The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-23 00:00:00

vption, and the greatest difficulty Would have existed In
finding cu. t whether the returning officer had really dis-
charged Ins duty justly and conscientiously. With respect
to what had fallen from the lion. and Learned Member
for Weymouth, who observed that the petitions which
asked for Reform, not only asked for that, hut for ballot,
and a reduction in tithes, he held in his hand o worn
which had been made by a Committee that had been ap-
pointed at the instance of the Hon. Member for Preston,
from which it appeared that there had been 645 petitions
presented for Reform, 280 for the halloo and only 70 with
respect to tithes in all its varied shapes. This being the
case, how could the Hon. and Learned Gentleman contend
with justice that the people, in asking for Reform, hail
also universally milted for the vote by ballot and tl,e de-
struction of tithes? But a favourite argument that had
been urged was, that the people were just as well repre-
sented under the present system as they could be under any
other. Now he thought that the question of retrenchment
was as fair a test of that peint as could well be taken ;
and from a former summary that he had made, it would
appear that, on a motion for retrenchment, only thirty
Members for boroughs, the population of which did not
exceed 1,000, voted for the question, while 96 voted
against it ; and of the representatives; of boroughs whose
population exceeded 5000, 66 voted for the motion, and
only 47 against it.—(Hear, hear.)—He had only one
thing more to say in regard to the Bill. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had laid great stress on the power
gie to to the Privy Council. He felt himself that this
might be to jectionable ; and if any plan could be found
to prescribe the line and restrain the extent of its opera-
tion, and which did not, at the same time, endanger the
working of the Bill, he for one should not object to it.
Should such a plan be brought forward, or should his Ma-
jesty's Ministers be able to suggest such a plan, he should
be re.rdy to aeree to it. He had then done with the par.
ticular provision' of the Bill, and he wished to call the at
tention of the house to the particular question before it.
The Ministers had introduced a plan for reforming the re-
presentation, for giving to a different close of persons the
poser of a constituency, and by extending the basis of the
franchise th at the representation of the people in that House
might be restored. He did not say that plan might not be
altered, but he wished to give those who would consent to
go into the Committee, with a view to alter it, notice, that
if they were to make the smallest alteration in the
Bill, neither he nor any one else would think him-
self precluded by the measure so altered passing from
bringing forward at any future time 'that part of the
plan which might be rejected. There would be great
difficulty in altering the plan. If alterations were made
coneistent with the principle of the measure, and con-
sistent with the object the Ministers had in view, to such
an alteration he should not make any objection. If al-
terations were made essentially altering the character of
the measure, if those interests were excluded which the
Bill admitted into the representation, it would only lead
to a prolonged struggle, and would end in securing the
triumph, while it alienated the affections of the people.
We lived in extraordinary times. The lion. Member for
Cornwall who opposed the measure, anti who seemed to
think he knew of some means of governing the mighty
mass of opinions, had given them many warning;, derived
from foreign countries, against the danger of making con-
cessions to the people : had that Hon. Member ever looked
at the danger of resisting ? Was he aware of the diffi-
culty of placing himself in a position which could not he
defended, by reason of having, day after day, and year
after year, to defend that which was called the representa-
tion of the people from the accusation of being the nomi-
nees of Peers; of seats being bought ; and of the owners
of them voting, not as was necessary for the good of the
country, but for their own private interests? Was he
not aware of the difficulties of resisting that state of things,
and of teirrying on the Government of the country while
it exited' The Hon. B 'tenet had referred much to re-
volutions, and particularly to the French revolution of
I7SS. to deter them from prosecuting the measure ; but
the Hon. Baronet had overlooked the latest and most im-
portant revolution—that of tire month of August last. How
was that caused ? Was it the character of Charles X. and
of Prince Polignac to he too ready to grant popoular Re-
form ? were they found too willing to grant concessions-
to the people, which great, and wise, and good men ap-
proved of ? Was it not rather from opposing the popular
opinion—from violently transgressing the laws—from vio-
lating Charters ?---(Cheers continued for some time, par-
ticularly on the part of the Opposition.) Not taking
away the right of sending Members to Parliament from
persons who were unfit to exercise it, but the violation of
a great Constitutional Charter granted by the Sovereign.
It was not from granting freedom or encouraging liberty,
but from endeavouring to establish a dictatorship by force,
mad not being able to accomplish this, though they had all
the machinery of a powerful army and an admirable guard
--(No, no,)—yet were all their means dispersed at once,
and tine revolution effected. He thought that there
transactions afforded a lesson not to be overlooked—he
thought th it they afforded a lesson to those who held
superior places—it afforded a lesson to all, that by
conciliation in time the affections of the people might
be preserved, and the authority of Government pre-
served. There was s time when the present Ministers of
France, with whom he was formerly intimate, there was a
time when a concession on the part of Charles X. to appoint
the present Ministers and allow a law to pass by which
80,000 instead of 40.000 persons should contribute to
elect the municipal officers; there was a time when con•
cessions inks these would have given satitfaction to the
French people, and have saved the French Mo-
narchy. He regri teed that this plan had not been
followed ; he regretted that the opposite course had
been pursued, for he could have wished that the Bourbon
dynasty should have been firmly established, and should
have united the liberty of the country with tho splendour
of an aiicient monarchy. I', as the Hon. Gentleman tes-
tified there was danger in concessions, it could not be de-
nied that there war danger in resisting. To include the
people in the Government, and satisfy them, was tine pm
inwere
-
ciple of tire present measure. The objections
made to this me :sure were, that it would lead to resolu-
tion and democracy. He doubted tine assumption, and
was prepared tie confide in the good's use and discretion of
the people. It was said, that if the people were allowed
to send their own representatives to that House, they
would destroy the Monarchy and the House of Lords, and
send men into that House who would have no regard or
respect for tile institutions of the country. He confided,
however, in tire people ; lie believed that they had an in-
terest in the Monarchy, and an interest in preserving the
House of Peers.—( Hear, Lear.)—He believed, moreover,
that if there was that tendency to republiconisrst which
was said to prevail in the country, there would be no use in
refusing the representation to the people, and to resist that
tendency to repuhlieaniam would be, he believed, beyond
the power of Parliament. He believed, that if the people
were properly represented, that they would not make that
revolution which Hon. Gentlemen dreaded. He must con-
tinue to place his confidence in the good sense, in the habits,
and in the interests of the intelligent people of this country.
It was, therefore, he said, that what be proposed to the
House to do would not advance democracy, hut it would
make the Constitution harmonise with the state of the
people, conjoining these two together—and conjoining them
was one of the moat difficult of all political problems, so as
to make the state of the people harmonise in one balanced
Constitution of King, Lords, and Commons, with the re-
presentation of the people in the House of Commons ; but
which difficult thing lie believed, if the present Bill were
passed in' o a law, and the principles he hail laid down were
adopted, they would be in a fair way of at.compl.;sliing,—
( [fear, hear, question, question.) He had but one obser-
vation more to make. 'The Members of the House had
frequently reproached them in the course of the debate
with having gone beyond expectations.--(Hear, hear.)
But what the Ministers had done.--a reproach which gave
him some satisfaction—had surpassed the expectations
even of those who looked upon Reform as not endan-
gering the stability of the Constitution. Let hint observe
that that was a new complaint, He had heard Whig
Ministers accused of being too ready to act like their pre-
decessors, of falling into their system as soon as they had
got into place, and of forgetting all the pledges and pro-
atriesi they had given when they were out of office.
Thatimputation Ire was content to accept. He was
content
to say that when be sat on the other side of the
House he was
somewhat fearful, when he had no respon-
sibility ande that what he proposed when he had
no share of tharzn etrntmeo int, and which might then)
seem wise and expedient
Government,
nor expedient to these who I might seem neither wise
power and were respon-
sible for its exercise, u might ap-
peared
perfect to him. eethat
thet defects of what
ctiled to take part in the admimstratrieimwwash' inn hpelacaend and
ds
friends were in power and had responsibility,
hesitated,i! to go to
gave him
satisfaction to think that they had
the full extent of their opinion" when outof
that they had not hesitated to risk that power' Peoowel. risk
their fame, to risk their places, and all that was dear to
them as men and Ministers; to provide largely fur the
liberty, and generously for the constituency of Great
Britain.—(Cheers, loud calls of " Question.")
Mr. 1117 NT stood up. He implored for a hearing for
three minutes—for two minutes.—(Loud calls for " Ques-
tion ;" but the Hon. Member standing firm, silence was
speedily restored.) The Hon. Member then said, that
tie Hon. and Learned Member for NI, eymouth had stated,
that as he read the Bill the electors f Preston would ire
disqualined, If that went forth to the public unexplained,