The Sun.
London, England, 1836-08-09 00:00:00

justice in different parts of the country. This was the rea
son why he would continue the duty uyon newspapers, and
why he would not adopt the suggestion of the Noble and
Learned Lord. The Noble and Learned Lord said the pro-
visions already in existence had always been found ineffectual.
He ( Viscount Melbourne) would ask whether solvent defen-
dants had always been found ? He had been told that
there was a portion of the London press which indulged in
a great degree in scurrility and abuse ; and when parties
asked Counsel whether they could proceed against them,
the answer was, that the two registered proprietors were
not solvent, and that the parties would, in all probability, be
left to pay their own costs. It was for this reason that the
clause was introduced ; but he did not contend so much for
the clause itself, which was introduced under the circum-
stances stated by the Noble and Learned Lord, as he 61
for the fact that the clause was proposed by one section of
the House of Commons—( Hear, hear)—and that it was
not received by one party ; but, on the contrary, that it
was adopted by the whole House of Commons—(Hear)--
and by those Hon. Gentlemen who were supposed to act
with the Noble Lord and his party in opposition to the
Government. The clause was introduced upon the third
reading, and the only person who objected to it was the
Hon. Member for Bath. Only fifteen Members, how-
ever, could be found to vote against it. The Noble and
Learned Lorned said that a very great capital was invested in
these concerns, and that they carried on a very great
trade. He (Viscount Melbourne) would ask, why that
trade should be conducted on different principles? or why
Noble Lords should resist the application to this trade of
those principles on which the country was anxious that,
every other trade should be conducted ? All bankers
were bound to register their names at the Stamp Office ;
and why should the press, if it were a great trade, be con-
ducted on principles different from any other trade ?
(Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord said
that many of the proprietors were women or minors. Per-
sons engaging in any trade were liable to these disabilities ;
and he would confess that he could not see why the press
should suffer injury if those who conducted it were better
known.---(Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord
greatly respected the Whigs of other times. He had a
much greater respect for them than for those who acted in
the present day—for the mysterious power—
" Ipse pater, media nimborum in nocte, corusca '
Fulmina molitur dextra: quo maxima motu
Terra tremit."
He (Viscount Melbourne) was desirous of dispelling this
nimboruni : and seeing who it was that sat on this myste-
rious throne, and exercised such a power in the country.
—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble Lord said, considering
the great increase of the Press, and considering the men
of learning, ability, and talents connected with it, what per-
son could consider it derogatory to belong to it ? This was
very true, and it was impossible for any man of sense to en-
tertain a different opinion. It was also said that parties
who held Conservative principles would not have anything
to do with Radical Newspapers. This also was true, but
there might be men not so honourable, and he (Viscount
Melbourne) presumed that it was not in support of such
characters that the Noble and Learned Lord put himself
forward upon the present occasion. A foolish fellow might
raise himself from a humble station in life to a much
higher one—such as Member for a county ; and if he
were offended that his vanity was hurt or his veracity im-
peached by a discovery, he (Viscount Melbourne) should
think that it would hardly be necessary to legislate for
the purpose of affording such a person protection. He,
however, wished to call the attention of the Noble and
Learned Lord and of the House to the clause itself ; but
at same time he must impress most anxiously upon their
Lordships the effect which their rejection of the clause
might have upon the whole Bill—( Hear, hear)—the in-
fluence which the measure itself was to have upon the state
of society throughout the country, upon the state of the
Press, and upon everthing connected with that subject.
If, indeed, there were any such objections to the clause
as had been stated by the Noble and Learned Lord—if it
were likely to inflict any injury upon the liberty of the Press
—ii it would be the means of introducing any tyrannical
principles—if it were so inconsistent with the principles of
liberty as had been represented by the Noble Lords oppo-
site, he undoubtedly would not support the clause, even
though the consesequence should be the loss of the whole
measure. But there was no real valid objection to the
clause ; and, that being the case, he would beg of their
Lordships to pause before they proceeded in the first in-
stance to hazard a measure upon the main principle of
which they all agreed by adopting so rash a course as that
which was now proposed.—( Hear.)

,
The Duke of WELLINGTON said the Noble Lord
had stated to the House no very strong reasons for adopt-
ing the clause, founded either upon the contents of the
clause itself or upon its effect on the remaining part of
the measure. It was quite obvious that the clause was
that which had been described by his Noble and Learned
Friend ; it was a tack upon a money Bill--(Hear, hear)
—it was attached to the measure for the purpose of be-
ing passed against certain individuals who were pro-
prietors of Newspapers—(Hear, hear)—but it was not a
clause that was at all neceosary for the purposes of the
Act., nor was it the proposition of the Government.—
(Cheers.) The Noble Viscount had said that it had
not been proposed in the first instance ; but they had
adopted it, and he now had begged their Lordships to
agree to the clause, because he urged that if they re-
jected it that rejection would be fatal to the Bill. He
( Lord Melbourne) had then alluded to the recommenda-
tion of his Noble and Learned Friend to withdraw this
and bring in another Bill, and had said that another
Bill could not be brought in. But if another Bill could be
brought in, in God's name let them have the real Bill,
containing- the intentions of the Government.—(Cheers.)
Let them have the Id. duty and the drawback from
the remission of the Post-office duties, which the Noble
Viscount forgot to allude to in his statement of the financial
effect of the measure. Let them bring in their own Bill,
without this tack. That would be the usual and customary
mode of proceeding; and there was time to adopt that
course, if they thought fit so to do.—(Cheers.) In the
speech of the Noble Viscount no answer had been given to
his Noble Friends near him ; they had stated clearly the
injustice that would be done to the proprietors of this species
of property ; they had established a clear distinction between
the clause contained in former Acts and the clause in the
present Bill ; and to their objections be (the Duke of
Wellington) maintained no answer had been given. It
was no answer to taunt his Noble and Learned Friend
with having said that he was favourable to the repeal of the
whole of the stamp duties, and to ask whether he (the
Duke of Wellington) would join him in that declaration.
That was no answer—let the House have an answer to the
objections which had been stated—(Hear, hear)—let it be
shown that the clause was not foreign to the object of this
Bill, that object being to remove an advantage of the pre-
sent proprietors by the reduction of the stamp duties to
I d., and to give an advantage by the remission of the Post
Office duties.—(Cheers.) He was sorry that the Govern-
ment should be inconvenienced by that or any other course
which he might adopt ; but he certainly upon that occasion
should feel it his duty to support the motion of his No4ble and
Learned Friend.—(Cheers.)
Lord LYNDHURST supposed the insinuation of the
Noble Viscount referred to the Hon. Member for Berk-
shire ( Mr. Walter) ; but he could only tell the Noble Vis-
count that he did not even know the person of that Hon.
Member ; he never had had communication with him
on any subject ; lie had never spoken to him ; he had never
seen him. With regard to verdicts against publishers, he
must remind the Noble Viscount that every publisher, be-
fore he was allowed to publish a paper, was compelled to
enter into recognizances, himself to the amount of 4001.
and to procure three other sufficient securities ; and if that
sum were even reduced by a verdict or otherwise, he must
then again enter into new recognizances to the same
amount : and he (Lord Lyndhurst) never remembered a
verdict against a publisher to the amount of 4001. This
clause had not been introduced until the third reading in
the other House ; and when it was introduced there were
not more than siety Members in the House, and it was very
considerably beyond twelve o'clock.—(Hear, hear.) Their
Lordships, then, he thought, could not place much reliance
upon the course adopted by the other House with reference
to a clause introduced at so late an hour, and in so thin an
assembly.—(Cheers.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said if the House
could entertain the slightest doubt as to the Tight in sviiicn
that clause was to be considered, and was anxious to find
something to guide it to a right -conclusion upon the sub-
ject, they would have it in the conduct of the Noble and
Learned Lord himself, for their Lordships must remember
that they had privileges to maintain as well as the other
House ; and if the Noble and Learned Lord had himself
thought that this clause was indeed a tack, it would have
been incumbent upon him to have adopted that course by
which alone they could have vindicated their own privi-
leges, viz., at once to have proposed the rejection of the
whole measure.—(Hear.) But the clause was in iteell
agreeable to the orders of the House ; and the Noble and
Learned Lord could not venture to pronounce it a tack,
—(Hear, hear)—and to adopt the opinion and the course
which Lord Granville took upon the subject on an
occasion when he opposed a Bill that also contained
matters of revenue and matters of general policy. What
course of proceeding did that Noble Lord pursue ?
Did he go into Committee upon the Bill, and shelter
himself by proposing the omission of a clause in that Com-
mittee ? No. Lord Granville was not,a politician of that sort
—he adopted a more open and manly course than that ; he
came down to their Lordships' House and at once de-
nounced the measure as an infringement and violation of
their Lordships' privileges.—( Hear, hear.) If they were
disposed to look at the question in the narrow point of view
suggested by the proposition of the Noble Lord every other
clause in the Bill, as well as the present, would be a tack ;
he did maintain that this clause formed a legitimate part of