The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-14 00:00:00

of that to which he was justly entitled, and Baron de
Bode's/cCe furnished another instance of their injustice.
After a few words from Mr. HUME, the vote was
agreed to.
MP next vote proposed was, that a sum, not exceed-
ing 12,0001., be granted to defray the expenses of pur-
chasing books of reference and apparatus for the colleges
in Ireland.

Mr. J. O'CONNELL said they were all agreed that
education was essential, but there were differences in
Ireland on the subject of the education to be gives in
these colleges, and he hoped therefore the proposed vote
would be postponed. Nut only was that kind of educa-
tion objectionable to great numbers of the Catholics, but
it was objected that the Government retained to itself
the power of appointiug the professors, thereby in-
creasing its patronage. He hoped, therefore, the vote
would be postponed till next session.
Mr. SPOONER thought some explanation should be
given before the vote was agreed to, as a certain sum had
been provided by an Act of Parliament.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
100,0001 which had been secured by the Act of Parlia-
ment fur; the building and furnishing of the colleges
would be expended in October, and the present vote was
for the purpose of providing books of reference and ap-
paratus to enable the professors to open their classes in
October.
Mr. MUNTZ said it areeared clear that the presi-
dents and: vice-presidents had received salaries of two
years for doing n.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to some observations of
Mr. Plureptre, slid that the Roman Catholic Bishops
had proposed that certain professors should not be
appointed without a veto of the Roman Catholic &shops.
A plan had, however, been sanctioned by Per'lament
—a certain amount of expenditure had been agreed
upon ; 7,000/. a year had been provided, and Ministers
could not, therefore, of their own authority, set aside the
plan sanctioned by Parliament, A very great portion
of the Catholic laity and clergy were anxious for the
opening of the colleges, and Sir Robert Kane had in-
formed him that a grei.ter number of students would
attend than had been expected.
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL said the Catholics had con-
scientious objections to these colleges, which objecions
were confirmed by the head of their Church. All he
asked was that the vote should be postponed till next
session, as possibly an arrangement might be come to in

the interim.
Lord J. .11LTSSELL said regulations had been pre-
pared, under the sanction of the Lord. Primate, which
he thought would obviate the dangers which had been
apprehended, and which would give the Catholics every
security as regarded the religious faith of their pupils, as
provision would be made for the pupils receiving
religious education.
Mr. LAW quite agreed that the Government was
bound to carry out the provisions of the Act of Parlia-
ment. The difficulty arose in their g,ing beyond that
Act.—(hear, hear.) Tho Act provided for the expendi-
ture of a large sum, and he thought it was somewhat
irregular to propose as an estimate a sum beyond what
the Act had provided. When it was found that 100,000/.
was irhutficient, a Bill should have been brought in to
supply what was necessary, instead of endeavouring to
obtain that supply by a vote. He submitted, tberetore,
that the present mode of proceeding was irregular.
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER said

they were not enable t, under the Act, to apply any part
of the 100,0001. for any other purpose than that of build-
ing and furnishing the colleges. The present vote was,
in point of tact, only carrying out the Act of Parliament,
as the colleges could nut be opened without the present
provision being made.
Mr. PLUMPTRE did not see that they should be
called on year after year to grant such votes as the
present.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the present vote was not intended to be an annual grant,
but was tor the purpose of setting the colleges eoing.
Mr. HENLEY wanted to know, after the declaration
of the Hon Member for Limerick (Mr. J. O'Connell),
what security they had that the colleges would be filled.
—(Hear, hear.) If they did not, it is possible they
might be celled upon for annual grants. He thought,
therefore, they were at present going on in an unconsti-
tutional course. The Noble L .rd (Lord Juhn Russell)
said the Catholic hierarchy had made certain demands
to appoint certain professors, and that certain explana-
tions had been given to sa'isfy them. If that were so,
it would be wry convenieet that the House should know
what those explanations were.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said what he stated was, that
the presidents would make regulations that would be
satisfactory; but no peculiar privileges would be given
to Roman Catholics. The regulation would be, that
lodging. houses would receive licences to be held by par-
ties that would not expose the pupils to proselytism.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether the entire
100,000/. were expended, and whether that was to cover
all expenses.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was to cover the building and furniture of the colleges
purtenant thereto, but ho did not think that instruments
could be considered appurtenances.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether salaries were
paid to the presidents and vice-presidents?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that they were engaged in
making preparations for the opening of the colleges,
and making regulations preparatory to that, and in con.
sequence were paid their salaries.
Mr. SPOONER said, as this might be made a prece-
dent for further grants, he should divide the Committee
on the subject.
Mr. BANKES said he thought the Government would
do better in applying the surplus money they had in
hand to the purshase of these philosophical instruments.
Mr. HUME said he would support the vote because
he thought the Government had acted fairly and can•
didly in this matter.
Mr. NEWDEGATE asked whether it was true that
that there wa3 an accumulation in the money that had
been voted in 1845?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that none of this 20,0001. a
year which was voted for professors could be paid, in-
asmuch as those professors had not been as yet ap-
pointed.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the vote ... ... 106
Against it ............28
Majority in favour of the vote —7B
The vote was then agreed to.
65,5751, for excess in the Commissariat department.
Mr. HUME called the attention of the Committee to
the enormous excess in the Commissariat. He thought
there was great waste and extravagance in this depart-
ment. He hoped that Government would look more
minutely than they bad previously done into these
matters.
At r a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER and Mr. VERNON SMITH, the vote was
age. clt t
35 3864 was voted to defray the expenditure connected
with the Ordnance.
500,0001. was granted to meet the charge of a like
amount of surplus granted for the service of the year
1848, to the credit of the preceding year.
Mr. HENLEY asked the meaning of this vote.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was to cover any odd sum that might remain.
Mr. WA WN protested against this vote until he knew
what it was for.
The vote was then agreed to.
The House then resumed, the CHAIRMAN reported
progress, and asked leave t) sit again on Monday.
The [louse then went into Committee on the Inland
Posts (Colonies) Bill.
The several clauses were agreed to, and the House
resumed.
Mr. HUME asked whether the notice given at the
Post-offiee, respecting the payment of letters, applied to
colonial as well as to home letters, because, if so, they
should supply the colonies with stamps?
Mr. HAYTER replied that he would give his Hon.
Friend an answer on Monday next.
The several clauses were agreed to, and the House
resumed.
The report of the House of Commons Officers (Sala-
ries) Bill was brought up and agreed to.
' The House of Commons Offices Bill then went through
Committee—the report to be received on Monday.
The Petty Bag, See., Offices Amendment Bill passed
through Committee.
The Commons Inclosure Bill next went into Commit-
tee; the several clauses were agreed to, and the report
ordered to be considered on Monday next.
The Labouring Poor Act Amendment (Ireland) Bill
went also through Committee.
The Land Improvement Amendment Act (Ireland)
Bill was next proceeded with in Committee, and the re-
port ordered to be received on Monday.
The Poor Relief (Cities and Boroughs) Bill was read
a third time and passed.
The House then went into Committee on the Poor-
law Union Charges Act Amendment Bill.
Captain PEC HELL complained of the little con-
sideration which had been given to the measure, and
stated his intention of moving certain amendments to
some of the clauses of. the Bill, especially to the fourth
clause.
Mr. FLOYER also considered the measure defective,
but, after some conversation, clauses one, two, and three
were agreed to.
The CHATIV,TAN then reported progress, and asked
leave to sit again on Monday.
The Administration of Justice (Vancouver's Island)
Bill was read a second time.
The House at its rising was ordered to stand adjourned
till Monday next.
Lord DUDLEY STUART inquired at what time the
Small Debts Bill would come on for discussion.
Sir G. GREY said that it stood amongst the orders of
the day for twelve o'clock on Monday.
Lord DUDLEY S I'UART said that he understood
certain clauses had been prepared by the Attorney-Ge-
neral for insertion in this Bill which would most mate-
rially affect its principle. He alluded to the compensa-
tion to be givers to the officers of the Palace Court. The
clauses to be proposed for insertion provided that the
question as to the amount of compensation to be given
to the officeis of that Court should be left to the Trea-
sury, instead of to the House of Commons, as was in-
tended by the Bill on the table. Ho (Lord Dudley
Stuart) did not think them entitled to compensation at
all. It it was found for the advantage of the country
that the Palace Court should be abolished they should
take the consequences. He thought that Parliament
should d, cede bow much they should hare, and that was
in accordance with precedent. They had had enough of
compensation already from the 'freasury, under the 7
and 8 Vic., c. 96. The re,urn he 11,0 moved for shoe ed
how enormously they had been compensated, and yet
the operation of that Act had not diminished their in•
comes; but, on the contrary, by the operation of another
statute the business of the Palace Court and the fees of
theHe t
1u; rnented.
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object en: merely to say that it was a neeree.,
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e most lavishly compensated.
Qi The II toe adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'clock.
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