The Sun.
London, England, 1831-04-19 00:00:00

Lord bad shown, by what he had stated, that he coup
not have been present when the subject was formerly dis-
eneeed, because, if he had, it was impossible that he should
thane stated that any threat, or anything like a threat, hail
news been used by any Peer of that side of the Howse teho
represented the Government. With respect to one threat,
he had formerly disclaimed it, and had stetesl that he bad
n-ither the inclination, nor was he antes d with the autho-
rity, to make use of any rnettaze. Fie had, however,
stated that he and his colleagues were committed to the
entaeure, and he was prepared to adviee wlaateVer he
thought constitutional and proper to make Measure
succeed. With respect to that othee art.: More general
threat to which the Nob % Ea:`! alluded, he wished to
Know to what extent the Noble i.srl would carry his pro.
position ? The Noble Carl said that House was threatened
by danger if it rejected the measure. Was it then. a threat,
was it anything in the nature of a menace--to consider the
political hearings of any measure, and the consequences of
aolopting or rejecting it? Were they not free to engage
in the discussion of the itiventages or disadvantages of any
proposed measure, and to state on one side what dangers
it was supposed would result if any measure was not
adopted, and what advantages would accrue if it were? If
the Noble Lord called such discussion a threat, he wsmld
preclude a great branch of the most important dieeneae,oses
of Statesmen when they introduced measures which they
thought essential to the welfare of the etetntry. If such
discussion was a threat, it was not possible to avoid it. He
believed that the Noble Duke wee not accused of threaten-
ing their Lordships when he stated, as the chief ground
for bringing forward a great measure three years ago, the
-greet evils which had resulted from not before carrying it,
and the great evils which were then likely to result from
Not carrying it, including among them that evil which he,
who had looked at war in many shapes, regarded as the
greatest evil—civil war ; and when the Noble Duke had
deprecated incurring even the risk of exposing the: Country
to it, he was not considered as threatening that House, or
tieing anything more than making what he considered
a just stateire nt of the advantages to be expected from the
measure. He was not aware that anything different from
that had been said on the present occasion. Certainly,
there was a very strong feeling in the public, and he, and
the Noble Lords with whom he acted, reeve hound to con-
eider the prevent state of the country, and what was
likelF to be the effect of adopting or rejecting the measure
ten the state of public opinion, and on the confidence which
the people would be disposed to place in the Government.
In presenting such consideration to the House it was im-
possible that they could have used anything in the nature
of a threat, or go beyond the fair line of argument, in re-
minding their Lordships of the state of the country. arid of
the opinions which all persona entertained. Bet if danger
had been stated on one side, had nothing of the same kind
been said on the other ? Had the Ministers not to complain
of threats or menaces as violent as those to which the Noble
Earl alluded ? This was undoubtedly a period of great excite-
ment; and the question was with everybody who looked
anxiously to the state of the country, and he had stated so
before he had been in office,that a compliance with the wishes
of the people was of the greatest importance in producing
tranquillity, and was necessary in restoring confidence to
the Government, and giving security to the Throne. It
was nn these principles he had recommended the measure.
That excitement still prevailed throughout the country he
was not prepared to deny; but the question for considera-
tion wag, whether the excitement which prevailed now
would be increased by what he considered a safe compli-
ance with the wishes of the people, or by its being with-
held, and by their being deprived of the advantages they
expected? The balance was a fair subject of considera-
tion ; and after taking that into consideration, it had
been concluded that the excitement would not be in-
creased but diminished by the measure which his col-
leagues and he agreed to propose. The Noble Earl said
it was not proper in the Government to do any thing
to increase the excitement ; he for one could say, that he
bad taken not one step for that purpose, though he did
not know what attempts might have been made on the
other side; but he must say that a more spontaneous expre-
sion of public opinion—(Hear)—and less excited by any in-
fluence of the Government, in favour of a measure pro-
posed by the Government, he had never beheld.—(Hear,
hear,)--than on this question, which had been so repro-
bated by the Noble Lord. Then it was said that this was
an ill-prepared measure, and was not ready for discussion.
All he could say was, that after he was convinced of the
necessity of proposing some measure, he and his colleagues
did give their most anxious attention to the subject, and to
the best means of effecting what they thonght right ; and
if he had failed, which he should deeply regret, he haul
nothing to plead in defence of his conduct, but that it was
not without consideration, and not till after a most careful
examination, that a plan Was proposed to Parliament. If
he had failed, it was fur want of ability, not for want of
care and consideration. The Noble Lord had adverted to
the daily Press, and had asked if the Government had not
seen the violent libels and vehement attacks with which it
abounded? The Noble Lord said, why did "the Govern-
ment:4l'l%k? beetute the Noble Lord
knew as well as any man that the Government had no-
thing to do with not allowing the Press. He had no con-
crete' over the frees. He had no connection now with any
of the conductor, of the Public Press. He saw much
on all side, to disapprove of. He seriously' repelled all
violence and intemperance; but lie also saw much to ad-
mire in the daily Press, and must say that lie never saw
pendia of greater ability among its conductors than at pre-
sent. But it was said, too, that the Government should
disavow an these paragraphs. lie had a great deal to do
out of that house; he had also a great deal to do in it, as
en that occasion, and it would he a great addition to
Ibis labours, such as never before was imposed on any
Minister, and such as no Minister could possibly dis-
charge, to require him to comment, in his place in
the House of Lords, upon all the libels that might
be contained in the daily papers. Was his inter-
ference, too, with libels to b, confined to one side?....-
(Hear, hear, hear.)--The Noble Lord prob,bly knew
that there were papers on his bide which poured out in-
temperate libels on the Administration, imputing to Mi-
nisters the worst motives, calling them traitors to their
Sovereign, and declaring that their measures would
throw the country into confusion.—(Hear, hear.) He
looked on these attacks with calmness, and he trusted to
the good sense and intelligence of the people—(Hear)—to
blunt their effects. He had heard of libels in which lie
was referred to, but of which he refused to complain,
thinking it more judicious to trust to public opinion for
his vindication—(llear)—and thinking that no evil could
ultimately arise from any temporary delusion which might
be created. He had, therefore, never thought it right
to complain of attacks that were quite as strong as
those made on the other side, and which Noble Lords
deprecated so much when they appeared in Papers
that were in favour of Reform. He had nothing further
to add, but repeated what he had said at the beginning,
that he deprecated this irregular mode of proceeding, and
he wished, like his Noble Friend on the cross bench, that
it should not become a practice. But though he deprecated
such a practice he felt anxious, like the Noble Lord for
discussion, being convinced that the measure was founded
on Constitutional principles, and that the more it was
discussed the lees it would create excitement ; and he was
convinced that nothing hut a temperate consideration was
necessary to its success

The Earl of HAREWOOD explained that there was a
difference between any specific plan of Reform and that
Reform in the lump to which he had objected. More-
nver, when he had objected to giving representatives to
large towns, those towns had nut wished them. With
regard to the Press, his argument was not that the :Minis-
ters should controul it ; hut when they found the papers
which advocated their, measure advocated it on principles
which were dangerous to the Crown, it was their duty to
disclaim such advocates and such arguments.
The Earl of LIMERICK did not rise to prolong this
discussion, but for the purpose of rescuing an individual,
who had sat long in that House, from unmerited odium.
Annattempt had been made to cast, improperly, retlec-
tio
wi,:oprtatat.... Member of that House, and had nothing to de
House, •.tt was a question of the privileges of that
the most important matter—that of free-
domt opinion in debate in Parliament. That would
be all a Nice if
they
were to be called every morning
to account in the pa
any thing they might say by the Lords of the Press for
not agree. lie had oftensaywith which the Press did not
addressed their Lordships in the
course of a long life, but neverobse to address them with
such unpleasant feelings before
personal,
ut the attack which h 4,1
been made on him was 80
trhdat he could not suf-
Fillips would probe-
fer it to pass unnoticed. Their
bly recollect an unimportant debate
A paragraph had
which he unfortunately took a 1.,
t. Friday last, in
appeared in one of the daily papers on Saturday
in which he had been assailed in the most scurfl°ast,
manner, on account of a statement which be I h,7,41
made in that House. The Press was the greatest
vilifier of character that had ever existed. What could be
more mischievous than those libels of the Press, both on pub-
lic and on private character ? It had been called by some
the great charter of our liberties; but it might be better
called the charter of tyranny. In this paragraph it was
said, with reference to him, that " th,!re were men, or
things with human pretensions, nay with lofty privileges,
who did not blush to treat the mere proposal of establish-
ing a fund for the relief of the distressed and helpless Irish
with brutal ridintle, and almost impious scorn." The