The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-09 00:00:00

STEAM NAVIGATION.

Lord G. SOMERSET wished to know whether it wal
the intention of Government to persevere in the plan of
taxing steam navigation ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was not.

Hon. Member for Preston recollect, that it was owitsg to
the skill and industry of these gentlemen that inventions
had been made in mechanics, by which the interests of
the weavers themselves had been prousoted.—(Cheers.)
Had the Hon. Member never beard of Professor Farish,
than whom no man was better qualified to explain the
principles of mechanical science, in the true understand-
ing of which the weavers of Preston weresleeplyinterested ?
—(Loud cheering.)
Mr. HUNT wished to know whether this was speaking
to order? While he was speaking, he was interrupted by.
an Hon. Member rising to order, and the Noble Lord con.:
tinued the interruption under the same pretence. When
he was interrupted he was about to say, that he bad pre-
sented a petition, signed by 19,000 mechanics, complain-
ing that they possesssed no share in the representation.—
(General coughing and cries of " Question.") Was it fair
and just, then, to take money out of the pockets of these
men for the purpose of paying professors at Oxford ?
(Loud cries of " Question.") He gave notice, that when
the Reform Bill went into Committee, and the clause,
giving the right of voting to the owners of houses rated at
101. came under consideration.—(Question, question.)
Mr. RICE rose to order. Ile put it to the Hon.
Member whether it was right to interrupt the considera-
tion of the present vote by a discussion on the Reform
Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUNT, if not allowed to be heard, would sit down
and say no ! to the resolution, and divide the House.
Mr. GOULBURN said, that all that was taken from
the weavers for the professors was the smallest conceivable
fraction of value; hut if it were even ten times greater,
more than ten times the benefit would he returned to them.
—(Hear, hear.) He only wished there was an opportu-
nity of submitting this vote to the poor themselves; and
be was sore that they would agree to it.—(Cheers.)
Sir R. INGLIS thought it very unfair for one Member
of that House to assume to himself a peculiar regard fer
the poor, (Cheers.) When he heard an Han. Member
arrogate to himself all sympathy for the poor, and denied
the least portion of it to any one else, he might, pertly.,
be excused if he had expressed his dissent in a manner,
which perhaps, upon consideration, be should not have
adopted.—(Cheers.) But it was really unbearable to hear
the lion. Member aeaume to himself all feeling to the
poorer classee.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. LABOIJCHERE was not favourable to the grant.
He thought that there watiLi still he prokesors, if the grant
were discontinued. He, however, would not support the
Hon. Member for Preston, if he divided the House.
Mr. HUNT solemnly declared, that when he was put
down by coughing upon a question of this sort, the only
way left him to ea.:prase his opinion was by hie vote. He
would, therefore, always divide the House when he was so
treated.
After a few words from Mr. VERNON, which were not
heard,
Mr. BRISCOE concurred in the propriety of the pre-
sent grant ; end he thought that some allowance should
be made to the professors of the two universities which
were now established in the metropolis
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER advocated
the propriety of the grant.
Mr. MABERLY was of opinion that the grant should
he discontinued. If not, it would be impossible to refuse
similar grants to the Scotch Universities, and other insti-
tutions for the diffusion of education,
Mr. HUME retreated his objection to the vote, but said
that he did not think it expedient to divide the Committee
on the question.
Mr. CARTER observed, that the HO3. Members who
opposed the grant, appeared to overlook the fact that there
were many poor scholars who benefited gratuitously by the
lecture.: delivered by the professors at the universities,
whilst others paid for attending them,
Sir T. FRENIANTLE said that the Universities pos-
sessed ample funds for the payment of all their professors,
and that if the House should refuse the grant, means would
still be found for providing fur the professors.
Mr. WARBURTON said, that before the Committee
agreed to this vote, they shenld be satisfied that the funds
which the Universities possessed were insufficient to pro-
vide for the support of the professors,—a circumstance
which he could not believe, because he had known the
University of Cambridge vote large sums of money in aid
of the Bible Society, for the erection of a statue to Mr.
Pitt, and for other purposes.
Colonal SIBTHORBE approved of the vote.
Mr. WILKS addressed the Committee, but was rendered
inaudible by loud and continued coughing.
Mr. HUNT, amidst loud cries of " Question," in return
for the courtesy with which he had been treated, was de
termined that a division should take place.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared,
For the grant
-• 2(4)
Against it 15
188
Majoiity

On the grant of 2,1)001. being proposed for the Alien

Office,
Mr. HUME objected to it, because it was a sum de-
voted to a system which was purely continental,—a system
of espiorinage. —Motion agreed to.
The next vote proposed was for the sum of 8,865/. to
defray the expense of the Penitentiary at Milbank.
Mr. HUME opposed the expenditure of a large sum of
money on such an object. The country was paying 321 or
231. a-year for supporting convicts, whilst honest and indus-
trious people were not able to procure a livelihood. The
experiment tried by the institution of the Penitentiary
had failed, and therefore it ought to be abandoned alto-
gether.
Sir T. FREEMANTLE contended, that the experi-
ment had not failed : much good had been produced by
the establishment.
After a conversation, in which Mr. Briscoe, Captain
Harris, Mr. Sadler, Alderman Waithman, Mr. S. Rice,
Mr. Hunt, Sir M. W. Ridley, and Alderman Wood took
part, the motion was agreed to.
On the motion that the sum of 11,2691. should be
granted to defray the expences of the Office of Works,
Mr. R. COLBORNE requested to know, from the
Noble Lord opposite (Lord Duncannon), whether any in-
quiry had been made into his (Mr. Colborne's) represen-
tation with respect to the state of the national gallery in
Pall Mall ? If inquiry had been made, he believed it most
have been found that his statement was correct, and that
the building was in a state of dilapidation. The collection
of pictures bequeathed to the country by the Rev. Holwell
Carr, were bequeathed with the express understanding
that some proper building should be built or selected for
their reception. He wished to know whether it was in-
tended to devote a building, or to erect one at a light ex-
pense, for that purpose?
Lord DUNCANNON said, it was clear that the pic-
tures could not long remain where they were, as one-half
of the building must soon be taken down to make room for
Carlton-terrace. With respect to the Mews, which had
been spoken of as a proper site for a gallery, part of it
stood in such a position with reference to the street which
was to run near St, Martin's Church, that it must come
down. Perhaps something might be done with the re-
mainder of the building to meet the wishes of the Hon.

Member.
Mr. R. GORDON hoped that, with reference either to
the alteration or to the erecting of public buildings, all
extravagant expenses would be avoided.
Mr. W. WYNN hoped that no expense whatever would
be incurred without the express sanction and authority of
Government.
Mr. S. RICE assured his Right Hon. Friend that no-
thing should be, or indeed could be, expended, without the
sanction of the proper authorities.
Sir G. WARRENDER hoped that the country had not
come to that pass that it was unable to erect a national
gallery for pictures. He hoped, with due and proper en-
ecuragement, to see as fine a collection of pictures in this
country :a rivap to be found in any part of the world.
Mr. PROTHEROE ez.pr,rssed his belief that the lights
in the King's-mews were so disp;s2d as to render the
place unfit for a picture gallery.
After a few words from Mr. Hughes Hughes, Sir M.
W. Ridley, Mr. Alderman Wood, and Mr. S. Rice, the
vote was agreed to.
The following resolutions were then agreed to :-
1,070/. for the deficiency of the fee fund in the office of
the register of colonies slaves in Great Britain.
2,200/. for the expenses of the State Paper Office.
Before the next resolution, for a vote for retired allow-
ances, was mad from the chair,
Mr. G. DAWSON rose to bring before the Committee
the case of Sir Abrahatn Bradley King, and to propose an
addition to the vote, in order to cover a catnpens,ation for
the loss of his office.
Mr. HUME suggested that it was too late an hour
(twelve o'clock) to bring on such a discussion.
Mr. DAWSON said he was ready to postpone it, if it
was the pleasure of the House, but he had given notice of
the motion.

After some desultory discussion between Mr. R. Goa-
DON, Mr. DAWSON, Mr. S. RICE, and Lord ALTHOBS,
the vote was withdrawn, with the understanding that it
was to be the first to be taken at the next sitting of the
Committee.
Mr. S. RICE, in moving a vote of 15,920/. for the
relief of the Toulouse and Corsican emigrants, American
loyalists, Btc., observed, that the Committee would find
that there was a snore economical arrangement in this
estimate than in former times, when there had been a
careless expenditure. In one instance where the sum was
2,1001, there had been 7001, a year for making the pity-

'menu ; and in another where the expenditure was 9,000/.
it cost 900/. a year for the same thing. Now these
allowances were reduced, and in one instance stopped.
Mr. GORDON wished for some explanation of this

Mr. GOULBURN said that the incumbents bad been
expected to die off. He acknowledged that there needed
some alteration.

2,500/. was then voted for the expenses of the Na.
tional Vaccine Establishment.

3,0001. for the support of the institution called the
Refuge for the Destitute ; and

3,039/. for confining and maintaining persons convicted
of offences who were lunatics.
On a vote being proposed of 5,612/. for Protestant
Dissenting Ministers, French Refugee Ministers, and others,
Mr. HUME expressed his surprise that although in
former years there had always been some deaths amongst
the French refugees, under the new Administration there
appeared to have been no deaths. He begged to remark
also, that this grant had been continued since the edict
of Nantes, so that souse of these refugees must have lived
since that period.—(A laugh.)
Mr. S. RICE said, that his Hon. Friend had misun-
derstood the case. The laity die (and he would find there
was a reduction there); the clergy do not die. On con-
sulting the trustees of this grant, who comprehended
great personages, a doubt had been suggested whether the
sum was not origina:ly a grant for a commutation of
certain subscriptions, raised for the support of the clergy.
If, upon inquiry, that should prove correct, the grant must
subsist ; if net, it might be, by degrees, reduced.
The vote was agreed to.
The House then resumed.—Report on Monday.
Mr. S. WORTLEY postponed till Wednesday next his
motion, that, in the present Parliament, the orders of the
day should on Wednesdays have precedence of motions.