The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-17 00:00:00

CORN RETURNS.

The Duke of RICHMOND complained of the inac-
cury of the returns of the corn inspectors, as
to the price at which corn was sold. Many farmers
did not make returns of the corn which they sold
to their labourers and others; and if they made these
returns the average price of corn would not appear so
high as it appeared at present.
The Earl of GRANVILLE thought the attention of
the Board of Trade had been directed to the subject.
TYNE RIVER CONSERVANCY BILL.

Lord BEAITMO NT moved the second reading of this
Bill, in order that it might be referred to a Select Com-
mittee.
Lord BROUGHAM denied that it was usual to give
a second reading to a Bill of this sort, which transferred
the duties of one trust to another trust. It was not
usual to transfer the duties of one trust to another
trust. The proper remedy for a breach of trust
was not a Bill, but a suit. Non-performance
of duty on the part of a trustee was a good ground for
eompelling him to perform his duty, but not for trans-
ferring the trust and depriving the trustee of the revenue
of the trust. But then it was said that the trust was in
debt, and the new commissioners would take upon them-
selves the debts if they were permitted to receive the
revenues. Why, he himself would do the same by his
Noble Friend the Marquis of Westminster, and be
three or four hundred thousand a year the better
for it.--(Renewed laughter.) He had never had any
connexion with the Corporation of Newcastle, except
having been once counsel against them; he knew none of
them but denied that it was a matter of course that
every private Bill thould be read a second time,
and this was a question of the rights of property, and
he was opposed to every measure which could be consi-
dered an outrage on de rights of property, whether those
rights were the rights of a private individual or of a corpo-
ration.

Lord CAMPBELL said that this was not a party
measure. The Committee of the House of Commons,
consisting of five Liberals and five Conservatives, had
reported unanimously in its favour; and, therefore, he
thought their Lordships should read it a second
time in order to refer it to a Select Committee. He
considered that a legislative remedy ought to be applied
to the abuse complained of, and that those who com-
plained of it ought not to be left to the dilatory remedy
of a Chancery suit.
Lord IN HARNCLIFFE said that the Corporation of
Newcastle had exercised these rights fur 100 years, and
ho thought a Committee of either House of Parliament
was a most improper tribunal to decide how they had
performed their duties. He considered that it would
be the lesser evil of the two to reject the Bill.
The Earl of ST. GERMANS objected to discussing
private Bills in the House. He thought this Bill would
be much better considered before a Select Committee.
This could scarcely be considered as ,inter-
fering with the rights of private property, inasmuch
as the funds administered by the Corporation
consisted of tolls to the amount of 26.0001. a year, levied
for the improvement of the River Tyne, of which not
more than 6,0001. a year was expended in improving the
navigation of the river. He supported the second read-
ing of the Bill.
Lord REDESDALE opposed the second reading of
the Bill.
Earl GREY had been strongly urged to oppose this
Bill, but he could not consistently with his sense of jus-
tice consent to do so. It was clear on the statement
of the opponents of this Bill that this was a measure that
could only be properly considered in a Select Committee,
and therefore be should support the motion for the
second reading.
The Earl of HARROWBY opposed the motion. The
first thing the Committee would have to do would be to
try a legal issue.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE supported the
second reading of the Bill. From the manner in
which the Bill came recommended to the House he did
not think their Lordships would be justified in re-
jecting it.
Lord BEAUMONT having replied, the House di-
vided, when there appeared :
For the second reading ... 42
Against it ,
... SO
Majority .. —l2
The Bill was then read a second time, and referred
to a Select Committee.
The Sites for Schools Bill was read a third time and
passed, and the Commons' amendments to the Turnpike
Trusts Bill were agreed to.
The Marquis of LANDSDOWNE laid on the table
the correspondence between the Poor-law Commis-
missioners and the Board of Guardians in Ireland for the
last six months.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion that the House go into Committee on
this Bill,
Lord STANLEYsaid that he did not mean to enter into
any discussion on this Bill, but at the same time he felt it
to be his duty to make a few observations on some omis•
sions in the Bill, which should have been introduced to
the notice of their Lordships by the Government, and
which omissions tended very much to neutralise the good
that was included in some of its clauses. He thought
it was the duty of the Government, to give all the in-
formation requisite respecting this measure, and regret-
ted that he felt bound to say that that information was
not given to the Committee. He should also express
his astonishment that the rate in aid that had been so
strongly disapproved of by their Lordship? Committee
should have been introduced in this Bill, and, therefore,
hoped that the opinions that then prevailed would be
sustained, and that no such clause would be acceded to,
as they had already decided that it would be impracti
cable and injudicious, particularly as every one of their
Lordships, with the exception of two or three belonging
to the Government, were opposed to such a clause. It
might be said that the Committee could not wait for the re •
port, but to that he should say, why should they go on with
a measure of which most of their Lordships were ignorant;
and why not confine themselves to legislate only on what
they knew ? He should next refer to the quarter-
acre clause, and say that nothing could be more unjust
than that persons holding ten acres or more should be
allowed out-door relief while they neglected the cultiva-
tion of those ten acres. This was a question which he
considered the Government were called upon to settle,
and should therefore oppose the Bill, until he got more
satisfactory explanations than had as yet been given;
for he felt fully convinced that such a clause would tend
to spread pauperism throughout the whole of Ireland.
He therefore hoped that the Government would consider
the question, and not cause the peeple of that country
to emigrate in thousands, as they were doing at present.
This rate in aid was most unjust, because it brought on
the industrious farmer the onus of supporting others
who were negligent of their duty in society, because
they resided in a different electoral division. He looked
upon such a plan as a premium for idleness and apathy,
and as a source of resistance to the just payment of
their rates. Such a line of proceeding would involve
many of the landlords in Ireland, and he, for his
own part, felt its unjust influence already. He hoped
that those omissions to which he had alluded would be
considered by their Lordships, and that the present Bill
would be rejected. This was an obligation, too, which
might endure for ever, and he was perfectly confident
that Ireland could not bear up against the load of taxa-
tion which they were enacting. They must diminish
this oppressive taxation, or otherwise expect to find the
number of insolvent unions greatly increase. He con-
fessed that in this Bill he felt great disappointment, for
let them amend it as they might, and amend it he hoped
'hey would, or let them reject such of its obnoxious pro-
visions as they chose, and some of them he hoped they
would reject, he could not look forward with any degree
of hope taat it would ever prove a remedy for that great
canker of Ireland, the poor-law, which was eating into
the very substance of the people.
After a short speech from Lord KINGSTOWN,
which was altogether inaudible in the gallery,
The Marquis of LA.NSDOWNE rose to answer some
of the observations of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord
Stanley). He wished to remind the Noble Lord, that
whatever his opinion might be, there was only one opi-
nion in Parliament at the commencement of the session,
that a Committee of Inquiry was the proper mode of pro-
ceeding, as a first step towards legislation on this subject.
If the Government had not taken that step the Noble
Lord and his political friends would have been the first to
blame them for not having taken the opinion of a Com-
mittee, and of Irish Members acquainted with the work-
ing of the Irish poor-law, The Government, however,
had not incurred this blame, and lost no time in procur-
ing a Committee to investigate and report upon the sub-
ject. The Government then took upon itself the respon-
sibility of adopting some of the recommendations of the
Committee, and of rejecting others, and he believed that,
in the opinion of a majority of the House, it would be
considered that they had acted in the manner which the
circumstances of the time suggested, as being the most
conducive to the accomplishment of the end in view.
With regard to the quarter-acre clause, upon which the
Noble Lord had laid so much stress, he felt convinced
that the distinction which it made was necessary to be
observed, though every one, of course, must regret that
its operation in some cases should be attended with
hardship to the poor cultivator. The Bill, he appre-
hended, would not be found upon a fair examination to
be open to the charge which the Noble Lord had
brought against it, that it contained no provision of a
permanently beneficial character, because there were
two clauses addressed expressly to the erection of tem-
porary workhouses until permanent ones could be
built. He hoped their Lordships would give these, and
all the other provisions of the Bill, a fair consideration,
recollecting always that its object was not at once to
remove the complication of distress which Ireland now
laboured under, but to meet, as well as legislation could,
the recommendations of the Committee taken in con-
nexion with the evidence before them. In conclusion,
he would submit to their Lordships the expediency of
proceeding at once to a Committee on the Bill, when
be would most willingly entertain any proposition which
might appear to him calculated to improve the present
form of the measure,—(Heir,)