The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-05 00:00:00

2,0e0/. for the National Vaccine Establishment.
2.0(1)1. for the ll,,rnge for the DPstitnte..
90:)/. tcen ptopo3cfl

renti

ut -1,, refu-gees,
Mr. REPTON said he thought it was time Pr
them to put an end to these Polish grants. He trusted
he would bo supported in his opposition to the vote by
those gentlemen who had of late raised so great a cry
throughout the country in favour of financial reform.
It was unnecessary for him to remind the Committee of
tho prominent part which the Poles had taken in the
revolntionary movements on the Continent during the
last twelve months; in all those movements they had
been prominent and distinguished actors—(" Hear, heat'
from some Honourable Member on the Ministerial side
of the House.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite might cheer
that statement; but he should remind them that there
might be a difference of opinion as to the value of the
notoriety which had thus been securer]. He did iior,
however, wish to say a word against the Poles in this
country who were the recipients of that grant. He W.
lieved that many of them were very excellent men; and
one of them, a nobleman who had distinguished himself
by his exertions for the relief of distress in the sister
country, was universally respected. But he certainly
thought that the Committee ought to insist on receiving
some information as to who were the recipients of thas
grant, and what was the mode in which it was dis•
tributed.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that a considerable revision of the list of the recipients
of that graut had taken place since last year. The
names of some of the parties had been struck out; others
had resigned; and to a third class it had been arranged
that no relief should be given beyond the present year.
The estimate of the grants to the Polish refugees last
year had been 8,7001.; this year, it was 7,390 L; and at
the expiration of this year it would be reduced to 2,8331.
He trusted the Committee would not withdraw the pre"
posed maintenance from parties who, if they were not Se
relieved, would necessarily become chargeable to the dil
ferent parishes as casual poor.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to know if vacancies
in the list were filled up ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that they were not.
The vote was then agreed to.
A sum of 6,423/. having been proposed for Protestant
Dissenters, and other miscellaneous allowances, formerly
payable out of the civil list.
Mr. C. LUSHINGTON said he had given notice at
the commencement of the session that he should uppose
any renewal of the regium donum. He found that when
the grant had been proposed last year a very strong op..
position had been made to it, both out of doors and-0
that House. But he was surprised to perceive thsS
during the present session the Dissenters had observed 11
complete silence upon that subject. Dist year petition's
had been presented from most influential bodies of Din'
minters against a continuance of the grant; but this year
there had been but one solitary petition to that effect
from one obscure village in Derbyshire. Under these
circumstances he felt very much puzz'ed what course 0.
adopt. He believed, however, on giving his beet 0001'3
deration to the matter, that he should bo acting herr:
perly in opposing a grant to the dissenting body to whicD_
they had themselves ceased to object.
Mr. WYLD said he understood that the sum of 1,604
which was proposed in that vote for Protestant Disseu`

ters, was not the regium donum, although it was a sum
for the same purpose. He believed the Dissenters wer
as much oppposed as ever to the grant, and that the *6l
reason they had not continued to petition against it let
that they saw very little use in addressing their prOYera,
to that House. He found by a Parliamentary rottsr2
that the sum voted under this head, and distributor*
amongst the clergymen of three denominations—lnde
pensents, Presbyterians, and Baptists, did not give more"
than 225. for each. What/ substantial relief could suet"'
assistance afford? The Dissenters of England reps'
dieted the grant, over which they had no control, ST
he hoped the Noble Lord at the head of the Goveruniesw
if he would not consent to abandon it on the present oe-
casion, would give a pledge that this insult to the dif;
senting body would be discontinued. If not, he shouP
feel compelled to divide the Committee.
Lord J. RUSSELL could certainly give no pledge,
tho kind. So far from this grant being forced on li).
;
Dissenters, the applications for assistance from it vies.
numerous, and it was distributed by Dr. Rees and othoil
of great respectability as a matter of charity. It tied
been given ever since the time of George I.; first out;)e
the civil list, and subsequently by Parliament. Pt
could not, therefore, give any promise that the gr.°l
would be withdrawn.
Mr. B. SMITH wished to , know whether the o°.
vernment had any objection to furnish a list of I".°
recipients ?
Mr. WYLD expressed his regret that the Noble Lod
should persevere in refusing to remove this stigma an!:
the dissenting body, who had always regarded LP"
Noble Lord with the most sincere respect. Could the
Noble Lord point to a single dissenting congregati66l
which would acknowledge that any of its ministers xt•
emu'
to relief from this grant? The recipients were uo
to be found among the three classes of Dissenters 1.;
which he had referred. The Wesleyans did not recoil
one farthing of it.
Mr. BRIGHT said that nothing could be mere errc';
neous than the inference that because no petitions be".
been presented, therefore the opinions of the Dissenti
had relaxed on the subject of the grant. They 133.4
made a considerable effort last year, and probably WA'
make another two or three years hence. With regard l°,
furnishing the names of the recipients, he thought i"
most unconstitutional that thousands of the publ,'°
money should be distributed amongst persons of whet/,
they knew nothing. Until the names were furnisbol'
he for one would never believe that a thousand Distal";
ing ministers had received relief from this source.
could promise the Noble Lord that the first list would ;11c:
the last; for either the parties would be deterred frq„
applying again by the force of public opinion, or the ti?'.
seating bodies to which they belonged would make
whatever might be necessary to maintain them in as '-
dependent and honourable position.
Mr. W. J. FOX said this was perhaps the only .1°
in the estimates which was opposed. by its nominal 're' it
plants. If the money must be granted, at all events
ought to be placed in the hands of those who represent 0,
the dissenting bodies for whose benefit it professed to no
The present mode of distribution was peculiarly open
abuse, of which instances were within his own 103°-
ledge. It was at all times made the means of conferrilo%
undue influence on certain individuals, and was not 80.
frequently used for the promotion of political ends. oil
sides this, it was a violation of a principle to which, OS
dissenters were firmly attached—namely, that no g""01
of public money ought to be made for the promotion:
any particular system of theology.
Mr. KERSHAW said he had taken some pall:Tao
ascertain the parties amongst whom this grant Was 0.4
tributed, but without success; and the conclusion.,yo
therefore forced upon him that it must either be fl'.,' to
to unworthy objects, or to individuals not belonging,,
the dissenting ministry at all. With regard to tba ossf
leged alteration in the feelings of the dissenters, he 'no
that since last year very strong resolutions had b
passed by those bodies against the grant. ta
Lord J. RUSSELL certainly did not think it rig as
give the names of those amongst whom the mono/ -lot
distributed; for he agreed with the Hon. Member go
Manchester in thinking that to publish them would ""i0
put a speedy end to the list. It would be the same !leo,
persons of any denomination to whom alms were glio,
If to any of these it were said—"l will give yoti
but I will publish your name in the votes of the WO
of Commons," who would accept the boon? He &lot
that the distribution of the money was made subserv'a
to political purposes, or for the purpose of est:iblisoio3
any sort of connexion between the dissenting bodies 51
the state, or, indeed, for any objects whatever bell"
those of Charity.
I,ina
Mr. BRIGHT still objected to this hems Focus ,P,„41
of system, under which no one could tell how the si
was distributed. The Noble Lord said it would u-gge
pity to expose the parties who participated in it; beo,ao
seemed to forget that he was not dealing with biss"
• money, but with that of the public.--(Hear, he arecl na
the Noble Lord choee to give Si. to the Church of
land, or any other church, every day, he had no objet' it
to it; but he had the greatest objection to his talttegiw
from those funds of which the Chancellor of the ere
chequer was the trustee for the nation, and which
with difficulty raised by taxes on the community' iv'
whom they often pressed with great inequality enep
justice. If the Noble Lord was as much a DiesenSei,raed
he used to be—(Laughter)—he-believed the Noble wee
used to attend a dissenting chapel until Hon. Geljtj!f th°
opposite put a stop to it— (Cheers and laughter)--1 the Noble Lord knew as well as he (Mr. Bright) did, tof
feeling of Dissenters, he would be aware that a gran
this kind was not in accordanae with their policy.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—.
For the vote
For the amendment 33
Majority
The vote. was then agreed to, as were also-
-1,0001. for the Dublin Fever Hospital
12,0934 for the House of Industry, Dublin.
On the vote of 8002 for the Female Orphan AsYltiatrie'll.
Mr. FAGAN complained that the•vote was notdistributed among the female orphan children of vt! cee
The children received in the asllum were edeeatenvo
elusively in the Established religion, and when chiluto
of the Roman Catholic religion were brought bite 00
institution, he knew that they were brought up ,0105
religion of the Established Church. He contendeouog •
the Roman Catholic population were entitled to 6,6"t0e
in the grant, and he should feel it his duty to divia."ericua
Committee on the grant, unless his Right lion'
flre
the Secretary for Ireland would give him somoassl7olo
that the Catholic orphans of Ireland would peruc'
in the grant.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE admitted that the vote oaf
of an exclusive character. It had been voted for lt..;iao,
long time, and was in the course of annual cleatlain it
and it would he a great hardship to discontin"-
suddenly.
Major BLACKALL said the institution was not , etir
59
ported exclusively by a grant from the Goverialne
there was a large sum subscribed for its support. don;
Mr. FAGAN hoped some hope would be beh. °
neo
that the grant would bo increased in the way -"-
sugThgested. do
oP
'e CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
og- h
iv re'
on the contrary, that the vote would be sooll"" •
duced.
The vote was then :greed to, as were also—.
2,2501. for the Lock Hospital, Dublin.
800/. for the Lying-in Hospital.
1,500/. for Steven's Hospital, Dublin.
3,8001. for the Cork-street Fever Hospital.
500/. for the Hospital of Incurables. aceditg,
On the vote of 37,1831. for non-conforming.
S'
and Protestant dissenting ministers in Ireland, a thi4
Mr. TRELAWNY said if the House sanctiosettaesge
vote, they ought to go a step further and pay the
of Ireland. The vote was clearly not one of curd pot
principles; but it was a question whether it eren,isagc6
be advisable to make some effort to secure the tr,,,,,-pay
of the, priests, as the friends of order in Ireland,