The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-30 00:00:00

oplieion.—( Hear, bear.) In support of that statement I in-
star ced the case?, of the boroughs of Guildford and Bristol,
wb are Conservative principles predominate among the kiln.
liVeints : and I argued that, on the principle urged even by the
lion. Gentleman himself, under the circumstances the Con-
sservative principle should be attended to as well as the
Liberal, and that it should, like its opponent elsewhere, pre-
dominate in these places. The Hon. Gentleman said that the
people had the choice of the magistracy. The Hon. Gentle-
men is wrong.—(Mr. Roebuck was understood to say across
he table that he meant indirectly.) The Hon. Gentleman is
wronsr, in presuming that under the law as it now stands the
people have the choice of the magistracy. Guildford and
Bristol are proofs to the contrary. The lion. Gentleman.
presumes that, because the town council have the selection u*
the magistrates, and the people the election of the teems
council, they have also the choice of the magistrates inearectly.
I understand the lion. Gentleman to say so.—(Ale. Roebuck
was understood to reply across the table in tl'c affirmative.)
The Hon. Gentleman is mistaken in his presumption. If he
be otherwise, why deny to the Conservee;ve constituencies of
Bristol and Guildford what he alloees to the Liberal consti-
tuencies of other places ? Lookeng at the abstract question,
I say I doubt the policy, on *;.ure principles of justice, of any
borough being solely greverned by Conservative or Liberal
town councils; but it the feeling and opinions of the one
are represented teed respected. on what ground are those
of the other unattended to and despised ?—( Loud cheers.)
That was the case I adduced in support of my argumciit.
I then showed that when the Conservative town council of
Guildford, elected by a Conservative consteuency, had
recommended twelve gentlemen to the Home Office as fit
and proper persons to be appointed to the commission of the
peace for the borough —nine of those individuals being Con-
servatives and the remaining three Liberals—the Noble Lord
bad inverted the order in which they were recommendad, and
bad placed the Conservatives in the same position as the
Liberals, by choosing only three of their number—just a
third, notwithstanding that recommendation. In Bristol,
likewise, where a compromise had been entered into betweeo
the two parties, Liberal and Conservative, by which twelve
of each were recommended to the Noble Lord for aeepoint-
rnent to the magistracy, six out of the twelve recommended by
• the Conservative party were excluded from t}' I.,st, while all
those recommended by the Liberal were retained. That was
the case I endeavoured to establish ; end if I succeeded in
doing so, it was equal hypocrisy in .e.!ae Hon. Gentleman, and
simulated love of justice not less that with which be has
charged me to say that in the'ee appointments to the magis-
tracy the voice of the pen ',le was consulted. But it is of a
piece with the Hon. Gemtleman's arguments and the policy of
his party to extol w'aatever agrees with his own feelings, or
makes in favour -of their side as just and fair and excellent,
while they we',re perfectly passive—quite content—to see the
recommend..ations of those who are equally the people with the
individunls whose cause they espoused superseded, and set at
nought.—( Cheers.) What, then; becomes of the Hon. Gen-
tlernan's simulated regard for the voice of the people ?
( Cheers.) Where the voice of the people is in accordance
with my own, says the Hon. Gentleman's argument, let it
prevail, but when it is in dissonance with it let it be silent.
You have no cause of complaint because you disagree with me,
and it is quite ridiculous for you to prefer a charge against the
Noble Lord because he has overlooked your recommendation,
and chosen magistrates from those of my opinions and my
party.—( Hear, hear.) Such are the lion. Gentleman's argu-
ments—such is his regard fo the voice of the people. As
long as it agrees with his, eivvn opinions it is to be omnipotent
—as long as it dissent.. from them it is to be as nought.—
( Hear, hear.) I hane now done, Sir. I have redeemed my
pledge given at tlee outset of these observations. I have con-
fined myself strictly to explanations of the charges personal
and politicel made against me by the Hon. Gentleman. I
have endeavoured to show that the accusation of employing
the rower I held, while in office, for party purposes, was
utterly inconsistent with the fact—l trust not unsuccessfully.—
( Cheers.) I have attempted to demonstrate that the Hon.
Gentleman grossly misrepresented my argument—l believe not
in vain.---(Cheers.) I have, I hope, satisfied the House that
his charges of hypocrisy and simulated love of justice are quite
as unfounded as his pretensions of pure love of justice and
entire attention to the opinions of the people.—( Cheers.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said that he might claim the right of re-
joinder to the Right Hon. Baronet's reply ; but he would not
do so, as he considered the reply, like the attack, equally dull
and unpointed, and entirely unworthy of his notice.—( Laugh-
ter and ironical cheers.)
Mr. T. GL AD STONR (as we understood) said that the
borough of Leicester 'Kas by no means well pleased with the
magisterial appointror,nts of the Noble Lord ; and he could
inform the House, in addition, that an address to his Majesty
on the F.ubject, signed by a great majority of the respectable
inhabitants of the town, was ready for presentation at the
first opportunity. Of the ten persons who had been ap-
pointed to the magistracy in Leicester, nine had voted for
his (Mr. Gladstone's) opponents in the last election for
the borough. Of these nine eight were very active sup-
porters of their cause. Besides this, five of them were So-
cinians, one a Baptist, three were Churchmen, and one of
them was a very doubtful character.—(Laughter and
" Hear.") He (Mr. Gladstone) did not mean as to the cha-
racter of his morals, but the character of his creed ; and he
wished to be understood as casting no reflection on either. If
that was not enough for the measure of the Noble Lord, be
(Mr Gladstone) did not know what was. After a few more
such specimens of it, the constituencies of the country would
be less than ever inclined to repose confidence in the Govern-
ment.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Gladstone) had been identified with
charges made against the Noble Lord by the Hon. Member
for Bristol, by the cheer he had uttered in support of it ; but
he wished to qualify that identification by an interpretation,
similar, if not in terms, in strict sentiment, to that afforded. by
his Hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool.
Mr. F. BARING said the Right Hon. Baronet 'had com-
plained that due weight was not given to the Cmservative re-
commendation in the appointment of magistrate's, and the Hon.
Baronet the Member for Bristol had stated that the borough
be represented was the only place where there was a pure
Tory corporation, which was the cause of his observations on
the subject. Now, he (Mr. Baring) happened to represent a
Tory corporation also ; and, in accordance with their wishes,
he waited on the Noble Lord at the Home Office,- to state
their fears that they would 'ee injured by the new measure.
He was satisfied with the Noble Lord's reasons, and he told
his constitutents so, when they urged him to make a second
application for them, He (Mr. Baring) would not presume
to give advice on the subject at issue, but he felt bound to say
that it was in such a situation that the Hon. Baronet who
made the charge was bound to either proceed with it, or re-
tract it altogether.
Mr. O'CONNELL could not help adverting to the new
ingredient which had been thrown into the debate by the
Hon Member for Leicester (Mr. Gladstone), who had as-
sailed the Corporation of a particular place on account of their
religious opinions. That was a ground of quarrel which in
these days he certainly had hoped might have been spared.—
(Hear, hear.) This, he had hoped, was not a time when the
religion of individuals should be brought against them as a
charge.—(Hear, hear.) The debate on the present occasion
had assumed various shapes. The House had been witness
to three kinds of public exhibitions—tragedy, comedy, And
farce.—( A laugh.) The performance commenced with all the
tragic dignity of an impeachment of a Minister. 'Then they
bad the amusing comedy or interlude between the Hon.
Member for Finsbury (Mr. T. Duncombe) and the Hon.
Member for Kuaresborough ( Mr. Richards) ; and, finally,
they had the broad farce exhibited by the last-named gentle-
man in his reply.—( A -laugh.) But various and amusing as
the debate had been, he thought it had also been very use-
ful—useful in this, that it had brought out the Right Hon.
Baronet's (Sir R. Peel's) admission that the popular voice
ought to be respected in matters of municipal government.
—( Hear, hear.) The substance of the Right Hon. Baronet's
charge against the Noble bird was, that he had not made an
equal selection of magistrates, but that he had given an undue
preponderance to those of his own party. If the Noble Lord
had done so, whose fault was it ? It was the fault of the very
party to which the Right Hon. Baronet belonged, because, as
the Municipal Reform Bill passed that House, the town coun-
cillors would have had the power of nominating the magis-
trates absolutely ; and the Government, if it interfered at all,
must have done so upon its own direct responsibility.—( Hear,
hear.) As the Bill originally stood, the Minister of the
Crown would have had only a negative veto upon the appoint-
ment of the town council, for the exercise of which veto
he must in every instance have given a distinct and posi-
tive reason.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.) The wisdom of
another branch of the Legislature induced them to alter that
part of the Bill ; and the debate of that evening had given
a pretty convincing proof of the prudence of the altera-
tion.--(Hear.) The complaint brought forward against the
Government was, that they had given the commission of
the peace to so many Liberals. He (Mr. O'Connell) was
obliged to the Right Hon. Baronet for making such a charge
--(Hear, bear, hear.) It was an exceedingly useful charge,
because, till now the people of England did not know
g Rt
hi h
them
much the Government had been doing for them. T e
.Hon. Baronet had taken the trouble of Ulf-. jrmin
pp
He
upon that point; and in that respect. at le of
',east the eo
England were very much indebted to Hear, hear.)
(Mr. O'Connell) did not compl°_'.n that it had been the prac-
tice of the Right Hon. Ba7onet whilst he was in office to ap-
point Tory Magistrate.,, He did not know that there was any
ground of complaint upon that head. He did not complain
that men had been appointed because they were Tories; but
of tbss.he thought there was reason to complain, that men had
been appointed ee be Magistrates who would not have been so
appointed if tleey had been Radicals or Liberals.—( Hear. )
No matter ;chat was said—this was the fact : in the counties
of Ene:.:ad, 99 out of Ioo—it had always hitherto beer, a total
exclusion from the magistracy if a man dared to entertain libe-
ral e,pinions. (Hear, bear.) It was so even at this moment.
rais, however, be hoped would be one of the results of the
-present debate, that the Government would no longer see the
neer,ssity of attending to the recommendations of Tory Lords
Lieutenant.--( Hear, hear.) In many instances he thought it
would be advisable to turn the Lieutenants themselves to the
!right about ; but at all events this was evident, that hereafter
the Government ought in a great degree to keep itself inde-
pendent of these recommendations. Alluding to an observa-
tion that had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentleman,
the Member for the University of Cambridge, the Honour-
able and Learned Gentleman stated that he had been turn-
ing the point over in his mind, and endeavouring to re-
collect whether, during the last five years that the Right Hon.
Gentleman was Secretary for Ireland, there had been one man
of Liberal principles appointed to the magistracy in that coun-
try ? He believed there had not. __(Hear.) He could not re-
member one. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman concluded
by observing, that the first triumph of the Government in the
present debate was the publicity which would now be given to
the fact, that they for the first time had nominated and given
the commission to a number of excellent persons, who joined
with them in their own Liberal opinions. Their second
triumph consisted in the exposure which had been given to
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