The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-05 00:00:00

HULL.

The.Committeemet at eleven o'clock, and Mr. MESMER resumed his
argument upon the objection of Mr. Austin, which was interrupted by
the adjournment of the Committee yesterday.
A short time after three o'clock, Counsel and Agents were called In,
and the Chairman said the opinion of the Committee was, that the objec-
tion taken by the Counsel for the petitioners to the lists of objections on
the part of the sitting Members was a valid objection.

This decision would prevent the Counsel for the sitting Members from
questioning any of the votes given for the petitioners.

Mr. HILLYARD then begged the indulgence of the Committee for a
few minutes until his learned leader, Mr. Thesiger, could attend the
Committee.

Mr. THICSIGER shortly afterwards arrived, and with great emphasis
and animation pronounced the decision which the Committee had just
come to, as most cruelly unjust, oppressive, and without parallel.
The CHAIRMAN here rose and said hircoulcl not allow such language to
be address'ed by any Counsel to the Committee.
Mr. TFIROGER said h^ would repeat every word he had uttered ; and
he begged further to state that since he had left the Committee_
room he hasl found that the petitioners were not i.O a majority,
but that the sitting Members and the petitioners were equal
on the poll. it had been also discovered that the lists of ob-
jections on the • part of the petitioners were open to the same
objection for irregul:rity as those of the sitting Members. One of the
petitioners was Geor,,e Binks, the younger. Now the words " the
younger" were omitted. He therefore defied the Committee upon their
own decision to proceed further.

Mr. Hitt said that his Learned Friend, Mr. Thesiger, was himself
the individual who made the declaration that the petitioners were in a
majority. However; he should call upon the Committee to strike off
another vote from the votes of the sitting Members.
Mr. THESIGER would not consent to any thing of the kind. The
Committee must be bound by the decision they had come to, and they
ought to administer equal' and impartial justice, as they had sworn to do.
A most animated and rather violent discussion here took place, and
strangers were again Kdered to withdraw.
On strangers being re-admitted,

Tito CHAIRMAN said that as the Learned. Counsel, Mr. Thessiger's
address, would no doubt take sometime, the Committee had determined
upon then adjourning, and would hear Mr. Thessiger to-morrow.
The Committee then adjourned at a.Quarter before Four o'clock until
tomorrow.

'The Committee.room•durirg the above discussion was crowded nearly
to guffbcation.

,IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS, linter 4.

The fl•TI of SHAFfESB.URY took his seat on the Wooksack, as
Deputy-hiieAt at live o'clxlr, whop the bi:la on the table were
forwarded a starer':
A nurnher r>s I"rieate ;lilts were brotiAt up from the Commons.
Palters were preerited from the Commissioners of Margwie Harbour.
Lord RlitliltiDA LE presented several petitions from Witney and
other places, pr..ving that nolnftterial alteration be made In the Poor-
laws. Ti.l done mueb to elevate the position of the labourers.
he Aflsrrtuia of LONDONDE.RitY presented a petition from the
county of Lt,,,loriderry, against the prescnt'system of national education
in Irelintil..-nd playing that the Scriptures may be introduced and
taught in cr .'ational s7hriols ; also one to the sam,., elect from the
county ..flowit..rie begged to know what the Government were going to
do forthose•yxrwho had returned from Sp.iin. He understood
their claims 'sere now to the armitint of 300,0001., anti he was informed
that the SiAnish Ambri,acwr refused to give any ansaer to applications
made to 1 ho. He hoped that the Goverment would come to some ar-
rangement with the Ambassador, so that tiiese claims mi,iht be
Jett led

Yard M7If.BOURNE ;aid the Government were not only bound,
but were very anxious to do all in their power to obtaid a
settlement (1 the se claims, and they would still do all in their
`power to Lying about a speedy sett:erntnit.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said nothing, could be mere sati.-
fjeto,:v thou the answer of th e Notde Lord. and he hoped the Government
woukj string enough to enforce the just claims of English subjects,
Lord 7,l..''l,3oURNri; presented numerous petitions from Dumfries,
Aberdeen, ether plarcs,agail:st any further ,ndowment to the Scotch
Church ; from Loik, and other pieces, with resp,•et to Irish tithes; from
Glasgow, ;;,,ying ti,t the Muricipal Bounctaria,s might be made the
same as the Parliamenth.7 ; in favour of' Mr. Hill's p7aa of P.st.nfCce
Reform, and numerous vet,.!ions praying for the abolition of Negro Ap-
prenticesl:ip.

Earl Si. VINCENT pretenteti a letitlon praying for Post-office
Reform and for the abotitlon of Negro Aperentieeship.
The Earl of WICKLOW presented petitions from various places in
Ireland against any relief beieg granted to able tidied paupers. Also
„one from the comity of Wicklow, agreed to at a public meeting, against
the Irish leeir-latv Bill.
Mar:luis of LANSDOI.VNE. had also petitions to present from
Crane, Jur:eti in various emirates In Ireland with a similar prayer.
The I:.rquis of CLANRIC AitDE coot( mite! that this workhoutt,
system fox able bodied peepers was the principle of the Bill, and these
petitions were against it.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY agreed in what ?ad fallen from
the Noble Lord who spoke last, and lie was astonished that the Govern-
ment should on this subject go against the opinion of Mr. O'Connell,
and yet take his advice on every other matter connected with his unror-
tunate country. The principle of the Bill wee most fallacious, and
would prove a curse to the country. He would mort unquestionably
take the sense of the House upon the second reeding of the Bill, and he
trusted Noble Lords connected with Ireland would assist him on the
occasion.
The petitions, which were from the Grand Juries of Westmeath and
King's County, were then read by the Clerk.
The Ear! of FALMOUTH presented petitions from Truro, praying
for Post-office Reform.
71.. e Bishop of DERRY presented two petitions from parishes in the
diocese' of Derry',, in favour of the principle of the Irish Poor Law Bill,
but agaii Ist many of its clauses.
The Ea. 1 of WINCIIILSEA gave notice, that on Monday next he
would dote, for a copy °l' the correspondence that parsed between the
Secretary of t:ie Home Depaetment and the Lord Lieutenant of Hertford.
shire relative to the reduction of the yeomanry cavalry.
The Earl of YARBOttOtaill a.ed the Marquis of SLIGO presented
numerous petitions, praying for tt.e immediate abolition of the system
of Negro Apprenticeship.
On the motion of Lord WHARNCLIFFE a message was ordered to
be sent to the House of Commons, requesting that General Johnstone
might have leave to give evidence before the Lords Committee on the
Poor Law Bill.
Earl STA N HOPE presented several petitions from places in the
manufacturing, districts, praying for the immediate repeal of the Poor-
:law Amendment Bill.
The Marquis of I;LANRICARDE presented several petitions for the
abolition of Negro ‘pprenticeship.
Similar petitions we're presented by Lord DENMAN and the Earl of
rUiILINGTON.
The Marquis of LANS.')OWNE moved the committal of the cus-
tody of Insane Persons (Irehend)
The Earl of WICKLOW .faked the Noble Marquis to postpone
the further proceedings on the 8111 for .1 few days, as he objected to the
power given to Magistrates under the BM, and wished to hear what was
thought of it in Ireland.
The Marquis of LA NSDOWNEagreed, and the order wag discharged.
Lord LORTON called the attention of their, ,Lordships to some let-
ters which had lately appeared, signed John, ArchLishop of Tuarn, con-
trary to the Catholic Relief Bill. He begged to know vi hether the Govern-
ment intended to institute any proceedings for the vindication of the law ?
Viscount ATELEOLTRNE said, for various reasons, which he would
not then particularise, but in which he perfectly agreed, the Govern-
ment in Irele.nd did not intend that any prosecution should
be entered into ag linst the individual alluded to, for the purpose of re.
covering the penalties imposed by the Act of Parliament quoted by the
Noble Earl.

Lord WICKLOW said he considered the answer of the Govern-
ment moat discreditable.—(l,oud Opposition cheering.) The Mi-
nisters of the Crown seetned afraid to execute the law ; nay, they
afforded their sanction to the breaches of the law.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said he was of opinion that the
answer of his Noble Friend at the head of ti:ie Administration was the
best possible which could have been given. .If the question as to the
interference of the Irish Government was to be ca; led into question, let
it be done by a distinct motion or notice.—(Hear,) Nothing would so
,much gratify Dr. M`Hale as being proceeded against tt. recover penalties
--it would be also of great pecuniary advantage to that ; he,
therefore, contended that the Government had exercised a wise dis-
cretion in not instituting any prosecution. The Noble Lord opposite
evidemtly asked the question either to gratify his own curiosity, or /by
some way purpose.—(dear.)

Lord ,LORTON denied that he had any curiosity to gratify, and he
wished the Noble Marquis was as free fiom party bias at that moment as
he was.—(l-lear.) If, however, the House thought he ought to give a
notice, he would withdraw the quesZion, and give notice of a motion on
the subject some day next week. He considered it too important not to
be inquired into ; perhaps if no notice, was taken of it, next Sessions
there might be two " Johns of Tuam," .claiming seal s in their Lord-
ships' House.—(Hear, hear.) The House, he felt contici;nt, would see
the necessity of inquiring Into the subject.

The Earl of WINCHILSEA severely reprOated Government for
not having taken any notice of the letters in questien.
Lord MELBOURNE complained of the conduct of the Nobi,e Earl
(Wicklow) in making certain remarks which had fallen from him. Tt;ere
were some questions which it was not for the convenience of the public
Lbusiness that they should be answered; and there were others which,
tl lough answered, ought not to be followed up by general discussions,
En t what he (Lord Melbourne) chiefly complained of was, that the
Nob le Earl should have represented Ministers as having indirectly en-
coura. cted a violation of the laws. He was sure their Lordships would

concur with him (Lor Melbourne) when he said that a prosecution
would nCt have been a or a prudent course.
The Earl of NVICKLO‘V contended that the Noble Viscount had
virtually admitted that the Act had been violated, and that Ministers
had indirectly sanctioned a viola' ion of an Act of Parliament.

The Duke -.1" WELLINGTON ;aid that it certainly was inconvenient

to get up general discussions on the me.-e asking of a question. He
thought' that before Noble Lords entered 0,1 the discussion of any ques-
tion, they ought to make themselves acquainted with all the facts bear-
ing on it. He mutt say that his Noble Frienc: (the Earl of Wicklow)
lout put a construction (111 the language used by the Noble Viscount
which he thought it did not fairly admit of. Whet:ier the Act of Par-
liamevit had been violated or not, was a question for .the breasts of the

law olilcers of the Crown. It was clear that if there w,:s to he any pro-
secution; it must be a Government prosecution ; and he (the Duke of
Wellington) must say that he could not find fault with the Nots:e
'count for not f:ommencing a prosecution until it was ascertiained "The-
Ither such evidenr.e and proofs could be adduced as would be to
Lead to a conviction.—(Hear, hear.) He, therefore, did not see kny
gswd reason to be dissaCsfled with what had fallen from the N.otole
Viscount.

The Earl or WICKLOW explaioed.
Lord 31ELY:0111tNr; again repeated that her Majesty's Government
41d not think it would he prudent, under all the circumstances of the
ease, to have instituted a prosecution.
Their Lordships then :iiipaerrn•