The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-04 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

The battle now rages in the House of Peers, after it has been
decided in the country. If the Tories succeed in rejecting this
Bill. they reject also the facts and reasonings on the strength of
which it has been passed by the House of Commons, and ac-
cepted by the country without a dissenting voice. They fling
aside the fact, that seventy-six English county Me/when have
voted for the Bill, and only six against it : that of all those seven-
teen leading counties, and twenty-two principal cities and bo.
roughs, which from their importance or the popularity of theix
•
tirsqiCinetitraftOlrellill'ln7f Well by preseWag a bare ma.
jority of Members in its favour, satisfied Sir Robert Peel that the
measure ought to be adopted, not one on this occasion has yielded
a single voice in opposition to the Reform B 11, but are all una-
nimous in supporting it! Where, then, is the consistency of
Sir Robert Peel and of those who are ruled by his suggestions, if
unanimity will not influence them, either without doors among
the people, or within door.; when exhibited by all those Members
of Parliament, with scarcely an exception, who really repre-
sent the people ? Lord Grey introduced the second reading of
the Bill last night by a grave, dignified, earnest, and impressive
speech, which will be perused with profound interest. It was a
model of luminous statement and calm reasoning : it was the
produce ofa whole .life's observation on the most momentous
subject that can Agitate the British state. It omitted hardly any
thing that could be said to constitute, the ratioqiiir of the question
of Reform, and was concluded by a powerful appeal to history for
evidence of the evils resulting from a refusal of timely concession
to the steadfast demands of a whole people. Indeed, the Spanish
Netherlands, the head of Charles 1., the crown of James 11., the
loss of fir:i4ll America, the extinction of the old French mo-
narchy under Louis ,17.1" 1., the extinction of the restored French
monarchy under Charles X., and the litter sweeping off of the
French nobility as a power in the State,—all these are pretty
solid proofs how much wisdom there is in a stubborn repugnance
towards the fixed desires and necessities of a concurrent nation ;
God grant that they may operate as warnings upon the body to
which the Prime Miedster of England addressed them that our
Peers and Bishops of the year Ig:1l may not hereafter serve to
"point the moral" of neglected common sense, or to " adorn
the tale" of a self-ruined Aristocracy. Lord Grey's impressive
appeal to the Bishops will, we trust, have a proper effect. The
Bishop of Lodon—perhaps the most able and long-sighted
Prelate of his order; and one who loves the Church discreetly as
well as honestly—gives Ms proxy, we hear, in favour of the
second reading. By what that is held Temst sacred in their esti-
mation—by what shall we adjure his brethren to follow the ex-
ample of this rational and discriminating Prelate ? As lovers of
peace. ivy beseech them to look round, and watch the threaten.
ings of this pregnant hour; as lovers of this world—if there be
such amongst them—Ace tell them that the more exalted stations
on the Bench will and must be recruited from the yet un-
mitred clergy, in default of those wne etieuld dgsort the
Throne in its emergency, and the people in their appeal for
justice. Lord Grey has declared once more that he will
" stand or fail I,y the Bill—that he will never attempt
such a fraud upon thi nation, as to offer it a less com-
plete Reform—and that Hot Hiltil he sees that there
is no fair prospect of carrying this measure, unsimrn pf any of
its man principles, into execution, will he resign his office. The
obvious weaning of which latter part of the declaration is, that
if the Bill should now be lost, he will propose to his Majesty that
a sufficient number of leers shall be created to carry this Bill in
a speedily ensuing Session ; and that if such a reasonable re.
quest be negatived.—a supposition which the manly, firm, and
sinpare character of the Sovereign forbids us to entertain for one
moment,-- then, and not till then, will the Reforming Prime
Minister find hirn,.glf hound in conscience to retire. We have
not room now for any l'usther notice of the debate, but there are
some symptoms not unfavourable ia the conduct of the enemies
of the Bill. Lord Wharncliftb at firt,t ptui4o;eft.thitt the Bill
shoy.dd be absolutely rejected : this motion, so respectful fp the
House of ,Commons, so conciliatory to the nation at large' was
supported in au 49 topriate speech by the Earl of Mansfield. It
is probable, howaer, that souse hints were given' hat such an
off=hand mode of proceeding yf;nld not do; the Noble Mover had
it seems some misgivings, and asYed leue to rithdraw or amend
his motion. After a short and sharp discussion, the litiuse had
the kindness to relax the strictness of parliamentary ride4', and
to yield to the Noble Lord's desire. The motion was then with-
drawn. to he renewed, we suppose, this day, in some more cere-
monious forin.-,47/00,,

The speech of Earl Gruy last night, on moving the second
reading of the Reform Bill, will proctui:e the pest eflbcts, in calm.
ing the apprehensions of the people, and filling them with well-
grounded hope, that should the Lords throw out tlie Bill, all will
yet be 4fe. The conclusion of that speech is of such paramount
importance at this crisis, that attention cannot be too mui h drawn
to it, as a powerfull eorrsative of any feeling in the people which
might lead them in their anger a dpspair to rash steps, which
might forward the views of the opponents hi npform. " With
respect to myself, and the Administration of which I form a
part (raid his Lordship,) the fate of this Bill is a matter of coin.
parative indilfbrence. I have said, and lam not a man to recall
what I have sail:, *that by this measure I must stand or fall.—
(Continued cheers, espetially from the Opposition side.) The
question of my continuance In c;itn.e, oven for an hour, must de-
pend upon my seeing a reasonable prospect of being able to carry
intp effect this measure, to which I am pledged, as I think, by
every tin of private honour, and by every obligation of public duty,
both to my howeign and to the people.—(Hear, hear.) I wish
your Lordships dlstinc4'rp pnderstand—(as I have already said,
and the sentiment was received with sqme apparent eagerness.)—
that it is my deliberate conviction that the dangers to be incurred
by the rejection of this Bill cannot be obviated by any measure
of less foOp ipd efficacy. If such a plan be proposed, it is not
by me that It will be supported I never will consent to hold out
to the people a dehisivOnegure of Reform—l sin convinced that
they have a right to expect Loniit4utioluil Reform to the extent
of tiw Bill upon the table, and their earnest wishes in its favour
have been palously expressed. I have set before yogi Lordships
examples whicie should teach you how toavoid perils, which in my
view must inevitably f 01147/ rejection. I advocate this Bill as a
measure of peace and ceincillattqn i.and in the words of the prayer
we daily offbr, I hope that Provadence will i Prosper all your•
consultagnnt to the advancement Of his glory—to the good of the
Church, and to thg safety, honour, and welfare of the empire.'—
(Much cheering.) 1 situ aware that I have already too long de-
tained your Lordships, but I eanntttncuclude without expressing a
11,4 w—would I could say a sanguine expeptatic,n—tNt this mea-
sure may receive your sanction : I entreat your Lordships to
take into view the situation of the'country, and I trust that you
will then see the necessity for confirming by your vote a measure
calpulated not only to prpd,uce inunc4sqrape good, but to pre-
vent narnegstirable evil.-General and reiterated cheers.)" This
is an 'all.imporiani; drclaration' stating, as it does, in a manner
ijOt to lie misunderstood, wi.atthe country may expect from Earl
I'e
that
Ministry. His.Lordsbip does li;t hold out any expecta-
tion h:tlile will be read a Second time. 6, Would could
i,xpres
iwir sanction !" the people that
sanguine gxpectation that this measure may receive
But 41,40-r-solemnly assures
66 he tierer will consent
to nut to the people a dein.
sn,rc Iteror4--that the we • ve a right to eXpe(it ea naive mea-
-4141.8eat, o fhe3i2Lui on the:table :,_nasi,ttutioal
iiiiittA.,sse,d'
it 11 that if
t Ile 't.o ejtvili'lleVOPPlrta, 117;4 hasyne not
front
Lortitiltriigioripti4.4644l`ation4 ‘, that by this measure h
stao.o fat 1, t... of his continuance in office,
even htstlriffik#: (W 4 nilo/1 NS Seeing a reasonable proi.
: ,•• '
. .

•
Net of being able to carry into effect this measure." This is-all but
,saying in so many words, if the Bill is thrown out on the,sebond
reading, I will immediately create as many Peers as shall
of
enable me to hold office with a reasonable prospect carrying
the Bill. The fear that agitated the country was that Ministers
might hesitate to take the steps necessary to secure the Bill
ultimately on its being thrown out, and might tender their re-
signation. We rejoice, and the country will rejoice with it.,
to find that Ministers have no intention of resigning—that they
pledge themselves not only to stand or fall with the Bill, but also
never to desert the people in this struggle till all constitutional
means of carrying the Bill have been tried in vain. Under this
hope, patience is the virtue which the people are called on now
to display. Let us not have to reproach ourselves with the
guilt of sacrificing the future peace and prosperity of the
country by a childish impatience, when we know that the op-
position of the Anti-Reforming Lords can and will avail them
nothing—that Reform must be carried. Let us not, while
power as well as . numbers are with us; throw away our advar-
Lees. Ministers are entitled to our confidence so long as they
determine to remain at the helm under the pledge so solemnly
given to us. If the Anti-Reforming Lords were not determined
to rush on their fate, and to do all they can to involve the nation
in inexpressible calamity, they would be moved by the powerful
appeal made to them last night by Earl Grey. Infatuated men!
May they be yet saved from the reproaches which, if they per_
sist, their own consciences will one day make them—the re-
proaches which their own offspring will make them. Let
them remember that nations never die, but that property
changes hands—that the people are the stock, while the small
band of privileged orders are but the foliage, which may be
plucked off and east to the winds. Who can tell what may be
the result of throwing, this great nation Into disorder and confu-
sMn--Of throwing its immense masses into disordered action
1. I ask, then, (said Earl Grey, with most impressive eloquence),
I ask, then, nay Lords--with an overwhelming, an irresistible
majority of the real representatives of the people—with that
people roused and agitated from one end of the country to
the other, and claiming by respectful but decisive petitions
the restitution of their ancient rights—will you, the House of
Lords, put yourselves in opposition to the national opinion, by
rejecting this Bill, and thus disappoint expectations so reason_
ably and ardently entertained, and wishes so strongly and unani-
mously expressed ? If this House do take an attitude of deft_
ance to the voice of the whole country--a situation of things I
would fain believe impossible—if it reject this Bill—even by a
great majority of its Members, or with any thing approaching
unanimity, still it would not long be able to oppose suc-
cessfully the increasing tide of popular sentiment. The con-
sequences may be dreadful to contemplate; if you cannot
stern the tide, and yet resist it, is there no danger that you
may be even swept away by its violence?"—(Much cheering.)
Yes, there is danger—much danger. The industrious classes
of this country, smarting under the difficulties into which
they might be brought by the mad opposition of the
Lords to the wishes of a nation, and remembering with fond
affection the blessings from which they were torn, could not be
expected to look with indulgence on the .amathars of their
.calarnity—exile,—beggary—the ruins of ancestral halls—a
nation's hatred—a nation's malediction. These are the harvests
which these men would reap, were they not to be rescued from
the consequences of their own designs. But let me add, (con-
tinued his Lordship) that the peril will be much greater, should
this Bill be thrown out by a comparatively small number of your
Lordships. What then may be your situation? I say again, do
not flatter yourselves, that by introducing a less efficient mea-
sure you will allay the storm you will have raised, that you will
recover the ground you will have lost, or overcome the aliena-
tion you will have produced.—(Hear, hear.) I certainly depre-
cate any thing like a -popular cry ; as a citizen of a free State,
who feels that liberty is essentially connected with order, I would
resist the slightest approach to violence ; as a Member of the
Government, it is my duty to maintain tranquillity. But as a
citizen, as a legislator, as a Member of the Government, as
a man and as a Statesman, I am bound to look at the
consequences that may ensue from rejecting this Bill ;
and although I - do not state, as the Noble Duke
asserted of his measure, that the rejection of it would occasion a
civil war—for I trust it will produce no such effect—yet I do say
that such consequences are likely to result as make me tremble
for the condition of my country, and for the security of this
House.—(Cheers from the Opposition Bench.)" We would fain
persuade ourselves that the time for deliberation is not yet past
with many of their Lordships, whose names are exhibited in the
fatal list of enemies to the people. We would fain hope that a silly
vanity, an insatiable rapacity, a hatred of popular rights, will not
hurry them into a step which they may not be able to retrace,
and which may lead them to a precipice over which they will be
hurled to their fate. The Opposition was led by Lord Wharn-
cliffe, who moved the rejection of the Bill His Lordship
argued but very lamely, but he made up for his lack of argu-
ment by sweeping assertion, and some most astounding state-
ments His Lordship has discovered, from the petitions,
that the people are not in favour of the Bill, but in favour
of Reform, and being onle in favour of Reform, it fol-
lows that they will be satisfied with any sort of Reform,
and that therefore a real and efficient Reform need not be given
to them, but only an illusory one ! And to crown all, the shop-
keepers of Bond-street and St. James's, with whom his Lord-
ship deigns to exchange thoughts on the question of Reform, are i
taken by him as identical with all the people of England ! My
Lords (said his Lordship, with a humourous absurdity, which
Fielding could not have improved on), we mix with the people,
and we know the people, and we know their opinions and feel-
ings. Our rank and our privileges, thank God, have not removed
us from the people. We mix with them ; our character here
does not prevent its from mixing with them out of doors ; and I
say, my Lords, that it is impossible for any man of us to walk
the streets, and not to see that this Bill is deprecated by the
pCople.—(Hear, hear.) I would ask the Noble Earl to
walk with me through any street of this town—Down Bond-
street, for example—(A laugh)—or down St. James's-street
—(A laugh)—and to inquire of the people there. I do not
mean of the passengers he may accidentally meet ; but to go into
the shops, and ask the respectable tradespeople what is their opi-
nion of this Bill; and I will venture to say that he will not find
more than a very few persons indeed who will not say that they
are afraid of this Bill—that they think Parliament requires some
Reform, but that they are afraid of this measure of Reform."
—(Hear,) The people were hardly prepared for this, we venture
to say. What, the petitions of the whole country are to be
treated as a non-entity, because some of the shopkeepers of St.
James's and Bolad.street, to all of whom his Lordship must be as
well Known as he is to his own servants, are cunning enough,
knowing his Lordship's anti-reforming propensities, to appqar
to enter into his Lordship's views, and to wish' a Reform
that would leave nomination boroughs, and leave to borough
patrons, a ready access to the pockets of the. .peOPLV—
^wratghgiusn country.uati so
We- eould"hardly have believed, after the danionstrat
made in everytbt_owlaieeevrge' wasg fakft-rr late
the moment
f
signed by the whole adelt male population of the re-
spective places—that assurance could be carried so far. But this
poor attempt ha question the reality of the attachment of the
people to the Bill is, after all, the best thing said by the Oppo-
sition last night. Earl Mansfield, who has been given out oc.
casionally as the leader of the Opposition, made but a lame argu.
ment against the Bill. If the votes of these Lords counted for
no more than their arguments, we should have no apprehension
for time fate of the Bill. We foresee that the debate on their part
will be but a tedious business; but they expect to shine at the
last, God help them ! The debate was adjourned over to this
day, and we suppose it will be still 'lather adjourned.—Morning
Chronicle.

The great question came on last night in the House of Lords
—the second reading of the Reform Bill was moved by Earl
Grey. In the course of the day a variety of reports were in cir-
culation, and the immediate neighbourhood of Parliament af-
forded its full proportion of speculation and uncertain conjecture.
The general impression; however, was, that the Bill would be'
lost, and lest on the second reading. It is impossible to give an
idea of the anxiety which prevailed upon the subject up to the
moment when Lord Grey rose fo address the House, and a slight
incident occurred at the very commencement of his Lordship's
address which seemed to show that even the practice of an ex-
perienced and skilful debater was for a moment suspended by the
difficulty of the task he had to perform. Lord Grey was
obliged to sit down before he had finished his first sentence,
but he soon rose again, and, having conquered his feelings,
proceeded with a speech that was received throughout
with the most profound interest and attention, Nothing could
be more calm, or, at the same time more firm and Statesmanlike
than the tong of this consistent Reformer, in recommending his
important measure to the House. No one who heard it could
doubt the sincerity of the speaker, or dismiss from his mind the
magnitude of the occasion—nor was it possible to resist the
opinion that he who evinced that sincerity, and estimated that
magnitude so justlyi entertained any thing rather than a strong
conviction that his proposition would be attended with success.
Sometimes, it is true, he expressed a strong hope, for how is it pos_
sible for a reasoning mind not to feel occasional confidence in the
efficacy of reason ?—but confidence was far from being the pre-
dominant characteristic of the speech to which we allude.
At the same time there was no despondency in it; and, we are
happy to find, that even the rejection of the Bill will not neces-
sarily produce the resignation 'of Ministeis, so long as there re-
mains a reasonable prospect of its ultimate success. Though,
after a speech of more than two hours, the Ncble Lord was a
good deal exhausted towards the close, the concluding part, in
which he appealed to history to show the importance of timely
tioncession was impressive in a high degree. • Lord Wharnclifib
was a smah man to sit to answer Lord Grey—but there are'other
qualifications besides talent which must be sought' for in the
advocates of corruption. We cannot complain of the course
taken by Lord Wharncliffe and his p„rty, It was bold
enough ; some wonld call It presumptuous—some would call
it insolent,-but we are satisfied to call it bold. The pre.
vioqs nnestion, if carried, would be as- effectual a defeat of
the measure as the direct negative proposed by Lord Wham
OM, but it would not he so abrupt, so unceremonious, and em-
phatic a refusal, and that was probably the reason which gave
the latter the preference. This is candid, however. It shows that
the Opposition feel their strength, and are determined to use
their strength to some purpose. lint what Is the strength of
which we are speaking, after all? Supposing they are strong
enough to throw out the Bill by a majority of 30, still it is only the
strength of a majority amongst themselves against the majority of
the Commons and the vast and overwhelming majority of the
people of England. Now, .without moaning any thing in
the shape of Intimidation, wo may surely refer to any majo.
jority, large or small, which their Lordships may be able to
muster against the Bill, and say that it is presumption to think
of setting it up against the voice of the country. But the Lords
have as yet only entered on the discussion. It may be a Parlia.
miisneslneitibaairtytoefibo;ctb,iiot.int:teoet?scayup,..poief,,te
tettasholtlyv oglttivesewagirlceLbnaflsua,oan,,cebtdiymbrtyesfaieurcheiegutgot
the debate, that some of the Opposition were startled by the na-
ture of Lqrd Wharpcliffe's amendment, and that an attempt is
to be made to effect the same purpose in a more respectful tone.
What the issue may be remains still in the same uncertainty as
ever, and is likely to do so until the decision shall put an end to
the public suspense.—Morning Heraf4„
I _

We beg pave to call the immediate attention of Government
to a very important and extraordinary fact. We are assured
from a quail& of' undoubted authenticity, that there have been
for some days in London a body of the Parisian " heroes of the
Days of July," amounting to upwards of 2,000, under the direct
superintendence of a distinguished French officer, This circum-
stance Must ip every point of view be considered as of the most
serious natgre. Whatever the intent of these foreigners may be
—whether it he hostile to the h.est interests of our ancient ally of
Portugal, against which the malcontents of France and England
are now conspiring, or whether it has a view to the encouragement
or aidi lig of an y revolutionary movements in this country, in either
case Ministers arc bound promptly to interpose their a;;thority,
and to expel from the 4ingdqnl inch pests of society, and foes of
all social Fgulpact ,and good order in every State. Government
will of course lose np further time in making themselves ac-
qu&nted with all the circumstances regarding the suspicious re-
sidence of so great a number of revolutionary Frenchmen at the
p.sesent moment among us; and as the main fact cannot possibly
be unknown to file Alien-office, the ihypstigAtiork will be at-
tended with no difficulty, and 'a speedy remedy for the threat-
ened evil will of course be effectually provided by the Home De-
partment of the qoverpment—ltiorning Post.