The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-11 00:00:00

P 1 FITIONS.

M. BRO MERTON presen:ed a petition from Sal•
ford ire f4vour 0. •tly Sn;)lce Prohibition Bill.
Mr. GROGAN presented a petition from Dublin in
favour of a 6,olitary Bill for Ireland.
L,qli DUDLEY b I UART presented a petition from
the nizs,ter tkvra of M6xylebone sgaitnit the Sale of
Bread Big.
DUR TI: N OF PARLIAMENT BILL.
Mr. T. D'E.V.NUOURT moved the second reading of
BA!.

LJr. S. ADAIIt weelil put it to the Right Hon. Gen-
tlemen whether he %%emit] persevere with this Bill at so
!ate a period en t les s- ssion, and under the very peculiar
eireutro Lexie attenning the introduction of the mea-
snie. Let sear he had opposed the motion of the Hon.
Gterlem to time Member for Montrose fir a reform of
Parliamenl, el, time ground that, considering the state
of the country, be did not think it would be ad•
viseable to Ellett any change in the constitution.
He confessed, however, from what had transpired since,
he thought the time had now arrived when further re-
forms were necessary. Considering that the Noble Lord
at the head of the Government bad conceded that there
should be a further extension of the suffrage, he could
not see what objection could be urged against the pin=
ciple of the Bill of the Right Hon. Gentleman for
shortening the duration of Parliaments. Although he
saw no prospect of the measure being carried thjss
session, he felt bound to give it his support.
The principle of the Bill was riot a new one, and id his
opinion
the Right Hon. Gentleman bad wisely left it to
thej House to fix the period to which the duration of
Parliament should be limited, and be trusted that in the
next session some measure would be proposed by them
to give effect to the long-wished for and anxious
expectations of the people for further reforms.
Should he not be able to proceed with the measure this
session to a successful issue, he trusted those of the
Government Members' who were favourable to gradual
reforms in the h ghlative institutions of the country,
ould give this subject their serious cote ideration, and
convince the unenfrarchised masses out of doors that
they were cot unmindful ot their claims to be represented
in tee Commons Hone. ot P.rli,ment.—(Hear, hear.)
:fie GEORGE GREY slid when his Hon. Friend
behind hint introduced this Bill, his Neb!e Friend at the
head of the Greverneneut we 11E at length into the views he
personally held and the Government entertained upon
this question, and as no answer was made to that
speech he thought there was un end to the matter.
se far as the ',res. nt session was concerned.--(Hear.)
It new, how,v.-r, seemed Lobe otherwise. iegard,
therefore, to the question half, he did not bi lieve ,has
any particular iii,colitr rte ex-sted in the eeutd,r, as to the
,torah tit of Purlittaitnt, nor could he brtng mussels
think that the House could be sciing prudeiiity if it
sanctioned chi, sic up: re ding id this Bit. Under tt
existing system of legi.latien many pleasures if great
public =penance ran tnreugh the, e use f uti si-ssions, and
it was therefore highly desirable that ell such measure s
should be revived and disposed of by .he swine
Members who had .first considered them. Line,
however, the duration of Parliament to three
ears, and such a mode of proceeding would be
absolutely impossible; at present public opinion and
pub is rep ling acted as a wholesome check upon the
Smdra ut H .1e Members; and as, from 1836 to 1841,
there were ne less than six Parliaments, the average
du, re ion of which dirt nut exceed two years end a bait;
ne thtioAht teure was no necessity for the Bill, and he
should, tioirrtote, move that it be read a second titue
the• d y s'x months.
Mr. M. Li IiSSON said the Right Hon. Baronet seemed
to teink that in censequence of the Noble Lord's speech
upon this querion not having been answered, the sub-
ject ought to be considered as disposed of, and it was,
thereture, unneessary for him to dwell at any length
upon it ; but 'he real answer to the Noble
Lord's speech was the division that followed it. Well,
Olen, nutwithstandiug the appeal that was made to the
gentlemen present a ben this Bill was first moved for
not to support it, there was a decided majority in favour
i's intreduetten, and having so decided it would be
rrett big th , Melee wimp disrespect if they were not to dis-
cuss its provisiene with fairness.—(Hear, hear.) And
he most be allowed to observe that these divisions were
not coke accident„ l.—(Hear, hear.) Tne majority ob-
tain: ti last year an favour of the Ballot was by no means
academia.l nor was the majority in favour of the motion
for introducing this Bill to shorten the duration of Par-
liaments. Some Honourable Members were reluctant
to vote against popular rights, and although
he would not go the length of saying they would,
if requested by the Government, coma down: and re-
cord thm it votes against these measures, he was quite
convinced that their absence was not always quite acci-
dental. Being left to themselves, they preferred rather
to go away than remain to vote against a measure for
extending popular rights, and these majorities ought not
to be treated as accidents which did not convey the feel-
ing of the House on matters of reform.—(Hear.) With
regard to the immediate question itself, he did think
that a shorter period of time for the duration of Parlia-
ments would act as a wholesome cheek upon the pro-
ceedings of Members of the House, and he thought
that shortening their duration was more necessary
now than it could have been at any former
time, for the House was now called upon to deal with
60,000,0001. taxation annually levied upon the people,
while the Government exercised a great amount of pa-
tronage in the management of Crown-lands and the dis•
posal of Church livings, which gave them easy means to
tamper with the votes of Members, and it therefore bee
earns more necessary now that there eLouli - be a more
repeated appeal to the constituencies, ilia Oder to esta-
blish a tn..re wholesome c enrol over Membars of Parlia-
meut.—(lieur, hear.) Let them consider for one mo-
ment what was the inducement now for Members to go
into boroughs ; and atter previous nursing there to
expend large sums of money in bribing the electors?
W by simply that after his return ho could set the elec-
tors at defiance `'or six years, and indulge in some of the
pickings hat droeped out of the Treasury. Now. if he
found that every two years he had to g.i before the elec-
t irs, it would not be worth his while to spend reentry in
nursing tne brought and bribing the voters, but under
the exi. ing law the mem.), he spent in that way
was lueked upon as a very good iriveetnat nt.
I; they w.-ret sloe. re in their desire to inirotitice treat;
provisions into the law fur the prevention ot bribery and
corruptiuu at election., they muse Wit reetin mut com-
parative fixity of t, nitre welch .Vlembers had in their
seats in that HouSe. It the &rattier of Parliatureit
was shortened, the conduct ot M inte-re weuld be
somewhat different when they presented themselves on
the hustings, and the unbecoming system of giving
pledges would be done away with.—(Hear, hear.) He
locked upon this subject as one of very great importance,
tni nothing that could be done with respect to the tran-
Ouse. or tee ballot would be of any real advantage so
ton.: as the duration ot Parliament was nvolonged, and
so lung as se. re i,xistrd in the hands of the Executive a
large amount of tu.ids, as well as patronage and places,
tor the purpose ut either directly or indirectly influeucing
tie conduct of Memb rs. If they repealed Septennial
Peiliem• Ws, th. y would at once go back to the Tri-
ennui Act, wheel stood ready made for them on the
Statute-bo, k - (Hear, hear)—there would be no going
into Cosamittee seed discussing clauses, and therefore
bit theught the propo;ition of his Hon. Friend was the
most tic uric that could be adopted at this period of the
session.—(hear, hear.) The question was not a corn-
plicnted one, but simply whether they should restore the
condom less ut the ceuntry, which was departed from,
net permanently, but simply because the reigning
family at the time was so unpopular that it was neces•
s try to prolong Parliament in order to secure their
tenure upon the throne. That reason, however, did not
now exist, and he saw nothing to prevent them at
once returniug to Triennial Parliaments. He hoped
tent his lionoure.ble Friend would persevere with the
measure, for he was sure that he would carry with him
the opinion ot the people out of Coors. He trusted that
the Honourable Gentlemen opposite would not treat it
as a rock ahead—that they would give no pledges to
adhere to the existing forms of Parliament; for depend
upon it, the question would come before them ere
long. He never felt more sure of anything in his
life than that that would be the case.—(Hear, hear.)
He would advise them not to raise the cry of " No sur-
render," which, with respect to the free-trade question,
had brought their party into its present conflicting state.
If the old Tory party should again resume power, as he
had no doubt would be the case, he would undertake to say
that this reform question would present itself in a very
formidable aspect. lie would caution them not to come
into power pledged to oppose all changes in the consti-
tution of Parliament, for if they did, some great quarrel
or split would happen in their party, which would lead,
perhaps, to the same scenes that were witnessed at the
time of the free-trade debates. In a progressiVe country
like England, it was impossible that such a question
could be considered irrevocably settled.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BERNAL said he was Surprised that his Right
Hon. Friend, with his ability, upright intention, and ex-
perience, should have adopted such a lino of argument.
He had stated as one reason for supporting the
Triennial Act, that Members of Parliament were not
angels of purity, and that e they pulled at the Treasury
b-nehes" for their own individual aggrandizement. lie
(Mr. Bernal) would now tell him openly and man-
fully that this was all humbug and delusion.
—(Loud Cheers.) He agreed that the system
Oh giving pledges on the hustings was di,igreceful,
but he thought the constituents tad an ebtiguti.,n on
their Ade, aid that they ought to look te the duties or a
Member of Parliement in a mere s-rises beet than they
old. But when he said he repudiated pledges, he begged
to say that ha leptedeted also the doctripe of •• speaking
to constituents."—(Hear: hear.) Ile bad no objection

st,urtvn !he reran of Parliament, but let it be ;ceuesl

vattied by v,,te b) ballot, anti by ot'ner reform reeasures,
wwell tvoulti purity- what wa3 called the Augean
Mr. HUME said that no our Cunid for a noittiell•
imagine that the pre:eta state of thy, eotott.u. [ley
one which would satisfy the eouotr.). lie fir one Lit.
.er taint d ex r. ate views on this übj et, tad wa, perky,
prepared to go turther then most lion. Members, be.
cause, probatly, he bad devoted more time and refits.
Lion to this butp.et than others had done. He was con.
vinced that, hull m.-astires w.re iteer Frosn,rcu,.
1,30' W:,:,b, never 10 eutoprotoi-e, hevc rto vivo up hi,

!AS 'S, but Lti Ziy, 1,4,4 SeVe re. [1:,..r
v,i t:tLi decl,redtlumselves tidvocates of progas-
tivu reivisa, i.h46 as far us he could see, they were jaQvy

standing still. But he must caution them, that he for:
one c.,uld not een:inue to support a Government'
which refused its couhtenuece to all kinds of reform''
a, the present tiovernieent appeared to They Mow;
tea go en one step tuwerds asures of retorm, bile they'
knew that many cf their warmest supporters were'
anxiously desirous. In the present state or the Hose'
ihe friends of tetorm were actually supporting a 04",
' reform government. There were millions of men in awl;
country who eoutributed to its support in a very great,
proportion, upon wham its strength depended, whose'
circumstances entitled teem to be brought within
p.ile of the constitution, but were refused
This dangerous proetecing might continue. too 'logo
He recollected, though many Members in that HolAs°'
might not, when Mr. Husktsson stood up in his place In'.
Parliament, and declared tbst he had heard arguments'
of such a nature, as obliged him to give his support t°'
the Bill for the extension of the suffrage to Birmingbann
and on the next morning he was obliged to leave the
Cabinet.---(Hear, hear.) Well, what followed in o'.
short time ? Why, a complete and total re'.
form. Such, too, was the course of things with-
regard to the corn law. He wilt the Noble Lord at the"
head of the Government to be a friend to reform, end'
also the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Hou'
Department, and he conjured her Majesty's;
Government to reflect, before they set their:
feces against. Reform, what might be the consequencex
He was, however, going to take an opposite course to'
that which he bad heretofore taken. Before the Reform:
13d1 he advocated tie propriety of returning to triennial
Parliaments; and, indeed, last session he. voted in sup-
port of a motion having that object in view, but having
taken the liberty of exercising his own eyes and-
ears he had come to ,the opinion, looking:
at the state the House had been brought to since the'
passing of the Reform Bill, that it would be impossible'
to conduct the public business properly if Parliaments•
were reduced to three years in duration. ludeed, those'
who advocated shorter Parliaments showed, in the in-,verse retio, their incapacity to govern.—(Laughter..
As far as his reading and experience had taught'
him, he considered that the greatest gift heaven`
had bestowed upon man was the power given'
of ruling. He deprecated the foolish and silly grounds,
upon which some of the best servants in that House bad`
lost their seats, and lamented the means and difficulty:
that had been experienced in returning them.—(Hear;
hear.) He was of the same opinion as the Hon. Gen-
tleman who had just sat down—that the franchise might
to be extended. He was quite decided upon that;
but he confessed he looked with exceeding suspicion
upon those who advocated the Charter—because 110
found that the advocates of the five points wore those
who represented the persons who were ready to make
that counter revolution in France, of which they had
heard so much, and also bad sympathised with them as
suffering martyrs. Indeed, he found that they symps'
thised wiih the disturbers of peace all over Europe;
He believed it would be impossible to have a House or
Lords and a hereditary Sovereign, if such principles
were to prevail, and the whole power of the Governmea
were reposed in that House alone.

Mr. lIUME denied it altogether, and challenged the
Hon. Gentleman to prove that he had ever used any
ext,ressioes of sympathy with the disturbers of the
peuee.
Mr. I)UUMMONI) said the Hon. Gentleman had said
all 'he world wa., advst,cm.4—let us ; we were once 81
the head isf thew, but now e e are at the bottom. France
way now the highest.
Mr. II U M E —That hai nothing to do with it.
Mr. 8111(1111` t xplained that the last person to,
whom the remark ‘. pulling at the Tret-ur}' •
could ho applied was his Honeurtsble Friend
the Member ler Rochester (Mr. Bernal). Never-
theleim, th. Goverziment po,te3sed much Church •
pa• reit ige, which was t qua( to money value, and he he' 0
lievtd that the Treasury exercised much more iefluencs,
over Minis'ers during Parlntmeuts-ot six t r seven years
duration thrtn they could it they were shorter. Direct
bribes might net be known, but Members were more
likely to attend to the wishes of their constitu-
ents if they appeared oftener on the bust'
ings. It was notorious that since the elec-
tion of the present Parliament greater deference
bad been paid to the popular will than during any
former period. In 1720, Burke, speaking of septennial
Parliaments, 'said, that annual Parliaments, which be
supported, prevented that corruption of the deputies of
the Minister which must result in Parliaments of longer
duration. There could be no doubt that the state
of things mentioned by Burke was in existence
at the present moment. His Honourable Colleague had
alluded to pledges. Many honourable men did not ar
prove of giving pledges; but hustings pledges were
merely the statement of opinions on certain measures: •
On the hustings he should not pledge himself
to vote this way upon this matter, and
another way as to that. A Member must, to do his duty
properly, be unshackled by pledges. To show the lin'
propriety of doing so, he must point to the instance`
they had had during the last three years of
Members voting directly in the teeth of the prin-
ciples they bad advocated.—(Protectionist cheers.)
Constituents should have a guarantee thattheir Members
would appear oftener before them and be informed of
their sentiments. The Member for Surrey general
acted so eccentrically that when he got up it was iters.
Bible to tell which way he intended to. vote. He was
both Democratic and Conservative, and says things
which, but for the good humour with which they wer°
said, would doubtless be hard hits.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

elfoot,