The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-20 00:00:00

mestic nature ; and he was, therefore, entitled to-say that what
his Noble Friend considered as an evidence of indifference was
in fact a proof that the country had been satisfied with the
management of foreign affairs, and that it felt confidence in
those who administered them.—( Hear.) He now came to the
immediate subject of his Noble Friend's argument. His Noble
Friend had, in a speech of great ability, and which dis-
played great research, traced out the progressive augmentation
of the territory of the Russian empire, and had founded upon
that statement the arguments which he had thought sufficient
to authorise the production of the papers be moved for. But
the fact was, that the peculiar characteristic of all the acts by
Which the successive augmentations of that empire bad been
achieved was, that they had always been committed when the
other nations of Europe were occupied in quarrelling amongst
themselves, and when their attention was therefore so much
engrossed with their own immediate affairs as to have pre-
vented their opposing the Russian Government in the execu-
tion of its plans. Now, if that were the case, he could not see
why his Noble Friend did not approve of a course of policy
which tended to preservepeace in Europe,and therefore to leave
each nation at liberty to watch the motions and probable inten-
tions, of those whom it suspected of designs of aggrandisement.
The Hon. Member for Birmingham had called for war under
any circumstances—war with paper or war with gold. But
Be (Lord Palmerston) conceived that an additional motive
was here afforded for endeavouring to avoid perils which had
already led to evil consequences and difficulties.—(Hear.)
While, however, he thus differed from his Noble Friend, he
Must at the same time say, that he entirely agreed with him
as M the importance to this country of maintaining Turkey
In integrity and importance.-2-( Hear, hear, hear.) He had
an former occasions (those on which it was customary for the
Gov
eminent to communicate with the two Houses of Par-
lantent), endeavouredito satisfy the House that the opinion
e now expressed was the opinion which had been constantly
entertained by the Government ; and he could assure his Noble
Friend that it was impossible Tor him to feel more strongly the
Importance of the preservation of the independence of Turkey
that
was the
(the Government) did. He believed also that this
"as the sentiment sincerely entertained by every other country
of Europe whose interest coincided in this respect with that
of England. Such being the fact as regarded the main point
of the Noble Lord's argument, he ( Lord Palmerston), feeling
the delicacy and difficulty which attended a Minister of the
rawn, in entering into questions relating to the foreign policy
?,f the country, where no particular matter had been brought
forward on which such questions could arise, thought that
the House would feel that he would be best performing his
duty on the occasion by following the Noble Lord as lightly
as Possible into the many topics which be had introduced.
There was one, however, as to which he thought it necessary
to set right his Noble Friend and the House if they agreed
with him in the position which he had taken up. His Noble
Friend`` had appeared to think and to suppose that the com-
rnereial league into which Prussia had entered, together with
tlther States on the Continent, had been the result of Russian
'Whence, and had been commenced and continued in order to
compass the attainment of Russian designs. He begged to
BIY that he thought his Noble Friend mistaken in this suppo-
sitian• That league had for its object Prussian interests, and
Prussian interests alone. There could be no doubt that the
league in question had been planned and devised by Prussia,
and that it was necessary, in order to its completeness, to have
the co-operation of certain small German States. But was it
to be supposed that unless those German States had felt that
they too had an interest in the formation of the league they
Would have acceded to the proposition ? It had been long
thought in Germany that it would be desirable to get rid of
the impediments to commerce caused by the interposition and
intervention of the internal Custom-houses, and, by so doing,
to give to the commerce of the various States a more ample
and free development, and the league was consequently entered
Hto was, therefore, a league entirely German in its objects.
4 Noble Friend might be assured, then, that the league in
question, whether its results would be for good or for evil—
aiel for his (Lord Palmerston's) part he did not think that
Plunch of either was likely to result from it—had certainly not
een the result of Russian influence, but had been entirely and
beginning to end a German transaction.—( Hear, hear.)
ge now came to the question of the papers for which the
Noble Lord had moved, for the Noble Lord had, with
n,
-'llah judgment and good taste, avoided suggesting any
Measures for the adoption of the Government, feeling, as
he no doubt bad done, that whatever sentiments of - regret
"r on on sYmpathy the House or himself might have enterta4o,
h~Se subject connected with the topics referred to in
speech, still no case had arisen upon which to suggest
any course of action to the Government. With respect
ro°lle of the papers, he (Lord Palmerston) could feel
obection whatever to its production ; but as regarded the
three,others, he certainly must oppose the motion of his Noble
riall& The treaty, commonly balled the treaty of Unkiar
Skelessi,.. was officially in the possession of his Majesty's Go-
iernrnent, and therefore to the production of that document
.I'o (Lord Palmerston) could not offer any opposition ; but the
treaty of Achmet Pacha was not officially in the possession of
the Government, and to the production of that, therefore, he
ust object. With regard to the correspondence between the
Cavernment of this country and those of Russia and Turkey
~
-n the subject of those treaties, he must entreat the House not
to
call for them. He was prepared to say that they could not
be Produced without inconvenience to the public service. They
could
accomplish no object for the Noble Lord, and he there-
fore felt that when he assured the House that they could not be
Produced without prejudice to the public service, prevented as
,sa,e wa b the very nature of the case from entering into ex-
Palliation's of the reasons which induced him to come to that
conelusiqn—explanations which would be as prejudicial as he
Conceived would be the production of the papers—he was en-
titled to hope that the House would not press for the papers,
but be satisfied with his assurance.—( Hear.) Then, as to the
Other papers for which his Noble Friend had moved—the cor-
resp.ondence between the Government of this country and that
Russia with respect to Poland—these papers were moved for
?n a former occasion, when the object in moving for them was
then urge on the Government to protest against the change
Te Zade in the Constitution of the kingdom of Poland.
and onstitution granted by Alexander had been abolished,
Perora system of Government established by the present Em-
' at th °f Russia substituted ; and he (Lord Palmerson) stated
With e time that the Bristish Government had remonstrated
• of the tha of Russia, on that which was considered a violation
e_ Treaty of Vienna. So far, therefore, as this public
v..‘srpirieshssion of what had been the opinions and course of the
Government on that occasion could avail the Noble
.Lord' he would have the advantage of it; but he (Lord Pal-
Zerstou) thought the House would see that no advantage
el old be gained by the publication, after three years had
an this
of the correspondence between the two Governments
.„4 Pais subject, when nothing had arisen to make such publi-
_tan necessary or desirable. If it was desired to go to war
a country then a publication of all documents which could
4'Tssibly throw a light on the question in dispute was both de-
able and and necessary, in order to show the quarrel to be a just
;al but if it was desired to keep at peace with that coontry,
orn it was certainly not desirable to give up to the perusal
o
off the wrld correspondence wch must nessaril have the
ter of irritating both sides without leading ce
to any desirable
necessary object.--( Hear.) On these grounds,y therefore,
toWas that he (Lord Palmerston) called upon the House not
of agree to the motion of his Ncble Friend for the production
an the papers in question. But there was also another point
Thewhich he felt it necessary to answer the Noble Lord.
sk, Noble Lord seemed to think that the Treaty of Unkiar
th elessi had led to indignities being offered to this country in
Person of its Ambassador ; but he was certainly entirely
mistiaken if he supposed that such indignities had been offered,
ambassador
it was the intention of the Government to cause the
11aassador to submit to any measures inconsistent with the
(Cur and dignity of the country. In the first place he
t 211 Palmerston) must remind his Noble Friend that the
airtY, as far as it regarded the passage of the Dardanelles,
tz7 a dead letter at present, for it could have no operation
'ept in case of a war.
Lord
rd D. STUART—There was a war in Circassia.
°rd PALMERSTON—That was not the sort of war
Contemplated by that treaty.
Wt. which
D. STUART—It contemplated an application to any
which affected the peace of the country.
. radord PALMERS'I'ON continued—Then what was the
bUund on which the question of the passage of the Darda-•
Wes stood as regarded its relation to this country? Why,
4dallcient treaties between this country and Turkey our ships
tv the right to enter all Turkish seas and all Turkish ports.
11th article of the treaty of 1809 the Porte declared
T •
atne. urkey was at peace with all nations. It had been the
county' lent Practice of Porte not toillow the ships of war of other
uehes to pass between the Black Sea and the Mediterra-
thi4,,"' and England on her part declared he acquiescence in
ri- arran
h gement Therefore the British Government had no
p!r.`t to send ships.
of war to the Black Sea, except with the
hit mission of the Porte, which permission bed always been
ease to given as soon as asked for. Now, what was the
-s fa
a as regarded Lord Durham ? His Lordship went
Cainer, as Constantinople, but the Noble Lord main-
litaX that his not going through the Dardanelles into the
but Sea was an indignity. Yet the Blonde frigate had
ha d a short time before been in the Black Sea, where she
thnernade a salvage. It so happened, however, that about the
e
which Lord Durham sailed from this country, Mr. Ellis
petasia. ted from Engiand on a special mission to the Court of
hell He went in the King's steamer through the Darda-
-41 es to Trebizond, and the vessel returned to take Lord
caut,haln• It was not incommoded with guns certainly, be-
lt OA it was carrying the British Ambassador and his baggage ;
res;" (1/1 board a guard of marines, and wa's in every other
ntista a ship of England ; but the Noble Lord was certainly
di,,nit `au if he supposed that there had been any want of due
.ff ,eey
in the progress of Lord Durham. Well, there was
irn the circumstance which happened at Odessa. The Noble
huasined that some affroilt had been offered to Lord
true
tis,Tri in his not receiving ,tint n
salute. It was
nu, Hat there had been a mistake made by a Russian Captain,
eii:n that consequently some hours intervened before the ex-
ge of salutes took place : but that it was a mistake of this
vidual only, and not an intended insult to Lord Durham,
reise.proved
Ode the circumstance of his Lordship having been
tinc_ied at ssa by the authorities with every mark of dis-
:tn't!nti and respect due to the representative of the King of
th;sland. It was evident the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi had no-
pri!".g to do with the circumstances which attended the pro-
of
offer Lord Durham, and that there had been no intention
any ydisrespect either to the flag or to the Ambassa-
till. of England. He ( Lord Palmerston) would not follow
eclsloble Lord into the other topics which be had intro-
duced into the debate—into the question of colonization in
nut the question of the affairs of Greece. He would
n„.._°e led by the Noble Lord into a defence of the course
wued by this country with respect to Greece—a course
Sa,"ll he (Lord Palmerston) must, however, be allowed to
t),e 110 believed to be at once honourable and advantageous
interests of the nation. Nor would he be led into a
laation of the Greeks from the charge which the Noble
I'd had made against them—of being a nation of robbers

on land, and of pirates at sea ; although he wished that the
Noble Lord could have availed himself of the opportunity
which a tour in the East afforded, of spending a sufficient
time in Greece to have produced a change in this opinion
of the Noble Lord. But he would assure his Noble Friend
and the House, that the Government felt that the subject was
one of quite as much importance as had been assumed by the
Noble Lord, and that the Government were moreover pre-
pared so to act with respect to it, as to maintain the interest
and at the same time the honour of the country. Ile also
assured the Noble Lord that if they found it necessary, in or-
der to the due maintenance of the interests of the country, to
call upon the House to furnish the means of vindicating the
national interests and the national honour by a war they would
certainly do 50..--( Hear, hear)—and that they would never
make such a call without such a good and sufficient ground as
would ensure them the confidence and concurrence of Parlia
ment.—( Hear.) On the other hand, it was not the wish of
the Government to disturb the transactions of peace by spread-
ing abroad menaces of wit- ; and as they did not at present
see any reasonable ground why the peace of this country and
of Europe should be disturbed, they felt it to be their duty,
while they agreed to a part of the present motion, strenuously
to oppose the remainder. He entreated the House to leave
the Government to manage the affairs which had been en
trusted to their hands, resting satisfied that they would not
plunge the country unnecessarily into war, that they were de-
termined to preserve peace as long as they could, and that
they did not at present see any reason to doubt its long con-
tinuance.

Dr. BO WRING thought that the power of Russia had been.
very much overrated. On paper her armies were doubtless
immense, but she had never, even at the time when she strug-
gled for existence, been able to bring more than 300,000 men
into the field. The Nobles, too, were beginning to evince a
desire for improvement. He felt for the situation of Poland,
but would be sorry if the question of Polish independence
were to be decided by whether the stipulations of a treaty, in
which certain Monarchs bound themselves to maintain a par-
ticular Constitution in Poland, had been complied with. He
thought those rights rested on a much broader basis, and that
she must look to the future for the restoration to liberty, when
those more extended rights were generally admitted.
Mr. ROBINSON was very much inclined to agree with the
Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs that very little
good was to be gained from re-opening this question between
Russia and Poland. He thought that a protest having been
entered by the British Government against the proceedings of
Russia with respect to• Poland, the former had placed itself in
such a situation as would enable it, whenever the occasion
should arise, to avail itself of that protest in following it up.
He (Mr. Robinson) would not enter into the general question,
whether the league called the Prussian league was the result of
Prussian influence exerted to favour Prussian interests, or whe-
ther it was the result of German interference. For his own part
he was inclined to think that the Noble Lord was right in as-
suming that it was a German league ; but he thought that the
Noble Lord was disposed to treat the objects of the league
with too much lenity. The complaint made against the league
was, not that Prussia was pursuing a system advantageous to
herself, but that she had induced all the small German
States to come into an arrangement which enabled her to im-
pose high duties on all goods of British manufacture. There
could be no doubt, he believed, that Prussia had resorted to
undue means in order to procure the assent of the small Ger-
man States to the terms of the league—that was proved by the
fact that in all those States which had Legislative Chambers
protests had been entered against the proceedings of Prussia.
The Hon. Member for Birmingham had said that the inha-
bitants of Birmingham, and other towns of that description
were anxious for a war. No doubt his Hon. Friend was an
enthusiast on the subject, but it was equally certain that his
feelings were not in unison with those of any other Member of
that House.

Mr. P. THOMSON said that he had not intended to take
any part in this debate, nor should be have done so had he not
felt it necessary to correct a mistake under which the Hon.
Gentleman who had just sat down, and many other persons,
seemed to labour with regard to the Prussian league. How
that subject had found its way into this debate he was wholly
at a loss to conceive, unless it had arisen from the statements
contained in an absurd publication called the Portfolio. No
one at all acquainted with the bearings of the question could,
he thought, for a moment entertain the idea that it was the in-
terest of Russia, even if Russia had the power, to promote a
confederation of this description ; for if its nature were political,
and he was disposed to believe that it was, would it not erect
a power in Germany greater than any Russia could hope to
possess ? There was also another mistake fallen into by the
Hon. Gentleman which he likewise wished to correct. The
Hon. Gentleman said-, in the first place, that a disadvantage
would arise to this country from the Prussian league, and in
the next, that Prussia would have the power of raising the du- '
ties on British commodities to any amount the Government of
Prussiiipleased. The contrary of this was, in point of fact, the
case, because the league would give to Prussia no greater
power in this respect than Prussia possessed befote., The
effect of the league would be this—before it existed Prussia,
being wholly unfettsred, had the power of regulating the
duties levied on the commodities of this country in
any way the Prussian Government pleased, by either
raising or diminishing them—(Hear, hear)—but now that
Prussia had united with the other powers of the different Ger-
man States, no change could be made in the scale of duties
agreed to by the Confederation, without the consent of all
'parties to the league. The power of Prussia, therefore, was
limited instead of being increased, and that disadvantage he
was inclined to consider as the necessary result of the league
itself. The day had come, he felt convinced, when all the coun-
tries of Europe would find it their interest to diminish rather
thin increase the duties on foreign imposts ; but the difficulty
which this league threw in the way of alteration was that no
one power could act without the common consent of all the
states embraced by the confederation. That was the principle
from which disadvantage was likely to arise. This disadvantage,
however, could only affect the States that were parties to the
league, and therefore it was most unfounded to imagine, though
reports to the effect had been industriously circulated, that it
would apply injuriously, to the trade of this country. The
Prussian tarif would of course be adopted by all the States
within the Confederation, and all he could say was, that if that
tariff were compared with the scale of duties in this country, it
could not be looked upon in that unfavourable light. He was
aware that some countries had raised their duties, while others
had not done so ; but he believed it would, on a survey of the
whole, be found, if the balance were struck, and an average
taken, that, generally speaking, the duties on the commodities
of this country had not been much increased. Formerly, it
should be recollected, if we required to penetrate to the heart
of Germany, we had five, six, twelve, or perhaps fifteen Cus-
tom-houses to encounter, but now the instant we passed the
frontier we would be at liberty to transport our commodity into
any part of Germany we pleased. While he made this state-
ment he begged it to be understood that he by no means
wished to speak in praise of the league. On the contrary, he
was free to admit that he considered the arrangement dis-
advantageous to this country. The Government did what
they could to oppose it, but as the system had been car-
ried into effect, they could not do otherwise than acquiesce in
it, and if he were a German certainly he' should be in
favour of it, inasmuch as nothing could be more inconve-
nient and harrassing than such a multiplicity of Custom-
houses as had previously existed. He had no doubt what-
ever that the abolition of those Custom-houses was the
reason which swayed the German people into the arrange-
ment, as they had long been anxious that their national
and social intercourse should be without such restraints.
The experience, however, of the last two or three years in the
practical working of the system clearly proved that the alarms
raised were altogether unfounded, for instead of our trade with
the Gorman States diminishing, it had actually increased. So
far then as experience went, it appeared that the league was
not disadvantageous to the commerce of Great Britain. His
Noble Friend (Lord Dudley Stuart) had called his attention
to the little value which was to be set upon the commercial re-
lations between this county and Russia. He would not deny
that the tie existing between England and Russia was founded
on a bad principle, and that the endeavour on the part of Rus-
sia to convert an agricultural population into a partially manu-
facturing population had been attended with injurious conse-
quences to this country. There could be no doubt of this ;
but then they should consider what it was that had led to the
change. It was when foreign corn and timber were excluded
from the ports of this country that the change first took place.
—( Hear.) But still, with all these disadvantages, he must
tell his Noble Friend that the Russian trade was of great im-
portance to this country. He did not urge this as a reason why
more weighty considerations should be lost sight of. No
such thing ; but because he believed the course taken was
not the one which some honourable Members of that
House had in view. It was not by calling the people of a
great nation barbarians, and assailing them by every species
of abuse, that good was to be obtained.—(Hear.) Let this
country take its stand on its own interest and honour, and if
either were attacked, why, then it would be sufficient time for
them to take their line, and be prepared to defend that line.
When the moment came they should be prepared to act, but
until that period had arrived (and be hoped it was far distant),
the less they said to the prejudice of the honour of another na-
tion the better. _ _ _

Sir R. INGLIS was understood to say that his Right Hon.
Friend ( Sir R. Peel) who sat near him had on the first night
of the present Session stated that the Government of this
country had more than a common interest in keeping the na-
tions of Europe at peace. In this opinion he entirely con-
curred, and although the interest which be took in the fate of
Poland was as deep as ever, he could not agree with what had
fallen from the Noble Lord opposite (the Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs) with respect to withholding the docu-
ments sought for by the present motion. There was
no circumstance which could call for the production of the
remonstrance made by the Government of this country to
the Emperor of Russia three years ago, on the subject of
Poland ; but although he said this he did not think it by any
means too much to hope that the Noble Lord would reiterate
that remonstrance whenever an opportunity of doing so should
present itself. He was as much opposed as any man to mere
idle demonstrations of war ; but he still thought as a nation
this country should be solicitous to guarantee to Poland all
that the Foles were entitled to according to the interpretation
riven by England and France to the treaty to which he allu.
ded The Noble Lord had alluded to the probable designs of
Russia on India, and there could be-no doubt that Russia had
not only obtained access to the whole of the east coast of the
Black Sea, but possessed very great influence along the west
coast of Persia.
Sir E. C ODRING TON must say that if the treaty of Lon-
don had been carried into effect no war would ever have taken
place in Turkey ; and, if that had been the case, Russiu would
have been in a widely different situation from that which that
country now occupied. It was quite evident that the Hon.
Gentlemen who had spoken in the course of the debate had
.:ever seen the voluminous documents called the Greek papers,
for if they had they must have seen that subsequnntly to
the battle of Navarino, the Emperor of Russia proposed

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 18

to his allies in London certain measures with respect to
Turkey, which would have been so satisfactory to all parties
that Turkey would have acceded to the treaty without hesita-
tion. These proposals appeared to him to have been made
with perfect sincerity; but whether the Emperor of Russia
had ultimate views and expectations or not, if those proposals
had been adopted, there could bo no doubt whatever that he
would not have the pretence for war with which the treaty of
Adrianople furnished him. It would have been his ( Sir
Edward Codrington's) duty to carry the arrangement into
effect, and if he had received the necessary orders, as he war
then in command of the three squadrons, it was utterly impos
sible that the Emperor of Russia could have done any thing to
prejudice the interests of England. But it was apparent
that Hon. Gentlemen were ignorant of the matter. Now
with respect to the present situation of Russia, and whatever
the Russian influence with the Sultm might be, he (Sir E.
Codrington) felt persuaded that if England were to hold out
the hand of amity to Turkey, our aament ally would gladly
accept it. He did not, however, think that there were sail_
cient grounds for such a course at present; but if ever Eng-
land had occasion to meet Russia on the subject of rights
under treaties, all this Government had to do was to give
their hand to Turkey. He was as anxious as any man could
be to avoid war, provided this country could do so with
honour; but he must, at the same time, say that they
should not be so secure of the continuance of peace
as to lower their power of preserving their honour by the only
moans by which it could be maintained, namely, the navy,
which he was sorry to say had been reduced below what was
either safe or ever prudent.—( Hear, hear.) He hailed with
with the utmost satisfaction the intimation which was given in
the Speech from the Throne of an intention to increase the
force of this service. With respect to the Prussian league he
hoped it was as innocent as the Right Hon. Gentleman would
have them believe it was. It seemed, however, extremely odd
that the Right Hon. Gentleman should reproach others for in-
troducing the subject, while be himself made a long speech
about it ; but for his ( Sir E. Codrington's) part, he was
strongly induced to think that this confederation was rather
moreinjurious than advantageous to this country. He thought
he saw in it more of political design than mere commercial ad-
vancement. Could it be supposed that the minor States who
were parties to this league would allow Prussia to collect their
taxes along the Rhine, and refuse that country military assist-
ance should it be required? He thought not ' • and what was
more, he believed the arrangement to have been originally
suggested by a desire on the part of Russia and Prussia to pa-
ralyse the interests and power of Austria and the other German
States. It would be better for this country to extend the re-
ciprocity system to Turkey than to any Power in Europe. No
customs, no taxes, were imposed on the commodities of this
country by Turkey ; and he, therefore, saw no reason why this
Government should not adopt a system of mutual advantage
with Turkey, which could afford an opening for our manufac-
times to the complete exclusion of all others.
Lord S AND 0 N was understood to say that the Noble Lord
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs had no objection to the pro-
duction of one of the papers sought for by this motion, namely,
the secret treaty of Unkiar Skelessi.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the treaty w3s not a se-
cret one.

provement which was its result would be instantly checked, and
each nation would be thrown upon its own resources for
improvement in the habits and manners of its people.
( Hear.) He considered that a general war would be nothing
else than a general calamity.—( Hear.) Russia knew well her
own interest. She knew well that it was not her interest to go
to war with this country. It was her interest to throw round
this country the net of diplomacy, and he cautioned his Majes-
ty's Ministers not to allow themselves to be so surrounded with
the meshes of diplomacy, so that they might too late find them-
selves unable to retreat with honour. The policy of England
was not to trouble herself about the balance of power in
Europe—she was as effectually separated from the Continent
of Europe by the channel that intervened as was the Continent
of America. During the power and greatness of Napoleon
he had never been able to land a single French soldier on the
shores of England, whilst this country, on the contrary, had
in America, at. the distance of two thousand miles across the
Atlantic, not only landed an army there but absolutely burned
down its capital.—( Hear.) The naval supremacy of England
was indisputable. -He would repeat in conclusion what he had
insisted on throughout, that the true policy of this country was
to see that her own interests were safe, and to endeavour, as
far as was consistent with her power and interest, to preserve
peace, as the consequence of a war between this country. and
Russia must be to produce a general conflagration amongst the
different states of Europe.—( Cheers. )
Sir S. CANNING differed in the doctrine that had been
propounded, that it was not the interest of this country to
interfere to preserve the balance of power in Europe.—
( Hear, hear.) He thought it would not be safe at this time
of day to set out upon a new principle, and set aside that
policy which had been the' policy of this country for the last
two centuries.—( Hear.) It would have been hardly safe,
after the peace of Europe had been broken up by the French
Revolution, that we should hare abstained from interference
in the relations of Europe, and leave those great interests to
be settled and determined by nations not always in harmony
with each other.—( Hee,. ) It was our duty to interfere. It
was our interest to 4 that the balance of power was pre-
served. It is nes- airy that this country should interfere and
see that the sem scy of her own interests was preserved, as
well also as to maintain the interests of those countries who had
sided with her in the great struggle which had taken place.
This was his opinion, and he felt quite certain that the opi-
nions of the House would go with him upon that point—
( Cheers.) At that advanced hour he did not intend to tres-
pass on the attention of the House at any length. What bad
induced him to rise at all was the reference that had been made
to a country, with which, in the course of the negotiations
that had taken place, he had been connected. He felt the
delicacy of the situation in which he stood of going into that
part of the subject before the House. With respect to what
had been said at the other side of the House, he certainly felt
much pleasure at hearing that the policy of the Government
would be to protect our interests, but at the same time as far
as possible to contribute towards the maintenance of peace.—
( Cheers.) Feace was at all times desirable, but more par-
ticularly so at present, when a great expansion of our com-
mercial intercourse was taking place, and which must of ne-
cessity be interrupted by the occurrence of war. The inter-
course of the Continental nations with this country was rapidly
on the increase, and at such a time it was the least desirable •
that any interruption to the progress of that intercourse should
take place, and it was for this reason that he felt gratified at
the assurance given by the Government that their policy would
still continue to be directed to the maintenance and preserva-
tion of peace.—( Cheers.) The Right lion. Gentleman pro-
ceeded to refer to the relations existing between Turkey and
Russia. The interests of Turkey had been sacrificed to
Russia. That events had occurred, even within the last few
years, of great advantage to Russia, no one would attempt to
deny. They all remembered on what the ancient system of
government in Turkey, and its former power, mainly depended,
namely on the great religious enthusiasm of the people,
and on a soldiery remarkable for discipline and bravery, at
a time when military discipline was in a very low state
in other countries.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") At the time
of the late war with Russia, Turkey had lost those advantages.
That religious enthusiasm which was the source of their mili-
tary animation and ardour was gone; and he certainly knew
no instance in the history of the world in which a nation having
once lost its enthusiasm had ever again recovered that spirit of
ardour of which that enthusiasm had been the source.—( Hear. )
If there was now any chance of Turkey becoming a rival to
the great Power of the North, it could only become so by ex-
tending to its people the advantages of European civilization.
Turkey,the wa
and in whichenabl
e theythat
twould
powerbest
tot promotem aimaintain
n
the
itself in-
ic
the northern Power. The only chance of redeeming
t against
ofwtwh aisch was left to that country was the developement of
riiitg:seaeiQlis itself
stn resources, by increased intercourse and the extension of Eu-
ropean civilization amongst its people.—( Hear.) In that
sense he was gratified to hear the opinions which had been al-
ready expressed. He had come down to the House totally un-
prepared to offer any observations on this subject, and, little
as he had been in the habit of troubling that House, he trusted
he should be excused for having entered on the subject,
and that some person more able than himself would do justice
to any portion of the subject which remained unobserved upon.
—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. P. STE WART quite agreed with what had fallen
from the Hon. Member for Bath, in deprecating war. He
certainly thought that war was to be avoided, but that if they
did enter into war they should do so with vigilance and vigour.
—(Hear, hear.) He quite agreed in what had been said with
respect to Poland. The condition of that country afforded a
,practical lesson to the Secretary for Foreign Affairs with
respect to the expectations that were formed of the policy of
Russia. He would beg to read, for it was very forcibly ex-
pressed, an opinion which had been given by the Noble Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs in a debate which took place in that
House three years ago. Upon a motion which had been
brought forward in that House in June, 1832, which was fully
discussed, and which laid the foundation of an opinion on the
subject, which was hourly advancing, and which nothing
could retard—in that debate the Noble Lord expressed
himself thus :—" As to the idea which appears to be
entertained by some as to the intention of the Russian
power to exterminate the Poles, it is perfectly un-
founded. The extermination of a large country by any hu-
man power is a moral and a political impossibility, and so
completely impracticable, that there can be no danger that such
an attempt will ever be contemplated." He would ask the
Noble Lord, whether he would now say that the attempt had
not been made ?—( Cheers.) What was the effect and ten-
dency of the organic law ? But let them look to what had
lately taken place at Warsaw, where the Russian Czar had
addressed to the Polish deputies a speech which caused Europe
to weep. After this, would the Noble Lord persist in saying
that the attempt had not been made ?—( Cheers.) That speech
had had one eulogist, and had some apologists. The eulogist
stated that it was pronounced with clemency. The apologists
that it was the product of madness. That the pressure of
two crowns upon thesame head had caused that madness of
which this threat was an emanation. He would not now re-
capitulate that speech. But he trusted, after what had hap-
pened, that his Majesty's Government would see the necessity
of using increased vigilance and caution, and regulating their
councils by their past experience. He was surprised that
in the speech of the Right Honourable President of the
Board of Trade, he had avoided alluding to Turkey. If
England wished to uphold her commercial interest and her
political integrity, it was her bounden duty to watch over
the diplomatic proceedings of Russia as respected Turkey.
He would admit that our trade with Russia was very exten-
sive, but it did not leave us the same balance as that with Tur-
key ; and there was further to be taken into consideration that
whilst our trade with the latter country was increasing our im-
ports were of raw produce ; whilst our exports were manu-
factured articles, and the trade was carried on in British bot-
toms. It should also be remembered that the Black Sea formed
tho citadel of this trade, which, if once closed, it would be'
difficult again to open. This sea had been described by Mid-
dleton as one in which there was no hidden danger. It might
be so to the mariner, but to the politician it was otherwise, and
therefore it was that they should urge increased vigilance with
respect to it.
Mr. C. FERG US SON could not agree in the selfish po-
licy of the Hon. Member for Bath. With regard to the cor-
respondence sought to be laid upon the table, he did not think
it would be prudent now to produce it, and he relied with the
utmost confidence upon the prudence, liberality, and firmness
of his Noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Department.
Mr. E WART was an advocate of all measures calculated
to produce peace, because only by peace could commerce ex-
ercise its great influence in spreading the blessings and the be-
nefits of civilization.

Lord S A ND ON knew it was no longer secret; but, with
respect to that treaty, he must say that he did not regard it as of
any value whatever, without the information which ought to ac-
company it. This was the opinion of the Noble Lord himself.
But to whom was it that this country owed the existence of the
influence which Russia now possessed at the Porte? Why, to
the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston) himself, who, by the line
of policy which the Government with which he was connected
had adopted had driven the Sultan to rely for assistance
against the Pacha of Egypt upon Russia, his near neighbour
and most dangerous friend. The Noble Lord had been warned
of the consequences of the course which he had pursued, and
the influence of England and Turkey was lost by the assertien
that that course was the only means by which the peace of
Europe could be preserved.—( Hear.) At every point they
were met by the bug-bear " Oh, we must preserve peace;"
but if, instead of acting as they had done, his Majesty's
Ministers had not waited until they were ceremoniously
called on to aid Turkey, but had at once tendered their assist-
ance all that had happened would have been avoided. He
feared it would now be extremely difficult to overcome the in-
fluence which Russia had acquired in Turkey ; but still he was
fully sensible of the danger of that influence. Already had
Russia, by means of caravans, insured the trade of the fron-
tiers of the east of Asia and along the coast of the Black Sea,
to the amount of perhaps a million and a half ; and another
means of advantage would be derived by that country from
the improvements effected in the navigation of the Danube, at.
the entrance of which a toll was actually levied on every ship
that passed. These were questions of great interest to Aus-
tria, who, by giving every possibly facility to steam navigation
on the Danube, hoped to give commercial life and activity to
Transylvania, Hungary, and the other parts of the Austrian
territory lying along either side of that river. It appeared that
the shipping intercourse between this country and that had
diminished with the lapse of some years. He had prepared
some extracts from papers on the subject, but which be would
not trouble the House by reading at present. However, it
appeared from those returns that the consumption of our
manufactured cotton had of late years dwindled down to
almost nothing.--(Cries of " Hear.") In fact, in Turkey,
the consumption of our manufactures was at present extremely
inconsiderable. He, however, did not wish to test the case
merely on those grounds of commercial interests, though to a
country like England the consideration of those interests was
of the utmost importance. He could not help thinking that
if at the time when the fate of Poland was in the balance, and
during that severe struggle which was protracted to an extent
that surpassed all expectation—if the Government of England
had consulted its interests it might, with advantage, have made
a decided and earnest remonstrance to Russia at that period.
They might have told Russia that she possessed Poland by no
right; but in virtue of a Constitution granted not by the
spontaneous generosity of the Russian Monarch, but forced
from him as some sort of guarantee to the other Powers of
Europe.—( Hear.) He could not help thinking that if Eng-
land at that time joined with France, and took advantage of
the co-operation of Aostria, who entertained natural feelings
of jealousy towards Russia, their combined and decisive inter-
ference, if it had not been fully effectual, would at least have
so far succeeded as to have mitigated those measures subse-
quently taken towards Poland.—( Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK knew the notion that prevailed as to the
necessity of preserving the balance of power in Europe, and
the duty of this country to interfere for that purpose, but in
that political notion he did net by any means concur. He was
well aware that this doctrine was not a popular one in that
House; but, though it might be new there, it was not new
outside of the House, and it was one u hich he was glad to
perceive was very rapidly and extensively gaining ground. In
considering the motion before the House, they might be led
into a discussion which might, it was said, lead to a war.
With respect to what had been said by the Noble Lord who
had introduced the motion, and by the Hon. Member for Bir-
mingham, as to the propriety of denouncing war against
Russia, he certainly did not concur; but he equally differed
from the moderate and cautious tone which the Noble
Lord who spoke on the part of his Majesty's Government
had adopted, and who seemed to tell them that they should
cower before the power of Russia—( Hear, hear)—who
would make them believe that they were afraid to talk
outright, or to take a bold and fearless part whenever it
should be necessary to vindicate the honour, the pride, or the
national greatness of England.—( Cheers.) He did not cer-
tainly think that they should threaten Russia with denuncia-
tions of war ; but he equally repudiated the notion that when
they had anything to demand from Russia, they should cower
down before her.—(Cheers.) The true policy of England
was, always openly to avow that she would always be ready
and determined to vindicate her interests in any part of the
globe, whenever or wherever they were aggressed or encroached
on.—( Cheers.) He trusted that they would never place re-
liance on any quarter, but that they would always firmly and
proudly rely upon their own strength, and their own.national
sense of justice.—( Cheers. ) Whilst it was the policy of
England not to wish for war, it was her pride her character to
dread no enemy.—(Great cheering.) But, suppose they
at war to-morrow with Russia, what would be the result ?
Why, in one single month one Russian flag would not be li
seen to float in any sea in Europe, and in another month
they would close up the commercial resources of Russia.
Had they not before them the example of what had hap-
pened with the Emperor Napoleon ? What was it that
induced the Emperor of Russia to declare war with the
Emperor of the French, and to commit himself against
that great genius and all his gigantic powers, but that it
was impossible for Russia to do without the trade and
the commercial intercourse with England? Napoleon, carry-
ing out the principles of his Continental policy, attempted to
exclude the trade of England, and the Russian Monarch, at
the head of the Russian aristocracy, felt that the possession of
that trade was vital to the interests of Russia, and this it was
that compelled Alexander, and that would and must compel
any Czar, to go to war for the protection of this indispensable
commercial intercourse.—(Hear.) This, then, must be the
result of a war between this country and Russia. One month
would sweep the seas of every Russian flag, and another month
would be sufficient to empty the seas of the Czar. His Ma-
jesty's Government seemed to speak as if they thought that in
that British Parliament men should be afraid to spealt
their opinions touching Russia, lest they might excite the
indignation of the Czar. What, were they in that House
to fear to say what they thought of the conduct of the
Czar towards Poland—(Cheers)—to speak what they
thought of the monstrous atrocities which in the name of
that Monarch had been perpetrated upon an unfortunate
and gallant people ? ( Hear.) Was that sense of national
justice and morality which the Right Hon. Baronet the
Member for Tamworth had so properly described as an
European feeling to shrink from reprobating the atrocities
perpetrated towards Poland ? Was he, as an individual, to
fear to characterise conduct which justified them in designating
the Russian Czar and his horde as a band of barbarians, in-
flicting vengeance on a gallant and devoted people ?—( Hear. )
But when be spoke this, was that any evidence of his disposi-
tion to go to war ? They had a right to express their abhor-
rence of such conduct ; but whilst they did so, it was their
duty as one of the great confederacy of European nations, to
take care of their own interests, and let other nations take care
of theirs.—( Hear.) With regard to a war with Russia, he
was not prepared to say what good or what mischief it might
produce. With respect to the good that might arise, it was
at best problematical ; with regard to the mischief, he was
equally doubtful ; but one thing was as clear as the sun at
noonday, that the necessary consequence of a war with Rus-
sia would be to involve Europe in a general war. One of the
evil results of a general European war, would be to put a
stop to that general improvement which was rapidly taking
place throughout the different countries of Europe in the ha-
bits and manners of the people, and which improvement would
be checked and impeded if anything arose to break up the
general intercourse prevailing amongst the several European
countries. If that intercourse were put au end to, that im-

Lord DUDLEY STUART replied. It was not his fault
if he had been compelled to dilate on the subject which he
felt it his duty to bring before the House, for, of course, it
extended as Russia herself extended her frontiers. He was
not the advocate of war • but it did not therefore follow that
he should not be the advocate of precaution. The best way
to avert war was to be prepared to meet it. The Hon. Mem-
ber for Bath said he had no fear of Russia. Neither had he
(Lord Dudley Stuart), but still he thought it the best policy
not to despise an enemy. He did not think the power of
'Russia so formidable as that this country should quail be-
fore it. If now it assumed a haughty tone he did not fear
but we could crush it; but if we permitted it to seize upon
the Dardanelles, and to destroy the independence of Turkey,
it would then become formidable. Ministers could, if they
pleased, in the strength of their power, withhold the docu-
ments which he sought for, but he did not think that they
could consistently refuse them. When a motion was formerly
made for the production of the treaty, it was said by the Noble
Lord that it would not be fair to produce the treaty without
the correspondence ; but now the treaty was offered, yet the
correspondence was refused. This proceeding was very un-
intelligible, and he hoped the Noble Lord would accede to
his motion. _ _

The question was then put, when it was agreed to furnish
the Treaty of Constantinople of July, 1833, but that ()f St.
Petersburgh, of Jan. 1834, as well as the correspondence, were
withheld.

PERQUISITES IN PUBLIC OFFICES.
Mr. HUME obtained a Select Committee to inquire into
the total amount of all fees, gratuities, perquisites, and emo-
luments of every kind (not fixed salary) which are now re-
ceived in the several public offices (Courts of Law excepted)
;V 1)y all public officers in the United Kingdom, for any ser-
vice done in every appointment or commission, and to ascer-
tain the expense of collecting, and the authority under which
those fees are paid; how much to each, and for what pur-
pose ; and also the amount of fixed salary to every person re-
ceiving any, portion of fees, and charged in person or in duty;
also to ascertain and report what measures have been adopted
respecting
tees since 25 Geo. 111., cap. 19.
Mr. W. H ORD moved the re-appointment of the Com-
mittee on bribery and intimieation at elections, which being
nominated, the House adjourned at half-past 12.

COMMITTEES•
Tlie following are the names of the Honourable Mem-

hers who compose the Committees which were appointed
last night : •
TURNPIKE ROADS CONSOLIDATION BILL.-Mr. F. Mamie,
Sir J. Wrottesley, Earl of Darlington, Lord Viscount Clive,
Mr. Byng, Sir E. Knatchbull, Mr. A. Sanford, Mr. B.
Thompson, Mr. Goring, Mr. Mackinnon, Mr. Parrott, Mr.
Halford, Mr. E. Buller, Mr. Shaw Lefevre, and Mr. W.
Henry Ord.
FEES. —Mr. Hume, Mr. William Henry Ord, Mr.
Aglionby, Mr. Gillon, Mr. Pusey, Mr. Sergeant Goulburn,
Mr. Leader, Mr. Harvey, Mr. Wallace, Sir G. Clerk, Sir T.
Fremantle, Mr. Hogg, Mr. M. O'Ferrall, Mr. F. Baring
(Thetford), and Mr. W. Marshall.
BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS.-Mr. W. H. Ord, Mr. Wynne,
Mr. Poulter, Mr. Grote, Sir G. Clerk, Mr. Jackson, Mr.
S. 111‘Kenzie, Mr. Sheil, Lord J. Stuart, Mr. Warburton,
Mr J. S. Wortley, Mr. Parker (Sheffield), Sir H. Hardinge,
Mr. C. A. Walker, and Mr. A. Lefroy.

RAILWAYS.
The Stockport and Manchester—Durham Junction—Mer-
thyr Tydfil and Cardiff—and a Bill to alter the Great Western
Railway, No. 1, were presented and read a first time
Petitions for Bills for the London and Blackwall—and York
North Midland Railways, were reported, and the Bills ordered
to be brought in:

Petitions for the London and Brighton, No. 2—Manches-
ter and Leeds—London Grand Junction—Glasgow and Airdrie
—Pollock and Govan—Dublin and Kilkenny—Aylesbury—
South Durham—Bolton and Leigh—Dundee and Newtyle—
Northfleet and Dover—Birmingham, Bristol, and Thames
Junction—Great Western, No. 2—London and Cambridge—.
Monkland and Falkirk—Edinburgh, Leith, and Newhaven—
London and Norwich—Festiniog—London, Shoreham, and
Brighton—Great Northerri—Chelmsford—and Thames Haven
Railway and Dock, were referred to the Representatives of
the Districts through which the respective Railways pass.

FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETTE.

CROWN-OFFICE, FEB. 19, 1836.

MEMBERS RETURNED TO SERVE IN THIS PRESENT PARLIAMENT.

BOROUGH OF STOKE-UPON-TRENT.—Lieutenant-Colonel the
Hon. George Anson, in the room of Richard Edensor Heathcote,
Esq., who has acce-pted the Chiltern Hundreds.
BOROUGH OF 111ArzoN.—John Walbanke Childers, of Cantley,
in the county of York, Esq., in the room of the Right Hon. Sir
Charles Christopher Pepys, now Baron Cottenham.
BOROUGH OF CocimitmouTH.—Ed ward Horsman, of the city of
Edinburgh, Esq., in the room of Fretchville Lawson Ballantine
Dykes, Esq., who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.

ST. JAMES'S PALACE, Feb. 13, 1836.
The King has been pleased to appoint E. Pearson, Esq. Lieute-
nant of His Majesty's Guard of Yeomen of the Guard.

WHITEHALL, FEB. 17

The King has been pleased to grant unto the Rev. R. D. Hamp-
den, D.D., the office and place of Regius Professor of Divinity in
the University of Oxford, together with the place and dignity of a
Canon of the Cathedral church of Christ, in the said University,
properly belonging to the Regius Professor of Divinity in the said
University, being void by the death of Doctor Edward Burton.

WHITEHALL, FEB. 17.
The Lord Chancellor has appointed Samuel Barber, of Bridg-
north, in the county of Salop, Gent., to be a Master Extraordinary
in the High Court of Chancery.