The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-25 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 24.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
CONSOLIDATED FUND APPROPRIATION
BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee.
RAILWAYS ABANDONMENT BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
ROYAL PAVILION (BRIGHTON) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE BILL.
This Bill, was read a third time and passed.
PILOTAGE BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
LEASEHOLD TENURE OF LANDS BILL

(IRELAND).
On the motion that the House go into Committee on
this Bill,
Mr. LAW moved that the House go into Committee
this day three months. He opposed it on the ground
that it would destroy many ancient and va-
luable charters granted to the Irish Society.
He had obtained the opinion of an eminent conveyancer
upon the effect of this Bill, and he had stated that no
clause could be inserted in the Bill effectually to protect
the interests of the Irish Society, and that their only
safety was in being exempted from the operation of the
Act. This was the first time he had bad an opportunity of
protesting against this confiscation Bill, and in doing so
he could not avoid expressing his surprise that it should
have been introduced at a period when Government were
calling upon English capitalists and the Corporation of
London to come forward and assist in the regeneration of
Ireland. The measure was neither just nor expedient, and
he hoped the House would help him to get rid of some of
its most objectionable provisions. However beneficial
the measure might be esteemed for some parties, he
thought it was a rather strong one to introduce in the
last week of the session, because it sought
wto
hichanhn
had
dl
never the
been benefits
in t e
rfe conferredred
with
or annulled,
by charters
but by the arbitrary power of the Star Chamber, and
the conditions of which the company or corporation bad,
up to the present moment, faithfully fulfilled. lie there-
fore moved, that the House should resolve itself into a
Commitee on this subject this day three months.
Mr. DICKSON seconded the amendment.
Mr. GRATTAN supported the amendment, on the
ground that he did not think a measure like this should
be brought on at the end of a session, when its merits
could not he fully considered.
Sir JOHN YOUNG said that the Learned Recorder
for the city of London had not advanced a single argu-
ment against the Bill, although he had made out a case
tor considering why the Irish Society should not be
exempted from its operation.
Sir R. FERGUSON contended that the Irish Society
were compelled to grant their tenants leases in perpe-
tuity, otherwise their estate would have been ruined;
but they increased the rents 36 per cent., and hampered
the tenants by various vexatious provisions. It was erro-
neous to say that no litigation had taken place between the

society and their tenants. The estate was formerly
rated at 2,5001., but it had been so improved that it was
now rated at 40,0001., and in fact the tenants were the
real landlords. He asked the Irish Society to guarantee
the perfecting of the leases into which they had entered.
He hoped they would reject the motiun.
Mr. NEWDEGATE moved the adjournment of the
debate on the ground that Alderman Thompson and
others interested in the matter were absent.
Mr. LAW said his motion had been on the paper
some time.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the Bill came
down from the House of Lords a long time ago, and it
had been already fully discussed; and though oppor-
tunities had occurred of his (the Solicitor-Gene-
ral) proceeding with the Bill he forbore to
do so during the absence of his Honourable
and Learned Friend the Recorder, who, he was
bound to say, had met the case in an open and straight-
forward manner. By an arrangement this day had
been fixed for the discussion of the amendment. He
implored the House to_ go into Committee on the Bill.
The city of London had no right to complain that they
had no opportunity of stating weir views on the Bill.
Mr. F. FRENCH replied that no one connected
officially with the Irish Society was present. He had
had opportunities of judging that the estate of the
society was well managed, and on account of the way
iu which they used their tenants they were entitled to
the utmost indulgence. If the rights of the society
were menaced a great blow would be given to the in-
vestment of English capital in Ireland.
Mr. MONSELL said the members of the Irish Society
could be heard during the future progress of the Bill;
therefore the motion was a most vexatious mode of de-
feating it. The people in the west of Ireland were deeply
interested in the passing of the Bill. Let the House
pronounce upon the merits of the Bill, and not defeat it
by a mere side-wind.
Mr. NEWDEGATE disclaimed any personal object
in his motion.-(Hear, hear.) He should withdraw it.
The motion for the adjournment of the debate was
then withdrawn.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL hoped the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman would not impede the progress of
this Bill.
After some discussion,
Mr. LAW said he would not put the House to the
trouble of dividing.
The motion was therefore withdrawn, and the House
went into Committee.
On clause 1 being being proposed,
Mr. F. FRENCH moved the insertion of words to
make the Bill permissive and not compulsory.
Mr. LAW seconded the amendment.
The SOLICITOR-GE NERAL said that the only ques-
tion was, whether it should be compulsory on the original
lessor or the person who represented him to commute the
leasehold tenure into a fee simple upon the payment of
a fee-farm rent. Now the real owner was not the lessor
but the lessee, who had a perpetual right to the renewal
of his lease, which right, it had been decided, in a great
number of cases, could not be taken away from him.
The Irish Society were not, therefore, the real owners
of the property, but the lessees who held under them,
and to whom it was proposed to give the real advantages
of their position.
After a few words from Captain JONES, the amend-
ment was negatived without a division.
On the qaestion that the clause stand part of the Bill,
Sir R. FERGUSON moved to omit, at lines 40 and
41, the words " and every such grant and counterpart
shall be prepared by the owner by whom the grant is
made."
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL objected to the omis-
sion of the words, but stated that if the lion. Member
would withdraw his amendment on the present occa-
sion, he would have an opportunity of proposing that
among other alterations on the third reading.
After a short discussion,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he would agree
to the omission, but would reserve the right to himself
to propose its re-insertion on the third reading.
After a few remarks from Mr. GROGAN, who depre-
cated the interference between landlord and tenants,
which was involved in the Bill,
Sir JAMES GRAHAM thought the House should
proceed on fixed principles with regard to this Bill. It
appeared to him very hard that the owner of the rever-
sion having many of those leases on his estate, should be
compelled by some of his tenants to convert into per•
petuity, and at the option of some others of his tenants,
should have another description of leases still running
against him. He thought the same rule ought to be fol-
lowed in this case as was adopted in the House the
other day with respect to copyhold tenure in England.
He thought it desirable that the principle should be
compulsory on both sides.
Atter a few words from Mr. Newdegate, Mr. Aglionby,
and Mr. Grogan,
The House divided, when there appeared-
For the clause ... 71
Against it ... 21
Majority for the clause ... -50
The clause was then ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 2,3, 4,5, 6,7, 8,9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
17, 18, 19, and 20 were agreed to without any amend-
ment, and ordered to stand part of the Bill,
Clause 21 was also ordered to stand part of the Bill.
After a few observations from Mr. (IROGAN,
Clauses 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33,
34, 35, and 36, were agreed to without any amendment.
On the question that the interpretation clause (37) be
agreed to,
Mr. FAGAN moved the following amendment:-

After the word " agreement," in line 39, page 24, to in.
sert, " and for the purposes of this Act, a covenant or
agreement, given in respect of a lease or under
lease for a term of not less than ninety years, determin-
able on a life or lives, a perpetual right of renewal
on the dropping of a life or lives within the term for
which such lease or under lease, or the renewed lease or
under lease for the time being in force may have been
granted, shall, although covenant or agreement may not
give right of renewal in the event of the termination of
such term by Effluxion of time, be deemed a covenant or
agreement for perpetual renewal of such lease or under-
lease."

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL bad no objection to
:he insertion of the words, and,
After a short conversation, the amendment was agreed
;o.

Mr. DICKSON moved the insertion of the following
clause:—" Whereas some lands are held in Ireland by
leases for a term of years exceeding seven hundred years,
with a proviso or covenant contained therein, that three
lives therein named should so long live, and containing a
clause or covenant to renew those three lives from time
to time during said term of years, without payment of
any fine upon such renewal; and whereas the necessity of
obtaining such renewals is useless, oppressive, and vex-
atious; be it therefore enacted,; by the authority afore-
said, that any such lease shall continue and hold good
as a lease for the full term of years originally granted
by such lease, discharged of any such condition as to
the term being dependent on the continuance of any
lives named therein, or the necessity of renewing same."
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL objected to the clause,
and it was ultimately withdrawn.
Mr. LAW moved the following clauses:—" And be it

enacted, that nothing in this Act contained shall extend,
or be construed to extend, to prejudice, diminish, alter,
or take away any of the rights, privileges, powers, or
authorities vested in or enjoyed by, or duties
or liabilities imposed upon, the Society of the
Governor and. Assistants, London, of the New
Plantation in Ulster, within the realm of Ireland, under
or by virtue of any charter or charters heretofore granted
to them by the Crown, or of any statute or statutes in
anywise relating thereto.—And be it enacted, that
nothing in this Act shall extend, or be construed to ex-
tend, to prejudice or in anywise to affect the es-
tate or estates, or the interest or interests, of
the said society in any lands, tenements, and
hereditaMents to which they are now entitled,
but •that the said society shall as fully and effectually
maintain and enjoy all their rights, estates, and interests
of in and to any lands, tenements, and hereditaments to
which they are entitled at the passing of this Act, in as
large and ample a manner, to all intents and purposes,
as if this Act had not been passed."
Mr. Alderman SIDNEY supported the clauses, and
said, it appeared by this Bill that the House intended to
confiscate those rights which had been given to the Irish
Society, and which they had very beneficially exercised.

After a few observations from Sir R. FaiGUSON,
Colonel DUNNE thought that clause was the mosi
valuable one which included the Irish Society, and he
should therefore oppose the motion.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the additional clauses ... 10
Against them ... . 88
Majority ... —7B
The remaining clauses were then agreed to, the House
resumed, and the report was ordered to be brought up
to-morrow at twelve o'clock.
NEW FOREST AND WALTHAM FOREST BILL.
This Bill, as amended, was considered, and ordered
to be read a third time to-morrow.
CUSTOMS BILL.

On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill,
Mr. NE WDEGATE took an objection to several of
the reductions on duties proposed by the Bill, and es-
pecially that on embroidery, which would seriously
affect the poor needlewomen in this country, who at
present could scarcely earn a decent subsistence. Thc.,
present miserable way in which that defenceless class of
society were remunerated drove numbers of them into
the streets of this metropolis to seek an addition to their
income in a way revolting to the bast feelings of hu-
manity.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the only article from which the duty was removed by
this Bill was the article of corn. With respect to the
duty on embroidery materially affecting the class of per-
sons to which the Hon. Member had referred, he
believed that it would do no such thing; but this be be-
lieved, that it would effect a great good, by putting an
end to that which was at present a great evil.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.
On the clause relating to quarantine being proposed,
Mr. THORNELY expressed a hope that before the
House met again the whole system of quarantine would
be done away with, as he considered it a disgrace to the
country, and utterly useless, as had been proved by the
report of the Board of Health.
The clauses in the Bill were agreed to with a few
verbal amendments, and the report was ordered to be
received to-morrow.
WORKHOUSE LOANS (IRELAND) BILL.

The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
On clause 1 being proposed,
Mr. GRATTAN and Mr. 0. ANSTEY complained of
the extravagance that generally characterised the ex-
penditure on workhouses.
The Bill then went through Committee, and the House
having resumed, the report was ordered to be received
to-morrow.

TREASURY INSTRUMENTS BILL.
The House next went into Committee on this Bill.
The whole of the clauses were agreed to, and thc House

having resumed, the report was ordered to be received
tomorrow.

SLAVE TRADE (PERUVIAN GULF) BILL

On the question thfkf this Bill be read a second time,
Mr. C. ANS iIEY called attention to the fac,
that ao leave had been obtained for introducing the
Bill, while the names of those Hon. Gentlemen who had
charge of the measure were not on the back of it.
The SPEAKER said the Bill was founded on a resolu-
tion of a Committee of the Bill, and leave to introduce
it was therefore given as a matter of course.
Mr. C. ANSTEY thought the Bill ought to be post-
poned in the absence of the Noble Lord at the head of
the Foreign Department.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL remarked that if the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman objected to the principle of
the Bill, he would have an opportunity of
stating his objections on going into Committee.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed to morrow.
HOUSE OF LORDS' COSTS TAXATION BILL.
This Bill went through Committee, and the report
was ordered to be received to-morrow.
GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH BILL.
This Bill, as amended, was considered, and the third
reading fixed for to-morrow.
MARRIAGES IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES FACI-

LITATING BILL.
The consideration of the Lords' amendments to this
Bill was postponed until to-morrow.

ADMIRALTY JURISDICTION IN THE COLO