The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-06 00:00:00

ject was received on the 24th or 25th of May ; the order
was sent out on the 31st;- but as no answer has been yet
received, I must object to the production of that order, as it
can only give a partial view of the subject. With respect
to the chartering of ships, the King's Advocate has been
consulted on the subject by Mr. Hoppner, and from his
opinion it would appear that we .should not be justified in
making any additional_ restrictions—that the chartering
was. not inconsistent with the law of nations, but that the
ships so taken must not expect the support of the Bri.
tish Government, as they would-be lawful prizes if taken
by the enemy ; this being the state. of the case, I shall
also feel it to be my duty to refuse the second set of docu-
ments moved for by the Noble Earl. The third part of
the Noble Earl's motion is for such information as the
Government has received as to.the direction of any armed
force from the Azores for the purpose of attacking Por.
tugal. My. Lords, I am sure that the Noble Earl cannot
expect to obtain such information ; and that if he did,
the. House would never consent to its production. Nay,
I believe that this is the very first time that such infor-
m
ttion has ever been called for ; and, at all events, I have
one short and very satisfactory answer to such an appli-
cation, which is, that whatever extensive means of in-
f. omation the Noble Earl may have—(A laugh)e--no such
information as that described has reached the Government;
and that, therefore, the return to this part of the motion,
if it should pass, must be nil. —(A laugh.) Having
thus gone through the three divisions of the Noble Earl's
,notion, though as to following all the divisions of the
Noble Earl's speech it was an absolute impossibility, I
shall conclude, my Lords, by. giving my decided negative
to the motion now before the House.—(Loud cheers. )
The Duke of WELLINGTON thought that the cen-
sure of the Noble Earl on his Noble Friend for having'
entered into a history of Portuguese affairs, was mis-
placed ; because it was absolutely necessary fur the pur.
pose of showing his reasons for making the motion with
which he concluded. His Noble Friend had stated, and
he thought rightly, that the French invasion of Portugal
had some ulterior object ; that that was so, was in his
opinion clearly made out by the document from Paris
which his Noble Friend had quoted, and which emanated
from one of those gentlemen of the Press, who, he was
afraid, had too much to say to the Governments of both
eountries.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) In that docu-
ment it was positively stated that the French Admiral had
directions to inquire whether there was any prospect of
exciting a revolution in Portugal.—(Hear, hear.) He,
however, found that there was no such prospect, and bad,
therefore, desisted from that discretionary power which
had been given to him. He (the Duke of Wellington)
would, however, do, the Government the justice to, say,
that he believed that they bad endeavoured to prevent that
species of interference. He also believed that they had.
tried to prevent the demand of the possession of Fort St.
Julien—(Hear, hear)—and yet they were told by the
Noble Earl that they must not advert to these things,
though the whole question was one of revolution and pos-
vession.—(Hear, hear.) He (the Duke of Wellington)
recollected the debate to which the Noble Earl had alluded,
and he did not deny that the words attributed to his Noble
Friend had been used by him. But what he wanted to
know was, whether they were to sacrifice Portugal be-
cause it happened that his Noble Friend had, in a former
debate, disapproved of
.the conduct of the King of -Por-
tugal on a former occasion. In this country,. and
as long as the Emperor of Brazil remained in this country,
he could never regard him otherwise than as an in-
dividual. He would of course regard him as a member of
a distingUished family—as one who bad held a high situa-
tion, hitt still as an individual who had no more right than
any, other to violate the laws of this country. He was no
more at liberty than was any one else to occupy, himself,
while in this country, with the planning expeditions to
the Azores,' or from one island to another. He did not
mean to insinuate that the King's Ministers were any
parties to this; but yet, front the speeches, which some at
d.fferent times had delivered in that House, he could not
but suspect them, or at least say that they gave grounds
for a suspicion, that they might have mixed themselves
up With such proceedings. Whether they had done so or
not, of this at least he felt perfectly assured, that it would
ill become the Ministers of King William IV., a Monarch
bred up in the Navy, to advise their Royal Master to make
Use of any ships but his own for warlike purposes. If it
unhappily became necessarygir our Gracious Sovereign to
adopt any hostile proceedings, it would be most unfaithful
indeed to recommend him to carry them on in any mean,
shuffling manner through the agency of the ships or the
arms of individual•subjects. It was therefore that his
Noble Friend and the Noble ,toids at that side of. the
House had a right to inquire What:course had been taken
in reference to the transactions in the Western Islands?
Whit had been 'done to. prevent the invasion of St.
qeorge's Island ? and what had been done respecting
the seizures effected under the directions of tip Ree
gene, of Terceira? ss.and further, had they demanded
compensation ' for the injury done to the property;
of British subjects ?—(Hear, hear.) Had they de-1
mended and obtained that compensation in the same
manner as in the case of the Portuguese Government in
Lisbon? It was of course no part of the duty or the
business of this country to interfere between one branch of
the House of Braganzs and another; but surely we were
hound by treaties to prevent any further invasion of the
rights and independence of that part of the Portuguese
territory to which he alluded—namely, Terceira. Noble
Lords must be well aware, that not a single ship came from
the south or from the west which did not pass those
islands; was it, then to be sanctioned by the Government
of this country, that a piratical power should be established
in a quarter so important to the commerce of this part of
the world ? He hesitated not to say, that if they allowed
the present occupation of those places to continue, they
must be prepared to employ British force, for nothing less
than British force would suffice to take possession of those
islands. His Noble Friend did not by any means desire
to obtain at the hands of the King's Ministers any secret
information ; but what he did seek was, the official infor-
tnation that had reached them respecting the seizure of the
vessels referred to at the Azores for the purpose of inva-
sion. On the whole, he thought that it was the duty of
the King's Ministers to take care to prevent the kingdom
of Portugal from falling into the hands of those who were
the moat inclined to advance that influence really adverse,
arid to prevent revolutionary movements there, if possible,
otherwise we should be 'unable to avail ourselves of those
resources which that country could supply during the
crisis which is now banging over us.
Lotd HOLLAND said, that during the speech of the
Noble Earl who had opened the present discussion, he had
felt the utmost difficulty in connecting the topics which
he introduced with the subject .tnatter of the motion; and
though many of them were luminously and powerfully
stated by the Noble Earl, yet he could not but feel that
in their introduction there was something improper, un-
fair, and almost unparliamentary. lie confessed he did
feel the utmost surprise at hearing the Noble Lord adopt-
ing as a reason for urging the present motion upon the
acceptance of the House, that a French Newspaper had
affirmed that the Government and the people of France
entertained ulterior views upon Portugal; but finding
that the people of this country were indisposed to second or
sanction such views, they were altered, if not totally
abandoned; thus he founded his motion upon what ap-
peared in one part of the Newspapers, and though he ad.
verted to that in another part of the same Paper, yet
he seemed to overlook the force of the contradietion.
A writer in a French Journal stated that his nation
and Government were supposed to have ulteripr ob.
jects with respect to France; but on account of
what occurred here, these vanished into nothing ;
and then the Noble Lord came down to that Houk,
and gravely spoke of the speculations of a French
Journalist, as documents having almost the weight of
official documents. Really ;he demand made on the pre-
sent occision, was one which, in all his experience, he bad
never seen paralleled—demands of such a nature hid never
been made by him, or any Noble Lord when at the ether
side of the Home. From such motions they bats always
most carefully abstained ; they never called for that which
ought to be secret information, still less did they ever make
a motion fouptled upon suspicion. What a novel ground
it was for a motion, to say to the King's Government,
that we suspect you intend to do so and so, and there-
titre we call for information, But the Noble Puke said,
that was not the sole ground upon which he supported
the motion. The mover dwelt upon the duty of Mini-
sters not to go to war, otherwise than in an open, manly, 1
and straightforward way ; but if they had no right to in-
terfere as they had done with respect to the proceedings at
Lisbon, why did not the Noble Duke come forward at
that time and arraign them ? If he had, there would be no
difficulty in that case with respect to papers. Instead of
doing that, however, the Noble Puke stood forward to sup-
port the present miserable motion, though he really did not
seem to do so from anything like conviction operating upon
his own mind ; but rather as
.a piece of gallantry to sup-
port his Noble Friend, Pe fully agreed with the Noble
Lords who had Preceded hint, that the Azores were a matter
of great importance to this country on account of the
vessels which touched there ; but it was on the other side
contended that they ought to be considered as a whole ;
and he would reply to that—so ought Portugal to be con-
sidered us a whole in connection with them. There was no
denying for a moment that they were of great importance
for ships to touch at ; but who could show that any
thin had been done which tended to establish .a piratical
power, as bad been asserted, at the Azores ? Had, not, in ,

' fact, the whole conduct of his Majesty's Government struck
away the ground from any such suspicion. For his own
individual part, he desired rather to refrain from than to
indulge in the use of such language, as cruel, cowardly,
menstrous, applied to persons either in very high stations,
or much depressed by misfortune ; he should, therefore,
neither follow the example of, nor reply to the philippic
uttered by the Noble Lord. In his opinion that House
had nothing to do with the personal character of the
Members of the House of Braganca, and he never
said otherwise when at the opposite side of the
House ; and -if, inadvertently, he could haVe so spoken,
he should then most readily retract any such expres-
sion ; but then they were told that Don Pedro must
not be allowed in any respect to compromise -the peace
of this country. Did any rational being suppose that
the present motion • would tend to prevent his doing
Si'? What had the proceedings of the Regency at Ter-
ceira to do with the proceedings of Don Pedro in this
country?—(Cheers.) It hail been said that the Regency
at Terceira was a piratical Government ; but if this Go-
vernment acknowledged Donna Maria, as she had been
acknowledged at this Court, in terms rather stronger than
he should have used—he alluded to its being stated in an
official document, that by the law of nature she was en-
titled to the throne of Portugal.—(The Earl of Aberdeen
said " No!") He would find it in a despatch addressed
to the Marquis Barbacena, and dated the 13th of March.
(Soule conversation passed between his Lordship, the E trl
of Aberdeen, and other Noble Lords.) Well, it was
stated that she was entitled to the Throne of Portugal ac-
cording to the order of nature; and by the same Noble
Lords who hail used such language, they were called upon
to recollect the treaties which had been entered into be-
tween this country and. Portugal. Yes, he would bear
.them in mind, and he would ask upon whom they were
binding?—binding, as respected Terceira, as well as Por-
tugal itself. The Noble Lord might, as he then did,
take up his pen, full of a triumphal answer, which would
ler that the people of Portugal had declared for Don
Miguel.—(A laugh.) Yes, Don Miguel had introduced a
sweeping Reform into Portugal : he got rid of his G itton
and his Old Sarum, and the people of Portugal had de-
clared for Don Miguel. But he would tell the Noble
Earl that such a species of reply is not that which-should
be given. in a British House of Legislation; and especi-
ally it formed no fit subject of .debate in times like the
present—times in which lie would take the liberty to
say that the allusions made to the French Revolution and
to that of Portugal had been, most inopportune and inju-
dicious. What was the confiscation of property—what
the imprisonments, executions, and exiles which the
French suffered as comp tred with those inflicted upon the
Portuguese, when the difference of extent of soil and
amount of population were taken into the account? Let
the House only reflect upon how the matters stood. He
would once more repeat, that no person could be more
averse than he was to anything like personal discussions ;
but the British Government, as matters at present stood,
had to choose between two Powers—one of whom the
Crown of Great Britain had acknowledged, with the
other it had held no diplomatic relations for more than
three years. If they had to choose, they surely acted most
wisely in giving a preference to that which could afford
them a just cause for-war, should they be driven to that
extreme necessity. It was well known to every Noble
Lord who heard him that the present ruler had broken his
most solemn pledges ; that be was quod dicere nolo ; and
that the British Government, in promoting his views,
would be guilty of-the grossest inconsistency. At the
same time he (Lord H.) saw as plainly as any man could
the interest which this country had in its connection with
Portugal. However, if he were to do that to which he
had a strong objection, namely, come down to that House
and give expression to his suspieiuns—but if lie were to
do so, he should say that he felt a.strong suspicion that
there was no power so hostile to the real interests of Great
Britain as that 'party, in the House and out of it, which
supported the authority of Don Miguel.—(Cheers.) In
his apprehension, one of the duties which this Govern-
ment had to discharge was to prevent the dismemberment
of Portugal—especially to prevent its dismemberment
through the invasion of a foreign power. The Noble Lord
then adverted to the case of the vessel called the Coquette,
and defended the conduct of the Regency of Terceira on
that point, stating that they expressed the most perfect
readiness to make compensation to her owners. The pre-
sent motion was one demanding information upon a sub-
ject, the correspondence relative to which was incomplete;
it was still under consideration; and yet the Noble Lord
preferred it to one in which he might have the fullest and
most complete information.—(Cheers.)
Lord ELLENBOROUGH hoped, that in the nego-
ciations which might be carried on upon the matters in
dispute, care would be- takep to do nothing which would
tend to letting France obtain the same position. in respect
of Portugal, which( this_coOtry had so long occupied
*ad` that we should, on nu occasion or account, truckle to
those who would deprive us' of our most faithful and an-
,ctent ally. •

The Earl of ABERDEEN briefly replied, observing
that the French fleet now in the Tagus had given a new
character to the present discussion.
Tile question was then put, and negatived without a
division.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY wished to know
from the Noble Earl opposite, if the Protocol which had
been laid upon the table of the House, relative to the af-
fairs of Belgium, was or was not to be considered a com-
plete document ?
Earl GREY was understood to say, that the Protocol,
as printed, was a perfect document. There had been a
mistake made by the clerks, between the draught and the
Protocol, which was cancelled, and the document laid on
the table of the House; but the latter was complete.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY wished to know
if there had been any other than verbal communications
from the French Ambassador, on the subject to whit& he
had just alluded ?
Earl GREY said there had been none but verbal com-
munications. _

;:liockei:r—Lordships adjourned at a Quarter past Eight

FROM THE GAZETTE OF LAST NIGHT,

St. James's Palace, August 3, 1831.
This day his Highness the Prince of Lieven, Ambassador Ex-
traordinary and Plenipotentiary from the Emperor of all the
Russian, had an audience of his 'Majesty to deliver a letter from
his Sovereign ;
And Monsieur Van de Weyer, Envoy Extraordinary and Mi-
nister Plenipotentiary from the King of the Belgians, had his
first private audience of his Majesty to deliver his credentials :
To which audiences tllev were respeetively introduced by Lord
Viscount Palinerston, his Majesty!s Principal Secretary of State
for porpigr, Affairs, and conducted by Sir Robert Chester,
Knight, Plaster of the Ceremonies.

i%lonsieur Van de Weyer, Envoy ExtraordMarY
Queen's House, St. James's Palace, August 3.
alld
ifiat:ter
t'elal'lcnipotentiary from the King of the *lgjans, had his
first private
~'o rvhic4 he Was
follnueedrf'clul:tbaejydesbttey Sir Robert Chester, Knight
calenntol°d Earl Howe, her Majesty's
of the Ceremonies.

St. James's Palace, August a
The King was thisday pleased to confer the honour of Knight-
hood upon George Hamilton, Esq., Knight Commander 0.• the
Royal Hanoverian Guelphic Order.

Whitehall, August 4.
Seal, for granting the dignity of a Baronet of thg
The King has been pleased to direct letters patent to be passed
Great• Britain and ;relaild to 01.
Honourable John Key, of ThOrribury, t!g bounty Of thou.
cester. and of the' county of Surrey, Lord
31,13,0 r of thct Oty of London, and the heirs male of his body law.
filly begotten.
under
r the
cifze daotio
of

Crown-Office, August 5:
MEMBER RETURNED TO BERME IN THIS PRESENT AIitLiAMENT.
BOROUGH OF WEYMOUTH ANcl 1141,C0N1 11E R
rGls—Char es
Baring Fall, PAq. in the romn of Iticharst VVeyland,'Es9, io
was elected a Burgess for the said borougb mid also a Knight of
the Shire for the comity of Diford, and bath made his clWim
to serve for the said.CountY of Clicfdrd.

.
Whttelytll, .'29.
crite Loisl Chancqur has appointed Thomas Te_ale Inkersley,
o the ostnand.ebunty of the town of Nottingham, Gent to be a vaster Extraordinary in the High Court of Chancery.

Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of the Ci.'unty of Sussex.
B.
Clegg, Esq,,
G. St. V. T. N. Murray, Esq 2 to be Deputy Lieutenant; Aug' 2.
Commissions by the Lord lieutenant of the County of Nor-
thumberland.
Sir E. Blacitett Bart., J. M. nsley, Bosanquet,
Esq., J. Ilodgson, Esq., 'J. B. Coulson the tigeryou V.sq.,,
Wood, Esq ,to be Deputy Lieutenants, July 23. •
Commission the. Lord Lieutenait of tfiu•' Pouoty Palatine of
Cllek‘e.r.
Ay. Tolaikinson, Esq, 'W. Turner, Esq., J. H. Leigh, Esq.,
be Deputy. Lieutenants, July 9.
Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Derby.
J. H. Harper, Esq., and H. Brooke, Esq., to
C. H. Crewe, Gent., to be Cornet, vice F. Br:A.liaw; resigned,
July 30. Troop of Derbyshire Yeomanry Cavalry.

FRANCIS )3,A BANKRUPTS.
~,,
-4.-,LIST, Leock'sfieldS; Walworth, timber-mer-
chant, to surrender August 0, 19; and -Sept. 16, at ten, 4 (ht. Court ,of Commissioners. Sh.ackell, Tokenhouse,, ard: '
SAMUEL 'HOFFMAN NOCKELTS,. Minemg.line, wine-
merchant, August 12, 19, at tii-ehic,, and Sept. 16, at one, at the
Court of C;,:iltnissionersl. 'fowne, Broad-street-buildings.
MARGARET BRISTOW and JOHN BRISTOW, Ratcliff-
highway, Middlesex, fire-engine-maker, August 12, 19, and
Mo
seprr t. 16, at twelve, at the Court of Commissioners. Willey and
is, Bank-chambers, Lothbury. -
JOHN WALLACE, Belfast, Ireland, merchant, August 24,
26, and Sept. 16, at nine, at the Star Inn, Manchester. Makin-
son
JOHN CHAPMAN, '
froWbritlge;' Wiltshire, victualler.
August i 7, 18, and Sept. 16, at eleven, at the Three Tuns lan,
London.; Hadfield, Manchester.
e, Lincoln's Inn; Bush, Trowbridge.
l,rowanbdSigaen.dernse,::pie,
DAVID SHARP, Mahlon, Essex, cattle-dealer, Aug. 12, at
one, 19, at eleven, and Sent. 16, at twelve, at the Court Of Con-
missiopers. Pattison Witham', Essex; BrookSbank and Fern,
(fray ':,-Inn-square, l'onifoii. '
mom AS FALL; LeybUrn, Yorkshire, bookseller, August
•24, 25, and September 16, at the King's Head Inn, Riehniond,