The Sun.
London, England, 1809-05-31 00:00:00

reportartade to Lord Annestey j nor was it
,i4tvereitted.. The report affeeted a. Mr. Hevittion,
sez3s teede- to L trdDoeoughtnore, and aeted upon to
she
.ei.tnissal at the offender. He 'concluded by
considering the inform :Mint given against I`,lr. Flill,
snielieg,hiin out from all others, as proceeding tlotu
motives and false In itself.
Mt. lie I CHlNtiabt explained, as did Mr. Ctioxik
:led Mr. ku,1•1311. '
Moonii supported the original • rno.
tirin.--„HeAtiveighed, against the general system or
eorteption whice appeared to have prevailed, and
which tended to detraud, . the Revenue, as appeared
from :.he report, to the amount of ,8.0,0001.
ata-
•ureilly.
Mr Domes remarked, that it had escaped the
Honourable Gentleman's observation, that a re-
medy had. been
.applied to these evils within three
mew l's after the Report of- the Committee made
them known to Government.. He appteliended that
tisi,; motion was -seleeling a particular ease from all.
predicaMent, and making an ex-
ample of an individual, which was invidious and
uejest.
S:r S. ROMILLY animadverted on what had fallen
from Mr. Cruker, who, without any expression of
indignation from those around him, had maintained
that an officer ol the Revenue in Ireland, because
his salary was too limited, was emitted to commit
'every kind of. Wed and crime, and to take bribes to
connive at the defrauding of the revenue. Such a
defence would -leave little weight in the ease of a
poor fellow tried at the Old Bailey for taking cloat hes
or money for !Anuvil or family.
(ItOKKII explained.
The CilitlictsLLOß of the. Excuag.vitts denied the
assumption made by. Sir S. Rotnilly, and thought
the bare supposition-that any person could defend a
general principle, such as he alluded to, v'vas an out -
rage to sense. The -,anly error that appeared to him
to have been committed in this case was in passing
-an Ad of Parliament to make the taking of these
fees,a meidemeanour two months before their loss
was iellicalud. by an increase of salary. The only
course that could have. been taken, w hen this first
Act was broken through and tees receised, would
have been to dismiss every Officer of Excise in Ire-
, l Woruld this have been a prudent, wise, or
proper nwasute ?--- Them it would have been to
the' oss of two or three years revenue in Ireland.
if they were not all dismissed, then thoseiprornoted
must be taken from the persons continuing iii office.
Thus the' question was pat to be restricted to this in-
-4.lividual, but priperlyveght to have been a censure
the Go`vermnent of the time for not removing
eVrlyollif.r. On .the f(e considerations, he trusted,
the House: would vote tor the previous.questien.
Mr, kionNea supported the original motion, and
• defined the difference between taking etbtoin.
house fees for .the performance of a legal duty,: and
taking arti, les to. vottua+ai at illegal frauds. He con-
sidered the defence adoped in the present instauteas
a most unelushiug amid tar currupti,on. •
Sir Ne..w voter replied 7—. He teontradizled in-sothe
degree the statement at Mr. Ctoker avith respect to
Mr. not being the 'Supervisor of Rossmay
when the watt, was suppressed. He was the
officer tat that time, and- only abstett on leave; while
hAvsoty wai,i;rp-,s4pervisur. As the papers relating
to this letd been atistraded ftuni the office •01 Lord
Douunglutioro in a surreptitious minaret*, are tact
tVuld not be ascertains d, but be bad a fairground
of suspicion, that though Mr. Hill was not pice4ent,
he was, not innocent of the fraud. He denied all,
knowledge of any of the parties, arid ,ureniioned that
Leis
.fiist 'okra-union „on the subject was obtained
from an 4110:1“pous let ter., ,
_ BAIIkIAM spoke in favour of . the motion,
which) lie ihatight ought at this period of suspicion
to be agreed tei to convince . the eeeple that the
House IA
.Coannonc did n abet corruption.
he House then dividecte7e- •
For the original inetion 50
Fur the previoos wrestle() , - • . is .
Majority against the mutton r--27.
•
Oa our re.admission Mr. WintattaAn was bn.
his legs, thuiing tar certain papers, ,which were
granted.

. I •
..,
distre!ise3, they had presumed to 'cart for spine re-
medy, Mani tested no_sy lulu otus of disatiea ion . `'Tit
circninstatice gave them a claim on thegratitude and
generaitty of Parliament. Nothing but a commuta-
tion ot tithes would produce the wished fOr effect
and that while it lightened thii burdens.of the peo-
ple, tvold.l prove ben?.ficial ttithe established clitirell.

. .
Mr. it. bosn'as explained.
lilr.Ropisotsav said, eta the last Session the Chan-
cellor of :the Excheqeer had sp.dken as if he had a
Bill in preparation, the operation of which was to
do away the, evil, This Session, it appeared, he
had.no such measure to propose. His Hun. Friend's •
motion was disposed of a short time ago, because
they wanted information,- and now his Friend pro-
posed making an inquiry, no information was .want-
ed. He then spoke in forcible terms of the ne-
cessity of making an inquiry, and the danger of de-
ferring the period for making that inquiry. They •
admitted the necessity of gaining information, but
told his Hon. Friend the mode he proposed was so
absurd, that no step whatever should be taken to
obtain that information. He hoped his I-lon. Friend
would take the sense of the House on the question,
and Should his Motion be lost, that he would not
let another SeSsion pass without again bridging it
• forward. He thought the measure•judicious, and
that every one must acknowledge it temperate; and
concluded, expressing a hope that those repeated
motions. would ultimately coiorel his Majesty's MI-.
miters to give the subject that attention it so itupe-.
riously called for. •
,Mr. GRATTAN thought as both sides of the House
were of opinion that' a something should be done, •
he did not think the addreits of-11-mA consequeece.
—He regretted the difficulty of procuring a faithful
report of the state of the country ; made a tew oh-
seivations on the proposed address, to some part el
which he objected, .and• concluded, wishing the
Hon. Gentleman to:bring the subjed, forward ag.iin
in the ensuing Session (whatever might be the tate
of his present (notion), by moving for a Committee
to investigate the whole of the circurnsianc,A.
The eIIANCELLOR of the Exonecin Lit said,,he
did. not think the difficulty at ail arose from the
House being ignorant of the manneflin, which tithes
were levied in Irelondi' but from the difficulty of
finding any other way to secure the prO' merty of the
Church ; none of the expedients they had yet thought
ot, were such as to obvinte-the evil, or do away the
difficulty. He did not know, that. the Hon. Gen-
tleman's motion was 'negnived because tat House
Were in want of intorrnattoot he thought it was'
because rho measure be proposed sya* nut pea ie able.
He bak; stated in the last Session7that,be ,would, give
the subject his attention ; he did se Ile patu all the
attllSiC)ll lit; could to. t he.snbjett,.,nut: bound the
difficulties so great that lie was at length obliged rel.
'W.L:44Oy to abandon it. Wished a remedy de-
vised effeatuaily td do away the evil, but to •launch
an inquiry into that of which they were lot ignorant,
when nll.thq wanted to discever was .the means of
, • putting a stop to the cause of cotuplaint,, ought • not
• to he
,thcoght of, as an itejuiry set ;on-fout.withuut
such an object being its view, he.thought,,weuld be
%Yost: than nugatory. The Hon
,Gentleman who
spoke, last thought nothing very ,satistaCtory could
be expected trout the Atkire,s, that he thought; a
strong argument against time motion, and trusted the
House would not give their sanction to such inquiry.
, Sir Jonsr Nawrceur said, whatever the Right
kiwi. Gentleman night think, many members, of
that ,House were touchin want at information. 'on
the subject. He thee spoke of the necessity of as-
certaining the extent of the evil, in order, to be able
tU proviuc a remedy. Without such informai ion flee
majority of that House cupid nut decide on the me-
rits of the question. A Nettle Lord ha.d forgotten
-the advantages he held out to the people of Ireland.
at ,the time of
,the union...-. A moddication of the.
tithes system had then been promised. The Noble'
did not target pledges of a private nature, but his
pledges to the public were forgutteo. A great States-
man, now no more; who then presided at .the head
or Iffairs had, given them such a promise. Time
Gentlemen opposite-Considered themselves as Iris sue-
cessos, it they were such, they, ought then to come
forward and make good.his engageuient. Failing to
do that, they, • altould never again presume to call
themselves the successors of that great ,man.
Lord QASTIAURAGH MO,t distinctly denied that
any such pledge had been given as taut, which the
Hun. Bat onet in the lack of, argument stated him to
-hat e
Mr. HUTCUZNsON charged Use Nuble Lord with
having betrayed and cpjuled'the people of Ireland:
What could' he imagine 'posterity would think of
L'his political ermciplesur private virtues ?
Thu SPEAKER thought it hardly necessary for him
to tell
.the,Hoo. Member, that in speaking of
,the
Noble Lord's private character he wits out of order.
▪ fiuTcuiNidN apologised to the Chair, but he
charged the Noble .Lurd with. having
..lietrayed leis
,oust as a public .man. No one et. the' expectations
' excised in Ireland -had been realized ; but eves vt
e'onsideruble maguitude had •lollowed the Union.
He pxhorted Ministers to conciliate the people of
Ireland,,lest the next change should be mote fatal
than the last. -The motion he t honglit perfectly Tee-
senable, and trustLll it would be a‘ceded to.
• After a few words from a Mentber, whose name
we Could nut learn--

Mr. PAItZi [IL 1,, in a short reply, said, he. under,,
stood his motion was opposed, because the House
wanted information pn the subject, but it now ap-
peared no such information was,wantiog.
lutertd-
at he did to bring-the subject forward nem des--
siOn, he wished the tiouserto remember, :that it had
been stated no previous inquiry was necessary, that
that might not be Made a pretest tor again putting
it off. fie.wished the House seriously' . consider
on whit they were about to decide ; petitions were
laying on. their. table complaining of the present
mode of levying tithes, he wished them web to re-
flea to what answer the petitioners wer6 entitled.
A division then took place, when there appeared—
For the Motion • • 76
A(4,.in;t it - 147
c
Majority . —.-7

_
While stran4ers were excluded, we understood
that the Commtttee on Mr. Curwen's Bill was post-
poned till Tltursday.
• • MEDICAL DEPARTMENT.

Upon our re-adwission, we found Mr: WARDLE
upon his .legs, in consequence of his nOtice at a fur-