The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-24 00:00:00

OUT-DOOR PAUPERS BILL.

On the motion for bringing up the report on this Bill,
The Duke of RICHAIOND proposed a clause giving
the Poor-law Commissioners power of appointing a paid
vistor to out-door establishments for farming pauper
children.

The Earl of CARLISLE would take the matter into
his consideration.

The report was then received.
IRELAND AND THE POPE.

Lord BROUGHAM asked whether or not it was true
that several of those unions in which the great arrears of
of poor-rates were due had been most conspicuous for
the largeness of the sums they had subscribed fur the
Pope.
After a few words from the Marquises of LANsDowNE
and CLANRICARDE, the subject dropped.
DISTRAINING FOR RATES BILL.

---
On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, the House re-
solved itself into Committee on this Bill.

The Earl of MALMESBURY proposed several
amendments; among others, the including church-rates
in the Bill.

Lord CAMPBELL did not object to include church-
rates in the Bill, but he did object to the other amend-
ments proposed, as those amendments would substitute
the petition from the clerks to the justices for the Bill.
The Duke of RICHMOND supported the amend-
ments.

Lord BEAUMONT approved highly of the object of
the Bill.

The amendments were then withdrawn, and the Bill
passed through Committee.

IRISH RATES.

Lord MONTEAGLE moved for an estimate of the
sum which it is calculated will be raised under a rate of
2 per cent. on rateable property in Ireland. In the west
of Ireland eight unions which were represented to be in
great distress, and were in the province of Connaught,
required a sum of 160,0001. to relieve the distress. It
was to be observed that the administration of these unions
was not in the hands of any local authority, but by the
officers of the Government, and therefore it was to be
presumed that every rate that could be levied had been
collected, and this was proved by the fact that in one in-
stance the cow of a man who had no other means of sup-
porting his family had been sold for the payment of a
poor-rate under a distress, and further that the goats of
the peasantry were seized for the payment of rates. He
stated this to show that the resources of the unions were
exhausted. He could further state that the distress was
now greater than it was last year. This rate, if
collected throughout all Ireland, would yield 300,0001.
a year. This was an increase upon a former
tax, and which was opposed by the people
of Ireland. When an increase of the income tax was
proposed in this country, it was opposed, and therefore
this increase of taxation in Ireland should not be con-
sidered small, nor should they sneer at Ireland in resist-
ing it. Now he wished to know whether this increased
rate would meet the difficulty it was intended to remedy.
He believed it would be insufficient, and therefore he
asked for an estimate of its probable amount, which
they ought to have before them before they came to a
vote.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE said he concurred in the in-
quiry moved for, and would suggest that it should be
fuller than that he proposed, that he should give a re-
turn of the unions rated to more than ss. in the pound.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said the Government
was anxious to give every information in their power,
but it would be quite impossible to give any estimate
which would be regarded as an approximation to accu-
racy. It would be impossible to say what unions now
solvent may be enabled to pay hereafter. They could
not make any estimate sufficiently correct to.be of use to
their Lordships in forming a judgment.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM said, by the admission of the
Noble Marquis, the condition of the parishes varied from
day to day. What a disclosure to make of the state of
Ireland, and showed how fallacious and unsatisfactory
were the expectations that this plan would meet the diffi-
culty. It was not sufficient to say that they could not
make an estimate of mathematical accuracy, still a cal-
culation should be made, because it was the duty of
Parliament to take care that no portion of her Majesty's
subjects should be diminished by famine. The Legisla-
ture of this country acted right in imposing upon the
Irish community the duty of maintaining the poor in the
separate districts, but they should carry that out in its
legitimate results. Ireland was not a financial commu-
nity—it ceased to be so in 1815, and now formed a por-
tion of the imperial community. It followed, then, that
imperial resources must be had recourse to in difficult
circumstances; and he trusted that the power of Eng-
land—that the 500 English Members of the Legislature
would not cast an unequal and heavy burden on the
weaker portion of tbo empire'. It was stated a few
days ago, in the other House of Parliament, by an
eminent Member of that House, that the annual income
of England was two hundred and fifty millions; and,
according to the calculations he (Earl Fitzwilliam) made,
the income of Ireland did not amount to one-tenth of
it. Under these circumstances, they called on that
weaker portion to support its poor, and in doing so they
did not even take the precaution of compelling the en-
tire of the income of Ireland to contribute, but imposed
it exclusively on about one-half of the property of the
country.

The Bishop of CASIIEL observed that, to his own
knowledge, hundreds had been reduced to poverty in
consequence of the pressure of poor rates, and thus
another class was added to the pauperism of the country.
He should protest against any measure which would
burthen those who were only a few steps removed from
the pauper himself, and were eventually, in consequence
of the pressure, reduced to the necessity of seeking relief
themselves. He therefore sincerely hoped that the at-
tention of her Majesty's Government would be directed
to this most important subject, and some remedy applied
to put a stop to an evil of the greatest magnitude.
The Earl of WICKLOW should like to know, at
what period before, a Chancellor of the Exchequer came
forward to propose a tax, without giving an estimate
of the necessities he intended to meet. A Committee
of Inquiry was appointed by both House to enter into
the entire question, but before any report could be
made by either, or evidence even collected, a
measure was brought forward, which he could not help
thinking to be very ill-considered. He himself believed
it was a measure which would deceive the country for
whose benefit it was intended, and promote the evils it
was intended to remove. He confessed that, in consi-
dering the question—considering the mode in which it
was brought forward, he believed himself, that the ulte-
rior object in view was to get in one end of the wedge,
preparatory to another measure, which would no doubt
be brought forward. He thought that after the rates
of the different unions in Ireland had failed to meet
the distress, a rate in aid should then be taken out of
the Imperial resources. He also deeply regretted the
motion of his Noble Friend was not agreed to by the Go-
vernment.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE observed that he
only wished to guard the Government from making any
estimate which might afterwards be found fallacious, and
if the Noble Lord added the words " as far as it was
practicable" to his motion, he should have no objection to
consent to it. He denied that the increase was made
without any calculation. It was, no doubt, extremely
objectionable i❑ principle; but their Lordships should
recollect it was brought forward solely to meet a great
and present emergency.
After a few words from Lord MONTEAGLE, the
motion as amended was agreed to.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 23.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four
o'clock.

NEW MEMBERS.

The Hon. Mr. STANLEY took the oaths and his seat
for Lynn, in the room of Lord George Bentinck, de-
ceased. The Hon. Gentleman was introduced by the
Marquis of Granby and Viscount Jocelyn.
Mr. PATRICK SOMERS took the oaths and his seat for
Sligo.