The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-01 00:00:00

nary expenditure in prospect of war, the taxpayers
wculd do well to protest, through their representatives,
against it as ruinous and dangerous to the country.
Mr. HENLEY was surprised that no Member of the
Government had risen to offer some explanation con-
cerning the present vote; for on the face of the estimate
itself there was no explanation which seemed to bring it
within the recommendation of the Committee of last year.
It appeared from a note in the estimates that the sum of
120,0001., proposed to be voted, would be applied
"chiefly" to the south basin and docks, and therefore it
seemed to be left in doubt whether or not the money was
not to be applied also to some other part of the scheme.
Now, if the money were not required for carrying out
existing contracts, or for the completion of the cofferdam
within the recommendation of the Committee of last
year, he should be inclined, unless some satisfactory ex-
planation were given for de-parting from the recommend
ikon of the Committee of last year, to vote against the
grant.
Sir F. BARING said, that the reason he had not risen
before was, that as these arrangements were not made
by him, but by former Boards of Admiralty, he thought
the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Corry) who had for-
merly been Secretary to the Admiralty the proper person
to give an explanation respecting them. With regard to
the recommendation of the Committee of last year, to
which the Hon. Member (Mr. Henley) referred, that
was carried out serictly by the Government, and the
present vote was in conformity with that recommenda-
tion. He was aware that there would bo differences of
opinion as to the expediency of commencing such an out
lay, but, though it might seem large, he had heard from
au' horities well worthy of attention, that this establish-
ment, when formed, would be of great value in case of
war; and the question was—whether, having expended
a considerable sum on the works, they would throw
that all away or proceed in carrying those works
to completion.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The
money he now asked for was money required under
existing contracts, and he believed the contracts went
further than the sum he wished the Committee now to
vote. If the amendment were carried the works would
be stopped and all pcevious expense rendered useless,
and a considerable sum besides must be paid to the con-
tractors for not carrying out the contracts.—(Hiar,
ear.) His Hon. Friend (Sir W. Molesworth) had not
Drought forward an ameadment like the present last
year, under the idea, no doubt, that the country was
bound by *ono:sets; but, having then allowed the works
to go on, would it be wise in his Hon. Friend now to stop
them?—(Hear.)
Mr. HENLEY inquired what portion of the 120,000/.
Mould be required to complete the works which the Com-
mittee of last year recommended, and how much further
the Government was bound by existing contracts?
Sir F. BARING replied, that the whole sum was re-
iuired under the contracts.
Mr. HENLEY thought that, after the recommenda-
tion come to by the Committee of last year, the estimate
on its face should clearly show that the expenditure was
to be limited to that particular branch of works within
the recommendation of the Committee.
Sir F. BARING repeated that the Government bad
carried into effect the recommendation of the Committee.
Captain BERKELEY, in reference to the argument
used by an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Cobden), that it was
not necessary for the Royal Navy to have a steam basin,
because there was no such thing as a steam-basin for the
mercantile navy, requested the Hon. Member to look to
the East and West India Docks, and see if there were no
steam-basins there.
Mr. PETO said that he bad examined the works at
Keyham, and there would have been, in his opinion, no
difficulty in having a close estimate of the total outlay
before the commencement of the works.
Mr. COWPER explained that the sum of 120,0001.
proposed to be voted would be applied to the works con-
nected with the cofferdam according to the recommenda-
tion of the Committee of last year.
Mr. COBDEN observed, that what he had stated was
that no private steam-boat builder had a basin for the
purpose of putting steam-engines and boilers on board
ship; and he repeated the statement.
Mr. B. SMITH thought that a very small sum might
be necessary to complete a sea wall, and the making of
docks and basins might be reserved till some future op-
portunity.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment ... 27
Against it ... 101
Majority ...

--74

The vote was then agreed to; as also was a vote o,
68,4001. for miscellaneous services.
On the next vote, which was 232,2521. to complete the
sem necessary for the charge of half-pay officers of the
Navy and Royal Marines.
Mr. M. GIBSON, referring to his statement on a
former occasion with regard to the number of officers,
observed that in what he bad said he had the authority
of a very distinguished officer in the British navy, Sir
J. Stirling, who stated before the Lords' Committee
that welled got 8,000 officers of one kind or another in
the eaeY, and that we only wanted^4,ooo, and that by
bringir g the number within its proper limits the officers
would be in almost continual employment, their skill as
well as their emoluments would be increased, and there
might be effected by this and the contemplated reduction
in respect of pensions, &c., a saving equal to the keep
of 20,000 able seamen.
Sir F. BARING thought as an Hon. Member (Mr.
Hume), who was absent, unwell, intended to bring this
subject before the House, it would ba better to discuss
it when ho should do so.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY called attention to the num-
ber of cadets introduced, as being beyond what could be
advenced.
Sir F. BARING remarked that the Committee recom-
mended a limit, and there was now a limit by a minute
of Lord Auckland's. The number introduced in the
year was not to exceed 100.
Thu vote was then agreed to, as also was a vote of
300,5611. to complete the charge for military pensions
and allowances, of 61,357/. for civil pensions and allow-
ances, and 147,2001. for freights and stores on account of
the army and navy ordnance department.
The next vote was a sum of 748,2961. for the Post-
office padket service.
Mr. FLOYER wished to know how the sum for con-
veying the mail to the Channel Islands, which was for-
merly 2,0001. when carried from Weymouth, was now
raised to 4,000/.?
Mr. COWPER said the increase in the amount from
2,0001. to 4,0001. was caused by the circumstance that,
when contractors were last advertised for, the only par-
ties who made an offer were the old contractors, and, as
they made a tender for double the amount they formerly
had, there was no alternative but to concede it. As to
the second point, when Weymouth was the point of em-
barkation, the packets belonged to Government; but
the contractors who afterwards got the mail preferred
Southampton. There were reasons for thinking that
Weymouth was a better point of embarkation than
Southampton, but Government was not always at liberty
to select the port in such cases.
In answer to a question by Mr. FLOYER,
Mr. COWPER said, when the contract was adver-
tised, the port of Southampton alone was mentioned, as
it was not considered that Weymouth would be so con-
venient a port till the works at the Isle of Portland were
finished.
Sir T. ACLAND asked when the period would expire
for carrying the East and West India mails from the
port of Southampton?
Mr. COWPER replied that the contract might be
terminated on the Ist of January, 1853.
In answer to a question by Mr. MONSELL,
Mr. COWPER said, till the contract for the North
American mails terminated, the Government could not
carry into operation any plan for making Valentia the
tof embarkation.
Mr. COBDEN thought this vote should not be allowed
o pass without a few words. The large sum of 748,000/.
here put down might make it appear that there was no
profit from the Post-office system at all since it was re-
formed ; but it was to be considered that very large sums
were expended in carrying the mails betwixt such places
as Alexandria and Beyrout ; Singapore and Sydney,
New South Wales; and between Ceylon and Hong•
Kong. Fur the last a sum of 45,000/. was charged; and
for the carrying of the mails betwixt this country and
the West Indies there was a sum of no lees than 240,0001.
a year, while the gross amount of postage received was
not more than 60,0001. a year. Now, it could not be ex-
pected that the Post-office department would carry let-
ters at such a cost to the West Indies without some ade-
quate motive; and that motive he believed to be, to put
it in the power of the Government to avail themselves in
time of war of the large steamers required for this ser-
vice, and which, according to contract, were made to
carry guns. He hoped, however, that this vote would
not go forth in such a way as would be calculated to in-
jure Post-office reform in the eyes of the world. He
thought that in making these Post-office arrangements
respect Should be had to the number of letters to be
carried from one place to another. He was not in favour
of those charges being placed to the account of the Ad-
miralty; but at the same time he thought that greater
care might be taken in making the arrangements.
Sir F. BARING believed that the arrangements as to
the West Indies were in existence before the Post-office
reform took place. They took upon themselves the duty
of establishing communications with every part of the
empire, and in doing so they were not to consider whe-
ther every communication would pay or not, but whether
it was necessary to the commerce) of the country.—
(Ilear.) Nor did he think that these expensive commu-
nications to India, and other parts of the empire, at all
told against Post-office reform.
Mr. COBDEN admitted the great advantage of having
Post-office communication with all parts of the world,
but he thought such corereaunication should have some
reference to the number of letters passing
to
and from
this country. According to the system of the Right
Hon. Gentleman, a direct communication mightbe
started at once betwixt this country and New Zealand.
Mr. HENLEY thought these expenses had been very
much forced upon the country by the arguments of the
commercial classes, who sought every facility for extend-
ing commerce.—(flear.)
Sir. BRIGHT had understood his Hon. Friend only to
say that seferenceshould be made to the number of let-
ters carried in any arrangement made, and that we should
not expend 246,0004 when only 60,0001. was derived
from letters. The contrary principle was a very objec-
tionable one indeed. Whatever steps might be taken
with reference to matters connected with the Post-office,
he always had entertained a strong conviction that
nothing ought to be done in any manner calculated to
interfere with the success of the penny postage through-
out the United Kingdom. He considered it most im-
portant not to allow foreigners fora moment to suppose
failure. The that the penny postage had been a
intro-
duction of it was a great reform, and hardly any reform
could be greater or more !mportant.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob-
served, that the penny postage had no connexion what-
ever with steam navigation, but, as the former had been
mentioned, he might be permitted to say, that looking at
the result of the penny postage, no experiment could
have been more satisfactory than it had proved. The
number of letters passing through the Post-office had

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