The Sun.
London, England, 1831-12-16 00:00:00

earnest desire to avoid exciting party-feeling or party I
heat, the proposition would have been received in i
the same spirit on the other side as it was given
forth upon that, and would not have drawn forth
sueh an exhibition of party heat as they had that night
witnessed. The Noble Earl (Carnarron) had said, that
he was disposed to support Government in any proposition
to put down agitation ; and from what he knew of the
Noble Earl, he could not doubt his sincerity ; but from
the mode of his support that night, he doubted very much
whether his aid would be much advantage. The subject
it was proposed to submit to the Committee was one of
great difficulty. This was acknowledged upon all hands.
Therefore was it the more fit to be submitted to a Com-
mittee—(Hear, hear)—and as to the shifting the res
ponsibility, he knew not how this could be, since, except-
ing the risk of character and reputation, he knew not any
risk the Minister ran beyond any other Member of Par-
liament ; and he should be curious to know how the Bill
of Attainder or Act of Impeachment could be drawn which
should affect a Member for submitting a subject to the
consideration of their Lordships. He denied that the
submitting of any measure to a Committee in the first in-
stance diminished the responsibility to which a Minister
was liable. Were the Government of the day less respon-
sible because they first instituted a Committee, before in-
quiry into the question concerning the Bank charter ?
Were Government less responsible for pursuing a similar
course with regard to the currency ? As to the tithes, he
could only say that there was a systematic opposition to
the payment of tithes in Ireland. He did not believe
it proceeded front a principle of hostility to the
Church ; but certainly the practical operation of it had
been, in ram), places, to reduce clergymen who were
once in a state of affluence to something approaching
destitution. The object of the Committee was to in-
quire into the means of meeting the existing evils ; and it
was consequently not so general in its object as the
Noble Baron supposed, and was likely to con-
clude its labours within no long period of time. With re-
spect to the present state of Ireland, no man could more
deeply—no man could more sincerely lament that state
than he did. To him it certainly had been a most severe
and bitter disappointment that the great and healing mea-
sure adopted by Parliament two years ago, and which had
received his most cordial support, had not the beneficial
effects which he anticipated from it. In what way those
beneficial effects had been prevented, he would not
then stop to consider. He deeply lamented, that for the
former religious differences in Ireland had been substituted
the present dreadful harvest of political animosity and dis-
sension ; but he bad at least the consolation of knowing,
that the germs of that civil animosity and dissension had
not proceeded from his Majesty's Government.—(Hear,
hear.) To prevent the effects of the existing evils in Ire-
land had been, and was, the most earnest desire of his
colleagues and himself. A Noble Earl had charged his
Majesty's Government with not having evinced sufficient
♦igour in meeting the state of public affairs in Ireland.
With respect to the Irish Government, knowing, as he did,
the high character of the excellent person at the head of
that Government, he gave him the fullest credit for not
being deficient in that vigour necessary to check sedition,
and put down whatever appeared to be fraught with dan-
ger to the public tranquillity in Ireland. If say new cir-
cumstances should occur in that country to require still
r greater exertions, he (Lord Grey) was certain, that
• while that Noble Lord continued in his present situation,
he would not be found wanting in any efforts which the
case might demand. But he was not at all ashamed to say,
that he would much rather restore the tranquillity of Ire-

land by measures of conciliation than by measures of
vigour.—(Hear, hear.) To the attainment of such an
object the views of his Majesty's Government had been
directed ; hut, he was sorry to say, not with the success
which could have been wished for. It had always, how-
ever, been one of the articles of his political creed, that the
best mode of dealing with sedition was, in the first in-
stance, to take away its causes, and, if any real grievance
existed, to show a sincere disposition to remove them.—
(Ilear, hear.) That disposition his Majesty's Govern-
ment had shown, when they declared their determination
not to apply to Parliament fur new powers, while they
thought that those powers already in their hands were
sufficient to meet the exigencies of the case. The Noble
Earl had alluded in a tone of reproach to a particular Act
of Parliament respecting Ireland, the renewal of which he
(Lord Grey) had intimated his intention of proposing; but
which intention bad not been carried into effect. He was
not unwilling frankly to confess, that as the Act in ques-
tion had expired during the period of the dissolution of
Parliament, he had thought it expedient to wait some time
to see whether its renewal might not be dispensed with.
But if it should appear to be necessary, he undoubtedly
would not hesitate to propose, not merely the renewal of
that Act, but the adoption even of much stronger mea-
enres.—(ilear. hear.) The Noble Earl's declaration, that
neither of the great political parties in Ireland was attached
to his Majesty's Government, was hut too true. He would
not introduce the names of individuals, but on the character
of the proceedings of the body called The Political Union'
in Ireland, there could be but one opinion. Undoubtedly
a counteraction had, as the Noble Earl had said, been
produced. But the resolutions of the counteracting party
were as liable to objection, as open to condemnation, as
those against which they were directed. Between the two
parties it bad been, and it would be, the endeavour of
Government to steer, and their object would be to take
such measures as might seem calculated to benefit both.
That they were not then at the head of either party might
be urged against them as a matter of reproach. But in
the situation in which they found themselves placed, it
was their determination to maintain the just authority of
Government in Ireland, and to protect the lives and pro-
perties of all his Majesty's peaceable subjects; and if they
were supported, as he did trust they would be supported,
by the sound part of the community, he saw no reason to
fear that, adopting such measures as the one proposed that
evening for the removal of any really existing grievances,
they would be enabled eventually to bring Ireland into that
state of tranquillity and order " which," in the words of
his Majesty's speech at the opening of the session, " alone
seemed wanting to raise a country blessed by Providence
with so many natural advantages, to a state of the greatest
prosperity."—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was impossible to
contemplate a country so fertile, so productive, so admi-
rably placed, so abounding with harbours and other con-
veniences for commerce, and inhabited by so brave, so
intelligent, and so enterprising a people, without the con-
viction that all that was necessary to the prosperity of such
a country was the establishment of quiet and order.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) Under these impressions, it was the
determination of his Majesty's Government to act towards
Ireland with moderation ; but at the same time with firm-
ness—to abstain from all measures calculated to provoke
further irritation rather than to appease that which al-
ready existed ; but at the same time to exert all their
powers with which the Constitution invested the executive
Government, if unfortunately there should appear no other
means of securing the public tranquillity and safety.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) It did not appear to him to be ne-
cessarynymore
his
an
Atihaajtesstuyb,ajecGt.ovAernNmoebnlet
Ea r Earl
in Ireland, who was most active in his hostility to them,
h
charged a
by the offer of an official situation of considerable impor-
tance. Knowing the extent of that individual's ability
and influence, he (Lord Grey) should have been glad if
he could have been detached from the courses in which he
had been engaged, and have been attached to the support
of his Majesty's Government. If he had pursued a pro-
per course, if he had shown himself a well-disposed and
peaceable subject, his abilities, anti his professional reputa-
tion, would undoubtedly have entitled him to entertain
considerable expectations. But, if any offer had been
made to the individual in question of any such situation,
and in any such manner, as might enable him to say he
had such situation in his power, and bad rejected it, he
(Lord Grey) was ignorant of it. No such offer had been
made by him ; none such could have been sanctioned by
him ; nor could he believe that any other person had taken
any step even approaching to such an offer. He (Lord
Grey) certainly lamented the situation in which that indi-
vidual had placed himself, and which cut off all hope of
his attaching himself to the support of Government—an
event which would have been productive of great benefit
to the Government, to the country, and, above all, to the
individual himself.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He trusted the
Committee to be that night appointed would enter fully
into the inquiry in which they would be engaged, with a
view to the establishment of principles which, while on
the one hand they would secure the just rights and pro-
perty of the Church of Ireland, would, on the other, re-
move all those causes of complaint which should appear to
be well founded.—(Hear, bear, hear.)
After a few observations from Lord Viscount MEL-
BOURNE, the motion was agreed to, and a Select Com_
mittee accordingly appointed.
The LORD CHANCELLOR brought in a Bill to
amend the contempt in Ecclesiastical Courts' Act. —Read
a first, and ordered to be read a second time.
Adjourned at a Quarter before Eight o'clock.