The Sun.
London, England, 1813-02-06 00:00:00

ROMAN CATHOLIC CLAI S.

SUBSTANCE ,of the SiI,,ECIL of the Right
11,)n. Sir JOHN NICIML, o.liveyed in the
Hump of:Colimons; 'Monday, February 3,
1812)

UPON A '''r:ISTION :
4' That this. Muse will resolve itself into a Comtnittee of
" the wbule• 'louse, to take into. Cuabitle;:fition the
" present State of- Ireland."

[Conctudedyfrom our Paper of Yesterday.]

hmong tin advantages suggested, it is .said that -
the umpire' will be consolidated and strengthen-
ed, and•the,,Cutholics be induced more freely to
. enter our fleets and armies';---that conciliation
and satisfaction Will be produced ;—andl. it is
added, that the concessions must ultintately be
granted, because demanded by so large a body of
subjects.
In regard to the Consolidation of the .:Empire,
much doubt may be entertained whether that
Consequence is 'not visionaryuay, whether, to
admit the Catholics to a full participation of
power, will not be sowing the seeds of ,distinion
'end contest in the Government and in the Lin-
'pire, Discordant materials seldom coalesce and
unite so as to produce strength. It may be
asked, why should difference of religions opi-
uiOns produce political, discord It is sufficient
to answer, that it Always has 'produced that
effect-7-that prtiduces it at, the present rtio-
ment—and that until human nature is' altered,
and man, under thee-lights of the new •philoio-7;
phy, OA cease to be a religious aniMal, it will
probably continue to produce the same effect, and
to be made (as, it has been termed) a steppitig.
stone to ambition, and to the aequisition of pub- •
tieal power.
It bits, indeed, been asserted that this equality
of political power will even tend to the security
of the Protestant. Interests in Ireland !----but,. us
the reasonings upon which the assertion Was made,
have not. been disclosed, it teentS difficult to Con-
. jectorc ho the inerea.ed pOiver of the Catholics
is to strengthen the security of Irish Protestoet,e,
in' the enjoyment either of their altars,• or, of their
estates ! !
The Consolidation of the Empire (which is the
proposed advantage now under- exantination)
lip-
peaks to have been much more effectually secured
by the Legislative Union. of I:lid Three Kingdoms.
1 hat Union wi.U.be best' cemented by the coqina-
'ideation of Cothinerelal Advaotaget4,knii of Agri-
• cultural lintirovements ; by' the 'interchange of
perto'w.il kindness, and a free intercourse between
the. people ;by laying aside local distinction,
and considering the Three Kingdino as one
country ; ,by ceasing to misrepresent the truth;
and to impose upon the ignorant by holding out
to the Irish that they are a neglected, 'degraded,
01111 oppressed part of the nation, Not withstand-
ipg these misrepreseritntions;the gt'eat body is at-
taehed to the empire, intd:not disposed to separate
Omit Great Britain, or to -unite themselrei to
Pranee ; they promptly and gallantly cuter our
fleets and armies linty, it is frequently asserted
in this Hotr...e; that they fight the. battles of the
country, even beyond their propingionate nem-
berg. The exclusion,. which, in truth, does not
extend to abort ftirty offices, to high commands
in the Navy 'and Army, and to teats in the Le-
gislature,----situigiong certainly of high value to
the superior Order of the Catholics, and, by re-
fined reasoning; of some value even to the lower
orders;7-does not .come sufficiently near to the
latter tri,affeet theta very sensibly ; and, proba-
bly,' does net cause one 'man the less
,to enlist as a
soldier, or to enter -as a AttitOr. Let it, howerer;
tot he understood that any Man ought unneees-
. t‘irily to he excluded from -sititations that are'
open to his fellow-subjects but: that is a ques.;
tion of political expedieney:-. The, Constittitlon
must balance,' and, it is tO 'be presumed, has
we4hed the: ad‘iatiages .and disadvantagcs*.-
and the diSadvantageS (as fitr as resne,Cti 'the
strength anti cot sOlidation of 'the empire) of
clading even the. higher 'elasses front the sitna,
Gm,. referred to, do not appear to possess that ex-
.treine importance Which it attempted to be given

to t hem
The bardAiip uptin the higher. classes is cer-
tPilAY considerableJ but, stands justified by the
grounds of expediency upon Which the Constitu-
tion has founded the exclusion. In pint. of. prin-
ciple, however, the hardship is dionnished by the
Union ; once the Catholics who, while, Ireland
was a separate kingdom,' formed filmy:fifths of
We population of that country, and were yet cx-
chided from itygo'Verninentfmay now, with more
rtppearanee ui jtistiee, be cxeltolq froth sharing
in the Government of the linit.l Empire, 01
whose entire population they form

11;1
The its :Adantn;e held otlt, is "
That. ~~~-tt3t'lilltt°u Will
eci11()01;1'te ntit the Catholics nt least eon
tritry to pa,t experience ; the fact being, that
nc-nrictioni rno.re severe, the Cathoti.
wore most quiet ; and, • ever since Concessions
'Jaye begun, they have been moot dissatisfied; and -
their demands have progressively. increased. The'
fact only stated,: ir hat :some, iligOnVOlipliee
have Litt ondA the taking off restvietionti,, fur.-
Dishe4 no sufficient reason against the propriety
of that inea,,,uret—far otherNvise,--still less, would
it jtl9) ifs ri3t. reenacting of those restrictions.—
] at whit ( ueidiatioir and Satisfaction arc held
out 35 ,tt ~ntageS W bleb WWII(' CoILOW frolll COll,
CeSSI , palt experience, s
uet it prohanie that
.
the. eN.Oectittion thos4 Conseqces may be dis
appointed.
col pO:,;e all the deniandii noltt :made were'.
:ecnOeded ; _the measure stop best.? would,
the Cathollo; be ,Satistied is ,tlartlly pos-z
sible ; • for other Iffel.t3gres, some of smaller, Some
of greater. itl4)Ortinice, makt follow ; . liccanSe
they NI/rigid kand Upon the, s.',Natc principle —such
as the repeal.of ail retrictions itpoi the lactiglish
ath...dic-!,3—the repeal of the Corpor.ttion arid TeSt
t 11031 Payment of tithe-r. by the. Irish
atio,lic.,!, to the riotestant
Catholip n.tablishrnent . After these,
would the Prote,,tant Church sof kcLoul be,quite
sector the bl,'itates :held by PrOtestatift
cintr,io unasSiOled ?-,--and are; .-ive:(init.e Imre that.

n aftiffpt,tit Catholic .Ascenttaney *fluid mit he
made even in this co►n►try ?,Great privileges
helve been already granted to the Catholics ; not
only. the free and secure exercise of tl►eir tchgion,
equal protection to, their persons and pro-.
petty ; but a considerable share of political power
lus been conceded ;to, them by the, elective frau,.
dike, 'Jibe eleetive franchise has given tl►em an
ememive. influence, over the Protestants ,them-
selves ;---,it has made the voice of the Catholics to
be heard pretty' distinctly in the Legisla►t►►re.--
There is no clanger of their interests being over-
looked and neglected.
Bat it is said, that " the concession must be
- made'; it is demanded by four tuilliOns of sub-
jects, in this demand they ore .determined to
.persevere year• after year, till they iibtain it from
'Parliament ;" nay eve►► menaces are insinuated--
'° insurrection and rebdllion—the dissolution of,
thc Union—atil a total separation between the
two countries,"

The firmness of the Legislature in the discharge
of its duty to the nation is not to be alarmed by
such consideration Menaces injure rather thuit
assist the. cause they are meant to promote.—
They Will not extort concessions. Extorted con-
cessions• never yet twoduecd conciliation; they
only'scrve to degrade those frmn whom they are
extorted. The very attitude of intimidation as-
sinned 13y the Catholics in Ireland seems of itself
a strong objection to the making of any -conces,
~ion at this time.

The Catholic .body).it is true,. are numerous-
brave, high.spirited, firm, and attached to their
; their Protestiint fellote subjects,,
in deficient in these qualities,- and in .
are four to one. The Legislature will
oVE: be readily prevailed upon' to give up the Pro-
testant ascendancy.- The -kindness of the Pro-
testants to their Catholic fellow std,jeets has: no
other Innindary than what i 3 necessary. tothe seL .
eurity cif their own constitutional establishments
in Church and State ; but they mast have. security.
The very numbers of the Catholic's increase the
danger of admitting them to a full share of power.
If they svcre .few, the boon be granted
with great6.,r safety. But their inntti.m,, though
in sonic respects' strengthening their claims, vet
also fortifies the ground 'of refusal, rind that on the"
Main point, namely, seetirity. ,
What, then, its the security ? spechl '
rangements for , domestic tranquility, and bar-
. tiers against foreign. influence, .we hear no-
thing-odic only security is one which fi,e. Con-
stitution Already provides, namely, a Protestant
Sovereign. • •
In the first place, theCpnstitution has hitherto
nottliought that alone a sufficient_ security ; but
it has encircled the throne with Protestant
ters, and with a Protestant Parliament. Step-
ping gown, however front that groom', yet look-
ing prosPtctively to it future 'period (for, in a
matter of Such ektremc importance, we must slot
Confine our view to the .prcsent InnfncutY,'. let iii
suppose' a 'Monarch seere,tly inclined to the, Ca.,
tholie religion, or one wholly indltlieren t to all re-
ligion;attaehed to Catholic favourites and Catho-
lic: Ministers—that, in the House of Commons
there were a hundred Cathcilic members, beiides
the usual influence of the Crown—that there were
Catholics- mixed in all parts of the Stake, in all
the powers of the. Government, and in higlt
military nnrnand-- by four. millions of
population', under the influence ,of a Catholic
priesthood—that priesthood iruder the authority
of a foreign power.--and that power, in' effect,
France.;--would there be no danvr to your
elesiastical Establishments, or your Civil Liber-
ties, or rather both ?-!--for they willstand or fall
together I—Even.all tl4 awrangements. ;lad bar-
riers that could.be formed, might be swept awaY,.
and the Nation, be involved in the horrors of a
civil and- religious war.. It Might 'bare no re-
source bin in resistance and revolution. If such'
calamities are even possible, the risk should not
be run looeven the risk, even the possibility, even
the apprehension, won!! 'be ~a ealamity. The,
Nation would not passively -deliver up their 'Pro
testant (Atwell to a Catholic Court, nor theirCi-
Liberties..to an arbitrary po,rnmerit.--Let us
not mistake the silence Oldie Nation at this pre-
Sent Moment for inpuslhility to this subject; still
less for acquiescence in these claitns If the table
of the :House i 3 not covered with.petitions, it is
only bectitise the }tett* at large think at present,
that there is no chance Of the - claims being etin,-
ceded—lint if they saw any appearance of it, the
voice of the Nation would probably be heard in
pretty loud accents. Ttiontkh the mild and be-
nign .spirit.of toleration; which has long charac-,
terited our GonstitutioU,and actaMed our cliurch,
has un t lrattpily estinguished. reiigi OUS antipa
thics, yet it is errdneons to suppose that, the Na-
tion is indiilerent to its Protestant altars, It is
anxious fir their perfect sccutity, not only
front religions .preference, but because they are
thst, the Protestant . Ascendancy
tire intimately interwoven the Civil liberties, of the
people.-

Bat, it may be asked, is the exelits.ion then. ne-
ccs6vily to be perilettml? certainly not—a change
of circurnstalioljyaiay render -ixn extension of pri-
vileges seccire".l.'he, ttitst important change is
from ignorance to knonwledge, front turbulence to
social order. The danger, in a consider-
able ilegree) arises frPM the great mass of the do.-
tholie.4,---those in whom the ptcysj.eal force of the
body vesidcs,—beitig, through their ignorance,
under the entire dominion of their Pricathood.-:-.'
The physictd force tinder' that influence, connect-
ed with Foreign Authority., -and guided by the
higher classes fully sharing in political power,
might be applied to the ITIOSt dangerous purposes;
arid, tinlcl,s butnan nature itself is changed, the.
attempt.of so applying it is probable. A partici:
pinion of power between p4rtie3 who materially
differ 01)011 ionic great principle, has „never..yell
existed without each attempting to gain the as.
cetolaiirv. This is no refieoima on the Catholic:a.
The lore of power is universal, The Protestants
equally po,,,ess it. They fictve the ascendancy
they have it justly ; not,only by the laws of tits
cowticolion, but at; being-four-fifths of the point.
lation of the Empire. They exercise it mildly
IttotkrittelV ;---they Maititain full toleration,
under
-their asee6dancy the 'greatest blessiNo hart

. •
..
. . . . . .
..
lictil enjova by the natiftn---it is illeir_r*.ghtl, hay
1 it k their duty, not to risk the loss of that ascend-
.]
alley.. . . . . . • . '
But A meli ora t e the condition of the lower or-
ders of the Catholics as 'much as possible—c.h.l-
- them—enlightim thent—enablethem to re :d,
to examine, and to decide for thernselve,,- upon,
the !.;rent principles and precepts of ltel4.tion ,---,
tutch them to estiinate the true vttine of. TOltJa-
tion, and the blessings of the Briti4i Constituti-
on ;---lee them 'show their change ii.lncl their iin-
prOvement by living in due submission '';ind Order-
ly 'obedience to the paws;--:then;, andpot till
then, can farther concessions be*ely granted to
thenk .' -

This appears to be the view. which 'Parliament
should take of the subject.. It is highly desirable
to conic to a frank and open decision upon it ; that
beim; the most likely mode to produce quiet.—
Suspense only fostch discontent. The Catholics
cannot but be assured that the Legislature has telt
the strongest disposition to give the most full and
deliberate consideration to their claims ; they have
been repeatedly entertained
.and Eictissed every
rugutnent whte ability and zeal could suggest,
have been offered in 'support of them.
Perseverance, however, is threatened.—Can the
Catholics suppose that, upon.a subject so vitally
important to the. hest interests of.thk nation, the
Legislature will be teazel into:, acquiescence by
importunity ? still \less, that it will be Overawed
by menace ? Certainly not. It is only by
fercnce to the reason and conviction of Parliament •
that they have any prpspOt of stAcces; to their ap-
plication. , Satisfy Parliament that the boon e:m
be granted with perfect safety to the Consti-
tution 'in. ChOreh and State, and it will, be
granted nearly. with unanimity,--t-almost by acclu-
But the proof lies Upon the Catholics.; and that
proof must be clear. The nation AVM not be
tisfied that their constitutional liberties,should be
risked upon speculative opinions and ahs-tract re-
finements. The stake is too iiiportaut to ven-
toyed on a mere calculation ot, chances. Let the
ooncessions groposertbe stated with preciSion—
the barriers and arrangcmentS_ which are to acconi-
pray them, be accurately
.set forth, wild carefully
examined, so as, to
.assure us of perfectsccurit7.-
If that course s !jot pursued, where are we to
stop ? ;Where Citrl we Make. our stand With safety,
but at the point at Which woare akcadY arrived ?
Without a change in the condition.4f catho-
bus, 'and without ample securities, should the
Prot:- tant.circle round the Throne be drawn still
closer, we may, as that .circle is
.diminishing, be
carried on, even with accelerated velocity,' .to-
wards, a vortex, which wendd engiuph hi its abyss
the Protestant.. Throne,-,---the Aeligiort's Esta-
blishments,-:--and the Civil Liberties of tire Na-
tion.

LAW REPORT.

coua'r OF CI-lANCERY, 'Fr.e. 6.

Sir S.. itomilxv moved, on, behidt of Messrs.
Firman'and De Tastet, that i...oncurlissioners
uuder the bankruptcy olLatham. and'Party, shOilla
be directed to put a value on filk property received
by his clients front the bankrnptl, an4.l that they
might 'he allowed to prove tankr the commission,
and have a vote 'for assignei.i. The; Learned
Counsel-stated, that the Bankrupts- were indebtod
to Messrs.Firmati.and ,De Tastet in the sum' of
87,000 i. that the ‘ankrupts were emploeit to
purchase a quantity of spirits for them on com-
mission that previous to the act of ban4kruptey
they detected the bankrupt Parry in a forgery
them to the atuott.nt of 2..M)001. ; that 'they then
required the Bankrupts to make over the spirits
they had purchased for them, whiCh they. to
• the amount of 15 or 10,000/. but when his
clients went before the Cominislioners• they re-
fused to let them prove any part of their 'debt,'
nail they had given up the.property ni..:kde over to
them by the bankrupts, XI
Firman and .De
Taster were willing to iteCounit for ;he pioperty,
at whatever ;min the potnntibsiouers should value
it at , •
•.

• The LoRD cIiANCELLOR obSCrVed, if the Coin
.
MISSiONCri thought they had nor a right to the
property, they utust give an utnirtakihg to nenver
it up before they could 'have a yoke for assignees.
Under those conditions he would grant the mo-
tion.

COURT OF KINg'S 11RNCII, FEB.S.

The Mat was occupied the whole cif the day
until four o'clock, upon the following cases re-
,
set ved tor SpeCllll argument.
no ou the demise cf JAMAS V ITALLETT.

`This was.an action in cjectment, and the (ine-i-
-tions, turned ttpu the meaning of the word,
"childril4 to be .begotten,:' ux cy.prc:;)ed
will of the law Mr. James, and ‘vigc..the.k. the same
could he eme.:trued with refefence to children
living at the time of making the win,- IA11,11(1\01
to the testatoe.

Mr. Pitiorrotl was heard at consi;lerable tength
for the,Plaintilf, .rig.,tinit such an extension' of_the
worill of the n i 11, 44141 in the coor:e of a very abfe
and learned argument, the doctrine of last 'wills
'WI:18 largely promulgated.
Mr, llot.Rolo, conirtt;argued for the extension
of the terms ;.; and the Court were tinatiimously of
,opinion,, that the AVt,i'dB-' chil.lren to be begot-
ten,,, had reterence to such child or Children as
wero thenlit existence, their Lordships;'threfore,
gave judgment for the defendant. •