
hope that as they did some years since act in that capacity,
and rather suddenly resigned their functions, they would not
again resume them without seeing their way tolerably clear.
Great firms, like public men, should well consider their
acts, for they draw the lesser " fry" after_ them. The house
of Schneider and Co., when it can come to an arrange-
ment to pay the dividend, may regain its popu-
larity with the bondholders, who have, perhaps, after
all, no right to expect it to make advances. The
holders must look mainly to their future prospects, and
these we are not disposed by anymeans to view with feelings
of despondency. There will be no further remittances out
of duties from Vera Cruz and Tampico for dividend purposes
until May or June next, but then the 6 per cent. export
charge on silver will be accruing, and the payments on
account of the tobacco monopoly came into play last
month, and may be in part received by the next
Mexican mail. A grand point is the disposition
manifested by the Mexican Government to meet the claims
of its foreign creditors, and if; as the private accounts state,
and as there is every reason to believe, the Mexican people
are heartily sick of soldiering, and resolved to be no longer
under the domineering influence of every mock heroic
general who chooses to get up a pronunciamento in any distant
province of the Republic, its prospects will steadily improve.
' The American invasion, so far, indefensible as it may be
on the ground of right, has wrought a great change
in the habits and feelings of the Spanish population,
while it has lowered the dignity and pretensions of theboast-
ful but incompetent military leaders. A reduced tariff, a
better administration of justice, and a cessation of civil war,
may, in course of time, snake the country as flourishing as it
has lately been depressed.
Accounts of January 26th have come to hand from Rio de
Janeiro. There was not much doing in exchanges, and the
rate on London was 24%c1. The Money Market was quiet.
At Pernambuco business was dull, owing to the political
troubles that has prevailed.
The steamer America has arrived with the United States
and: Canada mails. Letters are not yet delivered, but the
tenor of the news per express is considered favourable by our
merchants in respect to trade prospects.
It would be difficult precisely to state on what ground the
speculators for a fall in the Funds are at present operating.
We are promised a good revenue return; cheering accounts
have been received from India; the Dee has brought a large
amount in specie; and Lords Lansdowne and Palmerston
last night answered, in most satisfactory terms, a
host of frivolous gestions, put for no object but
to cast odium on our foreign policy. Add to
this the buoyancy of the Paris Money Market,
the unaided arrangement between Radetzky and the new
King of Sardinia, and there remain but two causes for sus-
pense—the Danish and German empire questions. We may
be over-sanguine, but we certainly trust yet in a pacific so-
lution, and anticipate a revival of that confidence which
recent events have tended to impair. In the meantime
Consols are very flat, being 92% % for transfer,
and 92% to 3jt for time. The latest bargains have been at
92%. Exchequer-bills are 423. to 455. premium. India
Stock has been at 2sB. There have been one or two money
sales in Consols, and some of the speculators are realising
II
profits.

Very little has been done in Foreign Stocks, and the dis-
appointment felt by some of the operators in Mexican has
caused a decline to 31 and 30%. The dealings are, how-
ever, extremely limited. Spanisu Five per Cents, have been
16% to 17, and the Three per Cents. 30) %. Portuguese
Four per Cents. bring 284. Danish Scrip has been done at
714 premium, being lower on account of the reports that
the war will be re-commenced. Dutch Four per Cents. have
been 77% to 78.
Railway Shares are steady, but, as the business is smaller,
lower prices have been submitted to in several instances.

o.Nt.. owt...ING
l'lty_•Ets Or ,niTiSII FUNDS. O'CLOCK PRICE S
3 per Cent. Consols Annuities 921/25A004 9234
Long Anne. to expire Jan. 1860
India Stock
India Bonds, 1,0004 ...... •• 55
Ditto under 1,00411. . ........ ...... 52
Consols for Account.. 92%3/43041 923,4 India Stock for Account, — 246
I::xenequer Bills. IlAd. & 2d.
1,0001. June
5001. June
•'•••••• 42 45 p
Small. June 42 p
PRICES OF FOREIGN FUNDS. OWE
O'CLOCK.

42 p
45 p
42 p

Brazilian Bonds
Buenos Ayres Bonds, 6 Der Cent 39 40
Danish Bonds, 1825, 3 per Cent —
Ditto, 5 per cent. Scrip, 1819.. 7% p 714 p
Mexican, 5 per Cent. 1846 —
Ditto, Account
Portuguese 5 per Cents. —
Ditto, 4 per Cent 2B ;1,1
Ditto, Account . —
Russian Bonds ...
Spanish 5 par Cent. 1840.
Ditto, Account 1674
Ditto, 3 per Cent
Dividends on the above payable in London.
French Rentes, 5 per Cent.
Exchange 2sf. 25c. 25f. 25c.
Belgian 4% per Cant
Dutch 2% per Cent., 12 Guild —
Ditto. 4 per Cent. Certificates 781% 78% x d
PRICES OF BUSINESS DONE CLOSING
ttAILWAY SHARES. PAID.AT o.rit. O'CLOCK. PRICES.
Aberdeen ... 50;;;;;...... 17% . ......... ... 171/2
ms
Suckinghahire
Caledonian
24
Do. New 10/. Pref..... 10
aester and Holyhead... 50 - """......•••. 17% Ditto, Preference
..... ...... 11%
East Anglia, 25/., L. &

CLOSIN 0
PRICES.
Foj
4U

',834
291
104

E. ancrL. and b. .. ... 25 ......
........ 314 ... ....
Do., 18/., E. & H.... 18 ...... —
D 0.,.. 31/2 -... 14 . ........ 2%
Eastern C0untie5......... ..... 20 ...... 9%2 Va . 9A3
Do. New Guaranteed
6 per Cent. .. ........ 10 ...... 11%
Ditto, Extension,s per 11
Cent., No. 1....... 6/.135. 4d.... l4
Eastern Union, Class A P
(late E. U. Shares) 25 .
Do. Scrip (6 percent.) 20 .....
..... 19% 20 ..
Nast Lincolnshire ...... 25 - ............ 281/2
Great Northern ......... 20 - 11
Do., IA2 A Deferred ... 121 4% ... .. 4%
Do., 1/2 13 6 per Cent... 7% .
Do. Extension......... 21/2 ...... 1% l%
i-;reat North of England.loo ......233
Ditto, New, 404 ........ 40
••• ...........
DDitto, ditto
itto, New, 30/
Ditto, New, 151 l4 s. .. 33 .... .... 33
Great Western 100 ..... .95 94% ......... 94%
Ditto, 14 Shares
Ditto, New 171.-
Lancashire & Yorkshire 93 .....
Do. Fifths... ................. Ditto, % Shares
... .. 35
.... 35
... 10
61/2% ............ 4‘,
Do. New, Gua.6 perct. 10
Do. (Preston & Wyre) 25
7% Leeds and Bradford 5O lOO 93 ........ ... 99
London &Blackwell l2l/2 5%
London, Brighton, and 51/2
South Coast.
London and N. Western 100 .135 136 1341/2... 1341/2
Ditto, New Quarters.. 7
Ditto, Fifths ..... .. .. 2 ...... 8'
Do. 10/. (M. & B.) C. 1 ...,.. 4% .... 4% Lon& &S. Western 5O ...... 371/2 37 L/2
51anchester,Buxton,and
b1at10ck........ ........ .. 41,x. l5
Manchester, Sheffield,
and Lincolnshire...loo -
Ditto, New 10/. Pref... 10
. ...
Midland ... ... • 100 •••••• 77 7 %
Do., do., 50/. Shares... 25 .. .. 16%7 76
t...•••
North British ....... ... 25 ...... • •-• ..
Ditto, Quarters
Ditto, Thirds .... -.. 8% .. ..
North Staffordshire . 17'

10%
761 A
16%

3%
4%

Oxford, Worcester, and 14
Wolverhampton ...... 60
Scottish Central
Shrewsbury and Birm
..... —3l
Shropshire Union -
Do., No. 1
Do., N 0.2.
Do., No. 3 ....... . 3O ...... 22 ............. .. South Wales 33 ...... 17 "' '•••• •••••
South Yorkshire, Don-

1/2- 1 4 g

161%
22

caster, and Goole ...... a...... 54. .
Wilts, Somerset, 84 ey- .......
mouth ...... ..... 45 ...... 3334
York, Newcastle, and
Berwick. .... .......... 25 .. 21% 24
Do. Newcastle Exton. 20
18 17% .....
Do. G.N.E.Preterenee 8 ... %
York and North Midland 50
...... 43 LA
Ditto, Preference ...... 10
1./0. East and West Rid-
ing Extension

5%
3334

17%
71/8
4414
8%
21%

... 22 21%

FOREIGN RAILWAYD.
Central of France (Or-
Vierzon)
East Indian:— ... 314 4l/8 4 4
Great Indian Peninsular 5
Namur and Liege
Northern of Frauce
Orleans and Bordeaux.. 7
Parts and Orleans ...... 20
Paris and Rouen 2O 21N3
Rouen and Ilavre . 2O ......
Tours and Nantes 9 ..... . 2%......... ..... 2%
MINES.
Brazilian Imperial ...... 241 h
Do. St. John Del Rey 15

LLOYD'S SHIPPING.—(THIS DAY.)
LONDON, APRIL 3.—WindS.S.W., moderate breeze and
dull hazy weather.
DEAL, APRIL 2.—Wind S.S.W. to S. and S.W.—
Arrd. 30th March, Diane (of Bordeaux), Buenos A) res,
for Antwerp; 31st March, Gladiator, Etieltsen, Porto
Rico, for Copenhagen; 2d April, Pomee, .Hall, Ma-
nilla; Amy lt9bsart, 4,lkins, Mauritius; Wallace, Lam-

pert, Callao; Gartsherrie, Ritchie, Buenos Ayres; Ellen,
Irvine, Jamaica; D'Auverune, Smith, Honduras. Arrd.
from the River, Richard Thornton,: Maxwell, Bata-
via; Sam Slick, Wallace, Gambia; Gambia, Fiddeman,
Sierra Leone; Etheldred, Ray, ditto; Champion, Doug-
Matanzas ; Wenham, Wylie, New York. Std.
Warlock, Adelaide, South Australia.
NEWPORT, APRIL 2. Sid. Timandon, Matanzas;
Soane, Portsmouth, United States.
OFF FALMOUTH, APRIL 2.—Eliza, Wylie, Buenos
Ayres, and sailed tor Antwerp.
HARWICH, APRIL 2.—The Sovereign, of Colchester,
Shields to Plymouth, was assisted into this port leaky
this morning, having been on shore on the Kentish
Knock Sand.
YOUGHAL, APRIL I.—The Cathanio, Liverpool to Pa-
lermo, got on shore on the eastern point of this harbour,
and is likely to become a wreck.
LIVERPOOL, APRIL 2.—Wind S.S.W.—Arrd. Ist,
Chusan, Rice, Valparais3 ; Emptess, Marden, Macao;
Cato, New Orleans; Herald, Auld, ditto; Eliza Mor-
rison, Finlay, Mobile; Charlotte Harrison, Mlutyre,
Charleston; Josephine, Cooeker, ditto; I. 11. Shepherd,
Ainsworth, New York. 2d, Ferris, Scott, Calcutta;
Cumberland, Paraiba; Hopewell, Newton, Maranham;
Mahaica, Jump, Demerara; James Gray, Carter, New
Orleans; Joseph Badger, Scholfietd, Mobile; Meteor,
Laurence, ditto; Mortimer Livingston, Barston, Apala-
chicola ; Catherine, Robertson, Savannah ; Triton,
Charleston ; Saranak, Julius, Philadelphia; Rosetta,
New Yolk; New World, Knight, ditto, sailed March
11. Sld. Ist, Agnes, Tampico; Patriot, Demerara;
Emma Watts, Boston; Home, St. Andrews; Regent,
Halifax ; Paragon, Montreal. 2d, Harriet Hum-
ble, Calcutta ; Agues, Sierra Leone; Cornwallis,
Halifax ; Paragon, Quebec ; Flora, Newfoundland.
The Newcastle, of Glasgow, from Liverpool to Rouen,
was spoken 29th March in lat. 50 lou. 9, with loss of
sails and leaky, pith pumps choked, and part of cargo
thrown overboard, by the Catherine, arrived here. The
Enterprise (brig), of Yarmouth, N. S. (timber laden), was
passed 14th ult., in lat. 4 lon. 44, waterlogged, and a
derelict, by the Mortimer Livingston, arrived here. A
vessel of about 150 to 200 tons, with only bowsprit
standing, was passed 31st March, between Tuskar and
Bardsey, by the same vessel. Several large icebergs
were passed sth January, in lat. 50 S., lon. 51 W.; and
another very large-one on the 7th, in lat. 47 S. lon. 46
NV., by the Chusan, arrived at this port. Off
port, the
Cynthia, Macao; Courier, New Orleans; Dibdin, ditto.
Arrd. 3d, America, Boston.
DARTMOUTH, APRIL I.—Arrd. Edward, Smidt, La
Guayra, for Hamburgb. Sld. Ist, Gazelle, Newfound-
land.

SOUTHAMPTON, APRIL 2.—Sld. Severn steamer, West
Indies.

COW
de ES, APRIL 2.—Arrd. Marianne, Brenkame, St.
Jago Cuba; Wanderer, Rose, Laguna, both for
Bremen.

PORTSMOUTH, APRIL 2.—Wind S. to W.N.W.=—Sld.
Planet, Bermuda and Jamaica since put back; Northum-
berland, New York.

MARKET NEWS.-(THIS DAY.)
EAT DI.ELIUMETS.
SMITIZFIELD.—Meadow /lay, 21 108 to 41; Clover
ditto, 31 8s to 51; and Straw, 12
load. Supply but moderate, and trade rather dull. s per
CUMBERLAND.—Meadow Hay, 21 12s to 41 2s ;
Clover ditto, 3/ 10s to 41 16s ; and Straw, 11 8s to
1/ 14s per load. A fair average supply, and a steady
demand.
WHITECIIAPEL. Meadow Hay, 21 lOs to 41 ;
Clover ditto, 31 lOs to Si; and Straw, 11 7s to 11 12s
per load. Trade dull, at the above quotations.
COLONIAL.
SUGAR.—The market for British Plantation was less ani-
mated, but holders continue very firm. Sales 245 hhds., at fully
previous rates. The public sales have comprised 4,000 bags
Mauritius, 8,670 bags Bengal, and 100 bags Madras. The
Mauritius mostly sold at 38s to 41s for mid to fine yellow, at
37s to 39s for grey, and 36s to 36s Gd for good brown ; ,the
Bengal was only partially disposed of at prices barely sup-
porting those previously current, viz., 43s to 4-s 63 for good
to fine white crystalized, and 40s to 43s for mid to tine white
Benares ; the Madras sold at 313 to 34s for mid to good
brown, being rather lower. Privately, 500 chests brown
and 120 chests white Bahia have been sold at 21s and 23s 6d
respectively, the former for refining in bond, and the
latter for exportation. At the East and West India Docks
last week there was no sugar landed. There were taken
fur home consumption 1,042 hhds 172 tierces GS barrels.
The stock in the same places is 10,088 hhds 1,445 tierces
2,109 barrels.
{COFFEE.-650 bags Plantation Ceylon sold readily in
public sale at very full prices, viz., 45s to 56s for fine fine ord
to mid colory.
Rum.—There was none landed last week at the East and
West India Docks, there were taken for home consumption
219 puns 23 hhds and exported 132 puns 11 hhds. The
stock in the same places is 19,642 puns 2,144 hhds.
RICE.-875 bags Bengal realised 9s Gd to lOs for low mid
to mid white, being moderate prices.
SALTPETRE.-450 bags Bengal sold with spirit, at the ex-
treme advance previously established, OA per cent refraction
having brought 295; but 600 barrels, 280 bags Egyptian, of
indirect import, were withdrawn for want of buyers at their
relative value.
TAnnow.—lt is estimated that there will be this season an
importation of new amounting to about the same quantity
as that forwarded last year, which, with 11,000 casks lett
over from 1848, and the large stock in England, will be a
good supply even if the home make should fall off, though at
present it is very large. P.Y.C. is now about 395, and
Town 43s per cwt.
TEA.—The deliveries last week were rather smaller, and the
market is somewhat dull.

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