The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-07 00:00:00

Vlitrb Mbttion

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock, but
some time elapsed before a House was made.
THF
_PEACE MOVEMENT.
Mr. BROTIItRTON presented petitions from Lan
cashire and North Wales praying that all national dis-
putes may be settled by disinterested arbitrators.
Captain HARRIS presented a similar petition from
Christchurch.
THE NAVIGATION-LAWS.
Sir EDWARD FILM ER presented petitions from
the mayor mad corporation of Gravesend, and also from
the owners and masters of ships who had sailed to all
parts of the world, praying that there might be no
alteration in the navigation-laws.
THE FINANCIAL MOVEMENT.
Mr. PAGE WOOD presented petitions from several
places praying that the expediture of the army, navy,
and colonial agents may be reduced to the rate of 1835.
RATE IN AID.
Sir D. NORREYS presented. a • petition from the
Union of Mallow, praying that the rate in aid might be
equally applied to the whole of Ireland. -
REPRESENTATION OF SOUTH DERBYSHIRE.
The SPEAKER announced that he had received no-
tice of the death of Mr. Mundy, the representative for
the Southern Division of Derbyshire.
TRANSFER OF REAL-PROPERTY.

On the motion being put for the second reading of this
Bill,

Mr. H. DRUMMOND said that, previous to entering
on the peculiar merits of the question before the House,
he felt it necessary to state. a few of the facts out of
which it had arisen; and in the beginning he must say
that this was not a matter in which the lawyers only were
concerned, for it was peculiarly a question in which the
owners of landed property were especially affected, and in
which they were almost solely interested. With the altera-
tion—if it were effected—the lawyers, as a body, would
have no reason whatever to be dissatisfied. He would,
therefore, now simply repeat that in taking up this case
of the difficulties of landed property it was necessary
for him to show how the present emergency of the
proprietors had been brought about. The difficulty in
which landed proprietors were now placed was no new
thing ; it had always existed, even from the very period
of the conquest, and ho might say before it. To show
that such was the case he would read them an extract
from the book of a celebrated lawyer. But he must
previously remind the House that all lands under the
feudal system were originally held by military tenure.
Each holding supplied its men capable and ready
for warlike service, and wherever the occupant
was unfit or thought to be unfit for such ser-
vice the lord of the land did not hesitate
to remove him, and put another that was so fit
in his place. This had led to the supposition that there
were some peculiar qualities in, and some singular rights
connected with, land. But he must contend that it was
neither more nor less than, a commodity, disposable as
other articles were to be disposed of, and capable of be-
ing dealt with as all other commodities were dealt with.
The landlords of these days, however, required other
than military services, and, pretty much like their suc-
cessors in the prisent day, frequently got into debt.
Their creditors, unable to force them to payment, or to
seize their land, in consequence of their means of resist.
ance, naturally went to the judges. Well, this lawyer
said that the judges, also naturally, when they were sp.
plied to to give power and authority to seize the land,
said no; but it the landlords keep the laud, they shall not
have a hoof to put upon it. The remedy for the evil
was certainly at the best inconvenient, generally dan-
gerous, and sometimes impossible. The landlords them-
selves, too, when inclined to get rid of the inconvenience
of debt were equally at a loss. They had nothing to give
in discharge of their obligations but their land, and
that they were unable to pass away, and hence their
distress. It was true that a great part of this system
died away at the close of the- Tudor dynasty.
But was there of necessity any reason in the power now
exercised by the Court of Chancery, which was first of
all to say, when any unforseen contingency arose in the
transfer of property, what course was to be adopted,
and secondly, to devise the means of carrying it into
effect. He thought where •• they had an hereditary
aristocracy that was csiential to that condition of so-
ciety; but he did not think it was necessary to every
other. But he was not going to enter into that subject.
The expenses of sales of property were immense, owing
to these causes. He held in his hand a list which suffi-
ciently exemplified the costs arising on the sale of small
properties. In one case, where the value of the pro-
perty sold was 5001., the costs were 1241.; in another,
where the value of the property sold was 1501., the cost
of transfer was 501., and in another, where the value
of the property sold was 6201., the expense of trans'er
was 2001. He said, then, that every attempt that had
been made to diminish the expense of transfers under
the present system was entirely useless. He should be
glad to know how they could predetermine the length
of a conveyance. If they wanted to shorten
the recital, they must shorten the deed itself.
They were completely in the hands of the lawyers at
present. The landowners knew nothing whatever about
the titles to their land. A solicitor brought them a
paper to sign, and they signed it, and put their hand
upon a seal, and then repeating after him, they signed
and delivered it as their act and deed ; and they knew
no more about the contents of the document than the
poor, helpless young girl who came to sign her
marriage settlement did of the nature and operation of
that instrument.--(Hear, hear.) Now, he contended
that it was above all things nicessary and desirable to
cut up the root 'of those evils. The only means by
which the House could effect this alteration efficiently
was by a register in the first place, and by making the
entries on the register book evidence of the transfer of
the property. There were great objections to registra-
tion he knew ; the best summary of those ob-
jections was to be found in the third volume
of Sir Edward Sugden's " Vendor and Purchaser,"
where he summed up all the objections. The question
was, who was to register ? Oh, said the landlord, I
am to register. Why ? Because lam the owner of the
land. Oh, said the lawyer, on the other hand, I am to
register. Now, an equity lawyer was very like a police-
man.—(Laughter.) A policeman never saw a man with
a good coat on his back but he wished to have him
before a magistrate, simply, because he was the owner
of a good coat, and envied him for it.—(Laughter.) Talk
to a lawyer about your property, and the first question
he asked was—has there ever been an examination of
your Title. He (Mr. Drummond) believed substantial
justice would be done in 99 cases out of 100 if the House
passed a declaratory Act that every man from this hour
should have a Parliamentary title to all his estates. Lawyers
had a perfect horror at the notion of a man's having
possession of his own estate.—(Laughter.) He would
say to landed gentlemen, if they wanted to get this
done without bringing their title-deeds and laying them
upon the table before every pettytogging attorney, that
he would advise them to support this Bill.—(Hear,
hear.) They thought, no doubt, that was not very
palatable. There was a Commission sitting at
the present moment, and he (Mr. Drummond)
happened to know some of the " secrets of the
prison house." An eminent man on that Commission
said to a witness—" I know very well there is not such a
thing in my belief as a strictly marketable title, and I know
that a court of equity will nut compel any man to take
a title that is not free from doubt, either as to matter of
fact or of law. We then submit, on the part
of the vendor, an abstract of title to coun-
sel, and request him to advise upon that ab-
stract, with the view of stopping up the loop-
holes in the title; counsel then gave their opinion; what
can be supplied was supplied, and what can't he sup-
plied was a matter of consultation with counsel, and then
the conditions of sale are settled." That was a legal
question put to a witness by one of the most eminent
men, and the answer of the witness was that he did not
disagree with the words in the interrogatory, Now,
Sir Edward Sugden said that out of 50 titles the 50th
only was bad. That showed, at all events, that the ex-
amination of the title was a great difficulty under the
present system. In framing this 11:11, he (Hr. Drum-
mond) had to consider, first of all, this House; and,
secondly, his (Mr. Drummond's) position in it. He must
know how far the landed gentlemen in the House were
prepared to go. They could not bore a hole with
a saw. If ho knew the extent to which the
landed proprietors would go, he would then frame his
Bill exactly to that point; but he had been compelled to
frame his Bill without knowing exactly where be was to
slop, and under the apprehension that he might stop
short. Now, one objection to registration was the
making it compulsory. (Hear, hear.) Now, if
they meant to have a compulsory registration,
there must be a machinery already prepared on the same
day to receive every title-decd. Now, in Edinburgh
alone there was business enough to fill 400 folio vo•
lumes at least. Ile thought registration should cer-
tainly be voluntary for a great many reasons; any-
thing that was compulsory with property was always
dangerous; and, secondly, view it as they would, they
were laying the foundation for altering the whole body
of law; and he thought the more cautiously they pro-
ceeded the More the House would feel its way. The
Honourable Gentleman went en to say that he
had no personal motive in bringing this matter before
the Hoase, and ,concluded by saying that he should not
propose to go into Committee with the Bill until the
courts of law again sat at Westminster, when the House
would have the assistance of the ablest lawyers in the
House in discussing its merits —(Cheers )
The SOLICITOR,-GENERAL was satisfied that the
Hon. Member (Mr. Drummond) would not find among
the members of the profession of the law any difference
of opinion respecting the great evils arising from
the complication ee
porlance of simplifying the and the great im-
p transfer of property
and of raising money upon it.—(llear.) That- s
the
strong desire among the members of the profession, so
far as he was acquainted with their feelings. Irohlieelittehre
Hon. Member introduced his 8111 ho (the sV
•
General) looked at it with a sincere desire that it would
remedy the existing evils. lle-believed,however,if it were
carried into effect Just as it stood the only persons that
would benefit by it to a great extent would be the whole
class lawyers.—(lfear, hear.) The question of registra-
lion had attracted the attention of lawyers for a con-
siderable time, and the objections to it had not come
from the lawyers, themselves. Fifteen years ago, when
a Commission on registration made a report, only one
lawyer of any considerable eminence was found opposed
to it. The greater part of the opposition to registra-
tion had always "'An from country gentlemen. He
believed they Would-be the persons principally benefited
by it. With respect to theßill, a few observations upon some
of its provisions would convince the House, and ho hoped
the Lion. NeLuber for ISlArrey, pi the utter hopelessness