The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-12 00:00:00

TUISDAY EVEN'ING, JUNE 11, Tridk

lives had been sacrificed out o? thirty -four which were in
zee mine at tie) time of the exptoeiere eVnekti their
Lordships .i,itet ti eno rot Of c..d.trutt!es -
jug so fr)quen!iy their 700 er 800 per,one were killed
cod the eeine homer ineirn rl tsn l iiijiired vTy year,
and e hen they a tw that 1.500 persons w, re more or less
damaged evera year from the utter ill) plsAbuity of tuck-
leg, the workmen alt-n.l to their own ewer:, by the
peter use. of the safety hoop, they ceu!il not. want mere
eieneve proef of the 11, ceeeity that emelt-thine might to
hi dune, and to be done iremedistely. Ile thought that
it would be better to have a Committee of their L ird-
ships appointed to examine into the whole of this sub-
ject. If this system of ventilation were a cure for the
explosion of fire-damp, he should not like to be the pro-
prietor
of a coal mine criminally proceeded against for
the result of such explosion, now that the cure was
known. He then favoured the House with a description
of the experiments which Mr. Watt, the inventor of the
steam-engine, had personally superintended in a coal
mine that was on fire, for the purpose of extinguishing
the fire by means of a rapid supply of steam to all parts
of the mine.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE believed that it had
now been pretty well ascertained that experiments of a
successful nature—he himself hal had an oppertunity of
seeing one of them—had been reale by Mr. Gurney on
this subject, both in the metropolis and in mines in the
country, and up to this time he was not aware of any
serious practical objection that had been discovered. to
the application of hie plan to the removal of an evil which
affected i he lives of a great body of hi r Majesty's subjects.
Under these circumstances he felt that it would he m nst
desirable that some special publicity should he given to
the plan; and that if an inquiry mull be made into its
in, nts without involving any unnecessary expense it
would be very satisfactory.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE said, that the presumption
no doubt was that Mr. Gurney's invention was a most
valuable one ; but, whatever might be the actual case
with respect to that invention, he must say it was well
worth the while of Government to consider whether
the time had not arrived, and whether there was not
sufficient ground for their appointing inspectors of coal
mines.—(Hear, hear.) He conf -seed that he had at one
time entertained great doubts of the efficacy of such
appointments ; but there had of late been some useful
inquiries made at the instance of Government. and some
most valuable information laid upon their table wish re-
spect to such an arrangement, which had induced him
to change his mind. He found that in Belgium there
had, for years past, been Government inspectors, es-
tablished upon the best possible system, the inspectors
being able and competent officers, whose duty it was,
not to interpose their authority for the purpose of
controlling and directing those who were respon-
sible fur the management of the mines, but to assist
them with their advice as to the best possible means of
preventing catastrophes. And what had been the re-
sult? It appeared from the report of Mr. Seymour, one
of the inspectors under the Act for preventing young
persons working in mines, that since the period of the
appointment of inspectors in Belgium—although there
had been an increase of 20 per cent. in the amount of
coal produced, and an increase of 17 per cent. in the
number of persons employed in coal-mines—there had
been a decrease of 20 per cent. in the number of fatal
accidents.—(llear, hear.) Now, however effectual the
plan of Mr. Gurney might he for its own especial pur-
pose, viz., in creating a mechanical process for the ven-
tilation of mines, it was obvious they could not dis-
pense with the additional security of inspectors in order
to a-certain that it was prole-0y applied to all mines.
INCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND) BILL.
The order of the day having been read fur the second
reading of this Bill,
Lord BROUGHAM suggested the expediency of
that [louse
wwashoabhst Iti,elduitihhaepoiffioli;e,
postponing the second reeding till a future day. There
iw)
(p) persona r n
of ;1,4
'nom indispeisi;ion, and it was in vain. perhaps, to wait
till he wi.s able to be present; but there was another
absent, who would undeuhtedly have been present if he
had been aware that this Bill was cumin.. on that night,
and he (Lord Brougham) suggested, therefore, that it
would be more satisfactory to postpone the second read
ing till another day, in order to enable that Noble and
Learned Lord to be present
Lord CAMPBELL was understood to assent to the
proposed postponement.
lathe
Lord STANLEY remarked that it would save consi-
derable discussion on the second reading of this Bill if it
were previously referred to a Select Committee.
Lord CAMPBELL said, that if the principle of the
Bill were affirmed by the House, and if it were then
thought desirable to have some of the details more care-
fully considered, he would not object to its being cent to
a Select Committee; but, until that House had affirmed
the principle of the Bill—until he saw whether that
House agreed with the other House, where the Bill had
been carried by an overwhelming majority—until he saw
whether they agreed with the public, who were under.
stood to be generally favourable to the Bill, he could not
consent to send the Bill to is Select Committee.—(Hear.)
Lord MONTEAGLE wisheii to know what was the
principle of the Bill?—(Hear, hear.) If it was merely
that it was expedient to provide a better, cheaper, and
more equitable mode of effecting the transter of landed
property in Ireland, it was unnecessary to take up time
in discussing it, for that was a mere truism upon which
they all agreed; but if the principle of the Bill was that
the machinery therein specified was the best mode of
carrying out that object, then it was impossible the
House could affirm it without a discussion.—(Hear,
hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, that the hest
way of Noble Lords sati•fying themselves as to what
was the principle of the Bill would be to hear his Noble
and Learned Friend Bevel, p it, which he bad not yet
had an opp rtunity of doing. When he had so done it
would be for their Lordships to judge whether they
-resent to the principle as stated by his Noble and
Learned Friend, and give the Bill a second reading, re-
serving to themselves the power of afterwards saying
whether it was expedient to refer the details to a select
Committee.—(Hear, hear )
Lord CAMPBELL then rose to move the second
reading of this Bill. He said this was a most important
measure, and, he would allow, an atbitrary one, which
nothing but tre mentable state of property in Ireland
could justify. Unless such a treasure was adopted, the
consequences must be ruinous to that country. The
difficulties might have arisen from the imprudence of
the proprietors, but he thought it might be assigned with
greater justice to the defects of the law of real property
in that country. In England, when a party borrowed
money, he gave a particular portion of his property as
the security, and the remainder of his estates were free,
and were under his control; but in Ireland the custom
was to give the creditor a judgment deed, which ran over
the whole of his property, either in possession or in
which he might afterwards become entitled. This judg
ment would also be assigned to another party, and
when that was the case, it was almost impo-.
possible to know who the creditor was when
the owner wished to pay off the mortgage. They
had also in Ireland a system of registretion of deed.,
weich he hoped in time to see establiehed in this
coun-
try. At the same time it was better to have no registry
at all than a bed one. The registry they had in 'rebind
was a curse to that country, for the inforeestien it
afforded was altogether defective, only stating that a
deed had been entered into between the parties, and was
often made the means of great fraud. It was necessary
that all the parties interested in the prop, ley should re-
ceive notice; the consequence was, that the estate;
which were in chancery melted away. Sir Edward
Sugden told him that when a cause came on a number
of lawyers rose, who appeared for the parties, who had
nothing to do but to throw down each a brit f, which
Sir Edward Sugden compared to the bombardment of a
town.—(Laughter.) As soon as a judgment was ob-
tained in the courts in Ireland a receiver was ap-
pointed. In fact, the only thriving trade in Ireland was
that of the receiver. That being so, it became neces-
sary to have a tribunal other than the Court of (Than-

eery, and with that view this Bill had been prepared, of
which he had the most sanguine expectations of success.
The principle of the Bill was the appointment of
three Commissioners by the Crown, who were to act
in Ireland with all the powers of the Court of Chan-
cery„but without its delays and expense. There was a
power given to the incumbrancer or the owner tit apply
to the Commissioners. It was very important that dm
power should be given to the owner, as he could not now
sell without:the consent of the mortgagees and incum-
brancers, and it was most important that the mortgagee
should have the p to apply, as, from the badle•
nagement of the estates, the tenants often pay no rente
and he had no power to interfere, as the estates were in
the hands of receivers, who, ale), in their turn, had no
power to sell the property. All parties were, in fact,
now in a lamentable conditi,in, ene it was proposed to
give the Commissioners ample power to remedy the..e
evils, by sale of the property or otherwise, as might ap-
pear most profitable to all the interests concerned, and
give a Parliamentary title to purchasers. The great oh-
j-ct was to procure purchasers.—(Hear.) They could not
be found now, because they did not know upon what
they were to lay out their capital; but under this Bill
their title would bo safe. The Commissioners were to /ay
down rules, which were not to be acted upon till ap-
proved of by the Privy Council. There would also in
certain cases, where there might he reasonable cause for
doubt, be a power of appeal. To give a power of appeal
in all cases would render the Bill useless, The objection
was that it superseded the Court of Chancery; but it did
so only in cases in which it was found that the powers
of that tribunal were wholly useless. The Lord Chan•
cellor of Ireland approved highly of the measure. Then,
again, it was said that the Bill would be too extensive in
its operations; but there were incumbered estates in all
parts of that country, so that it would be impossible to
limit its operations within geographical boundaries. If
the owners of land in one district were to be benefited,
the owners of land in all districts should be entitled to
the like advantages. At present owners of land who
altempted sales of their property were exposed to ruin-
ous expenses. He hoped, therefore, that their Lord-
ships would concur with the other House of Parliament
in giviree their sanction to this measure. He moved that
the Bill be read a second time.
The Marquis of LANSDO WNE seconded the motion.
Lord BROUGHAM said that, in opp ts'ng the mo-
tion, he did not wish to be understood as wholly disap-
p,oving of the Bill, for he highly approved of its
principle. But he wished to throw out some suggestions
not of a hasty or iil•considil-td eature. That was ne-
cessary, for bail legislation wets worse than no legislation
at all, There were many points: in the worthy of
reconsideration. That was the opinion of the Law
Amendment Society, who had given much attention to
the sulakct, and, iiideed, who originally suggested the
principle of the measure.—(Hear, hear.) Ile himeclf
had great difficulles and doubts on the subject. His
Noble Friend (Lord Campbell) admitted with extraor•
(finery candour that it was a very arbitrary measure,
which it eould not be if it was only to gi, e a new direc-
tion to a p iwer already
in existence. The powers to be
given were indeed of a very novel character. Three com
missioners were to be invested with very large powers, and
if they were only to be invested with sufficient powers

to sell, what need was there of an Act of Parliament
for that purpose. Upon payment of the mortgages and
ineumbrances that could be done n.ttv. By the bye it
struck him that the reason why the Irish Members else-
where were so enamoured of this Bill wss, that s.,me-
body had been practising upon them by inducing them
to believe that they could sell their estates by this mi,a-
sure without. paying the incumbrauces on mort;:ages. If
so they were mightily mistaken. lii Learned Friend
said what they wanted was bidders for these estates.
No doubt it was, and his Noble and Learned Friend said
pass this Bill, and you will have plenty of bidders. It was
said the want of bidders arose from the deective state
of the law; it was no such thing; it was in canstquence
of agitation and the bad por law of that countr), that
they could not get bidders for property. If they had the
south as tranquil as the north, they would not want
bidders; and this was clear from the fact, that unincum-
bered estates cnuld not find bidders.—(Hear.) lie knew
that the judges in Ireland were opposed to this Bill, and
that was the reason why he should refer it to a Select
Committee. It he found that the Irish proprietors, judges,
and lawyers were favourable to it, he would not give
any strenuous opposition to the Bill; but he felt it his
duty as an English lawyer to state his opinion. If it
was referred to a Select Committee his objections might
be removed. His great objection was to collusive sales,
which might be obviated by limiting the sale to a de-
fined number of years' purchase.

The Earl of dLENGALL said he was opposed to
the principle of the Bill, which was a complete confisca-
tion and spoliation of property. He could believe that
Englishmen would vote for a Bill which was founded on
the principles of communism and socialism, He thought
that Louis Blanc, Mons. Considerant, and Mons. Prudhon
were the parties who should forgo the triumvii ate to
carry it into execution. There was nothing out confis-
cations in Ireland. There was no,secui ity for piopetty,
and therefore it was not improved Up to the year
1782 the Legislature had checked the manuactures
of Ireland, which were dearly destroyed. Trey
passed the poor-laws for Ireland, not to benefit the
Irish, but to prevent the poor of that country from
coming to this country ; arid now they pi r-
secuted the weakest party in Ireland —the laud-
lords, because they were unwilling to advance
money for the relief of the poor of Ireland. The
state of Ireland was brought about by the bad legislation
of this country. The system of judgments was moat in-
jurious. In consequence of the re acuce of not satisfy-
ing judgments which bad been entered up for &leis upon
the estates of the debtors, there was enormous expense
entailed upon parties. In one case lately that had came
under his notice there were 440 judgements not satisfied.
and when the ewe came into Court from the attorneys
riot satisfying the judgments, every one of these parties
had to be made parties to the suit, and the consequence
was an enormous amount of expense attendant upon
every step respecting the disposal of property. These
were evils that required a remedy. Another system,
that of the receivers, required notice. These receivers
had the entire management of the estates over which
they are appointed. Numerous tricks were played by
attorneys to get this appointment, and when they suc-
ceeded in this, oftentimes by procuring parties to commit
perjury. They then receive all the rents,
and are not obliged to account for them for a
period of fifteen months, by which time
he, makes a very handsome thing of it. They
had also great power over all tenants who were unable
to pay their rents, and the consequence was that great
injustice was often done to the tenant for the benefit of
the receiver. The whole of those evils he attrihuted
Pigott's Act, which he thought ought to be repealed, aid
things restored to the same state that they were in be-
fore. It was quite possible to alter this state or things
without acting so unconstitutionally as to appoint Com-
missioners. The masters in Chswely might be made
useful for this purpose, and by simplifying the process of
the courts of equity. and retracing the steps -taken in
bad legislation, a sufficient remedy might be applied
There was another most important subject. Were the-,e
triumvirs to sit in public? Was the press to be ao-
mitted? Were lawyers to be admitted to show up their
proceedings? Was the public to know anything respect-
ing proceedings for the sale of estet s till the decree
was fulminated in the Dublin Gazitte? He had not.
after inquiry, been able to ascertain whether this was
to be a secret tribunal, or in what manner their proceed-
ings were to be conducted. That was a most important
subject., and he wished some information upon it. The
great object of this Bill was to improve the west of Ire-
land, but he could affirm, from experience, that no ca-
pital or skill could permanently improve the lands in the
far west. He was perfectly convinced that these wild
speculators who expected to make fortunes by purchasing
these bogs and morasses, would be disappointed. He
hoped they would, for not being actuated by pure mo-
tives. He knew persons who had attempted the improve
went of portions of the soil, and after two or three years
they had to begin all over again. He thought this Bill
should not pass in its present form.
Lord BROUGHAM said he wished to know whether
the Commissioners were to proceed entirely by affidavit,
or by viva voce examination?
Lord CAMPBELL said it was left entirely in the dis-
cretion of the Commissioners. There were no rules in
the Bill. The Bill gave the Commissioners the power
to lay down rules of practice to guide their proceedings.
Lord MONTEAGLE said, the only answers they
could get upon points raised upon the Bill were, that the
Commissioners were vested with powers to deal with
them, so that the whole real property in Ireland would
be in the power of these Commissioners. Why, he
would ask, were they left in such a state as had been
described by his Noble Frieed. He approved of a short
mode of conveyance, but that was rej -cied when he sue-
gested it on another occasion. Teis Bill was to be tak n
in connexion with another in which new principles
were laid down, and which wale engrafted on this Bill.
The Bill to which he reierred was the Irish Poor-law
Amendment Act, by which guardians were appointed
upon the authority of the Crown, who had power to levy
rates and to incur debts. In that Bill there was a
power to appeal to the higher Courts, arid it was now
discovered that there was an incident to that power that
a fee simple could be sold for the payment cf the rates.
In Connaught there were miles of land left waste and
uncultivated, because the landlords would not undertake
the occupation because the rates were due of the tenants
who had abandoned the land. This Bill was to be taken
in connexion with that Act, and would enable the par-
ties to sell these estates for the payment of the poor-
rates. He would suggest, the introduction of a clause
for the protection of lands held jointly by two or more
proprietors. The great evil in Ireland was the superin-
tending power of the supreme court of equity. He oh-
, jeered to the time at which it was produced. If they
passed this Bill, it would be a declaration of war against
that class which was now most suffering.
The Earl of WICKLOW said the arguments which
he heard against the Bill, from N, ble Lords who had
spoken, were applicable to the Bill in Committee, but
did riot apply to the principle of the Bill which they had
now to consider. Ile thought the three Commissioners
would be much more cenap,lent to deal with the pro.
posed facilitating the sales of property than the Court of
Chancery in either country could be with so much other
bu.iness to transact. He bad been! nothing against the
principle of the Bill, nor anything urged to induce ban
to consent to a Committee, upstairs, but what might be
urged in favour of sending any Bill up stairs. One of
the reasons) urged for sending the Bill to the Committee
up stairs was, that it might be considered by Irish
lawyers, but he thought their Lordships quite as com-
petent to mike laws as lawyers, and the stoner the pre-
sent practice of leaving the making of laws to them was
ultereti the better. He was by no mains sanguine as to
any great effects that this Bill would produce. He be-
lieved that the panic that now existed, and in the inse-
curity at present felt, no class of purchasers would be
found. For the first two years he calculeted that these
Commissioners would have nothing to do but receive
their salaries; but that was no reason why the law should
not be atnended.—(A. laugh.) He had beard nothing'
against the...principle of the measure, and he was there-
fore entirely in its favour.
The Bill was then read a second time.
Lord CAMPBELL then moved that the Bill be com-
mitted.

Lord BROUGHAM said that, while he should do no-
thing to defeat the principle of the measure, he should
objtct to some of the details in Committee, such, for in-
' stance, as the preceding by affidavit. He wished that
the general rules to be made by the Commission should
be open to that House to ~bject within a limited period.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE would not object to
the motion of his Node k'rietidi-thlt the 13111 be referred
to a Select Committee, as its principle was adwit•ed. He
thought the points nuntion. d might be more conveni-
ently considered in a Select Committee up stairs than in
a Committee of the whole House.
Lord STANLEY said that they did not require that
the exceptional case which the Bill was required to meet
should not be carried further than the necessity of the
CUE, d,manded; but no powers should be given to the
Commissioners, unless the urgency of the case deinand,d
them. He had no desire to delay the measure unneces-
sarily.
The Bill was then ordered to be referred to a Select
Committee, to be nain!-d to-morrow.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COSI MONS, June 11.
The SPEAKER took the Chair a, Four o'clock.
NEW 111 EMBERS.
Sir DAVID DUNDAS took the oaths and his seat for
Sutherland:4llre.
Lord GUERNSEY took the oaths and his seat for South
Warwickshire.

THIRD READINGS.
passed:--
The following Bills were read a third time and
Wisbeach, Chatteris, Tid Gote, and Downham-bridge
Turnpike (Continuation of Act, Alteration of Provisions
relating to Repair of Waldorsey and South Side Banks,
Abandonment as to Turnpike of Ho id over same, Con-
struction of new Turnpike Road) Bill.
Great Yarmouth Haven Bridge and Navigation Im-
provement Bill.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORTS.
The reports on the following ails were considered and
agreed to:—

—Binbroeke St. Gabriel and Binbrooke St. May In-
closure (Amendment and Extension of Acts, Alteration
of Awar:ls, Settling Titles to Lauds, &c., and defining
Parish Bounitari:e) Bill.
Lanea.hire and Yorkshire and London and North
Western Railway Companies cfransfor of Interest in
the Preston and Wyre It-1;141ay Harbour and Di:ck, and
regulating Management of tin., Undnrtlkii.g) Bill.
Ren iow.hiro Justice of Peace. Courts
totoey and Sussex Roads (Amendment of Act and
Alteration of Tolls) Biil.
Westheatt's Patent (for Improvements in Manufactur-
ing Fur into Fabrics) Bill.
Mr. PATTEN moved that the report from the Com..
mitten on the Binbrooke St. Gabriel and Binbrooke Sr.
Mary Inclosure (Amendment and Extension of Act,
alteration of Awards, sealing of Tales to Lands, &c.,
and defining Parish Boundaries) Bill be now considered;
that the Bill be re-committed to the former Committee,

with leave to sit end proceed to-morrow, notwithstsehe
in.; three clear day,' notice Las not been give" °I
meeting of the Committee. —Agrced to.
PE I'ITIONS.
Mr. P. WESTJIEAIt presented a petition from lib. 9
Wesleyan& of York in favour of the Clergy Relicf r.
Sever,l petitions were presented iu favour of lute
natiend arbitration.
Mr. LOCH presented a petition from a place in Sent'
land, praying for au alteration of the excise Jae's.
Mr. F. MAULE prose wed a petition from the Gene.
1.41 Assembly of the Free C:iurch of Scotland, nAtlins..
the Test Acts in the ScAtisii unieersicies;
from the same body against the Marriage
air T. BIRCH presented a petition from Liverpoo-
-1
praying fur a repeal ut the Excise duties, and the sew
stituden of's, me other mode of taxation. • for
Mr. W. PAT I'EN presented a petition praYloa
the abolition of the Excise duty on paper. in
Mr. BANKES presented a petition from a Placets.
Dorsetshire praying for the extension of county ne°'
Mr. E. DENISON presented a petition to the sam
t fleet.
5160 a petition
•
Lord DUDLEY STUART presented a petition to
the same street.
Mr. COBDEN presented several petitions in..(o°lll.
of internacional arbitration.
Sir C. LEMON presented a petition to the some ‘l4l
;row Penz ince.
rgh
Mr COWAN presented a petition from Bili• nbu.ll3
praying tor alterations in the Scotch health of 1°-
13th.
S,r R. H. INGLIS prevented a petition from is Pittc.
in Wlirwick,hire neeinst the Marrimge Bill.
DUBLIN IMPROVEMENT BILL. to
Sir W. SOM ERV I LLE moved that this Bill be
a second time to-100
Mr. GROGAN asked for a delay till Friday. re.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE could not accede to the
quest.
The motion was accordingly agreed to.
COMMON LAW COURTS. of
Mr. BREMBIDGE moved an address for retisiecl
the number of catis,s entered ter tind in Lundt'°„-tee
aitictellesex, in each year during the last ten yearstlcbe•
Courts of Queen's Bench, Common Pleas, andse
quer, with the number of reinauets left at tbe e
the
Of each sating in each Court; also, 13` i%4
number of causes entered for trial at each .sessi;cl
in each circuit, during the last ten yeal*Adre,s
the Lumber of rematiets left ut each assize ; also,
ng
for Returns of the names and residences ut all 0041: its
justices of the peace for counties, cities, and borougm"o
England and Walt a, and of the year in which each "ie
sworn in ; also, of all the stipendiary magistrates
England and Wales, with the dates of their appoieuile-
n
and salaries.

VENTILATION OF MINES. "tot
Mr. T. DUNt.;OMBE brought in a Bill for the "4"
ventilation of mines, which was read a first time. IN
DISTRESS AMONG THE LANDOWNER'

IRELAND.
Mr. P. SCROPE presented a petition from Bevetbe
owners of land in Ireland stating that they were 113
greatest distress, that they could obtain no Precefiye
from their to operty, that they were now obliged t0,,,i9
upon shell fish awl such other edible substances as
could gather on the coast, and praying for a relief 'iv
the paps:eat of their rates.
PRIVILEGE OF PARLIAMENT. All
•
Mr. J. O'CONNELL, amid roars of laughter from -0.
sides of the House, begged to give notice that.' uhe
Thursday next, he would move for a reps- °era
siandiug order of the House which excluded t-tran" ei
from the galleries of the House during the deht",e'r, 0
being unwise and unnecessary in theory and fic't
practice.—(The. Hon. Member carried up the 131-t-ibe
motion'to the table, and was again greeted wit' -
laughter of Members throughout the House.)
FRENCH INTERVENTION AT ROME' „h be
Mr. HUME wished to ask the question of whr-5,
had given notice, but not seeing the NotJe Lord "'ea it
cretary for Foreign Affairs in bis place, he would Pilo
to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government* 00;
question which he wished to ask had reference to
the
affairs of Rome. He saw that by the Message 00
President of the French Republic that the intern n ° the
of the French with the Republic of Rome hauficro
countenance of the British Government. If this;cro'
so he deemed it to be very objectionable. The u,°'
Plea
went of France rested upon the opinion of the rijosi
Our own Government also derived its power tree
the people. He wished to know whether it W 0 the
that this intervention derived any countenance front
British Government?—(Bear, hear.) • ea 130
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he had reel/ coo'
notice respecting this question, but he certainlepcob
eeived that the Message of the President of the certainly,
Republic was not at all liable to the constructioVi.ol
the Hun. Member had put upon it. Ile (I'°f" hied
Russell) understuod the President to say, that gogne
and France were on the best or terms, which was..s,7o 10
(Loud-and repeated cheers)—but with the extvilitne-sted
R-Ane we were in. no way oomplicated.--(tnecrndu
cheers.) The French. Government had sent
.10 Li---tbeir
the opinion of her Majesty's Jlinisters. and as to
fz el'
sending an agent to Rome, and no opinion bad bee, er
pry seed against such a step, but with respect to th
petition, with that, be repeated, they were in LIO
complicated.—(Renewed loud cheers.)
BANKRUPTCY BILL. tiOl;
In reply to a question from Mr. S I DART, respec ire ,
the intention of the Government to proceed at Cabe 11. hn
the Bankruptcy Bill, which had' been eut down 11.°4
the House of Lords on Friday feo
had been considered for two sessions, with the cotor
ai
approbation of the Lord Chancellor, and other gee
legal authorities in the House of Lords,
and which he
ij 00$
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that though he vrots-i de.
commit iiiins.elt at once to so many and complicateuadJ,
tails, he would proceed as soon as possible with the
and hoped to see the measure become law this sessloll'
CANADA. poll
Mr. BERRIES said Earl Grey had stated• jeti;
to Lord Brougham, that all the information whie",peCt
been received by the Government with rAc:,sor
to the proceedings of the Legislative i'Mhe
b'y in Canada had been delivered frotgbot
Canadian newspapers; and he wished to know w,"- cor
the Government were in the possession of any i
leg
official communication from Lord Elgin co ur.rc of
those newspaper accounts, or *ere in the posses°l-000
any other information on the subject which the./ c
lay before the House? ,1 Witt;
Lord J. RUSSELL said he was not acquainN--, bat
what transpired in the other House of ParlianiellAcon
what he uouerstood was this, that Lord Elgin bau„;es °I
generally requested to transmit to this country cr-crir
Catrad:an newspapers containirg
ceedings in the 14, gislative Assembly, Those re' ivite
been received without,- however, any offichil or P,.r„roei
an account of tPert'bol
information from Lord El in concerning the se-0 be
of the accounts; and under those circurnstlicee
tole
should certainly not be a party to laying on the coo'
of the House a whole fib. of Canadian newspoPerisileor.)
taining a great mass of debates and proceediu4s,--k
AL
FRENCH INTERVEN LION IN THE
STATE,

_
Mr. HUME said, the Noble Lerd the Secretslit He
Foreign Attairs had stated on a former occa,iou trsior
hail received a communication from the French
..,P,rl,idet
with reference to the expedition to Civita IL" sof
end he wished now to ask him whether that ieclue7,4o
rtference to the march of the French army toes be
Heine; and also it he thought it fit to stater what"o the
approved or disapproved of that proceeding epnw the
part of the Freech, and what answer he gave
communication?
ia Lord PALMERSTON said he received the Commbst
cation. With reference to Civita Vecchia in ".`!) eofro the,
er December last, but no mention was made in l'
ulterior proceedings which were contemplated by thib
expedition. 'The answer which he gave to it was pro'
that it was not for them to judge of 111.1,11 ag
ceedings of the French Government; ,"—trisel
theirtbboye
thwdaievpeel
nboimprit hianvet
er:wnipaaeteetarhnve:ilb, differences
r; get:
understandingiitn; bjt.hcatt that;bei
between
etbneer itriaaor;: -:ol3Litt:cp.bot.:
his subjects, by which the Pope should secure, sere
Roman poopls those constitutional collet ssions h
granted last year, and that there should be a prie. IsP t
h-
and real separation between the temporal and
ritual suttiority.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hvar.9hetber
Mr. HUME said he heirly wished to know w'f the
the communication stated that it was the intention -
French army to take possession of Reece, -fog
Lord PALMERSTON said he had received no
to
'nation to that eff-et. thl
Mr. J. O'CONNELL wished to know whetherh
reply was quite consistent with the principle "ic of
been professed, not to intermeddle with the affal
foreign countries? And also, whether there vitt:f bfo
degree of alarm as to the sincerity on the part
Holiness the Pope?—(Oh, oh! ) d .061°'
Lord PALMERSTON said he had receive- ,ocer
timid from various continental States, that theiricins to s$
relic., in the negotiations about to be entered
Civita Vecchia would be well received.
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL—Where from? „jolt*
Lord PALMERSI ON—From Austria, 'is nal
France, and the Nuncio Paris.—(Laughter.) yori,
intimated to the Nuncio by Lord Normanby. at GO;
that there would be no interference, by her Mtiv,vl)beer°'
vernm, nt, between the Pope and his subjects.--j
THE RECTORY OF BISHOPSWEARMu,„.
In answer to st question from Mr. HORSM4'„'IJ be
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it Ivtiee
oa
highly improper to bestow any professional ewb-ee be
that subject; but if the Hon. Member asked whet to the
(the Attorney-General) had made up his mind 05 he
powers of the Commissioners, he had only to 511
had.—(Laughter.) the
Mr. HOUSMAN would ask the Noble Lord "10'0
head of the Government whether the arrangernen'ia 101
respect to the rectory of Bishopswearmoutb w°Atio;
carried out by an order in Council, or by an
Parliament ? a the
L trd JQIIN RUSSELL—I have not yet receive )
opinion of our Attorney-General.—(Loud laughter'
CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL. the
Mr. SPOONER asked the Solicitor-General when
Ch,ritable Trust-4 Bill would be brought forward! oite
Tee SOLICITOR-GENERAL could give no ds
answer; that would depend on circumstances.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
f
Mr. DISRAELI gave notice that on Thurtaild e,,,
would tn-..ke inquiry of the Noble Lord at the Ttiel'"
the Goverreeen: as to the probable ruutine r
business during the se,stote
PARLIAMEN rARY OATHS BILE. .6
On the motion ot Lord J. RUSSELL, that 01
be read a third time,
_A third
Mr. LAW rose to move that the Bill be rent. °of ;be
time this day six months. The opening sentences from
Ho. Members speech were wholly inaudibelenotoe;
the noise occAsioned by Members leaving th jeo
The main obj-ct of the Bill wabs admission (1 ohjeci
into a Christi.n legiAlatute 0
; but the real to
„t the BA wes nut 'eaten until
..oey clOl ~t.
the latter clauses of the Bill—which s.• tbiN
very abort one. He objected to the tenor of Sl'