The Sun.
London, England, 1825-05-27 00:00:00

itilacebuiplishment.—(Cheers.).---If the Catholics were-to
tell me that they are not anxiousin this question; that they atif
i6differept_to,the,iaatienf it,,they would be the most scandalous
liypoeriteeirrea' thing.-(Hear, hear !)--If they were to tell nie
:on 'their Oaths 'iis" I believe that they reverence that sinc..'
don) that they did;not with for the priiileges of the Constitus
Aim,. I would think them odipus and scandalous
,hypticrites.
And if,they iiioke tine saying e truth, on the other hand,' in sang so,'
they intist'belid subjects 'indeed ; fbr what could be worse
than to see five milliona of people living under -a Constitution,
to the privilegel,of which they were indifferent.—(Cheers.)--
They must be, indeed, the basest'of the human race—they must
.be predestinated slaves,--to feel nothing but indifference to such
blessings; and nAsnedituri Lasuited to such beings but the calm
of absohite subjection.".—(CheersThat this question then
must he decided soon, and that, by its aecOMpliihment, lie en,
tertained no doubt whatever. When, then, he was asked, why
entertaining such Opinions he consented to continue to remain
in a divided Government, he :should ask, in turn, would the
retirement of those who were friendly to the question assist or
retard its , progress? Ile unequivocally said it would be
an injury.' It would 'postpone the accomplishment 'of the
measure, to an indefinite time ; it would be the signal
for a flame in Ireland; Wl:ailing that country into a state of
.commotion, which those who railed it might fruitlessly attempt
,to allay. He was bound tlien 'to remain as he was. He
could do n 4 good by the opposite, course. His „Hight. /fon.
.Friend said, that it he, thought his retirement' from office would
serve" the he viould'not Continue in Office. He (Mr. P.)
could only say, that he,had been tried before, and when he had
the chance of continuing in Office, whenthe remaining in it firer-
boreconaic.lerationa- of conscience and consistency, he had no
hesitation in relinquishing that office. Thejtight Hod.' Gen-
tleman then referred to some supposed Observations.whieh had
been: attrihnted by the Hon: and Learned Member (Mr.
-Brougham) to a high individual in another place, npon his.
(Mr; I'.'s) conduct: He had the pleasure to'state, 'that he had
had a personal conversation with that Noble Person 'and the
result was, his (Mr. P.'s) mind hadbeen completely relieved by
the assurance that nothing offensive had been intended. In
conclusion, the Right Hon: Gentleman tiakt, be' thought that
he was consulting the interest:;' of the cause itself in remaining
in the Government rather than in retiring, and said that he saw
no benefit to be derived from agreeing to the motion of his Hon.
Friend.—(Hear, hear !)
Mrs BROUGHA3I explained.
Mr- CANNING said that the disclaimer alluded to by his
Hon. Friend the Attorney-General for Ireland,'aplied no less
to•the Hon. MeMber for Winehelsea than 'to the lion. Gen(le:.
man who had first mentioned it. For the question of the reso-
lution, he hoped to induce the, nei-tumble:Member for Lime-
rick 'not to press it; but, after all that'hiut passed; it was im-
possible for him to sit down without troubling the House 'with
a few words. With respect to the.reference which had been
made to divided Governments, he had never meant to say that
it would not have heen desirable to Constitute an administra-
tion unanimous; but there was a wide difference, and such a
difference as no wise, and_perhaps he.might sayhonest, mao
could fait to see, between the question of forming a new
Guvernment; 'and of dissOlting one which was already' in
eXiatence: ' He was perfectly ready to concur with, his' Hon.
Friend the, Chancellor of the Exchequer; and he sabb—with
tho most perfect-sincerity of heart—that Wire thonghtbis relin-
quislinient of Officei-COuld COndtice td the settlement of the Ca-
tholic question, he not hesitate one moment to make the
sacrifice. , Not-that when he made this declaration he did not
see-without meaning to over.:rate„ any advantage contingent
upon his cOntinuance—Ahat' his witlidravritig himself front the
Government would be attended with some public disadvantage;
but his view would such a course could decide the sub.
ject of Catholic claims—that the public good obtained out-
weighed that disadvantage; But his opinion was (and he
should frankly state it) founded upon recent and most anxious
deliberation, that his relinquishment of office at present could
Only serve to bring on public evils of the most treMendous cha-
racter, as Well as to throw the prospects of the object which it
was intended to serve still further back than ever. The lion.
and Learned Member opposite had observed, that he (lid not
fully understand the reasons which had- been used by an Hon.
Friend nrar him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer); nor could
lie himself perhaps (Mr. Canning) expect,, standing where lie
did, that he should be able to snake himself quite intelligible to
the Hon. and Learned 111-ember.' All he could say was this—it
was not likely that he should venture to matte an assertion which
was untrue beforea great number of persons who would have
the means of judging of its truth; and he did say, standing
under those circumstances, that he was convinced that the'
course recotumended to him by the Hon:Member for Winchel.,
sea
,would .be , fraught with nothing else than calamity to the
country. This only he would add more, that he held himself as
perfectly. at 'liberty to discuss the subject in question in the Ca-
binet as any other; but,-at die same. time, be reserved to him-
self the discretion of using that liberty at such times as he thought
most expedient. With respect to the Catholic question, in its
present extraoidihary position, he- felt almost difficult), about
.stating, his opinion ; because, whatever be said, he was liable
to one .of two accusations: If he said that lie thought the
question was not so forward in the opinions of the country as he
could wish' it to be, then he ahoull be charged with risking the
creation of the evil which lie deprecated : it' lie stated confident-
ly that he thought it had made great progress, then he should be
told 'that he 'excited hopes, which -7circurnstances afterwards
would not be capable to realize..-T, In, such a dilemma, he knew
but one course, which, was to speak .the- direct truth according
to the 'best of his judgthent, let the consequence . be what it
inignt: At the Commencement of the present session, he had
said theminds of the people ofTingland were not matured for
the measure. This had been denied.; and different minds. no
tipubt, would draw different conclusions ; hut, from all that
had happened during the. Seseion, his opinion remained'un.
changed. At /he same .time,
.however, when -he. said this, he
did not believe that fit the higher- and more enlightened
daises, of gocietKgreafprogress lied been made, and lie believed

. _
that the resistance generally was passive rathei than active;
and that,. when it bad been goaded ,into violent motion, it
was sonic of the friends of.the cause generally who were to be
thanked for that -result. But; although this he.tooluto have been

. .
thestateof things.at . the commencement of the present session,
'yet he- believed now that. that state was -somethinkaltered ; and
that, if' the feeling of' the country had to be again excited on
the question, it would pronounce itself in a very different way
'from that which it had. done a few weeks since. But, whatever
was the fact as to England, in Ireland the difference which ma-
nifested itself was most striking. Thatmeastire, which had ap-
peared originally almost in the shape of an appeal by one part of
the population against another part, came now forward almost
without dissent from any, and bid fair shortly to be recomm ended
by all. Then such being his view of the state of Ireland, he did
think that the question must make its way. If any thing could re..
card it, it must be an expression of violence on the part of Ireland,
and, still more, arraying England in its present temper against
Ireland in that temper which lie deprecated. 'For, as far
as his opinion went, be, had always ;Advocated the Catholic
measure, not as an exclusively Irish onejaut as one which was
to serve the interests, and 'knit together _the affections, Of the
two countries.' The ground on which the bill was resisted, he
hadno hesitation to Say, he thought untenable. If the argu-
ment proved any thing, it proved too much—if Catholics could
not be good subjects under a Protestant Government, they could
not be good subjects at all. Besides, he did not like that argument
of " divided allegiance," or measuring men by a scale as it were
of moral geometry. If had but half the allegiance of the Ca-
tholics, why•wits it we had but half ? }homer answered the quest.
tion, who was better judge of human nature than Euclid : ".A
man," he said, "is but half a man, unless he enjoys all his
rights." In glancing, however, at what had passed in another
place, he was bound to vindicate one Noble Friend of his front
the charges which had. been thrown out against hint by the
Hon. and Learned Member opposite. He did this, not from a
particular knowledge of the individual,.but from a knowledge;
1
of his general character. He rejected the suggestion of the.
Hon. and Learned Gentleman as impossible. The lion. Ment-
tier for Winchelsea seemed to think —a consideration which
had given him (Mr. Canning) some pain—that the speech of
that Noble Lord to whom he alluded had been measured after
another speech which he had designated as a libel—measured,
to fall in with it. Ills Noble Friend he would tell the House
and the Honourable Member this—was— incapable of such a
thought or act. If there Ina a man in- England who would not
suit his opinion to the view of any human England who
his • Noble
Friend was that man. Whatever he had spoken was let the House
be sure, his sincere opinion...an opinion from which he (Mr.
Canning) might dissent, but to the candour-of
which
he paid
the most implicit homage. Indeed, if the Hon Member for
Winclielseti had only" looked to the whole contents of the
speech in question, he would have seen the most glaring, the
-
most perfect , discrepancies between it and the speech to which
he endeavours to assimilate it. Who, among all the persons
- oath to the- removal of civil disabi-
lities, who had spoken'on'the subjett—who had disposed so uncere-
moniously, yet so satistitctorily, of the idle objection
Coronation
nvaetri7Noble laird,, who was represented • •
the tone of, a speech in which the. objection Of that.
as MIL.
itliftriienst
gl: the
Coronation oath formed the chief feature ? That Noble Lord,
hsea yi
felt
no moreunwilling
rather than to obloquy, was. entitled to the highest gratitude
of the Catholics.,•and to their highest acknowledgment; and
if. he WitS
tion, it was
considered forbidden ground The •
what might be . Right Ho-
eluded by •
cobntecaentu::
nourable Gentleman c°l2a
few sing, that
if he could
sUm up his feelings 'ti
_t
old not words,undervalue (andpethaps the Ho-
nourable Member wo his feelings), he could
production of the papers for which ' he
assure him that. the his dOncluil
called would utterly falsify _ _ on.--(Hearg hear !)--
Sir
,TT considered- the speech of the Nobl - Lord
Sit F. BURMA h h had hrd e
extraordinary t-at e ever ea •It had Produced.
the most extraorca
sucho see him f
a surpnsing effect in the con come inward, and
•me with uncompromising violence of
that, for the first ti 9
di '