The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-08 00:00:00

here is the proposition made to Lord Londonderry, but there
is no answer, and, therefore, of course, Lord Londonderry
• has assented and agreed to all the propositions which Colonel
Fairman set forth." By good fortune, therefore, not by the
base and atrocious conduct of some one or other, this letter of
his had come up. He would now put his case to the Noble
Viscount (Melbourne), who, though not Granl Master of an
Orange lodge, was Grand Master of the British Government,
with a deputy °rand master, under whose dominion he feared
he was too much placed. As Grand Master of the Goverernent
the Noble Viscount of course would have a secretary. Now
that secretary might be a very clever fellow, but he might also be
a very deep one—he might be an admirable writer—he might
write in the Noble Viscount's name—he might receive answers to
letters so written, and keep them in his own possession—he
might write Philippics in the newspepers against the Neble
Visctpunt's political adversaries—all these -things he might do;
but in the cud it might turn out that the secretary had de-
ceived the Noble Viscount very much, and on any slight dif-
ference between them he might desert the Noble Viscount,
and, having certain letters in his possession, might, four
years afterwards, place those letters in the hands of one of
the Noble Viscount's political opponents, to be used in de-
bate against him. Supposing, for instance, that he (the Mar-
quis of Londonderry), one of the Noble Viscount's political
opponents, bad got hold of a number of his private letters sur-
reptitiously, by purchase or otlievwise, what would their Lord-
ships think of him if he came into that House and read those
private letters, without giving the Noble Viscount any notice
that he was going to do so—without giving him the means, in
any shape, of showing how he lied been deceived—and upon
the strength of particular passages contained in those letters,
draw insinuations or founded charges against the Noble Vis-
count ? What svoulitheir Lordships think of him, if he were
to take such a coursT? Why, they would treat him with all the
contempt and ignominy which such a proceeding would deserve.
How, then, was such conduct to be defended in others? Would
the Noble Viscount get up in that House to vindicate the con-
duct of his partisans—those to whom he owed his political
existence? It was to. be observed that this was not .a solitary
instance of groundless accusations being brought against
Conservative Peers. A similar licence had been permitted
to another individual. He understood that in his own parti-
cular instance a sort of joint-stock affair was made of it be-
tween the Hon. Member for Middlesex and the Learned
Member for Dublin. These were the acknowledged friends
of the Government. He said, therefore, that the Noble Vis-
count at the head of the Government was bound to tell the
House whether he approved of this mode of attack upon indi-
vidual character—whether he thought it honourable—whe-
ther he thought it did his Government credit.—( Hear, hear.)
If he (the Marquis of Londonderry) were to look at the ani-
mus of the attack, lie should think that it was a good deal
connected with an arrow which some time since was shot from
the same quiver, when the attention of the other House was
called to the part which lie (the Marquis of Londonderry)
had taken at the great loyal and Protestant assembly which
took place in the North of Ireland in 1834. He gloried
in the part he took on that occasion ; but what was the con-
sequence? From that time forth he was a marked man, and
the object of the grossest and most malignant attacks, ever and
again repeated, in the other House of Parliament. Coupling
the attacks made by the Learned Member for Dublin on that
branch of the Legislature, with what' was brought forward by
the Member fur Middlesex the other night, he begged to ask
distinctly whether the Noble Viscount did not feel that this
combination between these two individuals was intended to go
a little further than the mere Orange question ? He could
not sit down without saying a few words upon the subject of
the suppression of Orange Societies in Ireland. His Majesty
having been pleased to take the advice of his Ministers and of
the Commons upon that subject, God forbid that he should
say any thing calculated to breed dissatisfaction or dis-
content. But let the Noble Lords opposite and let the
Government seriously reflect how much the success of their
new policy must depend upon the exertions of his Noble
Friend the Noble Earl ( Roden) near him. He begged
those Noble Lords and the Government to remember what
the Protestants of Ulster did in the year 1834. He
trusted in God that the measure might be successful, and
that it might lead to the establishment of that sort of union in
Ireland, without which lie believed in his conscience Ireland
would not long remain attached to the British Crown. But
as the Noble Viscount had been so strenuous and so prompt in'
putting down one party, let him ask whether he would use the
exertions, whether he would employ the same power to put
down Ralicalism ?—( Hear, and a langle ) Dared the Noble
Viscount to take such a course ? Dared he to shake off the
incubus which weighed upon him now, depressing his energies
and warping his power? When his Majesty's present Minis-
ters came into power, lie (the Marquis of Londonderry) had
declared that he entertained much inure apprehension of dan-
ger to the Protestant interest in Ireland from the use which
would be made of the Royal prerogative in that country, than
from any positive legislative measure. His view had been
borne out by the result. At that very moment a severe penal
code was enforced in Ireland against the Protestants ; and
those alone were appointed to fill offices of dignity who were
political Papists, and religiously tolerant. He had always
maintained that Catholics ought not to be excluded from office
any more than Protestants.

Viscount ME L BOURNE said, with respect to most of the
statements comprehended in the Noble Marquis's speech, he
must say that nothing could be mare disorderly. The Noble
Lord not only alluded to speeches made in the other House of
Parliament, but commented in detail on particular passages of
those speeches. Such a practice, if it were permitted to pre-
vail, would be not only inconvenient, but would lead to end-
less discussion. He ( Lord Melbourne) had, however, made
no objection to the course thus taken by the Noble Marquis,
because, as the No!sle Marquis stated that he was on his de.
fence, he was unwilling to interrupt him. At the same time
he must distinctly protest against the debate of that night being
brought into a precedent on the subject on any future occasion,
because, as he had already remarked, it must always be at-
tended with great inconvenience, and, might lead to endless
discussion. He (Lord Melbourne) had said on a former oc-
casion, that the Noble Marquis stood completely exculpated,
and that there was nothing against which he had to defend him-
self. But although he was of that opinion when the Noble
Marquis intimated his intention of making the speech which
he had just made, he could not say that he was pre-
cisely of that opinion, now that lie had heard the Noble
Marquis's defence.—( Hear, hear.) In his ( Lord Mel-
bourne's) opinion, the Noble Marquis had made out a
stronger case against himself than had existed before. He
was exceedingly unwilling to enter into any discussion ; for
it was his most anxious wish, that all which had passed might be
forgotten ; that it might all be buried and lost. That happy
consummation appeared to be obtained by one of the letters
which the Noble Marquis had read, although there were parts
of that letter of which he could not approve. He (Lord Mel-
bourne) was always prepared to make the fullest allowance
for the acts of human beings under excitement such as that to
which the Noble Marquis had referred as existing in the year
1832. It was not surprising that the Noble Marquis should
be anxious to bring together in Ireland at that period as many
persons as he could collect who concurred with him in the
principles which he supported. But, as to Colonel Fairman's
letter to the Noble Marquis, although he willingly admitted,
that unless that letter contained something which it would be
criminal to conceal, it could not possibly inculpate the Noble
Marquis, who was merely the receiver of it.—He ( Lord Mel-
bourne) should be very sorry to be made responsible for all the
absurd and extravagant letters which were sent to him.—
(Loud laughter.) But he begged to say, that the letters
of Colonel Fairman contained some very strong pas-.
sages. . They pointed-distinctly to resistance to his .Majesty's
Government.—( Hear, hear.) These passages appeared more
strong, when it was recollected that they were written by a
soldier, and to a Noble Lord who bad himself been a soldier ;
and yet, in reply, the Noble Marquis said nothing about those
passages. The Noble Marquis had extensively censured the
course which had been pursued with reference to Orange
societies. There was only Bone part of that course for which
his Majesty's Government was responsible; namely, the Al-
dross to his Majesty from the House of Commons, or rather
the King's answer to that Address. He ( Lord Melbourne)
repeated, however, that he was most anxious to dismiss the
whole subject. He was averse to all societies 'of a secret cha-
racter. Whether they were corresponding societies or political
unions ; whether they were preSided over by Princes of the
I Blood or only by operative mechanics, he had always con-
sidered—although he was aware that they might comprehend
' many men of the. highest honour and sincerity—that they
were dangerous. The members of such societies did not
know what they had done, what they were doing, or what
they might do. And when the whole conduct of the society
was presented to their view, they were surprised at the pro-
ceedings of which they, without being aware of it, had been
partakers. Honourable men, in such societies, unavoidably
got into the hands of men, of agents, who were seldom per-
sons of the greatest discretion, of the purest motives, or of
the best conduct.—( Hear, hear.) But, although lie had
always disapproved of such Associations, he had always felt
the great difficulty of putting them down. He trusted, how-
ever, that on the present occasion, the feeling which had
been manifested on all sides, and the course which had been
pursued by the leaders of the society in question, would
produce results much more sure and satisfactory than could
have been obtained by any positive law. Being accomplished
in that manner, it would be much more advantageous to the
country, and would effect more certain and permanent good.
The Noble Marquis complained of the exclusive 'system
which at present prevailed in Ireland. He (Lord Melbourne)
did not believe in the existence of such a system. He was
always desirous that patronage should be exercised with as
little party influence as possible. He had always lamented
the necessity that a popular Government should be conducted
by a party ; and that the Sovereign and the country
should thereby be deprived of the assistance of so many
men. r.lio.were qualified to render the State essential services.
But it was evident that every Government must confide in
those who entertained political opinions similar to their own.
As far, therefore, as the patronage of the Government in Ire-
land might have been so exercised (that it was so exercised to
an unjustifiable extent lie utterly denied), that was not their
fault or crime ' • it was attributable to those individuals who
either had separated themselves from the Government to
which they were formerly attached, or who had set themselves
to oppose that Government in a manner which the rules of
the House would not allow him to call factious, but which
was certainly injurious to the country. The Noble Marquis
asked if individuals who had belonged to Orange lodges were
henceforward to be excluded, on principle, from any official
situation ? His ( Lord Melbourne's)
answer was, undoubtedly
not ; unquestionably not. If such a course were pursued, it
wouldintroduce a system of exclusion and disabilities which
he would be the last man in the world to sup port.—(
hear, hear.) The ss •
Lord Lieutenant might not think it his
duty to employ men who conceived themselves so bound by
their former character as 0,-agemen, that they must act in com-
plete conformity to that character ; but he (Lord Melbourne)
was quite convinced that nothing further than., that was in-
tended ; for to exclude individuals from office simply because

they had oaee belonged to Ofange societies would be great
injustice. lie must again declare the gratificiltion which he
felt at the sentiments which had been expressed, and the dis-
position which had been manifested, to contmrin the intimation
contained is the Address of the House of Commons, and in
his Majesty's answer.; and he hoped that they should now for
ever get rid of this painful and distressing subjoct.—( Hear. )
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY begg:d to read the
passage ia reference to what hcl fallen from the Noble
Vis;•ount, as to the disciplining of the Orange force. The let-
ter ran thus : By a rapid augnielltation of our phy4:al
force we might be able to assume a boldness of attitude"—
now lot the Noble Lord mark what followed " which should
command the respect of our Jacobinical rulers."—(Laughter.)%
He begged the Noble Lord's pardon, but as the Noble
Lord had alluded to the organization of the physical force of
the Orange Society, he thought it right to point out the
object.

The Duke of CUMBERLAND rose, and said—My
Lords, I an naturally anxious to offer a few observations to
your Lordships upon the present occasion, for you would de-
se.vedly think me an unworthy Member of this House were
I not boldly, manfully, end distinctly to state my feelings
upon the subject now under discussion, and especially as you
have so often heard my name mentioned in reference to it.
Net, My Lards, that I shrink from one single act or word
which I have either done or said; for I have neither done or
said that which I am not prepared to defend. It would be
'idle to tell your Lordships that for the last six mouths I have
been abused, accueed, and treated in the most cruel me:,_
tier in which ever human being was treated—nee, e
it that
were true which has been stated of me, instead of standing
here in my place to address your Lordships 3.4 ti Member of
this House, I ought to be at that bar as a. testltor (so we un-
derstood his Royal Highness.) Bet I never could be be-
lieved here, surrounded by such men as 1 aim now surrounded
by, to be such a madman as to render it necessary that I should
answer that charge—l, who have during the whole course of
my life been the most decided supporter of all legitimacy.
God forbid that that moment should ever come; but if any
madmen should ever be found ready to propose such a design
es thee with which I and other Noble Lords have been charged,
sh mid not we, I say, be amongst the first to saceiiiee every
drop of blood—(Hear)—in our veins in defence of That inno-
cent person whose debts would be assailed ?—( Cheers.) Wu
ere not the persons to whom such a charge should be imputed,
but those rather should be selected who, not merely satisfied
with change, arc eve seeking to overturn.—(l-fear.) I say,
my Lords, that I am not a party man ; I look not to men but
to measures ; and if those with whom I act were to deviate in
the least from the principles which I entertain, I should be the
very first to oppose -them. My Lords, I do not deny myself;
to be the Grand Master of the Orange Institution. I did not
seek the office, nor did I wish for it; it was proposed to me;
and then, I beg leave to assure your Lordships, I did not ac-
cept it until I had received the full concurrence of his late
Majesty George the Fourth, who said ,that it was in good
hands. Now, I appeal to the House, if I have not been a firm
and true Orangeman ? What are the principles of Orange-
lam ? Fear God, honour the King. And is it riot a proof
that I have been true to those principles, when I declare that
even prior to receiving any information respecting the resolu-
tion of the House of Commons I had, in common with other
Noble Lords, come to a determination to write that address
with which your Lordships are already well acquainted. Be
it remembered, my Lords, that the circumstances of the period
when I first became Grand Master of the Orange Society and
those of the present time are widely different ; a vast change
has been produced by everything that has taken place between
the year 1827, when I first took upon myself the office of
Grand Master, and the present year. Never was there, I may
safely say, a firmer, stronger, or more zealous supporter of the
Protestant interest than the individual who is now addressing
you ; and that was the object—a desire solely to support the
Protestant cause in Ireland—that induced me to join the
Orange institution. That cause, my Lords, I do look upon to
be now in a dangerous state. I feel it—l know it ; and in
proportion .to that is the necessity that the connection should
be closer between the Protestants of England and of Irelene.
That Was my object in joining the Society ; and from the mo-
ment-.I heard that Isis Majesty discountenanced it, it became
my duty, in accordance with the principles upon which I act,
to recommend its dissolution. But never shall I be induced
to change my principles : and I declare to your Lordships that
I do look upon the Protestant cause in Ireland as in the greatest
danger at this moment; and I am bound also to say that I feel
equally afraid of the Protestant cause in this country. I beg.
to assure Noble Lords that I mean nothing personally offen-
sive to them in any observations which I may make, but after
the things which have occurred within the last three weeks
there cannot be a Protestant living who does not feel alarmed
and shocked.---( Hear, hear.) Nothing shall ever deter me
from doing that which I conceive to be my duty, and from my
principles in support of the Protestant interest I shall never
shrink.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord WYNFORD (who was throughout but very imper-
fectly heard in the gallery) said, after • a few preliminary re-
marks which we did not catch, that his connexion with the
Orange Institution was very short, as he had been initiated
only about-two years ago, upon an application from one with
whom he was intimately connected, and for whom he enter.-
tainel the greatest respect ; and he was then told that its ob-
ject was to inculcate true loyal principles, and to support Pro-
testantism. Having been informed, in answer to a question
from himself whether there were any secret oaths, that there
were not, he had consented to become a member. He attended
the meetings only three times, but he was ready to declare up-
on his honour, or, if it should be required, upon his oath, that
upon no one occasion when he was present did he hear a single
principle agitated which was in the least at variance with the
principles upon which the Orange Institution was founded—
the principles of loyalty to the Throne, and of affording unre-
mittit'e support to the Protestant interest. He, however, with
other Noble Lords, had been wickedly and infamously, aed
without foundation, charged with an attempt to change the suc-
cession. Such a charge Noble Lords would eaturally suppose
to have been made upon some kind of evidence ; but upon
looking at the Report of the Committee, it would be found
that there was no such letter as that which had been attributed' _
to him (Lord Wynford). He should like to know how the
Honourable Gentleman who had brought forward the charge
could excuse himself for having done so without one
scrap of evidence. How did the Hon. Gentleman procure
that letter ? He ( Mr. Hume) dared not avow how he got it.
He ( Lord Wynford) would now beg to call the attention of
the Hoase to some of the terms employed in that letter. After
his late illness he could not see to read the extract, but he
would state to their Lordships the substance. In that letter
he told Colonel Fairman to take care in what company he
(Colonel Fairman) made such appeals as he (Lord Wynford)
had seen reported. Now, what was it that led to that remark?
Why, it w merely this :—Colonel Fairman had spoken of the
success with which the health of the illustrious Duke (Cum-
berland) had been proposed at several meetings, and because
he knew—he hoped the Noble Duke would not be (Acceded
with what he was about to say—that in consequence of his
straightforward and manly conduct, it was not improbable that
in any mixe.l company his Royal Highness should have some
enemies ; therefore it was that he had advised caution as to
the .compaey hi which such appeals should be made. Deeply
as he was indebted to the Royal Family, his (Lord Wynford's)
feelings would have been most seriously hurt if the indiscre-
tion of any individual had brought any Member of that Family
into the situation which he apprehended from such incautious
appeals. Thus, then, that letter applied only to proposing the
health of the Illustrious Duke, as would have been evident
from another letter, which was, however, destroyed; indeed he
never had any idea of preserving that correspondence ; most
of the letters, he believed, were consigned by him to the nearest
fire. Yet upon that evidence was such a charge founded.
" Whatever may be the angry feelings," said the Noble
Lord, " of the individual who has brought this charge (and I
know he does entertain angry feelings), yet I can tell him
that he is mistaken, and that he ought not to entertain them ;
for I a.n not the person who put him in that position in which
he was once placed." He hoped that all the letters might
be published—he had never written a letter upon which such a
construction could be put as had been put on the one produced,
by any one that was not worked upon by some sense of
supposed injury. Something had been said about Orange
lodges in the army, and he had been charged with thankiog-
Puccila. for proposing their establishment. Now, he denied
the fact; Pucella never had been thanked for anything of the
kind ; but only for the establishment of a lodge at Rome. He
supposed they wished to make the Pope an Orangeman.—
( A laugh.) The fact was, that the Illustrious Duke had pro-
posed their aholition, and ho (Lord Wynford) was the first to
propose a vote of thanks to his Royal Highness upon that ac-
' count, and a resolution—
The Duke of CUMBERLAND never consented to their
establishment at all. When they were proposed, he had said
that his principles would not permit him to sanction them either
in the army or nTliv,
Lord WYNFORD had no doubt the Noble Duke was
right. The vote of thanks, then, was for opposing their adop-
tion, and the resolution to establish the same principle. With
respect to the decision of the other House, he knew nothing of
it till it was all over, but he hastened there to express his opi-
nions upon the subject, and for the indulgence which the
House had extended to him lie begged, in conclusion, to return
his sincere thanks.
The Earl of RODEN said that the House must be aware
how anxious be was to address it on the present occasion ;
he felt fully the responsibility of his position, and the duty
which he owed to those whose cause he was bound to advo-
cate. He could not but express his thanks to the Noble Mar-
quis for having !postponed his motion from a former day, in
order to give him an opportunity of addressing their Lord-
sl4s. Connected as he had been for somo years with the
Orange Institution of Ireland, well acquainted as lie must be
with the principles upon which it proceeded, and sincerely
attached as lie ever should be to the sacred cause for the sup-
port of which it was founded, it must be a matter of regret to
him for any person to enter upon the discussion of its interests,
or to have the opportunity of misrepresentiirg its objects, and
he not be present to refute such misrepresentation. But no
such observations, no such insinuations, had been made upon
the present occasion; there had not been, nor could there be,
any insinuations against the loyalty of the Orangemen of
Ireland. There might be, and he knew that there was, amongst
men of the most upright principles and soundest judgment
great difference of opinion as to the expediency of such insti-
tutions existing at all. While, however, in that House no
charges had been made, charges had been made in another
place, which, he would venture to sal, were as strongly
marked by vulgar abuse as by malignity a:.d unmanly
malice.—( Cheers.) Such a statement bad gone forth through
the.publie Press as he might confidently say was never sur-
passed in falsehood. He'felt that it would be taking up more
of the time of the House than he ought by going into those
charges verbatim et seriatim but there was one which had
been already alluded to by the Noble Marquis and Illustrious
Duke who had preceded him, and to which he also, as a if:en:-
ber of the log al Orange Institution of Ireland, felt bona do
call the attention of the House. It had been stated—and

state: with such effrontery as to create belief in-the minds of
• some ignorant persons—that it was the intention, not only of
several N..ble Lords, and amone•st them the Illustrious Duke
(Cumberland), but also of the wale Orange Society, to change
the succession
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House, and claimed from their Lordships a Committee to have
examined witnesses on oath, and to have compelled the
nat..,
ties to prove their infamous calumny.—(Hhaa, hear.)
was not for him, as the case stood, to make any such claim in
order to establish, or insult, the hyalty of the Oranges-, en o f
Ireland. He would be satisfied to derive their claim Irons. the
acknowledgment of their attachment, fidelity, and loyalty to
the Throne from the time of Queen Elizabeth to the present
day. To establish that it was only necessary to refer to she
page of history, and there would be found the record of their
achievements. Nor was it necessary for him to detain ,al„,,
House by any statement as to the line of conduct purs•sed by
the Orangemen of Ireland; he did not stand the to assert
their loyalty. But they would always he whenever
the question had reference to Protestantisan in Ireland, or the
Legislative Union, whenever the
one was assailed or ;heother attempted to be fit atr,-;,,d,
they would ever be found
supporting both the one and the other.
'
to every danger: 7
,vhether in the year 1793, in 1831, in 1832,
or in 18a" —( Hear, hear, hear.)
_ Lucy were ever ready to throw theinselvesinto the
briach, and sacrifice everything in defence of the Throne and
the heirs of the House of Hanover. But he would beg to ask
who were the accusers of the Orangemen ?—( Cheers. ) Why,
those very persons who, having sworn to support the Protes-
tant Church in Ireland, were doing all in, their power to un-
dermine and overthrow it. Who were their assailants? \Vhy,
the very demagogues who were some time since fawning upon
and flattering the Orangemen, when the object was to induce
them to join in the cry for a repeal of the Legislative Union.
—( Loud cheers.) Bet the Orangemen were too loyal to
listen to such a proposal, because they knew that it meant the
dismemberment of the British Empire.—( Hear.) Who were
their slanderers? Why, the enemies of the Protestant reli-
gion, who knew very well the power which the Protestant
cause r:ceivad from the brotherhood of the Orange Society—.
.([lsar, hear)—that brotherhood which has ever formed the
insu mountable barrier to their revolutionary projects. tic
remembered having once read of one Of the servants of
Rome who, when falsely accused, in reply to the charge
against him pointed to the Capitol, and the remembrance
of the deeds which he had performed in defence of his coun-
try were considered a sufficient answer. The Protestants of
Ireland could do no more—they could truly say that they had
saved their country, and might point to the province of Ulster,
and the peace, tranquillity, and good will which there prevailed,
• as an undying and imperishable monument to their honr'ur.
He spoke warmly on this subject, because he felt wasrmly.
He admitted that in a wholesome state of society, and when
the law was properly and impartially vindicated, that it would
be inexpedient to allow tile establishment of 'such Societies.
But was the law vindicated in Ireland ? Was not the law n.
dead letter on the statute-book ?—( Hear, hear, from the Op-
position.) Were the property and lives of his Majesty's loyal
subjects safe, and were they watched over and rseserved by
the Government of the country ?—( Renewed cries of " Hear,
hear," from the same quarter.) He would nefer to the murders
daily recorded in the public [whits, he state of the Irish
clergy, for an answer to the question. - The Noble Viscount
had alluded to the course pursued by his Majesty's Govern-
ment with respect tt Orahige lodges. That course was, in
his opinion, a calarhitous one. The Noble Viscount little
knew what were, :hie feelings and impressions of the humbler
classes wino Belonged to that society on hearing the decision
of bisaself and his colleagues. The Noble Viscount -was not
perhaps aware that the Orange Society took its origin from
amongst. the humbler classes of Protestants, in order to
eounseract the effects of other Societies which had been
established in Ireland, by which the greatest persecution
and depredation were practised on the Protestants. That
Society had grown with the growth, and increased its
the affection of these people. There was another
ground, however, on which he dissented from the course pur-
sued by Ministers, and that was that a precedent had been
thereby established which might, before long, be brought to
.bear against their Lordships' own House, and which might
tend to the destruction of the Constitution itself._( Hear,
hear, from the Duke of Cumberland and other Opposition
Lords.) He did not know whether their Lordships were
aware that this Society was so constituted, that it could not be
dissolved by any individual, Id that none could dissolve it but
the Grand Orange Lodge, properly and duly convened. He
found that a summons had been issued for convening that lodge
on the 14th of next month, for the purpose of taking into con-
sideration the best course to pursue under the exigency in which
the Society was at present placed. He conceived that the best
way in which he could show his loyalty to his Sovereign, his
attachment to his brethren, and his duty to his country, was to
attend that meeting in person, and there express his .pinion,
whatever it might be, on the subject. None of their Lord-
ships could enter into his feelings as connected with the
Orange Society of Ireland—none of their Lordships could
duly sympathise with the noble and honourable men who be-
longed to that body, some of whom had taken the course
which he had done, and by which they had been cut to the
heart's core in the sacrifice which they made, and readily
made, in compliance with what they conceived to be their
duty to their country. lie repeated, it was impossible for
their Lordships adequately to appreciate their feelings, for
none of them could understand what the strength of the
bond of union was which bound together in 'affection, regard,
and brotherhood, the Orange Society of Ireland.—( Loud
cries of " Hear," from the Opposition.) That brotherhood
might cease—that brotherhood probably would cease ; but
cease ; but the first principle on which it was founded never
could be extinguished.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition.)
He trusted his Protestant brethren would bear the trials
with which they. were threatened.
Lord PLUNK ET began by observing that it was a great
mistake to suppose that any person interested in the welfare
of Ireland, or the welfare of the empire, could feel disposed
-to act so mean a part as either to entertain or express any
Sentiment of triumph at thehlissoluticu of the Society. It
was no less mistake to imagine that the dissolution was the
result of a trial of strength between Protestants and Res, a
Catholics. —( Loud cries of " Hear, hear, hear.") He con-
sidered the dissolution of Orange Lodges as the triumph, not
of Roman Catholics over Protestants, but lie looked on it as
the triumph of Protestants and Catholics, as well as of tho
law itself, over an institution which had for its open and pro-
fessed object the subversion of the law.—(Cheers.) He had
ever been, since the first institution of this association, a deter-
mined oppenent of it ; but never at any time, or upon any
occasion, had he ever disparaged the motives cf the great pro-
portion of the honourable and respectable persons who be-
longed to it. If he could nut give the Orangemen the praise
of wisdom and discretion in their proceedings, he most will-
ingly and readily subscribed to their sense of propriety and
honour.-4 Hear, hear, hear.) He could not believe that such
men could for a moment entertain so wild and frantic a scheme
as the disturbance of the succession; but absolving them alto-
gether from such a suspicion, they could not be considered as
relieved from the charge of allying themselves to an institu-
tion pernicious to the best interests of the country.—( Loud
cries of " Hear.") The value, the whole value, in his eyes: of
the dissolution of this Society, was the prospect it afforded of
restoring harmony to Ireland.—(Cheers.) He might, per-
haps, be sanguine in his expectations--after the warmth of
feeling exhibited by the Noble Lords opposite, lie was cer-
tainly not so sanguine as be had previously been : but he
did still entertain a strong hope that the prospect of return-
ing tranquillity and happiness to Ireland was at length opened
to their view.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl amongst those
observations which might perhaps be better omitted in his
address, had assumed that Protestantism in Ireland was com-
mensurate with Orangeism.• Ile begged their Lordships to
look around them before they adopted such a conclusion, when
if they did so they would see that there were Protestants, 9311 C
of the most respectable persons in Ireland, men who stood the
highest in rank amongst the inhabitants of the country, and
the most established, in the opinion of Protestants, for their re-
linious sincerity and zeal, who were decided enemies to those
, Orange associations.—(Cheers.) Nothing, therefore, could
be further from the fact, that the Roman Catholic party
alone was arrayed in hostility to these proceedings.—( Hear,
hear.) Now as to the origin of this association. It took
its rise in an opposition to the necessity which had become
imperative, of governing Ireland, net for the purposes of up-
holding the ascendaincy of any class, but for the good of
the_ whole people.—( Hear, hear.) From the first moment
of the agitation of the question, the body oppesed itself to the
measure of Catholic Emancipation. They might have been
perfectly right.
The Duke of CUMBERLAND :—( Hear, hear!)
Lord PLUNKET—The Illustrious Duke might be per-
fectly right in his opinion of the itnpolicy of that measure.
He was happy to base the good fortune of entirely going along
with the Illustrious Duke in his statement of the view •taken
by the Illustrious Duke of that question. So far from mis-
representing, he was glad to perceive that he had stated fairly,
and be hoped respectfully—and without meaning to disparage
the Illustrious Duke's motives, for he believed he was per-
fectly conscientious in the opinions which he entertained—the
sentiments which the Illustrious Duke felt and expressed on
that measure.—(Het.r, hear.) But the Illustrious Duke could
not deny that the origin of the Society was that Roman Ca-
tholics should not be admitted to equal rights with their Pro
testant fellow-subjects. The Association was formed on that
principle—it had been continued on that principle—(Much
cheering)—and at this moment (continued the Noble
Illustrious Duke were the only thing necessary to bring
Learned Lord), I am quite satisfied that if the assent of and
aboutthe
such a consummation—if such an event depended upon him,
and could be effected by his wish, he could easily believe that
he would most readily and cheerfully abolish all that has been
attained, and overturn the whole fabric of which Catholic
Emancipation formed the fox.
t
and is, entitledhold
Now the Illustrious Duke
was,
but the House of
his own opinions upon that subject ;
himself, did not Lords,
the House of Commons, and the King
• naution.—(Much cheering. )
happen
the popular to abandon.
to coincide w
on a principle which the
with the Illustrious Duke. say,.then, that this
Orange Society was formed
mindabsolute
—( Hear.) . I am lllustrious Duke (the
Duke of Wellington) is not
present ; for
illustrious I may call
him, with reference loth to his exploits in the field and his
necessity
of
the
tithes compelled
say that an
rank in the country—for if he were here I should have his sanc-
tion of, and concurrence in, the declaration that the original
principle on which this Society was founded, cannot be sus-
tained by and man who knows what is passing in the country,
and reflects upon the consequences of blindly opposing the un-
conquerable determination of a people.— ( Hear, hear.) The
Noble and EseaWd Lord therfproceeded to say, that the values
of the resolutions of the House of Commons, and of the cles-
claration from the Throne, was that the people of Ireland
should be free, and that the whole people should have equal
civil privileges, i fact as well as in law. "My Lord (conti-
nued the Noble and Learned Lord), what I mean to say i*