The Sun.
London, England, 1822-07-18 00:00:00

Mr..BROUOLIA3I.--" They,need not be alarmed.7'._.q,:3.

laugh.) • -
Mr. MONCK presented Petitions from several bodies of
Journeymen Mechanics to the same effect.
Upon the reading of the Petitions, the Clerk read as fol-
lows :--'• This is a Petition from the Journeymen Shoemakers, -.
from the Journeymen Bricklayers, from the NVkavers, from.
the Journeymen Tailors, and from a Hugh Parsons." The •
last description of the Petitioner was generally understood in• 7
the House to be, ". and from a fine parsons.", The 'mistake,
occasioned shouts Of laughter. • • -
• Mi. SCARLEVF presented a Petition froni the Publicans
and Licensed Victuallers of Peterborough against the Beer Bill:
The Petition, with all the :Iregoing ones presented upon -
this subject, was ordered to be printed.
A Message from the Peers announced their Lordships' As-.
sent to the Small Notes Bill, and several others.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.—MR. HOPE.
• The Order of the Day for the attendance of Mr. Hope and
Mr. Menzies being read. •
Mr. W. COURTENAY moved " that Mr. Hope be now
called in."

The motion being agreed to, Mr. Hope made his appearance
at the bar of the House. .

The SPEAKER.--." Mr. Hope, I have to inform you, that
on the 9th of July a complaint was made to this House, that a
',letter had_ been addressed to an Hon: Member, taking notice
of a speech delivered by him in this House, when certain pas-
sages of the letter were read, and declared to be a breach of
the privileges of Parliament. Have the goodrkss to laok at
that letter, and state whether it was written by you."
Mr. Hope-replied in the affirmative.
The SPEAKER.—" The House came to a resolution tint
the said printed letter was a breach of its privileges, and or-
dered you to attend here this day. If you have any thing to: •
say in explanation of the contents of that letter, now is the time
at- which you are allowed to do so."
Mr. HoPE then addressed the House.—He commenced by '
begging to thank the,House for the opportunity which it had af-
forded him of explaining the causes which had placed him in his •
present situation. In doing so it was not his wish or purpose to
state any thing which would be at variance with the Resolution
to which the house had conic, as he was fully sensible that the
letter which he had found it necessary to write was a breach-of
its established privileges. But he hoped. that many circuin-
stances woUld Induce the-House to consider it rather as a techni---
cad infringement of its forms, than as a serious and meditated at-
tack upon its privileges and authority. Every view which:he
entertained of the character of the House would forbid his tak,--
ing such a step; regarding as he did such privileges, to be no
less the privileges of the people than of the House. Every
one, he thought, must own that he had been placed in a cruel-
situation ; and howeverpainful to his feelings, the only course '
which he thought he could take was that direct attempt to vin-
dicate his honour and his character. He hoped the House would •
have regard to the circumstances under which that course was
adopted, and to-the state of his feelings at the time he committed • ,
the act, which placed him in the situation of an offender against
its privileges. Ile wished the House to be aware that he did not
publish the letter with an intention to call its authority in,
question, but solely with a view to vindicate his professional -
character from an unfounded and unjust attack. The charges
were of a most serious character. They were those of a mali-
cious yrosecution, and a violation of professional duties. It
was said that he instituted a prosecution against an individual
without intending to pursue it, and that, too, for the purpose
of prejudging the case of one who was about to stand his trial
for life or death. 'The accusation imputed to him, that in the
support of certain views, he had engaged in carrying them. on •
-with a degree of furious zeal, with inveterate malignity, and
even with personal hatred. That to indulge those feelings as
an advocate, he had supported acts which must lead to murder
and bloodshed. It imputed to him, in short, the absence of all
those qualities, without which no ounsel could claim or ex-
pect the public confidence, and without which no Gentleman
could be respected or tolerated in society. • Need he say that
such imputations were injurious to his feelings ;—need he say • •
that such imputations were injurious to his private repu-
tation ;—need lie say that such imputations were injurious to -
his proessional character, and calculated to withdraw from him
as a young .man that prospect of honour and distinction to •
which he naturally looked with anxiety? And -what cause
existed for such imputations ? He never was Counsel in the •
cause to which they alluded. He most probably knew less of
the parties concerned in it than the Hon. Member did who
made the charges. Ile was utterly ignorant of the contents of
the papers which had his signature to them, as alluded to in
the debate of the House. He signed the Papers, according to
the practice of the Scotch Courts, for a brother Advocate, with-
out knowing any of their contents. Under these circumstances
he would ask the House with perfect confidence whether it waS"
possible for him to see such imputations affecting MS profes-
sional character, and destroying his char,..•ter as a Gentleman ; '
he would confidently ask, whether he could see such imputa-
tions circulated by the public press without feeling some warmth,
and without being urged to take the most decisive means of
relieving himself from the dishonour. He did not recur to them
in any wanton desire of violating the privileges of the House,
but in the necessary defence of his character. Under these cir-
cumstances, feeling that the whole of these imputations were
made upon a total mis-statement of facts (proceeding, no doubt,
from misconception), he would ask how it could be expected
that he should refrain from contradicting them by means of the --
same channel through which they were disseminated to the
public. Besides the public feeling which must have been ex-
cited against him, in the narrow circle of society iri which he
moved, every one would meet him with a knowledge- of the
charges cast upon his character ; and, unquestiOnably to him,
the most painful feeling of all would be that of seeing in every
, man he met, a friend who mourned, or a political foe who tri-
umphed, in his degradation.' Under all the circumstances of
• the case, be trusted the House would see a reasonable cause for
the irritation under which the breach of their privileges was
committed: As to the warmth of feeling which he had dis- -
played, he thought he should not be required to say much in
its defence when he was addressing English Gentlenien. It
would not be a matter of surprise that a British Counsellor and
a British Gentleman should feel warmth when repelling an un-
just attack upon his character and honour. He desired to ex- -
press his sincere regret that the means he had found it neces-
sary to take for that purpose had placed him in the situation of
having_viokted the privileges of the House of Commons ; and-
- not 'deprecating from personal feelings any consequences which •
might follow, he relied with perfect confidence upon that
House for receiving substantial justice at its hands.—(The
speech was followed by loud and continued cheering.)
- Mr. HoPE was then ordered to withdraw. .
Sir K. WILSON rose to order, amidst loud calls upon Mr.
Courtenay.
- The SPEAKER decided that the Hon. Member was entitled
to speak to a point of srder.
Sir R. WILSON said that he had never leen more shock-xl
• than at hearing the cheers in which Hon. Members opposite
had thought proper to indulge, in approbation of what had •
• .been said at the bar. They were assembled there as Judges.,
• and by such expression of their feeling, Gentlemen rendered
themselves parties in the case at issue. It was impossible to.

ttexpect that impartial justice should be done when such con.
«shirt "was observed. -
Mr. W. COURTENAY moved, " That Mr. Hope having
acknowledged himself to be the author of the said letter, is
guilty ofa breach of the privileges of this House."
Sir F. lURDETT continued to entertain the opinion which
he had always expressed as to the great danger which existed
in this assumption of power by the House of Commons. He
had never yet heard of any thing to do away with the strong
constitutional objections which :he saw .opposed to such acts.
In the present .case he could not see how it was possible to ex-
ercise the power which the House claimed without allowing
that every man in the country was to be subjected to whatever
. another might choose to say- of him in that House without re-
plying to it, or even to the mistakes of those who gave their
debates t.O the public, or still more the most malignant repre-
sentations which persons might think proper to make. lie
begged to ask whether such a power would be allowed to the
Crown as that claimed by Parliament, in cases which it might,
choose to declare breaches of privilege ? But he could not see
how the case now before them was a breach of any part of the
privileges which they claimed. The party stated that a report
of a speech had, appeared which traduced and injured his cha-
racter, and consequently proceeded to declare such a report to
be false. If this was a breach of prix ilege they were suffering them
-to be committed every tiky, and no man was-safe who referred
to any thing that was said or done in Parliament.—(Hear !)--.
f any one were to apply directly to a Member to call him to
.account for any thing which he might have done in the dis.
• charge of his duty, and he brought the matter before the
House, then he confessed he should see a justifiable groutid
interference. The original intention of guarding Pt.enament
with privileges, was to provide them a shield agailest the power
of the Crown in the free discharge of their uuty but not to
-.arm them with a sword against their fellow-subjects. The
power which they claimed was in itself an anomaly ; for they
proceeded to inflict imprisonment, yet they did not presume to
- resort to the minor punishment of fine. The Gentleman who
'bad been before the House saidl that the statements made
against him were untrue. In that case he had a right to
complain of his friends who , !lad prevented inquiry, where
his innocence, and the falsellOed of the charges, might have
been proved. His Honourable and Learned Friend, as lie
thought, had brought forward the affair" in the most unex-
ceptionable, as well as in the most able, manner. It ap-
peared to him, that a breach of privilege in such matters as
these would consist of an intention of committing, or of forcing
others to commit, violence. He did not really think, that there
hid been a breach of the privileges, even such as the House
assumed its privileges to be. The power in question was
such as the law did not allow to the King; and it therefore,
-was most unbecoming. in the House to assume it to itself.—
This consideration was more obvious when it was remem-
bered that some of those who sat in that House were proprie.
tars of their own seats and the nominees of others. Many of
the privileges claimed by that House, he objected to ; and to
no one more than that which gave its Members exemption from
personal arrest. This might be a very proper privilege when
Parliaments were of short duration, and when they sat for
only about forty days ; but at present this privilege was
-nothing more than a protection to the dishonest against the •
payment! of their debts. And yet it was altogether inconsist-
-ent ; for according to the legal provisions, a Member ought not
to Ibe in debt at all; as he was obliged on taking his seat to
swear to the, possession of his qualification in landed pro-
perty, clear of all incumbrance, which' meant virtually that
tie was not in debt. On the whole he should decidedly object
to the exercise of the power claimed, as it now was, by the
House. In thus deciding he did not look at the person, but at
the principle, and the object which the House appeared to
have in view. It followed, therefore, that he should vote
_against any motion personally affecting the Gentleman who
had just left the bar, and he should certainly take the sense of
the House upon such a motion.
Mr. S. WORTLEY agreed with the Hon. Baronet, that the
breach of privilege, if any, had been caused by the fault of the
House itself. It suffered its debates to be reported, and there-
fore ought not to expect that every person commented upon in
-those debates should sit down quietly under imputations
which might be cast upon him. There can be no doubt that the
Hon. and. Learned Gentleman who had been alluded to (Mr.
Abercromby) had brought forward his motion in a fair and
proper manner; but if that Hon. and Learned Member had
been misinformed, it would be unjust to deprive a person re-
•ferred to by the Hon. and Learned Member, of the right to
defend himself. He therefore should also vote with the Hon.
Baronet against any motion having the punishment of Mr.

.Hope for its object.
Mr. CANNING said his opinion on the present subject
might be stated in a very few words. It appeared that the
Reuse had already decided the paragraph in question to be a
breach of privilege. He was not present at the debate on•that
subject, and it was now too late for him to give an opinion upon
, it. The question now before the House was merely whether
the Gentleman who had left the Bar was the individual who had
committed that breach, of privilege He should vote for the
prcaent motion, because it affirmed that proposition ; but he
end not say that he was prepared to concur in any vote which
went to impose any, even the slightest, punishment upon Mr.
Hope. He should vote for the motion, because it embraced
matter of fact.
Mr. COURTENAY said, that as he conceived the present
-motion merely cousequential upon that which had been agreed
to by the House on a former evening, he had not thought it
ueccssary to state what was the ultimate course he intended to
;•--subtnit to the consideration of the House. -As this hail been,
lowever, somewhat inconveniently anticipated, he would, with
the permission of the House, state the nature of the .motion
with which he intended to follow up the present, should it be
agreed to by the House.---(lt was here suggested to the Hon.
and Learned Member that the present motion might be at once
disposed of.l
The SPEAKER then put the question, which was agreed to
without a division.
Mr. COURTENAY resumed. He was glad he could now
-proceed according to the ruleS of the House. He thought that
if ever there was an occasion in which all party feeling should
be subdued, it was the present. Ile disclaimed it himself ; and
he therefore should Rome the symptoms of approbation which
had been shewn on the examination of Mr. Hope merely to
say, that he did not see the propriety of them. When he had
first brought this subject under the consideration of the House,
he conceived that the ulterior disposal of it would depend very
much on the conduct of the Gentleman who was to appear at
the bar. !Id (Mr. C.) was perfectly ready to give the language
of that Gentleman every consideration it deserved. Indeed his
principal object throughout had been to prevent any breach
• of the peace, which it was to be feared would grow out of
-that which now appeared to be mutual misapprehension ; and
he wished to accomplish this object with the least possible
oppression towards the individual concerned. If lie had suc-
ceeded in this, his purpose was fully answered. He trusted
the result of the question would have the effect of smoothing
down much of irritation which had taken place, and would
show that the privileges of that House were essentially neces-
vary to the protection of the people. It appeared that Mr.
Hope had thought it necessary to defend his character against
that which he conceived to be an attack upon it in the speech
of his Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Abercromby.) He (Mr.
• C.) would not advert to the language of either the speech or the
pamphlet- He thought it more prudent to refrain from doing
so ; and he trusted Hon. Members would see the propriety of
that forbearance, and follow his example. He thought, how-
ever, it would be unfair to assume that Mr. Hope intended to
attack the privileges of the House. His object appeared to be
merely to defend hieeeelf. As he (Mr. C.) was perfectly aware
that-there existed a strong feeling upon this subject which did
not generally lead to a sound conclusion, he had not until
that evening stated to any one what was the motion he intended
. to make. He now conceived that every thing necessary to be
done would be done, by the adoption of the- Resolution he'
should have the honour of submitting to the consideration of
. the House. It did not impose any personal punishment, while,
in -his opinion, it maintained the privileges of Parliament. He
therefore moyed a Resolution, " That Mr. Speaker do
*communicate the said resolution to the said Mr. John Hope,
Land inform him that, under .all the circumstances, and Con-
sidering the explanation he has given at the• Bar, thii House
does not feel it ;elf called upon to proceed any further in this
-.matter."
Sir ROBERT WILSON said; that this Resolution would
.not accomplish the object of the Hon and Learned Member.
The substance of the case was, that an Hon. and Learned
Member (Mr. Abercromby) had submitted a Motion to the
House, calling for an Inquiry into the conduct of a Learned
Lord, and in the course of his statement in support of that
...Motion, had spoken that which gave offence to Mr. Hope, who
was himself also, in some measure, accused. Mr. Hope upon
-this took a course of all others most likely --to provoke the
• . Honourable and Learned Member to take another, which
was sufficiently understood. Now, it was really neces-
esary • to protect Members in the discharge of -their Parlia-
-mental"- duty. There 'were many Gentlemen in that House
of great talent and eloquence who did not choose to play the
parts of gladiators, or to fight their way -out of the quarrels
in which they . might be engaged by those who took of-
..fence at their speeches in Parliament. He thought the House
ewes bound ete .prevent any personal consequences taking
place.
Sir R: FERGUSSON said he had no wish to keep up any
irritation which:unfortunately existed ; but the respect he bore
,• to an excellent friend who was absent (Mr. Stuart), compelled
ernim to notice n veragraph -Mr. Hope's pamphlet of a most
libellous nature, reflecting on Mr. S. It was that which in-
troduced the expression, describing Mr. S. as " the heartless
;Ruffian who sought revenge by means (Allis minions, whom lie
ordered to bind the arms of his victim." This assertion re-
. -,4ecting Mr. Stuart, ,he (Sir R..) declared- in • leis place in Par.-

liament, to be one of the most malicious falsehoods that had
ever disgraced the press. Mr. Hope, when he introduced this,
must have been aware that the fact in question had been de-
ified by Mr. Stuart. Ile (Sir R.) had thought it necessary to
notice this, lest an impression should go abroad unfavourable
to a gentleman who was respected by all who knew him.
Mr. BROUGHA:II said no one was more anxious than he
was to find as speedily as possible ;way to terminate these
proceedings, provided that going in that way he could dis-
charge his luty towards the public and the individual con-
cerned. Not that he doubted that the paragraph.in question.
wasess breach of privilege—not that he thought that breach was
of tffe mild nature attributed to it, as it seemed, by some Mem-
bers of the House, and by Mr. Hope himself, who had called
' it a technical breach ; or that he was satisfied with what had
been called the explanation of Mr. Hope. For no one of these
reasons could he think that they were dealing with a case si-
milar to that of a mere report of the debates, or a mere refe-
rence to the debates, or a mere comment upon them. In
either of these cases the slightest expression of apology, it
was well k-nowef, would be ..considered amply sufficient.—
,But, in the present instance, it became• necessary for the
House to inquire- whether more had not been committed
than any thing which could have been in either of the cases he
had mentioned. It appeared that Mr. Hope thought him-
self injured ; unjustly accused ; and under this feeling he sat
down to write his defence. Now he (Mr. brougham) did not
wish nicely to weigh the eXpressions which'a man might make
use of under these circumstances, or too severely to visit Mr.
•tlope's miseenduct ; for it would be squeamishness and affec-
tation to say that he lied not been guilty of misconduct. The
investigation into the whole matter out of which the breach of
privilege arose, had, as yet, only begun. Mr. Hope himself
might be considered as still on his trial : it was therefore pain-
ful to animadvert upon him. But what, in point of fact, had
he done ? Without endeavouring to ascertain the exact de-
gree of Mr. Hope's offence, it was his (Dlr. B.'s) decided opi-
nion, that the offence was committed in no ordinary form ; and
that it was not a technical, but a substantial violation of the
privileges of the House. Wares not a mere complaint of news-
paper report,• it was a direct attack on a Member for that
which he had said in the course of a speech, as remarkable for
its temper as it was for its distinguished ability. There were
many personal attacks in that House, which would be a breach
'of privilege if made out of it ; but the words used in this
"pamphlet were such as no one, even in that House, could re-
peat to a Member. To charge a Member with malignant, un-
just, or even unfair motives, was a breach of the privileges of
that House, yet his Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Abet-
cromby) had been distinctly charged with doing that, of the
unfairness of which he was conscious at the time he did it.
Was this even allowed to be said in that House without a re-
primand ? His Hon. and Learned Friend was charged also with
doing this " to serve the views of his political associates out of
doors." Were persona out of doors to have larger authority
than those in it ? He rootight the House would confound offences
which were 'perfectly diStinct, if they treated this as a mere
illusion. The question, however, was, how to deal with it ?
His Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Courtenay) proposed to
pass it over on account of the explanation, as lie called it, which
had been given at the bar. With every disposition to get out
of the difhcultys lie (Mr. B.) could not admit that Mr. Hope
had at all mitigated his offence. There was but one expression
to be used at the bar for the purpose of softening the consequence
of the displeasure of the House, and that expression had not fal-
len from Mr. Hope. He (Mr. B.) appealed to the experience of
those who were most conversant with the history of that House,
whether it had ever allowed a person who had committed a
breach of privilege, to escape on a mere explanation ? But,
after all, he should like to know, in what part of Mr. Hope's
address the explanation consisted. Mr. Hope had spoken of
his irritated feelings. No man was more .accessible 'to an ap-
peal of this description than lie was.—(A laugh.):—But there
' were two meanings which might be put upon Mr. Ho
'
Hope's let-
ter. It might mean to express irritated feelings, or it might
mean to provoke to a breach of the peace. And
here he (Mr.
B.) would say, that Mr. Hope, whoever was his adviser, had
been badly advised, in not being advised to negative this mean.
ing. He had however- left the bar without having done this.
"As for explanation, he (Mr. B.) had heard none; and with re-
spect to contrition, that had not been even pretended ; and Mr.
Hope had left the House in a situation; with regard to its cha-
racter and honour, which would induce even the Hon. Baronet
for WestminSter (little as he regarded the House), to look
down upon it with compassion. Indeed, in his opinion, the
House would reduce itself to a miserable, contemptible, and
pitiable condition, if it adopted the present Resolution.
Lord BINNING said, that after the digrified and temperate
proposal of his Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Courtenay) lie
had hoped the House was getting near a termination of this un-
leasant discussion ; but after the speech of tile Hon. and
Learned Member who had just sat down, lie thought he should
forfeit his duty as a Member of that House, and his, duty also
to his esteemed and beloved Friend, who had left the Bar, if he
did not offer a few observations on the present question. He
differed in opinion with the Hon. and Learned Member as to
the necessity of severity in the present case. Where that Mouse
acted upon a breach of its privilege, leniency was always de-sirable ; and he thought there was nothing in the case of his
Learned Friend to render it incumbent on the House to do more
than eves contemplated by the present motion. He appealed
to the House, whether they had ever heard a more firm—
(Hear, hear ! from the Opposition)—he would repeat the ex-
pression, (because without the firmness he should not have
valued it) a more firm, a more respectful address than that
'which had been delivered at the bar by his Learned Friend.—
His Learned Friend had stated that he had no wish to violate
the privileges of the House. -
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that in that case he must have
misunderstood Mr. Hope. He (Mr. B.) understood him to say,
that he felt himself compelled to defend his character, even at
the risk of violating the privileges of the House.
Lord BINNING said, it was perfectly true that his Learned
Friend had said this ' • but in another part of his speech, he had
said, that lie had no desire to offend against the Privileges of
the House. His Learned Friend had truly said, that charges
had gone forth against him under which he found it intolerable
to live; charges' affecting his private character, and likely to
affect his professional prospects as a Barrister. Had the dis-
cussion of the subject out of which the business arose been
likely to undergo discussion this Session, his Learned Friend
would have forborne to write the pamphlet in question, and
would hate waited for an Inquiry, the result of which could
not but be most honourable to him. But his Learned Friend
could not allow an impression to remain which it would after-
wards be most difficult 'to remote: The statement of which
his Learned Friend complained was not founded in fact. He
had been charged with conduct as Counsel in a cause; in which,
in fact, he was not, and never had been, Counsel. (lie Lord
Binning) was ready to admit the ability which had been dis-
played in the course of that statement by the Honourable and
Learned Member (Mr. Abercromby); but he 'could not join'
the Member for Winchelsea (Mr. Brougham) in his eulogium
on the temper of the Honourable and Learned Member. It had
been stated that the object of his Learned Friend was to create
' a prejudice against 'an unfortunate Gentleman who was to-be
' tried for his life; whereas the paper alluded to was signed
in January, and the unfortunate duel, in respect of which
Mr. Stuart was tried, did not take place till March. He (Lord
B.) would feel ashamed of his Learned Friend, if he did not
contradict the imputation thus cast upon him, and contradict
it too with indignation. He would here beg leave to Say, that
had the Hon. and Learned Member (Mr. Abercromby), when
he read the paper in question to the House, read the whole of
the words connected with the signatures, even he (Lord It)
though no lawyer, could have informed him of the practice
-which was very common at the Scottish B/r, of one Counsel,
from motives of courtesy, signing the pleadings of another.—
This was the 'case of his Learned Friend, who did not even
read the pleadings he signed ; neither was it necessary for him
to have done so. And when his Learned,Friend found that his
conduct had been misrepresented, and that the misrepresentation
had been sent forth to the world, he was naturally provoked, and
he acted under the immediate feelings of provocation. The cha-
racter of his Learned Friend was as high as that of any man in
that House, and he was sure that the Gentlemen of England
would make every allowance for the wounded feelings of a
person of honour. But his Learned Friend had not to com-
plain merely of the speech of the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber (Mr. Abercromby). He had to feel the weight of autho-
rity which belonged to the Honourable and Learned Member
for Knaresborough (Sir James Mackintosh), who was not less
admired for his splendid talents than he was respected for his
moderation in politics and the amenity of his manners in pri-
vate life. When this great authority was backed against him,
his Learned Friend felt convinced that the whole country
would condemn him, unless he immediately resisted the at-
tack. That Hon. and Learned Member had accused his Learned
Friend of " a furious zeal in the cause of injustice and op-
pression." It had been truly said that, with regard to this
subject, his Learned Friend was yet upon his trial ;- and this
was an additional reason for the House to treat him in the
present case with lenity. It had been said that motives must
not be imputed to Members; but had not motives been imputed
to his Learned Friend under which it would be disgraceful for
him to live ? It might also be observed that his Learned Friend
had been brought to London at a great inconvenience, at consi-
derable losi as regarded his professional pursuits, and at an ex-
pence which, to a professional lawyer, was no trifling considera-
tion. If one Member of that House imputed motives ' o another,
he would be only called to order; and lie therefore trusted, that
the merely repelling of motives, charged without foundation,
would not be visited too severely. The House would not for-
get that this breach of prifilege had been founded upon an-
other breach of privilege, to which his Learned Friend was no
party. He alluded to the publication of the debates of that
House, though he 'did not say that this was a breach o:privi-
lege at which the House ought not to connive. lie ought to

observe that the contracted circle of society, in which his
Learned Friend moved, had been poisoned by these imputa-
tions on his character, which, had it not been for his vindica-
tion, would have destroyed his happiness, his fortune, his
fame, and every thing which could be dear to a young man of
honour and talent. Indeed party ,spirit at Edinburgh ran so
very high, that his Learned I riend could not have lived had he
not repelled the imputations on his character.
Mr. ABERCROMBY assured the House that he did not
rise to offer an opinion on the present question. He merely
wished to state a few facts to the .House ; but he could not do
so without expressing his regret that he should have been the
cause of the time of the House being thus taken up, to the de-
lay of public business.—( Hear, hear, hear !)--He had read Mr.
Hope's pamphlet. He knew nor what had been its effect
upon the world; but, as it was only in that House that
he held himself accountable for his conduct or his language
within it, he had never authorised any one to answer or com-
ment upon if He had now to repeat to the House, to the best
of his recollection, what he had said with respect to the plead-
ings, signed by Mr. Hope and the other Counsel, in the course
of Mr. Stuart's action. He read the plea, and the names of the
Counsel subscribing it, and added, " I don't know how far
these Gentlemen are responsible for this paper. That is a mat-
ter of indifference, as far as regards my argument. It is as Ad-
vocates Depute that I speak of them." At that time he cer-
tainly was not aware of the practice at the Scotch Bar of Gen.
tlemen signing the pleadings of each other. The fact was, that
the paper had been read to him by an individual some weeks
before he made his motion ; his attention was then drawn to
the substance of it rather than to the mode of the signatures. He
denied that it was any part of his argument to shew that Mr.
Hope was Counsel in Borthwick's case. His charge was that
the object of the proceedings in that case was to prejudice
Mr. Stuart on his approaching trial. His motion was made
on the -twenty-fifth of 'June, and on the twentieth, he was
in possession of the Report of Mr. Stuart's Trial. This was a
material circumstance to shew what must have been the course
of his argument when he made the motion. He would now
state, that if he had ever the misfortune in the course of his Par-
liamentary duty to hurt the feelings of another in consequence
of his stating any thing respecting which he had been misin-
formed, he would never have hesitated, if an application were
made to trim, in a proper manner, to bow to correction and to
give the Individual the benefit of every explanation within his
power. Ile assured the House that he had acted in this matter
from a desire to uphold his individual character, consistently
with his duties as a Member of that House. He begged also to
declare that if called upon to remedy any case of injustice ori-
ginating with himself, in a fair, candid, and intelligible man-
ner, he should"with the same readiness apply himself to do so,
as he believed every Member in that House would be disposed
to do.—(Cheering.,
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY expressed his anxious
hope and strong confidence that the same temper would mark
their proceedings in all its parts, as had been evinced at the
outset of it. He was glad he had given way to the Hon. arid
Learned Member (Mr. Abercromby) because he thought that
he had delivered himself in that exemplary tone, in which it must
be the wish of the House that the discussion should be con-
ducted. lie hoped also, that neither the warmth, which had
been thrown into the discussion, by his Noble Friend (Lord.
Binning), nor by the Hon. and Learned Member for Winchel-
sea (Mr. Brougham), would have any tendency to alter the ge-
neral complexion of it. The House had to consider of a ques-
tion of a most anxious and delicate nature, and much, he thought,
of the future management of their privileges, would depend on
the moderation and good sense with which they treated the
present violation of them. He would not waste the time of
the House by dwelling upon that part of the question. He
would admit that there could be no doubt that the case before
them was an undoubted breach of their privileges. But the
publishing of the debates of that House was a breach of their
privileges, but no one, he apprehended, could doubt that, after
the practice had so long prevailed, and had become so essential
to the interests of the country, it would lead to much mis-
chief if the House were to shut its doors, and deny the public
the knowledge of what they did. This, thekefore, being a
breach of privilege, tolerated by the House itself, any breach
growing out of it must be regarded as criminal only in a se-
cond degree. Such a permissive breach must be expected to
lead to inconveniences of the nature of that with which they had
then to deal. It became them, under these circumstances, to look
at this case in a general point of view, and deal with it from
Rs own particular character.. The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man opposite (Mr. Brougham) had admitted that when the
printed statement of the speech of the Hon. Member met the
eye of Mr. Hope, he could not but feel aggrieved. It was to
be borne in mind that Mr. Hope was not Sheriff Depute in the
case that had been alluded to, but the statement was brought
home to the private case of Alexander. Now he would put it
to the candour of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr.
Brougham), or to any Member of that House, whether,,if he
were in Edinburgh when he felt himself called upon to reply
to such an attack as Mr. Hope was admitted to have been sub-
jected to, he would have been able so to conduct his argument
in repelling that attack, as to be free from glancing at the poli-
tical motives of the assailant ? He was, sure that no one would
be able to say that he would act so coolly as to run no risk of
committing a breach of the privileges of that House. It was
agreed, he believed, that the only part of Mr. Hope's defence
in which he was wrong, was, where lie travelled out of the facts
of the case. 11Ir. Hope had stated at the bar, that, so far from
wishing to infringe the, privileges of the House, he balanced
for some time between running the risk of doing so, and leav-
ing his own character at hazard in the world.—(Hear.)—He
said that he was aware of the danger he was in of doin,g so by
the course he felt himself obliged to take ; -but that he was
urged forward by feeling that his character was in jeopardy.
—The strong feelings of the individual were to be taken into
consideration, and the only question under all the circum.
stances- for the House was, what would satisfy the justice and
fitness of this case? He thought that if Mr. Hope were called to
the Bar and the Resolution of the House communicated to him,
tha the had committed a breach of their privileges, but that, under
the circumstances of the case,, the House did not feel itself called
upon to take any ulterior proceedings, although the word ad-
monition did not happen to occur, it would in fact be tante-
mount to an admonition. With a person of Mr. Hope's feel-
ing and delicacy, he was sure it would be felt as such. That
he thought the House would consider to be going far enough,
when they remembered that in the original case Mr. Hope
was no more connected with it than lie was. They would all,
he was sure, lament if they did not close this proceeding with
the same unanimity as they had commenced it. For his own
part, lie confessed he had gone forward in it at the beginning
with that degree of cordiality he had shewn, less on account of
the form, than from a desiie to prevent the matter going to
that extremity, to which, with minds of great delicacy, it might
have gone, and which it was so much desired by all parties to
prevent. He had joined in the general anxiety on that account,
and assented to the form of proceeding proposed, from a desire
to take that course which should bring both parties together
before them with the least possible delay. It was less from any
desire that he felt to inflict a vindictive punishment upon any
of them, than to prevent that extremity which had been appre-
hended. He hoped the House would not think it necessary to
deal in a vindictive punishment on the present occasion, but
that it would end, as it had begun, with unanimity.—(Hear.)
Mr. TIERNEY said that the great object which he had
formerly in view in supporting the first step of this proceeding
being now happily attained, all that he felt any concern in with
regard to the farther progress of it was to see that it should be
consistent with the usages, and becoming the character, of the
House. Viewing it in that light, he could not agree with the
Resolution before the House. If that were the course the
House should resolve upon, he must say that no one could have
a greater triumph than Mr. Hope would have. That such should
be the termination of the affair, he was sure was not the meaning
of the House, and-the proper way, therefore, was to steer the
middle course. He must first say that, listening as he had to the
explanation of Mr. Hope, he had not heard a single word of
apology for what that House had informed him was a breach of
their privileges ; and the impression on his mind from the de-
fence of that Gentleman was certainly not satisfactory. It
had been called an explanation ; but all the answer his Hon.
and Learned Friend could get to sanction such a name was,
that he had had no wish to infringe the privileges of the House,
but that, acting. under irritated feelings, he conceived himself
warranted to risk offending the House by publishing that
letter rather than remain passive. Now he would put it to the
Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Wynn), who fre-
quently, so much to 'his credit, gave the House information
on these subjects, whether this explanation of Mr. Hope
was any thing that could be called an atonement for a
breach of their privileges ? But some said it was a bi,..4s -f
a breach, and that raised an important question. The publi-
cation of the debates in the Newspapers was admitted by all to
be attended with some disadvantages, which, however, by no
means balanced the great advantages which the practice car-
ried along with it. After the length of ,time that it had been
permitted, nothing could be more unfair than to abridge it.
By others it was asked whether they would not have a man
publish any explanation or defence necessary to re-establish
his injured. character ?- God forbid that he should say that a
man's character should be attacked, and he be permitted no means
of defending it because he was not a Member of that House.
But he contended that as it might so it ought to be done, with-
out attacking the person who had been the means of any sup-
posed injury as a Member of that House in discharging his
duty. There were many ways of vindicating character so at-
tacked. One was to petition ; but if the course taken in this case
were to be upheld, there would be an end to inquiry. It was
said that the inquiry relative to'Borthwick was to go on. But
what encouragement had his Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr.
Abercromby) to goon, if the newspapers were to be loaded with
reflections on bins of this nature ? No one, he was sure, would
countenance so extravagant a proposition. But it was said

that a reprimand was conveyed in the course proposed to be
adopted. if the Resolution comprised that the person at the
Bar had satisfied the House, having expressed his contri-
tion, or so on, he should understand how there was a repri-
mand conveyed in 'it. But, merely in the reading of the
Resolution of the House, that a breach of privilege had been
committed, but under the circumstances of the case, without
reciting what these circumstances were, so 'far from being a
reprimand, he contended that it would be a triumph.—(Hear !)
He, for his own part, should decline moving any amendment,
still bearing in his recollection, the manner in which Mr. Hope's
speech had been received.—(Hear!)—Remembering as he did,
that he could not but have heard the shouts of triumph before he
was out of the House, and from some quarters too which created
no little surprise in his mind, he would not even propose an
amendment to insert that Mr. Hope had offended against that
Home. He should content himself with voting against the
motion, unless something were inserted in the resolution of the
nature he had before spoken of. If the House passed that re-
solution as it then stood, it would be shutting their doors for
ever in favour of public delinquents, against. public inquiry.
The case of Borthwick, which he had no hesitation in saying
he considered to be one of most unjustifiable oppression, was
still pending, demanding most serious investigation ; but it
would be impossible to go on with it if persons out of doors
were to be allowed to act as had been done in the preSent case.
Not the youngest man in the House but would be ready to
give advice to a friend about to take up a case of abuse,
to beware how he entangled himself with those who were
protected by the higher powers ; for though a Member of
that House, the House would not stand by him.—(Hear,
hear. hear !) —He would refrain, from a desire not to
push the debate to any length, from giving expression to
any of his personal feelings, of which he had many, on this
question. But as a Member he protested against this pro-
ceeding of the House, as fatal-toits dearest interests. Ile had
always thought that cases of privilege were pushed too far, but
when once brought into the House he supported their privi-
leges. This, however, was a case in which their debates could
not go on, if passed by with impunity, and left as an invitation
to others. Persons acting on Mr. Hope's conception of his
own right conduct, might carry the matter to still greater
lengths, and fatal results would ensue before the House could
intervene—before the morning sun arose. He hoped the House
would see its true interest, and act upon the necessity of amend-
ing this Resolution.—( Hear, hear !) .
Mr. WYNN considered this a breach of the most import-
ant of their privileges, without which they could not perform
their most sacred duties. It appeared to him to strike at the
freedom of speech, by commenting upon their speeches, and
imputing un worthy motives. The direct effect of permitting
such a breach, was to oblige the Members of that House to de-
scend into the arena of public discussion, for their justification
and elucidation. Most fortunately the House tolerated, but
never authorised, the daily breach of their privileges, committed
in the published reports of debates ; for not being authorized,
no Member could be called to account for what he was report-
ed to have said. If such a state of things existed, every Mem-
ber would be obliged to read every Newspaper. There was
no doubt that the reports of their debates were given with sin-
gular accuracy. But from the necessary disadvantages under
which they were taken, and the haste with which they were
put together and printed, generally but a few hours after they
were spoken, it not unfrequently happened that Members were
misrepresented, and sentiments pult into their mouths which
they had not uttered. What a task then it would be to impose
upon each individual Member the necessity of examining every
report of his speeches with a view to make the requisite correc-
tions ? For these reasons it was that the course taken by Mr.
Hope amounted, beyond dispute, to a substantial, real, and
serious, breach of privilege. But then it had received every
extenuation that could possibly be given to it. The individual
had pleaded in palliation at the Bar of the House the infirmities
of his nature,--he had stated to them the irritated feelings un-
der which he acted. He considered that the offence committed
had proceeded from the common infirmities of human nature,
and not from any design to violate the privileges of the House.
Mr. Hope had expressed his regret that he had incurred the
censure of the House.

- Mr. TIERNEY.—WiII you introduce those words into the
Resolution ?—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WYNN saw no objection to such a course.—(llear.)
But he begged to be understood as speaking in the recollection
of the House. There had been cases in which the House had
given the go-by to breaches of privilege; but he thought it
would be disgraceful to them to do so in such a case as this.
If the recollection of the House went along with him, he sa*
no reason why those words should not be inserted.—(Cries of
" Move.")
Mr. CANNING said, he could not for one consent to any
thing being introduced into the Resolution, tending to convey
a reprimand to Mr. Hope, for his conduct on this occasion.
In judging of that conduct, the question for the House he
thought was, whether, under the circumstances of Mr. Hope's
'situation with respect to that House, and taking into considera-
tion his own feelings as described at the bar by himself, he
had done any. thing which could be imputed as a purposed,
intentional violation of their privileges; or whether, in the
performance of that great duty of repelling an unfounded ac-
cusation, and vindicating his injured honour, he had not Un-
knowingly incurred a technical breach of those privileges. It
had been stated by some Gentlemen, as though the question
were entirely and solely between Mr. Hope and that House.—
Undoubtedly if any person out of doors were to call to account
any Honourable Member for language uttered within the
walls of Parliament, as such a practice, might lead to great
mischief, it would be the duty of the House to vindicate its
privileges. But they who argued the question upon that narrow
basis, forgot or overlooked the third party in this and similar
cases, who stood in transit betwixt the two already named—
he meant the Reporting Press ! To this source it was that he
who was injured might sue for redress. He was not going to
open the question of the policy of putting down, if prac-
ticable, this so long tolerated breach of their privileges.—
It had become so engrafted on the system, that it would
not be desirable, although with the advantages which at-
tended the practice, there were still disadvantages. He en-
treated them, before they agreed to reprimand an ardent
young man for a venial fault, such as he had committed,
to put themselves in his situation. He begged of them to
recall to their minds, Mr. Hope's own representation of
his grievance, and his incitements to the course he had taken
—the contracted circle of society in which lie moved, where
every man he met was either a political friend who mourned,
or a politiCal enemy who triumphed, in his degradation.—
He entreated Honourable Members to place themselves in
his situation, and consider how they would conduct their
defence.. For the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Aber-
cromby) lie entertained both in and out of that House more re-
spect than he possessed the power to express. He confessed that
he had much relieved his mind by the candid statement he had
that night made, that he was ignorant of the practice of the
Scotch Bar, of one Barrister signing his name for another pro
forma. He had felt that point so strongly, that had the lion.
and Learned Gentleman not stated that, he should have put a
direct question to him on the subject. Undoubtedly he (Mr.
Canning) had been ignorant, and the oreat majority of the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman's hearers had been ig-
norant of that fact, when the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman read the name of Hope for M'Neal, in which
case he admitted, had Mr. Hope been concerned, there
would have been that basis for all that had . been imputed
to him, for which, as he had not been concerned, there
was no foundation. When the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
read that statement, he certainly considered the reputation of
Mr. Hope to be in jeopardy, and although he was in no way
connected with him, beyond the esteem he felt for his Noble
Relative below him (Lord Binning) he did apply to that Noble
Lord, to know if the matter stood as it then appeared. His
Noble Friend., however, relieved him on that part, by stating
that peculiarity in the practice of the Scotch Bar, of which he
was before ignorant. But in the meantime, this mistake per-
vaded the House, and not only the House, but the Country,
and the morning after the debate, to the extent of more than
ten thousand miles, and an infinitely greater expanse through-
out England and Wales was poisoned against the oppressor
who would basely prejudice a man upon his trial. He
asked was it possible for a man to sit down in contentment
under that aspersion ?—(Hear, hear !)—Would he not take the
readiest course to vindicate himself ? The lion. and Learned
Member (Mr.Abercromby) had told them that lie would readily,
if properly applied to, have corrected the mistake he had fallen
into.' He (Mr. Canning) was sorry that Mr. Hope had not
taken that course ; but the House would be aware that it was
open to the inconvenience of possible delay. An Hon. Mem-
ber might have answered privately that he would not afford the
required remedy, in which case the applicant would be driven
back to the remedy at first open to him. There was also another
mode, it was said, open to this Gentleman, and that was to
address a letter to the Editor of the paper in which the speech
appeared, assuming it to be a false report,' and proceeding to
his vindication. But he asked the House if there was that
difference betwixt such a course and that which had been
adopted, as to justify any extraordinary severity on their part ?
If they permitted the practice of sending forth to the public
the first impression of what passed in that House, they must
be, aware that they incurred the risk of doing what had been
done in the present case, viz. of placing an individual in a si-
tuation intolerable to a man of honour, and from which it was
natural for him to seek to extricate himself. He could not say
that he had understood the speech of Mr. Hope at their Bar in
that sense that some Hon. Members appeared to have taken it.
As it seemed to him, he had begun by stating his regret at
having violated the privileges of the .House. He next stated
the esteem and veneration which he had for those privi-
leges ; and he then stated his own situation, which had led him
to commit the breach in question. He told them that he was at
the time aware that lie was treading upon ground whereon he was

in danger of trenching on the privileges of that House; 3."4
with a frankness which, he hoped, would not be visited th
severity, which belonged to his character, he stated the
owed it to his professional character, and to his individual h°,
nour, not from fear of the consequences, to abstain from
perms
which he conceived, under any circumstances,
torily called upon to do. The question then was not whence
they should treat this Gentleman as one who not estio'""'
qu eat
the probability of violating their privileges and volunw.
offending ; but as one who acknowledged, and was as erotle
as themselves for the maintenance of them, but who, from 0,
situation in which he was placed, his_personal honour and vg
tion in society endangered, after balancing betwixt leoiri,
these interests-to their fate, yet much as he venerated their fee
vileges, and desired not to offend against them, felt called u.erte.
to incur the risk as his only alternative. This was the it
meat they had heard, and he. confessed he saw nothing ''l,o
which, if omitted, would not have left that Gentleman open
obloquy. He had told them plainly that he grieved to 111 ii,
been placed in a situation betwixt their , displeasure and
110
own disgrace, and he hoped the House would not punieh
for not having chosen the latter. Ile (Mr. Canning) h°er
that they would skew him that as he had chosen the easc,ee
course, so also lie had chosen the safer. He trusted they W°„,,
he was perees.,r;
not send him back to Scotland with the stigma of having e 0
misted any other crime than that.—(Hear, hear !) tess
Mr. 4BERCROMBY, in explanation, said that he do,
misunderstood by the Right Honourable Gentleman. Thelie
current to which he had alluded, and which was signed by al
Hope and Mr. M'Neill, had no reference whatever to the t-t-11
of Mr. Stuart ; and was disconnected with, and had no reistri,„
to, the case of Borthwick. He noticed the fact of those Ger;the
men having signed that answer merely in consequence 0,
office they held as Advocates-Depute.
Lord A. HAMILTON said he regretted what had noe'tee
but he could not conceive that the vote now proposed mhei
House was consistent with any opinion that any Member, e-5,
delivered. The sympathy of the Hon. Members seems the
tirely turned to Mr. Hope, and both his Hon. Friend allaitee
privileges of the Heuse were forgotten. The Right Hon. Gel.
tleman (Mr. Canning) called upon every Gentleman to Pr.el
himself in the situation of Mr. Hope. He (Lord A. Re) 'alio
certainly had no affection for that situation ; but he might tie ~
beg them to feel themselves in the situation of elle lion. Meet,
her who had been attacked. The object that the Hon. tie:ea
who first brought this matter before the House profe're
to have in view was to protect Members in the disch3tst
of their duty. This the Resolution eew proposed did '',Oe„
all tend to do. Putting himself in CV situation of Mr- l';13
(at the desire of the Right Honourable Gentleman,) he still COIO
not think him justified in acting as he had done. He Imo,
aske any man to read the letter, and say whether the eserk,
sions used there were bona fide merely a vindication 0,
Hope's character ? When he read there such words as the.r,,a
"It is very possible that the wilful misrepresentation of 0 e#
may have induced you to think yourselves safe in the grl'or:
of that attack," he could not consider them as any think syia
of a menace. There was, perhaps, some impropriety M
ut it
Hon. Friend having hastily taken notice of this letter,
was the duty of the House to prevent the consequences otlg•
lar acts. He should be sorry to preis any thing harsh bey
Mr. Hope, but he thought the suggestion of the Hon. 31_,emor
for Knaresborough the midest that was consistent with We
pearance of propriety. "re
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, the House
_tu
Iy°
easily believe he did not rise to speak on the melse
the question, or to oppose any degree of lenity time I the
alight think proper to shew towards the Gentlemen I"
atter
Bar. He rose merely to make an observation on a,m
personal to himself. In answer to the courteous and frier' ter
though warm appeal of the Noble Member for Boehlre,
(Lord Binning), he had to say that he concurred e°bet..
ly in the statement of his Honourable •Friend (111 - •`' the
cromby). He had read the names affixed to the record Rare
action of Mr. Stuart against Alexander, without being 8• ivg
certainly of the practice of one Member of the Scots Bar s',l6-ed,
for another ; but without laying any stresson the names sign' to
to
both of which were those of Advocates Depute, but inere,,/,
show the relation of that part of the proceedings to th
question. He begged now to add, that the case of 13cfrthot
could be by no means prejudged by any decision on thel!rtbst
matter, and that he thought it necessary that the whole oh
important case should come on its merits before the gusts
(Hear, hear !) ord 11'
Mr. CANNING suggested that the Noble Lord (L--. 0015,
Hamilton) was under a misconception in construing the ere
44 it is very possible that the wilful misrepresentation of u;fidi
may have induced you to think yourselves safe in the gr
of your attack," into any thing in the nature of a ineoa`
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BROUGHAM asked whether the Honourable 311 r
e
(11Ir. Courtenay) acceded to the propositionpfthe Honoo,ele
Member for Knaresborough, or rather of his `Right lion 7"tee
Friend the President of the Board of Controul, to state cod'
Resolution what the real motives of the House were in filleepret
ing no further against Mr. Hope, viz. :—the concern an" t'lly Of
he had expressed ; to which he should not think it unwprealeg-
the House to add the circumstance of an accusation yet Pe,l'heel,
Mr. COURTENAY said, as the Gentleman who had
tihe
brought to the bar had substantially expressed his regrFo 0
(Mr. C.) could have no objection to amend the Resobitiefore
as to include the statement of this fact. He should tberr
do
amend his Resolution to stand thus—" That the Spe3ke west
inform Mr. John Hope that, in coriSideration of his stat.,e,„to
at the bar and of the regret which he had expressed, the I,l'
was content to take no further proceedings in this matter. t the
Mr. BROUGHAM thought it absolutely necessarY„thWa
words, " and under all the circumstances of the case, ,
be inserted after the words, " regret he had expressed.' ”ns
iv
out such words, as he had supported votes against Pers4 vote
inferior or in unprotected situations he could not allow
to be put from the Chair without his protest. lie consto;,cte
in giving his vote, Mr. Hope as a person whose feelinget fee
irritated, and also as a person under an accusation. Paee
these circumstances the House would be surely too just to
any distinction between him and any.other.
weArelrN.,erCyomUaßterTiaiENinAhYis sacti)dn,sidczerrtaatitonilly.,
Tthhoesye,cesirpc;laos„tallai,theil
fact of his being under accusation, formed a peculiar ingre
in case.
Lord A. HAMILTON said (though he was a bad authliiatc
on that subject), that he had not perceived that Mr. 'lope,"
expressed any regret. Unless he had used such a term, it ify
be rather inconvenient to put it on the votes.
Mr. COURTENAY said the Noble Lord might be assloreda
that he should insert no words of that kind for which he
not an authority.
The motion was agreed to. ;dorloc"
Mr. Hope was then called in.—The SPEAKER --en with'
him of the Resolution of the House, and directed him"
draw.

MR. MENZIES. wed 10"
Mr. COURTENAY Moved that Mr. Menzies be
Upon his appearing at the Bar, , g boa
The SPEAKER informed hitn of the course the ir,,_,.°ll;eotsde
taken with regard to him, in consequence of a comPow:,,,h" sP"
on the 9th July of the letter signed 3thzies, ,
peared in The Courier newspaper. owe"
The letter having been handed to Mr. Menzies and ay that
to be his production, he was informed by the SPEI;oI3. e•
that was his opportunity for saying any thing in his de'e-cttit
Mr. MENzrEs began in a low tone of voice by statitt
he was most anxious to assure that Honourable House wa
had always entertained, and still did entertain, a profono,iyea
spect for that Honourable House, and that nothing, ha!,l; t 3
him greater pain than to know that he had done any t""to
the
offend against its privileges. He then- proceeded to sti'sred in
motives by which he had been actuated. Hiving oh„se;Der of
the Courier newspaper the report of a speech of a Neil: coo'
that Honourable House, containing a severe attack on his tot
duct, made, as he conceived, under the erroneous itlosicitp
he had acted on a particular occasion in an official e°Pber
he felt himself called upon to address the Hon. 31°11110
whom it was ascribed. As the Hon. Member had arte( ijoa•
false information, he considered it to be his duty to that.„n
Member and himself to state how false was the inforrna,tive had
had received, and how much he had been deceived. .fleolbe
published that statement in the hopes that the Hon. 015
would in his place state the real facts of the case. In ae,"ijoa•
after lie had so written he received an answer from tha
Member, in which he said, that out of regard for th re Of
leges of Parliament, he ,could not permit himself to gi:ger
explanation on any thing which appeared in a Nensfre'
but he admitted that the report was substantially LA-- th;+-
However much he had regretted the course pursued I.!Yoiled
Hon. Member, he acquiesced in it. He then felt bin-Is:too ;
\Ton to address the Editor of the Newspaper in A(l°,o
her
and he begged to assure that Hon. House that he pa" WOO'
intention than to vindicate his own character before the ,eci
If he had thought any other construction could be Pial'a not
what he wrote, he would not have written it. •lie gatu roe:
but feel that the charges preferred against him in the
were unwarranted, groundicaS, sad false. Considering,„ofeS'
feet they were likely to produce to his prejudice in his aper'c
sional character, he had put that statement in s'tT ilSose
which had been voted a breach of the privileges of the::;-_,. anw;
Commons. He had, in the first instance, written
Learned Gentleman, being convinced that what had coin
was gross and calumnious misrepresentation. Thewtot
to the nyn'eatect
which he had subsequently taken was solely with a
assure the
vindication of his character. He had. now only to arnuet the
House, that in any thing which he had done; he ha_ soy 06;
slightest intention to provoke a breach of the law, /lore. of
that, acting as he had acted, he should commit a bra
e 9
which thel
privileges of that House.
MrusNtVh: e
aCrOdUoRi
e t T
ht
lt sad ft
thehad most
at once to declare, that in consequence of the full and
viater
consistentthesp
courseh a
eeca 1:11:e
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