The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-08 00:00:00

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The Bill levelled all distinetione between property and
no property—between ignorance and knowledge, which
was one of its greatest defects; and be would chew
it to .be one which their Lordships, in the proper
discharge of their duty, never could consent to.
His Noble and Learned Friend had also expressed his ap-
prehension of the danger of erecting a collision between
the King and the Parliament.
Here there was some explanation across the table be-
tween Lord PLUNKETT and Lerd Wvieronn, which we
• did not hear ; afterwards, on the motion of the Duke of
CUMBERLAND' Lord WYNFORD was permitted to addrss,
he House sitting.
The NOBLE LORD in resuming his speech, thanked the
House for the indulgence shown to him. His Noble and
Learned Friend had asked if the House could see
that there was any other way that would be pro.
ductive of safety to the country ?---(Hear, hear.) He
would reply that he would appeal to the good sense of
the people.—(]Tear.) He had seen the people at various
times in a state of agitation produced by the misconduct of
wicked and designing persons—but when they were
taken nut of the hands of such persons, their own good sense,;;'
would direct them to the proper course. His Noble and t
Learned Friend had also touched on the subject of new le,
Peers. He was sorry he had done so, but as he had touched'
upon that subject, it was his duty also to advert to it. I',
It might he said that he (Lord Wynford) was a new Peer, ' -
but he was not made one on the spur of the occasion. He
hoped lie never would be accused of -disputing the prero -.
gative of the Crown toreward merit. - But that principle sz,'
widely differed from that of creating Peers for the purpose
of carrying a certain measure in that House—(Cheers)
—and the persons who advised the King to make
Peers for such a purpose had committed a gross viol ition -_,
of the Constitution. His Majesty, in his opening 7-e' -
speech to Parliament, had appealed to the collective `ss-
wisdom of his Peers, of course his existing Peers, and
it could note then have been expected that his Majesty :f
was appealing to any future Peers. To create Peers 1,
was a just prerogative of the Crown, but it was the es
duty of his Majesty's advisers to take care that the
sign mantlel was not improperly applied. He had k
a greet 'rogard for the characters of the individuals who had .
been lately called to this House, hut he entertained a strong ,'
belief that they' bed not reeohed the House for the purpose let
for which the Peerage eves. contemplated. His Noble ;
Friend bad edge spoken of the practice of buying and selling ~*
teats for boroughs; he (Lord W.) declared himself a de- t
cided enemy to such a practice, and he now promised that a
if his Nonlc and Learned Friend would bring in a 13111 g"
to preeett such a practice, it should have his moat
eordial support. He believed the practice did not '4'
prevail to such an extent as had been statel Sea,
by the Noble Lords opposite, but he would concur in my tar
ineestrre, however strong, that vvou'd wholly abolish it.
,i...
He need not allude to the number of illustrious persons ^
1 who had found their way into the other House of Parlia.
I went through these boroughs. He was anxious not to ..
leave one observation of the Noble and Learned Lord un-
answered. He believed he had now got through the whole''
of the Noble Lord's positions. He exhorted their Lordships
to take care how they produced any change in tee consti_ I
tution of the country, which by the Noble Lord's own ad-
mission
wall so well appointed. They had an army and ' 7
a navy well appointed, as was proved by the victories '`', .
so gallantly won by the Noble Duke at tie Ode.
As for the navy, it was, of course, needless for him '"
to say any thing; its actions shown gloriously in the 1
page of history, and all this was in spite of a bad repre. !:,a1
sensation, as the Noble and Learned Laid called it The
Noble and Learned Lord said, for all these advantages sti
the people were dissatisfied, and wanted Reform. e_
But Noble Lords would bear in mind, that however well -Is
the country is governed, still sonic people would be ready e.
to inflame the people's minds on sohae point or another. se
He was afraid that the Nulde and Learned Lord
opposite hid raised a storm which, in its progress. 4itti
would sweep himself away with the noblest inhabitants of '.
the country. If Noble Lords wield,' look at the seditious part el
of the Press, they would know what he alluded to.
Those radical Papers said, let us once get this Bill, and we •,,,,
shall soon get more. He was borne out, in a
what he said, by what he saw in a Paper only 3::
the previous evening. It was an address to the ee,
inhabitants of Leeds from an intended candidate under this ~ r:
Bill. He promised that if Leeds would only rctura him '"':
to Parliament, they would soon get rid of the a's
tithes, and, very soon after, the National Debt would
follow. As a Noble Friend of his said on a nee- ''.
vious evening, the honest Reformers were only going !
to Hounslow, but the Radicals were going to Wiro'sor'
and would not atop till the Church and every other "1
institution were swept away, The present Bill
itself (though he was entirely again,t it), slid not
~,..
give him so much concern, as what would follow it. .-
passing into a law. There was one observation of ee.',
the Noble and Learned Lord's to which he had yet f:ie
to reply. He stated that he doubted the right of this House '
to interfere. He (Lord W.) was astonished to hear such an ,a•
observation. Did not the Commons interfere with Bills ea
that originated in that House ? Had they rejected them? One
..„..,"'
instance in point he would give : —Many years since a '
Bill was passed by that House to limit the number of Peers.
~,It
The Commons said—we, as one branch of the Leeisla- -
tun), will not consent to this measure.—(Cheering from ie
the Opposition.) He would now come to some observations a-:
made by the Noble Earl (Grey) opposite. In his speech $1
he said this Bill was to renew the ancient Constitution, ae
lie (Lord Wynford) denied that it would do so. The i'Ziff
1 House of Commons as at present constituted was peen- 4
liarly well adapted to the representation of the people, and ii..-.
the Noble Earl °ppm* when he talked of the present asa
measure being one of restoration, was limier a :-..:
very great mistake. It was, in fact, forming a
,tses.
completely new Constitution. It gut rid of the three best
..-1
sources of constituency, and brought in one of the very - a
worst. The present measure would get rid of burgoge 44..
tenure and freeholds, and it would place freemen
a yezy considerable deal higher in the scale of con- i.
stituency. A freeman might be declared a bankrupt, o
but he would still be entitled to vote at elections. The le
sasno with respect to householders of 101. ; if he had only
a stool and a bed of straw, he had sufficient implements '
to constitute in him a right to vote at elections. If a man 4,
could only pay his rent and taxes, if he had not even a -'
shilling left after it, he would be entitled to this great pri- '''',e
vilege according to the present measure; but a freeholder ee,
was a man of property, and he would ask their Lordships P.
whether it was consistent to place him on the same ,
level with the persons whom he had been just de-
serileing, Lie (Lord Wynford) had set out by stating ..„
himself to be a Reformer; but he could 'never go to the .'
extent of the present measure, believing that it would be 7.
the means of letting in a flood that would overwhelm the '
Constitution. The present measure gave the elective fran-
ehise to men who might be the greatest vagabonds t
upon earth. A Noble Viscount had told the L
House that the principle of the Bill was not .
population. He (Lord W.) agreed with him in that, but
he must at the same time be allowed to tell him there was le
enough in the Bill to form as pretty a principle of
universal suffrage as could be conceived, and he had .
not the least hesitation in saying, if the present measure [l_
was allowed to pass, it would be impossible to prevent unie 'ea
meal suffrage and vote by ballot. A great majority of es
the persons who would acquire right under it were ,
absolute paupers, and in the parish of St. Giles there .e
were persons inhabiting houses at 401. a year, who ;sf
wee° aetully receiving parish relief, and yet by the present 1-4. ,
Bill they woeld be entitled to vote. How could it, therefore, t.
he contended the present measure was based upon popula- r „
tion and property. Property was complste4 kept out of view
by it, and the talents that would he brought into Pasha- x.,
instil under it would be the talents of demagogues— .
(clear)--the talent of mischief, and that talent which would
pull down, and crumble to dust, all the institutions 4
of the country. He had no hesitation in declaring v.*
that the present measure was different, and much
more extensive than the one contemplated by the
,',.,
Noble Lord on the Woolsack. The people, however, ,
who expected greatly from this measure would be !-
most deplorably deceived. They expected that they ',
should have the right trf voting immediately.
No such thing, and did their Lordships suppose, when the :,.
people discovered this, they would be satisfied with such e '
measure? No ; they would rise, and, one and all, witch ae ~
indignant voice would declare that they had been deceived
,•
..,
by his Majesty's Government and the present Bill. Those'
who Were now loudest in applauding the measure would be
the first to cry out against it, it was in fact—" K .
eeping
the word of promise to the ear, but breaking it to the
hope." The present Bill, if it was passed into a'
law, would destroy the landed interest which their '
Lordships were placed in that House by the spirit of
the Constitution to protect. It would destroy the interest
of the church, and he (Lord Wynford) trusted that those
this important subject before they gave their decision on
worthy members of it in that House would weigh well
it, for they might take it from him that all .its temporal,r.
possessions would be utterly destroyed by the pre sent " II
that
The Noble and Learned Lord went oninto
the y,
fran-
he would consent to any
alteerkaitiboen guaranteed that .
ehise to extend it, provided
proposed to do, the elector '
extending the fran-
chise, •
was placed in a situation
was not benefitted. n
it threatened the liberties of the country,
it
wouldh o however, ehro,
which, while
destroyed his moral .
• the elective franchise into the hands of
It was putting
naesattlyhe Rill
e exercised'it could