The Sun.
London, England, 1822-05-04 00:00:00

atiteetae -would 'be rendered comparatively simple and intel- '
ligible. He could not see what objection the other side could
urge to so plain a proposition, and he concluded by moving, as
an amendment, " That the eords of the Treasury be autho-
rised to contract wish the Commissioners for the Redemption of
the National Debt for the sums required."
Mr. CRIPPS was firmly of opinion that the Noble Marquis
tleandonderry) had conferred benefit on the country by ad-
herieg to the Sinking Fund. He admitted, nevertheless, that
the plait now proposed militated in a slight degree against it ;
but it was necessary that some relief in the shape of taxation
should be given to the distressed inhabitants, and he knew of
no better mode of giving it•than• the present. The whole of
-the Leather 'fax, a moiety of the Salt Tax, and a large portion
of the House and Window Tax, would thus be removed. He
did not see any of.the complication of which the Hon. Member
fel. Montrose had spoken, and had not a shadow.of doubt that,
if the terms were proposed, contractors might be found for the
whole before to-morrow night.
Mr. WHITMORE thought that all must agree that it
weuld be more economical at least to borrow the money of the
Sinking Fund than of contractors. .He had Voted for preserv-
ing the Sinking Fund at the beginning of the Session, because
a great financial project was then before the country—the pay-
' ment of the 5 per cents.; but now that object had been so
easily, effected, it became the duty of the House to consider the
test and speediest means of affording relief to the country. If
'h.e contract were made according to the amendment, all corn-
eaexity rooldbe avoided, and the whole scheme would be ren-
• --: el clear to. the meanest understanding. At the same time
• eted for the amendment, on the faith that whatever saving
•erele should go to the reduction of 'the national debt.
are 3. MARTIN. begged to know if the office were still
the sale of Government Annuities? He asked this
. • ee, because he wished to know if the Chancellor of the
meant that it was right for the country at a time like
• eas to sell annuities at the cheapest, and buy them at the
_acaxest rate ?siker.)
Mr. RICAR 0 said, that all now concurred in one point—
that the nation ought to-be relieved ; for this reason those who
sat on the Opposition side had not the slightest objection to the
plan for the assistance of the distressed by the diminution of
taxation. The only question was as to the most economical
mode of doing so. The proposition of the Hon. Member for
Montrose was the same as that of Ministers, only he wished the
contract to be made on the most advantageous terms. What.
ever bonus the private contractor obtained would be a clear loss.
to the country, with the accumulation of .compound interest.—
* There
.could be no doubt that, if the sum required werenow
taken from the Sinking Fund, at the end of 45 years the
country would be in, a better financial situation than if the
money were borrowed cf individuals, who would of course
make-a profit of the public wants. He was an enemy to all
..complicated schemes,. and was for avoiding a crooked path
_when there was a straight one before him leading to the same
end. The clear and obvious course was to take the sum from
the Sinking Fund e and if Ministers did not do it, it was only
'because they had so short a time since so repeatedly and suc-
cessfully called upon the House to support the Sinking Fund.
Ile did not think his Honourable Friend (Mr. Whitmore)
quite consistent in voting for the Amendment, having earlier
in the Session voted for maintaining the principle of the Sink-
ing Fund inviolate.
Mr. T. WILSON contended, that at the present moment,
while the 3 per cents. were at 78 or_79, Ministers could make a
more advantageous bargain than at s subsequent period when
• they were lower. Besides, they would thus avoid the contin-
gencies of war. It was just as proper now to support the Sink-
ing Fund, as in the beginning of the Session, -because the pe-
riod might not be far distant, and he hoped it was not, when
Ministers would be prepared to pay off the 4 per cents. The
present amendment was an attack upon the Sinking Fund by a
side wind. Though relief from taxation was very desirable,
it was even more important to keep faith with the public cre-
ditor; and if that faith were not kept, the
.agricultural in-
terest might suffer even more severely than at the present
moment.
Mr. BROUGHAM was of opinio,n that some answer ought
to be given to the cogent arguments which had been advanced
Ehis Hon. Friends. He congratulated the Chancellor of the
chequer on his having at length consented to reduce taxa-
tion.. He had begun well,. for two millions was a good deal
for a man who a short time since said that he could not give upa
farthing; and it should not be his fault if he did not reduce
several millions more. If an advantage were effected in the
-contract from the probable falling of the Funds, as had been
stated by the Hon. Member for the city of London, why not
contract a loan of 20,000,0001., and • apply that sum to a Sink-
ing Fund or any other useful purpose ? There was also
30,000,0001. of unfunded debt, and why not fund that debt
if there were such advantages to be derived from it ? It
vras quite obvious thanthe taking the money from the Sink-
, ing Fund would be the mode most consistent with econo-
my- for by doing so we should retain to ourselves the
profit which must go to the contractors, be they who they may. It
necessarily followed from this plan that we borrowed, and that
payment was deferred to our posterity. As to the Noble Lord's
plan of the Sinking Fund, to let the 5,000,0001. go on accue
mulating at compound interest for ten years until it amounted
to 8,000,00001. ; during that period no taxes could be taken
away, but after its expirration the fund would be applied year
after year to the reduction of taxes ; while the country was
ie. its present lamentable • state of distress, he contended
that we had better have no such Sinking Fund at all. The
1400,0.001. ought to be taken for the repeal of taxes, to be
hid on again when the country was sufficiently recruited
to bear it. But then came the question, since they were
to have a Sinking Fund, what were the best means of em-
. ploying it' Now he had a plan which he would state to
the House, and -which he considered to be of much more
value to the country than the Noble Lord's. He would take
the 5,000,0001. and let it operate by simple interest only, which
• would give 250,0001. a year, to be repealed in taxes immedi-
•ately. In the ten years this would reduce
.2,500,0001. taxes,
and in twenty years, 5,000,0001. By the Noble Lord's plan,
in twenty years they should have remitted 4,000,0001. of taxes.
At twenty-six years the Noble Lord's plan would overtake
ins, and after that it would have the advantage. How, he
would ask, did this correspond with the Annuity Plan ? The
- one made the expence fall upon the future generation, and the
other took it off. The two plans were directly opposed to each
other. With regardto the Chancellor of the Exchequer's•plan,
its novelty would raise the market against him. Men must al-
ways be bribed into such transactions as they, did not under-
stand from experience. The market into which the Right Hon.
Gerniernan would go must necessarily be confined. He en-,
treated the House to consider what must needs follow such an
arrangement. There was no difficulty in negociating a loan,
because persons having money to spare would embark it in
that, knowing that their returns were immediate. But in this
case the bidden must necessarily be contracted, and confined to
large capitalists. That private_ individuals, therefore, should
embark property in it was not to be believed when they saw the
very few persons who entered into tontine concerns, notwith-
standing the means taken to puff them. A few, who wished
to provide for their children by advancing. sums at their birth,
to be received when they became of age, might purchase in this
fond ; but the naturally limited character of the market ren-
dered it certain that persons must' e bribed, in order to induce
them to contract. Innny, case an advantage must be given,
and he intreated the • House to think who was to pay it. Let
them only lo de at the ridicule which would attach to their com-
mitting Si ch an absurdity. At the same time when they were
locking up 5,000,0001, in s chest, and lending money to great
disadvantage, they were to go into the market and borrow
erioney at a great loss. Thus, whether they were borrowers or
lenders, the profit always" went to the Contractor. Any, Gen-
tleman, in private life, who pursued a similar course, instead
of being sent to his own mansion, would be taken to Bethlem
Hospital. The Hon. and Learned Member then put the case
of a private individuarborrowing money at disadvantage, when
he had the mears of paying the debt in his ;own hands. He
saw no reason to shift from the grounds upon which he first
, heard and understood it, and Upon those grounds he should
-Vot3 for the amendment.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it was
the good fortune of this preposition to receive the support of
'both sides of the House, only that some desired its ruodifica- ,
tion. The other side wished to support by breaking down the
Sinking Fund, while they, on the contrary, thought the pre-
_ eerseation of the Sinking Fund necessary to its being carried
into effect. At the commencement of the SesSion the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman proposed the remission of taxes to the
amount of the Sinking Fund. But they thought the honour
and the dignitsr and the public faith of the country could only
be nriaintained by making the Sinking Fund inviolable. Upon
awn strength of this determination, they had been enabled to
execute a financial operation which had not been equalled in
importance of late years. And now, upon the confidence of
the high public credit which they had established, this other
proposition was ventuted ueen. By it, 2,000,0001. would be
*hem to alleviate the existing distress.. The lion. and Learned
Gentlernr.n said that It would press upon posterity; but, he
contended, it would do so in a fair and just degree. He
thought the Bon. and Learned Gentle Men had fallen into the
error of many others, who asserted that at the end of 45 years
vet should hasie more debt than we should have had without the
plan.
MT. BROUGHAM.—" I said we shall have paid more."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was willing
to allOhv the we shall have paid more for one period when we
had paid less for another. He did say that _nothing could be
more just and equitable than such ,a distribution of time for the
payment. There was a great difference between paying
3,000,0001. a year for a number of years, and 5,000,0001. now.
He did not say, that we were not in that extreme distress which
some Honourable Members believed ; but if we were in that
extreme distress, the difference in the payment of these sums'