The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-11 00:00:00

motion ; but, at the same time, he could not but exnects his
opinion that the petition—
Mr. H UNlE—There is no petitim
Lord JOHN RUSSELL understood the, Pon. '6.'etitletnen
that there was a petitiott,—( Hear, 'from Mr. Reidy.) If the
netition were presented, and he gave up his motions .fur 'the
sake ,of it, be must he understood that lie did so in order that
so important a subject should be brought before: the nouse.
Mr. HUME apprehended that, consisteot with the usages
of the House, if the House rare called upon to prenoutie.e
its opinion upon any eulleet that should be brought 'fek-'n-te'el,
a petition ought to have been presented. Ile theeePore sub-
mitted to the Hon. Member whether It would not serve his
own cause by giving notice of his intention to present his peti-
tion at an early day.
Mr. W YNN E apprehended that nothing could be 'so elear ee
..hat, when a Member stated that he had a breach of privileeee -to
brieg forward, the House would bear him without any notice
whatever, even is the midst of another diseussien,e4Cheers.)
It was esetential that an immediate remedy should be applied,
but ellen the House was in possession of the coMplaine, it
was then competent for them to de.al %Oh it as limy
thought proper—( Hear, hear)—either to deride tAnbn it
immediately, or adjourn the consideration of I.': to some
future moment. But, until -they had kneel the mattee
of the complaint, they could come to Tip cetttqWkOn 's
and having heard it, they oaai-ai either roan, it to
a Committee, or to a Select one..
They
could go on with it at
once, or-adjourn it to encO'ler day. It could not be questioned
that any Member had •.-. regitt, no matter what business wasbektre
the House, to briag at once under consideration a tettostion isf--
feeting the pri-.ileees of that [rouse.
Colonel BR-GEN ssl he did not inter:et to :testnepass
et any leeeds upon the attention .of the llouse while
presenting the petition with wltiels he was entrusted. H
should mea.-:,y read an abstratt from it which he held in Mt hand.
!_t• swed that from various letters and etattrnents which
"-ad gone before the public, the petitinners had heard that a
certain agreement or treaty had been entered info between
Daniel O'Connell and Alexander Raphael, by which the
said Daniel O'Connell covenanted and agreed to procere
the return of the said Alexander Raphael for the
County of Carlow, in consideration of two sums of
1.000/. each ; that that agreement was represented at 4
safe speculation and carried ireo effect by both parties ;
that the first sum of 1,000/. was so paid, and that previous
to the election for Carlow, a certain paper or address signed
" Daniel O'Connell" was put into circulation in the 'Culotte
recommending to the electors the said Alexander Raphael,
who was hitherto a perfect stranger; that after the tieetion,
the second sum of 1,0001. was so paid as agreed upon to Joists
O'Connell, acting under and by the desire of his father; lnat a
petition had been presented eomplaio.'.ng of the return; and that
previous to the ballot fora Qbintnittee the said second sum of
1,0001. was paid tee aro. received by, said John O'Connell; that
after such receieit, said Daniel O'Connell, and John O'Con-
nell, attent?ed the striking of the ballot, and Mr. O'Connell
havio answered to his name, was suffered to remain on the
Committee, and was sworn at the table well and truly to try
the merits of the petition according to the evidence. The
petitioners submitted that such =idea was its %gelation of
their rights as electors, and of the privileisea d that House.
Having now discharged his ditty to his tonstitueuts, he shoitid
abstain from making any remaßta, being sure that none Were
necessary in a case chasatettrised by such nwiestrous proceed-
ing-t—( Hear, hear, tom the Oppositiots)—hut would leave the
matter altoerether in the hands of the House.
The retition was then mad by the Clerk.
Mr. HARDY then rose to present the Petition be had been
entrusted with, but was interrupted by
Mr. O'CONNELL, who said—Sir, I interfere between the
two petitions. The reason of my interfering will at once be
obvious to the House. In the first place, I hope there is not a
single man in the House who differs from me in opinion that
there arc grounds of inquiry, and grounds for a Committee)
laid in that petition.—(Hear, hear.) It is my Opitiiotl there
are.—(Hear, hear,) I have always voted For an inquiry, if
there have been Parliamentary groUnds stated for that in-
quiry, whether the case has been my own, or that of any
body else ; and when grestuds arc stated, I always will vote fur
an inquiry.—( Lend cheers.) On the present occasion,
as far .as 1 am concerned myself, I shall not complain
of the unusual I will not call it a monstrous proceed-
ing—(Cries of " Hear, hear ")—but the unusual proceeding
that such a petition should be in the hands of any Member
without giving a copy of it, or an intimation of its contents.
For myself I scorn to complain, but I appeal to every man of
good feeling—l. appeal to every father in this Ilonsewhether
it was right to introduce the name of Mr. John O'Connell ?-ee
(Cries' of " Yes.") I don't say introducing hid hate, but
without giving him notice ?—(llear.) Rest could the Hon.
Member—is he a father I--how e‘ettla he think of bringing
forward an allegation against tee integrity, upon oath, of Mr.
John O'Connell, vvithettt giving him an intimation of
the charge ?-4 Long- cries of " Hear," and cheering.)—
Party spirit is bad, but it is infernal when it tears
up by the roots every kindly, and generous, and ho-
nourable feeling of our nature, and indulged in an
~mputation of what ? Perjury 1 And against, before God, as
pure a creature as ever breathed—the Member for Youghalh
If the Hon. and Gallant Member had in his composition
any thing of humanity; if he were not dna person. whose
desolated villages--(Tremendous cheering, which lasted for
some time, and drowned what the Hon. Men.ber said)—
If he were not the person against whose tyranny the
widowed mother raised the voice of complaint—( Renewed
cheering)—if he were not of such a nature he would not
have made this attack without giving notice to the Member
for Youghal, in order that be might throw back into the foul
den the calumny.—(Loud cries of " Order," and great
cheering. The cries of " Order" from the Opposition were
so loud that Mr. O'Connell was compelled to sit down.
The SPE AKE R.-:-I am sure that the Hen. and Learned
Member will moderate the expression he has used.
Mr. O'CONNELL—Sir, I was carried away by my feel
ings, but of course lat once submit to the Chair. But
I might have been excused 1 spoke of the petitioners.
I said that I cast back to their den—(Loud criesNpf Oh, and
tremendous }leering.) I was understood, otherwlse it seems
--(Cries of oh, oh, and still louder cheering, in the
midst of which some Member near Mr. O'Connell—we believe
it was Mr. H. Grattan, cried out, " The Orangemen.")
Are there no Orangemen there ?—(Pointing towards the
Opposition. Loud cheers.) I admit that I have been tarried
away ; but I do not think that in appealing- ott his behalf to
the House, for whom alone I appeal, that any man would bona
demn me of any great error in being a little more Vieteht than I
should be on any other subject.—(Chexe-a) but I will go on
It is on behalf of the Member for 17:0ughall thus assailed, that 1
I appeal: Its the first places, 'was it not perfectly well known
that I addressed the elettas of Carlow on behalf of Raphael
and Vigors ? Was it not perfeCtly well known to the peti-•
titioners when they choose to have on the Committee John
O'Connell— ::id they not know with the fullest knowledge that
I was 4 strong partizan of Vigors and Raphael?--(Loud
cheers.) Had they not a perfect knowledge of this
and yet they leave John O'Connell on the Committee. Oh 1
they understand Committees. The had a perfect knowledge
that they were secure of their Committee,—(Tremendous
cheering.) I appeal to any Member of that Committee to
get up and, say whetheo John O'Connell did not, upon
that Committee, as conscientiously end fairly exercise
his duty as any other Member `?—( Hear, hear, hear.)
Why do I sae, this? becatien the Chairman of the gotniiiittee
had bore.; testimony tb tile conduct of Mr. Joins O'Connell,
and lecommended it as worthy of initation; and what.
alter all, is the charge etealest him ? why thie—that
he was the messenere of his fattier?—(Cries of " Hear.)
but. I know the ohject end motive of these proceedings. It
afforded it fruitful theme for your Tory newspapers; for ant
I not the steel( in trade of nine-tenths of you?--(Cheers
and laughter.) But lam consoled for all these attacks
by my consciousness of my son's integrity, and I bless my
God that a mother never had a more dutiful or respectful
child than he who is the subject of your accusation.—
(Laughter and cheers.) yes, you endeavoured to plant a
dagger in my hearts—you endeavoured to stake the reputation
of my child's btit your attacks will recoil upon yetirselVe.S, awl
the character of my son will come pure and unattliit-el through I
the • ordeal.—( Loud eheera )
Colonel BRIJVN thought it unnecus iry to give the Hon%
and Learned Member referred to in the petition any ether
notien except the notification he had given of hit iitlerdion
to present that petition. With. reapeet to hid einii'l,re against
him of having depopulated sillagtS, he could only say that it
was just as true as the viierality of his accusations.—( Loud
cheers from the Tory Benches.) With respect le his
character as a -landlord lie was happy •to say
he was not ashamed to tontpaet it with that of
the Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin, or
with any other landlord its that Molise.—(Hear.) If the
freeholders hail becti petit-titled to .exercise their franchise in
conformity with their own wishes, a large majority of the
country would have borne testimony to the estimatldn in VVilicii
that character Was held, and many of the freeholders who
voted for them did so at the risk of their lives.—(Hear.)
The gentlemen of Ernelattel were totally ignorant of the cis.
eumstances connected with it.
Mr. .T. O'CONNELL was totally unable to speak at pre-
sent upon one matter, as he was unable tts emmtiand him-
self in alluding to the Hon. Member who had spoken last
but one.--( Henn ) '['here were private relations between that
Hon. Member and himself, to which lie should not refer, but
he would addrese himself at elm to the matter in debate.
lie felt that the present attack had been made upon him for
the purpose of injuring that Hon. and Learned Member, but
he (Mr. J. O'C. ) courted inquiry also, arid was most anxious
for it.—(Loud cheers.) The Hou. Member who had spoken
last had defied matters to be proved against him, but let an
inquiry take place into the conduct of both parties, and let the
public judge between them.—(Cheers.) He would not intrude
further upon the House, as lie did not know what other
infernal machine might be in store for him, but he should be
ready to answer either there or—(A pause). He should be
ready to answer anything that might be brought against him.
—( Cheering.)
Mr. HARDY had also a petition to present from. Bathe
signed by the inhabitants, who were friends to purity of elec-
tion and the enemies of corruption.—( Laughter.) He should
rather not read the petition himself but leave it with the Clerk
to do so. With respect to the charge dills not baying presented
the petition to the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, he
lwt
voeurleddo
tnol y say ,h the
let ta
tot ns
etehne
avery
nctl aeyd
et he epypseettittti
le,
rue,
mu
abtehetnn de-
himthehands of a friend of the Hon, and L' earned Member, and he
considered that that rendered hi
is.ptereshe,ndtinhg a (eve:l tolalfly un•
necessary.—(Hear, hear.) r i
want of courtesy, lie could assure' the- ePeonh ; gauni cltyLoeerrailei
d
Member that lie was sorry for it, but he did not
intend that such should be the case. He abetesht ioleast of all
necessary to piesent a copy to the Mil of the Hon. and Learned
Member. He (Mr. - Hardy) attaceaed no blame whatev'er. to '
—(Oh, o
Hon.hh
IMaenmdbcerh.eer He efr(omMr.
'the li aorpdypo)sitwiaosnasifndatetilel)mera hi me
to be
not look on the conduct of that young oo

_ . e
f t7ll
etlietwese eteesn'seersr toes tee:We.° 01 his elteer.e-e cep,
aiA. cc-ice tef " tnerne.") If thatel.,en• : cienq
,!.41..,1hing Wrote; When •'acting pbedienee to the direreient
his ftther, he (Mr., Hardi) cetinipe • tesme to him.)
lie should the+-,t`ir
a, , ...
'cement himself with
should le read by the Clerk of the Table, and the
house: presenting, the
Ch s'
might receive ,t• as they teeeiges etrnereer, ,eics
from the oppesition.) w loya itco4; reee.
tvliether tt ss',*oj'eet toe M-fairy, . • , ¶soril
'2IA-1S RUSSELL requeeted the Hen. Member to
read the prayer of the petition. . . . .
Mr. HARDY said that the fir:le-steer thn petition was that
the principles of •r 0
-,Y (,4
effort 7-e:ol'46'ld-66e 'eliee'ri:nsis ••e 'the eeetitiori
Cominittee of the eupportee?: et` thb"(!n" th
‘icaci.
Bath. Tlie petition fieette'r prayed that enquiry should be
instituted kiss tee transaction' at the eketiori for Carlow
:Tint til'e unpublished letter's A*6uid be to light-ea
Cheers)--and that 'stele 'should be taken as would he
predectiee fel of a proper Parliamentary election:-es
(Chasre helm Mr. O'Connell ) If be had e oi-bssilttcel eties, pG
!thee to the lion. Member for Dqbita kleele4given him
notice of his intentioii geiii the petition, howaS sorry for it i•
•but them WO than better able to grasp, at the subetantie of
ihlingt and d.ctendhimssell trenn any charge brobght against hint
Tim Hon. Gentleman then brought kip tilts pelitiee,,Whlch
irdtt the inliiibitaiit's tit Bath, edtho.inibg. or. the course
pesetted at the Into Carlo* Eke; ieti, arid prAyili*ftir
.'itzs. petition leaving beset 'teed et 'O4Ol b)tie telerie
the tables,
obi 1., A fOTON ad.ciretked the. koil§c.; but
Itt tuch a tone 'of Voice; that it Wit illffibet Implistiblc Ili
catch the impeist hiit ',4,hatiß-ations. We understood him
le sets
eeesee tesk`Pet that any portion of the inhabitehts
ce, Jaoi—a city so respectable could be sit NA, deluded as to
be prevailed upon to sign the (Cilium.—(Hear, heal%) He
would never hesitate, from any difference in political senti,
meat, to present any petition to that House.
Mr. IWEBUCIi. felt tailed iipett to say something • its-
! specting the petition, and first with regard to the asscr..
tion Made on the. (Allot side—that it ettiatinted froth
his (Mr. Roebuck's) supporters. He repudiated such afl
aisertion—le came from those who, tinder• the guise of
liberality, and assuming the name of a Liberal Association;
had propagated the most deadly Tory princisks, well know
ins that if they adopted a name more suite to the object of
this Astotiation they would utterly fail of stkeent. They
Wert the same body who, well knowing him to be 100 miles
distant, had etdeavottred to do him a great injury, and they
ivel
these who had acutually canvassed the Members of
that House, on a matter ()lardy private, under the name
of a liberal association, which every man in Bath well knew
they were the most rabid Tories In the Kingdom,--( Cheers. )
They were the same persons tvhcetvrote to his Hon. Friend as
had been stated by him, requesting his support, but when he
saw the name at the foot of the letter, he thought it was a
Tory one, though at the top it professed to come front a
body of a different description,—( Hear, beer, beer.)
But hta Honourable Priend had known the Changes
which had taketi place in the political circles, and he
seethed to bb ithaerait of the taet, that those who professed
Radicalisitt to. day, Might be found on the next sitting on the
'l'dl'y benches—(Cheers)—or teat those who were Tories in one
week might rapidiy come over to the ministerial side of the House.
This was the truth as regarded this petition. There was one
name attached to the petition which, by the writing, he very
much believed to be a forgery. Ho would ascertain whether
'it was or not by the neat post—(hear, hear)—and he would
pledge himself to state whether he was mistaken or not. But
it do so happen that this very person, not three day@
ago, Wrote a letter to him „ (Mr. enclosing a
settrrilout attack against himseit—(Aear, hear, hear)—on
the part of that Association, disclaiming it wholly, and using
very strong terms against that Association. —( Loud cheers.)
He felt therefore bound to say, that he believed that name to
be forgery ; and he knew that this petition emanated from the
Tories of Baths.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL rose. I have but one word to say in
answer to the Member for Bradford. That Hon. Mem-
ber, by way of excuse for not letting me have it copy
of this petition, seems to insinuate that he did it to
spare my feelings..—(Hear, hear,) Well, now, this is the
oddest way of sparing a man's feelings that I ever heard of.—
(Loud cheers and laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman will not
hurt me by showing me this petition in private, which at the
moment he intended to shnw to the Whole British Empire.
This it the tenderness of the butcher to the calf; he would
not show hint the knife for the world—(tremendous cheering
and great laughter)—as if some exceedingly good.natured
friend would not be sure to furnish me with a copy. The
Hon. Gentleman may he a good-natured friend of this sort,
but I can assure tite House that I have nothing of' this petition
from Bath except that the Member for Ipswich showed me a
letter which contained no particulars, and the only part of
which that related to this petition was this sentence—,c that
ho who had been always an enemy to corruption ought not to
allow any man to put money into' his own pocket by means of
Parliamentary influence," Why the only answer that
any man could give to this would be in the nezativo.
But I ask the Hon. Member for Bradford what he Means to
insinuate against the Member for Youghall, when he
says that he acted under my directions ? (Tremen-
dous cheering from the Ministerial side.) This seems to have
been said as an excute for the conduct of that . Gentleman
I want to know—and I hope the Member for Youghall will
take my advice--which, as far as I can make it strong, I
would du so, all his life, command has been unnecessary.
I hope he will take my advice, and leave this matter entirely
bAween the Member for Bradford and myself. There is no
part of his conduct for which I conceive any apology necessary.
I deny that there is any apology necessary for my sou, lie
was bound to attend here. Everybody knew that he wss my
son. There must have been eleven persons more unfavour-
able than him to the petitioners, or they left bins on
to parade him.—(Hear and cheers.) In either case what
was there in his conduct that requires an apology. If no
attack can be made upon him openly, let him not be covertly
insinuated against. (Cheers.) I can tell the Hon,
Member for Bradford that the character:of the Hon. Member
for Youghal is stainless as the driven snow and ever will rte
main so; and when I tell him that, I defy him to attach arty
thing to that non. Member. I ask for a Committee, and let
the charge be there stated—let there be no affectation of an
apology for what requites none. I-laving. Rattle that inquiry,
as I do net intend to speak again, I would suggest that both
these petitions be printed, and placed in the hands of every
Hon. Member.—(Hear,) This It b. eitiestiori of privilege.—
(Cheers.) I ani not wanting to throw the Inquiry back,
But I wish that it should be full, and that the absurd notion
which every man must know to be false, may be done away,
that one single farthing, or a thousandth part of a farthing,
of that money remained in my hands,-( Hear)-tor that I had
the slightest pecuiary interest in the transaction.-=( Lear, )
Let there be a fair Committee._(Load ebeerS, ) I have beer,
battling against peeked juries all my life, and I shall not erne
submit to anything hut a fair and impartial tribunal. Let
the Hon: Member then give notice of the day for
taking the petitions' into consideration—let myself anti
the Hon. Member for Youghal then he heard itt our derelict,
for Isbell give no answer to the eltarge at present.—( Cheers.)
I throw myself' tin the good feeling of the )Mottle. But
with respect to the Hone Member for Youghal, all I want to
know front the iloititurabte Member fdr Bradford lei what'
act et lite IA requires any apology:-..(Loud cheers.) If the
Hon. Member will take that course let the Hon. Member for
Youghall be heard, end if leis con itiet hits beta honourable let it
he diet:flea), a:knitted by the Iloase,—(llear.) IF that be so
what I fpropose is that tile petitions be printed, and the
day atter they ct'c 11l the hands of Honourable Members,
let the Honourable Member for Bradford move for his
Committee, and I shall support it. There is a Parliamen-
tar/ ironed laid for this icquiry, and let the but
be enabled to snake whatever statemeat I think proper in reply,
and I shall be able to satisfy the ileitse attic falsity of fliis charge
caluisthy, wirier; by the by, are .not believed by alt the peopla
of England:--e( Hear; hear, hear.) I heard it from
.bae elit!i hist night, with 01-W tlthtiltanedtis *eke they expressed
their disbelief of the calumny. I ern, Sir, a Iladieal Reformer.
I avow it here, a thorough radical Reformer, and I defy
any man t ,'slid* it singib eat Of tny life ineensistent with
the . principlee I }late ever advocated, or one single
ac t in tiolaiiOit of the jititiEiple of purity of election.—
( di)! !I-ern the opposition.) Let those
who have given twenty Potinds a head fur vote:,`, acne me of
violating the purity ofelection. All I ask for is a ;all- trial--
an epeti, intitiirk: I don't shrink from
it.—( Hear; hear.) But here, In the face of this
House I now demand Loud cheers.) It is stated that
I attended }lie ballot when the Committee on the Carlow •
ElectiOn was struck, but I Wee hdt. the Howe on that occa-
sion, and even if :I was, en my xanw being called,
I would answer petition against."—( Hear, hear.) Let
Tuesday heat be appointed for bringing forward the- charge
a.gainet me. Let the statement of the Hon. Member be
heard,, and let me be heard in my defence. I will then
state My tietts as to bow this inquiry ought to be
condueted.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") I will state my
objections, if objections I have to the course that may be pro-
posed, and if there should be found the slightest stain on my
character, I am ready 'to submit to the consequences.—
( Loud cheers.) But, Sir, I feel that no imputations • can
be thrown on my character, and I shall stand unim-
peached both in point of fact and feeling.—Loud cheers.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL rose amid much cheering. He
begged to be allowed to make his own defence, for he required
nil pereoh to wile any defence for him. He had sufficient
sense to know what he vvaa sent about, and when be was
sent with the papers, he felt that he was doing that to which
no blame attached. If there was any blame, lie claimed his
full shete of it.—( Cheers.)
Mr. HARDY said that when he made the observations
he had done upon the Honourable Member who had just sat
down ; he trusted that they would be rather in the spirit in
—( Cries of " Oh, oh.")
which they were made.--(Cries He stated
that he saw nothing to blame in bins ; because he
might go
to a party and receive the money, not being cognizable of
the circumstance under which it was given.--( Cries of Oh.)
With respect to the proceedines, he trusted the House would
allow him to state how it was that he haspened to be in
the situation be at present was.—(Hear, hear.) He was
a Member of the Bribery and. Intimidation Committee last
Session, and having Wastrel-a fort-Yard a Bill for prevention of
bribery, and having gone ehrovesh Ivio Committees, containing
a clause against bribery and corruption, and that clause having
been rejected in consequence of the letters he had seem
between Mr. Raphael and .1: r O'Connell, he was
anxious that that clauSe should
be inser, ted•—(Hear, hear.)
When he tool: up the correspondence' respecting the
Carlow election, he did not draw the in!erence from it
Member for Durh.em had purt
that the Honourable
any sum of money into
-nto his pocket..—(.t.oud cries of " Hear.")
He did not impute
this to him, although it had been imputed
d the person the Isargain was made with.
in the public prints, an
constitute trafficing that a man
But it is not necessary to
should put money 111
•to his pocket. If it appeared tha