The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-08 00:00:00

He would pass over the history of those laws durirg the
reigr:s of the Stuarts, merely stati g that their etlcct,
after a few years' trial, being found most disadvanta-
geous, considerable modifications were made, and on the
accession of William 111. the trade and commerce of the
country were in a very flourishing condition. lie:would
next go on to the period when at theend of the American
war Mr. Pitt came into office—a name to which he
never alluded but with the greatest respect, and for
which many in that House professed an almost super-
stitious reverence. Mr. Pitt immediately on coming
into office, persualed of the importance in the then state
of things of introducing some relaxation of the naviga-
tion-laws, introduced a measure for that purpose. That
was at a moment when beyond any other in the history
of England, the importance of the navy to the security
of the country had been proved, and at the close of a
war in which the tarnished laurels in the unfortunate
war which had taken place, by land, in America, had
been in a great degree redeemed .by the glory of those
successes which from the victory of Rodney, in the West
Indies, to the relief of Gibralt:ir by Howe, in the Mediter-
ranean, had established the naval supremacy of this
country. and rescued her honour, enabling her to obtain
n satisfactory peace. Was that a moment when any
wise and prudent Minister would think of laying his
hands on a sacred ark, as some considered the naviga-
_

tion-laws,in which the security of the navy, and can-
sequently of the cLaatry, consisted ? Nevertheless,
Pitt at once saw the necessity of opening the colonial
trade, and introduced a measure for that purpose, but
which his retirement from office prevented him from
carrying, although this principle had from time to time
been acted on by acts of authority on the part of succes-
sive Ministries.—(Hear, bear.) He next came to a time
within his own recollection. In 1807 he brought into
the other House a measure for establishing free inter-
course between the West Indian and American colonies
and the mother country. That measure was oppos( dby
Sir W. Grant, on the ground that it would afftct the
navy and mercantile marine of this country. He further
stated, that such would be the inducement afforded to
American vessels for going to the West Indian islands,
and engaging in the trade of them, that it was doubt-
ful whether any sugar would be imported to this
country. Now, remembering those allegations, and the
powerful eloquence with which they were enforced, he
had the curiosity to ascertain what the effect of that
measure had been which was denounced as having so
destructive a tendency. He bad Mimi the year in which
the measure passed doyen to the conclusion of the war,
and he found, that while in the year 1807, the year in
which that Bill was passed, the general tonnage of Bri-
tish ships was two millions and ninety-six thousand tons,
at the conclusion of the war that tonnage had increased
to 2.247,000 tons.

The Duke of RICHMOND—That included ships of
war as well as merchant ships.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—He would then turn
to the system with which they had now to deal, and look
at the altered shape which the navigation-laws have
taken, if shape it could be called, which shape had none
distinguishable. And on that part of the subject he had
to state, that instead of the commerce of this country
being girt about, as some would insinuate, with a coat
of impenetrable armour, it was clothed with a gar-
ment of shreds and patches, a system the most com-
plicated that ever was put on the statute book in the
shape of an enactment.—(Hear, hear.) Under
what protection was it, he would ask, that they now
existed ? The fact was few were aware, and it would
perhaps not a little surprise their Lordships when he
told them that several most respectable witnesses engaged
shipping and commerce, called before a Committee of
their Lordships' House to give evidence in favour of the
navigation-laws, avowed that, until they were called
upon to consider the subject, they had no idea that there
was so little protection as there was.—(Hear, hear.)
But when the subject was locked into, the absence of all
that protection soon became apparent. They had, for
instance, various treaties concluded, such as the United
States, Mexico, Buenos .Ayres, Venezuela, Russia,
Austria, the Netherlands, Prussia, Denmark, Sweden,
Holland, Portugal, Naples, Turkey, Oldenburg'',
Greece, and every one of these had been entered
into independent of the navigation-laws. They
were not alt framed on the same principles ;
on the contrary, they exhibited the greatest va-
riety of opinions and ideas. Some of them were
terminable, others interminable. They contained diffe-
rent catalogues of charges, and ditlerent conditions
as to the engagement of ves-els for foreign voyager,
and taken as a whole, compris d a mass of contusion,
d.fficulty, and inconvenience, which made it not at all
surprising that those having the deepest interest in
them, found it impossible to discover under what law
or what protection they were acting. That, therefore,
had had the effect of suspending, in many instance?, the
operation of the navigation-laws, and the general result
of that had been, that year by year the amount and.
value of British hipping end trade bad been progres-
sively inereasieg.--(llear, hear, from the Opposition.)
He found tint, while in 1816 the tennage of British
shipping was 2,783,000 tons, in 1848 it had risen to up-
wards of five millions of tone. No doubt it would be
said that during that time the commercial prosperity
and power of other nations had also increased, and that
he viewed as one of the best aspects of the times, for
it showed how one nation benefited by coming in
contact with others, and how the whole flourished
by a system of commercial enterprize. But it was
also sell that the British shipowner and merchant
was not in a condition to compete with fureign coun-
tries without a large amount of protection being afforded
him. Now, in answer to that, he would call the atten-
tion of their Lordships to the manner in which the Bri-

tish shipowner and merchant prospered in the very
voyages and countries in which they were most exposed
to that competition. 11e had before him the proportion
of English and American tonnage, and, as it aas said
that one effect of the present measure would be to enable
the United States to beat the shipping of this country
out of the market, he would estate that proportion to the
House. For a great many years past, in the direct
voyages between this country and the United States, the
English shipowner had gone totally unprotected. Now,
what was the issue of the contest between him and the
American in that resrect? In 1836 the tonnage of
English ships engaged in direct trade with America, and
in competition with American ships, was 544,000 tons,
and the American tonnage was 1,255,000, while in 1848
the English tonnage had risen to 1,177,000 tons, and the
Amer:cm to 2,393,000 tons, thereby showing not only
that the English shipping had maintained itself, but that
it had increased iu a greater proportion during the time
stated then had the American tonnage. And to show the
prepsrtion of British and foreign tonnage employed in
the trade with the United States, he had to state that
while the British tonnage in that trade was 1,177,000
tons, that of all other nations only amounted to 228,000
tons, so that the British tonnage was six or seven times
the amount of that of all other nations so employed.
Within the last few days he had received a letter from a
very extensive shipowner on the subject, who stated, as
the result of his experience, that his ships never got so
good freights, and were never so successful, as when
they sailed between two foreign ports.—(Hear, hear.)
And that being what the present measure was intended
to render more common and extensive, no one could say
that its passing would deteriorate the interest of thb
shipowner. He would now turn to the Baltic; but would
first allude to the trade carried on by the British ship-
ping with Hamburgh. The trade carried on by British
shipping there exceeded the amount of the trade of
Hamburgh itself, and had exceeded that carried on by
shipping of all other nations. The tonnage of British
shipping which sail from that port was 291,000, while
the tonnage of all other nations was only 265,000 tuns.
Then if they went to Russia and the Baltic, where it was
said competition would be more severe than any% here
else, as ships could be built there so cheap that the
English shipowner had no chance with such competitors;
there timber was cheap, and the greatest facility
afforded for ship-building; but, notwithstanding that he
found that while there had sailed from the port of St.
Petersburgh 228,000 tons of British shipping, the ton-
nage of Prussian and other foreign vessels trading there
only amounted to 221,000 tons, so that in the very heart
of that country, where timber was cheap and where com-
petition the most materially be feared, the British mer-
chant had maintained so decided an advantage and supe-
riority as might make him careless about future
competition. But it might be said, if the present system
works thus well, why introduce a change at the present
time ? It must, however, be borne in mind, that although
this country might be at present master of shipbuilding,
it might not always remain so, and that there were be-
sides many other considerations to be taken into account,
which made it evident that unless a change was
made in time, the duties now to be altered would have
to be so when it would, perhaps, be more difficult and
dangerous to do it. There were besides from 220,000 to
230,000 tons of English shipping engaged in indirect
trade with countries, the treaties between which and this
country were about to expire, and which, were they not
secured, all that amount of shipping would be thrown out
of employment.—(Hear.) On the other hand, they
would find that great disadvantages were occurring in
regard to this country, in its trade with countries who
had no such prohibitory duties as this country had. For
instance, most of the British vessels trading to French
ports bad to leave those parts in ballast, and consequently
iecurred greet loss to the owners. The colonies also
called on them to pass such a measure as the present. The
West Indian colonies were subjected to great difficulty
in consequence of the navigation-laws, and Canada told
them that the entire trade of the St. Lawrence depended
upon their abrogation. In consequence of the opening
of canals and other means of transit, the trade of
Canada had been diverted through the United States,
which had endeavoured to draw its trade away from it,
and the only remedy for that would be the opening of
the St. Lawrence—and if that was not done, could they
imagine that the people of Canada would remain quiet?
It they expected the co-operation of Canada, they were
bound to give full means of development to all her re-
sources. He believed that monopoly was not the way
to insure prosperity. The experience they had already
had in that respect in thee
his
Theytoryol d seen nd
the world
them a great and serious lesson.
roused to be established in Europe the
They had greatest
heard Bonaparte
mono-
polies that ever existed.
avowing his object vies to obtain ships, colonies, and
commerce, in order that he might. establishsuchamo
mo-
nopoly as would swallow up British commerce
altoge-
ther, but they had seen him fail ine aelelutionseotpareogjuscirtes:
Ships he could not
get, colonies h
and commerce ho could not accelerate; and that was be-
cause the character and enterprise of British commerce
were such, that when once it gained a looting it pro-
greased on to tho establishment of trade on a basis
which was not easily to be disturbed. or an-
nihilated. He would, thereft bre, advice their
Bill, an
Lordships to pass the second reading of the
e c asfident that if they did not do so the position
their trade coccr,,eo would occupy would b..
c')lldderably werse than at prest nt. in moving ebe
eonti rearli::g of the Bill, then, and uuderetanding that the
,Noble Lord opposite had resolved to run the fiat. of re-
jecting it, he would say, for himself and his colleagues,
that they were equally prepared to run the risk of its
being ittlopteti pad passed.—(Cheers.)

come

Lord BROUGHAM, in rising to address their Lord-
ships, was astonished to have heard of its being said, net
many hours ago, that he, who had all along been a sup-
porter of free trade, should now turn his back upon and
refuse to aid in putting the crown upon the last pillar of
its triumphs. Be gloried in the conquest referred to—
he gloried in having obtained that moral triumph of
what he believed to be the soundest principles of poli-
tical philosophy, and over the most groundless preju-
dices by which its progress was ever attemptel to be
obstructed. But if there were any one drop in that cup of
pride which was more sweet and palatable to him, it was
the recollection that the most eminent statesmen had
given up tleir prejudices against free trade, and had
j. fined him in carrying the repeal of the corn-laws. He
hoped that after the long voyage their Lordships had
among the dry details of statistics, and which it was
their fate to continue somewhat longer, though not
under the able and enlightened guidance of his Noble
Friend (the Marquis of Lansdowne), they would excuse
him if ho would resist the opportunity of enlivening the
subject, for one moment, by what long experience in
that deliberative assembly had proved to him to be more
interesting than any, however important, statistical
question.—(Hear, bear.) But he must first positively
deny the assertion that that was a question of free
trade, or that the navigation-laws had any sort of con-
nexion with it, for some of their Lordships considered
that this measure was a miserable fragment of free
trade. He would ask, who was the leader of the
great free-trede principle? Who was the eminent
apostle of that doctrine? Whose work was it that
constituted as it were the Scriptural volume of authority
for all free traders and all political economists of that
school ? Beyond all question, the great apostle of free
trade was Ac am Smith, the author of " The Wealth of
Nations." And yet Adam Smith declared that as opu-
lence was less important than defence, the navigation-
laws were the wisest of the commercial regulations of
England.—(Hear, hear.) Washington, the revered j
founder of the American constitution, and the father
of American freedom, signalised his entrance into office,
at the end of the American war, by a statement of the
absolute necessity of America's taking measures, by the
encouragement of the American and the discourage-
ment of foreign shipping, for securing a maritime
ascendancy in teeir own ports.—(llear, hear.) Again,
Maddisen, who on many questions differed from Wash-
ington, signalised his administration by the adoption of
that course of policy which the navigation-laws bad
sanctioned in tine country. His argument was, that
although such a policy might lead to some financial
loss, or to some cemtnercial restrictions, it was right
that the interests of the revenue and of commerce should
yield to the higher object of national security. He
(Lord Brougham) had also to state that it was the doc-
trine of Mr. Huillisson—whose opinions upon that sub-
ject had been so misunderstood—that where com-
merce and marine came into antagonism, com-
merce shou'd yield, as it was upon our marine that
the safety of the country mainly depended.—(Hear,
hear.) His Noble Ft iend had told them that it appeared
from " Pepys' Diary" that the navigation-laws had
been found to have failed fifteen years alter their enacts-
melte But it was not the navigation-laws that had led
at that period to the decline of our marine. The fact
was that Charles 11. had not maintained his navy in a
state cf efficiency from a want of the funds necessary for
that purpose, or from a want of a desire to devote the
funds at his disposal to the construction of ships or the
payment of able seamen. His Noble Friend, in the
course of his argument, had embarked in a sea of
figures ; but he (Lord Brougham) believed that his
Noble Friend could riot embark on a more dangerous
voyage than by launching out upon the great ocean of
statistics in the good ship " Board of Trade, G. R.
Porter, master."—(A laugh.) Indeed he feared that in
such a voyage the shipwreck of his Noble Friend was all
but inevitable. During the whole of his experience,
from the year 1808 to 1812, in 1817, in 1824, and 1842
—during all these different crises in commercial
affairs, he thought that nothing but evil ever arose
from any of cur statesmen founding their mercantile
policy on details of figures and statistical tables.
There was no proposition which might not be
proved by the statistical tables.—(Elear, hear.) It was
w ell known that these statistics were done by a process
of cooking.—(clear and laughter.) Tho Committee
which had sat on that question had sufficiently elicited
the process by which those tables were prepared. Yet
upon those his Noble Friend had relied in support of his
case. He had desired them to look to the state of Ame-
rican shipping. His Noble Friend had told them, on
the authority of those tables, that while our tonnage had
increased by such an amount, the American tonnage bad
only increased by such another amount. His Noble
Friend had said that all that was the consequence of pro-
tection. Now, it so happened that he (Lord Brougham)
had access to the same accounts to which his Noble
Friend hr d access, and what did he find was the case?
He had extracted from the report a few questions which
would throw some light on that matter. "It appears,"
said a member of the Committee, examining the wit-
ness who had prepared those statistical accounts—" it
appears, in pages 447-57, that you have taken the
whole of the British, and only part of the American
tonnage into your calculation," The witness admitted
as much. " Then," continued the examiner, " can any
degree of accuracy whatever he ascribed to that account,
as a fair statement of the comparative extent of British
and American tonnage?" "Certainly not," said the
witness.—(Laughter.) Suppose one asked his cook—
" Is what you have served up for dinner good food or
not?" and the cook answered, " Certainly not"—(Laugh-
ter)—would that be thought a very satisfactory meal to
sit down to?—(Hear and laughter.) The witness was
further asked, " Have you no means of remedying this
error, or of correcting this inaccuracy?" His reply was,
"I do not know that I have. I rather think I have, but
Lain not certain."—(Much laughter.) Such were the
statistics upon which his Noble Friend founded his case.
Now, with respect to the old system of the navigation-
laws, as laid down by Mr. Huskisson, they did not
object to,his proposition. The policy had been adopted
with the view of arranging the reciprocity system and
the differential duties, and prohibition had been en-
tirely
out of the question. Mr. Porter, Mr. Ri-
cardo, and all those who were for repealing the
navigation-laws, bad stated that it would be found the
protected trade had not increased near so much as the
unprotected trade. Yet it had been acknowledged that
so false a heading had never been put in a book as that
which professed to describe the " protected" and " un-
protected" trades. It should-have been protected and
less protected. All the following places should be in
a different class from that in which they appeared in
the tables in question. The Roman States, Tuscany,
Gibraltar, China, Java, the lonian Islands, and the South
Seas. That made a difference of no less than 350,000
tons in the account, which was nearly one-half of the
whole. Such returns, therefore, were not those upon
which they could safely legislate. It was another
part of the principle of the navigation-laws to keep as
much of the carrying trade in our own bands as we
could, and to keep other countries as much as possible
from it. It had been said that 215,000 tons of shipping
were now engaged in the carrying trade, which were
likely to be put out of it if that measure were not passed.
Now that was a fiction of the grossest—he was almost
going to say scandalous nature he had ever heard.—
(Hear.) Ile had never seen a more unfounded misre-
presentation. The calculations of tonnage had been taken
from the number of voyages which the ships made.
There had been 47 ships of about 7,G00 tons entirely,
and they having made 32 voyages on the year, the
abovementioned amount of tonnage had been set down
in the calculation.—(llcar, hear.) There was one ship
called the Magician, set down as at 14,200 tons, yet she
was only 96 tons burden, but she made 146 voyages on
the year, and that was the way in which her magical
amount of tonnage had been made out.—(Hcar, hear.)
Ile would leave it to those Hon. Members of the other
House of Parliament, who called upon their fancies for
their facts, and their memories for their jokes—(Laugh-
ter)— to reconcile such an amount of exaggeration as
that account showed.—(Hear, hole) Allusion had
been made to the Russian trade with this country. Now
there was no question relative to the navigation-laws
between this country and Russia. No goods could now
be exported from Russia, unless Russia had been the
entrspot for the same. One of the witnesses examined
had said with regard to the difference between Eng-
lish and Russian seamen, that one of the for-
mer would do the work of twelve of the
latter.—(Hear, hear.) Now he (Lord Broughom)
believed that to be an exaggeration. It had been said
that they were now dealing only with the remains or
fragments of the old navigation-laws. But he maintained
that these fragments were of a large or gigantic size,
and in dealing with them he conceived they should not
be dealt with in the contemptuous manner which the pro-
moters of the present measure treated them. Under the
remains of that system no less than 1,500,000 tons of
shipping were engaged—no less than 20,000 seamen
were employed—and a capital of near 5,000,0001. em-
barked.—(Hear, hear.) Yet it was said that the present
system could not be continued, chiefly on account of the
discontent of Canada. With respect to the trade by the
St. Lawrence with the United States, he contended
there was perfect freedom of trade between Canada and
the United States, and that either might export to the
other is their own shipping. What had induced Mr.
Pitt to make a change in the navigation-laws of his
time was the great changes which had taken place
in the West Indies, the colonies, and the South
American States, since the passing of the 12th of Charles
colonies,n
ksw
shouldi
Spanish
ar lned ,
haab and it
adapt
IL They had to be suited to the new condition of the
wghb
neee
asttdce
ostwaseusitdiro
nilobnasnewicaitanh:
moearettsthoiprinciple also that Mr. Hus-
ho,siaunAtdel3mlyrtraeezrnaiiecl;cate,Mhsescestmexrayiscaeosd:fhoaatlreo:
countries, and net as colonies. But even this had not
been done without great sacrifices. If Noble Lords
and for
gitnhege
extent
they
eyyn•
wet aeorefs
dbl,e3fifoonorde
vtlebBses2et2l
our
would look to our returns of seamen and•tonnege for
hadlssixo,
030.e0a fallenr
tse
neeff, following,
it
ee
theib
course of the six years after 1822, and that it did not
recover itself for sixteen years.—(Hear.) He rested this
assertion, not on returns made si ith reference to thin
particular question, but on the annual returns made from
1822 to 1838, before this subject was agitated. He should
now come to what he considered the gist of the ques-
tion, which ke could not help thinking his Noble Friend
opposite, conscious of the weal:nets of his case, had most
carefully avoided. The policy of the navigation-laws—a
policy continued by Mr. Huskisson through all, be
would not say the changes, but the alterations which he
proposed, was founded on the principle laid down by
Adam Smith, that the great object of every island
whose coasts were extensive compared with its inland
territory, ought to be to encourage by all reasonable
means the formation of a mercantite navy, as the foun-
dationimpossible of a military navy, H
on -ieheut the other. (Hear, bear.) His
;-„,1 „Ilea* etete, when he alluded to Bonaparte's
Nowe oteriss, and cortAnnee," bad taken a
5n ling e‘
speech thee any le uhiplication of
greater latitude o,
_moo
The fact was, that Bona-
figures by 150.—(A
breathed Worth a wish hostile to
,
darts, in uttering these no," frai IsTobis
o ships, Mtto, and cognac t.

, Peers on the Ministerial side.) The best proof of it was
an anecdote e hich arose on an occasion which be was old
enough to recollect—the occasion of a festival at Guild-
hall, at is hich he was present, and at which Mr. Pitt
gave as a toast, " The Ships, Colonies, and Commerce of
England."—(Hear, hear.) That was a most able retort
en Napoleon, but would have been pointless if all
that Napoleon wished was ships, and colonies, and com-
merce. True, be had no mercantile navy—no commerce,
no colonies—and the reason was because England had
ships, colonies, and commerce, because she bad fostered
the growth of that magnificent mercantile marine—be-
cause she had encouraged that without which she never
would have had a navy at all, because she bad ' for the
last 150 years abided by that policy without deviation,
except to adept successive changes to keep that policy
intact, for the purpose of promoting not merely the
commerce of the country, but the growth of a m !rcsn-
tile navy and the building of ships and the raising of
men.—(Hear.) He was stating now what he bad stated
in a publication on this subject so long ago as the year
1802. He had in that work attempted to show the bear-
ing of the principles of his great master, Adam Smith,
and had maintained the great advantage of colonies to
the mother country. Those zealous individuals who
were what were called free-traders never ceased quoting
Adam Smith as a great authority, although they wished
us to have no colonies whatever.—(Hear, bear.) They
considered the colonial trade as a foreign trade, only
returning one capital, but it was an abuse of terms to
call our colonial trade a foreign trade. It replaced two
capitals, and was in all essentials a home trade. To
trade with Jamaica instead of Brazil was to replace two
capitals, the English capital and the Jamaica capital.
If any person would look to the valleys of Westmore-
land or Lancashire, or going further north examine the
counties of Inverness and Hess, ho would see a proof of
the soundness of this doctrine in the very names of the
villas—names suggestive of Jamaica, Barbadoes, Trini-
dad,. and Demerara, and showing that the owners had
built their houses, had cultivated their grounds, and ha'
made the barren heath smile, by the fortunes accumu-
lated in Jamaica, Barbadoes,'and our other West
Indian possessions.—(Hear, hear.) It became, there-
fore, not merely our national glory, but our commercial
prosperity, to have these magnificent colonial establish-
ments. They were, in fact, but extensions of the terri-
tory of our native land. Providence had bountifully cast
our lot in an island fertile in agricultural resources, and
under a climate well calculated to produce habits
of daring and industry in our population. In one
respect, however, our country was limited—it was
limited in variety of production. The produce was not
thatd om oann
d g whichel
la
nat r tyr o
op
fi c
oalorbtlanncheas
dtorsshohnaed. c ar
tir
it tdh across cwr
ss
the seas—

"The flag which braved a thousand years
The battle and the breeze."
They had planted it in the Antilles—in South America
.—in the Cape—in India—and even in China itself ; and
had conquered for us the advantages of other suns and
other climates.—(Hear, hear.) Should we then aban-
don this empire ?—(No.) No, said his Noble Friend
opposite. He perfectly agreed with his Noble Friend in
the cosmopolitan principle of wishing well to every
country ; but then he could not go quite so far as his
Noble Friend, and allow foreigners to share in that
magnificent colonial empire, the outlines of which he
had feebly attempted to sketch. He could never con-
sent that America should have ,all the benefits, and
be left to its own good pleasure to reciprocate.—
(Hear, hear.) Upon that question the Government of
the United States bad been sounded, and something
like a disavowal had been put forth of the concessions
promised by Mr. Bancroft. Now this Bill proposed to
give an American or any other foreign ship, in
a commercial point of view, the same benefit in the trade
of this country as a British ship. It might bring home
our colonial produce and take out our exports to our
colonies, without any equivalent advantage to us, the
foreigner not contributing one shilling to the expense ot
our colonial government. So much with regard to the
colonial trads. With respect to the building of ships
and the breeding of sailors, his Noble Friend opposite
had said that no danger was to be apprehendei. If so,
whence the petitions on the subject? How came the
Liverpool petitions to be signed by as many as 47,000
persons?
The Earl of HARROWBY:—And by the corporation.
Lord BROUGHAM :—And, as his Noble Friend, who
once represented Liverpool, suggested, " and by the
corporation." Sir James Graham might flatter himself
that Liverpool was in favour of the Bill because its two
Members supported it, if be could only explain away the
petitione from thatlu th e townvery againstßill i
itself
fh the
eßill,
found
with u its
ally. 47 I
,000 t
number of Acts, but the first section
stated that it was also intended to protect strictly and
signatures.bgan by e pealing a _
was
ot shte?;)thewiv,hhyolethciosadstiisntgrutsrtandfetohfutphreinecoiupnle-
free trade in navigation? Upon
_ts hat principle d
it proposed to continue to protect the home,utrade,e
rt
t withdraw protection from the colon's h (el .)
ofwhich the whole of the navigation-laws rested. " Oh,
Not o to
us
ru rbeel ys t bseecuatuu seenthe f coastingby
at rsatdbee wpeir
ishte the nu u ruspeoy
r?,
everybodyuschusabpoluyldasbheeaululouvild'ef,
dtt'olie‘m‘ restriction on the bringing of
ar market
y
or on the shipment of wheat
fctsWroaooahcdmilysr,hrtf then hool eNI
from
corn-growing produceen-Fg6t irrenoiauewenetilnei districts to the market of the
metropolis?—(Hear.) Why was the agriculturist not
to have the same be nefit as the merchant in the cheap
conveyance of his produce? Why was it that all traffic
on our rivers and canals and along our coasts should
be by British born subjects alone? But why not do it
as well for the internal us the coasting trade? For the
obvious reason, that they entertained no strong desire to
encourage the class of drovers and waggoners. Evidence
had been adduced to show why the proposed change
should take place. Now, some of the evidence adduced
was most astonishing. For instance, Mr. Mitchell stated
that two Englishmen would do as much work as twelve
write. Now
hNisoewvidebnec;:erndt oi3nrotougshbaomw)that a great
,ioawruhwi had been three times as long
mass of the masters were so ignorant as to be unable to
who had had ten times the experience of Mr. Mit-
chell, knew
eR readbmenaesi
shipping trade, and whose respectabilityemwpaslobydeeyoinn the
question—some of them being as good Whigs as his
Noble Friends opposite— (Laughter)—and as zealous for
the doctrine of free trade—and these men had given him
their distinct assurance that such had not been the case
within their experience, and that Mr. Mitchell must
have been unfortunate if he hod employed captains, 50
per cent. of whom could not read or write.—(Hear.)
He now came to the marrow and pith of tho whole
question.
ofld bthoeudifoogreigznbieprs, siefetedr this sweeping
measure should become law, undersell us in our two
ships ?—(Hear, hear.) Upon that questionof
great articlessounavigatingissue
w as
joined. He was about to prove that this would be the
case. The first witness examined was a shipowner of
the port of Leith, and his evidence was confirmed
by other persons. He stated that be had tried to
build a ship of 500 tons in the most economical man-
ner possible before this question arose, and without
regard to it. The vessel cost him 20/. per ton. Now,
deducting the 21. per ton for the duty on timber, which
might be abolished, that would leave the cost of the
vessel 181. per ton. What'would have been the cost of
building the same ship at Dantzic? Why, 12/. per ton.
—(Hear, hear.) But even supposing the charges to be
141. or 151., and 121., that would be fatal.—(Hear, hear.)
When they spoke of ship building in England, they
spoke of an immense interest. A capital of no less than
16,000,0001. was embarked. The sum annually spent
in the building of ships was 3,000.0001. The outfit
and repairs amounted to 8,000,0001.—(Flear, hear.)
The number of shipwrights employed was about
80,000 at 4s. per day—a set of men as industrious, as
sober, as skilful, as any men of which the country oe'uld
boast.—(Hear.) This was an immense interest, a great
and magnificent branch of business with which
ePar-
liament was making free, and upon which he w.a
rhd.
them not unduly to lay a rude hand.—(Hear,
Mr. Minton, an American, was examined, and hear.
after?
wards some Russians and Prussians, and all gave evi-
dence, every man for himself. Now with respect to
wages. The wages of the master in the Baltic were 3/.
per month, and five per cent. upon the tonnage,
altogether about 51. per month. In e glum and
Holland the master received only about 41. But
Belgium
making
what did he receive in England? 81. 10s.—((1ear, hear)
—Bl. los., according to Mr. Mitchell, for a man who
could neither read nor write, and 51. for a Prussian,
who could do both.—(A laugh.) The men in the Baltic
and the other countries to wtiichot. hehad referred re-
ceivedf; I line
a r, England,hear.) 3L—
(Hear,
This
from 30s. to 355. per monthBd._
hear.) The price of food here wits Is. 3d. per
Ehiusgieltish navigation between this country and
otheru f t h
ue otin ri
comparisonee
English shipbuild-
ingwd lays ;t
andhi ne
occult
foreign ports; and if anybody would look at the relative
numbers an sums, and observe the foundation in the
distance of material and the different habits of the
people in the one case, and, in the other, the nearness
of the material and tho other habits of the people—if
any one would look at those two points, the reason of
the thing going along with the facts and figures—they
would come to this conclusion, that it is impossible,
without protection, for this country to enter into suc-
cessful competition with the United States and the
Baltic, either in the building of ships or the sailing of
them.—(Cheers.) Now, what did this Bill do ? It
strengthened the monopoly of the coasting trade, and it
continued the most oppressive of all the Navigation Act
regulations, the provision that every British ship shall
be manned by an English master, and that three-fourths
of the crew shall be Englishmen.—(Hear, hear.) But
why did the Bill retain the three-fourths? For this
reason :—They dared not give it up—they knew how
much they depended upon these seamen.—(Hear, hear.)
They knew what the consequences of not having them
druawgumet u tnisiolifs tdhaey s, y
wouldstem ; or
nevert e l l them
preserve from
would be; and that all they could do and preach to these
men about free trade—about the navigation-laws and the
t.
(Cheers.)f or them that
Butm ohsut
w invaluable
important
was
u:mto toB themtrisehPY s
maintain rs ohphictierbaheer.aym_t
e
t
It was said, " you may have ono-fourth foreigners;" but
ho (Lord Brougham) thought they could not mix one-
fourth foreigners with three-fourths English. That
would be impossible. They might pass the Bill, but they
would never be able to place one-fourth foreigners
among three-fourths British seamen. And why ? Be•
cause they must have the same wages, they must
eat the same food, and could not speak the
same
coastingthl iasn Bgui al
trade,,g inconsistente'— language.—(Cheers.)
andbee wr
what
suicidal
ibd
eawleooiuhnl dereeqhs
consequence?
epe
ocp
etc
etno?.
would But
itself,
stbuheii
The English trader, or shipowner, or merchant would
employ a foreign ship—(blear, hear)—and not one-
fourth, but four-fourths.—(Hear.) I
'2llat would be the
inevitable result. Ho would beseech their Lordships to
pause betore placing so great an interest in jeopardy-
-4,000,000 of tens of shipping, navigated by 250,000
men, these Dieu being the nursery for our navy. What
was the consequence of having these men? A navy,
which rides triumphantly upon every sea. What would
be the other consepeace? Whet war brooks osi—owing

to the vile, meddling, inconsistent, and false policy every-
where pursued by this country—the policy of touching
everything, and grasping nothing—forgetting the gar-
dener's proverb. "he who would touch a nettle must
grasp it." If they went on in an open way they might
foresee a war, and they would be prepared for it. Through
no fault of their own, through no mistake in their policy,
yet they might be involved in a war, and then how was
their navy to be manned and maintained? Before that
series of immortal victories which had handed down to
fame the names of our St. Vincents and our Nelsons, our
I >uneans and our Howes, and which were the glory of our
military service—just previous to the breaking out of the
war which led to those brilliant and immortal achieve-
ments, they had only 16,000 sailors iti the nal.), in all
their ports and in all the King's ships. In less than six
weeks 35,000 were added to the number.—(Cheers.)
Whence came they? were they landsmen they had en-
listed? No such thing. They were sailors from the
mercantile marine. When the war lid exhausted the
navy, and they had had recourse to the fatal system of
enlisting quota men, as.they were called, from the pa-
rishes, there was seen one of the most disgraceful scenes
which the country had ever known—the mutiny at the
Nore was entirely owing to their having recourse to
landsmen in manning their ships. In place of the
16.000 seamen, their numbers now were nearly doubled
—instead of 16,000 being maintained on a peace estab-
lishment, they had now 32,000 er 33,000, and there-
fore the increase in the mercantile navy as a
nursery for the Royal navy was not out of
proportion. He spoke in times when he would be a
bold man who would take upon himself to pre diet that
the peace of Europe would be maintained. God avert
the omen, but when they looked across the Channel and
saw a Republic whose fate was yet suspended in the ba-
lance and which rested upon a comprehensive military
organization, who could say how long the peace of the
world would be maintained? Ile knew very well why
the troops had been sent to Civita Vecchia; it was
neither to restore the Pope or because Austria had
threatened to interfere; it was because no French Mi-
nister—no French President—durst refuse the French
people, at least the people of Paris, an object on which
they were bent. That was why the troops had been
sent to the Papal States; that was why the general in
command had written a letter for publication in Paris,
declaring that he had landed all his troops without firing
a shot. Why should they have fired a -shot when there
was no one to oppose them? Who could answer for the
peace of Europe with that population in such a state?
a population which had nearly driven the most peace-
able Minister under Louis Philippe to march an army
across the Alps. He rejoiced at the great and glorious
victories obtained by Marshal Radetzky, and only la-
mented that he had not completed his work by occupying
Turin.—(Hear.) That was an error, because such an
act of foolish forbearance had led to bloodshed at Genoa
and elsewhere. The great victories and the humanity of
Marshal Radetzky had preserved Piedmont; Genoa was
now at peace, and the people were now throwing off
the yoke of the most bass and degrad.ed mob leaders
which had ever infested a country, and he trusted that
the Romans were now pacified, and zealously setting
about the establishment of order. Still no man could
look at the peninsula and be sure of the continuance of
peace. In Germany, from the Baltic to the Adriatic,
there was one disposition animating all breasts, a de-
sire to shake existing institutions, and subvert the
thrones which Jet remained. The Russians had
marched to the north, in order to save Hungary from
the anarchy induced by her Polish invaders. Look-
ing at all these things, who could predict with confi-
dence that at the end of three months all Europe would
remain in a state of perfect peace?—(Hear.) Was that
time well chosen for making such a change? They
were in 1849, the 'ear after that year of revolutions,
1848, before the waves-of rebellion had subsided—was
that the time for reeking a great and sweeping change
in that system by which the navy had been created and
maintained—was it at such a time that they were about
to reduce their thousand ships to hundreds—was it at
such a time as that, when they might be called upon to
struggle for very existence—was that the time to break
up that system which provided sech a nursery far the
navy? At any time it must be impolitic, but it was
hardly safe to do it then. Was there any pressure for
the measure—any pressure from without? The friends
of the Government were saying that they would do no-
thing—they were not bold Ministers. Now boldness was
an excellent thing in any one; in a Minister it was an
admirable quality—boldness of the right kind, boldness
to refuse all pressure from without—(Hear, hear)—
boldness to conceive measures for the good of the coun-
try, and boldness to propose them, careless to whom he
might give offence. There was another kind of boldness
—a boldness in bringing forward large measures and put-
ting great interests in jeopardy. That was a boldness for
which he had no admiration. That was a boldness; but

the Minister was not bold at his own cost and charges,
not bold in his own person, but vicariously—a boldness
wherein the Minister did not confront his enemies, but
mado the country confront its perils. If they gave up
that nursery for their seamen, why should they go on
spending the fifteen or sixteen millions on tLe army and
navy? A certain sect had lately sprung up, calling
themselves free-traders," but with whom real free-
traders could hold no communion, and employed them-
selves in preaching the reduction of all our great esta-
blishments. He was strongly of opinion that the step
they were invited to take by her Majesty's Government
was one which they could not wisely nor sa'cly take,
Lecause if once taken they could not retrace it. The
coasting trade was to be left untouched, and the re-
straints on the seamen were not abrogated; so that
another agitation would be got up—another Ricardo
would spring up, in order to have the last remnant of
the system thrown overboard; and if the Bill passed he
would say that it would be difficult to meet them. He
had stated the grounds upon which he rested his oppo-
siden to the measure. He had looked at the ques-
tion and applied his mind to its consideration
with an absolute forbearance of all party motives
—•a throwing over of all personal feelings whatever, and
be had discharged his duty in stating his opinion to the
House. It was for their Lordships to deal with the
measure. If the Bill were rejected, certain consequences,
they.were told, would result. Now, if it were a matter
of minor importance he would have no hesitation in yield-
iteq to his Noble Friend, for he desired no change, but
when the fate of the mercantile marine, as well as the
safety of the royal navy was at stake, his duty compelled
him to a strenuous opposition to the measure the conse-
quence of which he so much dreaded. He desired no
change whatever—he desired success to no party what-
ever, except to those who would honestly and manfully
do their duty to the Queen and their country.—(Cheers.)
What would be the effect of the measure upon the
accursed slave trade? It would increase and stimulate
that trade; for whatever tended to cheapen the car-
riage of sugar of Brazil would increase the slave trade
on the coasts of Africa. When that fact was thrown

into the bitter cup. to sweeten it, he could assure their
Lordships that it was a question on which he could
come to no compromise whatever. Believing his argu-
ments to be sound, as an honest man, as an English-
man, and as a Peer of Parliament, he felt bound to
say that he must oppose the further progress of the
measure.
Lord GRANVILLE did not think be was called upon
to enter into the question as to whether this Bill inter-
fered with the free•trade policy, nor to follow the Noble
Lord in the various observations addressed by him to
their Lordships' House; but it ctrtainly did appear to
him with respect to the measure of free trade, and to
the proposed change in the navigation-laws, that the
more they endeavoured to remove restrictions from com-
merce, and the more they endeavoured to destroy even
a limited monopoly, the better it would prove for the in-
terests of the country. The Noble and Learned Lord
(Lord Brougham) had alluded to the commercial diffi-
culties of the question, and in that respect was more in-
clined to believe the opinions of the :shipowners. Now
as to the petitions of the shipowners, it was to be ob
theythe shipowners,were
et o
didwhom
no t theythin
km
they
to apply the stimulus of competition. He had a great
sreers:edctthfaotr
would willingly mislead the public; but he doubted
whether they themselves felt the alarms which they
stated they apprehended from the passing of this
measure.—(Hear, hear.) There were not more ships for
sale at the present time than in former years, and
ships were in progress of being built at Southampton
and other places. He doubted whether many who
took part against the present measure knew what the
provisions of the navigation-laws were, or how they
would be affected by their repeal.—(Hear, hear.) They
had a large body of merchants who were apprehending
great danger from the repeal of these laws. Seeing,
however, the great increase of trade which had taken
place of late years, arid that free-trade had added to the
wealth of the country, and materially increased the car-
rying trade, he thought it was necessary that a corre-
sponding change should take place in their maritime
system. He would now allude to their warehousing
system, and it appeared that the American Government
had sent a gentleman over to this country to inquire
into its operation, and to make himself acquainted with
the rvoi king of the law. That gentleman had made a
report, and he held in his hand an American paper, in
which the operation of the warehousing system was
invastigat-d and strongly recommended for adop-
tion in America, on account of its advantages to the
commerce, the tonnage, and the revenue.—(Hear,
hear.) The benefit the system had conferred on the
country could not indeed be denied. Under their naviga-
tion -laws the foreigner might send his produce in any
ship ho pleased, while at the same time if a merchant in
their colonies did so, the ships and cargo would be seized.
—(Hear.) T
it The fact was, that the merchants found
trade forced into a certain channel by the navigation-
laws, and might be if that channel was somewhat
widened it would bring in competitors, which would of
course diminish the profits of those hitherto engaged in
the shipping trade. The Noble Lord then referred to
the evidence given before the Lords' Committee as to
the operation of the navigation-laws, and contended that
no one could doubt the advantages which a relaxation of
those laws would confer on the country. The merchant
was sure to do better by being left to himself. The
Noble Lord next referred to shipping returns for a
number of years past, for the purpose of showing the
advantages which competition secured, and especially
regulating the prices of freight. He next alluded to that
in
branch of the question which was involved in ship baild-
ing, and said that whatever might be the case as regarded
a certain class of vessels, it was quite certain
. that
. shipst
of the better class could be built cheaper in_tbhoisßcor
onry
than in any other part of the world. The
If any danger existed of competition e
while thcoun-
trye
iron and America,
iron was hot, and place the commerce carried on between
preen this •
it would be well to strike.
the table, if passed into law would
. beb at self-acting law.
isasimieddfoothtiantgw.—h(tiHn etairte,l7waerr.)e
()hal country in the world
.to begin a war of tariffs.—
time let loose the coasting trade also; but as to the latter
wsaasfecoarondp
He did not think it would become. the greatest eon). mer-
pqrsuits, and
(t. the
ecountriesa r
tariffs.--
(Hear, h,
a i,.) on lat
letting loose the foreign trade, they had not at the same
it was clear that ro foreigner would
.. enter into competi-
tion with them. As to the British sailor, he believed
him to bare a natural aptitude for maritime