The Sun.
London, England, 1825-04-20 00:00:00

HOUsE OF COMMONS.

In consequence of the expected debar' on the Catholic Quese
don, the approaches to the Gallery were extremely crowded at
an early hour in the day,
and the first rush was snore. than suf-
ficient to fill the space allotted to strangers. At Blur o'clock
the SP/CA lc n took the Chair in the usual form, and the House
proceeded to business.
Several petitions were presented in favour of the Tees Rail-
way, and one or two against it.
. Jr. GRENFELL moved the third reading ofthe St. Celle-
rine'e Dock Bill.
Mr. C. CALVERT
opposed the motion, and said he should
take the sense of the House upon it.
The gallery was then cleared, and the plates. which hat] been
obtained by virtne vfeee much patience sod eg,ueesing were thus
sacrificed Ina moment.
When the gallery was again opened, the impetuosity of the
crowd was such that we were really apprehensive
.of seeing a
large proportion of it carried over the gallery, into the body of
the House. The Setarelt was obliged to issue a peremptory
order for the to clear the gallery, and that had the
effect of calming the troubled spirits *lto were fighting so ties.
perately for places already filled to an 'overflow. I.Ve under-
stood, that the House had not divicleA after all. „ 7
Mr. Alderman Wool) presented a petition from- IV'"tg"
chapel, praying a repeal of all the Assessed Taxes.—Ordered
"to be printed.
Mr: MSG presented a petition from St. Mary's Islington,
.praying a repeal of the House and Window Tax.—Ordered.
to be-printed.
Mr. liffitTBTtEAD presented a petition from the Shipwrifhts
of the River Thames, against any alteration in the Coinbuia.
tion Laws.-Referred to the Conunittee.
Mr. 11:-Dxvts presented a petition from the Clergy of the
Diocese of 'Bristol, against certain Clauses in the Dissenters'
Marriage Act —Ordered to be printed.,
Mr. Astir TON. SHIT It presented a petition' from Bangor,
in favour, of the County Courts' Bill.
ROMAN CATHOLIC CLAIMS.
Treert presented -a Petition from the Roman Catholic
Clergy of the County of Motnnoutli, in favour of thy Bill before
the House.,
Mr. fIowETWOOD- presented &similar Petition from Chat.
ham.

Mr. BYNG presented a similar Petition from the Pariah of
St. Luke.
Mr. DOHERTY presented a similar.. Petition from the Pro-
testant-Inhabitants of New Rosa.—Ordered to int printed.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a Petition from the Parish
of Whitechapel against any further concessions to the Roman
Catholics:

Sir I. PALK presented a similar Petition from Ashburton.
lIIr. MUNI:lax presented a similar Petition from the Clergy
.of the town and neighbourhood of Derby.
Mr. GOO CLT presented three similar Petitions from the Clergy
of the Archdeaconry of Suffolk, and from two parishes in, that
county.
Mr. AsuußsT. presented two similar Petitions from the
Clergy of the Archdeaconry of Oxford, and froM the Inhabi-
tants of Wheatly.

Lord EASTNOR presented a similar Petition &ma the In-
Nabitants o Hereford.

Mr. BURRELL presented two similar. Petitions from two
Parishes in the County of Sussex.
Mr. T. .WILSOS presented a similar Petition from the
Parish of St..lotolph, Ahlgate.
Colonel PO ivELL preFnted a similar Petition from a part
of the County of Cardigan,
Mr. CARTWRIGHT presented a similar Petition from
Towcester.

Sir E. HARVEY presented three similar Petitions from the
Clergy of the Archdcecopry of Essex, god from-the Laity of
Barking; Saffron Walden, and Dagenham. •
lr three similar Petitions from
eli erent N
arliisr
Me, LEAKE• stated that he'had been requested by an Hon.
fitpEilisA in the thPei'
pre
of his, the Member for the County of Itu-laral, who
it4y te
oft i
Exeter.
was
prevented from attending his duty in Parliament, in con-
I Freeholdersand Inhabitants
to the House a Petition from t le
academe of tile serious.litrress-of one of his family, to present
of the County which he had the honour to represent, against
any further concession to the Catholics, and he added, that the
Petition was numerously, and, he could assure the House,
from own knowledge of the parties whose names were af-
fixed to it, most respectably signed.
Sir J. COTTERELL presented three similar Petitions from
Hereford, Plympton, and Ely,
Mr. BASTARD presented nm.-e similar Petitions from Pa-
rishes in the County of Devon.
Mr. H. Davis presented six similar petitions, from different
parishes in the city of Bristol. •
Mr. LEICESTER said the petitioners were totally ignorant
on this subject, as he was himself until lie was enlightened by
the evidence before the Committee : for before that be believed
that the Catholic Religion was idolatrous.
Mr. BRIGHT said it was from the History of England, and
the world, and not from the evidence of Catholic Clergymen,
that his constitutents had learned that the Catholic-religion had
always and every where been the enemy of toleration, of refor-
mation, and 'of civil and religious liberty. The intolerance of
that Church was not dead---It scarcely slept. Let them read
the speeches of Sir S. timidly, on the persecutions of the Pro..
testants in the South of Prance, in 1815, and there they would
discover the true essence of this religion. He was anxious to
avoid stirring up religious strife ; but it wns his duty to declare
that the Popish religion was not changed, and that it behoved
a Protestant King and a Protestant Parliament to be on their
guard against it.
After a few words from Lord NUGENT,
Mr H. DAVIS said, that many of the Gentlemen who,
signed the petitions which he had presented. were as enlight-
ened as the Hon. Member (Mr. Leicester), or any other in that
House.
Mr. B. COOPER presented a similar petition from Glou-
cester.
Mr. CRAWLEY presented a similar petition from Hommiton.
Mr. FLE3IING presented similar petitions from the Clergy
of the Are/deaconry of Winchester, and from the inhabitants
of Portsmouth and Portsea. •
•
Mr. CARTER, as one of the Representatives for that place,
from which this last petition purported to come. must say how
it was got up. A requisition- was numerously signed for a
meeting, but the Mayor wished for an open discussion, and the
requisitionists then refused to call a meeting. The Mayor, how-
ever, persisted in holding the meeting,'..and a counter resolu-
tion was agreed to, that as the matter 4aa now under the con-
sideration of Parliament, it was inexpedient to move any peti-
tion whatever respecting Catholic Emancipation.
'Mr. FLEMING bore testimony to the high character of the
Gentlemen who had signed the petition. -
Mr. ASIIETON Sstrrn Presented a. similar petition from
Bangor.
Sir J. NICHOL presented a sinillar petition from Tiverton.
Mr. R. HILL presented two similar petitions...nen Whit-'
church and another place in the county or Smap.
Mr. CHAPLIN_ presented four similar petitions from the
county of Lincoln. -
Sir G. CHETWYND presented three .sintilsr petitions from
Litchfield, Stafford and Burton upori•Tremat.
Lord NUGENT made some observedens upon the manner
in which one of the petitions had been get up.
Mr. Secretary I'ttL and Mr. LYTTLEToN bore testimon to the respectability of the signatures. y
Mr. Cu It TEI4 presented two similar petitions from Lewes.
Sir J. AsITLEY presented a simibtrnetition from Wootton
Basset.
ed
31r. Elicxxxsofe presented three similar petitions from dif-
ferent parts of the County of Somerset.
'Similar petitions were presented from four parishes in- the
"fromanti
Estc o five
uinhabi-
;
-hundr person,
and from Fairley;
ct
a
on
ut
ns
tyofofDSeviomzeserse,
bty,
Edward Lloyd. by Sir
Mr. JotiNSTONE presented a petition from Mr. John New-
ton, of Lincolnshire, stating,' that the petitioner considered the
Oath in the Bill now before the Hottse'ai a neradation to him
and time rest of his Majesty's Ronman•Catholic subjects, inas-
much as they did not profess any of the opinions denounced in
the said oath.
Mr. Alderman Thofirsalf Presented petitiorma from the Pa- •
rishes of St. Mary's, Somerset, St
~.,arpre,t, sin.l from the the,
-
seaters of Walworth, against the t4.no ic tjaims.
Similar petitions were presented from the 'Archdeacon &c.
Marquis of 'raid:dock ; froM r
of Bedford, by the • the Wesleyan Methfla.% ar, mgmon,.
.by Sir H. Hardinge; from _ ,
,of.lirigli.
and the riVtesuum of uittO, by Sir John Sniff
ton and Lewes; , Dorset, by Lord Pr• .e,;01 'nu; and from-a parish in
d two' Petiticins ;rt. far'"
Sir R. HERON tiresentecc the Ca,
tholic Claims; one frota the city 01- retertsiecragn, the other

from the town of -Newark. 19 rie,v•ing .that the Petitions be
brinight up, the Hon. Baronet enlarged uptsettitcrespoctability
of the petitioners, and aniinadeerted upon the manner inwhieti
some other petitions of an _opposite nature were prepared and
sent to that House. •
Mr. BROUGHAM wished, 'for the sake of Christian cha:
rity, to.call the attention of-the House to alitatetnent 'which Ile
held in his hand relative to the petition :presented ea Friday
Mat, to which the Hon. Alember, "who just sat •down. bad so
properly alluded. Grantham aeti the -..Soke, -from which the
petition purported to come, contained a yopidation, he :under..
stood, of 10,009 inhabitants, and .the Meeting which adopted
the petition consisted of twenty-nine, of those 'ROM. 'Fite
number of signatures to it when presented athoueted to 433,
and of these he would Ito give- some account. The &rst_ls,
it was but. fair to state, were Clergymen, but the neat 198evete
of an opposite character, for they were incapable of reading or
writing their own mince. These 'learned statesmen :of Soke,
however, wishing to be concise ae.wt.li as zealous in their hristi.
lity to the Catholics, crpr3seti their excordance to the. petition
by a set of very emphatic-al -crossa..—(hear:.);--Of the nest
four signatures, two were convicts, and two kept brothels-,
(Hear and tau Alter),.. protsably, being aporelien.:
sive of a eiyalry in their trade. if the _Scarlet Lady of 3.41.710 n
got any farther .foetiv:itt the conntry—(Laughter )—and • ten
of the subscribers were in ,the- coratant receipt- of parochial'
relief. :
The non, '4141131W whollad pr ;:vented the. Petition referred
- to (we believe Colonel Cost) here rose and made some (lb*.
tion to Mr. Brougham's statetnent, which was inaudible in the"
gallery. • --•-- • -
Mr. BROUGHAM could assure the Hon. ,31einher he• had '
his information from a source in which he could ptec:e the mom
perfect reliance, and that tie was batimied, with the testimony on
which he made his assertions. "rhe fact was, that 242 out of
the 439 names to the petitions from Grantham and the Soke,
were of the description hehad mentioned, and nevertheless the
petitioners did not in all.inalce more than a per centage of four
or live of the whole population.
Colonel OUST had only to observe, in reply, that out of the
470 nacres to the I:flit-ion which he presented, there was teat
one signed with •a cross. Upon that point, thesefore, 'he was
convinced the Hon, anti Learned Member must be in ester. As
to the two persons ivho Caere said to keep houses-Of bad repute,
it was not in his-power either to verify or refute the statement,
for in his whole life he had _never tot foot in all pliee of the
kind—.(Lood laughter)—but of this 'he could, assure both the
Hon. and Learned Member for Nrinclielsca. :nd the Hon.
Member for Peterborough, that the petition lc bid: he preset. )ted
_ on Friday last was couched .in the best and most respectful len.
.guage ; and that on no•occasion would he (Col. Go 'present any
petition Unworthy of that House.—(Hear, hear !)
,Lord •NtlGlr;‘;'l" should remark, that lie believed the state.
ment of his lion. and Learned Friend only went to say, that 198
of the petitioners could ant have written their names, and. not
that 198 crosses were afligoi to the petition.--(Hear !) •
Mr. Secretary PEEL certainly thought when it was so posi-
tively stated that SO many crosses were signed to the petition,
that the Honourable and Leaned -Member (Mr. Brougham)
had at least ascertained the fact by looking at, the petition
itself. He (Mr. Peel), however, felt it his duty from what
had passed to scud for the petition, and he found there was
but one croes inst:otl of VW as represented.—( The Right Ha.:
nourable Secretary here handed the petition across the table to
Mr. Brougham.)
Sir ROBERT ov.txplainc4l.
Colonel OUST believed the fion.-.and Learned Member (Mr.
Broughatn) was now satisfied. he had overshot himself.
111 A BE ILL y presented a Petition from Abingdon against-
the Catholic- Claims ; and one front the parish of St. Matthew,
Bethnal Green, vas presented by Mr. Cants
lax Petitirnis from A ihfortl,..Sanditurst,.and tWo,other places in
Kent, were presented by .Sir KNATCHBVI.
Mr. L. FosTtiqwesented a Petition from VI of the principal
Protestant Inhabitants of Ouroialk in favour of thz -Catholic
Claims. , - .

.. • .
. .
Lord NT,TGL.N'e would trouble the noun to say, that since
his Item and Learned Friend had: made the statement reapec.,
ing the Petition front Grantham, on the authority .of informa.
don furnished to him (Lord Nugent) he had enquired or the
Individual who mentioned -the facts to him, and it appearati he
hail received them from another source. He (Lord Nugent)
regretted extremely that any misrepresentation was the cause.'
quence.
Mr. BROUGHAM also explained, and apologised for not
having, in the multiplicity of his engagements, examined the
statement supplied . more closely. than he had done. Annsng
the signatures he certainly found in one place 14, in another 12,
and in another perhaps five or six names written in one hand ;
but on the contrary, many of those said to have beery (narked
with a croSs, Were hi as good individual penmanship as was
usually to be met with.
ium;
relopcirdoteuNt,intktinoyi'74folffavrSoorinutartrefl.stobieirrdnettcle,ldeaatcraha,aoitipniilcseosttliiatctindhonenii.fpCir.raotitiesoltiacn
Protestants
Mr. LITTLETOX presented a Petition from West • I 3
townrpm-
awni
sde. hi
Sir H.
onniftl:t.shttphea
the Roman
Catholicsiir
Secrentryof Queen'svEtlC)roesuennttye,dinla severalvo urpoeftitti
petitions;
Catholic Bill.
Catholic Claims, all of which had come to him in the tame
manner as those he had previously Stibriitted.' The' firk of`
these was from the illoderator and Synod" of 'Air and Glasgow.
With it he had received a letter . from Mr. 311Pharlan,: the
31oderator of the. Synod, complaining that petitions from. the
Synods of Scotland were not received by Parliament, as thoseof
COrpora,te Podia.;' but as petitions of the individuals signing
them. Ile (Mr.Peel).was anxious to remove any wrong Ma.
pression xhieh might prevail on this subject. Undoubtedly if
any of the Synods of Scotland had forwarded a petition to his
Majesty's Secretary.of State, he should answer it, though signed
only by the Moderator, as a corporate petition. He wished,
however, the Chair would inform the House of the law of Par.
Bement -on the subject, which in his (Mr. -Peel's) conception .
was, that every Corporation should vouch its acts by a specific
seal. •

?fir. SPEAKER said, the law and usage of Parliament was
to receive petitions from every corporation when certified by the
seal of the corporation. But if any other mode would equally
assure the House that the petitions were those of the Corporations
they professed to come froM, he, for one, saw no objection to
their reception.

Mr. C.IV Y NN thought that, by the Law of England, there
could be no Corporation without it possessed a seal. • But
whether the Law of Scotland was siMilar he did not pretend to
say. The fact of being a Corporation was here verified ' by
having a seal.
Air. J. P. GRANT said the law of Scotland ras. quite duffs.rent. Civil Corportions there had .seals, but Ecclesiastical Car,.
porations.had not; and the Moderator was supposed to act for
the whole :Vnotl or Assembly. ,
Mr. Seerc.tary, PEEL said, in consequence of what had just
passed, he I.4ipposeil the flonse would have nO obje:tion _ to ye.;
ceive the petition he held in his hind, ac that of Cne Synod of
.1 vr and:Glasgowodthatigb Signed OnlY
,by tkll :tloderator:
The Petition was *ccorclin gl y presented, as :wcre similar Peti-
tions by the Right .11on, (ientleman, fro 11 the Protestant In.
set:ters 0e Cranbrook ; from the". Congregation of fore..street
Chapel,_ from that:of . the ri.cy. J. ehamberlayne ; from Cie
Chapel. at Shotildium ; from Sh 4'ewbridge ;
,rona Crown-street
fr,,, the Borough of.Reatling ; from St. johiri, Uamp-
Chapel. Soho,; from the 'Meeting-house, Bliiialfurd-Street;
from. Clerkenwell ; from. Unioo-street
from the Congregation of the late Rev. I'V. Iltinthigclon • from
-the Church of Gratterly ; from Drnittiness; from tit ACielphi
took that opportunity of adverting to an
fT°S;luiirr;ey ; and froni three others. . - ' .
Chapel;
• Now he believeu that be.
ic
hiirnt el
.7a,rdpccitsis\t7,'Ocr:::: it.zni
r:
rslyV3
la
ift.
which seetrica to hare prevailed yes:eruay anuong
'• 11:s /ion. Friends near I; irn, that Protestant D isseh ters itaerally
not more than nine or lei petitions:from the
Protestant Pissenters had been
,presented, and cnoolug
orer
the alphabetical list this
than
fourot 2,050 o4,gree:atialiSi
he could declare that no more or five of them had ex-
fwoer7eeilalsotsteivleeitoingthe Catholic Clainoi.
pressed . any opinion upon._ c'F Que?tic:i at.preseni.. Vitiat were
properly called Protestsnt ,entizr3,were Presbyterians, Inilc.
and n„, liecoubtet: •not -1-, • • ,
pentients., ''"r • ,
.1. „,:hcr me,ti d: , ,however, wit.,
.those the lVesleyan ..p. - con-
not one in•
founded, ar,4
,he only .w1=1..,4 .__to pat the /loose an !its guard,
that qt.
one hundred' had expressed any c.,,p,nton at a)1. on the CathOlie
ciaiinsi, coufiding the subject entirely. to the LegiAnLore. TheY
liberty ',
ere in eel frie:.4l of rer.l;'°,°• •-Y 1 the 16,:a1, 4' ten ef
' otto. ano niaalr. Was • 4 ' • Se
Otos,- properli called ?rote4llra Diisintez_.
the term, a,-,lcl tnenin•
.h
utoeivem. .0 s.o unto. others as
awl/ weuld t'g dolke '4/14•?...r. e .G 1 , r ~ . . _ • . • .
Sir ' 0 .). 0 . SII.IEFV}' Sa"
‘...it
' wares,, *licit. were 'in:,
, .4 ,
`audible in thc-I.44•NrY:-, 4, t.,,.....4.5er-." ~
Mr. S. RICE: ;Lv&lie .'of. its 7' Resent ercosio„ ter:
,_ , . -4 cobeverire, ' .°,2sl got abreail t:W . ii'
ineh two t.-e 4. ;
ev.gienes
tat 1;C (5, - , „._ ...„,,..,_.,1
0., Lbw c.trii4, ~,
__,l
the Pr:Ars:4... lesetteerrw '''` '''''''' ' Lbw
weir 'lf

' ' - : • ''‘,V- r•I t ..,... , - ~
cirturelicted" bily"'aC:i4hremyl44ll6loi4l3:Piolp:heokil.43-94P'631'4""1 t
.w.14.4411L1T-":16ilic:
lA* to contradict thl aat rtictu.. liechi*, tlay 114 Nrctavc4 a
oitltercenc front the liymr,l a the ipmpl of Rovst si,d.Ch+favt
(iihiell, had then-. b.1.,..-n time, ',wool: hove ofilyll4 q"*- 16'm
(11- a Petition), at.d to it et3R,jpilidzcil ,„1.44 .thi-7,-i• .i;11-1,..of t;•:.
, .
tooat respectable „ptrsens in Uh.ter. Aleciared (.iic-•:*+tv 4•'-
cidenly in favour of l'antencipittion, ,ited geve-it as .tnek.o;n•
rtion that the Catholic cause was tlatts! grow...in; is PcIAIIVC-T
aniong thc Dissenters of that province. Tin- first. pani,j 4 1
the statement was that of the liigir bher; • of the I:4:mut:. or
Down.
-ir rii.4l;ezs Btrtivivy pule.r,ted a p.Lition frivi F'i-
mouth in favour of the Ca,..olic Claims;. also t.r7.04 74 '''
in favouxof the snmr. • ~ K
Dir;WlLTOstott, presertV;ti a rctitiOn Craw YA Vellr'. ".
Lai) against the Catholic Claims ; 31141 a atwilar "c ('-"
Colchester.
ISIr..SCARLETT prout.ed a rctitiotti signed 117 161:,^_
geants at Law and Barristers pf ttiglandi theri,ttleot-:, r,.,.: , -,
in nor out, of the House could the same nurabt4 of 1-..-...,g t;.+
be found better qualgied it: every tespe.et to form a ;int,. coe-
-4
pTution on uto questiem tinder e”nsid.eration. Be contd 31,0
•-state that many members of the profession who enortiin.,l
similar sentiments "would hare signed the petition bu!.. sr,' .)
a scruple that, as- a bitkl*, the `Liar ouglitlttn td, oiatireel t.
Legislature. ()there,. toeystacrA of opinion that-.te advoca j
the Catholic cause was not the. surest road v, prortw.i.on. 'lu
conclusion tie moat observe, that he sensibly fel; theltono,:n
of being infstasted to present- this etition. whieli from 'l-.*
learrsing and 'the talents of the !übgeribers, was entitled <•,
the full attention of the House. Irideed he would ivi4l, 4, 71.
the Bar at present, comptcred:wifit +what it vas,,wl-4en he r,,-
treed the professiim, almost guxpa!,sed conception. wbethrr ~..
regarded tho ability, gentr.•4l knot, it-ov, or other. endowirrues
Of the members-

. •
Mr. BROUGHA3/ did :lot think lee should dischvgr het
duty,. unless he bore te,stiramay to every thing -respecting- Cei,
Petition, which had been •so forcibly and -truly stated by h.
lion. and' Learned Friertd. It raK )11144 stated-that-the PFii-
tion bad not originated with the beads of profession. el.e
though they s.fterwartis ignctionoil it. He could .also. entuttinh
that of the Northern Cresit, consieting of about 90 •Barriittai.
upwards of 50 of then, had signed the Petition, and .f.rora ni;
owo kitowledge‘he antile4 that 30 or 245 more Hof them eseteltt
have done so, box for too scruple .noticed
and Learned Friend. The opiolon of those Genflenien 4wiet
belonged to the other circuits, might, he conceited, 'tali:re
to be tolerably well represented by that of the North,
.anti it
would thus appear, that, with a few exceptione, the lees.-
-fesition supported the Bill new before Parliament; 'Pareety
years ago, when ilr. &mast, rnov•ed the :question •in tat 2
House, tho majonty of the. Bar were atiertie to the CathoiiC
ClaiMs. Now ehat they saw that most enliAtened body Chin,-T,"
their sentiments. from. ezuvietion in so great a:proportion, ;:4
dila scarcely on twentieth of the whole Bar were eppostet
the question, it ought to hare a proportionate:effect upon the
minuls of Cal people. es the Bar were li.rhiga. and Terkf.
and persche %hese opitiioa% led them to glee the strongeit sap.
port to the Milistry • of. :the Are. opinioas,
could net be lightly itepuemcd he 411 y rait7, ' -
The Petition wae then .'read ead ordered to be printed. -
Lord , BECTIVI; Trete:wed i'etttiou. floret the
County of Cavan, eian.d by 10,000 indiricluals.—Ordertel to be
printed.- , -
Mr. D. rioliNtt;li: FiRONITitZ preeeoted a shail, r:•-
tenon from the C,,outitv of Mayo,-itt county yeeettea eseen, teal,
Mr. DENNIS liIfONVN. supported the r etitior.---Onteed•
to be printed. •
Loris N'T:-Tirssentcd a similar petition free-. the
map (ircat 'l ha ,;otele Lee obese
that this petition was deceritiag of every attention fpm, tn
Bowie, on acceura of the ctieracter and. numbers ef te,e rf •
tioners, who were exemplery its stattea end eobauca; ice
approttalsed the Ilouce oti the prcsent with =tee's'
AQpcs folin_dfl on the justice of their clanns, 'Thee inc .:.r•- in:. 17. }
at the Mawy of .;;fret was reduced to a Latter e: mere calcu-
letion• on the part of the. oppontatitesie- the tTlcou re, as to who.
ther it atiould be protracted for otte.eteo, or three. yn.rs lengrr:
The reimberefpftl:ii)UCTB wit. e;,-wards of •32,000.:r• nutebrr
by no means iricansiderelt-le. lit teas surprised at -the delel, iii
granting the Catholic In doing se, we •stocil btfoie
Ireland as unpeiricipled anal filia:lcs-6 debtors, still deferriag
with as little moral justice ae political wisdom riairria. which
were trusted to cur eyed .taith a.od honeety..• The tathrilles et*
England, he was pecatd to nay, bad never separated tiair eau', e
from that of the Czateslies of Irelatd. They now sought as he
relieved from the neceitsity
.of taking- oaths, which were ob_
noxious to their ceoselentents scruplce. conteeterdatet
there was no solid groued fur fca.rina the influence of C,Nt Pope
over the minds of the Catholics of _country. Had .the Dree
of Norfolk, did they thiek, nothieg else .totlo but become tiea
treasonable agent ot a foreign Poles:tato ? - They could attar
hope to be recoeciled with farland short of Catholla Bea.eaci.
patron. Whether, there were danger in that measure or eiet,
there certainly was no safety witaout it. It was enure' to ex-
pect the qaestion would ever die-a natural death. .
Der.-. 1. SIIIIT-II observed, that ,it was not.goperatly leeteen
of what meterials these Reiman Cathelies were composed aetiota
we proscribed by our .laees. -He spoke from a. kneetaeae
of theme Wheei he said, that -a more exemplary, aititietatieuee
moral, and peaceable bO4y there was not in the kings:wit.
They never. found their partici: in Old Bailey, atre6:ete--
inge' • neither did they swell the catalogue cf 'bankrupts', etet
people of a more excellent character tied derrteuiiotot
knew not.
Mr. ROBERTSCIN said, that:his remit-net-its were, are'reeti
known with regard to the Catholics of .Irelarele. He thteaet‘t-
that what they meant to do for. Ireland should be done retteelir .
He had no hatred for Catholic Trelerid, but he fel:in-mei fear :Jr
for Protestant England, and thought the carte of thole Eneet-aa
and Scotchltainaa Cetholica- very different from thatef
Irish. - When the Bill WM brOUght forward for diseoesioe. 1;.%
Meant to mcivi.that.no fletnan Catholic should ite.al ;ewe':
tit in Parliament for ail), E. liar, borough or county. 'The ilea.,
Gentleman was interrupted by the impatience of the /lea et
more, than once in the course of his speed)... , • •
The petition was then brought up,. road, and ordered to jr
printed. • . • •
Mr. COltt;thcei presented a petition frortatiree.lealtdesesta
and seam] of the
,C)ergy of the• County of Norton:, in .k..reur
of the Catholic Glenna. This he took to he the vestals of havicy
•
a
,good 131 shop ; a‘da•lie hoped he should- live to 'congratulate.
that great g 004.-. men, the Bisiiop of. Islortvietteupou tae
success of the qucs.ton. The peEtioneta had rather not have
sent this petition, chi4ing it better fin the Clergy W1=414
silent upon the subject; Let they felt themselves ceette•tepoa
to do so in consequence of seeing pi titions sent up
men n:i the other sideaf the question, .. •
.'!r. Vil9DEFiQieltif; supported the -petition.
Lord 1%1 /IT4"-lNcologiaettthe petitioacre nor .iments
they had expressed. He was, sorry ta-tee.thetdhe•CkriZ;';_cane
rally harleo lest themselves. as to 'heg, the; lleltai t:a..eeitact
the aticendaacy of the Protestant rt•l*.ion by er'...-ied:ng otiose,
sects. It wee pereecilt;.l to iteey aily• itubjeceef the iirfitiet
crown political roarer. .
- The petition was e;; en reed (set; ordered t...) he Teak:ed.
E-.IIANC;;PA-2.1"J0N
Sir F. r_ et the Order of Cee Dey for ti,.
eeconcl rearliote of :be Canicula. Eittencipatien
As salon as the Order of tee . Ares moved,. the. Meg fair
31refirownlow from all pa:is of -tee House 16:firile.k.ut 30'A
general,i.
liROWNLow, aitgr the call had ,collrinoffi. fair tetras
Minutes, neee. • He assured the Ilouseeekut it ue x aa•itteline.'a
full of the seriousness of the sobjectaaof deep, ker.
feetee.; the interests of his ceautry.a,And totatyArvested-of
recollections, that: he came tl the consideratiot):o4bisoat
fully interesting aodpainful queition. 13eforajue•krootecad to
the ettliaideration of it, there was one eeptirrientr a,a
wf. I:swhich. he weetidatatdisguise, and which be,belieT.ed Wes gtot.
rally 'entertained by the House. It was this,eetheeee.- ,eateeteee.
sita.need as me arc in Ireland, we cannot reinaiw7A-...fcr.it..3.)
Tfie tiontlititits of,thae• country, wasitruly disgracef4,- and .irss
such as to render life shore .truly miserable. It wee, tote_ 61:14
divided, by tero,greet relitaioes parties,' which wcee is _sett:vte
little-removed fretp that of actual contest • with. erieleaubtaea-
(Hear, hear, hear !)-;-To relieve the'country froutatidtedretelt-
tion,- sondetarmg or other should be done; the question *1001444it
next arose wettee--what was to be: done?--tlactuel ei °F fu 2kteri
hear'eheaaiaa,We cannot revert to laws Oat wereelgasse.Fs 7.4
foriner aerlOcl, raelther can we step, where we iiititeeeo,:eiaettettei
eari,',Oz.44,l,th.dm_ii.“.l on the; priample of rie-elselelrT; .1174Pri
foreard Uk.,the:pt-inalP le of .00ncemi"
iciiaw *mi., thelge heral feeling ie. ire, azul .trwk.‘.l-43,11441101,.
1.1041.14 any thstig but, OitiVi*len.W°44 C*'l.tiq-1124:C.444104)4
Scltzt Ilte,oppeisition Abe. 04thcliv,{444i7111.S bs4ailitai
anenterions,-beCaUNe it
,_l4!4s:ibilYlt4 otoot
'Aspsttic
aqs it ;Watt neearjle it wn fat] n4eel on prlbetF44.l,4l chio
sit.ote-Was Sotae Jegiee fie hart teen peet us

-`ei7R reposition, through much odium and unpopularity, and
- not without some danger, and be now thought it his duty to
..home forward and declare that his hostility to the claims of the
Catholics was: concomitant with the growing distress and misery
of IrelandoL( Hear, hear! )—Under these circumstances, he.
considered that some great national settlement was indisPensie
-ble ; and for his part, he was ready to go all prudent, indeed
Jell practicable lengths, to promote any measure which could se-
core the peace of that distracted country. If lie was asked whe-
ther he now came forward with those marks of enmity, he did
himself injustice—his feelings to the Romans Catholics nerer
partook of any thing like enmity ; but if he was asked whether
he now came forward, distinguished by_ that oppbsition which
formerly marked his conduct when this question was htought
forward, he was constrained tO.ansWeT"b•Y no means ; his pre-
sent aelingi;lek quite contrary to -those which he formerly-
weleh_ehietaele.,,,manyoaFeho grounds. oh which his hostility
to Ihe"clairiet or the Cathi4ie stood were: nOw. gone ; many. of
The .argumetitth:'whieli behithself find used; and Which he had
-}1 and heed 'lt otheritwere takeh'ainty;•.and those which remain-
ed were considerably weakened. ' In' common sense, and in.
".--tortnooft Witless andeohnieteney, liefelt-hithielf bound to Make
--this Avowal:" If, on-mature-and 'deliberate inquiry, he dlicover-
edtha--. he had been-in error,- lie Was bound at once to say. sit--
tHear !):--and make every atonement which it was poesilife,-by
a:candid declaration of his sentiments. -He was well aware how
f-the avowal of such a change of dpinion afforded grouhd fiiients-
eptcion, anti laid- him. open to ridicule. - lie -should not Wonder
if uncharitable presuinprierhi prevailed with-respect to the sin-
cerity of such a change of opieion. did not coma forwardwith .this avowal of h ispeesen t tipinibnietio set himself right with
House, but-he came forvrard in the hope that many who
now lords upon the question—apart from Inquiry-4 Hear !)
many-Who -are-misled by old facts; and _ of.d prejudices, and in
sane degree alarmed- -by the • Wattling notes of the Catholics
tilenieelves, may •consider the subject Mare...closely, and judge'
after they have inquired. On :sittiik•Sthe _Valtiable • evidence
Which was betbre Parliament, it' was to -be hOped that nrany
would be induced,- by the light of knowledge and truth; to eon-
skier. the subject more attentively; and perhaps to grant those
prayers which were so ardently -pressed; It. Woe() be hoped,
that if both parties were brought forward fairlytogetheiso•they
would, he seized with •romptinctious-visitingS r 'and instead of
tieba*.ing imaginary difY,:Tences, wOuld consult the peaceand
fit ire welfare. of lielandi by. gieing to the grounds of contest
dieton tent. Thesc eiprisileratio.i i were forced open hintelind
he was obliged to act upon them,.or else to neglect •his duty.. As-
tir:hi 14 ()Irian Catholic- relieion, es e. form of religious worship,'
•aeh, as such -compared with- other religions, heShould;jsat no.
Ailing.. Ile did not cliarecterizeit: " Judge nowlesoyett bejudg.
ed,"! was a principle eppliCable to this as well as men y othetques-
ides. With respect to the Rein an. Catholic religion, as a system
involvingTractiCalconsequences and the perfarnianceofsocial du-
ries,as that of weakening the authority which. the Goverritheht had
arieln to exercise oversubje-4s; he ehemlaciiiiy eay,that the dan-
ger hid ceased, although it was'not-fiirrnerly free from such an
imputation. So far, ho from ag'reeing that the Roman
Catholic -religion still retained thecherecter deat.belonged to it in
• former times, he should say that in liadelimieted so much-that it
seetdti now scarcely recognize its identity,. Whet had become of
that power which once sported with' -Prinees—which caused
crowned heads- to-. tremble, and exercise a despotic sway over
almost every country of Europe ? The genies of the age had
given it a death-blowe That coloisal power which laid claim
ice temporal as well as- spiritn elauthorityehad fallen under its
own weight, anti was now confined to rte own spell territory. He
had been thus particular. betatiaelie apprehended this question
to form the very essence of the' ditihrence.whieh existed -on the
question before -the House. !tarns en this occasion lie -had
al wive taken a strong groinie in onooeition to-the'- measure
now before the House.. If it should Vieproved -that the Catho-
lics owned only a-divided 'allegiance to the Monarch, then .were
the Catholics still- fitobjects foreuspicion, and it Was just as wise
as expedient that they should be exclhded from'tinise trusts of
- which they now desired to partake. -On this evidence the qhestion
entirely rests. Hen), man doubts the fullness and sincerity ofthe
allegiance af-Rotnan Catholics to to the King, liehOpedthat man
would have the hardihood to•come.forward and say on whht his
suspicions were gounded. If no such doubt exieted'at to the
allogiance owned by Roman Catholics, he would say-,-" Grant
' their requestseorlet us close this itivelstigatinnta.nddet no light
enter upon the mystery of Irith affitirs."--(Veare heat
What said the high-minded men who came oier from Ireland
to give evidence ? -With these men, notwithstanding the as.
persioeswhich f, d been Meanly thwiwn out; he Was Willing to
make common cause.- -After the evidence of these distinguished
persons, no argument can be maintained against the sincerity
.the Catholics' allegiahce ; and he who shouldprge any thing
as argument, must, in a nicinienti be -covered with signal COn-
fueion.. When the question wae put- to Dr.:Doi-1e if the Pope
-..internieddleti with the right of the King, • or-his authority in
-temporal affairs, what -would be- the.consequence;—the reply of
• Dr. -Doy.te was, the colisequenee would be, • that ive should op-
pose the Pope by all the means in our power, and by the exer-
cite of cur spiritual- -authority: It was.. the evidence of Dr.
Doyle, that if the Pope t401:10 tto seXerciSe'any.authority over
the temporal. rights of the King, the duty of Catholics bound
teem to oppose:the Pope's interference in temporal minters, and
te support the rights of the Kitt; athis. subjects. Such was
the evidence of br. Doyle, and when the question was put to
the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin if the Pope's infltte
ease was orelusieely spiritual; the replyto Dr. Murray was, ht.
t[ e: wards of: Scripture, ." iflylingdoin is not Of this world.'"
words of St. Atiguttin, therefore, we need not be alarm, -
ed with. ungrounded fears. 'the Pope now a dispensing
Fewer, or does be exercise the right of granting anticipated in-
Oulgezicies ? He observed -on -these, because they were-the
grounds on which his former Opposition was fortified, and -the
- grounds on which hostility was offered in Ireland.- • Now;
as to the • confiscated propery, how can it be said that the Ca-
thclict -seek to recover it ? The Catholics hdie lately beers the
erineipah -purchasers of confiscated property. • Confiscated
i
property s considertel by them to be held Muter tire best - and
most _secure title; and what- interest coul' they have in en.
e esvoii:ittgto recover the • confiscated property ?—(Hear,
lear!)--.The:prineipatilifficultieshri the way of settlement had
been, rethought, • retitoved. The only questien.remaining is
'whether-spiritual concerns. are clearly separable from' temporal;
and lie did in his.- heart- think that spiritual and. temporal CO7.
cerns' were plainly' separable. lle thought, no man could • say
that there were any indispensilde connection between them.—
lieder Wiese-circumstances he Brotvelete) was "prepared
to vote for.the. Min. Baronet's mtithme -at the same tinie he
could net think-that the Bill introdticed- by-the tionoßaronet
was the most perfect Rill which, could - be framed- to provide
for the. wants of- the Catholice, and et the same time secure the
tranquillity of Ireland. thohld have contemplated
provision • for the Catholic clergy, hind the' diSqUalification of
4tl.e. freeholders. .TheSe measures were indispensible to form a
comprehensive notivitlistehding this omission, he,
should-vote for the Honourable Baronet's motion, reserving to
itriseif -the power of opposing the-Bil/ altogether, or any par-
tictilar Clause, in a Committee, of -oh the third-reeding, or at
tiny period-when he considered such opposition mast likely to
be successfel.: With respect to the-provision -for the Catholic
:Fwgy, he considered it a Matter of great importance. lie
&bought shell a erovisiM: should be reade_not as a-debt of gra-
titude due to the Catholic Clergy fur their exertions in restoring
-peace; arta Toitieating. hostile. feelings iofi the contrary—vireo-.
stPring the habitS of- intimacy with which they live with their
tacks, and the undoubted influence • which they exercise-over
this understandings of the peopl:i, he did not think they could
hsve done much less • for the.peace of the country.. But-the
provision for • the Catholic Clergy would confer a benefit- 'as
seat, -as. any Which • could arise from -Catholic Ethaneipation.
weld- bring • a elate hit() co-oPeratienhadth - the Govern.
feet, which confessedly :possesses a' poWerful epirittial ihs
Serest overhhe people of Ireland. It was- necessary to- incor-
porere this- body with the State. and he'hoped when;_ like
the • Presbyterians, they discevered that no interference was
Intended with- the independence of 'their religidn, they wortlii
hem.. a good "allies to the State, , and remain inseparably
connected with it. Aktb the restriction of the .elective'fieth ,
chile, considered la evert point of view, paliticaloneral,sek
respects the endless subdivision of -lands; and the endleSs
tiplication of beggars in'this" country,. it would he a most usefel
'tneaeure, and one-which could trot isedisaPproved of
.by any
party.. All parties would rejoice in a measure which joined
-Emancipation "With- theelieqUalification of certain freeholders,
• -and the provision- for the 'Catholic Clergy. The Roman Ca.
italics would be gratified, because the measure.of Emancipa-
tion -came home to' the heart of every one of them ; and. with
regard to the Protestant population, he apprehended that they
-would consider the measures- to which he alluded its the very
best security tehieli could accompany the etincestion
-The House could rade he- ate.cioun to giVe any-triumph. Is must
be the wish of the House',-if possible, to pass -the. Measure that
-would be satisfactory to all parties. -By granting Emancipa.
tidh without accompanying it with the measures to which he
bad adverted, Parliament would estrange the Protestants; and
altholigh Catholic Emancipation•shoUld be "granted, the con-
-ffictihg principle would be found meeting every attempt to en-
," courage industry, and heal the' disthrbahres. of Ireland. In
1792 political power was given to the rabble, and kept from
persons of property and station. Ile now called upon the Hohse
-to eetrace -this unwise step, to take away the poiver from the
-rabble, and give it to property, talent, and station. -The free-
holder in Ifeland was now the joint property of his landlord and
his priest ; he was incapable ofjudgingthe comparative merits
of Mil, candidate, and not sufficiently independent to •do so.
even if-he had 'the power. •He (Bin Goulburn) now-proposed
to givetthe'elective power to those who possessed property and
intelligence, and could estimate the merits of candidates. Re.
had now laid •before the .Rouse the foundations of a national
itettlement, which, in hiseipinion, tvottld to acceptable -to all,
and. he hoped. would insurh the repose of Ireland, and the seCh-
rttyOf the British-Empire..oh (LOud cheees.) • °'
Mr. BA NKES but, wag' inaudible' in the gallery fin se-

~~ r._ ..

veral minutes. The lion. Gentleman was understood to say,
that he was opposed to the measure of emancipation, -because he
considered it dangerous in principle, bat if it should be accom-
panied by the Hon. Member fOr Armagh (Mr. Brownlow) al-
luded, far from considering it less objectionable, he should
count it infinitely more so.--(llciar, hear propoial Io
deprive forty shilling freeholders of the elective fra.nefikie was
harsh.,and unnecessary, and, in his opinion, would .be tyran-
MAL Re now-came to that, part of the subject conritited-wiiii
W-p tagvnent of thy* clergjP,,iipon which he would-remark, that
all4the odium of collecting tithe would lie upon the Protestant
Oirgy,' whilst the Catholic Priests would be paid in the most
convenient manner. 'P#:. lion. Member then (as we understood
.hhts, for he was nearly inaudible during his whole speech) took
a revision of the expence which would attach to .the country by
the allowances that were to be paid under this measure, and ob-
served, that there were 2,500 parishes, and 3.500 Roman Ca-
tholic Priests, to whom it was proposed to give incomes, and
upon this would follow the erection of glebe houseS, which had
been. Sa often adverted to in that House. In addition to this.;,
the College of Maynooth was to be provided for; for, according
to Mr. O'Connell, that establishment was in need of pecuniary
assistance., But surely the House would not go blindly into
such an expence as this, for the purpose of snpporting, the
establishment of a religion inimical to that recognized-and che-
rished by the State; If this measure were carried, it would' be
impossible for the church property to continue as aresent it
was constituted. If Catholics were introduced-into Parliament
it must be altered. If this boon were granted to the Catholics,
he could not see upon what ground it could be refused to every
other class of Dissenters. Upon the best consideration that he
could give the question, haelt it to be so fraught with danger,
that he should move as an amendmentto the motion of the Hon;
Baronet, that instead of the wowl-v-now," the words " this day
six moths" be inserted.

Sir T. LETHBRIDGE and Mr. W. PEEL having arisen
at the same time,
The spEAKEH. dedareti that M. W. PM had first"caught
his eye.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE—Sir, I rise to sound the motion
of amendment.

The SPEAKER—Does the Hon. Member (Mr. W. Peel)
the to second the amendment ? -

.. .
-Mr,.W. PENI. answered in the affirmative, and proceeded-.'
to address the House. The opposition to the Catholic Claims: ' i
was, at present, as strong in Staffordshire, Where lie resided, as- •
it ever had. been. Though he had beard- most imposing argu—
ments and splendid eloquence wasted in the advocacy of the
present-measure, he should confess that they_ brought no new ei
light. of conviction to his mind. The day of Conversion had not -
arrived to him,' as it-had to-hiS -Hoff; Friend. -7-0 far from that,
every. Additional day's experience brought to him new reasons
.for .adhering to the opinions which he had hitherto steadily
maintained on the questitm. The violence of the Catholics
ought not to weigh with.the house as an inducement to pass the
Bill--as to the argument in favour of - it adduced from the nome-
rical importance of the Homan Catholics; he considered it rather
as an argument against them, for the more numerous they were,
the moredangerous it would be to grant to them political power.
If the Catholics were declared admissible to Parliament, a
general election, in which Protestant and Catholic candidates
may be opposed, would excite a universal conflict of religious
and political bad feeling through the country. The presept Bill
was accompanied by two measures most worthy of it, according
to the old phruseenoscitur ex.sociis, That proposed by the'Hiin.
.Member for Staiford,•(Mr. Lyttleton) was as objectionable as it
was 'new ; be• the intended measure 'of a :'7,ble Lord ( Leveson
Gower), namely, that for supporting the Catholic Clergy,• was
still more objectionable.. . The people-of England ought not to.
be taxed to .pay the clergy-of a religion, v:hose doctrines were
so different from their own. The miseries •of Ireland did
not arise -from the absence of political Power among the Ca-
tholics, but from the want of capital, commerce, and educa-
tion. Catholic Emancipation would not relieve Ireland's mi-
series. The- Bill was a Bill of Catholic Aicerolancy. While
he. should continue to revere the religion-in which he had been
educated, and respect the oaths of political attachment which
}wiled taken, he should consirier himself bound to oppose the
concession of further political power to the Roman Catholics of.
the Empire.
Colonel BAGIVELL expressed his firm opinion. that the .
distractions and sufferings of Ireland chiefly-Originated in the
baneful effects of the penal laWsee When_ -those laws were
enacted, it was under the excitement. caus^ed by the enormities
committed by the Reman Catholics; but times had now changed,
and the asperities on-both sides had worn down. Was -it then
just, was it Christian, that they should be called upon so give
perpetuity to the resentment of their ancestors ?.-( Hear, hear !)
—He was satisfied that -the- best -security which could be ob-
tained for the safety of a measure like the present, was the in- '
terests of the Catholics themselves. In Answer to those who
objected to the expense of paying- the Clergy. he would say
. that it would be met -by a reduction of 'KuOO bayonets.—
(Hear,!)-I,le gave his most hearty support to the motion.
Mr. G. DAWSON observed, that .in consequence of what
had fallen from his Hon. Friend the Member
,leir Armagh, and
I,..erit the Hon. Member Who had just sat down, he was most
. anxious to express his sentiments nn the question Were the
House, and he therefore begged ' their indulgence for a short
time. It was with,grcat pain that 'he rote upon. this occasion,
because he felt that the opinionieWhiCh lie was about to declare
were such as many or his Hon. Friends around him would
deerteerrOneous ; but in discharge of his; dirty he was bound to
declare theth. He fully agreed with them in the importance of
this question. It involVed the most serious interests of the
people both of England and Ireland, anti--throughout Europe,
he might say a general expectation' had' been excited in this
matter. Both the • friends and the enemiea of this country ex-
pected something of the most vital importance to result front its
decision to dila empire, each forming thtiirrown opinions, either
of evil or of good, according to their respective dispositions to
wards us. It was not surprising, :therefore, that any 'man
should approach the question with the greatest alarm_ As.
for himself, he could truly say he was alarmed at what might
result from the decision of the question .. either way. On the
one side he dreaded ' the consequences which might fallow
from the upholding of what was Called by some a system of
injustice and of political persecution ; _ on the other - side he
was equally alarmed at the introduction of a system which had
been the dread and terror of many great and illustrious men,
as, calculated to operate fatally to the institutions and best
interests of this country. On the one tide he threaded the
consequences to Ireland that Would follow the refusal of the
demands of the Catholic body there; and on the other he
dreaded the upsetting of every thing that was established not only
m that country but in England also. On the one side he dreaded
the consequerices of leaving the unintelligent mass of the Irish',
people to be worked upon by the insidious arts of every den
gerous demagogue, and on the other side he dreaded to invigo-
rate and consolidate a party in Ireland which-was adverse to all
that was established there either in the Church or in the Go-
vernment, and which was full of the bitterest rancour and dead-,
, liest hatred towards every thing and every person belonging to
the Protestant name. Wh&i such conflicting conseqnences
were poised and balanced- in the scele, it was not a very pleasant
or agreeable duty to docile upon which should or should not be
allowed the preponderanCe. Most heartily would he forego such
a painful task. -If he 'were convinced, as his lion. Friend the
Member for Armagh had been, that peace and tranquillity and
subordination among all classes of the. people Would result froth
the concessions called foe by -the Bill now before the House, he
would most gladly and readily follow his Honourable Friend's
example; he would abandon all. the notions - which he had
hitherto entertained of the dangers ' that would: ensue from
' granting Emancipation to the Catholics, :end would expose him...
- selfeaa his Honourable Friend had done, to all the.ohloquy that
might -be.. cast 'upon him in ctinsequerice 'of-a change in
.his
opmion. But unfortunately, perhaps; for himself, he was not
so_coniiated. - Whatever his cpinioes. bad -been,- whether right
or errimeotA, on this great question, he entertained them still,
and after the best judgment he. could give the subject, he was
compelled to arrive at a different result than that avhieh. the
Honourable Member for-Armagh had come to, and he thought
:those opinions strongly confirmed. by the "evidence now before
[
i the House. .That-evidence..contained- such vast and extensive
v,ews of the present state of Ireland ; especially as the opinions
and habits of the „people: It psi them. into the cabin of the
peasant,-and into the mansion 'of the rich ; into the
_Protest,
ant Church, the.Catholic'Cliapel; and the Presbyterian Meet-
ing-house. -In all those places were to be seen the afflictions
of the people, and-the sad eTects arising from Catholic disc.
bilities. lie agreed with -his -lion. Friend the Member for
Armagh, that these evils ought to be removed; hut he difilired
from him in believing that that could •be 'effected by Catholic
Emancipation. -He theinght his Hon. Friend had not inquired
what the operation of-the 'Catholie religion was when employed
in exerting- a dominion over the nmsions. He -thought bis
Hon. Friend had- alloWed his mind to bp influenced liy the so-
phistry and metaphysical subtlety of. the Catholic_ writers.--
Like many others, he was struck with the observation Which
was male on the examination 'of the Catholic. _Gentlemen be-
ration of the piesent system towards such men as Mr. Make
fcire the Committee-. -It was impossible riot to perceive the oPe-
and Mr. O'Cdnnell. -- It would be folly tot t'. admit that "men
-
of such talents deserved to he enconeeged;'and to participate in
the privileges of their-Profession. It wasimpoasible not to ad_
-
patience and paternal zeal of the Catholic Bishops,
amnior mire
tt
wash
invOssible- not to admire
' Doyle.- ia Invas at. th same time e also the -ability of 1)r.
equally impossible to re-
concile the -.turbulence of Mr. O'Connell in Ireland With his
maderation in England. His party zeal which broke out into
the most inflammatory language while. in .Ireland with -his
mild and cautious demeanour when before the Committee.—
'He must sax, he could harldiv understand how • the friend of
Mr. Cobbett -could be also the friend, of the Hon: Member
'for Westminster, or how he ioUld tie at "the sante time the
'friend and advocate of Univeesae 84047c.and of his _Majetity's
.., .
Vovernnient:-4Hear, hear ;these
" !)eie ciretinataticeacoMpelled