The Sun.
London, England, 1838-06-27 00:00:00

to the actual state of Courtenay's mind.—(Lord J. Russell —' No.")
These were shortly the circumstances of the case. It was known that
shortly after the election for Cornwall the Noble Lord was visited by
Thom and his wife, at his seat in Devonshire. Its was curious to know
bnder what circumstances the introduction took place. He was sure
the House would give him credit for sincerity when be stated that he
did not bring this matter forward from party motives.—(" Oh.") He
believed that the Noble Lord wished himself for the Committee, which
Would enable him to explain the part he had taken, and out of which he
(Sir E. Knatchbull) sincerely hoped he would be able to come with
credit; although he must say that, viewing all the facts, he did not
think the Noble Lord had exercised a very sound discretion in the un-
fortunate affair. He concluded by moving for the appointment of the
Select Committee.
Lord J. RUSSELL felt that the melancholy event which had given
rise to this motion was the most calamitous circumstance which had
Occurred whilst he had held the seals of office; for he could not help
feeling that all the bloodshed caused by this man had resulted from the
fact of his unfortunate liberation by himself (Lord John 'tinsel].) It
Was, lie assured the House, a case which had occasioned him more pain
than any other with which he had to deal with during the whole course
of his official life.—(Cheers.) However, as to his Right Hou. Friends
behind and beside him, they had nothing to fear from the inquiry.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) The Act of the 9th of Geo. IV., chap. 40,
contains various provisions concerning the treatment of lunatics, and
',specially provides, in the case of pauper lunatics, that a justice of the
Peace may, by his warrant, commit him to the county lunatic asylum, and
that the visiting justices may,at any time,on full conviction of his restora-
tion to sanity, undertake to deliver such person to his relatives or friends
Unconditionally, that he may no longer be chargeable to the parish. In the
44th sect., where it is stated that paupers who are considered too delve.
rolls to be permitted to go abroad shall be sent to the county lunatic
Asylum, there is a condition added, not imperatively, but as an alterna-
tive, " provided always that nothing herein contained shall prevent such
relative or friend from taking such insane person under his protection,
and giving security for his safe keeping." The 56th section, speaking
of criminal lunatics, provides " that such person shall remain in confine-
°sent after the completion of his sentence, till it shall be notified to the
Secretary of State that he has become of sound mind." He had no hesi-
tation in admitting that there was no mention in this section respecting
ally power given to the Justices or the Secretary of State to discharge
from
confinement any criminal lunatic ; but it appeared to him obvious
that the power was already in the Crown, and for that reason, doubtless,
the Act did not think it necessary to say anything on that head. To
suppose that the Crown had no power to liberate a person under
such circumstances would involve the inconsistency—indeed the
glaring absurdity—that although the Crown might extend an
nnconditional pardon to the greatest criminal, who had corn-
rnittea the crime for which he was sentenced in a sound state
of mind, yet that it had no power to liberate a prisoner who had been
guilty of the most trifling offence committed when he was in a state of
/unacy.._(licar, hear.) He did not think the Honourable Gentleman
contemplated making the exercise of this power a part of his charge,
5° he would not dwell further on it. Taking this for granted, and pro-
ceeding on this fair constitutional analogy—supposing that this person
Was a lunatic—there was nothing in the Act that should prevent him
(Lord John Russell) from giving him up to his friends. It was ob-
jected that he was a criminal ; but he would ask of what kind ? If he
had been guilty of any particular violence—if he had shot or stabbed
any person, or had shown any intention of so doing—it might be ne-
cessary to hold him in durance after the period of his confinement was
ended, But the case was otherwise. His crime was perjury—one
Which a person of unsound mind would be very apt to commit, yet
not indicative of any especial malice to his fellow.creatures, or
calling for any particular continuation of measures of personal coer-
cion.--(Hear, hear, hear.) Had he been of the dangerous class
Of criminals he might have either been sent abroad, or if his case
was one characterized by alternations of health and illness—for instance
hts—lie might have been confined at home for a specified time, and
eventually, if circumstances permitted, recommended to mercy. There
Were two kinds of treatment in this latter case, according to the classes
of criminality, and according to which he would either be kept at hard
labour in the hulks for three years, or be kept in solitary confinement for
two years in the Penitentiary, and subsequently receive a free pardon.
Courtenay had, however, already been kept four years in the Lunatic
Asylum ; so that, viewing him as a criminal, he had already incurred
greater punishment than an ordinary criminal would have been subjected
Is. He wished to show by analogy where the letter of the law was silent
that there was no consistency in keeping lunatic criminals always in con-
4nernent—(Hear, hear, hear)—although he had been habitually most
cautious in consenting to the liberation of individuals who aught, from
the nature of their offences, be dangerous to the peace of society.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) He would read a letter from Lord Chief
Justice Denman, which would practically illustrate his views on the
Subject. His Lordship wrote, " The inclosed petition is worthy of
your attention, relating to a person who has remained in confinement
after his cure in the lunatic asylum," and stating further the facts of the
case and his views thereupon. He (Lord J. Russell) replied that he
Limit confess he felt considerable difficulty in acceding to such all appli-
cation, for though the person in confinement had not lately committed
5,03' act of violence, still it was probable his disease might return, and
lie might again inflict serious personal injuries. He (Lord J. Russell)
felt much difficulty in letting him out on the public. He intreated
Lone Denman to let him know if there were any law respecting lu-
rletics who had committed violence against any one—for instance,
the crime of murder, of which the individual in question had been
guilty ; for, if not, lie felt that the law required to be amended
14 this respect. The Honourable Gentleman was right in stating
that the parents of this person had seen him (Lord John Russell)
llt Endsleigh, in August last year. Perhaps the Honourable Gen.
4:man would have better followed up the spirit of his original
deeimation of his wish to keep the question unconnected with party if
lee had not touched on that subject, or indulged in the inference he
drew from the circumstance. The only introduction he had was the
information that they were country people who wished to see him about
business. Had he, at first, known that it respected a criminal case,
Which was generally exceedingly disagreeable, and unavailing business,
fie would not, perhaps, have seen them at all. He recollected that they
were respectable-inking people—that they stated to him their great
distress of mind under the continued confinement of their son, who was
admitted by the persons in charge of the Lunatic Asylum to be no
longer dangerous. He (Lord J. Russell) had told them in reply the
difficulty he felt in interfering in such a case—that some people
ao afflicted were liable to lapses and repeated attacks, which re-
luired constant attention. They assured him that they and their
'en had sufficient property to enable them to provide and pay •
t°r proper pen sons to take care of him continually, and that it
*ould confer the greatest happiness on them to be permitted
l° undertake that charge. There must have been some letter
Ore.e°timenunication on the subject subsequently between him and his i
Right Hon Friend beside him, for he visited him (Lord John Russell) at
'the tirne.._(Hear.) In consequence, the visiting justices sent him ante-
kcal certificate from the hospital, stating that Courtenay was of unsound
isnl—that he fancied himself a Knight of Malta, and heir of Powder-
ualn Castle. The certificate did not state that he was likely to be clan-
-I°,ou,' to society, but he (Lord John Russell) asked if the visiting Ma_
Castrate, had thought that likely whether they would not have said so ?
`-(Hear,] The Hon. Gentleman appeared to think that Magistrates had
an indisposseion to give a Secretary of State correct information, unless •
'le were of their own way of thinking.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL (as we understood) said across the table,
aroidst loud laughter—The visiting Magistrates are Liberals.
Lord J. RUSSELL continued—The conduct of the father certainly
Was very extraordinary, for although he accepted the letter written
biul to take care of his son, instead of keeping him under his own eye,
Or providing a proper keeper for him as he had promised, he gave him
UP to a person of the name of Francis, who was a friend of Courtenay,
o,ld allowed him to do and go where he liked. The Hon. Gentleman
had alluded to the election of the county of Cornwall. He (Lord John
'Russell) knew nothing of the particulars or personal politics of that
.'ection. But his Hon. Friend could explain for himself. He had no
tenversation whatever with him on the subject till about a week ago,
Wlesn he told him that he saw a letter in the Standard, asserting that the
4fhor of Courtenay had voted for hips; but his lion. Friend (sitting then
ttx th,e seat beside him) replied that he really know nothing about it, but
'''ould.go and inquire into the facts. If his Hon. Friend opposite had
Wished sto keep clear of party feelings he surely would not have accepted
with such credulity accusations against honourable men.— (Hear, hear.)
44, own cos duct might not have been in accordance with the exercise
°resound dis cretion, but anything less connected with politics or the
the
of the ,eounty of Cornwall he never knew of.—(Cheers) As to
:5 proceedings of the unfortunate individual since his liberation he
had had no information except from the newspapersnd he could not
have believed or imagieed beforehand that any
p
r erso, and
could have been
found in England so utter ignorant as to have believed in such all-
tuelities—as to have given credence to such a person.—(Hear,
hear,)
`l°Wever, it should be stated that a similar discretion had been exer.
eased by Secretaries on State on several occasions. Lord Sidmouth had
n''°"o so in the case of S::eplien Warden, a lunatic who was committed
"P. an assault. Another lunatic (Wm. Williams), who had been con.
—aj'ed for murder in 1812, was found insane, and was discharged and
wen over to the guardians of his parish for safe keeping. There were
that
other similar cases. He would wish the House to consider
sable
in this case thought murder may have taken place he was not respon.
Caves
for it. —(Hear.) It had been said that he had, in some cases,
Vert way- to private applications ; but really, in many instances, he had
ta,-(idght it better to refuse such applications than to put the public peace
danger ,by any liberations which were not strictly prudent to be
I.4,ted, as in the case already mentioned, in reference to the corres.
1
'"tUlenee with the Chief Justice of the Queen's Bench. In others, as in
the case of the woman who had killed her own child—an act which had
aesUlted, perhaps, from the derilium of fever—another murder might
trat ibly be the result of her liberation. All he could say was that he felt
Le
responsible ite having to decide on such cases—(Hear)—and that
ne steould not resist tne motion for the Committee.
Sirs RuesEY VIVIAN was glad to have an opportunity of refuting
the7,ealummes that had been uttered against him. He had seen in the
:rtes newspaper a statement that the vote of the father in his favour
iTthe cornwall election was the cause of the bloodshed by the son in
comity of Kent. A calumny more gross, or a charge more false,
-4' Lever uttered against any man en earth.—(Hear, hear.) A Noble
Luke, in another place, had indulged in the most unwarrantable as-
sertions.-(Order.) The Hon. Gentleman stated that
lie had informa-
tion in his possession—would he have the candour to say' if he had re.
e .k`ved an anonymous letter on the subject ? (Hear.) In the course
a
LI his life he haul received several anonymous letters, and had always
but them into the fire, or handed them to the persons they accused.—
(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet hod come and asked a favour of
l
'irn in his office,—(Non Ile says he has not—
Sir H. KNATCHBULL had not the slightest idea of what he meant.
'''air H. VIVIAN said that he came and asked him to get his brother a
r4et in the Horse Artillery.—(Cheers.) Did he (Sir H. Vivian) then
4'sUlt ,him by asking him in return to vote for them at that side of the
ali lane of
—(Cheers.) What other grounds, then, had he to impute such
oe ,conduct to him ?—(Loud cheers.) It was not necessary for
1141 to proesere votes by such means. He did not even know Thom, nor
ee
e ever seen bm but once, when he asked permission to write to
-"alo iun favour of hiss son. The first application made to him on the
'4biect was by Ids Honourable Friend behind him, who wrote a
letteri to him, stating that the lunatic had been his confidential
tekrk, and giving a high character of him. That letter was dated
e loth of August, arid to show how little this transaction could
have had to do with the election, he (Sir H. Vivian) was returned to
1,
,arliaMent on the Bth of August. But was there anything extraordi-
arY in liberating a person who had been convicted and was a lunatic ?
o-4
looking over time returns of different counties, he found that there
, scarcely a county in England in which this had not been done. In
se "0, eighteen persons had been discharged under such circumstances
Cheshire; thirty-six had been discharged in Durham ; and in his
Zwu county, Cornwall, eight had been discharged. It was a principle of
rnritish law that an insane person could not commit a crime ; and, there-
been found guilty. If inquiry was to take place, the fuller it was the
hotter satisfied he should be; and if the question were pursued to a
'avasion, he should vote in favour of it.
t .4lr. TURNER had known Thom for many years and had known him
a most inoffensive man, and an excellent character until he loot
"', reason. He had been the Clerk of a Solicitor at Truro, and had af-
terwards been employed most confidentially by him (Mr. Turner), and
entrusted with large amounts of property, Ile left his home in 1830,
a
soon after wrote a very sensible and affectionate letter to his wife ;
:r. Was it until the election 0f1539. that the unfortunate man was again
1, rd of as a candidate for Canterbury, where lie got three hundred arid
,it 4
4,11 votes. Was it not a wonder that such things could occur at Call.
ta-e bury ? Ile hoped they could not happen in any other part of
couetry,—(A laugh.) He wished the parties in Kent who
lutatt! excited this unhappy man could wipe out the stain that
the dlnr. Francis, he thought, was much to blame for
Part lie had taken in the affair. He could show by as
a„eeri ther
taken of letters whic
the h lie heldman. in hllereis handthe H that
on. Member great pains
read
had
extracts
to excite poor
from several letters' addressed to Thom while be was in prison
tinder
sentence for perjury, ,styling him Sir William Courtenay. One
trollwas .her a.t viass Ord, as we ereleretoca, requesting Sir William to scud
els hair brush and comb iesteed pa' a brush and comb which she