The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-26 00:00:00

a series, but that he should decidedly op-
pose it unless it was the beginning of more compre-
hensive measures. It was then stated that 600,000/.
would be in,utlicient to meet the emergency, and the
84,0001. now in the hands of the Commis,ioners would
harely satisfy the momentary necessity of the period. He
thought that for the sake of their own character, to iter
peal to no other principle, they ought not to suffer
thousands thus to perish from absolute starvation.
There were now upwards of 160,0001. owing to the
contrac ors to supply food, and they had determined
to forward no more food until this debt was discharged.
He trusted, therefore, that while thousands were perishtogs ,
ttiey would not be wasting the time of the country
in e'tiscussions upon an evil which all acknowledged to
'exist in an extreme degree.—(Cheers.)
Colonel SIBTHORP said he did not wish to inter-
rupt the business of the evening, but he would like to
ask any Member who was more conversant with Ireland
than he could possibly presume to be, whether the
free-trade measures had not, in a great degree, been the
cause of distress in Ireland?—(Laughter, and cries of
" Hear,") He could feel for Ireland, and he could
also feel for England ; but he had every
reason for saying that if free trade measures
were continued, England would fed the effects of them
just as much as Ireland had done.—(Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER eid not
think it expedient to go iuto the discussion upon free trade.
So far as Iceland went he thmq,ht it had contributed
very largely to the preservation of life in that country.—
(Loud cries of " Dear, hear.") The effect of free trade
had been to preserve the lives of a greater number
of persons in Ireland than could have been done
when provisions were dearer. The Honourable
Gentleman behind him (Mr. Scrope) had stated that
HI. or lid. a day was sufficient to preserve the life of a
person, but that arose from the importation of' Indian
meal, which had already preserved so many lives in
Ireland— (Hear)—and that was one of those free-
trade measures of which the Hon. Gentleman com-
plained.—(Hear, hear.) He would not, however, pursue
that subject further.—(clear, hear.) He had to warn
the House not to be led away by the statements,
or he should rather say, sentiments, respect-
ing the distress which it was said now
existed, and if he wanted anything to justify such a re-
quest he would find it in the admission made by the lion.
Member for Limerick. That Hun. Gentleman had
stated that 860 deaths had taken place in
the Ballinasloe Union, but he now corrected
himself, and said the truth was that the 860 people were
not dead, but were ill of fever and cholera.—(Hear,
hear.) At the early part of the session the Government
proposed a grant of 50,000/. for the preservation of lice
until some other measure was introdue,d for the purpose of
making Ireland contribute its fair and equal proportion.
It was a doctrine maintained by several Irish Members
that property should contribute to the support of po-
verty, and he believed it was the universal opinion of
the House, when the grant was proposed, that
it was unreasonable to expect that any further demands
could be made upon the Treasury, and that it they were,
it was indispensable that they should look to Ireland
for the repay ment of advances made by the Govern-
ment.—(Hear, hear.) A measure for that purpose
was brought forward, and so far from a reproach being
made ou the Government, he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) was accused of making sentimental speeches
and impassioned appeals to Irish Members to
contribute towards the relief of distress in
Ireland.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The opposition to
granting relief came not from him, but from Irish Mem-
bers, and the Hon. Member (Mr. John O'Connell)
voted against the Rate in Aid, against measures fur
relieving distress, and now he turned round and
complained that he (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) was hard hearted and indifferent to
the distress which existed—(hear, hear.) He
thought that those Irish Members who made such ap-
peals for the sell: ring Irish might hwe accelerated
the progress of the Bill through the Ilotese.—(Hear.)
Now, he thought, under tho,;e circumstances, it was not
true either that Parliament had itself the means or that
Government had not used the means, or that it was ne-
cessary at present to make any further appeal to Par-
liament for further advances for the relief of the distress
which, he was sorry to say, still prevailed to a great
extent in the west of Ireland. The Government would
not shrink from asking the House for a further advance
when they believed it to be necessary to mitigate the
distress, or from appealing to Parliament, if necessary,
for money on the credit of the rate in aid.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE asked what were the real facts of
the case with regard to the matter of the Ballinasloe
Union. Though his 1 1 on. Friend the Member for Limerick
had inadvertently misstated the number of people who
had died in the workhouse, yet 460 or 490 people died
in one week in that workhouse—(Hear, hear)—if his
(Mr. Roche's) recollection served him. They had it
un the authority of the best medical men that those
epidemics, the cholera on the one hand and the fever on
the other, arose from the utter destitution and suffering
of the people. He must say for one, that the Noble Lord
a the head of the Government, and the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had succeeded in throwing from their own
shoulders a great deal of the responsibility of that very
urgent distress. Several Honourable Members who op•
posed all former grants were now pressing upon the
Government the necessity of the case, and calling on
them to relieve the distress in Ireland. Now was the time
for theGovernmt ntcoming forward to relieve that distress;
they had not been able permanently or adequa•ely to
relieve the distrt ss of the people ; many would have
been dead now who were not dead, if the Government
had not done tile little they had done; but they had
not done what, as a Government, they ought to have
done—they had not preserved the lives of the people
of the country, and he said it was the first duty of
a Government to preserve the lives of the people over
whom they ruled.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore he said,
now was the time for bringing forward some comprehen-
sive im-asure; there never was a better opportunity than
the present.
Sir JOHN YOUNG denied having attempted to
underrate the distress prevalent in Ireland. The
facts of the case were that in the Ballinasloe
Union, where great distress had prevailed, cholera and
dysentery hid visited the union, and hundreds of people
had been effected by the epidemic. Some of the auxi-
liary workhouses had been changed into cholera hospitals,
end those people who had taken the cholera were driven
into those auxiliary houses. Now it was shown that the
people died in a few days after they came into the work-
house, and not from the insufficiency of relief.—(hear.)
He concurred with the Noble Lord at the head of the
Government, that it was not in the power of the Go-
vernment, or of any Government, to put an end to the
state of suffering in Ireland.
Mr. ROCHE explain, d.
Mr. E. DENISON remarked that it was easy to say
that a few additional thousands would put an end to the
distress in Ireland, and that the deaths of thousands
rested upon our shoulders.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
The Noble Lord had taken a step which every-
body must approve of, namely, saving thousands
of the people of Ireland from starving. It was
utterly impossible that the great mass of the people coul I
be fed save by the soil on which they had been born,
rather than by means supplied from a distance. Ile
cwualstivaotnioenooff tthheosse w
eilihno had always
order
that
t
the
advocatedpet)plm the
ighthe
enabled to support themselves.—(Fleur, hear.) He
thought it could not be said that the Government bad
been behindhand. He did not think this country
would be disposed to give much more to relieve
Ireland, looking' at the comparatively small
effect and to the amount of money which, he was
sorry to say, had been squandered.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. REYNOLDS did not wish to blame the Govern-
ment or the House for any neglect of the people.
Nevertheless hundreds of thousands had died, or
rather were dying, and within twelve hours'
sail of the great and wealthy capital of Great
Britain and Ireland, hundreds :and thousands of British
subjects were dying of starvation. He did not under-
stand the Honourable Member for Cork to speak in
an offensive spirit of the Honourable Gentleman, but
he was prepared to state that the lion. Gentleman was
underserving of such a charge, as he never saw a chair-
man evince a greater desire to sift the whole question to
the bottom. With respect to Ballinasloe, it appeared that
the population of the town, which was a small one,
was 4,000; and that 4,700 of the population of the
union were in the workhouse. Since a statement
be had made on a former night had been denied,
he must be permitted to say that the guerdians,
whom he charged with the grossest inhumanity, passed
a resolution by which they concentrated the whole of
the disfaed and famished poor within the walls of
the workhouse. They said, in effect, to a destitute per-
fisii,cnt,etdwweriitthy
tmypilheuss, fromyou
sthhaellhooubstal n "Noorwele
,irexuceapret
you
u-
go into the house at a distance of twenty miles," ter
the union contained an area of 2,500 square miles.
He asked the representatives of the British people
whetherof
iltheHas
House
of cm
they were
while these awfulredtositquietlyo slaughters o
nthebenchesf
the people in Ireland were taking place. If one life in Eng-
land was lost in a singular manner, the whole press teemed
with it, while in Ireland thousands were dying every
week without any notice being taken of it. What had the
Rev. Mr. Anderson, the minister ;of Ballinrobe,
stated to the Noble Lord at the head of the Govern-
mentin,eary thatletter washehadexwisrtiitng
written to him? He had stated
that no language he could use could describe
the misery
in
ntihae measures fo that
union.He r
heard in that
Ire-
Land—comprehensive measures for what, he would ask
Why, for skeletons who could not walk. It had been said
house of comprehensive
what had Ireland done for herself ? He would answer
that question by stating that she had paid two mil-
lions and a half in eighteen months for the
relief of her destitute poor. In his opinion the first duty
of the Government was to save the lives of the people,
and he trusted that they would not allow the people of
Ireland to say this, which in fact they were saying, that
tf you cannot govern Ireland let Ireland govern herself.
Sir G. GREY said the Hos. Gentleman who had just
sat down had fallen into error in some of his figures;
while with regard to the charge that the people of
England were cal ous to the sufferings of the
people of Ireland, all ho could say was,
hat in addition to the grants horn the public
noalrgra,heeabru)rdens
and
have a distinct
upon
L parse,o:tdh the
el 1!
lite asstlTa rt
Lae tE. osaf
Ar et
hGI °wail
iraistdhr ye —70"1-1
answer to this question, Was it to be understood that
no further grants would be made to Ireland, whatever
might be the extent of the distress?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had always refused to give
oeutldteGolvredranamde._nt
(Hear, hear.) Government must
ha p 1
prepedee that
reedtuen
maked e r, o
anyci rc u
tina sr tt ah ne
be
sg
allowe
dto take its
own curse, and to meet ail exigencies in their own

way.—(fle.r )
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL rose to explain, but loud
cries of " Ordcr, order" compelled him to resume his
seat.

Colonel DUNNE - then explained that tt. e
reason Irish Members opposed the Ate