The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-15 00:00:00

laymen to take the initiative and propose measures, and
he Faw the results to settch -eels a m‘ esura would held.
and therefore he rightly lit hii roe o r.-Ao6lO
to do any such thiug. He was then adviad by some of
the parties by whom he was surrounded to quit Reme.
His flight, if he bad given notice of hie intention, in all
probability would not have been prevented. No attempt
beyond entreaties would have been made to arrest it.
But, instead of ascertaining the a ishes of his country-
men, he adopted other advice, and fled from Rome in dis.
guise, which showed a strange want of confidence in his
subjects.
Lord BROUGHAM—Had the assassins of Rossi been
arrested at that time?
Lord BEAUMONT had heard the observation of his
Noble and Learned Friend. Though generally he le-
spected what fell from the Noble and Learned Lord, he
regretted to tell him that on this occasion, as indeed on
many others, it was impossible for any man to fathom
his motives. His assertions, one after another, were in-
consistent with themselves and all contrary to fast; and
it would not be long before he beard from those whom he
had slandered that his assertions were falsehoods, and
before he would be called upon to contradict or retract
them.—(Order, order.)
Lord BROUGHAM—I have allowed the Noble
Baron to go on without interruption in one of the most
irregular speeches which I ever heard delivered in this
House.
The Earl of WICKLOW (we wero told)—There is
no irregularity.
Lord BROUGHAM—No irregularity?
The Earl of WICKLOW—Not in his speech.
Lord BROUGHAM—There is irregularity, and the
gross irregularity is this—the Noble Baron puts a ques-
tion, and prefaces it by a long speech, which is perfectly
irregular.
The Earl cf WICKLOW--It is done every day.
Lord BROUGHAM—The only office of a speech is to
introduce a question and make it intelligible to the Go•
vernment which has to answer it. But to make a long
speech, and to refer to former debates, and to say that
any Noble Lord's assertions are falsehoods—(Hear,
hear)—is a course so irregular that I never saw it taken
in this House before; and I receive the statement just
made, from whomsoever it comes, with the most absolute
contempt.— (Hear, hear.)
Lord BEAUMONT—I am now doing what the Noble
and Learned Lord admits that I am strictly entitled to
do. lam making a statement to render my question in-
telligible, and, if my speech be longer than it otherwise
would have been, it arises from the erroneous statements
of the Noble and Learned Lord.
Lord BROUGHAM—My- Lords, I ask whether it is
either regular or orderly, even according to the lastest
rule of order, for any Noble Lord, on the information of
an Italian, I know not whorn,:fto accuse another Noble
Lord of having delivered falsehoods to the House. I will
pin the Noble Lord to that expression of falsehood. He
may either explain it, or retract it, or apologize for it;
not, indeed, to me, because I despise it, but to the
House, whose orders he has violated.
Lord BEAUMONT—I certainly did use the word
falshood, and said that statements were put forward
which were false; but I never thought they were the
falsehoods of the Noble Lord. Whatever may be the
violence of his language, I have too much respect for my
Noble and Learned Friend himself, even in moments
like these, to say he would state anything which was
false, knowing it was false. Falsehood is too strong,
perhaps, but if I had used a milder form of expression,
still the meaning would have been the same. I think
falsehood is not a word which ought to be used, and
if it did escape me lam the . first to retract it, as I
do not even wish to use such language, and if I have
offended the Noble and Learned Lord I willingly apo-
logise to him. My only object was to show that many
of the statements put forward before the public
were not in accordance with the truth. The Noble
Lord then proceeded to say that no attempt what-
ever had' been made by the Government of the Sove-
reign Pontiff to arrest the assassins of Count Rossi; and
the first step for that object was taken by the Provi-
sional Government of Rome. Different schemes were
then suggested at Gaeta; for Austria was said to allow
Spain and Naples to interfere, and that France and her-
self should be neutral. Gaeta was then the scene of
self-interest bet Ween these powers, and during their dis.-
cussions thereon the Roman Republic was proclaimed,
and all who supported that form of government should
be thought to have spoken the will and voice of the
Roman people; for, though the number of Republicans
might not be very numerous, yet it was the wish of
the people that laymen should have a share in the
administration of their political affairs. In this state
of things it appeared that France suddenly sent
an expedition from Toulon to Civita Vecchia
which deceived the Roman people, for, according to
their proclamation, they made these people believe
that their object was to prevent the entrance of the
Austrians, and were consequently received by them as
friends; Cut when the contrary appeared manifest, in
that their intentions were to restore the Pope, they (the
Roman people) acted as became them, by opposing the
French soldiery.—(Hear, hear.) Ile felt that he was
speaking the opinion of the Roman Catholics of all
countries who were anxious that their religion should
not be stained, when he stated that it was now impos-
sible for Rome to go back to pure absolutism, and that
the time had arrived when the temporal and spiritual
power of the Pope should be separated, and that their
government should no longer continue as it had been.
Lie therefore wished to know from her Majesty's Go-
vernment what were the intentions of the French Go-
vernment in sending out their forces to Italy; whether it
was for the good of the Pope, or for the
peace of that country.—(Hear, hear.) He should
say, with regard to the other two questions, first,
with respect to Austria, he did not thiale that
Austria had violated the Roman States, for though
they entered Tuscany, yet that was no portion of the
Roman States, and should not, therefore, be unjustly
charged with that act; and, secondly, theKiug of Naples,
who should be the last to attempt any undue interference
between the Sovereign Pontiff and the people of Rome,
as he strongly disclaimed against any interference what=
ever between himself and his suffering subjects, the Si-
cilians. It was well known that he has violated the in-
dependent States of the Church, and was now marching
with a strong force into Rome. He wished to know
whether her Majesty's Government bad any communi-
cation relative to those extraordinary proceedings •• and
whether the Government had taken any part in 'those
proceedings?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he did not
wish to interrupt the Noble Lord (Lord Beaumont)
in his preface to his questions ; but from what fell
from him he should say, that the present was not a
suitable time to enter into a discussion on events
that have taken place in Italy, as stated by the
Noble Lord, he would not say whether accurately or not,
as such was not at present necessary. But ho would
give a short answer to the question, whether the British
Government had received any communication from the
French Government as to the latter's interfering in
Italy, by sending out forces there. On the 21st April
last, he (the Marquis of Landowne) had received a com-
munication that they (the French Government) intended
to send out forces for the preservation of the peace of
Italy, and for the restoration of a constitutional and re-
gular Government. He should add, that he belived that
the march of those French forces on Rome was owing to
the orders of the Commander-in-Chief; and not through
any instructions from the French Government. He
could not answer any more with respect to the interfe-
rence of France. Next, with regard to the assumed in-
vasion of Austria, he did not know that any such inva-
sion took place, and he assured their Lordships that no
communication whatever took place between Austria
and Naples with this country. He should also say, with
regard to the works of art, that he had no information
whatever on the subject.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said that ho thought that
their Lordships should expect more information on the
important questions put by the Noble Lord (Lord Beau-
mont) than had been given in the reply. When the
Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) stated that 20,000 French
troops took possession of the heart and centre of Italy,
for the purpose of preserving peace and of restoring a
constitutional Government, he (the Earl of Aberdeen)
thought that there should be more information than that
given to their Lordships on so important a question. He
bad no wish to criticise and speak hostilely of the French
Government; but when he had heard that the Prime
Minister had publicly stated that the French forces were
to remain there until peace, and a regular Government
would be estahliihed, he would ask, how long would that
be? for to all it was a matter of doubt when that legiti-
mate power would be established.—(Hear, hear.) The
French Government also stated that it was to prevent
foreign powers from interfering, but he would ask,
are not the French as much foreigners to the Roman
States as the Austrians ? He thought that they were
more so, for the Austrians are closer and more inti-
mately connected with the Roman States than the
French, and therefore it could not be a matter of in-
difference to that House or the country that such pro-
ceedings should take place without their mature con-
sideration; for when he looked to the declaration of
Franco on that occasion, he Should say that it appeared
to him that France had not spoken the truth. Ho be-
lieved that the interference of the Austrians was through
a friendly feeling towards the Pope, and also that France
interfered to prevent the invasion of any foreigner. But
that reminded him of the declaration of King John,
when these two Powers went to Angiers--
" Oh prudent discipline, from north and south,
Austria and France shoot in each other's mouth."
Ho asked, was that the issue of the British Govern-
ment's great and extraordinary mission, that 20,000
French soldiers should be brought into the centre of
Italy? He believed that the mission of the Noble Earl
(Earl Minto) was most fatal to Italy.
Earl MINT° said that he did not mean to enter into
a long discussion on those questions, but should say,
with respect to his conduct on that great and extraordi-
nary mission, as it had been termed; that no person
could doubt that he was for the expulsion of the
Austrians from Italy, and he denied that any such de-
duction could be drawn from anything be (Earl Minto)
either said or did on that occasion. There was one thing
which he said, and that was that the British Government
were desirous of preserving the peace of Italy, and that
no change could be made in the territorial arrangements
ratified by the treaty of VICTIM. On the occasion of
Charles Albert entering Lombardy, there was no person
more against that line of proceeding than himself. lie
at that time saw that there was considerable danger for
the peace and security of Italy, and he felt deeply anxious
to avert it as much as possible; yet it could not be said
that he by any word or act, sanctioned the expulsion of
the Austrians from Italy.
Lord BROUGHAM said that that if the Noble Earl
(Earl Minto) wished to keep Italy free, he could not
congratulate him, when 25,000 French soldiers
were now in the centre of Italy. lie recollected
how the Ministry with which he had the honour to be
connected were attacked when the French mitt red An-
cone, and thought such should serve as a guide to the
future conduct and policy of the British Government.
question as a Drat important
He looked upon the present