The Sun.
London, England, 1825-03-05 00:00:00

TIOUSE OF COMMONS.

Lord STANLEY presented a petition from Bury, in Lanca-
shire, in favour of the Liverpool and 3lanchester Rail-road.
The SPEAKER was summoned to the House of Peers, and on
isicreturn acquainted the House that he had heard the Royal
Assent given, by commission, to several Bills (for which see
Lord's Report.)
Mr. CURTEIS obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the erec-
Woo of a new Corn Exchange in or near Mark-lane, London.
Upon the bringing up the Report of the Committee on the
litaading Orders,
Mr. STUA RT WORTLEY gave notice of a motion on
lbe standing Orders of the House, but for what day we did not
ger.
The Report, after a conversation of a desultory nature, in,
vati+ch Mr. STUART-WORTLET, the SPEAKER, Mr. NICHOL-
SON CALVERT, and one or two other Members participated,
wris agreed to.
HUNGERFORD MARKET.

Mr. STUART-WORTLEY brought up the Report on the
Hungerford Market petition; wherein it was recommended
tat the Standing Orders in respect to such petition should not
be dispensed with.
TEES AND WEARDALE -RAIL-WAY.

llr. E. LITTLETON presented a Petition from Walsall
as-lust the Tees and Weardale Rail-way Bill.
Lord LOWTHER having expressed his inclination to sup-
part the Bill in question' as one of the least objectionable of all
the
.private Bills that had been brought into the House, and one
against which no sort of valid objection had been raised by
T.,,cse who opposed it on account of-its alleged approximation to,
art encroachment on their land, the -question -.was put on the
second reading of the Bill.
Sir HENRY HARDINGE said, that of the five large
landed proprietors through whose estates this railway was to
puss, there was not one who did not dissent to the proposed
measure. If that measure was nearly as beneficial as it was re-
presented, it was not likely that such individuals would not be
among its supporters. A noble relative of his, the Marquis of
Londonderry, had complained that this rail-way would pass
within a mile of his mansion and estate ; but the Noble Lord
who spoke last said, that the Marquis could not experience such
an inconvenience, because he would not even see the rail-way
]roar his highest window, owing to the broken and undulating
nature of theintervening land. But if his noble relative could
riot see the rail-way, he was sufficiently near to be annoyed
film morning to night with the great noise occasioned by the
locomotive engines to be employed. This, it must be admitted,
would be an extraordinary nuisance ; and therefore Lord Lon-
Oanderry had a just and parliamentary ground of complaint.
The fact was, moreover,that this rail-way, after a line of some
20 miles, would enter the sea precisely at a point where there
was neither port, haven, town, nor village near it. The ntility of
sach a project in a commercial point of view was therefore more
t!itin equivocal. It was observed, however, that on a former occa.
won, In 1818, when-it was proposed to carry a similar rail-way
within five miles and a half of Lord Londonderry's property, no
sach objections were offered by that Noble Lord as he now
Made. Precisely for this reason—that it was then so distant
frwn hini.—(llearl)--All Lord Londonderry asked was, that
it should be removed again to the former line, passing about
two miles from his estate, instead of one. But since 1813, a
nobte person, for whom he (Sir H. Hardinge) had the highest
respect, Lord Encombe, the Lord Chancellor, had purchased
the ground through which it was formerly proposed to carry the
railtsay ; and he could therefore tell the House. that the rea-
HOn for bringing it now so much nearer his (Sir H. Hardinge's)
noble relative was, that the projectors of the scheme thought it
was much safer, and a thing to be done with less risk, to run
toe rail-way thus upon the edge of Lord Londonderry's proper-
ty, than to carry it through the property of the present Earl of
tncombe.—(A laugh.)—The Honourable Gentleman con-
abided by moving that the Bill be read a second time that
day six months.
-Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said he should support the
Ritl, having already presented a petition to the House from the
/merchants and traders of London in its favour. He was in-
formed that out of 110 proprietors of land, through which the
proposed rail-road was to pass, only ten were dissentient. The
treat advantage of this measure was, that it would bring the
coals from that district into competition with those brought
trout the Tyne and Wear, and thus he greatly to the advantage
of the people of London.
Sir J. SHELLY supported the amendment.
Mr. WODDHOUSE said, that whatever objections might
be made to this particular measure, it could not be denied that
the duties on sea-borne coal pressed very heavy on the country.
It was thought that every proposal which was made to relieve
them ought to be encouraged, and he should therefore vote for
the kill being committed.
Mr. DAVENPORT opposed the Bill, and expressed his
strong objection to the introduction of loco-motive machines,
Altich he called " infernal," into that part of the country.
Mr. Alderman BRIDGES said a few words in favour of the

ford MILTON said, that the present plan had been framed
with a ♦iew of accommodating Lord Londonderry, that the line
had' been altered so as to avoid his country seat, hut as it hap-
pened to trench upon two of his Lordship's fields in another
place, which fields had been offered for sale, his Lordship chose
to dissent. Of the whole proprietors not one seventh dissented.
Oen principal proprietor had expressed his willingness to wave
bic dissent, if a particular clause were introduced, and this sug-
Onion was about to be complied with.

LAMBTON expressed himself generally favourable to
rail-roads, and the opposition which he should offer to this mea-
stet was because the good which it held out would not
aaunterbalance the evil which it must produce. He wish-
ed to save the parties the expence of going into the
. Committee- A. report had been made by persons well skilled
to nce upon the qualities of the coal, in which it was
..=eto be of a description which he had himself found so
leas that he had given up working it. The statement now
wade to the House was to a different purport, and this deception
.he thought, rendered the persons who made it unworthy of the
attention of the House. He contended that the number of per-
sansamenting to the meagureliad been over-stated. He wholly
disclaimed all opposition to the bill on the score of interested
motives ; it was impossible that he could do so, because the coal
in question was of a description with which he had nothing to
do I but he objected to it on the ground of its h?ing useless in a
public point of view, and highly injurious to individuols (among
others, Lord Londonderry) through whose lands the rail-road
was to pass.
agv. POWLBTT-suivorted-the Bill.
Mr. N. CALVEItT and AIT. LITTLETON said a few words
In support of the Bill.
rdr. Alderman WOOD thought nothing could be more fair
than that competition should be encouraged, and that the people
offload= should be permitted to judge for themselves whether
the Coals were good or not.
Mr. T. WILSON supported the Bill.
Lore GEORGE CAVENDISH opposed the Bill, because
he could not support sach wild speculations when opposed to
the .dvantage of the landed interest. It seemed to be a ques-
tion between a set of *Peculators, and the landed proprietors
offbc county of Durham. He would gibe his vote for the
other side.
mr. cURWEN expressed himself favourably disposed to-
wards the Bill, and -
Mr. CA LC ltA FT op_posed it.
sir M. w. RIDLEY said, that the chance was very distant
that the public of London would derive any benefit from the
measure. He conceived it to be a wild speculation, and would
therefore oppose it-
Mr. phomMl3ll said a few words which were rendered
quite inaudible by the vehement cries of " Question."
The Rouse
then divided-when the numbers appeared—
Fbt the motion, 631 Against it, 53 Majority, N.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered tube com-

sited!.
1111. Alderman THOMPSON presented a Petition from the
mathanis and traders of London in favour of the Tees Rail-

.....2ALAMBTON said, the petition had originally been
11,t,he bands of the Member far Taunton (Mr. Baring),

who had authorized hitn'to say, that the allegations in the peti-
tion were founded on the grossest mistakes.
The Edinburgh Rail-road Bill was read a first time.
Mr. FLE3IING 'presented a Petition from the inhabitants
of Southampton, praying for the repeal of the Assessed Taxes.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a Petition from the inha-
bitants of the Ward of Bishopsgate, praying for the repeal of
the house and winiovr tax, and declaring that they telt no gra-
titude towards the Chancellor of the Exchequer for his declared
intention to repeal•the duties on wine. The worthy Alderman
presented a similar Petition from Oripplegate.
Sir J. SHELLEY requested the Hon. Member for York-
-shire to postpone his motion for the second reading of the Game
Laws Bill, which was fixed for Monday next, because be could
not attend on that day.
Mr. S. WORTLEY said, that he could not postpone the
motion, because it was difficult at the present period of the
Session to find an open day.
Mr. LA MBTON moved for a copy of the by laws of Lon-
don, relative to the Coal Trade.—Ordered.
Colonel BAGWEUL presented a petition from:the inhabi-
tants of Clonmel, praying•for the establishment of Provincial
Banks in Ireland.
Mr. LINDSAY presented a petition from the Directors of
17 Insurance Companies in the city of London, praying that
the House would repeal the duties which affect persons insur-
ing against fire. The premium which the offices took was two
shillings, and the duty to Government was three shillings, be-
ing no less thud 150 per cent. on the former sum.
The Hon. Member. presented similar petitions from Dundee,
„Falmouth, and other places.
Mr. SCARLETT presented a petiticn against the Bill for
the recovery of Small Debts, signed by a number of Gentle-
men connected with the profession of the law. The Hon.
.Herber said, that he considered the measures introduced by
his Noble Friend (Lord Althorp) was too violent an innova-
tion on the existing form of proceeding to obtain the sanction
of Parliament.
Lord A LTHORP contended that the measure would be
attended with most beneficial consequences.
The second reading of the Dissenters' Marriage Bill was
postponed to Friday next.
Mr. ROBERTSON expressed a hope that it would not go
through the-House when he was away.
• ARMY ESTIMATES.
Thal-louse having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply,
Lord PALMERS'f ON rose to bring forward the Army Es-
timates fbr the year. In rising to state to the House the nature
of the supply at present demanded, he should begin by point-
ing out the difference between the items of the last and those
of the present year. The total increase of force for the year
1825 was 8,923 rank and file, exclusive of officers, at a charge
of 229,6841. At the head of the estimate, title " land forces,"
the addition seemed to be 11,920 rank and file ; but this was
counterbalanced by several reductions which would presently
be stated. Upon the item of " staff," there was no materiel
alteration—a small sum of 8281., merely, arising from the
transfer to that department of some new expenses. In the
public • departments there was an increase of 1,8801. The
House would probably be aware that the duty of examin-
ing the accounts of all the regiments of Ireland, anti also the
examination of all accounts connected with the militia had
been transferred from the audit to which they originally be-
longed. It would be easily conceived that this transfer had occa-
sioned a considerable increaseof business in the office to which it
had come. He had endeavoured to provide for it by internal
arrangements, and hoped still to be able to do so; but businees
of that description involved a great deal more labour when it first
came into new hands, than it would do afterwards. In the arti-
cle of medicines there was an increase of 1,0781. ; in the volun-
teer corps, a decrease of 6,38/.; in the recruiting troops and
companies of Regiments in India, an increase of 7,0801. The
next item was the Military College ; upon this there was an in.
crease of 1,768/. in the vote, but there was a considerable dimi-
nution in point of actual charge. The estimate aa to the Mi-
litary College was prepared thus :—On the one hand, the
whole amount of expellee was stated ; and on the other, the
probable amount of debts to be received; the one item
was then deducted from the other, and the difference formed
the estimate. It so happened, that in the present year
there was a diminution of 11,000/. in the expense; but
the expected amount of subscription from the cadets bad di-
minished in a still greater degree. On the army pay of Ge-
neral Officers there was a diminution of 17,647!. The garri-
sons were nearly the same as last year. The full pay for retired
officers was diminished by casualties 3,4421. The half pay
in the same way, 38,8441. Foreign half-pay was less than last
year by 1,550/. In pensioners of Chelsea and Kilmainham
Hospitals, 4271.—a small difference, arising chiefly in the price
of provision. On the out-pensioners of Chelsea hospital, there
was an increase of 21,495/. On the Military Asylum, 9701.
The widows' pensions had increased 4,11i1!. ; the compassionate
list, bounty warrants, and pensions for wounds, were nearly the
same as in the last year ; the superannuation had increased,
within a trifle, 2,6001. ; and on the veteran battalions, as they
were to be reduced, there was a saving of 73,5381. It now be-
came necessary for him to explain the grounds upon which this
increase of force was asked ; and next, the manner in which it
was proposed to be effected. Upon the first point, he had at least
this advantage--it could not now be urged by the advocates of re-
duction, that the additional military force demanded was wanted
to terrify or coerce the country. In England he saw nothing but
prosperity and confidence between the Government and the peo-
ple; and, even the less favoured region of Ireland, there appeared
rays of brighter omen than Parliament had been accustomed
to. In dropping this observation, he by no means alluded to
the vote winch had passed the house a few nights since. He
trusted that that vote had already gone forth through the em-
pire as a harbinger of peace ; and believed that its principle, if
carried into full effect, would do more than thousands of sol-
diers could ever do to maintain tranquillity in Ireland; but in
what he said now, he meant to point merely at those symptoms
which had been apparent when the estimates were made ; and
the mere general improvements which had taken place in the
state of Ireland justified him in saying, that there was nothing
in the aspect of that country which ought to weigh in favour
of extending our military force. The grounds, indeed, upon
which this increase of military establishment was meditated
were purely external. It might be a fair question, perhaps,
how far it was for the benefit of a country to possess colonies_
whether it was better that she should confine herself to com-
merce and improvement at home, or form settlements abroad ;
but there could be no doubt as to the course which ought
to be pursued by a country having already in its possession
such colonies as belonged to England. As far as civiliza-
tion extended in the world—from the most northern point
in America to the southernmost extremity of Asia—the for-
mation of British settlements, and the accumulation of Bri-
tish wealth, was to be found. To abandon possessions gained
at the cost of so much blood and treasure—many of them
important outposts for the protection of our commerce, and
the security of our dominion—would he a violation of public
faith, and a forfeiture of national honour. In estimating the
amount of force necessary for th eservice of our coloniesat present,
it was impossible to be guided in any degree by the force which
had been sufficient for us in any former period of peace. It
was not only requisite that adequate garrisons should be pro-
vided for every station, but it was also necessary that we should
have a surplus force, in order that we might have the means of
sending. reinforcements, from time to time, to places at which
they might be called for. In the present state of our army this
could not be done. It was almost impossible, with such means,
to furnish strength for the ordinary duties. But reinforcing any
where could only be accomplished by abstracting the troops
wanted froso the garrison of some other place ' • and, on a recent
occasion, when the East India Company had been compelled
to desire a reinforcement- of 5,000 men, there had been no
means at all of complying with that demand, but by stopping
' five regiments which were under orders for England, and which
had already been on foreign service more than twenty years.
And this fact led him to another consideration, which was, that
the colonial service of a country like England ought not to be
converted into a perpetual banishment for all who were
employed in it.—(Hear !)---When a man entered the army
he devoted his health, his hopes, his prospects to the
service of his country. The feeling which carried him for Ward
was one of a paramount description ; it rendered him superior
to all considerations of fortune, of personal convenience, of
death. But the case was widely different, when, after going
through the dangers and fatigues of a 20 years' war, the same
man was sent to consume the rest of his days in a pestilential
climate, and on a duty which was unpleasing to him. It was
hard to tell brave officers who had fought through field after
field in a protracted contest, and whose names would be found
in every legend which recorded the victories of England—it
was hard to tell such men that they must be doomed, now
their country was at peace, to end their lives in some remote
colony, compared to the service in which their former perils
formed an enviable condition.—(Hear, hear! )—He was quite
sure that the House would go along with him upon this subject.
—The service of these obscure and distant stations was ten
times more trying, both to the mind and the bodily strength
of an officer, than the severest labours which could be imposed
upon him in a European campaign. There was the climate,
wasting his life and his strength,—the mere formal duties,
with our existing establishment, extremely harrassing and
constant; and, what was still more galling to the feelings
of a soldier, there was not the smallest hope, the slightest
possibility, of acquiring distinction.---( Hear, hear, hear !)—lle
did trust that the House would feel that this was a state of
things which ought not to continue ; and that while it was but
their duty to place at the disposal of Government the means of
properly defending our colonies, they ought also, for the sake
of our brave soldiers, to furnish the means of relieving our fo-
reign garrisons at a proper time, and,
what was scarcely less
important, at a proper season always of the year.—(Hear !)
Assuming, therefore, that such obligations as these did exist, I
be would next proceed to the question how the necessary in-

crease of force was to be raised. There were three meties of
doing the thing; and he trusted that the one selected was the
best. First, it was possible to add a certain number of rank and
file to the existing establishment of each regiment. Secondly.,
new regiments Might be raked of the same calibre as those al-
ready existing. Lastly, (and this was the course proposed to be
adopted,) new companies—not merely fresh rank and file—.
might he added to the regiments already existing. Now the first
plan—the adding mere rank and file—would have been the
cheapest, because there would have been no increase of offi-
cers above the rank of subalterns. But the objection was this—
the country would not then have obtained at Ironic such a dis-
posable reserve as was necessary to make proper arrangements
for relief. The second plan—the raising additional regiments—
would have been free from this objection as to relief; but then
it would have been too expensive, from the great cost of staff
appointments and regimental allowances. The last plan—the
•additional companies—combined the advantages of cheapness
with the production of a disposable force ; and lie would shortly
describe the detail by which it was to be carried into execution.
The army was termed at present of battalions of 3 companies:
the strength of each battalion being 576 rank and tile.—
It was now intended to add 2 companies, so making each
battalion consist of 10 ; and these 10 companies were to be
divided into two distinct classes of force. Six companies were
to form what would be the service battalion, and these would
consist of 86 own each ; the other four companies would be
tke battalion of reserve, or of depot, and would amount only
to 224 men altogether. Thus, when the regiment was at
home, the whole would be considered as one battalion, and
quartered together; but when it was ordered on service, only
the six strong companies would go abroad ; the other four
remaining at home to recruit, and to provide for casualties--
In this way, the garrisons abroad would be made more effec-
tive than they were at present; because there was necessarily a
heavy delay, under the existing system, after any casualty oc-
curred, before reinforcements could be sent out. Troops had,
at present, whatever the emergency, to be raised and disciplined.
This occupied a long time; and before one casualty was pro-
vided for, another had occurred. But the reserve companies
would afford a fund, always ready in case of necessity, from
which draughts could be made, subject to none of tho delays
which hampered as under the existing arrangement. This alte-
ration would go still farther—it would materially assist the
business of relief. At present, when an officer abroad was
sent home by a medical certificate, the Commander-in-Chief
could only grant him a limited leave of absence, because his
duty pressed hard in the mean time on those, who were left be-
hind him. But, under the proposed system, nothing could be
more easy than to station an officer so situated at once with the
depot battalion ; and to send out in his place some other indivi-
dual better able to support the climate or the service. Here would
be a great advantage gained to officers, for they would not be
compelled, as now, on sudden emergencies, to exchange to
half-pay ; anti the soldiers, too, who were invalided from fo-
reign service, and were now discharged altogether on their arri-
val in England, might many of them become perfectly effec-
tive at the depot for home duties, and the training of recruits.
Upon the whole, it was his clear opinion that an increase of
military establishment upon the principle now proposed, would
not only be valuable as assuring as all convenience to the
country during peace, but becomes a valuable frame to hang a
larger force upon in case of war. He now came to the subject
of the Veteran Battalions—a force, which, as he had already
intimated, it was intended to disband altogether. It was one of
the conditions, as -the House was probably aware, upon which
pensions were granted to soldiers, that they should be forth-
coming, always for garrison or veteran battalions, whenever the
Crown thought fit to call upon them. When the veteran batta-
lions now embodied had been called out in the year 1821, nobody
had supposed that the necessity for keeping them together
could have been of long continuance. It was now between
three and four years that these men had been embodied; and
the House would probably think that Government had enter-
tained a proper feeling upon The subject, when he declared that
it was determined to disband them. The doing this was of
course to be considered not as a matter of regret, but as an act
of grace ; but it was thought right, after so many years of ser-
vice, to let them retire to their homes, and to enjoy in peace
the moderate pensions which the justice and the gratitude of
their country had afforded them : should it be found neces-
sary again to assemble them in arms, the present indulgence
granted would not lessen their alacrity to obey the call. The
grounds, then, on which the present increase was called for,
he had already stated to be the service of the colonies; and he
begged distinctly that it might not he supposed, that in
seeking such an addition to its military strength, Govern-
ment had the least reason to apprehend a breach of those
friendly relations which subsisted between England and other
powers. It would be obvious, indeed, that with any view
to war, such an increase as that proposed must be entirely in-
adequate ; but, at the same time, the house would be aware
that the success of this country in war, anti her policy in peace,
had given her a commanding influence among the nations of the
pwoosrsleds,sed. which; soother'his
inaucconuenetri
ty,waast
duty
England,
l
perhaps,
the
ti aadist
wellewvaesr
as her policy, to use for the advantage of
an influence which she never could maintain, unless foreign
powers saw that every part of her dominion was adequately de-
fended. For these reasons, although he knew that there world
be some persons ready to enlist any casual expression which •
might fall from him in their service, without the least reference
to any danger to be apprehended, but merely in conformity
with the principles upon which he thought a government ought
to act, trusting that, with reference to those principles, the
House would not think the force demanded disproportioned to .
the nature of the necessary service, he should move, that a
force of not exceeding 76,161 regular troops, exclusive of forces
in India, should be granted for the present year.
Colonel DA VIES said, that if he could take the case to be
precisely as the Noble Lord had described it, he certainly should
refuse to vote the increase of force which was demanded ; but
as he believed that there was in our threign relations abund-
ance to call for such a measure, he found himself reluctantly
compelled to give his assent to it. The Hon. Member then
adverted to the unnecessary quarrel into which England had
been forced with the Burmese. It was clear, from the very
dispatches, that the war might have been avoided by the slightest
portion of management; and the ground of dispute had been
an island, not worth the first charge of powder which would he
tired in defence of it. With respect to the troops in our Colo-
nies, he agreed fully that they ought to be relieved as often as
circumstances would admit ; but his complaint was, that the
force kept up in those Colonies was needlessly large altogether.
The Hon. Member concluded by deprecating the mode in
which the proposed increase was to be affected; and insisted
that battalions of six companies were not adapted to manoeuvre
in the field.

Mr.. HOBHOLTSK felt surprised at the Noble Lord's bring-
ing forward, as a mere matter of course, a proposition of no less
importance than that of adding 15,000 men to our Standing
Army. Nevertheless his (Mr. Hobhouse) objection was more
to the principle than the details of the proposed measure. The
Noble Lord mentioned, it was true, that the state of the garrisons
in our Colonies called for this augmentation ; •but the Noble Lord
carefully abstained front specifying what Colonies he meant.
There were two remarkable points in the King's Speech, deli-
, vered at the commencement of the present Session of Parlia-
ment—these were the recommendation of a new penal law for
Ireland, and of an augmentation of our standing army. The
former measure had been disposed of by that House, but the hat-
ter ought not to have been introduced, as if it were of no conse-
quence in a constitutional, or even in a financial point of view.
Ile wished the Noble Lord had said, the increase of our mili-
tary force was to pmvide for resistance to foreign aggression ; for
he could see nothing in our present domestic position that could
warrant such augmentation; at the same time lie could con-
ceive possible danger from the positions of other countries with
which he was told we were at peace. The House had a right to
inquireof Ministers, why the military occupation of Spain, the
dominion of one of our Allies, by the French was permitted;
and yet, monstrous and unjust as that transaction was, no Ho-
nourable Member had yet risen, as he did then, to put that
question, and to ask also, were we, or were we not, by our
connivance, parties to_ the affair? ,Without proceeding, there-
fore, to4pe discussion of the Noble Lord's proposition, he
should pattse for an answer to those questions which he should
put to the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite—who, even
in the absence of the Right Honourable the Secretary for Fo-
reign Affairs, could, no doubt, and they ought to give, the
inibrination desired. Ile would therefore repeat his desire to
know, how long the military occupation of Spain by France
was to continue or be permitted by this country ? and if the
present proposed augmentation of our military force was
to he the last for which Ministers would apply until the
exigencies of war, or at least of impending war, should call
for increase ?
Sir R. WILSON felt the most constitutional jealousy of any
increase of our military force, convinced that a standing army
was a dangerous excrescence the existence of which was incom-
patible with the public safety—still in the immediate measure
before the Committee he saw no cause for constitutional
jealousy. The question resolved itself simply into thin _were
the proposed auknentation necessary for the relief of our garri-
sons abroad ? His own conviction was that that increase was
imperiously called for.—(Hear hear !)-11 e had formerly
many . inti-
mate knowledge of the state of of our foreign
Ile had visited one lately, but not the least important of them,ire
he meant Gibraltar ; and although he found every thinglt there
in the most complete state possible—the comforts of the's() dr
attended .to most scrupulously vet nevertheless, he felt him-
self called upon to d' the garrison ec re, t the troops were
requisite to
its defence and for its
inadequate to the discharge of the duties which were
.11
garrisons.
Preservation.—( Hear,
were similarly it likely, therefore, that our other garrisons that
cir-
cumstanced, he should not hesitate to declare his conviction
Lord was abso ute.y
the augmentation required bthe Noble
y ot enter into necessary...._( Hear, hear, hear I,)—lje would n
hear !)—gonceivig

lion. Friend's other question, conceiving that that was not the
way in which Gentlemen ought to make communications to
Parliament respecting hostile discussions or hostile expecta-
tion ; but he would ask was it posible that the military occu-
pation of Spain by the French should be allowed to continue?
The present state of Portugal also was such as could not be
long permitted to exist. In addition, our virtual recognition of
the independence of the South American States had created
heart-burnings in certain quarters. For all these reasons we
were bound to "take a position as would enable us in the event
of war to act with promptitude and effect. The British Govern-
ment, in its anxiety to pursue British interests—to act in con-
timnity with the wishes of the people, and to ensure the safety
of the State and its dependencies, considered the measure pro-
posed by the Noble Lord necessary—he fully concurred in that
view, and should, therefore, give the proposition his warmest
support.—(llear
Mr. Secretary PEEL observed, that he did not think any
ground bad been made out for casting blame upon those
lion. Members who were absent from the House upon the
present occasion. Having heard the proposition generally
front his Right lion. Friend, the common feeling seemed to
be that there was nothing unreasonable in the augmentation of
the force of the army.--( Hear !)—Therefore it was that those
who had upon former occasions taken part in the discussions
of the Army Estimates, thought it was not at all necessary for
them to come down to the House merely to listen to a discus-
sion which they did not feel themselves called upon to take
part in. If he required any evidence in support of this view
of the case, he should refer to the three speeches which they
had heard upon the subject. The Honourable and Gallant
Member who was the first to advert to his Noble Friend's
statement (Colonel Davies), admittted that in the general view
which he took of the present state of Europe, in order to
maintain the dignity of the country, an increase of the mili-
tary force was necessary. The Hon. Ilember fur Westmin-
ster (Mr. Hobhouss) said, that he had no wish to oppose the
vote; his only objection arose from constitutional views of the
subject. The next lion. Gentleman who had delivered his sen-
timents, confessed that he felt no constitutional hostility-to the
proposal of his Noble Friend. From the only three speeches,
therefore, which had been delivered on the question, he felt
himself authorised in concluding that the proposition was in all
its parts a fair one.—( Hear, hear!)—The proposition itself was
founded, as had been stated, upon the necessity of increasing
the strength of our garrisons abroad. The Honourable
and Gallant Member for Southwark (Sir Robert Wilson),
in that honourable and candid manner, which as a military
man and a man of honour always distinguished his conduct,
had made a statement to them with regard to one of the Bri.
tish fortresses which he bed seen. 11 e told them that he had
observed the best discipline, and the greatest attention to the
comforts ofthe soldiers, but that as a good judge he was bound
to state that it was not right to leave that fortress with so few
troops. This happened to be the only one of the fortresses he
had seen ; and was it not fair to conclude from kis statement
that the others were in the same situation ?—(Hear !)—With-
out the necessity of any reference therefore to foreign politics,
on the question of the preservation of peace, there were distinct
grounds upon which the proposition ought to be acceded to.—
With regard to topics affecting the foreign policy of the country,
those had best be deferred till the presence of his Right Hon.
Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. The obliga-
tions they were all under to the gallant army which maintained
their glory and power in die war, ought to induce them to adopt
every means of relieving them from fatigue and lingering sick-
ness in foreign climates during peace.—(Hear, hear!)
Mr. CA LCRAFT said, that if the Hon. Members who
usually sat on his (the Opposition) side had conceived the
public exigencies did not require this augmentation, they
would be found at their posts to oppose it. Looking at the si-
tuation in which we stood, he thought that Government ought
to be put in possession of an effectual disposable force, and
therefore he fully concurrell in the vote, and lie trusted that in
supporting it he should not be considered inconsistent with his
former votes for diminishing the expenditure of the country.—
(Hear !)
Mr. BERNAL said, that under all circumstances he did not
think himself called upon to oppose the vote.
Mr. HUTCHINSON said, that when he considered that
our public debt at the present moment amounted to 800 mil-
lions and upwards, he was not inclined to vote away one shil-
ling through any confidence in Ministers. He saw no reason
for the proposed augmentation of the army. There were no
foreign wars to dread, and Ministers did not pretend to say that
there was any fear of internal dissensions. If there had been
any necessity for an increase of our military establishment, in
order to oppose the preposterous pretensions of the Holy Al-
liance, be far one should not, tinder such circumstances, op-
pose the vote; but in the present instance he saw no necessity
for any such increase ; and he should therefore oppose the reso-
lution of the Noble Lord.

Sir J. HOPE contended, that the new form of the battalions
was the most conducive to the interests of the service, and the
best calculated for field movements.
General GASCOYNE could not agreed with the Gallant
General who had spoken last, and contended, that a more effi-
cient system than the proposed one with regard to the Colonies
might have been adopted.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD (the Knight of Kerry) could easily
acount for the contrary opinions which had been expressed by
the two gallant Officers who had preCeded him. Indeed he be-
lieved that if the opinions of all the General Officers in that House
were to be asked upon a point of military detail like that sub-
mitted by the Noble Lord, no two would be found to agree upon
the subject. It might, perhaps,_ appear presumptuous in a Mi-
litia Officer, such as he (the Knight of Kerry) was, to offer his
opinion upon such matters, but he could not help thinking that
while the question, as to the expediency of the augmentation,
ought to be left to that House, all matters of detail should be
left to those official persons who were naturally, from their ex-
perience, the best judges of their necessity.—( Hear !)
Lord PA LMERSTON rose for the purpose of explaining a
misconception into which he conceived the Gallant General who
spoke last but one had fallen. The Gallant General thought
that under the new system the relief by the regiments was to
be abandoned, and that an interchange of officers and men
would alone take place. There was an advantage, however, in
the new system which the Gallant Officer had overlooked. He
alluded to the additional number of men which would by its
means he set free from the Home Service.
Sir R. WILSON wished to put a question to the Noble Lord
relative to the payment of pensions to wounded officers. It was
well known that while the half-pay was paid quarterly, the pen-
I sinus for wounds were only paid half-yearly. He thought that
the interest of so meritorious a class of officers ought to be
taken into consideration, and;that they should be put upon the
same footing as other half.pa? officers.
Lord PAL3IERSTON said, that he had every disposition to
accede to the wishes of the Hon. !Member; but that this part
ofat)hmeassutbejreocrt
theForces.belonged
Paymaster

iiit C. LONG said, that if no difficulty was urged against
the change in the Pay Office, there would be no hesitation in
acceding to it on his part.
Mr. J. SMITH concurred most cordially in the observations
which had fallen from his Gallant Friend (Sir R. Wilson.)
The case of wounded officers who had obtained pensions was
one of peculiar hardship, particularly that of those who having
obtained pensions which they imagined would have been con-
tinued for life, were afterwards deprived of them. The plea
for withholding these pensions was, that the officer had got
cured of his wounds, and, therefore, could not claim compen-
sation. Yet he (Mr. Smith) could not help thinking that where
such pensions had been granted under an implied if not express
extremecontract
that when he compared the
harshnesstlia that they
in wouldatnp
stopping
g continuedthem
tn 11 during rui nt
utter
e ruinlife, tilni e rme
many
platedcases
NMseamiter for Midhurst, with those
osfuethheaudnimfoirntunntiantne
notffiheiearinewntec.ould not have contem-
obsl:rvrdatiPonAsLofMtlEießHSTon°.
which had fallen from other Hon. Members upon the same sub-
ject, they only convinced him of the diffictilty of pleasing all par-
ties. Ha had, however, this consolation, thata person who was
blamed bropposite parties could not be far from the right line.
(Hear!)-13y onehehad
to their interests.formerlybeenaccusAedllolfiteocoomuludelsialyi-
berality to the wounded officers. He was now blamed for not
being sufficiently attentive
in answer to these contradictory charges Nva, that he had en-
deavoured to discharge his public duty to the best of his ability,
and if he consulted his private feelings, he should certainly be
inclined to lean to the side of those meritorious persons. With
reference to the observations of the Hon. Member (Mr. J.
Smith) relative to the stoppage of the pensions for wounds in
certain cases, he could only say, that it was always understood
that as soon as the wound was healed and the officer was re.!
stored to his flintier health, the pension then necessarily ceased.
In no case however did such stoppage take place, until the
party had been examined by the Army Medical Board, and a
certificate of his restoration to his original health had been ob-
tained.
Mr. TR;;3IAVNE was afraid we were very fast losing sight
of the arrangements and regulations of the House in 1821, and
permanent establishment
ntlfiallwaregweeartaenfadsitngapaprrmoxyi.mating to a
After a few observations from Lord PALMERSTON, and in
explanation
the
v ay
nfrfotmh e .31,1
Land
n.
dJ o
Forces
l S
delexcl24uthsivDeeocfelm-nbdeiar,79736:240
177
00
the following Resolutions : 301:1:3,3t.hiaejeNstyoble Lord moved
u p t o
tthh
Officersee 2244 tthholl:litaharercchsh
Staff,
It
off
~- -
The same service and period for Ireland 185,291 13 0
The Charge orthe Land Forces of Great Britain
mhueblic Departments of the Amy inclusive. - ..
- • 1,753,411 0 0
The same service for Ireland - 646,243 18 0 i
-
1 .F,
oofrrr from
The same for Ireland _
24,581 0 0
: 116,470 13 0

rc)r Medicine and officers of that Department £13,270 14 0
The same for Ireland - - - 5,188 17
For the Volunteer Service of Great Britain, 1325 128,000 0 0
For the same service in Ireland - - 19,305 12 40,
For Regiments in India - . . 783.971 8 ,`1
Recruiting in India - . - 27,338 5 '
- 13,139 9 g
For the Royal Military College -
Pay of General Officers not being Colonels 1M,522 16 -
For Garrisons in England -
For the same service in Ireland, -
Full Pay for Retired Officers - -- -
123591', 40890321) 006 111°.
Half Pay and Military Allowances - 800,048 2 ;',
Foreign Half Pay - - - - 109,710 0 ~v
In Pensioners of Chelsea and Kilmainhain 45,972 0 v,
Out Pensioners, Chelsea - . - 1,240,913 21`
Royal Military Asylum - - 24,834 14 " •
Widows' Pensions - - .. 135,369 16 °
Compassionate List - - •
Superannuation Allowances - - - 166,608 13 !),
- 44,305 16 "
Exchequer Fees appertaining thereto - 33,000 0 °
ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
Sir H. HARDINGE rose to propose the Ordnance Esti'
mates, and said he should only detain the House by explaining
the parts where new charges occurred, and briefly explain the
grounds. The observations of the Gallant Member were MO°
during so much confusion in the House that we were unable
to follow his explanations. We collected that the salary of the
the Clerk of the Ordnance had been increased one half of the
difference between the War and Peace Salaries, and that /115
Royal Highness, the Commander-in-chief, had placed at the
disposal of the Master-General a certain number of EnsigncieS
in the line to be given to the Cadets. lie concluded by moving
the first Resolution, for a grant of 48,9481. for the Saltine!
and of the Civil Establishments at the Tower and Pall-Mah•
Mr. CA LCR tFT said that the increase in the salary of the
Clerk of the Ordnance met with his entire approbation.—
From his experience of the duties of the office he knew it Wel
not too much. He also thought that the Duke of York had
done himself great honour by his kind consideration for the
young gentlemen of the Military College. He thought tile
whole Estimate as economical as was consistent with the a'
tent of the service.

The Resolution was then agreed to, and the remaining ones
were put and carried' seriatim without observation.
The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered. W be
received on Monday next.
ASSESSED TAXES BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the'
committal of this Bill pro forma, in order that it should be
printed. He wished to mention one measure of relief which he
had omitted on the night of his statement. It referred to inter"
nally lighted houses—it was to remove from internal lights the
operation of the Window Tax.
Mr. CA LCRAFT begged to call the attention of the Right
Hon. Gentleman to the case of certain poor people in Dorset-
shire, who kept dairies, and used a horse which was not ex-
empted from the tax, although their masters, the farmers, Psi
none for horses used for a similar purpose.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if
the Hon. Member would give him a note of the case, he would
see to its relief.

1110NCK called the attention of the flight Honourable
Gentleman to the case of persons who were charged with the
tax on a groom, for a ragged boy who occasionally cleaned ti
horse or a carriage.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that sue
cases were relieved by the Bill.
The Bill then went through a Committee, and was ordered
to be printed.

SiI.HENnY WILSON, Mr. CROSBY, 311. PPLONYN, andall.
other Hon. Member, were excused for non-attendance at die
callof the House, and the order for their being taken into cos'
Cody dicliarged. _

ANNUAL DUTIES.
Mr. HERMES gave notice, on behalf of the Chancenot d
the Exchequer, that he should on Monday move the annuli
duties.

IRISH JUDIC A TITRE.
Mr. GOULBUItN brought in a Bill to facilitate proceeellnr,
in the Courts of Justice in Ireland, and another to amend t
Grand Jury Presentments Act.—Read a first time.
LAND TAX.
N. HERMES brought in the Land Tax Assessment
Read a first time.—Adjourned to Monday.