The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-16 00:00:00

SUPPLY RETURNS.

Mr. DISRAELI, referring to his observations yester-
day with respect to the delay in printing returns, said
that though ten days had elapsed since a certain return
had been placed on the table, it had not yet been printed.
Now, he would undertake to get it printed and cir-
culated
in twenty-four hours. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the President of the Board of Trade stated
tyheesyterwdearyo
laidthat
on
ne
the
ed
triaci;leau.ttority over returns after
and he found that the blame 'didunt o
He, however, acquitted the Right li
any blame, inasmuch as no one htead made inquiries
lie
Son.
with the printer.
was less liable of
charge of being actuated by sinister motives thantotraet
Right Hon. Gentleman. Now, he wanted these papers
before they went into a Committee of Sup-
ply, and he gave notice that unless they
were in his hands by Monday, he should
move that the printer and the officer of the Board of
Trade responsible for the preparation of the return,
should be called to the bar, to give an explanation of their
conduct.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
The House, at its rising, was ordered to stand ad-
journed until Monday.
OFFICERS' UNIFORMS AND MEDALS.

In reply to Sir DE LACY EVANS,
Mr. FOX MAULE replied that all the officers upon
whom the Order of the Bath had been conferred, were
permitted to retain their names in the Army List, and to
wear their original accoutrements; but the same regula-
tion did not refer to officers who had sold out, and upsin
whom that honour had not been conferred. He was
aware of every regulation with respect to the medals.
Sir DE LACY EVANS expressed himself dissatisfied
with the reply, and intimated that he should again call
the attention of the House to the subject on the motion
for going into Supply.

BETTEIZ GOVIkiNMENT OF TUE AUSTRA-
LIAN COLONIES.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL intimated, in reply to Mr. F.
Scott, that he did not intend to proceed with this Bill
on Monday; he should state when on another day.
MR. SMITH O'BRIEN.

Mr. NAPIER begged to ask the Noble Lord at
the head of the Government whether he would have
any objection to lay on the table of the House a copy
of the document which related to Mr. Smith O'Brien,
Signed by the Under-Secretary of State for Ireland ?
Sir G. GREY said he would have no objection to
lay on the table of the House the letter written in answer
to the Lord-Lieutenant's intimation that mercy would be

extended to the prisoners, on condition of their being
transported for life.
Mr. FRENCH asked when the Right Hon. Baronet the
Secretary of State for the Home Department would lay
the letter on the table of the House.
Sir G. GREY replied on Monday next.
CANADA.

On the order of the day for the adjourned debate,

Dr. NICHOLL rose to address the House, but such
was the noise prevailing below the bar that the Hon.
Member was wholly inaudible for some time. He was
understood to say that he for one declared most un-
feignedly that he felt the greatest possible -difficulty
in coming to a conclusion as to how he should vote on this
question. If be had been forced to give that vote last night
he should, however reluctantly, have given that vote
against the resolution of the Right Hon. Gentleman, not
so much because he approved of what was to be
done by her Majesty's Government, as that he was
taken by surprise and that he believed in a moment
of surprise, that it was the wiser and more prudent
course to take. He was free to confess, however,
that his intention was very much shaken by what
had taken place in the course of the debate. He con-
fessed he did see great inconsistencies in the speech of
the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord said he would not
give his assent to this Bill, or take any steps to give the
sanction of her Majesty's Government, until
he had received the instruction which Lord
Elgin was to address to the Commissioners,
which instruction he was sure would have the
effect of preventing any part of this compensation being
withheld from those to whom it was justly due, and
which would exclude persons who were manifestly
guilty of rebellion. He did not think that the Attorney-
General could show that the Crown or the Governor-
General had any authority or competency to limit or
qualify an Act which had been previously sanctioned by
the Sovereign, as had been done in the case of bringing
those persons who had been transported to the Bermu-
das, and he felt assured for his part, that no such con-
struction could be put on the Act itself to justify such an
act, for it was directly opposed to such a course of pro-
ceeding. He recollected that the commission appointed
in 1845, to inquire into the condition of those who sus-
tained losses in the rebellion were, as a matter of course,
to draw a line of demarcation between those who were
rebels and those who were loyalists, and he was still at a
loss to know whether those who were engaged in that
rebellion and those who had been convicted of high
treason, were to be compensated by this recent Bill of
the Canadian Legislature. If such a Bill were put in
execution, he believed that it would create disgust in the
loyal people of Canada, and that such might endanger
the honour of the Crown, and the safety of those colo-
nies. He should, whatever may be the result, vote that
the address be presented to her Majesty not to approve
of the Bill.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that in compli•
ance with his duty, he had endeavoured, to the best of
his legal power, to answer all the questions that had
been put to him last night, and this day, on the present
subject. He would now say, in reply to the Right Hon.
and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Nicholls), that the Crown
had no power whatever to qualify any Act by its instruc
tion, but that its duty was only either to agree to or ne-
gative any Act of the Colonial Legislature, for the act of
qualifying or limiting any Act of that Legislature would
be an act of usurpation. He should also say, that the
Governor-General had no power whatever to vary any
Act of the Colonial Legislature contrary to the spirit of
that Aet, but if the Commissioners find that there are
some persons who are not proved to be guilty of treason
and rebellion, it is in their power, according to their
oath, to grant them a just and fair compensation for
the losses they had sustained in that rebellion. He
should say, that he was surprised at the Right
Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Nicholls), that he
should have stated that it was an insult to the Crown to
call on it to give compensation. In that case he (Mr.
Nicholls) might have said that all who were suspected of
being rebels in prima facie cases were to be deprived of
the benefit of the doubt, and were to be exempted from
the compensation given to others, because they were not
suspected. Be also said that the Commissioners should
actually know who were the rebels; but, he would ask,
were men to condemn themselves when they were apply-
ing for compensation? There was one class of men who
were exempted from compensation, namely, those who
were convicted and those who were attainted. Then
there was another class, who should be indulged in the
benefit of the doubt, unless they confessed that they
were engaged in the rebellion. Then that party was
held to be guilty of treason morally, though not legiti-
mately. And a third class, against whom no proof or
confession was extant. This party were, in his opinion,
liable to compensation. Such were his legal opinions on
the subject, to the utmost of his humble knowledge.
Mr. DRUMMOND said that this question, disguise
itself as it might, was, when translated into the English
language, an address to the Crown to dismiss Lord El-
gin, to put an end to the present Ministry in Canada,
and to weaken, if not to destroy, the Government in this
country. This question was introduced in a most extra-
ordinary way. One Right Hon. Member made a speech
without a motion, and another a motion without a speech.
--(Laughter.) In the first case he looked upon the
speech as being without any end in view—(Laughter)—
which left the end, as the beginning, all doubt and un-
certainty; and the only justification for such a speech was,
that it alluded to the subject rather as a local question
than as an imperial one, for nothing of an imperial ques-
tion was even alleged; but he thought the logic of it was
this—that rebellion is not a local offence, but an imperial
one, as being opposed to the Sovereign, ergo, rebellion
is an imperial offence. All agreed that Lord Elgin was
an able man—all agreed that he was a man of talents, and
well suited for his present situation. There were over
five hundred gentlemen in that House, and he thought
that all were not as able and as clever as that Noble
Lord.—(Laughter.) Yet he could not help saying
that the two Right Hon. Gentlemen wished to take
authority out of his (Lord Elgin's) hands, and to convert
this House into an administrative, instead of a legisla-
tive, Assembly. Thus, he asserted that those who were
to receive compensation, and those who were not, should
be left to the Canadian Legislature, and not introduced
into this House, as it peculiarly and justly belonged to
that House. He should say that two Gentlemen who
were not two heads of two parties, but two half heads of
two parties, were discussing in a very radical manner,
and he thought that the matter should be solely left to
Lord Elgin.
Mr. V. SMITH said that he was glad that the con-
cerns of the colonies had been discussed in that House so
coolly. He was astonished that the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Herries) bad not brought on his motion
until after the speech of the Right Honourable Member
for Tamworth (Sir Robert Peel). Without entering into
the details of the question, he would simply express his
firm conviction that it extended much beyond the limits
of that debated between the Honourable Gentlemen op-
posite and the Attorney-General. It involved the great
question of a responsible government for the colonies,
which question, in his opinion, was quite at issue upon
the motion of the Honourable Member for Stamford,
They were seeking to carry out the principle of the re-
sponsible government by laying upon the colonists bur-
dens formerly borne by the Imperial Legislature.
When Hon. Gentlemen :armed that they meant no
insult to the majority of the Legislature of Canada, be
would ask the House whether they could possibly devise
a greater insult than to adopt in their resolution the very
words negatived by the vote of the Canadian Assembly?
He considered that a formidable inroad on the doctrine
of responsible government.—(Hear, hear.) The danger
of admitting some few men, who might have been en-
gaged in the rebellion, to some portion of the compen-
sation, was nothing to the hazard they would run in
telling the Parliament :of one of the greatest of their co-
lonies that they would not listen to their resolutions until
they had proved to the letter that they had fulfilled all
their engagements. He would not ask the Honourable
_ _

Member opposite not to persevere :in his motion, but he
would certainly say that to.press the question to a di-
vision at the present moment would be most premature.
They had heard from the Attorney-General, and from
Lord Elgin, their opinions of the legal effict of their
Act of Parliament. Lord Elgin had been chosen to rule
Canada, without the slightest reference to party ques-
tions of any shade, and such a man was the proper one
to govern a colony of such importance. He asked them
not to interfere with what Earl Grey or Lord Elgin had
done, but he asked them, as it affocted their right to the

Canadas, to beware how they rejected an Act which the
deliberate attention of the Parliament of that country had
sent home to them merely because of the construction of
an Act, or of a particular clans,: of it, which, after all,
was probably erroneous. _ _ _

Mr. HUME said it was not often that he had to ex-
press his approbation of colonial government, but he
thought that in this instance the Colonial Office had
taken the proper line of conduct which recent events had
suggested. No one had watched the course of events
in Canada longer or more attentively than he (Mr.
Hume) had, and he could safely say, that Lord Elgin
had not distinguished himself so much in any state of
affairs in this colony, than in those recent proceedings—
vHe
er y
couldmuch n
or
te g ret
concurt e d
in
ny
the t hoi snot e
those disgraceful proceedings—which he believed were
wnthioon toofo
tkh paeNrotbinle ttoemrd.
givens
wasse res toeoau the Commissioners.
ov.f withholdingrly a w rhnins
gd
one;e cis o
ann th untile hGe
osvaewr
ntohre iannsdt r
hu
icst i on na
t have th e
p ow power
of
f thoughtfinally that
passingt ha t
a
Bill.
The party who raised the outcry
in Canada were in office,
and recommended all the
d their inconsistent conduct by
steps for making compensation,
ow
clamouring against. showed
Feb-
ruary, and at last there vvasa vote measure was carried in
by debentures, for the purpeseor of 10,0001. to be raised
If they would allow the people O meetinge these losses.
to conduct
their own government, and develop then.r
that country for their benefit and our own, believedierrcs of
that the Canadas would become as advantageous tcolony to this country, as hitherto it had been otherwise.
Lord Elgin, he thought, had acted in a manner which
showed himself fitted for the duty he went out to perform.
He found his opponents in power, and gave them an op-
portunity of carrying on the Government. He found
they were unequal to the task, and then he deter-
mined on dissolving the Parliament, and allowing
the people to choose those representatives by
whom they thought they ought to be go-
verned. That was done, and that was, at the bottom,
the cause of the rebellion. It was true those men were
implicated in the rebellion; but was it not a singular
state of things to see her Majesty's troops engaged one
day in one way in this matter, and another in another
way? He, however, hoped that he should never see her
Majesty's troops so engaged again, and that the day was
not far distant when he would see the Canadians in pos-
session of a free constitution, and when administered by
such hands as Lord Elgin's he had no fears that any
attack would be made on the institutions of the country,
or that there would be much necessity at all for troops
in Canada.— (Hear, hear.) He hoped, in conclusion,
that her Majesty's Ministers would receive the support
of the House in the course which they were in this in-
stance so firmly and so much to their credit pursuing.
Mr. NEWDEGATE regretted that this debate was
prolonged, for he felt that it bad already been most fully