The Sun.
London, England, 1838-08-11 00:00:00

-Tr
1ECI.ON1) ED.". k/N •• follTowheinßgoilyailllsLssent was then given, in the usual fbrm, to t
The Stamp Dies Bill; the Turpentine Penalties Bill; the
I.AIPERIAL PARLIAMENT, Juvenile Offenders Bill; the Slave Trade Treaties (Sicily)
Bill ; the Slave Trade Treaties (Tuscany) Bill ; the Affir-
(THlS EVENING.) mations Bill ; the Recovery of Tenements Bill ; the Insane
Persons (England) Bill ; the Constables on Public Works
Bill ; the Hackney Carriages Metropolis Bill ; the Bank of
Ireland Repayment Bill ; the Loan Societies (Ireland) Bill ;
the Fisheries ( Ireland) Bill; the Schools (Scotland) Bill ;
the Advocations (Scotland) Bill ; the Liverpool Clergy En-
dowment Bill ; the Liverpool Court of Passage Bill ; the
Royal Exellati7e Rebuilding Bill ; the kochford's Estate
Bill ; and Lethbridge's Divorce Bill.
The SPEAKER, attended by the Members of the House of
Commons present, then retired.
On the motion of the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, the
Militia Pay Bill, the Militia Ballot Enrolment Bill, and Cie
Mediterranean Postages Bill, were severally read a third time
and passed.
The Bishop of HEREFORD presented a petition from
Fermanagh, against the military taking part in religious
ceremonies abroad.
The House then adjourned during pleasure.
The House resumed at five o'clock, and the Earl of
StrarrEstitna having taken his seat on the 'Woolsack,
The Sugar Refining Company's Bill was real a third time
and passed.
Mr. BERNAL and others from the Commons brought up •
the Public Records Bill, and the Fines and Recoveries (Ire-.
land) Bill, with the Lords' amendments agreed to ; also the
Spirit Licences (Ireland) Suspension Bill, to which the con-
currence of their Lordships was required.
The Mails on Railways Bill was read a third erne ana
passed.
Lord RE DE SD ALE presented a petition from Sidrriouth,
praying for a further grant of public money for the Esta-
blished Church in Upper Canada.
The Duke of RICHMOND begged to ask the Noble Lord
at the head of her Majesty's Government, whether he had
taken into consideration the clause respecting the tolls on turn-
pikes in the Customs' Bill, or whether it was the intention of
the Government to abandon the Bill, which he considered a
direct attack upon private property.
Viscount MELBOURNE was extremely unwilling to
abandon the Bill, but was anxious to rectify any parts that
'might be objectionable. •
The Ecclesiastical Appointments Suspension Bill went
through a Committee, and was ordered to be read a third time
to-morrow.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his seat on the Woolsack at
a quarter before Five o'Clock.
The Consolidated Fund Appropriation Bill ►cas read a third
time and passed.
The Exchequer Bills Bill and the Exchequer Bills ( Public
Works) Bill severally went through a Committee.
The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from Brails-
ford in Derbyshire, against idolatrous worship in India.
The Commons' Amendments to the Benefices Pluralities
Bill were considered. Some verbal amendments were made,
and'the amendments were agreed to.
The County Treasurers' (Ireland) Bill went through a
Comnittee.

The Slave Trade Treaties Bill went through a Committee.
.Lord BRO IJG HA M said there was a Bill called the Per-
sOal
,Diligence Scotland Bill, the object of which was to
extend the remedy of arrest for debt. So far as the present
Bill rendered the remedy cheaper, he had no objection to. it.
—( Hear.) Other individuals, however, had objections to it,
who might wish to be afforded an opportunity of considering
them. He would, therefore, suggest that the Bill go through
a Committee now, and postpone the third reading till Monday.
The Bill then went through a Committee.
The Bankrupts' ( Scotland) Bill also went through a Com-
mittee.
Adjourned at Half-past Five.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. AUGUST 10.
The Order of the Day for receiving the Report on the Dub-
lin Corporation Officers' Compensation Bill was, on the motion
of Mr. STANLEY, discharged.
The amendments of the Lords to the Public Records Bill
were agreed to.
Mr. SHAW moved the third reading of the Spirit Licenses
(Ireland) Bill.

Mr. O'CONNELL, though he considered the law de-

festive upon this subject, was afraid that the present measure

would not effect the object in view.
After a few words from Mr. LUCAS against the Bill, it
was read a third time and passed.
Dr. LUSHINGTON then rose to move for copies of the
correspondence with the French Government respecting
certain • claims for indemnification for losses sustained by
British subjects on the Coast of Africa in consequence of
aggressions committed upon them. In 1834, two British
vessels were in the port of Portandique in the Senegal River,
trading for gum, and were seized by a French ship of war,
without the slightest notice of any blockade or otherwise.
This was a question of no small importance to the commerce of
Great Britain, and beforo the trade could be carried on with ad-

EDINBURGH MAGISTRACY.
The Earl of HADDINGTON rose to call the attention
of the House to the revision which had lately taken place in
the list of persons in the commission of the peace for
the city of Edinburgh. An addition had been made
to the number of the magistracy to the amount of
91, and these with the persons previously in the com-
mission and official personages, made the total number 187.
Fie knew not why this immense array of justice should have
been provided, and he thought he had some right to complain
of the selection made when he informed their Lordships that.
of the 91 lately appointed 87 were notoriously Whigs or 'Att.
dicals.--( A laugh.) Of the entire Magistracy 104 were
what are called merchants, although the greater p;,:,1 of these
were merely shopkeepers of a respectable class, f..nd only 14 of
these were Conservatives. What he wante;it to know was
an whose recommendation these appointme..nts had been made ?
He should, therefore, move for copies P.:rthe correspondence on
the subject of these appointments, 'oetween the L ord Provost
of Edinburgh, and the. Noble an.'a Learned Lord on the Wool-
sack.

vantage to the British trader the right of the French coast must
be satisfactorily ascertained. With respect to the transaction
of which he complained, whatever might be the right of the
French Government in the place where the seizure took
place, it was utterly impossible to maintain that Government
had any right forcibly to take possession of two British vessels
carrying the flag of England ; to carry them away without the
slightest previous notice whatever; and to deprive the mer-
chants, the owners of the vessels, of all the benefit of
the engagement they had entered into ; and, in short, to en-
tail on them a total loss in their adventure.—( Hear, hear.)
If the French Government were permitted without inter-
ference to take such proceedings as they had adopted the
inevitable result would be the destruction of a valuable
trade. Negotiations had been carried on between the
British and the French Governments on this subject
with respect to demands which had been made by the British
merchants owning the vessels that had been seized for indem-
nity ; and his (Dr. Lushington's) motion was, that those ne-
ciations be laid upon the'table.
Lord PALMERSTON admitted the subject to be one of
very considerable importance. But he thought the Learned
Gentleman (Dr. L.) would consider that he ( Lord P.) would
be acting contrary to his duty as a Minister of the Crown, to
consent to the production of a correspondence showing an unfi-
nished negotiation between the British Government and that of a
foreign Power. If the negotiations had been at an end, and if
the determination was such as not to be satisfactory to the
Government or the country, undoubtedly his Hon. and
Learned Friend would have a good ground for calling on
Government to produce the correspondence with the view of
founding on it such motion as he might think proper. But it
would be a departure from the general practice, and attended
with obvious inconvenience, if pending a negotiation he were
to consent to the production of the partial correspondence .
which had taken place. •For the same reason it would be
improper for him to state the precise condition in which
the negotiation now stood. He hoped the French Govern-
ment would give the question a fair consideration ; and he was
sure there was nothing either in the amount claimed or the
interests which might be affected by this matter, which would
induce that Government to deny the justice which might be
due. The negotiation had been for a considerable time pending;
but it was his firm expectation and belief that it would end in
a manner satisfactory to all parties.
Alderman TH 0 MPSON said, as this question was
one of immense importance to the shipping and commercial in-
terests of the country, he felt it necessary to trouble the House
with a few observations. He must say he was disappointed at the
Noble Lord's refusal of these documents, for the property in ques-
tion was considerable, and the individuals concerned were suffer-
ing great inconvenience from the delay vt Lich had taken place.
Ho must confess that he was disappointed that the Noble Lord
had not in a more earnest manner expressed his opinion as to
the justice of the claim of these individuals. It should be
recollected that their ships had been seized tutc'er the
pretence of a blockade, of which they had no notice.
He was not competent to discuss the question of what the in-
ternational law on the subject was ; but he had been told that
the highest authorities on the subject had considered this to be
a gross insult to the British flag. There could be no doubt
that this had been done by the French Government for
the purpose of gaining possession of the gum trade. He
was apprehensive from what he heard that there was no dis-
position on the part of the French Government to meet this
question fairly. He trusted, unless this important question
was settled before the meeting of next Session, his Hon.
Friend would bring the subject before the House.
Dr. LUSHINGTON would not then press his motion,

The Lord CHANCELLOR bad no knowledge himself of
the facts of the case, but he believed the information of the
Noble Earl would be found to be unfounded; and for this
reason, that no complaint had ever been made to him
of the persons so appointed. A list had been sub-
mitted to him by the Lord Provost, in the month of
October or November last, and he (the Lord Chancellor) had
written in reply to state, that the names in the Lord Provost's
list would be inserted in the new Commission. He was satis-
fied that the Lord Provost, who was also Lord Lieutenant of
the county of the town of Edinburgh, would not insert the
names of any improper persons. He had now stated
the whole of the correspondence, and the Noble Earl might
take any further steps he thought proper.
Lord LYNDHURST had himself had many complaints
from Edinburgh. In England when the Lord Lieutenant
was a Tory the commission was kept back to the last moment, and
inquiries were made in other quarters before the appointments
were made. It appeared to him that the difference between
Whigs and Radicals was very trifling. Whigs, when out of
office, were Radicals.—( A laugh.) He thought there was
no fair play in appointing 87 of one party and three or four
of the other.

Lord BROUGHAM did not go quite the length of his
Noble and Learned Friend in his definition of Whigs and
Radicals.--( A laugh.) If there had been only four Con-
servatives appointed out of ninety-one Magistrates, be
would say that he thought it very unfair. In Edinburgh,
however, it was well known that the great majority of the:
respectable classes were of what were called liberal prin-
ciples, End he would observe that no charge had been
brought against them in the discharge of their judicial functions.
After a few words in explanation from the Lord Chancel-.
lor, the Earl of Haddington, and Lord Brougham, the mo-
tion was agreed to.

CANADA GOVERNMENT ACT DECL4IZATORT
BILL.
Leml BROUGHAM then moved the Order of the Day for
going into Committee on, this Bill.

but if in the meantime the French Governnient did not afford I
justice to the parties, he would feel it his duty to bring the
matter under the notice of the House at the earliest possible
moment; and then he would feel it his duty to make use of
those documents which he had abstained from now.—
Motion negatived.
Captain WOOD rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill
to alter the duties on grapes, apples, cherries, pears, and other
fruits imported into the United Kingdom from foreign parts.
By the Customs Acts the duty upon these fruits was reduced
to a 5 per cent. ad valorem duty. An ad valorem duty i
would n fact be no protection at all. The Honourable
Member went on to say that he hoped the House
would consent to make such an alteration of the du-
ties on the articles in question, and with that view he
moved that the House do resolve itself into a Committee on
the Custom Duties Act.

Mr. P. THOMSON said he thought the motion was
ardly regular; for the Custom Duties Act had not yet received
the Royal Assent. The lion. Member was completely mistaken
in supposing this to be a hardship on the fruit-sellers. The
reverse was the fact. The result of this change would be,
that when these fruits were scarce here at particular seasons,
there would be a rather larger quantity at a cheaper rate than
at present. A large increase bad been made in the foreign
trade by this means, which would not otherwise have taken
place. He trusted the House would not depart fron the
course of legislation it had followed on thes'.. matters,
-.
unless by experience a case of hardship
ihe ad valorem duty
He had heard it stated before, that vas made out.
was no duty at all upon these articles, because they were
perishable. On that account, in his opinion, the duty
became much more important and onerous. He was afraid
before the next Session they might have reason to rue
the legislation that had taken place on this subject. He had
no idea of cote protection which was improper being made the
excuse fur another.
Captain WOOD wished to know why the agricultural inte-
rest should not hive the same protection as the manufactures?
Alderman THOMPSON agreed with the Hon. Member op-
posite that the House ought not to entertain the proposition.
The lint. Member must go much further, and impose a duty
'llpon all fruit brought into London by railways, as well as from
foreign parts.
After a few words from Sir C. B. VE RE,
Mr. WA thought it would he a very proper thing
to are
address to the Queen for calling the House
gNoAto LaL n A e R
together in November. When they were considering the Corn
question they might be able to afford time to consider that of
apples and pears, Ho really believed that it would be more
a pesti4n with the people whether they had a covering for
tileir pies, than whether they would have apples or pears to put
under it.—( Cheers and laughter.)
Mr. VI LLIERS was not prepared within one week of the
adjournment of the House, to hear a Gentleman representing
the landed interest come forward with a proposition to raise the
duties, on the produce of land, which must have the effect
of increasing the rent of land. —(Hear, hear.) When every
body mos alarmed at the high price of grain, it did appear
somewhat singular that the Hon. Gentleman (Captain Wood)
should come forward to raise the price of vegetables. Such
an attempt on the part of the Hen. Gentleman was an indi-
cation of what they might expect if the landed interest
PITA power in that House.—(Hear, hear.) He was sa-
tisfied with the opposition to the Bill of toe Hon. Member,
and hoped it would have the effect of calling the attention of
the country to the operation of the Corn-laws. The true
way of remedying the grievances which the market-gardeners
complained of was to repeal the Corn-laws. Yet the Hon.
Member (Capt. Wood) voted against considering those laws.
Mr. M. PfIILLIPS also opposed the motion, which
after a brief reply from Captain WOOD, was negatived with-
out a division,
On the motion of Captain WOOD returns were ordered of
the foreign fruit imported into the United Kingdoms in 1836,
1837, and 1838.
Mr. P. THOMSON moved that the 1-louse at its rising
adjourn until Monday next.—Agreed to.
The House adjourned at a quarter before six.

HOUSE OF L ORD S,• Aucusr 10.

The Loan CHANCELLOR, the Marquis Of LANSDOWNE, anti
the Earl of SuarrEssonv, sat to-day at Four &Clock as Re) al
Commissioners; and the Usher of the Black Rod having been
directed to summon the [louse of Commons, the SPEAKER,
attended by several Members, shortly afterwards appeared at
the Bar.

Visceunt ME LBOU RN E rose and seid—Before my Noble
and Learned Friend leaves the Woolsack, it may be as re-
spectful and convenient to your Lordships that 1 should state
the course which I intend to pursue in reference to this Bill.
Your Lordships have determined, unquestionably very con-
trary to my feelings, to give a second reading to this Bill,
and it is impossible for me to express my deep concern and my
great anxiety for the great and important interests which are
now at stake in it. With respect to the objecsion taken to the
ordinance's recently promulgated by Lord Durham, that is a.
point which rests upon a ',Road principle of law, which I do
not pretend nor mean to deny—a principle of law very evident,
clear, and distinct, to lawyers, though not, perhaps,
inin fatist.a otur
so clearly apprehended by other persons.--...( Hear.) It is
ere)flety,
atnd, aanndentzut partyragem is
encouragement
partyaparticuu,lhairehpairmty
hcd i
ctyeehpdi
depend
nh red e
bentbN e
Noble
uponbl
upon
oee nn•it
a.
s
ntadlgit aLmisettleasptrtlreatal idtt
latelye which
uyneudurosut
may
undoubtedly
eswziolciel.o,fibuetni
hst
the
pursuinghy
twoe,
eaf
fteiet of the
countries.
; that
will be the effect of the course your Lordships have pursued--
the practical effect ; and the reason why I objected to your
Lordships taking that course, and why I endeavoured tp dis-
suade you from taking it was, that it was impossible for me
to conceal th© apprehensions with which I look upon this
course, and especially when it is taken at such a distance from
the scene in which it is to operate, and when it is impossiblu
for us to say in what state or condition o` feeling those debatee
and this Bill may find the people and the inhabitants of •
•:nat.
colony. However, setting aside this, unquestionably lam of
opinion that it would have been far better if your leordsllts
had not taken that course, that it would have been far more
prudent if your Lordships had left that course ko be pursued
which should be decided upon by herMajestY% Ministers ; but as
your Lordships have decided otherwise,it for rne now to state
the course which I and my colleagueshrlse considered it our duty
to take in consequence of that deeisi7on. My Lords, I cannot but
say that, looking at these ordine.nces, and being compelled to
admit that ono part of the''., clearly without the bounds of
the jurisdiction of the 'noble Earl, the Governor- General of
Canada, I cannot tut say that I felt very much pressed by the
argument that c.i.Al from my Noble Friend opposite (the Earl
of Ripon'j on a former occasion, when he said that he consi-
dered, that one part of these ordinances was clearly and dis-
'tinctly beyond the bounds of the authority that had undertaken
to create them ; and when he also said that, with respect to a
colony of this nature, a chartered colony, the Crown had not
the power of allowing one part and rejecting another, I felt
strongly pressed by his argument to come to the conclusion
that her 'Majesty ought to be advised to disallow these ordi-
nances.—(Cries of" Hear, hear,".from the Opposition.) ' On
the contrary, in disallowing an orditance of so solemn a
character, I could not avoid taking into consideration the effect
which it would produce, iu enabling the persons affected by
it to return to the scat of Governmtnt, and permitting those
against whom part of the ordinance wes directed also to
return if they thought proper ; I cannot avoid saying that the
impression under eeehich I addressed your Lordships last
night was, that you were in effect striking. at the root of all
authority in the country. Grave objections were taken to
that part of the ordinance which related to those persons not
in custody, but who had fled from the country. Now, my
Lords, I think it impossible to suppose but that everybody
acquainted with the feeling of the present day, and
with the temper and disposition of my • Noble Friend
the GovernoreGeneral--(" Hear, hear," from Lord Lynd-
hurst)—must feel certain that this was merely held out in ter-
rorem, that it was intended to secure the colony against the re-
turn of those persons, which necessarily must have been felt to
be dangerous ; and I must say that I should have been )'.otter
contented if your Lordships had not interfered with 0-At part
of the ordinance, because from the particular ons:issions in
it, as I argued last night, it is not possible te, believe that
there must not have been some particular and refficient reasons
for those omissions. At the same time. feeling that I was
pressed by the argument that had fallen from my Noble
Friend (the Earl of Ripon)—fe,el.;ng strongly the cogency
with which he urged that the Crown having disallowed one
part of the ordinance, it being clearly unwarranted by law,
it was very difficult to avoid exercising the power of the
Crown and disallowing the ordinance, I therefore beg
leave to say that wo have come to the decision of advis-
ing her Majesty to this course, and to disallow thel
cannotord't ordinance.
—( Loud cheers from the Opposition benells
s that I have
say that it is with the deepest regret and alarm
taken this course.—(Hear, bear.) I cannot hut say that it
is not without very great apprehensions ef
the
without feel-
ing the greatest pain
consequences
that I have taken this course, and that it is not
and regret that I have come to the de-
termination. It follows as a consequence that ono part of the
ordinance being illegal, that which was done in execution of
tn
, -at part of it is also illegal, and those who have acted in the
execution of it are liable to proossedin s in the civil
gand crimi-
nal Courts.
It is necessary, therefore, that some indemnity
should be given to those persons; and seeing, as Was per-
fectlywell known, the guilt of the parties against whom the.
ordinance was directed, and seeing that those who may have
detained those parties have acted in such a mimes as eubjec-
ted them to the penalty of the law, I certainly have felt that
the indemnity clause of the present Bill should he passed.
With respect to the first clause of the Bill, 1 think it gem
too far. It deprives the Government in Canada of a power
which they may find it necessary to exercise, and it is, in lay
opinion, for that reason, objectionable ; and, therefore, in the
adoption of that clause it is impossible for me to concur, A