The Sun.
London, England, 1831-09-10 00:00:00

"N. .
•
well-educated men, and it was madness not only to
soothe them, but to offer them exasperation. The priest-
hood of Ireland have an influence over the people of Ire-
land, and wherefore should they not? They are the Mi-
nisters of a religion, endeared by suffering, and fastened
by persecution to the affections of the country. They
superadd to the influence which is derived from their sa-
cerdotal authority the still better sway which is drawn
from their apostolic conduct. If their dogmas go beyond
(as.some may imagine), their lives are within the limits of
the Gospel. There is no variance—no wide gap between
their habits and their inculcation. There are no diamonds
in their mitres, nor gold on their crosiers. If they are
Samaritans in belief, they are not Pharisees in sensibi-
lity.—(Cheers.) They live with the poor, and they feel
for them. They are their friends, their benefactors, their
companions. If they admonish them with a parental
strenuousness, they sympathize with them with more than
a fraternal kindness. They are the trustees of their little
interest, the depositaries of their humble solicitudes; they
give them solace in sorrow, food in famine, medicine in
disease--they are the sentinels of the death-bed ; and in
the hovel that reeks with pestilence and steams with death,
they take their fearless stand, and minister to agony at the
hazard of their own lives, its last and most precious con-
solation.—(Cheers.) If at the dead of the winter mid-
night a knock should come to the door of the Catholic
Priest, and he should be told that one of those who
are committed to his spirital care lies at the point of
death, in need of his immediate succour, does he turn him
in a bed of down, and wrap himself in the warmth and
snugness of his rectorial sinecurism, that he may dream
of another benefice ?--(Hear, hear.) No ; he goes forth
with a celerity to which a genuine piety gives wings, though
the rain should fall in torrents on his head, and (I do not
exaggerate) the snow should beat against his face; through
many a lonely glen, and through many a deep morass he
makes his way. He arrives at the habitation of expiring
wretchedness; he places himself in perilous contact with
breath that exhales mortality, receives from poisoned lips
the secret of the over-burthened heart, converts despair to
hope, and wafts that hope to heaven.—(Cheering.) And
if this be true—and who will say that it is not true ?—is
it matter for wonder (reality has supplied the colours of
that picture which I have thus boldly painted)—is it, I
say, a matter for astonishment tbat men like these should
have an influence over the opinions, a sway over the feel-
ings, a domination over the nation's heart? And would
it not be the height of impolicy and Consummate infa-
tuation, for the sake indeed of Kildare-street Society, not
only to omit to make of these men your fast friends, but to
array them in hostility against'you ? But you have found
the way to win them, and to win us. We thank the Go-
vernment for their determination to leave no vestige of
Kildare-street behind ; and will repay them with a grati-
tude more than commensurate to the extent of the obliga-
tion.—(Cheers.)
Mr. SHAW bore testimony to the benefits conferred
upon Ireland by the Kildare-street Society, and vindicateu
the principles on which it was founded. He decidedly
objected to transferring the vote, and feared that the time
was not far distant when the funds would be devoted only
to the education of Roman Catholics. His opinion always
had been, that associations of the kind prospered better
without public aid.

Mr. RICE thought that be might now congratulate the
people of Ireland, that a system of education was about to
be given to them, which they could accept with satisfac-
tion.—(Hear, bear.) That system would not exclude re-
ligious instruction, but would guard against its introduc-
tion in such a way as to militate against the religious
opinions of the people. For his part, his greatest objec-
tion to the system of the Kildare-street Society was, that
it introduced religious instruction without a sincere and
open avowal of the intention.---(Hear, hear.) He thought
it unreasonable and unjust that Protestants should require
of Catholics to snake a sacrifice of religious tenets, such as
no Protestant would himself consent to make in the edu-
cation of his own children.--(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GORDON defended the system acted upon by time
Kildare-street Society. It had long been to all who wished
well to Ireland a matter of great regret that the Citholie
clergy were wholly regardless of the interests of education ;
and the fact was, that previous to the time at which Pro
testants took up the education of the people, the Catholic
clergy had established no schools at all ; and when they
bad effected their object, namely, that of withdrawing the
Catholic children from the schools which Protestants bad
set on foot, they (the Roman Catholic clergy) let their
own schools fall into decay. It had been stated, he ob-
served, that in the schools est ,blished by Dr. Doyle and
other Catholic Prelates and Ministers, the Scriptures
were generally read, but that he totally denied ; but, on
the contrary, he could show, from the books used in
those schools that the children were instructed in the
belief that the doctrines of Protestantism were heretical,
and Protestants could have no share in the kingdom of
Christ ; and was it then to support and spread such doc-
trines as those that Parliament was prepared to vote the
public money ?
Mr. O'CONNELL, after noticing the wide difference
which there existed in spirit and tendency between the
speech of the Hon. Member for Dundalk and those which
had been delivered on the otter side of the House, went
on to say, that the strong appeal to figures made by that
Hon. Gentleman was one which the House would know
how to value, when they recollected that the fallacy of
those statements had been exposed times out of number.
He would, however, mention one more instance under his
own immediate observation, for the purpose of showing
how little his calculations were to be relied on. He (Mr.
O'Connell) happened to be in the town of Ennis the very
day after one of the Kildare-place inspectors had left it,
and that person made it his boast that 400 children at-
tended the school. How did he procure the attendance of
them ? He induced them to come on one day, by giving
to each two-pennyworth of gingerbread. Yes, the Hon.
Gentleman made his appeal to figures. There were some
persons who made very comical figures occasionally.—(A
laugh.) Nothing could be grosser than the ignorance be-
trayed by the lion. Gentleman on Irish subjects—be
would not call it Scotch ignorance, for that might seem
to imply a national reflection, and nothing could be fur-
, timer from his mind—the Scotch were not an ignorant
people—any thing but that ; yet they certainly sometimes
turned out very odd characters.—(A laugh.) It seemed to
have been taken for granted by some lion. Members that
the Catholic priesthood and hierarchy were unfavourable
to education, let those who said so bear this in mind, that
itlier in Great Britain nor on the Continent was there
any University which had been founded by Catholic
Priests ; the University of Dublin was the only exception
that Europe presented to that rule. He turned with
pleasure from the speech of the lion. Member for Dundalk,
to that of the Right lion. Secretary far Ireland. The
Right Hon. Gentleman wished to put down agitation in
Ireland ; he could tell him that he had already com-
menced the good work—(Cheers)--and he exhorted him
to persevere in the course in which he had begun.—
(Hear, hear.) A charge had been made against him (Mr.
O'Connell), that be had been a subscriber to the Kildare-
street Society; it was true that he had, and he had con-
tinued so for nine years, till he discovered that that So-
ciety did not act according to the rules that had been laid
down for its governance.—(Hear. hear.)
Mr. JOHN BROWN expressed his approbation of the
plan proposed by the Right lion. Sectetary, and said, that
if it had been proposed to continue the grant to the
Kildare-street Society, he must have opposed it.
Colonel PERCIVAL explained.
Captain GORDON complained of the language used
which
t
towards him by the Hon. Member for Kerry (Mr.
Scriptures
r p t
omitted
O'Connell.) He thought that it was such as one gen-
tleman bad no right to snake use of to another. With
RomanC ina t altogetherhe respect to Dr. Doyle's Catechism, he could point out fifty
instances.
uoted ;
and it was notorious that in the Commandments the
sttelt'lad btheeesecond. q
Hon. Gentletnin then allude.] to the contribution that
had been raised for the Hon. Member for Kerry in Ireland,
and congratulated himself that he had never earned money
in that way—by sowing the seeds of rebellion and discon-
tent.—( Cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL denied that the Scriptures were
misquoted by Dr. Doyle, and said that the Command-
ments were printed by the Roman Catholics exactly as
they were printed by Luther.—( Hear, hear.) With re-
spect to the contribution, the Hon. Gentleman ought to
know that it had been given to him as a remuneration ; and
in point of amount, a very small remuneration it was, for
the business which he had given up in Ireland, and which
had produced 7,0001. a-year.—(Hear, hear.) Time Hon.
Gentleman might calumnate hint as much as he
pleased ; but he begged to state, that so far from being
ashamed of the circumstance, he was proud to boast
of it as one of the most gratifying events of his life.--
(Cheers.)
Mr. BODKIN begged to thank the Right Hon. Se-
cretary in the name of his constituents for the proposition
which he had made to the Comnmittee that night. As
to the calumnies whiph had fallen from the Hon. Member
for Dundalk, he treats d them with the contempt which
they deserved.
Captain GORDON contended that the whole substance
of the Second Commandment was omitted by the Roman
Catholics.

Mr. M. O'CONNELL said, that the statements of the
Kildare-street Society were not to be relied on, for he
knew that with respect to its schools, Which were said to
exist in the county of Clare, that many had ceased to exist;

:

and that others were entirety in ,the hands of the 111
Catholic Priests.—(Hear.) He did •not envy the,
Gentleman for Dundalk the exhibition which he hi',
that night—(Hear)--and if he bad=t-ehilditoliiitilll
would 'not be to that Hon. Membes tuitionititAte
confide it.—(Hear.) , - •
Mr. MULLINS saidiithat though the hour
felt he would be guilty of an injustice to his coot,'"
to his own principles, were he to refrain. font tre_lll
attention the antion of the. House for a few naoulentsr f vf;
expressed his gratification at the determination &Ili
jesty's Ministers to withdraw the grant to the
street Society—as well as his reasons for cordially'
ring in their views. Though he -could-. not lay-
the information and experience tin the subject
Kildare-place system of education, which in3tl.o
Members in that House could boast of, still he had
ciently observed and marked the workings of that 61:
and seen sufficient of the abuses which bad crept OE
to feel himself perfectly justified in asserting that, P.,
perfect it may have originally appeared to be in IV'
practice it had been proved to be the most imperfel'
most unsuited to the wants and condition of the colo„0
which had been applied. In giving this decided or
he trusted it would be believed that he was not l

by the spirit of exaggeratio❑ and preju lice; lie 0111
that which could be attested by hundreds—the I
which was evidenced by the fact of the partial,

some cases, total failure of These schools wherever
been established in Ireland, as well as by the spirit
tility engendered against them among men of ever
and every party. It was not to be denied that a gee

. . .
her of very pious and respectable, atd, in some CO
meaning individuals, both within and without that
had, in the various discussions that had arisen
subject, declared themselves strongly in favour
Society's schools, and considered that no system
sttuction not emanating from that body could
equal benefit, or work equally well in Ire's!),
verily believed that there existed some whose image
got the better of their common sense—who in
that these schools had been, " like the n

the wilderness"—provided by a special interposi7,
Providence, for the relief of what they were pin
denominate the benighted and priest-ridden populate,
Ireland ; but seeing these gentlemen could not vie'
moment suppose, that however disposed lie might,
give them credit for sincerity of opinion, and even t't
spect the views of some, whose talents were as ot'4
tionable as their integrity was undoubted— while at theo
time he could not but pity that unfortunate state of Pr:
delusion, which so frequently leads the strongest .Pi,
into the falsest and most fatal conclusions, on questl°o
vital importance to the best interests of the COogi
surely, he repeated, these individuals ceuld not eloi
that he, and those who agreed with him, could 01
gratify their mental aberrations as to surrender,"
nions that were based—not upon the besotted Piici
of a few, but—upon the evidence—the unprejd e
evidence of thousands—that evidence having loug,i,
vinced him of the inter inutility of the Kildare'?
schools for the purposes of general and beneficial jai"
tion. He was rejoiced at the resolution of his Dl?r, ,
)
Ministers to withhold the support which had been 111,0
extended to their; and though the pious and 'V
bosoms" of the opponents of all change " might hr.)
sigh" at what they were pleased to term the destruc`;ol
all existing institutions—though they might shod
t),
our innovating propensities—still he was not toll,
to proclaim himself the friend of innovation, not at),'
the present instance, but in every other where that
vation leads to certain and incalculable good—and to
ii
ing such opinions he (Mr. Mullins) felt hiroar
sincere a supporter of the teal institutions of
country,—and as uncompromising an advocate af,
Genfrights and liberties, as any of those Hon. Gent",
who ridiculously fancied that their support c't
corruptions of institutions, but not of instita
themselves, would now-a-days be mistaken for loyall
patriotism. Having expressed his gratification at
line of conduct about to be pursued by Governruot,
would take this opportunity of declaring his tieternUa'
to support and promote by every means in his povvert
other system of instruction which should appear 1,°1,)
culated to diffuse useful information most extd
among the poorer classes of society in Ireland, and II)
should effectually gum d against all interference,either dioi
or indirectly, with the religious tenets of those to ei,
that inforniatiun is conveyed. He was sure that))
person who considered that the population of I
was, as regarded religion, divided into three ,sf'
branches—the Protestant, Catholic, and Presbytersti
would readily admit that no system of edit,
not based upon the broad and liberal principle 0 i
to, could he expected to produce those general adca°,l
and beneficial results which the imperfect state of edul
Ireland so much requireu—and such a system he Ili i
hoped before long to see rising from the ashes of aflisii,
less, and, in its effects, he must say, an injuriouso
tution, and diffusing its blessings, without distiectii
party or of creed, among the ill-educated and
neglected pi•asantry of Ireland. i
After a few words from Mr. Bonxiii the grant
agreed to.
The House then resumed, the Chairman reported[
gress, and obtained leave to sit again on Monday ref
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE. IP

Colon,l SI BTHORPE—Sir, I give notice that, c°l
day next, I shall bring under the consideration of the
the conduct of the Editor of the Times Newspaper,'"
ing grossly infringed the privileges of this House.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed
the House adjourned at Half-past Two till Mondg

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNA°

In an affair of great delicacy, to which we i+
already alluded, our wish would be, if we mig?
permitted, to put the public in possession °,
whole truth, and then let the matter drop, Ofj
know that protracted discussions are apt to Pi
resentments which did not at first exist. It 4
impossible that the absence of the Duchess of ,
and of the Princess Victoria* her daughter,
the Coronation, should have escaped notice;p!
therefore stated what the fact would be, 1311
signed some causes for it. We hope now to •
the account in a manner which may suppress rg
animosities. We have received two versioqi
the affair, and both, if we look to the quarters ii
which they come, entitled to the highest cons
alien. The first says, " her Royal Highne.lt
Duchess of Kent wrote to the Duke of Norfol;.,
hereditary Earl Marshal, to know how she 'II
go to the Abbey herself, and what arrangel
had been made for the Princes! Victoria?' ,f
answer was, " That his Majesty had oightioi
his pleasure that her Royal Highness s',
attend in her place as a dowager Princesiiji
Peeress, and that the Princess Victoria victei
under the care of the Land ravine and the ri'V
Augusta, and be attended by the Duchess of of
thumberland in the Royal pew." (A very PI)
arrangement we have no doubt the of
will think ; but of remark more hereafter). tie
answer being received, so far was her hors' Air
trees from declining attendance, that she ordere4;!
robes, and it was understood by all the Royal fs:,tir
that she would be there. The King never dovti,
but that the Duchess would be at the Coron9bc,
ordered a letter to be written to her to kilos'
Lglis
she would name to carry her coronet ; to
iinswer was received. After waiting some tinle'i
Majesty ordered another letter to be written Di
own name, and to this an answer did come fr°lllo6,
John Conroy, speaking of her attendance o 9
,h
certain, but saying that if she did attend, t;,
would have her coronet borne by Lord MorVeDlln
Our other account agrees in the chief fi;c4; `vitllll4
preceding; but adds, " Royal llighnesshi,
wrote to express her ready compliance" (WiV
arrangement made as to the place selected for
_efit.
and her daughter), " and her desire to be Pre;tor
the ceremony, and to mark her dutiful regard
Majesty; but it was afterwards considered 05,,
pedient to interrupt the benefit which the Pr/efte,
Victoria's health was receiving by her resideacobri
the sea; and upon this ground, and also 013°0
fi
of the expense which would attend the Duclied
Kent's leaving the isle of Wight, and remov'fipli
her establishment to town, ,o as to appear, i 7201),,
at the Coronation, his Majesty pltlsea, lotP
most gracious and in the kindest Manner, ti;eo,
pease with the attendance of the Duchess of 'tie
and the Princess her daughter." Upon thee
occasions we may observe, that the latter tti
rif
notice of the delay in answering tl e letter 4 riito
by his Mtjesty's direction; and the former 0121
mention of the King's graciously dispensi"gi Ir,
the attendance of the illustrious personages, ti
, ;0 ots
Our reporter committed an error yesterday
that the Royal infant was present.