The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-05 00:00:00

. .
ordinary cirentSManna In alch.. ivifts all•abeorhing mea
sure Was stands, when, for the first,titne, this nation is"
triumphing in-seeing a great, corittitut:nnal, and effective
plan of Parti.amenta*y Referm ).iissY:ght forward by his
Majeatt'sMtiaister's !n ;ill that. authority (and here I am'
tne word made use of by the Right Hon. Gen-:
tleman opposite) with which they have the polier of in-
vesting it in their character of Ministers : when i see that',
the measure so proprTed is let tilt` 'Vagne in its nature and
uncertain in ha aer.l:og for the purpose of catching
tho-ge_alemen who deal in generals and not in particulars.
—(Loud cheers.) In such a case, Sir, I feel that any one
so warmly interested in the mek.sure as myself would be
guilty of a dereliction of duty, if he exposed himself to the
possible imputation of indifference-, by miming to express ,
his sentiments en so ronmestoul and a 4u' jest.._
(Heart hear.) Ile': tame, sir, I feel that '
shat! orst-e to tsbni:u• under considerable difficulty in ad-
ifresSing the House, because it will he my duty to call its ,
attention to some portions of that commanding, powerful,
I had almost said convincing spe!ch,,.deliverod• last night
by the Right Ilan. Gentleman opposite li. Peel). But,
in the observations S that: have to make, I trust that it
is unnecery for me to assure the Right Hon. Gentleman,
as he took occasion to assure the Noble Lord who is his
Majesty's Foreign Secretary (Lord Palmerston), that I
enter on this discussion with no hostile or angry feeling ;
fir I most sincerely say that there is no one in this Reuse
for whose talents, ability, and integrity, I entertain a
higher opinion, and I have Indy "isw to reg'ret that my
sititiments on this autject should differ front his. How-
ever, in hose rcat case (the Roman Catholic question),
that was Istely before that House and the country, he
gradually came from his own opinion into that which was
so important for the best interests of Ireland, to which
country that measure was principally addressed ; and I
therefore trust that, should the present qnestion be car-
ried, we shall, in no very lung time, have the benefit of
his testimony in faVOur of tie
,advantages which it has
!..ech the means of bestowing on the nation.—(Hear, hear.)
—The Right Hon. Gentleman, in the course of his speech
last night, had the candour to express his approbation of
the conduct of the present Government, as far as that de
pattment was concerned to which I have the honour to
belong; and I cm assure him that I hold such an ohm,-
vatien at no less honourable to him than, I am sure, it
tvit he gratifying to the Noble Marquis at the head of the
Irish tlovern:ncnt. I could not, hewever, help lament-
ing that H conclioled his remarks on that point by say-
ing, that the late Government would net have been stile
to do what the present had done ; by which he would in-
timate,_ that the support which had been received from
hint and his Right Hon. Friends by us, would not, hod
the reverse been the case, have been reciprocated by the
Gentlemen who now sit on this side of the House. Was
not this au unfair position to take? When the Right
lion. Gentleman brought forward that measure which lie
conceived to be a healing one for the whole empire (and
which, in that respect, I hold to be of the same nature as
the one which his Majesty's Gov. rnment is now recom-
mending to the attention of the House), who were those
that took up the cause ? Who were they that, when he
was detested by his foriher triends, went with hint hand
in hand, and suppered him through that cause ?
(Cheers.) Who were they that had advocaoff the prin-
ciples of the Right Hon. Gentleman, because they were
the principles which they themselves had always advo-
cated?—(A laugh, and cheers from the Opposition, an-
swered by cheering flent the Ministerial side.) I am ready
to acknowledge that Mr. Canning, and others who acted
with Mr. Canning, could not have carried that mea-
sure through the Parliament, because he and they were
exposed to the ()limn of not h:ing supposed to ha
staunch supporters of the Church. The reason wily
the Right Hon. Gentleman tViA able to carry it through
then Vag, such confidence was placed in hi, support of
the Church, that it was held to he certain that he would
not propose any thing hostile to its security. But now
cannot the case be reversed in ti.is instance ? Is it not
possible that the Right Hon. Gentleman could not have
taken such a step as we have taken in Ireland, because he
is suspected (I do not say Psidy) of being no very warm
friend oil the fights of the people ?—(Cries of " No, no,
and hear, hear,")—l do not mean to say he is justly act
suspected ; but I do say, that the same f cling of confi-
dence that was placed in his Protestant principle which
enabled him to carry the Catholic question, is expressed
in the popular confidence which the presets' Government
possesses, and Which has enabled us, without suspicion,
to carry that into effect which the Right Hon. Gentleman
could not have done with the same success.—(Cheers.)
It is a remalkable circumstance, Sir, that every gentleman
on the opposite side hag, on this occasion, conic forwnrd
with a declamation—or, perhaps, I ought rather to say,
with a cry that this measure is revolutionary. I grant,
hmrt!ver; that the Right Hon. Gentleman had been cau-
tious how he used the word himself. It was not a revo•
littionary measure with him. No, it was only a new
Constitution.—(Hear.)
Sir It PEEL—I quoted the words of the Noble Lord.
(Tremendous cheering.)—l adhered to every word cf the
Noble Lord's speech purposely.—(Cheering renewed.)
Mr. STANLEY—StiII tire Right Hon. Gentleman's
argument went to show that the measure repotted was
to produce an entirely new Constitution—(Hear, hear).—
and though I admit in part that this is a new model-
ling of the Parliament, yet I must take a broad distinc-
tion between that and revolution.—(ilear, bear.)—And
yet we have head it taunted by almost every gentleman
who has spoken on the other side—" Oh, this is a re-
volution !" My idea of a revolution is, that it is a great
change in the institutions of the country, brought about
by the application of an uncon-titutional force.—(Loud
cheers.)—lt is calling into operation and effect a force not
known or recognised by the Constitution, but called by
the existence of circumstances of the time into a power
that sets it above the Ginstitntion.—(llear, hear.)—And
if there be a more mitigated sense of a revolution, the
lowest that I can admit is, that it is an infringement of
the rights of one branch of the Constitution by the exer-
cise of an exorbitant power in another.—(Hear.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL—What do you say to the revo-
lotion oil 1688 ?

Mr. STANLEY—Undoubtedly the revolution was a
glorious revolution, and one of which the country had
reason to be proud ; hut at the sime time, that revolution
was carried into effect by a conventional party, and by the
aid of foreign troops, but not with the sanction of one
putt of the estates of the realm.—(Cluers.) How dif-
ferent, then, was it from this measure, which comes in
the shape of a proposition to one branch of the estates of
the realm for the purpose of being canvassed in all its
parts, an,l which afterwards was to receive the judgment
of the other two estates, without which it can never pass
into a law ? And ye►, forsooth, we are to he told that
this is revolution ?—(Che, ring.) But, according to the
Hon. Gentleman opposite, intimidation also has been prac-
tised. We are told by them, " You threaten us who do
our duty : and by talking of appealing to the country,
vott endeavour to prevent our doing that which we ought."
I am going to quote a bight authority upon this point—no
less a one than that of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself.
—(Heer, hear, hear.) Bitt I beg that I rnsy not he
misunderstood. Ido not mike the quotation on the
ground of inconsistency, for I fully admit the force of
this argument. But when the Hon. Gentleman talks of
intimidation, and charges us with Revolution, I must be
allowed to read one short extract from a speech of the
Right Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man is, as the House may anticipate, arguing in fa-
vour of the Catholic Relief Bill ; and after going largely
into the state of Ireland at that period, he says, " We
h we also had sad example of that other and gre
discord and commotion. Surely it is no un-
manly fear to shudder at the recurrence of such things. I
would richer exclaim with Lori Falkland—. Peace !
Peace! P. ace !' and I look out with anxiety for the a'ter-
native by which civil war may be honourably averted, and
by which we may rescue the subjects of the same kingdom
front the dire necessity of shedding each others' blood.

Coeant in tiedcra clextra-
Qua datur ; ast armis concurrant arma cavete.'
Now let me ask the House, whether, in the course of this
debate, there has been made AS direct or strong an appeal
to the danger of refusing this measure, as was made by
the Right Hon. Gentleman in pleading the danger of re-
fusing what he held to he his healing measure?—(Hear,
hear.) But this is not 41. These are more words of the
Right Hon. Gentleman :—" There is such a thing as the
fear of being afraid ; and the disaffection which exists in
Ireland cannot be looked on without fear, and to affect
that we have no fear is, in other words, to be insensible
to the welfare of the country. They were not to be inti-
midated on a threat of commotion ; but I do not under-
stand the constitution of that man's mind, who, looking
at Ireland, does not fear the consequences, should its pre-
sent disturbed state continue." Sir, I agree in every
syllable of this. But if we give weight to the Right Hfln•
Gentleman's argument (which, by the way, was in con-
tradiction to his former opinions), at least let us, who
have always, on the principle of justice and political rights/
maintained the great question of Parliamentary 11.1orm—
let us at least claim the right (without being told that we
are endeavouring to intimidate or overawe) of availing
ourselves of the state of the country as a collateral argu-
ment to force on the opinion of those who are timid,
wavering, or hesitating, and relieve their doubts, by
pointing at what is the greater danger of the two. Sir,
I am free to confess that the name of the Sovereign has
been used—perhaps too much used—on this occasion.--