The Sun.
London, England, 1836-08-02 00:00:00

was,
ductien of. 30 per cent. from the income of the
ow nee. i
of 25 per cent., as in the Bill of last
year. The Lords have raised the rent-charge to 751.,
there appearing to be no reason for deducting from
the income of the clergy 5 per cent. more this year
than Ministers themselves proposed to deduct last
year. The " appropriation clauses," which were re-
peated in the Bill of this year, have been struck out by
the Lords, who, so far from permitting the Ministers
to cushion the measure after the fashion of last year,
have carefully amended it throughout, and returned it
to the Commons efficient for all good ends, but neither
apoliatina the church nor saddling the consolidated
fund with a new charge of one or two millions. It is
great importance that the public should bear in
mina what the Bill, as amended by the Lords, effects.
It puts an end to tithes in Ireland, and establishes a
rent-charge in lieu of them, payable by the landlord
in consideration of a deduction of 25 per cent., of
which the landlords will have the benefit. All the
pasties to this commutation are satisfied, so that at
least this ground of clamour will be stopped up, and
tranquillity in the ,'ame proportion be restored to Ire-
land. The remaining i'eortion of the Bill applies to
the seauistion of the ecelesia:tacal establishments in
Ireland,—pruning where necessarv,--increasing where
there ought to be increase,—and getting -rd of thoese
blemishes by which the church is deformed. Can
a Bill be with decency rejected ? The rejection of it
would, in our opinion, be a most unjustifiable and
scandalous proceeding.—Times.
It is this evening to be determined by the House of
Commons whether the Irish Tithe question shall be le-
gislatively set at rest, or indefinitely postponed, for the
gratification of a domineering faction. Nothing now
stands in the way of that settlement, save the extra-
vagant and unjustifiable determination of the Roman
Catholic Radical faction, and the IVlinisterialists,
who have become subject to that faction, that they
will not suffer even their own plan for the commuta-
tion of tithe into a rent charge, payable by the owners
of the land, to become law, unless the Bill shall em-
body a certain abstract principle, with regard to
Church property, which has no natural nor necessary
connection with the practical matter to be adjusted.
This is the real state of the case ; and, looking at it
thus, it seems scarcely credible that in a period which
is vaunted as peculiarly enlightened, and in a
House of Legislature which proudly calls itself
" Reformed," so great a piece of folly should
be gravely maintained, and so obstinately adhered to.
Wet find the Ministers in both Houses—at least, we
have hitherto found them—asserting in the same
breath almost, that the change of the tithe into a rent-
charge payable by the landowner was of most vital im-
portance as an act of policy, of justice, and even of
humanity, and yet that it would by them be abandoned
unless the " appropriation clause' was made part of the
law which should effect this change. But we have
never beard any attempt to show why the importance,
or the justice, or the humanity of this would be less,
because the principle which was adopted from the
O'Connell party at the beginning of 1835 should not
happen to be coupled with it. We have never seen
any argument to show that there really was any con-
nection between the operation of the proposed law for
changing the nature of the Church's claim upon landed
property, and the acknowledgment of the appropriation
principle by Act of Parliament. We remember, indeed,
much argument and much eloquence having been em-
ployed to show that the exaction of tithes by Protes-
tant clergymen from poor Roman Catholic occupiers was
a bad system, productive of bitterness and hatred be-
tween the Protestant Church and the Irish peasantry.
We have heard of the ruinous effects upon the character
of all parties concerned, from the working of this tithe
system—of the hard-heartedness and worldliness which
it impressed upon the character of God's servants, and
the miserable distress, and consequent detestation and
revenge, on the part of the Roman Catholic peasantry,
to which it led. Our sympathies were appealed to as
sufficient evidence that a system which wrung from the
soaring peasant the cow or the potatoes on which his
family depended for existence, and did this for the sup-
port of a religious establishment in the instruction of
which he could not participate, was a system which
reason and feeling must alike condemn. " Liberals"
were never weary of this theme. Every time that the
subject came before them some new argument arose,
some fresh appeal to the sensibilities of the country was
invented, for the purpose of exhibiting in the most vivic
colours the necessity of putting an end to the tithe sys-
tem, and providing for the Church in some other way.
What then shall we now say to the consistency of these
Liberals, who, having it in their power to effect all
that they have represented as so desirable, refuse to do
so ? Have they forgotten the force of their own argu-
ments ? Have their hearts become callous to those
re-
presentations of misery, arising out of the tithe system,
with which they assailed the hearts of others ? Un-
doubtedly this must he so, if when the opportunity of
making the change they have so long contended for is
in their hands, they refuse to avail themselves of it,
because they will not be allowed to have another and
a totally distinct subject settled, not only at the same
time, but in the very same Bill. Every argument and
every representation they have heretofore made must
• rise up in judgment against them to condemn the fac-
tious obstinacy with which they now retard the accom-
plishment of their own views. By such obstinacy
they prove that the sufferings and agonies of the poor
peasantry which they have so often dwelt upon—the
injustice of forcing tithes from Roman Catholic occu-
piers, instead of from Protestant landowners, which
they eclaimed upon, are after all nothing in their
estimation, compared with carrying a point of party
controversy in a particular way. • They had rather that
all these sufferings, and all this injustice should con-
tinue, than that they should be removed by an Act
of Parliament from which an abstract principle uncon-
nected with the business of collecting the property of
the Church, should be excluded. It is offered to re-
lieve the Roman Catholic occupiers altogether from
the payment of tithe, and to levy a charge in lieu of
that tithe from the landowners, who are almost all Pro-
testant ; and this, it is said, the Liberal" party will
refuse, because they may not enact at the same time,
that provided there-he a surplus of revenue beyond
what the service f the Fstablished Church requires, it
shall be applicable to
the' education of all religious
classes. Sorel}, factious ous obstinacy, and blind neglect
of practical good, cannot
hin-
ders the paity which calls itself
this. What
aself
Liberal, to take so
much of good as is offered'
by adjustment of the
tithe question, in the manner they the
proposed them-
selves, and to bring in another measuresl to establish the
appropriation principle ? It is
a
i
tical fact can be, that, with all the powerear as a,
which ,y
the Li-
beral party may suppose itself to possess,
enough of power to settle the Irish tithe' question, has not
and
to carry the appropriation principle
in one Bill.
man with enough of sense to know time difference
between a vote for and a vote against—betives
m possi-
bility and impossibility, must know this to be the fact.
Supposing then that it be desirable to carry both—that
is, both the commutation of tithe and the
appropriation
principle, what madness must it not be to insist upon
carrying them both at once ? This amounts to saying
that " though both be very desirable, we will have
neither, because we cannot have both," which is ab

surd. We earnestly hope that enough of Members
will be found this evening to see this absurdity, and to
turn the scale in favour of moderation and ,common

sense—to take what they can get, and leave what they
cannot get at present for future settlement. We be-
lieve the ‘. appropriation" principle to be an exceed-
ingly bad principle, and we hope it may never be ad-
mitted in an Act of Parliament; but if we
ri-n.ich in its favour as we are ag we would
ainst it,were as
not
insist upon it at the very time that by so doing we
should foifeit the settlement of the Irish tithe ques-
tion.—Morning Herald.

To-night the House of Commons will be once more
called upon to decide upon the appropriation principle
of the Irish Church Reform Bill—a principle which
may fairly be considered as vital to the continuance of
the existing Church Establishment. in Ireland—vital
to the stability of the Melbourne Ministry—and, more
than all, vital to the peace of Ireland, and to the per-
maucnce of her union with Great Britain. The House
of Commons has so frequently and so distinctly de-
clared itself upon this question; and the country has
been so surfeited with discussion upon its merits, that
it is as insulting to the representatives of the people to
attempt to force them to retract their reiterated con-

firmation of the principle, as it would be offensive to
the people theinselvtas to'vaste words in insisting, upon
lieliegessity.pf a measure the justice and expediency
of whia aamit of no questidn in any honest and rational
mind. The result of this evenings debate is not to be
considered only as it affects the Irish Chnech, but as it
involves consequences which affect all parties and inte-
rests in the country. As regards the Irish Church, even
if the appropriation clause were carried through both
branches of theregislature, still the 'proposed Bill could
not be considered as either a satisfactory or permanent
settlement of the question ;—and we are only sur-
prised at the forbearance of the Irish people in con-
senting to accept, even as a temporary adjustment, any,
measure which sanctions the unholy principle of
mulcting the majority of a people for tlui support of
the religion of the minority. The people of Ireland
should never be satisfied until the religion of the ma-
jority receive, at least, as much support 4114 prOteCkpn
from the State as that of the minority. Scotland is
allowed the undisturbed enjoyment of her national
creed—then why should not Ireland ? For this rea-
son, it is not on account of the sueee44 pf the pending
Bill that we wish Ministers an increasing majority this
evening, but on account of the horrors to which Ire-
land Will be exposed, if by any ffttAlity the House of
Commons should prove faithless to their duty, and even
for. b, day suffer a ruthless and sanguinary faction to
‘-iumpli over the Ministers of the people. Of this, how-
-re need be no apprehension, There will not be
ever, tie_ ehe Irish Church carried this Session ;
any reform of
the total abolitionii
pue-
tiloroolifgitointheQs,f
nor do we regret it, as
or the recognition by the u.P.ate
of
, is sv worth the
the majority of the people, e..
chase of a few months' delay, and one or both of
these results must inevitably be the consequence 61' de-
ferring the settlement of the question. In this regard,
the Tories, by their opposition, are placing the best
spoke in the wheel of Reform, and accelerating the ve-
locity of its motion. But, should Ireland see herself
deserted and betrayed by the Commons of England—
and the Ministry pledged to do her justice ousted from
office by a faction sworn to her persecution, it is fearful
to contemplate the measures to which, in her despera-
tion and abhorrence of Orange ascendancy, she may
have recourse. If the Commons shrink from the asser-
tion of the appropriation principle, we expect nothing
less than a rebellion in Ireland. Are the Tories pre-
pared to drive a whole people to insurrection ? Do
they imagine that England would lend her aid against
a people, the justice of whose quarrel she should ap-
prove ? Wellington, in very despair of ruling Ireland
by the bayonet, yielded Catholic emancipation. He
well calculated the resources he could command, and
the opposition he should have to contend against ; and
after the blustering of his supporters, similar to the
foolish swaggering they at present indulge in, the Great
Captain, like Macbeth, despairing his charm, turned
recreant, with the exclamation—.
" I will not fight with thee I"
Ireland has not lost, nor has the faction gained hi
strength, but the contrary, since that time. Will the
Tories or Churchmen then dare to brave a nation's
vengeance ? We implore them to pause ere it be too
late ; if not for the sake of Ireland, for their own sake,
we entreat them to abandon their opposition to a na-
tion's rights, and by a speedy acquiescence with the
demands of justice, endeavour to make some atone-
ment for the manifold wrongs which Ireland has suf-
fered at their hands. Let them not make a principle
which their advocates, however falsely and for party
purposes, describe as " barren," the grounds of a civil
war. Has not enough of blood been already shed in
Ireland in attempting to uphold an Establishment re-
pudiated by the people, without pouring forth fur-
ther oblations on the altars of persecution ?
of all kinds, and in all countries, has been ever
desecrated by evil-minded men and made the pretext
of the blackest crimes, and of this no country presents
a stronger illustration than Ireland at the present
moment. There we sec oppression, and plunder,
and murder devastate the land in the mask of Chris-
tianity, and the ministers of the Gospel enforce the
word and the tenths with the Bible in one hand and
the bayonet in the other. Who can be surprised that
Protestantism has retrograded under such a disgraceful
system ? We repeat that the Church system in Ire-
land is both disgraceful and criminal, and they who
contend for its perpetuation cannot be sincere friends
to religion of any kind, and least of all to the Estab-
lished religion of Ireland, now sinking under the ac-
cumulated
abuses in defence of which they are so
clamorous. We have no doubt of seeing an increase
to the Ministerial majority this evening, though,
thanks to the Lords, we need expect no benefit to re-
sult therefrom in the present Session. In the next we
must be prepared to go to the root of the evil, and
reform the House of Lords itself. This now must be
the key to all future reforms. We may waste Session
after Session in idle debates, without accomplishing
any good, until this first great and necessary measure
be accomplished. The chief text of our commentary
for months to come must be Reform the House of
Lords.—Morning Advertiser.
The question to be decilled to-night in the House of
Commons is, simply whether the Legislature shall do
something or nothing towards the suppression of that
anti-tithe war in Ireland, which is but another name
for social disorganization, for the ruin of property of
every description, for the paralysis of honest industry,
for the uncontrolled career of robbery and murder.
The Ministers of the Crown, and those Members of
the House of Commons who support them, mean, it
is understood, to express, by their votes to-night, that
in their estimation the anti-tithe war is a good thing—
that it is truly liberal to regard social disorganization
as a matter of indifference—that the ruin of property
of every description, and the paralysis of honest in-
dustry, ought to be endured without regret—and that
the unabated career of, robbery and murder is an evil j
of the most insignificaiitcharacter compared with that
of the House of Commons seeming to abandon, for a
moment, the abstract and inoperative principle of ap-
propriation by means of which the present Ministers of the
Clown forced themselves into office. The Ministers of
the Crown have made their choice, and they expect
that this choice will be ratified by a majority of
the House of Commons. We lament that such should
have been the decision df the Government of Great
Britain, for we do not think that a continual succession
of murders, or that the state of society from which a
continual succession of murders must necessarily flow,
-e desirable things. But the election, it appears, is
made ;a
if the House of Commons do not this
evening disappoint the expectation of his Majesty's
Ministers, the Irish and the British people must abide
the consequences. We wish to treat this cre :tion
without the slightest indistinctness or equivocation ;
and we declare our conviction to be, that every Member
of_the House of Commons who votes to-night for the

rejection of the Irish Tithe Bill will be morally guilty

,
of every crime of robbery, and arAn, and murder which
the present state of the tithe law in Ireland may pro-
: duce for the next year. This sum of guilt is awful to
' c
is iiten
iplate ; but there is not, we believe, in our mode
of computation the slightest tendency to exaggeration.
admitted
ties that if t 1
by statesmen of all grades and por-
tico a commutation of tithe were ef-
fected in Ireland as. would exonerate the Roman Ca-
cliche tenantrayr(frsom its immediate payment, much would
sbeecudroiitiye, towards
This is certainly an
eirtahtetzedsatoartaptrioonspeorfitys,,tatlhaptecaoceunatrn;l.
till
indisputable,
and we may therefore
why is such a commutationti ( isp tnaobtl et ,0 pbreo lei
wo se ict
ti
co
crii .? OW,l'is it
take it to be 'an
because the terms of this commutation cannot be
By no means. _ . There. is no dispute
agreed upon ?
about terms but what
is
s the Church of Ireland
prompt and easy
o f
The
ee
ellaeyry'o
proposed arrange-
adjustment. Is it because
wishes to make, under colourp obflethoef
arrange-
ment, some inroad upon the property
sub-
jects of the Crown ? By no means.
the Protestant Church of Ireland are quite satisfied
with the arrangement embodied in the present Bill. Is
it because the landholders of Ireland are dissatisfied
with the proposed settlement ? Nothing of the kind.
The landholders of Ireland would to a man hail this
settlement as a harbinger of prosperity and peace.
Why is it, then, that the Bill is to be thrown out ?
It is fit that the world should comprehend this last
question, and the reply—the only reply which it can
possibly receive. The Bill intended to put an end,
and which would put an end, to the career of robbery
and murder in Ireland is to be thrown out, if his Ma- :

jesty's Ministers can command a majority in the House