The Sun.
London, England, 1836-09-26 00:00:00

TO DANIEL O'CONNELL, ESQ.

M.P.

(From the Leeds Mercury.)
Sir,—ln a letter addressed by you to a gentleman in the
north of England, containing congratulations on the result of
the East Cumberland election, I see that yo condemn my
conduct, in your usual style, for venturing to maintain that the
House of Lords cannot be remodelled, and rendered elective
without a revolution, and you add, that without a reform of the
House of Lords, a revolution is inevitable. The object of this
letter, Sir, is to support my own opinion, and to controvert
yours.
Let us take the question at issue between us by an examina-
tion of its working on Parliament. You know, as well as I can
inform you, that a bill brought into the House of Commons, for
depriving the Members of the House of Lords of their hereditary
privilege as legislators, would scarcely be supported by as many
Members in that House, as voted for your celebrated motion for
the Repeal of the Legislative Union between Great Britain
and Ireland. You were so well aware of this, that though
you gave notice of a motion for Reform of the House of Lords
early in the last Session of Parliament, you very discreetly let
the whole Session pass without venturing to bring the subject
formally under consideration. But we will suppose a thing
which is next to impossible—namely, that the Bill might pass
the House of Commons. What then is to be done ? It has
to pass the Lords—and who is to introduce it ? Ido not know
of a single individual in that House who would move or se-
cond a Bill to change its character from an hereditary to an
elective assembly. Can you mention any Lords who would
move and second the Bill ? But suppose such a motion to
be made, the Hon. and Learned Mem-ber for Kilkenny must
be a great deal more blind than he thinks the Hon. Member
for Leeds to be, if he supposes that there would then be the
most remote chance for such a Bill passing into a law, with
the sanction of a majority of the Members of that body. You
know that there is just as much reason to hope that the House
of Lords will pass a Bill for the confiscation of all the estates
of the Peerage of England, as that they will enact a law to
render their hereditary legislative power elective. If you do
not know this, you are the only man in Parliament that is igno-
rant of the fact.
Then, as to the King, of course I speak from no authority
on this point, but I believe that his Majesty William IV.
would as soon abdicate his throne in favour of the Honourable
and Learned Member for Kilkenny, as he would give the
royal assent to such a Bill for disfranchising the Peers of Par-
liament of their hereditary honours.
If this be a correct view of the reception that a Bill for the
reform of the House of Lords would meet with from the three
estates of the realm, it is impossible to effect that reform by
sanction of law, and if therefore it is to be carried at all it
must be effected without law, that is, by Revolution. In Re-
volution it must begin, and in Revolution it must end.
I now turn, Sir, to the other branch of the subject embraced
in your short and pithy sentence. You say that without a
reform in the House of Lords we must have a revolution. I

deny it. Here again the Hon. and Learned Member for Kil-
kenny, and the Hon. Member for Leeds are at issue. Justice
for Ireland, and the firm establishment of free institutions in
England may, I believe, be effected by means perfectly safe,
and perfectly constitutional.
If you w ll allow me, I will call those means by the name of
my plan in contra-distinction to you. My plan, then, is this:
—Let the constituencies in England, Ireland, and Scotland,
at the next general election return to the House of Commons,
which they are perfectly competent to do, 400 Reform Mem-
bers out of the 658, and the Irish Church Bill with its appro-
priation clause—the Irish Municipal Corporation Bill—the
English Registration Bill—the Municipal Trustees Charities
Bill—the Bill for the Abolition of Church Rates, and all
the other Bills that are necessary for good government,
whether national or local, in England, Ireland, and Scotland,
will pass in due time, without any Revolution in the Go-
vernment.

The Tory Lords might, and probably would resist some
of those measures. They would attempt to force upon the
King and upon the nation a Tory Administration. It may be
that by court intrigues the Duke of Wellington and Sir
Robert Peel might again assumd the reins of Government,
but how long could they hold them ? Perhaps, by great good
luck, till the time that they had occasion to ask for the sup-
plies. What, then, would such a House of Commons as that
I have described say to his Grace and to Sir Robert ? Why,
simply this, "We have the purse-strings in cur bands. We
have not confidence in your Administration; we are ready to
vote supplies to Ministers of State in whose principles we can
confide, and whose measures are in unison with the liberal
spirit of the nation we represent, but we will confide them
to none others."

You are aware, Sir, that the inevitable consequences of
such language and conduct, hacked by a majority of 150 Mem-
bers in the Commons. would be a change from a Tory to a
Liberal Ministry ; and though Baron Lyndhurst and some of
the Tory Lords might flounder, and object to liberal measures
when presented to them, yet the more discreet of their num-
ber, in compliance with the public wishes so unequivocally ex-
pressed in Parliament and out of Parliament, would be brought
to compliance, and any thing like systematic resistance to an
Administration thus supported by the constituency of the Re-
formed House of Parliament would he at an end.

This, Sir, is not mere assertion ; it is proved by the test of
experience, and the evidence of facts. During the struggle
for a reform in the Commons House of Parliament, and in the
Parliament which succeeded the consummation of that memo-
rable event, the constituencies adopted this plan, and by their
firm, roiled, and judicious conduct, they overcame much greater
difficulties than any that now exist in the way of beneficial
legislation. They have only to repeat the same conduct, and
vve shall secure justice for Ireland, and a liberal Government
for the United Kingdom, without either en Elective House of
Lords or a Revolution.

I have no wish to quarrel with you, Sir, about points of dif-
ference existing between us. Generally, we vote together in
the House of Commons. In the last Session, I saw much in
your conduct to admire, and in nothing more than in your
abandonment of your proposed motion for reforming the House
of Lords. Generally you acted steadily with the Whig Mi-
nistry, and opposed with your powerful influence all attempts
at division ; and though I cannot at all times compliment you
upon your judgment and discretion, I shall always entertain
high admiration for your talents, and for your devotion to the
cause of your country. It would be a source of deep regret
if those talents should be rendered worse than useless by the
pursuit of a pernicious phantom, and if the great influence
which you possess should be directed to an unattainable ob-

ject, whilst you and your adherents may be so much more
beneficially employed in procuring such a House of Com-
mons as will give to the people of Great Britain and Ireland,
from future elections, all that is wanted for the establish-
ment of equal rights and the enjoyment of constitutional liberty.
I am, Sir, your most obedient Servant,
EDWARD BAINES.

Leeds, Sept. 22, 1836.

IRELAND.

DUBLIN, SEPTEMBER 24.
NATIONAL. ASSOCIATION.—This body met yesterday, Mr.
Cahill in the chair. After some preliminary business, various
communications were read, amongst which was one from Mr.
O'Connell, enclosing the letter of T. Wentworth Beaumont,
Esq., M. P., containing a subscription of 1001. A letter from
the Marquis of Conyngham seas also read, acknowledging the
receipt of a letter from M. Cahill, Esq., Chairman of the As-
sociation, requesting his Lordship to give facility to the regis.
tering of his tenantry in the Queen's county. In reply,
his Lordship stated that he had no property in the county ;
but that he had taken all necessary steps in his power to faci-
litate the registry of his tenantry in the county of Donegal.
Mr. Richmond stated that letters had been received from Ge-
neral Sir G. Cockburn and Mr. James Grattan, announcing
that the registry on their estates had been promptly attended
to. The case was similar as respected the tenantry of Mr.
George Evans in the same county. A communication from
Mr. Fitzsimon brought the gratifying intelligence that the re-
gistry in the King's county was almost complete. Mr. Rich-
mond then handed in the sum of 571. collected in the parish of
Rathminas.—( Cheers. ) In the course of the proceedings,
which were full of interest, as indicating the general enthu-
siasm which influenced the population throughout the country,
in contributing to the fund for the liberation of the people, Mr.
O'Meara stated a circumstance highly to the honour of Lord
Rossmore, which occurred about forty years ago. Having
then interested himself in the cause of the Catholics, his late
aunt, the Dowager Lady Rossmore sent for him, and told him
that the course he was pursuing was displeasing to her, and
that if he persevered in it, she would strike him out of her will
and disinherit him of every shilling of her splendid fortune. He
replied, he was willing to do everything which duty towards
tor.
m carried Beaumont
E s
amidstQa.nd highly-minded
her dictated, but that where the interests of his country were
involved, he could not for the sake of wealth abandon them.
the consequence was that he lost eighty thousand pounds.
A vote of thanks
sym-
pathy being moved, was
The amount of the justice rento n Thursdayf c; for the
la weekslast
county was
e
cheering.
his
stated to be 303/. 19s.
DINNER TO H. V. STUART,nticnddredenthusiastic
public dinner to our truly
by alarge
lieutenant, took place in the Town-hall. It w'
assembly of rank and respectability—upwards (lone hundred and
eighty having sat down. Indeed, with the exception of the
display which took place on the visit of his Excellency,
considerable
m
and te
Waterford never presented a scene to be compared with what
was witnessed on Thursday. The extremelyo wet
idra
pestuous state of the weather, kept away a c
num-
ber from the adjoining counties, who had signified their
Thomasinten-
tion
of being present. Letters were received from Sir
Esmonde, and several other gentlemen, expressive of their re-
gret that unavoidable circumstances put it out of their power
to mark by their presence the high estimation in which they
held the virtues and talents of Mr. Stuart. After the
routine toasts of the " King," " Queen," &c., the Chair-
man, in au excellent speech, recapitulated the eminent
services conferred by Mr. Stuart on his country, con-
cluded by proposing his health. It would be quite im-
possible to convey the slightest idea of the rapturous en-
thusiasm with which this toast was received. The company
rose, to a man, and by loud and lengthened cheers, the waving
of handkerchiefs, and every other possible demonstration,
proved how thoroughly Mr. Stuart possesses their confidence
and affection. The rising of the Hon. Gentleman to return
thanks, was a signal for calling forth additional bursts of
heart-stirring plaudits. When at length Mr. Stuart was
allowed to proceed, he electrified his auditors with one of those
ennoblinc, elo uence 1'
pure and , w itch once heard,
effusions of
can never be forgotten. In a manner the most touching, he
alluded to the part taken by himself in 1826, and with that
single-mindedness, always the accompaniment of transcendent
;nerit, pronounced himself undeserving of the honours
Akoeered upon him. But it was when he came to
speak of
thelnsulting tyranny which the House of P has inflicted
-upon Ireland in the last Session of Parliament—here it was that
the Hoz. Qentleman found scope for the statesman-like powers