The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-26 00:00:00

VIE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 1836.

uniform and cheap management.—( Hear; hear.) If t
would be the Whet, he would be the last person to give any ,
opposition to such a suggestion. tut when, from an inspec-
tion of the Bill, from a local knowledge'df the facts, and a long
residence in the district; he was Satisfied; and Wised the House
also would be satisfied that it wotild not hive that effect, but
that it would hive the, effect of creating an equal mimber xsf
Committees as they were called--.that,the eipensive machi-
nery would not be saved—and that the goternment,
parith wtAild lid iiiadeisi hi the bands or persons less qiialified
by knowledge and 72neef that satisfaction which it
was desirable for this purpose to give. The present Board
consisted of the most respectable inhabitants within
the district, and there was not a single petition complaining 1
of abuse or malversation against any of them.—( Hear, hear.)
In point of fact, they had conducted the affairs of the parish
with the greatest possible economy, and that the inhabitants
(and he was sure he spoke the sentiments of a large majority
of them) were satisfied, and viewed with great jealousy and dis-
trust the transfer of a power now vested in themselves, to al
vestry composed nominally of 120 members, but 60 of whom
duly attended, and were constantly in a state of civil war— I
(Hear and laughter)—and constantly exciting angry feelings '
over the parish. He had no hesitation in saying that the per-
sons who promoted this Bill had not the confidence of the ,
great majority of the inhabitants of the parish. It was quite a
delusion to suppose that one Board could manage the affairs of
the parish in a manner better than at present ; and it should
be recollected that within St. Pancras there are several towns,
Camden Town, &c., containing a population of one hundred
thousand souls, and an extent of district of about twenty miles,
all in the habit of confiding in the present managers of the
affairs of the district. As to the regulation of the Squares
and Crescents, the new plan would be attended with consi-
derable inconvenience and expense. ,At present every
inhabitant freely and voluntarily taxed themselves, and
raised the rate according to their own wishes.—( Hear.) By
the new arrangement, the vestry would have to decide what
might be intended for pleasure, and what for utility. The
proposed Bill enacted, that there should be several garden
and square committees, with a variety of officers, clerks, sala-
ries, and expenses, all calculated to create patronage, which
was the object of those who brought the measure forward.
The present vestry consisted of 120 persons nominally, but
really of only 60, that being the number in the habit of attend-
ing, and they were in the habit of quarrelling among themselves.
There was no ground on which to rest the proposed change,
unless that the affairs of Marylebone parish were all under one
tninagements He had no wish to speak disrespectfully of the
persons in Marylebone, but it should be remembered that that
ictrlct was only six or seven miles in extent, while that of St.
Pancras was over seventeen. The interest, too, of money
raised in that parish was only four and a seventh, while in
Marylebone they have not been able to reduce it less than
four and a half, and yet it appeared that with their various
Boards they were able to go on at a cheaper rate than Mary-
lebone. He hoped the House would not depart from the prin-
ciple which had ever regulated their proceedings, of not sanc-
tioning any change, unless it was called for by the imperative
circumstances of the case before them.
Mr. HUME was sorry to find his Honourable Friend
the Member for Truro, who had been hitherto a reformer, turn
round from his principles, and agree with those on the other
side of the HOuse in resisting a desirable change. But
his statements were altogether inconsistent with facts, for in
the first place he said Pancras was more populous than Mary-
lebone, while it appeared that in the latter there were 122,000
inhabitants, and in the former only 103,000. The vestrymen
were, he should have stated, all elected by the votes of their
fellow parishioners who were subject to the payment of rates.
The fact was that so far from the parochial business of Mary-
lebone being more expensive, they had reduced it from
150,000/. down to 85,000/. a-year. It was to be placed under
the same kind of elective management that the petitioners now
sought. The House should bear in mind that the parish of
St. Pancras, occupying a large space of ground, had different
acts for paving and lighting different portions of
,the parish,
and the consequence was that in some portions there were no
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He time,e submitted
these different trusts should be consolidated, and he asked of the
House to grant that boon to the ratepayers of St. Pancras. Those
at present existing were self-elected, and the ratepayers had
no control over them. It was most essential to the welfare of
the parish that the management of its funds should be taken
out of the hauds of these self-elected coteries.—( Hear, hear.)
The House would, he was sure, believe him when he stated,
that the expense occasioned by these 19 trusts, was 6,0001. a
year, although one-fourth of that sum would be amply suffi-
cient under a different management. The debt of the parish
of Pancras was 112,0001., while that of Marylebone was only
27,0001., and the rate-payers of the former parish sought to
have their affairs placed under a similar management.—
He would put it to the Hon. Members opposite, whether
such a uniform establishment would not be better than nine-
teen different self-elected trusts. He was not aware that the
Bill would militate against the interests of any individuals ;
but if it did, he was satisfied that they would be fully considered
and protected in the Committee, and under all these circum-
stances, he hoped the House would allow the Bill to pass.
Mr. WILKES would not allow himself to be intimidated
by the phantom of a name—( Opposition cheers.) He would
not be led away by the arguments of the Hon. Member for
Middlesex, although he would maintain that he was as strenu-
ous and consistent an advocate for constitutional and prac-
tical Reform as that Honourable Member.—(Hear, hear.)
He, for one, would never yield to factious clamour in giving
his support or his opposition to any measure.—(Hear.) The
House should bear in mind that the parties appealing to the
House were the vestry of the parish of St. Pancras, who were
their own panegyrists.—(Hear, hear.) They bad already
made two applications to that House, and they had done
that which if it was not printed, and upon incontrovertible evi-
dence, could scarce be believed—they had out of the poor rates
of the parish twice paid the expenses of their ineffectual ap-
plications. He (Mr. W.) would not place additional funds at
the disposal of a body who had made so bad a use of them.
The rate for lighting and paving the parish of St. Pancras
was one shilling in the pound. The lighting and watching of
Marylebone cost IL 18s. a house, while the lighting and
watching of St. Pancras cost but 1/. 7s. He trusted the
House would mark their opinion by such a majority as
would prevent a repetition of the question.
Sir SAMUEL WHALLEY said the consolidation of the
Boards would be a diminution of the expense. From the
noise which pervaded the House the remainder of the Hon.
Member's observations were inaudible in the gallery.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, when there
appc ared—
For the second reading 133
Against it
Majority for the second reading --- 6
The Bill was then read a second time.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from thbrilge, in
favour of the Bill for compensating Mr. Bnckingham. He
regretted the division of Tuesday night, for he fully believed that
the Honourable Gentleman had a good claim to com-
pensation. The Hon. Member also presented a petition from
Marlborough, complaining of intimidation andlindue influence
having been used by the agents of the Earl of Aylesbury, at
the late election in that town, praying the House to take some
measures for their protection. —Referred to the Intimidation
Committee. Also, one from Paisley, in favour of the Public
Walks' Bill.

into the workhouse.—( Hear, hear.) She declared she
could maintain herself ; but though she was the wife of a
person who was sentenced to transportation, and therefore
claimed to be considered a married woman, the magistrates
held her to be liable for the iriaintenance of the children of
her hitsbaridi She *as brought before the Magistrates as an
idle and disorderly person; and committed for twenty- dayi to
the Houle of correction: A short tinge after the.etplration
of this period another .warrant Was issued, and she was
biotietit feta:tided: the Stated that a
petition was getting up !..1 12er fav(tif. Bfid vidilld pireiented
::,7use, and on that account the Magistratel
to that
hearing the case. .7t I.lowever, applied, to the Poor Law
Commissioner, as to whether A second committee would be
advisable, and he advised them that a man beyond sea, whether
for 7, 14, or 21 years, was to be considered as civilly dead,
and that therefore this woman was liable for the maintenance
of the children of such a man, and was liable to be committed
as an idle and disorderly person. No deposition had been
taken' to show that this woman was able to maintain these
children, but the act required that steps should be taken to
prove this. In this case the husband was absent without the
consent of the petitioner, and, hi point of law and justice, he
thought the wife should not be called upon to support the
children of the husband. It was a hardship that she should
be bound to support the children, when, but for the state of
the law. she could obtain a good and willing mart of her own.
He had carefully examined the Act M Ilarliaarenti- and he
was at a loss to know whether this woman wal to he called
a femme sofa or n,fetnnic couvert. This womanhad no reined), at
law foi the wrong she had supposed, and he trusted the Hous4
would give directions to the magistrates to prevent a repetition
of a similar act.
Mr. FAUX MAUL thought that the petition stioiiid not
be entertained, inasmuch as there was a tribunal in existence
to which it ought more properly be referred. He could only
say if the petition was placed in his hands, he could promise
that every attention would be paid to them.—( Hear, hear.)
Major BEA UCLERK thought if this was the law, it was
a most atrocious one, and called for the immediate inter-
ference of the Legislature,— ( Hear.):ln the Case now before
the House a poor unfortunate wemau *as punished for the crime
of her husband. If that was the case, it was not justice.
The Poor Law Commissioners were bound W ad all in their
power to remedy those evils, and he thought it their ditty to
come forward and propose a measure on the subject. The
Poor Law Bill might be made a great benefit to the country if
it was carried on fairly.
Mr. CURTE IS supported the prayer of the petition. He
hoped the Government would take the matter under its serious
/consideration. It was the bounden duty of the Government
to have a legal opinion whether the Poor Law Commissioners
were right or wrong in committing the poor woman.
Captain PECHELL was satisfied the Government would
stay proceedings in this case until the opinion of the law offi-
cers of the Crown was obtained.
ORANGE LODGES. _

Colonel MAXWELL said that he vas desired by his
Royal Highness to state to the House, that In conse-
quence of his Majesty's wish expressed in answer to the
address of the HoUse of Commons, his Royal Highness
had already taken steps, in concurrence with all the leading
Members of the Orange Societies, to recommend to them the
dissolution of the Society. He was therefore directed by his
Royal Highness that it is' intended immediately to take steps
for the dissolution of the Orange Societies in Great Britain
and the colonies.—( Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that be had the honour this
morning of transmitting to his Royal Highness a copy of
the votes of that House, containing the adddress of that
House, and also the answer of his Majesty thereto, in answer
to which he had received the following reply :—" St. James's
Palace, Feb. 26, 1836.—My Lord, I have received your
Lordship's letter, with the copy of the resolutions of the House
of Commons on the subject of Orange Lodges, together with
his Majesty's gracious answer thereto. Before I received your
Lordship's communication; I had already taken steps with se-
veral influential Members to recommend their immediate dis-
solution. In conformity with the wish expressed by his Ma-
jesty, I shall take all legal steps to dissolc Orange Lodges.—
( Cheers.).