The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-29 00:00:00

CANADA.

Mr. LEADER wished to put a question to the Noble Lord, the
Secretary of State for the Home Department. It was commonly re-
ported that another Act had been carried by the Government in Lower
Canada, which was wholly uncalled for. He was informed that the
Habeas Corpus Act had been suspended in Lower Canada until the 24th
of AuglAtt, and he wished to ask if that was the cam ?

Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say, that the disturbed state of
Lower Canada had compelled the Government of that province to sus-
pend the operation of the Habeas Corpus Act until August next.

Mr. LEADER wished to know if the Government meant to bring in a
Bill of Indemnity fur these unconstitutional proceedings.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said these proceedings were within the
powers of the Act of Parliament.
NEGRO APPRENTICESHIP.

The Order of the Day for taking into consideration the resolutions
relative to the Negro Apprenticeship in the Vest Indies having bceu
read,

Sir GEORGE GREY said that in rising in pursuance of a notice
given on Thursday night by a Noble Friend near him, lie deeply felt the
responsibility which pressed upon him. It had devolved upon
him, as the official representative in that House of that de-
partment of the Government with which the subject of those
resolutions he had to propose was more immediately connected,
to ask the House to adopt the resolutions which the Government
felt it their duty, under the circumstances of the question, to pro-
pose. He felt that responsibility deeply, not from any doubt of the
justice, expediency, or the humanity of the course which the Government
had felt it their duty to adopt, and if he had any hesitation as to the
propriety of the course which he felt it his duty now to recommend
for the adoption of the House, it was owing to the magnitude of the in-
terests connected with this questiOn—interests, as the Hon. Baronet had
properly expressed it, not of a pecuniary nature only, not of a subordi-
nate character however important in themselves, but affecting the pre.
sent and future welfare of hundreds of thousands of our fellow sub.
jects—objects of the solicitude of that country and of Parliament,
who had long been subject to degradation and oppression, and who were
now in a state of transition from that t, the possession and enjoyment
of the privileges of British subjects and freemen. The discussions that
had already taken place both in that House and elsewhere had been kept
free from the admixture of any party feeling. It had been discussed and
considered by risen of all parties, differing widely in political sen.
timents, with reference exclusively to those interests which it
was their duty as Members of the Imperial Legislature to con-
sider, and which they should never sacrifice to external
threats, or even the injudicious zeal of honest advocates against the
better judgment of that House. He would not waste the time
of this House by adverting to allusions that had been made else-
where with respect to the conduct of Government upon that question.
He would not allude to the language that had been used elsewhere, fur-
ther than to say that he remembered in that House hearing one of the
most eloquent speakers cn behalf of the immediate abolition of slavery
utter one of the most impressive protests against mixing up that question
with political feelings—(Cheers)—and for party purposes. When he
considered that a similar stand had been made in another place by a
Gallant Friend of his, he could not feel that there was any necessity
for him to enter into the objections and observations that had been made
elsewhere. He would, therefore, pass over that subject, merely ob-
set ring that he had seen in the Newspapers of the day, a letter
from one of the greatest and strongest advocates against slavery—
who had not feared to come' forward, and boldly expressed his
sentiments in defiance of one who had come forward for the purpose
of discrediting the cause. It would be in the recollection of the House
that after the subject had engaged much of the attention of the country,
after public meetings had been held in the metropolis, and after a me-
morial had been presented to Government, which had been laid on the
table of the House—after meetings had been held in different
parts of the country for the purpose of influencing the decision of the
House. A motion had been brought forward on the 29th of March by
his Honourable Friend the Member for Yorkshire. That motion led
to a protracted discussion. The debate was prolonged to a late hour
on the second night ; when after every argument had been exhausted
the House came to what he believed to be a deliberate decision upon the
question submitted for its consideration. There were present upon that
occasion no less than 498 Members, of whom 271 voted for the
amendment he had the honour to propose, while 217 voted for
the motion of the Honourable Member for Yorkshire, leaving a
majority of 54, the expressed sense of the House against the motion,
and in favour of the proposition which he had brought forward on behalf
of the Government. That proposition was afterwards embodied in a
Bill to which the House had given its assent, upon the prin.
ciple that to the extent to which the contract had been vio-
lated the Parliament would give a remedy; but that to proceed
to a greater extent would be to connnit an act of injustice.
The Bill founded upon that proposition embraced every remedy which
had occurred to the Government, or which had been suggested in that
House. Not a single division had taken place either upon the principle or
the details of the Bill, the Parliament thus broadly asserting that it
would be unjust, impolitic, and unwise to interfere with a so
lemn decision of the Parliament upon so important a question.
A division certainly slid take place in the Committee, but it
was upon a clause proposed by the Honourable Member for Ho.
triton to terminate the apprenticeship in the Island of Jamaica on
the Ist of August, because, as his argument was that the cases of
cruelty had been fully made out with respect to that Island.
Upon that occasion the Abolitionists again shewed their whole
strength, but were again defeated by a large majority. The Govern-
ment, their, had a right to inter, that after two solemn expressions of
the opinion of the House, the matter would not be seriously brought
before the House. The Bill having been passed, was at once sent
out to the West Indies, where, he had no doubt, it was in
action and beneficial operation. The Honourable Baronet opposite
gave notice that he would again submit the subject to Parliament on the
Ist of May, but it was afterwards postponed to the 22ild, a period
which rendered it utterly impossible to carry the intentions of
the Abolitionists into effect. Under these circumstances there was an
evident indifference on the part of this House to enter into a protrated
debate upon a proceeding which had been solemnly decided upon twice
within a few weeks. There was evidently a general impression throughout
the House that this question would not be seriously proceeded in, and this
resolution wasadopted not in a House of 488 Members, but in one only of
193. Had this been a question merely of domestic concern—had this been a
question which involved only some affairs effecting th s country, lie cer-
tainly should not have thought it necessary to invite the re considera-
tion of this question, with the view of clearing up any doubt on what
might attach to its real meaning. If the Hon. Baronet himself had
submitted to the House a practical measure founded on that
resolution, being the only means by which the negroes could
derive benefits therefrom, the decision of the House might have
been obtained on the motion for leave to introduce the Bill, or some of
its subsequent stages, and it would not have been necessary for Govern-
ment to originate any measure to remove that uncertainty which might
exist elsewhere, where the consequences of uncertainty might be
disastrous and ruinous. An explicit abandoom Int of any in-
tention to propose a Bill founded on that resolution would
have been an almost express avowal of the circumstances
under which the resolution was adopted. It would have been an ac-
knowledgment that the Hon. Baronet had no confidence in the majority
which fortuitous circumstances had thrown into his hand; and that con-
viction must have pressed on his mind, or he would not have delayed
the introduction of such a measure. But a course had been taken by the
lion. Baronet, looking at the result of which he could not shut his
eyes to the fact, that it was the best course to keep alive uncertainty
where uncertainty was the greatest evil that could exist. There was
another, and an equally important, consideration, as proving the neces-
sity of the interference of Parliament on the present occasion.
He alluded to tine declaration which had somewhat ostenta-
ti°us'Y been put forth, that intelligence was sent out immediately
to the colonies of the result of the division on the motion of the Hon.
Baronet, who, lie was glad to understand had not taken part in sending
the communication. But it was announced by the Noble and Learned
Lord, who presided recently at a public meeting upon this sub.
jest, and the statement was made as if for the purpose of showing
that no measure could proceed which was not founded upon that de.
cision—true communications sent out was that the House of Com-
mons decided in favour of immediate emancipation, and he did not wish
to put a harsh interpretation upon the conduct of those who,
he must say, however good their intentions, had practised a
delusion upon the negroes, which would lead them to eapee
what could not be effected without an Act of both Houses of Par-
liament. It was a duty from which this House he trusted would not
shrink, to let the negroes know what were the laws under which they
were to remain for sometime longer, however short that period was. His
objections to the continuance of the misapprehension on this subject
were derived from all the accounts which he had received from the
Colonies, and which convinced him that the most unfortunate effects
must follow if the misapprehensions were not removed, He knew, in-
eked, that there were a body of men in the Colonies whose conduct
entitled them to all praise—(Hear, hear)—he meant the Mission-
aries (as we understood) in connection with the Church of England.
Those men were using efforts to counteract the injudicious zeal of cer-
tain friends of the negroes, and were urging upon every loan to impress
upon the negro the necessity of obedience to the laws as long as they re-
mained in force. The Right Hon. Gentleman then read a document
signed by the Secretary of the Missionary Society, to the effect that every
effort should be used to induce the negroes to pay obedience to the laws.
They therefore urged on the real friends of the apprentices, whatever
might be their opinion of the system, to refrains from any tumultuous or
disorderly expressions of their dissatisfaction, and to press on them their
patient submission to the law, so long as it remained unaltered.
He attached the greatest weight to this letter; it was not only the
Wesleyan missionaries wino had so expressed themselves ; this very mail
had brought him accounts from one of the most active Baptist missiona-
ries. He believed they entertained the opinions which the Hon.
Baronet opposite entertained, but they were too holiest and too sincere
in th:_ir friendship to the negroes to foster any delusion in their minds,
or to lead them to entertain a false impression as to the proceedings of
Parliament in regard to them. At a meeting of 2,000 apprentices at
Salter's Hills St. James's, resolutions were unanimously adopted, that
the apprentices were willing to work for their masters so long as the
present law continued, although they would rather be free.—(Hear.)
the had also received a Colonial Newspaper by the same mail,
and which contained similar statements. What he had stated on a for-
mer occasion had been repeated at meetings, that the negroes were At for
emancipation. He would be the last man to retract any expression of credit
due to them, and he might add the unjust suffering to which they had
been exposed might in some degree enhance that credit, and he was sure
that there was not a Member of this or the other House who would refuse a
tribute of approbation to their conduct, which had been beyond all praise.
Those were not the only gentlemen of that persuasion who had
taken the course to which he had referred, for he found in the
same paper a report of several meetings in regard to education.
subsequently to one of those meetings it was stated on the following
Sunday that the Rev. Mr. Bluebell preached. to a numerous congregation
of negroes.ln that sermon he alluded to the remarks that had gone abroad.
He denied in explicit terms that they were correct, and guarded the
people against them. He explained the difference of the abolition law,
and told them that the responsible administration of the law was
placed in the hands of the officers of the Government, to whom
alone they were to look for protection and support.—(Hear.)
He enjoined them, therefore, when they heard reports with
reference to the question of a determination of apprenticeshi

to mention it to the spec:al magistrates. He stated that they had
a'ready borne half their apprenticeship, and nothing would give him
and his friends greater satisfaction than to know that they would
behave rhemselves well for the next two years. He told them not to
excite their feelings., and advised them to believe no report affect-
ing their interest other than what the Magistrates told them.—(Hear.)
Therefore it was that he looked with less apprehension at the hasty and
injurious, and if he was to go the length of the newspapers, he would say
criminal and wretched attempt to impose on the negroes, by declaring
that they werofrec. The Government had sent out circulars to tho. different
Governors of these Colonies, for the purpose of giving them more
authentic information as to the real state of the case, telling them to
persuade the people not by troops, which it had been falsely stated
had been tent to coerce them, but by those rguments and that reason
to which their growing intelligence had rendered them susceptible.
He would ask the Government to interpose and second the laudable
efforts of these mon, mare especially when the Hon. Baronet had
declared that it was not his intention to bring in any Bill during the
present Session of Parliament founded on these resolutions. Ho now
called upon the House to adhere to its former determination on the
subject. He asked them not to be scared by the fear of upholding
slavery. That question had been already settled. He would put out of
the question the intervening period between the present time and 1840,
and he would ask them was it worth while to keep alive a state of excite-
ment which could only inflict sorrow and punishment on those whom
the Hon. Baronet and his friends wished to serve ? He must say that
the view in which this question was placed before the country was not
a fair one—the abolition of slavery was kept out of view altogether.
The question was now between amelioration and abolition, as had been

represented—not between apprenticeship and slavery—the question was
now purely one of time, and by the indecision of the Hon. Baronet it had
now dwindled down to one-half the former period. He would ask them
whether it was worth while to agitate the question when the
energies of Parliament might be directed to a much better purpose—to
the amelioration of the apprentices' present condition, and the establish
ment of such a social system in the colonies as would secure them last-
ing prosperity ? Voluntary manumission was now taking place in many
of the colonies, and he must repeat his opinion that any direct legisla-
tion on the subject wou:d be highly injurious to its continuation or in-
crease. On the other hand, he thought the frequent expre.sion of opi-
nion in this country would tend to promote it. In Jamaica, although
things had not gone on in that island as well as could be wished, yet even
there Sir L. Smith, the Governor, had proposed to the House of Assem-
bly an Act for the purpose of carrying out more effectually the Abolition
Act of the Imperial Parliament, and that Act had been agreed to. It

was now passed and in operation, a fact which proved that the opinion of
his country had had its proper weight in the colonies.—(Hear.) He might
be charged with inconsistency in deprecating interference by the Impe-
rial Parliament, and at the same time encouraging it in the local Legis.
lature; but the difference was manifest ; the members of the local Le-
gislature possessed themselves the means of shortening the apprentice.
ship, while the Imperial Parliament would merely be wasting time in
forcing on a measure which must be founded on a vio!ation of national
faith. The second of theresolutions which he should have the honour
to propose would declare the opinion of the House that no means should
be omitted that could tend to secure to the negroes their full privileges
as secured by the Abolition Act, and went further to declare that the
anxie us attention of the House should be directed to their condition at
the time of the expiration of the apprenticeship—a period which he
held to be the most important subject for consideration. These were
facts of the greatest importance, which could not fail to present
themselves to the House, and to which the attention of Parliament
could be beneficially directed, and when the time should come the Go-
vernment would ask the House to concur in whatever measures might
be necessary for securing the permanent well-being' of the negro popu-
lation. Education was one subject of the greatest importance.—(Elear,
hear.) He had laid before the House at an early period of the Session
the report of the intelligent inspector of negro schools, in which was to
be found a detailed account of the state of education, and of the means
now in operation for a xtending it. The report for the Windward and
Leeward Islands had also arrived, and would when printed be laid on
the table. Another question was the criminal and civil discipline
and the proper and effectual administration of justice, all questions

to which the anxious attention of Government must be directed

and in which the assistance of Parliament would be required.
Thera was one other consideration to which he must allude, and on
which he could not better express the opinion of Government than by

quoting one of the dispatches of Lnrd Glenelg. That Noble Lord stated
that " it is the opinion of Government that the great and cardinal prin-
ciple of the law is that the period of apprenticeship should be succeeded
by freedom in the sense of the term applied to the other subjects of her
Majesty." This should be the basis of all legislation, and without
it no hope could be entertained of giving happiness to the colonies.
He would trouble the House with but one more observation,
and that was suggested by reading the speech of one of those itine-
rant orators—he did not mean the term offensively—who had been
addressing public meetings in different parts of the country. That
gentleman stated that a reason for being more anxious about
the question - was that its fate would have a powerful influence
on the continuance of slavery in the United States. Now he (Sir
G. Grey) quite agreed with Mr. Thompson on this point. He believed
that the eyes of many nations were at this moment fixed on the conduct
of England, on the great experiment now in progress in our colonies ;
and he believed that the successful result of that experiment would go
far to detet mine whether slavery would be abolished in the IJnitedStates,
or continued for an indefinite period. He believed that the faith of the
country was pledged alike to the negro anti the planter for the carrying
out of that experiment ; and he earnestly hoped that nothing might
be done which might obstruct its successful termination. He calk('
on the House to adhere to their former resolution, and not to foster
the delusion at present so industriously spread. He knew that in
recommending that course he was urging one which some I•Ion.
Members might find it difficult to follow, not from any opposi-
tion on their own impartial judgments, but from the persuasions
of those who were influenced by a mistaken sympathy. He had great
hopes that the division to-night would confirm that resolution, in which
case lie could assure the House they might calculate on the hearty co-
operation of the most influential West Indian proprietors. He had had
several communications with those gentlemen, and he could answer for
their cordial disposition to co-operate, to the fullest extent, in carrying
into effect the wishes and intentions of the Parliament and the coun.
try. Having so frequently trespassed on the House on this question,
and so fully expressed his views on former occasions, he was now unwil-
ling to enter into any very minute details, anti he would rest it on the
necessity there was of relieving the colonies from a state of uncertainty
which might be attended with very dangerous results. He asked the
House to carry those resolutions. He asked them in the fullest

confidence that that course would be most consistent with jus-
tice and good faith, and with the dictates of an enlightened and be-
nevolent humanity.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet
then moved the following resolutions :—" 1. That in order to prevent
the injurious consequences which may follow from the intentions of
Parliament being left in doubt, and in order to maintaia the peace and
welfare of the colonies, it is necessary to declare that, in the opinion of
this House, it is not advisable to adopt any proceeding for the purpose
of giving effect to the resolution of the 22,1 of May. 2. That this
House, at the same time, declares its opinion that no means should be
omitted which can tend to secure to the negro population of her Ma-
jesty's colonies the privileges to which they arc entitled under the Act
for the abolition of slavery, and under the Act for the amendment of
the Slavery Abolition Act ; and, further, that the anxious attention of
this House will be directed to the state and condition of the negro popu-
lation when the expiration of the term ofapprenticeship shall have en-
titled them to the full enjoyment of entire freedom."
The resolutions having been put to the House by the SPEAKER,
Sir EARDLEY WILMOT rose and addressed the House, but from
the low tone of voice in which he spoke was frequently inaudible in the
gallery. We understood him to say, that if there was ever an occasion
on which any Member of that House had to claim its indulgence, it was
now, having to strive against all the powers of eloquence and argument
of the Hon. Baronet the tinder Secretary to the Colonies ; but he would
endeavour to reply to some of them. First, with respect to party and
political feelings having been mixed up in this case, he most conscienti-
ously declared that political feelings had nothing to do with the question,
and so far as he was personally concerned, he most conscientiously said
that nothing but the desire to promote the national justice had induced
him to take the course which he had pursued—(Hear)--but having in
1833 declared his opinion that the proposed apprenticeship laws would
be quite contrary to the interests of the slaves, and that they ought to be
placed oil precisely the same footing with the English free labourer, he
had felt himself bound now to advocate (because of the negroes. In 1833
he had requested the House to rescind the vote which they had given
that twenty millions should be appropriated to the emancipation of the
slaves, and to adopt a sum of fifteen millions as the amount, wills a view
to securing the object which he then had, but in that he was unsuccess-
ful ; and having now been required by his own constituents to bring
forward this question, and having been required also to present a peti.
lion, lie had declared his intention to make a motion for the immediate
abolition of the system, which had been adopted. He had thought it
his duty to make that declaration, and nothing but illness would have
induced him to delay bringing forward the motion ; but indisposition
had precluded the possibility of his taking that course which he had in-
tended, and then the Hon. Member for Yorkshire had anticipated his
intention, and had introduced a proposition having a similar object to
the House. No sooner, however, had his health been restored than his
motion was again placed on the votes of the House for the Bth May.
Previously to that day, however, he found that an immense number
of petitions were in the course of preparation, and he therefore de
layed his motion until they should have been laid on the table of the
House. In answer. therefore, to the Honourable Baronet he begged
to state that that alone was the reason which had Induced
him to delay bringing forward his motion until the 22:1 of May. He
thought that there was no man in that House who would say that the
Government were taken at all at surprise on the 22d of May. The mo-
tion was for a long time on the books, and he must now express his as-
tonishment that after the very able speech of the Hon. Member for fen.
colts, after the question had been argued the other evening, no one was
found in the House ready to rise and to controvert the opinions which
he had expressed. There were many Hon. Members present who were
his opponents on this question, but all were silent. After that debate
had closed he never for a moment doubted what would be the result of
the division ; and he had to complain that the Noble Lord (Lord Joins
Russell), in his absence, had stated his intention to oppose any mea-
sure which he might propose to the House. That declaration cer-
tainly did startle him, and in consequence of it he was induced to be-
lieve it necessary not to rest on Isis own views alone, but to take the
opinion of other Gentlemen as to the course which he should pur-
sue. He did not, tor himself, doubt what should be done, but he
thought it better to ask those Gentlemen their opinion before he
should take any step on his osvn responsibility, and which might
involve them in the consequences of what might be deemed his
rashness. Having been called upon, therefore, be the Noble Lord to
state what mode of proceeding he intended to adopt, he on Thurs.
day said that he did not wish then to give an opinion, but that he would
wait until a few days had passed. Being pressed by the House, how-
ever, he stated on Friday that it was not his intention to take any steps
on the resolutions which had been agreed upon. The Noble Lord
however, stated also that the Government did not propose to call Upon
the House to annul those resolutions, and that he must say was the
point between them, because he thought that it was for the benefit of
the cause that the Government should adopt those proceedings best cal.
culated to secure its welfare, in preference to any proposition coming from
him, although, at the same time lie reserved to himself the right of in-
troduce any measure which might seem to him to be calculated to secure
the object which he had in view. The question between them, therefore,
was, not what svas to be done, but who was to do it ; and he thought it
was the duty of the Government to bring the Bill into the House en-
tirely to put aside and repeal the law as it now stood, and to do now in
1838 that which the Hon. Baronet opposite had said must be done ill
1840. Being of opinion, then, that the Government should have
performed this duty, and being certain also that the Government
would not allow the resolutions to remain On the books of the House,
it was his wish to force the Ministers to make some motion on the sub-
ject, anti then came the Hon. Baronet, and by the resolutions which he
now proposed he thought to satisfy the House. When the Noble Lord
first referred to the resolutions which were intended to be proposed, he
(Sir Eardley Wilmot) conceived that he had borrowed from him, but
it was clear that the interpretation which was put on his resolutions was
of a different character to that which he imagined they bore, the motion
before the House not being to annul those resolutions ; rna he must
point out to the Houee that if they adopted these resolutions they would
in effect stultify themselves, by suffering those which were already on
the books to remain undisturbed. The Honourable Baronet
!night say that they did not mean to rescind those reso-
lutions, but they would allow them to stand. But why
should they allow them to stand if they did not intend to act
upon them 7 They might by a new proposition erase these from the
journals of the House, but they could never blot these out from the
hearts of the people, and if they attempted to do so they would inflict
on them a wound which they could not cure or remove.—(Hear, hear.)
The question now before the House, however, was, not whether the ap.
prenticeship system should be abolished, but whether the House would
wish to rescind those resolutions which they had allowed to pass. He
knew what might be said with reference to the adopting a measure one
day and rescindin it the next, but there were abundance of precedents
g

for such a course, and If the House would only look bask they wonld
find that questions had been frequently so dealt with. They might re-
member the motion of the lion and Ll artmed Member for Dublin in reis r-
el:cc to the Irish Church, which was agreed to, but after a few days wan
rescinded ; and they might also call to recollection the motion of an
Honourable Member on the subject of the malt tax, which, after
having been carried on Friday, was rescinded on the following Tues-
day. Now, as to the resolutions already adopted, the Honour-
able Baronet had said that the House was at liberty to decide one"
the question one way or the other; but he totally denied that
the motion of the 29th of alarcls was the same in terms as
that of the eed of May. On the .2d of May he called en
the House for the aleeition of negro apprenticeship and the
House having divided, the resolution was carried; and what
was now the object of the Honourable Baronet ? In order to make.
up the difference between the two sets of resolutions which had
bsen submitted to the House—the one passive, the other active—he
brought forward another set, which was neuter ; to that the House W.s.
to have three sets of resolutions on this subject, and the next
' might bring news like that which yesterday came from Barbadoes,
csll-
ing upon the Government to assist them in carrying into effect the views
which the planters might entertain, and then there must be another
fresh resolution, in order that the Honorable Baronet might take soule
steps in obedience to their desires ; so that there must be four resold'
tions, north, south, cast, and west, on the four points of the weather-
cock, to undo everything that was done.—(A laugh.) There was aue-
thee point to which he would refer, and that was the public meetings
which had been held ; and he begged to say that he had studiously avoided
attending any meetings, that he had only been at one, and that subse-
quently to his bringing his motion forward, while he had been only once
at Exeter Hall, and then he presided as chairman. He, however, •":":1
almost invariably declined attending meetings, because he Would
not have it thrown in his teeth, that he did anything apart
from his own feelings as an independent Member of Far:
liament. In that character alone did he act, and the responsibility of all
the measures that he brought forwa:d rested on himself alone.
regard to the allegation that he had not given an answer to the Noble
Lord until after the resolutions had been agreed to at a public meeting,
he must say that he was quite ignorant of the intention to hold such 3
meeting, or to propose such resolutions, and all he had heard of it waa
from a gentleman who said to him, " What do you think ? There 113:
been a flare-up between Mr. Handley and Lord Brougham !"---s(•'
laugh.) He had no doubt that a Bill ought to be brought in at ounce,
and he had never expressed his intention to give up the subject Ill"
this Session, but he had said that lie would reserve himself for oth'r.
circumstances. Those circumstances had now occurred, and lie innst
say, that if these resolutions were negatived, and the amendment
which he intended to propose should be carried, he would be ready
immediately to introduce a Bill, and its provisions would be to carry out
the resolution of the 22d of May, including all those clauses necessary
for the security of the negro and of the master, as well as for the safety
of the West Indies generally, placing the negroes in the pcsitie,3
of the free labourers of England ; and if, on the contrary,
amendment should be negatived, he was determined to do all in his
power to carry out the opinions expressed in those resolutions. Titer;
was only one other remark with which he would trouble the House, and
that was with regard to the information being conveyed to the West In-
dies of the proceedings of the etild of May, and he hoped that the Hon'
,i Baronet would do him the justice to say that his only object was to sv
cure for the slaves that justice only to which they were entitled, and
that he would take no means which could be considered as improper i 3
his endeavours to procure that object. He was not a party, nor had he
consented in any way to the information being conveyed out to the colo-
nies; and if his advice been asked upon the subject, he must say that,
he should have expressed his opinion that nothing should be done whie"
would tend to excite the negroes,or give them hopes which there were "et
grounds to suppose would be realized. Having offered these observa-
tions to the House, he would beg to propose an amendment to the re'?"
lotion of the Hon. Baronet. It was—l` That it is the opinion of thi4.,
House that the resolution passed on the 9.2 d of May should be carried
into effect, by means of a legislative enactment, in order to provide
mode of securing the security of the colonies, and to promote the v"
fare and good conduct of the negro population, and to obtain for tea
the full enjoyment of their liberty."
Mr. VILLIERS did not undervalue the Slavery Abolition .Ante'
meta Act, but he doubted whether it was calculated to carry the benevt
lent intentions of its framers into effect. If the same system of mat"
treatment with respect to the labourers which had been practised since
the passing of the Abolition Act were to be continued for two Yell •
longer the worst consequences were to be expected. The intention °
the House with respect to the Abolition Act could not be carried int 9
effect, for if the Justices created under the Act had the will they were
deficient in the power of doing so. In mercy even to the apprenticed.
themselves they could not inflict the fines on those proprietors who ha
violated the law.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the amentlmea't ur
the Abolition Act, it rather served to irritate than to soothe the
the
irritation which previously existed between the apprentices and
et
proprietors, at the same time that its provisions could never be carTiy.
into effect. It had only introduced new elements of discord, esPeel3. ,e
in that provision which gave to the apprentice the pecuniary penaltytj,
fueled on the master. Again, the intercourse which necessarily toob
place between the apprentices who are bound until 1840 and those 'les,
are to be emancipated in August must tend to make the former test,,,,
and discontented. Immediate emancipation would alter the rela'',e
position of the proprietors and the apprentices, and would crzAtilci
between them that sense of mutual dependence by which alt inanj"o
were so much influenced. It was not mere benevolence which peornsPof
the proprietors of Antigua to emancipate their slaves, but a sene -„iie
their own interest. They found that only one-third of the slave
was available, and by emancipation they gained the other two-tila
It had been deliberated in Barbadoes about two months ago whetwa,
advantage would not accrue from immediate emancipation, and ltrrieell
probable that before another month elapsed the plan would be ee'
into execution.—(Hear, hear.) There were two principles admitted
the Abolition Act :—First, that if the apprentice showed bin"or to
be aggrieved by the master he should be entitled to immediate en:roil-
pation, and next. that where the compact was found to operateaae the
cushy towards the negro population their happiness should be mad
primary consideration. The principle of the Bill was to serve thenio that
and those who opposed immediate emancipation were bound t°
it would operate injuriously towards the apprentices.
; re of the
Mr. BARRON felt that lie was taking the unpopular stele er►
question, but, were it so, he would not shrink from the fulfilment .•,4
contract, to the fulfilment of which the House was pledged by mole
the
bond than a solemn Act of the Legislature. The agreement with
slave proprietors was, that the former should give freedom to their
slaves in 1840; and for this they received an equivalent, partly' t"
money and partly in the continued service of the slaves as apprentices-
-(Hear, hear.) lle felt the contract to be a most solemn one, arid.
acting conscientiously upon that feeling, it was his solemn duty N,
oppose any re.opening of a question which had been so fully concluel'eff,
A man of great talents in another place had endeavoured to excite the'
bad passions of the country upon this question, for the purpose of creat-
ing an ill feeling against the friends with whom he had formerly acted-
It was much to be regretted that that Noble and Learned Lord had used
his great and admitted talents in such a way. Wiwi the NoVe
and Learned Lord denounced the Members of that House. for
the conscientious and constitutional discharge of their doey, Ije
(Mr. Barron) would not hesitate to say that such coml./let Ica:
both unconstitutional and disgraceful.—(Hear, hear.) The -Noble 3n".
Learned Lord ought to have been aware limit his advice would not
followed by any party in either House. Ile must have beep, aware than
the public would not give credit for purity of motive to so rapid a trait;
I sition from one extremity to another, and the Members of that
could well affsrd to endure the taunts of a man, however talented, wu
haul thus run round all the points of the political compass. Such at,
l
tacks would pass by them as the idle wind, which they regarded not, and
,0
he would tell the Noble and Learned Lord from his place in tl'ch
House, that for himself he despised both his taunts a"
his threats. The Noble end Learned Lord had followed. the tide of P°l;l,ie
larity, and not argued upon principle, if principle he had army.soices,
had no personal interest in the question; on the contrary, the Part but he took would be displeasing to a portion of his constituents, ,
should be unworthy of a seati n that House if he permittedsuets
consideration to influence his conscientious opinion. for
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON having voted with the Hon. Menthe!.
Warwickshire would of course oppose the proposition of the 1-o¢r
Baronet opposite. Slavery under any modification could be no, matt
of compact between any two parties, more especially when a tisird PaTrti,Y;
and the party most of all interested, had not been consueted. l„er
Hon. Gentleman had admitted that the proprietors vie'eated the
~,f
which formed the basis of the alleges! compact, and added that if
tte"t,,t
did not alter their conduct he would on some future teay aclvocate4. tee
emancipation. If the proprietors had not fulfilled. their part 9s--
contract how could they expect that this country would observe "
(Hear, hear.) erid
Mr. HUTTON thought it would be better both for the master'
the apprentices to allow the given time to expire, and let the sePa'-' e
1"
be as amicable as possible.
Sir CHARLES GREY denied the position of the Hon and r '—,,a,salse
Member for Bandon, who argued first that it was impossible t° ,4
personal liberty a subject of compact, and neeet that those
most were parties to the compact so made. Now such coristracts:.___
been recognised over and over again by the statutes of the real.nwo
(No, no, from Mr. O'Connell.) No Was it possible that then here
another lawyer in the House who could make such an assert:son- efir
were fifty statutes on the books recognising property in. slaves' oat
was at a loss to discover the reasons of the Hon. Member fist. Band°lliievir
was at a loss to conceive how any lawyer in the Haase could, peg'
have maintained such an argument. lie considered it far more it or
vial for the negro population that the law should be rataintained• and
present existed. On the Ist of August, ISK4B, forty th,° that
non-predial slaves would be liberated, and he though'
tedto
vacillating conduct on the part of the Legislature might be eal3,e Ow
foment insurrection. Let not this great experiments—Streit a °II the
not on the pages of history—be frustrated by any plan similar .e°ool.ll
one proposed by the party opposite. The horrors of st. Dorning° t die
to be a lesson, and the people ought not to be allowed to think tii3 ana
House would unsay one week that which it said the Week before'
so lose the respect of the country,
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON exoleinel
Mr. WA RD said that lime lesst the proceeded upon the veld
tion the better. Es:petience had taught them that; but if it 0°1'1;001;
interest
acted upon its any case this was the case. Resolutions never eision
operate with the effect of law, and in this case he thought the "e-satale
of the Government was come to most unhappily. In 1840 the the
difficulties would arise that would arise now, and the feeling.fl tivf
country demanded that the resolution should be followed by a legl-eiliale
enactment. No man more than himself would oppose the jilt' 4,7'4
emancipation, if by immediate emancipation it was to be unlereo"
that it should be effected without the necessary attention to the in
of all grades of society in the colonies. sisoen,
Mr. E. ELLICE thought that the law might be altered, eanehet''
even with good faith, but which was not the question in view-
iTiy 411°-
not be productiue of any benefit, but he thought if there were I"'d pre-
the t°
tion to decide it would be one more of compensation than 0"f ilied. re.
the negro population. When he looked at the subject which rs
„;ae;
cluced so much excitement—he would not say clamour—for he ed
thised with the feeling, and thought the Legislature was bound ptiocurtie•
to the feeling out of doors—he could not but contemplate its' able
He would remove the last traces and obliterate the most abTh.
system that ever disgraced society. He would not aPP the
offensive epithet to those to opposed the settlement be bail
question as it was originally intended to be settled, be atotddi
long before looked at the difficulties of time case, and i,,,,tendet.
have them take into consideration the difficulties to he c" re."'
with by those whose duty it was to mature the'original Tuea-ciu,
(Hear.) The social state of the West Indies must be collai•dereset,
laws had had to be framed for the maintenance of the lame, the indigt'es
the sick, such; as civilized society was already provided with hYel: feurmil
lie institutions. At the expiration of the period if tire apiTeentl cottes4
he had been employed by a hard task-master, as a matter of _ _lr
if an able.bodied man, he would not work for that
changes were not easily to be provided for. A vagrancy la‘c ha
of
have to be also passed, which was not easily done when th
s were it
of the people of twenty colonies were to be consulted. Law-
ev only.
made so readily. Besides which they were not British coloni:b.._t,
but Dutch, Spanish, and French ; the peculiarities of time inhabitants
of of all must be considered. There might be no difficulty Jamaica
Havannah, but it would be different in other colonies. In and
it was said that they were almost in a state of bankruptcy
our-
when that was the case, it was evident that the question °f tier
rency would have to be looked to. At present in Jamaica
t.
alte" had no
means of making small payments, and any sudden
',ether
would produce disorder ; and Its would ask his iron, Friend wo
master;
white
i
two years were too long a time to provide for the legislation
of
s but lag
subjects ? He had told his Hon. Friend of these difficulties,
should now come to the most material 'of all. This was to be fell
al in
ttil:seychea.riastcetder,
aasndincosorampeoscitoiloonnioesf, timaendretr,ereirsetnetraati
absenceinstitutionsas
n
e r ,
fie"
How would the " short Bill" of the Honourable Baronet deal with- then,'
in Jamaica for instance, where there was a local legislature •spr_s_t%
themselves to, and acting in direct contempt of, the feelings °f
374
people of this country, the intentions of the Imperial Parliament, people
the instructions of time Government ?..--(Hear, hear.) The If ott*
c
i.

C...eurn.rnone n-otTeTalled on to pass all local measures, and yet that
17_idtie the cese if the local legislatures were to he abolished. If it sat
ntd 1840 it would not be competent to deal with all that was neces-
sary in that
respect. He (Mr. Ellice) would long since have had
„c
geslative functions taken from these local assemblies, but dist
si,aw the colonies were not in a lit state for it. If it was not fit to de-
1-wart, e:hein of the power of self.governnsent then, how much less so
ti„ not noes, when the majority of the population, without instruc-
„,_llsiand without intelligence, heretofore slaves, were about to be
e'f'agorde in the same position as
.their former masters, with the power
a "ling them, too, placed in their hands by their 'lumbers ? • Such
lricithpliearse ftatoeof things should be looked to wit h great apprehension.
exciting the public mind in this country and the
the nes those who slid so and those who did not, the House and
soutelmbhc, all laid their hearts and therr hands together to devise
. Perfect system for the extinction of slavery all through the
British dominions, a great deal more would he effected for the
peace of th
tere,4 f colonies, the benefit of soeiety at large, and the in-
effected the negroes themselves, than could possib'y be now
We by the means which were taken for that purpose. If this
Therenot done he dreaded the result, and had no hope of the future.
ftutn
„was one good, however, which the House had a right to hope
ass.. !nese discussion's; that was, the 'masters of apprentices must now
,:tisfied that the people of England were in earliest, and that no con-
f.','ertathion would induce them to allow a: vestige of slavery to exist
Bus the
c Period fixed for its final extinction by the Imperial Parliament.
sees ; Weold, in his opinion, be certainly much better to give the colo-
eud i'n opportunity of assisting, of their own accord, to arrive at that
eutiuntaa State of good f. cling with this country. 'Fader all the cir-
ino nees, lie hoped the House would have no heSitation in agree-
to the resolution of his Hon. Friend the Under Secretary of State
r the Colonic.
s.
Sir R. ir
the TT • INGLIS should vote for the motion of the Hon. Baronet
aiti-noer Secretary of the Colonies, though he did not altogether agree
it, because. it involved a lesser evil then the amendment of the
ties•wind
the Member for Warwickshire; and as the vote he should
state add not be by any means popular out of doors, he was anxious to
tes7cthe reason why he saw fit to incur the responsibily. The
no "coal ale,
w which he took of the question, was, that there was
813,..trIpact whatever entered into with the West Indian proprietor of
in
the'_, or with the local Legislatures, on the subject of slave labour,
aBtitetAct of 1833. By that Act the imperial Parliament took upon
about. o decide the question of slavery, and the compensation for its
whiel.al, solely on its own authority—a question which no Parliament
was not buoyed up by the e:scitement of the Reform Bill could
ever
e attempted, and which no local Legislature would have enter-
/.l,;(ed, tmless under the Government of his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley.)
an eSir Po Inglis) differed, he regretted to say, altogether from his Hon.
a; Learned Friend the Member for Bandon Bridge, for he could never
ee with him that the law recognised no property in human flesh. It
a as now two centuries ton late to make that assertion. That such
aid slate. of things was highly ohjectionable Ire (Sir Robert Inglis)
tut not mean for a moment to deny ; -but, crowded as the sta-
aeue,4°ks were with laws on this subject, lie thought no one could
tuut'are to say that it was not a matter of legislation. As regarded the
ii'm of the lion. Baronet the Under-Secretary of State for the Colo-
it,Bl he (Sir It. Inglis) could not, as ins had stated, altogether concur in
hough he should give it his support as the lesser of two evils. It
'ionot meet the difficulty in which the House was placed by the reso-
stateninf the Hon. Baronet the Member for Warwickshire. The most
s
nanlike course for the Government to have pursued would be to
rescind that
net, resolution altogether.—(Hear, hear.) Tfle. counter-resolu-
.ii proposed did not deal with the difficulty.
gave ‘,',"N" and Mr. O'CONNELL. rose at the same time, but the latter
vnajo",e,ingly at a suggestion from the former Hon. Member.
tlhlellib'sse-r—covaioEnsS—ofsimr,yl certainly rise with some reluctance to reply to
Right Hon. Friend the Me nber for Coventry.
ante -11,°.,n,: „Gentleman has asked the Hon. Baronet who introduced this
adoeniL"'nt, why lie did ,not introduce a Bill founded on the resolution
verelinassed the House the other night ? The answer is, that if Ire
her to
introduce a Bill, that Bill would inevitably, by the opposition
MaiestY's Government, be defeated ; and therefore the only
that he
!b
nuance4o,,unteavcni
johaas is that of obtaining from Parliament a recognition
of another resolution passed against this measure,
thins(ll Y that means inducing the Government to undertake that winch he
thiukAr could net undertake with any chance of success. Therefore I
am the answer that must be given by the Hon. Baronet is very clear,
susathat s, that the Hon. Baronet does not introduce a Dill because
Is introduced by him would be a total failure, whilst, if it
effect nnroduced by her Majesty's Government, it would be carried into
(lase,' (Hear, hear.) Now I think that that perhaps will be consi-
400;'uti,n. answer insome degree to the enquiry why the Hon. Baronet
sat' that
introduce a Bill. But, then, the Right Hon. Gentleman has
atio, dt there would be great danger in any measure by which emanci.
that should be given to the negro, and by which there should be
PlatettCha,?ge in society in the West Indies which is contem.
halo, "Y this measure. I am old enough to remember
tthonv.iAn_gce.
trade;
this argument used against the abolition of
and I apprehend that whoever has read that able and
Ii o'ing Publication issued by the Marquis of Sligo, will remember
apB,7n 'II his Lordship ridicules that argument. Lord Sligo, who, per.
no, 44ibetter acquainted with colonial society than almost any man in
day 0216 e, says we were first told that the negroes would all rise on the
0,4
t 0 which they were liberated ; but did they rise? No—they rose
Worsai wgrship tin ir God—they went to ,he temples, •and they offered
itas to that benefactor who had given them this great good. Then
as said, I,lOEt they deferred rising till Christmas—at the Christmas holidays
tasta.-ssu Hr, dly they would rise and cut the throats of the white inhabi.
joy, e asks, dielthey rise at Christmas ? and replies, No, they en-
-4,4
otheir festival with great innocence, with great hilarity, and as free_
call it tight to enjoy it. But this apprehension of danger is, I will not
relieve a bugbear,—but it is rather a chimerical apprehension. I don't
Whigs'
the least danger would arise from your giving liberty to the
Whe're' and wily do I say so ? I say it on the test of ex.perience, because
heal ver You have made a concessions to them, it has at all times
that received with gratitude, and disappointed the apprehension
je- WaS entertained ; and therefore, I think, I am justified ins
rig that the fears expressed by my Bight Hon. Friend, and some other
I.B.inhers of the House, iswholly without foundation. The Honourable
thlriber for Sheffield has very justly observed, that co-ordinately with
is resolution for the extinction of slavery, you are to take measures to
b-'',itre the peace and tranquillity of the calornies; that therefore if you
st the resolution of the Hon. Baronet, you come to the determination
a,
1, away with that apprehension that is so wrongly entertained. But
hea certain degree he has put to the test the sincerity of these appre.
'aYs h'si''ns by calling upon you to do an act of national justice. But shell,
naahe'Y Right Hon. Friend, there Is another circumstance on which you
nnseti to be on your guard. He says (and I am surprised to hear a corn.
haak,4lklan say so) the people of Jamaica are almost all in a state. of
I u .°PtcY and insolvency —(No)— well, then, the finances of Jamaica.
sts,e-PP°so the finances of Jamaica must depend very much on the state
qe,"2e funds of those who supply those finances, and if they are in that
it'eciated state, it will only be necessary to call for those supplies which
;tho retrieve them. But it is not our fault that they are in that state.
ahr_ 'e Paid their share of the twenty millions of money, and their
It ' or private finances ought not to be in Alne situation that
ght Hon. Friend bas described, and therefore I apprehend that the
ranger on that ground is not ;ery imminent. Well, then, he says,
eY will want Poor Laws, if they have liberty. Why, the people of
atlllrelanu‘svant Poor Laws, and yet they have liberty. Andbe says., they
d° Want ragrantlaws. But cannot vagrant laws be supplied at the tune of
ranting emancipation, if Government are disposed to take the measure up
good earnest ? But it is said that during the present Session
3',,e0 have not tiare,,,as am told there is an intention to settle questions
have been vets much agitated, durig the very short time that re_
'tams of this Session of Parliament ; and those are the questions of the
Irish church and Irish Corporations; and if we can have these two dif-
ficult questions settled, I do not know why we should apprehend that
there is not sufficient time to settle the question that relates to giving
emancipation to the apprenticed negro. I should really conceive there
is time enough to accomplish this object, and I do not know why Go.
‘'erninent should not address themselves to that subject. But there is
440ther question that I wish to press very much on the consi:leratiou
the }louse. My Hon. Friend says that two years are insufficient to ac.
ti •
tie, • o st this object for providing those laws that are necessary when
"" state of society is changed. I wish to ask her Majesty's Govern.
meat what has been done during the four years which have already
passed s
r—What has been done.since the year 1833 ? Why have not these
It !,ures been proceeding ? Because we knew that this time was to copse.
ti is a reproach on the Government to say there has not been sufficient
u'e to make these preparations. If they are not
notecmete, there
tinght ta have been some advances made towards them four years
ta'eaut ibave passed. My Right Hon. Friend says, what slid you recoils-
to be done in the Report of the Committee for inquiry into the
50,",:',7 of the apprenticeship system, of which you were a Member ?
'" not shrink from giving an answer to that question.—(Cheers.) I
tee
the Hon. Member for Newark is cheering that avowal. He
stater'
‘ °n a former occasion what the Committee did, but only partially.
"'lll state what they did more fully, and more candidly and explicitly,
a°, (.817 House than he did.—( Hear, hear) I will say upon this sujecht,
ag: .1a: been brought under my attention, that I was one of thosehat who
pat.ete.e .0 the Report of the Select Committee of 1836, and in t
arNi:as stated distinctly that it was inexpedient to disturb the
Vaate Ments that had been made with respect to the West India
,t4s, as to the apprenticeship system, and it was also stated that it
-e'irable to postpone legislation.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") But
n there ;8 a matter connected with that subject that ought to be
stun
under the considerations of the HOuse, and it is this—that the
Itninnittee gave seven recommendations to the Government for the re-
atte4i" of the colonies and not one of thnse recommendations has been
aristnided to.--(Hear, hear.) I say there were seven recommendations,
was - arn Prepared to state what those recommendations were. The first
Nlow, tliat there should be more reciprocity with respect to the penalties.
(Ileu'r I beg to know whether that reciprocity has been Established.—
tin liear.) As far as I know, it was only embodied in Lord Gismelg's
to. ''Ski 8.4,1..cb was brought forward two years after our report was agreed
,4t h.na fide reciprocity? Would not, in the mean time, on
? Has it not been owing to this neglect that this agitation
failritten ? What is the next complaint ? That there was a scant of
gore constituted tribunals, in order to apportion the value of the no.
busesBY who wished to be emancipated. Have these tribunals been esta-
ed
ssia ? or, if they have, are they not of very recent date? It was next
Who' `flat attention ought' to be given to the special magistrates. Now,
line:dver is aware of the situation in which the Special Magostratestarel
""sta-,k,ne'ws they have not had the protection they ought to have rai
t;'-`t has been iusittlicient—that they had been placed in situations
•nually where impartiality was impossible, and that they frequent y
(ilie'sttifrent the table of the planter to the judicial Bench, to decide
that .I}?,n,' ''ending between the planter and the slave. Next, it was said
the -cc was a want of proper attention to the provision grounds of
l'llena-i4rn• That is a coirplaint that has remained to the present day.
hav have been put upon a system by which, as the negroes say, they
the teen defrauded of almost the only d i
ay cf the week n which
'.'s,,antight to have the opportunity of cultivating those
provision
grounds, and the consequence is,
,dthaatretqhueiteprilluoffion.
tier, hare gone wholly into dilipidation, an
I'lle'ts'or the production of what is necessary for their. support.
the song of these resolutions complained of a want of protection against
feta -Qgginit of females Now I am bound to say that the. flogglng of
-'4oes (mg oi the greatest abuses which has been complained
after
Conaj?ntinued up to the present day. Shall it be said that htlies
\Thie-t?',ttee has given these cogent recommendations to Parliament,
naeu have been wholly neglected, that the House shall be now called
?
that .to adhere to the principle upon which this report was founded
slat, 't shall be tow said that the apprenticeship system was not to be
'Oers l'e*Bo e(lafter all the recommendations for which their stability was
depend have been disregarded ?—(Hear, hear.) 'Thesixtsohts::
SW, I-2 was, a want of well-defined marriage law for the negroes.
Colon." 0014 ask my Right Hon. Friend, the Under Secretary for the
the Biole‘sr whether tine subject has not been pressed upon the
.attentionvaneotf
hive, 8, erninent for, the last two years—and whether a promise
‘th aeut h ntat attention would be paid to it—and whether, up to the pre
;are Mir, the negroes are not in such a situation that half the marriages
or 4,,t° s°lenthised that the parties do not know whether they are legal
--eat' and that many cf the children are in a dubious state of legitimacy?
lat"ts
operZas
th__;ear,
r, hear.) Sir, I say, that is not a state in which
ought to be placed ? Very far from it. The
tauts the recommendations of the Committee is, a want of
Pas,ettetten to children under six years of age at the time this law was
children I believe that protection has never been extended to these
I maintain n a fair or satisfactory manner ; and if such has been the case,
'liar that I have established the proposition I set out with, and
14,8 been
not one of the seven recommendations of the Committee
hots and eoltiplied with, and the consequence is; that all the dissatisfac-
out
oarnd discontent that have arisen throughout this country, both in and
e, the House, has been owing to this circumstance.—(Cheers.)
Sae I am inclined to press the matter somewhat further—l.say that
slearen \nb'e Lord, the Member fur North Lancashire, has been in some
ik° to blame—sand here, let me observe, that I by no means wish
tairi''a,ervalue his services—l fully appreciate those services in obtaining
hew
tie ntnroission of these unhappy men, and no language can express
vsaiebutch it e friends of humanity owe him, and the Government with
howev vas connected, on that account.—(Hear, hear.) I think,
Anna ter. ti at after the passing of the Act, there was a want of atten-
°wards the interests of the negroes, whirls ought to have been

paid on his part, when he suffered the compensation money to slip
through his hands, and go into the pockets of the planters, before he
had made arrangements to guarantee the fulfilment of the conditions
for which that compensation was paid. He was bound by the Act of
Parliament to obtain from them a sufficient guarantee that the condi-
tions of the compact would be strictly complied with. In reality, none
of.those conditions have been complied with up td she present hour;
and if the Noble Lord instead of having been carried away by the eae
cess of his liberality, and his confiding spirit, had kept back the
21,000,0001., and had only paid it where the planters
were fairly entitled to it, the question we are now discussing in all proba.
bility would never have arisen. Now I would beg to ask the Noble
Lord if he will have an opportunity of giving me a reply in the course of
the evening, whether that adequate and sufficient guarantee was given,
on the part of the planters, that the Imperial Act required ? From the
best attention I have been able to give to the sulject, I have been led to
conclude that such has not,been the case. Sir, I wish now to refer to the
provisions of the Act itself, for the abolition of slavery, and I shall
trouble the House with one of its provisions.—[The Hon. Member
here referred to the Act, but finding some difficulty in making out the
clause to which he wished to refer, Lord Stanley crossed from the oppo_
site side of the House and handed him the copy of the Act to which
he had been referring.] Mr. Baines then proceeded to read the clause
as fellows,—" And be it further enacted, that, subject to the obliga-
tions imposed by this Act, or to be imposed by any such Act or General
Assembly, or Ordinance, or Order in Council, as hereinafter mentioned
upon such apprenticed labourers as aforesaid, all and every the persons
who on the said Ist day of August, 1834, shall be holden in slavery within
any such British Colony as aforesaid, shall upon and from and after
the said Ist day of August, 1834, become and be to all intents and pur-
poses free, and discharged of and from all manner of slavery, and shall
be absolutely ar•.d for ever manumitted ; and that the children there-
after to be born to any such persons, and the offspring of such chil-
dren, shall in I.ke manner be free from their birth : and that front and
after the said ISth day of August, 1835, slavery shall be and is hereby
utterly and for ever abolished, and declared unlawful throughout the
British colonies, plantations, and possessions abroad."

Sir, having stated to the House what are the provisions of the Act, I
shall now refer to the commentary made by the Noble Lord upon that
Act. The Noble Lord explicitly stated (thinking that the provisions
might not be sufficiently clear) what the Act really meant, or rather
what was meant, to be enacted. Before the Act had passed into law,
and after the Bill had been introduced to the house the Noble Lord
said :—" I propose, then, that every slave on the passing of this Act,
shall forthwith have the power of claiming to be put in a situation
in which he shall enjoy all the privileges of a free man." In what
he shall feel no taint of his servile condition—in which he
shall be freed from the atrocious system of irresponsible corporeal punish.
ment—in which he shall have the full enjoyment of his domestic ties—
in which he shall not be compelled to see those who are nearest and
dearest to him insulted by punishment, or liable to degradation—
in which he shall enjoy every right and every .privilege of a
free man, subject to this restriction, and this restriction only—that he
shall for a certain time remain under contract to labour industriously in
the service of his present owner, but his then employer."—(Hear.)
Sir, Its inflow ask the Noble Lord and the House, whether the negro does
enjoy " all the privileges of a frets man ?"—I will ask the House
whether he has not been subjected to imprisonment at the pleasure
of the planter—whether he has not been subjected to punishment at the
will of the overseer, without having had that trial to which he was
justly and legally entitled ?—(Hear, hear.) Either such has been the
case, or all the statements which have been put forward on the subject
are grossly erroneous. But I will to ask the House further, has the
negro felt " no taint of his servile condition ?"—has he not every hour
of his labour, and even when at rest, been subject to that cruelty and op-
pression which has very properly been termed " servile," because it
was not thrown by, and was not such as a free labourer would have sub.
mitted to ? DJ we not find by the returns sent home to this country
by the special magistrates, that millions of stripes have been inflicted
upon these unhappy men ; and has not the infamous system of flogging
females been proved upon the most camp e e and irrefragable
eyidcnce? and has it not been admitted that the Act has been
violated in the most shameful manner ?—(Hear, I ear.) Then it
has been said that the negro would be no los g r subjected to see
his nearest and dearest relaticns placed in degrade.l or dishonourable
situations, but I would ask if females are not, even to this very day, ac-
cording to the testimony of Lord Sligo, for the most trifling offences,
yoked to carts in the streets, chained to persons of the most degraded
and abandoned habits, and placed in situations themost vile and revolt-
ing to which a female could be subjected ?—And whether the morals
and cha-acters of the young females are not frequently contaminated,
and the manners of the mothers endangered by this most improper and
uef sling conduct? Sir, I appeal to the House, and I would ask is that
enjoying the rights of a free man ? Is that enjoying the liberty of a free
man P Is that seeing his relations no longer exposed to degradation and
insult ? I put these questions fairly to the House, and I repeat that in
all these cases there has been a gross violation of the contract.—(Hear
and cheers.) It has been asserted that we are the advocates for a
violation of the contract, but I tell you that ihose who have com-
mitted a violation of the contract are the parties who after
having given these solemn pledges, now subject the apprentices to this
degradation and these unwarrantable punishments, which has excited
the ii.dignation of every honourable and humane man in the empire.
There have been unbounded proofs of the docility and of the kind dis•
position of the negroes; and yet these oppressed people are to be treated
in the manner I have described, and you marvel because they complain.
Is it not very natural that they should complain, and that their friends
should complain for them ? I hear it said that those who create
this excitation are labouring under a delusion of mind, and of
too warm and ardent feelings. I dont wonder at it, but why is it ? it
is because the negroes have not been properly treated—it is because
they have been treated unkindly and ungenerously; and is there any-
thing in which a negro can be more unkindly treated than in the article
of food. Now I come to the case of British Guiana—
and I beg to ask the Hon. Member for Newark (Mr. Gladstone)
if it is not within his knowledge, that there was an order
in Council issued by Sir George Murray, after a strict intestigation had
been made into the wants of the negroes, and after he had ascertained
what was the reasonable food that ought to be awarded to them, by
which it was ordered the negro should have 21 pints of farinaceous food
per day ? [We believe Mr. Gladstone here expressed dissent.] Does
the Honourable Gentleman say no ? Why—l don't happen to have the
Order in Council wills me, but I believe he will find there is not the
least doubt of it. I will put another question—Has not the negro, who
was allowed twenty-one pints of flour before the abolition of slavery
been restricted to ten pints since? Does he believe that? I shall he
in a situation to prove it most incontestibly, that since the passing of the
Act for the abolition of slavery (whatever might have been the
quantity_before) lie has only received ten pints weekly. When the
Hon. Gentleman opposite seems to think my statement is not true, I
should be in some little doubt myself as to the accuracy of it ; but I
have the statement here copied, and I have no doubt accurately, and it
stands thus—that according to the Order in Council issued in 1531,
while Sir George Murray was in the Colonial Office, negroes were
to be allowed 21 pints of meal a day, and also seven herrings, in
additicn to this; and since the year 1834, their allowance has
only been ten pints of flour, 3 lbs. of salt cod fish, and half a pound of
silt; making a difference of one-half of the whole quantity. Was it
not natural that the negro should complain of this, that when he was
in a state of what is called liberty, he should have only one-half the
quantity of food he had when in slavery! That is the complaint that has
been continually made, and it is made up to the present hour. Within
the last month there has been an Order in Council issued, by which it is
declared that the negro shall have either seventy plaintains, or that he
shall have what is equal to twenty-one pints of flour. I beg to ask my
Right Hon. Friend, the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, whether that
is not the case P—( A laugh.) This is not a laughing or light matter—
it is very light food, but not a very light subject. It is either true or
not, that there has been such an Order in Council. If it is true
what is the inference ? Not that they are overfed now, but that they
were under-fed before. I must say my impression is, it will be found
the statement I have made is correct to the letter. I shall be very
glad to hoar any correction of it, but I believe the correction
will be found to amount in substance to precisely what I
hsve stated.—(Cries of " Question, question," from the Opposition.)
I hope Isbell not be thought very obtrusive, when it is considered I have
laid before the House not fewer than 100 petitions, perhaps signed by
100,000 individuals, and that I have not opened my mouth either in or
out of the House on this matter, during all the time the discus..
sions on this subject have been going on.—(Hear, hear.) I think i I
cannot be said I have obtruded myself very unfairly on the attention of
the House.—(Hear, hear.) I hope I have only done what it is corn.
petent for me as a Member of Parliament to do, as I hope I have
not done it offensively. I believe the persons who are concerned
in what may be called the present agitation, are themselves
actuated by the best and the purest motives.—(Hear, hear.) There
have been presented to the House Tepwards of three thousand petitions
on this subject. Those petitions are signed by upwards of a million of
people; and shall we have petitions to that amount laid on the table of
the House (and from individuals, too, who don't lightly take up a
subject), only to be disregarded by the /louse ?—(Hear, hear.)
There cannot be two opinions in this House, that for the most part the
person who signs those petitions are men labouring under the influ-
ence of the best principles. Those who knew them best esteem them
highest. After having such au array of petitions, and such statements as I
have brought before the House, I think Hon. Members will not be of
opinion that the measure had been taken up lightly, or in the spirit of
party.—(Hear, hear.) My Hon. Friend opposite (Sir E. Wilmot) has
not taken up this subject in a party spirit. I shall vote for his resolu-
tion under the -perfect confidence that if the House of Commons
have the firmness to enact those laws that are necessary
for the preservation and tranquillity of the colonies it is
quite competent to them to do so.—(Hear.) With respect to any
injustice to the planters, I will only say that if you were to terminate
the apprenticeship system to-morrow, I do not believe you would do him
any injustice. Why do I say so ? You give the apprentices compmsa-
tion. They don't ask yoo for money—they ask you for that which is
better than money—Liberty.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The further
years of apprenticeship, is nothing more nor less than slavery. With
respect to the complaints in Jamaica, it is said, those complaints are not
universal. I am of opinion the House is not sufficiently acquainted
with the extent of those complaints.—(llear, hear.) When I
am supported by such authority as the Marquis of Sligo, fortified
by the authority of the Magistrates—and by the authority of official
documents—all of which support the case, have laboured so feebly to
advocate—after there has been exhibited before the House those state-
ments, I think the House may very safely come to the conclusion that
the amendment moved by the Honourable Baronet opposite ought to be
adopted, and that the Government be instructed to carry it into law.
Sir IL PEEL said—Sir, I shall leave it to others who have more
practical knowledge of the subject than myself to enter into the details
of the question. My objection. to enter into these details is chiefly
founded on this leading consideration, that we ought not to endeavour
to carry into force a change so important on a resolution advocated only
by a majority of three.—(Hear, hear.) The resolution of the Hon.
Baronet is tantamount to this, that we are not prepared to carry into
full effect the Act which established the apprenticeship system, and by
whirls the entire freedom of the negro was postponed till 1840. I
would have no objection in voting directly in opposition to that resolu-
tion of the 02d of May, but the amendment proposed by the Right Hon.
Baronet opposite (Sir George Grey) will have the same effect. Sir, I
would feel no difficulty in rescinding that resolution altogether, for I
confess that the mode adopted by the Hon. Member for Warwickshire
appears to me most objectionable.—(Hear, hear.) It is not proposed
by bins to rescind by Act of Parliament the former Act of Parliament,
which established the apprenticeship system after full and mature ex-
amination and deliberation by the labours of Committees year after year,
and by debate after debate in both Houses : No, Sir—all this is
proposed to be overthrown and set aside by a short resolution after
a short debate—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear)—a resolution creating a
host of difficulties by undoing everything, and providing no-
thing to meet the evil. It does not invite the House of Lords
to take any part in the reconsideration and readjustment of a
question on which they have already bestowed so much attention, while
it throws on the House of Commons the whole onus of self-contradic-
tion anti the burden and the dangers of discrepant legislation.—(Hear.)
If the Hon. Baronet had asked leave to bring in a Bill to revise and
amend the whole or any part of the legislation already accomplished, it
would, as it passed through its several stages, have afforded the neces-
sary opportunities for guarding the enactment of a theoretic resolution,
so dangerous in principle, by practical provisions and precautions which
might have guarded as far as possible against any mischief to arise from
such wholesale contradictory legislation.—(Hear, hear.) But no I the
Hon. Baronet insists on committing us to the assertion of a discordant
principle and the promise of a practical solution of the difficulty it in-
volves, while himself professes to be unable to solve the difficulty he
creates. This, Sir, I think we have a right to complain of as unfair.—
(Hear, hear.) If he had thought his principle sound and right
he ought to have been prepared to establish and demonstrate its
correctness—(Hear, hear)—a principle which goes not only to
contravene the legislation of former Parliaments but of your
own—enacted not mere than two months since.— (Hear, hear, hear.)
It is, in short, a measure calculated both to fetter the House in its fu-
ture enactments, and commit it to undo its most salutary past labours
for the settlement of a vitally important subject.—(Hear, bear.) I have

therefore, no hesitation in taking a course calculated directly to coun-
teract the danger to be apprehended from its introduction, and shall now
i state the train of consecutive reasons which have led me to this concise.
' i sion :—The adoption of the period of apprenticeship proposed, in 1833,
was made for the double purpose—first, of arranging a pecuniary corn.
pensation to the proprietors of slaves; and, secondly, as a preparatory
state for the negro himself, judged necessary on all hands to fit him for
that of entire freedom which was to follow. My Hon. Friend seems to
doubt that there was any compact virtually made or intended in
this arrangement ; but I can easily establish these two points con-
ceded by the Bill—first, that a pecuniary award should be made to
the masters for their property in their slaves; and, secondly, that
' the labour of the slaves should for a certain time be secured to
them, and taken in part-payment of their masters' claim. The
author of the measure (on the Nth of July, 1833) admitted that he
" he had distinctly stated, when he introduced the measure, that
compensation was due to the planters, because a principle of justicere-
quired that they should not take a man's property away from him with-
out an equivalent—because the laws of England had recognised the
slaves as the property of the West India peoprictors—and the House
of Commons having declared that emancipation should take place, de..
Glared at the samne time that they would grant compensation to the West
India proprietors." Lord Althorp also had said, in advocating the
measure, " He was convinced that the period of apprenticeship which
they proposed would not only be advantageous to the planter but also to
the negro, inasmuch as it would induce him to adopt industrious habits,
and thereby prepare him to support himself by his own exertions. He
thought that those who were disposed to put a just value on their free..
dons would work it out long before the period assigned, and for those
who were not so disposed the period of transition would be necessary
to prepare them, and to prevent them falling back into that state of bar.
barism in which men laboured only sufficiently to maintain existence."
The Bill by its arrangements gives the masters full power to dispose of
the remainner of the time allotted for the negro to work out his free.
dons, and therefore it is natural to presume that they have
so disposed of it in a variety of cases. Now what regulation does
the Hon. Baronet propose to ascertain and meet the losses which
would arise out of the adoption of his resolution ?—(Hear, hear,
hear.) How is the purchaser of the negro's time to be compen-
sated ?—Hear) If you say you will provide for it, show me out of
what fund ? If you say he is not to be compensats.d—why, there...never
would be such injustice inflicted by an Act of the Legislature.—(Hear.)
The Committee which sat in 1636 expressly stated " that nothing could
be more unfortunate for the Colonies than the unsettling of the en-
gagement by which the labour of the slave for seven years was fixed as
a portion of the compensationguaranteed to the proprietor by the Legis.
lature." Thus the Committee cbstinctly recognises the compact entered
betweeninto proprietors ; there was, it was true, no
written
Parliamenttfeia•e and
thewas an unwritten one in fact and in spirit
compact,b ut
which ought to be fully as binding on the Legislature.—(Hear.) If
that compact was understood by Parliament, by the West India colo-
nists, and by the whole world, who looked on with anxious interest,
in the same sense—in that sense ought that unwritten lew to be binding
on Pariiament.—(Hear) The question' was still open how far the under-
stood compact had been adhered to by the colonists. It was for Parlia-
ment to say, had there been such an universal violation of the law on the
part of the planters as to call for the sweeping resolution by which the
Hon. Bart. had met time supposed case of colonial criminality. Hebelieved I
the case was far otherwise; but, supposing that some had violated the
spirit of time compact in the cruel treatment of their negroes, in the
punishment provided by the resolution confined to the guilty ?—(Hear.)
If not, it is not a just punishment. You have doubtless a right to pro-
tect the negro and insist on an obedience to your enactments for his I
welfare; but has there really been such a general and universal neglect
of these provisions on the part of the planters as to call for universal
confiscation of this species of their property. Again I will ask, is the
proposition just as affecting the interests and feelings of the great popu-
lation of the West India islands themselves ? If not, I would say, be.
ware how you outrage those interests and feelings.—(Hear.) I have I
carefully read through the evidence on this subject, but I shall not oc-
cupy the time of the House in quotations, for I see that (taking de-
tached portions) nothing would be easier than to make out a case on either
side.—(Hear.) If you look to one letter you will find that all is going
on right and happily, Look to another, and you will see statements of
all proceedings so lamentable that it appears to require instant and
sweeping alteration. But, after all, much must be conceded to
the superior information of their respective local Legislatures.—
(Hear.) That of Antigua has anticipated you; and made its slaves
free at once. The Legislature of Barbadoes are considering the
same question, and it would be unfair and ungenerous to forestall the
measures of freedom they may have in contemplation. If you mean to
proceed in utter disregard of these local legislatures, how do you mean
to govern these colonies in future ? Lo you mean so draw.two distinct
black and white lines of demarcation in your legislation for these co-
lonies ?—(Hear, hear.) Do you intend to govern them henceforth
without the aid of those best fitted to aid you by local knowledge and
local interest ?—(Hear.) In the case of Barbadoes, for instance, if the
Legislature was to learn that the House of Commons hail stepped in to
deprive theta of the means of making an act of grace, it would not tend
to increase the harmony which is so desirable should exist between the
Legislatures. As to the proceedings of the Legislature of Jamaica, I
view it with exceeding regret. lam not at all an advocate of their
views and principles. On the contrary, I confess that it appears to me
that nothing short of infatuation can explain their conduct.—(Cheers.)
Considering that the abolition of slavery is now certain and inevitable,
and that only two short years, will elapse before it must terminate by
law, it seems incomprehensible to me how any set of men, acting in a
legislative capacity, would not apply themselves to carry into
effect with good faith the provisions enacted for the benefit of the whole
colony. But, I ask again, is there any proof of such a general departure
from the spirit of the Bill as to render this measure necessary? The
Committee which sat on this great question in 1836 reports that the de.
sire of improvement seems to be gaining ground wills the progress of
of the apprenticeship, that the system is developing highly satisfactory
results, and deprecate nothing so much as a disturbance of the arrange-
ments till the fair and settled termination of the period of apprenticeship
in 1840. The friends of this resolution of total abolition were formerly
eager in advising to the advocates of other measures, " wait till the tune
arrive," but now they are so inconsiderate as to require two years to be
struck off, instead of waiting four years, as they themselves proposed.
Well, after confining your attention to Jamaica (the chief seat of dissa-
tisfaction,) you say on the whole that the employment of the negio under
the apprenticeship system was proceeding satisfactorily. Antigua has
anticipated you. Barbadoes is proceeding in the same path. In Guiana,
the report of the Governor, Sir J. Carmichael Smyth, was highly satisfac-
tory, coming as it did from such an unquestioned source. (" No, no,"
from Mr. O'Connell.) I have always heard that Sir J. C. Smith bore
the highest character, that he had conciliated the good will of the slaves
there as well as in other Colonies, where he had been found so efficient,
and so above the ordinary prejudices of the whites, that he was deemed
twos thy to administer the affairs of Guiana ; and he declares his astonish-
ment that so much has been effected for the improvement of the negroes
in so short a space of time, and feels a high degree of satisfaction in
having been made an humble instrument in the work. They had heard
of the employment of " millions of stripes" under the present system ;
but Sir J. C. Smiths declares "that its a country where the whip head ha.
bitually resounded, and terror nightly reigned, he can now lay down
his head in peace, without fear of the slightest disturbance." It was his
decided opinion that the period of apprenticeship ought not to be short-
ened. Charges had been brought against his Government by Mr. Sco_
bel ; but charges inure clearly and impartially refuted I never heard.
Looking, then, to this question as one of prudence and sound policy, -I
think the adoption of the resolution of unqualified emancipation would
be both unjust to the proprietors, and dangerous and unwise to the ge-
neral interests of the Colonies. It is quite a different question whether
it was wise to have adopted the system of appi enticeship. I think that it
would have been wissr to have abolished slavery at the time altogether .
but even those who thought so then agree with me now. They see with me
that considereble prejudices exist on the subject of education in the Colo-
nies, as well as on those of the militia and time Poor-laws. The fact is
that, legislate as you will, you are dependent to a greater degree on the
feelings of the white population for the comfort of the slaves than
you think. Are you quite sure that without preparing the white po-
pulation you are conferring a boon on the negro by your interference ?
—(Hear, hear.) Recollect you have no despotic laws in the colonies to
aid you like those of Spain; and to take upon themselves all the conse..
quences of what might mice from this Act is what I cannot persuade
myself the British House of Commons will agree to.—(Hear.) Even
after the total abolition is carried out in 1840 you will have many things
to attend to in time way of precautions, for while prejudices such as those
which exist so extensively and deeply rooted in America, respecting the
colour of the negro, are afloat—unless you can prove to the white popu-
lation of those islands that you are independent of the clamour that may
arise on this subject—you will not be able to do one-half the good you
othet wise might.—(Hear, hear.) If once an impression pervades the
colonies that Parliament is prepared to abandon its functions,
and it is ready to delegate its authority to Exeter Hall, you will de-
prive yourself of the power you ought to exercise in balancing time pale
ties and calming the passions of opposing, interests and classes its the
West Indies. If you yield to these extrinsic appeals you will, I feel as-
sured, not only forfeit the just influence you ought to possess over your
own colonies, but you will also lose the desirable influence which you
might exercise over the fate of millions elsewhere.—(Hear, hear.) If
you say you can't fulfil your engagement with your own colonies, you
will be powerless to Induce other countries to follow your example.—
(Hear, hear.) I feel convinced, in common with the reflecting portion
of the world, that slavery cannot last long—(Hear, hear)—and that the
wisest course which America and France could take, would be to put a
speedy end to it altogether. There are about 800,000 slaves belonging
to Great Britain, and 5,000,000 to America, which we are also inte.
rested to see freed. But shall we, while a system is making satisfactory
progress in our colonies, step in, and by a majority of three, tell
the world that we cannot uphold the very system we have
established, and the only course for foreign nations to adopt
is the immediate abolition of slavery in their colonies ?—(Hear.)
I believe, Sir, that the observance of the apprenticeship sys-
tem as it now stands, and the observance of the obligations it Involves,'
is of the utmost importance for the amicable termination of slavery.
Otherwise I see a long course of discord, perhaps of bloodshed, in store
for the hapless colonies. If, however, we firmly refuse-to listen to an
appeal to our passions on this exciting subject, and steadily hold the
scales between both parties, I trust we shall shortly see the name ofslave
everywhere abolished.—(Hear, hear.) If, on the contrary, we lend an
ear to those who would hastily break up the settled legislative basis of the
social compact that had taken such time and labour to arrange, we also
may deceive the slave population, and lead them perhaps into a fatal ap-
peal to force, to be repelled with force, and lead to misery still greater.
SVe should thus, Sir, be furnishing the best excuse to time proprietors
of slaves and others who contend for the necessity of keep them in
strict bondage, and furnishing an argument to other Governments that
have not the moral courage to put an end to the slave trade.

Mr. O'CONNELL contended that the course adopted by the Hon.
Baronet the Member for North Warwickshire, of bringing forward the
question of immediate emancipation in the shape of a resolution was the
most convenient that could have been adopted, be ause it took away
from those who were likely to approve of the principle the pretext of op-
posinglt on the ground of its details being objectionable. The Right Hon.
Baronet had alluded to a report sent home from Jamaica; but he was
ignorant of the fact that that report had been agreed to before the evi-
dence on which it professed to be founded could be collected, and was
consequently of no more value than a vote of that House given two years
before the facts on which it was cawed for were known ? The Hon.
Baronet had alluded to the meetings at Exeter-hall ; and why had he
done so? Why, clearly to evince his willingness to share with the Go-
vernment the blame of resisting the prayers of the multitude who as-
sembled there on behalf of the negro. He then referred to Guiana. Did
he not know that the report of Sir J. C. Smith upon the state of that
colony bad been controverted ? Did he not know, moreover, that
the charges which Mr. Scobell had brought against Sir J. C.
Smith were as yet unanswered, and he believed unanswer-
able ? The Hon. Baronet the Member for Oxford had given
the
negro the benefit of the principal part of his speech, and he hoped
would let his vote follow it. He said boldly that there had been no
contract. Yes ; the Lord Chief Justice of England, and the thirty-four
colleges of Oxford, in the person of their representative, agreed 0,1. that
head. The Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Inglis) maintained that the labour
of the negro had been given as a boon to the planter during appren-
ticeship, but that it formed no part of the contract. If the Legislature
had given it, the Legislature might take it away.--(Cries of " Oh, oh.")
Why, that was but the fair inference from the argument of the Hon.
Baronet.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. the Member for Coventry
had told the House that it would take four years to make the requisite
preparations for emancipation. Did he mean to say that slavery was to
last four years more? Surely not. Four years had already elapsed
since emancipation had been agreed upon, and as yet no measure of
preparation had been adopted. The Hon. Baronet who opened the de-
bate commenced by warning them of the danger of so frequently dis-
cussing the question of immediate emancipation. But he was wrong;
That was not the danger to be apprehended. The danger to be appre-
hended was the delaying and not the discussing of the question of emanci-
pation. If there was anything calculated to disturb the negro in his
c urse of tranquil submission to the proceedings of the Legislature it
would be the deterring of his hopes, when all his past conduct so fully
justified him in expecting that he should be no longer, kept in slavery.—
(Cheers.) The great majority of the people of England Called aloud for

the negro's emancipation. It was nbt the idle, the dissipated, and the
thoughtless that were its advocates, it was the pious, the sober, and the
enlightened classes of the community. And why were they so?
Because, in addition to the great and pressing appeals of humanity,
they found that the conduct of the negro population in all the colonies
had been . such as to entitle them to freedom. The entire evidence was
in favour of immediate emancipation, for the entire evidence went to
prove that the negro was capable of appreciating the boon, and ready to
meet the important change in his condition which it would bring about.
But he now came to the great evil—the dark spot in the history of the
whole transaction—the paying of the 2.0,000,000/. to the planters. That
sum, he maintained, had been paid to them i❑ defiance of the law, their
claim to it being founded in fraud and deceit. He did not accuse those
who paid it of any improper motives, but he did contend that they
had not been sufficiently cautious, and had allowed themselves to be
grossly deluded. The Act of 1534 specifically required that the
money should not be paid to the planters until proper security was
given that its conditions as regarded the negroes should be carried into
effect. Had that security been given ? or, if so, had those conditions
been kept? Why, if the planters had fulfilled their contract, what was
the occasion for the Act passed during the present Session ? If the
planters had observed their part of the contract, then the Act-to which
he alluded was in direct violation of It, and he had nothing to do but to
read the several clauses of which it was composed to prove that it was so.
The Government had committed a grave fault in paying the twenty
millions as they had done, and for that fault he openly arraigned them
before the people of England. It was only now that the planters were
entitled to be paid ; so that, in addition to the enormous principal, they
had, through the precipitancy of the Government, pocketed four years'
interest upon it. But what reparation was to be made to the negro for'
the mistake which had been committed ? How was he to be compensated
for the non fulfilment, on the part of the planters, of the conditions of
the Act of 1834? How was he to be paid for his time lost What com-
pensation was to be given to the unfortunate woman who had been
flogged? None. Alas! they could not repair the past. But they could
do something for the future. It was in their power to do justice to the
suffering negro, and justice he demanded at their hands.—(Cheers.) He
was not alone in the call. The majority of the English nation joined
him, and the appeal no Government could long resist. Let him not be
told there was no time for preparations. He denied that they were
wanted; but if they were, they could well proceed, pari passe, with
the Bill for carrying into effect the resolution of that House. He
sh:sitpeldoled(cthheeelrlsoouse, therefore, to pause before they decided against the
claim ofthe negro, for that claim was in every sense the claim of jus-
tice; and though it might for a time, could not eventually be re.
Hr. ELLICE explained. What he had said was• that the two years
yet unexpired would be nesessary for carrying the requisite preparatory
measure.s previous to total abolition ; but nothing was farther from his
thoughts than to suggest the idea of continuing slavery longer than the
law of 1834 proposed.—(Cheers )
Hr. O'CONNELL was most ready to suppose that he had mistaken
the Right Hon. Gentleman.

Lord STANLEY could assure the House that he would trespass but
a very short time on their attention, nor should he have at all risen
after the able and comprehensive speech of the Right Honourable Baro-
net near him were it not for one or two observations made by the Hon.
and Learned Member who had last spoken. The Honourable and
Learned Gentleman commenced by observing that he thought the course
adopted by the Honourable Baronet the Member for North Warwick-
shire, of proceeding by resolution, was the least objectionable one, be-
it cause by so doing lie avoided the necessity of entering into any details.
I Now this, be confessed. appeared to him very singular reasoning.—
(Hear, hear.) Undoubtedly for those gentlemen who appealed to the
feelings without consulting the reason of those whom they addressed,
mid who dwelt upon exaggerated, and, in some cases, unfounded facts,
in order to justify the. sweeping away of the whole system, regardless of
the consequences to this country or the colonies—undoubtedly, with
gentlemen who had these views the difficulties of the question
were materially diminished, and they might find it the most con-
venient course to take the resolutions, and thus avoid the responsi-
culty which attached to those who grappled with the real diffiColty by
bringing in a But the resolution must be acted on, either by the
Government or some other party. The Hon. Gentleman who proposed
it must be aware that the Government would not\ take it up, and it was
equally clear that his Right Hon. Friend (Sir R. Peel) acting on the dic-
tates of justice and enlightened humanity, could not take on himself the
responsibility of carrying such a resolution into effect. Was it wise,
safe, or prudent to leave it-on the journals of the House unreseinded and
uncommented upon, or was it possible to do so without producing con.
sequences the meet mischievous and dangerous ? In order to counteract
the impression which must be produced by the news of the resolution
tending to convey that Parliament had decreed the immediate emanci-
pation of the negroes, an immediate step was necessary to be taken.—
(Hear, hear,' hear.) As an instance of the facility with which the
most conscientious were betrayed into the greatest misstatements, he
need only refer to the assertions made by the Honourable and
Learned Member for Dublin that Vie Legislature of Barbadoes had
come to the determination not to pass emancipation, and in
Ins explanation, when contradicted by his Honourable Friend the
Under Secretary for the Colonies, the Honourable and Learned Gentle-
' man immediately qualified his first statement by saying " true, the
Legislature of Barbadoes did not declare it, but two or three principal
speakers did." Why, the Honourable and Learned Gentleman was one
of the principal speakers in the English House of Commons, but he
should be very sorry that its proceedings and views should in all cases
be interpreted by his language.—(Opposition cheers.) The Honourable
and Learned Gentleman then proceeded to refer to a document in which
it was asserted that three children were turned out to starve, and that
the owner of the estate refused to give them any assistance. Unfor.
innately for the Honourable and Learned Gentleman's argument, this
was not a new charge: it had been met, investigated, sifted to the
bottom, and proved to be utterly destitute of foundation. There Wa3 in
the papers on the table a despatch Of Sir G. APGreg,or's, stating this the
result of the inquiry was that the charge met with a complete refu-
tation. Now, this was one instance of the topics of declamation, or
rather exaggeration, dwelt upon not only in that House, but in pub-
lic meetings, whirls were the more excitable, because they were attended
by moral and religious men holding in the strongest abhorrence the
crimes which had been committed in the colonies, and giving a cordial
assent to the statements which they heard, but which the authors and
purveyors of those statements refute to have sifted by a Committee,
which they deprecated and refused such persons, acting on the warmest
and purest feelings, slid do gross injustice to the planters, and would, if
their opinions and views were acted on, involve this question in insupe-
rable and interminable difficulties.—(Cheers.)
Mr. BAINES said that the charge :which the Honourable and
Learned Member for Dublin had made was contained in a late newspaper.
Lord STANLEY—WeII, a newspape'r paragraph was certainly not a
very good foundation for such a charge ; but though it did not allude to
the fact as occurring in last July, it so happened that this anonymous
communication was a repetition of what originally appeared in a news.
paper also, and which,when the matter was inquired into, received
a direct and formal refutation.—(Cheers.) This was not the time to die.
cuss whether the system of apprenticeship should have been adopted or
not, or whether it was prudent to introduce it to mitigate the dangers
which were to be .apprehended from a sudden transition frona slavery to
freedom, or whether it was unnecessary and vexatious in the first in.
stance to adopt such a course. He entertained very strong feelings on
that point, and he was persuaded that if they had proceeded in the first
instance to abolish slavery, they should have hazarded the safety of the
West India Colonies, and risked the welfare of the negroes themselves.
—(Cheers.) lie believed this was the opinion entertained at that time,
ono he believed at this time by a great proportion of those who watched
the gradual and safe progress of the Emancipation Act. But in order
to form a safe and sound judgment as to the discretion which was then
then existed, and subjected to the feelings and influences which then pre_
m the West-Indies. It was not possible
wailed, both in this country and • •
exercised, it was necessary to place ourselves in the circumstances which
to look at the question .the same light now, with the experience
which was since attained, and when the proposal of the apprentice-
ship Was first introduced. And he, for his part, was quite satisfied to
take on his shoulders the responsibility of having introduced a measure
sc
which, notwithstanding the prophecies and prognostics of bloodshed,
to such results as could be thus characterised by his
e
ruin, and disappointment, had combined humanity- with justice to the
planters,
?Colonial Department :—" It must be highly gratifying
to youe st
diat e
o
ninddthtlhe results of your labours in the superintendence of the
ah
naryitsltlactret entmade,
great change which has been effected in the colonial system, placed in
so clear and satisfactory a light as they appear to me to be in the docu-
ments now before me. That a perfect system could at once have been
established and enforced in substitution for that which existed for so
long a series of years was not, indeed, to be expected by any man of
common sense and ordinary acquaintance with human nature. It is no
matter of surprise, that evils of great inveteracy and malignity should
have left some traces of their former existence, and that in British
Guiana, as elsewhere, the authority of tlfe law and the administration
of justice should not have been in every instance effective and im-
I confess, however, that I derive from a review of those
im-
peccable.
since the operation of the new law, benefits of no ordi_
well as from other sources of information, the strongest
Papers, as
the statements re-
conviction that, even during the comparatively short period which has
character,elapsed and fay equal to any reasonable anticipations,' have
:esuNltoowf ashsesrinetrvieat:
not on the authority of exaggerated 'statements, but
boneean calm
realised
con
in) theem
coloniesn .
When
colonya
Nnuvdnhdgeeenrn
hea
eoaurl
err
ae
dG,
vie; Government."
the
eti
dating to all the colon
and perilous experiment
th which had succeeded beyond his most sanguine
expectations, and when
e question was whether they would allow the
Period of apprenticeship to continue for two years, when it might termi.
nate safely, or put a stop to it now—when no preparation was made by
the Legislature, in accordance with the views the advocates of the
negro, who maintained that all preparation should be put eiTto the last
moment—it would, in his opinion, he madness to abandon the prospect
w
hich was now held out of a final and satisfactory settlement, and enter
on a field of irritation, excitement, and confusion, the result of which he
defied any man to predict.—(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
maa thee Member for Dublin said there was no contract. As the organ
of the Government when the measure was brought forward, he declared
term of the apprenticeship and compensation-money were stipu-
tist the
datedas
returns for the cordial assent of the planters. As to the amount of
the one and the length of time other, they were matters of discussion and
negotiation with the West Indian bodies. The terms were submitted
to Parliament—by Parliament they were considered. The changes made
were not from a loan, but a grant of 15,000,0001. to a grant of
20,000,000/., and the reduction of the term of the apprenticeship to
six years. What was the condition imposed by Act of Parliament on
these grants? That the Legislature should see that adequate and ma.
tisfactory provision was made for securing the objects of the emancipa-
tion measure. He admitted there were defects in that measure, but he
denied that it had failed. Sir J. Carmichael Smyth, last October, said
that the effect of the apprenticeship was to make the negroes more reli-
gious, to increase their, marriages, and to diminish the convictions of
adults, " The transition from a disgusting and almost naked slave, to
a cheerful and decently clad labourer had taken place in Guiana, and
must strike one echo had left the colony some years ago, and had lately
occasion to revisit it." He did not say that this, being the condition of
the negroes, proved the necessity for their immediate emancipation ;
but all he said was,. this, that he looked to the progress of a
still greater change, without any very great degree of apprehen-
sion."—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) If in the most prosperous of the
colonies, with the exception of Antigua and Barbadoes, the best antici-
pation that Sir J. C. Smyth could entertain from the present working of
the system was, to look forward to ultimate freedom, "without any
great apprehension"— what did they think would be the prospect of
safety and happiness in colonies less advanced, less prepared for the
change, the feelings of whose inhabitants had been less conciliated, if '
they were violently to sever the ties which now united them, and take
a course which might excite unalterable hostility ?—(Cheers.) He knew
not who was the man who would be bold or bad enough to subject a
Government to such responsibility ; but if there was no man who would
accept office, subject to the charge of acting on the resolution of the
Right Hon. Gentleman with that sense of the Parliair7ent of Great
Britain clear and decided, was it not double madness, when it was known
they could not be carried into effect, to send them out es the decisions of
the Legislature, not to promote any good purpose, but to produce an ex.
citement which must for ever destroy the hopes of seeing a peaceable
and friendly settlement of this great question ?—(Loud cheers.) He
hoped that the conviction
produced on the minds of the planters by time
debates of the present Session would be to convince them that the British
Legislature and Government were equally determined not to admit
any, the slightest or smallest, infraction of the pledge which they had
given, and not to listen to any prolongation of time term of the apprentice-
ship; and that they would see that by cooperation, those years which
now remained of the apprenticeship, and whirls was not a moment too
long, might be usefully acid safely employed in devising and enacting
those laws which would ultimately lead time negroes from the transition
state to a safe, wholesome, and constitutional condition of freedom.—
(Loud cheers.)
Dr. LUSH INGTON rose, but the cries of " Divide" were so loud
and long continued, that it was not until the Speaker had interfered that
he could obtain a hearing,. He must say that lie wa; disgusted at some
of the arguments which he had heard to-night, in which some Hon.
Members appeared to speak of this matter as of a contract for the sale of
an estate or other inanimate commodity. They were engaged now, how