The Sun.
London, England, 1838-01-26 00:00:00

CANADA.

On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, the Order
of the Day for going into Committee on the Government
of Canada Bill was read.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to state, before the
Speaker left the Chair, that he had a great nurabor of
amendments to make in the clauses of the Bill, and he
therefore thought that it would be the more convenient
course, if, after the discussion with respect to the prin-
ciple of the Bill, it was committed pro forma, in order
that it might be printed and put into the hands of
Members.

In reply to a question from Sir R. PEEL,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he would be ready to pro-
ceed with the Bill to-morrow. The alterations were merely
in the framing of the clauses, and not in the substance of
the Bill itself.

Sir ROBERT PEEL expressed his surprise that the
Noblo Lord should have proposed this course. If Ow
amendments were merely verbal, why not make them to-
night P--( Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) The
Noble Lord had declared his intention of proceeding with
the Bill de die in diem, and he certainly thought that there
was a great inconsistency in the course now proposed by
him.—(Hear, hear.)

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he doubted if the
House could conveniently discuss the amendments to-
night, because from his experience he seldom found that
the House was able to give due consideration to the amend-
ments, even th 911,411 verbal, when put by the Chairman.—
(Hear, hear.) The course he proposed was certainly the
more convenient one.

Mr. 'WARBURTON then rose and said, that as
several Hon. Members had expressed a wish to de-
liver their opinions with respect to the principle of
a Bill which made such change in the laws and principles
by which one of the most important of the British colonies
was governed, and as he had already had an opportunity of
twice delivering his opinions on the subject, he proposed on
the present occasion to oppose the Speaker's leaving the Chair,
rin order to give those Hon. Gentlemen the same advantage.
The measure which he (Mr. Warburton) proposed was a
radical cure for the discontents prcv. Bing in Canada, and
she wished to take this opportunity of more fully stating his
opinion upon this subject than he had hitherto done. The
remedy which he proposed was an amicable separation be-
tween the mother country and the colony.—(lronical
Cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) He would
state what occurred to him in defence of this proposal. The
mother-country conferred the greatest possible boon upon
,the colony, when in 1791 it gave to the Colony the be-
' nefit of popular representation—he Ting the benefit of
that representation, the Colony had endovoured to ob-
tain the complete recognition of many important privileges
and liberties, which endeavours had been invariably re-
sisted by the different Goveraors. By one Governor the
Members of the Assembly hail been committed to
prison ; by another the voting of the estimates by the
House of Assembly had been strenuously opposed. The
Duke of Richmond opposed to the utino4 the voting
of the estimates item by item by the Assembly. Still in
many of these attempts to maintaie their privileges the
Assembly was successful. Out of a revenue amount-
ing only to 600,000/. the Coloqi it Assembly had
proposed to devote twelve per cent. for the pur-
poses of National Education.—( Hear, hear.) Was
that a proof of the want of intelligence ?—(Hear.) Was
this House prepared to give 12 per cent. OR the
full revenue of this country in support of National
Education in England, Ireland, and Scotland ; and yet
would they charge against the Colonial Assembly of Ca-
nada want of intelligence, want of advancement, not being up
to the spirit of the age, when they were prepared to
devote -12 per cent. of the revenue in support of the na-
tional education ? In consequence of this conduct., there
was no denying that they had won the affections of the
French Cenedian inhabitants. Let them look at the large
majorities which had been returned in successive Parlia:-
meats, and theneleny, ifthey could, that they had won the affec-
tions of the people. In giving to the Canadians under the Act
of 1791, the benefits of popular representation, and not being
prepared to follow out all the consequences that as a mist-
ter of course and necessity arose out of popular repre-
sentation, he attributed the unfortunate estrangement which
had taken place between the mother country and the colony.
If they looked at what had taken place in Upper and
Lower Canada, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and New-
foundland, they would find that the aim of the people was
not only popular representation, but a responsible execu-
tive.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) By a responsible exe-
cutive he meant, that if there was a majority in
the House of Assembly against that Government,
which was put o'er them by the Colonial Government at
home, or if the course recommended by the Administration
at home was disapproved of by them, what they asked
was power to dismiss the executive, and to place in their
stead Ministers who would act in conformity with the
wishes of a majority of the inhabitants. If in the mother
country the Administration should be outvoted, and yet
in spite of that, the Administration were to continue to
occupy their position on the Treasury Bench, and set at
defiance" the wishes of the majority, what would be
thought of such a course of proceeding ? In Lower
Canada, by a majority of ten to one, the Ministerial
Bench were outvoted.—(Hear, hear.) What would
be said here, if in defiance of a majority, the Ministers
were to keep possession of the Treasury Bench, and
thus defeat the wishes of the popular party?—( Hear.)
What had the Colonial Secretary told them ? Why, that
making the executive responsible, was a measure in-
compatible with Colonial Government. Let the House
attend to what ,:ppeared to him to be the measure by
which all that affected the colonies according to their
present system was to be regulated. It was not re-
guleted by its utility as it affected the colonies, but by
anotlo r rule and standard—by whether it was cal-
culated to assert the superiority of the mother coun-
try over her colony or not.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
1 hat was the standard by which every measure was
now to be judged. He would say, therefore, that it
was not to be wondered at that extensive disaffection and
dissatisfaction should prevail in their Colonies, and it must
be so until they gave them the benefits of responsible
Government.—(Cheers.) He would say, therefore, that
in his opinion, by a large and liberal concession at
the present moment, in which measures of concession he
comprehended an intimation and signification to the colonies
that they were prepared, if the colonies wished it, for the
purpose of improving their own form of Government—
that they were prepared deliberately to discuss with
them by what course of measures the independence
of fie colony might best be brought about—
if the House was prepared to make that communication
to them, in his (Mr. Warburton's) opinion the colonies
would be ready to take from them any measures prepa-
ratory to that great object, and thereby a reconciliation
would take place between the colony and the mother
country.—(Hear, hear, hear.) But it; on the contrary,
they determined not only i
to restore but perma-
nently to retain their authorities n these colonies, then
in his opinion no measures that could be proposed would
be likely to bring about a lasting reconciliation.—( Hear.)
The dissatisfaction that prevailed in the colony, ap-
peared to him to have arisen, not only from those cir-
cumstances which he had already pointed out, but it ap-
peared to him particularly to have arisen from the
attempt on the part of the Government here to force
institutions upon the colony which were utterly inconsis-
tent with the state of society there. The state of
society in the colony, disguise it as they would, was es-
sentially Democrat.—{Cheers.) The laws that prevailed
in the colony, particularly that with respect to the
equalization of property, were essentially favourable to
democraticinstitutions. The Government, here, however,
instead of framing their laws or their measures to the state of
society in the colony as it at present existed, had been in vain
endeavouring to raise up an aristocracy in the country, to
which they had entrusted a large share of the representation of
the colony. To suppose that such a thing could be
effected was, in his opinion, a complete chimera.
The approbation of aristocratic institutions arose only in
old States. The institutions proposed off hand for the pur-
pose of the acceptance of the colony were avowedly
for the purpose of forming an Aristocracy there—that lie
would venture to say would never take effect. The
only way in which aristocratic habits were looked upon
in a favourable light in old countries was on account of
their having been conquered. Habits of submission gene-
rated notions of respect for aristocratic institutions. But
in a country where there was equal distribution of wealth,
the attempt to set up aristocratic institutions was the
vainest chimera that could ho conceived, and could only end
in the most extensive disaffection in the Colony. This, and
this alone, he would venture to say, had led to the dissa-
tisfaction that had prevailed in Lower Canada. Added
to this, there was the contagion of the free institu-

Cons of the country with which it was in immediate
contact. The great ground of disaffection in the Co-
lony was that the Government here was endeavour-
ing to force upon them a Con►titution totally
incompatible with the state of society there.—(Hear.)
Were there not moral wants as well as physical ones ?
They did not wish to encourage free institutions in our

own country, only but to see them settled in every part
of the world. They had given aid to the spread of liberty in
Greece, in Poland, in South America, and in Hanover—why
therefore was it that they would consider it fair to ex-
clude the Canadians to whom they had given so large a share
of liberty—why condemn that people because they aspired to
a greater share of liberty than she had yet enjoyed ? So for from
the physical comfort which they enjoyed being an argument
in favour of their resting contented, it was the very reason
why they should aspire to a greater degree of liberty. He did
not wish they should go into the matter in a partial or hasty
manner—he wished to go about it in such a manner
as that they might prepare for an emancipation of
not only Canada, but of the whole of our possessions
in North America. Various objections had been made to
the plan of emancipating the Colonies. It was said that the
proper time had not arrived—that the people them-
selves did not wish for a separation—(Cries of
" Ilear, hear")—that so far from wishing to part from
us, they are still very warmly attached to our sway.
Was it not desirable that emancipation should be brought
about while there existed an affection for the mother
country ? But would they, as he was afraid they would,
defer granting emancipation as a measure of policy and
justice, until it was forced upon them by the most
expensive disaffection, and until it was wrested from
them, as it was in the case .of the colonies of the United
States? But then it was said the Colonists did not desire
emancipation. They did not express their wishes for a
separation from the mother country for many reasons.—
( Hear, hear.) In the first place he apprehended
if any person in the Colony were now to express
a wish for separation from the Mother-country, he would
be branded by the loyal party as a traitor. Persons could
not openly maintain teat doctrine fur fear of the conse-
quences that would follow to themselves. But, how-
ever, he had shown to the House that the people were
in favour of a measure which they themselves stated
was incompatible with colonial Government—they were
in favour of a responsible executive, and it was said a re-
sponsible executive was compatible with Colonial Govern.
ment. He proved, therefore, that they were in support
of a measure that was incompatible with Colonial Govern-
ment ; and •would the House not draw the necessary in-
ference, that, being in favour of what was incompatible with
Colonial Government, they longed for and aspired to eman-
cipation itself ?—( Hear.) What was the charge brought
against them when they asked for an elective Council and
a responsible Executive ? They were then charged with
being in favour of a separation from the mother-
country. They argued for it in disguise, because, as
he had told the House, they would be branded as
traitors if they desired it openly.—( Hear.) Then the
difference of race- had been brought as an argument. It
might be an argument against immediate separation.—
(Loud cries of hear.) Certainly it might be an excellent
argument against a hasty separation without due ma-
ternal regard for the inhabitants of the colonies.
This jealousy arose out of the Orangeism of the country.
He did not use the word in an offensive expression, but
this jealousy arose from the undue favour that had been
shown to one race, and the extent of the subju-
gation and submission in which the British Par-
liament had kept the other.—( Hear, hear.) Where
equal laws were extended to people of different races,
those jealousies would be all at an end. This had been
exhibited already in reference to Canada itself, when
in the year 1828 all agreed in petitioning for the re-
moval of the admitted common abuses. In the Unite,'
States, where every race was to be found, no difference
of race gave rise to jealousy. In New Orleans, when the
people found that they were to he governed by an equal
protection, they agreed universally to support the universal
law. If the House then would not in a hasty manner but
in a prudent manner bargain with the parties concerned for
equal protection and equal preservation of rights, all jea-
lousies would terminate. While there was still a great
remnant of affection for the mother country, if the House
would determine on a separation, and bargain for
the titles of the British settlers, every jealousy
and unkind feeling one to the other would perish.
He acknowledged that emigration was undoubtedly a very
great advantage to this country ; but it was not to our
colonies emigration was chiefly directed. On the contrary
it was greatest to those countries which had been emanci-
pated from colonial dependence. At present the amount
of emigration to the whole of our North American
colonies was no more than 30,000 persons annu-
ally ; whereas- the emigration to New York alone
amounted to 60,000.—(Hear, hear.) So that in the event
of our emancipating the North American colonies, there
would be ns diminution, but, on the contrary, a con-
siderable increase of emigration.—( Hear.) We need
only trust to the interests of the colonies themselves,
and he was sure that they would, although independent,
receive with open arms all the emigrants who would
think proper to go to them. As to the question of trade, it
must be of great importance to carry on trade with such
extensive countries as our North American Colonies. But
then it was well known that we lost a great deal by giving
them the monopoly of the timber trade to which he had al-
ways been opposed. The whole amount of the export trade
from Canada and New Brunswick was 1,300,0001. annually,
and of that 1,000,0001. was in timber alone ; yet rather
than go to a war of independence with them, he
would seellingly give them a lease of the timber mono-
poly fur a term of years, and they would be too happy to
accept the offer. Owing to an omission in a Bill of Mr. Hue.
liisson's the Americans were thus enabled to avail themselves
of this prisilege, and he had no doubt that if they afforded
them an opportunity they would be but too happy to
afford thean continued supplies. It was contended that this
extensive trade in bad timber was in some degree the
cause of their great naval power, inasmuch as it gave rise to
the carrying trade. Now he was prepared to shew that the

falling off in this latter species of trade, or indeed any in-
jury to their naval power were not contingencies to be
. apprehended from the separation of the colony from Great
Britain, because it was equally in their power to carry
on that trade as well after an amicable separation as be-
fore it. If this trade in timber were necessary to the sus-
tentation of their naval power, which he was not prepared to
admit, he would say, that in order to give that support.
the neatest effect, they ought to release the Canadas
from their controul. A great deal had been said with
respect to the diminution of power which Great Britain
would sustain if she consented to this step. So far,
however, from Canada being a source of power, she
was a source of weakness. In the first place, it took
a largo portion of her foices to keep down the revolted
Province, and to prevent others from becoming disaffected.
One of the greatest sources of happiness was security ; bat
so long as the Colonies were continued in a state bordering
upon revolt, peace insist necessarily be endangered. It was
said, however, that if independence were conceded to the
North American Colonies, the example would be contagious.
and would spread to our other Colonies, Now, many of
our foreign establishments were merely of a military na-
ture. The rule applied to our North American Colonies,
therefore, could not be applicable to these settlements, the
inhabitants of which had no notions of civil liberty.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) But in colonies similarly circumstanced with
the Canadas—colonies which, being already possessed,
of a large share of civil liberty were anxious to extend
that liberty—he (Mr. W.) would say that the additional
share of freedom ought to be granted to them. With
regard to the question of revenue, it was not dis-
puted that both the mother country and the colonies
would be gainers by the independence of the colonies. '
The colonies would gain the simple and cheap form
of Government which they desired, and the mother country
would save all the expenses of the civil and military
establishments in the colonies, to say nothing of
the vast outlay to which it had been put for canals,
&c., in the North American settlements.—(Hear, hear.)
He considered the best foundation of national honour was
the obtaining a character of clemency and justice. If they
did not accede to their demands in full, they would have
to rule over a disaffected people, and they could
not maintain that rule without the recurrence
of those slaughterings and burnings, which in the eyes of
all Europe would be considered as reflecting on our
natioNd character for clemency and justice. They
could not maintain their empire in that Colony without
losing that character.—(Cries of " Question.") The period
of separation ought not to be deferred until the desire for
it arose to such a height, that what they refused to concede
to justice they would be compelled to yield to force. If
they now gave separation as a boon, all questions of right
which would arise between the mether-country and
the various colonies might be moulded to our wishes,
whilst a feeling of amity prevailed between the
colony and the mother country,—(Hear, hear.) In
reading over the Bill he 'was sorry to find that the power
to be granted to the Governor and Commissioner was to
be confined to Upper and Lower Canada, and that lie was
not to be empowered to call together the representatives
from all the North American Colonies, for the purpose
of concerting measures f r some great federal union.
That appeared to him (Mr. W.) the only mode in
which a lasting settlement could be made of this great
question, and while they were concerting measures for a per-
manent settlement of the great differences that had arisen
between the colony and the mother country, and between
two of the provinces of Upper and Lower Canada,
he was sorry that provision was not te be made for rem-
bining all the North American provinces into one great
federal state, which might offer some chance of the balance
of power against the gigantic power growipg up in the United I

~.

States. If the Bill had offered to the Colonies emanci-
pation, that would have been, in his opinion, the best peace-
offering that could have been made them ; and in order
to effect that object he (Mr. W.) would have been wil-
ling to vote for great power being given to the Go-
vernor. But the object proposed to be effected by thse Bill
was of by far too limited a nature permanently to settle the
differences between the colonies and the mother country:.
On these grounds lie should, in every stage, oppose that.
Bill ; and although he would advise his friends not to di-
vide upon the question of the Speaker leaving the chaie,
he hoped upon the third reading the Journals of the Holmes
would record their votes against the measure.—(Hear.)
Mr. E. ELLICE assured the House that he approached
the subject with great doubt and difficulty ; but in conse-
quence of what had passed on a former debate, and
from an apprehension of the serious consequences that might
ensue front any great division in that House on any part
of the BEI, leading to misapprehension in Canada
with respect to the feeling of the public in England
upon that subject, lie had thought it his duty to offer to the
consideration of her Majesty's Government a suggestion
of whether it might not be possible, looking at the advant-
age of unanimity upon that question, so to alter the
preamble cf the Bill, as to prevent all misunderstanding.—
Laughter from the Opposition Benches.) Hon.. Gentle-
men opposite might take that statement as they pleased.
If lie had party objects in view he should never adopt
the course he intended to do. He felt a personal interest
in the subject, and that personal interest had been
one of the great reasons why he had not hitherto
taken any part in the discussions on this subject.
When, however, lie saw all parties nearly agreed
in principle—for he must think, after what had been stated
by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, and his Noble .I.riend.
below bins, that they were agreed on the importance of the,
principle—he thought they should get the better of party-
considerations—(Cheers)—and endeavour to frame those
measures that would be attended with the most beac-
fieial effects—(Great cheering)—and they should also
give to those who were carrying it into effect the best means
of reconciling all parties. He assured the Hon. Gentle-
men opposite, who had received his statement with 0-
cheer, that until five minutes before he came into that
House, nothing was further from his mind than making the
proposition he was about to do. He appealed to all his
friends below him, whether they were aware of Lis intention
to do so until he gave his Noble Friend notice of it since
Le entered that House. Before he proceeded further he
thought he was bound to state to the House the consideriatiens
which had induced him to give his support to the present is !fl-
it might not be in the recollection of the House :lust
as early as 1822 his Majesty's Government then at his;
suggestion—of a certainty it was him that suggested
brought in a Bill for the future Government of Canada.
That suggestion was made under serious apprehensionsot the
eircarnstances which have lately transpired. That suggestioda
was made upon the principle which had been advocated
on many occasions by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Warburton),
viz., that we should form in Canada a strong Govern-
ment, and to make it a country so great as to prevent the,
possibility of its ever becoming a State under the Arne.-
rican sway.—(Cheers.) He never fora moment proposed that.
the Canadas were to be governed by the exercise ist the
prerogative ; he did not wish that they should know Any
thing of it ; he wished that the Canadians should
have every advantage in the connection ; and he wished
not to keep them in subjection for one moment
longer than they thought the connection was beneficial to
themselves. He then said that they ought to establish fl"
Government which they might reasonably expect would sa-
tisfy all classes of our fellow-subjects in Canada—that they
should govern the country with a silken chain, and
so far from forcing them to a submission after
they were tired of the yoke, we should en-
courage them in their attempt at self-government
under our protection.—( Loud cheers.) He was perfectly
aware of the grievances of the Canadas--in 1828 he gang
evidence of them before the Committee ; but not as the
grievances of a party in lower Canada, but of all our Arne--
rican Colonies. He was bound to say that since then the (sauna
try had not been governed in accordance with hisprinciplege
He felt bound to say that, because his friends below him
connected with the Government knew it. He thought
it right that it should be stated to the Canadians
what they would do, and what they would not ; and that
when the question came to this, whether they should
give up the revenue, and place it under the controul of the
Assembly of the Lower Province, that they should say at
once they would not—because the Government of tnat
country would be as impracticable as the Govern-
ment of Ireland would be, if one party were allowed
to hold the purse-strings, and to say whether it WO
fit to pay the public officers or not. Suppose the
Lord Lieutenant of Ireland were placed in this situation,
would it be said that one of the two rival parties who had
just raised itself, as lie thought—but perhaps Gentlemen
opposite might differ from him upon that—from 8-
state of oppression under which they had long laboured,
ought to be entrusted with the domination over those wio
had before opposed them ? The party oppressed, in turns
became the greatest oppressor, and it was impossible for
this country to administer a Government in Canada
by which they were to place the purse strings entirely
in the hands of one of the two parties. He had
therefore differed entirely in opinion with Lord Goderich
when he gave up the King's revenues, the only means by
which power could be retained over those two parties.
That revenue having been abandoned, he (Mr. H.)
well knew the next demand that would be made.
Before making those concessions they ought to have con-
sidered what means of carrying on the practical Govern-
ment existed.—(Hear, hear.) It was all very well to
talk of a system of Government.—(Hear, hear, bear.)
nor would he be found at any time to shrink from the ap-
plication of the principles which he had formerly advocated,
as far as they were practicable. It might be said that in.
the case of Canada it was possible teegovern by means of
the majority. He adm in ordinary cases the principle wag
correct ; but the application of it to the case of Cauatia
would be opposed by the feelings, passions, and prejudices
of Lower Canada never could be governed by the
majority, neither would it be possible to govern it by the
minority. What the Government ought to do was
that which had been done in respect to Ireland. They
should have kept the means in the Executive to pal
the officers of justice, and the expences of the Govern-
ment.—(Hear.) They ought to have retained in the
Executive the power by which alone it could hold
the balance between the two rival parties.—( Hear.) That
was his feeling with respect to the Government of Lower
Caeada ; and he would new tell the House that no settle-
ment of existing differences would lead to anything but civil
strife, which in the anomolous state of that country did
not give the Crown the power to become the arbitrator
between the two parties. He (Mr. E.) saw gentlemen
writing letters in the newspapers on this subject, in which
they said that the -House of Assembly ought to Lave the
controul of the purse strings, and that the only way to do
justice was to give that power to them, conjointly with an
elective Council. If that Council ware granted, he should have
thought it difficult to govern on the monarchical principle.
He did not say that he would have done so without giving
them time for ample reflection, and endeavouring to per-
suade them that the advantages which they enjoyed
under the British Government were greater than they
would enjoy under any other Government. No form of
Government, let it be recollected, was perfect. Even in
America, different parties accused each other of malversa-
tion, as in this country. Therefore, would he have tried to
convince the people of Upper Canada, that the form of Go-
vernment under which they now lived was better than
any that they could possibly possess. If, however, they
did net yield to his arguments, he would not be disposed
to resist the concession.—(Hear.) But how different
was the case in Lower Canada, where the question
was, whether the Assembly would pay the Judges, which
they refused to do until an elective Council should be
granted. Now, that would place the power of the State
in the hands of the French party ; and, as he had told M.
Papineau himself, it would be impossible to take such a mea-
sure against the English inhabitants, who well knew
that it would result in placing them in the power of their
political antagonists—it would have been imposible
for the British Government to have taken this
course, if the connexion between the two countries
were to be maintained.—(Hear, hear.) Supposing
the British troops had been withdrawn from the Colony.
the first consequence would have - been a most san-
guinary war—for the British party could not be ex-
pected to yield without a struggle.—(Hear, and cheers.)
If they had been defeated, they would have become
hewers of wood and drawers of water to the
off-scourings of society. The Canadians had no means of
governing themselves ; there would hare been a loss of life
and property which it would have taken years to restore.
He knew well the passions of the people ; and even in
1828 they had risen to such a height that it was almost
impossible to repress them. The House would recollect
that the power of the United States to prevent the
citizens taking part in the contest was very limited,
and did his Hon. Friends below him suppose that their
sympathies would be all one way—that they would be all
with the English race ? Flow easy would it be to divide
Canada into the States of New York, Vermont, and
Maine ? And without imputing any improper motives
to the citizens of the United States, every body knew that
they considered their Government a good one for their
purposes, and that the minority should submit to the majo-
rity. Would the American form of government be more pa-
latable than the British form of government to the Canadians ?
Gentlemen who had looked into the subject, were surely
not of that opinion. Providence had provided th• difficulty
for them—it was their duty to provide against it. He
was one of those who thought that Government ought
to have taken some bolder steps in time. He would

Lave acted on a different principle from that which influ-
enced his Noble Friend ; but at the same time he admit-
ted that it had its defence. He only wished to make one ob-
servation more. His Hon. Friend the Member for Bridport
had said that it would be better for them to retreat from

Canada altogether, and to make the best bargain they could
for the rights of this country. Now he, for one, did not want
to make any bargain on the subject—his rights were secured
by the British Parliament—he wanted no other security.—
< Hear, hear.) He certainly heard of strange doctrines having
been preached by certain gentlemen in this country. He would
tell those gentlemen, that a great portion of the misery now
gain on in Canada had been caused by their advice—( Hear,
Isera.r)—advice, he hoped, not given from any bad feeling, but
from mistaken motives. The Canadians were now engaged in
a hopeless revolt—a revolt to which the whole of their na-
tional prejudices 'would not have driven them, were it not
for the delusive statements of their leaders. They told the
simple people that by fighting they would obtain uncoi-
trolled possession of the property for which they now paid
rent. lie had heard it stated that his property was to have
been the first doomed to confiscation.—( A laugh.) But what
Government, on whose protection they might throw them-
selves, would consent to such a state of things ? Did they
Think a Republic would do it? He happened to be in his
own person the best evidence of what was the practice of
Republican Governments in such cases. The people of the
United States, after their revolution, had restored to him the
!property held by his family in that country, on which pro-
perty he had lived ever since ; and he must say, much to their
credit, that, even when afterwards he was an alien enemy,
being the subject of a King at war with them, the State of
New York, where his property lay, never talked of disturb-
tng him, but, on the contrary, showed every disposition to
vnsure him its quiet possession.—( lear, hear.) It was not,
therefore, the fear of confiscation which induced him to speak;
if the Canadians were driven into connection with the States,
his property might, perhaps, be as safe as it now was, under
the protection of the British Parliament.—( Laughter.) He
would only say that this poor misguided people must have
been grossly deluded into this revolt. He had seen the
people of a great many differeut countries, and so con-
tented, so kind, so good a people as the French Canadians
he never met with.—(Hear, hear.) It must have been a
strong inducement that impelled such a people to revolt—it
must have been the delusive promises of their leaders to free
them from rent. His owe tenants, who were not among the
rebellious, had declared to his agent that they would not pay
any rent until they saw how the people got en who were
fighting.—( Laughter.) He thought they were right. This
was the true state of the case. Ile had now to speak of M.
Papineau, and in doing so he wished to speak of him as a man
of blameless character and high talents, but one whose ungo-
vernable passions had led him into much folly. Ile did not
Snow how far as yet that gentleman was engaged in this re-
volt—( Hear, from Mr. Warburton)—but certainly he was the
leader of a party in the House of Assembly which had ♦ery
much encouraged it ; he was a man of the most headstrong
ambition, but one who had proved how unfit he was to govern
others by the little wisdom he had shown in governing himself.
In the present state of parties no great majority could be ob-
tained on either side, and he would therefore suggest to his
Noble Friend below him, whether it was not possible to hit

upon tome arrangement which would meet the wishes of all
parties. He rather agreed with the Right Honourable Baro-
net that his NJble Friend who had undertaken this difficult
mission should be left entirely to his own judgment.—( Hear,
bear.) He saw a great difficulty in his Noble Friend's fol-
lowing his instructions respecting the Advising Committee. In
the present excited state of parties in Canada he would find a
choice extremely difficult; but the difficulty would no lie
with the poor Canadians, but with the victors.—( Hear, hear. )
His Noble Friend, therefore, should be left to his own judg-
ment in finding out the state of public opinion in his Govern-
ment. There would be no difficulty with the Upper Province ;
it ha I fought its own battle and succeeded, and he could not
but rejoice at it. When he saw Mr. Mackenzie and the
people with him, after being fairly defeated, still remaining in
arms, with no object in view but to rob the city of Toronto,
lie did not feel any commisseration for whatever might befal
them. Although no man was more averse to the shedding
of blood than he was, yet, when he saw a body of madmen,
whose only object was to plunder and disturb the fine province
of Upper Canada, he thought they deserved the utmost
rigour.—( Hear.) He was not sure that the calling together
of the proposed deputation would be the wisest method
of arranging the colonial Constitution. Ho foresaw many
circumstances which rendered imprudent the bringing to-
gether of such an assembly ; after what had passed it might
be possible, but he did not see clearly now how it could be
done. He did not think this preamble necessary, although in
expressing his dissent he was involved in agreat difficulty.
He might be accused of supporting arbitrary measures with-
out permitting any modification, but still he did not think that
Lord Durham should be trammeled in anycoursehe
might
think expedient. The Hon. Baronet had another amend-
ment respecting the power given to the Queen in Council,
but he ( Mr. Ellice) would not set a bad example by now
going into that question. He thought as his Noble Friend
was to be so deeply responsible he should be left to his own
judgment. He ( Mr. Ellice) wished, in conclusion, to say one
word on the much-agitated question of the tenures of land.
The Canada Tenures Act had been passed at his suggestion,
and the Canadian Attorney-General was in England at the
time to give any suggestion he might think fit. He ( Mr. Ellice)
approved of that Bill, but he did not intend it to be compul-
sory. He did not wish to force on the people of Canada
any other tenure than that which they preferred themselves.
He admitted that one of the incidents of the Tenure Act,
namely, the law of primogeniture, was not in accordance with
the habits of the Canadian people ; and in every effort made
to strengthen our connection with them care should be taken
'that all legislation with respect to property should be in the
plainest system, as was the practice in the neighbouring States.
The question was not, as some would have it, whether keep-
ing the Canadas was or was not an expense, but to endeavour
to adjust fairly between the parties there. It was not to hold
dominion ; but, if separation became necessary, to assist them
in making the experiment of self-government. The people
of Canada possessed great advantages. They had no local
taxation, and were in that respect better off than their neigh-
bours, though so much had been said of the cheapness of Re-
publican institutions. He expected much from the mission of
Lord Durham; and when he asked of Ministers to re-consider
the preamble if he thought it would interfere with the prin-
ciple of the Bill he would not make the suggestion, nor did
he believe that the Noble Lord (Lord .1. Russell) would ac-
cede to it.
Lord JOHN RUS SE L L—l must say at the commence-
ment of my observations, in consequence of some ironical
cheers which came from Gentlemen opposite, that I think the
House is greatly indebted to my Right Hon. Friend for stat-
ing his sentiments on this occasion—( Hear)—and I must also
confirm the statement which he made, that until I entered the
House this evening I was perfectly ignorant of his intention of
speaking. I have listened with great attention and also with
great instruction, as I always do, to my Right Honourable
Friend, whenever I have occasion to hear him, either in pub-
lic or private, and whether upon the affairs of Canada or
any other topic ; but still I must say that there are some
points connected with the present question upon which It do
riot exactly agree with him, and upon which, after what he
has said, I feel it incumbent upon me to address a few brief
bservations. In the first place I must refer to past transac-
tions, My Right Honourable Friend, in alluding to this
struggle, seems to be of opinion—an opinion, certainly, which
1 have heard him express before—that an error was com-
mitted in giving up the revenues which, by the Act of 1774,
belonged to the Crown, and that that ought to have been
the point upon which the resistance should hove been made
to the demands of the Assembly. Now, I certainly am not
so far responsible for the Act of 1831 that I was not at that
time a Member of the Cabinet; but I must say that, viewing,
as I am obliged to do, the events which have occurred in Ca-
nada during the last few years, my opinion certainly is that
Lord Ripon was justified in proposing the repeal of the Act of
1774, and not entering into a contest with the Assembly on
that point. The Act of 1774 enforced certain duties. It
applied those duties levied in Canada to the Civil Govern-
ment of the province, to be appropriated to that purfose by
the Lords of the Treasury ; but it also directed that if there
were any residue, that residue should be at the disposition of
Parliament. Now, the claim of the House of Assembly
was this :—it was not a claim, as I imagine—and I speak
now according to the opinion of the Learned Gentlemen
who were consulted at the time—it was not a claim which
they could place upon the strict grounds of law ; but it was
a claim which they could place upon the ground of the
Constitution. They said, " According to the Acts of
1778 and 1701'you left to the Representatives of the people
in the Provincial Legislature the appropriation of the supplies,
and you ought not, by a new law, to make an exception to the
general rule—a rule that, according to the Constitution,
ought to apply to all duties levied upon us." Let it be recol-
lected that it was upon this question, and mainly upon this
question, that the quarrel happened between England and
the United States.---( Hear.) The United States of America
America.
expressly denied this right which was asserted by the
Britain,
by Parlia-
mentof Great Britain. The Parliament of Great Britain
by the Act of 1778, expressly and in terms renounced
this
right over any of her colonies having Representative
Consti-
tutions of their own. To have quarrelled with Canada upon
that round, therefore, would have been to awaken a sympathy
for the people of that province not only in the British colonies
but in the United States of America, because in every State,
both ancient and modern, that privilege is the most dearly
prized ; that privilege is considered the most important of all,
which the people look back upon as that upon which their
liberties and independence were first feundeci.—( Hear. )
Of course, when ,my Right Hon. Friend said that in this
manner the Government might have been maintained, he
Can hardly mean, surely he does not mean, that we should
then have bad the means of carrying on the Governmeut in-
dependent of the Assembly, or, as would necessarily be the
case, against the whole of the Assembly. lam sure that that
is not the meaning of my Right lion. Friend. Yet by follow-
ing the course which he says he should be disposed to recom-
mend weshould have called the Assembly together, we should
have made a breach with that body, and upon a point which
would not have been made very intelligible to the people of
this country, who would have argued in favour of the principles
of the British Constitution as applicable to Canada. The
breach, too, would have been upon a point on which the most
sensative feeling existed in America. But I will enter no fur-
ther into matters that relate to the pest. My Rtlit lion.
Friend recommends to me a most serious consideration of the
preamble of the Bill. Now I will fairly state to the House,
without entering into any particular argument with respect to,
the preamble, what is the general view which I take upon the
subject. I consider that in undertaking a settlement of the.
affairs of Canada Government has a most important, a most,
difficult, and a most responsible duty to perform. It requires
nothing l ss than the agreement of Parliament in the ge-
neral line of policy proposed to be pursued to make it tithe:
"tillable in the Government to undertake the settlement, or