The Sun.
London, England, 1836-07-29 00:00:00

POOR LAW AMENDMENT ACT.

The following will furnish a brief summary of the Ministerial
Bill to facilitate the Administration of the Poor Laws in
England and Wales :
Some alterations are made in the Act passed in the 4th and
sth years of the present reign, as well as in the Act to facili-
tate the Conveyanik: of Workhouses and other Parochial and
Corporate property.
Clause 1, empowers the Poor Law Commissioners to dele-
gate their powers to Assistant Commissioners. The remaining
clauses up to the sth arc interpretative ; the titles of the others
will mark their scope.
Power to convey lands of the Duchy of Cornwall.
Purchase by guardians and parish officers, with consent of
Commissioners, declared valid.
Declaration that guardians are and were empowered by 5 and
6 Will. 4, c. 69, to exchange, convey, and demise, by their
common seal.
Receipt of person authorised by Poor Law Commissioners
to receive money, a good discharge.
Statements and recitals in conveyance under seal of Poor
Law Commissioners, to be evidence of fact stated or recited.
Declaration that provisions of recited Acts apply to copy-
holds.

Provision for enfranchisement of copyholds.
If Lord of Manor dissatisfied further valuation to be made.
Voluntary agreements may be completed.
Steward of Manor to enter certificate on rolls of manor, and
furnish parchment copy thereof to Poor Law Commissioners.
Mode of conveyance.
Instruments under recited Act, and this Act, exempt from
Stamp Duty.
The meaning of the words " Grant and Convey," " Surren-
der and Assured" in conveyances and surrenders to guardians.
Meaning of words " Assign and Transfer" in assignment of
chattel interests.
Meaning of the like words in conveyances and surrenders by
guardians;
Meaning of words " Grant and Demise."
Hereditaments taken in exchange confined to uses for which
those originally granted were limited.
Effect of transfer of security, and meaning of words " As-
sign and Transfer."
Extension of time for paying off Loans to Twenty years.
Not less than One-twentieth to be paid off annually.
Parish having paid off proportion of Loan, discharged from
liability pro Canto.
Loans made before 4 and 5 Will. IV., c. 76, declared valid
in certain cases.
Power to appoint Assessor or Returning Officer.
No Assessor or Returning Officer capable of being elected
at election where lie acts as such.
Penalty on Churchwarden or Overseer refusing to act.
Persons having paid up arrears of poor rate entitled to vote
at election of Guardians.
No owner or proxy entitled to vote, unless claim be sent or
objection overruled previous to a day to be fixed by Poor Law
Commissioners.
Owners to enter claims to vote at annual elections on or be-
fore the Ist February in each year, and objections to be en-
tered on or before the Ist March.
Poor Law Commissioners may assign one guardian for two
or more parishes.
Power to divide parishes into wards.
Consent of person E nominated as guardians may be called for
before voting.
Overseers not being Churchwardens, and Females, ineligible
as guardians.
Appeal to Poor Law Commissioners in disputes at election
of guardians.
Acts of guardians not affected by irregularities of election.
Continuance of first Board of guardians. 4 and 5 W. 4.
c. 76. a. 2 and 12.
Power to guardians to call for Papers and Returns from
parish officers.
Power to appoint Auditors.
Power to appoint officers in case of neglect or disobedience
of overseers or guardians.
Salaries of Auditor, or Assistant Auditor, &c., to be fixed
by the Commissioners and to be charged on rates of unions
and parishes.
Powers of Collectors of Rates transferred to colle?tors ap-
pointed by guardians.
Receipt of Treasurer of Union or parish a sufficient dis-
charge to collector.
Relieving Officers to have powers of overseers as to their
duties under 4 and 5 W. 4. C. 76. s. 46.
When parish becomes part of union, office of Assistant
Overseer, &c., to cease.
Power to the Poor Law Commissioners to add parishes to
unions, and to alter and remodel unions formed by them under
the provisions of the Poor Law Amendment Act.
This clause contains a reservation of rights of third parties.
Union for settlement and rating to be deemed one parish
where added to other parishes.
Compensation to be made for workhouse' property in form-
ing, altering or dissolving unions.
Power to direct parishes and unions to contract under 9 G.
1. c. 7. s. 4. Parishes or unions having workhouse may enter
into contracts for receiving the poor of other parishes or unions.
Wards to be set apart for lunatic, insane and idiot paupers.
Wards to be licensed under 2 and 3 Will. IV. e. 107. And
to he visited by Justices and Inspectors under 2 and 3 Will.
IV., e. 107, and 9 Geo. 4, c. 40.
Lic,nse of lunatic wards exempted from stamp duty.
Posse,- for Commissioners, with consent of owners of pro-
perty and rate payers, to place parochial trusts under manage-
ment of Boa:d of Guardians of any parish.
Trusts for s.stting poor on work to be subject to Rules of
Poor Law Commissioners.
By the 49th clause children may be removed to or from any
place where employment is offered ; if under 16 years of age the
consent of the parent must be first obtained. Orphans, of
course, of any age, are entirely at the disposal of the Corn-
rnrssioners.
t r;itntracts for hiring and service of poor children to be as

valid as apprenticeship. Contracts and parties thereto subject
to jurisdiction of Justices. No settlement to be acquired under
such contract.

Ropeal of 56 Geo. 3, c. 39, s. 1.

Amendment of 95th section of Poor Law Act. Power to
mulct overseer, master of workhouse, &c., for not carrying into
effect Poor Law Commissioners Rules.
Guardians liable to penalties for contempt of Poor Law
Commissioners. No penalty to attach on guardians attending
and voting in minority.

GuardiTw ‘vho shall have attended four-fifths of meetings of
Board exempt from parish offices for ensuing year. Record of
attendances to be kept. Person making false entry or alteration
guilty of misdemeanor.
Penalties may be proceeded for in name of guardians.
Officers to have the power and protection of constables.
The period to elapse before Rules come in force is 15 days.
The 58th and last clause repeals parts of Acts repugnant to
this Act.

The after-dinner practice that obtains more, we be-
lieve, in this country than in any other, of drinking toasts,
calls forth occasionally strange specimens of home-brewed elo-
quence. Last week a party assembled at the house of a friend
on the banks of the Canal, when, in the course of the evening,
the host proposed the health of one of the guests, who, upon
rising to reply, floundered sadly about " want of words,"
" proudest day of his life," &c., till suddenly finding the tide
of language fast ebbing, he exclaimed, by way of climax—
" Gentlemen— Eh ! there's a Canal boat pun by !"
Scotsman.

11V1PERI

AMEN T.

110 USE OF COMMONS, JULY 28.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
TRINITY (NORTH LEITH) HARBOUR AND
DOCK.
Sir ANDREW L. HAY brought up the report of the
Committee on the Trinity North Leith Harbour and
Dock Bill, which recommended that the Bill should be
withdrawn. The llon. and Gallant Member said
wished to state broadly the circumstances under which the
Committee reported that an informality had occurred
of such importance as to induce them to recommend tile
Bill to be withdrawn, otherwise it might become
an improper precedent on future occasions. The manuscript
copy of the Bill introduced into the House was different i❑
some respects from the print which was afterwards circu-
lated, and which was referred to the Committee. Words
had been then introduced in a way that the Committee con-
sidered informal ; they would not permit the Bill in that
shape to proceed, and therefore they agreed to report to the
House that the Bill should be withdrawn, and another Bill
introduced. He would therefore move that a Bill be intro-
duced to construct a Harbour and Dock in Leith.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL submitted whether the
House would for a third time allow a Bill to be introduced. It
was from very great indulgence that a second Bill had been al-
lowed to be introduced in the same Session, especially when
the informality had arisen from the 'gross negligence of the
promoters of the Bill. He did not wish to charge any thing
beyond gross negligence. There was a unanimous vote that
the Committee could not proceed with the Bill, and his
Hon. and Gallant Friend was allowed to try his hand a
third time. He trusted, however, the House would not, by
permitting the introduction of this Bill, sanction such gross
negligence. As the necessity for the third Bill bad confes-
sedly arisen from the negligence of the promoters of the
other two, he hoped the House would at once reject it.
Mr. POULTER supported the motion for the Bill.
The ground upon which the Committee had sanctioned the
application for a new Bill was totally different from that
stated by the Attorney-General, and he hoped the House
would allow the parties to remedy that defect.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the Committee could not have
proceeded with the second Bill without doing great injus-
tice to the merits of the case. He hoped the Hon. and
Gallant Member would postpone his motion till next session.
Sir G. CLERK said the Bill was one which, consistently
with the rules of the House, could not be proceeded with.
It would be one of the worst and most injurious of prece-
dents, and he hoped it would not be sanctioned by the
House. This was not a case of the preamble not being
proved ; and, of course, the parties were at liberty to ask
for the further indulgence of the House. He would only
say that he was one of the Members appointed upon the
Standing Orders Committee ; and they had deferred many
very important measures, from March last to the next
year, for much less informality than was contained in this
Bill.

Sir. A. L. HAY complained of the Hon. Baronet not
stating quite correctly that which had passed in the Com-
mittee. Not one Member of the Committee had objected
to his making the present application.
The LORD ADVOCATE said the Committee could
not possibly take any cognizance of such a matter. They
had done all their duty allowed them to do, viz., to decide
upon the Bill which was before them.
The gallery was then cleared for a division.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority for the motion 8
ASSESSED TAXES.
Mr. WILKS presented a petition from the Assessed
'FRx Collectors of the Metropolis and its vicinity, praying
for compensation, in consequence of the great reduction in
taxation that had taken place under the Act of George 111.
The Collectors of Assessed Taxes received 3d. in the
pound on the amount of their collections. At the time
the Act passed, the amount received for the Assessed
Taxes amounted to one million five hundred thousand pounds.
In the year 1822, a considerable diminution was made in
favour of the country in the Assessed Taxes, and by this
and other things considerable reductions had been made of
the profits of the Assessed Tax Collectors. They did not
make complaints of that ; but, in 1834, the House Tax
had been also removed, and the result was, that
the amount now to be collected by the three hundred
persons who filled these important offices did not exceed
600,060/. a-year ;so that where they before received 741.,
they now only received 32/. Yet still their vocations were
greater than they were before. Such being the case, the
petitioners had made repeated applications, but without ef-
fect, to the different successive Governments ; and there-
fore the present application had become necessary.
The SPEAKER interrupted the Hon. Member, and
said that it was very desirable that Hon. Members should
confine themselves to the statements of their petitions.
Mr. WILKS said that the statement of the petitioners
was, that they had only half the amount of revenue, whilst
they had at least the same amount of labour. Under these
circumstances he hoped that his Majesty's Government
would take the matter into consideration, and that they
would be prepared with some measure of redress. If this
were not done, he should feel it his duty early in the next
session to move for certain papers on the subject.
Mr. F. BARING hardly knew what course they could
pursue on this subject. He was very sorry that there should
he any appearance of hardship towards the petitioners.
The subject had been for a long time under the considera-
tion of the Government ; but there was this difficulty in the
case, that if they acceded to the memorial that had been
presented by the petitioners, they would be adding largely to
the expenditure of the public money. There was a difficulty
in complying with the prayer of the petition, although there
was a wish to do so on the part of the Treasury, if they could
comply without raising a host of parties. They had every
wish to redress the grievance of the petitioners.
FACTORIES' BILL.
Mr. GULLY:presented a petition from Pontefract, in
favour of the 10 hours' Factory Bill.
IMPORTATION OF SPECIE.
Mr. ROBINSON said he had a petition in his hand
which was of great public, as well as individual, importance ;
but before he proceeded to state the substance of the peti-
tion, he felt it to be his duty, in consequence of
the prayer being somewhat equivocal, in regard to the
forms of the House, to state what the prayer was. The
petition prayed that a sum of 13,800/. charged by the
Admiralty upon the Underwriters, of the wages and provi-
sions of the officers and seamen of the ships employed for
the protection of specie, and for the wear and tear of his
Majesty's ships, might be restored to the parties ; or that
the House would make inquiry into the circumstances, and
adopt such other measures, as in its wisdom it might think
fit.

prevailed when he first-entered Parliament, when petitions
were presented withoTt any discussion. It was a most un-
gracious attempt ; but he was strengthened by the conviction
that he was supported by the House. He bad thought so
till last night, when that conviction was shaken by seeing
Honourable Members on both sides of the House
get up, and recommend the Honourable Member
for Berkshire to proceed in the breach of the practice.
There was another class of petitions, where individuals
wished to make motions upon them ; those, in his opinion,
were only to be made upon the condition that notice was to
be given. He had considered it his duty to make these
statements out of respect to the House, and be now left the
subject with them to deal with it as they thought best.
Mr. ATTWOOD thought the rule laid down by the
Speaker completely put an end to the presentation of pe-
titions.

Lord J. RUSSELL thought that the greatest inconve-
nience had taken place in consequence of Members making
observations, and stating their own views upon peti-
tions which they had to present. He felt indebted
to the Chair for the course it had pointed out,
for unless some such rule was adopted, if the House
was to devote from 9 to I() o'clock for the presentation of
petitions, only two or three would be presented. If any
discussion was to take place on the subject of petitions,
it ought to occur on the motion for the reading of some
Order of the Day upon notice.
HAND-LOOM WEAVERS.
Mr. MAXWELL had felt every inclination to give to
the Honourable Members who had opposed this Bill
every opportunity of having it thoroughly considered. He
had asked from the Noble Lord opposite whether Govern-
thent intended to remain neutral? If, however, unfortunately
the Bill, which in his opinion would be attended with the
greatest good-

Mr. WARBURTON rose to order—the Hon. Mem-
ber was commenting upon the effect of his Bill, and no
person would have an opportunity of replying.
Mr. MAXWELL would only add a few words. He
wanted merely to give publicity to the prices.—(Loud cries
of " Order," and " Chair.")
Lord JOHN RUSSELL hardly knew how to answer
the Hon. Member's question, because he was really afraid
of a misunderstanding on this subject. Certainly, if the
Hon. Member wished him to express his concurrence in this
Bill, he was unable to do so. But if the Hon. Member
wished him merely to say that he wished that this Bill should
have an opportunity of having a full deliberation, and that
the Government would not interpose any obstacle to such
deliberation, he was ready to say thus much, and he was
quite ready to say that if without concurring in the Bill
there were any regulations on the subject that might be
useful, he would look certainly most impartially to the
subject.

POOR LAW AMENDMENT.
Mr. HUME had a question to put respecting the Poor
Law Amendment Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL was going to move that the Order
of the Day be read for the purpose of postponing it to this
day three months.
.'Mr. HUME wished to make one observation. He sub-
mitted that if the Noble Lord, the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, saw no objection when a Bill of
so much importance, calling for the alteration of the
existing laws, and giving extraordinary powers to the Com-
missioners, was brought forward, whether he did not think
that the Board of Commissioners ought to lay on the table of
that House the reasons why these various enactments were
required. It would save a vast deal of time, and would
have prevented much misunderstanding. He was satisfied
that much of the alarm that had been raised was owing to
the object of this Bill not being understood. He, therefore,
hoped that the Noble Lord would take the subject into
consideration.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL agreed in the opinion expressed
by the Hon. Member for Middlesex, and could assure the
Hon. Member, that it was the intention of the Board to
have laid their Report before that House and the public,
previous to the Bill being brought in—( Hear, hear)—that
Report had unfortunately been delayed, it having extended
much further than was anticipated.
Mr. T. ATTWOOD rose amidst cries of " Order."
He begged to read the Order of the Day of the 7th of
July, by which he had been prevented from presenting his
petition. The words of it were, " that during the remain-
der of the present Session public business should commence
at half-past four, or at four o'clock, in case the private busi-
ness was sooner disposed of."
Major BEAUCLERK hoped that in the next session
the Noble Lord (Russell) would allow the whole subject of
the Poor Laws to come before a Select Committee of that
House. He had no objection to the Noble Lord naming
the Committee, as all he wanted was a fair investigation.
He admitted that much good had arisen from the Bill, and he
only wished to have an opportunity of pointing out some
serious evils which he conceived to exist in the present
system.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL could not answer the question
of the Hon. and Gallant Member at present. His mind
was made up to refuse the appointment of a Select Com-
mittee to consider the whole question of Poor Laws ; but, at
the same time, that if there was any particular part of the
present law that inflicted an unnecessary hardship
or that infringed upon the the poor with any
severity, he would not refuse, respecting that
particular point, to make any alteration that was called for,
consistently with the maintenance of the law. The Bill
was then ordered to be read a second time that day three
months.

PRISONERS' COUNSEL BILL.
Mr. EWART brought up the Report of the Select
Committee, which had been appointed to consider the
amendments made by the Lords to the Prisoners' Counsel
Bill. The Committee disagreed to the amendments made
by the Lords, depriving prisoners in cases of felony of the
last word.
Sir E. WILMOT said, that not being present last night,
he wished to say he thought all difficulty might be got rid
of by at once adopting the amendments of the Lords.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL then rose to address
the House, but was interrupted by the Deputy Usher of
the Black Rod, who summoned the Speaker to the other
House to hear the Royal Assent given to certain Bills.
The SPEAKER, on his return, informed the House of
the Bills which had received the Royal Assent, for which
see Lords' Report.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would in a very few
words dispose of the arguments he was using when the
Speaker was called away. He deprecated in the strongest
terms the Bills being lost by any disagreement with the other
House, for even as the Bill now stood, it was a great gain
if the Bill became the law of the land ; in ninety-nine cases
out of one hundred the prisoner would have the last word,
for it was comparatively few who called witnesses to cha-
racter. He most strenuously advised the House to accept
the Bill in its present shape.
Mr. EWART said, if the House adopted the amend-
ment of the Lords it would make the law worse than it at
present was ; for though it gave him one speech, it gave
two against him. The Report had been agreed to unani-
mously by Members of all shades of politics ; be-
sides, it was not to be supposed that the Bill
would be lost if the proposed plan were carried into effect
—for the Commons gave up part of their original
Bill, in the hopes of inducing the Lords to compromise.
All that was asked was that justice should be extended
to cases of felony and misdemeanour. In his opinion instead
of the Bill being thrown out, as suggested by his Honour-
able and Learned Friend, it would be much better to
have a conference with the House of Lords ; and if they
would not agree to the alterations proposed, then the ques-
tion would be, whether that House should go along with
them, or give up the Bill altogether ?
Mr. C. BULLER thought the great objection in the
House of Lords was applying the provisions of the Bill to
treason and misprision of treason.--(Hear.)
The Report was then ordered to lie on the table ; Lords'
Amendments to be taken into further consideration on
Monday next.
POOLE CORPORATION BILL.
Mr. POULTER moved the third reading of the Poole
Corporation Bill.
Mr. A. TREVOR considered that the Bill interfered
most improperly with the rights of parties, and if he
stood alone he would take the sense of the House upon the
third reading of the Bill.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
The House divided, when the numbers were—
For the third reading 74
Against it
30
Majority
-44
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
GREEK LOAN.
The House, on the motion of Lord PALMERSTON,
went into Committee on the Greek Loan Bill,—Mr. BER-
NAL in the Chair.
Lord PAL MERS TON said that the object he had in view
had been pretty well explained by the papers he had laid before
the House, which showed the course of the communication
which had taken place between the Government of this
country and the Government of Greece on the one hand,
and the Governments of France and Russia on the other,
with regard to the further guarantee of the remaining por-
tion of the loan of 1832, which the Three Powers had gua-
ranteed. He wished to reiterate to the Committee the grounds
on which he felt it his duty to make the present proposition.
The House was aware that after the termination of the
contest between Greece and Turkey, and when the latter
power consented to acknowledge the independence of
Greece, by virtue of certain authorities given to the Three
Powers by the Greek nation, those Powers proceeded to
exercise the trust that devolved upon them in the
choice of a Sovereign for Greece. That choice fell
upon Prince Leopold of Saxe Coburg ; and in the
communications that had taken place between that prince
and the Conference consisting of the three Powers, those

three Governments agreed to guarantee the interest and
sinking fund of a loan of sixty millions of francs to
he raised for the use of the Government, of Greece.
The House was aware of the circumstances which had led
to the resignation of Prince Leopold, and the appoint-
ment of Prince Otho. When the proposition was made
to Prince Otho, the Government of Bavaria asked whe-
ther the same accommodations would be afforded to him,
which had been afforded and secured to his predecessor,
and substantially had asked, whether the same accommo-
dation would be given to him, to enable him to administer
the Government of Greece. The three Powers consi-
dered themselves bound by their former engagement, and
consented to continue to Prince Otho the engage-
ment they had made to Prince Leopold—not made
to this or that individual, but made to the Greek na-
tion, in furtherance of the accomplishment of those pur-
poses. which the Three Powers had laboured to establish.
In consequence of this an article was inserted in the Treaty
between the Three Powers and the King of Bavaria, signed in
1832, by which the former Government was formally regarded
in the Treaty, with this difference, that whereas in 1830 the
engagement made was general, and without restriction, to
guarantee sixty millions of' francs. By the treaty of 1832,
that loan was to be divided into three instalments of
twenty millions each, and were to be raised in succession
instead of the whole being raised at once ; and the raising
of the different instalments was to be made in virtue of that
Treaty. Two out of three instalments had already been
granted, and the loan to the extent of 40,000,000 francs
had already been received. With regard to the two
first instalments, when the original engagement
was made with Greece in 1830, it was supposed
by both parties, that the whole of the 60,000,000 world go
in aid of the general revenues of Greece. Subsequently
to 1835 a negociation had been entered into at Constanti-
nople, which was attended by the most successful termina-
tion, from the zeal and ability of his Right Honourable
Friend, the Member for King's-Lynn, by which negociation
a large and important district had been added to
the territories of Greece, on condition that the Greek
States should pay to Turkey a sum of 40,000,000 piasters.
The Greek Government had, therefore, had the two first
instalments, but from them was to be deducted the
40,000,000 of piastres, amounting to about eleven million
three hundred francs, which had been paid to Turkey.
In the course of last year the Greek Government repre-
sented that there was still a deficiency of revenue, and that
they required the further advance. The application was
not unexpected by the parties. Discussions arose between
the Conference and the Greek Government as to the
amount of the advance which was required, and as to what
portion it was necessary to advance for the service of the
Greek State—the Conference, of course, requiring strict
proof of what was actually necessary for the expenses
of the year. In doing so, he thought they acted with that
due caution and attention which the subject demanded, and
not only for the benefit of the three States, but also of Greece
herself ; for, of course, it could be no benefit for her Go-
vernment to have more money in her coffers than she
required. The Greek Government satisfied them that
there was a deficiency, and that it amounted to from four
to six millions of francs. There was a doubt on the part
of the Government of France as to the amount which ought
to be advanced ; but at last she had concurred with the British
Government, that the loan ought to be six millions of
francs. In the early part of last year disturbances had
broken out in the northern provinces—not from the inhabi-
tants, but an inroad of banditti from Turkey. It was repelled
not only by troops brought from the Southern provinces,
but also by taking into active employment the population of
the country. It became necessary to raise 2,000 men,
in addition to the army, and when he stated that it
was raised from that population which were thought to be
turbulent, and they, forgetting their old habits and jea-
lousies, joined closely together and repelled the enemy.
When he stated that, he afforded a strong proof that
the Government of Greece was founded upon the affections
of the Franks. The French Government and the English
Government being of opinion that the loan of sixty millions
of francs was necessary and sufficient for the exigencies of
the Greek Government, the Russian Government enter-
tained a different opinion, and having in the first place de-
clined to concur in any advance, they afterwards proposed to
the Conference not to join in that, but proposed that
the Three Powers should immediately guarantee the
whole amount, which should be issued by annual
payments of 2,500,0001. His Majesty's Government and
the Government of France felt that this proposal was not
applicable to the present wants of the Greek Go-
vernment. There could be no doubt that the meaning and
spirit of' the treaty was, that the Government of Greece
should have the loan of 60 millions of francs, but the proposal
of the Russian Government would place at the disposal of
the Government of Greece only forty millions out ofsixty, and
would, therefore, place Greece in a state of absolute insolvency
The object he had in view was to propose to the House a
Bill, the purport of which was not to authorise the Crown
to go to a greater extent than the former Act authorised it
—not to guarantee more than the third of the sixty millions
which the country had already guaranteed, but to enable
England to go step by step with France, even although
Russia should not be satisfied to guarantee her portion of
the loan. It was a Bill not to increase the liability of this
country, but to enable the Crown to render that liability
useful. The total amount which this country had con-
tracted to pay would be six millions and upwards of francs.
The question now was, not whether the Crown should stop
short, and refuse any more of the money so guaranteed, or
whether it should go on to increase the guarantee. The
country was bound to guarantee to Greece by the stipula-
tions of the treaty the whole of that six millions of francs
—the residue of its share in the sixty millions ; and if the
Russian proposal were to be adopted the Government
should proceed to charge the country prospectively with
the whole amount. The question, then, was not whether
the Government should do it, but how they should do it ?
It might be satisfactory to the Committee to hear what
were the prospects which Greece held out, that the en-
gagements which it entered into with this country in
the Treaty of 1832 would not bring a charge upon the
finances of England ; for though he (Lord Palmerston)
could not for a moment admit, that even though
Greece was not able to fulfil her engagements the course
he was now about to propose to the Committee should
not be taken, still he thought it would be satisfactory
to the Committee to know how matters stood in that re-
spect. He was happy, then, to be enabled to state to the
Committee that the revenue of Greece was progressively
increasing, while its expenditure was, on the contrary, pro-
gressively diminishing. From 1832 up to the present year
he could show that to be the case ; and it was only fair to
infer that it would continue so during the existence of the
causes which conduced to it :.--.

In 1833 the expenditure was 134)00, Franc
o.
1835
1834
1836
15,000,000
The amount of the former years was certain, that of the
present year was the estimated expenditure.

Fi ancs.
2,500,000
4,800,000
3,300,000
4,900,000

In 1828 the revenue was
1829
1830
1831
1832
1833
7,000,000
1834
9,400,000
1835 ...
10,700,000
1836
11,300,000
The revenue of 1832 could not be ascertained with any-
thing like precision, inasmuch as it was a period of confu-
sion, as the country was in a state of anarchy, and as no
public accounts were kept. The revenue of 1836 was the
estimated sum. It appeared, therefore, that while the re-
venue was increasing the expenditure was diminishing, anti
that the difference between them was—

In 1834 about A.ancs.
1835 10,000,000
1836
4,000,000
It was natural to suppose that a country situated as Greece
was would, when her Government was organized, have a
revenue sufficient for all her wants. He had no great
means of ascertaining the general nature and amount of the
foreign commerce of Greece ; but he thought safe conclu-
sions might be drawn from the returns made by the British
Consul at Patras, inasmuch as that pot t, from its geogra-
phical position in regard to the country, might be taken as
a key to the entire. The British tonnage entered at
Patras—

ps. i Taus.
In 1831 amounted to ShB
containing 1,000
1832 ............... 20
1833 ............... 23
1834 •
28
1835
The value of the imports from Great Britain to Patras
was—

In 1831 about
In 1835
while the value of the exports at the same period were—
In 1831
In 1835 £ 33,00 g
1 I 7,000
If the Government of Greece was found able to carry on
the affairs of the country—to pay their troops, their civil
servants, and their employers of every kind—to causo the
laws to ho feared and good order to be respected—he
thought he was justified in saying that, should such a pro-
gressive state of things continue, the revenue of the country
would progress in the same ratio, and a sufficient surplus
would be soon available, not only to pay the interest upon
the debt, but also to place against a portion of the capital
fund guaranteed by the three contracting Powers. But
even if a doubt of the immediate ability of Greece to pay
this debt existed, at the present crisis no man of sense
could refuse the remainder of the loan, so as to enable the
Government of that country to be carried on for this year,

.~

If there was one more period more than another in t • t
cent political existence of that country fraught with most
danger to her further being, it was the a present. ,
refusal of the residue of the loan would bring the ma-
chine of Government there to a dead standstill, and all
hope of recovery would be at an end. He (Lord
Palmerston) could not bring himself to believe, after
the efforts made by this country to secure the independence
of Greece and the active co-operation of Parliament
with the public on that occasion, that the present House
Commons would preserve a total indifference as to its future
fate, or stand altogether neutral while its political exist-
ence was at stake. He was persuaded that the feelings
regarding Greece which formerly actuated this country
were not so altered as to induce the House of Commons
by a deliberate act to condemn it to anarchy and ruin—to
destroy the fiihric of its freedom, and to consign it over to
slavery. The Noble Lord then proposed the following
resolution :—" That it is the opinion of this Committee
that his Majesty be authorised and empowere"), to guarantee:
that portion agreed to by this country of the third and
last instalment of the loan contracted by the King of
Greece with the Three Powers, in pursuance of the Con-
vention to that effect ; and that prevision be made to pay
the interest and expenses thereof out of the Consolidated
Fund."
Mr. HUME asked the Noble Lord whether the monies,
stated by him to have been paid to the Greek army and
navy had been disbursed out of the revenues of that
country ?
Lord PALMERSTON was understood to reply in
affirmative, with the exception of the present year, the
avarage revenue of which having been taken on a probable
estimate only could not be applied to that purpose.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether the statements of
the revenue and expenditure made by the Noble Lord
were derived from the official documents or public acts,
and if so, by whose authority had they been presented
to him ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that they were taken from
the accounts presented to the Government by the Greek
Minister in London, as well as from the statements of the
English Minister at the Court of Greece. He did not
know and could not say whether they had ever been pub-
lished
in Greece.
Mr. ROBINSON was sorry to oppose the resolution,
but he did not consider the Committee was bound by any
obligation of national honour or national faith to concur
with the Noble Lord ; and he thought it might safely, as
I
well as justly, refuse its concurrence with his resolution. t
was a most important matter for the Committee to know,
that when the loan was contracted for the King of Bava-
ria, on the part of Greece, his Ambassador undertook, as
party to the contract, that the surplus revenues of the
country should be applied to the payment of the interest
on it, as well as to the creation of a sinking fund, before
they were applied to any other purposes. So far from that
condition being complied with, the interest remained unpaid,
and the Noble Lord was unable to state in what manner
the resources of the country had been applied. The Noble
Lord had not clearly explained the course which France
had taken ; the House, however, had a right to know it.
It was quite idle to say that if the Committee agreed with
the Noble Lord, England would only have to guarantee the
six millions, her share of the twenty millions—she world timately have to guarantee the entire of it. And, even
this country were not prepared to uphold Greeee still fur"
ther it would be idle to guarantee that. The Noble Lord
had said that the Government of King Oen° was popular
in Greece. He (Mr. Robinson) had reason to know the
contrary. He believed the Bavarian rule in that country
was highly unpopular, and that King Otho would never be
popular with the martial chiefs over whom he had bee°
called to reign. The resources of Greece also were highly
estimated by the Noble Lord. Now, if he (Mr. Robinson)
understood right, they were never in a more dilapidate
state. How could they be otherwise ? The whole country
was hi a ferment : all the Peloponessus was in arms, and
only kept from rebellion by the presence of a Bavariao
force. This country had been so often the victim of ott.ters,
and the several Governments had come down to the Ijouse
so repeatedly for a sanction to immense expenditure in that
way, that it was time to look about before it pre.,ceedean further. In almost all the transactions in
which England
had been engaged with the other Powers,. of Europe she
had been left to pay the whole. lb should move as an„
amendment, for the purpose of keeping the question she
treat " That it is the opinion of this Committee that the
treaty of 1832 not having been fulfilled on the part of
Greece it is virtually cancelled, and that it is not expedient
to guarantee any portion of the third instalment of the
loan stipulated by it without the concurrence of all the par'
ties thereto."
Mr. PRYME should vote against both the resolution
and the amendment.
Lord DUDLEY STE WART felt great pain in opposing
the motion of his Noble Friend on this occasion. If the ob-
ject of the loan were to establish Greece as a thorough in-
dependent State, and not, as he knew it was, as little better
than a Russian province, it should have his ready assent
but when lie considered that this money, when paid, would
be applied, not to Government purposes, but solely to the
purposes of the Russian faction in Greece, he felt himself
bound to give it his decided opposition.
Mr. HUME deprecated that invariable language
strong complaint against the conduct of Russia which the
Noble Lord was in the habit of using on every occasion-
Much of the power of Great Britain depended on her faith-
ful performance of her engagements ; but as we had sacri-
ficed so much money already, and as Greece had not fulfilled
her engagements, and as the Government of Greece Was
contrary to the spirit and feelings of the people, then it be-
came a serious question whether they ought to grant anY
further sums of money in support of a despotic Govern' ment, and against the feelings of that people whose good
opinion we were desirous to conciliate. After the conduct
of Russia he saw no reason why we should throw away our
money for such a purpose. Greece was, in point of fact'
far too poor for a Monarchy. The only Government for
that country was a Federative Government.
Mr. B. HOY opposed the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER com-
plained of the indiscriminate abuse of. Russia which fell
from the Noble Lord (Lord D. Stur4rt) on all occasions' He denied that this was a proposition made in favour of
Russia, but it was a proposition from which Russia ;tself
dissented, and therefore the Noble Lord was certainly mis-
taken in his chief ground of objection. He called on the
Committee to consider whether, if they now refused this
advance, if they were to cut off all the resources of Greece
at one blow, there was much probability of their obtaidng
the repayment of the two-thirds of the loan which they,.
had already advanced ? He thought as a
question 0'
finance it would be a most unwise act, and as a
question
of policy a most cruel act. He should certainly support
the resolution.
Major BEAUCLERK having lived in Greece, could
bear testimony to the anti-monarchical feeling of the Greeks'',
The Greeks were Republicans, and whether Hon. Gentle"
met, liked Republicans or not, such was the fact. The
Hon. and Gallant Member entered into a review of the re.'
cent affairs of Greece, and declared it to be his opinion
that it was impossible to force a Monarchical Government on Greece, and therefore that the best service the Houle•
could do to the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs, was
to negative his motion. It was in consequence of Russia
finding that she could not succeed in establishing a kingly;
Government in her interest in Greece—in consequence et
her finding that a German and English party had sprung
tip—(" Hear, hear," from Lord Palmerston)—there, that
Russia had withdrawn from her engagements, and left the
burden of fulfilling them on England. If they voted this
money it would only be for Russian purposes, and he should
therefore oppose it.
Mr. T. BARING opposed the motion.
Dr. BOWItING could not agree with the Hon. Gen'
tleman in his approbation of Russian policy, which was
decidedly barbarous with respect to Greece. He (lid not
think that it was the policy of Russia to tranquilize Greece in reality, or that the advance of 200,000/. more would
effect that desirable object, or insure the bona fide inde-
pendence of that State. If the Hon. Gentleman would
modify his motion so as to admit of a little delay in exa-
mination he would not oppose it.
Lord SANDON did not agree with Hon. Gentlemen
who were inclined to depreciate the financial and agricul-
tural condition of Greece, and who asserted that there wag o°'
thing to be hoped from that country in the scale of European
Powers. The Noble Lord read an extract from the work
of the Rev. Mr. Wordsworth, stating the improved state
of Athens, where very lately half an acre of land was sold.
for 300/. He felt it his duty to support the motion.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG had consideredthe question deeply,
and lie thought the Russian Aml'Atssador's view of assisting
Greece in her financial and P:,;litary difficulties by the aP-
plication of small sums ar:nually was far more correct al
politic than that of the Noble Lord. On every view °
the case, whether 'looking to the policy of not allowing
Russian influence to act uncontroulled in this matter, or
to the treaty by which we were bound to take part in the
preservation of the tranquillity and independence of Greece,
he thought it would be exceedingly inconsistent and ii
politic in this country to withdraw its aid, or to attempt
to pursue a separate line of policy with respect to eoat
State,

Mr. GOULBURN felt it out of his power to co'acur in
tho policy of the Noble Lord, as it went to establiSh a Go;
vernment inapplicable to the present political state
1:"
Greece, and not at all in accordance with the. feelings °r
interests of its inhabitants. He believed that, notwitlk"
standing what had been insinuated, Russia was prepared 1°
fulfil its engagenients, in strict accordance with the terms
of the treaty, and under circumstance% calculated to render
the contributions for the benefit erg Greece most effective.
It would, therefore, appear peeulliarly injurious to the cha-
racter of England and its ml interests, with respect to