The Sun.
London, England, 1838-12-22 00:00:00

again expressed his opinion that the petition had not suffi-
cient energy, proposed to add the following to it by way of

rider:—

" That the Acts of 1815 and 1823, relating to the importa-
tion of corn, and more especially the existing law of 1838,
passed with a full knowledge of the pernicious effects of the
former Acts, are instances of ignorant and selfish legislation,
which stamp with indelible disgrace the Parliament which
passed them ; and the continuance of this law, fraught as it is
with cruel injustice to the industrious consumers, is inconsis-
tent with the duty which all Governments owe to the people,
of keeping open to them the best and cheapest markets for an
abund int supply of food ; and that this law is alike opposed to
the principles of humanity, and the peace and welfare of the
country."
He conceived that a stronc, expression of opinion from this
community, embodied in a shape' something like this, would be
useful, as tending speedily and entirely to remove the evil
against which the Chamber proposed to petition.
Mr. J. B. SMITH would second M. Dyer's proposition by
way of eliciting discussion, but without pledging himself as to
what course he should hereafter take.

The PRISIDRNT presumed that gentlemen who moved and
seconded a proposition intended to vote for it.
Mr. SMITII said he should be guided by circumstances.
Mr. COBDEN introduced his observations by apologising, if

he had, either in matter or manner, given offence at the-last
meeting. This question, he continued, was not a personal
question ; it was one of prominent importance to the whole of
the country ; and prompted by a sense of duty, he must say
he was disappointed that the Directors had not come before the
Chamber with a different petition, for it was with that expecta-
tion alone that he consented to withdraw his amendment at the
last meeting. It was then expressly requested, by almost
every individual who spoke in advocacy of the adjournment,
that the petition proposed by the Directors should be altered,
with the view of incorporating certain facts, many of which
were new, and others were so condensed as to become novel and
new ; and he must reiterate his disappointment that those facts
had not been incorporated.
Mr. TOOTAL said the petition had been consented to by Mr.
Smith, with the addition of the two paragraphs at the end.
He mentioned this to show that the instructions of the Chamber
were, not that the whole petition should be re-modelled, but
that some observations should be introduced at the end, to
strengthen it.
Mr. COBDEN—Much as he respected his friend Mr. Smith,
and grateful as he felt for his exertions in this cause, he did
not in this matter refer to him. He appealed to the sense of
that meeting, and he reiterated that on the last occasion it
was expressed, and generally concurred in, that it was desir-
able the petition should incorporate some of the facts then
brought before the Chamber. And without such facts, he
maintained that the reasoning which had been given in the
petition would have no more effect or influence than if it were
the thesis of some Dublin collegian; unless the Chamber
brought forward facts, the reasoning which had been given by
Adam Smith, and bandied about for many years past in the
newspapers, would have no weight whatever in the quarter to
which they were appealing. The facts which Mr. Smith
brought forward with regard to the progress of manufactures
abroad, should unquestionably be referred to; the progress of
mechanical spinning abroad should have been referred to.
If the facts were called in question he presumed the stockings
would not be disputed; but supposing the facts should
be questioned, then there was excellent ground for an ad-
ditional adjournment for the Directors to inquire into them ;
but they should not be debatable; and when ascertained,
they should be forced upon the Government with all the
authority that this Chamber could give them. There was
another question, the facts of which might be usefully re-
ferred to—he alluded to the great commercial system esta-
blished in Germany, upon which our prejudices arid our na-
tional pugnacity had been invoked, but upon which those who
had the guidance of public opinion had studiously avoided the
truth. The great commercial league was regarded by the
German people as a most excellent measure. Its intention
was to unite the German family in one body, as far as com-
merce, interest, and one uniform line of custom-houses could
unite them ; and as far as that design went it was entitled
to our highest admiration. It was an union which, for the
first time in the annals of the world, had been formed without
a political bond ' • it was not an union of persons eating up the
nation's strength in the disastrous incidents of legitimacy and
disputed succession ; it was not a perishable treaty made by
diplomatists on paper to be broken and evaded as hundreds
had been before, but a commercial confederacy : in fact it
was a partnership entered into by the German people
among themselves, for the purpose of facilitating their
trade, allowing travellers and dealers to pass the frontiers
and transact their business from Belgium to Russia, and
from the Tyrol to the Baltic without hindrance. As far
as these objects were concerned, the German league was
a great and benign measure ; but we had been told that it
was formed as a hostile measure towards England and English
trade, and that the Prussian Cabinet had no other motive but
that of injuring us. So from this it seemed our prejudices must
be appealed to, and our combativeness, altogether misdirected,
be sent forth fighting with Russia and every country, except
the statute which alone prevented the extension of our interest.
That commercial league had other objects more important
than injuring us, namely, the settlement of the tariff of the
whole country. But that tariff was changeable. For three
years a congress of States had met to arrange the tariff. The
Chamber was aware that the highest duty imposed upon the
introduction of manufactured goods was 150 per cent., or
nearly ls. 6d. per pound; but when he was travelling within
the pale of the league, he made it his business to procure
semi-official introductions with the view of obtaining accurate
information, and it was his firm conviction, from what he heard,
that including Saxony itself, there was not an intelligent man
in Prussia, Wurtemburg, or Bavaria, who did not say " it is in
your own power to reduce this tariff one-half, upon the only
condition that you take the produce we have to give you."
And he would give the Chamber the verywords of an intelligent
official man in Berlin on this subject : he said, " Send us a
commercial representative, a man representing a commercial
people, and understanding the 'interests of a commercial
people, and you will find no difficulty in having an extensive
commerce here; but, if you send an agriculturist, a man re-
presenting an agricultural people, to do the behests of the do-
minant interests, we can have no trade with you, for we are
agriculturists ourselves." The extent to which the league had
reached, solely on account of the obstacles to trade which our
Corn-laws had interposed, the Chamber might estimate when
he mentioned that it comprised twenty-five millions of the
most intelligent people on the continent, that it included four
monarchies with four capitals, with a score of minor sove-
reignties, each having a nucleus in its capital for the consump-
tion of luxuries. They would now see the extent of the injury
and to what extent the league was calculated to foster the in-
dustry of a state like Saxony, which now, instead of being a
kind of manufactory for millions of people, supplied 26
millions. But this was the most important element in the
opposition they must expect from Germany—not only the
fabrics or goods which were manufactured there, but the
security and confidence that was visible. A feeling of se-
curity had sprung up within the last three years which had
induced and invited capitalists to establish manufactories, to
spread capital through canals and railroads, and joint-stock
banks; this security had enabled the Germans to put out and
sustain paper money, and all this security and confidence were
the growth of the league, and would become the elements of
a powerful competition with ourselves, seeing that we had
hitherto almost exclusively possessed this feeling of security '
and confidence. At Dresden and Leipsic a joint-stock bank
had been started, with a capital of 500,000 dollars. He had
one of their notes in his hand, and one of the Directors had
told him that not a shilling of paper money could have been
got into circulation. Surely, also, some reference should be
made in the petition to the fact of the great internal improve.
ments going on abroad, in the shape of railways, roads, and
canals. These, again, had hitherto formed our exclusive
monopoly, but they were a monopoly no longer. Railways
were being constructed in every part of the Continent.
Belgium was more completely intersected with them
than any other country in the world. In Prussia
they were running one through the empire. In Sax-
ony one was nearly completed between Dresden and
Leipsic, and from Magdeburg to Leipsic ; and probably next
year one might go from Hull to Leipsic, the centre of
Europe by steam ; thus giving the stocking makers of Lem-
nitz an equality with the Nottingham manufacturers. Austria,
Russia, and even Switzerland were busily constructing railways,
and surely these circumstances ought to be referred to as one
reason why we could not afford to be left in this adverse po-
sition as to the price of food. But there was one point he
would have kept prominently in view, and that was the im-
pending evils that hang over the heads of the working classes.
That should be made prominent before Parliament, for in his
belief nothing but invoking the alarms of the landed aristo-
cracy would have the slightest effect upon their measures.
Surely they (the Chamber), sitting in the centre of those
multitudes of labourers who might very speedily be thrown
out of employment, and consequently without the means
of subsistence—surely, he said, it became them (the
Chamber), to read the signs of the times, before they could
be seen in London. Ought they not to be the first to give
the warning? Why was this incendiary language and these
torch-light meetings ? Think you men left their families
if they had comfortable homes, if they were well fed and
well clad, if they bad a good bed, and were simply comfort.
able? No. They go to these meetings because their in-
dustry is unprofitable, though severe ; because there is an
immense mass of human, physical suffering abroad; therefore,
it became the interest, no less than the duty, of the Chamber
to represent to Government the evils of such a state of things.
He was not sanguine, though of a sanguine temperament, that
anything the Chamber could do or say would have the slightest
chance of avail with those who had the power of legislating
for their own exclusive interest, irresponsible to the people at
large. But unless an effort were made, commensurate with
the evils impending over us, the responsibility would not lie
with those who lived in London, or with those who were fox-
hunting in the country, or living luxuriously abroad, but with
ourselves. He had prepared a petition, which he would read
to the meeting, but not move its adoption. Mr. Cobden then
read the following petition :
" HUMBLY SUENVETU—
" That your petitioners deem it their imperative duty to call
the immediate attention of your Honourable House to the
consideration of the existing laws affecting the free importation
of food.
" That your petitioners would premise that you are already
acquainted with the nature and extent of the cotton trade ;
combining, as it does, a larger amount of capital, with greater
enterprise and skill, and giving more extension and better
regulated employment than any other branch of manufacturing
industry. This source of increasing population and wealth,
which is now become essential to our well-being as a nation,
owes no sort of allegiance to the soil of England ; and if it
has grown up with a rapidity unparalleled in the annals of
trade, history affords us many examples to show how

speedily it may, by misgovernment, be banished to. other
shores.
That your petitioners view, with great alarm, the-rapid
extension of foreign manufactures ; and they have, par-
ticular, to deplore the consequent diminution of a profitable
trade with the continent of Europe; to which, notwithstatd
iog the great increase in population since the termination of
the war, the exports have actually been less in value during
the last five years, than they were during the first five years after
the peace; and whilst the demand for all those articles in
which the greatest amount of the labour of our artisans is com-
prised has been constantly diminishing, the exportation of the
raw materials has been as rapidly increasing.
" That several nations of the continent not only produce suf-
ficient manufactures for their own consumption, but they sue.
cessfully compete with us in neutral foreign markets. Amongst
other instances that might be given to show the formidable
growth of the cotton manufacture abroad, is that of the cotton
hosiery of Saxony, of which owing to its superior cheapness,
nearly four times as much is exported as from this country,
the Saxons exporting annually to the United States of America
alone a quantity equal to the exports from England, to all parts
of the world ; whilst the still more important fact remains to be
adduced, that Saxon hose, manufactured from English yarn,
after paying a duty of 20 per cent., are beginning to be intro-
duced into this country, and sold for home consumption, at
lower prices than they can be produced for by our own ma-
nufacturers.
" That further proof of the rapid progress, in manufactu-
ring industry going on upon the continent, is afforded in the
fact that establishments for the making of all kinds of machi.
nery for spinning and weaving cotton, flax, and wool, have
lately been formed in nearly all the large towns of Europe,
in which skilled English artisans are at the present moment
diligently employed in torching the native mechanics to make
machines, copied from models of the newest inventions of this
country ; and not a week passes in which individuals of the
same valuable class do not quit the workshops of Manchester,
Leeds, and Birmingham, to enter upon similar engagements
abroad.
" That the superiority we have hitherto possessed in our
unrivalled roads and canals, is no longer peculiar to this coun-
try. Railroads, to a great extent, and at a less cost than in
England, are proceeding in all parts of Europe and the
United States of America ; whilst, from the want of profit-
able investment at home, capital is constantly seeking employ-
ment in foreign countries ; and thus supplying the greatest de-
ficiency under which our rivals previously laboured.
" That whilst calling the attention of your Honourable
House to facts calculated to excite the utmost alarm for the
well-being of our manufacturing prosperity, your petitioners
cannot too earnestly make known that the evils are occasioned
by our impolitic and unjust legislation, which, by preventing
the British manufacturer from exchanging the produce of his

labour for the corn of other countries, enables our foreign
rivals to purchase their food at one half the price at which it
is sold in this market; and your petitioners declare it to be
their solemn conviction that this is the commencement only of
a state of things which, unless arrested by a timely repeal of
all protective duties upon the importation of corn, and all fo-
reign articles of subsistence, must eventually transfer our
manufacturing industry into other and rival countries.
" That deeply impressed with such apprehensions, your
petitioners cannot look with indifference upon nor conceal
from your Honourable House the perilous condition of those
surrounding multitudes whose subsistence from day to day de-
pends upon the prosperity of the cotton trade. Already the
million have raised the cry for food. Reason, compassion,
and sound policy demand that the excited passions be allayed,
otherwise evil consequences may ensue. The continuance of
the loyal attachment of the people to the established institu-
tions of the country can never be permanently secured on any
other grounds than those of universal justice. Holding one of
those eternal principles to be—the inalienable right of every
man freely to exchange the results of his labour for the pro-
ductions of other people; and maintaining the practice of
protecting one part of the community at the expense of all other
classes to be unsound and unjustifiable, your petitioners earnestly
implore your Honourable House to repeal all laws relating to
the importation of foreign corn and other foreign articles of
subsistence, and to carry out to the fullest extent, both as
affects agriculture and manufactures, the true and peaceful
principles of free Trade, by removing all existing obstacles to
the unrestricted employment of industry and capital.—And
your petitioners, &c."
In throwing this petition upon the table he should merely my
that he regarded the addition made by the Directors to the
former petition, as recognizing the principle of free trade. It
probably might have been a little less ambiguously expressed,
but let not the Chamber lope sight of the important fact that
their discussion would command considerable attention else-
where. The proceedings of the last meeting had already at-
tracted the attention of the people in London and other places,
therefore it was important that whatever petition were put for-
ward, should be clear, emphatic, and precise, that it might
operate upon the Cabinet, and more especially upon the Mem-
ber for Manchester, who was a Cabinet Minister. Mr. Poulett
Thomson should be made to see that the people of Man

. .
chester were so intent upon this subject, that he, as their
representative, and as a Minister of the Crown, must iden-
tify himself with them. That Mr. Thomson had not hi-
therto done so, he (Mr. Cobden) publicly maintained ; Mr.

Thomson had not come forward in the House of Commons,
as an advocate of these great principles, in the way that
Mt. Huskisson did when he was representing a monopoly
interest. Mr. Thomson must know that he was returned
to Parliament by a free trade interest and no other ; and he
must know that, as that interest claimed nothing but what
was just, he ought to avow himself a patriotic minister, and
no longer bow the knee to an imperious landed Aristocracy.
That he had done so—that he had bowed the knee to the
landed Aristocracy, he (Mr. Cobden) had evidence to prove.
When he was in Berlin, au official in the Prussian government
told him the Cabinet had declared that the Corn-laws were the
only obstacle to a trade with Germany. Mr. Cobden read an
extract to this effect, from a letter written by this gentleman,
in which the writer mentioned, from authority, that the Prus-
sian Minister in London had repeatedly pressed Mr. Poulett
Thomson to admit corn from Prussia, but that the application
was disregarded. This fact might easily be ascertained.
Either Mr. Poulett Thomson must be a bona fide and staunch
representative of Manchester, or Manchester must depend upon
herself. With these remarks he should leave the Chamber to
deal with the petition as they thought proper.
The original petition was here formally moved by Mr. MAc_
rtean, and seconded by Mr. TOOTAL.

Mr. DYER then moved, as an amendment, the adoption of
Mr. Cobden's petition, and in the course of hie address he re-
peated his former arguments for a repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. R. H. GREG, of Quarry Bank, seconded the amendment.
He thought the original petition, as Mr. Cobden had said, too
much in the nature of a thesis, and too moderate, and he sup-
ported the other not only because there were more facts stated,
but because it was written with greater vigour and earnestness.
It had been remarked by a great writer, that no great body of
men ever got justice except through the influence of fear ; and
it was universally so—you could not command attention unless
you showed that you were in earnest, unless you threatened.
Catholic Emancipation and Parliamentary Reform were car-
ried in this way, and the same plan would be necessary to
effect the repeal of the Corn-laws. That was a cause of life
and death, not only with the masses of this district, but with the
whole population of England. There was an immense mass of
interest united against them, and, therefore, he must say that
he could see no chance for the repeal of these laws except by
the assumption of a determined tone. Perhaps too much had
been said as to the competition of foreign rivals in markets
common to them and to us, but there was one fact which
should have preceded all those remarks. It was this that
every country had its protective duties. What was the
effect ? Why to give those countries the entire supply of
their own markets, and what was that but cutting us off first
from one, then from another, and finally from all ? We knew
that it was impossible to compete in the German market with
the protective duty of Is. 6d. a pound ; we knew that in Ame-
rica it was impossible to compete with the protective duty of
20 per cent., therefore, whether we could compete in common
markets or not, it was evident we were being driven first from
one market, then from another, and that finally we should
be beaten from all. Now this was a question independent
of foreign competition. We merely supplied these markets
till they could supply themselves. In the beginning of last
year, he had furnished to him a list of foreign orders to this
country for machinery only to the amount of five hundred
thousand pounds I This machinery was entirely for Belgium,
Switzerland, and Germany, and the Chamber might readily
suppose that the gap which these nations felt in the supply
of their own markets would now easily be filled up. And
be might mention that the effect of this increasing compe-
tition had already begun to he felt in our own markets ;
that last year, in his own concern, they had to break up 200
looms which used to supply one market ; and that this year
they should have to break up 200 more, which were used to
supply another mai ket. With such facts as these to refer to,
a mild, timid, and reasoning petition was not likely to make
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We had seen that Switzerland now exported three-fourths of
all her manufactures, although no country was worse situated
for the purposes of exportation except Austria, for sbe had no
ports, yet she exported so much after supplying her own
markets. The increase of spinning mills upon the continent
had been most rapid, and his brother, who had last year
visited a great variety of these establishments, reported, what
he ( Mr. Greg) had previous information of, that their ma.
ebinery was fully equal to ours ; that it was made upon the
spot ; and that though it cost something more than ours, that
was owing to the immense profits making by the mechanists. The
productionsof their spinning mills exceeded the production of
ours—that is to say, their mills averaged from 19 and 21 hanks of
40's twist, and there were mills that turned off 19 banks of 60's
twist in a day. This might appear almost incredible ; but a
mechanic, who had visited the mill he alluded to, told him it
was done bona fide, and said to him, " I bad no conception of
the rate they are going on in these countries ; and, my word,
before seven years are over you must look about you or you'll
be beat." As to the medium qualities of cloth, there was no
doubt whatever that the articles of Switzerland and Germany
would beat us out of any common market after they had sup-
plied the demand for their own consumption. With regard to
America, they beat us absolutely in some particular articles.
He would read an account of the exports of America for the
the last few years, to show the regular increase which had
been going on, and which could only be accounted for by
the handsome profits derived by the manufacturers. He
had here a large packet of American grey and printed
cloth, on which, whilst his own concern in 1835 were
clearing fivepence a piece, the Americans were clearing a
dollar. In 1835 the value of exported American goods
amounted to two million eight hundred thousand dollars. He
had no particular return for the last two years, bat within the
last eighteen months he had the best means of knowing that
the increase in their exports was such that twenty thousawl