The Sun.
London, England, 1825-02-26 00:00:00

CITY OF LONDON PETITION.

Mr. Sheriff llioWn appeared at the lar, and resented a pe-
tition from the Lord Mayor, Alderinen, and Commons of the
city of London, for the repeal of the Assessed Taxes.
On the petition being brought up, Alderman WOOD said
he was extremely glad the Chancellor of the Exchequer was in
the House when this petition was presented ; and he hoped that
-the Right llon. Gentleman, by the repeal of those taxes, would-
give relief to the Citizens of London and to the country at
large. The House and Window Duty was in particular a most
objectionable tax, and of its operations the petitioners more es-
pecially complained. The manner in which these taxes was
-collected, and the various- surcharges that were made in dif-
ferent 4istricts, tendered the House and .Window Tax exceed-
ingly oppressive. The House Tax was a great crying evil.
He ic:pew houses that positively paid 80!. a-year to this tax.
Mr. T. WILSON said, he had that evening presented a pe-
tiop sirniliar to that which was now before the House. The
Rollie and Window Tax were extremely oppressive, and the
of the i.schequer, in relieving the public from their
ope:ritionompltl confer a real benefit on the conmiunity.
gr,11013.1101581.: said, that though his constituents had
not petitioned against the Assessed Taxes, supposing that such
a inevure would be useless, yet they had instructed him to
state, that they considered the continuation of this extremely
odious tax—the /louse and Window Tax—without any excuse,
ai a: spry great-evil. Very little benefit had been derived from
tlier:rttpual oe other branches •of taxation • hut if these taxes
irele xeknoved,s•it would be productive of the most beneficial
ii.-O;ALVERT was of opinion, that the Chancellor D
ti Frwschequer ought to relieve the people.froin the burden of
the :assessed.texes.

--„i;:.:-_i1((;46•L;01"NE said, they all knew by experience how
small a portion of relief was given to the people by the repeal of
a part of the tax on leather, and on various other articles.—
( Hear; beatly—lnAtead of relaxations of this nature, which
prodtged i;icArcelY any benefit, it would be much better to confer
reel good on 'the- tieoplei byrepealing the assessed taxes. /le
certainly would vote forthe. repeal; whenever the question came
before the House.

Mr, 11. DAVIS-said, he had presented a petition from the
City etf Briita on this subject;, and he agreed with the peti-
Czners, that the, repeal -of those taxes, at least of the window-
t,,x, was extremely desirahk- He hoped the finances of the
uountzy would enable the of the Exchequer to grant
. this auxh-desired. boon.

Mr. BRIG RT said, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, by
repealing thosataxes, would confer a very great favour on the
lower classes of society.

The petition was then read,- and-laid on the table. - •
P:1 r. BYNG presented a petition from the churchwardens and
o;:erspers of the pariah of St. Mary, Whitechapel, against the
dotyron coaLs,
IifACI,ONALD presented a petition from the town
of Bury :Edenunct's, .praying for the repeal of tilt. assessed
taxes. The;petitioners said, very truly, that it was much better
to repeal one-tax totally, than to efFect a partial repeal of seve-
ral,: This wnifshown by the effect which was produced by the
entire repeal of the- salt-tax-On the one hand, and by the opera-
tion, of the partial rcpel of ,• the leather-tax on the other.—
( Hear )—The7apphrent loss which the Revenue might sustain
by the repeal of a tax, was no eri tegon by which to judge of the
propriety of that repeal, since the increased consumption might
more than compensate for the contemplated deficit. When the
members for London, .Soud4Wark, Bristol, and Westminster
;:ad so decidedly spoken their sentiments on this occasion, it
V 044 to he hoped that the Chancellor. of the Exchequer would
pay some attention to -thetr representatiois. He trusted that
tae people would not tail to pftitevere in reminding the Legis-
lature that these were in their nature war taxes, and were, in a
t ime of peace, a grievous infliction on the public.
petition was read, and ordered to be printed.
Lord M ILTON presented a petition from the town- of Whit..
by, praying for the:repeal of the assessed taxes, particularly the
Window Tax. —Ordered to be printed. ,
%,17 yVII,L presented a similar petition from. the City of
York.—Ordered to be printed.
K.. E. W ODE 11 0 i;;.,:k; presented a petition from the parish
of St: Peter, and three other parishes in Islorfolk, against time
aisessed taxes.
Alf% )13/10USE presented a petkion-from the Ronan
against the. But for putting
Catholics of the lawn of:Einsaie,
dawn the Catholic Association.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. H. DAVIS presented a petition.from the churchwardens
Bristol, praying that the
avid vestry of the parish of St. Peter,
Bill for putting down Associations may pass into a law,
• and that no further poirer'bc given to the Roman Cathohcs.-
- 9rdered to be printed. , •
WORTI,v ingesented a petition • from .enrnwall,
3g. wag'. the Duty on Coals ; also a petitiOn from Sulkesby; in
savour of the County Courts! Bill.
Mr. Al A CA,II JEEtNiurn
to lawear at' the: County Courts' PT Ordered to be printed.
presented a petition from Wob ,
Sir It. lIERON the obit.
ants of Peterborough,pres,mted a ,petition from if
in favour of' the County Courts' Bill.
61' J. MACKINTOSH presented a petition from iinareS-

'borough in 'favour of the County Courts' Bill. A peculiar fea-
ture of the petition was, that it was signed by a:number of at-
tornies, who were willing to sacrifice their own gains for the.
interest of the public.---(" Hear," and latighterj
Lord MILTON hoped, that the noble example held out
by those attornies would be followed by 'individuals in higher
situations.—(Hear ! ')..-The petition was read, and laid on
the table.

Sir J. MACKINTOSH presented a petition from the inha-
bitants of the parish of St. Mkhan, in the city of Dublin,against
the Bill for auppressing the Catholic Association.—Ordered to
be printed.

Mr. D. GILBERT presented a petition from Ulverstone,
againstthe Duty on Coals. --
Mr. T..COURTENAY presented a similar petition from
Totdess.

Mr. EGERTON presented a petition from Stockport, pray-
ing for an alteration in the Beer Law.
Lord PALMERSTON presented a petition from Sligo,
praying that certain disabilities which effected private banks
might be removed.
Mr. LOCKHART presented a petition from the parish of
All Saints, Oxford, for the repeal of the House and NVindow
Tax.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON said, he held in his hand a petition
froth the'ROman Catholic inhabitants of the town of Cloyne,
calling on the House to pause before they suppressed the Ca-
tholic Association. The petitioners repelled the assertions of
the Right Hon: Secretary for Ireland, and of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Lowth (Mr. L. Foster), who were, in the public news-
papers, reported to have said, that the Association was the
cause of infinite mischief to Ireland. If time were given them
he was sure the Association would rebut all the other asser-
tions of a hostile character that were made respecting it.—
Jcilear !)—He also had to present another petition of the same
nature from the town of Mallow and its neighbourhood. The
Hon. Member for Mallow (Mr. Beecher) was prevented by
illness from presenting it ; but he entirely participated in the
sentiments which it contained. The Catholc people of Ireland
looked upon this bill as an invasion of their best privileges, and
an attempt to deprive them of their birth. He regretted most
deeply that-the House had on a former evening refused to hear
Mr. O'Connell and his associates, because he was sure that the
representations which they would have been enabled to make
would not only have convinced the House of the perfect inte-
grity of their intentions, and the harmlessness of the Associa-
tion, but they would also have had the effect of removing front
the minds of the people of England many injurious impres-
sions which existed with respect to. the Catholics.- Ile could
not help fearing, that the putting down the Association would
be a cause of throwing back the success of those claims, which,
however, must ultimately prevail. For this reason- he recom-
mended to the attention of the House the petition which he had
now the honour of presenting, and repeated his hope that the
bill would yet not be permitted to pass.—The petition was then
brought up, and ordered to be printed.
BRITISH MUSEUM.

Sir CHARLES LONG presented a:petition from the Trus-
tees of the British Museum, the statement contained in which
he begged permission to repeat to the house. Mr. Rich, who
had been in the service of the East India Company, as their
resident at the Court of the Pacha of B-rdat, had made, during
the many years which he resided in India, a very extensive and
valuable collection of manuscripts, .medals and antiquities. It
was the wish of that gentleman, who was since dead, that this
collection should be in the possession .of the British i'iluseum,
in order that, by being opened to public inspection, it might be
the means of facilitating the discoveries and studies of persons
Of science. His widow, in pursuance of this desire'of her late
husband, had offered the whole of his collections to the Trustees !'
of the British Museum at a reasonable price, which might be
fixed upon by persons acquainted with its value. The trustees,
when this offer was made to them, felt bound to make an in-
quiry into the value of the collection. They procured the opi-
nions of Dr. Macbride, Dr. Nicholls, of Oxford, Dr. Leigh,. of
Cambridge, and of Dr. Young, all of whom were well qualified
to estimate the worth of such a collection. They gave . their
concurrent testimony, that it was highly valuable, and would
form an important acquisition to the British Museum. The
collection consisted of 900 volumes of Manuscripts, in the Per-
sian, Turkish, Cealdaic, Syriac, and Arabic languages. They
contained commentaries on the Scriptural• writings, and were
likely to afford very important illustrations- of the sacred text.
Another part of the-collection was composed 'of Oriental and
Greek medals, the value of.. which would be satisfactorily
proved to the house when he told them, that they were held in
the highest estimation by the late Air. Payne Knight, who
had carefully examined them. The last part of the collection
was a large quantity of antiquities, which had been discovered
in the neighbourhood of Babylon and Nineveh, on Which were
inscribed characters which had not yet been .deciphered;
and which, it was obvidus, never could be . deciphered but by
means of comparing them with other similar remains. Not-
withstanding - the long and intimate connection which we
had had with Asia, the library of the British Museum was
almost wholly destitute of the productions of oriental litera-
ture. ThiS was one reason why he-recommended the purchase
'of the collection ;. and another was, that it was in itself com-
plete and entire, and contained not one duplicate of ally 'thing
the-Museum at present possessed. He had, in the course ..of
the last Session, when he called the attention of' the Muse td_
the munificent gift which his Majesty had made of the late
King's library, expressed a belief that . this example would
be followed by others. He bad great pleasure in stating now--
(not because it was-a fulfilment-of his own 'prediction, but be-
cause it was highly honourablecto the 'generosity and public
spirit of the individual to whoin he alluded)—that sir Richard
Colt Hoare had expressed 'his ' intention of presenting to the
trustees of the British Museem, for the use of the public, the
large and valuable library which. had been collected by 'himself
and his family. It contained, among other valuable books,'a coin-
plete collection of Italian history and topography; and amount
ed to not less than 17 or 18,000 volumes. After stating that the
computed value of the collection -of the late Mr. Rich was
8,0001.,. of which 6,0001. was for MSS., 1,0001; for the medals;
and 1,0001. for the antiquities, the Hon. Bart. beought up the
. .
Petition, which was ordered to be printed.
Ile then. moved that a Committee be appointed, ad had been
done in the case of the Lansdown MSS., to report to the House
their opinion on the proposed purchase, which was tarried.
Sir J. NEW POlc.l' rose to- move again for returns relaiive
to the population of Ireland- from. the last census, which had
been ordered on the 2d and sth of May last, but which.liad not
yet been laid on the table.—Ordereci.

. .
ARMY ESTIMATES. "
Lord PALMERSTON said it was not this intention to move
these estimates to-night, on account of other business, which
must necessarily be postponed if it!!hould do so. lie would.'
therefore take Only a vote on account;:and, move the whole of
the estimates on this day se'nuight. •
COAT M ITTEE SUPPLY.

•• t
The House then resolve itself into 'a Committee of Supply
on the tilotion,
Lord PALMER:STON ~who moved also, that a sum not ex-
ceeding one million should be granted to his Majesty, towards
discharging the eliocnces in respect to• Army Sulgeons.
Colonel DAVIE!S said, he had intended to appose the vote,
unless the Noble Lord should be. prepared with a very strong
Case to justify the large additions which were.to be made to the
army. He hoped the Noble-Lord-would be•prepared with such
a case when he should move the estimates, and that the House,
if it should be satisfied, would show to Europe and the world,
by their unanirmius vote, that they were determined to support
the honour of the country. . .
. • BRITISH MUSEUM. •

Mr. BANEES moved that a sum of 15,4161. should be-
granted to his Majesty, to defray.the-expences of the British
Museum for the year 1825.• He was ready to explain the items
if any lion. Gentleman should think it necessary.
Mr. CROKER rose, not for. the purpose of opposing the
vote, but to repeat annbservation which be had wade last year
respecting the price at which _the catalogue of books in the
Museum was sold: 41 catalogue: was, as- it were, the key of
the Museum, and highly
.pseful, if not necesssary, to the
persons who. wished to. eortsult • the books. The price of. the
catalogue now was -I or B guineas, and this made it wholly im-
practicable for poor
.scholars tt procure it. He was sure tire
House would agree to. no vote more readily than to one which
would enable the. Muscum to sell their catalogue at a cheaper
rate. He did not at; present urge the printing a new .one, be-
cause, until the King's-Library and other additions which had
recently been made should be open to the public, it would not
be advisable to have a new edition.
Mr. BANES said • the price of the catalogue was four
guineas, but that he }vas aware.was too large a price.
Mr. 1-111. ME, referring to the returns which bad been laid on
the table of the.liouse, wislied to know whether there was any
.objection to adding.one or two days in' each week to the three
on which the Museum was now open to the public ?
Mr. BAS;KI.:S said, that theremereonlY two days at present
reserved for private inspection of the Museum, and this reserve-
tion•w.as•made with a view to accommodate foreigners and other
curious persons who -came thither to consult the objects which
the Museum contained,.and whose object would .be frustrated
by, the admission.of a crowd. •
Arr. 11 IJM E said, then it appeared that two days were re-
served fin...this purpose, and only. three for the admission of the
.whole coirnrinnity. Ile thought this was hardly fair.
Mr. CROKER said, it must be obvious to every one who
had visited the Altt.einn, that it was necessary for.the students
(he did Plot greatly value the argument as to foreigners and cu=
riaus persons) to be allowed the undisturbed access to the Mu:
seurn ; and he did not think two days in each week were too
much for this purpose. .
Mr. HUAIt: said, there still remained one day unoccupied.
Mr. CROKER said that day •was -necessarily employed in
cleaning the building.
111 r. W. .J. BANKES took this opportunity of reminding,

the House of the Circumstance of he collection which had
been ceded by Itlr. Salt to the Erlich Museum. A sum of
4000/. had been given to him for tht collection, but he was
still a loser by it, °Wiwi to the sum which he had had to pay
for the alabaster sarcophagus. Mr. Sit made no demand fir
the sum he was a loser of, but he Mr. Bankes) hoped that
some opportunity would offer of rerninerating him.—The vote
was then agreed to._ _

31r. H RI ES moved for a sum of 100,0001., on account
of civil contingencies, the whole amotnt of which. was 260,0007.
Mr. HUME asked if an account Hating to•the expenditure
in the colonies, which lie had moved for, and which had been
promised to-him, last year, was now rady.
Mr. W. !HORTON • acknowledgd that it had been pro-
mised, but it was not yet ready.
The vote was then agreed to, the louse resumed, and the
report was oir.,(TlNertedAtiovbie,,ibriodusg(l
jacuipEt;llElsonillaitnue.xt.
31r. GOULBU RN moved the Orcer of the Day for the third
reading of this Bill.
LEYCESTER said, that it his opinion the society
ought to be tolerated by the Governnent, because, if it were
pot down, it would give rise to otters which would be more.
.powerful, and far more formidabe than this, and which
no human power would he able to pit down. lie was sure that
the Catholic Association had, so lon; as it had existed, contri-
buted to preserve the peace of lrelanl, and he could dot, there,
fore, doubt that it would continue tt do so. He believed, too,
(and this was another reason .which Tould make him regret to
• see it put down), that Catholic Enuncipation iCould be has-
tened and rendered more certain by neans of the Catholic As-,
Sociation. It was wholly incompathle with Orange associa-
tions and Orange triumphs; and by annihilating, as it would,
these, which had always been the destruction of public tran-.
quillity in Ireland, it would produce real and lasting benefit's
to the country. It was • said of a great man of old, that he
could, by a stamp of his foot, raised thirty thousand men ; brit
the Right Hon. Secretary opposite might do more; for he could,
by advancing his foot towards the Opposition benches, raise six
millions of people to an equality with' their fellow-subjects.
Mr. S. RICE felt it his duty to protest against the passing of
the measure before the Home.. There was one of the clauses
of the [till at which he was perfectly-astonished, on account of
the monstrous power which it proposed to vest in the hands of
the Irish Magistracy. The 'clause to which he alluded was
that which empowered any-illeyoe, Sheriff, or Justice of the
Peace, within his and theirrespective jurisdictions, to conimaad
all meetings declared in the Bill to he unlawful assemblies im-
mediately. to disperse, and to demand admission into any
house, out-house, or office, where they shall reapectively have
good reason to believe that such unlawful assembly shall be;
and if refused, to enter by force. That he considered to be one
of the most monstrous and unjustifiable provision that could he-
-proposed to be inserted in an Act of Parliament. Even if the
Magistrates of Ireland were all that was most pure, it would be
wrong to intrust them with such powers; but when it was a
traitor of notoriety that many of the Magistracy had committed
acts of the greatest injustice, how much more impolitic would it
be to do so.—(llear !)—The Chief Justice of the Court; of
Icing's Bench in Ireland had declared that the higher classes in
that country were too often found " trampling on justice, and
converting the law into an instrument of oppression against the
weak abtl Powerless."—(hear !)—That was the character which
the Chief.lustice gave of the class of persons from whom the
Magistrates were selected, who. if tie present Bill should pass
into a law, would be intensted with the power of breaking into a
man's house, with Out the preliminary proceeding of information
on oath—(Hear !) It had often been allowed against Mein.-
bets on his side of thellouss, that they dealt only in.generalcharges
against the magistracy, and refrained from referring to any
particular case. He would, therefore, on the present occasion,
mention two or three instances of the misconduct of the magi-
stracy, which had been substantiated by evidence- in a court of
justice. At the last Waterford assises, a magistrate named
Boyce was prosecuted by a man named
_Laden, for false im-
prisonment. ,Ladall, it appeared, was a tenant of Boyce, who
wished him to give up the lease of his farm. Ladall refused to
do so, and Boyce thereupon sent him to. Bridewell on sonic
false charge, where he was kept for fifteen weeks, at his own
expence. At length he consented to give up his lease, and was
discharged. The Hon. Member then mentioned another. case,
(we could not catch the nartiAS of the parties), in which a ma- -
gistrate had committed a man under the insurrection act, .be-
cause he had neglected to pull off his hat when he came to con-
sult him on business. When that was the way in which justice
was administered in Ireland, let not the House be told that
there was no ground for complaint on the subject. Ile
asked the Attorney-General for Ireland, who .kne-s- die magi-
stracy of Ireland, whether he thought it was right to confer
1 on them the power of breaking open a man's house, without
information on oath ? Ile did not wish to cast a sweeping een-
sure upon the magistracy. He knew that there were many worthy
men .in thatbody e but he knew also that it was in proof that
many had tniseonductecl themselves. Ile called upon the
House not to pass such an iniquitous Bill. Ile implored the
secretary for Ireland, who was responsible for the peace of that
country, not to subject it to a measure which would lead to the
most lamentable result:..—(lcer !)—lt was with the most un-
feigned regret that • he had witnessed such a measure' proceed..
ing from the -Irish Government, because, in other respects, he
felt.that the comntry owed much to that Government. The
Irish Government appeared to him to be in this situation—they
recognized sound constitutional principles, but seemed to be .
unable to carry them fully into effect..—(hear!)—hie trusted
that Parliament would consider the subject, and adopt measures •
which would either enable or compel the Irish Government to
the people to-do justice placed under its controul. The Hon,
Gentleman concluded with moving, that the Bill be read a.third
time that day six months.
Mr. DOH EPt.'r said, that the Hon. Member who had just
sat down seemed to insinuate that pdor people in Ireland could
not obtain justice. lie was not bound, standing where he did., :
to answer for any seeming inconsistency into which he might
have been led as an advocate. The bounden duty of an ativie-
cate was to, make the best of his cause; the duty of a senator
was to maintain the truth. He did not come before-the House
ac an advocate ; for, even at the moment be entered its doers, he
had thrown of that character. But it was said that justice contd.
not be impartially administered in Ireland : as far as his own
experience 'went, he found that statement contradicted. In the
course of his professional practice, he had been Counsel fOrlmany
individuals, Catholics and poor people into the bargain, who
had recovered large amounts, in damages, from persons who had-
oppressed then,. in one case, in the county of Waterford, he
had been
.concerned for a man of low ranw, .against a perion
of fortune, and a magistrate. Whether his client bad been a
Catholic or not, he did not remember, but he had been poorcertainly, -and grievously oppressed. In that very case, lie had
not only, gained a verdict, with a considerable sum in damages,.
but the defendant had been instantly stripped of his Commis-
sion of the Peace. Then, if justice could be done in Ireland
between Protestant -and Catholic—equal justierscertain and
impartial—he did intreat that there might be an end ofthat un-
worthy slander which Gentlemen were apt to cast on the audio-
rides of their country. lie did not Mean to say thatethe legal
road was very smooth in Ireland—that it was quite dear, or
that men could travel upon it without pain or cost;' but' where
could they do this in 'England, or in any other country ? After
repeating that. justice had been done in Ireland, and could still
be done there, between man and man, without the aid of the
Catholic Association, the lion. Gentleman concluded- by ap-
pealing to those who knew him, whether personal. or political
• feeling had ever biassed him in the discharge of his duty ?
Mr. :ePRING RICE declared that he never meant to ins-
' pure to the Hon. Member any thing like being actuated by per-
! sand feeling. All he contended for was, that the magistrates
of Ireland were not fit to be intrusted with the new and inor-
dinate powers vested in them by the present bill; and to sus-
stain that proposition, it was tot necessary to discuss the clues=
tion how far enstiee could or could not be done in 'that county
between Prottstartt-and Catholic.
Mr. ALEXANDER BARING 'still believed, thai in the
present state of party, the impartial administration Of justice in
country:i t, and lll uNsit,
Icyo,n tibnaitte
a tofe bwe so,
lrelpnd,was impossible. The ease had always been as he stated
the commonest Court in England—tire again, after the riots resulting out of the funeral of the Queen,
tisiemcceo,u
in every time, and in every
at:
ter,
had been found entirely inefficient. He did not believe that
-ollflattni eh( fe os c7—d
it would have been possible to get justice in Ireland, either in
the late cases brought forward the other day by the Right Hon.
Attorney-General, or in the proceedings that originated out of
the attack in the theatre upon the Lord Lieutenant. While the
great question of Catholic claims remained entirely undecided,
and Ministers could give no advice to the Crown upon the sub-
ject,he wag sorry to see thern coming down, year after year,with
new measures of coercion, which the Attorney-General of lie-
land declared to he wholly inefficient.
molltlironNbVe.foCre°-tUh ell
favour of Catholic Claims ; and believed their grant to be Most
thoughtHToEuNseek:b.csautietilaethe.liad always voted in
important to the well-being of Ireland.. But supportedthe.
a .society like the Catholic' • • "'one of the • heaviest
Association
afflietiona with 'whirl)The Hon.
-- any country could be visited.
possessing resources which
Gentleman proCeeded
.coritend, that the' effect of the Aliso,
elation as interfering with the re 1 Course of justice, would
be most injurious;.if not checkedllaby-the present Bill. He
the existence of
maintained 'that an Associat:oi actin*'., as this had 'done, and
incompatible with the s ofno then Constitution, and out to be
put down. Ile could aspsture he House, that feeling as lie did
on the general question of -tCatholic Emancipation, lie gave his
vote for this Bill with felt convinced that. the
regret ;but lie
tranquillity of the countryrequired it: There was
absolutely
'idividual could possess, was
only one part of the Bill on
u which he had any. doubt, and
' the existence of whicirmigtitltiave induced him to oppose
it—
he meant that clause whichgave authority to a single 'Magi-
strate to .enfore the pro.viaiLsgof the Act .; but on this point he

felt himself rr2licved by an intimation from his Right lion.
-Friend (Mr. Goulburn), that it was his intention to alter that
clause, and to make it necessary that there should be more
than one Magistrate present in certain proceedings under it.—
( H ear, hear !)

Mr."SYKES expressed himself altogether hostile to the prin.
ciple of.tlic bill, which he. contended was an unnecessary addi-
tion to the penal code of the country, inasmuch as all the evils
said to have resulted from the Association might be corrected
by the existing laws. . ---
Sir J. NEWPORT could not allow this opportunity to pass
without saying a few words at the present stage of the bill.—
It was, he •maintained, an oppressive act, introduced to put
down by force an Association which had necessarily grown out
of the system so long pursued towards Ireland. He denied
that this Association had the effect of interfering with the re-
gular course of justice, sas had been so often stated. The aid
they affbrded to the peasantry to obtain justice for acts of op-
pression, was by no means unnecessary; for though there
might be a few instances where the poor peasant obtained
justice, there were thousands of cases in which innumerable
_difficulties were thrown in his way in endeavouring to procure
it. It was known and proved before a Committee up stairs,
that Magistrates were in the-habit of receiving presents in kind
from those to whom they administered justice. The witness
who gave this evidence explained his meaning of " presents in
kind," by saying that the Magistrate who dealt out justice to
the poor farmers had his corn reaped, his turf cut and drawn
home, and other acts of service done by those poor individuals.
—Was this a system which looked like the result of a regu-
lar system in the administration of justice ?—But he would not
confine himself to this. He had the authority of no less a per-
sonage than Lord Redesdale, who had the best opportunities of
knowing the state of Ireland, that there was in that country
one law for the rich and another for the poor, and both equally
bad.—(-Hear, hear I)—With respect to the - effects which the
passing of the present bill might produce in. Ireland, he could
assure the House that they were anticipated with no slight
degree of alarm by those who were best acquainted with the
real state of that country. He held in his hand a letter from a
most respectable individual, a Protestant, residing in one 'of
the most populous, and what had been one of the- most dis-
turbed
distrcits in Ireland. In that letter he stated, that the
papers announcing the first night's division on this question had
arrived in that country, and had produced in the minds of the
people generally the most intense anxiety. lie added an ex-
'pression of his own great surprise, how any man who really
knew the state of the country could vote to put down an
Association which had done so much to restore tranquillity
in Ireland, and had been so much adored by the great mass of
the people. livery peasant, he added, contributed his mite to-
wards the rent with the utmost alacrity, though he did not know
its nature and object.--(" Hear, hear i" from the Ministerial
benches.) The writer of the letter concluded by expressing the
most serious aoarehensions as to what might be the effects of
' the passing of this Bill. He (Sir J. Newport) would not name
the author of this letter publicly; but if he were to do so, every
one who heard it would at once admit his high respectability,
and the means which lie possessed of knowing the real state of
public feeling in that country. lie had resided 30 years in Ire-
land, and no man was more competent to judge of the probable
effiset of such a measure as the present.—(Hear!)
Mr. GOULBURN said he did not intend to delay the
House by any lengthened observations, but he could not
allow this last opportunity to pas; without making a few
remarks in reply to some of the objections which had
been Urged against the. Bill for the first time that evening.
It had been asserted that this was partial legislation, and that
the Government had made no attempt to put down associations
of a different description. He denied the fact, and he ap-
pealed to the statutc-book'for proof, that the house had legis-
lated to put down other societies. Did Honourable Members .
forget the Act passed in the year 1823, to put down associations
of a particular description, by which Orange societies, though
not mentioned by •name, were particularly aimed at ? The
Honourable Baronet (Sir J. Newport) had Said, that there was
one law for-the rich and another for the poor in Ireland. If that
meant to convey-to the House that there was in that country a
-denial of justice to the podr mall, he begged to deny the fact ;
but if it meant only that great inconvenience was felt by a poor
man in prosecotin, a suit at law, it was zio more than was 'felt
in this country, and was incidental to the condition of the poor
in every state. With respect to Magistratea
she would assert,
and he defied contradiction', that -there was no such thing as a
dispositiOn amongst them to take bribes for-the administration
of justice to the poor.- There might have been cases of hijos_
tice and oppression on the part of thesmagistrates'; but when-
ever a case of the kind came fully before Government, there was
no indisposition to exercise the authority with which they Were _
invested, of removing such persons,from the commissiOns In
cases; which affected the conduct' of magistrates, and 'which be-
came the subject of judicial inquiry, it was the constant prac-
tice of the Lord Chancellor to iaquire into the merits of the
case, by takisos the report of the Learned Judge who tried it,
and to act by his opinion. This was done in the case of
" Lawrence- and Dempster." The Right, Hon. Gent. then
went on to contend for the necessity of such a measure as the
present, to put down an Association having a very dangeroui
tendency,' and against which the existing
_laws afforded no
sufficient protection. It had been, said that the giving the
power to a single Magistrate to enforce this A .pct in particular
instances was without precedent;- but did Hon. Members recol-
lect, that the Conventionsactgave• power, not only to a single.
Magistrate but even to a peace officer, tcsprevent or stop a meet_
big held chntrary to the 'clauses of that
,Act ? In the present
Act no such power Was given, Wept to a Magistrate. Yet.
even-on this point he'was ready.. to _attend to ,the suggestions
which hail been thrown out, and to make the presence of more'
than one Magistrate necessary in certain talcs; and he assured.
Hon. 3tembers opposite, that from the first be •was prepared.
to give his most patient attention to every suggestion by
which the rsevesityof this Act might be mitigated as Muth as pos.
slide, without destroying its effect. Ile then-proceeded to show
that the statement made
.by the Honourable Member for Win-
chelsea, regarding -the conduct Of Baron I.ll'Cleland on one.
of recent trials in Ireland, was utterly without founda-
tion. The Hon. .and Learned Member had stated, that the-ac-
quittal of the soldier...sias attributable to the interference of the
Learned Judge in preventing one of the witnesses giving an
answer to the question why he had omitted to state at the Coro-
ner's Inquest' that which he was then stating'. to the Court.—
_Since that statement had heeO made, he had received. one com-
munication from the Learned.JUdge whose conduct was im-
‘
peached by it, and another from'two of the counsel employed
for the prosecution. Now, on the authority of the counsel he
could inform the House, that no such qUestion had been pro-
posed to. the
.witness. as was stated to have been objected.to ;
and on the authority of the Learned Judge, that he had not pat
any stop to such investigation. The Right flons§ecretary here
read Baron APCieland's letter to the effect we have stated ; and
then added,. that he had the satisfactiOn of announcing to the
'House, that he had recently become acquainted with another proof
of elie soldier's innocence. The l-..earnetlJudge had summed up the
evidence on this indictment with so much minuteness, that in the
course of it the counsel foe the prosecution had said to a gen-
tleman who sat nexthini, " I -Wonder Why the Judge should
give himself the trouble of charging on a case upon which there
has been the necessity of a clear acquittal from the beginning."
—(llear, hear I)—The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had also
made, upon what' authority he knew not, another charge
against the Learned Judges
Mr. -BROUGHAM.- I made the chargea.on the authority
of one of the Counsel engaged in the prosecution:. .
Mr. GOULBURN.S.-.Tfle. Hon. and Learned Gentleman
had said that the Learned Judge had'not only forborne to defer
to him
(btlfa.a.luiretlsion
irsneeicea;orgaariiin,tnn,
read
name
over of whicht
hwe• aesvnidoetrincleenotti.fatinieedv:ittnillestsheme.wChoou Counsel
ewr. zed in it was sent for from another court, but had also re-
act
been examined.Previoosly to his coming into it. The, Right
Hoin'Gentlemasi here read, a letter from the Learned Baron, '
stating, that.as the name of the' ase had not been .mentioned,
he could not' meet the charge made against him. with as
positive a-denial as he had-done the.lormer charge, but adding
that he* no recollection of such a circumstance having'
occurred On the circuit; and, that lie believed that no such cis.
,that,
uhacnet
dh which.
cumstance had.occurred, as it was in direct contravention to the
araetlgr theine:
conduct which he had long been inthe habit Of ptrsuin, to-
wards the bar.-,(Hear, hear !)—Aftei such a Statement,' he did
d
not suppose that. arty hotly would again impute to the Learned
attributed to hum by the Hon. and Le7edreaGt
eloquence in
Filiation to employ the wzightstifis g
tahppenr person
andw' wasgLearnedah
criminal
otil
judicialuen charac-
ter,
act-1
d 'be
e
such unfounded -accusations V
Baron the
ill hear
rugll
was
andslf
sr ct:
hsitlaf a tiger.and half
ter, and lie trusted that it would accusations
hint to abstain from de-'
anotheriCl g
a himnmina'l,fultiyiechas
named, though unfortunately the word had not readied his
ears.—(Hear, hear !)--Such language. was icariely-tlC.fensible
when used towardic all individual convicted •of *crime, but „was
quite_unwarrantable when
.uaed towards an individual of the
Learned Baron's high. station and character. (Hear !)—He
was sure those that knew, him would a h.
. gree with him when he
stated, that no' individual .discharged Iris functions more im-
partially, or oftener interfered to prevent the recurrence of the
violent party disputes which so frequently came before the tri-
bunals of Ireland:—(Cheers.) -
Mr. DENMAN had Waited .with 'impatience for some ex-
planation of the Learned Baron!scoriauct in the two cases which
- had been brought before the notice of the House; and now that
the explanation had been given, he must observe that to-him
it appeared to, be any thing but satisfactory. The _Learned
Baron had met the first charge with a positive denial. This
was no more than might naturally be expected from a person
in his situation. A Learned Counsel had, however, pledged
his professional fortunes to the truth of the charge ; and he
eould not see any reason why tile Judie was to - credited

merely because he was on the bench, or why the barrister should
be disbelieved merely because he was below it.---(Hear, hear !)
a man were to be considered innocent merely, because he
denied the accusation brought against him, why should not the
Catholic Association have the benefit of the same doctrine ? It
had certainly every claim upon their indulgence; it bad chal•
lenged inquiry into its conduct—it had offered evidence of its
proceedings--that evidence •had been rejected, and its guilt had
been taken for granted, not only without producing any facts
to establish it, but after shutting out from the public view
every document except those miserable papers which were now
poured in from every quarter to blacken the conduct and ob•
Jects of the Catholic Association.—(Hear!)—Gentlemen on the
other side had told them that they ought not to attack the ab-
sent. He wished that they would follow the advice thergavg;
•and before they. poured the vials of their wrath on the Ca-
tholic association, would recollect that they had driven its
'members • from their Bar, anti had not allowed..them ,
fute the charges whieh they had produced against them. 7-.
It was, however, quite ridiculous to talk of not attacking
the absent when it was of. Chancellors and of JudgeS that
they had to speak. ThOse persons could not hold seats in that
House ; but it was the duty of those who could hold them to re-
mark, and to remark by name on their conduct if it were oh-,
jectionable.. Now, when he found the Noble Lord who filled
the office of Chancellor acting as the head' of administration,
and putting language into the mouth of his colleagues, which
filled the country with astonishment, lie should be deterred by
any invidious sarcasms from declaring his opininn of that
Noble Lord's-political proceedingi They were told that the
Noble Lord, if his colleagues would not adopt his language, in-
tended to resign. When Gentlemen on his side of the House
intimated their doubts as to that point, they were told it must
be so, for the Noble Lord is a man of honour and integrity.—
(Hear„ and a laugh !)—And yet the men' who told *them so
were themselves men of honour and integrity, who agreed to"
adopt language as their own which they
_disapproved, 'rather
than resign the good things of office.—(Cheers and laughter !),
—The Hon. and Learned Member then proceeded at consider-.
-able length to argue against this Bill, as one that was calculated
to excite lasting discontent in Ireland, and implored. the House,
if it wished to re-establish itself in the confidence of the popu-,
lation of that country, 'to put down this Association, not by the
enactment of fresh penal laws, but by the repeal of those which'
already existed.---(CheerS.)
Colonel FORDE bore testimony to the high character and
impartial conduct of Baron 'Clebind as a judge, and declared
h
isintention of supporting this Bill. •
Mr. C. IluTcurrrsom and Mr. PEEL rose at the same mo-
ment, amidst deafening cries of " Question." Mr. PEs:r.
having sat•down, •

• 31r:"C. HUTC'HINSON proceeded to address the House, buts
was inaudible for the greater part of his speech, in the gallery,
owing to the noise and coughing in the body of the House. The
first words that we caught of his speech were these—" Gen-
tlemen, you shall hear what it is my pleasure -to submit to
the House. You will only compel me to be ten times as te-
dious as I otherwise should be. by attempting to cough me
down. I trust, however, for the honour of the House, that you
will hear me, for I represent a large body of men, who deem
this question o vital importance to the interests of Ireland."
The Hon. Member then proceeded, amid much confusion, to
reiterate his opposition to this abominable measure, which he
considered to be full of mockery and insult to the 'Catholics of
Ireland. He trusted that if it were carried into a law in that
House; the Catholics would not only petition the House of
Lords to throw it out, but in case it passed there. would peti-
tion the Throne. to withhold from it the. Royal Assent.—
(Hear !)—After some further obserVations, he proceeded. to re-
mark, that he could not suppose that Lord Wellesley hail the
littleness of mind to be envious of the fame which the Catholic
Association had-already acquired. He would beg to ask the ,
Secretary at War, why, in a time of peace, the House Were, -in
a few days, to be sailed 'upon to vote 15,000 additional men to
the army ? It had been already stated, that Government-wanted.
but 5,0110 men for India. • What service, -then, were the other.
10,000 required for ?—( Loud and reiterated cries of,'`.,
tion.") they apprehend that there ~was any thing in:,thp
present aspect of the Continental Powers-to call for_sucti a vast
increase? If not, he would ask whether. Ministers had pur-
posely selected such a moment for insulting a Catholic popula-
don of 7,000;000 of souls ?—(" Questiors.r) •
• Mr. PEEL begged to assure the Hourie,-that at thatlate hour
life would not trespass on its,: attention longer than the few-oh
servations he felt it his duty to address to it would render neees-
sary. ,He was disposed readily to acquit.the Hon. Menaber of
any intention of seriously terrifying by any thing that had fallen
from him; he was also ready to acquit bins of any intention of
terrifying.hint personally. lie could assure the Hon. -Member,
that if he (31r. P.) belieYed such to be his intention', it was not
in that House he would appeal to him. As to any alarM of
Ministers losing their heads, or any apprehension from the pile
of petitions with which th'ey had been threatened on a former
night, he need not say, no real .ground of fear existed. Ile
Would not. at that hour follow. the Hon. Member throughlhak
topics of foreign policy ,and the army estimates which he thought
proper to obtrude on their attention. Neither would he
anticipate, the discussion on the -general measure of .Eman-
cipation, which Was likely to come under their attention in a .
few evenings. On thut:sUbject his opinions had been deliberately
formed. lie had no reason to regret or retract the part he had '
taken, and that he would continue to. take on that-qUes-
don. At the same time that, theßbuse would bear in. Mind
that he had not been opposed to all species of concession w the
Catholics. When. a Bill had been introduced into that I-104Se'
for the extension of some privileges.' to the Roman Cathblics,
he had supported it, and he now regretful that that measure
had not been successful. The opinions he had taken upon
this important• question were entirely his own : they were es-
' poused by him without any regard to party, and with a view'
to the general interests of the eutpite. An observation had
escaped. a Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Tierney)
few evenings since, which it was intended to . apply, be
thought, unfairly to him. His Right Honourable Friend the
.A ttorney-Ueneral for Ireland, in describing the state in which
Ireland was when the present Lord Lieutenant assumed the go-
vernment of that country, had described her as a vessel which
he had found upon the breakers. The Right lien. Gentle-
man (Mr. Tierney) had asked what would he (Alr. Peel)
say to that sentence who placed her in such a iitaation ?
He denied that he had done so. Lord %Wellesley entered uperi
the government of Ireland in 1821 : he (Mr. Peel) did not im-
mediately precede him. At the very same time did.he. (Mr.
Peel) accept the office of Secretary for the [loose Department.
It was true he had formerly fulfilled the office of Chief Secre"
Lary, is Ireland, hut he had left it.in the year 1818, and:he 105
not therefore accountable for the state of things in the year
1821. All he could say was, that when he left Ireland, al-
though he could not deny that some party spirit existed, yet It was in a state of general tranquillity. No violent proceedings
of associations then prevailed ; nor was there any angry. exacer-
bation of party animosities.—(Hear, hear !)—At the time
that the disturbances did break out, he believed n blairo
was imputable to any portion of the Govermnent of Ire-
land.. These disturbances, in a great degree, arose out sif
the distresses of the thness• out of the sudden revulsion Of
things that then occurred—the effect -of the . recurrence tie
cash payments, and the calamities consequent on the -close
of a protracted war, which were felt very heavily -in this
country, but which were felt in a very aggravated degree-in Ire-
land. These were the causes which led to that temppraridis-
turbance, of which Government was, he believed, wholly Inno-
cent, and which Government could not controul. Before he
sat down, he was anxious of adverting to the speech. of the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman, the Member for Win-
chelsea; in repleeto what bad fallen from him respecting:a state-
ment he, had made concerning an individual-31r. Hamilton
Rowan.
.It would be fresh in the recollection of the House,
that in a former discussion on this bill he had adverted to the
authenticated doCumefits of the Association. To them only did
he refer; and he even requested that he might be stopped if he
stated any thing in an exaggeraeed or unfair manner. • What lie
had remarked upon on that Occasion was, the publication of air
address to the people of Ireland on the very same day -that a
letter of thanks was voted to Mr: Hamilton Rowan. The terms
of the letter were—that the writer could not find language to
.convey the esteem in which the Association held the beloved
and respected name• of 31r. Hamilton Rowan, for the service
he had done Isis country. This letter, containing other enco-
miastic phrases on the character and conduct cf Mr. Rowan, was
signed by Mr. O'Gorman, secretary to the Catholics of Ireland. •
—All he said of these proceedings was' (he believed •he re-
membered the, very. words), that the Act was equiYocal—that
it was at least indiscreet—and that it was calculated to excite
suspicion and alarm as to the objects of the Association.---
(clear!)—Now he-(Mr. Peel) was
somewhat surprised. at the
,powerful speech of the lion. and Learned Gentleman, whom he
'always heard with great pleasureeand with great admiration of
his talents ; and after he had heard his statement, he was de-
termineded
.tomlt,annetetgathtttoeet
letter
ohboeesanbinhtet
:dacobodonmet
Irfeioeafar. nldefi
false
expressed
oeepwtutraleolilenldeunosdcssl
audieoeti
hrdlivfuaioetntri
ield,lie4yegdrart if-heaac
occupied
icelfttcouatuuodi
pnnecitdoete
odnhrt
erwti
hi
it.
—(Hear
the hit
ktaken
factse
iori;f.
one—and determined. also not to make an inglorious surrender
vice of Mr. Rowan to his country, and Concluded by
Rowan
(feohol I:eromeataenerdialtis)oecro-,
expres-
sion,
cwalsi
iiocui dan6wntallaihcsaahsotetacuitsntllreih,da
de
ba.sestsaeuit
teriiditenr,scoec
much
uvt
echyhi this
odgratitude
history v we
da s.
ot
fhoe3nis
rw.
ae sweetest reward
extractpu t the
froml ouicdecsedaoesanrianeitnnirdpeadpoxno cooperatedr
cistsoopsnonei
irsv.eswi(ticioii rei ot•
Secrethis
Committee character.
oef readl794i them e
showa
that he had been attained of high treason, that he had acknow-
lchw.elerhd
circumstances
allgni hsc se a
thetrr
wy ha
soideofehns
giroinannsnpcloewi
implicated
ha
Jackson,aot
ensded
trial3t hl at
Rowan, and subjected him to a similar charge. Yet it had
been asserted by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that he was

teceived by the lord Lieutenants of Ireland, and that he filled
tire office of Magistrate under what he termed the pink of
loyalty, Lord Manners and Mr. Saurin. It had been also relied
upon by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that he had not
been put upon his defence on that charge—that he had not an
opportunity of vindication. It happened that he was not tried,
but the cause of his not having been tried on that charge was
this :.—He had been found guilty of publishing a seditious libel
addressed to the United rishmen, an address adopted at , a
meeting of which Mr. Drennan was chairman, and Mr. Rowan '
secretary. For this seditious libel he was charged, convicted,
and sentenced to two years' imprisonment. Meanwhile, cir-
cumstances transpired which subjected hint to the charge of
high treason, but before the trial on this charge could take
Place, he fled the country. From that address he would, with
the permission of the House, read an extract :—" Citizens
soldiers, you first took up arms to protect your country.from
foreign enemies and from domestic disturbance : for the same
purpose it now becomes necessary that you should resume them.
A proclamation had been issued in England for embodying the
militia ; and a proclamation has been issued by the Lord Lieu-
tenant and Council in England. * Citizen soldiers, to
arms ; take up the shield of freedom and the pledges of peace
—peace, the motive and end of your virtuous institution—war,
'an occasional duty, ought never to be made an occupation.
Every man should become a soldier in defence of his rights.
No man ought to continue a soldier foroffending the rights of
others. The sacrifice of life in the service of our country is a
'duty too honourable to be entrusted to mercenaries, and
at this time, when your country has been by public authority
proclaimed in danger, we conjure you by your interest, your
duty, and your glory, to stand to your arms, and in spite of a
police—in spite of a fencible militia, it is only by the array of
a force in whom the people confide—by a' desire to preserve
Peace in your respective vicinages, that the present agitation
'can be stilled, the prevailing licentiousness put down, and pros-
perity restored in the speedy resurrection of a free constitution ."
the Right Honourable Gentleman proceeded -to read several
Passages from the address, which he contended to • be of a
nighly inflammatory character, and he did not think-that he
exceeded the bounds of strict propriety and even moderation,
when lie sail that such a letter, as lie had read, addressed to
such a man, was at least an act of indiscretion, and was cal-
ciliated to excite suspicion and alarin.—( Hear, hear !)—On
the private character of Mr. Rowan he did not at all animad-
Nen. As a father, a husband, and in the several relations of
private life, he was said to be, and he did not doubt that he was
deserving of the highest respect. But it was not in that capa-
city that he was addressed by the Catholic Association. They
addressed him as a public man, in the character and capa-
city of a public body.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—Luckily, the
persons to whom this address, exciting them to a civil com-
motion, was presented, did not obey it, and it failed in pro-
ducing the mischiefs which an observance of it must I,ave
heaped on the country. The Honourable Member for Win-
ehelsea had stated, that Mr. Hamilton Bowan had been
received in private life by persons of distinction ; there
existed no imputation against Mr. ROwan's private life, it
was only with his public conduct they had to deal, and the
most moderate language that could be,held respecting that con-
di c. was, that at best it had been very suspicious. The Hon.
Gentleman himself admitted Mr Hamilton Rthvan's connexion
with Jackson, who was implicated in'treasonable practices; he
gives.an account of the free pardon he had received from his'
Sovereign, but he stops there, and omits all mention of the
lenity of Lord Clare towards him, atur the kind protection he
had extended to his wife and children When Mr. Rowan was
absent from the country. What had been the language of Mr.
It Rowan himself when he entered the Court of King's Bench
to plead his Majesty's pardon ? He slated, that before he had
left his country he had known hiS Soyereign only by his acts
*V authority and command, but that lie had now to acknow-
ledge the support and protection afforded' his -deStitute family
during his absence. He owed his lift to his Sovereign's de-
nlency, and if he abstained from professions, it was only lest
his motive in making them might be misinterpreted, but he
trusted his future life would best eXplain what were the senti-
Ments of his breast, and atone forldS past errors. Such had been
the language of Mr. H. Rowan, and the only remark he (Mr.
Peel) should make was, that the nature of that address made
him regret the part Mr. Rowan eppeared since to have taken.—
The Honourable Member, in additionto his'statethent respect-
ing the reception of Mr. Rowan in Ovate life, had gone on to
inform the House, on the previous occasion to which he had
already alluded, that Mr. Rowan had been placed in the Ma-
gistrate's chair under the auspices of .Lord Manners and Mr.
Saurin. The Honourable Gentleman- had stated this boldly,
and he was mare if it would tOrn out' that the Statement was
erroneous
, it was at least unintentionally so on the part of the
e'l"onrable 'Member. However, had stated it boldly, and
''e (Mr.-Peel) had lately heard so. many erroneous assertions
with respect to and individuals, that; for his part, he was
Plc,lllingtO venture to contradict any statement however glar-
'4PY incorrect. He had, in, the present instance, made in-
quiry in the quarter most likely tdafford correct information on
the subject, and had that day received the document which he
now held in his hand, from the Ilanaper Office in Dublin.
It statedeethat search having been- made in the official records,
it was thereby ascertained that Mr: A. IL Rowan had not been
in the commission of the peace during the last twenty years.—
(Loud and protracted cheers.) He. thought the House would
be satisfied with this information and allOw that he had dashed
the poisoned chalice from theiiandS' of the Hon. Member,
Which he had commended to his lips.- The Hon. MeMber sat
down amid loud cheers.
Mr. BROUGHAM would trouble the House with a few
words in answer to what had been advanced by the Right lion.
.Secretarywho had just sat dowo ;. and, in the first place, no-
thing could be more perfectly.'different from the lion. Mem-
ber's speech upon .e former evening, than his own version of it
to-night. Few, indeed, could be able to 'recognize the tenor
of that speech in the Hon.'Member's repetition of it. But in '
his (Mr. Brougham's) meMory, there etWelt a recollection of
the words and sentiments uttered by the Right HMI: Secretary
on the occasion, and from . that recollection lie was free to say,
they were totally Unlike, and distinct from, the Moderate tone.
adopted in his speech of this night. No two things could be
formermore unlike. On the the_ Right lion. Secretaey
had asked if it was at all meant to.defend an Association which
to its own rash and illegal acts, had added the additional error
of addressing, in a respectful tone, in ettainted traitor ? These
Were the words of the Right -Hon. Secretary ;. and he appealed
to the calmer and more dispassionate part of, that House, who
neither sat here nor there, on his side or that side of the Hon.
Secretary—and he would add, he appealed to the better feeling
of the Hon.' Gentleman. himself, after the lapse of one week,
Whether these-were words to be uttered with impunity; and per-
mitted to pass without contradiction, when applied to an indivi-
dual who had not been convicted, by a, tribunal of his country ?
--(Hear !)—'Were such words to be uttered within these walls,
and in the face of the country, and was it not right that a con-
tradiction to.them should.go forth with an equal degree of pub-
iiCity ? Let the Hon. Secretary imagine himself for a moment
in the situation -of the gallant son of that calumniated nrian,,
and what would be his feelings at hearing his parent brand-
ed and denounced as an attainted traitor ? These were the.
expressions which he was not ashamed to say had excited his
(Mr. Brougham's) feelings of indignatiOn at the time, and he
had stood up in his place to defend Hamilton Rowan from such
an imputation--from that defence he would not now shrink.—
tie had defended the Catholic Association; who were charged
with having communicated in. respectful and friendly terms
with this attainted traitor—neither would he shrink from that
defence. And as nothing of the harshness of the original
charge had been abated except the tone 'of it, he was now going
again to enter upon the defenCe of :Hamilton Raman and the
Catholic Association. He would pass over much of the detail
of the transaction; it had been .admitted that Mr. Rowan
was not tried' on a charge of treason ; but if he was not,
Mr. Jackson had been, and said, the Honourable Gentle-,
man, Mr. Bowen was implicated• in some of the facts which•
'transpired on the trial of another party. It was wholly unne-'
Tessary to say any thing of such an inference—he would
leave it as he found without remark. But- said the
Honourable Secretary, Mr. Rowan has been tried. For what
had he been • treid ? Was it for felony ? Was it for treason ?
°l', was-it not rather for such a 'constructive crime as any ho-
nourable and patriotic man might,under similar circumstances,
have committed, and committed without feeling either shame.
or regret ? Mr. Rowan had been tried for a libel; and if the
Catholic Association have put forth an address to aman who
is accused of a crime which any virtuous man might have been
accused of blameless, are they to be stigmatized in such
" .I,,liguage as that adopted by his Majesty's Secretary for the Home
epartment ? If the Catholics have erred, in looking; with re-
Elect upon such an individual at the tirneof his conviction, they
no not appear io have profited by the experience of 31 years, so
as to amend that error, for they have this Session selected, as the
advocate' of their -claims, an Hon. Baronet, who, in peaceable
and settled times, was convicted of a seditious libel, and sentenced
to imprisonment upon the very banks of the river that washes
these walls.--( 11 ear !)--For his part,loooking to the circumstances
!ftlie time and thecountry,and looking to theterms of the alleged
libel he (Mr. Brougham) wbuld not .have cared to have set
his hand to it. What were the sentiments of the libel? Hamil-
ton Rowan had called upon the people to arm in defence of their
country ; and if he had meant to advise them not to stop there,
but after had repelled theforeign invader from their shores to se-
cure the possession of constitutional liberty, he had only clone
.that Parliament had done itself. And had not the Irish Par-
liament acted as it did on the occasion to which he alluded, it
_ as his opinion Ireland would not now be a part of this empire.
It!et•the House bear.in its recollection that these were troublous
times in which this man lived—times in which the name of
au
veneration,
individual, now never mentioned but with respect and
the did not wholly escape imputation. He alluded to
late Mr. Grattan. 'The name of that great and respected
character wae not safe from similar charges to those which

had been made against Mr. Rowan—accusations were made— '
the Privy Council deliberated—and it was only by a tempo-
rary absence that he had escaped the danger. Another part
of the charge was' capable of being met in another manner.
Mr: O'Gorman; whose signature appeared attached to the Ad.
dress, was not a Member of the Catholic Asaociatioa. But in
what manner had the Honourable Secretary stated the case
of Mr. Rowan's trial ? He commenced by reading the attain-
der' -and concludes with the accused's confession of gratitude
for his Majesty's free pardon, and the kind treatment of his
unprotected family. And, gracious God ! was the HouSe to
be told that- the only use of the !loyal mercy was to make it
serve to round a period, and point .a sarcasm against' parties
whom it might be the interest of Gentlemen at the other side
of the. House to vituperate and decry:, ? Above all, was the
King's mercy itself to be outraged by denouncing the object of
it as an attainted traitor? The Honourable Gentleman has
stated, that Mr. Rowan was received into private society of a
dignified character, on account of his private virtues and with-
out •reference to his public conduct. His (Mr. Brougham's) •
statement had been (and it remained uncontradicted) that Ha-
milton Rowan was received publicly at the levee of the Chief
Governor of the country. Another statement of his had been, •
and at the time' he had no more reason to doubt its correct-
ness
than the Honourable Secretary himself appeared to have,
that Rowan was in the Commission of the Peace. The fact
had been so 'represented to him on what :he'. then 'con- ,
sidered, and still continued to consider, very good authority, I •
however ,it might have fallen into error in the, present instance. '
He had stated the circumstance on the authority of a gentleman
from the sister country; he could, of course, himself have no '
knowledge of the facts, and had been perfectly ignorant of them
till within a few minutes of his addressing the. House. The mis-
take; for a mistake he believed it was, appeared to have originated
in' li is informant having seen the signature of Archibald Hama:.
ton Rowan subscribed to a loyal address of a particular nature,
which, from the tenor of its wording,. he- thought extremely
likely to lead a man, better informed upon the..subject than he
cculd pretend to be, into error. the document purported to be
" the Address of the undersigned, being Magistrates, and Grand
Jurors of the County of Down." Nothing could be more likely
to occasion a mistake than a document such as that ; and though
some Gentlemen might be disposed to construe the t 4 and" in
a. disjunctive sense, it certainly was capable of receiving the
other interpretation. He thought he heard some Hon.. Member
cry " Question." He assured the Gentleman, whoever he might
be, that he might betake himself again to the repose from which
he had been probably aroused, but it was his (Mr. B.'s) inten-
tion to proceed in his course in spite of the Hon. Gentleman's
interruption:—( Loud cheers.)—Many errors had crept into do.- •
cnments in public offices. It was answered that Mr. H. Rowan '
was not in the Commission of the. Peace. He had mentioned •
it. on the authority of three witnesses; who were as credible,
perhaps, asat Return' from. the Hanaper Office. He therefore
stood acquitted of any mis-statement.—(llear, hear !)—How
else could he have acted than believe and repeat it
.with posi-
direness ? ' But remove altogether from his statement the part
of Mr. Ilamihon Rowan's being a Magistrate--remove that
froth this loaternent, and still his defence remained impregnable.
(Hear, hear !)—He was granted a free pardon,—was that eeo-
thing ? He was restored to his freedom as a subject,—was that
nothing ?—(Cheers:)-lie was raised to pie dignity of a Magis-
trate, aye, and of Grand Juror, too—was not that any thing ?
(Continued cheers.)—He had had entrusted to him the preser-
yation of the King's peace.--.-Ite might have- been. engaged in
accusing, committing, and trying.for any offence, even for high
treason,-ewas that 'nothing ?—( Cheers: )—fl e had been taken
into favour and respect by one Lord Lieutenant after another;
and he could now read to the House a letter from one of those.
high and respected individuals, the Duke of Bedford.—(Cheers.)
Was it likely such a man could be favourable to the propaga-
tion of treason ? He would respect his opinion more than that
of those who made themselves (as they called it) the defenders
of the Altar and -the Constitution.—(l'l ear, hear !)—lt . was
more reasonable' to rely on him who had a personal as well as
hereditary title•to respect. There was nothing so valuable as
the authority of men who had a deep stake in the country, who
were'of high personal character; the opinion of such persons
was a truer test of loyalty than any that could be brought
forward on the other side. The Duke of Bedford's letter
ran thus :7-" The first official act of mine on going to Ire-
land was to recommend to his Majesty to grant a free pardon
to Mr. Hamilton Rowan.—(Cheers.)--A more honourable or
respectable gentleman there does not exist in all Ireland."—
(Continued cheers.)—The charge against the Association
then resolved itself to this—addressing, as they did, a man
whoth a Lord Lieutenant describes as possessing as much re.,
spectability as any of his Majesty's subjects. Why, then,
should not he have aright to complain ? He had been branded
as a traitor: -This had been done in the teeth of a free pardon.
• He was bratidedas a traitor on whom the Sovereign smiledeaml
• whose Ministers now come forward, and charge the Association
for their.addreSsing him, who attended, and had been received
too, by the Sovereign at: his- levee, with his Ministers about.
hint. No living being could charge the Association with being
indiscreet for holding intercourse with Hamilton nowati. 'No-
thing could be more unnecessary, thah :the attack on that gen-
tleman ; he envied not those who made it—he 'envied not those-
who could 'unnecessarily and uncalled foie wound that inch, .
vidual ; and still less did lie envy- those wile had attacked the:
Association. lie mould next advert to the charge against Baron'
APCleland. He. still believed theforMer statement; he had er •
communication with the man
_who Ins Counsel in thitt_ case. .
'That case presented two Views—firstlye the charge was specific;
secondly, the denial general and-argumentative. He (Mr. B.)-
lead been charged with using strong and too abuSive language...
His language, he felt, was not too stronie or abusive. He it,
was• not that made the charge
.originally ;:he had cited for it
high authority, that of an Hon. Gentleman_OPposite (Mr. Mar-
tin), it was not his (Mr: Brougham's) statement—.
" Non meus hie sermo secl'quern prece.picet fell"
Rusticus, ahnorrnixsapiens, traaseeque Mitiervie."
(Cheers and laughter:)—And what was the- fact ? A Gentle-
man, two years ago, presented a petition, to. that House, charge
ing Baron M'Cleland • with a m-alversatino. eof. justice, - and
praying to he heard at the Bar of the House by Counsel,
in support of his. -charge.• -With that liefore' him he saw
no reason to retract what' 'he had. said. In ecirieluSion, lie
entreated the House- to pause before it took thfit step, white!), it
might long, too long, deplore as the 'greatest evil. 'lle denounc-,,
eel it as the harbinger' of -evil, and as the ileitili•-blo'w of that ,
short reign of tranquillity; brought about by the Assecig.tion..r
In that view of the case, he teas
_strengthened, not "Weakened; -
by what he had heard'froin the opposite side;' he conjured - the
HouSe, before it tOokthat last step, to pause, while pattseit Might.
The Bill about tbbe passed, if pass it did, was not against the
Orangemen' but. the Catholicseend the Catholics only. He had.
hoped, that though the substance of justice was withheld„.that
still they would have the 'semblance 9 • it was the Catholics only
who were prohibited from meeting. (No, no, from the Ministe-
rial benches.) Fes, it was the Catholics, he *would repeat. it,
and prove it, toes- that the Catholics alone were to be put
down. What did the Bill say ? " No' persons are to meet to
petition for redress of grievances, or for a change in the Consti-
tution." Who ever heard of an Orangeman meeting to petition
for redress or grieirantes:-:-(Cheers:)-WhOeser "heard of their
praying for any alteration in the Constitution ? 'WhO was
so mad as to think them otherwise than glad, that things
should star as' they • were, that was their interest; alteration
would be fatal to them.—(Continued-cheers.)—`The Bill to the
Catholics. was a double-edged sword—against the . Orange-
men single' edged,; it 'prohibits in both secret meetings—it
prevents the Catholics alone from having open meetings—it
was under a mask, double-edged, against the Catholics. The
Orangemen rutty meet openly—they may have their l'arlia-
ment, provided they- meet not to alter. But was an Orange-
man to meet for such a purpose ?—they wished not for altera-
tion. He prayed the House, as it valued even-handed justice,
to pause. • If it were his last prayer, he would conjure them, if
they passed the Bill against the Catholics—ifthey imposed on
- them that remedyless and grievous injustice—it they closed
the door of conciliation—if they " shut the gates of mercy"
on the Catholics—,(Loud Cheers.)—he would implore that 'on
-next Tuesday they would recollect what they had done that
night.—( Loud cheers !)-This he conjured them to do, if they
were not dead to the voice Of justice. If that fatal step be to-
night taken, he imploredthein to give as an act of justice—to
give to. the Catholics Emancipation.—(The lion. Gentleman
e sat down amidst lOud: cheers, which -continued for some
minutes.)
Mr. PEEL rose amidst cries of -" Question." He said he
re-asserted many things that had before fallen- from him.—
(Cheers.)—He .had not_ of himself branded Mr. Rowan as a
traitor ; he had merely read an extract from the evidence taken
before the Secret Committee of the Irish Parliament, from
which it appeared that Mr. Rowan was " an attainted traitor."
The Right Honourable Gentleman was proceeding to protest
, against fns being censured' for the Course he had pursued,
when he was interrupted by. cries of " Spoke,. spoke," and
" Chair."

Strangers were then order :d to withdraw, and the House di.
tided, when there appeared— . -
For the third reading . , . 226
Against it _ - . . . 96 •
- Majority . - - 130

The Bill was read a third time and passed.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at A QUARTER. TO ONE O'CLOCK.

Sir IV. CußTis, who had been absent for some titre on
account of indisposition, was last night in the House of
Commons.
COPERNICUS.—During the early part of the
life of .this great man when he studied at Rome-,
he received the name of Copernicus.

At a late hour this morning we received I.}y
Express from Paris the Etoile dated -yesterday.
It does: not contain any news whitever. The
Renter at half-past three o'clock. on Thursday
were 10.11. 95c. for money, and .1051. sc. for the.
end of the month.

The Paris Papers of Wednesday and the
Etoile dated Thursday arrived last night. It is
stated in the latter Journal that the health of the
King of SPAIN daily improves ; and that on the
representation of the Consulates of the Havannah
and of Cadiz the import duty on sugar from the
Spanish Co:onies is reduced to four reals per aroba
instead of eight, and on Coffee it is wholly
abolished. Puerto Rico and the Philippines will
continue to enjoy the exemption they formerly
obtained by Royal favour. The rest of the in-
telligence from I‘ladrid consists of a fabricated
account of victories by. land
and sea alleged
to have been obtained by the Royalists in
South America. The total defeat of Boi.i-
VAIL near Cuzco, and the destruction of the
Colombian army is said to have occurred

INDIA HousE.---The length of the Parliament,
:try De bates, and other pressing matters, oblige
us to defer our Report of the Debate yester-
day, at the India House, till Monday next.

The Russian Minister of Popular Instruction,
in order to guard against the introduction of
foreign ad venturers.as teachers in private families,
has announced' his determination to enforce the
Imperial Ukase -of 1757 relative to educa-
tion, which requires that all teachers should
be furnished with proper testimonials of their
ability to instruct youth, and bring satisfactory
proofs Of their moral qualifications.
Mr. Secretary CANNING was attended yester-
day by Dr.-Ilor.r.ANn and Dr. SHUTER. Al-
though the Right lion. Gentleman still remains
confined, eve are happy to was pronounced
to be in a considerably improved state.
Prince Por.tox.kC, the ..French AmbaSsador,
transacted business with the CHANCELLOR. of the
Excrt EQUER yesterday.
:Yesterday the Earl of JlAttkoweY and the
Earl of WEsTsronctArln transacted business at
the Foreign Office. • • -
We regret to -state,' that the Lady of Lord
COCHRANE lies- extremely ill, at her house in
Park-street, Grosvenor-square..
- Much has been said by the Editors of several
of the French Papers concerning the Treaties of
ComtherCe entered into between oursever'alAgents
in South America and-the- Governments- establish
ed there ;• but will not all rational people con-
trast'the conduct of their Government with ours,
their's' having forged the fetters, and rivetted
the • chains by. which a gallant nation has been
enslaved ; whilst the conduct of our's has been
to enrich every nation we have-entered into trea-
ties with, and to add to the peace and prosperity
of. the world.
• MADAME CATALANI'S FOUR GRAND CONCERTS
previous to her Departure for the Continent:—
Madame CATALANI has the konour to inform the
Nobility, Gentry, and Public, that her Concerts
will lake place on the four first Thursdays in
March, viz. the 3d, 10thi• 17th, and 24th at the
Argyll Room, and that she will sing no where
else than 'at these Conceits.—Tickets 103.. 6d.
each. Application for-Tickets and Boxes to be
made at the Room, or at Mr.CITAPPELS SO, New
Bond-street.—Further particulars will be duly
announced. •

The Opera 'of Der Preischitti is performing
with great success in. Dublin, under the manage-
ment of Aano•rT. Miss Fonnr., late of Drury-
lane Theatre, has been much admired in the part
of Agnes. This actress 'had not an opportunity
of rising to her proper heightin London. She
possesses a good voice, and" had a good musical
education under the instruction of Mr. ROOKE,
who directed the Orchestra last season at Vaux-
hall Gardens.

MARSH, STItACEY, AND Co.--A meeting of
the creditors that have subscribed for the pur-
pose of having the accounts of Marsh, Stracey,
and Co. investigated,' was held last night at the
Oxford Tavern, Oxford-street, for the purpose
of receiving the report of the accounts from the
Sub-committee. J. I.Loyn, Esq.. was called to
the Chair. The Chairman, after Opening the
business, directed their attention to a singular
circumstance. -that in 1814, a new account was
opened, anti continued in the hand-writing of
Fauntleroy alone ; yet' in a few months it re-
ceives indiscriminately the hand-writing of
Messrs. Stracey and Graham, along with that
of Mr. Fauntleroy, until Juie, 1824, from
which date, to-the failure of the house, the whole
of the credit side is again solely in the hand-
writing- of Mr. Fauntleroy. A Member of the
Committee then stated, 'that they had made im-
portant discoveries, but did not deem it politic to
make them public,seon ded
Jest ,
ada
itnrncigrtritied unanimously,prejudice
them
It was moved,c
" That the solicitors be requested 'to attend the-
"public meeting on Monday next, and take such
course with respect to the last examination of the
bankrupts as they may deem expedient and ad-
vantagous for the interest of the creditor's." The
I meeting then adjourned.