The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-04 00:00:00

Ise in,t"N
popu.— - tee e. the pen
u produce, no 1,a,, ,?setre
as Pe• Thle
IstWa a difficultylty he felt, but
1n reference th.'
well lit forwar
or Preston lag fi.:tlistpo'll7...t its consequences, and on them must fall
the tie 01°.:_nolar_?f having raised the difficulty.—(Cheers
lent
and
ikdesirableidti
pc,loll;l4l;r.enarrilieieneti,hpaavniinittigcnabe.)—The difficulty was incurred by
brought forward by the King's
t be a source
bringtheir advocated- by the Press and the
inrd anal path Who
ht that it. ever set it up,the culty
tinlY tild that
e 1 owever e was how to deal
sreat as this difficulty was, he felt
tad---bot °°.
vsz(e;4„,eri,iiliclron: venture to commit thie proposed suicide
vithout
the Opposition. )-1t; however, great
l~a
up ef °rev° akyltlP M u b
gwas the eta all the made,. he should regret it ; and he must
btitike,
pror,,s intelligent portion of the country would
at it otherwiae•
with the greatest concern. It was pro-
,w view °I rhea gte''' if the
tioute„ Pain were proposed at the market place of a
ice that I. u05..0, it, it would hly have the approval of a large
,faithful to s of t
tsh,,,ivecr,:il,ketpkiobratger:.; but the same parties would also support
it if the
a wry al they'
raight and if that voice were to be listened to
eity
._ es,siiise4Well Sweep away all institutions at once. If
looked. lik.,"v 0 consult the interests of those who were
one iantv.th the moat to suffer by it, they should consult.. those who
Mance Ahe ;Net, Iht"lligenee, and were best acquainted with those
the-y .
wanted an example of complete anarchy,
for wit'oo vslntioq to Belgium, and see how the effects of a re-
Refertn.
of
`1 `lt his
f. ;17 a, 0
,1 itintite purpose had fallen on the great
e frames... the t 7 sex. classes. In conversations out of doors
to grannee i„, . e„. ""Ject, he had not met with a single person who
wing tosral't• bald it apps,heo,..
110 as to how it would tvoik. It was
sec could e°'`... t• . • rattle en •
gee!•tsoleot Ina the King's Government, and that Go-
:rgehaet
tiorr7oo.ibi,t
p"Zottil:e wise in bringing it forward ; but each
armed to he in doubt as to what should
counit,rvy.,;:h'the
itki,4:•tikeThie.y id, " What can he done? If it be not
,ge o 'wheo 1,415 y ""n6 of the people are so much excited, that
pert, !c, a revolution." But he did not see why his
by someslijoal thevintlo.l4
,near him should not take some means to
hat hP
it,koePrt s.? hettoielr.: of the people.—(Cheers from the Opp°•
teficially
sestc tit, Much of the excitement (as we under-
anYr 'Loped Gentleman) was caused by this being an-
be,t 1,4t.:g coining from the Crown; but he felt satisfied
merest ~00 ,16,4
,otr such announcement, the people would he sa•
field.( hetut the i:tett
_Much less sweeping, and much more mode-
(erard
of
thr Reform. For his own part, when he first
felon's: ur
ig #eh ns,teiee Nate it' Pisa, he expected that it would be one of MO.,
[ not
_Pr: Na'( repoae."
°M., but lie was greatly surprised when he heard
;router:lt:6o, t the plan in that House. He was much in
irese, age
1;r1t, he .• turn as the Hon. Member for Preston, who
Friend
.10 a° 4 did learn it, scarcely knew what to make of it, so
:are to vast) no, lit beyond even his expectations.—(Hear.)
iVith rellt 4", itl*,gged to thank the House for the attention with
he shoeg that "id listened to him.
seed,' if sits at with
He must say, in conclu •
as per sob with " every respect for his Hon. Friends around
which 11'' r trefrain 141.'4°Y of Whom he plainly lng acted, he could
hear.)---;llet ,i-o'i.ona thus openly and declaring his sen-
ient One '4O, the Measure they had introduced.—(Loud and
greatest loge aeoUclo Ileers ft urn
the, Opposition Benches followed
Honse. althea p 't°l3 of this spec)
was oat
t S4.II•AIERSTON and th Marquis of TAVISTOCIC rose
he wecerorose, rlthy ibetietomosinent,but the former, though loudly called
,tad at AO he " gave way, and
assis et es et cps
eiry, a to he said )1 LS of TAVISTOCK addressed the House
itS se e should drily the address of his Noble Friend'
other boll! rY few inuments, but after what had fallen from
11011" f 44 "' Meinl
ee dist _ oat avoid 'et who last addressed the House, he could
tstein
_,, aayiii traatog the first opportunity that presented itself
. if
eeiigona
°le:lk
,tsrords. The Hon. Member seemed to cast
ie very Y. ,401, led tLe Majesty's Ministers for not having in-
ns would `'oif „Nos borough of Tavistock.
e eat th as well as Callington
Hear. )---haVist.,ol .41.tke,
of
i,xo:e
,iboroughs which re to be disfranchised.
ko,olokayiiiikkg 414,0t:4
;etas.h,r,.. Nor f.,
.n)— Hecertainly so understood the Hon.
I reply, he would say, that if the Hon.
eel. each. Brlojel would bring forward a motion to have Tavistock
d'otlit if It should have his cordial support.—(Cheers.)
lured Witt"
alteratioo, ^t (th_"e toned from making such motion, greatly did
rity tee sredfor, • ta.quis) mistake the character of the Duke
that thee._ll ;Rio b6e.., if lie should ever influence his tenants in
the inotince ion' trir ,40:,.as
The
the manner in which they should give
:king. ' ? rqkki, The Hon. Member said, that if he (the
his pura.ser•elit 01;1 ,14isititi,Id.t.411teTbev.i•tock) 'would give him a helCcrown, I e
I any e „e$ i_o vow . ins the return of two members for Tavis-
ted tr, •Ce ,if the Hon. Member would give him a half-
boltue
e‘yould return him twenty half-crowns if ever
ithouti. SI( 5ie....,t) Bedford made the attempt.—(Hear.)—The
Insteadrlitrs!, :,1;!:.r complained of the line being drawn which
ctly the
11°,i0 i",ut4teodertva.lsitock and excluded Callington. Now, with-
in elel!laislit-101 \tits' ""Y thet the importance of the latter place, he
ecause st. eT4 it contained a population of 1,320 persons,
Tau,
contained upwards of 6,000,4 popula-
rld distinction.' s
be tostto' s ‘rs °eater thantote' that of Bedford ; and lie might also
e glad t",.rerifi:. `aittl,lt town would be also left to itself, as far as
endous 00,0 ?, he y influence to be used by the Duke of Bedford.
tethse
small tot
itetiutit
twnfonr_lll+,l:4...s_, lie would now say. a word as to the
sway°l thstels Na, appea.;(!ni House, and his feeling, with respect to
hitn that the Govrnment of this
QOO v'ott:il'y 0;1 44',`,:t es,„ been carried onion principles of
bnproP 6,01 iioe ik.eet:ii,i.ee,atnd wasteful extravagancts—that patro-
-1 btolsiee lot
roliilthl sit
ti4n Ike of 1, up for the purpose of maintaining the
uk k
auto.), 000, Ilitltllittiroent„;
at,firowns and that which was known by
flt re 3 apiri:t . fur the purpose of carrying on
tri
'snore
the sense of the country. The people
by Mao
tinot th fully than at any former period, that they
be
1, t 'ef sttieri,el and
influence in the legislative councils of
merely °v/our Nisei 114 they naturally sought for that change which
Ott the :eat: to them. He sincerely hoped and believed
cut. in
di' ofcr;,
nstitute LA out tire now before the House would have that
)1 a fesv iil Ole! 4741i4'. HeithWould give them all they could reasonably
,r of ascoe
rsafe tititelned oned it would cue.) the 'monopoly so long !
an Wow" ,toe'' the g "Y the higber orders, and give a fair expression
h of rrsv'' -"" °f
, ji u re, , the middling classes. In this view of the
seater: I:ll'f,rr. ti;i4louulit have his cordial upport.—(Hear.)
.t
icthetioutited he
t- •:
the Noi`4G, in explanation, said that from what
he feared that something had
utalf-a-erSPI.P' 1:411y l'tot in the Marquis,
course of his remarks which was per-
two 31embertio
list he tic es, ) sf (" No, no," from the Opposition
site
ire had said any thing which could have been
;nee t
e that Os isoes ten,{' 41,`u, must
or „id,
ert he • hive escaped him in the heat of de-
o ,ovt:i tsit
its,
to do 70. sorry for it, bat certainly he had not in-
pthroep
saelightest I,P;i liilrva;:ao,e
ha4(Hear, hear.) For the Noble Duke
used he hail the highest respect, and
that he ris4 osstiltii‘.4hY j:tice to him to state that there was nothing_
ere, M cut' Go 41ng 1" whichcould
.00 .0( 0. Vero endue . warrant the imputation of
iow e iLe 'nen% _ influence by means of any measure of
t tune n 5,0114 kind, He hid never meant to impute any thing
teeted , either to the Noble Duke or to Government,
s the Pl°, r
hie lic" pwith the
' „tal Jel 14)4. ALAIL measure before the House.—( Hear.)
'wn
reel (I''`i h4qw tlaidess_STON (who was again loudly called
the
1,7 the House. He rejoiced, he said, that
liner "isor it
tv,io}lo,re),
ity to his Noble Friend (the Marquis of
the sosof Ist (M„ had created an opportunity for the Hon.
;e inßed
rsfse
Lave II Baring) to explain what might other-
fl3 he' ' Y need an •
_o,t
.ie k, qer e uoei, . impression that something was
!ratty
_f ss.s ex,ee
to rnment in the framing of this plan out
shoes pre, tai; of „, the views or wishes of the house of Russell.
iveresl a° sc'e, or the tend
,at
10411 of could have been expected on the one
on the other ; and he was glad that
wrespsre,:e;dokui„lijoel 1,1,4 1:11 tittetaztA,llZotthtertoli:l,
‘t,lie opportunity of declaring that he
railoppera?fvfc 5i4."14), 11,14. Aien
.ey any such imputation. With what
m ier in the beginning of his speech,
e °f Of'oJ kei ''''he"neurreil.
pscane s teser He agreed with him in thinking
i,li • "1,0 iSt "tret. attention""Sect of importance might have occu-
rence ° siot,is ase,n
s„
the' le j any Rouse at former periods, there
song r i les fitted ',trisect of so much importance as that
gb(tiiserit'etissiedis; ttlittp,ett'fte4ti_to.
uirts, consideration. Many former
t thence,
~ !mice had been decided by their single
eYgreaotiilYoitotolilill
stet I.Pres„ot '‘etth ference to some past experience—
cut way orirOwasure could not be tried by any such
tll.l,Prrestiftli:re'it, It er „ w 0.7, , Inch did not affect only one particular
s svhD: ter the ugi affect the whole government and cha-
was to jle ~O let, rlot "untry, n
ry ,!ht tho afret,
fora
motmonn.lyltnow but in all future ages.
he
reie el 4101,1 t,,Ztlbe'4 the qt,„ to conceal the difficulty
b•e, .t el i- ll'"vrsti, 'Lion was surrounded :if lie did, lie
of the place be held, and the part he
iner roan for he must, indeed, be a bold or an
his arighterciieio ti,Zaleo4edite :"i(lito could approach. such a question
eration of all the difficulties with which
ites tot e:oo.oriftlas t(;ll,olPea_s'eci! who could propose to make such a
won AN eve _ onstitution s 1 • •
, 0 It roil._ ho v withal! its faults had been
Lstiot atr:e.o, ?In the r°`"Y..l.h..nefits to the country at large.-
1_,tri.:10001 14 I
es hold
or
Etupposit:on benches.) Herepeated, he must
;ly 01. very thoughtless man, who could' propose
Istait's the eon Pt
.‘ he hangsr. Without the
wed In ..etitol , togs, _ meet serious consideration of it.
j 00 6 )st 4aracte Fondness fur change was, he must
at t, ,erc ,it o ,t.en rof the people
of say,
England. They bad
,teat assveress !mark ihle ler, a tenacious attachment to
ety• • 'ttt, eon In'tituti
a Per d' daze trast to ?", affording, in' this respect, a
eta or _ theirdelighted
neat-door neighbours, who were
✓ 10,
ibed,
.elighted by the freshness and. new-
with
re t f t ttrejeieo I".atitetions.
Whilst in Old England
ob of
ti!lte antiquity of theirs. We well
tl2 Jool,e'ogi'ot; ? 0,1 ji:l4ge I.y of bringing the people to con-
, obt!,,, ts,ssss eont;tneir laws—haw strenuously many a
613:? jlc
,lapit," c; ),;celio;tle
reititiwT3 maintained before they could
sa., the or goif qi agerly 'Push certain statutes—how lo
y?
11, seossio eie struggle was carried on during
ri t° 09' t ' the 11 before 0'
tire ifee t the Ithe tram, , ley could be brought togive
on s'l'uritsl'g laws Pepe
can human beings, and, at a latergpe
to
00 Ott...kfko. 4to „...t.l!. It condemned a considerable portion.
rd as e per; palisid gok tbt:utitieal degradati
ethsaewpeinnaal
;la latio iv°o7l,o t,j,;_e44:11,w
tel
Catholincns.—"NeVhmeenanwt
eke
14
„i 4014
,Ilestre heretofore to conseut to change, a
rs I f 11' . ,or innovation,—a desire not confined to
:3" °bat 'la "Y liti'g°{"ues or b
.000 g oroo ow to it et„t bow-window orators,—bat ma-.
' .01 Y. to that station,inehNing those •of rank, and
!or
etitiimigee
ese sttitil(ol..!,'lluenCe in the country, dernaud-
.fu
al
i flog
ovo
esece
,eviesi
0.
ot
tuili irtiv:
at
c;
ot
gieteibann
isieiurnea
the
.ey:ckiiiflo3,loantyririteirawnygorte)ik,n); te.i;eiye:
_cg or n(e
aclt ti
Hear,s iponaheettaihre
that. if the pen-.
vos, itni4
34tie_rily.
.dernands tibebepgresuleent; and not
it to 'I:0 I°
atte°
and he added, that if the Govern-

ment, and the Mee, and the public did not pursue a fal-
lacy, we should not hare heard so much of the cry for in-
novation. Now he must sly, that if the Government,
and the press, end the public. were of opinion that this in,
novation was necessary, it might happen that it was not a
fallacy.—(Hear, bear.) He contended that the people of
this country sought fora change, because the state of the
country was such as to require it.—e(Hear, hear.) Among
the many instances which he could cite in proof of that
fact, he would for the present only mention one, that they
(the Ministers) were now seated on those benches which
had been so recently occupied by the Hon. Gentlemen
opposite.—(Hear, bear, from the Ministerial benches,
echoed by those of the Opposition.) Hon. Gentlemen
might say what they pleased, but it was not the difference
about the Civil List,—it was not the reduction of the sa-
lati• US of some hall' dozen offices,—which caused the over-
throw of the late Administration, The rock which they
split upon was their defiance of public opinien.—(Hear,
from the Opposition, followed by cheers from the Ministe-
rial side.)—They went on spreading wide the canvass of
patronage as they proceeded; but tied patronage, and the
use they made of it to accelerate their progress and in-
crease their power, proved to be their ruin.—(Hear.)
He would again repeat it, the besetting sin of the last Ad-
ministration was a disregard of public opinion—of public
opinion at home—of public opinion abroad.—(Cheers, and
loud cries of " Hear" from the Opposition.)—The error
of the course they pursued did not unfortunately end with
their power : it bad become the means of setting Europe
in Hanes.—(lleer, hear.)—He asserted that an obstinate
adherence to the notion, that a few men in authority
could succeed in bearing down public opinion, had proved
fatal to the late Administration, and he warned the House
that the example might serve as a guard against any such
error in future. He would contend that if it were not
for the prudence and discretion and activity of two men,
of his Noble Friend at the head of the Horne Department,
and of the great firinnes.s of the Noble Lord at the head of
the Government of Ireland, we might now be in a situa-
tion to be alarmed fur the connexion of the two countries.
--(Cheers from the Opposition.)—Those who recollected
what took place in November last, and who considered
the steps taken on that occasion, would heir out his as-
sertion ; and notwithstanding the cheers of Hon. Gentle-
men in opposition, from whom no very large support
or approval could be expected on such an occasion,
he would repeat, that to the circumstances he bad
alluded, the country was much indebted for the tran-
quillity that now reigned in that part of the country ;
but he must at the same time say, that all that the pre-
sent "Ministry had done would have been unavailing if
they had not been Supported by public opinion.—(Hear.)
What they had done, the late Ministry could never have
achieved, for public opinion was decidedly against them.
He said then, when public opinion was so strong in favour
of a change, it was the duty of Government to concede
that change, in such a manner as not to impair those advan-
tages we had so long enjoyed. In looking at the nature of
the proposed changes let the House consider some of the
evils which it was intended to remedy. What was it
which for years had prodUced so much misgovernment--so
much of disregard to public opinion ? The gross bribery
and corruption practised at elections, by means of which
parties came into Parliament, and undue influence at elec-
tions for Members of that House, by means cif which so
many of them came in either without constituents, or only
with those whom they had purcl.ased and might sell
again. When, then, by such practices the people were
driven to tear aside the veil of sanctity with which here-
ditary respect had invested even the imperfections of
the Constitution, it was impossible that they whose
limited propositions of Reform bad beets rejected, should
not be led to demand wider and more extensive changes.
(Hear, hear, he .r.) There were many men in that House
who wished things to remain as they were, and who
would be willing to bear the faults of the Constitution for
the sake of its many excellencies. Ile would tell those
people, that if now they were driven to the necessity of
choosine between a change which they feared, and the evil
consequences which would arise from the refusal of that
change, the blame must rest on those who three
years ago refused to snake even the smallest con-
cession to public feeling.—( Hear, hear.)—lf, three years
ago, advantage had been taken of the conviction of cor-
rupt boroughs to bring gradually into connexion with that
House the great unrepresented towns,—if, instead of draw-
ing nice equations between the manufacturing and the
agricultural interests, they had turned reformers on ever
so moderate a scale, the House would not now be dis-
cussing a plan of general Reform proposed by his NoVe
Friend as his Majesty's Paymaster of the Forces.—(Hear.)
—He had supported all those proposals for limited Re-
form, because he thought them good iq themselves; and
because lie clearly saw, that if they were refused, we
should be obliged to have recourse to wider and more ex.
tensive changes; but his predictions had been condemned
and disregarded by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite. For
reasons similar to those for which he then supported
those limited propositions of Reform, he was now pre
pared to support the more extensive measure which had
been proposed by his Noble Friend. Taunts had been
thrown in the course of that night's dibete against
those who, like himself, were the admirers of Mr. Can-
ning. They had been taunted for abandoning the
principles which that great man had adopted with re-
spect to the important question of Reform. He thought
that the events which had taken place in that House
since the lamented death of that illustrious person, might
have taught those who indulged in such taunts, that
public men might change their opinions on questions
of deep national concernment, without being influ-
enced by any bet honest and honourable motives.
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) He should have imagined
that those who cast such reproaches, would have learned
by this time, that public men were not justified in in-
dulging what he called the puerile vanity of consistency of
opinion, if by so doing they might endanger the great in-
terests of the country. What Mr. Canning's opinion on
the question of Reform would now have been, had lie lived
to the present day, it was not for him to say ; but they
were bad expounders of Mr. Canning's opinions, who
looked for -them in particular sentiments, expressed at
particular times, and did not scrutinize the principles
by which his public life was guided.—(Cries of hear,
hear.)—lf any man took a great and enlarged view
of human affairs, without doubt that eminent States-
man (lid; and be would venture to say that had Mr.
Canning lived in the present day, and stood in the same
circumstances in which he (Loud Palmerston) stood, his
great genius would have at once comprehended the neces-
sity on which the opinions of the Government were
founded, and would have stated to the House in his (Lord
Palunerston's) belief 'the same sentiments which he (Lou d
Palmerston) was now exriessing.—(Hear, hear.)—lf any
lion. Member wanted to learn the opinions of Mr. Can-
ning, let him refer to the speech delivered by that geetle-
man in February, 1826, on the freedom of the silk trade,
when he expressed himself in manlier very applicabie
to the present occasion—saying, " That those who re-
sisted improvement, because it was innovation, might
find themselves compelled to accept innovation, when it
had ceased to be improvement."—(Cheers.) It was no
longer in the power of the House to do, in 1831, what
would have been easy in 1828—namely, to take advata:
tage of the conviction of corrupt boroughs to transfer the
elective ftanchise, as occasions occurred, to the great ma-
nufacturing towns. A change of circumstances had made
it necessary for Government to prepare for the considera-
tion of Parliament a plan of general Reform. He was
aware that those who were wedded to the pa sent system
might denounce the proposition of Government to he a re-
volutionary measures, while those who sought to overthrow
existing establishments, and build on their ruin another
system, of which they aimed to be the rulers, would stig-
matize it as insufficient; but he was convinced that those
who admitted timely correction and improvement to be the
conservative principle of free institutions, would look upon
the proposition as well adapted to consolidate the fa'utic of
the Constitution, and give it due consistency and strength.
--(Cheers.) Any one who looked at the constitution of
the representation of this House, 'could not fail to be
struck by five prominent defects,—the nomination bo-
roughs,—the gross, general, and barefaced corruption
which prevailed, not only in small, but also in large
places,—the wan! of Members for some of the great-
est and most important manufacturing towns,—the
expenses of elections—and the unequal distribution among
different classes of society of that power which resulted from
the exercise of the elective frenchise. To all these defects
the plan of Government applied sound and whelesome re-
medies. It was impossible for any man to say that the
, existence of neminatien boroughs was consistent with the
theory of the Constitution, according to which Ilon Mein-
ben sat in that House as the representatives of the people
of England. He did not deny that some of those boroughs
had afforded an entrance into the House to persons of selen-
did talents and great capacity, who had strenuously advo-
cated the rights and liberties of the people. But still it
was impossible for any plan of Reform to be devised,
which did not hare for its foundation the total disfranchise.
went of the nomination boroughs. Besides, without con-
siderable disfranchisement, it was iruplaosnsibo
ve
e tf
o provide
for the other advantages which the p
proposed to accomplish. Every man would agree that the
number of the Members of Parliament, if not too large,was
large enough ; and unless some borough had been dis
franchised, it would have been impossible, without great
nconvenience, to give representatives to the manufacturing
towns' Some lion. Members had contended, that an un-

f tir selection hail been .made of the boroughs to be dig-
franchised—(Hear)—and the Hon. Member for Calling-
ton had insinuated that the plan of Government had
not been framed on general principles, but with a view to
save certain boroughs, and the borough of Tavistock among
the number. A most triumphant answer to such a charge
had been given by his Noble Friend (the Marquis of
.Marquis of Tavistock), who had stated that the popula-
tion.of Tavistock was 5,000, while that of Callington was
moniewh it between 1,000 and 2,000. Far the further
satisfaction of the lion. Member he could inform the House
that there were 25 other boroughs with a population be-
tween that of Tavistock, and the most populous of the 47
half-disfranchised boroughs, which would retain the privilege
of returning two representatives. It was not the object of
Government to sever the ties which existed between the
middle anti lower classes and the aristocracy; and. they did
not think that their proposition would have any such effect.
They did not wish to put an end to that influence which
arose front good conduct on the one hand, and respect
and of erttion on the tither, but to unreasonable sub-
mission to naked authority. The Hon. Member (Mr.
Bating) had stated in the early part aof his sre ch that
the proposition of Government would cif. ct a real as
well as a theoretical !taper *don of the two Ifousus of
Parliameot, acid that ahe influence of the Aristocracy
would he excluded front the House of Commons ; but
the Honourable Gentleturn in the latter part of his
epetteh proceeded to answer his own objection, and Batted
that not only the Duke of Bedford would retain Its
touch Psrliatnentary influence, but that even he (the Hon.
Member for Callington) would still have it in his power to
return the Member for Callington. He (Lord Palmerston)
maintained that the proposition of Government would not
destroy the wholesome influence of the Aristocracy,—that
influence which was obtained by eminent conduct, by
moral and intellectual diatinctiOn, and by exercising to-
wards their inferiors those qualities_wbich secured the af-
fections and gained the admiration of men.—(Cheers. )
The plan of Government would introduce to a share in the
Government of the country the great body of householders
—that is, the great bulk of the middle (daises of the king-
dom.—(Hear.) An Hon. and L arned Gentleman (Mr.
H. Twist) had been chosen to make himself merry at the
expense of the middle classes.—(No, na, and cries of
" hear.") He was pleased to sac, that shopkeepers, small
attornies, innkeepers, and publicans, were totally unfit to
enjoy any share in the representation.—(No, no.) He
could assure Hon. Members that he was not speaking
ft out memory; fur he had taken down the tion.and Learned
Gentleman's words.—(Hear, hear.) But he would ask
the Hon. and Learned MeMber, in what respect were
the potwallopers more fitted to chose representatives
than respectable shopkeepers and attornies?—(bear.)
An Hon. Member (Mr. Bluing) had asked why, if
it were cot:sidereal dangerous to trust the potwallopers
with the elective franchise beyond twenty veers, not dis-
franchise them now ? The answer he" gave that ques.
tion was, that theush the Government thought that that
description of voter, should be extinguished, yet they did
not see such danger in the present electors continuing to
exercise the elective franchise, as to induce them to take
that right away during the lives of those who now pus4ssed
it.—(Hear, hear.)—He believed that the proposition
would prove satisfactory to the country ; and notwith-
standina the taunts which had been thrown on the middle
classes, he believed that there did not exist in any country a li
body of men more entitled to respect and confidence titan the
middle classes of this country.—(Hear.)---He would ven-
ture to say that there never was a class of men more dis-
tinguished for morality and good conduct, for intelligence
and love of order, for true loyalty to their King, for affec-
tion to the Constitution, and, in case of need, for devo-
tion to their country —(Cheers.)—lle considered it
would be one great and main recommendation of the plan
of Government that it gave to the tttildle classes an inte-
rest in the Government of the country, front which they
had been so long excluded. The Noble Lord next alluded
to the great expellees attending elections, arising from
gross and disgusting bribery, and stated that this cause
of expense wee proposed to be removed by the intro-
duction of a respectable and honest body of voters.
He did not agree with an Hon. Member that it was
wore for electors to sell their votes than the proprietors
of boroughs to sell seats in Parliament, because corny-
tion on such a large scale had a tendency to destroy re-
spect for the institueons of the country, and demoralize
the whole population of the place where it prevailed.
An Hon. Member had statel that there was no neces-
sity to give representatives to the manufacturing towns,
because they possessed virtual representation ; bat he
(Lord Palmerston) asked, why should .nO, then,
small boroughs lie contented with similar representa-
: lion ?—(Hear, hear, hear.)—The manufacturing towns
required something more than virtual representa-
tion, considering how often Parliament was called upon
to legislate on matters. affecting the interests of the com-
mercial portion of the country. It was therefore desir-
able that they should possess representatives with whom
they could directly communicate, and in whom they
placed confidence.—(Hear.) To the manufacturing towns,
then, it was intended to give thirty-four Members, and
to preserve the just preponderance of the landed in-
terest it was proposed to add fifty .five to the county
Members. Beside', all persons who had votes in towns
would not be entitled to vote in the counties, so that the
representatives of the counties would be even more exc:e-
sively than at present the representatives of the agricul-
tural interest. We looked on the landed interest as the
surest foundation on which rested the fabric of the State,
and the institutions of the country. He meant no dispa-
ragement to the manufacturing and commercial classes.
He was perfectly aware that they were halipensable to
the happiness and prosperity of the country ; and that,
without them, land would lose its value. But the House
must not forget, that the soil of the country was the coun-
t!), itself. With reference to what had fallen from the
lion. Member for Calliugton (Mr. Baring), he would
add, that, under the present system, it was not talent that
procured a man a seat in that House, but length of purse
—the ability to pay agents and post-horses up to the
fourteenth day. This was a great and practical evil, and
this evil the Bill would prevent. The great and leading
principle of the Bill was, that it would alter the distribu-
tion of the different classes, and bring the middling classes
into communion with the others. The present system
did not give the middling classes an adequate share in the
representation. He was convinced that the majority of
the House would concur in the Bill, as a measure adapted
to promote the public good. • There might be men who
thought that the weight of public opinion might be cast
out of account on this question, miscalculating the work
ing of that opinion throughout the country. There might
be men who thought that a vote of that House might
change the opinion of the country, or that Government
might bid defiance to that opinion, and refuse to comply
with it. He trusted that the number of such persons,
and of those who acted as they did, would not prove to
be a majority of the House—(Hear)—as it might lead to
serious consequences. Theo were, however, persons who
thought that the Bill would satisfy the country, and
unite all classe < in its favour ; and he trusted that, in
the decision the House was about to come to, the truth
would prevail.

Mr: BARING rose to explain, but the confusion
created by the. previous rising of Sir Rohert Peel
vented a word of the explanation being heard.
S'r ROBERT PEEL said he should begin by ttoturing
his Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston) that one part of his
speech, which related to his own personal situation, was
wholly unnecessary to him ; for if his Noble Friend had
not thought it necessary to explain the grounds upon
which he was this night prepared to adopt a course so
d fferent from his own, even from his sileace he should
have drawn no unfavourable conclusion. He begged his
Noble Friend to believe that he did not join in the taunt
against bins. He (Sir R. Peel) had been placed in the
same situation ; he had found it necessary, from a due re-
gard to the principles which had always regulated his con •
duct, to adopt a difercut course from that which he had
formerly advo:ated; and he therefore ought to be the last
man to refuse the indulgence of which he had stood in
need to public men who were placed in a similar situation.
--(Hear.) He never would believe that public men did
not look to higher motives than a desire to retain their
places, when they were induced to change their opinions,__
and the character, the views, and the conduct of his Noble
Friend atr.rded a sufficient guarantee for the purity of his
motives. Having thus imitated the generous custom
which prevailed even in less dignified enconwers,—
as he might say, shaken hands with his Noble
ie
by relieving hunself from any susphion of per-
siFloarnvaingindistility in what he should say, the Noble Lord
would not be displeased, if, with perfect freedom of dis-
cussion, he subjected Ins.speech to some observation and
comment. At a time when the House licd been expecting
that some Member of his Majesty's Government would give
some explanation.of this measure,—at a moment when the
House wished to know, not what was the public opinion
of it, but what practical ground could be alleged for the
adoption of what might be called a new Constitution,—
the Noble Lord had instead thought proper to institute
a personal comparison
.hetween the tnerits of the I,st
and the preieut Adimmstration.—(Hear, hear.) That
part of his Noble Friend's speech had consisted of sarcastic
allusions to the conduct and opinions of the late Govern-
ment--and of attempts—and not very successful ones—
(Hear)—to magnify the present administration at the ex-
penseof the preceding.—(Cheers. )—" See," said the Noble
Lord, " What we have done. I verily believe," said the

Noble Lord, " that if there had not been a change in the
Government, this great measure would not have taken
place." He (Sir Robert Peel) would not pursue a similar
course. No party hostility should prevent him from doing
justice where he thought there was merit, and giving
praise where praise was due.—(Hear.)—He admired the
course of the present Home Department; he admired the
conduct of the Noble Marquis now at the head of the
Irish Government; ever since he had reassumed that
office, he had seen nothing in his conduct but what en-
titled him to praise and admiration; and he believed there
was so much truth in what had been said by his Noble
Friend, that had the late administration been in office,
they would not have been able to effect-what had been
effected there by the present administration.--(llear.)
But would they have had the same assistance ?—(Loud
cheers from the Opposition.)—Would they, if they had
introduced the measures which had been adopted by the
Noble Marquis, called upon to adopt them in a time of
great public excitement, have found all party feeling giving
way to considerations of public policy, and united all
in the general support of the Government, is order
to defeat the efforts of individuals to disturb the pros-
perity of the country? His Noble Friend,—he would
not enter deeply into the comparison, —but his Noble
Friend must recollect, that with respect to Ireland, that
very instrument, which had been wielded by the
Noble Marquis with characteristic vigour and success,
was an instrument which !ie.l been placed in his hands by
the late Administratiou—(Hear)—contrary to the opinion
and contrary to the votes, of many members of the present
Administration ; and that it the late Government had
been, in their attempts to maintain the peace of Ireland,
somewhat impeded by the violence of local and internal '
face, it was not the late Government that commenced
the reduction of the yeomanry—(Hear.) In his anxiety
to find cause for blaming the Administration which had
preceded the last, his Noble Friend had said, that if, in
1828, that Government had consented to transfer the
elective franchise from Exit Retford to Birmingham, the
House would not now have been discussing the necessity
for a general Reform ; for that that single measure would
have quieted the apprehensions of the people, and hare
satisfied them—(Hear.) But if from such small events
such mighty results would spring—if the transferring the
franchise from East Retford to Birmingham would have been
so satisfactory to all classes of the community—(Hear)—
that there would now have been no' necessity for Reform,
it was incumbent upon the House to inquire what was the
paramount consideration under these circumstances, which
rendered it imperative to change the Constitution of the
country.—(Hear.) His Noble 'Friend said, " Why, did
you not consent to the disfranchisement of East Retforal ?"
finless he (Sir Robert Peel) mistook not, his Noble
Friend and himself entered the House together on
that fatal night which lead to the dissolution
of the late Government, and his Noble Friend
and himself had intended to give their votes on
the same side upon that occasion ; but the effect of a
taunt upon his late Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Iluskisson)
had compelled him, in obedience to his feelings, to de-
viate from-the course he had intended to adopt, and which,
out of a sense of honour, led him to tender his resignation.
--(Hear, hear.) But, said his Noble Friend, ‘• If you
had tianaferred the elective franchise from East Retford to
Birmingham in 1828, there would not have been the least
necessity for Reform now."—(Cries of " No !" answered
by cheers from the Opposition.) Would his Noble Friend
have rested satisfied, then, in the present state of the re-
presentation, with the five grand defects in it which lie
had enumerated, and would he not have thought it his duty
to come forwerd and rescue both parties - the representa-
tives and the represented—front the effects of the corny-
, tion he had described ? His Noble Friend had lamented
that the voice of Mr. Canning could not be heard in that
House, and had assumed that that voice would have been
raised in favour of the plan of his Majesty's Government.
It might be so. God grant that he were here ! Gud grant
' that that voice might now be raised in that House, convinced
las he was that it would be raised to confound the fallacies
and sophistries by which the public mind was deceived.
If Mr. Canning had lived, and had changed his opi-
nions on this question, lie would have had the manliness
to avow the change. But no expression of Mr. Canning,
no passage in his brilliant speeches, carried the slightest
indication that such change bad taken place as his Noble
Friend had supposed. Where had his Noble Friend found
the proof that Mr. Cinning had changed his opinions on
the subject of Reform? Why, in a speech which he de-
' livered on the silk trade in 1827.—(Hear.)—In 1827, a
year after the alteration of the silk trade, Mr. Canning,
when sitting on the bench opposite, backed by the sup-
port of a lirge party in the House, upon the question as
to what was to be done with the franchise of Penryn, Ms.
Cinning, against the dictate's of his own judgment, sub-
mit-ed to be left in a minority of his friends around him,
on a question whether the franchise of Penryn should be
thrown into the hundreds or 'transferred to Manehewer,—
(Hear, hear. )—Thus, when his Noble Friend threw out
imputations against public men, a tenderness for the fame
of Mr. Canning had induced him to vindicate his memory.
He now nine to the tremendous question More the
House ; last before he approached the consideration of it,
he must confess that he was afflicted with great pain and
humiliation, beyond any thing he had ever experienced in
considering a question of this description. He was asked,
he would not say to make a revolution in the country, but
to substitute for the present system a different Constitution
—(Cheers)—and he was not invited to do this after a calm
and dispassionate inquiry, but to take this hasty step by
an appeal to motives, which, if he acted upon, he
should not be subjecting his fears to his judgment, hut
hi. judgment to his fears.—(llear, heir, hear.)—Before
he proceeded further, he would ask why the King's name
was introduced in this discussion ? Why had it been
stated in another place, that this plan had received the
particular sanction of the King? As to the reference that
had been made to the discussion on the Catholic question,
the cases had no similarity. On that occasion it had been
publicly stated that the measure had not the sanction of
the le*ng, and the Ministers had then no alternative but
to declare that the measure was brought forward by the
sanction of the King. But When a treasure like this was
brought forwardia bboythtbue
oAusdesinitotiforatitl
Parliament w as,
ta
Int de "ins a trhy;
pduay
tlaicfteprredsasy;to state that this measure, ivhich must have
received the approbation of his Majesty, was brought for-
ward with the express sanction of the King ? He (Sir
ifon h
eed disregardedmeas u
re t, h e a
nintimation
if,
as a
that the King ha
R. Peel) held it to be no imputation upon his respect and
loyalty to the Cl
Member of Parliament, lie exercised his Judgment on time
d
merits of the question as unreservedly as if no such inti.
illation had been given.—(Hear.)—But he regretted,Crown,cti
on
other grounds, that the name of the Kites should be thus
obtruded day after day.—(Hear, hear.)—He- could not
dismiss from his mind doubts as to the justice and ex-
pediency of this extremei measure of disfranchisement; but
granting • that they exist, still it was a harsh
measure towards the loyal bodies who were called
upon to sacrifice privileges which they had long
exercised ; and even if it was justly introduced, why
should the King- be held out as the special author of
the phut? He (Sir Robert Peel) had thought the
King had been the fountain of grace and favour; but it
shat if his plan of extreme disfranchisement was to
el by the House, and not to be dissented from,
seemed
be receiva
under the terror of its being introduced with the King's
ex press sanction, if not at the King's suggestion. Then
the House was menaced with dissolution.—(Cheers.)-,
Tile chances of dissolution vs ere as strong if the measure
were carried as if it had failed. He (Sir R. Peel) caned
riot if the House were dissolved or not ; nor shou'd he be
fit for the performence of a single legislative duty, it lie
permitted any such menace to influence him. Ile cared
not whether he was returned again or not ; but if he felt
any anxiety on this head, he would go to his constituents
with the Bill in his hand—(Hear)--and he would place
his special ground to their renewed confidence upon his
determined opposition to it.—(Cheers.)---He would go
to a community whose numbers,
.bay the return of 1821.
were not more than 4,000 inhabitants, and he would tell
therm that this Bill had been brought in without any '
allegation of necessity, or without any case being made
out against them, and that he had oppos d it. He knew
they had never abused their rights : that the humblest man
amongst them never received or asked a bribe for the vote
they gave.—(Hear.)—They had received him when lie
had been subjett to the indignity of expulsion for that he
conceived to be especial asst of duty, eves; to that church
of which, he yen n htmilile .Inomtier. They had
then returned him as their representative; and until
the necessity of the measure was established by
more cogent arguments than lie had yet heard, he
would not consent to deprive them of their tight. But
be was told that lie must adopt this measure, as the al-
ternative was civil commotion; he was to be seated from
the exercise of his deliberate judgment on a peculiarly
complsx and important question, by the apprehension of a
massacre, for such was the picture given by the Hon.
Member for Caine. But why should he (Sir It. ?eel)
not have the privilege exercising the smile judgment on
this Bill as the lion. Gentlemen on the other side bad
done when they voted against the Bill of the Noble Lord
last year? They did not think thet when they rejected
that Bill it implied an aversion to all measures of Reform.
upon the same
principle, those gentlemen rejected the vote
by ballot; and why was he not liberty to discuss this Bill ?
He would say to Ministers—" Don't shift from your own
shoulders the weight of responsibility which attaches to

the proposal of such a measitre—ilou't 's,y we will pro7e
our capacity to govern, hut baist..ratber of your ability
to destroy."—(Loud cheering.) He at least had not
been one who industriously excited the stormy wave of
the multitude,—who employed all his faculties to create
dissatisfaction and discontent.—(H.-ar, hear, hear.) He
at least had never uttered the language of a Noble Lord
in 1827, who found the people peaceful, quiet, and
contented, and complained that he could not rouse their
indignation against the constitution of the House of Com-
mons,—who grieved that they were so apathetic as to
prove " deaf to the voice of the charmer, charm he never
so wisely."—(Hear.) He at least had never called for a
list of the names of 113 privy councillors, in order to
direct against them the full torrent of popular displeasure
and resentment, on account of the remuneration afforded
to their services.—(Hear.) Neither had he ever instituted
any invidious comparisons between the great naval com-
manders and the civilians who presided over the Admi-
ralty. Neither had he instigated and encouraged any body
of men to display, under the very windows of the seat of
Government, a foreign emblem of revolution.—(Hear.)
He had never been the person to excite the people to a
pitch of phrenzy, to spur their lazy indifference to an emu-
lation in revolutionary clamour. If, therefore, this mea-
sure, which common prudence would have forborne intro-
ducing at such a crisis in our foreign and domestic rela-
tions, when fresh cause of excitement oltght to be cautiously
avoided,—if, he said, this extraordinary measure should
be defeated, he would never allow that the responsibility
of the disappointment could attach to him or to any other
individual Member of that House.—(Loud cheers.) Re-
ference had been made in the course of debate to a sup-
posed intentional diaparagement of the middle classes on
the part of an Hun. Gentleman near him ; but if one
word disrespectful to that body had escaped from any one
whomsoever, be would take leave to say that he did not
participate is the sentiment. On the contrary, he
should ever repudiate it from his heart, fur he de-
rived his strength from that order of society, lie was
one of themselves, and should always b 3 proud of his
connexion with them.—(Loud cheers.) Of the judg
went and sound understanding of the middle classes he en-
tertained a very high opinion, and wcl would it be if
they evinced more good sense and moderation than their
rulers..—(Cheers)—if not, then indeed did he despair of
the deatioies of the country. There were, however, daily
indications that his confidence in their clear-sighte ham on
political subjects generally would not be misplaced. It
was not long since the Noble Lord, in the office of
Chancellor of the Exchequer, had assumed that a large
body of the people had borne a tri-coloured flag to the
Palace of St. James's, but the assertion was met by such
their indignant refutation. Su far from intending to flaunt
an unnational symbol in the eyes of their Sovereign—so
far from preferring a foreign emblem to

The flag that braved a thousand years
" The battle and the breeze,"
they conceived themselves very much grieved by the mis-
representation, as if it carried with it an insinuation that
they conveyed treason under the garb of an ensign of
liberty. The truth turned out to be, that instead of thu+
exhibiting their supposed admiration of the three dap, of
Paris, this tri-coloured or rather qua fri-coloured flag con-
sisted of three or four remarkably beautiful specimens of
silk manufacture, carefully folded and sewed together at
the well-known estahlislament of Lea, Bowfield, and Co.
—(Loud cheers and laughter.) If in inquiring whether
they should adhere to the Constitution as now established,
they found that all its benefits only centered in borough-
mungere, then argument in its favour would be nugatory ;
but he submitted it would not be difficult to make-
a calm temperate appeal to the better judgment of the
people on behalf of the old English Constitution, of which be
was sure no such assertion could be predicated. It had
been said by the late illustrious Mr. Canning, that the
modelling of a Constitution was a matter of extreme deli-
cacy in proportbn to the complitmted character of so deli-
cate a michine. Who could pretend to judge of the sym-
metry and proportions of the liormin fratou, of its orgins,
and faculties, and endowments, which fell so little short
of angelic existence itself, by merely examining an isolated
member, or detached feature of the fabric when perfect as
created. Let lion. Gentlemen remember that all moral
theorists and philosophical writers for a thousand years
had despaired of realizing in practice a system of such ex-
cellence as the British Constitution. Must not Cicero
himself have contemplated our form of government when
he said " Existirno earn ease optimatu republicam quite
conic ituta est ex tribus generibus ?" Had not Tacitus de-
scribed the best and most durable government to be a com-
bination of King, Nobles, and the people, particularizing
with accuracy the several parts of our Constitution as it
now operated ? He had heard frequent allusions to Burke
and Canning, and other great authorities, whose opinions
had been adduced in the course of this debate, but he
would quote a passage from a speech of the Noble Member
for Tavistoek (Lord J. Russell), in the session of 1819,
which he considered touch more to the purpose, and was,
besides being apposite to the question, one of the most
beautiful specimens of eloquence ever uttered in that
House.by tle v e r
iyt
NhieubllethLeoardidiwtiohnoal
nmoweritsouogfhtbetionglasypovkieon.
lent hands on the Constitution. The discussion alluded
to related to the disfranchisement of a corrupt borough
in Cornwall, whets the Noble Lord was asked what he
proposed to do with the unconvicted boroughs ; to which
he replied as follows but in making this quototion, he
must premise that lie never meant to blame the Noble
Lord for changing his opinion since then, if he saw suffi-
cient grounds for the change ; but the reasons whieh he
then assigned appeared eternal and irrefragable, and not
of a nature to be less cogent now than when originally
uttered. He on that occasion replied that he would con-
sider a general disfranchisement of the unconvicted bo-
roughs, a re-construction of the House of Commons alto-
gether.—(Hear.)—He had therefore the Noble Lard', ?wit
authority for so designating the present plan of Reform.—
( Hear.)—The Noble Lord, however, went on to eulogize
the Constitution in the most eloquent terms of praise
which it was possible to employ. He observed that " Old
Sarum had existed when 'Montesquieu pronounced the
Constitution of England the nearest to l:erfection of any
which the most enlightened States had ever before expe-
rienced. When Lord Smarts, and the other great legis-
lators and philosophers who flourished with him, "bore at-
testation to its merits, it was open t the same objections
which were since urged against it; and when Hampden
lost his life Rutland return-d the same number of repre-
sentatives as Yorkshire.--(Cheers.)—He was not in-
clined, with the pseudo-merchant in the fable, to cry
New lamps for old'—(Laugher)— end would not
c ,nsent to exchange the instrument which had created
so much national prosp4ity for a burnished and tin-
selled article of modern manufacture.—(Laughter.)—
Neithe r would he willingly throw our political.sys•ern into
the wheel on the chance of obtaining a prize in the lot-
tery of Constitntions."—(Cheerg and laughter.)—Such
was the Noble Lord's judicious, and at the present moment
timely warning against the danger of rashly departing
from the practical wisdom of mankind, during centuries
of historical exper:ence, proffered, too, at the critical jugs.,
tore of 1819, when the Six Acts had the
Seizure of Arms Bill, the Blasphemous Liao /Jill,/Jill, and the
Newspaper S'ainp Bill, was in actuysl progress through the
House.—(Cheers.)—if sects was the line of argument of
the Noble Lord in 1819, lie ie his laugnage would then
call upon the Uonse to prefer the solid ancient lamp of the
Constitution, to the temporary tinsel of modern sophistry.
Hear.)—Wilt respect to the great question before the
House, he could not but declare that he saw in it but the
instrument of men endeavouring to retain potvei., Hear,
and " No.")—He begged pardon if in tf.tor, but they all
knew how prone people were to receive disclaimers of
anxiety to possess power with suspicion. And this allu-
sion to etee led him to another topic not discono,ected
t7ith his subject. It had been industriously circulated,
that with a view to out-bid, or, ;viler. under-bid the
Noble Lord in his weaenre fur Relent}, awl with a view
to effecting a restoration to office, some 'Member of this-
aide of the House would have come forward wail,, same
plan of moderate Reform of our ow/1,--raison)—He
The
aficapneeet:rnt,nta:ne
ttyrie, really yft t
Ntr,oaewstis:noge mcoltel:tstlot af
nless.it.tsrpdaapsesrell.vtirlz.r,
seem to think tlia the suntnium &mum of human
the role yibiect of all our exertions, awl pubition, is the
and health on the
Wtcolu7 ltipttcit "ppoi.e. Vor Isis part lie was actuated
by nn unlit idle ambition,—(Hear, hear.)—lle
if such were his object, have proposed a into of mo-
derate Reform, but as he had not thew so, he per-
suaded himself that he afforded a proof that Ise had
no ambition of istce thwough such a channel.—(llear.)
And this ha might have done with tie less hesitatiotls as
he hail never taken a decided violent pat against the
Reform measures which had been, disc ;red, of late years
in that House, so that ha was not barred on the score of
consistency, it tie inestimable blessing of sitting en the
bench opposite to be night after night bab:ered, Were the
object of his ambition.—(Hear, and laughter.)—After,
indeed, he had lost thy, eaamenee of the these, and
thence office, if Ministers had felt it necesgary to propose
a asfe and moderate Rehtrm of some branehes of our repre-
sentation, he would most probably have acted on the views
taken by the lion. Member for Caine, of the overwhelm-
ing danger to be apprehended front all resistance to change
and hove given it his support as a private individual,
though lie might not have thought it tit to originate it in
an official capacity, lie repeated he would not have ob-
jected to a measure for extending the elective franchise to

nu He
upon Lis honour as a gentle.
some places not at present possessing it. The Might
spokec°Ul'itheanssuwrheolilyimuwnii:
maiill:ntnr,tulit'tthlniaatannldeP.ln:Eicet:ti•ihstmYnad'ilaelnd.....d.conference with any individu .1
oe the sohject.—(Hear.
fluenced.by personal or party considerations, in his indi.
..vidual capacity,—as a man who had a far deeper stake in
maintaining the integrity of existing institutions than he
could derive from the possession of any office.—(Hear.)
Feeling thus deeply. interested in the wellbeing of this
Constitution, he could net consent to a measure which, in
the words of the Noble Lord, went to re-construct the very
forms of that House; and, be the consequences what th• y
may, so wholly did he despair of being able to modi'y the
Noble Lord's Bill into a kind of moderate measure less
objectionable, that he would oppose the plan of the Noble
Lord altogether.—( Hear, hear.)—And why would he act
thus? Because, having attentively listened to the Noble
mover's statement, and to all that had been subsequently
said for and against it, he felt convinced that if the Noble.
Lord's argument was good for any :thing, the mteletee
which he then proposed could not be a
.final one, but a
mere precedent to still more dangerous innovations. The
Noble Lend had told them that he found the ancient Con-
stitution of this country in 25 Edward L and in the
statute de tallagio non concedendo-7but what did these
Statutes express ? simply that " taxes should not be levied
without the consent of the commonalty of the realm.''
And then, argued the Noble Lord, if Reform be a pies-
lion of right, which he held it to be, here was the right
anciently established. If this, then, be the right priori.
i le of the case, let him ask the Noble Lord how far he had
e usulted it when he proposed to disfranchise so many
thousands of those upon whom taxes are levied ?—(Hear. )
—Did lie assume that the law admitted of such a dis-
tinction? It did not ; yet the Noble Lord at once would
disfranceise all tax-payers rated under 101—( Hear.)—
How could he justify his distinction, particularly on his
own premises? This objection, which had been ably.
urged by the [lon. Member for Callington, appeared to
him quite fend to the Noble Lord's measure. There was
another objection also urged by the Hon. Menf.er for
Callington, which appeared to him of great weight. It.
was the inevitable tendency of the Bill to sever every.
link of connexion b tween the poorer classes and that
class from which their representatives were usually
chi sen. Now this severing of the ties which con-
nvted the . highest and I,e lowest classes was op-
posed to the practical workings of the pre•eat system
of representation—a great characteristic recommends.
tory feature of which vm as, that it enabled every
class in the community to, in some way or other, have a
voce in the e'ection of the Members of that House. Now
he did not mean by this to say that the fi anchise should be
extended to all the members of all the classes of the CO.lll
munity, but that the Consvitution worked well from having
here sail theme an entrance channel fur the broadest prin-
ciple of popular sepresentatisn. If to snake-himself better
understood it Was proposed to him to snake a selection-
between the franchise in force in Windsor and that in
force in Preston, he would not hesitate to p: der the former,
but be would not theteFote abolish the Preston franchise,
and assimilete it to that in Windsor : all that he would do
was, to take care nut to terl‘e it as the model for his plan of
extending the franchise to ether places, but not so the
Noble Lord's Bill. It would disfranchise all those open
boroughs the votes of which were not rated at 101.,
though no reason had been, or could be, adduced for de-
priving the freemen of Coventry, or the pot-wallopers of
Freston, of their franchise. Would not, he put it to the
Noble Lord and the House, the effect of this disqualifying
principle be the-affixing a political stigma upon those not
eligible to vote under the 10/. qualification ? He could
not consent to the measure were it only on this ground,—
for lie could not consent to a stigma upon from 200 to 300
of his constituents which the Bill would elisfranehise ; tee
be left, forsooth, to a Privy Council arrangement, by which
Noble
yetentnaanwandoiisipit,i,nkge
ohli.n—liyg(sehiteiellEws)iit'hlylieLl:Btei'lei)l.a:::willieli(siput an end for eve r to the
miptliasinertna'strous principle of non-resident freemen, and all the ex.
pense and vexation of bringing men some 200 or 300 miles
to vote for a Member in a place in which they had no local
or personal interest. But he aske,l his Noble Friend
how his nun-resident constituents of the University of
Cambridge would receive this proposition? Had the lion.
Baronet who represented the University of Oxford con-
templated such an arrangement ? [lt was here intimate 41
to the Right Ilan. Baronet that the Bill would not 'apply
to the Universities.] No I What is this their general rule
that had no exception ?—(Loud cries of " Hear.") The
reason—the peculiar beauty of which was, that it applied
unflinchingly and without exception to all classes and
places.—(Hear.) What does it do?—why, snake an ex-
minion of a body—the clergy—the very men who least
need being made an exception ; while it deprives the less.
pretected poor man of the privilege of voting where lie
does not possess a Lou,. rated at 10/.—(Hear.) The
Right Hon. Baronet dwelt on this point at some length.
Ile would next apply himself to the argument. which hod
been adduced against the close borough system. Now it
was usually, and as it appeared to him most convineingly
argued, that those boroughs were advantageous by their
, affording the means of access to that House of own who
had no elaitne beyond their ability. Two objections bail
been, in the course of the debate, urged against that etas,-
ment ; the one, which he must say came with a very bad
grace ftoin
.the Hon. Member for Westminster (Mr. Hob-
house), himself a man of very great ability—(Hear, hear)
—was that it was by no means desirable that mess of
splendid talents should ha members of that House—that in
a Refortnel Parliament solid sense and integrity would
be more highly valued. Now he, on the other hand,
maintaine I that nothing tended more to fester the ptiblie
respect fur that House than its being the great arena of
t dent and eloquence, and that nothing would lower it more
in public estimation thin that it should be Leon the ave-
rage ability of educated retitle:nen, an,l that tali or and
ability would have a welcome' reception within its writhe
But, says the Hon. Member for Calne,—•r Yes, let us
have men of ability by all means," but let us seltet other
means fur their obtaining seats than close boroughs.
Give us a purer an I mote extensive franchise, and they
will get in at least as much as they can at present. But
what, said he, is your test of ability? Take every 100
men you roe. t in the street, and one of them will be a
titan of ability—take 100 nausea in the Red Book, and one
may lie a man of ability—and so of 100 men of tawny
complexion ; but are these m n to get in by the accident
of a close borough? And then the Hon. Member asked
them, was it fair to judge by the accident instead of the
general tendency of a system ? Now he (Sir 11. Peel)
was content to judge by the tendency and not the accident
of the close borough system, and would maintain that that
tendency was osentiaily favourable to the entrance of men
of ability into that House. He had that morning turned
over the names of from 20 to 25 of the most distinguished
men that hall graced that House for the last 30 or vs
years—men of whom it might be said with the glowing
leuguaee at Lent Plunkett—were possessed of that
" leen:alley of genius which would float them down the
stream of posterity ;" and he found that, with three ex-
ception., they were returned for boroughs, which the
Noble Lord's Bill would wholly disfranchise. There was
Mr. Gunning, Lflrd North, J. Townsend, Mr. Burke, Mr.
Flood, Mr. Pitt, Mr. Fox, Lord Grenville, the Mar-
quis Wellesley, Mr. Pereeval, Lord Plunkett, Mr. Can_
ping, Mr. Wyeldbant, Mr. Horne, :Mr. Hitskissen, Mr,
Broughato, Sir Samuel Romilly, Lord Castlereagh, Mr.
Tieeney, Sir W. Grant, Lord Grey, and the late Lord
Liverpool, all first returaaed for close haronehs—( Hear)
—and but three cot their. ever merrihera for counties.
Nor was t 6 mere facility of admission the tmy
}w-
refit. i's-he introduction, hy effordieg them its, oppor-
4«nity,—the essential ccindltaon of successful tailent,—fite
displaying their legiAttive ability on a large scale, recto-o-
men-lel them to a %nitre extensive franchise at a more iene-
Cure age; alei again, when they, isee caprice or went re'
morwy, or otherwise were depe7ived of their Ise gee seats,
'simile close boroughs, whiell the Noble Load's led! wee lo
iiestroy altogether, vetAved them, and nag red their inva-
luable labotvee to their country.—(Haar.) Snell was the.
c tee te;loil Mr. Shei hien was defeated at i`..-I!afford-.....1te fouset
elteiter in Ilchester. Mr. Wyndham having failed at Nor-
wich, took refuge at 1-11ghato Ferrero; and Lord Ca, le,
reagh, in like mealier, having lost his cleetioo in the county
of Down, was returned for Oxford. Mr. Time,
wheel he lost Southwark, was retuned for KT-1311,1,, obigh ;
t and Lord Grey for Tavissoek-, when defeated in Northam- • bedand. Alltli;,!.roved that the tentletoey and not the,
mist re accitleot of the close borough system was to facilitate
othLienn.'-fz:teinofthnaltechoufsa.b._ili:yealir.o) f3At
wasnd A"iS
0(11:1;113sta::
thus working so adva4tageous;v for the genteel well,--so
fostering of talent and statesmanlike ehility,—to be destroyed
in obedience to the Noble Lord's plan? During ISO yeses
te,,e constitution in its present form was in force, and he
would ask any man Ow heard him ta declare whether the
experience` of history bad produced any form of goveronetort
so calvoLttetl to promote the happiness and secure the rights
a:ed liberties of a free and enlightened people ?—(Cheers.l
Many other experiments had been tried to ingsnft demo- •
cratieal upon monarchical institutions, het how 1,41 they
socceeded ? In France, in Sp in Poi tugal, in the
Netherlands, in every country on the face of Ow earth,
with the exception of the Milted States,
us.tejT,,
t.
riment fbrming a popular represic,:i:Evt'vile,Gi;
and of uniting it with a iii.oriarehy,
had
cthirrriteosted'h?enenliei iAalmeeffsejecatstirliPt
Hlieouwsoeu allaglateire'ngtx9kid