The Sun.
London, England, 1814-07-05 00:00:00

PitINCESS OF WALES.

.W:r.hen the Gallery was opened, we found Jr.
VANSITTART nro.ing that the House should re-
solve itself into a Committee on the Documents
upon the table respecting her Royal flightless
the Prinees NV/des.

The question having been put from the Chairs

Lord cAs.rminEmtri observed, that it: in 'tile
Committee it were deemed expedient to make an
anionentation.Jl the Income of the Princess of
Wales, he was empowered:to give the Royal. As-
sent.

Mr. TIERNEt begged leave to put one question
on a point of form; before the Speaker left the
Chair. He doubted whether it was reguler,
without any Message from the Crown', and with-
out any distinct propdsition, for the House to re-
solve itself into the Committee. He did not think
the Paperi upon the table afforded a sufficient
ground for such a proceeding.
Lord CASTLEREAGH, Hot appearing to compre--
bend the- nature of the quetion, replied, that if
the Princess of Wales did not think it fit to ac-
cept the augmentation to be proposed in the Com-
mittee, it woo': be. in the power of his Royal
Ilioineas to rc .6e it.
Mr. TteaNa- repeated his questioe..
thought it weitla:, be irregular for the House to
proceed to the coasideration of this subject with-
out a Message ftom the Crown, or some other
distinct information before it.
The SPEAKRR Sdid, that it was a matter en-
tirely for the afecision of the House,
.whether the
documents presented upon this subject bore upon
the face of them sufficient ground and authority
for the proceeding now suggested. He was rut
aware that a question of this kind had ever before
occurred in the history of Parliament, and of
course, therefore, the Howse would not expect
from him any opinion. No grant of the public
money could be made but by the Royal assent;
the only case that had any resemblance to the.
present was that of the /1?-, per Cent. Duty.
Mr. TIERNEY observed, that all he could learn
from the Speaker was, that this was a new case
upon which the House was to make its own de-:
cision. There was certainly nothing in the papers,
that would raise any money question ; they con-
tained no reference to any grant of money ; all
they amounted to was, an agyeenient between the
Prince and Princess of Wales, to separate in 1800,
and another agreement in 1809, respecting 'an al--
lowance then to be made to the Princess, upon
condition, that if she incurred debts by exceeding
her income, they were to be defrayed by Act of
Parliament. It could not be .said that there had
been any such exceeding since that period: in
short, nothing to authorize this novel 'Mode of
proceeding. The usual mode was for a Message
to be sent down, desiring the House to enable
the Crown to make any addition. He saw no
reason why the Noble Lord shoul.d in this in-
stance, have gone Out of the established practice
which bad been pursued on every occasion when
grants had been made to any branches- of. the
Royal tinily. There were but two Modes in.
which these matters could be regularly discussed,
either by moving an Address to the Crown, or by
bringing a Message front the Crown: The pre-,
cedeut that the Noble Lord was now-about to set,
might be attended with the most mischievous con-.
sequences. If it were a new case a new remedy
must undoubtedly be prOvided.
Lord CASTLEREAGHOb.WrVCCI, that in all cases
wheregrants had been made to the junior brandies
of the Royal Family, the most.usual and scot na-
tural way had been by. Message from the Throae,.
but he did not think the House would judre it ex=
pedient to follow this precedent on all occasions,
where an allowance, under circumstances like.
those of the present case, had already been made:
In cases where the Crown was addressed ,by Par
went, the occupant of the Throne was pot sup-
posed to be• acquainted with the object. Tat.
question had been already raised. in Parlianicut--
the disposition of the I-louse to make an .additional
allowance was well known ; it was not then un-
natural or improper in the Crown to giVe its
assent that the question might be brought under.
the view of the House.

Mr. TIERNEY begged the Noble Lord to inform
him of' what it was in this case that the. Crown
took notice ? It was all, very ell for the Noble
Lord to ay that there was a geueral' feeling hi

• ••• , ir
the }lonia in Law. of an
:vas the fict tine sin's
upon the, onbjet
Withdrawn : Did thiS loc
rence in the tiouSe
.be answered was, Of tvfn
took notice
LOrd CAsTLEit.EAGIi
sessed so much knowledg
'the papers to be laid helot.,
Ship did not see any ob
making a motion on the
the Crown having been gi
of his discretion he wist
posal to the House.
-Mr. Tian-NO replied, t
given to his gliestioh.
beim given ; any Mew her,
a motion ; were
table referred to the Corm
was known ? There ‘Va3
the House relating to any
requested the opinion of t

Lord CASTLEREAGH ret
objection to referring the
thittee of the House.
that Cornniittee was anot
be a question whether; ti
}louse (-Ohl found a ineas
now to be suggeBted.
Mr. C. WYNNE thought
11ml:14-have been for the I

into a Committee on the
Princess of tVales 1-1 i s jai
was to as the I,,Toble Lot.,
founded his Motion ? llc 1

say, on a former occasion,
+vith.the practice of Parih
the best times..

SPIAKER then sta
case was adinittrd io be
was analoas to ordinary
certain Papers, by Royal Ci
upz.n the Tab!!!. It was cc,
-Member to move that those
into consideration ; Imt if
of money, the recommend
necessary. Whether thes
would alford a sufficient hi
tion for big decision, but
larity in refert-ing the Papi
why the. Crown might noi
the contents of papers th:.
laid *won the table. , It wp
in this .case but by its a

proceeding. .•
Mr. TIERN :Y sktbr
down by die Speaker, if the
badany_referenee to a grai

Mr.-Wail-BREAD said, a
incurred the present digi
form, by his. having been a
however, it was lik
Cominittee, though he u
something in the proccedir
tirely respectful to the Prir
the Noble Lord bad the of
Papers; he (Mr. W.) had
that there was ruhr,.•ve, thew
ration,prcun—
r'
nities requisite to so,
~it n!, fact ; the pal
pecuniary arrangeme.
with so little skill, tit,

insinuated, that they

of the Princess ; in au,

he was not. How th
lawyer enough to detc
from authority that noti.
stn.( contemplated in that—
not incurred a shilling of
her expenditure, and had
the times as to be quite ch
or indirectly, on this or
plied for any-additional
ness had come over to tip
of course, of sharing th,—
Husband. Till 1800
have her proper estab_....'
ladies, having an annu;
ently of the 50001. per
quer. Afterwards,
and had every thing to
tore,. house-rent, linen, &
being involved consicierab
for this debt was made in
but no final settlement m
ceval afterwards took tif
was then agreed on tht
that he should pay 49,000
but this sum. included
Pitt had advised should b
charge. It was true, as
stated, that when the
was reduced to 24,0001.
lowed 12,1)00/: to the Print
be recollected; that she b
the embarassments of her
to pros upon tl•te House,
regular Separation was.evet
parties ; no deed of that
been- sled by her Royal;
aoertv'ards, when the ine4
raised to 60,0001. she thot
asking more, on the ,same
comes of Otte Royal Prince
namely, the necessity of
and, the advanced expeuct
life lie concluded by say
cite of fresh debt, mend,
had not
.afrived ; that th
for proposing an addic.iona
Princess had not 'autilorii
either directly or Indirecti]
•• Lord CASTLEREAGUI Said
observations to dialer in EV
but he would.reserve tfq•-11
his \lotimi in the Commit
r. I?.ose, 110 ()hie'
Committek!.

,
e EA K F.ll. 6bierVed,

seta" and reconituendat
hee,: kelt sufficitmtiv
t •

Reciumtwildlticm

a pro•pi-criVe measlire.
Lord CASTLEREAGII sa;
use the term of the litrge7t
melitlatioil in its tullest ext
re6uived itself iutsi a ComIP

)110
:;r0

kiDril r
1 , ‘-'I,STI.IOZE xa-,../ ~.„..,..:- and iibse.rvOi t'''T
l•-,L,',c)f the.st:.,tentents of the Ponm•ahle Gen-
,e"' as to the hic'orne of her Royal Highness,
ilt,,e".""eme. The Honourable Geotleman,
~v\9;eated, that her Royal- Hi,liness hail in
(106",)1" 17,0
i ' 001. a-year, . e\ch.sively of the
•i to'ili,4,e,"'"N to the year ISOO ; but- he had Pea-
i-• "e"e"e, tbat her Royal Highness had no
.4.,,nletinte before that period. Whatever ex-
-0,,. linght, he ineurred went. of course to the
tt,147,(4 the Prince of Wales. AfterwarAs she
,latt in-un-ltouse, and a regular separation took
41.4 e a;',(l.it was then that she first 'mid a separate
bat t , '` was not correct, therefore, to state,
0t',;',.1.1 (4 her income had been deducted On
Nit' 01 the embarrassments of the Prince ;
tlii).,tst. say, ' that considering the poportions
"allot, "'comes; the Prince had made as large
4.4
I ,l'auce as any husband would have offer-
lii),),4l. such eil7eumstances. The Princess
ttp4,.,,ti that income till 1809. He was not
,4 of„1() say a word which might convey any
'ttli —trac'a(Panee in the Princess, yet he mast
ai. at the c Prince had been libe-
la cow . (induct of the
,eatitt hi, I'4; forward to pay her debts,- and in-
c'hiih i; iheoine The sum paid Was 49,000/.,
4,l,'NN;lZ....N.lariy divided between 1800 and
L. qtat pe,, i!sive „n income of 22,0001. per year
11s,:811 ,
al;)(1, with a surplus of 000./. Besides
6raltty.l)-(' le..eeived 32,0004. from, the Droits of
iltiged, 6,t (fir, Whitbread said, it was so ar-
1. Y,pail' not paid). • Thu stnn had been regt.e-
-t , () as
th, 'land , lie could shew.from the papers in
t at' ' The House, therefore, would see,
lkj:Ls:del:i. that unfortunate separation, the Prin-
:4(oe. t,-'li!'eome.of 22,0001. a sum, be would
i°,'114,,,.•5aY, as large in proportion as any man
il°o,/:erer, fe silade to his wife. There was no reason,
rtltia,l °" sitpposing that the financial arrange-
4,rlik.taf e. ott that occasion should be final, or that
qtrarlt should be precluded from exercising
•cesstY,lnore suitable to-the condition of the
, stt c.. ,'"'le had certainly made no application,
iN
ile! Itttiireet, vet there was no cause to he-
'',,ttle 4t the grant' would be. unacceptable. As
iiie,..l)..artlyular sum, it was proposed to raise
',ale he
t• i of her Royal Ifighuess to that point
her vt,,would bait the Prince should die t.-
‘ible
.• '"e separation had been as complete as
the Iteconeiliation seemed equally hopeless
t4io,,..eellags of both parties ; nor was there
)u.gltlitAthlis unfortunate business which could
titan eire„,-- 'eau to any approximation. Under
..stane p. •• ent could not do bet-
re._
.. es, al LIAM ., . .
Is avir‘ilo from all investigation into the
assn r, u feelings of the parties, and act upon
la.att:tirliee almost that the separation which
4,..
e „ur 15 years would last for life ; and.
'Elie4 -"re to the ,Princess that provision
it dtii,‘..vuuld have in the event of the calamity
ose ,
140po, °t the Prince. He should, there-
Illesss --e to raise the income of her Royal
It A;() ;he net sum of 50,0001.. per au-
ii `i fr (41'd be desirable that this sum should
°RI
• a, 0 ~e fund, and not front various
;(1 'to 4:11` that some indemnity should be
be
th ,
btu ~tatteti Prince. His Royal Highness.
1,. A:, cir .„"` not to be liable to the debts
lei 30, be .
(~ 10.
tt, cause the creditors 11;4 not
":11 4,' . ti COnditiol). Ilf an Act of Podia-
Pri,,, • . - akrea ~:rat all Ores should be sent
i t tit three mortths after they
iet..were
~.,,cd. s . enity as a !.q.isban:l was, there-
' for o,:s -.• prote,etion. might
.he ne-
lhets„d, se
~1 - ' the, creditors might, if
. • il'ceouuts within. the
lellbe:,lttiZL:.C.::t'-11,• , - :,..-:ad was going /coin
qt 1" ‘-', b•,-„,e.eii him to stay, as he
ii!.! t
)Pa,rt with. hint yet). He was, indeed,
a lap t'`lnat, though he did not pretend to de-
that st '7' Y',r, that where the parties lived noto-
111 Pavate, the husband
y if. the . and could not be liable,es-
le was a formal deed of separation
,' 111) bet, v , i
'l4 he,„ ' eLL," tncal• The Prince, however,
of the able to make any contract, on ac-
. ; bltt . restrictions of some Acts of Parlia-
Nc.4%
loe had '‘igned a ppee, which, if not
l'eei,,,.(l,'as as solid as any recoied, and which
,t. u..il the 's•knetion of the King, from the
:ney, l'itil reenliCiliatiOn Was hopeless, ' From
din,. I:„wever,, the Prince hadiefrained from
Was li'oliarnent fora pro
4 persecurity,ivinch
e,. vilY to learn was unnecessary.- Now,
A the ,_
income,'toouse should take care to protect
separate rolce
.should propose, therefore, that
cif 011
th °ale of the Princess should be
`vont! e 'C'onsoli,lated Fund, and Parlia-
L d,„, what .. . . . . 14,4 • was just in indemnifying the
q• Per .„I,led, That the net stun of
!ss of wai,,slilia sho„id be granted to the
Fund,
.„,-:,/' tin be paid out of time Cooso-
' 17,0001. a4Pl,4t the separate incomes of
lad, ghoiddibe
watooo per annum, which she
WU ITII READ tbnlidrawn.'.
isisted too tenielQi4llt that the Noble Lord
the Princess vit'o the generosity of the
,s; and lutist lie as
lere to find that tllO part to his eni
her
been disqpointed on lei
splendour to ‘..bieel Prince could not keep
1 4‘ he night reasonably
:ed. An arrangerne ' -..
final at:range/nem ,) it 11a(1 been, made (a
's income, on his t°- Pay his debts and
yet the- p,ele,.. , marriage with the
is ion in !,,,,,Ari,.,'B' had soon to Wit-
;igy part of his esta blish-
as site lived
at
became Carlton-house,
her to spate -- her when she pard the-fate of
income suitable to, .she had a right,iie
ad,- he thought, , her rank. 1
laid t°o -00 much stress
separation, as ic
'use of the term
a woman' "f-herjast rights 1 point
',fluid be remembered that .n
there- was
no instrument which could, even
bur's opitijol!, digest tbe ii„bilitv of
Ille" CI" 1111". es 3 . left CarltOn-
,d every thing to )rovide; nothing
her but the knives -and forks. 'f he
.berefore, must not talk s.o much of
of the Prince.. Reheated arrange-
tecn made for . his benefit ; and
too much to make one for the
w,, he understood, the pi i,cess
a_ Guinea. .When the necessities
--- Mei' income to 12,0001.
" -.• have appeared. iv-
fi i'Alolniondeley, in.
ke it 20,0001. A
The
.
~w. the acts of 11-,
• 0

04'1, lil41) 1 11:
ct,)" 141114 ":
65 e us •
it 7
4it \‘ 4S pi'
see;;){:

the 6,0011. re

the Priticest

.xeived by oe
certuin interests in Greenwich Park,
.I-le
that there, was no desire of unnecessary extrara.r
gatice on her hue was, boWever,:a grea;:.
difference', between the general and spontaneor.s
opinion of the House, of the propriety of adding
to her Royal Highness's income, and itit attempt,
on her part,,tht ough any channel, to obtain such
addition ; which he Would again deny that the
Princess had ever attempted. . This he could say
for himself-; and he wasautkorised to say for the
Princess, that no authority of the sort had been
given at any period since 1799.
Lord CASTLEREAGH intended reflection on
the debts contracted by the Princess : indeed, he
had guarded himself against any thing of that
kind. He never stated the 6,0001. from the droits
as front the Prince of Wales ; but only that what
the Prince paid was 6,0001. more than 22,0001. a
year. Her Royal Highness bad also had resi-
dences furnished by the Crown, and a very consi-
derable outfit for them. It would be unfair to
diminish the credit due to his Royal Highness
for what he had done. dining the course of this
unfortunateseparation. No husband perhaps ever
gave up so large a portion of his income to his
wife. However hopeless might be the prospect
of reconciliation, yet certainly his Royal Highness
had never wished the Princess of W,„alcs to be vi-
sited by any pecuniary inconveniencies.
Mr. WHITBREAD said,., that, according to his
information, 26 or 27,0001.• were paid from the
droits, but the remainder was stopped at th
death of Mr. Pitt.

Mr. 'Figur:EY did not wish to' trespass on the
House ; but he mast say, that he understood the
separation between the. Prince Regent and the
Princess Gf Wales simply as a separation arising
from incompatibility of temper,_ or some such rea-
son, and no farther. He lamented that the cif-
ference bad run to such as extent ; but he should
decline all comments upon it. He offered to the-
Noble Lord his thanks for his achievement. 'All
he had already done was less than thiS, by Which
he had advised his Royal Highness to recom-
mend a suitable -provision for the Princess of
Wales. By this proposition, the yank and dig-
nity of the Princess of \Vales were recognised
by Parliament : and that step happily having,
been taken, be hoped that on the approach-
ing day of Public Thanksgiving, there could be
little doubt that her. Royal Highness would find.
her place in the procession, though not partieu-
lark' near to the Prince Regent, and her place in
the Cathedral : . than which nothing could be
more pleasing to the House and to the Country.—
One word as to the mode of payment.. When he
said that the Princess, if apart, was entitled to
50,0001. a-year, he added, that if he had the ho-
nour of being her adviser, he should advise
her not to burthen the country with so large ti
sum. He should think, perhaps, that 28.000/.
would be what she might be disposed to re-
ceive. But supposing the 50,0001. granted and
accepted, he did not understand the arrange-
ment respecting the Consolidated Fund -oa which
it was proposed to charge it in one sum, as it was
said, for greater convenience ; and in lieu of the
17,0001. and,the 5,009/. a year._ But what, then,
became a ti,. reinalning ;(rum. the fund ?
The Prince of Wales hod 60,00/. a year from it
for his father's and his own life. 7.-The Prince
could not he in want of that skit :,:, except in the
case of tha oceivcd
60,0n0/. per annum, voted to he • e 7; as Prince
of Wales ; but he was otherwise le :;ided for by
the Civil List, &c. He washed to know why this
might not be taken.away altogether, and the public
be relieved of the burthen ? Why not transfer 50 of
the 60,0001. to the Princess ? The Noble Lord
thought the Prince, under present arrangements,
could have no debts : yet it was said he retained
a .SHIII to pay debts. It would appear that the
Prince of Wales made the charge, and that the
Princess was to take all the odium 'of it. But the
Prince had encumbrances. He should never ar-
gue oil that topic. All he would say was, if it
were so,' and there was no fund, " pay all off at
once, and above beard, as had been done for
his Royal Father, and let his Royal Highness
live like the Sovereign of tills great Empire." In
justice to the Princess of Wales he must say, if
site accepted the 50,0001. a-year, that it was not
her charge on the country ; but that it was ne-
cessary from another-sum being 4devoted to pur-
poses unknown to-Parliament.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the credit due be-
longed not to himself, but to a Member whom he
did not then see in his place (Mr. Methuen.) But
if the object had been plainly stated before, he
did not see that any serious tliil culties would have
arisen. With reference to something else that
fell from an Honourable Member, he must say,
that it would be the last attempt he should think
of making to bring parties together, where devo-
tion.niight be interrupted by feelings of the na-
ture alluded to. As to the income mentioned,
the Prince Regent had not. spent a shilling of it
since the Regency. It was received by Commis-
sioners, and regularly assigned to the payment of
debts, and no new debt had or would be charged
upon it.
Mr. TIERNEY asked for no more than to learn
how the sum was appropriated. Still lie had not
heard the amount of the debts ; but he should not
ask it. When so large a sum as 50,0001. ie-year
was voted, it was natural to imply a recognition
of the Princess's rank. He did, not ask for im-
possibilities ; such, perhaps, a reconciliation
might be. All he meant was, that so far as public
appearance: went, the public would be gratified
by seeing these two exalted personages together,
and he did hope that this vote was an earnest of
it. It could not be considered as a condition, or
compromise,•orbribe in lieu of recognition.. He
.was persuaded that the Noble, Lord was incapable
oriffeli an insult to the Princess, and that it .was
not the will of the ~Prince•Regeot. Thee Noble
Lord.had obtained the great object of elevating
her Royal Highness to her proper rank in the
country. He (Mr. T.). had not at all interfered
with religion in what he. had said ; for the pro-
clamation which
.called upon all to rettien-thanks,
. stated, that those Who did not do so, would incur
displeasure (pear !) He.did not mean, that the
Princess musCsit in the same peW•with:the Prince
Regent ; but that, at least, siie might go in the
procession to St. Paul's, and return than4s- to God
under the same roof.

TlLvrarri.v. percinptorily deny any
olijegt,e, noiney in any motion made respecting
her Royal :Highness. He had called for justice,
ire had . cAile4 for mercy, and he called for the
protertionof that Mose, which he had received.
'l'ne honourable Member (Mr. Methuen), had
disclaimed oil authority front the Princess, and
declared that he acted entirely from himself.—
He (Me. Whitbread), had not given the Princess
advice. But she le.td said, " that she should not be
allowed to starve, or to beg her bread ; but that
yet she would not compromise her rights." She
liad now lost nothing of her rank, her station,
her character, her dignity, which, he contended,
were all safe under the protection of. the douse.
The proposed income was far too high, is such
were not the opinion of that tionse and of the
whole Nation—(Hear !) It was matter of consi-
detation whether the Princess should submit to a
refusal to appear at St. Paul's, where the Peers
and Peeresses of the Realin were to assemble.—
If she were to be the only person excluded, he be-
lieved the Country would very, very ill brook it.
Certainly thq Prince Regent and the Princess
might say their prayers together. This was not a
mere question of attending a drawing-room ; it
would ben downright m yocker oldie proclamation if
she were to he the only person excluded from going
to St. Po•trl's to pray for the forgiveness of her
sins, and to offer up her thanks to Heaven in pub-
lic.—The slim proposed was larler than most
A•rattitl lave ventured to suggest. tile haul never
elAzteiovhiattd money in any part he had taken
upoti the subject. He -did not doubt of the dig-
nity and propTiety of hse,r Royal Highness's con-
duct, and that she would call upon proper advisers
respecting what she should do, upon the vote of
Perliamoot which had taken her under its pro-
tection.

Mr. C.A.NNING felt, a great satisfaction in voting
for the proposition, the rather because lie trusted
it would be fin:ll. By the act of that night they
were following up the in:lnifestation. of their sen-
timents as formerly expressed, in a manner that
could not be mistaken. He should have abstain-
ed fr6m sl?eaking,, but fur some observations trout
the Hon. Gentleman opposite,' which leant ra-
ther in favour of her Royal Highness's declining
the grant. He had seen .but One course in this
business, and that was to abstain front. particular
points whereon they could come to no..decision.
if her Royal Highness was advised to object to
the grant, it would seem as-if she looked to some
future discussions ; lie honed, therefore, on all
accounts, that the grant, such as the wisdom of the
House voted it, ..could be. accepted by the Prin-
cess in all its extent. It was for her interest and
her honour to avoid any other construction, than
that she rested implicitly 011,what had passed.
Mr. PONSONEV supported -the motion, but re-
frained front giving any opinion- on the cause
of it. ,

'The Resolution was agreed to unanimously.

PEACE OF IRELAND.

The House %vent into .a Committee on the Bill
to secure r' Peace of Ireland, in which
PALE introduced and 'moved a- new clause
to appont a special or Chivi Magistrate in each of
the Coup es in a E.tate.uf disturDance; .at a.salary
f 7001.: -year; itlso 1t certain, numbcr of petty
consta' frith _handsnuie sa:i4ris, to act under
the C ligistrate, and indepeudent of the other
Afr4l? or the County. The oat,' y
stabl 'ye fire fo-ins furr,;:llefr by Government,
and ise disturbances were .put an end to,
• sucL :ins to be returned to Government and
sold the money arising from the sale to be
adds he funds of the County.

S. Ft.ooo objected to the clause, as he
thor :nth an appointment Of a Chief Magis-
tratt •a degradation of the other Magistrates;
Omit ,in there could not be !Dater hi any coon-
try. thought also the salary was too large.

In answer to a question from Mr.
Ban lid, he had purposely abstained from
utix thing of a temporary nature with the
prey 1, which was tncant to be Permanent.
lie not, therefore, say any. thing on the
subj his lion. Friend's question at present.
Pere . might, .at,no great distance of time,
harp s.,:..;asion to bring some further measure
fore the House, and then he sli'ould be able io.go
into the matter. Certainly Island was not in such
a state as could be wished.

The clause was then agreed to. The report to-
morrow.

COMNIMEE OF SUPPLY-ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.

Mr. WARD said, that in calling the attention of
the Committee to this subject, he,..should.h.ive the
less occasion to trespass on their time, as many of
the sums now to be voted were similar to those
that had been voted last year; some, however,
being more, and others less. Some Gentlemen
seemed to entertain an. idea that •a great reduction
should be made ; but that expectation tra3 pre-
mature, though-a Considerable reduction had cer-
tainly taken place. The reduction was equal:to a
tilillicm smiling, and including the war estimates,
would gftNa 'a reduction of a million and a Lialfs
and this; too, when for half of- the year the".ex-
pence was that of- a complete war estF.hlislr.,..!ent.
For the next quarter the tall'establishment must
Dearly be kept up,. and there was 6:4.0ne-quarter
in which any r.duction of moment could take place..
In the beginning e April 'tb•Allies had entered
Paris, and on the 19th it \vas ascertained that But)•
parte had r abdicated. 'A reduction had then :been
made to the amount of 2000 men by the Master-
General of the Ordnance ; and had these events
taken-place sooner, aHsaving of nearly half-a mil-
lion would have-lieen made. Withresiiect to the
marching hatterieS, a reduction • nad taken place
of one quarter; on the .sappers'and miners, ,one-
third ; on the artillery drivers, one-third, Upon
rough calculation, the•espense- would be re-
duced to an half, exclusive of the reduction of
• the foreign corps: In the corps• of -Engineers no
reductihni.had.been-made, as they had. never beet
kept up to the full exigency of the .Case ; and
it reduced, they could not easily be filled up.
Taking• one •,class with another, •the reduction
would be an half. On one infant service, namely,
tie rocket service, no reduction had taken place.
The How. Gentleman here ‘varmly eillogied Co-
lonel Congreve, •an(t the _utility of the invention,
and read au extract of a letter 'front Colonel
Dixon, stating their great utility on the banks of
the Adour. Besides the reductidus that bad been

t•pecised, it was in contemplation to make a fur-
ther saving, by reductions to .e• au, ttna of
100,000/. With respect to the extraordinary es-
tinuttes, the saving to the public store last year
*mild he upwards of 600,000/. ; and en the
war bad gone on, there would have ii • n a dimi-
nution of charge to the amount of 90,000/. The
establishment at Woolwich was a le wing article
in the expenditure, and amounted to 64,000/. every
part of which could ..ot only he justified hot com-
mended. Under this general head was included the
sum of 60001. for additioual barracks. 1 his might ap-
pear a singular item in a Peace Establisioneot, but
was called for by the necessii'y of the r ise. The
Royal Powder-mills had required 24,0001. in con-
sequence of the explosion list ye ; which would
have been prevented had the trave)ses oven on a
larger scale.; and one beam had bee» thrown over
a traverse ten feet high to the distance of 700 feet.
The rest 'of the expence had arisen from the
change that had taken place to the mode of dry....
in; Gunpowder, where, instead of a tax ii' ti. a
copper pipe, heated by steam win: not employ.-d.
—On the article of ligntera4e, i saytag of.
thirty per cent. had been Made: Since tie year
1808, we had supplied our ..111,-3 with 834
pieces of cannon, 77,000 barrels of gan-poweer,..
162 millions of cartridges, and twelve millions
of flints ; a considerable proportion of wine!' had
been sent laSt year. In the article .of manual- la-
bour, a saving to the amount of 8,0001. had been
made by means of a vertietd saw. The Hon. Gen-
tie,utart concluded his general outline by expresa-
in-g his high sense. .o 1 the merits and 'service; of
the officers employed in the. artillery ; and moved
that the sum of 1,746,017/. should be granted for
the expence of the Ordnance for the year 1814.
Mr. W, SMITH and Mr. BANKES testified their
approbation of the general view that bad been
exhibited by the lion. Gentleman, though the last
named Gentleman thought the peace establish-
ment was larger than either the reason of the thing
or the state of the country could allow. •
Mr. CHARLES WYNNE deprecated the idea of
keeping up a very large military establishment iii
this-country in time of peace ; and after a few ords
further from Mr. CALCHAFT, Mr. W. SMITH, and
Mr. BANKES, the Resolutions were put and carried.
On the motion of Mr. W. SMITH, 10,000/;Vas
voted for the completion of the works at the
Queen's-ferry, on the Frith of Forth, in addition to
10,0001. already raised by private subscription.—
The House then resumed./

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