The Sun.
London, England, 1831-02-09 00:00:00

.

ted them
sed Mr. '
[notions
nett) had
turista of
, " Ah,
about: yol
ce." So
ed only
He had,
at be attri
peeches ai
) meet th.
:a had gr

now presiding over the same departmen
same eulogy. He considered that that
last body of individuals in the country who
with the administration of justice. He
)mmissions had intimidated the riotous por-
tntry. He wished to state one fact be-
down : the part of the county of Sussex
ibouring population was in the worst con-
free from outrage during the late dis-

.E should take up very little of the time of
the speech which had occupied two hours
to which the lion. Member for Wilt-
in a speech of equal length, giving word
[rot for argument, and defence against
.Laughter.)—There seemed to him to be
"he present dispute—the lion. Member
had brought forward the question—the
Wiltshire, who had defended his pro-
mob, and his character from the charges
it—and the Government, w hose cause he
'mild then undertake. The real question
whether the House of Commons should
advise the Government as to what per-
to punishment they should select for the
I God! were they to imitate the canting
ul up addresses to the Crown, dictating
rich the prerogative of mercy was to be
.)—Had a blacking manufacturer's
, he doubted very much that the Member
luld submit a proposition to the House
ineendiaries.—(Laughter.)—lle trusted
be no mincing the matter—that the
view the question partially. It really
lot they would upheld the Constitution—
they would allow this beautiful laud
late, or the means of subsisting its inha-
That revolution was the object of some
'as proved by their proceedings. He
the names; but he knew that the
slier for Preston had been adopted by one
least.—(Laughter.)-..-There was one man
was Cooper, preferred that of the Mein-
and called himself Captain Hunt.—
)--Why lie did so, he (Sir J. Yorke)
could see no reason for it—(Laughter)
Le least resemblance in the names. The
or an n, or an h in his own name ;
Le called himself Captain Hunt, and
,nrse, to make himself a Wellington in
.me Hon. Member for Preston considered
,resentative of all the unrepresented. He
Lose people, and had made them look up
' representative. He was also a Radical
sat character he had devoted himself,
scriptural phrase, fur lighteousness-sake.
lut the Hon. Gentleman had many re-
He was a ►ery good-looking man, and
:her good points since he came into that
.%)—But to one thing Ire (Sir J. Yorke)
iberty of advising him—that was, not to
les ; to use no mere verbiage in
ughter)—to confine himself to the facts
be true, and not to state facts of which
icle.—(Laughter.)—He would also ad-
speeches should be seldom delivered.
Hon. Gentleman would take his
me sincerity in which he offered it ; and
that the lion. Gentleman would be yet
Is with the Aristocracy of that House,
the forty-five Tories, under the coin-
"lt General who was the representative
'erpool.
'H said that nobody could have a better
a better manner, than the Hon. Mem-
But the [Lou. Member for Preston,
led himself t•a lie heard on all

) direct
exert
hii count
Mr. fli
Ices were

'ere dist u
❑stantly

I, and sc,/%

every hod:
7e. At
their illeg:
td the He
spoken or
le rank
he utmost
ith hotel
tly dispel
.rut he ht
comrade
be (Mr.
tr.)—Tht
ill-treatrn,
Biting 111 a
• existed,
't, the CI
gaol en Sr
hi paid to
rant of r:
proper att
e prisoner
unate he

Were wou,
ad of Cal
ificed.

xtremity,
eR. CYpi
h of the
twelve hi
[—not the
—but tb,
ever kne'

een inci

me was r
• strike tl
t themsel,
he mobs.
ners that
the rioter
1 been in
actuated
g-inachin•
ed to keel'
k would
Benett) li
)t take th
w any nil
hine whir
Luse he
td his col
t to what
,hould
srs, and
rc of d,:sti

oeca-

the rioter
—" You'
uppermost
peaceful
others.
ided in
kie peopli
ipprehem
Should
would I
Then the
einselves
gs were

with attention, was never mow en-
-e bearing than when he spoke in the
.—(Hear.) For his pail, he (Lord
oue to interfere against humanity; but
the present motion the Honourable Gen-
.he would not say on a spurious but on a
—(llear.)—He was cure that there had
of punishment acted upon in the course
4, hut that the greatest pains had been
:ase thoroughly. In one case which had
the Hen. Member for Preston—that of
T—although he did not wish to pre-
that person—he could not consent to

have tray eternal chaplets, or to place him above
ammatol or to class hint with the heroes and the
espectabli because lie had done that, if he had
e horses—, told be classed with odious parricides._
observed ' ' M.) was not unwilling to give to those
T called consideration, although they had re-
Jorcheste: at consideration of the Judges who tried
red that ,AW
, li : ,Ittl
,imen Officers of the Crown, and of his Ma-
rs. Wile. t ; but he did not think that the present
eel the mattertidditfe4t, tenir in Which ti
le House ought to be led away, in
ndiarics, and tio,:ta,Alaor ernes% i',,t,
the guilty, to forget what was due to
tern parts of e t/ii, N. e"t, Ivh
, ,,,i rll He 0 look un to the laws for peace and pro-
) their work, andifoo btl 44 4 bgliev , •
boa /IA tit I not ytt ea that there were districts in which
'he labourer, , ~eb 4, t f,, ppr L "eased, and where men lay down at night
jots but exper`e ge kat, 'sit, ',..ensioo
?y would net ,d pollto'tst be :1' their labour
in the morning they should find
our destroyed. He feared that there
men who Os' )/6t N, Bear eit
her' cot deaf attrii Yof food, in a country, mistakenly be
w.—(Hear, on, 1t.,,,,„ tr4et. et} to ,
j aoy p 0 itti'lly, lon of the system of the Corn Laws; and
mice to
_,,sezu ,a, at, 14 agricultural produce must enhance the
t belnenainnyfiePe of;ri/ no I'll7ll iA,tl, ao.l4lr:hst a time, he did not think it prudent to
filo. fothoaath Aftat ri Yto crimes of such an effect. He
Le
peeple..
paw
Ler„kltt
rifles,
would only prove an inducement
t the deel'e nf the I, t '144 ,r) au i. • If he :might apply to the unhappy
°wards any - 0 tli a lays, (44 deeds
the language of a classical poet, he
ideate as ever '0,0" ,',°,,i
tin„
„aia,s„t.,attaslistii,P'nArtanii felices eruc sylvls •
sure that tlleY ...thoojefl,'._.
he
violence boar'u o,Vh.,+ t„..4a,,t
,alaiurn ignem tu , ' .
. b,O tr ''er,ttgole,o
,_m in
~ ,a 9 , interfice messes :
Able neigh .b P or . er . ta te r , Ines moltre Inpennem :
chiC , /4,, 'lt (Alit „, (Penit tratia laudis "
the peace %clop
Ito
a-tf,re ought
no't,le Ilouae might be disposed to make for
,rtful mans, oot Io ~et, with to confer
n. member ts lay ay.r. the fi_ r impunity upon crime, and
, bost, (eio,, . tie tv,o_, rst prerogative of the Crown, which
persona.
ry i1,./1, oy i -cd..Eunl vote against the motion.
nature to ear far 4Na °th -,-Ey 0
t__([ ~,'
0r
it, rs, e truth Pptsed the motion, and bore tea-
r any ac todiAll,,,tttit, 'I, to ti "of the statements of the preceding
fence in eon
t,,0 rhook rtr) -rk uf ''e latelclonduct of the peasantry, and the
man—but w"- oi" I, t, lite i
the
He deprecated the interference of
louse a e111';°::c.-ottj ItitllilltA,tl4, 11+11et .4(lnainistration of justice, which belonged
proofs, it v , of ~i tt kti. •'Y ou ,L 0 the execu.'
r a stateinelP ,I, , , 'l,le •got not Live government. Above all
rter oery ps Ni of ie to step in between the King and
down, 3i, „ ~,, ~4 , tt t 4 L. reY---hia dearest prerogative. Ile gave
ns leaving t"
of
il)
01,itt/, iket:Attinal'il‘.,jaie, sty's Ministers for having rested
„,i,,,..4artid of'cossai_ i.ti a time of great peril ard diffi.
ill that some 011'
~,lit /V
ili,lltiellt. eiblire ru_g down to that ilouse for increased
Preston otta e% 4 pt ,
41111' '
, cuoS 1,0 , °b
AT, which they would have had a
expected tt" o'vt,l ~ Ni, -4p/I
county is ,10 Ph: •Ivat' NEV e.,,,,,..
t.in,lttet
pre4lo rte e,,
kolak, tint
klion,.
A-‘-irc.it, ERAL said--I rise to make a
k,1410,t individuquiestion has been addressed to me
JjaritY W 35 theer j'S4 who was concerned in a riot, in
labourers in °nail °Pi I,:l's th, vi°lent at'tack was made upon a Magistrate.
trY boti t what!4 I, 'Potiti
of the gen te ( q ,-, eeo ", Wer .I •
labourers wee 04 lite ,21.1,tt. not 0..., L aid before us, we found that
00 it A, Pro Ate "IY a riot, but great personal violence
n a hostile ow I ~qr, er! 1. rtntl to
to
~,,, ve. Y dojo a special constable, who was at the
ould exPeet eglirtj 4t,,,,''t '°trieu "Arginn. 1 •
n tive t to _ b us duty. It was the duty of
), person' 0./02, t 4. , firmnekiJatect the !Magistrates. It was ne-
tp.it:..-hread 0c bpi til-1 l'l 8 1.11
01 ..:,.t0 ~t4wielader of"tito those who might be too back-
Iroxicattatiog,
I.oa
,'‘tic;Ooln ti rin rvaN 50 mob made a ferocious attack
"re s
~
_rico.,"
~,,,51, we
hi_nlawfully detaining him. The persons
not 0t .s 6 eg u, . tt. , 110.°,.. Mernher for Preston had his infor-
small vdigoofe ) ttta!t was ' likely to
r II 110 4,t be very disinterested in their
trace
ei. the olesfof IN agt,s 5, ~,
wliplntriti.es that the Magistrate had, on
ieir tratle,„eteti,d, k ,IN 50, tho
,ad beet, et' tar, e.,:tite a eel, speeial " Land at the time that he and
ot 409 r,,,,,,4 'ilk, Y viol
._ constable, were surrounded by an
pod cite) to tj dit' A, titt,'"rner n "It mob-- ( lie tr)--one of whom !lung
t sentenc Is .1,
it,
” i Wt.,,4415'.,°'11t, 5,
" °nee, but twice, 0„ pell'frotli 0, 1.4 t L qviy. , 'ruck the s . h-e. The hammer, in the
h; 14 lay hi nio, off his special constable with so much
his removal
ed et,
oder I,t. Olf, 4,, eedin. horse, and he fell over a wall,
r, hadre had, as'to, 'llte ':t with ga_n,d insensible I thought the man
iote, ambit r
oio I,lm ply optital crunch
ferocity ought to be put n his
ember), or poor
..! I,i +o, the the
riot. me, although he had at first- been ac-
selectel ' ;fe %o liii A'ati science a
trial, the gentleman en-
,riend (the 0,0
:it ibie4, . the
Prisonertold
the
Lt I,i
.1144
. _'," AAte ha that he was not prepared
se jahowar!ro.ore.,,tijj, :t ~i,,bit the fac," the capital charge ; to which I
lle s',ll.3lP'te Pa,:ns, ,td 0 " were t
h t ictmehnet same, whatever charge
, at le_a_srteetat,
~.b,,ei, a; itt1.14,14
,cti*iell,etheriTillietilnleim. • The evidence was one and
quite '', the r DP, 4 h.°4620 But,
on, Oa. , roll
,for tik, . otl Oyu! , 0w0„... for riot. or for the
in dol.)
tio!or, 4,,re1, At tro°:intet:onlndizintieca.,,tothatthe tglelenrteleminainghmt
ybberienfo. '
tiered that there have be
wnelit'leiTcoods:etiofe iiil4:llll4e e:fretriaZ
take isiog 1,1 0 1,21(1, *sorted that with all the practiceesnwsl7che
se of (ley
.th al itt tl,ta of Of th to for ti
ie purpose of inflaming
; agre; wi_o,,, o,foet t4b.lieil c,'"•-_4(illeearp_eople, ‘ Only three have been com
oi ton , '`...Loole
.a. CI `-'..e Itto,' hear.) /
am -
made sure that the Ho-
that till 7,,at1Y010 tt ae°A 1.,h41140
~..5,„0,9 re „te j katio,, eeiveo accordinhis statement respecting
to"`4o,e ohne', I,o‘t hay if , hot i. g to the information which
nit
,e, bet' d' 1,1,44 oer 'ltch a can assure him that Ido
plant y
try, a
ror 4tl L ttl, orroci. etrcumstance
s.,,,,,,,,a‘vle.hineriii rteliceollleicotnionof any
the cot° 'opal' d tngal 4;;,sta,en hose ~__ as that of which he
t have 00 PI, tta:lta .noled. '8 " t
Gentle-
The" girto eolPt11)40 ittliett':iltilitilt.;eint,. .12,1trenpciatioillIF.tthiele t 0 which
pirofessiona.l persons
ereirasf-itreJ, ,oes
n getting up the
,Iskt 1 the
.pforinatn:uneting them
and that Ny'ses baritlefsthwe-
those PAstiolli'l
'ing there sre ,n 411 j 5/epotiti L°ll OS that. The
d any such
leactdioiong, 5 wdiejfirooll I;tit,l4•ll:l4tßiiiviiettoMths,e
eraeccmouodnet
thirlis it afer4 ' 4''' Vt'eot. 'I
been said el.' There is another c
t oeish tde aott,,.. bee ton with A both in and out of doors,ase
the p ~!A p 0 ,AO .114 At,„_ n which the
t. 1
_ha de, t 0; ''',, . ' toh,‘,s of Mentioned i 0 - name of a Learned
i v
,tne .
~ p i 0 pi arty kinda manner that I think no
a%,, 2e ecoi(Ci..., certainly none such as those
lie cool f tay„,c
the ho o°lo r have,and justified._
st
give fi e di;
i...._m
•-.11. tt _I 44 al, t...,,pec. . .
4 1 00. All'ejrnbeer said
lad /10 tr

full credit for the sentiment, that he intended no offence
to any Member of this House; but, to put the most fa-
vourable conclusion upon his words, it could scarcely be
imagined that he intended to deal tenderly with the
character of the learned and eminent person to whom I
have alluded. Setting aside, however, the language he
made use of in this House, what shall we say to that which
he is understood to have uttered in another place, and to
a very different assembly? What are we to say of his
there announcing that he intended to impeach that Learned
Judge--applying every term lie could use to heap odium
and indignation upon the head of one who was absent—of
one dignified, and from his situation incapable of defence
—of one respecting whose conduct he had made no inquiry;
but upon the possibility of his intended inquiries turning
out as be anticipated—upon that bare possibility he de-
nounced the Learned Judge, and intimated his intention
of moving his impeachment? I will put it to the
House whether that has not bee❑ a departure from
that candour, with the large professions of which he
set out. In all my experience of public life, 1 never
encountered—indeed there never was a charge more
u nfourided. Unless Judges were to be invested
with an infallibility which, I am sure, the Hon. Gentlem-in
would be little disposed to attribute to them-=how can
any man with a show of reason expect them to be ac-
quainted with farts of which they, of necessity, could have
no knowledge ? What was there o❑ the trial to make
the guilt of Isaac Looker at all doubtful ? On the trial,
when the father was found guilty, no sort came forward—
there was nothing to raise a question, but what related to
the testimony given for the purpose of negativing the asser-
tion of the handwriting. I really do not see that the specu-
lation as to the handwriting ought to have much weight.
He was accused of having written a threatening letter ; and
if that man had bee❑ brought before the Hon. Member, as
he was before the Learned Judge—it being at that time
not known that he had a son at all—could he have divined
that the letter in question was the production of the son ?
and, finally, even when it was suggested that the son, and
not the father, was the guilty person, the question naturally
suggested itself, why was not the son brought up as a wit-
ness on the first trial ? I was aware of the circumstance of
there being some intention of setting up the son as the author
of the letter; for, as prosecuting on behalf of the Crown, I
was given to understand that some such defence would be
brought forward ; but the Learned Judge had no means of
becoming acquainted with the fact ; and then it is most
important that the House should bear in mind that the
guilt of the son by no means established the innocence of
the father. There was a great chance that both of them
might have been concerned in the offences then so com-
mon in that part of the country, and specially charged
in the indictment. What in this case does the Learned
Judge do? he requested the other Judge to try the son,
and with a view to that trial, bills were sect to the Grand
Jury against both, and they found them against the father,
and ignored them as against the son ; the son then came
forward and swore that he was the author of the letter;
he was severely and minutely cross-examined. Mr. Jus-
tice Parke was perfectly satisfied that he spoke the truth;
so were the Jury; and the father was acquitted of that
specific charge, and under the form of the indictment as
then preferred. Now, I want to know what can secure
counts against the possibility of error; if there be means
of completely so securing them, I should gladly learn what
they are, for I believe to most men they will prove per-
fect novelty. In the present state of things, I think I
am entitled to ask, could there have been any means
used more calculated to elicit the truth than those
which were adopted by time Learned Judge in question,
and whose name has been most improperly mentioned
with reference to those transactions.—(Hear hear.) I
confess I cannot look at the conduct of the younger
Looker with as much satisfaction as the Hon. Mem-
ber for Preston seems to regard it. What do we find him
doing ? Writing no less than three threatening letters of
a most sanguinary kind, and we find him so writing them
as to bring his father into extreme peril ; then, when his
father was likely to be transported for the offence of his
son, the son comes forward and says he is the guilty per-
son. This is scarcely so heroic as if being not guilty—
as if being not conscious to himself of any crime—he had
exposed himself to all the consequences of that crime with
which his father stood charged—then, indeed, he might
have some claim to be ranked with those heroes of anti.

quity whose doubtful virtue we know not whether most to
admire or to censure.—(Bear, hear.) Having now gone
through these, three cases, nothing remains for me but a
few general observations. There were tried under the
Special Commissions as many as 1,000 persons, of whom
700 were in Hampshire and Wiltshire. This number
were drafted off from much larger numbers, after re-
peated selections from much greater still, of men who
had committed acts of the grossest outrage. Exclu-
sive of the ether grounds upon which the selections
were made, the accusers were in many cases un-
willing to come forward—they were glad to be spared
the trouble of prosecuting—the Magistrates were
aware that, in some instances, the parties were
seduced into the crimes they had committed—the Grand
Juries, in some cases, threw out the bills—ita other cases
the Counsel abstained from proceeding ; and I can further
state, that in all cases Counsel for the Crown uniformly
brought forward every circumstance favourable to the pri-
soners, and the lenity of tke Judges spared many of them.
In my opinion the Judges were much more remarkable
fir lenity than for the reverse. I am aware that my opinion
upon such a subject can be of no value ; but I think a
consideration of the circumstances to which I adverted,
and the conduct of the Judges in relation to them, will be
held by all impartial men fully to justify the opinion I have
ventured to express.—(Hear.) I beg the House to remark
the situation in which we were placed not three months
ago. Every Member was hearing from his relation& and
his friends, or if not from those, at least from the persons
placed in the care and custody of their property, that neither
life nor property was safe for a single hour; but what was
the change wrought by the simple announcement that the
law was to take its course? The mischief ceased, with a
single exception, to which I shall advert presently. By
that announcement outrages were put an end to. What
was the state of things? Thrashing machines were broken
in every quarter of the country—property and life ceased
to possess any protection. The mob had taken the law
into their own hands ; they proceeded from one crime
to another ; but a firm execution of the laws—indeed the
bare announcement of such an intention, appeared to put an
end to the whole system. One hundred men were capitally
convicted at Winchester, every one of whotn, if the law
were allowed to take its full course, might justly have been
executed. It is the idlest folly to talk of the Government
being under the obligation to recur to first principles on
an emergency like the lute one; the obligation they were
under, and that which they properly discharged, was to
use the powers with which the law and Constitution in-
vested them. Seine thought proper to express great regards
for humanity ; but, be it recollected, that there wa
something of humanity to be exercised towards others, be-
sides the men whose cause the Honourable Member for
Preston had been advocating. It was one of the greatest
errors into which any one could fall, to suppose that the
persons tried and found guilty were poor agricultural
labourers—poor starving creatures. What were the facts ?
A person named Cooper came to the scene of his offences
from a neighbouring county—he had been, it appeared, a
decayed publican, and recently serving as hostler—he,
therefore, was in no respect affected by the state of agri-
cultural distress; from some mysterious motive, the na-
ture of which had never been distinctly ascertained, lie
proceeded in his course of outrage and crime. He hal-
looed the mob against all sorts of machinery, arid of pro-
perty ; and at the head of a mob—that tremendous wea-
pon—proceeded to rob by levying contributions, intimi-
dating every individual whom they encountered—going
frequently in the dead of night, terrifying women and
children, and spreading a system of horror which the
country could no longer endure to proceed with impunity;
and even when they did go to lone houses, where the
guardian of the property happened to be present, there
could be no doubt that if he had resisted their at-
tacks, even to the length of taking away life, the act
would have been perfectly justifiable ; fur there was
not a lawyer in the country who could doubt that
the offences of the mob were of a capital nature.
From bad to worse those proceedings went on,
till the Government could no longer look on without the
deepest culpability. So much for Cooper—the other per-
son was altogether as much the reverse of an agricultural,
ant as far from being affected by the distresses of the
times as was Cooper. He was a carpenter in the receipt of
30s. a week—(Hear}—and he it was who struck down
with a sledge hammer the arm that was raised by a ser-
vant in defence of his master—an arm that, I believe, was
broken by the blow. Those, then, and the others that
were tried, were cases selected from a great number, and
not one was tried that ought to be spared ; and all the
time the papers were teeming with appeals to Government
to spare the lives of those who had not themselves scrupled
to commit crimes which the law had declared to be capital,
is there no mercy but for criminals—when once it was an-
nounced that life might be forfeited for the offences com-
mitted, they ceased ; but then came the demand to spare
the incendiaries. It was said that they ought to be spared,
because they were only incendiaries. Then a set of re-
solutions were prepared, abounding in as much spurious
sentiment as ever distinguished such compositions, ex-
pressing a hope that Government would not proceed, and
stating, that as the offenders had only set fire to some pro-
perty, they ought not to be punished in the Dame

manner and to the same extent as though they had
been guilty of offences against life, or against the per-
sonal safety of individuals.—(Hear.)—l must be per-
mitted to say, that if ever an instance of cant was brought
under the consideration of the House, those resolutions
must be looked on as affording it. I, however, was glad
to perceive that the Hon. Member for Preston did not
degrade himself by pretending to this extravagant degree
of feeling; neither shall I prolong the debate by dwelling
any longer upon that or upon any other topic connected
with those unhappy events ; it is perfectly evident to the
House that a great and alarming evil required to be put
down ; there was a great public evil, and the Government
boldly faced it; it woi put down without military force ;
without any extraordinary enactment disfiguring the Con-
stitution ; and without anything beyond the lawful exer-
eise of constitutional authority. I cannot, then, refrain
From congratulating the Government—l cannot even re-
frail from congratulating myself upon the bumble part I
took in the proceediage.—(The Honourable and Gentleman
was frequent.), and cordially cheered during the his speech.)
Mr. SANDFORD defended the conduct of the Yeo-

manry Cavalry of the County of Somerset, saying that
they were ready in the event of any irritation or discon.
tent manifesting themselves. As to the Hon. Member for
Preston's motion, it should receive from him a most de-
cided negative.
Mr. HUME rose for the purpose of requesting the
_ _

Hon. Member for Preston to withdraw his

(Cries of " No, no, question question, divide, divide.")
—He could have no objection to the House coming to a,
division ; his only wish was to save trouble. 11e must

be allowed to say, that his Hon. Friend had not been
fairly dealt with by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite. The

Right Hon. Secretary seemed to impute to his Hon,

Friend a tone of justification with respect w the unhappy
and criminal persons who had been tried under the Spe-
cial Commission. His Hon. Friend had only spoken of
them as misguided individuals. It was no matter of sur-
prise those poor persons should have strange and erroneous
notions on the subject of machinery, when they were en-
tertained by Members of that House, and by others who
ought to have known better; but all that his Hon. Friend
(lid was to speak of them as he himself had already de-
scribed. Still he thought that the best course would be
for his Hon. Friend to withdraw his motion. However, if'
they did come to a division, he should support his Hon.
Friend.

Mr. PORTMAN begged to say a few words. He re-
joiced that the Hon. Member for Preston had disabused
the public mind on a subject of considerable importance—
namely, the sanction of those lawless proceedings, or ens
tiler the instigation of them by the Hon. Member. A
person went about the country representing himself as
Mr. Hunt's corporal or serjeant, and thence it became uni-
versally believed that he approved of the lawless proceed-
ings referred to. He concluded by denying that the far-
mers were at the bottom of the offences mentioned, or were
in any degree concerned in them, beyond what other classes
in the country were.

Mr. HUNT, in reply, repeated his disclaimer of any ap.
proval, still less instigation, of the lawless proceedings
throughout the country. The persons who believed in his
connection with them were persons who believed in witch-
craft. He denied that he had ever, either by accident or
design, met the mobs who were concerned in those enter.
prizes against the laws. He challenged any Hon. Mem-
ber to show that he had had the remotest connection with
them. Further, there was not one assertion which he
made in his opening speech which it was not in his power
to verify and establish at the bar of that House. He had
received information from the best authority that the pri-
soners in gaol had been entrapped into making confidential
communications to their legal advisers, in the presence of
the gaolers. He had never called those riots revolu- •

tionary; he had never said that there was any disaffec-
tion ; he had merely said there was much dissatisfaction
from extreme distress and want of food. A Gallant Ad-
miral had been rather personal with him, and had talked
a little too much about his blacking, while he would not
retort by speaking of the Gallant Admiral's bilge-water.--
(A laugh.) The Gallant Admiral, who seldom, as Le un-
derstood, rose without amusing the House, had bee❑ flat-
tering enough to speak of him (Mr. Hunt) as a good-
looking man; he regretted that he could nut return the
compliment.—(Great laughter.) As to the riots, he had
never spoken of them as otherwise than disgraceful ;
but there was nothing revolutionary—there wan not a
shot fired. He would call upon those who said other-
wise to state when and where he had given the
slightest sanction, or any countenance whatever to
any such proceedings. The Honourable Member then
proceed to charge upon those who kept wages low
the whole of the disturbances. He commented upon
the evidence in the case of Isaac Looker, observing
upon the ignorance of the Jurors by whom he was tried ;
one of whom said that he concurred in a verdict of guilty
merely because the Judge said it ought to be so. He de-
nied, with respect to the affair at Overton, that he came
forward then for the purpose of settling the wages. He
did no such thing ; his only object was to obtain guarantees
from both parties. The Hight Honourable Secretary had
said that even that was illegal. He had expected misre-
presentations from other quarters, but he confessed it
did surprise him to hear it coming from that.—(Cries of
question, question, and some coughing.)—lie came into
that House prepared to encounter some coughing; but if
lie were to he coughed down, he was determined to let the
people of England know, that if any man were to raise
his voice on behalf of the poor and oppressed people of
the country, he might reckon upon being coughed down.
—(Cries of no, no.)—He stood forward merely as the
advocate of very unfortunate persons; but who that
ever heard him speak upon the subject did not hear
him denounce the proceedings of those unhappy indi-
viduals as illegal and criminal ? He was not sufficiently
acquainted with the forms of the House to know best how
to dispose of his 'motion. He had been advised by friends
near him to withdraw it.—(Cries of Ns, no; divide, di-
vide.)—He had no objection to divide, even if he divided
alone ; and when he went down to the silent tomb—at
the latest hour of his life, he should remember the course
he pursued that night with satisfaction, as an act of hu-

inanity for the relief of men who had a strong claim for
lenity. He had no other motive but that of humanity,
and that not a false humanity. He had been advised to
withdraw his motion ; but he left the matter entirely in
the hands of the House, to do with it as they thought pro-
per—either to divide or allow the motion to be withdrawn.

Mr. BENETT briefly explained, after which the House
divided :
For the motion
Against it

Majority -
ARREST FOR DEBT.

t).(10
. --267.

Mr. HUME moved for returns showing the number
of warrants granted for debt, whether on Mesne Process
or on Writs of Execution, in the names of the Sheriffs of
London and Middlesex, or of the Sheriff of Surrey, during
the year 1830. Also the number of prisoners in custody
in the King's Bench, the Fleet, Whitecross-street, the
Marshalsea, and Hoisemonger-lane, distinguishing those
under Mesne Process, Judgment, or Costs of Suit, during
the same year ; and also the.--number in custody on the
Ist of January, 1031. Also the number of persons dur-
ing the same year committed to Whitecross-street and
Horsemonger-lane by the Court of Requests.
Mr. H. Twiss, Mr. Alderman Waithrnan, Mr. Alder-
man Wood, and Mr. Warburton said a few words on the
subject ; after which

Lord ALTHORP observed, that though Ilf?. had last
Session given notice of a motion on this sulijeet, the si-
tuation in which he was at present precluded his taking
any steps in it ; though certainly he l'uought that there
was room for great improvements in the law as it now
stood, with respect to arrests, and tho powers of the
Courts of Requests.

The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. HUME moved fur a return showing the number
of persons enrolled to serve in the militia during the pre-
sent year, and the number of those exempt in each county.
He maintained that the militia system %vac, in his opinion,
altogether bad ; for it fell too heavily on the poor, and
riot heavy enough on the rich. He f.t least thought that
every man who was called on to serve in the militia should
have a right to vote for Members of Parliament.
Mr. HUNT concurred in this sentiment; and said, that
if the new measure of Reform, which was to be introduced
did not give a vote to every man who was liable to serve
in the militia, he should move, as an amendment, that
they should at least be exempt from the payment of *axes.
—(A laugh.)
Lord ALTHORP said, that the return moved for by
the Hon. Gentleman could not, at all events, be made till
,he ballots were returned, and even then he doubted whe-
:her they could he made.—The motion was then agreed to.

IRELAND.—RULES OF THE HOUSE.
O'GORMAN 'MAHON said, that in rising to make his
motion relative to the proclamation that had been issued in
Ireland, he had to request the indulgence of the House for
what he knew must be an unsavoury subject to it.—(A
laugh.).—.Yes; he knew that the question must be unsa-
voury, because—(Another laugh)--. He thanked the
Hen. Member for Limerick (Mr. S. Rice) for his sneer—
it came exceedingly well from him ; but (continued the
Hon. Gentleman) it shall he remembered to him—(Order,
order)—it shall be remembered to him, that from the
Treasury Bench.—(Loud cries of " Order.")
The SPEAKER rose, but O'GORMAN MAHON still re-
mained standing.
The SPEAKER,WiII the Hon. Member pleat() to

take his seat ?_(O'Gorman Mahon sat down.) I rose to
interrupt what I conceived, if persevered in, would be dis-
orderly.
O'GORMAN MATION—I am but new to the House,
and I am therefore obliged whenever any senior Member is
pleased to offer me his advice; but if —, and you
Mr. SPEAKER—Admit that you rose in anticipation
to answer that which was unmeaning till it was heard
through.
Sir C. WETHERELL rose to order, and said—Sir,
after the masterly manner in which you have announced
the rule of order—(Cheers)—after the manner in which
you have avoided, because you hoped that an intimation
would be sufficient—after the manner in which you have
avoided all severity and harshness of manner, and when
you have by your manner, responded to the feelings of the
whole House—l am surprised that that intimation has not
had the effect.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") But if it
has not, you, Sir, will again he require.' by the House to
rise from that chair to secure its order.—(Loud cheering.)
O'GORMAN MAHON—Sir, the Hon. Member for
Boroughbridge has called on you to rise from that chair.._
(Cries of " No, no.) He did ! And now, stand for-
ward any gentleman who says he did not.—(Loufl cries of
" Order, order.")
The SPE AKER—I am sure the Hon. Member will
feel, on reflection, that when I attempt to interrupt the
course of any speech, I endeavour to do it in a manner of
the greatest lenity—(Loud cheering from all sides of the
House)—at the same time that I believe it to be consistent
with the full discharge of my duty.—(Hear, hear.) The
Hon. Member will, with an exception to what I trust is
the general feeling of this House—that I do not interfere
sinless I am satisfied that what I interrupt will be out of
order ; and however I may abstain from exercising that
duty in strong terms, I do it not only from a hope, but
from a belief, that the hint will be taken, and that 'shall
not be called on to express the rules of the House in
stronger tersus.—(Loud cluering.)
O'GORMAN MAHON—Sir, I thank you ; I thank
you; for you do not contradict what I assert. Indeed, you
confirmed what I said, by abstaining, when you rose, from
contradicting me when you were called on to do so.—(A
cry of " No, no.") I thank you for your "No ;" hut
why is it repeated in this way; and why does not some
individual gentleman stand up and say it? Had the
Speaker hinted at what the Hon. Member for Borough-
bridge has called on him to rise for and announce as a

breach of order? The Hon. Member for I3oroughbridge
however, has, with the tact and talents peculiar to his pro-
fession—and considering to what profession he belongs it
is not wonderful that he is able to pervert the truth.--
(Cries of " Order," and " Question.")--I thank you for
your " Question."
The SPEAKER--I cannot but be persuaded that the
Hon. Member will, on reflection, thank me for my inter-
ference. He is now disorderly on two grounds; and if he
calls on me I will tell him how. In the first place, what
he is now submitting to the House is not to the question ;
and, in the next place, in attributing wilful and profes-
sional perversion to any Member, he is attributing a mo-
tive which is disorderly at all times.
O'GORMAN MAHON—WeII, I am now proscribed
from touching the Hon. Member for Boroughbridge any
further. But I may meet him again elsewhere.—(Loud
cries of " Order, ceder.") Ain I out of order in addressing
myself to the Speaker ? It now appears that, after being
interrupted six or eight times, you have decided that I am
out of order for speaking of the Hon. }Member for Bo-
roughbridge, for speaking of the perversion which I con-
sider as belonging to his profession. If I had been out of
order before, would you ❑ot have told me of it. I now
tell the House that you are my Counsel, and you have
given testimony that I was not out of order.
Mr. SPEAKER—I am sure the lion. Member must
feel, or, if not, I at least hope that the rest of the House
will feel—(The loud cheering from all sides of the House
prevented our catching the conclusion of the sentence.) I
claim nothing for myself personally; but I do claim re-
spect for the dignity of the Chair.—(Continued cheers.)
And I now tell the Hon. Member that he was out of order
on both occasions; and this House has never been in the
habit of submitting to the manner in which he has been
pleased to address the House—(Great cheering)—without
giving full notice to the Member, that if he is in error ow-
ing to a mistake he may retrace his steps ; but if he per-
sist, that the Speaker may, in the exercise of his duty, call
him by his name, so that he may be brought before the
House, and then make such explanation as he may think
best.—(Cheers.)
A pause here took place.
The SPEAKER—Has the Hon. Member any motion
to make?

O'GORMAN MAHON—lndeed I have ; and 1 in-
tend to speak if I may be permitied : but after the threat
that has been used and the sentiments expressed as to the
manner in which 1 have addressed the House, I cannot go
on. If I have been guilty of any breach of rule, or even
of any discourteous phrase, then 1 think that tha. displea-
sure of the House should fall hot and heavy on me. But if
not, I should think that you do not (and I am not addres-
sing myself to you in particular, because I know you are
the head of this House, and I have personally experienced
every species of kindness and courtesy from you)—(Cries
of " Question ! Question !" " Order ! Order !") You
shall have " Question" by and by ; but if you think to
induce me to commit myself, you are mistaken ; for to the
question I will not go, for I view myself as arraigned at
your bar, and either I am in a state of delinquency at that
bar, or I am within the circle of the privileges of the
House. I wish to know which ? If lam a criminal at
the bar,' I must not address the House ; and if not, I have
again, how I have been guilty of any via..
aI
asrigkhatgtaoinadadnrdess it. And, on the part of my constituents,
lation or breach of rule ? You have declared that I have
not. I bow to the breach as to the Boroughbrielge case
—I mean about the Member of the borough ; but I say I
committed no breach before that. lam sorry that any
circumstances have induced the House to forget what is
due to itself (no matter how it was brought about), and
to attempt to deny any Member his privilege because he
addresses himself to any point. When I was interrupted
of what I was speaking ?—I was speaking of that which
ench ?—to my Hon.
subjected toe to an interruption from the Minist,rial
Bench. Was I out of order, when I alluded to an indi-
vidualrFurpiet
riiodn:ll?beouti
Ib
the ra:,oaens thatloo only
lry so far
right
so
call him
so after this inter-
ruption that I
had proceeded: and
am I wrong in saying that the interruption was not such
as it ought to be? Have I not a right, too, to ally that
t'sle Hon. Member for Limerick was the very last man
that should have interrupted me ? 1 shall say the same
again and again. You have confirmed it, and the whole
House has confirmed it; and the Hon. Member for
aLsi Limerick willcfekroberof
find, though he is antecedent to me
the
House, that this interruption was
full hot and heavy on him. 1 say then again, that I was
not out of order ; and your shouts from the other end of
the House only allowed, that what I called unsavoury was
exceedingly unwelcome to you. I repeat then, that I was
not in breach of order.—(A cry of " Order, order.")—
You see with what amenity anti gentleness I wait for you
to respond to the cry that they are raising. They cry
" Order :" I say lam not out of order. And slow, Sir,
I will come to the question. The Hon. Gentleman then
tentior, of the House to the state in which Ireland was,
proceeded to state, that he was desirous of calling the at

what relation Ireland was to view the Admi-
nistration
an'itok in
which existed here—whether as friend or foe.
And in for returns, he would admit that he only
used it as a pretext for arriving at information which was
of the highest interest to that country. What he might
say 'night not be of much consequence; but the response
of the Ministry would be of the greatest importance
to Ireland. At the time he left Ireland the roads were
covered with snow, and all communication was cut off
with the interor of the country; but its condition could
not be mist ,ken—its people were suffering the extremity
ofdistress—they were suffering unresistingly ; but that
could not continue ; and he now came to the question
which lie would have reached long before, had he not been
interrupted by the Hon. Aletnber for Boroughbridge (sir
C. Wetherell.) What did they mean to do with Ireland ?
What course did they mean to pursue? Did they mean
to cut the string of the bow which was already pulled so
tight? Ireland wished to have a separate Legislature—
she was determined to have it ; and he now rose to ask
that House and the Government how they were disposed
to act ? Whether they would grant the separation as a
measure of conciliation, or whether they were disposed to
elreland in blood and rapine ? They had that night
ieaerpd
of the proceedings of the English, their own sitcoun-
trymen. They heard of the buntings and destroyings,
and machine breakings of England, under the oppression
of tithes and taxes, and yet Ireland, under much greater
afflictions of that description, had shed no blood, committed
no destruction, broke no machines—indeed she bad none.
laugh.)—Di(l they deny that the English had bro-
ken machines on account of the tithes ? If they did, then
what did they do it for? If it was not on account of the
tithes, or if they had no provocation, then their own Eng-
lish were a people much more barbarous and bloodthirsty
than the Irish. But it was on that account they com-
mitted outrages, and yet gracious God, not a man was
found to walk out of that House in their favour except the
member for Louth and himself. Gracious God !
Mr. HUGHES HUGHES, or, as some said, Mr.
PERCEVAL, rose to order. He objected to the frequent
use of the name of the Deity, in which the Hon. Member
ma indulging. It was highly offensive to the feelings of

those who could not mention that name but with reve-
rence and devotion.—(ll,al.,
The SPEAKER was quite satisfied that the Hon.
Member would not make use of any language which could
be offensive to the most delicate feelings of any Hon. Mem-
bers on such subjects.
O'GORMAN AIAIION said he could not but respect,
as it deserved, the sanctimonious sentiments of the Hon.
Member. He had been educated at a College of Jesuits,
and he could not be ignorant of the proper use of the name
of God.—(A laugh.)—He fully concurred in the pro-
priety of the Hon. Member's sentiments, and he also fulls
concurred in the proposal for a fast.—(Hear.)—living
said thus much in concurrence with the Hon. Gentleman's
feeling of sanctity, if the Hon. Gentleman would have
the goodness to restore him to the place in his speech
where that interruptio❑ took place, lie should feel much
obliged to him —(A general laugh.)—Nothing at all
times gave him more pleasure than to promote tie
good humour and conviviality of the House, and
he was happy to do so on this occasion. No people
on earth enjoyed pleasure and good humour more
tha❑ his countrymen, but, alas ! mirth was at present
unknown to them, and asery and famine stalked
over the land. At a meeting where two Magistrates
were present, and took depositions of the facts on oath, it
was sworn that in the parish of Newport, in the county of
Mayo, there were 3,031 persons without food, raiment,
or fuel. The Members of that House talked of paying
seven shillings a week to their labourers to afford them one
good meal a day ; but there were 3,031 human beings
who would be glad of twopence a day to live on—human
beings who had no wheat, bread was unknown to them—
who never tasted flesh meat—who wished but for a po.
tatoe and salt ; and yet there they were, since the 10th of
January, without a particle to sustain them.—(A laugh,
and hear, hear.)—Before the Ist of March, he was as-
sured, there would be 2,000 inure in the same condition,
while the population of his county (Clare) was nearly in a
condition as destitute. He now came to the real question.
He had prophesied to them, months ago, that the time
would soon come when they must make up their minds to
a separation. Thee time was now come; and if they
were disposed to keep up the connection at all, they must
have recourse to the only means through which it could
be preserved—they must determine between a total re-
peal and the necessity of holding their sittings alternately
in the metropolis of each kingdom.—(A laugh. )—lle al-
most regretted he had not bee❑ born pugnacious, that he
might answer that cheer and the gesture which accom-
panied it as it required. Ireland was at that moment
covered with snow. lie did not mean to say they could
immediately better the condition of those who were
buried under four or five feet of snow.—(A laugh.)—
The people of Ireland did not accuse England of being the
cause of the snow, but they accused them of indifference
to their sufferings ; and he, as one of those who hearth it
often asserted in that house that Ireland was identified
with England, called on them, for the sake of their mu-
tual interest to alleviate those sufferings. Before the end
of that Session there would be twenty County Members
advocating the repeal of the Union, and he implored
theta, while they yet could in safety, to grant that sepa-
ration, which could not long be resisted. The Irish loved
the English as their brethren. They did not, as it had
been threatened elsewhere, wish to see French bayonets
carried in steam-boats to Ireland, to effect the destruction
of English supremacy ; but they implored England to ire
wise, and to yield in time, lest such a catastrophe might
take place. England had been standing for centuries on
the back of Ireland ; but if she permitted the connectio❑
to be rudely severed, she would be reduced to her proper
dimensions—she would be left to her own resources, and
she would feel the iron heel standing on the cold sward.
If England failed to take the advice of those who knew
best the sentiments of the people of Ireland, he could tell
her that her controul over Ireland has gone for ever. By
Him who made the world, Ireland would be separated
from England, and cease to be her supporter. He called
on them, therefore, to take warning, to take time by the
forelock, and to be wise while it was in their power.
He felt that in pursuing the course which his conscience
and his duty dictated, that he was lowering himself
much in the opinion of all around him. He knew
when they left that House, they would call him per-
tinacious, impudent, and obtrusive ; but his duty to his
country called on him to sacrifice all minor considerations,
and to warn England of the consequences of the course
she was pursuing. Sir Henry Hardinge (he begged par-
don, the late Secretary for Ireland) had, he confessed,
acted rightly and consistently in putting down an attempt
to revive the ancient Association. That was honest,
and honourable, and consistent with the feeling of his
Government; and he (O'Gorman Mahon) would have
supported it; but the law under which the proclamations
were issued was stigmatized as infamous by the men now
in power, and yet they now go much farther, and adopt
measures still more arbitrary—and, he might add, in-
famous. Finding, then, that these men were persecuting
the man who was the real friend of Ireland, and that they
were, by illegal prosecutions, driving him to a dungeon,
could he avoid supporting him? He had been absent in
Belgium, but when he returned and heard these things,
Ire asked himself was this a fitting course for it liberal
Whig Administration ? He came to England to support
them—not because they were Peter, Jack, or Tom—but
because he approved of their principles; and although he
disapproved of their Civil List, he would support them as
long as he could. When he found officers dragging the
friend of his country to prison, he could not, however,
avoid opposing those who had recourse to such measures.
He could not believe that a Chief Magistrate of such a
country as Ireland would have authorised a common catch-
pole to rush into the house of a gentleman, of whom no
apprehension could be entertained that he would run away.
Common courtesy between Magistrates required a very
opposite line of conduct. Was it possible that such a
man—the favourite of his country, the representative of a
county—should have such an indignity perpetrated upon
him ? But passing by the insult, where was lie now? Why
was he not in his place in that House? Where were the
petitions which had been entrusted to him by his consti-
tuents ? Why was he unable to present them ? Because
he had been caught and detained by a quibble of law, and
not by the Constitution. Why the present Lord High
Chancellor of England had declared that the law was a
bad law ; that it was a violation of the Constitution. The
Lord Chancellor had said this—a man of talent and learn-

ing. But where were the Whigs? Why did they not
opEpe the execution of such a law? How stood the
question now ? The repeal of the Union was not popular
in this country, but it was all popular in Ireland. It was
popular among 8,000,000 of people; all classes of men
were there favourable to it. He meant the occupiers of
the soil ; he did not mean the absentees ; he did not mean
the Irish residents in Florence and Verona ; he did not
mean those who escaped from all the annoyances of living
in their own country : be meant the occupiers of the soil,
who were unanimous in favour of the repeal. In Ros-
common a unanimous resolution had been passed, to the
effect that the Legislatuse of England was not a fit Legis-
lature for Ireland. The same was done in Clare; the
earns in Meath; the same in Sligo. Was a statement MI
such facts as these to be put down by a cry of " Order !"
from the Hon. and Learned Member for Boroughlnidge ?
He would have a ❑umber of placards printed in praise of
order, with the head of the lion. and Learned Member
placed at the top of them, and send them over to Ireland
for the amusement of his countrymen. He called upon
the House to take a decided step. It would be im-
possible any longer to bully. Irishmen were a kind
of animal easily guided by kindness; but when the
spur was applied to them, they were not always dis-
posed to lie down quietly. He called upon the House
to take a decided step. Here was a bad law ; here
was an unconstitutional law. Ireland was left without

any Constitution at all. No violence, no outrage, no
threats, no bullying, no swaggering would do any good.
Had Englishmen any confidence in Earl Grey ? He
begged pardon, bail they any confidence in their Premier
What were that Noble Lord's principles with tespixt to
the Union? They were on record. The Noble Lord had

been one of its most violent opponents. "It," exclaimed
the Noble Lord, at the time the subject was under discus-
sion—" if, the Union between Great Britain and Ireland
take place, I predict that it can never la t; it must be
abrogated and repealed." Let thou who had friendship
or affection fur the Noble Lord realize his piuphecy. It
must be realized. Look at the first legal officer of Ireland.
Look at Lord Plunkett. Lord Plunkett, when the Union

was proposed, declared that it was a measure which hi

could- -
never sanction, that it would be most prejudicial, and
then bursting into enthusiasm, added, " I will take my
son, like Hannibal, to the altar of his country, and make
him swear eternal hostility to the advocates of the Union.'

Yet the Hon. and Learned Member for Boroughbridge
must interrupt him, because he was anxious to communi-

cate to the House as much information aw possible on this
most important subject. The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man could not have shown more warmth, had he ap-
proached him, and disarranged the handsome habiliments
in which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman delighted to
he clad. Then, indeed, there might have been a scene
like one in Shakspeare ; and then the Hon. and Learned

Gentleman might indeed have called " Order !" Before
whom had the Hon. Member for Waterford been taken ?

Before Judge Jebb, who had formerly declared his hostility
to the Union. if that Learned Person had changed his
opinion, it was only because the ermine sat on his shoul-
der. Look at Bush Lot* at that man of eminent to-,

lent ! What did he gay ? Did he declare that the Union
was a benefichil measure? Quite the contrary. All men of
talent in Ireland were friendly to the repeal of the Union;
Ind yet the wish fur the repeal was chatecterised as " The
madness of those ignorant Irish fellows." It was for-
merly suggested, that at least Parliament should sit alter-
nately in the capitals of the two kinedotas. That propo-
sition might at one time have succeeded. But it would
not do now. Even the Hon. Member for Waterlord
could not prevail upon the Irish people to allow that plan
to be substituted for a repeal of the Union, tie people of
Ireland would hurl him from his height of popularity, and
trample upon Lim as a traitor. The House did not appear
to be aware sf the feeling ( f Ireland upon this subject.
He would now tell them, for he hail permisson to do so—
that be had himself been for eeven years and a hai a
Member of a secret Society in Ireland, composed of Pro-
testants and Presbyterians, whose only object was to ob-
tain a Repeal of the Union. Hr knew that in making
this avowal he was on his way to tin, Tower. II he hal
not avowed this fact in the Housa before, it was because
he wished to see what the. House were doing, ate! beciuse
he had not received permission to make the disclosure.
The Satiety was now, however, dissolved. As soon as they
found that the strong arm of power was raised against
the Hon. Member fir Waterford, they determined to declare
themselves openly, and to identify their cause with his. et,
Ireland there was now no Constitution. The last time
lie was called upon to perform a legal function in a Court
of Justice in that country, he !Ontod the door barred.
What would bo said if such a proeeeding were to take
place with reference to any of the Courts in Westminster
11111 ? Here the House of Commons could safely assemble :
in Ireland they could nor. In England the King himself could
not come and disperse them. But if they were in Ireland,
a deputy's deputy, sub-deputy, a baboon with a piece of
thirty parchment, could enter, and say, " Gentlemen of the
House of Commons, walk out ;" and if in fourteen
minutes they did not obey the mandate, three months'
imprisonment would be the lot of every one of them. He
hoped his Majesty's Government would be able to dis-
connect themselves from the proceedings which had taken
place in Ireland ; that the Hon. Member for Waterford
would _be sent to his place in that House, and that no
further proceeding would be bad upon a law which they
had themselves declared unconstitteional. If, on the con-
trary, they should persevere—if they should ranch that Hon.
Member to a dungeon, they would send seven millions of
Irish hearts to the sante dungeon with him ; and then God
help the connection between the two countries. Ue had now
done; and, with the exception of the Hon. and Learned
Member for Boroughhridge, he begged to express his
thanks to tke House for the attention with which they
bad listened to him. The Hon. Gentleman concluded a
speech, of which we have been able to give but a slight
outline, by moving, " That there he laid before the House
copies of the proclamations issued by the Lord Lieutenant
of Ireland since the passing of the Act against unlawful
assemblies ; and a copy of a letter of the present Chief
Secretary to the Magistrates of Ireland."

Lord ALTHORP said that he rose very unwillingly,
but, after the speech which had been made by the Hon.
Member for Clare, it was impossible for him nut to enter
at some length into the conduct of his Majesty's Govern-
ment with respect to Ireland. He regretted that the
lion. Gentleman had made his motion in the absence of
his Right Hon. Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland, as
also in the absence of the lion. Member for the county of
Waterford; because it was impossible for him (Lord Al-
thorp), in his statement, not to allude to the conduct of
the Hon. Member for Waterford in a way in which he
was sorry to allude to the conduct of any gentleman
in his absence, and especially a gentleman in the situa-
tion in which that Honourable Member was at present
placed.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He had suggested to the
Hon. Member for Clare, in private, that if he would
move for the papers in qutstien, without making any ob-
servation, this might be avoided. The Hon. Member,
however (and he did not mean to impute to him any blame
on the subject), thought that it was his duty to make the
statement which he had just made ; and he (Lord Al-
thorp) told him that, in that case, he should feel it neces-
sary t• make a counter-statement in defence of the Go-
vernment. The state of the case in Ireland was briefly
this :—The Hon. Member for Waterford was exciting so
touch discontent, which he called agitation, that notwith-
standing he cautiously terminated every speech, how-
ever inflammatory, with a recommendation of obedience
to the law, it was evidently tending to insurrection
and rebellion.—(Loud and general shouts of hear,
hear, with intermingled shouts as loud from O'Gorman
Mahon of "No, no.")—And what was the avowed
object of the agitation excited by the Hon. Member
for Waterford ? To obtain the repeal of the Union.
Now he (Lord Althorp) asked the House if it was not
absolutely the duty of his Majesty's Govermnent to pre-
vent an agitation, having en object in view which must
lead to the separation of the two countries? - (Hear.) 'Who
was there could conceive it possible that one Legislature
could sit in England and another Legislature sit in Ireland,
and that the two countries could long remain united ?
(Hear, hear.) The experiment had been tried. Let the
House recollect the difference of opinion that existed be-
tween the two Legislatures of England and Ireland in the
year 1783. Was it not a matter of notoriety, that if the
malady of George 111. had continued, the Government of
Ireland would have been in the hands of one set of polio
tical individuals, and the Government of England in the
hands of another set? He admitted that no such diffe-
rence had since taken place. But would the Hon. Mem-
ber for Clare wish to see such Parliaments in Ireland as
those which had since been there? Would he wish for a
repetition of such scenes as those of 1797 and 1795 ? The
lion. Gentlemen talked of deluging Ireland with blood—
what did the Irish Parliaments do?—(Hear.) He (Lord
A.) was, therefore, quite at a loss to conjecture whence
the benefit was to proceed from the Repeal of the Union;
which the friends of the Repeal expected from it. Seeing
this, and seeing the agitation which was excited for the
purpose of procuring the Repeal, it was manifestly the duty
of Government to apply every meana in their; power for
suppressing that agitation. He by no means intended to
say that the only policy which his Majesty's Government in
Ireland ought to pursue was to suppress the agitation
merely by force. The wise policy was, while they firmly
suppressed that violent and seditious conduct which tended
to insurrection and rebellion, by measures of conciliation
and kindness to show the people of Ireland that there was
every possible disposition to attend to and retrieve their
grievances.—(Hear, bear, bear.) This was the policy
which his Majesty's Government had resolved to adopt.
They were determined to use their utmost exertions to resist
the designs of the agitators: but, at the same time, by
giving employment to the people of Ireland, by repealing
such laws as were obnoxious to them, and by other mea-
sures of a similar character, to do all they could to conci-
liate their affections.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped and trusted
that the advocates of the Repeal of the Union would never
succeed in the attainment of their object. Knowing, as he
did, the feelings and the spirit of his countrymen, and of
those of the Hon. Gentleman, he could hardly conceive
the possibility of their obtaining that object except by civil
war. No man held civil war in greater detestation than
himself; but even that be should prefer to the dismember.
ment and destruction of the empire.—(Loud and long_
continued shouts of hear, hear.)
Mr. LEADER disclaimed ever having had any con-
nection with any political society. The lion. Member
for Clare had asserted that the people of Ireland were unani-
mous in their determination to obtain the repeal of the
Union by force.—(O'Gorman Mahon denied having so
expressed himself. ) lie had himself heard the Hon. Mem-
ber say that the time for deliberation was past, and that
the people of Ireland were determined upon the accom-
plishment of their object. It had happened to hint (Mr.
Leader) to have travelled through a great part of Ireland,
during the recess. Though a Protestant, he bad not been
afraid to face thirty thousand Catholic constituents, and tr
account for hit conduct to them. He had 'told them, in
looking at the question of the Repeal of the Union, to
consider the circumstances on both sides ; and to remember
that they had at present the British market—the privilege
of trading to the British colonies—the prospect of an open-
ing to the East India trade, and almost a certainty of a
Parliamentary Reform;
htehisetdcho):nsl:
teoilf.tetalfoel
nlr etthste,l:sefa ttbhteel eleyifinoet:ogbflyretaollitio..
en-
deavourdaplt:t:oeflileviei loftl'o'l'eernepa Icr:eoti:cteaoylireate'dito:l)eltd'—i practical benefits for Ireland ; and that
if he could he would then consider what he had to do,
and resign his trust into their hands. What was the con-
sequence ? Why, that he, a Protestant gentleman, re-
ceived front 30,000 Catholics a unanimous vote of confi-
dence in hint.—( Hear.) With respect to Mr. O'Connell,
he thought it was improper, after the intimation given by
the Noble Lord, in the lion. Member for Clare to bring
forward the presosst motion ; but it was a question of great
interest-_..a question involving several legal distinc-
tions—.a question involving stve.al constitutional rights..
involving the construction of an Act of Parliament ; and
the result, therefore, be it which way it might, must be
arrived at with difficulty. Ile was sorry, tinder the cir-
cumstances, that the subject had been brought forward.
ilidee kar,nefrwomthat there
O'Gorman
ser
viselidlicisono.u;_enuts in lrel
utbealasoutl.kn—But
-a
(andles
there was an ob-etvation of Earl Grey and of Mr. F!is: ;

he had heard it in both Houses of Parliament on variou♦
occasions), he knew, that wherever great di.euntent",
existed, the presumption war, that the Government Wsas
to blame. He thought it was his duty tq call the atten,

1 t4o's
IA(
a to tte"' ,rtleso-,,°°le Lord n,
cobbett "",,,11,;14 Merit the s
was, beea:fteas the las
d talked pit to interfere
hire, tor
f f 6 the Corn
31r. P`" et fort 11'' the pea San
,„,t willtun we should sit
Jo it moat ItCuieli the hibo
, for abou 44 been
theref"ue; c Rcti•
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tributrulit Ctilltriu YORKE
and to o,ooa th.°4Be, after tl
he Hon. r Ate', side, and
Teat P°sver lot what! replied it
his Pess"tb'e rkttrerd, argurnt
niself for retie attaek.--(1.
lirbe 'e pa •
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e there also
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)f the tele l'ho send
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creed the°Pooittqh;r,e'ton wool
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h not
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sited by ritflZ(l.ao.gt nee a se
ripe for PrNio hßu
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t they 10,1`i: the Tiber
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,
have v`,- tkilt of -b° attentive
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tion of Parliament to the miens of relieving these discon-
tents ; but he was willing to make allowance for a Go-
vernment newly installed in office, and willing to allow it
time to exercise its judgment ; time to consider measures
of relief. He admired as much as any man the chivalrous
soldier who was at the head of the Government in Ireland,
and he thought, when that Nobleman came to reflect,
be would regret that be had placed himself in
collision with the people. He regretted that the
Viceroy had thought it necessary to issue a Proclama-
tirn, forbidding the meeting of the Trades when they
wished to congratulate the lion. Member for Waterford
(Mr. O'Connell,) mho bad assiduously attended to his dir-
ties in that House till Christmas Eve, and who was highly
honoured by his countrymen ; he did regret that the
Viceroy had thought it necessary to issue a Proclamation
forbidding the Meeting of the Trades to welcome Mr.
O'Connell on his arrival at Dublin. Ile must regret that
conduct. It was not unworthy of a Government, it was
neither derogatory to its dignity, nor injurious to its
power, to endeavour to temper its zeal, to maintain order
and obedience with discretion. In conclusion, the Hon.
Member declared that Ireland was not prepared nor willing
to risk a civil war for the sake of severing the Union.
He had lately been amongst the people of Ireland, and
be was authorised, he was sure, in saying, that there was
in that country a universal disclaimer of any desire to
appeal to force to procure the separation of the two
countries.
Sir R. PEEL regretted very much that a discussion bad
been brought on which would have been much better re-
served ; but as the necessity had been imposed on him to
take part in that which he could have gladly avoided, in
the absence of the Hon. Member for Waterford, whose
character was involved, and whose situation was concerned
in the question then agitated ; but since the time was come
for discussion, it became every man who took a lead in the
discussions of that House to declare that he had irrevocably
made up his mind to stand by the Executive Government,
and maintain the legislative union between the two coun-
tries at all hazards.—(Cheers.)—This was that domestic
concern which was now of paramount importance. He
should be ashamed of himself if he did not cast into utter
oblivion all party political feelings which might have existed
between himself and the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite ;
he should be ashamed of himself if he did not cast them
aside, and without hesitation express a steady determina-
tion, by all the means in his power, to support the King's
Government in all extremities of maintaining inviolate the
union with Ireland. He would support them in their con
duct, and should they make any little slips, and he did not
say that they had made any, he would put the best con-
struction on their conduct, and give them credit for their
good intention, should they be driven to any harsh measures
to meet the evasions and artifices of the declaration of the
Honourable Member for Waterford.—(Hear, hear, hr ar.)
The House could well conceive the difficulty under which
the declarations of that Honouraable Member 'laced the
Ministers; but it was the duty of the Government, even
by risking the extremities of civil war, to prevent the dis-
memberment of the empire. If the Union with Ireland
were severed, if the feelings of independence were en•
couraged in Ireland, why not in Scotland, why not in
Wales, and why not break up the empire altogether? It
was to him perfectly clear, that after the Union was dis-
solved, the empire could not be preserved. That was ne-
cessary to preserve the empire. If there was a difficulty
in maintaining this Union—if Government were, as it
ought to be, resolved to maintain it, the Government
would be to blame if it did not first employ every legal
means, however severe, every authority it had received
from Parliament, however they might have blamed the
giving that authority. The Government, he said, would
be highly blameable if it did not employ every legal and
authorised means in order to avoid the necessity of employ-
ing more dangerous methods. If the laws were unable to
stay the progress of those who desired the repeal of the
Union, still the Government would be highly to blame
should it afterwards dye the scaffold, or the plains of Ire-
land with blood, if it did not first try all the existing autho-
rity of the laws. The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last depre-
cated the Proclamation which had prevented the meeting of
the trades; but that meeting must not be taken by it-
self. The Hon. Member must conjoin it with the declara-
tions made by the Hon. Member for Waterford, who bad
signified Lis fixed intention to try the question of enforcing
the Proclamation, and who had distinctly declared, that
when the opportunity came physical force should be em-
ployed to sever the Union. The Government had no
alternative, and it was mercy as well as good policy to re-
solve by law to interdict the first meeting of the people.—
The Noble Lord had referred to the Constitution of Ire-
land between 1782 and 1800, but he called on the House
not to deceive themselves by supposing that, by the repeal
of the Union now, they could place the two countries in
the same situation as they were in before 1800. It was
not after the Union that the two countries could be placed
in the same situation as if no Union bad taken place.—
After a divorce the feelings were not the same as before
marriage. Oh, Sir ! exclaimed the Right Hon. Baronet,
let us not deceive ourselves—very different will be the feel-
ings—bitter animosity and hatred will succeed ; there will
arise different feelings as to religion ; the country will
be separated into hostile and intolerent factions,—
(" No, no !" from O'Gorman Mahon.) Both he and
the Hon. Member for Clare were then speaking of fu-
turity, and it b. came them to speak with becom-
ing diffidence of the fallibility of human judgment; but he
certainly never held more confidence in any opinion than
he did in the opinion that, if the Union were dissolved,
such scenes as he mentioned would be realised. If the
Union were dissolved, they would have many of those
secret societies, of which he had heard for the first time
last night.—(Elear, bear ! order, order.)—lie did not
certainly suppose that the great body of the Catholics had
been united to obtain the repeal of the Union, but to obtain
their civil rights and religious freedom ; but he did know
that the great body of the Catholics, who had obtained
their wishes, had resolved to preserve their faith, and pre-
serve that tranquillity and that freedom they had obtained.
It was not religious differences that now disturbed
Ireland—it was not the want of any political rights ;
but the had example of Paris and Brussels acting on
the excitability of a generous people, which had pro-
duced the present unfortunate state of Ireland. He did
not look to any other means for restoring tranquillity,
than the gradual return of the reason of the people.
He did not wish to revive religious animosities
or to embody again the Orangemen. That would
be a bitter sacrifice : but be relied on the re-
turning good sense of the great body of the Catholics. He
was certain that after the lapse of a short time, when reason
should have returned, that they would see the folly of their
madness—and it was madness if ever a nation could be
mad—that it was madness to attempt to sever the
Union. Let them only look at the depreciation it
would occasion in the value of all property. Let them
remember, too, that England could never, and would never,
but at the last extremity, consent to the repeal of the
Union. Let them remember, that if they could succeed
after a twenty years' contest, what they would make of
their country—a great moral wilderness, in which
every bad passion and every crime would flourish and
ripen. With these feelings he declared that it was the
interest of both countries to remain united. His should
listen with favour to any priliposals of a conciliatory na-
ture coming from the Noble Lord ; but they must be pro-
posals for doing justice to all parties ; but the Noble Lord
must not attempt to patch up tranquillity and peace by
giving a triumph to any party. lie considered Ireland at
present to be in greater danger from the abuses of liberty
than from the abusers of power, and, therefore, he,
placing full confidence in the Government, should enter-
tain, with favour, any proposition for enforcing the law,
and giving strength to the Government. If circumstances
should arise to make it necessary, he should he ready to
arm it, and the Government had very good ground for it,
with new and greater power. He should be ready, he
could assure the Noble Lord, to support any proposition of
that kind he might make.—(Cheers.)
Mr. W. O'BRIEN expressed his satisfaction at the
manly declaration of the Noble Lord, and his admiration
at the conduct of the Right Hon Baronet.
Mr. HUME followed, and, in a speech of considerable
length, which the lateness of the hour prevents us from
giving, deprecated, in strong terms, the violent and ar-
bitrary conduct of the Government, so different from the
language they had held, recommending conciliation, when
they sat on the opposition side of the House. He denied
that it was in the power of Mr. O'Connell, or any man, to
agitate a great country, unless that country was filled
avid' discontent from reasonable causes. Ireland had
reason to be discontented—she had long been misruled and
oppressed. lle recommended the Ministers to abolish
the Church Establishment, to do away tithes, to recall
the Lord Lieutenant, and place Ireland in a similar situa-
tion to that of Scotland, allowing her to haveouw
hdeormoworne
Church Establishment ; aid those things w
to pacify her, and restore tranquillity and maintain the
Union, than any other measures, He denied that Mr.
O'Connell's plan went to separate the two countries, but
only to give a separate Legislature for Ireland for her
domestic purposes, leaving the gener,ledpLolicy of the ern_
.pire to be determined by
the unit egislature. He
was opposed to that Hon. Member, but did not compre-
hend the arbitrary and un-w The English
tier
which
em b
had
been employed to put him on. Hon. Mer
concluded b y entreating the Government to derive wis-
dom from experience/ and now act on the maxims they

had delivered when they sat on the other aide of the
House.
Lord PALMERSTON could not help rising to express
the great satisfaction he felt on hearing the observations
which had fallen from the Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R.
Peel), as to his determination to support, not the present
Administration or the Government, but the very Con-
stitution of the country itself. Such conduct was such
as might have been expected from the high mind of the
flight. Hon. Baronet. He (Lord Palmerston) denied that
the Noble Marquis at the head of the Irish Government
had acted with precipitation in his endeavours to past down
the designs and machinations of evil-disposed persons in
that country. He acted with the deliberate advice and
full concurrence of the British Cabinet. As to the feeling
in the question in Ireland, he felt bound to state to the
House that all persons of propel ty, anti all those who had
any stake, or anything to lose in the country, were op-
posed to the Repeal of the Union; and if, by maintaining
he Legislative Union inviolate, the country must be
leluged with blood, as the Hon. Member for Clare (O'Gor-
man Mahon) had stated, the guilt of the blood which
would be shed, and all the disastrous consequences, must
fall on the heads of those who had driven the people to
acts of violence ; and the Government must, in the eyes
of Heaven and man, stand exonerated from all blame.

Mr. WYSE stated, that with respect to the Repeal of
the Union, there existed a diversity of opinion, not only
geographically but morally. There were, in fact, whole
districts, in which the question had not, as yet, been
mooted ; and others, in which the opinions of the in-
habitants were split and divided. He felt, in the fullest
degree, the honest pride resulting from popularity well-
deserved ; but the dearest blessing which attended popu-
larity, was the fact of its affording means of guiding and
enlightening the people ; but most strongly did he pro-
test against that popular chivalry—the worst species of
chivalry—which carried desolation into the bosoms of
families ; and which, under the sacred name of Liberty,
would lead to despotism; that worst species of despotism,
from which there was no haven.—(Loud cheers.)
Sir C. WETHERELL was sorry that he had, by his
delinquencies, put the Hon. Member for Clare out of hu-
mour. Now, however, as his good humour had been re-
established, he trusted it would last for the next two hours.
—(Hear, from O'Gorman Mahon.) In the absence of
the Hon. Member for Waterford, be would not commit
himself by stating any argumentatives he would not ad-
vance in his presence, and more especially as his trial was
now pending, he avoided saying any thing respecting the
law under which he was arraigned. He would content
himself by saying, that on this occasion he would vote for
Government, and moreover tell the Hon. Member for
Clare, that in the catalogue of his delinquencies he bad
omitted the fact of the Member for Boroughbridge being
the framer of that Act, which the Hon. Member for
Middlesex, using a word for which he must have
steamed to the Pigeon House, had designated as an
Algerine Act. Fearless he had ever been in his conduct
and the Honourable Member for Clare would see that be
was equally fearless in maintaining it. He avowed
himself the framer of that Act ; and when the time did
come, the Member for Boroughbridge would rise in his
place, and with that deference to that :House which he
should always show, would defend the necessity and the
preservative of Constitutional principles of that Act, with 1
a spirit equal to the Mon. Member's own. He contended
that, in supporting that law, Government were support-
ing a law which had been called for and wanted at the
time it was enacted—a law, a non-execution of which
would have been as disgraceful to Loud Anglesea as its
execution was honourable to the spirit, the integrity, and
character of that illustrious individual. He trusted the
fb.n. Member would not take it ill—he knew he would
not—it was quite impossible there ever could be any ill-
humour between them again.—( Hear, hear, from O'Gor-
man Mahon.)—He trusted he (O'Gorman Mahon) would
not take it ill if be expressed his regret that he had not
been wrong about the Catholic Question. It was really
startling to hear from that Hon. Member, that now nothing
but a disunion between the two countries could save both
from a civil war ; when only eighteen months before he
had been told that emancipation was to be the healer of all
sores, and the preventive of all evils. He hoped, however,
that the measure was not so completely gone—so per-
fectly functus officio—so effate as the Hon. Member
seemed to think. He never could admit such a mon-
strosity in argument as that the only means of avoiding
a civil war was to be found in the repeal of the Relief
Bill, and of the Union Bill—in the dissevering of England
'and Ireland. This was not a question of Whig and Tory
—of those who sat on that side of the House, or those who
sat on the other. It was not a question of parties in the
State, but of the whole State—of the country at large, and '
the just authority of Government. He would now re-
sume his place, stating, that, although an occasion might
by and by occur when he would not be able to give his
assistance to Government upon a question which was not
one respecting the Executive Administration, yet that he
now most cordially tendered them his s upport, and ac-
knowledged that on this question the Noble Earl at the
head of the Government had redeemed fully, completely,
truly, and honourably, one of the pledges which be had
given elsewhere, viz., that he (Lord Grey) would fully
maintain the executive power in Ireland. From what
had fallen front the Noble Lord opposite, he was jus-
tified in concluding that my Lord Anglesea had acted
with the privity and advice of the British Cabinet ;
and therefore he admitted the Noble Earl had main-
tained his proposition, when he stated that he would
support the just authority of the Crown. He also allowed
that the Noble Earl had maintained another of his pledges
relating to the disturbances at home, that Noble Earl had declared
that he would maintain the power of the law in the disturbed
districts, and the effect produced by the Special Commissions fully
proved that he had succeeded in performing the task which he
had so spiritedly undertaken. He had no objection to the produc-
tion of the papers moved for. He thought that the Hon. Member
seemed to acknowledge they were only a peg to hang a speech on.
He rejoiced, however, that the speech had been made, since it
gave many persons, and, among the rest, the Member for Bo-
roughbridge, an opportunity of recording their opinions, and
clearly showed that on this vital question all parties were united
and ready to maintain the just prerogative of the Crown, and the
constitutional exercise of them unimpaired.
Sir F. BURDETT remarked, that the Government was in an
awkward predicament, and that the Hon. Member near him and
others, who like him professed to support them, pursued a line
of conduct calculated to cause them much annoyance. If they
called that backing their friends (a plague on such backing !), he
would only say, the Government would find more difficulty in
avoiding these side attacks than any fair and adverse motions
which might be brought to bear on them by declared opponents.
He compared the indiscriminate attack of the Hon. Member for
Clare on all men and all parties in that House, to the
conduct of one of his own countrymen at a fair, who laid
about with his stick, breaking, indiscriminately, the heads
of friends and foes. Long as was the speech of that
Hon. Member, it was difficult to pick out any one thing
which admitted or required an answer. There was simply
a string of general remarks, in which he reflected on Irish-
men, the best friends of Ireland, and on the Whigs of
England, who had fought the battles of the Catholics for half a
century, and thereby precluded themselves from the enjoyment
of office, and those stations which were an object of ambition to
all honourable men. From what had fallen from the Hon.
Member, it would appear that Dean Swift's assertion, " that
what was true every where else was not so in Ireland," was well
founded; and it would even seem that words bore a different
signification in Ireland fro.n what they did every where else,
and therefore when Roman Catholics talked of gratitude without
end, they must have meant gratitude without a beginning.—
(Cheers and laughter.)—He must say that he had never heard
any thing with snore surprise than the tirade of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Clare against the Whigs, which has re-echoed from the
great agitator at the other side of the water.
O'GORMAN MAHON—That is not right ; it is not so.
Sir F. BURDETT, after explaining to the Hon. Member, pro-
ceeded to contend that benefits had resulted from the Catholic
Relief Bill, and that they felt it. Mr. O'Connell could not now
agitate Ireland as he had before agitated it..--(Loud cheers.) He
had adeeggted the claims of the Catholics to equal rights, be-
cause he thought their claims were just, and feeling this, he did
not know if he should have waited to consider the policy of con-
ceding them, although he thought that policy and justice always
Went hand in hand. It was to be remembered that Ireland was
not All Catholic, and that the whole body of the Protestants, and
the most respectable and influential portion of the Roman Ca-
tholics, would be found in the hour of trial ready to assist the
whole of the Protestants and the whole of the Catholics of Eng-
land, in maintaining inviolate the Union between the kingdoms,
the Constitution of the country, and the safety of the empire, ii
it were invaded. The difference been us and the Irish agitators
was this ; that whereas in England we had discussions before de.
cision---in Ireland they had decision first, and discussion after
wards --(Hear, hear.)—Like the Irish gentleman in the play,
they said " Oh I a pretty sort of thing indeed to explain--no, let
Us fight first, and hear the explanation afterwards."—(Laughter.)
—The cry of the Repeal of the Union was general among the
people of Ireland. Antong the lower classes there, the phrases
' Union," and "Repeal of union," were indifferently applied,
for they did not know what was meant by either of them.—
(Wear, hear.)—The people of' Ireland were suffering from dis_
tress, no doubt; and if they were told by Mr. O'Connell that the
Repeal of the Union would give them food and clothing, of
course they would wish to have food and clothing.—(Hear, hear.)
He was SUN that what the Marquis of Anglesea had d one, had
been done with the hest intentions. He hail full confidence in
that nobleman, who possessed a sound understanding and liberal
feelings by which to direct his conduct. To the Irish the Noble
Marquis had shown himself decidedly attached—for their inte-
rests he had laboured with earnestness and zeal and the Irish
must have short memories; indeed—(Hear, hear]—.or else they
would know and remember what sacrifices he had made for
them.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Marquis,
swach;3;fibcuetdainshort time
ago was so much lauded among them, d
ordinarysuit whatof
ob j
elicetsof considered
ambition,t o be theirbut a advantagesfripni not
.on ltyh aelrtuhre-
friendship,
tot ttirionini its
length and intimacy must have been peculiarlyr..
been bound in ties of early and long-continued friendship.—
(Hear, s ip.,—
had sacrificed the friendship of the late king, with whomf.d hhe.'ha i
t(
ilitiaers,
ohfear
Ireland,.) lt
Y‘a.ansdhteo lwrihmotwhea'gtrhaetit
really due. The Hon. Member for Clare professed his anxiety' to
realude liberatoro fthe
C a of
ht
oltihces tt-vaas.
preserve the peace and union (the moral union at least) of the
two countries, and yet lie did nothing but threaten them with
separation and hostility.—(Hear.) His voice might be the voice oh
Jacob, but his hand was the hand of Esau—(Cheers)—he was like
the rowers on the Thames, who looked one way while they
rowed another. It was possible that, like them, he might get
successfully to his journey's end, but it was much to be
feared that in this respect the comparison between them could
not be maintained.—(Cheers.)—Like the Earl of Dorset in the
time of Charles 11., he might be "the best tempered man," but
certainly,inuse
;,,forli
wkeh
ilteh eh, Nproobflese
sEeyil,,e
uh ee, hhaed
ma"
dtehethweosrtarsrtontiegmesied
tierde-
monstration of hostility.---(Hear, hear.)—it was true, lament-
ably true, that Ireland now suffered under many evils ; but whit
was the cause of them ? There was one authority on that sub

LONDON,
;WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 9, 1881.

The Debates last night in the House of Commons
will be read with considerable interest. Mr. HUNT
entered into a detailed account of the late riots in
Wilts and Hants, and was replied to at length by
Mr. BENETT, M.P. for the aunty. The
ATTORNEY-GENERAL also delivered his semi-
ments on the subject, and warmly defended the
policy of the Commissions, which, he observed,
had realized all the good that had been expected
from them. On the subject of the Irish Proclama-
tions by Lord ANGLESEA a most animated discussion
took place. Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON, who brought
forward the matter, condemned in strong terms the
policy of the Proclamations, and asserted that a re-
peal of the Union was indispensable to the tranquil-
lity of Ireland. Lord ALTIIORP replied to the
Honourable Member for Clare's tirade with
much spirit and good sense, and observed, that
dreadful as was a civil war, it was still
preferable (and should be hazarded) to a repeal of
the legislative Union between England and Ireland.
Sir R. PEEL, with a manliness and candour that do
him honour, took the same view of the case,
and announced his intention of giving (on this
question) his most strenuous support to Govern-
ment. Sir F. BuRDETT closed the discussion with
some pertinent and sarcastic comments on O'Gox-
MAN MAHON'S diatribe. We refer our readers to
the debate itself for the particulars of an amusing
squabble between O'GORMAN MAHON and Sir C.
WETHERELL.

The Paris Papers of Monday have been received
by express, but their contents possess no particular
interest, especially in the crowded state of our
columns. The Funds kept up at their previous
quotation.

The Opposition have had a field day on one of
their most important charges against the Govern-
ment, viz. on the Barilla question. The result has
been that the fullest and clearest explanation has
been given, both of the conduct of the Government
in reducing the duty by their own act, and of the
reasons which rendered the reduction expedient.
We need only refer to Mr. Pota.Err TROMP
SON'S speech, for it comprises all that can be said on
the subject, and will set the question at rest with
all persons of ordinary sense and candour.
Mr. HENRY HUNT hit the right nail on the head,
when be remarked that the singular feature in the
Debate was, that the Government were censured
by those who had committed similar errors when
they were in office. Nothing, certainly, can be
more singular than that the men who made the mi-
nute of the 16th November, with their staffs in
their hands, on the very point of -their walking out
of office, should turn round upon their successors
for following so recent a precedent, in addition to
the many others of the same kind. But great
allowance must be made for the vexation of
spirit of the outs, and for that natural mortification
at defeat, which vents itself in querulous complaints,
of which the cry about Barilla is one instance, and
the remonstrance of Sir EDWARD SUGDEN against
the LORD CHANCELLOR'S allowing the continuance

of an argument whilst his Lordship signs his name,
or takes a pinch of snuff,--is another.
Mr. SADLER took occasion of so favourable an op-
portunity to abuse political economists in his usual
oracular strain, and to bestow some hard words upon
capitalists, the application of which to the Barilla
Duty we do not perceive.
The friends of this gentleman should really advise
him to look to his consistency, for either he is in
his dotage, or the political economists have woefully
confused his intellects. He talks of " the political
economists tumbling into atoms an empire of ada-
mant," and of Sir ROBERT PEEL, the heir of a
fortune so large as to have exceeded the highest sum
contemplated by the probate duty, having originated
a complaint against the too great accumulation of indi-
vidual wealth. Surely Mr. SADLER'S wits are " tumbled
into atoms," or he would have abstained from talk-
ing such wretched stuff in public. We should like
to know also where he got the information that the
reduction of the Barilla Duty has thrown thirty or
forty thousand persons out of employment ?
It having been admitted by Lord ALTHORP and
Mr. THOMPSON, that the practice of altering duties
without the sanction of Parliament was one which
ought not, and would not be, continued, there is
no necessity to say a word more on the subject.—
The Government have acted with candour and
fairness throughout the whole affair. The conduct
of the Opposition in this, as in other nattere, it is
unnecessary to characterize.