The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-19 00:00:00

Girl, Lady Sarah, the Swede, Valentine, and several
bi r two year olds.
The Trial Stakes will im run at half-past one o'clock,
the Two Year Old Stakes at Two, the Metropolitan at
:hree prccisel); the two r..ces in heats and the match
Kill follow.

The course is in admirable order, and great improve-
ments have b&en made since last ear by Mr. Dorin4.
'The turn at Tatter,hatn's Corner has been widened,
giving more space for the large fields expected; the
starting place: for the 'l'. Y. C. has been much im
proved, by levelling the ground, and covering the roads
with tan and mould.

INTERVIEW OF IRISH MEMBERS

WITH LORI) JOHN RUSSELL.
An interview of the Irish Members with Lord John
Russell took place yesterdey in Downing-street, ac-
cording to the circular invitation which had been ad-
dressed to all the Irish Members by Lord John Rus-
sell. &c.
The following Members were present :—H. A. Her-
bert, Captain Junes, J. 11. Moore, Sir E. Hl‘Naugli ten,
J. Follett, J. O'Connell, N. M. Power, Colonel Dunne,
Colonel Bruen, Sir J. Young, Viscount Castlereagh, Sir
W. Somerville, Sir E. Hayes, N. Alexander, Sir Lucius
O'Brien, F. French, C. St. George, the Hon. J. P. Max-
well, R. Dillon Browne, the Marquis of Kildare, T.
Meagher, J. T. Devereaux, Lord J. Chichester, J. Sad
lair, R. Keating, J. Greene, R. M. Bellew, M. Sullivan,
Sir A. Armstrong, P. S. Butler, F. Scully, Viscount
Milton, W. IL Maga!), A. O'Flaherty, Sir T. Burke,
Hun. 11. A. Cole, Captain Archdail, C. P. Leslie, R. I.
Tennant, Mr. T. M'Cullagh, Sir 1). Norreys, T. Bate-
son, R. S. Bourke, E. K. Tennison, W. Monsell, R. M.
Fox, Major Blackall, Right Hon. R. L. Sheil, Colonel
Rawdon, Hon. T. V. Dawson, M. J. O'Connell, Sir R.
!toward, Hon. C. Lawless.
The object proposed by Lord J. Russell,
in calling the
meeting was to obtain the sense of the Irish Members, or
their majority, upon the motion of which notice had been
given by Mr. Herbert, Member for the county of Kerry,
fur extending the property and income-tax to Ireland as
a substitute for the proposed rate in aid.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said--My Lord, before your Lord-
ship enters upon the business for which we have been
called together, there is one matter which I must advert
to—which I feel to be of considerable importance. Al-
though I am most willing to come here as an individual
Irish representative, your Lordship is well aware that I
am nut here of my own motion. I appear hero at your
Lordship's suggestion. Under these circumstances I
wish to know the position in which I stand. I have seen
in the Times newspaper a reference to the last interview
between the Irish Members and a Nobleman connected
with your Lordship's Government. I have seen an
official statement, or a statement purporting to be official,
purporting to be from authority, contradicting several
particulars which had appeared in a previous re-
port. Now as to the details of what had
occurred at that deputation I will say nothing—
because, though I was one who signed the
memorial, I was not one of the deputation. It cer-
tainly, however, appears to be an extraordinary assump-
tion, to say the least of it, that a member of tho Exe-
cutive should take upon himself to lecture members of
the Legislature—representatives of the people—in the
as I said, I shall say nothing upon that,
discharge of what they considered to be their public
dbut I uty.co Bmuet,to the official statement. It is stated that
Lord Clarendon intimated his intention to return an
answer to the deputation in writing. He made no such
intimation, nor was there any question raised as to his
doing so. But we have reason to believe that this is
not the first time that garbled reports of official inter-
views with Irish deputations have been furnished to
the newspapers, and we strongly recommend all official
persons, for their own protection, as well as for the
information of the public, never to undergo those or-
dealsis Lord,j in what way the Noble-
man in this, which pur-
ports to be an official statement, in offering what
ni
except in the presence of a short-hand writer.
I adn to
o notw homlallude know,
really is an insult to Members of the Legislature;
and what I have to ask of your Lordship is, do you
approve of such an imputation being cast upon us?
amyd
I should be sorry to think that your Lordship would ap-
prove of it. I see that a short-hand writer is present.
I have no objection to his being present, because there
may be mss • statements on both sides, as may have been
the Lilac on a recent occasion. I should be very sorry to
learn that your Lordship approves of that to which I
have now adverted. I have brought this forward as a
matter connected with personal feeling, and I ask your
Lordship, do you approve of such an imputation being
thrown upon us?
Lord JouN RUSSELL—With regard to what Mr. O'Con-
nell has said, I cannot answer with any precisun as to
what may have passed at an interview with another
member of the Government. I can only answer as re-
th the experience I have had of deputa-
spects myself, wi
tions that I certainly thought it necessary in a late deputa-
tion, to ask a gentleman, a Member of Parliament, who
was present, to show me an account which he thought
could be given to a newspaper, that I might see it
was correct before it was sent to the newspaper.
Ile was good enough to do so, and his account was
very correct, except that there was an omission of
some particulars which I thought were of importance.
I requested him to insert them, which he readily allowed
had been omitted, and the report was afterwards in-
serted in the newspapers. I must say, in regard to de-
putations, not Irish deputations especially, but deputa-
tions, English, Scotch, and Irish, that I think it is very
much the habit of those who come to the Minister with
deputations, to make a report of the proceedings, in
which all the arguments which seem to them forcible, and
which occur to them to urge, are generally very well
represented; but the answer f the Minister is not in
general so fully given. I have known in the case of de-
putations from Birmingham, from Liverpool, and other
places, reports to be given of what passed, in which the
Minister is made either to say, or to appear to acknow-
ledge, that he is completely overwhelmed by the argu-
ments, when certainly the impression upon my mind has
been totally different. I have, therefore, thought, with
regard to reputations which are composed of any consi-
derable number, it is advisable to have a correct report
of the proceedings. With regard to that particular de-
putation which has been alluded to, I must decline alto-
gether to give any answer. I was not present at it, and
1 cannot be required to give any explanation of it.
Mr. TENNENT—Since your Lordship has permitted
this subject to be mooted, I may take the opportunity of
saying one or two words. A. charge of misrepresenta-
tion has been made in the case of the Irish deputation
which has been alluded to. On one occasion when I
had the honour of being a member of a deputation to
your Lordship, a report appeared in the newspapers, a
day or two afterwards, which entirely misrepresented
both the speakers and that which they said. It repre-
sented the depotationas,inaking use of language, which
I have no hesltatiOn ' ' • -
In saying was, offensive, and was
entirely unfounded in fait. I theVainmunicated with
every member of the deputy ion, and witli every gentle-
man in the room, except
your Lordship and another
gentleman, and they entirely denied all knowledge of any
communication to the paper whatever.
Lord Jour; ItussELL—ln that instance, I think I had
reason to complain of the report.
Mr. O'CONNELL—I have only to add that I expressly
guarded. myself from entering into the subject of the
deputation itself. I am sorry your Lordship has not
expressed the opinion which I desired from you, but at
any rate I am glad you have not said that you agree in
the imputation which was specially cast upon Irishmen.
Lord JOHN ItlifiSELL—With regard to what passed
at that deputation, I give no opinion one way or the
other.

Viscount CASTLERICACIE—With reference to what fell
from Mr. O'Connell, I believe people are now getting
pretty well aware of the one-sided nature of the reports
in the Times with respect to Irish matters.
Lord Claren-
dondo not think it right to say any further as
time to
Mr. O'FLAIIERTY—I will beg to add but one word. I
is not present, than that I am ready
a t anyrred a t that
substantiate a great portion of what
deputation. Another opportunity
doing so.
,therefore, to the
Lord J. RUSSELL—I will now t
gentlemen pie-
object for which I have requ.estaeod
extraordinary stop
sent to meet me to-day.
It
Issk Irish Members of all
which I have taken thus to_a_
aye
apologise for any
may occur
octoccuurperhabpstolf
trouble haveih
given them; u
thought it might be of great advantage to them
really
and to their constituents, that we should know as mem-
parties tfoorattwenhdichmel
bers of the Government what the views of the Irish
Members are. You will recollect that in the early
part of the session the Chancellor of the Exchequer
hero.
moved for a grant of 50,0001. to relieve distress in certain
parts of Ireland in which there was great suffering, and
in which there did not appear to be local means suffi-
cient for the relief of those districts. In doing so we
followed the course which had been taken in 1822, and
some subsequent years, and which had been
taken in 1846, 1847, and 1848. It was objected, and ob-
jected not solely by members of one party, but objected
by gentlemen whose names will occur to you, to whom
I do not wish to refer as not being present, but Members
of the House of Commons of very different political par-
ties, that it was plain that the evil was increasing—that it
was not an occasional relief which was sought, but that
it was a relief going on from year to year, to be paid out
of the Imperial Exchequer for Irish distress. They,
there fo. e, thought that there should be some explana-
tion given, or some course adopted, by which the
House of Commons should be enabled to see what were
the prospects for the future, and some of them
expressed their hope that no further grants would be re-
quired. I was asked especially by a gentleman who is
the leader on the opposite side of the House, to state
that this was intended to be the last grant. I said I
certainly could not pledge myself that this should be the
last grant proposed by the Government, because we
mu,t act according to circumstances, and in any extra-
ordinary degree of distress which could not be otherwise
relieved, we would not preclude ourselves from asking
for a grant for that purpose. However, the opinion, I
think you will allow, in the House of dommons gene-
rally, was that there ought to be some course adopted
by which grants having been made for several
years, and the prospect being very uncertain as to the
sufficiency of local funds for the next year and the year
after, there should be some contribution made from Ire-
land more than was made in the last year for the pur-
pose of the relief of Irish distress. Now there were
two ways by which this could be effected ; the one was,
putting on a special tax or a special rate on Ireland, for
the occasion, snaking it limited in point of time, limited
in point of amount, arid leaving the country at the end
of that time with the immediate want supplied, and
without at all raising a precedent that should be injuri-
ous for the future. On the other hand, it was said that
such a precedent would be most injurious, that it would
Le a separation of Ireland, which was contrary to the
principles of the union; that the way in which the rate
was proposed to be raised would make it press more se
verely upon one class of persons, and upon one kind of
property, than upon others; and that the better course
was to consider whether there were any taxes which