The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-15 00:00:00

stilted contend that less than ten would not auffice fur the
ends of justice; and amply and candidly would he then
avow that they were right, and that he was wrong in pro-
posing a less number ; and, attached as he was naturally
to his own proposition, he surrendered it at once when it
was proved to be erroneous.—(Hear.) The eminent law-
yers, on whose counsels he thus acted, had before them
the most extensive information on which to ground their
opinions. They had one element—an important one—of
their calculation, in the number of hours which the whole
seventy Commissioners of B tnkrupts usually devoted to
their functions ; and they had another, in the nature and
amount of the business which should come before the new
Judges. And here he must say, that when his Noble and
Learned Friend talked of fifteen Judges being sufficient for
all the common law business of the country, while the Bill
asked for ten Judges for the business of one branch of one
Jurisdiction, he evidently overlooked or he was ignorant of
the extent and importance of the cases on which the new
bankruptcy Judges would be called upon to decide. He
forgot that their functions would not only be extensively
judicial, but that they would also have to act as adminis-
trators and trustees in all bankrupt cases that occurred in
London and forty miles around ; and, as such, that it would
not be easy to over estimate the amount and importance of
their jurisdiction. The Noble and Learned Lord pro-
ceeded next to say that he was taken somewhat by surprise
by his Noble and Learned Friend, and that he should be
prepared to meet him whenever he chose to openly object
to the principle of the Bill. He repeated that the pre-ent
number of the new bankrupt Judges was not fixed upon
by himself; hut, contrary to his own prepossessions on
the matter, had been adopted by him as the result of his
inquiries and conference with those most competent to offer
advice on the subject; that the only end he had, or could
have in view, in bringing forward the Bill, was to pro
mote the interests of general justice; and that it involved
no novelty of principle to warrant the indirect attack of
his Hon. and Learned Friend. If their Lordships sanc-
t.oned his Noble and Learned Friend's motion, the result
would be the instantaneous dismay and despair of the mer-
cantile community of the city of London, whose petition,
signed by 4,500 of the bankers and merchants of that
city, all crying out unanimously for the abolition of the
present Bankrupt Commissioners' system, he had presented
to that House; and though the success of that motion
might carry delight and satisfaction to those interested in
the emoluments and patronage of the present bankruptcy
offices, it would be, as he had said, productive of despair
in the minds of a most influential and important class of
their fellow-subjects, and of the public at large..—(Hear.)
For these reasons, anti to counteract the mischievous effect
which his Noble and Learned Friend's observations might
create out of doors, he must oppose his motion.
Lord WYNFORD, in explanation, had only to say
that he did not intend by his motion to moot the principle
of the Bill, hut only to induce a careful and unhurried in-
verigation of its provisions. Nothing that had fallen from
lois Noble and Learned Friend had affected the objections
on which he had grounded his motion fur delay, for his
objections remained unanswered. If he was in error as
to the funds from which the new Judges were to derive
their salaries, the error evas not his own, but his Noble
and Learned Friend's, who failed, in his mind, to make
matters much clearer. Besides, he had stated his reasons,
be they valid or otherwise, for believing that the charge of
the new Judges would be 40,0001. per annum, while his
Noble and Learned Friend had not condescended to favour
them with his reasons for counter-stating, that the charge
would he 15,000/. a year less.—(Hear.) As his Noble
and Leaned Friend had not vouchsafed to give them more
than mere assertion for his dissent to the motion for delay
till the 15th of April, and as there was every ground to
expect Parliament would be sitting at least a month longer;
anti, as, above all, the present Bill had been altered in all
its parts since first propounded by his Noble and Learned
Friend, he would take the sense of the House on his ma-
tion.—(Hear, hear.) He put it to their Lordships whe-
ther less than a month, the period of his motion, would
suffice for a thorough investigation of its contents, and he
put it to his Noble anti Learned Friend whether the juris-
diction of the bankruptcy courts was not essentially a
common law one, and whether therefore its administrators
had any right to be paid out of the funds placed under
equity controul for strictly equity purposes.
The LORD CHANCELLOR had only to repeat his
disclaimer that the new Judges were not to be paid out of
the suitors' fund, and his surprise that his Noble and
Learned Friend should persist in insinuating that they
were to he so paid. lie begged leave, morever, to deny
the correctness of his Noble and Learned Friend's asser-
tion, that the Commissioners of Bankrupts formed no
part of the Court of Chancery, inasmuch as the con-
nexion which subsisted between them and the judicature
of that Court was, in his opinion, direct and obvious.
Setting aside that consideration, however, he should
merely add, that, should his measure be adopted, the
public would save 8,000/. a year, while not the smallest
loss would accrue to the suitors' fund in consequence of
that saving. If, tinder such circumstances, their Lord-
ships would resort to the unheard-of course of postponing
the next stage of the Bill for so long a period as an entire
month, according to the suggestion of his Noble and
Learned Friend, they would thus, in the estimation of
the public, affix a stigma on the measure which could
not possibly be justified by any argument that had hereto-
fore been urged against it.
The Noble and Learned Lord then put the motion,
"that this Bill he recommitted on 15th of April ;" on
which the House divided, when there appeared—
Content 19
Not Content 34
Majority against the motion —l5

On our re-admission,

The LORD CHANCELLOR stated, in reply to a
question from Lord Manners, that he hid no objection to
postpone the recommittal until that day week, if such a
concession should meet the wishes of the Noble and-
Learned Lord who oppo.e•l it.
The Duke of WELLINGTON observed that his Noble
and Learned FrienA, the Chief Baron, would then, most
probably, be absent on circuit, in which case they could
not have the advantap,e of his a..sistance in the discunsion.

The LORD CHANCELLOR replied that the House
having already decided against postponing the re-committal
of the Bil for a month, could not well consent to put
their legislative capacity in abeyance, and make its exer-
cise entirely depend on the presence or absence of any
Noble Member, how respectable soever the individual
might be. Nevertheless, it so happened, that he per-
sonally desired the presence of his Noble and Learned
Friend, who professed, indeed, to be interested in the
Lunacy Bill, and also in the third legal Bill which he
meant to introduce, and which he had abstained from
pressing forward with the others, in compliance with the
Chief Baron's own wish ; but his Noble and Learned
Friend had not yet expressed, to his knowledge, any opi•
nion, either in public or private, against the measure now
proposed ; nor did he believe that the Noble and Learned
Baron did intend to object to it ; at least, nothing up to
that day had been uttered by his Noble and Learned Friend
which would lead hint to anticipate the opposition which
it was now insinuated he had reason to expect.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said he had not come to
any opinion on the measure, and therefine was not pre-
pared to oppose it. All that he sought was, that a lair
opportunity, and a reasonable length of time, might be
afforded for its tutquate discussion.
Lord ELLENHOROUGII was of opinion that his
Noble and Learned Friend (Lyndhurst) had certainly ex-
presses! a wish t.o be present at the discussion of some
stage of the Bill, if not on every occasion when it should
regularly conic under the consideration of the House. It
appeared to him, notwithstanding what had fallen from the
Learned Lord on the Wool,ack, that the Chief Baron did
entertain considerable doubts as to the expediency of this
measure, which he had described as containing little good
that was at the same time new, while whatever it had of
novelty was not good, but quite the reverse, and ought
not to he adopted. Such being the opinion which, to the
best of his recollection, his Learned Friend had already
intimated, it was only fair that the House should be given
an opportunity of hearing his sentiments on the details of
the which were really of a very difficult and cotnpli-
eated character. If in:the course of thefifteen days during
which the Noble and Learned Lord hirnsulf hail directed
his attention to the subject, so many alterations had sug-
gested themselves to his mind, was it not equally probable
that other imperfections might attract the notice of Noble
Lords who enjoyed similar advantages of professional edu-
cation ?—( Hear. r a, ,
)_Lay aaem,ers were not competent to
pronounce upon the merits of legal details, however capable
might be to decide upon the principle abstractedly;
and it was consequently desir,ble that they should avail
themselves
niselves of the advice of two of the ablest and most
learned men who had ever held the seals of England, to
whom they might rifer as being fortunately Peers of their
Lou dships' House.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said he was most anxious
that the present discussion should not go forth to the public
as stigmatising this Bill, with the censure of a Noble and
Learned Lord who was not in his place to state his opinions
for himself. The Noble and Learned Baron who had just
spoken happened en,irely to misunderstand what had been
uttered by the Chief Baron, as th ; latter Noble Lord had
merely said that he had intended by his Bill to alter the
sittings of the Masters in Chancery, and the mode of taking
evidence, and referred to the third measure as that in
which he was principally interested. If the discussion
should not be taken until the termination of the circuit,