The Sun.
London, England, 1822-05-10 00:00:00

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the manufacturing interest. An Hon. and Learned Gentleman
had said, that almost the whole cost of Agricultural produce
was made up of land. He did not consider that a great deal of
property lay dead in buildings, in seed in the ground, in horses,
and other articles connected with the labour of the farmer.
But then the manufacturers had much capital lying dead in
machinery, and in the works which were necessary to carry on
their business. The proportions of capital thus employed he
believed to be much greater than had been stated, and therefore,
in legislating on this subject, he thought but little allowance
ought to be made for the large capital_ claimed as being em-
ployed exclusively in Agricultural pursuits. The ten shillings
duty on imported corn, which he was disposed to allow, was
in fact more than could be given, strictly adhering to the
principles for Which. he had contended. He had proposed
that sum, considering The farmers to bear the poor's rates,
the county rates, and the tithes in full. But poor's rates
were also paid by the manufacturer, though not in the
same proportion as by the Agriculturist. If he strictly kept
to his principle, instead of ten he should have named but
seven shillings.. The difference between seven and ten shil-
lings_ was at all events fully sufficient to cover the differ-
ence between the situation of the agriculturist and that
of the manufacturer, to which allusion had been made. He
would now notice what had fallen from the Honourable Mem-
' ber for .Corfe Castle. He (Mr. Bankes)- had talked much of
the wisdom of their ancestors. He (Mr. Ricardo) Would. ad-
mit that our ancestors did undoubtedly possess great wisdom ;
but he did not hesitate to say that in his opinion the present
generation possessed all the wisdom of their 'progenitors, and
a little more into the bargain.—(A laugh.)—According 'to the
principle for which that Honourable Gentleman contended, we
ought to rest exactly where we had been left by our ancestors,
and in no instance attempt to get forward for ourselves. But
the present generation had proved themselves capable of im-
proving on what had been done by their forefathers. They
had invented steam-boats, gas-lights, and many other things
of great value and importance, and were therefore not to be
viewed as at all inferior to those who had lived before them.
They ought not therefore to say, because the nation had
flourished. in their time, that nothing more could be done
for it now. The argument Which the Honourable-Gentleman
had used in this case might be applied to another subject. He
might say that our ancestors had incurred a debt, that with that
debt the nation had flourished, and therefore it would be very
unwise to attempt in any way to get rid• of it. He might as
well urge this as what he had actually advanced. The argu-
ment would be as good in the one case as in the other. He.
called the attention of the House to the situation in which the
country would be placed, and as to the ruin which might fall.
on it, in the event of a war, if it raised large crantities of
produce from the ,soil for the purpose of exporting the raw
produce. An Hon. Member had said England was becoming.
too much of an agricultural country. He might think that an
agricultural country was happier than a manufacturing coun-
try, but to complain of this was much the same as complain-
ing of a man advanced in years that he grew old. Nations had
their youth and old age as well as individuals, and in the more
advanced stages of their existence they became manufacturers.
This was a natural course of things, nor could it be preventech
in the case of England, unless we should determine to set limits
to our greatness, and resolve against going forward for the
time to come. If that course were taken which-in his judgment
ought to be taken, the nation would become a great manufac-
turing nation. ut it would at the same time be a great agri-
cultural nation also. It was impossible for England not to be
a great agricultural country. But if we did not wish to set
limits to our growing greatness, we'should become richer and
more powerful, if we avoided confining ourselves to our own
resources where agriculture was concerned, and were content
to purchase part of our food from foreign countries, supply-
ing them with those commodities, in which our manufacturing
skill enabled us to excel. But it had been asked how was this
to be done ? Could the farmers turn manufacturers and the
ploughmen become mechanics
.? To hear such questions pui
it might be supposed that it was in contemplation at once to
change our system and immediately to throw open our ports
to receive the corn from all parts of the world. But has any
such proposition been brought before the House ? Ile did not
feel that he had countenanced any thing of the kind, when he
proposed that the farmer should enjoy a perfect monopoly of
the home market up to 70s. and it had been admitted that 675.
was a remunerating price, and when on foreign wheat brought
in at above 70s. he wished to impose a duty of 20s. which was
to be only reduced by one shilling per quarter in each year till
it came down to 10s., then to remain permanent. When he
recommended the adoption of such measures could it with jus-
tice be imputed to him that he wished to turn the capital of
the country from agriculture to manufactures? That this would
be done there was no cause to fear. The very difficulty of do-
ing it offered sufficient security that it could notbe done. It bad
been stated that it was impossible more capital could be employ-
ed in the manufactories than was already so employed. Why if
such were the case, as it was impossible for the people of this,
country to buy corn from foreign countries but with their ma-
nufactures' the .Igricultural interest could have nothing to fear,
and they had the best security against the apprehended evil
that could by any possibility be obtained. He however believed
that, if his resolutions were carried, gradually more capital
would be employed in our manufactories, and it was because
this would prove beneficial to all parties that he wished to see
those resolutions adopted. He did not question the serious
character of the existing distress, but all that he had heard on
the subject had only served to confirm the view which he had
originally taken of it. The Hon. Member for Wiltshire had
said on the preceding night, that a supply of foreign corn
could be obtained at 255. per quarter. He (Mr. Ricardo) had
that morning received a letter from Mr. Solly, in which that
Gentleman declared that the price which he had mentioned
when giving his evidence before the Committee, was not
the accidental price at which it might be got at some
particular period, but he had , named what he knew to
be the remunerating price. It was not by an accidental
price but by the remunerating price that .their proceedings
ought to be regulated. With respect to the price at -which it
might be obtained at Memel in last January, Mr. Solly stated
that was not a_port from which any considerable supply could
be expected. Not above 20,000 quarters could be obtained
thence in a year. Now if such were the case with respect to
this price of five-and-twenty shillings--if it had no better foot
to stand upon than this, it would be seen that it was utterly
unworthy of the notice of that House. He had now one ob

jection to make on what had fallen from a Noble Lord yester-
day on the subject of the Resolutions come to in the Committee,
which he stated to have been carried almost without a dis-

senting voice. He (Mr. Ricardo) had gone into that Commit-
tee with precisely the same view which he now entertained.
—lt was known that the landed interest itself groaned under
the greatest possible distress,• and he was therefore well
disposed to do any thing that could be done to relieve it
now, provided some security were given that they should
return to a better system on a future day. For a time the
Committee gave him reason to hope that they would not refuse
such a pledge, but when they came to make their report they
flew off from the point, and would do nothing of the kind.—
The conditional agreement which he had previously made with
them was from that moment dissolved, and that being dissolved
the resolutions had no longer his concurrence in their favour.—
With respect to what had been said by the Hon. Member for
Hertford as to the bias supposed to act on Mr, Solly's mind, he
admitted that that respectable Gentleman might have some bias
of the kind imputed, but he begged to ask the Members of that
House if they themselves were not likely to be in sonic degree
biassed in a similar way ? He hoped they would bear in mind
that they were not now to legislate for themselves, but with a
view of promoting the welfare and happiness of millions. And
doing this he begged of them also to remember that no evil was
greater than having food too high in price, as that produced in
a hundred ways the most afflicting consequences. lie was asto-
nisted at what he had heard from the Hon. Member for Essex.
_ . _

He.consiclered the high price of corn to be a matter of indiffer-
ence, if not of exultation. He wished the price of corn to be
high, but he wished it to be obtained by little labour. 'tile
higher the nominal, and the lower the real price, the better in
his (Mr. Western's) opinion. He (Mr. Ricardo) could agree
with the Hon. Gentleman in this, but he was surprized when
he came to the testto find that he would do nothing that would
procure corn at a low real price. He wished that we should
continue to grow our own corn, and onlyin very particular cases
import from foreign countries. Acting on this plan, it was im..
possible for corn to be obtained at a low real price, as that could
only be accomplished by purchasing it from other countries
with our manufactur,s.

Mr. BENETT observed that the Hon. Gentleman had not
sufficiently exhibited theunds on which he had made his
calculation. He (Mr. B.gro) had calculated the effect of indirect
taxation on agriculture, and the result was as 30s. Bd. compared
with the Hon. Gentleman's 10s. The Hon. Member for Read-

ing had last night stated that bread in France was only a penny
a pound. If so, corn in that country must be still lower than

PRICE SEVENPENCE.

255. a quarter. But it was not by him, however (Mr. Benett),
that the statement had been mode. that • 255. was the price
at which corn could be purchased on the Continent.: lie
allowed that the dirty which he proposed' of 245. would be
higher than that duty would have been befyre the passing
of Mr. Peel's Bill. But that Bill had produced a similar
effect on our foreign exchangeS, and which effect must ma-
nifest itself in the price of Foreign Corn. He was as anxi-
ous as any man to keep faith with the public creditor; but
why were they not also to keep faith with the farmer, who was
now reduced to the very last pitch of distress ?. He contended
that the duties proposed were not sufficient. At present, fo-
reign corn stored here was sold from hand to hand et 375. per
quarter. Let the kicks of these store-houses 1." :emoved,
and then that corn, with the 17s. duty of the Noble 'Lord (Lon-
donderry), would come into the market-at 50s. How, 'then,
could the English farmer compete with this ? The Honourable
Member then, alluding to the evidence •given before the Com-
mittee by Mr. Sony, observed that there was another point upon
which he intended to say a few words., It was said that fanneei
ought not to cultivate, oe rather that they ought not to con-
tinue in cultivation, lands of an' inferior quality. To this he.
answered, that land; though originally poor, was capable of
being so improved .by attention as almost to equal a very rich
soil. The Honourable Member concluded by expressing a
hope that Are House would take the necessary steps to protect
the British grower against the unnecessary. introduction of fo.
reign corn.
air. CURWEN, after some prefatory observations on the
state of the markets for 25 years before the ports were open,
reminded the House that iu the memorable year 1799, when a.
scarcity was felt, an importation to the extent of a six weeks'
supply was immediately 'called for. That supply was provided
at great expence, and not without some difficulty, from Ame-
rica and the Cape of Good Hope, and some rice was even im.
ported from India. In times of danger he admitted the neces-
sity of importing foreign corn ; it ought to be then liberally re-
ceived, so as to satisfy the wants of the community, but not per-
mitted to remain here and accumulate, to the injury of the home
grower.. When he objected to the duty fixed by the Honour-
able Baronet (Sir T. Lethbridge), it was not because he thought
it unnecessarily high, or beyond the scale of protection really
due to the home grower, but because he thought it would be
impossible to maintain it against the probable feeling of the
country. He denied the accuracy of the, calculations upon
which the rates of protecting duty mentioned were framed.l--
The Noble Marquis's (Londonderry's), though intended to
reconcile the wishes of all parties, were founded upon erro-
neous data-the price of production in foreign countries was
not fairly given. Mr. Sony had informed the Committee that
corn at Odessa could be had, and at a remunerating price for
the farmer, so 19w as 16s. a quarter, and might be imported at
325. Now, he (Mr. Curwen) from the best information which
he could procure, thought that calculation incorrect, and that
corn at Odessa,could be had (and with a . fair profit to the
grower) at 12s. instead of 16s. ; it therefore could be imported
at 245. and not 325. It should always be remembered that
the Baltic prices were not liable to regulation so much by the
cost of production abroad, as by the necessity for the article
here-that was the regulating barometer.__( Hear. )-Whenever
there was a failure in the Crops, 'there could be always secured
a foreign supply to meet the evil, anti regulations were easily
practicable to secure its
,proper effect throughout the country.
The Noble Marquis, when he spoke of I>antzic corn, ' wits
wrong when he stated that it might be imported at 425.: the
fact was, the importation might take place at 325. or 335. He
had obtained an estimate of the prices of the best grain at the
different markets within the last two months, and from them
he found that the foreign second corn, except in Friesland,
where there was an inferiority, always averaged equal to our
best ; and their best was always 4s. or ss. more valuable in the
markets. The foreign average prices were as follow :-The
first quality, 295. and 1-7th, the price to put aboard ; and the
second quality, 235. and 6-7ths. Our average best at home
was 525. and 1-10th ; second best, 435. 3-10ths. So that there
was a difference between their best and ours of 235., and of 20t.
in the second, independent of the inherent superiority of value,
which would add to the price at the rate he had mentioned. If
the Noble Marquis would consider these calculations, he would
find that the agriculturists would not derive the benefit he in-
tended for them according to his own scale;, for if he re-consi-
dered the prices, he would see that the foreign grower could
avail himself of his duty and come into the market at 575.
The Honourable Gentleman near him (:fir. Ricardo) was of
opinion that 655. would be a fair protecting price to the far-
mer : so it would be, if he could always be sure of obtain-
ing it, but that was impossible. He agreed that nothing
was more desirable than to secure cheap bread for the pub-
lic, but it ought to be done by an attention to the interests of
the farmer, so as
,to enable him to furnish that article on cheap
terms. What was it that made the farmer complain ? The
overwhelming taxes and depreciated currency which attended a
long war. He knew and felt that the farmer could not expect
the country would maintain for him an unequal price; but they
ought at least to put him upon the same fair footing for the
protection of his property, as the other classes of the commu-
nity. Hon. Gentlemen seemed to have forgotten that the ma-
nufacturer, in the course of the year, turned over his capital at
a profit five or six times, whereas' the agriculturist could do so
but once in the year. They had called upon any one to show
them that set or class of persons who had ever thriven under
restrictions. He (Mr.. Curwen) thought he had pointed out
one which 'had prospered snider such a state of things for the
70 first years of the last century. It was unnecessary to inquire
what had been the effect of the three years' importation. We
had imported in that peric,l to the amount of pretty nearly
3,000,0001. in corn-he should say about 1,600,000 quarters of
wheat. That supply we might have required for two years,
and for part, probably, of the third. The ports shut in the
month of Feb. 1819. Now he entreated the attention of the
House to this statement, that if he said we had consumed, in
the first year, 800,000 quarters, that was the very utmost in
the second year we had certainly consumed considerably less ;
and it was hie belief that we had 500,000 or 600,000 quarters of
the supply left on hand at the commencement of 1819. Suppose
the quantity was only 500,000 quarters, what must have been
the effect ? Would not every gentleman who had a knowledge
of these subjects bear him out in saying, that the operation of
such an enormous surplus, remaining unconsumed at a time
when we had no occasion or a single bushel of imported corn,
had been to weigh very heavily upon the home' market ever
since ?-(Hear, hear !)--Two years ago, he (Mr. Curwen)
had strongly pressed upon the Right Hon. the President of the
Board of Trade, the injury which such a circumstance might
ultimately occasion to the country. His admonitions, how-
ever, were disregarded, and his prediction denied. The sequel
had but too well verified it. Gentlemen, therefore, would do
well not to run away with an idea that the whole of the exist-
ing distresses were occasioned by over-production. If' the Noble
Marquis would not accede to his (Mr. Curwen's) proposition,
let him at least substitute some other in its stead, which should
carry the protection as high as the Noble Lord himself had ad-
mitted it was proper to be fixed at.. The question now at issue
before the House was no less than whether a class of 500,000
persons, who had.ever flourished in proportion as the country.
had flourished, should be placed once more its the way of at-
taining something like their former character, or he abandoned
as paupers ?-(Hear, hear!)-.The Hon. Member concluded
by suggesting to the Noble Lord, that 80s. ought to be the
protecting price ; 10s. per quarter the duty afterwards ; ss. ad-
ditional the duty, when the price should be from 80s. to 90s. ;
another 58. when it was from 90s. to 100 s.; and that after it had
attained that point, the trade should be open ;* but he fairly
confessed his apprehension that the duties never could be car-
ried so high, while the country was circumstanced in other
respects as it was at present.
Sir CHARLES BURRELL was much pleased with what
had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Curwen), though he
did not think his plan practicable in all respects. Of the plan
which had been that evening submitted to the House, one fact
was, to allow 400,000 quarters of foreign corn to be brought
into the market at ss. duty. Now he (Sir C. Burrell) wished
to !slow how it was proposed to bring these in ? Whether by
license, or certificate, or in what other way ? All things con-
sidered, he (Sir C. Burrell) acknowledged that he was disposed
to prefer the proposal of the Noble Lord; and if it-were accom-
panied with another suggestion, mentioned in the Report,. he
should consider it liable to very little exception. He wished to .
know whether the proposition in question was meant to be perse-
vered in ? If was, that a duty of from 12s. to 15s. per qr. should be
imposed on foreign wheat imported for home consumption, when
the price should exceed 70s. If the Hon. Member for Suffolk in-
tended to take the sense of the House upon this proposal, he
(Sir C. Burrell) would certainly vote for it. In any Bill which
the House,might agree to, he should wish to have this provision
inserted that the averages should for the future be taken on
Irish corn sold in the British market, as well as on our own
grain.. He had been informed by very good judges,- that it wes
almost impossible to tell Irish wheat from English ; and it was
very certain that the person who, tinder the present regulations,

Muck the average,' knew nothing about any such difference,
but proceeded upon the information of others. There was reason
to believe that at present a good deal of unfair speculation was
-engaged in on account of the difficulty of detecting this distinc-
tion ; and he conceived it would be much better to obviate all
temptation to fraud, by including Irish grain in the average.
• He might be disposed, after the ports should be opened, to
recommend that foreign grain should be also included. Upon
the whole, he was inclined to support the Noble Lord's propo-
sition.
CURWEN explained.
Mr.-EASTNOR said, that no one could expect immediate
fella from the propositions now before that House, and he was
surfoised at that not having been kept more in view. He was
disposed to Support, upon principle, the resolution of the Noble
Lerd, but he did not think it quite satisfactory. He should,
,lowever, vote for it in the Committee.
Lord CRANBORNE thqught a duty of 125., with an ad-,
ditional 55., was not sufficient finathe protection of agriculture,
aod he had therefore moved in the Committee that 3s. should
be added. He confessed that he should be disposed to get a
better bargain for the farmers if he could, but the best he
eoult! no* do for them was to vote for his Noble Friend's reso-
intim 1.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY wished to take an op-
portua 'ty, at this period of'the debate, to address a few obser-
vations , to the Committee' upon the mode of argument adopted
- by the aon. Member for Cumberland, at which, he confessed,
be fett,cctn. .iiderable surprise. He could not, conceive how the
Honourable Member was disposed to .sit down and leave the
laws in met a state as he proposed. •His opinions must have
undergone a a lost extraordinary change since he was in the
Committee,. ant 1 since he had been down into the country. The
Noble Marquis then objected to the resolutions proposed by
the Hon. kieiribe. and contended that his own went to place
the law upon,its of iginal basis, but at the same time to modify
it starer as to reraot 'e the defects which it possessed. At pre-
sent corn would s,be protected up to 80s., because the ports
were to open under tit 2 old law. After that it would be pro-
tected up to seventy by seventeen shillings, and above eighty
by twelve shillings. An Non. Member had said that corn in
warehouses mighthe bou lit now at 255. or at 345.. But that was
such as might not be sold Ow seven years to come if the ports
`l.:abould not open. Its -talus teas very likely half gone by lying
by as it had already. Itwas n le a marketable article, and there-
,cting prices upon. But if the
tore not one to argue the otrota
question, instead of being worth
ports should open, :the oiler.in
345. or 235. would perhap fee& 50s. or 60s. They had travelled
ever the Continent for the prie to get at an average, and he
thought the state in which:the-A* Ile of the Continent now was,
warranted and demanded protectie n for the farmer. The ge-
neral supply from the Continent ova s not to be dreaded ; and
-indeed it was what they .formerly co Tisidered a. matter of jea-
lousy and fear from a reverse motive. It was always doubted
t
whether the supply from the Continen would be equal to our
wants, upon occasions of great demand, owing to failure in the
crops. Under this irorneeston, they has I always been looking
at the more distant markets, and partic, ularly to America.
The Hon. Member should remember tin 't foreign corn being
warehoused here as liable to the same fa to as had attended
w
large quantities. at the present time; corn e having been in
warehouse for three or four years. And' this took off five
shillings of its value for every year. It was match the practice
of Hon. Members to take the lowest prices they could hear of,
and come to the House to argue the amount h.f duties upon
them. But it-should be remembered that the coin now worth
325. at Dantzic, by any sudden demand might be noised to 355.1
in one day, and in a few days to 408. The proposition which
he had submitted to the House would admit corn when the
price got up to 705., and if that should have the effect of reducing
me prices, no three months the ports would again close. If
Their object was to shut out foreign corn altogether, they had
better resort to the old favourite, and the shortest mode of pro-
hibition. But that was not what they vtanted. .Their duty
was to, regulate the import, so as to supply the wants of the
country without injury to the farmer. He was surprised at
thea proposition that had come from the Hon. Member for
'Cumberland. The best interests of the farmer did not require a
.monopoly, but that he should be able to bring-his produce into
,the market upon equal and just terms. Upon these grounds
eote hoped the -House would supeert his Resolution, which, in-
stead of being injurious to the fanner, was. intended for his
protection and benefit.
Mr. D. BROWN thought, with the lion. MentborfooCurn-
berland, that 80s. ought to be the lowest importation price. He
was an advocate for the prohibition, as he felt convinced that
the United Kingdom was at all times fully competent to pro-
duce sufficient for its own consumption.
Sir G. ROBINSON began by sheaving that at different pe-
riods the price of corn varied with the commercial circum-
stances of the country. From 1777 to 1780, they decreased
their imports, and the table was then covered with Petitions
similar to the present. When the peace came, they resumed
their colonies, and prosperity increased with their commerce.
In the year 1781, they were an exporting- country in the ar-
hicle of corn, in place of being an importing country ; 1782
was a year of dearth, but in 1783 and 1784, they were again
an exporting country, and continued so to the beginning orthe
last war. He called upon Ministers to promote the commerce
of the country, as that which alone could redeem all classes.
lle concurred in the principle that trade ought to be free, if
Abet,. were in-a-situation to put it in practice. He thought a
duty of 20s. would be altrotecting duty sufficient under ere-
,
seat circumstances.
I Mr. LOCKHART said, there were some of the calcula-
-tioes of the Noble Lord,,(Londonderry)• that filled him with
dis May.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said,- in explanation
across the table, that he merely endeavoured to give a turn to
the scale in favour of the agriculturists.
Mr. LOCKHART continued—He understood the Noble
Lard in that sense, but his calculations ought to be (mini
xxeeptione major in favour of the agriculturist. The calcu-
lations ought to have been founded on a principle that would
give the fullest protection to the British agriculturist. It
was not fair to take the average from the Dantzic prices.—
The Noble Lord also charged too high for freight and ex-
penses. On these charges the British agriculturists ought to
'.lave had fuller protection. 'lf they had not full protection, the
necessary result would be that they must repeal their own taxes
by discontinuing every useless article from which taxes arose.
He did not think they would be much the worse for this ; but he
wished the Noble Lord to consider how it would affect public
credit. It hail been said that the lands of the country were
mortgaged to the public creditor. He looked into every Act of
Parliament on the subject, but could not find this asserted in
any one of them. If they thought that such was the case, and
- an attempt were made to act upon the principle, he should an-
- sorer with an ancient nation—" Come and take them." He
should resist such attempt as much as he would !the invasion
of any foreign force.
~To prevent the necessity of recurring
to such extremes, he would call upon his Majesty's Ministers
for a reduction of taxation. Unless the agriculturists were
protected in sonic way or other, they could not continue their
cultivation. The cessation of the war demand, and the change
of currency, were the great causes of the present evil, and there
were no means of escaping from it but by giving adequate pro-
tection.
Sir C. BURRELL said, that something must be done in the
present state of the country. He thought, however, no protec-
tion shonld be given to the agrieulturists inconsistent with the
-welfare of the other classes of the community.
Sir 11. VIVIAN declared himself not to be one of those who
considered taxation as the cause of the existing distress. He
believed, that if there had not been a tax on the statute-book,
the distress would have arisen under the other circumstances of
the times. If taxation were the cause of distress, he was quite
sure that he heard of no proposal at all calculated to relieve it,
excepting, of course the extravagant proposition of the Hon.
Member for York, which went to commit such an injustice up-
on the fundholder. He desired not to be understood as'being
against the farmer ; but he considered the manfacturing inte-
rests as much entitled to protection as-the agricultural. He
should vote for the resolution of the Noble Lord ; and he hoped
, the House would conic to a decision that might afford relief;
aria allay the fever which disturbed the country. •
Sir J. SHELLEY thought 'the plan proposed by the Noble
Lord (Londonderry), would do much good. It would be-much
better than the existing Corn Law. 'He did not think the evil
could at all be traced-to the present rate of rents.
iidr. Alderman SMITH hoped the House would, as soon as
possible, come to a decision advantageous to the country.
Mr. WHITMORE did not think, he said, that the present
evil arose from superabundance of produce, for it always hap-
pened-that, where there was au abundant harvest in one place
it was scanty in others, so that the prices generally Were equa-
reed. The operation of the Corn Laws was to raise the prices
of, corn at ohe titan and to diminigh them at another, which
must injure the farmer-in the progress of time. He objected to
the principle of the Noble Lord's measure, because he consi-
dered it would be morally impossible to impose a duty of 20s.
with any safety to the State. lie was inclined to the proposi-
tion of the Hon. Member for Portailington, because his pro-
posed duty came down to 10s. a quarter.
Mr. WESTI.RN said he intended very' riefly to state the
reasons which would govern his vote. He thought the country
was not in a Condition to legislate on corn at the present time.
The Hon. Member who Just sat down said he inclined to the
itcoolutions of the Hon. Member for Porterlington, but he
(Mr. Western) feared he (Mr. Whitmore) did not sufficiently
look to the consequences of those pMpositions. Without stating
his own opinions, he felt the premises of all whb -spoke refuted
the consequences they deduced from them. The markets of
Europe were now overflowing, and the redundance here was said
to produce the present distress. If that were the case, was this a
M meent permanently to legislate on so extensive a trade as that
of corn ? It would be unfair now to legislate on continental
prkes,, at a time Whet:owe were governed in our prices by a paper

currency. The Committee would be led into a very fatal error
if they acted on such a view of the subject. It would be abso-
lutely impossible to afford a satisfactory result from the Measure
of protection now proposed.._ The Hon-Member generally ad-
verted to the pamphlet of the Honourable Member for Port-
arlington, and looking to the prices of corn as stated in its
appendix, he (Mr. W.) contended a conclusion must be come
to as to the money value of corn totally different from that of
that Hon. Member. In fact, the larger quantity of corn brought
into the market in 1814 obtained a higher price than the small
quantity in 1820. Ile would follow the advice of the Hon.
.I%lember for Corfe Castle, and beg the House to pause before
they legislated. As he said before, this was not the time for
legislation—or if legislation were adopted, it could do no essen-
tial service. We had now more wheat than we had on an
average of the last twenty years, and therefore there could be
no danger. In fact, the wisest step to be pursued was to act
on the suggestion of the lion. Member for Corfe Castle.—(Ve-
hement cries of Question !)
Mr. Alderman HEYGATE rose amidst loud cries of
" Question !" He would submit, if the Noble Lord and the
Honourable Gentlemen who were bringing forward their mea-
sures were not likely to place the agriculturists in a worse con-
dition than they were in at present. He thought the yeomanry
of the country the most moral, the most useful,'and substantial
part of the community, and their interests should not be ne-
glected. He would vote for the duties only on the condition of
having a power vested in the Privy Council to dispense with it
in case of scarcity.
Sir W. CUNNINGHAM supported the motion, of the No-
ble Marquis • but, from the noise which proceeded from dif-
ferent parts Of the Ilouse, it was scarcely possible to hear what
be said.

Mr. RICARDO said he rose merely to correct a statement
made by an Hon. Member, who said that corn had partaken of
all the varieties of the paper currency. He assured the lion.
Member that no such thing had taken place.
The Committee then divided. The numbers were—Ayes
24.—Noes 220.

Another division afterwards took place on an amendment, as
was'Understood, moved by Mr. Ricardo; the numbers were—
Ayes 25,, Noes 218.
The Cdnimittee then divided upon 'the first Resolution of
the Marquis of Londonderry—namely, " that the present du-
ties should cease and determine ;" when the numbers were
For the Resolution - - 218
Against it - 36
Majority _ --182

The other 'Resolutions were then agreed to without a division.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that with respect
to the Resolution relating to the grinding of foreign corn in
warehouse, he would not submit any popontzon on that subject.
The Committee then reported progress, and received leave
to sit again.—The House adjourned at HALr-rasT TWELVE.
SIESS 2,614Z10N1N5111