The Sun.
London, England, 1836-04-22 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONIJON, FRIDAY, APRIL 22, 18:36.

; 1 .i
I'' 1i)..C.5.3 .or no country. But what gave him that power ? Prin.
fapally the intemperate conduct of his opponents.—( Hear,
heir.) There was one other point to which lie wished to
Oti:le befOre lip shouldisit oilq n-rit v9s the subject of the offer
M. ,thel Barpri,etcy.„ (It h
~peqiii. ,nifonpsl,4; ,ii4d orfilft
aiv
B,k‘Tili' q. cAiri§t hei Celliriii feel 11-IJD bi jegthA fi,. t
polti.
~,,s, ~ a , , -,, 4., to IM
„, niquiry, they didliot do ill tliey, inight-4hat ,they did not,
in short, do their duty. , But, he would ,ask the House to con-
sider for a momeßt,„apd ',tiler} ,t'f,t say wh,qher &lig ConviiiVilf;
pi,i,iiie eviCtepee rhich they welt ,aisle td elitd.)ti, dtild die
%r•?-niqnali of It. ::. It was no Parliamentary offence—nothing
was proved. At the worst it was no more than one gentleman
who was vain enough to expect a Baronetcy, and another who
was vain enough to think he could get it for him. It was a
question which, as they had no data to go on, and no distinct
charge to tr,,, the efritttittel t!ould iidt rerfere ins For
Uhise ;Caions he could not concur in the eso tifien at fil6
Hon. Member for Bradford.—[The Hon. Member concluded
by moving the previous question. We understood, however,
that he withdrew his motion ; but, from the noise and confu-
sion which Kevailed it
.the moment,, we cannot be certain.
P. ]
Lord LGV.ITON said that we garde reason which had
induced the Hon. Member on the other side to come forward,
influenced him in addressing the House. The subject of the
inquiry came before the Committee in it two-fold shapes The
first was a gfavd inquiry, afteotirig the Oliatitettir of a Member
d thitt tiotoe, its regard to pecuniary corruption. Ile came
to the inquiry with a feeling that the published documents
affected the character of the Honourable and Learned Mem-
ber far Dublin ; and he was free to admit that when he
heard the Honourable Member for Bradford acquit the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman of pecuniary corrup-
tion he felt some degree of surprise, and entertained great
doubt of the strict justice of his observations.—( Hear. ) The
spirit of the question now brought before them was,
whether any addition should be made to the report of the Com-
mittee on minor points of the case, of which addition the ob-
ject obviously was to bring Mr, O'Connell and others within
the grasp of a penal resolution of the House.—( Hear.) As
to the effect of such investigations before this House into per-
sonal character and political conduct, he ( Lord F. Egerton)
would say—not that his own hands were not as clean as others
in reference to pecuniary matters and to his Parliamentary po-
sition, and ail the preliminary proceedings connected there-
with—but he would say, that if all these were to be rendered
the subject of private delation—if evidence should be syste-
matically sought for and found on the details of every such
personal subject—he hardly knew if he might not be brought
within the grasp of that House, which, after all, was, in his
opinion, extremely ill-adapted to decide on such questions.—
(Hear.) He thought they should be left to other and very
different tribunals.—( Hear, hear.) In that House a severe
scrutiny into, and condemnation of the political conduct of the
Hon. Member for Dublin would perhaps be deemed only rigid
justice by two hundred Members on one side, while it would
be regarded as persecution by two hundred and fifty on the other.
It was on these grounds of consideration and delicacy that
he ( Lord F. Egerton) had not thought it desirable to embody
his own personal opinions in the Report of the Committee, and
perhaps it was now too late to detail them with any beneficial
effect. He must, however, be permitted to declare that he
had heard, with some surprise, accusations directed against
his side of the House, to the effect that others, who had been
more active than himself, had been guilty of very extraordinary
conduct in language that filled him with astonishment. The
circumstances were such that no imputation of the kind al-
luded to could possibly lie against them with any show of
reason, and he was perfectly astonished to hear any such
charge uttered as that of their having been engaged in a
foul conspiracy. —( Hear.) The words were used in the news-
papers—(he trusted he should be corrected if he misquoted
them)—"a foul conspiracy on the part of a dyinr, faction."
—( Cheers and counter cheers.) He should be glad to know
who were the persons who name under the denomination of
" the dying faction"—(Hear)—and how the existence of the
foul conspiracy was to be proved against the Tories, originating
as it did in the letter of Mr. Raphael to Mr. O'Connell, request-
ing to be introduced to Parliament by him. He must confess he
had no great regard for that individual, but still he did not
think him capable of entering into a foul conspiracy with the
Tories against his own party. The Hon. Member for Brad-
ford did not find that letter in the street.—( Hear.) He
did not steal it.—( Cheers.) He could not believe that the epi-
thets selected, of a" dying faction" were very appropriate after
all. He was not aware that the friends with which he was in
the habit of acting were so low in talent or principle as to
deserve to be so characterized, but whether those principles
were strongly denominated Tory, or by the milder name of
Conservative, he owned the name with pride.—(Cheers.)
And, whether their death as a political party was near or re-
mote, he hoped he should proudly continue to avow principles
similar to those which he did at present, and remain to the
last an humble but sincere member of that faction.—( Cheers. )
It was stated in a Sunday paper that took the liberty of repor-
ting a speech of his ( Lord F. Egerton's) that if he spoke of
that individual (Mr. Raphael) fairly, he should find it difficult
to express himself in proper terms. He thought it not exactly
fair that expressions uttered in an assembly, select, and at the
same time secret, should be published and misrepresented in
this way. What he had said was, that the Committee could
not pay a worse compliment to that House than to say in the
report that that Hon. Gentleman had been selected for an
Irish county. He believed him to be a person strongly influ-
enced by a passion for spurious notoriety—a troublesome spe -
cies of ambition which, in its developement, leads to much
folly ; but which, in the age we live in, passes very currently
under the name and stamp of patriotism—( Hear, hear)—a
passion that seeks its gratification by envious efforts at colli-
sion with everybody that seems to stand in its way, and whose
childish acts, divested as they are of common sense, only lead
to the proper punishment in every such foolish attempt. In
conclusion, lie must declare that he felt the motion of the
Hon. Member for Bradford to be inconsistent with all the
proceedings already entered into by the House and its Com-
mittee, and he would, therefore, give his assent to the previ-
ous question.

Lion before the House was the motion of the Mertflier for
Wells (Mr. R. Colborne), who had moved the previous ques-
tion, which was seconded by the Noble Lord, the Member for
South Lancaster (Lord F. Egerton).
, The (SPEAKER understood the Hon. Member fe
Pad 171.6fprt/ h had not been seconded.
r Wells
Mr, R. C LIJOR E gild ihdf the coyinkm expressed from
Chair wasp perteedy Cq rreei. lie had sided his objections
ic; tlie,tiei?Ntipris of the Hon: Merriber for Braciforci, and el,
jrc inteittidn' niovink the *Won's citi,estion, when,
Some mterttipthiti to en fildce; h'd tittered his in-
tention, and said that he should leave tlld litidsildri in' the hands
of the House.
Lord F. EGERTON had only expressed his intention of
supporting the motion of the previous question, but he was not
aware of his having seconded it.
Mr: LAW distinctly heard the Hon. Member for Wells
move the pfdtiokfl qiiesticni, and heard the Noble Lord second
that motion. It was ndt Competent, therefore, to the Hon.
Member for Wells to withdraw his motion without the consent
of the House.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the matter was now cleared Ve
No question had been put except that of the Hon. Member
for Bradford, and upon that question it was his (Lord J. Rus-
sell's) intention to move a series of resolutions, in conformity
with the Report of the Committee. The Hon. Member for
Bradford had said nothing in his resolutions upon the offer of
a Baronetcy to Mr. Raphael, although he had dwelt much
upon that part of the subject hi his speech.— (Cheers.) What
had the Hon. Member stated ? Why that at a time that the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had 9001. of Mr. Ra-
phael's money in his hands unaccounted for, he made Mr.
Raphael an offer of services to procure him a Baronetcy..__
(Cheers.) This was the meaning which the Hon. Member
wished to convey to the House, but his (Lord J. Russell's)
meaning of the offer was this—that the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin was anxious to make a show of some
compensation to Mr. Raphael for the expense he had been
put to at the election, and to soothe him with the offer of a
Baronetcy as a tribute to his vanity. If the Hon. Member
did not mean to convey the insinuation, he should not have
made the observations he did ; and, if he did mean it, it
was most unfair and most unjust not to have • made the
charge in an open and plain manner.—(Loud cheers.) He
(Lord John Russell) was free to admit that the offer of the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin to Mr. Raphael was
extremely improper.--(Loud cheers.) But it was the ex-
treme of extravagant construction to say that it was a crime.
No one had attempted to show that the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin had made an application to the Govern-
ment on the subject of his offer to Mr. Raphael, or that the
Government had listened to any such proposition. This must
seem rather strange to Hon. Gentlemen opposite, seeing that
it was asserted, night after night, that the Government must
do whatever the Hon. Member for Dublin wished.—( Cheers. )
That they must appoint Bishops and Professors—nay, even the
Lord Lieutenant of Ireland—at his bidding.—( Cheers.) And
yet this all-powerful, this all-influential man did not venture to
ask the Government to make a Baronet of the High Sheriff
of London.—( Cheers.) He could not refrain from designat-
ing this part of the accusation as the most trumpery and con-
temptible he had ever heard against any Member of that House
—(Cheers)—and he wondered much that the Hon. Member
for Bradford had ever thought it worth his while to introduce
it. The House was now called upon to stamp the whole trans-
action. He did not believe that the political party op-
posed to his Majesty's Government had any wish, or took any
part, to involve the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin in
a false accusation. But he believed that their minds had been
wrapped and improperly influenced by the grossest misrepre-
sentations—(Cheers)-,-got up by a set of dirty base creatures
—(lmmense cheering froth the Ministerial benches)=—who
cannot bear to witness the liberal course which the Govern-
ment is pursuing triumphant all over Europe—( Cheers)—who
see with nothing but dissatisfaction that peace and prosperity
is flourishing in every part of the United Kingdom, and that
great, that mighty, and holy cause of human liberty and im-
provement, supported now, as it has ever been in all times, by
the ablest and the best men .in every country in Europe.—
( Cheers.) The Noble Lord in conclusion proposed as an
amendment a series of resolutions which were an echo of the
report of the Committee.

Lord STANLEY said that although he was prepared to
support the motion of the Hon. Member for Wells, he was not
equally prepared to support the resolutions of the Noble Lord
opposite. Indeed, it would be irttpossible for him to concur in
those resolutions. The whole tendency Of tite argument of the
Noble Lord opposite was to support the motion of the previous
question. He stated that the case had been placed altogether
out of the hands of the House, when it was referred to the de.
cision of a Select Committee.—(Cheers.) If the House re-
collected the part which he (Lord' Stanley) took in this ques-
tion on a former occasion, they would see that he could not
well refrain from taking part in the present discussion. He
was greatly surprised to hear the Noble Lord call the charge
against the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin a trumpery
charge.—(Cheers.) Did the Noble Lord think such a charge
and such allegations made against a Member of that House, in
the face of the public, a trumpery charge ? Was this the op;}
nion of the first Minister of the Crown—the upholder of the
purity of election—( Cheers)—the uncompromising opponent
of everything that could bring the slightest taint on the consti-
tuency of the country, or on any individual Member of that
House ? He confessed he had been also astonished to hear
the Hon. Member for Dublin himself consider the charge so
trivial. He should speak as freely of that Hon. and Learned
Member, although absent, as if he were present. He must now
declare, as an honourable man, that, with respect to the charge
of personal motive, of pecuniary corruption, the evidence be-
fore the Committee acquitted the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man.—( Hear, hear.) He could not deny that the case at first
bore a very suspicious appearance, because the whole sum ap-
pearing to be in the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's hands, he
advanced it as called for in the shape of bills. These bills,
however, having been paid, on demand, without deduction of
any discount, entirely altered the nature of the pecuniary pro-
ceeding. He could not consent that the resolutions proposed
by the Noble Lord should stand alone, that the vote of the
House should be limited entirely to those resolutions.—
( Cheers.) What were the facts of the case ? It appeared
that, at a previous election which took place, there were four
candidates, the two Members now sitting for Carlow, the pre-
sent Member for Tralee, and Mr. Cahil. The Member for
Tralee (Mr. M. O'Connell) and Mr. Cahill failed, though
supported by the Carlow Liberal Club. A letter was produced
written by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member for
Dublin, promising a sum of 5001. towards defraying the ex-
penses of the contest, if the Members for Tralec should be re-
turned. A petition was presented against the return of the
other two candidates, which was supported by the Liberal
Club. The petition succeeded, and the two Members were
unseated, but the Member for Tralee and Mr. Cahil were not
seated.

Sii• R. FERGUSON said that it was not his intention to
cast any imputation on the Committee, but the fact was, the
papers laid before it were brought to light by a conspiracy—a
body of men who never left the Sheriff's house till they pos-
sessed themselves of his papers, and who had never seen him
since ; men whose names he expected would yet be got, for
the purpose of a searching investigation. He never saw a
Committee more anxious to do justice. He never heard a po-
litical sentiment expressed in that Committee. In speaking
of a conspiracy to obtain the papers he had never alluded to
the Noble Lord or his party, but to a lower class of men, who,
he believed in his soul, were guilty of it.

After a few words from Mr. BA Env,
Mr. WA RBUR.TON begged to state in what sense it was
that he gave his assent to the terms of tice report. He felt
that Mr. O'Connell had acted with a want of caution singu-
lar in a gentleman of the legal profession ; and in no other
sense did he intend to convey an imputation against him.
From the absence of all caution, and the perfect fairness which
appeared throughout on his ink, he drew the inference he had
of Mr. O'Connell's innocence. He would never have en_
tered into a written agreement if he had intended aay thing
illegal. Now when the Committee had declared that the
money was used in legal expenses it had declared sufficient to
decide the point at issue. He thought it extraordinary that
the Hon. Member for Bradford had never referred to that sec-
tion of the Act.

Mr. M. O'CONNELL—The petition did not pray for the

seats.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that they had now to decide be-
butween the accuser and the Committee, and to declare whe-
ther those resolutions of grave censure he had brought for-
ward should be adopted, or the resolution of the Committee be
confirmed. For this reason he had taken the liberty to inter-
rupt his lion. Friend when he was about to move the previous
question; for, on so grave a subject, where the character of
the Hon. Member for Dublin was at stake, and the judgment
and integrity of the Committee were liable to be viewed as mat-
ters of doubt and uncertainty, the previous question was not a
course fit for the House to adopt. He should not attempt to
enter into a review of the evidence, but would place himself on
this ground, that they had appointed a Committee, which bad
conducted its proceedings with the greatest attention and deli-
beration, and which had come to the decision (as was apparent
in their unanimous report and individual speeches) after very
grave and mature deliberation. Such being the case, unless
very strong reasons could be shown why the House should dis-
trust their integrity, it would evidently be most inconsistent and
ungracious to renew that inquiry. He would now say what he ne-
ver said before on the subject—he must confess that when he first
read the letter of Mr. O'Connell, and the accusation accompany-
. _

ing it, and compared it with the 49th Geo. 111., he thought it a
charge of a very trumpery nature, founded certainly on very
blameable expressions, and on conduct not conformable to
Parliamentary proceedings ; but followed on almost every oc-
casion cf a general election by those who were not aware that
they were thereby breaking the law. Feeling that it was im-
portant to ascertain whether anything had been done in viola-
tion of the Grenville Act, either by parties or by any indivi-
dual, he thought it his duty to acquiesce in the appointment
of a Committee, because he knew that, of whatever members
that Committee might be composed, they would decide, as a
body of English Gentlemen, with honour and integrity, with-
out regard to any consideration of party.—( Cheers.) The
event had entirely corresponded with his expectations. He
was anxious that no heated discussion should take place at the
time of the appointment of that Committee. The Committee
named was allowed on all sides to be a fair Committee, com-
posed of gentlemen to whom the House could safely confide its
Parliamentary reputation and representative responsibility.
Those Hon. Gentlemen had come to one unanimous opinion.
He had not heard it even asserted that there was any real or
substantial difference amongst them. And yet, notwithstanding
the character of the Committee, and the unanimity with which
they came to their decision, the lion. Member for Bradford
now came forward to set aside that decision. The Hon. Mem-
ber for Bradford, on the first occasion, brought forward a
charge against the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin of pe-
cuniary corruption. The Committee had directly negatived that
charge, and it remained now for the House to decide between
the Hon. Member for Bradford and the Committee.—(Minis-
terial cheers.) It appeared by the evidence that Mr. Vigors
proposed to Mr. Raphael to become a candidate for the county
of Carlow. Mr. Raphael inquired what the expense would
be, and w hated some definite sum to be specified. In conse-
quence of this wish of Mr. Raphael, if he was not mistaken,
it was that Mr. Vigors mentioned the definite sum of 2,000!.,
and left to the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin the
completion of the arrangement. In consequence of this the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin became involved in the

affair in a manner for ;11ich he richly deserved censure.—
(Cheers.) Mitigated censure.—( Immense cheers from the
Opposition.) The Committee had said in their report that
the transaction was at first liable to suspicion, and therefore he
said that the lion. and Learned Member merited some cen-
sure; but how it could be endeavoured to fix a crime noon m-

O'Connell, founded upon such a '
to comprehend

--got ue was quite at a loss
Igo was the Oat° of the ease, and he called
i upon the use, upon mature COriSidergi9ll Of it, tc agree
1 to the report qf the Committee.
C. I,y. wv-NN rose to order, and said that the ques.

Lord STANLEY—Be that as it might the petition sue-
cceded, and the other two candidates were unseated; but who
found the funds--(Cheers)—to defray the expenses of the pe-
tition? It was now admitted that the person who was said to
have contributed the money was a fictitious character. Mr.
Vigors admitted that the person named did not bear the ex-
penses. A new election took place. Who bore the expenses
of this contest? Colonel Vigors and the Carlow Club. ;The
funds of the Club were now nearly exhausted. It became ne-
cessary, therefore, to look out for a man who was rich—who
was willing—who was generous enough to pay not merely the
expenses o the contest, but to pay double the expenses; and,
after paying every one of them, to leave a large surplus.—
( Loud cheering.) One ready enough and rich enough to
be the tool of any person who might be disposed to employ
him.—( Hear.) The county of Carlow was sold for 2,0001.
( Cheers.) That is a fact.—( Cheers.) Colonel Vigors said
that the expense of one contest was only 4001., of another
including6ool., and that a third, including all expenses, not cost
more than 8001.—(Hear, hear.) What was the contract
with Mr. Raphael? Why, 1,000/. merely for being named,
and 1,000/. more on his return.—(Loud cheers.) He was
now speaking on what appeared in evidence, and not upon
the authority of the letter written by the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin.--( Hear.) It was a corrupt contract, with
a contingent purity— (Cheers)—and was the House now to
be called upon to express their opinion upon such a transac-
tion without further consideration, and without further inquiry
into all the circumstances of the case ? hi reference to the
course proposed by his Noble Friend, he should prefer affirm-
ing the resolutions of the Hon. Member for Bradford. The
first and second resolutions proposed by him were facts ; but
as to the fourth resolution, which declared the conduct of the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin to come under the 49th
of George I I 1., he doubted very much whether that statute ap-
plied to the case. There was another reason why he could
not concur in all the resolutions of the Member for Bradford,
and the reason was this, that when upon a former occasion, he
brought this subject under the consideration of the House, it
was
fully competent to him to rest his case on the 49th of
George 111., but he neglected to do so. It was even now
competent to any person to prosecute the question by infor-
mation. Referring, however, to the inquiry which took place
before a Committee, to the report of that Committee, he
must say, not from any personal feeling of favour towards the
Member for Dublin, that it would not be fair now to institute
ILsecond and a new proceeding against him.—( Hear, hear.)
When, however, he was called upon to justify the whole con-
duct of Colonel'. Vie-ors, of Mr. Cahill, of all the agents in
the transaction, and of the Carlow Liberal Clab, he must
say, nay. When required to go beyond the case of the
Hon. Member for Dublin he must have something further to
rest upon
(Cheers,) than the very concise finding of the Committee.—
He would put it to the Hon. Members opposite,
to those who were such strenuous advocates for freedom and
purity of election, what must be the effect upon the country if
it should appear that a Reformed House of Commons ac-
quiesced in the legality of such proceedings as took place at
Carlow ?_(
Cheers.) It was easy to conceive certain cases,
indeed they might occur every day, in which a person wishing
fur a seat in Parliament, but not able nor willing to incur
heavy expense, and wishing to limit it to a certain amount,
might say to one whom he supposed to have influence, I am
willing to expend two thousand pounds in the contest, but I
cannot go further. Here he saw nothing that might not occur
every day, It would not be illegal, provided the money
should be The Carlow case dif-
fered in a legal way.
from this
because in that case there was a contract to
pay a certain sum of mone down, and if any surplus remained
after deductingexpenses
the of the election, it was to go to
another purpose. Here was a case, as he before said, of cor-
rupt contract and contincrent purity.— ( Loud cheers.) A...c,nel
had once come before that House in whir o« ;«
that the act of

tillable at all to be justified 0n.1.y by some extraordinary nc-
' edgy.: dad it pleased the Noble Lord and the House to
leave the hieVeV es it a/ood id the reptift of the Committee he
should have acquielt,e'd Motion of the previoue question,
and he was still ready to cid liStit if he sbould fie, driven to
choose between the original resoltiiPni dal. the ardendment
proposed by the Noble Lord, he should pftdief stating for the
affirmation of a fact to the expression of a partial jaitiOt •
Lord J. RUSSELL said a few words in explanatiod, het
they were riot audible where we sat.
Mr. 4ergcant WILDE having been appointed by the
House nominee hi this case, hoped the House would permit
hint to say a few words. He paid great attention to the
deliatte' throughout, and particularly to the Noble Lord who
spoke last, He must say that, considering the station held by
the Noble Lord Id the House and in the country, he could
not help feeling some atteerishment at his speech, Did he
entertain the same opinion as thane expressed by the Noble
Lord, so far from being content with the previous question
he would most earnestly seek for the fullest inquiry. Govern-
ment, under the circumstances, had the right ; it was, in fact,
their imperative duty—to call for the decision of the House.
Ile never heard any reasoning less justified by the facts which
came cant upon the inquiry than that of the Noble Lord
who spoke 140. The Member for Dublin ought to rejoice
at the investigatiela which took place. He would state
shortly what his vies' of the case was, and he felt confident
that he would not be controdicted by his Hon. and Learned
Friend opposite (Sir F. Polled) who acted as nominee on
the other side. So far as a charge of corruption had re-
sulted from the evidence, or could be grounded on it, the
Noble Lord (J. Russell) was perfectly justified in calling it
a trumpery charge. Previously to the emotion of 1834 it did
not appear that there was any acquaintance or intercourse
between Mr. Raphael and Mr. O'Connell. But .Mr. Raphael
had some previous knowledge of Carlow. He had cusinmuni-
cation with a Mr. Tyrrell on the subject of the prospect There
might be of his being returned for Carlow. The whole of
the negotiation proceeed on the supposition that Mr. Raphael
was a fit and proper person to represent the county of Carlow,
and, having made this observation, he (Mr. Sergeant Wilde)
could not help noticing one fallacy which had crept into the case,
and done his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Dublin
a positive injustice. His Hon. and Learned Friend was at this
period wholly ignorant of Mr. Raphael's character, neither
had his Hon. and Learned Friend any reason to suppose that
Mr. Raphael could be guilty of such conduct as he had
afterwards manifested, and, therefore, unless he (Mr. Ser-
geant Wilde) greatly erred, his Hon. and Learned Friend
was not open to the least censure or imputation for having
recommended Mr. Raphael to the attention of the electors
of Carlow.—(Cries of " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial
side of the House, responded to by ironical cheers from
the Opposition benches.) Mr. Raphael had been repre-
sented to Mr. O'Connell as a Roman Catholic, and as a per-
son who professed ultra-Liberal opinions, who entertained a
deep sense of the injustice which it was supposed had been
done to Ireland, but although he agreed with Mr. O'Con-
nell's political sentiments generally speaking, Mr. Raphael,
when questioned upon the subject, did not hesitate to avow
that he differed from Mr. O'Connell on the subject of the
repeal of the Union. This proved that, in recommending Mr.
Raphael, Mr. O'Connell was actuated by no unworthy motive.
—( Hear, hear.) As Mr. Raphael was a Roman Catholic
he was naturally considered a fit person to represent the
county, for then his character was then untainted, and he
had not manifested the disposition which he had subsequently
evinced, with the exception that Mr. Tyrell warned Mr.
O'Connell to take care to give him no advantage in pecu-
niary matters. In the letter written by the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin to Mr. Raphael there was really nothing
which furnished the least ground for complaint. The amount
of the expense was there explicitly stated, and it did not con-
tain a syllable from whom it could be even suggested that the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman was to receiveamy benefit from
the distribution of the money.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Mr. Raphael, then, was presented to Mr. O'Connell's notice
by two parties : but before that Mr. Raphael had been prose-
cuting his negotiations with Mr. Vigors, andsit was finally de-
termined that if Mr. Raphael would undertake to expend a
sum of 2,0001. on the election, Mr. O'Connell would give him
his support. In 1835, in January, the election took place in
the county of Carlow. Mr. Raphael was ;to have gone over
there, but he did not go ; and, being unprovided with candi-
dates, the Hon. Member for Tralee and a Mr. Cahill were
put in nomination by the Liberal party. The Conservatives,
however, were successful, and as there was no expectation that
either the Hon. Member for Tralee or Mr. Cahill would stand
again, it became necessary to look out for other candidates.
All this showed that Mr. Raphael was not a stranger to the
county of Carlow; but if a case for censure were wanted
they need look no further for it than at the proceedings of the
election before the last. Such then was the position to which
they found themselves reduced, that the electors were them-
selves compelled to petition against the return of the success-
ful candidates. Their funds, however, were low—they were,
in short, poor; and at their request Mr. Vigors caused a peti-
tion on their behalf to be presented. He (Mr. Sergeant
Wilde) should now call the attention of the House to an omis-
sio in the statement of the Noble Lord, who passed over
altogen.:P
r without notice what took place after the pre-
sentation ors this petition. As soon as the petition had
been. presented ,-.hat bad been done ? Why, Mr. Raphael
had been applied to, Sand asked if he would come forward
to the aid of the petition:rst who, it was said, were sure
of success. To this application what was Mr. Raphael's
reply ? Why, that he did not ke an uncertainty ; but
objection to the ex-
pense,oturn is insured."
added, " If you succeed I shall have nt:
whatever it may be, provided my
On this understanding, then, the petition was subsequently
prosecuted, and Mr. Vigors declared that he 10111 d not
have gone on with it, if he had not been satisfied that
Mr. Raphael would defray the whole of the expenst.g
to be incurred by it. Now, was there anything either I
unjust or illegal in all this ? He asserted that there was not.—
( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches, and ironical cheers
from the Opposition benches.) The great peculiarity in the
present case was, that every step which had been taken was in
writing, and that being so he (Sergeant Wilde) begged to ask
the House whether the country would look with alarm or think
the freedom of election had been violated merely because the
surplus of the money stipulated to be paid by Mr. Raphael, if
any surplus should remain, was to be applied in reimbursing an
individual for the money which he had expended in successfully
prosecuting the petition, and thereby vindicating the rights of
the electors ? Every one knew that Mr. O'Connell possessed
great influence over the elections in Ireland, and it was
not, therefore, a matter of surprise that he should be found
aiding persons who concurred with him in political opi-
nions, without the imputation of being actuated by sordid
motives. His Hon. and Learned Friend was influenced by
much higher considerations than pecuniary advantages, be-
cause his object was to extend and strengthen the influ-
ence over his countrymen which he now possessed. But
it had been suggested that Mr. O'Connell had not re-
garded principle in his conduct in this affair. The Noble
Lord, however, admitted that this supposition was unfounded,
because it was plain from the letters themselves, that whatever
he heard from the one party lie communicated to the other
without reserve, and as soon as it occurred. Now if the No-
ble Lord bad any taste for prosecutions it was open to him to
institute proceedings in the present case if lie thought pro-
per, but even if he should, did he think it was likely that such
a case would stand for a single moment in a Court of Jus-
tice ? The whole amount of the charge was, that if any !an-
noy should be left out of the 2,0001., after defraying the ex-
penses of the election, that money should be paid in discharge
of the expences incurred in the prosecution of the petition.
But what colour did that give for calling this a guilty transac-
tion? Members on each side of the House had marshalled
themselves at each side as if this were an occasion of great mo-
ment to the country ; but if they were to take away the moral
corruption from the charge, what, he asked, would become
of the accusation against the Hon. Member for Dublin ?
Why, it would become a mere technical charge, without the
least imputation approaching to turpitude. He had al ays
felt embarrassed when the subject of the ballot came under
consideration ; but all h e could say was, that if poor electors
were not to be protected, the sooner they had the ballot the
better. Was purity and freedom of election, he would ask. to
be obtained only by punishment of those who protected the
voter in the independent exercise of his franchise ? He
thought that the electors ought to be protected, and that there
could be nothing illegal in adopting measures by which they
would be preserved from ruin for following the dictates of
their conscience. Throughout the whole transaction there
was not the slightest ground for the pretence that any indivi-
dual had received money for any corrupt motive, or that any
such objects were intended to be effected as were alleged on
the other side. The utmost that these facts proved was, that
the tenant was allowed to know that if he was distrained on in
consequence of having given his vote against his landlord, and
according to his conscience, he would not be left to be over-
whelmed by ruin, but would receive some relief.—( Hear. )
But then it was said that they had not gone far enough into
the inquiry, for that Mr. O'Connell had offered Mr. Raphael
a Baronetcy when he found that he was likely to lose his seat.
This was a totally separate and distinct charge from the other,
and he ( Mr. Sergeant Wilde) had accordingly felt consider-
able delicacy in treating it when before the Committee. It did
appear to him that the question of the offer of the Baronetcy did
not properly belong to the inquiry ; but he put Mr. O'Con-
nell into the witness-box, in the hope that somebody else would
fall into the trap, and ask him the necessary questions on the
subject.—(A laugh.) No one, however, did so. His Learned
Friend probably thought, as he himself did, that the question
of the Baronetcy formed properly no part of the inquiry.
Again : Mr. O'Connell being himself a professional man—and
professional men generally made the worst clients, because they
always wished to manage their own ease—desired to comply
with the request of my Learned Friend, when he thought pro-
per
Siro ask
F. pfoo r
LALro.
cO 'Kt nin
askedell' s bankingttla t
wbasootkhe state oP the ac-
count at the particular moment not for the banking book.
Mr. Sergeant WILDE acquiesced in the correction of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman. What course did he (Mr.
Sergeant Wilde) adopt when this request was made? Why,
he submitted to the Committee that, in the then state of Plc
inquiry, the production of the account was not necessary, the
i ge
said,beenthatif,in pai d through another party ; but at the
samem one y hat
time
Committee should think the
the subsequent course of the
production of it
proceedings, any member
of the
Mr. O'Connell, r,ie would withdraw his objection.
however, ov
Wilde s) mode of proceeding, acrird.
y
necessa
hi
to be handed over •ruwilesdh edh st
h e( Ablar'n k iSngergheoaonkt
immediately to the Learned Counsel on
the other side, and it was accordingly delivered up, sealed;
k". thn lion. and Learned Gentleman did not subsequently

to
not air
thisect the -;;iliTal not having
the indivi4
been.;oll;;;reaieTeould d Sri WIXOM
Car, the et yet
ex
oft..lh, for
vvnant of. t 4 lurpius fag unseated there bolo; ?I
er: Was
nnclled
t
tienrieitth-neene,esss:riLtorronmall. for its being pr0ue%.,,,0c0 to
Pressed i94ktieZ obijiWe4 to 'hi, g 9 to the ford ;very fa,ciiity
itt f tbe for aNciay vv oat, after a..,
ibe
fliOuhiv.l.ilinari 'on }lion.
;;P:13,441, ex..! subinit all to w.c.aro!rt • • ation —( Hear.) ° Bradford ?
He
, sod, ifttit
e. alue andleenllo t sion clubs.} was' realfy the Tozlon of the ,
n gerober or
431);r073:1Y1r6.Y vd a, readintss
the
11t"4"'6 hdr 4c.ther:i •„ why, lie called on the tionse to v. 0.0 the conduct of thenp

^,:.~
_.

parties, on the occasion referred to, a breach of
and
deserving_ of that punishment which, by an express Yes ilutioitk.
of that House, is awarded r f b ribecy
to persons .ohn. guilty o
and corrupt trafficking in the representatiogl Pt9A3)3,hs
go,
said tha electors wished to sell their borough. ZOVI To
whom? They had requested the individual in question, Months
and months before, to become their representative, and the
proposition made was, that the surplus money, over and ahem°
the actual expense of the election, should be applied for the
Air purposes of that election. Here, then, were no such prac-
tices as those denounced by the resolution of the House against
bribery. The report of the Committee totally acquitted Mr.
O'Connell from the charge of personally corrupt motives,
and stated the belief of the Committee, that the whole of
the expenses had been legal; yet the House was now called
upon to come to a resolution, the effect of which would
be, if followed up, to send parties to Newgate who had
been guilty of no corrupt practices. If Ilonourable Mem..
bers opposite expected the House to send Messrs. O'Con-
nell and Vigors to Newgate, he (Mr. Sergeant Wilde)
would be glad to know which of the virtues of Mr. Raphael it
was that was to save him from the same fate ?—( Hear, hear.)
Me. Raphael and his attorney were parties to the contract,
and, under the terms of the Act of Parliament, not the least
guilty parties; yet they were, it seemed, to be exempted from
those consequences which it was sought to attach to the other
parties to the transaction.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and
Learned Member concluded amid much cheering by apolo-
gising for having so long trespassed on the attention of the
House.
The cries of "Adjourn"
(it was nearly half-past one) now
lemma loud and general, and
Colonel CO NO LL Y moved the adjournment of the debate
until to-morrow (this day.)
The debate was adjourned accordingly.
The other Widen of the Day were then disposed of, mild
House adjourned at half-past one.