The Sun.
London, England, 1838-06-27 00:00:00

niversary of the execution of Charles the First by a calves' head dinner
while he was at Cambridge.—(Renewed cries of " Oh, oh !") Whe❑
he recollected the political sentiments to which the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman once adhered and those which he now professed he thought
he had a right to •ear that the zeal of the Hon. and Learned Member
might carry him too far, and this without any intention to cast a slur
upon him —(Renewed cries of " Oh, oh !") The only feeling on his
side of the House was that justice might be done—(" Oh, oh !")—and
for this purpose he expected that some overture would have been made
by the Honourable Gentlemen opposite by which that end could be ac.
eomplished.—(Laughter.)
Mr. PRAED said that whatever the opinions were which he enter.
tained when in the cloisters of Trinity College, Cambridge, and whatever
modifications had since then taken place in those opinions, still he was
not such a fool as to imagine that any opinions he might entertain would
be deemed a matter of the least importance by that House. With re-
spect to the particular fact alleged against him by the Right Hon. Mem.
ber for Lincoln, all he could say was that that Hon. Member had grossly
ill treated_ him by the nature of his attack.—(Cheers.) He would not,
however, suffer himself to be irritated so far by the gross and unfair
character of this attack as to forget what he owed to the Hon. Member
for Lincoln and the orders of that House ; and, therefore, all he would
say was, that he attributed only to loss of memory the gross misstate-
ment into which the Honourable Member for Lincoln had fallen.—
(Cheers.)
Mr. PRYME could not speak as to the fact alluded to by his Hon.
Friend the Member for Lincoln, having no knowledge on the subject, but
he would ask the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury whether lie
had not done this ?—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," " Order, order," " Ques.
tion, question.") He thought that he was speaking to the question
strictly. What he wished to know was, and he might controvert it Übe
could, whether he had not within two months of the time he was first
returned to that House professed opinions adverse to those of a youthful
Tory—opinions which were extremely Whiggish, if they did not amount
to downright Radicalism ?—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") Now, giving the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman every credit for good intentions, it was clear
that he was liable to sudden convictions—to have new new lights break.
ing in upon his mind.
Mr. W. DUNCOMBE rose to order, and submitted that the Hon.
Member for Cambridge was not speaking to the question before the House.
(Cheers.)
The SPEAKER must put it to the discretion of the Hon. Member
for Cambridge himself to determine how far his argument related to the
discussion before the House. At present it seemed to him (the Speaker)
that the Hon. Gentleman was anticipating the debate hereafter to come
on with reference to the nomination of the Committee.—(Hear.)
Mr. PRYME said that if he were out of order he would at once sub-
mit ; but he did not think he had departed from the question under the
consideration of the House. However, he had but one sentence snore
to utter, and that was, that although, giving the Hon. and Learned
Member for Aylesbury credit for the sincerity of the conviction which
influenced the change in his opinions; he thought that Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had shown such a versatility of judgment as ren.
dered him unfit for a duty of this kind.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," and
" Hear, hear.")
Mr. PRAED rose amidst loud cries of " Spoke, spoke," and confu-
sion.—The Hon. Member for Cambridge seems to assume, Sir, that I
am unable to answer his question, and therefore he says I have shown
such a versatility of judgment as renders me incapable of being a good
juror. I beg, however, to give the Hon. Gentleman the same short
answer that I have given to the Honourable Member for Lincoln, and
that answer is, that there is no more truth in what he has stated
than there is in the statement made by the Hon. Member fer Lin-
coln, that in the University of Cambridge I celebrated the anniversary of
the execution of Charles the Martyr by a calves' head dinner,—(Loud
cries of " Spoke, spoke," and " Order, order.")
. .

Mr. BULWER—I give the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury
as flat a contradiction as he has given me.—(Renewed cries of " Order,
order," " Chair, chair.")

Mr. GOULBURN slid not rise in defence of his Hon. Friend, but
merely to protest against the monstrous doctrine that had been laid
down, that because at an antecedent period a man had held other po-
litical opinions than those he now entertained, he was, therefore, in.
capacitated from honourably discharging his public duty.—(Hear,
hear.) Whether his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Ayles-
bury had or had not modified his political opinions since his residence
in Trinity College, Cambridge, was net a question into which they had
any right to inquire; but this he would say, that he never heard his
Hon. and Learned Friend's name mentioned unaccompanied with the
acknowledgment of the high honour by which on every occasion his
conduct was guided, and the talents by which he had gained distinc-
tion, that entitled him to the weight and consideration he enjoyed in
the University to which he belonged, as well as in the councils of the
nation.—(Cheers.)
Mr. E. J. STANLEY said, with respect to the relative numbers his
Noble Friend had never intended to make any alteration, as the num-
bers would still be a majority in favour of the Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site of gto 7. The Honourable Baronet the Member for Tamworth,
had disclaimed anything like party motives in his speech, but for
his (Mr. E. J. Stanley's) part he must say that he never heard a
speech more acrimonious in its tone, or snore directed to the attain-
ment of party objects.—(" Hear, hear," and " Oh, oh.") Imputations
had been cast upon his Right Hon. Friend, Sir H. Vivian, for liberating
Thom, and therefore, as an examination into the facts of the case be-
came necessary, It was only right that the Committee should be so COB-
stituted as to justify their hope that a proper result would be arrived at.
For his own part he thought that his Hon. Friend had exercised a wise
discretion in what lie had done, and he trusted that his Noble Friend
would take the sense of the House upon the subject, as his only object
was the attainment of truth and justice—(Laughter)—without regard
to party feeling or party purposes.—(Renewed laughter, and cries of
"Hear, hear.")
Mr. DARBY rose and attempted to address the House, amid cries of
" Spoke, spoke."
Sir T. TROUBRIDGE rose to order. The Hots. Gentleman might
explain, but he had no right to do more, as he had already spoken in
this debate.

Mr. DARBY—The Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. E. J. Stanley)
had made a reference to some Hon. ➢fember on his (Mr. Darby's) side
of the House, and what he wished to know was, if the Hon. Gentleman
had alluded to him ?

Mr. E. J. STANLEY had alluded not to the Hon. Gentleman, but
to the Hon. Member for Aylesbury.
Mr. DARBY was glad to hear this, and the only observation he had
now to make was, the reason he had withdrawn his name was the terms
in which the Noble Lord opposite had spoken with regard to the parties
to whom he objected.—(Loud cries of "Spoke," " Order," &c.)

Lord J. RUSSELL said that as the Hon. and Learned Member for
Aylesbury had left the House it was not impossible that the matter
would be carried beyond the walls of that House, and to prevent such a
result he felt it necessary to move that the Hon. and Learned Member
for Aylesbury be ordered to attend in his place, and that the Hon.
Member for Lincoln be likewise ordered to remain in his place in order
that they might be assured that no dangerous consequences might
ensue from the words which had pass,d between those two Hon. Gen.
tlemen.— (Hear, hear.)
The motion was agreed to, and the Sergeant at Arms was directed
to obtain the presence of the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury
forthwith.

Mr. HODGES hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would not per.
severe in his motion.— (Hear, hear.)

Mr. WARBURTON said that this discussion showed very clearly
how impossible it was for that House to appoint a fair Committee,.
pecially an Election Committee. He was prepared to give the Motion
of the Right Hon. Baronet a direct negative.

Sir E. KNATCHBULL said that nothing was farther front his
mind, in bringing forward this motion, than either party feelings or
party motives. He could not, after what had passed, consent to the al_
teration proposed by the Noble Lord, and therefore he must take the
sense of the House upon his motion.

After a few words from Sir H. VIVYAN, Mr. T. RICE, and Mr,
HINDUS,

Mr. WARBURTON should divide the Rouge against the motion of
the Right Hon. Baronet.

The House then divided—
For the appointment of the Committee ...... 12.4
Against it
Majority in favour of the Committee

Mr. O'CONNELL hoped that the Honourable Baronet would pos_
pone the appointment of the Committee. Next to believing in Tholn,
there was nothing mere absurd than the appointment of this Committee.
The name of Sir E. Knatehbull was then proposed and agreed to.
Sir EDW. KNATCHBULL then proposed the name of the Earl
of Lincoln. .

Lord 110S\ ICk moved as an amendment that, instead of the Earl of
Lincoln, the name of Sir Thomas D. Acland be substituted.
Sir EDW. KNATCHBULL opposed the amendment, which, if
the Noble Lord persisted in pressing, he should take the sense of the
House upon it.
Sir R. INGLIS thought that it was the rule, as it most undoubtedly
was the practice, that previously to placing an Honourable Member's
name upon a Committee, he should be asked whether or not he was
willing to serve. He wished to ask the Noble Lord if he had taken
this course
whenat ear
art Hon. Member intended
Lord
oi iceKp r:.esaesnwtwell
instanceaware ?; hear.)
to name a Committee it was the rule of the House that every Member
whom he intended to place on the Committee should previously be ap
plied to, to ascertain whether or not he was willing to serve. The case,
however, was different when a Member at one side of the House moved
the appointment of a Committee, and the list was unsatisfactory to the
other side of the House. In that case it was necessary to move the sub_
stitution of names without the Opportunity of consulting. the Honour-
able Member for North Devon, but the Hon. Baronet who had asked
him the question (Sir R. H. Inglis) had himself very properly observed
a few minutes ago, that when an Hon. Member was placed on a Com-
mittee by the vote of the House, it was Isis duty to serve on that Coin-
mittee.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial Benches.)
Mr. GOULBURN felt bound to interpose an observation before the
House divided on this question.—(Hear.) Previously to the House being
called upon to express an opinion upon the fitness or unfitness of the
Earl of Lincoln to serve on this Committee, it was right that it should
have something to go upon. It was right that something should be
stated as grounds of objection to the fitness of the Noble Lord. Under
these circumstances, and considering the charccter borne by that Noble
Lord, he thought it but fair that, before the House was asked to go to a
vote on this question, they should have stated to them some reasons to
show why and in how far the Earl of Lincoln was unfitted to serve on
this Committee.— (Cheers.)

Lord HO WICK did not mean anything to the prejudice of the Noble
Earl, either in thought or in statement, lie appealed to the House
whether it was a fair position to be placed in, that he should be called
upon to state the grounds of his objections to any name which he thought
ought not to be placed on the Committee. They must judge of the con-
stitution of Committees of this kind from their general complexion, and
in selecting a Committee of this kind, they must throw aside that con-
ventional politeness so habitual in the House. What he would pro-
pose was this : let the whole of the list of names itt both sides, with
the exception of the name of the Honourable Baronet himself, a
the mover of the Committee, be cancelled. Let the Hon. Baronet then
consult with his friends, and he did not anticipate that he would find it
difficult to settle wish some Member at this side of the House (the Mi-
nisterial side) upon the constitution of a Committee. He repeated that
if the Hon. Baronet would adopt the course he now suggested, and pro-
pose a fresh list for another day, that his object would be effectuallly
answered in the Nomination of a Committee.

Sir E. KNATCHBULL thought that the Noble Lord ought to ex-
tend to that (the Opposition) side of the House the same courtesy that
that they lr.d been disposed to extend to him.—(Cheers. If
the Noble Lord had, some days back, made his proposition for
some mutual arrangement with rospect to the nomination of the Coin •
mitten, he (Sir Edward Knatchbull) might have been disposed to
concur in it. Eut after what had that night occurred, and after
the objections that had been made to those whom he had
named, he felt that he would not be acting fairly towards them if he
now consented to enter into any such arrangement,—(Cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL should propose that one Member at that, the Mi-
nisterial side of the House, should name seven Members to serve on the
Committee, and that an Hon. Member on the other side should name
seven on his side of the House.—(No, no.)

Mr. W. HARVEY denied for one, that he belonged te any party
with respect to this question. He thought such
proceedings as had
taken place that evening were calculated to degrade the House, and
place them in a very unenviable situation before the country—(Hear,
hear)—when it should be known that On an occasion involving an in-
quiry into facts they could not agree in the nomination Of fifteen gen-
tlemen to whom that honourable and useful task could be confided.—
(Hear, hear.) He equally, however, dissented from the proposition
that to reject one was to reject all. The Hon. Baronet had done him
the honcur to place his name on the Committee, and the Noble Lord had
been pleased to recognise it ; but he certainty had no hopes from an in-
quiry which wa, b; gun in party spirit, and must be conducted in an
unsatisfactory manner, and which was not likely to confer any honour
on the }Louse, either in its commencement or termination.—(Cheers
from the Ministerialists )