The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-08 00:00:00

~

r it fair to
as rept-
r by which
re were not
n they anlY
Leir
nn the very
to ~,pect 3a
never been
1 agitation,
e yeomanry
county
n, and lod
000 votes,
Reform, e..",
No one 141,
ed
he t
retioquishea
's persevere
reeti-
his opioio,
sexy of the
t it was :at'
been sow
of policy
han another
as as to the
other to"
e not
:Issl'avteurre, he
;pedi,ney .04
riy it to
which tile
bcat morel

isle):eitted fertility that the faulty system under which
red th:ens had grown up would be corrected. He ad-
oust . Plan which had been submitted to the House,
m tht't left no matter fur future concession.—(Hear,
ep2PPosition Benches' )—lf it had been framed on
eligr, ,'e principle—if it had let half the rotten
h ofti lo existence, or taken only one Mein) (nun
1n el cm
-instead of a final settlement it would have
aet: Me Member for Corfe Castle called a payrinenrt,
1
It 414'; instead of a lasting peace, it would have been
th, b "'w truce. The present measure effectually broke.
lorwerfol combination which influenced the dem-
iit !that ii"m" 'A. moderate P.eform, or what he
,tie4t.,,l; 'l4Ol R" form, w,,iilel only stimulate the Re-
a • rest, exsrtions. He had ever been en ardent
all's:ere friend of Reform ; but at the same time he
4 to4t`, eci that he would shrink with apprehension.
Heat remodelling remodelling of the system of
.reyresen.atitoin.
. t.
ik ar, and a laugh from the Opposition.), Gen
acid-
illt '! t lati,gl), but he again declared that he would
t;etli)iv::::trgh;Ped °r
e; 1 in\r:4'eVnlt'eaaatnti practical
:la' tecllt'vii calleduno gul (at I:ll,raeec rrtytil'iinienalsing aii ll'altilit'sni abuses
sn
atoa ff' P.
strlieli ee-
e .1. division of counties and towns, and the giving
iesentatives to every 100,000 or 200,000 inhalii-
se'rhe Present rise isme merely proposed to correct..
lihdltu'.fi.iies of the existing system eit.r.cpres,ntation : it
foi.e •,,t where the: e Wil9 no popwatu•n, there should
',N4l"Perrfoi
Motives ; and that where there wet e great
ti masses of the population without represen-
t,-'47 should in future possess them. The diffe.•-•
h,;_uld, he tholoslit strike any one, except such a psr-
" il°°. Membern for Aldhorough, whose eyes
t'heimlY char when he wished to find fault. A
tits -e'ortri now would not satisfy the people. The
,'lb,..oelil be extended every year, until the people
.iti;cerne so accustomed to change, that at lenl gtbeatlie
ht sni it would be entirely swept away. t If%
the d
It. Prudent to disappoint the excited hopes o .
114:Whether it was proper to have excited those.
~14, he would not stay to inquire. He.la7,ged
"It,' -f- 10 remember that the th,n?.. was dolic•—
e, aiimol the Opposition.) The proposal had been
L°Plichliit! was now to late to recall it. (Cheers from
IY na I') In his opinion the proposal
,had been
is tha'' Potriuticall made. It was impos.ib.e to snp-
Ithaat the reformers would be satisfied with any thing
titlittil:eet,m2oasure proposed. More they might have,
Supposing
„ "v uld never accept.—(Hear.)
tll'fri, Present measure should be thrown out, and other
ho,t,eeettill,..entn.•eaet,larweitolfi tßhtei.,,G!.;ernment, should carry a
could any rational man
l ref° "It would for a single day arrest the efforts of
iiti tilnlis et'? Again, he b-gged the House to reflect
the er 4eited (Pate of feeling which prevailed through-
' As taulitrY Upon this subject, and consider what would
4f: sequence of its rejection. Let not. Hon. Mem-
'lntl t° satisfy their consciences, by saying that tlfieya
ise'rtributed to produce this state of things. If
tre Qr' fire, it would not become part of the crew to
000 „twist in extinguishing the flames, because they
)
lo.s'usre in producing the conflagration.
--(Hear.)
which Ministers had proposed was cautious
derides etiandithe peopl • as far as could be ascertained,
,heirt people,
of it.—(Hear.)—Under.
cireo,,,
,sftipp-osr7.nees, the measure should receive his most
to • PEEL wished to know when this discussionieh
lite:we an end. After the brilliant speeches which
t Made on both sides of the question, it would r -
0 ordinary ingenuity to produce any fresh obser-
-4F Nevertheless, before the debate closed, lie was de-
' rkiirekliiiig against' the abominable.. injustice of the
44 ~ Measure, both in principle and. detail. He
t'illt fa measure,
of what he owed to his present and
' ftati:""tituents, if he did not indignantly. Talon-
itca,•;''' the ro sosed spoliation of their privileges.
A 4 of the measurepi would be unjust, even if the
se-t were acknowledged to be good. By. the the
according to the census taken in 1821,
4911 of Tavistock was stated at 5,483, that of Cainei
tsh .'t'd that of Tamworth 3,572. There was, e
t°lnivl:t'e:"l, a gross error with respect to the return of
MI 'rm Of Tamworth, and he thought that he could
the t*
tat. s'ill'e of the fact. The returning officher, who
,01,-'5 no sinister object in view, had statFclte 760;
al t'401114 jO TaMWOI th to be '747 ; in Tavistock,
be, 461
„Ifere ren
7tvlrorth.r.)
; and yet the population of the two last
Presented to be more considerable than that
The return from the Tax-office
the number of
° houses in Tamworth, rated at 10/.,
!sle7Tamworth,and in et
Or C 24. The of the um-
-1 5',..., 4 gave to a
Tamworthl , 322 ; toreturn Tavi stock, n 27 ;
SPe'etortfel IS. He had a right to say, therefore, that
to TawPulation and property Tamworth was su
4 tock or Caine. Why, then, was the for-
-1,1"1:P to be deprived of its representatives, and the
'it i„ toretain theirs ?•_( Hear, hear.) This might be
So''tig speech, but he was determined he would
AI ictonfession. He would oppose the measure
• When he heard it propounded, he was
that t
aot he purge would not
it
god purge
• The • • of the Noble Lord. .
Eh,
tzeure, and
, "tti that • e practice dif-
pass—that the dose
•,„ at of
physicians in general.
some proceeded on the All principle of
14 e, Lilt the Noble Lord acted on the principle lof
4rtLiOnwtil,eure. The Noble Lord reminded him of the
40-1.1""h nurses got children to take physic.
.4sf good% that the measure would do them. great
t (ill '.alld that if they would swallow it all, like
rise ' with .
4 . 11,-out spitting an of it out, it should be the
•i 'lle Noble Lord, however,y had forgot the ac-
th nDi
1,4 the !rszo-,"°e of sugar ; be killed his patient outright.
le se.'Oeseele Lord should give up practice, might he
ke",lltued by some other doctor who would
ii Mire ' Vtire of annual Parliaments and universal suf-
y.7l4turetras sure the Hon. Member for Preston was
uldr,it je‘emmeh to allow him to allude to him in the
-'e eery: '' He believed that if the present measureh
1
o%l4etoi,eeti, three months would not pass before t e
p-,..3 let 'would say, " You have not donehalf
ld'itiol,.,,me Persuade you to try Hunt's matchless
take "(MUrmurs.) He thought that no person
take tobrage at what he said, when the Hon.!
hit' I.l' ' i.re'tGri himself seemed perfectly well please(
C'at me -41,1 not admit that the Ministry displayed
ifi;Yiti iig'auirnity in bringing forward the question,
b.. hett4ti-dat theY would stand or fall by it. It could
"opo,ied that they were standing when the measure
141:ilee, 4' They were on their last legs. Theirll
tot_ a whitibered. In conclusion he called upon a
gsilAte ,°I, were oppo.ed to the vete by ballot, univer-
N„411p;.0-51Poliution of church property, the destruc-
-0 PenY, and the overthrow of the monarchy, to
"il totr( Hear hear. )
%,,tYi '''ELL said,' that the Hon. Member was
tk to t;:eeorrect in the facts which he had stated with
k:11,4 e., P°Pulation and number of houses in Tam-
R 1 „Nosen,e,* He found by the returns upon the table
i4441h-64'Isnt the number of houses in Tavistock was
441 146'4 e "8.--(Hear, hear.) When the Hon.
'l,•tt‘i t-m
to
She number of electors at Tavistock
44," ot:•ti°ll.4Y 27, he forgot that it was to remedy
4 0,....(1,14 description that the present measure was
I lb- "litt*Zear) He regretted that it should be im-
Otiveeill7rs that they had been influenced by per-
Nt_hey 0., framing the details of the great measure
,r,otte 7 brought forward. The odium whicildl
liq te,„fliternpted to throw upon Ministers would
~,,r Sold, °,1,t1 Weight upon themselves. The Hon.
-.4411 that .._
%tee r„"° Reformer, even the Hon. Member
t°,014 Point P. Burdett), in the experience of 40
*-,14 Dude Out an instance in which his Noble re-
i',' ill 1,4'.0f Bedford, had abused the influence he
itlu ntilt°clc; but it was to prevent a monopoly
Ie te,isee, that might not be so well exercised,
`11:. ItEt PPort to the hia.
Wool) explained.
'aid, that according to the doctrine of
0 '4ti", it
I, Insult., _ was of no consequence whether
Y 4 layv" ot nominees of Noble Lords, or was
the ge
or small tion of the people ;
141 if that Pet- fallacious doe-
si ,i. 1,4,._ , at this was a
Ils'Y 61,1'41° a doubt of it, that doubt would b. tt441,) iPeeFif of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir
'tit 43''
hueo . t did not become him (Mr. Wood) to
l' he l4 that
1111 t. ad a
r. , House ; but as a Member of Par-.
i. that „,:got to remark upon any argument of
Ito
- 11 p ,i.Ntronet. The Right Hon. Baronet had
kt6iNtlt a'."atnent was. dissolved, I.e would go down
s"
lit W'tli th • si,lod ilad r . e Bill in his hand, and tell the elec.
ih'') iii*Prive J'isted to the utmost this measure, which
t4'll"-41:14 atldureesnl_ 't' a Part of their votes. He (Mr.
h, tt , but
...., address
electors of Preston, who were
:5 4 1)000 no in the course of time would be re-
; It • ,in a •
IhYsti .4 true • different manner. He would say to
earl upped it Portion of your elective franchise is
'I•"117•%t ~,,, Me by universal suffrage, and I esteem
SN 41•114,3""Pliment; but recollect that your two
:"1P" °fa- et't Were liable to be ovFrpootered by
_the.
liohle
14, I ill, soo
~._ r who a proprietor of boroughs ,
tot''epri .'''"o More persons enjoy the elective
rqs :nits. t'ng You of your franchise I have emi-
t,. tk •ft t„ many . . . .
`Of 1,411 veil, Pon other individuals, and there-
rfv-941,..,
.1 ne better guarded."--(Hear.) It was
til‘Zt, Cito reflect that no Member, in the course
-SRe4, \got up and said that no Reform was
ririi.:). All persons out of doors were per-
t StoOd in need of Reform, and the

mltal

only question was, what was the Reformwhich the House
was disposed to grant. In his opinion his Majesty's Mini-
sters bad really redeemed their pledge. He had had com-
munication from many places, including manufacturing
towns in the north of England, which were unanimous in
their expression of satisfaction at the Bill. They saw in
it a security for good government, and were convinced that
it would set the question at rest. His Hon. and Learned
Friend, the Member for Boroughbridge, had talked of cor-
poration-robbery; but he was a gratuitous defender of
corporation interests, for corporations were coming forward
to petition in favour of the Bill. London had set the
example, and Chester, Lincoln, and other places were in
motion. As to robbery, was the elective franchise given
to corporations for their exclusive profit ? The Hon. and
Learn, d Member knew that there was no trust deed
that did not contain a clause for the dismissal of trus-
tees who miseond octet] themselves.—(Hear, hear.) He
(Mr. Wood) contended that those trustees had miscon
ducted theme Ives, and were:in many instances so reduced in
number that they could nut fulfil their trust. As an
appeal had been made to former debates, and as Mr. Can-
ning's name had been introduced, he should read an ex-
tract from a speech which he hid made (and which he had
authority to say was corrected by himself), not to the
elector, of Liverpool, whom he would not characterise as
they deserved, but to a club of bankers, merchants, and
men of high respectability, in which lie speaks of the
middle classes as the conservative portion of the state, and
in whom it must confide. He would read the passage,
and then ask the Hnitse to determine whether Mr. Can-
ning could have been an enemy to Reform. (The Hon.
Mender then read an extract of considerable length from
a speech of Mr. Canning.) IT would ask how tilem
could be any such security for the middle classes as Mr.
Canning proposed, except by the measure now proposed.
The try :j rite of the House was returned by 300 indivi-
duals, some of them Peet,, who, whatever were their cha-
racter, were liable to he influenced by human merives, and
acted upon by their families and dependents. The electors
too, were sometimes a handful of individuals liable to
temptation and to pecuniary inflaence from their station
in life. To temove these anomalies, to give all an interest
in the pr, nervation of property, was the object of this
Bill. The House was not to be deterred from doing
this act of justice by the yells of the monster corruption.
That coon: ter was now at hay ; it had received a mortal
wound ; its plunges were violent, but it was in its last
agony. . . . .

Air. JOHNSTONE contended that the measure, in-
stead of being revolutionary, was restrictive in its prin-
ciple, dictated in the true spirit of impartiality, steering
the due course between the views of political antiquaries
arid the schemes of political projectors. The House, as
history established, in its Constitution was representative
—it had re ver completely lost that character; but as long
as so large a cumber of Members were returned n ithout
popular suffrage, so long would the people refuse confi-
dence to its decisions. B: sides it interfered with the due
conduct of the affairs of Government; the corruption of
the House was a theme to every factious declaimer—the
fulcrum by means of which Government were shaken.
He would make the House of Commons an organ to in-
fluence the people, and to give the tone to opinion instead
of receiving it. The class of people to whom the franchise
was extended was that to which the country looked for the
destruction of the wholesale system of bribery, while it
would infuse into the lower orders higher and better prin-
ciples of action. The qualification of the elector was
s,rfficicn•ly high to produce a feeling of responsibility,
while no man was so low as not to be able to indulge the
reasonable hope of rising to a station to entitle him to the
franchise. No doubt rank and wealth would maintain
their due influence, but the middle classes were the natural
guardians of soci rl order, and the Aristocracy had nothing
to fear if they depended upon pubic virtue, instead of re-
lying upon Parliamentary patronage. He supported the
Bill, chiefly because he thought it would produce a moral
regeneration in the habits and feelings of the country.
Mr. NORTH commenced by adverting to the speech of
Lord Howick. He rejoiced that it had been delivered, be-
cause if there were still one man who imagined that a
spirit of moderation actuated Ministers, he must have been
undeceived. There were many who varied in their notions
of the necessity of Reform, but he did not until this night
believe that there was a single English gentleman who
could approach the British Constitution with a view to re-
peal or alter it, however slightly, without some feeling of
reverence and affection, The Noble Lord was the exception
to the rule which he (Mr. North) had believed universal.
This Constitution, held up to admiration not only by our
own nation, but by foreigners of every speech, the Noble
Lord seemed to think nothing more than a corrupt instru-
ment, by means of which this country had had inflicted
upon it a whole century of misgovernment.—(Hear.)
According to the Noble Lord, it was rotten in all its
parts—(No, no, no)—at all events, that it required a
thorough repair—(Hear, hear)—although a friend of the
Noble Lord had characterised the House of Commons as
justly as beautifully when he bad described it as the noblest
assembly of freemen in the world. If indeed the Constitu-
tion of the House were so decayed, if it were so corrupt, so
deba,ed, that it might he made by Government the instru-
ment of every abuse, then he would tell the Noble Lord
that his Bill would not go far enough, and that the chance
was not sufficient. He hoped, however, that others had
more moderate opinions, and leaving the Noble Lord, with
them he would attempt to grapple. He would first ask
where was the necessity for this tremendous change?
What recent miscarriage by Government—what event in
this year 1931 had shown that the House of Commons
was incapable of its functions, and that this great Reform
was necessary to restore it to its competence ? Where was
the emergency that had never before occurred, calling upon
Government to adopt this unprecedented course ? The ma-
ligned Constitution had been equal to the settlement of
the great question of a disputed succession—it had sus-
tained, unmoved, the shock of the French Revolution,
when all foreign states were shaken, and some overthrown,
and had finally, with success, struggled against the mili-
tary and imperial greatness of Bonaparte ? Where, then,
he again asked, was the new emergency calling for this
unheard-of-measure—this machine, under the controul of
the Noble Lord, which was to be the substitute for our
ancient and venerable Constitution? He would, however,
do Ministers the justice to say, that they did hot rest their
proposition on this ground only ; they urged that there
was a necessity of a different description—that there was
clamour out of doors—that extrinsic violence was to be
dreaded and avoided—that the call for Reform was soloud
and so imperious, that the House must ohey it without
even a murmur. He for one had heard no such call ; and
he was not satisfied that among the people any general
feeling prevailed in favour of the Bill. No man was more
ready than he was to obey a steady, firm, deliberate call
by the people; but all he had perceived was a transient
emotion—a flash, an ontbreaking of the fiery temper of the
people, a partial eddy, not to be mistaken for the weighty
and continued current of public opinion. In a State
where a free press existed, and public topics were discus-
sed, these transitory gusts were part of the price paid for
liberty ; but it became the House to beware that it did
not mistake them for a determined and deliberate national
conviction. Hereafter the House might be told that it
ought to have paused—that the ebullition was hasty and
temporary, and that it had ill become it so inconsiderately
to sacrifice the Constitution. An attempt had been made
to assimilate the state of feeling in this country, on Par-
liamentary Reform, to the popular excitement in Ireland '
on the question of Catholic emancipation. In his view,
however, there was not the slightest resemblance between
the two. Catholic emancipation was the long-sought de-
sire of a confederated nation, united by common grievance
and a century of oppression. But the Roman Catholics
asked no change—they only claimed to be admitted into
the bosom of the ancient Constitution of the country.—
Of all men, it ill became the Right Hon. Secretary for
Ireland to press this point, when he himself had just sup-
pressed an artificial and temporary excitement for the re-
peal of the Union, which was precisely analogous to the
transitory clamour of the people of England in favour of
Parliamentary Reform. He would now inquire into the
merits of the contemplated change ; and here the pro-
posers
of the measure would do well to satisfy themselves
on two points—first, that they thoroughly understood
the old Constitution : secondly, that they were fully
aware of the nature and extent of the new.—(Hear,
hear.) The British Constitution was not a simple
structure, but of mixed architecture of many different ages,
and the Hon. Member for Callington (Mr. Baring) had
well said that while vulgar ignorance might criticise the
exterior, it was incapable of estimating the internal
beauties of the fabric. In removing what some might
consider an excrescence, an unshiful operator might de-
stroy the principle of vitality. He was convinced that
close boroughs were necessary to the great ends of the
Constitution. He apprehended that the mere quality of
being a representative of the people would not be suffi-
cient for the purposes of Government. Whatever might
be original, certain it was that as our great empire ex-
tended, her interests became more numerous and compli-
cated, and the representatives of those interests in the
House were practically called upon to decide all matters
relating to them. The varied information they possessed
was therefore absolutely necessary; and if the new system
of the purists were to be adopted, he begged to know how
the East Indian, the West Indian, and the other Colonial
interests were to be represented in Parliarneot To put
an end to close boroughs was, therefore, to deprive the
House of some of its moat important lights. He. would

take, as an example, the Hon. Member for Midhurst
(Mr. John Smith) He sat for a close borough, and if
he were removed, where could an adequate successor
be found, who like him would expose the impo-
Hey of the Chancellor of the Exehequer's late tax upon
the transfer of property, and compel the Noble Lord to
abandon it. He would not press the argument, that to
abolish close boroughs would be to shut the doors of the
House against talent, because that was a point which he
apprehended would not be disputed ; the House was also
the asylum for those who professed unpopular opinions,
and ne Minister could faithfully discharge his duty to his
Sovereign and his country, without at some time or other
running counter to the national sentiment. Such men
were his support and protection ; and, without their aid,
he would be obliged to provide for the people those cates
which would please the palate, without being either whole-
some or nutritious. If ever there were an instance in
which the people were called on to support public men for
the bold advocacy of the popular cause, it was on the
occasion of the dissolution of the Irish Parliament in the
year 1783. Mr. Hardy, the biographer of Lord Cliaide
wont, in speak'ng of the occurrences of that period, says,
" If it is necessary not to animadvert not unfrequently
upon the mi,conduct of Ministers, it is necessary also
to take notice of the faults of the people. Despicable
is the man who, to soothe their ear, dwells with a ma-
lignant and vulgar satisfaction on the errors of their
rulers, and never touches on their own. In August, 1783,
hat is, three months before the meeting of the Convention
in Dublin, the Parliament was diciolved, and a new one
was summoned to meet. Here, then, were the people
called on to act their part in the choice of representatives.
If it be sullenly said, that the system of representation cir-
cumscribed the popular choice in too narrow limits, I ac-
cede to the proposition ; but I beg to add, that it was not
so bound as to prevent its coming forth at all. Numerous
boroughs were, still they did rot overspread the
whole field of elections ; the counties and several free
towns remained ; yet most certain it is, that not one
county, not one free town or corporation throughout the
kingdom, expressed their own or the people's gratitude by
e'ecting any of the eminent men who had so recently and
so gloriously led them on to the best victory—the triumph
of national freedom. Nay, some country gentlemen, who
hid, in the last contest, acted the most independent part,
were thrown out. Mr. Flood end his illustrious rival were
obliged to wander as far as elections extended through this
mist of popular oblivion, and find their way to Parliament
in any manner they The borough of Charleinont
once more silently received Mr. Grattan ; and lair. Flood
had great difficulty in finding any seat whatever."—
(Much cheering.)—He was sorry to detain the House, but
he could taut help reading a fiw lines further—(Hear,
hear)—in which Mr. II tidy went on to sty, " At
this very moment were demagogues rushing forth from
every part of the kingdom in quest of Parliamentary Re-
form, and vociferating that the people would not elect a
single friend, and were dissatisfied with all that bad been
done, in Parliaments, unless they could give free and more
extended utterance to the voice of tl e constituent, which
voice, when called upon by the Constitution itself to
speak, was, as to the upholding of that Constitution, no
where to be heard."—(Cheers.) From these reinarkiible
instances it might by eeen that the people, on whose dis-
cernment in the choice of fit representatives so much re-
liance was placed, were not only not so discerning as to find
out their friends from amongst the number of the untried,
but had not even sufficient discernment to know their
tried friends, nho had to find their way into Parliament
by the silent assistance of those boroughs, which were
now about to be disfranchised. But that gentleman,
who, in a speech which had been so much and so justly
admired, had toll the House that the accession of such
men to Parliament was the result of a happy accident.
It might as well be sold that it was a happy accident
which had constructed and placed in its position there,
that clock before them, now indicating the hour of the
night. The accession of such men to Parliament was one
of the results of the Constitution.—(Hear, hear, heir.)
He would tell the Honourable Member for Caine,
that there were men as fit to serve their country
and to adorn its literature in that House as
was that eloquent gentleman himself, who had
not had that happy accident ; and that, but for that happy
accident, the Hon. Member for Caine would have la-
boured for the political welfare and the literary honour of
his country, without obtaining that just distinction and
celebrity, which, however he (Mr. North) might differ
from his arguments, he admitted his eloquence and inge-
nuity hail deservedly olitained.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—He
(Mr. N.) had now endeavoured, without fatiguing the
House, to impress upon them, as much as was in his
power, those arguments which no practical man could un-
dervalue, because they bad only been drawn from practice
and experience. Ile had not thought it necessary to dwell
upon the details of the Noble Lord's system of Reform;
but there was against those details one point which bad
not been dwelt upon in the course of the previous debates
upon the Noble Lord's proposition, to which he (Mr.
North) thought it right to call the attention of the House.
He alluded to the effects of the measure upon that part of
the kingdom to which he belonged. He was perfectly
sure that the Noble Lord was net aware of the effects of
his plan upon the representation of Ireland. But the
Noble Lord was aware that in the year 1829, scarcely two
years ago, a change was made in the constituency of Ire-
land to promote the balance of the several interests in that
country. It was then thought that, in admitting their
Roman Catholic fellow-subjects to a participation of privi-
leges from which they had before been excluded, it was
necessary to guard against the danger which might be
brought against the institutions of the country by the un-
due preponderance of that class of the Irish people.
Would not the whole of that arrangement be subverted by
the plan of the Noble Lord ? If that plan were now to
be carried into effect, he would answer the Noble Lord
that in at least twenty counties, and in most of the cities
and towns of Ireland, the Protestant interest would, by
that plan, be bound hand and foot in subjection to the
Roman Catholic.—(Hear, hear.) lie spoke honestly..—
(Hear, hear.) No man could contradict him.—( Hear,
hear.) He was sure that the Hon. Member for Waterford
would say that such result would not be mischievous sr to
be regretted ; but he was confident that the Hon. Mens-
- would deny that such would be the result. He (Mr.
North) believed certainly that such would be the conse-
quence, and he could not allow the Bill to pass without
pointing out its effects.—(Heir.) Having glanced at that
part of the detail, he would return to the general question,
whether the Bill ought to pass at all. That what, to his
mind, seemed to be the greatest mischief attaching to the
measure was, that notwithstanding what had been
said to the contrary, it would net be final.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) Severe its he considered the injuries to be
which it would inevitably inflict upon the best interests of
his constituents, he believed it would be some consolation
to him could he think it was a final measure. But there
was no stability apparent in the plan. There was no
mooring or anchorage around it, in which whatever it
would leave of the Constitution might be saved.--
(Cheers.) It was a problem which would lead them day
after day further from the home of their ancient institu
tions—which would lead them into that, revolutionary hell
that gaped before them. Low as the Bill itself would
bring the Constitution, it was to be remembered that, in
the words of Milton, " in the lowest deep there is a deep
still lower, waiting to devour us."--( Great cheering.) Ira
the next year, or in the year after, the Government might
be embarrassed by the consequences of an insufficient
harvest, by popular commotion, by commereial difficulty,
o
e at l beenl
their f u
distressesl taught
efthey
were(
ettyti ewe ti
henlheeea eadi edneeo
rseu,enaf
itett
inadequate
pat
rtpt
weeopt(st.h)reuhede
eslyde
tdnombet
eafuetbesifeoott
stuln_bnoey, tif
or by colonial di pression. The people end the colonies had
notn
refe r
defective,(
theC l
re
erws,)C—os
kannisidtfiu,tiuwt
ai when
Constitution
nw(
which it was constructed)—(Cheers)—when they would
crowd the table with petitions again for a new Constitu-
tion—(Cheers)—and when the Hon. Member for Britt Port
would come down with a Bill for the vote by ballot end.
when the Honourable Member for Midhurst would come
with his detail of hundreds of grievances—(Cheers)—
w
how would the new Constitution be defended ? It could
adduce no prescription. It could make no reference to
history for years of happiness and glory enjoyed under its
rule.
n tas
.—(tver ofbeer)— He could imagine the Noble Lord,the
Paymaster the Forces, to rise in his place, with that
happy
rcomposition with which, he so often delighted
Cheers)—and he
b
House, to convince them that no disasters had been occa-
sioned, that no evils could be attributed to his recently
tried Constitution; when reference. would be made to the
wouldnew Constitutions
toldst iti ittihoants
all o fo
mischiefsthe r
S existingtate
—(
were produced
his Government of yesterday.—(Cheering.)—Thosye
framers of Constitutions, those conceited men—(Cheers)
have not extended their views back over a year, not even a
month, but plan all by anticipation, at once abolishing the
Constitution under which the nation had enjoyed so much
happiness. In that view he was bound, as a free and
din.:
dependent Member of the Legislature, to ddecsiclaitriethhiastotphie-
Bnitoitnotiheaßt the
igiit mHeoans.o r
se
ecsrveatsa
rryevofol ur t i olnrealrayn._
Bill comprehended no measure of revolution ; that, in
fact, no measure was revolutionary which was enacted
with the consent of the three branches of the Legis-
lature—the King, Lords, and Commons. It was
scarcely necessary to reply to that argument. Sup-
pose that those three branches of the Legislature
had thought fit to destroy the liberty of the press, to

annul the Act of Habeas Corpus, and to abolish Trial by
Jury—all whic4s they were, it would be conceded, quite
competent to do—would any man say that such enactments
were, in fact, a revolution ?—(Great cheering ?) He
• would say, then, look to the revolutionary effects of that
measure, which he might infer, from whet bad been said
by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, was to
he brought about, in some degree, by the influence of an
external physical power, acting in some manner upon the
judgment of that House..—(Cheers.)—When the attempt
was made to turn their attention frirn the true nature of
the proposed revolution, by asserting that the overthrow of
the Constitution by the King, Lords, and Commons, was
fro revolution, because it was the act of the Constitution
itself, he would ask, was the murder the less criminal be-
cause it was effected by thew own hands ? Was it the less
murder bec ruse it was suicide 7—(Cheers.) He would
not longer detain tire Housea—(Hear, hear.) He would
only say, that if they were determined to effect that impor-
tant, vital, and radical change in the Constitution of Great
Britain, they should approach the subject with caution and
respect. Let them consider, that it had grown up among
the people like their language—(Hear)—that, like their
language, it was native to them ; and that, though diffi-
cult it might be te trace its origin to Norman, D finish, or
Sexon sources, it was still impossible to substitute another
of equal fitness in its stead.—(Vehement cheering.)
Mr. R. GRANT said, teat after the very copious, able,
and eloquent disquisition which they hail just heard, he
should have been very slow to follow if he did not feel that
he could safely answer for himself to this extent,—namely,
that lie could at least compete with the I-lon. and Learned
Member in some of the excellent features of his speech,
and that, in the short address with which he was about
to trouble the House, he could practise that moderation
which was in the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's recom-
mendation, but certainly not in his performance.—(Cheers
and laughter.) He would not imitate the example, but
follow the exhortation of the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
treen, and would refrain from retorting upon the Hon and
Learned Gentleman the epithets " arrogant and self-con-
ceited."—(Ceeers.) Ile should have thought that the
conduct of the present Government, who were humbly
endeavouring to tread in the footsteps of a Pitt and Fox,
might have eroteeted them from such epithets as these ;
but the respect which he entertained for the character of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would prevent him from
following the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in such a line of
erimination. He must, however, say, that he did lament that
notwithstanding their earnest endeavour to avoid all irri-
tating topics, and to induce Hon. Members to apply them-
, selves to the discussion of this, the most itnpertant mea-
sure which had been debated within the walls of that
' House for a century past, there should have been found
some Hon. Members who, abandoning that wise and pro-
' dent course, had allowed some matters which were alto-
gether of a personal nature to creep into their speeches.
—(Cheers.) He did not regret this on his own ac•
count ; for the single personal allusion which had been
made to him was one which he was so far from
finding fault with, that he should not et ail object to its
heifig re-introduced as frequently as Honourable Gen-
tlemen pleased. He must, however, repeat, that lie
did most sincerely lament that Hon. Gentlemen should
think it worth while to introduce any topics of an irritat-
ine character into the discussion of this important, this
difficult, and, in its consequences, this momentous ques-
tion. If the Home would allow him, he would despatch
in one single sentence the allusion which had been made to
himself personally. It had been said that some of them
who sat upon that bench, and particularly those who were
supposed, but who certainly did not attempt to represent
the late Mr. Carmine, es ere guilty of inconsistency in sup-
porting the present measure. It would certainly be arro-
gance of the grossest kind in him, and would subject him
most deservedly to the epithets which the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had eo bountifully bestowed upon the
Members of the Government, if he were to aspire to the
character of being a representative of Mr. Canning.—
Allow him to say, that lie had never aspired to the repu-
tation cr character of being the representative of that
great genius, but that be stood there as one of the repre-
sentatives of the people, •and that in that capacity he
claimed the right of considering with reason, end without
prejudice, and of pronouncing upon boldly, any measure
which might he submitted to the legislature.—(Cheers.)
To claim this right, which no one could deny him, and
to perform this duty, which if lie neelected, he should be
answerable for his negligence to his constituents, were of
far more importance to him than to save himself from a
charge of inconsistency, however unjust that charge might
be, and however intemperately that charge might be
urged against him. The charge, hewever, which had
been made in his absence, for lie had not been present
for one or two evenings in consequence of indisposition,
he utterly denied to Ciave any foundation in truth, or
justice, or good sense.—(Cheers.) He might, indeed, as
many other Hon. Gentlemen had, take refuge against this
charge, in the fact that he had never opened his lips in
that House on the subject of Reform, and that he had very
seldom been present in that House when the question of
Reform had been discussed.—(Hear, hear.) But he would
take no such ground. He confessed freely and candidly
that his early opinion* were very touch against it ; but
these opinions were neither well matured nor well con-
sidered, and the events of the last se,sion of Parliament had
called his more serious attention to the subject. The events
of the late general election, and particularly at the county
elections,—which events allow him to say he was filled
with astonishment to find Hon. Members asserting to be
the fruits of some temporary excitement,—had made a
deep impression upon him. He might be wrong, but
upon these event, and upon the roost mature deliberation,
be felt himself called upon to support the present measure ;
and he felt not the slightest displeasure at the taunt of in-
consistency, hieing perfectly satisfied that no man could be
justly celled inconsistent who acted consistently with the
dictates of his own judgment and his own conscience.—
(Loud cheering.) But how, let him ask, could it be sup-
posed that they who had seen Mr. Canning when he
came into another department—he meant when Mr. Can-
ning was called to preside over our foreign policy—as-
sume a ground altogether different from that on which he
had taken his stand clueing all the former period of his life,
—When they contemplated, the acts of Mr. Canning's
foreign policy, and saw the consequences of those acts, and
the electrical effects which they produced upon every country
in Europe,--how, he repeated, could it be supposed that
they who had been witnesses to this conduct on the part
of Mr. Canning, in his department, should hesitate, if they
were to take Mr. Canning as their example, to act ac.
cording to their own judgments in their own depart-
ment, when the circumstances of the time were altered and
when new exigencies required new measures ?—(Cheers.)
He would contend that they should adapt themselves to
the changes and tire-circumstances of the times. Could it
be that, at this eventful period, opinions in that House
alone should remain quiescent and immoveable, while every
thing around them was in motion and in change?—
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the able and eloquent ad-
dress which they had heurel from the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman who bad just sat down, he begged to say, that
in one respect, and in one respect only, he concurred with
that Hon. end Learned Gentleman. That Hon. and
Learned Gentleman, taking for granted that there was a
cry abroad—that there was a craving by petition before
Parliament for this measure, as was the case in the instance
question—taking that for granted, which
w
,the Hon. and Learned Gentleman argued,
cif
fiaats thethiereCa falilithetstance of Catholic emancipation, we properly
ielded • to long-continued demands for the redress of long-
cperinesteinnutedocEsiejtvmanweeass;
obfuat ttlriaatnaittohley eaxneditetmemenptnroanry
nthae.
tare—that it was produced by individuals who had no
interest in allaying it, and that there had been no long-
continued existence of grievances which called upon us to
system. Now he thought that the
and Learned Member did great injustice to the
members who had advocated Catholic emancipation, and
departHnn. from the olden
to that great cause itself, if he argued that that-great
question had been granted merely because agitation and
excitement had existed 'Upon the subject for a number
of years. He (Mr. Grant) had fin. years been the ad-
vocate of Catholic emancipation; but he denied that
in advocating it he argued for it as a mere question
of time. He advocated Catholic emancipation because
he considered it a cause founded upon the great prin.
eiples of justice ; and though in that instance, as in the
present, he acknowledged that they should attend to
the discontents, and give a patient and willing ear to the
petitions of the people, he was the advocate of both mea-
sures, because he believed in his conscience that they were
both based upon justice.—(Hear.) While the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman was so severe upon the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland for referring to the
settlement of the Catholic question as he hail done, as a
orncitleman, that
parallel case, he seemed- to forget this—that in the speech
which he had made on this occasion against Reform, and
which had been so powerfnlly cheered by Hon. Gentletnen
the
of the House, he had furnished an
exact
were
ee
employedergen tsagSaNihnsictilehmeannocwipaetminpnl,oyaendd,
opposite side
cheered with &phi vociferation by the
en opposite. Did it not strike the Hon. and
now used against Reform, he had furnished
in the arguments and the lan-
guageLgurt rOeloi atni
rcht.nhobeGpse‘deavwerintOG:evipttleh.eireeteni h e
an exact fete simile fin- those which had been urged against
Catholic emancipation ? One would think -that he had
ransacked the debates on the Catholic gum-
walked over h t well fought field,"
gtioonae,..N.ovtebrataniade
had

and had taken up the errant shafts, and had thrown them
against that shield which had so often repelled them.—
(Cheers.) The Hon. Member had given them fine-spun
passages about the glories of Cressy and Poictiers, and had
spoken of them as if they were the effects of the close
borough system. But there he was also anticipated
upon the Catholic question. It was a standing topic
on that question, In every discussion of it we
were referred to the deeds recorded in our history;
we were referred to the wars we heel sustained,—to
the triumphs which we had achieved,—to the struggles
which we bad maintained,—we referred to all those
things, which we were toll had made us the "envy and
admiration of the world," and we were asked, would we
permit aught of innovation upon a Ctsnstitut:on under
which the country had witnessed such a cat err of prospe-
rity and glory? Such absurd arguments were repudiated,
as they ought to have been, in the case of the Catholic
question ; and, they ought to act now as they had thee;—
they ought to do justly and righteously, and not to attend
to arguments drawn from the armoury of antiquated opi-
ohms and exploded prejudices. The most remarkable pa-
rallel between the Hon. Member's arguments against this
question, and those which had been urged against Ca-
tholic emancipation, was this,—the opponents of R. form
said to the friends of the measure, " You talk of clamour,
and violence, and. agitation, but we tell you that you your-
selves are the cause of it." That was the cry of the Hon
Member on this occasion, but how of-en had they not been
condemned to hear the same argument urged,agaiust eman-
cipation ? The standing topic then was, in answer to the
advocates of emancipation,—. You talk of the agitation
of the people, but you have no right to talk of it, the
causes of it are of your own producing." Let him tell
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that that was then
the favourite argument, and the favourite doctrine
with some of his allies on the present occasion. But
what was the answer of the Right Hon. Baronet op-
posite to ths, when, to his immortal honour, lie took
in hand the settlement of that great question ? He said
in substance this,—" I ask not whence this discontent pro-
ceeds, but I say that it exists, and I t ecemmend you to
take this measure for the removal of it." He (Mr.
Grant) called upon the House to do the same now,—not
to contend against the tempest which could not he thus
assuaged, but to pour oil on the troubled waters, and thus
to calm the storm. There was another argument em-
ployed against emancipation, which the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had also called to his aid on this occesiore—
They hid ken told, its reference to emancipation—" See
the consequences of such a measure, behold the expecta-
tions which you will raise amongst the Catholics, and
which it will be impossible to satisfy—they will call for
an abolition of tithes—for an abolition of taxes, and for a
separation from England altogether." Now that there
existed in some quarters extravagant expectations with
regard to Reform, he should not deny; but lie would
repeat, in imitation of what hod been so eloquently and
ably urged by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite in refer-
ence to emancipation, that the only way to defeat unrea-
sonable expectations and claims was to grant those that
were reasonable.—(Cheers.)—They bad comae to that
point; they were called upon to grant what was just and
reasonable ; and let him tell them that the best mode to
defeat extravagant hopes and expect etions, was not to
defer any longer the granting that which was due to jus-
tice and the people, and that the giving to them that
which they ought to have, was the true way to prevent
them from seeking that which they ought not to have.—
But they had heard another argument used on this occa-
sion, with regard to whit was termed the extreme cruelty
of disfranchising not individuals but whole classes of
persons. The very same argument was used with great
force when the Hon. Metnher for Staffordshire introduced
his Bill, in 1825, for disfranchising the 40s. freeholders
of Ireland. Those who opposed that Bill, and Vie Right
Hon. Baronet opposite amongst the number, argued in
that way, and the Right H n. Baronet said that he could
not consent to proceeding with such a sweeping measure of
disfranchisement, anti that be could not at all consent to
such a disfranchisement, without at least an examination
into the causes that called for it. 'Four years after the
Right Hon. Baronet commenced a similar Reform, not
by adopting but by proposing a measure of similar dis-
franchisement without any examination whatever. The
Right Hon. Baronet then did his duty in defiance of the
taunts which were thrown out against him, and his Ma-
jesty's Government proceeded upon the same principle
upon the present occasion. The Hon. and Learned Gen.
denim opposite had dwelt upon the beautiful mechanism
of the close borough system, and had spoken of it as if it
were the real basis of the representation of the Commons
House of Parliament. Now, he would ask, what view
would any one who looked into our constitutional writers
for his guides take of the system of our representation in
the Commons' House of Parliament as it ought to exist ?
Would he not be led to consider it as the full, efficient,
and complete representation of the Cotnsnons of England,
and not the representation of a part of the country ? Our
constituent system in the House of Cosnmons was understood
in the sense of our fathers, not to mean universal suf-
frage, but that representation of the country which was not
only effectually but exclusively a popular representation,
and that the Members representing that constituency in
the Parliament, should not be the House of Commons
merely, but the House of the whole Commons of England.
That was what was understood by our ancestors when
they spoke of the Commons of England. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had gone to the time of our Henries
and Edwards, to find out, as he asserted, that the close
borough system was the essential basis of the representa-
tive system ; and, reading our Parliamentary history in
rather an extraordinary way, he maintained that the close
borough system was a beautiful system, and that without
the close boroughs the House of Commons could not ei-
ercise its constitutional functions. The Hon. Member,
indeed, spoke of the King, Lords, and Commons, as if the
two former constituted a portion of the third estate of the
realm. The Han. Member for Callington had certainly
used the same argument when he admitted that there were
influences which had no connexion with the people of the
country, which were, on the contrary, opposed to them,
but which were and ought to be represented in that House.
If that were the case, then they who read the theory of
our Constitution in our hest writers, must suppose that
this House bad forfeited that high character which had
raised them to such an elevation in the eyes of all foreign
nations. He would venture to say, without fear of con-
tradiction, that representation was a positive trust. If
that were the case,—and he fancied that the position could
not be disputed,—then it could not be denied that this
House now stood, and had long stood, in what might
be truly called a " false position ;" and in these days of
growing light, intelligence, and education, it would be
manifestly impossible for them to maintain thetnselves in
that " false position" muck longer.—(Hear. )—lf the
theory of our Constitution was right as it was delivered
to us by our best constitutional writers, then our- present
practice must be bad; and if the practice was
correct, then it falsified the theory. He would
refer fur that theory to Blackstone, De Lolme, and
every writer upon the English Constitution; and if it
was possible for him to refer to any treatise of the Learned
Gentleman opposite upon Constitutional law, be was sure
that the Learned Gentleman, writing like a lawyer, would.
propound a similar theory. Why the very, forms and
proceedings of that House proved that it was in its Con-
stitution mainly, essentially, exclusively, and entirely po-
pular. On the first day of the, Session they depute their
Speaker to der-Boni from the Crown a full liberty of
speech, and that it shall riot interfere with their proceed-
ings. On the first darof the Session they pass a resolu-
tioti 'that no- Pecr.ohg,ht to have any influence in that
House; and .-the very foims with regard to election peti-
tions, Committees, &c. proved the soundness of the doc-
trine that that was essentially the House of the people.
The cage and caution which the other House exercised in
respect to interfering with money bills, established that
doctrine. This was a theory of the Constitution of the
Comtnons House of Parliament, as well known to the
people of England as it was to them. The present state
of knowledge—the immense diffusion of education owing.
to the establishment of innutnerable schools—was such,
that the majority of the population of England
were fully able to understand the theories of Blackstone
and De Lolme on the subject. At a general election, in-
deed, the Members of that House, Whig as well as 1 ery,
admitted the soundness of that theory to their consti-
tuents, and it would not now do to tell them that the prac-
tice was one thing end that the theory was another : it
would not do to tell theM that the theory of Blackstone
and of our best constitutional lawyers was one of yester-
day, and that the practice of which they complained was
founded on the wisdom of ages.—(Hear, hear.) Their
theory and their practice were thus viciously opposed to
c
the one they were generating evils, for
whicha
theory precluded their only remedy.—(Hear.)
e other
their ; by
The happy mean which policy would point out between
the qUid uttima 'libertate on the one hand, and the quid
ultima servitute on the other, would by them be lost sight
of'S leaving them only a choice between the worst conse-
quences of either. Would they imitate the blind obsti-
nacy of the rulers of a neighbouring State in their oppo-
sition to the just demand of an intelligent people ? Let
them recollect that the despicable aid which 500,000
legionaries and an-armed prwtorian band in the heart of a
metropolis afforded to those rulers was discarded in thill
happy country, and that wise and temperate concessions
to justice were the best preservatives of social order.—
And what was it they would oppose ? Why nothing more

than a measure for uniting in the closest bonds
die wea'th and intelligence of the State to the Constitu

tion.-ee(ii. at%) In the treipbatic language of Lord Plun• .
kett on another occasion, let them recollect that "if they
separated wealth and intelligence frets the State, wealth
and intelligence would destroy the State."—(Hear, hear.)
But peril qts our opponents would, in the crude spirit
f meet of their assertion', maintain that the wealth and •
intelligence will not be unitt.d to stet existing institutions
by the present mereotre.—('t Hear," from the Oppositisn
Beaches. )—Well, the-o, shat is the test? Let them look
to the lest returns made under the property tax, and they
wig firl that the large mass of the returns were for pro-
p rty undt r 5001.—(Hear)—the holders of which consti-
tote the great ;rider, so to speak, of our national in-
ti,lligence and prosperity, --(Hear. )—This most important
body will be wedded to the maintenance of our institu-
tions by the measure now under discussion, and by doing
this we are converting into our most powerful allies
against those innovations and revolutionary evils which
our opponents would fain peranade the House would be
the censequenee of it, those who would be irresistible in
effecting the rashest innovations.—(Hear, hear.)—When
they considered, moreover, the hourly increasing know-
ledge of the middle climes, and their hourly incieewing-
ssnie of their own rights and importance in the state, they '
would pause before they would alienate them from all that
is wi'e, and just, and beneficent in the Constitution, in
refusing to remedy the gross abuses which time and cir-
cumstance had ing:afmd on it. He would not say alit
they would at once declare themselves in hoetire array
against that House in the event of its reje\cting the present
caneessions to their just demands ; but they would stand
aloof from them—they would hang upon and impede the
chariot wheels of the Government, till sooner or liter
they would arrest its course, and, as with the Egyp-
tian host of old, all would be overwhelmed and lost iu
die gnat flood of anarchy that would rush upon them irre-
eistibiy,—(l-lear, hear.) Toe Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man next proceeded to observe, with reference to the ob-
servetions of the Hon. Member fur Drogheda, who
spike last, on the fact, that Mr. Grattan, and Mr. Floral,
and other Irish patriots, who had in 1782 effected the
commercial indeeendence of their country, had nevertheless
great dia•ulty in getting into Paoli intent, that be thought
the Hon. Member's arguments told quite contrary to tiie
inference. It was true that Mr. Grattan and Mr. Flood
found difficulty in obtaining a seat, notwithstanding the
patriotic exertions to which Hardy, in his _Life of Char-
lemont, alludes; but why did they? Simply liscause time
representation then in force in Ireland was so essentially
one of close boreughs.—(Hear, hear.) Under a better
state of things, in which the wealth and intelligence of
the country would have their due weight in the election of
representatives, such illustrious statesmen and orators could
have no difficulty in being returned to Parliement, and
were only impeded by the close borough system which the
Hon. Member would hold out to adtniration as the means
of procuring men of talent a seat in that House, and pc-
triot statesmen an asylum in the event of a temporary un-
popularity.—(Hear.) Another argument—if argument
it might be called that argument was none—of the Hon.
Member was still more groundless. The lion. Member
asked, under the new system, what was to become of the
West India, and the East India, and other colonial inte-
rests, which at present were virtually though not directly
represented ? lie would give the lion. Member a simple
answer,—the representation would remain unaltered.—
(Hear, hear.) If they looked over the list of the bo-
roughs proposed to be disfranchised, they would find
that they were not represented by either East or West
India virtual representatives. Four East India Directors
sat in that House for places which the preseet measure •
would not affect—(Hear, hear)—and the West India it,-
ter, st had one of the members for Buckinghantsbare,
for Sandwich, for Rochester, for Crickdale, and for Fawn-
fries : all of which places.would remain untouched by his
Noble Friend's Bill.—(Hear.) This showed how easily
a quasi plausible case was destroyed upon accurate inquiry ;
and bow easy, till such inquiry was made, it was to vamp
up a specious fallacy as a kind of argument.—(lit.ar, hear.)
Before he sat down he could not help expressing his sur-
prise—to use a mild term—at the sneers of the lion.
Member for Newport, at the middle classes of society in
this c tuntry.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Member quitted
certain expressions contained in Ecclesiasticus, respecting
the usefulness of at tisane "to be sought for in the public
counsels, or placed in a seat of judgment," as a portion uf
the sacred scripture. But this was—as perhaps the. Hoc.
Member was too dignified to learn—(Hear, and a laugh)
—an error. The passage quoted by the Hun. Member
was a part of the Apocrypha—(Hear, hear)—and like the
argument founded upon it, was spurious and apocryphal.
_(Hear, hear.) There were other points which be
would, at a future occasion, offer a few Observations upon. .
At present he would only call upon the opponents of the
great and most beneficent measure they were discussing to
reflect on the course they were pursuing. Toe clamour
which had been so long raised, and with too much suc-
cess, against the Catholic Relief Bill, had yielded to
the wisdom of experience ; showing that hunian pre-
science, even in the wisest, and the most confidently pro-
phetic of the evils of the present measure, amongst them
was not infallible : so would it sooner or later, with re-
spect to the stiil greater question of Reform.—(Hear,
hear.) Let them grant the people their just rights—(Loud
cries of " hear")—for so far from its following that
therefore a concession of their unjust demands must be
the consequence, he maintained that by granting what was
just and right, they strengthened themselves against the ,
encroachments of what was unjust and not right.—
(Hear.) By doing so, they would, be acquitted in their
own consciences, and might with confidence leave their
fame to their country, and the event to Providence.
Mr. O'CONNELL then troved the further adjournment
of the debate to to-morrow, this day.
Several Hon. Members objected.
Lord ALTHORP said that he trusted that if the debate
was then adjourned, it would be on the understanding
that it was to be brought to a close this evening.—(Cries
of " hear, hear," and " No, no.")

The debate was then adjourned to this day.
ARRANGEMENT FOR THE SECOND READING

OF THE REFORM BILL.

Thu Marquis of CHANDOS wished to ask the Noble
Lord what arrangement he proposed us to the second
reading ?
Lord ALTHORP was desirous that the second reading
should he arranged so that there should be full time before
the Easter recesv. lie therefore intended to propose that
the second reading should take place on next Monday
se'nnight. The measure would then have been before the
public for nearly three weeks, and be thought that that
was ample time.
The Marquis of CHANDOS said that be could not
agree to such an arrangement ; and if the Noble Lord
persis!ed in putting off the second reading to so long a
period, he should take that course, which, as a Member
Parli•unect, he had a right to do.
Lord EIIRINGTON—I beg to ask my Noble Relative
what that course is?—(Tremendous cheers. )—Hebas asked
my Noble Friend a question on courtesy, and I therefore
trust that be will extend the same courtesy to me.

The Marquis of CHANDOS would tell his Noble Re-
lative the course he intended to pursue, if the second read-
ing of `the Bill was delayed longer than that day week ;
he should, when the Mutiny Bill and Supplies were
brought forward, use that privilege, which his Noble He •
lative was well aware he had the power of doing.—(A
laugh, and hear, hear.)
Sir JAMES GRAHAM—I think, Sir, that after the
threat of the Noble Mirquis, I cannot do better than avail
myself of the present opportunity of moving the third read-
ing of the Mutiny Bill.—(Continned cheering.) t
On the question being put from the Chair,
An HoN. Mk:sit:Ea stated that the late Secretary at
War (Mr. Wynn) had informed him that very evening
that he should not move the third reading of the Mutiny
Bill till Thursday or Friday.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that, under those circum-
stances, he would consent to postpone the third reading
to this day, when the Secretary at War would be in his
place, and an opportunity be afforded for any subsequent
arrangement.
Mr. WATSON presented a petition from Canterbury,
praying that the House will sanction the measure of Re-
form brought forward by his Majesty's Ministers. !FIB
stated that all the accounts which he had received that
morning from the country, expi eased the highest approba-
tion of the measure, and that as an enemy to radical and
revolutionary principles,,he should give his support on the
present occasion to his Majesty as he believed
the plan which they had submitted to Parliament to I a
just, necessary, and conservative.
The Marine Bill, after a few words from Sir E. Knateh-
bull, Sir James Graham, Mr. Goulburn, and Lord Al-
thorp, was read a third time and passed.
The other Orders of the Day were then dispcsA of,
and the house adjourned at Ha'f-past One.

ANECDOTE.—The Duchess of M A RL-
BOROUGH, at her evening conversations, eccssiona!ly
covered her head with her handkerchief, and was then sup-
posed to be asleep. She was in that state one evening,
xt
a time at 'which she was much displeased with her grand'
:-
'sutintid,etihttini e Ai
n 1
fir.uJe on
cHetioSf Pi‘Eitir.o forFF:l4.o,x, wahco.t ;eat
' exc Waloods. .11 Ott 4t rgai
►
iii!r.l!!;.,,
goo.o Y 7-- The sAtrchmontPaAers. as
rtsbteicleenlivedrtt
tinned, she en

NAVAL INTELLIGENCE.

(Prom the Portsmouth Herald of Sunday.)

PORTSMOUTH, MARCH 6.—The Lightning, Navy Board
osteam-vessel, Mr. John Allen, master, returned on Sunday
from Plymouth, on her way to Sheerness, whither she pro-
ceeded yesterday, with the effects ef the late lamented Capt.
Sir Robert Spencer, which have been brought home in
the Pallas.
His Majesty's frigate Druid, 46. Capt. G. W. Hamilton,
arrived this day from Rio Janeiro, with Capt. Burgess,
and the officers and crow of the late unfortunate frigate
Thetis. A Court-martial will take place, to inquire into
the circumstances of the loss of the above ship, together
with the whole of the specie on board, none of which has
been recovered.
His Majesty's ship Pallas, 42, is ordered into harbour,
to be paid off and recommissioned.
His Majesty's ships Gloucester, 74 ; Ganges, 84 ;
North Star, 28 ; Childers, 18 ; and Ariadne, 28, are
waiting for a fair wind to sail for their different destinations.
His Majesty's ship Gloucester, 76, Capt. F. H. Coffin,
arrived on Friday from Gibraltar. She is under orders to
be paid off at Sheerness. She brought home passengers
Commander Smith, R.N. and lady; Don Caystan de
Guard, late a Lieutenant-Colonel in the Spanish army;
Mr. R. C. Trench, and Mr. Newell, a clerk in thequaran.
tine department at Gibraltar; and one Lieutenant, two
Non-Commissioned Officers and twelve privates, from that
garrison. A large piece of rock still remains in her bot-
tom, planked and coppered over.
Paostartosts, ArrotsTrateters, &c.—Lieutenant Henry
West is appointed to his Majesty's ship Windsor Castle,
vice Fraser, promoted. Lieutenant W. G. N. King is
appointed to the Windsor Castle, vice Grey, removed to
his Talsjeety's ship Alfred. Lieutenant George Demur-
dour is appointed to the Ordinary, at Sheernee, vice
Moir, ill. Commanders John F. Appleby and James
Morgan (b) are appointed to the Preventive Service in
Sussex, lately occupied by the Blockade. Commander
W. Tapp, on the half-pay of seven shillings a day, is
appointed Retired Commander, at eight shillings a day, vice
Miller, deceased. Lieutenant Henry Clark is promoted
to the rank of Retired Commander, on seven shillings a
day. Mr. Henry F. Gifford, acting Lieutenant in his
Majesty's ship Shannon, is confirmed in the rank of Lieu-
! mant. Mr. John M. Merchant, is appointed Purser of
tlte Alfred, and Mr. David Harvey is appointed Assistant
Surgeon of the same ship. Captain Henry Timson, of
this Division of Royal Marines, is appointed to his Ma-
jesty's ship Ganges, vice R. Mercer, sick. Second Lieut.:.
tient Phineas Priest, R. M., is appointed to his Majesty's
skip Kent, at Plymouth.
We believe it has been at length determined to reduce
that efficient corps the Royal Marine Artillery, to one-
half of its present number, leaving only four companies.
The detachments at Plymouth, Chatham, and Woolwich,
have all been ordered to join their head. quarters at this
garrison ; the former detachment has already arrived here,
the other two are, we believe, hourly expected. The men
are to have the option of enlisting in the corps of Royal
Artillery, for which purpose one Field-officer, a Deputy
Assistant Adjutant-General, and a detachment of the
Royal Artillery, are expected here from Woolwich, to re-
ceive such men of the Royal Marine Artillery as may be
willing to be transferred to the Royal Artillery.
We have reason to believe that the recent appointment
of Sir James Cockburn to the rank of Major-General in
the Royal Marines has been cancelled, and that Colonel
Savage will succeed Major-General Campbell as the head
of that corps. Other alterations are talked of, but we
have no better authority than common report for any, ex-
cepting one, viz.—that there will in future be but one
surgeon to the corps of Royal Marines avid Royal Marine
Artillery at this division. This reduction, it is thought,
will be effected by granting a well-earned superannuation to
James Rickman, Esq. after a faithful servitude of nearly
half a century; by which the medical charge of this divi-
sion will devolve on Dr. Quarrier. It is somewhat sin-
gular that not only has the appointment of Sir James
Cockburn, although it appeared in the Gazette of the 25th
silt. never been officially announced to the corps, but there
has been no official announcement even of the retirement of
Major-General Campbell, which took place full a month
ago.—Letters on service from the various divisions are
directed, to this day, to Major-General Campbell.
(From the Devonport Telegraph.)
DEVONPORT, MAacu 6.—lt is reported that the Bri-
tannia, on her return from the Mediterranean, will lie as
flag-ship at Portsmouth. The St. Vincent is not ex-
pected to sail for that station until May.
The Amphitrite transport sailed on Saturday for Wool-
wich. The Vigilant ketch sailed on Monday for Ports.
mouth.—Thejtoyalist and Leveret tenders sailed on Tues-
day for Cork.
On Wednesday the 23d ult. the Preventive Service men
stationed at East Looe end Polrtutn, under the command
of Lieuts. Lawrence and Hooper, R.N., captured thirty-
one tubs of contraband spirits, and lodged them in the
Custom-house at Fowey.
Sound—Kent, Argyle convict ship, Orestes, Arab, and
Amity transports.

It will be seen by an advertisement in this day's
Sun, that Mr. RIDGWAY has announced his inten-
tion of printing, in red and black, for distribution,
authenticated lists of the Divisions, when they take
place, on the Question of Reform. At the present
crisis such an announcement is highly seasonable.

The KING has appointed Wednesday next, at
half-put one, to receive the addresses of the Corporation,
voted at the Common Council on Friday last relative to
the Reform question.
There is a rumour that Mr. Hon HOUSE is to
be the new Secretary of War, in the room of Mr. C. W.
WYNN. Another rumour says, Lord NUGENT is to suc-
ceed to that office.—Morning Paper.
The Election Committee hare this day de.
dared Sir ROGER GRESLEY, Bart., unduly elected.
s.

The Petition in favour of Reform from the
members of the English Bar, which was only drawn up
late on Monday evening, has already received an unprece-
dented number of signatures, including the names of many
of the most eminent men in the profession.
At Salisbury a meeting was held on Friday,
when a petition was unanimously agreed to and signed
by the Members of the Corporation and others, to the
number, the first day, of 600, in which they " deprecate
in the strongest terms all unconstitutional opposition to a
plan of Reform so fraught with benefit to the country."
The two most amusingly prominent personages
in Air. HOOK'S Novel, entitled " Maxwell," are Apper-
ton, the stockbroker, and Godfrey Moss, the humorist,
(or Mr. Borchelt of the tale), who have become esta-
blished favourites, with all those that possess a relish far
genuine character and humour.
Some alarm was spread this morning (Mon-
day) in the money-market, in consequence of the failure
of the banking-house of SANSOM and POSTLETMWAITE,
of Lombard-street, a firm of very old standing, but at
present, it appears, carrying on business on so reduced a
scale that the failure has become a matter of no general
importance. The house had the agency for two country
banks only. The cause a•s+gned for the stoppage is the
apprehension of a run, from the previous circulation of
reports injurious to its credit, and which the partners, not
being prepared to meet, considered it but an act of justice
to the creditors to resort to the course they have adopted.
There has not occurred, however, any run upon the house,
and the event seems, on the contrary, to have been
wholly unexpected in the city. A statement is to be pre-
pared and submitted in a few days to the creditors, when
the real situation of the house will be ascertained, and

.he eourse determined on which it will be proper to
4 lor. -- Times.
'here is now no doubt in the City on the

subject of the Reform Bill. The country is roused from
one end to the other, and without waiting to take the tone
from the metropolis, they have actually, in many places,
preceded it, and the universal cry is " Reform ! Reform!"
The cry, too, a. regards the system of Reform, is as unani-
mous as the demand for it is universal. No one talks about
the ballot—no one talks about universal suffrage.--indi-
vidual opinions are sacrificed upon the altar of public good,
and the people of England have given the lie direct to the
assertion that they are split into factions, and that they
entertain revolutionary opinions. With hearts overflow.
ing with gratitude, they ...I.ls to accept the plan of Reform
offered them by our patriot KiNG and his Ministers, as a
boon, rather than to demand it as a right. Sir ROBERT
PEEL, the other evening, said, and said truly, that " the
Government could not he carried on in opposition to pub-
lic opinion." We would ask the Right Hon. Baronet whe-
ther he does not think public opinion is in favour of Reform?
and if lie answer " yes," as he must do, we think that, ac-
cording to his own showing, Reform is inevitable. Indeed,
it is said, that Sir ROBERT is so convinced of this,
shat he is already half determined to offer no further op-
As an instance of the universe
pisition to the me asure. n
favour of this great question, we may
-
lay of the feeling i
observe that the Aristocratic Ward of Broad-street will
meet to morrow to petition both Houses of Parliament
that the Reform Bill now before the House of C. ommons
do pass into a law. It is a curious fact, that with one ex-
ception only, there has not been a meeting in this ward
o
redress grievances for the last 40 years...- He-

REFORM MEETINGS IN SUPPORT OP

:HIS MAJESTY'S MINISTERS:

COMMON HALL

Yesterday, pursuant to a requiSition presented to the Lord
Mayor, very .numerottsly anti respectably signed, his Lordship
convened a Coninion Hall, to consider what steps the Corpora-
tion should take with respect to the measure of Reform.
The LORD MAYOR stated the nature of the meeting, anti
concluded by hoping that they would be unanimous oft this most
important question.—(Cheers.)
Mr. FEARON came forwank fof the purpose of gi'vir4t the
Parliament and the King al ass:Ural-lee of his satisfaction and
gratitude to the Administration for the m'ealstire of Reform they

.....
had offered t 6 the eciuntry.=(Hear, hear.) He was quite aware
that the enemies to Patliamentary Reform were the enemies of
freedom.—(Loud cheers.) Their object was, anti their only hope,
although they called theinselves friends to the Constitution, to
sow the seeds of dlseord among the friends of liberty, and by
that means tb defeat the measure.—(Continned Cheering.) He re-
commended the nation to receive it as a boon—as a great bless-
ing. He did not expect his MaXsty's Ministers would come for-
ward with a measure that Would disfranchise sixty rotten bo-
roughs.—(Hear, hear.) It was so important, that it ought to be
taken as it was, and received with unbounded confidence. He
entered into a detailed reply to the arguments of some of the bp.
ponents of the measure, particularly those, of Sir It. Peel and
Ur. Horace miss, which he ridiculed,iti a hippy vein, and con-
gratulated the livery on that plinZipte of the plan which ex.
eluded non-residents frem *oling. Although he had expected
that the time Was at'ivriiiehing fast when the voice of the people
would prevaik, hr never expected that it was so close at hand,
or that iiilnlsters would be seen coming forward themselves to
disfranchise sixty rotten boroughs, and to send adrift r7O wicked
Members covered with disgrace.—(Laught& atid cheers.) Mr.
Fearon next referred to the mutpdpal rights which the livery
were willing to relinquish in Wii:4deration of the immense pub-
lic good. He conclitile'l oy quoting from the noble author of the
Reform 'answer to the doubt as to the passing of the
measure, What ! not pass a measure supported by the people
and Wilvocated by the King ; not pass! impossible. It mutt pass
—it shall pass."—(lmmense cheering.)
Mr. W. WILLIAMS, of Watling.stnY.t, seconded the reso-

lution.
The resolution was retitd unanimously and amidst tremen
dons cheering, the Lord Mayor and Aldermen standing up and
waving their hats.
Mt. TOOKE (of Bedford-row) moved the second resoltition.
fie spoke in terms of the highest praise of his Majesty and his
Ministers. The Livery would show that they were opposed to
that factious band who interfered letween the Crown and the
people, and who had estahlithed apower behind the throne gfeater
than the throne Rah.
Mr. WILKINSON (of Finsbury-circus) gieConded the reso-
lutisse.
Mr. C. PEARSON moved the thlrd resolution. The Livery
had been for many years the consistent advocates of Reform, and
it should never be said that they were so selfish as to oppose this
great measure el" public benefit because Sir Charles SN'etherell,
Mr. Twist., and other tools of the boroughmongers, endearoliked
to ,idle them by referring to the times of those with Were equally
With themselves the enemies of public Itlility—Sir R. Sawyer,
Judge Jeftlies, and other odious n 4 itif3lis of the Stuarts.—(Cheers.)
What had made there r,entiy thus suddenly the friends and
champions of the .... Y They used to turn up their noses at
the greasy el'332:ns, and treat their public meetings as farce, and
now a Jesdas kiss they wanted to embrace them, and with
tht ardour of an impassioned lover sang
" Dear creatures we can't do without you,
You are all that is sweet and Seduting to Man,
Sighing, dying about and about you
We'll die for you, .lo for you all that we can."
—(Loud laughter and cheers.) That Sir Charles Wetherell
should Silpport the system and oppose the Bill was nothing won-
derful. He was the creature, the tool, of the Duke of New.
castle, whose cruel conduct at Newark had done so much to
convince the public of the necessity of Reform. 3lr. Horace
Twiss, another tidrthy opposer of the Bill, had rendered himself
conspicucrtt by impudently stating that the middling classes were
unfit to exercise the elective franchise, "such as shopkeepeei and
Hi all attorneys, retired tradesmen, members of sittall clubs, and
persons of that description—persons of narrow minds and bigotted
views."—(Laughter.) 'Fhe alltishln to small attorneys was cer-
tainly comical. Mr. TvvlsS Was not an attorney though he had
served his apprt,ntieship to one; but whether he was too idle or
too stupid ti pick up his crumbs at that profession, certain it was
thAt he had exchanged it for a much more degrading one, by
Making himself a pander to the depraved political appetites of the
great and intriguing boroughmongering
,adventurers.—(Cheers.)
As Mr. Twins lauded so highly the capability, mental and moral,
of those Members whq obtained their seats by the corrupt means
ofborough patron:lV, he had taken the trouble to investigate the
character of the place which returned that Hon. Gentleman
himstlf, he found that it contained 2.2 voters, and, with ten other
boroughs in the Isle of Wight, all belonging to one family of the
name of Holmes, sent six Members to represent lilt) electors.
and a pretty set of representatives was the result—for in the pen-
sion list of Charles 11., he found this notice of Sir Robert
Holmes, Member the :Tilton, Isle of Wight. He was a cow-
ardly baffiedsea captain, twice boxed, and once whipped with a
dog whip. He was chosen in the night by one burgess, and
again re-elected.—(Cheers and laughter.) He did not know
whether that ceremony was a qualification for that borough, but
he was certainly of opinion that a little of such treatment might
teach Mr.Twiss to do the dirty work of his patrons, without abu-
sing his betters—the midcillug daises of society.—(Cheers.)
Mr. COATES sedoilded the resolution.
Mr. RICHARDSON (a Common Councilman for Cripplegate)
stood forward to express his unwillingness to yield up any of the
City privileges, but was most indignantly and universally hooted.
Alderman WAITHMAN spoke in favour of the resolution.
Mr. LEDGER moved the fourth resolution, and Mr. LAW-
RENCE, of Watling-street, seconded it. It was to the effect
that the City Members Should be instructed to support the mea-
sure in Paths:tient.
Mr, WARD, M.P. came to the Hall to face his constituents,
and to tell them plainly and intelligibly the course he intended
to pursue. He most respectfully declined complying with the
suggestions of the meeting.—(Here the hooting was beyond all
description.)
Alderman WOOD addressed the meeting amidst cheers, and
told them they knew the course he should pursue.
Alderman THOMPSON said that he felt it his duty three
Teat ago to support Lord John Russell's plan of Reform, and he
should do the same with respect to the present measure.
Alderman WAITHMAN should with all his might support

the resolution.
Mr. HUNT, M.P. came forward, and was received with cheers
He had to offer a few observations, not in opposition to the re.
solutions, as he did not wish to injure the unanimity of the
meeting, but he would feel that he sacrificed the honesty and
boldness of the character he had ever maintained, if he did not
thus publicly avow, that the measure would not satisfy him,
unaccompanied by an extension of suffrage, and election by bal-
lot.—(Disapprobation.) Although he did not intend to propose
any resolution on the question of ballot, he declared his unalter-
able attachment to that measure, as the only means of securing
the honest and independent exercise of the elective franchise.—
(Hisses and applause, and cries of " Bring that forward another
time, Mr. Hunt.")
Mr. COBBETT presented himself to the meeting, but these
was a manifest indisposition to hear him. He was understood
not to offer any opposition to the measure, but the noise was so
great, that the few words he spoke could not be distinctly heard,
and having retired,
Mr. PEARSON moved a vote of thanks to the Lord Mayor,
which was received with cheers and waiving of hats.
The LORD MAYOR then stood forward amidst loud cheers.
He felt happy in the opportunity afforded him of adding his tes-
timony in support of the measure before Parliament, of avowing
his warmest approbation of, and confidence in, his Majesty's
Ministers, and tendering his humble and grateful thanks to his
beloved and gracious sovereign for the paternal care which he
had always shown to his people, for the liberal and gracious con-
duct which he had invariably manifested for their welfare, and the
confidence which he had beenpleased to reposein his honest and en-
lightened Ministers.—(Cheers.)—He felt no hesitation in
saying that the measure which Ministers proposed was one of the
greatest and most important ever brought before Parliament; and
that on the result depended the happiness, the prosperity, and
the peace of our country.—(Cheers.)—Happily we had a patriotic
King, a liberal, enlightened, and generous King, a King who
consulted not his own aggrandisement but the happiness, the
comfort, and the prosperity of his people.—(Cheers.)—Where,
could they point to a Monarch who at his accession to the throne
had not increased the expenditure, with the single exception of
William the Fourth, who had, to his own honour and the be-
nefit of his people, commenced its glories by diminishing the
charges of royalty ? Where could they find a Monarch who had
not availed himself of the offers of his Ministers and people, and
accepted a large and costly outfit for his Queen.—(lmmense
cheering.)—Happily for the people of England, also they had
a liberal and conscientious Ministry. In former years they had
beheld men, when out of power, advocating principles of Re-
form and retrenchment; but in power, forgetting and abandon-
ing every atom of those measures which were their former
boast and recommendation, and giving to the credulous people
a miserable disappointment. Such was not now the case.
Lord Grey having through life advocated a liberal and en-
lightened policy, and opposed the lavish expenditure of the
country's wealth, entered with his Hon. Colleagues into office
with pledges of economy, retrenchment, and Reform, and they
had most nobly redeemed their pledges.—(Cheers.) He had al
most forgotten to refer to another vast and extensive Reform
which Lord Broughain had brought forward, and by so doing had
added another wreath to that crown of well-earned public ap-
probation which before adorned his brow—the great legal Re-
form, the benefit of which would be felt in every quarter of the
land, and which, if it were the solitary act of the Lord Chan-
cellor's life, would entitle him to the approbation of the present,
and the gratitude of succeeding generations.—(Loud cheers.)
Such were the honest and upright Ministers who had thrown
themselves on the people for support.—(Cheers.) It was worth
while to direct the attention of the Livery to the parties from
whom the opposition to the free and admirable course adopted by
his Majesty's Ministers came. The clamour was raised not by the
people, nor by the real representatives of the people, but by those
who had arrogated to themselves privileges to which they had
no claim, and who were fearful of losing their influence amongst
the representatives of the people, which the Constitution never
intended they should possess, and who were then making a des-
perate effort to retain that influence which, when the great mea-
sure was carried, would be wrested from them for ever. But
while, he said, it was from the boroughmongers the opposition
came, he should do injustice if he did not say that there were
some honourable exceptions—liberal and enlightened men fol-
lowing the bright example of the Marquis of Cleveland, who had
forgotten all private interest, and who, although he had immense
property vested in boroughs, had stood forward the unconditional
champion of Reform.—(Cheers.) The Hall then broke up.

PARISH OF ST. MARYLEB ONE.
Yesterday, at one o'clock, a very numerous meeting of the in-
habitants of St. Marylebone was held at the Horse Bazaar, King_
street, Portman-square, for the purpose of passing resolutions
expressing their approval of the plan of Reform now before the
House of. Commons, and to agree to petitions to that body and
to the King.
Mr. HU 51E, in moving that Mr. Smith, late Member for Nor-
wich, do take the chair, stated that it was a remarkable coinci-
dence that that gentleman was Chairman of the Committee (in
1795) on the subject of Reform, when the celebrated petition
was presented by the present Lord Grey to the Legislature, ex-
posing the corrupt system of representation.—(Che&s.)
Mr. SMITH having taken the chair, eulogised the plan of
Reform now before the House of Commons, and was happy to
perceive that the whole country hailed it with the greatest satis-
faction.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman concluded' by saying,
that he had read the resolutions that would be submitted to the
meeting, and he highly approved of them.—(Cheers)
Colonel JONES, in moving the first resolicion, congratulated
the meeting upon assembling fur so great an object as they had
done to-day.—(Cheers.) Though the plan of Reform wa a
s notfor so
extensive as some persons wished—(Hear)—yet it was good
which the people had, during a long period, raised their voices,
and for which they were ready to risk their lives ; and ifof a
the
boroughmongering faction were to oppose the just demands
patriotic King and his enlightened Ministers, those enemies of
liberty would tied that the people would sacrifice their lives in de-
fence of their liberties.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. WHATELY, in seconding the resolution, eulogized the
conduct of Ministers, and in allusion to the known sanction of
the King to the measure in question, said that he did not think
there was a name which could be handed down to posterity ac-
companied
by more pleasing and grateful remembrances than
would be that of William the Reformer.—(Loud and enthusi-
astic cheering and waving of hats followed this sentiment.)
Dr. CROOK said that it was not a revolution, but a renovation
of the Constitution, which the people of England wanted.
The Address was then read, and was received with immense
cut:rcheering—andr,:rtiniiied,ettihareeemsmigreattlehavingeitttiithe
mostb been
deafening
applause. b: r. Underwood, was
Sir SAaIUEL WHALLEY, in moving a resolution, called
resolution
nbg
j,,enc,oastt
wtsoe,aroefnula,llixeydfaocbrcyooini‘neiprili.iisonhmoedeNn—Nt Loud theirc exertions,heerin g)
R.
Mr. WALDEN addressed the meeting in a powerful speech,
for which we regret that we cannot find room even for an outline.
Several other Gentlemen addressed the meeting, and petitions
were Afirettl to to both Nowt of Parliament; thgt to thy Idords

to be presented by Lord tourham, and the other to the House of
commons by Joseph Hume, Esq.. M.P. for Middlesex,
Mr. HUME, who had been several times called for, came far.
ward, and there was an immediate and general cry of " hats
off," and the multitude in the side and in the surrounding
galleries were uncovered (the ladies, of whom there was a good
sprinkling, of course excepted), and nine huzzas were ven.
The Hon. Gentleman having thanked the meeting for the grati-
fying reception they had given him, said, his face was not new to
them, and he believed might say, also, that they had then be-
fore hem an slid friend.—(Cheers.)—When he first met them,
matey years ago, when the cause which they were now met toad.
voeate Was Considered all but hopeless, he supported the great
principle of Reform—and his advice to the people then was,
persevere and you must evelittially obtain your end. Per.
severance was his Motto, and they now saw the effect ofcries it.—
of
(Cheers.)—He had no doubt of ultimate success.—(d
bravo.)—The privileges which they sought were their right, and
they cannot longer be withheld. The lion. Member went on to
describe the overpowering tone which the public voice had as.
sumed, and mentioned that lie had that morning received a great
number of letters and several petitions, which he had to present
to the House that evening. He had received one petition in
favour of the measure from Bridport, one of the boroughs that
was to lose one of its Members, and that petition had been agreed
to in sixtreh hours after the report of the plan of Reform had
reached the town.—(Loud cheering.)
A resolution was then carried, that the Chairman should be
requested to forward the address to the King to Earl Grey, in
order to its being presented to his Majesty:
Thanks were then voted to the Chairman, and at half-past five
the meeting separated.

SP. 130 NS TAN, FLEE T- STREE
An unusually numerous vestry meeeting of the parishioners of
St. Dunstan, Fleet-street, took place yesterday, in the spacious
room of Mr. Stangate, Chancery-lane, for the purpose of sup-
porting Ministers.
EDWARD BROWN..Esq, in the Chair.
Mr. BUTTERWORTH considered it highly desirable that
the proicht meeting should give every possible support to the
plan of Reform brought forward by Ministers. He declared it
one of the best that could have been devised for securing a pro-
per represation of the middling classes, and putting an end to
the evils of the rotten borough system London and its neigh-
bourhood would participate largely in the advantages of the pro.
posed Bill, the adoption of which would give security to all
classes of the community. Mr. Butterworth, after some further
observations on the policy, justice, and necessity of the proposed
measure, concluded by moving a resolution to that effect.
Mr. RAMSHAW (of the Common Council) seconded it.
Messrs. SAVAGE and FARLOW, Common Councilmen, and
Messrs. WALLER and CHARLES, afterwards addressed the meet-
ing, and warmly advocated the cause of Reform.
The resolution was carried by acclamation, and a petition
grounded upon it directed to be prepared, and placed in the
hands of Alderman Waithman, for presentation to the House of
Commons. _

S O UTIIIVARK-( THIS DAY).
The electors of Southwark met this morning in the Town-hall,
for the purpose of expressing their opinion of Lord John Russell's
plan of Reform.
The HIGH-BAILIFF presided, and, having read the requi-
sition, called the attention of the meeting to the purpose for
which they were convened.
Mr. ELLIS first addressed the meeting, and commenced by
observing that, since the overthrow of Buonaparte, we had had
fifteen years of peace, and yet the national debt had not been at
all decreased, owing to the mismanagement and misrule of the
Governtnent....(Hear.) The interest had been reduced, it was
trite, but it was only through the assistance of the poorer class
of stock-holders while persons enjoying salaries of 9.,000/. and
3,C00/. a year, had not suffered any reduction. In contracting
the late Administration with the present, however, the country
had reason to congratulate itself on the prospect of a beneficial
alteration in its public affairs.—(Hear.) Already they had done
much to benefit the manufacturing districts.—(Hear.) But never
could the abuses and ells the country had suffered be removed.
without Parliamentary Reform. He adverted in terms of appro-
bation to the conduct of Lord Brougham for his Chancery Reform
and his resignation of emoluments, comparing it to the magna-
nimity of the Marquis of Camden. The Ministers had redeemed
their pledge.—(Hear.)—He hoped his Majesty's Greys would
draw the state-carriage safe into the town of Retrenchment
through the citadel of Reform.—(Hear and applause.)—He
thought the Reform plan of the Ministry most admirable, and
they had_acted wisely in not fettering it with minor particulars.
(Hear.)—He concluded by proposing a resolution to the effect
that the electors of the borough of Southwark cordially approved
of the plan of Reform before the House of Commons.
Mr. B. WOOD seconded the resolution. He observed that
few were manly enough to say there was no necessity at all for
Reform; but there were cavillers who said the present plan was
calculated to destroy the aristocracy of the lower classes ; if so
the middle class would possess the representation, and so they
should, for they possessed the property of the country.—(Hear.)
The borough of Southwark might be a fair sample of how this
system had worked.—(Hear.) It was very plain to the most
casual observer that interested persons only opposed the present
plan of Reform—witness Sir Robert Peel—(Hear)—and the Hon.
Member for Gatton—(Hear)—and in fact all of them. Argu-
ments were unnecessary to prove the propriety of that plan which
it might be said all the people saw and knew.—(Hear.) But
compensation was talked of.—(Laughter.) Compensation, indeed.
For what ?—for robbing the public.—(Hear.) After remarking
at some length on this topic, he observed in answer to those who
impudently said the representation is now good enough, that in
twenty-one boroughs he named there were only 94 voters, who
sent 42 Members to Parliament.—Mr. Wood sat down amidst
loud applause.
Mr. WALKER thought the last speaker had paid a poor com-
pliment to the plan of Reform by referring as he did to the bo-
rough of Southwark, which he contended was not independent,
nor pure enough to be considered a model for the country. He
then proceeded to speak in support of the plan. Its opponents
did not meet it by argument, because they could not, but by abuse.
They called it in contempt a purge—(Laughter)—Russell's purge.
He hoped it would prove so, and purge the House of Commons
of its corruptions.—(Hear and applause.) It would prove more :
it would be Russell's renovator or restorator of the rights of Eng-
lishmen.—(Applause. )
The resolution was then put and carried.—(Loud cheering.)
The Hall was crowded to excess, and every avenue was
full of persons anxious to hear. Some merriment was excited
' at the eagerness with which persons rushed into the prisoner's
dock, when the High Bailiff ordered it to be thrown open to re-
lieve the pressure.
Mr. SOLOMON DAVIS was addressing the meeting in sup-
• port of an address to the King, when our reporter left.

LAW STUDENTS.
The following is a copy of the petition agreed to by the Law
Students of the Four Inns of Court. It has obtained very
numerous signatures, and will be presented to-night
" TO THE HONOURABLE THE COMMONS, &C.
" The humble petition of the" undersigned Students and Mem.
bers of the Inns of Court, practising below the Bar,
" Sheweth,—That your petitioners have heard with great satis-
faction that a measure, sanctioned by his Majesty's Ministers,
has been introduced into your Honourable House for the pur.
pose of reforming the representation of the people in the Com-
mons House of Parliament.
" That your petitioners verily believe such measure to accord
alike with the form and the spirit of the Constitution—to involve
no danger, and to be eminently calculated to secure and to per-
petuate the benefits of civilization and social order, and your
petitioners therefore pray the said measure may pass into slaw."

Extracts from various letters received this day by Joseph
Hume, Esq., M.P., on the subject of Reform :
" NEWPORT, ISLE OF WIGHT, MARCH 6.
" I beg to inform you that a petition signed by 1,450 persons,
is this day forwarded by post, directed to you at the House of
Commons. It was drawn up on Friday evening, and received
the whole of the signatures yesterday, the greatest part of them
are the most respectable inhabitants of this island, many of whom
never signed a petition for Reform before. A public meeting will
be called at an early day this week, to address his Majesty
and petition the House of Lords. I beg to inform you that the
reformers of this town have formed a political association."
" GLASGOW, Malicti 5.
" We contemplate adopting immediate measures for giving our
cordial support to Ministers in their plan of Reform. The ex.
citement and enthusiasm seem to be increasing, and persons
formerly averse to Reform now give to the measure of Ministers
their cordial support. It is rumoured here this evening, that
Henry Monteith and Campbell of Blythswood have declared
their intention of supporting Ministers on this occasion."
"LEICESTER, MARCH 7.
" We, the undersigned inhabitants of the Town of Leicester
and its vicinity, request our fellow townsmen to meet on Wed-
nesday morning next, the 9th of March, 1831, at eleven o'clock,
at Mr. I'aget's late Committee Rooms, Millstone-lane, for the
purpose of expressing our satisfaction at the great measure of
Reform brought forward by his Majesty's Ministers, and to
adopt such other measures as may be judged necessary on this
occasion... Sir, I have forwarded you the above to tes-
tify that the inhabitants of this town are awake to
the importance of the great measure of Reform, introduced
by his Majesty's Ministers. I have the satisfaction to add,
that the: advocates of universal suffrage and ballot, agree to
remain passive on those subjects, not wishing to give their oppo-
nents a handle, with which to embarrass Government."
" DUNDEE, Mown 5.
" On Monday or Tuesday we shall have a meeting of the in-
habitants to address his Majesty and Parliament, expressing their
satisfaction with the plan of Reform. Every one that 1 have
spoken with is highly pleased with the great outline. We are all
most anxious to get the result."

" CHICHESTER, MARCH 5.
" All classes of Reformers with which I have come in contact
hail with pleasure and satisfaction the measure proposed by Ills
Majesty's Ministers, and join in agreeing that the question of
the duration of Parliaments and vote by ballot should for the
present nut be agitated,'

" POOLE, MARCH 3.
" TO THE HIGH SHERIFF OF THE TOWN AND COUNTY OF POOLE.
" Sir,—We request you to convene a public meeting of the
inhabitants, for the purpose of offering our hearty congratula-
tions to his Majesty's Ministers upon the recently proposed mea-
sure for Reform in Parliament, with our hope that the same may
be fully and efficiently carried into effect, as upon this important
measure we consider the welfare and tranquillity of the country
to depend.' '"
,4
To this requisition, which was most numerously and respec-
tably signed, the High-Bailiff has readily acceded."