The Sun.
London, England, 1825-02-04 00:00:00

SUN.

in fact it is advancing) with redoubled rapidity,
now that so many of those restrictions are
removed.

[TILE PUBLIC LEDGER.]
The Speech, which was delivered yesterday
by Commission, gives ample scope for honest
congratulation, and, with one or two exceptions,
is entitled to unqualified approbation. We quote
the following passage with thut proud satisfac-
tion which every Englishman must feel at the
glowing description it contains of the prosperity
of the country :—" There never was a pe-
riod in the history of this country, when all the
great interests of the nation were, at the same
time, in so thriving a condition, or when a feel-
ing of content and satisfaction was more widely
diffused through all classes of the British
people. It is no small addition to the gratifica-
tion of his Majesty, that Ireland is partici-
pating in the general prosperity." Strong as this
language is, it has a taint of exaggeration;
and the reference to the state of Ireland
makes the whole complete, as a just sub-
ject of national exultation. If that country did
not share in the general improvement, there
would be a flaw in the whole, which even the
most splendid eloquence could not gloss over. It
had been long the fashion to consider her situa-
tion as one of those desperate political cases, alike
incapable of improvement and repose, but we
now see the rottenness of this theory ; and are
glad to see it admitted that there is no disease of
the political body, however inveterate, but will
yield to enlightened and kind treatment. ft is
somewhat strange, however, to see harshness re-
commended, when its necessity has bee❑ tri-
umphantly disproved ; and it is certain!), anoma-
lous to speak of tranquillity and coercion in the
same breath. To dissolve the Association, with-
out relieving the Catholics from their disabilities,
would show a spirit wholly different to that
which guides the rest of our policy ; and which
would account for the proposed augmentation of
our Army. We hope, however, that Ministers
will mix- conciliation with firmness ; and that
when they have a law to put down the Associa-
tion, they will introduce a Bill to admit the
Catholics within the pale of the Constitution.

Emu paEss.]

We have not space or time t( do more than
briefly call the attention of our readers to the
debates in both Houses last night. The admira-
ble speech of Mr. tiecretary Canning- N‘ ill be read
with great satisfaction.

[MORNING T1ER.411).1
- As it isqlte peculiar province of the stage " to
show the age andbody of the time, its form and
pressure," we ought not to be surprised that its
professors of our day exhibi(„,.littheir own pro-
per perions, the two mostpreVaiiing characteris-
tics of the age—quackery and humbug.—When
Mr. Etliston, therefore, in the face of an offended
audience, squeezes Mr. bean's hand, and the lat-
ter
kisses the managerial fist of the other—when
Mr. Kean, with a patriotic enthusiasm, expresses
a pious hope that the persecution he is enduring
will not, for the honour of his country, reach
the pages of foreign Journals, we have two
as admirable instances of both these qualities
as their most devoted professor can wish. But
as far as common sense and common decency
are concerned, the very reverse of these things ,
would have been better. Ilad Mr. Elliston,
when he seized the hand of his " co•mate and
brother in exile," exclaimed, " Brother, bro-
ther, we are both in the wrong," the audience
would have been better pleased with the truth,
if not the sincerity of the avowal : and as to Mr.
Kean's hope that the affair will not reach foreign
Journals, though we may wish for his sake it were
not the case, yet the thing having been braved,
and having happened, we rejoice, for the moral
character of the country, that it should be so.
We will not think so meanly of foreign Jour-
nals, or of their readers, as to suppose that the
knowledge of the manner in which a British
audience and the British Press have seized upon
and resented the present outrage • upon public
morals and decency, will not tend to confirm and
elevate the high sense of honour and propriety
with NI hich, we trust, our national character
abroad is stamped, in spite of the loose ex-
amples some of our expatriated countrymen may
present to their attention. But we are tired
of this nauseus subject. Ileretofore,-" when the
brains ' were out, the man would die here-
tofore, when an audience condemned a per-
former—when they thrice refused to hear one
word of his part, the manager, with respectful
submission to their will, withdrew the obnoxi-
ous actor from their view. But now, forsooth,
this is all persecution, and the audience are the
offenders, and not the actor ! If there really
were any difference of opinion among the mo-
ral and right-feeling part of mankind upon the
occasion, we would readily pause for a deci-
sion of the question. But there actually nei-
ther is nor can be any such thing. how the
audience might have- received Mr Kean six
months, or even one month hence, is quite
another question. But the audacity of not only
braving public censure, but of claiming pub-
lic applauses on the very heel of one of the most
profligate displays which has ever disgraced the
annals of the country, admits but of one decision
on the part of those who have to decide the
matter. That decision had been unequivocal-
ly pronounced : and if • the bad taste—the bad
judgment—or the avarice of the manager, conti-
nues to convert the Theatre into an arena of riot
and contention, there is an authority which must
be resorted to to prevent U.

PRICE SEVENPENCU.

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, THURSDAY, FEB. 3.

This day Parliament assembled for the dispatch of business,
His MA,TESTY'S health not permitting him to attend in person,
the Session was opened by Commission.
At tivt 7:ve o'clock Lord GwYDYn, the Lord Great Chamber-
lain, examined the cellars and vaults under the Speaker'shouse,
and other parts of the building, as is customary at the corn-,
mencement of every Session. •
At two o'clock we observed many of their Lordships arriving,
and at half-past two the House assembled. By this time many
Ladies, in full dress, were admitted into the body of the House.
The Lords Commissioners, viz. the Archbishop of CANTER-
BURY, the LORD CHANCELLOR, the Earls of WESTMOR-
LAND, SHAFTESBURY, and HARROWDY, having taken their
seats on the Woolsack,
The LORD CHANCELLOR ordered that the Commons
should be summoned to the bsr of their Lordships' House, to,
hear his Majesty's Commission for opening Parliament, and
the Speech read.
In a fete minutes the SPEAKER, attended by a number of
the :Members of the Rouse of Commons, appeared at the box.
The Commission by which their Lordships were empowered
to open Parliament having been read,
The LORD CHANCELLOR rose, and delivered his Ma-
jesty's most gracious Speech to both Houses, (a correct copy of
which will be found in THE SUN of yesterday).
The Commons having withdrawn,
Viscount STRANGFORD was introduced as an English Baron,
and took the oaths and his seat.

The House then adjourned during pleasure.
At five o'clock the LORD CHANCELLOR resumed his seat on
the Woolsack. _ _

On the motion of the Earl of LIVER pooL, the Select Vestries
Bill was read a first time.
THE ADDRESS.

The LORD CIIANCEILoRI:ving-again read the Speech
from the Woolsack, and the Clerk having done the same at the
table,
Viscount DUDLEY and WARD rose.—ln moving an
humble Address to his Majesty,in answer to the gracious Speech
from the Throne, betook a view of the different situation in which
others had stood when performing the same duty, either during
the course of a long and doubtful war, in which success was pur-
chased by the greatest sacrifices, or at a later period, when after
that war had been closed by a series of astonishing triumphi,
commercial difficulties had succeeded, and obstructed the gene-
ral prosperity of the country. Those tasks required abilities of
a higher nature than those which he possessed, for it was his
good fortune, after a struggle of thirty years, to have to call
upon their Lordships to carry to the foot of the Throne their
unmixed, and he trusted unanimous congratulations, on a state
of prosperity which had never before been attained or surpassed
by this country. When peace had crowned her efforts some
years ago, a long period of distress had ensued, and it was
only now that she enjoyed the benefits of her heroism and re-
solution, and reaped all she had sown in constancy and diffi-
culty. He called upon those among their Lordships whose
attention to public affairs had been early awakened, like.
his own, by the storm that raged in Europe, and
who had watched with anxiety the accidents of' the
contest, to consider the striking contrast which the present
displayed, and the manner in which so great an end had been
achieved. If any deviation frual our Constitution had been
imposed upon us by the pressure of events, no sooner had that
pressure been removed than we had returned to our Constitu-
tion with elastic vigour. He then directed their Lordships'
attention to the flourishing state of the arts, and the astonish-
ing results presented by that world, discovered a few cen-
turies ago, and inhabited by barbarous nations, which had
.now become civilized states ; a world abounding, not only
with those metals which allured cupidity, but with those
more useful productions which sustained life, promoted in-
dustry, and formed the foundation of boundless prospe-
rity. The people of England felt the advantages which they
enjoyed, and general contentment was on a level with general
prosperity. There-never was a time when the spirit of useful
improvement was more active, not only in objects of art, but
in the details of domestic administration, or when the spirit cf
mischief was more completely subdued. There never was 1,
time when there was more attachment and obedience to the
throne; not the blind obedience of the servile herd, but thet •
allegiance which was not less rational than due. Never bad
there been more enterprise or more honourahle ambition. The
documents of our prosperity were in every hand, and one of its
irrefragable proofs was the important fact that we had a dimi-
nished taxation and an encreasing revenue. Our credit stood
at the highest, for our public faith had remained unbroken, and
there was nothing to contrast with our prosperity. In a war
undertaken on the most legitimate grounds, we had contracted
a debt of enormous magnitude, and many had much difficulty
to conceive how we should bear its weight. But we had never
sunk, and instead of violating our engagements, the only criti-
cism upon our finances was, that we had acknowledged a greater
' debt than we had incurred, and that we had overpaid our
cre-
ditors. It was satisfactory to know that our prosperity was
founded on the soundest principles of commerce and political
economy. It was usual when there was a departure from an
established system and the adoption of new principles, that the
advantage should be slow and gradual, but we had been so for-
. tunate, that in every case in which we had made the applica-
tion of new principles, they had produced good effects at
once, without passing through that intermediate state. One
instance in point was the change effected last year by a Noble.
Earl opposite in the Silk Trade. All must recollect the oppo-
sition made to the measure, how the avenues to the House
were obstructed by the Weavers and their Petitions complain-
ing that they should be ruined. But, what had been the result
of that measure ? It had raised the silk trade to a level with
the great staple trade of the country, the cotton trade, and la
all foreign markets from whence they were not excluded, our
silks had the advantage over all others. This was an additional
proof that the great prosperity of England had not arisen ise
consequence of the restrictive system, but in spite of it. Ire-
land also, though in a less degree, had shared the general pro-
sperity ; she had increased In wealth and in, industry, arid not-
withstanding religious animosities, the savage turbulence whicit
had long disgraced that country had given.. way to knowledge
and order. It was too much the fashion to speak of Ireland
as an ill-used country. It was true that in old times England
had governed her as one barbarous country governs. another:
—lt- was true that in later ages Protestant England. had
not adopted the most friendly or liberal policy towards her ; but
for years Ireland had shared the anxious care of. Parlianaent
every effort had been made to promote her interests, and such
a degree of partiality had been displayed towards her, that is
seemed as if Parliament were sensible that a long arrear of kind-
ness was due to her. He wished to avoid controversy, bUt whets
Ireland came in for so much in the situation of the whole empire
and the Catholic question for so much in the situation of Ire-
land, it was impossible to abstain from a few remarks on the
subject. It was his misfortune to differ on this point with some
of those whose measures he was generally disposed to support.
He always thought, and still did think that the final settlemeett
of Ireland depended on Catholic emancipation. He looked.
upon it as the necessary foundation of peace in that country,
because, sooner or later, it was inevitable, and it would be
resube it'ueties would
preferable that it should be considered an act of wilful justice
on the part of those who gave it, than the effect of necessity_
The Catholics laboured' under a great error if they believed
that the Protestants were influenced in their opposition by
merely hostile and exclusive feelings. He did not deny that
such a spirit might mix itself up with other sentiments, but is
was not the spirit which actuated the great Protestant BoaY-
They really feared for the safety of their Religion and their
Church. The truth was, the Catholics suffered for the faults
of their ancestors. It was to be lamented that when those were
in power, and persecuted other creeds, their friend:ifhtialde
au_
hands of the
Heretics them to consider what would be the-
thority which they enjoyed ever passed into
Heretics whom they pursued, and that all h
ecn)ublyd
otheroaly
tremble at the remembrance.,
remember those persecutions, and
cnae'irianeddo.
n which the
and it was that which inspired the averero
He thought it a
Catho-
lics of the present day
had to encounter.of Catholic emancipation,
be remembered and visited on their poste:at their cruelties
did now
prejudice which stood in the way
and conciliatory means.. He therefore
but it was a natural
give way to mild
Catholics using an intemperance of lan,
regretted to find the
belief that their Cla e
calculated to create antu seas
gunge
Their conduct trod on the utmost verge
of eadem.
If the contest
of the law.
than those of argument, in that contest they
were t ey
were not likely to succeed. Every thing like malice or hos-
tility only served to delay their emancipation and to bring 'the
and
were
reasonableeretobe
question to that calamitous issue, who was the strongest

The majority of property in Ireland and the whole of England
backing the Protestant cause, could leave no doubt as to the
result of such a conflict. A time indeed might come when the
Catholies, aided by foreign powers, might prevail by force,
but what then would be the result of their triumph ? What
was it. that they desired ? Admission into the State and a
participation in all the rights and advantages of the Constitu-
tion. But if they come in by violence, they would enter into a
half broken State and participate in expiring liberty and half
extinguished independence 1 Had they not better wait for a
place in a well ordered State, and for a legitimate introduction
to all the blessings of the Constitution ? They had gradually
attained an equality of votes in both houses, by the course of
moderation which they had pursued ; what ought to be, and
wbatwould be the of of what now passed ? They would lose
the friends who wavered, and shake those who were firm. It
_was ooly by retraeing their steps and returning to conciliatory
conduct that they could ever regain the ground which they had
lost. Ile trusted, however, that when the question should come
before their Lordships, they would not be diverted by those
temporary violence% from considering its real state, which was,
whether the general situation -of the Catholics of Ireland was
one which could continue, not for the life of one individual,
et during; the viceroyalty of another, but for ever, as the per-
, manent situation of the country ; or whether if their admission
i•ere an evile it was not a less evil than their constant dis-
content and possible defection. The Noble Viscount then
eulogized - the wise policy which kept us disentangled
from those elhreign connections which might lead us into
danger. He took a view of the state of parties abroad,
some were desirous not to restore the system • existing
befbee the Revolution, to bring back something still
More practically despotic. They regarded our Constitution
as a sort of pest, permitted but dangerous. and sincerely ab-
honed national liberty and independence. They were actuated
by the most hitter feelings towards us, anti resembled their
predeces'sors, the Jacobins, except in this, that they are less
sincere. He said less sincere, because they were those who
had most servilely crouched at the foot of Napoleon's throne,
• •
and complained that we did not assist them in giving them
that liberty and power which they would have employed to
crush us ; for they hated English glory and greatness still more
bitterly than their adversaries. lfs however, it was their pur-
pose to make any attempt against us, let them know that we
possessed ample means to resist aggression. Ile trusted that we
should alltain from taking part in the struggle going on be-
tween those two factions, whose objects were, the one to
crush liberty; the other to disturb the peace of mankind.
England had once been connected with the Continent of
• Europe to curb the power of France, but would now never
lend herself to the views of any power. With respect to the
recognition of the South American States, they complained
that we had not given Spain that consideration, which legiti-
inate "Sovereigns did not spew to us when our colonies revolted.
We aced towards Spain with all good feeling as Allies. We
disdained to run a race of popularity to gain some exclusive ad-
vantages for Ourselves. We abstained from taking the decisive
step as long as there was any contest in arms, or any chance of
accommodation with the Mother Country, but when all hopes
had ceased, it would have been unjust to ourselves to keep
aloof any longer out of regard for • extravagant political no-
tions, whilst the colonies were both able and. willing to main-
tain the accustomed relations of independent states. In fact
*the independence of Old Spain herself was much more ques-
tionable than that of her late colonies. For she was occupied
'by 40,000 French troops, who it was said were -to support her
Government, hut who might overturn and suppress it. if they
pleased. He had seen somewhere an absurd comparison of the
. heeftisal of his late Majesty at an early period of the American
war to recognise the independence of the United States, with
that of the King of Spain to sanction the emancipation of his
`Colonies.
When the King of England had refused to acknow-
ledge the United States, lie had fleets and armies of his own,
and was not seated like Ferdinand on a tottering throne, only
- 'supported by foreigners, detested by the whole country. In
'cur recognition of South America we had proceeded with due
slowness and propriety, and waited for the precise moment
when insurrection ended and lawful government began. The
Noble Viscount then moved an Address which re-echoed the
sentiments of the speech.
Lord GOUT said, that after the very able speech of his
Noble Friend,it would not he necessary for him to trespass long
upon their Lordship's attention. ,The various points alluded
to in his Majesty's Speech were so well observed upon,and the
whole of the general policy so amply embraced by the Noble
. Mover in his eloquent appeal to the House, that he (Lord G.)
would neither be • required nor expected to follow the detains.
But the state of Ireland was such, and the interest taken in it,
• especially by those who were connected with that country was'
so great, that he was sure their Lordships would excuse isiro
for making a few observations on the subject. In the firat,
place, he concurred in thinking that the Noble and_; diStitt-
guished Lord at the head of his lajesty's Governmerinest
land, was entitled to the approbation of every moderate and
unbiassed mind. Their Lordships were aware of the ditficul-
es in which that country was placed, when the Noble lord un-
dertook the: Government. In the South particularly, no man's
life or property was safe. Outrages of all kinds were cone.
mitted, and the public peace was daily violated in a manner
which seemed to bid defiance to the authority oflaw. Since then
however, a different aspect of affairs had arisen, the offenders
were brought back to a proper sense of their duty ; the con-
stabulary system was established in full force, and the general
" temper of the piople was improved. As a natural conse.
qtience of such a change, the value of land had risen, anti he
• hoped, if the same system was persevered in, to be able to
cosgratulate the ,-louse, at a future period, on the growing
and increasing prosperity of that important part of the empire.
- Sincerely attached 'to Ireland, as he was, he would presume to
call their Lordships' attention to a body now existing there—.
a body of which assumed all the powers of Parliament, even
to the extent of imposing taxes on the people. They had este-
Wished what they called a Catholic Rent, obviously and pro-
fessedly. with a view to enforce the measure called Catholic
Emaricip ttion. he should have an opportunity hereafter, to-
gether' with their Lordships, of offering his opinion on the Ca-
tholic question, when it was brought distinctly before the
House. Under that persuasion he would abstain at present from
entering into that subject ; but thus much he would say at pre-
' sent, that if he was the worst enemy of the Catholics,. he
could not advise them to a course more destructive of their
• interests, or the purpose they had in view, than that which
ki hlPine ! from the Mini—
sterial side).. No man could hear or read of teir proceed-
: logs, without feeling that they were acting it, direct hostility.
' to' their own success. They indulged in the most inflamma-
tory speeches ; they told the people that they were slaves,
• and that the Protestants held them in bondage. Was this a
• language calculated to advance their claims? There were, as
matters now stood, two Parliaments in this Empire ; there was
the Catholic Parliament of Ireland, and the Protestant Perna-
anent of England. The two Parliaments could not exist toge-
- they. lie therefore agteed. fully in-that-part of his Majesty's
' Speech, which alluded to the -circumstance of this Association.
e But the collectors of the Catholic rent, and the debaters by
whom it was promoted, affected to issue proclamations, with a
mew' to tranquillize the people. It would be recollected, how-
-. . tier, that the people were tranquillized before by the active
• measures of the Government. The claim of those. partisans to
' the •eeedit of tranquillizing Ireland was therefore absurd. He
did not Mean to insinuate that any of the leader:id the Catho-
- lie Body were capable of advising the people toiziistribe laws,
• hut he would say, that the power which they now assumed was
• too great to be left, consistently with prudence, in the hands of
' the peony. He did not think that any obstacle should be
• thrown in the way of the Catholics on coming forward to peti-
' tion Parliament ; but when they come to the house they should.
come as petitioners, not as dictators,. and then lie had no doubt
that their prayers would be considered with all the solemnity
' and patience which their importance demanded ; but they
should approach the Legislature, not as rival and hostile Le-
i g,islators ; they should bear in their hands the olive-branch, and
not the sword.
Lord KING then rase, and said that he perfectly -approved
of those measures which had for their object the promotion of
, the industry anti commerce of the country.
' The Earl of LAUDERDALE called the Noble Lord to
order, on the ground that the Address, to which be was about
to speak, bad neither been read from the Woolsack, nor by the
' Clerk.
• • The LORD CHANCELLOR, Lord lIOLLAND, and Lord
DUDLEY and WARD, gave their opinions on the point of or-
der, in a tone of voice that 'was not audible below the bar.
-The Earl of LAUDEttDALE repeated his objection, and
affirmed, that during the whole of his Parliamentary experience
' he had never heard any question debated without having been
first read, either by their Speaker, who was the Lord Chan-
" cellos, or by the Clerk.
• The Earl of LIVERPOOL said it was entirely his fault that
the Address had not been read. lie would admit that, in strict
form, both the 'Mover and the Lord Chancellor should read
- the Address. • It was omitted by both in the present instance,
' add he had not noticed the oversight ; but the shortest mode of
' proreeding would be to hear it now from the Woolsack, rather
' than to persist in a discussion which had arisen from a 'ilium-
derstanding altogether.
• - The LORD CHANCELLOR obServed, that the fault was
I neither in the Noble Mover, nor in his Noble Friend, who had
taken it upon himself, but in him (the Lord -Chancellor),
whose business it was to read it. Probably he might have been
influenced- by a wish to spare his own langs, but-if the House
had a mind to hear it now, he would read it.--The Lord Chan-
cellor then read the Address; which was an echo of the Speech,
as usual. t.

Lord KING said, that';' as he was about to say before, he
Joined in giving full Waise to the measures which had been
adopted for the improvement' of• the commerce of the country.
As the Speech of (he Chia ZMagistrate of England, he was

willing to give the Speech all praise, for it was itself conceived
in a tone of approbation excepting only the allusion to the
proceedings of the Catholics in Ireland: It was to be remem-
bered, however, in the midst of their most grateful feelings, that
the Sovereign who made the Speech, the Sovereign of this Pro-
testant country, was also the Sovereign of six millions of Irish
Catholics, who had suffered, and were still suffering under all
the evils of mis-govirtinient. The world was certainly grown
wiser than it had been. The day was happily gone by, when
religious opinionte'and matters of conscience were made a pretext
for trampling upon those who professed particular creeds and
modes of faith. There were but two exceptions to this general
improvement—those exceptions were Turkey and Ireland.—
The only legitimate Sovereign in Europe who still adhered to
the. old system was the Sovereign of Turkey, in his policy to-
wards the Greeks. When the Greeks wished to be treated a
little better thhn dogs, and presumed to shew their teeth, the
Sovereign wished for a divided Divan, as the best mode of en-
countering the difficulty. His Grand Vizer, whose office might
be compared with that of our Prime Minister, was one who,
with a good character and reputation, was still so careless of his
own dignity as to suffer himself to be insulted in his own Divan.
But this Divan consisted of many discordant materials. The
next officer was the Reis-Effendi—a man who understood the
foreign policy of the country well ; who acted up to that know-
ledge as far as lie could contrive, in the midst of a quarrelling
anti jealous Cabinet, and who had the credit given him by ge-
neral opinion, of being capable of doing much better, if he had
not the misfortune to be resisted by his own colleagues. Their
_hardships could form no idea of the nature of the Divan, whose
members he was now describing. They differed upon all sub-
jects. Envy, hatred, and malice, and all uncharitableness,
prevailed at every sitting, and influenced every measure adopt-
ed towards that country-
- " Where the rage of the vulture, the love of the turtle
Now melt into sorrow, now madden to crime."
The sentiments of the Reis Effendi were favourable to the
Greeks, but he was overruled and counteracted in his good in-
tentions. The next person of consequence in this motley Ca-
binet was at the head of the Police of that country. He was
said to be a fair man, a great lover of propriety and decorum,
but was a decided enemy to the Greeks. Human patience
could hold out no longer, but the growing influence of the
Reis Effendi saved Turkey, and the controul of their police
was dismissed at last as a uselesi supernumerary of the Divan.
Another of these great personages was the Captain Pashaw,
and then came the great head of the Turkish law, a man who
had lived so long in place that it was thought he would never
consent to be removed from it. His great aversion was change
of any kind, and he carried his aversion so far, as to feel a:
horror of all improvement. Whether in law or in policy, in
foreign-or domestic arrangements, this officer was said to be the
champion of existing abuses. He was said to be the most
consummate master of intrigue in the whole Divan ; upon one
occasion he had espoused the cause of a great Sultaness, and
abandoned after when it suited his purpose, and on its being
proposed to admit the Greeks to certain privileges, he was the
author of a furious and fanatical cry which proclaimed the
3lussulman's faith in danger. His conscience was represent-
ed as particularly tender in cases where his own interests were
concerned, but so well disciplined as never to take part against
them. At one time lie found in one Vizier " the pilot that
weathered the storm," and when another Vizier came in, who,
without setting himself directly against the question of Greek
emancipation, appeared surrounded with all the scourings
of the mosques; whenever the measure was irtroduced. he
found in him the same great qualities which he had admired
in his predecessor. So great was his success, and so excellent
his contrivance, that it was said no measure of the' kind was
likely to be proposed again in the Divan. Such were the
scenes which took
,place in this detestable Divan of bigots—
If it was the wish of the British Parliainent to do like.
wise, their policy, like that of the Sultan, should be to get
together a divided Divan. Succeeding in that, they might
calculate with security on producing the same consequences.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN expressed his concurrence
in what had fallen from his Noble Friend who had so ably dis-
cussed the general topics of the Speech, and thought that an
eloquence far inferior to that which bad been displayed, would
have been sufficient to procure a ready assent from the House
to • the admission of comparative prosperity, and above all, a
ready assent to that part of the Speech which regarded that most
important measure of foreign policy—he meant the recognition
of the independent states of South America. He had long
thought that it was to that quarter of the world this country
was most interested in looking forward, with a view to the im-
provement of her commercial affairs. But that was not all. He
was the last person who would recommend that any step should
r be taken merely for the sake of a lucrative object, inconsistent
with the principlepf what was due to this country and to other
. states. Ae he saw nothing at the present moment to render
`this a more favourable time for the adoption of the measure
awn 'some years-ago, he inferred that it was done upon prin-
ciple merely, that principle working its way by its own strength ;
and he was glad to find that no treaty was alluded to, nor any
expression made use of which could interfere with the impres. '
sion. lie also felt great pleasure in reflecting that this country,
without recognizing the existing Government as democratical
or aristocratic, had recogniked the right of nations to choose
their own Government. Such a conduct formed an honourable
distinction between the policy of this country, and that which
the nations of the continent acted upon in the same case ; and
when contrasted with the course pursued by many of the great
nations of Europe entitled the promoters of it to the appro-
bation of the country. With respect to the contemplated
addition of fifteen or twenty thousand men to our military
establishment, he knew not whether the state of the war in the
Burmese territory was supposed to require it; he thought,
however, that it was a subject which called for a direct commu-
nication to that House as soon as circumstances would permit.
They saw that in a time of comparatively general prosperity—
when commerce and agriculture, by being beneficially ex-
tended, had produced a degree- of contentment hardly known
before; when, therefore, had these causes alone been sufficient,
perfect mid permanent tranquillity might almost necessarily
have been expected ; yet, that circumstance indicated, that
Ministers thought a particular measure necessary to destroy
those dangers, with which they were, or thought themselves
menaced. All lie should say on that subject (though not ne-
cessarily connected with the questions now before: the )louse,
yet in some measure relating to it) was, that he had only to
implore their Lordships, not to think.that by removing some
of the external symptoms, they had removed the cause of that
irritation which now existed in Ireland. Hetrusted, they would
not think that, with respect to five or six millions of people,
who formed by far the greater portion of the inhabitants of that
country, and who, by their religious opinions, were divided
from the rest of their countrymen, and especially from those
who principally governed them, and who, on that account,
were placed in a situation so materially different from that in
which any other nation had ever been placed, he trusted, he
said, most sincerely, that with respect to such people, so situated,
their Lordships would not think, that by doing something to a
part of the head they had efl'ected a cure of an evil which ran
through the whole body. Such meastues might destroy one
symptom, but so sure as they did, another would arise, and
they would not be in the least benefiting the country, while,
on the other hand, they would be pursuing a system which
would affect the prosperity of that country, and unnerve the
vigour of this.. On any measure that might hereafter be
proposed to Parliament, he should fully give his opinion;
but he thought it right at the outset to say, that he wished
public opinion to operate upon every man, not by the means of
secret communication, but of open discussion, and if the mea-
sure which he believed would be proposed should- be found
available for the purpose of keeping secret the communica-
tion of circumstances, which among a distressed people would
naturally arise, he should still feel inclined to hesitate before
he adopted it. In fact, he had rather that public opinion
should flow through certain open and recognised channels,
than that its current should be in the dark, where it would
be impossible to trace its course, or to follow its direction.
It was not in outward and visible signs of discontent, that,
persons situated as he had described, could be in any way
dreadful to the State. It was not secret freemasonry that was
to be dreaded—the freemasonry they had to dread, was that
created by their own statutes, which prevented men from meet-
ing to speak of those grievances which they felt, and from giv-
ing utterance to those feelings which they in their situation ex-
cited. He should now conclude with the reservation he had
already stated, as to speaking on any subject that might here-
after be proposed, anti especially with reference to any evils that
might be said to arise from a subject that had been but slightly
adverted to by the Noble Viscount who seconded the motion ;
for when that Noble Viscount had spoken of the objects of the
Catholic Rent, lie had not stated what objects they were.—lle
(Lord Lansdown) only now wished to say, that he should be
prepared to meet every measure in discussion, and to adopt any
that might seem to him to be beneficial in its tendency, provid-
ed only it went to the root of the evil.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that he should not have
addressed any observations whatever- to the House but for
some of the statements made by the Noble Lord who had just .
taken his seat. On these he certainly did feel much disposed
to make a few remarks. When a spirit of general satisfaction
seemed to pervade the country, and when the Noble Lord
himself appeared to join in it, and admitted that it had in-
creased in prosperity, no.difference of opinion existed between
them. After the eloquent description that had been given to-
night of the state of the people of this country, he should not
weaken its effect by attempting to say any thing upon that sub-
ject, but he could not pass one topic relating to it upon which
he peculiarly congratulated himself, and that was, that after all
the difficulties arising from the war we had so long been carry-
ing on ; after all. the difficulties attendant upon that war, even
since peace had been concluded, which were scarcely less or
'fewer-than those encountered irethe war e Parliament had been
able to do what but few men supposed thenecapaisle of effect-

ing. Few men had imagined that, in Spite of the burden laid
upon this country, Parliament would ever have been able to
maintain the public credit while they returned to cash pay-
ments. A great clamour had been raised—opinions had been
expressed—discussions had been excited by the press—they
had been called upon to reduce the burdens of the people,
which were indeed heavy, but the reduction of which they
could not then consent to authorise. If they had shewn
firmness in war, they had done so in peace, and they ,hdd
returned to a metallic currency, without violating any of
those engagements they had made without the public cre-
ditor. He would not deny that the task was difficult, nay, that
it was one of Herculean labour, but it had been accomplished,
and the credit of the country remained undiminished. This
being the state of the country, the Ministry had the satisfaction
of beginning the reduction of the popular burdens. They had
commenced by relieving the people from the restrictions
that had been imposed upon commerce. He trusted that the
House would give him credit for having been opposed to
these restrictions on principle. lie had always advocated the
principles of a free trade, and he was happy when an op-
portunity was presented for carrying those principles into
practice. Be wished now to make a few observations upon
the subject of the South American States. It had often been
said, since the present measures had been adopted with re-
spect to those States, that these measures might have been
adopted at an earlier period. Now, he thought he could
satisfactorily shew that such an opinion was unfounded.—
These measures Were important, not to this country alone, but
the world at large; and the question respecting them was,
not simply whether their ports should be open to the commerce
of Great Britain, but, whether they should or should not be in-
terdicted from any intercourse with the rest of the nations of
the earth ? In fact, in his opinion, the question was equally
important to this country and to the whole world. On such
a question he felt that he, holding the situation lie did in the
Government of this country, should not have been justified
had his opinion been founded on the question of commercial ad-
vantages alone. He had before expressed his sentiments on the
subject of Parliament acting as a Judge in such a case between
the two opposing parties. He had told them that they, had no
right to set themselves up in such a situation, and to sit in
judgment between the mother country and her colonies ; that
they were not to be sop posed to know that the South American
States were not actually free. His Noble Friend who had
moved the Address bad referred to the opposite opinion. He
'knew that some persons thought, that when a country was in-
vaded, Parliament had a right to discuss the merits of that in-
vasion, and to sit in judgment upon the propriety of the con-
duct of one or both of the parties. Now he thought, that if
this principle was admitted, it was as strong on one side as on
another; and he had always maintained it as his opinion,
that they could not sit in judgment, either on one or the
other, without it was absolutely necessary for their
safety. The real questions for them were, whether
any considerable contest was being carried on between
the mother country and the colonies ? Whether in the latter
there was to be found any strong party in favour of the mother
country, or whether that party was not completely insignificant,
even if it had any existence ? and whether there was any
hope of reconciliation between the two countries? If there
was, then he should oppose any interference on. the part of a
third state. What were the circumstances upon which their
rights of interference were founded ? Not upon their own in-
rests alone, but on their interests as connected with those of
the world at large. He had no hesitation in saying, that when
peace had been restored to Europe, this country had offered her
mediation, which, however, leaf been declined—and he might
add, that he hail now reason to know that these Colonies would
have been secured to Spain, had she listened to that offer of
mediation. Secured not certainly in their old state of bondage,
but by an honourable though dependent union. Such being
the case, it became the duty of this Government, with refe-
rence to her own interests, to look for that time when no real
or considerable contest was going on—when there was no rea-
sonable hope of mediation—and when circumstances taught the
Mother Country herself to despair of the existence of any
strong party in the Colonies inclined favourably towards her.
The first State which had taken decisive means to separate her-
self from the Mother Country was that of Rio de la Plata.
When that separation could he effected, of course the first thing
that would take place between this country and that would be
an exchange of Ministers. The Colony was at that time negu-
ciating a treaty, by which she was to be delivered from the
Spanish armies. Colombia was the next State to which he
should udVert. At the commencement of last year, Co-
lombia was in a state to have mantained relations with fo-
reign powers, but it entered into an engagement with ano-
ther State, by which it became bound to undertake a .war
against a third, where the influence of Spain still existed in
considerable force, and therefore this country, acting on the
principles he had mentioned, had felt that it was not only the
most natural but the most prudent course to adopt, to wait and
know what was to be dote, before it adopted any final step with
regard to that state. As to Mexico, that stood in a different si-
tuation, in one which in some measure required the same delay.
The Government of that State had formerly been possessed by
a man who, after losing his authority there, had visited this
country. From hence he sailed to Mexico, with the hope of
re-establishing the authority he had lost. While the success
of his attempt was yet undetermined, this country could take
no measures for the immediate recognition of that State. An-
other reason for the delay of that proceeding was, that in 111 ex-
- no regular Government bad been at that time formed. The
doubts of this country, however, had been finally determined,
by the capture of the individual to whom he had alluded;' and
by the establishment of a regular Government. He had thought
it necessary thus to state the principles upon, which this coun-
try had acted, from which, he thought, it would clearly ap-
pear, that the recognition of these States had only been de-
layed, while that delay was rendered obsolutely necessary by
existing circumstances, but that when these circumstances had
ceased to operate, the recognition had instantly been made. He
should now take the liberty of referring to two parts of the No-
ble Lord' speech, not closely connected with each other in the
order of delivery, but referring to the same point.. He meant to
those which related to the increase of the military establishment •i
of this country. On that subject, he trusted, the Noble Lord
would take nothing for granted till it had been discussed and
proved, but that he would wait till he received such inform.
ation as the Government could give. He could assure the
House, that it was not the fault of the Government that on
this subject no information had as yet been afforded. The
Papers wou!d soon be produced, relating both to the origin
and circumstances of the war ; and if, when produced,
they did not appear sufficient for all the purposes of the
information required, he could assure the House that there
was every open and fair disposition on the part of Govern-
ment to give every satisfactory explanation. With respect
to Ireland, he had only to say that, if he did not enter into a
detail of the circumstances, it was because lie did not think it
necessary at this hour of the night. What had been recom-
mended in the Speech from the Throne, and what would come
under their consideration, he should not say was not connected
with the Catholic question, for Noble Lords could make any
thing. relating to Ireland connected with that queition, but it
certainly did not immediately grow out of it in any way in which
it was now proposed. The Catholic Association he considered
to be an invasion of the law, and to have been Undertaken by
those who said that whatever laws might be made, they would
do their utmost to evade or to defeat them. They objected
to the Convention Law, let it be proposed in any shape what-
ever—but it was for Parliament to say whetheir their ojections
should be considered sufficient. It was for Parliament to say
whether, looking at that Association, it could be considered
either compatible with the Constitution of Ireland, or con-
sistent with the safety of that country. If he were a-Catholic
Advocate, the first thing he would do would be to put down
that Convention, and lithe Catholic Question was to be carried,
he would have it carried on its own merits alone. He denied,
on his part, any wish to interfere with the right of the people to
petition the Parliament, to discuss and lay before the Govern-
ment the grievances of which they complained. He said this not
with reference to Parliament alone, but to the nation at large.
There were abuses with respect to Ireland, which had in some
measure been mitigated since the last Session. The House
might rememher the opinions he had then expressed. It had
been attempted to connect those abuses with the Catholic Ques-
tion, with which, however, they were not necessarily nor pro-
perly to be connected ; and he had therefore refused to consider
them as relating to each other. He felt that Parliament owed
it to the peace and prosperity of Ireland, to take some measures
to put down any convention in that country. What, he would
ask, had prevented Ireland from being equal in prosperity to
this country ? England was heavily taxed, while the taxes
drawn from Ireland were comparatively light ; then what could
make the difference between the two ? He answered, it was the
spirit of political and religious dissension existing there. If
that were the case, then he would boldly ask any man whether
any greater bar to the prosperity of a nation could exist than
such a convention as the Catholic Association, which must
keep alive those dissensions that had so materially injured the
country ? For the sake of the peace of Ireland, Parliament were
hound to look to this Association ; and in order to bring some-.
thing definite before the House, he now gave notice that lie
should shortly move for a Committee to inquire into the pre-
sent state of Ireland.
[Some conversation here ensued between the Earl of LIVE R-
POOL and another Noble Lord, across the table. We believe
it related to the proposed motion, but we could not hear the
particulars.]
Lord DaNOUGHMORE said, that nothing could be more
satisfactory than the terms in which the Noble Lord opposite
(Viscount Dudley and Ward) had proposed the Address.—
Every part of it met with his approbation but one—that which
related to the presentsituation of Ireland. It was to him strange-
ly anomalous, to resort tq coercion after indulging in the most
flattering description of the tranquillity and prosperity of the

country. And it was quite true that the wise Measures em-
ployed by Government, and the temper and judiciousness with
which they were administered had restored perfect peace in
Ireland. lie had just come from the seat of Magistracy
there, where he was weekly in the habit of dispensing jus-
tice, and he could bear testimony to the spirit of good order
and obedience to the laws which prevailed. Was it fitting then
that in such a state of things the people should- be coerced ?
' The Catholic Association had been called a Catholic Parlia-
ment and various other names, but in reality the Members of
that Body were merely in the situation in svhich the laws
placed them-.--they were excluded from privileges they had a
right to enjoy. The Catholics had been given _almost every
thing—they had been given the means of being instrumental in
doing mischief, without being able to do good—there had been
given them every possible reason to hate the Constitution, to
hate the country, and to hate the connexion. It was urged
that many objectionable things were said in the Association,
but many things he believed were uttered in that and the other
House of Parliament which bore a similar character. .H e denied,
however, that the Association had done injury ; on the contrary,
it had done good. The upper classes of the Catholics, to his
knowledge, inculcated subordination to the laws, both in private
and in public. The Catholic priests were likewise most active
in the same good work, and the result was, as he observed before,
that tranquillity and prosperity reigned throughout the Island.
This was not his assertion only, they were the words of the King
himself. Could Ministers, who sanctioned the Royal Speech,
say then that enquiry was necessary. No enquiry was needed,
nor did he (Lord Donoughmore) ask any. The Catholic Body
were united together.—( Hear, hear !)—and their cause was just.
One individual had been prosecuted for words which he uttered
at a public Meeting, and which were considered seditious. But
did the Court and the Jury hold that opinion ? Did Ministers
want the Catholics to plot in the dark ? For his part he re-
gretted exceedingly the measure which was in contemplation,
and should resist it to the utmost of his ability.
The Earl of RODEN said, that he would detain' their Lord-
ships but for a few moments, and only upon the subject of a
part of the Empire in which he constandy resided. He differed
from his Noble Friend (Lord Donoughmore) in almost every
word he had heard him express, and he felt a most sincere satis-
faction at the hope held out in the Royal Speech, and corro-
borated in the speech of the Noble Earl (Liverpool), in which
he had declared his intention to propose to their Lordships de-
cisive measures effectually to put down the Catholic Associa-
tion, which was disseminating its poison and venom to the most
distant parts of the Empire. He could bear testimony to the
baneful effects of this Association upon the minds of the Irish
peasantry. It was very easy for Noble Lords in this country,
surrounded by a peasantry tranquil and submissive to the laws,
to speak lightly or theoretically of the state of Ireland • but it
was a very different thing to be every day a witness of the scenes
which proceeded from this Catholic Association through Ire-
land. If ever there was a time when a Protestant Parliament
was called onto shew that it would not be dictated to by
Roman Catholics, that time was the present. When the heads
of this Association were talking to the people of Bolivar, and of
other revolutionary leaders, it was only by decisive measures
that they could make such agitators crouch at their feet ; but
by weak measures, such as the late proceedings in Ireland, the
prosecution of individuals, they would only keep up that agita-
tion which now so unfortunately existed.
Earl CLIFDEN remarked, that he subscribed to the Catho-
lic rent. The existence of the Associations was considered
dangerous by some, and it was asked by others for what pur-
pose the rent was applied ? It was in the minds of many a seri-
ous thing. He would give an answer. Part of the money was
expended in paying former debts, and he understood it was
the intention of the Association to employ Counsel to be
heard at the Bar of either one or both Houses of Parliament in
favour of their claims. With respect to the abuse and odium
which had been heaped upon this body of the people, he meant
those who had formed themselves into Associations, by the
English press—in the John Bill Newspaper for instance—this
abuse and vilification were trivial compared with what the Irish
press put forth. He would now just advert to another subject,
the visit of his Majesty to Ireland, which took place about three
years ago ; and did it produce those good effects which it was
warmly intended it would produce ? If it were the intention
of Government to put down those Societies, did they mean
to leave the Orange Associations undisturbed ? He was per-
suaded that the Catholic Associations were beneficial—they had
certainly great expences to encounter—they established schools,
and were otherwise serviceable to the poor. Were not these
sufficient to excite admiration ?—were not these lawful motives
for voluntary subscriptions ? Could such measures really be for
a moment imagined to be injurious to the country ? The
Noble Earl alluded to the Proclamation issued by his Majesty,
on the 13th of Dec. 1824, respecting his Hanoverian subjects,
by which his people were not disabled from civil and political
rights,- whatever might be their religious opinions. He (Earl
Clifton) was anxious to see the same principle extended to the
people of Ireland. The Catholic Associations of the latter
country, he would assert, had done more towards allaying vio-
lence titan any Body which heretofore existed. He should hail
with pleasure any system by which the poor of Ireland might
be benefitted ; and he was of opinion that the Catholic Associa-
tions had effected considerable good to the country.
The Address was then read and agreed to.
NEW SPECULATING COMPANIES. _ _

The LORD CHANCELLOR remarked, that at the close
of the last Session he had alluded to a Bill which it was his in-
tention to introduce this Session, and he took this early oppor-
tunity of redeeming his pledge. The Bill was intended to effect
those Joint-stock Companies, many of which were of a mis-
chievous nature, and many were not yet formed, nor perhaps
ever would be formed. The shares of several Companies had
been disposed of with advantage to the promoters, and with pro-
bable losses to the purchasers. His intention was to endeavour
to check that sort of proceedings ; and he thought it his duty to
give notice of such intention the first day of Parliament. The
Noble Lord was undertood to say, that his Bill would make
those parties liable to the extent of their shares, or the interest
they might have derived frtim their shares; and with respect to
those Companies which had not been already formed, his Lord-
ship remarked, that the operation of the Bill would commence
on the first day of the Session. lie mentioned this, in order
that there might not be a ground of complaint. With regard
to those Companies which had been legally formed, he should
leave them to the operatLn of the law as it now stood.
SCOTCH JUDICATURE BILL.

- -
The Earl of LAUDERDALE was of opinion that, inas-
much as many alterations had been made in the Scotch Judi-
cature Bill, the Committee had better be revived, and _re-mo-
del it betbre it was again presented to the House.
The usual oaths were taken by the different Officers, and
the House adjourned at a Quarter before Nine o'Clock till.
Monday.