The Sun.
London, England, 1836-06-21 00:00:00

POST-OFFICE.

The Duke cf RICHMOND brought forward this que,tion
now because he felt that if he delayed it until the measure for
the new regulation of the Post-office came before their Lord-
ships, and then moved that the Bill be referred to a Select
Committee, he should lay himself open to the imputation of
wishint to get rid of the measure by a side-wind. He now
gave his Majesty's Ministers the power, before they proceeded
with a measure which he was persuaded would be most preju-
dicial to the best interests of the country, of moving that it be
referred to a Select Committee. If they would do so, and if
before that Select Committee they could prove to him-that it
would not be attended with danger to the manufacturing,
commercial, and agricultural interests of the country, he would
withdraw his opposition. Ever since he first became ac-
quainted with the details of the Post-office he had always held
the opinion that the idea of abolishing the office of Post-
master-general, and appointing Commissioners in his stead,
was wild and visionary. It was due to the public that
they should have some poison at the bead of that department
who responsible for the discharge of the functions int, usted
to him. What said the Commissioners on thi.s point? What
reasons did they assign for the change ? Why they set out by
saying, « We have had under our consideration the general ma-
nagement of the Post-office, and we. feel convinced that it
would be impossible for us to propose any substantive alteration
in the number of clerks, the present mode of conducting the
business, or any of the complicated machinery of the depart-
ment, without in fact placing ourselves in the situation of the
Postmaster-General. The Commissioners, in fact, acknow-
ledged that they were ignorant of the whole details of the es-
tablishment, and because thee were so, they recommended the
destruction of the present, and the substitution of another mode
of management. One of their grounds for recommending the
abolition of the office of .Postmaster-General was, that they ge-
nerally devolved on the secretary. Well, but whose fault was
that? When the Government appointed a Postmaster-General,
let them take a pledge from him that he would discharge the
duties of his office in person, and if he did not, let them do
their duty and recommend his Majesty to discharge a person
who disgraced the office he held. They really were justified
in demanding some evidence on this point. There were 60
pages of evidence -certainly, but of those 60. 40 had been
taken prior to the year 1827, and the whole department was
remodelled in I 830.—( Hear, hear.) In addition to which there
was throughout the whole this singular , inadvertency..-no
one witness was asked his opinion of the proposed change, or
even whether he thought any change necessary; If the
Commissioners could not inquire into the d'.:tails of the
office without putting themselves in the situation of the
Postmaster-General, why at least COIL(' they not have given
the house the Postmaster-
general.'s evidence ?—( Hear, hear )
There was not a word from
,t;im ; there was no knowing from
the Report whether he concurred in the propriety of the pro-
posed changed or not, He submitted that the House had a
right to call for title evidence of the Postmaster-general be-
fore they proceeded farther. The Commissioners recorn=
mended board of two perpetual Commissioners, and one re-
spoltaih/o chief in- Parliament. They then said that all letters
of great importance were to be signed by the whole three. lie
(the Duke of Richmond) did not object to the three Commis-
sioners being forced to sign every letter, but at the same time
he thought it would be just as satisfactory to the public to have
the signature of the Postmaster General. The Commissioners
did not say in what respect the appointment of the Commis-
sioners would benefit the department, but lie could tell his
Noble Friend in one moment how to make the department
The-sorer was this. It ought nut to be considered
so -much in the light of a revenue board, but the Postmaster-
General out to be allowed to spend more money in increasing
the advautages derivable from it. —( Hear, hear.) In the evi-
dence lie had given before the Commissioners, he had told them
that if the rates of postage were reduced, he had no doubt the
revenue of the Post-office would be increased. There were
many other points in which the Postmaster-general might
make a sacrifice with the greatest advantage to the public.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer, however, would not
allow bins tQ do so, because he wanted the money. Was
there any reason to suppose that he would be a whit
more good-natured to the three Commissioners, than
to the Pisstmester-General ?—( Hear, hear.) Supposing the
propOsed Board were constituted, the chief would have to go
out of office with every administration. The Postmaster-
General at least had the power of ordering things to be done,
even supposing he delegated his authority to rho secretary,
which he (the Duke of Richmond) denied, while this new
chief would be under the complete controul oF the two per-
petual Commissioners, from whom he might elways disagree.
They had no authority for this change. The Finance Com-
mittee of 1827 had merely said it was questionable whether
some such Board might not be advantageously constituted,
and the Finance Committee of 1817 was decidedly opposed to
it. He agreed with them that it would be dangerous to re-
model this office without inquiry ; lie contended that there,
was sin ground whatever to justify them in effecting a
of this importance. When he .reminded their Le'
a great machPost-office afF'-'etede every interest,
machine like the ships that
manufacturing, agricultural, and comme:i-
cial, and was inti-
mately connected with the comfo.te, ;ne feelings, and the well-
being or every man in the cotreemety, be need
them to proceed with
not recommend
caution and deliberation. He
gave his Noble
regulation of ' nds notice, that when the B now
ill for the
move tie it :ne Post office reached that House, he should
eat be referred to a Select Committee, wholly dissa-
as he was with the evidence on which it was founded.

Lord D UNCANNON should most certainly oppose any
such motion, even if he stood alone in doing so. Three Com-
missions on the subject had been already appointed, and
he could not help thinking that referring it so a Select Com-
mittee now, would only be in effect postponing any measure
for the re-construction of the Post office for any indefinite
period. After taking the evidence of the Secretary, the Com-
missioners had come to the conclusion that if they had entered
further into the details of-the Post-office, they would have neg-
lected objects of the utmost importance, such as the mail-
coach contracts, the steam-packet establishment, the communi-
cation by letter with other countries, and other points which
they had now under their consideration. For himself he
must say that the opinion he entertained on this subject in
July last was strengthened in a tenfold degree by the evidence
which the Commissioners had appended to their last report.
The evidence given by the Secretary himself, proved that he
was the only person who had discharged the functions of
the Postmaster-General up to to the Noble Duke's time. He
stated that he always exercised his judgment as to the business
which he should lay before the Postmaster-General, and that
during his absence he was the responsible party. His Noble
Friend had said that the chief would change with every
Administration, and would be outvoted by the other Commis--
missioners. He (Lord Duncannon) could only say, that this
was not the case in other boards, similarly constituted, of
which he was a member. The examination before the Com-
missioners had been carried on with the most anxious wish to
obtain every information on the subject. Their Lordships
would perceive by the statement contained in the 6th report,
that every packet on the Holyhead station had been on fire in
the course of the last year_some more than once, and that
there were no means for extinguishing the fire. On the whole,
he felt that their Lordships would consider it to be 'most un-
wise to postpone any legislative measure on this subject by
the intervention of a Committee of inquiry.
The Duke of RICHMOND wished to ask his Noble Friend
whether he did not know that at this moment the packets
were transferred to the Admiralty ?—(" No," from Lord Dun-
cannon.) Did not his Noble Friend know that it might be
done without a Bill ; that it required only an order of the.
Treasury to make the transfer; and he (the Duke of Rich-
mond) should not be surprised if the transfer had already been
made. It was objected that this country had lost 4,000/. a-
year -by the packets sailing too early for the passengers. He
remembered telling his Noble Friend, the then Chancellor of
the Exchequer, that if he agreed to the treaty with France,
there would ho a loss of 4,000/. a-year ; but his answer-
was, that ho (the Duke of Richmond) ought to lOok to the
great advantage which would accrue to the commerce of this
country by the merchants obtaining their letters at a much
earlier period; and therefore the Government ought not to
compete with private packets in conveying passengers- his
Noble Friend had spoken of the great loss sustained by
this change ; but he ought, on the other hand, to take into
account the gain by accelerating our commercial intercourse.
But what did his Noble Friend mean by 1050 It appeared
by the Appendix A., No. 97, that the total gain in one year
previous to the alteration was 31.5/. i .and that the the total
loss during the first three after the treatyis. was 10..2
being an averae.e less of about 45,0001, a year. Now suppose
they had taken'the packets by contract, what would have been
the loss ? During the three years of his experience of the.
change of system, the loss had been for the fist year 18,9591. ;
the next year, 21,612/. ; and the third year, I 7,000 b, making

an average low; of 19,043/. a year. But: could his Noble
• Friend expect that his letters could be carried for nothing ?
\Vitt' respect to the charge of peculation at Holyhead, the
Postmaster-General or the Admiralty ought to institute an in-
quiry who were the guilty parties, and when discovered, they
ought :E
ht to be punished. When he was in oce he had in.
tended to have gone to Holyhead and made, an inspectoti
there; but the reason he deferred doing so was, that it wits
every day expected the Government would conic to home
decision with respect to the transferentc of the psvhcl% It. the
Admiralty, Tito Commkslottera in thOr reptlt ?We, that tic? Lords of the Admiralty ought to regultte the teAlariNi ef 94
offices in the Pest-office steam-paeket Strtiet, It was also
his opinion that they ought td do sch At present thu 'pay a
those officers was tuft oti it fotttitts tkattly such ah th'2ir Lord.
!chips would'approk.e, The earttithis had 1451. 4 !;,,ar ordinary
pay; but then they were allowed freight, and. what profit they
great bemiit which wool(' he derived frQra
could make by entertaining the passengers, He did not think
it was a g sod system to make officers of the navy keepe. s of
packets under tl..c Admiralty, he
by callinii IV atten-
plitoutteiinsg; t'hinedil°eriset.oltiee
ex-
pected would be a change in this )-spect,
tion oldie Afimiraity
Viscount DUNI:,
further just
!vs _ to ts.e matter. -
'-i.NNON repeated his I.)iniort, that no
„Airy was necessary as to the (-large of peculation.
...1e person who had made the inquiry had taken the best
means be could to ascertain the fact, not only -with respect to
the charge of peculation in coals; but also Witit respect to iron
and t• oil. This person was contradicted by the resident at
Holyhead, but in every case he made good his charge.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH thought that a ease of
misconduct and peculation bad been made out, with regard to
the Holyhead station alone, - sufficient to make the public
anxious to have at least. as much efficiency displayed in, that
department, as was the case when the Noble Duke (Rich-
mond) was the Postmaster-General. He could corroborate
the statement of the Noble Viscount as to the facts arising out
of the evidence. He wished to ask the Noble Earl opposite,
whether the appointment of Captain llcvis was not at the in-
stance of the Lords of the Treasury ?
After a few words from the Earl of miyro, which were
rot audible in the Gallery,
The-Elul of LICHFIELD appointed Captain Bevis front
the Milford station to Holyhead, previous to any recommen-
datioh from the Treasury. He did so, because the Post-
office would otherwise hive been without an agent at the latter
station. On receiving the recymmendation of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, be (Lord Lichfield) informed him (the
Right Hon. Gentleman) otthe appointment he had made, at
the same time expressing his entire conviction of Captain
Bzvis's perfect competency to fill the situation. The experi-
ence he had since had of the conduct of Captain Bevis at
Holyhead fully satisfied him. that he was perfectly right in
making that appointment.

Lord A S fIeURTON had long had a strong impression on
his mind that some alteration in the system of the Post-office
department was absolutely necessary. He believed that the
Noble Duke (Richmond) was almost the tirst Postmaster_
General who could be said to have looked into the details of
that department. If any measure should be brought forward
for altering the organization of the system, he should certainly
give it his Support. The great and leading error in tho Post-
office establishment of this country was, that it was made a
source of revenue to the State. This was the only country
in Europe where impediments were thrown in the way
of commercial intercommunication by financial exactions.
He was perfectly well aware that. during the war the Mi-
nister required every means by which to obtain a revenue,
and that since the war, the demands 4:nr a reduction of taxes
of various descriptions had been w pressing, that it was not
to be expected the ChaneePor of the Exchequer would vo-
luntarily relinquish a tax against which no serious and earnest
complaint had beet& raised. But what surprised him was that.
in a commercial Country like this, and in a country too where
the diffusion Of knowledge was so strongly advocated, such a
serious Check upon the intercourse between this country and
foreign nations should have been suffered so long to exist. It
I.as a perfect anomaly, that on an expenditure of not niore
tban.soo,ooo/. a year, a tax should be raised to the amount of
upwards of a million and a Lalf. • What would be thought of
a tax upon verbal communications, or commercial transactions
in the same town? And yet in principle, a tax upon the corre-
spondence between commercial 'men in different parts of the
world, beyond the necessary revenue to defray the expense of
conveyance, was precisely the same thing.
Lord WALLACE concurred most cordially in the princi-
ple of the measure intended to be brought forward by the
Noble Viscount (Duncannon). He anticipated great advan-
t in-es from the substitution of a Board of Commissioners for a
sPiag)o Postmaster-General. He did not see any reason for
the appointment of a Corrimittee to make further inquiry on
this subject. They had the Reports of several Commissions,
composed of persons connected with all parties ; and every
ono coming to the same conclusion as to the desirableness of
substituting a Board of Commissioners for the present sys-
tem. For, notwithstanding what the Noble Duke had said
upon the subject of the Finance Committee of 1817, he (Lord
Wallce) still must claim the authority of that Report in fa-
vour of the view which he took of the subject. It was true
that Committee did not recommend the appointment of a
Board of Commissioners, to be constituted like the existing
Revenue Boards ; they were of opinion that it would not be
advisable permanently to leave the office of Postmaster-Gene-
ral in the possession of a single individual. If there ever was
a question which it did not seem necessary that that there
should be any further inquiry, it a-as the very one which their
Lordships were then discussing&
The Duke of RICHMOND, in his reply, said that it cer-
tainly appeared by the evidence that there had been great ne-
gligence and carelessness on the part of the agents at the
i)over and Holyhead stations, and that if lie had been Post-
master-General, he should have removed those parties. But
that was not a sufficient ground for altering the present system.
It was quite clear that the packets were to be transferred to
the Admiralty, therefore all the arguments deduced from the
sixth report in favour of the intended measure must go for no-
thing. In conclusion, he thought it but fair to give his Noble
Friend notice that when the Bill he was about to introduce
should enme before their Lordships, he (the Duke of Rich-
mond) should move, as an amendment, that the fifth report
should he referred to a Select Committee, and he should cer-
tainly take the sense of the House upon it.
After a few words from Lord WALLACE and Viscount DUN..
CANNON, the conversation terminated.

On the motion of the Duke of RICHMOND, the Marquis
of Salisbury, the Marquis of Londonderry, the Eari of Dart-
mouth, and the Earl of Oxford were added to the Loco-
motive Engine Committee.

The Bills on the table were then forwarded a stage.—
Adjourned.

Lord John 'Russell .ar:quainted Mr. Hoy that ho
c.)uld not fix a day for the Committee on the Laws of Benefit
Societies. On Th'lrsday next, the 23d inst., Mr. H. has
given notice of ;:t4 motion; Societies would therefore do well
to present Such petitions as arc prepared.
ALE DOMINATION.—What a stimulus to the
curiosity of the ladies ! To what happy region of society can
such a title bear reference ; and where are we '.o look for the
originals of this new gallery of portraits, furnished by the pi-
-quota/pen of the Authoress of " Mothers and Daughters?"
Thereby-, we are told, hangs a tale—a tale in three volumes—
well deserving the interest its mere announcement has excited
in the literary and fashionable world.

We are glad to hear that the O'Connel Subscription
ig going on most favourably in all parts of the country. We
hive received at our office 251. 4s. —Carlisle Journal.
CIRCULATION OF COUNTRY NEWSPAPERS.—
A " Return of the Number of Stamps issued in each month
by the Stamp Office, for all the Provincial Papers in Great
Britain, froni. the 30th June, 1835, to the 30th Apri', 1836,
prepared pursuant to an order of the Honourable the House
of Commons, dated 29th April, 1836," has been printed.
From this return it appears, that the total number of stamps
issued in the last ten months for the Leeds Mercury is
255,000 ; that the total number for the next highest among
the provincial papers is 220,000 ; for the next. 152,000 : for
the next, 127,000 ; and for the next, 109,000. It appears,
therefore, that the number of stamps used for the Leeds Mer-
cury has exceeded by thirty-five thousand the number used for
any other provincial journal in the kingdom, and consequently
that that paper continues to enjoy the support of by far the
most extensive body of subscribers of any weekly paper out of
London. The number of stamps consumed within ten months
(or 44 weeks) being
.255,000, the average sale must have been
5,795 'copies Weekly ; but as there have been a few weeks when
the sale was quite unusual, for instance, during the Assizes,
the average ordinary circulation must be taken somewhat
lower. The sale of the Leeds Mercury in the last month of the
above return, namoly, April, considerably exceeded that in
January, as is shown by the following statement :