The Sun.
London, England, 1822-02-26 00:00:00

REDUMON OF THE FIVE PER CENTS.

The CEIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wored the
Qrder of the Day that the House du resolve itself into it
Committee of the whole House, on the Acts relating to the
Five per Cent. Stuck.

The House having resolved itself into the Committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said. the
Resolution to which tie was about to call tbr Atte,ntiou of tin:

Flouts was founded, in its principle, on a tran,action which '
had always formed the
_subject of panegyrics with the writers
on the state of England, as one of the greatest proofs of the •
resources of this country, of the extent of its credit, and of •
the power which it devised. from the cumbinatien of private
opulence and public faith—he allotted to the reduction of the
Four per Cent.• Annuities by Mr. Pelham in the year 1749.
In introducing the measure which he should now have the
honour to propose, it would not he in-decant to bring briefly
before the House the circumstances of the transactinu its
1749, to which he should appeal as a precedent. In the
year 1737, when Sir Holiest IValpole was Chancellor of the
Exchequer, it was proposed by Sir John Barnard to invest his
Majesty with power to raise money by loans at a low rate of
interest, at which it could alai be procured, to pay off that
part of the public debt on which a higher interest was paid.
This proposal, then made by Sir John Barnard, was not at
that time acceded to by Parliament. In 1749, however, Mr.
Pelham, then Chancellor of the Exchequer, adopted the
idea, and proposed to Parliament a plans tor reducing that
part of the National Debt which consisted of Four per Cent.
This description of Stuck amounted then to 57 millions; at
that time a very great sum, so great indeed, that considerable
doubts were entertained of the practicability of effecting the
reduction : Mr. Pelham, Rowe vet, persevered, and brought
forward his plan, which was finally carried into successful
operation. The plan was t his—a subscription was opened of .
the holders of the Four per Cent. Stock, and the persons sub-
scribing were entitled to receive Three and a Half per Cent.
fur the next seven years, and Three.per Cent. aft er that pe-
riod. The period fixed for the subscription was three months,
and at the end of that time more than 39 out of 57 millions
- of stock had been subscribed. The more complete success of
this first subscription was prevented by is combinations of
some of the great Stockholders, who were, it was said, en-
couraged by the political opposition of the Slay. The Gentles
men whom he (Mr. Vansittart) saw opposite to bins, would,
be doubted not, form an honourable contrast to the opposi-
tion in the time of Mr. Pelham, and would give their full con-
currence to a measure sfsbeneficial to the politic interest, and
se', conducive to the immediate relief of the people. Sir J. Bar-
nard at that time published a pamphlet ou the plan (Considera-
tions on the proposal fur reducing the National Debt), which
produced a great effect, and, in conjunction with the firm-
ness of Parliament, completed the proposed plan. The time
allowed for the first subscription having expired, a further
subscription was opened on terms rather less favourable to the
holders of the stock (for Mr. Pelham very properly determined
that those who in the Gist instance had refused to accede to
a plan so beneficial to tine public arid Sii just to I lie holders,
should nut be allowed afterwards to avail themselves of the
.astearoagt 5 offered.) Under this second subscription, 'about
15,800,0001. was subscribed, and there remained about
3,290,0001. slut k, which was repaid in money to the holders.
The total of the debt Was then Only 78 millions, so that .57 mil-
lions, the suns then reduced, though smaller in absolute
'amount than the•present Five per. Cents. formed a much
greater proportion of t he whole debt of the nation I ban that
which it was now proposed to reduce. Ile said this because
he was unwilling to assume a greater credit than he deserved,
in comparison with the measure of 1749. Indeed very great
credit was due to Mr. Peltiani for the visour with which he
carried t brought his measure, and because he had set a prece-
dent which afforded great facility to the present operation.
• Having thus described the operation of 1749. be should now
state the particulars of the measure which he recommended
to the consideration of the House. Every Member insist have
known how ansionsly they bad looked forward to the seduc-
tion of the interest of the ltisher denominations ot stock
when it could be dune consistently with good faith, how ear-
nestly it had been recommended by Committees, as well as by
various Members of the Douse, and how it had been foreseen
.as our of the happiest consequences of the dawning of or,
tiunal prosperity.—By the operation which he now proposed,
the reduction of the 5 percent. stock, a sum of 1,130,0001. of
annual charge would be reduced, and when the reduction of
the Irish 3 per cents. was added, a relief of 1420,0001. or
1,230,0001. would be obtained for the public. The' stocks
which now bore 5 per cent. interest were of three descriptions.
The first and most considerable was termed Navy 5 per Cent.
Stock, which, at the commencement, was formed by the
funding of Na;.). and Victualling, Bills to the amount of 25
millions, andayhich had since been increased by the finishing
of Exchequer Bills, and the loans raised in it till it now
formed a twat of 141 millions. The second description was
the Irish 5 per Cent. Stock, Which was raised for the ser-
vice of Ireland, but on the credit of England, which was
payable at the Exchequer of England, and since the
union of the Treasuries was chargeable on the ronsoli-
dated Fund of the United Kingdom. This stock amount-
ed to 1,400,0001. and as no conditions as to modes of
repayment were annexed to it, it would be included in the
present payment. Another species of Five per Cent. Stock,
however, existed, which was now of small amount, though
originally much larger, which had been created for a luau
negociated in 1797, and generally known by the name of the'
Loyalty Loan, to which peculiar conditions as to redemption
were annexed. The holders ot this Stock being• entitled to.
:repayment in money within two years after the conclusion of
the ensuing peace, thelt eater part of them called for their
' money within that time, after the peace of Amiens, and there
remained now about one million of that description of Stuck.
That Stock was not included in the present operation, he-
cause under the terms of their loan, the holders were not
liable to be paid off till three years after the paying off of the
Navy Five per Cents., and when they were so paid off, they
' were entitled to dernand a transfer into Three per Cents. on
certain terms (that is to say, at the rate of 133 per Cent. for
every 1001. of their Stock). On these accounts, the Loyalty
' Five per Cents. would not be included in the present trans-
action. The remainder of the Five per Cents. Stocks was
about 14.2 millions. and a half, and the Irish about 13 millions
of Five per Cents. It was proposed that a commutation
• should be made of the British Fire per Cents. into a Four
• per Cent. Stock, the dividends on • which should be payable
on the same days on which those in the Five per Cents. were
' now payable, viz. in January and July. The Irish Five per
Crusts., however, being now payable in April and October, a
quarter's dividend would be paid on the Stock into which
they would he commuted in July next, after which the half-
yearly dividends would be payable. at the sane time as the
other parts of the Fund. The holders acceptifig this commu-
tation, would receive in the Four per Cents. an addition of
St. per cent. on their capitals, which would produce them an
interest of 45. yearly. By the Resolution be now proposed, a
relief of 1,140.0001. would be obtained, exclusive of the Irish
Stock. The House would see that all that they had a right
' to enforce on the holders WAS payment in ready money—
' (Hear !)—and not ti commination into any other Stock. Such
' a commutation must be Oriiheir part a voluntary transaction ;
but, by offering fair and somewhat favourable terms to the
• holder, there was no probability that they would withhold
their consent. It was of course essential that the holders
should have the fullest opportunity of expressing their opi-
nion—(Hear! from the Opposition side)—hat this oppor-
sunlit y would he as fully glyen by allowing them to ex-
. press their dissent, as by calllog on them to express their
assent—(Hear, hear!)—when either int the one way or the
other sufficient time were given: The present eircom-
stancei differed from those ed the time in which Mr. Pelham
effected the commutation, though in point of principle, and
in an observance of public faith, the plans were the same.—
In the time of Mr. Pelham, the parties who wished for the
commutation were called sin to subscribe; and three months
were allowed fur them to-do so. The east extent of our
Colonial possessions, and the Manner•in which Proprietors of
British Stuck were scattered over all the • world, would make
at present the fixed lime of three months inconvenient. In
• some cases it woad b.: not sufficient ; in others it would be
more than enough-s-lt was-certainly desirable that while sof-
' ficient time was alloived to soul e an option, the time should
. not be unnecessarily Prolonged. .To the public.. such a pro-
leingatinn would he attended with inconvenience by making
• the 'benefits indefinite. While to the persons concerned it was
injurious by encouraging that spirit of jobbing and gambling
.which often gave a disgraceful character to the transactions
of the money market. .His proposition' was to limit in the.
• first glace the tune of signifying their intentions fur persons
residing within Great Britain to the ltit h • March. 'fu those
who live out of Great Britain, and in' Europe, the time
allowed, he proposed, should he three mouths; and to those
' who are out of I.:mope, twelve montlis from the present time.
With respect to the terms sin which the commutation was
proposed to take place ; at the present market.price the pour
per Cents. were at' 98. 'The bouus given was 51. per cent.
so that there was nearly 31. per cent. bonus i .for 1051.
of stock was nearly equal to 1031. of money. But as the
dividend on the Four per Cents. was payable a quarter' sooner
than the dividend on the Fire per Cents. there was a certain
deduction from the benefit ;• but as a set-off, he proposed
that a clause should he introduced to provide that the stock
should not be redeemable till 1829. Its the way of objection
to this plan, it was possible that it might be urged that a pro-
portionate, though a small addition, was made to the capital
of the debt, to the amount of 7,500,0001.—(Hear 1.)—Ile
had been induced to adopt this course by the following rea-
sons. There were but two other means by which this alter-
native could be avoided—the creation of a 41 percent. stuck.
Now this plan, in the first place, would have postponed for
a considerable time the advantage to the public from the
commutation, for instead of 1,150,000!. a year, only 700,0001.
' could in the first place be gained. . The advantage to the
' public by the reduction of 4 or 500,0001. a. year was so
• great, that it seemed to him worth while to incur, for the
sake of it, an inconveniencesather technical than real. lit
the second place, the stock fixed at that per centage must.
have been made irredeemable fur a long period, as otherwise
the prospect of another and a speedy reduction would have
' _ Angle hisltieys unwillin; to accept that species of stock. 4pu-

the; plan was to take a premium in income without stock ; but
to this it was objected that trustees conk! not accept an income
that would be fleeting,. and to which no capital would be at-
tached. He now came to the other possible ground of objec-
tion, via. that he proposed now to take the dissent, instead of
the consent, of the holders.—(Hear.)—Now, he said, that
assuming, which, from the. hest information he could collect,
he was justified in assuming, that the terms he.-utiered were
so advantageous to the holders that few wunid dissent, it was
evident that he consulted the public convenience by putting
it on the minonity. instead of the majority, to signify their
will.—(Hear.)—The holders of the 5 per cents, were pecu-
liarly numerous—they rather exceeded 100,000, and of these,
50,000 persons held sums of less than 16001. stock• Now, he
would leave it to the House to judge how great the inconve-
nience would he to which all these individuals, many of them
minors, would be subject, if they were all called on to express
their consent in writing to the proposed commutation. The
greatest facilities and conveniences bad been afforded to the
holders of the stock which it was proposed to reduce. A cir-
cular letter would in a few days lue addressed from the Bank.
to each of these holders, in which letter a blank was to be
left for every such holder to fill up according to his own dis-
cretion, stating whether he dissented from the proposed plats
or nut. The proceeding upon such star emeots would have, of
course, to be subsequently determined by Parliament ; but Par-
•liatnent could not fail to manifest a due degree of attention to
the wish of those who had lent their money upon the public
faith. The faith of Perliament was, indeed, specifically
pledged to the holders of this stock in the very same Act,
namely, that of the Vali of the late King, which provid•
ed fur the liquidation of the National Dela. But in this
Act it was provided that stuck above par should not be
paid off at par on terms prescribed by Parliament. This
was the plan upon which Mr. Pelham bad acted in the
year 1741. Having stated the reason of the deficiency in
the plan of Mr. Pelham, it now remained for hint to urge
the comparative advantages of the plan which he had to
submit to the consideration of the Committee. By this plan.
of teducing the 5 per cents. a profit would accrue tot hecouns
try of about 1,200,0001, independently of the ,a per cents. for
Ireland. By this operation the ainoura of theSinkitos Putt,'
would, however, be increased, while, no doubt, an ;Within
would be made to the public debt of uo lessallan 7,500,0001.
But the good effect which this measure proposed and assured,
it should never be fon gotten, proceeded from the steadiness
with which Parliarueut had uniformly maintained the public
faith. Ins the maintenance of that. faith, however, Govern-
ment neither had, nor pretended to have; any ci edit what-
ever, having only acted as the organ or egent in carrying in-.
to execution the firmness or will of Patliament.—By this
fitinness the stockholder haul, 110 doubt, materially profit-
ed lea that was only the reward of great sacrifices.=
Was nut this circumstance a strong proud of the confi-
dence which the public very naturally placed in the good
faith of Parliament, which confidence most serve to give ad
ditional credit to any vote which Parliament might hereafter
pronbutice in favour of the public creditor ? There was
an answer which, no doubts he would be required to make,
and which it was his ditty to make, to a question to be ap-
prehended on this transaction; therefore he would answer
that question at once.-11e meant the question which he had
beard elsewhere, namely. why the present proposition was net
brought forward in 1818, when the Fluids were higher, in-
stead of postponing it so long? To this question', however,
he could matte a pauper reply :—Ors the conclusion of the
peace his Majssny's Government were so much occupied that
it had no leisure to attend to any other object. For until the
question of the currency was settled, it might be considered
that anyarrangement with the stock-holder would be attended
with undue loss to the stock-holder or to the public. Hence
until caah payments were resumed at the Bank—that indeed
such an arrangement would be inconsistent with the prin.
ciples of equity and policy, as the resumption of cash payments
must involve a considerable reduction Of charges upon the
several asticles of consumption. The Right Hon. Gentleman,
after apologising for haying so long occupied the attention of
the House, concluded with !imposing some Resolutions, which
were its substance the same as those which were officially pub-
lished immediately after the communication • between the
Earl of Liverpool and the holders of Fier Ver Cent. Stock
Fifeshotle.
Mr. ELLICE, before he monk any observations on the plan
which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had submitted to the
House, desired to be informed, whether the condition of the
dissent of the holders of the Five per Cents. instead of their
assent, was to he insisted upon by Government ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that
certainly his Majesty's Ministers had perfectly made up their
minds on that subject. and that no alteration would take
place in the conditions already befrore the public.
Mr. ELLICE felt obliged to the Right Hun. Gentleman
for the decided answer which he had jest given him, and
which rendered it his duty to make such observations as oc-
curred to him on the whole pleasure before the House. His
objectimis to it would have beets considerably diminished, if
the Right Hon. Gentleman had felt disposed to alter this very
material conditions, which, in his opinion, was a most unjusti-
fiable attempt to alter the terms on which the publie-creditbr
advanced his money—the title by which be held his property.
The only defence, as far as it 'went, of this condition was,
that it might• be mote convenient and conducive to its ulti-
mate success, from the gneater number of small holders of
Five per Cent. Stock, whose interest or satisfaction appeared
to focus no part of the consideration of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. As he seemed to think that they would not be
affected by it, the fair way was to allow them -to decide for
themselves—and if the question was proposed to them, whe-
ther they preferred the mode adopted by Mr. Pelham, or the
alteration of the Right Honourable Gentleman, he did not
suppose even the Right Hun. Gentleman would consider them
such indifferent judges of their own interest as to prefer the
latter. The Right Hon. Gentleman haul begun his speech by
detailing the plan pursued on the recommendation, of Sir
J. Barnard, by Mr. Pelham, in 1749. Would to God the
present Chancellor of the Exchequer had the benefit of such
able advice in his connexion with the City; or the louse the
advantage of such enlightened counsel as that of that dis-
tiegnished Representative. We might not then have wit-
nessed the production of such a scheme as 7lie present one,
diffeting front that of Mr. Pelham, in silt its bearings, hut
more particularly by the contrast it presented of every thing
that was tricky, crooked and uncandid, to the caudumr, open-
ness and fair-dealing of the proposal of 1749. Would Sir
John Barnard have advised the Right Honourable Gentle-
man to have recourse to a loan of four millions front the
Bank, to job up.ooes species of public security artificially,
that with the assistance of other Stock Exchange acts,
he might endeavour, before the state of public credit
fairly justified the transaction. to frighten the holders of
Five per Ceut. Stock; avowedly the class of public annui-
tants most entitled to the favourable consideration
of Parliament, into a forced measure like the present ? The
Right Honourable Gentleman sr•as correct in stating that the
former reductions of the Four per Cents. was, proportionably
to the then amount of debt. a more serious operation 01311
the present attempt ; and be (Mr. Ellice) was so far from de-
siring to throw obstacles ins the way, that this measure would
have had his entire approbation and support, if founded 011‘
the sante unexceptionable principles as the former one, which
so fully succeeded. The Right Honourable Gentleman bad
said, the terms now offered created en additional debt of
severs millions. Why riot, as a sacrifice must be porde,. pro-
pose to the holders of Five per Cents. gradually to reduce the
mterest as in the former case, and give theist time fully to
weigh their situation by a similar notice of three months, and
then require their assent instead of their dissent.? No per-
son could have objected. to this ; and, looking to the.situatiun
of several of the holders, the gradual alteration,of the inte-
rest was of some importance to them. It wonlacliave enabled
them to prepare for the redoction 'of their expenses with the
reductionail their incomes. But it was necessary to suit the
fancy of the times and the interest of thejobbers, to have
Something in the shape of bonus—and what hats been the're-
suit ? . The Transfer' Office at-the Bank has bOuniceowded by
1)o/in./file holders of small sums, for the last week, anxious
• to uivoid the consequenees of this measure ;—they have sold
their all to the ready dealer in the foods, who, at their
expense, takes the profit, if profit attends the ttalisac•
thin, and these investments have been converted into fo-
reign securities by the farmer holders of them. French rentes,
Russian, Prussian, Danish; Spanish, Austrian. and event
South Americans Stocks, have risen since the Noble Lord's
speech. at the commencement of the Session, from 5 to 10 per
cent. and are still rapidly.advanci ; *ad the premium the
Right Hun. Gentleman had held out, nut only by his scheme,
but the particular conditions of it, fur the exportation of ca-
pital, alight in the end endanger the measures of 1819, with-
respect to the currency. Either the exchanges must fall, or
the public securities decline, so as to diminish the temptation
for foreign investments, and neither result would have a very
beneficial influence on the success of flue present plans. Ano-
ther difficulty might be, the pressure of stuck, which had been
purchased by the sellers front the former holders, on the mar-
ket. The situatiun- of the speculators for an advance in the
funds was not unknown at the commencement of the Session ;
they bad largely overtraded their capital, and borrowed im-
mense sums from the bankers. Since the publication of the
finance measures of the year, the rate of interest has--also
risen ; and it is yet to be seen what the effect of any unlooVed
for political event might, be, under these circumstances, on
the money-market. if it should be unfavourable, had the
Right Hon. Gentleman the same means Mr. Pelham possessed
of remedying the difficulty? Had he a surplus revenue, or
Consolidated Fund to assist in paying off dissentient hold-
. ors, the source from which Mr. Pelham at last coruple-
.ed his arrangements ? On the contrary, the Consolida-
ted Fund was•flow its arrear nine millions, two millions hay-
- jag been added to assist in keeping up the Funds last year, by

applying that amount, in addition to the surplus of the re-
venue, for the redemption of debt. 'When be (Mr. E.) made
a remark on this subject, and proposed a question to the
Right Hon. Gentleman the other night, it was not from igno-
rance of the manner its which the difference bad been made
up, but with the desire of exposing the devices of the Right
Hun. Gentle Man, who bad last year assured him the Un-
funded Debt should not be increased with this object. On
the whole, looking to the circumstances of the country, our
foreign relations, and especially to the delicate situation in
winch we stood with respect to the measures of 1819, he much
doubted whether this was exactly the moment for the present
attempt. Still, as the House had determined to undertake it.
he would not have withheld his support or assistance,-if more
candour and fair dealing bad been displayed by Government
in the transaction—if greater time had been given to those,
interested for consideration, and particularly if a dissent in-
stead of an assent had not beers required from the Fund-
holder. This last condition was open also to all ki of difficulty
and abuse. 'Suppose Trustees differed in opinion, or stock was
transferred ostensibly to holders in Europe or America, why
were persons taking advantages of this evasion, to he in a
better situation than former, or less experienced parties ?
He should also be glad to know how it was proposed to class
the different -dissentients according to the receipt of the
letters, the form of Which the Right Hon. Gentleman said
would be issued by the Bank ? They would,
.of course, bh'.
ail written at the latest moment ; and was it further fair to
impi,e a species of proscription on property so situated which
would render it unsaleable in the 'market ? Such were the
difficulties arising out of attempts to deviate .from the
straight forward course on an occasion like the present. He
would put it to the Right Hun. Gentleman oppoiite (Mr,
Peel) whose candour woold on all occasions stand the test of
the set ntinizing observation of his political oppouents, whe-
ther this new mode of affeiling the title of the fund. owner
was either consistent with public faith or the character of the
cusintry ? The money had been borrowed to be repaid when
it. was no longer expedient. to pay the interest, Offer an ex-
change, or fulfil the other obligation ; but we had no right,
until we were in a position to guarantee the fixed payment;
to injure the interest of the stockholder, or alter the ‘itle.by
which he held his property.
Mr. WILLIAMS doubted whre'ber, consistently with the
Art of Parliament, which preser ikiesl the paying off 25-mil-
lions of debt from the Sinking Fund, before the Five-Ter
Cents, were paid off. the present measure could legally be
cat Heel into effect. He much doubted the policy of the nira-
sure' for if there were, as the Right Hon. Gentleman said,
so many persons interested in the fond, and those persons
consisting of servants, tradesmen, women, and children, he
much doubted whether there any measure which could
create so nmoh individual distress. The Hors. Nlember then
proceeded to argue at some length on the advantage of a low
price of the Funds, both it regarded the Government, who
had thereby a greater facility of purchasing to diminish the
debt ;" and individuals also, who could, in ease-of low price of
Stocks, get beiter annuity interest for their money.

Mr. MABERLEY wished to know whether those.who should
dissent would be circumscribed in consequence in their power
of transfer?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, they
would still put iess the power of transferring the stock, but,
considered as stock to be paid off, and subject to payment in
the order in which it stood on the list. •

Mr. MABERLEY then said, that he was most ansions that
the plan should be carried into effect ; but he was of opinion-
that it was impossible all parties interested should hare time
sufficient to signify their dissent under the proposed limita-
tion. Within the period of sixteen days, war might be decla-
red by Russia against the Porte, in which case a great fall in
the 4 per rents. now.at 98, wool(' take place. He thought, if•
the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not wish to take an nn-•
fair advantage, he would agree to an extension of the period
for dissent to the 30th March. If that hurry to press the
transaction to a conclusion were shown, be would hare the
public against him he was sure, and that was a matter of some
importance in an affair of the kind.
Mr. RICARDC) asked, whether any provision would be'
made for cases wherein the stock of persons on the Continent
having been dissented front by their agents here, should after-
wards be required to be withdrawn within the period allowed.
for those on the Continent ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the
Hon. Gentleman would find by a subsequent Resolution
that he had provided against any fraudulent attempts of that
nat urn.

Air. RICARDO thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would do well to explain explicitly how he intended to pay off
the amount of those who dissented. He also wished to know
what plan would be adopted to determine the right of prece-
dence in the event of a number of letters being received on
the same day. It was most probable that the great bulk of
these letters would arrive on the. last day (the 16th March).
Perhaps the Right Hon. Gentleman might object to say how
he intended to raise the mouey to pay them off. The Hoa.
member made some other obset vations. but in so low a tone
of voice that we could nut hear him.

Mr. %VU.SON said that, however proper the measure itself
_
was kr the advantage of country, if it was Co press hear
oily un one particular, and that a poor class of persons; sosie
measure of mitigation should accompany it. Not only :did it
go to reduce their interest, but a rod was held over their
heads, that it might again be reduced within seven years.- •
He therefore submitted to the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
that some means should be devised to mitigate the severity of
the measure upon the pcior stockholder.
Mr. BRIGHT pressed the difficulty in the case of Trus-
tees of this Stock upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. BANKES stated, that in consequence of the project
with regard to the Sinking Fund, which he desired to see
established at compound interest, acemding to the original
intention in 1786, he had a Resolution on the subject to
submit to the House. lie wished therefore to know about
what time that project was likely to conic tinder the discus-
sion of the House, and when it would be most convenient to
the House to take. his Resolution into consideration.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQL:ER rose to reply.
First, with regard to what had fallen from the Hon. Menabee
who had last spoken, be begged his Honourable Friend nut
to consider the question of the Sinking Fund as quite 40.7.•
cided. It certainly was one of the greatest importance,
and should not be hastily disposed of. • It was, however,
no part of the question then before the House. In re-.
ply to the question which had been put to bins relative
to trustees, he had to say that they would be empowered,
to act as principals,. and would be indemnified by the
Bill. He fully appreciated the compassion of those who
felt for the hardships which would be suffered by .many.
small capitalists, in consequence of this measure ; • be parti-,
cipated in the feeling, but he apprehended that the only
answer he could give to it was, that this was a contingency,
they must always have had in view.—(Hear, hear.)--At the
same time, he would tape the liberty to observe, that al-
though they might suffer in the reduction, yet they.were
deriving, in the reduction of twenty-five per cent. in all
articles of fconsumption, the full benefit of that state of
things which brought about the reduction. of interest
With regard to the argument for a 'prolongation of time
for dissent, be had to observe, that there was no part of
-the Kingdom which the post did not reach in six days,---,
which he thought would allow of ample time for delibet
ration on such a subject. Three months were allowed figs.
-persons un the Continent. and to grant the- same time to
-Yorkshire would have a pernicious *Sect. He found it irp-.
possible to answer the question of the Honourable Mem...,
leer for • Portarlingtoni (Mr. Ricardo,) as to the means he
should employ to pay off the amount of the dissentients. AS,
.soots as the diy.of option had closed, he would bring for-
ward that subject, and, as far as possible, state the sup-
plies required.—(Hear, bear.)—He thought the obseivati'on •
of the Hon. Member for Coventry (Mr. Ellice). proceeded
more from prejudice than frOm a fair consideration of-tin'
case„ He did not think he could succeed in persuading the
public, or the House, of the existence of the...material dif-
ference he spoke of, betwixt the modes of collecting the votes
by assent or dissent. On the last day. suppOsing all the let-
ters to arrive ors that day, they-would be opened by the-Bank,
in the order of receipt. and entered, as opened, in the Bank
book, numerically. No way, he thought, could be fairer. He.
begged leave also to differ Irons the Hon. Member for Coven-
try, as to his plan being the cause of English stock going to
foreign markets. A great rise had taken place, and great
sums had gone from the country to all the foreign funds be-
fore the meeting of Parliament, and also before and after the.
intimation made by his Noble Friend-in that House, and the
cause was the reverse of that stated by the Hon. Member. It
was owing to the false alarms which had gone forth relative
to the intention of Parliament to• tamper with the Sinking
Fund and the public creditor.—(Hear, bear !)'—Public credit,
however, would soon bring English money hack again.
Mr. RICARDO asked the Right Hon. Gentleman, whether
in case stock was standing in the names of two trustees, one
in this country, the other on the Continent, both were to be
allowed the longest time to declare their assent ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER intimated,
that notice wouldihe given of the time allowed in such a case.
Mr. WILLIAMS put the case of two trustees of stock, one
giving his assent, the other dissent, and asked how the stock
was to stand ?
Tile CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said they
must go to Chancery.—(A laugh.)
Mr. BROUGHAM placed the same question in another
point of view. Suppose, said the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman, one trustee assents, is another joint trustee who re-
sists bound by the act of the first?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
was not. The Resolution was agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then prpposed

i

other Resolutions, which, after a few observations from Mr.
l‘laberlcy, Mr. William Smith, Alderman Bridges. and Mr.
Wilson, were agreed to, and the report ordered to be re-
ceived to-morrow.
The lt4port of the Committee of Ways and Means was
brought up, and the resolutions imposing duties on tobacco,
sugar, &c. agreed to.

MALT TAX.
The House went into Committee on the Annual Malt Tax.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it had
been decided in Parliament, that the annual Malt Tax
should be reduced, and he had to propose a resolution, ma-
king a reduction of two shillings in the duty upon every bar-
-10 of prter and al A poportional rduc tion d,' als
madeo per barrele. in wearker malt-liqueors, British spiritso,
and vinegar. He then moved a resolution to that effect,
which was agreed to, and the report ordered to be received
to-morrow.
Mr. S. RICE, after expressin;, some apprehension that the
Window Tax would press too heavily upon Ireland, gave no-
tice that he should bring that subject shortly under the con-
sideration of Parliament.
„.The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER reminded the
Honourable Member that, by the Act of Union, no duty
c4nid be imposed on Ireland exceeding the same description
of duty in Great Britain.
„,'lSir• W. smani gave notice, that he would to-morrow
•Li'lve for certain Papers relating to the negociation with Fo.
reigr. Powers respecting the Slave Trade.
Mr. CALCRAFT moved for an Account of the Public In.
fni! and Expenditure in Great Britain and Ireland, from
sth of January, 1817, to the sth of January, 1821, inclu-
stve•--The motion was agreed to.
• On the motion of Nlr. GOULBURN, the Irish Arms Sri-
2;lre Indemnity Bill Was read the second time.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
The House adjourned at Twelve o'Cluck.

3IINORITY '
Cr SIXTY WHO VOTED THAT IT WAS A BREACH OF THE
PRIVILEGES OF PARLIAMENT TO.OPE:s: LETTERS TO
AXD FROM PRISONERS IN GAOL.
Alan J. J. H. Ebrington, Visct. 'Moore, Peter
Althoro Visct. Ferguson. SirR.C. Martin, John
Le. " ,
, nal, H. Farrand, Robert Normanby, Visct.
bgright, Henry , °rattan, .J. Newman, R.
tirch, J. Guise, Sir W. ' O'Callaghan, Jas.
1.40, ~
Barr aziham, Henry Hamilton, Lord A. Parnell, Sir H.
78enett, S. B. M. Honeywood, W. P. Palmer, Col.
, yon, Benj. Haldimand, AV. Russell, Lord J.
zealr.nont, T. W. Hutchinson, Hon. Ricardo, David
clvert, C. C. H. Ramsden, J. C.
Cr .
espigny' Sir W. Hume, J. Robinson, Sir Geo.
Crornnton Sam. Leonard, T. B. Smith, Hon. R.
Co "
ocannon, L. Leycester, Ralph Smith, Wm.
((°flirl, Sir I. Lloyd, Sir E. Smith, Samuel
Lreevey, T. Larnbton, J. O. Sefton, Earl of
Caleraft, John Lushington, Dr. Stuart, Lord J.
(tarter, J. .3laberly, .T. Sykes, D.
Caulfield, Hon. H. Moberly, W. L. Wilson, Sir R.
~,navies, Col. Macdonard, Jas. Wood, Alderman
L'enman, T. Marjoribanks, S. Wyvill, M.
TELLERS—NV. James and the Hon. H. O. Bennet.

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.