The Sun.
London, England, 1831-04-13 00:00:00

)"..00111/1.

is one of the ‘vorst enemies of Reform. The Gallant
Officers htwever, didwt*titure to deny one of his asser-
eiclrs. He had never ililitised his sentiments. He was
4.ce(urnier, but the particular measure before the House
slid not comp up to his idea of Reform. He did not accust
Otis Majesty's Ministers of having deluded tire country, by
holding out expectations that their Reform Bill would
make bread aml clothing cheap but if they had not, others
had. The people had been drlnded, but they had disco_
vexed their error upon reflection, and would be &hatted no
longer.—(Hear, ltear.)—lf the measure wa.s to be what
the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell) said it should
be, he then was an enemy to the measure.
Sir C. FORBES said that Edinburgh and Dundee
were not the only places in Scotland where evil conse-
quences had ensued from the introduction of the Reform
Bill. Much mischief had likewise been done in Perth
and Glasgow, in the latter of which places the mob went
so far as to hoist the tri-co!oured Rag.
Lord MAHON wished to know whether, if any propo-
sition should be made to preserve the relative proportion
of the representatives of England, Ireland, and Scotland
as it now stood, Ministers would consider that it involved
a violation of the principle of the Bill ?
No answer was given to this question.
The petition was then ordered to lie en the table.

Mr. WrsE's motion respecting education in Ireland, and
Mr. GUEST'S, respecting the pensions payable out of the
Civil List, which stood for to-day, were both postponed,
the latter to Thursday the 21st instant.
PUBLIC WORKS IN IRELAND.

Mr. STANLEY moved for leave to bring in a Bill for
the promotion of public works in Ireland. lie stated, that
after the explanations which were made, on a previous
evening, of the views of Government, by a Noble Lord,
on moving for a vote of 50,0001., he should not go at
present into any details, but would content himself with
moving for leave to bring in the Bill.
Leave to bring in the Bill was then given.
LAW REFORM.—IRELAND.

Mr. CRAMPTON, after making a few observations,
which were inaudible in the gallery, moved for le3ve to
bring in a Bill to improve the administration of the law in
Ireland.

Mr. O'CONNELL slid that this Bill, like the play of
Hamlet with the part of Hamlet left out, omitted the
most important matter. The objr-et of the Bill was to
assimilate the laws of Ireland to those of England, and
yet not a word was mentioned in the Bill abort the grand
jury laws. He understood that the last Government had
seen the evil of the present grand jury system in Ireland,
and had prepare I a Bill to assimilate it to the English sr,-
tern. If it was the intention of the present Government
to bring in a particular Bill for that purpose, he would
not at present say any thing on the ,!übjeet.

Mr. CRAMPTON said it was true that a Bill had been
prepared by the late Government on the subject of the
grand jury system, and he promised to give it the fullest
consideration. It seas very probable that it might be
brought in, but he could not give any pledge on the sub-
ject.
Mr. O'CONNELL raid, that there was nothing of
which the people of Ireland had so much right. toto com-
plain as the gross partiality displayed is the selection of
juries. It appeared from a report presented to that House,
that the Sheriffs in Dublin were elected foiparty purposes,
and were obliged to give party pledges previous to their
election. (Here there was a cry of " Order ;" in conse-
quence of slight confusion in the Holmes) Ohl" ex.
claimed the Hon. and Learned Member, " this is a subject
of very little importance,—it is only a matter relating to
Ireland,—nothing but a proposition to improve the admi-
nistration of justice in Ireland, which is not worth listen-
ing to."---(Ord,r being restored, the Hon. and Learned
Wernher resumed his ergurnent.) He said that the lists of
the special juries were all made out by the deputy of Lord
Seymour Conway, who always put in theta members of
the corporation, mostly of little property, and as little
expectations. This deputy had the selection of all special
juries for the law courts of Dublin, including the Court
of King's Bench. This was considered an evil by the
last Administration, and they therefore prepared a Bill
for the purpose of putting an end to it. By a report
made to that House, it appeared that any person, oa
giving twenty guineas to the sub-sheriff, might have
whatever jury he pleased. The Bill which the last
Government brought in to assimilate the jury laws of
Ireland to those of England, had been withdrawn on the
understanding that it was to be reintroduced early this
session ; but now the House was told that that Bill, re-
lating as it did to a most important matter, might be
brought in perhaps. He could not he content with such
vague promises; he did not ask for any thing unreason-
able ; he asked for impartial Juries, and he called upon
the present Government to bring forward a measure to
promote the attainment of so de.irable an object. He be-
lieved the Irish Insolvent Act would shortly expire. He
therefore thought that it would be best to leave all mat-
ters connected with that out of the present Bill, and have
a particular Bill to regulate the Insolvent Court of Ireland.
The manner in which the Judges—one of them in par-
ticular—conducted the business of that Court did not give
satisfaction ; and it was his duty to present to the House
a petition from a large body of mercantile persons, calling
upon the House to consider the state of the insolvent law.
He implored the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr.
Crampton) to leave nut of the Bill any alteration of the
ejectment law. There were at present facilities enough
for landlords to crush their tenants. Since the Union
several Statutes had been passed in favour of the landlords
and against the tenantry. There was now a servile war
raging in Ireland, of poverty against property, and he was
afraid that the discontent of the lower &asses would only
be aggravated, if any steps were taken to increase the
power of the landlords over the tenantry.
Mr. CRAMPTON said, that with respect to the Bill
of the late Government on the subject of the Grand Jury
laws, he bad not had as yet time fully to consider it, but
he promised to give it his hest attention. The disturb-
ances in Ireland were not attributable, he believed, to the
administration of justice in that country, which was as
pure and as impartial as in England. The proposed Bill
contained one or two clauses for the purpose of giving re-
lief to such persons as had been committed to prison for
contempt of Court which had been the result of ignorance,
Sir E. SUGDEN considered the statement of the Hon.
and Learned Member (Mr. Crampton) respecting the
Grand Jury which had been brought forward he the
late Government, very fair. Ile was glad to see that a
clause was to be inserted in the proposed Bill, to give re-
lief to those unfortunate persons who were suffering for
contempt of Court. When he introduced his Bill to re-
lieve a similar class of persons in England, he had pro-
posed extending the provisions to Ireland ; but there were
certain technical difficulties, which prevented him doing
so. From what had fallen from the Hon. and Learned
Member for Waterford, it appeared that be was an advo-
cate for cheap law, except where landlords were concerned,
Now he (Sir E. Sugden) would be disposed to give his
support to any process efficacious enough to prevent liti-
gation and expence, which must ultimately fall on the
poor tenant.

Mr. HUAIE complained of the equivocal manner in
which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Cramp-
ton) had spoken respecting the most important question
affecting Ireland—the Grand Jury system. He conceived
that the same facilities should be afforded for forming im-
partial juries in Ireland as existed in England.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
not pledge himself to bring forward the particular Bill to
which the Hon- Member for Middlesex had alluded, but
he would pledge himself that a measure should be brought
forward on the part of Government, as soon as he and his
colleagues could turn their attention to the subject.
Mr. RUTHVEN said, that Ireland ought to have the
h.snefit of the English laws, wherever they could be ap-
Ilied to the former country.
The motion was then agreed to.
PRIVILEGES._(PECUNIARY PENALTIES.)
Mr. C. WYNN moved, that the House do agree with
the resolutions passed on a former evening by a Committee
of the fluu,". The object of the resolutions was to relax
the privileges of
the n
repaired it, se, in cases where the public in-
terestsand with the approbation of the Speaker.
Under the system now proposed to be adopted, Bills for
the amendment of the
crimini law, containing clauses
ward
whichi inflicted
l'ul
ofi
trpenalties, might be brought for-
n the House
venience would resultd. . from which great public con-
R. Po
After
andEEL a short Mr. conversati
HUME, onthe r between Sir
W. RIDLEY, Sir
m..,luti
,
were agreed to.
CIVIL LIST 1:11.1Ln.5 wVe
The House then resolved itself into aCommittee of the
who's House on the Civil List Bill.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEquEa
moved
that a blank, left in one of the clauses of the 114 he filled
up with the words lc That the sum of 510,0001. be
granted out of the Consolidated Fund for the support of
his Majesty's household, and the honour and dignity of
the Crown."
Mr. HUME having been a member of the Committee
which resolved that this sum should he reduced by
12,0001., felt it his duty to move as an amendment that
only the sun of 498,0001. be granted for the purpose

specified.
Mr. O'CONNELL seconded the amendment.
Mr. ROBINSON spoke in support of the amendment.
Sir R. PEEL entirely approved of the course which