The Sun.
London, England, 1838-02-21 00:00:00

TUI E SUN, LONDON, WEDNES DA 17, FEi.ItUAB V 21, 1838.

not be. employed in a more useful field ; and it was with the
view or- contributing to the cessation of Patch atrocities as
these related that he had come forward to sanction the resolu-
tions which had been proposed. —( Hear, hear.)
Lord GLENELG said that there could be no doubt of the
importance of the subject to which the Noble and Learned
Lord had called the attention of the House, but there might
be some difference as to the means which should be taken to
accomplish the objects which he had in view. The Noble
Lord had described one of the most debasing traffic that
could afflict hilminity—a traffic, the existence of which had
been viewed by this country with the greatest horror. We
had sacrificed our rational interests in the great cause of
humanity, but the moral feeling of the country had been ad-
vanced and elevated. Since that period the efforts of this
country had been constantly devoted to the great purpose of
surd ressing the slave trade throughout the world. At the
close of the war, one of the great objects of this nation was
to bind all Europe in one compact, finally to put down the
slave trade. Tl:at was the object at the Congress at Vienna.
At that period the slave trade was universal. The powers
who united in pronouncing its condemnation were Eng_
land, Russia, Austria, Prussia, Portugal, and Spain, Stec_
den, and France.--( Hear. hear.) Spain had been proverbial
for centuries for transactions of this nature, and she at first
entered into an engagement with England to abolish the slave
trade, except in her colonial possessions, and subsequently
gave net only the right of search, not only the mixed corn.
mission (which meant a commission of combined judicature),
but ale() two most important articles, the equipment article and
the breaking up article. She had also given this country the
complete power of executing the treaties into which she had
entered. The consequence was, that no Spanish flag was
now said to cover the slave trade. Another great power was
France, who had acceded to all the treaties made with Spain,
with the single exception of the mixed commission, because
France had declared, that it was a principle of French law
that no French subject should be tried except by a tribunal
purely French. Portugal also pledged herself to abolish the
slave trade, reserving the trade with her Transatlantic poi-
seesions, and this country had assigned her a debt of 600,0001.,
Vesicles the payment of 300,0001. which had been given as a
compensation for losses ; but as the treaty was to be executed
by Portuguese authorities, it was a dead letter. Den-
mark, Tuscany, Naples, and Sardinia had acceded to the
treaty with France ; and, it was believed, that in a short
time Belgium would also. As to Russia, Austria, and
Prussia, they had been invited, and had declared their per-
fect readiness to accede to a treaty precisely of the same
nature. But, after all, the great resource was—first, the
power of execution, and still more the moral sense and feeling
of the nation that entered into the treaty. At one time the
sympathy in France was entirely in favour of the slave trader ;
but at this moment there was no slave trading under the
French flag. Such a retrospect ought to animate our efforts ;
and he did not hesitate to assert that one of the great reasons
assigned for this improvement had been the moral effect of
the example of England. flow did we stand with regard to
the New World? With the United States we had no treaty.
That country had felt itself bound not to concede the principle
of the right of search ; but there had been treaties with
Mexico, Chili, and Colombia. Brazil, he was sorry to say,
had long resisted our efforts. The Noble Lord then referred
to an Address which had been presented to the Crown in the
year 1821, in which complaint was made of most of those
Powers whom lie had now mentioned as being parties to the
treaties. With respect to the present Address what expecta-
tion could there be of succeeding in it? lie ventured to think
that an appeal of this nature to France and the United States
would not be successful. France had already told us that she
would not agree to the mixed commission ; and the United States
was still less likely to agree, having refused the right of search.
He did not see that the motion could lead to any practical re-
sult, because Pootugal had already passed the necessary law,
and Spain was prepared to do so at any time. He thought,
however, that it was of importance that the House of Lords
should on the present occasion show that the faith of the
treaties and the rights of humanity were not forgotten. For
this purpose he should move an address in place of that moved
by the Noble and Learned Lord—an address which he sin-
cerely hoped, would be adopted by the House. The Noble
Lord then read the proposed address, which was to the effect
" That that House continued to feel the deepest anxiety for the
total abolition of the nefarious traffic in slaves throughout the
world—that their Lordships regretted to find that, notwith-
standing the treaty entered into by Portugal, the Portuguese
flag still extensively maintained the traffic, and expressive of
their opinion that Portugal was bound in good faith to consent,
without further delay, to such additional stipulations as were
necessary for the complete fulfilment of the treaty." He now
came to the resolutions of the Noble'and Learned Lord. In the
first place the Noble Lord had recommended the abolition of
head money to the captors of slave ships, and the substitution of
an equivalent calculated upon the tonnage of the vessel. At pre-
sent the effect of the law was, that where slaves were on board
a captured ship, the captors received more than where there
were none. In the first case they received so much per head ;
in the last there was an allowance according to tho tonnage of
the vessel. The Noble and Learned Lord had proposed the
abolition of head-money altogether, and the substitution of a
tonnage. With respect to the tonnage, that subject was
already under the consideration of Government, and it
was proposed to increase the amount of tonnage. But lie
could not agree in the Noble Lord's proposition to abolish
head-money. He thought the Legislature were bound not to
take away any of the inducements that would operate on the
minds of the individuals engaged in the capture, but that the
slaves should have the advantage of even the meanest motives
to their emancipation from suffering. Not that he meant to
infer that such motives were required in order to induce those
men to persevere earnestly in that duty. The Noble and
Learned Lord next recommended the establishment of steamers
on the African coast, with letters of marque, for the purpose of
stopping the trade at its source, these steamers to act under the
control of the Royal cruisers. The suggestion as to the use of
steam-vessels well deserved the attention of the Admiralty.
The obstacle, however, was not the want of steam-vessels,
but the want of all right and jurisdiction to act on the coast,
because Portugal had not executed the necessary treaty.
( Bear.) He objected strongly to the proposition to give let-
ters of marque. Many men would, no doubt, be found ready
to embark in the enterprise, but would they not after a time
become themselves open to the suspicion of carrying on a
traffic in slaves for their own profit?
Lord BRO ITC HAM--They would act under the controul
of the Government cruisers.

Lord GL ENE LG questioned whether that controul could
ever be sufficiently active and vigilant to preclude the possibility
of evasion under the peculiar circumstances of the coast in ques-
tion. But there was another and a stronger objection to grant-
ing the letters of marque. This was that it would be contrary
to the treaties, which expressly provided that only ships of the
Royal Navies of the respective countries should be engaged in
the suppression of the trade. If England grant©d letters of
marque other countries would follow the example ; and surely
we should not be gainers by the adoption of such a system.
Besides, interminable disputes would arise between the dif-
ferent nations on the score of the proceedings of their respec-
tive vessels, which might, under peculiar circumstances, lead
to dangerous,and important consequences.—( hear.) He now
came to anodes portion of the Noble and Learned Lord's
speech—that which related to the negro apprenticeship sys-
tem. The present was not the occasion for entering at any
great length into the question; but it was, nevertheless, ne-
cessary for him to say a few words as to the views and inten-
tions of her Majesty's Government on the subject. He quite
agreed with his Noble Friend that it could not be truly said
that the condition of the apprentice was worse than that hf
the slave had been. lie thought, on the contrary; that the
apprentice had been on the whole a gainer. This view was
confirmed as well by the reports on their Lordships' table,
as by tho personal experience of all who had visited the
West India colonies. But did he deny that there were still
great grievances ? D.d he state that the Noble and Learned
Lord had exaggerated in his statements ? No. Deeply
did he grieve to have to admit (and he really would nut
make the confession were it not forced upon him) that
grievances and evils still prevailed in the West India
islands, but more -especially in Jamaica, to a very seri-
ous extent, He was bound to say that the whole negro
race had exhibited great docility since the passing of the
Emancipation Act ; that they had borne the chalgo with
great moderation and astonishing calmness. The object of
the Legislature in establishing the intermediate state of ap-
prenticeship was, to combine the freedom of the negro with
the preservation of the interests of the planter. Having
granted the planters the right to continue the labour of the
negroes during a certain number of years, the Legislature
was bound to secure the negroesi protection, that their con-
dition should be as happy and secure as though they had oh-
toined complete freedom. While lie was prepared to
admit
that these objects d not been fully secured in working out
the Emancipation Act, he yet could not refrain from saying
that the agitation of the question in the Colonies had been
mo 1 injudicious and injurious. It had produced and kept
alive a mutual distrust, and tended to excite and maintain a
spirit of animosity between the planters and the negroes.
This went to destroy the harmony upon which the whole plan
was founded. In the minds of the planters a suspicion of
the intentions and impartiality of the British Legislature was
produced, while a feeling of resistance and hatred was en-
gendered among the peasantry, who had gradually been con-
forming their feelings to their new situation. He appealed to
all those who had practical experience on tbo subject whe-
ther to abolish apprenticeship at once would not have been a
much worse evil than even the evils he was now deploring.
He felt, however, as he hed already observed, that this country
was bound to see full justice done to the negroes ; that having
entered into a solemn compact to preserve their rights during
six years, we were bound to provide for their safety and happi-
ness during their intermediate state, Ile lamented to have to
say that very great obstacles had been thrown in the way of
the due performance of that compact, although the conditi
of the apprentice was un loubtedly an improvement upon that
of the slave. The visiting Magistrates have met with every
possible obstacle to the due dischaege of their duties. These
obstacles, though not atneunting perhaps to illegality, were
nevertheless such as effectually prevented the due perforrnaece
of the trust reposed in them by the Legislature. It was true
that Magistrates had been by every possible means excluded
from the d:stricts where the apprentices were most ()p-
-i reused. The course of justice had in every possible way
been impeded. Much oppression had undoubtedly taken
place in the workhouses. The Magistrates were excluded,
and the unfortunate victims were said to be undergoing the
workhouse discipline, when in fact they were expiating in
horrid tortures the crime of having been emancipated. But
on the other hand there had been great exaggeration=. Under
these circumstances an individual ( Captain Tisdel, as we un-
derstood) had been sent out by Government to Jamaica to in-
qui: e into and report the real facts. His report would be re-
ceived in April, and until then the Government could do no-
thing. - He felt, however, that to see to the due performance
of die contract entered into by the Legislature, was the
1 bounden duty of Government. Another circumstance that

• materially affected the comfort of the negroes was, the distri-
bution of the hours of leteeer. An alteration had been male
from the eine hours system of labour to eight hours, the effect
of which was to deprive the labourer of his half Friday. Ano-
ther mode in which the intentions of the framers of the Act
lied been defeated, was in the classification adopted by the Co-
lonial Legislature of the prmdial and non-prsedial apprentices ;
those who were to be free in 1f338, and those who were to be
freed in 1840 In all the Colonies, except Jamaica, laws had
been passed classifying the labourers in a manner accordant
with the spirit of the Act. Ia Jamaica a law of the kind
was passed which he (Lord Glen°lg) had been obliged to dis-
allow. No new law had been introduced since ; but he felt
that the Government were bound to see that the keel assembly
redressed the existent abuses. All redress ought preferably
to come from the assembly, in order to secure the good feel-
ing of the people. Every passible obstruction had been
thrown in the way of the special magistretes. S )rne had been
fined, and the Governor had indemnified them ; but what could
indemnify them for the suffering of mind and the disgrace at-
tending such a state of things? Ile repeated now what he
had said two years ago—that the British Legislature were
bound to make good their solemn compact, and if their appli-
cation to the Colonial Legislature were not successful, he
should then feel bound formally to apply to Parliament to en-
force the Act of Emancipation. When, in the month of No-
vember,he informed there that, although he was nut prepared to pro.
the parties interested were with him ( Lord Glenelg)
e
condition of the population, or appeal to Parliament to enforce
pose
t twh c abolition
of a
n the pdo)rleonntiiesaclLhei pgi yet,slatt that
e
tothe Govern_
gout ameliorate ovetrlns
the Emancipation Act. That time had now arrived. No-
thing was to be hoped from the colonial authorities, and the
British Parliament must be applied to. With regard to the
workhouse system, the law of Jamaica on that subject ought
not to be mixed up with a question that only related to ap-
prentices; because any law for the improvement of the we:I:-
house system must be a permanent measure. The measure
he proposed to submit to Parliament would have for its ob-
ject to redress the grievances of the apprentices, and in
the mean time instructions had been sent out, tending to mi-
tigate those grievances—that the Special Magistrates should
have the right to enter, not only the workhouses, but all other
places where apprentices might be concealed from public in-
spection—that all such places should be laid open to the Spe-
cial Magistrates. This arrangement would materially tend
to check, if not to put an end to those evils of which the an-
prentieee so justly complained. The measure also ptoposed
to enact that the Governor, by proclamation, should arrange
the hours at which the punishment of a sieve must take place.
With respect to those indulgences and allowances which the
apprentices were entitled to in a state of slavery, an impor-
tant amendment was proposed to be adopted in the present
system, that it should be in the power of the Governor, when
he saw fit, to enforce the concession of those allowances
and indulgences. With respect to manumission, he thought
it might be proper to enable the Governor to introduce into
Jamaica something of the same system which had been in-
troduced into the Crown Colonies. It was also proposed that
in the ease of legal measures of a vexatious character being
taken against the Special Magistrates, that the Governor should
have the power of arresting the progress of such measures ;
and in cases where the special magistrates were subjected to
pay penalties the governor should, if he saw fit, report such
cases to the Government at home, in order that it might de-
termine, on due consideration here, whether such penalties
and the expenses consequent thereon should be repaid. This
would relieve the Special Magistrates from the terror under
which they at present exercised their duties. The same mea-
sure would provide that, ie the case of non-prsedial appren-
tices, measures should be taken that they should have full op-
portunity to know their real state, in order to enable them to
claim their rights, and also that an important revision should
take place of the classification list. If the classification in
Jamaica proposed to the Governor should be considered to
he satisfactory, then that he should sanction the passing
of the Act ; but if it was not satisfactory then that he
should adopt the classification system of some of the Crown
Colonies. The security thus given to the Special Magis-
trates, and the right of admission on their part into work-
houses, and all other houses where apprentices were placed,
would, he apprehended, naturally check the existing griev-
awsr,coeng in anys;but,fpulerathee,r, it was proposed that, if The Governor
was satisfied that if any individual apprentice was suffering
he should have the power, by the exercise
of his own discretion, to make that person free altogether.—
(Cheers.) This, he trusted, would have a material effect. It
would put an end at once to the disgusting and degrading
practice which existed of men flogging females in these places.
Nothing was more revolting to the minds of the people of this
country than the system of flogging, which was degrading in
the highest degree. The Abolition Act was set at nought and
laughed to scorn by the men who had been masters of slaves,
and who were the men at whose discretion this punishment was
administered? Br men who had been convicts for life, who had
lost every feeling of honour, and who, in spite of the law against
flogging females, continued the practice; but he would go fur-
ther, and say that flogging an apprentice at all was a stain upon
their legislation. To retain the use of the whip was the badge
and curse of slavery. Ho could state that in many of the West
India islands it had been all but abolished. In the Bahamas
for many months there had been no flogging, until within the
last few months there had been two or three instances; but in
all the islands there had been a great diminution of the prac•
tice, and in Guiana, where the law did not apply, the practice
was almost unknown. Then let their Lordships declare that
at a certain period, the practice of flogging apprentices should
cease. A proposition to this effect it was his intention to in-
troduce into the Bill which it was his intention to submit for
their Lordships' adoption. Such were the general provisions
of the measure which he was about to introduce, and he
trusted their Lordships would be of opinion that, inasmuch as
the House of Assembly of Jamaica had neglected to perform
its duty, the period had arrived at which to assert the autho-
rity of Parliament. He trusted his Noble and Learned
Friend would not insist on pressing his resolution to a division.
The Duke of WELLINGTON had listened with the
greatest attention to the statement just made to them by the
and he agreed with him that from the
rcßillte for the abolition of the slave trade had
greatest cfiorts had been made by all the
ernsients of this country, and most particularly
bhlaBdl4himinselofrdbeere tobeen
carry
employedtha
at
s abo-
litionthesbue Noblece cn periode s Baron
vat aecrwtoGehnii
loc,:hpet
different Congresses with foreign
aestntintillecs'leeace since 1815, at all of which he
his Noble Friend the late Lord Castle-
yo,aieivesretosi
ern.yrwot ercroxahl'etechCrdt landtm Englandoeti ntanh.
taken
p
reagh, in order to carry into execution all the measures adopted
by the British Parliament. He also agreed with the Noble
Baron in respect to all those details into which Le had en-
tered at so much length. But, unfortunately, it happened
that we had had the strongest prejudices to contend with,
both as regarded our own objects, and as regarded the Go.
vernments ef our allies ; and until 1319, 1820, 1821, and
even a later period, no great progress was made in negotiating
treaties with them to carry the abolition of the slave trade
into effect. He likewise agreed with the Noble and Learned
Lord in the statement which he had made in respect to the
horrors by means of which thir trade was carried on, and by which
it was attended in all its stages. He knew not whether those
horrors in hisli n theist piirticttlaro view, were V
ioerrensuch
and as tli
chains e o; lbeoatnd this Learned
iedid
Lord had stated them to be in respect to casting individuals
kirntoowt,htehaseta havinghe had been authorized to state, and that he did
state to one of the Congresses which he had attended, that
those unfortunate persons were confined in casks with their
and that those casks were seetnhafltoantoinglepssastthtalnteftr'oesm-
pursuit of the elavertseltiii
pfsr.o in taeth
irons upon them ; that a number of casks hind Loon cast into
eh asdh
oprreosv eodf
neighbouring islands
the sea;
hear.) That point, he repeated, was
proved beyond all dispute before one of the congresses, which
t6eAoNofer, tor:
eyoi eaoy stetoalottri
.stBLf,aooc,(sot
ehi0o10::00.
of
ef
rst that
America C o
werenga edxsis)
theo,
Wes-
sels which were in
he had lied the honour of attending on behalf of this country.
Under such eircurnstancee lie should he happy to concur in any
measure which should tend to put an end entirely to this prac-
tice.a.-( Ilcar, hew.) He was very much afraid, however, that
the measure new proposed by the Noble and Learned Lord
was not exactly calculated to produce the effect which the
Noble tired Learned Lord anticipated from it. The proposi-
tion of the Noble and Learned Lord was, that their Lordships
should present an address to her Majesty in order to
beforein
Uniteelio)
hrweFr'irtaNrnl eacjafceleyat yns,dy, aacsnf dnSe lc)ea
procure
tst neces-
sary, rsettih'rti'ased trade
otftul ehsceel
ridrea(Sic yta.t
pro-
posed to her by a solemn address to interfere with the Govern-
ments of foreign powers for any given object, that object
should be accurately defined, and that there should be no doubt
as to the meaning which their Lordships had in view, and which
it was their intention to convey to foreign powers Ile begged,
therefore, to know what wits the meaning of the word " piracy,"
de
s
not this ihspi country,racountry.ey, o of which
Iv andhlii.ceil which
hbeggedtpl
ut!noiirsithLnnoc;rtetd:sthhwi apats
and especially what was the meaning of it as attached to the slave
ich
ime
e
tcsvrrbt
s, w attached theas
be meaningt
o inflictedt e
to
-on the subjects of this country in foreign countries, in France,
in Spain, in Portugal, in the United States. Ile begged also
to know what was the punishment which it was supposed that
those countries would allow to be inflicted on their subjects
here, if they should happen to be convicted in any of our
Courts of that crime? These were questions which he thouOt
their Lordships should be able clearly to answer and define
before they voted an Address to her Msjesty, calling upon her
to propose to other Powers to concur with her in declaring
this crime to be piracy. Ile would now advert to the first
resolution moved by the Noble and Learned Lord, in re-
spect to the rewards to be given to the captors for the
capture of slaves, or rather of vessels engaged in the slave
trade. This was a question on which 17e thought
.that
their Lordships should carefully avoid originating any opi-
nion. It was a question which belonged especially to the
Executive Government, and ought to be settled by her Ma-
jesty with the advice of the Lords of the Admiralty. It was a
question, too, which had reference to the disposal of money,
on which it was, in his opinion, desirable that the House of
Lords should not originate any reselution. In respect to the
second resolution of the Noble and Learned Lord on this ques-
tion, namely, that of issuing letters of marque to enable pri-
vate individuals to employ steam-vessels to capture slave ships
he thought that the argument of the Noble Baron oppesite.
was Perfectly unanswerable. According to our treaties with
all foreign Powers, especially France, it would he impossible
for us to authorize such vessels to be employed in such a ser-
vice. Under these circumstances, he thought their Lord-
ships would not and ought not to recommend her Majesty to
adopt this resolution of the Noble and Learned Lord. In
respect to the five last resolutions of the Noble and Learned
Lord, he confessed that it wile with the greatest pain thet
he had heard the speeches both of the Noble and Learned
Lord and of the Noble Baron opposite. He had been in hopes
that, after the Noble Baron had found himself under the ne-
cessity of proposing to their Lordships the enactment of a law
to carry into execution the Slavery Abolition Act, the Colo
nial Assemblies generally, and most particularly the Colonial

Assembly of Jamaica, would have proceeded frankly to
csrry into execution all the measures which wore necessaiv to
deal fairly with the apprentices, and with this 'country which
had advanced so large a sum of money to give compensation
for the injury done to them and their property. He confessed
that he was happy to hear the Noble Baron state his intention
of proposing to Par Helmut a measure which would enable •
the Government to sre that those arrangements were strictly
carried into execution, because as such was his intention, their
Lordships would not he wider the necessity of pass-ng these
resolutions to effect the same object. lle confessed that he
should be very unwilling to vote for the resolutions of the
Noble and Learned Lord, instead of having it in prospect, as
he now had, to vote for the Bill, which he understood was to
be proposed by Government, having the same object. Ile
agreed with what the Noble Boron had stated respecting the
Slavery Abolition Act; he could not, however, agree that, be-
cause the Colonial AesemUlies had not done all they ought to
have done to carry the provisions of the Parliament into execu-
tion, and because in some respects those provisions had not pro-
duced all the benefit we expected—he could not agree, how-
ever, that after the Ist of August, 1838, ell these apprentices
ought to be declared free. He did not think that that was a
fair mode of proceeding. Under these circumstances he should
really feel himself compelled to vote against the resolutions of
the Noble and Learned Lord if ho continued to propose them
to the notice of the House.
The Marquis of SLIGO was almost inaudible in the gal-
lery, but we understood hint to express his thanks to his Noble
Friend the Secretary for the Colonies for the very satisfactory
answer which he had given to the statements of die Noble and
Learned Lord below him. He thought that the time was
now fully come when the Imperial Parliament was bound to
take measures to enforce its own enactments. He hoped that
the Noble and Learned Lord would give up his idea of divid-
ing the House on these resolutions, in order that the Colonies
might clearly understand that their Lordships were unanimous
on this subject.
Lord BROUGHAM said that as he perceived that the
debate had now come to a close, he should avail himself ©f
the few minutes which it was the usual course in this as
well as in the other House of Parliament to extend to the
proposer of any measure, whatever might be the ultimate
decision of their Lordships upon the propositions before them,
for the purpose of making one or two observations upon the
statements by whirls his opinions had been attempted to be
impugned, and by which his propositions had been opposed.
He would pass over a very great portion of the statement of
his Noble Friend ( Lord Glenelg) upon the subject of the abo-
lition of the Slave Trade, because the whole history of which
he had treated of the means which had been employed by
this country to prevail on foreign powers to abandon that exe-
crable traffic had this prominent and striking feature in it,
that though they showed what indeed no one ever denied—
for the man must be deprived of his memory to have for-
gotten it, and of Isis reason to have expected otherwise—
that though France had joined with us, and Spain had given
her tardy and reluctant accession, and Holland had assented
to become a party to abolish that detested traffic, yet, as long
as there remained Portugal opposed to us, it signified not if
France had joined ten times over, Spain as often, and Hol-
land ten times over too ; for that the great wrong-doer, the
great criminal, the atrocious sinner of all—Portugal—had
refused to join; nay, even it a much feebler, if there were a
feebler government than that of Portugal—according to the
logic and the principles of the foreign policy of his Noble
Friend at the head of the Colonial Department, and also, as
it seemed, of another Noble Friend of his in another place
who was at the head of the Foreign Department, and who
had given his adherence to that policy—according to their
joint principle, even the accession of all the world besides—if
a less Power titan Portugal—if Tuscany, Genoa, or that great
commercial country Austria—( Laughter)—and all those
other slave-trading countries of Europe were to refuse—
even that accession would be absolutely nugatory, null,
and of no effect. What signified it to him, when these
criminals were steering abroad as notorious as the sun,
polluting land and sea with their crimes, laying
waste Africa with their robberies and murders—what
signified it to him to be told that England had
at length wearied out by constant appeals—those other nations
who were induced to join the treaty of 1821, and that of the
four States who were formerly criminal, three had ceased to
be criminal now ? Why, if that fourth State continued to be
criminal, and if from 60,000 to 80,000 miserable negroes (as
their Lordships had been informed) were carried yearly over
to America—in other words, if 60,000 or 80,000 victims of
this horrible felony were yearly torn from Africa and sold as
slaves, what did it avail in argument to say that France and
Spain and Holland had abandoned that traffic ? " But," said
his Noble Friend (Lord Gleneig), " Portugal is so weak,
that there is no getting her to give up the slave trade." If
she had been as strong as France, what, then, would have been
the argument? " Oh," it would have been said, " Portugal
is so strong, that there is no venturing to provoke her by
daring to call upon her to give up the slave trade." So
that, be she weak or be she strong, there was no help ;
she must be allowed with impunity to pollute the land
with her crimes, and the sea with her piracies. But with
the same logic his Noble Friend had argued, that if he re-
quired Portugal to give up the slave trade, and if she
should give it ug, there would be other States still opposed to
its abolition; and his Noble Friend cited Austria—dis-
interested Austria, with all her colonies, and with all her
slave plantations, with all her vessels engaged on the African
coast, as well as in other places—(Laughter)—but which no
black slave ever heard of before ! Then there was Prussia,
then the Hans Towns—(Laughter)—then Sicily—( Renewed
laughter)—and then Tuscany. Yes, his Noble Friend act's-
ally quoted Tuscany as a part of that confederacy which ex-
isted for the upholding of the Slave Trade. Why, he might
have gone to the Grecian Seas, and have enumerated the
Greek pirates—he might have referred to Algiers and to
Tunis; and if the Bey of Tunis, or any other State which
had a flag at all, were only reluctant to give up the Slave
trade, that one flag might set France, Spain, Austria, Eng-
land, Holland, Portugal, Genoa, ay, and even Tuscany—
(Laughter)—at defiance. Though France, and Spain, and
Portugal had yielded to your eetreaties, yet if one State, how-
ever powerless, refused, the Slave Trade should ride trium-
phant over the world; because, according to his Noble
Friend's argument, one flag was as good as one score. Was
that the way, he would ask their Lordships, in which they treat-
ed Algiers? No ! They summoned Algiers to give up piracy,
though their outrages were not half so numerous, their crimes not
one-hundredth part so black or so offensive to all the feelings
of human nature; yet they summoned her. Algiers had
pilfered and pillaged the ships of other nations—crimes
which with us were not one-twentieth part so criminal as
those committed by Portugal, and yet we sent a squadron
and bombarded Algiers; and the consequence was, that piracy
ceased. He had been told by his Noble Friend that there was
no chance of the French Government agreeing to this pro-
ceeding with respect to making the slave trade piracy, because
said his Noble Friend, the French Government refused to al-
low its subjects if taken in the act of committing piracy to be
tried before any tribunal except its own. But because a de-
clsratory law had been obtained from the other powers on this
subject, did it follow that there might not most easily be in-
serted a clause providing that the French, or even the whole
of the foreigners, should lee tried, when captured, before the
Courts of their own country? Ile admitted that this would
not be so satisfactory a manner of doing it as that of having
the persons captured tried at the Sessions of the Criminal
Court. at the Old Bailey. But, adverting again to the argu-
ment of his Noble Friend, he would ask were they
to listen to this logic for the first time, that a
country need only to be weak in order to be released from the
obligation of its own treaties ? We paid Portugal 600,000/.
' by way of loan ; and as we converted the 15,000,000/. to the
Wrest India planters into a gift, so we afterwards converted
the 600,000/. into a gift. But not satisfied with that, as we
swelled the 15,000,0001. up to 20,000,0001. by way of gift
to the planters, so we made up the 600,0001. to 900,0001: to
Portugal also as a gift. But the parallel did not end here.
We gave the 20,000,0001. to the planters for nothing ; for it
turned out that instead of sustaining a loss by the Emancipa-
tion Act they gained by it. In like manner we gave Portu-
gal 900,0001. to compensate them for the loss of the slave
trade ; but, instead of losing it, their trade had greatly in-
creased ; and all that he now asked was, not that they shoeld
refund the 900,0001.—that he conceived, would sarpass the
efforts of all the financial statesmen ia the distinguished
aearchv that now reigned upon the banks of the Tagus—
( Laueliter)—perhaps in courtesy he ought to have said Mo-
narchy, but he entertained too great a respect for a monar-
chical government to use that expression in reference to Por-
tugal at the present moment—no, he did net ask them to re-
fund the money ; all he asked was that they should be urged to
perform the contract which has cost us nearly a million sterling.
Let them be told in very significant language that they were
bound to perform the conditions upon which that money was
given to them ; and if they were not di-posed to perform them
they must, he they weak or be they strong, abide by the con-
sequences of their conduct.—( Hear, hear.) Let that lan-
guage once be used. Let the Bsitish Minister but speak in-
telligible language, and I will answer for it (said the Noble •
and Learned Lord) you will r;-t
have again to complain of
the weak power of Portugal setting, while objecting to fulfil
their own treaty, the might of your pewee at defiance. He
was told that Spain also did not faithfully adhere to the terms
of the treaty. The Spaniards had cthi r things to be answer-
able for besides not carrying treaties into effect. Was it, or
was it not the fact that the Governor of Monte Video re-
ceived a large sum of money as a bribe for allowing 2,000 of
what he called colonists, that Was, African negroes and in
chains, and whom, therefore, he (Lord Brougham) called
slaves, to enter the port of Motile Video ? That had been
publicly mentioned, it hod been printed in all the journals of
northern Europe, and had never once beets denied. He
firmly believed the statement, an.l he tool; it for granted that
a representation had been made to the Government of Spain,
whether weak or strong.
A Nouen Lone on the opposition benches. without quitting
his scat, observed that M irate Video no longer belonged to
Spain.
Lord BROUGHAM—ExactIy so. But lie desired and
wished to know whether any representation had been made
against that faithless breach of a treaty ; because it was, on the
very face of it, one of the most disgusting artifices that he had
ever yet heard used to defeat a solemn obligation Then, as
to the manner in which our own money hail been bestowed:
when he saw a suns of money so applied he owned he ;vas as-
tonished that a single voice should have been raised, as his
Noble Friend had raised his voice, and Cm Node Duke, he was
sorry to hear, hail followed his Noble Friend, in favour of what
were called the claims of the planters (here the Marquis of
Sligo made a private communication to the Noble and Learned
Lore). His Noble Friend (continued Lord Brougham) had
reminded him that before quitting the subject he ought to say
a wed respecting piracy. The Noble Duke had asked what
by the law of nations, constituted piracy, and what was its
punishment ? Ile could only say that, according to the law of
nations, common slave trading was always considered piracy.
If on the way from Fernando Po, for instance, to any point of

the coast, be it three or be it thirty miles distant from th
I shore, a boat were found with one slave only Os board, and
that slave were taken by and carried on .board another vessel,
exactly according to the very self-same process by which that
slave was captured, you can neat that es an act of piracy by
the law of nations ; and anybody taking the slaver who had
done that act, were he a fiortriguese, a Spaniard, a French-
rran, or an Englishman, migl:t take him home and proceed
against him as aph ate. If this were done beyond three miles
of the shore, it would, according to the strict letter of the law,
be piracy; but if it happened within that distance of this
shore, it would only be reckoned a common man-stealing, and
if the violence were accompanied with loss of life, a common
murder, and no longer piracy. Well, then, how was piracy
to be dealt with ? He never could see the use of introducing
slave trading into en Act for abolishieg capital puaishments
for certain offences which in no one feature resembled
slave trading. The rule established by that Act was, that
offences should cease to be capital only if unattended with
vialk nee and blood. Niw, slave trading was from its very
nature attended by violence end blood ; and he never was of
opinion that the capital puni4nnent by that enactment should
have been taken away f, orn slate tra ling, and he had no ob-
jection whatever to see the capital nature of that offence re-
stored. If it were proposed to declare slave trading a piratical
offence, he should have no hesitation whatever in so far
amending the law of this country, and in restoring it to the
rank which it always ought to have maintained, by making
piracy, by the municipal law, a capital offence, as well as by
the law of nations. With respect to the arguments of his
Noble Friend, relating to head-money, anything more incon-
clusive, more inconsistent with itself, more utterly unintel-
ligible, he (Lord Brougham) had never beard advanced. His
Noble Friend had said that he had no objection to increase
the tonnage money, but he was not willing to give up the
head-money ; and that it was necessary to give an induce-
mant to the captains employed in capturing slave-vessels
with their cargoes. Why ? ue, said his Noble Friend,
it was so very disagreeable a duty ; it was so disgusting to be
on board of a slave veasel, with a cargo of slaves. If there
were two vessels, said his Noble Friend, one lad-gin with slaves.,
and the other not, the captains and crew would immediately
spy the one that was empty, and run on board, leaving the
other to escape, unless some additional inducement were held
out to them, and, therefore, it was necessary to give head-
money. And. yet these were the men—the captain and the
crew—whom he (Lord Brougham) was taunted with having
suspected of allowing anything like a sordid feeling to in-
terfere with the discharge of their public and professional
duties! The Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty
boasted that on behalf of the profession at the head of which
he was placed. Now, by the bye, he (Lord Brougham)
knew many a Gallant Admiral who would have blushed to
have heard the Noble Earl state that ho was at the head of
their profession.

Th.e Earl of MINTO—My words were, " the profession
at the head of which I had the honour to preside."
Lord BRO UG NI—No doubt the Noble Earl meant to
say that, but what he really did was—( Order, order. )
Nay, I appeal to any Noble Lord whether the Noble Earl did
not sly—

'Tie Carl of MINTO—I am perfectly willing to admit
that it is possible I may have used one word for another. I
am not accustomed to addre s your Lordships, and have
less command of words than the Noble and Learned Lord ;
it therefore is possible I may have used the word attributed
to me.

Lord BROUG HAM—Be it as it might, it was so under-
stood; and he (Lord B.) made an observation on it in his re-
ply, and no contradiction was given. But the main charge
against him (Lord )on that occasion was, how could he
suppose any thing so monstrous, so unworthy of the honour of
the naval coast service, as to suppose head-money to make
them anxious to take vessels mill slaves on board rather than
vessels that were empty ? To which his (Lord Brougham's)
answer was the grosst inconsistency of offering heal-money at
all. If the head-money was not intended to offer any induce-
ment and excitement to activity on the part of those honour-
able and gallant persons, then it was utterly useless, and com-
pletely unintelligible ; but if head-money was intended to be
useful by exciting the zeal of the coast guard, then it could
only do so at the precise moment at which alone it was ap-
plicable, namely, when they saw that a vessel bad slaves
on board, and just in proportion as it was effectual to
excite their zeal and activity, it tended to make them prefer
ships laden with slaves to ships unladen. But it now
turnA cut that that money to those who took prize-money
was nothing; and these men were to be scared from the dis-
charge of their duty, and to be entirely paralyzed by the fear
of having their senses offended by the atmosphere of a slave-
ship, and of having their feelings outraged by the sights of
suffering and of creelty that took place on board a vessel laden
with slaves. He thought that no man who took a calm and
serious view of this most important question could entertain
a shadow of doubt, that the utter cessation of head-money was
absolutely and indispensably necessary. It gave him great
pleasure that upon this subject he bad the high authority of a
Noble Lord formerly at the head of the Government with
whom he (Lord Brougham) had acted, who was once at the
head of the Foreign Department when first negotiations were
opened with foreign Powers on this subject, who brought
in a Bill for the abolition of the slave trade in 1807, and
who presided over the Admiralty during a splendid period
of the late war—be meant Earl Grey—and who felt a
great interest in this question, and just as much into-
rest in the honour and character of the navy as his
noble successor who now filled his chair, and whose opi-
nion it was, that it: was utterly impossible that head money
could be any longer a;:?wed. With respect to the amend-
ment of his Noble Friend, his (Lord Brougham's) objection
to it was, that it was not so eti.ctual nor so precise as the re-
solutions he had himself proposed. The amendment con-
tained a great deal of congratulation, ;Ind passed sentence of
acquittal and approval on the Spanish Government for the
treaty into which it had entered, and by which it had made
i,kacy criminal, whereas that treaty, as he understood, had
not yet been completed.

Lord G LEN bi L.G said that the treaty with Spain engaged
that country to pass a law making piracy criminal; but the
law had not yet been made.

Lord BROUGHAM durst say that it never would.—
( Laughter. ) He had recson to believe Beat upon this subject
a governor in one of the chief Spanish slave trading settle-
ments had been known to say, that if he had intimation that it
was really the wish of his Government to put down the slave
trade, he would put it down in eight and forty hours.
Their Lordships were aware of what was passing in one
of the Spanish colonies, Havannah ; that in Havannah
the newspapers had been prevented from notifying the
sailing of slave vessels to the cost of Africa, for
fier they should be intereepted by the English cruisers.
Unless very different steps were taken than had already been
adopted, it was clear that the slave trade must go on. lie
then wished to say one word regarding the system of slavery
in our West India Colonies. He was exceedingly glad that
her Majesty's Government had determined to bring in a Bill
to legislate on this subject, and net to leave it in the powera
of tha Colonial Assemblies. From the statement which had
been made by the Noble Lorsl,•he understood that the Bill
would comprise the several matters contained in the first five
of the rosolu for s which he had moved ; but there were ono or
two others which he had not insetted in his resolution, but
which he trusted to see embodied in the Bill. If lie had ob-
tained their Lordships' consent to the five resolutions, ho
would have certainly moved those additional ones, which he
still hoped to see carried into effect. Sonic better regulations
with respect to the administration of justice were absolutely
essential and indispensable.—( Cries of " Hear, bear.") It
was also a matter of great importance to give more powers to
the Governor. lie was well aware of the difficulty of trust-
, ing too much to the Governor. Much would depead
upon the prejudices of the individual, and much on the re-
' lation in which he stood with the LocarAssembly. To one
Governor they might safely entrust one set of powers—to
another Governor they might give another class—whilst to a
third a much more scanty authority and far greater circum-
spection is the giant were necessary. If, indeed, they could
multiply the Noble Lord so much as to give him as a Go-
vernor to each of our West India Islands--(Laughter.)
Noble Lords might laugh, but the possibility would be nu
cause of laughter in those islands—the Noble Lord's presence
would be hailed as one of the greatest blessings which
could be showered down upon the colonies.—(llear, hear,
hear.) The manly feelings of the Noble Lord, his resolu-
tion to perform Isis duty, his inflex ble determination not to be
led away from his purpose, his withdrawal from all local pre-
judices, and his intention to set himself above all the preju-
dices of the planters, although himself a planter, would lead
him (Lord Brougham) to place far greater confidence in a
good result than ho thought it possible to eact under the pro-
visions of the measure which was to be introduced. Ho owned
that his confidence of success now was very scanty, but far
be it from him to say that no good would be done. He
thought it extremely necessary, however, to give additional
powers to the inspectors, and to free them from claim's in
certain cases, for let them only see the almost inexplicable
difficulties which attended the working of the system; let
them see well the evil which happened if the stipendiary
magistrates wcr2 liable, as in the cases of Mr. Bourne arid
Captain Oldgrave—that a penalty of 6001. should be levied
on one, 890/. on the other ; or if they were indicted for
a common nuisance, li!,e Mr. Baines, for only doing
his duty. Ile would have proposed to have vested in
the Governor the power of stay hag massy like act:oni.
These and many other arrangements might be made by
the Bill ; but sorry was lie to say of the Bill (what in-
deed applied as well to his own five resolutions), that.
these and other altxrati.ms could only be regarded in the
light of palliatives and temporary expedients ; but that tho
system itself could only work for a few months —that the ma.
ctiinery must necessarily stop when the w irks were in so great
disc der—that whilst a planter bore a planter's nature, whilst
a sl ive existed in the colonies, end whilst there inns rely ds-
tinction between the iubabitatits of diff.rent colours, the at.
tempt to rend( r th's reelress of permanent utility Wes utterly
and hopelessly unavailing. The only stop which could he put
to the evil of which he--of which all —complained was at
once to follow the example already set by some of the
Cole-
nies—to abolish the entire sjstem of apprenticeship, and to
declare that all the slaves should be free front the Ist Of
August, LSV. Ile was told that this w(l3 unfair to
the philter; that the planter was the particular 01-ject
of their core. • The plant r isas undoubtedly the object of
his own care in the first instance, and for himself he
had sufficiently provided ; but le? was also to be the oh.
Jest of their Lordships' care, and that he had been too by far
oo great nit extent.
Ile (Lord Brougham) had seen the
t
r turns for which he had moved on a former night of the
appropriation of the sutrs voted, :and he must say that some
of the planters had rccerved more timer the value of the fee-
shni4
e of their estates; and if not of the whole value of the
estates themselves, yet he was sure th‘.t it ful.ounted to a
ereat part -of the value of the NJ'groes upon them. 7,0001.
lied been granted to one person, 8,000/. to aeuther ;
repeatedly 20,0001. had been paid in hard money ;