The Sun.
London, England, 1822-02-09 00:00:00

and it was as remarkable then to hear so extraordinary a speech
from the Throne, a speech distinguishable principally for
its omissions, and a foorth part of whiCh was occupied about
the affairs of Ireland. It Was, he thought, impossible to
-reed' his Majesty's Speech and believe 'such a state of things
existed as laad been described. But if it really did exist, it
was a disgrace to Ministers.-- The papers laid before the'
douse were most meagre when examined for the purpose
of supporting such a measure- as the presentae-A, Noble
L6rd, . (Mouritcharlee,)' who had supported these measures,
appeared to think that 'Ministers were to .be blamed for
not havirg brought for Ward those measures -earlier ; and were
thoSe the persons to whom this extension of power *as to be
entrusted ? If he (Lord F.) would give this power-to others,
be would deny it to Ministers. As to the suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act, he could riot see how it applied to the
present 'disturbances. No supporter of that measure had
pointed out its application. One fionbUrableMember had ap-
proved of the InsurreCtion Bill, and had disapproved of the
Suspension Act ; anthrather supported both, that he might not
divide his vote. Rebellion had been spoken of ; hitt rebel-
lion was not mentioned in his Majesty's Speech, nor in any do-
cument which was produced to the House; and he (Lord F.)
could not consent to suspend the liberties of a whole country,
because a small portion of it was in a disturbed state. It was.
said indeed that Lord Wellesley desired these extraordinary,
powers ; but of this there was no evidence whatever. It appear-
ed to him doubtful that the Government of Ireland thought
these powers necessary ; there was no evidence of it beyond the
word of the Noble Marquis opposite, which he did not ques.-
tion ; but he did not think the House ought to grant such large
powers upon the ipse dixit of a Minister. ord Wellesley
was the sort of man who, from the energy of his character, was
most likely to wish for despotic power. That Noble Lord had
run a brilliant career in India, but it was by the means of des-
potic power, and the use he had then made of that power was
not such as to induce him (Lord F.) to grant it to him again.
The authority of name also failed him with regard to the other
Act, which the Noble Marquis opposite told them was drawn
up by Mr. Plunkett. He remembered, on the occasion of the
Six Acts, the definition which that Learned Gentleman gave
of liberty, which was, that it was power to do that which the
law permitted. He also stated then, that the people of this
country had become so well informed, that they required such
measures. Now that the people of Ireland were sunk into
the lowest state of ignorance and wretchedness, he thought
the same measures of coercion applicable. Neither therefore
could he support these Bills on grounds of confidence in the
individuals from whom they sprung, and by whom they were
to be executed, nor in consideration of their own inapplica-
bility to the particular circumstances they were destined to
meet.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY felt himself called upon
to give an immediate answer to each part of the Noble Lord's
(Lord Folkestone) speech, as applied to himself. He alluded
'to the opinion of the Noble Member, that the declaration of a
Minister of the Crown, in his place in that House, was not suf_
ficient to legislate upon, but that the fact Must be established
by. document before the House. He meant to combat that po-
sition—( Hear, hear, hear !)—A Minister who should in that
House state as fact that which should afterwards turn out to be
false, would be as liable to impeachment as if he were to forge
dispatches. And there could be no doubt, that any one who
could so expose himself to the indignation of the House, to the
penalties of the law, and the contempt of mankind, by deceiv-
ing his Sovereign with false facts, would, with the same apathy
to public opinion, commit the forgery of a public dispatch.—
(Hear, hear !)—With great deference, therefore,_ to the Noble
elaord,he mast beg to question the constitutionality of his opi-
nion. What he had stated was on his responsibility. It was
not the first time that the Noble Lord had 'made a point of
forming a contrast in his sentiments with those around him.—
He (the Marquis of Londonderry) thought lie had been ex-
tremely happy in that character to-night: for it appeared to
him he had risen more for the purpose of attacking the charac-
ter of the Marquis Wellesley than any thing else.—(Hear!)—
With regard to what had fallen from him on that topic, he
should merely say, that the case he alluded to was matter of
history, and he did not think that Nobleman need fear the opi-
nion with which it would go down to posterity. It was true
that that Nobleman returning after a splendid career of public
service such as it seldom falls to the lot of an individual to per-
form, to enjoy those laurels which he had so laboriously earned,
found himself in a situation of being obliged to travel through
a long course of examination into his public conduct, at the in-
stigation of an individual, Mr. Paul, he believed. But al-
though by this means the reward due to his honourable exer-
tions was much delayed, lie received it at-last. The sense of
Parliament was decided upon that point, and never was an
accusation dismissed from the walls of that House in a man-
ner more calculated to mortify those who had laid it than
this was.—(Hear hear !)—He had made use of the word
cruelty as applied to that Noble Marquis,' of the unfounded
harshness of which he referred him. to his friends around him
to be assured. Whilst all around the Noble Lord (Lord
Folkestone) united in giving praise to the character of Mar.
quis Wellesley, and heaping confidence upon him, and almost
ready to invest him with supreme power, the Noble Lord stood '
a splendid exception to that line of conduct. He would how-
ever not press that subject further, leaving the Noble Lord to
all the glory to be acquired from such a course, and fully as-
sured that the glory of Marquis Wellesley would in no respect
suffer from the attack he had made upon it.—(Hear,
The Right lion. Baronet (Sir J. Newport). had given up his
opposition to the Bills, because he was satisfied that the Mar-
quis Wellesley would not ask for them if milder measures
would be sufficient. But lie must defend himself and the
Marquis Wellesley against the charge of the Right Hon. Bart.,
of having selected the most violent of the coercive laws applica-
ble to th state of that country. He wished the House to know
the nature of the law which the Right Hon. Baronet was will-
ing to pass in place of the Insurrection Act. This was the
Martial Law Bill, a Bill which was not restricted in its appli-
cation to particular districts, and that only on the application of
seven Magistrates of those districts ; but a Bill framed solely to
be used in cases of flagrante hello, and where the object is to
secure the co-existence of civil administration, with - military
law. The law would apply to the whole of Ireland, and were
they to be called upon to put the whole country under the ban
of such a power as this ?—(flear.)—lt furnished the same reply
to the objection to the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act ;
for by the Martial Law Bill, it was a sufficient return to the
Judge's writ of Habeas Corpus, that the individual was in the
hands of the milita ! Ile was not prepared to go along with
those who advocated this law in their flight towards military
over civil force. Hp could not go along with them in thinking
that marching regiments were better organs for the administra-
tion of justice than the magistrates of the country.—(Hear.)-a
He repeated, he could not agree to deliver Ireland over to
marching regiments. fie thought that Marquis Wellesley had
not aslied greater powers than were necessary in asking for the
Insurrection Act. The time might arrive when more vigorous ,1
measures might be necessary ; but he was happy to say that it
had not yet arrived—(Hear.)—The lase that was contemplated
in the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act was the laying hold
of itinerant emissaries, to relieve the country from the baneful
effects of their pernicious labours.—(Hear.)
Dr: LU$l-IIICG TON could not feel satisfied that the state of
Ireland required those measures, or that they would have the
effect antiej,pated. Ile thought alSo that the Noble Marquis
Opposite hear kept them too long in the dark. But lie did nut
believe the Noble Marquis knew himself what he meant to do,
for it appeared that the haste was not proportioned' to the exi-
gency, but to the diligence of the engrosser. He would have
been content to pass a Bill arming Marquis Wellesley with
powers suited to the exigency of the occasion ; but these Bills
he could not think necessary. He must also advert to the se-
vere animadversions of the Noble Marquis upon his Noble
Friend (Lord Folkestone) in consequence of his having deli.
vered his honest opinion of the conduct of the Marquis Welles-
ley in India. When the Noble Marquis said that his Noble
Friend stood alone in his sentiments on this subject, had he
forgotten the declared opinions of Sir Samuel Romilly, Mr.
Whitbread, Mr. Sheridan, and Mr. Wyndham, delivered in
that House to the seine effect, and in language as unequivocal
in meaning and pointed in expression as ever fell from the lips
of man ? Ile (Dr. Lushington) believed that the MarquiS
Wellesley in his public conduct in India had lost sight of some
of the most solemn obligations, in his amleition to enlarge the
British dominions there. But putting; that out of the question,
was this a case for confidence? TheMarqieis Wellesley might
wish to' do his duties fairly; but so complicated were they in
their nature, and so numerous, that he could not safely exer-
cise large powers. As a proof of this, he would call to the re-
collection of the Noble Marquis opposite, A case which occurred
under his Administration in Ireland, wherein heeigned a war-
rant without knowing the name of the individual, He did not
impute any blame, but stated it merely to chew the danger in-
curred in such cases. The Gentleman he alluded to was a
Catholic of large property, and who had not been out of his
house for many months. His son heard of the warrant, and
applied at the proper quarter in Dublin, where he was informed
that he might rely upon it there was no -truth in the report....._
The son however was afterwards more positively inthrined of
the fact, and again applied in Dublin, and by perseverance elu-
cidated the Matter and obtained a counter-warrant, and by, tra-
yelling post was in time to-prevent its execution. This was a
Gentleman of 50001. a year, who personally assured him of the
fact. With regard to the 'Magistrates of Ireland, the Hon.
Members froM that country
.had all tad to n they were not
to be trusted. Under these circumstances he could not agree to
the passing of these Bills.
Mr. -LOCKHART could not agree with those around him,
that td pars these Bills, was to sacrifice the Constitution of this
country. The Constitution was already sacrificed In most of the
districts of Ireland, under the most aggravating circumstances,
by those against vhom the measures were directed. Thew
persons had already Set at defiance tha Constitution, by secret