The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-08 00:00:00

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not he placed hliztolmifierall:niatun.:nlmoo
power which this Bill frives is
the country at isrge. is to be given to the popu a i
the: towns Now, that population. differs from that of
lace,
country at large in two material respects. In the
IPria the
theto w ons, atneds t abnetasr
ao frnlur eel; n;
adrgaroer
proportionprhi cip al t congregatedoth e
lie inhabitants than they do in the country at large. In so . ;
of the country districts the Roman Catholics arc NO to.le_
60 to 1; 20 to 1 to ti.e Protestants. In Dublin and other
large towns they are scarcely 3 to 1, and these Protestant •
again, form a much larger proportion of the householders,
than the Roman Catholics do.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Again, it is not only that the Protestants are more name"
rous, but the Catholics themselves are more intelligent'
,
more independent in private circumstances, more out_ n
the reach of physical intimidation and influences of an undUot
character than their brethren in the country. The Cathobe,,s
in the towns arc mixed up with their Protestant brethren in a"
the innumerable rela:ions of social life. Notwithstanding the
repeated and vehement contests which have been carried on
the city of Dublin, and the several petitions presented to this
House against the return of the popular candidates, it has never
even been alleged in any of those petitions that any denuneiae
tions from the altar or unseemly exhortations were ever resorted
to by the Catholic priests of Dublin. So much for the man-
ner in which the Bill distributes the powers which it creates.
In 1829, when the Right Hon. Baronet the Merabc;
for Tamworth introduced the Catholic Bill, he demonstrate
that the only principle upon which the Legislature could co!1,-
fer popular power was to suffer it to attach itself to civil Val ;
fication. Then, Sir, if it be conceded that this is the true and
sound principle upon which the authority incident to the Cor-
porations should be diffused among a people, how can it be
made an arguineut against :conferring such authority that tb°
greater share of it will fall labs the hands of one religious de,:
nomination or of another ; in other words, that it would fa"
into the hands of those who are entitled to it, and ought
have it ?—( Hear, hear.) Every argument of this kind
apply with an e fortiori force to every power you have ever
given to the Roman Catholics of Ireland. But our (Ijssel),
tons, it is said, render us unfit for the discreet exercise 0K
this power. Is it only in that way that the dissec-
sions of Ireland can be brought to bear upon this subject;
for there they are, and cannot be the consequence of a me"
sure. not yet enacted.—( Hear, hear.) But if our
dis-
sensions make us unfit for the powers conferred by this 131"
they render us more unfit for the more important powers %Oleb
you have already given. Our dissensions were not less strong la
1829 than they are now.—(Hear, hear.) The argument
proves nothing, for it proves too much. Where has pop:lia':
power ever existed without dissension ?—( Hear.) Dissension!'
are inseparable from the exercise of popular power, and their
existence is the common argument used by every enemy
of popular rights in every portion of the world.—(Cheers..
But it is said that the administration of justice will be ren-
dered subject to the influence of these dissensions by the 0P•c".
ration of this Bill. This can be only urged from a gross 1191
conception of its provisions. The Bill gives the munieiPa
councils the right of appointing no judicial officer whatso-
ever. The only persons at all connected with the administra-
tion of justice whom the Bill gives the Corporations the power
of appointing, are the sheriffs in eight towns, and the Inger:
in the remainder. The nomination of sheriffs in these eight
towns is subject to the approbation of the Lord Lieutenaati.
If any additional checks are considered necessary to pro°
the improper nomination of these officers, they can be sure
gested .in the Committee, and I have no doubt that such is t'
general-anxiety on this side of the House, that everything,
connected with the administration of justice should be ' r/°4l
only pure but unsuspected, such suggestions will be receive
with every disposition to give them all due consideration.
—(Hear, hear.) Should it be found impracticable to frltey
provisions which shall secure beyond all doubt the impartin
of the Sheriff, if elected by the Town Councils, that may '-
reason for placing the nomination in the hands of the executive'
-but is no reason for refusing to establish the Corporations thee;
selves. In most cases every Magistrate of the county Winn,.
a Justice of the Peace in the Corporation as well as the Maser
In all cases the Mayor will be subject to the control exerc6:
by the Court of King's Bench over all Justices of the Peacl
In this respect the old Corporations possessed a power o°,
continued to the new—they appointed the judicial officers
well as the Ministerial. I admit they abused theirtrust egi."
giously in the nomination of their Sheriffs—but it is contrail
to all sound reasoning to infer, that because this was done by
an exclusive party who exercised all their powers for the ale
vancement of partial interests, it will be continued by the Peec,,Pos
at large, to their own detriment, when intrusted with seltsbie
vcrnment. Sir, I cannot believe that Hon. Gentlemen
sincere in their apprehensions for the administration of just -t
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman resumed his scat amtua
loud cheers.
Sir HENRY HARDINGE remarked of the 11°n. v-csy
Learned Gentleman who had just sat down, that he a .11Q0..
praiseworthy manlier disclaimed the allegation that the "ad
man Catholics had been influenced in the manner which h,
been stated at elections. He was sorry to be obliged to stiDeej
that he could 'riot agree in opinion with the Hon. and Learilthe
Gentleman. The allegations made had been proved, and
experience which he had acquired as a member of the Intc"ns
dation Committee compelled him to say that he could has
bear out the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in the hope,ihe r.)
0
expressed that the allegations. were unfounded
There appeared before that committee one particular u
which had disgusted every one who heard of it. What he r
ferred to was the address of Father Keogh to his congrega,
t.
tion. On that occasion a gentleman was before the 0001 s
tee, a reporter wellj acquainted with the business of that
House. That gentleman deposed, in the most decided
ner, that he had taken down in short-hand, at the chapel n
his
Leighlin-bridge, the address of the Rev. Mr. geliht°
.congrtgation. He did not know whether the "°..n. and
Learned Member for Tipperary was present upon the oc,ckx,
sion of Mr. Carter Hall being examined: but what be out
cidedly stated there was this ',Would you, if you wergild.''
on your oath, state this was an accurate report ?" I welieso
—" Now, although you have been asked whether you behest,
the substance as accurate, do you mean to say that the Pitt- ese
to his .congregation, at the altar, made use of do
words, ' There is one wretch that has done s°,'
you know whom I mean? I mean Pat Neil, the 'phis
critical, proselytizing, apostate, lickspittle, Pat Neil, rea
brother?' "On the virtue of my oath I took it down e)
paper the moment he uttered it." He (Sir H. flartren
was quite sure that upon that occasion the individual ho and
livered the address in terms so atrocious, that the Heil' •
Learned Gentleman must condemn the import of that addredsss;
but the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would also be heeeicdress
agree with him if he had heard the evidence, that this auGeri-
was actually given.—( Hear.) The Hon. and Learned eto
tleman said that after giving the Parliamentary franchise o
to the counties, why not also give the municipal franchisoto
the- towns.—(Hear, from the Ministerial Members.) the
Hoe. and Learned Gentleman shonld be aware, that atffse•
time that Parliamentary Reform passed for Ireland, tht 'Act
chise in. England was 40s. ; while it was stipulated in tee sOle
of 1829 that the franchise should be raised from 403. s u
And so it was that the same fallacy ran through the sPee; the
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman as through that of de,
J , Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when en they so.
dared that it would be an insult to Ireland not to grant t1,11"g„,
the same measure of justice that had been conceded to %tee
land. Why in the Reform Bill they did not give to the Pei to
of Ireland that which the English were granted—instead o
40s. franchise, the Irish were given but the 10/. franchise' of
(Cheers from the Opposition Members, and hear, hear I "-0,41
Mr. O'Connell ) Was it pos3ible that the Hon. and beareso
Member for Dublin cheered him? Why, if he was not wrctfel
it was that Hon. and Learned Gentlemen who had origiesoe,
the disfranchisement of those freeholders. If he
ed t
ver' that
he should be most happy to be corrected ; but he believe the
it was the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who consented tattor
disfranchisement of not less than 200,000 of the constittle
in the various counties in Ireland.—( Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL—I had a petition presented, Prad
not to grant emancipation on those terms. o
Sir HENRY HARDINGE—Was not that previous t by
passing of the Emancipation Bill ? Now, he was infer°, of
Mr. Littleton, at present Lord Ilatherton, that the chit's: tha,
the Bill affecting the constituency of Ireland, and 01
40s. franchise to 10/., that clause was in the handwritill°the
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.—(Loud cheers frorroao
Opposition Members.) The Hon. and Learned Gentle sof
who had just sat down had defied them to show that ulle"oialt
occasion the Roman Catholics had been regulated by settc, wit;
principles when seeking to carry political objects. " and
very unwilling to be in any way discourteous to the 11°31 to,
Learned Member for Dublin, but be was bound to aPreb,fore
and should read, the evidence contained in the book d 001 i
-
him, to show that Hon. and Learned Gent. advocate, dices'
tical objects on the ground of religious and sectarian pre4taslif
If he were wrong he should wish to be corrected, but w"." Ile'
certainly, he would not misinterpret the evidence in thelsoie‘
port.--( Hear.) He thought it much fairer, instead e' ore'
into evidence in the absence of an individual, that, tl7ci,"oo
sence of that individual, he should state what the ela
' t the
was, and what the result of it appeared to him to he,,t Or
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had attempted td to the
very political objects by sectarian means. He appealed!„ the_
House upon this point for the evidence given bcteirdescu,
Committee. He wished to state that this was not the.e:, that
of any obscure person ; and he begged to pren"-C,, scs;
upon the occasion in question, and before the 14itiVertibee
examined, he requested of the Hon. and Learned d
th
for Dublin, or some member of his family, to att !fraleo
examination, and accordingly the lion. Member forsa the~
attended while the evidence was given which 110::.ted syS,,f
going to read. The individual to whom he alic tion
° Mr. Brownrigg, who held for several years the sit i‘b.'
sub-inspector red magistrate of the county of Kerrtes $l.;
Brownrigg, on being asked, "Do you know whet-esorn
O'Connell, in the county of Kcrry, at Troia'hca
balcony or platform in front of the Commercia' d tht,3o
ing-rooms, addressed the people on one do-Y, ania
lie stated in substance, as it has been printed olor
Kerry papers, That there was not -a demon in he galit.l,ll,
base than the Catholic who should vote for the l'3ll,
of Kerry ;' and then these words were repeated, "weisenr
a death's-head and cross-bones painted or printed on a tither e
and posted on the door of any Catholic who votes ibhe., ird the:,
—Mr. Brownrigg, to this question, answered, " rs fro,},
words used in substance by Mr. O'Connell."—('`'e- ,15"e•o
the Opposition benches.) Mr. Brownrigg was 0,100,10
" Did yeu hear the first part, That there was n° for th
hell more base than the Cathclic who should vote /0 or,
Knight of Kerry ?' to which he answered, " I dicl'i"ig sPee`:),
elusion, lie was asked, " Do not you think that t _ polio
taken in connection with the public speech made
ldners if -,''
was calculated to alarm any Catholic of the lower 0, IA ,
Otis it
voted for the Knight of Kerry ?"—Answer : " I tni
Now he (Sir H. Hardine.e) begged the House to 0 eeelhito
ote ler 01
in the words attributed °by this witness to Mr. °:ti° t
was not put generally that any voter who should _ dereolloy
Knight of Kerry should be considered worse than to
to
hell, but that the denunciation was directed entirely