The Sun.
London, England, 1831-11-29 00:00:00

CHAMBER OF PEERS.

Baron Pasquier President.
At twelve o'clock the Marquis of Dreux-Breze
was the only member in his place. The Peers
arrived slowly, and formed into a group, conversing
not in a very lively style upon the events in Lyons.
Ihe President took the Chair at one o'clock, and
the proceedings commenced.
The President—The Chamber has to receive M.
le Comte de Cassini, who had been admitted yes-
terday. I shall, therefore, request the Duke of
Caraman and the Marquis of Roche-Aymon to in-
troduce him to the Chamber. M. Cassini was then
introduced, and took the necessary oaths.
The President—Yesterday at the breaking up of
the Secret Committee, which was to have concluded
its labours, the President of the Council came to
the Chamber to deliver a communicaton of the ut-
most importance. A great number of the Peers
were absent, and were not informed of it. I,
therefore, thought it advisable that the Chamber
should be called together, and that all the Members
should have an opportunity of hearing this commu-
nication, so that they might propose whatever they
considered useful under the circumstances. No pro-
posal has as yet been submitted on this subject.
The Marquis of Barbe-Marbois—The proposal
is unanimous—namely, to vote an address, or reply,
to the communication made in the name of the
the King.—(" Yes, yes; seconded.")
President—Then the proposal for an address is
moved and seconded.--("Yes, yes.") I shall, there-
fore, put it to the vote.
The Marquis de Dreux-Breze demanded leave to
say a few words. It appeared to him that, before
they engaged in votirg an address, they ought to
know upon what grounds and fur what object they
were to vote it. But what are we going to do by
voting this address ? Is it to blame or praise the Ad-
ministration ? We approve of it every day, or at
least this Chamber, as well as the other, do by their
votes. An address is therefore unnecessary. He
did not say that the address should contain any
thing to justify those apprehensions, but this might
be believed, and he would not expose himself to
such a result : for it was his conviction that the Go-
vernment and the present Ministry would fall the
very moment that they departed from the Charter
of 1830. All parties were united under that banner,
because it protected all rights and guaranteed all in-
terests. In the same hour that the Government
shall have recourse to laws of exception the present
Ministry will be overthrown.—(Confusion of a
mixed character.)
The Count de Saint-Priest (with energy)—l do
not share in the fears of the last speaker, and I be-
lieve that no one suspects the Government of a
penchant for the laws of exception; for it has in-
variably repelled them, and declared that it would
never adopt any thing of the kind. As for this nice
feeling of etiquette, according to which we ought
not to do to-day what should have been done yester-
day, I am equally averse to such a feeling, and I
shall therefore support the adoption of the address
as far as my efforts will extend.—(Approbation.
" Supported ! Supported !" from several voices.)
The Marquis de Dreux-Breze intimated a wish to
reply, but was interrupted by cries of " Question,
question." Some cries of " Hear," were uttered.
The Marquis de Dreux-Breze—l have not said
that the Government required laws of exception;
but I feared that an extraordinary measure might
have the appearance of an approach to such mea-
sures.—(Murmurs.)
The Count de Pontecoulant—(Hear, hear.) On
arriving here I flattered myself that I should find the
Chamber of Peers unanimous is accepting the pro-
posal for an address.—(" Very good.")
M. BArbe-Marbois—lt is so with one exception.

M. de Pontecoulant—This unanimity seems per-
fectly natural for the fulfilment of a duty. I think
the Chamber ought to be unanimous at the present
moment, in order to assure the Government of the
support of the Chamber, of the assistance of all
good citizens for the defence of the laws, the pre-
servation of order, public tranquillity, the mainte-
nance of the peace of Europe—for every thing lies
in this question—every thing is compromised by
the turn-out of the workmen against the manufac-
turers, and the liberty of commerce and business.
There is no room here for etiquette or plausible pre-
cautions.—(llear.) I regret that the resolution of
this Chamber is not unanimous. In England, where
parties are more inveterate and at variance than I
hope they will ever be in France, when there was a
proposal relative to the mutiny among the sailors,
or any measures for the preservation of public or-
der, all opimotis amalgamated, and, gaining strength
by this unanimity, tranquillity was instantly re-
stored, and the prosperity of the country secured.
The President recommended that the following
Members should be appointed to form a Committee
upon this subject :—Count Portales, Count Caffa-
relli, Baron Monnicr, the Duke de Cazes, the Duke
de Cullon, Count Ilaussonville, the Duke de Brog-
lie, Count Simeon, and Count Mole.
The President—This Committee shall commence

forthwith the duly which has been confided In it.
Xs the hour is not too late, think 'that the Cham-
ber may as well wait for a short time time, and re-
ceive its report before they separate for the even-
in
g.—'(!econded.)
The proceedings we're accordingly ,ttnpentleti.
Not one of the MinilstrY was present at this dis-
cussion, ,
the sitting was resumed at 20 Minutes past tnree'
M. de Portales, the repOrter of the /ionlrnittee,
read the drift Of scratess to the King.
Af-,er .lome explanations from Count Dejean and
Baron Monnier on the part of the Committee, the
Chamber agreed to the paragraph with a slight
amendment, tending to plat:, tl'ie phrase in the con-
ditional,, and it was thus drawn up—" If, amongst
b:hose who were armed to defend it, there should be
found some to attack them," &c.
The other paragraphs were adopted, and ti.
Chamber proceeded to the scrutiny upon the entire
propositions
Votts • s
Ayes lO4

Unanimously adopted.
The President drew by lots the names of the
:wenty members who along with him are to present
:his address to the King.
The sittings terminated at four o'clock.

CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES—SITTING OF SATURDAY,
(Continued from the Morning Herald of yesterday.)
After the address proposed to be presented to the
King) touching the disturbances at Lyons, bad been
read—
MM. Pelet de la Lozere and Petou moved some
vet bal amendments, which were adopted.
At this moment the President of the Council en-
tered the hall.
M. Mauguin rose in his place, and said, " I do
riot wish to address any reproaches to the Ministry,
but when we are called upon to acknowledge that
their communications to u', with respect to the Lyons
affair, have been frank and complete,' I must pause
before I make such an admission. I move, there-
fore, the omission of the words 'franc/re: et com-
pletes' from the address."
The President of the Council—This is a direct
attack upon our candour—(Sensation—lively'agita-
don in the centres.)
The President's bell after a considerable time re-
called the Chamber to order.
M. Manguir:—(from the Tribune)—Gentlemen,
it is impossible this Chamber can 'attest the facts
stated from the mode of the communication. I ask if
you are satisfied that the communication has been
complete ?—(" Yes, yes," from the extremities—
" No, no"—prolonged agitation.) Some of you,
then, appear to think that the communication has
been frank and complete. For my part, I think it is
impossible. Let us examine the elements of your
conviction—are they not the assurance of the Mini-
nister that he had communicated to you all that he
knew ? But has he said a word of the origin of these
disturbances, which we all deplore ? When the
Minister comes down with a fair statement he will
find us all ready to assist in the restoration of tran-
quillity. I JO not blame the Minister for holding a
reserve on some points; but he ought to have told
us that he was not telling the whole truth. The real
cause of all these disturbances, if I am rightly in-
formed, is to be traced to certain acts of the local
authorities of Lyons, to which the President of the
Council has as yet made no allusion.—(Cries of
" Yes, yes," " No, no.") For a long time the
authorities have known that some troubles would
certainly take place ; and I now hold in my hand a
letter, which proves beyond controversy that troubles
of so grave a nature were not making their way to
an explosion without shbwing symptoms of their pro-
gress so manifest as to be obvious not only to
the citizens, but even to the authorities. The Pre-
fect ought to have foreseen that the authority was in
danger of being compromised, and he ought to have
forewarned the Minister of the danger. I shall read
' a few extracts from this letter, for I have no ambi-
tion to excel the Minister by communicating all that
I know on this subject. This letter affirms that the
workmen have for a long time been crying out for—
" What ?" by a number of voices.
M. Mauguin—.lustice and bread !—(Confusion—
the President of the Council is seen moving his
lips as if he Were speaking and gesticulating vio-
lently.) " The President of the Council ought to
be"—(Fresh interruption.)
The President of the Chamber—Pray, gentlemen,
do not interrupt.
M. Cabet—Rebuke the Minister; he it was that
interrupted.
M. Mauguin—l say, Gentlemen, that the Presi-
dent of the Council ought to display more calmness
in approaching the discussion of matters so im-
portant. If I read only partial extracts from this
letter, the Chamber ought to understand and appre-
ciate my motives. The letter stated," that though
the preparations of the workmen were known for
eight days, yet the selfishness of a small knot of
masters, and the carelessness of the police, allowed
them to bring their plans to maturity." The Mi-
nistry turned a deaf ear to all the warnings given
them. They were told that the real fomenters of
the troubles were the Clergy and the Carlist party,
but still rio steps were taken to inquire into the
sufferings of the people. The last answer obtained
from the Private Secretary of M. Prunelle himself,
when told of the projected meeting on the Croix.
Rousse, was, " Oh, we are prepared to repel force
by force." There is no pretence, then, for saying
that the Government had not been apprized of what
was about to take place in Lyons. Let us confine
ourselves then to what we know. Have we heard
enough for our purpose ? I am inclined to think
we have. But let us not go further, and say that
the communication has been frank and complete.
M. Dupin Aine opposed the motion of M. Mau-
guin, on the ground that without the excepted words
the address would fail of,its effect.—(Criespf " hear,"
from the right and left). This, he said, was not a
moment for captious criticism, and good citizens
ought only to concern themselves as to the best
means of applying a remedy to evils which have
cast desolation over a great city.
M. Mauguin—As I do not hold the authorities
guiltless, so I will not grant them a Bill of Indem-
nity. Undoubtedly the Government may count
upon us, as we do upon it,when public order is trou-
bled in society, and when persons and property are
menaced; but the time will come when we shall call
upon the Ministry to explain, why for several months
blood has been flowing in different parts of France.—
(Violent murmurs in the centre.) This shall be
made the object of other explanations.
The President of the Council—Gentlemen, it is
painful to be incessantly accused of want of candour
whenever we come to this place to give you an ac-
count of passing events. It is not that I wish to
attack the liberty of this tribune, but I cannot for-
bear remarking that the individual who has just
descended—(An explosion of murmurs from the
right and left. A hundred Deputies started from
their seats, and a hundred voices were beard ex-
claiming " the individual," " the individual 1"—" Is
he not a Deputy ?" The tumult was at its height,
and the President's bell, and cries of " Order,"
were alike ineffectual in restoring peace).
Several voices now called from the right and left
—"M. President, do your duty."—(Loud cries of
" Order, order," bat great confusion.)
The President of the Council—l meant to have
said " Deputy."—(Bah, bah.)
M. Demarcay—That single expression betrays
the bent of your mind.
The President of the Council—l assert that the
Deputy who accuses us collectively is the same who
accused us of having caused the ementes, who then
declared that he spoke in a collective sense, and
which was disavowed by those who sat near him.
I hope that he will be treated in the same way on
the present occasion.—(Various murmurs.)
The President of the Council explained, and, in
conclusion, sa'd he hoped the Chamber would lend
him its support, and would not join in a system sub.
versive of the Government.
M. Mauguin regretted that the discussion had be-
some so warm, but he attributed the cause to the

Minister•, who distorted his words: ‘that he said
was not capable of creating clamour
.and irritation.
Would it be iMposiible in future to discuss matters
in that place without giVing and receiving insults ?
tt would be lowering the dignity of the tribune to
reply to words which were probably uttered with
impertinence.—(Much conftii;ion towards the centre,
" Order, ordeC)
President—Explain the words which you have
used.

M. Mauguin—l shall follow the example of the
President of the Council, and say it wa3 through
mistake.—(Murmurs in the centres.)
M. Wilton Barrot ascended the tribune.—(Some
opposition from a small portion of the centres.
" Speak, speak !" from all parts.)
M. Guizot—l claim a hearing for M. Odillon
Barrot.

M. Odillon Thirrot declared he should have wished
that the address were unanimous. He had reason to
complain that the President of the Council was
constahtly trying to fix an individual opinion upon
some portion of the Chamber. He protested in his
name, and on the part of his friends, against all
systematic opposition. As to the suppression of the
words free and complete, required by M. Mauguin,
at the risk of giving the Ministry the slight advan-
tage of showing a division in what it calls the Op-
position, he must confess himself, on that point, of
an opinion quite contrary to that of M. Mauguin,
and he thought that the communication was but " too
complete."
M. Guizot rushed towards the tribune—(Cries of
" Question," and " Close the debate.")
M. Guizot—l have only two words to say.
The President—An explanation will bring it all
to a close. No doubt 1 ought to consult the
Chamber--

From a number of voices—Consult it then. Do
your duty.
President—As it is insisted on, I shall put the
closing to the vote.—(" That's lucky.")
The termination of the discussion was voted by a
very large majority.—(" Ah, ah.")
Immediately after the closing of the debate the
President of the Council mounted the tribune and
renewed the discussion. The scene caused by the
obstinacy of the President of the Council, some
months since, when advocating the pretended right
to speak as Minister, even after the closing, was
now acted over again. The right and left sides pro-
tested against any violation of the regulation. Nearly
the entire of the right side rose en muse, and put
several cross questions to the President of the Coun-
cil. M. Casimir Perier, although much agitated,
persisted in claiming a right to speak. The most
deafening and tumultuous noise and confusion ensued
and lasted for some time, the President trying in
vain to obtain a hearing for the President of the
Council.

At last the President of the Council exclaimed,
with the utmost effort of his lungs, " You wish for
the liberty of the Tribune, and still you will not
allow me to speak."
M. Sans—The discussion is closed, you cannot
renew it.

President of the Council—l am taking advantage
of my right, and you wish to prevent me—you are
not a lover of liberty.
M. Sans—And you Monsieur, you hinder peace
from dwel ing in this Assembly.
President of the Council—No one can be more
anxious for maintaining peace within these walls
than I am ; and when I have finished speaking I am
convinced that, with the exception of a single indi-
vidual—(at these words another indescribable scene
of confusion arose; cr.es of " Order, order !" from
all parts were kept up for more than ten minutes.
It would be impossible to recollect the different ex-
pressions which were addressed, during this riotous
interval, to the Resident of the Council, in the
midst of a frightful mixture of sounds. As soon as
a calm moment succeeded the President requested
the Chamber to listen to the explanation of the
President of the Council.)
President of the Council—l beg pardon of the
Chamber.—(Order, order.) I regret to have made
use of an inadvertent expression in tile hurry of de-
bate—(Cries of " Order" were repeated louder than
before, and the whole Assembly was in a state of
the greatest confusion.)
M. Mangum spoke for some time from his seat,
but was almost inaudible from the noise which pre-
vailed. He begged his friends to forget what had
been said by the President of the Council. They
ought to lay aside private interests, and apply them-
selves to the affairs of the country and its prosperity.
The President of the Council again assured the
Chamber that it was through inadvertency that he
used an expression which hurt the feelings of a mem-
ber of that assembly—("Bah! bah !" interruption.)

President of the Council—ls there any one who
suspects my intentions ?—(Several voices, " Yes.")
President of the Council—Explain.
M. Dupin—lt is a pity that we cannot see and
hear something from Lyons.
A Member— -We are here on account of Lyons,
and not for M. Perier.

After some further stormy observations, and a good
deal of confusion, . _

The Chamber proceeded to a scrutiny upon the
ensemble of the address.—(A great number of the
Deputies of the right and left did not vote.)
White balls
Black balls
Number of votes
Adopted by the Chamber.

Allusions have more than once of late been
made to negociations between Ministers and Tory Peers
on the subject of the Reform Bill. We have heard, that
some days before the division on the second reading, a
number of Peers, more than sufficient to give a majority in
favour of the measure, evinced a disposition to yield, and
that a negeciation was in fact opened, though it was pre-
maturely and somewhat awkwardly interrupted. It
might, perhaps, serve to guide us as to what we may ex-
pect from the same quarter, if we knew what were the
points respecting which the parties were agreed, and the
points respecting which they differed.—Morning Citron.

The two new novels which have occasioned so
much conversation in the Clubs, and in general society, are
remarkable for taking, in the most earnest and decided form,
the opposite sides in politics. " Cavendish" is heart and
soul for the Whigs, while the hero of Alice Paulet" is
as warm a Tory as the Duke of WELLINGTON or the
Marchioness—themselves could desire. The authors are
each young members of noble houses ; and, like men of high
breeding, have not been unmindful of the entertainment
of their fair readers, which they seem to have ranked as
one of the chief features of a novel. " Alice Paulet" and
" Cavendish" are especial favourites with the ladies.

Inquiries, we understand, are being made in
all quarters for the name of the author of " Cavendish, or
the Patrician at Sea." The region of Purtman-square is
in a ferment at some of the too palpable hits; clubs of
young naval-officers are sitting in divers places to deter-
mine what steps are to be pursued in regard to the anony-
mous writer; the Admiralty, even, is roused by the
caustic novelist out of its hitherto magnificent indifference
to observation, and his MAJESTY is said to have evinced
some curiosity to see the book whose peculiar features have
excited so much interest.

The Term which has just expired is reported
to have been the most unproductive one both to attorneys
and Counsel which has occurred for many years. Are
people poorer, or wiser, or both?
CATECHISM OF HEALTH.--This cheap and
useful little volume exhibits in a clear ard distinct manner
the various modes by which health and vigour of consti-
tution iniy be preserved, and points out the causes by
which bsth are impaired, from early infancy, through
childhood, youth, and manhood to old age. The practi-
cal remarks upon the management and care of children, in
particular, will be found invaluable to mothers, resulting
as they do from the experience of an eminent physician
who has for many years made the diseases of children his
peculiar study.

As a proof of the mercenary character of the
Dutch, they have been accused of selling gunpowder to
their own invaders. The French and English people
making cannon for Holland and Belgium, while the two
Governments were employed in keeping peace between
them, savours of tl►e same readiness to deal with any
customers.