The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-09 00:00:00

-,l7llnrf.roa;n,cethhoaiseNst ,tahneEirt.lolytaiietoft4ed dhietecofrofaauti:dcht
niseb:h. kesiprest°:liiirrige ilia'
be"
at bear-
ing the Hon. Member for Preeton talk of the present Bil
iisfranchising five millions of the working class of males.
the fact was the Bill did not disfranchiseany one. The Has.
frinber could not have recollected, when he spoke in
this way, that, according to the census of 1821, the
whole population of England was 12 millions-..-at present
14 millions--that the half of those were women, and vyet
is talked of '7,000,000 of males being disfranchised by
this measure.—(Much laughter.) The delegates who
:tad left the petition with the Honourable Member for
Preston had been with him (Mr. O'Connell) for an hour
old a half, and two of them at least had gone away under
the firm conviction that the petition was not a proper peti-
tion to be presented.--(Hear, hear, hear.) Just as they
were going out of the door one of them inquired
4f him, "Do you seriously believe the Hon. Member for
Preston has been bribed ?"—(Much laughter.) He told
the delegate be did not—that he did not for two reasons—.
!list, that nobody would think it worth their while to bribe
,rim, and next, that in all probability he would not con.,
4ent to receive a bribe.—(Loud laughter.)
Sir CHARLES FORBES thought the Hon. Member
'or Preston had introduced this petition with his usual
turfour and fairness.—(Loud laughter on the Opposition
mide.) Sir Charles could easily understand the laugh that
noceeded from the Treasury Benches. The fact was, that
he truth should not always be told, and frequently
.t was not very palatable when told. The measure was
tot calculated, undoubtedly, to satisfy the people, nor
would it be found to give them satisfaction. The moment
,t was passed, should it even pass into a law, the
people would resist upon the principle that it (ifprinaple it
!,as) as far as in them lay, should be further extended.
He could not conceive wherein the justice lay of a Bill in
which the principle was to give the right of voting to
those who paid Ss. 10d. a week for their lodgings, arid
refuse it to these who paid only 3s. 6d. The Hoo-
uourable Member for Westminster had stated out of
chat House that which was pretty nearly the
saute thing as that which the Hon. Member for Preston
had openly declared in that House. He had said, this was
not quite the time for the ballot—it would not do to talk
'bout it at a moment like the present; for the peope
might to be satisfied with the present measure, looking
forward to a period when universal suffrage and vote
'lr ballot might be proposed with a greater chance
of success. It wa., notwithstanding, most prudent, if
they just waited to bi'e how the eat jumped. Why;
4toidst all this cry for universal suffrage, the ladies
should be shut out, the Hon. Baronet could not by
any means conceive. They voted at the India House—there
were several occasions on which they bad votes--they
had a most just estimate of the principles of this
measure—the latter he knew to be beyond dis-
pute, because there was not one of them with whom
he had conversed on the subject who was not decidedly
opposed to the measure. On such grounds be really
:bought that the elective franchise ought to be extended to
them. Should the Reform Bill pass, he was certain
that he would find, should he he in that House next.
Parliament, which was not very likely, for lie con.-
fessed that he would have no great ambition • to.
be asociated there with those who would be returned under
the Reform Bill, that the prayer of the petition of the
lion. Member for Preston would be among the first sub-
jects pressed on the attention of the House.

Lord STANLEY rose merely to read part of a letter
which had been put into his hand since the Hon. Member
for Preston presented his petition. The letter stated that
Mr. Hunt had declared to the working classes of Lapels.-
shire that they need not expect much from the 'pre-
sent measure, and he went on to urge them to get up the
present petition, to let it be as strong as possible, to, let it
be as numerously signed as possible, and to let Km have
it before the 15th, when he intended to bring -forward
his motion on the Corn Laws. Thus moat for the
lion. Member who had declared that he was a friend to
Reform, and that he had not incited persons, to send up
improper petitions to Parliament.—(Hear.)
Mr. ROBINSON could not conceive. why the Min.
Member for Preston took upon himself; night after n;.ght,
to claim, par excellence, to be the only organ of the
sentiments of the working classes in that House. He
denied that the Hon. Member had any better feeling
towards that class of his Majesty's subjects than
any other individual in that House. He denied
that the people had been deluded by the present
measure of Reform, or that they were ignorant that it was.
calculated to extend the basis of Parliamentary representa,
tion, and thereby to give to the people a real and rAnt
a nominal representation and controul over their repre-
sentatives. His only hope was, that the people would] not
be deluded by the Hon. Member who had brought up this
petition.—(Hear, hear.)

Mr. LABOUCHERE said the great maj,srity of his
constituents would be placed by the effect of this Bill in a
situation far more unfavourable than that -which they now-
enjoyed ; he begged here, however, to say, that having
canvassed every voter in that borough, which he had tl,-e
honour to represent, he could ass:dre the House, while
they were well acquainted with the effect which this
Bill would have upon them,, he had not found a single
man that did not give it his most hearty support.--,
(Hear, bear.) Gentle',4en might talk about delusion,
but those who did iort upon this occasion knew very little
about the intAligence and patriotic feelings of that, eiass
of the community, which he thought the fact he had just
stated clearly proved. While praise: was bestowed upon
Noble Lords, and he joined in it cordially, for their
grtat sacrifice of most important and value:nit possessions,
conjoined with much political power, for the sake of the
public weal, he claimed for those in a much lower
sphere of society the mead of a nation's praise,.
who had on this occasion so nobly preferred publie:
duty to their private intertsts.—(Cheers.) He did
not wish to intrude longer an the attention of the House,
but he really felt that, representing such a class, and be-
ing proud of their disinterested conduct, he could not do.
justice to them, or to his own feelings, if he had not tnadet
these observ,-..tions when he had heard such remarks as
had th 4 evening been made in the House relative to that
class, of the community.--(Hear.)
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said, the House could very well
' appreciate the hollowness of that pretended sympathy
which was expressed by some 11,4 n. Members towards the
comparatively unimportant 'Fauber of burgesses who
are to be disfranchised, at the, same time that they were
directing the whole of their speeches and votes against the
Reform Bill, which wonlii enfranchise so many thousands
who were now exclude.) from a share in the representation..
Much had been ariid about the wild state of representation
which would mine if this Bill was passed. Ilis answer
was it depended upon the next Parliament. If that Par-
liamen.'4, as, he was confident would be the case, considered
the rights and security and happiness of the people the legi-
timate basis of good government, without pursuing aris-
toeratical and exclusive privileges, but. shewed themselves
anxious for the public good, the Non. Member for Pres-
Lonnuanalight
parliamentsn t a Parliament
un
ihyreirn,gio,,,sour
ffvca:l,,hbi t petitions
w old
findfor
none to advocate his opinio-As in that House, and feweN•
still out of doors to sympathize with hint.--((;beer,,. )
Sir. E. SUGDEN said be had many opportuni'aa of
ascertaining the sentimasts of the lower class of tl,e com-
munity, and he deni;aaltogether the exigence of that ex-
tensive and accuri.te)knAvledge among them respecting the
nature and eff"ta of this Bill, which wet(' so, proudly im-
puted to teem.

EWART was astonished to hear the Hon. and
Learned Member make such a statement as he hid just
:done, that the people of England, were ignorant of the
naturo of the Reform Rll, He (Mr. Ewart) was
suxe that the people of England had never before shown
that they understood any. question better. He was also
astonished that the Hon, and Learned Gentleman;
had notcorrectedkuis-stavment made by the Hon. Men.,.
ber for Presto.A, which was, that the first disfranehisemeut
Bill was ttsasvi' in the reign of Henry VIII. The fact
was, tikz,t the first Bill for that purpose appeared and was
vae4.4 in the time of Henry V.
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN also contender.: that the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Sir E. Sugden) was wrong
in his statement, that the people were ignorant of the
princ!,ples, of the. P:tiorm Rll.

After a few observations from Sir C. Foaats, Lord
ST,ANLEY, aad Mr. LA➢OUCHEIE, the petition was ordered
to be laid on the table.

Upon the motion that it be printed,
Mr. PORTMAN wished to ask t!e Hon. Member 1
Prestcn whether he bail not taken an oath before the '..urti
Mayor to support universal suffrage and the ballot.
Mr. HVN.T had taken such an oath, awl would at auy
time rqnew it.
After a few words from Co'onel EVANS and Mr. CH:rs--
SET PELHAM, the petition was ordered to be priatett
On the motion of Lord NUGENT, a new writ ICT 3 of,-•
dered to be issued fur the borough of Westbury.
Sir JOHN OWEN, on the ground of due• as/,ice not
having been given to him respecting the periit3o, against
his return for the county of Pembroke, moved ',or an ex-
tension of time to prepare new lists and to meet ti ,e petition.
31st of Julyereciueste to the 11th of g
requested that tbetinieATigusbtt. be extend ed from the
After a few words from Mr. Prizt.r.irs;. 73!'r.. C. W. W.
WYNN, and the CHANCELLOR of the Excli: eQtJER, the p,