The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-06 00:00:00

TILE SUN, LONDON,

f awards, settling ti• les to lands, &c., and defining
parish boundaries).
St. Marv's, Whitechapel, Tithes and Easter Offerings.
Whittlesey St. Mary and Whittleiey St. Andrew
Union cf Parishes, and for improving the town of
Whittlesey.
Lough Corrib Improvement Company (incorporation
and amendment of certain provisions of the public Acts
1 and 2 Will. 4, cap. 57, and 5 and 6 Vict. 105, so far as
such provisions affect the said company).
Rock Life Assurance Company (giving further powers

to).
The Great Central Gas Consumers' Company (incor-
poration of the company for lighting with gas the City
of London and Liberties thereof, and authorising them to
purchase the works of exiting gas companies).

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS EVENING.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack at Five o'clock.
_ LAW OF MARRIAGE IN SCOTLAND.

Lord CAMPBELL laid upon the table two Bills, one
for am, nding the law of marriage in Scotland, and:the
other fur establishing a registration of births, deaths,
and 'marriages in Scotland. It would no doubt,
he said, be in the recollection of their Lord-
ships that these two Bills passed their Lordships' House
last session, and were sent down to the other House;
but at so late a period as to prevent them from
being passed. A strong opinion, however, was ex-
pressed in their favour, and be trusted their Lord-
ships would permit them to go through their various
stages s%ith as much expedition as the forms of the
House would allow. _ _ _

Lord BROUGHAM was exceedingly rejoiced to find
that these B►lls had been revived. They were measures
of the utmost importance to Scotland, and he trusted no
delay would take place in passing them through both
Houses of Parliament. _ _

Lord CAMPBELL said he proposed to appoint the
second reading of the Bills on an early day, if their
Lordships had no objection to his doing so.
The Bills were then laid upon the table and read a
first time.

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20
52
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VANCOUVER'S ISLAND AND THE HUDSON'S
BAY COMPANY.
Lord LINCOLN inquired of Lord J. Russell whether
he would have any objection to lay on the table a copy of
the charter granting Vancouver's Island to the Hudson's
Bay Company ; whether he had any objection to furnish
a continuation of the papers on this subject laid on the
table last year, and also a copy of the rs.port which he
understood was now in the Colonial- office, pre-
pared by the Government officer appointed by the
Governor-General of Canada to investigate certain com-
plaints respecting the government of the Hudson's Bay
Company.
Lord J. RUSSELL had no objection to lay copies of
the documents in question on the table. He did not
know whether the report to which the Noble Lord
referred bad been received at the Colonial-office, but he
would make inquiry.
COMMITTEE ON THE IRISH POOR-LAW.
In reply to an HON. MEMBER,
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said it was his intention to
nominate the Committee to-night or to-morrow.
ECCLESIASTICAL AFFAIRS.
Mr. HORSMAN inquired if the Government had any
measure with the view of altering (as we understood)
the composition of the Ecclesiastical Commission ; also,
whether the Government was prepared to ietrodece any
measure for the union of the Episcopal and common
funds, in order to render them more efficient for the
promotion of spiritual education ?
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that it was intended to
propose a Bill in the present session with respect to the
composition of the Ecclesiastical Commission, partly in
conformity with the report of the Committee of last
session and the views of the Government. The Go-
vernment had decided on introducing a measure in the
course of the present session with respect to the union
of the episcopal and common funds. He could not, how-
ever, state when the last measure would be introduced.
THE VERNON GALLERY.
Mr. HUME wished to ask the First Lord of the
Treasury whether any steps had been taken, as recom-
mended by the Select Committee of the House of Com-
mons of the last session, to provide a proper situation in
the National Gallery for the reception of the valuable
and noble collection of paintings presented to the nation
by Mr. Vernon.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL replied that the Government
were not prepared to propose at present any expendi-
ture of the public money on the gallery in question
beyond what had been expended in providing the exist-
ing temporary accommodation.
Mr. HUME referred the Noble Lord to the report of
Committee of the House upon the subject.
THE COLLECTION OFe:POOR-RATES IN IRE-
LAND.
On the motion of Mr. FRENCH, a return of the
number of military and police employed in Ireland in
the collecting of the poor-ates, between the Ist October,
1848, and the Ist February, 1849, distinguishing the
number of the force employed upon each oceasion.
DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE LEGISLA-
TIVE COUNCIL AND THE SUPREME COURT
OF VAN DIEMEN'S LAND.
Mr. ANSTEY wished to ask whether the Govern-
ment had any objection to lay upon the table of the
House copies of the several papers which had passed
between the Home Government and the authorities of Van
Diemen's Land; respecting the dispute which had arisen
between the Legislative Council and the Supreme Court
of that Colony ;.copies of all; correspondence (not al-
ready laid before this House.) between her Majesty's
principal Secretary of State for the Colonies and the
Lieutenant-Governor of Van Diemen's Land, respecting
the taxation ordinances passed by the Legislative Coun-
cil of that colony, which were recently declared by the
Supreme Court of the colony to be illegal; or respect-
ing the removal of Judge Montagu, or of any ordinance
subsequently passed by that Council for giving validity
to any such taxation ordinances.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not feel dislosed to give
those papers.
Mr. ANSTEY then would give notice that on the
15th inst. he should move that an humble address be
presented to her Majesty respecting the illegal ordi-
nances which had been passed by the Council in Van
Diemen's Land.
ENDOWMENT OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC
CHURCH IN INDIA.
Mr. ANSTEY gave notice that he should on an early
day move an address for copies of all Treaties and Acts,
or Ordinances, of the Local Legislatures of India and
the Colonies, whereby or under which provision is made
for the Ministers of the Roman Catholic Church in India.
Sir ROBERT INGLIS was proceeding to make some
remarks upon the subject, when
The SPEAKER reminded the Hon. Member that
whatever observations he wished to make must be made
when the motion was regularly before the House.
COMMERCE WITH BRAZIL.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Bankes, we understood) opposite had asked him
whether there had been any alteration made in the tariff
of Brazil under the late treaties. To this he had to reply
that though the alteration had been decided upon, it did
not come into effect until the Ist January, 1850.
Mr. BRIGHT wished to know whether the alteration
of the tariff of Brazil depended at all upon any legisla-
tion, or any expected legislation in that House. So long
ago as 1845 it was understood that there would be an
alteration in the Brazilian Tariff, which had not yet
taken place; and he wasatherefore, anxious to know
whether that alteration depended at all on the proceed-
ings of the British Legislature ? -
Lord PALMERSTON—CertainIy not.
BRITISH FLEET IN THE BAY OF NAPLES.
Mr. URQUHART wished to ask the Secretary for
the Foreign Department if he woule lay on the table of
the House the papers connected with the now concluded
negotiations which led to the presence, in the course of
last year, of a British squadron in the Bay of Naples.
Lord PALMERSTON would do so at the proper
time.

Mr. URQUIIART wished to know when that time
would be?
Lord PALMERSTON could not say, but there was a
" goo 1 t me coming."—(Laughter.)
ASSESSMENT OF PROPERTY IN IRELAND.
Mr. G. HA MILTON moved for a return, showing,
as respects each union and each province in Ireland, the
annual value of property rated to the poor-rates; the
expenditure for the relief and maintenance of the poor;
the rate in the pound on the value of rated property
of such expenditure; the total number of paupers
relieved ; the proportion per cent. to the population of
the persons relieved ; and the rate per head on the total
number of paupers relieved, for the year ending the 29th
day of September, 1848; also a return, showing the total
sum expended during the year ending the 29th day of Sep-
tember, 1848, for the relief of the poor in Ireland, under the
present poor-law system; distinguishing the amount
and proportion of such expenditure applied
in actual relief to the poor in food and
clothing, in and out of the workhouses; and show
ing also the amount and proportion of such expendi-
ture applied in defraying officers salaries and expenses.
whether vice-guardians, inspector 3, officers of work-
houses, relieving officers, and all other charges not com-
prised in actual sustenance, by food or clothing, of the
poor.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE was ready to grant the returns.
IRELAND.—SUSPENSION OF THE HABEAS
CORPUS ACT.
Sir G. GREY said he rose, in pursuance of the notice
he had given last session, to ask for leave to bring in a
Bill for the continuance, for a limited period, of the
Act of last session for the suspension of the Habeas
Corpus Act in Ireland. Her Majesty's Government would
gladly have dispensend with such a motion if they felt
they could have done so consistently with their duty, and
that the time had arrived when they felt that the ordi-
nary:powers of the law, with which the Government had in
ordinary times been entrusted, would have been sufficient
to enable the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland adequately to
discharge those responsible duties which attached to his
office. The Government were deeply sensible of the
gravity of the proposal which he (Sir G. Grey) had now
to make to the House. They were not insensible to
those serious objections which might, and ought to be
entertained, with respect to a temporary suspension
of the constitutional rights of the people of
this realm—(Hear, hear)—but they felt at the same
time that there might be exceptional cases in which
those objections could not obtain, and that there
might be a conviction—and a conviction entertained by
the best statesmen of the best times—that there were
circumstances in which the very spirit of our
Constitution demnnded a temporary and partial
suspension of those rights, in order to enable
the Government to maintain the constitution itself,
and to defend it against the assaults of those men who
might be seeking its overthrow. It is cne of those oc-
casions which was held to justify the appeal which her
Majesty's Government made in July last for the Habeas
Corpus Act in Ireland, to which appeal Parliament cor-
dially responded, thereby giving moral effect to
that measure, without which it must have been compa-
ratively useless. But it was with a deep sense of the
responsibility attaching to those to whom the adminis-
tration of affairs in Ireland was confided, that the
Government had felt it impossible, consistently
with their duty, to recommend to Parliament,
that these extraordinary powers should cease. In
stating the grounds on which the Government
had arrived at that conclusion, and on which he should
ask Parliament to assent to their proposal, he at once
admitted that the circumstances under which he now
made this proposal as respected Ireland were widely
different from those under which the Government
asked to carry out the temporary suspension of this
Act in July last. Ile was not there now to state that
any recent insurrection—immediately recent—had taken
place in Ireland, and that there were parties now in
arms against their Sovereign in Ireland. They
had been told the insurrection in July last
was a mock insurrection, and that the
measures taken by the Government to suppress
it were unnecessarily disproportionate to the occasion.
It might have been a mock insurrection on the part of
those who got it up—(Hear, hear)—he did not pretend
to state that in any part of the last year in Ireland
there was the remotest chance of the success of the
insurrectionary movement in that country, for it would
have been put down by the loyalty of the people of that
country, and by the efficient and valuable constabulary
force in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Although success
might have attended the combined loyalty of the sub-
jects of her Majesty in Ireland, and the soldiery, and
the constabelary force there, it was frightful to think of
the horrors through which the inhabitants of that
o in July
country might have passed before that insurrection was
Government
whichentirely
rather suppressed;
attachedto
and he
last was that they had been tardy in coming to that
House to ask for those extraordinory powers was to
some extent merited. The House could not have forgotten
mustthe
the exhibition of violent and threatening language
which occurred in the papers for many months—day
after day coming from persons in Ireland inciting the

people to take arms against their Sovereign, and end,,a-
vouring to seduce her troops and the constabulary force
from their allegiance, nor the details which apvar, d in
pap= rs, stoay.ing how the peopl, might defeat and de-
stroy those soldiers and that constabit!ary force, in the
execution of their duty. It was not right to
trest that insurrection as a contemptible affair,
because it had failed. In June and July last
he could not enter this House without gentlemen
putting into his hands letters from persons in that coun-
try, detailing the extremities to which the insurrec-
tionary spirit was carried, and how, in some cases, gen-
tlemen had had the lead torn off the roofs of their
houses, to be fused into bullets for the rebels.
Those were the circumstances under which the Govern-
ment had come to Parliament last July for increased
powers, and those circumstances have been proved to have
existed by every day's experience since. He felt that he
should be almost wasting the time of the House by refer-
ring further to the circumstances that then occurred, but
there was one or two documents he felt bound to
allude to in order to show the fallacy of the doc-
trine that had of late sprung up. that the in-
surrection was not an insurrection at all, and that there
was no! necessity for taking the precautions that had
been taken. Ile would pass over the circumstances
that had taken place at several of the trials in Ireland,
but there was one document he must shortly allude to,
es it had been the subject of great discussion else-
where, he alluded to the letter of Mr. M*Ghee,
who took such an active part in the transaction that had

taken place in Ireland. That letter appeared in the
New York Morning Herald. The Right Honourabl'
Gentleman then read several parts of the letter.
of Mr. M'Ghee, particularly those parts in which the
writer spoke of the revolution that had taken place in
France, the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act in July
last year, the harve:t in Ireland, the Confederates, the
oganization of the 500 Club, and stated that their object
and determination was to burn down the cities of Ire.
land, as the Athenians did Athens, intimidate
the troops, and render it impossible for them
to do their duty to their country or their Sovereign.
Now, after such a letter as that, he must confess that he
was astonished that Hon. Gentlemen should get up
in that House or elsewhere to assert boldy that the
insurrection was a mock insurrection.—(Hear.) He was
aware that the authenticity of the letter had been
denied; but he believed it had been clearly proved that
such was not the case ; he believed that now the most
sceptical persons did not doubt its authenticity, indeed
Mr. M'Ghee himself had reasserted the authorship
of it in his answer to a letter that had been
written against the first letter that he wrote, and
that answer had been published in the New
York paper of which Mr. M'Ghee was the editor.
It was towards the close of last session that the Act

was passed; and sits duration was -fixed so as to enable
the Government to csrry through the recess, and to say
when Parliament met again whether the powers it
granted should cease or be continued. During
the recess they had anxiously considered
the subject, and had arrived at the conclusion
which he had already stated to the House. The ques-
tion was, looking at recent occurrences and the spirit
and organiztrion which still existed in Ireland, and was
ready to flame out again whenever an opportunity was
afforded, whether the House should adopt the same
means which were contemplated and sanctioned last
summer. He was not prepared to state that
conspiracy still existed, but he would pledge himself that
the most anxious devotion had been directed to tee sub-
ject by the Lord-Lieutenant and her Majesty's Govern-
ment, who had collected information from every avail-
able source, and they had come to the irresistablo con-
clusion not to shrink from recommending the con-
tinuance of the Act. The Right lion. Gentleman then
referred to a communication which had been received
from the Lord Lieutenant stating, that although the
failure of past attempts had weakened the confidence of
the disaffected, there still remained a feeling of insubor-
ordination among them which, unless timely measures
were taken by the Government, might again beccme ac•
sive. All the evidence which had been collected tended
to confirm that opinion. Within the last few days there
appeared in Dublin an advertisement in one of the pa-
pers, to the effect that an extraordinary publication
would appear on the Ist of March next (that date having
of course reference to the expiration of the Act suspend-
ing part of the constitutional liberties of Irelano) a most
extraordinary publication would appear containing the
most spirit-stiring effusions, to be d dicated to the
young men of Ireland. It was described to be a publi-
cation the richest and most racy of its kind.—Laughter.)
He (Sir George Grey) had said nothing to lead
the House to imagine that the Government en-
tertained the least apprehension of the success
of any movements of the kind referred to,
He hoped that the events of the last few months would
undeceive the most credulous, and shake the confidence
of those who from vanity or other motives, took upon
themselves to lead the people. Many were impressed with
he great clemency which the Government had shown
in the administration of this law, at the same time that
they had vindicated the law, and maintained the peace and
tranquillity of the country; and he considered that the
Lord-Lieutenant was entitled to the confidence of all
loyally disposed persons.—(Hear, hear.) He had now
stated the reasons why the Government were of opinion
the Constitution should for a further period be suspended.
The powers which the suspension of the Act had con-
ferred upon the Lord-Lieutenant had been exercised,
he was proud to say in a conciliatory spirit, with the
earnest purpose of promoting the peace and happiness of the
country ; and the law had been administered in such a way
as to present any complaint being made in a single in-
stance. No blood had been shed on the scaffold in
pursuance of the sentences that had been passed. The
only blood that had been shed was that of the deluded
victims, whom he would not say had been led,
but who had been driven to their fall and
who had sacrificed their lives in a vain attempt to
achieve an impracticable purpose.—(Hear, hear.) In
elite-ling to the temperate way in which the Lord-Lieu-
tenant
had exercised the powers with which he
was vested, he felt that he should not ren-
der him all the justice that was due to him if he
did net read an address which had been presented to him
from the Corporation of Dublin, a body not very likely
to wish to take away unjustly any of the rights which
their felloW-subjects possessed. The llor.ourable
Baronet then read an address, which compli-
mented the Lord-Lieutenant, upon the temperate
spirit with which he had acted in an unpre-
cedented crisis. There was one point, however,
which he should not omit to mention in stating
the grounds on which he was asking the Douse
to continue the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act—
namely, that at former periods on which Parliaments
had agreed to the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act
for a given period, severe measures were either in ex-
istence or were at the same time put in force. For instance,
in 1803, when the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act was
renewed, a Bill empowering the proclamation of martial
law in Ireland was passed at the same time; and again,
in 1817, the Insurrectionary Act was passed simultane-
ously with the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, in
order that parties having arms in their possession might
be compelled to give them up without delay. Such an
Act was not now, however, in force; and, therefore, if
the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act were not
granted, the Government would not be in pos-
session of the requisite powers to rely upon
for the preservation of the peace. The Honourable
Member for Limerick alluded last night, with consider-
able displeasure, to the passage in the letter of the Lord
Lieutenant which dealt with the evils of political agita-
tion. He had had, of course, no communication
with the Lord Lieutenant since the speech of the
Honourable Member, but he might observe that
he was necessarily in constant communication with that
Noble Lord, and that the House would agree with him
when he stated that he did not object to political discus-
sion, but to that unfair discussion for impracticable
objects, which was the bane of Ireland the
bane of her industry, of her agriculture, and
commerce, and of every other improvement and to w hich
he thought, a check ought to be given because be
thought Ireland should now enjoy repose from exciting
agitation, and that the minds of the people should be
objects directed
otno
whichth e p pursuance, odfepmenodreed. Be was
permanent
e
anxious to read the reply of the. Lord-Lieutenant to the
fa.
un
tcue;welfare instead,
addresses of the Corporation of Dublin. The
/lon. Bart. then read the address, which stated, in
effect, that there existed on the part of the
Queen's Government, and on his own, a sincere
desire to inverting ;all the causes of the discontent
of Ireland, and to remedy the evils of which
she complained to the best of their ability.
Such were the sentiments of the Lord-Lieutenant,
and they are sentiments in which he cordially
concurred. It was on these grounds that the
Government considered that the limited powers
for which they asked should be entrusted to the hands of
the Lord-Lieutenant, with a view to the preservation of the
peace and welfare of Ireland. There could only be
one opinion as to the spirit of the advice of
the Lord Lieutenant ; not to look to agitation
to cure the evils of that unhappY country, but that
they would come to the consideration of those
evils with an earnest desire to promote the
development of her resources, industry, and,
is brief, raising her in the scale of nations,
which no one would be more .delighted to
see than himself; to achieve which her Majesty's
i Govern-
ment would render all the assistance n their
power. Instead of casting blame upon the Govern-
ment, and blaming them for not introducing measures. of
relief, those who really entertained sincere feelings
towards Ireland to stimulate each other to pro-
mote that end. For these reasons he asked the House
to give, for a limited period, the powers which the
Government believed necessary, for the due and
usefnl administration of which by the Execu-
tive they had
thee guarantee that the same
care would be shown in their exercise as during the
past. They had the responsibility of the Lord-
Lieutenant that the powers now sought would be
exercised in a temperate spirit, if the Lord-Lieute-
nant had acted' in an enlightened, manner
and with an earnest desire to promote and con-
serve the best interests of the country.—(Clear.)
When last year the Government had asked for the con-
tinuance of the act for seven months, they hal done so
in order to allow a certain time, with a margin
for the meeting of Parliament, in order that the Legie•
lature might judge whether the Act should expire.
The time which they now asked for the continuance
of the Act was six months, with a view to enable Pal lia-
ment to judge before it again separated whether the Act
should still be continued, whether this Act should expire
or whether any other Act should be passed to increase
or modify, or alter the powers of this Act. He should
therefore now only move that the Act for the
continuance of the suppression of the Habeas Corpus
Act should remain in force for a limited period.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL rose to move the amendment of
which he had
given notice.—(Hear.) He trusted that
when the House was about to pass a Bill for the continu-
ance of au Act by which all the power of the CW121329135

House of Parliament were to be passed into the hands
of the Executive, that they would at least con-
sider what they were about to do, and what
objects they were about to serve, and whether
indeed those objects to any good purpose practicable.
The only point which he had observed in the speech of
the Bight Hon. Gentleman was, that if any Member of
that House shoul I presume to say that he would do
this, that, or the other, that they should not do it simply
because ho thought it was wrong. If the British
House of Commons were prepared to assent to
any such principle, they would ho assenting to one
of the most tyrannous proceeding that could possibly be
adopted. The only effect indeed of such an Act
was to deprive the poeple of all political
rights. A Gentleman in that House had told
him only yesterday that the people were altogether pre-
vented from the right-of' petitioning, for a meeting had
within the last few days been held, the object of which
was to petition the Crown respecting a matter which
had nothing whatever to do with politics. But such
was the effect of this Bill, that no meeting of
any kind could be held without first going cap
in hand to the Lord• Lieutenant to ask him
whether he thought it was advisable that such
a meeting should tile place. One thing they
must remember that what they were doing with regard
Ireland was equally applicable to England, and that if
they confided such a power to any man,
they might, by the agency of a wicked
Minister, be equally subject in their own country
to evils similar to those which they were inflicting upon
Ireland. Was it because a graceless and disreputable
telllw like Garcy M‘Gee chose to write seditious letters
in America, that the whole country was to be oppressed?
( LEFT SPEAKING.)