The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-26 00:00:00

was the 'infantry and cavalry under the Horse Guards;
then the Ordnance corps, under a separate board; and,
lastly, the commissariat, which was a separate branch,
under the management of the Treasury. Now, he
maintained, that te no other country in the world was
there such an arrangement of the three different branches
of the army under three separate heads. The manage-
ment of the Horse Guards cost 94,199/4 that of the
Ordnance 91,1361.; and that of the commissariat, which
was said to be the cheapest managed of all, being under
the Treasury, 316,000/. Now, if they were all placed
under a Minister of War, having a seat in Parliament,
as was the case in other countries, instead of being me-
naced in the present cumbrous and costly manner, the
country would gain considerably in point of economy arid
simplicity. This was not a new idea of his. In the year
1537 a commission was appointed to inquire into these
matters, and their report recommended that the army
should be placed under the management of such a minis-
ter ; that the Ordnance should be consolidated with the
Horse Guards; and that the civil department should be
kept separate. However, from that day to this, and
although they hal a committee sit, ing upstairs, tar stop
had yet been taken to carry out the report of the com-
missioners. It was plain a very considerable saving in
this manner might be made. Why not abolish the office
of Master-Gem ral of the Ordnare e, by which they
might save 9.0001. a year? The same might be said of
the Secret try at War's office, upon syl.sh they n ; eset
save 5,000/.; and by abolisideg the office of Judge-
Advocate—whose excellent deputy, Mr. Rogers, did all
the work, and had a selury of 8001.-2,500/. more might
be saved. Then 6,836/. a year was the charge in this
country for agency, although there was no agency re-
quired ;or the Indian army, and he could not therefore
understand why it should be necessary for the
troops at home. Altogether he was persuaded
about 56.000/. a year might be save d in these
departments.—(Hear.) He must also call attention to
the great disproportion of generals to the number
of men in our army as compared with the armies of other
countries. In 1783, about the time of the American
war, we had 824 general and field officers ; in 1799,
about the time of the French war, the number was 1,863;
and now, in the year 1848, at a time of peace, they were
increased to 2,106. We had a staff and a number of
officers greater than was required for the whole French
army of 400,000. We had 9 field-marshals, 58 generals.
67 lieutenant-generals, 174 major-generals ; and yet the
whole strength of our army was only 180,000 men.
Eight or ten thousand a year, too, might be saved by
doing away with brevets. Were the House not so empty
he might pursue the question further ; but he was sure
he would be able to snow a Committee that a material
saving might be effected as regarded the staff of officers,
and that a much better arrangement might be made with
respect to the retired and half pay list. Then, as re-
garded the clothing of the regiments, there could not be a
worse system than leaving it in the hands of the colonels.
He believed that if the Government toek the clothing
into its own hands, and adequately remunerated the
colonels, as they did in the case of the artillery, giving
them sufficient pay, instead of leaving them to eke it out
by a profit on the clothing of their men, the men would
be better clothed, greater satisfaction would be given,
and a saving would be effected to the country of about
14.0001. a year. He found that in the year 1847, the
clothing of the French army, including the expense of
tents and encampments in Algiers, was only about
464,000/. for 370,125 men; or an average of 11. 13s. 21.
per head. Then again in Prussia, the aver tee coo
of clothing in the Prussian army was only 11.:15s. lOd.
per head ; but in England, in the year 1847, the
cost of clothing an army of 132,199 men was 402,142/. ;
or more than 31. per man. How it was that the
French and the Plessians clothed their soldiers
better and cheaper than we, who were considered to be
the best manufacturers in the world, could do, he would
leave it for the Manchester manufacturers themselves to
say, but he hoped the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell)
would use his influence with the Horse Guards, to alter
the whole system of clothing, which, besides its other
evils, exposed the colonels to invidious remarks; which,
as a class of men, he was sure they did not deserve.
Instead of receiving their present allowance upon the
clothing of their regiments, to make up their insuffi-
cient pay, why not give them a salary of
1,000/. a year, and save 35,000/. to the country ? Then
the proportion of officers to the number of men was
excessive. There was one officer to every nineteen men
in the army. In the Horse Guards there was one officer
to eleven men, and one-non-commissioned officer to every
six of the men. The second-majors of the infantry might
altogether be done away with, and a saving of 45,000/.
thereby effected. The cavalry force, exclusive of house-
held cavalry, equalled twenty-two regiments. Five of
them were under the East India Company; but the re-
maining seventeen ought to be condensed into twelve
regiments, which would reduce the staff, and lead to
economy. A saving could also be effected by filling up
the places of assistants in the various offices of the dif-
ferent departments of the army from the retired or half-
pay list. A clerk in the Commander in-Chief 'a office
retired, alter forty years' service, upon 7001. a year;
whereas the retiring pay of a general was only 4001. a
year. In these various methods they might go on re-
ducing item after item, until they effected an aggregate
saving, he would venture to say, little short of half a
million a year. Our old colonial system must also be
remodelled; and in this way alone could they reduce their
estimates, that were so excessive.
Mr. F. MAULE having, he said, entered fully into
the whole question of the army when he introduced the
estimates to the House, should not think it necessary to
trouble the Committee at any length on the present oc-
casion, the more particularly as most of the t pica upon
which the Hon. Members had touched were at present
andereting the consideration of the Committee up stairs
to which the estimates had been referred. Far from
concurring with the Hon. Member in the condemnation
which he had passed on the agency system, he believed
that it was as economical te the public as it was conve-
nient to officers. As regarded the question of clothing,
he begged to remind the Mon. Member that a Committee
which sat in 1833, after fully investigating the matter,
came unanimously to the decision that, bodies regarded
economy and efficiency, it was the beet system which
could be adopted. Fur his part, however, he was not
wedded to the present system, and if it could be proved
that greater efficiency as well as economy would result
from the Government taking the matter into its own
hands, as was done in the Ordnance department, doubt-
less that course ought to be adopted.
Mr. COI3DEN complained that whilst the reduction
of men this year had been carried to 10 per cent, the re-
duction of officers had been limited to two per cent. He
did not say that either the army or navy was overpaid,
but what he complained of in both services was that we
had more than we wanted, and it any retrenchment
were made it must be a reduction of the number. But
to effect that reduction in the army there must be a
change in our colonial system; at present the army in
the colonies acted as police.—(Hear.) They had latsly
heard of acts of incendiarism in Canada. Some parties
there burned the Parliament-house because the majority
in the house did not vote in a manner to suit the views
of these incendiaries. He would call them incen
diaries—(Hear) —and no person in that House or in this
country would have any sympathy with them. But it
appeared that at that time there were only two consta-
bles in Montreal; and why ?—because the English Go-
vernment undertook to treat these colonies as children
to find soldiers for the service of the police.—(Hear,
hear.) He would tell the people of every town in Canada
that they must depend upon themselves for the main-
tenance of their own peace.—(Hear.)
Mr. OSBORNE wished to refer to what was com-
monly called the " shell jacket question." Perhaps the
Right Hon. Gentleman himself did not see the unfortu-
nate. officers in those jackets, as they really were in the
position of scarecrows—(A laugh)—gt ing about the
country, laughed at end stigmatised wherever they went.
—(Heer, hear.) If the Right Hon. Gentleman could
see some of the old officers in those shell jackets, and
the ridiculous objects they were, he would admit that
either the whole army ought to be clothed alike, and the
principle applied to-the household troops as to the line.
or that ad. jacket should be abolished.—(Hear, hear.)
But the officers of the line were not allowed to wear
them when they might really be of service, namely, at
mess, though the Dragoons who came froth the richer
classes, were allowed to mess in their stable dress.—(A
laugh.) If they in tended to make the army a terror to
the enemy by their hideous appearance, the rule should
be applied to all branches of it —(A laugh.) He wished
also to ask why the bearskin caps were taken from the
Fusileers but retained by the household guards?
Mr. F. MAULE believed that this question had made
more noise in the House than in the army;—(hear)—for
his part, he had heard no complaint of the dress. It was
adopted simply because it was thought necessary that
officers when employed in the lino should be clothed in
the same dress as the men.
Colonel LINDSAY (reserved that the reason why the
bear-skin caps were taken from the Fusileers was that
the price of bears rose.—(Great laughter.)
The vote was then agreed to.
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and officers of hospitals at home and abroad,
Mr. LOCKHART complained of the increase in the
estimate for the general staff et Malta, in consequence
of the appointment of a civil governor over that island,
and said he believed that not a single military man in
the united kingdom would defend such an appointment
in times like the present.— (Hear, hear.) He wished to
test the opinion of Hon. Gentlemen whether they thought
it a job or not; and he should therefore move that the
salary of the staff allowance to the Lieutenant-General
should be stopped after the Ist of September.
Mr. HAWES thought the Hon. Gentleman, without un-
derstanding much of the subject on which he had spoken,
had, he must permit him (Mr.Hawes) to say, characterised

this transaction in a manner utterly unjustified and un-
justifiable. The Hon. Gentleman had denounced the ar-
rangement made for the government of Malta as a job.
lie (lir. Hawes) did not know one thing that the people
of Malta had longer called for than the appointment of a
civil governor; and he did not know any appointment
ever made that had been more successful for the interests
of that island. When his Noble Friend was called on to
appoint a governor of Malta he took into his considera-
tion undoubtedly that there would be an increase of ex-
pense, but he reduced the salary of the governor 5001. a
p ar, in order partly to meet that adfitional expense.
From the island there was no complaint—no petition.--
(Mr. Osborne—They don't pay for it.) On the contrary,
there had been the strongest expres,ion of approbation
at the appointment. It was true that a civil gover-
nor could not be appointed without increased expense,
because the former governor (Sir P. Stewart) being a
general officer united in himself the civil duties of go-
vernor and the military dunes of Commander•in-Chief,
which would not be dune by Mr. O'Ferrall. He did
nut wish to speak in the slightest degree invidiously of
the preceding administration of Sir P. Stewart; he was
a gentlern.in of high character and ability, and adminis-
tered the government to the sati,faction of previous
Secretaries or Sate—(Hear)—but when Mr. O'Ferrall
when to Matta there was very considerable popular dis-
content and diasatisfactiue; but he could say now tha;
Ras eutirely allkyed by the wisdom aid m9d9r4t104 of