The Sun.
London, England, 1838-01-27 00:00:00

Sir G. GRE Y said that the term " Legislative Council"
had been inserted in the Bill to express that the functions of
the body applied to were to pass measures proposed by the
Governor-General to all intents and purposes, and by that
means to contradistinguish it from the Executive Conned—a
creature of the prerogative still in existence in Canada. If
any word less unpopular than Legislative—
A VO IC E.—Extraordinary.—( A laugh.)
Sir G. GRE Y.—lf any word less unpopular than " extra-
ordinary" were suggested he would have no objection to in-
sert it. With regard to the power conferred upon the Go-
vernor-General of initiating laws, it was not a new one, as the
Governors of New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land,
the Cape, and other colonies, had the same power. If the
word " special" Council were substituted for " Legislative
Council," he would assent to it. With respect to the pay-
ment of that body, he felt called on to state that the President
only would receive any remuneration for his services.
After a few words from Sir E. SUG DEN, the word
" special" was inserted instead of " legislative," and the clause
was agreed to.
Clause 3.

Lord STANLEY would beg to make one suggestion to
her Majesty's Government before this clause should pass. in
the last clause there was a power given to the Governor-
General to pass all ordinances and laws for the good govern-
ment of Canada ; but were there not parts of the Constitu-
tion of Canada which should not he altered? It appeared
now that the Governor had a greater power to legislate than
the ordinary Constitutional Legislature ; but it did not ap-
pear to him that the Governor should have such power. As
a general rule, it was quite true that the Canadian Assembly
could not pass any law repugnant to the wish of the British
Parliament, but there were certain provisions, most impor-
tant to local legislation, in which it was empowered to act
in opposition to the Imperial Legislature. The real principle
of the measure ought to be to give the Governor sufficient
power to prevent anarchy and confusion, and not to allow
any greater alteration to be introduced than what was really
necessary for good government. No temporary power of
legislation (the effect of which was to have a lasting opera.
tion) should be given to an individual which might involve
the destruction of such important interests. And yet it ap-
peared that arbitrary, absolute, and irresponsible power was to
be entrusted to the Governor for these and other purposes.
He was sent to legislate for three years; but the effects were
to remain in existence for ever. He really did not think it
prudent to entrust Lord Durham with such a- despotic power
of intermeddling with real property and religious establiih-
ments (although he might not intentionally misuse it), un-
checked by the Colonial Legislature, or any thing but his
own free will. He especially wished that a restriction should'
be introduced, expressly withholding the power of altering,
suspending, or repealing any Act of the British or Colonial
Parliament affecting tenures.
The SOCICITOR-G ENE RAL thought that the least
difficulty of all in the present exigency would be to trust to
the eminent individual entrusted with the arduous task of pa-
cification for the certain short period for which he was nomi-
nated, and then to revise and act with all the aids of expe-
rience—in short, to afford him all the power he might require,
with the consent of Parliament, where it may be necessary,
and without it where it could be dispensed with.
Sir W. FOLLETT referred to clause 3, and pointed out
that there was no restrictive clause attached thereto, to pre-
vent the most extensive and injurious exercise of the Gover-
nor's discretionary power. The provision was unnecessary
now, but it was very needful as the Bill was first formed, for
that draft gave Lord Durham full power to repeal, amend, or
alter the Acts of the Imperial Legislature, on any subject,
or to any extent. They might, if they pleased, have con-
fined his discretionary power to the alteration of the Colonial
Legislature, but it was going too far to permit him to annul
the Acts of the. British Parliament. The Colonial Legisla-
ture had no such power. His amendment would, therefore,
be to the effect that the Government should not have the power
to repeal, amend, or alter, any Act of the British Parliament
or Colonial Legislature subject by the Colonial Constitution
to the control of the Imperial Parliament.
• - - -

•
Mr. ELLICE said that he had heard very considerable
complaints in Lower Canada respecting the temporary and
changeable nature of the Government hitherto provided for
them. The registry of deeds in particular was only tempo-
rary; and it was much to be wished that the Governor in the
present crisis should have the power of making a law to permit
parties to register their property in the Courts. But there
were other points connected with the state of the Province that
were of the greatest importance to its welfare, and would be
very much forwarded by the, discretionary powers proposed
to be entrusted to the nevi. Governor. The state of the
roads, canals, and public communications in Lower Ca-
nada was really disgraceful. Compared with the Upper
Province and the State of New York the difference was
lamentable. He hoped that all would be settled by next
year ; but, in the meantime, why forbid Lord Durham's
making arrangements for the public accommodation, and
giving his consent to the establishment of a railroad, for in-
stance? Nothing was more wanting in connection with those
of the United States and Upper Canada, the previous admi-
rable works of which invited imitation; but, though numbers
would subscribe to a permanent undertaking, not one would
engage in a work that might only exist four years.—(Hear,
hear ) Why object to the enactment of urgent measures
which, if found inexpedient, the next Legislature may annul?
Their best policy would be to allow the Imperial Legislature
to interfere, and settle the provincial disputes about such prac-
tical matters

Sir G. GREY thought it better perhaps that Lord Durham
should not have the power to authorise the construction of
railroads or other jobs of that nature, with which the House
was so well conversant, and must know the difficulty of deal-
ing justly with.—( A laugh.) Going there unacquainted with
the country, he would, in all probability, be imposed on if he
meddled with such matters.

A MEMBER—Or any matters-4A laugh.)
Sir G. GREY—As to the matters which his Honourable
Friend opposite would except from the operation of the Bill,
if he would specify the subjects, and entrust the amendment
to his care, he would look into it carefully ; and, if he saw
no objection in the principle, he would have no hesitation to
adopt it.—( Cheers. )
Sir WILLIAM FOLLETT said it was the opinion of
every one who had read the Bill—certainly of every lawyer
who had read it—that the original Bill, as it had been circu-
lated through the country, and as probably it had been sent
out to Canada, gave the Governor in Council a po.ver of
legislating to any extent, and on any subject, and to make
any law whatever with the exception of a very slight restric-
tion. The country had a right to complain of the manner in
which the Bill had been introduced. Most substantial alte-
rations had been made in the measure which had been brought
forward in a different shape from what any person would have
expected.
Sir J. CAMPBELL said that it was rather unfair for his
Right Hon. Friend to enter upon the discussion of a matter
that had now passed by.—( Laughter and cheers.) He cer-
tainly did not think that his Right Hon Friend ought to
waste the time of the House in discussing what the effect of
the Bill would be as it originally stood. ( Renewed laughter
and cheering.) If such alterations had been made in the Bill
as anticipated the entire four of the objections intended to be
made by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, he did not
think that his Right Hon. Friend had any right to complain
on that score. Whatever might be said there was scarcely an
instance of a Bill of such importance passing through thr
House in which so few alterations had been made. He re-
peated that assertion. Since lie had had the honour of being
a Member of the House lie had seen Bills committed and re-
committed again, and those Bills had at different times been
brought in by Members of both sides of the House. He would
venture to say that no substantial alterations had been effected
in the present Bill. With respect to the amendment pro-
posed by his Right Hon. Friend, he saw no objection to em-
bodying it in the Bill.—(Cheers.)
Mr. E. E LL ICE repeated that serious disadvantages would
accrue from the suspension of legislation in the colony. Un-
less there was some legislation for local objects the large sums
of money that were ready to be applied to local improvements
of great importance would be locked up.
Mr. WARBURTON was glad to find that inconvenience
was likely to result from a dictatorship. That was the best
security for its speedy removal.
Mr. PRAED wished to ask a question of the Under Secre-
tary for the Colonies. There were some Acts which were
about to expire, under which certain taxes were collected. He
wished to know whether any provision was made with respect
to those Acts, and to the future collection of the taxes raised
under them?

Sir G. GREY said that provision would be made for that
contingency. A power would be given, not to create new
taxes, but to tenew those which were collected under the Acts
about to expire. Words would be introduced to enable the
Governor in Council to renew those Acts.
The clause was then agreed to, with the understanding that
the amendment proposed by Sir W. Follett should be brought
up to-morrow.
Clauses to clause eight inclusive were then agreed to.
On clause nine being proposed,
Sir R. PEEL said he did not think that Hon. Members
seemed to understand that this was the clause which enabled
her Majesty in Council to repeal that Act. He moved that
the clause be struck out.
The clause was accordingly struck out.
The remaining clauses were then agreed to.
Mr. BERNAL then put the question that the alterations
propsed to be made in the preamble, beginning at the 11th
line, should be agreed to, and that the objectionable parts
should be struck out.
The preamble was then amended, and the Bill as amended
was then reported to the House, amidst loud Cheers from the
Opposition.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not know whether the House
would have objection to receive the report of the Bill to-mor-
row. There was only one part of the Bill which remained to
be amended. In this respect his Hon. Friend the Under
Secretary for the Colonies would take care to have the amend-
ment of the Right Hon. Gentleman ( Sir W. Follett) pre-
pared in conformity with the views of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, so that it might be added to the rest of the Bill. He
hoped that the House would agree to receive the report to-
morrow, in order that they might be able to have the Bill read
a third time on Monday. He moved that the House should
meet at twelve o'clock to-morrow.
Mr. WAKLEY wished to know whether the Noble Lord
would have any objection to have the Bill printed ? It appeared
to have assumed quite a new form, and he thought it was quite
necessary that the Bill should be printed.
Lord J. RUSSELL had no objection to have the Bill
printed.
The House then adjourned at a Quarter past Ten o'clock to
Twelve o'clock to-morrow (thig day.)