The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-08 00:00:00

satisfactory reason whatever fot introducing Reform to
this extent. He did not recollect that the Noble
Earl in any way pointed out the circumstances likely to
result from a measure like the present. Every thing, there.
fore turned on the extent of the measure. The Noble
Earl, instead of pointing out the nature of this
Reform measure, instead of sbewing upon what
grounds it was that a Reform to this extent was
required, instead of pointing out the consequences likely
to result from a measure like this, either advantageously or
otherwise, the Noble Earl thought proper to attack the
late Administration, of whom he (Lord Lyndhurst) had
the honour of forming a part ; the Noble Earl thought
proper to make an attack on the Duke who was
at the head of that Government, and who was present
to defend himself, and the Noble Earl thought proper to
make an attack on a Right Hon. Friend of his (Lord L.)
who was absent, and had not the means of defending himself;
and the Noble Lord thought proper in introducing a mea-
sure so pregnant with importance to amuse the House by
referring, not the third time, but the thousandth time, to
the postponement of his Majesty's visit to the city. Fol-
lowing the Noble Earl, other Noble Lords appeared on
the same side; but he (Lord Lyndhurst) could not recol-
lect that any one of them had given any reason whatever
for the adoption of a measure of this kind. He did
not recollect that any of those Noble Lords had
pointed out the probable circumstances attending the
adoption of a measure of this description, upon
the extent of which measure its adoption, or non-adop-
tion, must depend. He (Lord L.) had thought his Noble
and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, with his master
mind, would have grappled with this view of the
subject. He had attended, however, to that Noble and
Learned Lord's speech from the commencement to the end,
and he had not stated a single word in point of argil-
'tient, for the express purpose of satisfying the House
that the adoption of a measure of Reform to the extent
now proposed was necessary. This was the more re-
markable, as it must have been obvious to their Lordships
throughout that such a measure of Reform as this was
not called for, and that the consequences of its adoption
would 4e most pernicious. Their Lordships, who
objected to the principle of this Bill, objected to the adop-
tion of so -comprehensive a Reform—a measure which
was entirely subversive of the whole constituency under 1
which we lived, and placed a. new constituency in the
room of the existing one—a new representative body
of an entirely new character. Their Lordships who
objected to the measure in this light did not object
to Reform altogether, but objected to this particul tr
and special measure, upon the grounds and principle
which he (the Noble and Learned Lord) had pointed
out. Their Lordships, who objected to this measure,
were stigmatised, he (the Noble and Learned Lord)
would not say within the walls of that House, though
even there they were not treated with any thing more than
courtesy, hut they were stigmatised by others as being
persons capable of being improperly influenced—capable of
acting upon sordid motives. He (the Noble and Learned)
did not believe that of those who opposed this measure
of Reform on the side of the House on which he stood
there were six individuals who had any connection with
nomination boroughs. Passing that over, it was
desirable that those who were contending against
the principle of this measure, and who had been levelled
at by the public Press,_ should have at least the oppor-
tnnity of stating, in their vindication, that if they
did err they did not err except under
the sanction of the opinions of the Noble Lords on the
other side. The battle the opponents of this Bill were novt
fighting—the principles which they were now contending,
had been advocated and held at different times by the
greatest statesmen and the most profound politicians whom
this country had ever produced. To those brilliant names
which had been mentioned in the course of this debate,
many others might be added; but he passed from
the dead to the living. He passed from those who were
the opponents of this measure to the authority of those
who had brought the Bill into that House. On the
first day of opening the last session of Parliament
the Noble Earl at the head of the Government made a
most brilliant speech. In that speech he stated that he
had in early life pressed this great question of Reform
with all the warmth—perhaps he ought to have said
with all the rashness of youth, and had been inclined to go
much further then than he was now. If their Lordships
would contrast the measure of Reform now brought into
their Lordships' House, with any measure either formerly
brought in or formerly supported by the Noble Earl, it would
at once be seen to what-an infinite extent this surpassed
them all. There was connected with that speech of the Noble
Eat l's, at the opening of the last Parliament, this remarkable
fact, to which he (the Noble and Learned Lord)
begged to draw the attention of the House, that
a Noble Baron who then sat near him (Lord
Lyndhurst), immediately rose and congratulated the
House on the tenure of the Noble Earl's speech. He
stated that it gave him great pleasure to find the opinion
of the Noble Earl to be what he had stated it to
be, and yet, however, when the present Bill
came to be laid on their Lordships' table,
brought in by that same Noble Earl, that Noble Baron
found it to be so inconsistent with the declaration of
the Noble Earl that he should decidedly oppose it.—
(Cheers from the Opposition side.) He had to appeal,
therefore, to the Noble Earl to explain the inconsistency
that appeared in this respect. There was another point to
which the Noble Lord wished to draw the attention of the
House in his speech. He stated that he hoped his .111a-
jesty's Ministers were maturing some great measure of
Re'orm, which might be carried into effect without
impairing the Constitution.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
lie (the Noble and Learned Lord) believed that in 1810
the Noble Earl recommended a gradual, and temperate,
and judicious measure of Reform. In another speech
delivered, he believed, in 1817, by the same Noble Earl, the
measure of Reform declared by him to be necessary for the
country was a gradual and temperate Reform. Upon
every occasion, therefore, when the question been
introduced to the consideration of Parliament, such
had
were the opine). • es that had been expressed by the
Noble Earl at the head of the Government. Under
1 ~eaarnnde
da fLtenr
rda 1)1
htslide
bceoenns isdbelreattoi ogni
vweh !el!:
gh
lithuleee(ssettiimocenirNeul,:bonwiesitfaannbt?ilfuerier
Ltlomidsillliopusse,mandies firm persu
asion
was, false
esn
step,io
was, that
and went one single degree too far on the present
occasion, their condition would be irretrievable.—(Hear,
hear, from the Opposition.) He therefore could not
but feel surptised that the Noble Earl should have
brought forward, not a temperate and gradual mea-
wihnigehbuitt
swuarse
almost
osßtefionrinspo,ssbituate acoumbeiasuleraed oftoßefrm
thing anyo
national convulsion.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was
necessary
thosewho had to oppose this measure
should fortifythemselves as much as possible, even
y thie
u that
of those to whom they stood op-
posed : and with this view he could not but refer
to the opinions of the Noble Lord who had brought this
Bill to their Lordships' bar. That Noble Lord had been
all his life the advocate of Reform. In 1819 one of
the roost eloquent speeches that ever was uttered on the
subject had been addressed to Parliament by him
against those boroughs which were now the subject of
attack, and which were supposed to be a blemish in the
Constitution, boroughs which it was said ought to he
eradicated, not merely by degrees, but in the
sweeping manner described and pointed out by the Bill, '
What was the language of that Noble Lord on the occasion
referred to ? Ile said that the borough of Old Sarum
was in existence when some of the great men of the
s,,entry framed our Constitution ; that Rutland re-
turned the same number of Members as York when
Hampden bled for the Constitution.—(Hears) Going
on, he observed, that the principles upon which the Con-
stitution of the House of Commons depended were pure
and worthy, and should we pursue any system of change
in the Constitution of the country, we should be guilty
of the fully of tAte story io the history of Aladdin
vbere the servant was deceived by the cry of new lamps
fur old ones.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Such
was the strain adopted by the Noble Lord in lBlq to
whom he had alluded. But another Noble Viscount
opposite, who spoke with much eloquence the other day,
stated in a speech so manly and energetic that he could
never forget it, that he would nut stay to inquire whether
'folded
there was 'too, much or too little of democracy in the Cone
etitotior; of our HoOses of Parliament, but he would boldly
assert that Parliament ought to do nothing calculated to
diminish the influence of that democracy.—(Cheers.)
He would advert also to what had been stated by the Noble
and Learned Lord now on the Woolsa4. He referred
not to the
upulafnol
ee
oLpt;;srredi
tilar
eiyandtt b
m4e
stillon u3:s now
o it}
Yorkshire, nor to the plan whiah he unfolded
s.ullbaltte:hnatttlli
ya titnhe
numeroustNh eoble and Learned
ut he
repair, notentire
t constituency o
of n. h
l4refeered to his speech on the first
day cf the opening of last Parliament. He then said
my object is to restore the Constitution to its original
purity—my object is to Reform, not to change—my
object is t
alters
I would ask him now if the introduction 'of the Bdl
which the
d
substitutes another for, it, can be reconciled to those decla-
rations. He had n
(Lord Lyndhurst)
in
a country,padrtcheers.),
of
no doubt that his
Noble and Learned Friend referred
speech to that which had been decided by the Cow'
mittee of Election that the common law right of
representation in the House of Commons, was in

inhabitant householders ; but his Noble and Learned
Friend must well know that this was subject to qualifica-
tion, and that it was only where there was no title by
charter the common law' right representation was in the
inhabitant householders.--(Lowl cheers from the Oppo-
sition.)

The LORD CHANCELLOR—I have no objection to
the Noble Lord's making use of that, or any other
letter of mine, which be way have obtained by the
same means as he has this. A servant slole
that letter and sold it to a Newspaper. It contained my
opinions at that time, and I have not changed since. It is
the Noble Lord who has changed.
Lord LYNDHURST said, that he would not have
used the letter at all had be been aware of the
manner in which it had obtained publication.
He did not make use of the letter as an
argument of his; but, considering that it contained the
Noble and Learned Lord's opinions in his calm moments,
he had made use of it to show the change that
had lately come over the Noble and Learned
Lord's mind. The second reading of the Bill in the
Commons, was carried by a majority of 135. The
last reading by only a majority of 109. Their Lord-
ships were bound to treat the Bill with the highest
respect, as having come from the House of Commons,
but that by no means pledged them to pass it. The
question of Parliamentary Reform had been before the
House of Commons for the last thirty years, and had al-
ways been received adversely. And if they were now to
look at the majority in the present Parliament, they must
also look at how the question had been received by former
Parliaments. How had the present majority been obtained?
By the last dissolution, when people's minds were excited
on this very question by the French revolution. The
people were asked by Ministers, "Do you want more
power in the State?" Naturally the answer was, that the
country was put in flames at the elections that followed
that dissolution, the natural consequence was, that the
candidates were asked, will you vote for this Bill? And
even of er the candidates had been chosen, in many cases
a Committee was formed to watch the conduct of the
representatives. With all the respect which he had
for Ministers, he must say that it was on them that all the
responsibility would rest, if the country were disturbed.
Their fault it was, and the blame could attach to them alone.
His Noble Friend had asked that, if the Bill were rejected,
who could be found to carry on public affairs under such
circumstances? He must say that although there
were in the present Government men of great public cha-
racter, yet he could not help adverting to their conduct
since they came into office, to their bringing forward two
measures which had failed, to their bringing forward the
present measure, and the manner in which it had been
brought forward.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He
would•not say that persons were to be found more corn.
potent to form an Administration, but as competent as the
present. But if he were to state what his wishes were,
he would rather that the present Ministers should retain
their places, because they were disposed to secure the peace
of the country, and more particularly he should wish so,
if they would bring forward a more moderate system of
Reform.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) The Government
of this country consisted of three estates, mutually fitting
and adjusting each other ; and they had been so blended as
to give a more perfect system of Government than prevailed
in any other country. Therefore let them be cautious how
they abandoned such a happy state. The object of the
Bill was to change not only the system of representation,
but also the character of the representatives.—.(Loud
cheers from the Opposition.) It was in fact a
change in the Constitution of the country, and what se.
curity had they that the results would be beneficial? The
supporters of the Bill had stated that they hoped it would
work well, but that it was impossible to tell until it
was put into practice.—(Cheers from the Opposition.)
Then would they destroy a system which had been pro-
ductive of great benefits, and under which the country
had prospered, and adopt a new one, which might prove to
be injurious—and if it did so it would then be too late to
withdraw it. He did not deny that the House of Commons
was open to some objections, from the effect of time, but
for 200 years the Constitution of it had been the same as
at present, and lie would ask, had any case been made
out to justify the present Reform Bill.—(Loud cheers.)
Was there ever less of interference in elections than at pre-
sent? Quite the reverse. It was well known that in the
time of Henry the Third the Crown nominated all the
Members for boroughs throughout the kingdom, and they
had another instance of a Privy Council nominating Members.
He only adverted to these facts in order to show that the
nomination system had been much more extensive than it
now was; and was it to be contended that the owners of
the Castles of Appleby, Warwick, and others should have
nothing to say in the elections for those planes? But
look at the state of the House of Commons. He would
ask what bad the House of Commons done that they were
thus to be cashiered ? and he entreated the House to look
to what the country owed to that House. At no time
during the existence of that legislative body, were there
more intelligence, purity, and independence than there had
been for the last 15 years, Adverting to the promises held
out by his Majesty's Ministers, the Noble and Learned
Lord said, that his Noble Friends entered offioe with
strong professions of economy and retrenchment. He
would ask what had they done since they had been in
office? They found that so much had been previously
done by way of economy and retrenchment by
their predecessors that they could do nothing mere oon-
sistently with the established institutions of the ountry.—
(Cheers from the Opposition.) It had been said that the
military establishment of the country was too large ; bad
they reduced it? Instead of finding it too large, his Noble
Friends had increased it.--(Cheers from the Opposition.)
Then what was there to call for that great change which
was the foundation of the Bill now on their Lordships'
table ? He and those on his side of the House subscribed
to the object of the Bill, which was Reform, but not to
the principle of it. The Nob'e Earl (Grey) had stated that
if it went into Committee he would not allow the Bill
to be substantially altered. What would be the conse-
quence of that? What would the House of Commons say,
it they did alter it? They would then have a free con-
ference.—(Loud che. rs from the (apiaosition echoed from
the Ministers.) He should deplore the consequences of
such a course as being tnore likely to promote permanent
discord than anything else. The principle of the Bill
should be one of enfranchisement; but this was one of
disfranchisement, for it would disfranchise a great number
of places, and leave 35 Members not disposed of. But of
these 35, it •was intended to give five to Scotland and
five to Ireland. Surely a more mischievous plot
never entered into the mind of man. —(Cheers from the
Opposition ) As the case now stood, the representation
with regard to Ireland and Scotland was provided for by
contract ; but would not Ireland complain that with her
seven millions she had only 10 ltlemiiets, while England,
with her 12 millions, had 513 ?—(Loud cheers.)
The lines of population as proposed by the Bill, were of
the most arbitrary nature. No reason or cause lied been
assigned for them, and they had been productive of the
most crying injustice, while at present the boroughs
rested on prescription foonded on reason. What
he would ask, had been offered to justify such a departure
from a principle of reason and justice? There was to be a
general and entire disfranchisement in every part of the
empire; and was it not for the Noble Lords oppo-
site to assign a renson, and to state by what right they
divested parties of their property? But they we;e sold that
the present rights were to be continued parties who were
in existence. If there had t.cn an abuse of time, by
whom had it been ccaimitted ? By the existing
indi-
viduals to whom the right of voting was resery4. What
wl-is the proposed substitution ? Whys centers at three
and tenpence a week. 'The vog-, worst species of repre-
sentation that could ruse devised, for the scot and lot voters
were alwais the most corrupt. The plan of voting
instituted had been already altered thrss) or four
times, and therefore he asks,!, what confidence
could they have in this Bit) l Another difficulty, and one
admitted to be s;-., by his Noble Friends, was that the
King i selecting his Officers of State could not be
sure o( placing them in parlieasie:At.—(Loud cheers.)
Another objection he 44 was that the honourable profes-
siOrt of whissli ha was a member, could only find its
wry into that House, by a course of agitaiiiin.—
(Cheers.) From the first view that be took of the
Bill, he had endeavoured to consider in what situa-
tion it wculd place the House of Commons.-
167 Member; were to be taken away ; given to
co:4,nties ; 50 to large towns, who cion;ii ;awn such per-
sons as he had described addition to which there
were 35 more taken from the Aristocratical part of
oY would see, that the agitators. Then
a
the kingdom.
ss thrown be I'
ihengtoreathtee d rpeamrlocorfattliceaslyssctaelme,ianuss-8' cogftiatnd
he
Members for Ireland three-fourths venilti be returned
v“.',uld
would
;he HVusebe"it
of
House would constitute a fierce detnocratical; 4ssembly.
He wo knew what the present Melee of Commons
was at this time, and how yew unmanageable even
Catholics htohleio, c s
together, w
ho wo
under its present construction, but if that change took
place it would be an unmanageable democratic body, too
much for the House of Lords, and would endanger
the safety of the Crown ; so that, ultimately, whatever
eight be' the name of the Government, this country would
!levee republic.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He had to
defend the institutions of his country.. He wished for no
change, nor for a republic, but he considered republics in
general vicious, arbitrary, cruel, and unsteady. He

wduld not, - hotvev6r; hazard such a Governmma •
the present time as this country was blessed with,
for the purpose of accepting such a change. Ho
asked what would be the consequence in Ireland.
Would the Church in that country stand.—(Cheers.
The Protestants there were but few, but their great
wealth gave them the balance of power, but would that
power stand when the representation was thrown hate
the bands of the Catholics. The Noble and Learned Lord
contended that the present measure would bring destruc-
tion on the proposers of it, and after an earnest appeal to
the House to do its duty, regardless of the menaces of an
infuriated Press, sat down amidst load cheers from his side
of the House.

Lords TENTERDEN and HOLLAND rose at the same
time ; but Lord HOLLAND being loudly called for, the
Noble and Learned Lord gave way.

Lord HOLLAND said he rose to claim a moment's attention
in consequence of the sneers and sarcasm directed against him
by a Noble and Learned Lord, because he had ventured to say
that he believed the people were sincere in their petitions when
they prayed for Reform, and said nothing of the ballot and uni-
versal outline. If the Noble and Learned Lord derived any
advantage from his sneers and sarcasm, in designating him in.
nocent and simple—(Order, order.) He spoke to order. ,
Lord LYNDHURST rose to explain. !,•
A crowd of Noble Lords rose on the other side.
Lord KENYON spoke to order, and maintained Lord Lynd- '
hurst had a right to speak to order when another Noble Lord •
who was speaking to order was himself disorderly.
Earl GREY said, that his Noble Friend was not speaking to
order; he had not yet spoken on the Bill, and had, therefore,
a full right to be heard.
Lord HOLLAND then said he was not speaking to order ;
but as he was personally alluded to, he threw himself on the
mercy of the House, and begged them to hear him for a few
moments.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord had
taken occasion to make a remark respecting his having declarta
in presenting petitions from the people for Reform, when there
was perfect silence as to the ballot, that he believed in their
sincerity, and to ask was he so very simple and innocent as to
believe this because they had so expressed themselves ? If there
be any great wit or advantage in this sarcasm, said his Lord-
ship, I leave the Noble and Learned Lord all the advantage,
But I still confess I am simple enough to believe the people,
and I tell him I do so because I am in the habit of speaking .„
what I think myself, and nothing but what I think, and of be-
lieving that others speak what they think, and nothing but
what they think, unless I am so unfortunate as to be persuaded
by facts and observations that what one says is not what oue
thinks—and that he does not say all that he thinks. lam still
simple and foolish, and innocent enough to believe the people
of England, and I hope the House will believe them top, and
grant the prayer of their petition.
Lord LYNDHURST was perfectly sure that he had not al-
luded to the Noble Lord in anything except the most courteous
manner. If he was misunderstood by the Noble Baron, he was
sorry for it, and begged to assure him he did not mean him
any discourtesy or cdfrrice,

Lord TENTBRDEN declared his opposition to a measure
of Reform so sweeping as that proposed—and remarked that it '
had been observed the same arguments which were directed ;
against this exclusive measure of Reform would equally apply
to any other measure of moderate Reform. Now he contended, '
that if the precedent Neese once set, of altering the Constitution,
the same arguments urged in favour of the change would apply
to measures for utterly destroying all our institutions. He de-
clared that he paid the greatest deference to the opinions of the
middle classes, and entertained the greatest affbction, he might
say, for them, as it was from them he sprung.
..
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY said—My Lords I
would have been glad to have arisen at an earlier hour, and if I
had succeeded in carrying my intention into effect, I would have
taken the liberty of entering into a full account of the reasons
which place me under the painful necessity of opposing a mea-
sure which has been strongly recommended to us IsY his Ma- -
jesty's Ministers, and which has been sent up to us by a majo-
rity of the other Hougo. But having been disappointed in this
wish, and after the splendid display of argument and eloquence
which has been made by many Noble Lords on the opposite
hefiehes, I should be guilty of injustice to myself and
your Lordships were I to treepas long upon you at this late
hour.—(Hear, hear,) I shall therefore confine myself to a few
words, which I eertainly would not trouble you with, if I did
not feel it neeessary to do justice to myself, by briefly giving my
o,Piniell Upon the general subject or Retbrm. And, my Lords, I
must say that my sincere attachment to our happy Constitution
does not carry me so far as to deny that it has defects and ano-
malies ; nor am I so, hired in affection for things as they are as
to be hostile to all improvement. My Lords, whatever abuses
may 'Aye swept into our Constitution by time or vicious prac-
tices I desire to remedy by *came safe and constitutional mea-
sure. To Reform such abuses as have crept in is my wish ;
and I have the happiness of bellowing that the whole
Right Reverend Bench concur in this sentiment. I
have howl with great satisfaction the opinions delivered
thhaevier seppop
ok el
int i
e.rki n i
so Ida pi
ro a ie e opposition
ntoot tahgi
as i Bn
si Itl , t adllne
l,Thia:e'
in the course of this debate by several Noble Lords who
eipdl :col af
rtedh e It ihi lalt,
or rather the general principle of Bothnia, and that they were
ready to accede to a measure of gradual, temperate, and safe
Reform.—(Hear, hear, hear.) In these sentiments I cordially
concur, and I cannot help hoping that a union of men of all
Parties, having the sane objects in view, namely, the good of
the country, assay take place, and that they may prepare some
meass.re so closely guarded as to remove the apprehensions of
those who fear for our institutions, and sufficiently extensive to
satisfy all moderate leas, and all friends of the Constitution,
who admire ita excellence, and desire to repair its defects and
remove its hie:Maims. lam perfectly aware that this may ap-
poet Chimerical, and I feel that many and great difficulties
would impede its completian ; but in proportion to the
difficulties would Ise the claim of those persons
upon the gratitude of the country, who should
at the exponso at' the sacrifices it would require, conduct this
enterpeice to a happy conclusion. I have only to add, that
if it be your Lordship's pleasure to pass the Bill, I shall most
seriously rejoice to find my apprehensiona groundless; and if
on the Contrary, your Lordship should deem it expedient to
throw the Bill out; and that popular violence—which I do not
anticipate--(Hear, hear)--should result from this proceeding, I
will cheerfully bear my share of the general calamity--(Cheers)
—and I shall have the consolation for the few years, or days, l
may have to, live, of reflecting that I have not been actuated
by shliSteli motives, but that I opposed the Bill fairly, and in
perfect purity of heart, believing it to be mischievous in its
tendency and dangerous to the fabric of the Constitution.--(The
Rev. Prelate resumed his seat amidst general cries of " Hear.")
The Duke of SUSSEX having been personally alluded to,
begged to oftbr a few observations in answer to a Noble and
iseesened Baron, and a Noble Baron who bad with great courtesy
aldressed him. I think (said the Illustrious Duke) that the
Noble and Learned Lord, in stating the origin of the other
House of Parliament, laid down his position fairly ; but I differ
with him in his conclusions, The House of Commons, I
think, was raised up by the Crown, as a balance against the
power of the Aristocracy ; but the power of the Crown
has, for many reasons, become much lets since that peruse
• I impute no undue motives to the Noble Lords who oppose this
Bill. I certainly have party feeltnes, but those feelings do not
prevent me from respecting those who differ from use. But, my
Lords, what is the oats of this Bill ? Your Lordships hay,
received front the. Besuse of Commons a Bill, which they sub.
mit to your, estnsideration. In favour of that Bill numberlee
petitiSsea have been presented; a.WI I say, therefore, that the
Bill is in conformity with tlm opinions of the people. It ha•
been the fashion with same Noble Lords to treat the peoph
with disrespect. A gannet agree with the Noble Lords in that
sentiment, A know the people better than many of your Lord.
ships des My situation, nay hahtts of life, my connection with
m,rsy charitable institutions, and other circumstances on which
I do not now wish to enter minutely, give use the means of
knowing then. 4am in the habit iof talking with them from
the highest to the lowest. I believe they have confidence in
me, and that they tell me theist honest sentiments ; and my
firm conviction, arising from the strong feeling which I have I
heard expressed tin this subject, is, that it is ;absolutely neces-
sary that this Bittl should be adopted, to meet the improved
conditloss c the people. My Lordly I have visited several me-
chs,shics societies, both in Lonclost and Nottingham, and else-
where, and I can assure. your Lordships that many of them
possess libraries ecasal, to any nobleman's, replete with works
calculated to, issstrisct the mind and %cm the heart. Have
they not as emad judgment as I ? and if they have, have they not a
right to use it ? My Lords, A value nobility ; but education 1
ennobles a man more than any thing else. Increasing in know-
ledge, and incrcsesitses ie affluence, is it not fitting that the'
rights of the people should be extended 2, Upon this subject 1
regret to, hooompelled to differ front Me Noble and Learned Lord
opposite, who has stated that no himself sprung, from the com-
mon class—a eireunestanee which does that Noble and Learned
Lord honour, ‘...4.1a as his character deservedly stands in the
country. 'Why, when the people have so greatly increased ha
wealth and knowledge, they shook, not have a greater share in
the representation, lam a.) a loss to conceive, One part of the
opposition to the 13j1}, if I may use an expression not very
courteous but tether strong, appesasa to me. to be humbug.—
(A laugh) I mean the alleged apprehension that the people of
the new
this country are disposed, to take a lea( out of the French. Con-
h bays.n
ds "fo
f our
Certain °l
Con-
stitution. lam sure. they are. too good to do so, They wish
Constitution. 'lles- want renovation not innovation. nee:
foject than some
the ls country constructed
gotiato,on
ttuhee
• Peers I do not pretend to say, but I say that they hs.ve no right
e 0 TO: bC4ss. stare,
et' htios b
Noble Lords, having: up,pretensions to borsugh property ; still,
to them. I certainly ha-se le interest in the st
however, I pasetcrpate in the odium wader which the Aristo_
cracy labeors, its that respect. Mos Lords, I was exceedingly
su.rPSiaed at the comparison tisisteh one Noble Lord made be-
tween the Peers of Vsaystand and the Nobility of the ancient
French regime, is is our duty as the Aristocracy of England,
to take ears that the rights of the people are not invaded,
and is the same time to guard the rights or the Crown.
If, unfortunately, the present Bill should not he carried, I trust
, that the people te1.1,1 see that there is much goodwill felt towards i
them, and that they will wait with patience until a similar I
, =mere, be. carried, which eventually it mast be. To your
Lordships I will observe, that if this Bill should sot Paw' some
a other Bill. roma som, pass, and it rnay be we of a lea favourabh
I nature, and brought forward under' Seas adretege°
th:ts
iricyirtvuontle-
stances. My Lord; I feel thoroughlrmt'
i this nights both as I am a Member of the Royal family, end as i
•
am a Peer of England, is of vital imP"tance. The Noble and
I have already observed I en.
, Learned Lord opposite (for whom
, and frosts whom I have received re
tertain the greatest resPeeisim
stated his apprehension that the
1 peated proofs of cotuted7)
tit tioand '
Bill would subvert the Cons u
of the revolution.
My Lords, that I deny, ISSne.pe Use princi-
I

je. .
~..: *. , _
..'-• 1i.4, ,1,7
• . - ~. ,-,,,;,., .21, ',. ' _
____ . .
,n whatever for introducing Reform to inhabitant householders ; but his Noble and Learned wduld not, - however; hazard such a Guvernmftt ,noi
le did not recollect that the Noble Frieud must well know that this was subject to qualifiea- the present time as this country was blessed with
pointed out the circumstances likely to tion, and that it was only where there was no title by for the purpose of accepting such a change.,
charter the commonidlawrigLlit representation was in the
tsure like the present. Every thing, there. asked what would be the consequence in Ireland.
inhabitant householders.—(Loud ers.--( owl cheers from the Opp-
be extent of the measure. The Noble Would the Church in that country stand.—(Cheers.)
A' pointing out the nature of this sili"*)
e, instead of spewing upon what The LORD CHANCELLOR —I have no objection to The Protestants there were but few, but their great
I
t.,..1.1.. ...en .born A. hnlanro nf nnunsr hulk en"..lA at..,...