The Sun.
London, England, 1822-05-07 00:00:00

PRICE SnytNPENcr,-.

that nothing hi the kind could- fairly be inferred frein'that
circunistancee- How it Was pesible to suppose the brewers'
iu"qtiestion use any influence- they Might- poSSess
with the Nla,istrates but for their own benefit, and he'
most positively deni'ed that there was any agree:merit,'
•verbal ,or written,- legal or otherwise,__ with respect: to
BroWn's' house, which was in every respect a tree hens;. That
person was no more confined to the house of Nlessis. Truman.
and Co„ than he was to that of his baker: While the one
supplied his with good beer, and the other with good bread,
it was probable that the connection would continue ; but he-
lms not in. the remotest degree bound to his -brekiree ankluore
than he was to his baker. The Petitioner stated; :that was •
so disheartened at finding on what an iniquitkis syStem theill a-
gistrates acted; that he sold his house in ,dismay. What then •
did he •do ? Why, he built two more public-houses. This
-was rather extraordinary. One of these was in the same strut •
with Brown's, and kit two hundred yards distant, and'Was -
petitioned against by BrOwn ;• the other was but sa hundied. and •
sixty yards distant troin the first public-house. -None of these
'objections applied to the house which had subsequently been
licensed. 'lt was tot in the same street, and it was 31;0 yardS' •
distant from Brown's house. Under such circumstances, he
would teetidently ask the Right Bon: Gentleman whether he
Would, no! hay e••acted.as•the agstrates did ? The licence et-
the second home was said to liaV been granted on itsl.)eckh-
ing the property of Messrs. Truman each Co. This ,he -denied
altogether. ' fie now came to the question of the Right Hon.
Gentleman. He begged to recall the circumstances under -.
which this subject had been previously mentioned in that
house. In the first instance ha had no cbthrounication with
the other brewers on the subject, and desired to have an op-
portunity of speaking with them. When the subject 'was
next mentioned, he had announced that when the stock' in hand
which' had paid the full duty had been consumed; --the price
would be-lowered. Having given this pledge, he had he* to
state that it had been-redeemed, and that the price of beer had -
.alreadylalletr.
HoW much,?" was asked by an Hon. Member on the
Opposition 'side of the 11 ouse.l
Mr. BUXTON said he knew Government wished-the pride '
to be lowered one halfpenny,- though not qnite one farthing per -
quart had been taken off by the repeal of the duty. This had,
however, been done,- and the price was loWered by one half-
penny in the quart. Much was said of the number of houses
purchased by brewers, and many erroneous ideas were abroad'
.on this subject. lie would state how the case was, so far as he,
was concerned. lie served 766 persons with beer, of whom'
105 were in the country. Of these 49 occupied houses belong-
ing-to him, 22 were consigned to him for loans, and the re
-minder were free. He did not mean to that loans had
not been advanced to the holders of some of them ; but they
were nevertheless independent. To prove what his -feelings
were on this subject,,he referred to-the part he-had taken on a
former occasion, and to a restrictive clause Which he had aug-.
gested to prevent any brewer from leasing or purchasing a.
public-house. On the strength-of beer now he Wished to say one
word. An Hon. Member had said he should be satisfied if the
strength of beer were restored to what it was 'formerly. He
(N. r. Buxton) had inquired into this, and found that beer was 2b.
per cent. stronger than it was 20 years ago. His authothy for •
-stating this' was the Excise, to which he referred those who -
Might doubt the accuracy of his statement. The number ef
free houses was at present so great that there was as much
competition in the brewing business as in any' other trade. For
those who dealt so harshly with the brewers, he • only wished' -•
that they would meet them not with calculations in that House,
but with competition out of it, and nothing would give him
more pleasure than to see die Right Hon., Gentleman (Mr.- •
Huskisson) with all his great talents (if he could so far con-
descend), • enter into a fair and tradesmanlike competition with
the Brewers•

Mr: C. CALVERT considered the present licensing Systetti
to 'be defective in many respects, especially in the country.
Something ought to be done to correct the evils as great abuses
took place,under it,- of which, ,if it were necessary, he could
adduce one hundred instances in a week.

Sir J. SEPRIGIIT thought the present produced the worst
effects. The country generally complained of it, and, in his
opinion, justly.
Mr. KENNET pointed put the defects of the present system,'
which enabled the brewers in the country to drench the people•
with vile poison. He had been round to some of the houses
and tasted the beer himself, and had found it such huff that he
wondered -how it - could be drank at all. lie was of opinion
that the evil could only be remedied by permitting • beer to be
sold as freely as bread. From doing this there were no -just
grounds to tear that drunkenness *mild increase, as that vier
was not found mast prevalent in wine Countries, where some
could be purchased at almost every house. He wished eery
•one to beallowed to'sell beer, but he did not wish every one to.
be allowed to keep a public house. The law forbade persons
to tipple in pullic-houses; but:the Magistrates, the wise men
of Gotham, required that those who sold beer should have
benches, tables, pipes, and newsptpers, to induce the poorer
classes to drink more than • they would otherwise take. Were
beer freely sold as he proposed,.as bread or as i,ugar was at Ire-
sent, he was confident that it would benefit th4ublic,- without
at all injuring the Revenue. Some. loss might be sustained
from such a change ; btu it was the duty of that -House to look
to the general interest of the country—to look at the efiCct of
such a measure in gross, and not in detail. Ile, for one, would
go the length of giving compensation to those who might suf-
fer from the change, rather than consent to the continuance of
a system which he considered to, be equally injurious to. the
health and to the morals of the people. ,
Mr. CALVEILT and Mr. G. BENNET mutually.explained.
Mr. WHITBREAD perfectly agreed with what had fallen
from the Hon. 'Ai ember for 14"eymoutit, and was happy that he
had, met an opportunity of .correcting an erroneous impression.
The present system, he contended, did not-give a monopoly
to brewers. Ile protested against the lietnsidg of persons in..
stead of .houseS,,for such an alteration most involve thousands
in ruin. He intreated the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury dot to
think of legislating upon the. subject, without directing L's
attention to the regulations lately entered into, for licensing
houses.
.

lr. C. SMITH 'made a few observations, "which were not
audible.

Mr. MONO( was of opinion that ir they would prevent th
monopoly of brewers, they must place the licensing system upon
the same footing as that observed in licensing other trades. To
do this they. must diminish' the power vested in Magistrates.
He had received a letter from a medical gentle Man of eminence,
whom he had long. known; residing at Bath; who stated that a
large proportion of his patients were rendered ill by the delete-
rious ingredients' emp?oyed. by the brewers, which gave thers
cholics and other complaints,-,(A laugh.)
'Mr. F. BUXTON said, as it might be considered that in re-
moving blame from their own house, he had cast it upon others,
he felt it to be an act of duty in him to state that the proposi
tion for prohibiting. brewers from purchasing' public-houseS.,
originated with- a very respectable Gentleman, formerly a
Member of that 1-1 ouse (Mr: Barclay.)
The Petition was then brought up and read. It came from •
an individual named Robert .Churchall.

Mr. HLTSKISSON wished to repeat thot he knew nothing
of the Petitioner; nor of the local situations of-the houses. .
After a few words from Mr. C. SivIITIT, the Pedticn was
ordered to be printed, •.