The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-09 00:00:00

issued under the Poor Relief Bill. In these circulars it
was stated that no one could claim relief under the Act
until they gave up their land, with the exception of a
quarter ut at, acre; but that should the lstritil nrd refuse
to accept ut the property- so given up, the families could
in that case claim relief. lle wished to know whether
these circulars hau been acted on?
Sir W. SOMERVILLE was understood to say that,
so far as he was aware, the circular had been issued under
the authority of the Act, and acted on.
Mr. SLANEY had supported the Government gene-
rally, but he had not great faith in their measur. s as
regarded Ireland. He rose, however, to ask a single
question. He thought that however much the English
people had already subscribed for the relief of Ireland,
he had no doubt but that were a subscription got up,
many would still be willing to rubsciibe again, and he
therefore wanted to know from the Secretary for Ireland,
or any one else, whether any Committee bad been ap-
p Anted for receiving such subscriptions? He thought
the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Meath, was wrong
in blaming the English Parliament for the evils which
had befallen Ireland, as these in a great measure had
been caused by a dispensation of Providence. He trusted,
however, that from the measure already passed, and
these before the House, a better state of matters would
be brought about.
Mr. SCULLY said there was at present a Committee
of the kind the Hon. Gentleman retered to in existence
in Dublin, presidt d over by the Hon. Member for Kil-
dare, and which Committee would be glad to receive
subscriptions from England or any where else. In re-
gard to the statement which the lion. Member for Sur-
rey had called attention to, as to the evictions at the in-
stance of the Rev. Massy Dawson, he was not in the
House at the time such statement was read; but he un-
derstood the facts stated i❑ reference to the extent of
those evictions vt ere not denied. Having lately come
from Tipperary, he could state as to the extent the
system was carried on there, and until the area of taxa-
tion was narrowed and the landlord made liable for the
support of parties so evicted, such evictions would pro-
ceed and multiply. It was said that those ejected by
the Rev. Gentleman were rogues and vagabonds; but so
far from that being the case, he believed a great many of
them were honest and industrious people.
Mr. DRUAIMOND said what he complained of was,
the bringing the private characters of gentlemen before
that House in the manner that the Rev. Gentleman had
been.

The subject then dropped, and the motion that the
House at its rising do adjourn to Monday, was then
agreed to.

POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved that the House go into
Committee on the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill.
Sir W. H. BARRON said previous to the House
going into Committee on that Bill, he had to submit to
the House the amendment of which he had given notice,
which was, " That the property at present rated to sup-
port the poor in Ireland is totally inadequate for that
purpose ; that in England there are sixty-seven
millions of property rated to the poor, the population
being about fi. teen millions; whilst in Ireland there
are only thirteen millions of property rated to
the poor, with a (much poorer) population of
about eight millions; showing nearly three times more
property in England per head to support the poor than
in Ireland; that, therefore, it is necessary to provide
further means for support of the pour of Ireland, in
order to remove the extreme pressure which is now
crushing down the rate-payers in that country, and
checking the energies of all employers and capitalists."
It was imp ,ssihle to apply the same law and expect that
such law would be carried out in Ireland, on the same
principles as it existed in England. They had nume-
rous complaints even here at the amount of po sr-rates,
and in Ireland, suffering the distress which it now did,
was it possible that such a law which created so much
dissatisfaction in England, could be at all workable
in Ireland? A great portion of the property in Ireland
had been almost annihilated already by this futile pro.
ject of an Irish poor-law. In 1a46 Mc. O'Connell,
who knew Ireland better than any man who ever sat
for it within that House, prophesied that such a law
would reduce Ireland to misery and destitution. His
prophecy had unfortunately proved but too true, as had
been fully established by the evidence taken before the
Committees of the House of Lords and Commons which
had tat on the L ish poor-laws. It was there proved that
lands had been abandoned, crime had been generated to
an enormous extent, and the whole social framework of
society had been almost stricken down by that law. He
then quoted the evidence of Mr. Burke, Mr. Hamilton,
Mr. Do Vere, and Twissilton, before the Poor-law Relief
Committee, showing that the property of Ireland was not
sufficient to maintain the poor of that country, and that
if persevered is it would make the landlords bankrupts,
and ruin the farmers, and that the result of it, as far
as it operated since the passing of that measure, was
extermination, emigration, and famine of the most
awful character. He was provided with returns
showing that pauperism in Ireland was rapidly in-
creasing, of which a striking example presented itself
in the number of inmates of the Dungarvon Union
Workhotise, in which di,tict he possessed some pro.
perty, and also in that of Carrick-on-Suir. The poor-law
of the country was literally breaking down, because
there was no money in the country to support the pau-
perism of the country. In many instances the relieving
officers had been received into the houses as paupers ;
and frequently the military, when called out for the pur-
pose of enforcing the poor-law at the point of the bayonet,
the officers had subscribed the amount necessary to dis-
charge the claims to the rate against the poor cottiers.
lie could see no just reason fur refusing to Ireland what
was conceded to England, the richer country, with its vast
and various resources, the advantage of charging upon the
Consolidated Fund the expense of the medical arid edu-
norial establishments existing under the poor-1 tw. Ire•
land was a purely agriculture' country, and had suffsred
much more than England had by the repeal of the corn-
laws, even to the extent of one-fourth of its beneficial
value. They must look to other sources from whence to
collect the means of administering the poor-law. Ile
should recommend that for this purpose an immediate
income- tax should be applied to all lands in Ireland nut
at the present moment taxed to the relief of the poor.
The operation of the present system of rating was to
oppress the poorer classes, aid allow the richer ones to
escape, contrary to every principle of equity, religion,
and justice. But beyond its tendency to pauperise the
country, and to deprive the solvent part of the popula-
tion of the means of assisting the pour, he would warn
the House that it was positively dangerous, and that un-
less it was speedily checked, they might soon expect to
find its mischievous consequences developed in the still
m ,re aggravated and more general distress of the coun-
try. It Ireland, through the agency of this unjust sys-
tem of legislation, were dragged down into irretrievable
revolution, they might rely upon it that she would not
sink alone, but that she would draw England also into
the gulf in wnich she was overwhelmed. The Hon.
Member concluded by moving his resolution.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that every Member of
that House could not help feeling the deepest sympathy
for the present unfortunate condition of Ireland, and
therefore the length at which the last Hon. Gentleman
had addressed them, needed no apology whatever. He
had ailuded to the great distress of that country in a
manner which its melancholy character no doubt de-
manded, and which showed the importance of a proper
system of legislation.—(hear, hear.) He thought the
question might have been more fairly and more correctly
answered by his Honourable Friend (Sir H. Barron)
after he had drawn so lamentable a picture of the social
condition of Ireland, in particular at the present moment,
when they were iu the third year of the must awful—the
most calamitous famine that ever befel any country.
His Honourable Friend had asked; what had the poor
laws done for Ireland ? But was it not desirable that
the Government should do something to mitigate the
great social and severely-trying evils under which the
people of Ireland were suffering? He thought that they
ought to do something to mitigate those calamities—
(Hear, hear)—and therefore it was that he was must
anxious that the House should go now into Com-
mittee. He would not particularly allude to the evic-
tions which were taking place in Ireland, and which his
Honourable Friend attributed, in the main, to the
operation, of the poor laws. He would not
allude to those evictions with any view of evoking angry
feelings or discussion upon them; but this he might say,
that evictions had taken place iu Ireland a long time
back, and that they appeared to him to have been
greatly increased, rot, he would say, so much by the
operations of the poor laws as by the consequences of
the famine that betel the country. His Hon. Friend had
attributed the increase of crime also to the poor law. but
he (Sir William Somerville) was of opinion that the in-
crease of crime was more owing to the famine. His
Hon. Friend had advocated an income tax on that
landed property in Ireland which was not rated to the
poor, but he (Sir William Somerville) thought that the
present was not the time best suited to the introduction
of that measure.— (Hear.) He, therefore, hoped, look-
ing at all the circumstances, and taking the whole ques-
tion of the condition of Ireland into consideration, that
the Hon. Baronet would .not press his motion to a divi-
sion, and that he would allow the Government to go on;
and, if they could not effect all that was desirable to
alleviate the distressed condition of the people of Ire-
land, to at least du all in their power towards so neces-
sary an object.
Colonel DUNNE contended that the Right Hon.
rinizilettotod
decide
daew
wa away
et
h wither
Baronet who spoke last had not put a correct interpre-
tation on the argument of the Hon. Baronet who had
the contrary, his proposition was
theth e
property
rvr
oi
espr het
previouslyeve addressed the House. His Hon. Friend had
plainly this—that the
poor-law. 1.1
rteyirtahteed to the
nHouts.e
pour was sufficient to relieve the
During the past year large sums had byeen collected
country.
ia
Ireland by private subscriptions and by other modes,but,
as every one knew, they proved insuffisient; enormous
mortality ensued, and nothing could be more evident
than that the property rated to the poor was quite in-
a !equate to the maintenance of the pour. Some good
authorities on the subject said that a portion of the re-
lief ought to come from the national resources and
from the resources of Ireland alone. But, if
they made this demand upon Ireland,
he hoped they
would give baek to that country all that it
ought to have. If they took a large proper..
tion of the Irish resources and applied them to the
wants of England, the poverty of Irelandought
if upon
every sound principle to be relieved
out super-
abundance of England. The poverty
of
that Hou Ireland had been
I
caused by the erroneous legislation of
was a fact well known that 64 per cent. of the popula-
tioniof Ireland was employed in agriculture.
Everything
unfavourable to the landed interest was deep injury to
Ireland. The repeal of the corn laws might, perhaps,
i
have been advantageous to the empires at large, but that
was the very reason why something should be done for
Ireland, for the Irish had lost their monopoly of the
English provision market. He should not go back to the

„ .
change or the currency, but ho would say that every
change which had taken place since the union had proved
disadvantageous to the trade of Ireland. Again, the co-
lonial trade was a losing trade. Ho really thought that,
under all the circumstances of the case, they ought to