The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-26 00:00:00

Aid Bill vv:i's because they felt that it would aggravate
instead of mitigate the evils.
Afier a few words from Mr. HORS MAN,
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL attain ros-. and was met by
loud cries of " order " and " spoke." He presumed that
he would be perfectly in order if he moved the adjourn •
ment of the House.
The SPEAKER trusted that the Honourable Gen-
tleman would confine himself to the question of ad-
journment.
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL then proceeded to state that
it was quite clear that there eves no disposition on the
part of the House to consider the question of Irish dis-
tress.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," and laughter).
Mr. SPOONER wished to know whether the Hon.
Member had moved the adjournment of the House, with
a view to the speedy discussion of Irish distress.—(Cheers
and laughter.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL continued —The scale of relief
administered in Ireland was too low—lower in fact than
it was either in England or Scotland. The Honour-
able Gentleman proceeded to charge the Government
with a design of starving out the Irish people—a charge
weich he hal already made, but which bad never been
answered.
The SPEAKER inquired who seconded the motion o!
the HO3. Gentleman? No one replied, and the suhjtet
and the motion dropped Together,
MR. HUME'S MOTION FOR PARLIAMENTARY
It EFOR NI.
In answer to a question from Mr. CAMPBELL,
Sir JOSHUA WALMSLEy said that the Hon.
Member for Montrose fully purposed bringing on his mo-
tion for Parliamentary reform on the sth of June.
REPORT ON SUPPLY—NAVY ESTIMATES.
On this motion for bringing up the reports upon the
votes agreed to in the last Committee of Supply,
Mr. COBDEN hoped that the report upon vote No. 8
would be postponed, as the Hon. Member for Montrose,
who was prevented from attending by indisposition, had
an amendment upon the Imper with respect to it.
Sir F. BARING consented to postpone taking the re-
port on the vote until next Thursday.
Colonel SIBTHORP then rose to bring under the at-
tention of the House the salaries of the principal officers
of the Admiralty. He observed that the members of
Government, in their zeal for economy, ware reducing
everybody's salaries but their own, and contended that
the salaries of the principal officials of the Admiralty
were greatly overpaid, He would reduce the salary of
a year. He would next propose
tt
oh the
oFpi First Lord
two
iaboy 0
Lords altogether,
whose salaries amoue ted,
one of them to 1,0001, the other to 1,2001. a year. Thus
a reduction of 2,7004 would be at once effected. He
would then propose to strike off 10 per cent. from the
salaries of the secretary, the storekeeper, the surveyor,
and several subordinate officials, wbo would still be very
very handsomely paid. Tne Hon. and Gallant Colon, I
concluded by proposing the reduction of the vote from
136,3031 to 132,753/
Captain PECHELL observed that the Honourable
' and Gallant Gentleman could not be serious in his mo-
tion. There was no department of the Government the
officers of which were worse paid, and—it they did their
duty—harder worked, than were the gentleman con
netted with the Admiralty. He had risen, however, for
the purpose of calling the attention of the House to the
petition of the masters in the royal navy, which he had
some time since presented to Parliament. Nominally,
these officers, who were persons holding a very respon •
sible position, were ranked with lieutenants, but actually
and in practice they only held a position between the
junior lieutenants and the midshipmen. He trusted that
the admira:ty would take into consideration the case of
the lieutenants and commanders, who complained that
the promotion list was improperly made up, and that
the system of retiring pensions was defective. He com-
plained of the present system of freights for treasure,
and contended that the practices of wangling specie on
the coast of Mexico had a prejudicial effect upon the
Spanish bondholders. The sums which had accrued to
toe Admiralty from various sources should, he maen
twined, be applied to the increase of the half-pay, and to
making a provision for the widows of officers in the
service.

After a rew words from Colonel SIBTHORP,
Mr. B. COCHRANE said he was desirous of asking
the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Admi-
ralty whether, in the face of events passing abroad, it
was the intention of the Government to continue these
reductions in the navy? It was not his own opinion
alone, but the opinion of the entire public press, and of
all those who had turned their attention to foreign
affairs, that even if a general war were not inevitable, it
waslikelythat
otiiietie. He asked h
wholes ofthecontinetnte woulds
soon be
involved in hGovernment
whether they deemed this to be the proper moment for
carrying out reductions, which he admitted at another
time might be reasonable and just? In 1792, Mr. Pitt
had built upon a fifteen years' peace, but it had been
terminated in six months. Looking at the recent decla-
ration of the Emperor of Russia, and the events which
were passing around us, he asked the Government whe
dang e t o
r
come upon us, would theyethoenrtinuea
didoonuortsethoinfkreitdwueatsio unasvv
have to be made good at a double
cost to the country.
Admiral DUNDAS, replying to the objections
Hon. and Gallant Member for Brighton, maintained that
masters ought not to expect to be
Hall had risen by placedhis on the same
tooting with Lieutenants. Captain iwiehicahn,d shouldectio injudiciousn s of the
own merit, and he trusted that others would follow his
example, but he was averse to sanctioning the principle
for which the Hon. and Gallant Member contended.
Sir F. BARING observed that it was not a pleasant
thing to be involved in a discussion oa one's own salary.
—(Great laughter.) But be did no:. think that the
case of the Admiralty was one which presented features
particularly calling tor the pruning knife. In 1831, a
period of great anxiety with respect to economy and
retrenchment, a Committee of the House had gone
through the different Government salaries, and had
fixed what they considered to be proper sutni for each
ttfice. On that occasion the salary of the First L)rd of
the Admiralty had been reduced by 500/.. leaving it at
4,5001. instead of 5,0001. The salary of the four Lords was
fixed at 4,0004, and after an inquiry they were declared
entitled to half-pay. The salary of the firs: secretary
had also been reduced to its present standard. Last
year the Committee appointed to revise all the estimates
of the Admiralty, had nut found that the salaries were
excessive. If the House were disposed to enter upon the
general question of salaries (No, no), he was prepared;
but he trusted that he need not further dwell upon the
salaries attaching to the Admiralty, lle thought that the
clerks of accounts fully earned their salaries in the check
which they constituted to improper expenditure. The
Hon. Member for Bridport had spoken of reductions,
and he (Sir Francis Baring) thought there was an im-
pression abroad that those reductions were more consi-
derable than they ought to be. If the house recurred
to the number, 40,000 men, which had been yoted in
the present year, and compared it with the numbers
voted in former years, they would find that the present
numbers were by no means inconsiderable. If it should
occur that we were called upon for an active exercise of
our strength, he trusted that the navy would nut be
asking for on the part of the Government in
assistance, should it be needed.e
found inefficient. He could assure the House that there
would be no
nonoshurnitnrkyint
The subject of freights was one which should not be lost
sight of; but he thought it was one which would be bet-
ter discussed on another occasion.
Mr. SPOONER was of opinion, that in order to effect
a general reduction of the salaries of Government offi-
cers, you must begin with the salaries of individuals,
The policy of the country having declared that low
prices were to be the order of the day, he thought that
the present scale of Government salaries ought not to
ba maintained. What would be the moral effect upon
the people of the Government, by their policy, beating
doe n the incomes of others, and still keeping up aid"
own? In the present state of the country, he did not
think that those salaries coul 1 be justified.—[Sir J.
Graham ; Put the Government on corn rents.]
(Laughter.) If the Hon. and Gallant Colonel went to a
division, he should have his support.
Captain BERKELEY contended that since 1770 the
salaries of the Lords of the Admiralty nad not been
raied, whilst those of other Government officers had been
ER admitted that, with the exception
augmented.
of CthaeptNaion Lord°blßeLD O_
at the head of the Government, and
the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home
Department, the duties of the First Lord of the Ad
miralty were the most onerous attaching to the Govern
ment.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQiITER—Mine
are rather o
heavy.-- a la owould
yD. E (a- La u gh (Laughter.)
r. )
also
Hon. Gentleman, it he pleased. T exheHon, the
and Gallant
Rg h t
,mmtoendethdethastubt
jbeectGoovfernhmoneonrtasryhouldturn
attentionits
gember c
re
distinc-
tions as affecting the Marines, contending that that
branch of the service bad not their full share of re-
wards. He thought also that the Marines were
entitled to the same consideration with respect to their
admission to the national hospitals as the two other
branches of the service. If the Government would be-
stir themselves in this matter they would receive the
thanks of a brave, honourable, and gallant class of men.
Colonel SlBrtioßp, in reply, expressed his wonder
at the absence from both sides of the House of the usual
sticklers for econowy._(Laughter.) He should not
divide the House, resting content with having " shown
up" the Government to the country.—(Laughter.)
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked for explanation re-
specting a sum of 484,738/ , which had been carried to
revenue in the year just closed. Had any portion of that
amount arisen from the sale of old stores ?
Sir F. T. BARING said the item alluded to included
all kinds of stores and the repayment of certain advances
under the same head; but if the Hon. Baronet wished it,
a detailed statement would be produced.
The report was then agreed to.
SUPPLY.—ARMY ESTIMATES.
The House then went into Committee of supply; Mr.
Bernal in the chair.
The first vote proposed was a sum not exceeding
1,855,5684, for defraying the charge of her Maje.ty's
land forces in the United Kingdom and in stations abroad,
being part of a sum of 3 655,5881.;
of which 1,800,000/.
had already hPen granted on account.
Mr. 13, OSBORNE (alluding to the thinness of the at-
tendance in the House) said it was not very encouraging
for any Hon. Member to enter into the discussion of
questions affecting the expenditure of the country, be-
cause it appeared that, whenever that which more than
anything else fell within the peculiar business and pro-
vince of the House had to come on for consideration, lion.
Gentlemen, and even the financial reformers themselves,
deserted their posts, and left but a beggarly account of
empty benches for any diligent advocate of ec roomy and
retrenchment to address his remarks to. He therefore did
not propose at present to go into any lengthened di—
tails; but he must say he felt convinced, from the condi-
tion in which the army was kept, and the enormous
establishments chiefly connected with the civil de-
partment, that great reductions could easily be effected,
and the army maintained in increased efficiency by being
managed with greater simplicity. The British army
was c 11604 Under Ores different beads, drat, there