The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-14 00:00:00

coasting trade, all ty the alarm that bad
been ft lt among the sea-faring population of this country,
and also the danger that was anticipated to the revenue
by allowing foreigners to participate in the coasting trade
of this country. Afterimaturely considering the question
he bad come to a conclusion which he trusted

would meet with the approbation of the House, and
would have its effect, if adopted, of not exposing
the revenue to any danger, or excite any alarm.
There were two branches of the coasting trade to
which he had turned his attention particularly; the
one was steam navigation, with which he did
not think it possible foreigners could compete
with this country. He proposed to maintain that de-
scription of coasting trade which existed in going to and
fro from port to port entirely in this country; and any
restrictions that he proposed to abolish with respect to
foreigners: lie also proposed to put an end to with
respect to English vessels—he intended to allow
either English or foreign vessels to touch at Bri-
tish ports if they were bouud for abroad. He thought
it desirable that such facility should be given to
the coasting-trade of the coantry. The altera-
tions he had adverted to were the only alte-
rations of any consequence he proposed to
make in the measure he had laid before
the House in the course of last session. There were
some minor alterations in the Bill, but it was un-
necessary for him to advert to them then, as they
would be fully considered by the Committee. There
were many points raised on the discussion last year to
which he would not then advert, because there seemed
to be a general desire that the resolution he intended to
propose should be agreed to, in order that it might be
considered in Committee.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON wished to know whether
it was the intention of the Government to endeavour to
enter into any understanding with America on this
subject.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that in a conversation he
had had with the American Minister, Mr. Ban-
croft, that gentleman had stated that he
considered it most desirable that a convention
relative to the coasting trade should be concluded with
America and England, and that if such a conven-
tion was drawn up he would sign it to-morrow.
—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Bancroft had further stated
to him that he was willing to throw open the coasting
trade in the modified manner he (Mr. Labouchere) bad
stated to the House.—(Hear, hear.) He could only
conclude by assuring the House that if he
believed that the safety, honour, and welfare of this
country would be put in jeopardy by the measure he
would be the last man to bring it forward, or give it his
support, but feeling-econvinced that it would abolish
xis: less restrictions, recruit the maritime strength of the
country, and tend to its security, he had no hesitation
in bringing the measure forward, end he felt as little
doubt that it would meet with the approbation of
the House.—(Hear, hear.) In particular,:he entreated
the House to consider the situation in which they stood
with respect to the colonies, and asked them no; to delay
the question which was now brought forward for
their conaideration.—(Hear, hear.) He had been much
gratified by the assurance given by the Right
Honourable Member for Stamford that he
did not intend to resist the resolution he proposed,
in the first instance. In conclusion, he trusted that the
measure he proposed would give stability to the commerce
of this country and contentment to the colonies. There
were two subjects to which be had promised to allude
but which he bad inadvertently forgotten. One was
with respect to the light dues; on that subject he into nded
to re-introduce the Bill he had brought forward last ses-
sion, with some slight alterations, and he was in hopes
that he should be able to pass it during the present
session. The other subject was with respect
to the Merchant Seamen's Fund. To-ere was no
question, in his of inion, connected with the mercantile
marine of the country. tmore important than :that.—
(Hear, hear.) He was sorry to say that the Merchant
Seamen's Fund was at present insolvent. He had
introduced a Bill on this subject during the last session
founded upon the report of tee Commissioners that had
been appointed to investigate the question. The recep-
tion that measure hack) mat with in that House was
not such as to induce him to persevere in that
Bill, but he had- since considered it to be his duty to
reconsider the subject, and ho was in hopes that he
should be able in the course of the present session to
introduce a measure very different from that of last year
upon the subject, and that at an early period of the
session.—(Hear, hear.) An Hon. Friend of his, one of
the Lords of the Admiralty, had considered the
subject of the measurement of ships, and he was in hopes
that in the present session he would be enabled to intro-
duce a measure which would put an end to the objections
that had been taken on that subject.—(Bear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by stating that
the resolution he intended to move was slightly
modified from last year, the only alteration he
proposed in it being—" And to amend the laws relating
to the coasting trade of the United Kingdom."
Mr. HERRIES thought the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite had placed him in a situation of some
embarrassment as to the course he ought to pursue.
It was generally understood iii the last session that
this question should be so placed, that during
the present session, they should begin the discussion
where they left off last. He thought that the House
would pursue a wise course if they postponed, till the
second reading ,of the Bill, the main question to be
considered in the present case.—(Hear.) He thought
Members had some ground of complaint against the Go-
vernment for they course the had pursued in refusing
information to Members while it was given to
other parties.---(llear, hear.) He was in hopes, from
all he had heard, that the Right Honourable Gentleman
would have been ready to take a step much more
in the right direction than that which he had done,
and that the alteration he had intended to pro-
pose in the resolution brought forward last year would
have been much more effectual. Now, he thought
that that was essentially right. An English ship could
not load on the coast of America for a voyage,
say to California, a distance of 10,000 miles, under the
denomination of a coasting trade. He did not see why
the exclusive advantages that we now enjoy should
all be abandoned for a merely suppositious ad-
vantage—for it should be remembered that this
measure had not respect to America alone,

but to every. c3untry with which we have
commercial relations. The only benefit which was re-
tained, or rather proposed to be retained, was the right,

in the event of oiler countries not giving- equal advan-
tages in return, of imposing retaliatory measures. But
was this benefit at all likely to be retained ? Judging
from what had already transpired he should say cer-
tainly not, for the system which they pursued was de-
cidedly progressive. Let them see if any other
countries had shown the slightest disposition
to return the favour which we were gratuitously
conferring. What had been the conduct of France?
Why, at this very moment France was deeply engaged
in carrying out their restrictive measures, and when ap-
plied to to grant reciprocal advantages to this country,
the French Minister coolly and very properly replied by
the question—On what ground do you ask us to do this?
You have candidly acknowledged that the reduction of
your duties was made solely for your own benefit, and
, wherefore, then, shotiferwe on any ground of gratitude,
give you these reciprocal advantages? _ We may be un-
fortunate in not taking yourview of the matter; but in the
meantime we mean to take care of ourselves.-
-(Hear, hear, from both sides of the House.) Well,
and this was virtually the reply of every other Minister
to which application had been made for international
treaties.—(Hear, hear.) Then, with regard to the West
India islands, on what basis had they any right to ground
a hope that the West India colonists• would be induced
to employ British shipping in preference to that of
America or any, other country ? None at all.
By the very principle which they had adopted
they had made the slave-grown sugar equal, in
respect of privilege, to that of our own islands—
they bad destroyed the trade of those islands, and had
actually consigned them to absolute ruin.—(Hear, hear.)
Then as to Canada, what had been done there?—[Mr.
Labouchere interposed the remark, that what had been
done was under the advice of Lord Elgin.] Lord Elgin!
and was Lord Elgiu's opinion to be weighed against the
opinion of the whole of the Canadian population, and
against the force of the principle of the navigation-
laws?—(Hear,) The Canadians were decidedly opposed
to the principles which were being adopted by the present
Government. They had been treating the matter as if it
were only a mere item, of commercial concern. This
was a great mistake.—(Hear, beat.) It was a matter
of large national, nay, be might say, of vitally_ national
interest.—(Hear, hear.) This qustion was to be decided
upon the fundamental principle of the navigation-laws;
that principle was the protection of the national mercan-
tile marine—(Hear, hear)—and he should contend that
by the full exercise of that principle could they ever an-
ticipate retaining that superiority which is necessary to
us as a commercial nation. That great man whose high
merit every man of the commonest candour would Allow
—that great man, General Washit gton, had taken this
matter into his deepest and most mature consideration,
and the deliberate result of that consideration was con-
tained in the recommendation which be had given to
Congress. (The Right lion. Gentleman:then read an
extract from one of the General's messages to Congress,
in which he stated that in his opinion it was a mistake to
suppose that the duties laid on for the protection of a
mercantile navy was any burden upon the people to
whom the shipping belonged. He also read an extract
from the report made by the last Committee which
sat upon the subject of the navigation-laws, in which Mr.
Gladstone appears to say, that, in his opinion, protec-
tion to British shipping - ought to be retained, and
that the navy had derived its best and
most hardy seamen from the mercantile marine.)
He would not consent to any alteration of the law which
gave foreigners the same advantages that we
possessed ourselves. With respect to maritime
intercourse with the colonies, no other nation
could give us an equivalent for any advantages
the present measure proposed to give to them, and there-
fore he considered no other nation ought to think of
interfering with us and our colonies. Instead of the
consumer obtaining any advantage by the passing
of the measure, he was of opinion that they would not
gain a single farthing. The poor consumer would get
nothing, but he was always put forward by the capitalist
and the great dealer when it suited their own pur-
poses to do so. He was not prepared to concede
the exclusive privilege which we now possessed
of naviga ion to our colonies to foreigners.
Hecame to the next head—the long-voyage trade—and
he had to express his decided objection to the surrender
of those privileges which this country now possessed.
The principle laid down by the present law was
to secure to this country the carriage of com-
modities from three parts of the world, viz., Asia,
Africa, and America, and with that foreigners could
have nothing to do. They might themselves forbid us
to partake in the long-voyage trade with their ports.
No country was so fitted for a place of deposit tor
commodities from all countries as England. With
respect to the commerce of
Zurope, the cue Wee CU.

thinly more easy, and notavithstandieg what had been said t which it was stated that a good deal of English capital
on the subject he still -thought that the principle of had been embarked in foreign shipping. The lion.
reciprocity was not only more applicable, but was cepa- Gentleman the Member fur Montrose attributed that
ble of enlargement. lle had hit upon a passage which to the existence of these absurd navigatiou-laws. Now,
was applicable to the present question from Huskisson, t what was the extract which his Right Honorable
and in alluding to it he could not retrain from saying that Friend read to the House ? It did not elate
it would have been well if those who sometimes pro- that British capital was embarked generally
fessed to have so much respect for that authority had lin foreign shipping, but it was embarked
advocated and abided by his policy.—(Hear.) Mr. largely in foreign shipping of a country where recipro-
Huskisson slid he could not, in alluding to the United city treaties Existed, that was to say, that in those noun-
States is a British House of Commons, think it was tries where they had relaxed the navigation-laws,
improper to say that in matters of navigation and maxi- the consequence which the Protectionists said
time power there existed a spirit of rivalry—a spirit of was likely to result had already resulted to
which he did not complain, but he doubted • a great extent, and still the Honourable Member
the wisdom of any measure that was calculated ; for Montrose gets up and says, it is all the consequence
to give any advantage to the commercial resources uf ' of the navigation I,ws. The Hon. Gentleman who had
America. He (Mr. Herries) would ask the House if a just sat down asked them to explain how it was that
capitalist would employ an English ship when a foreign I they supported these laws. He couldteot tell him. It
vessel would answer all his purposes at a cheaper rate ? ; was a remarkable fact, that in all countries where
It was for the defence of this; country and: the mainte- reciprocity existed British shippo,g had de-
nance of that, withoutiwhich it would cease to be what clined ; and how was it so ? Why, simply
it was, that protection had been afforded to our navy. be cause there the British shipowner could not compete
He could not but regret that, in collecting evidence upon ; with the fureiguers, and he sought a more profitable
the subject of the navigation-laws, there had been an occupation for his vessels elsewhere. Now that was
evident desire to disparage the character of British precisely the reason why he opposed these resolutions.
seamen.—(Hear, hear.) It was said they were Pass them and they would at once shut out the British
the worst seamen and the most difficult to trader from ports and seas where the foreigner had a
manage, but three parts of the assertions greater advantage.—(Hear, hear.)
which were made were wholly without foundation.— Mr. RICARDO believed it was understood at the
(Hear, hear.) One of her Majesty's consuls had stated commencement of the debate that these resolutions were
that the effect of a repeal of these laws would be to in- to pass without a division, and the discussion was to
crease the investment of British capital in foreign be reserved for the second reading. Under these cir-
vessels, and thus lead to diminish the employ- cumstances he would abstain from entering into
ment of shipwrights, rope makers, chain and I the details of the question then, but he could not help
anchor makers, and every body of mechanics whose 1 rising to say, that from all he had heard from Honour-
occupation depended upon the construction and ; able Gentlemen opposite he could not collect what prin-
building of vessels.EThere could be no doubt that if this ciple they were going upon in opposing this measure.—
Bill passed the capital of British shipowners would be (Hear, hear.) The Honourable Gentleman the Member
transferred to other countries.—(Hear, hear.) He had ' for Stamford had already declared if they ob-
confined himself to the principles of the Bill, tamed reciprocal concessions from foreign coun-
not being desirous at present to enter into the tries he would have no objection whatever
details, but could not allow the opportunity to pass to the measure. The Right Hon. Gentleman declared
without declaring that the weal or woe of our mercan- that if the coasting trade of this country could be re-
tile navy depended upon the decision which the House laxed, he, at least, would not object to it, it the United
might come to upon it. The Hon. Genleman concluded , States did the same. The Hon. Gentleman the Member
by stating that he was compelled upon the groundsstated for Westmoreland, upon the last occasion when this
to give to the proposition his determined and most question was debated, declared himself in fa-
strenuous opposition.—(Cheers.) your of some relaxation in favour of what was
Mr. HENRY DRUMMOND said there was a great called the long voyage, and the lion. Gentleman the
deal of misapprehension out of doors as to the real na- Member for Sunderland had declared that he was quite
titre and object of the measure, and possibly that mis- I willing that the crews of ,British ships should be com-
apprehension might be shared in by Honour- posed of the sailors of any country. Now, with all these
able Members. To translate, however, official jargon y relaxations, what became of the fundamental principle
into plain honest English, he would simply say that this of the Right Honouralbe Gentleman opposite? It
was the last of a series of measures of the Manchester it meant anything it meant this, "so long as
school, the end and intention of which was to discharge you make conditions, by which foreign ships and foreign
all British labour and employ for the future foreign sailors are enabled to sail upon equal, and no better,
labour.—(Loud cheers.) They were to have foreign terms than the British ship, I don't care what becomes
timber for English timber, foreign shipwrights lof the navigation-laws." It meant that certainly, and
instead of English ones, and he might go through the hence the fundamental principle fell to the ground.—
whole catalogue of labour, and say the same of each (Hear, hear.) Well, then, it was admitting that the
kind; and for what was all this done but for the advan- the navigation-laws were the bane of commerce ;
tage of mercantile men, and for the advantage of Man- but then it was said, if you relax them
chester cotton spinners.—(Cheers.) It should not be his you destroy the royal navy, and the service would be
fault if the country did not understand the true meaning I less able to defend the country against the foreigner.
of the question from one end of it to the other. He That argument came with an ill grace from the ship-
considered it was merely a question of trade and con- owners, who were constantly complaining of the system
merce connected with our marine, and it essentially and of apprenticeship and of the light dues. But if the
much more clearly effected the condition of labourers Protectionists rested their opposition upon that
than any other question could do. ground, he must be allowed to say that the
Mr. HUME said he had heard many statements navigation-laws afforded too much or too little restric-
in that House with respect to the navigation-laws, but tion. The navy, it was admitted, was in a less
what had fallen from the Hon. Member who had just efficient state now than it had ever been before,
sat down had surprised him beyond measure. He and, therefore, the navigation-laws did not pre-
undertook to say that it was the last of a series of mea- serve the navy, or they did not sufficiently restrict
sures brought in by the Manchester school, and that the shipping trade to secure such preservation.
they all tended to the injury of labouring men. But he would not detain the House by going into de-
But how could that be reconciled with the assertion of tails. He must say, however, that it would be much
those who said that the food or labouring men had been better for th, m if, instead of resting contented with an
reduced by the navigation-laws.—(Hear, hear.) What inferior navy, and endeavouring to bring down other
was more important than that the labouring classes countries to their level, to make an effort to
should be able to get food of all kinds, and at a mode- raise the position of their own country by
rate price.—(Hear, hear.) removing the restrictions which pressed so heavily upon
An Hoer. MEMBER—But the question of wages.— she shipping interest. It was much better to depend
(Laughter and cheers.) upon the energies of Englishmen in a time of trial, than
Mr. HUME—WeII, he would come to the question of to wait till the foreigner went with them berore they
wages. He had certainly heard within these last few made an effort to extt nd the trade and commerce of their
days, and it was with great regret, that in the south of own country.—(Hear, hear.)
England the wages of labourers had been redaced from Alderman THOMPSON said, agreeably to the un-
e Bs. and 7s.—(Hear, hear.) But what was it derstandiug to which the Hon. Gentleman who had just
that increased wages but increased employment?— sat down• had referred, he should confine himself now
(Hear, hear.) And the way to effect that °eject ito only one or two passing observations. The Hon.
was to bring the greatest amount possible of trade and I Gentleman had asked the opponents of this measure what
commerce to this country.—(Hear, hear.) Tne Hon. it was they wanted. He would tell the lion. Gentleman
Gentleman opposite (Mr. Herries) had stated that no what it was in a few words. To use a commercial
place was so well calculated ter a depot for the phrase—they wanted a valuable consideration for the
trade of the world as England, but what had kept advantage they were going to surrender to the fo-
it from being so but those laws?—(Hear, hear.) I reigner. In fact, they wanted a reciprocal concession
If they wanted any proof, let them take the assertion of made to them by all those nations in whose
that Hon. Gentleman, when he said that the capital of favour they relaxed these laws. (Hear, hear.)
the country was so restrained by the navigation-laws As his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Stamford
that we were obliged to employ English capital (Mr. Herries) had clearly proved this measure could
almost in every part of the world.—(Hear, hear.) only be productive of advantage to other countries
What was wanted was, that the English shipowner should and be of none at all to this. Then if they
be permitted to carry his goods in English as well as looked at the conduct of Spain and Sicily
foreign ships. The tarts stated by the Hon. Member for with respect to their cwn colonies, they would see that
Stamford (Mr.lllerries) had been repeated over and over the measure of protection was precisely that afforded in
again, if they had not been repeated by himself, which he the mother country. Two ships were waiting for a lading
(Mr. Hume) believed they hid. This country had too long in a Spanish colony, and the Spanish ship readily ob-
been a sufferer by these laws, as well as all other mono- Weed a full cargo at the rate of 51. per ton, while
polies. But if they had been repeated the American a fine English ship then lying alongside could obtain no
navy would not have been one half its present extent. freightage whatever, although the master only asked 255.
Ho considered that their repeal would relieve and pro- a ton, and this was owing to the fact that the dues pay-
fitably employ capital, and demand, as a natural conse- able by the latter ship were so heavy that it was better to
quence, the increased employment :of the people.— export in the Spanish than in the British ship. Then,
(Hear, hear.) France was no argument in fa- with regard to coal, of which a great quantity is sent to
your of the continuation of these laws since ' France, and upon which a very heavy duty was imposed
if she did not alter her policy she would, lose in French ports, we made such a difference in favour
the little navy that she had. France was a beacon held of French vessels abroad, that coal absolutely taken
out to us as a guide. There was nothing in our met- to a British possession, Malta, was obliged to
chants or shipwrights that would prevent them from be imported in French bottoms to gain a cheap ad-
freely competing with the whole world if mittance for the use of our own steamers. Much in-
these laws were removed from the statute books. quiry had been mede by the Committee into
He denied the calumny cast upon his countrymen, that the respective duties levied upon ships trading
they were not competent to compete in the way he had to Montreal and New York, and the amount of
mentioned. They had been informed, through expense for internal conveyance between the two places;
Mr. Bancroft, that America would reciprocate any and such was the extent of that difference, that it was
course that this country might adopt with respect to found better to import at New York, and carry the
these laws. An Honourable Member bad said goods internally through the States than go direct
America had not repeal, d her navigation-laws. She to Montreal. And the same thing held
had not, because this country had not done so. Then with regard to that great depot Bermuda.
the course of misgovernment that had been pursued to- The Hon. Gentleman then read a private communication
wards the;colonies had ruined thousands; it was due, there- from Mr. Wigram, whose eminence as a ship builder was
fore, to them to repeal those laws; and he thanked the well known. to show that the duty paid upon oak
Governments for comings forward with this Bill at an timber in British ports, when prepared for ship-
early instead of a later period of the session, and trusted building, was such that although that kind
they would day by day push it on in order that it might of timber was actually dearer in itself at New York than
become law with the least possible delay. The abolition in England, the duties were such that the whole of the
of the lighthouse system he hoped would follow in their benefit for ship building purposes was thrown into
wake.—(Hear, hear.) the hands of the American builder. After all,
Mr. BANKES asked the Hon. Member for Montrose he then continued, this was no more the shipbuilders'
this question—how were the labourers of this country or shipowners' question. It was a great national question.
to obtain food, even at its low price, if they had no and he would cite the evidence of the most eminent
wages wherewith to buy it ?—(Protectionist cheers.) authorities in the navy to show the evil effect which
The labourers of America were intelligent, but those of would certainly ensue if protection were to be done
this country were just the reverse ; and yet these were t away with. He then proceeded to read extracts
the men whom he wished to supersede by superior tin support of his position from the evidence of
competition, the incompetent labourers of this country. I the Admiral of the Fleet, Sir Byam Martin, Sir James
He agreed with the Hon. Meeiber for .Surrey (Mr. Stirling, and other officers, and concluded by saying
Drummond) that this measure was the " last of a that, on these several grounds, he should oppose to the
series" which had been directed against the la- utmost the doing away with the protection to the ship-
bouring classes ; for he knew of no other injury ping interest.
they could inflict upon them. He advised the co- Mr. MITCHELL said there had been two
lonies to wait, since public opinion had set in such gross fallacies broached on the Opposition side
against the free-trade policy; the time was not far distant ,of the House, that he could not help noticing them, espe-
when he confidently believed the Houses would retrace cially as they had been endorsed by the Hon. Alderman
its steps. He challenged any Members connected with opposite. The first of these relate es was the over-
the.manufacturing districts to rise and say that the trader sight altogether of the advantages which accrued to the
was satisfied with the free-trade measures. Nay, he consumer from the reduction of the duties. It had
would go further, and ask the Irish Members if the op.i. I been alleged that by the reduction of these duties
nion that formerly prevailed with respect to free trade in a difference of 25 per cent. had been made ita the co-t
Ireland was the same now? mercantile goods. Now this difference, he contended,
Colonel THOMPSON said, when two sides declared was a profit of itself which went altogether
two opposite opinions, and each with the strong belief into the pockets of the consumers. But there
that they were enunciating the truth, it often happened was a further advantage which never seemed to
that there was something which had not up have struck those Hon. Gentlemen but yet it was evi-
to that time found its way into the arena of dent from what had recently taken place that the reduc-
discussion. In simple words, those on his side of the tion acted very advantageously also in an indirect
House maintained that protection, from whatever side , manner. On a late occasion it was shown, that in conse-
of the House it came, meant paying away one shilling) quence of this reduction there had been in one particular
and getting a sixpence worth in return. The free- article a glut of' the goods in the market, and the price
traders had some credit in the country because they had fallen immediately fully twenty per cent., that was
had well indoctrinated the people with the truth of their another gain to the consumer. If Belgium had been
policy, and it would take some force of argument to so protected as it was represented, and that protection
convince them that giving ls. for 6d. was either sound was beneficial, how did it happen that nearly the whole
policy or commercial wisdom. Protection was, strictly of the coasting tradeof that country was actually carried
speaking, robbing other people to pay for its maintenance on in British bottoms. There might be a difference in
they might be defined in the reply of a Member of favour of Spanish and French vessels, but still he would
that ',House, who advised his son to take a wife, contend that it was so trifling on the whole trade as to
" Whose wife shall I take?"—(Loud laughter.) be utterly useless in making the calculation of pro-
The free-traders were charged with encouraging foreign portionate benefit.—(Cries of " No, no," from the Op-
labour at the expense of the British labourer. He de- position.) If Hon.lGentlemen questioned the statement,
nied it. He for one would never support the measure he was fully prepared to go into the whole matter, but
if he thought it would diminish the work of the English he would not du su then, because it was evident from the
labourer.—(Opposition cheers.) He hoped Honour- declarations opposite that, as a shipowners' question, the
able Gentlemen on the other side would not go whole principle had been altogether given up since last
away with the conviction that free trade was year. (Cries of "No," from Mr. Alderman Thompson and
calculated to diminish the work of the English labourer. others.) Yes, he contended i: was so, for tho..e Honour-
It was a delusion and mistake; but if they thought so able Gentlemen had altogether shifted their ground, and
they forget the feet that if they increased English labour now, instead of looking upon this as a merely mercantile
in one direction they diminished it in another.—(Hear.) matter, they desired to make it a national question.
But if the Protectionists grounded their opposition upon On that ground also he was prepared to meet them, but
that principle the much maligned free-traders were quite he would not do so now ; and he would only further
ready to meet them upon it. But it was urged as a notice the remark of the Hon. Alderman upon the
necessity for keeping up the navigation-laws that they difference of price between American and English oak,
served to defend the country against the foreigner. by saying that although there was a considerable dif-
But that was a principle not worth maintaining. It ferenee in the prices of the two woods, the former it should
was hardly worth while to give a shilling for only be recollected was white oak in the rough,which would only
sixpence in return,, and that was what they last, when made up, fur seven years, where as the English
really did in keeping up navigation laws for the purpose oak spoken of; was properly prepared for shipbuilding,
of securing an efficient service for the navy. If Hon. and vessels constructed of it were calculated to endure
Gentlemen opposite would close with the free-traders fur twelve years—(Cheers)—in active service.
on that point, the ground of debate would be con- Mr. ROBINSON could only say that if the Ministry
siderably diminished. He admitted the importance were determined to carry this measure through the
of maintaining an efficient naval service, but House, and had the strength to do so, that fully im-
the nary was not manned entirely from the pressed as ho was with the disastrous consequences of the
mercantile service. That was not everything to be con- measure he should give them little further trouble.
considered in manning the navy. The manning of the Yet, while making this statement, he could not but re,
navy depended more upon the wealth of the country ; cal to their recollection the testimony which had now
and if they persisted in giving a shilling for sixpence the been so abundantly given, and warn them of the
country would soon be so impoverished us to be unable to certainty that it must greatly tend to drstroy our
meet the expenditure which was always necessary for car- naval superiority, and pauperise the country.— (Hear.)
rying out any great naval or military operations. He would He denied that the Canadians had expressed a stronger
conclude by craving of the protectionists not to be so wish than they did last year for the repeal of the
ready with their; attacks upon the free-traders for at- navigation-laws. There could be nu doubt, say
tending public meetings. Honourable Gentlemen, what they would, that the Canadians must have
who advocoted Protectionist principles, could attend ' a protective duty of five shillings on corn.
meetings, too, if they ilked ; but this he was j The geographical position of Montreal was such that no
confident they could not do, they could not alteration in the navigation-laws would do any
get ;the support of the majority of the people good for them. If the Government altered the
like the Efree-trader, which no doubt was the real ; navigation-laws with respect to Canada they
cause of their being so mum annoyed at the holding of , would not afford them any benefit whatever,
these free-trade meetings.— (Hear.) but would rather prevent their enterprise and perse-
Mr. HILDYARD did not rise to advocate the policy verance in trade. lie objected to giving the Queen in
of paying is. to gain 6d., nor did he intend to Council any right to interfere in the question of recipro-
go into the details of this question, but he rose city. He was willing to consider the question of the al-
simply to correct a misapprehension into which the teration of the navigation laws, but it was a question with
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose had fallen. I him how far any alterations could be made in them
The Hon. Gentleman commented with great triumph with a due consideration fworoutlhde reinacrrietii:seee scuypuirmeme:ccey
.
upon an extract which his Right Hon. Friend, the Mem- of the country. It was said that the alterations
beg fur Stamford, read from a consul'o celunanuication, in the ig