The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-24 00:00:00

petent to form an opinion than we were two years ago, Touching but lightly, as lam obliged to do at this hour,
and how does the. case stand? Your theory has blown I have eiven you reseon to see how—when their theory
up, and your ea 2e bee broken down.—(Letighter.) had eseotee uppepular, es it has, by the consent of the
Your ferst ease of eominersial ineouvenienee was said lesible Lord, with a great part of the public—their facti•
to be in the high freights welch were paid by the con- tious ease has entirely melted away under discussion
sumors in England, in consequence, as you said, of the and the influence of time and truth.—(Hear.) Of all
restrictions placed upon the shipping by the navigation the pleas brought forward for this great change, take any
laws. But the last thesis we heard maintained by an one singly, and who would recommend it ? On the
Hon. Member, who is supposed by some Gentlemen to plea of commercial ineonvenitatee of the heavy amount
ho a great authority—l mean the lion. Member for of freights, a member of the Government has proved
Westbury -(Mr. Wilson) was, that these restrict ens that they are not higher in England than anywhere else.
have not raised freights at all.—(A laugh..) It has Your only case is the case of Canada, that asks for a
been shown that the eases in which they have that elf. et ss. duty. Would you recommend it on that single ground,
are exceptional cases. I did not expect to hear again or on the plea of continental menace and foreign compe-
until I heard from the light Hen. Gentleman the Mem- tition? Your strongest continental point is Prussia, and
ber for Ripon, to-night, of the celebrated cochineal case. Prussia does not exist as a Government.—(Hear, hear.)
"Ground nuts," I believe, the Rght Hon. Gentleman But it is not any of these singly, it is the aggre-
forgot.—(A laugh.) But he told us himself hoer these gate of these pleas that is to be the foundation of
petty and exceptional inconveniences could be met. One this revolution.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") You got
Gentleman had given us to-night a list of enumerated up your case in a hurry, and you attempted to pass it
articles which may be applied to the long voyage trade, last year before it was understood. Dust was thrown
to remove all those inconveniences. \Vie n the Right into the eyes of the public by your talk about the prin-
Hon. Gentleman the Member for the Univers ty of Ox- ciples of free trade, with which they were still bewil-
ford (Mr. Gladstone), omitted to bring forward those der, d; about the discontent of the colonies and the
propositions which we all looked for, I eas surprised to menaces of foreign powers; and on every occasion they
hear the Right Hon. Gentleman say, on the authority of were told that it was necessary to what the Noble Lord
some anonymous paragraph, that it was quite evident the usually calls the "settlement of the question."—(A
shipowners would never consent to any change. I regret laugh.) And what is this perpetual sett!ement of the
ted to hear that observation made by the Right Hon. Gen- question? It is to settle the questions that you have
tleman, because I know it has produced a very injuriousef- yourselves unsettled.— (Cheers.) The Noble Lord looks
feet in many quarters, giving evidence on the part of the about for a question for the session, and he finds among
shipowners of this country of bigoted obstinacy, and, his trading allies some etude jejune theory. He takes
coming from so high an authority as the liSght Hen. up the theory; there is immediate agitation; and having
Gentleman, naturally not being doubted for its accuracy. produced agitation, he comes forward as a great states-
-(Heir.) I happen to hold in my hand the last report man to apeease it.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) That
of the Shipowners' Society, dated the sth of March of is the whole policy of the Whig C'suvernment.—
this year; and what do I read in the conclusion of their (Cheers and laughter.) Bat then they have a great
address to the people of this country? They here ex- all) with whom they are perfectly satisfied—the Right
press their readiness to discuss, at the proper time, fully lion. Gentleman who has decidt d between reaction
and impartially, all questions bearing on the practical and progress, and is determined to stand by pro-
amendment of the navigation-laws—they consider them- gress.—(A laugh.) But progress to what ? progress
selves precluded from now offering any special sugges- to paradise or progress to the devil?—(Loud cheers Ind
tions; but guided, they observe, by principle, they avow laughter.) The people of England do not want to hear
they will be ready hereafter frankly to state their opi- any longer those indefinite windy phrases of progress.
nions, impartially to weigh those of others, and to con- —(Hear, hear.) They want to know what you are pro-
cede with liberality when they cannot convince on all grossing to—what you are at—what you mean to accom-
points not involving fundamental principles.—(Hear, plish; and then they will calmly weigh whether that
hear.) Now, after such an expression of opinion, so which you have promised is not more than you can pay.
recently made by so important a society on this sub- —(Hear, hear.) We want, in short, to know from the
ject, I must express ny surprise that the Eight Honour- disciples of progress what they are after. The Man-
able Gentleman should have lent the high authority of chester school are men, they tell us frankly what they
his justly influential name to the expression of an are after.—(Hear, hear.) They have told us they will
opinion of so contrary and injurious a character.-- attack the Church, destroy the land tenure, completely
(Hear, hear.) Well, then, what comes of the case of change the electoral law, and do a number of other
colonial discontent? I cannot understand, though I have things that may be perilous, that may be fatal to the
listened with great attention to this debate, that the country, but at least, when advocating with them, we
instances adduced this year on that head much enrich know what we are about; we deal with manly foes, and
the factitious case of the Government. True it has been we hope and believe that we shall defeat them.—(Loud
shown, and no one has denied, that there was on the cheers.) But these dilettante disciples of progress are very
part of the English colonies, a feeling snore or less dangerous opponents; and I shall extremely regret that
diffused that the repeal of the navigation-laws would one such mind, practical and experienced as the Right
operate some advantage in their favour. The Hon. Hon. Gentleman (Sir J. Graham), is determined to take
Baronet referred to the memorial from Australia—a his stand where he is—(A laugh)—because I, from this
memorial which I believe has never been presented to moment, must express my reluctant regret, that where
the House. It is not a new document. I alluded to it be is in consequence he will remain.—(A laugh.) The
last year in some observations I took the liberty of Right Honourable Gentleman the Member for Ripon
making, because it so happtned that in consequence of cannot acknowledge that public opinion is against this
that memorial I received from the harbour-masters of proposition of the Government, because he says he does
the ports in that part of the world statements which not find the Members for the outports against it. The
were afterwards given on oath before the House of Lords, Right Honourable Gentleman seems to hold the right of
from which it appeared that between the Ist of January, petition in great contempt. He says, " I find the Mem-
-1846, and the 30th of June, 1847, sixty-one ships cleared hers for these outports voting for the measure," though
from London for Sydney, of which eighteen loaded with theirhe constituents are calling upon the House to reject
a cargo home, and the other forty three proceeded to propostiton.—(Her hear.) The Right Honourable
other places in search of freight. Within the same Gentleman says, " Where are the two Members for
period twenty-seven vessels cleared for Hobart Town; Liverpool ? Are not their names in the majority ? The
fourteen loaded home—the others came home in ballast; Members for Glasgow, they also support, notwithstand-
twenty-five cleared to Port Philip; twelve came home ing the petitions from that city, the measure of the Go-
with cargoes, the other thirteen without. Between vernment. But it is possible men may have been
November, 1846, and June, 1847, twenty-one cleared elected by constituencies wihout any frank or detailed ex-
for Port Adelaide from London, of which seven only oh- position of their opinions on the subject.—(Hear.) Men
tained cargo. I want to know who, in the face of such may have been sent to this House—as lam sorry to
facts as those, can argue that our colonies are suffering say my experience of the last few years shows can be
from want of ships, or that any alteration in the naviga- done—pledged to support a particnlar policy, and when
tion-laws can supply them with carrying at a cheaper they have come here they may have opposed it.—
rate. I will not dwell en the West India colonies, be- (Cheers.) I do not know what passed between the
cause the Government feel that that part of the case has Members for Liverpool and their constituents at the last
already broken down. If this question was settled last election. It is possible that between them and their
year there might have been some argument on the part constituents no communication took place on the subject
of those colonies; but the Government admit in the of the navigation-laws. If so, it was a great neglect on
same breath that the feeling in those colonies is very the part of the electors of Liverpool, and they deserve
much reversed. True that in Trinidad there is the old the treatment they have received.—(Loud laughter.)
feeling in favour of repeal—by the bye, there was a me- With regard to the Member for Glasgow, I have reason
tnorial from Guiana in favour of the repeal of the na- to believe that the misconception is of a more unfortu-
vigation-laws; but it is generally understood in this nate nature, because I have been informed that the
House that the moment the West India colonies found Honourable Gentleman had a very frank communication
that the change in the navigation laws would not alter with his constituents, and left them with an undoubted
their relative position in the market with Cuba and the impression that he was coming to London to vote
other Spanish colonies, all desire for such a change against this BilL—(Hear, hear.) I have no doubt
ceased.—(Hear, hear.) One important case—the most the Honourable Gentleman has good reason for
important—that of Canada, remains behind; but that changing his opinion; but when he is confronted here
has been treated to night in a manner that will not soon with the assertion that the opinion of Glasgow—
be forgotten in this country.—(Hear, hear.) True it is which is most hostile to this measure—cannot be
that the Legislative Assembly of Canada has petitioned opposed to it because its Members have voted for it, lam
the Crown in favour of the repeal of the navigation- justified in referring to these well-known facts.—(Hear,
laws; but in the same document the same assembly has hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir J. Graham),
required justice to its industry—in the same document in the third place, thought fit to change the whole tone
the same assembly has required the re-institution of that of the debate by referring to a speech delivered by a
ss. duty which they enjoyed—(Hear)—and if that docu- Noble Lord in another place. He has, as it were,
meet is in the hands of the Government, no argument in changed the venue on the issue before us.—(Hear, hear.)
favour of repeal of the navigation-laws can be drawn It was not the navigation-laws of England, but the corn-
that by the surest rules of logic is not equally an argu- law of England, that was brought upon the carpet; and
ment in favour of the ss. duty.—(Hear, hear.) But we it was not so much the act of a Government that does
have been informed by a high authority on this subject exist as the possible existence of a Government that does
to-night, that if the ss. duty is not given back to Canada, not exist that excited the fervid oratory and impassioned
in all probability Canada will cease to belong to the els quence of the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear,
British Crown. What great responsibility, then, was and a laugh.) The Right Hon. Gentleman was some-
there in that statesman who counselled you to disturb what inconsistent in his taunts. Re said—" If you
the arrangement you had made with respect to the im- doubt the wisdom of the policy which lam proud to
portation of corn from Canada; and is it possible that have had a part in carrying, why do you not come for-
any one can believe—and still least of alt I should have ward and challenge its propriety? Why not ask us to
expected the Right Honourable Member for Ripon— retrace our steps?" And then, immediatelyafter, theleight
that any paltry change in your navigation-laws Hon. Gentleman says, "I look upon this division to-
can reconcile the people of Canada to your night as a stand-up fight, upon the question whether
rule, which they feel has taken away that protection (Isis Government shall advance or whether it shall retro-
from their industry, and has in fact virtually dis grade; and I regard the whole protection system as at
solved every political tie that subsisted between you?— stake to-night." If that be the case, if that be the
(Hear.) It is well the people of England should know struggle you are now going to enter upon, the Right
to-morrow the solemn opinion of one of their greatest Hon. Gentleman is scarcely justified in saying we are
public men. It is well they should know to-morrow that avoiding the contest.—(Cheers.) I can promise the
they must be prepared for rebellion in Canada—that they Right Hon. Gentleman that he shall not have to COM-
must be proper, dto lose that proud possession of the plain that ample opportunities are not given him for yin-
Crown, and mainly because the people of Canada have dicating the policy for which he is responsible—(Hear,
been deprived of that just protection to their colonial hear)—but I for one wish to avail myself of the expo-
industry which they enjoyed.—(Hear, hear.) But rience of the last three years—it is a magic time; it saw
I cannot believe that the people of England can for a the foundation of your changes; let them be nearly
moment suppose their coming forward to offer the Ca- completed, and then we can decide upon your policy by
nadians some shuffling change in the navigation code of the very test to which you appeal. The Hon. Gentle-
England can be any compensation to the people of Ca- man the Member for Midhurst (Mr. Walpole) has called
nada, who feel so acutely on this subject, arid who, ac- the attention of the House to the consideration of the
cording to the Right Hon. Gentleman, are prepared to great stake that depends upon our votes this night. He
act so decidedly.—(Hear, hear.) Well, the colonial case has reminded you of the large amount of capital in-
is not stronger this year. It rests on Canada, and on a vested in this trade. He has reminded you of the vast
docutneat wich, if it
,proves anything, proves that the revenue expended thereby in the wages of labour. Let
policy of the House of Commons is to protect the in- me remind you also of one statistical fact which is true,
dustry of Canada.—(Hear, hear.) And what is the and which is most interesting. Take all the male opera-
foreign case? The Foreign-office has been extremely tives in all the factories of Great Britain, all adults, and
busy on this subject, as if the Noble Lord 'vistaed to all beneath 18 years of age, and add them together, and
prove to the continent that hereafter the House of Lords the total computation will not in number amount to the
had little to do with the Government of this country. number of the merchant seamen of England.—(Hear,
The moment Hon. Gentlemen come to a vote—which hear.) The interest, therefore, is a great interest.—
even in this Parliament I have proved they have some- (Hear.) Called upon to effect this great change, let
times repented, for already the majority has dwindled me remind you of some circumstances that have occurred
down ~to half the amount--(Hear, hear)—a Secretary since the commencement of that term of three years
of state instructs our diplomatic agents, from which has so often been referred to as the test of political
Vienna to Vent zuela, to communicate with foreign Go- and economic truth. Since that term commenced the
vernments on the reciprocal alteration of their maritime poor-rates of England have increased 17 per cent.;
code, on the same principle that the year before we corn- since that term commenced, it appears by the
municated with the Consuls of England for the purpose last returns of the property tax, the capital
of obtaining the most authentic and accurate information of England has been diminished more than
respecting the bad conduct and qualities of English sea- 100,000,0001.; since that term commenced, it appears
men.—(Hear.) And here I must say that the Hon. that the average increase in the savings' banks has dimi-
Member for Huntingdon was very much misrepresented nished exactly one-half.—(Hear, hear.) These, too, are
by the Noble Lord, for the Noble Lord argued the case facts; these, too, are details of great interest in the dime
as if my Hon. Friend had conceded that the masters and cession of these questions.—(Hear, hear.) If this be
seamen cf our mercantile marine were guilty of the con- not the handwriting cn the wall, I know not where
duct and deserved the calumnious expressions which we kings and senates are to seek the sources of warning and
find in the official papers of the Government. But what admonition.—(Hear, hear.) I agree with the Right
was the answer of foreign states to the invitation of Hon. Gentleman (Sir James Graham) that there is more
the Foreign-office? The dispatch of the Prussian Minis- at stake upon your vote to-night even than the naviga-
ter holds out no prospect of coming to any arrangement, tion code of England, precious as it may be. You can
no wish to enter into any negotiation; on the contrary, by your vote this night beat down that great statistical
he adverts to the altered state of affairs, and says that, conspiracy that has so long tampered with the fortunes
"in the position in which this country finds itself it is and trifled with the destinies of a great country.—
impossible for us at present to enter into any arrange- (Cheers.) You can beat down that great statistical con-
ment with you;"—at the first blush, an excellent argu- spiracy that commenced its labours by proving that the
meat for not precipitating alteration and passing this English peasant was a serf, and consistently continued
measure. But I read that document in this way. To me them by demonstrating that the British sailor was a sot.
it says, " Things are unsettled; but if the Whig Govern- —(Hear, hear.) If you by your vote to-night commend
ment remains in office—if we succeed in our foreign po- your patriotic:labour to the grateful sympathy of a grate-
Hey, and establish a national flag—if we appropriate the tut people, then will you, by the recollection of your past
harbours of Schleswig-Holstein, of the Northern States, prosperity, by the memory of your still existing power,
and mouths of the Elbe—if by the favour of the English for the sake of the most magnificent colonial empire in the
Government we become an important maritime power— world, now drifting among thebreakers, for the sake of the
then we shall be prepared to open negotiations with you, suffering commerce of Great Britain, by the wrongs of a
and to stand upon our rights."—(Hear, hear.) It is un- betrayed agriculture, by the hopes of Ireland, wtillaydoeu.
necessary that at this hour I should touch upon the not, by the vote you are now coming
other continental powers, though every case is I think cision which may to morrow smooth. thtoe'caarreriwvoeran conn-
ive faith and energy to native
an additional argument in favour of our hesitating, and teriance of Britishl toil,
g hope to the tortured in-
)address the
against any precipitate movement. I must say a few labour, and at ast administer
(nLd
eoauvdocuhr eeedrtso.
words, of course, upon the remarkable case of the dustry of a sufferingEr reomsepiarne.d—e
bet, not be,i,ng: able
_to obtain a hearing, he,
United States. I would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman Mr. CAMPBELL
the President of the Board of Trade if his Government House;
RUSSELL
E seconded
hored t
hthee
. moved that the debate
had been last year in the same position with the United amiastloudcries of Divide I"
States as it is at present, would he have brought forward be adjourned. Mr.
Hon. Gentleman would
this measure, or made the expression of opinionnte
as it was very desirable that
foreign states a part of his case? I waes
flightst
not persist in his motion,
d the LordMJ.°IFtUF
G ()a!: rn Government' the House should come to a division that night.
other night with indulging in imaginathiev
sometimes confidential, The motion for adjournment was withdrawn, and the
sionally in reply by a member of t
but when I vocal to mind the
trilling and even house divided
I always interesting, and occasional
For the third
solemn manner in which the Might
ns of the Govern-
Llonourable Gen-
Against it reading 275
•••
tleman revealed the communications
•••
a
-.• ••
which2l4
most
with the United States—the conversations
in the The Bill was then read third
e most irreg
manner were brought ular Maority —4l
with Mr. Bancroft,
forwsrd to influence the debate
public document • and Mr. WAWN then moved the insertion of the follow•
and which never appeared in a p ;and ing clause :—And be it enacted, that no British ship en-
when I recollect that this year all we know of the %ties-
gaged in the foreign trade, which shall have discharged
its cargo at any port of the United Kingdom, shall be
the United States and Mr. Bancroft is omitted from the
elements - compelled, under the Act 6th Geo. 4, e. 125, to take
markable cases I ever recollect, and shows us the ine pilot on board, while proceeding in ballast to any port of
the United Kingdom.
penance of not deciding precipitately on this question—
(Hear)—and the great advantage we should gain by Mr. LABOUCHERE felt bound to resist it.
postponing, if only for a twelvemonth, the settlement. After a few words from Mr. Hume and Mr. Macenze
lam not surprised that Mr. Bancroft was so silent.
have a document here which I will not read to the con, recommending the Hon. Member to withdraw hie
motion, it was negatived without a division.
House, as every Hon. Gentleman will soon obtain it.
Its title is the "Report of the The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
Committee of Ways and
Means on thesubject d time
The Indictable Offences (Ireland) Bill and the Sum..
of American Manufactures," pre-
sented to Congress on thelast day many Convictions (Ireland) Bill were read a third
and passed.
. of February Ibis year,
when General Taylor, standing on the steps of the Go-
vernment-house at Washington, must have had that docu-
ment in his pocket, and no doubt its contents inspired that
peculiar protective character of his inaugural address
with which all Hon. Gentlemen are familiar. But one part
of this report is very germane to this discussion, as it
expresses in a solemn manner the opinion of the Com-
mittee, which for four years has given its tone to the
opinion of America, on the navigation-laws, and re-
commends that no change or modification should be
adopted under any circumstances.—(Hear, hear.)

RATE IN AID BILL.
On the report on the Rate in Aid Bill being
brought up,
Captain JONES objected to the mode in which the
Government were going to increase the taxation of Ire-
land at that moment. His belief was that the rate could
not be collected, and that by farming it they endangered
the whole system of poor-laws in Ireland. It would
create dissatisfaction in the whole of the north of Ireland,
which they would not easily overcome.
Mr. BROTHERTON said he hoped that they were