The Sun.
London, England, 1838-03-08 00:00:00

law introduced, by what test was he try it? It could net be
,by mere
expediency, upon which every mind might di,,2r, but ey re- i
*sating to the test of the Holy Scriptures themselves. He could
not but consider it unjust to be called on to support others who *Vie '
L.iette Dissenterser able to support themselves than he was to render assistance.
h
beet their own places of worship, anti Maintained their
ern pastors.—(Cheers.) It was an aggression on the rights of cotl-
ecience and religious liberty, to lie compelled to support that which they
conscientiously held to be inconsistent with the word of Cod.—(Cheers.)
Religious freedom consisted, first, in freedom frorn constraint, in main.
taining and propagating our religious °Onions; second, in the abecitlet
of all restraint, as to the worship cf God, according to the dictates of
eeir own conscience; and, thirdly, in the absenee of all compulsion,
to contribute in every manner to the support of that which they
held not to be conformable to the dictates of troth,—(Cheers.`
They held this endowment to be unnecessary. For in the first place,
there were 40,000 sittings unlet and unoccupied in the Churches and
Chapels of Edinburgh and Glasgow. It was a remarkable Fitt that the
majority of these unoccupied sittings were those appropriated to the
poor.--(Hear, hear.) Building Churches was not filling theme—
(Cheers.) The causes of the non-occupation of these places of warship
Were morel and spiritual ciuses, which would operate aa, powerfully,
were Churches indefinitely increased.—(Cheers,) The most efficient
means of religious improvement among the purer classes wolltil
be found in an active system of domiciliary visitation, for
the purposes of mercy, on the principles of Christian Instruction
Societies, and City }fissions.—(Cheers) They opposed these endow.
mein% further, because they were uncharitable. The returns which
have been published by the Church party, were many of them unfair.
In those tables the Dissenters had been omitted, which was unchscit_
able, unbrotherly, unfriendly, and unchristian.--(Hear, hear.) They
would not claim the superiority, but they would not allow them-
dye, to be classed as inferior to their brethren of the Establish-
ment.-- (Cries of " Hear, hear.") There was one point, respect-
ing the location of the new churches of the Establishment, which
had been alluded to. Instead of building them where Christian In-
struction was wanted, they had been set up in places where the Dissen-
ters were already established.—(Hear, hear.) He would not impute
unworthy motives to others, but he could not help thinking that there
weee mingled motives.— (Hear, hear.) The power of persecution by the
)word was done away with, and the power of the purse was now to be
tried--(Cheers.) He was gratified at the sympathy expressed by the
people of London. It was true that the people of Scotland had sym-
pathised with England on the question of Church-rates, and he was per-
fectly sure that neither would cease until they could do no more.—
(Cheers.) The cause was the same on both sides of the Tweed. If the
object of the Church of Scotland could be attained, it would be used as a
precedent not only in England, but in Ireland also.—(Great cheering
for some minutes.) He was opposed to all endowments.—(Cheers.)
The root of all the evils, and of all the bitterness complained of in the
United Kingdom, was the alliance of the secular with the anti-secular
in the union of Church and State—(Renewed cheers.) He looked
upon that union as the heaviest curse that had fallen on the Church
of Christ since its foundation, and he believed that there would never
be either permanent peace to the State, or prosperity to the Church,
until the leond of that unhallowed union was severed entirely and for
over.—(The Rev. Gentleman concluded amidst very great cheering.)
The Rev. Mr. Brerete rose to order, He hoped these proceedings
Would be conducted in a religious and becoming manner.— (Hear.)
The CHAIRMAN said it Was not surprising that, when a doctrine was
propounded to the meeting which was consonant to their feelings and
opinions, they should give these demonstrations:of satisfaction ; but, at
the same time he agreed with his Rev. Friend that this partook of the
character of a religious meeting, and he therefore hoped their exulta-
tion v:ould be tempered with moderation.—(Hear, hear.)
The Rev. Dr. Hetseit, of Glasgow, then presented himself to the meet-
ing, and was received with loud cheers. He said that the objects of the
bodies whose interests the deputation represented had already been so
well stated bythe Chairman and by the speaker who had just sat down,that it
was not necessary for him to dwell on the topics which they had
touched. The objects of this meeting were no doubt displeasing to
some persons who were in that room, and they were likely to prove
still more offensive to many who were outside it.—([tear, hear, and
cheers.) It would undoubtedly give offence to many that they should
endeavour to prevent some good man from obtaining the small sum
which they required—(Hear, bear, and laughter)—in a word, to pre-
vent Church extension among their own countrymen and in their own
land. Now a few words of explanation frequently removed much
dissatisfaction. It was said they were opposing the Church of Christ.
Now he would just draw the distinction by a single particle. They
admitted that the Church of Scotland was a Church of Christ,
but they denied that it was the Church.—(Hear, hear, hear.) They
bad no more hesitated to oppose a Church which was wrong
than they would to oppose an individual who was wrong.— (Hear, hear,
and cheers.) They did not prevent those men from getting that which
was by right theirs; they only prevented them from putting their hands
into their pockets. They were the real ex clusionists. The Dissenters
wiked for no favour—no State support for themselves. He was afraid
there might be an appearance to some persons' minds that they were
really hostile to the extension of Christian knowledge throughout the
land, in consequence of their opposition to these additional en-
dowments. lie was not going into statistics—the Chairman
bad done so—his Reverend Friend who had preceded him had
clone so—and he believed another Reverend Friend would enter yet
snore fully into that ; but he would take upon himself to say, that when
he found the Dissenters of Glasgow alone supplied 48,000 persons with
chapels and religious instruction, whereas the Kirk, with all her en-
dowments, had not exceeded 36,000—when it was known how much the
Dissenters did—and he did not mean to say they did all they could, all
they should, or all they would—when it was known what they
really did in extending the means of instruction, both in their
oen and foreign lands, no candid Churchman with those facts
before him could justly impute to them a desire to resist the
diffbsion of religious instruction. They, however, opposed those
claims, because they thought them unnecessary. A prima facie
view of the case would prove them to be unnecessary. The Dissenters
were comparatively poor—the Church of Scotland was comparatively
rich; the Dissenters had no difficulty in supporting themselves; how
then could the Church have—the Church that was supplied already
Was it intended to give a bonus to them for the purpose of sharing
their own cash—a bonus for neglecting to do their own work—for ne-
glecting to avail themselves of their own privilege, not discharging their
own onus, and not enjoying their own happiness ? As an experiment of
what the voluntary system would do it had been welt tried—it had been
tried in every locality, and amongst every class throughout the land. It was
said that endowments were wanted in great towns,but the Dissent proved
they were not. It was said they were wanted in parishes ; the Dissent
proved they were not, It was said that theywere wanted in thellighlands_
the multiplicity of churches in the remotest parts of the Highlands, and
their liberal contributions to the spread of Christianity, showed that
that was not so. But they took their stand mainly upon principles.
What those principles were it was not incumbent on him to dwell
ueon, but their principles were grounded on religion and justice.—
(Hear, hear.) Not only since they came here, but before, had they
been surprised when they gave their statement to highly gifted
persons to find them state—" Why, those are principles I" and to such
an extent did they consider their statements to be principles, that they
thought them sufficient to demolish their cause ! Now, lie considered
their principles to be their strengh.—(Hear, hear.) Take those from
them, and what were they ? Their movement without principle would
subject them to be considered a faction—a faction which the sooner
it was broken up the better.—(Cheers.) They regarded their prin-
ciples as the pillars of their cause—as the pledge of their sure
and certain ultimate success. Only convince them that it accorded with
the will of Christ that a Church should hang upon the bounty of the
State for its support—only satisfy them that the State did no more than
what it ought to do when it entered into the sacred chamber of con-
science, and there dictated what they believed only should proceed
from the mouth of the Lord of conscience—tell them that no
injustice was-done when one party was lifted up and another depressed,
and then they would befound not protesting against, but coming forward
in support of assistance to the Church of Scotland.—(Loud cheers.)
Legislation without principle was like a labyrinth without a clue, or a
voyage without a compass.---( Cheers.) It was better to have the sup-
port of the enlightened masses without, than the enlightened Members
within the House of Commons.— (Cheers.) There were several ques-
tions now agitated, as the Ballot, Extension of the Suffrage, and shor-
tening of the duration of Parliament, which would disturb the country ;
but the question of all others which would agitate the empire from the
centre to the foundation—which would come home to every breast and
every conscience—which would meet Statesmen at every step, and
smash Cabinet after Cabinet—(Loud cheers)—which might (though
Heaven forbid) shake the Throne itself--was the Church Question.—
(Loud cheers.) There never could be harmony, nor unity, in this
country, while one party was elevated and another depressed, by the
State which ought to know no parties.
Mr. BAINFN, M.P., then rose to move the first resolution. He was,
though unprepared for this meeting, deeply imbued with the spirit which
ought to actuate them —(Cheers.) With regard to what Dr. Heugh
had said, the way to obtain the support of the enlightened masses
within, was to ',men re the support of the enlightened masses without.
--(Loud cheers.) It was true that principle ought to be the guide of
all their actiarn,—(Cheers.) For the first three centuries of the Chris-
tian era, Christianity had depended solely upon the voluntary principle.
When had the Church of England so much succeeded as when it de_
tended on the voluntary system ?—(Hear, hear.) Into Isis neighbeur_
hood there came some Commissioners, who expended 33,000/. upon the
building of new churches, but it was not their own—(Cheers and
laughter)—nor was it the money of the people who were to come to them
to worship—(Hear, hear)—but it came out of a very convenient fund,
called the Consolidated Fund.—(Laughter.) The people put into them
were considered very fitting people on the principle of patronage;
but did they gaits the affections of the people ?—The churches were not
filled. But the voluntary system depended on the affections of the
people, and on that principle the Churches were always filled.—(Hear,
hear.) The object of the measure which they were as emblea to resist
was to make the people of England, and even the poor people of Ire-
land, who could not support their own Church, pay for the Church of
Scotland.—.(Hear, hear.) He believed that the voluntary system was
working its way, and would ultimately be triumphant, if not in his
time, at all events in the time of his children. The Hou. Gentleman
concluded by moving the following resolution That this meeting having heard, with surprise and regret, that it
Is probable that a measure may be submitted to Parliament during the
present Session, for the purpose of granting additional endowments to
the Church of Scotland, enter their solemn protest against such a pro.
ject, for the following reasons :
, Ist. Such grants are partial, as they appropriate to one denomina-
tien the money drawn from the general resources of the nation ; and
this evil is aggravated by the fact that the favoured party too often em_
ploys the influence which it derives from these endowments to oppress
those who dissent from its communion.
Ind. Such grants are inconsistent with the principles laid down in
the New Testament for the diffusion and maintenance of Christianity,
founded as those principles are, only on the moral effects produced by
the truth on the minds of Christians, and recognising only willing
contribution.
3rd. Such grants are mischievous, as they tend to secure incomes
for incompetent officers, and to exempt them from the wholesome influ-
ence of public opinion, insulating them at the same time from the affec-
tion. of the people, one of the greatest evils to which a teacher of re-
lielee can be subjected.
4th. Such grants are opposed to the rights of conscience, by which
every man is entitled to form and support his own religious views,
without being subjected to the penalty of forced contribution for the
wipport of the religious views of others.
The Hen. JOHN YOUNG, of Albion Chapel, said that it was not to he
wondered at that those whose claims they had resisted should indulge
*me feelings of resentment towards them, and not feel inclined to put
the most kindly and charitable construction upon their proceedings.
Many of those persons he would freely admit were conscientiously con_
zinced of the superior advantages of, and were firmly attached to this
triode of supporting Christianity. Within the pale of the Church of
Pcotland there was a large body of men of sterling integrity of cha-
racter, and exemplary piety, and he was quite sure that it
• was not in that room their motives would be impugned, or
any thing like party feeling, or angry violence would be indulged in ;
, and that their actions would be treated as if dictated by the deliberate
Convictions of their own consciences.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that
the same indulgence which they were disposed to extend towards others
would be awarded to them, and that they would be allowed the exercise
Of that privilege so dear to Britons—the right of private judgment.—
(Cheers.) It ought not to be forgotten that the present movement on
the part of the Dissenters was distinguished by this peculiar feature—•
that it was purely defensive. Dissenters had often been charged with
being religious agitators, with endeavouring to break in on and
disturb the tranquillity of the Churcle—(Hear.) In the present
instance it was directly the reverse ; the aggressive movement
Came from the other side.—(Hear, hear.) They had assumed
an attitude purely defensive. They wished to prevent further en_
ceoachments on the rights of conscience and religious freedom, and they
were assembled to resist a proposal which they deemed unwise, unjust,
end anti scriptural in its nature.—(Cheerel The members of the depu-
taiion had sufficiently exposed the nature of this particular scheme, and
- he would now revert to the general principle thich it would involves