The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL Pint. I XMENT.

HOUSE OP LORDS, Jute- 13.
TITHES IN IRELAND.
The Bishop of FERNS rose to present a petition from
certain beneficed clergymen in the dist; ict of Grange, in
Lel ind, which had been lately disturbed by disputes about
tithes, an I lie begged in the first instance to move that the
ictition should be read at length.
The petition was accordingly read by tie Clerk. It
complained that there existed in that pert of Ireland a sys-
tematic opposition to the payment of tithes, and that it
was impossible for the incumbents to collect them without
having recourse to the aid of the coesiabohary or military
power.
The RIGHT REV. PRELATE then proceeded to observe,
that previous to moving that the petition should 1;e upon
the table, be wished to a Idress a few words to their Lord-
ships upon the subject to which the petition referred. Ile
was the more anxious to do so, because the petitioners
complained of the evils to which they drew the attention
of their Lordships upon no slight ground, and because
calumnies had of late been heaped in profusion upon the
Clergy of the Irish Established Church by all these who
hated the religion which they taught, or who envied the
advantages which they enjoyed, or who were desirous to
effect the destruction of the Constitutien of which that
ehuich formed an immortal part.—(A laugh.) He was
anxious, under such circumstances, to state a few facts in
reply to the calumnious attacks made upon that establish-
ment. In a Recent publication of a Rumen Catholic
Bishop, entitled, " Letters recommending the Introduc-
tion of Provision for the Pear into that Country,"
the meet calumnious attacks had been made upor,
the Irish Clergy.. Ile (the Bishop of Ferns) should
not dwell mitten the extraordinary daring which was ma-
eiFested b'. addressing to a 31ernlier of his Majesty's
Goreeettnent letters in which a disobedience to the haw,
Ansi tt hatred towards that provision given by the law to
the clergy, were recommended to the Irish people, nd in
a hope was expressed that resistance would be made
to every law, civil or ecclesiastical, which should he
brought forward in support of that provision for the Irish
clergy,. The first calumny which this publication con-
tained on the clergy of 'eel ind was, that they were gene-
tally non-resident. Now, would it he believed by their
Loteishipe that in the county of Carlow, under the iimnee
4Viiete eye of Bishop Doyle, the author of this publication,
there was only one incumbent who had duty to perform,
non-resident, and the cause of his non-residence arose
&nen the cirentnstance of his neither having a glebe nor
'env grionnil to build upon. Teat incumbent had further
serri:lseavoured to get a house within the distance from the
Vrish church regulated by law, but he was unable to ob-
tain one. There were 22 beneficed clergymen in that
county, and there was only amongst that number one
men-resident who had any duty to perform. There were
two 'other parishes where there were no churches, and
ebetetfore where the incumbent if resident would rot have
ett7 duty to discharge. The facts were as he (the Bishop
of Ferns) had stated, and they were as well known to Dr.
Doyle as they were to him. Dr. Doyle next proceeded, in
the publication he had mentioned, to state, that the provi-
sion allotted for the maintenance of the Irish Established
Church was immense and extravagant. It was unneces-
sary far him (the Bishop of Ferns) to go into a refuta-
tion of that statement nom. The evidence of Baron
Foster, which was on their Lordships' talc—of an
individual intimately acquainted with the details of the
subject, and not ineined to represent that property
as less than it really was—would at once show that
the statement of Bishop Doyle was (pits; unfounded.
Bishop Doyle represented the parish es in Ireland as being
worth from 5,0001. to 4,0001. 3,000/. and 2,0001. each,
in many instances. Now he (the Bishop of Ferns) be-
lieved that there was not ne parish in Leland which
al-ogether afforded to the incumbent 3.000/. a-year, and
he knew that the average amount yielded by parishes was
greatly below that. In Carlow, which was a highly cul•
tivated county, the average amount derived by an incum-
bent from a parish was 350/. a-year, as was apparent
from the returns under the Tithe Composition Act. There
had been disturbances in the district from which this peti-
tion proceeded, through the opposition which had been
offered to the payment of tithes. These disturbances had
taken place in the parish helot by the Rev. Mr. Allcock,
who had been incumbent there fur 20 years, who had
constantly resided in his parish during that time, and who
hid exerted himself absolutely to court the favour of his
Catholic parishioners. When he became the incumbent of
tie parish in question, he had resigned 2001. a-year out
of the total amount which the proceeds of the parish had
averaged ; and the fact was, that this avaricious rector re-
ceived from his parishioners not more than about 7d. per
acre. Was that too much for him ?—(Hear.) He (the
Bishop of Ferns), after he had presented this petition,
should certainly move for a return of the parishes in Ire-
land which had compounded for their tithes, specifying the
number of acres in each parish. When that return was
upon their Lordships' table, they would be able to refer to
it when any missstaternent was made with respect to the
amount of the revenues receivi d by the established clergy in
Ireland. Ile wished he could point out an efficient remedy for
the evils of which the commissioner complained. It was
easy to describe the multiplied and vexatious obstructions
thrown in the way of the collection of tithes, but it wee
not so easy to remove them. It was even a hazardous
thing at present to send a person to view a parish which
had not compounded, not to speak of the danger of at-
tempting to collect the tithes there. Not only was that
the case, but even in parishes where the Composition Act
had been introduced, the recovery of the tithe was pre-
vented, for no man would venture to serve a process there
when the serving of it was menaced with the penalty of
death by persons who never menaced in vain. It ap-
peared to him that the recovery of the tithe under such
circumstances might be made an additional duty on the
part of the police. The tithe should be considered as rent
in such instances, and if the opposition to the payment of
tithe-rent in those places should be successful, it did not
require much sagacity to foresee that opposition would be
made in the next instance to the payment of the rent itself.
The Right Rev. Prelate then moved that the petition should
lie on the table, which was agreed to.
He was proceeding to move fer the return which he had
already mentioned, when it being suggested to hint by
Lord MELBOURNE that it would be more regular to give
notice of the motion for to-morrow, he accordingly did so.
The Earl of DARNLEY presented a petition from the
High Sheriff, gentry, and ineholders, of the county of
Meath, in favour of the Reform Bill.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition
from the Protestant inhabitants of the pariah of Nun's-
island, in Galway, in favour of the Galway Franchise Bill.
NEWTOWNBARRY AFFAIR.
Lord FARNHAM, in rising to bring forward the pre-
sent motion, felt considerably embarraes•d. He felt that
premature discussions cn subjects of this nature, before the
legal investigation which they must necessarily undergo
had been brought to a conclusion, were attended with
great inconvenience. Entertaining as he did those senti-
ments, he should never have thought of bringing this mat-
ter under the consideration of their Lordships at the pre-
sent juncture, if the same line of conduct had been
adopted by every one else, and if it had not been endea-
voured by one party to pre-occupy the public mind, to
interrupt the stream of justice, and to heap the foulest ca-
lumnies on persons concerned in this unfortunate affair, by
the publication of the meet scandalous libels and flagitious
mi -statements that had ever disgraced the Press of any
country. But even the publication of such calumnies and
misrepresentations would scarcely have induced him to take
the step which he was now about to take, bad they not
gained additional weight from observations made in ano-
ther place, to which he did not deem it expedient to refer
more particularly, where the grossest misrepresentation
of the facts of the case had been promulgated, and
where the phrases " indiscriminate slaughter," " mas-
sacre," and other opprobious terms, had been applied
towards the acts of individuals, whose .conduct had as
yet to undergo a judicial investigation.—(Hear, hear.)
It was under such circumstances that he felt it necessary
to call on their Lordships to agree to the motion which
he was about to make. for the presentation of an address
to his Majesty, praying hie Majesty that he would he
graciously pleased to order the production of certain papers
which would throw
he wan sincerely owa proper light upon this unfortunate
transaction, and which
hi l
convinced would
establish the correctness of the view y w ie( (Lord
Farnham) had taken of it. So gross had been rho
mis-
representations sent abroad of this transaction, that in
many of the provincial towns of England handbills had
been circulated, with descriptive figures in them, contain-
ing the most exaggerated account of the affray at New-
townbarry. He held in his hand sue which had been dis-
tributed in Wolverhampton and Birmingham, which spoke
of " the dreadful slaughter at Newtownb my," and which
gave the most libellous and abominable description that it
was possible to give of the whole occurrence. Their
Lordslaips Would recollect that early in the last session of
Parliameot, he (Lord Farnham) had called their Lord-
ships' attention pretty much to the subject which his Right
Reverend Friend had pressed upon their consideration that
night. He had upon that occasion called their Lordships'
attention to many disturbances connected with the collec-
tion of tithes which bad taken place in the parish of
Graigue, in the county of Kilkenny'. lie at that time
took occasion to state that be was firmly convinced, and
what had since occurred had confirmed him in that opt-

niun, that a s)stemitic conspiracy had been formed in that
pert of Ireland to oppose the payment of tithes, and he
mentioned the names of those whom he considered as
foremost in organizing that conspiracy. At the head of
that conspiracy he hid placed that Rev. Prelate, to whom
his flight Rev. Friend had alluded that evening, end who
hail lately addressed a letter to Mr. S. Rice, the Secretary
to the Treasury, urging the necessity of an establishment
of a provision for the poor of Ireland. Ile would take the
liberty of reading to them a pawege from that letter to
which his Right Rev. Friend had referred, end he trusted
that their Lordships, on hearing it, would he of opinion
that any thing less likely to allay the excitement which
existed in Ireland against tithes could not be composed than
the passage in question. Talking of the Irish nation in
this letter, Bishop Doyle remarked—" The Irish people,
since their first conversion to the Christian fiith, always
understood rightly the Gospel dicensation. They were
11Ways too rational, and too acute, to sul‘init wihingly to
an unreasonable, I might add an unjust imposition, and the
law of tithe, whether civil or eccleeiestical, has never had
—tither in Catholic or Protestant times, no, not to the
present hour—the assent or consent of the Irish nation.
They have always been at war with it, and I trust in God
they will never cheerfully submit to it." Truly, the Irish
people had been at war with it, and this letter was well
calculated to encourage them in keeping up that war. The
Doctor went on to say—" There are many noble traits in
the Irish character, mixed with failings which have always
raised obstacles to their own well-being ; but an innate
!eve of justice, and an indomitable hatred of oppression, is
like a gem upon the ft ont of our nation, which no dark-
ness ran obscure. To this fine quality I trace their hatred
of tithe. May it be as lasting as their love of justice !"
He (Lord Farnham) must say, that he could not avoid
expressing the indignation which he felt at finding a person
filling the situation which Dr. Doyle did, sitting down
in his study and coolly disseminating, through the means
of this pamphlet, such sentiments as these throughout Ire-
loid,—sentiments which were calculated to effect so much
mischief. He did in his conscience believe, that to hint
and to his writing, in a great degree, the state of Ireland
with regard to tithes was to be attributed, and he did
think that Dr. Doyle was morally responsible inr the
blood shed in the late unfortunate affair in Newtownbarry.
Their Lordships would recollect that, in the former session,
he (Lord Farnham) alluded to the conduct of an individual
of the same name as Dr. Doyle. He was then informed
that he was mistaken in supposing that that Rev. Gentle-
man was a near relative of Dr. Doyle, and that he was
only a distant relation of hie. That Rev. Gentleman
lied resided in the parish of Clonegal, which adjoined
that of Newtownbarry, for several years, and he (Lord
Farnham) was aware that he had been in the habit if ex-
citing the people there against tithes. He would assert
that one of the chief conspirators in the conspiracy excited
in Ireland against tithes, was the eelebtated person from
whose letter he had just read an extract to their Lordships.
A singular consideration here arose. He had been told—
at least the fact had been stated on newspeper authority—
that this Rev. Prelate had been made a Magistrate of the
county of Carlow. _ .

Lord PLUNKETT nodded dissent from the statement.
Lord FARNHAM said the fact might not be so,—he
enly spoke from public report.
Lord PLUNKETT said, that if the Noble Lor d meant
to say that Dr. Doyle had been made a Magistrate, he (Lord
Plunkett) had no recollection of any such thing having
taken place ; if it bad taken place, it was very unlikely
that 100 should have forgotten such a circumstance with
regard to so remarkable a pea son, and he had every reason
to think that such was not the case. Indeed, it was quite
impossible that it could lie the case.
Lord FARNHAM now came to the subject which he
wished to bring more immediately under the considera-
tion of their Lordships. No person could lament more
deeply than he did the unfortunate result of what had
taken place in Newtownbarry, where he supposed that
from fifteen to twenty liven bad been sacrificed,as he
thought it would appear, unavoidably, in consequence of
the resistance of the people to the payment of tithes. The
Right Rev. Prelate had correctly stated that the parish of
Newtownbarry was under the operation of the Tithe Com-
position Act, and the incumbent could therefore recover
his tithes there by distress, which enabled him to recover
them in as full and ample a manner as any of their Lord-
ships could recover their rents. With regard to the Rev.
Gentleman who was the incumbent of the parish, as he
bad been most unjustly attacked, he wished to say a few
words in his defence. It had been said in another place
thet this Rev. Gentleman had been at variance with his
parishioners. Now he had resided in the parish for the
last twenty-four years, and tap to the present moment he
had not had the slightest difference with hie parishionar4.
lie had, in fact, lived upon terms of the greatest 11:u--
mony with them until this conspiracy against the pay-
ment of tithes had been got up in Ireland. He was one
of the most pious and exemplary Clergymen in the
diocese in which his parish was situated. He had
lately been appointed to the care of an additional
parish in the neighbourhood of Newtownharry, and
though the income from both the parishes, if lie could
recover it, would have been considerable, this Clergy-
man, with a family of nine or ten children, to his (Lord
Farnham's) knowledge, would have been in absolute want
if his (Lord Farnham's) steward hail not allowed him to
take some of the sheep of his flock without payment.
Was such a thing as that to be tolerated in a land where
law existed, and where it should be respected ? In the in-
stance out of which this melancholy transaction had arisen,
this Rev. Gentleman had levied a distress for tithes due to
him. Cattle were seized for that purpose,. and in making
the distress the Rev. Gentleman did not go to a poor man,
but lie went to a rich man, who could as easily pay the
demand as any of their Lordships. The cattle being
bailed out, the day of sale was fixed for the ISth of June
lest. The day preceding. namely, the 17th, was the far
d ay of Newtownbarry. He would here read to their
Lordships a copy of a placard, which was printed in very
large type, and carried about on a board, so that every one
could see it, in the fair of Newtownbarry, and which had
been distributed in every town, village, and hamlet within
twenty :elks of that place. This placard was headed with
the ominous words—" Reform ! The Church in danger ! !"
and it was couched in the following terms :—" The Go-
vernment have sent circular letters to all the incumbents
io Ireland, requiring them forthwith to furnish the lowest
accounts of all their incomes, with a view in (realer, in future,
to pay them out of the Treasury. Inhabitants of the parish
of St. Mary Newtownbarry, there will be an end to church
plunder ! your pot, blanket, and pig, will not be here-
after sold by auction, to support in luxury, idleness, and
ease, persons who endeavour to make it appear that it
is essential to the peace and prosperity of the country,
and your eternal salvation, while the most of you are
starving ! Attend to an auction of your neighbour's
cattle, on Saturday next, the 18th inst., seized for tithe,
by the Rev. Alexander M'Clintock." That placard was
carried through the fair by a boy, who was paid Is. for
carrying it by the son of the nian whose cattle load been
seized. It was printed in Dublin. He (Lord Farnham)
knew the printer who printed it, and he knew the person
at whose solicitation it had been printed. Any thing
more calculated to create a riot could not have been pro-
mulgated. What did the Magistrates do ? They imme-
diately took precautions to assert the dignity of the law.
They sent letters to the captains of the different yeomanry
corps in the neighbourhood to attend, and they also called
on the police to attend the sale next day, in order to assist
the civil power. One of those Magistrates had been
groas'y calumniated, anal his whole conduct vilely at-
tacked—he meant Captain Graham. That gentleman
possessed property in several counties in Ireland ; he had
served in the Peninsula; he had shed his blood in the
cause of his country, and he was distinguished for a most
humane and benevolent disposition. Another of the Ma-
gistrates who acted on that occasion had resided in the
neighbourhood for 25 years. He was aware of the dis-
position of the people, and, apprehending a riot, he saw '
it was absolutely necessary to call in a military force. The
force which was called in consisted of about 150 yeomen
and about 40 police. In order that the yeomanry should
not come into unnecessary collision with the people,
they were placed in an enclosed yard, not to be called
out uuless the police force should be found insufficient
to prevent the apprehended riot and to enforce the exe-
cution of the law. The cattle were brought from
the pound into Newtownbarry to be sold, and it appeared,
that while in the custody of the bailiff, for the purpose of
being sold, they were rescued from him. The police
being sent after them, took them and replaced them in the
pound, when they were surrounded on all sides by a multi-
tude of more than 2,000 1 ersons. The magistrates, ap-
prehensive that the police would be overpowered, directed
that the yeomanry should be called out and sent to the
pound, which was about a quarter or half a mile from
Newtownbarry, in order to bring the cattle into the town
to be sold. The yeomanryhavingaccordinadv come down,
yeomanrytwl etr ec atot n
tiwere
marchedbmroa br
in ought t
they
ee outy rear.,avn ri
e placed
aassailed
While
wti front,i,teh
esaohr
yeomanry
were
ch
of stones and missiles of every description. In return,
they merely kept off the crowd with their bayonets.
When they got near the town with the cattle, a rush wes
made on them, and shots were fired upon them. A ye
man was killed, and the son of a yeoman was shot also o:
'
several of the yeomen were wounded, and several were
knocked down by the stones which were thrown at them.
The yeomanry certainly did then tire, and it would appear
from ;the evidence given at the coroner'e inquest, that the

tiring on their part did not continue for more than t.t.o or
three minu'es. They therefore fired in their own defence,
and the firing only lasted as long as the danger continued.
The LORD CHANCELLOR put it to the Noble
Lord whether they, being the highest court of judicature,
might thus prematurely and prejudicially to occupy them-
selves with the merits of a case which the law had con-
rigned to ether tribunals?—(Hear, her.) He put it to
the Noble Lord whether, because the Newspapers had
t!,,ought proper to embark in a discussion upon this affair,
that was any reason why the House of Lords should an-
ticipate the course of the common law ?—(Hear, hear.)
He thought the good sense of the Noble Lord would lead
him to perceive the inconvenience and the impropriety of
that House pronouncing an opinion upon 's case which
was abaft to he brought before a b•gal tribunal, arid
thereby incur the imputation of interfering with the fair
• and even course of justice.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord FARNHAM readily agreed that it would be most
improper for him to go into any facts which were likely to
become the subject of investigation before a criminal tri-
hunal—(Hear, hear)—and in the few observations, there-
fore, which be had now to trouble their Lordships with,
lie should carfully abstain from touching upon any such
facts.—(llear, hear,) Let their Lordships consider what
hail been the conduct of the Magistracy. He thought
that there could be no doubt that the Magistracy had,
under the circumstances that he had stated, exercised a
sound discretion in assembling a force sufficient to main-
tain the peace. A Magistrate was entitled to call both
the civil and the military power to his assistance, and
whether, therefore, the yeomanry was to be denominated
a civil or a military force, the Magistrate was elect ly en-
titled to call them cut to assist him in the preservation of
the peace. This power was given to Magistrates in Ire-
land by the 3d of Geo. 111., c. 98, which Aet also em-
powered a Magistrate as well to take rioters into custody
as to disperse a riotous assembly. The Magistrates, there-
f•re, had a right to call out the yeomanry, and the
yeomanry hail a right to obey the orders of the Ma-
eistrates. He would conclude, therefore, by moving,
" That an address be presented to his Majesty for a copy
of the evidence taken before Mr. Green, K.C., who had
been sent by the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland to inquire
into the affray which had taken place at Newtownbarry
on the I Sth of June last. Also for a copy of the report
id the Chief Constable of Police, and of the. Inept etor
General, respecting the occurrences of that day."

Viscount MELBOURNE, in the few observations which
he should think it necessary to make to their Lordships in
opposition to this motion, shou'd not enter into any dis-
cnasion of the tithe question, which had been very pro-
petty introduced by a Right Rev. Prelate, because the peti-
tion which the Right Rev. Prelate had presented was upon
that subject, but which he joust be allowed to say the
Noble Baron had no such excuse !or having entered upon.
—(Hear, hear.) Still less should he think himself justi-
fied in entering upon the discussion of the disputes about
tithes at Newtownhairy. Neither should he make a single
oh creation, much less give any opinion, upon the case
which the Noble Baron had laid before their Lordships.
The Noble Baran had expressed a strong confidence that
that case would tarn out to be a; he had opened it to their
Lordships, but surely it would have been wiser in the
Noble Baron to have left their Lordships' knowledge of that
ease to the certain intimation of the law, instead of hurry-
ing their Lordships into this premature, this precipitate,
and, he must add, this dangerous discussion.—(Hear.)
As to the papers for which the Noble Baron had moved—
the first was, the report of a gentleman who had been
sent, in his opinion most properly, by the Lord Lieutenant
to investigate the affair. This r port, however, was
of a confidential nature ; it was framed only for
the information of the Irish Government ; it consisted
of evidence taken before no suthorized tribunal; all
that evidence was voluntary, and had not been given upon
oath. Now he did not mean to say that •iich a case might
not be made out as to call even for the production of a do-
cument of this nature ; but then he was quite sure that
their Lordships would take care that a very strong and
special case should he made out before they sanctioned the
production of such a document.—( Hear, hear.) 'With
respect to the second papa for which the Noble Baton
had moved, that also was a document of a confidential
nature. It was the report of an officer of police, com- •
innnicated confidentially to the Irish Government, and was
necessarily ex parte.—(Hear, hear.)_. lie believed that
that officer of police had conducted himself in the affair
with great prudence. Thus much he had nu hesitation
in saying of that individual ; but then that individual was
engaged in the affray, and might be affected by the ulterior
proceedings.—(Hear, hear.) Such was the nature of the
two documents, and he was sure that Noble Lords would
see, that when the first step of the investigation Was nut
yet completed,—while they were without even the verdict
of a Coroner's jury, nothing could be more improper than
the production of such documents.—(Hear.) The Noble
Baron had referred to discussions and proceedings on this
subject in another place. Now, if their Lordship; would
take the trouble to refer to the Journals of the House of
Commons of the 30th of June, they would find that a
motion for similar papers was made in that House, and
that that motion was withdrawn by leave,—which termi-
nation of the motion was, as their Lordships knew, a
proof that both the mover and the seconder of the motion
had been convinced that it was a motion which ought not
to he granted.—(llear, be Ir.)
Lord FARNHAM, with the permission of their Lord•
ships, would withdraw his motion.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
TITHE BILLS.

The LORD CHANCELLOR intimated to their Lord-
ships that the Earl of Eldon would not be able to atten 1
the House to-morrow, the day for which the discussion of
these Bills had been fixed. He had communicated this
fact by letter to his Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury,
and asked his Grace if he had any objection to postpone
the second reading of his Bill till Monday, seeing how de-
sirable it was that the Noble and Learned Earl (Eldon)
should be present at the discussion. lie had not yet re-
ceived an answer from his Grace, but he Lad no doubt
that his Grace, with his usual courtesy, would allow the
second reading of the Bill to be fixed for Monday, instead
of for to-morrow. He mentioned this in order to save
their Lordships the trouble of coming down to-morr,,w.
Lord DACRE should fix his Bill for what,ver day
might be appointed for the second relding of that of his
Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Shortly afterwards,
The LORD CHANCELLOR informed their Lord-
ships that be had just received a note from the Archbishop
of Canterbury, in which his Grace readily acceded to the
proposal for deferring the second reading of the Bill till
Monday. He would therefore move that the order for to.
morrow be discharged, and that the second reading of his
Grace's Bill and that of Lord Dacre be fixed for Monday.
Agreed to.—Lords to be summoned.