The Sun.
London, England, 1836-05-07 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, MAY 7, is3b,

world, so noted for the astuteness of its inhabitants, especially
that class who there carried on commercial affairs. Projects
have been put forth by commercial men for carrying on ma-
nufactares and other commercial speculations by means of
joint-stock companies, which could only be carried on with
success when directed by individual enterprise, and with a
view to individual profit. Coupling these two facts together._
an universal rise in prices of all articles of consumption, and
this tendency not merely to an ordinary kind of specula-
lation, but to the same mad projects which prevailed in the year
18-'s—without feelir, any cause of despondency, or any undue
anxiety, yet he thought those were but acting the part of pru-
dent men who, in time, made use of words of caution from
prudential motives.—( Hear, hear.) There were two circum-
stanc;:s which ought not altogether to escape the notice of the
House. One was a measure which, when first introduced, he
strongly opposed—which he knew was adopted with the single
view, and not perhaps unwisely, of meeting a memorable
commercial crisis—namely the measure which relieved the
country banks from paying their notes above 51. in gold, and
permitting them to exchange their paper for the paper of the
Bank of England.—( Hear, hear.) While he admitted that
supposing a crisis arose, much of the evil of the crisis might be
obviated by giving such permission; yet he always feared that
the measure itself had a tendency to precipitate that crisis.
Therefore, he for one witnessed the adoption of that permis-
sion with some anxiety and some alarm. Now, whether
the principle upon which the joint-stock banks were esta-
blished was perfectly sound or not, he was not prepared to
say ; but it did so happen that coincident with all sorts of
speculation was the multiplication of joint-stock banks
throt'ghout the country. Nothing could be so unjust as any
inquisitorial interference with the private transactions of com-
mercial men ; but he thought as regarded these joint stock
banks, the Legislature had a full right to require that there
should be some general regulation established as to the prin-
ciples upon which those banks should be conducted. Whether
or not the habit of granting accommodation to the partners
of those banks by issues of their own notes was perfectly con-
sistent with the commercial interests of the country, was a
question which might be well deserving of consideration. He
was aware at the same time that what might tend to diminish
his anxiety was the' present state of the foreign exchanges.
Whether or not. they ought to consider the state of foreign
exchanges as a real test of soundness in a time of general com-
mercial confidence and prosperity, whether they acted with
suffislient rapidity, and were an infallible guide, was a point
upon which he was not prepared to pronounce any decisive
opinion. We are now proceeding with a flowing tide and a
favourable wind, and everything appears prosperity and hap-
piness ' • but we should bear in mind that in all times, even
apart from those factitious causes which may be now increa-
sing our prosperity, the commercial history of this country
shows that we are subject to vicissitudes arising from exces-
sive speculation ; and when that period shall arrive—if ever
it does arrive—l am sure that we shall not feel regret that
in a time of general exultation and general quiet, there were
some found amongst us who, not desponding, not in the
least despairing—nay, believing that a great portion of our
prosperity did rest upon stable and solid foundations—yet did,
from prudential considerations, warn the House and the
country that that prosperity might not be permanent, and that
while interspersed with solid causes of prosperity, there might
be others upon which it was not safe to rest.—(Cheers.) He
would not dwell upon this subject, but without advising their
entering into an inquiry of an inquisitorial nature, or which
might interfere with that free agency which was essentially
necessary to the general prosperity of a commercial nation,
yet he thought that it was perfectly consistent with that prin-
ciple that the Legislature should inquire whether the banks of
issue, exercising as they did one of the Royal prerogatives,
were conducted upon principles of safety to the interests of
the country at large.
Mr. POULETT THOMSON thought that caution and
prudence were above all things necessary at the present time,
in order that the existing prosperity of the country might be
maintained, and that we might not see it succeeded by similar
scenes to those that took place in 1825. It was impossible not
to be struck with the spirit of speculation that now existed in
the country; but he believed that there was a great difference
between the present state of things and what took place in
1825. The spirit of speculation was then turned to foreign
adventure of the most extraordinary description ; but now
speculation was directed to home objects ; which if pushed
too far might be very mischievous, though the consequences
might not be quite so mischievous as in 1825 ; but, really, on
turning to any newspaper, or to any price current, and observ-
ing the advertisements of joint stock companies upon every
possible subject, however unfit to be carried on in the present
state of society, any man roust be struck with astonishment at
the fever which raged at this moment for those speculations.
He felt it his duty some time ago to direct a register to be kept,
taking the names merely from the London and a few country
newspapers, of the different joint stock companies, and of the
nominal amount of capital proposed to be embarked in them.
The nominal capital to be raised by subscriptions amounted to
nearly 200,000,0001. and the number of companies was be-
tween 300 and 400. His Right Hon. Friend just now re-
minded him of the speculation in France for making beet-root
sugar; but that was a sound speculation compared to those
mentioned in his list. The first was the British Agricultural
Loan Company, with a capital of 2,100,0001. He had been
furnished with a blank corn note, issued by this company, which
ran in these terms :
'• Exchange, British Agricultural Loan Company.
Ten quarters English wheat. London, 18
No. I promise to deliver on demand, to the
order of ten quarters of - ,wheat,
g I.l74ts—r <4, p`or Eusliel, from the county of
growth of 18 warebouQed on or ----Ig-
tu on which all charges have been paid up to
the 18

201. staticlard value.
For the Governor and Directors of the
•
British Agricultural Loan Company,
" Entered Storekeeper. Secretary."
( Much laughter.) Another company was proposed for sup-
' plying rain-water. Then there was the Patent Steam-paddle
Company with a capital of 30,000/. ; the Safety Cabriolet
Company, capital 100,0001. (laughter)-; the British and
American Intercourse Company, capital 2,000,000/; the
London Whale Fishery Company—( Loud laughter)---capital
600,000/. And then, to show the way these companies were
starting up, for objects either of the most absurd kind, or for
objects which private individuals were perfectly able to ac..
complish, he found the Liverpool British and Foreign Trad-
ing Company, capital 250,000/. His Noble Friend opposite
( Lord Sandon) knew perfectly well, that it was not at all
an unusual thing for an individual in Liverpool to embark
250,000/. as a capital in foreign trade; and there were many
who had a great deal more engaged in that business. Seeing
these things, it appeared to him that the people of this coun-
try, having their minds recalled to notions of prudence and
caution, was a likely means to put a stop to the evils that must
otherwise flow from this state of things. He knew that these
• eompan • ies had not their origin only in London. In 1825
London was the great centre of speculation ; bu he was
afraid that these companies had now their rise in other parts
of the country. The Right Hon. Baronet had referred to a
Liverpool paper. He (Mr. P. Thomson) was afraid that the
place he represented (Manchester) could furnise instances of
schemes for objects which could never be beneficial to any one,
and in which the parties would only be throwing away their
money. The fact was, that the greater part of these compa-
nies were got up by speculators, for the purpose of selling their
shares.—( Hear, hear, hear.) They brought up the shares to
a premium, and then sold them, leaving the unfortunate pur-
chasers who were foolish enough to vest their money in them,
to shift as they could. These speculations ought to be checked,
otherwise great mischief would ensue from the odium which
would be thrown on those joint stock companies that were a
national good. It was well known that most of the great un-
dertakings that had of late years characterised this country had
been achieved by the enterprising spirit of individuals forming
themselves into joint stock companies. Therefore he felt anti.
ous that the good accruing from companies of this description
should not be lost by the discouragement which the setting on
foot of these mad and foolish schemes must ultimately occasion
to joint stock companies of real merit. The Right Hon. Ba-
. ronet had referred to the state of the joint stock banks. He
(Mr. P. Thomson) had seen also with great regret, the ex-
tent to which joint stock banks had sprung up in different
parts of the country. He believed great good bad arisen
from joint stock banks, but the observations he had made
~with regard to other companies were equally applicable to
'many of the joint stock banks that were springing up in
different parts of the country, and the existence q,£ which
could only be attended with great mischief. He hid a pro-
spcetus of what was called the English, Irish, and Scotch
joint stock bank, with a proposed capital of three millions in
England, two millions in Ireland, and two millions in scot.
.land; and which held out the greatest possible advantages to
the parties engaged in it. The shares too were of very small
amount. Indeed on this point he had seen some cos:lpanies
with shares as low as 10/. The great danger Li: evil arising
from speculations of this kind was obvious. But even iu those
joint stock banks which were good, and could conduct their
business properly, and which had an immense amount of ca-
pital laid up, as well as almost ir,e4ltatAstihie credit, there was
he believed a new element Illteedeeed since the last discus-
sions they had had upon this subject which they must not lose
sight of: but which he confessed ho knew not how to correct
except through the prudence and greatest caution of the par-
ties themselves. What he meant was this. Parliament had
been in the habit of considering it their duty to look most
cautiously to banks of issue ; but banks of deposit were not
thought likely to lead to mischiefi end therefore that they did
not require to be rendered subject tin Parliamentary control.
In fact there appeared to be little chance of laying any re-
striction upon their proceedings. He believed that that opi-
nion was correct; but it was subject to this observation, that
Parliament looked for security to the prudence and Milan of
the parties themselves, and to their maneoln# their business
upon what he (Mr. P. Thonuian) co.naiderod to ho alone the
sound principle for ellethiPliAgf a bank of deposit, namely, of
ds'aline'Y with tlip capital of their depositors, not their own, and
not 411(vui0itigi nem the credit which they might enjoy.
Now, a nese element had certainly sprung up ; and he believed
that a great deal was done by these establishments in the way
of discounting their awn 'credit, The bills which came into
them from their customers, wero discounted at a much higher
rate of interest than as compared with what would be charged
in London when passing with the credit of an endorsement by
a joint stock bank ; ancibthin a much larger proportion of those
bills found currency than would be the case under another sys-
tem. To that might be attributed in some degree 110 4r-
cumstances which they now saw exiv,t,il":l4.--koirnetY, high
prices, and the support whiels Wee g,tvxiii. to the spirit of spe_
C111"':,r1 utl‘ "" • i.d 'ls it was with any
714.4 P, ccompan s
e inet4aee'bt 'Wslie, either from the country banks of issue,
or, in tOnctriii, by the B ink of England itself. This, in his
opinion ivas not a safe state of things, M I,4Va tike country
should go on provvfevi4v, ;As Icknxi prteel kept rising,
as low q t.;e Ssl vittextr, flie,ee bill§ seas able to meet his
ersretnell ip SO cog no disturbance would tat: place. Bgt
A • AI

let t1.e.1 a be a fall of prices, and then he believed the penalty
which The country would have to sustain by the encouragement
of till• false system would he very great indeed.--( Hear.)
He h lieved that to a certain extent these banks did great
good but pushed as they were now to so extreme a degree
of co npetition, he was apprehensible that considerable mis-
chief would ensue. He hoped, however, that the prudence
and caution of those parties who had so much to lose, would
prevent the occurrence of mischief. He confessed that he re-
garded, as of much more importance, the system of which he
had been speaking, carried, as it had been, to so great an
extent, sewing to the competition of the joint stock banks.
than the circumstance alluded to by the Right Hon. Baronet
namely, the regulation under the law for making 51. notes the
limit of issues. He thought if any adversity were to arise the
country would then feel the full benefit of that measure.
Mr. MATTHIAS ATT WOOD (who rose with Mr. T.
Attwoed) proceeded to address the House, but the Hon.
Meml)er was nearly ins udible throughout. We only heard
the Hen. Member say that he agreed with the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that a great por-
tion of the prosperity of the country rested upon the firm and
stable basis of its own enterprise and prudence, and that no-
thing could be more dangerous than to check that enterprise
by any false financial system. The only other sentence that
fell from the Hon. Gentleman that reached us was that an
increased amount of exports was no sign whatever of the in-
creased prosperity of the country. It merely showed an in-
crease of its labour and productive power, but increased con-
gumption was the only test of the country having derived any
advantage from it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not
be tempted, by anything that had occurred in the course of
the debate to enter into the general question of the currency;
more especially as the House appeared very anxious for the
termination of the discussion..--( Hear, hear.) He very much
regretted that the Right Honourable Baronet, the Member
for Taraworth, was no longer in his place. The Right
Honourable Baronet had confirmed the few hints which he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had thrown out—not of
alarm and distrust, but of caution and prudence; and it af-
forded him the highest gratification to find that in the
course which he had felt it his duty to pursue, in this part
of his statement, he had been supported by the authority of
the Right Hon. Barouet.—( Hear, hear.) He entirely con-
curred
with the Right Hon. Baronet in his estimate of the ad-
vantage the country would derive from the repeal of the duty
on raw cotton, supposing the state of its revenue admitted of
such a reduction. There was not one word of what had fallen
from the Right Hon. Baronet on this point in which he did
not fully concur; but however desirable he might deem such
a reduction to be, he could not with the amount of surplus he
had that night announced, take upon himself the responsibility
of proposing it. He wished to say one word, in the next
place, with reference to what had fallen from his Hon. Friend,
the Member for Worcester (Mr. Robinson), relative to the
Stamp Act, because he knew that if observations coining from
such a quarter remained uncontradicted, they would obtain a
considerable degree of currency. The Hon. Gentleman
seemed to think that the effect of the various details of the
Bill would be to add greatly to the whole amount of duty
paid. Now, he had brought the fact to a pretty fair test, with
reference to one head of revenue at least, and he begged
his Hon. Friend's attention to the statement he was about
to make, because it bore directly upon his argument. Ile
he held in his hand an account of the whole amount of Stamp
Duty on bills, paid by a very considerable house in the city
of London, for one year; and on the other side, he had a
statement of the exact amount which would have been paid
had the regulations he now proposed been in force. Under
the old Act, the amount was 1,214/. 18s. ; under the new ono
it would have been 1,1961. 10s. Hear, hear.) He
would now entreat the attention of the House to a little per-
sonal matter between his Right Hon. Friend cpposite (Mr.
Goulburn) and himself, which, like all other matters between
them, could only be discussed with mutual good will and
regard. His Right Hon. Friend had adverted to two points :
the one, his intentions in the year 1830 with respect to the
size of Newspapers; and the other, the transactions which had
lately occurred between him (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer) and the members of the Press. He would take each of
these points in its turn. His Right Hon. Friend, he was
quite sure, would not suspect him of converting any official
information that came within his reach to an uncandid purpose,
or of using it in an uncandid manner. When he (the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer) had put into his hand a printed copy
of an intended Act of Parliament, it would have been the very
last thing to enter his mind that it was to be treated as a con-
fidential communication in any shape whatever; more espe-
cially as in framing the Bill he had referred to the Right
Honourable Gentleman's labours on the subject, and to the
Bills which were in progress at the time of .his leaving office.
Unt:l his Right Honourable Friend stated it himself, he could
not have believed that he had altered his mind with respect to
fixing it limitation of the size of the Paper, because the sche-
dule which was annexed to his Right Honourable Friend's
proposed bill, although it did not contain particular provisions
with respect to the Supplement, they were certainly not the
provisions which Mr. Huskisson proposed,
Mr. G OULB URN—Yes they were,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. could not
conceive how that could be; because Mr. Huskisson proposed
no limitation whatever; whereas his Right Hon. Friend's
clause applied to a supplement containing k certain number of
advertisements, and sold at a particular price ; and it con-
tained an enactment specially limiting the size of the paper
itself. With these documents before him, he could not be-
lieve_ that his Right hail s :a:;: eee
embodied in them, until he heard it announced by himself.
'Tile Act-of roz4 unmed the size of the papers to 32 inches
by 20, but Mr. Huskisson removed that restriction, and allowed
Newspspers to be printed on paper of any size. Now, in the
schedule of his Right Hon. Friend, there was a certain re-
striction—not with respect to the contents of the supplements,
but to the size of the sheets on which they were to be printed,
which was specially limited and controlled by the enacting
clause which he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) bad be-
fore hire. After the explanation of his Right Honourable
Friend, he could entertain no doubt of his having abandoned
this intention, and of his having determined not to br;sig
in the Bill in the shape he originally contemplated, The
next point involved a matter of private and. individual
faith, and he therefore entreated the patit...t attention of
the House.---( Hear, hear, hear.) Or a former occasion,
when the petition of the Newspaper ?eoprietors was presented
he took upon himself to expreee ',ne very great surprise he felt
at the course adopted by tiee individuals who had signed it,
because lie had been in communication with these individuals
throughout the whole proceediegs, and because every sugges-
tion upon which he had acted had partially emanated from
himself, and had beers adopted with their knowledge. Now,
an utter denial had been given to thig assertion, and his Right
Hon. Friend had been called upon to repeat that denial in
that House. This being the case, he felt it a duty which he
owed alike to himself and to the House, to give the fullest ex-
planation of the whole transaction ; an explanation which he
trusted the House would admit to be perfectly and entirely
satisfactory. The question was, had he really been in com-
munication with tho parties who had petitioned the House.
Next,aith respect to the superficial measurement of the paper
and the limits he had adopted—lie had adopted them, with
their privity and knowledge. It was in the month of July
last that lie had been first applied to to .receive a deputation
on the part of the London Newspaper Press, stating the then-.
violations of • the law which were constantly faking place,
and requesting immediate protection from the infringe-
ment of their existing rights. Ho wrote in reply to
that request, as he did every other of a similar descrip-
tion, that he should be happy to receive the deputa-
tion at a convenient period, which he named. The paper he
now held in his hand was the paper which was delivered to him
as the authority of the deputation. It was signed on the part
of the Tithes, on the part of the Globe, on the part of the
Standard, or, the part of The Sun, on the part of the Mrrning
Advertiser, 0.1 the part of the Age, on the part of the Dis-
patch, and on the part of the Bell's Weekly 312ssenger. The
deputation stated to him that they represented the newspaper
proprietors of the city of London, and he -so received them.
He gsve them an answer with respect to the then state of the
law, with which it was immaterial to trouble the House; 'end
he developed to that deputation, in July last, the very ;theme
he had now opened for the reduction of thepernr,eent duty,
of which communication he now found a
Per";il note on the
back of the paper. Subsequently the
an of that meet-
ing wrote to see him again, on the parr
or
pro-
prietors of the city of London, of the newspaper!
wards, not singly, but with five saw him repeatedly after-
.,
wae Always admitted to St.'s, rife, for
other gentlemen ; he
for
,kee had made it a rule to
not friends to the entire repeal of the tax,
but thoso who."'re opposed to it. These gentlemen attended
en bown':ng-street, and saw him, always representing that
these 'were the Committee—the same Committee emanating
from the meeting of newspaper proprietors of the city of
London, whose paper he now held in his hand. He held
also in his hand a suggestion which was left with him by
those gentlemen connected with the alteration of the mea-
surement. It was contained in the following resolution :
" Resolved, on the motion of Mr. Bell, seconded by Mr.
Shaw, that a deputation be instructed to take with them
copies of the old and new Bell's Messenger, to present to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer at their next interview, and to
request the Right Honourable Gentleman to extend his pro-
posed limitation of size to the superficial adeneasurement
of those papers." This resolution was carried unanimously,
and signed by the Chairman ; and he was informed by
that Chairman that the original document was signed by
one of the parties representing one of the papers which
had petitioned that House, who now denied, through his
Right Honourable Friend, ever having had any intercourse
with him, and protested against the change he proposed.—
( Chem. ) There might be altogether a mistake in the matter,
these gentlemen might have falsely represented themselves
to hini ; but his Right Honourable Friend, from his habits of
official business, must know that under the circumstances
he could do nothing but believe that those who told him they
represented the press, and that the voucher originally brought
to him, as their authority, signed by the parties interested,
was a voucher which accompanied them throughout the
whole transaction; and therefore lie was justified in stating
that he was acting with their knowledge and privity.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) He would not trouble the House further ; Ise had
felt it necessary to make a full explanation, and he was obliged
to his Right Hon, Fr- d for having afforded him an oppor-
tunity of dekt so. The parties could refer' o their own chair-
nlatk ikutt the members of the deputation who had welted on
him, both of whom would repeat the whole statomeset he bad
now made. He felt it incumbent upon Lira to eater into it ;it
was important to himself, es luieolving it matter of persona
faith and perspeeal, feeling,--C Hear.) With reference le any
statornVO4 OVA had been made elsewhere, he we,-uld only say
that lie should not hare noticed them, bet his Right Hon.
Friend had given him the opperos.
of • s a,sertion
. ...stymecticil, au -
in that Htlllslo, he trusted
dew no more than
duty stating the facts as they
had oc
larsiSi6"-f\rieneers.) sae llimse would see that he had

Mr. GOULBURN was understood to say that the depu-
tation appeared only to have included one of th petitinni:g
partieF.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
tw•o.

Mr. GOULBURN—But I find that the Morning Post and
the Morning Herald are not included in the list enumerated by
my Right Hon. Friend.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Oh no.
They said they were a deputation from the whole London
Press ; only the signatures of the Morning Post and Morning
Herald were ommitted.
Mr. GOULBURN said that, being merely the organ of
the parties whose petition be had, on the occasion referred to,
presented, he could go no further than he had done in repeat-
ing, on their authority, the statement which had been made.
With 'respect to that part of the Right Honourable Gentle-
man's statement which had more immediate reference to
him (Mr. Goulburn), it appeared that the Right
Honourable Gentleman had found the draft of a
Bill prepared for consideration, and had availed himself of
the purport of its enactments to support an argument which
the schedule to the Bill—the only part which he (Mr. Gaul-
Issirn) had felt prepared to support--did not support. The
Right Hon. Gentleman maintained that the schedule did on
the contrary support the argument which he had taken up ;
but if Hon. Members would look at the two enactments, he
(Mr. Goulburn) was satisfied that they would perceive a ma-
terial ditfcrence. What he (Mr. Goulburn) complained of
was that the effect of the use which the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had made of the printed paper, would be to indnce the
House to agree to a proposition for limiting the size, en thn
supposition that the schedule to the Former proposed Bill etn-
braced a similar proposition. A reference to the forme.; mea-
sure would show how fallacious was this view of it. Tide clause
in that Bill ryas a repetition of similar clauses in the Act of
1804, and in Mr. Huskisson's Act, and it Contained these
%
words :—" Newspapers containing politi
ail news, intelli-
gence, occurrences, or remarks thereon, with or without ad-
vertisements—that is, for every sheet, half-sheet, or piece of
paper therein contained, without P.mitation, &c. "—( Hear.)
Now this clearly did not propose any restrictions as to size,
and he thought that it was rattier unfair towards him that the
schedule should have been converted into an argument againt
him. At the same time he acquitted the Hon. Gentleman
personally of any intention to act unfairly; in all probability
he had not been personally aware of the manner in which this
alteration had affected the statement of the nature of the for-
mer measure.
• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER nag quite
sure that he should be acquitted of any intention to produce
the printed Bill in question, for the purpose of dacesving the
House us to the purport of the proposition of the Right Hon.
Gentleman.
Mr. BAINES wished to know whether the Right Hon.
Gentleman meant that the duties on all description of paper
(or, papers of both the two classes) should be reduced one
halt; and whether he meant the discount of 20 per cent. to
apply to the newspaper duty of one penny, as it now did to the
duty of fourpence ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—My rm.
position is to seduce the duty tile three-halfpence, with the other
reduction in discount of 20 per cent.
Mr. D. ROCHE bard the statement of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer with I;iensure, but did not think that a fair al-
lowance was made to Irish newspapers in the proposed redae-
tio:s of stamp dillies.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would go
more fully into the question when the motion of the Hon.
Member for Northampton came before the House, and he
would also enter upon the less contested question, taking an
early opportunity, vvbe.n the subject was brought before a Com-
mittee of the whole House.
Colonel SIBTHORP regretted that the agricultural inte-
rest had not been better attended ta in the financial statement.
With regard to newspapers, be was astonished to hear it ad-
mitted that the power of the law was too weak to enforce its
enactments, and that the sway of the people without should
enforce legislation in that House. The truth was, the Go-
vernment was afraid of the honest press, and wished for un-
stamped newsrapers to play its part.
Mr. BLUME would not limit the relief which might he
afforded by a surplus to any particular class, but still be thought
that in any disposal of it the agricultural interest ought to be
consulted.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
everything consonant with the security of the revenue should
be done for the agricultural interest.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG regretted that no prospect of relief
was held out to the shipping interest. The revenue derived
frcm Marine Insurances was every day dwindling, partly be-
cause it was found more economical to insure in foreign of-
fices, partly because foreigners, who formerly preferred in•
suring with us, had left, and, what was worse and more in-
jurious to a nation greatly dependent on commerce, many
would rather run the hazard than submit to so high a rate of
insurance.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said if the
right of the agricultural interest to claim a portiou of the sur-
plus were shown he would be glad to accord it, but ev'zn the
half of the surplus, being 300,0001., was admitted by the Noble
Member for Buckinghamshire not to amount to a tangilale re-
lief. This remission then would be nothing to unite up a
deficit of five millions.
BISHOPRIC OF DURHAM,
Lord J. RUSSELL, moved the further coradderation oldie
Report of the Bishopric of Durham Bill.
,°,,r. it. iiiL % Uli moved, as an an:eal/new,
coann it I ed.
'4l
Colonel SIBTHORP objected
the introduction of the
subject at so late an hour. that it lug sue___--
Mr. PEASE Objected to toe. 4rcat a centralization of the
juridical powers.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL thought that the objec-
tions to this 811 were wltolly unfounded, inasmuch as no one
cou'd contend that it was fit, to leave in the Bishop of Durham
as well the temporal ;lathe ecclesiastical jurisdiction connected
with that see. The object of the measure was to place the
county of Durham in the same situation as the other counties,
and it was absurd to suppose they were doing snore in the case
of the county of Durham than had already been done with
respect to the County Palatine of Chester, and the Princi-
pality of Wales. For his part, he could not understand what
advantage was to be derived from the recommittal of the Bill,
and he hoped it would be allowed to pass the present stage.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON assured the House that the
inhabitants of the county of Durham were greatly opposed to
the abolition of local courts. These courts had been long of
great advantage to the county; and, although he fully agreed
that the separation of the temporal and ecclesiastical jurisdic-
tion might be beneficial, he still thought that they
would be wrong if they were to deprive the inhabitants
of the county of Durham of an advantage which they had so
long possessed and so highly prized, especially after the dis-
satisfaction which it was well known the change in the princi-
pality of Wales had created. He certainly should support
his Ron. Friend if he persisted in moving there-cornraittal of
the Bill.

Mr. GOULBURN thought, that after what 'had. passed,
the Noble Lord ought to consent that the Bill should be re-
committed ; as, if a change were called .4'.or, that change
should not be effected against the wish tat the inhabitants of
the county.
An HON. MEMBER (whose name he could not learn) ex-
pressed his hope that the Nohla Lord would accede to the
proposition for recommending the Bill. Although he was
desirous of having the local f;ourts preserved, he wished the
jurisdiction of them to bn possessed by the Crown, and not
by the Bishop, beeP.e.so 'he thought their existence of great
importance to the ou•,ty.
Lord J. RUSE ELL said that after what had passed h►
would consent to the Bill being recommitted, but in doing so
he must take 'Leave to deny that •he change which had taken
place in thr, administration of justice in England aid Wales
had been productive of any dissatisfaction whatever.
Thp House then resolved itself into a Committee on the

The Ist and 2d clauses were agreed to.
On the 3d clause, relating to the abolition of local courts,
being put,
Mr. A. TREVOR said that it would be his bounden duty
to give this clause the most determined opposition in his power.
He had presented petitions against it, and he must say that it
was a gross and scandalous act of injustice to deprive men of
their just emoluments, against whom there did not exist even
the pretence of improper conduct. The returns on the tabla
of the House proved the great advantage to the county of Mir`
ham of its local Courts, and he should therefore move that thnis
clause be expunged from the Bill.
Mr. HUME understood that the removal of the rxtsent was
to be followed by the establishment of other local Courts, and
if that was the case, one great objection to the. Bill would be
got rid of.

Mr. PEASE said that if such an unerstanding existed, it
would decidedly obviate the objections Which were generally
entertained against this measure. fherc was no imputation
against those Courts that they did, not administer justice im—
partially, clearly, effectually, and economically, and therefore
it would be unfair to take them away without giving a substi-
tute for them. He, however, was opposed to the principle of
centralisation embodied ID this Bill.
Mr. HARLAND also expressed a hope that the county of
Durham would not be deprived of the benefit of its local
Courts.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that at all events it
could not be contended that the Court of Chancery of Dur-
' ham was not a merely nominal jurisdiction, or that the whole
(4 the expensive machinery of that Court was tot utterly use-
less to the inhabitants of that county. It would be highly in-
jurious that after the abolition of the political jurisdiction of
the Bishop such a large and cumbrous machinery should be
kept up. The legal jurisdiction should be assimilated to that
of other counties; and there was no reason why the same al-
teration should not be made in Durham as was effected, and
usefully, in Chester; the jurisdiction was quite obsolete, anal
ought not to be retained.
After a few words from Mr. P. STEWART, in support of
mWe'na:b.ccurtmolnd,
the motion,
Gofo‘l4-errn•
Colonel SIBTEIORP moved that the Chairman report
;.
THEb ut ,ovn
ot hRe
ssauigdgiefs ttihoen
enter into
the motion.
aidmp by allowing the Court t P 1
promgrr.csAs
°Pleas to remain, bo
wo not press his motion.
Lord J. RUSSZLL intimated
that be should press the
clause as l''. stood to a division.
,r,
..le House then divided, when there appeared—
For the clause ...... ... .
Against it ... ........... 19

11Iajority
The remaining clauses were then agreed to, and the -House
resumed.
NEW WRIT FOR THE CITY OF KILKENNY.
Mr. J. H. TALBOT moved for a new writ for the return
of a Member for the City of Kilkenny, in the room cif.' Richard

S 'Divan, Esq., who 1 al accepted it e ste►cardship of the Clid-
!int Hundreds.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned, at lialf-past One o'Clock, to Mancl:y next.

THE BUDGET.

CUM
DO ENTS REFERRED TO BY THE,
CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER.

OPERATION OF NEW POOR LAWS.
anember Quarter.—Number of Unions formed, 311, in-
cluding 6,676 parishes. Amount of rates brought under
Guardians, 3,363,8791. The greater part of 15 counties.
In 122 Unions, rates on average of three year; amounted to
1,258,867/.
Expenditure of Quarter ending December 31, un-
der old system £314,717
1 Expenditure under new system
54,888
Expenditure, of year—old system
Estimated expenditure—new system 619,553
Reduction 49 per Cent.
:Reduction in Uckfield, Battle, and Medhurst Unions more
than two-thirds. In the Uckfield Unions, containing 16,000
persoto, a few days back only four able-bodied labourers out
of work in the worst winter quarter. Railroads do not affect
as much as snight be cuuceived. London and Birmingham
Company employ 9,000. Value of the labourer increased un-
dor the new system ss. per week.
March Quarter.--Former statements and results confirmed.
The reduction in the worst districts 59 per cent., in the best
20 per cent.

Cockburn.

Welwyn. Sto!le Pos.

Hit chin.

1333-4
1134-5
1835-6 '5BO 498

•
EXCISE—REDUCTION OF ESTABLISHMENT.
Discontinuance pf survey on Brewers and Wine—Tea.
187 Officers rect.l:cd „Salaries, .£1`2,857
Tea permits and suvveys.
Illegal practices.
101,697 dealers in tea '
2,126 dealers in wine Freed from survey.
39,869 brewers

NEW MILLS IN DISTRICT.
Extract from a letter from principal Superintendent in
Lancashire, Jan. 29, 1536:--
62 Cotton.mills
2 Woollen
1 Silk
1 Fla%

2,007 horse-power

66 2,104
Giving employment to 10,000 persons.
In the cotton districts engines are in course of erection of
more than 7,000 horse-power, requiring an addition population
of 90,000 men to work them.

COLLECTION OF
REVENUE
AND TAXES.—SAVING IN
STAMPS .
Forty-four Officers' Salarie=
Expense of Collection.

1834
1835

. £13,758

... 442,645
~.. 434,741

Add one quarter's salaries, five quarters being paid in
latter year
Further saving in prospect by consolidation of dis-
tricts, abolition of discount to proctors, stationers,
&c.

7,904

14,000

20,000

£41,141

.£662,330

Surplus on the year
Proposed Reduction.
Year. To April, 1837.
Paper duties £250,000 £125,000
Government dutiesl:ls,ooo Z
Excise collection... 6,000 5
Post Office treaty 40,000 20,000
Probates (100,0001. credit 3
20,000 20,000
gradually withdrawn) ...
South Sea duties
Newspaper Stamps 200,000 150,000
Increase of paper
Increase of advertisements
Insurances on farmingbuildings 30,000 15,000
Advertisements (Ireland) B,OOO 6,000
Taxes, flies, tax-carts, &c.

£563,000 -
Estimated loss by reduction in the year } X.lsl,oooending April, 1837

PA PER.
Duties exorbitant. Writing paper, 25 per cent. ; printing
paper, 53 to 60 per cent. ; coarse paper, 70 to 200 per cent.
Frauds—Paper selling for 40s. ; real price of duty being paid
565. Classification—No longer possible to distinguish.—
Dchany.

The honest man pays 28s.
The rogue 14s.
Effect on L:terature—Cost of paper on book 3 augmented
not from 50 to eso, but from 100 to 180 per cent, from the loss
on unsold copies.

APIANAC 9.
Ti.• Ify nnl,-nan2ns, lately repearea, a striking instance
of the injurious effects if excessive taxation in crippling the
public demand, and in prevonting the employment of traders,
manufacturers, artizans, and artists. The duty of Is. 3d.
made number smell, sale moderate. No sooner taken off than
upwards of 200 new ones started, in and around London alone.
The demand immense. Of some of them 250,000 copies sold
by the middle of December, and yet the old ones not only
maintain their ground, but Moore's- Almanac is said this year
to have actually doubled its former sales.
CARRIAGES WITH LESS THAN FOUR WHEELS.
,

By the 3d and 4th William IV., cap. 39, certain carriages
with less than four wheels are exempted from duty ; but as con-
siderable inconvenience and hardship have been experienced in
consequence of the complexity and doubtfulness of the torms
of the exemption to all carriages with less than four wheels,
which shall be kept by any person or persons for his or their
use, and not for hire or profit, and drawn by one horse, mare,
gelding, or mule only, and constructed with any materials. and
in any form, the cost and value of which shall not at any time
exceed 15/. ; provided that the carriages shall be marked with
the Christian and surname, or names and places of abode of
the owners in words at length, and in such characters and in
such places as shall be specified in the Act. This may be
attended with a trifling loss of revenue, but will be a great
relief to the public, particularly to tradesmen and farmers, as
it will prevent surcharges and other vexatious proceedings.
DRIVERS OF FLY CARRIAGES.
By the 53d Gco. 111., cap. 93, schedule C, No. 1, inn-
keepers and others licensed to sell wine, &c., are exempted
from tax on the servants who are employed to drive their car-
riages with horses let out to hire in such a manner as that the
post-horse duty is payable. It is intended to extend this
exemption to the drivers of all carriages and flys let out to
hire, whether they belong to persons licensed to sell wine, &c.,
or uot.

The executions since 1829 have been in each year.
1820 107 1824 49 11828 5B 1832...... 54
1821......114 1825 50 1829 74 1833 33
1822 97 1826 57 16,30. 46 1834 34
1823 54 1827. 73 1831. 52 1835 34
229 I :230 I 155

372

The executions in London and Middlesex in seed] year, from

1827 to 1835, have been
1827 - 1830 6 I 1833 • 2
1828 2l 1831
1829 25 1832

New glass Louses in the three counties—two very la r g
ones in London and Manchester.
Estimated surplus £ 835,000
Add Excess of Receipt beyond Estimate

Deduct—Excess of Expelditure beyond Esti-
mate

1,665,247

80,904

Actual Surplus on the sth of April, 1836 1,584,343
From which—Deduct payments on account of
West India Compensation

Surplus

208,035

REDUCTION SINCE 1825.

Treasury £27,421
Exchequer and Paymaster of Civil Services 58,994
War Office, including Military Boards 29,509

Ordnance.. ... „ ..

122,174