The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-03 00:00:00

altering them from time to time and adopting them to their
own wants, subject to this limitation. that such alterations
should be approved of by her Majesty, after having been
laid before the Imperial Parliament. Thus, any reform in
the Constitution of the colonies was virtually to be effected
by Vie col,nies themselves. He thought it a principle of
great importance, and one the adoption of which should be
delayed as little as possible. As to the objection to two
Chambers. In point of fact the ground of objection in the
papers was not what the Noble Lord had stated. The great
objection was to the interference of Parliament at all. When
once a Constitution had been granted, the colonists depre-
cated all further Parliamentary interference; so that it
would be seen that all was in accordance with the feelings
of the colonists, as expressed in these papers. The Bill
further proposed to divide the district of Victoria from the
other parts of New South Wales, and it gave to the colo-
nies with constitutions thus formed the power of forming,
if they thought fit, a Central Constitutional Assembly, to
dispose of matters of common interest. But such a Central
Assembly could not come into operation except it was de-
manded by the legislations composed as he had described.
It was intended to omit the clauses creating a common
tariff among the provinces. The arrangement could not be
made without supplying a number of details which it would
be objectionable to supply here. With that alteration, it
was his anxious desire the measure should pass this year, in
compliance with the request of the colonists themselves.
The present state of things was most inconvenient and un-
just to Port Philip. If the measure were postponed now,
he would not be sanguine that they could entertain a better
period for discussing it next session, pressure of business
affecting questions of domestic interest. Such was the
course the Government intended to take; and from commu-
nications which he had with persons connected with the co-
lony, he was sure that any postponement of the Bill would
be much regretted. He might add, however, that if serious
opposition were offered to the measure, he feared it might
not become the law of the land.

whom and to whom they liked. It seemed, however,
that an exception had been taken to this article, and a
respectable man who had been in the habit of dealing.
with British merchants, who were considered s;
foreigners, had been put to death for so doing while
others had been obliged to fly to avoid a similar fate.
The question, therefore, he wished to ask was, whether
it was the intention of Government to compel the per-
formance of those treaties with China, and
whether the Noble Lord had any objection
to lay on the table of the House the communications and
instructions which had passed on the subject.
- Lord PALMERSTON said considerable anxiety had
been felt on this subject amongst the commercial
community, but he was glad to say that
such anxiety did not rest upon any solid
foundation. It was true, as stated by the Hon. Gentle-
man, that a communication had passed between the
Government of China and her Majesty's Government,
on the subject of the treaty relating to Canton. It was
also true that the Government of China had demurred to
the engagement conferring privileges on British subjects
in reference to trading in Canton, but it was on the ground
that they were not able to prevent outrages and insults
being offered to British subjects by the natives, which
might tend to disturb the friendly relations which existed
between the two countries. Her Majesty's Government
had not yielded the rights which the treaty con-
ferred upon them ; on the contrary, they
claimed to continue them, but, in preference
to enforcing those rights by force of arms, Govern-
ment might think it necessary to delay taking posses-
sion of Canton till the Chinese authorities were in a
position to repress outrage and insult on British sub-
jects.— (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") With regard
to the second question of the Hon. Gentleman, relating
to the treaty of Nankin, it was true that some
agitation had occurred in China on the subject, and the
act referred to by the Hon. Gentleman; but he was
informed that it was the act of an individual and not of
the Chinese Government. Still, however that might be,
he had no hesitation in stating that it was the intention
of her Majesty's Government to exact from the
Government of China a full and faithful performance
of those treaties which had been made for the interest of
this country.—(Hear, hear.) Representations had been
made on the subject, and from all that be had heard he
was led to believe that these representations would be
attended with success.
UNION OF KILRUSIL
Mr. CRAWFORD then rose, pursuant to notice, to
call the attention of her Majesty's Government to the
statements of continued evictions in the Union of Kil-
rush, contained in Captain Kennedy's last reports, and
to ask, whether it was the intention of the Government
to propose any measure to Parliament for the better
protection of the lives of evicted tenants.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the Government
had received reports on the subject to which the Hon.
Member had alluded, but he did not know that the
Government could add anything to the measures they
had already brought forward on the subject. The Go-
vernment had no measures at present in contemplation
to prevent the invasion of the Act.
NAVIGATION-LAWS.
Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to a question from
Mr. Cornwall Legh, said that it would not be till the
end of the year. Corresponding laws would be made re-
lative to the navigation laws in America.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
On the question that the orders of the day should be
now read,
Lord JOHN RUSSETI eeie that he pnuld take
that opportunity of stating the course the Government
intended to pursue with respect to the different mea-
sures now before the House. The first notice that
stood on the paper of that evening was the
Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill. That Bill having
gone through Committee, and the greater portion of the
clauses having been gone through, he would propose
that the House should sit at twelve o'clock to-
morrow (Tuesday), and if they got through the
Committee and the report, he would suggest that
the third reading should take place on Monday next, as
it was desirable that the attention of the [louse of Lords
should be called to the subject as speedily as possible.
On Friday, as he had already stated to ttae House, the
Government proposed to take the Scotch Marriage and
Registration Bill before any other business. After the
consideration of these Bills the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer would propose the advance for Irish railways
and distress in that country. On Monday, as he had
before said, the Government proposed to go on with the
third reading of the Poor Relief Ireland Bill. On
Thursday and Friday next week the Government pro-
posed to take the Ordnance estimates and the remaining
estimates in Committee of Supply. He had stated on a
former occasion that they might have to postpone the
opening of the Irish Colleges till next year. He (Lord
John Russell) had, however, had a communication from
Ireland, which had induced him to think that great
disappointment would be felt if such a course was
pursued, and he should propose, therefore, to open
those during the present year, and such being his
intention, it would be necessary to ask for a sum of
money in a Committee of Supply. There was another
Bill with respect to which much inquiry had been
made as to when it would be proceeded with,
he alluded to the Australian Colony Bill; the Govern-
ment proposed to take the second reading of that Bill
on Monday the 16th; and it might be as well that he
should state that it was the intention of the Government
to propose some very important changes in that Bill.
The first alteration was with regard to the tariff. They
proposed to give the General Assembly the power of
making a general tariff for the whole of the colonies.
The next was with regard to the price of land, which
was now fixed by Act of Parliament. Now, the Go-
vernment proposed that the General Assembly
sould have the power of alteringthe price of land,
when it should think proper and necessary.—(clear,
hear.) He trusted that the Bill was of such a nature as
to obtain the assent of the House, since it was important
for the future government of Australia, and in accord-
ance with the feeling for some time generaly
expressed in that House. With respect to some
other of the Bills, he did not propose at present to give
any of them up, by discharging the orders in re
spect of them. The most important Bill was one with
regard to the Ecclesiastical Commission. 'That
Bill
was founded upon one which was introduced into
that House three sessions ago. Great objections
were made by the late Archbishop of Canterbury
and the Bishops connected with the Ecclesias-
tical Commission, and upon the representations that
were made he gave up the Bill, preferring to refer it to
Select Committee, which made a report generally
in favour of the Bill that had been originally
proposed, and he had every reason to anticipate the
approval of the House to the Bill; but it had been re-
presented to him from various quarters that, whilst a
Commission was pending with regard to Church leases—
moved for by a Noble Friend—it was thought not de-
sirable to proceed with the Bill during the presentsession.
Oa the other hand, they had to anticipate great oppo-
sition from the House of Lords. Seeing the difficulties
in the way, he thought that Bill would stand a better
chance of coming to a consummation by postponing it to
another session. With regard to the Charitable Trusts
Bill, he bad consulted the Lord Chancellor upon the sub-
ject, and the result was that he did not intend to proceed
with that Bill this session. There were, however,
one or two other subjects of very great ins
portance, with respect to which it was neces-
sary they should bring measures before the House,
and as to the grounds for which they were
introduced; it was necessary to explain to the House
also the reasons why they should be passed during the
present session. The most important of these related to
the question of lights and pilotage. His Right Hon. Friend
would state to the House his general views on this subject,
without, however, proposing to legislate for the present
purpose with respect to the mercantile marine. He pro-
posed that the House should sit on Tuesday
to proceed with this Bill. He proposed on
Monday next that the House should take
into consideration the amendments to the
Encumbered Estates Bill. They had been printed, and
required, especially one of them, the deliberate conside
ration of the House. He did not think it was necessary
to state anything further. He trusted there would
be no objection to their taking the third read-
ing of Bills to which there was not any opposition;
but he should not proceed with any that would interfere
with the promise he had made to the Hon. Gentleman
opposite, that nothing should interfere with his motion
for to-night. The Noble Lord concluded by moving
that the House should sit to-morrow at twelve.
BANKRUPTCY BILL.
Mr. B. OSBORNE said there was one Bill of con-
siderable importance, namely, the Bankruptcy Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that the Bill was under the
consideration of a Select Committee, and he believed
there was a general assent in the Committee to the
Bill, and he hoped that nothing would prevent its pro
ceeding this session, for he held it to be an importan
measure.

Lord LITTLETON, without going into the merits of the
proposed scheme, supported the proposition of his Noble
Friend on the cross benches. The Bill, however, fell short
of what it ought to be, by not giving statutable security to
the colony of having their local affairs administered by local
legislation. He saw no indication of such a principle in,the
Bill.

Lord STANLEY ridiculed the idea of discussing at so late
a period of the session a measure containing principles of
such magnitude, and details of so great importance. If the
Noble Lord attempted to carry through any portion of this
important Bill during the present session he would unques-
tionably fail, for strenuous opposition would be offered to it
both in that and the other House of Parliament.
Earl GREY saw great difficulty
.in separating what the
Noble Lord opposite had termed the "comprehensive" from
the " simple" portions of the Bill.
The petition was laid upon the table, and the conversation
ended.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented the fourth re-
port of the Commissioners of Charitable Donations, and in
presenting some returns connected with the amount of bu-
siness before the Court of Chancery, he expressed a hope that
his Noble Friend (the Lord Chancellor) would almost imme-
diately be able to resume his duties.

AUDIT OF RAILWAfACCOUNTS BILL.
Lord MONTEAGLE moved the second reading of the
Audit of Railway Accounts Bill.
Lord LONSDALE disapproved of the measure, which he
regarded as an unjust interference with private speculation,
without any prospect of benefit accruing. ' When those
searching inquiries were not made by Government into other
companies, he did not see why such interference should be
caused in the case of railway companies. He then moved that
it.he read a second time that day three months.
Lord 'IONTEAGLE said that as the Bill had been so
fully discussed a-1 approved of last session, he did not see
why there should be an j. "ecessity for dividing on it now.
The Earl of YARBOROUGL: that he did not think
that the railway companies were dealt ia. iy with, because
they had no opportunity of knowing this Bill, as it na,l zr
printed on Saturday, and proposed to be read a second time
on this day (Monday). He should therefore support the
motion of his Noble Friend (Lord Lonsdale).
Their Lordships then divided, when there appeared—
Contents
Non-contents ... 5
Majority ... —5
The Bill was then read a second time, and their Lordships
adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 2.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Fire Minutes before
Four o'clock.

PRIVATE BILLS.
The Lords' amendments to the following Billa were
considered and agreed to:—
Charing-cross Bridge (Amendment of Acts, Powers to
alter authoriied Approaches, &c).
East Anglian R►ilways (Ely and Huntingdon Rail.
way. Extension of Time).
The following Bills were read a third time and
passed :
Lanarkshire (East and West Line) and Glasgow and
Shotts Turnpike Roads (Amendment of Acts, &c.)
Shrewsbury and Birmingham Railway Acts Amend-
ment. Branches, and Deviations.
The report on the General Land Drainage and Im-
provement Company (Incorporation and Conferring of
Powers) Bill was considered and agreed to.
- PROTECTION OF WOMEN.

Mr. DUNCAN presented nine petitions from South
Shields and other places in the county of Durham, in
favour of the Bill for the better protection of women.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented a similar petition
from Lincoln.
Mr. WILLIAMS presented a similar petition from
Macclesfield.

BEER HOUSES.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented a petition from
Gravesend and other places against the spread of beer
houses.

THE CHARTER.
Mr. HENRY presented a petition from Lancashire in
favour of the People's Charter.
la*• CLAY preacatcd a, ;similar petition from Hull.
AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.
Mr. 0. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from York-
shire complaining of agricultural distress.
Lord BROOKE presented a similar petition from
Warwickshire, agreed to at a meeting of 7,000 persons,
presided over by the High Sheriff of the county.
BANKRUPTCY LAWS.
Mr. BASS presented a petition from Derby in favour
of the Bankruptcy Consolidation Bill.
Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND presented a similar
petition from Preston.
SANITARY STATE OF DUBLIN.
Mr. FREWEN presented a petition from Dublin,
praying for a sanitary measure for that city.
COUNTY COURTS,
Mr. HILDYARD presented a petition from White-
haven, praying for an extension of the jurisdiction of
the county courts.

-MARRIAGE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Mr. COWAN presented a petition mom Edinburgh
against this Bill.

PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
Captain PECHELL presented a petition from
Brighton, praying for Parliamentary reform.
AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.
The Earl of MARCH presentill several petitions
from Surrey and Sussex, complaining of agricultural
distress.

Major BERESFORD presented a similar petition
"rom the county of Essex.

TUE CHARTER.
Mr. COBDEN presented a petition from a place in
Yorkshire in favour of the adoption of the People's
Charter.

PROTECTION OF WOMEN.
Mr. SCULLY presented a petition from Tipperary,
in favour of the 13111 for eiving protection to women.
A GREG' ULTURAL DISTRESS.
Mr. NE WDEGATE presented petitions from North
Warwickshire and other places, complaining of the
operation of free trade legislation and of agricultural
distress.
GOVERNMENT OF KINGSTON, JAMAICA.
Mr. HENRY BAILLIE presented a petition from
the House of Assembly in. Kingston, Jamaica, praying
that the Government of that colony might be assimi-
lated to that of our North American colonies.
SUPERANNUATION TO POOR-LAW
OFFICERS.
_

Mr. THORNELY wished to put a question to the
President of the Poor-law Board in consequence of
the numerous petitions which had been presented
to the House on the subject. The question was
—whether it was the
_intention of the Government to
bring in any Bill to establish a superannuation fund
for the officers of poor-law unions; and if a Bill were to
be brought in, whether it was proposed that the funds
should be provided by a rate or by a reduction of the
salaries of the officers?

Mr. BAINES said the subject of a superannuation
'und had been for some time under the consideration of the
poor-law board, and he hoped very shortly to be able to
lay a Bill on the table of the The details of the
measure were, however, not sufficiently matured to war-
ranthaWt iitthworuegldardbetointhtreodfuunded, hedubreignggedthtoe
ie
etnh: .. hopesession.
state distinctly that he for one would be no party to in-
troducing any system of cora pensation which was payable
either out of the poor-rates or out of any other fund of
the country.—(Hear, hour-) The only principle which
he should think advisable wa.s that adopted in the Metro-
politan Police Act, eight years ago, and in the Borough
Police Act last year, of providing a fund out of reduc-
tions from officers' salaries.—(Hear, hear.)
NEW SOUTH WALES.
Mr. SCOTT put the following question to the Go-
vernment :—Her Majesty's Government having intro-
duced into Parliament the Australian Colonies (No. 2)
Bill, continuing in New South Wales a single Chamber
of Legislature, on the ground, as stated in the papers,
presented to both Houses on the 25th day of May, that
public opinion in the colony is opposed to a double cham-
ber, and these papers recording the decision of the present
Governor of New South Wales, and of the legislative
eJancil, and containing petitions from the most populous
and influential portions of the colony in favour of a
second Chamber, is it the intention of her Majesty's
Government to proceed with the Bill in its present shape;
also, was any communication on the same subject re-
ceived from the late Governor
n
vertaoirtsSibreGinegorlgaeidGoinp pt sh,eatnadb
lief'
an, is there any obj et
before proceeding with the Bill?
Mr. HAWES seated that Bill No. 2 was an exact
copy of the first Bill, and that it was the intention of
the Government to proceed with it. The Honourable
Gentleman was also understood to say that no such dis-
patch existed as that referred to by the Hon. Gentleman,
from Sir George Girps.
AFFAIRS OF CHINA.
Mr. H. BAILLIE wished to put a question to the
Noble Lord at the held of the Foreign Department with
reference to the affairs of China. By the last accounts
which had- arrived trete that country it appeared that
the Emperor had caused an additional communication to
be mace to her Se,.jesty's Plenipotentiary, that he
did not intend to observe the first article of the
Treaty, signed by the Imperial Commissioners and Sir
J. Davis, which was to the effect, that at a fixed pe-
riod of next year the city of Canton should he opened to
British subjects. By the same accounts it appeared
that one of the principal articles in the Nankin Treaty
had been violated. That art isle provides that British
merchants should Hot, as they had hitherto
been compelled to sell their commodities through certain
Chinese guilds, but that thoY should sell them through

SCOTCH BILLS.—PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
Ax Hox. MEMBER referred to the Scotch Marriages
and Registration Bill. He understood they were not to
be proceeded with. What did the Noble Lord propose
doing with the Publ c Health Bill and the Towns Im-
provement Bill ?

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said there were all importer t
Bills, and he should be glad to have the opinion of the
House whether they should be proceeded with or not.
The Scotch Members had certainly expressed a strong
disinclination to the Scotch Bills.
JUVENILE OFFENDERS.
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to ask the Attorney-General
a question with respect to a Bill which, though it had
not excited much attention, was, nevertheless, to his
mind, one of the utmost importance—the Juvenile
Offenders Bill.—(Hear, hear.) As the Members con-
nected with quarter sessions would be absent next week,
he hoped he would not then bring it on, but he trusted
ir.would be proceeded with this session.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL intended to proceed
with the Bill this session, but should not bring it for•
ward whilst the Gentlemen referred to were absent.
Mr. HUME sincerely trusted that as the private
Members had given up the Thursdays, that the
Government would not now press for the
Tuesdays, for if they did, how was it possible
at the hour on which such questions might
come on as a difference of the Irish Church.—(Laud
laughter.) It was quite evident that the Noble Lord
hed no conscience.—(Renewed laughter.) He did 11,:pe
then that the Government would not deprive private
Members of the only advantage that they pos-essed.
MERCHANT SEAMEN'S FUND.
Mr. GLADSTONE wished to ask a question respect-
inr the intention of the Government concerning the
interest of the mercantile marine. He had hoped that
some Bill would have been introduced, and until lately he
had hoped that a Bill would have been passed this session
for the regulation of the Merchant Seamen's Fund. No
matter was of more importance to the commercial in-
terests of the country; and if it were much longer delayed
it must of necessity become much more costly than it
would be now. Yet, although all expectation ofpasiing such
* chain the prooos4 :onion must of coupe be laid

asid., he did hope that some Bill on the subject would
be laid on the tab!e before the Hom,e broke up, as
though little progress could at present he made, the
future funherance of the mea6ure would be greatly
facilitated.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL could give no positive
answer to the question of the Right Hon. Gentleman, or
pledge himself to anything which he was not sure of ac-
complishing.

-VIE NAVIGATION LAWS.
Mr. lIERRIES wished to put a question to the Noble
Lord at the Head of the Foreign Department resp'•cting
the probability that existed of any relaxation being made
in the navigation•laws of the United States, in reply to
the relaxation which had been made in our own laws,
and if so when such concession was likely to be made.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Constitution of
the United States required the President to
grant relaxations in the laws which regulated the
commerce of that country in ports in the Pacific,
not ports belonging to the United States, equal
to those granted by the Powers holding any other pos-
sessions in that ocean, but he had no expectation that
any relaxation of the American tariff would at present
be made.

ECCLESIASTICAL PLURALITIES.
Mr. HUME complained that the returns of pluralities
which were ordered to be given four months ago had
not been produced. He thought that if the officials
in the several offices from which they were to
emanate were overburthened with work, that the best
thing that could be done would be to dismiss them.—
(Laughter.) If there was any Lope of the returns being
made be should be glad to hear when they were likely
to be made.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the returns were very
weighty, but would appear as soon as they could be made.

THIRD READINGS.

The following Bills were read a third time:--
Irish Turnpike.
Marriages in Foreign Countries.
Sewers Act Amendment,
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.

In answer to a question from Mr. E. DENISON,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he believed that the
Ecclesiastical Commission would report during the
recess.

STATE OF THE NATION.
Mr. DISRAELI rose to bring forward his motion—
' That this House will resolve itself into a Committee of
the whole House, to take into consideration the
state of the nation." He said—l rise, Sir, to make
a statement to the House on the motion of which
I have given notice. I do so, because in
my opinion great and general distress prevails
in this country—(Hear, hear)—and because I be.
lieve that this great and general distress has been
progressive since the formation of the present
Government. The Noble Lord and his colleagues
have possessed the government of this country for three
years, uncontrolled and unscrutinized.—(Laughter.)
They have passed all their measures—they have not
had to encounter an ordinary opposition.—(Hear.)
No body of men have enjoyed the government of this
country heretofore under circumstances so favourable
as those possessed by the Noble Lord and his col-
leagues. That being the case, one is inclined to contrast
the situation of England at the present moment with
what it was at the period when the Noble Lord and his
colleagues assumed the reins of power. I need not recal
to the recollection of Hon. Gentlemen the state and condi-
tion of England at the commencement, I would say, of tho
year 1846. In all its relations profound tranquillity pre-
vailed throughout Europe, and if any of those criti-
cal conjunctions that will always be occasionally occur-
ring in the complicated transactions of great states
did ever arise, so great was the influence of England, and
so justly great, that the kindly mediation of
our country uniformly resulted in the amicable
settlement of those questions at issue. Al that
moment also our colonies, after suffering great vicissi-
tudes—l will not stop here to say vicissitudes which were
the cons' quences of our inconsistent legislation,— but
after enduring great vicissitudes, our colonies had re-
conciled themselves to the new position in which
they were placed; and great, as some thought,
insuperable as were the difficulties with which they had
to contend, there had existed in our colonies a quality
which I fear no one can pretend exists at tie present
moment—hope.—( Hear, hear.) At that period,
the commencement of 1846, our export trade had reached
an amount which never before had been achieved
by the people of this country. At that period those
various classes that form what is popularly called the
agricultural interest were prospering, not so much by the
enjoyment of what is called high prices, but by being en-
abled to produce froni the soil a greater quantity of produce
than they bad for many years, and being sure of a
market where that produce would be disposed of.
At that period the state of Ireland, if not en-
tirely satisfactory to those who were its real
friends—it still it were the victim of political empiricism,
and the only cure for its evils was still to be
considered —if still it were to be sent mes-
sages of peace— was, nevertheless, compared
with its present state, one only of comparative
happiness.— (Hear, hear.) And, finally, in her
Majesty's Exchequer there existed a surplus
revenue between 3,000,0001. and 4,000,0001. sterling.
The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to draw a still fur-
ther comparison between the state of the country and
its state when Lord John Russell came last into power.
Notwithstanding all the sacrifices that have been made
by the colonies—caorificea which no body of men ever
yet before endured and met with equal spirit—they
were told that they had to make still
greater exertions. Not satisfied with possess-
ing an ample surplus revenue, and discreetly
administering it, we were told that the tea duty must be
taken off immediately.—(Hear.) Notwithstanding we
possessed the greatest influence in our external relations,
tnd mainly secured the tranquillity of Europe, that
did not satisfy us. What we wanted to pos •
sess was ncthing else but perpetual peace and
cosmopolitan tranquillity.--(Laughter and cheers.) Welt,
Sir, what has been the consequences of these aspirations?
Three years and a half have elapsed and we have upon
this table the most elaborate and most authentic evidence
of the condition of the people. I apprehend that Hon.
Gentlemen will agree with me that the best test
of national prosperity is the employment of the great
mass of the working classes—(Loud cries of "Hear,
hear")—of the working population at a fair rate of pro-
fitable wages.—(Hear, hear.) I mean, by profitable
wages, wages that will leave a profit to the em-
ployer; otherwise the wages enjoyed by the
employed would have very little prospect of lasting.
(Hear, hear.) The rise and fall of pauperism, especially
when there are great fluctuations, are the best test of the
state of the body politic, and especially when
we consider the condition of the able-bodied
poor. (Hear, hear.) Now, when the House
is employed in considering political systems, all sup-
ported by great ability, and when there is such rivalry
of economic theories, we are very apt to pause
and take general views of affairs, we are very
apt to forget, or rather nut to be conscious
of the changes which are occurring hourly
beneath us, and about us, and the alteration is not drawn
to these results until they are realised. If we look to the
state of the able-bodied poor in England at the com-
mencement of 1846, and the condition of the able-bodied
poor is England, up to the last period
when we have authentic information on the
subject, we find a startling result—Bear, hear)—
I am not bringing before the House any factitious state-
ments, nor any an ‘nymous letters—no correspondence, how-
ever credible, excepting that which is officially authenticated
to the House. I avail myselt of no illegitimate mod -f
. . _

.... ineg. ~.. mode of neve it is continental convulsion,
or railway investment, or commercial speculation, or the
bringing
Irish famine, that ha> caused this decline in the exchange-
met by any data or in-
forward or supporting the statement which I have.
to make, and I trust I shall not be h h
able value of the English workman's labour. It is the hos-
tile tariffs of foreige nations— (Hear, hear)—which you have
mfo exchange-
formation twi onn restingprepe
propositions
toi
nnns slighter
and
conclusionsgr o und s t
aarnte those on
founded. which
The
of the E glish to encounter, which no policy of yours has yet modified, and
Souse at present has before it tie report
which the system you are pursuing aggravates in their con-
andesequences.—(Hear, hear.) I have often taken occasion to
condition of this country at this time an
able-bodiedef
paupers a
Poor-law Commissioners, which very plainly shdowins tthheePstyater
reci-
pauperslB46s state the principles upon which I thiek the theory of i9nfcrtehaseeProcity in commerce depends; but hitherto I have done so
andincretahs
ee
with all the disadvantages which, in an assembly like this,
generally, taking all classes, was not less. than 41 per cent.
Whaisthbineenth7l pteirme cent.,the
any one must endure who appeals only to abstract reason.
The report of the Commissioners shows within that timenut
l ans
Now, however, we have practical results befo e us—in the
increase in the expenses of the poor amounting to
shows that e
thees the sufferings, unfortr.nately, of the people of this country,
than 25 per cent., and the report further
and in the decline of our wealth— which illustrate the
Lady-day, 1846, was 382,417,whi1e the numberof
number of able-bodied poor relieved in the quarter ending
theory. It has been said, indeed, that the principles upon
poor relieved in the quarter ending Lady-day, 1848, was which the reciprocity system of commerce is based are
incontrovertible as far as they go, but that they
666,338, while the number of all classes relieved in the quarter
ending Lady-day, ir46, was 1,332,0'9, and that in the quarter only apply to direct trade between nations; and inasmuch
ending Lady-day, 1848, was 1,867,541. From thesame authen- as the transactions of the world are carried on very little
by direct trade, they are in fact of no influence in the con-
tic statements it appears that the expenditure for the rel4ef4of
1 duct of affairs: But I think the critics who are so prompt
and that for the year ending Lady-day, 1848, appears to be
the poor for the year ending Lady-day, I4G, was 4,954,-0
" to make these observations are little acquainted with the
6,180,761/. I venture to think that, with such facts as these theory of commercial reciprocity. In my opinion we can
only encounter the hostile commercial tariffs of foreign
before me, I was excusable—nay, fully justified—in bringing
countries by countervailing duties, and I think such a sys-
such a motion as this before the House.—(Cheers.) When
tem occasions not scarcity and dearness, but cheapness and
we find that within the short period of three years the in-
abundance. I say that one of the principal causes of the
crease of the able-bodied poor has arisen to the height of 74
distress of the people of England is, that you have estab-
lished a new commercial system, which mistakes the prin-
per cent., r say that the state of the country does demand an,
ciples upon which a profitable exchange can take place be-
deplorableiven for these
inquiry by this House of Parliament (Hear, hear.)
know that very many ready reasons may be g
tween nations; that the consequence of your adopting this
I system is to render British labour of a less exchangeable
results, and I have not forgotten that the Commis-
sioners have given some reasons on this subject; but all
Value; that its result must be diminution of profits and de-
-thethese evils may be accounted for without altering the result
pression of wages; and that if you persist in your system,
instead of finding means for ameliorating the condition of
stern facts remain unchanged. I am aware that the
great extent of manufacturing depression is said to account,,
the people, and increasing the resources of the country by
for what has taken place, that the immigration from Ireland the foreign commerce upon which you rely, you will only
into England has greatly contributed to it but I take upon secure further depression and further diminution, till you
myself to say that the House will fall into a very greatu, reduce the labourer, not to what is popularly
mistake ifs it supposes that manufacturing depression is sit awe
called the continental level, but below the continental
tient to ccount for such extraordinary results. level— (Hear, hear)—for the whole scope and spirit of
agricul-
now before me papers supplied by the Poor-law I coam- your systen2 is to ren:er the labour of this country tributary'
missioners setting forth the condition of twelve
rin
contending against hostile tariffs by free imports. It is •
to the labour of other countries. This is the great result of
tonal counties and twelve manufacturing . counties
.adu
one
the period from 1846 to 1845; yet, though i
opinions, as I think, justified by the stern facts with which
unnecessary for me to say that, holding these opinions—
county the manufacturing depression must
thi.asvceoubneten
much felt, and the immigration from Ireland to this
we have to deal—l take a gloomy view of the state of our
to
chiefly endured, yet those results are not sufficient itio account
for all, nor anything like all, that has been imputed
e has
a s and b
?t
ehyne. •
foreign commerce; and I cannot look to our expolts, stimu-
lated on a system which does not increase, but which
those causes. The average increase of the rates in the 12
diminishes the profits of the labouring
Ilititert.o, in England, when ourforeign grassescommerc
manufacturing counties appears to be 391 per cent., while
capitalists, as a source of the renovation this country,
4of thepoor that of the agricultural distric's was about 161, and the
increase of the expense of maintaining all classes
2p
suffering from drpression, the industry in our
throughout England was something under 25 per. cent. ( 4i).
_ manufacturing
districts has been sustained by what is
In Hereford, a purely agricultural county, the increase was
popularly called the
home market. Now, Sir, I have obse
21 per cent., while in Buckinghamshire, I regret to say, it
rved that great con-
the fusion subsists with regard to th
is 22 per cent. Considering, then, that this is the. state of
at phrase. It is one of very
common use and I have heard the country,
Iconceive it to be the first duty of this I1ous3 Hon. Gentlemen in this
II ' '
to enter upon an examination of the subject, and I am of opt-
• ouse use it, on the same night,
and in the same de-
bate and
Mon that this is the right form in which to bring it under .
~ attribute to it very different mean-
the notice of the House.—(Cheers.) I perceive that my Hon. 'DP. The Hon. Member for the West Riding, in
Friend the Member for Montrose has given notice of an dilating upon the value of the home market, has always
amendment to my motion ; that Honourable Gentlemen formed his estimate of it by the quantity of of
is fond of giving notice of amendments, which is somewhat foreign imports which are consumed by the valiousarticles classes
surprising, for he does not
generally succeed in carrying his that constitute what is called the agricultural interest ; and
amendments. Mr. Fox has been heard to say, that there he has said that ths consumption of a million of peasants,
was at play not only the pleasure of winning but the plea. and '200,000 ur 300,000 farmers, ~nd a few proprietors, how-
sure of losing also. Now, the latter source of satisfaction is ever gre ,t might be their consumption of articlei of foreign
one that my Hon. Friend has very often enjoyed; and, on import, could not be crmparett with the demands of all the
the present occasion, he was so intent upon securing it that . nations of the woi ld. Now, that is not my idea of what is
he gave notice of his amendment before he even heard the meant by the home market. I do not undervalue the
terms of my motion.—(Hear, hear.) From some chance ob- : Power of consum the ious classes ng the
servations, I imagine that he objects to it on the ground of
agricul.ural filtere pd, tion
butof this isvar not my idea offormi the home
its not being sufficiently definite—on the ground that I have m irket. I think it is of great import, nee that we should
not laid before the House a set of res,,lutions; but I think 11,-.ve correct ideas on this subject, and I will put before the
almost every Hon Member must agree with me, that the House what 1 conceive to be the nature of the home mar-
course which lam taking is the regular and constitutional ket, ad hit upon this country.
course, that it is intelligible, and cannot be mistaken. Be- j
I will putthe
it before influence
thewhic House onexerci a ogreat authority—ono
Wes, if 1 tecollect right; the Up. Gutleigag wag a Dbilibez ' kith Which Hon. Gentlemen opposite rill not quarrel—the

fof this House in 1813, when Mr. Tie __._._
rne made asimilar
motion, though no doubt the Member for Montrose then voted against that motion. Doubtless if I had framed my
motion differently I might have fished for a stray vote here
or I might have , aught one there—(Hear, hear)—but that
was not my object ; 1 wished to bring the state of the country
fully and openly before the House, and to state frankly—as
is my duty to my constituents and to myself—the reasons
why I cannot give my confidence to the present Administra-
tion. Ido not overlook the fact that there may be found
many who will tell the House that the Government of this
country is carried on upon right principles, but not by the
right men, but my opiui al is this —that if England is to be
governed on Whig principles, I prefer that it should be go-
verned by Whigs. (Hear, hear.) Considering, then, that
the system of government pursued by the present Ministry
tends to the decay of the country, I give them a frank—l hope not an ungenerous, but certainly an uncompromising
opposition, and I take this opportunity of laying before the
House the reasons why we are in opposition. I want to
know why the condition of the people of England should
thus have been deteriorating. It is quite true that the pre-
sent Government are not formally responsihle for all the
measures in operation during the year 1846—the alteration
of the tariff, for example ; but I apprehend they will not
shrink from that responsibility.—(" Hear, hear," from the
Treasury bench.) They supported and accepted those mea-
sures, aod from the statement which the Noble Lord made on
the subject, we have every reason to believe that his not
being then in office was merely owing to an accident, and
that but for that accident he would have been the Minister
to open the Parliament of 1846, and himself have pro-
posed similar measures. One cause of this distress is that, not-
withstanding the continental c,,nvulsions, the goods ex-
potted are equal to the great years of 1845 and 1846,
yet the declared value of goods in those years averaged
59,500,0001., hut in 1848 it was only 53,000,0001., so that our
working people for that same quantity of goods received
6,500,000/. less in 1848 than in 1845. The first reason, and
perhaps the principal reason, that will be assigned for this
decline and decay in the condition of the country, will be
the famine in Ireland, or course, the investments in rail way
undertakings naturally, the operations of commercial specu-
lation for several years, and the continental c nvulsions for
the purpose of completing the climax.—(Cheers.) The
famine in Ireland, no doubt, was a great calamity, but it has
its limits—it was not sufficient to disturb the peace of
Europe—not to place our colonies in their present position—
not to destroy our formerly flourishing foreign trade—not to
depress our agriculture or exhaust our finances; all that we
suffer is not to be attributed to that cause. I enter my pro-
test against all these being imputed to the Irish famine. I
have not heard much of speculation in foreign trade, but
considerable stress has been laid on railway investments. I
presume I need scarcely remind the House that railway un-
dertakings have been going on for a very long time, and no
one expected from them any other than beneficial results;
but now those who approved of them (like all par-
ties engaged in unsuccessful speculations) turn round and
begin to abuse each other. Those, too, who lay the most
stress on the effect of such investments are the middle class,
I that only class said to be competent to the government of
this country—they turn round on the railway investments,
and impute to them, as a cause, evils of which they certainly
have not been the moving principle. On the contrary, it is
my full persuasion that we do not suffer from any want of
capital, because it is at this moment notorious that any man
with good security can get as much money as he wants. I
repeat, then, it is not want of capital that has diminished the
commerce of England ; but then, we shall have the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer accounting for it all upon his fa-
vourite ground—the continental convulsions. Now, I should
like to see the data, the facts which justify that cool assump-
tion. I say that they ought to be investigated, and I have
no doubt that, if they were, it would be seen that the differ-
ence between our condition in 1846 and that which we cc-
cupy in 1848, is owing to other causes than the continental
convulsions; and what I want is, that those causes should
be laid bare before the uouse in lull deign. At present,
we have them not, and in this day of rapid pro-
greo3 I cannot help expressing considerable surprise that we
should be now, late in 1849, without sufficient information
as to our condition in a commercial point of view during a
period which elapsed between this and 1846. lam persuaded
there would- be no difficulty whatever in giving us these de-
tails at a much earlier period; and I hope the President of
, the Board of Trade, who, I am bound to say, is always ready
to attend to any suggestions of advantage to public business,
will give his attention to the subject. I have, however, a
return of the total exports of cotton goods in 1848. We hear
of continental convulsions which have caused a diminution
of our exports; but it appears that in 1848, notwithstanding
the continental convulsions, there was an immet.se increase
in the export of cotton goods.—(Hear, hear.) Remember
that cotta n go:3s fo m one-half the entire ( f our exports;
yet in 1848 the, e was an increase in our export of cotton
goods of 88,000,000 yards over the export of the preceding
year. There is another reason why I doubt whether
athere has been a diminution of our exorts. I
m indebted to the courtesy of the - Presipdent of
the Board of Trade for a return which has only just been com-
pleted of the entire imports and exports during the years
1847 and 1848. I find from this return that on contrasting
the much maligned year of 1848—the year of continental
convulsions—with the great years 1845 and 1846, there has
been no diminution in the quantities of goods exported.—
(Hear, hear.) The official value of goods denotes their
quantity. The average official value of the exports of 1845
and 1846 was 133,000,000/. The total value of the exports
in the year 1848, in consequence of continental convulsions,
was 132,904,00C1. ; nearly the same amount. But mark
the significant fact--the average of 1845 and 1846, in de-
clared value, was 59,500,0001., but the declared value of
1848 was only 53,000,000/.—(Hear, hear.) That is a most
important consequence, full of instruction, and I recommend
Hon. Gentlemen--and especially the advocates of free trade
carefully to consider that result, and if they can, satisfac-
torily to explain it. We have it here upon the records of the
Government that the working classes of this country received
in 1848, 6,500,000/. less than they obtained in 1845 and 1846
for the same quantity of goods exported.—(Hear, hear.),
Now, Sir, it may perhaps be said that in fixing upon the
commercial year concluding at the beginning of 1616, and
contrasting it with the commercial year ending in 1849, I
am taking an advantage of the Government, because we
have the tables of the hoard of Trade, whieh give us returns
of the commerce of the country for four months of the pre-
sent year, ana which show a consleerable increase in our
exports. I can assure the Right Hon. Gentleman that lam
far from wishing him to lose the advantage of these tables;
but I am bound to say that in this evidence that has been
offered us of the revival of trade, and the more satisfactory
condition of our workmen, I find consequences exactly the
reverse, and reasons to make me view the future condition of
the working classes of this country with increased gloom.
There are, 1 think, 65 articles of export enumerated in the
tables of the Board of Trade; and of these I find that 41 ex-
hibit a great depreciation in value. I find that a larger
quantity of goods was exported from this country in the
thur months of 1842 than in the first four months of 1848;
but that those goods have been exported at a much di-
minished price. In nine of these articles it appears
there has been a slight appreciation. There are fifteen
articles where the gross value alone is given, and not the
quantity; and therefore it is not calculable what may be the
appreciation or the depreciation. Upon the 41 articles de-
preciated, which were sold to foreigners in the first four
months of this
been (in round numbers) 13,000,000/.,
there would have received, at the prices obtained last
year, 14,685,000. On the nine articles appreciated there
was an increase of price to the amount of 44,0001. But the
result is that in these first four months of 1849, which we
were told exhibited such satisfactory evidence of the revival
of trade, there is positively a net depreciation of price to the
amount of 1,738,0001.--( Hear, hear.) I will mention two or
three of the great items upon which this depreciation takes
place, There is a depreciation on cotton goods exported,
oempared with the price of 1848, of 646,000/. ; upon
woollen goods exported in 1849, as compared with 1848, of
19:5,000.; upon linen goods, of upwards of 100,•001.; and
upon metals, of upwards of 400,000/. How are you to ex-
plain this? How do you account for this depreciation? You
may tell me the raw material is cheaper this year than it
was last.— ( Hear, hear.) But the fact is, that the raw ma-
terial is dearer than it was last year. I will take the article upon
which the greatest depreciation takes place —that of cotton.
The average price of the fair quality of cotton for the first
four months of 1848 was 41/td. and one• third, and in 1849 it
was nearly 41/2d. Now, a farthing in the pound upon cotton
is no light appreciation of value ; yet the English workman
has been obliged to receive for his labour 646,0004 less than
he did last year. I think, S r, this proves that which I have
taken occasion frequently to impress upon the consideration
of the House—namely, that you have made a mistake as to
the principles of profitable interchange between nations.
(Hear, hear.) Ido not belie"-