The Sun.
London, England, 1825-02-04 00:00:00

-,7lsad been derived from the Catholic Association. lie would
.ndeed have wished that the current of wise Administration had
mot taken its course amid the mingled waters of bitterness which
t awed from the Catholic Association—

qui nunc
Ore, Arethusa, tug Siculis confuntlitur undis.
But it seemed that the Catholic Association was the parent of
the peace of Ireland. And whence came the charm ? It was
a singular peace certainly which came frem the pit of Acheron
—a peace which came from a head which was disordered, be-
cause it was not nourished by the body.—(Hear, hear !)--That
charm and talismen had produced friendship and hatred.—
" Good God Almighty," said the ilightHon. Gentleman, " is
it not sufficient to stamp that Association with its true character
when we call to mind the opinions which it hag delivered, and
wnich were deliberated upon only to be re-affirmed. Is this
Catholicism ? lam sure it is not Christiani.y. I trust it is
not the peculiar creed of any peculiar class of Christians ; for if
such an infatuated error existed, I should look in vain for a
cause. In the name of the Catholic population, therefore, I
protest against their being identified with such an Associa-
tion—l protest against any measure which establishes E-
rnie.; to the Law and to the Constitution by the proceed-
ings of a Body which acts against the Cethulic people of
Ireland, or which throws an impedielent oa tine discus-
s' on of the question. Does the Catholic think that nieilace
and intimidation is the way to carry the measure—that he
.ought to put arms into the hands on his meads—to threaten his
:toes; and that he ought to allow the impression of the proceed-
ings of the Catholic Association to rcisu.in on the Eaglisli
meld ? It is to this exult that the mischief has been carried;
and it is our duty to free the Catholics of the incubus which
rt.:iv rides them, and to rid them of those unsightly objects
which shock an impartial mind." With respect to the difficul-
ties which surrounded the question, the Right Hon. Gentleman
an,: he was not prepared to legislate upon them. The lion.
and Learned Gentleman had used harsher expressions than
is have been used on the occasion, and particularly with re-
nestl to the introduction of the letter s in the Rnval Speech ; but
at prtaent he would only say, that the law which was to be in-
tonluced on the senject would be impartial in its operation. So
utueh, then, for die Catholic Association, and for the line of
separanoil which he wished to establish between that Body and
the Ciaitolie question. The Hon. Gentleman had taken occasion
to allude to bun (Mr. Canning) in a style which could not be
tiiniundet stood ; and he felt himself placed in a difficult situation
between the two alternatives—eof allowing these allusions to pass
unheeded, or of putting to the test what had been said personal
to himself. The Honourable Gentleman asked—Why had he
not been able to carry a measure which would benefit the Ca-
? and since no measure had been carried, it was plainly
hinted that he should pursue the only other course, meaning
rseignation of office, for promoting the objects of the Catholic
Association. While he stated the arguments of the Honour-
able Gentleman, he begged leave to dissent front his pre-
mises. Did the Honourable Gentleman see no difference even
on his own chewing of the case? It was said that the Mini-
ster did not venture on the recognition of the South American
States when. the benches were in favour of the measure, and
when he was backed by the country ; but lie would put a ques-
tion in return—What ought a Minister to do when lie had only
the benches without the country ?—( Hear ! and laughter.)
Supposewhe data of the Hon. Gentleman to be all true, h would
be difficult to find a man of ordinary sense who would resign the
tight ofjudging on any question which affected his office or his
life to those who had some collateral interest in the decision.—
( Much laug.t 'T. )—Whatever the effect might be, he would deny
one assertion which the lion. Gentleman had made. He had
taken it for granted that the difference of opinion in the Cabinet on
the Catholic question prevailed with respect to South America.
The line of distinction which was attempted to be drawn was
not a straight but a serpent line.—(l-lear!)—lt was certainly
true there was a difference of opinion on the subject of Catholic
Emancipation ; and that originated with many of its members,
whose honour, connections, situations, feelings, and pledges, in-
duct d them to view the question in various lights. But as to that
question,he was persuaded it had got intosuch a state a hich would
prevent it from being effected without completely breaking up
the present Administration. And if even this should come to
pass, his opinion was, that if another were formed from the op-
posite side of the House, the lion. Gentleman might he satisfied
with ousting him, but he could not sueceed in carryhig I;is
point. —(Hear ! and laughter.)—lie (Mr. Canning) theetrnit
that all discussion at present might he avoided by considering
the extent to which the sentiments in the Address pledged the
House. His Majesty stated that Associations existed in Ire-
lard which had adopted proceedings irreconcilable with the
spirit of the Constitution ; and that they tended to excite
alarm—to exasperate animosities—and to retard the course
of national improvement. These, said, the Right Hon-
ourable Gentleman, were facts, and were not disputed.—
Parliament was only requested to apply a remedy to these
evils ; and the answer to the Speech expressed their readiness
to do so. Unless the House were prepared to say that the Ca-
tholic Association authority was to supersede all Government,
to engross all allegiance, to exercise all power to levy revenue,
and to hold back the population—unless they were prepared to
ley that'the power existed, that it was entitled to sit beside Go-
vernment, or to tower above it—then they could not be prepared
to say that they refused the means which had been proposed to
them, but would suggest those which were most advantageous
to the country. The Address could not be couched in other lan-
oeaer. unless it affirmed the proposition in the Speech ; if it did,
lie must necessarily consent to leave the Association in the full
pi en itude of its power. (Hear!) lie would now turn to the other
pine °ldle King's Speech, a more pleasing task, in which he
w.n..11 be less niggardly in his praise than the Hon. Gentleman;
eettlch echoed the announcement of the success of liberty and of
commercial regulations to the mew States of South America.—
The Hon. Gentleman was not n unfrequent speaker nor an
unconchie one, having in the anise of his Parliamentary
-life proposed or supported every innovation on the Constiten
:eel, anti therefore when the Government carried a particular
tee...1.311re, they were supposed to borrow the plan of it from
tete Honourable Gentleman.--(A laugh.)—if therefore the
(tevernment were struggling through a measure as if
t:etv were bound up in a northern winter, and at length
neezeadetli in breaking their bondage and arrived in a
inece of safety, up starts the lion. Gentleman, and says, n• Oh,
l was there before you."—(A laugh.)—The House might
kecellect that in the reign of Queen Anne there lived an
individual who was known by the name of the Critic Dennis,
woe took an odd fancy in his till age that he wrote all the good
Dns. A tragedy was acted on one occasion at the theatre when
ennis was present ; and as the thunder employed in the piece
V;l3 rolling away in great majesty, he started up, exclaiming
"that is my thunder."—(Loud laughter.)—Now no step taken
by the Government ever made a noise or a stir in the country,
without the Hon. Gentleman claiming the credit of the than-
tier.—(Much laughter.)—All the commercial advantagei which
the country has reaped by the repeal of the duties on silk or
cso.ton. or the reduction of the taxes, and in fact all popular
uteaeures whatever, are selected by the Hon. Gentleman as his
p,A.laliar handy work. But happily there is one measure which
the Hon. Gentleman has thrown overboard, and has given over
to-his Hon- and Learned Friend (Sir James Mackintosh); and
lee (Mr. Canning) should like to know the degree to which tine
ionensted to him ? (A laugh.) Still, although the lion. Gent.
hatsollo wed though the thing is right in itself that it was wrong
in point of time. He (Mr. Canning) differed from him in Into,
motif he piqued himself on any part of the thing it was that
which respected the time of doing it. (Hear !) If question
jtael been, whether these States should or should not be admitted
into the rank of nations, the only points for consideration were
etne time and the mode of doing so. nlut there were two ways
itir attaining the same object: the first was the headlong and
renkless course, which would have compassed the object im-
mediately, but which might have stirYed up unpleasant con-
sequences ; the other was the cautiseis and the prudent way,
Which was done on principle and gave no objections to
any party. The States of Colombia, Buenos Ayres, and Mexico
have been recognised, and he had no doubt of satisfying the
• house, that with respect to them and other modes besides that
which has been followed would have been liable to great objec-
tions. In the first place, as to the question of time, and the in-
.. teeniel condition of the States—it was true that in Buenos Ayres
• • ..teeny years had passed since a Spanish soldier hall been seen on
„See :toil; and it was equally true that the recognition of its in-
. depentlence might have been made by any other Power after the
,conteet between the colony anti the mother country had ceased.
But the Hon. Gentleman perhaps knows that up to a late period
ant,. state of Buenos Ayres, or that which geographically or in
,common parlance went by thatname, consisted of thirteen or four-
leen Federate States, which had not yet been consolidated by
,any federate union. He asked the Honourable Gentleman if
it Would not have been absurd to have entered into a treaty with
o. Power which could not answer for the constituent parts which
the Government represented ? It was necessary to know what
ought to be considered as the place, and the town and the terri-
tory of Buenos Ayres, which was said to be the head of a dis-
*triet which went by that name. If the consolidation existed,
-then the treaty would be signed. Colombia was of smaller
'extent. In 1822 the last Spanish soldier was sent out of the
country ; but the fort of Porto Cabello was held for the King of
:.Spain two years ere they were admitted into a separate existence.
Jut after the expulsion of the Spaniards, Colombia risked her
,ealetence by dispatching an armed force, at the head of which
was her Chief Magistrate, into Peru, to engage in the war carry-
ing on in that province; and if events had turned out disas-
Arously for them, they would have become again a prey to the
attempts of Spain. If they had been at once admitted into the
.rank of independent nations, • this acknowledgment might
'ave Promulgated what was not the fact. In Mexico, the
case was still clearer. It is not nine months ago since an
Adventurer from this country, who once wielded the sceptre
n
f that state, strove to re-assume it; and if he had succeeded
' destroying the strength which had been organised, such dis-
tp.lliS3twn would have
prevented it being recognised by us.