The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-20 00:00:00

Portions into a corner, and there grapple with the
remedy, as recommended by the Boundary Commis •
sioners.—(Hear, hear.) Unless they got at these plague-
spots, ho firmly believed they would be only extending,
and daily augmenting, the evil. With respect to the
proposition made by the Right honourable Member for
Taneworth, he believed the plan would be attended
with the greatest evils, and more particularly that
Portion of it which referred to a large scheme of emi-
gration,, which would be opposed by the Catholic
clergy, who were inseparable from their people, and
would not permit them to be driven out of the country
in the manner proposed by that plan. With respect to
(migration he hoped her Majesty's Government would
le exceedingly cautious in interfering with voluntary
!Migration, and especially with one of the best feel-
ings which could possibly exist—the anxiety evinced
by the successful emigrants to assist their friends anJ
relatives to join them in America. He would now allude
to the subject of private charity to Ireland from England,
and he would observe that whatever might have been
said by angry spirits brooding over real or imaginary
wrongs, the heart of Ire'and was deeply grateful for the
unparalleled generosity exhibited towards her by the
people of.England.—(bear, hear.)
Colonel RAWDON was averse to the rate in ail, be-
cause he thought it was opposed to the Act of Union,
and to the promise given by Mc. Pitt at the time of the
union, that Ireland should be identified with England.
If the rate in aid were a general rate in aid, extending
not over only the counties of Ireland but also of Scotland
and England, the people of Ireland would willingly bear
their share of such a tax. He would also protest
against the manner In which the affliction of Providence
had been treated in that House ; and he especially
felt deeply pained at the sentence of death which
bad been pronounced by that House when the Minister
experienced so much difficulty in obtaining the paltry
grant of 50,0001. for the starving people.—(hear, hear.)
He laid the blame boldly at the door of the Imperial
house of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) He felt that he
should be wrong in throwing the whole of the blame on
the Ministers.—(Bear, hear.) He at the same time en
tirely agreed with what had been said by the Hon. Mem-
ber for Longford, relative to the private charity of Eng-
land—(llearehear)—and which he knew was appreciated
by the people of Ireland, for the feeling of gratitude was
one that beat warmly in the Irish heart. The Hon.
Member concluded by saying that Ireland was essentially
an agricultural country, and that her dependence must
be upon agricultural prosperity.
Mr. HORSMAN could not support the amendment,
because the Hon. Member seemed to consider that an
income-tax was to be a substitute for the rate in aid. He
thought the question should, on the contrary, be met by
a direct negative.—(Hear, hear.) What was the fact?
They were asked to advance a certain sum of money on
the security of the rate in aid. Now, what security was
there that the rate would be collected?—(Elear, hear.)
He held the evidence on that point in his hand, on the
evidence of officials employed by the Government itself.
As to the worthlessness of the rate and the utter hope-
lessness that a sixpence of it would ever be paid, the
evidence he had alluded to was clear and conclusive.
The policy which should be pursued was a matter of the
utmost moment in the present circumstances, and on that
Point the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tam-
Worth (Sir R. Peel) had directed public attention to a
course against which they could not shut their eyes.—
ar, hear.) The Hon. Member then referred to the
evidence given by Mr. Griffiths before the Irish Poor-
law Committee, also to that of Mr. Gulson, as to the
valuation, the collection of the poor-rate, and its practi-
cability. He also quoted the evidence of Mr. Huband as
to the repayment of the loans—his opinion being that
there would be a decided objection to pay money back
on any account.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Mr.
Senior was the nett witness, and he was of opinion with
Mr. Gulson that any attempt to levy the rate in aid
would be met by resistance, and that the new
rate would endanger the collection of the
old rate. Mr. Senior also thought that the
rate in aid proposed to be levied would be an unfair rate,
and that more than a sixpenny rate would be required
to meet the difficulty. He was next asked as to the con-
duct of the guardians, and he stated that he believed
they would prefer resigning to levying the rate. Captain
Xennedy was also examined on the same subject, and
gave similar opinions. Now, all this proved that the
Government, in bringing in such a measure in the face
of such evidence, must have altogether disregarded the
conclusions at which the witnesses bad arrived. They
bad then this prospect before them, that, with Ireland
getting worse, and her misery increasing, the money
which it would be necessary to raise would ultimately
have to be met by the taxpayers of England.—(Hear,
hear.) He therefore looked upon the proposition of a
rate in aid as a mere delusion, as it was a measure which
never could be carried out, and he doubted whether it
Ives intended to be carried Out. The time was come
when they should give up mere matters of expediency.
--(Hear.) At the eleventh hour the Right Hon. Baro-
net (Sir R. Peel), had come forward and had proposed a
Plan to which he felt disposed to give every considera-
tion. As regarded Ireland, the Right Hon. Baronet
had established the magnitude of the calamity—as
regarded England, the vastness of the opportunity ; and
as regarded Parliament, the greatness of the difficulty. If
he had done no more than this, he would have done a
great deal—but he had done more. Ile had made a
speech which showed his knowledge of tho conditioe of
Ireland. He had proved to them that the time of Par-
liament Could no longer be wasted on shifts and expedi-
ents, but that measures of large magnitude must be ap-
Plied.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure the Learned
Member for Newcastle that he discussed the question
proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet with reference to
its neeiite, and nut with reference to the individual by
whom it had been brought forward. The principal fea-
ture of that plan was, that it was necessary for the rege
aeration of Ireland that a great change should take place
in its proprietary; and undoubtedly, if they could substi-
tute a solvent and enterprising proprietary instead of an
insolvent body, they would produce an improved state of
society. He understood, however, by that term, a body
of comparatively small proprietors, because he bad no
faith in the benefits to be derived from advances to
large proprietors. The Right Hon. Gentleman had re
peatedly glanced at a small proprietary in the exposition
of his plan. That plan, as far as he understood, em-
braced three leading features. In the first place there
should be a clear and simple title against the world. Ii
the second, limited liability to poor and other rates; awl
in the third place there must be capital.—( Hear, hear.)
Now he believed that whatever the &amities might be
in the way of bringing this combination of elements
into play, there were none which might not be overcome
if the Right Hon. Baronet was properly and fairly sup-
Ported in the attempt to carry out his plan. As regarded
the principle of appointing a commission and superseding
the Court of Chancery, with respect to etc grant of
titles, he believed the proposition had secured very gene.
ral assent, and that it could be practically and beneficially
carried out. As to limited liability, that was incompa
tible with a rate in aid.—(Hear, hear.) The rate in aid
implied unlimited liability, and it was not under its
operation that the obj* ct of securing a new
and enterprising proprietary could be attained.
Ile believed that the great distress now existing in
Ireland had been brought about by the poor-law which
they had inflicted upon Ireland. Without that law
they would not have had greater distress in Ireland, nor
'55 generosity in Englan; but there would have been
this difference, that the farmers of Ireland would no!
have been ruined and driven out of the country, leaving
Whole tracts of land desolate. With respect to the pros -
_ifents of the introduCtion of capital into Ireland, he be-
eved that there was every natural inducement for it
ii
,ihe artificial obstacles were removed. There was a fer-
t_i!eand virgin soil in close proximity to the rich market
°I England. All that was required was to encourage
the creation of a race of small proprietors. Whenever
such a body was found in Europe, all experience testi-
Ited to their value. Mill, Aiken, Young, and others,
showed that their interest in the land was immediate
and direct, and their industrious habits of the most -valu-
able description. " Give them a desert, and they will
ure. it into a garden," said Arthur Young. In Switzer-
land, Norway, Belgium, and other parts of Europe, they
were highly esteemed, as the very strength and sinews
of the State. Well, now, were they to produce such a
body of industrious small proprietors by giving them
Government assistance? They had advanced money to
large proprietors, which he considered a vicious system,
for anything that enabled them to struggle with their
embarrassments, and kept the land out of cultivation,
Was vicious in its effects. Let them, therefore, stop the
advances to large proprietors, and grant them to small
ones. Such loans to be made on the security of the
land to be cultivated by them, with a proper guarantee
against sub-letting. They had experience of the effect
esof advances to this most industrious and useful class.
There had been lent to them, upon personal security
in Ireland, by loan-fund societies, no less a sum than
1.e870,000/., and the profits had been as high as
400.000/, in one year. This proved that such a mode
c, :Procedure would be equally safe and satisfactory,
9',11(1 in conjunction, with measures for the encourage-
Tent of a ajudicious system of emigration, would be
question
an ample remedy for the wants of Ireland. The
'llestion before the House was, whether they should
attablish a permanent policy in that country—whether
hey
would treat it as an Irish or au Imperial
question, The Noble Lord looked forward with
i.°130 to the restoration of the potato and the
formere condition of things, while the Hon. Baronet pro-
ced_ a thorough regeneration of the country. He be-
d that legislation was the cause of all the evils in
reiand•—(llear, hear.) It was' that which on the most
fertile of soils made a large proportion of the people
„Paupers, which, in a most healthy country, reduced the
average
n 0...
.6 duration of life to 26 years. The question was
'"" M such a position that the House could not dare to
set it rest
tent policy it was. They must work out a perma•
burden ofY by which Ireland might be relieved from the
They
ratistmeuperism, and its resources brought into play.
e to the consideration of this question in
tH
more high
done. The Itigdh generous spirit than they had hitherto
position before the c'n.
Baronet had placed it in such a
fairly dealing
with
u7aosuntry that they could not avoid
he trusted they would great and important matter, and
tinuing a policy made adopt his policy instead of con-
ahifts.—(Cheers.) uP °f meanan mac d •h. tevous make-
Major. BLACKALL said, fitleeta the moment the rate
In aid had been-proposed, he
at once stated that as
.11 Irishman he was ready to suibi tto taxation in order
I,orrelieve Irish distress from Iritilsh resources But he
did think it was most unjust that the taxation for that
property exclusively.
as
should be borne by landed
bfeen
the
the last year landed property had
ht_Tut to contribute no less than 1,700,0001. or re-
nf distress, and for local purposes and re
eau& expended 01(1)(foni.bl. payment f c works 1,300,0001. more, making
itt tote'
of
3,000,
try'
53.
y. the pound of the whole rental of th
ir in a rental of 13,000,000/,
• or
ncR t ...ae tnought, therefore., that it was but fair tehacrithe.
wh;_i_ax. should fall Upon those descriptions of property
had hitherto scaped; anti believed that, upon
- v consideration of Polk
t4jlo. Friend the Membety•fand ju4ic°'
"e
motion
of
I Auk of _ Kerry ,41
buy %miaow, preferable