The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-03 00:00:00

it vs: uld only be eftribetable to the circumstance that the
people of that country twee not desirous of throwing impecli.
ritew, in the way of the present Government there.—( Hear,
and cries of ‘‘ D:vide ")
Mr. HA R VEY said that, notwithstanding it was yet 'slit
an earls hour of the evening, he was not surprised that Hon..
:llsstesere were so caster for the division, as this was not a sub-
ject that e mild hear discussion--( Hear)—however deserving
it was of a far greater share of the attention of the House than
it s!ood any chance of receiving.—( Hear.) Not withstand_
log b that on the surface there appeared something of a well-
underetood discord— ( Hear, hear, and a laugh)—it was: rot
to be doubted for a moment that there was far more in the
p Horse
resento
nqsui
de question than
operiiend
.n_ta
ewhichar.) agitatedthat
Gcntlemerx
had spoken, and on various occasions, on subjects oe which,
their observations had been little else than a compendium off
past discussions, thus keeping up a mere memorial of bygone
pretensions, great because long, and profound because twin-
telligible.—( Hear, and laughter. ) subject could possibt,
be of greater moment than the one then before the House--
and it he should have the good fortune to be able to engager
the attention of the House for a few moments, he had no doubt
it would be mainly attributable to that courtesy which was too
frequently conceded to a speaker—the privilege of speaking
without giving him, in addition, any portion of support.—(A
laugh. ) It was highly gratifying to him to show that in pro-
portion as reflection succeeded inquiry, in the same proportion
would soundness of opinion be justified by tar-rm.—Cl-leer,
hear)—and as he hod three years ago trespassed on the pa-
tience of the House on this same qnestion, and was titers
blamed for not sus porting a eroposition which the Hon. anti
Learned Member for Dublin himself had that night opposed,
it was Same satisfaction to him—a satisfaction not the less va-
luable because exclusive—to see, after all his predictions, his
sentiments treated ns they were. When Hon. Gentlemen spoke
of the people of Ireland as being of an inflammable tem-
perament, and liable to discord, and when they were told by
the [lonourable and Learned Gentleman that in Ireland the
tranquility which appeared to prevail was all false, and that
they acre treading upon a volcano, of which they might every
moment expect to Lear the eruption break forth in tones
s imething like the se which they had heard two or the days
ego in the Park—(Lnughter)—what did it all amount to ?
( Hear.) What was tine present measure ? Not a word was
now said against the principle of appropriation even by Hon,
Gentlemen on the other side of the House--(Hear)—and yet
they would now see those lights of the Church, who were in
the habit of speaking of the millions that were starving with
the want of spirituarassistance, ready to subscribe, in a quiet
and paternal spirit—(Laughter)—to an appropriation of 30/.
or 251. pc rcent. of the income of the Clergy.—( Hear, hear.)
They were told that the spirit of Popery was stalking abroad,
and yet at the same time, those very Gentlemen who made
this assertion were prepared to come forward and sanctify
a proposition by which they took away 301. per cent, from
the spiritual wants of a country town, as they themselves
maintained, by this destructive and soul-destroying principle
of Popery.—( Hear, and a laugh.) Where were the great
lights of the'r Universities ?—( Hear, hear.) He asked them
why they did not step in and put a stop to such an unhallowed
proceeding ?—( Laughter.) The Hon. and Learned Member
for Dublin told them that they must ultimately have recourse
to the Consolidated Fund.—(Hear, hear.) Now, he Mr.
Harvey could scarcely conceive anything more gratifying to
the Hon. and Learned Member than that—(Hear)—but were
they prepared to turn that quiet and serene assembly—(A
laugh)—into an arena for the purpose of deciding whether
their money should be conceded to support Popery ?--(Hear,
hear.) He, as a Protestant—( Laughter)—protested against
this, and he was ashamed to see that Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site, who were on all occasions such great sticklers for Pro-
testantism, should be so quiet upon the subject at the present
moment.—( A laugh.) Whence arose this ? Why, it only
showed that they were ready to sacrifice anything so soon as
they found that anything in which their earthly advantage wits
concerned was at stake.—( Hear, hear.) The question was,
had the Irish Church too much, or had she not? If she had,
then why, let him ask, had the landlords of Ireland been placed
in a better position than those of England?—(Hear, hear.)
How could they think of dividing the relative position of the
two countries ? If they had a lack of means to support the
English Church why not bring the surplus of the Irish Church,
and apply it in aid of its starving fellow here?—(Hear.) Why
let the starving Protestants of this country any longer com-
plain of their condition ? But this was not the ground which
Honourable Gentlemen took, and he would therefore ask
them if the resources of the Church in Ireland were too great,
or whether they were, on the other hand, inadequate to its
wants? If they were too great, then either let them bring
them over to this country, or apply them to the other wants of
Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) There were many purposes to which
they could apply them. Could they not use them as a means
of softening and ameliorating the condition of the poor? Could
they not encourage and give a stimulus topublic industry, and,
by their means, attempt to render the country more happy than
it was at present ? If they were too great, why not apply
them in some such manner ?—(Heirs) But could any pro-
position be more heartless, cold, and discouraging than that
which went to say that there was no other way of pacifying
Ireland than by pilfering the funds of the Irish Church, and
appropriating them in a manner which was, in fact, doing no
less than applying them to their own gain ?—( Hear, hear.)
In the present general heydey of the public mind the effects
of such a mischievous policy might not possibly, be visible ;
but a few short years longer and they vveuld be fatally
evident.—( Hear, hear.) The people of England would not
forget that Honourable Gentlemen opposite had already
received nearly 700,000/. to meet the exigencies of the
clergy__( Hear, hear)—a sum which was first proposed as a
loan, next changed by a vote of that House from a loan to a
gift ; and now, what of those 700,000/. had been repaid?
—(Hear, hear.) Not 7,000/.—( Hear, hear.) Why, this
was nearly two years' purchase—( Hear, hear)--and it would
be far better to pay a sum of money at once, and buy up the
whole tithe of Ireland, than to be constantly subject to these
never-ending complaints of Irish grievances.—( Hear.) The
lion. and Learned Member for Dublin had told them that
this Bill would not lead to the settlement of the question—
( Hear)—and yet they had heard a sort of whisper that a great
and hallowed object was to be gained by it. and that all were
willing to pass it as a service to the country. But the Hon.
and Learued Gentleman told them that this would all tura
out to be a delusion—( Hear)—and, therefore, if there was in
that House any Hon. Gentleman whose mild and gentle
conscience led him to think that he wou'd, by voting for
this Bill purchase the peace of Ireland, he had the accre-
dited organ of that country asserting that night in his place
that such would not be the case.—( Hear.) It would be far
better than this to leave tithes as they were. He had been de-
rided when he asked if the law was not strong enough to se-
cure the collection of ,tithes, and was told that it was impos-
sible that that collection could be effected. He at that time
believed all this to be fancy ; and, what was more, he now be-
lieved it was all fraud.—( Hear.) Why not, then, stand by
the law ?—( Hear.) Were they prepared to sacrifice their own
Church ? When many of the poor curates of Ireland went
from parish to parish in the most inclement weather, in the
discharge of their duty, passing the streams and bogs of that
most boggy country—( A laugh)—for the small pittance of
some fifty or sixty pounds a year, how could Hon. Gentlemen
• ,polite—the great lights of th eChurch—stand by aid see
the shivering memorials of Christianity—(Great laughter).—
plodding on through those boggy regions as they did?—(A
laugh.) Was there any humble Rector in that country_
great in service but little in recompense—( A laugh)--that
would thank them for giving him 70/ a year instead of 100/. ?
—( Hear.) When they got this portion of his income from
him, they turned round upon him when he complairel and
requested him to be quiet as they would charge it on the Cen-
sr)lidated Fund.—( Hear, hear.) But when they once recog-
nised the principle that the Protestant religion should be
suppor'cd cut of the Consolidated Fund, then whatever the
Protestant Church might require must be sought fur out of
that same fund. Gentlemen on both sides of the House
would be glad to fix any church on the Consolidated Fund
when they thought that its resources were insufficient fur its
object. But this ought to be understood by Hon. Gentle-
men who were going to vote on this question. With refe-
reree to the mere party oat this question he would say nothing.
There was no: much choice or ellFcrecce between the Right
lion. Baronet the Men bcr for Tainworth and the Noble
Lord (John Rus=ell) in the matter ; but he was at a loss to
Issose how the Riglst lion. Gr rifleman could sit quietly by and
consent to the principle ef this Bill after all he had said as to the
security of the Establi,licd Church is ut.incetion with these
qogihupents,fitsitbsi.
to: ne,:sre,.:?—
acre soli tied, t
ty
titoostivie,fto he
iuiirrrna.
Hanes),
e‘ ebme ena
on
if net killed,
unded
ty
tobhnaot battle,
th Irlt•
that
politicalar eicfn t d , he was willing to congratulate then]
ble
the
Hear, and laughter)—hut ha
principle of thensessrfccirni e(cYlacnos'ell,d give tl:e
go-by to
fiftyt!.ope mathe
r
consequences
educational t p, veer.) purposes--(A
br
ep oci%oleanss_s
consider:
fiftydei.atiog
e)y_ae
argument
hencem stillc nt lt
heto e
particularlyr be e
n .devotederio e
sixty pounds a
protested agai was that which maintained that this measure
give traequillity to I eland —( Hear, from the Radicals)
--atid he was pleased to hear that argument contradicted, as he
considered that there is as no Ea,' e too large to maksinorder
to secure so desirable as object ; but he saw a motive for hosti-
lity to this Bill, and o e which, though an ungenerous one,
would no count be meete u'e of. The landlord would stir up his
tenantry to
to
theirres st
it,ohocepaymentsoLwt,i()tuhliae,
ao -311):ndgrtoouinldi that it
the itr-
convenieeces at present existing
. ds of Ireland making further att:rernpts to serve
I • dlor
let it not go forth to the world that ths)IIII17.---(
to the loroly etspi(illt of tii',(thrgrlee':' ber. added ;hat of the
th .ic
own interests at the expense of the cc
[louse in thus truekline
quire] ; bat till; scheme cont,in'se
teoseaL;-,e)ll..;.,()sfieteinr),_,-end he, for
the country. lie ) ' was thus doing a service to
e. retohneldg
be male, in order to secure the er'l.
on s Ito ceeeessionhileoaor.grealt.tuoirt
ivan!ages Ireland re:
Divide.") , .
Sir ROBERT INGLIS
_„l,,,det.___to,(s(..;,hh.eheersaisnl:sii:ci'llsrliten'selorb7eliesed to be dishonest in purpose,
rueo:tte:,
ed
iuss delusion
support
observations) was undeesteee'eseeLfiede:'"u" be
futile in re-
cries of " arid was n(ca"-h1; ionnauridstilinlge It''ll2rsouagsshaoluletdal"l'llatilis
tefi:ein• r
IT use, atenc i kd, ot, 151.' himself up that
as ath pee rifieoerti Membernd e. I ot.
( sir
noiks.r,t ifin.,e)un lung his taunts ,gait st both sides o
caled oat theai to Some of them abrticularly against' li:m.
list) and those who thought with him, and
state how it was that they could support
the principle of this Bill. With reference to the questios
of 'l'Pr('Priati(ni, he concurred with the Honourable and
Learned Member for Dublin, that there was a concession of
t' a principle (.f apprepsiaion, even in the 95/. or 30/. per cent.
which this Bill deducted from the income of the Clergy.--'
( [leer, hear.) But he (S:r IL Inglis) had never been on.
who had advocated the principle of app.opriation in any form
whatever.—( Hear, hear.) Ile agreed with the Hon. Membet
for Southwark that the law ought not to be resisted with im'