The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-06 00:00:00

sical force, in order to restrain the House from exercising its
undoubted deliberative rights. The speeches too held out
delusive hopes to Ino,ooo enraged and agitated . men,
excited by these hopes to petition tile House of Lords under
the intimitidtion of physidal force.. ife (lid believe
that the country was anxiously looking for Reform—;
(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial Bench)—he ad-
mitted it—(Hear, hear)—and was Witting to go
along with them so far as he could with safety to the in-
stitutions of the country. But from all he was able to learn,
he believed that in this town and district, as far 'as the
present Bill was concerned, if not a universal, there
Was yet a great shrinking from the results that might
follow its passing into a law.
The LORD CHANCELLOR could not permit what
bad been said to pass respecting the petition which
he hid presented from Birmingham, without making a
few observations as to the convenience of the course
of proceeding adopted by the Noble Lord who had just
!at down. He had had an opportunity already of deliver-
ing his sentiments upon the Bill. He had been heard at
great length—fully, and with his characteristic frankness,
he had exhausted all he had to say, as reasons aglinst the
pressing of the proposed measure. He had been answere
vho might not be? by other speakers, and to the Ccor
non, f 4 of speakers ya L --'• - . y leiu
bat urs,,t to, s,v, ,peech had come to an end.—
laughter.) Though it bad come to an em,
txtened. and able as it was, what did the Noble Lord
do? Did he wait till a future stage of the measure? Did
he *delay it till a future opportunity? No—but under
.—he (the Noble and Learned Lord) would not say
a pretext, but under the form of presenting a petition to-
night, he made a second speech upon the Bill.--(Hear,
hear frota the Opposition side of the House.) The Noble
and Ltarned Lord heard it re-echoed by an illustrious

Duke,
Thi Duke of CUMBERLAND certainly did not re-
echo nything, nor open his lips.
Tie LORD CHANCELLOR then would take for granted

that i bad been re-echoed by some Noble Lord or Noble
Lords and lie perfectly acceded to the cheer and adopted the
princple, because, if at a future time he should find it expe-
dientto adopt the practice of the Noble Lord, he should
eertsnly claim the privilege of doing so. With respect to the
teeing at which the Noble Lord himself had declared
150000 persons had assembled, the House of Lords
was to condemn the whole because a part of those
assenbled on that occasion, or one individual, forsooth,
had used extremely intemperate language- If this
wen to be the case, what was to be said of the House of
Loris, when last night in the course of the debate, lan.
guaie grossly intemperate—language which violated
every principle of law—language which held out
three not merely of sedition, but of something very like
it peal felony—(lmmense cheers from the Ministerial
sidel—had been used within the walls of that House.
Whoa such language was to be adopted in that House.
he 'the Noble and Learned Lord) protested against
inipmations of unconstitutional proceedings attending what
took ?lace at Birmingham, because it was said that one
individual had spoken intemperately. It was more
fair towards those honest men whose petition the Noble and
Learned Lord presented to the House last night, to
judge of them by their own acts, than by the strain
of asy speaker who might address the House. The
very last act of that assembly, consisting of thousands
and tens of thousands, was to come to an unanimous
resolution not to pay taxes, and devoutly to pray for
a blessing on the head of their august Sovereign. He
would not follow his Noble Friend through his other
observations respecting. the feeling of the B ind-street and
SL James's-street shopkeepers, as probably before the Noble
Lord was five minutes older than he really was,
he would hear petitions presented from the inhabitants of
these streets—(Hear, and much cheering)—and if the
Noble Lord would only name a few other streets
And places, probably by to-morrow petitions would he
poured in from those identical places in favour of the mea-
Sure. without any being forthcoming against it. —(Cheers.)
crime, 'if it were one, upon a whole body for the
intemperance of which one individual had been
guilty, and instanced the case of the Catholic ques
tion when similar language was held, but which did
not deter the Noble Duke at the bead of his Ma-
jesty's Government from bringing in the Bill. He
deprecated the useless occupation of their Lordships' time
by thus bringing on discussions respecting the general
question, on the presentation of petitions. The Noble
Lord opposite denied that that general feeling pre-
vailed with regard to the present Bill which other
peoople entertained, but he did not deny the necessity of
some Reform. He (Lord Grey), however, believed that a
more general sentiment prevailed now as to this measure
than had prevailed since its introduction. The Noble
Ertl contended that the petition presented by the Noble
Lord opposite signed by 800 persons could not
speak the sentiments of the wealth and commerce of so great
a commercial city, and contrasted it with the petition from
the city of London, which he had already presented, signed
by 4,700 persons. There was also in the petitions now
before the House sufficient evidence that many yn.-
sons who would not previously acknowledge those opinions
had much altered their tone—(Cheers) —and shown an
inclination to acquiesce in some measure of Reform.—
(Hear, eahra,d been hear, ha
r, The Noble Earl next said that
h
ner.)
misunderstood in what he bad stated
regarding any proposed alterations in the Reform Bill,
he had never stated that he would admit of no
alterations whatever, but that he would not admit
of any alterations affecting its efficacy, and also
that if it were rejected, he never would pro-
pose one less efficient. But any alterations of the
Bill would depend upon their Lordships, and as the Noble
Lord admitted the necessity for Reform, he should allow
it to go into Committee, and there propose his alterations.
Many Noble Peers opposed this Bill who assented to the dis-
franchisement of boroughs gone to decay, assented to the
principle of transferring the franchise for large towns, and
the extension of franchise in counties. Why that was
the very principle of the Bill.—(Loud cheers.) The
rest was but a question of degree. If however in
the Committee they should propose alterations inconsistent
with the principles of the Bill, and make it a delusion on
the people, be was determined to oppose them.—(Cheers.)
The Earl of HADDINGTON said, tbat the Lord
Chancellor had read a lecture to his Noble Friend for
making a speech in answer to the debate on the Reform
Bill, but be (Lord Haddington) thought that the Noble
Earl who had just sat down had been doing exactly the
same thing.—(Hear, bear.) With respect to the ques-
tion brought before the House by his Noble Friend (Lord
ViTharnchffe) be thought that the blouse had a right to
a'ouplain that threats had been held out, and that they
were not to be allowed to judge of the Bill on its own
merits.—(Hear, hear.) He believed, that although there
was a general feeling in favour of Reform, there were also
great' apprehensions as to the result, should the Bill pass
into a law.—(Hear, hear.)

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM begged to recall their
Lordships to the question of the Birmingham petition.
He agreed with the Noble and Learned L Id that the sins
of the few were nut to be visited on the many; and it was
matter of congratulation to him to hear that Noble and
Learned Lord state that what had been read by the Noble
Baron was only the language of a single individual ; and
he would never believe, until he actually saw it, that any
body of Englishmen could be seduced by a demagogue to
set themselves in opposition to the institutions of the
country. Burt he, nevertheless begged the Noble Earl to
take warning by what had taken place at Birmingham, and
to recollect that this language had not been held at a com-
mon meeting, but a Political Union, which the Noble Earl
had himself acknowledged—(Cheers)—and with which
lie had himself corresponded.—(Cheers.) With respect
to what had fallen from the Noble Eai 1 on Monday night,
he (the Duke) had taken a note of them, and they were—
,.Your Lordships must take this Bill"—upon which there
were cheers on this side of the House, after which the
Nt-ble Earl went on—" your Lordships must take this
Bill, or some other measure more dangerous, which you
may not be able to resist."—(Cheers from the Minis-
terial side.)
Lord PLUNKETT did not see there was anything in
the words just quoted by the Noble Duke calculated to call
for reprehension. What his Noble Friend had stated was
a matter of opinion ; and, as far as that opinion went, he
must say that lie entirely agreed with his Noble Friend.—
(Cheers)—and he believed that any one acquainted with
the consequences of rejecting a measure safe, just, and rea-
lsonable, must feel that there would be a demand on the
part of the people for something that would be unsafe, un-
just, and unreasonable.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to
‘ghat had taken place at Birmingham, he agreed that the