The Sun.
London, England, 1831-12-09 00:00:00

Lord ELLENBOROUGH rose, for the purpose
of moving for certain returns connected with the
financial affairs of India, and also for a report of the
Committee of the House of Commons of last ses-
sion, with a view to determine hoer far the commer-
cial means of the East India Company went to meet
its expenditure, without calling upon the. assistance
of the mother country. He could not help taking
.advantage of that opportunity to say a few words
with respect to the—as it appeared to him—extra-
ordinary omission of all allusion to the affairs of our
Indian possessions in the speech from the throne.
He must infer from that omission that it was not
intended, during the present session, to bring that
question before Parliament.—(Hear.) He was not
surprised at that omission, when he considered the
magnitude of the duties of the President of the Board
Controul,—duties, one-third of which it was phy-
sically impossible any man could perform in the time
he had at his disposal. It was true that the charter
was not to expire till 1834, but it should not be
forgotten that they were then commencing the ses-
sion of 1832—(Hear)—so that it was plain the
consideration of the very important question of our
Indian affairs was, after all, to be put off to the very
last moment.—(Hear, hear.) The charter was last
renewed in 1813. Many Noble Lords opposite,
members and supporters of the present Government,
took a part in the proceedings on that occasion. It
was a common complaint that the question at the
former period of discussion prevented the full con-
sideration due to a subject of such great magnitude
and importance. Indeed, dates showed that a due
discussion was altogether out of the question, for the
Bill renewing the charter was brought into:the Com-
mons on the 13th of July, was before their Lord-
ships on the 16th, and received the Royal assent on
the 21st.—(Hear, hear.) It was then, however,
understood between the Government and the Le-
gislature, that on the next renewal of the charter,
the most ample investigation of the subject would
be gone into. There was a Committee appointed
since then, to inquire into the subject of Indian af-
fairs, at which the Noble Marquis (Lansdowne)
opposite was a constant attendant. That Committee
examined, among others, persons who had recently
arrived from India, but the Committee was not now
in existence. Now since the Committee was ap-
pointed, very many persons well skilled in Indian
affairs had arrived in this country from India, and as
_ .

their information was the latest, it was but fair to
have the aid of that which was the best. If, there-
fore, that Committee was not renewed in a short
time, so as to take advantage of their evidence, he
now gave notice that he would submit a motion.for
its renewal. Indeed, the financial affairs of India
were hourly becoming so complicated and important,
as to require the immediate re-appointment of such
a Committee, so that he might take it for granted
that its appointment would not be much longer de-
layed. The Noble Lord concluded by moving for
the documents alluded to in his speech.
Earl GREY said, he was free to acknowledge
that the omission of any allusion to the affairs of
India in the speech from the throne was, as the
Noble Baron bad inferred, owing to the circum-
stance that Ministers did not intend, during the
present Session, to officially bring before Parlia-
'meat the important question of Indian affairs. He
would also acknowledge that the Noble Baron was
partly correct in his statement of the amount of the
duties of the President of the Board of Controul.
He would admit, likewise, the correctness of the
Noble Baron's statement, that very little considera-
tion had been bestowed upon the subject on the re-
newal of the charter in 1813; but he pledged
himself that ample time should be given for its dis-
cussion in all its bearings on the next renewal.—
(Hear.)
With respect to the Noble Baron's intended
motion for the re-appointment of the Committee,
all he could then say on the subject was, that Mini-
sters would take the subject into early consideration,
and that Parliament would find them most willing
to co-operate, not only in bringing forward every
information in their power, but also to assist in in-
quiring in every other quarter from which additional
information might be derived.—(Hear, hear.)
The motion was then put and carried.
DUTY ON HOPS.

On the motion of Lord TEYNIIAM, returns were
ordered of the amount of duty paid on hops in the
last year.

POOR LAWS.

The Marquis of SALISBURY wished to know
from the Noble and Learned Lord on the Wool-
sack, whether and when it was his intention to re-
deem.his promise of last Session to submit a motion
to their Lordships for amending the present system
of Poor Laws ?
The LORD CHANCELLOR could not then
take it upon him to say when or by whom the mo-
tion referred to by the Noble Marquis would be
tbroughtnobodyforward,
el
s e
uAnldl e
rhteo
ocoulde
tcaesriti
aihnelywsaoyuld"..a.,s,
The Marquis of SALISBURY—During the pre-
sent Session ?
The LORD CHANCELLOR—CertainIy. I
' mean the present Session.
TITHES (IRELAND.)
Viscount MELBOURNE gave notice, that on
Thursday next he would, pursuant to the recorna.
mendation in the speech from the throne, with re-
spect to the payment of tithes in Ireland, move
for a Committee to inquire into the present tithe
system in that country.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord CLONCURRY had a number of p,ctiiions
to present with respect to the painaent of tithes is
Ireland, which he wouid take an early occasion to
submit to their Lordships. The Noble Lord was
proceeuing to state his opinions of the—as he stated
—oppressive and partial effect of the. tithe system
in
Tle E Ireilangi o when
\ nII7I
kisi3Oc3ll\e‘, whcl
d to order by
be.gired to re-
icind the Noble Tarot ‘ that was irregular to enter
into statemenil on giving a notice. The more
regular course would be, to defer his observations
until he brought forward the petitions,
Lord CLONCURRY said that his chief object
was to express his thaaraulneis to Ministers for their
prarijt inquiry into a system productive of so much
mischief.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH legged to know
whether the prayer of the petitions intrusted to the
Noble 1-,aron was merely for an inquiry into the
operation of the tithe system in Ireland ?
Lord CLONCURRY—The petitions simply ar-
raigned the partial and oppressive character of the
tithe system in Ireland.
Lord ELLEN BOROUGH said it was most de-
sirable that all petitions should be referred to the
Committee about to be appointed, in order that it

,;~.:

. ,
accustomed to do to another. I then walked
up to him with my volumes in
,my hand, and ad-
dressed him nearly as follows I have the
honour of laying before your Majesty a work
which was published more than a century ago;
and dedicated to George I. This is the second
edition, with life of the author, notes, and other
additions; and your Majesty has here a speci-
men of the progress made in typography in the
west of Scotland. The work is a national one,
and has been highly approved by Mr. Fox, Mr.
Chalmers, and others, as a correct statement of
facts, illustrative of a very important period of our
history. I have the honour of requesting your Ma-
jesty's acceptance of this copy, and to return your
Majesty the berst thanks of the publishers, and of
myself, as Editor, for the . condescending
manner in which your Majesty has been
pleased to permit the new edition of the work
to be dedicated to your Majesty.' By this time
his Majesty had got hold of the volumes,
and was busily employed examining the
title page, contents, plates, &c., with all which
he expressed himself much pleased. On turn-
ips, up successively
.the engravings of Sharpe,,,-;
Craverhouse, Lauderdale, Carstairs, &c., re-
marks
were made on each, and the King seemed
to be very well informed in their respective his-
tories.
The work (he said) contains, I think,
the history of the persecutions in Scotland in the
days of Charles the Second.' Yes, please your
Majesty, it is the history of the eventful period
from the Restoration in 1660, till the Revolu-
tion in MSS." A very valuable record it must
be,' he added: After sneaking a little more upon,
the subject of the book, the King asked
Pray, Sir, what sitpation do you hold in Scot-
land
?! I told hitn—' Please your Majesty, I
am one of the Parochial Ministers of Paisley, so "
well known. for its manufactUres ; and where,
am sorry to inform your Majesty, there is at ,•
present very great distress among the operatives,
2,000 or 3,000 of whom are out of work.'—
His Majesty asked the cause, when I adverted
to several causes, such as the unsettled state of
the public mind, occasioned by the delay in the
settlement of the Reform Question—she preva-
lence of disease on the Continent,. and the re-
straints on trade by quarantine—the trade being
overdone with us, and the periodical results of-
speculation, &c. &c.' Have you many Irish in
Paisley, and are they mostly Roman Catholics ?'
I told him we had a great many Irish families ;
that the greater part were Catholics, particularly
those from the South and West ; that it had a
good many Protestants and Presbyterians from
the North.; that there were many poor amongst
them ; and 'that .We felt the burden of sup-, •
porting the poor of a country which had no
system of poor laws for itself. His Majesty
said, That is a great evil, and something
must be done by the Legislature ; but they must
take time to deliberate on a matter of such con-
sequence. The Alinistry are determined to do
nothing rashly, and they have had many things
to occupy their thoughts of late.' I remarked
that his Majesty's time must have been for some
time past very painfully engaged with those mat-
ters ; when he _said in reply, that he personally
had not felt the burden so much, but that those
who were his advisers had certainly' done so.
I expressed a hope, that with the blessing of
Divine Providence, matters would soon be
brought to a bearing, and the nation's best inte-
rests effectually secured ; to which he cordially
assented. There was also a good deal said (11'1
the subject of the state of the poor in En :land,
the objections to the theory and management of
the poor laws, &c., and his Majesty showed that
fhuellyuitilidtoersthtoeo.
bjtheeetisounbsjeacgtaiNnvsetlollug,oltairtita,:inoowisilsiieyliosmeetfile.lioEitinelaile•ireg,,:;:
paying the price of labour out of the rates, and
,altsahsutligdsividenentg.ortapodaitunhpgeerstsh:lepapinao(birotrueoprfi
rnetgsheepnotipill
in fact, 'appropriated to far different objects.
' You manage these things better in Scotland.'
Please your Majesty, our poor do not expect.
so much as the English poor. 1 observed a case.
in Court the other day, when the dispute lay
between :is. a-bead for each member of the
family and 25.; and the Judges decided on a
medium, 3s. 6d. In Scotland, in place of 12s.
or 15s. for this family of poor applicants, the
sum allowed for one member of it would have
been held quite sufficient.' In Paisley you are
all, I presume, of the Church of Scotland ?'
Please your Majesty, we have many Presbyte-
rians, dissenters from us, yet our Dissenters
differ from us almost wholly on one point—the
law of lay-patronage. Our standards and mode
of worship are the same. We have also an
Episcopal Chapel in Paisley, to the building of
which, if I am not mistaken, your Majesty was
pleased to contribute ; and I have to inform
your Majesty, that when I left Scotland, a few
weeks ago, the erection was in progress, and
it will be a very great ornament to the town.'
Your people in Paisley, I think, are mostly
engaged in weaving ?' I told his Majesty that
weaving was our great staple—that about a hun-
dred years ago Paisley began its career as a ma-
nufacturing town—that successively linen, thread,
silk, gauze, and cotton in all its forms, had been
prominent--that, like Spitalfields, we feel
deeply the ' depression of trade—yet that
unlike Sphalfields, we had not so near us
the wealth and the resources of the me-
tropolis. I noticed, however, the great kind-
ness of the London Committee in 1822 and
1826, in contributing to our fund to the extent
of 16„0001. or 18,0001. The King spoke of
there being no predisposition to riot either in
Englishmen or Scotsmen, and this led us to
notice the causes of excitement, such as poverty,
evil advisers, bad publications, &c. After again
thanking his Majesty for the honour done me,
and expressing my fear of having intruded too
long on his time, his Majesty replied very gra-
ciously, and I retired. Sir Herbert was still in
the ante-room, and asked me to take a sight of
the apartments of the Palace—a suite of roonis,
said to be unequalled in Europe for splendour,
they exceed all my ideas of magnificence—yet,
to attempt a description would be vain. I saw
portraitin
othe ne of
N, hn of the ist
Wilkiei
s a
full-length
t
—a very exact likenoss ; and as his Majesty had
been sitting, or rather standing for it in the
morning, I saw hint not in the morning costume,
lust, in full dress. He has not tile portly (august)
appearance of George IV., yet reminds me of a
good-looking
country-gentleman.respectable and
present
engaged o
f Mies regaling myself with these interesting
sights, I bade adieu to the Palace, set off at
three, and in a short time was again in London.
There is a constant thoroughfare between Lon-
don and Brighton ; the road is excellent, the
country fine, and Brighton, as a watering-place,
and as the residence of the Court, has many at-
tractions to the rich mid the gay.

It is a Spattish maxim that he who loseth
wealth loseth much ; lie who loseth a friend loseth more ;
but he who loseth his spirits loseth a11,.--Drawing
Scrap Shect.