The Sun.
London, England, 1831-06-25 00:00:00

BANKRUPTS.

WILLIAM RICHARDSON, Clementhorpe, York, tanner,
July 11, at seven, 12, and August 5, at eleven, at the Falcon-inn,
Mic. legate, York. Williamson, Gray's Inn square, London ;
Blanchard and Richardson,° York
WILLIAM WILLIAMS, St. Woollos, Monmouthshire,
coal-merchant, July 7,8, and Aug. 5, at eleven, at the Rummer
Tavern, Bristol. APDonnell and Mostyn, Usk ; Prothero and
Phillips, Newport, Monmouthshire.
CHARLES BERNARD, Calcutta, merchant, July I, 8, and
Aug. 5, at two, at the Court of Commissioners. Tilleard and
Miller, Old Jewry.
DENNETT LODGE, Poole, ironmonger, July 4, 11, and
Aug. 5, at eleven, at the London '1 avern Inn, Poole. Aldridge,
Poole ; Cuvelje Great James-street, Bedford-row.
JOHN HARRISON HARRALL, Leeds, fruiterer, July 5,
6, and Aug. 5, at eleven, at the Kingston Hotel, Kingston-upon.
Hull. Rosser and Son, Gray's Inn-place ; Frost, Hull.
WILLIAM BASSET, Dean street, Soho, builder, July 1,5,
and Aug. 5, at eleven, at the Court of Commissioners. Bird,
Adam-street, Adelphi.
SAMUEL HODSON, Glossop, Derbyshire, cotton-spinner,
July 9, 11, at nine, and August 5, at two, at the Albion °Hotel,
Manchester. Adlington, Gregory, and Faulkner, Bedford-row;
Morris and Owen, Manchester.
ISAAC MARSH, Tutbury, Staffordshire, grocer, July 5, 12, at
eleven, and August 5, at twelve, at the Court of Commissioners.
Amory ?aid Coles Throgmorton-street.
WILLIAM GILES, Lad-lane, ribbon-warehouseman, July
1, at one, 5, and Aug. 5, at eleven, at the ethirt of Commis-
aoners. Fisher, Walbrook.
RICHARD JOHNSON, Liverpool, painter, July 22, 23, and
Aug. 5, at one; at the Clarendon-rooms, Liverpool. Howson,
Prescot ; Chester, Staple-Inn, London.
TIMOTHY DOBSON, sett., JOHN DOBSON, and TIMO-
THY DOBSON, jun., City-road, carpet-manufacturers, July 7,
at five, 8, and Aug. 5, at ten, at the White Hart Inn, Hartle-
bury, Worcester. Dangerfield, Lincoln's-inn-fields; Brinton,
Kidderminster.

GEORGE LLOYD, Stingo-lane, Marylebone, brewer, June
2S, July 8, at three, and Aug. 5, at two, at the Court of Commis-
sioners. Reynolds, Flemming's-street, Kingsland-road.
JOHNS HENRY, and GEORGE BUGG, Spalding, Lincoln-
shire, bankers, July 6,7, and August 5, at eleven, at the White
Hart. Inn, Spalding. Williams, Verulam-buildings, Gray's-Inn
London • Bonner, Spalding.
WILLIAM PEATT LITT, JOHN JOSEPH HARRISON,
and WILLIAM HARRISON, Lime-street, merchants' July
8, 15, at eleven, and August 5, at twelve, at the Court of Com-
missioners. Haddan, Gatton, and Haddan, Angel-court, Throg-
rnorton-street.
DIVIDENDS.
G. East, Hanover-place, Regent's Park, bookseller, July 15, at
ten, at the Court of Commissioners ; F. B. King, Church-lane,
Whitechapel, grocer, July 5, at eleven, at the Court of Commis-
sioners ; W. Down, church-passage, Guildhall, Blackwell Hall-
factor, July 5, at ten, at the Court of Commissioners; W. K.
Hodges,, .Minbries, linen-draper, July 15, at twelve, at the Court
of Coihthissioners ; J. Sainthill, Pickle Herring, Tooley-street,
Vrenchtburr-merchant, July 15, at eleven, at the Court of Corn-
miasioners ; W. Hayden, Oxford-street, silk-mercer, July 15, at
eleven, at the Court of Commissioners ; T. and J. Tait, Dover_
road, Southwark, brewers, July 19, at eleven, at the Court of
Commissioners ; J. Herbert and C. Mayo, London, warehouse-
men, July 22, at nine, at the Court of Commissioners ; J. B.
Ruspini, Pall-mall, medicine.vendor, July 22, at nine, at the
Court of Commissioners ; J. Littlewoud, Mortimer-street, Mary_
lebone, butcher, July 19, at ten, at the Court of Commissioners ;
N. Sandford, Salford, Lancashire, bleacher, July 20, at nine, at
the York Hotel, Manchester ; W. Toghill, ChaltOrd, Gloucester_
shire, clothier, July 16, at one, at the Rummer Tavern, Bristol ;
J. Watkinson, Manchester, cal .c ..t,rinter, July 19, at two, at the
Palace Inn, Manchester ; J. thisher, Stamford, u oolstapler,
July 26, at eleven, at the Court-house, Leeds ; G. and R. Hilton,
Manchester, merchants, July 23, at nine, at the Star Inn, Man-
chester ; W. Penny, Titchfield, Hampshire, brewer, July 19, at
twelve, at the Bugle Inn, Titchfield ; R. Claridge, Oddington,
Gloucestershire, farmer, July 18, at ten, at the King's Head Inn,
Northleach, Gloucestershire ; W. Shave, Colchester, innkeeper,
Sept. 21, at eleven, at the Red Lion Inn, Colchester ; A. Aaron,
Plymouth Dock, Devonshire, silversmith, July 15, at eleven, at
Hannaford's Commercial Inn, Plymouth.
CERTIFICATES, Jut's' 15.
W. Pilcher, Deptford, brewer ; R. Barber, Walsall, Stafford-
shire, wine-merchant • J. J. Smith, Liverpool, broker ,• B. Hellas,
Oisett, Yorkshire, cloth-merchant ; T. Barlow, Pendleton, Lan-
o ,
erinercia ; J. Lewis and
PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED.
merchants cashire, calico-printer; J. Brown, Fleet-market, grocer; 1)
Bagley, Debdale House, Staffordshire, pig-iron-maker ; S.
f3J°°keas Bali's
Pond,
J. A. Worry, Islington,Lo, donnurseryman.
J. W. Davis, Great Surrey-street, Blacktliarg-road, linen-drapers;
It Curtis and J. Ellis, Carshalton, Surrey, bleachers ; H. Stokes
and G. Titterton, Cornhill, stationers; J. Cox and R. A. Gorell,
Bradford, Yorkshire, linen-drapers ; M. Baker and S. Rush-
firth, Leeds, milliners; J. and 'W. Woolley, Change-alley, City, j
stock-brokers ; J. Jones and R. Adams, Greenwich, bricklayers ;
J. Q. 5W41116911 and R, Graham, Liverpool, drapers.

. 1

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF LORDS, JUNE 24.

The House met at Half-past Three o'clock, the Earl of
SHAFTESBURY, in the absence of the LORI, CHANCIILLOR,
took his seat on the Woolsack, when the Earl of LEITRIM
on being created a Peer of the'United Kingdom, by the
tide of Baron CLEMENTS, was introduced by Lord Hoz.-
LATCO and Lord PLUNKETT, and took the oaths and his
seat. . .

The Bishop of LONDON presented petitkns from dif-
ferent parts of his Diocese, for the abolition of slavery.
The Earl of SHREWSBURY presented twenty-four
petitions froth different parts of Ireland, for a repeal of the
Legislative Union. The Noble Earl entered into a
lengthened detail of the distress existing in the Sister
Kingdom, and expressed great gratification that the best
endeavoties of his Nlaiesty's Ministers were being exerted
to eta,. its effects. The Noble Earl also presented fors
petitions in fdt'on't of tlt 1146 rm Bill, entirely concurring
in the prayer of the rstitions. He also presented petitions
suainst the Bible Society.
The Marquis of sAusuiffiv gave notice that on
Tuesday ne•zt he should move for taking into omideration
the third repott of the Poor Law Commissioners.
COMPLAINT DI LORD PLUNKETT.

Lord PLLINKETT rose to call their Lordships' attete'
tion to the subject which he had adretted to yesterday,
regarding a statement which bad appeared in the news-
paper* tffect:ng him. It was very painful for him to tin so,
but he considered that I.e should •he wanting to himself and
the high situation which he held, if he suffered such
statements as hail been made to pass without °ban-ration.
He wished•it to be clearly understood that he was not coming
forward with any complaint against any part of the other
branch of the Legislature, nor was he coming forward
wi:h any complaint against any newspaper; all that he
wished to do was fully end explicitly to deny in Coto the
charge which had been ttt.de against him. The charge
that hail been made against him was, that he bad offered
the situation of Assistant Barrister to an individual in con-
sideration of election services, and. that in consequence of
that upwards of thirty votes bad been procured; and another
charge was, that Ife had promised to get orders for two in-
dividuals in the Church fur the same consideration. Recon-
sidered that if be had been guilty of such gross abominations
he should be unworthy of the high honour of a seat in
their Lordships' House. The charge, if not denied, would
nor only disable him as a public functionary, hut would
disparage him for ever as a gentleman. The charge had
been brought forward, as represented in the Newspapers,
on the first day of the Session by a highly respectable gentle-
man, representing a county in Ireland ; it had been b►'ought
forward, not merely as an impeachment of tie individCals
but as an attack on the Government of the country. Such
being the case, he felt himself called upon to assert that it
was a most gross and libellous falsehood, and that he was
entitled to deal with it, not merely as a libel against an in-
dividual, but as a part of that system which had been
adopted by those who opposed his Majesty's Government.
—(Herr.) It was an utter disregard of truth or decency.
That he, in common with others of his Majesty's Govern-
ment, felt interested in the late elections in Ireland, was
not to be denied, but that he had ever used undue influ-
ence in those elections was totally false; even when
persons (which had been the case) had come to
him and asked him to give them his advice, he had
uniformly refused it. The charge against him was, his
promising the situation of assistant barrister to a gentle-
man of the bar for his support of 30 votes at the late
election in favour of a friend to the Government. This
was totally without truth; and he thought that rm
Noble Lord who heard him, belieyed that he was
capable of ❑sing his influence in such a way. The
Noble Marquis, in a communication which he (Lan
Plunkett) did hot consider confidential, informed him, that
after the individual who had made the charge had been
answered, he said, " I did not know the facts, but I was
told them." Now, he thought all their Lordships would
in candour admit, that if a person were to be allowed first
to make a direct charge, and then to say that he had only
been told so, no man's character would be safe. But by
whom had the story been told ? The individual who bad
made the st itement in another place had, it seemed, heard,
in a club-house, some one, be knew not whom, say that
a particular person, a—
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY observed, across
the table, that he bad really considered th,t part of his
communication with the Noble and Learned Lord confi-
dential.

Lord PLUNKETT said, in that case he would not
utter another word on that part of the subject. He would
merely state, therefore, that no situation of Assistant-Bar-
rister had been vacant, and that if it had been so, he was
not the first person to whom an application ought to have
been made. He really was glad the Noble Marquis had
prevented his stating any name; but he should have
mentioned that of an individual whom be had never
seen but in the Court of. Chancery, and with
whom he bad never had any communication. So
far with respect to himself; and now with respect to
the members of his family. It would be rather
hard if no person connected with him were to have a right
to exert himself in any manner in which he thought fit to
do so.—(Hear, hear.) He had six sons, grown up to man-
hood ; and undoubtedly they all did exert themselves dur-
ing the late election. They had lived in Dublin many
years, hail done many acts of kindness, which rendered
them esteemed, and had, by their exertions, materially con-
tributed to the success of the friends of Government; and
he should have been ashamed of them if they had not done
.so.—(Hear, bear.) But those young men were as inca-
pable as the Noble Marquis of any mean and dishonourable
act; and such act they would have committed, had they,
in the pursuit of their just object, held out any undue mo-
tive.—(Hear, hear.) What was the duty of the individual
by whom the charge had been made ? If Le believed it, to
bring it forward like a than : if nor, and he had a single
particle of candour in his n tture, he would—
Lord ELLENBOROUGH spoke to order. The Noble
and Learned Lard would at once see that it was disorderly
to dwell upon the conduct in another House of any Mem-
ber of it.

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM put it to his Noble and
Learned Friend, whether it could be necessary lor him to
proceed any further ? Was there an individual in the
country who knew an)thing of his Noble and Learned
Friend, and who could believe that there was the slightest
foundation for the imputations which had been cast upon
him.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord PLUNKETT expressed his sense of the Noble
Duke's kindness. To those who knew him as his Noble
Friend (if he might be allowed so to call him) did, be
might rest his answer to the charge on the character of
his whole life. But there was something adhesive in im-
putations of this nature. When a Member of Parliament
made a charge against any one, it was difficult to remove
the impression that he had some ground for such a pro-
ceeding. However he repeated, that the statement which
had appeared in the newspapers, conic from what quarter
it might, was devoid of all truth and colour. Into the
details of the slander lie (Lord Plunkett) was not bound
to go ; but he now declared, upon the honour of a gentle-
man and a Judge, that the charge was calumny and slander
front beginning to end.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY thought the Noble
and Learned Lord had shown an extraordinary susceptibi-
lity ; for, if he had read an account of what bad occurred
on the occasion alluded to, he would have found that an
explanation had been called for, and that his Hon. Friend
stated that he brought no charge whatever against the
Lord Chancellor of Ireland. His Hon. Friend stated dis-
tinctly to a Right Hon Gentleman that he bad misunder-
stood him ; and that what lie had said was, that he had
beard the circumstances from various persons, but that he
felt he ought not to give up their names, lest he should
expose them to the vengeance of such a Government as the
present.—(A laugh.) In the teeth of the declaration of
his Hon. Friend, that he made no charge against the Noble
and Lest fled Lord, the Noble and Learned Lord came
forward and said, that the accusation was false, scanda-
lous, libellous, and so on. It might be that there were no
grounds for the statement. If, however, his Hon. Friend
thought that there were, he (the Marquis of Londonderry)
was bound to believe him sincere ; for he had as high an
opinion of the honour of his Hon. Friend as that of any
Lord Chancellor whatever.—(Loud laughter.)
The Earl of ELDON said that his Noble and Learned
Friend had done complete justice to his own character.,
although it did not require any effort. He could assure
his Noble and Learned Friend that the charges which had
been brought against him (Lord Plunkett) were of a vet),
trifling description compared with those which he (Lord
Eldon) had formerly to endure.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY repeated, that if
their Lordships read the papers they would see the t xpla-
ueddleyr that
n ition which he had quoted, and that his Hon. Friend
disclaimed bringing any charge against the Noble and
Learned Lord. His Hon. Friend had merely stated what
bad been told him. He was perfectly sure, however, t(l3ra.t.
his Hon. Friend had some grounds for hisshattaceek—n
der, order, order.)—inasmuch as statements b
e°ted in bringin • individuals to
which in iuch cases always exis
that his H
this facts.- - fla'svotild finish by saying an.
ee ::, himself
the bound
11 i *cu l it;
demied waking any
chugs;
Fat tha ni
nmdc,,e
ibaanlutdhthi
isaosttui
engt.chhptei haeseiha.smditedo:t;n:uno
,cte..
me opts
completely

reports and ininouts otn different individuals on the

subject
Lord ELLENBOROUGH heartily disbelieved V e se-
rum:diem. • The conduct of the Noble and Learned Lord,
during the whole, period of his life, had been such as not
to of ,rd the slightest ground in his mind for a doubt upon
the subject. TSut the Noble and Learned Lord should re.-
collect, that although he (Lord Plunkett) knew that what
had been stated with respect to his conduct was perfectly
untrue, the individual by whom the statement had been
made could not know that of his own knowledge. At the
same time he must admit, and indeed declare that it was
not consistent with the duty of any man to say that which
might be injurious to the character of another, before
he was well assured of the grounds on which he pro-
eeeded. He considered it to be a duty incumbent on
the individual in question to investigate the mat-
ter further, and then distinctly to declare whether or
not be adhered to the charge. If he found that be
had been misinformed, be was bound to say so;
if not, he was then, as a gentleman, and a Member
of Parliament, hound distinctly to bring forward a
public charge. While, however, in common candour to-
wards the Noble and. Learned Lord, he expressed this
opinion, he must observe that he regretted that in the
heat of debate the Noble and Learned Lord had charm:-
t,rised the statement made by a Member of the House of
Commons as part of a system of misrepresentation re-
sorted to by those who were in political opposition to his
'Majesty's present . Government. He roust say, not for
himself alone, but for all with whom he had the honour to
net, not only that they did not resort to any system of mis-
representation, but that they bad not been guilty of any
misrepresentation whatever. Although he was sorry to be
or:lined to give so pointed a contradiction to the expression
of the Noble and Learned Lord, yet knowing something of
what was done by those on that side of the House, he felt
bound to say, that whoever asset ted that they resorted to
a system of misrepresentation, in the words of the Noble
and Learned Lord, asserted a colourless falsehood,
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY, in answer to one
of the observations which bad just fatten from the Noble
Lord observed, that every man roust be guided by his
own sense of duty. His Hon. Friend was quite as fit a

judge of what he ought to do as some othrr persons, and
perhaps fitter.—Here the conversation dropped.

TITHES.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY laid on the Tab!e
of the House, a Bill for the Regulation of' thg Composition

of Tithes.—Re id a first time.

Lord DACRE expressed his intention of submitting to
their Lordships a Bill, which would be in a manner sup-
plementary to that of the moat Rev. Prelate, to provide
means for the equitable commutation of tithes.
The Earl of MALMESBURY observed, that both these
Bills involvei questions of immense importance. He
trusted that they would not be pressed in the present tea-
aims, ht' that ample time would be given for the deliberate
cons%deration which they would most undoubtedly require.
E•,rl GREY remarked, that the subject to which the
Bills in question referred was not only of immense im-
p,,rtance, hut of immense difficulty. It certainly was of
the greatest importance to endeavour to establish some
system respecting tithes (on the rights connected with
which no one could entertain any doubt), which might
have the effect of remedying the evils which were pro-

(limed by the present system. It was a subject to which
he would give his most attentive consideration. A com-
mutation of tithes, if it could be effected so as to settle
the question finally and for ever, would certainly he most
desirable. But, adverting to the extraordinary difficulties
which would in the first instance oppose themselves to any
satisfactory arrangement, the bias of his mind was to the
belief, that the best way of ultimately striving at a satis-
factory commutation of tithes would be in the first place,
to adopt such a Bill as that which had just bren presented
by the most reverend Prelate for facilitating their compo-
sition. By the working of that Bill it would be seen
what further proceeding might be advante.geously adored,
Both of the Bills in question were of so much importance,
and their provisions must be attended with so much diffi-
culty and complication, that he certainly very much
doubted the expediency or practicability of carrying either
of them through Parliament (luring the present Session.
—(Hear, hear.) Perhaps the best course to pursue
would be for the most Reverend Prelate and the Noble Lord
so state the nature anti tendency of the proposed arrange-

ments, and then to leave the subject to be considered in
the interval before the commencement of another Session of
Parliament. It was not for the sake of delay, or for the
purpose of avoiding difficulties, even in the present Ses-
sion, when so many important matters were to be dis-
cussed, that he threw out this suggestion ; but because he
was convinced that the postponement would enable their
Lordships to come to a more satisfActory and effective
conclusion upon the subject. There was one objection-
;chic part of the present system of Church preferment,
which he thought would, among other matters, be well
worthy of the most Rev. Prelate's attention—he meant
the system of a plurality of livings. It gave him sincere
pleasure to see a meisure of improvement of this descrip-
tion originate where undoubtedly all measures of a similar
character ought to originate; and he trusted that there
would be no indisposition on the part of any of the heads
of the Church to such a Reform as went! not be incon-

sistent with their principles. He and the House were
touch indebted to the most Rev. Prelate. He repeated
that he would give the subject his most attentive conside-
ration, and be should be most happy if he found that he
could conenr in a measure which, if it proved a satisfac-
tory one, would be pregnant with the highest benefits,
both to the Church itself, and to the community at large.
Lord DACRE observed that this measure would by no
means be opposed to the B;11 introduced by the most Rev.
Prelate. As to passing it or not this Session, that of
course must depend on their Lordships. Ile hoped he
was not pertinacious; but still he was desirous to lose as
little time as possible.
SCOTCH DIVORCE.

The Earl of ELDON introduced the Bill to settle the
law on the subject of Scotch divorces in cases of English
marriage!. It was the same Bill wtich he lied laid on the
table in the course of the last Parliament, in behalf of the
Earl of Lauderdale. It was highly important, as he stated,
that the law on this subject should be settled. At present,
if a party or couple who had been married in England
wanted to get divorced without delay, they scent to Scot-
land, and on residing there fur forty days, they became so
far domiciled as to enable them to apply to the Scotch
Commissary Court for a divorce ; and the Scotch Coln t
claimed the jurisdiction to grant a divorce a tinculu ma-
trimonii. But it had been determined, in solemn argu.
meat, by all the Judges of England, that an English mar-
riage could nothe set aside except by Act of Parliament ; and
in a case where a man got a Scotch divorce in the way which
be had mentioned, and then married again, he was indicted
for bigamy and convicted, and sentenced to seven years'
transportation. It was highly desirable that such a conflict-
ing state of law, on one of the most important of subjects,
should not he allowed to exist any longer. He would enter
wore fully into the subject on the second reading of the
Bill ; and in the meantime he hoped their Lordships would
allow it to be read a first time.
The Bill was read a first time.
FOREIGN POLICY.

The Earl of ABERDEEN rose to call the attention of
the House to the Foreign Policy of Ministers, as explained
in the Speech front the Throne and in the Address to the
King. It had been his intention to avail himself of the
answer to the Address, which was brought down the day
before, to advert to the topics to which he was now about
to draw their Lordship' attention, but thought it right to
postpone his observations till a Noble Earl (Grey) shou'd
be present, whom he now saw in his pace. He was un-
wilLng to enter upon the subject during the long discus-
sion which took place the other night on the various topics
touched upon in the Speech fr.-m the Throne and in the
Address, more especially as the matter of his observations
was rather foreign to those points which their Lordship
appeared most disposed to discuss on that occasion. It
was, indeed, natural, that when the Constitution was
threatened with such extensive changes, their Lordship'
ehiet attention should be directed to the domestic concerns
and condition of the country. But still there were topics
eonne
cte!l with our foreign policy which touched very
nearly the character and the intere,ts of the country, and it
was of great importance that these should not be lost sight
of, but, on the contrary,ofe kept prominently in vies. Minis-
ters, at the titneg upon their offices, had ostenta-
tiously held out the preservation of peace as one gran !
principle and object of their policy ; but certainly we could
not look around at was at present passing in
Europe without seeing cau,efo considerable apprehen-
sion that the general peace could not be preserved. No
doubt his Majesty's Ministers desired Their decla-
rations on that head, and the ostentatiTsce.
they were put forth, proved that they werem resolvedannern
Cnmten
t‘O-hpihrce..
set Ye peace, if peace could possibly be preserved consistently
with a due regard to the honour and interestosftlil7
country ; and perhaps they also proved that they felt that
there was great danger of being forced into a war. Whether
it was prudent or proper in the Ministers to make theSe de-
might perh ips be doubted;
el tr.:thins in such a manner,
but be the policy of the Ministers as pacific as they pleased,
it could not be more pacific than the policy of their Prede-
cessors. If there was one thing more than another which
rendered the want of the services of the Noble Du
the
ke
(Wellington) near him a loss to his country, it was
powerfu
l influence which he had for the preservation of
peace by the character which he here in the estimation of

foreign Powers. In this w.,y the Noble buke bail unri-
valled advantages for the preservation of peace over au)
other man that could be appointed to the situation of Prime
Minister. The agreement among the great Powers of
Europe certainly did afford the best ground of hope of the

preservation of peace, from the removal of mud' of the

- . - -
causes of war. His Majtsty's Alihisters had not told their
Lordships much about what had been done in the con-

ferenceS on the subject of Belgium, but they had told them
what was the principle on which they were conducted.
principle, they said, on which the bottfcrentes bad been con-
ducted, has been that $5l tint interfering with the right of the
people or Belgium to regulate their internal affairs, and to
establish their Government according to their own views of
what may be most conducive to their future welfare and
independence, under the sole condition, sanctioned by the
practice of nations, and founded on the printiples of public

law, that in the eierciae of thtt undoubted Eight the se

curity of neibghbourihg States should not be endangered.
This principle had his entire concurrence. But, at the
same time, he might say that this eras to more than the
principle which bad In Modem times been always re-
cognised by C.Mlized nations. There was no State in
Eurts..p which pretended to interfere in the internal affair,
of another, unless with a view to its own security. The
five great Powers had before done exactly that which was
now doing at the conferences of London. But still he
might say that this same condition or princ'ple of inter-
ference for settnity was a very elastic one, and knight be

alleged as a ground for interference to a very great extent.
Suppose the Belgians thought proper to establish a Repub-
lican instead of a Monarthital form of Government, would
this be reckthed consistent with the security of the
neighlftring Powers ? The French Government, too,
professed to act on the principle of non-interference ; but
yet, he would a sk whether it had hot interfered so as to
prevent the Belgian fivm choosing a certain Prince for
their King, because that Prince happened to he a son of a
Gel:feral who had become Emperor of the French ? He
would ask whether, after they had actually nominated a
Sovereign, they had not been prevented from Navin; that in-
dividual for their Sovereign, from an apprehension enter-
.

tained at the conference; that, if he became the Belgian
Sovereign, the security of the neighbow ing Powers would be
endangered? He was far from blaming the proceedings of the
five Powers at the conferences. He only meant to say that
this principle of non-interference was one of a very accom-

. .
modating nature, and was what might be called, accord-
ing to a phrase that was very much in fashion at present,
a quasi non-interference. But it was not for the purpose
of animadverting on the principle thit he now intruded
himself on the attention of their L9rdship4. He had,
however, very serious apprehensions about the result of
these conferences. He very much dreaded that the con-

sequences would be highly injurious to the peace of Euro-
pean society. He found the five Powers employed in draw-
ing up, in a summary manner, articles of separation be-
tween Belgium and Holland. He did not mean to sty
that these articles were unjust ; but so it was, that the five
Powers had prepared nine articles of separation, which
they held out to the parties concerned as fixed and irrevo-
c,ble, and as conditions which they must adopt. The
King of the Netherlands, wishing to stand well with the
five Powers, did accept them, but the Belgians not only
did not accept but, on the contrary, returned them
with insult. Neither of the parties were present when
these terms were fixed. Ti e King of the Netherlands was
no party, although he was to lose oae half of his domi-
nions. The five Powell; were bound to keep faith with
him, and Set it SO happened that one of these irrevocable
articles had been already revoked ; and, in short, there was
reason to apprehend that these articles would still be made
the subject of endless discussion. There certainly did ap•
pear something extraordinary in these proceedings. When
the conditions were returned by the Belgians, the
five Powers at the conference fixed a particular day
on or before which they must be accepted, and the Belgian
Nlinister was called upon to accep► them within the limited

period. The Minister di-obeyed the order, and then some
proceedings followed, against which the King of the Ne•
therlands protested. All this showed that the Five Powers,
or, at least, that Great Britain, had not kept the
great interests of the King of the Netherlands sufficiently
in view. And then it was generally understood that a
Prince particularly connected with this country was to be
the future Sovereign of Belgium, if the arrangements for

that purpose could be carried imo effect; and if that
Prince should be placed in that situation, he was very ap-
prehensive that his particular connection with England
would very much endanger our future relations with Hob i
land. He considered this a matter of particular impor-
tance. He might here observe, that as the Speech and
the Address had recognised the right of the Belgians to
regulate their internal affairs in the manner which might
appear to them most conducive to their own interests and
welfare, some notice might also have b en taken of the
rights of the King of the Netherlarads. No foreign nation
was more worthy of our sympathy than Holland—a free,
enlightened, and religious people, rallying round their King
in a manner that was unparalleled even in the history of
their own country. That nation ought certainly to
have been noticed as deserving of countenance and
support —(Hear.) He would at present say no m ,re on
that head, as his of ject was merely to point out the
dangers that might he apprehended from the re oceedings
at these conferences. He proceeded in the next place to
notice the manner in which the late proce. dings with re-
gard to Portugal had been mentioned in his Majesty's
Speech, and he mill not help saying that the manner
in which these occurrences had been adverted to was 416-

ingenuous, and that the statement itself was somewha,
erroneous. " A ser4s of injeries and insults (as the
Speech stated) for which, notwithstanding repeated
remonstrances, all reparation was withheld, compelled roe
at last to enter a squadron of my Iket to appear before
Lisbon, with a pere,nptory (brined of satisfaction. A
prompt compliance with the demand prevented the neces-
sity of further measures ; bit I have to regret that I have
not yet been able to re-establish my diplomatic relations
with the Portuguese Government." Now, front this it
would appear that the injuries complained of had been
committed by the Government, and that the Government
had refused satisfaction. But that was not the case.—
The injury was not committed by the Government, and
when such sitisfection was demanded it was not refused,
although he admitted that it had been culpably delayed.—
Indeed, the satisfaction ha I been in a great measure given
before the squadron was sent out. But that most vexa-
tious delays had been interposed, he himself was perfectly
well aware. Same all nuance ought to be in ide for the
difficulties which the Portuguese Government had to con-
tend with ; and, urn the whole, he thought that the
proceedings of Ministets with tegard to Portugal had
been neither of a dignified character nor consistent with
tie alliance between the two countries. A regret was
expressed that his Majesty had not been enabled to renew
his diplomatic relations with Pot tugal ; and it appear, d
as if Ministers wished to put an end to the system
which was acted upon by the Sovereign of that
country. Now he did not stand there as the apo-
logist of the Sovereign of Portugal, but even if he
had deserved all the vituperation which had been
heaped upon him by the most absurd exaggeration, it
was not for us to pretend to dictate to him as to the mode
in which he was to conduct the internal affairs of his own
dominions. We were to look to the stability of his Go-
vernment, and to bis power to execute the treaties which
he made with us ; and as to the rest, it was for the Por-
tuguese themselves to prescribe to him how he should act,
if they chose. He bad been Sovereign of Portugal now
for three years with the full approbation of a great majo-
rity of his Portuguese subjects, and there appeared no
reasonable ground fur apprehension that he would be die-
, placed by any intetual commotion. There was no fear
of a change, for the Government possessed the affections
of the people. It was clear that it did so;. for a Govern-
ment having no support from without, could not have
existed unless it was satisfactory to the people of the
country. He Was therefore quite at a loss to comprehend
the ground of the reluctance on our part to acknowledge
that Government. It would be much better to acknow-
ledge and renew our diplomatic relations with it, instead
of persevering in our present injurious system. But he
would ask what were the relations of France with Portu-
gal ? We heard of vessels captured, of expeditions sent,
and of devastation threatened ; and he wanted to know
what seas the relation in which France and Portugal stood
with respect to each other ? These were matters which
might very seriously affect the interests of the subjects of
the Bt itisit Empire. British subjects had great privilege-
in Portugal, and great commercial advantages far exceed-
ing tho-e which they enjoyed in any other foreign country;
and what did Portugal receive in return for all this?
Protection. Portugal was to lie protected by thi
country. He did not mean to say that Portu
gal was to he protected or assisted in wagin.
an unjust vier ;• but certainly that country de-
served all just protection from us in return for the greet
commercial advantages which the British enjoyed in Per-
tat should eu
tuga. When Portugal, then, had differences with foreign
powtrs, the interests of British subjects would be se-
rouslyth affected
the ed it
understande s ohe rtehfeorsei,tuonft
situation
great n import-
oncewhici Portugal stood with reference to France. The complaints
grounds of complaint a sufficient cause
of the French might have foundation ; but were the
bound by treaties with Portugal, war? We were
Portugal there was no treaty, and they 'Vera
Rance and
only by the common law of nations ; and altehrs'ougehnFreeted
alight have sow.; reason to call for explanations, it was

lifficult to conceive that she could have any ground for
going to war with Portugal. But, at ail events, he
hoped that Ministers were duly impressed with the serious
injury which might be the consequence of thesedifferences.
He hoped that they were ready to interpose their good
offices and mediation in favour of Portugal. We were not
bound to support Portugal in an unjust war, but Portugal
had a right to our good offices and mediation. Betbre he
.quitted this part or the subject, he would advert to an-
other matter connected with Portugal. He alluded to
certain transactions which had taken place at Terceira and
the western Portuguese islands. The people of whit was
called the Refeney of Terceira, had seized a British vessel,
for the purpose of an expedition to another island. The
Captain whose vessel was seized was now in London, and
was known to have made his complaint to Government.
They had forced the Captains of other British vessels to
make an agreement with them for the purpose of a hostile
expedition into another island. The fact was undoubted.
The expedition sailed, and troopswere landed from .British
ships in the island of St. George's, and committed the
most horrible excesses, certainly much more horrible than
any that bad ever been ascribed to the present Sovereign
of Portugal. They even massacred a great number of
people in cold blood, as he was credibly informed. But
by the way, what sort of reparation was to be got here ?
Good God were these people to be allowed to carry on a
barbarous and piratical war, and to rob and plunder the
neighbouring islands with impunity? He asked again
what reparation could be got from these people for the ex-
cesses which they had committed ? These people could
not exist in their present situation without committing
acts of piracy, and they would continue to commit acts of
piracy as long as they were allowed to remain in posses-
sion of the island of Terceira. There were other subjects
to which be might justly and properly have called the
attention of his Majesty's Ministers, but he would say no
more at present, except again to ask what reparation they
expected to obtain from these people of the Berney of

Terceira?
Earl GREY—He did not find fault with the Noble
Earl for not having made his observations on our foreign
relations on the night when the Address was moved, as
there were some other topics Which more immediately
called for attention and discussion on that occasion. But

. _
still he thought it would have been better to have intro-
duced the subject of the Belgian, Dutch, and Portuguese
questions into the discussion than to have wasted the time
in talking of illuminations and broken windows, and let-
ters written by Members of Parliament to their constituents
and toasts given at dinners. The Noble Earl might have
then stated his views of the foreign policy of the Minis—
ters, and if that was not satisfactory to hisn, he ought not
to have concurred in the Address to his Majesty. There
was another preliminary observation which it might be
proper to make before be came to the consideration of the
particular points to which the Noble Earl had adverted..
He did not mean to question the right of tie Noble Eul
to discuss the foreign policy of the country or the conduct
of Ministers, and yet it was a tight that ought to be
exercised with a great deal of caution and discretion ; if
ever there was a time when that discretion was called for,

it was the present. Ministers had come into office at a
time when they had a most difficult duty to perform, and
that difficulty would be greatly increased by the agitation
of these questions. It ought to be remembered that this
was a period of great personal excitement—a period in
which popular feeling was strongly alive—a period of great
public agitation. It was a time when the greatest
jealousy was entertained. by Rations about the interference
of foreign Powers; and the minds of the people were kept
in such a state of effervescence, that a slight addition to the
causes of agitation would raise the excitement to such a

pitch as to lead them to overwhelm their own Govern•
ments. These were circumstances that ought to be con.

sidered ; and the Noble Lords on the other side ought to
take care not to manifest their hostility to the Government
in such a way a way as most seriously to endanger the
best interests of their country. In such a state of things
Ministers claimed the confidence which was nee, ssai y to
enable them to perform their duty in the manner best cal-
culated to promote the public interest ; and they hoped that
they would receive that confidence from Parliament and
from a generous public, without having the peace and
hest interests of the country put in hazard by poisonous
arrows being scattered in the dark to wound her to the
heart. He appealed then to the House, whether Minis-
ters ought net to be allowed to discharge their duties
without any premature disclosures upon the responsibility
under which they acted ? Sooner or later they must, no
doubt, give an account of their conduct, and answer for
it. In the mean time, premature disclosures would be at-
tended with nothing but mischief. The Noble Earl said
that the present Ministers had talked in a most ostenta-
tious manner of their desire to preserve the peace of the
country. He certainly did venture to say that the pre-
servation of peace was a great object with Ministers, but
lie was not aware that he had said so in any ostentatious
manner. As to the superior advantages which the Noble
Duke had enjoyed for tle purpose of the preservation of
peace, he certainly did not mean to enter into any comparison
of the merits or demerits, advantages or disadvantages, of
the present Government as compared with the last; but
while he acknowledged the great services of the Noble
Duke in the field, lie certainly bad no great opinion of the
services which the Noble Duke had rendered as a nego-
dater. In his opinion, the difficulties and dangers among
which they were now placed arose from the very errone-
ous principles on which the nations of Europe had been
settled at the close of the war. It was by the unfirrtu.
nate diplomacy of that period that the seeds were sown
of those agitations which had now sprung up in so fertile
a crop. This was no new opinion of his, for it was the
opinion which he had all atong entertained and stated. But
still his Majesty's Ministers did entertain good hopes that
they would be enabled to preserve the peace of tire country.
Having now disposel of these preliminary questions, he
would proceed to answer some of the Noble Lord's ob-
servations with respect to Belgium. To the principle on
which the conferences on the subject of the affairs of that
country had been conducted, the Noble Earl- (Aberdeen)
expressly stated that he had no objection. The principle
of not interfering with the right of the people of Belgium
to regulate their internal affairs, and to establish their Go-
vernment according to their own views of what may be
most conducive to their future welfare and independence,
suhject to the conditions sanctioned by the practices of na-
tions, and founded on the principles of public law ; that
in the exercise of that, their undoubted right, the security
of neighbouring States should not be endangered ; then
the principles laid down distinctly and plainly in his Ma-
jesty's Speech (ruin the Throne, the Noble Earl stated to
have his complete and entire concurrence. But then the
Noble Ertl, having thus stated his concurrence in the
principle, then proceeds to ask, what is the security to he
found for neighbouring Stares;—what tire the principles
which are to he enforced so that their rights may not he
endangered?—(Hear.) Being thus - questioned by the
Noble Earl, Ire would say at once, without hesitation,
that no form of internal Government which a nation
might choose to adopt could, in his opinion, have that
effect, or justify the interference of other and neighbouring
States. There might, he would admit, be some danger to
the established institutions of other States, if the Belgians
determined to establish a republic ; but he was prepared to
say at once, and he gave tire Noble Earl all the advantage
he felt he might derive from it, that if the Belgians had
resolved to place- themselves under a republican form of
Government, he for one never could have given his con-
sent to any interference for the purpose of preventing
them.—(blear, hear, hear.) Undoubtedly, all nations
• had a right to choose their Sovereign, or the form of
Government under which they choose to place themselves,
witeout the least controul or attempt at dictation on the
part of others ; but, like all other rights, even this power
placed in nations was subject to limitations and restrictions.
'Tuffs uteres ui aliena non heelas was a maxim in private
life which must be considered applicable also to the affairs
of nations.—(Hear, hear.) This was a principle which
had been acted on over and over again in the history of
Europe. To go no further, he might ask on what else
were founded the wars of the Succession? Wiry the
whole of the long contests of that period were founded
on the principle that the Crowns of France and Spain
should not be allowed to devolve on the same head, so as
to create a predominance of strength which would en-
danger the integrity of other States, and disturb the ne-
cessary balance of power in Europe. It was an attention
to this principle which had regulated the proceedings with
respect to religion. The people of that country were at
liberty to choose whom they pleased ; but it was required
of them by the principles of international law, that they
should not make choice of a Sovereign whose elevation
might affect the safety of other States, or tend u:timately
to affect the interests and the tranquillity of Europe.--
(Hear, hear ) Now he really must say that in all the
propositions and arrangements of the Government with
respect to the settlement of Belgium, nothing had come to
his knowledge, nor had he seen anything prepared in vio-
lation of the principles which in these matters regulated
r.lse position of nations. The Noble Earl had, however,
stated a variety of other objections to the course pursued
oy the Government, and the manner in which they were
thus brought before the public formed, he (Lord Grey)
conceived, another and still stronger proof of the difficul-
ties and embarrassments which those engaged in these
aegociations had to surmount in their progress to a satis-
factory conclusion. At present he must, as he bad .sald
eefore, content himself with begging to defer any further
explanations until the negociations were brought to a con-

lusion. When that time came, whether those negot ia-
Lions terminated, as be hoped they would, with com-
plete success, in the establishment of the peace
of Europe on a permanent basis, or whether they
unhappily had a different result, be was bound to ten-
der an account of the proceedings of the Govern-
ment, and would he prepared to explain and to justify,
and defend the course it bad pursued. There was, how-
ever, a point of of taken by the Noble Lord which
he could not allow to pass without some ob,ervation. The
Noble Earl, in the course of his speech, intimated an opi-
nion that the Government had not attended sufficiently to

he interests of one of the Sovereigns of Europe (the King

of Holland.) In compliance with the declaration he bad
already made, he would not follow the Noble Earl into the
question of whether the Powers represented in the con-
ferences had or had not attended sufficiently to the int--
rests of the King of Holland in the negotiations between
his Majesty and the Belgians ; but he might state, that
the perfect preservation ti the right and privileges and in-
dependence of the kingdom of Holland was an object of
the first importance to this country, not only on account
of the long and intimate connexion which bad subsisted
between England and Holland, to the great advantage of
both), but also, on account of the advantages which all
Europe derived from the integrity and independence of
Holland, as a State, in the maintenance of the general
system, which it had been found conducive to the general
welfare to support.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever form of
Government the Belgians might ul imately adopt, he be-
lieved that it would be found that the perfect security of

the kingdom of Holland had occup;ed ita full share of the
attention of the other Powers of Europe; although he

certainly did hope that neither party woul.l continue to
make too material an insistance on points which might
stand in the way of a speedy-and satisfactory arrangement
of the matters in dispute.—(Hear, hear.) Sonic allusions
ba,l been made to the Prince 011 Wl.= it was, at present,

contemplated to bestow the Crown of Belgium. On that
point he would say a very few words. With that high
sense be entertained of the Prince of Saxe Coburg's cha-
racter—with that confidence which he felt in his good
sense, his moderation, his strength of mind, his abilities
for governing, and his enlightened views of policy—he
was laJur.d to declare, that if the negotiations terminated
in the elevation of the Prince to the Throne of Bel-
gium, it would be a most fortunate circum-
stance for the country which be would he called on to
govern.—(Hear, hear.) That course had been adopted
by the Belgians, independent however of us, or any in•
fluence exercised by us. He thought that they had made
a good choice when they elected the Prince ; but the
choice was mask in perfect independence of the Govern-
ment of England, or of its exertions to carry the resolu-

tion into effect.—(Hear.) And no one word as to the
danger which might be apprehended from the feelings or
prejudices of the Prince as a Sovereign. These appre-
hensions of danger might in his (Eirl Grey's) opinion, be
very safely discharged from the minds of the Belgians;
for he was satisfied that the Prince, if circumstances
turned out so as to enable him to accept the throne of Be!-

gium, would prove himself neither a French nor an Eng-
lish, but a true Belgian Sovereign, anxious only to pro-
mote the welfare of Belgium, and sensible that he was
charged with the duty of maintaining its interests, and
supporting its power and importance and independence in
the general system of Europe.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Some
observations had been made with respect to the conduct of

the British Plenipotentiary disobeying the instructions o
the powers of the conference. On that subject he would
not enter now, for the reasons he had already stated, as
well as others ; but thus much he would say, that the
French Plenipotentiary had felt it necessary and expedient
to adopt the same course as the English ; and that he be-
lieved, when the matter came to he investigated at the
proper time, it would he most satisfactorily explained.
Thus murk would add, that a more honourable, more
enlightened, more ta'ented Nobleman, or one who had
proved himself better qualified to conduct a difficult and
delicate negociation, never was employed in the service of
his country.—(Hear.) He would say, moreover, that lie
and the Government were perfectly satisfied with him con-
duct in tl.e matter to which the Noble Earl referred ; and
iF he had been guilty of some disobedience, he had taken
the re-ponsibility- of that act on himself, under very diffi-
cult circumstances, and with the hest possible motives;
and he had acted in the emergency, which he thought
rendered it justifiable, with that firmness and discretion
which became the representative of a great power on such
a trying occasion.—(Hear.) He now came to the severer
part of the charges of the Noble Earl ; be meant that
part in which he introduced some comments on the decla-
rations with respect to Portugal in his Majesty's Speech ;
and affirmed his belief, that the assertions of the Speech
were not true—that they were not borne out by the facts.
--(Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl says, that there were
no series of insults and injuries received at the hands of
the Government of Portugal which could justify the course
adopted by the Government. He (Lord Grey) had heard
this with the more surprise, because, if he recollected right,
some of the Noble Earl's own despatches had spoken of
both insults and injuries received from the Government of
Portugal.—( Hear, hear.) Surely the many violations of
treaties— the impcs:tion of duties cont ary to express sti-
pulations between the two nations—the inflicting illegal
fines en British subjects—and the arbitrary and oppressive
conduct of the police, who derived its authority directly
from the Government—surely these- and other outrages,
with all demands of restoration of satisfaction respectively
refused, formed a sufficient justification for the measures
at last adopted by the Government of this country. But
then the Noble Earl seemed to be of opinion that repara-
tion was not refused. That was not, however, the ex-
piession used in the Speech. The word was withheld.—
(Lord Aberdeen said across the table, that he used the ex-
pression culpably delayed, but not refused.) He took the
expression of the Noble Earl,and was prepared to show that
all satisfaction had been rot only culp (bly delayed, but al-
together withheld, until a peremptory demand for that
purpose was sent out to Lisbon, with the means of en-
forcing it in the event of it refusal, and all further Dego-
ciations or complaint rendered thereby unnecessary. The
Noble Earl, however, remarked on the fact that the British
Government had not since that time been enabled to
re-establish its friendly relations with that of Por-
tugal ; and he asked, if that event coal not take
plait: at present, when could they hope it would come
to pass, when it was well known that the sovereignty
of l)on Miguel had been now for neatly three years
more safe than any other in Europe, as it must be manifest
to all, that the present ruler of Portugal could not hate
continued to maintain his authority it he did not possess
the affections of his subjects?—(Hear, hear.) The Noble
Eid observed, it was true that he did not stand forward as
the advocate of Don Miguel ; but yet it was something in
Earl characterised this Su-
his favouptrainevelemiat
pi clue stbleivNin''gthiaend reigning in the hearts and
affections of his subjects.—(flear, and a lugh.) The
Noble Earl called on the Government to recognise Miguel,
and establish diplomatic relations with him ; but although
the lase Government, of which the Noble Earl was a
member, had been for two years and a half in office, they
(lid not establish relations with Portugal. On the con-
trary, they distinctly stated they could not do so, but they
looked forward to the time when Miguel might, by the
passing of an Act of amnesty for political offences, enable
them to consult the interests of both countries by re-
suming their friendly relations. He (Lord Grey) recol-
lected well having, at the time this declaration was made,
pointed out the inconvenience to which it would subject
the Government in practice, if, after having recognised
Miguel on such conditions, be afterwards failed to fulfil
them. IPe pointed out to them the possibility of some
of the refugees from Terceira returning under the gua-
rantee of Great Britain, and being disappointed in their
expectations. He had pointed out the impossibility of
insisting on the performance of conditions which were to
be fulfilled in the jurisdiction of Miguel himself, and he
had been answered by the Noble Duke, as plainly as words
could convey his meaning, that, under such circum-
stances, they could employ remonstrances and friendly
advice, but would not be justified in doing anything
more. He (Lord Grey) did not mean to contend that if
the worst Government on earth was chosen by the people,
and able to fulfil the usual relations established be-
tween nations, that the Government would be justified in
refusing to establish them accordingly; but the Noble Earl
had not assumed that the Government of Miguel was ca-
pable of fulfilling these relations, for the amnesty which
formed the ground on which the Noble E trl would have
consented to recognise Miguel had not been granted to that
hour. The conduct of the police was more tyrannical
and oppressive than ever, and the prisons were crowded
with th.ir victims. He might, therefore, assume the pri-
vilege of putting to the Noble Earl the question the Noble
Earl had put to him, and ask him, under what other cir-
cumstances did he look for the power to recognise the Go-
vernment of Miguel ?—(Hear. ) :Now, one word with re-
spect to the relations at present subsisting between Portu-
gal and France. He wasg
lapnrdep aarneti Portugal,i which l tadnit that.ie h did there
were treaties between England
not subsist between Portugal and France, and that Eng
land was bound by these treaties to yield to Portugal her
countenance and assistance when an emergency required it.
He was ready, also, to admit the necessity of to eservings
for the benefit of both countries, all friendly relations with
Portugal ; but, at the same time, he denied that England
was bound by any treaty to assist Portugal in a matter
which plainly arose out of her own misconduct, in a gross
skew of justice. England had 'demanded reparation for

;njories, and when thatNsparation was, aeco4ng to the
Noble Earl, culpably delayed, it had been enforced. Im-
mediately afterwards complaints were made on the part of
the French Government of nearly similar outrages. Did
the Portuguese Government attempt to palliate those of-
'ttees or explain them? No ; on the contrary, the French
Consul, who made remonstrances and demands on the part
of his Government, was informed, that as his functions

,vere wholly commercial, and his demands related to politi-
cal matters, they could not be listened to, and no answer

would, therefore, be given. The French then proceeded,
as tie Government of this country had done before it, to

enforce its demands; and he would now ask the N:thle

Earl, whether he would have said to a Government like
that of France, and under the same circumstances, " You
are proceeding to enforce your demands against Portugal,
as we have done, but we prohibit you to do so, and will de-
cide the matter for you ?" Would that Government, be
would ask, acquiesce in such a course? Would the Govern-
ment of this country listen for a moment to such a demand
or prohibition or pretension on the part of France ?—( Hear. )
This was the dangerous position in which Portugal was
placed. The Noble Earl, however, asked if there was war
between France and Portugal ? He (Lord Grey), in an-
swer to that question, must say, that be did not consider
an order for reprisals a declaration of war ; but whether
thecourse pursued by Portugal led to war or not, he haul
no doubt, if an opportunity offered, that the Government
of this country would lose no occasion of doing everything
that could be done in the way of advice and mediation, in
order to hying about an atnicable settlement. This much
he would add, that the Government of this country never
would look w;th indifference on any event which would

affect the intei,rity or ind.pendence of Portugal ; and
trusting that the Portuguese Government would speedily
set itself right with France by offering the reparation she
was entitled to demand, he could assure their Lordships

that the Government were at all times anxious to prt serve
the faith:of treaties, and to secure the prosperity of Por-
tugal. The Noble Earl, passing to the question Ter, e:ra,
described the conduct of the Government est ddislied there
in terms on the justice of which he could not then pro-
nounce an opinion ; and complained of the attack made by
it on the neighbouring islands, and of the manner in which
it was carried on. Now did the Noble Earl mean to say that
the Government of this country was really bound to inter-
fere for the purpose of preventing that attack? The Noble
Earl spoke as if the honour of England bad been tar-
nished, by permitting the vessels of its subjects to
be seized for the conveyance of the troops on that
occasion ; and be spoke of the Government of Terceira
deriving its support from piracy. If it were true that that
Government practised piracy, is was the duty of this and
every other Government to put it down ; but he confeKed
he was icmorant of any of the events mentioned by the
Noble E 721-1, until he heard them in that House; and
having sent to the Foreign Office to inquire, he had just
received the following answer :—" A Captain of a vessel
has made representations on the subject to the Foreign
Office, but many of the facts are positively denied, and

the whole case i 3 under consideration." lie thought it

could scarcely be denied, that there was nothing in thi4
which showed that the honour and interests of England
were not steadily maintained.—(Hear, hear.) He had

now stated to their Lordships all that was is his power to
communicate, without prematurely and perniciously enter •
ing into the examination of negeciationa which were still
pending, and the issue of which might be seriously affected
by discussion in that House ; but he repeated, that lie
could not shrink from the fullest investigation, when his
duty to his Sovereign, and a due regard to the honour and
interests of the country, permitted him to enter on it.—
He imp:ored their Lordships, however, to consider the de-
licate and difficult situation in which the Government was
placed, when it required this indulgence with the elements
or revolution so spread around them, that the slightest
seark might kindle such a general conflagration as would
involve the institutions of this country and of Europe iu
the greatest hazard of ultimate d struction. One word he
would add with respect to France. He agreed with the
Noble Earl that it was of the greatest importance to the
interests of the world that the present Government of
France should be settled on a secure foundation, for he be-
lieved, in common with the Noble Eirl, that it was sin-
cerely desirous to fulfil its engagements with all other
States—to promote the prosperity of France, and to pre-
serve the peace of Europe. It was, therefore, extremely
desirous at the present moment, not to do or say anythiag
through which that Government might be either forced,
by public opinion, to adopt a different course of policy, or
overturned in its resistance to it ; for in such a misfot tune
the balance of power could no longer, from the hand into
which the Government must then fall, be effectually pre-
served, and the consequence would probably be the com-
mencement of a devastating and destructive war.—(Hear. )
Under such eicumstances, these discussions were, in his
opinion, most prejudicial, and ought, if the Government
of this country was considered worthy of any confidence,
to be carefully avoided.—( Hear. )
At the conclusion of the Noble End's speech there wete
hard and general calls for the Duke of WELLINGTON.
His Grace then rose and observed that he cert duly did not
wish to prolong the discussion, but he thought he was
bound to say one or two words in reference to the. obser-
vations cast on the policy of his Government at the time
he occupied the station now filled by the Noble E
(Grey). Before he did so, however, he would take leave
to observe that his Noble Friend (Aberdeen) was quite
justified in the course he had pursued iu commenting on
the language of the Speech from the Throne, and in
warning the Government of the dangers it incurred in
deaarting from the principles it hail laid down for itself in
the regulation of its foreign policy. The Noble Earl
(Grey) had complained of the difficulties in which he found
himself placed at the time he took office. Far be it from
hint (the Duke of Wellington) to depreciate the difficulties
of that situation, for he had experienced their full force;
but what he wished their Lordships to understand was
this, that the difficulties the Noble Earl complained of
were not due to him or any of his Majesty's servants.
They grew out of the unfortunate events of the month of
July, August, and September—events which it was
beyond the power of human foresight to prevent, except
by those who ruled in the countries where they took plate .
His Majesty's Government of that time did not, hoe ever,
applaud these events.—(Hear, hear.) They fore.aw the
difficulties and mischiefs to whirls they would give ri c.
They laid down a plats to be pursued with respect to
them, and he was gratified to be able to sty, that that
plan had been put sued by the Noble Earl and his Govern-
ment since it cline into office ; and as far as they
had hitherto gone, he might add, with the best success.—
(Hear, hear). It was impossible, however, to understand
fully the course of policy which we should pursue,
without looking beck a little at that which had hitherto
been adopted.—(Hear, bear). The policy of this country
had always been to keep Belgium out of the hands of
France, and none had advocated that course more stre•
nuously than the Noble Earl himself and the Noble Baron
(Holland) who sat behind him. His Noble Friend who
conducted the foreign relations of the country at the con-
clusion of the general peace (the late Lord Londonderry)
had taken the same view of this question, and the whole
of the negociations which he entered into, and of the
treaties he took such pains to conclude, had that object in
view as necessary to the paramount rrpcse of Europe.—
And what wits the consequence ? Why, that this country
and Europe has enjoyed since 1814, with the short interval
of war caused by the invasion of Napoleon, a longer period
of peace titan it has known almost for centuries.—( Hear,
hear.) That period of tranquillity was broken up by the
events of July in France, and of August and Septembo.
in Belgium.—(Hear.) He did not seek to qualify his
expressions with respect to these events. He would
not qualify them further than by expressing his conviction
that the situate-n of the countries which those events
affected was, at that time, the best for the people them •
selves, as well as the fittest to preserve their internal
tranquillity, and to maintain the peace of Europe.—
(Hear, hear.) Unfortunately, however, that state could
not be subsequently restored, and the Powers of Europe
being called on to interfere in Belgium, an armistice was
proposed between the parties then engaged in hostilities ;
and, at that time, commenced those difficulties which the
late Government had foreseen at the moment the events
took place. He entirely approved of all the steps taken
from that time to this, in order to give that security to
Belgium which Europe had a right to require. He en-
treated the Noble Earl to persevere in the course he had
so ably pursued ; and he implored him not to depart from
his principles, bat to act in a spirit of perfect cordiality
with France and the Allies. If he did so, there could be
no doubt that he would overcome ail difficulties, and
achieve the settlement of the affairs of Europe, with
honour to himself and the highest advantage to his
country.(Hear.) With respect to Portugal, he believed
it would not be in the power of England (however
much the injunctions of treaties and the interests of both
countries lay in the same direction) to defend her in the
manner which the existing treaties enjoined ; but lie
thought it became the duty of the Government of this
country, that all doubts respecting the acknowledgment of
the present Sovereign should be put an end to, and the
more so, as there could be no question that an invasion of
Portugal by the French would, under present circumstances,
'
involve the Peninsula in a general confltgration. He entreated
the Government to consider, too, that this would be the re-
sult at a time when Spain, as far as lie could lea, n, was
and, he believed, of ge-
neral prosperity. The question of disputed succession had
in a state of perfect tranquillity,

been for some time, a, it was will known, put an end to
by Din Pedro declaring t hat he possessed arms and re-
sources to vindicate the rights of his daughter, and now
that he no longer possessed power, and had lost
.his own
kingdom, and the prosi►ect of any attempt to recover Por-
tog it at an end, it became more then ever the duty of the
Government of this country to get over the difficulties
which had surrounded the question, by bringing Portugal
into the society of nations, and rendering her ava.l ibis far
the purposes of Europe.—(Hear, hear.) He recom-
mended the Government, therefore, to acknowledge
Miguel at once, and, by doing so, induce the other Powers
of Europ to follow their example. As to the st ite of the
Western Isles, he would merely observe, that unless some-
thing was (Witt to put an end to these practices, there
could be no security for the other Powers of Europe. He
was sorry to have troubled their Lordships at such length,
but he felt that what he had said was due to the station
he had formerly occupied. and he thanked them for their
attention.—(Herr, hear.)
The Earl of MELBOURNE laid on the table a report
on the subject of the duties of Magistrates in Ireland, and
gave notice of his intention to move, on Monday next, for
leave to bring in a Bill to revise and renew the appoint-
ment of Magistrates in that kingdom.
Adjourned at a Quarter past Eight.

HO USE OF COMMONS, JUNE 21.
At Four o'clock the SPEAKER took his seat, at which
time the House was unusually full. The gallery was

. ,
crowded with persons anxious to near the inq;ortant
question of Reform, which was fixed to ba brought on this

evening.
Several new Members were sworn in. After which the
House was occupied a considerable time in receiving pri-
vate Bills and reports of Committees (in'private Bills.
Mr. C. DUNDAS brought in a Bill for amending and'
altering the several Acts fir making navigable the river
Kennett, which was read a first and second time; also a
Bill to alter the line of the Gloucestershire railway,
which was read a first and second time.

Mr.LITTLETON brought in a Bill for settling disputed
tithes in the parish of Ashton-under-Lyne, by the pay-

went of a certain sum, which was reed a first time.

Lord SIANLEY brought in a Bill to amend and en-
large the sevcral Acts relating to the Bolton and Leigh
railway, which was read a first and second time.
Mr. JOHN FOLEY brought in a Bill for erecting a

County Ha!l, Courts of Justice, and for affording accjrn-
tnodation to the Judges of Ass,ze, in the county of Wor-

cester, which was real a first time.
Mr. EWART obtained leave to bring in a Bill for erect-

ing a new churvh at Liverpool, to be called " The Church

of St. Ilri.lret."
Mr. I'ORTMAN brought in a Bill to consolidate and
amend the laws relating to the highway 4 in England,

which was re id a first time and crdered to.be printed.
Mr. BURGE moved that an address be presented to his
Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be pleased to order
certain Bills, passed by colonial Legislatures, to be laid be-
fore the House. _

. . . .
Mr. O'CONN ELL presented a petition from son 8
parishes in Wexford, praying that their rights might
b respected in the proposed Refirm BM. The lion.

Member then presented a petition from Trate aglinst
the grant to the Kildare- street Society. The peitioners
stated that they had built Ncho44 in that town, in which

1,000 children we re being educate" gratuitously.
Mr. WM. BANKES presented a petition front the
Mayor, hurgesee:;, and householders of the borough of
Ma, thorough against the .Reforen Bill ; the petition was

agreed to at n public meeting.
Mr. LONG WELLESLEY asked the Hon. Member
whether this was the petition which was to have been
presented last Sssion.
Mr. BANKES—It is.
Mr. L. WELLESLEY observed that if he had been
aware of that, he would most certainly hive felt

•
it his duty to argil himself of some instruptions
which he had received relitivo to the manner in which

. . .
UtIA petition Lad been got up, and on its being presented
now he wEs taken entirely by surprise. ife had been
infoluid that the meeting at which this petition was got
up was concocted by some persons belonging to the Cor-
poration, awl that so far font' the petition containing the
sentiments of the inhabitants of the borough, it was di-
rectly opposed to it. lie (Mt. W.) had heard that there
was a charitable foul in that town under the controut of

the Corporation, and that many persons were threatened
to be deprived of benefit from it if tiwy did not sign the
petition. The gtestast proportion of the inhabitants of
Marloorough were decidedly in favour of Reform, and
even a very large portion of the tenantry of a Nob:e Lard,
who was suppo..d to be a proprietor of the borough, were
in favour• of the Reform Bill. He was theref ire justified
in saying that this petition did not express the sentiments
of the inhabitants of M elbarough.
Mr. W. BANKES was at a loss to conceive why the
Noble Marquis, \rho had been introduced by the Hon.
➢le:nber, was so introduced, but he must confess that he
was not surprised at it, be:anse of the calumny that had been
sn indu,triously circulated to the prejudice of the Noble
Marquis. With regard to 011 e part of the Hon. Member's
charge against this petition, the signatures themselves
were a suffi,.-ient answer to it ; it was signed by 140 of
the most opulent, if not the must respectable, inhabitants
of Mt:libitum:oi.
Oat the motion that di? petition be read, _ .

Mr. L. WELLESLEY said the Hun. Member bad
not yet given a!eply to his statement ; he begged to ask

the bon: Mewber whether he was not aware that at

the meeting at which the petition was agreed to, it was
stated that persons had been threatened with the loss
31 their share of the charitable fund if they did not sign
the petition ; and whether a person who was the bead
waiter at the great inn t Marlborough, was not
produced, to state that he had been so threatened. He
(Mr. W.) had not uttered any cedumny against the Noble
Lord alluded to, the calumny was on the other side ; in-
deed if the Hon. Member knew what he (Mr. W. ) had
stated was fact, he was guilty of more than calumny in
denying it.—(Cries of older.)
Mr. BANKES was aware that such a story wos in
circulation, but he had been informed it was entirely
false. The only fault he imputed to the Honourable
Member was, that before he mole such charges be did
not make the necessary inquiries.
The petition was real, aml ordered to be printed.-
Mr. ESTCOURT presented a petition from the Chan-
cellor; masters, and scholars of the University of Oxford,
against the Reform Bill, unless it underwent considerable
modifications. Tile petitioners stated that if the proposed
Bill was to be the same as was brought forward last sea-
' sion, it was their deliberate opinion that many of its pro-
visions were of a very dangerous tendency. They stated that
they had never withdrawn their confidence from the House of
Co:nmons; if Parliament should think it wise to alter the
system of representation in a more moderate manner they
would offer no opposition to it, but they were of opinion that
various wise laws might be introduced to abate the cor-
ruption that prevailed at the electien of Members to serve
in Parliament, but they received with alarM the reduction
or material alteration of the numbers in this House. They
also deprecated the giving the franchise to such a, huge
:lumber of persons who held small properties, and they
prayed that some more moderate alteration might be
The Hon. Member considered the petition en-
titled to great consideration, as coming from a- highly
talented and learned body of individuals, who were not
supposed to be affected by local connections or prejudices.
The petition was then read, and. ordered to be printed.
Mr. HUGHES (we believe) brought in a Bill to.pre-
vent the application of corporate property to the expences
of electing Members to serve in Parliament, which was
read a first time.