The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-04 00:00:00

frtm Ma place under the gall, bet amidst such noise
and confusion, that not a single sentence of a 20.
minutes' speech reached the ears of the reporters, so as to
enable them even to conjecture the side taken by the Hon.
Gentleman.
. ,

Mr. BARING being loudly- called for when Mr. H.
Davis resumed his seat, rose and said, be approached the
question then uro'er dis ension with the greatest anxiety
and hesitation, as every . thinking man in the country
must do. He thought every body would be sensible that
the House bad not before it no ordinary act of legisla-
tion, or even a mere alteration in the construction of the
House of Commons, but a measure which, in point of
fact, amounted to a new Constitution.—(Loud cheering
from the Opposition.)—Gentlemen on the Treasury bench
might declare that our old Constitution was worn out—
that it bad lost the affections of the people—that it was
found to work so ill, and cause misery among the people
to such an extent, it behoved us to remodel it Still
they would at least admit that the effect of the proposition
of the Noble Lord went in substance to produce a new
Ciinstitutien.—( Hear, hear. )—He repeated, that although
on the fees of it this was only a Bill to alter the repre-
sentation, it was essentially, and in point of fact, a new
Constitution. The only Constitution that had ever been
tried with success for the purpose of mixing up a popular
form of Government with a Monarchy and Aristocracy,
was that which had been adopted in this country—( Hear,
from the Opposition )---And which, he did not say by the
wisdom of our ancestors, but through the fortuitous occur-
rence of events, or perhaps he might with greater
propriety say, by the gift of Providence—(Cheers)—had
brought nisi to the state of prosperity and security which
ha i hitherto been the envy of
rthe world—(Hear)—and
which, till late years he thought was also the pride and
satisfaction of Englishmen —(Hear, hear.)—Hitherto it
had been held that the Constitution of the country con-
sisted in three estates—King, Lords, and Commons t but
he feared that if this measure were adopted, we should at
least have to reverse the order of these estates (supposing
that they all remained in existence), and that in future it
would be no longer King, Lords, and Commons, but
Commons, Lords, and King.—(Hear.)—He repeated that
the Constitution of this country was that of King, Lords,
and Commons; and living under that Constitution the
empire ha I enjoyed the highest prosperity. He might be
told that the existing system was corrupt and rotten ; but
it appeared evident to him that the state of things
which hod been long established in this country had
secured to it a degree of prosperity and of freedom which
was not to be found in any other part of the world.—
(Hear.)—Here was a popular body slightly subjected to
the influence of the (*.own, connected also with the influ-
ence of the aristocracy, representing much of the property
of the nation, and providing for all those various corn-
pounds which entered into the composition of society.—
(Hear. )—The question then was, whether a body so corn-
posed was calculated to forward the welfare of the country ;
and whether it bad done so? In his opinion both these
questions must be answered in the affirmative.—( Hear.)
When he considered this, and heard the Hon. Member
for Middlesex tell them that if the people were left to
themselves they would establish a different House of
Commons from that which the country now possessed,
be could not help considering it as an argument against
giving them an opportunity of effecting a change, which,
in his opinion, would be any thing but beneficial.—
(Loud cheers.)—He thought, in some parts of hie speech,
his Hon. Friend seemed to lean to the opinion, that the
House of Commons was not quite so unworthy of con-
fidence as some individuals asserted. In his view of the
case, the state of the representation was not so corrupt, or
so defective, as it hod bLen descrtbed, although ignoran,,
and perhaps unthinking, people, endeavoured to find fault
with it. He would contend, that if all the constitution-
mongers in the world exerted their abilities for that pur-
pose, they would not be able to frame a form of govern-
ment under which the same extent of population would be
blessed with the same extent of rational liberty.—(Cheers.)
What had been effected under that Constitution, afforded
some proof that the wit of man could not go beyond the
skill which was manifested in its formation; and if they
threw aside that jewel for the purpose of adopting a theoretic
plan, he thought they must be considered as the wildest
visionaries that ever existed.—(Loud cheers.) Such was
his opinion, and he boldly avowed it in the presence of his
Hon. Friends below him. He had sat for many years in
that House—he had approve,' of many acts of his Hon.
Friends ; but when a question of this sort was brought
forward, be would st.tte his opposition to it without
apology.—(Cheers.) Those who supported this measure
said, " Let the King stand by himself; let the Lords stand
by themselves, and let the people stand by themselves,—
let there be no mutual connexion between them. Such was
their doctrine, but such was not the Constitution of this
country.—(Cheers.) He should be glad to know what
was the practical grievance, under the existing system,
of which that House had to complain ? II ad the other
powers which forme I part of the Constitution interfered
with the people in any way ? Had they interfered with
the fullest freedom of action and of speech in that House,—
the fullest, he would say, that was allowed in any country
in the world ?" No such attempt had ever been made ;

and, if they extended the popu'ar branch of the Constitu-
tion with a view to the diffusion of popular liberty,
his fear was (being himself a friend of freedom) that the
alteration would en.l in the destruction of those liberties
which he was anxious to preserve.—(Hear, hear.).—
What grievance, he would ask, did any man in this
country suffer from the conduct of the other House of Par-
liament? Did they find those Peers pressing on them in
any way? Did they find them making laws that were
directed against the popular branch of the Legislature?
Did they, in the courts of law, assume any superiority ?
Did they not find their rights secured as well as these
which appertained to the House of Lords ? He knew of
no such interference; he was not aware of any such inter-
position; and he was firmly of opinion that the mixture
of different powers and interests in that House had been
the great protector and promoter of public liberty.—
(Cheers. )7-That mixture tended to check and to resist' those
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erroneous feelings which were occasionally visible in that
House. There was sufficient popular feeling in that House.
The feeling which was manifested out of doors was re-
sponded there, as evidently appeared from the lively ex-
pression of popular opinion on this occasion. There was
much restlessness out of doors ; but he felt no apprehen-
sion on that account. The people, it appeared to him,
did not much know what they wanted, neither did the
House of Commons seem to know exactly what they de.

shed. They had turned out one Administration and put
in another, and they appeared to feel no great disposition
to support either. Mr. Windham had observed, that one
great benefit of the House of Commons was, that when
measures were introduced there, time was given for the
people to reflect on them. It would certainly be absurd
for them to decide on what should be done, by proceeding
from market-town to market-town, and inquiring of the
people—. Ia such your real opinon ?" He had known
instances (not to speak of Catholic Emancipation) where
the House hail wisely opposed that which appeared to be
popular opinion ; and the measures thus carried, though
condemned at first, had afterwards proved highly beneficial.
He could not agree with the Hon. Member for West-
minster, that a popular call should be atqtace obeyed,
without any intermediate consideration on the part of that
House. Such a course of proceeding would lead to the
eatest evi:s. With respect to the conduct of the
House of Commons, it could not be supposed, be denied
that they were ever re rely to make the fullest inquiry
into the distresses of the country. No branch of
trade got out of joint—no body of the people was
thrown out of employment—no general grievance was
complained of, without causing the formation of com-
mittees to investigate the facts. On all occasions the most pa-
rental care was manifest for the well-being of the country:
and he thought that those who maintained a contrary po-
sition were either guilty of a gross misrepresentation of
facts, or else were labouring- under the illusion of most
perverted judgments.—(Cheers.)—Such was the course
uniformly taken under the existing Constitution of the
eountry. Ent new lights had now broken in upon us ;
and what consequence was to follow ? Why, in obe-
dience to these novel views, the whole aristocracy of the
country was to be swept away.—(Cheers. ).—The principle
which these reformers thought proper to set up wag, that
the influence of the aristocracy in Viet House was illegal—
that it was ir great evil, and ought to be removed alto-
gether.-Hear, bear.)—Their opinion was, that the in-
fluence of Peers in the nomination of Members—that their..
fluence of landed proprietors, with respect to seats in Par-
liament, was productive of great mischief, and ought to be
gut rid of.—(Hear, hear.)---He should be as sorry as any
man to see the lower classes, even the lowest cla,srs cf this
country, without considerable influence in that House.
They had considerable influence, and thereforeit was right
that there should be a cornttevailing influence ; because
it was the influence on the one side, that enabled
them to bear the pressure of influence on the other. It
w.lB by that means that they were enabled to take (using a
short phrase) low popularity into their system. The Hon.
Gentleman then proceeded to argue, that the proposed qua
lification was too low. In France, where there were
32,000,000 of people, the constituency was something short
of 90,000. The qualification was about 121. sterling, or
the one-fifth of an income of 601. a-year ; which, consider.
irg the difference in the value of money, was equal to about
100/. What was recently proposed there was to reduce it
from 601. to 401. Having gained that immortal victory,
in the achievement of which he rejoiced as mueh as any