The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDAV, 1114 r 8.
Earl SHAFTESBURY tdisis his teat on the Woolsack as Deputy
Speaker at Five o'Clock, avSn the several Bills on the table were ad-
vanced a stage.
Lord MARYBOROUGH presented a petition from the Grand Jury
Of Queens County, praying that the relief to be given under the Irish
Poor Law Bill might be confined to the lame and blind,
POOR LAW LOAN BILL.
014110 Motion of the Earl of RADNOR the above Bill was read a
second time.
The Bistop of EXETER presented a petition from the Baptist Con..
8r Then
of Manchester, and several other places, praying for the im.
Ulorliate abolition of the system of Negro apprenticeship.
The ArrortNey-GENEner. and others, from the Commons, brought
up the Glasgow and Edinburgh Railway Bill.
The Marquis of SLIGO presented numerous petitions, praying for
he abolition of the system of Negro apprenticeship in the West Indies.
CATHOLIC OATHS.
The Duke of WELLINGTON, seeing a Noble Earl in his place who
had given notice of a motion on the above subject, wished to know
Whether be intended to take the opinion of the House upon the sub.
jest, If s; he begged to suggest that the Noble Earl should state his
Lutention that night, and bring on his motion on a future day.
The Earl of SHREWSBURY said his intention was to show, in mos*.
og for the papers, that the oath had not been repudiated at
me, and lie did not mean to take the sense of the House
by a resolution or otherwise. He would there ore bring the subject
Under the notice of the House that night.
The Bishop of EXETER presented a petition from Clarte, in Suffolk,
theed by 5,000 persons, stating that the petitioners viewed with alarm
encroachments of Popery, and praying that their Lordships
would repeal the Relief Bill of 18.9, and that they would not agree
to any further grant to the College cf Maynooth.
Lord BERESFORD presented a petition from the Grand Jury of the
!P.RhtY of Carlow praying that all relief should be confined in IreLnd
to the s'ck, the aged, and infirm.
Lord LORTON presented a politico from a place in the county cf
Antrim against the new system of education In Ireland.

CATHOLICS' OATHS.
The Earl of SHREWSBURY apologised to the House for troubling
t for a few moments. The Noble Earl then proceeded to read an ex-
ttract from a Roman Catholic document, to the effect that Roman Catho-
enwere quite justified in taking the oath of 1829. The Noble Earl next
an extract from a document from the `oVicar's Apostolic," showing,
read the Pop. did not approve of the formula of the oath of 1829,
he did not condemn the taking it. He read a letter from Dr. Murray
len the same subject, which stated that though the Roman Catholic Pre-
ates did not condemn the oath—though he, as an individual, must say
that he thought it unnecessary and insulting—he thought it quite clear
that the oath in question was as effectual now as it was at the first. He
must express his regret that men could be found to bring forward such
serious charges against against a large body of Christians oresuch loose
!and slender grounds. It was, he suspected, touch mere painful to
dm (the Earl of Shrewsbury) to hear such charges than it was to the
Rev. Prelate to utter them. They were degrading and insulting. He would
not disguise from their Lordships that his conviction was, that their Lord_
chips
-e their own
must eitherdisfranchise ths Catholics altogether, or allow them to ex.
interestsas to what was or what was
judgment
of the Cherch. Heaven knows that there were dissensions
e
enoughalready
among religious bodies, without giving new causes for
dissension. The Noble Earl then proceeded to remark in severe terms
on the conduct of the Right Rev. Prolate in systematically traducing
the Roman Catholics. All the calumnies of three centuries were now
i st
raatkeehtl up and
charged
on that body of Christians. The Right Rev. Pre.
gedd the Roman Catholic priesthood ac labouring to
deroyad even m
the obligations of an oath. Others, again, had got up meetings
for the purpose of vilifying the religion of one-third of the inhabitants of
this ernpire, where no one was allowed to gainsay or expose their calum.
flies and misrepresentations. These calumnious aspersions on the Ro.
lean Catholic religion carried folly and absurdity in their face. That
religion was embraced by 150,000,000 of men, many
4/1' Europe, of them the most
1 and had that religion been so vicious as retire.
aented, they would never have adopted its principles. He implored
of, their Lordships to discountenance and put an end to these
c unkinlY feelings and unjustifiable misrepresentations, that men
orge atlilwdr.enqininations might thus live in harmony and happiness
The Noble Earl then proceeded to point out the doubtful
ctlearacter of some of those persons two or three hundred years ago, whom
Rhethan night Rev. Prelate had quoted in support of his statement, that the
Catholics were persons of suspicious loyalty. He also showed
that the Right Rev. Prelate had again perverted quotations. The Right
It• v. Prelate had brought discredit on himself, instead of fixing odium
the Catholics, Roman thecharges he brought against the latter.
11is (the
Bishop of Exeter's) intention in referring to the alleged mis.
eaelduct of the Roman Catholics of two or three hundred years ago, was
te leael their Lordships to believe that the same charges might be brought
against the Roman Catholics of the present day. He had tortured the
-false and frantic ravings of some men into a charge against millions of
Christians; and lie (the Earl of Shrewsbury) must say that he neither
envied the end he had in view, nor the means he adopted to accomplish
that end. He would ask whether the number of mistakes the Right
'ley. Prelate had fallen into had been the result of accident ? He
Nvould now move for copies of letters, the opinions expressed by the
Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland, relative to the Catholic oath of
1829.

Lord VAUX complained of the way in which the Right Rev.
there
made attacks on the Roman Catholics of such a nature that
was no possibility of answering them. If he did not think the
Presem sufficiently binding, why did he not propose some better and
More effective oath.
The Bishop of EXETER did not complain of any harshness in the
Observations which had been made in reference to him ; but he was
surprised that the Noble Earl should have charged him with imputing
443' disregard of oaths to him ; for it must be recollected that he had
been specially careful to guard against any one supposing that he
.'cant anything of the kind.—(hear, hear, hear.) He had stated
distinctly that he was satisfied no one could be more careful in the
observance of the Roman Catholic oath of 1829 than he was,
or any other oat? which he would engage himself to observe. The
Right Reeserend I'relate then proceeded to state and quote various
extracts from em:nent Catholic authors of the 17th century
to shew that the Roman Catholics did not in all cases consider oaths to
be binding. The Noble Earl had endeavoured to fasten upon him wil.
ful inaccuracy or suppression of documents; but an opponent was prone
to make a false estimate of the arguments of his adversary. He (the
Bishop of Exeter), however, in order to prove what he had asserted,
would not go back to the oaths of :James I. or Charles I. Ho
Would begin with the present state of the law of the coun-
til. In the reign of George 111. was the first time there had been a
=emission of the penal statutes, and oaths in reference to this were pre.
scribed by the 13th George 111. The Right Rev. Prelate then
'entered into long details respecting Catholic oaths and dispensations.
14 considered that the documents he had read proved that the power of
'she Pope was recognised to declare what oaths were lawful, and that he
mould dispense with them when they were contrary to the utility of the
Church. The Noble Earl had stated that he (the Bishop of Exeter)
wag wrong in his charge as to bad faith kept in Ireland as to the oath of
supremacy ; but let bins read the history of the Irish civil wars, and he
would find if that were the case. He would now say a word as to him-
self and his opinions as to this country, and that unhappy one beyond St.
George's Channel, and in this respect he would only say, that he was
as sincerely desirous of peace in these countries as the Noble Earl could
be, but he would not whisper " peace," when there was none, and there
Could be none, until truth and honesty were permitted to prevail.
(Rear, hear.)

Lord STOURTON complained of the observations that had been re-
• Peatedly made as to the disregard by the Roman Catholic.; of the obli.
Ration of oaths.

, -- ----
the Marl of WINCHILtiBi and Lord LoaroN made a few observation.,
after which

Lord MELBOURNE said that the papers asked for consisted of a
~,t.carresPondence with ecclesiastics, private letters. To produce then
~"..°llld be a very unusual course, and a very Inconvenient precedent. If
I`7shre adopted, then any Noble Lord would only have to writo a letter,
wtw afterwards to move for it, and then it would be produced and printed
ho
sanction of the House. He was quite sure that all would see
'enoeonient it would be to adopt any such motion.
eh
I Earl of SHREWSBURY, after having briefly replied, said he
Vrad press his motion.—Motion
,aa7te Bills having been brought• fromwithdrawn. the Commons, and the re-
business being disposed of, the House adjourned at Eight

IIOUSE OF COMMONS, MAY 8.
Th ,
u„: was not opened to-day till '2O minutes after Four o'clock,
"st quence of so Ballots being fixed for to-day, but they were
not prone ceded in
. me
bla I re,
the seated Member for Hull, took the oaths and his seat.
D(rWATERFORD ELECTION.
In eO,2SILES. tne Chairman of the above Committee; reported, that
„nix eqUence of the returning officer for Waterford City not having
i„ hie affidavit to the Poll-books, they being objected to, could not
e 'areitted. It appeared to the Committee that the omission was
effieely accidental and therefore on zreplication by the petitioner, they
„.7 groed to postpone the enquiry until Monday, for the purpose of
P•-ning the deficiency, and he trusted that the House would not insist
on Ow attendance of the Committee day by day. He, therefore,
that :the Committee have. leave to adjourn till Monday.
aitibol_r• 0' CO NNELL hoped the House would not agree to the propo-
Cati n justice to the sitting Me:nber they must refuse the appli-
-1,18
coasne as the petitioner ought clearly to have been prepared to prove
for Atr. Al Lerman COPELAND
said the Hon. and Learned Member
Dublin was mistaken. The poll-books had been produced, but they
could not I )e admitted, because they were not verified by the affidavit
Of the rettatning officer not being affixed to them.
Mr. MILES would not have considered it necessary to give any
:answer to the Honourable Moocher, but for statement that the Corn.
rn.qtee were el to 3.—(Cheers.) Now he could' inform the Honourable
keenber a fact which he perhaps was not aware of, that the
C •
°Tnriatttee :had come to several resolutions, and upon every one
they 1., h
f tem unanimous.—(Loud cheers.) All that he asked
11°:,.. Was that the House, in courtesy, would not call upon the Com-
ar'_'ae to sit for the purpose of doing nothing every day, but would
t,trr It to to e 1 4th : if that reasoable request nth, he mustth adjouru the Committeen de die in diem. were not
e• 9 Sp' ?AKER inquirtad if it was the intention of Hon. Members to
eivetep
he. epee,
',NNELL--I believe not.
ava Yves then given to the Committee to adjourn.
HOLBORN BRIDGE ROAD BILL.
did
" ..-aaLWIAMS objected to the further proceeding of the Bill. Ho
ntte, 'Von the ground that the street it wes intended to establish was
'"elease It was proposed by the Bill to pay the expense of he
atC°Ve-`tsitit, as it was called, by a tax to be levied upon the carts,dan
„re:: thivsbeilonging to thecommon freemen going in and out of LoAnldcare
lean like these, ought to be resisted by the House. Let the Hon.e id
dee hew that a. ny utility would be derived from this street.
"our.
teehre-
„reY that the tea sinus of the street was in a dirty street calledd
healf 7-
/fuel!" the browit, h of
artwhch was not more than
ontowo yards every
The
titizewrits ill were Car, ned,, ax would be levied arts for
when of London. sere looking with great anxiety
.for the time,
I,ea Governme;at ivould reform the Corporationa.s—te
him
a Ter' hear.) Why they had not hitherto done so, was
d Ystery.
I,llt.rxet. ore
job 4 tliere had been more corrup practices
g in the Corporation of London than all the other Cor-
the c'fla in Ee.gland.—(Cheers.) He called on the House to relieve
eriev
I "zens of London from
this day six months. this additional attack on their pockets, and
tlitee.derman Si
that the Billbe read
r M. WOOD said his Honourable Friend (Mr. Wil-
%arti) when member of the Corporation of London, had
ci .a
Patee in jobs at least as bad as the preseeit—if it was
s Ire (Alderman Wood) denied—for the tax which
'oteered
nei—ralaine
taken'
, had been long t prope te Corporation, and
'ae.d not be f ' from hem; sohe that therty ctof fa wahs, the Corporation
the
*apense. Pnblic a sreat advantage at their (the Corporation's) own
WOOD thee House wow g d o into Committee on the Bill.
:heCar•A'n said he should oppose the committal of the Bill, on
ground that the preambea, stating that it was to effect a cornmunica-
ition with the great northern rc
_atter to was delusive, and that it would be
InalcrovecelOn4trs ne the consideratLen of the subject till the Metropolitan
Committee (now sitting) had made its report.
Mr. WILLIAMS denied that he 1;,,,X1 ever participated in any jobs of
Corporation cf London.
5110 Dlr. 'WARBURTON had been g,enera me in
ely are to the ea.
of Proposal by his Honourable Friend this Member for the City
1-"4". So far as the proposition vent to widen the streets
or Abe City of re diea
--m he had no objection whatever, but he deeidedly
elakuceece to the manner in which the money was to he levied. If it was
1),"°" to lay a tax by Act of Parliament upon the freemen and the
teoa- free, aten, he would not complain ; but this was an attempt to con-
°Al,'dsivay-tlie Levying eta tax upOn the carts of the non-freemen.

He thought the House was indebted to his Hon. Friend the Member
for Coventry for having brought under their notice the clause in question.
Mr. HUME thought it important that these improvements should be
carried into effect and it was rather a premature step to prevent the Bill
going into Committee, when other means for levying the tax might be
devised. He would suggest to the Hen. Gentleman the propriety of al-
lowing the Bill to go into Committee, when the clause might be
modified.
Sir F. TRENCH quite agreed with what had fallen from his Hon.
Friend the Member for Kilkenny—(A laugh)—and hoped the Bill
would be allowed to go into Committee.
Mr. WILLIAMS said if the Hon. Baronet nominated him upon the
Committee, he would have no objection to withdraw his amendment.
Mr. WA K LEY could not understand why it was that this 13111 had not
been sent before the Metropolitan Improvement Committee in the
first instance.—(Hear, hear.) Although he was anxious the improve.
ment should be made, he could not agree to the clause in its present
shape being allowed to stand in the Bill, and therefore he would not
vote against the Bill being referred to the Committee, because as he
would be one of the Committee, he should resist any scheme of the kind.
Mr. HANDLEY should oppose the Bill going into Committee.
After a few observations from Captain WOOD and Mr. ATTORNEY-
GENERAL,
The gallery was cleared for a division.
No division took place, the amendment having been negatived with.
out a division.
Mr. HAWES moved that the Bill be canmited to a private Com-
mittee.
Mr. WARBURTON thought that there would be great difficulties
in referring the Bill to a private Committee. He thought the better
course to adopt would be to postpone the committal of the Bill till the
Committee on Public Improvements in London could take it into consi-
deration. He moved that the Bill be committed that day three months.
The SPEAKER suggested that the motion be for the adjournment of
the debate to that period.
Mr. WARBURTON accordingly so framed his motion.
Alderman WOOD said he thought the Committee on Metropolitan
Improvements would not be able to find a more advantageous oflbr, than
was made by the Corporation to defray the expenses of the proposed al-
teration from their own funds.
Sir G. STRICKLAND considered the public greatly indebted to the
Hon. Baronet (Sir M. Wood) for his exertions to effect Metropolitan
Improvements; and he (Sir G. S) should support this Bill.
Captain WOOD thought the Hon. Baronet, the Member for the City
of London, had been treated most ungraciously by the Hon. Members
opposite. The proposition was to make a fine street, and for that pur-
pose a tax was bo be levied upon carts entering the City with provi-
sions. To that he thought no reasonable objection could be made.
_ _ .

Sir DE LACY EVANS supported the second reading of the Bill.
Mr. SLANEY was of opinion that it would benefit the adjacent dis-
tricts, as well as more immediately those resid:ng within the narrow
precincts of the line through which the road would run. As it would
be of great advantage to the humbler classes of the community, be
would decidedly support it.
Mr. WILLIAMS said the Middlesex Magistrates had refused to take
any steps in the matter, although frequent applications had been made
to them by the Corporation of London for that purpose.
Alderman COPELAND would give his decided support to the Bill.
Sir M. WOOD replied—The Magistrates of Middlesex, at a large
meeting lately held, had expressed a desire that the measure should be
carried.
The amendment was negatived without a division.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed.

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, MAY 9, 1838.

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well-selected articles than is to be found In any other of the Weekly
l'res3.
"---SteekPort Advertiser.
Gardener's Gazette' is one of the most unexceptionable and
' —York Chronicle.
The `Garde ler's Gazette'
useful fa :tilt' newspapers."—Sheilield Iris.
" We wish , God speed to the continued efforts of the ' Gardener's
Gazette.: I'l'e '
really
is a wrekty paper of no ordinary interest."
—Leicester Mercury. ..The ' Gardener's Gazette' is devoted principally to Ecorticulture,
and we desire to-see it encouraged."—Halifax Express.
From the combined talent, cheapness and usefulness of this publica-
tion, we are certain that it will command an extensive chreatation/
' York Herald.

The 'C-:arclene?'s Gazette' ought to I'e in the hands of every man."—
Cariisle Journal.
Tho Gardener's Gazette' contains a mass of useful information."—
North Devon Advertiser.
Gardener's Gazette' is an excellent Ncwspkiper."—Boston
Herald.

" We feel great pleasure lu recommending to our readers the ' Gar-
delwr's Layette.'—Bolton Free PreS.f.

THE MAY
C OL BUR N'S
MAGAZINE AN
EDITED BY THEODOF
The Gurney Papers. By the
Editor.
The Plain Green Chariot. By
the Hon. E. Phipps.
The Mother's Grave. By the
Author of " Outward Bound."
Ancient Days. By M. .1. Quin,
Esq. Author of" Nourmahal."
Subjects for Pictures. By Miss
Landon.
My First Visit to Brussels. By
T. C. Grattan, Esq. •
Notes on the Early French
Actors.
The Decencies of English Life.
Henry Colburn, Pnblislter, 1