The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-23 00:00:00

EDINBURGH POOR LAW BILL.

On the motion of Mr. CHALMERS, this Bill was read a
second time and ordered to be committed.
LONDON AND BIRMINGHAM RAILWAY.—DE-
FALCATION OF SUB-CONTRACTORS.

Colonel SIBTHORP presented a petition from between
80 and 90 persons employed on the London and Birmingham
Railway, praying the House to make some provisions by which
the proprietors of railways would be made answerable for the
conduct of their servants. The petitioners had been employed
on the London and Birmingham Railway, and in consequence
of two of the sub-contractors having absconded they had been
mulcted of their wages. The Hon. and Gallant Member moved
that the petition should be referred to the Committee on the
London and Birmingham Railway.
Mr. HUME said that there was an Act in existence for the
very purpose which the petition had in view, which provided
in the case of masters and workmen making contracts, a speedy
mode to make them fulfil them. If the petitioners were ag-
grieved, they might have the parties before a Magistrate, in a
summary way. As to the petition being referred to the Com-
mittee, he would venture to say, that if it was, they would be
able to do nothing with it.
Mr. ROBINSON thought the ease was one for the Courts
below.

Colonel SIBTHORP said such a course might do for some
parties; but if the petitioners knew as much of law as he did,
he was sure they would never go to a Court of Law upon the
subject.—(Laughter.)
Mr.. C. BRUCE presented a petition from an individual
against the Forfar Railway Bill.
MANCHESTER AND STOCKPORT RAILWAY.
Mr. M. PHILLIPS presented a petition from certain in-
dividuals in Manchester against the Manchester and Stockport
Railway Bill.

Mr. BERNARD presented petitions from Woolwich And
Dartford against the South Eastern Railway Bill.
LONDON AND CROYDON RAILROAD.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from a company of proprie-
tors of the London and Croydon Railroad, stating that there
was a Bill in progress through that House which would inter-
fere with the track of their railway, and praying to Le heard by
counsel against such Bill.
Mr. BUCKINGHAM presented a petition from the
master, mates, and seamen of the ship Dundee, praying the sea-
men might not be prohibited from insuring their wages.
STAMP DUTIES.
The same HON. MEMBER presented a petition from Cole'Zas
we heard it) signed by 2,834 persons, praying for the total
abolition of the stamp duty on Newspapers:_

ABOLITION OF.TiTIIES.
Mr. CALLAGHAN presented a petition from the city of
Cork, praying for the total abolition of Tithes. Also a pe-
tition from the same place, praying that the general Turnpike
Trust Bill might not be renewed.
IRISH CORPORATIONS.
The same HON. MEMBER had also another petition to
present from a parish in the city cf Cork, which was signed
by 700 inhabitant householders of that city, convened by pub-
lic advertisement, and praying for corporate reform. The
petitioners stated that if a qualification of 1,0001. were re-
quired for Town Councillors, it would greatly prevent the good
effects of the Bill. He would take that opportunity of stating,
although the Honourable Member for I3andon was absent,
yet as he had given him notice that he had to make
a remark on a statement made to the House by that
Hon. and Learned Member, and as no opportunity had before
offered itself to him to make that statement, he felt himself
bound to address a few words to the House before the Bill

should have gone into Committee. The Hon. and Learned
Member (Mr. Jackson) might know a great deal about 13a31'
_
don, but he could not know the city of Cork as well as those
Members who represented it. The Hon. and Learned
Member had stated that there were not less that six bun'
dred inhabitant voters who could not write their own
names. He was authorised to state that the Hon. and Learned
Member for Bandon was greatly mistaken. The stataement
verY
was altogether erroneous, and the House would form
erroneous notion of the constituency of the City of Cork
ft on
the statement of the Member for Bandon. If the qualific
were 5/. instead of 101., there would be a very respectable and
intelligent constituency.
CHURCH RATES.
Mr. J. FIELDEN presented a petition from
against the continuance of Church Rates. The Hon. Member
proceeded to read several statements set forth in the petition; •
but in so low a tone of voice as to be altogether inaudible 1
that his
the gallery. We understood him to express a hope
Majesty's Ministers would find themselves in a condition
tin
abolish entirely a rate which had been productive of so Intic
bad feeling in every part of England. of
Mr. WIL KS had been requested to support the prayer
Rochdale
the petition. In Lancashire and Yorkshire great contentiol
was set on foot by the continuance of these obnoxious rates, an
he was not surprised at the indignation which was expressede"'
!,
the people on this subject. He would not occupy the Hous
any remarks, seeing so many of his Hon. Friends disposed t°
speak, but he could not help observing that the case beforde,
them added one to the numberless complaints which Pre
not
that until church-rates were abolished, the country could
enjoy the blessings of peace, or have confidence in those by
whom they were governed. n
Mr. POTTER said he also had been reuested to suPP-ft
the petition of the inhabitants of Rochdale for the abolition.
Church Rates. The treatment which several of the parish,-
ioners had met with was most cruel and shameful, and such "-
the House ought to inquire into. Notwithstanding the inha.
bitants of Rochdale, had in vestry assembled, refused to grant 3
Church hate, several persons had been proceeded against in ?"
most vexatious manner, all of which was detailed in the Peti-
t
tion.—( Hear.) He most earnestly entreated the Governteell,
to put an end to Church Rates, and thought as the revenue,
of the Church were about to undergo great changes and re-
ductions, Church Rates ought to be paid by that- Church t°.
whose benefit they were alone appropriated. Last Session forbe
(Mr. Potter) moved for:" a return of the number of suite „
the recovery of Church Rates in the Ecclesiastical- Coats'
il3s
he he was told the number would be very small, and for en_
under 101. the return would be nil. He held in his hand t
Return, and it actually extended over thirteen pages, and
very considerable number were for sums under 10/. He trus!e
the Session would not end without the odious impost bcing

abolihed.—( Hear.)
math*/
Mr. BUCKINGHAM knew that the facts stated in
petition were not exaggerated ; on the contrary, they were -
derrated.

Mr. ENVART supported the prayer of the petition• jha
Mr. PATTEN trusted his Majesty's Government vou rd
prepared before the close of the Session to bring for'
measure for the total abolition of Church Rates.

MR. BUCKINGHAM'S CLAIMS. could
Mr. TULK presented a petition from some place we
not learn, in favour of Mr. Buckingham's claims. The Ake
Member took that opportunity of correcting a n's4l3o
which appeared in the votes of the House.—( Hear.) most
Attorney-General presented a petition from Edinburglkarick,
numerously and respectably signed, in favour of Mr. 'fro
ingham's claims, and it was put down in the votes as,
Paisley.

AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. ster,
Mr. PELHAM presented several petitions from Leice
on the subject of agricultural distress.
Lord HE NN IKE R presented a petition on the same stl'
DISSENTERS' GRIEVANCES. 01).
Mr. WILKS presented a petition from Bewdley on the 0
jest of Dissenters' grievances. talfuoa
Mr. CHARLES LU SHING TON presented a Pe—
ly
from Ashburton on the same subject. The Hon. Member o
concurred in the prayer of the petition, and trusted they
Fo-
never be satisfied until they received the whole of the enl3l'
pation they deserved.

IRISH MUNICIPAL REFORM. Notting"
Sir R. FE RGUSSON presented a petition fro m that
the
barn House, signewould byd
be plea inhabitatongrant a fullts of that townand,
effi pracientYing ea-
-I.l'
sure of municipal reform to Ireland.

D TAXES.
Mr. II LTNIE presented aASSESSE petition from an individual na the
Charles Wright, complaining of the manner in whiebu on
window tax was assessed, and which pressed very unfairly
and
the poorer classes. He had another petition to present,
sett
he wished the Chancellor of the Exchequer was Preu b,
to call his attention to it.—( Hear, hear, and ala ijo
The Right Honourable Gentleman was in his p1ace.).......the
was glad to see the Right Hon. Gentleman in his place other
petition was from Tottenham, Enfield, Barnet, and
places in Middlesex, signed by many hundred househow'
the
are
complaining of grievous surcharges in the levying of thaare
sessed taxes ; the officers had waged an indiscriminate vat`'rt
against the inhabitants, and by summoning them for ear at
dogs, horses, licenses, &c., they had been put to very gtthe •• '
inconvenience and expense. This was not confined ,_t°d
county of Middlesex alone, and if the Government wisue le
have these taxes leviivi with the concurrence of the
prop )
they must put .a limit to these oppressive sure
The Marquis of CH AND 0 S quite concurred in the obse .
vations of the Hon. Member for Middlesex. The same sys
in the coutne
extended to other counties, and the surcharges
which he (the Marquis of Chandos) had the honour to re
sent, were most grievous and illegal, and most disgraceful et°
the parties concerned.—( Hear, hear.) arnitte3
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER a-- old
syste
the
the existence of the evil which resulted from the
the officers having an interest in the fines levied. It was the
intention of the Government to introduce a Bill to rented,'
grievance.--( Hear, hear.)

THE MAURITIUS. blaatg
Mr. HUNIE presented petitions from two in-a-ni duct
of the Island of Mauritius, complaining of the °°- the
of the Colonial Office towards that colony.
twenty years that he (Mr. Hume) had been in During
eet
parliaTo.
he never knew of so gross a case. It was not e
of tbe
pie allegation against an individual on the part
inhabitants, but that justice was not duly administerlaa
that the source of justice was tainted that improper Is e% by
sat on the bench, and that their acts were countenanoetidea
the Government. The case of the inhabitants had been CO,I for
to his Hon. Friend the Member for Bath, who had roovei the
the appointment of a Committee on the subject. One °„and
most important and material witnesses was Mr. Jer6tele'ating
the petitioners had applied to the Colonial Office, rer,tbo
that this public officer would be detained ar.")
purpose of having justice done.--( Cries of " Hear, to Pay
Rather than lose his evidence, they were obliged tc,face.
1,0001. into the hands of an individual in the Colonial ,-;33";ott,
When the day of motion came, his Majesty's Gover:ei, re-
through their Under Secretary, objected to the enclturfi;ilitY
jetted their prayer, and thus prevented the posstea.
of the inhabitants of the Mauritius having their case Sk-ogb
As the last resource, there being no other tribunal alloy
which they could obtain a return of the money' e
came to that House and requested its interfereo° 00
whatever it might think best to forward that object. t
thought the only justice that could be done was, tbaoool
i
Majesty's Government should order the return Of the "
which they ought not to have received. It was not for arver
ral Government to turn round upon parties in a paltry atto
sibio
P
like manner, and take advantage of them in every s
Iva
y.—
G.
Hear, hear.) ber far
Sir . GREY had first to thank the lion. Mee3of the
Middlesex for having furnished him with COPY: - the
petition, but he was certainly bound to sayhe
statements in the petition were quite at variance with whatroeci
knew to be the facts of the case. The Petitioners rettilog
from the Mauritius in the same ship with Mr. JerernYfnloy's
ago as last February. He must have known that Mr. °'rotion
appointment to the Judgeship was made at the s°"el The
of Mr. Jeremy's friends as long ago as October lastesgios,
Hon. Member had given notice of a motion last to thef
that he should move for a Committee to enquire bae..
matter, and upon the Bth of January last Lord Glenfab the
intimated that he would interpose no difficulty Member
way of Mr. Jeremy's detention, or to prevent any Hon. to tb°
from bringing forward any proposition with reference woe
Mauritius, and in respect to which Mr. Jeremy's e: oe;
might in their opinion be desirable. At the sae) nand
though the particulars of the case were not state 'iota_
no decided opinion expressed as to the course it was thefortoea
tion of Government to pursue, they were now inof the
that they would not pledge themselves to the result
1.000
enquiry, and Lord Glenelg had stated that he would not
sent.
the order of detention except with Mr. Jeremy's own c 00
The petitioners then, to induce Mr. Jeremy to straYjeterni
country, offered him the amount in question. M not re-
said that being a servant of the country, he coul
ceive the money ; but it it was paid through the "'clearit
Office he would receive it.—( Hear, hear.) It was, out og
understood that Mr. Jeremy was to be indemnifie" artti•
thq oyer
the money, and the remainder was to be returned to
of
Upon the Petitioners' own order the money was Pal la
to Mr. Jeremy. Under these circumstances, he
belongedcotl
think any blame attached to the department to which be
.stoo.
in not attempting to charge the public with thaoro, to
The petitioners stated that they had been driven to coffice.
Parliament, by the conduct of the Colonial
letter°
Now, what was the fact ? Why numerous .60°1.5'
had been received at the Colonial Office from the Pei the
impeaching the conduct of almost every public officer
...001
Mauritius, and was it likely that the Colonial Office "
act upon them ?—( Cheers.) wee
The SPEAKER put it to Hon. Members whether, tbef
so many subjects of importance were before the Hous_i.otre
would not adjourn the discussion of this subject till a
period ? tca t"
Mr. WILK S said, that if the Chair sugge' 001
propriety of postponing the discussion, of course scat
'vents
state
submit. But he thought it was impossible that without
such as had been made.could be allowed to pass bi,ho Coo'
observation. He thought the petition well deservint,
sideration of the House.
Mr. ROEBUCK did not understand w the diseurs,shi%r.)
this subject could not be finished at once.—(Hear, beefiaronet'
A statement had been made by the Hon. _ore an'
which might prejudice the petitioners unless tkey_a"d tbeseg.
swered.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Baronet hads_s_o
parties had come to this country in the
ea" ~0,
He had nothing to do with that ; the questiobe Zaurititr
not these parties accuse many of the officers of t
of malversation ?—( Hear.) Why even Mr. Jeremy nu"
red
°to bill
The petitioners, together with Mr. Jeremy, aPP
f.
to make a statement to the House last- Session. e
oar° or
he could not do so then, but would in tb
been ...-
the present Sessions. Now what had the tours

bri.rovernment? Why they had made Mr. Jeremy a
e, knowing full well that it was his intention to
ri,g the whole matter of the Mauritius before the House,
Mrl that he could not do so, if deprived of the evidence of
r. Jeremy
totally,
•—( Hear, hear. ) Now the Hon. Baronet had
forgotten that M to mention a most important fact, which vas,
willr. Jeremy was about to be sent out against his own
And till the inquiry had taken place. —( Hear, hear.)
41 upon his (Mr. R. ) applying to the Colonial Office, seve-
,, grounds were stated—all of which he rebutted—why Mr.
erely could not be detained in this country, and at last they
uPon him for the poor unfortunate one thousand
for the indemnification of Mr.
.Jeremy.—( Hear. )
tha`Yr,oact created expense, and called upon him to pay ; but
/,-,entlemen were so rmined to bring the matter before
tharnament, if there wawa chance of the case being heard,
Nvltl they were willing, under protest, to pay the 1,0001.
that at was the answer of the Government ? Not
not they reserved the right of opposition, but that they could
nothing
what the House of Commons would determine. Now
taing was better understood than this, that when Ministers de-
termined to grant a Committee the usual understanding was that
Committee
would be granted. If the Government denied a
Therefore, then only was the House called upon to divide.
the Colonial Office must have known whether they
ol!endetl to grant this Committee or not. They had deter-
mined, as it turned out, to refuse the Committee, but neverthe-
less they took the money. He never was more surprised
when the Honourable Baronet accepted the
t there was one other time, viz., when the Ho-
11°Orable Baronet stated that he was authorised to deny
the Committee, after accepting the money, his (Mr. R.'s)
astcmishment was somewhat greater. The affair was alto-
!ielther a complication of the grossest injustice. The only
lance of wiping out the stains that rested upon the Co-
"la' Office—of doing something in some way to wash out,
r at least to lessen the colour of those stains—was to pay
back the money. —(A laugh.) Such was the state of the
ellso---these were the real facts of it, and he left it to the
'louse and the country to decide between them.
The petition was then laid on the table.

MARINE INSURANCES.
Mr. H. HUGHES begged to ask the Right Hon. the
Chancellor of the ExcheqUer if it was the intention of Go-
Yerelnent to propose in his financial statement any reduction
of the duties payable on Marine Insurances.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
lgs not his intention to propose any change in the duties on
Marine Insurances.
, Sir GEORGE GREY brought up papers from the Co-
lonial Office, pursuant to order.
SLAVE APPRENTICESHIP--WEST INDIES.
Mr. FOWEL BUXTON confessed he had heard with
Much satisfaction that it was the intention of Government to
bring in a Bill for the purpose of continuing the Act on this
subject, which had been allowed to expire in Jamaica. It was
Only within a few days that he heard of this, and not having
ex▪
pected it, he felt on that account more grateful to Ministers.
La moving for a Committee, it would not be necessary for him
',occupy the House at any great length ; for the importance
c°•Athe subject must be apparent to every one, affecting as it
7" 5,000,000 of human beings wbo bad been in a state of
aievery in other countries.—(Hear, hear.) The people of
Iti,agland feel a dee and lively interest in the question.
Cr.! best proof he could adduce support of this fact was,
when Petitions were pouring in from every quarter
of at
e country, praying for the emancipation of the
toes, they were answered by West India interests—
ewyelslii:lll your constituents their prayer shall be granted, but
p y for it. Well, their prayer been
"nplied with ,a and had' they heard the slightest cormplaint
frern the people of England? But the people who contributed
to purchase the freedom of the slave, had a right
(know how that money had been disposed of.—(Hear.)
hereere was another reason, which weighed more with him
u,
4 - any other.—( Hear, hear.) They had had consi-
:rable experience upon the subject, and he thought it
a 4 desirable that every Hon. Member, whose constituents
'ere interested in the matter, should know whether the West
Pled:ialls had made any attempt to evade the conditions for
ed that money had been granted—whether they had attempt-
th '0 deprive the negroes of any portion of that liberty which
British people had bought at so costly a price. He (Mr. F.
l4tten) contended that such was the case, and it was only
wi,.
test u'n the last half hour only that he had ascertained
A_ the Government had had the courage to
say, if that
expired in
Jamaica, they would re-establish it in a British
5100se of Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) He. would proceed to
:17) that at the moment of their receiving that enormous
Th"....aat--when they had scarce recovered from their astonish
millions
at their extraordinary good luck in receiving twenty
bthe,snione of money—( Hear, hear)—an enormous gain to
"` ; when, at the very outset, at a time they ought 'to
oe thou ht of nothing but expressing their gratitude for
that g
large sum, they should have attempted to lay violent
Ads
Ad upon the essential and sacred principles, of the Abolition
It was necessary to know what were the promises
madeNel, to the British people by the West Indians, and by the
gh,"lo Lord who introduced the. Bill. They were, that
ft:lag the interval, the apprentices should be. exempted
th al the system of irresponsible corporeal punishment, and
at not a taint of slavery should remain—that with the ex-
kiltk_i°ll of being obliged to work a certain number of hours
tte ue week, they should have all the rights and privileges of
Lee Tee• Whoever looked at the words of the Noble
l
1.• ;NJ or the terms of the Act, would be satisfied that to al
Zeta and purposes they should be decidedly free. That im-
ie-ed an obligation on both parties. On the British Govern-
eh °t to pay the twenty millions—and that obligation
f
the„Y had faithfully discharged : next was the obligation
ofo
La- negroes to work industriously for a certain number
eirs, and he (Mr. Buxton) would show that they had not.ed
Y alPerformed it, but by their industry they had surprised
got
vtarmeee the cold calculations of the West Indians, but the
te,olst expectations of their warmest friends. There were
De Acts passed by the Jamaica House of Assembly, one in
*4G-ember, 1833, and the other in July, 1834. It was
es With the first of these Acts he had to deal,
.e.,"e other had been virtually repealed.—( Hear.) In that
11;11there was not less than 28 striking discrepancies between
1,0- British Act and that of the Jamaica House of Assembly.
Aett- of words were that, " it was an imperfect
jt °' abolition."—(Hear, hear.) Lord Glenelg spoke of
Le the same manner in one of his despatches.
the Friend the Member for Devonport thought as badly of
laerlginal Act as he did, otherwise what meant the notice they
and heard—that the Government would take the proper
I,_ndable steps of coming forward and doing that which
Ile" west Indians had refused to do themselves. When
Iket(Mr• P. Buxton) last year complained of the original
ueip,adiat did his Hon. Friend state ? True it was that the
a11;',414,,1 Act was liable to all those complaints that bad been
te• °e' against it, but that there was a second Act which was
I„
bad -SterPiece of legislation. The Earl of Aberdeen, also,
Act said that he had no confidence in the original Act (the
-:)f December, 1833), although the Act of 1834 might
ttented„ ' 00 doubt was, calculated to carry into effect the in•
• of the British Legislature. Whatever merits, how-
%ow might have been in the Act of July, 1834, they were
Oty•Unavailable, for that Act had since become inoperative
tell3leig bad a clause stopping its operation on the 31st of De-
elt 1835), and they (the abolitionists) were now thrown
fact 901.1 the original Act of December, 1833. In point of
Itqttee,tras clear to him (Mr. Buxton) that the West Indians
elennined, from the first, to prevent the operation of
%red inglisb Abolition Act, so soon as they should have se-
!ration '4l themselves the money promised to them as compen-
ln th-Illeney which he (Mr. Buxton) had never regarded
oe se: light of compensation for a just demand. It would
kite Tent if he stated a few instances to show that the grand
''gets the Abolition Act--the establishment of equality of
that e for both black and white men—had been evaded, and
In th°l"),cralpunishment was far from having been abolished
14.1secik•olontes even to the extent expected when the Bill was
4tlthou e Ye had received information from all quarters that
Yet that In some estates justice was impartially administered,
these at en by far the greater portion, particularly on
vets, administered by attorneys and overseers, the very re-
tie Was th
a floen. e case.—( Hear, hear.) In the first place, that
tiiPeraeeioeaignoofiesfsemales had not been put an end to—
t]agn t to humanity than contrary to
ordws--coe had the evidence of a communication made by
ttc'of ti,-"g°, in which the fact was positively asserted. In
or th .at there was not the same law for the black man as
staneeas white he would state that while, under certain circum-
Prisonth' the negro could be punished with six months' im-
lf,reini -,e,eri!, fifty lashes and one year's extension of the ap-
Lue ~%-eit,_the utmost punishment to the white man under
'"Ptieo circumstances was the penalty of 51. and five. days
Whizittent. There were many other grounds of grievance
I,ll4tebth,
ewe,,,re he to enumerate them, would convince. the House
vent th west Indians were doing all in their power to pre-
AOral e operation of the Act. With respect to cor-
kaln Punishment, the abolition of which had been one of the
Iva, Meets of the framers of the Bill, he
el hi et, (Mr. Buxton)
tb....ue possession of certain returns which showed
to
fo'rrp'eernishments still bore a great onorportion to w,hat.
V were. It appeared that a single yew
467 tuber
irf °I. punishments had been—in Cortona,
eke_Montserrat, 1,034 ; in Grenada, 2,414 ; in St..
1,154."1, : in Barbadoes, 7,800 ; and in Demerara,
14 ,It is true that the whole of these were not corporal,
ei) tcliernerara (as to which he was in possession of hiforma-
:ee 2,leoumber of corporal punishments in a single year had
say hat inquiry
With these facts before them were they prepared
ATPted t inquiry wa uncalled for ? The West Indians at-
,lo (11.48
0(:) justify their proceedings. He had a copy of the
plaints Legislative Assembly of Jamaica to the Gover-
41nts fo:eit they did this. But the best answer to any corn,
t.Lern was a comparison of the present state of the
:191, `ti',e'v.ith that hi which they were previously to the passing
;;,q_q there' The planters were then in a state of great ruin,
„41 was even danger of a servile insurrection. What
iTrltiel,o_ condition now ? It had been predicted that a con-
. eible tn arise from such a measure would be, to double or
con-
ss prio
l'ildethe eef Sugar ; and it bad, at the same time, been
tie enlly for r the country would be willing to pay 6,000,0001.
s 1,84 r so costly an experiment of humanity. Some par-
!: reve.!leclared that it would occasion a loss of 3,000,0001. to
Uld knte, while others were of the opinion that the markets
111PtiT 'eft without proper supplies of sugar. for home con-
" ; but
1,44 faeoies for his part, he had participated in no such
comb °the,' ,S 0 far from anticipating any of the evils
v'etio 'ad apprehended, he bad always entertained the
f 11--ea e • .
4, oiled conviction which the result proved to have been
leiZd b„ e-that at all events as much sugar would be pro-
he r, ',free labour as ever had been produced by slave
teeeti
dzshould now compare the quantity of sugar mami-
titethe Slaving the year before and the year after the passing
tvii,was 3 Slaving Abolition Bill. In 1833 he found the quan-
L_, the 2 45,000 cwts., and in 1835, 3,524,000 cwts. ; so
1-711;tily woreduction in the latter year was so trivial as to be
It 0, it hadttlt mentioning. He now came to the planters,
ere be
aboli e 11 gravely asserted, would be ruined if slavery
seed ~
"fly) the state of the affairs in the Colonies

never had been more flourishing than since the passing of the
measure, by which that object had so happily been effected.
So far from having reduced the planters to misery and ruin,
that measure had, in fact, restored them to a condition the most
prosperous. He should now pass on to that part of the sub-
ject which related to free labour, and he must say that the
House could not feel otherwise than satisfied with the result of
the measure on this head. The industry of the negroes since
their emancipation was as remarkable as it was praiseworthy;
and he was proud to be enabled to say that they worked far
better as freemen, and without the whip, than ever they did
while in a state of slavery. This the papers on the table
would abundantly show if he were to read them.—
(Cries of " No, no, no,' and " Don't read, don't read.")
What was the statement of the Marquis of Sligo on this part
of the case ? Why, not only that the negroes were willing to
work for wages, but that by such work double the quantity of
sugar per hour was obtained. Crime, he was also happy to
say, had in every part of the colony abated. He should only
notice one or two other points. It ought to be generally known
that double the quantity of sugar per hour could be produced
by free labour than ever had ,been obtained by slave labour.
The same might be said of coffee and cotton ; but with respect
to molasses a reduction had taken place from an average of
5,300 to 5,171 hogsheads. They had then the authority of
Lord Sligo for saying that the apprehensions about the want
of sugar were unfounded, and that the negroes worked cheer-
fully for wages, both by day and by night. After speaking of
the good conduct of the negroes, Lord Sligo said that on the
whole he had come to the conclusion that the success of the
new system depended not so much upon them as upon the
white population, and that if it failed the latter alone would
be to blame. His Hon. Friend the Member for Lymington,
one of the greatest landed proprietors in Antigua, had told
him that during the last nine years he had lost by his West
India property 7,0001. His Hon. Friend had, however, been
fully remunerated by the compensation which he had received,
and, what was more, he had let his land for three years at
1,2001. a year, and after that for 1,5001. a year ; but since he
had entered into this last arrangement as much as 2,0001. a
year had been offered to him.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Gentleman concluded by moving for a Select Committee to
inquire into the working of the apprentice system in the colo-
nies, the condition of the apprentices, and the laws and regu-
lations affecting them which have been passed.
Lord STANLEY wished to lay before the House a brief
explanation of what his conduct had been while a member of
Lord Grey's Government in reference to the Bill which had
been passed for abolishing- slavery in the colonies. While he
had charge of the Colonial Department; under Lord Grey's
Administration, this step was taken, and he, in common with
every Member of that Government, considered it as the most
promising course that could under the circumstances be pur-
sued. The result had answered his most sanguine expectations,
and he had no hesitation in saying that it was to that measure—
by giving freedom to the slaves—that. the present prosperity of
the West India colonies was to be attributed. Whatever
reluctance he might have to address a thin House was
more than compensated by the reflection that the measure
which he had introduced had so far fulfilled his expectations
as to have got rid of the extraordinary alarm, the nervous
anxiety, and the strong excitement with which it was at first
regarded by all classes. It had been charged against this
measure that it would work the ruin of the merchant, trader,
banker, and the shipping interest; but, instead of injuring any
one of these parties, it had only tended to promote their ad-
vantage. The experiment, he admitted, was among the most
important that had ever been tried in the history of nations,
but still it was the feeling of Lord Grey's Government that
it was their duty to make it, although they knew they ran
the risk of rekindling by it a half-extinguished volcano.—
( Hear.) The position of Lord Grey's Government in 1833
was, undoubtedly, one of great difficulty. They felt that
they were bound to pass such a measure, and they also knew
that it was their duty to take every precaution possible to in-
sure its success. At the moment the Act was sent out great
difficulty and doubt existed as to whether the Legislature of
Jamaica would meet the Parliament of Great Britain in a
spirit of conciliation ; and as all the other colonies were look-
ing up to Jamaica, the crisis was undoubtedly one of very
great importance; but, fortunately, the Legislature of Ja-
maica met the views of the Parliament of this country ; and
instead of the failure which had been anticipated by all the
measure it had produced a great moral effect throughout the
colonies.—[The Noble Lord then read a passage from a des-
patch which had been received from Lord Mulgrave, de-
scribing the course which the Legislature: of Jamaica had
taken, and stating that in the measures which they had adopted
they had strictly adhered to the principles of the Act which
had been proposed by the Parliament of this country.] With
all these circumstances before them—knowing- that every
colony was looking with intense anxiety to see how this ques-
tion would be settled—in what position, he asked, would they
have placed all those great interests, if, having complied with
the proceedings of the Jamaica Legislature, they had never-
theless declared that compensation would not be given ? An
explosion would have taken place throughout the whole range
of West Indian society. They would have been assailed with
complaints from every part of those colonies of breaches of
faith with them, and they would have forfeited their characters
as Ministers of the Crown, and have endangered the success
of the great experiment they had then commenced. What was
the course then pursued by him (Lord Stanley)? He felt it
his duty, riot for the purpose of releasing himself from respon-
sibility, but in order that the question might be fully and deli-
berately considered, to bring the whole case under the notice
of his colleagues. The subject was fully submitted to the
members of Lord Grey's Government. The Colonial Act was
referred to the then Under Secretary for the Colonies, who, with
his usual acuteness and discernment, pointed out the variances
that existed between it and the Act of the British Legislature.
Those variances were pointed out to a gentleman officially
connected with the Colonies, whom he should have no hesita-
tion to name—Mr. Stephens ; and his arguments and obser-
vations upon them were finally brought by him (Lord Stanley)
before a full Cabinet Council, at which all the members of
Lord Grey's Administration were present. He submitted these
points one by one to the opinion of his colleagues, and asked
them whether any of them individually was sufficient to justify
them in refusing compensation. Their opinion was unanimous
that they were not. He then asked them if, taken altogether,
they were sufficient to warrant them in refusing to declare that
adequate provision should be made. Now if any difference of
opinion had existed amongst those present on that occasion,
there might, perhaps, be some ground for imputing blame, but
one by one he had received the declaration of all his colleagues
that these variances did not form sufficient ground of objec-
tion, and that the Government would be unjustified in with-
holding the declaration that adequate and satisfactory pro-
vision should be made.—( Hear, hear.) After he (Lord
Stanley) had ceased to hold office, he understood that a
communication had been made by the Marquis of Sligo to
his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, then
Secretary for the Colonies, stating that the House of Assem-
bly had passed a supplementary Act, which he admitted was
only temporary, but which Act fully met all these cases of
objection which he (Lord Stanley) had pointed out, except
one ; and, with respect to the point excepted, the Marquis of
Sligo expressed his hope that the Government would not press
it, for that if he himself was an independent Member of the
Legislature of Jamaica he would not consent to concede that
point. An unfavourable view had been suggested of the case
then presented by Lord Grey's Administration ; but the con-
sequences of having made that declaration they would never
have cause to regret. They had seen that great experiment
already crowned with signal and increasing success—produ-
cing an immense and progressive improvement in the condition
of every class—beneficial alike to the slave and to the master
—and which, whilst it ameliorated and elevated the condition
of the negro, would be found permanently conducive to the
best interests of the planter.—( Hear.)
Sir G. GREY stated that it was not the intention of the
Government to oppose the motion of the Hon. Member for
Weymouth. The British Parliament and the British people
had a perfect right to the fullest information of the working
of a system for the creation of which they had so liberally
paid. He certainly thought that there could be no objection
that the country should have an opportunity of judging what
fruits this system had produced. What was the present con-
dition of the negro in comparison with what it had been, and
what was the degree of supervision exercised by those whom
the Government had sent out for that purpose ? On the occa-
sion of the motion of last year, two days before it was brought
on, in order to quiet any possible alarm that might be
created, the Government had addressed a circular letter to
the Governors of the different colonies, stating their de-
termination to resist any interference with the payment of
the money, but at the same time stating their opinion
that, pith regard the working of the system, the Par-
liament, and, the people of England were entitled to the
fullest information. No apprehension could be felt by those
who represent the West India interest from the appointment
of a committee of inquiry. It appeared by papers on the table
that three committees had already been appointed for the same
purpose by the House of Assembly in Jamaica. One of these
committees, appointed in 1834, to inquire into the working of
the new system, was appointed nearly in the terms of the mo-
tion of the Hon. Member for Weymouth. The committee had
certainly made a report different from what he expected would
be the report of the present committee after they had exa-
mined witnesses and availed themselves of the information
which would be afforded them. But he did not see how the
West India proprietors could suppose that their interests would
in any degree be prejudiced by a committee of inquiry. The
West India body resident in the colonies had raised a cry that
their property had been subjected to deterioration by the
change which had taken place. In justice to the West India
body resident in this country he felt bound to say that they
differed much in the spirit that actuated them on this question
from those resident in the colonies. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman proceeded to refer to some of the arguments used
by the Hon. Member for Weymouth. He said that it was
impossible that so great a change as had been effected could at
first fully meet all the expectations that had been formed of
it. With respect to the cases that had been mentioned
by the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. F. Buxton), there was a
law in force fully to meet those cases. It was the desire
of the Government that that law should be fully enforced,
and it was perfectly in the power of the Executive to enforce
it. Notwithstanding what had been stated by the opponents
of the measure of West India emancipation, its good effects
upon the state of those colonies was already evident. It was
the duty of the Government, in watching over the operations
of this great change, to maintain the principles of the Bill of
1823, and to maintain the reciprocal rights of all parties.
They were as much bound to see that the proprietor obtained
that portion of labour which he was entitled to receive with-
out wages, as they were to see that the negro bad the full en-
joyment of the period of free labour allotted to him. He con-
tended that the state of the negro, compared with what it had
beeniL,hsmvaesntismmeasurably improved. With respect to corporal
pu
, lie hoped before the Committee to be able to
show that they had greatly diminished—that in some colonies
the lash was entirely disused, and that in all the use of it was
greatly on the decline. It had been taken out of hands that