The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-03 00:00:00

people has been grievously altered for the worse by the
deprivation of food with which they have subsequently
been visited. Be it always remembered those wretched
persons never can expect, and never did expect, to re-
receive such wages in the course of the year as would
enable them to live, however hardly and scantily • no,
they depended for subsistence upon the produce
of the patches of ground adjoining their wretched
cabins. Well, in the last two years we have seen a
repetition in an aggravated form of some of those
calamities which at various times have afflicted Ireland
—one occurring in the middle of the last century, and
another in 1822, when great relief was afforded by the
Parliament and people of this country. It now, there-
fore, becomes a question whether relief of a similar
kind shall be continued, or whether Parliament will
think it a wise course to leave the inhabitants of the
destitute unions to take their miserable chance of sur-
viving until the next harvest without making any effort
to save them. In considering this subject the House has
felt—and very naturally—that the exertions which have
been made in the last two years by the people of this
country and the Imperial Parliament, in the shape of
advances out of the national exchequer, have been of
an extraordinary nature. Ido not wish to speak as to
the mode in which relief was given, or to discuss again
the method in which the people were relieved. But then
gentlemen say that nothing was done except feeding the
people. Although I consider that feeding the people
was absolutely necessary—(Hear, hear)—yet I must
also remind them that there have been very great ex-
ertions made by Parliament in order to stimulate the in-
dustry of Ireland and to place her in a better position to
withstand future calamities, I hold in my hand a gene-
ral estimate of grants and loans for works of a repro-
ductive nature which have been made in the years 1846,
1847, and 1848. The sums advanced under the Land
Improvement Act were 500,0001.; for land improvement
and drainage, under Mr. Labouchere's letter, 200,0001.;
extraordinary advances for arterial drainage, 370,0001.;
granted for navigations connected with drainage,
100,0001.; grants and loans for the improvement of the
Shannon, 123,0004; ordinary Board of Works loan fund,
180,0004; grants and loans for the erection of piers and
harbours, 100,0001.; advances for railways, 620,0001. So
that no less a sum than 2,193,0004 had been advanced in
those three years for what are called works of a repro-
ductive nature; and be it remembered, that though
500,0001. had been advanced under the Land
Improvement Act, there still remains 1,000,000 L
which has been applied for, and which will
be drawn for from time to time, for works of im-
provement and drainage authorized by the Act, making
in the whole 3,193,0001. I think, with that statement,
it cannot be said that Government or Parliament have
entirely neglected all works of a reproductive nature, and
that the whole of the money given has been entirely
consumed in works of charity to those who would other-
wise have starved. Be it remembered, also, that to main-

tain the people in a season of such great and overwhelm-
ing calamity, when they were unable to obtain work of a
productive nature, to keep them alive was really the main
purpose in view.—(Hear, hear.) Although we had
made those efforts, we proposed, at the commencement
of the present session, in continuance of the grant made
last year, a sum of 50,000 L for the support of those unions
in which great distress existed. It was stated in this
House, and with great force, that already much had been
done, that already very large grants had been made, and
that it it was right to continue this system in any way
it was right that Ireland should contribute her portion
generally to that fund. Now, in looking at the burden
of the poor-law, I certainly find that with regard to
many parts of Ireland there is no greater burden, if so
great a burden, imposed as is imposed on many parts of
England. I find, for instance, looking at the county of
Antrim, at the beginning of the return with respect to
the charges for last year, that the average amount of
expense in three unions has been ls. 2d., Is. 10id., and
Is. rid. In two unions in Armagh it has been ls. 4d.,
3s. 4d., and 2s. 10d. In Down the average has been
about Is. 3d. or Is. 4d; in Fermanagh, 2s. qd., 3s. lid.,
and 2s. Bd.; in Londonderry, is. 3d., ls. 4d., Is. 9d.,
and Is. 6d. I find with regard to several counties in
Leinster there is a similar amount of charge. That in
three unions in Kildare it has been 25., 7id., Is. 6icl.
In Meath, ls. 2id., 25., 2s. lid., 4s. lid, and ls.
Those are the sums which have been paid under the
poor-law in several parts of Ireland, so that it

cannot be said with regard to those parts of
Ireland that they have been entirely sunk, and dis-
tressed, and ruined by the poor- law.—(Hear, hear.) Oa
the contrary, it does appear, comparing them with many
parts of England and Wales, that they are less burdened
than a good many parishes in Wiltshire and Sussex, and
other parts of this country. It does not seem, there-
fore, impossible they should bear some additional burden
for the sake of those distressed unions to which I have
alluded. When I propose, however, that there should be
a rate in aid collected in Ireland generally, for the sake
of the support of those distressed unions, I am met by
the answer, that this being a local burden, there are no
more obligations on the county of Down than on the
county of Middlesex to support the poor in the county
of Mayo or Sligo. I am met by the argument that it
would be quite as just to impose an additional poor-rate
on Lancashire for the pauperism of Norfolk as to im-
pose it on Kildare for the pauperism of the west of Ire-
land. Now, Sir, there would be much justice in this ar-
gument if it could be said that Ireland altogether was
taxed to the same amount with England—that she
paid and contribtred to the same degree in proportion
to her wealth to all the taxes to which the people of
Great Britain are subjec r.—(Loud cries of "Hear, bear.")
But it was put forward, and with great emphasis, by
tlie Hon. Gentleman the Member for Northamptonshire,
:Olen we proposed a temporary grant, that there were
taxes to a very large amount payable in this country
which were not paid in Ireland at all ; the Hon. Gentle-
man said to the amount of 11,000,0001. I have here a
statement which makes it even more. It appears that
are pay in Great Britain, for income-tax, 5,300,0001. ;
for land-tax, 1,150,0004 ; for assessed taxes, 3,400,0001.;
making, in direct taxation alone, 9,850,0004 ; and for
duty on bricks, hops, post-horses, and soap, 2,300,0001;
making, altogether, 12,150,0001. I think it is but just
to say, that if there is additional taxation in this coun-
try of upwards of 12,000,000/ it entirely answers the
case with regard to the local taxation which we propose
to levy for the benefit of the western districts of Ireland.
I find Hon. Gentlemen say, and very readily, at this mo-
ment, " Impose on us the same taxation that you
have in this country —impose upon Ireland
exactly the same taxes, and then take from
the Imperial Treasury anything that may be required
for the distressed parts of that country." That
is readily said; but I think if we were to propose not
only an income-tax but assessed taxes in Ireland—(Hear,
hear)—if we said, instead of 300,0001. we would charge
Ireland with 1,000,0001. of taxation—if instead of 6d.,
something like is. or ls. 6d. were asked, we should then
find that gentlemen would very much change their opi-
nions on this subject—(Hear)—and that, having made
that profession in order to get rid of thelpresent proposal,
to which they have a great objection, they would then
object with twice as much fierceness and twice as much
obstinacy to the proposal r should then make.—(Hear.)
Even now, with regard to the income-tax alone, there is
7d. in the pound paid in this country; and let me ob-
serve with regard to this 6d. in the pound which I pro-
pose, the tenant occupier would be asked for 6d. addi-
tional poor-rate. He would take half of that from the
rent he paid to his landlord, but if he had income-tax to
pay, then we should demand from him 7d. in the pound,
and he would take the whole of that sum from his
landlord when he afterwards paid his rent. You
would have to collect 7d. in the pound from all
persons who were tenants of those who had more than
150/. a year—(Hear, hear)—and those persons at least
would be subject to a reduction of 7d. in the pound from
their income, instead of 3d. as I now propose. With
regard to the measure itself, I certainly have no pecu-
liar fondness for this mode of rating Ireland rather than
any other, but I do believe if we were to withdraw this
proposition and substitute an income-tax, we should find,
in another shape, objections to charging Ireland for the
relief of Ireland, and the same argument, that the Im-
perial Exchequer ought to be answerable, that we have
now to encounter. But the objection goes further than
this. It is said, and we were told last night that it was a
matter of feeling affecting even the loyalty of the loyal
province of Ulster.--(Hear, hear.) Ido not think that
those who represent that province can represent her
fairly when they assert that her loyalty would be im-
paired by such a proposition.—(Hear, hear.) I can
well understand if it were a question of right, like
that which Hampden resisted, that 6d. or 3d. or ls.
might be as objectionable to them as if it were the largest
sum, and that they would be ready to stake their ex-
istenee against that sum ; but it is no question
of right. Everybody acknowledges the right of the Im-
perial Parliament to tax Ireland as well as England.
All that the Imperial Parliament has done has been to
tax Great Britain when she has not taxed Ireland, but
a u t
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toldnobody has denied that it is competent for Parliament
to impose an income-tax or assessed taxes on Ireland at
any time when it should be thought necessary. Then,
not being a matter of right, I most say I cannot believe
that the loyalty of Ulster is of such a nature that it
would be impaired by the imposition of a tax of this
kind for the relief of persons who were destitute and
suffering the extremity of hunger.—(Hear, hear.) I
believe their loyalty is founded on attachment to the
throne, to the institutions of this country; on the sym-
pathy with the religion of this country, and the memory
of the many dangers and of the many victories in which
they have been associated. I cannot think that a feel-
ing of this nature can be impaired because a rate of this
kind is imposed, and because they are asked to bear some
part of the burden which for years together Great
o riiatera that:na hutaid thispeaor
Britain has borne without complaint.—(Hear, hear.)
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either in or likely to be in a state of very great distress.
There is no reason that I know why the distress should
bo one of continuance for many years more. My ex-
pectation is that one of two things must infallibly happen
—either you will find that by the return of good and
plentiful harvests there will be sufficient food and em-
ploy went for the people in those distressed districts, and
that there will be such a change of culture, and such an
employment of capital in those districts, that the people
may be placed in a state of comparative comfort, and then
you are relieved from the burden in that manner, or else
you will find that the people, seeing that they have no
prospect of the restoration of that food upon which they
deptnded, will emigrate to other districts, to other
t
parts of Ireland, to Scotland, to England—(A laugh)—to
North American and Australian colonies, and to the
United States of America. That is what you find they
have done to a great degree in the last three seasons.
It is not without example that great calamities have be-
fallen a people in consequence of the failure of either
their occupation or their means of livelihood. Many
ears ago a great population was maintained in some of
the Western Isles of Scotland by the manufacture of
kelp. That manufacture was displaced by the discovery
of certain chemical preparations, and that population
could, in consequence, find no subsistence. Their means