The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-02 00:00:00

73,7301. criminal prosecutions and other law charges
(Scotland).
63,991/. criminal prosecutions and other law charges
(Ireland).
35,5001. for the expenses of the metropolitan police
(Dublin).
258,0001. for prosecutions at assizes and quarter ses-
sions, formerly paid out of the county rates.
On the gross vote of 702,5231. for the expenses of law
and justice,
Mr. HENLEY observed that the expenses relating to
convicts were put in a different form from that in which
they had been accustomed to see them. This might be
more convenient, but it at the same time rendered it diffi-
cult to compare the present with the previous years.
The aggregate expense appeared to him to have in-
creased.
Sir G. GREY—Not as compared with last year.
Mr. HENLEY said he observed, in page 16 of the
estimates a sum of 17,000/. to defray the expense of con-
fining and maintaining in probationary discipline 674
male convicts in county gads in Great Britain under
sentence of transportation, until otherwise disposed of,
and he wished to know whether the expense per head
was greater or less than the expense at Pentonville,
Milbank, or Portland ?
Sir G. GREY said the charge to which the Hon. Mem-
ber had adverted was the result of a recommendation of
the Committee on the Miscellaneous Estimates, who
stated it to be impossible to form an opinion of the ag-
gregete expenses with reference to convicts under tho old
system. Au experienced cflicer had been placed in com-
munication with several of these establishments. The
aggregate expense, no doubt-, appeared to have increased,
but then the Hon. Gentleman would observe that a sum
of no less than 53,0001. had been transferred from the
navy estimates. Those and some other charge had, on
the recommendation of the Committee, been included in
the miscellaneous estimates. With regard to the sum of
17.000/. for the maintenance of 674 male convicts in pro-
bationary discipline, to which, the Hon. Member had ad-
verted, it must be remembered that this stage of punish-
ment was attended with very considerable expense. A
revision of the expense connected with the various esta-
blishments to which the Hon. Member had referred was
in progress, the result of which be hoped would be to
secure greater equality.
Mr. HENLEY said, one other item, which appeared
to him extravagant, was the charge for the maintenance
of criminal lunatics. He found that the expense of
maintaining 111 patients in Bethlem Hospital was set
down at 3,8401., and he really could see no reason
why the charge in that establishment should be so much
beyond Hanwell, or any other well-conducted public
asylum. .

Sir G. GREY said he had bad some communication

with the Governor of Bt thlem Hospital, and a reducti)n
had taken place there this year. It must, however, he
obvious that the expnse must be greater in an establish-
ment for criminal lunatics, where patients were confined
who had committed murder and collar grave crimes, than
it wool I be in ordinary lunatic asylums.
On the vote of 125,0001. for public education in Grett
Britain,

Mr. HENLEY regretted the absence of the Honour-
able Member who had raised a discussion upon that

question ie the previous year, and hoped that his now
not opposing the vote would not be understood as pre-
cluding him from taking any course he thought proper
on a future occasion if the question should be brought
in another form before the House. There was a very
considerable amount of feeling, and among a class whose
opinions were worthy of the attention of that House and
the country, with regard to that vote, and the impres-
sion was that it was not fairly administered by the Go-
vernment.—(Hear, hear.) lie wculd not go at length
into the question then, as he had not expected that the
vote would have come on that night; but he merely
wished to reserve to himself, when the matter was more
fully gone into, the right to take such a course as he
might think fit, because, so far as he had been able to
judge, a considerable portion of the community had great
reason to complain of the mode and manner in which the
grant was administered.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 120,0001. for the commissioners of na-
tional educatioon in Ireland,
Mr. GROGAN wished to call the -attention of the
Committee to the fact that, although:these commissioners
received a very large sum of money per unnum for the
management of the education of a section of the people
of Ireland, they appeared to be very strangely employed.
He found a notice issued by them very lately
stating .that they had prepared two volumes of
poems for the use of the children in these national
schools, the one containing biographies of all the
poets from Chaucer down to the most recent period,
and the other containing selections from their poems.
And these were for the education of the poor children
in Ireland, who were most of them in a starving con-
dition. Ho thought they might be much more usefully
employed in making arrangements for the endowment of
schoolmistresses who could instruct the children, par-
ticularly the females, in useful work, such as em-
broidery, which had been done with the happiest effect
in the north of Ireland, as that species of work found a
very ready sale.
The vote was then agreed to ; as were also the fol-
lowing:-
10,000/. for the School of Design.
2,036/. for the salaries and allowances of certain pro-
fessors of the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge.
4,0001. for the University of London.
7,450/. for the Scottish University.
300/. for the Royal Irish Academy.
3001. for the Royal Hibernian Academy.
6,000/. for the Royal Dublin Society.
3,100/. for the Royal Belfast Academical Institution.
36,288/. for the new buildings of the British Museum.
1,5001. to the trustees of the British Museum for anti-
quities.
1,500/ for the. National Gallery.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE wished to know whether it was
intended to make any addition to the building in
order to provide room for the valuable pictures that had
lately been presented to the country?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER feared
be would hardly be justified in proposing any additional
sum for that purpose in the present circumstances of
the country. He quite agreed with the Hon. Baronet
as to the desirableness of providing proper accommoda-
tion, but, under the present circumstances, the Govern-
ment did not feel itself justified in proposing any addi-
tional expense.
The vote was then agreed to; as were
18,000/. for the geological survey.
5,0001. for scientific works and experiments, and mag-
netic observatories at home and abroad.
2,800/. for completing the pedestal of the column in
Trafalgar-square to the memory of Lord Nelson.
4,049/, for the civil establishment of Bermuda.
2,0001. for the civil establishment of Prince Edward's
Island.
On the vote of 11,578/. for the ecclesiastical establish-
ments of British North America,
Mr. J. B. SMITH had a strong objection to the vote.
He thought those colonies ought to be able to support
their own Church, and he should be glad to know
whether the Government was making any arrangement
for the purpose. He would not go into the question of
the injustice of the vote, but leave that to the Canadians
themselves; but he certainly objected to a vote of that
kind for a religious sect comprising not one fifth of the
pepuletion of Canada.
Mr. HAWES observed that those votes terminated
with the lives of the present incumbents. It was a
special contract made by a previous Secretary of State,
and as the lives died off the vote would be reduced in
amount.
The vote was then agreed to, as were
14,1021. for the Indian department in Canada.
290/. for the civil establishment of the Bahamas.
18,028/. for the governors of the West Indian colonies.
41,150/. for stipendiary justices of the West Indian
colonies and the Mauritius.
13 680/. for the civil establishments on the west coast
of Africa.
16,940/. for the island of St. Helena.
7,3791. for the settlement of West Australia.
1,763/. for the settlement of Port Essington.
On the vote of 20,0001. for the colony of New Zoaland,
Mr. J. B. SMITH saw in the vote a sum of 6001. for
isrt
tiehmtetheythe Bishop of New Z"aland. He should like to know
whether the vote stood upon the same footing as that of
the Canadian vote, and that it would expire with the
bishop?
Mr. HAWES could not say that it stood upon the
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Sir W. JOLLIFFE observed that the establishment
of the chief secretary was put down at 1 2001., and the
salary of the chief justico at 1,000/., while that of the
bishop was only 6001.
Mr. HAWES said the 600/. was not the whole of the
bishop's salary;
or 8001. per annum, the rest being the expenses of his
establishment. the salary of the secretary was only 6001.
Alter It few words from Mr. CARDWELL, the vote
was agreed to.
1,023/, for the civil establishment at Heligoland.
5,7001. for the Falkland Islands.
Mr. COBDEN observed that the number of inha-
bitants in these islands did not exceed 160, and the cost
of governingwhich would feed and lodge them in that country. No
one could believe that these islands were of any value to
them.them , therefore, amounted to 35/. per head,
They had no trade, and no shipping whatever,
and he hoped the. Government would be able to assure
them that the country would shortly be relieved from
that expense.
Mr. HAWES could not say that the vote would be
struck out of the estimates although he hoped it would
be reduced. The Falkland Islands were not of any com-
mercial importance, but they wore of great political im-
portance, in enabling vessels coming round Cape Horn to
put in and refit.
Mr. COBDEN said that the complaint was that ships
did not touch at those islands. He did not know what
were the political considerations that induced them to
expend all this money. The governor, it appeared, was
paid 8001. a year, the magistrate 4001., the clergyman
400/., the surgeon, 400/. The superintendent of cittle
was also paid a handsome salary, although no ships
would stop there to buy the meat.
The votes were then agreed to.
On the vote of 25000/. for the British settlement of
Hong-Kone, ,
Mr. E SMITH said that he found included in this
vote 7504 for the ecclesiastical establishment, which he
protested against,
Mr. HAWES said, as they had thought it expedient
to take possession of Hong-Kong, and had sent a Euro-
pean Population to that colony, he did not think it un-
reasonable to make some provision for their religious
education. This estimate was considerably less than
that of the previous year, and he believed they would
be able to make a considerable further reduotiou in
future years,