The Sun.
London, England, 1822-07-16 00:00:00

IRISH INSURRECTION ACT.

Mr. GOLTLBURN moved the Order of the Day-for reading
the Irish Insurrection Bill a third time.

Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON, without approving of those e.is-
orders in Ireland, which no legal man could view but with
feelings of deep regret, felt it necessary to explain the mo-
tives which regulated his conduct. He considered the House
to be now in possession of the measures which the Go-
vernment meant to propose in the present Session of Par-
liament.--looking at these, he had no hesitation in saying,
that enough had not been done for the relief of Ireland. It
was now twenty-two years since the Union, which was in:
tended to consolidate the interests of the two islands, but the
hopes held out to Ireland were not realized. He did not
ascribe the famine which now prevailed to the measures of
.Ministers; nor did he quarrel with Ministers for not effect-
ing a commutation of tithes, but what he quarrelled with them
for was this, that they had never inquired into the situa:
'on of Ireland till they were compelled to do so by some
impending calamity. He complained that the promise held
out in the King's Speech, at the beginning of the Session,
had not been made good. He contended that the Irish-
man was made of good stuff—was fit to be trusted, and if his
good qualities were obscured, it only proved that there was
something radicalise wrong in the system of Government--
He dissented from the Secretary of State for the Home Dee
partment, and the Noble Marquis, who thought that Ire-
land had already engaged enough of the attention of: Par-
liament, and that all had been done that could be done--
Ile eulogised the Marquis of. Wellesley, but maintained that,
as a public man, he (Mr. Hutchinson) was bound to oppose
his call for the renewal of the Insurrection Act. He was
glad that the Act when passed would be committed to humane
Magistrates, and to an enlightened Lord Lieutenant, but this
was not enough for him. Before he voted for this Bill hd
wished to see that more had been accomplished for the relief of
Ireland than had hitherto been done. While the present-fear-
ful distress 'prevailed in Ireland, if the public money could
atibrd relief, it was the duty of Parliament not to suffer the peo.:
pie of Ireland to come to their bar as mendicants, but to relieve
them to the very last shilling. He denied that Ireland had
profited.as she ought to have done from her connection-with
England. The evils which had oppressed her were in- fact
such that it was time the Government should retrace its steps,
and that a course the reverse of that which had hitherto been
pursued should be taken. Transportation and death were not
the means of correcting the evils which existed. These Were
not the 'expedients to which a good government would have
recoursei they only served to prove the'absence of all Govern-
ment. He objected to the several provisions of the Insur-
rection Act,. but one of the greatest objections which he had to
it grew out of the insults to which females were exposed
under it. He had seen soldiers and others enter a hut'where a
whole family reposed in one room ; the women—the grthin-up
daughters—the brothers, and the other members of the fainily.
Thus circumstanced, respect for decency was still preserved ;
but when the soldiers, with a Magistrate, had entered One of
these cabins of misery, he himself had seen the females who
were its inmates, obliged to quit it, in a state of perfect nudity,
that their beds might be searched. The insurrection-act could
not be carried into effect without producing such scenes. Re did
not wish to withhold from Government the powers which they
had a right to claim : but what he declared before such slaw as
that now called for was passed, was this—that such an, inquiryshould take place, as would (he was convinced such would be
die case), make every man in Ireland loyal. He was grates
ful for the manner in which the distress in Ireland had been
taken up in England, and especially for the manner in which
English Members had exerted themselves. What he desired
was, that an inquiry into the state of Ireland should- take
place—that a Commission of English Gentlemen shotild take
the subject in hand. They could not be better employed; and
the result would be some measure which would confer imPort-
ant benefits to Ireland. He did not undervalue the dangers to
which the loyal were exposed. He could not vie* the distur-
bances which had taken place without horror, and was anxious
that every means should be used to put them doviri. But he
contended the dtity of the Government did not end 'there.
They ought to take other measures, and endeavour to get at
the root of the evil. This Bill gave the Lord Lieutenant a
power -which he ought not to possess. The other measures
which the Session had, produced were inefficient. The' Tithes
Leasing Bill he thought a very useless measure. He consi-
dered it objectionable in many respects. But he, notwithstad-
ing, took it such as it was, a boon, and thanked Ministers,, for
in this he recognized a disposition on the part of. Miniete,rs to
do something to relieve the distresses of Ireland. He hoped it
would be followed up by a measure for commuting the tithes.
He felt that he should not have done his duty, had he'riot de:
precated the passing of the Bill before the House, before an
inquiry had been instituted into the state of. Ireland, with a
view of getting at the root of the'evil, and sifting the gnevances
complained of to the bottom, in order to guard against their
recurrence at some future period.
Mr. MONCK thought the present Bill might be necessary
to check the evil complained of, but he regretted 'that if would
not strike at the root. The cause of the evil he believed `to be
the redundant population, which exceeded that of any other
part of the. world. While the people of Ireland were con-
tented with potatoes, instead of being corn-fed like every
other people of Europe, he feared the calamities, now, ex-
perienced would be of frequent recurrence. He was 'sorry
that Irish lindlords were not more
,in the habit of lit ng
on their estates than they'had been of late years. Anlevil
like that now felt in Ireland would be prevented in this, coun:
try by the humane interference of the laws. It was herd on
this country that, besides maintaining its own poor, it should
be called on relieve the suffering population of Ireland.--
But saying this he was far from wishing that this country should
abate its exertions to assist the Irish, where a calamity of such
magnitude was to be met. The Irish Gentlemen were of opi-
nion, that in England the subject was not understood. He had
read &letter two days ago, which said, " Give us the Insurrec-
tion Act for the rich, and potatoes for the Poor, and we linVe All
we desire." He, however, did not wish the poor to have pots-
toes,—he wished them to have cornreto be fed on bread. He,
would not say that the Poor Laws ought to be introduced into
Ireland, as at that moment he feared their operatiOn would re-
duce those who were now considered rich to the level pf the
poor.
Colonel TRENCH coincided in the view which the lion.
Gentleman who had last spoken took of the causes of the dis-
tress which now prevailed in Ireland, but he thought that this
Bill ought to pass as a measure of necessity ; and not only as
a measure of necessity but-as one of mercy. The evils Which
afflicted Ireland were of two kinds—the qne was capable of
being diminished by legislative influence—the 'other was not.
, Among the former he considered the state of the magistracy,—
the tithes—and the want of education among the poor. The
other was the absentees (the number of whom would jedin-
creased by any effort to diminish them), the high rents,
.and
the manner in which the poor were neglected by those who
ought to protect and inform them. He bore testimony to the
natural excellence of the Irish character, and the ineriebrious
exertions of the Hibernian Society to diffuse the blessings' Of
Christian knowledge, and the light of education, whicii'yere
among the most important means of ameliorating the condition
of Ireland. One of the most crying evils had scarcely aen
alluded to, though the remedy was in the hands of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer. The evil was the Excise Laws, and
the remedy would be found by licensing small stills. By such
a measure the revenue would not suffer, as in that case the ac-

‘ve young men, who now formed an army hostile to the law '
and the Government, would be on its side. Those who paid
for a small still would be active to see that others did not profit
lay illicit distillation. He approved of the Bill, and was con-
vinced that in the hands of the present Government there was
no danger of its powers being misapplied.
Mr. WILBERFORCE said, he should give his support to
the proposed measure, but not with any disposition to harsh-
ness cr to cruelty. The Legislature, it was true, might do much
for Ireland; but it was only by education that the people could
leap their own importance, and best ascertain what would
mesiorate their condition, There, was no more royal road to
civilization than there was to geometry—education, as he had
just said, would be the best and only means of securing it.
Mr. R. MARTIN concurred in the eulogium which the
Ilon.thlember for Cork had pronounced on the character of the
Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, but complained of the objections
. urged against all the measures which had been brought for-
ward for the relief of Ireland. He particularly regretted
the amendments (if it were not a blunder to call them so)
which had been made in the Irish Constables' Bill. It had
originally been proposed in it to give power to appoint a
salaried Magistrate, on an 'extraordinary emergency. This
would, in his opinion, have been advantageous, as he was
sorry to confess that as the Magistracy of Ireland was at pre-
- sent constituted, a poor man would probably net obtain justice
with the same promptness as a rich man would. It was then
important that a Magistrate should be appointed, who would
till a more neutral situation. He would ask any Irish Magis-
trate (being like himself, a County Member) if it would not
be a great relief to him to be able to say to those who pressed
•their affairs on his consideration, " I have not time to attend
to your cause myself ; but there is a gentleman—go to him,
and you will obtain prompt justice at his hands.' The sa-
laried Magistrate would be the Magistrate for the poor man in
Ireland. He begged pardon for deviating from the subject be-
fore the House ; but the two Bills had been discussed together
by others, and acting as he had done, he had only followed the
- example set by others. He thought that the keeping people
in their houses at night was only. for their own. good. The
poor were not armed against the rich, but against each other ;
...and to keep them from each other, was the best measure that
could be adopted for their good. For these reasons he should
support the Bill.
Mr. W. SMITH found himself in a dilemma as to the vote
he should give upon this question. He believed the Insurrec-
'Con, Act to be in a great degree a measure of mercy.—(Hear !)
—He thought also that the state of Ireland demanded
it. But the powers which had formerly been placed in the
"hands of the Government had been so abused, that he could not
but hesitate at incurring the risk of a repetition of the events
to which he alluded. In his opinion the Indemnity Act, which
followed them, was an indelible stain upon the country. When
he spoke of those Acts, and the-abuse of power then displayed,
he did not at all mean to implicate the present Irish Govern-
ment, or to say that any part of their conduct partook of - his
suspicions. He did not expect, that any thing which could be
done for Ireland would give her immedate relief. It must take
the'operation of a century, under the best and wisest manage-
ment, to cure the evils of four or five centuries of misgovern-
, ment. ,

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to make one or
two observations upon the impolicy of reverting to the pain-
ful events and circumstances connected with the Irish Rebel-
lion, upon an occasion like the present. He could tell the Hon.
Member that there was no abuse, or even exercise of the power
entrusted to the Government, in the acts which were perpetrated
at the time of the rebellion, and which he should be the last to
countenance or defend. They were not abuses of power, but
acts of self-defence, although of a nature which all lived to
deplore. 'With regard to the Indemnity Act, he had the
honour of being a Minister at the time it was brought in, and
he was desirous of taking all the odium which attached to it
upon himself. He should have been ashamed of himself, if,
when he brought down a Bill for pardoning the Irish rebels
for their acts of plunder, and murder, and rebellion—if he had
not also brought down, an Act of Indemnity for MagistrateS,
who were compelled to resort, in self-defence, to measures of
melancholy severity. The Act of Indemnity was not applied
to individual cases, but to the general state of Ireland. He
would ask- the Hon. Member what he wOtild have thought of
any Minister, who, after pardoning rebels and the disloyal, had
left the Magistrates and those who opposed them unprotected ?
!)
,edr. DENNIS BROWN thought that the Insurrection Act
ought to have been put in force by the House last year. With
regard to what the Hon. Member (Mr. Smith) had said, as to
the abuse of power, during the Irish rebellion, the Noble Mar-
quis had very properly described the character of those pro-
- ceedings.
Xi.. S. RICE thought it hard that the House should be ac-
cused of not having proceeded to the passing of a measure of so
,much severity at any earlier, and at which was considered an
unnecessary, period. He perfectly agreed in the expediency of
•discussing Irish questions, without allusion to various topics
which were often introduced, and particularly that of the rebel-
_ unless when the causes which led to it were considered
analogous to the existing state of affairs. He' put it to any
Bon. Gentleman whether such a course did not go to revive
the angry feelings of parties, without the possibility of doing
good ? He wished to say a few words upon this Bill, which
he considered so objectionable, as giving so enormous a power
to Magistrates. He should have wished to propose a clause
for the introduction of Juries in all cases comprehended by the
Act. Taut from what had passed upon the subject, he should
not press his opinion. There was one clause in the Bill to
seisich he had a strong objection. He meant the one which
provided that country., Magistrates should not exercise their
.authority in towns and cities. He wished for the appoint-
'.rent of Justices to.act in those towns and cities. There was
. another clause which he was anxious should be altered, so as
to allow the King's Counsel, or the Serjeant who tried the
prisoners, to admit persons charged under the Act to bail.
This could also be done by the Assistant Barrister who was
resident in the country. He thought this should be granted,
ES the crime charged upon them did not amount to felony.
Having troubled the House upon a former occasion, lie should
not enter into any detailed observations upon the measure.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY and Mr. W. SMITII ex-
plained.
General HART supported the Bill. He considered a large
portion of the evils of Ireland to be dependent upon the state
GT the Distillery Laws, and the illegal distillation which was
constantly carried on. Be likewise complained of the plunder
and injustice committed inethe levying of town land fines. He
had presented a Petition to the House upon this subject, and
fietrusted that it would receive the attention of the Commis-
sioners. If not, he sheuld take a future opportunity of mov-
dig for a Committee to inquire into the whole question. He
hoped that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would give his
attention to it, and do something to relieve the evil.
Mr. PLUNKETT, in reply to what had fallen from the
'Hone Member for Limerick (Mr. Rice) stated, that the mean-
ing of the Act was clear upon the point as to the power of Ma-
gistrates,- and that no such amendment as he suggested would
be necessary. With regard to .the power of admitting bail
heing,given to the Assistant Barrister, bethought it objection-
able upon the ground of expediedcy.
Mr. G. RENNET would not give his supped to the Bill,
as he had never supported.any measure of severity towards the
people. No one could look at this Session, but they would see
that all its acts had gone to take away from the people of Ire-
land, and to give nothing to.ehem, excepting the advances of
money, to which they had a right, and to the window
/Ye called upon, the House to look at their own experience of
each measures before they passed the present one.
Mr. GOULBURN expressed his concurrence with what had
- fallen from the Hon. Member for Limerick, as to the wisdom
of not reverting to the melancholy acts which distinguished the
period of the rebellion. -Neither should he quarrel with the
Mound taken by the 'Hon. Member for Shrewsbury, when lie
(Ailed on the House to act on its own experience,; for the Irish
Government.only demanded this Act, to prevent the recurrence
of those dreadful scenes of rebellion, and its consequent mea-
sures, to which .the present was comparatively mild. From
• what had taken place when the Insurrection Act was first
called for, it reyuired no spirit of prophecy to foresee that
civil war must have ensued, without the adoption of some ex-
' .ireordinary measures. its renewal was now only asked as a
'Measure of prevention, and with a view to restore that state of
•calei under which the Government might apply itself to the
means of improving the general condition of the country.—
(Hear, hear !)—He trusted that it would be attended with that
-efect, and that neither he, nor those who might succeed turn,
would have occasion to resort to it 'again. A question had
been put to him as to his views with regard to,the -Magistracy.
It was well known that the Lord Chancellor of Ireland was
now engaged in investigating that subject, and it was one so
full- of difficulties and obstacles, that much time and attention
were required to remove them. This would prevent him from
giving a definitive answer at present; all he could say was,
that when time would permit, there was nothing-which had yet
teen proposed by former Governments, or even by his Right
.Hon. Friend, that would not be carried into effect if found
practicable.— ( Hear !)
Lord A. HAMILTON could not give his consent to this
radissure,'as he considered that he should be voting the destruc-
tion of the constitutional liberties of Ireland. He should think
-the vote quite equal to one for a permanent suspension of the
adegs Corpus Actin England.
Mr. BLTTTERWORTH supported the Bill, which was
. then read a third time and passed, without a division.
CONSULS IN THE BRAZILS.

On the question for the House going into a Committee of
Supply,
Mr..HUME begged to call the attention of the House to the
expence incurred for Consuls at the Brazils.—A British rner-
Oantin that part of the world was exposed to a,charge of one

per cent. upon his goods. This had been forbidden by the
Noble Marquis some time ago, but he had countermanded his
order, and the practice of, charging this per centage was now
revived. The duties were not performed by the Consul-Gene-
ral, but by the vice-consul, who exacted these fees. This tax
upon English commerce operated as'a premium to the Ameri-
cans, who were not exposed to it.: The Noble Marquis had,
on a former occasion, defended the expence, by adverting to the
high price of provisions at the Brazils ; but he (Mr. Hume) had
the best information that provisions there were in general cheap-
er than they were in England. He trusted something would be
done to remedy this grievance ; and, for that purpose, he moved
a resolution, stating the fact, that 77,6001. had been received by
Consuls at the Brazils within the:six years preceding, besides
12,0001. for salaries and allowances, and that such large emo-
luments were extravagant and unnecessary, and ought to be
reduced.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that on a former
occasion he bad stated that these fees were about to be re.
vised, and that they were then under consideration. lie was
now willing to go into an inquiry on the subject ; but he could
not consent to postpone the public business until this compli-
cated question was disposed of. He had a right to complain a
little of the exaggeration of the lion. Member, though he ad-
mitted that the allowances were proper to be inquired into. He
had no objection whatever to produce all the correspondence
which had taken place respecting the fees.—(Hear, hear.)—
The allowances and emoluments had become large in conse-
quence of the increase of trade in that quarter ; and no
less than three attempts had been made by Government to
counteract this increase of expense. He repeated his willing-
ness to afford every information 'on the subject, by . producing
the correspondence, but he felt it to be his duty to give a nega-
tive to the proposed Resolution.
Mr. BARING said the expense alluded to was enormous,
and materially checked the competition of the English with the
foreign trader.
Mr. HUME explained. The present differed from all other
Consular cases, and had therefore no reference to the pro-
posed general arrangements of the 'Noble Marquis. He (Mr.
H.) was already in possession of the correspondence, but it
would afford the House no new information. If, however, the
Noble Mtrquis thought otherwise, he ought to have laid it on
the table before.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said it was rather sur-
prising if the Hein. Member was in possession of the correspon-
dence of his oftice.--(Hear, heir, and a laugh !)--If he had, he
(the Marquis) would be glad to know how he got access to it.
At all events the House perhaps world not be inclined to take
for granted the opinion of the Hon. Member as fo the ques-
tion whether the correspondence afforded information or not.
Mr. H UAIE said he hart alluded only to the .correspondence
between the Noble Mar • Ais and the Merchants.

. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he had referred to
the correspondence between himself and the Consuls.
The Resolution was negatived without a division, after a
short conversation between the Marquis of LONDONDERRY,
Mr. BENNET and Lord PALkERSTON.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. _

Mr. GOULBURN moved that the Irish Miscellaneous Esti-
mates be referred to a Committee of the whole House.
Mr. G. BENNET .wished to know whether Lord Palmer-
ston would bring on the debate on the Opthalmic Hospital, as
he was anxious that that debate should not be suppressed ?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY hoped that the debate
would come last. .

Lord PALMERSTON said that his motion was delayed
till Wednesday.
NATIONAL MONUMENT OF SCOTLAND.

Lord hiVi;111;;i; moved that the Petitions for 10,0001: in
aid of the National Monument of Scotland, be referred to the
Committee. _ _

Mr. HUME put_ it to the House if this was the time to
encourage by a gift of 10,0001. of the public money, the build- ,
ing of a Parthenon upon the Calton Hill at Edinburgh ? The
100,0001. out of which this money was proposed to be taken •
had been voted, not to build Parthenons, but Churches. He
hoped, that at a time like the present, eveliMinisters would not
press the measure.
Sir R. WILSON thought the time improper. When the-
whole country was suffering, and when numbers of the Irish were
starving, was that a tithe for building monuments to commemo-
rate victories which had been gained under circumstances which
were not altogether grounds of thanksgiving to the God of Peace ?
—lf the thing had been to he a trophy to Jupiter Tonans, it
might have done; but it had little connection with the Chris-
tian religion, for the advancement of which the 100,0001. had
been voted. It might be that the present Chancellor of
the Exchequer was anxious to become a Persilis ; but where
was he to find a Phidias ? The Parthenon too was erected to
the goddess Minerva, who, it might be, had no great share in
conducting the matters to which this Monument was to be
erected.
Mr. W. K. DOUGLAS spoke in favour of the grant, and
Mr. H. GURNEY and Mr. MONCK against it.
Mr. U. BENNET said he held in his hand a circular which
he understood had been sent round to the Members, earnestly
requesting their attendance on Monday evening, to support,
in the Committee of Supply, the grant of 10,0001. for
the erection of a National Monument in Scotland.— (Hear,
hear !)—He did not know 'who the author of this production
was, but the proceeding appeared to him both novel and
audacious. When he ',gave his consent to the grant of
100,0001. for building Churches in Scotland, it was not
for the purpose of gratifying the taste of the people of
Edinburgh in splendid buildings. If they had a fancy. to exhibit
their taste to thefworld, he:thought it but fair that they should in-
dulge it at their own expense, and not out of the pockets of the
people of England. Taxed as the people were at present, it was
indecent that they should be called upon for further taxes upon
such an occasion. When the Treasury was full such a grant
might be admissible ; but when it was empty, and when the
Gentlemen of England did not expect to receive one-tenth of
their rents, it was rather too much to call upon England to ad-
vance so large a sum to Scotland, for the mere purpose of con-
tributing to her national embellishments.
Mr. C. GRANT suggested the propriety of adjourning the
`debate until next Session. The grant of 10,0001. for the erec-
tion of splendid buildings in Edinburgh was a gross misappli-
cation of the public money. When he heard such a grant
mentioned, he could not help looking to various parishes in the
Highlands, sekne of which were 40 miles in extent, and with-
out
a parish church. The question ought to have been sub-
mitted to the General Assembly, as had been done before.
When in England grants had been made for the building of
Churches, they were handed over to Commissioners, who em-
ployed them on their own responsibility. Why, he would ask,
was not the same arrangement made with respect to Scotland ?
Or, rather, why should 10,0001. be afforded-to that country
without any responsibility at all?
Lord BINNING declared, that if he thought this grant would
have the effect of taking one farthing from the suffeting Irish,
he would be the last man to have brought it forward. There
was, he contended, a great want of Churches both in Edinburgh
and Leith,. where, notwithstanding the great increase of popu-
lation within these few years, only one new Church had been
built.
Sir W. W. WYNN objected to the grant of 10,0001. as too
large a sum, though he approved of the application of a fair and
reasonable amount to such purposes.
Mr. T. WILSON said, that, considering the state of the
country at present, he must oppose this motion, which he had
hoped the Noble Lord would have withdrawn, from observing
the feeling which it had created within doors.
• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he saw
that such a variety of opinion prevailed amongst the Members
for Scotland, that he felt he was obliged to advise, his Noble
Friend, for tile present at least, to withdraw his motion. At a
future period, the subject of grants on a larger scale, for similar
purposes, would come before the House, when the laim of this
church to the particular support of the Legislature would be dis-
cussed, perhaps, under more favourable circumstances.
After a few observations from Mr. Maberly, Lord Binning
withdrew his motion, with the consent of the House. ,
IRISH ESTIMATES. _ _

The House having resolved itself intd a Committee of Supply,
Lord PALMERSTON moved that a sum not exceeding
174,0001. should be granted for defraying the expences of the
Disembodied Militia.
Mr, HUME objected to the vote, on the ground that the Staff
was too large, and that the whole establishment- seemed to be
kept up for musical purposes alone. The necessity for this he
could not see, nor for the continuance of Paymasters, Adju-
tants, and Surgeons, with nothing to do.
'Lord PALMERSTON said,- that 89 Adjutants were re-
tained, because there were 89 Regiments, and it was necessary
to. have a skeleton staff, with non-commissioned officers resi-
dent at head-quarters, whose efficiency was ascertained.
The Resolution was then agreed to.
The next Resolution was for granting the sum of 116,7031.
to defray the expences of the Irish Disembodied Militia, which
was agreed to.
The next 108,9881. to defray the expences of the Commissa-
riat Department in Ireland.
Mr. HUME stated his conviction that in no part of the
British dominions was there so great a waste of public
money as in Ireland. When the Irish Exchequer was
united with that of Great Britain, it was to be expected
that cognizance would be taken more correctly of the ex-
pences, on their being submitted to the Board here ; but,
after all, there was no country in which so much jobbing
was carried on. He found that the interest of the deb and the
military charges tra:-• riP together the sum of six millions and
a half which li:ngland expended upon Ireland, the revenue of
Ireland for the last year being 6,150,0001. There was also the
grant to. the Lord Lieutenant of 30,0001. which ought to be re-
duced. Upon the whole he was of opinion that the consolida-.

tion of the offices connected with this subject would be attended I
with the best effeqts to the country.
11Ir. GOULBURN declined entering into the whole financial
state of Ireland at the present moment, but assured the lion.
Gentleman that there was a consolidation as far as respected
those grants, and that other arrangements were in progress,
which, he trusted, would expedite the object which all must.
have in.view. • _ •

Mr. HUME expressed his satisfaction at the statement of
the lion. Gentleman, and the Resolution was agreed to.
The next Resolution was 122,7241. for the Barrack Depart,
ment in Ireland. _ _
Mr. HUME said that there were no less than 287 barracks
in Ireland, 107 of which were permanent. He was anxious to
have some explanation on this head; and also on the sum of
30,0001. said to be expended in their repair.
Mr. GOULBURN observed, that the number of Barracks
was necessary to preserve the tranquillity of the country. '
Mr. S. RICE said that the large grants were, for counties not
in a state• of disturbance. In Derry, for instance, where there
was no disturbance, there were eleven barracks; and in Lime-
rick, where there was disturbance, they had only two.
Mr. DENNIS BROWNE defended the system of the bar-
rack departr:'..nt, as it was administered in Ireland.
Mr.' GOULBURN and Mr. HUME explained.
Mr. PEEL said it was necessary to maintain a number of
barracks in the county of Derry, on account of the prevalence
of illicit distillation ; but those barracks were maintained at a
very low rate of expence, being only at the annual cost of 251. each.
Lord LONDONDERRY observed, that if the Government
reduced the duty on spirits in Ireland, it woad counteract the
view which the Government contemplated, namely, of diminish-
ing the consumption of ardent spirits among the poor.
Mr. S. RICE contended that the high duty produced a
greater consumption of a cheaper kind of spirit by the bounty
which it gave to illicit distillation.
Mr. HUME adverted to the duty on tobacco, to prove that
when the duty was increased the revenue was diminished.,
Mr. C. GRANT stated that in many instances Government
was compelled to retain and keep up barracks on account of the
impossibility of disposing of them, even at a considerable lesi.
The vote was then agreed to.
Mr. BENNET then suggested the propriety of reporting
progress.
Mr. GOULBURN hoped the House would allow him: to
' submit the votes for the Charitable Institutions, which were
then suffering from delay.
19,0001. were then voted to the House of Industry, in Dublin.
The next vote was 5,0001. for the Lunatic Asylum.---A greed to.
Some other votes for Public Charities were agreed,to, after
which the House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be
brought up this day, and to be taken Into further consideration
on Wednesday next.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at,OxE o'CLocic