The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-09 00:00:00

THIRD READINGS.

The following Bills were read a third time and
pass€d :
The Birm;ngham Borough Exemption from County
Rates (No. 2) B:II.
Ho,pital lor-Consumption Bill.
Truro Turnpike Roads, Penryn and Redworth Turn-
pike Road (Consolidation of Trusts, Alterations of Tolls,
Formation of New Roads) Bill.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORTS.

The following reports were considered and agreed to:—
Binbrooke Sc. Gabriel and Binbrooke St. Mary Inclo-
sure (Amendment and Extension of Acts, Alteration of
Awards, settling Titles to Lands, &c., and defining
Parish Boundaries) Bill.
Cong.leton Inclosure Act Amendment Bill.
Sheffield and Tinsley Road (Extension of the Tinsley
and D measter Turnpike Road to Sheffield) Bill.
STOCKTON AND DARLINGTON RAILWAY.
On the motion for the third reading of the Stockton
and Darlington (Consolidatien of Acts Increase of Ca-
pital and Purchase of the Middlesborough Dock) Bill,
Mr. HASTIE moved the insertion of a clause relative
to the toll to be taken on the Shelbon Tunnel.
Lord HARRY VANE said the clause bad been unani-
mously rejcted by the Commitke.

Mr:B.-DENIS-ON said under these circumstances it
was a wsste of time to discuss the matter.

Mr. STUART suppomd the clause.
Captain HARRIS said the reason the Committee did
not insert the clause was, because they felt they had not
power to do so.
After some further discussion the amendment was
withdrawn.

The MI was then read a third time and passed.
LORDS' AMENDMENTS.

The Lords' amPnc:ments to the Kirkaldy Harbour,
Docks, Ferries, and Petty Customs Bill were considered
and agreed to.

PETITIONS.

Mr. BASS presented a petition from Derby praying
for the extension of county courts.
Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petition from Aberys-
twith in favour of the Clergy Relief Bill,
Mr. PLUMPTRE presented petitions complaining of
agricultural distn; ss.
Mr. 0. DUNCO ABE presented petitions from York-
shire to the nine effect.
Mr. B. OSBORNE presented a petition from Surrey,
praying the H use to acknowledge the de facto Govern-
num of 11,,)me.
Mr. COWAN presented a petition from Edinburgh
complaining of ;he present system of keeping roads and
brides in Scotland.
Mr. TRELASVNY presented a petition from Mr.
Charles H. Green c.JmpLining that he had been nearly
ruined by church-rates.
Mr. W YLI) presented a petition from 2,000 persons
employed in collieries, praying that some measure might
be passed to obtain the better ventilation of mines.
Mr. BA NKES presented a petition from the county of
Dorset, agrerd to at a large punlic meeting, complaining
of the present distress of the agricultural interest, and
praying for the re-imposition of a protective duty upon
the produce of foreign countries.
SUCCESSION TO PitOPER CY IN INDIA.

Mr. HUNIE gave notice that on the 16th he would call
the attention of the Elocis to certain proceedings iu
India, by which the law of succession to property there
had be(n superseded.
LUNNTIC ASYLUMS (SCOTLAND) BILL.

Mr. CU NINIING BRUCE kayo notice, when this Bill
came on, that he would move the exclusion of the county
of E:gin from it.
NATIONAL EDUCATION.
Mr. MILES moved for a return of all correspondence
which had tsken place between the Committee of
Council of Education and the Committee of the Na-
tional Society upon the subject of the management
clauses, subsequent to the last publication of the minutes:
copies of the management clauses, as amended; and of
all conditions which are imposed, either upon Roman
Catholic schools, or schools of Dissenting bodies, previ-
ously to the advance of any sum of money towards the
bui!ding of the aforesaid schools by the Committee of
the Privy Council of Education.—Agreed to.
PALACE COURT.
_ _ _

Mr. H. HERBERT said that the Hon. Gentleman
who had just sat down had affirmed that the question
which was now before the House had never been fairly
met.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He feared that if it
bad not been fairly met the circumstance was more
owing to the Honourable Gentleman's absence from the
House than from any other cause.—(Hear, hear.) If
the Hon. Gentleman had been in his place as often as
others, both on his own bide of the House and on that
which was opposed to it, he (-alr. Herbert)
believed that he would have found no rea-
sonable cause of complaint of inattention to
Irish interests. Ile had observed, indeed, that when-
ever Irish subjects were before the House that the Hon.
Member bad never been in his place—(Hear, hear)—
and he was ashamed to say that whenever Irish ques-
tions were before the House Irish Members were among
the last to take a practical interest in them.
Mr. GRATTAN—The question simply was, how the
evils in Ireland had been produced.—(Hear, hear.) It
was not a matter of two, three, or four thousand years, but
how the evils were to be remedied. The whole of the
evils were the natural fruit of British legislation. He
did not object to British connexion, but British
legislation was an evil which appeared irremedi•
able. He saw a wretched party of Irish people
the other day in Ireland, starving and in rags,
who had been sent back to Ireland from
Birmingham and Manchester, whither they had
wandered in search of food and employment.
That was the charity of the Ilonourabie
Member for Manchester, that was the bright hu-
manity of that Hon.`Member.—(A. laugh.) They took
away the absentee rents, and that was the cause of
much of the distress and want that abounded. It was
aiwnllhaennid. IrishHonthseensee,t plthhoodorpt.heheow was House plecould not live on the rate
pohsysgetrn antdhatotvtewr,usigd beain
the ruin of Ireland. Mr. O'Connell said if they
passed that Bill they might
hgOse
in it
toutnhde
Ireland, and write upon every house
words " poor-house." That had actually been
verified, It was Irish poverty that was support-
ing Irish population. The House passed that law,
and then they followed it up by driving
away all the honourable and high-spirited men from the
country, and now they had nothing :left but famine
and fever. He (Mr. Grattan) had fled from a
host of beggars forty-eight hours ago, and he
said for God's sake let him get away, for the very air
was infected with famine and fever. It was not
onlet Irishthem landlords that
the
itby cocubladrginbge rtehmeedieevil d;
root
back h
of th e evil,te
absentees. and send
T
theirhey vs
.40,000ui
dn
lt m
soldiers
hto
drive
longer recruit their army and navy with Irishmen.
He had seen little children, the rising generati
of Ireland, perishing and fading away. He saw the other
day men from Roscommon, Limerick, and Tipperary;
he declared to God he never saw such images of misery.
in his life, and when he sat down to his dinner he slid
" take it away and give it to the poor." They
were destroying the best portion of the human mind.
Mr. O'Brien was wrong; he rebelled too soon; had he
waited, it must have anti would have exploded, and a
real insurrection must have deluged the country. In Ire-
land th,;re were land landlords who did not get 2 lbs.
of meat a week. He implored them to do something to
prevent the horrible Stale of destitution that now ex-
isted in Ireland.
Mr. LAWLESS, while he considered that the discus-
sion which had taken place would do much good, as it
would 'mike known the amount of misery which pre-
vailed in Ireland, did not think that the system of evic-
tions now so prevalent in Ireland had been caused by
the introduction of the poor-law into that country, as
had been stated, for they did not commence with the
introduction of that measure, but were practised before
it was heard of. He rose, however, more particularly
to ask a question of the Hon. Baronet the Secretary for
Ireland, io reference to the circulars which hid been

Lord D. STUAR,P gave notice of his intention to
ask for leave to introduce a Bill to bring the jurisdic
tion of the Westminster Palace Court under the opera-
tion of the County Courts Act.
ACCIDEN IS IN COAL MINES.
Mr. FLUME said an explosion had taken place at a
coal mine on the sth of this month, by which 24 persons
had been killed; and as such accidents were constantly
taking place, he wished to know whether the Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir (x. Grey) bad taken any measures to ascer-
tain the cause of it ?
S:r G. GREY referred the Hon. Gentleman to the
report which had been laid on the table of the House.
Mr. FIUME trusted that some day would be fixed by
the Government for the consideration of this question;
and he gave notice that he should, on Monday, bring
this question before the House, and trusted that the
Government would fix a day for the settlement of the
question which had so long agitated the public mind.
Sir G. GREY said that it was impossible at preset t for
the Government to take su .h a subject into consideration,
but IA opp ,rtunity would be lost in bringing the matter
before the House.

AUSTRALIAN BILL.
Mr. HAWES, in reply to a question from Mr.
Disraeli, said that though the Government had been '
much interrupted, he hoped to be able on Monday to
introduce the improved Rill.—(H•.ar, hear.)
TOONIEVERA. UNION.
Mr. H. DRUNIMOND said before the Pouse went
into the orders of the day, he would throw himself on its
indulgence and its justice while he troubled it with a re•
futation of the personal attack which was made on the
Rev. Massey Dawson, a friend of his, the other evening,
by the Hon. Member for Limerick. In so doing
be by no means admitted the justice or the pro-
priety of any Member of that House making a charge
against an individual in reference to his private pro-
perty, without in the first instance giving him notice of
his intention so to do. The Hon. Member then read a
letter he had received from the Rev. Massey Dawson,
to the effect that the persons ejected from his property
happened to be two middle-men, named Murphy
and Sawley, the former of whom owed him
six years' rent at one time, and had only
since paid a very small portion of his
arrears, whilst Sawley owed him five and a half years'
rent, and not content with owing him rent, he har-
boured all the bad characters in the vicinity, men who
lived on roaming the country by day and plundering by
night.

.kr. JOHN O'CONNELL said the Hon. Member for
Tipperary was not in the House at that moment, but
he would venture to answer for him to the House.—
(ilear.) The facts were not at all denied, of turning
out 500 or 600 poor people to perish, and the levelling
of their houses was nut denied; and he (Mr. John
O'Connell) did think it an aggravation to the people to
be called a nest of thieves and murderers, without the
least attempt to prove it. A great number of par-
ties got unavamped receipts for rents which they
had paid from the agent of that gentleman, Mr.
B. E. Wilson ; and parties taking unstamped
receipts could be tamed out in a moment.
There was no doubt in the present distressed state of Ire-
land a greet number of poor people had been about the
country to support life.—(Cries of "Order, order," in
the midst of ali;eh the Hon. Member resumed his seat)
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said as his Hon. Friend the
other evening
,had referred to the conduct of tho
.board
of,-Kuirdians of the Igenagh Union, hA (Sir William
Sotkervllt) had received a report from Captain Bowen,
the iPepecter, Who stated that the necessary notices were
served 0:s the relieving, officer', in accordance with the
Ad 'or Vintoriti4n the case of the parties who had been
t;7letord• •
Nire- SCROPF.,..Conneeted with this Eubject
("VI); obst "Pictir,byder," gait, chair.")
, 1

when originally framed proposed. Unless this clause 1 Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that as there was no question
which he had introduced stood, he would say non-con- I before the House. he would move that the House ad-
tent to the third reading. ! journ, which would make a question.—(Laughter.)
Lord BROUGaIAM reminded their Lordships that 'ru KILRUSH UNION.
this was the last stage of the Bill. As his Noble and Mr. P. SCROPE said ne wished toesk of the Govern-
Learned Friend had proposed to introduce a very im- ment, whether they had read the report of Captain Kens
portant clause, he hoped he would not press the third nedy, and whether they thought it incumbent on
reading on the present occasion, but would give them them to take any proceedings to put a stop to the
time to consider it. evictions going on in that part of the country?
Lord CAMPBELL was understood to consent to post- The report of the inspector stated that during the last
pone the third reading of the Bill until Monday. twelve months fifteen thousand persons had been driven
Lord STANLEY said he understood that the second from their homes by this system. of eviction, and the
reading of the Incumbered Estates (Ireland) Bill was homes of twelve thousand more were in the process of
fixed for Monday next. Now, that was a Bill which being razed to the ground.—(Her.)
demanded their most serious consideration, both as re- Mr. J. O'CONNELL corroborated the facts stated by
spects its principle and details. Although he thought the Hon. Member, but intimated that he had under-
that the third reading of this Bill should be postponed, stated them. A cowshed in which a woman afflicted
inasmuch as it required much more consideration than it with fever had taken shelter had been destoyed, and a
heed as yet received, he hoped it would not be fixed for " wigwam" which a poor man and his family bad erected
a day when their attention would be occupied by other was set fire to and pulled down. It really, in such a
important business. He was of opinion that this mea- state of things, behoved the House and the Government
sure should be permissive, and not compulsory; and he to take some step to prevent the continuance of such a
thought it excedingly desirable that the Government horrible state of things.—(Hear, hear )
should take further time to ascertain whether it was Sir G. GREY was not surprised that what had
possible to adopt the permissive principle, and to amend occurred in the Kilrush Union had attracted the
the Bill in the way suggested. He wished to know attention of the Honourable Gentleman and the House,
whether it was intended to take the Leasehold Tenure since it was distinguished from what had taken
Bill and the Incumbered Estates Bitl on Monday, be- place elsewhere. He must, however, remind him
cause he should protest against both being discussed at that last session an Act was passed for preventing
the same sitting, both of them being mersures which re- evictions, but that those who, taking their stand
quired grave consideration and ample discussion, upon legal grounds, were about to evict, that
Lord CAMPBELL said it was his intention to take in every case notice should be given to the
the second reading of the Incumbered Estates Bill on guardians, and that means should be taken to provide
Monday, and, if time permitted, he hoped, considering temporary shelter for those who were evicted. It ex-
the present circumstances of Ireland, the Noble Lord preesly declared that no houses should be pulled down
would not object to their going on with the second Bill. whilst the parties were in them, which provision, even
The Marquis of NORTHAMPTON presented a peti- in Kilrush, he did not gather had been violated. If it
tion from some agricultural society, praying the Govern- had it was in contravention of the law, and the parties
ment to extend its assistance to those societies, to enable were amenable to punishment. Indeed the only rernscly
them to exhibit agricultural implements and improve- for such a lamentable state of things was in the hands of
menu.
those who were capable and willing to afford employ-
Lord STANHOPE proposed to psstpone the presen- ment to the poor, thus enabling them to maintain
tation of the petitions of which he had given notice till themselves and to pay their rent. He was prepared
Monday next. to say if the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Scrope)
Lord CAMPBELL said the Bills to which he had thought proper to call for a detailed account of the
referred, being measures of importance, would take pre- number of evictions, the names of the evictors, and the
cede nee. extent of the families of those evicted, that no objection
Lord STANHOPE then postponed his petitions till would be offered by the Government. He was not pre-
Tharsday next. pared to say that the Government might not call for
Their Lordships their adjourned. further powers if they found them necessary; but he
---swei---- reminded the House that the subject was surrounded
HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 8, with difficulties.
The SPEAHER, took the Chair at Four o'clock.
NEW MEMBER, Sir R. PEEL said he was quite aware of the difficulty
that stood in the way of applying a remedy to the gnu-
Mr. Deciesore took the oaths and his seat for Lime- ing evils complained of, but it was quite possible that
rick, in the room of Mr. William Smith O'Brien, con- the indignation of the House of Commons might have
victed of high treason. some effect in checking such outrages—(Hear)—for he
LONDON AND NORTH-WESTERN RAILWAY. must say that he never heard of any country, civilized
Mr. BROTHERTON moved that the report from the or barbarous, presenting materials fbr such a statement
Committee on the Lancashire and Yorkshire and London as that made by Mr. Kennedy. He asked, therefore,
and North-Western Railway Companies (Transfer of if the statement made by that gKith man was cur-
Interest in the Preston and VVyre Railway Harbour and re wssofficial an doc.ument,. presented bi the
Dock, and regulating Management of the Undertaking) Executivect.lt Government by the order of the Crown
(re-committed) Bill, be considered upon Monday next, fur the consideration of Parliament, for the guidance
provided amended prints be delivered to the doorkeepers of their proceedings ; and that gentleman, too, was
three clear days previously, and the amended breviate an officer in her Majesty's service and a man, he
be laid upon the table one clear day previously, believed, of unquestionable veracity.—(tiear, hear.)
Agreed to. He stated this fact—that in one of the unions at a period
of famine, during one year, 15,000 persona had been
driven from their homes; and he says, after this had been
dune in one year, it would be hardly credited that during
the last month 12,000 additional persons had been
driven from their homes. He then proceeds to detail
incidental cases of the persons so evicted. The
inspector stated three facts which appeared to be
rather the creation of a heated imagination than a de-
tail of events occurring in the present sge. The inspector
said he went to a ruined house and found it in possession
of a father, a mother and two children, who were about
to be evicted ; the father was a corpse ; the mother
was dying of dysentery, and the two children were lying
asleep upon the corpse of the father. In the second
case he found a family located in a hut which
had been surrounded by muck to drive them
thence by the stench; while in the third case
he saw a hut set fire to, though it was still occupied by
miserable beings whose ailments prevented their escap-
ing. With these facts before them, he could not
retrain from expressing his conviction that the time
had arrived when some remedy ought to be
applied to the evil. He knew not whether it
was possible to stop the system by law, but he felt that
a strong feeling of indignation on the part of the House
might have some effect in mitigating the sufferings of
these poor wretches.—(Cheers.) '
Mr. REYNOLDS remarked that by the returns it
appeared that 160,000 kings had been evicted during
the last three years.
Colonel DUNNE admitted the atrocities that had been
committed, but attributed them all to the working of the
Irish poor-law.
Mr. AUGUTUS STAFFORD said it was unjust
to look only at one side of the question; there
were landlords in the districts which had been referred
to with whom it was not a question how they were to
obtain the luxuries, comforts, or even decencies of life,
but how they were to support their existence, for they
were wholly deprived of animal food, and were reduced to
two or three meals of Indian corn a day. The
Government had compelled the Irish landlords, and
he thought wisely, to pay the poor-rates for every
tenant holding under 41., and, since the potato
crops had failed, the tenants were utterly unable
to pay any rent, and the consequence was that
the landlords found themselves not merely without
an estate, but actually in a worse condition, for they
were liable to the heavy rates which the tenants could
not pay. It that fact was not an excuse for the conduct
of the Irish landlords, he thought it might be considered
as some extenuation of it. Two yt ars ago he had warned
the House not to place any temptation in the way
of the landlords, which it was impossible eir human na-
ture to bear, but to make it the interest of the landlord to
improve his estate rather than to eject his tenantry. r its
advice, however, had been entirely disregarded, and
the consequence was that 15,000 tenants had been evicted.
He therefere thought that the House should not
content itself with blaming the Irish landlords, but ought
to share a portion of the blame and responsibility which
had been cast upon them. The alt' ration of the area of
taxation, which was at the root of the evil, the Govern-
ment would eventually be obliged to resort to, but if that
measure was driven elf, it might psrhaps be unavailing.
Mr. ROCHE declined giving any opinion upon the
hobby of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Stafford), but be
regretted that Hon. Gentleman had come forward to
express their sympathy with the people who had been
evicted, because all the sympathy in the world
weuitt not prevent landlords taking proceedings
to protect themseves and their families from destitution.
lie wished especially to call the attention of her M -
jesty's Government to the system of coluniz ition re-
commended by the Emigration Commissioners.—(Hear.)
It was not the retaining of the present poor-law that
was likely to give any relief to the immediate necessity
nor any permanent removal of the distress which now so
extensively prevailed in Ireland.—(Herr, hear.) lie
trusted, tnere!Cre, that her Majesty's Government would
not neglect those recommendations in the statements of
the Commissioners to which he had directed their ar
tention.