The Sun.
London, England, 1825-03-22 00:00:00

DITTIES ON NEI.VSI.)APEns.

Mr. ABERCHU:IIBy, in presenting a Petition from the
Newspaper Proprietors of Edinbur,rh against the heavy duties
imposed on that class of publications, observed, that the duty
paid on the newspapers of Edinburgh, during a certain period
which the Hon. Gentleman Jul not state audibly, amounted
to 4,5311. The petitioners, he said, went on to state, that
it the duty on newspapers, as well as that paid i';,r :hive!,
tisernenta, were reduced. much advantage would r,rise tott.c

Mr. Secretary CANNING, in a low tone of voice, said, that
he would candidly acknowledge he was unable to give satisfac-
tory information as to the probable termination of the duties of
the Commission. Whatever facilities existed in transacting
other business with Spain, all that related to money way attend.
ed with peculiar difficulty. The course taken by the British
Government was directed to ascertain with all convenient dis-
patch the nature and amount of outstanding demands, and that
course di:;closed the strongest evidence of a determination to
see justice done. The convention for carrying these obirets
fully into effect was he would not say about to be executed, but
in course of preperation ; it, however, was impossible for him
to u
uncertainty in every
o'n'itl'oll thing d hei finally concluded, there was So
nng connected-with Spain. There
Isayci
cer
will be throughout seen on our part there was no want of ur.two hundred thousand hod been
gency in promoting justice. A s might be expected, the Con.
missioners were frequently changed. and busire:sim in Conse-
quenct proceeded very slowly. At length, after three succes-
sive changes, out of demandsamounting to between three an I
ffr:ri P:leTt.l,rye(tihtehoLstannudiipssoirn'tirs; in la -“;:i r of British in erch a !its.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not
undertake to account for the manner in which every far-
thing collected in the manner adverted to by the Honour-
able Member was disposed of. The Dean and Chapter
of St. Paul's certainly had funds of their own, but they were
in a great degree required to defray the expence of maintain-
ing that structure. They bad lately been at no small experice
in certain reparations necessary in the dome of- the. cathe-
dral. This repair, from the altitude of the dome, was 'at-
tended with great explice and difficulty. It was, he thought,
the duty of the public to maintain those monuments which
they placed in St. Paul's and Westminster Abbey, to dun.
memorate the achievements and the virtues of the great men or
Cieir country. It was their duty to watch over and'protect it a
suitable manner those records of- national honour, which the
gratitude of the country and the liberality of that House had
raised..- (Hear !)‘,..-Ile Agreed with the Bon. Member, that the
fees exacted at Westmi•:ster-abbey, when he had occasion to
were excessively large.--(Ileac!)--The mode of•
;st it,
visit
the monuments and various parts of the building via.*
very inconvenient to the public. Visitors were driven about
there, and no opportunity was permitted of delaying and ex-

arilaing any particular object they may be desirous of inspect-
leg. However he might regret, Government had no power of
interfering to alter it.—(Hear !)
Mr. HUME was glad to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman
condemn the avarice of those exactions to which he had refer-
red. Every liberal man must do so. It was shameful that
those charges should be made, more particularly when it was
considered how ample were the funds and other resources of the
Deans and Capter of St. Paul's and Westminster Abbey. They
actually wallowed in wealth, and ought not to make such a de-
*land as the present.
Mr. W. SMITH was surprised that this subject had notbeen
taken up by a Committee of the House of Commons, more par-
ticularly after the annual complaints they frequently heard of
these feesbeing excessive. The present charge was made, not
only for repairing the cathedral, but also the monuments erect-
ed there at the public expence. Yet the public were not per-
- pitted to see these monuments, which they erected at their own
,expense; without an additional expence for permission to di) so.
Taere was an iron rail at the north and south ends shutting out
- the public from a view of any of the monuments without pay-
ment. The practice was highly improper, and ought to be
-investigated by a Committee of that House. •
Sir J. SEBRIGHT said he was quite ashamed, when shew-
ing Westminster Abbey to strangers, at the charge made at
every turn. It was most discreditable to the country.—(Hear,
hear !)
-1 Mr. HIJME next objected to the grant of 4261. 12s. 6d. to
• T. N. Wittwer, Esq. Accountant to the Board of Commis-
• sioners for the Affairs of India, for having acted as Accountants
4il the part of the public in investigating the accounts between
the public and the East India Company, in conformity with
tfte recommendation of the Committee of the House of Com-
mons in the year 1605, from the sth September, 1822, to the sth
'September, 1823, in conjunction with Wm. Wright, Esq. on
the part of the said Company, and to defray the expences for
'the same period.
Mr. HORTON defended the grant on the ground of the in-
shspecsable necessity of having a person competent (as Mr. W.
'was) to examine these important accounts. He was not paid
by the East India Company, but was the officer employed on
the part of the public.
Mr. H UME next objected to the item of 3501. to J. Fin-
lay-soil, Esq. allowance for services at five hundred pounds
per annum, for half a-year ended sth April, 1824, and that
of his assistant at one hundred pounds per annum, for making
calculations connected with public business, for one year ended
10th October, 1824.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended
that the calculation in which this gentleman was engaged was
of the. utmost importance. He had a mind peculiarly capable
and suited for the task he was engaged in. The object of
these calculations was to make out tables of the greatest accu-
racy ass to the probable lives of annuitants. In determining
the real duration of such lives he had already made some im-
portant discoveries, and had ascertained the real duration to be
greater than it was generally supposed to be. He was engaged
in rectifying and improving on the various former calculations
on this important subject. This was an occupation of great
utility to Government, particularly in respect to their annui-
tants, and those who were concerned in life insurance.
Mr. HUME understood that this gentleman had an office for
the liquidation of the debt. If his services were so important
as they were stated to be, his undivided attention ought to be
given to the subject.
Mr. )IONCK bore testimony to the merit and services of
Mr. Finlayson, from which he expected not only Life-Insur-
ance Companies, but the public in general would derive great

spect to the removal of those restrictions on trade that had sub-
sisted for some length of time, still he feared he must trespass
on the indulgence of the House while he entered into the mo-
tives which produced the alteration of system. When he con-
sidered the many and various interests affected, and the alarms
excited, when he looked to the predilections and prejudices that
were attached, then it was, he thought, reason for going more at
length into the question than otherwise would be necessary.—
(H ear !) If the alterationwhich he should propose were in oppo-
sition to the well-grounded opinion of the country—if he did not
feel that the opinion, as far as it went against the new system,
was erroneous, he certainly must pause before he brought
toward the measure; but that new system lately introduced was
not innovation, it was improvement—an improvement keeping
pace with changes now made necessary by the change in the
circumstances of the country.—(Hear !).--and when these cir-
cumstances changed, it became the duty of a practical states-
man to alter his policy as to keep pace with the changes of time
and of circumstances.—(Hear !)—He was no advocate for in-
novation. With this degree of qualification, he, however, was
an innovator—it was when lie had the sanction of new circum-
stances for the application of new measures.—(Hear !)—He felt
that the experience of every day proved the necessity for that
departere from old notions of trade; still, however, there were
vast interest: at stake, and it therefore behoved the House to
weigh the matter before they came to any resolution, or made
up their minds upon it. The Bight Hon. Gentleman went on
to say that originally he intended to bring three propositions be-
fore the House that night. The first was respecting the Colo-
nial Trade, with a view to the removal of certain restrictions
that bettered the Commerce of the Colonies. The second
was relating to the prohibitory duties on Foreign Manufactures,
and the duties on the Exportation of Raw Manufacturing Ma-
terials. The third proposition which he intended to submit,
related to the Shipping Interest of the Conntry, and was
with a view to the adoption of certain measures for its improve-
ment. When, however, he looked narrowly into the details
of the several questions, and when lie considered their import-
ance, the interests involved, and the opposition likely to be
raised to some of them, he felt it advisable to postpone the two
last, and for that night confine himself exclusively to the first.
And he would again entreat the patience 'of the House while he
entered at some length into the colonial policy of the country.—
This was a most important branch of commerce; it was most
important and interesting too to those who looked at the long
established rules that strictly interdicted all interference with
colonies except to the mother country, that upheld such a mo-
nopoly and prevented all others from either serving or being
served by them. Indeed the only light in which colonies ap:.
pealed was what might possibly be extracted from them, with-
out the least regard to a reciprocity of advantage. If the
House wanted an illustration of such a system, let them look
to Spain, the country that carried it to the greatest lengths,
and was (if he might use the expression) the most exclusive of
all others.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—And yet, perhaps, if other
countries were narrowly observed, they would not appear much
less jealous. Every country mote or less cherished the idea
that all the rest of the world should be shut out from their re-
spective Colonies. So universally did the system prevail, that
it actually became a part of the international law ; and Prize
Courts, in accordance with the principle, had not unfre-
quently decided that neutral vessels conveying the produce of
Colonies even to the Mother Country, were legitimate prizes to
the vessels of that very country. Had no change taken place
in the colonies of Europe within the last few years to make de-
parture from such a course necessary? What, was there no-
thing in the state of Brazil ? What was the present situation
of St. Domingo? And, if a greater example were required, the
House had it in the great Consular and Continental state of
South America. He would pass from these countries forming
colonies, and would ask the House what must be the result of
a consideration of those it still retained—the extensive island of
Cuba, for instance, and Porto Rico ? It was a matter of se-
rious importance to weigh well the influence these changes must
have on their own colonies. What, could it be possible that
any one would say that there was not a sufficient case
made out ; or that, in the midst of so many changes, this
country should make no corresponding one ? He thought En-
gland, as well from a regard to her own interests as from a feeling
of partiality to her colonies, should generously reciprocate the
blessings of commerce ; and he asked, where was the man
who could deny that such a course would not be beneficial
to themselves, as well as to the colonists? He was sure the
House would see the impolicy of going on further in the old
course, and of continuing and, as it were, perpetuating a sys-
tem of monopoly so totally in opposition to every principle of
freedom of trade. Such a system of policy must eventually
weaken the attachment of the colonies to the Mother Country,
a circumstance which no man in his senses could call prac-
tically safe or politically wise.—(Hear, hear !)-lle entreated
the House to turn its attention to the revolutions that had taken
place within the last 50 years in that expanse of country be-
tween the St. Lawrence and Cape Horn ; and he called On
them to adopt such measures as would meet the changes that
were occurring. It was necessary to pursue sonic course with
reference to the continental and insular commerce and nevi-
gation of this country as would enable it to meet the grow-1
ing commerce and navigation of other countries, and parti-
cularly of America ; and it became those who had the charge
of the commerce.of this country, to weigh well and consider
the best means of ensuring that object. With respect to the
subserviency in which colonies were kept, lie believed he might
safely say, no country exhibited greater perseverance on the one
hand, and relaxation on the other. To show how groundless
were the apprehensions entertained of the ill effects of the con-
templated measures, he would beg to refer the House to the
state of Ireland. That country, until the year 17110, was held
in the character of a colonial dependency. Only forty years
ago it was proposed to give her a direct trade to the West In-
dian Colonies ; it was proposed also to allow her to export glass
to foreign countries; yet the House would perhaps recollect 17ow
great was the opposition given to these proposals : it was declar-
ed that she had already received sufficient boons; that if more
were granted its effect would be to make her more, and that
eventually she would eat up the commerce of England; but
that, in fine, if it a ere not impossible to satisfy her, she
would be then perfectly so, anti ask no more concessions.
What did the House think England, in the fullness of her
liberality, granted to that country ? he would tell them : Eng-
land was at that time at war with America, and privilege was
given to the Irish to export butter and beef to the Colonies
That was certainly great liberality, but it did not stop there--
Ireland sent troops to fight for England to America, and in
return she was allowed to export as much of her manufactures
as would clothe her own soldiers, and provisions enough to
support as many soldiers as she had in her own pay.—( Laugh-
ter, and cries of " Hear, hear !)—At that time there were pe.
titions from various parts of England, and it would be worth
while to look into them, to see how far their predictions were
accomplished. One of diem was from Glasgow ; it prayed that
no concessions, either for the present or for the future, be made
to Ireland; that any concessions must materially affect not only
the interests of Great Britain but also those of Glasgow.—(A
laugh.)—Above all lie deprecated granting to Ireland any the
slightest interference with the sugar trade of the West Indies,
to which the aforesaid port of Glasgow, as appeared from the
petition, claimed an hereditary right.—(Laughter.)—The
Right Honourable Gentleman proceeded to say that a si-
milar petition was forwarded from Manchester. The third
petition was from Liverpool, a town which had but then
lately risen to a state of prosperity and commercial opulence,
and it was represented in that petition, that if those proposals
were adopted that town and port would be reduced very spee-
dily to its original insignificance. It was not very surprising,
therefore, that with these statements, so earnestly made in this
House by such bodies of mercantile and commercial men, it
became impossible to sustain at that time those proposals for
benefiting the trade of Ireland. In the year 1779, after the de-
feat of these first proposals, a very limited proposal was made,
it being confined merely to that of allowing Ireland to purchase
sugar for her consumption from the West India Colonies; but
that also was rejected. Soon after, however, circumstances oc-
curred which made a different policy necessary. At the end of
the year 1779 the American war broke out, and then very state
necessity made it necessary for the Government to yield to that
oppteition which under other circumstances it would not have
done.—(Hear !)—ln consequence therefore of this event, these
oppressive restrictions continued up to the period when that Act
was repealed. lie would not go through all the details of what had
been done towards effecting the.melioration of our policy to-
wards Ireland; it would be sufficient to say that we had gone on
from time to time removing one restriction and then another.
Prejudice by degrees had given way, until about two years ago
we had been enabled to remove every obstacle to what might be
called the Union Trade, and that, proceeding in the same course,
we had now ultimately established what might be denominated a
free coasting .trade for that country.—( Hear !)—He had now
taken a cursory view of those principles which had been acted
upon towards Ireland, and he would ask any Hon. Member
in this House, or any person who had at all observed the effects
of the course thus pursued, whether any of those dangerous
results which had been so fearfully prognosticated had hap-
pened, either to the shipping, the manufacturing, the agricul-
tural, or any ether interests of this country ? lie would ask
whether, after all that had been granted to Ireland, England had
at all suffered ? nay, whether, after every concession that had
been made, England had not shared in the advantages as well
as Ireland herself ? lie would address himself to that town
which lie was proud of having the honour to represent—a town
which in its rise had exemplified in their fullest extent the great.
benefits resulting from a system of unrestricted commerce—be
would ask his constituents whether any circumstance had con-
tributed more to that result, or had assisted more to the growth
of that port, titan these concessions ? He would ask whether
it
was not owing to this very trade with Ireland that that very
port, the ruin of which was pretended to be seen in the dawn of
these measures,. had attained its present greatness ?—(llear,
hear, hear !)—He feared he was entering at too great a length

benefit.
On the question that 1,2871. 9s. 6d. be granted to John
Walker, Esq. Superintendent of the Winkel Establishment in
Ilerbiee —bills drawn by him on account of the expences of that
Establishment—
Mr. HUME felt it necessary to make a few observations on
that item. Some impatience being manifested by the House,
the Hon. Member said, though it might not at first sight appear
important, still that in it was involved the principle of employ-
ing the free labour of slaves. At present there were three or
four thousand slaves employed as free labourers, and this was
done at the instance of Hon. Members who were continually
urging and calling on Government to make the experiment.—
It turned out, however, that the slaves did not pay by their
labour foe their support, but were a continual incumbrance on
this country. Five years ago he had called the attention of
Government to that circumstance, and still in 1825 he found the
same cause of complaint. He begged particularly to call the
attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer now to,it, as he
feared the Right Hon. Gentleman, from his great press of busi-
ness, had not time to look narrowly into every thing. If he
paid more attention to these matters, he would not, as then,
place all at the disposal of the Colonial Department. The lion.
Gentleman, after some further remarks, submitted to the House
whether it would not be better for the country to manumit the
saves altogether than have them as they then were—a total
loss to the community. It was unfair for Government to pay
private individuals, West India proprietors for instance, after
the example they were themselves affording. When they
tailed on these gentlemen lie would tell them to look at home.
• They can have no excuse for meddling with public property
_IA, the time they were talking of an infringement on private
'property.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the cir-
cumstances connected with the question were rather peculiar.
Berbice was originally a Dutch settlement; the slaves belong-
ed to the Government, and were transferred to the English Go-
vernment on the taking of that place. A new system of man-
. weenient was proposed to be adopted with regard to his Majes-
ty's slaves, which it was supposed might prove an useful ex-
a;nPle to other parts of the British dominions. They were
placed- under the controul of Commissioners, who, he had no
doubt, were good individuals ; be made no doubt but they
possessed considerable zeal, but were, like many honest indi- I
victuals, considerably defrauded. The slaves again came into
the hands of Government. It was certainly seen the establish-
Ment did not pay its own expence, but that could be no reason
for manumitting them, unless it could be shewn that their
manumission would relieve the country from the weight of
their support ; for surely they could not refuse 'to them sup-
port if they were unable to provide it for themselves e for his
part, he rather thought their manumissions would prove a
hoanty to idleness; it would induce them not to v:ork, but rest
solely on the Government for support. The Right Honoura-
ble Gentleman went on to say that however unsuccessful the
attempt had been; still the object in view and the motive, were
nextt in niakin:e the experiment. The House must see the
dsneeerous consequences of any premature step in so delicate
an atfair as the present. The interests of every man having
property in slaves was intimately concerned, and therefore he
Alenrecated any hasty steps, at all events let time be affbrded
fora further trial.
Mr. PLOMER said a few words, which were inaudible in
tbe
Mr. « . SMITH denied that all the slaves, for whose sup-
port the present demand was made, were all able to work, as
a great proportion of them were helpless children. The Hon.
Gentleman concluded by saying, that the clearest inference
. that could be drawn from the .whole matter respecting the
Cemraissioners was, that all who wished to have their pro-
perty well managed should go over and take care of it them-

selves.
Mr. W. HORTON deprecated the continual system of at-
tic:l.: made by the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) in his depart-
ment. With regard to the manumission of the slaves, he
thought no measure more likely to endanger the West Indian
interest than letting loose the Government slaves.
After a few Words from Mr. W. S...tirrn and Mr. HUME,
in explanation, the vote was agreed to.
The next item was the sum of 7,3811. 7s. 10d. to J. W.
Imah, Esq., Chief Bailiff of the Tower of London, to defray
the expences of his office for the year 1g25.
Mr. HUME objected to it. There were, he contended, fees
paid to the officer more than equivalent to his trouble. These ,
fees were always, after the good old practice, doubled by every
succeeding officer. At present the fees received from persons
going 'to see the lions, as it was called, exceeded 3,0001.. or
4,0001. a year.
Mr. II ERRIES said a few words in explanation, after which
the vote was' agreed to.
IRISH ESTIMATES.
Mr. GOULBURN moved an estimate, the exact nature of
which we did not understand.
Mr. HUME said there was one particular in it to which he
must object; it• was the salary to the Dublin Aldermen.—
(Hear I)—He saw no reason why the Aldermen of Dublin
should he paid any more than those of London. He begged
the Right Honourable Gentleman to postpone the item alto-
gether to some future night, as lie was unwilling then to detain
the House, and he felt it his duty not to let the vote go uncan-
v ass ell .
Mr. GOULBURN replied, that the ehargefor the Aldermen
was in accordance with an Act of Parliament.
Mr. HUME thought that no reason for not objecting to it,
with a view to an alteration in the plan.
The consideration of the vote was then postponed.
EXCHEQUER BILLS.
•On the motion of Mr. HERRIES, a sum of 820,000/. was
voted to defray the interest on Exchequer Bills.
The House then yesumed, and the Report was ordered to be
brought up on Wednesday next.
COLONIAL TRADE.
The House resolved into a-Committee of the whole House to
take into consideration the resolutions respecting colonial trade,
and for affording increased facilities to our commerce and navi-
gation, of which Mr. Ii USKISSON had given notice.—He pro-
ceeded to say, that although the resolution which he intended
proposing was entirely in accordance with his Majesty's Speech
from the Throne, and although it was strictly in accordance
with the exrressed and recbrded opinions of the House, in re,

into theae matters—(hear, lame) ; —but he felt himself labouring
under very great dieadvirmage when attempting to exemplify
the benefits resulting from the principles of free trade, by the
state of Ireland; fqr, at the time this policy was adopted
towards that country, and since, there have been many circum-
stances calculated to- retard the great benefits which would
otherwise have resulted to that kingdom—the civil discord
which unhappily existed in that country—the late protracted
war, that had so deeply involved this country and the whole of
Europe in things uncongenial to the repose of commercial pur-
suits—all these circumstances have tended to lessen the
good which would have otherwise been felt by Ireland
from a system of free trade ; and yet, under all these
disadvantages it had derived a most material benefit, and
without those measures must- have remained in a state of ex-
treme distress. He would no turn from Ireland, and look at
those provinces which not more than forty years ago formed part
of the colonial territories of this country. He would refrain en-
tering upon the circumstances which led to the separation of
those parts from the Mother Country. He was sure a relation
of them would not recel any feeling either of glory or of pride.
But although these circumstances might lead to reflections not
irrelevent to the colonial questions, yet apart from that he would
ask this Committee whether there were any Gentleman who
really thought that that separation had been attended with any
disadvantage to our interests ? If there were Gentlemen who
considered the people of this country to have been sufferers
from that event, he would ask them to reflect on the import-
ance of preserving those colonies whose commerce formed part
of our own, whose marine formed part of our own, and whose
people were an integral- part of this country. He would
ask whether it was not proper to endeavour to give them
the benefit of a free trade, and to - increase their strength by
uniting them in one common interest, and retaining a firm
connexion between them and the British Crown ? Seeing
then in what a united state we now were in point of navigation
and commerce ; looking at the interests of the other colonies he-
longing to this empire ; looking to the commerce which ere long
cri
must shew itself on the seas by those newly created States whose
independence we have recognize .; and looking to the interests
of England as a maritime and co ' mercial power, he trusted he
should not be considered 'as harbouring any feeling unfriendly
to other States if he were to consider by what fair means the
protection of that navigation and the increase of that commerce
• might be effected and secured from other countries. From all
. that he had observed, and from all the experience which he had
• had, he had come to this conclusion, that a system of exclusion
and monopoly tended to impede and, cramp the prosperity of
the colony ; and he considered it to be a.legitimate inference
from that principle, that any thing that tended to the prejudice
of the colony must be prejudicial to the parent State; for that
which.ehnproved the colony was advantageous to the parent
State. Begging of the Committee to bear in mind the ge-
neral inference which lie had felt himself bound to draw
fom the premixes before him, he would now proceed to state
L, what was Our'present system with regard to those colonies, and
, how much further he wished the Committee to go. By the Acts
of the 3d and 4th of his present Majesty, we had admitted the
United States to trade with our colonies with only one or two
restrictions, namely, that the article of commerce should be the
production of the country so trading, and the ships national
ships. By these Acts the intercourse was limited between
those countries By another Act we have adMitted a direct
intercourse between the colonies and the. whole continent of
Europe, without any other restriction or limitation except that
of carrying on the trade in British shipping ; but at the same
time it would he seen not confining the trade to this country.
The House would perceive, that in point of fact, when he con-
ceded to America the trade with our colonies, it was with the
United States, because the other States of America had no ship-
ping; well it might have thought, therefore, that this would have
been received by them as an indulgence ; for they had offered us
nothing in return; no reciprocity of interest was at all made the
basis of these concessions; it was therefore with no little surprise
that after this indulgence we found the United States pass
, a law that the shipping of British merchants trading with the
United States should be subject to certain impositions and re-
strictions, until this country should concede to their shipping a
like freedom to our colonies, or any other country. These latter
words were particularly remarkable, applying, as they did, to
every part of the world except this kingdom. This was really
putting the matter upon a principle that had never been acted
upon by any country before—that of saying that this country had
no right to say that our own ship s should trade with our colonies
in preference to those of other nations. When the information
of these enactments on the part of the American Congress reach-
ed this country, we had but one of two courses to take—either
to forbid the intercourse of the United States with our colonies
altogether, or by laying like duties upon American shipping.
going into those colonies. But wishing to take the most mode-
rate course, and undeistanding that the United States had a
l
desire to eliect a negociation, it was determined to propose a
more comprehensive measure, and such as he was going to sub-
mit to the Committee. If the result should be that we placed
the United States upon the same principles as all other coun-
tries, and gave them the like privileges with the rest of the
world, they could not have any reasonable ground of complaint
and if after all they would not consent to this equitable ar-
rangement he then thought and hoped that the West India
Colonies would be able to do very well without their trade; a
circunis:ance however, which lie should be very sorry to see
resorted to. But he hoped he might he allowed to ask
this question, that, when America adopted this course,
thinking perhaps that we could not avoid acquiescing in
their extravagant and unreasonable request, he would ask
whether we were justified in holding from other Powers those
privileges we had so freely granted to the United States ? Were
we inure jealous of the ships of Europe trading with our
colonies than with theirs ? Were we more jealous of those of
Sweden, Ii amblr/eh, or any other ships of Germany, than of the
ships of America : He thought not. lie thought that, looking
at the interests of the colonies, and also of this country, we
ought to encourage the intercourse between the ports of Europe
and the It Indies ; and that we had as good a claim upon
hislatitudeoios
judgment
Ile ci
oughtg mase n
the trade of Europe as any part of the world whatever. He
should therefore think there could be no objection to grant to
their shipping the benefits of trade, with those colonies at least,
ttotowoetghoeorfuugrittietor.. countries. But lie owned it
tswot
state
tst
eh
hise
that
sn'7inine e
sltia eh
establish
s ttree ptraerde tel
ot of
the colonies with the different parts of Europe upon the same
footing as was now carried on with Guernsey and Jersey,
subject to certain prohibitions suggested by the nature of
things; such as fire-arms in case of war, and also as to certain
staple commodities of the colonies. Subject to these prohibitions,
he thought we ought to admit free shipping with all our colo-
nies to all Europe tinder the same regulations as had been re-
quired.from the United States, namely, that the cargo should
belong entirely to the country carrying on the commerce, and
that the ship should be a national ship. The result of adopt-
ing this course would be this—that retaining to ourselves all the
commerce between colony and colony, which would, in short,
be reserving what might be called the coasting trade, which
was the course he believed adopted by all other countries in re-
gard to their colonies, we should be giving a right of free inter-
course between those colonies and the rest of the world. Of
course it would be necessary in order to effect this, greatly to
enlarge the list of articles to be subject to duties, and to in-
crease the duty on others. It would be necessary to impose
certain moderate protecting duties on those articles which formed
he staple of the different colonies, as it would be obvious that,
by allowing-a free trade with the colonies, many articles would
be brought that were the produce of those colonies, and therefore
it would be prudent to protege such. There weresome which now'
paid at the rate of 7 and 8 per cent. ad valorem ; he should pro-
pose to extend those duties to 20 and some to 30 per cent.
The imposition of these duties, however, in their detail,
must depend upon the. local legislature. The most that we
could do would be to suggest and adopt the principle;_ but
the Colonial Authorities must regulate the duties. Those
Houses, however, must see the propriety of adopting that
course which we should think proper to point out, and as
that would be with an evident view to their own interests, they
therefore could not have any jealousy of our interfering with
their privileges. Ile should also propose, with a view to the
protection of these colonies, to establish at some of the most
eligible of these ports certain warehouses, and to extend to
them the whole benefit of the warehouseing system, as at pre-
sent so usefully acted upon in this country, by allowing goods
from all parts of the world to be deposited, so that they might
at 'any time be resorted to for supply in case of need, and also
for the convenience of commerce with other nations. Ile
apprehended this would be found very beneficial to Spanish
America, where it might be expected a good market would be
found. It was therefore desirable that there should be certain
warehouse established in our colonies ; and lie was sure lie was
not making an erroneous or visionary statement as to thee arde.
minded the Committee how greatly the United States l
vantage to be derived from the adoption of them, when_
i
benefited by such warehouses being established at,, e
w Orleansad been
Committee, it
proposition which he wished to submit to the
?lid be dore
and at other parts. Having stated the general nature of the
appeared to him that the beneficial effects of it wot_
er.
They
greatly felt in the sugar colonies than in anyd h
al ente •.e
better teems, having a larger scope of commevroot
Ye thatrishe
would have a chance of disposing of their prO.nuctions upon
But he owned that this was not all thofdas
satemae.
it would
looked to and expected from this ch h
carignustaxen, into those
introduce, if he were not very
sugar colonies quite a new s ursuitsa. He conceived
tion of persons, of manners, and of p
system of things, a new descrip-
tion
than was now. acted
but also a 'different course of agriculture as those colonies were,
upon. It was possible that, situated .
they .
it not only possibly introduced a new description of commerce
equally serviceable.:; ant necessary.
other crops than sugar,
they might not produce many other things
in a climate so favourable for cultivation,
anti
yield
besides that one commodity; he was
He knew not why not aware,pf any obstacle

to their growing indigo ; nor did he know why a great many feeling that no nation could gain by impoverishing another, but
other articles might not gradually find their way into those that, on the contrary, their wealth was the certain source of
colonies. He trusted too from this change of system that we wealth to those brought into contact with them. With re-
might hope to see a much larger proportion of whites—(Hear, spent to the measures to be adopted with regard to
hear !)—inhabit them than at present, and he was that if North America, he thought they were not only to be
such were the case we should have done much to add to the praised for sound policy, but to be considered as tending
security of those colonies.—(Hear, hear !)—lf he were asked to self-preservation ;it being, he thought, obvious that it ..
to be more particular in stating in what way these benefits would be impossible to hold that country but by retaining and
were to take effect, he would frankly own that he could not deserving their affections. The introduction of three or four
state. But neither was it in the power of any one the most thousand hogsheads of sugar from the Mauritius he thought
extensively inforthed on East India affairs, and of the inte- ought to excite very little alarm; but even if the quantity was
rests of commerce with that continent, to say, in the year much greater and the effect more powerful upon the market, he
1813, how the relaxation of the East India Company would could not allow that a colony, now as much our ovrn as
benefit the commerce of this country and of India. It was Jamaica or any other West India island, should not, taking
stated, that benefits would arise from that measure, but it our manufactures in return for its produce, be entitled to equal
was not known how these benefits were to result. But be- advantages. A great deal too much importance, too, had been
nefits had accrued both to India and. to this country from the attached to the introduction of East India sugars. The fart
restriction of that monopoly ; and he was certain that whatever was, that the Continent was not supplied with sugar io any
tended to a free circulation of capital and an unrestrained scope extent from the East. Brazil, Haeannah, and our own colonies,
for commercial competition, it must eventually operate to the furnished at least three parts of it; and he thought that those
benefit of the countries by whom that competition and corn- who argued for the special protection of East India sugar, even
merce is carried on. He had not the least doubt that the West if it was possible for it to furnish the quantity required, that
Indies would add a further proof to those of Ireland and the they might starve the planter into the humane treatment of
other places which had exemplified what he considered to be a his slaves had reached the highest pitch of absurdity. The
great political and commercial principle, and which was in- Honourable Gentleman then made some observations upon
finitely more advantageous to States than the strictest mono- the impolicy of having increased the protecting price of
poly, established under the idea that the principles of exclu- our own Corn Laws from 60s. to 705., and argued that although
sion worked for the benefit of the particular State which crest- he would not deprive any class of men suddenly of that sups
ed it. If this system of free trade were considered of such port which they had for some time been enjoying under the
importance to these Colonies, which were but as mere sugar sanction of Parliament, still lie thought the law might be ad-
gardens to this country, in how much greater a degree would vantageously modified; and he was confident that when they'
this change of system be beneficial to the Colonies of North took into consideration the cost of carriage and freight, the.
America ? There the whole population was free, and the landed interest would not suffer any injurious competition from•
people considered that whatever trade they did was for Canada corn, and that the protecting duty of ss. would be
their own benefit and support. Under this change of sys- found fully sufficient. The river St. Lawrence was, he doubt-
tem, it was impossible, therefore, not to conceive a very ed not, destined to be the outlet of one of the greatest grain
great benefit to result to those colonies, He was not overstat- countries upon earth : hut from the expence attendant upon its
ing the present population of North America, when he men- shipment all apprehensions were groundless with respect to.
tioned it at one million of souls.. With all those local and competition in the English market. Some arrangement was,
natural advantages which they possessed—their rivers; their however necessary between Lower and Upper Canada. As the ,
productions, and their fisheries—it was impossible, even if we one was placed above the Lakes, it necessarily followed that it.
gave them no other boon, that they should feel in the liberal was supplied from the other ; and is had long been a complaint
treatment of this country a desire to connect themselves with I that Lower Canada had it in its power to lay what duties it
any other country, or a wish to shake off their connexion with I pleased upon the goods going to the tipper. A Bill had been
us. He would therefore say, that his change of system would introduced to unite these countries, and put an end to their con-
not only tend to the benefit of these colonies in a commercial tention, and he certainly thought some such measure essen-
point of view, but would also tend to secure a perpetual connec- tially necessary to their future prosperity.
don between them and the Mother Country. Without grant- Sir F. BURDETT thought that there was a great deal of
ing these boons to others, he was going to say,—but these benefits unnecessary apprehension of public opi lion displayed upon this
to outselves, lie ought rather to call their—those Colonies could occasion. Public, opinion, they would find, was with them to
not maintain a faircompetition with the United States. At this mo- a greater extent than they imagined. It would be found that
ment one of the greatestsources of trade belonging to Nova Scotia unfeigned gratification would pervade all classes on learning
was their fishery. Their rivals were in the neighbouring pro- the nature of the alterations, and that the Right Hon. Gentle-
vinees belonging to the United States. Supposing they took their man might go with the approbation of the public to the full
cargoes to New York, they then were upon equal terms. But extent of his own conceptions in giving the Colonies the free use
neither at the Brazils, nor up the Mediterranean, were they, of their capitol, and conferring upon the negroes the power to
as the law now stood, at all upon an "equality ; and if the Nova use their own industry, and carry on their own manufactures in•
Scotian went up the Baltic, lie could not exchange his cargo whatever way may prove beneficial to them. Every body knew
for the produce of those countries. This gave an effectual , that the prohibition under which the Colonies laboured, of being
premium and bounty to the fishery of the United States, and I obliged to send all their raw sugars to us without the power of
by this we lost the benefit of the trade of Nova Scotia. This I refining any themselves, has a very oppressive grievance, and he
would serve to exemplify the present defective system. Hay- I thought its abolition,while it conferred a boon upon them, would
ing now stated all his views of the general principles, the de- Ibe of great benefit to ourselves. It had been thought that some'
tails he would not trouble the Committee with, but proceed i objection would be offered to the bringing of corn from Canada
to one or two alterations which, in the course of the present I He. wished Hon. Gentlemen to understand that the landed in-
Session, he should propose to make. • The Committee was ; terest could have no objection to any regulation that they de-
aware that the sugar of the Mauritius was paying a duty of 10s. ; sired, no other advantages than what resulted front the Wm-
more than from any other colony. Last year he had submit- I 'nand of the home market; they had become more enlightened
ted a resolution to reduce, but it had been opposed. But, I upon these subjects, and knew that no assistance was to be
upon every principle of justice and equity, he did think that I derived from regulations respecting the price of corn or any'
when we were going to place all the other colonies upon one I other bolstered up scheme of laws. They had learnt by expe-
footing, we coud not refuse to put the Mauritius in the same • rience that other means were more advantageous than prohibi-
situation with the rest ; and therefore, although it was not in bons or restrictions, and that no taxes should be imposed on
his Resolutions of to-night, it was in consideration to submit to ; trade but what might be absolutely necessary for the sake of
the House an equality of duties on the sugar of the Mauritius I revenue.—(Hear; hear!)—The system he now saw about to be
and the West India Islands. The other alteration was with re- pursued was one calculated to advance this country to a pros-
gard to Canada. That certainly was not a sugar colony, but perity which it.had never yet known, and the extent of which
he conceived its staple was as important to be protected as any it was almost difficult for the mind of man to conceive. lie
other : that staple was its corn. This was an article not pro- would not say any more at present. What he had principallY
hibited, it was true, but owing to the high duties it was in ef- risen for was, to give his support to the principle, and to assure
I
feet so. He conceived that there could he no ground for appre- the House that the public mind was become too enlightened
hension that the admission of the Canadian corn into this coon- I for any fear from the opposition of narrow-minded prejudice.
try at all times would at all affect the agricultural interests. He I Mr. BRIGHT felt satisfied that the condition of the negro
thought he might state the whole importation from Canada did population would be much improved by the Right Hon. Gei
not amount to 50,000 quarters yearly. The disadvantage which I tleman's propositions. He wished to know what were the aro-
Canada was now placed under was, that they not when our ; des which he had mentioned as to be prohibited in a particular
ports were shut or opened, depending as it did upon a fraction way.
of a penny. He was sure that at a very moderate duty, a free ; Mr. HUSKISSON said the articles to be prohibited froth
admission might be allowed at all times without prejudice to any ; the Havannah were rum, sugar, molasses, coffee, and cocoa.
interest whateVer in the country. What with the 12s. or I4s. I Mr. HUME took the opportunity to ask what were the Right.
freightage, and nseduty,and the very limited supply, this country Honourable Gentleman's intentions with respect to St. Don%..
had nothing to anprehend even by the most jealous and nar- go, or, if it was not determined to send some autnonsso 1 „
rowed principle that could exist. The Hon. Member for Co- son to manage our commercial relations in that countrYs;_
ventry had called the attention of the House to the large fees country established in peace and quietness, and rapi
paid on the shipping at the colonies. They were most certainly creasing in prosperity. With respect to Canada, too, as
a burthen on the shipping of this country, and, when the colon- intended to confer so many advantages unon its bade, lie touos.
--
vies came to act upon the principles of free trade, would be felt ed this country might receive some from it, and be freed fr
to be a great inconvenience ; it was therefore determined, that, that Timber Act which compelled us to pay large sums I°`
with this alteration of system, these fees should be reduced i an inferior article.
altogether, and that the officers should be paid out of the trade I Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that the Hon. Gentleman,
of the colony, which he believed was the proper fund. Many Member for Taunton (Mr. Baring), had gone out of his way.lif
of the officers now employed would not, under the new system censuring those who had taken a different view of coloniari_
he wanted at all, but would be altogether in the way. He; policy than he had done. To him (Dr. Lushington) there
should therefore propose their discharge, and that a compensa- did not appear to be any reason why the same immunitt.e:s
tion should be made to them. This alteration would not only I should not be granted, and the same, system extended to To
add much to the facility of trade with the colonies, but afford a East as to the West Indies, and this point he might arg
greater chance for a more successful competition.- He believed I not only as a question of political economy, but of moral Or.,
he had now stated to the Committee the whole of the,alterations tice ; when lie would ask for as large a free trade for one c01.h4
he intended to bring under their attention at that time ; but as another. One great cause of the discontent of the West In s,.
on Friday next he should be prepared to lay before them the had not been that night hinted at. It was that the West IO
other parts of the future commercial system. lie should now Proprietors were a set of absentees. who were cultivating the;
move a Resolution, " That it is the opinion of this Committee estates only to enjoy the produce here, and who engaged age°.„
that the Acts of the 3d and 4th of his present Majesty, regu- by large bribes to reside there with no other feeling thoi,A,
lating the trade with. his Majesty's possessions in North Ame- drain as much from those estates as they by possibility etnoiii,
rice, should be amended, and also the Acts relative to the and caring nothing for the way in which they left them. 4
Ire.,
warehousing of goods." Right Hon. Gentleman thought to satisfy the West India V..,
Mr. C. R. ELLIS, while he congratulated the House upon prietors, he would find himself mistaken in his calculationso*,
the wise and enlightened system of policy which the Right Hon. There would be no end to the boons they would ask or the
President of the Board of Trade had declared it his intention cessions they would expect. With respect to the distiocurne
to adopt, trusted that as the subject was of no common interest made between the East and West Indies, he would obse%,
they would favour him with their attention while lie made a that the House was now about to give a boon to the West Int"ceo
few observatioils. With regard to the introduction of sugar in which other Colonies were included : those Colonies had
from the Mauritius under the 'same duties as the other islands, always tardy in acknowledging the authority of Parliament 7ity
he confessed he had heard the Right Hon. Gentleman's inten- but he hoped that notwithstanding this fact their anirOsdol
tion with sonic surprise, and the more so as the same measure would subside, and that when they saw that a similar spiritoo,
had been introduced last year, and afterwards abandoned. He not actuate that House, they would be satisfied of its intent].
would not say any more, however, at present, than that he to support them.
hoped the Bight Hon. Gentleman would have the goodness to Mr. GORDON said that he fully approved of the meas°roe's
peruse the petition from the island of Mauritius before he finally which had been proposed, and he would not thwart their (lea.
determined upon that change. The restrictions proposed to tion in the House or elsewhere. It was unfair in the 1101!°flas
be removed from the trade of the West Indies, and which now able Member (Dr. Lushington) to object to him and his frireet
pressed more severely upon them than any other, had not been for opposing the measures which were extended to the Ycio.
attended with such injurious effects when first introduced. At Indies. It was easy for that lion. Member, who-was ac
to
that time the exclusion from all foreign and continental trade toured to public speaking in' courts of law and other place9W•
had been compensated by the entire supply of the home market ; deal forth public insinuations against any individual wholi`tiy
and as long as the supply did not greatly exceed the demand, its fered with him in opinion ; but he (Mr. Gordon) indigrigeree
effects were not felt ; but when it became a principle of this repelled these insinuations, and declared himself entirely h
country to extend her colonial possession by engrossing those from them.—(Hear !)
of all other nations producing a supply of more than one-third. Mr. GRANT said that the West India planters were o,ro
of the quantity required, it becanie obvious that a system lumniated body of men. Their object was to derive area7,i(
which glutted the home market, and affbrded no outlet unless able remuneration from their establishments, and to b ,700.
under the enormous expellee of a double voyage, could not be every care and attention on the negro population. The P
any hinger maintained. But while he thought sonic change ab- Member (Dr. Lushington) .said, that the proprietors wereniel
he was quite sure that one so extensive. as tisfied with concessions; and he said this at a period when
st
ho leupt er leys
ennetc
would not be attended with so much advantage as supplicated a measure of relief, and made out as strong goIC
was anticipated, when the present Chancellor of the Exchequer as was ever presented to a British Minister. If privileges, oot
had,in his capacity of President of the Board of Trade,introduced not granted to the West India interest, the planters colli"lay,
a Bill for encouraging a more direct trade with the Continent. compete with the sugars from the East ; and, conseq.ael
British merchants had not engaged in that trade with so much the cultivation of sugar in the West would drop off. tiler
eagerness as was anticipated. The planters had found it diffi. Mr. TRANT made a few observations, which were altoge
cult to transfer the trade from its old-established channels, and inaudible in the gallery. • ing
he believed that scarcely a single British ship had carried pro. Mr. EVANS protested against the principle of giv
duce in that way to the Continent. He earnestly hoped, how- preference to the labour of' slaves to that of freemen.
oesolo'
ever, that the enterprise and spirit of British commerce would After a few words from Sir J. WROTTESLEY, the --
ltiheadtirheecatvedy taoutrphiisustriavdhei,ehantadthhuostfrheeeenthefohrommerelymarrektneotvfarohilne dons were put and carried.
SALARIES TO POLICE MAGISTRATES.„ose
with heavy double charges. His Right Honourable Friend Mr. Secretary. PEEL rose to call the attention of the P
had said that this principle of reciprocity was Only to he ap- to the salaries of the Police Magistrates of the 1.1e,tr.°11,106'
plied to those countries which might be willing to adopt When he adverted to the situation of these indsvai pee
it on an equally liberal scale to us. Looking at what had he hoped that an addition to their annual all?" hove
occurred with regard to the treaty with Denmark, he doubted would not be considered unnecessary. He held in his, WI
whether his Right Honourable Friend would not find a great papers, showing the great increase of business whicile 0
impediment to the liberality of his policy in the narrow views of' late years taken place, not only in consequeo;.'l,
of other nations. But he would not choose this occasion to the multiplication of Acts of Parliament, but also of t'erisr,,
'mention those drawbacks which might suggest themselves ; he crease of population. These circumstances alone,
would rather take occasion to look at the fairest side of a nmea- an augmentation of salary, but it rested on other grts • I
00/. ' e.
sure which lie had heard with f •
among its other advantages, unfeigned satisfaction, The When the Police Magistracy were appointed, it was 4 olac
opening of the trade of the Colonies to all the world, would, was now 6001.; and when the first appointments took rojelt
;Loth 001
he trusted increase the population it was the practice to select persons for the office wll°,l
of those Islands by encouraging merchants to settle in them, utterly incompetent to discharge the duties. He follow
had been
tgAchhoßt
miiNeoreGnt or. c
a,vr;eeewnr
ade d with so much
stimulating thereby the industry of the black populationeen- in the appointments made for the police offices, includ'eloer',
suring the peace and security of the inhabitants, and guarding Magistrates, only three barristers were among the Clqo
against any danger from that projected emancipation which there was a Major in in time army, a starch-maker, three, peh
apprehension. He gymen, a Glasgow trader, and several other unqualifieo "Li
could assure his Right Hon Friend, not to detain the House sons. 'No limitation was fixed by law as to the previ°usesilieo
any longer, that much as his paternal affection might be ex- cation of these Magistrates ; but a limitation was prceso
cited by the measures he had proposed, it did not exceed what by the Secretaries of State. Neither he nor his preoc
lie (Mr. Ellis) felt himself : and he was confident that the name had ever appointed a Magistrate who was not a b3rtro V„ef
to wouldw which
lie descendhadnstehriirttyh.connected of three years standing ; and he thought the prapticwebetielo
of
srt.hiljaaitogipveo a desirable one. It was necessary to consider oishoi
M
and to the Colonies.
was confident that this spirit of commercial 6001. a year was a sufficient compensation to induce. 1/11 notli•e
arrangement could flat but be productive of good to the country to give up the embluments of private practice. Tifece, '
He could not say that there were not of the Magistracy required their constant otenda° 6ecy
many points in the Right lion. Gentleman's statements which hoped it was no unreasonable proposition that die ipioer,!;",
he in common with the House did not exactly understand ; but tary of State should be empowered to give to es.o isl
he thought it fair that they should wait for the printing of the trate a salary of 8001. It had been the practice tO r" arty
Bills and Resolutions before they expressed their opinions. One various motives of remuneration in London ; and 'Oen, '
thing lie was happy to see—it acknowledged as the general was made to the conduct of the,. country gentle:l;l?,-