The Sun.
London, England, 1822-03-12 00:00:00

MISELLANEOUS.

Mr. MAsox, from the East India House, presented certain
Resolutions of the Court of Directors, relating to the Salaries
of the Officers of the Company.
Mr. PLUNKETT and Mr. K. DOUGLAS, took the oaths
and their seats on their re-election.

Mr. CURWEN gave notice, that on Friday next he should
move for a Committee of the whole Douse, to take into consi-
deration the Tax upon Tallow.
Sir W. LEMON presented a petition from an Individual at
Nlerazion, in Cornwall, complaining of the weight of Tithes
upon the profits of his trade.—Ordered to lie on the table.
AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.

Mr. SYKES presented a Petition from certain Land Owners,
of Ilolderness, in Yorkshire, complaining of Agricultural Dis-
tress, and praying for relief. The Petition, the Hon. Mem-
ber,said, was respectably signed; the petitioners had for the
greater part of their lives applied themselves to agricultural
pursuits, and had never interfered with politics. For the first
time in their livei they petitioned the Parliament, and he had
to state that theiripetition would have been presented by the
Noble Member fur Yorkshire, had he not by a domestic circum-
stance been prevented attending his Parliamentary duties. The
petitioners did not think proper to entrust their Petition to the
other Member for Yorkshire, because their opinions did not
coincide with his.—The petition was read and ordered to lie on
the table.

Mr. CURWEN presented a petition from certain Owners
and Occupiers of Land at Thackington, in Cumberland, com-
plaining of Agricultural Distress.

EDINBURGH POLICE.

Mr. HUME presented a Petition from several Inhabitants
of Edinburgh, against the Edinburgh Police Bill. The Hon.
Member said, that on a former occasion when the Police of
Edinburgh came under discussion, he had charged Captain
Brown of that Police with having presented false musters.—
This had been misunderstood for a charge of forgery, a crime
which he had never imputed to that individual. He (sir. 11.)
understood, however, that even the charge of false musters was
denied ; and he had the means of proving. it. The Hon. Mem-
ber here referred to some document stating that Capt. Brown
had charged for twenty-two watchmen, when but nineteen had
been kept, and that in other instances he had overstated the
'number of the Police force.

Mr. DUNDAS said, he had no wish whatever to protect
Capt. Brown, if the charges brought against him should be well
founded. His only desire was that the case should be fairly laid
before the-House.
The Petition was then ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. COLTRTENAY presented a Petition from several per-
sons residing near Exeter, complaining, as was understood, of
certain legal disabilities under which they suffered, in conse-
quence of their religious opinions, and praying for relief.
Mr. NEWIIAN bore testimony to the respectability of the
Petitioners.

This Petition was also ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. WI LMOT presented a return of the absent officers be-
longing to the Colonies.
Sir G. HILL presented certain accounts from the Vice.
Treasurer's Office in Ireland.—Ordered to be printed.
Sir W. CURTIS moved that certain papers, which he pre-
sented, should be referred to the Orphans' Fund Committee.—
Ordered.

Sir It. EERGUSON presented a Petition from the Writers
of the Signet at Edinburgh, complaining of a clause in the
Edinburgh Police Bill, which they said went to deprive

them of certain privileges, and praying to be heard by Coun-
sel against the clause.—Ordered.
Mr. COKE presented a Petition from the Inhabitants of
Wotton, in Norfolk, against the Norfolk County Jail Bill.
The Petitioners on account of the Distressed State of the County
wished the Bill to be postponed for the present.—Ordered to
lie on the table.

ILCHESTER JAIL.
Mr,BENNETT presented a Petition from the Debtors con-
fined in Ilchester Jail, complaining of the operation of the re-
cently adopted Rules of that prison. They stated that they
were allowed no communicatinn with their families or friends
but in a room called the Conversation Room, which they de-
scribed as a close cell, seven feet by twelve, and in which there
were sometimes as many as forty persons. The Honourable
Member said that the Commissioners appointed to examine
the state of the Jail had expressed their disapprobation of the
treatment of the debtors. The rooms he believed were some.
times actually flooded ; and an instance had been known of a
person being confined in the same room with the corpse of one
of the debtors. After what had already transpired, he trusted
some inquiry would be instituted into the circumstances stated
by the Petitioners.
Mr. DICKINSON admitted that the Room alluded to was
too small for its intended purpose. The fact was, that a plan
was under consideration for remedying that inconvenience.—
With respect to the flooring of the room, it was proposed to
elevate the flooring above the reach of the water. The Hon.
Member for Shrewsbury was under a mistake as to the circum-
stance he had mentioned, respecting the confinement of a person
in the same room with the dead body of one of the debtors.
The son of the deceased wished to remain with the body of his
father, and the other person, who was a debtor, voluntarily re-
mained in the room.

The petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. BEN NET T then presented a Petition from the Rev.W.
Creswell, a clergyman of Somersetshire, in behalf of a person
named Gill, who had been confined in Ilchester Gaol for six-
teen years, at the suit of the Crown. The Crown had sent
down a discharge for him ; but some unaccountable difficulty
had arisen to his personal release.
Mr. DICKINSON said, he presumed no charge was in.
tended to be conveyed by this petition against the Magistrates
of Somersetshire.

➢lr. BENNETT said, he knew. not who 'was to blame;
whether it was the perpetual Under Sheriff; or the Magistracy.
Mr DICKINSON said, there was no perpetual Under
Sheriff:

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the in-
dividual in question had been confined for fraudulent conduct,
independent of the pecuniary debt to the Crown.
After a few words from Mr. BENNETT, in explanation, the
Petition was ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. SYKES moved for a return of the Excise duty on can-
dles, from the beginning of the year 1821 to that of the year
1822.—Ordered.

A NI EmitE a, whose name could not be learned, presented a
petition from Denbigh, complaining of agricultural distress,
and praying for economy in the public expenditure.
Lord A. HAMILTON presented a petition from the Cor-
poration of Bakers in Edinburgh, against the Police Bill. The
Noble Lord said, there were many objections to this Bill, and
especially to the number of persons qualified to act as Commis-
sioners under it. He intreated the attention of Honourable
Members to this Bill, whether they were connected with Scot-
land or not. The Provost of Edinburgh, he understood, had
refused to call a Meeting of the inhabitants to consider the pro-
priety of petitioning the House against this Bill.

The Petition was ordered to lie on the table.
NAVY •FIVE PER CENTS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
Order of the Day for the third reading of the Navy Five per
Cents. Bill.

On the question being put for the third reading,
Mr. TIERNEY said, he had been requested by several
persons interested in this Stock to submit to the House a
doubt which had arisen respecting the legality of this Bill.
The question had already been before the House upon
the construction of the Act, declaring that this Stock should
not be redeemable until twenty-five millions of the National
Debt had been paid off Ile had looked at the Act, and he
could not admit the objection had been answered by a.reference
to the 53d of the late King. He admitted, however, that the
reference to the Land Tax Redemption Act afforded a stronger
answer to the objection, and he was not disposed to contest it
any further. The difficulty which had been suggested to him
arose from the want of notice to the holders of the stock, to
which notice he thought they were entitled by the terms of the
37th of King George the Second, which contained clauses for
the redemption of the several funds then in existence. The
Three and Four per Cents. it appeared, were redeemable on 12
months' notice, without any condition as to the reduction of
debt ; but the Five per Cents. on their creation, were declared to
be irredeemable, until 25 millions of the debt had been paid off,
and were then to he redeemed in the manner pointed out by
the last mentioned Act respecting the Three and Four per
Cents. The mode of redeeming was therefore declared by the
Act creating the Five per Cent. stock ; and this Act expressly
referred to the Acts respecting the Three and Four i.,T Cents.
In the last mentioned Acts the direction as to the 12 months
notice was very minute. The notice, he believed, was to be
affixed to the Royal Exchange. He assured the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite, and the House, that he had no wish to
embarrass the progress of the Bill ; but as he had been re-
quested by persons interested in the Stock to state this doubt,
which appeared to him to be a very strong one he thought he
should not have done his duty to suffer the Bill to pass with-
out stating the circumstance. The Right Honourable Gentle-
man here referred to the Act creating the Five per Cents.,
which declared the redemption should take place " in the
manner and upon the terms" stated in the Act respecting
the Three and Four per Cents. He trusted the Hon. and
Learned Member opposite would give a satisfactory answer upon
the subject.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he was not oppressed
by the difficulty suggested by the Right Hon. Gentleman.—lt
was undoubtedly true that any individual holding a share of
the Three per Cent. Stock previous to the consolidation might
have objected to being paid off without notice ; but, on the
consolidation, the holders had all consented. Even if the ob-
servation of the Right Hon. Member applied, it was answered
by the circumstancehe had mentioned. But, in fact, the words
" in the manner," and so on, which he had quoted from the
Act, referred to the words of paying off the twenty-five millions,
which previous payment was a previous condition for the pay-
ing off the Five per Cents.

;‘tr. TIERNEY said his objection was, that by the mode
which had been adopted for paying off the Three per Cents.
the holders of the present stock had been injured. The holders
of the latter had been no parties to the arrangement with
those of the Three per Cents., and they were now taken on the
sudden.

Mr. IIUSKISSON thought the whole question turned upon
the construction of the words " paid off.' In the Act which
had been mentioned, it was evident that they referred to the
-condition that a given sum should be paid off before this stock
should be redeemed. The clause stopped at the words—" paid
off," and did not go on to state any particular manner.—(Mr.
Tierney, across the table, said, the particular manner of paying
off was provided for in the 16th section of the Act.)—He begged
pardon of the Right Hon. Gentleman. The whole of that clause
related to the Three per Cents.—(Hear, hear !)—He admitted
that the Three per Cents. as now constituted could not be paid
off without twelve months' notice, whatever advantages might
offer themselves to Government to pay off within those twelve
months. The argument of the Right Hon Member would in.
fer that Mr. Pitt had tied himself up from paying off the Five
per Cents. without twelve months' notice ; an idea too absurd to
be seriously entertained. The language of the Act itself, how-
ever, was as clear as possible on the subject ; as it was not de-
nied that the condition had been complied with ; at all events
by the Land Tax Redemption Act, he could see ao reasonable
objection to the progress of the Bill.
Mr. ELLICE said, that however Hon. Members might
agree upon the construction of these Acts, the House ought to
be satisfied that it was proceeding according to law. He could
not comprehend the construction which had been put upon the
particular Act by the last Right Hon. Speaker. He thought
25 millions of the debt ought to be really and bona fide reduced,
before the stock in question were paid off. Ile was aware that
a plausible answer to the objection had been offered in a refer-
ence to the Land Tax Redemption Act ; but lie trusted that
some individual holder of this stock would try the question be-
fore a legal tribunal. He wished to ask the Hon. and Learned'
Gentleman opposite, upon the clause respecting Trustees. He
feared the language of the clause was not sufficiently general;
and if there was the least doubt upon the subject, he trusted it
would be removed. Ile believed there was another clause
giving to the Trustees of persons residing abroad the same time
to dissent which those persons themselves would have if the
stock stood in their own names. The same doubt applied to
this clause. He should not oppose the third reading of the Bill.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, the doubt suggested
by the Hon. Member had occurred to himself, and he had
proposed the introduction of the word "all" before the word
"'Trustees," to remove all doubt.
Mr. ELLICE explained.
Mr. WILLIAMS', referring to the difficulty he had men-
tioned on a former night respecting the form of the dissent
to be given in at the Bank, stated that the same difficulty had
occurred to-day on presenting one of the forms at the Bank.
The clerk said, if a single word of the form were altered, the
dissent would not be allowed. He (Mr. Williams) had under-
stood that some communication would be made to the Bank on
the subject.
Mr. LUSHINGTON said, he had written to the Governor
and Company of the Bank on the subject; and he could only

suppose that the recent circumstance alluded to by the Hon.
Member must have originated in some mistake.
Mr. WILLIAMS thought that, as the present form was by
some persons considered objectionable, the better way would
be to prepare another.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that persons dissent-
ing had no,right to impose their own forms. '.hey were to as-
sent or dissentin the form prescnbed.
Mr. WILLIAMS said, the present form was objected to
because it was considered illegal.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL replied, that no act of the
Bank could affect any right to which an individual might con-
sider himself entitled.

Mr. MARTIN confirmed the statement of Mr. Williams as
to the difficulty raised at the Bank as to receiving any altered
form of dissent.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed that
the Bank had no right to prescribe the form of the notice of
dissent. Any form which clearly expressed dissent would be
sufficient. He would send to the Bank on the subject.
Mr. WILLIAMS begged the Right Hon. Gentleman would
say what remedy the holder in question had for the injury
which it was now admitted he had sustained by the refusal of
the 'link to receive his dissent in the altered form ; he had now
lost his turn of being paid off in the numerical order.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured the
Hon. Member, that no injury would be ultimately sustained
by the individual in question. He (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) thought he might safely promise, that all those who
dissented should be paid off in one day.—(A laugh.)
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, it would be proper to intro-
duce a clause of indemnity for the Bank of Ireland, similar to
that which had been introduced for the Bank of England.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assented to
the propriety of indemnifying the Irish Bank; but he believed
no responsibility had been incurred.
The Bill was then read a third time.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then brought
up a clause, giving the Accountenant-General of the Court of
Chancery and the Remembrancer of the Exchequer thremonths
time to dissent in respect of the stock of the suitors of those
Courts, standing in the names of those officers.
The clause was read three times without any opposition, and
added to the Bill.

Mr. HUME moved for leave to bring up a clause, depriving
the Bank of any additional remuneration in respect of the sum
which might be added to the debt by the operation of the pre-
sent Bill. He had understood from the Honourable Mem-
ber for Devizes, that the Bank did not intend to make any
charge on thii account. The present clause was necessary ;
for, unless it was passed,. the Bank would be entitled to
3001. upon every million added to the debt by the operation
of the present Bill. The Act upon which they would be en-
titled to it was passed in 1808, and was founded upon an agree-
ment between Mr. Perceval, the then Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, and the Bank ; but when that Act was passed, such
a measure as the present could not possibly have been con-
templated. He presumed there would therefore be no objec-
tion to the clause, which he accordingly moved should be
brought up.
Mr. MANNING said, the Hon. Member for Aberdeen must
have mistaken the meaning of his Hon. Friend the Member for
Devizes, who was now absent. His Hon. Friend said that the
Bank would snake no charge for the transfer from one fund to
another. This related to all who assented to the present mea-
sure. For this the Bank never expected any payment. But it
had never been said that the Bank intended to forego the usual
consideration under the Act of 1808. The depriving them of
this would be a breach of their compact between Parliament
and the Bank. The Bank were responsible for all forgeries
which might be committed in the course of the present transac-
tion, and the adopting of the present clause would of course be
relieving them from this liability.
Mr. GRENFELL could see no reason for making-the pre-
sent transaction an additional charge upon the public. The
House had, during the present Session, shewn a proper desire
to watch over the expenditure of the public money. The House
had come to a resolution (for which he had voted) in substance
reducing two Lords of the Admiralty ; and if the House should
reject the present clause, that resolution would in effect be ne-
gatived. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Manning) had assumed
that the Act of 1808 was a permanent measure; but upon this
subject there were different opinions; and he (Mr. G.) who
thought it was not a permanent measure, had, lie believed, the
opinion of the Hon. Member for Corfe Castle to support his
own. That Act was founded merely upon a letter from Mr.
Perceval to the Bank. lie thought it was incumbent on the
House to make a stand, although merely with a view to not
establishing such a precedent.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not
consent to the admission of such a clause into the Bill, without
a previous understanding to that effect with the Bank. The
Bank had a fair claim to remuneration, as they would have as
much trouble in the future operation of this measure, as they
had hitherto experienced before its introduction.
Mr. HUME observed, that the Right Hon. the Secretary
for the Woods and Forests, (Mr. Huskisson) was of a different
opinion with regard to the operation of this measure, than that
entertained by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He had dis-
tinctly stated on a former night, that the consequence of it
would be that the Bank would have a smaller sum to pay, and
considerably less trouble.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he believed the.
Bank were ready to take upon themselves the additional trouble,
without making any charge for it, but the question, for the
House to decide upon did not refer to that, but whether the
additional capital advanced by the Bank was to have the usual
allowance or not. And in his opinion there was neither motive
nor principle for Parliament departing from the usual practice'
on the present occasion. The amount of the charge upon the
additional six millions would only be 3001. a million.
Lord J. RUSSELL reminded the Noble Marquis that he
had proffered himself on a late occasion as willing and anxious
to make a saving, even of the smallest amount. The present
question was for a saving to the public in the shape of an in-
crease of burden.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY maintained that the
question was not as to an amount of saving to be effected, but
whether Parliament was to keep faith with the Bank under an
existing law.
After a few words from Mr. Gin's, Mr. RICARDO, and Mr.
Williams, the motion was negatived without a division ; and
the Bill was then passed.
MR. HUNT'S 111IPRISONN1ENT.
Sir F. BURDETT gave notice, that he should on Wednes-
day se'nnight move an Address to the Crown, praying a re-
mission of the further imprisonment of Mr. Henry Hunt.
A Message from the Lords announced that their Lordships
had passed a Bill, entitled the Attorneys' and Solicitors Regu-
lation Amendment Bill.

SUPERANNUATION ACT.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY moved the Order of
the Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee on the
Superannuation Act.
The SPEAKER having left the Chair,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose. It was
generally understood by the House that it was his intention to
propose some amendments in the provision of this Act, in con-
sequence of measures of 'eduction which his Majesty's Govern-
ment had lately effected in various departments of the State.—
He need not remind the House that those measures had been
entered upon in pursuance of the declared wishes of the House,
and in compliance with his Majesty's commands. Having stat-
ed this, he would proceed in the clearest manner possible to
point out the course which had hitherto been pursued with re-
ference to superannuation allowances, and then he would detail
the deviation from that course which had been adopted by his
Iklajesty's Government in their late proceedings. With regard
to the first, the Committee would allow him to remind them
that previously to the Act of the fiftieth of the late King, regu-
lating the allowances under the head of Superannuations, great
difficulty existed as to the mode of providing for the support of
public officers, who, from infirmity, became incapable of con-
tinuing in, their situations. It had been considered that a legal
right existed in the Treasury through the Crown, of making
grants of superannuation pensions ; but up to the 30th year of
the late King the instances of such grants were not numerous,
the practice having been to provide for such cases by the gift of
sinecures, most of which had since been suppressed, or by ar-
rangement with the successor of the individual to make a cer-
tain compensation out of the emolument of office. The Corn-
mission relating to public accounts in the year 1782, first recom-
mended a system of superannuation, which was taken up by 'a
Committee of the House in 1797, and a system was adopted by '
the Government of that period, at the recommendation of the
Treasury, which soon came into general practice, it being found
extremely desirable that the servants of the Crown, when no
longer capable of acting, should be provided for. In 1783,
those arrangements were effected which formed the ground-
work of the Act of 1010. According to that Act' the rates of
superannuation allowance were very rarely to be permitted to
exceed the amount of salary enjoyed by the individual; but that
Act had led to great and unnecessary expense to the public,
although it would not be found that either the letter or the spirit
of it had been departed from. No extraordinary increase of pen-
sions had been made, except in the case of persons above 60 years
of age. He would not, however, take up the time of the House
with details of this nature, but would take the liberty to refer
them to accounts which would shortly be laid before the House
on the subject. The Treasury had called for Returns from all
the different Departments up to May last. These Returns had
been made out, with full particulars of name and amount, with
reasons annexed, in order to enable the House to form a correct
judgment of the application of the Fund. To these abstracts,'
which would shortly . be presented, he referred the House, as
offering a complete view of the retrenchments which had been
made, and wherein they consisted, shewing in detail, how the
different Department 4 in' the State stood up to last May, and

on what footing they would continue for the future, in cons&
quence of the regulations which had been adopted. When
' these came to be seen by the House, it would be found with
I how little justice it had been asserted that previously to the
present meeting of Parliament no effectual; steps for retrench.
• ment had been commenced by his Majesty's Government.—
• (Hear, hear !)—Those who made that charge must have been
perfectly ignorant of the measures which it was matter of public
0 notoriety were going on the whole of last summer.—(Hear,
hoar !)—He would next call the attention of the House to the
operation of the Act of .1810, as appeared by Returns from
• the great Revenue Departments of the State, which he held in
his hand. This paper was a return from the Offices of the Cm.
I toms, Excise, Stamps, and Post-office. It shewed the total
amount of Salaries for these four departments to be 1,664,0901.
and the number of persons employed 17,347 ; of these, the
number of superannuations were, 1,732, bearing the proportion
of one to ten to the persons on actual service ; and the amount
in money was in the proportion of nine and a quarter per cent.
on the amount of salaries. The average amount of annual allow-
ance to each individual was thus, 891.105. or4s.lod. a day,lwhich
he hoped would not be thought a very large allowance for pub-
. lic servants, who had become infirm from a long series of active
and laborious duty. From the regulation for admitting only
young persons into the public departments, it appeared clearly
that much had been saved in the -item of superannuations.—
The usual term of service before this regulation was twenty-
nine years. In the Treasury, and the other principal Executive
Offices of State, the number of persons employed was found to
be 9.52. Out of this number the superannuations were only 70,.
being a smaller proportion than he had shewn in the Revenue
Departments. The reason might be found in the circumstance
that those who advanced in the higher departments of public
offices were less disposed to leave their situations. The amount
of salaries of this number was 205,0001. ; and of superannua-
tons 23,0001., being a per centage of lli on the whole. The
reason of the rate per cent. being higher for these departments,.
, than for the Revenue Office, was, that a more liberal allowance
was granted to those who had held higher situations in the
State. The average term of service had been 26 years. In-
cluding all the public offices of Great Britain, the number of
persons employed appeared to be as follows :
Number in active employment - 18,329
Receiving superannuation allowances - 1,802
Total amount of salaries - - - .R 1,875,000
Total amount of superannuation pensions - 177,000
The perions superannuated being to the persons in employment
as one to ten. The total amount of superannuations were in
the proportion of 91 per cent. on the total of salaries, and the
average term of service had been 29 years. He felt therefore
entitled to say that the operation of the Act of 1810 had been
in every respect just and fair to the public and the servants of
the Crown. He was willing to admit that there were many de-
fects in that Act ; one of those defects which it was his wish to
amend was the want of equability betwixt the scale of allow-
ances, and the period at which the parties became entitled to
those allowances. For instance, by the regulations of the Act
in question, a person who had served ten years and under 20,
was entitled to retire on half his salary; but from twenty to
forty-five years service there was no increase. It was therefore
plain that a great number would be induced to retire after 20 years
service. There was also a regulation that none under 65 years of
age should have more than three-fourths of his salary ; but it ap-
peared to be much more advantageous that a scale of progres-
sive increase should be established. He should propose as the
best mode of effecting this, that the whole period of service
should be divided into terms of five years, adding one-twelfth
of the amount of salary for each term of five years. At the
same time that he should propose some regulation of this kind,
he should also propose to leave a discretionary power to fix a
rate of allowance without reference to these rules. He intend-
ed this to meet cases wherein the appointments were of a nature
that precluded their being held by young men. For instance,
the situation of Solicitor to the Treasury obviously required
those qualifications which a young man could not be expected
to possess. A Gentleman for such a post must be a man of
experience, learning, and high character at the Bar, and it
would be unjust to place a person so endowed on a level with
a young man of seventeen, who entered at the bottom of the
list into office. He proposed' to vest, by the Bill, which he
should submit to the House, a power in the Treasury to meet
such cases, with a proviso that all such extraordinary allow-
ances be laid before Parliament at its next meeting, with the
reasons on which the Thasury found their grant. Another
defect in the Act was, that it did not point out in a sufficiently
clear way those that were entitled to claim superannuation al-
lowance. In the Bill, by which be proposed to supplant this
Act, he should provide that all persons should be entitled,
provided they had served during the time prescribed. Judicial
and Exchequer appointments were to be considered as special
in this particular, the Treasury exercising this qualified power
of fixing the amount, of pension. But in ordei to render the
principle of Superannuation as equitable as possible, he should
propose that those who upon retirement were to be entitled to
claim a participation, should, during their service, contribute
towards the fund. This might be regarded as a reduction of
salary, but it was thought a", more unobjectionable mode to
make a reduction of that nature contribute towards this provi-
sion against the evils of infirtnity, rather than by a mere act of '
authority to cut down a portion of salary at once. The benefit
was thus divided betwixt the public and the party suffering the
diminution. He purposed, therefore, in pursuance of this prin-
ciple, that a diduction for this purpose should be made on every
salary above 1001. of 5 per cent.; and under that sum, and
above 501. of 21 per cent. By referring to the papers lie had
already spoken of, it would be found by companne the aggre-
gate amount of the superannuation pensions, with the aggre-
gate amount of salaries, that the average rate upon the latter
was 10 per cent., so that 5 per. cent. off all the salaries would
cover one-half, and be a proportionate saving to the pub-
lic. It was his intention;deo to propose to effect certain
reductions in salaries, to eornmence, however, with the ,
successors to those at present in office, whom he desired
to leave in the full enjoyment of the salaries they now
had, with the exception of a reduction of 10 per cent. upon that
portion of salary it was intended to remit on the next appoint-
ment. Thus one who now had a stipend of 10001. a year, which it
was intended to reduce to 8001., would pay 5 per cent. upon the
8001. and 10 per cent. on the other 2001. He assured the House
that it was much easier to stand up there and propose reductions
of 25 per cent. and such like, than to carry them into effect out
of doors. Even those who made the proposals, when they came
to find how difficult and painful the.task was, would not have
the heart to execute them. The reduction which Government
had made already had been sufficiently painful. After labo-
rious inquiry, assisted by every official return that could throw
light on the subject of investigation, a circular had been ad-
dressed to all the Heads of Departments by the Lords of the
Treasury, laying down the principles upon which reductions
were to be effected. The object inculcated was, the reducing
salaries and establishments to a level with those which existed
in 1796 and 1797, as far as was practicable. These principles
had throughout been the guide of their operations, and he hoped
his Majesty's Government would receive due credit for the dili-
gence they had used. He would shew the House how these
principles had been made to operate on the Treasury. In 1796
the numbers of that Department were :—two secretaries, four
clerks, six assistant clerks, ten supernumerary clerks, and
others, making in all 30 persons. The whole amount of their
salaries was 20,0001. On the sth of January last, there were
two secretaries, one assistant secretary, four chief clerks, one
assistant, six senior clerks, eleven assistant clerks, and fourteen
junior clerks, which with twebie persons in the Revenue branch,
and one other, made 53 in the whole. Upon a comparison of
the business done in this department now and in 1796, it ap-
peared that in the latter year the number of papers registered
and examined was 4,463. In 1821 the number of papers- con-
sidered and registered was 24,890, the former being only one-
sixth of the latter. With regard to emolument, it appeared
that the average annual receipts of a Secretary to the Treasury,
For the three years ending 1779, was - - £3,400
For the three years ending 1781 - - - 5,100
For the three years ending 1797 - - - 3,400
For the three years ending 1800 - - - 4,000
It was now proposed to restore the amount to 3,5001., nearly
what it was in 1797. The Chief Clerk, in the years from 177t5
to 1781, received 1,2781., when in the year 1797 it was reduced
to 8801., but the clerks had then assistants, which had since
been abolished. It appeared, therefore, that in point of pe-
cuniary emolument their situations were as valuable then as
they are now, their salary being 1,2001. The establishment
was to be composed of two secretaries, one assistant, four chief
clerks, one additional, six senior clerks, and eleven assistants,
making, with the Revenue clerks, thirty-six persons, the nartn-
ber in 1797 having been thirty. He next called upon the House
to compare the aggregate amount of salary, and in the statement
he was about to make he particularly required the House to con-
' sider the propriety of making the rise in salary dependant upon
the progress of time, and not upon promotion. It must cer-
tainly appear very hard that a person should remain at the
lowest rate of salary merely because an opportunity for pro-
motion did not occur. The regulations for the future were as
follows :—The chief clerks were to receive 1,2001. ; the senior
clerks 6001. with an allowance of 201. a year till they reach
8001., which would require ten years service. The assistant
clerks and juniors, from the time they enter the office till fif-
teen years, were to have 3001., and at the end of twenty years
4001. till they became chief clerks. They were to begin at
1501. and continue at that for three years, after which time they
were to receive an annual increase of 101. An assistant clerk,
who now received 3001. a year, and a consideration for length of
service, was to receive 3001. a year, and 151. annually, till it
reached 5001. but no claim for previous service. The at Es; MU m
was the same, but the progression was very different. The senior
clerks for the future were to have 6001. a year, but not beyond 8001.
and when it was considered that there was so small a number of
persons at the Head of the Treasury Department, and that they
held their offices so long, that sum would not appear too much..

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