The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-23 00:00:00

litk,t the slightest intention to say anything painful to
ilt:4 feelings the only three Members of that House
PehJtt been called to account, in his experience, Were?
iten"aoutable Baronet, Member fur Southwark; the;
inarable Baronet, "Member for Westminster; and Lord!
17Crane t • all three representing popular places. When
ir._:)latisidered all these things, was it surprising that hej
tld" hesitate before he could agree to so total a change
:representative System as that at present conteto-,
' ted•--(Hear, hear.) But he should be told, that.
,Lever valuable many of the Members for boroughs had
tl7i-and might be, still they were not representatives of!
NaPeople. He would ask those who said so, what they
'el ftr by the term " representative ?" Did they wish to
litul that House the representatises of the moral, or of
Physical force—the representatives of the good sense,
°f the passions of the people ? For the good sense of '
itite°Ple he had a great respect; for their passions none.
hang could be More unfounded than any supposition
Elie
Wished to shut the feelings of the people out of
se !Luse. The difficulty was to admit those feeliugs in
Or due proportion. What did the e ask which
I:Parliatnent, as at present constitutedpeopl, had not shown
e'Pesition to grant ? Was it a reduction of taxation ?
etr the peace no less than thirty-one millions of taxes
ik_been taken off. Was it a reduction of petronsge ? In
,Years no fewer than four thousand places had been
t
l,ed
tie ; the salaries of fifty-eight of which were from
Nea three thousand pounds per annum. Not only bad
„iaatnent done their duty in those respects ; but they '
eeealled for returns which the people could not other-
t-Thave obtained. What more any other description of
tiler/lent could effect he was not prepared to say.
,r. WYSE said, that the Hon. Member had quoted
I, ettone, in favour of his abhorrence of innovation ; but
,7 had rend Blackstone longer and more truly, he would
in many, very many places, passages in favour of
ilrertirrri ; It had been said, too, that Locke was opposed
• ,t' ; yet in his work upon Government, he ob-
te;7' in his chapter concerning the subordination of the
4of the Commonwealth :—" For it being the in•
t, Is well as the intention of the people to have a fair
:i-eifecti representation, whoever brings it nearest to that,
k: tin.loubted friend to, and establisher of the Govern-
ftad cannot miss the consent and approbation of the
Cation
What then, did flora. Members mean by ? It was the goodne-s or badness of revolution
Was to be regarded. The question was—whether
useful or not. If they meant by revolution, a tor-
eif t struggle fur the alteration of all existing institutions
Vt‘l.47 meant a struggle carried on by a faction against
Qel and feeling of the majerity—a struggle to be con-
te4ted by brute force—a struggle promoted by selfish
t,4lflordid men, who were striving for their own indivi-
qtiratPage and happiness, and not for the comfort and
le, 01 the people at large—if this was what they meant
i'''"hrtien, he repelled such a revolution ; but if by re-
qa they meant a change incidental to all good Con-
'ileflna--the very susceptibility of ;alteration being pro.
of
in a good Constitution, lest it alone should he
I:7re while time was moving all things around it ; if
14101ution they meant the removal of diseased parts, the
:e off excrescences which affected the soundness, and
ktil Yed the fair proportions of the whole, and which
t be cut away without the creation of deformity, or
'ar affecting, in the least, the vital principle ; he hailed
trerelution, and welcomed it as the promiseof a brighter
;:r us and our posterity. He contentlad that there
pthing dangerous or unusual in a change in the Con.-
' '''n such as th it proposed by his Majesty's Ministers.
Principle, that the laws of England should not be
td, was proclaimed, but had never been acted upon.
:fail, history was nothing but the record of perpetual
1---incessant revolution. Struggle followed struggle;
i i.`"bent was heaped upon amendment ; first there was i
Ni-itultele between the King and the Barons—the great 1
: (if the Crown ; they having sunk beneath the seep-
el
:e struggle was made between the overgrown power
141(log and the people, wiicli ended in the overturn-
ththe Throne and the establishment of the Common-
lip, From the return of the Stuarts to the accession
tient 111. the struggle still was between the mon-
th,taoregetive and power of the Crown and. the rightsi
to A.; and from the revolution, during all su ?se-
, a 4e; and especially in the reign of the Georges,
il'aegle had been against that influence under which ,
liw. hewed, but were striving to shake themselves
elf' then, Hon. Members taunted the supporters 01
ot as being the advocates of Revolution, they must
t the history of England. Respecting the excite-
hlhhich prevailed throughout the country, be oh-
, that it It td been said it was raised by the Govern-
''hut they who made such an assertion knew not the
''' tnind. It was net the Ministers who had excited the
' t rehich then pervaded the land, but it was this feeling
kad called the Afinisters into existence. It was the
:onviction of the necessity of Reform, and the ardent
ale it, which was telt to be hopelessly entertained
•• eiethe sway of the late Administration, that
tet"Thaned the Ministers to their place,. They were
i',llita'ors—they were the organs of the people.—
-' e'r..)—lle most anxiously deprecated delay in the
iia of the measure so earnestly sought for by the
, England, for lie felt that the delay in the con-
' IZI2, Catholic emancipation, and not the concession
il' -''q Produced the feeling of dissatisfaction which yet
iNti la. Ireland. If concession had been made sooner,
tree, tare produced its natural effect, and they would
kit
have the relics of agitation in Ireland.' The Hon.
4t\ t th
. Vp en proceeded to draw a distinction between the
kttlitanee previous to the revolution, and that of Eng-
ykfel Present moment; but in consequence of the noise
fins that prevailed, we cannot eretend to follow
e I,44_econcluded by declaring he would vote far the
, e'z k zlng of the Bill.
IN.Iip,'ATESON regarded it as a strange thing that
04417 till for Ireland should be brought in merely
l'S t:
te tete Post the Bill already brought forward by the
AN* Being an Irishman, having all his property
,e'ttliand representing an Irish county, he could not
'''ett,•('eurse pursued by his Alajesty's Ministers in this
.44141104,8 unnoticed, for even in the momentous gene-
) to LEI he considered the measure, as affecting Ire-
' 4 toy °f great importance. Too much bad been
lasel.Personal motives swaying the votes of Hon.
ii ofil! for himself he disclaimed all motive but the
Ittvii,trel: eeuntry.—(Hear, hear.) He knew his consti-
e e'et'livided on the question, but he would, never-
.' ti:lils duty conscientiously and fearlessly, and he
i,4 be afraid at a future period to face them. He
'hsti vr'eafe fur safe and moderate Reform. If the
'rti
to e
onC4l.needed to be remodelled, it certainly should
be L, a manner so crude and hasty as that pr0).4'1.18
).4'1.18 Majesty's Ministers ; and for his part, if

ternocljlled, he wished to have it effected so than
, alCuatkid give, unlike the Noble Lord's, permanent
Nitneil The Reform proproed by the Noble Lord, it
Ye Y, Y evident,
ident, must cease to give satisfaction in
y 4-.l'll time, Heagreed with the Noble Lord, that
tat," not population should be the basis of the
41: but be considered the 101. rate much too low.
Lilill would, and must be brought in by whatever
L4ll°lild sit upon those benches. Reform in Par-
tslitrika. neeessary ; and he much lamented that the
Ni,44tration did not decide upon conceding a calm,
OOilliz and temperate Reform in proper time.—
11 )And he thought that by hesitating so to
tin some measure, brought the couatry into
helielitate of excitement—(Lout cheers)—and he
titts,-7"ds that the present Ministry had incurred an
t.,...ri'tibility by bringing forward this sweeping
to ,`,'.(1,1;1 and continued cheers.)—lfe had no ob-
tkihr ilisfranehisetnent of the rotten boroughs;
12',0'04te'ity boroughs because they happened not
401,,, v tclaahitants, although the electors might be
trit-1b and independent as those of Westminster or
'43," considered a gross injustice.—(Cheers. )
; ieatujoation boroughs, he wished to see thins de-
'iti ,aaitty and retrenchment he desired to pro-
:titl'are9 and Undeserved pensions, whether for men
: tsja---(flear and laughter)—he had no object-
kt,atinihilated. ; but to the Reform Bill proposed
kcie Lord he could not agree.—(Cheers.)
ttitjtuenT,CHA RLES had given a voluntary pledge
)6, , " upon the hustings, which he now rose
.t.stiii ,Es:lazing his determination to vote for the
til'itt:g of the Bill. He entirely concurred in the
;C.ets.,at cf the close boroughs.
theca'EREAGH had been entrusted with a pea.
t‘t,ilfhurlty of Down in favour of Reform, signed
ii,.4 constituents; but be could not take upon
t directly in opposition to the dictates ot los
N; 441;iti(debeers.)—The petition to which he had
tVs ,it4tri did all the petitions of the same de-
Ititi4loti,. sePc. embraced a number of topics. lie
1104 44; a°llle of the points referred to, as well in
\t ' to 14' hitt county entrusted to himself, as from
tits 1148 Hon. Friend, and he would now read
Lltat ~140, that it might tee in what light the
It f really to he viewed. 'These petiti""'
kitt
44) , iko't triennial Parliaments—for the vote by
SENi. 41.,"', Y and retrenchment—for the repeal of
",!siteh" 'le hoped the Government would be en-
-14'IakTiis,,fel/1 by a better Budget)—for a
heave-graduted
1, Ittitli 4 4. the total abolition of tithes, and :4 ilicitikit4letta sinecurists, like the Dean of Dromoie,
\ tiitik a Year, as they stated, for doing nothing.
4'l ; L. 1,, , to support a measure of mole-
,. kit% tie certainly was not prepared to give
. eiteure which overturned the whole struc-