The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-05 00:00:00

the institutions of England and Scotland ?—( Cheers. )
That was all that was asked, and that was what was resisted
in the present amendment. But he put it to the honesty of
his Majesty's Ministers—again and again he appealed to their
common honesty—whether they should permit their high
honour to be once more tarnished—whether they should allow
themselves to be dragged through the kennel once more—( Oh,
oh !) But no ; he could not suppose it. They were deli-
vered from their former difficulties ; the " calamity" of the
Administration was no longer amongst them.—( Hear, hear,
hear.) They were relieved, and were now disposed to do
justice to Ireland. They had placed the Government of that
country in the hands Of a nobleman far beyond his (Mr.
O'Connell's) praise ' • but who, he could not help observing,
had
with ,
had had the singular
fortune to pass unassailed by n
most venemous Presses that was ever tinged
dared
to bring
ureangeism
in any country. Even that Press had not
against him one charge of partiality or undue preference.—
(Cheers, and oh, oh.) He repeated they had not. If those
who cried " Oh, oh !" meant to contradict him, let them spe-
cify their charge ; let them reduce to words. Oh no ;th
dared not. They knew they .would become the laughing-
ey
stock and the ridicule of Englishmen.—( Hear, hear.) Yes,
the Government had done well, and what was theconse-
quence ? Why, that they had given the utmost satisfaction
even to the popular party in Ireland. Not one of that party
bad been raised to power or to place, and yet they
Ade. not
only satisfied, but struggled to support the present minis-
tration. There was he, and there were those who acted with
him, in that spirit, to implore the house to remember the duty
which they owed,not to any party, not to Toryism or Orangeism,
but to their King, their country, and to the peace of Ireland.
Cheers.) What was it that the Irish people wanted ?
Simply to become a part of England.—( Hear, hear.) True,
they had sighed and struggled to procure a domestic legisla-
ture, 'and perhaps to that object might still be directed the as-
pirations of his own heart.—( Hear, hear.) But he and they
were ready to give it up. He called upon that House to
witness that they were ready to abandon the repeal for ever,
upon one condition, and one only—that of being placed upon
a perfect equality with England and Scotland.—(Cheers.)
Talk not to him of their Union as it hitherto existed—
their Cabinet parchment union. Let them remember that
there were in Ireland six million five hundred thousand of
one persuasion, and five hundred thousand of another, una-
nimous in their determination to use every peaceable means
in their power to obtain justice—from England if possible,
if not from themselves.—( Oh, oh ! and hear.) He spoke not
thus as a threat.—(" Oh, oh !") Well, be it so ; let it be a
menace ; but was it not a constitutional menace ? They had
never violated a law ; but had proceeded in a peaceable course,
by which they wrung concession by concession from the un-
willingness of their rulers. Sorry would he be to be driven
to the re-adoption of such a course ; but though years were
coming upon him he was in heart young as ever ; ready
as ever to begin, if necessary, the struggle for the liberty
of his country—of that country of which he gloried in be-
ing the hired and pensioned advocate.—( Hear, hear.) He
stood in a position never occupied by man before. He was the
.6 hireling" if they would—the pensioner, the servant, ay, the
slave, if they chose—of the people of Ireland : but he was the
representative of their sentiments.—( Cheers.) And on their
behalf what was it he asked ? An expression of a hope that
Ireland should be put upon an equality with England and
Scotland. lie wanted no boon—no loan of twenty millions—
but the sincere expression of this hope. And would they—
could they refuse this ?—( Cheers.) He would not say, dare
they ; but humbly and submissively he should appeal to them
as English gentlemen to rally with the Ministry that night, and
give to Ireland the poor consolation of a hope that justice
might be done to her. Nothing more was asked than the ex-
pression of this hope.—( Hear, hear.) Surely it was worth
their consideration whether they should deny it. Never, he
could assure them, would they have such an opportunity of
conciliating Ireland by doing justice.—(Cheers.) Did they
forget 1825 ?—( Hear.) Were the lessons of history throe n
away upon them ?—( Hear.) History, it was said, made even
fools wise ; and he should call to their recollection the year
1825, when the people of Ireland were upon their knees,
begging for justice as a beggar's boon. They were scorned ;
their prayer was rejected. His own speeches, he remem-
bered, were flung tauntingly at him from the Treasury benches
of that House, when he had no opportunity of replying. The
" other place" had rejected their prayer, but were soon con-
vinced that the peaple were not to be scorned with impurity.
And the Noble Lord, it seemed, had discovered that because
" the other place" refused to hold out a hope to Ireland, that
house ought to acquiesce. With all deference for that Noble
Lord—a worse argument he could not possibly have urged.
The reason he had urged was the very reason why that House
should not acquisce.—( Cheers.) Ireland had no hope front
that " other place," but she had much hope from the House
of Commons.—( Oh ! and cheers.) He repeated she had no
hope from the other House of Parliament, but he stood
there as the living representative of the hopes which she
had from the Commons of England, and he said, empliati-
tically, that it' they had no other reason for refusing to ac-
quiesce in the opinion of the other House, they ought to
do so, in order to show that the representatives of the peo-
ple of England were anxious to do justice to Ireland.
( Hear, hear.) Allusion had been made to the power and
influence which he possessed. That power he derived from
public opinion ; and what, he asked, created that opinion ?
Injustice—the injustice inflicted upon Ireland.—( Chars. )
Those who were adverse to his possessing that power could
weaken—could destroy it.—( Hear.) Let them only do justice
to Ireland.—( Cheers.) But let them refuse that justice and they
wounded the country to the heart's core—they shook to the very
base the Throne of the Monarch for which they professed their
respect, and they weakened that union which they appeared
anxious to perpetuate.—(Cheers.) They had vaunted their
determination to support that union " even to the death," and
there were the Irish people now ready to go with them and
support it " to the death," upon the condition, however, that
equal justice should be done to them with the people of Eng-
land and Scotland.—( Hear.) Until that justice, however,
was thme, they would not cease to seek for it, and if it could not
be obtained from England, they must seek it for themselves.—
(" Hear, hear," and " Ohl") Every man who heard him
now must acknowledge that the course he was adopting in ask-
ing for it was the proper and constitutional one.---( Hear.)
They might condemn, as much as they pleased, the course he
adopted elsewhere; but that which he now did must surely
meet with their approbation.—( Hear, hear.) Hon. Members
on the opoosite side may taunt him and the Ministry, if they
would, with having formed a coalition. They might renew
against him t he vulgar prejudice that used to exist against an
Irishman and a Papist ; they might send abroad their minions
to sow discord o.nd disaffection—to pour out calumny and slan-
der—calling tlx.mselves, the while, ministers of the God of
charity—(Hear, Dear, hear)—still they could not evade the
question really before the House, which lay in an exceedingly
narrow compass. He demanded for Ireland, in the spirit of
the Constitution, equal justice—the advantage of the same
principles of Government as were extended to England and
Scotland. He would not take less. They might grant it
with advantage—they would refuse it at their peril.—( Cheers. )
Mr. SHAW had but a few words to offer in reply to the
observations of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had
just sat down. The ground of opposition to the Address was,
that it was unwise to apply a principle to the Government of
any country without taking into consideration what was the
condition of that country. He agreed with that Hon. and
Learned Member, that there were many who had the phraseology
of religion on their lips, but very little of its spirit in their
hearts.—( Cheers.) When the Noble Lord opposite talked
of giving " the power of control" to the corporate bodies, he
appeared to overlook the wide distinction between vigilant
popular control on the one hand, and reckless popular violence
on the other. The Noble Lord admitted that the country was
in a distempered state when so much power could be possessed
by an individual.—( Hear, hear.) While he admitted such to
be the state of the country, he yet proposed to deal with it as
though it were in a sound and wholesome state.—( Hear,
hear.) Did the Noble Lord suppose that by the adoption of
this " principle," as it was termed, any one of those indivi-
duals who voluntarily contributed their share to the compul-
sory tribute to make an individual what he had described
himself—the pensioner on their bounty, would enjoy more
liberty or more happiness than at present.—( Hear, hear.)
When the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin talked of

" doing justice" to the people of Ireland, he was guilty of
a gross misapplication of terms. I% hat did he mean by
" justice to Ireland ?"—( Hear, hear.) Was it, or was it
not, the giving to himself a personal power to corrupt the
sourcos of justice ?—( Hear, hear.) Was it, or was it not,
the placing of the King's executive wholly within his control ?
No doubt that Hon. and Learned Gentleman gave the meed of
his approbation to the administration of Ireland : but when he
talked of impartiality, and gave credit to the Irish Government
for not raising to office any individual of the popular party,
no one better understood than himself the distinction between
office and power. —( Hear, hear.) The House had been told
by that Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that in his recent pro-
gress through Ireland the people of that country had consented
to abandon the question of repeal ; but he had omitted to
mention, that in the very address in which he asked them to
do so, he declared that he was as ardent a Repealer as ever,
and expressed his conviction that no Legislature except a do-
mestic one could ever possibly do justice to Ireland.—( Loud
cheers.) The amendment which had been proposed undertook
that every real grievance of the people of Ireland should be
redressed, and that all corporation abuses should be corrected.
For himself he declared, that he would not conceal any single
corporation abuse from the most searching reform. Cries
of "Oh I") There was no misapplication of the public
money which he would either sanction or permit. If
they did away with self-election, they ought not to adopt
personal nomination.—( Hear, hear, hear.) If they did
away with exclusion on the one hand, they ought not altoge-
ther to shut out those who, whatever might be their faults,
were warmly, honestly, and efficiently attached to the connec-
tion—to the common interest and the religion of the two
countries.—(Cheers.) And yet if they applied the principle
of the English Corporation Reform Bill to Ireland, it would
be taking from these men the power they possessed, and
transferring it to the hands of those who were the natural
.enemies of that connection, and of the interests of the two
,countries.—( Cheers.)
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the original motion 284
43
For the amendment 9
Majority in favour of Ministers ......-41
The annouflcement of the numbers was received with deafen-
ing cheers on the Ministerial side of the House.
POOR-LAWS (IRELAND).
During our exclusion from the Gallery,
Sir RICHARD MUSGRAVE gave notice that he would
on Tuesday next move for leave to bring in a Bill for the in-
troduction of a system of poor-laws into Ireland.
CARLOW ELECTION.
Mr. HARDY gave notice that he would shortly (we did
not hear on what day) bring forward a motion relative to the
election, in June last, of Alexander Raphael, Esq and N. A
• A.

Vigors, Esq., as Members to serve in Parliament for the
county of Carlow.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at eleven o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 4.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at
five o'clock.
After his Majesty had left the House this morning, the
LORD CHANCELLOR and Lord LANGDALE took the oaths and
their seats.

The LORD CHANCELLOR having read his Majesty's Speech,
and the same having been again read by the Clerk at the
table,
The Duke of LE INSTER rose and addressed the House
as follows :—My Lords, I can assure your Lordships it is with
great diffidence that I rise to address you. I have not the
excuse of youth and inexperience in the forms of the House,
but I trust your Lordships will show me that indulgence,
which every Member of your House has experienced under
similar circumstances. My Lords, we have this day heard a
most gracious speech from his Majesty, and it will be ne-
cessary for me, not only to consult your convenience but
my own, by adverting shortly to the various topics his Ma-
jesty has introduced into his speech.—( Hear, hear.) My Lords,
his Majesty first states that the condition of the country is
most flourishing. That, my Lords, is certainly highly gra-
tifying. His Majesty next, my Lords, says that he continues
to receive assurances from Foreign Powers, of their friendly
disposition towards this country. That, my Lords, must
be also highly gratifying to all. My Lords, his Ma-
jesty next trusts that he shall succeed in the mediation
which he has offered between France and the United States.
In that hope, my Lords, I trust his Majesty will not. be disap-
pointed. My Lords, we all have to lament the war in
Spain, and I trust that the measures taken by the Ministry of
that country will succeed in putting an end to that struggle—
( Cheers). The estimates for the present year are to be laid
before your Lordships, and although in some parts they are
greater than last year, I trust your Lordships will give your
sanction to them. The maritime force of the country has
been increased, and I am sure that your Lordships will all
agree with me, that it is necessary to keep up that force which
has long been the pride and honour of this country.--( fleas,
hear.) My Lords, there is distress in some parts of the
country, and his Majesty has kindly stated that it is his wish
that inquiry should be made into it. I own, for myself,
.that
I do not think any good will result from that inquiry,
but still it may be desirable that such inquiry should take place
to satisfy the public mind.--( Hear, hear, and cheers.) With
respect to the Church of Ireland, I trust that your Lordships
will give all that consideration to the which it deserves,
and that the result of your deliberations will be the intro-
duction of such salutary measures as will be productive of
the greatest good.—( Hear, hear.) His Majesty, my Lords,
next alludes to the grievances of Dissenters. I trust, also, that
to this important subject your Lordships will give your best
consideration. The reformation in the Courts of Law I con-
sider to be most necessary. The very name of the Court of
Chancery carries with it dread and horror.—( Hear.) The
next question, my Lords, is with respect to Tithes in Ireland.
Now, in the observations that I may make on this subject, I beg
to be understood as throwing no blame on any individual in
particular ; but I have lately come from Ireland, and I take upon
myself to say that the state of that country is generally quiet ;
the only part of the country that is not so is the county Tip-
perary, which is notorious for always being in a disturbed
state. What is the reason of it I do not know, and I believe it
would be hard to make out. I trust, however, that the
measures of the Noble Viscount, at the head of his Majesty's
Government, will be taken seriously into the consideration
of your Lordships, and that an end will be speedily
put to the discord and clamour that exists.—( Hear, bear.)
With respect to the Municipal Corporations of Ireland, I
trust that they will be placed on the same footing as those in
this country.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) As to the Irish
Poor Laws, that is a question upon which the re-
port of the 'Commissioners has not yet been made.
I have attended to this subject for three yeers,
during my residence in the country, and I am convinced that
some measure must soon be brought forward on this subject
( Loud cries of " Hear.") I speak from experience up to the
present time, but what further I have to say on this subject, I
shall reserve till the question comes before the House. I do
not think that there is any other subject referred to in his
Majesty's speech which it is necessary for me to comment upon,
and therefore I peg leave to move the following address :
The Noble Duke then read the Address, which was, as usual,
an echo of the King's speech.
The Earl of BURLINGTON rose, and said—My Lords,
before I proceed to make any observations on the different
subjects contained in the Speech, to which my Noble Friend
has just called your attention, I am anxious to assure your
Lordships of my desire to follow the example of the Noble
Duke, and to abstain from the introduction of any
thing which would tend to disturb the unanimity with which
this House usually concurs in replying to the Speech from the
Throne. There are many topics to which his Majesty's Speech
alludes, on which I entertain strong and decided opinions, at
variance, perhaps, with a large portion of your Lordships'
House; but as his Majesty's Speech merely indicates the
different measures to which your Lordships' attention IA ill
be called, and as it does not appear to me that you are
called upon in any manner to recognise the principle
of any measure upon which a difference of opinion may be
supposed to exist, I feel that it ;would not be becoming
in me, especially on the first occasion on which I have the
honour of addressing your Lordships, to enter into a discussion
upon those principles, and I will content myself, therefore, with
briefly alluding to the topics contained in his Majesty's
Speech. The attention of the country will no doubt be
arrested by that part of his Majesty's Speech, more partieulaily
directed to the other House of Parliament, respecting the in-
crease in the Navy Estimates for the ensuing year. My Lords,
I feel strongly the necessity of a rigid and persevering economy
in every branch of the public expenditure, and the country ex-
pects it ; but I feel at the same time convinced, that if
other nations think it necessary to increase their naval
resources, the Representatives of the people will not refuse
such supplies for the Naval Estimates to be submitted to you ;
so that the policy of his Majesty's Government will continue
such as will ensure the continuance of peace.—( Cheers.) The
existence of war in any part of Europe is no doubt much to be
deplored, and I am sure that this House will cordially concur
in expressing a hope that the prudence and vigour of the present
Government of Spain will bring back peace to that country.
With respect to the internal condition of the country, I be-
lieve, there is but one opinion upon the state of the manufac-
turing districts. I believe that all classes engaged in the
pursuits of industry are in a most flourishing and satisfactory
condition ; but I am sorry to be obliged to agree with the Ad-
dress, that a great portion of the agricultural districts do not
participate in that prosperity. During the recess we have heard
a great deal of the universal prevalence of agricultural
distress, and in some instances, as it appears to me, mea-
sures of a dangerous nature have been proposed. For
myself, I cannot anticipate that after hearing the evi-
dence of well informed and unprejudiced individuals,
that distress will then be found so universal as has
been represented ( Hear) -- and that for such distress
as may be found to exist, remedies will bwproposed not incon-
sistent with the general welfare of the State. I cannot, how-
ever, leave this part of the subject without observing,
that I do not think it can with justice be said that
Parliament has done nothing to relieve that distress, because
I think a measure that was passed last Session had the effect
of considerably alleviating the condition of the agriculturists.
Hear, hear.) My Lords, I now come to the consideration
of another measure, recommended in his Majesty's Speech, I
mean an alteration in the Tithe system of England and Wales.
I cannot help thinking, that by lessening this impost, as his
Majesty has stated in his Speech, you will considerably remove
the oppressive nature of its operation, and that in some instances
great relief will thereby be afforded to the agricultural districts,
by allaying all dissension on the subject of tithes.-
-(Loud cries of " Hear, Hear.") As to the inquiry into.
the dioceses of England and Wales, I trust the labours of
the Commission may be such as will promote its efficiency, by
removing the grievances which at present have given rise to
so much altercation. I fear that the existence of these

abuses, if they much longer continue, will have the effect of
materially shaking the foundations of the Church ; but I trust
that measures will be proposed, and we have good reason to
be sanguine that they will be adopted, which will meet the

views of the large body of the Clergy. My Lords,
it is unnecessary for me to state at length the grievances of the
Dissenters: they arc well known to your Lordships, and I
believe that all parties have expressed an anxiety to
see them removed. I trust the principle which has
of late years induced Parliament to remove a great portion of
the disabilities and grievances under which their fellow-sub-
jects have laboured, will also have the effect of inducing them
to adopt some measure to relieve the grievances of Dissenters.
After what had fallen from the Noble Duke relativ© to

the state of Ireland, and after the expression of his
opinions, which should always carry with them great weight,
1 would feel that I almost intruded upon the attention
of this House by referring to the subject. In every Speech
from the Throne since the commencement of his present Ala-

jesty's reign, our attention has been directed to the state of the
Tithe question in Ireland ; but unfortunately it remains unset-
tled, and I trust another Session will not be allowed to pass
until this truly important subject is finally arranged. On
a subject upon which it is to be presumed a very great
difference of opinion exists, I shall content myself by
stating what I have already said of other measures, my
anxious hope that such enactments as shall be made will
have the effect of promoting the true interests of reli-
gion and the peace of te country. But I trust
your Lordships will consider the different circumstances
in which the Churches of England and of Ireland are placed.
Your Lordships are aware that I allude to the fact ascer-
tained by a reference to the Report of the Commissioners
en Corporations in Ireland, of the difference of religions
to produce the same results in Ireland. My Lords, I now
come to the question of Irish Poor Laws, and I am sure
there will not be any serious difference of opinion upon
the necessity of affording some relief for the misery and
destitution of the poorer classes of society in Ireland.
The condition of the poor in that country imperatively calls
upon Parliament for its immediate and anxious con-
sideration ; but I am certain you will approach that
subject, with the determination to avoid all the evils of
an ill-advised system, from which the most demoralizing
consequences ensue, and I hope we will act with a caution
commensurate with the circumstances of Ireland. If measures
can be devised in such a spirit, I am sure Parliament will not he-
sitate to sanction a system of poor laws for the Sister country.
The Commissioners have stated their desire, not merely to
alleviate the misery of the people, but, if possible, to reach
the source, and prevent the recurrence of such misery.—
( Hear, hear.) The difficulties of the subject are many, but
I hope Parliament will be able to discover some mode
by which greater relief will be obtained, and a prospect of
continued reward held out to the poor for their continued

exertions. I thank you, my Lords, for the patience with
which you have heard me—(Cheers)—and beg leave to se-
cond the Address.—( Cheering. )
The Address was about to be read, but there were cries for
The Duke of WELLINGTON, who rose and said, My
Lords, I quite concur in the opinions which the Noble
Duke and the Noble Earl opposite have expressed as to the
great importance of the Speech delivered from the Throne.
I believe, my Lords, there never was a speech delivered from
that Throne embracing so many important topics, upon all of
which so much might be said; it would be impossible for me
to attempt to discuss all these topics, and other opportunities
will offer for that purpose. ' I shall therefore follow
the example of the Noble Lords opposite, and say but little
of them, and I wish I could attend to the suggestions of the
Noble Earl who spoke last, and not oppose any part of the
Address which is proposed for your Lordships' consideration.
My Lords, I sincerely rejoice in the first part of his Majesty's
speech, which states that his Majesty entertains no apprehen-
sion that the peace of Europe or the world will be disturbed. I
confess, my Lords, from what I had heard lately of armaments
being prepared or in a state of preparation at the ports of
this Kingdom, I was apprehensive that we might re-
ceive different information upon this occasion ; and it is
very satisfactory for me to find, not only that no such
apprehension exists—( Hear)—but that his Majesty continues
to receive from all powers, princes and states, assurances of
continued friendship towards this country, and that the arma-
ments which we have heard of as being in a state of preparation
for some months are for the purpose of protecting the:com-
merce of this country. lam convinced that the great object of
this country should be at all times not only peace for itself,
but peace for the world.—( Cheers.) I confess that I regretted
that the naval force of this country should ever have been re-
duced from the strength to which I believe it is now about to
be increased.—( Hear, hear.) I regret also being under the
necessity of throwing any difficulties in the way of the Ad-
dress from this House, in answer to his Majesty's Speech be-
ing passed unanimously. I should not do so if it were not for a
particular paragraph in his Majesty's Speech, and a particular
answer in the proposed Address, which it is absolutely
impossible that I can agree to.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear"
from the Marquis of Londonderry.) According to the usual
practice of Parliament, it appears to me, my Lords, that the
King has not been in the habit of indicating the particular
principle upon which measures are to be proposed by Govern-
ment.—( Cheers.) The usual practice has been for the Crown
to draw the attention of Parliament to a particular subject, and
to state that measures will be proposed for the consideration of
Parliament on these subjects ; and it has been usual for this
House to state in answer that Parliament will take the subject
into its serious consideration.—( Hear.) But in the Speech of
this night his Majesty states upon the subject of Corporation
Reform in Ireland—( The Noble Duke here read the passage
in his Majesty's Speech commencing, " you are already in pos-
session of the Report of the Commissioners appointed to in-
quire into the state of Municipal Corporations in Ireland, &c")
—My Lords, it is not usual thus for the Sovereign
to indicate the particular principle upon which a mea-
sure is to be proposed to Parliament.—( Hear.) But,
my Lords, further, the Noble Earl opposite has sta-
ted, and most truly, that the House ought not to be pledged
on this question with respect to the particular principle on
which it is founded. All this House should be asked to
do is, that it should take the matter into its serious consi-
deration.—( Cheers.) And, my Lords, the house should
not be called upon to recognize any principle of this novel
description in the Address to the Throne. My Lords, I
cannot concur in the Address to his Majesty, as it
has so been proposed.—( Cheers. ) (The Noble Duke here
read the passage in the answer, which was an echo of that in
the speech from the Throne.) I think it would be most un-
fair to pledge the house to such a course. I cannot partici-
pate in such hopes as are here expressed, and under these cir-
cumstances I shall propose an amendment to that part of the
Address. I should hope that his Majesty's Ministers do not
intend to call upon the House to pledge itself to
such a course—( Hear)—and the words that I propose to in-
sert are—" that this House shall proceed without delay to the
consideration of any defects or evils, for the purpose of apply-
ing such remedies as may obviate just causes of comfit, int,
and ensure the impartial administration of justice."—( Hear,
hear.) My Lords, I will not detain your Lordships further
upon the subject of the Address ; but I will not sit down w ith-
out asking the Noble Viscount opposite (Melbourne) what
course he intends to pursue, in order to bring these sub.
jects under the consideration of Parliament ?—(Hear, helr.)
I should wish to ask him whether it is his intention to
bring any of them forward in this House in the first
instance ; or what measures he will take, in order that this
House may have them before it at such a period, as to be en-
abled to take them into its mature consideration, without sit-
ting to so late a period of the year as during the last ses-
sion ?—( Hear, hear.)
The amendment having been put,
Lord MELBOURNE rose and said, that although it would
have been much more gratifying to his feelings, as he was sure
it would have been to the minds of other Noble Lords, if the
Noble Duke could have concurred in the Address to his

...-
Majesty, and by that means have given the House an opportu-
nity of voting agreeably to the usual practice on such occasions,
namely, receiving the answer to the Address without any dif-
ference of opinion ; though the concurrence of the Noble Lord
in the answer to the address on the present occasion, would
have been much more satisfactory to him ( Lord Melbourne) ;
yet at the same time he could not but congratulate himself on
the circumstance of the difference in opinion between the
Noble Duke and himself as to the various points to which the
Noble Duke had stated his objection, Efing of so very little im-
portance compared with the other topics embraced in the
Speech, that the difference between himself (Lord Melbourne)
and the Noble Duke, was hardly of any importance.—( Hear.)
The Noble Duke had spoken somewhat in the spirit of exag-
geration when he said that this was the most important sp,cch
which had ever emanated from the throne. The address
of his Majesty, it was true, referred to many topics of
great importance to the country ; but when Noble Lords
considered the various eventful periods throuerh which this
nation had lately passed—the many important changes which
had been produced in the country, he (Lord Melbourne) was
sure the Noble Duke must at once perceive, the in character-
ising the present speech as the most important which had ever
emanated from the Throne, he was speaking in the spirit of
• exaggeration. With regard to what the Noble Duke had stated
respecting the foreign policy which ought to be pursued by this
country, he (Lord Melbourne) most cordially and entirely
concurred. And he had no hesitation in stating that he
would give every assistance in his power to carry the views
of the Noble Duke in this respect into effect.
T
servation of peace was one great object to which the
he
Go-
vernment, of which he (Lord Melbourne) was the head,
would direct all its efforts.—(Cries of " Hear, hear,
hear.") He also agreed with the Noble Duke in
the sentiments he had expressed with regard -to the
propriety of maintaining an effective naval force in the coun-
try, and in any addition it was intended to make to it, that addi-
tion would be made solely with the view of preserving our
superiority over the naval force of other powers, and of afford-
ing every protection to the growinc, commerce of the coon-
try.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the remarks which the
Noble Duke had made respecting the suggestions con-
tained in his Majesty's speech, as to the course which
the Legislature ought to adopt in reference to an intended
measure for the relief of the poor in Ireland, he (Lord Mel-
bourne) saw no reason why the Noble Duke should assume
that such suggestions were unusual, unless he could produce
precedents bearing on the same circumstances. Why
should not such suggestions be made ? He (Lord Mel-
bourne) saw no reason whatever to prevent the House
from adopting that part of the Address as it now stood. That
paragraph in his Majesty's speech, he could assure the Noble
Duke, had been well and duly considered by his Majesty's Go-
vernment. His Majesty's speech did not say that the House
was bound to adopt the same provision in the one case which
had been adopted in the others.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
His Majesty's Government had carefully guarded against
that. They were prepared to say that if those provisions
• contained in the measure for England were not suitable for
Ireland, they of course ought not to be adopted ; what was
said in his Majesty's speech merely referred to principles. He
(Lord Melbourne) would therefore say that there was no
material difference between the original motion and the amend-
ment proposed by the Noble Duke. The House would not
be bound by either the one or the other to adopt any particular
mode of procedure, when the measure should be brought
under their consideration. He therefore hoped, especially as
it would be much more respectful to his Majesty, that the
Noble Duke would withdraw his amendment, and allow the
House to agree to the Address as it originally stood, which
would preserve the unanimity usual on such occasions.
The Earl of WINC HE LSE A rose, and said that he would
most certainly vote for the amendment of the Noble Duke ;
the only objection he had to that amendment was, that it did
not express hostility to the principles on which the present
Government carried on both the foreign and domestic poliey.
—( Hear, hear, from Lord Londonderry.) They were
principles
at direct variance with those on which the Government of this
great country ought to be conducted, and had greatly
contri-
buted to the degradation of the national character. The
priciples on which our domestic policy had been conducted had
brought the civil and religious institutions of the country to the
very verge of destruction.—(" Hear," from the Opposition.)
This ceased to be a matter of surprise, when they reflected that
the Speech from the Throne did not contain the remotest
allusion to certain political events which had occurred since
last session—events with which certain individuals were mixed
up, to whom he would presently more particularly allude—
individuals whose conduct had absorbed the attention of every
reflecting mind—he alluded to that daring agitation, which,
during the recess, had been carried on in different parts of
country. That agitation not only related to the an-
nihilation of that branch of the Legislature, but
contemplated the entire subversion of the Monarchy itself.
In any other but these degenerate days of ours, the indi-
viduals to whom he referred would have met with merited
punishment for the seditious courses they pursued. If we
looked back to the many dangers from which this country h 4
escaped, they would see the numerous attempts which had
been made to overthrow the institutions of the country ; but he
(the Earl of Winchelsea) would confine himself to those
which had been made during the French war. If ever this
country was justified in engaging in any war whatever,
it was the war to which he had referred.—( Hear, hear.)
Look around ; there was not one bright speck in the political
desert. He would caution the Noble Viscount at the head of
his Majesty's Government to beware of what course he pur-
sued ; for the moment a principle of equality was adopted,
property would bHeeawt
eagnseenrdry, athnedtraelNigeiohnleaEnderll,a
fwe sr
whomit)
hbee
greatest respect, holding the high station which he
gehtsster kingdom, should have received an Hon.
Gentleman
dhs eiadtdatit
hnneot
uh
at his Court, immediately after his having gone
upon a tour of agitation.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl
mereconcluded
matter by
o f sayingd doubt
b t
;thatt eherreligwiaosn
own al
ys
onno leftet
religion, h o t
whichem as
ita

was the duty of Christian Ministers, and a Christian Legisla-
ture, to maintain, and that was the Protestant Religion. Their
Lordships had taken an oath to maintain it, but he believed if
measures were passed which were recommended in the address,
the most mischievous consequences would ensue, and such as
would endanger that religion they had sworn to maintain ;
and therefore he trusted they would support the amendment
which had been proposed by the Noble Duke.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE said they were called upon,
in the Speech which they had heard that day, to remedy cer-
tain grievances, upon certain principles. Now, for his part,
he agreed with the Noble Lords opposite that these
grievances ought to be remedied ; but, at the same
time he objected to be pledged to any specific remedy.
They were called upon to remedy grievances upon the prin-
ciple of a measure which bad recently been adopted, but re-
medies which might be very proper with regard to England
and Scotland might be most improper when applied to Ire-
land, where other measures might be found to answer better.
He therefore hoped the Noble Duke would persevere in his
amendment. _

The Marquis of L ANSDOWNE was not disposed to offer
any captious opposition to the amendment which had been
proposed by the Noble Duke, if the end which it was so de-
sirable to obtain could be accomplished, namely, unanimity ;
but he felt it his duty to guard himself and his colleagues
from any intention of pledging the House to any principle.—
( Hear, hear, hear.) The word " principle " was selected,
as the most comprehensive term, and as affording the
widest scope for the discussion of the remedies to be applied
to the grievance alluded to in the Speech from the Throne.
He was not disposed to make any objections to the word which
had been objected to by the Noble Duke; but at the same
time he felt it due to himself and his colleagues, to guard them,
in consenting to leave out the word, against any-pledge as to
the nature of the measure which they might think fit to introduce,
and to state that on agreeing to do so they were not precluded
from bringing in a Bill upon the same principle as the English
Municipal Bill ; satisfied as he was that any measure short of
this would not give satisfaction to that country.
The Duke of WELLINGTON expressed his satisfaction
at the statement of the Noble Marquis. He objected to the
word solely on the ground that he conceived the House would
be pledged by it to adopt a remedy for grievances upon a spe-
cific principle ; and he would now say that the Noble Lord,
in agreeing to his amendment, would not be precluded
from introducing any Bill he might think fit.--( Hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON again rose and begged to
ask the Noble Viscount whether it was his intention to intro-
duce in that House any of those measures with a view to faci-
litate the public business?
Lord MELBOURNE—It is our intention to bring for-
ward as speedily as possible some of the most important mea-
sures recommended by his Majesty.—(Cheers.)
The amendment was then agreed to without a division, and
the House adjourned until half-past Twelve o' Clock to-mor-
row—(this day.)