The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-16 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 16, 1849.

mond) felt glad that it was passed, despite the opposi-
tion of those men. In that Bill there are said to be
some clauses of a doubtful character, through which, as
a pretext, those men wish to get rid of the Bill ; but he
hoped that Parliament would resolutely and vigorously
oppose them, by standing up for the rights of the people.
He asked was there such a loss of all truth at Downing-
street, that a Member of her Majesty's Government
could say that he did not think that agricultural dis-
tress was not more prevalent now than at the time of the
passing of the corn laws. He would only call their
Lordships' attention to the state of Manchester, and the
House would be able to see the condition of the agricul-
tural districts. One of the firms of that town specify
in a circular that there has been a considerable draw-
back in their establishment arising from a want
of trade with the rural districts, which trade before
the passing of the corn-laws formed a very
important items in their business. This went to show
that this decline in the country trade arises from the
low price of agricultural produce and bad harvests ; but
he evidently knew that it was owing to the repeal of the
corn laws. He firmly believed that the present agricul-
tural distress being so great, served as a cause that there
were meny of the landlords in this country who had
their farms on their own hands, as the farmers dreaded
to risk the responsibility of taking them, through the low
price given for their produce. And he asked was it wive,
just, or expedient for their Lordships to turn a deaf ear
to the requests of those loyal people—the farmers of
England? He had been authentically informed that the
general opinion of the farmers was, that if Parliament
would not relieve them by some measure of protection,
that they would be before a few years totally swept
away from their holdings ; and he, in common with
many of their Lordships, would have to regret, aid
regret deeply, too, that this moral, loyal, and
praiseworthy class should be forced to emigrate
to a foreign land ; but, alas ! many hare already
done so, and such should serve as a lesson to the Go-
vernment, as they are men that this country could not
spare. Ile had heard it said that manufacturers would
occupy their places as farmers, but why, he would ask,
should we drive those men who have conferred so much
benefit on the country from it to give their places to
men who are not well known to be equally good orintelli-
gent as agriculturists?—(Hear.) He should next in-
form their Lordships thatmany of those petitions were for
a repeal of the malt tax, which he considered to be un-
just and unfair, particularly as free trade is enjoyed by
one pertion of the community. He hoped that the malt
tax would he swept away altogether, as nothing was
more just than that the *labourer should have his own
home-brewed ale, and the farmer a fair portion of the
produce of his farm, or that he should be obliged,
through the machinery of bad lews, to go to a foreign
country for the food necessary to fatten his cattle.
When it would be considered by their Lordships
diet the farmer was heavily oppressed by the
operation of the corn-laws, which were passed subse-
quently to his taking his farm, and that he would not
after the passing of those laws, be allowed to give up his '
lease, he strongly hoped for the sake of justice and duty,
that Parliament would adopt some means to ameliorate
their wretched condition, for if something was not done
they would resist tithes and every other taxation, and
in this opposition to tithes they would have with them
Mr. Bright and such men as hate the Established
Church, and then was the danger of the Church to be
apprehended by the union of those different parties.
When he saw that the mill-contractors and the malesters
of this country were going to foreign markets, and leav-
ing their own farmers neglected at home, he did not think
that much good could be foreboded for the agricultural
interest. When he know what influence had been ex-
ercised about London to induce persons not to vote against
the Government lest they should be thrown out, he should
say that
measures were not generally by detail, but that
many went to vote irrespective of the measures to be
discussed, and that thus the farmers of England were in
the plight that they now were, and for that reason he
wished that the present Government were out of ollice—
(Hear, hear)—as he was assured that there would he
easily found 16 or 18 persons who would di: ect the helm
of the State better than the present Ministry. Yet he
should say that, for his own part, he would take no part
in any Administration whatever, and it was because of
that resolve that he freely and frankly expressed his
wish. With regard to Ireland, he should say that free
trade had taken away her produce without making her
any return, and that it is under the name of that mea-
sure that she is prevented from growing tobacco. lie
strongly recommended the Government not to persecute
the farmer class too far, for nature and necessity would
force him, when he saw nothing for himself, his wife,
and children, but the workhouse, to have recourse to
means which their Lordships would deplore. He there-
fore implored then not to make such a rash experiment
for tenants and labourers are already sulLring too much
idling about their respective villages, and herding in
twenties and thirties at an age when vice and danger are
to be apprehended. lie insisted that no English agri-
cultural labourer should be without employment and a
livelihood, while foreigners were drawing it from the
vitals of this country.—(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said that he deeply de-
plored the condition of the tenant farmers and yeomanry
in the county in which he was born and had spent his
life, for if misery and destitution were to be sought after
iu comparison to their former independence and happi-
ness, it was there to be found in consequence of the corn
laws and other equally oppressive laws on the farmers
and labourers of England. He was astonished that the
Government did not arouse from their apathy and look
around, and examine into the condition of those people
remarkable for theirmorality and theirloyalty—men who
were ever found to be the staff and stay of this empire in
the time of danger.—(Hear.) When he knew the im-
mense quantity of corn that was being imported into
this country, and other parts of Europe, from America,
he had no hope for the British farmer but in some pro-
tective duties, and therefore he hoped that their Lord-
ships would duly consider for the farmers' future fortune.
He would implore their Lordships, if they had done
wrong, either advisedly or by mistake—if the step they
had taken, by the destruction of all protection, to retrace
their steps immediately, and to give to the agricultural
population of the country, now fast increasing, the fair
treatment which they deserved in common with other
classes of the community.
The Duke of RICHMOND said he would now put
the question he intended to ask the Government, viz.,
bether they had recently considered the subject of agri-
cultural distress, and intended to introduce a measure to
relieve it?

Earl GREY said he certainly thought that this was
not a time at which they could conveniently discuss so
large a question as that of free trade, more especially as
there was no motion before the House upon which it
might arise. But he could not allow the speech of the
Noble AIL() opposite, and that of the Noble Earl who
follow ed him, to pass by without assuring them that her
Majesty's Government were very sensible of the distress
now prevailing in agricultural districts, especially in the
south of England, and that they deeply deplored it, but
at the same time they had to add that they were not pre.
pared with any measure of relief. This was not the first
time they had had complaints on this subject; and if his
Noble Friend opposite contended that the mere fact of
agricultural distress was to bo taken as conclusive evi-
dence of the failure of the free-trade system, he must re-
mind them that the very same complaints were made
when tha system of protective duties prevailed.—(Hear,
hoar.) He had had the curiosity to ascertain from the
journals of both Houses of Parliament the number of
years in which these complaints were made, and the sub-
ject fell under the consideration of Parliament. The
corn laws passed in the year 1815, and in the next year
there were various complaints to Parliament of the pre-
valence of agricultural distress. Those complaints had
been repeated every year, with but few interruptions,
down to the present time, viz., in the years 1817, 1819,
1820, 1821, 1822, 1823, 1824, 1830, 1831, 1833,
1834, 1835, down to 1846, so that of the thirty years
during which protection prevailed as the corn-law, strong
complaints were made in fourteen of them. He found,
also, that the subject was mentioned on three occasions in
Sing's speeches, and that in six different years Com-
mittees of one or other House sat upon the question.
When they were told, therefore, that the distress arose
alone from the operation of free-trade principles, that
was the answer he had to give to the assertion.—(Hear,
hear.) There was nothing at present that could at all
encourage his Noble Friend opposite to look to a return
:o i,he system of protective duties. The cause of distress
seemed to him rather to arise out of the bad harvests
which had of late years occurred, and when the Noble
Duke said that maltsters would not buy English
barley in preference to foreign, he thought it was
directly contrary to the fact. On the other hand, he
thought they were much indebted to the operation of
the Act of 1846 for obtaining a large supply of food, by
the help of which they were able to avert a calamity,
the consequences of which must have been serious.—
(Hear, hear.) It was now, he thought, far too late to
repeal that measure, when it had occasioned such ex-
tensive preparations on the continent for the production
of food. The Noble Duke had adverted also to the
rent charge as a burden on farms, Upon that point,
he could say he believed that most proprietors let their
farms tithe free. He for one did so, and it was ob-
viously the most expedient plan to adopt, because if a
tenant left his rent charge in arrear, and became insol-
vent, the landlord was immediately liable to make it
good. With regard to the repeal of the malt tax, he
thought that farmers, of all classes of the community,
had the least interest in it; for it had been
ascertained by experiments upon it, which well
ertablished the inference, that it was not a species
of food which, were the duty taken off to-morrow,
any one would buy. A tax in itself was certainly not a
desirable thing, but be believed that in the whole circle
of their taxation, there was none which was attended
with so small an amount of inconvenience as the malt-
tax. So with respect to tobacco. Tobacco was a plant
of a very exhausting nature, by no means likely to be
eitl'ivatetl profitably in England ; but if there was any
chance of entering into a competition with foreign coun-
tries in growing it, then there would not be the slightest
objection to adopt, in this instance, the
ie relaxation ap-
plied to sugar, of allowing it to grow this country
subject to the same amount of duty as that coming from
abroad. The fact alleged with respect to the difficulty
experienced by farmers in selling or letting their farms,
was, he believed, utterly without foundation. Of this
he had had several instances within his own experience.

In one of these, a farmer went to a Noble Friend

of his, holding large estates in Bedfordshire, and ex-
pressed his wish to give up the farm he held of
him. His Noble Friend, surprised the gentleman by
giving him an opportunity of returning the farm, but
the latter asked time to consider, and ultimately declined
to press his application.—(Hear and laughter.) The
Scotch newspapers contained a great number of in-
stances in which leases of farms had been renewed at

--------
equzi and higher rents.—(Several Noble Lords on the
Opposition side of the House here took occasion to in-
form the Noble Earl that that was not the case on their

estates—which produced much laughter.) The panic,
however, did not prevail in many parts of the country;
and in general he thought that the progress of agricul-
tural improvement wci3 highly 'satisfactory, In travel-

ling by railway recently, from Northumberland to Lon-
don, he had been much pleased to find a great number
of draining tiles placed along both sides of the line, in
greater numbers than had been remarked before, which
tie considered an evident sign of improvement, and of
enterprising activity. had only now to repeat, that
together with his colleagues, he was aware of the dis-
tre,s now prevailing in agricultural counties; that he
deeply depleted it, but that at the sune time, looking at
the result of the proceedings in Parliament in termer
years, his firm conviction was that any one of those
measures which might be attempted, in the vain hope of
relieving this distress, since it arose from causes placed
beyond the reach of the Legislature, would certainly

gratioe.—(Hear, hear) The class he sought to benefit
were ji st those who could not help themselves. It Was
said that the natural resources of Ireland were
so go at that they might r pport treble the
present population.—(Hear, hear.) He did I":
think that question bore upon the profitable employmen"
ef those who could not obtain it at home. UndoubtedlY
the resources of Ireland were great, but what was their
value if the means of developing them were wanting
The other day the Under. Secretary of State seemed to
intimate that the Irish were bad emigrants. Now the
evidence adduced before the Emigration Commission.
tended to show that the Irish were adapted for works of
great strength, that they were excellent workers
when they had it to do, and that they did not setie'
assist:. race when they could obtain labour. Pi)
thought it, therefore, most injudicious and unjust te
cast aspersions upon people who were willing to " Si
a fair day's labour for a fair day's wage" when;
ever or wherever they couid get it.—(Bear')
There was not the least doubt that the United ,States
ready to receive and avail themselves of any
amount of labour which could be sent out front Ire.
land. Mr. Mackay, in his able work upon the Wes.
tern World, said that if half a million of Esra•
peen emigrants were to go to America, 81,
were well distributed, that they would find a ready
demand for their labour in the States. In fact to%
country was in a position to absorb almost any amen
%
of labour. He presumed, from the information whit
had just been received from Canada, that there wa,s little
chance of the colony being in a position this Year
to give employment to any large numbers of eneigraluft
but there could be no doubt that many great pubill
works might be undertaken in Canada, which would
give employment to thousands, and nvbie"r
upon their completion, would pay an ample' Pe'„hi
.
tentage. There was the Quebec and n ahfsfa
Railway, and also the extension of the Erie Canal
which he thought ought to be undertaken by th a tla;
vernment. If Canada were annexed to the United. State
such a great national work as the Erie Canal wt/731d lled
commenced in less than five years, because it • woe
afford a channel of transit for the profits ode!)
of that vast and enormous tract of coons
To turn to another colony—that of Southern Africa.
was divided into two parts, and one part contain ed a
much fertile land as Scotland, producing in great
abundance Indian corn anti excellent c otteo;e!
1,700,000 bales of cotton had been growa '-
Southern Africa in one year, and in An )at $
condition would this country be by the failure of diet sr',
title in any one year ? One-half of our expo its ;
d
1,"
cotton goods came from Southern Africa and evert
Hon. Member, especially the Hon. Membars for
West Riding of Yorkshire and Lancashire, would •seo the
importance of cultivating that article in Southern .Africs'
And now he came to consider the means which, it ec,,
curred to him, might be adopted to promote eneagratie:
from Ireland. lie should take the liberty of su&testiZt
two means. In the first place, he would eagg`,",
that greater powers and facilities should be con
ferred upon the guardians for raising "tones
to promote emigration. Power ought to be c teen;
upon the boards of guardians to raise the money 111%
the security of the rates, the money to be n ?paid 1)
periods of five, six, and seven years.—(Hear,
That was one measure. The other . was IP con
oi
fer a similar power on the landowne rs
4:0
Ireland, who would be glad to borrow money up 001:0
security of their lands to enable their unprod act
tenants to emigrate.—(Hear, hear.) The money to 1.-4
advanced in this way might be raised by Governece'i
on Irish Consols. The loan would be for the honef it
tills
for and, of course, Ireland ought to be respont e
for its repayment.—(Hear, hear.) Without some 141„°,
measure as that, there was no hope for capital 1)0'4
attracted ; and he shouli leave it in the hat As
Government and the House, trusting that tile;
would lose no time in adopting his suggc salons'
and put an end to the plague that at
paralysed the energies of the Irish people.— (tie";
hear.) Repeated had been the proposals for Pr-,,
motiug emigration from Ireland, and it was to he re
gretted that some of them had not been adopted before
this.—(Hear.) He hoped no one dreamt of the co, ttliP ii ,"
of Ireland ultimately- being reformed by . sr.ror;
i
and death, since such a feeling and such a pot
was far mote creel than the practice of the Cite
who sacrificed their children to keep down the pt
lation.—(Hear, hear.) Without troubling the Et gins
any further, he would conclude with moving
address to the Crown for the productien of two
papers in the possession of her Majesty's Governs te..,
relative to Irish emigration to the North Amer
colonies.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. W. FIT: PATRICK seconded the motion e
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL moved as an amench
to substitute for that motion the following :.—" !
emigration is, at best, a partial, tardy, and most eat Pere
sive remedy for the evils of Ireland; and that it is Ocu
immediately necessary at present to endeavour to e 5° is
the disastrous emigration of the farmers and small :01),;
talists of that country, by giving them security age
wanton ejectment, arid loss of the fruits of their ind, 0,7 and enterpriza, rather than to stimulate their d ,par',
tare, or that of the labourers who would be employ ,dose
them if such security were given, But that tho Tn
immediate and pressing object for this House to e°l3-id
der is the frightful progress of starvation, disease and
in lreland; the total insufficiency of local sneg 4
as well as of any assistance now afforded by the S tate in,
arrest that progress, and the urgent necessity that exist°
for additional contributions from the State to say a has.
dreds of thousands from perishing, and whole o mind°
from being depopulated. That therefore this House
do forthwith resolve itself into a Committee t ;o
Sider of further advances for the relief of dist; ress u'
Ireland." Ho did not agree with the Hon. Member s 8
to the benefits of emigration, if it could be accomp fished;,
But the practical question to come to was, Mac re /ve
the money to come from? Would the cost of emi gran.
end with the charges attendant upon their remov if tlid
new soil? The Hun. Member had not stated the a ut°'eo
of the Irish people that it would be necessary to eranto
to effect this benefit. What number did ho me 03 of
take? Then the next question would be, the e Ds' yo
removing each individual, and then the cost of r ece°„
ing and locating the whole. And, having once onceh
tamed that, the next inquiry would be whale (I'LL
money could not be better spent at home.
1d to it down as a maxim that the more you did for ' 8;1;0,
individuals the less they would rely upon ahem seave
wen,
now the public works iu Ireland. Remittance 'a vv-ris-
now sent home by Irish emigrants to assist thei c refs
tions to follow them. Let the State once take up
matter, and those remittances would instantly stof
sides, the poor peasantry were not in a conditie Ito
removed from their own country. Their physical a rate.
was completely gone, and in their present conditi 00
th
would be unequal to the exertions that emigratio' a *ono
require. The exertions of the Society of Fri ends
Ireland were known to everybody, and he paid to thew,
his unfeigned tribute of admiration. Nothing (
said too high in praise of their charity, theirbin
and their wisdom too, in aiding the poor Irisi marital
put him in the way of earning a subsistence. He "iy
now stated some objections in detail, tut his got ,eras
jection was that the cost of wholesale emigrati( in w°nld
he enormous. The first thing they ought t( do w-oa
to try to save the resources of the country. The; / wanted
the assistance of that capital which the smaller
farmers would take away with them if 0-"',l
emigrated. The small capitalist must be en uouragee
to spend his means on the soil, and there proper",
came in the first part of his amendment. He a OW can',
to the second part, nod the more important part, bas
cause it related to the immediate salvation c
life. Even the Opposition newspapers were now s .chnitLll-,o`
that life was wasting away. The lion. Gentle man 0%
read a portion of the charge of Mr. Sergeant E [owlet'
the Tipperary Grand Jury, descriptiveof the wretch
e
condition, the calamities, and the misery of the in"'
bitants of that locality. The Hon. Gentleman then ref
ferred to documents showing the state of the , west i° 0
Ireland ; 860 deaths had taken place in one week
"-
Ballinasioe workhouse. Persons were found dead nct
the roads and in the fields, famishing people w see font
lying by the wayside with wasted forms, clad in 1'60;
and dying with hunger, and the churchyards in bem:l,
cases were overfilled with the carcasses of
,he des a
The selections he had made were of the slip htest
w
most trivial kind from the mass of materials r .t his
de
puss", and he asked the House what it inttn dad to
de
in such a case? It was evident that Ireland had
a great effort, but it was breaking down u nder t"
pressure ; the tenants were flying from the country
notwithstanding the expenditure of Governrat .nt ; ce
tractors for unions were giving up their c nitrites
rates could not now be collected in sufficient
amounts to preserve life, and how was it possib: to then t°
raise an additional rate for emigration? Note ithstall"G
ing all that they had done, ho did not undery whoa,
the House had done, yet having taken upon itself Ott
burden of the Irish people, and deprived then of till
natural protector, a domestic Parliament, the' a nuust,a
something more. He would not propose the last Ow";
graph of his amendment, which called upon th t° gt
into a Committee forthwith. But this he woul rePea-'
that unless they were prepared to agree in • tkose ac-
cursed doctrines of political economy which Perai°l3e
calling themselves Chartists advanced there a .11d else'
where—they must immediately take into consi dera"r
other and more efficient measures than doles ,t* mete]
by small instalments. They must act prompt"
tide of pauperism was rising higher and era
all classes—it was sweeping away those who al (eW -
in
since were living comfort. Remedial t aeasure',
which it was hoped would be effective in tl e course
of a few years, woold, he feared, be found to be failures'
In the mean time, society would be destroyed. and the
Noble Lord would only find that he had made a desert'
and called it peace. Something must be done to arrest
the downward tendency of all classes, more extensil than any thing yet proposed—and he called upon the
House to go into a Committee for the purose of irarne
diately arresting death and starvation. lie dii I not care
whether the measure he might propose were lot ,ked uP°n
ry
as revolutionary; they were not a whit more rev( dutineene
than those proposed by that great anti-revolts tionist the
Right Honourable Member for Tamworth.l3 0 "id tun..
absentees from Ireland were deserters from tlrein "at
try. They ought to be in Ireland—they ougl eta bend
home, in order to take counsel with the p =opt', a
T:
spend among them whatever rents they ci d ge
was said that property should support po, nerarfd
t Well, then, let them have all the property of In
to
to support its poverty, not a part. In anlelfth 11.,
this measure, let them pass a measure giving see urtsva
to tenant farmers; and also carry out land drainsfi ,to
improvements as auxiliary and secondary measures.
.1-tP4
step which would save much time now wasted in
~uto
[louse, and promote more efficient legislation, won I_7"
to send a Committee of the most eminent and 07.1' 91_,
eneed Members of that House over to Ireland, ir, ci;r u)%
that they might s:e for themselves what its squill
ditiornwas, and a practical judgment on the spot. ".1_
House would then be able to legislate with a kuowled
ge
of the nature of the cue. He ended by saying, as be
began, that ho brought forward his ame=ndment in 3I;.
spirit of hostility to the motion of his Lion. Friend,
simply froa a fear that if the motion was carried

`The Earl Of MALNIESBURY said it gave him plea-
sure to hear the Noble Earl admit the distress of the
agricultural community, but be owned it was only a poor
one, when he afterwerde confessed that the Government
did not intend to remedy it. The Government had the
power to remedy it materially, and he and many others
could not but regret their disinclination to exercise it.
Notwithstanding all that the Noble Earl had said, he still
would lay at the door of free-trade-policy the origin of all
those evils to which his Noble Friend near him had ad-
verted, and he was convinced that they could only look
forward to a continuance of free-trade principles for a
continuance of poverty and distress in the agricultural
population, and of stagnation in agricultural operations.
But he did not attribute all this mischief to free trade
alone, nor to free trade and bad harvests acting together.
He was persuaded, that the gradual increase of local
taxation had rested with its whole weight on those por-
tions of the population in rural districts, who were ex-
pected by free-traders to rise superior to the difficulties
which surrounded them. The Government might have
removed some of those local burdens, and, by so doing, have
alleviated, at least, the hardships of the free-trade
system. From a calculation which he had made, En-
glish farmers paid at least fifty per cent. more money
into the Exchequer than the American grower, upon the
sale of the same quantity of wheat realising the same
price. It was, in fact, a differential duty in favour of the
American as against the English producer. But the
greatest sufferers from free trade were the clergy, whom
nothing less than twenty per cent. of a main average
protection would compensate. The question was one in
which he felt deeply interested, and one which every
year, nay, every month, strengthened his convictions
that there was danger to this country.
The Duke of RICHMOND requested their Lordships'
attention while ho presented several petitions on this
subject, from various counties and places in England.
He could cite several instances to their Lordships of the
prejudicial operation of the measure of free-trade. With
respect to the surrender of farms, arising from that mea
sure, he might mention one instance of an indepen-
dent and unquestionably honest farmer—a gentle.
man of his acquaintance—who refused, however,
to surrender his farm because be believed that
the time was not distant when there would be a re-
action, and when agricultural produce would have its
just protection. He believed a reaction was going on,
although the Houses of Lords and Commons were, per-
haps, the last places where reaction would he likely to
manifest itself. He did not say that the Legislature
ought again to return to a sliding scale, but he would say
that the time was fast approaching when a protective
duty should be levied for the purposes of revenue, and
on this point he rejoiced to tell their Lordships that the
Protectionists had now in their favour a largo body of
the mercantile and shipping interests, and they had, in
addition, in the manufacturing districts, large masses of
the operatives in favour of a return to a protective duty—
men who hid experienced the sad effects of free trade,
and some of whom declared that under the operation of
that measure they often got but half a day's work, and
fur that but a quarter of a day's pay.—(Laughter.) The
Noble Lord concluded by presenting a number of peti-
tions from places in the counties of Kent, Sussex, Suf-
folk, Stafford, Wilts, Rutland, Devon, Leicester, Glou-
cester, fec , in favour of a return to a protective duty.
The House, on the motion of the Marquis of LANS-
DOWNE, adjourned to Friday.

HOUSE OF C0,11.410N5, May 15.
EMIGRATION FROM IRELAND.
Mr. MONSELL then rose, pursuant to notice, to call
the attention of the House to the importance of encou-
raging and promoting emigration from Ireland. It was
difficult to introduce such a question, as matters con-
nected with Ireland had become quite irksome
to the House. He perfectly agreed, however, with
the sentiments expressed by the lion. and Learned
Solicitor-General, that what was wanted for Ireland was
a series of beneficial measures, and he did not in the
least imagine that emigration alone would be serviceable
in all parts of Ireland, or that in any part of Ireland
it could produce alone the results that they all desired.
The last time this question was brought forward was in
February, 1847, by the Honourable Member for Gates.
bead, and in June of the same year by the Noble Lord
the Member for Falkirk, and it must have struck all who
listened to the remarkable speeches made on those two
occasions, that all the prophecies then wade had been since
literally fulfilled. Every statement made with regard
to the results that were to be apprehended if the sug-
gestions then thro en out were not attended to had been
more then verified, and be thought that was a very good
reason why Government should take the subject into
their early consideration.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He was anxious to occupy the time of the House
as briefly as possible, and therefore he should touch but
little on the existing social state of Ireland, with which
unfortunately they had been made too well acquainted
by the repeated debates which had taken place iu the
House ou the subject, and the statements which
were to be found in the newspapers and
the blue books. By this time every gentleman
in the House must be well acquainted with the fact that
no country in the world had ever been in a worse con-
dition than Ireland was at the present moment. The ex-
isting state of things in Ireland was unparalleled in the
history of nations. Never had a country suffered so
much as Ireland had done during the last few yeare.
Any gentleman who referred to the Poor-law Returns
would find that while in England the sustenance of a
pauper for the year cost something like 4Z, the suste-
nance of one in Ireland did not cost so much as 11.;
and notwithstanding the difference, the rates were so
high in Ireland that persons could not pay theme and
there was every prospect of the state of the country be-
coming gradually worse. A most remarkable statement
had been made with regard to the west and south of Ire-
land, by a distinguished foreigner who was well known
to Members of that House, and whose knowledge was
only exceeded by his philanthropy. He said, he had seen
in his perambulations round the world humanity in most
of the latitudes and longitudes, including the aborigines
in .North America, the South Sea Islands, New Zealand,
and Australasia, but nowhere had he seen misery of such
an aggravated character as in the western unions
of Ireland. He (Mr. Monsell) freely admitted
that emigration would do no good at all in some districts
of Ireland, for the people were reduced to such a state
of misery that they would not make good emigrants,
and therefore it would be idle to attempt emigration
in their case. But, on the other hand, he believed
that in as many as thirty unions, in which distress was
not so acute as in the eight or nine unions of which they
had heard so much, emigration might be beneficially re-
sorted to, and he moreover believed that it would rescue
them from becoming as bad as other parts of Ireland.
He was perfectly certain if they did not comply with the
petition of the Limerick board of guardians, which he
had alluded to, that in the county of Limerick the
same scenes of distress would be witnessed that had
occurred elsewhere. In the union of Ballina, such
was the misery that some of the population had scarcely
a human appearance, and many cme before the As-
sistant Barrister to pray that he would transport them,
saying, that they would rather work in chains abroad
than be at liberty at home without enough to keep
them alive. Even the lauded proprietors were ruined,
their goods were distrained upon, and they were
left in fact without any resources for their support.
How was it that the potato failure of 1847 found Ire-
land in the position it was? The population had been
for years excluded from all the privileges of subjects,
they had been reduced to the lowest possible state of
degradation, they were satisfied with the lowest
possible amount of human food ; there was
no other country in the world where the people ware
contented with such a low amount of the means of sub-
sistence. The potato failure of 1847 found them in the
position of passengers on board a ship who had been
living on short allowance. He thought it must strike the
House at once that their condition could be
only relieved either by some means for in-
creasing largely the amount of the food in
the country, or else by removing the people to some
other country where they could procure it. Compare
their condition with that of the people in other coun-
tries. In the ten years from 1821 to 1831 the popula-
tion of Munster, for example, increased 15 per cent.
In England there were 53 persons to each arable acre;
in Ireland there were 60; but in Ireland three-fourths
of the population were wholly dependent on agriculture,
whereas in England only a fourth or a fifth were de-
pendent on agriculture.—(Hear, hear.) In France
there were only 39 persons to 100 arable acres ; whilst
in Ireland there were 60 persons to each arable acre ;
and it should be recollected that there was in France a con-
siderable amount of manufactures,whilst in Ireland there
was hardly any. Under those circumstances, was it won-
derful that the unemployed people were eating of the very
vitals of the country, and hanging like a millstone round
the neck of every person who endeavoured to exert him-
self ? So long as that social state remained it was
utterly impossible to introduce capital into Ireland, and
introduce
would believed every remedy which they could
would be utterly ineffectual until they removed that great
and most tremendous evil. The only chance of getting
any portion of capital into Ireland was to make the so-
cial condition of Ireland such as would attract capital.
He did not believe that the grants they had made
had conferred all the good that was claimed
for them.—(Hear, hear.) Why, all the money ex-
pended under the Land Improvement Bill, which was
an exceedingly good measure, did not employ 2(1,000
people, who would not be permanently benefited
by what was done in this respect for them. Had the
money been employed in emigration the country would
have been relieved, and the poor emigrants would them-
selves have been materially benefited. The result was.
not so bad as was stated, since successful emigrants al-
most invariably sent over money to their friends at
home, thus forming as it were the funds for future emi-
gration. It was said that the emigration was excessive.
What was its nature?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Those who had real recently the accounts of the
class of persons going to New York must perceive
that they consisted of the middle class, the very
persons who employed the labouring class; therefore an
irreparable injury was inflicted upon upon the country.
The Hon. Gentleman read statements from Inspectors
in various parts of Ireland in support of the accuracy of
this statement, and to show that many corn merchants
had become bankrupt because the farmers to whom they
had lent money had sold off their stock and made for the
new world.—(Hear.) He denied that assisting emi-
gration would prevent, us heretofige, Voluntary emi-