The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-05 00:00:00

2,0001. for the National Vaccine Establishment.
2,000/. for the Rortige for the Destitute. lief
A vote of 8,900/. Laving been proposed for the re
of Polish and Spanish refugees,
Mr. REL'TON said he thought it was time for
them to put an end to these Polish grants. He trusted
he would be supported in his opposition to the vote by
those gentlemen who had of late raised so great a crf
throughout the country in favour of financial referiji
It was unneeessary for Lira to remind the Corn mitt° the
the prominent part which the Poles had tale en la
revolutionary movements on the Continent during 'Pd
last twelve months; in all those movements they heo
been prominent and distinguished actors—(" Hear, hear
from some Honourable Member on the Ministerial 51d, r
of the Howe.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite might ehee„
that statement; but he should remind them that thenL 0
"
might be a difference of opinion as to the value of the
notoriety which had thus been secured. He did new
however, wish to say a word against the Poles in this
country who were the recipients of that grant. Ile bed
lieved that many of them were very excellent met]; `"if
one of them, a nobleman who had distinguished hiel7,l
by his exertions for the relief of distress in the I'!'i
country, was universally respected. But he cetta'!',,ig
thought that the Committee ought to insist on receito
some information as to who were the recipients of tAu...
grant, and what was the mode in which it was
tributed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEB ;sai d
that a considerable revision of the list of the recillbe
of that grant had taken place since last year'
names of some of the parties had been struck out; othe
re
had resigned; and to a third class it bad been arratigar7,
that no relief should be given beyond the present Yet,g
The estimate of the grants to the Polish refugeeero
year had been $,7001.; this year, it was 7,3901; aeouq3l,
the expiration of this year it would be reduced to
He trusted the Committee would not withdraw the P.-0,
rosed maintenance from parties who, if they were netdif,
relieved, would necessarily becomo chargeable to the
ferent parishes as casual poor.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to know if vacancies
in the list were filled up ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rePli‘a
that they were not.

The vote was then agreed to. tatli
A sum of 6,423/. having been proposed for rrOtes 14
Dissenters, and other miscellaneous allowances, forte°
payable out of the civil list.
;
Mr. C. LUSHINGTON said he had given notice et 0
the commencement of the session that be should oag0
le
any renewal of the reyiurn donum. He found that wb
the grant had been proposed last year a very strong Ile
position had been made to it, both out of doors Who
that House. But he was surprised to perceive te`a
during the present session the Dissenters had obser,v,aes
complete silence upon that subject. Last year petttg.s,
had been presented from most influential bodies of mita
seaters against a continuance of the grant; but this );ems
there had been but one solitary petition to that ne
from one obscure village in Derbyshire. Under Oleo
circumstances he felt very much puzzled what course,
adopt. He believed, however, on giving his best coero'l,
deration to the matter, that he should be acting roll
perly in opposing a grant to the dissenting body to VP
they had themselves ceased to object.
514
Mr. WYLD said he understood that the sum of /0
which was proposed in that vote for Protestant Thssetio
ters, was not the regium donum, although it was s $OO
for the same purpose. 11e believed the Dissenters W.,1,/
as much oppposed as ever to the grant, and that the ef‘t
reason they had not continued to petition against it ;0
that they saw very little use in addressing their pr0„0
to that House. He found by a Parliamentary retied
that the sum voted under this head, and distribede,
amongst the clergymen of three denominations--113re
0
pendents, Presbyterians, and Baptists, did not give
eh
than 225. for each. What substantial relief could Ow
assistance afford? The Dissenters of England re Pod
diated the grant, over which they had no control, 04
he hoped the Noble Lord at the head of the Goveroe3e,•
if he would not consent to abandon it on the present,
casion, would give a pledge that this insult to the utia
renting body would be discontinued. If not, he °II°
feel compelled to divide the Committee, e of
Lord J. RUSSELL could certainly give no pleuA gibe
the kind. So fax from this grant being forced ell ere
Dissenters, the applications,for assistance from it whaj
numerous, and it was distributed by Dr. Rees and abed
of great respectability as a matter of charity. ;of
been given ever since the time of George I.; first oil se
the civil list, and subsequently by Parliaments tot
could not, therefore, give any promise that the gr
would be withdrawn.
e'
Mr. B. SMITH wished to know whether the G e tee
vernmetst had any objection to furnish a list
recipients ?
fidrd
Mr. WYLD expressed his regret that the Noble et
should persevere in refusing to remove this stigma fro tto
the dissenting body, „who had always regarded tee
tee
Noble Lord with the most sincere respect. Could tjott
Noble Lord point to a single dissenting eongreg-a to.
which would acknowledge that any of its ministers
ceived relief from this grant? The recipients were:, to
to be found among the three classes of Disseate" seise
which he had referred. The Wesleyans did not reee
one farthing of it.
Mr. BRIGHT said that nothing could be more er,ro(r.
neous than the inference that because no petitions ;Jett
been presented, therefore the opinions of the Diseellbtal
had relaxed on the subject of the grant. TheY
euld
made a considerable effort last year, and probably vld to
make another two or three years hence. With regarb; it
furnishing the names of the recipients, he thong to
most unconstitutional that thou,ands of the Post
money should be distributed amongst persons of Whed,
they knew nothing. Until the names were furni°Roe
he for one would never believe that a thousand DisEeip
ing ministers ht,d received relief from this source. Jo
could promise the Noble Lord that the first list would t 9
the last; for either the parties would bo deterred 1%,
apps} ing again by the force of public opinion, or the up
sensing bodies to which they belonged would make or
whatever might be necessary to maintain them in ett to
dependent and honourable position.
sop Mr. W. J. FOX said this was perhaps the only
of
in the estimates which was opposed by its nominal r it
piente. If the money must be granted, at all event:tsel
ought to be placed in the hands of those who represFf
the dissenting bodies for whose benefit it professed %to
The present modo of distribution was peculiarly Woe
abuse, of which instances were within his owriskfrieg
ledge. It was at all times made the means of confer 00'
undue influence on certain individuals, and was 11° re
frequently used for the promotion of political ends. ell
sides this, it was a violation of a principle to whicareet,
dissenters were firmly attached—namely, that 1)0 Pon 01
of public money ought to be made for the proreett
any particular system of theology. "osto
Mr. KEIISHAW said he had taken some Pttl,
ascertain the parties amongst whom this grant Wan
tributad, but without success; and the conclusienicsa
therefore forced upon him that it must either be to
to unworthy objects, or to individuals not belonght:ek
the dissenting ministry at all. With regard to t ittelf
leged alteration in the feelings of the dissenters, l
beQo
that since last year very strong resolutions had
passed by those bodies against the grant. t°
Lord J. RUSSELL certainly did not think it rig et°
give the names of those amongst whom the money er fat
distributed; for he agreed with the Hon. Meo3,bci if
Manchester in thinking that to publish them won Witb
put a speedy end to the list. It would be the san3-„ toes
persons of any denomination to whom alms were gu 54,
If to any of these it were said —"I will give )1014
but I will publish your name in the votes of the
dole
of Commons," who would accept the boon? 11,e 04°',
that the distribution of the money was made suese:sllol
to political purposes, or for the purpose of estab.l9 eu
any sort of connexion between the dissenting hedsleesor
the state, or, indeed, for any objects whatever I,
those of charity.
011
Mr. BRIGHT still objected to this hocus pools teed
of system, under which no one could tell how the be
was distributed. The Noble Lord said it wollitikut be
pity to expose the parties who participated in it;
,"
oypo
seemed to forget that he was not dealing with 10) If
money, but with that of the public.—(Hear,
the Noble Lord chose to give 51. to the Church of tic°
land, or any other church, every day, he had no ole it
to it; but he had the greatest objection to his takitill',"
from those funds of which the Chancellor of toe:ere
chequer was the trustee for the nation, and which.; o°
with difficulty taised by taxes on the comtnunitJA' tie
whom they often pressed with great inequality sto"
justice. If the Noble Lord was as much a DissenteDreto
he used to be—(Laughter)—be believed the Noble sett
used to attend a dissenting chapel until Hon. Gel3tl:i the
opposite put a stop to it—(Cheers and laughter)l tJ3°,
Noble Lord knew as well as he (Mr. Bright) diaot
feeling of Dissenters, he would be aware thet a gr"
this kind was not in accordance with their policY.
The Committee divided, when there appeared--
For the vote
For the amendment 33
Majority
The vote was then agreed to, as were also--
1,000/. for the Dublin Fever Hospital.
12,093/. for the House of Industry, Dublin.
„,ititee,
On the vote of 800 t for the Female Orphan .115.7
Mr. FAGAN complained that the vote was 01)00°'
distributed among the female orphan children of e°,',
The children received in the asylum were edlleahitare;
elusively in the Established religion, and when e to Oa
of the Roman Catholic religion were brought irlio th;
institution, he knew that they were brought uP, toe
religion of the Established Church. He contendsor
the Roman Catholic population wore entitled to !to the
i
in the grant, and he should feel it his duty to divivrieo:
Committee on the grant, unless his Right Hon. 'roe:
the Secretary for Ireland would give him some assu.airetv
that the Catholic orphans of Ireland would Parld- s
in the grant.
, sf°;
Sir W. SOMERVILLE admitted that the Yc"a
sets
mof an exclusicharacter. It had been voted for ol
long time, and was in the course of annual dedllc
and it would be a great hardship to discoutirl-
e
o
suddenly.
t
Major BLACIcALL said the institution was 11°- tea 11";
ported exclusively by a grant from the Gov:run:lv
th re wss a large sum sulmctibed for its support.i 001
Mr. FAGAN hoped some hope would be
that the grant would be increased in the way
suggested. edr
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEn,
on the contrary, that the vote would be arlutlall e•
duced.

The vote was then agreed to, as were also
2,250/. for the Lock Hospital, Dublin.
800/. for the Lying-in Hospital.
1,500/. for Steven's Hospital, Dublin.
3,800/. for the Cork-street Fever Hospital.
5004 for the Hospital of Incurables.
sccedit
On the vote of 37,1831. for non-conforming, .„
and Protestant dissenting ministers in Ireland, A tliP
Mr. TRELAWNY said if the House sanctioo"riesto
vote, they ought to go a step further and pay thelielo
of Ireland. The vote was clearly not one of rely pot
principles; but it was a questiou whether it Nv°,ll ioace
be advisable to make some effort to secure the al,por
of the priests, as the friends of order in Ireland'