The Sun.
London, England, 1831-09-03 00:00:00

4GRICULI.URAL REPORT FOR AUGUST

on metal review of the last month it must be
considered as favourable to the business of the
alalon, and as affording an opportunity of securing
re various crops of grain in better condition than
has been known for several years past. In the early
V" of August, soon after the commencement of
harvest, showers were not unfrequent ; and, as they
Were accompanied with a close, warm atmosphere,
fears were entertained that the wheat would soon
beginlvererrisk sprout;
but luckily this hazard was quickly
brisk a change to dry, bright weather, attended
, i
7
gales, which removed all chance of injury
cian) the crop from sprouting in the field, or from
thalPness in the rick or barn. Since this period
bag weather, with some few and partial exceptions,
been glorious harvest weather, such as has en-
;bled the farmer to prosecute his labour in a straight-
prward course, free from those tormenting per-
sesities which in rainy seasons baffle him at every
matter
and render the business of harvest not only a
of bodily fatigue, but also of mental vexation
1
Misery, The exceptions to this uniform favour-
-1.) e state of the weather have arisen chiefly from
lannaer-storms, which have visited, more or less,
mostwi parts of the countiy, and have fallen par-
-9 with severe and awful violence. Drench-.
114,..11; rains have in some places followed in the
1.„41_, of tremendous explosions of the thunder-
nus, and buildings and crops have been fired,
tadto.,the. lives of men and of animals sacrificed
as the inevitable power of the lightning. But,
deifar as the process of harvest has gone, the
esl has been short and temporary; a renewal
ne weather has soon dried the corn, before it
Z' sustained injury, and, where the rain has not
en too heavy, it has seasonably refreshed the earth,
Td obviated the effects of too continued a drought.
there has
been one other alloy to the cheerfulness,
hs well as the expedition, with which the present
pltvest his been carried on. Much sickness has
revailed; and, in some districts, it has been no un-
Elarnon thing for a master, on entering his harvest
to find, day after day, a large proportion of
oalttbourers unable to continue their work, sinking
de r the weight of a sort of influenza, which at-
aietlied the head and stomach, sometimes going off
4 critical swellings of the face and glands of the
)1:1c. and sometimes terminating in typhus fever.
'„ this circumstance—and in some parts of the
f°o"ntrY which depend mainly on external assistance
to' the ; a
of
„ - aigatneriogtheir crops, from the opposi-
-- which has been offered to the working of Irish
tiontirers—some delay has occurred in the prosecu-
f the harvest. It is, however, earlier than
s ; far advanced even in the north ; and in the
oa_tith the country is so generally cleared of corn that,
se
a „the„ lit of September, the shooter will enjoy the
to
r,
-"cage, unusual of late years, of seeing his dogs
ge, uninterrupted in his sport by standing grain,
ofd the poor coveys will hardly find a solitary field
bird barley to afford them a refuge. The breed of
is said to be better than was expected. The
107heYa of partridges and tildes of pheasants are large,
of titnigh there are many barren pairs. On a review
-le general character of the harvest, and of the in-
artnation that may be collected concerning it, there
?erns some reason to believe that the produce of the
Zr. May not vary much from an average one. In
at, the early soils are most deficient both in
jaw and grain, and that deficiency is most emi-
i,eatlY conspicuous where this tendency to earliness
4c°rlibined, as it not unfrequently is, with weak-
bt4,of staple; for then not only did the frosts of
) curtail the straw and debilitate the ear, but the
ii„lght hot suns of the latter end of July were too
Cweiful for the wheat plant ; " it withered away
yeeanse it lacked moisture ;" rapid and premature
)I*ness came upon it. In such places the yield is
'itntY and the *grain thin. On such soils also is
la, 41:era wheat most commonly sown, and, although
a•,l,torward in ripening, yet both it and other wheats
ael:"trly situated suffered from the close, hot, damp
at‘,4„,tner which prevailed in the early days of
sa ; mildew affected it, it turned off suddenly,
fro
the simultaneous ripening of the crop, as
ineau as the partial defalcation of operative strength
th,;ced by sickness, it became impossible to apply
Iq anlY remedy—the immediate use of the sickle.
cooler and more retentive soils the wheat crop
I),!_a,' in various gradations, to a full and heavy
,"tlen both' in straw and grain. Yet the deficien-
%les lire too numerous, and the variations too great,
talkw a higher calculation than that of the differ-
fieti- Product meeting at about an average crop.
rtatement, in many points very similar, may be
irde stith respect to the barley crop; yet, though
tae bulk of straw is not great, there seems reason
a anticipate it will yield well, although the
iisivilate may not very generally be of superior quality
to colour or body. It must, however, almost
tfaliversally, have been housed in capital order, and,
Calculated
the dryness and hardness of the grain, be well
li
aleulated to yield the maltster an abundant profit
on„d increase. Oats, too, in various situations, and
different qualities of soil, range between wide
e" ktr tmes ; yet, in most situations where there is
,‘,-lepth of soil, or a cool substratum, or where the
tiu:t)wers fell early enough in the summer to invigo-
s them after the frosts of the spring, there the
1.1:4, both of straw and grain, is good, and the qua-
y excellent. Peas and beans are, as far as can be
b:'ltained, under an average produce; but the
I,o4tti and precarious nature of this crop renders it
r,Paasible to estimate it correctly, from the different
Tsthlts which every farm, and even field, will present.
zanee plata of clover, among the spring corn, is by no
ca„,ans Rross, although deficiencies are not generally
R,s--Pittined. of ; and this is the case with artificial
ao,o'saca in general. Tile crop of turnips seem to be
throughout the country—all the earlier sow-
stia Particularly so ; and the backward plants
haideh, on poor soils, were completely checked, have
fro„s• e some progress, and numerous hands, released
\7;." the operations of harvest, are hoeing them out.
chap t still there are considerable failures. Hot,
sa,y brows, and weak cold soils, present at least
lari s
anad an appearance as usual ; and on light
"' of middling quality, although the fly
Illebeen absent, the worm has been busy. Much,
oillefore, •of the main turnip crop, on those
post where it is most wanted, will be light and
sf.Pn'i. The precarious product, hops, the subject
la„an alUdi speculation, gambling, and lying, is at
th,:!elinowledged to be a fair crop ; mould vanishes,
fav-duty rises, and picking has commenced under
, °arable circumstances. Potatoes are universally
.apt.
so "ented ss vigorous and flourishing; the early
yiT, which have been partially digged up, have
tt,tited vvell,•and the main crop gives a premise of
heueing inferior in productiveness. The state of
tae-tearn market is such as hardly to warrant an as-
aqtion of the average rate of productiveness which
Itioan'e assigned to she present harvest. Every
It °f griain is in demand; and advancing in price.
socialist, however, be remembered that the late un-
ft4l,elltipted continuance of fine weather has kept
to.rial.ers busily engaged in seizing the golden oppprs
leavrtY, and storing their corn while the sun shine;
othlaß them little' leisure to think or act on any
v•t* Point of husbandry. If, when the hurry of
‘votreves,t is wet, and the farmer sets his flails to
earnest, prices do not materially subside, it
tita,„," a proof either that we have overrated the
tti :"Ilt of the present vrop, or that the importation
hot: feW millions of (wasters of foreiga wale! does
Sati interfer.S with tlrs disposal 'of oils
°thve Produce. 'Therethas 'been but :variation
liie meat market for some time; it is, at least, as
sa,a" as at the beginning of the month, though with
Raid degree of dulness for the present. Store stock,
eetepaltilaitr sheep are rising in value, and the
'ill Prospect of eburidiaiee -of forward turnips
the s.,,g°oti-ibute to. stipport, and probably increase?
7"vanee,
y
h,t)illig:grOUSe are this year very unequal in
os of4l of. the old birds having, in consequence of the
are their first brood, brought forward a second. They
h,gha 114 erbater abundance in the lower than in the
*4, ulatricta, being obliged to resort to the latter for
;4: 0 bt.,errer:

IMPERIALPARLIAMENT

(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

At Half-past Twelve o'clock the SPEAKER took his seat.
The House went into a Committee on Turton's Divorce
Bill. Counsel were called in on behalf of the petitioner,
Mrs. Turton, and witnesses were examined in support of
the Bill. The evidence of Dr. Russell and General Brown
(Mrs. Turton's father), as given in the House of Lot ds,
was read, the attendance of those gentlemen having been,
by an order of the House, dispensed with. At the con-
clusion of the proceedings the House resumed, and the
Chairman made his report.
Mr. SADLER presented a petition from the town of
Nottingley, in the county of York, expressing the deep
regret of the petitioners at the existing distress in Ireland,
and praying the establishment of a system of poor laws in
Ireland. Also a petition from Paisley, complriining of
distress, and praying the House to adopt some remedy for it.
Mr. DENISON presented a petition from the ownets
of craft, to the amount of 90,000 tons, trading en the
River Thames, praying that the Bill introduced by the
Hon. Alderman (Wood) might pass into a law. The
Hon. Member trusted that his Majesty's Ministers would
give their support to the Bill.
Mr. MANGLES supported the prayer of the petition.
Mr. EWART begged to ask the Right Hon. Under
Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether it
was the intention of his Majesty's Government-to take into
consideration any measures for the regulation of steam-
boats, seeing the recent lamentable occurrence in regard to
the loss of the Rothsay Castle.
Mr. GEORGE LAMB said, that with regard to intro-
ducing any legislative enactment, he was at present unable
to give any answer. It was certainly highly desirable
that some regulations should be adopted to prevent such
accidents occurring. The fact was, that there was an Act
(the fitutth of the late King) in existence, but he did not
know that its provisions had been found very effective. He
had, however, very anxiously directed his attention to the
subject, and although he did not pledge himself to
bring forward any Legislative measure he thought that
some useful regulations might be made.
After a few words from Mr. CHOKER and Mr. GRANT,
the purport of which, from the continued bus in the
House, was not audible in the gallery,
Mr. G. LAMB said it had been intimated to him, by
the relatives of some of the unfortunate sufferers, that it
was intended to institute proceedings against the pro-
prietors of the Rothsay Castle steam-boat, and therefore
he did not wish to give any opinion upon the subject at
present.—(Hear.)
Mr. JOHN CAMPBELL was understood to protest
against any legislative enactment to regulate the speed of
steam-boats.—The petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. BLAMIRE presented a petition from the various
ports in the county of Cumberland, praying for a repeal
of the duty on marine insurances.
Mr. CROKER hoptd that if the repeal of these duties
were brought forward, every Member of the House would
long be repealed. He instanced the various acts of incen-
diarism which had been committed from a spirit of re-
venge upon the farmers, a feel ng that would be inopera-
tive, and doubtless entirely destroyed by the farmers being
enabled more generally to insure their property.
Lord ALTHORP said the subject was under considera-
tion by his Majesty's Government.
Sir E. SUGDEN expressed his hope that not only that
duty, but the duty on insurances generally, would ere
long lend his support to his Majesty's Government—(Hear,
hear)—that whatever difference of opinion there might
be upon other points, he hoped the Government would be
supported in their endeavours to destroy a practice so dis-
' graceful and afflictine., and so much endangering the well-
, being of society, as the various acts of incendiarisin which
had prevailed in the country.—(Hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL presented a petition,
the purport of which we could not hear, and said that i❑
the exercise of that discretion ss hich he hoped to see fol-
lowed by other Hon. Members, he should not create any
delay, but merely present it to the House.
Mr. CROKER begged to remind the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman, that to show that this
Reform Bill—so highly important—had not been delayed
longer than other measures of vast importance, he
would mention the Committees upon two great oc-
casions, viz. upon the Orders i❑ Council, and upon
the late Duke of York's conduct—on both of which occa-
sions the Committees sat longer than the present Com-
mittee on the Reform Bill hail done.

Sir E. SUGDEN said, that there could not have been
any unnecessary delay in this Bill, for it appeared that
the Bill had not been complete until last night. It was
only this morning that several new clauses had been put
into his hand, and therefore the people of. England ought
to know that it was only up to this moment that the Go-
vernment had been prepared to go on with the Bill. The
delay that had already occurred appeared now to have bee❑
absolutely necessary, as
.it had afforded the Government
sufficient time to amend their Hear.)
Mr. Pill NGLE.presented a petition from Noblemen and
Commissioners of Supply in the county of Selkirk, praying
that that county might not be united with the county
of Peebles. The Hon. Member would not now detain the
House with any lengthened statement of his opinions on the
al terationsproposed in respect to theSeotch counties,but when
the Scotch Reform Bill went into Committee he should most
certainly move that the integrity of the counties should
be preserved.
Mr. FERGUSSON would take that opportunity of
giving notice that it was his intention to move
in Committee on the Scotch Reform Bill, that the num-
ber of Scotch counties should not be diminished. Al-
though the subject was not totally unconnected
with the subject matter of the present petition
he would not now enter upon it, but he could not but say
that the necessary consequence of uniting the Committtees
would be in some instances a partial disfrachisement of pre-
sent voters.

Mr. DAVIES presented a petition from the owners of
property and Commissioners of Supply of Cromarty, pray-
ing that they might continue entitled to return a Member.
Mr. C. BRUCE presented a petition from the county
of Elgin, praying that that county might not lie encum-
bered with any part of the county of Nairn, The Hon.
Member could not see why so large a population should
be made to divide their rights of county franchise.
Sir C. FORBES saw a strange inconsistency in the
framers of the Reform Bill in that, while their principle
was to divide the counties in England, they were, most de.:
sirons of uniting them in Scotland.
Mr. C. BRUCE also presented a petition from the
Provost and Magistrates of Fortrose, against that con-
structive clause in the Scotch Reform Bill, which would
call in the Sheriff of the county from a distance to do what
they were quite competent to do more efficiently upon the
spot, and which would thus atfpject the emlnty to unne-
cessary inconvenience, and a large increase of expenditure.
The Hoar. AI stem, also gave notice that it was his in-
tention in Committee on the Scotch Reform Bill, to move
to introduce a clause, giving the controul of all elections to
the local Magistrates, instead of the Sheriff's clerk.
' Mr. 11. GRATTAN presented a petition from the dis-
senters of a parish in Doivn, praying for the repeal of the
Vestry Act, and the introduction of poor laws into Ire-
land. Also a petition from -an individual named Kirk,
land, praying the Ilo!Ise to take his ease into :heir copai-
,.
deratiwn
Sir GEORGE CLERK presented a perltton front the
corn distillers of Scotland against the use of molasses in
distilleries believing it to have been tile means of opening
a door to considerable fraud. He begged the particular
attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the pe-
tition, as it came from an infitzential body of men.
Lord ALTIIORP thought it a matter of great impor-
portance both to Ireland and Scotland, and considered the
only way in which it Could he satisfactorily disposed of
wa4 hy a Committee up stairs, to the appointment of
which lie had no objection.
Sir GEORGE thought the appointment of
a Committee w'oo'd be attended with no real good, as he felt
Confident very little progress would be made in puttn9
the house in poieesiou of the true facts of tne ease, • '
Mr. WRANGHAII presented a petition from Audbury,
agalnat the use of molasses in distillation.
On the motion that the House resolve itself into a Com-
mittee on the Reform Bill,
Mr. STANLEY gave notice, that on the 30th of Sep-
tember lie sboold mne?, fir leav; io b;ing is hill 'far the
amendim,:nt of the Graod',lury Laws of Leland.
• Mr. HUGHES HUGHES intimated his intention of
withdraWing his motion respecting the division of
counties. He (lid so in consequence of the alteratiota,a
which had been made in that clause by the Chancellor •of
. 7 .
the Exchequer. • • '
• On`the Motion that the Speaker leave the Chair,
Mr. CROKER wished to. ask the Noble Lord oppcatte
Aft
(harp) what_ day, urok.ided tbc. , gotC'h7c4igi?
the
Cbmiiittee ^1 4efOnp 411; beroiv the: approaol,-
;rig and very interesting solcmnity Which %yea about
f 0 take pl.s(e next weel:, he would fix for the report.
The Noble Lord would be aware that the Bill
was to be re-committed; and as a proof of the
earnest desire, be (Mr. Croker) had not to interpose any
avoidable obstruction to its progress, he woul4 suggest;
that if the Committee reeze terminated before the period
?Ppoiiited fr. 'the Coronation, . the :ictl4 .Lord.

should take the report upon the Tuesday following, the
10th inst. If the matter were so generally understood,
•
it would be a great convenience to themselves, as they
might make their necessary arrangements accordingly.
I.ord ALTHORP rose with great pleasure to answer the
question of the Hon. Gentleman. The course of proceeding
which he (Lord Althorp) had determined to adopt
was, that immediately on the close of the Coin_
mittee the report should be adopted. If the Com-
mittee was concluded before the Coronation, which
he hoped and trusted would be the case, he would,
according to the suggestion of the Right Hon. Gentleman
(11r. Croker) not bring up the report before Tuesday,
the 10th instant. —( Hear, hear. )
Mr. CHOKER had another question to ask, sup_
losing the Bill got through Coiumittee before the
Coronation, whether the Noble Lord would not
think it right to adjourn over Friday and Saturday, as well
as Thursday next? It would, lie was sure, be a great re-
lief and convenience to Hon. Members generally.
Lord ALTHORP said it would undoubtedly be a
neat convenience esp-cially to Honourable Members
who in situations like his own ha .I been for so long a
time most laboriously occupied—(Hear, hear, hear)_..
if the House was to adjourn from Wednesday till Monday,
hut in that period of the Session, and
,time of the year,
lie found it necessary to take advantage of the Friday
and Saturday (or carrying forward the public busi-
ness —(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The House then
resolved into a Committee on the Reform Bill.
Mr. BERNAL in the Chair.
On the 31st clause being put.

SECOND EDITION.
SUN OFFICE, Seven o'clock.

Sir C. WETHERELL was glad that the public was now
of opinion that the discussions in that House had brought
within the reach of public understanding and com-
prehension, the great, the extensive, and infinite alterations
which were involved in the limits of the Reform Bill.—
An Honourable and Learned Friend of his (the At-
torney-General) had on a previous occasion complained
of the frivolous and vexatious conduct of the opposition.
It was, however, a very hard thing that they should be
called at a moment's notice to discuss a most important sub-
ject in the measure. by clauses new, or most materially
altered, which were daily and hourly issuing wet from the
Ministerial Press. —(Hear, hear.)—The Noble Lord
would recollect that some time ago, during the war, there
was a club in town, which was commonly called the
wet-paper-club, where the politicians ware so eager to
get hold of any of the daily journals, which com-
municated from time to time the transactions on the con-
tinent, that they began to read them before the papers
were dried at the fire—(Laughter)—from which circum-
stance they had derived their name. Now he (Sir C.
Wetherell) had this morning a new clause put into his hand
which had newly issued from the Ministerial Press, and
which was so damp and wet, that a cautious medical roan,
tinder the influence of fear for cholera, would have said,
" Don't touch that wet paper."—(Much laughter.)
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman hoped the time would
come very early when he should hear no noire complaints
of frivolous and vexatious delay in the reading of a clause
which a man could not in feet read until eleven o'clock
this inorniog, because it was not in print.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) He was convinced of the silliness and absurdity
of those complaints, both in and out 'of the House,
so undeservedly cast upon the opponents of the Bill.
Ile wished the too Hon. and Worthy Aldermen of the city
of London (Venables and Thompson) had been in their
places, because be should have wished to ask them if they
had received orders, mandates, and dictatorial commands
front their constituents respecting delaying the progress of
clauses not yet dry from the printing press.—(Hear.)
This Bill, however, now appeared so much altered,
that it was more like the frequent darned stockings
of Sir John Cutler—(Laughter)—and that from the fre-
quent inendirri°s the original appearance of the Bill was
lost.—(Hear, hear.) If it were not that he should delay
the house, he should move for a copy of the original Bill,
in order to ascertain what portion of " the Bill, the whole
Bill, and nothing but the Bill," which Honourable Mem•
hers bad been ordered on the hustings to support,
was now left.—(Cheers from the Opposition benches.)
One complaint that be had against the Bill was, as
had been observed by an Hon. Member on a former night, -
that it completely pulled down the old house, so that
scarcely one brick or stone was left standing upon the
other. The principle of the 30th clause was to e,tablish
a Court to which no name was given—a sort of Court
which was, Ire supposed, to be called a Court of Par-
liamentary Assize, or a Court of Oyer or, Terminer, in which
was to be tried the right or title of every man to vote at
elections for Members of Parliament.—( clear.) By the
original clause this right was to be confined to voters for
counties, but now it was proposed to extend it to boroughs
arid towns. Me now begged to ca 1 the attention of the
House to the sort of jndge who was to be ermined into
such a jurisdiction; the House wonld find that those judges
were to be appointed by the Lord Chief Justice of the
King's Bench, for every county, and for every district of a
county; these judges were to he barristers, who were to
try the lists of voters, and having examined the title of
persons to vote, to sign the lists. Then came a proviso
that must in his (Sir C. Wetherell's) opinioc, have been
accidentally introduced into the Bill ; it was this, "that
no barrister so appointed as aforesaid shall be eligible to
serve in Parliament for eighteen mouths from the time of
such, his appointment for the county, or any part, riding,
or division of the county, for willed' he shall be so ap-
pointed." It may, perhaps, be urged as a sort of
justification for this provisio, that a barrister
would have an opportunity in his character of Judge of
picking up some information, or obtaining some influence, so
that it was deemed improper that he shotild sit in Perna..
ment for IS months. He asked his Majesty's Ministers
why, if they deemed it proper to make the Judges of these
Courts ineligible to sit in Parliament for 18 months that
they did not make the Commissioners also ineligible. He
saw that two of the Commissioners were Members
of the House, and all of them, except the Lord Chief
Baron of Scotland ( who by the bye
ought not to have been
in the list, were elegible to sit as Members, while the bar-
risters who should be appointed Judges of the various
counties and districts were declared ineligible for eighteen
months, and it could not be supposed that the C,o(llll:li-
sitmers had less opportunities of acouif:ng irdoetaa,ton, and
practising intrigee, if they were so disposed. This pre-
Cedence in favour of the Commissioners would—however
tploepmualnar the
oppositeil i l I..zirer, laitte b eg r
esaaid t
)
He would not say that the g ving or withholding
dtio l
ssatie4abtyie HGeaern.
a privilege was prudent or not, but yet he must say that
according to e. very corornqn that whidi was
sauce file the goose-was sauce also for the ga • nder—(llear,
hear)—and the framers of this notable Bill would be put
to a great deal of ingenuity in delendiug the clause in
its present shape. and making it consistent with the clause
appointing the Commissioners. Tl,e ;ppoiritnient of
Judges was it dengecoos prece'dent as regarded the psi_
vilegee of this House.—.-(lfear.) The constant labour of
the House, from verY earliest pe:riod, had been to
preserVe under its own controul the riehts-ef the conStie
o
tuent, body yet they 'were 12,iliw carter!; o it) traiiSiei• iht it
?ewer es.,il thr;e privilege to Budges appointed by tire
thief Juetice of the Kineo Pence, ; that was a most dan-
gerous principle.—(Hear.) So early as the reign of
Queen Elizabeth, a standing Committee of Privileges had
been appointed ; in James the First's reign a ---eerniiiiitee
of Privileges and Returns tae eopointed;'which ceased
only i.assiug of the tcarenville Act; therefore, he
was correct in saying; that it lead bi!en • the constant
practice of the house to keep in its own e'.ustod.: thePooier
of saying who should, et-el who iroulil hot ekercise'the
night of yotiOg. Of this right the House were now
called upon to deprive themselves, by delegating it to per-
sons nominated by the Lord Chancellor (`.;r the lAPPsiienl-.
merit Was' stibiect to their pproval of that l'isol4le peesonage,
'4l-4:1 Was a dahernite 'erre! a mischievous Acltt----(ovas
faerrq 'tire 009 4'0;0 To Slrn th@ opigiofis . of.
eminent 111C11 the privileges possessed by the
)house of Commons, there had not been a writer from
Montesquieu downwards, who had not spoken in the
highest twos of praise upon them. lie cs V(;)
might be told that the tiee'eziere of fzeee „fudges was not
neec7sca:•i'y floel, lea Mei' after the election, upon a coin-
phiintite the noture of an election petition, the errors of
these Judges woad be subject to revision. He admittrA
that subs a provision Was Made, but *hie did not alter his
ul'iecti°h!. He obieeted i;O tine transTer' of thepei'vilegA
74e.tiire so persons not appointed by the Parliament
but by the Lord Chancellor, who was the Minister of the
lAy
• He knew not under this clause what •flight of nay-
risters Wou!d be appointed; by knew uaY I,rotyMat4',
i.s there w.eee ciety-flve co-ontiOs.aOttl distriaia of narcotics,
NVogiti be that number of barristeis
to carry on the elections. Ilis main objection
was, that such appointments to such an office were uncon-
stitutional.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Was it ever b?es
fore heard of that the Lord Chancellor or sire Jkidges
of the King's Bench s'ece'ol nave' 'a • controul over
the conroiteent indy...:La -fight which belonged to the
House of Commons?—(Cheers from the • Opposition.)
He well knew what .clamours would have 'been raised
throughout the country, if serh-a oroposition :rad been made

in the time of the stuarts.—(Hear, hear.) A Judge ought
not to be dragged into such matters as appointing pers ins
to decide on Parliamentary law ; those persons being nomi-
nate I might be accused of partiality, and if they did
wrong, the reflected shadow of that wrong would he cas
on the Judges who appointed them.—( Hear, he ir.)
did not to cast reflections on the Judges of the 'King',
Bench, or on his Noble Friend, Lord Brougham and Vain
—(Laughter)—but the principle of his objections were ap-
plicable to all future Chancellors and Judges, and at all
times.—(Hear ) By the present clause the Judges were
to be treated as Excise-officers, and dealt with in a man.
ner that a barrister of a year's standing would be ashamed
of. But what took place in clause 25 was of a more strange
description still. There these judicial malefactors, by
an accidental deviation from the orders of the Bill were
to be tried in an action of debt. He (Sir C. We-
therell) wishad to know what price his Learned Friend
(the Attorney-General) put on the heads of those Learned
•fudges who were to be thus treated ; was a tribunal
to be subject to such degradation ? Was such a
despicable Judicature, so open to partizanships, to be for
one moment tolerated.—(Hear.) At least, if these cri-
minal Judges were to be subjected to all be adverted
to, he thought they should be better paid. A poor
paltry Si. a day was but a mean compensation for
the drudgery they would have to go through, and the
odium and disrespect they might bring upon themselves
innocently. With respect to the subject of expense, he was
not aware how many of these Learned Judges were to be
appointed, there were, however, to be 65 counties, and
he could not see how less than 65 Judges could be ap-
pointed. When appointed, the question was, how they
were to be paid ? They must either be remunerated
trout the Treasury or from the county rates, in
either of which cases he would venture to predict
the instigators of such a meisure would not suc-
ceed. Perhaps, however, the Noble Lord opposite (A,-
thorp) would, in the plethora of his generosity put
the expense of the salaries of those Judges into
the miscellaneous estimate,. He had made a sort of sum-
mary of the expence of these learned but degraded person-
ages, and he had no hesitation in saying it would cost the
country above 20,000/. He considered the present plan so
crude that it never could be perfectly carried into effect ;
if it ever should come into existence, it would operate a
great deal of confusion, and lie attended by very different
consequences to those which the promoters expected.

- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was lure it was quite
impossible that any body could have heard his Learned
Friend without being delighted and amused with his wit
and ingenuity ; but he must be allowed to say, that wit
and ingenuity had been directed to points which had
been fully discussed and satisfactorily decided by
the House last night. With regard to the delays,
whether he was justified in calling them frivilous
and vexatious, he would not now say, because be saw
a strong disposition on the other aide of the House
to argue the case fairly on its own merits. There was
no doubt that some of the friends of the Bill had thrown
difficulties in the way of its passing, but that completely
upset the assertion of Hon. 'Umbels on the other side, those
Members were pledged and bound down to vote for the
Bill, the whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill, and that
they had no opinion of their own. his Majesty's Go-
vernment had been taunted with making repeated altera-
tions in the Bill. If it was a crime to make any thing
already good better, he (the Attorney-General) would
plead guilty to the charge ; but he denied that any of the
alterations that had been made took aught from the
great principle of the Bill, or that it had at all
sunk in the estimation of the county.—(Hear, heir.) The
good opinion of the public had, like a smooth stream,
gone rippling on, till it had been increased by tributary
streams to the vast ocean—the whole country were in
favour of the Bill, and were looking forward to its
passing with the brightest hopes. His Learned and Hon.
Friend's high-sounding resolution, from which many would
be led to suppose some great inroad was about to be made
on the Constitution, had dwindled into a modest motion,
in bringing forward which he had so wrapped up his
speech in witicisms that it was no small difficulty to follow
him through his long labyrinths. His lion. Friend had
deprecated the appointment of these Judges tieing with
the Lord Chancellor, in that he was entirely mistaken.
The Great Seal had only to approve, and not to
appoint. It was true it was in the breast
of that Noble Lord, whether the appointment should
take place or not, but every person must see the pursuing
of such a comae would be attended with the best results.
It was then said that the office was such as to be
unworthy tie acceptance of a barrister of eminence. Why
it was well known that there were hundred's of barristers
who had no business (he was sorry to say so), who would
gladly accept such a situation, rather than lead a dilatory
life. By the appointment of these men the public had
the securityand respectability of the Bar, and the high
veto of the Great Seal, as a pledge that these Judges would
do their duty. His Hon. and Learned Friend had stated that
these Judges would be liable to actions. Did he forget
that the present Learned Judges of this country were sub-
ject to the same thing? Did the lion. Member
not know that a Learned Judge refusing to sign
a bill of exceptions,' or a writ of habeas empus,
was liable to the penalty of 5001. ; nay, more, formerly
Judges were not allowed to try causes in their own
county. With respect to the remuneration to be al-
lowed to these Judges, he had not seen the clause
since the blanks had been filled up, or he certainly
should have proposed the more appropriate sum of five
guineas in the place of 51.-9-(Laughter)—but
per-
haps that would not have met the approbation
of his Hononrable Friend the Member for Middlesex, who
might probably have thought it much too large a sum.
The Hon. anti Learned 11Iember contended fur the pro-
priety of appointing barristers, and stated that 4 sofficAent
prot!-ction was afforded fur impartiality and propriety in
their conduct in 2mo-her clause, which provided for the
punishment of those who might be found to be remiss or
negligent in their duty. There was one thing some Hon.
Gentlemen seemed to have almost lost sight of, which wee,
that the country and the House of Commooe lead adopted
the principle of the Bill, and, thesafoae, he objected to arty
discussion being raised on the general merits of the Bill,
or on any part of it which had been already sanctioned
by the House. Then having determined upon -the prin-
..ciple, the course pursued by his Majesty's govaaoMeot
was, in his humble opinion, the last suited to carry that
pr inciple into etryctt--
sir f„ STOW3N observed that his Hon. and Learned
iend (the Attorney-General) appeared to have a desire
to force on the discussion as to the general principle o;
the Bill. As to the observation that the easunSty was
out with a view(Sir E. Sug-
saastied with the measure, it could only have been thrown
to 'si:M4Ss diseuasiou, He
nr-t) dal not haattly form any opinion nor without
proper evidence, but he must be allowed to say,
that he should pursue what course he t'aosight
his public duty demanded, and tjstat which in
his opinion was the best for tha interests of the country,
without any atifersonse as to what might or might not be
wish of the' people—(llear)—and he could declare
tbilt he had never delivered an opitaion which, he
had any secret motives, ot; any IWti,Yes except those
he had expreseed ojealy> With tepid to the para.
Taiar eatie dote; coosideratio», he wished to know
\Oik the Lord Chancellor should have a veto given to
him 7s He meant nothing disrespectful to that Learned
Lord, but it was unnecessary for his Leasszassl Friend
(the Attorney-General) to land, 01-.. is conduct of the Lord
Chancellor, and t'aauo. that some other persons than
sof the King's Bench
the- ' ga might
be more properly
entrusted with the appointment of barristers. 'aia 'aiso
disapproved of tile appointment of ls.ara:sateas to.districts on
their circuits ; for aa a young barrister's interest
%%.„1,1 hint to cultivate the good will of
she attornies on his circuit, he might ha supposed
to be not altogether impartial. lie spoke this • out
disparagingly of ,
-Ses 4Ssasribeas 9t the bar,' than wisona a
mole honourable class of menu sat eNist x taut the House
would, ParaWSe ahatioatii appesinSraeata would not prove the
ttpsa aatial
letea'Sa He ith;ts objected to the 'nude of
seseittoevating barristers—supposing they were the most
proper persons. Then as to the veto gis.:eas Eo
the Lord Chancellor, he decidedly objealsat to that putt of
the clause ; for if the stedaaa weae men'above all suspicion
of cart; raottaea--.WhiChle'believed was the fact—it was
itogiropr tO plaCe-the Lord Chancellor's power over them, I,
l le spoke of the Lord Chancellor not as aJudicia', cliaraCiTT,
but as tie head of a political saarSy tilt; siiite; and it time
might airive what; a ;a.m.s! 'Chancellor Might be very tio-
opalar; the appointments lie Would then make might be
such as to create great diasatisfaction. He (Sir K, Sitgalse4s
therefore, hoped the Noble Lord oppocite' -aeohl4 c-onaeol
to strike out those woida ill' the asitraii Math% to the
Lord apprtlvarof appointments. He ob-
sA 40". t'Ot see in clause 42, a mode of punishing bar-
slater% 51 were proved to have miseondueted themselves r
he begged the Nob!;; Lord not to raise the
iisteras amid by the same Act as. siealialie' them ; if
they conducted thems&ea i.....piouerty, they should be left
to the psto4saans stviieli would follow them by their
aaasthron'at the bar, who would discard them frees. S'neir
• •
iotaerys That was the b,.st safeguard for isategrity of con-
duct of-the bar

Mr. JOHN WILLIANIS advocated the clause, and
L:,nteadtd that the appointment of Barristers was the
he'fit means of carrying that part of the Bill relative to
yam, into effect }I,; was sore, looking at the various

- _

Ip irts of the Bdi, that nu Lord Chancellor would io foto, e
have any paw ,r of influencing sot Ts by his sanction of
arristere a pointed by the Judges; therefore where
here could he no motive fir impropriety of conduct.
here could be no danger in I. acing the appel-
ate power in the ham's of th.• Lord Chancellor.
If the system proposed was cat rie I int, execution, electors
aid candidates would be relieved from those endless th.s-
•tites relating to the land-tax-assessments, for instance,
.with which they were now most vexatiously encumbered,'
vault! fiff (-tinily be put an end to. He had, on a former
iccasioa, heard the Honourable and Learned Nlember for
Boroughbridge, he believed, some two or three months
Igo, declare that he was then, as he supposed, deliver-
Mg his last speech, with some of the solemnities of
•eligion, and with the apparent sincerity of a dying man.
An HON. AIEMBER said it was nearly six months ago.
Mr. J. 'WILLIAMS—" I beg pardon, I take no note
f time but by its loss."—(General laughter. ) The H, n.
qember said he was glad to find that his Hon. and Learned
Friend had been very hypochondriacal on the occasion.
iiuded to. No man in Europe had since fought more
'tattles and skirmishes than that Hon. and LearnedGent'eman
'fe (Mr. J. Williams) however, thought th It that Hon.
old Learned Gentleman was now near his end. He must
1. that notwithstanding that Hon. Gentleman had not
ioined in the pledge which all had so anxiously accepted,
:et as almost every other clause respected only some trifling
imitation of this his principal and roost constitutional
.bjection, it would not be po.sible for him to persevere
ouch more in the exhibition of his talent, for humor mixed
ip with so much argument. He (11r.W.) considered this
iteasure in conformity with the rest of the Bill ; the objec-
ions to it were fallacious, and he would give the clause his
support.

Mr. NORTH considered the practical arrangemets devised
by the Bill quite imperfect, and they would be found, if car-
ried into operation, altogether unsatisfactory. The cl luxe
did not give sufficient powers to the barristers, and although
their appointment might without much objection be
vested in the Judges, with the veto of the Lord Chancellor,
yet the remuneration proposed, was inadequate to secure
barristers of respectability and talent. It would have a
most undiscernable effect in causing the barristers ap-
pointed to be pointed at, as the favourites of the Judges,
Ind he did not see how, consistently with the independence
of the Bar, that objection could be ,net.
Lord ALTHORP said that during the discussions it
tad been alleged that be had imposed mo.t impro-
perly the payment of the barristers on the public.
and not on the county rates, lest he should have been
opposed by county Members. The latter mode
he considered altogether improper. It might have applied
when Barristers were confined to county elections, hut
could have no proper application in electionf for eiti.'s
and boroughs : and as the benefi. of registration went to the
public, he was clearly of opinion that the public should
bear the expence. Very much bad been said respecting
the payment of barristers. He considered it might he mo-
tive sufficient for their undertaking the labour, that by so
iMing,they would make themselves known,aud increase their
legal emoluments. He did think that if it were intended
to send Barristers into their own curcuits, the emolu-
meats proposed were sufficient ; if not, it would be
necessarily greatly to increase them. But would it not,
if the system were at all to be carried into effect,
he easier to increase than to lower the proposed salary.
After some further observations from Lord Althorp,
Mr. Gordon, Mr. C. Grant, Mr. Campbell, Colonel Sib-
thorpe, and Mr. Pelham, clause 31 was agreed to
without a division.

The CHAIRMAN then put the next clause, and at Half
past Six the Committee were

(LEFT SITTING.)