The Sun.
London, England, 1831-02-18 00:00:00

EXCISE ACTS.

- -
Mr. ELLICE brought up the report of the Committee
Qn the Excise Acts. The report was read and the rest,
Cons agreed to; Bill to be brought in pursuant to the said
resolutions.

CUSTOMS' ACTS.
Mr. ELLICE brought up the report of the Cornmitr
oa the Customs' Act. 4

On the question that the report be received!,
Mr. P. COURTENAY begged to ask the Noble Lord
whether he intended to make any alteration in his plan
with regard to the duty on Cape wines?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had re-
ceived a deputation from persons interested in this trade,
and from the representations they had made to him, he
had been induced to agree to an alteration which he under-
stood would satisfy them. The alteration was this :—in-
stead of raising at once the duty on Cape wines to the
amount at which he proposed to fix the duties on other
wines, he should raise the duties on Cape wines from
2s. sd. to 2s. 9d. per gallon. This rate of duty would
continue for two years.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. FERGUSSON asked the Noble Lord a question
with regard to the duty on cotton, but the exact purport of
the duration did not reach the gallery.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER expected
shortly to receive a deputation from the cotton manufac-
turers of Lancashire, and after he had seen them he should
be able to answer his Hon. Friend's question.
Mr. FERRIES would suggest to the Noble Lord
whether, since so many alterations had been made in the
budget, it would not be desirable for the Noble Lord to
state the budget to the House in its modified state, at as
early a period as might be consistent with the Noble
Lord's convenience.

Mr. O'BRIEN would take that opportunity of entreat-
ing the Noble Lord not to pei severe in his prop ised tax
upon passengers in steam-boat. It was, in his opinion,
one of the worst taxes that could have keen proposed.
Air. WILKS was also of op'nion that the tax ought t)
be withdrawn.

Mr. HUME rose to put • in his word upon this subject.
There wore thirty or forty steam-boats in the Clyde, and
by means of these the whole western coast of Scotland
had become active. Those who had formerly been en-
gaged in the kelp trade, had now taken small gardens, and
by means of the steam-boats were enabled to supply th,t
neighbouring markets with vegetables. The Noble Lot d's
tax would destroy all this. Now they had by means of
steam-boats broUght Edinburgh and Dublin within forty-
four miles of them—(Hear and laughter)—he meant
within forty-four hours' journey of them, we might judge
of the benefit of such a means of conveyance, and conse-
quently of the impolicy of the proposed tax. There was
scarcely any thing that he would not agree to as a substi-
tute for this tax ; and if it were persevered in, there would
not be a hamlet in the west of Scotland which would net
petition against it.
Mr. FERGUSSON said, that all the industry of the
west of Scotland was supported by steam-boats, ansi that
this tax would be most prejudical to the inhabitants of
that part of the empire.

.
Alm SADLER said, that although Scotland only had
been alluded to. he must protest against the proposed tax
on the part of the people of Ireland. This tax would
effectually prevent the ingress of the Irish labourer into
this country. Rather let the Noble Lord tax the ab-
sentees, by whose mischievous emigration the people of
Ireland were prevented from obtaining employment and
remuneration for their labour at home.
Mr. EWART opposed the tax.
Mr. J. GRA TTAN said, that the tax would be thought
in Ireland to be intended to prevent the Irish labourers
from coining to England.
Sir R. BATESON implored the Noble Lord not to.lay
coo:
nny;sliolr
.iam
againstiirpe impolitic letiHntbi
revenue.
HUGHES
Gat naHxd,Es
tosh
eu saidn unpopular
tphualta:
representations:easxi: !e
186htr the
thee
lg:e d:ri ke:cl to•I:ti'le; in

against it from the Isle of Wight were so strong, that lie
hoped the Noble Lord would not persevere in it.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD said that the tax would be a
prohibition upon the poor of his unfortunate countrymen
against their coming here, and that it would, in many
instances, he a tax of 300 per cent. upon the passage
money.
Mr. R. COLBORNE agreed with those who praised
the Noble Lord, and did not blame any one for criticizing
the taxes which the Noble Lord proposed to impose; but
he did blame those who got up incidental discussions like
the present.—(Hear, hear.)—Let him take this oppor-
tunity of observing, that some Hon. Members were alwa)s
goading the Noble Lord to lay on a property-tax, and yet
they must well know that neither this House nor tl.e
other would agree to such a tax.—(Hear, hear.)-11,
was convinced that the declaration of a Noble Earl on
this subject, in another place, had given general satis-

faction.
Mr. H. SUMNER was not at all surprised at the
alarm which some Hon. Members had expressed lest the
proposed tax should prevent the ingress of labourers from
the sister kingdom. The Irish labourers came here on
the speculation of maintaining themselves during the har-
vest, and of carrying away with them 5/., or 61., or 71.
The proposed tax would of course diminish their earn-
ings, but he was sure it would not prevent them coming
here. But there were other parties, whose interests had
been altogether overlooked—he meant the inhabitants of
the maritime counties. The Irish labourers came into
those counties with their savings probably in their girdles
—which girdles we could not search—and, throwing
themselves on the parishes, got passed back to their own
country at the expence of others.—(Hear, hear.)—Bris-
tol now paid 2,5001. a-year for passing Irish vagrants, and
if this tax were agreed to it would pay double that sum.
Liverpool would have to pay a much greater sum.
Mr. WARBURTON said that imposing this tax upon
passengers in steam-boats would have the effect of putting
down the steam-boats altogether. What would be the
consequence of this? Why, they were going to put a duty
upon the export of coals, amounting only to ss. per Lon-
don chaldron. By this measure foreigners would prome
coals at so easy a rate, that they would be enabled to start
steam-vessels from Calais, Ostend, Dunkirk, and other
places. Thus our own steam-boats (if the proposed tax
were imposed) would be utterly unable to compete with
the steam- boats of foreigners.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER must
say that Hon. Members, though extremely glad to have
taxes taken off, were more naturally than reasonably loud
in objecting to any new taxes being put on.—(Cheers.)—
It were surely unnecessary for him to remind Hon. Mem-
bers that he must substitute some taxes for those which
were removed. The tax upon passengers in steam-boats
• was objected to as being contrary to principle. Why so
was almost every tax. It was hardly possible to point out
one tax which did not militate against some principle.
With regard to this tax, however, he must say, that while
every mode of land-carriage was taxed, he did think that
a tax, in some way modified, on the rival mode of carry-
ing passengers was not improper.—(Hear, hear. )—He
said, "in some way modified," because, after receiving
more particular information upon the subject, he might
find that he had not modified it on the best possible
scale. What, however, he must contend for was this,—
namely, that when the one mode of carriage was taxed, it
was not unjust to tax the rival mode of carriage. But
then it was said that the tax on land-carriage was im-
proper, and that the tax on stage-coaches and post horses
ought to be taken off. He should be very glad to take off
those t ,xes if he could ; but he was sure that, when there
was an opportunity of reducing taxation, no gentleman
would say that the tax of stage coaches and post horses
ought to be the first to be taken off.—(Hear.)—He ad-
mitted that on small distances, and particularly on ferries,
the tax he had proposed was too heavy. That he readily
admitted, but an alteration in that particular was easily
made. An Hon. Gentleman, not now in his place, had talked
of the many changes that had been made in the budget.
That he had made changes in his budget was true ; and in-
stead of being sorry for having done so, he should have been,
and should have bad great reason to be, ashamed if he
had not made changes in those parts of his plan against
which reasonable and substantial objections had been ad-
duced..—(Cheers.)—The House must be aware that, with
regard to any plan for alteration of taxation, and for lay-
ing on new taxes, it was his duty to preserve complete
secrecy, and that consequently he was precluded from
adopting means fire acquiring such information as was ab-
solutely requisite for the formation of any plan that would
not be liable to objections.—(Cheers.)
Mc. PRICE thought the proposed tax upon passengers
by steam-vessels a very objectionable one.
Mr. TENNANT said, that if this tax were laid on
steam-vessels, strong representations - against it would be
made to the House from the stage-coach proprietors, as a
tax upon stage coaches.—(Much laughter.)—He was ac-
quainted with a set of adventurers—(A laugh)—as they
might be called, and he was at this present time in com-
munication with a committee of capitalists and specula-
tors, who were about establishing a steam navigation
company for the conveyance of goods and passengers to
all parts of Europe, and he would state that this was
considered by all those parties as a most objectionable tax.
kle hoped it would be abandoned.
Mc. Alderman THOMPSON trusted that the Noble
Lord would not persevere with this tax, which would be
It most cruel one upon those shopkeepers in London who,
after being for the whole week in the city at their busi-
ness, sought for recreation and amusement at Gravesend
and Margate.
Mr. SHAW observed, that this tax upon passengers
by steam-vessels was a most injudicious tax upon the in-
tercourse latween the two countries, and that it had been
already laid hold of by the anti-Union faction in Ireland,
fcr the purpose of raising an outcry in that country.
Mr. P. THOMSON remarked, that the steam-vessels
would be very little affected by such a tax as this, while
they would be materially bentfitted by the removal of the
duty on coals. The resolution for reducing that duty was
the subject now before the House, and this, therefore, was
not the proper time to discuss the proposed tax upon pas-
sengers by steam-vessels.
Lord STORMONT professed himself quite, opposed to
the tax upon steam-vessels, more especially on account of
the injurious effects it would have upon the western coast
and islands of Scotland.
Mr. Alderman WOOD thought that Scotland should be
exempted from such a tax as this. Therefore, when it
should come to be proposed, he now gave notice that he
would move that Scotland should be exempt from it. As
it would be necessary to find a substitute for the deficiency
which would arise from that exemption, be would propose
to supply it in this way. Scotland had at present a draw-
back allowed her to the amount of 200,0001. upon malt.
That was a complete robbery on the country, for the malt
was never used. He gave notice, therefore, that when
the Noble Lord brought forward his resolution for
the imposition of this tax, he (Alderman Wood)
would move that Scotland be exempted from it,
and that as a substitute no drawback shall he allowed here-
atter to Scotland on malt. There were other means, by
resorting to which the Noble Lord could effect a conside-
rable saving. There was a motion which stood in the
order book for a reduction of salaries. Now he would
tell the Noble Lord that if he did not effect reductions in
the public salaries to the amount of '700,0001., he would
loot do his duty to the country. If he did that, he might
let cotton and other articles go untaxed, It the Noble
Lord would reduce the salaries of 69 departments which
received about 3,000,000/. annually of the public money,
he could do without the tax upon cotton, and other taxes
which he proposed to impose.
Sir G. CLERK would second the motions of which
the Worthy Alderman had given notice, for exempting
Scotland from the tax upon steam-packets, and also for
taking off the drawback allowed there on malt, when they
should be brought forward. He could not avoid remark-
ing, that last Session the Hon. Member for Callington
(Mr. Baring) had stated that a commutation of taxes
would afford little er no relief to the people of this country,
and the little satisfaction which the present budget had
given appeared to him (Sir G. Clerk) to afford a strong
proof of the correctness of that statement.
Sir C. BURRELL did not see why steam-coaches em-
ployed upon the railways, should not be liable to a tax of
this description, if such a tax were to be imposed, as well
as steam-vessels.
Sir C. FORBES said, that the Noble Lord seemed to
be pretty much in the situation of the old man and his
ass in the fable, who by endeavouring to please everybody,
succeeded in pleasing nobody.
For his part, he would
say that he thought the proposed tax a fair and reason-
able true.
Mr. F. LEWIS said, that there was in Northumberland
a peculiar duty to which Newcastle coals were liable, he
meant the Richmond ship duty. He wished to know
whether the Noble Lord peoposed to repeal that tax as well
as the tax upon coals generally ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
in so low and indistinct a tone that it was impossible to
collect accurately the purport of what he said. We un_
derstood the Noble Lord to say, that the tax in question
had been under the consideration of Government, and that
they had not found it practicable to remit it.
After a few words from Mr. W. BURRELL, Mr. As-
After
Colonel Stweuuar, the report was received.

The resolutions were put and agreed to, and a Bill was or-
dered to be brought in pursuant to the same.
. .

Mr. EVANS obtained leave to bring in a Bill to pre-
vent the application of corporate funds to the purposes of
elections of Members of Parliament.

Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON presented a petition from
an individual, complaining that he bad been illegally de-
prived of his freedom of Dublin by the Corporation of that
city. The petitioner set forth that the municipal body of
Dublin consisted of bankrupts, insolvents, and people of
low and infamous character.

Mr. SHAW said that the Hon. Member had not given
him any notice of this petition, and when he bad asked
him of its nature, be replied "No matter what the peti-
tion is, it will do for a breeze in the House between
you and me." He (Mr. Shaw) would once for all protest
against his entering the list in this sort of Irish political
pugilism, and he wished that the Hon. Member would not
occupy the valuable time of the House for the sake of what
he called a breeze between individuals. There was not the
slightest foundation for the allegations of the petition.
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN said that many of the
persons whom the petitioner vituperated were, to his
knowledge, men of unblemished reputation. The gallery
was cleared for a division upon the petitions being received,
hut we understood that it was allowed to be brought up
without the House dividing.
[nd EBRINGTON moved the printing of petition
presented on Friday last, complaining of corrupt practices
in the borough of Bridport.
Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON seconded the motion, and
at the same time gave notice that to-morrow lie should
make a similar motion respecting the petition against the
Corporation of Dublin, which he had that night presented.
Sir R. INGLIS opposed the motion for printing the
petition.
Sir C. WETHERELL also resisted the printing of the
petition.
Mr. RICE thought there was not much in the objection
of the Hon. Baronet (the Member for the University of
Oxford). It had long been the custom of the House to
print the petitions of individuals—whether that was a
wise practice or not, was not then the question.
Mr. HUME supported the motion for printing the
petition.
Mr. WILKS also spoke in favour of the printing of the
petition.
After a few further remarks from Mr. CUATEIII and
Lord EBRINGrON,

Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON wishing to take the sense
of the House on the subject, the House divided, and there
appeared—
Noes 55
Ayes 3B
Against printing the petition —l7
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented petitions from the
town of Hertford for Parliamentary Reform ; and from
Ludgershall, for the abolition of all rotten boroughs ; also
a petition from Hertford against negro slavery.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petition from deputies
of Protestant Dissenters of three denominations, in favour
of the admission of Jews to the enjoyment of civil tights,
and declared his intention of supporting the motion for that
purpose when brought forward.
Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON regretted the postpone-
ment of the Bill to remove the disabilities of the Jews, and
promised his cordial support to the measure.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petition from the in-
habitants of Crete, complaining of the evils under which
they I,thoured, in consequence of Turkish oppression.
Mr. HUME objected to the reception of a petition
coming from individuals who were not British subjects,
and who claimed protection against their own Government
—a Government in alliance with this country.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the object of the petition ap-
peared to be, to induce this country to make representations
calculated to obtain for the Cretans the benefit of the
treaty of 1827, and place them under the same protection
as the Morea.

Mr. HUME observed, that when petitions were pre-
sented to the French National Convention, on the part of
certain societies in this country, their reception was con-
sidered by us as an act of improper interference : a similar
objection might be taken by Turkey to the reception of this
petition.
The SPEAKER said that the first point, which was
important to the consideration of the House, was whether
a petition from persons of this description could be re-
ceived ; they were persons who owed no allegiance to the
Crown, and could claim no protection. Their object was
to sue for the interference of the Crown of Great Britain
to protect them from the miseries to which they were ex-
posed. The next point was, whether this was a petition
at all, and if so, whether it was to the House of Com-
mons. There was not any beginning in the usual form,
and where the prayer should be, it was said that the
Cretans looked confidently up to the people of England
that they would advocate the cause of Crete. It was,
therefore, not a petition to the House of Commons, but,
through the House of Commons, to the English nation,
instead of addressing the Crown. Both these points were
worthy the consideration of the House.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that after this opinion, he
wished to withdraw the petition ; which, after a few words
from Mr. GORMAN MAHON, Lord F. L. GOWER, and
Mr. RUTHVEN, was granted.
Petitions for Reform were presented from Lyme Regis,
Wootton Bassett, Lyinington, Newport, and two places in
Monmouthshire, by Lord J. Russell ; from Lynn, by Lord
G. Bentinck ; from Mansfield, by Mr. C. Tyrell ; from
Thornton, in Yorkshire, and Great Bedwin, in Wilts, by
Mr. Slaney ; from Oxholm, Lincoln, by Sir W. Ingilby.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petition from Hunt-
ingdon for the repeal of the assessed taxes.
Lord BRABAZON presented a petition from the cotton-
weavers of Dublin for a repeal of the Union.
Sir C. COOTE presented a petition from a place in
Ireland, against the Kildare-street Society.
Mr. N. CALVERT presented petitions from Hitchin and
Bishop Stortford, for the repeal of the coal duty.
Alderman WINCHESTER presented a petition from
St. Martin's-in-the-Fields, against the select vestry act.
Mr. HUME presented several petitions for the abolition
of slavery.
Colonel DAVIES presented a petition from Worcester,
with the same prayer.
Lord F. L. GOWER presented a petition from certain
separatists in Scotland, complaining of the oaths and disa-
hiliti.s to which they were subject.
The NOBLE Loan also presented a petition from the
Magistrates and others in the western part part of Galway,
respecting the kelp trade.
Mr. HOBHOUSE brought in a Bill to repeal the laws
relating to apprentices in cotton and others mills, and to
make certain regulations in lieu of them. It was read a
first time, and ordered to be read a second time this day
week.

Mr. LAMB presented sundry returns.
Mr. S. RICE presented a petition from Ireland, respect-
ing the Galway election franchise; and another against the
repeal of the Union.
The House then adjourned at Half-past Eleven,

CONTRACTS FOR THE NAVY.—The con-
tracts which are about to be taken by the Commissioners
of the Navy have excited much interest. Yesterday the
following notice was sent from the Navy Board to the
Baltic Coffee-house, fur the perusal of the Russian mer-
chants and others engaged in the Hemp trade, with re-
ference to the contract for the supply of a considerable
quantity, of which notice has been given by Government
IlEstr.—The Commissioners of the Navy having, since
issuing their notice of the 9th instant for Hemp, had the
question pot to them—' Whether they would receive
tenders for Hemp from the market at home as well as for
Hemp to be imported ?' do hereby give notice that the
said advertisement was not intended to exclude Hemp
from the market at home, if on survey at the Dock-yards
it is found fit for his Majesty's service ; but all tenders for
Hemp from the market must contain proof of the time
when the Hemp was imported."
EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCE.—At
the last Lancaster Assizes, an old man of the name of
RIGBY, was brought up to give evidence on a trial of con-
sideralk.. importance. This witness was handed into the
box with great solemnity and parade, in consequence, as
it was then alleged, of his having attained the extraordi-
nary age of one hundred and one years and upwards.
The old man swore that he was born in the year 1729,
gave a string of hearsay evidence very distinctly, said that
he very well remembered the Battle of Culloden, and when
the rebels marched through the country, he acted as guide
to the Pretender over the river Irwell, fcc, It has since
then been clearly proved by the deposition; of his relatives
aml undoubted documentary proofs, he was horn in the
year 1750, and baptised 22d day of July of that year. His
parents, Enwaan and RACHEL RIGBY, were married at
the parish church of Warrington on the 10th day of July,
1730. Five children were born of that marriage before
their son Cita 14. gs, the subject of this article, and were
all baptised and regi►tered at that church. In point of
fact, he was 80 years of age in July last. This old im-
poster died in November last, in Texteth Park, Liverpool.
When he was on his-death-bed, the person with whom he
lived requested a clergyman might visit him, but he said
he wanted no parsons, he had made his peace when he
was a lad, and he cried " bring me some brandy."--Not
one of his relations would follow him to his graves