The Sun.
London, England, 1825-05-14 00:00:00

HOUSE OF; COMMONS.

_ The Report on the West India Bill was brought up Ly Mr:
Manning, and the further consideration deferred till Illonday
next.

„
Mr. MAXWELL presented a petition from two persons of the
name of Nixon, praying to be heard before the Committee on
the Clyde Navigation Bill. Referred to the COmmittee.
A petition was presented froth a certain parish iri Sitsseic
against any alteration in.the Corn Laws.
Several Orders of the Day were postponed, on the motion of
Mr. Dawsorr, to Friday next.. .
Mr. J. DOHERTY presented a petition from New Ross, in'
favour of The Irish Provincial Banks.- . •
SrKNATcHnux.r. presented a petition from the Sawyers
of DOver against any alteration in:the.Combination.Laivs.
Lord MILTON presented a petition from the Inhabitints of
Saddleworth, Yorkshire, praying for the Repeal of the Win-
dow Tait.
. .

HORNBY presented a petition from the Cotton SPinners
of Preston, relative to the regulatith of the hours of workink in
Factories. Bill. 'Alley prayed the Bill migtit not pass into a
Law.—Ordered to be printed.
Sir. R. INGLIS moved for a return of the Records; printed
by orders of this House, and also, for an account of the number
of copies distributed, and the expence attending the same,- from
the dat e of the first commission.—Agreed to.
Mr. &Lug brought up the Report on the Irish Assimilation
Currency Bill. The resolations were agreed to, and a Bill 'or-
dered to be brought in pursuant to the same.
Mr. SMITH presented a petition • from certain persons rela-
tive to the London Portable Gas Company.—Referred to the
Committee, .

Mr...S. WonTi.E Y presented a petitiOn from certain persons
relative to the Irish Linen Regulation Bill.
..
Mr. S. WORTLEY presented a petition from -a certain •pa-
rish•in Fifeshire, in behalf of Mr. Gourlay—.Lard on the table.
,Mr. S. -WORTLEY presented a petition from a persOn of the
name of Skelton, complaining of the conduct of the British
Consul at Havre de Grace—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. BARING presented a petition from the Merchantfi and
others of,Birmiagliain, praying that the Western Canal Bill
should pass into a law.
Mr. J. P. GRANT presented a petition frOM a Mr. •
relative to the Bill for the regulation of Apothecaries.
Mr. DErimAN gave notice of his intention to move, on
Tuesday next, for leave to hying in a Bill, plyeing the plain.
tiff and defendant in cases of misdemeanours on the same foot•
ing, and preventing plaintiffs from moving e,uses frorii the
Quarter Sessions to the Court of King's Bench on their own
mere motions.

MT. HUME presented a petition froth the Shipwrights cf
Sunderland against any alteration in the Conibinittion Laws..

' BURMESE WAR. . ...,
Mr. HUME wished to know if there was any further intel-
ligence as to the Burmese war ? .
• - ..
Alr. C. W. WYNN in reply said; that no further infoniltt-
tion had been as ypt received. When any .was it would _b-,-,
communicated, if icund expedient to do sr ..:

EAST INI)JA JUDGES' SA ItA.VIES. • ,
The East jiillge's Salary Bill went through a
mittee of the whole House. _

Mr. WYNN said that he had no essential amendments to
propose, andonly a few verbal 'alterations.
Mr. HUME wished to know. why the JudgeS.in India should
not be rendered altogether independent?
Mr. C. WYNN—The Judges in India were placed in 'the
same situation, as they had hitherto been.since the, year.l774,'
the mode of appointment remains the Same., The.Judges_4n
India were not appointed for life in consequence of the arrange-.
ments rnade with the Company here, at the different periods of
the renewal of their Charter. The only alteration made au thq.
salaries of the Judges was, that those of MsdraS. and Bornbat',
should be paid in the currency of India and not in that •(4.'
England. ' •• - . •
Mr. IITJAIE wished to knOw why it was, that the judges.ia
India shoUld be removed at pleasure? It Was inown that 00-
vernors could transport Juries, as they,had often done beftni,
if they gave a verdict contrary to the wishes:of suchfiovernOrs.
This should be
,prevented, and if Judges were only appointed et
pleasure, the people could have no secvaity. He wished. that
no Judge should be removed in this summary and improper
manner.
Mr. C. WYNN thaught that the lion. Alernhe;cqnla not
have read the Pill, or he would not have made t4ose,ebvrv.d-
tions. They could only apply.,to the Judge .Edward's
Island, way only appointed, duiipg the pleasure of kis
Majesty.
Mr. IIIJME.—But even in civil cases in. India the•Judke_
•
was a great and paramount authority in the.abseric,c‘of,pricS to
decide between.the Government and. the people, Anditheretbrett •
was of the more importance that they shOu,l4be Krulde
pendent. It was, well shewn how much inOiknFe was exercised
in India; and how no man could speak his opinion ,there wick-
, out the risk of being transported. A., complete_ tyranny ca. new
eiiereiied,over the people in India ; proscription after vroscrip,
Lion had taken,Place within the last few years, and the.ty ray-
riles of the :Stuarts in this country did.not,-iißat. dope whie:i
were now, practised in India. ..MerchanisTAtit9.o,oll,,nritii•‘i
sUbjects ,India; were at the mercy o 0ac..ljmogroraent t,f
India. Memorials and petitions Were prescnte,
~,. qain ; :the
half-caste population could:hold landsi -ipt had no Other rights,
and the English subject, thOUgh nnahfied as a.ittior„-cool4 not
hold an acre of Tand. In Ceylon Sir A. Johnstone allowed tilt
Cingalese.to sit on juries, and the greatest benefit followed front
it. If justice were done. to the people .of IndiaL K-they were
not subjected to summary dcpprtauon,,they would.reattily join
with us, „hut if not, the alternative could he,etrsily,•guessed.. Of
all things the Judges should.be made independent...
Air. RQBEII'fSQN said that there wasino triVmatia.lc4i
before which. the,sliidges .Con).4.be made amenable, and if. alto, .
gether independent, seine evil consequences might be the
result. .• ~ •
Mx. C. WV141,;1,--The Judges are independent gf,the doe -.
vernor,, and can only; , be..remoyed by the vote ot,,tlAis 4/ouse.
They are placed in the same situatiOnas,qll,thpotheoloniak
Judges. It was known that, violent.. disputes ptten,took,plaqe
between the. judges and the GovernOr, and atwas,,tpiite aeces-
, sary.that a superior power should cKiatt in.tioine„quArt.er:;,.and
what other quarter than-the poiern9T3ziho„ was. re,sponsible to,
tWs kfc Use ? . He th44glit the half C.aitteil could servo. on. Juriea
as well as Brrtisll subjects, and, in fact, all inhabitants of
isha.'cever countyy.. • • • • . • . , • . • • •
cis§t)arx3(...y.„ •
tFhOoll.bßvEccv ginlyd,piarootyesetetr
411:aegjaltaniigstnim tyranny 7. r.
t„Nr. §Y g.„E satisfied that thq Jialges of .Indus did not
stottLyi.r,i,_th‘vslitrn4,o
c °. in Ilex:
pi•Otiverlq #l4 w. PtStElP4c,9q of tlle.,,j4lairia.,
Pti un' the .Executive
instancedthe care of air Alexander, Murray,. -now. pendioßk.

?before the Privy Council, who was put under arrest by the
Governor of Demerara.
Dr. PH I LIJIMORE said, the Hon. Member for Aberdeen
was mistaken in his assertion that the Judges were removeable
at the pleasure of the Governor-General. They could be re-
moved only by the Crown ; and in that respect their situation
was more favourable than that of the Judges in our other Co-
lonies. The present Bill, however, had no relation to that
point; the object of it being merely to introduce an alteration
in the salaries of the Judges arising from the change in the
valise of Indian currency.
Mr. HUME protested that the BOard of Controul, which en-
joyed an annual sum of 30,000/. for doing nothing--(a laugh)
--should be so neglectful of Indian affairs. The Governor
himself refused all answer or explanation to the numerous
questions which were put to him. He held a letter in his
hand which proved the influence of the Governor over juries
and their verdicts. It stated that in, " civil actions they had
no juries at all." Those who sought for justice were placed
at the mercy of the Governor; for even if an appeal was
made from him to the Crown his acts were always sanc-
tioned. " In criminal trials," the letter went on, " none
bat Englishmen born are put upon the jury." In point
of fae, natives were strictly excluded from jury lists, and
the kalf-castes, who were z•.-.ater in number and richer
in possessions than ihe Englrin residents, were inexactly the
rune situation. It was the duty of the Right Hon. Gentleman
so see that justice was done to the great mass of Indian popu-
.labion, even if the Court of Directors refused to interfere. It
was notorious that any Juryman who returned a verdict against
the wishes of Government might be transported without trial.
IV en absolute power thus prevailed in India, the Judges
should be rendered independent, in order that they might stand
between the violence of the Government and the suffering
people. A sense of duty, if inclination were wanting, towards
the natives of India, should induce the Right Hon. Gentle-
man to propose such reforms as the millions in that colony
were entitled to.

Mr. WYNN said, the Judges of India were as independent
and of as high a character as any that could be found in this
sountry, and he could not name a body against whose conduct
there was less of suspicion, or who had given more universal
satisfaction.—(llear, hear!)-It was the anxious desire of the
Crown to recommend such persons as were fully.qualified for
the office. The Hon. Member (3lr.
,Ilume) knew. well that
the Courts of Judicature were not under the controul of the
meal Government. The case Of a removal, to which he had
a:Laded, arose from a dispute among the Judges themselves.
The right of transportation was given to the Governor and
Coancil by the Charter granted to 'the East India Company,
:lad that power had been ceded because India was more widely
opened than formerly to British enterprise and talent.. It did
not seem fit to alter or abridge that right during the subsistence
of the present Charter; but when it expired, Parliament would
then judge whether it ought still to continue.
Mr. HUME meant only to reflect on the conduct of the
Board of Controul, who allowed such things to disgrace the
Administration of India. If the Right Hon. Gentleman select-
ed most able and worthy men to fill the offices of Judge, he
should give them freedom to act according to their power and
capacity. He thought that a provision-should be introduced
into the last clause of the bill, allowing the senior Barristers to
appoint a temporary Judge, in cane of the death or absence of
all the Judges but one in a particular district. In Calcutta
one Judge only had presided from the Causes he had mentioned.
Mr. WYNN said, it would be anomalous to grant such a
power to the Barristers, from whose ranks the Judges were to
b- tilled. He had not heard of any complaint on the subject
to which the Hon. Member alluded; when such was made, it
would meet with immediate attention.
Mr. HUME again objected tothe power granted by the pre-
sent bill, allowing transportation to the Prince of Wales's
Island, where the party generally suffered greatly in health from
the heat of the climate. Wouldit not be better to remove them
to a colder climate ?

.51r. WYNNetaid, that power-was given to remove the con-
victs to any place which it thought fit.
Sir C..FORRES thought the salaries of the Judges were not
sufficient, considering the term of years which they resided in
India. He would therefore move that 60,000 rupees be aubsti.
tilted for 48,000.
S:r C. COLE seconded the motion.
Mr. WYNN said, that from the unfortunate loss of health
which took place in India, it was necessary to hold out every
temptation to those who were qualified for the judicial office.--
gut he thought any increase of salary might be left to the libe-
rality of the Company, whose object it was suitably to reward
their servants. The motion was put from the Chair, and ne-
gatived without a division.
Mr. H UM E observed, that the Bill provided that a turn equi-
valent to one year's salary should be allowed to the families of
such Judges as might die within a y.ar after their arrival in
India. He thought the words " after their embarkation for
India" ought to be substituted.
AIr.BROLIG HAM agreed with his Hon. Friend, who spoke
last, that the allowance ought to be granted, in the event of the
liidge dying within one year after his embarkation, because his
family would by this means gain four or five months, and the
company could lose nothing, as they would have to wait that
period before a successor could be appointra. There was, how-
ever, a more serious objection to the present Bill, and one to
which he was desirous to call the attention of the House. It
was the clause, which provided that no Judge could retire upon
a pension unless after a service of ten years. Now, when it
was considered that few persons were likely to be appointed to
the office of a Judge in India, who were under forty years of
age; and when the dangers of the climate were taken into ac-
.count, it was really a little too hard to extend the period of ser-
-vire to ten years. For his part, he thought seven or eight years
would be sufficient ; and by limiting it to that period, there
would be a better chance of procuring efficient men. Such,
he could answer, was the feeling in Westminster Hall.
Mr. H. SUMNER thought with the Hon. and Learned
Member (Mr. Brougham), that the pericd of ten years was too
tong, and that that of seven or eight years could conveniently
be substituted.

Mr. WYNN said, that he believed the intended arrange-
ment was perfectly satisfactory to those Gentlemen who had
reoeived the appointments. The certainty of retiring upon a
[mission after ten years' service was, in.their opinion, preferable
to any contingency dependent upon a stinted period.
The different clauses were then read, and agreed to. The
House resumed.

The CI M nmAY reported progress, and obtained leave to sit
stain, on Friday next.
- MESSAGE FROM THE I ORDS.
_ _

A. Message from the Lords announced their Lordships' As-
gent to seTeral Bills, for which see Lords' Report.
DR. DOYLE.

Sir J. NEWPORT said that an Hon. and Learned Friend
, of his (Mr. Brougham we believe) who was not then in the
Muse, had requested hiM to read a letter, which had been ad-
dressed to his Hon. and Learned Friend by a Rev. Prelate of
the Roman catholic Church. The letter was signed " John
Doyle," and its object was to rescue that Rev. ['relate from
certain imputations which had been cast upon him in a speech
attributed to an Hon. Member on a former evening. The Rev.
Prelate in this letter said, that no passage in the letters of
I. IK. L. could, unless they were distorted from their true mean-
ing, he considered as incompatible with the evidence which he
(Dr. Doyle) had delivered before the Committee of that House.
He stated further, that in his various publications daring the
taxi six years, as well as in his pastoral exhortations, it had
been his endeavour to inculcate the most perfect respect for the
• Eetablielied Church, notwithstanding that all and each of those
.'publications were in answer to the most violent attacks upon
the religion to which he (Dr. Doyle) belonged. The Rev.
Prelate, in conclusion,_ stated, that it had invariably been his
practice to inculcate the most perfect obedience to Government
• anti the Laws upon the minds of those who were committed to
his charge.: He, therefore, hoped, that Hon. Members would
dismiss from their min& any prejudice which might have been
eunduly excited against him or the cause which he advocated,
by the supposition that his evidence was at variance with the
-opinions which he had expressed elsewhere. He (Sir J. New.
.port) had thought it necessary to read this letter, both in de.
.ference to his Hon. and Leanied Friend, by whom he had been
requested to elo So, and also because he thought it due to the
Rear. • Prelate to do away the.unfounded charges which had been.
brought against him.
WAREHOUSED CORN.

Mr. 11USEISS614rn;Wilibiiorder of the Day for the
third reading of the lVarehoused Corn Bill.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY said that as the object of the proposed
Juli was to serve the public, without any view to the advantage
of speculators, he thought it would be better not to impose so
high a duty as 10s. a quarter. The imposition of a duty of
10s. a quarter would, in his (Sir M. W. Ridley's) opinion,
prevent the introduction of bonded corn into the market, as
the owners would rather wait until the market price became
70s. or 80s. and then introduce it at the regulated price.
Mr. WO DE HOUSE objected to the proposed exception in
favour of Canada corn, as he thought it was perfectly impos-
sible to prevent the blending of American corn with that which
would Mlle ostensibly from Canada, but in reality from the
United States, in case the present measure passed.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, that he entirely concurred-with the
flow. Baronet who had just spoken, that the object of the pro-
posed measure was to benefit the public generally, without any I
reference to the.loss or gain of individual speculators. With
thin view he was disposed to adhere to the proposed duty of 10s.
because he was satisfied that the imposition ofsuch a duty would
sot prevent the owner of the bonded corn from bringing it into
the market and the reason was obvioits, as they would not run
the risk of keeping it until next harvest, when the ports might
be opened. Next, with respect to the objection of the Hon.
Member for Norfolk, that the exception in favour of the Canada
Jan, would cau.se an irdiux_uf Arecncan corn )11t0 the country,

he owned that he had no fear of that kind. Experience had
hitherto proved that there was no foundation for any such ap-
prehension; for in years when British corn was so low as 50s. a
quarter, there had never been more than 150,000 quarters of C.:-
nada corn imported into this country. There could hardly be any
great fear of the blending of American corn, when it, was-cons
dered that the expence of transport to Canada alone amour, zee
to from 20s. to 255. a quarter. In order, however, to provid.
against the inordinate introduction of American corn, and to r,e
move all fears upon that head, he was willing, should the aver-
age of Canada corn imported into this country within the next
five years eeceed 100,000 quarters, to introduce some measure
to prevent the evil which the Hon. Member anticipated. He knew
that many imaginary fears had prevailed upon this subject.—
Some gentlemen were afraid that corn might be transpoited
from the Baltic to Quebec. and thence to this country, and an
Hon. Member, whom he did not then see in -his place, th.
Member for Surrey (Mr. Curteis) expressed his apprehension,
that immense -quantities of corn might be conveyed-down the
Mississipi to Canada.—(Loud laughter.)--He hoped the next
time the Hon. Member delivered hie sentimentseipon this sub-
jeci, that he would make.himself a little better acquainted with
geography, as he woulal, in that case, see what little fear there
was of corn being conveyed down the ,Mississippi to Canada.—
(Hear, and a laugh.)
Mr. H. SUMNER thought the proposed provision would
give satisfaction to the country. - -
Sir E. -HARVEY supported the motion before the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the
opponents of the measure were mistaken in. their view of it. In
the first. place, it was apprehended that the.introduction of grain,
the produce of the United States, through Canada', would be faci-
litated by it. But the expence and-difficulties that lay in the
way of such transhipment were most formidable. American
corn so-intended to be smuggled, must tirst be:bronght down
lin British ships, we believe) from Lake Champlain to Mon-
tree!, or either of the o'her two principal towns of Canada, and
there landed and warthoueed; after which it must be shipped
(in a British-bottom) for England —and all - this,. it • should be
recollected, must be done in opposition to the interests of the
Canadian agriculturist, which were as directly opposed to such
an evasion, as were those of the British farmer to the introduc-
tion of foreign corn. He would ask, therefore, how American
corn could be smuggled into this country ; and he thought the
fears of the corn growers of Great Britain were entirely ground-
less.

Sir I. COFFIN, from Iris knowledge of the difficulties in the
way of smuggling described by the itight lion. Gentleman,
fully concurred with him in opinion, that fraudulent importa-
tion was not to be feared.
Sir J. WROTTESLEY differed from the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) inasmuch as it was
manitestly the interest of the Canadian merchant (whatever
might be the feeling of the Canadian corn-grower) to assist in
carrying on the trade in transitu.
-Mr W. HORTON agreed with his flight Hon. Friend that
the people of Canada were as much interested in preventing the
importation of American corn into Canada as English agricul-
turists were in opposing the introduction into this country the
grain of Canada. The of the Canadian, being there-
fore in direct opposition to the apprehended evasion, there was
no reasonable ground for opposing the measure on that score.
Mr. SYKES was desirous that the warehoused corn should
be permitted to be broughs into market upon the easiest possible
terms, by adopting the lowest scale of duty:
Sir E. K NA'f CH BULL- could not agree with Those Hon.
Members who proposed a low rate of duty, and thdught. it
ought, on the contrary, to be increased. He was also of opi-
nion, that a clause ought to be introduced into. the Bill to pre-
vent the importation of American corn into Canada ; anti he
should add, that he had not yet discovered any fair or satisfac-
tory grounds for consenting to that favourite measure of some
Hon. Gentlemen, a revision of the Corn Laws, convinced as
he was that no alteration of those laws would be beneficial to
the country.

r. -C CJIt WE N thought the duty of 10a. too high, and that
the owners of warehoused grain, instead.of taking advantage
of the Bill, would wait until the price of corn reached 804.,
when they could bring it into market free of any duty what-
ever.

Mr. J. MAXWELL supported the motion.
Mr. CURTEIS felt it his duty to give all possible opposition
to the measure. He had every reason to believe that there was
abundance of corn in the country to meet the demand until after
the next harvest should be gathered, and that therefore the
alarm was false upon which some Hon. Meinbars grounded their
support of the Bill before the House. He besought those Gen-
tlemen to pause before they consented to the measure upon any
novel ground of policy. The property of the \Vest India pro-
prietors had been sacrificed to a similar speculative principle,
and it was new proposed that the landed interests of Great Bri-
tain should follow them. The country had attained to its
present state of prOsperity and greatness under the system of
restriction ; he therefore saw no ground for the proposed aitera-
tion.—(Question, question.)
Mr. W. WHIT:iI ORE thought it was a matter of perfect
indifference whether-the duty should be fixed at ss. or 10s., for
lie thought it very probable that at a low rate of duty the ware-
housed corn would be brought into market,..and so keep
down the price below 80s. and thus prevent importation, on which
account he would vote for the lower rather than the higher rate
of duty. He thought a very erroneous opinion had gone forth
respecting the importation of corn from Canada. Did Hon.
Gentlemen recollect, that the annual average importation of
grain from Canada for 21 years, (from 1800 to 1820,) was only
23.,000 quarters, an amount by no means calculated to produce
injury to, or justify alarm among.the British agriculturists, even
if that averageSliould be doubled. He hoped, therefore, that
his Right lion. Friend would not be induced to swerve from
that line of conduct respecting the grain of Canada which lie
had proposed.
After a few words from Mr. C. P4ELIIA3I, the Bill was read
a third time.

. .
Mr. HUSKISSON rose- to propose a clause by tray of rider,
which he thought would remove the alarm of some Hon'. Mem-
bers lest corn the produce of the United States should be smug-
gled into this country through Canada. The elaUse :'.rich he
was about to propose was similar to that for the prevention of
the introduction of foreign sugar through our West India Co-
lonies, and which latter measure had-been found sufficient for
its object. Ni'hen the great bulk of corn should be considered.
and the consequent greater difficulty of smuggling, he trusted
his proposed clause would be deemed satisfactory. Ile had no
objection to go farther to allay the apprehensions of the British
agriculturists, by providing that the annual importation of
grain from Canada should not exceed 100,000 quarters.
The original clause proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman
was then read, by which it was required that an attested certifi-
cate of growth should be delivered by the exporter from Cane:a
previous to the shipment of -corn. The clause was agreed to,
some verbal amendments having bean proposed.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY proposed to substitute 7*. for 10s.
Col. WODEHOUSE most cheerfully seconded the motion.
Brutus's. and Mr. H. SUMNER made some observa-
tions that were inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. HUSKISSON was not ignorant that private losses' may
be incurred; but the public interest.was paramount to that of
individuals ; on that ground he should, however reluctantly,
oppose the amendment.
The original Resolution was then put and. carried; and the
Bill then passed.
GRANT TO MR. lIPADA3.I.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQNER
. the House went into a Committee of Supply.
• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER 'said, that
the subject he was about to propose to the House' was far from
being new to the House.. Ile did not however mean to enlarge',
on the merits of Mr..M`sident, as every person in the country
whether traveller .or trader, must be aware of them. In 1819,
a Committee, sitting on the subject of Turnpike Trusts, had
recommended strongly • the improvements of Mr. 1114.Adatn,
and in consequence .of similar representations from the
Post Office, Government advanced the sum of 2,0001. to re-
imburse him for the.exPences he had incurred in his survey
of the public roads. In consequence of a similar recomthendaa
tion in 1820, Government advanced a further sum of 2,0001. In
1823 Mr. M`Adam applied to Government, and represented
that the rewards he had already received were inadequate to
the services he had rendered ; and that the expences he had in.-
curred were more than he had received from the employment
given him under several Turnpike Trusts, and asked the Go-
vernment to consider his case. Ile (the Chancellor of the Ex -
chequer) felt it his duty on all occasions to save the public
money, and did not receive the proposition as favourably as Mr.
M'Adarn might have wished. , He-would not do more than re-
commend Mr. M`Adarn to present a petition to the House.
That Petition was presented,. and he had reco nmencled it to a
Committee of Inquiry. In 1823, a Committee sat and reported
very strongly in favour of the Petition, stating that the country
had derived . great advantage from the invention. After the
Report of the. Committee, he had communicated with several
leading Members of the Committee ; and in consequence of
their opinion he took upon himself to, propose to Parliament
the present grant of 2,0001. He was well aware that Govcrs-
naent should not be too eager to make such propositions ; for,
generally speaking, the employment afforded by indiv:duals
was a sufficient reward for all ingenious discoveries. • It how,
ever often happened, that useful projects were not sufficiently
rewarded; and he thought this was one of the cases in point.
The discovery of Mr. DI .Adain had been infinitely serviceeble
Co the public, and that was the great test of all discoveries.
The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by proposing that tl e
sum of 2,0001. be granted to John Louden APAdam for- his
services in iinproring the public roads.
Mr. HUME did not deny the services of Mr. APAdatn bat
he contended that the public ought not to be made to pay for
such inventions (if they were inventions) as his. He had no
doubt it improved the public roads, but riany others had deg is.d

projects quite as useful to the country. The evidence taken
befbre the Committee. did riot justify the strong recommendation
they gave. lilreill'Adam had presented a Bill of 5010/. for
le12:) days of service hitt ha had not accompanied that bill with
tile necessary details. If the House sanctioned this claim it
might be calred upon to sanction a thousand others. Solite per-
sons had eortriared his merits to those of Bolton and IVatt.
which was quite ridiculous. This exception was a most dan-
gerous precedeeit. The House aught to have better data laid
before it. Mr. M'Adarn had devoted much time to the public
roads and reedered the Country great service, but he was not
the inventor of tile system. A Mr. Leycester, anti Mr. Pat-
terson, from each of whom he had presented Petitions four
years ago, had employed it long before him. He was ready to
pay Mr. 3l`Atiarn for his services out of the Post Office Fund,
but not by a'Parliameritary Vote. He objected to the prece-
dent. Mr. ill'Adam was employed by seventy. three turnpike
trusts in twenty-eight different counties, and they ought to re-
mtinerate him. It was the irregularity of the proceeding, and
not the amount of the grant, he protested against. If these la-
bours had been serviceable to the Post Office, let the Post Office
pay for them.. The House of Commons had nothing to do
with them. He admitted the great merits of Mr. M'Adam, but
he would not consent to the present grant.
Mr. N..CALVART strongly supported the grant, as Mr.
M'Adarn had done so much for the improvement of the public
roads, and the facilitation of the commerce of the country.
Mr. C. Wt esoet supported the grant.
Sir M. CHOMI,Ey said, that if Mr. IlPAtlam had already
received 4,0001: it was quite as much as he deserved, inasmuch
as the same system had previously been applied to the roads.
Sir THOMAS BARING said that this ought not to be re-
garded as a novel and dangerous precedent, as twenty-eight
similar grants had been made within twenty years. This was
Manifest from the evidence taken before time Committee. Why
was not Mr. Ill'Adern paid in common with other surveyors ?
The CIIANCELLOR- of the EXCHEQUER said, that
Whatever arrangement had been made with other surveyors,
Mr. M`Adain had received the benefit of them. The present
-grant had nothing to do with that.
Mr. 11. SINNER said,, that no doubt Mr. 1114 Adam had
rendered considerable service to the country, but he had no
merit as an inventor, inasmuch as the system had been in prac-
tice formtore than fifty years in his part of the country. It was
a most dangerous tax on the public. Mr. M'Adam and his
family had embarked in the profession of road surveyors, and
they had received front the public the stun of 41,0001. If they
had lived in the same way as others slid, he would not have
needed to make such applications to Government.
Mr. MA BERLY replied to the arguments of the Hon.
Member (Mr. H. Sumner). The question was, whether this
vote was expedient or not, and as there were but two ways by
which individuals were rewarded for inventions, namely, either
by patents giving them monopolies, or by Parliamentary
.grants. The Hon. Member went on to quote several prece-
dents-in support of the course how pursued with respect to Mr.
-M'A dam. The. Committee to whom the subject had been re-
ferred, were, with the exception of two or three Members, una-
nimous in considering the gentleman in question, as entitled to
recompense 'for his extraordinary services to the country. He
put it to the House whether it would now turn round and con.
trAdict that decision.

Mr. F. PALMER, from the diversity of opinion which pre-
vailed in the Select. Committee; did not believe that this vote
'would ever have beef] proposed. It was, in short, preposterous
to ascribe all the benefits which the country now enjoyed to. Mr.
M' Adam's roads. -It was also most true that for 20 miles
round the town of Bedford, where Mr. 111`Adern had never
operated, there were quite as good roads-as that Gentleman had
made ; and in reality, for what he bad clone he was adequately
rewarded. in the sums he and his sons received for their various
works—sums amounting in the last live years to 40,000/......
Upon tliesegrounds,..he was 'extremely sorry • to see-the. Right
lion. Qentlenian.(the. Cbancellor of the Exchequer) on this oc-
casion following the wrong road.
Mr. IL DAVIS bore testimony to the economical habits of
Mr. M'Adarn, which he was enabled to do after a knowledge
of that gentleman for nearly 30 years. As one of the trustees
of the Bristol roads, be could say that Mr. M'Adam fulfilled
the task he undertook to the strict letter. In the neighbourhood
he (Mr: Davis) lived in, he had rendered roads nearly impas-
sable as good as. any in the kingdom, and with less expence
than could have been imagined.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL had only to observe, that nothing
-he bad heard to-night had in the ]cast altered the determination
with which he came down to -the House, namely, that Parlia-
ment could not, consistently with its duty, accede to this vote.
In his opiniiin;, the trusts for whom Mr. M-Adam exerted his
talen!s should iewi4 theM. Already four thousand pounds
had been granted to *Mr. M4A-dain, which was more than be
at first demanded,. and now 20001.• more was proposed.' He
ivished to know whether these grints were bona fide, to atop
here, or to be again brought forward after.
Colonel VEBB said a few words in defence of the Bristol
Trust.

Sir R. WILSON' supported the vote. Not for the actual
good which Mr. ill'Adam had effected, but
_because he had
introduced a spirit of inquiry into the subject of roads.
Sir THOMAS AMA ND expressed his opinion of the great
benefit conferred. by Mr. Al 'A dam on the country at large. If
he had waited till he could effect contracts with the several
Trusts in England, he never should have been able to extend
his services -w he had done.
After a few words from Mr. ESTCOURT, and a Member
whose name .we. could not learn,, the House was cleared for a
division when the numbers were—

For the Grant
ligaln4 it
Majority -56
The Report wax ordered to he received on Monday next.
COUNTY COURTS' BILL.

- - - 83
- -

OR the question tha►t~the Reportof the. Committee on the
Compensation Clanse in this Bill he brought up,
Lord ALTHORP shortly defended the claims of the officers
.to compensation.

51r. BRIGHT declared his intention to oppose it, on the
around oldie bad example it would afford to the officers of all
superior Courts, tier there was not an officer in any Court who
would riot hereafter consider .himself entitled to compensation
in similar circumstances.
A AIEMBBR, whose name we could not obtain, said the
feeling of the Committee was, that every claimant for compen-
sation hi.d as good title to his situation and its emoluments, as
a man had to his freehold, because they had purchased these,
with the understanding that the profits were unalterable.
Air. HWIE asked if they were prepared to give compensa-
tion to every claimant for losses incurred under Bills brought into
that House ? • because unless they did so, it was an act of gross
partiality to give it under that one. One of the greatest evils
attendant upon the administration of justice was, he thought,
theselling of offices ; and he thought the House should at once
pass a resolution to prevent such in future. That House had
made great alterations lately in amount of duties on various
articles, and many manufacturers who had embarked their
capitals in speculation upon the faith of their continuance had
been serious sufferers. Was the House prepared to give com-
pensation to them ? for unless they were they could not with
consistency grant it to losers under this Act. He objected to
the principle altogether; and really believed the Noble Lord
(Lord Althorp) would have thought of giving compensation,
but for the purpose of gaining favour in the other House, and
neutralizing the opposition of one or two Noble Persons there
whose interest would be affected. What a state were they
arrived at when they were obliged to buy the consent of Noble
Pet-sons to a great public gocaL by such sacrifices as that.
Sir F. 03I11ANNEY made some -Observations, but in so
low.a tone as to he inaudible in the gallery.
Sir J. GRANT did not give the compensation under
any general principle, but under a principle of justice. When
men had either purchased their situations, or devoted their
lilies and health to-a•ccitain iltity,.they were ound, he thought,
to recompense those men for the loss of such situations. "
Mr. BRIGHT ezplained.
The, Report was then agreed to without- a division, and it
was ordered that •it be. an instruction to the Committee, that
the Resolution he embodied in the Bill:.