The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-27 00:00:00

I may possibly lay the foundation—not for immediate
improvement—that I never contemplated--but the foun-
dation ultimately of a better order of things.—(Herr,
hear.) After careful reflection I retain my deliberate
c‘
;nvietion
that all your other measures, the rate in aid,
the alteration of the poor-laws, the advance of money for
railways, will all do posi•ively nothing, unless you can
remedy that which I believe to be the great social evil of
Ireland—the difficulty of effecting the transfer of land to
the possession of those who are competent to discharge
those duties which the possession of land involves.
When I spoke of the settlementof Ulster I knew perfectly
well the construction that would be placed upon the re-
ference. I knew perfectly well there would be persons
who would say that I was proposing in the 19th cen-
tury that which might have been tolerable in the 17th.
I knew it would be asked, " What do he propose to
do? Does he propose to drive the Roman Catholicin-
habitants to Connaught or to hell?" Not to Connaught,
certainly, for that is the district with which I proposed
to d i
deal; and as to the other, it is the last I should n-
tend.—(Hear.) I :aid that I was aware that it was a
fatal blot upon the plan of James I.; that it made reli-
gious distinctions—that it gave religious preferences—
that it desired to expel the Roman Catholic inhabitants
for the purpose of introducing others upon whose alle-
giance there was a greater claim. I said this for the
purpose of preventing the possibility of my being sub-
jected to the charge which after three weeks has been
preferred; that it was my object to expel the Roman
Catholics. I have no such object.—(Cheers.) What
I wished was, by creating a demand fur labour, to
give the Roman Catholic peasent an opportunity of
maintaining himself in independence, My object was
to secure to the Roman Catholic labourer, if
possible, ed„ or perhaps Is. a day—for that must be the
foundation for all improvement in Ireland.—(Hear,
hear.) I never believed the doctrine by which some
have attempted to relieve themselves of the obligations
belonging to them, that there is any inherent inability
or indisposition to work on the part of the Irish labourer.
—(lls:et-, hear.) I ask any English gentleman, who has
met an Irish labourer on the road, and has entered into
conversation with him, as I make a habit of doing when-
ever I meet one, whether he has not left him with an
admiration of his acuteness and his natural politeness,
and with an impression that nature never intended him
fur a serf?—(Loud cheers.) It is sometimes supposed
here, that the Irish peasants are a turbulent class of
men, whom no law can restrain, and no cultivation im-
prove; hut I ask those who have seen them in the coun-
ties of England, whether it is possible to see men more
obedient to the law, more patient and forbearing under
much provocation, more industrious, more desirous to
remit small sums to their friends out of the proceeds of
their severe labour, for the purpose of paying their rents
or keeping their families out of the poor-house? I
therefore repudiate the doctrine that there is some inhe-
rent slothfulness or inactivity or want of enterprise in
the Irish peasantry. At the moment when the Lion.
Member (Mr. Grattan) was charging me with a desire
to expel the Irish landlords and introduce English ones,
I was engaged in reading a letter I had received—one
of many hundreds I am receiving every day—which
gives an account of an English company, their applica-
tion of capital to Irish property, and the consequences
of it. It is an account of the proceedings of the Dra-
per's Company, who are entitled to a large estate in Ire-
land under the settlement of James The Drapers'
Company proceeded for a long time in giving a lease
constantly:renewable to a single family. In 1817, how
ever, the lease fell out and the company refused to renew
it to the Rowley family, the lessees. This company of
English merchants and tradesmen residing in London,
with no intimate knowledge of Ireland, but influenced
by the spirit of Englishmen, and by the sense of justice
of Englishmen, determined to make an inquiry about
their property. The state in which they found it is de-
scribed in the first report of a deputation which they
sent over to Ireland in 1817— :
" The bulk of the holdings would be inconsiderable
in point of quantity, even if entire, but when subdivided
are very small. There is a cabin and sometimes two on
each holding and subdivision of holding. These cabins
are mere mud huts, covered sometimes with straw, at
other times with reeds, or swards, and are but rarely
watetetight. The natural soil is the floor. Sometimes
there is a hole in the roof to serve for a chimney-, at
other times the door serves as the channel for the exit of
the smoke, and generally, but not universally, there is a
partition between that part which is devoted to the use
of the family and that part which is applied to the use of
the cow, the horse, the goat, or the pig.' And their
course of husbandry is thus described They grow
nothing but oats, potatoes, and flax, and the
course in which they follow each other seems
rather to be accidental than regular ; the same
piece of land is frequently sown two years suc-
cessively with oats. The small quantity of manure
which is made upon the farm is applied to the potato
crop; fellows are never made. The land is sometimes
said to be laid down in grass, but no grass seeds of any
sort are ever sown. None of the leases contain any
covenants or stipulations as to the course of crops or
cultivation of the land; in every respect every lessee is
as much at liberty thereon as if he was the.owner of the
fee. It would not be literally true to say that there is
not a hedge or a tree upon the estate, but there aro so
few that no advantage can be derived from them.' Such
was the condition of the Drapers' estate in 1817. The
company, however, were not discouraged. They went
to work with the zeal, energy, and perseverance, honesty
of intention, and singleness of purpose, the characteristic
qualities of the British merchant; and such has been the
success of their labours, that not a trace remains of the
condition of the estate as described in the above report.
Comfortable, neat, and substantial farmhouses and
cottages, with suitable offices, have been substi-
tuted for the smoky cabin*. The farms have been
enlarged and fenced, an improved system of
agriculture has been introduced, the subdivisions of
farms prohibited, leases have been made on the most
approved plan of English farm leases, with covenants for
making and maintaining improvements, and for enforcing
a proper rotation of crops, and these covenants have
been rigidly enforced. Wild and previously impenetra-
ble districts have been opened by judiciously formed
roads, extensiv,l pl intations of timber, as well as orna-
mental ttees, have been made, and are now in a flourish-
ing state. Money-more, the principal village on the
estate, has risen from a poor hamlet into a prosperous
town."

Did this company, however, proceed in a sectarian
spirit P Did these Protestants deeply attached, no
doubt, to their own religious views—neglect the fair
claims of those who differed from them? No.—

" A handsome church and Presbyterian meeting.
house have been built in it at the sole expense of the com-
pany, and liberal contributions made for the improve.
went of the Roman Catholic chapel, and an annual
salary is paid by the company to each minister of those
respective places of worship. There ha 3 been also built
in the town by the company an excellent and now much
frcqnentod hotel; and the trade in it has increased so
much as to require the establishment of a branch from
one of the Belfast banks."

The example thus set by the Drapers' Company has
been fAlowed, I believe, by the Fishmongers' and other
companies. .I confess that I look to great advannages
arising from the introduction of new capital and new
views into Ireland ; and my firm conviction is that the
relation of the Roman Catholic to the soil will be greatly
improved thereby. As I happened to be reading the
letter from which I have just read an extract to the
Elouse when the lion. Gentleman attributed to me those
views, with respect to the banishment of the Roman
Catholic population, I could not resist the temptation of
replying to the Hon. Gentleman and rectifying his mis-
corception. I trust I have now satisfied the House that
it would be my last object to injure the Roman Catho-
lics.—(Hear, hear.) As lam unwilling to prevent the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman (the Solicitor-General)
from statirg the views of the Government with respect
to the measure they contemplate, I shall not attempt to
notice any other misconceptions ; but I could not be
present and hear this misconception without removing
what, it justifiable, must have created, among the great
mass of the population of Ireland, a most unfavourable
and unjust impression.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HENRY GRATTAN said that the Right Hon.
Baronet was totally mistaken. He had made no such
charge as he seemed to imagine, but ho said he beHeved
that ultimately that would bo the effect if his proposi-
tions were carried out.

Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that he would take upon
himself to assure the Right Hen. Baronet that the opi-
nion of the people of Ireland generally was favourable
to the plan he had propounded, and that no improper
motives were attributed to him.

Mr. FLAHERTY said his constituents were highly
pleased with the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet, and
on their behalf he begged to thank him. He com-
plained bitterly of the do-nothing policy of the present
Government, and seeing no prospect of their introducing
any measures beneficial to Ireland, he had left their side
of the House altogether and taken his seat on the oppo-
site benches.—(A laugh.) Ho was, however, no party
man, but would support good measures from whatever
party they originated.
Mr. BRIGHT said there was no doubt this Govern-
ment and other Governments had been to blame for the
manner in which they had acted towards Ireland. They
bad adopted coercive instead of useful measures, but
still he thought that Irish Members were to blame
themselves, as they had not only never brought for-
ward any useful measure for Ireland, but were always
disagreeing amongst themselves as to what measures
were useful.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL submitted to the Rouse that
tuhiel
1, properandt
then to
coursee hear
rultdh
eb be
Solicitor-General
d ow him to bring in his
meantexplain
bring
it
nh e
provisions of the Bill which Government
ifnoriwrealradedw.i_th(rHeefearrence to the sale of encumbered estatesg
Sir H. W. BA.R.RheOaNr.)said that he rose to repudiate
the charge which had been made by the Hon. Member
for the Irish Mem-
bers.—(Hear, for Manchester (Mr. Brigh
bers.—(Hear, hear.) Wh-P the llon. Member talked
he (Sir W.
about divisions among the Irish
ni-
Ebenrgsiish Members
(Elear, hear.)
him (the Mi-
aßgarrereodn )
upon shouldglriekaet to p
Al, mbar the
He had only to look to the belowbeciniciehsu.°"?—
nisterial), were the Right Honou
Secretary for the Admiralty (Mr.ra
I'Vle-artl) and the
Noble Lord at the head of the Govrnjineent agreed on
the subject of the Irish Church and
clause?—(Loud cries of" Hear, hear.") appropriation
Looking to the
opposite side, 11:! would ask, did the lion. hl
Disraeli) and the Right lion. Baronet who
beside him (Sir Robert Peel), did thesegentlemen agree
upon the great question of tree trade which so
the country.—(Laughter, and cries of .. I/ agitated
autkliohrshwiNhleeom
ear, hear.")
It might suit newspaper scribblers to ring the cluing
about the divisions among the Irish Members, and the
topic he knew was a favourite one with gentlemen of
the Manchester school—(Bear, hear)—but he denied
cwniabse
rs
seated
that the Irish Members were more divided on public
questions, than was to be expected among public men
who were returned independently to that House. He
would tell the lion. Membes for Manchester, that there
was a
.great deal of self-sufficiency among the gentlemen
uf She Di
och001—(I "Ael ho
"Rear,