The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-29 00:00:00

ought to vote for this clause this night, but no such thing had been
done. He really thought that the debate should be adjourned, to enable
them to make up their minds, and in order that their decision
should carry with it such an appearance of authority as would
entitle it to the respect of the country. All the reasoning which had
been adduced was against the measure, while there was not the shadow
of an argument in its favour, and yet their Lordships were called upon
to support it, by a sort of compact or vion, which he supposed to stand
—though somewhat tyrannically, he must say—for a reason.— (Hear,
hear.) He could not account for the arguments against the Bill remain-
ing unanswered, in any other way than by concluding that no answer to
them had yet beets discovered, for, if there had, could their Lordships
doubt that it would have been brogght forward ? Was it not well known
that the country for which the measure was intended regarded it
in any light rather than that of a boon. But the Noble Viscount
cared nothing for this, as he said it did not signify anything to
him whether the popular voice was with his measure or not.—
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," and great laughter.) Not only
were there no arguments in its favour, but all the petitions which
had been presented were against it; and even the Noble Viscount
himself had got new light on the subject since Monday night.
What did the Noble Viscount then ssy ? Not that he was indifferent
about popular opinion. Oh no; but that he thought it most important
that his measure should carry with it, not only the voice of that House
but of the country.—(Hear, hear.) There was no reconciling the
two speeches which the Noble Viscount had made. He agreed with
what the Noble Viscount said on Monday night—that it was important
that this measure should be carried, if at all, not only by the united
voice of Parliament, but in accordance with the wishes of Ireland,
where it was to operate, and where it could not be carried into effect
unless the people were favourably disposed towards it. With this view
he concurred, because it was wise and statesmanlike, but was it not
inconsistent with what fell from the Noble Viscount that night ?
Their Lordships should recollect that this measure was to be applied to
people of Ireland—that it was, perhaps, to regulate their fortunes; and,
such being the case, he would defy any Government to carry it
into execution, unless the hearts and the hands of the people of that
country were ready and willing to assist them. Now he wanted some
reasons to enable him to decide whether he ought to support the measure
or not) but where was he to get them? At present he had only heard
one side of the question.—(Hear.) He thought lie could, by a few short
and general words, remedy the defect pointed out by the Noble
Earl. They were—" that poor persons who through old age, bodily
infirmities, or other causes, shall be unable to support themselves,
shall, during such inability, be entitled to relief, and also poor
orphans and destitute children." He entreated their Lordships
to pause before they 'enacted a measure which Ivould extend re-
lief to able-bodied persons, and to remember that those who gave
them counsel and advice against such a proposition were per-
sons who knew the condition of the people of Ireland, and
whose fate was bound up with the interests of that country.
These persons were biased in favour of no one system more than
another, but they had a greater advantage still, for they had the
experience of Poor-laws in this country for centuries, but more par-
ticularly during the last fifty or sixty years. The mischievous effects
which an indiscriminate system of relief had produced in this
country could not he denied, because they had recently been obliged to
retrace their steps. What was now proposed was to give to Ireland the
same system of Poor-laws which had worked so beneficially in Scotland;
and all he could say, in conclusion, was, that nn human legislature
was ever cursed with such infatuation as this would be if they rejected
the experience they had had both in Scotland and in England in order to
give to the people of Ireland all the evils which had accompanied the
English Poor-laws.—(Flear, hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved the adjournment of the
debate.

Viscount MELBOURNE had no objection that it should be adjourned
until Thursday next.

The House then resumed, and the Bills on the table having been ad
vanced a stage, their Lordships adjourned at one o'clock until Thurs
day next.