The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-14 00:00:00

Member for Limericlf ‘Mr. J. O'Connell) was entitled
to the inquiry ho asked for, especially V Were was
such a difference of opinion upon the facts sought to
be ascertained. He should, therefore, support the
motion.
Colonel DUNNE hoped that the motion would be put
off to next session.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL withdrew his motion.
SUPPLY.
The House then went into Committee.
Sir R. PEEL said his duty would be sufficiently per-
formed by placing in the hands of the Chairman the vote
for the British Museum, amounting to 42,9151.
Mr. HUME said he was gratified to see that the
number of visitors had increased, and the library had
become more accessible.
i He looked foward to the re-
port of the Committee which was sitting upon this in-
stitution with much interest. While upon this subject
he might urge that steps should be taken to give the
rooms now occupied by the Royal Academy, in the Na-
tional Gallery, to the acomodation of the Vernon col-
lection. He anticipated other similar presents in a short
time, and provide to encourage this feeling the Govern
moat would p suitsble accommodation. The Royal
Academy was rich enough to erect a proper edifice of its
own for the carrying out of its objects, without occupy-
ing the rooms intended for the national collection.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the subject had
not been lost sight of, for he had moved for a Committee,
which had been appointed, and he looked forward to its
report next session, with a view to meet the public con-
venience.
Mr. FOX said it was an error to say that the readers
in the library of the British Museum had increased. The
means of accommodation plight be greatly increased, but
he would reserve the point till the discussion should
come on next session.
Mr. EWAR r wished to know when they might ex-
pect the report of the Committee? With respect to the
Royal Academy, it was expressly understood, that when
the public should require the rooms they occupied they
should be given up.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that there was a growing
disposition on the part of. the public to avail themselves
of the benefits of the British Museum. Every facility
was given to view the works of art consistent with their
safe custody. There was a very serious loss the other
day of valuable coins. The returns showed a yearly
increase in the visitors to the print-rooms and the mu-
seum.
Mr. EWART said that there had been a falling off in
the reading-rooms of visitors, the number now being
5,000 less than in 1542.
Mr. HUME said that very considerable d,fficulties
bad arisen from want of a good catalogue of reference,
which he hoped the Committee wuuld suggest the means
to obviate.

The vote was agreed to, as were also the following:-
112,8001. fur the disembAlied militia in England and
Ireland.

119,950/. for the excess of the army expenditure.
59,9001. for defraying the charge of the New Houses
of Parliament to 1850.

Mr. HUME would like to know if that was the entire
vote for the year?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was the balance of the vote originally proposed for the

year.
Mr. HUME asked if it would not be batter to take
a larger sum of money, and carry the works on more
rapidly?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the Government at one time had determine.' to proceed
more slowly, but they found that certain contracts had
been entered into, which could not be stopped without
great loss; it had therefore been resolved that they
should be pr Jeeeded with, but that no new works should
be entered upon without the sanction of the Treasury.
Mr. HUME said, that he feared after all the expense
they had gone to they would not have a house tit fur the
transaction of public business. The Committee rooms
were not ventilated; it was difficult to hear in them, and
he hoped that was not a sample of the new house.
Another point was the remuneration to the architect.
He found by the paper on the table an application for
more money. He trusted the Chancellor of the Exche-
crer would take care that the business would be arranged
in such a manner as not to induce the architect to spend
money. He thought there was great cause to complain
of the excess over the original estimate.
Mr. SPOONER urged the necessity for the more
speedy completion of the buildings. They had already
spent 192,7601. on the temporary buildings required by the
House and its officers.—(Hear, hear.) In addition, by
the slow way they were proceeding, it made the cost of
the building from 12 to 15 per cent. dearer than it would
otherwise be. The public were injured by the dilatory
mode in which the works were carried on, and at the
same time the contractor was injured. He entered upon
the works on the faith that they would be carried for-
ward as rapidly as possible. He made all his arrange-
ments, and engaged an efficient staff of clerks, superin-
tendents, and workmen, in order to carry on the works
on the original scale, and when he had invested 20,0001.
in this way, without any return for it, he thought that if
he made a claim fur interest on that amount, the House
would be bound in equity to grant it. The longer they
delayed the building, the more it would cost; and if the
elowing account of the pr ssperity of the country, with
which the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad lately
favoured the House, was accurate, or it the Rlght Hon.
Baronet had any faith in his own statements, he thought
be was bound to go into the money market and raise the
necessary sum to complete the building as speedily as
possible. He was certain that was the best economy.
Mr. HUME thought that what the Hon. Gentleman
had stated deserved serious consideration. They ought
to have two objects in view, economy and accommoda-
tion. Economy certainly was not attained by their pre-
sent course. They had spent nearly as much already for
temporary accommodation as the amount of the estimate
he laid before the Committee for building both Houses of
Parliament.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted
that the sum for temporary accommodation was very
large, but its expenditure had been indispensable. He
hoped that next year the sum under this head would bs
materially reduced. As to the financial statement on
the state of the country, he would not go into that, but
merely give his opinion that it would not be judicious to
take a loan for carrying on the buildings more rapidly.
After a few words from Mr. SPOONER and Mr. HUME,
in explanation,
Mr. EWART expressed a hope that something would
be done to the C emmit tee-rooms ; they were not only un-
ventilated, but extremely deficient in accommodation.
He had very great respect for the architect, but he
thought that he should at least have consulted with
those who were to inhabit the building. If he had con
stilted the old Members of the House he would have
found the necessity for providing each Committee-4.0.ml
with a retiring room for the Committee, instead of which
the whole of the counsel, soliciters, agenis, wit!w,l?,,t4,
and the public, had to be turned into the lobbies when-
ever the Committee wished to deliberate.—(Hear, hear.)
He feared that if the new House was constructed with a
similar absence of attention to the practical revirements
of the Members, they would suffer great inconvenience
after an enormous expenditure.
Mr. GREENE (as wo understood) said that in one or
two rooms a division had been made by means of a
scre.n, which enabled the Committee to retire, and at the
same time improved the hearing.
Mr. EWART would like to bear from the Mn.
Member whether they were to have the Barryian or the
Mellen system of ventilation in the House ot Commone?
Mr. GREENE replied that the ventilation of the
House of Commons and the adjoining lobbies was in-
trusted to Dr. Reid; the House of Lords and other por•
tions of the edifice were to be under the management of
Mr. Barry.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that last year he had
moved for a return as to the actual cost of these Houses.
They had now got it, from which it appeared that it was
to amount to 2,043,0001.; that was one point gained.
He now wanted to know who were the really responsible
parties for this expenditure. The Commission, of
which the Hon. Member (Mr. Greene) was a worthy
member, had apparently no power to regulate it. and it
appeared from the letter of the Treasury, expressing sur
prise at the amount of the estimate, that it was equally
powerless. He thought, however, that the Treasury
ought to have the full power of deciding upon all esti-
mates. For instance, he found 497,000/. put down for
fittings and furniture. 'What guarantee had they that
the estimate would not be exceeded? Who were the
parties by whom the estimate was prepared, and what
security did they gire for its completion at that amount?
Every one knew that a tradesman might easily make a
margin of one-third more upon an estimate. He thought
that in order to prevent waste and mismanagement there
ought to be a separate department under the Treasury,
with full powers to superintend and regulate the whole of
the matter. If some such step was not taken in time, he
feared that instead of 2,043,000/, they would find that
two millions and a half would not cover the cost. The
sum to be paid as remuneration to the architect was also
a matter for serious consideration.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed
that the business had not been conducted in a wry satis-
factory way. It would be remembered, however, that
much of what had been referred to had b:en done before
he came into office.—(Hear, hear.) At the same time
the successive Committees that had sat on the subject
had reported that all that had been done up to the time
of their appointment had been duly sanctioned. It should
also be remembered that at the early stage of the works
Committees of both Houses had been engaged in the
business, which to some extent took it out of the hands
of the Government.--(Hear, hear.) As to the original
estimate of 772,0001., it would be remembered that was
merely for the carcass as it were of the Houses. As to
the appointment of a special department to regulate the
works, he apprehended the Commission appointed by
the House in 1844 was entrusted with that duty, and so
far as he knew had faithfully and zealously discharged
it, and be had no reason to suppose that, giving the
power to any other body, would be more effective.
After a few words from Mr. SPOONER and Mr. GREENE,
Mr. HUME renewed his objections to the excessive
overcharge on the amount of the original estimate.
Above all, he protested against any more than 25,000/.
being given to the architect. Sir Robert Peel had dis-
tinctly stated to the Committee, of which he was a mem-
ber, that Mr. Barry had agreed to do the work for that
sum; and he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would not alter the arrangement in a way to give Mr
Barry an inducement to go on with a large expenditure.
Sir H. WILLOUGH BY repeated his objections to the
and the
mode in which the estimates
ewxper,endpeireopnartehde,
Victoria
et onfopwropveertigeguawraensteteos and superintendence.
Mr. MUNTZ wished to know whether the money they
Tower, or in finishing, the H. use of Commons?
Mr. GREENE replied that all possible speed would be
made in the completion of the new House.
Mr. DRUMMOND slid that, looking at the drawings
of the Housss of Parliament, it shooed them to be very
incompetent judges of such things. if they thceght the
budding cou dbe c rected err 700.0001 The pre sent was
not the first time the House_had defrauded those whom
, they had employed. They had cheated Mr, Brunel out