The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-04 00:00:00

FINANCE.

The House having resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply,
Lord ALTHORP said that it was then his intention to
state to the House his view of the present expenditure and
revenue for the present year. He proposed to do so-
-srst, by stating what the revenues of the last year would
;)e ; then the expenditure ; and lastly, what would be the
balance of the account. The mode in which he would
arrive at this result, would be by saying what the produce of
last year was; what was the difference between last year and the
present one, up to the present time ; and what would be probably
received for the last quarter of this year. The produce of the
Customs for 1830 amounted to upwards of 17,000,00.1. A de-
crease had taken place up to the 24th of September, from the
first of January, 1831, to the amount of 1,000,0001. This reduced
it to 16,890,0001. I estimate, continued the Noble Lord, a fur-
ther loss of 210,0001. upon coals, duties on which having been
reduced to the amount of 16,000,0001. I expect the duties on
wine, and the exporting of coals will be a decrease of 10%0004,
making the whole estimate of the present year for the Customs
16,750,000/, The produce of the Excise for 1814 was about
18,000,0001. The decrease up to to the 24th of September, is
upwards of 1,000,000/. The reduction of duties is about 100,0001.,
which only extends from the 24th of Septemberto the end of the
year. This reduction made tk e excise duty upwards of 16,000,00t.14
There had been received on-the stock of wine in hand 127,000/.
Altogether, the clear produce of the excise was 16,800,0001.
With respect to the statement of the Customs, it will be neces-
sary to state what is the amount of taxes that have been reducer'„
and what effect they have had on the revenues. The amount of
taxes reduced is altogether 3,357,0004, and the reduction on the
Customs made the whole amount to four millions. But the re-
venue accruing from the Customs and Excise, which amcamted
in 1830 to 36,000,0004 will now amount to 33,000,000/. Thus the
decrease, by a fair computation, instead of being 4,000,0004, has
only been 2,611,0001. It will now be understood that the Cus-
toms amount to 16,750,0901. The Excise amounts to 16,800,0004
The Noble Lord then proceeded to state that the Taxes, Stamps,
and Crown Lands were 15,000,0001. and upwards, which made the
amount of the whole revenues received 47,250,000/. He now
came to the expenditure. At this period Government knew
better what was more likely to be the expenditure than at
any other period of the year. In the curly part of the
year Government were obliged to make up the amount tromp
estimates, but at the present time a very small proportion was
made up from them. He could, in consequence, make a state-
ment of the expenditure which might be perfectly relied ca. It
amounted, up to the 24th of September, to 35,222,641/. The ex-
penditure from that time to the end of the year would amount
to 11,533,8804, thus snaking the whole expenditure for 1831,
46,756,5214 The surplus which would remain, after deducting;
the expenditure from the produce, would be just 41)3,479/.. The
expenditure, lie found, for 1630, was 47,812,0001. I have (con-
tinued Lord Afthorp,) examined the statements in'cvery way that-
I can. lam sure I make no exaggeration. I have consulted
those in the Treasury whom I believed to have had the most ex.
perience, and they tell me that I can with cookience rely upon
the general accuracy of the statements made. • The whole effect
of these will cause me to make a few remarks, because it does
appear, that comparing these with the statements of last Fe-
bruary, the amount is rather larger than I stated at that time,
notwithstanding the number of taxes I have been enabled to suc-
ceed in carrying. I will only state, that in February I made ara
allowance for the general revenues of the country, and the con-
sequences of those revenues. Having nsade this statement with
respect to the balance of the accounts, I will only hope that
I have made myself clear. There are, however, two other fasts
relative to the mode in which 1 have disposed of the balance to
which I would wish to advert In consequence of a question that
was asked me a few nights since by the Hon. Member for 02-k-
-hampton, respecting the circulating medium, I wish most
particularly, and it is desired by others as well as by tnysalc to
state the course which has been pursued by the Bank durtng
the last year, in order to do away the suspicions and imputations
thrown out that they have been tampering with thecurreacy.
It is perfectly well known to the House that the, exchange has
fora long time been against this country. In consequence of
this there must be a considerable draft upon the Bank, which is
the pivot on which the circulating medium turns. The effkt of
this draft on the Bank produces a pressure on commerce, and
persons engaged in commerce require bills to be discounted. If
the Bank refuse to discomft them the effect would be to produce
a great and unnecessary pressure upon commerce. The course-
which the Bank has pursued has been not to withhold the prac-
tice ofdiscounting. It was essentially necessary that the Bank
should not allow its securities to increase, because, if then did,
while the draft remained upon them, they would be'
obliged to contract the exchange of the country, which •
he need hardly add, would prove of the greatest injury,
The Bank, properly, have taken care that the
securities haze not increased when in their hands ; but as
private securities have increased, thay have brought, is proper_
tion, to the market a certain proportion of the Bank securities.
The of bet of this caused the [trait to act on the circulating me.
ilium of this country grad and fairly. 'he country has in_ IllY
deed felt the effects of the raft, but they hail not been of that
sudden change which in former times had produced such disas-
trous conseqoences. I now wish to state my own course, with
respect to the employment of the surplus funds. It was, no.
doubt, well known that the Government were accustomcal to
take an average of the surplus fbnds which had accrued from
about three of the preceding quarters, and these seem to be N.
plied to the payment of the debts for the ensuing quarter.
king as these remain stationery, this is the proper course of s'pro-
ceeding, and you do not average a larger redemptive than you
had funds to meet. But when the revenues euctuatsai,
might happen, you would be placed in a scea,onvhat awkward
predicament. It is well known to the Hoene that an Act tad
been passed, by which the Commissicasers
to the pun.
of the public debt
th.
were bound to apply the surplus of e revel'!"

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. The Noble Earl chasing
c:s"fh::s7: Exchequer
been dinlitlishilY'o,;;i Exc(-)heqUer Bills,
used by the Earl of
. quarter's revenue to the Pe._rf.,',;aiif deficiency bin:. in the
lenting to the motion have applied
applyingit to the plirf;". p . , -, .4 t
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It to be placed upon It;ha,ninkilni%, L the sin's." ,
in, which is was. in /be cat -t - c
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*bleb I hare received from the different otitports and resources '
this day, I have great reason to believe that the diminution will
not continue. The Noble Lord concluded by moving a resolu-
tion, .‘ That the Committee should make good a supply to his
Majesty, by voting 1,500,0001. from the Consolidated Fund."
-.Ars GOULBL RN had looked forward with some anxiety to
this statement of the Noble Lord . -If he had not been inclined
before to make any remarks, he thought that the statement of
the Noble Lord fully justified him in making one or two observa-
tions. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was satisfied to find
himself .at the close of the year with a surplus no larger than
490,000/. ; a sum in no way sufficient to meet even the con.
tingencies and expellees to which.the Government was liable—
a sum infinitely less than any former Parliament had required
Ministers to bring in—a sum, he must say. infinitely less than
was required for the Security and credit of the country. When
they considered the many changes that had taken place—when
they considered what the Noble Lord himself had stated, lie
hardly knew what they could think of the smallness of such a
surplus. He wished that the Noble Lord had told them what
was the amount of the many large sums that had been voted
during the year. A great hazard, he was of opinion, had been
run with respect to the revenue, as Ministers had not taken
into account what claims might be made upon them in a short
time for debts of the year, and whether they might not be
made at an earlier period than usual. Such a ,hazard had been
rim, that the attention of the House should be called to it. Was
it not essential' that they should not be left in times of peace with-
out resources to reduce the debt, which, if not reduced, would
come upon the country with greater weight ? During the
time that he was Chancellor of the' Exchequer, he induced
Owl-louse of Commons to give their assent to the application of
the surplus revenue to the reduction of the debt. He did relieve
the country from a great part of the. burthen. Mr. Goulburn
then entered into a short statement of the: reductions that he
had made in the permanent securities, and of the immediate and
future benefits they occasioned. He then proceeded to observe,
that the Noble Chancellor of the Exchequer had taken off taxes
to the amount of 900,000/. ; but as he had no command over that
complicated machine—the coal tax—the people had not benefitted
by the remission to a greater amount than 250,0005. With re-
spect to the application of the surplus revenue, the Noble Lord
had not fairly and explicitly stated the nature of the Bill
which he (Mr. Goulburn) had introduced. The object was that
you should apply to the reduction of the Debt what was the
exact surplus of the expenditure. If that was robe carried on in
the ordinary way, you should not have waited till the 31st Decem-
ber, and then applied the whole of the amount to the reduction
of the Debt. To apply a large sum at one time, as the forth-
coming quarter's revenue had been applied, was, in his opinion,
likely to produce great fluctuation. Parliament had, therefore,
Made a regulation that the surplus of each quarter should be em.
pioyed. He did not think that it was proper to anticipate the
revenue for the quarter, and employ it for a distinct purpose, as,
although no augmentation of the debt had ever unexpectedly
taken place, still such a circumstance was not unlikely to occur.
The Right Hon. Gentleman went on to state that the Noble
Lord, by purchasing the deficiency bills, put into the pocket of
the Bank the interest of so much of the coming .M revenue as by
the purchase of the bills lay in the hands of the Bank. A de-
-I;ciency bill, which anticipated the quarter's revenue, was obliged
to he taken up each succeeding quarter. By the adoption of Ex.
chequer-bills, the public obtained the interest which the Bank
now had, and the coming in of the money relieved them (the
public) from the interest. The Right Hon. Gentleman con.
chided by easing that the revenue of the country presented cer.
thinly a pleasing aspect, as it showed them an additional example
of the extent and power of the country, and gave them a hope
that if the circumstances of the State required-assistance, they
might look for it with confidence amongst the enterprising inha-
Wawa of Great Britain.
, Mr, MA .BERLY was certainly surprised that Lord Althorp had
violated the rule laid down by Parliament for the application of
the surplus, and blamed Mr. Csoulburn for having brought on
that measure. The mode .which by it was prescribed of ascer-
taining what the amount of the Sinking Fund would be each
quarter was, in his opinion, fallacious ; and he hoped the mea.
sure would shortly he repealed. Mr. Goulburn complained of the
smallnest of the Sinking Fund ; but was it not better that the
Fund should be small, and that taxation should be reduced ?
Could the Government have been carried on if taxation had not
been reduced ? Mr. Maberly said that Lord Althorp stated that
the surplus was 490,0001. In his opinion, however, he was only
sure of 50,000/.
Lord A I.THORP had not applied more of the surplus revenue
than he had been in possession of. ,With respect to the alleged
profit of the Bank, he would only say that it might have been
so if he had carried the purchase to an extreme. It was said that
he would have done better if he had purchased Exchequer Bills.
He would show the fallacy of this suggestion. Deficiency Bills
were sold at a par, but Exchequer Bills must be purchased at a
premium, unless the Bank were prepared to sell them to Govern-
ment at a less price than they did to the public. Mr. Goulburn
asserted that the object of the Sinking Fund was to reduce the
Debt, that injury accrued from a different application, and any
sesperiment of this kind, when made in error, generally occa-
sioned a fluctuation in the price of stocks; but at no time had
the prices been so regular as during the last few months.
Mr. HUME said, that the Sinking Fund was a mere delusion,
and that It deceived the public The statements of the Revenue
which had aweared in the Gazette were delusive. They were
all retrospective--but the public, from the manner in which they
were put, conceived that they were prospective. He hoped that
this practice would be sholished, and that all estimates in future
would be prospective. This would lead the accounts to be made
up in such a manner as any mai* might understand them, He
approved of the assistance which Government had afforded, and
hoped, that the regulation respecting the application of the sur-
plus fund would be tepealed. The Hon. Gentleman complained
that the expenditure was still too great. Mr. Goulburn had
boasted of the large surplus which he had managed to get toge-
ther—but then that was done at the expense of the people. Bet-
ter that a reduction of the taxes should he always taking place,
and that there should be no Sinking Fund. The largeness of the
surplus in Mr. Goulburn's thee placed this Government, who
were obliged to reduce taxes, at so low a financial ebb. He (Mr.
Hume) attributed great praise to the Bank for their having pros
tided against the consequences of a sudden draft.
Mr. GOULBURN observed that it would be impossible to
calculate the expenditure and produce of the year to come by the
accounts of the preceding year, Lod the House recollect the
time when Lord Goderich, by pursuing wail a course, calculated
two millions beyond his real resources ? The Wight Hon. Gentle.
man went into a statement of the amount of the Sinking Fond
in his time.
Mr. MABERLY said, as it was thedeficiency bills anticipated
the revenue, supposing there should be a run upon the Bank,
what would he done when the revenue had been anticipated ?
Lord A ',THORP supposed it was suspected that at the end of
the year Government would be in a dilemma, and would call for
money in Exchequer Bills, Such would not be the case. In
purchasiog the deficiency Bills he had only taken money out of
-Mr.IYCS7II:-i.s;; not favourable to this shuffling of cards, with-
out the attainment of airy good.
. Mr. GOULBURN wished to ask at whoseexpeosa had a quan-
tity of silver Who beets lately melted down at the Bank by
order of tiro Governinent?
Lord ALTHORP replied, that it had been ascertained that
the amount of shillings was too great for circulation. A' pound of
silver contained 62 shillings; but the shillings he had alhicled to
did not have their full weight, their being 60 to the pound
Governindnt learning that this bullion wets to be disposed of, en-
tered into a treaty for its purchase with the Bank, who had it in
their possession, and the agreeMent was, that the bullion was
robe Melted down at their expellee, and that they were to lose
the difference in the weight of Use bullion and the new coin. The
oegrxiations were not, however, all tams: Wriest
The quegtion' etas then put upon the
.xGselkition, which was
agreed to. Mr. Bernal then left the Chair.
MESSAGE FliPm rHE LORDS.
A Bill from the Lords, the otieet of which is to diminish the
X.,:penses incurred in proceedings by writs de lunatico inquirendo.
Ordered to be brought up.