The Sun.
London, England, 1836-07-08 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY. JULY 8, 1836

which produced good crops at a less expense. He would
only add, that his present feeling was that the measure
was calculated to be a very beneficial one.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) There were certain amendments, to which he
trusted there would be no objection, which would be pro-
posed by him in the Committee, in -no other spirit and
vith no other desire than that of improving the Bill. Be-
fore he sat down he felt it but justice towards those who
had been concerned in framing the Bill to say, that in his
opinion the country was greatly indebted to them for having
devoted their fullest attention to the subject, and for having
framed a measure as little liable to objection, he believed,
as any that could be introduced on so difficult and delicate
a subject.—(Hear.)
Lord WI NFOitD was of opinion, from the evidence
he had heard before the Committee above stairs, that the

tithe-owner was likely to be the great gainer by the Bill.
and that more land was likely to go out of cultivation than
to come it. He wished to hear from the Noble Marquis
what was meant by the " extreme cases" mentioned in
clause 35. Concurring in the propriety of giving the Com-
missioners great powers, but thinking at the same time that
there should be some appeal from their decision, he would
on!y add, that he highly approved of the principle of the
Bill, and that any amendments he might suggest in Com-
mittee would be merely brought forward with a view to its
improvement.
'flie Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, with reference
to the words " extreme cases" in clause 35, although they
had accidentally crept into the margin, they did not appear
in the enacting part of the Bill. The discretion which the
Commissioners were enabled to exercise was founded upon
an application from a portion of the landowners, stating that
the value of the tithe was not fairly represented, in which
case they had the power of varying the amount by one-fifth,

either way ; but they could not do this without reporting'
the grounds of their decision to the Secretary of State, who
would lay them before Parliament. With regard to an ex-
tension of the period within which the voluntary settlement
should be allowed, if it should appear advisable to many of
their Lordships to make it two years instead of one, he
should offer no objection.—(Hear, hear.)
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Tuesday.—Adjourned.

sanction of the highest authorities in the country, and
they had before them the lawfulness and prudence of the
objects they desired to accomplish.—(Hear, hear.) He
had no particular interest in this subject, further than to
advance the general interests of the country.—(Hear.)
Having a large property in Ireland, it was probable that
some portions of those lines would pass near or through his
property. He assured them that for no private views of his
own would he even support any line, which would have not
for its object the greatest public advantages from point to
paint.—',Hear.) There could be no doubt that there was
a great amount of capital in Ireland—there was, too, the
greatest possible disposition in England, and especially in 1
this great metropolis, to vest that capital in Ireland. He I
hoped then that his countrymen in Ireland would be guided
by that prudence and forethought which he believed to ex-
ist in this metropolis, so that English capital might not be
engaged in the undertaking of any measure that was not
well founded, and that they would look to the promised
advantages which may be held out to them in consequence
of this work being carried into effect. There was no way
so calculated to establish confidence in Englishmen as this
—to refer the railroad lines to competent engineers—to
engineers active, intelligent, assiduous, and disinterested,
not connected with any particular parties seeking for a
railroad, but to be nominated by a Board hereafter to be
named—he would say by the person named by his Right
Honourable Friend the Knight of Kerry (Colonel Bur-
goyne), that he was disposed to place in him every con-
fi:lence. That gentleman was at the head of a Board for
administering large sums of money for the interests of
Ireland. It would be wise and expedient, if the labour
imposed was not too great, and make use of that
Board, for objects of the description they now sought
for. He for one, would feel considerable confidence if
the subject were referred to that Board. This matter
could riot be placed in the hands of the Government exclu-
sively as it was in foreign countries. These speculations
should be left to those who risked in them the capital
earned by their own industry. Such an object could only be
accomplished when their own public officers, engineers of
the highest character, engaged to lay down plans for rail-
roads—these officers, not immediately concerned in carrying
any Bill through Parliament, ought to do this.—Hear,
hear.) It was obviously the desire of Parliament (he be-
lieved it was at last disposed) to put a check upon the great
number of speculations now afloat, and which had .not vet
reached Ireland, except in one or two instances. He
thought that this object might be attained, and that Ireland
wovld not be oppressed with a multitude of railways, spoil-
ing the country, and wasting capital in fruitless undertak-
ings, and injuring public as well as private property.—
(Hear, hear.) There was in Ireland a great anxiety to
improve property ; but what he dreaded in any of those
undertakings was a failure. If this occurred, it would
throw the country back, and that he dreaded much more

than the money which would be lost. If they unanimously
concurred upon this subject, they would, he thought,
confer very great advantages upon the country. Perhaps
they, as Irish proprietors, would give an example to the
English people, by proving to them that they were resolved
to look cautiously around them before they took any de-
cided step on a matter so deeply important as the present.
The Marquis of HEADFORT seconded the resolu-
tion, which was passed unanimously. .
The subsequent resolutions were proposed and supported
by Lord Clonmel, Mr. G. Evans, ALP., the Earl of Charle-
mont, Mr. O'Connell, M.P., the Marquis of Westmeath,
and Sir William Somerville.
Mr. O'CONNELL observed, that there was but one
railroad in Ireland, the Drogheda and Dublin railroad, now
before Parliament. The opposition to that railroad had
been abandoned. As in the resolutions it was not their
intention to interfere with that railroad, he wished a reso-
lution to be adopted which would express such to be the
feeling of the meeting.
The Earl of CHARLEMONT would be satisfied with any
resolution which merely expressed this—that they had no
wish to interfere with the line of railroad then before Par-
,•

Imment.
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON considered that what had occur-
red with respect to the Drogheda and Dublin railroad was a
perfect illustration of the advantages that might be derived
from a system such as these resolutions suggested, and the
evil consequences of entering into a ruinous litigation before
a Committee in Parliament. It was suggested, with a view to
prevent Parliamentary litigation, that an engineer should be
selected to determine which would be the best line to be
fbrmed.from Dublin to Drogheda. He preferred the coast
line ; but he stated that if the engineer should determine upon
the inland line, he would give it every support in his
power.—(Hear, bear, hear.) At a subsequent meeting
held in Navan, it was suggested to lay the inland kind sea-
coast lines before the Board of Works, and to abide by
their award. This offer was subsequently made to Lord
Killeen. He did not mean to say that those who sup-
Ported the inland line did not believe themselves to be
right ; but this he might say, that if the opposite party had
accepted his offer, a vast deal of money might have been
'saved.—( Hear.) He only mentioned this as an illustra-
tion of the propriety of the course they proposed to be
adopted for the future. Then he suggested that the matter
should be determined by an engineer, acting under the
directions of Government, or to leave the decision entirely
to the Government.

Mr. O'CONNELL observed that the expenses before the
Committee were enormous. The parties there certainly had
very able Counsel, who had no reason to regret an adjourn-
ment to another day.—(Laughter.) Even his professional
prejudices had been completely overcome by what he wit-
nessed.

Mr. G. A. HAMILTON begged to say that there was a
gentleman in the room, a capitalist of Manchester, and who
had invested a large sum of money in this Irish Railway.
Ile could state how ruinous, in his opinion, was the vast
expenditure of public money before a Committee.
The. Marquis of WESTMEATH—There can be no doubt
at all about it.

Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH remarked that, in 1824, the
Government of the United States advanced a certain sum
to hare surveys made for the best lines for railways and ca-
nals. So soon as those lines were completed, the works
were undertaken, and out of the general works the expenses'
of the surveys were defrayed.
Mr. WALKER wished to say one word with respect to
the Dublin and Drogheda Railway. He would say this for
himself and others, shareholders in Manchester, that they
would not have subscribed to the Drogheda Railway if they
had known there would be the litigation about it that there
bad been.—(Hear, hear.) The majority subscribed under
the idea, that by doing so they would serve themselves and
confer a benefit upon Ireland. It was with that idea he
subscribed, and thus did many others.

The resolution submitted by Mr. O'Connell and amended
by the Marquis of Westmeath, was then unanimously adopted.
Mr. BIRMINGHAM wished to submit to the meeting a
series of resolutions which he had prepared for their consi-
deration. Ile thought their adoption would save a vast
deal of time and money. He would recommend to the dif-
frent Companies who were now having ourveys made, to
form one Board, by which the main trunk-line would be de-
termined upon. Every one of the distant parts of a line
pay the least. The main trunk paid the best, and every
one of the most distant parts from the main trunk could
gain by the adoption of the resolutions ha had now the
honour to read to the meeting :
Resolved—That each party now seeking for a railroad
to particular places, shall survey their own lines at their
awn expense, and that the instructions to their respective
engineers be to select a line out of Dublin, which each
shall, in his opinion, consider as affording the best common
line for the greatest distance, for the north-west, west, and
south-west, and from whence other lines may diverge, thus
confining the exit out of Dublin for those parts of Ire-
land to one main line, thereby saving an enormous expense
in the purchase of property in the vicinity of the metropolis.
Resolved—That in order to ascertain the best main trunk
out of the metropolis for the north-west, west, and south-
west, a Commission be appointed by Government, with
powers to examine the result of the explorings, and receive
evidence from the several engineers employed by the respec-
tive parties. And that the decision of the Commission-
ers, after such investigations, shall determine Parliament as
to the best main-trunk line out of the metropolis for the por-
tions of the kingdom already mentioned.
Resolved—That after this Commission shall have reported
on such trunk line, an equal number of the Directors of the
varioas Companies now seeking for their respective lines
shall be selected to constitute a general board, so that the
respective Companies may have a common interest in such
main trunk to the north-west, and west, and south-west of
Ireland.

Mr. LEFROY objected to the resolutions. They would
tie up all the Companies now forming from doing anything
until the main-trunk was determined.
Mr. R. PLUNKETT also objected to the resolutions.
,The
main principles embodied in them had already been adopted:
The KNIGHT of KERRY complimented Mr. Birmingham
upon his'useful labours upon this subject He, however,
considered if they adopted these resolutions, they bound
themselves down to a specific 'line.
Mr. BIRMINGHAM withdrew his resolutions.
Mr. LYNCH stated that it was in contemplation, he un-
derstood, to bring forward a proposition that at the end of
9..'5 years there should be a power of revising or abolishing
tolls on railroads. If a Bill containing such a proposition
were to pass, it would bo difficult to procure money for
establishing railroads.

The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE—If there be any such
proposition, it only shows the necessity of our again meeting.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH—What is it Mr. Lynch
says that it is ,to be proposed for Parliament to do ?
Mr. LYNCH—To abolish tithes.--(Loud laughter.) I
beg your Lordship's pardon, to abolish tolls on railroads.
The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE was then called to the
chair, and the thanks of the meeting offered to the Duke of
Leinster, for his conduct as Chairman.