The Sun.
London, England, 1831-12-16 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

We have received a great number of letters on the new Re-
form Bill, and from this circumstance, as well as from the im-
portance of the measure itself, have been induced again to look
into its chief provisions. The eighteenth clause, respecting
the right of freeholders to vote for counties, parti6ularly at.
rested our attention. By this clause some persons have tholight
that the forty-shilling freeholders will not survive the present
generation, and that freehold qualifications will, after the de-
mise of their present possessors, be raised to ten pounds. Such
an alteration would have been of sufficient importance to have
i deserved notice in the speech of Lord J. Russell, and certainly
would have called forth some remarks from us in our yester-
day's summary of the points in which the present Bill differs
from the last. The apprehension, however, proceedi on a mis-
take. No freeholds for a life or lives will indeed be alloWed a
vote after the passing of the present Bill, unless they amount
to the annual value over rents and charges of ten pounds ; but
forty-shilling freeholds of inheritance, or possessed in fee
simple, are not affected by the proposed change. In so far as
this change goes, it will be a manifest improvement, as it,will
prevent the creation or multiplicatian of those fictitious forty-
shilling votes which were made by rich Aristocrats in contem-
plation of a contested election. The subdivision of counties.
to which we expressed so strong a repugnance in the first Bill,
is still continued, but may be altered in the Committee. 'We
are not aware that we have omitted to notice any of the pro-
visions which distinguish the present Bill from the last. Many
opportunities will occur for discussing or defending contested
clauses.—Times.

Earl Grey made last night an important declaration with re-
spect to Mr. O'Connell. The Earl of Wicklow had charged
Ministers with having endeavoured to conciliate a certain indi-
vidual (Mr. O'Connell) in Ireland, who was most active in his
hostility to them, by the offer of a situation of considerable im-

portance. Earl Grey said—
" Knowing the extent of that individual's ability and influence,
he (Lord Grey) should have been glad, if he could have been de-
tached from the courses in which he had been engaged, and hare
been attached to the support of his Majesty's Government. If he
had pursued a proper course, if he had shown himself a well-
disposed and peaceable subject, his abilities and his professional
reputation would undoubtedly have entitled him to entertain
considerable expectations. But if any offer had been made to
the individual in question of any such situation, and in any such
manner, as might enable him to say that he had such situation
in his power, and had rejected it, he (Earl Grey) was ignorant of
it. No such offer had been made by him ; none such could have
been sanctioned by him ; nor could he believe that any other
person had taken any step even approaching to such an offer.
He (Earl Grey) certainly lamented the situation in which that
individual had placed himself, and which cut off all hope of his
attaching himself to the support of Government—an event which
would have been productive of great benefit to the Government,
to the country,and, aboveall, to the individual himself.—(Hear.)"
That the appointment of Mr. O'Connell to a situation suit-
able to his talents and experience would have been productive
of great benefit to the Government and to the country (leaving
Mr. O'Connell himself out of consideration), is a position
which few who know Ireland, and the influence he possesses,
and justly possesses, with the great body of the population, will
be disposed to deny. But, notwithstanding this admission of
Earl Grey, he states distinctly that no offer of any such situa-
tion was made to Mr. O'Connell. What gave Mr. O'Conell
the influence which would have made his appointment pro-
ductive of great benefit to the Government and the country ?
The conduct he has hitherto pursued in Ireland, which has
obtained for him a credit with the great mass of the people,
that lie is the beat friend they ever yet had. . But to entitle
Mr. O'Connell to an appointment, it seems, he ought, be-
sides giving to Government more efficient support than they
received from any other Member last Session, to have conti.
sued for some time to wear the appearance of quite a new
man, to seem as if doing penance for the agitation which
obtained for him the unbounded influence he possesses.—
The English of this is, that he ought to have thrown
away the influence he possesses in Ireland, without even
having the least assurance that his repentance would lead
to anything beyond the delight which the - opponents of
the Government would take in seeing so powerful an individual
reduced to such a state of humiliation. It seems to us that, in
all this there is more fastidiousness than sound worldly wisdom.
Mr. O'Connell would either have been able to do the country
service, or he would not. The question is, not what would
have benefitted Mr. O'Connell himself, but what Would have
benefitted the country. But Ministers have admitted that his
support would have been productive of great benefit to Go-
vernment and the country. Why then this—
'. Letting I dare not wait upon I would,
Like the poor oat i' the adage?"
If Ministers had attempted to gain over ,Mr. O'Connell,
without succeeding, they would have had a good defence,
should any portion of their future difficulties be attributed to
that circumstance; but from this defence they have cut
themselves off by a declaration that they cautiously kept them-
selves aloof from him. Earl Grey observed, " that with respect
to the present state of Ireland, no man could more deeply—
no man could more sincerely lament that state than he did.
To him it certainly had been a most severe and bitter disap-
pointment, that the great and healing measure adopted by
Parliament two years ago, and which had received his most
cordial support, had not the beneficial effects which he anti-
cipated from it. In what way these beneficial effects had been
prevented, he would not then stop to consider." We have no
doubt that his Lordship most sincerely desires the prosperity of
Ireland—that he has no thought which is not stamped by
purity of intention. But we are somewhat astonished that he
should have anticipated from the concession of the Catholic
claims the results of which he spoke. The concession of
these claims at y to thc the
great work of grappling in earnest with the evils brought on
by centuries not merely of misgovernment, 'but of brutal
tyranny. The great and avowed object of all the Govern-
ments, and indeed of all thepoliticians of England down almost
to our own times, was to cripple the industry of Ireland, and to
degrade the people. Laws were passed to destroy one manu-
facture after another, and to interdict one branch of trade after
another; and no English writer durst venture to say a word in
favour of Ireland without apologizing as for a crime. One Eng-
lish author even recommended an union, on the ground that it
would give the English greater facilities_to cripple their trade.
" Their numbers (he says) would not be dangerous, if but thirty.
two Members for thirty-two counties. The objection is, that
if Ireland was united, they would have equal liberty of trade
with England. To which is answered, that does not follow,
they may be better restrained by the union than they can be
under the Constitution they are now." The chief argument of
Fletcher, of Saltoun, against an Union between Scotland and
England, was the danger of being connected with a nation
which could treat the people of Ireland in so barbarous a man-
ner. These doings have left deep traces behind them. The
whole frame of society in Ireland is disjointed. But to no one
of the evils in the social condition of Ireland has a remedy
hitherto been applied. The poor are still exposed to all the
evils of ur.limited competition for land as a means of subsist.
ence. There is no responsibility whatever on those who pos-
sess property to attend to those who have none. We do not
blame the present Ministers for this ; because the present
Ministers have hardly yet had time to turn themselves, and
have besides been overwhelmed by the great measure which is
to secure to the whole empire the blessings of rational govern.
ment. But it is necessary to bear in aiind that the heating
measures are yet to come—that the poor are yet in a state
which necessarily renders them agitated—and that if property
alone secures obedience to the law, a nation of paupers must-be
a disaffected nation. "It was imposssible (said his Lordship)
to contemplate a country so fertile, so productive, so admirably
placed, so abounding with harbours and other conveniencies
for commerce, and inhabited by so brave, so intelligent, and
so enterprising a people, without the conviction that all that
was necessary to the prosperity of such a country was the
establishment of quiet and order." A country enjoying
quiet and order is prosperous, just as a man having a good
digestion must be in good health. But when a country does
not enjoy quiet and order, some measures are necessary to pro-
duce it, just as strong medicines and regimen are necessary to
restore digestion. Ireland requires strong measures. The
Government has hitherto been against the country. Laws
have been executed by a military force, which would not have
been submitted to without force. No country could exist a
single year in the state in which Ireland is, without a foreign
force to coerce it. It exhibits all the features of those parts of
India in which the tyranny of the native powers is upheld for
a time by British bayonets, till the India Company; in mercy to '
the people, take them under their protection. The agitation
must continue till the obstacles in the way of the acquisition of
property by the mass of the people are removed. The culti-
vators of the soil under the present laws cannot possibly acquire
property. We hail with great satisfaction the benevolent de-
claration of Earl Grey, that " it had always been one of the
articles of his political creed, that the best mode of dealing with
sedition was, in the first instance, to take away its causes, and
if any real grievances existed, to show a sincere disposition to
remove them."—(Hear, hear, hear.) This is an excellent creed,
and we trust the fruits of it will be soon seen. But the task of
grappling with the real grievances of the Irish is one of far
more difficulty than any his Lordship has had to encounter.
The enemies of Ireland are powerful, and, unfortunately for
the people, no Minister of this country will for some time be
sufficiently powerful to prefer the friendship of the people 't.o
the leaitilities of these enemies.—Morning Chronicle.

The question of tithes in Ireland was last night brought for-
ward in both Houses of Parliament. It was brought forward,
not as a specific measure, but as a motion for the appointment
of a Committee to inquire into the subject, with a view to the
adoption of some specific measure, as facts and circumstances
might suggest. The motion was, in effect, a motion for in-
quiry, and the simple question would seem to be, whether the
subject demanded inquiry or not ? But it is seldom that mere
party feeling can look straightforward at any thing, and ac-
cordingly we find that Lord Ellenborough and others pro-
ceeded to debate, not whether inquiry was necessary, but whe-
ther Ministers were not anxious to get out of a scrape by
shifting the responsibility from their own shoulders upon a
Committee of both Houses., We care not for Mini-
sters, nor for the opponents of Ministers, but we do
care for common candour and common sense, anti,
therefore, we complain of an attempt to narrow 'a
great and momentous question into a little party squabble,
which could only be interesting to certain persons,
who would gladly undertake any responsibility that would
lift them into place. It is answer enough to the ar-
gument thus brought forward to say that Ministers will still be
responsible for whatever may be done under their sanction,
though Lord Ellenborough, and other disinterested politicians
of the same school, may see no security for the adoption of wise
measures but allowing them to step into the Ministiers' shoes.
Lord Lansdowne, however, disposed of his Lordship's reasoning
with very little ceremony, by referring to his former conduct,
and leaving him to answer himself. The task was not difficult,
as the result proved; for his Lordship is an instance of the
change that may be produced in a man's opinions by the mere

circu►ostance of standing at different sides of the tune House. '
But the most important feature in the debates of last night was
the speech of Mr. Stanley, the Secretary for Ireland. If any one,
after reading that able speech, and the appalling facts which it
discloses, can hesitate to say that something must be done—and
speedily and effectually done—to save the Church Establishment
in Ireland from ruin, he must have hopes of safety inde.
pendently of all human means and human demonstrations. The
fact of combined, consolidated, systematic resistance to the pay-
ment of tithe is undenied—the certainty that such resistance
will become more consolidated and systematic if something be
not done to prevent it, is indisputable. The law which en-
forces the payment of tithe has become a dead letter in Ireland.
The Protestant clergy are in many parts reduced to the greatest
want, and every thing looks like a breaking up of the system,
if something be not substituted for that obnoxious mode of sup-
porting the clergy, which has always been a source of discon-
tent amongst the Catholic population of that country. It is not
by the adoption of new Brunswick or Orange Societies, with
which the Irish Papers have been ringing for the last few
days, nor by strong resolutions against this or the other Go-
vernment that the Irish Nobility and gentry can benefit their
country at such a crisis. The introduction of Political Unions
was an unfortunate measure, which we lamented in the
first instance, and, amongst other reasons, for their tendency
to produce similar Unions. These fears are now verified;
the two parties are once more arrayed against each other
in Unions—in hostile bands ; and those who give encourage.
merit to such proceedings on either side, are leading themselves
we must hope unknowingly, to the destruction of every prin-
ciple of order. It is easy for Lords and Gentlemen to talk of
physical force; but they know not what an engine they are
about to lay their hands on when they appeal to it ; nor how
incapable In general those are to direct who presume to invoke
its interference. But to return to the question of last night.
We hope that Ministers will persevere in the task which they
have now undertaken till they come to a satisfactory arrange-
ment. The interests of Christianity itself require that a better
understanding should subsist between the Church and those
who support the Church. It must be the wish of every good
man that the Ministers who have proposed the inquiry may suc-
ceed in bringing it to a successful issue ; but we hope that
those who have hitherto evinced any thing but a spirit of conci-
liation, will at last see the evil and the guilt of inflaming the
passions of men to the injury, if not the ruin, of their common
countrymen.—Morning Ilerald.