The Sun.
London, England, 1809-06-03 00:00:00

L.vol ,rl.l{lC;

11.
British Minister in America. Ordered 16 lie oh the
table, and be pfinted.
The Irish Life Annuities' Bill vas read a first;
and ordered to .be read a second time to-morrow.
Mr. R. DUNDAi r,etiohechhe Irish CustomDu;
ties and Irish Spirit Bills, which were each ordered
to be read a third time to-morrow.
The Irish Militia Bill having been reported, the
Bill with its Amendments, was ordered to be en-
grossed, and read a third time on Tuesday next: •
The report of Insolvent Debtors' Bill was re=
belted, and the Bill ordered Co be read a thirtftime.
to-morrow.

11•44,...
♦.4,111,

Mr. GRATTAN presented from the' Irish T)iitillers
a Petition .against the Spirit Suspension Intercourse,
Bill, which.having been 'ordered 16 lie' ati the table,
was directed to ,be taken into farther' consideration
on the report of the Bill.
A Message from the Lords' signified ' their Lord
ships' assent to the Irish Beer linp;Ovemerit, Eng-
lish Life Annuities, American Trade, and Irish Post
masters' Bills, with some *others of a private nature.
Mr.'HOttisea moved an Address 40 his Majesty,
that he would be graciously pleased to direst 'that
there be laid before the Hodse a Copy of the Re-
port of Proceedings of the Commissioners of Admi-
nistration for Scotland, respeCling Appeals to the
House of Peers.—Ordered accordingly.,
The Exchequer Bills, and Excise Regulation tills,
were each read a third time, passed, and ordered to
the Lords.

Lord LOVAINR moved the second reading of the
Vote of Credit Bill.

• After a few wordy from Sit T. TUUTON, who
stated, that on the third reading he would 'offer some
objeaions as far as related to Austria and Spain, he
not having been present on a former ,diiewsion, the
Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be com-
mitted to•morroW.

The Goods,Warehon,ing Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow,
The Irish Post Roads Improvement and Defence
Lands Bills were each read a'thirci time and passed.
The Colonies Penalties Bill was read a second
time and ordered for committal to-morrow.

The African Coffee Bill, went through a Corn-
mittee.—Report to be received to•tnorrow.
Upon the Report of the Resolutions of the Com-
mittee on the Judges Salaries being brought up,
Mr. WHITBREAD stated it to be his intention not to'
oppose these resolutiOns, but to give• notice, of a
motion, which on a ftitdre day he should make, to
prevent any Judges what Soever from hOlding seats
in Parliament. The Hon. Gentleman animadverted
also on the inennvenience resulting from the divi-
sion of 'the Northern Circuit between two 'Judg,.s,
although they did not both occupy the time or'Cir-
cuit which formerly one Judge did.
The CHANCELLOR of Eidascturn said, what-
ever finny be the disposition of 'Hon. GentleMen' on
subjeAs unconneaed with the present Resolutions,
this was not the time to submit it.

After a few words from mi. Wilberforce, Mr.
Baultes; nod Mr., H. Browne, tlie Resolutions were
agreed to, And a. Bill ordered accordingly.
Mr. rHARTON brought up the Report of the
British and Irish Spirit intercourse Suspeti,,,inn 1301.
The amendments were ordered:lo4v engrossed, and
the Bat to be read a' third time on l'uesday next,
when the petition presented this evening shoUld be
taken into consideration.

CAS LIGHTS.
Mr. Met Lisa moved the third reading of the
Gas Light Bill, and said he was desiroui lot the in-
sertion of five additional clatises,

SirJ. ANSTRUTHER ob,erved upon the irregular
manner of postponing a Bill for so long a time, and
then bringing it forward for the additional cliusea,
which it inny be inconvenient to diSCUSE.
_ _

• Mr. P. CAItEW said a few words on the subjerif.
Mr. D. Gionv, at considerable length, slated, that
the proposition of lighting the metropolis with gas,
Instead of oil, was one which would by its expen-
ces far exceed the present system. In one parish
(that of St. JaMeS) it was computed the additional
expenee would be.upwards of 5001. a-year, beyond
what was now paid for lighting that parish with oil.
The Hon. Gentleman moved, as an acnendment, that
the Bill be read a third titnc this day thiee months.
After a few words' from Sir l. Hall, .Mr. Babing-
ton and Mr. Thorhpson, •
Mr- WlLBERroacg, with great ability, opposed
the measure, as tendinr, to encourage a bUbble spe-
culation to the.negled ofp sober and beri9us,' pursuits.
He treated with ridicule the idea of the projeetor,
who stated that in some time the Government may
derive taxation from this system to the amount of
ten millions' and upwardsi and this same projeCtor
said, that if persons were astonisLed at the extent of
such a derivation of benefit from the system, they
had only to consider there was ten times more sub-
ject of wonder in. the diurnal'rotation of a .planet
upon its'axis.

Strangers beipg ordered to withdraw, the House
divided upop the aniendmerit.

Ayes - k
dicoes ..... - 38
Majoriii,far the A maatimeat
The Bill was consequently lost.
IRISH DISTILLERY PILL.
The'liouso went into a committe upon the Irish
Distiaery
On the clause respefting punishments, Mr. Nit-
NELL propos:xi the omissiortQf the words. "corporal
punishment" for the purpose of inierting the wordi
.r seven pars transportatioa."
-Hr. MARTIN reprobated corporal punishment as
most, tn,coustitutional, when applied to a fiscal of-
fence.

Mr.Fos'ina explained that thisexpression referred
merely tothepunishment of a misdemeanour, which
the offence was constitUteci at present by the 4th of
the King.
Mr:WitureftEAD Spt)ke Of the evil which had ari-
4enr in the Continental cnuotties of Europe, parti-
Cularly in Spain, from On. lieverity of the punish-
ments inflicted on binugglers, by which they had
been converted into armed ".banditti and assassin,.
Altere few Words from Mr. Foster, Sir 3. New-
port, Mr. Barham, and Mr. Parnell, Mr. Foster
agreed to omit the words " corporal punishment,"
leaving the clause to state in general terms, that the
offence should be ,Yisited by the punishment of a
niisdetneanour.

Several other clauses of the Bill underwent coral-
derable dikcusgion; after which, the Rouse having
been resumed the report w Bordered to be received
to•rnot row,

t,:.:
gave 'notice, that he .woutct;
Tuesday next;. itibrnik to. the House a tri )tiori-reht!,
tine to this trade. and; in ()icier feat 014
,in!giii 1,4
iti posesaion of the necessary information;, he had
now to move that certain papers should be laid he;
fore theni. Th6se Papers were—ist; .COpies Of hit
Memorials; Applications; Btc. laid befit tiid
missiotiers of the Treasury; or the Board of Trade;
sitice the Ist June, 180§, relative to the admissiori
of Foreign Sugars to home conitimption do the 'pay:
ment of British iiitopial duties, end the warrants Is•
sued by the 'treasury or Board of Trade; in Cowie:.
ritience of the same.-0d;. Copiei or ektradti of all
letters froril the Governors of our COlotties; respect:.
ing the depreciation of the produce Of these Cold,;•
.

~ .
~ .
H. ' .
After a few temhrks from Mr. usttsilot, and
Lord CASTLIRRIf4GIi, on the impropriety-ot making: '
the latter intylligetice public, the•forther inotibn vi,!iii
agiccd to, and this withdrawn. - , :'
, _
.I'UBI.IC EXPENDIttiRt.

Mr. MARTIN moved the Order of the ljay for the
House going into a'Comtnitteefor the consideratiori
of the 'Third Report of the Conitnittee,on 'Pubite
Expenditure.

The House having re-solved in the Ceriimittee,,.
Mr. MARTIN urged the necessity of taking this.
Matter into serious consideration, which, in his opi-
nion, was rendered Still more neuessary Iron' the in- I
formation they had received since he,last addressed.
twin on the subjeci, from which it appeated thatit he
Permanent Times amounted to 30,: 0(40001. while
the, interest of our National- Debt amounted to
.31,368,0001. Consequently them was an annual
defalcation of 1,268,00u1. for which the War Taxes
must be yertnanently pledged. He mentibned ibis(
to impress on the Committee the absolute neceisny
f economy
o wherever it was predicable. if this was
not adopted, the result would be, to make the In-
come Tax permanent.. This observation was the
only thing new that had occurred to him singe hts
brought his resolutions forward. All that he now •
proposed to do was, to move the first resolotion, and
in the course of moving those succeeding, to con-
trast them with the Resolutions of the Right Hon,
Chancellor of the Exchequer.- With regard to the
first resolution, he had no obje&ion to state that he.
preferred the first nsulution of the Right Hon. Clan--
denten to his own, and he consequently lied 06 he-
, sitation in adopting it, after his should be negatived:
This Resolutitan being put frotn•the Chair—
' Mr. Iluhussost rose to controvert some nth-state»
meats with respect id the finances of ,the country
into which the Hon. 'Gentleman had fallen. lie
had stated that the amount of the Pe;manent 'Dies
was opt equal to the.discharge of the imerest of the
Public Debt. This was het the case. Or) the eon-
trary, last yearthey tract voted a surplus of bet w'eerf
fouraod five million, out of the Consolidated Fund,
independent of the other heavy charges to which that
fond, was liable. The Hon. Gentleman had fallen
into this mistake trout' confounding the produce of
the PerManent Taxes with the Consolidated Vend,'
whereas the difrerence between their amounts was - '
not less ahan about eight Millions. Last year the
public charge, was thirtythree toltliott, while the •
Fond to defray it amounted to thirty-seven million. ,
This statement could admit of no dispute, as it wilt;
proved by the rettnits on their table, arid therefore it
was impossible for the Hung-Arable Gentleman to
say that the perniatient taxes MI short of the Annual
Expenditure, He did not deny that the produce of
the Reventie this year fell short of that of last year by
about 200,0091. but this was from being compared-
with a year, of great abundance, acid could ocia.pos‘
sibly be such a cause of despondency as the Ho.
bourable-Gendeman's statements went to snake it.
Mr. Huskisson then went into a detail of his-finaticial
operations.of last year in 'mortgaging one million of
the defies 91/ malt and sugar to pay a debt, losieao
allowing it to go att usual to the consolidated Feud.'
By this means there was an apparent deMicatiost
tliJ present year to that amount, which did not ex-St
in reality, and which would be found in the...receipt
of the revenue for the year 18.4 0.. With regard to
the convoy duty, that most necesAarily cease on the
re-establishment. of peace ; but it did riot follow 'bat
a considerable part of what was now raised, under
the head of Couvoy Duty 1111;i1t FlOl then be aaattl7
need tooter the denoMistatiou of Customs. There
was. no reason, then, for the despondency martite;ted
by the Flom Gentleman, but this he did not in
opposition to- the, proposition that ec,or.otny was de.
hirable; while the burdens, continued to be so i4rcat •
as they were, in hisopinioo, the House retinii..,,! no
other incitement to rehcve them by every means in
their power.
. Mr.l4AßTANexplained.
Lord FocK.STotali considered that a falla4 had
run through the whole of the statement made by
the Hon: Gdutleman opposite (Mr. Huskisson) as in
his calcOlations he had not stated the produce of new
taxes laid on in 1808 to the amount of 1,700,0001.'
The Noble Lord wits going on to point out this sup-
posed inaccuracy, when

- M 4. iit.IiKISSON rose and corredod his miscon-
ception of the matter,. $c shewed, that ‘ytiat clia
Noble. Lord intended to consider as new taxei, WAS
only a new arnulgement of the assessed taxes
ready in existence.

Mr. TIERNEY assented to the truth of this, and
at the same time thought the Hon. Mover of the re-
solutions perfedly right in taking the gronod, he had
chosen, in order to enforce the urgent neces.,ityiltere
was at present, as .well as at all times, 'to economise
in the expenditure of public money. Ht ditferecl. in
Qpinion with the last Speaker, as to the.etlect of his
mortgaging the one million of .malt duty, which
he thought would never be realised to the amount of
more than 250,0001. The Right Hon., Gentleman
therrproduced a paper of calculations, which'lle had
accidentally in his pocket, from which he entered'
into a number of statements, to chew, that if peace
took place toquorrow, our peace establishment must
amount. to 4g million per ann. without calculating on
the expence of winding up the war. To meet this
we had only. (taking it at the present rate) in in.
come. of 384 million Annually, and thus nearly 1
trillion wenld be left to be yearly provided, tor, for
whirl he knew no resource but by continuing the,
War r axes...laying on new taxes, or having re.
course to a Loan. Our present 'War Taxes, it eon.
tibued in peace; - would not produce more than four
million'; and thus to meet the annual expenditure
aVove the annual revenue, it would be rwi.essary to
continue the Property Tax at 5 per cent.
Lead Mtiaoti reoalled the attention ofthe Rouse

..1)4; to 'tie ‘1,1):1,e; were iinstices.ot the yoimtry
t),- tllc snbjett, witenthe question vas .81111-

•hatid with infoimation whenever it was obtained,
and that the exertions of Government had never
ceased to
_be diveded to the gradual and temperate

abolition of every burden on the people which came
under their cognizance. From the Yeduetion of trio
secret service, the saving to the publiewas 45,001.
per ann. and in the review he had taken, the, total
amount of the saving was uo less than two nulliOne
per ann. He, bad forgot a very material branch,
and that wait the regulation with respetl to :Navy
Bills, by which a-further saving of one million
alear, was made to the 'country. In the com-
putations Ise-bad made, he had not taken into ac-
count Abe Ordnance, Debentures, Lotteries, • and
many other sources in which patronage had beets
given up, and great savings of public moneyetfebed.
Eighteen offices held by Members of Parliament
had been abolished by Mr. Burke's Bill; anattheae
were at this moment fewer Members of Parliament
beldieg offices otwring pleasure than there were in
the House in ',b. At present there were eght-,
and-thirty Members coming under this description
for England and Scotland, and .13 !or Irelatid-ein
all 5,1 ;--4nd in 1782 there. were 57.—Gentlemen
talked of the good old times, and the corruptions
and degeneracy of the present day; .but after .what
he had shewn of their progressive state of improve-
ment with reseed to economy and influencea.and
what he had still to state on this aubjeat of
he trusted that these assertions would either not be.
so boldly made, or at least not so hastily believed. , to
alluding to tisk eubjeet he would go back to the be-
ginning of the last century, and In examining the pub-
lic records it would be found that in 1713, the pension
list amounted to 140,0001. winch, according to the
value of money in those days, as computed in the ac-
curate tables of Sir Geo.Shuckieurgh, was equivalent to
260,0001. a much greater sum than that list amount-
ed to in -1799. The Right Hon. Gentleman . then
ironically contrasted the good old times, when the
Treasury had secret and unknown patronage (bee
sides• the aeknowledged influence, some parts of
which lie bad touched upon), to the present day,
when their every act was known, .and the Bed Book
put the public in possess* of as complete informa-
tion on the aubjeet of places, pensions, &c. as any
Lord'of the Treasury could have. He turned from.
he subject to pay a tribute to the memory of that pure
and illustrious Statesman Mr. Pitt, under whose ad.
ministration it had been that these secretes well as
knoWriatotirces of patronage were given up, and these
retrenchments in the_ public expences made. The
statements he had made were not with the view of
check i leg theardOur to make further savings in t he aame
temperate Manner they had hitherto been cendutied,
and these resolutions, which to him appeared unext
ceptionable, were calculated to promote. He con-
cluded by laying it down as his opinion, that to make
the Treasury alone responsible would` be. the best
check on expenditure ot public money, and the best
meats of inducingcaution and economy..
Mr. CUEEVRY remarked on the Right Honour-
able Gentleman's having gone so far back as the
year 1713, when he came to treat of pensions. If
be had looked at later periods, he would have found
that they had increased very much since the begit-
ning of the present reign. Here hei %tent into a dee
tailed statement to prove the truth of his' position,
and said lie would not go to the philosophical trans-
aelieus on the value of money to prop his caleulae
tions. lie then adverted to the transaction by which
the late Duke of Gloucester's pension of gown. her
annum had been taken :off the 4b per Cent. Fund,
and charged on the Civil List. This, he eentended,
was done for the puypose of iucreaaing the pliroutige
of they Government, which pow disposed of
,the pro.
duce of this fund, which they had pretended was not
stitlieleet to pay goool. a year, , in pensioning Mr.
Long with 15001. Mr. Huskisson, Lady Grenville,
3000.1; Heine Popham,
.Lord Auckland; and, in
fiee in Making it a kind of Parliamentary Fund,
.I‘'!r. Rose replied to the last speaker, and preyed,
1113 t in the year 1720; independent of the relative
value of money, tie Pension List was greater, titan
at this anomeitt. He also corrected his statements
with reseeet:in the f per cent and ahewed
the 'nature ollti'applicatioi, in'paying off* 57(,;,0001,
of debt, after it was released, from the paytnent of
the Mike of Gloucester's annuity.
.his:., Vvaenektrones • triode few remarks, and
spoke in the highest terms of the integrity and pa-
triotism ot Mr. Pitt,
Mr. Cal:a:VEY' thaUglit the Crown had no title to
the re% enue arising from _the 0 per cents. The
question was, what had the practice been. ?-e-Twen-
ty thousand pound,Lhad been advanced in aid ,of the
CiVil 'List, which was the "first shin ever tliue, appro-
priated, in rink -Fie wished to knoW if any law
could be priinted out to bis'notice that lie might have
nye-sleeked,. authorising the CroWn to give pensions
oot, of that fund,.
Mr. Later-a:said; the Hon, Gentleman spoke as if
the-el per cent. 'duties had never been thus applied'
till the present, reign. In the reign of George the
First aitbilar pensions were granted, and in Ilse reign
of George the Second from 70 to 86,0001.'had beet)
&awn trona that Fund in aid °lithe Civil List. In
t76e,,. he was well aware 'a pension °of 30661. per
ann: had been granted oat of that Fund to.-tord
Chatham, as were various 'other pensions to 'diffe-
rent per Sons shortly after, No Attorney. or SOlicitor
General, or Lord Chancellor, since that time, could
be named who had not been a party he such grants.
He then adverted to the opinions of Mr. Burke nn
the subject of the regulations of the Civil List. The
-Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the annuity granted
to the Duke of Gloucester in 1786. What did Par-
hauteur, do on that occasion 4 Did they` say such a
grant was contrary to Mr.,Burke's aC ? no, it had
ever been admitted, that that. fund was a part of
the hereditary revenue, and consequently at the dis-
posal of the. Crown. • -
Mr: CaCEVEY.made a few farther remarks.
Mr. Rosa explained. •
Jones Newer= said, the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. ,Rose) had given a consprehensiee statement of
the diminntion ot the influence of the Crown dur-
ing the administration of Mr. rat, and of the de.
crease of pensions in England, he hoped some Gene
tleman-would rise'and do the same with respea to
Ireland."' From statements which he' had perused, it
-appeared the influence of the Crovin, together with
the nuaiber of pensions in Ireland, had increased in
a manner hardly .to be credited, ln -1'793 an Ad
ware sassed for regulating the Civil List of Ireland,.

ply "as to the necessity of econowye
4116 Cheveceeein of the EXCHEQUER coincided
iAItH ti.e Noble ',Ord, yet thought it ,but
NI- to sey thathisflute. Friend (Mr. Huskisson) had
net intioducOel' the ;.'objeel, but had. only risen to
correct the mis-statetnents Which had been made on
the oilier. side. As the, Hon. Gent. ,(Mr..Niartin)
:had &aired his preference of his (Mr. Peicevars)
fist eesoltaiion in opposition to his own,' he could
wish that instead of putting the Committee to the
neces.ity-of ore% Musty negativing That resolution, h
.7would,,withdraw iti,
.and suffer the other to be put in
it 4 stead, With respea -to what the Hon. Gen.lentan
bed said about comparing and contracting the two
ieriegs of
.relohnions seeiallet, he could- scarcely sup-
: pose that eucessary, as his resolutions• were merely
a new arrangeatent of theseof die Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. M tiltrsN withdrew his first resolution, and
- that proeoseu. by the.4Chancellor of the Exchequer
'Was put 'from the Chair. It was a general de-
. elaration that econolny in.the public expeuditure was
at all times etesirat)le.
. Mr. Rose, alluding to what had been said on, a
fottuer night; when the present question was first
debated, said, it had ' been asked it aimy thing had
ever been titrein consequence of the Reports niade
by the severer Committees. This question he was
now the wore desirous of'artwering, and to slew
what lied beeo-dohe in order to destroy those opi-
niowesn'indu4tioesly eireulated out of doors, that
Lila' House 'or the Govereinent were inatteptiste to
the ioteresta of the ',col*. Most of what lie had
to state belied already yublished, as he conceived it
ttehe his dute, for the• information of 't he coutmy ;
and IteTwas-' sure that no one in the House could
doubt for a tuntnent the accuracy of his propositions,
seeing it was in the piawer of evety reveoue officer
• in the empire-to contiaditi him, if he, advanced any
thing untrue, far party purpoes or private consider-
' atioes. Hii sietementr, however; remained oneOn:'
koverted;, and in: i,sould now repeat them
ahctrtly
ID a condensed wanner, to prove that since the year
1713!:, in the public expenditure great economy had
been introduced, 'and many unnecessary 'expellees
retferichede and that the influence! of Government
had been materially diminished, In the year t7B=:,
Aiurke.'s Rill had the effea of suppressing 37
Otficesi of upwards of 5001. per annum, end a nem-
bee of Offices under that 'anima ; by which a,sate.
lag of b 7,0061. per ammo). of public money was et-
*aerie 'ln the following year (1783) during the
short. administration of'Lord Shelburne, of whom
it was hut justice to say that, no Minister ever
constOed 'wore the economy of public money,
this 'Bid Operated to the suppression 4,144 other
offices, the annual nelount (*which was' 13,6001 i
1)&111g:these two years new offices to the amount 'of
10,teee.O.' 141-.l.lllllHlll'eeereereated, leaving a balance
of seeing - to the eublicen time amount of 64,0001. a
,yeate le the- latter year', teeliet abolitinos took
plte.e to the Amount of 66,0001. a year; making a
total-Y,l ; tin,eool. per aenun, seeed io the publicer-
In :785, fty- tee' Ahdi or's' brought M by .11,11%
'Pitt, a sating of 32,0001. 'per. lumen] was' effeadd;
196:see:Tore , placelt,
,Sze. to the amount-of
wo.-iteeasand six hundred poends per annum
were in the 'smite ycar ih• velvet sunotessed by that
tietiteeht are.? ezteellect '`Mittister,' though they were
lg u ab,,:isi::;;J bP y Art of .uhm aenteili I 798. 'these
appointments wete the source of very great influ-
eneee and no printed list'existed tie,direa the anon-
'feet of any -branch of the tegislature 'to them.
They e Lee, however, ilesteoyeil by the.'Minister
himself, v.' ho thus. , .o.'tetificen his own Oat.ronagei
‘vh=ch geoid not be questioned, for the public good:
In i Tee, 1.19 'fewer than elite officers t, Excise welt:
depressed ; aid after raising the salary of thoCes ree-
the eSilitiliShMent,Th'plit them aboie the
necessity i,t being tempted to defend the public, by
which Ine:ins the revelled Was tench'benetited,.
atttialnatemal Saving, to thetwnuet of 1e,3001. a-,
pen. moven, d. In 170,- the'Anditors of'.the Itn-
wee, ,jet cite' and Land Revenit6 Were abolished, and
beeides the saving of their fOq ;Mr. Pitt; with
that feeling Of anxiety .fot,t-htt public W;elfote, ter
ivhich he Was' so pre4tninantly distinguished', again
dismissed his Own, influeocc flow the toftsideretion;
end 'never peered' toe; reversions, which he, might
+ave. dubs, thelehe pee elteCin conipetition with
economy in ifuhlic texeetniiture. Thde Salt depart-
'ment ,w30.1n the sateciyear joined 'to thed4Xcise, and
;an annual theme to'llmi public of 26,-2001i ninde.—
!nos, by entiffettnig tolettetich and ame'ridc where-
lever rettellettMeot and amentitneet Werepra4ticable,
'hoe few years, Row the year tette, the animal ex-
.
• Fence Was decreased to eite amount'efiietneol.—
'the Hon. "Ceioeirtait then took'a vieevot t he
state pt l'attonage'ittnii 17D,2 to .'t 799, -end spewed
that instead or inereaNitig- to the wanner Often ets,'
rotted; e.ffie;:had' derinee rlmiit peljud Imposed
to the mooliunt of ,(ISiz,oopl. per entioni; the;wboli
cherge'vt.eaetting nod manaetuent- of which, de.
- dueling' o:liCc, sec. amounted to little
more their .stool, per annual; 53 Offiees were abolish-
tO, and ';:ecreated, so that with ail the increase of
. revenue, thew was officer fewer than before—a
circutOstatice-he would ,assert unexampled .in: the
• Ilitory of arty State. He then went on to he the
vent. saving of Lemuel expense and 41ecreise of pa-
eo'etege t het had takeo place lii the Barrack Depart-
meet ; Itethe mode. of oegotiat-iiig the Luaus ; in the
a refloat:et tor clothing time army j,• in the renewal of
the C.:town OM l'etintiMl iii mile secret stiir-
vice ; nod iit the Matter of the issue of Navy
In the' Aultrican. War, sueecribere .to. the
Loan to the rartotit• tit 10,00n4. received a prewitun
of lout, vebieh wee ate Immense source of infictenee
ti) the Mittiater. Instead at the premiums of 8, to,
• 'eed t 3 per cent. as .patd on :these -occasions
1; and stibseqnent years, by the 'restitutions
' sin Ce ititrodueint, .ta-a Most moderate calcol'etione
per cent. wus saved 'to-time public, arid this on "the'
taking. it on 'en averegeat millions per atm.
ameunted to a-Very-great sum. The co/m:os for
'elolthittg the A. my .were not noW, as' they were
f4rmerly, giVeir to Members of Parliament and,
75,.(1001: -was. in , this, instancti saved to the
toetry;'-witile the. inthieece of the Actinium. etion
s,'p i nrtiietably surrehdered; in order to procure it.
lit the ten. wel 01 the Gown Leases' (the nature of
whitti the . Leh( Hod, Gentleman 'explained) the
awned. sa•vieig w'is :vie less titan 400,0001. Thits

,
194,0001. By that Bill it was entitled, that till the -secret and in silence, and it was the duty o
amount was reduced to 80,0001. More than 12001. House to, watch and coenteraa it. Having observe
per annum should not 'be granted on that establish- ed the progress of that infinerice, he was ready:
mule Theroyel assent was granted in July, 178 e, to agree in the principle of the motion befOre the
but the Bill •Was not to take effete till- March iis; House, or in' any other measure that was likely to
lege, between which periods would it be believed lead to a gradual and temperate reform of abuses.
that a Cabinet Minister, (the Earl of Westmorland) • Lord FOLKSTON:a was ready to go the full length
otteally-acided pensions to the amount of 13,0001; to of the motion.; yet be _felt no great objection, under
the list. • The Heine ought seriously to weigh in all the circumstances of the debate, to agree to ea
their minds the condo& of one of the • Members of adjoernment of the Resolutions.
the Cabinet,' in thus- taking advantage of that seven. t After several explanations between 'Sir. Ponsonby
or eight months, to lay on pensions to as large an !Mr. Rose, the Chancellor of the Exchequer; and
amount-as had ever before been granted within the - Mr. Whitbread—Mr. WHITBREAD expressed
spaceof ioyears. Between the years of tego and t egri,• linemess toehave the Resolutions laid on the table;,
no less than 39,0001. was added to the Pension List. • and defer the disCussion of them to a future day:
It had however been considerably lowered, and it Here soother conversation arose, respecting Some
his intention fret session, to call on Parliament to additional amendMents which Mr. W. Wynne, auk',
make a limitation of 12001. per ann. as had been done other Metnhers, proposed to offer, which was also,
before, till it was reduced at least to 4(M)001. if not to concluded 'by. postponing the whole' of:there
39,0001. a-year. He wished those who were concern- . Thursday. . . • -
ed in Irish affairs would call on those who now enjoys Mr. W. Poen begged leave to call the attentiott
ed sinecures, to render the public some service for the of the Committee for a minute or two to what roe-
sums they received. ' i cerned himself somewhat personally. His name ,
Mr. Foasrsa ;said, he hada paper in his hand from had beensitiserted in the fhirdeßeport as Element-
which it appeared the pensions alluded to by the Hon. brancer -of the Exchequer in Irelatid, stud it W so
Baronet were not new, and laid on at the period he inserted as to convey an idea that he received the
he had spoken of. i cmolements of that office. This was certainly a
Sir J. New PORT said, that if the list made up to mistake; and upon a representation of it eo the
the year 1804 was founded in feet, his assertion was , Chairman of the Cenunittee, he Was called upon to
correct. state how the matter stood. He addressed a 'eller
After a short conversation between Lord Milton - in consequence to -the Cf4rtusn, and shewed by the
and Mr. Long„ statement that it was impossible Ise-Ousel roe
IVlr,Werretteme, having .spoken in the highest emolument from the office, from the circurteitaw'e,
terms of Mr. Pitt as a financier, acknowledged the ; under which his name had been inserted in the 84"
Hon.. Gentleman opposite had preyed he was not port. He held only as locum tenet's for ',Ord Wel'
actuated by avaricious motives, but he thought there- lesley, who was then in ledia, and he held it mere'
were grounds fur complaints ot.the most serious na- le, in order to see that the tioties of the Office wYte
tore, when the great waste of the country's re- regularly performed. He had only to repeat, that ,
sources was considered, which had been discovered .
,neither now, nor at any future period. could he
ste-
in, the war department. It was well known that rive any emolument from that office.,
Members of Parliament were formerly bribed for Mr. H. Ts ouserosa confessed that there might
their votes; :they perhaps might' base received their
appear to-be some mistake on that head to the He'
pensions from the four and a halt .per cent. fund; '
e
port e but it was still- evidese on the face of it, that,
though that, day was gone by, he thought many
the Hon. Gentleman neither did, or, could- derive stmt
changes wore required, ,and that many branches of emolument from that offiee. '
the public expenditure ought yet to be investigated
and economised'. At -the rime of which he had • The questiott was then loudly called for, and the
House agreed to the first Resolution e, itliont a die
been speaking, he def'not doubt but persens were essie„.
to be found to defend the abni that day, as well ;
. . WH ITERBeti then gave notice, that he 41°6r es of ay,
• i
as there were to Justify westing abuses itithe present. move his amendment in the House.' •
The Honourable- Gentleman then commented at The other Orders of the Dsy were 'thee dispestNh:
some length en the abuses of those concerned in of, and the House adjourned at Three oarlock tl.l*
Barrack building, as well as those in the-Transport morning.
Board, the existence of which :.Board, he was in-
dined to think, might be-dispensed-with. A gallant
Lord, Member for Westminster, not then- in his
place, thought, . some .years 'ago,. the influence of
the Crown in that House was greater than it might
to be, and moVedfor a return of all Members of Par-'
!lament holding places under Government. That
motion was afterwards made more general, and re-
ferred to a Committee,• the Third Report of which
Committee was then before them. The influence
of the Crown he still thought• greater than it ought
to be in that House/. The' Chancellor of, the Exe
chequer, he adtnittedi and a numbr of his Ma-
jesty's
Ministers ought -to hat eeseata there, but he
did not think all the-Lords of the Treasury were ne-
'cessary, ,Of the Secretaries of the Treasury, one
wait of great use there, but the other waft. tnerelY a
_Mae, of whom they heard nothing, but saw a ave=rt
. deal. They had. no President of COntroul, as the
HonourablesGentletnan- who once appeared, as such .
(Mr. R. Dundas), always ,had hidshands•full of Ire-
land.. He. did not see the propriety of -giving- per-
sons a.pension after. being in office two or three
years. • Men of ealeht would'. e -found to fill the
principal offices of the State, if they were not dins
-seek.
make their model, did not 08,SO; He did not
whom they professed to
pensioned off. 111 r. Pitt,
some snug thing for himself as soon as he got into
•
power. •He (Mr W.) thought the influence of the
Crown in that House ought tosbeless, . and would
nAannaleatstdamientrttthocer'ltiiimeittesoionle, tblate
t it i
ot !Lea rtteitdfh:erdesi tot7ris—e ans‘o‘o,
person shall hold a seat in this
House having a .sinecure or other private place 'of
emolument under the Crown,'' should. be added.-;r•
He .wished to say a word or two on those Very re-
spe6tahlti Members the Welch Judges. 'Though he
thought them less exceptionable than others, yet
there was a something in their sitting there offended
itnicirtletcitieheSvuisohuesde,toweshettabbelrishor,
sisotattarheagawilotldtheett principle
not they ought still to be considered as eligible to
hold a seat its Parliament. , - •
The CHANCaLLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed
the :'amendment. Adverting to what bad fallen
from Iblr. the Hon.
IGentleman's rteitabsroenaitni
goewPaesestiLpsn,
lhoestsaiadrlstocratical
lie had ever,beard, and acing up to it would- be to
confine all the offices of' Government in the hands
of those whose , fortunes would render them ab-
solute. -No economy was so wise as that that
procured the country the most efficient services--
Tilt system- he proposed would be the most ruinnus
in its effects. The• House el Commons Could only
retain their privileges, which had hitherto -proved
the bulwark of: the liberties debts people, by con-
tinuing what they had beenss He had the Felice
on- his sides which was .not to be shaken by the
theory, of the Hoe. Gentleman. • •
11-Its W. Sswitiseeuld not think the trite interests
of the country. were consulted, in pensioning off,
every subordiriate Officer of Oneernment eeter serv-
ing the 'Public two or three years.
Mr. PoNSONBY thought the amendment one et
the greatest importance ; but he woulsl submit it to
his lion. Vriend, w IRA hes, front the probable event
of its consequences, it would 1144, best to let it
lie on the table for the PrQ.ont, that they might have
time to give it the censideration it merited.
Mr. lerreeeroat spoke. in favour of the amend-
ment,: but concurred with: the Hon. Gentlemen
who bad just aat down, -in thinking that it would
.be well nut to take the sense of the House- on it
li;M::l:rid.ncilalitit:i.,nityttersoeao'rsdetwale4on'tochec,tohtnehtoernlpidaueubdal,igeetlmdmee'tbutSst,
-aotnlftde
publicnvaevyr
tenor, had considerably increased, ,so also must
the influence of
the .Crown have been proportiou-
ately extep d. '_ 'The influence. could .not but be
tie
communicated ton, great number -of Members of

4'

t

1;

Clal

,t

•

By letters from 'Curncoa, thited 25i1l March, we
learn, that besides Merchants' Vesgeis,ot
scriptions, they have lying in their harbour a spa
nish Man •of War, three Bciti Frigates, and 6°6
French prizes; the latter were lately captured lit
the Mona, bY the 1-14 e iind the Fai,„„iie,
convoying Ships- t hiough that passage front Corao!lk.
,on their -way to England:. Lieutenant;Col•
mAN, Aid-de-Camp to his Exeellency
CotHitistiftti, it was expeeed, would..#l*oro prOi
ceed 'on intended Mi.isionsto tin the
Feb: his Excellency Sir 3. Cocteau! N,
and Comm2mder in Chief' at CUraeoa,
FAttiNIAN, Colonel CHRIsT:F.., and IVlljnr Goanall,
landed at Fort Auusterdatn, from the Hebei,:tigate.
after a temporary absence Iron) the Colony ofTtv:/
weeks, on a visit to the Cap;i:io-Gtnen..l hf the pro..
vine of Vin3ecula. On his Excellency's' quitting.
the,Ship, the yards wete raitilted; '& salute was
tlred,. which was returned by Go batteries from the
shore, where the ir,.)ops
.were tirativp up to receive
him, with preaented arms, and the usual compli°
clients; fits Excellency one mitts „speak in i"
tvarmest terms otthizir ,splendid
rni
Spaniards, beAve Whoa md us tiic i;teineit frierid-
ship ai present sublists.
Married on the. 3.0 t h ult. at Coropton,',. tsr the n(lif.
Dr.. Asti.v.‘y, E. BAtkow, Esq. at
Lddge, Cartmel, Lancashire, Ito 'MiAs • P.\
daughter of the Rev.' J., P.u.str.i, one of
Yesty's Justicesof the Peace for the county of
tnerset. .