The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-18 00:00:00

CHOLERA.

Sir R. VYVYAN wished to ask for information on a
very important subject. He understood from the newspapers
that the cholera had been imported so near as Hamburg,
and was within thirty-six hours' sail of this country. He
wished to ask whether Government had received any
official information on this subject, and whether, in

consequence of its being on the shores of the Ger-
man Ocean, any farther measures bad been taken
to adopt a more rigorous quarantine. There seemed
to be a great mistake about the nature of this
desire, and the effect of a sea voyage on it. He
should hope, if it came to this country, and he feared
there was too much reason to suppose it would,
that such measures would be adopted as would be necessary
to prevent its spreading.
Mr. P. THOMPSON said Government had last week
received information of the cholera being at Hamburg.
But as the Hamburg steam-boat had net yet arrived,
no official information had been received since.
From various letters, however, received in London, it
appeared that the disease had increased from eleven persons
to twenty-one. The necessary directions had been issued to
enforce a more strict quarantine on all vessels coining from
Hamburg, and also as a precautionary measure on all ves-
sels coming from Ports from the North coast of Denmark,
down to the coast of Rotterdam. These orders
had been promulgated by the Customs. He felt
it necessary to call attention to these circumstances, and to
state that instructions would appear in the Gazeete of
this evening or Friday, for all Magistrates and clergy, to
promote sufficient precautionary measures. He agreed
with the Hon. Baronet, that from all accounts of this
disease, it was ridiculous to suppose that it was affected by
a sea-Massage. Government had hitherto been enabled to
keep the disease away by precautionary measures ; at
the same time, it was true that it was seen now to
approach these shores. In the event of its arrival,
it would depend in a great measure on persons in this
country to check it.
Mr. HUME, Mr. AVAanuazoN, and others, strongly
impressed on Government the necessity of taking precau-
tionary measures.

(LEFT SITTING.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Lord FARNHAM presented petitions from' the cor-
porations of saddlers and eoach-makers, of the city of
Dublin, against the Reform Bill ; one from the corpora-
tion of barbers and surgeons to the same effect ; and one from
the coal-meters of the same city praying for compensation ;
also one from the weavers, praying for the institution
of a Board of Trade.

Lord DOVER presented a petition from Shipford, in
Bedfordshire, in favour of the Reform Bill.
Earl CAWDOR presented petitions from Nairne and
Renfrew in favour of the Reform Bill.

The LORD CHANCELLOR presented nine petitions
in favour of the Reform Bill from Ayr, Knaresborough,
and other places. The Noble and Learned Lord took
that opportunity of expressing his regret that a Bill
which passed their Lordships' House had been thrown out
in another Wave, be meant the Bill for the gradual abo-
lition of the Court of Exchequer in Scotland, and for
making compensation to the Judges ; it had been delayed
from time to time, and now was thrown so far back
as to put a complete stop to it. He derided the
idea which had been started, of having a Commission of
Inquiry before proceeding with the Bill. If more infor-
mation had been necessary, the Committee might have
called for and had the evidence of the Learned Chief Baron
of that Court, by which they would have found so useless
was the Court that that Learned Judge had received four
thousand pounds for trying only two causes. He (the
Lord Chancellor) considered lie was only doing his duty
to the public when he introduced this Bill, by which he
proposed to allow retiring pensions to the Judges who
might accept of them, and when they either resigned or
the offices otherwise became vacant, were not to be filled
up, but the business of that Court was to be carried into
the other Court. He trusted that the Bill would pass early
next Session. The Noble and Learned Lord then defedned
himself from some attacks which had been made on him
relative to his appointment of some Masters in Chancery.
He said that he could not attribute to anything else
than disappointment these repeated attacks upon him
—no doubt the loss of place, and seeing no chance of
regaining it, was enough to anger any man, but
he was sorry to see that a Learned Friend of his allowed
such feelings to warp and obscure an otherwise candid
mind and clear understanding.
(LEFT SITTII)G.)

THE LONDON GAZETTE

OF THIS EVENING.

DECLARATIONS OF INSOLVENCY,

WILLIAM FIENRY KEMPSTER, Kingston-on-Thames,
wine-merchant.

THOMAS KNIGHT, Stanmore, Middlesex, victualler.
BANKRUPTCY ENLARGED.

JAMES GIBSON, Northwich, from July 12, to Nov. 9, at
eleven, at the Crown lon, Northwich.

BANKRUPTS.

EDWIN SANSOM, Oxford-street, straw hat-manufacturer,
to surrender Oct. 25, at nine, Nov. 18, at twelve, and 29, at ten,
at the Court of Commissioners. Bull, Ely-plaae, Holborn.
CHARLES ROBERTS, Liverpool, miller, Oct. 29, 31, and
Nov. 29, at one, at the Clarendon-buildings, Liverpool. Gandy,
Liverpool ; Chester, Satple-inn, Holborn.
SARAH COX, Bath, boarding-house-keeper, Oct. 25, 26, and
Nov. 29, at ten, at the Christopher Inn, Bath. Fisher, Castle-
street, Holborn.
CHRISTOPHER CATTLE, Whixley, Yorkshire, cattle-
dealer, Oct. 31, Nov. 1, and 29, at eleven, at the King's Arms-
inn, York. James and Battyc, Colman-street, London ; and
\Vood and Newton, York.
WILLIAM BOOTH, Salford, Lancashire, grocer, Nov. 7,
8, and 29, at ten, at the York-hotel, Manchester. Johnson and
Weatherall,Temp!e, London ; Booth and Harrison, Manchester.
LEWIS LEWIS, Piccadilly, china.dealer, Oct. 28, at one,
Nov. I, at three, and 20, at one, at the Court of Commissioners.
Abrahams, Clitford's-inn, Fleet-street.
JOHN JOVE, New-road, Whitechapehrocd, stationer, Oct.
28, Nov. 4, at one, and 29, at eleven, at the Court of Commis-
sioners. Evitt, Price, and Lucas, Haydon-square.
ROBERT THOMAS, Glyn, Glamorganshire, cattle-dealer,
Oct. 23, 29, and Nov. 19, at twelve, at the Rummer Tavern,
Bristol. Jenkins, Bridgend, Glamorganshire ; Beverley, Tern-
lam-buildings, Gray's Inn.
WILLIAM SHAW, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, victualler,
Nov. 3, at seven, 4, at eleven, and `..9, at ten, at the White Hart
Inn, Huddersfield. Lever, Gray's Inn-square; Baker, Hudders-
field.

THOMAS HENRY WEBSTER, Forebridge, Staffordshire,
builder, Oct. 28, 31, and Nov. 29, at twelve, al the Swan Inn,
Stafford. Webb and !Ecru, Stafford; Clowes, Onne, and Wed-
lake, Inner Temple, London.
THOM AS HARPER, Stroud, Gloucestershire, coal-dealer,
Oct. 29, 31, and Nov. 29, at ten, at the Upper George Inn, Glou-
cester. King and Son, Serjeant's-Inn, London ; Chadborn,
Newham.

ROBERT NEWMAN, Old Cavendish-street, Cavendish_
square, victualler, Oct. 25, at one, Nov. I, at twelve, 22, at one,
at the Court of Commissioners. Glynes, America-square.
RICHARD STRONG, Thomos-street, St. George's in the
East, baker, Oct. 25, Nov. 2, at eleven, and 29, at ten, at the
Court of Commissioners. Reynolds, University-street, Fitzroy.
square.
GEORGE JOSEPH SKILBECK and JOHN SLATER,
King-street, Cheapside, Manehester-warehousemen, Oct. 25, at
one, Nov. 1, at twelve, and 29, at one, at the Court of Commis-
sioners. Whitelock, Aldermanbury.
JAMES FOX, Gravesend, Kent, checsemonger, Oct. 25, at
twelve, Nov. 4, at eleven, and 29, at twelve, at the ourt of Com-
mi•sioners. Rixon and Son, Jury-street, Aldgate.
JOHN RA WLING, Kelton-Mill, Cumberland, miller, Oct.
28, 29, and Nov. 29, at eleven, at the ottice of Mr. Hodgson,
Whitehaven. Falcon, Temple, London; Hodgson, Whitehaven.

THOMAS SCOTT, Manchester, commission-agent, Nov. 7,
8, and 29, at nine, at the York Hotel, Manchester. Bent, Man.
Chester; 'Milne, Parry, Milne, and Morris, Temple, London.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF COMMONS, OCTOBER 17.

( Continued from our Second Edition of yesterday. )
At Four o'clock the SrEAKER. took his seat.
SPRING-GUN BILL.

Mr. HUNT asked if this Bill was to be proceeded in
this Session?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replitd
in the negative.
BANKRUPTCY COURTS BILL.

The House then went into a Committee upon the
Bankrupt Court Bill.

Mr. iVARBURTON objected to the clause which em-
powered a single Commissioner to refer a case to the
Court of Review.

- -
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would agree to di-
minish that power, if, upon consideration, it appeared ex-
pedient ; and the clause was accordingly allowed to stand
over.

Several ether chuses were then agreed to, after some
verbal amendments, in one of them on the suggestion of
Mr. WA RBI! RTON.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that it was pro-
pose,' to make some compensation to the holders of patent
offices which were to be abolished by this Bill. That
compensation was intended to be taken as the average of
the profits of these patent offices for three year,,. With
respect to the retiring pensions, there was no intention at
present to press a compensation clause for them, for the
Government had not received sufficient information on the
subject to enable them to lay any well-founded calculation
before the House. That brought him to the case of the
Commissioners whose office would be abolished by this
Bill. It was proposed that compensation should be given
to those Commissioners who had been appointed before
the time of Lord Chancellor Lyndhurst, but not to those
who had received their appointments since that period.
The reason for making this distinction was, that from
the time of Lord Lyndhurst entering upon the office there
had been an intention to change the system, and every
Commissioner appointed by that Noble Lord, and all those
appointed by Lord Brougham, bad taken their appoint-
ments subject to their knowledge of that intention, and,
of course, subject to the knowledge that if that change
was made they would immediately cease to be Commis-
sioners. The effect of this would be to strike off twenty-
two persons from the list of those to whom compensation

fi
was to be given, sixteen Commissioners having re
their appointments from Lord Lyndhurst, and sii.v
Lord Brougham. With respect to superannuation 1„,i0
ances, lie begged to say that they would trot be gran;/
a matter of course, hut that every particular case 00
be referred to the Treasury, and a particular order
upon it.
Sir C. WETHERELL took that opportunity eij
serving that the sacrifice proposed to be made 110/
Chancellor Brougham in the patronage of his Conte' to#
this Bill, had been much over-rated. With resigerd
patent office, for instance, the sacrifice was very i011:1
the appointment was now held upon two lives, wbroie
all common probability, were not likely to he Jett!ij#
during the time that Lord Chancellor Brougham Seals, as his life was, perhaps, not a better life °IS
of either of the appointers. He couterded also that:o)
respect to the retiring pensions, the Noble Lord Woo
no great sacrifices, nor had he indeed upon any fart
Bill. A Leerti
Lord AL'f HORP agreed 'with the Hon. an- dol.,
Gentleman, that the Bill ought to be considers cyr
own merits, and not in reference to what the Lode, ,y
cello'. might or might not be giving up. He ogre foi
that it was not desirable to reduce the emoluments übifyi
office so low as to prevent its being an object of 000
to able men. But there was this difference berWeepdi
conduct of his Noble Friend in this case and the cool
of other officers when changes were about to be 190,
their patronage ; he relinquished the patronage) sv
waiting to ascertain what he was to receive in refill."
wHear.) It was not intended to leave the Lord Cloee
ithout an adequate salary, both as Chancellor and 59,0
of the House of Lords ; but the Bill before the
HpU fl`
not one in which such a pension was to be made. do,
Noble and Learned Friend's disregard of pecuniary
tages was well known.—(Hear, hear.)

-The clause was then agreed to. 1
Te next clause haing been read, isr!
c.pe-
Thh E The ATTORNY-vGENERAL said, that the „ erridt':
of Bankrupts would have no retiring pension,
"
salary would be reduced.
ould be 16e

Sir C. WETHERELL denied that there «'-
least saving to the public effected by the Bill. re svcAl
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that tbei-
be a saving to the public of 30,0001. a year, be'i°:olteis
siderable diminution of expence to the parties tbe"l„-id be /
Mr. WARBURTON admitted that there core large'
considerable saving in cases where the assets Wr.ere•sell'
but in the majority of cases the expence would be he Bill'
Clause D was then ordered to stand part 01. t
The clauses E and F were then agreed to. „of tbf
Clause G was then proposed, by which the 0'34900°'
Chief Judge of the Court of Bankruptcy was to be ,!
a year—the other Judges of this Court 2,0001' bet,orli
of
fie
the
IC eomß Chancellor'setigi issstisroaenrcebrresstoaoorfyit.
fe
aCnodutrltiel
Bankruptsp,s,opolul:t2yoa
o);.eaiir•-•;0/,,,r,etios(
Registra'lo, 0,
a year : the first payment to commence on the '
°
next April.
Mr. WARBURTON complained that the
.0
called to vote this money without having the ditritoo?'
offices explained. He could not, however, divide be
as it would put an end to the business.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL defended thee Igfge.l
Sir C. WETHERELL opposed the grant of :,,°•hte"‘i
sum of money without inquiry. fie regretted t"'d bee
of the Hon. Member for Middlesex. If there ba
question upon a three-halfpenny biscuit, that 010
her would have been in his place ; but 0°0.,t. sol°°'
were to decide whether 36,000/. of the pinlf•Ault,,'
should or should not be voted away without tote,
the factious few were left to fight tbentlieteo,
of economy without the aid of the u lid
Member for Middlesex. He declared be IV,
know in what way the three Puisne Judges Ron °Ol,
employed ; all the duties which would devolve o
were now performed by the Chancellor's SecretarlYtiy
could not avoid observing, too, there was a qu'lP,,at
tween the Wo, back and the Press.—(Hear'-
laughter.) It would really seem as if there,H%-, , 14'1:
cial writer or journalist to the Great
Not a day passed but Members of that Ilinse '
/ stet'
charged 13,_ ~rof /
charged their duty honestly in opposing
abused by a daily writer, who seemed to be th,o
h s
champion of te Woolsack•
Yet their oppoo,n,
the Bill had not been barren .or unsuccessful. Veirilit!
compelled Ministers to cut down a part of the job• 0 oeff
had forced them to confess that the retiring penal
°n
too bad. .turel:
Mr . DAWSON complained of the expensive o'oo
ap therGlm,ivgaeacrtline
Government,
e,eanrsytt,eoaofnftdht
ipiHer
oenfe,csoosi
money', especially
oecreseapdrercyii taolalnys rovioi
°cis la:::
which
of the country without patronage. It was worthy cs
servation, that the present Lord Chancellor, 100,
came into office, had had the disposal of more pis 0,10
any of his predecessors in an equal time. It was a gol3'
fusion to the public to represent that the present v"-,fte
by which any saving could be effected. He did nhofiri,
fess to have any practical acquaintance with the
of the Court of Chancery, but, as a Member °to
House, unconnected with the law, he took UP" r
say, that the Bill tended more directly to a gr
profligate expenditure. titter,
Lord ALTHORP observed, that a considerable 0
now elapsed since they had been favoured with 104
from the Right Hon. Gentleman in his peeldil,ro
—(A laugh.) He professed to have no knowie°lll',.°Mlif
business of the Court of Chancery, but that gtioa' dt
something to do with the matter wider consider," 00°01
Bill supplies the place of that which cost weol.
70,0001., and it does so for an expense of 26,4°, 60Ye,?'
Right Hon. Gentleman had said, that the presen'a, •
in nt professed to do without patronage. This ,s, Ora'
take—what he (Lord A.) said was, that t'ern,lf
arrived when governing by patronage was at 3",;
he certainly thought that the best plan for an/ to f.
went which merely consulted its own interest vils!?
litiquish altogether the idea of governing by be 4
but when the creation of fresh places was necesori'op
no reason fur abandoning a good measure s°lelY
account. 60°1
Sir C. FORBES expressed his full apoloba ,311'
'
whole measure. Coo
Mr. BURGE called the attention of the
to this fact, that the new provisions, with the 01;1,i0 ie;
Judges, and the Court to be created under_ lidfloy
did not provide for the bankruptcy of all be
confined its operation to London. Thus the outs
to cost 26,400/., when heretofore the whole c°
hut 70,000/.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL begged lls#
tention of the Committee to this fact, that 10e,12
question under their consideration was only 10,4 0 o'4!
were to be paid ; and those lion. Member'
the progress of the Bill in Committee color-were(
former occasion that the salaries of the Judg:041011
small, and now they objected to the Bill as ere Jo °'.oto'
fiigate expenditure. The Bill did not affeet
business of the nation ; but there was no 00e ;pc ficoll
with bankruptcy affairs, who could fora to°ll';Le et I
that, though nominally limited to London, bog' pal
would transact a liege proportion of the centl/rd to tl
boci
Sir C. WETHERELL said that it :c'ut'e err ••tio/
mitted on all hands that the most defeetislo'inislroit
present system was that connected with the yard ;10'
of the bankrupt laws in the country as eOn'u•sti°",f 0,1
London; and yet this Bill left the country trutioo,"tere
gether untouched, and only amended that P olio°
law which was already admitted to be the best 3
tO re,,be

The clause was then agreed to. .til
On clause N coming before the Committee' ulatit),J
Mr. WARBURTON objected to the Wee chill'
existed in the different per centages that vieriace!„lo'
duty on the sums recovered by the official ar'vshe
After a verbal amendment, introduced
NEY-GENERAL, the clause was agreed to. GP•O
Clause 0, o.t the motion of the ArreitoS
was omitted.

AO, nr . ell
va uAs eRPB, PP
t otto lot
done with the surplus of the per centage, when
It
to more than sufficient topay the salariel? elf'
On clause Q,
URTON wanted to hnow 1013'; 0,101
Mr. WAIII3URTON thought that the arrOgrocte`l4'
this clause were so monstrous, that even it eortlir'Jll
this clause, the Commissioners had a rig"
could not stand unaltered for six months. .Accass4
too tio",,
much as five per cent. to the official assigneefo' 01'
lection of the bankrupt's debts ; this he thougllts`,,,eti°,il'
too large a profit ; and it was also highly °vij tho' ,
that the Commissioner was to be supreme, a° . ,i.:
creditors weresto have no voice in the matter. ogorge,V
Mr. Serjeant WILDE thought that the bOtt e jit;erd ` I
the creditor was to leave this per centage 41 t,,,, $ rfr '
of the Commtssioner, who must n cessarily "" retle'?'
character ; and the Hon. Gentleman ought it.°,. the/
that the percentage was allowed not onlY "4 1 t
collected by the official assignee, but for the go' 6
ot
that the bankrupt's affairs inflicted on hint' , re° II'"
Mr. FRESHFIELD said that the greater tto c°l3,ic
quired at the hands of the official assignee `'at'o ttie:epe
the debts of the bankrupt, and to pay thew IP t sO'' flI
of England ; he did not see why the prtu''';',lorill,
were not quite competent to discharge t 1.3 the °,SiF
objected to the great remuneration which t, tr JI l'
assignees would, in some cases,receive for v‘et;beirt/I
services. The Hon. Member quoted a case of otif
1 ruptcy of a sugar•refiner, in which the offici3

Jog
Dd. sill
dim' Jo
g
r
ip
;)
Case
order

c.creo:o:
ov to,
on,

;Old be
orol
there or
?3idee job
Low I
" (a be
vio
were 'id,
of the

of the
salary cool,
o be 3' arm or,
)1. a 1,00
the ell
year 6001,
' istr3rlib of
the I
tf,a
poto-f the
atiea:o,ol,
e the

tgu hoge
c-
,igilcc'iv
the

•OP
GS'
iV

• tO
,i°° od
a it 6°l°

•ratlgel'eeit'd‘'
cc
Aorao
t tu Olt
lee °n •,,oe,
fight ." lig
and
VI
sod t
1,1
rs't t'et•tarittfel
'tbe .!d
ti
Y be ;104,
to the
for 1 try
eper-
-5 „IC,
,t tr
as to e
int° tb,gidijc

,selitatrtir;
48t he °,llr
11
. s'
yeti
e ihe
°` 40%
'1631

at one per cent, would have received. 2 000/. for merely
into' the Bank of
teceiving the property and paying it ,
i_ii,,i„„ would
Ll 4 land. He hoped, least, that the tot t i
~.,,_
at . ,
onimtpt the c
be charged ou the assets to be divided
od bi jt eTt e'datioidnot on the whole credit of the. bankrupt.
and
Paper cent. being inserted in the Ibleill)su,ffili -
thought two cent. on the dividends would
commission
tient and that the remuneration on
slinuld exceed 200/. The }lon. Atlettinieberta,ffeoinaclluadsseidgnle)ye I_l,ronlting, as an amendment, tha
cent. ;
that that sum
should not nOt receive above twrc per
"1Y be paid on the dividends, am' tnhoateotrlniemriesmsion
neration of the official assignee should on
exceed 200/,
Th
these e
ATTORNEY-GENERAL, thought thatlnteNivtahsernootf
to-"eale3rcendments was founded good sense.
gees: expected that the Comionaisss,i,onneeerstheshnouioldlebaeinsnuncti
LIS to give to every official assignee tabilettavrcetre entitled to limits placed to their
cases Y was what hagdivbeeenhaftound netcnesgsiavrey
thein extremeassignee
• The principle of the clause washe
collected, and he
tahrethuteration on all the monies
assignee
that the Commissioners were not likely to give the
suet
C. more than he ought to have.
. p A
tilt*, GET admitted that
too much
in
ottaerten some cases, and 12 esr/e.epnetr.
mceingth.tnliiieght not be
estion.
the r,_ ' In his opinion, therefore,p. it was nportohparholliyer
the
ere,i.'°ll4nittee to decide this
the
(mops
ie „ : clight, as more fit to. alpupOr.tioannd thehe
the- '4,lgotes than the Commissioners, robjectedewa rd ot
of
handsPatt" of bestowing these rewards being left in the
ef the Court.
Thed ho
the
defeßnidiledwntuhled clause,
bee,
4,n,h-cw,Ped the Commissioners under the.
rs.
They were
11neodeti with the present Commissioners. 4)te like Judges.
ZAfter few
israir,' •11'.. Burge, Sir ir C. Wetherell, Mr. John
`•••• Forbes • d Mr. Warburton.
.
lezt!lr• PittsildFalELD withdrew,
Art agreed, as we understand, • itinthaemweatodrnd'sengt'ivainngd ita
,vorcdntage should be struck. ?utt3,arsleaying the clause. 80
the power of fixing
the red 4 to give the Commissioners
0441'..tineration of the official assignees. at their discretion.
"le compensation clause being read,
II1Q11.• lee
Mr. Serjeant Wilde, Mr. Pawgenti,dsll.lr.
Tirennota,aasinl Sir' CharlesWetherell said a few
added to the Bill.
The _ e was then
Ptest,;4TTORNEY-GENERAL brought up a colianuteed,
4td"lng that the Judges and other officers app
..
kerZ tiliti.l3ill should be incapable of sitting in Parlia-
,th ich was agreed to.
agreed to.
The Preamble was then put and -
t,,,Cd"e House resumed. The report was bro.ugehtthuispdaanyd.
Lord t' and the bill ordered to be. read a third time
ilov ALTHORP gave notice
,that on.
it.h.is day he would
i4iire that the House ad•ourn to Diursd, y
hoe, s.,,ugar it-tHe-ry ilill, the Tithe Compensation Bill,
llitt e prescription Bill were then postponed to that day
,e Weeks
, a 4 ~., •
tiot, umer Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the
4, adjourned at a Quarter-past Three.
1 I/0 USE OF LORDS,
itt p:.!e
,-Ittn CHANCELLOR
The 2 c ock.
1.1
L'
' took his seat°c Toni' I;hße IW7.oolsack
Nshi Duke of CUMBERLAND,
on Saturdayee Learned Lord on
teac respecting a inquiredlsaekin tiv,ihsetrleiemrnrtkh.se
ihine'l Friend of his (LopradintEhpell:liNoent alluOdendttlateap•Niretio)ifetahnadt
Withe and Learned Lord he disclaimed any connection
Tyre Pamphlet,the.;hl-ORD CHANCELLOR meant no allusion to
ere that the author
Lek Ve and Learned Lord allindled to by the Illustrious
011 i: Ll's (the Chancellor's) words
1411 e ParnPhlet was the venerablewFathier
st 4, lar• Now, though the Noble and
'lie, a verY old and venerable man, still
had
Learned o f
the
E Lordng
1 1 of the bar• One other remark he dwinasa,nleotusteheoff_a.
I"lit'liad flat Only called him the
rfaitliineartoofrtnlsfeLEanwglßiself.&_,l:mar.,
•\ttave,had said he was also theo
hg
that he one could suppose (witty t
Learned
"e WI Chancellor) meant the Noble and
ese words in his mind),
(P.l4n, e
~,, J,
1 el'le b.uke of C'UMBERLAND expressed himself per-
The'Yted with the explanatioan.
oitrtudege
it:
omanec Id
Vestpassreide
s.
Til:° Iliri:4l2ll)atiell.eirliielsi wßai Isl readw en
Itiltliliril
liiii. e °use tben went into Con the
to
b 1.:110.1i
INV:?NrORD inquired whether Billthetries. was
:La-c`rd-eA(4lE'Llatarishes in wh.ich weraenyoppeanrivsels, _
14 Lill i 0 URNE said that
. - might adopt
l• 'y
earn 'IYi g with its provisions. .
-nlo \\Ty , 1 • n ' w 1 the Bill, in its present
'tits,
would
ntM:OIID thought
Noble Viscount lint.
:lan een (1-
14144 I- ORI2I('C tIeAsNoCfaErLLOR rose to sup
Wae , The Noble and Learned Lord satihdel,"ptrhteaateteattele Billand
e„lltentt.only looked to with anxietyy
throughout the
csontratde inhabitants of the parishes..
list it Y, and more especially of the parish es in great towns,
Prey Wneld& in hie opinion, tend very
,iml.ucl;,. ttobetsheelaii,ivi-s
wereercent of the Parochial laws in
trid h bell regulated, they tended veigyeanUchotpoertaliteedeotin,nftoiriet
trtkt iliieS; but if ill regulated, they ,
Wer t'lnecinvenienee of his Majesty's liege u(l)fjeicatns:iliesi,laierside
lie seli "Ns that came home to the bosom
tr''!ed(ltdbreti a great interest in them wshether, they inte-
itlN ~.. er people or not.
4at ,„1" Parishes where ti ereTwheera Billno ".s.ealedcdt vestries rti (els' ea
at (aal.l-.
nrder 74°Y thousand persons shouldmassnefintbblee together in
of Ina
tatieh a constitute the administrati 1
111 i ought contrary to all sound principles
'„
to be done by delegation, an . a odf. , conduct.gthe
ti. till!its, of tlettion, and the lepresentattivbeeysiirb,eleinliteell
le
Th,•-tetiole b h alit to exercise
hole c
,n-
-5 "511
obeys yt
ey
'Rl'possible that the w .
ected
stita er num than it was poss!
..
, eri,ation
all .' 'er ei:tild. This was a Tor, a( 'zit:.
kingdoms.
liirpli.tehdert(e)
Ivere :14 cf Parishes as well as to those o.t, eta
t°4te parts of the Bill which had cprritayinilyprlendfeshsiin(iinta(l)
iltali":-41n doubts it it had been drawn u' )-
intended that
1„1!,e hill
she greAter mischief which it w
""ieh •Li'utould collect was that of the self-electedll. irs of a parish
I,,etali, Ilt the management of the a. t
" vestries,
—to
indtr'lvitt,ii the hands;
t principle of the
'lh* °4t f the of the parishioners thlelinnseulgyle,st.
14" i ''l
"'ir otherLnlh. great
let the Bill be adoßpitedilis
rlei,t-! the bulk sof'Ptsvhose inhabitants wei:leauseboyseedvertyn
disposed
adop.
tieo„ltt• ith. respect to the fundamental r.,
adoption not to , a
(::'lang-e',eiteleause which the amendment would so inaatenriiaailoly_
, Y ill , Ouse
the power of
41a•i'tit,,Fn`ePayers assembled at any rneetirisign,f batr.certrtsain
N05,,1, of two-thirds of all the rate-payers
provision, no adop•
tis,
e•;e, ni the district. By this latter
li.lY of s'i mold take place in any parish
'441. the whole of the rate-payers should concur in opi-
,unless the 1"..)'-
st,,',:ipilat.,,,l;rv._it should happenlr that two to one of the actual
great
„it)1!1,, i;',Yymipossible for a parisl7tionioahnt'aisntitillielta&wlyeaunitdagbees
190 would be a.
.d
~"..lotit„ ' For instance, ISO or a majority di
I.'ot 1 out of 300 voters, and such
i 0 But occur in assembly where
,partiesmnereatn_
(ok 4sut „ .f any majority in al y
not
wete
to en i a greater.
nitiy 0, be obtained, still (lie parish would.
was
the majority
:afheis„;e bnefit it required, nine" , e
not pr„ent.
It ~, •-•‘• toe beat those voters that lc er
present had
fieat.ll4 ,°f no importance that the ""1 " discussion
Lpou t,ll-
- arguments and had attended to the
to
'1 tt'e
4414jen' the absentees would beallowed
absentees
°Ntilitti all the rest, Not even a majority
of
parish, the
111,() bet, stayed Of 300 rate-payers of a 199 of
555-' plvri.L '‘ayed awa might neutralize the votes of
ntt: -`)1)% present Y But, what was more, the 100 al).
yet, if
they `n 'night 1 . to the Bill ; and
ey did lave rlO objection .
ts.ild NA take the trouble to send in their votes, they
endedaqllP-9y prevent the object of the 199 who ha,,donalts
41'Y tli•'ne dici:v.:l6n and taken the trouble
,to vote..s ...‘' The
ttboorrot:Z.garbdeertinlovraes mtooneastlerouulastealitid:eabnsulimrdhe.trnapifi tfii
Chmiate,,Payers. llow he was to do this,
oitee
uefllor) could not say, for be had
.jir6cm °hotchwarden This would benoenveelofsethe, most
he
• votes(
trilvee dof Lordtah I
aeli,),., teska that could fall on any mortal churchwarden,
°f me teas liie to know the opinions and collect the
w.,a
ght "'road, 'ori,--,En •n `opinions
country, or of
ime
bale_
'4, ,4 the time be attending to their brusiiiess c,sew
a:.
the rc,"lebwarden was to say whether two-thirds of
thief
Lor(i4,le-Payers were in favour of the measure.
:Llittlik:dijrnu:..:.:.ti'wetaert::ren,:irrillakieiti)t,e)nehd,adianini:d(ei ietrpodrfov:nni,tasiti7g, couldamn edn doubt Isiveli e(tNl,!ear,
anaotthebehi
could not show any disrespect goat:l:Ceetaohieniiii.l
itiitte I"Ps if housered upon this subject.
tif
titt aentees
shouldn tol
tr tie
the tel of that
th,-t 's4e who resent. But a proxy did not tell upon
ding allotted to ROUVuerri‘tly' 11 aelti In
at
ISlte, vtOit' east
41'41Pei °f ether House, if it were not actually g.invre-
dict ;'4le aid.: or the other : but in parish affairs, accord-
all
given
or riot
fur
Hip, the proXy.wo‘ald tell tyliether it was
of
till 0, tor the churchwarden must declare the majority elate rate PaYers to he in favour of the measure, and the
hf.juoteen who might be favourable to it must be pi o-
thint,c'ed as hostile if the churchwarden could not aseertanii:),
4(1014 °Pitlio!w• He trusted that their Lordships wofear
,41/r.tattripat,i(riji.i6shilkiill with the amendment. There was no
ners would not meet in sufficient nurnt!ers
tli4t ti, e Measure was to be proposed, and he believed
,11..."'" who weuld oppose it were more likely to attend
tiobeeeting than tl.ose who were in its favour, for in pa-
this
4 present tlais was often the ease. The parish °

St. Pancras had had an open vestry before Mr. Sturges
Bourne's act of 1809. It had then between 8,000 and
9,000 rate payers, but now he believed the numbers
amounted to about 11,000. Seldom more than 1,000 of
these rate-payers used to attend any meeting, but if the
adoptio❑ of this Bill were to be mooted, probably 2,000
would now attend, and those who did not would enter into
discussions with those who did, and influence their votes;
and in which case the majority of the 2,000 would speak
the sense of the parish, but, by the present Bill, such a
meeting of 2,000 persons would be absolutely useless.
Even if 6,000 persons were to attend, and to be unani-
mous, their votes would be ineffectual, because they would
not amount to two-thirds of the whole rate-payers. This
was the view he took of the measure, and he uttered it as
a redemption of the pledge which he had given, that he
would look into the question. He bad no prejudice in
favour of the Bill, or the amendment, but be considered
the subject upon the principles upon which all deliberative
bodies were founded.

Lord FEVERSHAM said a few words upon the Bill,
which were inaudible at the bar of the House.
The Earl of H ADDINGTON thought that the sugges-
__

tinn which he was about to offer very briefly to the House
would reconcile the differences which existed in the opinions
of their Lordships upon the subject. He would let the de-
cision of the point be left to two-thirds of the rate-payers
present, if they formed a majority of the whole. It was
desirable that the Bill should not be imposed upon a parish
but by a majority of all the rate-payers. What he meant
was this,—suppose there were 399 rate-payers in a parish,
and that 300 of them should vote, then what he meant
was, that 200 or two-thirds of the voters should settle the
question. He hoped that he had made himself el fatly
understood.

The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that the Bill
did not contemplate any public meeting, but there could
be no doubt that the question would substantially be de-
cided by such meetings. He thought that there was a
great deal in the suggestion of the Noble Earl (Hadding-
ton), and that its adoption would be an improvement to
the Bill.

The Dal of FALMOUTH thought that property to a
certain extent should be the rate of voting. The majority
under the present Bill was left at two-thirds of the rate-
payers. That numerical majority might, in tniny parishes
in the country, not comprise the one-twentieth of the
property in the parish. The Noble and Learned Lord
opposite had drawn an analogy between their Lordships
voting, and parishes voting under the provisions of this
Bill. Now it did not appear to him that that analogy was
at all a correct one, nor did he perceive the least similarity
between the legislative proceedings of that House, and the
proceedings of parishes under this Bill.
The LORD CHANCELLOR did not think that in one
respect there was the slightest &fference between them;
and in the instance to which he alluded, he would main-
tain that parishes would exercise an act of legislatio❑ pre-
cisely similar to that which was exercised by their Lord.
ships. When the present Bill was passed, its adoption
would be left optional with the various parishes in the
kingdom. Now the voting this Act to be the law in any
parish would be an act of legislation in the strictest sense
of the word. If such an act was not a legislative one,
he did not know the distinction.

Lord WYNFORD was of opinion, that the church-
wardens should calculate the number of those that actually
voted, and that two-thirds of them, under the regula►ion
proposed by the Noble Earl (Haddington), should early
the question. lle also thought that there should be a•
scale of votes, graduated according to the amount of pro.
petty assessed, and that for every 25/. for which an indi-
vidual was rated, beyond the original assessment from
which he derived his first vote, he should be entitled to a
vote, limiting the number of votes to which any individual
could thus become entitled to six.

Lord MELBOURNE had no objection totlie proposi-

tion made by the Noble Earl (Haddington), nor bad he
any objection to the first part of the proposition of the
Noble and Learned Lord ; but he did object to that part
of the Noble and Learned Lord's proposition which was
founded on the principle of Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act.
As the Noble and Learned Lordhatfa clause to propose
to that effect, he (Lord Melbourne) would now state his
objections to it. He would fairly say, that he for one
entirely disapproved of all devices which would regulate
the voting, either of two-thirds, three-fifths, or any other
number, according to the principle of property. All
such devices were of modern invention, and they were

just as little known as ancient principles, as the principle
of election, or any other new principle with re-
gard to voting, which Ministers had been.. attacked
. .

for introducing in the Reform measure. The prin-
ciple of voting according to property, he repeated,
was entirely of modern invention. It was quite as
modern as that which regulated the right of voting ac-
cording
to population. He would not on this occasion go
into a discussion of the principles of the Reform measure,
at the same time that it must be admitted, that the right
of voting in parishes was placed upon the saute bisis as the
right of voting in counties and towns. Now, it could not
be denied that the ancient frame of the representation in
this country was not founded on population, for Rutland,
for instance, had an equal number of representatives with
Yorkshire. It was not, then, founded 611 population;
neither could it be said to be based upon property, for the
voters i❑ counties were freeholders ; then there were scot
and lot voters, and the man who was *orth 20,0001.
possessed only a single vote, as well as the 40s. freeholder.
He would therefore say, that the introduction of a gra-
duated scale of property, as regulating the votes at elec-
tions, was, comparatively speaking, as new and unprece-
dented as any principle could possibly be, and that it was
a very unfounded and pernicious one. It was a principle
which struck at the root of all Government, and especially
at the foundation of a popular Government. It was a
principle which would give to a minority, no matter how
small, the government of the majority, and it was one in
fact which would tend to the destruction of any
thing that was stationary in human affairs.—(Hear.)
It was a principle, he repeated, which struck at
the root of Government, for under it the great ma-

jority might be completely overborne by a small and trifling
minority in point of numbers. In a parish, for instance,
where this principle would be introduced, and where an
individual might have a vote for every 251. for which he
was rated beyond the amount which gave him his' first
vote, with the number of votes that any man could have
limited to six, ten persons so circumstanced might over-
bear a numerical majority of fifty-nine other individuals,
who were possessed only of single votes. If they intro-
duced such a principle as that into the Bill, the mea-
sure, instead of allaying excitement, and producing satis-
faction, would be attended by much greater discontent
and dissatisfaction than even at present existed on the sub-
ject to which this Bill related. Again, he would depre-
cate the adoption of such a principle so much calculated
to produce dissatisfaction, disturbance, and excitement, and
so pregnant with all those evil consequences, to remedy
which the present measure was intended.
The Earl of FALMOUTH did not think that the
principle which the Noble Lord so strongly condemned
was such a completely novel one as he had represented,
nor that it was one which was in so much disfavour with
the Legislature of this country. It was one which their
Lordships had adopted the other day i❑ the Tithes Cow-
position Bill, under which the majority should he 3-stlis
in number and value. Seeing the ti icks, jobbing, and
party spirit that prevailed in parishes, the adoption of
some ouch principle was abocdutely necessary, to counter-
vail and to prevent such a state of things.

Lord MELBOURNE remarked, that what he had said
was, that the
rtinciple in question was one of modern in-
vention. Ile was well aware th.at it had been adopted at
the India House, and in other places.
Lord WYNFORD said the principle had been acted
upon at the India House for a cen'ury ; under the bank-
ruptcy law the same principle was observed. In fact, in
all mattes connected with property, the right .of Voting
was graduated according to property, and he would there-
fore contend that the same principle should be adhered to
in this instance.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that the Noble and
Learned Lord opposite had talked of meetings of 2,000
end 3,000 and 15,000 persons, discussing and deciding
upon the adoption or rejection of this Bill in parishes.
Now, there could not possibly be any discussions in meet-
ings of that description. Such bodies would be necessarily
obliged to come ti.o a decision at once! This I3ill had been
introduced for the professed object of removing dissatis-
faction in certain parishes in London. Why, then, he
would ask, was it not confined to London ?
Lord MELBOURNE said, that there were similar com-
plaints from parishes in the large towns throughout the
kingdom, such as Bristol, Birminehatn, &c.
The Duke of WELLINGTON did not think that that
was any good reason fur extending the Bill over the whole
country. Why was not Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act, which
had been found to work go well and to give so ranch satis-
faction in the pa' ashes in the country where it had been
introduced,—why was not that Act introduced into the
metropolitan parishes for the purpose of remedying the
evils which were complained of? He did not see any
reason why such a Bill as that should not be adopted in
this instance. He thought that the provision of this Bill,
which left it optional with parishes to adopt or to reject
it, was pregnant with contention and excitement. If the
law were a good one, why should it not be declared at
once to be the law of the land If it were to be adopted,
it should be declared at once to be the law of the land,

and the adoption of it should not be left at the option of
individual parishes.
The Earl of HADDINGTON said that the particular
and local Acts by which several of the parishes in London
were regulated had reference to a great variety of matter,,
—such as the collection of local taxes, as well as the
constitution of their vestries, and they therefore stood in
the way of the application of Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act
to the metropolis. He would briefly state the amendment
which be was desirous to see introduced into this Bill.
This object was to provide that the voters, of whom two-
thirds should decide upon the adoption or non-adoption of
this Act in a parish, should constitute a clear majority of
the rate-payers in such parish. By that means a small
numbers of voters would be prevented from determining
that point, and introducing this Act into a parish where,
in fact, the majority of the rate-payers might be opposed
to its introduction. The Noble Lord concluded by mov-
ing, that after the words " if two-thirds of the votes have
been given for the adoption of said Act," the following
words should be inserted—" Provided always, that the
whole number of persons present on such an occasion
shall constitute a clear majority of the rate-payers in the
said parish."
Lord MELBOURNE had no objection to the intro
dnction of these words into the Bill. It was said that
this Bill should have been confined to the metropolitan
parishes. The exigence of the evils, however, which it
was intended to remedy, was also complained of in the
parishes in Bristol, Birmingham, and the other large towns
throughout the country. Afi': Sturges Bourne's Act
would never answer as a remedy for those evils, and
he was sure that there was not one of the parishes in
London, for whose benefit this measure was intended,
that would be disposed to adopt that Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
The Members of the select vestries in the parishes in
London, themselves admitted that the existing system was
one that should be put an end to, and the object of this
Bill was to introduce a better one.

The Earl of FALMOUTH thought that the Bill
should at least be limited to the parishes in London and
in the great towns, and that it should not be extended to
the rural parishes, front which there had been no com-
plaints on the subject.
The Earl of HARROWBY thought that the plain •
and simple remedy for the existing state of things was, to
make Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act applicable to the parishes
in the metropolis, and in the great towns throughout the
kingdom. One single short enactment leaving it at the
option of those parishes to adopt Mr. S. Bourne's Act
would be the best course of proceeding at present, and in
the interval that must elapse between the prorogation of
the present session and the commencement of the next, a
full and proper consideration could be given to the provi-
sions of this tnea,ure. Under the pressure of the great and
vital question that had occupied their attention for some
time backoheir Lordships had not been able to give a due
portion of their attention to this measure, and he was of
opinion therefore that the course of proceeding which he
had just recommended would be the most advisable one to
adopt.
Lord MELBOURNE said, that the existence of local
acts in the parishes at present exempted from the operation
of Mr. S. Bourne's Act, stood in the way of its introduc-
tion into them, and he was satisfied that its introduction
into the parishes which complained of the existing system,
would not be at all calculated to produce that content and
tranquillity the establishment of which was the object of
this measure. lie was fully sensible of the inconvenience
that attended the discussion of such a measure as this at
this late period of the session. The excitement and dis-
content, however, which at present existed, and various
other considerations, into the nature of which he should
not then go, pressed for the speedy adoption of some such
• measure as this, and he thought that it was better to pass
this Bill, even at the hazaro of its having some defects in
it, than to leave the law in its present state.
The Eat I of FALMOUTH again repeated, that this Act
should not be extended to the rural parishes, which, speak-
ing from his own experience, he should state were perfectly
satisfied with Mr. S. Bourne's Act. _

Lord MELBOURNE said, he certain'y had not received
any complaints from the parishes in the country, but the
Noble Earl must be aware that much popular di.content
and dissatisfaction had existed on the, subject throughout
the kingdoth. It was impossible to confine this Bill to the
great towns, unless their names were specially introduced
into it, and besides, its adoption w3s not made compulsory
upon any parish, either in town or country. It would be
at the option, therefore, of the rural parishes, to adopt or
reject it, as they shOuld think fit. —(Hear.)
The amendment was then put and agreed to.
Several other clauses were then agreed to without dis-
cussion.

A "NOBLE LORD, whose name we could not learn, pro-
posed an amendment in the clause which regulates the
qualification of voters at the election of vestrymen. This
amendment was not read either by the Noble Lord or by
the Chairman ; but we are told that the purport of it
was to establi.h a graduated scale of voters, giving to each
individual a certain number of votes, in proportion to the
amount of rates paid by him, but limiting such number of
votes to six.

The Earl of MULGRAVE should certainly oppose the
amendment. The rates would be forced rates; each per-
son would be rated according to his means, and the small
means of a poor man were as valuable to him as the greater
means of a rich man were valuable to the rich man. There
ought, therefore to an equality in the right of voting. He
trusted that the House would reject an amendment which,
it adopted, would lead to the most disastrous consequenres.
The Earl of FALMOUTH wished to know upon what
principle of equity it could be contended that a man who
paid 2s. fid. a year, ought to be placed on the same foot-
ing with a in in who paid 1001. a year ?
Lord MELBOURNE said that the original right was
that every rate-payer should vote equally, and that all the
Acts which had been passed since had been so many limi-
tations of that original right. He thought the principle of
equity, which the Noble Earl could not see, was perfectly
clear ; and he could conceive nothing more unlike equity
than, in the election of a body like this, to refu‘e a vote to
any rate-payer who was to be subject to its regulations.
The Committee then divided, and the numbers were—
For the amendment 3S
Against it
Majority against the amendment
The original clause was then agreed to, as also were all
the subsequent clauses. The House resumed.—Report to
be received to-morrow (this day).
The Earl of FALMOUTH gave notice, that he should
to-morrow move that the operation of the Bill be confined
to those parishes which had complained of the present
system.

EAST INDIA AFFAIRS.
On the motion of Lord ELLENIIOICOCOIi, it was agreed
to solid a message to the Commons, to ask for a copy of
the reporti of the Committee of that House upon East
Indian affairs.
CONSOLIDATED FUND BILL.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY having moved that this
Bill be read a third time,
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that he rose, pur-
suant to the notice he had given, for the purpose of sub- •
mitting to their Lordships some observations respecting the
financial condition of the country. lie was aware that it
was usual, on occasions like the present, to advert as well
to the evernal as to the internal policy of the country,—
to the measures emanating front both,,—to the effects
which those measures had produced, and to the effects
which those measures were likely to produce. Although,
however, there were sonic topics connected with our foreign
policy to which lie might be anxious to a•lvert,—although
there was one of these which was already ripe for di-cos-
sion, the papers connected with it being already on their
table,—yet it was not his intention to trouble their Lord-
ships, on the present occasion, with any allusion to fttreign
affairs, because I e should have other opportunities for this,
and btcause their Lordships had already been wearied with
a very long diketission. He shouhl, therefore, confine him-
self entirely to the state of the finances of this country,
and to comparison between their present state and what
tiny had been before. The country now found itself in
this singular situation,—namely, that with an increased
expenditure, and with a large reduction of taxation, it had
at the same time no overplus.of revenue over expenditure,
or at least so trifling an overplus, that it might fsi;ly be
culhd none at alj, b;ling, s Oc simuld presently
*how, not more than about 10,0001. He said that the
country was in this situation now, for he put out
of the question the Ministers' coming down to Par-
liament, and asking for such an overplus—such
a margin—for those accidental and unforeseen expenses
which must necessarily occur in so large a revenue as this
country had the happiness to boast of. Now a ,urpins'orin:
come over expenditure had always been Considertd desir-
able in this country ' with a view to the diminution of the
public debt. fie was aware thhat there was great differ-
ence of opinion connected with this point. Ile syg aware
that many great atltherities were of opinion that no such
surplus of income over expenditure was necessary ; and
he agreed with those authorities, when they said that this
surplus ought not to Le increased by borrowing, and so
incurring new liabilities for the purpose of getting rid of
old ones. At the same time, however, be could not look at
what had taken place in this country of late years,—even
during the short time he had the honour of being in lily
Majesty's councils,—without being
sensible of what very
great advantages had resulted, amid must result, from such
'
au overplus of income over expenditure as would tend to

the gradual diminution of the public debt. lle was
within the truth when he stated to their Lordships, that
since the peace the interest of the public debt had been re-
duced to an amount equal to what would pay the interest
of 100,000,000/. of stock ; and he thought their Lord-
ships must therefore see that some overplus of income at
least was highly desirable. But this was not all. Consi-
dering the hopes which had been held out at a different
times by persons at the head of the financial department,
that there should always be such an overplus provided—
considering the wishes which had been constantly ex-
pressed on this subject by all the Committees on financial
affairs, and even by the last Finance Committee—consi-
dering these things, he thought that he was not saying too
much, when he said that it was a principle of the financial
policy of this country that there should be an annual sur-
p'us of income over expenditure to be applied to the gra-
dual diminution of the public debt. Besides these consi-
derations their Lordships must be aware that much of the
revenue of the country depended upon the seasons, and
that almost all of it depended upon consumption. Their
Lordships, too, must be aware that consumption depended
upon taste and fashion, and upon those changes in taste
and fashion over which no man could have any controul.
Thus, then, their revenue was subjected to very material
variations, the precise amount of which could not be fore-
seen, and which could be provided fur only by a surplus
of income. It was on this principle that the Government
to which lie had the honour to belong had proceeded in
the last year. In the preceding year they had arranged
so as to have had a diminution of the unfunded debt to the
amount of 130,000/. a year ; and in the course of the
years 1828, 1829, and 1830, they had produced a dimi-
nution of expenditure to the amount of not less than
3,575,000/. Their expenditure being in 1827, 51,390,000/.
and in 1830, 47,815,0001. This difference was produced by
three years' close attention to economy. They reduced the
services estimated for Parliament from 18,245,000/., to
which they amounted in 1827, to 16,550,000/., which
was their amount in 1830, making a difference of
1,500,000/. Besides this they had reduced their expen •
diture,in the last year—that was to say, the year 1829-30
by an amount of 1,100,0001., and furthermore, they laid
the ground for a diminution, by reducing the Four per
Cents., of 788,000/. a year. They had, therefore, made
a reduction not of 3,500,000/. only, but, in fact, a reduc-
tion of more than 4,000,000/. Having- made such a reduc-

tion of expenditure, they considered themselves justified in
proposing a large reduction of taxation. They did propose
such a reduction accordingly, and, with the consent of
Parliament, they took off taxes to the amount of 3,350,000/.
When they made this proposition to Parliament, they had a
revenue which was estimated at—and he believed did not
produce less than-50,480,0001. Their expenditure was
only 47,815,0001. They had also, besides this, as he had al-
ready stated, the prospect of a farther reduction by reducing
the Four per Cents, to the amount of 788.0001. By deduct-
ing this prospective reduction from their expenditure, their
expenditure would be made 47,027,0001. ; and the differ-
ence, therefore, between their income and their expenditure
was 3,453,000/. By repealing taxes to an amount grater
than 3,000,000/., they had remaining but a very small
surplus of income over expenditure. But then, at the
same time, they laid on an additional duty on spirits,
and they had every reason to expect that, by the repeal of
the beer tax, a very considerable increase of the revenue
would result from additional production from the malt tax,
and he believed that the Noble Lords opposite would ac li
-
knowledge that they bad found that this expectation of
their predecessors bad been realized. They had hoped,
too, that another year would give them still better pros-
pects; for at that time they had not had the good for-
tune of the French revolution.—(A laugh.) They had,
however, a large fleet in the Mediterranean, which the
settlement of the affairs of Greece had rendered it necessary
to keep up ; but as soon as that settlement should have
been accomplished, they had intended to put down that
fleet, and to bring the navy estimates, like the army esti-
mates, within the frame of a peace establishment. They
had hoped, and he thought reasonably, that by these means
they should have had a surplus of income over expendi-
ture to the amount of nearly 2,000,000/. sterling. It
was in this condition of affairs that the Noble Lords oppo-
site had come into office. Those Noble Lords had found
themselves under the necessity of increasing all the mili-
tary establishments, all the navy establishments, and, in short,
all the establishments which their predecessors had been
occupied for so many years past in endeavouring to re-
duce. The estimates for their establishments exceeded the
same estimates of their predecessors by about 930,0001.
At least this was the amount of the apparent excess : but
then he must observe that the real excess was 200,0001.
or 300,0001. more ; for the fact was, that the Ordnance
was not charged to its full amount, a part of the expenses
for it having been provided for by the sale of stores, in-
cluding even arms belonging to the department.—( Hear,
hear, from the Opposition.) Thus the charge for the
Oidnanee appeared smaller than in fact the necessary ex-
penses of the department amounted to ; and the difference

therefore, between the estimates of the Noble Lords oppo-
site and those of their predecessors would have been
1,200,000/., and not 930,0001., if part of the ways and
means for providing for the expenses of the Ordnance de-
pal tment had not been derived from the sale of stores.
However, the Noble Lords opposite must admit that the
excess, according to their own reckoning, stood at
930,0001. Now the revenue upon which the Noble

higher than they (the late Administration) had calculated
they u
after deducting the taxes
Lords calculated was 47,250,00 W., which was a little
Lords would amount to 47,239,85 W., which, subtracted
tlierleivaednreed foru reduced. Then ycarltBh3el, expenditure of the Noble
from the revenue of 47,250,000/. would leave a surplus
of only 10,1501. This, and no more, was the surplus of
income over expenditure in a great country like this.
(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) He was
perfectly well aware that the Noble Lord, the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, had made out the surplus to be much
greater ; but then the Noble Lord had been able to make
out his amount of surplus in no other way than by resort-
ing to a mode of calculating which was quite new in the
financial system of this country. The revenue was ad-
mitted to be 4.7,250,00 W. The expenditure, however,
the Noble Lord calculated in this way. The Noble Lord
took what had been expended and what might, be ex-
trended, but not what Parliament had voted. The Noble
Lordl
We have spent already 35,221,643/. ; for
e remainder
of the year I will allow 11,534,578/. ; so
t said—'`
that our whole expenditure will amount to 46,756,2211."
Bautitsfc thisto way of calculating could not be considered asy.
The votes which had been agreed to by
satisfactory,
Parliament amounted to 47,239,8501. ; the revenue was
calculated at 47,"250,000/. ; and the surplus, therefore, of
itncome over expenditure was, as he had made it out,
101 pj„ and not 49.3,000/. as the Chaucelicr of
the Exchequer, by his mode of calculating, repre-
sented it to be. Now lie was quite sure that their
Lordships would see through the fallacy of this state-
ment. It might be true that it would not be neces-
sary to provide, during this year, for a greater outlay than
bad been stated by the Chancellor of the Eicittequei;
but although a nation, like at: ind;yidual, might not
be called upon to dischiqga within the year all the
liabi-
lities contracted by theirs during that year, yet he must
-ay that both the nation and the individual ought, in cal-
culating their expenditure and receipts, to ;et the elitpen-
diture find the Veceiptt ei;;Ilt year against one another ;
and if the question was one of defraying yearly expenditure
by means of yearly receipts, to provide for the liabilities
contracted in one year out of the receipts of the same year.
He must contend, therefore, that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had introduced into the finarreial ;strut
of die
country quite a new principle--a principle which in any
times but the present wouid not have been listened to for
a moment, even if any Chancellor of the Exchequer had
brought it forward, which he did not think would haye
been likely in any other times than these. Laving
this prospect before them. nu'Liters Lad thought
rope{' "LW tq clOnnat to a large reduction of taxation.
;ley had repealed the duties on coals, which pro-
duced to the revenue 950,000/. a year : they had made
an alteration in the cotton duties, by which, as he under-
stood, the revenue would lose 300,000/. a year more ;
besides these, they had made a pro:pool:7e i•epi.al Uf the
candle duties, by which thg reyou;i;l lidv,hl sustain a further
loss of 500,000ra year, Two of these alterations took
t'ilaee iii the month of March last, and the other was to
commence in February. With every allowance for in-
crease of consumption, he thought that the loss of income
which would result from these alterations in th,o Neaidit
year, coma rant be calculated at Ices ; and
this, therefore woold t. ve Leen 56`much surplus revenue
at tb'E if" the'laxes had been retained. But let
their' Lordship: look at the next year. Then there, would
be, by the coal tax, the c.rtton duties, anti ;he ;:ratl!, tax,
more than 1,700,000/. Wien from a -ievewie which already
exceeded-the expenditure by isp more than 10,0001. He
was (".1`:'• 9flll,oSe Whp.sald, a long, time ago, that he thought
0;1 repeal of the coal tax a very proper measure, if it were
proper to repeal any tax ; but the Noble Earl should recol.
lest that he (the Duke of Wellington) had told him that
the mode to supply-
the consumer with cheap coal*, wo..lnot
to begin by repealing the tax, but by tout.,`,ing an end to the
abuses in the cord trade----(llear.) These abuses were
still in eistc:.:ice. What Were the consequences produced
by the cOafition between the coal producer, and the per-
sons engaged in bringing the article to market ? Why,
that while 950,000/. was lost to the revenue of theconntry,
only 2s. a chaldron were saved by the consumer ; the re-
. 'paining4s, going to the
producer and conveyor of the

ogle, who, in addition to their other weighty profits, bad
nosy got the greater part of the King's duty. Their Lord-
ships would now see that this was not the exact way in
which the finances of the country ought to be regulated.
And when their Lorslships came to look at the conse-
quences of the repeal of this tax, and how little benefit it
produced to the consumer, they would feel the strength
and burden of his observations, that it was most desirable
to have a surplus of the revenue over the expenditure to
meet contingencies. If other circumstances rendered such
a provision a matter of comparative indifference, still it
was certainly more desirable to have the money lying in
the Exchequer rather than in the pockets of the producer
or the person by whom the coals were transported to Lon-
don or elsewhere. Their Lordships would observe, that
he had not said that he was averse to the repeal of this
tax ; what he had stated was, that it was expedient, in re-
pealing it, to give the consumer, not the producer, the
full benefit of the measure, and that the repeal should only
take place when Government was quite sure that the
produce of the tax was not essential to the King's revenue.
He made these observations because, looking to the pre-
ceding year, he was convinced that the revenue was tend-
ing to a state of great confusion ; and the Noble Earl, in
case any accident shoul l occur, —in case of any thing un-
foreseen arising in the tnoney-market,—something, for
instance, with respect to the funding of Exchequer-bills,
the Noble Earl, he repeated, would find himself in a po-
sition of the greatest possible embarrassment.—(Hear.)
Earl GREY apologized for not being so well prepares'
as he ought to be to answer the statements of the Noble
Duke, partly because he did not know how far the Noble
Duke intended to go, and partly because he was not very
familiar with the details brought before the House. He
woulal, however, explain to their Lordships in a few words
his reasons for dissenting from the view of the financial
state of the country taken by the Noble Duke. With the
first principle advanced by the Nob'e Duke he entirely
agreed. He was of opinion that it was both convenient
and desirable that there should be a surplus revenue to
meet any contingent expenditure ; but when it was laid
down that there was a necessity for a Sinking Fund,
—for any thing raised by taxation to be applied to the
reduction of the immense mass of debt,—he was de-
cidedly against all such plans of taxation, as he ascer-
tained the conviction that to leave the money in the
pockets of his Majesty's industrious subjects, agricul-
tural, manufacturing, and commercial, was a much
better means of meeting the burdens that pressed upon
the empire, and much more likely to lighten them,
than any expedient like the old one cf a sinking fund.
It might be prudent to apply to such a purpose what could
be spared, after providing fur foreseen and unforeseen ex-
penses ; but he did not think it proper to levy fresh taxes,
or to continue old ones that pressed upon the industry of
the country ; it was wiser to leave these resources with
individuals to assist the various interests of which the
aggreg ,te prosperity of the nation was composed. The
Noble Duke had entered into an exposition of the condition
of the public finances when lie vacated office, and he (Earl
Grey) was willing to give him credit for reduction which
lie believed to be his due. Including the Four per Cents.
the Noble Duke laid claim to reductions amounting to
Above 1,000,000/. Ile had nut the figures before him,
but while he was ready to give every credit to the Noble
Duke, he did not know that he could exactly subscribe to,
his statement; he rather thought the amount would be
found to be something less. The Noble Duke stated, that
the army and navy had been increased. True, they.
had been, and no man more regretted the necessity of
that augmentation than lie (Earl Grey). The army had
received an addition of 7,000 men, and a large naval
force had been maintained,— precautions called for by
the state of Europe. But lie believed the Noble Duke
had not objected to these measures ; nay, so far from ob-
jecting, he had blamed his Maje-ty's Government that
'hey had not armed to a greater extent to put themselves
in a condition for supporting the interests of the country.
—(Hear.) The naval and military establishments had un-
doubtedly been increased, owing to the circumstances of
Europe when they came into office ; the occasion that
demanded additional precautions originated in no fault of
theirs : it was their duty to place the country in the posi-
tion the exigency required ; and if he differed from the
Nob'e Duke as to the amount of force, he had advised
that which lie believed to be sufficient, and additions might
be made to it if found to be necessary to support the
honour of the Crown and the interests of the country.
The Noble Duke had stated that there was last year a
considerable surplus of revenue over expenditure ; and
had entered into calculations to show that fo. the
current year the surplus would amount to no snore
than 10,0001. Now lie (Earl Grey), after making allow-
ance for the loss sustained by the repeal of the coal
tax, and every other loss peculiar to the year, foetid that
the surplus would amount to at least 493,000/. Be it pi)-
, served, that he was speaking after three-fourtL of the
year had elapsed—of three quarters tk.t.e teas absolute
certainty; and the probable receipts and expenditure of
the concluding quarter were ascertained almost to a cer-
tainty. The Noble Earl then went into a comparison of
he respective receipts for the years 1830 and 181 i, and
referred to the large increa,e in the produce of the Cos-
. toms and Excise for the present yeaa, as a proof of the
wisdom of throwing off, at far as was possible, the fiscal
restrictions on the consumption of exciseable articles. He
would now advert to what the Noble Duke had said with
respect to the repeal of the coal tax. The Notile puke
had admitted that it was not an improve, tax to be re-
pealed—it weighed very heayi,ly upon the community,
particularly on the loam,- orders ; and, as some of their
Lordships knew, with peculiar severity upon the people
of the southern counties. The Noble Duke said, they
ought to take care that the people felt the I,ae-.,e of the
repeal, and that the amount of the da;ty diii not go into the
pockets of the producers. To that sentiment he (Earl
Grey) would snbaaribes. The Noble Duke farther re-
marked, that ;t was necessary to regulate the coal trade 41
London ; to that he also subscribed ; and a 13111 the ex-
press purpose had passed that and tl;e ether House of
Parliament, and was raaw pert 0; the law of the land.
He supposed this wo,a1:1, aatiafy the Noble Duke, and he
trusted it wotlld have a beneficial effect, and accomplish the
end at which it aimed. The Noble Duke had atwaed a
little unfairly from circumstances peculiar ,C 1 the present
year. He said that the reduction ,a,f; the duty only benc-
fitted the consumer to t!,;:a amount of 2s. a chaldron,
while the remaiti;r.g Is. went to the producers. tie
thought •ifihis an unfair view when he called to mina the cir-
cumstances which had hitherto prevented the public from
deriving the full advantage cif Tire eitaage. When the re-
peal took place, it lead pule abroad that the community
could ne3 have the full benefit of the measure in come,
iuenee of the coalition of many of the pit-ownek.a, it
was the circulation of this opinion that pro..l.acaali the strike
for higher wages among the collier 'aeay their combine
tiara the trade was stopped, fna. na believed two months,
and mo great was ;he zaatsequent distress for coals, even in
the mit.::,cg .iiatricts, that to carry coals to Newcaai.:e'
aoatef'no longer be applied to illustrate the. al..auaaiity of
bringing an article where it is naa wanted. He bad
seen letters from persoea rrlao sappliod the Newcastle
steam boats declar,liii that the vessels must lay in coals
az they ouuld not undertake to furnish theca.
Fie had "known instances of the old heaps of coal tX,L,t the
Noble Duke in visiting the north might 11-sg...s,;to iyieg
at the mouth of pits, he had knc)v4 's-,:tstannea of these
being sold at the price of oafs. Under these cir-
cumstances, it uut Le said that the good effects of
the re',.:ea; tax could yet be felt. Combination vAI
;,ow happily at au end ; and be anticipateci, aa'aer, the
trade was proceeding in its usual wax, that it would be
found that Government baA gr4:;ti.rti r, very efficient mea-
sure of relief.--](*).;;;e ;Code Lord observed, that it was
alread,:kfieAd I;alie. an.) It appeared that it had already
woved beneficial ; but at all events, it any thing arosil
prevent the public from deriving all the benefit iaea;ht
to result from.the measure, Parliament -0,11 to de-
vise further means to accomplish cae-aatii's in view. The
Noble Earl, in order to e:ac.ve. `we fallacy of those ealcula-
tim's of N".4.;e which had led hint to state the
QurpAps of the current year at 10,0001., now
p,.;ocectied to enumerate the various items of retvi.v.% 4,41
expenditure. The revenue for the year stood a; I,ni,labr
customs ,
Excise . ~, 16,t100,000
Stamp Duties . 6,850,000
Taxes ::1...............„. 5,000,000
• Pot•t. of.ce••••-• . 1,500,011,
The Noble Earl then dekaile4 totdic,vrent l;ranches of
expenditure, tivt: Total, of ibi't:-bs itt round numbers,
attionnt4 tO 44,746,901.2 leaving, after all deductions, a
su:plus o, evf.ritte over' expenditure of 493,000/. He
got a a on what principle this statement could be
much larger
Ft;n:,;j4uttinfit•o;rnesttshoef atiel:te.cloinu:tsruyrphlauds
denied, when the expenditure of three quarters staia ;aefore
Ile believed he might have Ws-- ;reihit for a
U toCe I et natsesrutarei nd ti wouldje
a pbper
es
la,
eti,:sti
nioiet been
shown to exist, the
ifiwezdi,,,thatetdt.,b.:ua
would
sion that they Were not in a condition to meet an;; emer-
gency that was likely to arise. He cot:fah:l-dry hoped and
expected that in another yezq further 'reductions would
be practicable, This hied been a year of great difficulty
and dezre.raiien. The unsettled state of Europe had pro-
duced a general want of confidence; in the month or
August the exchanges were against us, and there was a
drain of bullion from the country. The difficulty result-
ing from the pressure had been rendered as little severe as

poi,'hle, the contraction of the circulation had °petaled
as lightly as was possible. The country °trod much to
etlixehitbniatteidaggeirretaent td
diligence
Batikgtelitece of
and
ability England,
ir a body
ti,
econduct which
its
own affairs, and the affairs of the public, and now he
trusted that matters had taken another and more aus-
picious turn. The exchanges were now in our favour,
the bullion was coming back, and if they might put faith
in appearances, they might, with the continuance of
betterthere groundshadheen
all knew
peace, entertain the hope of growing prosperity, and he
a war on the continent—the dispute between
Holland and Belgium. Be was happy to be euabled to
theffowasrr some
qi nie'daeusptrgityoii Innntg(ew) inPl
istate,ites.hlte —(Hear.)
eteaaptrtit!' oe)trnhee°mT7.Ple'ierenaei peace
Lordshipsnecottmntatinn ual alarm re-
spectinginform the House, that after IS months of very difficult
}o,f, r
e London,
Great
singular cire
composed)negotiation,uer s
a onfeg conductedotchiettrneperieb,
as
representative,
an
ett
taheteri
ri
zedee Conferenceobfy
ttiih ee
cumetance that it had been conducted without any serious
difference of opinion among the members of the Conference
—this negotiation had at last, be believed, been brought to
a conclusion nu principles equitable for bath parties, and
the terms of which, he trusted, would be accepted by them
as the removal of all impediments to pacific relatiene. He
would call the principles on which the Conference had de-
tided equitable, and he would not hesitate to declare the
view he took when he saw that the reunion of Holland and
Belgium was impossible. The first thing he thought e
ne-
cessarysafety of
ft o the
Hollandinterests d
defensive
ntshi
vei s country was
aud
obtain as many advantages for the Belgians as would secure.
tthoe securesecond,th
to
to theist the character which, as au independent nation,
they ought to possess. These points had occupied the at-
tention of the congress, and the deliberations were now
brought to a conclusion. He trusted that the mode of
adjustment would be adopted by the parties at issue, and it
was the duty of the five Powers to enforce its adoption in
the way best calculated to preserve the tranquillity of Eu-
rope. Such being the state of our foreign relations,....,
looking to security abroad as the ground of making that re-
duction in certain branches of expenditure, which, however
reluctantly, they bud been obliged to increase,—there was
another circumstance to which he must refer as not tees fa-
vourable to retrenchment, and that was peace and content..
anent at home. To this he also looked with sanguine ex-
pectation. There existed, it was true, great excitement
throughout the kingdom. lie believed there was no NoWe
Lord on the opposite side who would now take upon kites
it, deny that the people of England were is earnest in their
demands for Parliamentary; Reform..(Hear, heir.) Yet
deep, and intense, and universal as was the feeling in favour
of Reform, it had not broken out into ants of turbulence
save in orte or two instances of riot. These it wan the
duty of Government and of society to restrain, for erithoot
peace and order there could be no liberty; anal it was more
especially incumbent on the friends of Reform to repress all
unseemly acts of commotion, as he believed in his con.-
, science thaf nothing could operate more adversely to the
measure of their wish. While OR this subject, he would
endeavour to obviate the eiTeete of very considerable
misrepresentations diet had gone abroad with respect to
what had fallen from him on the occasion of receiving
the delegates of certain parishes of London. What had
passed had not been correctly stated. The object of the
deputation was to show him the necessity of advising his
Majesty not to prorogue Parliament for more than seven
days. To offer any pledge of the kind he (Earl Grey) de-
clared at ones to be altogether inadmissible, and n;t to
be taken into consideration by his Majesty's Ministers,.
The question of prorogation was one which they must
determine in the way they thought best for the interests
of the country. He would not think of holding a place
in the Government meter dictation as to what mews
sures it was his duty to recommend. Unless he en-
, toyed the liberty of deciding according to the Sugges-
tinonz of hit own understanding, it would be imps-
-dile for him to retain his situation in the Councils of his
Sovereign. These were the sentiments he had expressed
to the deputation. but ha had said nothing about any spe-
cific time for whiela Parliament might be prorogued. He
had only said that the matter must be left to the dievre-
tioo of the King's Ministers, who would tender that ad-
vice which they deemed hest to be adopted.—(Hear,
hear.) He thought that he had a right to claim credit
with the count-el( for the fitness of whatever advice he
might deceit it right to offer. Whether for a longer or
.Loreee iseriod of prorogation titan suss customary, he con-
ceived that he had a claim to te! considered as snaking that
.rrangenaent most conducive to the interests of the groit
question which they lied so much at licert.—(Hear.)
With respect to this great question, he had stated that he
thought ‘lii,t alteration, in the late Rill were neceesary,
end that it was the duty of his Majesty's Governmeet
to consider these alterations ere they came to be for-
mally submitted to Pnaseuent ; but he had alien said,
that he would be tin party to any measure that was not
founded on the same principle, and that was not equally
efficieot,....-Hear, hear.) These were all the statements
he had made on the occasion Alluded to. with time exception
of an observation that had dropped from him, when it
was represented whet would be the agitation of the public
mind when ne satisfaction was given with respect to the
period of prorogation. Ile hail then told the delegates
'hat they ought to impress upon the public the necessity of
temperate conduct, and ought to use their efforts to preset re
the peace of the country, and not place the Government
in a situation in which they would lie comeelled to exer-
cise the powers entrusted to them for that purpose—powers
which,, if requisite, they were determined to exercise.
With regard to what might he the term of prorogation,
he begged to assure the House that it would be regulated
by a sincere desire to ensure the success of ato momentous
measure of parliamentary Reform. He must, however,
take Lem to say, that there must he some limits to
the exertions of human strength. Parliament had
now been since October last, almost without inter-
mission, or with intervals equally productive of labour
to public men as the Session it.elf. His Noble
Friend on the Woolsack had gone. through multifarious
ietrieuea such as no man but himself could have suer-
tamped. In the other Howse two Noble Lords had, in
addition to the hue;s.cas of office, been burdened with the
labour of constrene debating for the last three montlo. It
could not lee expected that even Illeualaers of Parliament
uneennected with the Administration should be indifferent
to relaxation, or should not wish to devote some time to
the consideration of their personal affairs. Still he ad-
mitted that every thing Inuit submit to the sentiment of
public duty, He would undoubtedly advise that which
was in aneurdance with its dictates ; and he thought he
14,1 a right to receive credit front his f flow-subjects for
any measure he should teem-amend, whether they might
or might not consider it expedient at the time, and they
would be duitme; I..e.teselves no more than justice, if they
waited reetiently for the issue ere they pronounced cen-
ewe, The Noble Earl concluded by reverting to the ori-
rginal subject of debate, repeating that the surplus revenue
for the year amounted to 493,000/, and adding that it
would not have le-it difficult for him to have shown,
that the arommt was yet larger.—( Hear.)
TL }'hike of WELLINGTON, as we understood, was
peiel ;u find that the Noble Earl was enabled to tusike so
favourable a statement of the 2nances. He expressed his
satisfaction at the resule ci the negotiations respecting Bel-
gium. One cotobiei,on be thought might he drawn from
the excitement that prevailed in this, sentry,—uatnely,
that Metitbers of that and the other Howse should not.
eueist in creating such a feeling,
The LORD CHANCELLCA rose in consequence n'i at-
tempts that had been pestivaciously made to ineitnee the
belief that there ',iii.teci a difference of opinitra 'oetween
his Noble V;itritel (Earl Grey) and himself upon the ques-
tioo.cA riteform, to repeat that be heartibe concurred in
what had fallen from his Noble Friend. He had expressed
all the Mentb
the same sentiment before ; lint the bad not induced cer-
tain persons to desist from misrepresentation. Now, he
c=ould declare, in tie... Faience of his colleagues, that of
c=i'4 ah the Cabinet there never had been the
slightest tUfit,Tenekt of opinion between his Noble Friend
ttee'i himself respecting even the most minute particulars
of the Bill--he would not say the principle, for as to
that they wete all agreed ; but he certainly would say
the minv,tks4 details of the measure. He should nose
Pass, H.) the delicate and difficult subject of the recess.
Notwiehstamling the impatience of sone° worthy inilivi-
-1 duals, whom he believed extremely well-disported towards
the Government, and most zealoe.s for the success of the
Bill, but who in recommending a prorogation for a
week, certainly did wit eVemPlay a seal according to know-
ledge, he must itYr.:,W his opinion that for theSessioa to com-
mence after en brief an interval, and for the Chanellor—
he tneeaet the Chancellor in an slier Hionso--to begin his
lohours again, and for his Nehee Frieed who had intro-
duced the Bill to renew Lia redecontley of this measure, lice
must pronounce his comairkoien that this would he Ph)"-
g,
cally impoasible. a!,:,;er haviug given three months Any
rai
eeohilintYs last Frekey, since
such
th of continitin
and night :e.l -deliberation and discussion, &nee felt
I 4:Am cerrlti otntn lieteastdid
ite i
just
twelve
lie began hard work in Laredo'', and during a?} that tine,.
he had enjoyed no wsiate or relazetiou, wish the excepmeots
of two days. at Christmas and Easter, and even they were
m hieay spent upon tbe road.—_(A taught.) During that
beent,o,2,:egeru,nionjutrolnwylitaielolbnittaa,tdvieeiel
rreae;
and
sot
ocec, c.sowautyrietheilhttfanhrto:glitioehltuso,iauxndetitOhdt
asevenoi:.tosuttiaolyidi
6:
ilel:meaeatninlioi‘iva.t.l,tl:ll::..l
to reason, lie would throw himself on the good sutras;