The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-24 00:00:00

The House then went into Committee on this Bill.

Mr. R. SPOONER proposed several amendments,
which, with several alterations, were agreed to, and the
Bill passed through Committee, and was ordered to be
reported to-morrow.
MARRIAGE BILL

Mr. STUART WORTLEY moved that this Bill, as
amended, should be further considered.
Mr. GOULBURN wished to know what course his
Right Honourable Friend who had the carriage of
the Bill _intended to pursue with respect to the
Bill? If he persisted in the third reading of
the Bill, he should adopt every measure that the
forms of the /louse would allow to prevent its third
rending. lie should not, however' object to its passing
the present stage, provided his Right Hon. Friend did
not press the third reading.
Mr. STUART WORTLEY would have persevered
with the Bill if he had seen any chance of its passing
this session, but as he saw no hope of that, he would ask
the House to enable him to perfect the Bill by passing it
through its present stage.
The Bill as amended was then considered and
agreed to.
CHATTELS PARTITION AND SALE BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee.
COMPOUND HOUSEHOLDERS BILL.

This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed to-morrow at twelve o'clock.
POOR-LAW UNION CHARGES ACT AMEND-
MENT BILL.

This Bill was read a third time and passed.
COLLECTION OF RATES (DUBLIN) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
INCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND) BILL.
The SOLICIROR-GENERAL appeared at the bar,
and stated that the House of Lords desired a conference
with the House of Commons with respect to the altera-
tions that had been made in the amendment of the Lords
to the Bill.

The Members appointed to conduct the conference then
proceeded to the Lords, and on their return
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL informed the House
that they had delivered their reasons to the House of
Lords for disagreeing with the amendments of their
Lordships, and left the Bill and amendments with
them.

DUBLIN IMPROVEMENT (No. 2) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed, after a
short discussion.
NEW FOREST AND WALTHAM FOREST
BILL.

This Bill went through Committee and was ordered
to be reported to-morrow.
ROYAL PAVILION (BRIGHTON) BILL.
This Bill as amended was considered and agreed to,
and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time at
twelve o'clock to-morrow.
PILOTAGE BILL.

This Bill passed through Committee.
THE GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee.
AUDIT OF RAILWAY ACCOUNTS BILL.
The second reading of this Bill was postponed to this
day three months on the motion of Mr. LIAYTER,
The other orders of the day appointed for twelve
o'clock were then disposed of, and the House adjourned
at Half-past Six to Eight o'clock.

-•- -
The House re-assembled at eight o'clock.
. Mr. E WART moved for the following returns, which
were ordered:—" Return, showing what examinations,
or tests of qualification, are required on admission into,
or on promotion of officers in, the Navy and Marines. The
same return as to the Artillery and Engineers. Return,
showing what examinations, or tests of qualifiation, are
required on admission of oandida,tes fur appointment, or
on the promotion of officers, by the different Boards of
Revenue."
"Viscount EBRI'NGTON moved the second reading
of the Metropolitan Sewers Bill, and expressed his in-
tention of proposing the omission of several clauses, and
adding others, when the Bill went into Committee.
The Marriages in Foreign Countries Facilitating Bill
consideration of Lords Amendments, was postponed unti
to• morrow.

STATE OF IRELAND.
Mr. HORSEMAN, pursuant to notice, brought for-
ward the following motion:—" That an humble address
be presented to her Majesty, praying her to take into
her gracious consideration the unhappy state of Ireland,
representing that a crisis of unparalleled magnitude is
afflicting that most wretched country; that the chief
food of her population and the main product of her agri-
culture has failed to a most disastrous extent for several
years; that thereby all classes of her Majesty's subjects
in Irealand have been involved in ruin; that much of
its soil has gone out of cultivation; that the moral and
physical condition of the people is lamentably degraded,
and in spite of unexampled aid from England, vast num-
bers of our fellow-subjects have actually perished from
want. That it is the conviction of this House that
the very vastness of the calamity furnishes a well-
founded hope that a wise legislation, apprehending the
peculiar opportunity hereby offered and skilfully avail-
ing itself of the elements now set free for tho reconstruc-
tion of agricultural relations in Ireland, might lay the
foundation of a prosperity hitherto unknown to that
country. That the House is confirmed in that convic-
tion by the evidence given before Parliament by wit-
nesses of the highest intelligence and of the pro-
foundest knowledge, of the actual state and undeveloped
resources of Ireland. That on a review of that evidence,
this House is constrained painfully to acknowledge that
while the Acts specially framed for the relief of distress
since the commencement of the famine have not realised
the benevolent intentions of Parliament, neither have
those of a more permanent nature been characterised by
a true discernment of the peculiar features of the present
crisis, and the establishment of any comprehensive
policy adequate to the emergency. That this House
humbly prays her Majesty to direct the special and
careful attention of her Majesty's Government to the
evidence which has been laid before Parliament, feeling
assured that the ability, information, and practical sug-
gestions therein displayed, furnish ample materials for
a legislation at once solid, profound, and regenerative."
The session was now drawing to a close, and the ques-
tion might fairly be asked, what had they done for
Ireland ? Legislation had been active, without pro-

ducing corresponding ia,nnericial results. When the
House mat in Febru -ay Ireland was in a state of de'
spair; was it one of hops now that they were bring'
ing their legislatorial labours to a close ? When
they met the condition of Ireland was one of in
increasing difficulty, suffering under the aggravated trials
of a-fourth year's famine. Sixty per cent, of the peen"'
non was receiving relief, and according to the evidence
of Mr. Thisle ton, Mr. O'Sullivan, Colonel Clarke, and
others, the people were in the lowest state of social de-
gradation, and committing crimes of a character hitherto
unknown—death, desolation, and despair everywhere,
abounded. It was not famine, but careless and crimina"
legislation that was the cause of this state of things, and
the poor-law, which Committees and Commissions ba
condemned, was the principle in magnifying the lament'
able destitution that pervaded the land. There wagon°
among other exaggerations which he wished to correct
—namely, that they had given so much to the starving
Irish, and that notwithstanding they were ungrateful.--
(Hear, hear.) He denied that the outcry in this as;
was founded on fact, Four millions, as we understood
the Hon. Member to say, had been advanced in 1846 to
meet the pressure which famine had created, and fat
which Ireland paid interest; and yet, while such an out'
cry was raised on that subject, they had given authority
for 260 millions to be raised for the making of railway's.
—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Then came their legisir
tion of 1847. It was owing to the impatience and irri'
tability created in the public mind of this country',
through the shameful waste of the relief fund, that in
1847, the people being weary of the subject of Ireittnue
that House was induced to retract the decision it hs"
come to, with reference to a poor-law. The Act"
the Relief Act—making Ireland responsible for ~,
maintenance of its poor, under the awful circumstances
in which she was placed, was then passed—an Act whieh
e
was brought in to satisfy the clamours of the press--.....t"
gratify English prejudices and English selfishness. a
(Hear, hear.) Throughout the injustice which hail
marked the conduct of England towards Ireland, tber
was nothing in the history of the two countries so inir
rious to Ireland as the Act of 1847—(Hear, hear)--;
making, as it did, a poor-law, in the first instance, tb
means of supporting famine.---(Hear, hear.) Notbing
could be more unjust and more calculated to increase the
misery of the country—and yet they proceeded, in the
0
face of all experience, to make a poor-law applicable td
famine I Mr. Nicholls, their own oracle, said -he ha
always felt it impolitic to attempt, by means of a Pee;
law, to meet a famine. That was common sense. There
was no reason, in such a case, why a proprietor on
spot should be taxed any more than a proprietor
distance.—(Hear, hear.) A national rate would certain 4
1
be the fairest. To tell a proprietor at such a moment 4
support pauperism, was to reduce him to the condition"
a pauper himself. Their law of '47 was their first initinc
tice. Their next was, making a provision of out-el°,
relief at such a time, when they had discarded the pr
ciple in England. The Honourable Member here que";,,
the opinion of Lord Althorp, in 1834, condemunteilt
of the operation of the poor-laws then ref
England, observing that the system of out-door
condemned by Lord Althorp, under the old poor-leleer
England, differed in no way from the system of outesco
relief afforded in Ireland. He next quoted the spinets.
of the Lord Chancellor (Lord Brougham), equally ce,he
demnatory with Lord Althorp, of the operation of to
poor-laws in England. Now let the House hear is9g,
Mr. Senior said. He said that if they extended the slot
tern of out-door relief in Ireland, it would work as tie
mischief in Ireland in ten years as it had worked in P"Ti.
land in 300 years, and he added that it would ultimate
lead to the confiscation of the land. Mr. Gulsoice,
'-'
pressed himself to a similar effect. The rental of s'
land, previous to the famine, was about six milliolleje;
and when they found that the poor-rate collect ,A
amounted to about a fourth of the rental concert,'
in better times, they might see how nearly it had inflic;,o,
the evil which the witnesses he had alluded to had Po
it
dieted. He thought he had shown that the famine, ,ng
not the cause of the evils which Ireland was suffer'ir
from, although it had been the pretext for unfair lard
lation. They proceeded to apply to Ireland rileea,ooo
which had been altogether discarded in Englanotor
the principle of sending damaged wares to an inferel
market.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then rei 'er, to
to the union of Balling, and read returns and evidetie.`o
show the ruined condition of that union. It was ob 010,
that these evils could not be got rid of without th e apt
troduction of fresh proprietors and of capital, ar.dbese
statements they heard given ofimprovements having fee
effected without new proprietors, and the infusion. -n,
pital, were only delusive and fallacious. Banana- vivell
sample of the other unions in Ireland. It bad pot
stated that the security of person and property cow. ,`,,tion,
co-exist with general destitution, and general desseb'eso
was the condition of Ireland. Imperfect agricultur ateti
a reliance upon the potato had been one of the, 'toot
causes of Ireland's misery—the peasant was tango id
to look to wages, but to the land for his supeort_;froo;
while the British statesman turned away in despalifote
the contemplation of a state of things which be 'tie°
himself unable to cope with, a famine occurred,
might possibly lead to changes, and point to rest je It
for the sad evils Ireland had so long suffered uncle.% in
was admitted by Mr. Nicholls that the populs6t°
many parts of Ireland was excessive, and that no
,sPpeltr
law would remedy that state of things. The Pwogre'
tion must be reduced either by death or et lot
tion, or it must ruin the country. The
process was at present going on in Ireland-
siater
,
Nicholls had pointed out the necessity the
of increasing the demand for labour by gas'
introduction of more capital, or by reducing the nitssbese
of the population by emigration. It was found, for
. ever, that the r.oiliriee given during last sessil3,p-,,ia
enabling the landlords and landed proprietors to
loans of capital were inoperative, as until those li
A- itif
lities were limited no intelligent landlord wouli•-ttee
out capital upon improvements. Every Conaralsr •
since 1832—and there had been almost every r.,ded
Committee on the state of Ireland—had reconirnefoir
emigration. That question was not, however, 700,
sively an Irish question ; it came to their own )3'o,
from the uncommon influx of Irish labourers, vi of
according to Mr. Nicholls, tended to lower the ratet of
wages, and reduce the level of the English to te'doet
the Irish labourer. In Ireland they had a reclizeco
population, and in their colonies they had a vast field
profitable employment for all the labourers that c the'
possibly be sent there. With all these motives, ortoilf
grounds of policy, economy, and humanity, England al
persevered in her blind and short-sighted polici:
in spite of her vast wealth and resources, in elwelf
the vast sums of money she had squandered urn e
land, she was compelled to see that country ruine„a ft
all its classes and a sacrifice of life unexampled, 0-i„
er
in the case of famine. Was there ever such folly, a try
and crime? It was in evidence that the preprieter'4l4l''
Ireland were ready to imitate and assist in a ale-ctlf
matic emigration from their estates—they were re-er
to lay out their capital in such a scheme ; but t-b(,/
again they demanded a limited liability. And :et 11
would only get a limit by a healthy state of Ec'enl-t ea
and a reduction of pauperism. What was wa;
in Ireland was the English poor-law as it was re'
amended. England had double the ulation ell, en
land, yet the pauperism of Ireland was td
in England, while the rateable property of the de d
was eight times that of Ireland, and she had no tea t be
manufactures. A small area had been adopted as ,10
basis of the poor-law in England ;on it depelidew
great security of a good administration of the law' ;9l'
then refuse the same system to Ireland, where it Iv- es,
much more wanted? It • tho 00
was said that reducing ,
greater
itati
in Ireland would tend to increase evictions--that fee
the only plausible argument put forth against the,. 0,
duction of the areas, but the evidence on the table to
the House proved that evictions augmented according jso
the size of the union. And it naturally was so, beca;
the responsibility of the proprietor was less in ale 00
than it would be in a small area. As the posetoe
s pd
been the ruin of Ireland, so he believed they would
regeneration only in limiting the districts for th© 0'
ministration of the poor-law. The ordinary state sg,
things in Ireland was most lamentable and distress eof
From the time of the Union she had been in a stel;
turbulence—assassinations were committed in open ,ori
and the murderers were screened by the people. IT AO
reotion Acts and Arms Acta were passed continually uc ear
to 1829. Then emancipation was granted, but not a Y jef
passed without a Coercion Bill and Arms Act, until ti
ei
arrived at the suspension of the constitution of last p iof
What might they economise by a wise administratiel jof
the law in Ireland? He asked whether the conditio'
this
Ireland was not a scandal and a reproach to s 0
country, and a disgrace to the age ? There we lot
great responsibility upon the Irish Members; it was rOO
them to relieve a starving nation from suffering unde efeo
accumulation of misery. Her sufferings have orcB
lightened her sins—her peasant no longer puts in f beg'
the wild justice of revenge, and her aristocracy was 1 tee
gared.' The one thing that Ireland needed was eta
men; she wanted eyes to see the remedy for her wa erg'
and wisdom to apply it. It was by the Irish Merah the
laying aside party differences, to protest against . 110
system of inaction followed by the Government, gag for
ask the Minister of the Crown whether all his policy lea
the relief of Irish distress was exhausted. lie apPea
to the financial reformers in that House if this was 11(
case which required their support, and whether the ors
ation of property in Ireland would not be much 'or
beneficial than any surveys they could effect. He or
pealed to the commercial party in that House for err
port. Would not the loss even of Lancashire and Y. 01
shire be a smaller evil than this prostration of a coo Ape
and an entire people, and the consequent expatril ato
of labour and capital to foreign fields. He appeale elP'
the representatives of the agricultural interests for eels
port, and he asked them from whence the cry of dial fie
came in a more agonising manner than from Ireland- eitd
appealed to the Irish representatives in a peculiar 00
especial degree. A heavy responsibility rested u to
them. He admitted that they had groat difficulties f'
contend with, and that there had been something Li," ese'
indisposition to discuss Irish questions in the SC l 0';
but still they were there as the representatives an' 0'
vocates of a nation whose distress and destitution hose
unparalleled in history, whose soil was waste, w pre'
productive energies were paralysed, and which
sented one howling and hopeless waste of penile! ea':
Ireland called upon them to relieve her from this ec her
tion—to develope her resources, and give play to 'ally'
energies. He had, in opening this question, caret
avoided touching upon questions on which the A , eon-
Members were divided.—(Hear, hear.) lie had
fined himself to the social evils of Ireland Bien 1
(Hear.) He knew there were other causes of evi
ibis
that country—(Hear, bear)—but he wished upon .
occasion that the Irish Members should act unties 01,
Above all, he appealed to higher motives than any' Pa 0.;
or partisan sympathy—to the honour and hun;nref, ,pd
the empire.—(Hear, hear.) The condition of or,
was a disgrace to the Government and the Lefirrs
which permitted it to exist. He knew it would n_u_ the
that his motion was intended to cast censure tiri,°"_et er'
Government, but he did not so intend it. It had ref
,rat
ence to the policy of the previous as well as
ato aPf (.4
Government, and therefore could not be take
assed th
to them exclusively. He said the measures P. tr
of "1
session were not adequate for the wants -- the Press

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