The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-22 00:00:00

sure of taxation upon the loceff:y where the paupers ex
isied. If this propositi m of his Nebas and Learned
Friend were to come into oprstien, they would have a
state of things here similar to that which existed in
Ireland.
Mr. BROTHERTON was suite ecrtain that if they
paid the poor-rates out of the Consolidated Fund, they
would find that there would be sti enormous increase in
the rates. At the same time, he was quiie ready to ad-
mit that there wits great inequality in the rates. In the
township in which he resided the rate was a shilling in
the pound, while in an adjoining township it was six
shillings.—(Hear, hear.) In 1834, when the new law
was brought forward, he stated it as his opinion that
they should have a uniform rate throughout all the
townships of a union, so that the guardians, mate ad of
looking to a particular township, would direct their at-
tention to the entire union. In Salford, out of twelve
thousand assessments, nine thousand were under ten
pounds a year, and the consequence was that the rates fell
heavily upon the poorer classes. While he was opposed
to the motion of the Noble Ler', he thought it would be
necessary to deal with the inequality of the rate, and to
extend the assessment over the whole of the union, in-
stead of limiting it, as at present, to a township.—(Hear.)
Mr. WODE dOUSE ag,resd in everything that had
been said as to the ability which had bsen di.played by
the late Commissioner, Mr. Charles Bul!er. He (01r.
Wodehoese) had placed a motion on the books, in
accordance with a recommendation which had been
given elsewhere, that the salaries and established
charges of the poor-law should be paid out of the
Consolidated Fund. The Honourable Member then
stated that he had been informed by the brother of the
Honourable Member for Cambridgeshire that a house
near Calais (Messrs. Laroche, Chevery, and Dawson)
had made proposals to supply a union in that county,
with a variety of necsssari• s—bread, biscuits, fl
brandy, beef, mutton, &e., at a cheaper rate then it was
possible for any English house to make the supply. He
would vote in favour of the Noble L n.dts motion, in the
belief that it was absolutely necessary to revise the
public burthens of the country.—(Hear.)
Mr. PETO said he could bear testimony to the neces-
sity of a change taking place in the operation of the
poor-law in the city of Norwich. The Hon. Member
stated several cases in which the present law op-rated
most severely in that city. Still he hoped that the Noble
Lord would not press his motion to a division, as he
doubted if, at the present advanced period of the ses-
sion, the appointment of a Committee could be attended
with any benefit, and he thought, besides, that enough
had been done by drawing attention to the subject.
Mr. ELLIS said he could also bear test= ,ny to the
inequality of the present mode of levying the poor-rate
in the city with which he was connected, the city of
Leicester. He was, however, opposed to the levying of
a national rate, and thought besides that the session was
too far advanced for the motion to be pressed with any
advantage.
Mr. ROBINSON etas quite inaudible in the few re-
marks he addressed to the House. The Hon. Member
was understood to be in favour of the motion.
Mr. BROWN said he was decidedly opposed to the
opinion which had been expressed, that the introduction
of free trade had been to increase the public distress.
An Hon. Member bad alluded to an instance in which
workers in glass had been thrown out of employment.
Now he (Mr. Brown) had, on the contrary, been in-
formed that the result of the free-trade measure had
been to increase the number of glass-cutters from twelve
hundred to three thousand.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. POULETT SCROPE, after referring to the pro-
ceedings of that Committee which had been appointed
on the subject before the H-use, said he was glad to
hear in the course of that discussion an admission of the
facts which had been brought be ore that Committee,
with regard to the inequality of rating throughout the
country. A very fraudulent attempt had been mide by
the landlords in some parishes to force the labourers in
their employment to reside in other parishes, to the
rates of which the landlords did not contribute.—(Hear,
hear.) Now, a fraud of that kind, he thong it, should
meet with every possible exposure.—(El 'Fir, hear.)
On general principles, he was of opinion that
they ought to extend the rate over a union, and
make it a union rate. The fact of their having taken
the management of the poor from the perishes, and
given it to the guardians, was an additional reason why
the rate should be thrown upon the whole union —(Hear,
hear.) He believed, if they did so, there would be no
need of a law of settlement, or of a law of removal, and
that the unions would be content to manage their own
poor. Ho thought that, year by year, they might gra-
dually approximate the rate, and that by so doing they
would satisfy the various parishes of a union. He was
also of opinion that the medical, and some other charges,
might fairly be thrown upon the Consolidated Fund.
Mr. CARDWELL thought that it was very likely the
motion would not be pressed to a division, for at that
late period of the session, when a Committee would find
it impossible to make a report, it was better not to come
to any decision. He was long and well acquainted with
his Hon. Friend now at the head of the Pour-law Com-
mission, and certainly expected much from him and for
the country; and he sincerely hoped he would turn his
attention to that important subject, which would be
much better than to allow it to go to a division. There
was one thing, however, to which he (Mr. Cardwell)
should beg leave to call the attention of the House. One
of the incidents of poor-law charges on various locali-
ties was the increase of the poor pepulation from Ire-
land, who came over in a most heartrending con-
dition to this country. Ha was not now speaking
of those who came over at their own charge to seek
employment, but ot' the absolutely destitute; and if there
was one place more than an :ther which suffered, it was
Liverpool, which he represented. In connexion with
this subject he moved for papers some time since, which
were now laid on the table of the House. By these it
appeared, that not less than '296.000 destitute, unhappy,
miserable emigrants from the sister country had, within
the last year, arrived in Liverpool. It was manieestly
no blame to them, nor did he allude to the subject in
any unkind or ungenerous spirit, but to show how it
affected particular parties with heavy local taxation,
which did not properly belong to them, and how that
created a feeling of injustice, which was desirable not to
increase. Out of the 300,000 persons who so termed,
120,000, or 10,000 a month, were totally destitute, the
conscouence of which was, that not only was the poor-
rate doubled, but a fearful loss of life ensued. Ten
Roman Catholic clergymen, one Protestant clergyman,
many parochial officers, and medical men had fallen vic-
tims.
The evils that this produced it is impossible to
describe. It is no blame to them, for they cannot help
it, in consequence of the fearful calamity which befell the
sister country. The consequence however is. that they
must either become one of three things—they must be
either paupers, thieves, or vagrants. They bad, how-
ever, discovered that they can be sent back, and are,
therefore, become either vagrants or thieves. Now, he
did not wish to stigmatise or calumniate the Irish
character, for it would be manifestly unjust to
do so; nor did he mean to give any personal offence to
gentlemen from Ireland, but by the criminal returns it
appeared that whereas, in 1846, 18 000 persons were
committed in Liverpool by the magistrates, it increased in
1848 to 22,000; and Ihe summary convictions, wich in
1845 were 3.800, in 1848 became 7.700. or double the
number. The gaol built to contain 500 prisoners now
held 1,100; and the evil was increased in other respects
to such a d. gree, that the industrious classes cannot pro-
cure employment in consequence of the great competition
in the labour market. The Right Hon. Gentle. an op•
posite, the President of the Board, sent Captain Denham
to inquire into the subject, whose report was now before
the Reuse. A more sorrowful di cument Wes never laid
on the table. lie would not trouble the House of Com-
mons, acquainted as all were with the horrible fatality
which occurred on board the Londeneierry steamer; but
one captain says that 300 are often on deck during a
passage, which sometimes lusts for twenty-Four hours;
that there was space below for the accommodation of
about 100, but none on (leek except for cattle. Captain
Denham says that the deck space allowed was a square
yard to two persons, and that the whole deck on the ar•
rival of one of these steamers was crowded with passen-
gars, filled with animal mire, and otherwise in the most
frightful and horrible condition. He states that in
a rough voyage of twenty-eight hours, from Dublin, a
space on deck was set apart for 400 people, which was
only 28 feet by 13; that these unfortunate creatures
were throwp among the cattle, when they sought
for a little animal heat; and altogether, as another
commander states, the scene would make the
stoutest heart ache. But if that occurred in
paddle-steamers, it was still worse in those propelled
by screw, where they were exposed on the one hand to
the washing of the sea, and on the other to all the filth
and wretchedness of the cattle among which they were
thrown. In cases, he believed, of women taken in la-
bour, they may be an exception, but deaths frequently
occurred, and police constables say they even saw per-
sons absolutely frozen to death, from the inclemency of
a night, ou the deck of these steamers. The Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite promised that the law should put
down the practice of crowding vessels; and he would say
the House must be prepared to deal with the whole sub.
jest, or they could not leave 10.000 persons a month
landed at a single port totally destitute. That was a
:state of facts which those who represented large con-
stituencies were cognizant of; and having thus called
:attention to it he should leave the matter to the consi-
deration of his Hon. Friend and the Government. He
hoped, therefore, that a remedy would be provided before
they met again against this most terrible evil.
Mr. LABOUCHERE observed that in consequence
of the representations made to him, be did send Cap-
tain Denham to Liverpool, and he tock that course, not
with the desire of limiting the transmission of paupers
-from Ireland, for if it were to be checked it ought not
'to be by raising the price of the passage. He held that
the poor men who came, not as paupers, but to work,
had a perfect right to come over ns cheap as they could,
and, therefore, in this instructions to Captain Denham,
he directed him to confine himself to the manner in
which they were treated on board, and he did think that
a case was made out for the interference of the Govern-
ment. He thought, however, that it was most important
that the checks about to be made should not be cheeks to
the emigration of the Irish emigrants. He should be
sorry to put any check whatever on their coming over •
but for the sake of their common humanity it was ab:
solutely necessary they should interfere to prevent the
improper crowding of persons on board steamers coming
from the Irish ports. In the spirit of the report made
he fully concurred, and promised that the attention of
the Board of Trade should be directed to the subject.
Mr. SPOONER suggested to the Noble L,)rd the pro-
priety of withdrawing his motion, for although he should
be obliged, if it went to a division, to vote against it,
yet he must do so with great reluctance.
Mr. SLANEY believed the important subject then
under consideration was about being brought to a close,
and he would not discuss it, therefore, at any greater
length. The case made by the Chief Commissioner was
no doubt most ably stated, but no man yet staid any-
thing elistut the burdese' eieeUnll
the fact that while the upper and middle classes were
improving in wealth, the working classes were retro-
grading. Ile should therefore ask the Nouse at a fu-

tore day why that was so—why it was that the working
classes were not only not advancieg but rearegradieg
into misery and destitution. The Hon. Gi ntlemen who
seconded the motion did so b.-cause the poor-rate; were
so uneven, but as Chairman of a Committee which set
in 1830, he was in a positioe to say that the manage-
ment of the unions, by the guardians and others, was
the comecrience of all the evils which then existed.
Why should a man who drained hie estate, and gave
employment to the people, by which he made his pro-
perty worth 20s. an acre, be placed on the sane level is
to rating, and often rated higher, thin the men who did
not employ any persons whatever, and whose land was
only 103.? In his opinion the reason for the increase of
the peor-rafes aro-e teem it want of employment.
Colonel DUNNE test happy that the present motion
was brought on by his Noble Friend, for he was elad to
see the p tor law &hate•d on Reg ish ground. He did
say that this discussion would recs.l to English Members
that that which was unjust in England was unjust in
Ireland. With reference to the landing of Irish paupers
in Liverpool, he might observe, that although they
might have suffered some inconvenience from that, yet
that the town had ga,,ned immensely by the Irish trade,
whicn was more than a compensation for the temporary
inconvenience alluded to.—(Haar.)
Lord sUG E I' said. th atter what had passed he
would not endeavour to force the sense of the House, but
being content with ,he opinions elicited, he would with-
draw his motion.—(Hear, hear.)
The motion wAs consequently withdrawn.
NATIONAL EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
Mr. HAMILTON brought forward the motion of
which he had given notice, Sre an address to her Majesty,
praving that she will be graciously pleased to direct that
such a modification of the system of national education
in Ireland may be made as may remove the conscientious
objections which a large proportion of the clergy and
laity of the Established Church entertain to that sy,tem
as at present carried into operation; or otherwise, that
means may be taken to enable those of the clerey and
laity of the Established Church, who entertained such
conscientious objections, to extend the blessings of scrip
rural education in Ireland. He said in bringing forward
the important subject of education in connexion with
the Church in Ireland, it would not be necessary for
him to aike up the time of the Howe at any length. He
had little more to do than reiterate seme, of the argu-
ments he had used last year. He then endeavoured to
show that every denomination of Christians in this coun-
try were agreed in this, that no system of education
should be tolerated which was not based upon religion.
Experience had now taught them that they should leave
to every denomination the care of the religious instruc-
tion of the children of its own members, and leave to the
State to deal with secular education. In Ireland a sys-
tem had obtained repugnant to the principles of the Re-
formation, and to the sense of duty entertained by the
clergy. The rule was, that the Bible should be placed
upon the same tooting as other books. Now, could Pro-
t-stem laymen or clergymen of the Established Church,
or of any Protestant Dissenting congregation, consent
that the use of the Bible should be dependant upon
the caprice or will of the parents or guardians who
happened to attend. Such a principle could no be sanc-
tioned by Protestants. And there was high authority
to justify the scruples entertained by the clergy in Ire-
land upon this subject. The Bishop of London had
lately admitted, that if he were in Ireland he should
feel compelled to act as the clergy acted there. There
was another objection, namely, that the system tended
to secularize education. It would end ultimately in the
inculcation of merely secular knowledge, which was
considered equally objectionable both by Protestants
and Roman Catholics. The latter acted in this country
in reference to this subject as the Protestant clergy did
in Ireland. The Hen. Memter here read some extracts
from addresses by ecclesiastical authorities of the Ro-
man Catholics in this country, showing the jealousy
with which they regarded all attempts to secular ze edu-
cation. That feeling was also stronoy entertained by
the Established Chinch in Ireland, who in consequence
of their conscientious scruples on this subject were de-
prived
of all aid from the national sy stem of education.
Was that fair, or just?—(Cheers.) He would forbear
goine into details of the managemetit, his object being to
place the principle he'ore the House for its judgment.
lie hoped Government would take the matter into their
consideration with a view to its settlentent.—(Hear.)
The clergy of the Established Church in Ireland should
have the power of forming such rules in their schools as
would satisfy their own scruples, and enable them to
participate in a benefit which was freely enjoyed by
other classes. They did not wish to impose their own
opinions upon others; but that consideration which they
extended to them they claimed for themselves. It had
been stated that the National Society of Ireland was de-
servinu of support, because the system was the same in
principle as in the university of which he was the re-
presentative. He denied that there was any analogy
in the two cases. It was manifest that the children of
the poor, if they went to schosl very young, must obtain
their religious education from the teachers in there
schools. But, though Reman Catholics were nut com-
pelled to attend chapel in the University, yet the dec.
trines of the New Testament formed a large pro-
portion of the examination of each student.—
(Hear, hear.) He had presented that clay a petition,
signed by 64,000 of her Majesty's subjects. He had also
presented a pstitien signed by 1,587 clergymen of the
Established Church, setting forth their conscientious
objections to the system of education in Ireland, and
pra)ing for the same liberty as was given to al other
den tenina'ions.—(Hear, hear) lie thought it would be
straege, indeed, if such petitions from the !sit) and
clergy were disregarded and refused by those who set
themselves up as the great advocates of civil and religi-
ous liberty.—(Hear, hear.) He th iught that the Pro-
testants in Ireland had a lair claim to ask that the great
principles of the Reformation should be muintaine d in
their case.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member concluded
by moving the reselotion.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that the only objection
he should take to the tone of the Hon. Member's speech,
was his statement that he represented the Protestants
of Ireland. He denied that he represented the ma-
jority of Protestants of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) When
he said that, the Hon. Membes forgot that those
Protestants who took a different view from him
were equally sincere in their views and convic-
tions as the Hon. Member and his friends. The great
objection he had to the motion was that it would
abolish the present system of national education in Ire-
land, and if so they would have to ask for a grant for
educating Roman Catholics specially—(Hear, hear)—
and for his own part he did not know on what grounds
such a grant could be asked.—(Hear, hear.) Believing
as he did that the motion of his Hon. Friend was op-
posed to the best interests of Ireland he hoped the House
would not agree to it. The question was one not only
of great importance but great difficulty. Witness the
numerous commissions that had been formed to inquire
into the subject previous to 1832, when Lord Stanley
took the subject up. A national system of education,
to be national at all, should be RS comprehensive as pos-
sible—(Hear, course taking care to prevent
abuses. He believed that the system of eduction in
Ireland, which had now been in existence for 16 years,
had gained ground during the whole of that period, and
had gained the approbation of every religious denomi-
nation.—(Hear, hear.) It was a system free to all, and
imposed disabilities upon rione.—(H, ar.) Taking the
explanation of the Hen. Member as to the system in the
University, be could not see in what respect it differed
in principle from the system of national education
applied to the junior members of the Univer-icy.
Title Hon. Member had appealed to the Roman Catholic
Members of that House to support him, but he believed
that the feelings of the Roman Catholic population had
entirely changed on that question. The Right lion.
Gentleman proceeded to quote from Plowden's History
a petition presented by Mr. Grattan in 1792, to show
that it had not always been a principle of the Roman
Catholic Church to oppose a mixed education,. on the
contrary, in that petition from the Roman Catholics of
Ireland, not of any particular part of it, the benefits of
the intercourse which must arise from such a system
were distinctly set forth with reference to the University
of Dublin.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member had assumed
that the majority of the Protestants of Ireland were op-
posed to it, and said he could not understand how any
clergyman could, in accordance with his ordination vows,
give it his support. He believed that at least five hundred
cl rgymen were in its favours a large majority of the
Protestant laity were of the same (pinion; and, taking
the fact that they had a majority of Protestants, as will
as a majority of Roman Catholics in its favour, he
thought they were fully entitled to say that it was really
a national system.—(Hear, hear.) In the midst of much
obloquy and opposition the system had gradually and
steadily extended itself, and even as compared with
last year, there was a considerable increase of schools
and scholars. The increase on the year was 104,833
scholars, and the total number in the schools was
507,417.—(11ear, hear.) He thought that in the midst
of the distress, suffering, and difficulties of Ireland, the
tact that they had now upwards of 500,000 children in
their schools was one of the most consolatory nature con-
nected with that country, and gave hopes of a better fu-
ture. He felt that the country were under a deep debt
of gratitude to Lord Stanley and the Government by
whom the system was institived, and he would add they
also owed gratitude to Dr. Whatelev, the Archbishop of
Dublin, and to Mr. Blake—whose death he lamented—
tor their efforts to establish this system.—(Hear, hear.)
lie believed the increase of schools and scholars in con-
nexion with instruction in improved agriculture was the
best guarantee of permanent future progress in Ireland,
and while he regretted that his Hon. Friend should have
felt it to be his duty to re-open this question, he confi-
dently called upon the House to reject his motion, and
support a system which had been proved to be so bene-
ficial.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord BERNARD wished to warn the House against
b ing deluded by the deceptive reports of the Educa-
tional Board with respect to the feeling of the people of
Ireland on the subject. He could assure them that the
feeling against it was as strong as ever, and the petition
that had been presented that day from 91,000 friends of
Roman Catholic families was a proof of it. In fact ho
could state positively that the system was an utter
failure. He denied that the clergy of the Established
Church were in its favour. Jle held in his hand a curious
historical document, as to the comparative position of
the National Schools and the Church Society Schools,
in the county of Cork. The increase -in the number of
Nationals Schools had been 16; in those of the Scrip-
tural Schools, 19. In the number of scholars there had
been a decrease of 12,339 in the National Schools, and
expense
nincrease of 5,835 in the Church Society Schools. The
per head, in the National Schools, was 151. 10s.,
while in the Church Schools it was only 31.103. In that
year (1847) there had been altogether a decrease of
55,7F8 scholars in the National Schools, and an increase
of 20,000 in the Church Schools. So that when the lion.
Gentleman spoke
,of the increase in and extension of the
National schools, notwithstanding the deep distress
which existed in Ireland, he was giving the Howe an
tot iv ot use. With regard tit the model
school, and the agricultural school, how could it be said
that the rules of these could not be laid on the table
until next year? He believed tbm a system of national

education would revive work in Ireland. It was to the
clergy they had to look for the right support of the educa-
tion of Ireland, and these had done their duty notwith-
standing that many of them had been excluded from
benefices b-ceuse they would not support this mon-
strous system of national education. That, certainly,
was a mo.t ungeni-rous, and unjust act, but it was the
feet, as had been admitted. The system, however, would
nut stand; and until they introduced into Ireland a sys-
tem of education founded on the Scriptures, that
country would never be prosperous, turbulence and dis-
trust would still prevail in it, and the scenes of last year
would he of frequent occurrence.—(Hear.)
Me. 'MOORE said, lie believed that there were many
of the clergy of Ireland who were opposed to the present
system of education; but they conceived it better than
no system at all, and therefore they accepted it. They
believed that education ought to be based on religion,
and that a system of education without religion was
little better than no education at all, while, on the other
hand, they conceived that even such a system was pre-
ferable to a system based on a false religion.—(Hear.)
But while there was no doubt that a large body of the
people of Ireland saw much to find fault with
in the present system, he regretted that the reso-
lution should express that the system only was objection-
able to one class for whose education so much provision
had been mode---(Hear, hear.) He confessed that in a
resolution so sectarian he could not agree. To the first
portion of the resolution he did not see much to object,
hut to the second, " That measures might be taken to
enable the clergy and laity of the Established Church
to extend tte blessings of Scriptural education," he
most decidedly objected. It was the case that 800,000/,
given for the purposes of education to that party, had
been by them converted into another channel; and was
it right that they should now come to that House and
ask tor additional funds to carry on their system? To
any such proposition he was most decidedly opposed.
Sir AR rHUR BROOKE supported the motion, and re-
ferred to the state of education as it existed in Ulster,
which was on the system of the Church Education So-
ciety. He stated, when the subject was last before the
House, that there were in Ulster, in proportion to the
population, one million of the people educated more
than there was in Connaught, which was under the
national system. So that there could be no doubt of the
failure of the national system.
Mr. NEWDEGATE also supported the resolution.
In doing so he was asking no more than was granted to
the Roman Catholics, namely,liberty to educate the rising
generation in the mode they considered best; and when
he saw that the application to that House was backed
by 1,587 of the clergymen, and 64,000 of the laity of
the Established Church in Ireland, he, thought it was
deserving of consideration. It was not true that the
Roman Catholic clergy were favourable to a system of
national education, for when Government proposed to
erect schools and colleges for the education of those of
that faith, they bad been denounced and condemned by
the great majority of the Roman Catholic clergy. It
was said that why ought not the system which suited the
Presbyterians also suit the members of the Church of
England; but while the Presbyterian system was per-
haps more democratic than was the Church of England
system, yet he thought they had seen enough to cause
them to pause before they gave much encouragement or
extension to that principle. He considered that all educa-
tion ought to be based on the Scriptures, and for that
reason he opposed the present national system of educa-
tion in Ireland.
Lord CLAUD HAMILTON said there was nothing
which fell from the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secre-
tary for Ireland from which it could be gathered on
what principle the national system of education was es-
tablished. He thought the House would be astonished
that two thirds of the schools under the National Board
were not bound by the authority of that Board. Two •
thirds of them were what was called non-invested schools.
rhey were not under the cognizance of the Educational
Board; and therefore it was not true that the system
was a united one. It was also said that the Presbyte-
rian clergymen were in favour of the national system,
but if they were so it was; because they were made to
believe it was a united system. Thera were, however,
423 schools under the superintendence of Presbyterian
clergymen, but only 28 of these were vested or were
under the control of the Educational Beard. There were,
therefore, 28 Presbyterian ministers patrons of vested
schools, and 393 of non-invested; so that Presbyterian mi-
nisters countenancing this system, and opposing it,were as
14 to 1; and the fact was, while the Presbyterian body
took advantage of the system, they did not yield one
iota ot their principles. The Presbyterian body had
accepted of a portion of a grant, but retained to them-
selves the povt er to give what education they considered
right.—(Hear, hear.) As to the clergymen of the
Established Church, there was a large number who re-
fused their adhesion to the system, while many of those
had been kept from preferment in consequence. The
real grounds on which he disapproved of the actions of
the National Board were, that while he thought the
trait tug schools most useful, yet he could not help feel-
ing that the Board did not carry out the instructions of
the Government. Notwithstanding all the earnest re-
comm, ndtrions given to that Board, they were not car-
ried out. He could state to the House that more than a
quarter of the whole schools rejected a number of
extracts from the Scriptures which had been recom-
mended, and not, only that, but they would not ;How the
Scriptures themselves to be admitted within their
walls. He found that Lord Clarendon, when he
visited one of these training schools, said that
were he aware that the Scriptures were not used
in those national schools, he would be one of the
firmest and most uncompromising opponents of the sys-
tem. Had the Noble Lord, when he sp ke in that
manner, been aware that in so large a number of them
the Scriptures were not allowed, he certainly would not
have spoke as he did, and how could any one approve of
a system which was subject to such management? Those
Scripture extracts were recommended as class-books;
hut when he found that not only these, but the Scriptures
likewise, were excluded, how could they give credit to
the assertion, that the system was founded on religious
truth?—(flear, hear.) He was totally at a loss to know
how religious education could be furthered in Ireland,
when a strict prohibition was directed against the use of
the Holy Scriptures in the national schools, and consi-
dered that such a system was opposed to religion, and
the beneficial influence of morality on society.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that on hearing the
objection of the Noble Lord (Lord Claud Hamilton),
he should say that the advancement of religion and mo-
rality was ardently promoted in the national schools, and
he did not think that it would be judicious to put an end
to a system that had so well succeeded since 1831,
through which 500,000 children had been religiously and
morally educated. fie did not say that the best system
of education was carried on in these schools, but he
thought that the House should consider that Lord Stan-
ley, who had been the originator of the system, had, in
conjunction with many others, highly approved of the
advancement of education in Ireland. He did not mean
to interfere with the conscientious feelings of Roman Ca-
tholics in preventing their children from reading the
Bible, because that was a matter appertaining to their
creed, but he should say that there was no objection
raised against the extracts from that sacred work, which
were used in all those scho•ds. He regretted to say that
the Noble Lord (Lard C. Hamilton) was under an erro-
neous impression, when he stated that the Board of Edu-
cation did not comply with the regulations • for th© rules
are, that before eleven o'clock religious education shall
be given to the children according to their respective
faith, but that the remaining portion of the day shall be
devoted to secular instruction. The Noble Lord (Lord
C. Hamilton) also stated that the extracts from the Bible
were not read; but he should say that in 2,800 of those
schools these extracts were generally read, and the rea-
son of the refusal of the other schools to read those ex-
tracts was, that they did not consider them to be a good
version, and therefore these were allowed to partake of
secular instruction apart from those Scriptural extracts.
Yet from this it could not be argued that no religious
education was carried on in those schools. He also con-
sidered that the property of the Protestant Church was
sufficient to educate the children of that profession in
Ireland, and that it would be contrary to the principles
of justice and economy to allow a grant when such a
great income was at its disposal. He recollected that a
Protestant Bishop of the last century was attacked be-
cause he disseminated a work among the people, but his
reply was that he wished to make them, if not good Pro-
testants, good Catholics, or anything good.
Mr. NAPIER said that he did not mean to make any
allusion to Roman Catholics, but he should say that he
felt astonished that the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell)
had expressed such an 4nion as that the clergy of Ire-
land had sufficient means to educate the children of their
profession; men, many of whom have only 70/. per year.
He considered that the question had been altogether
avoided by the Noble Lord, because it was evident to all
that the object of the motion was to allow a portion of
the grant for the education of the Protestant children of
Ireland. He did say that there was an exclusion of the
Scriptures, and th it their case was, therefore, but a sine-
olicsfo.
Mr. REYNOLDS, who was received on rising with
for Protestants what
tphleeyonhea,dadskoinnegfotrhßemomoannl
cries of " Divide," from all parts of the House, said that
the question which ought to be kept in view was simply
only
to
Catholics.
whether what bad been done for the Roman Catholics of
Ireland was a grievance to the Protestant population. It
was proposed that the Protestant Church of Ireland
should be made richer by a grant, but that in itself would
be a grievance to the whole community of Ireland; and he
hoped that in all future questions respecting national edu-
cation in Ireland, financial reform associations would ap-
ply themselves to consider whether the money for that
purposes ought not to be drawn from the resources of
the Established Protestant Church of Ireland. He
must take that opportunity of rebutting the charge
of ignorance brought against the province of Con.
naught by the Honourable Member for Fermanagh.
—(Cries of " Oh, oh," and " Divide, divide.") lie
would remind the Hon. Member that the province of
Ulster exceeded in population that of Connaught by
nearly a million. It was the Protestant Church of Ire-
land which required investigation, and he hoped that
early in the next month his Hon. Friend the Member
for Middlesex would be permitted by the Hon. Member
for Montrose, on his own motion, to introduce a motion
for the purpose of instituting the necessary inquiry.—
(Cries of " Divide.")
The Hon. Gentleman finding himself interrupted,
moved the adjournment of the debate; but on the sugges-
tion of Lord John Russell and Mr. Disraeli, the latter
of whom assured him that every sentence he had
uttered had been listened to, resumed, and shortly af-
terwards concluded his speech.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion ... 102
Against it ... 162
Majority against it ...-60
Sir G. GREY suggested to Mr. Wyld that it would
be well to delay, until to morrow (this day), his motion
relative to coal mine accidents, when he would be able to
lay on the tale sum • printed papers on the subject.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL obtained leave to
bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to judgments
In Ireland.

Captain PECHE LL intimated his intention of opposing
Mr. Hayter's Bill to authorise the sale of the Royal Pa-
vilion and grounds at Brighton.
The Small Debts Curt (Scotland) Bill passed through
Committee, as also did the Soap Dzies Allowances Bill,
the Joint-Stock Companies' Act (1848) Amendment Bill,
pro forma, the Solicitor-General proposing to introduce
some new provisions; as elan in the Railway Abandon-
ment Bill, which was committed, pro forma, fur the
same purpose.
Oa the motion that the Marriage (Scotland) Bill be
committed, a discussion ensued, in which several Hon.
Members expressed their determination to oppose the
Bill, should it be pressed to Committee at that late hour
of the night,
The LORD ADVOCATE felt it to be him duty to go
on with the Bill, discussion on which might be taken on
the third reading.
Mr. FORBES was opposed to the Bill, and moved that
the Chairman report progress.
The gallery was cleared for a division, when there
ap-
peared—
For the motion ••• ••• •'• 24
Against it ... ••• 59„,
Nlajority against ••• •••
The Bill then passed through Committee.
The Assaults (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The Life Policies of Assurance Bill was committed.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at a Quarter-past Two o'clock.

THE SCOTTISH SOCIETY OF

LONDON.
The great success which attended the fete of this so-
ciety on Wednesday was continued and brought to its
climax by the proceedings of yesterday. Nothing could
be more satisfactory, nut only to the feelings of Scotch-
men, but of all who are interested in the cause of healthy
public amusements. Not only were the whole arrange•
ments of the fete conducted with the most perfect order,
but there was a spirit of goodwill and alacrity shoe n
throughout, which redounds greatly to the credit of all
who were present. The jealousies of country and race
seemed on this occasion at least to have been completely
laid aside, and one common sentiment of good fellowship
and sociality appeared to prevail. The stands were
densely crowd, d with a highly fashionable assemblage of
spectators, and the whole space beyond the enclosure re-
served for the celebration of the games was filled with
visitors. The general character of the scene was as
nearly as possible that which was presented on the pre-
vious day, and of which yesterday's impression conveyed
a description; but the effect was greatly heightened
by the increased numbers present, by the éclat
which always attends a meeting honoured by the
patronage and the presence of royalty, and last,
but not least, by the unexpected, yet welcome, appear-
ance of his Grace the Duke of Wellington in the grounds
of Hollank-park. During the early part of the day
some doubts were expressed whether her Majesty would
condescend to be present; but all fear on that subject
was removed by the knowledge, which soon spread
abroad, that arrangements had been made for giving her
a suitable reception, and that she would arrive shortly
before four o'clock. As might have been expected, an
announcement of the kind sent the prevailing excitement
up to boiling point. Hundreds of fresh visitors poured
upon the grounds, and before the time when the Royal
party were expected to appear there could not have been
less than from 7,000 to 8,000 people present. The pro-
gramme previously drawn out was slightly altered, so as
to afford her Majesty an opportunity of witnessing the
games which were most likely to attract her attention;
and preparations were made for rendering her recep-
tion as striking as possible. On a raised platform in
front of the Grand Stand were placed the pipers
entered as competitors. The way thence to the entrance
of the ground was heed with Highlanders. The large
body of archers waited outside to receive her Majesty
and escort her to the enclosed space ; and the noble-
men and chiefs present occupied the position where they
could most appropriately and effectively welcome the
Royal party. Just as these arrangements had been
completed, a signal was given that the illustrious visitors
whose presence was expected had arrived, and the vast
assemblage, rising spontaneously, prepared to give them
a loyal and right hearty welcome. Their expectations,
however, were disappointed. It was not her Majesty,
but the Duke of Wellington, who walked up between the
double line of Highlanders, and who, it is almost unne-
cessary to say, was received with every sign of enthu-
siasm. In the stands the ladies waved their handker-
chiefs, and, below, the gentlemen cheered lustily.
The military bands struck up the accustomed " See
the Conquering Hero comes," and his Grace ap-
peared greatly delighted at the spectacle before
him, and the hearty enthusiasm with which he was
welcomed. As if from habit, he paced along close
to the kilted Highlanders who guarded the approach,
seemingly inspecting them as he went, and touching his
hat in his own peculiar manner at each fresh outbreak of
applause. As the excitement which attended his Grace's
arrival was beginning to subside, the outriders of the
royal cortige, in their scarlet liveries, appeared upon the
ground, and immediately afterwards her Majesty drove,
in au open carriage, right into the centre of the space
enclosed for the games. The carriage, which was also
cccupied by his Royal Highness Prince Albert and three
of the Royal children, drew up immediately in front of
the grand stand, and there, after sufficient time had burn
allowed for the expression of a loyal welcome, the horses
were unharnessed, and the games proceeded.
These details have been given out of the order in
which the proceedings of the, day ran, because they fur-
nish the best material for supplying an accurate idea of
the great success with which yesterday the fete of
the society was crowned. The performances of the
competitors yesterday, circumscribed as they had
been in numbers by the results of the previous day,
were naturally looked forward to with great interest.
The best men were pitted against each other iu each
class, and the spirit of emulation in each was con-
centrated by the knowledge that he had an antagonist
whom it would require his greatest efforts to overcome.
As on the previous day the preceedings commenced with
archery, varied and enlivened by the performance of the
military bands and the pipers in attendance. This was
succeeded by a match not included in the programme,
but got up by the judges for the throwing of the light
hammer. This hammer ought to have been 161 b.
weight, but wasein fact, considerably heavier, yet it was
thrown a distance of 90 feet 5 inches by Sandy APHardY,
who won the first prize, and of 90 feet, 2 inches by Colin
Macdonald, Cranachan, who won the second. It is pro
bable that next year greater attention will be paid then
was to be expected on the present occasion to the rules
upon which this beautiful and highly-striking game
ought to be conducted. Mr. Fox Maule suggested that
the whirl round, now generally adopted by players,
should be done away with; and certainly the great grace
and precision with which one competitor, named John
Cameron, threw the hammer, appears fully to sustain
the value of this suggestion. There is also another ob-
jection to which the practice observed yesterday is open;
the thrower of the hammer, while required not to over-
step a certain line, was not limited so strictly as he
should have been as to the point of the line from
which he threw, nor as to the direction in which he
sent the hammer. The consequence was, that throws
made from the extremity of the log, behind which each
player stood, and which took a down-hill direction, had
an undue advantage over throws from the centre f the
log, which went straight forward. These observations
are not made in an invidious spirit, and are merely in-
tended for the introduction of better rules into this ad-
mirable game.
Dancing and pipe music succeeded the hammer, and
gave the greatest delight to the body of the spectators
present. The Terpsichorean art in the Highlands is a
very different thing from what fashion has recognised in
England. The reel is a wild and striking performance
—full of animation, of rapid movement, of violent
though not ungraceful exercise, in which the hands, the
fingers, and the voice take part equally with the feet.
There is something very characteristic of the people in
these national dances, of their enthusiasm, and of the
energy with which they embark in any cause which has
once engaged their affections. The dancing was of a
very superior kind yesterday, the best performers only
appearing, and the applause of the spectators encourag-
ing them to put forth their best efforts.
The next game was the final contention in the putting
of a stone, 21 lb. weight. Prizes were awarded as
follow:-
1. Alexander M'Hardy ... 34 feet 5 inches.
2. Thomas Menzies ... 33 feet 10 inches.
Both successful competitors distinguished themselves
greatly in this game, and the great distance to which
they put the stone, and the clean, admirable manner in
which it was put, excited general praise.
At this point in the proceedings the president and
vice-president of the society, the judges, and other noble
and influential persons present, began to make the ar-
rangements for her Majesty's reception, to which by
anticipation we have already alluded. The interval of
time thus left was very agreeably passed in witnessing
the performances of the boys of the Caledonian Asylum
in dancing reels and playing bagpipes. One little fellow
created no small amusement in this last department,
being in such a state of excitement at the competition to
which he was exposed that his tiny fingers often missed,
or imperfectly covered, the holes of the chanter, and
sounds laughably void of melody were the result. There
is one consolation remaining for this juvenile piper, that
if he lives he may have many years of practice, and yet
play well before he is a man. The instrument which he
blew was quite as large as himself, though, thanks to
the diet of the Caledonian Hospital, not made of such
solid materials.
After the arrival of her Majesty the proceedings were
re-opened with dancing, in which those who won the
prizes took part, and with which her Majesty, Prince
Albert, and the Royal children seemed to be highly de-
lighted. This was succeeded by the final contention for
prizespi
who
at
nlg.
ofconi
Colin
ttnhhe
eex
acMacdonald,
dnpreviousotenthrowingsat;dd
aa, of
ycf
keen
weretr haen Cranachan
heavyegt
lehsedaoemnf
formes
euet
etr
dh3. Ti
inches.
.pheuheircep menrsye
mustered in the centre of the enclosed space, and, strip-
at last declared for the following competitors:—
2. Sandy Mac Hardy 80 feet 1 inch.
At the close of this game broad sword playing and
stick practice commenced, and was carried on with the
same spirit and skill as on the previous day. The men
who had already distinguished themselves most were
pitted against each other, and the company were highly
delighted with the result. Mr. R. R. M'lan and Mr.
Rowland, both in the Highland dress, and with naked
broadswords in their hands, acted as judges; yet so
rapid were the movements of the players, that even
their practised eyes were sometimes at fault as to
whether there had been a hit or no. Besides the
sword play and stick practice, an interesting exhibition
of strength was made by Professor Bushman, who, with
a sweep of his sword, cleft in two an immense thick bar
of lead, and by a different, though not less expert use
of his weapon. cut right through a thin handkerchief
resting upon its edge. The prizes in this department
were awarded as follows:-
1. Corporal-Major Milling, of the Blues.

2. Corporal Sutton, let Life Guards.
3. Mr. G. Platts (a civilian).
After the sword playing, came the " tossing of the
caber," a game peculiar to the, Highlands, requiring re-
markable strength and great ectivity, and possessing as
much as any other included. in the programme of the
society those striking and picturesque characteristics
which supply the principal charm of out-door sports and
pastimes. The caber is formed from the trunk of a larch
or fir tree, the branches being lopped off, and the size
reduced so as to enable a man by resting it on his shoul-
der, and raising the thin end, with his hands from the
ground, until he is almost in an erect position, suddenly
to toss the long mass of timlaer into the air in such a
manner that the heavy end, previously aloft, descends,
while the thin end rising u p describes as it were a so-
mersault. There were no 11 se than three cabers is the
field yesterday, the first two of which were easily tossed
by nearly all the men who tr ied them. The third proved
too much for any of the competitors; but the judges,
guided by the merits of the different attempts to toss it,
decided in favour of the folt owing names :-
1. John Cameron. 2. Samuel Kennedy.
(This is a different mode of deciding from what is
practised in the north of s,;otland, and, upon the whole,
it seems not to be so good a. one.) There only one caber
is used, and it is reduced in size on the spot until the
best man tosses it.

Two foot races were run d mine.' her Majesty's stay on
the grounds, one by the bare .1 .43gged Highlanders, in which
Colin Macdonald, Cranacha a, was the winner; the other
made up from the boys of the Caledonian Asylum, and
which, from the number of tr,mbies and the keen struggles
of the little fellows for supe drafty, excited a lively in-
terest. Her Majesty rem aired more than two hours
upon the ground, and her d eparture took place amidst
manifestations of affection and loyalty still more en-
thusiastic and striking than 'those which greeted her ar-
rival. Indeed this was the only point in the proceed-
ings when the order, previot isly observed so completely,
was interrupted. The specta tors confined beyond the in-
closed space burst in on all sides, and surrounding her
Majesty's escort to the ent,iince of the park, repeated
cheer atter cheer with deafening effect. After a time,
order was restored by the anthers, who brought the open
air proceedings of the fete to a close.
A banquet was then given in a pavillion erected on
the grounds, at which Lord Drumlanrig, as vice-presi-
dent of the society, in the unavoidable absence of the
Marquis of Breadalbane, filled the chair. In discharging
the duties which thus devolved upon him, his Lordship
was ably supported by the -Right Hon. Fox Manle, the
Chisholm, and other gentlemen well known for their
high national spirit, and the interest which they take in
everything connected with Scotland. The Chisholm
especially was most happy in giving the right tone and
character to the proceedin gs of the society. He an-
nounced the list of prizes. ;!Zany of the successful can-
didates have had their nan les already recorded, but
there are some who still remain to be mentioned; the
most important of these, and indeed of any, is the list
of those who have been successful in archery, and to
whom prizes to the amount of 300 guineas in plate, or
otherwise, will be awarded. They are as follow:
Greatest gross score, Mr. R. Mor,ze (West Norfolk Archers) 617
Greatest number of hits, Mr. H. Ford (Queen's-park
Archers) ... •• • ... ... Is 2
Second greatest gross score, Mr. C. Garnett (Lichfield
Archers) "... 571
Second greatest hits, Mr. P. Muir (Edinburgh Salisbury
Archers) ... ..• ... 124
Third gross score, Mr. J. Bramhall (West Norfolk) 472
Third gross hits, Mr. J. K. Heath (St. George's Archers) 88
Gross golds, Mr. H. llippisley (Royal Toxopholites)
Greatest score at 100, Mr. E. Meyrick (West Berks) 133
Greatest number of hits at 100, Mr. T. Meyler (West Berks) 34
Greatest score at 80, Mr. E. W. Willis (Queen's .park
Archers) ... ... 185
Greatest hits at 80, Mr. Marr (St. George's Archers) ... 36
Greatest score at 60, Mr. Hutchon ( St. George's Archers) 110
Greatest hits at 60, Mr. Flood (Queen's-park Archers) 25
Golds at 100, Mr. Leatham (Wakefield Archers)... ... 3
Golds at 80, Mr. J. Mellor ... . . 3
Golds at 60, Mr. H. Garnett (Lichfield Archers)... ... 3
The list of pipers who gained prizes is as follows:-
1. RoderickM‘Kay, piper to Mr. .M.‘Kay, of Arisaig.

2. Donald Maenz-ie,-Taimouth Castle.
3, Donald ill'lnnes.
4. Charles Macdonell, piper to Captain Charles Forbes.
FOR THE SWORD DANCE.

1. Alexander Cameron, piper to the Hon. W. Scarlet
2. Angus Macintosh.
FOR REELS.

1. Donald M'Craw.
2. Donald Mlienzie, Taymouth Castle.
FOR THE BEST-DRESSED HIGHLANDER.

1. JohnM:lCen;iet piper to the Marquis of Breadalbane.
2. James M'Lennan.
3. Donald M'Pherson, head-keeper to Sir Henry Meux.
The CursoLm also announced that Colin M'Donald,
Cranachan, had won the largest number of prizes given
at the fete, and was therefore entitled to an extra prize
on that account. _ _ .

The CHAIRMAN also announced during the evening
that her Majesty and Prince Albert had subscribed 501.
to the society, and that Lord Holland had consented to
allow the use of his park at the repetition of the na-
tional games next year.
The proceedings at the banquet terminated soon after
ten o'clock, and the company assembled there returned
to town.

LA. PRIMA BALLERINA.

A SKETCH.
(From Her Majesty's Theatre.)

'Hong the shadows of the mountains
That have frowns for Roman land—

By the forests and the fountains
Are encamped the brigand band.
On the mission of their plunder
They have ceased awhile to roam,
And their hearts are softened under
The tender touch of home!
Bright wives and pretty children
Group laughing round their knees—
Their hearts are proud, their voices loud,
With flushing revelries!
The robbers glory, where they dwell,
In spoils of recent booty,
The while sweet smiles around them tell
Of playfulness and beauty.

n.
Now lift your heart and listen
To the tumult of their noise;
They drink, and game, and glisten
, In the glory of their joys;
While their younger and their purer,
Who yet have done no wrong,
Are leaping to the mandoline,
And dancing to the song!

111.
What ho! there screams a whistle,

That comes shrilly on its way—
Now half that band of brigands
Leap up to their foray!
They know that plunder-warning—
Alive their pulses throb—
There are victims on the highway,
And the time is come to rob!

Iv.
On bravely rolls a carriage
Upon its easy track;
You hear the mule-bells jangle,
Postilion's sharp whips crack!
There are riches to be gained, tho',
And luxuries to lop,
And your true Italian Turpins
Have raised the shout to " Stop 1"

Courier, cameriera,
Postilion—all are seized!
Be sure the gentleman inside
Is anything but pleased!
He is the mighty mqiire
Of the ballet of all France;
But, " will he nill he," now, I vow,
lie must get out to dance!

He capers in grim terror
As the bandit chiefs approach,
When, lo! the Captain lights upon
A treasure in the coach!
A fair and lovely lady,
With light whose bright eyes brim—
Will the Captain e'er get tired
Of their shining upon him !
Will he rob her of no kisses?
Will he spare her purse and life,
Will he woo his beauty-prisoner,
And win her for his wife?
Will he tease the Ballet-Maitre,
And consummate his woe?
Or will he ask Ma'nfselle to dance,
And after—let her go?
vi.
Yes, that's the resolution
The Chief is prone to take,
For there is no evolution,
He hears, she cannot make;
The Ballet-Maitre tells him,
Beyond all sort of doubt,
That Ma'm'oelle beats all dancers
In Creation out and out!