The Sun.
London, England, 1838-01-26 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jex._.2.5.

The SPRAKER took the Chair shortly b'efore Four o'Clock.
Sir W. W. WYNN took the oaths and his seat. In
coati quence of the extreme debility of the Hon. Baronet,
the oaths were administered to Lim sitting, and his brother,
Mr. C. W. Wynn subscribed the Parliamentary Roll on
his behalf.
Mr. DENNISTOUN presented a petition from Glas-
gow against the clause on the Fishguard Harbour Bill,
enacting the payment of passing tolls.
Mr. MACKINNON presented a petition from a Ge-
neral Officer, whose name he (lid not state, praying for no-
minees to be appointed in all election Committees, as had
been hitherto the case.
Lord G. BENTINCK presented a-petition from Kings
Lynn, signed,by every merchant in the place, without excep-
tion, praying for the reduction of the duty on Marine
Insurances.
Mr. PARROTT presented petitions from Totness, in
favour of the vote by Ballot, and the abolition of the system
of Negro apprenticeship in the West Indies.
Mr. HOWARD presented ts petition from the Corpo-
ration of Carlisle, praying for the establishment of a better
system of national educati,n.
Mr. JAMES presented a petition from Carlisle in fa-
♦our of the Ballot.
Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition from Brid-
port, praying for the abolition of negro apprenticeship in
the West Indies ; also from the Baron de Bode, respect-
ing the French Claims. gave notice of his intention,
at a future time, to bring the case under the consideration
of the House. He therefore moved that the petition be
printed with the Votes.
Mr. A. WHITE presented a petition from Sunderland,
praying for a repeal of the duties on Marine Insurances.
Mr. LEADER presented petitions from parishes in
Westminster, Finsbury, and Salisbury, against any coer-
cive measures being taken with respect to Canada ; also
one from Frederick Grim, who complained that in 1812 he
had been induced to give up his pension of 41. a year, by
the promise of receiving a grant of land in Ca-
nada, and a free passage to that country. He
had never received that grant of land nor even
his passage. After application he had received his
pension again, but he never received any of the arreaz s cf
his pension for 17 years. He, therefore, prayed that his
case might be taken into consideration.
The SPEAKER said that according to the forms of
the House, the petition could not be presented, without the
consent of the Crown through the Minister.
Mr. LEADER then withdrew the petition for the pt:r-
pose of presenting it on a future occasion.
GLASGOW COTTON SPINNERS.

Mr. WAKLEY said he had a petition to present from
the Great Radical Association of London. There was a
prayer to this petition, as of course there was to all peti-
tions ; but as the petitioners had requested him to move
that it be read by the Clerk of the House, he hoped the
House would have no objection to that being done. [The
Clerk then red the petition, which was signed by the
Chairman on behalf of the Association. The petitioners
begged to call the attention of the House to the fact, that
the Jury laws of Scotland differed. from those of every other
portion of the vast dominions oilier Majesty, inasmuch as the
opinion of a majority of a Scotch Jury decided the question.
The petition went on to state that seven of the jurors had
signed a petition to the Queen praying for an arrest of
judgment. In the indictment the prisoners were charged
with acts which were spread over more than twenty years.
The people of this country would never be satisfied with
the judgment passed upon a verdict given under such cir-
cumstances, especially considering that it was the verdict,
not of fifteen jurors, but only of a majority of one out. of
fifteen. The petitioners prayed the House to assimilate
the Jury system of Scotland to that of England.]
Mr. GUEST I:;rjected to the reception of the petition,
on the ground that it contained language disrespectful to the
House. He moved that the Clerk rend over again that
passag in the petition in whieh these words occurred, " A
rabble in your Hon. House."—[The passage alluded to,
and some others were wholly inaudible in the gallery, when
the Clerk first read them.]
The Clerk accordingly read as follows ;—" That your
petitioners frequently find unworthy imputations cast upon
the working el,sses, who are sometimes designated as a
rabble. That your petitioners do not deny that there is a
rabble of the trades, as there is a rabble of the Lords,
and a rabble of the Aristocracy, but they do not say that
there is a rabble of your Hon. House."

The SPEAKER said that the H..use certainly would
not rece;ve a petition which contained lanuage disrespectful
to the House; but the question was, would the House reject
the p..Tition because it contained language disrespectful to
Cie othi r House of Pariiament.

Mr. GUEST—Put it to the Hon. Member for Finsbury,
whether he v. °Ai not withdraw hi; petition.
Mr. WA K LEY—Did not understand the petition to be
diFlespectful to the House.

Mr. GUEST—If it does not call the House a rabble,

t goes very near it.

Mr. WAKLEY—I can assure the Hon. Member that
I will not withdraw the petition.—[Mr. Guast here rose,
and was loudly called to order by Mr. \Vaklev, who was
still on his legs, amidst loud laughter.] He regretted
that the expressions objected to had been inserted ;
but he felt at the same time that it was his duty to
present it, and inde•ed he did not think, that the objec-
tionable expressions were of such a nature as to induce the
House to reject it, seeing that petitions had been presented
to the other House charging Members of the Houw of Corn-
.sons with violating their oaths in the vote which they gave
on the Irish Church question. Under these ircumstances
be hoped that the House would show that they were not
thin-skinned enough to reject a petition because it con-
tained alinsioas to persons who were- not Members of that
House. It ought to be borne in mind that the property
qualifleation had excluded from that House thoce who pro-
perly represented the feelings and opinions of this class of
petitioners. Under such circumstances, he hoped that they
would not exercise anything like hypercriticism with respect
to this petition.
Mr. UUEST said that the petition was not calculated
to serve the object which it had in view ; that it contained
a libel and reflections on the other House, and he would
therefore move that the petition be not received.
Mr. JAMES said that although he agreed with the
Hon. Member for Finsbury, that the class from whom the
petition emanated were not properly represented in that
House, he yet thought the wording of the petition incau-
tious and disrespectful, and he would therefore second the
motion.

Mr. WAKLEY thought both Hon. Gentlemen by far
too captious, for the petition did not spook of a rabble in
the House of Lords, but of a rabble of the Lords.

An HON. Mesteen on the Opposition side of the House,
whose name we could not learn, said that this was a mere
quibble of the Honourable Member. The question
simply was, whether or not this petition was couched
in language fit and becoming for that House to receive.
In his opinion it certainly was not ; and at the same time
he could not avoid expressing his opinion, that the Hon.
Member would ill serve the cause of the petitioners, if he
did not intimate t• them that such language was highly
unbecoming.
Mr. BROTHERTON said, that as the petition was
not likely to serve the object of those who presented it, he
would entreat of his Hon. Friend to withdraw it.
The SPEAKER begged to draw Mr. Wakley's at-
tention to one of the expressions contained in the petition.
The petitioners spoke of a:rabble of Lords, but they would
not say that there was a rabble in the House of Commons.
The exception of this House was as distinct an inference
that they intended to say that there was a rabble
in the other House as could possibly be made.—(Hear.)
The Clerk then read the passage objected to, which has
been already given.
Mr. WAKLEY would ask in what manner petitioners
were to express their sentiments, if that House chose to
attach inuendos to their expressions—which they
disclaimed—as an excuse for rejecting their petitions.
In this case the petitioners explicitly stated that
they did not say there was a rabble in this
House—but that there was a rabble of Lords. And
he said the same thing—there was a rabble of every class of
society. He had already expressed his regret that these
expressions were in the petition, but he did not think they
should be made the ground of not receiving it. If, how-
ever, the motion for excluding it was persevered in, he
should divide the House. The working classes ought to be
more effectually represented in that House. Atpresent they-
were only indirectly represented. Till they were allowed
to exercise the Parliamentary franchise, he should look
with much more calmness upon such expressions than other.
wise he should be disposed to do.
Mr. WYNN said he should be sorry to object to the
reception of any petition ; but there was no grievance
which ought not to be complained of in courteous and
decent terms ; whether the language used in the petition
was disre,pectful to this or to the other House of Parlia-
ment, they were equally bound to reject it. He was sorry
the Hon. Member thought fit to' divide the House ; for
he thought it would be better to withdraw the petition, and

alter the objectionable passage : examples of this kind, if
permitted, would grow worse and worse.—( Hear.)
Mr. A. WHITE said he agreed with the Honourable
Member (Mr. Wynn) that this petition ought to beith-
drawn. He was as vouch a friend to the working classes
es any member of that House, and he had used as strenuous
endeavours to obtain, Household Suffrage ; but he thought
that every petition to that House ought to be worded in
respectful language.—,(Hear hear.) The passage which
had been referred to in this Petition could not but
be pointed at the House of Lords, for it was well known
the House of Peers comprised the greater part of the no-
bility of the United Kieigdom.—(Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER—.(to Mr. WAKLEY).—WiII the Hon.
Member divide ?
Mr. WAKLEY ssaid he was
placed in a very peculiar
situation. He wished to discharge his duty to those per-
sons who had committed their interests to his care,
The object of the petition was to obtain a remission of tits
sentence on the five men, whom the petiti iners believe to
have been unjustly sentenced, at Edinburgh. He took it
that they had that one object in view, and that object only
—that it was not their intention to insult the House, or to
use any expressions offensive to the feelings of its Members.
Considering they had that sole and unadulterated object
in view, he thought it better to withdraw the petition to-
day, and would certainly do so, with the permission of the
House.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He would then write to
the Chairman of the meeting at which the petition
was agreed to, and if the petitioners were still of opinion
that it ought to he presented, he should feel it his duty to
offer it again to the House, and would certainly press the
question to a division. At the same time he should express
his opinion that the petitioners would serve the cause of
the unfortunate persons in whose favour they were petition-
ing more effectually, by excluding every expression which
could be considered offensive to the feeling of the House.
He begged now to withdraw the petition.
The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member had consulted
the interests of the petitioners by so doing, and he hoped
that he would explain to those who had agreed to the peti-
tion, that not the slightest obstacle would be raised to its
reception if worded in a proper manner.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WAKLEY was happy to say that there was now
no obstacle in this House tct the presentation of petitions.
When he first had the honour of a seat, however, a very
great difficulty existed in this respect, and Members had
frequently to wait for five or six weeks together, without
an opportunity being afforded for laying petitions on the
table, in consequence of the discussions which took place
on petitions. The Speaker had thought it right to enforce
a rule for excluding discussion on petitions, and nothing
had been more advantageous to petitioners, who had now
the opportunity on all occasions of laying their sentiments
before the House. The Hon. Member said the next pe-
tition which he had to present was from the Working
'ons' Association of London. The petitioners expressed
their unqualifiedahhorrexice of the act of assassination which
was alleged to have bean committed by the Association of
Cotton Spinners.—(Hear, hear, hear.) They prayed
that the prisoners' Counsel might be heard at the bar
to show cause for the remission of the sentence, and that
the House would appoint a Committee to enquire into the
objects and oreretion of the Operative Cotton-spinners of
Glasgow, and that the House would direct the prisoners
now under sentence to be kept in this country until such
step was taken. In the prayer of this petition he
(Mr. Wakley) most heartily concurred. The next
petition was from the working classes of Glasgow,
signed, on behalf of a meeting which was numerously
attended, by the Chairman. The petitioners stated that
the five prisoners were arraigned before the Court of Jus-
ticiary of Edinburgh, and after an investigation which
lasted eight days, the Jury unanimously found the charges
of the fire-raising and murder not proven, and that by
majority of only one was the minor charge proved. Tesy
prayed the House to take the else of the prisoners into
consideration, and make such commutation of the sentence
as the House might think just.
The petitions were then laid on the table.
The Hoic. MEMBER then gave notice of the course he
intended to pursue upon the subject of the GlaTow Cotton-
spinners. He would be glad if some of her Majesty's Mi-
nisters were present:; and it appeared to him strange that.
out of so numerous a Ministry having teats in that House,
not one of them attended the early part of the sitting, while
day after day Hon. Members were requested by their con-
stituents to put questions to them, which they had no op-
portunity of doing. One of them, at least, might pay the
trifling tax of attending the House daily—it was not treat-
ing that House with proper decorum or respect to absent
themselves. Had the Noble Lord the Secretary of State
for the Home Department been in ha place, as lie harl pro-
mised, he could have informed him when the Lord Advo-.
cate would be in London, so that he might give notice
'of the day on which he would bring the question be-
f‘ re the House. In consequence of the Noble Lord's
absence, he (Mr. Wak:ey) would be under the ne-
cessity of interfering with the regular course of businessat
five o'clock, in order to ask the question, and he could not,
therefore, name the day ; but he would give notice of a mo-
tion for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire
into the constitution and objects of a Society existing in
Scotland, called the Operative Cotton-spinners Association.
—(Hear, hear, hear.) If that motion were negatived, he
would then move that z...n humble address be presented
to her Majesty, praying that the sentence of seven years
transportation, passed on the Glasgow cotton spinners, bs
mitigated to a much less severe punishment. He would
submit these resolutions from an imperative sense of dux-
founded on a conviction that these unfortunate men were
ignorant of the crimes they had been charged with ; and he
would state further, that all the calumnies of the untied
Whig and Tory press, and all the insinuations of the Whig
and Tory aristocracy, would not induce him to shrink from
pressing these resolutions upon the consideration of the
House, and, through it, upon the people of England.
NEGRO EMANCIPATION.

Mr. E. BULLER presented five petitions praying fir
the abolition of Negro Apprenticeship in the West Indies.
Mr. GUEST presented similar petitions from Mer-
thyr Tvdvill, and Dowlail.
An Hon. MEMnER presented a petition from Chester
ag-ainst the suppression te the Bishopric of Sodor an:l Mann.
Mr. DEN N ISTOUN prescnt,2d a petition for leave to
bring in a Bill to establish a railway from Glasgow to
Edinb iirgh

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, JANUARY 26, 1838.