The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-24 00:00:00

It was like the stage of convalescence. He once h mil
been in that stage himself, but he was now perfectly a ee.
covered; and he doubted not that the reciproci L y
gentlemen would soon be as much free traders as t e
was. They bad lately, through their Minister at tLe
Court of Sweden, insisted upon the grant of
rights under treaty for the advantage of t his
country. Whatever privileges, with regard to r ett-
vigation, they might grant to any foreign count Iy,
whether conditionally or gratuitously, Sweden mit ;ht
claim at their bands; and the United States, and all
those countries whose treaties with England contained
the favoured nation clause, might claim any privih i.ges
which might be granted to Sweden. He thought, th ere-
, fore, that it would be most difficult to carry out pra ssti-
cally any attempt at reciprocity, conditional legisla lion,
or retaliation. With respect to the principle of or hers
in Council, he doubted whether it was wise to leave the
regulation of trade to the Executive, or to permit t hem
to levy duties on the import of commodities withou t the
consent of Parliament. He thought it was far bat( !r, if
any imperious necessity arose for interference with the
trade of the country, or for the increase of taxation, Lbat,
as a general rule, application should be made to Pas e lia •
ment for the regulation of such great and important i t le-
rests. He found, from a paper he held in his hand,tha 11 he
effect of existing Orders in Council was absolute) /3, to
forbid the colonies of England from commercial cornea in-
nicatlon with one-half the world. The British colon: ies
in America and the West Indies were interdicted fee .m
such communication with Belgium, Sardinia, Naples, the
Papal States, Tuscany, Greece, the Ottoman Empire,
Brazil, Peru, the Republic of Uruguay, and other con n-
tries; and they were not permitted to communi,stae
directly with Spain or France. There was one ex .cep-
tion with regard to France. The Governor of the I hien-
ritius wanted a little ice to cool his champagne--
(Laughter)—and therefore French ships were all steed
to carry ice to the Mauritius from the adjacent isle lid of
Bourbon. He would ask whether such a policy iwas
calculated to cement the ties of affection between the
mother country and the colonies? He considered, on
the contrary, that it was calculated to make those co lo-
rries desirous of separation, that they might attach them
to other countries which would allow them greater
privileges. It was true that the existing ordersi in
Council would be terminated by this Bill, but he wi shed
to have some assurance that they would not be restsred.
He would vote against the amendment of the lion.
Member for Kilmarnock.
Mr. R. PALMER would oppose this Bill now, as he
had done on a former occasion, because be believed with
Adam Smith, who was a great authority with Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite, that the navigation-laws were well eel-
culated to maintain the shipping iutrie.t. Unqueations
ably, if the flourishing condition of the shipping i nte-
rest of this country was any proof of the conducive uoss
of those Laws to effect the object they were intended to
promote, the question might be safely rested upon that
test. He confessed that he did not think the amend-
ment worth supporting, because he believed the object
of ;that amendment would not be insured by its provi-
sions. He considered that they ought, in legislating
upon a question of this kind, to look at the interests of
this country, and not at what foreign States might do
or might not do. He was not frightened by the state-
ment that Prussia or America had held out threats as
to the course they would take if we did not accommo-
date our navigation-laws to their wishes, because he was
satisfied those countries would do exactly what they
thought best calculated to promote their own
interests, whether we altered our navigation-laws
or maintained them.—(Heear, hear.) He thought,
therefore, that if the House considered the navi-
gation-laws tended to promote the political and ship-
ping interests of this country, they ought to uphold them
without any regard to the threats of foreign powers, who
could not injure England in commercial matters half so
much as England might injure them. Suppose the case
of a foreign country possessing harbours, rivers, and ma-
terials for building ships, and otherwise in a position fa-
vourable for establishing a great maritime power; did
they believe that such a country, being desirous of
creating a commercial and warlike navy, would net
adopt navigation-laws if it deemed them likely to pro-
mote their views? If the shipping of such a country
had to compete with us, they could in no other way
so advantageously introduce themselves into the
markets of the world as by adopting that course
of policy. How, then, would the legislation now pro-
posed operate upon countries so situated? They had
been told that no reliance could be placed on the
alteration, by France or Spain, of their navigation-
laws ; and by the legislation now proposed a direct
advantage would be given to the ships of those foreign
states which chose to retain restrictions after this coun-
try had parted with them. It was clear that, when they
had abolished their navigation-laws, France, maintain-
ing or even increasing its restrictions, would have just
the same advantages in competition with English ships,
whether in this country or in the colonies, as those na-
tions which traded with us on the freest principles. But
would English ships have the same privileges in France?
No; the advantage would be all on the side of the French
ships, which would have the preference in their own
ports, and would be admitted on the most favourable
terms in ours. The experience of the period since the
navigation-laws were adopted had shown that the mer-
cantile navy and the commerce of a great country like 1
England could increase and flourish under such a system;
and it appeared to him that these laws were in the nature
of an insurance, which it was worth while to keep up,
even at some cost of national interest.
Mr. BRIGHT observed, that the Hon. Gentleman
who had just sat down had referred to Adam Smith in
support of his views; but he (Mr. Bright) would be
sorry that Adam Smith, or any other Adam—(A laugh)
—should be held up for ever as a guide of the policy
of this country. Adam Smith justified the navigation-
laws. not upon the principles of protection advocated
by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, but because he thought
they gave strength to that naval influence which this
country had been so anxious to possess. If, however,
the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. R. Palmer) had read the evi-
dence given before the Committee, or had attended to
the facts brought forward in the course of this discus.
sion, he would have found that the danger anticipated
by Adam Smith was purely imaginary. There was no
country from which England had anything to fear as re-
garded naval superiority, except the United States, and
those States would give, and had already given to the
ships of this country, all the privileges and advantages
we proposed to give to them. If our throwing open our
navigation should be unfavourable to our naval supre-
macy, the opening of their navigation by the United
States must be equally unfavourable to the maintenance
of their naval power. He would oppose the motion of
the Hon. Member for Kilmarnock, because, if they
waited to open their ports until !other nations opened
theirs, he did not see why the same argument should not
have held good with regard to corn and other articles
in which free trade had been adopted. He hoped the
Government would withdraw the retaliatory clause
which had been alluded to, for he believed that, in no
probable circumstances, would they be able to carry it
into operation.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, in reference to the obser-
vation of the Hon. Member for Manchester relative to
the foreign correspondence which had been produced,
that the Government had thought it their duty to furnish
the House with all the information which they could
procure, and to take every means to throw light on the
views and intentions of foreign powers respecting a sub-
ject of this great and national importance.—(Hear.)
With regard to the question of reciprocity, that had been
fully and ably dealt with by the Hon. Member for West-
bury, and he thought he should only be weakening the
case by endeavouring to go over the same ground. How-
ever plausibly the principle of reciprocity might sound,
any Hon. Gentleman attempting to put his reciprocity
views into the shape of an Act of Parliament would im-
mediately discover the extreme practical difficulties in
his course.—(Hear, hear.) Though on principle he was
opposed to the strict reciprocity plan, yet, being fully
aware of the great facilities it might afford to Govern-
ment in carrying out a Bill like the present, he most
attentively considered the question in all its bearings,
for the purpose of seeing whether, consistently with his
duty, he could engraft reciprocity on the Bill, but he
abandoned the attempt in despair.—(Hear.)
Mr. BERRIES had heard with surprise the emphatic
declaration of the Right Hon. Gentleman that he had
thought it his duty to furnish the House, previous to the
consideration of this question, with all the information
he could collect respecting the intentions of foreign
Governments, for he recollected that last year the Bill
was discussed in June, and the first application to foreign
states with a view of ascertaining their opinions on the
subject was dated only in December following, being six
months after the introduction of the last Bill.—(Hear,
hear.) The communications which had taken place had
succeeded in obtaining only from a very few powers—
for instance, from Sweden and our excellent and respec-
table ally the King of Sardinia, any distinct explanation
of what they intended to do. With respect to the reta-
liation clause in the Bill, the amendment now moved,
and the suggestion, of the Right Hon. Member for Ox-
ford University, he thought it Shad been satisfactorily
proved that they were all liable to objection, and pre-
sented only a choice of dificulties. He looked upon
them all, however, as a homage paid to the principle
of reciprocity—(Hear,' hear)—but he apprehended that
the most-favoured-nation clause stood in the
way of the complete working of any of those proposi-
tions. With respect to America, it had been stated that
by the laws of that country as they now existed the con-
sequence of the passing of the present Act would be im-
mediate reciprocity on the part of America. The
Secretary for the American Government adverted speci-
fically to an Act which he said would accomplish that
object, but any one reading the Act would perceive that
the American Secretary was mistaken; and though it
was contended by the promoters of the present Bill that
there was another Act which would effect the purpose
desired, no- reference was made to •it in the communica-
tion from Mr: Buchanan. But if America bad already
passed all the necessary Acts, any application to that
country would have been superfluous, and therefore he
was inclined to doubt that such was the case. It was
stated that Mr. Bancroft represented that there was a
general disposition on the part of America to meet this
country in the 'relaxation of the navigation laws; but
that was not consistent with the statement that an
American law existed by which, if England relaxed her
navigation laws, the American navigation laws would
immediately be relaxed. There appeared a sort of
mystification in this, and something requiring further
explanation. He thought the Hon. Member for Man_
fcahierse tsetr
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late for our own well-considered interests, and not in re-
ference to other countries; but he differed from that
Hon. Member as to the particular course that should
now be pursued oy the House. The retaliation clause
would lead to dangerous disputes with other countries, if
attempted to be carried out, but he looked upon it merely

as a blind.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE, in reference to what had fallen
from the Right Hon. Member, wished to say that, during
the whole intercourse he had had with Mr. Bancroft on
this subject, it ails impossible for any man to have con-
ducted himself in a more straightforward and honour-