The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-17 00:00:00

THE PUNJAUB.

Mr. GOULBURN, seeing the Hon. Member for the
Tower Hamlets in his place, wished to know whether it
was his intention to night to call the attention of the
House to the state of affairs in the Punj sub. According
to the notice that appeared on the paper to that effect,
as he understood it, the Hon. Member had postponed
his motion on a former day, on the ground that the papers
on the subject werelibt before the House; those papers
had not yet been laid upan the table, and ho theretore
trusted that the Hon. Member would not bring his mo-
tion on that evening.
Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE said that some of thz,
papers had been laid on the table yesterday, and the re-
mainder would be forthcoming shortly.
Mr. G. THOMPSON said' that the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite was in error as to the reasons that in-
duced him to postpone his motion to the present day; it
was not in consequence of the papers on the subject not
being before theHouse,but at the request of the Noble Lord
at the head of the Government, in order that the progress
of the Rats in Aid Dill might nut be suspended. Ile felt

bound to persevere in his motion to-night, believing that
without the papers alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentle-
man he should make out such a case R 3 would call upon
the House to interfere.—(Hear.)
Mr. G OULBURN regretted the course intended to be
pursued by the Hon. Member, as several Members would
not attend under the supposition that the motion would
be postponed in consequence of the papers not being laid
on the table of the House.

LANDED PROPERTY (IRELAND).
Mr. SADLEIR then rose, pursuant to notice, to call
the attention of the House to the legal circumstances
which unduly impede the sale of landed property in
Ireland (Hear, hear) and to those facilities
which may be safely afforded for its free transfer.
When he looked to the condition of Ireland—to the des-
titution and suffering of her people, and the patience
with which they bore those sufferings—when he
looked to the financial difficulties into which she
had fallen, when he saw injuries perpetrated upon her
under the name of charity, and a merciless poor -law—
when he looked at the sessional policy of her Majesty's
Ministers, and the spirit in which they had received
every remonstrance from Ireland, he trusted that he
might claim with confidence the generous indulgence of
the House while he called its attention to the le gal circum-
stances vs hich unduly impeded the sale of landed property
in Ireland, and those facilities which might be safely
afforded for its free transfer. Owing to the want of
proper facilities for the transfer of landed property in
Ireland, the application of capital and agricultural
science to the improvement of the land and development
of its resources was greatly impeded. He would just
call the attention of the House to one sin.
gle passage in tho report of the Commit tee
which sat in 1846, for the purpose of con-
sidering how far the burdens on land in this
country could be diminished, with the view of counter-
acting
the effects which the adoption of free trade must
for a short period have upcn the value of lauded
property. The Committee complained that the
transfer of landed property in this country was
subjected to expense by the law, which, in the opinion of
the Committee, greatly diminished the marketable
value of the land itself. Now, if such a difficulty were
felt in this country how much more disastrous must
it prove in Ireland, where land was so much en-
cumbered.--a(Hear.) It night, however, be said that
the value of land in this country bore a fair proportion
to the value of land in other countries, therefore the
depression of landed property in Ireland could not be
raced to the operation of the law which related to its
transfer. But the House must remember that Ireland
was not assimilated to the law of England.—(hear,
hear.) Mr. Pymm, in his valuable work on
ihe condition of the landed property in Ire-
land, attributed. much of the prevailing distress to the
cumbersome and eipensive machinery which attended
its transfer, while the absence of that principle,
known in this country under the name of
foreclosure," increased, to a tenfold extent,
the expense of conveying land, and of course stilt
aggravated the distress of the country. The most recent
mortgagee was compelled, for his own safety and pro-
tection, to trace and enrol tle claim of the party who
had the most remote and indefinite interest to
the property, a system which was exceedingly costly,
and subjected the transfer of the property to much
legal chicanery, and served well to extend and keep up
litigation, which could benefit no party but the law-
yers. Under the existirg system every individual who
bad or had ever had a remote or indirect interest in
the property, had to be brought before the
Court of Chancery in Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
The whole subject-matter with reference to the sale of
an estate was referred to the Master's office, where it
became the subject of unprincipled litigation, and thus
an amount of expense fully equal to 30 per cent. upon
the selling value was entailed upon the proprietor.
There were several instances of as many as 180 charges
being preferred and filed in one suit, and each of those
charges was analagous to a small bill in equity. How-
ever small the demand of a creditor might be, it was im-
possible for the Master to take legal cognizance of the
debt, unless it was placed under his notice by way of a
charge and discharge. In fact, the success of the
apparitor depended upon the ingenuity and skill of his
lawyer in taking advantage of every technical objection,
with the view of postponing the day of the sale. Landed
proprietors were in the habit of encouraging their legal
advisers to resort to every contrivance to post-
pone the day of payment ; but they forgot
that that postponememt was effected at a terrible sacri-
fice to their own interests. At length, after the Master's
investigation into the title of the estate and into the cun-
ditions and circumstances of the encumbrances prior
to the creditor's demand, the suit begins to as-
assume the practical shape and form of a
report. This became again the subject of
much dispute and litigation in nine cases out of the ten,
but ultimately the Chancellor was empowered to pro-
nounce his judgment with reference to the payment of
the several demands affecting the estate. Again long
and bitter contests took place upon what were called the
" note," of the decree, and upon the language
used by the Chancellor. The unfortunate estate was
againtio
na r
yt:i:lheodstefirlisedotffiheee;asrniodu:stbat
officesfllof-
an accountant, of a profound lawyer, of an experienced
had into
previouslythe ia
conveyancer, and of a stock-broker, was next called
upon to constitute himself a land auctioneer.—(Loud
cries of "Hear, hear.") It was referred to him
to compose the particulars of sale, to adjust the various
observations and remarks which were calculated to entice',
to win over, and to attract the attention and notice of the
capitalists. The conditions of sale in Ireland were very
different to what were known as conditions of sale in
this country, %here a portion or the entire of the pur-
chase money was generally required to be paid at a par-
ticular place on a particular day. The conditions to
which he alluded practically meant that the purchaser
must determine fur himself whether be was going
to purchase a law-suit or an estate with a
good title. In nine cases out of ten they meant that the
purchaser should not obj, et to the title, in case there
might be hereafter some different construction put
upon what lawyers called an obscure will. (Hear.)
Purchasers should not object because of procuring that
testament, and he should be bound to accept the title
although he or his descendants should be ousted from
the possession by some flew in that obscure will.
The conditions of sale practically meant that a purchaser
should not object if it might thereafter turn out that a
particular man or a particular woman was not born in
wedlock. Ia fact the whole character of those condi-
tions of sale peculiar to Ireland, and the natural conse-
quences of the condition of the law by which real pro-
perty was disposed of at present in Ireland, really were to
involve every purchaser of land in Ireland in all the sources
and seeds of litigation arising from the course of careless
conveyancing which now existed, and which had been
now increasing for centuries in Ireland. The whole
effect of that accumulation of small incumbrances, in
consequence of the practice so general in Ireland of
continuing those old incurnbrances on record, of con-
tinually making them the subject of transfer, in conse-
quence of the imperfect registration system withl reference
to landed titles, and the absence of a registration system
with reference to charges on land, together with the
would
re of :hoe s
le-
gislation of that House with reference to judgment debts
C 7 and 8 Viet, cap. 90). The natural consequence of
l
ya w
there must
was
b e
nt
oo
siem b Member
deterio-
rater the selling value of the landed property in Ireland.
—(Hear.)tht
He anomalous
conditionventure
of the bar of either country who would not undertake
to ride with confidence upon the construction, operation,
and effect of the statute to which he had just referred.
There was no prudent or rational man in Ireland
who would not shrink from investing capital
in the purchase of property in Ireland, so
long as be was obliged to purchase on
conditions which would expose him and his children to
future children. The proeeedings in the Master's-office
to sell an estate must strike every rational man as the
very opposite of that which every prudent auctioneer
would recommend. After the conditions of sale had been
settled the estates were put up for sale at a particular
Place and on a particular day. The sale must take place
at that place and time, according to the rules of the
Court of Chancery. Now he contended that the
Master might be at liberty to sell the estate subsequently
to that particular time it be had the opportunity, even
thought it might be the result of private and prolonged
treaty, so long as the parties interested in the pro-
perty were prepared to ratify the Master's proceeding.
He warned the House of the danger of legislating with
reference to questions purely Irish, but more especially
those which had relation to the tenure of laud, without a
perfect knowledge of the nature and operation of the laws
of property—he warned them not to do so without con-
sulting practical men, well versed in the laws with regard
to property in Ireland. He gave credit to the Solicitor-
General for the introduction of the Incumbered
Estates Bill of last year. It had accomplished
much good, and so long as it remained unrepealed per-
sons would be prevented from len ling money upon pro-
party already deeply, if not irretreivably, mortgaged.
Nothing—not even the prophecies of the most sanguine
Minister of the Crown—would induce many of the landed
proprietors of
really was their ow • indeed, the Emperor of China
had as much right to the properties of many of the
s they themselves had.
landed propietors of Ireland
awith hich he was well
There were estates in Ireland 7
acquainted, which if sold at their highest value were
principal and
nt of the
wholly unequal to the payment
interest now charged upon them. The Bill, how-
ever, threw some impediments, such as compelling
the mortgagor to search for judgments against
him, in the way of the transfer of laud which it would
be well to remove. Now it was most desirable that the
utmost facility should be given to the embarkation of
capital in incumbered estates ; care should be taken to
remove every obstacle, and to give the capitalist the
utmost security in his investment. (Hear, hear.)
He wished the House to bear in mind that there was no
subject connected with Ireland that was more im-
portant than the state of agriculture ; as long as
they shrunk from the consideration of the question,
all their efforts by poor-rates or otherwite, would be of
no avail. If they were determined to deal with the
question of incumbered estates through the medium
of the Incutnbered Estates Bill, he could assure
them that all their efforts would fail. He thought the
proper course to be pursued was to appoint a commis-
sion and refer to them all litigated claims, and
those claims might be decided under the Act
that constituted the commission, and all doubt and
difficulty would be then removed, and no ques-
tion would be raised as to the legitimacy
of one part or tho other, and a good
title could be given to the purchaser. He wished to call
the attention of the House to the statements of Mr.
Senior, one of the Masters of the Court of Chancery in
this country. Now, what was that gentleman's opinion
with respect to the ineumbrances on land in this country ?
Mr. Senior says "I am aware that the system of con-
veyancing imposes great difficulty, great expense, great
delay, and great uncertainty upon the transfer of land.
There is scarcely a title marketable in the legal sense of
the term, meaning a title without a flAw ; scarcely any