The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-08 00:00:00

to the vile, meddling, inconsistent, and false policy every-
! where pursued by this country—the policy of touching.
everything, and gresping nothing—forgetting the gar-
dener's proverb. "he who would touch a nettle must
grasp it. If they went on in an open way they might
foresee a war, and they would be prepared for it. Through
no fault of their own, through no mistake in their policy,
yet they might be involved in a war, and then how was
their navy to be manned and maintained? Before that
series of immortal victories which had handed down to
fame the names of our St. Vincenta and our Nelsons, cur
Duncans and our Howes, and which were the glory of our
military service--just previous to the breaking out of the
war which led to then brilliant and immortal achieve-
ments, they had only 16,000 sailors in the navy in all
their ports and in all the King's ships. In less than six
weeks 35,000 were added to the number.—(Cheers.)
Whence came they? were they landsmen they had en-
listed? No such thing. They were sailors from the
mercantile marine. When the war had exhausted the
navy, and they had had recourse to the fatal system cf
eeltsling quota men, as they were called, from the pa-
rishes, there was seen one of the most disgraceful rcencs
which the country bad ever known—the mutiny at the
Nore was entirely owing to their having recourse to
landsmen in manning their ships. In place of the
16 000 seamen, their numbers now were nearly doubled
—instead of 16,000 being maintained on a peace estab-
lishment, they had now 32,000 or 33,000, and there-
fore the increase in the mercantile navy as a
nursery for the Royal navy was not out of
proportion. He spoke in times when ho would be a
bold man who would take upon himself to predict that
the peace of Europe would be maintained. God avert
the omen, but when they looked across the Channel and
saw a Republic whose fate was yet suspended in the ba-
lance and which rested upon a comprehensive military
organization, who could say how long the peace of the
world would be maintained? He knew very well why
the troops had been sent to Civita, Vecchia; it was
neither to restore the Pope or because Austtia, bad
threatened to interfere; it was because no French NU-

nieter—no French President—durst refuse the French
people, at least the people of Paris, an object on which
they were bent. That was why the troops had been
sent to the Papal States; that was why th general in
command had written a letter for publication in Paris,
declaring that he had 'ended all his troops without firing
a shot. Why should they have fired a shot when there
was no one to oppose them? Who could answer for the
peace of Europe with that population in such a state?
a population which had nearly driven the most peace
able Minister under Louis Philippe to march an army
across the Alps. He rejoiced at the great and glorious
victories obtained by Marshal Radetzky, and only la-
mented that he had not completed his work by occupying
Turin.—(Hear.) That was an error, because such an
act of foolish forbearance bad led to bloodshed at Genoa
and elsewhere. The great victories and the humanity of
Marshal Radetzay had preserved Piedmont; Genoa was
now at peace, and the people were now throwing off
the yoke of the most base and degraded mob leaders
which had ever infested a country, and he trusted that
the Romans were now pacified, and zealously setting
about the establishment of order. Still no wan could
leok at the peninsula and be sure of the continuance of
peace. In Germany, from the Baltic to the Adriatic,
there was one disposition animating all breasts, a de-
sire to shale existing institutions, and subvert the
thrones which yet remained. The Russians had
marched to the. north, in order to save Hungary from
the anarchy induced by her Polish invaders. Look-
ing at all there things, who could predict with confi-
dence that at the end of three months all Europe would
remain in a state of perfect peace?—(Hear.) Was that
time well chosen for making such a change? They
were in 1849, the year atter that year of revolutions,
1848, before the waves of rebellion had subsided—was
that the time for making a great and sweeping change
in that system by which the navy had been created and
maintained—was it at such a time that they were about
to reduce their thousand ships to hundreds—was it at
such a time as that, when they might be called upon to
struggle for very existence—was unit the time to break
up that system which provided such a nursery for the
navy? At any time it must be impolitic, but it was
hardly safe to do it then. Was there any pressure fur
the measure—any pressure from without? The friends
of the Government were saying that they would do no-
thing—they were not bold Ministers. Now boldness was
an excellent thing in any one; in a Minister it was an
admirable quality—boldness of the right kind, boldness
to refuse all pressure from without—(Hear, hear)—
boldness to conceive measures for the good of the coun-
try, and boldness to propose them, careless to whom he
might give offence. There was another kind of boldness
—a boldness in bringing forward largo measures and put-
ting great interests in jeopardy. '1 hat was a boldness for
which he had no admiration. That was a boldness; but
the Minister was not bold at his own cost and charges,
not bold in las own person, bat vicariously—a boldness
wherein the Minister did not confront his enemies, but
made the country confront its perils. If they gave up
that nursery for their seamen, why should they go on
spending the fifteen or sixteen millions on the army and
navy? A certain sect had lately sprung up, calling
themselves "free-traders," but with whom real free-
traders could hold no communion, and employed them-
selves in preaching the reduction of all our great esta-
blishments. He was strongly of opinion that the step
they were invited to take by her Majesty's Government
was one which they could not wisely nor safely take,
because if once taken they could not retrace it. The
coasting trade was to be left untouched, and the re-
straints on the seamen were not abrogated; so that
another agitation would be got up—another Ricardo
would spring up, in order to have the last remnant of
the system thrown overboard; and if the Bill passed he
would say that it would be difficult to meet them. lie
had stated the grounds upon which he rested his oppo-
sition to the tuPnsure. He had looked at the ques-
tion and applied his mind to its consideration
with an absolute forbearance of all party motives
—a throwing over of all personal feelings whatever, and
he had discharged his duty in stating his opinion to the
House. It was for their Lordships to deal with the
measure. If the Bill were rejected, certain consequences,
they were told, would result. Now, if it were a matter
of minor importance he wind.' have no hesitation in yield-
ing to his Noble Friend, for he desired no change, but
when the fate of the mercantile marine, as well as the
safety of the royal navy was at stake, his duty compelled
him to a strenuous opposition to the measure the conse-
quence of which he so much dreaded. He desired no
change whatever—he desired success to no party what-
ever, except to those who woule honestly and manfully
do their duty to the Queen and their country.—(Cheers.)
What would be the effect of the measure upon the
accursed slave trade? It would increase and stimulate
that trade; for whatever tended to cheapen the car-
riage of sugar of Brazil would increase the slave trade
on the coasts of Africa. When that fact was thrown
into the bitter cup to sweeten it, he could assure their
Lordships that it was a question on which he could
come to no compromise whatever. Believing his argu-
ments to be sound, as an honest man, as an English-
man, and as a Peer of Parliament, ho felt bound to
say that ho must oppose the further progress of the
measure.
Lord GRANVILLE did not think he was called upon
to enter into the question as to whether this Bill inter-
fered with the free-trade policy, nor to follow the Noble
Lord in the various observations addressed by him to
their Lordships' House; but it certainly did appear to
him with respect to tho measure of free trade, and to
the proposed change in the navigation-law r, that the
more they endeavoured to remove restrictions from com-
merce, and the more they endeavoured to destroy CTell
a limited monopoly, the better it would prove for the in-
terests of the country. The Noble and Learned Lord
(Lord Brougham) had alluded to the commercial diffi-
culties of the question, and in that respect was more in-
clined to believe the opinions of the :shipowners. Now
as to the petitions of the shipowners, it was to be ob
served that they were the persons to whom they meant
to apply the stimulus of' competition. lie bad a great
respect for the shipowners, and he did not think they
would willingly mislead the public; but ho doubted
whether they themselves felt the alarms which they
stated they apprehended from the passing of this
measure —(Hear, hear.) There were not more ships for
sale at the present time than in former years, and
ships were in progress of being built at Southampton
and other places. Ho doubted whether ninny who
took part against the present measure knew what the
provisions of the navigation-laws were, or how they
would be affected by their repeal.—(Hear, hear.) They
had a large body of merchants who were apprehending
great danger from the repeal of these laws. Seeing.
however, the great increase of trade which had taken
place cf late years, seal that free-trade had added to the
wealth of the country, and materially increased the car-
rying trade, he thought it was necessary that ncorre-
spornling change should take place in their maritime
system. He would now allude to their warehousing
system, and it appealed that the American Government
had sent a gentleman over to this country to inquire
into its operation, and to make himself acquainted with
the working of the law. That gentleman had made a
report, and be held in his hand an American paper, in
which the operation of the warehousing system was
inv.stigat d and strongly recommended for adop-
tion in America, on account of its advantages to the
commerce, the tonnage, and the • revenue.—(Bear,
hear.) The benefit the system had conferred on the
country could not indeed be denied. Under their naviga-
tion-laws the foreigner might send his produce in any
ship he pleased, while at the same time if a merchant in
their colonies did so, the ships and cargo would be seized.
—(lean) The fact was, that the merchants found
trade forced into a certain channel by. the navigation-
laws, and it might be if that channel was somewhat
widened it would bring in competitors, which would of
course diminish the profits of those hitherto engaged in
the shipping trade. The Noble Lord then referred to
the evidence given before the Lords' Committee as to
the operation of the navigation-laws, and contended that
no one could doubt the advantages which a relaxation of
those laws would confer on the country. ' The merchant
win sure to do better by being leis to himself. The
Noble Lord next referred to shipping returns for a
number of years past, for the purpose of showing the
advantages which competition secured, and especially in
regulating the prices of freight. lie next alluded to that'
branch of the question which was involved in ship bu
ing, and said that whatever might be the car as regarded
a certain class of vessels, it was quite certain that ships
of the bettei class could be built cheaper in this country
than in any other part of the world. The. Bill on
the table, if passed into law would be a self-acting law.
If any danger existed of competition between this coun-
try and America, it would be well to strike while the
iron was hot, and place the commerce carried on between
the countries on a safe and solid footing.—(Hear, hear.)
He did not think it would become the greatest commer-
cial country in the world to begin a war of tariffs.—
(llee r, hear.) It• was complained that when they were
rutting loose the ha , :go trade, they bad not at the same
Lime let loose the wasting trade also; but as to the latter
it was clear that eo foreigner would enter into competi-
tion with them. As to the British sailor, he believed
pursuits, and
• him to have a natural aptitude for nutrition

that all he wanted was good treatment and to be fairly
remunerated. He believed that two-thirds of the seamen
in the American service were British, and although the
Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) had said that
the Americana worked their seamen harder and fed them
worse, ho (Lord Granville) could not understand, if
that were the case, how it teas that so many of the Bri-
tish seamen should enter into the American service. In
regard to the statistiesl part of the subject, he suspected
from the manner in which the Noble and Learned Lord
who had last spoke had inveighed against statistics, that
he had found those statistics to tell against himself.—
(Hear, hear.) Ile thought, however, considering the
high position that Noble Lord occupied—the many emi-
nent stations and exalted offices he bad held under the
Crown, as well as considering the commanding and sar-
castic natttre of his eloquence—that he ought not to have
emne down there and made the unjust and unprovoked
attack ho had done on Mr. Porter—(Hear, hear)—
of the Board of Trade. That Gentleman could not be
there to answer for himself.; and, therefore, the attack
wes all the more uncourteous. That gentleman having
been desired to make up a statement of the comparative
! increase which had taken place in protected and unpro-
tected trade, had stated that while protected trade had
only increased 94 per cent., unprotected trade had in-
cream d 200 per cent. That statement was in the main
correct, and it showed that the navigation-laws, instead
of increasing, was a drawback upon the increase of trade.
With regard to Denmark, where they could build
ships much cheaper than in this country, and conse-
quently had in that respect the advantage of them, yet
it was a curious fact, that the direct trade of Denmark
should be three times as Much as its indirect, and that
they were at this moment advertising for British sea-
men to man their vessels. So far as America was con-
cerned, there could be no-dread of competition. It was
true that since 1815 the tennage of American
vessels had increased 108 per cent., the great increase
being en the coasting trade, while our trade had increased
45 per cent. But yeas there no difference in the popula-
tion of the two countries? It was the fact, that while
in that time the population of this country had only in-
creased 57 per cent., that of America had increased 143
or 144 per cent. So that while the tonnage of American
ships had increased as 362, its population had increased
361. lie at once admitted that could ho see the slightest
chance of this Bill injuring their commercial marine,
and committing the ravage on commerce which it
was predicted it would do, ho would oppose it most
strenuously; but seeing that the people of this
country were as able to compete in shipbuilding, as well
as in everything else, he had no fear that any of the
evils predicted would befall them. At this moment there
was no country which had ships and sailors to compete
with them at once; the change must be gradual, and
therefore time would be given before the struggle cline,
and as to the result of that struggle he had no doubt.
Lord BIiOUGHAM, in explanation, said that Mr.
Porter was a witness examined bt fore ie Committee of
their Lordships' House, and therefore it was his right
and duty to animadvert upon his evidence.

L)rd -00LOLIESTER said before making any altera-
tion in these laws, they ought to learn what were the in-
tentions of their authors and what had been • their re-
sults.

Lord STRANGFORD said that though he sat close
to the Noble Lord (Lord Colchester), yet he could not
hear one word in consequence of the noise below the
bar.

Lord COLCHESTER resumed, but was equally in-
audible throughout. His arguments went to show how
protection had and would operate beneficially on the '
capital, commerce, and interest of shipbuilders and sea-
men of this country.
The Duke of ARGYLE felt it his duty to give his
reasons for voting in favour of the Bill. fie considered
that there were three great general points on which that
measure should be discussed. First, on the principal of
free trade; secondly, its own intrinsic merit; and,
thirdly, on the political situation of the country. On the
Grit ho believed that his opinions did not disagree with
those of their Lordships. The arguments of the Protec-
tionists wculd go back to a repeal the reciprocity
treaties; but he confessed that he could see much in mo-
dern commerce to encourage them to go forward in the
principles of relaxation, although their acts might not be
based upon reciprccity. It appeared to him that several
natural causes were in eperation to encourage the Baltic
powers in securing the direct trade to their shipping. In
considering the consequences of reciprocity, they should
also have some consideration for the certain cense.
quences which must have resul ed from the adoption
of a contrary policy. They could not take a middle
course; they must have reciprocity either iu restriction
or relaxation, and in either alternative it behoved them
to consid( r the results of this retaliatory policy. From
a very able answer to Mr. Ricardo's " Anatomy of the
Navigation Laws," entitled " Mr. Ricardo's Anatomy
of the Navigation Laws Dissected," it appeared that in
1815 the reciprocity treaties were passed, and that in
1830 the English tonnage reached the height from
which it fell in 1790, but which it had previously been
unable to attain. From the returns of the tonnage in
the Baltic trade, also, it appeared that the English
tonnage exceeded 22-fold that of the Baltic Powers; and
hence arose the presumption that when the Baltic
ships were admitted to competition in foreign quarters,
they would not very considerably distress them. If he
thought the t this measure were at all calculated to produce
a prejudicial effect on the commerce of the country, no
consideration whatever—not even the threatened resig-
uation of the Government should induce him to support
it. But believing that it had no such tendency, he
should not hesitate to give it his unqualified and cordial
assent.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGFI said he agreed with
his Noble Friend near him, that between the question
of free trade, and the question raised by this Bill, there
wai no connexion whatever. On termer occasions, when
he happened to be in England, he had voted for mea-
sures, the effect of which was to produce a relaxation in
their commercial code. Be had voted for those mea-
sures because he thought they tended to increase the
wealth of the country, without danger to its essential in-
terests. Ile would vote against this measure, because
he believed, that while it might possibly tend to increase
the wealth of the country, it went directly to under-
mine one of its nearest and most important interests.
It was impossible to exaggerate the importance of
looking to the mercantile navy as the source from
whence the navy of the country was to ba recruited.
lip to the present time they had maintained their supre-
macy at sea with honour and advantage t 3 themselves,
and he did not doubt that were they called upon to
fight to morrow, their men would distinguish themselves
for their courage end national devotion, as they had
ever done. But the maintenance of their supremacy
would depend upon the issuo of the fight, and though
he hoped it would not be doubtful, still he could not
disguise the fact that much would depend upon the
commencement of the battle, an.' that France at the
present moment was better prepared than they. She
had a lsrger disposable force ready to engage in Euro-
pean warfare, the same number of ships, with a larger
number of men and marines, and better means of re-
cruiting them. In considering that fact, and the ease
with which a force might be transported from point
to point, by a steam navy, it behoved them to be ex-
tremely cautious how, by a measure of this sort, they
rendered their position still weaker by comparison.
The Noble Lard then referred to to a petition from a
body of persons in the West Indies, setting forth the
importance of the interests of trade, and of relaxing the
restrictions affecting it. Ho also referred to the Cana-
dians, who, if any body were entitled more than another
to a relaxation in their favour of the restrictions on na-
vigation, were, in his opinion, molt so; but he would
not, he said, be swayed by eilh,r West Indian or Ca-
nedian; he should rather be directed in this question
by a reference to the more immediate interests of Eng-
lishmen. He felt that if the inhabitants of the pro-
vinces of this great empire banded themselves together
in a mutual compact for mutual benefits, they might
defy the world, but if they made the acquisition of
wealth the sole and main object of their legislation, be
assured they would fall as other nations had dune be-
fore them, and when they fell, it would be "unwept,
unhonoured, and disgraced."
The Elul of CARLISLE rose, and moved that the
debate be adjourned to this day.
Their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter past Twelve
o'clock.

APPEARANCE OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS LAST
EVENINCL—The lobbies and avenues to the House of
Lords last evening were crowded as early as four o'clock
by those persons who were fortunate enough to possess
Peers' orders to the strangers' gallery, which wascrowded
to excess. The whole of the space below the bar was
likewise fully occupied, as it always is on the evening
of a great discussion. The space at the foot of the
throne was crowded by gentlemen possessiog the right
of entree. In the Commons' galery there were
about twenty gentlemen, and the ladies' gallery, on
the opposite side, was more than half filled with
elegantly dressed ladies, who appeared to take a great
interest in the proceedings. The attendance of Peers
was early and numerous, the Marquis of Lansdowne
appearing in full dress—" his constant custom " on field-
nights.
DEBUT OF Mn. F. PEEL IN THE HOUSE OF COM-
MONS.—The son of Sir Robert Peel, the newly-elected
Member fur Leominster, made his maiden speech
last evening, in favour of the second reading of the
Bill for the emancipation of the Jews, and never
have we heard a more successful maiden speech. The
Hon. Gentleman has all the requisites for an orator.
In voce, and manner, and personal appearance,
he bears a great resemblance to his illustrious
father. His speech was not only eloquent
but logical, and full of sound sense. He is
in every way worthy of his sire. He was much cheered,
more particularly from the Ministerial benches,
and has evidently done that which few Members do in
a maiden speech, secured the ear of the House of Com-
LOOM

BURGLARY.—A daring attempt was made on Sa-
turday night last to break into the back premises of
Messrs. Giilott, Admiralty tailors, :26, Strand; toiled in
their object by the strength of the fastenings, the thieves
turned their attention to the houses on either side, both
of which they succeeded in entering. They carried off
a considcrable booty from the .Lowther Bazaar, and did
much damage to 131. r. Taylor's, No. 37, by breaking open
desks, drawers, &e., but fortunately did not find much
there to reward their labours.
The establishment of an American line of steam-
ships between New York end Havre is no longer doubt-
ful ; and the steam ship Franklin, which is as yet but
halt-finished, has been purchased for the service by
Mews. Fox and Livingston, of New York. She will be
ready for sea in about three months ; and the keel of
a second steamer is to be immediately laid down,—
Liverpool Albion.