The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-20 00:00:00

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yet have great difficulty iu preserving the
tranquility. He knew that this question was tiresome
to Members who had already formed their opinions upon
it; bat the Bill aimed a blow at the constitution
of the country in crippling the rights of
the people, and be the consequences what they
might, he would still persist in opposing it in
every stage. But sooner or later the cause of the Irish
people would triumph. True, they were now
much opposed ; but what great cause had suc-
ceeded without opposition? Look at the Established
Church and the Christian religion. Were they
founded without opposition? No ; but their defenders
bad to put up with the severest persecution before they
succeeded, and so it must ever be; so it had been with
the people of Ireland, but succeed they would and
must eventually. But what rendered this Bill
the more disgusting was that it came
from a Minister who was the descendant of the great
Russell, who perished on the scaffold in defence of the
rights of the people; and the Noble Lord might depend
upon it that the time was fast coming when the contempt
of the people of England for measures of this nature,
and sympathy for the sufferings of the Irish people,
would hurl him from the power he had so long strug-
gled for, and so much abused. He would ask Eogli,h-
men if they would tolerate such a violation of the Con
stitution when universal tranquillity prevailed throughout
the country P He referred to the case of several men who
had been arrested under the powers granted to
the Lord-Lieutenant, and were taken to Belfast,
where they were kept eight weeks without seeing the open
air, and were obliged to associate with thieves and pick-
pockets. They were removed to a prison in Dublin, where
they were subjected to the most strict regulations being
refused to see their friends and to write letters, except
with the permission of the authorities, and
being compelled to fill the most menial offices.
Ireland was not over-populated—the land could sustain
its own people as well as the land of Belgium
maintained its people. The old feudal system,
which they had not bad the manliness to destroy,
was the bane of that country, and until this system were
abolished the corn-laws would be found utterly inopera-
tive. It was true the Irish were hungry and weak, but
the time might come when they would burst their
bonds and take those rights which they now denied
them.' Standing as Irishmen were on the threshold of the
constitution, no man would dare agitate for their rights or
privileges; and would they find the Irish people loyal
after the course pursued? No; for even in the north of
Ireland the people were becoming discontented, when a
rumour went abroad that a national tax would be levied
for the support of the Irish poor. He (Mr. F. O'Connor)
would ask the Noble Lord, after what bad been said by
the Hon. Member for Montrose, whether it was possible
to go on with the condition of Ireland as it now stood? It
was out of the question, and what was now discontent
would turn out, ere long, to be disloyalty. They could no
longer govern the people by the follies and maxims
taught at Harrow, at Westminster, at Oxford, or at Cam-
bridge. They could no longer rule the people by such
means. Public opinion now predominated, and if it were
unfairly checked the most dreadtul consequences would
ensue. He should give the measure every opposition
in his power, and he was not asking too much of Irish
Members when he implored them not to allow themselves
to be humbugged, not to allow themselves to be cajoled
by the Government, or the Noble Lord at its head, but
to give the measure, with him, the most determined re-
sistance. Of the number taken into custody under the
Habeas Corpus Act, six yet remained in prison, and
were now in Kilmainham, after being detained in Belfast
four months without being brought to trial, among cri-
minals of the worst description. If they were disposed
to trample over Ireland, did they suppose that France or
America would permit them; and when they talked of
human misery and of the sufferings of Poland, they
ought to remember that Poland did not loso over a mil-
lion of men by famine. He was always an advocate for
liberty not that liberty which degenerated into licenti-
ousness but gave peace and happiness and prosperity to
the people. In days of yore if such a measure were pro-
Posed there would have been constitutional authorities to
get up and resist it; but the Whigs of the present day
abandoned their former principles, and forgot the maxims
of their ancestors. He would, t ith the pleasure of the
Rouse, read a few extracts.
An HON. MEMBER—No, no, no.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR Who said " No, no?"
Laughter.) If the Hon. Member objected to his read-
ing the opinions of the Noble Lord at the head of the
Government on the English Constitution; of those of
Blackstone, Fox, Bolingbroke, Hallam, &c., then he
Would with great pleasure allow the Hon. Member to
read them for the House. He should not, however, in
any case occupy the House more than six months—(Great
laughter)—six minutes he meant.
Sir GEORGE GREY—You have been already an
hour.

Mr- F. O'CONNOR—If he were an hour it was be-
cause the statement made by the Right Hon. Baronet
himself, in introducing the Bill, Ras so defective and so
erroneous that he bad to correct him. The Hon. Mem-
ber then proceeded to read extracts from Blackstone,
L ord Brougham, Fox, Bolingbruke, and Lord J. Russell;
and in reference to the latter, he implored the House to
contrast Lord John Russell as Prime Minister with Lord
John Russell in his closet, writing an essay on the Eng-
lish consetu •
1 "ri. In the extract from the work of the
Noble Lord, he said that when a conspiracy existed it
:night be wise to imprison a few of the leaders in order
to suppress it, but it never ought to be put in operation
against the people generally, for it would produce the
most lamentable consequences. This measure was not
expedient, said Blackstone, except when the State was
to danger. Now, had it not been declared by everybody
that the real danger had ceased? This was not the
first time that the party now in power had violated the
British Constitution. He hoped that there were some
Saxon blood, some Saxon spirit, in that House, and that
it would not sanction that measure. He had stood up
for this cause, and he believed it to be the cause of
justice, and the cause of justice was the cause of God.
Sir GEORGE GREY apologised for reminding the
Hon. Gentleman of the time he had occupied, but took
the liberty to remind him of the resolution of the House
on that subject, of the expediency of which, if anything
could have convinced him, it was the speech of the Hon.
Member. Expunging all the extracts from his speech,
a very small portion would remain to be answered. It
sufficed to say that this measure was not to be enforced
against the hundreds and thousands of the people of Ire-
land, but only against the leaders of insurrection, and
that was consistent with the most constitutional prin-
ciples. That being so, and the House having, by its
t,otes, in effect expressed its belief that the present occa-
sion, and the state of existing circumstances in Ireland,
called for this measure, he should now simply call upon
tho
House to adhere to its expressed opinions, and vote
for the motion now under consideration.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. E. B. ROCHE said that if they were to have
cercion, what were they to have to make them swallow
that bitter dose? The remedial measures of the present
Ministry might be summed up in this—wait till the po-
tato grows—in the meantime let them tide over their
difficulties. All he could say was, Heaven defend them
from these potato statesmen.—(Laughter.) He sincerely
hoped that Ireland would never again be governed by the
system.—(" Hear, hear," from Lord J. Russell.)
bile thought that that root was mainly at the bottom of
all their difficulties.—(Hear, hear.) Their system of
stnigration, as a measure of regeneration, was perfectly
futile. He looked on all sides of the House, but nothing
Worth acceptance was offered. The Hon. Member for
Montrose (Mr. Hume) said he wished to govern Ire-
land in the best possible manner, but none of the
Irish Members would show him how to do it. As a
Repealer, he might easily answer his question, but
lie would not take advantage of that question. The
Irish Church was one of their greatest grievances.
These repeated measures of coercion were another
grievance. These measures prevented them from rally-
ing against the Church in Ireland, for the maintenance
of which not one Member could rise in that House and
place it upon a rational ground.
The
social
hthe
evils of Ire-
land were greatly gto theinterest
land-
lords had in that House. They
which
endeavoured to bring
the rich soil in Ireland in contact with the poor people,
but that was vain without a sound and sweeping men-
Sure with regard to the tenure of Ireland.—(Hear,
hear.) They never would need a similar measure in
England. That could, therefore, be no objection. He
would stop at the question of landlord and tenant.
There was great room for financial retrenchment.
They had a mock Court ; that Court might benefit
bublin, but what good did it do the country gene.
rally? Look again at the grand Jury Cess. There was
a million and a quarter raised annually of this money
'Pent by these irresponsible men. Although some part
of it Was well spent, thousands were wasted. Were not
these crying grievances
in Ireland? Did they do any-
thing_ to encourage landlords to give leases to their te-
nants in Ireland? When thousands and thousands of
Pounds were being wasted in consequence of the financial
sad other evils he mentioned, had they not a right to
complain? Instead of the present mock Court in Ire-
land, which did but little good, why could not her Mit-
telq Queen Victoria hold her Court in Ireland for a.
-.Guth or more in the year, as might suit her conveni-
Zoneflll He asked why or how it was that all the parties
"" he had alluded, sitting on both sides of the
; -use, sad differing as they did upon every other sub-
should yet all unite for the purpose of
view o
qulpillising Ireland. They never could tran-
rntddle
• 'se Ireland by such means. It was too late, in the
by f the 19th century, to attempt tranquillisation
°reible means Above all, those who sat on the
trneaciuttlrY bench were the very last men who should in-
had such a measure. The Noble Lord (Palmerston)
of n'ece ntly acted in the capacity of a general liberator
Ziebtiti°43,. and aided the repeal of the union between
teal '8 and Sicily. They boasted of being the repro-
heraetives of the principles of Pym and Hampden, and
sin e'°re in consistency they ought to refrain from pas-
Asuch measures.--(Hear, hear.)
eirtUrastJ . HAMILTON gave a short explanation of the
'rod ances under which Mr. Meany was removed
the debtor to the criminal side of Kilmainham gaol,
le_defended the conduct of the Board of Superinten-
tields in that case. He had himself seen Mr. Meany in
yer
comfortable room, with as good a fire as any gen-
-4b1;o Would wish to sit near, and supplied with an
ance of pens, ink, and paper.
it would not have addressed the House, had
nti;i been that the Hon. Member for Nottingham and
;am'
had addressed themselves to a great extent to
Its if
kita. he were an oppressor of Ireland. Now, he
witted that it was strange that he should be found
advenn.-
(He ""ng a suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act—
he
har, hear )—but it was not without reason, for though
rign ad been a steady advocate of the civil and political
:t_t_ of Ireland, it was with regret that he witnessed
re farina
were in vain. He was not in the habit of
hitasle?,?: to Hansard, but he ializht be allowed to views
atea quarter of a century ego, to show the views
Sttnggj I along held on this sq6uestion. In 1824 he
or an equality of civil, religious, and
Political • nuo!1.
corhifdhhtsefeotrthelrre
justiceland, orHe said then that there I
til the contentment in Ireland
dominant Church was abolished, and the

THE

tphooi iut
si caanldpredominancyh
eo f somewhole soefv etnh
co rn
ae 'ohn I t
wi uans d rdeer.l.
stroyed. He then said, also, that want of employ:
mut was one of the great evils of Ireland, and that
bw,a,lsievaebitandtahnsene,
oofughctapnitoatl toinbeththise cca(smenwtrhyi.le thieiree
and believed now, that English legislation. had been the
curse of that country, and that until. justice seas done to
it we should continue to suffer in this. But. if. they could
make those suffer who had caused this mischief it would
be, well, instead of bringing in those who, liko himself,
had not been parties to the injustice. But then he wes•
asked why he supported this Bill?—(Hear, hear.) It
was because he believed that unless there was quiet in
that country no Government could be found who would
bring ix remedial measures; therefore he voted to keep
the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Limerick quiet.—
(Hear, hear.) He found that Irishmen anywhere else
were excellent and active members of society, hut in
Ireland they were the contrary. Whatever tended to
convert them into quiet citizens was a hem fit. What-
ever tended to make such agitators as the Hon. Member,
and some of those near him, silent until the Government
had introduced those measures which were required for
the permanent improvement of the country, was, in his
opinion, a mercy to the Hon. Member and the country;
and therefore he supported the measure, in the hope
that now, when the Irish people were quiet, the Govern-
ment would immediately introduce such measures.
Mr. NAPIER ssid it had not been his ;intention to
take part in the debate, because when he- heard that
there were still seventeen clubs holding their secret
meetings in Dublin, he thought there was a necessity for
the measure, and he believed the Government would net
abuse the powers with which it invested them. But as a
humble representative of the Church of Ireland he felt
bound to take up the challenge of the Hon. Member op-
posite, and to say that on the grounds of antiquity, of
scriptural truth, and of the excellence of its discipline,
that Church possessed pre-eminent claims. It went back
even to the days of St. Patrick himself—(A laugh)—
and, putting out of sight all higher considerations, the
maintenance of that church formed a fundamental article
of the Act of Union, and as long as that Act was held in
force the Church ought to be held inviolate. An addi
tional reason why that Church should be respected was
to be found in the fact that in those districts where it
exercised the greatest influence, loyalty and good order
were prevalent. These were, he thought, good grounds
for his adherence to the national Church of Ireland.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL reminded the Hon. Member who
had just sat down, when he boasted of the loyalty of the
Protestant districts of Ireland, that there was incen-
diarism in Ulster. With respect to the Church of Ire-
land, he must say that the speech seemed exceedingly
inappropriate. The debate was not about the Church of
Ireland. but the Habeas Corpus Act, and for his own
part he could not see the relevancy of the Hon. Gentle.
man's observations. With respect to the speech of the
Hon. Member for Montrose, he gave the Hon. Member
all credit for his past exertions for Ireland, but he could
not congratulate him on his present conduct. He now
said thathe was prepared to take away the liberties of
Ireland, and what was the statesmanlike reason he gave
for that course? Why, to put him (Mr. J. O'Connell)
down. If anything could give him an influence in Ire-
land which at present he did not possess, it would be the
singling of him out, as had been done by the Honourable
Member, for persecution individually. The Honourable
Member said ho wished to remove difficulties out of the
way, and yet he refused the petty grant of 50,0001. to
save destitute Irishmen from starvation. Such was the
course of this friend of Ireland in the past tense.—(Hear,
hear.) With regard to the remarks of the Hon. Mem- ,
ber for Nottingham, he had to complain that that Ho-
nourable Member did not come forward to support
him in his opposition to the Bill when he stood almost
alone. He could, however, assure the Honourable Mem-
ber that it was his intention to resist the third reading,
and if it was carried, he would then support the amend-
ment of the Noble Lord (Nugent), because every day
that could be struck from the duration of the Act would
be a mitigation of the oppression, and an abridgement of
the insult which it inflicted upon Ireland. With respect
to the Act itself he should at that stage refrain from
saying more. It was indeed of little use, after all he
had urged against it, for him to detain the House. He
would merely say, that never was there a more uncon-
stitutional measure brought forward upon more paltry
and indefensible grounds than this Act. During the
sixteen years that he had had the hononr of a seat in
Parliament, he never felt more a slave than on Friday
last, when the vote of 50,000/, was discussed for
the relief of Ireland. Was it not a stain
on :that House, that such a measure should
have taken three nights to be discussed, and that such
foul epithets were applied to Irishmen in the hour
of their need and destitution ? They now had their
Coercion Bill passed, and he asked where was their re-
medial measures ? The 50,0001. grant would soon be
expended, and what then was to be done with the people
of Ireland ? He asked this in the name of Heavea and
of humanity. Let the House earnestly address itself to
the great question of saving the lives of the perishing
people, and they would forget all their past governmen-
tal tyranny and despotism. If they legislated in a spirit
of humanity and justice, they would hear little in future
of a repeal of the Union.
Mr. SHARSIAN CRAWFORD said he had ab-
stained from supporting any of the amendments
proposed at the stages of the Bill, because he be-
lieved that so violent an attack on the constitutional
privileges of the country could not be amended. No
case had been made out to justify the imposition of so
despotic a Bill, and he could not refrain from saying,
that the charge made against the English Radical
party in that House by the Hon. Member for Cork, was
well founded, and had not been repelled by the lion.
Member for Montrose. It was too bad that the rights of
a whole people were to be attacked, from an apprehen-
sion of one individual embarking in an agitation for re-
peal, which could not be carried on to the same extent
that it was years ago.—(Hear, hear.) He opposed the
Bill on principle, as one that could not permanently
tranquillise the country or ameliorate its condition. It
had been said that the province of Ulster was tranquil
because of its Protestantism; but the circumstances of
that district of Ireland should be taken into considera-
tion, and the fact not overlooked that they enjoyed a
fixity of tenure in the soil, and received remuneration
for whatever improvements they effected. He concluded
by moving that the Bill be read a third time that day six
months.

Mr. ANSTEY seconded the motion.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the third reading
Against it 23
Majority for the third reading
The Bill was then read a third time.

-94

On the motion that the Bill do pass,
Lord NUGENT rose to move the amendment of which
he had given notice, namely, to substitute the words
" first of June" for the words " first day of September"
in the first clause. He had voted in favour of this Bill
in its several stages, because he did not consider himself
justified in withholding his vote from a measure of state
necessity such as the Government had declared the pre-
sent to be, but he wished to restrict the operation of
the Act to the Ist of June instead of allowing it to re-
main in force until the Ist of September. During the
ensuing six months Parliament would be sitting and
would be competent to deal with any necessity that
might arise; but he appealed to Hon. Members on all
sides of the House whether it was advisable to prolong
the Act until a period when Parliament having sat six
months would have to deal with so important a question
at the very end of the session. The Government ought
not to call upon Parliament to suspend for a moment
longer than was necessary those statutesw hick more than
any others on the statute-book formed the security for
the rights of the subject. He agreed with the Govern-
ment that what Ireland wanted was repose, but the
House could not look for the re-establishment of a sa-
tisfactory and permanent state of repose under the
operations of the pains and penalties of this measure.
He would shorten the term of the extraordinary powers
demanded by the Government, because he was not
without a suspicion that by so doing the House would
hasten the preparation of the remedial measures which
the Government would bring forward. He entirely
agreed with those who held that the personal character
of the present Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland had nothing
whatever to do with the question then before the House,
and he thought the Government were not taking a high
tone, when they sought to bolster up a measure like that
by pronouncing an eulogium upon the character of Lord
Clarendon. Tee question before the House was one
which involved a highly important principle' and he
hoped that a majority of that House would agree with
him in refusing the powers which the Government now
sought.

Colonel THOMPSON rose to second the amendment,
and in doing so he begged to observe, that those who
supported the Government in the preceding stages of
the Bill were placed in such a position, that they had
no alternative but to vote for the whole measure or else
lie under the suspicion of being disposed to bind the
hands of the Government at a moment of great danger
and uncertainty. With rebellion in Ireland, they could
not adopt any course the tendency of which would be to
weaken the hands of the Executive authority: they
therefore took the course of not restraining the Ministers
of the Crown with regard to those powers which were
necessary for carrying on efficiently the government of
Ireland. But in so voting with the responsible advisers
of the Queen, he, and those who thought with him,
wished to demonstrate that they were anxious not to
permit the Executive to enjoy any power one jot beyond
that which the exigency of the case rendered abso-
lutely necessary. He conceived the powers to be
necessary, and he consented the more readily to
grant them inasmuch as he had confidence in those
to whom such powers were to be intrusted. The
case would he different if authority so extensive
were to be intrusted to men like Jeffreys or Clever-
house, but in the manner in which similar powers had
already been exercised he perceived a strong pledge that
they would in future be moderately used. Still, though
the proceedings of the Government might thus be au-
etnhde r eo
fs hwo uhlidc
hn opte
rbieo
da
limitatione dt
bt
eh
months,rselewnor eas
°ant why
the
the Government might ask for a renewal of the authority
with which this measure invested them, provided they
could then prove, as they now had proved, that there ex-
isted a necessity for such a suspension of the Constitu-
tion. It had been hinted that if the conduct of the
Chartists, or any other body of men, rendered such a
measure necessary for England, he and his friends would
find themselves placed in an embarrassing dilemma. He
believed, that there was little hazard of their being called
upon to contend with any such difficulty; but, i ne-
cessity of that kind arose, he presumed that Hon. Mem-
bers near him would not be unwilling to clothe Govern-
ment with the necessary powers. He thanked God,
however, that no probability existed that any such neces-
sity should speedily arise. But, be that as it might, he
thought upon the present occasion Hon. Members might
fairly be said to support the Government, even though
they should vote in favour of the proposed amendment.,
Sir G. GREY said, he did not understand the force of
many of the observations which he had heard from those
who contended that the operation of the Bill ought to be