The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-13 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY 'EVENING, JUNE 13, 1819.

The Bishop of OXFORD presented several petitions
praying for the adoption of measures tor the suppression
of the slave trade.
Lord STANLEY presented a petition from the ship-
owners of Quebec against the repeal of the navigation-

laws.
Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from an old
soldier named Parker complaining that he was entitled to
a pension of Is. a day, whereas he had been reduced to a
pension of lid. a-day.
FRENCH EXPEDITION TO ROME.
Lord BEAUMONT rose to ask the Government a
question with respect to the expedition of the French
against Rome. The French President, in his Message,
had said that the foreign policy of France had been sup-
ported by the English Government; and bethought, there-
fore, he was justified in asking the Government whether
they had been concerned in any way in approving of the
expedition? The intentions professed by the French had
been most contradictory. They had said it was
for the protection of the Roman territories, and to
prevent the invasion of foreign powers. Then they said it
had been to restore the fugitive Pontiff. Their first act
had been to attack Rome, which had been followed by
the incursion of an Austrian force, and now Rome
had been again attacked, and was deluged with
blood, and so far from restoring the Pontiff, they
had declared that Rome had an undoubted right to choose
her own Government. To this the Triumvirate replied,
that Rome had already chosen her Government. Through-
out the straightforward conduct of the Roman Triumvirate
contrasted must favourably with that of the French, for
the negotiations of M. de Lesseps were in direct contra-
diction with the conduct and assertions of General Oudi-
not. A Congress of the Catholic Powers had been held
at Gaeta, at which a joint intervention had been agreed
upon. The French, however, deceived Austria and
Naples, and 'entered alone. The King of Naples invaded
the Roman territory, but from nut finding himself
supported by the French, and having no intention of
fighting a battle alone, according to his usual plan took
to rapid flight. Still the Romans could not understand
this sort of brotherly protection which the French
offered them, and which had not been paralleled
since Cain and Abel. The consequence had been
that Bologna had been taken by the Austrians.
Ancona was at this moment bombarded by them, and
the French were at Rome. France had declared that
she would guarantee lay government to Rome if the
Pontiff were restored, and Austria bad acknowledged
the necessity of it; but now came out allocutions from
the Pope, declaring that he never had and never would
submit to lay government, so that •it appeared that all
that had been done by the Powers at Gaeta had been to
deceive the Pope and to deceive each other.
The Earl of DEVON rose to order, and put it to the
House if it was necessary that the Noble Lord should
enter into the details.
Lord BEAUMONT would confine himself to the
question, whether any communication had taken place
from the French Government on the subject of the ex-
pedition since it landed at Civita Vecchia, whether
any advices had been given by the Government to
France on the subject, or whether Government could
explain the motives or objects of the French Govern-
ment in that expedition?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that this Goe
vernment had taken no part in the expedition. Before,
it had sailed the Government was informed that such an
expedition would sail to Civita Vecchia for the purpose
of restoring tranquillity to Rome. To that the Govern-
ment did not object, but it offered no advice, and had
kept completely aloof ; and so it continued to remain.
This country had no right to interfere ; at the
same time it had not beheld with indiffer-
ence the expulsion of the Sovereign Pontiff,
but had expressed a wish for the restitution of the Pon-
tiff, by means of negotiation, at the same time giving a
safeguard for the liberties of the people. He believed
that expedition had been undertaken by France, on its
own responsibility, without consulting with the other
Powers.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said that if the written
cemmuuication from France were communicated to the
House, it would perhaps throw some light on this subject,
had no other communication taken place since. He
could scarcely believe, considering the entente cordiale
that was said to exist between the two Governments,
that no further communication had taken place from
France, explsnatory of the intentions of France in dis-
patching that expedition.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, that if he bad
had notice et the question he should have been prepared
to answer it more fully.
Lord BROUGHAM considered that his Noble Friend
could never have considered that an expedition to restore
order was to stop at Civita Vecchia.
A NOBLE LORD—Ancona.
Lord BROUGHAM—Ancona was a perfectly different
case. In allusion to the French President's Message,
he would say, whoever drew it up, that it was a model of
judicious explanation, and of equally judicious conceal-
ment.—(Hear, hear,) He was delighted in that Message
to see the passage relating to England; and he concluded
from that tnat England bad approved of all that France
had done, but it appeared from these explanations that
that meaning could not be attached to that passage.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUG El wished to know
whether the communication regarding the sailing of the
expedition was simply acknowedged, or whether it was
stated that her Majesty's Government did not object to
the departure of the expedition. There was one ob
servation which bad fallen from the Noble Marquis, in
reference to which he begged permission to say a few
words. As he understood the Noble Marquis, he said
that this country was differently situated, acd had not
the same interest in this question that the Catholic
countries of Europe had. Now be (the Earl of Ellenbo-
rough) could not altogether agree in that opinion. It
was quite true that we were nut a Catholic state, and
might not, therefore, feel that personal interest in the
position of the Pope which was felt by Catholic powers;
but we had 8,000,000 of Roman Catholic fellow-subjects,
and it was as much an object of interest to us as it could
be to any one of the Catholic powers of Europe, that
the Pope should be in a position of independence—that
he should not be so situated as to to be dependent upon
the bounty or upon the power of any one, or of any com-
bination of the powers of Europe. That was surely of
as deep an interest to us as it could be to either Austria
or Naples. The question was not whether the Pope, as
the sovereign of Rome, should or should not reside and
rule there; but whether the person who happened to be
at the head of the Roman Catholic religion should main-
tain a position of independence; and it appeared to him
(the Earl of Ellenborough) to be a matter of the deepest
importance that he should meintain that independence.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE need not say in that
Hotise that they had no spiritual connexion with the
Pope. In that House it was well known that they had
always disclaimed such a connexion, and not only die-
claimed it, but avowed an intention never to establish it.
—(Hear, hear.) He was, therefore, fully justified in
stating, in the precise words he htsel used, that in one
important aspect, namely, the religious aspect, we had
not the same interest that was felt by other countries in
the question. But he quite admitted that we had very
great interest of a political nature; and it was in refer.
ence to that interest of a political nature that he stated
that the views entertained by her Majesty's Govern-
ment were, that it was most desirable that
the Pope should be restored to the possession of his
power at Borne, resuming that power, however, upon
conditions, which would be likely to ensure its continu-
ance, and which would meet with the approbation and
concurrence of his subjects ; and that, at the same
time, this object might best be promoted by
negotiation, and by avoiding, if possible, having
recourse to arms.—(Hear.) With regard to the pro-
duction of papers, had he been aware that this conversa-
tion was to have come on, he should have been glad of
the opportunity to state the exact terms of the commu-
nication which had been received from the French Go-
vernment. But when the Noble Earl went further, and
asked if he would produce all that had passed upon the
subject, he must say that he was not prepared to do so
Without first institutites, an examination of them.
The Duke of BEAUFORT presented several peti-
tions from Derby and other places in favour of the Bill
for the protection of women; also a petition agreed to
at the county meeting, held at Gloucester on Saturday
last, complaining of agricultural distress, and praying
relief.
The Earl of CARLISLE presented petitions from
Gloucester, York, Cardigan, Durham, and other places,
in favour of the Commons' Inclosure Bill.
Earl NELSON presented a petition against the Par-
liamentary Oaths Bill from a place in Somersetshiro.
Oa the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, the Select
Committee on the Incumbered Estates Bill was nomi-
nated.
THE REPEAL OF THE NAVIGATION-LAWS.
On the order of the day for the third reading of this
Bill being read,
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said he had, in the
course of a not very short Parliamentary life, been fated
to see many measures injurious to the interests of -the
country proposed and carried, but never had it been his
duty to oppose one which he believed more fraught with
danger to the very existence of the country, and on that
account he must, even at this last stage of the Bill, with
no hope of defeating it, offer his opposition to the repeal
of the navigation-laws. He would not go into the
general argument on the Bill, but would merely make a
few suggestions which ought to be adopted. It was but
just and fair that ship building should be relieved by
drawback upon the duty on timber and other articles
used in that business, and also that the masters and
mates of merchant ships should be subjected to exami-
nation, and in case of the loss of a ship that the officers
and crew should be subjected to trial, just as under similar
circumstances officers in the navy were tried by a court-
martial, and when they were found incompetent or ne-
glectful, that they should be punished by imprisonment,
the insurance vitiated, and the owner of the vessel sub-
jected to a pecuniary fine for having employed such in-
competent persons to manage his vessel. Last session a
Bill had been introduced to makeprovtihsieomn foonr worn-out
seamen seamen of the merchant service, and it was desirable that
funds should be found for that purpose,. for his part he
would have no objections' to place
footing as the pensioners at Greenwich Hospital. There
was another measure which he wished strongly to recom-
mend to the Government, that there should be a re-
registration of the merchant ships. In 1847 it -was stated
that there was a tutelage of 3,200,000 in that service. He
doubted the accuracy of that statement, and he found in
that year there were at sea 2,400,000 tons, of which
there was an amount of 200,000 tonnage absent from the
country for one year. The result of his investigation
was, that they had not at that time a tonnage of 3,200,000,
but a tonnage of 2,600,000. The error arose from ships
that
remaining on the register which were worn out and de-
ashipping
stroyed. The Government should look to this, and take
means to correct this error. It statedpwassengr s,they would
e a great
amount
o fnavigationton n
agaes.
increase had taken place in the carriage of goods;i pp
ibutned in our g
when they considered that the ste
employedwfindasthatririot
t the
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w goodsit oh theas aa
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He did not think the merchant shipping was over-
manned, and lie was sure shipowners would not consult