The Sun.
London, England, 1822-03-05 00:00:00

AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.

Colonel LYGON presented a petition from the County of
Worcester, complaining of Agricultural Distress, and praying
for Parliamentary Reform.
Mr. CURWEN •moved for Returns of the Amount. of
Importations of Cheese and Butter during the last year.—
Ordered.

CRIMINAL CODE.
Mr. DICKENSON presented a petition from the Inhabi-
tants of rroine Selwood, praying for a revision of the Crimi-
nal Code.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. lIIJME moved for a Return of the number of Reert;its
enlisted' in the Army, in the years 1816; 1817, 1818, 1819,
1820, and 1821...--Ordered. '

Mr: HUME gave notice of a motion for Tuesday, the
19th of March, relative to the expence of retaining the lonian
Isles. •

' PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.
Mr. NABERLY seeing the Hon. Secretary for the Trea-
sury in his place, and having observed the difference between
the public accounts delivered to the House last year, and those
in the statement made •by the Noble Marquis opposite, a few
days age, wished to move for returns of accounts to explain
that difference before lie made his motion on the subject, on the
12th of March next. He moved for an account showing how
the difference arose upon the Excise and Custom Duties in the
public accounts of 11121, and those signed " C. Arbuthnot,"
laid before the House in Feb. 1822. ' The Hon. Member also
moved for a series of other accounts, upon each head of the
public accounts, where there was a difference between the two
statements.

Mr. LUSHINGTON observed, that he had never seen a
motion of such a nature brought 'on in the manner in which the
present one had been. Never having seen the papers, he was
totally unprepared to speak as to their correctness or otherwise.
He thought it would be better if the Hon. Member gave notice
of his motion for another day.
Mr. BIABERLY thought the motion to be one the most
proper to be granted of all others. He thought he discoyered
great confusion and contradiction in the public accounts, and
the motion would only lead to the, result of having them altered,
or of vindicating their correctness. He might be wrong iri his
conceptions, and the only means for the House to judge for it-
self, would be to put it in poisession of the accounts for which
he had moved. He was open to the censure of the House, if
his statements were incorrect, but he would pledge himself to
shew that he was in the right.
, Mr- LUSHINGTON thought it contrary to the practice of
the House to grant papers of such a nature upon a motion of
which no notice had been given.

Mr. PETER • .MORE thought the papers ought to be
granted.
Mr. S. BOURNE said, that the papers for which the Hon.
Member had moved, were so very numerous and so very com-
plicated, and went to assume various - facts of so important a
nature, that he, as an individual member of the House, could
not assent to them upon the simple motion of the lion. Gen-
tleman, made without any previous, notice. He thought the
better way would be to-move for the papers which the Hon.
Gentleman stated to be at variance, and they would speak for
themselves. If-that were done, he thought there could be no
objection ; but it was hardly fair to expect, that Gentlemen of
the Treasury could, without any previous notice, be prepared to
assent to the present motion.
Mr. MABERLY intimated, that he had' no objection 'to this
course, provided that the returns of the two statements should
be shaped to explain the difference between them.
After fi few observations from Mr. Lushington, Mr. C.
Wynn, Mr. Hum; and Mr. Moberly, the motion waswith-
thawn.

Mr. CANNING presented a Petition from certain Merchants
of Liverpool, relating to the laws for regulating the Importa-
tion of Foreign Corn, which he moved should be referred to the
Agricultural Committee.
Mr. HUME had expected that the Right Hon. Gentleman
would have made some observations upon the contents of the
Petition, to enforce as much as possible the prayer of his con-
stituents. The Hon. Member then made some remarks upon
the subjects embraced by the Petition.
Mr. CANNING begged to express his thanks to the Hon.
Gentlernan, for having expounded the contents of the Petition-

so much more ably than he could have done. But as the Peti-
tioners themselves had not alluded to any specific measures,
and as he knew it to be their desire that the Petition should be
referred to the Agricultural Committee, he had contented him-
self with simply moving to that effect. When the subject
which now occupied that Committee should become matter of
discussion for the House, he begged to assure the Hon. Mem:
ber that he should neither be wanting in his duty to his consti-
tuents, nor to the community at large.—(Hear, hear !)
MALT TAX.

Mr. GOOCH wished to ask his Right Hon. Friend opposite
(a laugh, the Hon. Member being on the Opposition side) a
question upon an important subject. He wished to know whe-
ther, since Friday last, he had made any alteration in his inten-
tions with regard to the period at which the duty of a shilling a
bushel upon malt was to expire; whether he intended that it
should be taken off sooner than the period he had named, and
whether any allowance was to be made for the stock of Malt on
hand.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it would
be in the recollection of the House, that, according to its reso-
lution, the tax would expire on the 66 of July next. After
much consideration and inquiry, however, he found that the
drawbacks which he had proposed would not be so satisfactory
as he had wished and anticipated. lie should therefore pro.
pose, that instead of the sth of July next, the duties Should
cease from the 26th of February last, the day on which the
I-louse came to the resolution.of repesling them. With respect
to the stock in hand, we understood. ilk Right Hon. Gentleman
t 6 say, that as relief would be given more effectively through
the consumer than the manufacturer, there could be no allow-
ance made. The duties which hadalready been paid, since the
period now fixed upon, to be returned as they were levied
when the tax was imposed in 1819, namely, by instalments.—
These would commence on the sth of July next, and the whole
to be repaid in four quarterly instalments.
In answer to questions from Mr. BENETT (of Wiltshire),
Mr. ELLICE, and angther Hon. Member, which we could not
distinctly catch from the conversational manner in which they
were put, we understood the Right Hon. Gentleman to say,
that whatever description of stock in hand had been subjected
to the duties when they were imposed in 1819, would now have
the benefit of the drawback.

In answer to a question from Mr. S. WORTLEY,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that a
great part of the duty which had been charged since the period
at which he now proposed that it should cease, had not yet
been paid ; that which had been paid, would be repaid by in-
stalments, under the regulation he had stated.
Mr. WODEHOUSE made a remark, which was inaudible
in the Gallery.
Mr. G. BENNETT complained, that the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman came down to the House with ill-advised and ill-consi-
dered plans, which he afterwards abandoned to the loss of cer-
tain classes of the community. In the present case, those who
had sold barley since the announcement of the first plan, had
suffered much from the deterioration of prices.
Mr. JONES gave notice of a motion relative to the compa-
rative advantage of repealing the Malt Tax or the Salt Tax, for
Friday next.
Lord A.IIIAMILTON postponed his Motion, which stood
for the 20th of this month, to the 28th.

MR. HUNT.
Al lerman WOOD, in presenting a Petition from Mr. Hunt,
complaining of his treatment in Ilchester Jail, wished to call
the attention of the House to some of the fresh cruelties which
had been exercised towards him, since the subject was last
before the House. He had received a letter from that individual
which stated that on Thursday last, Dr. Colston, one of the
visiting Magistrates, attended by Mr. Newman, came to see
him, and discovered in his room a small door leading into a
small yard, described by the Commissioners, which admitted
the air in the room. This door had been left open by Mr.
Hardy since the dismissal of Bridle. The Magistrates had now
ordered the door to be shut. In consequence of the confined
state of the apartment he was become nearly blind of one eye.
His surgeon and the surgeon of the jail had found it necessary
to perform the painful operation of removing a humour from
the inside of his right eyelid. His son, and his ward, Miss Jane
Gray, almost in a state of desperation at the state to which he
was reduced, presented themselves at the gaol, begging permis-
sion to be present while the operation was performed. Mr.
Hardy told them, that he dared not admit them if the prisoner
were dying. The Surgeons ordered hot fomentations to his
eye during the night, and it was necessary that a nurse should
remain with him. No woman was allowed to perform that
office but a convict ; and when the Surgeon proposed that his
son should remain with him, it was denied. He was conse-
quently left alone at six o'clock, the door was locked, and he
remained in that state till five the next morning, without a soul
with him, being nearly blind and suffering the most intolerable
pain. The worthy Alderman thought the House would not
suffer such cruelties to be continued without interposing to stop
their progress. He wished the Right Hon. Secretary of State
had been in his place, for lie did hope that the remaining five
months of this individual's imprisonment would not be enforced.
It was his duty to state, that he had been informed of the She-
riff's having sent down orders on Saturday last to remove the
hardships of which the petitioner complained. He hoped, there-
fore, that there would be no further cause of complaint against
the Magistrates.
Mr. -DICKENSON denied that the Magistrates could be
influenced by any malicious motives in their treatment of this
prisoner. With regard to the door in question, he had no re-
collection of it, and this was the first time he had heard of the
operation which Mr. Hunt had undergone. He had the satis-
faction to state, that the Sheriff had sent orders to have the pri-
soner placed in the same situation as when he first entered the
jail, before the restrictions were imposed.
Mr. G. BENNETT spoke in support of the Petition.
Mr. HOBHOUSE expressed a hope that Mr. Ilunt would
be removed-to some other prison for the remainder of his sen-
tence. It was stated at first that he was sent there as a matter
of favour.

Mr. SCARLETT explained that when Mr. Hunt was sen-
tenced, the jail of Ilchester was supposed to be one of the best
regulated prisons in the kingdom.
Mr. C. WYNNE thought there was no power or prerogative
of the Crown for removing a prisoner with the object of amelio-
rating his sentence. If so, there must also be a power of ag-
gravating it.
Mr. DENMAN knew there was no power in the Crown to
alter the sentence, but it might be commuted by consent, as
had been done in several cases.
Mr. LQCKHART thought it the duty of the Worthy Alder-
man, after having such a petition put into his hands, to give
notice of a specific mo►ion upon the subject.
'Dr. LUSH INGTON thought the Magistrates, in their treat-
ment of Mr. Hunt, had acted under a misconception of the
power entrusted to their hands.. They found themselves in a
difficulty with regard to him, and the remedy they applied was
worse than the difficulty itself. They framed certain roles ac-
cording to the directions of the Acts of Parliament, got them
signed by the Judges, and thereby tied up their own hands, so
that they could afterwards exercise no discretion. He depre-
cated Magistrates thus giving up the power which they ought
t 9 retain, and he trusted that the Magistrates of Somersetshire
would set tilemseives right by ling before the Judges an-
other set of rules which would leave them the free use of dis-
cretionary power.
Mr. Alderman HEYGATE could neither think it was
the intention of Government, nor of so respectable a body
of men as the Magistrates of the County of Somerset, to ag-
gravate the sentence of the law passed upon any prisoner what=
ever.

The petition was laid on the table.
Dr. LUSH INGTON presented a similar petition from the
Borough of Ilchester.
Sir I. COFFIN supported the prayer. of his Constituents,
upon the principle of olr. Hunt-having been treated unjustly
and illegally. All the constituents in England should not
make him support a petition unless he thought it was founded
in fact.

The petition was laid on the table.
Sir R. WILSON presented a similar petition from'Eccles.—
Lsid on the table.
IRISH TITHES.
•
. .

Sir J. NEWPORT presented a • petition from Waterford,
praying that the House would take the Tithe System into con-
sideration. They mainly attributed to that system the present
disturbances in Ireland, and the unhappy state in which that
country was plunged. Many of the petitioners would be
sufferers by the granting of • what they so disinterestedly
asked. They prayed that, above all, the labourers might be
enabled to till' potatoe lands at a lower rate. The Clergy in
many cases did not receive what the Laity actually paid.—
He recollected an instance wherein a tithe proctor had de-
manded thirty pounds of a farmer, although the clergyman,
on being applied to, admitted that the sum due was but eleven
pounds, and for which he offered to give a full discharge. He

hoped the House would take the system into serious consi-
deration.

Mr. GOULBURN said, that as he was quite unaware of
the petition Until he had heard the Right Honourable Baronet,
he was unprepared to meet the statement or the grievance
complained of. He could however assure the Hoes: that the
question of tithes was under the consideration of the Irish GO-
vernment, and that, if possible, a measure would be proposed
for remedying the evils arising out of the system. The Com-
missioners now inquiring into the Administration of Justice in
Ireland had been recommended to direct their attention to the
practice of the Ecclesiastical Courts, with respect to suits for the
recovery of tithes.—(Hear, hear !)
Mr. ELLICE 'was happy to hear that Government intended
to briug the subject forward on their own responsibility, in the
shape of a specific measure. This was much preferable to any
reference to a Committee.

Mr. GOULBURN explained. He had merely said that the
subject was under consideration,with a view to a remedy, if pos-
sible.
Mr. NEWMAN said, he trusted that any remedy for the
evil would be extended to England, in which he thought it was
much wanted.

Mr. HUME concurred in opinion with the last Speaker, and
wished to ask the Noble Marquis opposite, whether the subject
of English Tithes was under the consideration of Government
—(No answer was given.)
Sir JOHN NEWPORT was aware that the subject was
under the consideration of Government. He had received the
petition only that morning, and as the existence of the evil com-
plained of was undisputed, he had thought it his duty to pre,
sent it.

After a few words from Mr. Goin.nuitx,
Lord EBRINGTON referred to the circumstance of no an-
swer having been given by the Noble Marquis to the question
of the Member for Aberdeen. He trusted the Noble Mar-
quis would answer the question, as the subject of it was of
.ge-
neral interest

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he was not prepar-
ed to answer the question, because he conceived these subjects
should be brought forward by a regular motion. lie was not
aware that any measure was in the contemplation of Government
upon the subject alluded to.

The petition was then ordered to be printed.
Lord EBRINGTON presented a Petition from certain
owners and occupiers of land in Devonshire, complaining of
Agricultural Distress, snd attributing that distress to exces-
sive taxation, rather than superabundant produce. They
prayed for a reduction of Taxes, and for a reduction of Sine-
cures.--After a few words from the Noble Lord in support of
the petition
Mr. NEWMAN confirmed the statement of the Petitioners
respecting the fact of their distress. In some parts of the
county a sheep now sold for Ils. which formerly would have
brought 30s. and the distress in all other respects_ corresponded
with this instance. He thought a reduction of taxes would be
the only remedy, and he thought the sense of the House had
been fairly expressed the other night on the question for re-
pealing the Salt Tax.
The Petition was then ordered to be printed.
Mr. ELLICE presented a Petition from an individual named
Jones, the proprietor of a considerable sum in the Navy Five
per Cents. praying for an extension of the time limited for the
holders of that stock to express their dissent from, the measure
now in it.: progress through the House, respecting that Stock.
The Hon. Member wished to know from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether he would consent to a reprint of the Bill,
in order to give time for its consideration ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
no objection to the bringing up of the Petition, but he thought
it was desirable that the measure in question should proceed
without any delay. There would no doubt be cases of diffi-
culty, in consequence of the operation of the Bill ; but these
might-be remedied by a separate measure.
Mr. TIERNEY thought they might be considered on the
bringing up of the Report. He wished to know what day the
Right Hon. Gentleman intended to propose for the considera-
tion of the Report ?
The 'CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered,
" Thursday next."
Mr. GRENFELL wished to know from the Right Hon.
Gentleman whether any arrangement had been made with the
Bank respecting the remuneration to be paid them for the la-
bour of carrying this Bill into effect. An arrangement had
been made during the war, by which the Bank received 8,0001.
upon every million of loan, and he understood the profits of the
Bank on this head alone had amounted to 400,0001. The sum
under the present Bill to be disposed of was 150 millions, and
he hoped, therefore, nothing in the shape of a per tentage
would be thought of.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said no ar-
rangement had as yet been made. In fact much would depend
upon the number of persons who dissented from the measure.
But of course a public body like the Bank could not be called
upon to carry such a measure into effect without receiving
some remuneration.

Mr. GRENFELL perfectly agreed in the last.observation
of the Right Hon. Gentleman ; but he hoped that in making
the arrangement, some regard would be had to the large pro-
fits which the Bank were already receiving from the
They had last year received as much as 270,0001. for making
transfers and paying dividends. Independent of this they had
always on band an average balance of four millions of the pub-
lic money, for which a service was performed so very inadequate
to the interest of this money, that he was confident it might be
safely arid would be gratefully performed by private Bankers
for 10,0001. a year.

Sir ROBERT WILSON wished to put a question to the
Noble Marquis opposite. He wished to know whether Go-
vernment had, within these few days, received any advices
tending to increase or diminish the hope held out in his Ma-
jesty's speech of an amicable adjustment between Russia and
the Ottoman Porte, of their present differences.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, the tendency of
the question was to have an effect upon the money market.
He should only say that much alarm had gone abroad for which
there was no reasonable cause.

Sir It. WILSON said he asked the question because he was
the trustee of a considerable sum in the stock in question. He
had no wish to create any alarm.
Mr. ELLICE trusted time would be given for the circulation
of the Bill through the country, as many legal difficUlties might
otherwise arise as to its construction.

An HON. MEMBER, whose name could not be learned, ex-
pressed "a hope that at all events the Bill would be printed by
Wednesday.
-Mr. HUME thought some notice ought to be taken of the
observat;ors of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Grenfell). The price
paid by the public for the services of the Bank appeared to be
very unreasonable, especially when it was considered that the
Bank of Ireland performed the services required by them with-
out any remuneration.

The Petition was then ordered to be printed.
POOR LAWS.

Mr. SCARLETT gave notice that, on the 30th instant, he
should bring forward a measure for the regulation of the Poor
Laws, a measure, however, which he should, notpress if his
*Majesty's Ministers persisted. in their avowedintention of
lending fouimillions to the' several ,T)arishes, because such a
measure would, he thought,, render his own inoperative. He
concluded, however, that as nothing had been proposed on the
subject of that SLoan, since he last noticed it, that there was no
intention to carry it on.
The Mar9uis of LONDONDERRY said, he could not
continue to give the Honourable and Learned Member encou-
ragement by his silence; and the Honourable and Learn-
ed Member would forgive him for observing that he had not
drawn,a very correct inference from the circumstance he had
Mentioned.