The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-11 00:00:00

'4E4 mutual dependence tit tht agricultural and manufac-
turing interests upon each other ; and he considered the
'case of M..rtli'd,r Tydvil an instance of that mutual depen-
rl,ence. Whenever the manufactures of that town were
flourishing, the agricultural_ districts forty miles around
it partook of its prosperity. He would submit the case to
the consideration of the Committee, although the House
was thinly attended; should move that Merthyr Tydvil
be left out of the schedule.—(Hear.)- At a future stage
the till, he should move that Merthyr Tydvil and the
adjoining hamlet be taken as one borough, and as such re-
turn a Member to Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) -
Lord J. STUART should consider hiMself inexcusable
lit I.e omitted to support the prop,sition of the Hon.
-
Gentleman opposite. In I 1, Cardiff contained a polio- •
lotion of more then :3,000 inhabitants. In the present
year it has more than 6,000 ; amongst whom there are
three hundred and sixty ten-pound i ciuseholders. Taking
same of the other pli,er.s pinposed to be annexed to it,
there woull h'o a constituency of more than five hundred
ten-pound householders, should Merthyr Tydvll, as the
Hon. Gentleman proposed, be ontittvii. Looking to the
way in which his Noble rrlbul had proceeded in respect
to the counties of England, he could not find any reason
for his pronedings as to the counties of Wales. Having
eirn so many Members to Staffordshire, why should the
Noble Lord deal so sparingly with Glamorganshire, which
was quite as important as the former 'county, in that which
might he called the staple trade of the .i:ountry--the iron
trade ?

Lord ALTHORP ligreeeel with his Hon. Friend opposite
that Merthyr tedeli was an important town, and that it
ought not to be left wholly to virtual representation. It
wee or that reason that ite(Loref AVi.horp) was desirous
of annexing it to Giulia', which its interests were
closely connect...oh:anti with which it had a direct commercial
commonfe-ition. But if it were said that that repreeenta-
tien \vas not sufficient, he would reply. that on the show-
ing of the Hon. Gentleman opposite himself, the interests
of the agricultural districts forty miles around were inter.
woven with thess. of Merthyr Tydvil, and that therefore
the Meenteore for Glamorganshire and Monmouthshire
wonld he neglecting the intereato of their own constituents
if they neglected those of That town. Comparing it with
the rest of the peitscipality of Wales, he thought it would
have its fair share of representation.
Colonel WOOD explained. -
Mr. JEPHSON was understood to say, that although
desirous of supporting the general principles of the Bill,
he felt bound to vote foe the motion of the Hon. Gentleman
opposites
Mr. TALBOT (as we understood, speaking under the
gallery), supported the amendment.
Sir II HARDINGE said, that if the Noble Lord, the
framer of the Bill, bad any regard to his own principle of
population, he would ttot refuse a Member to a place con-
taining nearly 16,000 inhabitants, at the same time that he
gave two representatives to other places, on the ground that
they had 4,000 inhabitants.—(Hear.) He could not but
feel that nothing was more unfair than to annex to Cardiff
Merthyr Tidvil, a town which lay at the distance of twenty-
five miles from it, While Gateshead, though so near New-
castle, Walt not annexed to that place. He hoped the Go-
%Trots-tont would pay some attention to the petitions which
had been presented upon this subject, especially when it
was recollected that the population of Merthyr Tidvil
amounted, in 1821, to 17,000, and was now no less than
28,000.
Mr. CB.OKER repeated the observations of the pre-
ending speaker, and particularly urged upon the considera-
tion of the Government the population and trade of
Merthyr Tidvil.
Mr. WILLIAMS said, that there were many districts in
South Wales not adequately represented, and he therefore
fully concurred in the proposition of the Hon. Member for
Brecknockshire.
Mr. J. E. STANLEY (as we understood) observed
that Merthyr Tidvil and Cardiff were snore closely con-
nected than were Cardiff and Swansea. For Isis part, he
should support the arrangement made by the Bill ; for in
Wales he thought dist.nce no sufficient ground for object-
ing to a union of towns, since there were already no many
distant places united.
Sir G. MURRAY dissented from the observation of
the Noble Lord opposite (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer), that Glamorganshire was well off for representatives
as compared with the other counties of the Principality.
He confessed he saw no reason why one rule should be ap-
plied to Wales and another to England, or why the repre-
sentation of Ireland or Scotland should be placed upon a
different footing from that of the other parts of the United
Kingdom.
Mr. Alderman WOOD would vote for Merthyr Tidvil
being left out of the present schedule, for tire purpose, at
another stage of the Bill, of proposing that independent
representation be conferred upon it. A great manufactur-
ing place so populous should not be left without a repre-
sentative of its own.
Mr. STANLEY, in reply to an observation of Mr.
Croker's, stated, that in the smith of England the propor-
tion of Members was as one to 20,000 inhabitants, while
in the north the proportion was one to 25,000.
Mr. KNIGHT was sure that Cardiff and Swansea
would rather remain as they were than be placed in the
situation which this change would effect; and it would be
a disgrace to the Bill if Merthyr Tidvil was left without a
representative. It was a town forming the centre of a dis-
trict which contained a population of not less than 184,000.
Lord ALTHORP said, that to join Merthyr Tidvil and
Aberdare might not be a very objectionable arrangement,
but for the present he should wish the clause to remain as
it stood—on bringing up the report a change to tha' effect
might be introduced, provided it was, on reflection, thought
to be advisable.
Mr. CHOKER hoped, that the Noble Lcrd would not
be angry with him and his friends if they now supported
that correction which the Noble Lord hereafter contem-
plated the possibility of introducing.
The Committee then divided--
Ayes l6l,
Noes l'23
Majority in favour ef Ministers -41
The question wan next put—that Lianidloes, Welsh
Pool, Mochynleth, Llalifylling, and Newton, sharing with
Montgomery, stand part of schedule F ; upon which Mr.
C. W. Wvena addressed the Committee, as did Lord
ALTHOICP, but, from the noise in the House and gallery,
the Right Hon. Gentleman was nearly inaudible ; and
though order wan restored when Lord Althorp got up,
yet, from the low tone of voice in which the Noble Lord
suoke, not a word reached the gallery.
The proposition was agreed to.
The next was Narlierth, St. David's, and Fishguard,
sharing with Haverford-west.
Mr. GOULBURN complained of the variations intro•
tluced into the Bill.
Lord ALTHORP replies! at some length, but, as before,
not a word was audible in the gallery.
The next was Tanhy, Wiston, and Milford Haven,
sharing with Pembroke.
Sir E. SUGDEN was about to make some allusion to
the state of Milford, but being interrupted by a cry of
" Oh, oh !" the Hon. and Learned Gentleman proceeded
to comment on that interruption, and said that though
such might be the course adopted by those who were
dragged down there to vote for the Bill, he thought that
those who really wished to discuss the merits of the Bill
had a right to complain of it.
Lord ALTHORP complained. of 'the insinuations that
were being continually thrown out against the Govern-
ment of being influenced by unworthy motives.
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN said that if any persons
were dragged down to that House to vote, they were the
nominees of the' boroughmongers—(Cheers)—who, in
fact, avers tied hand and foot.-4 Cheers.)
Mr. 11013 HOUSE was sorry that the Hon. Alderman
had taken any notice of what had fallen from the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman ; for, though such observations
might become the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, they
were totally unworthy of the regard of the House.
Sir E. SUGDEN said, that if a Member was doing
what he conceives! to be his duty, he thought some little
allowance ought to be made for hint, instead of his being
met by clamour and unpleasant noises.—(A laugh.)
Mr. GOULBURN slid not see that because Hon. Gen-
tlemen thought it necessary to ask for information on what
appeared to be contradictions in the Bill, that they were
necessarily dealing in insinuations.
Sir H. HARDINGE said that it was very easy to cal
the conduct of the Opposition improper; but the fact was,
that they were only attacking the absurdities of the Bill.
It was the business of those who disapproved of the Bill to
show up its imperfections as much as they could.
Tenby, &c. was then agreed tows part of the schedule.
The seventh clause of the Bill was likewise agreed to.
On the question that the eighth clause form part of the
Bill,

Mr. WYNN complained of the system of appointing
the returning officers, as the only compensation they were
to get was, their 'being ineligible for their respective
boroughs for two years.
Lord ALTHORP explained that there was no return-
ing officer, it was to be in the power of the Sheriff to no-
minate one.
Mr. WYNN—Then the Sheriff was to have the power
of disqualifying any person he might please to appoint._
(Cheer,.)
111 r, GOULBURN cwateuded tlaat the returning officer