The Sun.
London, England, 1809-04-26 00:00:00

opote the Noble Lord as an ag'grayation or extenua- • President of the. Board of Controul.`,. A Minister i which I a ouealit not to have concerned himself with;:
• ~ 0 . . •
Lion. The case'really and virtually-depended upon thus situated, might be More 'or less eeMplitnented :Nleilisteris had no riglit'to ma-ke useof public offieea;
his patronage. .. . ' ' 'by the East India. Company with patronage: it cetild.: which-were, in ma, -tpnblic' 'property,' to purchase
. ._ ... .
-Mr ettorptst rose to do justice to the memory of not-bedhotight the. East India COmpany would give seats in Parliament. 'lf theeprinciple which enabled
his departed friend the late Lord Sligo. If the PatrOnage for the purpose of biiltig, patrOnage, ~..-, if thiistets id'ea.anitritry to the sense of Parliament'
_Noble Lord opposite (Hamilton) had read the' re= that could be proved the hielethey ought 'to be -de:- were con .iiiered, the magnittade of the evil must be
port of the evidence of Reding, as it related to him, privet" 01 that power. Their furnishing. NI-misters chrious. ' lite ',Noble 'Lord had acknowledged hay-
be would haVe found it not only improbable,: but with patronage to gain seats was ,one '.of the toost ing plac'd a lArritership at the-disposal of the Earl of
impossible to be true, and would - have- abstained dangerous abuses that could be dreatneJ of; but it ClOncarty,- tolaciiitate his coming into Parliament ;
from implicating his name' in any 'chargeof orruP- . had been said, that that 'patronageein this instance; ' and be could not think when one of the fundamental
lion:: .He then went into the evidence; and'shewed ,was not to increase the influence of Ministers, but . principleeof the eorrstitutiala were violated by a 'Mi-
that,Reding had first pretended that Lord' Sligo was only to be e3erted in, behalfofan individual. He did , nister, that they Ought to pass on to • the. Orders of
to procure the person for the'place, then the 'place , not know how the influence of Government (if .he ' the. Day,
tor the person; then that it was to be a Wthership; Understood the expression) could be ieareased in 1 The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER '
said; he
then a ' pecuniary reward of 3,500 guineas ; and shat House, but by procuring 'seats for persons de- j should -.thinks hies negleeted every private duty, if,
many cattle, gross con I radialorts'. He put u to the.: yoted,to their 'interests, and. he- would.ask, if. there feeling as he did, -he failed to rise, regardless. ot-
Noble Lord, upon what ground of. honest prin- , could be any detibt but the Earl of Clancarty would Whatever he might have to
:encounter in behalf of
-Ciole, or 'generous feeling,-.tie could charge Lord ' uniformly vote for the measures of that Gevernment • his valued-friend. .He did not think,' when he.en-
Sligo, whom he knew 'to be 'in his grave, with ' of whiCh the Noble' Lord formed a Part.. How was tered tlie rfouse that night,. that there could have
The
corruption on such inconsistent grounds. . the influence Qf Government established but by I been any doubt as to the faik or .to the law appli.
Noble Lord indeed had in the course of his 'Speech., gaining seats in Parliamentforeuch perione ?It was -Cable to them. hi thelorn. ler instance .he.had been
twice claimed the indulgence of the House in _being well knw,vn that in times: tar eleetion burgessed'bo- ' disappointed; but not in the latter. The Right Ho- ,
allowed to explain any error he might• fall into. : roughs were.cienstantlyrei sale, and m ighl be. bought . Pourable Gentleman ellen -jointed' adt titherein the
This indulgence he would certainly need, and 'be ! like a horee or a cow., Stunetitnes persons were 'ftitieliortit of that tribunal. differed from thos'e of ,
called upon him to avail himself of it, to dO justice to : plaCetlin Parliament tl; rePr,esent them from motives,' Cobra: of 'Law.'' -Fie was happy to follow ehe•Gen.
.the memory of Lord Sligo; Reding had said that Lord • of friendship ; 'Out much oftener persons became etleman who sPoke last 4! befutned with him. in the
Sligo was to give Lord aancatry a seat for an Irish ); possessed of suats'Solay t brotigh, `the:•fecouttnenda. I-candid exposition; he had Made ; agreed with himN
Borough, and thensbie Lord had taken for granted , ;lion of NO. nr live thousaud pounds. :It neight 'be '.tosthe nature of therdisnee, and the law for punish-
this was the case. Did he not know that it was not i mid, in justification of such practices, that
.Govern-. ing it;, only differing as to the propriety of its being
.in the nature of things, for Lord Clancarty,' or any : went must .he supported,„but he could not think ' applied in the present instance. He thought. his Hon. ,
Irtste'Peer, to sit for anlrish br;rOugh ; or was heas ' their supporcoughtto be detiyed-froin auch.sources. .Friend (Mr. Croker) had been reproved for vindi-;
ignorant of that eiretinewance as Reding appeared to,, It `vas impossible nut to connect this-sob:jet-1 with cating the character of the Marquis of Sligo When.
be, when he mentioned not -onlY Lord ClaneartY ;'the IXProrto of Parliament; :he' had' long• Considered ehe did not want reproof and the Hon.' GeOtletnan.
but Lord 1-laWardeil as 'in" thSit respect favoured by i that question with the attention: which he thought it, ' would have done ti`r;lt- bid- he considered,' before
ii ord Sligo, who knew the laW better than to think, i merited, :At an early, period of his lite the cry of he adverted to the: Union; the impropriety of tn..
.of stAl,;a-thing, evem had he possessed the patronage, t reform lad beett echoed..trum every quarter, in 1611'1440e- ptibh.; mind by insinuations which were
which •he did not. He had rescued his lamented 1.. every car, and it had .been .asserted, diet unles.e, some not founded in fad. Otte of the chargea-preferred
friend from the obloquy cast npOn his.name, and ' change was brought ta6out within that House, a re- against his friend and colleague was, of such a nature
trusted 'What tiz, had stated would increase the indig- 1. form would be ollieded by those tvith :Teat
out: teat he could' not but leply-to,it 'in particular, as it
nation °I-the lioiale egainst 'Reding, who by his i period, he hailed; never would 'arrive z but if they did indeed' eettel,tU aggkavattibiS conduct in a Very
gross-prevarication, for a • momentary shelter from ! shut .their eyes when shell things-were brought bee !rat degree,:i He elltidedeo.that part. of the Noble.
diS"werY.,• dAtied thuS to :commit sacrilege, endyioe , fore them, what else could be expeeted ? Such transe " .orelle'hileeth Whore be Spoke of the .indignation of
late the silence-el thetomb. .*The secOnd'Reeolue :. aaiotis might be animadverted on ,Veveeely. •He , his
~Notele Prieod- as being affeCled,,...,He was sure
(ton, declaring that the transaction failed from a'dis- was ooteef opinien the, resolution went further than . his ineignation . was t.i.lost sincere, and if. the eVi-
agreOmeut atisee;,the 'subordinate agehtS, was, fjorn :. it ought tudoe it.'wa,4 little more than a plaio;state- deuce was peruNod, he thmight that he was so,mut:
What lie had said, false in fact', since it was not in ~Inetit of faccts (he•elid oot meet' to. say, the stateuteuts be obviotis.' fie Lad .hever 'seen Davis but once
the nature 'of things that it could havabeen Corn- were correet). .13,ut because. perhaps borne trivial tit.are. the beget:a:locm was over, .(Here the Right
pleted ; and he pot it-to the Right Hon.'and'Learned errors might appear, would the Han. G :ntlentan 'Hon. (:','eetle;nan Slightly ='glaricelatf the evidence.)
Gentleman opposite (Mr. Ponsonby), who had been wish the whole to,be set aside ? It would hAve„heen , A short time !before, Abe Coaenittee commenced its
a Judge, anti knew the law, whether he could'vete better. hail he ..propoed.,serpe amendment I: be skiing Davis -wrote a letter to him, stating that there
for this being the cause of a fulore where there was thought-it might easily
.beatrieuded by addip&such . W4Ol. cdso in which he' wished the Noble Lord to
a physical impossibilite of tie matters being carried i, words as these " as. 14:08'4:appeared ; to. the Noble Aired hint ti I,a to do, The answer Of. his friend
intoetfect ?" 'The first' priipositton was also erro l ,Lord ztt that time," . lie did llOi know that -00;e ' had bell t'l'N' thiferent• to what Dada. had eepeiit.
fleets., as it went to catch the Noble Lord (Castle.: i words would du, bin he thought some such ex- ed.--," YThi ''to do me no. greater 'personal favour
)esgh) in a chkttinti 01 havng aggravated his orfefice ' passions might 0,-;•sate eteiy: obie.ti on.. In. the , than, by .stating all von _k pow, &o.". His contlea in
by being in ovo otficesoei her Presidentof the Am' d light in which 'the Noble Viscous t saw the trans- t;fi, instaucc• proved, • that cOnscions of the rectitude,
o.reorstruol„ or SoTetary of State/as.. suited' We action in which he' had 1, '. '...een en,,,,ag,.,d, he -Ind 01 his incAinons, he Was' desirous, the whole of the
coune6led with .his conilud:shoula
'views of the Nohie Lord opposite. The fact was, " endeavoured . till' ,fi fits power to
‘euilielele the cirettiostaneee
that 'he was not Secretary 01 Sta!e, at that time, an't ttegoliati9il ; . lie therefore sio,)(1-----".—• lie -b"-141d4het.ore the reotnnsittee, that it might be clear-
dough he di I not mean to s.iy that this hltil ninch
would not finish 'the 'sentence. The:N*6l4e- tout. ed up ; he therefore thought the Noble I,ord'had
' '
effect 'upon tine ,bird p jilt, Vet it was r .IPl'issih:e to waceertaildY':c„ulpable-: Was it proper:. for deity t 4 no right to think-. his' friend's iedignation was insin,
ct)"'e to thatronclusion vsnll noth the
I ~,„ „„
1,,,,4„ : cethiont, Last _lndia patrotui..,,e tor -a .ecat op, Oeerl'es-i - sere oo -the evidence or 'Davis. Nothing had been
'false, , whieh appvarf.l on their Joi.nnals.. l-lis incur ? It:that-61w 'be ,kieett.ol4, eemtsspoetee of eted against the Noble Lord's conduit in a moral
countrymen bad b' -ti accused of tiLiking will,, hut any oilier Patronagolof thc. s.iineqrtsrpose-; atigticoo r.- point of view, and it' the circumstances laid before the
the logic ut ihe Nobler 1-01,1 pros ed Ina' they also considered as a.. venial _error, lieeertantly ' media a House should cause i hem to come to an unfavour-
...
existed oil this 14416 of Ihe wai' r(A iatot it). 11,- did greet ooeoing efar 'corruption, and. the cotitoi-y able decision, whatever might be their sentiments, ho
not know whistli-er they 1 iitglied at hiiu met he Nu- w(Aiid thiuk.Ministers considered tlio one of as little should stillAfeel- justified in his attachment to the
ble Lord ; if at the letter, he 'begged to assure him , importance as the other.. When 'a titan ()Atolls a Ir-10d-beloved. The -tesultnions' were neilher'true
it was at his logic, not at teinseit.. It the, e °Lila be singlevote by:giving, -or by promising entive, any in :words nor cocas, there were inaccuracies of great
grave he would pow state the ease. The Noble Se- office, place, or Alter snurce of emolument,' I:e ~its itllpOrninCe,. • ,Whatever error his friend might have
ereta'ry, with a large shat 4.-01 lsaironage, had in one:. , punishable. 'lnla '
&else, then, where the whole of committed,` he hoped-0c House would be partiees
roee oil: fat oar
tared :a
to say, .. ,
oto them • f ihel'e was any tlimg..hut a par- b,"fligh,t, t ttu;,l it bede n) ought proper. the to ;pu4l s , the prop...tit i )ti. The fist resolution he could
ilametnary diffieu if
this—it there was any moral . ' over to tee Ofeler of: thelDey ?•-••Couldithe " Irish . not agree to ; and thes,von4, which stated that the
turOkutleur .cortuption, or if what was proposed to • :Cotoottsitoller4' Fees Bill" be considered-es of more negociation tided throug;li the underlings, . was
be done was:nnt sanetiOned by, cuitone, and if sliseo. importance than that winch struck at the very vitals equally incorrut: Irthe resolutions wt.'re,passed at
vexed, Nvai. ou;thore- than' a very v cella' .offerve, The ,of , the constitution ? Toe, case was so plain hu'did ' alt,--theyamended.toust 'be amended. No reliance ilioeld 'be
middle course had been recormu. nded..and howished 'tot-think it necessary to 0o deep into:it; . but when.
..placed'on the evidence of Betting, Lard Sligo, had
into be taken; not that they. should come to ,1 vote :.be conteinolated the contltd of Gentlemen io.that ' 'no' seat to sell;;lido was a name he made use of
?f:eensare on ilia, we eh in their own hearts they instance, atd r.emernbered the flagrant abuses charg- -before the Continlitee; but which be probably ne.
Know not to he ceo,urahle.. He.called on.thern to ed :tome years ago on the GoVernment of Ireland, to , ter thought' of before. •I:lie manifold . absurdities
g, 0 into their own. brpa•tr., and examine their poll- . bring about the. Union, the reflection he'made wait,.: and contradictions in that man's evidence; rendered
altloallieesibefore they came to .suell a vote. ; " that there is a' something .in the :human mind it wholly useless. It was evident the man meant:to
Alt. WYNNE t.xpiaitletl: , . _ ' , which enab!CS-Gentlemeo (though:men of 6014 ho-1 lmpose on 'the' public; by making use of the letter
Loid MILTON did not rise to..speak. on the. gees. •! nour and .integrity in.'privatelito to reconcile their which his NOble Friend had indiscreetly written'to
Von, but merdy to explain his conduct which had ' consciences to any thing." It was'bis opinion it' the him. The injurious effiseis of offences. be did not
neen allUdti:d to so direetly 'by the Noble Lord (Cos- Rouse passed lightly over whae had now been mean to deny. It had been said, that if disposing
tlereagh)• He was free 'to cootess, that at the brought before them, they. would not only incur the of 'East India Patronage were regarded as such a 're.
words which fell from • thatiNoble Lord at the time ; censure,of the pitblic,•. but they would be ,placed in nial error, the:dispoSal• of jiatrOnage of every other
alluded to, he felt it imptse.ble -to ,refrain from an ! a state of ;jeopardy greater than any they had evert description, would ,ceaselo.he reprobated, No tine,
exPresston of the indignation he
-felt' fro:A the very : yet been menaced with. Whan the populareclamour ' he believed, thought of justifyitx an abuse—front
commencement of his speech. As an apology to ' rose high without reason, he thought at duty of whatever source power might be derieed, the per-
the Rouse, however, was necessary, he rose now Ministers Manfully to stem it ; bot:when unabte'to •son 'holdingit t,vas tespOnsible for the use he Made
for the purvose of rnaking. it. ~ condenin it as atisingfroin an improper source, they iof it. It had been said the deprivation ot"power
Mr. W. stunt theught the last s eaker, h.l. ' could only censure it as being: too violent ; by rashly would be an Appropriate punishment ; but a rem°.
`defending thelcoriduct of the late Marquis of, 1e lt,
Sliao, . opposing it they might put theinielves in -danger ,of val,.under *eel) circumstances, would be deemed as
bad indulged himself in a warmth of. expression.being carried away by the.curreet. If they Passed -severe a punishment as he could have deserved; had
which could not easily' be. jestified, as whetier. Lord i liglitlyover the transadion then under consideration,. I he been intentibnally guilty, and, the negociatien
Sligo bettor had' not beets ereuilly . was of little im 'rt- the' country' would say, f' the House of, Commons successful. Tice. guilt of intention' was all that
ance to those concerned that:discussion. 140 ml2cl nevernoticed or opposed the sale of sears when Mi- bad been imputed: to hint, and of that the lost
laboured with trench anxiety wholly to ac nit the nisters were concerned, unless it could be proved speaker had aequitted 'hitn, a silie Right Hon•Ceentlee.
q '
Marquis of Sligo of every Unite- that had been they did it to put money in their own pockets." Hit tman had said lie did not believe, had the Noble Lord
imputed to him; hut Tae theughtit would have been ' thought thee should come to resolutions,: and then if seen it in.:mother point, of:iew, that be would. bare
of greater importance to them '#
cad
he: ,
any its:ober 'Censure was proposed, debate' whether concerned liielsell with it. It had been compared
the living instead °fettle dead. Thour vindicated .
or not it shook! be passed. : lb a ease Of bribery; he would ask the dentletnati
g a le trans- , .
tedious hi wetich the Noble Lord had b • Mr. M-. StriroN thought that in this, as in 'every : who made 'the comparison,. if; in a case at bribery,
fen concerried , . . ' ' -. • ' flided'-ou It t be he would proceed as lig tiowproposett tedo I Should
g i • o
Inightnot be of such a natore as to press so stionek, other.case, the punt,orne.ot to .
upon him as sLine might coneeive,the • . ' 'proportioned to the crime. No bribery.--no itupro-, it
I be prOVQ:I before a committee that two Sessietts
Y did, yet lie
n
'felt
of opinion that 'a degree of. culpabilityattach. per aBk)lvi with tv view to his own private emolte. : ago a Member had unstieeesaluey tried to gain a seat
itself to his character whichought
': : had b 'attributed' to the Noble 'Lord. lie :by bribery, would he have That Member punished;
not to he pesser. meet, een
t 'lightlyover. The opini, not an individual like him- therefore .slid , not think they could feel thettiseit es : now as if he had gainecl.his seat by,bribery I fits
y imperiously calked on by their duly to th(Pir Cotnni- Not*.Prietul h.!,.1 item acquitted of the guilt of in-
self might not be very iMportant , but he certain!
did think that it 'was to Atte last- tie Tee unconctiiti- tnents; to insert' the Resolutierit- on the .1 opritels cif ' tentien, yet still count they be. called upon to pass
lional to y the House.
,He .-,cencurrecl with a Node Lord -on !. sentence with al/ the consequent punishment he. ad
permit seats in that Horisetgo be au, ined'b
:such means. It was inconsistentwith ad' 't ' , that Side._ of the House, (Lord Biening) justhe pro- .i- before spoken of ?. ' Iles trop that be had planoed,
,their lent y, : - .
When Cillies tthat t.:I a s i u ter. Order of the 111 ` ' ' and.which the Noble Lord had alluded to, from the
them,
traced o . descrytion - were brotight before. . 11Fie.) 0 p .4.1.3, 9 the .. ..)•• .
ample scope. it hid beets. allowed, proved' the joie-
tothem .
principals to pass ever as un- :. Mr..GRATrAN• %iced AIM' the' lion. Getitleman ~ . • . ..,
‘vo t. i egrity of his OV.OI ItitelitlollS. 'He did not think they.
, rtuytoetrattention. Theiion.Gentle -li isj dwho brut just tpunishment should
.Inati a state spat , .
thelowould consultetillier the feelings of their coustituen is
House that the Noble Lord did not appear aware- ,ever beproporrioned to the Magnitude of the offence; .'
or their own dignity, b , singling out for -e
3 such.,:evei
I),f the • fact, that an Irish Peer could ' nut, sit in and lie therefore was of opinion that one of his Ma,. ,
punishment, a easete which so many alleviating cir-
,t!'at House for an Irish borough. He did not he. • jesty's Ministers presiding.at the Board of Controul,
sieve the Noble Lord had ever said it tea. 'err Irisil•• should, we being concerned in such a transaNien, _ cutustances were attached.. Ho therefore proposed,
that they shedld pais ici the Order of the Day, not
borough ; but if lie had made such a mistake, it be punished be deprivaliou of power. He didebe
Was one of: those into -which . men were very opt to Nobly' Viscount the justice to -say, lie laid trade ;a because-that wawof any importance, but beenuse it
fall., That eircumstatice, hid passed woolly tninn. very decent defence; but he uuderstood thatlie ac- , appeared to him tart* on tart on this sobjed
'teed by the Committee, be therefore'thought shale knowledged the lad, -but denied that he hail any ,could be required. .
Could he said, if in' this instance his Noble Frieed idea, -that it could be injurious to the Constoution.. Mie'Gthteleeitte; in explattatione said, be did loat.
Was in error. The Hon, Gentleman appeared to -He did not-believe that ;ie had any such idea:, but he I state
it as his opinion that the,NobleeLord: was :not
thitik it .was ridiculous to imagine that the Noble did Ole k that he had eaed in an uti warrantable man- : guilty, ,but that he heliered heves not aware of the
Lord bolditi r' batsoffices, could act improperly in . net to accommodate is friend. He-had violated the .ex fensiye effects of inch a transadtiou.
, . t,,,
fatal) situations,at one, time ; but for his .part, lie , constitute it; but was not aware of the extent of the ' Mr.
.p.ONLioNEY dec:arect, that irt what be bad to
,
'''' !
Oki not see why if he could hold two ilhCes at lifferiti of that violation ; the- e,ddesice on the table . obserrebn. the present question, nothing 'Was more
once, it should not be as eabY to violate as to attend was to substantiate the former •; and it_was Int' t hem- remote horn mind thatirtniintention of hurling
Gentleman's
the.duties of both. However logical toe Heti. 'to etinsitie's if theee couldoverlooksthat teansaetieo, i the feelingsof •tbe. able; Viscopsit whose condott
‘notleman's speech might be in every ether part, he in eotieetesatiee „t the lane,: pAthat-neh-rsears could " was the objea of it ; what he wished snore perti.
eeuld not but think in that. his`Was ansoltuely Mogi- tau be eeild without great injury to the,Co-astitutien; ' calarly to draw the attentiutt of the Rouse to 'Was,
C1,',4 It was a great aggravation of the conditet of holding two oiiic-'s, the' -Noole Lord had used the the impression-whieli the-case -of -the Noble -Yu-
-46 Noble Viscount, that :at. that period- he iat, as- one agiinst ttie tithci,,' god both, to furthet.3ll obieti e mints aS it 6t90d1) 11)til'e face of-the evidericejiefote
.r.
, 4 .