The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-30 00:00:00

r!,~ ;~

ing those who thus reproached them, this nlight be only an. at-
tempt to push in a few magistrates of the old Corporations.
In conclusion, he hoped the Noble Lord would persevere
making liberal appointments.
Mr. RICHARDS denied that he had been returned on
Radical principles, and would appeal to his Hon. Colleague)
whether he had not always repudiated them,,-, Hp/ Was forth* "1"
sort of Reform which was advocated by the -Right Igu. 'Da-
ronet the Member for Tamworth, and not for tliciselorganic
reforms which would inevitably lead to revolution, anarchy.
and bloodshed.—( Cheering and laughter from the Ministerial.
side of the House.)
Mr. DUNCOM BE expressed his willingness to retract, if
the Hon. Colleague of the Member for Knaresborough would
say :.hat his votes in that House were not inconsistent with this
pyrneasiu:tis made to his constituents on the hustings.
Mr, incART rose, but could not be heard for a short time,.
in consequence of the loud cries for Mr. Lawson, the colleague
of Mr. Richards, which subsiding without Mr. Lawson rising,
the Hon. Gentleman roceeded to say that the Hon. Baronet,
the Member for Bristol, vw.ls. b.-ought
as an honest man, to sub-
stantiate the charge he had .-ought against the Noble Lord.
If the charge, however, was true, it was only following the ex-
ple which had been set for years 13.)- the Tories.—(Cheers.))
The Hon. Member then stated, that upon the entrance of the
Duke of Wellington into office, and during the interregnum,
seven Tory Magistrates had been appointed to the borough of
Bristol.
Mr. C. W. WYNN rose to explain. There were no Ma-
gistrates appointed to the borough ; there were to the county.
He, at the period alluded to, held the office of Chancellor of
the Duchy of Lancaster. He received intimation that Magis-
trates were wanted for the county, but declined to give any
answer upon the subject until the list had been laid before the
Earl of Derby, the Lord Lieutenant of the County, when the
whole were appointed.
Mr. E WART said that the Right Hon. Gentleman did not
disprove the correctness of his opinion.
After a remark from Lord SANDON, which did not
reach us,
Mr. ROEBUCK said, that since he had been in that House,
he had eetoed to feel anything like astonishment at what oc-
curred ; but he had not been sufficiently accustomed to its
proceedings to hem, without surprise the hardened audacity of
the statements of that evening. The Right Hon. Baronet the
Member for Tamworth, atler passing a long life based upon
the system of exclusion, in a Zudden fit of virtue, became the
champion of equal justice.—(Cheers from the Ministerial
benches.) When justice was plat'ed in the hands of the
people, he began to ask what political Party the magistrates
belonged to. Why, it was notorious, that (Luring the continua-
tion of the Right Hon. Baronet's party in obi.'!e, the appoint-
ments were all along on political grounds. Was not the pre-
sent inquiry sheer hypocrisy and pretence, seeing that they had
been in the constant habit of appointing political magistrates?
Accustomed, he must repeat, as he had been to the proceed-
ings of that House, he was not prepared for this pretence and
audacity. The fact was, that the time of Tory domination
was fleeting away, and that was the cause of the preseut
outcry. There might be three Whigs for one Tory in a bo-
rough, but if they looked over the list of magistrates in the
county, they would find forty of the Tory party, and of the
other none at all.—( Cheers from the Ministerial side of the
House.) And why did this pass unnoticed ? Because it would
not suit a party purpose. And who were they that now
charged the Noble Lord with being a political partisan? Why,
in God's name, let the House look back, and it would see that
it was that very party—that dominant party—which they had
only lately beaten down.—( Hear, hear.) But what was
the case? A majority had been chosen—a large majority—of
Liberals in the magistracy. Were they to search about and
ascertain who was Tory and who Whig ? No such thing.
They should see who would best do justice to the people.
The Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peel) had been
called, and to a certain extent, an enlightened statesman ; and
had he not said that the people should not only have justice
but have what they believed to be justice ? And had he been
able to point out any case where justice was likely not to be
impartially administered ; and if he has not, what is this
charge but one of sheer pretence ? He knew well enough
that the people of England would see through the fallacy—
that it was only fitted for the temperature of that House—and
only for half of it. The Noble Lord (the Home Secretary)

had acted in the same way that the Right Hon. Baronet
had acted when in office. He inquired whether the cha-
racter of the magistrate nominated was unimpeachable,
whether he was fit to fill the office, and required that
he should not be opposed to the Government. He (Mr.
Roebuck) was now quite sure the Noble Lord had done
his duty to the country in regard to the magistrates, because
of the vituperation with which he was assailed from the
other side of the House. The moment he did what was right,
that moment, it was evident, he gave unforgiveable offence
to Hon. Gentlemen opposite. The moment they began int
praise and laudation of the Noble Lord, or his measures, that
moment he (Mr. Roebuck) knew there was mischief going
on, and that all was not right.—( A laugh.) As the entire
evening had been spent in hearing vituperation—( Hear and
laughter)—from the Opposition—(Haer, and renewed laugh-
ter)—he (Mr. Roebuck) was perfectly satisfied that the Noble
Lord against whom it was all directed had done his duty, and,
moreover, he was sure that, having done so, he had gained
the good will of the people of England. The great ground
of that Right Hon. Gentleman's complaint was, that the
people had now the appointment of the magistracy, and that
those they chose were not to his wish. That was the sub-
stantial ground of the Right Hon. Gentleman's complaint.
But that was just the reason why they should be acceptable
to the people of England, and why the Noble Lord was jus-
Oed in assenting to them. The Noble Lord had confirmed
the choice of the people. That was his crime in the eyes of
the Rilcht Hon. Baronet. The principle of popular controul
had often before been attacked in that House by the Right
Hon. Barone: ; but it had never been overturned, though often
defeated. Nett,ing free from popular control remained long
free from vice. It 'Was for that reason he (Mr. Roebuck) would
fain introduce popular control in all cases. He would have
the bench unpolluted by partisans, the court cleared of politi-
c it the judgment-seat uncontaminated with fawn-
ing magistrates, ,and the stream of justice uncorrupted at its
source. By no other means than popular control, could these
great objects be effected.
Sir R. PEEL—I rise, Sir, in explanation of what has
fallen from the Hon. Member respectii:g me.—(" Hear," and
cries of " Order," and " Spoke.") I shall confine myself to
explanation. One: part of the Hon. Gentleman's speech is
entirely inconsistent with the fact.—(Cheer;.) Another part
is founded on a gross misrepresentation of what fell from me
—( Cheers)—and the remainder exhibits as strong an instance
and as flagrant a proof of that hypocrisy and simulated love of
justice—(Cheers, and cries of " Order," with considerable
confusion.)
Mr. ROEBUCK rose to order—He trusted that if the
Right Hon. Baronet was permitted to make a speech attack-
ing him, he should be allowed the privilege of reply.—( Cries
of" Order.") _

Sir R. PEEL—As flagrant a proof of that hypocrisy and
simulated love of justice as I have ever seen, or heard adduced
before in this House.—( Loud cheers.)
Mr. GROTE rose to order. He wished it to be understood
that if a power of attack was conceded to the Right Hon. Bart.
opposite, a right of reply should also be granted to his Hou.
Friend the Member for Bath. —( Hear. )
The SPE AK ER said that, •in strictness,*no Hon. Member
had a right to speak more than once in the same debate, except
the member who should open it ; but it was for the House to
decide in all cases concerning its own regulations.

Sir HENRY HARDINGE said that the Hon. Gentleman
who spoke last had accused his Right Hon. Friend of being
actuated by motives of hypocrisy. His Right Honourable
Friend had, therefore, a right to repel that accusation and
justify himself.—(Hear.)
Sir R. PEEL—If the Hon. Gentleman-chooses to claim
the right of reply to anything which I have said, or shall say,
I shall be the last man in the House to deny it him. The
lion. Gentleman stated that I spent the whole time which
passed while I held the office of Secretary of State for the
Home Department in making judicial appointments for party
and political purposes. I deny, utterly and wholly deny, that
I did so.—(Cheers.)

Dr. I.IfSHINGTON rose to order. The Hon. and
Learned Member was not, however, audible in the Gallery.
He was understood to object to the Right Hon. Baronet's en-
tertaining the attacks made on him, as being irrelevant to the
question before the House.
Mr. C. W. WYNN said that in all matters personal to
Hon. Members, or which involved a charge against them, it
was usual for the House to indulge the individual so circum-
stanced with the opportunity of justifying himself, however
widely he might depart from the question in debate.---( Hear. )
Sir R. PEEL—It must entirely rest with the pleasure of
the House whether I be permitted to proceed, or whether it
will enforce its standing order in this instance more rigidly
than is usual on such occasions.—(Cheers.) But I must say
tha,
.in my experience of its proceedings, I have rarely heard
a speechsuch vituperation as that of the Hon. Gentleman
-ssed to any other Hon. Member, without also
opposite, addr,
"scion to answer it follow.—( Hear.) I
witnessing the peri2
shall trespass on the atte.: tion of the House for as short a time
as possible, and shall confine myself strictly to explanation of
the charges urged against me.—(Z. ear.) The Hon. Gentle-
man said that, as Secretary of State fortLc Home Department,
I had, during the whole period of my continuance in office,
made the power of his Majesty in judicial appointments con-
fided to me subservient to party and political purposes. I
deny it—utterly deny it.—(Cheers.) I never made any ju-
dicial appointment for party or political purposes.,—( Cheers. )
Nay more, I always refused to interfere when such grounds
ad
were alleged in favour of a candidate.—(Hear, hear.) • !,
while in office, repeated applications from Members of
Parliament who supported the Administration of which
formed a part, to appoint their friends, because they west
favourable to our opinions, but 'I always denied that that
was a valid ground of recommendation, and I uniformly
declined to interfere for them.—(Loud cheek) It is well
known that the judicial appointments rest, not with the Se-
cretary of State, but with the Lord Chancellor ; but I declare
that I never in any instance made use of the influence which
my connection with that high functionary as a member of the
Government might give me to obtain an appointment to any
judicial situation on the grounds charged against me by the
Hon. Gentleman.—( Cheers.) So much for the first part of
the Hon. Gentleman's speech, which I stated to be entirely in-
consistent with the fact, and which I hope I have proved to he
so to the satisfaction of the House.—(llear, hear.) I said
that another part of the Hon. Gentleman's observations was
founded in gross misrepresentation of what fell from me in the
debate—l proceed to prove it. The Min. Gentleman said
that my only complaint was that- the poeple had the power
of choosing their own magistracy, and that they had not
chosen them according to my wish. That was a misrepresen-
tation of what I had said. What I had stated on that occa-
sion was, that when the people exercised the power given them
in the selection of magistrates on Conservative principles,
the full weight was not given to their recommendation and