The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-17 00:00:00

taxes. He had also to recollect the great distress which
the city he represented (Glasgow) endured from Irish
distress, and that recently the influx of the Irish poor
had quadrupled the poor rate in that city. He had,
therefore, great difficulty in coming to the conclusion to
vote in favour of the small grant of 50.0001. which th,
Government had proposed; bur, when he recolheted
that some of the unions had entered into engagements,
and had, possibly, spent a part of the money now to he
voted-(Hear, hear, and a laugh)—he could not hesitate
to vote in its favour. He had, however, voted for it on
the ground that it would be the last grant that would be
taken out of the revenue of the country; and he ex-
pected that in future Government would lay on the
whole property of Ireland a tax of so much in the pound,
to meet the exigencies of the country.—(dear, hear.)
He could not help referring to the extensive immigra,
tion into Glasgow from Ireland, and of a class, too, inca-
pable of working—children, and old men and women.
Taking into account the number of loans that had been
made to Ireland, he would prefer that the present sum
should be given rather as a gift than as a loan. He
could not, under the circumstances in which many of
the unions were placed, bring himself to vote against the
present grant.

Mr. NAPIER said he was satisfied if they thought
that a people who had shown so much generosity as the
people of this country had shown, would net be wilfully
unjust—(Hear, hear)—and he felt that if the Irish
Members would endeavour to instruct them as to the
real condition of Ireland, they would do better than by
an indulgence in language of a severe or retaliatory
character.—(Hear, hear.) The difficulties of Ireland
could no longer be evaded—(Hear,hear)—if Ireland was
to be continued in political union with England. She
was taken into partnership at the time of the Union,
but instead of enjoying the advantages which
that event promised her, she had only been made
the watchword of party—(Hear)—and the battlefield on
which party politics were fought. No one could doubt
that it would be a great advantage to conciliate Ireland,
and to assimilate her to the condition of England. That
could not be done suddenly; but it must be recollected
that Ireland bad now been for half a century united to
England, and yet nothing could be more wretched, than
the spectacle she presented. It could not be borne that she
should be continued in such a position, and coming year
after year, like a mendicant, imploring for aid.—(Hear,
hear.) It was fit that that House should join together
and endeavour, by wise counsels, to ascertain what were
the causes which placed that country in her unhappy
and miserable condition, with a view to their entire re-
moval and extirpation. At the time of the union it
would be recollected that the religious and political
questions which had so long agitated that country were
not settled. But it came down to the year 1829, when
the measure of Catholic emancipation was carried. He
would remind lion. Members that at that time a great
body of evidence was given before the Committee that sat
upon that question, to the effect that nearly one-fourth of
the population were without any certain employment.—
, (Hear, hear.) At the time that Catholic emancipation
was carried, it was understood that all parties were will
ing to co-operate in improving the condition of the
country. At that time the Catholic hierarchy of Ireland
put forth a manifesto, declaring that Ireland wanted no
further political advantages, and why, he would ask,
did not the Government of England then take up the ques-
tion of the social evils under which Ireland laboured 7
(l-fear.) It had not done so, and England was now
paying for the neglect of, that duty.—(Hear,) The
Hon. Member then referred to the Committees which
had sat upon the state of Ireland in 1830, 1833, and
1835, and stated that the reports of these Committees'
had agreed in the neglect with which successive Go-
vernments had acted towards Ireland, and the necessity
of an immediate change in the course of policy pursued
towards that country. The recommendations of these
Committees had been neglected, and hence that
beautiful and fertile country presented at the
present moment nothing but misery and desti-
tution.—(Hear, hear.) Each succeeding Commit-
tee blamed its predecessor, again and again re-
peating that one-fourth of the population were out
of employment; and that the application of capital was
the only means of bettering their condition. The House
must not lose sight of the fact that Ireland had an en•
cumbered landed proprietary, and that Although they had
in the last session passed a Bill for facilitating the sale of
encumbered estates, not a single property had yet been
sold under the provisions of that Bill.—(Hear.) There
was no labour fund or capital in that country, the pro-
perty was encumbered, and the resources of Ireland were
diminished, while no stimulant was applied to industry.
One million of the rental of Ireland was under the Court
of Chancery, and there could be no improvement on those
estates. It was a large series of practically simple mea-
sures they required for the amelioration of the country,
and not what was called comprehensive measures. The
recommendations of the experienced Secretary to the
Devon Commission, in the year 1846, had not been
attended to, and the report of the Commission ap-
pointed in the year 1845, just preceding the famine
of 1846, met with a similar fate. The pledge given
by Lord Lansdowne that there would be measures of an
ameliorative character had not been fulfilled. The im-
perfections of the poor-law were manifest; but, on the
other hand, he admitted that the generosity of the Eng-
lish people in relieving the destitution which afflicted his
country had no parallel in English history. There were
three classes of persons in Ireland subject to the payment
of poor's rates—the proprietors, the tenant farmers, and
the clergy. He admitted that the money contributed by
, the English people had fed the hungry; but at the same
time there could be no doubt that it demoralised the
people of Ireland. After the cutting up of the roads and
half finishing public works, it was well known that the
poor population was in a worse condition than it had
been found, the poverty of the country was increased,
while its resources were diminished. That :being the
state of things, property was called upon to bear the
burden of the poor-law, which, even in ordinary
times, should have been accompanied by measures to
stimulate industry. When the Poor- law Act was
passed, in the reign of Elizabeth, he found that that
very session there was legislation for the purpose of re-
claiming thousands of acres of waste land in England,
and the poor able-bodied population were engaged on
useful public works. If the Irish poor-law had been
accompanied by measures of employment, and the ener-
gies of the people aroused, then the burden imposed on
property for the support of poverty could have been
borne, and the country might have survived. Look at
the miserable poverty-stricken condition of Ireland. He
admitted that the Government had great difficulties to
contend with in legislating for Ireland, but difficulty
was no answer to duty.—(Hear, hear.) Nothing could
possibly be more injurious to Ireland than holding out
prospects of legislating for evils which the energies of
the Irish people alone could remove. The proprietors
had only shattered incomes—there was no market for
labour in the country, there was an absence of anything
like capital, yet 110 measure of a statesman-like character
had been introduced. The measures brought forward by
a Noble Lord, now called to his last account, and with
whom he had not the honour of being acquainted, were
of a character calculated to develope the resources of the
country, and they characterised him, at all events, as an
honest Englishman, anxious for the good of Ireland.—
(Hear.) The agricultural improvement of the country
was the main thing to be attended to, and they could not
do that without capital. A few nights since they were
promised a Franchise Bill, but it was legislation in that
spirit which was the curse of Ireland. lie begged of the
House to meet the difficulties which presented themselves
fairly and honestly. The Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland
said that the country required repose, and he (Mr. Na-
pier) begged, that as agitation had subsided they should
have some measures for promoting the employment of
the people. There never was a nobler opportunity, they
might depend upon it, for a wise statesman than the pre-
sent, for reconstructing large portions of Ireland on a
permanent and peaceful footing. He was not one of those
who desired to screen his country from fair taxation;
but they should candidly examine her circumstances,
weigh her deliberately in the scale, and when they did so,
place on her whatever burden she was in justice bound
to bear. Capital, he repeated, was the great requirement.
With regard to those ,proprietors who had capital, and
who were willing to expend it on the improvement of
their estates and the employment of the people—they
were entitled to protection, for every man anxious to do
his duty ought to be protected in the performance cf that
duty ; and the best mode of effecting this was to care-
fully avoid the system of increasing the liability of the
improving landlord, who, by the expenditure of his
capital, and the encouragement of labour, increased the
value of his property. Improvement ought to be a protec-
tion against instead, as it now appeared was the case, of
being a direct incentive to increased taxation. If the
Legislature, with increased wisdom, retraced their false
steps, and legislated for Ireland in the manner which he
had ventured to point out, they would set up that
country again in the scale of nations, and in the progress
of civilization, place her side by side with England.
Mr. HORSMAN eulogised the interesting and in-
structive character of the speech just delivered by the
Hon. and Learned Member for the University of Dublin,
and stated that the circumstances which he had detailed
were in themselves sufficient to induce him to give his
vote in favour of the Government proposition, and
against the amendment of the Hon. Member for Stroud.
Besides, he could not support that amendment, inas-
much as it assumed that in acceding to the vote asked by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer they had any choice
in the matter. He was decidedly opposed to the prin-
ciple of grants in aid of Irish distress; but then the
Government had made a strong appeal to their humanity,
which he for one could not resist, and on any other
ground they had not a leg to stand on. He felt and ad-
mitted, to the fullest extent, that those grants had a de-
moralising tendency on the people: but she question
they had to consider was, whether, under the peculiar
circumstances of Ireland, the appeal made to them should
not be affirmatively responded to. When the crisis
came, and the maintenance of the poor was thrown on
the property of the country, the burdt•n of the rate
broke down those by whom the rates were to be paid.
A devastating famine stalked through the land—there
was nothing like it in the history of the world—the
whole property of Ireland was confiscated to the support
of the poor of Ireland, yet still, the poor were in a state
of famine. He could not, as a Christia❑ Legislator, re-
fuse, under those circumstances, his sanction to the vote,
which was rendered imperative by every precept of the
Christia❑ code. Nor could he attach to the vote the
conditions required by the Hon. Member for Stroud.
The Noble L ,rd at the head of the Government bad
emphatically and properly declined to pledge himself
that the present grant would be the last asked for the
purpose of relieving Irish distress. lie did not
acknowledge it as part of his policy, but he admitted he
was bowed down to it from a feeling of its necessity. If
similar circumstances :again arose he (Mr. Horstnan)
would be compelled by those circumstances to support
another vote; but there was ample security in the tone
and temper of Parliament, and of the debate, which in-
dicated that they would not be trifled with on that im-
portant question, and that the Minister relying on future
grants would prepare for himself certain defeat. He
blamed Government for not lacing prepared with other
measures of a more statesman-like character, and more