The Sun.
London, England, 1831-12-16 00:00:00

11IPERIAL PARLIA MENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS DEC. 15.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack
at Twenty Minutes past Five o'clock.
Mr. Tomline, from the Treasury, presented the Herring
Fishery Report.
On the motion of the Earl of SHAFTESBURY', it
was ordered that the Home would not receive any peti-
tions fur Private Bill 4 after Friday, the 30th of March ; nor
any Judges' reports on such petitions after Monday, the 7th
of May.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS.
The Earl of ABERDEEN, in consequence of the on-
certainty of the speedy attendance of his Noble Friend the
Duke of Wellington, deferred his motion with re-
spect to the differences of Holland and Belgium till
after the holidays. He regretted exceedingly the delay, but
he felt certain their Lordships were as anxious as him-
self to hear the sentiments of that Noble Duke,
who was so conversant on the subject. As he
was on his legs, and seeing the Noble Earl at the head of
his Majesty's Government in his place, he wished tt ask
him, as he saw by the votes of the House of Commons that
a return had been made of the expences of the fortifi-
cations of Belgium and Holland, whether he had any ob-
jection to lay those returns before the House?
Earl GREY nodded assent, and the returns were ordered.

IRISH TITHE SYSTEM.
On the order of the day for their Lordships being sum-
moned being read,
Lord MELBOURNE moved the reading of that part
of his Majesty's speech which referred to the tithe
system in Ireland, after which the Noble Lord addressed
their Lordships. In consequence of that part of his
Majesty's speech, and of the address unanimously
voted by their Lordships to his Majesty, he now
rose to move for the appointment of a Select Com-
mittee to inquire into the collection and payment ,of
tithes in Ireland. He trusted he should he able to
persuade their Lordships to agree to the motion which he
felt it his duty to submit to the House. He felt as
much as any man the great difficulties and importance of
the question, and how much it was connected with feel-
ings on which there prevailed great differences. He should
therefore approach the discussion with the utmost caution.
It would be presumptuous in him to request their Lord-
ships to adopt his sentiments on this occasion ; but he
trusted that, on this important subject, unanimity would
prevail in that House. It was almost unnecessary for
him to state that, for very many years past, the collec-
tion and payment of tithes in Ireland had been the
cause of great animosity. The disturbances which
from time to time had agitated Ireland had been in most
instances connected with the payment of tithes. When
the condition of Ireland pressed itself, as in 1822, on. the
attention of Parliament and the country, a Bill was
passed called the Tithe Composition Act, which
gave very general satisfaction in Ireland, as he could
hear testimony to at the time he was in Ireland.—
Unfortunately, as their Lordships well knew from
the debates in that House, and more particularly
from a petition presented by the Bishop of Ferns, in
the language of the speech, there had been a syste-
matic opposition to tithes in many parts of Ireland, more
particularly in the Queen's County, Carlow, and Meath,
where a determination had been manifested not to suffer
goods to be distiained for tithes, or where they had been
distrained not to be sold. That had reduced the clergy
in that part of the empire to the greatest distress,
and it had become necessary for the Ministers to
call on their Lordships to institute an inquiry into the
cause which had produced such distress in Ireland.—
(Hear, hear.) If it were owing to a settled determi-
nation not to pay tithes, or if it arose from
a lawle,s spirit, the law would be strong enough to check
such conduct. But he had no doubt it had arisen from
the imperfect operation of the Composition Act, which had
rendered tithes difficult in that country and odious also. Its
operation was imperfect and partial. The questions, con-
tinued the Noble Lord, which will naturally come under
the consideration of the Committee are, whether the evils
arising from the tithe system are attributable solely to the
mode of their collection, whether to the imperfect or par-
tial operation of the Tithe Composition Act, or to other
causes not comprehended in any of those. I may here ob-
serve incidentally, that one of the reasons why the Tithe
Composition Act was so limited in its operation is, that
the tithe of agistment is so partial in its operation. Again,
another source of the obstructions which the Composition
Act had to encounter is to be found in the fact, that
though the parishioners and the incumbents had in many
parishes agreed to avail themselves of the provisions of the
Act, set the diocesan—doubtless in the exercise of a sound
discretion—had refused his consent : many parishes are,
thr,cfmr, left to ell the evil, of the ancient system, and
the proctor and his attendants are allowed to proceed with
the license, which, in the worst times, marked the pro-
ceedings of this class of functionaries. The result has
been, that the sound parts of Ireland have been infected by
the unsound, and the odium that the old system of collec-
tion alone ought to occasion has extended itself to tithes
themselves. I shall, with the permission of the House,
read a passage from a letter, which has been supplied to me
by my I(i:slit Hon. Friend, the Secretary for Ireland :
tt I am confirmed in the views I have above offered to your
consideration, from the fact that, even in the disturbed districts
of Clare and Galway, where composition was early and,readily
adopted, throughout the extensive districts of the dioceses of
Clonfert, Kilmacduagh, and Killaloe, as yet no opposition has
been generally made to the payment of composition rent ; but
it has been invariably considered as a boon and a blessing so
all parties.
" It is not so, however, in the county of Carlow, King's
County, Queen's County, Kilkenny, and part of Tipperary ; in
fact, through the finest lands of the kingdom, where composi-
tion has slowly and reluctantly progressed.
" The broken and irregular character of tithes, in the rust of
its great antiquity, renders the variety and number of claims on
the land both harassing and vexatious ; the frequency of calls,
and the uncertainty of receivers, are so varied and perplexing as
to occasion much annoyance to the poor. There are a vast num-
ber of instances in my own parish, where one poor man, whose
whole tithes annually do not amount to more than Is. Bd. per an.
num, arid yet subject him to have his cow, sheep, pig, or horse,
taken and driven to pound six times in the year for tithes, and
liable, on each and every driving, to a charge of 2s. fxl. driver's
fees, besides expellee of impounding, and waste of time from his
labour in seeking the person duly authorised to give him a re-
ceipt. He is liable to be summoned, moreover, and decreed for
vestry seas, once in the year, making annually seven calls, on ac-
Count of the Church, to his little plot of ground ; besides, his
little holding is liable to two calls in the year for Grand Jury
public money, and frequently two calls more for Crown and quit-
rent. Thus eleven calls are made upon his small holding in the
year, besides his landlord's rent, and for sums trifling in them-
selves, but perplexing and ruinous in thecosts which attend them.
surely such are hardships that ought to be removed.
"Throughout the diocese of Clonfert and Kilmacduagh, in
which this parish is situated, the Bishop takes one-fourth of every
t itheable acre of land. The county is verymuch broken up amongst
cottier tenantry holding small plots of an acre each, with a cabin
or cottage upon it. The whole diocese is compounded for at an
average rate of about one shilling per acre."
Your Lordships will now see that if ever there was a
case which called for legislative interference the present is
that case. Here we have a system which imposes calls
for the tithes due to the Bishop, to the Rector, the Vicar,
the Prebend, and the Vicars Choral. It might be said
that the case referred to was only a local evil, limited in
its operation and confined in its extent; but what is the
fact ? It spreads throughout the whale diocese of Clon-
fert, which includes a large portion of a large county
(Galway). The Bishop, it appears, is entitled to ones
quarter of the tithes, which amounts to Is. an acre; and
the consequence of this and other circumstances of a like
nature is, that the greatest possible difficulty takes place
in the collection of the tithes—which none but persons of
low character, prepared to take every unworthy advan-
tage, will engage in. Such a state of things, I hesitate not
to affirm, demands inquiry at our bands, with a view to
the adoption of some measure calculated to remedy the
evil which has been so long and so loudly the subject
of complaint. I think it is now unnecessary for me
to trouble your Lordships with entering further into de-
tail. 1 think I have stated quite enough to satisfy any im-
partial man that we ought to go into Committee. If
his Majesty's Government were in possession of the neces-
sary information, and felt themselves prepared to lay be-
fore Parliament an adequate remedy for the evil which
his been made the subject of complaint, I feel that it
would be needless for me to trouble the House with a mo-
tion for the appointment of a Committee, hut of necessity
Government do not feel themselves in that situation. A
Noble Lord has, on a former occasion, stated that the
clergy were neither exorbitant nor extortionate in their
'demands, neither did there exist on the part of the people
any very strong indisposition to pay to the clergy that
which was their undoubted and legal right. To meet the
wishes of both parties, and secure their just rights, it
would be the business of the Committee to collect, ar-
range, and examine the evidence which might he ad-
duced on this subject. They would have further to con-
sider how far it would be expedient to extend to all,
or, if not to all, to what parts of Ireland, the Composition
Act should be compulsorily extended, or whether that
clause which would entitle the tenant to present a
receipt for tithe to his landlord, as payment of his
rent pro twit°, or whether they ought not to look to a
larger and snore comprehensive measure, which would
secure to the clergy a broader basis on which
to rest their incomes, and to the people that relief from
the,piessure 41f the impost which the necessity of the case
alesnanclekeeiluti-instance, facilities might he created for
444:eX,theeteadtialAdersiPtion of the tithes, the sums to be pro-
;'4 ,started lay such redemption being applied to the tot mation of
fund fur theAsiiitratenance of the clergy of the Irish
Church. I lieliezeiteliwill not, at the present moment, be
i-Contended thai wh....4lave any time to lose—l believe it
be admittia iketi the emergency is pressing in the
• -