The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-23 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 23, 1849.

dissatisfied with the arrangements of the Turkish Govern-
ment, who had shown the must praiseworthy anxiety to
meet the wishes of the inhabitaptz, for N:bile, on the one
hand, they had givt n an amnesty to the parties engaged
in these disturbances, en the other they E how(d an
auxious desire to investigate complaints and make inch
reforms as would be likely to sat;sfy the reasonable de-
mands of the people. He agreed with his Hon. Friend
the Member for Bradford that it was most &sirable to

f„,
nee to other products would show a result no less
far arable to the former then that to which we have
arrived as ropects the most important branch of our
facturing industry."— (Hear, hear.) He f1101.11(1
be t' letthat these' goods were only sent to Turkey in
iransins to others parts; but should we even enjoy this
eat.tr.g if Turkey were in the hands of Russia? And
if that event should happen, how long would Persia re-
main independent? It would be urged that the aid of
smugglers would be called in to prevent the exclu-
la of our goods; but this would only operate as a miti-
gation of the evil, and not as a cure. He did not call on
Government to resist the progress of Russia by ar-
maments or war, but by giving its assistance to Turkey.
Not long ago the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign
'airs had said, that when this country gave advice, it
t: s always listened to, and never spurned. Let the Noble
Lord exert the moral influence of Eugland to prevent the
encroachments of Russia, and give support to a country
I° identified with our best interests. Had the Noble
Lord been more alive to these matters, a great deal of harm
ttglit have been prevented. If last year, when Russia
tirst entered Moldavia—which she did with great hesita-
eons disavowing the General whose act it was—the Noble
rd had assumed a firm attitude, and used determined
language, and had shown that the proceedings in Molda•
,
Were looked on with the greatest distrust and the
most determined aversion by the British Government,
Russia would have soon retired altogether. If the Noble
rd laid the papers on the table they would see whether
2 Was wrong or not in attributing to the Noble Lord a
"Mt of determination, and he therefore hoped the papers
leould not be withheld.---(Hear, hear.)
t Colonel THOMPSON would state to the house the
:evens which, in his opinion, gave an importance to the
motion of the Noble Lord. Honourable Gentlemen who
bore in the habit of looking around upon the political
izon might probably have felt some suspicion that
the position of England, like all other sublunary things,
sits
b. very far from stationary. It had been said by a
dHonourable Baronet in that House, but whom he
"Id not then see in his place, that the naval supremacy
this country, upon which their forefathers had for so
ItnY years prided themselves, was not to be calculated
tn as an immutable thing, certain to descend to their
e
ildren. They saw a great republic growing up on the
Other side of the Atlantic, the members of which did not
'Pear to be always actuated by the best of feelings towards
I'4 country. He had seen an American guide-book which
21,tilutely been published, and he was curious to see in
m 'at manner it might indicate the sentiments of the
People
of that country. The writer of the book said
at, upon passing the Horse Guards, be thought of the
tihte when 50,000 American troops should be drawn up
1,;1 array behind it; and while gazing upon Windsor
'itstle he thought that many years might not elapse be-
',are he saw the flaunting bunting on its towers replaced
7 the modest stars and stripes of the great repub-
li
e.—(Laughter.) Looking round upon what was pass-
ing
in the world, he could not help thinking that the
ground was shifting away from them; and as with Ire-
4ice, Genoa, Holland, and other countries in Europe, so
pith this country, there might be a time coming when
they would hold their ground, it must not be upon
chits old foundation, or upon the supposition that they
could hand down to their posterity anything like the
comparative or relative power which Er gland had en-
Sled in past ages, unless they could contrive to make
struggle
somewhere and with somebody in the great
juggle which everybody knew was going on between
at'lliZatioll and political liberality, against barbarism and
despotism. He was anxious not to omit any of portunity
of holding before the eyes of the Government, which,
P:thaPs, might not be blind to this subject, that there
the same position as that held by their ancestors in the
'rile' of Elizabeth and Cromwell—the woman and the
1114 a to whoua their greatness was mainly owing.—(Hear
e 111..) He believed that there was a great weakness of
argumentt among Hon. Members on the opposite side
131:°11 this subject. He did not wish it for a moment to
thought that he was pleading for war; he hated it,
end
great warriors had said so before him.—(Hear,
e
Itea
—) He earnestly trusted that the Government would
consent,i to lay before the House some information to
fh9w that they had felt an interest in the subject.—
rar, hear.) Such being his view of the importance of
f" ,e question brought forward by the Noble Lord, he
e'!_ great pleasure in seconding the motion.—(Cheers.)
iliLord PALMERSTON said he should best discharge
„,1 duty to the House in rising after the seconder of the
motion in in order to state the view he took of the motion
lih,ja Noble Friend. He fully retained the opinions his
ilt)ote Friend had quoted from a former speech of his—
(4 it was desirable for the interests, and creditable to
he honour of this country, that the House of Commons
shouldti; take a lively interest in the foreign relations of
18 country. And he owned that it was sometimes a
41 !tter of regret to him, when out as well as when in
Q;',lee, that the foreign relations of the country should
it cue so little interest within those walls. For although
hetaight be inconvenient to the person filling the office
had the honour to hold, that the frequent discussion
‘)I these questions should be intrt duced, yet any man
oho felt that he was honestly discharging his duty must
4`-'IE at least for the support of the majority of that douse;
:c1 he need not say that that support would greatly
strengthen the hands of any Minister in his relations with
'foreign, Powers. Nevertheless, he did not feel it eon-
tlltent with his duty on the present occasion to consent
ti/1 the motion of his Noble Friend, for the reason that
°napers he called for were connected with discussions
~,,
"tell were still going on, and it was the universally re-
ii?Zised rule of that house that inconvenience was
,:
k„tel to arise from tro unfiished corre-
cY dence respectinghe maptterd uctions
whichof were still pending.
h (Hear, hear.) He could assure the Noble Lord that
g was greatly mistaken if he supposed that the ques-
lioll to which lie had called the attention of the Millie
erasll not considered by the Government as one of great
national and, indeed, of European, importance. was
Suite
ready to agree in every word that had fallen from
e Noble Lord as to the necessity of maintaining the
l4ikiucpendence of Turkey. It was of vast importance
th in i ally a
it
potical and a comme p of view. wasP
hardly necessary ial
to gooint into any argu-
'its to show, that it those vast regions which were at
wit debt under the dominion of the Sultan were to be par-
-4,loned among the other powers, that could not be done
11, t:thout a great European contest, without material de-
d dngement of the balance of power, and without great
i!triment to those powers which did not share
balance
the spoil. In short, it would derange the existing
of power in Europe. And es England could
neither wish for, nor possess, any share in the spoil of
inch a transaction, she certainly could not share in such
transaction. That opinion was not confined to this
i°antr. he House might be assured that the other
ding powers of Europe were equally sensible of the
great importance of maintaining the ictegrity and inde-
tadence of the Turkish empire. That independence
14(1 been recognised and cared for in the treaty of 1841,
);:q. regulating the passage of ships of war through the
i.ardanelles. He was satisfied that none of the great
rowers who were parties to that treaty would attempt to
infringe the principles so solemnly recorded in the pre-
,uble of that treaty. Her political independence then
L. 43 admittedly of great importance. Commercially,
the
Noble Friend had in no degree overstated
ve case. It was true that there was no country
thah which they had great commercial transactions
,i,et the tariff was so law or so liberal as in Turkey.
ha trade with Turkey was, besides, en annually
increasing trade; so far from having reached its maxi-
420ea, it was still advancing, and it the improvements
Which were being carried out in that country still con-
tihaed, b which increasing security would be afforded
()individuy als and property, and greater protection to the
occupations of industry and the employment of capital,
1
45Y would find with that their commerce increasing, not
thrl(l3Y with. which but with every trading nation; and
.3e regions were formerly the centres of human
and
would again approach their former condition,
increasing
their connexion with Turkey would be of annually
and
importance. Under these circumstances,
ikl with these views, it would have been a dere-
'titaa of duty on his part if he had seen with apathy
4,11 d indifference the transactions which, in any way,
1 °wever indirect, appeared to boar upon the indepen•
deuce,, of Turkey—and such undoubtedly must be the
Vnia facie appearance of the occupation of two provinces
Turkey by a neighbouring power. Explanations
"e given at the time by the Russian Government, and
L(:),,kmunications—some verbal and some written—had
n ever since going on between himself and the Ruse
47e110 Minister at the Court of St. James's, and between
the
Russian and Turkish Ministers at Constantinople.
There representations had been made in the most friendly
spine—in the spirit of those friendly relations which
!zisted between that country and Russia. They had
been received in the same spirit—and whatever the com-
munications might have been, the House might be antis-
fied that in no degree had they produced any alteration
in the friendly relations between the two countries.
When the occupation of these provinces first took place,
lit_ circular was issued by the Russian Government, which
"0 held in his hand, stating the reasons that had in-
anced Russia to sanction the advance of Russian
troops, and stating the contingency under which
that advance bad taken place, and under which
lhe occupation would cease. The general ground
It which the sanction was given—he said the
°ltnetion, because he believed that the immediate ad-
Varlee was from a communication between the Turkish
authorities and die Russian general commanding—but
that was sanctioned afterwards by the Russian Govern-
iskent, After stating the grounds on which the advance
Passage,
taken place, the circular stated, in the following
Psage, the contingency on which that occupation would
,lePend. Count Nesselrode said, after alluding to a for.
mew occupation, " The same thing will happen this time
-18° • and from the moment Wallachia and Moldavia
shall have order re-established, or that the Porte thinks
tt) has acquired a sufficient point d'appui for the en-
ire peace of the two provinces, our troops shall be with-
drawn, end shall again re-occupy that position
Ii Was
defensive which they originally occupied."
Was of course open to anybody to say that when he
viSeed confidence in the views of any Government, he
ryas likely to be deceived. He (Lord Palmerston) could
Only say that whatever might be urged en either the
one
_ side or the other as to the grounds on which the
,7eupation took place, that he placed confidence in
We'R
us.sian Governmnt, and that he believed th4tl no intention off making a permanent encroachey •
went
upon the Turkish empire, and he was es rtainly
convinced that the question pending between the Russian
Government and the Turkish Government was merely a
question of time, and not one of principle or of ulterior
intentions. Since the events had happened which bad
agitated Europe, the Russian Government had shown a
great desire to remain in an expectant attitude, and had
1.(1,.t interfered in the internal affairs of other countries.
ua grounds assigned for the interference in the present
instance was the revolutionary movements of these pro •
v :lees, and their being supposed to be connected with
r tieh more extensive arrangements, and that it was to
,Hard her own provinces from extensive movements that
~
Provinces.
contemplated, and she felt bound to occupy these
Vi"itices. His Noble Friend had stated very correctly
e Proems of that insurrection. It was perfectly true
that
iLoldavia and Wallachia bad been for a long time

assert the moral power of that country—and it was,
doubtless, very great, unless, by her own fault, she
should forfeit it lie could assure him that it was the

wish of her ➢tajesty's Government to maintain it by
every poisible means. A country strong in itself, and
which could not be supposed to be actuated by fear, was
enabled to couch its communications in a manner calcu-

lated not to wound the feelings of other states, and by
that means it was frequently enabled to confer essen-
tial benefits upon the parties concerned, end promote
the interests of peace, to which his Honourable
Friend had so
_ably alluded and so well described.
With regard to the question before the House, the
Government had taken that part in the discussion which,

as the friend to both parties, were best calculated
to forward the objects they had in view, and he trusted
the question of time, being the only question now pend-
ing between the two powers, would be ultimately settled
to the mutual satisfaction of both.—(llear.) He was dis-

posed to finish there, did he not know that the state of
those affairs had created a great deal of discus.ion out
of doors, from the apprehension that that question would
lead to an interruption of those friendly relations. It
was alleged that certain orders that had recently been

given by Turkey for the usual naval and military pre-
parations—that the announcement of the usual equip-
ment of a squadron at that season, and the march of
troops to the northern provinces for review, were some-
what suspicious, and that had led to a disclaimer of any
hostile intentions. He trusted that these statements

would prove well founded, and that the negotiations
which were then pending would terminate to the satis-
faction of both parties, and without disturbance to the
general peace of Europe.—(Wear.)
Mr. ANSTEY said matters had now assumed so
serious an aspect in the east of Europe that if England
was what she had formerly been she would not then be
discussing the present question in the House of Com-
mons. He maintained that a fearful blow had been struck

at British interests when the first Russian so!dier had

passed the boundary of those principalities. They had
seen on the part of Russia perfidy after perfidy, and
fraud after fraud, and yet the Noble Lord told the House
that he relied upon her honourable intentions, because
she had signed the treaty of June, 1841. He contended
that the English Government was bound to interfere,
and to insist upon the immediate withdrawal of every
Calmuck and Russian from that soil, which they pol-
luted by their presence. These provinces were 30.000
square miles in extent, and no less than 20,000 of them
were rich and fertile lands. This territory was inha-

bited by a population now of upwards of 4,000,000. This
population was capable of supplying our markets with
every commodity which we were now reduced to pur.
chase, at enhanced prices and inferior quality, in Russia.
They were willing to receive payment for their com-
modities, not in money, but in British produce. The
mouths of the Danube were so choked up with sand as
to make it impossible to carry on properly the timber
trade, which was formerly the most thriving trade in
those parts. At this moment there were not more than
eight:or nine feet of water, and the vessels that could
enter there were of two small a size to conduct properly
that trade. Russia had beset every mouth and access

with her quarantine regulations; so that if even a letter
be allowed by the Russian authorities to pass, we owe it
to their forbearance, or, as the phrase is—their magna-

nimity. The consequence was that British trade in Mel-

daviai was now wholly extinguished. Our merchants
were forced against their will to go to Odessa and other
ports, vthich, it might be said, enjoyed the advantage
of the prohibitory tariff of Russia. The question the
House had now to decide was, whether we were strong
enough in our foreign, commercial, and politi-
cal relations, to submit to this great loss of political
influence and commerce in the territory he had

described. If Wallachia was suffered to import
and export freely, the trade of Russia was gone. So that
this was a case of life and death to Russia. If the policy
o' Russia, and he was afraid he might say the policy of
Great Britain, be suffered by Parliament to be carried
out in respect to these provinces, he feared that what
had been done in Moldavia and Wallachia would be imi-

tated by Russia in every other part of the Turkish do- 1
minions, so that the future occupation of the Dardanelles
would not be a question fur the statesman to consider,
but for the historian to record. He did not know what
information the Noble Lord had received from his diplo-
matic agents in this quarter, but he was authorised to
say by one of the highest authorities on this subject, that
every attempt was now being made by the Russian
general and the troops under him to stimulate and
exasperate, not only the population, but the Turkish
army of occupation, to aggressive measures against
Turkey. As to the Noble Lord's confidence
in the disclaimer of Russia in respect to any
aggressive intentions, it should be recollected
that Russia had never yet invaded any country with-
out heralding her advances by a disavowal of aggressive
designs. It was quite clear that Russia:would remain in
these provinces in spite of all that
Shad been said and
done; so that it was too much for the Noble Lord to say
that Russia would withdraw her ttoops. He should vote
for the motion of his Noble Friend, and he hoped that
Noble Lord would not yield to any persuasion to with-
draw it. If the Noble Lord did give way, ho (Mr. An-
stey) should feel it to be his duty to ask the House to
come to a division upon the question.
Mr. M. MILNES trusted that his Noble Friend (Lard
D. Stuart) would not press his motion upon such en im-
portant question to a division in so thin a House (about
fifty Members were present) as this happened to be.—
(Hcar, hear.) He (Mr. Mines) would not attempt to
follow the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who preceded
him into the various topics ho had adverted to in the
course of his speech, because he thought that the present
was not the time or the fitting opportunity for discussing
the to rms and principles of the treaty of Adrianople,
and other treaties of an equally ancient date. If this
country had failed in petorming its duty to humanity
with respect to its share in those treaties, he thought
the cause of any such failure was not attributable to the
Noble Lord now at the head of the Foreign Depart-
ment.—(Hear, hear) He saw no reason far supposing
that any dispute between Russia and Turkey could be
adjusted at the desire of this country. All it could pos-
sibly be expected to do was to exercise its moral ilifia-
ence to prevent any misunderstanding which was calcu-
lated to disturb the peace of the world. It was cer-
tainly very hard that Wallachia should be forced to
contract debts for the purpose of maintaining the troops
of Russia, and he hoped that his Noble Friend (Lord
Palmerston) did not countenance such an imposition.—
(Hear, hear.) He trusted that his Noble Friend might
feel it his duty to represent to the Government of Russia
that this nation dtd not approve of the system of
forcibly occupying a country with foreign troops
that did not require their presence or assistance.—
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord would do well to im-
press upon the Russian Government that in the opinion
of the English people it was vain for that Govern-
ment to declare that they had co ulterior object in view
in sending their troops to occupy foreign province 3.—
(Hear.) The evacuation of Moldavia and Wallachia by
the Russian troops was a subject that his Noble Friend
would do well to keep in mind. Let him take a firm
stand upon the matter without tiny attempt at dictation,
and he believed that the advice of England opportunely
given would have the effsct of restoring to those Turkish
provinces that independence in the scale of European
countries to which they were justly entitled.—(Hear.)
Mr. URQUHART said that the question before the
Hou e involved more than a mere motion for the pro-
duction of papers. It was a question whether an act of
oppression had not been committed against one ally of
the British Crown by another of its allies; and the an-
sa er must be that there had. The Noble Lord the Se-
cretary for Foreign Affairs said that the question between
Russia and Turkey_ was one of time. But in his (Mr.
Urquhart's) opinion, the question with regard to time
was not when Russia would deem it necessary to

give up her occupation of the provinces of Turkey, but
when Turkey would be able to resist and throw off the
system of oppression to which she had been subjected
for the last 150 years. Being an ally of both countries,
ho thought that friendly mediation uporlifour part to
settle the differences was perfectly justifiable, and ought
to have been applied. He trusted that the Noble Mem-
ber for Marylebone would press his motion to a divi-
sion, for the purpose of showing how few Members were
in the House upon this occasion, and hew small was the
number who sanctioned the general concurrence of the
Foreign Secretary in the acts of Russia.
Mr. HUME said he was disposed to think that the
Hon. Member for Pomfret (Mr. Milnes) had somewhat
magnified the power of Russia; though he (Mr. Hume)
had expressed himself frequently against the aggressive
policy of the Emperor of Russia, and he thought
that the introduction of questions of this sort was of
advantage, because opinions expressed in that House
and by the people of England were likely to
produce an effect even on the mind or such
a despot as the Emperor of Russia. He (Mr. Hume)
confessed that he thought there was not much
danger to be apprehended from Russia. Ho believed
the
.Emperor of Russia's present councils were leading
him into danger, which might ultimately render him as
helpless as were many other monarchs at the present
moment. The Noble Lord at the"head of the Foreign-
office had stated, that having offered the advice of an in-
dependent country like this, he thought that that advice
would be sufficient. He (Mr. Hume) was glad to hear
that, because there could be no doubt that honest advice
would ever produce a good effect. He certainly did not
believe that Russia intended to take permanent posses-
sion of those countries ; but at the same time it was
most desirable that this country should use the moral
influence it possessed to prevent the encroachments of
Russia. Be was glad to hear that harmony existed be-
tween France and this country, and he hoped that other
countries in Europe would be equally disposed to join
with them ; but whether they did or not, he was firmly
convinced that by the cordial co-operation of France and
England, even though it were against the inclination of
other powers, they would be able to maintain the peace
He would advise his Noble
of the world.—(Cheers.)
Friend not to endanger the advantage which had been
obtained by the introduction of his motion, for
during the time he had had the honour of
a seat in that House he did not recollect that any
Member ever rose and defended the course which Russia
had taken, and he believed that there was not only un-
animity in the House, but out of the House, upon the
subject of the aggressive character of Russia. It was on
this ground—whilst deprecating all interference by co-
ercion—that he thought it would be prudent and wise
in his Noble Friend not to press the House to a division,
but to accept the fact that negotiations were still pend-
ing, as a sufficient reason why he should not persist in
calling fi r the production of the papers.—(Hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI--Sir, I rise to express my hore
that the Noble Lord will not call upon the House to
divide upon the present occasion, for by so doing, I

thi :k that it will not advance the interests he is ad-

vocatiog. But lam opposed to those interests, and, of
course, the Noble Lerd will not take my advice. The
llon. Manber icr Montrose (Mr. Hume), as oce of his
reasons for recommending that the Noble Lord should
not go to a division on the pretent occasion, said he had
_ _

fund, which he termed a dunghill, had made his
being Chancellor of the Excht quer out of the
questicn, al.cl that in the Protectionist Govern-
ment which was about to be formed, the post of

sat in Parlknicnt a ecwsierable time—that there had

always been a unanimous feeling against the policy of Rus-
sia, and that the Autocrat and his policy had never been
mentioned without being denounced; and, therefore, he
recommends that the same course should be pursued on
the present as on former occasions—namely, that those
denunciations should be continued, and that divisions
should not be had recourse to —(hear, hear.) Now, the

.
only inference I should draw from the advice of the lion.
Gentleman would be rather against the counsel he re-
commends to you, for certainly the speeches which have
been made in the House of Commons have not produced
any particular effect upon the policy of the Russian
Court.—(ll,ar, hear.) But I wish to remind the Hon.
Gentleman that the policy of Russia has never been
mentioned in this House without somebody rising to
vindicate what I, for one, generally speaking, regard as
most politic and even magnanimous. I would appeal to
the policy which Russia has pursued during the last
twelve months of agitation; and there are Jew but will
be ready to admit that there has been exhibited on the
part of that power a great amount of forbearance—a
great desire to maintain peace (an object which is of such
importance with Hon. Gentlemen opposite), and I be-
lieve a sincere desire to maintain tranquillity. What-
ever may be the ulterior designs of Russia, and I do
not pretend to share in the powers of divination which
Hon. Gentlemen opposite seem to possess, yet I think it
is a point upon which we may fairly congratulate this
country, that a power of the importance of Russia, under
such circumstances of temptation as those which have
presented themselves during the last twelve months,
should have evinced a disposition which no one can deny
had not only materially tended to, but has been one of
the principal causes of that pence, the maintenance of
which you congratulate yourselves upon.—(Hear.) Con-
trast the conduct of Russia under those circumstances

with that of the French Republic forty or fif y years ago.
Imagine the career which might have been open to a
great power like Russia had she chosen to have seized
such opportunities as have recently occurred; and what
contusion, suffering, and loss to Europe and to civilisa-
tion might have been the result.—( Hear, hear.) Nothing
can, I think, be more unjust than for Hon. Gentlemen to
give an opinion as to the character and conduct of one of
the greatest powers of Europe, not on account of what it
has done, but of what it will do, according to the pro-
phctie powers of Hon. Gentlemen. We must judge of
the conduct of Russia by what has actually occurred.

We see that its conduct In a late transaction was charac

terised by great temperance and great forbearance.
With respect to the immediate instance before the
House, we do not know the cause of the occupation of
those principalities. It may have originated in a false
interpretation of treaties—in a misconception of the di-
plomatic position of Russia with respect to these trans-
actions. It is quite true that the conduct of Russia
under the :circumstances, however we may consider it

Secretary of State for F,Teign Affairs might alit him,
and that in that situation it would he mote easy and
agreeable to him to carry on business if he was on
gond terms with the Czar. The Honourable
Member had pronounced the most unbounded culo
glum on the Emperor of Russia. Ile had said that
he was the most peaceable, the least ambitious, and
the least likely to cause apprehension to other states;
but he thought, notwithstanding this, that the Ho-
nourable Gentleman had betrayed in the course of
his speech, considerable doubts of the accur.cy of
what he had himself stated ; for after he had pro-

fessed that it was matter of congratulation that the Em-
peror of Russia had not interfered with any other
country, he said that he was not gifted with the power
of divination, so as to divine the intentions of

the Emperor of Russia. As we judged of a tree by
its fruits, so we, seeing what Russia bad done, what bad
be, n tier conduct in Poland, the Crimea, and Turkey,
how, by insidious proceedings she had extended
her frontit rs, and enlarged her territory, we naturally con-
cluded that she was going to do that which she had done
befta-o. He believed that all the Turkish empire wanted
was sure moral support from this country. With two such
countries as France and England united, he did not be-
lieve that if they spoke out and declared their opinions
forcibly, they would find any country in the world to go
aga nst them. He was gratified that the Noble Lnrd ap
peered to participate in his views. As to Russia being in-
vited by the authorities of Moldavia, he believed that the
Hospodar had invited the Russians, but that it was
entirely against the will of the mass of the popula-
tion. As to Wallachia, the Russians had entered it
gratuitously, without any invitation whatever, and
after all pretext bad been taken away by the
Turks. The Noble Lord professed to feel great confi-
dence that the Russian troops would withdraw, and
said that it was only a question of time ; but, in this
time, the unfortunate inhabitants of the principality
were forced to pay for the maintenance of these
,inty thousand Russian troops. The Noble
Lord bad been deceived before in this very
instance by the Russians, who told him last year
that they were going out of Moldavia. The
Noble Lord said that, except as regards the subject of
the present motion, their conduct was marked by
dignity and forbearance. This reminded him of
what had recently occurred to a friend of his,
who was also known to many Honourable Members—he
meant the celebra ed writer, Mr. Charles Dickens. He

opposed to our interests, or to the law of nations, is still
such, that it is on an occasion like this that we must
look with confidence to the Minister of the Crown, and
we aro bound to give him our fair confidence in a trans-
action like this, for this is an occasion on which negotia-
tion ought to have a fair opportunity. If the result of
the negotiations should be fruitless—if they should be
hostile to the interests of England, then there will be
the right time and the proper occasion for
the House of Commons to interfere.--(Elear.)
But then these attacks on a great power, not on ac-
count of what it has done, but on account of visionary
results, which only exist in the imagination of
those who speak them, are certainly not the basis on
which public men should act. We expect a Secretary
of State to express opinions upon some other grounds

was walking in the street, when he felt a man put
his hand in his pocket ; he seized him, and hid him
taken before the Marylebone Police-court, where he
himself attended. Mr. Dickens having visited the
prisons, recognised the man as one whom he had
before seen, and said, " Have you not been
in prison before ? " " No, never," was the answer.
The policeman, who was by, and conveyed him to
prison, nudged him, and :said, " What are you talk
ing about ? " Well," said the prisoner, "I never
was—except for two months." The Russians had not
interfered in the affairs of any other country; they had
only taken possession of a territory to which they were
not entitled. In reference to the motion before the
House, considering the recommendations from all quar-
ters, he would not insist on going to a division.

The motion was then withdrawn. •
THE 6TH MADRAS LIGHT CAVALRY.'
Mr. ANSTEY moved for copies of the proceedings in
the Court of Inquiry and the Court-martial held at
Arcot, in the year 1844, in the case of the alleged muti-
neers of the 6th Regiment of Madras Light Cavalry,
and of all memorials and correspondence relative thereto,
or to the punishments or commutations of the punish-
ments of any such mutineers; and also of the Madras
pay regulations, and the Native Mutiny Act. The
Court-martial was held on 17 Sepoys, private
produced,
h
wouldsoldiesrs
show
this regiment, under the following circumstances:—The
Madras pay regulations, when
that the Sepoys were enlisted on the terms of receiving
so much additional batta when they took the field,
the object being to enable them to remove their
wives and families with them. The Marquis of Tweed-
dale, who was Commander-in-Chief at Madras, having
suspended the issue of the field butte, these Sepoys
were unable to take the field, and they refused to
mount. This state of things continued for four days.
The Marquis discovered that he had made an error, and
issued an order acknowledging it, and declaring that
the field batta should be allowed. The men immediately
returned to their duty; and the Marquis, in a general
order, expressed his satisfacton that he had done so,
with his determination not to select them for a post of
honour for a time at least, but to detain them upon ordi-
nary service; and they did duty accordingly for nine
months, mounting guard about his own person, and no
distinction being made between them and the other sol
diers. But at the end of nine months a court of inquiry
into these bygone transactions was held at Arcot, and
the result was a court-martial on a charge of mutiny—a
capital offence by the Native Mutiny Act, and requiring
nine officers, whereas this court consisted of only
:even. Applications for copies of the charges and for
legal assistance were refused. 16 of the 17 wen were
convicted. Two were shot; one was pardoned for having
given " Queen's evidence;" the other 13 were sentenced
to banishment for life. They were brought to Madras
for the purpose of being removed to their place of exile;
an application was made to the Supreme Court for
a habeas corpus, but they were instantly re moved
out of the juri,cliction of the court to their place of
exile. Soon after their arrival there the Government
pardoned all but two, whose sentee ce was commuted to
banishment for seven years, and chat they were now suf-
fering. The present application to .I.',Arliament del not
originate with perseos having any pique against tho
Government or the Company, but with some gentlemen
of the highest respectability in India; and when the
papers should be produced, he (Mr. Ansley) should make
a very serious case against the Nlarquis, and thLu'd pro-
pose a most searching and rigorous examination into the
matter.

than those which such Crude materials would afford him
to deal with, and the promulgation of which are calcu-
leted to lead to results most inconvenient, not only for
thestransaction of public business, but ultimately to the
tranquillity of Europe. This, Sir, is my opinion, and I
have now to express the hope that there wilt be no division
on the motion before us, and it may lead to a false im-
pression. I do not wish the Emperor of Russia to sup-
pose that there is a want of sympathy for populations
that are not treated in accordance with what may be
considered the law of nations, nor with what may be
considered is high policy—that suffering humanity has
net the sympathy of the Huse of Commons under all
circumstances. I hope the Emperor of Russia, too,
will understand, that it is not the opinion of the House
of sCommons, nor the opinion either of the English
people, that he is a despot whose conduct no ono will
vindicate.—(Hear, hear.) I hope the Emperor of
Russia will understand that the speeches made by the
Hon. Member for Montrose, and of others, are not a fair
representation of the feelings of the House of Commons
nor of the English people.—(Hear, hear.) I do not be-
lieve that such speeches do represent the feelings of the
English people. I believe that the feeling of the sensible
part of the community is that they recognise in the ruler
of Russia en individual of great ability and of great
merit—that ho is a man of great intelligence and of
great power, and that he has exercised that power with
a due regard to the position he occupies and a strong
sense of the duties that devolve upon him.—(Hear.)
As to the inclination to impugn the conduct of the Em-
peror of Russia, as if he had committed an act of felony,
because he has not been born with a king, lords, and
commons, and a parliamentary committee, to keep him
in check, it is an absurdity, for which there is no sym-
pathy in this House; but I believe there is no sympathy
even amongst the people who are now walking
outside in the streets. The time has gene by
when such attacks can be made, and they have been left
unimpugned too long. For 30 ycars tt e Hon. Member
for Montrose has been indulging in these remarks—and
I say it with great respect for his talents, ho has been
during all that time indulging in unmitigated nonsense
on the subject.—(Laughter.) He has subjected the Em-
peror to the same sort of criticism, because he has not
been surrounded with the forms of a consti ution. For
this reason the lion. Member has described the Emperor
as a despot, as an ogre, as a sort of being that only ex-
isted for the purpose of inflicting misery upon mankind.
I believe the opinion entertained of the Emperor is, that
throughout his career he has shown the influence of his
individual character, that he is rather in advance of the
people he governs, and that of all sovereigns that during
recent events have occupied thrones in Europe, he is the
most entitled to the respect of mankind.—(Hear.)
Sir H. VERNEY observed that the question before
the House was, whether the Emperor of Russia had done
that of which this country had a right to complain. If
Russia had been peacefully inclined, why had the Em-
peror promoted the denunciation of the treaty of Mal-
moe ? There could be no doubt that if Russia had re-
monstrated with Denmark that peace would have been
the result.
Mr. J. A. SMITH differed from the Hon. Member
for Bucks, and thought the feeling in this country in
general was against the Emperor of Russia.. Perhaps it
was from necessity that the personage had become the
unscrupulous and determined enemy of constitutional
liberty wherevsr it appeared. The House had surely
not forgotten the history of Poland, of Circassia, and of
Cracow.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord could not have
forgotten the opinion which he • had expressed of the
conduct of Russia towards Cracow. He hoped the Noble
Lord would not divide the House, for be must feel satis-
fied with the result of his motion. The moral force of
England, in this as in other questions, would have
its weight, but influenced as it was with our alliance
with France would be irresistible. That alliance they
owed to the conduct and policy of the Noble Lord the
Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and on that alliance
he believed the peace of the world depended.—(Hear,
hear.) In the occupation of Moldavia and Walla-
chia by the Russians, he feared the rights of humanity
had been disregarded. He hoped Turkey would
protest against it, and he trusted, as the Noble Lord
had not t xpressed a different opinion, that the Govern-
ment had also protested against it. He joined with
those lion. Members who had asked the Noble Lord not
to divide on his motion.
Dlr. J. O'CONNELL congratulated the Hon. Member
for Buckinghamshire on the cause he had undertaken.
The remarks of the Hon. Member who spoke last were
excellent. He could have been content to leave the
matter to his vindication. If any subject could excuse
the use of strong terms, it was the conduct of that
monster—the Emperor of Russia. The Hon. Member
for Buckinghamshire had defended the scourge of
women and the destroyer of men. Had the House for-
gotten the case of the unfortunate nuns of Minsk—
dragged from their convents—brutally flogged—ex-
posed to the violence of ruffian soldiers—with the
cognisance—with the express written approbation of
the client of the Honourable Member for Buckingham-
shire? Had the House forgotten the conscription of
Polish children sent to Siberia, dying by the way-side,
and the orders issued to fill up the numbers by
fresh victims—all to satisfy the cruelty of this hide-
ous monster I He was glad such conduct had been
protested against. If sentimentality meant sympathy
for human suffering under the heel of the greatest
despot—the greatest monster of modern times—be
should not be ashamed to avow it. Speaking on behalf
of the Irish people he should support the motion, if
pressed to a division. At the same time, he admitted
there might be reasons why the Noble Lord should not
divide the House.
Lord DUDLEY STUART, in reply, said be gave
full weight to the opinions of those Lion. Members,
whether agreeing in his views or not, who recommended
him to withdraw the motion. He had heard with some
surprise the Hon. Member for Bucks say that on this
question he advocated opposite interests from those es-
poused by him (Lord Dudley Stuart). He (Lord
Dudley Stuart) was endeavouring to defend the in-
terests of the Turkish empire, and he thought
lie recollected that not very long ago the Hon. Member
for Bucks, in a most elcquent speech en the question of
Servia, had expressed as strong an opinion on the im-
portance of maintaining the integrity of the Ottoman
empire as could possibly be imagined. He (Lord I),
Stuart) had, throughout his observations, endeavoured
to express himself iu temperate language, and had
given no utterance to those feelings which he was not
ashamed to confess always rose in his heart when con-
templating the acts of the oppressor of Poland; and he
would not be at duced by the exaggerated language in
which the Hon. Member for Bucks had thought proper
to support his views, or be led to resort
.to intem-
perate expressions by way of retort. The opinions
of the Honourable Gentleman appeared to find no echo
in the House, and he was sure they would find none in
the country; which was much more likely to coincide
with the feelings of the Hon. and Learned Member for
Limerick. He (Lord D. Stuart) confessed he had heard
the observations of that Honourable and Learned
Member with pleasure. Stich generous sentiments did
honour to him who delivered them. as to the
assembly which received them with cheers.—
The Hon. Member for Bucks, however, took another
view, and he had a right to his opinions. His motives, no
doubt, were excellent. Possibly he might think, now
that his contemptuous treatment of the consolidated

Mr. J. O'CONNELL seconded the motion.
Sir J. 1101 11.0UziE had not been tw3re that this
motion was likely to come on this evening. In the many
years that he had been in Parliament he reeollecttd no
case, or not more than one, where the proceedings of a
court-martial had been made the subject of a discussion
—(Hear, wasthat stitrati
in the House, or, at least, of inquiry before a Committee.
without. shocking public feeling. It set med fair to ask
o
why it had. been brought up now? This attack upon
strange,
shouldif havethis swleapst s o along
n ar
Hagenuondi
uds
suet
and
intwed
the Marquis IN gan with the presentation to the House
of Commons of a petition from Mr. Malcolm Lewin,
otsuti osr that.b,rdotif
difference
theyeirroieibinht
ce.oeduw_s oe(u) printed—(Hear,
betweenee
atnotire,
vth,rhedeeac
rtivohr_ea
which the Committee on Petitions found. to be so libel-
i
nenLe
unfortu-
natetev to
never
nh allowahvee
heard of this affair.. The matter originated, he would
not say from no public motives, but from a great deal of
-
private feeling. He had not a word to say against Mr.
Lewin's private character, but, in consequence of that
gentleman's conduct, he was removed from his office of
Provisional Member of Council at Madras, and
obliged to quit India, and, if the Honourable Mem-
orif Aou
would
Mem-
ber should proceed on any future day with this case, it
would be his (Sir J. HobLouset.) painfel duty to present
papers signed by Mr. Lewin himself, which would be a
full justification for the course pursued by the Mar-
quis and the Government. No doubt the men were
not tried at the time; it was thought that according
to forms they should first be marched back from
the Bengal Presidency into their own; a great portion
of the whole regiment, too, was implicated, a general ac-
tion was expected, and if there had been immediate in-
quiry, it would have been necessary to have artillery to
secure the execution of the orders of the Commander-in-
Chief: The mutiny was of a most serious character; it
it included a great number of the native officers; secret
oaths were taken; meetings were held; there was a po-
sitive refusal to march; the men woufa not even parade.
—(Hear, hear.) Surely the lion. Member must ace that
the present was rather an awkward time to make this
complaint of the conduct of a Commander-in-Chief
towards native troops in India, and without the produc-
tion of papers.—(Hear, hear.) The A.arquis of 'I weed-
dale was too much of a gallant soldier to be chargeable
with cruelty, and be was sure he was too much 4 an ho-
nest man to shift from himself the responsibility that
fairly belonged to him. Though 13 men were condemned
to be shot, only two were ordered for execution by the
Marquis of Tweeddale; and these were
.two men who
had administered illegal oaths to the mutineers, and en-
deavoured by a combination to destroy all discipline in
the regiment, and march it to a place where it would be
under the guidance of a Zemindar or some person of that
kind in India.—(Hear.) But this matter did not escape
the attention of the Government of the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Tainworth; and he found,
on making inquiry, that the whole case was submitted to
the Duke of Wellington. The Noble
.Duke wrote a
minute on the subject, w
in
bich he entered into the whole
of the transactions and especially that to which the Hon.
Gentleman had so, strongly referred—viz., the men being
allowed after the mutiny to go on common duty. On
this point the minute showed most distinctly that so far
from such a line of conduct being contrary to the ordi-
nary rules as laid down in the articles of war, there was,
under the circumstances, no other mode of dealing with
the matter; and that the commanding officer was per-
fectlyjustified in allowing the men to do common duty.
—(Hear.) In another account which he had seen, it
was stated that the men never did mount guard; but
whether this was the case or not, was of very
little importance. They were never under fire; and
he had no doubt that if they had it would have been re-
garded by all parties as an extenuating, circumstance.—
(Hear, hear.) He did not see that anything would be
gained by inquiry into this matter, and certainly ho
was not inclined, except for reasons much more strong
than any urged by the Honourable Gentleman, to lay
the papers before the House. It was very seldom that
the proceedings of courts-martial were icquired into by
that House, and he saw no reason for doing so in the
present instance. lie might just state, betore conclud-
ing, that the parties who had been pardoned were so
favoured in cons( (pence of subsequent good conduct. It
was thought better, after justice had been administered
in the case of two individuels, to extend mercy to the
others, so that no undue severity should take place. Fur
the reasons he had stated he could nut consent to the
presentation of the papers.—(Hear.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL believed that gross illegality had
been practised in this case, becau e by the 7th article
of war not less then 13 members should sit oil a court-
martial, unless it was held in the territory of Fort St.
George, whereas only seven had sat in the court which
tried these men.—(Hear.) He thought this a fair case
for inquiry.
Mr. 'FUME thought it was of consequence to knowwho ordered the batta to be discontinued, because it ap-
peared that that was the cause of the dissatisfaction
which led to the mutiny.—(Hear.) The court-martial
was clearly an illegal court, and he did not understand
how in India nine months (-11p;cd, and a sufficient num..
er of officers could not be got to try the
parties.—

(Hear.) He must say that to try men before an illegal
tribunal, and then to execute them, appeared to him to
be a very serieus matter ; and, as the case occurred
under the Government of the 11:ght Hon. Gentleman
(Sir 11. Peel), he should like to hear from him a state-
ment of the facts. As to the petition of Mr. Lewin, he
did not see that it had anything to do with the matter;
for, though he had libelled the whole House, it would
not affect the question before them. lie must say he
thought this a fair subject for inquiry. He wished to
know why, after a period of nine months, the parties
were brought to trial, and that before an illegal tribu-
nal; and why, after this illegal trial, they were ex-
ecuted.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ELLIOT se:el, no doubt the withdrawal of the
batta was a very natural cause of discontent; but the
cause of the mistake which led to it was explained to the
regiment only two days after it had occurred, so that
there was ample time for the removal of all feeling of
discontent on that ground. As to what had been said
with respect to the parties doing common duty after the
mutiny, it should be borne in mind that it was not
known who the persons implicated were till after inquiry.
It was only then that the ringleaders were known, and
they were immediately put under arrest and ordered to
be tried by court martial.
Mr. AGLIONBY thought it was perhaps to bo re-
gretted that a matter which dated back so many years
should have been revived when its revival might do no
good. But the question having been raised, especially
with reference to the legality of the court martial, he
thought some further explanation was due to the House
than that accorded by the flight Hon. Gentleman.
Sir 11. PEEL had not expected that the motion under
discussion would have been brought forward that even-
ing, otherwise he would have made himself master of
the facts, the case having occurred when the Govern-
ment of which he was a member held dike, and he
should then have been able to le spond to the appeal of
the Hon. Member for Montrose. He had no recollec
tion of the facts of the case as enabled him to enter on
the merits, but he would give his vote on grounds sug-
gested by the circumstances in which the case was pre-
sented. In all those cases great confidence must be
placed, and great allowances must be made for the cir-
cumstances under which individuals were placed with
respect to, military questions. From all he had seen,
heard, or known of the Marquis of Tweeddale during a
long and distinguished career under the Duke of Web
lington, he felt as strong a conviction as ho could with
respect to any officer, that the Noble Lord was the last
man in the world who would have been guilty of oppres-
sion, or could have been charged with an excess of mi-
litary discipline. His tendencies were tendencies of
kindness towards the soldier. But what was to be
done when those papers were got? It had been stated
that there was no sudden instantaneous act of severity.
The proceedings might have been the result of impulse,
not of deliberation; but it was stated that there had been
an interval of nine months, that the sentence was carried
into effect against two of the parties only, and they were
ringleaders. All those facts produced a presumption in
his mind, without an exact recollection of the circum-
stances, that there had been no unnecessary severity.—
(Hear, hear.) But, further, it was stated that the Com-
mander-in-Chief (the Duke of Wellington) had per-
sonally examined the facts of the case, and had pro-
nounced a deliberate judgment that the sentence was
perfectly justifiable. Hon. Gentlemen might disregard
the opinion of the Duke of Wellington; but the question
for the House of Commons to consider was really a
question of authority and jurisdiction. If they chose to
supersede the Commander-in Chief in the discharge of
his peculiar furetions, the British army would be much
less satisfied with their decisions.—(llear, bear.) On
the grounds be had stated he could safely deprecate the
constitution of a precedent, now for the first time pro-
posed to be introduced, by the House of Commons un-
dertaking to revise the sentence of an Indian court-
martial.
After a few words of explanation from Mr. AG-
LIONBY,
The ATTORNEY GENERAL begged to remind
the Hon. Member for Youghal of the consequences
which his legal experience ought to satisfy him would
follow on the production of these papers. Was he to
refer them to a Select Committee of unpractised Mem-
bers to determine whether there was an illegal defect in
the court-martial? The precedent would be a most dan-
gerous one and destructive of all subordination in the
army. Might not the Hon. Member for Cockermouth
have given the Government credit for having directed
attention to the legality of the proceedings; and was
the House on a bare motion for papers to commit itself
to referring the question to a Select Committee whether
murder had been committed or not?
Mr. ANSTEY briefly replied. He maintained that
Lord Brudenell's case afforded a precedent for inquiry.
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion •••
Against it

54
-40

Majority •••
SCHOOL OF DESIGN.

On the motion of Mr. M. GIBSON. the following gen-
tlemen were nominated members of the Select Commit-
tee
on the School of Design:—Sir R. Peel, Sir G. Clerk,
Mr. Milnes, Mr. Moffatt, Mr. Lsbouchere, Mr. Rich,'
Mr.Wakley, Mr. M. Gibson, Mr. Hope. Mr. Scholefield,
and Mr. Kershaw.
PROTECTION OF JUSTICES (IRELAND) BILL.
The report on the Protection of Justices (Ireland) Bill
was brought up and agreed to.
On the question that the Bill should be read a third
time to-morrow,
Mr. J. O'CONNELL expressed his objection to the
Bill, and moved as an amendment that it be read a third
time to-morrow L•ix months.

After some remarks in approval of the Bill from Sir
%V. Somerville, 151+jor Metcalf, en l Mr. M. J. O'Con—
n.ii, tho House divided, and the numbers were—
For the amendment 2
Against it
Majority
The original motion was agreed to, and the House ad-
journed at Eleven o'clock.

HOUSE' OF LORDS, March 22.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
Their Lordships assembled at Four o'clock.
The Royal Asstnt was given this day by Commission
to the Overseers (Cities and Boroughs) Bill. The
Royal Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor, the
Marquis of Clanricarde, and Lord Campbell.
Their Lordships then adj9urned during pleasure.
Their Lordships resumed at Five o'clock.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the
Society for the Protection of Trade praying for an ex-
tension of the County Courts.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions
complaining of agricultural distress, and praying for re-
lief from local taxation.
The Earl of ERNE presented a petition from some
unions in the county of Donegal against the rate in aid.
The Earl of MALMESBURY presented a petition
against the Petty Sessions B+ll, and gave notice of an
amendment which ho intended to move in the preamble
of the Bill to-morrow.
The Earl of WICKLOW presented several petitions
against the rate in aid.
OUT-DOOR PAUPERS BILL.
Their Lordships then went into Committee on this
Bill.

The Duke of RICHMOND thought that houses in
which paupers were farmed should be placed under the
regulation of the Poor-law Commissioners in the same
manner as union houses, and he should propose a clause
to the effect; but he objected to the practice of farming
out paupers, and would wish to see it abolished.
The Earl of CARLISLE thought it would be difficult
to abolish the system, and while it existed, certainly it
ought to be under stringent regulations.
Lord BEAUMONT considered this Bill would do
away with the whole of the evils of the system of farm-
ing, paupers.
The clause proposed by the Duke of RICHMOND
was negatived without a division, and the Bill passed
through Committee.
NORTH WALES RAILWAY.
On the motion of Lord AIONTEAG LE, the order for
the attendance of Mr. W. Chadwick and Mr. J. Marriner
was discharged, and they were ordered to attend this
day week.

1.
_. _~ ^~;~

presentations had been made to the Court of Turin, and Earl of Aberdeen) was perfectly ready not to press for
the Noble Marquis had stated that representations had I its production. ~`Some time or other he presumed it
been made which had had the effect of retarding the war, would be thought fitting by her .Mejesty's Government
but he thought he could show from the papers moved by to produce all the documents explanatory of the whole
his Noble Friend that greet remissness had been shown proceeding connected with the war. Considering
what
in doing anything; and that that lit, could not have had taken place, he felt it incumbent on him to move foron
produced any possible effect. The first in- their production now, but, as he said before, he was
timation made to the Sardinian Government was 7illing not to press for their being immediately laid
in March, le4e, expressing the satisfaction of the the., table, if the Noble Marquis should find it laconic-
Government at the assurances of the Court o nirnt to submit them to the House.—(Hear, hear.)
Turin, that they would not interfere either sa The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, who was very iodise
the affairs of France or in those of Italy, and on the 27th tinetly heard, said be had heard with great pleasure the
March the King of Sardinia and the Sardinian army conclusion of the speech of the Noble Earl, because the
crossed the frontier, and the Marquis of Pareto immediate production of the papers would be attended
declared to the British Minister that Sardinia entered with some inconvenience. lie believed the moment was
into the war to diive Martini from Italy, and to assist approaching when their production would be iudispen-
tho Provisional Government of Lombardy, where- sable for the credit of her Majesty's Government and
upon the British Minister was instructed to remind the satisfaction of the country, He thought the Govern-
the Sardinian Government that the war in which they had merit were fully justified in taking a most ample, full,
entered was one of doubtful issue. It was true advice and comprehensive view of all the negotiations which
was given to the King of Sardinia not to go to war with had preceded the armistice at Turin : and though he did
Austria. The advice might have been given had the war not propose to enter into any lengthened detail upon that
been just, but he found no remonstrance against the in. subject, yet he wt uld take the liberty of brie fly advert-
justice of the war, no protest against the violation of ing to it. The Noble Earl had commenced his speech
treaties on the pat t
.of the King of Sardinia. The by alluding not to any recent negotiations, not to any
King of Sardinia was not only an acceding party to the papers which he was now desirous of possessing, but to
treaty of Vienna, but he was under an engagement to certain documents which last year were laid upon
this country, as well as to all Europe, to maintain the the table of the House, and from these he
provisions of that treaty, and therefore its violation by hid inferred that a disposition then existed
him called for a protest in strong language. Therefore, upon the part of her Majesty's Government unfa-
in addition to that violation of the public law, and that vourable to the Austrian empire. Now such an inter-
act of scandalous violation of the peace cf which the ence was not deducible from the documents in question.
King of Sardinia had been guilty without any assignable The Noble Earl would remember that at the time they
cause or pretext, it was a breach of an engagement en were laid upon the table a very reroarkablesta
appearedte of
tore] into specifically with this country; and the least things existed upon the Continent; and yet he
that the British Government could have done would to forget and to suppress the fact, so far as he could, that
have been to have entered a formal protest against it. in the interim between the original communications and
There was a recent example of the same kind. Not those now sought for, there had occurred an extraordi-
long before, Austria, Russia, and Prussia had taken nary event,—namely, the revolution at Paris.—(llear,
measures to deprive Cracow of its independence. That hear.) He need only appeal to the sound judgment of
was an act of comparatively trilling importance as corn- the Noble Earl, and to that matured spirit of states-
pared with the war in Italy; but the Governments of manship which he was at all times able to display, and
France and England thought the three powers alluded ask whether there was one relation subsisting in Europe,
to had violated the treaty of Vienna. That there had or one course of conduct between one country and ano-
been great provocation on the part of that state could not ther,which by such an event as the one he referred to
be denied, and the three powers declared that they had not was not liable to be altered and modified, and which did
violated the treaty, but England and France considered not in fact require an ample review to be made after
that they had, and they lost not a moment in entering a the occurrence took place to avert the consequences
strong official protest against it. Here, then, was an it involved?—(llear, hear.) The Noble Earl had re-
example which ought, for every reason, to have been ferred to a dispatch which had not been laid upon the
followed.—(Hear, hear.) Much had been said as to the table, but which he said he had perused.
treaty of Vienna, and there appeared to be a good deal Lord BROUGHAM said the Noble Marquis was
of uncertainty about the application of that treaty. Ile under a misapprehension. The dispatch bad been laid
would, however, express what his notions were on the upon the table; it was produced on a motion submitted
subject. In the first place, all parties either contracting last year.
or acceding to that treaty were bound by precisely the The Earl of ABERDEEN observed that the Noble
dame obligation. He thought there was a moral gun- Marquis had laid a dispatch upon the table in the first
rantee given by every Power, whether signing or acted- instance, which ended with a threat against Austria for
ing, to preserve and cause to be preserved the terms of a supposed interference on her part with Sardinia. That
that treaty. He considered that any violation of that threat might have been deserved. Six months afterwards,
treaty, strictly speaking, might be a cause of war, but however, Austria sent an answer, in which she not only
of course it would depend on the view the party injured denied that she entertained any such intentions, but
might take of his own interests. But that some notice stated her readiness to act on the aide of Great Britain
ought to be taken of an infraction of the treaty there in abstaining from interference. He (the Earl of Aber-
could he no doubt—whether it should be by recalling deen) contended that it was a suppressio yeti not to pro-
the Minister of the offended Power, or by what other duce that communication when the other dispatch was
means, must depend on the feeling entertained.— laid on the table.
(Hear.) Ile fully admitted ' that neither England The Marquis pfa LANSDOWNE was under the
nor any other state was bound to make corn- impression that Thee communication had been
mon cause with any other party who might be immediately produced; , but, at all events, when the
injured. There were special guarantees which were on original dispatch was laid upon the table a very
a different footing—there were special guarantees con general apprehension prevailed that Austria was pre-
tained in that very treaty, the conditions of which, if pared to interfere in the affairs of Sardinia, and it
violated, must be redressed by war. Fortunatele, this was an object with her Majesty's Government to remove
country had always felt great reluctance to enter into that apprehension. In that attempt they succeeded. A.
special guarantees. They had avoided all guarantees of communication was sent to the Austrian Government
that description, and he hoped they would continue to which stated fully and explicitly what the views of this
du so.—(Hear, hear.) To proceed with a narrative of the country were as to the formation of independent states,
war:—The remonstrances being of such a nature, had and, at this distance of time, looking back to that dis-
produced no effect, and the war thus iniquitously begun patch, he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) saw nothing in
continued at first with success to the Sardinian arms. In its style or composition to cause the slightest regret.—
the distracted state of Austria—with a revolution in her (Hear, hear.) But as he had stated before, the late re-
capital, without resources, without instructions, without volution in France must not be forgotten in considering
order, the Austrian army was, for a time, completely the details of the present question. That revolution dis-
paralysed. In this emergency, the government at played itself in colours which impressed the world with
Vienna, still relying on the alliance which had so long alarm, and imposed new duties on France and a new
existed between that country and this, sent a mes mode of executing those duties. It also imposed a duty
senger to England in order to induce us to mediate, upon her Majesty's Government, to maintain a good un-
and restore peace. He did not know accurately how derstanding between this country and France. But the
that mission had been received, but he had seen re- Noble Earl's reason for not coming to an understanding
ferences nsado tceAustrian dispatches, which he presumed with France, or, at least, for not joining with her, was
were authentic. The proposals, however, made by the somewhat singular. He said—" I admit that France
Austrian Government were not sufficient to satisfy the and you had at the moment, a similar in-
exigencies of her Majesty's Government. Still further terest in preserving peace, and that you had a right to
concessions were required; and although Austria offered believe that the French Government were kindly- dis-
to surrender the whole of Lombardy, and recognise her posed; but the motives of the two countries were different,
independence, that was not thought sufficient to satisfy for, had there been a war in Italy, France would be
our friend, if he must call him so, the King of Sardinia. obliged to take a different course from you." Bat as
[happily for Austria, the conditions were refused, because France was ready to act with England up to the point of
shortly after the Austrian army having been reinforced press ruing peace, and to forego any designs she might
in Italy, and a better spirit prevailing in the Austrian base in the event of war, why should the 'Noble Earl
councils, the offensive was resumed, and the Austrian think it injueicious to invite France to join in a media-
general, Radetzlry, drove his enemies before him until tion?—(Elear, hear.) The Noble Earl had a right to
the Austrians had crossed their own territory, showing comment on what he had read, but ho was not justified
as much energy and vigour as when ho (the Earl of in commenting upon official and authentic communica-
Aberdeen) had before seen him himself at the head of Lions which ho had not seen, because they had not
his Jictorious hussars.--(hear, hear.) On arriving at hitherto been laid upon the table; and yet, in adverting
the Bietimontesc territory, he with rare p. udence and to the conditions involved in the negotiations; ho
generosity abstained frees following his beaten enemy seemed to think that the terms which were pro•
into his own territory.—(hear, hear.) lie granted posed by England to Austria as the founciiiion of
..n armistice to the King of Sardinia, with a the mediation, were not such as to satisfy the exigencies
view to the settlement of the terms of peace; which, of this country. But where did the Noble Earl find
indeed, would have been an easy matter, and have that we had any exigencies, or where would any
ro qiiired but little time to accomplish if England and testimony bearing on that point be derived from the
France had not in a few days offs rel their mediation. pip rs hereafter to be produced ?—(hear, hear.)
This was eagerly necepted by the King of Sardinia, and, Throughout the whole of the tranetions England had
after some hesitation, by Austri a. This mediation, how- acted with perfect fairness, and what was invidiously
over, offered no prospect of any satisfactory result. But celltd an exigency consisted merely of the conditions
when two powers agreed to offer mediation it was very sawn which the mediation was likely to be best effected.
essential that their interests should 0., identieal.—(liear, Would the NOble Earl, who had had much to do with
hear.) It we, quite clear that England and France both meciiltionn bet Ore, and might have 'nue!' to do with them
sii:cercly desired the restoration of peace; but it was vain ould he enter into a negotiation upon any ()Ater
not at all clear that their interests in the north of Italy ground than that which was most likely to bring
were identical. Oa the contrary, the interest of England tooth parties to a proper understanding? lkesuse, it a
had always been to see the north of Italy forming as mediation were undertaken, and initeer party would
strong a birder as possible; and this was effected by the ;give way, there would ha an end to all expectation of
treaty of Vienna, bringing the great military power of compromise. Ama diation was founded on a belie f that
Austria into contact with the keeper of the passes of the two parties, from circumstances, had got into a state
Alps, and thus a formidable barrier was opposed to any in which they could not melee peace for themselves,
foreign aggressor. Now, it had always been the interest but in a hich they were desirous for pa ace, and celled.
of France to weaken that barrier, and that could never in a third party to state the extent of mutual
have been done so effectually as by weakening the power concessions. If there was any case in which the princi-
of Austria in Italy.—(llear.) lie thought, therefore. pie of mediation was applicable more than in any other,
that there was no prospect of a satisfactory issue, even it was in that of Austria. There had been a sanguinary
if it had been undertaken on the most practical grounds. alienation then existing, and at the moment when the
But when one considered what was the subject, and what honour of that country was supposed to be more or less
they were to confer about, it was difficult to understune compromised in the result of the contest, it was con-
how any conclusion could have been arrived at. As sidered possible that the intervention of two such powers
Austria from the first declared that she was not dis- as France and England would be successful in extricee-
posed to cede a single inch of that territory which she ing the parties from the difficulties in which they were
had obtained by such sacrifices, he did not see what involved with honour to themselves. He was happy to
there was to stipulate. It reminded him of the inter• s'ate that the official documents when produced would
ference in the case of Switzerland, where, with more dispose of many of the una'hentic dispatches which, like
ingenuity than good faith, we contrived to put the war base coin, had been circulated throughout Europe filling
at an end before the mediation commenerd. And so the columns of the newspapers, and causing much mis-
here as to Austria it might well have been said that the apprehension to exist with reference to the parties who
war was at an end. Austria did not wish to follow the lied, in reality, proposed the abandonment of Lom-
King of Sardinia, and he might think himself fortunate bardy.—([fear, hear.) If howilities should recommence,
to be allowed to retain his own territory. This war being certainly it would not be for want of the best exertion of
at an end, he had no doubt her Majesty's Government Franco and England to prevent them. Every means
had made more strenuous efforts to prevent its renewal had been used by the Governments of the two
than they made when it first broke out; but it appeared powers to induce the King of Sardinia to recon-
that such efforts had been inn ffectual. Now, what was cider his determination. At the same time he was not
it that her Majesty's Government proposed to do ? quite prepared to employ such very strong language as
Such was their position that it was impossible any one the Noble Earl had though it right to use, in reference
could believe their sincerity in objecting to the war, to the course taken by that Power; for he could not but
which had been undertaken by the King of Sardinia. believe that there were circumstances to afford the King
Seeing the violation of the general treaty of of Sardinia, he would not say a justification, he would
Vienna, which was equally binding at this 'me- hardly my an excuse, but something like palliation, by
ment seeing, especially, the engagement which events which had occurred in the disordered state of the
the King of Sardinia had made with this country—in country, and the demands of his subjects. It was easy
addition to which, seeing his contempt for the mediating for Noble Lords, or for persons sitting in Downing-
powers—and which mediation was his very salvation.— street now to sit down, and, looking over the events of
(llear, hear.) Seeing all this, no one would believe the the past years, apply to them the strict rule of diplomatic
sincerity of her Majesty's Government unless they re- intercourse and international action; but in defence, not
called her Majesty's Minister from Turin.—(llear, of the Government of Sardinia only, but of all Govern-
hear.) He held in his hand a manifesto from the Sar- merits, he submitted, that when the events arose by
dinien Government, which for its inconsistency and which continental Europe had during the last year been
audacity was unparalleled.—(Hear, hear.) It was fall convulsed—when those Governments saw the clouds
of fine words of honour and good faith ; and he should lowering and the storm breaking—threatening some with
have thought such word's would almost have paralysed the immediate, others with remote, subversion and destruction,
hand which indicted them.—(Hear, hear.) It rejected to the course taken at such a time and under such dr-
at once all treaties, ancient and modern, considering cumstanees those rules in all their severity and all their
them all us good for nothing, and quite forgetting that strictness were not altogether applicable; he knew not
it was only by treaties that the King of Sardinia held one of the Governments which had been affected by
possession of Genoa—(dear, hear)— that it was only by those events whose acts would bear that strict test—not
the treaty of Vienna that he was not now in his island of even that of Austria, one of the oldest and strongest in
Sardinia.—(Hear, hear.) This mode of treating all Europe. He did not think that that Government, acted
engagements showed the desperation, madness, and upon as it was by the events of last year, could show a
utter want of good faith of the King of Sardinia.— course of perfect consistency, either in reference to the
(Hear.) He accused Austria of a violation of the armis- transactions of Europe generally, or even of Germany.,
tice, when it wets notorious that, from the first, the vie- He knew that every empire, especially ono CO situated,
Litton had been on the part of Sardinia. For instance, was bound to bow to the feelings of the great
. couldmas f
the continuance of the fleet in the Adriatic contrary to the people; but if, by the force of events it
and
h uld
the express stipulations.—(llear, hear.) But he had no control, it was driven out of its habitual,.eproper,,
doubt they should soon see a satisfactory reply to this strictly honourable course, surely some inumeenees o
h regard to a powerful
extraordinary document by Austria. There was just be extended to it;
one passage which he would read. It said—" And has, and strong Governeaaenndt if so
with
of Austria, how much
ing weighed all the chances, examined the remote and more should such indulgenceen,if, bo extended to a smaller
when driven by currents it
immediate causes of the last events, it has come to the and weaker Government,
tor stem, it pursued a course which, on
conviction that it is not less necessary for Upper Italy found impossiblees, could not he justified?—(Hear, hear.)
than for the whole of the Peninsula, to be delivered from mean to justify the, conduct of the
the present state, in which otherwise the most important !,.sit.rerideditniaPieri‘nn"°.tGP Government, but the Government of Aus-
conditions of political and social existence would be assented, as it clearly did, to the pro-
Sardiniant'ria, having
placed in jeopardy. After all these considerations, the
posed mediation, had given the strongest proof of that
Government saw that there was but oneit
asseat by negotiating month after month as to the par-
decidedcourse open to it; it had no choice but war, and l
ticular place in which the mediation should take place;
accordingly." Now, this was, to use a heornaleeses.
having nevertheless, after appointing a person to but expressive expressive English saying, neither more
ina Hear, duct it on her part, and after her assent had been con-
, than " Needs must when the d-1 drives.
tinued six months, suddenly refused the necessary
hear," and great laughter.) That unffharLits.fheeni.isg,uns powers to give effect to the mediation, it had given, if
was impelled by a force greater
thanhandn's of others, not a sufficient excuse, at least a palliation for the con-
whoe tool and an instrument in
ifhehe were to succeed duct of Sardinia in entering into that which might be a
were hostile to him; and
in driving the Austrian army out of Italy to-morrow, long and must be an unfortunate wan—Meer, hear.)
his difficulties would be only then begun.—(Hear, hear.) The Governments of England and France would, what-
ell the InftnltelSetOlOvnetari.llGd, their Lord- soever the result, have the satisfaction to reflect that
Netwithstanaing of the Italian they had done all in their power to prevent the resumpe
:hips had heard nothing of 1
subjects. The !louse used to hear a good deal of the Lion of hostilities and to avert the evils of war. This
leaden and iron sceptre of Austria, and such like figures; was a gratifying circumstance, and in conclusion he
but he behaved that the Austrian provinces had
long would observe that it was of the greatest imp ortanee to
been the best administered of any part of Italy. Con. Europe and to the world, and the best security for the
ofpeace, should war r
hall not, but property was secure, justice restoration un.urtunately have
'on they stistsuatidministered between man and man with as much broken out, and for the future preservation of peace,
purityw and impartiality as in any country in Europe. that two countries like France and England
They had now, or would shortly have, a constitution as should bo found uniting together in the en-
frreas heart could desire. He only:hoped and trusted they fleavour to maintain universal peace.—(Hear, hear.)
inight be zs happy amid us prosperous with a constitution He looked forward with confidence to the time
as they had beats without one; but, hoe ever, that con when, by the jo hat exertions of the Governments of
stitution they would have, and he could not help taking those two countries—by
their uniting in the same policy,that oeportunity of expressing the joy he felt that the and making peace their role object—the general peace of
Austrian empire possessed statesmen having the Europe would be restored and preserved.— (Hear, hear.)
boldness and the ability to frame such a Constitution at He had only further to assure the Noble Earl and the
the present time. He rejoiced to say that this noble House that the papers connected with the negotiations
work—for noble it was—would probably be promulgated should, at the proper time, be laid before the House.
through Italy as well as other parts of Europe; and he Lord BROUGHAM heartily agreed in two of the
hoped, for the sake of the Continent, and especially for propositions laid down by the Noble Marquis—the one
that of England, that Austria might, under the Consti- the importance to the peace of Europe, and the best in.
tion, enter upon a long career of happiness and glory,— terests of this country, of preserving a good understand-
(Cheers.) If the Noble Marquis should tell him that the ing with France (and he gave credit to his Noble Friends
correspondence to which he alluded could not be pro- apposite for their successful junction with France, even
duced at the present moment with coirienieneo, he (tho in tho.deubtfulluatta of the. 51trtliujiill Mediatioe)—the