The Sun.
London, England, 1831-01-18 00:00:00

BERKSHIRE REFORM MEETING.

A public meeting of the freeholders and residents of
the county of Berks was held yesterday at the Town-hall,
at Reading, pursuant to a requisition addressed to the
High Sheriff, for the purpose of considering the propriety
of petitioning the Legislature for Reform in Parliament.
The meeting, was numerous, and highly respectable.
At twenty minutes past twelve the High Sheriff came
on the bench, accompanied by the Ea!! of Radnor, and
was received by the meeting with applause. There were
also present Mr. Dundas and Mr. R. Palmer the Mem-
bers for the county ; Mr. F. Palmer and Mr. Russell,
the Members for the town of Reading; Mr. Monek, Mr.
W. Hallett, Dr. Mitford, Mr. Marsh, and a considerable
number of other gentlemen connected with the county.
W. HA ',LET, Esq., proposed that the High Sheriff be
requested to take the Chair.
Dr. MITFOLD seconded this resolution, which was ear-
-1 ied nein. dis.

The HIGH SHERIFF then read the requisition, pursuant
to which he had convened the meeting.
Mr. W. HA LLET then came forward and addressed the
meeting.—Mr. High Sheriff, and Gentlemen of the county
of Berks, I hold in my hand it petition to the Legislature
which I shall, at the conclusion of what I have to address
to von, move be read and submitted for your approval—
and I shall afterwards move that the High Sheriff be re-
quested to sign it on behalf of the meeting. Gentlemen,
after the tragical scenes we have witnessed in this and
neighbouring counties, as also in some more remote, and
which, I am sorry to say, are not yet all over, it would
ill become me to take up your time in giving utterance to
any thing which would tend to excite the public mind.
That shall not be my task. My wish and object would
be to south the public mind, and to allay irritation, ra-
ther than excite it.—(Hear, hear. )-1 take the present
state of the country to be like that of a ship which is
got amongst shoals and rocks, has a storm impending,
and is also on fire in several places. I take it, that un-
der such a condition of the vessel, it would not be a proper
time for the crew to fall out amongst themselves. The
object of their inquiries and efforts should not be how
the ship got into those difficulties, but how it was to
get out of them.—(Hear, hear.)—Our duty on the pre-
sent occasion should be something similar, Gentlemen,
I have not been, for a long time, in the habit of compli-
menting Midsters—(Hear)—and I do not stand up hire
to do so now ; but I think I may fairly say, that the pre-
sent Ministry deserve some compliment, as they have been
the only set of men who have entered office with the
broad avowal of Reform, of retrenchment, and of that
principl, of non-interference in the internal concerns of
other countries, the observance of which affords the best
security that there will be no disturbance of the peace of
our own.—(Hear, hear.)—Gentlemen, the petition about
to be read to you is so drawn up, that lam satisfied no
person here will think it too complimentary, considering
what we know of the existing state of representation.
We Reformers have been tubl that we are visionary men,
dealing in vague and general theories, and not reducing
them to any thing practical ; and we have also been told,
that neither my Lord Grey nor my Lord Lansdowne will
consent to any kind of Reform which may have the effect
of disturbing the country. It is to meet the objections
thus raised that I have used these words. I want to show
that we are all agreed upon, and that all we want is, a
rational, practical, and efficient Reform. The word
practical," too, I have kept in for this additional reason
—that it was the word used by Mr. (now Lord)
Brougham, at the public dinner given at Leeds, on hi,
return for the county of York. lie then professed himself
a practical Reformer, because, as he said, he was a practical

man. Now, I have retained the word to show that %% e
also arc practical men, and that all we want is practical
Reform. Lord Brougham is no doubt, a practical man,

and these is, I think, as little that he. will make

very good Lord Chancellor. He will certainly have
plenty of practice on his hands, if he follows up his opi-
nions recorded these twenty years back on this and other

impottant subjects ; but after what he has expressed on
this in particular, I must own I should like to see what
sort of a measure it is he would produce. The Noble
Lord is now in Chancery, and I hope his opinions about
practical Reform are not there also ; for, if so, I fear they
will never getout.—(Hear, hear.)—l remember, when
Lord (then Mr.) Grey presented the celebrated petition
for Reform in 1793. lam the same age as his Lordship,
and therefore remember it well. In that petition it was
stated, and proof of it offered at the bar, that 154 Peels
and Commoners returned by their direct influence a de-
cided majority of the House of Commons. Now I must
sly, that unless we have such a Reform as will destroy
. . . . _

that system of representation, it will not be what I would
call efficient Befot m.—(llear, hear.)—There are many
other points which might be touched upon relating to this
subject, but those I have mentioned are the chief. I per-
ceive my Lord Grey has expressed an opinion hostile to
the principle of universal suffrage. He did not enter upon
the question of vote by ballot, awl from that I am induced
to hope, that he has not yet finally made up his mind re-
specting it. However, the former is a point I would not
press now. I think we should act unwisely to grasp at
too much at once, lest, perchance, we should lose all.—
(Hear, hear.)—l am told, that when a man becomes
a Member of Parliament, he becomes a representative
of the whole nation. So he may, I admit, for many
purposes; but I deny that he is the representative of
all in respect of taxation. To a man of plain common
sense like myself, it becomes hard to conceive how a person
who should stop me at Hounslow, and take my purse by
force, can be considered my representative. Ile may be a
self-appointed deputy to spend it, but he certainly is not my
representative. On the subject of vote by ballot I shall
only farther state, that by the Bill of Rights it is declared
that the election of a Member of Parliament shall be free.
Now I ask, how can that man be said to be a free elector
whose choice is constrained in any one way ? The fear of
disobliging his landlord, or his influential neighbour, or an
old friend, if it Operates upon him so as to give a direction
to his vote which it would not receive from his own un-
biassed choice, is constraint, and while it exists he cannot
be said to be a free elector. The Hon. Gentleman then
proceeded to other points, by which he thought a remedy
'night be afforded to the distress of the country, first observ-
ing, that as to universal suffrage, he held the principle that
there was no right to taxation without representation.—
What he was about to propose to the meeting was something
mild of his own. It would nut have done sonic years
ag6; but, now that something must lee don.," to relieve the
country, he would point out what would do so in his opi-
nion. He would begin by reduction—ample and effectual
reduction—of the public burdens; for the nation might be
starved if they were to wait to inquire what could be done
by cutting off a little here and a little there. He would re-
duce the burdens of the country by a sum of 20,000,0001.
at once. This would relieve the country, and would at the
same time relieve the Ministers, for it would give them
time to look about them.. Then the question was, how

this sum was to he obtained? Why, he might observe
that the Ministers of this country found nu difficulty in
raising hundreds of millions to carry on a war, and he
thought there could be stilt less in raising it to assist the
country in time of peace, and to relieve her froni sonic of
the effects of the War. Ile would not, however, have
Government go to the 'Change, or to 'Change-alley. It
had gone there often enough—a little too often. Such a
relief from taxation as this would afford would be quite a
jubilee fur the country. We should hear no more of riots
or destruction of machines, for the people would have
plenty of work, and they would attend to it. The relief
thus afforded would be sufficient to remit all assessed and
excise taxes for one year. Then the question was how
they should get the money ? Ile would not, he repeated,
go to the 'Change for it—he would go to the Commis-
sioners for the reduction of the National Debt, and see
what money they had got in hand—he believed it was
200,0001.—(A Noble Lord (Radnor) near, corrected him,
and said it With nearer 200,000,0001.)-11 that were so, he
would ask what sum of that could be sold in the market
in order to produce the sum he had mentioned. But he
would not go there at first ; he would go to the Court of
Chancery, where upwards of 40,000,000/. were locked up,
much of it riot likely ever to be claimed. He would try
whether he could not borrow 20,000,000/. of this sum
from the Accountant-General, which should be secured
and repaid in due time. Ile next stated, as another mode
of assisting the country, that he would employ part of the
military force in clearing the New Forest, which was now
almoit useless to the country, and make it available to cult -
vation to an immense extent. Ile would also have a tax on
real property : but he did not mean an income tax, but a tux
on all tangible property—on lauded estates, on money in
the funds, mid on mortgages. It was well known
how county rates (which would be unusually large this
year) pressed very heavily on the landed interest. They
had also to pay poor-rates. Now he would make the
property of others who were equally interested in the
peace of the country liable to these assessments. Ile would
noPke all pay who derived protection and benefit. It was
said that the King of France had immense stnni in our
funds, because he felt they could he nowhere more secure.
Ile should pay for that protection, as well as the holder of
(eller property in the country. This was only reasonable.
What was the use of the match of intellect if the country
I (lid not get some relief in this way ? And if Ministers
did not afford some effectual relief, they ought to lie sent
to the right about. One Word as to the poor. Ile re-
peated that he did not mean to say any thing which would •
tend to create excitement ; but he must say, that in must

parts of the country, the poor were not treated with that
kindness and attention which was calculated to beget a
proper feeling on their part towards the rich. It was but
too tine that the good feeling which ought to exist between
the two classes had been weakened. He would not enter
into the cause ; he stated the fact. He would now come
to another point on which he had not vet touched. The
poor were distressed for fuel. In Dorsetshire and Devon-
shire the poor had nothing to do but to dig for Turf. In
times of yore, before the country was civilized, any one
might take wood for the fire wherever he could get it. In
later times he might dig turf whether be had a right of
turbary or net. There was nothing of this any longer.
He would call the attention of the farmer to the condition
of the poor, and would ask him whether his woods and
plantations were now safe or no? Did wt the farmer suffer
injury from his cattle trespassing into the grounds of others?
and was it owing to any other cause than that the poor had
broken down his fences? They were now induced to begin
a career of crime to obtain fuel : they took that which
did not belong to them ; and therefore, in a moral point
of view, it was expedient to furnish them with this first
necessary of life. There was a charitable society at New.
bury, which provided the poor with fuel at prime cost :
there was a A imilar society in that town, and elsewhere in
the county. Many of the rich, too, he believed, were
kind to the poor ; but take the country through, and they
had no fuel. How would he provide them with this ar-
ticle ? His first fund—for he had several—would be de-

rived, supposing the Reform Bill to pass, from the money
accruing from the certificates fo voting. Letting them
pay sixpence in the pound fur those certificates : that was
no great sum. But as they deprived the poor of the right
,of voting, they ought to give them fuel instead. It was
his decided conviction, that the poor would rather have
this advantage than the right of voting. That was one of
his funds. Another would be the produce of the game
certificates. Last year they produced 2,0001. hr that
county that sum would have been better spent among
the poor of Berkshire than in London. Then there was
another consideration, for he was looking to conciliate the
minds of the poorer classes. In former days a poor man
might destroy any wild animal at his pleasure, but now he
could do no such thing. If a poor man saw a rich man
enjoying his spot t, he would say, " All is right: he pays
his Si. ISs. 6d. for fuel-tax, which will keep me warm in
the winter." He would also give the poor the produce of
the dog-tax. When a poor man saw a lady walking with
a fat profile, he was inclined to say, " That dog is better
clothed and fed than I am ;" but he would forget such
notions when he received benefit i❑ the shape of tax from
the dog. This would soften the minds of the lower orders.
Besides, if licences were taken out, that would also be one
of his funds. He would also take the penalties on cuts and
waggons ; and, last of all, he would call upon the clergy
of the Established Church, and also of all Dissenting Con-
gregatisns, to give him four charity sermons a year.—(A
laugh. )—This had made a great impression on his mind,
and he hoped that it would produce still more in other
quarters, when taken up by abler hands than his own.
He thanked the meeting for the attention with which they
had listened to him ; and concluded by reading a petition
for " practical, rational, and efficient Reform in the repre-
sentation of the people in the Commons House of Parlia-
ment." He the❑ moved that the petition be adopted as
the petition of the meeting.
Mr. Ersros; seconded the petition. his flop. Friend,
Mr. Hallett, had detailed his views on various questions of',
hefoim ; he should confine his to a narrower compass.'
He would state at once that he wished to restore the an-
cient Constitution without abandoning its ancient land-
marks. His lion. Friend had entered upon financial
views, and talked of the amount of the national debt.
Now if, 40 years ago, when Mr. Pitt brought forward
his plan of Reform, or afterwards, when Mr. Flood pro-
posed his, in 1790, an efficient Reform had been effected,
we should have heard nothing of the 200,000,000/. of
debt, regarding which his Hon. Friend had spoken, nor
of the enormous amount of taxes which the country had
now to pay. It was indisputable, that if we had had a
rational Reform, we should have had no expensive and
unnecessary wars,—we should have had no frightful and
expensive loans,—we should have had none of that lavish
and profuse expenditure which we had wasted on all the
pauper nations of Europe,—we should have had none of
those innumerable pensions which defaced the Civil List,
—we should have had none of those palaces rising out of
marshy grounds foe none to inhabit,—we should have had
no Lord Camden returning, 160,000/. to the Exchequer,
• for he would never have been placed in a situation to re-
fund such a sum, for he would never have bee❑ allowed to
receive it—( Hear)—we should have had no Prince Leo-
pold receiving .50,000/. a year, for though he would have
received a proper remuneration, he would not have
been paid in that extravagant style. It was unneces-
sary to go further into these details, for they were too
well known to require repeti.ion.—(Hear, hear.)—
He would revert to the old custom of the Constitution—
triennial Parliaments. But before triennial Parliaments.
were restored, he should wish to see many preliminary ar-
rangements. Much ought to be done to reduce the ex.
pence of elections,—much ought to be done to put dow❑
bribery,—much ought to be done to extinguish the evil
influence of corruption. Then came the question of bal-
lot. Oa that question he would not touch at present. He
was not yet prepared to give his assent to it. If it would
introduce a more perfect and more general liberty into
elections, he would give it his support. It would appear
flow what he had already said that he seas friendly to an
effectual, and rational, and practical Reform in Parliament,
anti he was friendly to it because he was an enemy to revo-
lution.—(Cheers.)
Mr. IlAr.err said, that when he had last addressed

them, be had been guilty of a slight omission. lie hail
congratulated the meeting on the acces.ion to power of a
Ministry pledged to Reform. He ought to have gone fur-
ther ; he ought to have congratulated it on possessing a
Sovereign not unfriendly to it.—(Cheers.)—He believed
the people might now say, " We have a friend at Court."
—(Cheers.)—The Ministers had now free scope for action.
There s%ould be no intrigue at Court to displace them.
Mr. 'F. Bowfxs, of Milton-hill, observed that the Bri-

tish Government was said to consist of King, Lords, and
Commons ; but had the country a House of Commons
fully and fairly representing the people ? Between the
people and the House of Commons there should be, as Mr.
Pitt had said in the best days of his best opinions, a com-
plete sympathy. When he had given them a rough sketch
of the detects Of that House as at present constituted, he
thought that they would agree with him that it was so
constituted as not to be a faithful organ of public opinion.
Look at the different classes of our boroughs. In one class
the election is managed by a snug junta, as at Bath where
the elective franchise is confined to the members of the
Corporation. As three-fourths of that Corporation con-
sist of medical men, it is a common saying that the mem-
bers for Bath are returned by a Gallipotocrucy.—(A loud
laugh.)—.ln another class, the Members are nomin .ted
and returned by the aristocrac:„ as at Newark, where Mr.
Sadler is the Member, and the Duke of Newcastle the
patron. In a third class, an individual goes rotted, and
puts it certain sum of money into the pockets of the con-
stituents. This was done at Wallingford, through the
agency of a person called the Miller. In the fourth class
there was an immense population, without a representative,
and in a fifth there were representatives without any
population at all.—(Cheers.)—Now was it to be endured
that the barren walls of Old Sarum, and the grass-grown
streets of Newton, should return representatives to Parlia-
ment, whilst the large and populous towns of Birmingham,
Manchester, and Leeds, were without representatives ?
Having given them a rough sketch of some of the spots
in our representative system, he would coufine himself
within narrower limits for the future, arid look intrely at
some of the abuses in the representation of counties.
Were he to take an extreme case, he would fix upon Core-
wall but he wished to act fairly, and he would therefore
go to the neighbouring county—Surrey. Surrey returned

11 Members to Parliament. There were two for the
county, two for Southwark, and two for Guildford. As
to the manner in which Members were elected in those
places, he had nothing to siy, as they were elected by the
people : but as to the manner in which they were elected
in the other boroughs of that county, he must say a word
or two. Lord Lonsdale returned the two Members fur
Haslemere ; Lord Monson, the two Members for Gatton;
Lord S.rners, oae of the Members for Reigate, and Lord
Hardwicke the other ; and Mr. Russell returned the two
Members for Bletchingley. Thus, out of the 14 Mem-
bers of the county of Surrey, six only represented the opi-
nions of the people, and eight the opinions of those who
nominated them.—(Great cheers.)—Let it never be for-
gotten that the House of Commons was originally consti-
tuted to be a cheek an the Crown, and that it was the
duty of the people to take care that it should not become
an accomplice wills that power which it was intended
to confront, in checking the people. In 1523, Lord
John Russell had brought forward a motion on Par-
liamentary Reform, and in the speech which he made
upon that occasion, he stated that 290 Members of the
House of Commons were chosen by ❑o more than 17,000
elec,ors; that is to say, more than half the representa-
tives of the people of England were returned by a popula-
tion not greater than that of the town of Reading. One
of the objections raised against Parliamentary Reform by
some of its more moderate and candid opponents, who
admit the representative system to be defective in theory,
if, that in practice it is mast excellent. They-produce, as
pruuf of it, our great capital, our manufacturing skill, oar
comparative happiness ; but they east a veil over our

800,000,0001. of debt, and enormous burden of taxation.
The worthy gentleman here took a general review of some
of the most frequent objections to Reform, and observed,
that one of the best reasons for supporting Reform was, its
tendency to prevent revolution. lie was convinced that
the tremendous convulsion which had agitated a neigh-
bouring country would neverhave occurred had the Govern-
ment acceded at an early period to the moderate claims
which were demanded from it. Mr. Canning, who was
doubtless a bitter enemy of Reform, though the promoter
of a liberal policy in other respects, had asked with a
triumphant sneer, at what period of our history had the
nation been better represented than it was at present ? To
that question the late Mr. Ricardo at once answered,
" Never ;" but he added that, though the nation had
been never better represented than at present, there was a
necessity that it should be represented better still, in order
to let the system keep pace with the improved spirit of the
times. That system had been said " to work well." How
it " worked well," he would give them an example. A
nobleman is the proprietor of two boroughs. If he pre-
fers his own interest to the love of his country, Ice goes to
the Minister, places the four votes at his disposal, and then
demands a compensation. The question then is, what is to
be the compensation ? He says, " I have four sons un-
provided for : the eldest must have a commission given him
iu the army ; the second must have a commission in the
navy ; the third is in the church, and must have the first
Crown living that falls vacant ; as to the fourth, he must
have some snug sinecure in the Treasury department, suf-
ficient to maintain him at his ease as a gentleman. " Thus,
in this way, " the system works well :" it " works well"
for the Minister, who gains four votes by it,—it " works
well" for the borough-proprietor, whose family is pro-
vided for by it; but the country,smarting under its wrongs,
raises its indignant voice, and with unanimous shouts calls
for Reform.—(Cheers.) He congratulated the meeting
upon having at last the prospect that that call would not
be in vain ; for the country now ha I a Ministry pledged
to Reform and unsparing retrenchment.—(Cheers.)
Mr. GILCHRIST could not go the lengths of confidence
which the petition was inclined to go, in the present
Ministers, for he knew that those who were Whigs when
out were apt to resemble Tories when in.—(Cheers and
laughter.) And in looking at the doings of the present
Administration, he must say that he had not the confidence
which he could wish to have in Earl Grey. He thought
that men who were pledged, as Ministers were, to the
amelioration of the criminal code, should not have acted on
a blind and barbarous criminal code, the offspring of feudal
ignorance, but ill suited to snore enlightened times, and
have hanged up poor men by the neck until they were
dead.—(Great cheering.) Ile blamed the Administra-
tion for the excessive severity with which they had en•
forced laws which ought not to exist.—(Great cheering.)
Surely, those who spoke so well on the necessity of amend-
ing the criminal laws, should not have enforced laws
which they had often condemned as too severe—(Cheers)
but should have superseded them by milder and suture hu-
mane and snore merciful inflictions.—(Cheery.) The
Administration by their recent conduct had placed itself iu
opposition to the amiable sympathies of a whole people.—
(Cheers. ) If they thought to rule the country in this way,
they Wight as well get a Jefferies from the dead to help
them in a thousand special commissions.—(Cheering,
mingled with a slight hiss.) lie would not dwell upon
the necessity which existed for a Parliamentary Reform ;
every thing proved it. If the people had had a full and
fair representation in the Commons House of Parliament,
should we have had a succession of extravagant and waste-
ful, and profligate Ministers ? Should we have had a
succession of unnecessary, and bloody, and expensive
wars ? Should we, have had an enormous mass of debt
weighing down the nation, cramping all its energies, and
preveuriug the possibility of its restoration to prosperity?
Should we have had such a load of taxes as those which
now oppressed us ? Why, the very light of Heaven is
taxed—windows are taxed, candles are taxed, malt is
taxed, soap is taxed, and bread is taxed.—(A laugh, and
cries of " hear.")—lf we had had a full and fair repre-
sentation of the people, should we have had a tax on malt
and on every other necessary amide of life ? Should we
have had a systetn of laws so framed, that wise men pre-
fer submitting to an injury to seeking redress for it under
a long, tortuous, and an expensive process ?—(Great
cheering.)—Should we have had a criminal code, which
was put to shame by the late proceedings in France, or a
special commission, with all the melancholy scenes which
had preceded and:followed it ?—(Cheers.)—That they
would have a speedy Reform he had no doubt. Lord
Grey was too far pledged not to do something on the sub-
ject very soon ; but that that something would satisfy the
expectations of the people, or that the Reform to be pro-
posed would be an effectual Reform, he was, he con-
fessed, rather disposed to doubt. He had snatched a few
moments just before he came there to scratch down the
heads of the sort of petition which he though ought to be
presented to Parliament. With the permission of the
meeting he would read it to them.—[Here the Hon.
Member read a very long petition, the principal part of
which was occupied with arguments in favour of the sys-
tem of voting by ballot.]—The petition was received with
much cheering.
The Earl of RADNOR. should in any case have been
anxious to address a few words to the meeting before
it separated, but that he was particularly anxious to offer
himself to their notice at that moment in consequence of
the speech they had just heard from Mr. Gilchrist. In a
very great part of that speech he himself concurred, but
in some part of it he did not concur, and his object in
what he had to say to the meeting now, his endeavour
would be to persuade them to adopt the original petition,
and not the amendment of Mr. Gilchrist. Before he
noticed the various topics upon which that gentleman had
touched, he must be allowed to make somewhat of a com-
plaint against Mr. Gilchrist, for his having introduced on
this occasion, and by a side wind, a question of so much
difficulty as that of the infliction of capital punishments
unquestionably was.—(Cheers.)—He entertained opinions,
decided and long made up on the subject of Reform, but
with regard to capital punishmenta, he had not canvassed
that question so long, nor thought upon it so deeply ; and
he was not therefore prepared to give his opinion upon it
in the way in which every man ought to give his opinion
on such a subject. He had to complain, likewise,
of Mr. Gilchrist for the manner in which he had vitupe-
rated the present Administration. For his own part, he
had never been very much inclined to repose great confi-
dence in any set of men. With regard to the present
Administration, he gave to the members of it that confi-
dence which was justified by the personal knowledge he
happened to have of many of the members of it ; and that
confidence would be confirmed or overthrown by time acts
of the Administration.—(Cheers.)—He must say that, in
his opinion, the Ministers were not a little hardly dealt
with when they were stigmatized as cruel and sanguinary
goternors.—(Cheers.)—lt ought not to be forgotten that
the present Administration came into office finding the
country in mutter confusion, and that before they were warns
in their seats they' were called upon for immediate exer-
tions in order to put down riotous and alarming proceed-
ings of great extent. What time, what opportunity, he
would ask, had men so circumstanced to deliberate upon
time question of capital punishments and the reformation
of the criminal code ? They had taken the law as they
found it : they had sent Judges of the land to admiuister
that law ; and those learned persons had passed such sen-
tences as the oaths by which they were bound called upon
them to pass.—(Cheers.)—And now to pass from this
subject, and to come to the petitions before them.
He should choose the moderate petition in preference to
the stronger one, although the latter might be more in
accordance with his sentiments; fur, if lie asked for all he
desired,—fur all that, in his opinion, ought to be granted,
—he should take up a very disadvantageous position :
whereas, by asking only for what was reasonable, he de-
prived the adversaries of the cause of their strongest hold,
and of their most favourite and powerful weapons. The
two petitions before them were in substance the same in
many parts, only the one was more strongly expressed
than the other. Let them, he besought them, consider
in what condition the Ministers were placed. Lord Grey
was not a foolish 1)4911-Lord Grey way 110 t a man em-
barking now for the first time in political transactions ;
no, his Lordship Was a man of ability, of powerful under-
standing, and of acknowledged integrity, and both he and
his colleagues knew, for they had openly declared it, that
the country would not be satisfied without an effectual
Reform. Well, was it nut then the interest of the Minis-
ters to give,or to try to give, to the people such a Reform ?
How else could their Administration stand ? With what
face otherwise could they ask for that, by which alone
they had acknowledged that they could continue in office
—the favour and support of the people?—(Cheers;.
Unless they could persuade themselves that the Ministers
were at once as foolish as dishonest, they must take it for
.;ranted that the Government would attempt at least to
give to the people such a system of Reform as they had
themselves declared would alone satisfy the people. He
might press these considerations upon the ineetieg
with-
out any fear of being misunderstood, for it was, very_ well..
known that be went great lengths on the subject of
form. He had often stated. to them that he was really
alined
ct,r,unl.yi
dee
rreadd ivcoatleßebfyor
itZe would divide
and purity of election—(Cheers)...—and
to
opointion respecting it
laughter.)—
He IftZdt
ss ere made.
in favour of vate by ballot, if a pr
Reformer.—
a(sCeistescers: '3lll
second had expressed his desire of reverting to the old
Ahiguaighnt,,rl,7_wiaisis folcioann.nuFarlieLarliwshmoenst;o.-4.

practices of the Constitution, and that, therefore, he was
favourable to triennial Parliaments ; but his Hon. Friend
should have recollected that the old practice of the Consti-
tution was, not triennial, but annual Parliaments, or ra-
ther sessional Parliaments—Parliaments which were called
together for the occasion, and then dissolved, as at present
they were adjourned and prorogued. This was the old
practice of the Constitution. The idea of proroguing a
Parliament was invented in the time of Henry VIII., and
the Parliament which first enjoyed the fruits of this in-
vention was the Parliament which voted that the King's
Proclamation should have the force of law. This was
enough to sicken him of the invention of those whose in-
genuity produced it. Then, again, he was for universal
suffrage.—(Cheers, and laughter.)—He thought that
every man ought to be represented—ought to vote for
the election of Members of Parliament. The poorer
a man was, the greater his right to this privilege ;
for the poorer a man was, the more he stood in need
of protection. Ile did not, of course, expect that this
would form a part of any plan of Reform that would re-
ceive the assent of the Legislature. However, he did hope
th it the rettea boroughs and self-elected corporations
would be struck off with an unsparing hand. Certainly be,
for one, should not be satisfied without this. Ile had
stated these views of his, in order to show bow far he per-
sonally was inclined to go in Reform, and to prevent his
being misunderstood, when he asked them to agree to the
petition before them. Let them be contented for the
present with what they could attain, and hope for more,
perhaps for the rest, afterwards. These, then, were the
grounds on whieh he supported the petition. Not that
there were not some parts of the petition which, in his
opinion, might be altered. For instance—the petition
said that while men, and science, and knowledge of all
kinds had been advancing, the Constitution had stood still.
Now this he denied : the Constitution had not stood still,
but gone back.—(Cheers and laughter.)—The people
now were not nearly so well represented as they had been
100 years ago. The hare had been going at a great rate,
it was true, but the tortoise had made no way at all; it
had gone on slowly, it had positively stood still. In
moving upon a subject like Reform, it was very possible
that they might leap too far. Many persons were very
nervous on this subject. For his own part, however, he
was for a good jump, and he thought there was a great
deal more probability of their jumping short than of their
jumping too far.—(Cheers.)—(The Noble Lord sat down
amidst loud and general cheering.)
Mr. Moscx would not detain the meeting many rai-
nutes. To universal suffrage, with certain limitations, he
was a friend. He was friendly, also, to vote by ballot—
(Cheers)—but still he was anxious that the petition should
be agreed to without introducing either. If the petition
were carried in its present form, he would propose two
resolutions, with regard to universal suffrage and vote by
ballot ; and thus the opinion of the meeting would be
taken upon these two points. Under these circumstances,
he should advise his friend Mr. Gilchrist to withdraw his
petition.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HALLE"r said, that it was understood that such a
petition should be drawn up as all would agree to ; and
that he was sure that, from the candour which on former
occasions he had observed in Mr. Gilchrist, that gentle-
man would consent to withdraw it.

Mr. Maass( had now lived fifty years in the world, and
for thirty of those years he had been a determined friend
to Reform. He had had the honour of meeting many
gentlemen on this subject, when Reform was by no means
so fashionable as it was now, and when men who ventured
to shake their heads at the Pitt system stood a very good
chance of having those heads knocked off their shoulders.
—(Cheers and laughter.) But now, if they excepted the
head of the late Administration, no one was found bold
enough to say that there should be no Reform. As to the
details of any plan of Reform, there would of course be dif-
ferences of opinion with regard to them. The rich were
very timid on this subject, because they had much to lose.
Now as be happened to be a poor man, he, of course, was
very bold upon the subject, and felt no fear at all.—
(Cheers and laughter.) He must, however, say that this
nation had, for a long time past, been too much in the habit
of paying deference to large masses of wealth, and of taking
it for granted that if a man had 10,000/. a year he was a
wise man, and that, whether good or bad, he must make a
very fit representative of the people, —nay, not only a fit
representative himself, but that he was qualified also to dic-
tate to others whom they ought to send to Parliament.
Now this he contended to be the very reverse of the Con-
stitution ; for one of the first principles of the Constitu-
tion was to afford protection to the poor man against op-
pression, by a system of fair representation in Parliament.
He liked Mr. Gilchrist's courage and independence very
much, and as truth was generally the result of collision of
sentiments, he did not regret the manner in which Mr.
Gilchrist had come forward to-day. They all knew the
recommendation which Lord Chesterfield gave his son,—
suaviter iu modo—fortiter in re ; and probably Mr.
Hallet might, in drawing up this petition, have had too
touch of the suavitcr in modo, at least in Mr. Gilchrist's
opinion, although Mr. Hallet had never been much given
to be mealy-mouthed. —(Cheers and laughter.) The fact
was, that between Mr. Hallet and Mr. Gilchrist the dif-
ference was wholly iu the manner, and in nothing else.—
Mr. Hallet knocked gently at the door of the House of
Commons, and, walking up to the table in minuet step, said,
" Gentlemen,—worthy gentlemen,—honourable gentle-
men,—be good eriough, we pray you, to lay aside this
machine of corruption."—(Cheers and laughter.) But,
on the other hand, Mr. Gilchrist bangs rudely atahe door,
and flourishing a sledge-hammer, says, " Conie—out with
your thrashing-machine, fur I am come to break it."—
(Much laughter.) lids was a difference nut worth men-
, tioning. He liked the present candid and manly way of
voting ; but, knowing the ruinous consequences arising from
it, he was now an advocate for the ballot.— (Cheers.)
Mr. GILCHRIST-After the candid and explicit remarks
which he had that day heard from various speakers, had no
objection to withdraw his amendment. He was sorry
that among our Nobility the Earl of Radnor stood alone
in this virtuous and patriotic career. Nu man could act
as that illustrious Nobleman bad acted, without securing
to himself the (stem and affection of all the best-judging
and best-thinking men.—(Cheers.) Were all our Nobles
such as be, they would live in the hearts of the people,
and would have no occasion to seek protectiou either from
a constabulary force or an armed yeomanry.—(Cheers.)
Ile felt bound to submit to any suggestion coining from
so enlightened and so patriotic a Nobleman.—(Cheers )
The petition of Mi. Millet was then put by the High
Sheriff, and carried unanimously.
On the motion of Mr. Hafer'', the High Sheriff was
requested to sign it on behalf of the meeting.
On the notion of Mr. MoNcx, the two Members for the
county were desired to present and support the petition
when presented to the House of Commons.
Mr. DUNDAS should have great pleasure in presenting
and supporting the petition in the House of Conmins.
Mr. R. PALMER said, that after all that had been said
on the details of Reform, it was only necessary for him to
say at present that he thought it most desirable that.the
great manufacturing towns should he represented in
Parliament. It was unnecessary, he hoped, for Limn to
say, that he should feel great pleasure in presenting this
petition.
The motion was then put and carried.

lea il although L:: slacionsideration '
Mr. poxes, after congr,tulating the meeting upon the
unanimityetloiantn ei ee:
elia
had now
iiwhichttilititl
to
scaaml
call their
pe
subject,
atti ttieonbutui
attention
upon
oobnae esn,7iitct
eitr carried,iowf
cdoestitsali
di(
detail
not, and did not, of course, expect the same coincidence
'object,
tels'er. t.. h'
j
of opinion. The nature of his resolution was this—
namely, that the wages of labour being property, and
property quite as much taxed as the profits of trade and
the rents of I ind, ought to receive equal protection. Now
protection could be given only by representation, and he
should propose, tkerefore, that a certain number of the re-
presentatives of the people—not exitnciteleiedii.Gteitbr,ro::rtoini.roen:fao.nr, elvabc(l)l
county, or one hundred in the whole—should be chosen by
universal suffrage. He had already told them that he was
not friendly to universal suffrage in its utmost extent. lie
agreed that number s ought not to be the basis of repre-
sentation; but in conceding this he must contend that
property ought not either to be the basis of representation
to the exclusion of all consideration of numbers. Ile need
hardly remind the meeting that the wages of labour were
as valuable to those who earned them as any gentleman s
e‘ts,otartde
property,u'a s to him
an d;
quiteth at tahse ynn weremuch
i e n
any other species of property. The Hon. sentsectoiofntialse
s
and Mr. Alonck to differ,
as
he
libe"ttwseaeynttheyni wasponnot in
t‘nvaosvelr
the resolution.
rcehseoeiruedionth.roughout his speech,h,e liiiednufountahliliy
principle,
it would be better not to take
now, but to meet and debate
it upon some future occasion. .
Mr. Bunn seconded the resolution.
loNcr felt himself bound in prudence to with.
but
enough, and in his opinion
draw the resolution, as he perceived that it was hardly
likely to be favourably received.
The resohition was then withdrawn.

Mr. Athat he had no to call the attention
of the
,nlencN
p'g said,to w.
al resolution on the subject of vote by
cheering.)—He would not detain them by
any arguments in favour of vote by ballot, but content
Ithsiself with observing, that he had never yet heard more
'than two objections to it. The tint was, that it was an

un-English, sneaking, and degrading system, and I
tended to make men hypocrites. Let him, heweve'
what could he more hypocritical, what more degr
than the scenes which, under the present system'
every day witnessed at elections, where men were bi
up to vote for candidates whom they detested, t
whom they were compelled to give their suffrages, b
they would nut stand against the power of some rich)
hour, or landlord, or customer, who first called thei
grateful, and then reduced them to poverty, if 61
tared to vote accerding to the dictates of their col°-
-(Cheers.)—lt was quite clear that one of tor°
must 1) done—either the franchise must be exten,,;

tee II
been poi
Them,
The
heu bein
that he i
Pretnotinl
feeling
lag by w,
although
the dam
there not
Properly
objects,
ally than]
stowed u,
On the
for the
[treat entl
earl of I
The in

he had just proposed, or they must give the poor 0
tectiou of the ballot. He apprehended that it Neale
be said that there was any thing new in this prO:
of voting by ballot, though that mole of taking v°
certainly not yet been applied to elections for MOMt
Parliament in this country. In the ancient free rey
a similar plan of voting was followed, and the
the good of those times never fancied that there ses.
thing degrading in the practice. Cicero himself, in'
ing of his own election to the consulship, so far ft°
presenting it as humiliating, declared that the 0o
secret voting was the only thing that could make in 4
,
dependent. Another objection to vote by ballot 1,
it would destroy the fair influence of wealth I°
He totally denied this assertion. On the contrarY,hi
lieved that the introduction of vote by ballot Witt!'
the character of our aristocracy, by showing
utility of wealth and station when unaccompanied
tue and good conduct.—(Choeri.)—The Hon.
e,
man then concluded by moving a resolution to tl!i;
that vote by ballot was the surest means of proYiv'.
the free and independent exercise of the elective Pet,
Mr. EYSTON opposed the resolution. He was sit,
of a club, at which a gentleman very well koctti
meant Mr. O'Connell,—was black-balled, and be;
never forget the intrigues which were set on foot
out who put in those black balls. The saute intr
to find out how people had voted would, he tv
follow every election.
Mr. MARSH supported the resolution, observiel
it had been found to answer extremely well in
and that the late successes of the people of Frafie",,
never have been achieved without the right of secreto;
Had it not been! for vote by ballot in France, Pr' to
lignac would have been Prime Minister still, and 0,00-
head would not have been where it was-on his
Mr. R. PALMER. was not at all satisfied thsei
ballot would be productive of the benefits that 1' 0
described as likely to result from it. It was lid
that it might check individual bribery, but he tb();f,
likely that bribery by the wholesale would still be
on in spite of the ballot. AR at present advised, t,;
certainly vote against a proposition for taking
ballot, it it were brought forward in the House of C'''ot
and he thought it right to state this publicly. ge tr
that a man who would oppress another for voting?
ing to his conscience, deserved the strongest rel),v
and he could appeal to all who heard him, ifl'e
had ever used undue influence in much a matter/
of " No, no." "No one accuses you.")
Mr. Gmcmaisr defended the vote by ballot.
The Earl of RADNOR expressed his general cePc
in the arguments which Mr. Gilchrist had egi
the petition which he had so handsomely WI
What was it that the people of England wisherl,3fi
by the system of ballot ?—That every man shoe')
he liked, without fear on the one hand, and witVi,
tion on the other. How was that point to be
There were some men inclined to punish every Peed yy
pendent on them who did not vote as they pleat
was the power of such men to be frustrated? J

'n favoui
vocated b
offer a fe
that thol
b 'Hot n„
,
salutary

Friend (Mr. Eyston) said that he despised the 2'
exereiseil such power. He (Lord Radnor) desPoet:
too; but iu spite of the contempt of them both' I",
would exercise such power. They were theretbool
to do all in their power to protect the poor matt fr)
oppression.—(Cheers.)—There were other pe
that
eatrileyeb
revixobitesert
yb.wy
without
ouwtt he would
la! ialbrtlrkyi
b,pelormyt
w?a ne
oeidnire:Aorlji
were inclined to bribe needy voters. Mr. Palinerjai
brib
i
dividual
that it would put a stop both to general and to '
bribery. It was said that the Cv.tem was "'Yerei
Indeed ! Why, it was that which all of them 'Cat
every day. There was not a club in England.:ie
it was not practised every day. The reason of
evident to require explanation. With resPe`,
blackballing of Mr. O'Connell, it never could 10J,
discovered who had blackballed him if they had p.
enough to keep their own secret. In conclusion' iv',
that as the arguments in favour of the ballot Wel 0
he should certainly hold up his hand in favour e
solution.
rep
Mr. WruarE proposed, ass an amendment, 3,"
to this effect—" That no Reform could be pra'
tional, and efficient, without the vote by ballot. oaf.
Mr. RIGBY seconded the amendment. 'Meal
kept under controul the desire of the East
to job so much as the ballot. If the vote hY".,elie
existed at Newark, Mr. Sadler would not 4
Member ; and the noble patron of the borough °:(01'
given notice to all his tenants to quit, for he al"
have known who did vote for his nominee,
against him. d.
Mr. FYSIIE PALMEit said that for many
found it difficult to reconcile himself to vote ;11.
and he had for a long time thought that
would go up to the hustings, despising alike
your, and voting according as their conscieve pi,
them. At his first election at that place, bi',4llel'i
this subject were a little shaken—(Hear, and
and, at his second election, lie became convioee4 stet
by ballot was the way in which the independfci,
of the elective franchise could be secured.---q
He was now as favourable to vote by ballot as t°olr:
of what he believed to be essential points of thi'rial''
question. He could state from his own Wetacc
under the present system a man frequently ran.
being ruined if he exercised independently th''
ledged and valuable right, and be was free to lir,
if it were offered to hint to have vote by ballot O.se re!
dition that the statutes against bribery should.no,
he would say at once, and without hesitat:o 0
your bribery acts and welcome, so that you .1
by ballot."—(Cheers.)
s";•
Mr. C. Russet'. said, that they now alit're os;
question of Reform under very dithirent
those which had formerly surrounded it. tote'
longer a party measure, but it was broughtdieal
Government on a firm conviction of its exPete
they had been assured that a measure of Retnr:ei,
introduced upon that responsibility which atts‘b3ll';
advisers of the Crown.—(Cries of
" Ballots
cif
He would come to the ballot presently. Olt:, ti
bog extract from one of Earl Grey's sPeeLof
form, the Hon. Member said that a measnre tot,
founded on such principles, and likely to lead
sults as were descibed by his Lordship in that
would most gladly give his support.—(Cris % -it
ballot.") As to the system of vote by ballt)-I,ll'
vary good, or it might be very bad—(Hisses eiltl
—but in his opinion it would not frail to the joo:
the supporters of it expected. All, however' of
mit that it was a very great novelty.---(C1.,1:0 tir'
it won't suit you,")—that was au innova", ot.
Constitution, and not merely a reparation °L0,0(4
opinion the wisest course would be to leave rest;
a measure of Reform to the Government, f
themselves, of course, the right of judging °
when brought forward.
Mr. MoNcK expressed his readiness tO ot'a'
amendment superseding his resolution• 1-0'
cues between the two was, that the amendine
strongly worded.
olun
he Hum Starairr then put the 111,, f 0
was carried amidst loud acclamations, on"I
being held up against it. 9,Atr.
Mr. BUDD said that Mr. Dallis bad relief' 1
dog—(Laughter)—and they wanted soute ono tbeof
word "Reform" upon his chair at an
speak, to press the opinions of the county uli;oe
county for
Mr. Dundas (continued the Hon. Gent.) .00;
,
many years, brit lie had alsOr e
few months after he said to me, " You retorNr
reformers," said I; "why arn't you a rou'r
said he, " not one of your kind of reforn°t.
and laughter.) his gad
PJ
Mr. C. DUNDAS said that the fact watts
Mr. Budd, was a radical reformer, and verY
certainly was not. Mr. Budd knew this i'vith 0.
this was what Mr. Budd complained Oft 0.-ohs
vote by ballot, he would state now, lest 313.Yptioll
hereafter accuse him of practising deL;; aetti
subject, that although he had heard a g°.° d op°,,t'of
ballot, had not yet made up his Itnt2lin
would, however, give it the best considerao P
04.50
old he assured them that when the subleilL vote
teforc the House of Commons, he Al"

P.B*
)tra of tl
They ar
Conatituei
Newca

cording to his conscience. - tati/
ac
Mr. MoNcK said, that now that tile rjt,i .ef
,petting the vote by ballot had been cavil' iro,,'
tion, he had next to propose to theta another 0,,
Walter, Esq., the High Sheriff,
he had no doubt would be received in tbe otejo
,:,
vote he should propose was a vote of 060,110,,;!
svhich he acceded to the desire of the rolul'
for the !.eitioVi

er pePi
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an coi
(1
iv cool
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ras ere,
hero 4,
igland,to
m of 1.,
resPe'.
aould
y ha Qf
!11910110
of roef I)!
VOUr

ultt $ tid'
ie prsoe
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1409
;e bY
t b$1100!
)ugb 1100,;
or be id

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