The Sun.
London, England, 1809-05-09 00:00:00

,;c from the War Office—from the Paymaster-
OtfiCe—froni the Treniury Pee Fund----
l'iutt) the OrAnance, gte. altogether amounted
.to tic
h:Si than 56,7 year,- Now, as the pensions
arni;unted .to above 42,0001: per year, these. sunia
tusking 99,0001. per year, exceeded by 40001. that
which could possibly be granted under the -provi•
lions of Mr. Burke's Bill. The next head of obser-
vation• was the sinecures to persons executing offices
by "deputy, amounting annually in England to
272,355, as stated, in the Report, which did
nor comprise any return of sinecure offices, arising
from many of the ceded or conquered colonies.
In this large sutra the sinecures for.t he Courts of Jus-
t ice were included. He did not mean by his reso-
lutions to attack these in the immediate possession of
these offices, but he must press upon the attention
of the the opinion expressed so strongly in
the report
,of the Commission appointed to examine
itt.to the .nature of theel offices during Lord .Sand-
w adminiStratiOn—an opinion in the highest de-
glee unfavoUrable to them, and the force of .which
must, at the present day, be more strongly felt.—
These were the principal head's with respe4t to pen-
sions, allowanceS, coMpeuSat ions, or sinecure offices,
England. - lii Scotland they were to much less
extent. The report stated, that soon.after the ac-
cession, the Scotch.revenue applied in the payment
of pensions was 59401. ;', it now amounted to
:9,600.' In Scotland, the offices excepted by de-.
puty amounted annually to 29,3001. , Ireland was a
more fruitful soil fig these pensions, compensations,
84'e. The pensions on the Irish establishment, un-
der the regulation of an At of Parliament, exceed-
ad, according to the repOrt Of the Committee, by
10,0601.. a year' the ,sum regulated by that At,10,--..
There were many compensations 'granted in Ireland,
the principle of which was most objetAionable., He
took it for granted, that in examining_ into the tut-
cure of compensations, it was indispensable to inquire'
into the interest Which the individnal had in the of—
lice, for the deprivatien of
.which the commisation•
Was granted. It was clear, that he who held an
office froM which he was removable
.at pleasure,
'was entitled to compensation.. for the loss of• that,
Office. As for the Irish compensations, be proposed
in one of hiti Resolutions to apply the some remedy
to them as to that branch in this country. Be
would' give them publicity, and have an annual
statement of them laid', before the Flipuse. There
wag only one topic more to which I.ie'shotild
thi:ir attention, and this was to the interpretation
too generally given to the 4a of Parliament, allow-
ing the retirement of Public Officers, after a term
of service,,, with. a portion of their salary. This, in
hiS mind, was understood with too great latitude, and
persOns in; the prime oflifp, in full vigour, and
competent to. perform the duties of their offices,...
iniagined..they 44,a:right to retire upon an an-
ndity. 'One
.of his resolntions would, go to prevent
this, and to prOvide that :pp retirement 'should take
plaCe without a certnieste .of past services, age of
the 'person, and the causeof retirement, being laid
before Parliament. • This. was 'the general view he
took of the subject which,. being unwilling to.detain
the From, he had,compressed and stated as shortly
as.,possible. He wished the Resolntiens lie should
have the !lemur to submit to be laid upon the table,
and some time allowed for their consideration, be-
fore a future day was appointed to take the opinion
ok•iliej-louse upon them. The Hon. Gentleman
'here teed lets Resolutions, which were exafily• in
conformity to thesentinterits!xpreiged,in his Apecch,
and concluded by moving, Thin the House should,
on this day seinnight, resolve itself,inio a Committee
en theThiyd, Report ofibe Commissioners of .Public
OfficeS.

Mr. TitoriNTON secooded the motion, which had
his most hearty asseet, ,though he Might .perhaps
think the Resolutions did nut go far enough on the
subje6l,.of Sinecure Places. As this matter was,
however, of great iMportairce, as well in a politiCal
as an F.Tonomical point of view, be reserved himself_
to the time When it would come fully under cousi7
deration. in his opinion, some few of-the great
sinecures might, for the service and advantage ot the
country,- be retained
,but it was the little middling
ones that required revision and corretlion and in-
deed, generally 'speaking, he thoeght. thesystem of
sinecures' might he done away. Although he agrtvd
with the Hon. Mover in his views, yet there were
some inaccuracies in his statement, which it -was
bur proper tea torre6t. In' his first ,broad general
ground, he (4r. Martin) had stated the whole
amount of pensions, . &c. paid, - at the suns of
1;toti,000l. whereas upon the sbest calculation be
had been able to bestow on the matter, itiappeared
him to be not Mere than 1,400,0001, inchuline
several items not, included by his i lon. Friend. 'Of
thlssum muchcould not be classed under the heads
assigned by the ,Hen, Gentleman. For: Instance,.
34,000. to Officers! widows-43,0001. for the Ord
nance 'Department-7,0001. for the Navy-8,0001:
to-the „First. Lord of the, Admiralty and his officers,
and 14; 01. - under the 'head 'of .promiscuous v for
dispatches, :I.z.c. could not be called pensions or
sirtentres from the crown.—Altogether 300,0001.
might to he dednaed .from the iiiioo,oool. of the
Honourable Gentlernan, and of the t 400,0001. 're-.
maining, many aunts would expire with t hey lives et-
the Grantees 03,6001.2 instance, arising; from
the Irish Ilnion, being grants to, persons to compen-
sate for the loss of offices on tlik event. There
were further dedu6lions whip!) he. stated, for Eng-
-95,0001, Ireland 73,0001, Scotland w 7,0001..
Foreign, Ministers, &c.. 31,0001, which' would re-
duce the aelnal sum total of pension list to 500,0001._
Evnn this hoWever was a large sum; 'and,he thought
the Crown ought to.(teutider restriftions in the dis-
posal -of 'it, and the specific reasons for the various
grants -laid before the House.. The Hon. crentlet-
wan in his statement of sinecures had also been a'
little obscure, and had over-stated the amount.—;
The, total amount was not more than 232,001. 'in-
eluding 52.1. for Law Courts,.-&e.; He wished mere-
ly to correet this inaccuracy, while at the same time.
he expressed his belief that in the vim, whatever it
was, a diminution might be made. He agreed in
the propriety , of giving Parliament hall information
Qt k these, SOjealfi 2111111181ly: The public could no
longer, be-kelit in ignorance; end from-the diffusion
of politictll
knowledge,it was now necessary tp hi
every thing' so clearly stated, 'that:they might not
iron badgroulid,;, and want of, information. He
otentionedthat he was iii hopes an Appendix to the

Third Report would soon appear, which-would throw
greater light' upon thi4 important subjed.
Mr. MARTIN explained.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEOVER
mewed the Honourable Mover on the manner in
which he had brought this matter under the cottsi.
deratiorrof the House, and his affording them an
opportunity of giving it all ,the deliberate investiga-
tion due to its importance. He had paid to the Re,
port alluded to much attention,' and would have felt
it his duty to bring it bet Ore them, had he been
enabled to make Up: his mind sufficiently on the
subje&. But he had not had time to do: this before.'
the meeting 'of" Parliatnent, and since that period,
he hactstill less 'been 'able to devote himself to its
considerati9n. He agreed 'with the fast :Speaker,
that the public ought 'to be correCily infOrmed, and
paid a fine tiling°, to the memory of Mr. Pitt,' who
first promoted-these communications to the Country
of the state of their Finances and E-xpenditurc.
He .coincided, with. the' Honourtible MoVer in the
propriety of annualklayintsacconntSef stiperannun.
OOHS, 'bilore,,Parliatheut, and hadnoobjealim
to adopt his resolutions with some Modifications be
wOuld,hereafter :notice. There were some parts of
the detail also into which the Honourable Gentle-

man bad gone, of which lievOold not approve.-----
With regard to . the : Pensions paid out of the old
stores, • tre.had no Objettion to their being' brought
under the view of the House, but did not imagine
the 'Honourable Gentleman conk! mean 10 make the
grants themselves, the subjea of: annual discussion,
which woad be equally'unpleasint and improper.;--
He expressed his. coavielion: that in such Matters
niriisters would be more economical than the House,
though it was proper for Parliament to have the chti-
trout over them. He also agreed with the Honour-
other points too ,not touched' on at all by the Hot.)
Honour-
tilde
thei iC'AC:oia;ne:M:t iottit;tl:.liscol le'
eh
ir‘seY.;l3; i oocattlliisic. e‘iliel e'raieirt d: it'iciete; St
;61rilYel
CweitubrscosPai Foreign.J6tristtioce,tnanygt:oidn ir4tlegruali:taionttilst there were
ebree
made„. Ile apprehended that 'it would not be pos-
sible to carry the Resolutions into law t:',is Seqsion,
andirecommended that after 'this opinion of Parlia-
tnent. should 'be expressed, it might be left to the
l'_:xecutive Government to carry the, same into effeet.
He wt;101d not _trouble the House further at ail.;
time, but had thought. itAiecessary at first to assure
the ;Honourable Gentleman that he was ready toko
considerable. Jengths: . with . him, and left it to the
House to judge whether it might be necessary to ad-
dress' his Majesty. on the:subjeftt. .. ,
Lord ,H.' PETTY concurred in the Resolutions and
sentiments of the Honourable-Mover,. and approved
,highly of the candid!mantierin which they had been
met, by the Chancellor of the &chequer.: .The
amount of pensions, &c. amounted, to t.;52d part
of the annual expenditure,,and deduCting what was
paid to the; Royal .Faritilyi and what was authorised
by votes of Parliament to 1-80th part. Therefete;
bearing so small a.proportion, it wain& to be ex-
peeled that any material alleviation, of 'the public
burdens would be,etfeeled by the reform- 6'6W pro-
posed. fete slid notsay this in disparagement of the
motion (which he applauded), but merely to pre-
vent any false opinions:gOing abroad. • He consider-
ed every diminution .of , expence as, .coenniendable,
particularly when it was incurred liar no services, or
to increase the. influence of the Crown. It was also
important, as it shewed.theintention of the House
to-the minutest .trillea. The question they had to
consider was not whether public services %vete to he .
rewarded, which no one contd. hesitate to decide.
upon, but whether sinecures were the hest mode 'Of '
rewarding, and if these sineCdres s ere properly, ape
plied.' The 'Honourable :Gentle ritan had not pro,.
posed to do away sinecures altogether, for it he bad ,
(torte' so, he must have suggested a substitute per-
, hags still nthre expensive. -The'Noble LORI lu her
explained the nature of the design; reComtnended
economy and a strict investigation into tire fonr and
a half per cent, duty, and the Scoteb Poni,ion duty ;
and concluded' by of jeCting to any delay in not haw
; ing Bills conformable: to the resolUtions passed dur-
ing the present Session of Parliament.
Mr. nose corrected a mis-statement, with regard
to the four and a Half per Cent. duty. On an ave..
, rage for ten years, it JO been ,forted to produce
20; '
0001. per annum . rind'svas Charged with 28,900).
per annum to the Duke of Gloucester._ in. older to
r.dieve this fund trent' so ;reef an overcharge, his
Royal HightiesSrs allowance had, been: removed to
the Cor:olidatdd Fund; but the .li percent. duty
wpts not . in ConsetittenCe,aPplied 'to the uses of the,
,Crown. Ile noticed the difference, between, the
greis, and nettstateinents of salary, li,:e. A relation
ot lei; held an ofliee eslithated at '.!,4001. per annum,
while' in 'fa& it netied no more than, tool the
C:o.(Yitl.,beingpaid lOr stamps, &c.
Mr. tEEEOtY 'approved of the Reiolutions, but
did oat think 64 went far enough. Ail Air.
Pitt'S relations, v'e.ri:, pros ided 'lei with pensions.
of six, twelve, or 15,001, a-year.; aod.Mr. Long,.
contrary' to the A&
,deefaring that none:but. !likes ,
.of the Blood should have a pension above i. 2001.
had a pension of ii,ool. iodepeechin of the:profits:.
of 'his , situation. He could se? no reason „wheo
Lord %Wand others were deprived of their parent, :
places; that • the sante.' tltould riot have been done;
:by Lords Buckingham,
,C,:amtlett
,and Arden. All., ;
these Matters were to be considerpd. ; •
After a few reniarkS irinu Mr. Iliddelph, Mr. •
Hall; Mr. P. Moore,
.and etileFis the Sile.atwli W 44
put, and agreed to, .
The Irish Militia Completion Bill WO •tnad :a se. ;
cond time,' and committed for It his day Senn igh t .
The ATTOUNEY 61INErt Al., brought in a Bill to ex-. ; ,
tend the jurisdietion of the Justices of the. Pewee in.
the matter Of Cdstotn-house seizures.--Read a first,. ,
and. Orderett to be read a second tinio o4l'4l4rylor,
-. Mr. Husit.tssOu bronght up the Itcturos ordered.:
respeeling the Dincli. Of-beers in `British Pay.
Mr. \Nikita lin VA /I'. gave
,notice of a motion respeel
ing LotterieS, .in the' Committee of Supply on ,Fri....
day.' .
The CUANCEGOE of the Excneci.uett said, he
did not eonceiVeit necessary,..as Goverenumt , were
no(bringing any Lotteries forward at that time. ,

The farther consideration of the:Bill for Prevent-
in the Sale a Uttices.was postpOned till
That-day, . • • 4-

The Ship Ownet's Bill was road 71 second time,
stud committed tor to'rnorrow seinnight.

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