The Sun.
London, England, 1838-02-17 00:00:00

REFORM OF THE LORDS.

Mr. GROTE presented a petition from Merthyr Tydvil, sign,d by
0,800 persons, in favour of Universal Suffhge, Vut2 by Ballot, the
shortening of the duration of Parliament, and Cie introduction
of the elee'ive principle into the House of Lords.—(Loud cries of
" Hear, bear.' He begged distinctly to state that he had not
received thi, petition until this morning's post, It.st it should be thought
that he bad withheld it amongst the petitions which he had pre.
rented last night.

Lord DUNGANNON objected to the petition being received. It
contained a reference to the House. of Lords, which he su'mritted was
irregular. He moved that the prayer of the petition be read. [The
petition wa.; acc'irdingly read at the table.]

Lord DUNGANNON said, that he should feel it his duty to move,
that the petition be not received, inasmuch as it prayed for the introduc-
tion of the elective principle into the House of Lords.
The SPEAKER. said that he could not see on what grounds the peti-
tion could be refused. Without referring to the expediency or policy
of the measure referred to in the petition, he begged to remind the
Nccle Lord that petitions had been last. Session presented to the
House, praying for the exclusion of Bishops from Parliament, and he
could not see, if the House was competent to entertain them, why this
petition should be rejected.—(Hear, hear.) •

Mr O'CONNELL submitted that the Nobl. Lord was interested in
the rejection of this petition, inasmuch as if it was refused it would give
him an hereditary right to a seat in the House of Lords in Ireland,
which had been abolished by the Act of Union.—(Hear, hear, and a
laugh.)

Lard DT NGANNON said that on a former occasion he had pr.:-
s-mted a petition which contained an allusion to the other House of
Parliament, and that the Spoake. had &Tided that it could not be re-
ceived. Ile begged to appeal to the Speaker if such was not the fact.
The SPEAKER said that he had not the slig:itest recoact.on of the
circumstance.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was quite sure that
when the Noble Lord referred to a decision which had been made at a
forme: time, tie did not expect that the House could bear in mind what
the matter contained in that petition was, and what the circumstances
were under which it was presented. The petition might have been so
framed that the House could not with any propriety receive it.
No one in the House or the country was more opposed to the prayer of
the petition than himself, but at the same time he could not see any
possible objection, in point of form, to its reception. Suppose a pe: ition
were presented to the House of Lords, complaining of the state of the
representation of the House of Commons, and asking it to repeal the
Reform Bill, such petition could not be objecte 1 to.—(Bear, hear.)
Sir R. INGLIS said if the prayer of the petition had been for an
elective Sovereign instead of an elective House of Lords, ho apprehended
that it would at once have been rejected. It had been remarked by the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dub:in, that his Noble Friend near
him (Lord Dungannon) had a personal interest in the matter.
The Peers of Ireland were elected by themselves, and his Noble
Friend might be elected by his brother Peers to sit in the other House.
If the House should tolerate this petition, in which the parties prayed
that one portion of the Legislature might be elective, others would no
doubt follow, praying that the Sovereign might also be elective.
Mr. O'CONNELL explained.
Mr. FRENCH thought that any further discussion was totally unne.
cessary, after the Speaker had given his decision.--(Hear.)
Mr. GROTE said the Noble Lord seemed to imagine that this was the
first petition which had been presented on the subject.—(Hear.) He
begged to state, however, that a great number of similar petitions had
already been laid on the table.

After a few words from Mr. GUEST,
Lord DUNGANNON said he had felt it his duty to protest against
:he presentation of such a petition.—Laid on the table.

Mr. M`LEAN presented s petition from Oxford, against the Borough
Boundaries Bill.

Mr. ERLE presented a petition from the same plate, praying for
Vote by Ballot

Mr. HUME presented petitions from the members of the Uxbridge
Mechanics' Institute, praying for Vote by Ballot, Household Suffrage,
and Triennial Parliaments. Also four petitions from parishes in Kit_
kenny, praying for a system of Municipal Reform.
Mr. W. GLADSTONE moved for returns of the :amount of Bri.
tish produce exported to the West Indies, in continuation of a re-
turn previously made.—Agreed to.

CHURCH ACCOMMODATION IN SCOTLAND.
Sir R. PEEL presented a petition from the Ministers and Elders of
the Presbytery of Glasgow, relating to the state of destitution of
church accommodation for the lower classes in the city of Glasgow,
By the practice of the House he was prevented from entering
into the details of the petition, but he trusted that it would attract the
attention of the House when it was printed. A report had been
made with reference to the building of churches, and he
could not but lament that none of her Majesty's Ministers were
present, as if they had been, it was his intention to have
asked them a question upon the subject--(Here Mr. S. Rice took his
seat)—and the Right lion. Baronet stated that he had presented a peti.
lion relative to religious instruction and Church accommodation
in Scotland. There had been no less than three reports upon the subject,
and he wished to know whether it was the intention of her Majesty's
Ministers to introduce any specific measure embodying those reports.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, not having been
informed by the Right Hon. Baronet of his intention to put the question,
he was not in a condition to state what steps it was the intention of his
Noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department to pursue.
Perhaps the Right Hon. Baronet, when his Noble Friend entered the
House, would repeat his question.
Sir R. PEEL stated that he would do so.
Lord DUNGANNON begged to ask whether the Chancellor of the
Exchequer was now able to say whether the Government had any
intention of extending the time for the voluntary commutation t
Tithes.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Treasury had
a p'.an fur facilitating the voluntary commutation of Tithes under their
consideration, but they did not think it was expedient to extend the
time. He would take the opportunity of moving that the House at its
rising adjourn till Monday.
Mr. HEATHCOTE begged to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
whether there was any intention on the part of the Government to alter
the English Tithe Bill ? An opinion of that kind had gone abroad,
which tended much to prevent the voluntary Commutation of Tithes.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not aware
of any intention of the kind on the part of the Government.
Mr. F. FRENCH begged to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether the Report of the Commissioners of the Shannon had yet

been received, and if so whether the Government intended to bring in
any measure to carry it into effect ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Report had
been received, but was delayed from the time that was necessary
for the purpose of engraving the plans. No measure would be intro-
duced by him until the compensation to be given to the Proprietors
along the River was settled ; otherwise the public money would be
swallowed up. _

Mr. Sergeant JACKSON begged to ask the Noble Secretary for Ire.
land whether he had any information respecting the murder of the
steward of Lord Lorton, the second one who had been murdered ?
Lord MORPETEI had received an account of such a murder.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. GA SKILL wished to know what course the Government in.
tended to pursue relative to the Municipal Boundaries Bill_
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged leave to
say that, in the first instance, he should postpone the Parliamentary
Elections Bill, and fix it for the first thing on Monday. That was not
an immediate answer to the question that had been now put, but he
stated it in anticipation of a question that might be put. It was his
intention to move immediately that the House should go into Committee
on the Irish Poor.law Bill, and to continue the Committee to as long
a period as the convenience of the House would permit. With respect
to the second reading of the Municipal Boundaries Bill, if Hon. Mem.
bees wished to raise a discussion on the principle of the Bill, that could
be done before going into Committee, and the second reading might
be agreed to this evening, and the Committee fixed for a day when Hon.
Members might be certain of being able to discuss it.
Mr WILLIA MS begged to observe, that he objected to the Bill en-
tirely on principle, and should oppose the second reading.
Mr. HUME said. that he had given notice of a motion relative to the
appointment of Mr. Primrose as chief cashier of the Post-office, &din.
burgh ; but as the House would not go into a Committee of
Ways and
Means, until perhaps twelve o'clock, which would be an inconvenient
time for him tabring this subject before it, he wished to ask the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer when he could have the opportunity of bringing
forward his complaint.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was very imperfectly
heard in the gallery. He was understood to say that he would be pre-
pared to go into the subject on Monday.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER the
third re,:cling of the Parliamentary Electors Bill was postponed to
Monday.