The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-26 00:00:00

year."

Lord ALTHORP did not deny that the preposition of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was worthy of consider-
anion by the Committee. But he did not think the ob-
jection of tLe lion. and Learned Gentleman as to the class
of persons thus to be made voters was at all tenable, as
these tenants must have been a year in the occupati .n of
the premises before they could be registered. Ile ad-
tnitted that the objection respecting the influence of a land-
lord, who might at a week's notice tutu the tenant out of
possession, was worthy of notice. But he thought the ob-
jection was overrated : for though there might be a l.nd-
lord who had 500 tenants, yet it was hardly possible to sup-
pose that any landlord would render v.icant 500 of his
houses at onw. Then what was the protection against
the possibility of abuse by the influence of the landlord over
tenants whom he could so easily dismiss? The protection
was, that the landlord would pay the rates in roost of those
instances where the tenants were so poor, and by so doing
the tenant would lose the right of voting, and the influence
could not exist. The effect of this amendment would be
to disfranchise nearly all the working classes in the manu-
facturing districts. One of the great objects of this Bill
was to give them a franchise, and he should be sorry to
give his support to any measure that would produce such
a general disfranchisement. He should oppose the amend-
ment.

Mr. C. FERGUSON should support the amendment,
becausz he tliou::,bt that the objections of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had not been answered by the Noble
Lord. To give such a franehiNe to weekly tenants, would

be in fact to place a most dangerous power in the hands of
landlords, and which might lead to the grossest corruption
and abuse. This would part;cularly he the case in the
manufacturing towns. The object of the Bill wa; to create
an independent constituency; and if be had to choose be-
tween a numerous and an independent constituency, be
should certainly prefer the latter. If the amendment was
not adopted, three-fifths of that House would he returned
by landlords of these small houses, by the influence they
could exercise over their tenants.

Mr. NV. EVANS said, he should oppose the amend-
ment ; for in his neighbourhood there were many persons
who paid their rent weekly, and who were very respectable
persons.

Mr. H. HUGHES said, that a large portion of the
freemen of Oxford would lose their votes, as they were
non-residents. They had supported the Bill, as they ex-
ppcted, that though they must lose their votes as non-
residents, they should get votes in another way-. This
amendment would disappoint them in that expectation,
and he should theref ire decidedly oppose it.
Mr. PEARSE said be should support the amendment.
Mr. O'CONNELL opposed the amendment, which, he
slid, would disappoint the manufacturing districts, where
it would materially diminish the amount of the elrcAve
franchise. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman was niis-

taken in supposing that a landlord could turn out upon a
week's !twice those tenants oho were yearly tenants,
merely because they paid their rent weekly. The notice
must be according to the tenure, and not according to the
time of the payment of rent.

. .
Sir JAMES SCAIILETT took it for granted tlntt all
the fiiends of a radical Refurin would vote against the
amendment. But as he was not, and never had been, and
never wou!d be, a Radical Ileortner—( Hear, and a laugh)
—he should vote with his 1100. and Learned Friend. The

tenant who paid his rent weekly could be ejected at a
week's notice, i❑ default of paying one week's rent, al-
hough lie were a yearly tenant. The amendment of his
lion. and Learned Friend would give the franchise to that
class of operatives who were most likely to exercise it in-
dependently. If the object of the Bid was to enable a
man to v.te according to his judgment and conscience,
that object could not be attained without the amendment.
If it were rejected, the boroughs would be as much as
ever under the controul of individuals.—(Hear•)

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it way not ueees-
savy for his lion. and Learned Friend to have talon so
much pins to prove he was not a Ito Heal Reformer.

Indeed, he (the Attorney-General) could see no grounds
fur suspecting his Learned Friend to be a Reformer at all.
—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The teal question for the
Committee to decide was, whether or not they should con-
ciliate a large, intelligent, and respectable class of the
people to the Government of the country.—(Cheers from
the Opposition.) If by that cheer it was meant to insi-
nuate that the clause was framed to concili,te that class to
the present Government, he must say the insinuation
was most unfounded ; and if the the-r, with that signi-
fication, came from young Membets, be thought it gave
no encouraging earnest of their future conduct.—
(Cheers.) The supporter' of the clause stood there for
the people of England, and were desirous of giving them
representatives in whom they could place confidence—
(Cheers)—which could not be the case unless the majority
of the people had a voice in the election.—(Cheers.) If
his Hon. Friend would consider the effect of his amend
anent, he would pet ceive that it would take the franati,e
front hoods eds of thousands of his couutrytneu, to whom
the clause gave the right of voting, and who were in every
respect well qualified to exercise that right with inde-
pernlence. lle hoped his Hon. and Learned Friend
would consider that his amendment would make an invi-
dious distiliccion throughout the country. It had been
said that if numbers and independence were placed in
opposite scabs, numbers ought to be rejected for the sake
of independence ; but he (the Attorney-General) thought
that the best security for independence was nut& e 1...—
, (Hear.) It was an I xtreme case to suppose that a tenant
• paying weekly should be ejected by his landlord on account
of his vote. Was it to be endured that at the same time
that they were extending the franchise iu the counties
they should tell those operatives that they were a class not
tit to exercise the franchise? The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman seemed to him to have put the worst con-
struction upon the motives of mankind. The adoption of
the amendineut would create a feeling of distrust towaids
the iustitutions of their• country, in a bilge body of the
people, who would form a most respectable, independent,
and intelligent constituency.
Sir R. PEEL said, if the class to which it was pro-
posed to give the franchise were most intelligent, indepen-
dent, and respectable, he would ask, how, did it happen
that within six weeks from the time when he was speak-
ing that class were disfranchised ? He could not say that
they were disfranchised, inasmuch as they had never had
the right ; but they had beer, told that they should have a
vote, and upon consideration it was remolved to disfranchise
them. After three months' consideration, the Members of
his 111:jesty' Government were appalled at the trot k of
their own hands, to which, like the monster in the fable,
they had been able to give vitality, energy, and power, but
which they could not endow with reason and judgment.

'fierier than twice a year. But they had excited the,hopes
which they feared to realise, and that was the only ground
al which their abandonment of the resolution eatwhich
-hey hid come after three months' deliberation could be
leferideah—(Hear.) They had given hopes to the humblest
class of artisans in Birmingham, Leeds,Shefrael,l,
and j.iver-
poul, that the franchise should be extended to them and
when afterwards their intention to withhold it wafle dis-
cussed at Political Unions, and at other meetings, they
were obliged to renounce that intention.—(Cheers.) But
why had they held out the hope ?--(Cheers ) Why had
they not well considered their project of a new Constitution
before they offered it to the Houseand to the country.? Why
did they one day give a right to hundreds of thousanda,
and in six weeks bring in a Bill to revoke the gift ? There
was no class of tenants in the country so dependent as
Those who could be ejected at a week's notice upon the
iteglect of paying a week's rent. Those tenants in towns
were in a very different position from that of the agricul-
tural tenant at will, who could retain his farm six months
after notice to quit had been served upon him. If a
place was adequately represented by a constituency of four
thoussod, it by no means followed that it would be better
represented if it had a constituency of thirty thousand.
Those weekly tenants were to be found chiefly in the
manufacturing towna, in thigh there exists already an
independent and respectable constituency, who would he
overborne by the numbers of the class which the clause
enfranchised. The introduction of that class into the
constituency would deprive prep .rte and intelligence of
their due influeuce, and, so far from improving, it would
have the effect of degrading the representation.—(Hear.)
The powers which were given to assistant-barristers and
to overseers, and which system of registration was pro-
jected by the Bill, would give rise to yearly electioneering
contests ; there would be no such thing as an election
without a content, and the contest would he renewed upon
the Ist of every August.—(Hear, hear.) The House had
been told that the Govermnent was now, fur the first
time, to be carried on without patronage. For his mart,
he (Sir R. Pi el) thought it right, material, just, and
reasonable, that the Gove!ntneut should exercise smite in-
fluence over those whom it emplayed. On that account
he had not voted on another night against the Government,
for doing in a very simple and disguised way--(A laugh)
—that which other Governments before them had done, al-
though with more discretion. Although he could
nut go the whole length of saying with the Right lion.
See:etary for Ireland, that every Government had dope
the same thing in the same way; yet he thotight it natural
and proper that they who were paid by the Govern heat
'should support the Government.— (Hear, hear.) Think-
ing that it was just, he would not vote again,t it' for the
sake of thwarting Ministers, to whom he was opposed
upon other grounda.—(Hear, hear.) If, then, he would 1
allow some exercise of influence to them, to whom the or-
ders and forms of the House forbade it,, how was he to re-
fuse to the landlord his natural influence over his tynnts ?
But at the satire time he could not conceal from himaef,
that the voters to whom the franchise would be given by
the present clause would be the victims of electioneering
influence, anal would he subjected to .all the controul which
a landlord can exercise over a weekly tenant.—(Hear.)
The independence of the electors of Liverp sob, Norwich,
Sheffield, and other places, was lucre secure upon the pre-
sent system than it would be under that Reform Bill ;
which, although it would gratify a great number of the
people, it would in its more remote influence diminish the
respectability of the representation, and ist the larger towna
it would confirm and perpetuate that undue influence which
could fairly, however, be discouraged, as indeed it would
be by the amendment of his Hon. and Learned Friend, to
which he should give his support.—(Much cheering, and
loud cries of " withdraw and divide.")
Mr. DENISON was understood to support the
amendment.

Lord VILLIERS said a few words which were imper-
fectly hard; but was understood to support the amendment.
Mr. CHOKER obs:Tved, that the Attorney-General had
designated tl e amendment as cruel and dangerous, and asked
was it to be endured? He (Mr. Croker) would ask the
House, was not the provision in question precisely the same
US that introduced into the Scotch Reform Bill? In that
point was not that Bill exacqy the suite as that nefarious
amendment of the Hon. Gentleman opposite ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that at the t'm
the Bill was framed it was not generally known that in the
manufacturing districts a weekly tenure was prevalent.
Mr. CHOKER said the Scotch Bill was introduced and
laid upon the table of the House so late as the Ist of July
Mr. GILLON thought the amendment, if carried, would
have no effect in Scotland ; for a weekly tenure was not
wand in that part of the United Kingdom.
Mr. HUNT said that all true Reformers would support
Ministers against the present amendment ; for their defeat
in that might prove deeply injurious to the success of the
Bill. When a proposition of his was recently before the
House, there were many Members who spoke in favour of
it, and voted against it, on the ground that it might prove
injurious to the Bill. As to the amendment, the mischief
of it, if carried, would be felt not only in the manufacturing,
but in the metropolitan districts, and therefore the Minis-
ters should have his full support.
Mr. CAMPBELL briefly replied.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL observed, that though most of
the tenures referred to were by yearly rigreementa, yet the
tenants could he dispossessed at a week's notice.

Mr. CAMPBELL denied that leases with such a proviso
wtte to be inund.

Ilr.
GISBORNE, of his own knowledge, could otate
that they were uounnou in Manehever and its neighbour-
hood, and other pat is of the north of England.
The Committee then divided-
-I.'or the original Inotion

For the amendment
Majority --68

On lie re-opening of the gallery, the House was engaged
in digposing of the other Or.'ers of the ;it adjourned
at Half-pa,t Two o'clock.

LIST of those who usually support the 13111, but who voted in
the MINORITY of li2 against his Majesty's Ministers for
Mr. Campbell's Amendment.
Adeane, 11. J. Denison, J. E.
Agnew, Sir A. Fergus,on, It. C.
t3elgrave, Viscount Greene, T. G.
Brabazon, Lord Harcourt, G. V.
Chaytor, W. R. Hudson, T.
Davies, T.

Johnstone, J. J. 11.
I.Villoughby, Sir IL
Wrightson, W. I&

TELLER.
C42ll)bell, J.

DUBLIN CITY ELECTION.

(From the Dublin Freeman's Journal of Wednesday.)
CLOSE OF THE POLL.—LAST DAY.
Gross Poll.
For the Recorder 381 11'21
Lord Ingestrie 352 —UhJfi
-
Mr. Latouche - s4S
Serjeant O'Loughlen 230 762
Majority on the day's poll —l2l
Gross majority