The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-01 00:00:00

REFORM.

Lord ALTHORP, in rising to move that the House re-
solve itself into a Committee on the English Reform Bill,
observed that it was not the wish or intention of his Ma-
jesty's Ministers to proceed further to-day, than the clause
which was now under discussion. If the House got
through that clause previous to the time he stated last night,
he would then propose that the Chairman should ask
leave to report progress and sit again. There was, how-
ever one c Ise. He alluded to the borough of Totness, the
Member for which place could not attend t,-day, and he
(Lord Althorp) had no objection whatever to the case
of that place not being pressed on to-day. He trusted no
objection would be raised to the House now proceeding
with the consideration of this important subject, as it was
not the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to take any
unfair advantage.
The SPEAKER then put the question, " That I do now
leave the Chair," when
Sir GEO. MURRAY rose—lie said he had no intention
whatever to oppose the motion now before the House, or
offer any objection to the Speaker leaving the chair, but
under the peculiar circumstances of the attendance to-
day, he trusted the House would allow hint to make
a few observations. He confessed that he felt him-
self compelled to retails the same sentiments which
he expressed last night, namely those of regret that in
this instance there should have been a departure from a
clear understanding—(Hear, hear)—between gentlemen
entertaining opposite sentiments upon the great measure
now under discussion. It appeared to him that there
could not have been an occasion more unwisely selected
than the present for the departure from that arrangement.
—(Hear, hear.) It was true the departure might be made
in a manner which was supported by the public, and by
a majority of the House, but those were of themselves
strong circumstances why the House should decline to
make such a departure. Dangerous precedents might
be formed by it. He thought this had been pressed
by his Majesty's Ministers too far.—(Hear, hear,
heir.) And he wished therefore to enter his protest
against it.—(Hear, hear.) He entered that protest not
as a party man—(Hear)—but as a public one ; and a
Member of that House. He admitted that the proposal
the Noble Lord had made was a fair one, and
such as he never expected. Ile thought, therefore,
there was good ground for the objections taken last to
the course pursued.—(Hear.) He was well aware
that it was the duty of Members to attend when public
questions were under discussion, but he trusted agreeable
to the Noble Lord's proposal in the case of Totness,
that should the consideration of any other borough
similarly situated come before the House, the
Noble Lord would extend that indulgence to it which he
had done to Totness. The Hon. Member sat down,
stating that no opposition would be offered to the
consideration of the Bill being now proceeded with.
The Hon. Baronet said that of all occasion., this was one
upon which Members might be justified in offering oh_
statles—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition)—but he
and those who were with him, would not show such a
feeling, which might be liable to be much misrepre-
sented.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Those who opposed
the present Bill, had no private feelings or interests to
gratify, but they were apprehensive that too much preci-
pitancy was being used.—(Hear.) lie would not detain
the House any longer from going into the Committee, and
lie would offer no impediment to the Bill going on in the
usual course.
Sir F. BURDETT expressed his satisfaction at the feel-
ing, tone, and candour pursued by the Right Hon. Baronet,
—(Cheers)—and he might also undertake to say, that
it would meet with a corresponding feeling on his (Sir
F. Burdett's) side of the House.—(Hear.) For himself,
he never understood that any agreement had been
entered intn so as to make it incumbent on any party to
' pursue a different line of conduct from that which they
' had adopted.—(Hear, hear.) If there had been, he
should have felt shocked at any infringement of it. The
Honourable Baronet hoped that the same feeling
displayed by the Right Honourable Baronet would
govern the whole of their proceedings, and he AVOLI
ld
venture to esy, that if any fair case of exemp-
t tion or postponement could be made out like that of Tot-
nese, as pointed out by the Noble Lord (Althorp), it
would receive the most attentive consideration..--(Hear.)
_ Sir C. NVETHERELL had understood it was agreed

that four days in the week, from five o'clock each day,
should be occupied with this discussion, and he regretted
that in this instance that agreement had been departed
from.—(Hear. )
Mr. ATTWOOD °bac; yeti, that the Noble Lord (Al•
thorp) had said he would do nothing but what was per-
fectly fair, and he would take no advantage ; he wished,
if he could, to place every confidence in that statement,
and if he did not do so now, it was bee muse he believed the
Noble Lord was placed under such a pressure of
circumstances as prevented him seeing what was or was
not, either fair or an advantage. The Noble Lord knew
that, and he knew also what measure% had been taken to
secure a large attendance of Members on that side of the
House ; whereas no means had been taken to secure such
an attendance on his (Mr. Attwood's) side.—(Hear•)
The most urgent measures had been taken by Ministers to
urge the attendance of Members by a circular.—(Loud cries
of hear, and no.) He was satisfied the Noble Lord could
not think that the proceedings of to-day were marked by
that fairness which he took credit for. The Hon. Mem-
ber then read a copy of the circular, dated last evening,
and pressed upon Honourable Members the necessity
of their attending at a quarter before twelve o'clock
to• day.--(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposi-
tion.) This letter emanated from a party who kept the
House occupied last night with a trumpery and factious
discussion for several hours about the propriety of meeting
to-cloy, no doubt for the purpose of enabling Ministers to go
the King on Monday. The arrangement had originally
bean made to enter upon the Reform Rill for four days

and the present proceedings were entirely at va- '
riance with that arrangement.
Lord ALTHORP, in reference to the circulars, said
they were the usual ones, but he pledged himself that they
were not sent until after he had given the notice last
night; and be believed that no gentleman received
them until this morning. Undoubtedly after the House
broke up there was plenty of time for Hon. Gentlemen
to be prepared for the present meeting. But he would
ask whether there had been no general meeting of those
Members who opposed the Bill ?—(Cheers)—He did not
complain of that, it was quite fair, and enabled parties to
make the necessary arrangements. Now with respect to the
f.ng igement which be had been charged with breaking, be
begged to say that none whatever had been entered into,
fir he never considered himself to be tied down only to
four days a week.
Lord ALTHORP, in continuation, said, that he had
last night stated the peculiar circumstances under which
he was induced to make the proposition to the House, not
at all anticipating when he made it that it would have led
to the debate to which it did. He did net see why the
discussion could not go on fairly.
Mr. ATTWOOD rose amidst loud cries of " question,
and order." The note the Noble Lord alluded to could not
be the note to which he (Mr. A.) had referred, because
that note stated twelve o'clock.
Lord ALTHORP observed, if the Hon. Member would
only exercise his recollection, he would know that his
note stated twelve o'clock.
Mr. WYNNE felt himself called on to say a few
words. At the time the proposition which was now
broken was made by the Noble Lord, he objected to
it, on the ground that it would delay the other business
of the House. He considered the first thing that ought
to be done to put a stop to a truce was to inform the ad-
versary ; and he thought the very instant the circular
alluded to had been lithographed, information should have
been sent to the opposing party. 1e really believed the
circular did not originate with the Noble Lord, but certain
of his friends—( Hear)—aud that it was written before the
subject was brought forward last night.
Lord ALTHORP denied that such was the case and
stated, that notice was sent to the Chairman of every
Election Committee the very instant they were litho-
graphed, and he believed no Member received one bill this
morning.
Lord DORCHESTER stated that the purpose of the
dispute that took place this morning was to allay the irri-
tation which took place last night.
Mr. PERCEVAL observed that the Meeting was una-
nimous in deprecating the injustice and unfairness of
bringing forward this question to-day.
Mr. GEO. DAWSON considered that his Majesty's
Government had no right to complain of the conduct of
the Members on his side of the House, it was incumbent
upon them to exercise the small authority that belonged to
them, against the plain intention of Ministers to carry
this Bill per fas et ne fas.—(Loud cries of question.)
He protested most strongly against the course adopted by
Ministers.
Lord ALTHORP was in hopes, after the House had
got out of the disfranchising schedules into the franchising
ones, they would get on a little More smoothly.—(Hear.)
The SPEAKER the❑ put the motion—That the House
go into a Committee o❑ the Reform Bill.
The Marquis of CHANDOS rose to ask the Secretary
for Ireland, when it was his intention to bring the Irish
Arms Bill on far discussion ?
Mr. STANLEY would take the earliest . opportunity
possible for the discussion of that important measure, after
the discussions on the Ref°, in Bill were concluded.

Mr. HUM', amidst loud cries of " Question," rose to
repeat the question he the other day asked the First Lord
of the Admiralty, relative to the appointment of a captain
to one of the Dover packets.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he bad not yet seen the
Duke of Richmond, who had been out of town, but he
would take care to prepare himself to answer the question
of the Hon. Member by Tuesday next.
The order of the day was then read for the House going'
into Committee on the English Reform Bill, and Mr.
BKRIZAL took the Chair.
The CHAIRMAN then put the question that the bo-
rough of Malmesbury stand part of schedule B, when
Sir CHARLES FORBES rose, being one of the Mem-
bers for this borough. He could not allow the question
put from the Chair to pa•s without observation.
No Member of the House held a more unpledged
seat than he did, for he was under no pledge
whatever as to the course he should pursue with
respect to this Bill, and be should prefer sitting for
this borough to representing London or Middlesex.
An How. MEMEE it observed that the Hon. Baronet was
not in attendance at the last election, and some of the elec-
tors on being asked who they voted for, could not tell the
nsme of the Hon. Baronet.—(Laughter.)
Sir C. FORBES denied the statement that the voters
did not know for whom they voted. The voters of Mal-
mesbury were as free and independent as any in the king-
dom.