The Sun.
London, England, 1822-03-13 00:00:00

10,02'M00
3;282;000'

13,283,000

And to his next iteni, on the Excise
Should be added . -
; 4 Which gave a itetallof • • 'y 24,711,000
Where details were so erronetrai;-thellouse would fieee'bieW den-
' fierou'e it evkiuldbe to adoptthe'propoeithins founded on them.
Thp flononrabie. Gentlemen vontentled that thereieee a great
increase in, the rate of per centage. .paid on 7-the collections and
:ee-linageinent of the revenue. • This "he denia ;Instead of, a
excess, there was:hut a very, small one, ..nOt ainouriting to,
.more than tbe.tweifthe part of a pound; The rate-per cent: on
the eolleetion in 1812. wee 51..95. fld. In 1820 it had increased
•tei M. 1 Ise. 4d. This, it would be found came exactly to the pro-
position which he had. stated. The increase which was reinark-
ed would be explained from the circumstances of the two periods.
1n.1822, we were at war, and the revenue was in some mea-
sure.protectedby.thatcircurnstance. Since the return of peace,
a laige and. expensiye. eetabliehment had been fourid neces-
sary to._save the revenue froM being injured by smuggling,
and he hail only to . express his surprise and 'satisfaction
at the measures which had been adopted having proeid so ef-
fectual. to keep ep.the reyeenie. .This could only be imputed to
the prevaileng spirit of vigilance-and integrity which pervaded
all who were employed in the preventive service. He begged to
assure; the Hoe., Gentlemaitthat every exertion had been made.
to prodrice thepapere fee which he had. moved at the several
depertments, and explained the circumstances which had made
it impossible to comply :with the call as yet, and which would
prevent it from being answered for some weeks to come. It
Wei' because the papers called for from the Customs were so
voluminous, and that reference, must, be made to every out-pert
in the kingdotnethat they could not yet be given. The parties,
engaged at the several offices wanted not the reproach which the
Honourable Officer was disposed to bestow; and he intreated
him when he Moved for-papers so voluminous to make allow-.
ances for . the labour Which limit, be performed before they
could be given. The Hon. Officer had understood the fees of
the Solicitor to the Excise to amount to 40,0001. per annum,
to'80;0001.,' or to 20,0001. The account he held in his hand
shewed their amount in one year, to be 9,0001., and. this sum
was to be divided between two individuals, who had thus in-
comes of 4,5001. each. Now when he considered that it was
the duty of the' Officer who had been mentioned to watch. over
a revenue of 29;000,0001. he could not think the sum he re-
ceived more than he had 'a right to expect as a remuneration
for the important•duties which he had to perforM. The ex-
, pence of the Preventive Force, including every thing, was
520,0001. but taking Ireland into the calculetion, it might,
come.up to the sum named by the Hon. Gentleman. The ques-
tion was not what was the amount, but whether the amount was
necessary ? He would contend, that there was .nothineeoon-
.. eel • „
nothing but evbae evarielellYen-Otegary, efeeect t7;e.
the revenueOf the country. The resolutions Were errodeVirs
erNuous;
ands
full of errors, and there was also 41 mistake to the amount of
eight millions and a half.—(No, ! from Mr. Httine.)He
did not feel shaken by the' No, no" of the Hon. Member for
Aberdeen. There was an omission in the first item £3;262,000
In the second of' e - - e - '5,235,000
Making a total of - - - . 48,497,000
The Hon. Officer having been thus mistaken' it was impossi-
ble for the Howe to adopt his ReselutiOns. lie referred to a
large volume on the table, and remarked, that nine such were
produced in a year .in which.- the Honourable Officer might
find the most Minute accounts of the salaries and emoluments
of the officers employed in the revenue. For the estimates
called for, he could not conceive . how estimates of ex-
pences which must depend on the ..commerce of the country
and other matters that were contingent and uncertain could
be made up immediately. Mitny of the accounts which Gen-
tlemen,moved for might be found in Returns which were an-
nually made. It would be well if Gentlemen before they mov-
ed for so many papers to suit their own views-(he did not mean-
improper views), would-- use' a little application to see if
they could not find what they' wantedin what had already been
produced. Were this done, a great eipence. would be saved to
the country, arid no inconvenience would be sustained. Some
remarks had been made on a Commissioner lately appointed.
He would say the. Excise Btiard hadhot gained a more valua-.
ble addition for many years than it had received in the person
of the Hon. Officer who had been alluded tie; and he could not
but think ha .little.hard that his
.for Mer honourable life should
be urged as making against `his fitnee& for the situation which
he now filled with dietiegirished-ability, and great advantage to
the public. He concluded by the previous question.
Mr. HUME competed ilieTptatements :which his, Gallant
Friend had made Withehe.: Reteans; • -and contended- that the
Hon. Officer had been correct. : e • -•
Mr. LUSHINGTON: peinted.Out where. the error had oc-
curred.
- •
Mr. HUME went on teecom.pare the. per contage paid on
collections with whit this Elie al. :Friend ,had stated, still main-
taining that he hml beencorrect, • -• '7 •
Mr. LUSH Dra.V4. leinsAedi :there was a nota bene to
explain the manner in which.)the.calculation had been made on
both the permanent and temporary revenues. • -
Mr. HUME then went through a series of statements, to
shew that his Gallant FricAd had quoted. froß.,•tht:iiettkrns
correCtly: the 'Hon.."SicietivythouglWthat he 01e.
,Htunite
was. wrong; lie-Sibuldteeiteit7 the clerk 41:read *Me.
Mr. LUSH INGTON again mentioned the note which ex-
plained what he had before rmaentined.
The Book we:4 was called on by
Col. Davies teemed .fisearottri. :WC it appeared the' hetes, whic,h
had,boen mentionediwas net irg. that beide.-4A litigh,),., .
Mr. HUMS' ferearked they' had .I;Cele. ;referred. ell.; Afor4.
Secretary to a note, where no ndidivitiete*rounele.., eee'
Mr. .14.1811IN.GTQN Piqui ;anoth or boekort:ttee
table the note-as -the,lo‘ which had been
adopted. , . .
Mr. fIUME said his Gallant .riend had quoted correctly,
arid the illmotttable.Seeritafjllihest oven that 'he (Me. Liishe
Mgeoni had r) eleia *game msdea, little p.• He did not eon;
ceive tiat, tie 9bjection. made. to . his Honourable Friend's
inotiOn 'was valid:. If it- wee, was eqaally so against all
estimates tbaeeei'tirelaid•fieforethe 1-1-seuse Tlie :Honourable
Member ,then..,.con,ten,ded,,,thjt estinaii:es of the expenditure:
• tot the :collection of the revenue ought to have, been .at all.
times submitted to the House in detail. He then contrasted the
'expenses of-- the tolleetion;Ofabee,Ctistoins Scotland;' in' the
.years 1805 and 1821, dial niacle,it appear • that there:was
crease of 400;000l. ' He allio alluded. toile. increased salaries
now. allowed la. 41r-hills Offiees, over these 01'1792.. The Coin;
missiorters the ;Ward of. Taxes, who- at that period were
Paid 'it the rate 0f..6001. ausl'4o.Ol..a-year
.now reeeiyed 1;6001.
and 1;0001.:•• He' would LSI the Chancelfor Of :.the Exchequer
.11019 o: lie 'ineantAliaC--the reduction of TO 'per- Cent. • shoUld
bring these, increased allo.v.ames flown: to it& standard bf MP
Ile took the proposition to be a mere mockery. The sameyate
91 advances had taken jilace in the salaries of the Ceminis-
sioners and gffi eerie ne the Custeliis,! in 'the &idle, the. Tax,
'SW-4e and Other .(flees:.Ha theuglit the.countenancing
these things, to' be ileWneighf extravagance and althoughethe
Ilonourable ;night-find= faint 'With' the harshness of
his language, .he:coubi •ouly edit itiatra:vagance, -for no other
-ward would express his meaning..., He.-tho.ught the-eXpenditure
if
:for the Customs was top
'would great,eanoiight, to he reduced. He
was sute the; country'Ml' be satisfied with what the
Chancellor of ethee.Exchequer had • dime.' 'Me Conceived it to
be but ,a ?Wry ,scale of reductions- compeeedewilh what the
country
demanded'. It was stated that the charge of collecting
the Revenue was to be 600,-0001: :IM,:there'eai-a.sum of 80;0001,
for the revenue service under the chierge of victualling, put into
the Navy 'Estinatese He alsocondeeeped the appotuttnents-t0

19,476,000
5,235,000

the Revenue Service, and complained of the allowances made.
At the same timele was ready. to admit that-the service. was
arduoui and haiirdons.- With regard to Su_perannuations,
how could the House :consent to admit the principle when
they saw the extent to which it had been carried? He held in
his hand a volume consistingof Above• thirty pages of Super-
annuations. The lion. Member then read over some of the
Superannuationgranted to individual'swhe held situations in
the Colonies. He alluded to an Officer, at Lucia, named John
Bridgemin; who had received an allowance of 5001. after six
years service, at ;the rate of. 20001. year. He. conceived this.
to be quite an abuse, and he thought the House ought to
pit down the
.systeM. 'He :adverted td the cases of
the Collectors at Barbadoes, Nassau, and Sandy Point, all
of,whorn.he consulered:to have been allowed too much for their
services. There was a Mr. Sampson, who, after 15 years re-
ceiving a salary Of 5001.; retired upon an allowance.of 3501.
He could not see why he- was entitled.to any such proportion.
In short; the system of Superannuation was like the system of
Increased salaries, and. ought not to be sanctioned by the House.
In "What he had said he had only done his Gallant Friend justice
by supporting, as far as he could, the Resolutions which he had
submitted to the House.

Mr. LUSHINGTON said, that it would be an unworthy
act in him to endeavour to mislead the House for the sake of
any trium '' over the calculations 'of the Hon. Officer. He
would the. re explain the contradictions he had given and
the more particularly as the Hon. Officer was now. backed by
the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. He then entered into the
calcUlations cif The Hon. Member (Colonel Davies), and observ-
ed, that he had compared. the-experw_s of collection upon the
ordinary revenue of the Customs alone, which would not give
the per- tentage of 71. 17s. 7d., If he added the 3,000,0001. for
the Extraordinary_ he would then find it came out right. He
had made the same mistakes in the other Calculatioh, and:the
fact was as he (Mr. Lushiogton). fie& stated, that the gross-ex-
rence of Collectirig the revenue in 1812 was 51. 9s. Bd., and- in
AB2°, 511. 11P, !i: .

Sir I: COFFIN said, _that R., the Hon. Member for. Aber.
deen to. a: 'Mallon of his 'the Collector at Sandy Point, he wished to let, the House,-incivr how the case stood,
by detailing the circumstances Under which his superannuation
had been granted, After a residence at St. Jilitt's of twenty_
two years, at -the age of sixty-fie returned to this country
nearly blind aid quite .unable; to perform .the- duties of hip
office. He (Sir Isaac Coffin) took him down to the Treasury
-himself, and: said le-was' air unfortiiiiate Gentleman, nearly
blind, who held a situation of 2,5001. a year, and ; was ready-
to give it up 'and let the'' Government allow him what they
. pleased. The Treasury were kind enough to grant him a super-
'animation of 5001. ; and he hoped that the Hon. :Member would
serve his 'c'ountry'long enough and faithfully enough.to deserve
such a remuneration as well. At the time when these_ Wm-
plaints were being made the Gentleman might be dead, for be
had'to be couched for
,this dreadful disease, which prevented
his seeing ten yardsitefare him. The Hon. Member came down
there with his charges and his statements, and he (Sir I. C.) sat
listening to him clay after day, and night after night ; and after
all he 'declared to God he conceived him to be nothing ,more
than a forestaller...--(A laugh.)

Sir C. LON 4 said that the Hon. Member for Aberdeen com-
plained that the reduction of Conitnissidners of Customs had
not been recommended. They did not recommend it, bee-aus,
they were convinced that those offices could not. be reduced
without injury to the public. Eniployed as they were at pre-
sent, they would
.be very useful and necessary to the public.
With regard to,the appointment which had hem, atiuded to by
the Hon: Officer, he could say thai there was not likely to be
a more faithful and beneficial public servant. Mr. Hewitt
was also a most va4nible person in riblic affairs of a particu-
lar nature. He h.ad been employed by the Right Hon. Chan-
cellor of the l'4cchequer in drawing Biils for the Consolidated
Fund ; a service which nciOther person could perforrh so Well.
When the Hon.- Member for Aberdeen mentioned the increase
upon the collection of the revenue of 400,0001. he left out of view
the abolition of fees which had since taken place, and • also that
there *ere two or three millions more of revenue to be collected.
When, therefore, the-Hon. Member Stated the round numbers,
without mentioning these circumstances, he was deceiving the
_House into false conclusions. The 'Hon. Baronet then defended
the appointments to the Preventive SerVite, and chewed' that
the 80,0001. for the victualling of that -department, which ap-
peared in the Navy Estimates, were included in the general
estimate of 600,0001. With respect to the motion, he considered
that it 'could be productive 7of no good whatever. He consi-
dered the statements of the other side to have been completely
refuted.

Colonel DAVIES re-plied.' He admitted he ought to have
mentioned that he took the per tentage upon the ordinary re-
venue. He had, however, no objection to :give up the second
and third resolutions, because it was the principle that he con-
tended for. 1 -

The House then divided..
For the previous -
Against,d'--gaint the resolutions-
When the Gallery was opened, - ,

Mr. MT. COURTENAY was, addressing the House for leave
to bring in a Bill, to alter and amend the Stage Coach Horse
Act. —Leave given.

MUTINY BILL.

' Upon the Order of the Day being read for the House going
intO a Committee upon the Mutiny Bill being read,
Mt% P. BENNETT rose to entreat. his Hon. Frlend, the
Member for Aberdeen (Mr. Hume), who bad given notice of
a ,motion in the Committee, not to .enter into the subject at
that hour, and with such an attendance of the House. He did
think that the subject ought to hare created more interest
among those who actually combated abuse. But it appear-
ed that it was 'money matters alone upon which those Gen.
tlemth were sore, and that the Constitittion might be .in-
fringed upon withont,exciting attention. He was speaking
of his side of the House, and he must say, that there seemed
to be a feeling of contempt for the subject of the motion, of
which due notice had heen'giverr. He trusted' his honourable
Friend would, however, ppstponeitfor the I resent, and bring
it forward in the shape of a suhstantire-motion.,- when he could
command the day anti hour of discussing it. :By bringing it
on before dinner, he could, perhaps, procure the attention
of gentlemen who:seented to leave the subject to 'its fate after
dinner.

Mr.'BRIGHT looked at the matter of the Hon. Member's
complaint with deep regret, because lie thought the,sobject to
be one of the first interest. Helhooght nothing had been
so wholesome to the Constitution, its other ages; as t hat prac-
lice of examining inthits principles; now tecominended by the
Hon. Member for Aberdeen, He had always been brought 'up
in dread Of standing armies, and the longer he lived, the more
he was convinced ortiteir evil effect upon the Constitution.--
He thought that when the prerogative e.arne in discussion, it
MS somewhat assumed by:Hus. Members opposite. When it
came Wore the Muse upona regular uestion. he gshould
declare in his place his opinion that the Crpwn did, not
,pos-
sess theyrerogative of dismissing art officer wit limit' trial." He
looked at the Army with suspicion, 1190! the Navy with ad-
ritirationand he tholighi the. Militia, the citnstitntioyal.forcc
of the kingdom, wal fully-adequate for all the purposes. for
which tilre standing army was required. He trusted- the Hon.
Member for Aberdeen would bring on his motion either 'on
that evening or on Sort4C future occasion.

. ,
. .
• Mr.- HOBHOUSE thouklit the evening was .top.far ad-
vanced to admit a disbitision'esii-great*Constitiitional cities
, tion, and he therefore:trusted:lite Hon. Frien &Would. make a
specific 'motion on the subject. certainly thought the
Mutiny Aet;Vid ilot e -e'the Crown the power in question..
Mr. HUME said, thatt.a.Uh-ntifili hez' hniPlinnivir a question
of 'as, great importance as the. present:
,ritet by. as. eMpty-
benclies as the pregent, .-tes.44,pot peAsioagainit the!ad-
eicerot his Friends, but would bang the subj,v,ct forward on,
the Rowing: up4fithe xr.toai.•
' -the SPM,KER then lefaxite::-Chairi mrur the House being in
a Committee, • ,
•Mr; HUME'wislied to know whether any alteration was
intended:as to those part's-of the Bill Which were' now obto-
lete ? If not, he should .propose smne ame.ndiueets.. ' •
Lord PALMERSTON said,
,t he only alteration he proposed
was one respecting the parish settletherit of soldiers. He pro
posed a clause, empowering
.Magistrates to summon soldiers
to make depositions as to their rights of sett letnent.
Sir ISAAC COFFIN inquired whether_ any alteration, was
Wended as. to the mode of promulgating the sentence's of
Courts Martial. - . •

. .
Lord'PALMERSTON said no alteration ~63 intended. The
subject had; however; been Tully considered.
Mr. BRIGHT thought the Articles of War, and all the Re-
gulations of the Army, should be emlxlied,irt the Mutiny Act.
fie 'certainty shn'uld, in the course,of neat Session, move that-
'they -be laid before-the House for that purpose. ' •
Lord PALMERSTON .said the Articles of War- were re-
neWed every year. After the passing the present- Bill,
!r-there would' 'be. 'no objectiOn to their being laid before the
Hone. .-.• ;" ! • • - •
After a few. words from Mr. WETHERELL, . •
Mr. BRIGHT explained. He did not think the precedent
•alliniutto by the Noble tord was Of any weight. -If it was a
bail precedent it should be disregarded bj, the' House.
Lord PALMERSTON said,-the right of the-Crown to make
articles of war was long prior tti she passing of any Mutiny Act.
Mr. BRIGHT thotight that'svas no reason against the House
examining' those articles when' they were giving the 6'oo/11 a
Mutiny Bill.
The Chairman was abant to read the several clauses, when
' Lord vALmEasToN observed, that as there were 160
clauses in the Bill, it would be a saving of time if any clause
to which there was an objection were singled out at once. , •
Mr. H.UNIE, refeiring to Clause 29. respecting Courts Mar-
t.l.l, wished to add' some words, declaring that no punishment

should be inflicted but what should he in ccnformity with a,
Aent-Crke 'to Ite:passedlo pit-ism:nee of the Act, • •
Lord ,PALM EUSTON declared, he could not see the object
of the proposed addition. Be thought it was totally unne-
cessary. The substance of it was, that the Act should not
be violated, • • •
Mr. HUME. said, there . were certain punishments sanc-
tioned by the Articles of War, but not by the present Act.
He conceived that the proposed additidn was perfectly rea-
sonable.'
Mr. WETHERELL thought that if the object of the pro-
posed addition was to raise the question of the prerogative, it
should be done in' a ' fair and open manner. For him Self he
was clearly of. opinion, that the King could .declare certain
acts to be military crimes,. which were not crimes at the time
of the passing of the Mutiny. Act.
Mr. BRIGHT and Sir I. COFFIN spoke a few words,which
were perfectly inaudible. •
Col. WOOD thought the proposed addition was a round-
about way of bringing on the-questiOn which the HonOurable
Member had said he should decline Winging on to-night.
He should be happy to meet the question upon constitutional
.grounds. He considered thatthe.prerogative alluded to was
'the best Safety against the interference of the Army with the
Constitution. -
After a few words in explanation from Mr. Home,
Mr. COUItTENAY said, WAS customary when any
amendment was proposed, for the Mover of it to state the
grounds Olson which he brought it forward. Utile intention
of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen was to dispute the prero.
gative, it would be'mote Manly Of hith to bril; it forward
specifically.
.1:14i (Mr. C.) wished to-know whether the Hon.
Member intended the word "punishment" in this instance
to refer to dismissal ?
Mr. WILLIAMS admitted the prerogative ; but he thought
the admission was no reason- for-the House not -.being vyry
jealous of its exercise. If the sithieet shmild not be _taken up
by some Hon. Member., 'moto competent than :himself, he_
should Move for leave to bring in a Bill to exclude Otlicers
in the Army, front sitting in that }_tonne.---,(A
Members might laugh tint laughter would not deter; him
from performing what he.C6nceis'edsto be•his dirty. •
Colonel WOOD said. he was, as jealous as the- Hon.-Mern4
her could-be-of a staneipygarmY,,: hitt it Would be recollected
that an army becarneiddredatigelknii than ever by being ise-
lutrated from the-Cititiio 7 It-`rosy such an army which had en-
tered that House antifir riled itsrilMembett out of doors',- He
'trusted the Hon. Member, on consideration.-would not think
it necessary to•propose a measure for excluding Officers of the
,army from the House. :There Was; he thought, no more dan-•
ger to be apprehended from them than 'from' the Worthy
Members of the naval and legal professions.
Mr. WILLIAMS explained. There was no analogy for the
pirposciof the present aroment between the army and the
law, for the Cfo4ll had not the-power of depriving a Barrister
of his rank.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that when.the question
of the prerogative should he fairly brought forward, he would
meet it. But with rerpect.to the; proposed amendment, he
thought he could satisfy the House. and even the Hon. Meni
her for Aberdeen himself, that the aMendment could not be
sustained. The King could-remit, but could not exceed, the
punishment decreed by the sentence of a court-martial; -and
the present arnendment, by confining all punishments to the
very letter of the sentence,'would take away the power of re-
mission; and the King would therefore not have the power of
even commuting the sentence of death to a smaller punish-
ment.

Colonel DAVIES said there were many instances in which
officers who had, been acquitted by courts martial had been
afterwards dismissed. He instanced the case of the officers
of the 85th, who having brought forward charges against
their commanding officer, and failed to prove them, were
diszni:sed and the commanding officer was himself dismissed
afterwards, although the court-martial had acquitted him.
Lord PALMERSTON said, the dismissal of the officers who
had prosecuted groundless charges was no argument on the
present question.
Colonel DAVIES said, his argument was, that the com-
manding officer bad himself been dismissed, after haring been
acquitted by the court martial. •
Lord PALMERSTON said, it was then evident that the
present Amendment raised the question of th'e prerogative.
Mr. BUMF, disclaimed any wish to raise that question at
present. The Amendment referred to the punishments
ordered by minor Courts Martial. If, howe‘er, it was thought
that:the terms of the Amendment touched the tender point,
the prerogative, he was not willing .to press it. He had no
wish to do things in a roundabout manner, Ile was for talf-
ing the bull by the horns.—(A laugh.)—He was not convinced
by the argument of the Solicitor General, but he had no wish
at present to agitate any point which would involve the ques-
tion of the prerogative. The Hon. and Gallant _Member
(Col. Wood) Would remember that if an army, not under the
controul of the Kipg,.had interfered with the MeMbers of that
lieople, the same might
LW tYone by one who commanded the army. Its officers were
perfectly ,tlependant on the Crown, and, if he might use the
phrase, were even the slaves of the Crown,,in consequence of
this power of dismissal,
Lord 'PALMERSTON said, the principle of the Mutiny
Act allowed of dismissal even atter an acquittal by a Court
Martial.
Mr. W. SMIFFI disapproved of the introduction of so im-
portant a subject upon an incidental question.
Sir MILES NIGHTINGALE, repelled the observation of
the Hon. Member fur Abereeen, respecting the situation of
Officers of the Army. They were not dependent upon the
CrEdvn. He (Sir Miles Nightingale,) WaS as independent of I
the Crown as the Hon. Member hin.}self, or any man in the
House.

Mr. HUMS said, that, in his opinion, the Officers of the
Army were dependent upon the Crown, for the reasons be
had given. . . .
Sir ISAAC COFFIN said, that when the Hon. Member for
Weymouth (Mr. Williams) brought in his till to exclude Of-
ficers of the Army from the House, he (Sir I. Coffin) hoped it
would include Officers of the... Navy, that they might all go out
together.-fa laugh.)Colonel TRENCH said-he also felt hiniseif Called uprin to
repel the insinuations -of the Hon. Member foie Aberdeen, and
he threw them back to the foul source from whence they
sprung. I-le was surprised that the Hon. Member had dared
to throw out such-an aspersion on the Army.
Sir F. BURDETT could not. but express his surprise at the
extraordinary. tone of the Hon. and Gallant Officer, in an-
iwer to the observation-of his Hort. Friend the Member for
Aberdeen. He begged to protest against the personal appeal
to character and conduct which .had of late become so frequent
in that House, and which he believed was cuotrary to its or-
der. He was sure his Hon. Friend'hfid no intention to offer
offence to any individual, arid be (Sir F.) for one Would say
that lie agreed is the proprietyof his Hon. Friend's language.
The argument urged by that language was perfectly .consti-
tutional; and he would rather die in his seat. than
.give up
the right to offer that argument. • The opinion that Officers
in A•he A rmy were dependant upon-the Crown, was to be found
in,the writings ofiktlio best authors, ancient and modern, It
w aithe opinion, among of hers, of Blackstone, who complained
:of this Very Att of Parliament; and who had said that soldiers
werp.sla.ea.aniongfreeweir. Every .artfut means had been
resorted to for the purpose of separating the soldiery from the
people; a practice directly contrary to the law, as laid down
.by the same learned commentator. Hume, the historian, was
one of those who thought 3 standing. Army would be tire death
of the.litkfties Of-EnglanlA Ereir children; who were edu-
cated by cli'arity,,were -no formed into artificial Mamellikes,.
add regulated by'beat'of otriird:' 'lt 'Walidle, lie thought, to
talk ciLth..e., Army bking_lendereil harmless,: •because it -Was'
Under the commit of the. King.. Suppose we were to have a
bad: ing; who Wasltet,PiOtekt fire-people against him with a--
standing army at his command ?. He
.would. not trust the li-
berties of the country witti'an-y-King: He'pteferred relying
on the feelings of the soldiers themselves, and therefore it
iris t hat he Wished to guard them against the exercise of ar-
bitrary power:77a power which might deprive a man.of the
commission he had paid for; and that too without any trial,
or even accusation. In the armies of the most despotic eoun-,
tries no such a power existed. He was willing to give every
credit to the Officers of the Army for their conduct, but their
safety.did not depend upon their oivn, virtue. It depended
upon that of a Minister, and it was that dependence which he
was-desirous of seeing.removol.. _ _

Lord PALMERSTON said the speech of the Honourable
Barone'. referred, almost entirely to the question preroga-
tive. With respect to the first part of that speech, noticing
the observations ofhis Honourable and Gallant Friend (Col.
Trench), he (Lord Palmerston] would. it to tbs House,
whet bet,'nOt Withitanding the latitude of debate, it was not
a little too much to expect that one. side: of the House should
be allowed the habit of making observations of a personally
offensive nature. The word 4. Slave;" as applied :by the
Honourable Member, for
_Aberdeen, was undoubtedly, very
ty offensive, though ro doubt it 'was not intended to he so by
the Honourable Member. It conveyed the Most degrading
idea which could possibly be imaglned. The Hon. Baronet
had uoted from Blackstone, as he was often in.the habit.
of doing; but as be had qputed from only a page or two,
it might have saved the time-of the House. had-the book been
put into the bands of the Clerk with a desire for him to read
it. He (Lord P.) admitted that &standing army was liable
to objection, but lie thoUght it would- not be denied that
greater danger was to be apprehended from the want of any
army at all. The observation of the Hoa. Baronet respect-
ing .4 artificial Mantelukes," referred, he supposed, to the
children of the Military Asylum ;..,but. bad the Hon. Baronet
given hiniself the trouble to inquire into the subject, he
would have found that the children were' allowed 'to chotise
their own professions, and that the majority of them

turtityoheasen civil pursititsert‘Hea? hear.!:)-=With re-
gard_.to the militaryy rules of„otber Govemeneests, he was not
aware-exactly of those retpecting-the Mist-I.llth army; but in
that of Prussia, be apprehended the King bad often exercised
the power in question.
Mr. BE•NNETT, adverting to-the speech of the Hon. and
Gallant Member (Colonel Treneb,)'obserie'd,, that there was
nothing in the remark,sof 'ilieWinber for
Aberdeen, at which the tion..ptlicer cats.l4lllo.lf,y-feet.ktrend-
ecf. 'II; might as Well feet offerided':fit, the=qiintation made
frOM Blackitone, by the Hon. Member --fOr"lrestmlnster.—
The expression had been used by bis Horf:kiignd' in conse-
quence of Iris having just read the pastage',ln-;olhekstone,
which he had actually in • hit hand at the time be was speak-
.
nig.- 'The remark had-not beenthade insratingiroftittinting-
ly. It was made to strew that—the Armitlhoored under a
disadvantage which
_might tO be-removed by 371rlianaent. Cer-
tainly the language of the Gitllint 015601* efitirely- new;
for when !resat on bli-(51r.-Beisnett'sy.'sirl -of tire:plause--
(Cries' of Order.)--; • • ..'—
The CHAIRMAN here rematked, th*Alrese petrpnal al-
lusions could not be permitted:'- •• - •
Mr. BENNETT-said, the etriridanitililif,- with-equal pro-
priety, have called the Gallant Officer, to isider.when Ise was
making the observations upon his Hon'itiiend: • '
lite CHAIRMAN-again interPosid,' Ord. said that the
words- of any Hon'. Member which.were•iUrssiderell objec-
tionable must be,noticed at the time they were spoken.
Mr. CREEVEY said, Ire had heard the HOD. and Gallant
Officer snake rise of the weird "dared," a 'word', the use of
which was always considered highly nnparliamentary.;
Mr. W. SMITH was about to addres's the House, ehen
The CHAIRMAN said, her-could not healloWed to speak
unless he was about to speak to the point' of order.
• Mr. BENNETT said that be was entitled to speak to the
point of order. His objection was not to tire word" dared,"
but to-the-words." ford sourer," which lik'd been Used by the
Hon. and Gallant Member, and whieh"lie (Mr.- Bennett)
,
truistedt he Him.. and Gallant Member iroutd take-an -oppor-
tunity cf explaining.
'After a few words from gr. BENNETT andlhe CHAIRMAN
on the'po.int of order,
- • Ceiteidel TRENCH- Said, That the--esipieSsirininsid"by the
Ma. Member for Aberdeen had certainly:appeared:Us-him to
be coarse..and: fouLmouthed. --He (the‘Cnlsmel),•liad an-
swer edit in a.moment of indignation, and-mete was not often
in the habit of 'addressing tire House, he feared he bad inad-
vertently gone-beyond the rules of -debate.. He begged to
apologize tothe:House for having done.-so, but he should nut
carry his apology-any further.. . , , . . -
The clause was then agreed to, as were the othetalansts,
after a few words.from -Mr. HUME and Lord PALMERWTON.
The House having resumed, the Report•avas ordered to be
received to morrow.. , .

MARINE MUTINY BILL.
The House then went into a Committee on the Marine
Mutiny Bill, which was read paragraph bi.paragraph, and
the Report ordered to beleceived to-morrow. -
The. Report on the Aliens anti Denizens . was-hronght
op, and•the Amendthents having been reaci.and agreed to, it
was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow
MISUNDERSTANDING.
Mr. G. BENNET rose to call-for an explanation of, certain
words which had been used in the course of -the deb.atei and
which might leave, on the Minds of the Honourable Memberf
concerned, impressions of. anunpleasant•nature. His Hun.
Friend (Mr. Hume) had, in the warmth of debate, used lan-
guage which called
.up the Honourable Member _for Cam-
bridge; and 'tliongh the latter'Honeurable Gentleman:bad
merely made-an apology to the House, without - reference to
the personal feelings of his Honourable Friend, be (Mr.
Bennet) was anxious to call the. attention alike: House to
the necessity of some explanation. .. • • •
The SPEAKER was quite persuaded that the-Hoiise would
feel an obligatiOn to any Hon. Gentleinan who should call its
attention to any breach of its Usage.. With regard to the pre-
sent matter, he regretted that it should not have been advert-
ed to till one: of the• Hon. Members had left;the House. He
was sorry that the impression which had been
.made by she
explanation of the Hon. • Member for Cambridge had not
been so satisfactory to every Ham Gentleman asi it had been to
him. He had heard the words-as a Member of the House,
and he felt that, without periphrasis, the explanation given
by the Hon. Member for Cambridge did imply, that he :meant
nothing personal to the Hon. Member. for Aberdeen. The
Hon. Member bad explicitly declared his regret that he had
pried language which might be considered'as-offeniive to. the
House; and he (the Speaker) hoped, that the explanation
was sufficient,

Mr. HUME declared himself quite' satisfied with the ex-
planation. Had he not. been Satisfied; he would have said so
while the klunourable Member was in his place; and had he
known, lie woUldatave endeav,Oured_to ,prevent his Honour-
able Friend from mentioning the subject.
The Report of the Resolutions on the Superannuation List
was brought, tip, and aMU ordered to—be brqught in, in
terms ,thereof. '
--The Smugglers' commitment Bill was read a-seccmtlitne,
a'nd ordered to be eminuitted to-morrow.
The other. Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the
Muse, at a Quarter before Twelve, adjourned till to-morrow
(this day.) .