The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-25 00:00:00

NEW SPANISH TARIFF.

In reply to a question put by Mr. BANKES,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he had no objection to lay
on the table of the House the new Spanish tariff in the
same way as that of 1841.
THIRD READINGS.

The following private Bills were read a third time
and passed:—
Society for the Prosecution of Felons (Distribution of
Funds) Bill.
Taunton Town and Market Improvement Bill.
REPORTS.

The Reports on the following Bills were considered
and agreed to:—
East Anglian Railways (Ely and Huntingdon Rail-
way Extension of Time) Bill.
Edinburgh and Northern Railway (Formation of Slip
Quay and other Works at Granton, Extension of Station
at Edinburgh, Regulation of Perth Stations and Amend-
ment of Acts) Bill.
Torquay Market Bill.
NATIONAL ARBITRATION.

Mr. COBDEN postponed his motion for national
arbitration until Tuesday, the 12th of June.

THE DUTY ON ADVERTISEMENTS'.

Mr. EWART gave notice that on an early day hit
should move for the repeal of advertisement duty.

IRISH SPIRITS.

Mr. REYNOLDS presented a petition from distillers
in Dublin, Drogheda, and other places, praying to be
placed on the same footing with regard to waste and
other matters, as the distillers of England and Scotland.
NEW METROPOLITAN BOROUGH.

Mr. MACGREGOR postponed his motion with
respect to constituting Chelsea and Kensington into a
new borough until the 14th of June.
THE BALLOT.

Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a petition, signed by
7,188 inhabitants of the city of Bristol, in favour of the
ballot, and another, signed by 2,000 inhabitants of
Cheltenham, to the same effect.

Mr. J. WILLIAMS presented a petition from Mac-
clesfield, and another from an individual named Fowler,
residing in Cardigan, to the same effect.
Mr. H. BERKELEY then rose and said that in con-
sequence of the resolution passed last session he had
now the honour of presenting himself to the House to
ask for leave to bring in a Bill to give the
electors of Great Britain and Ireland the protection of
the ballot in the discharge of their solemn and bounden
duty to return fit and proper Members to serve in Par-
liament.—(Hear.) He hoped he should not be told that
the House was surprised at the passing of such a reso-
lution, as such an accusation would be most unjust,
since his motion was on the Votes and Proceedings
of the House for full three months before the motion
had art opportunity of being heard. All the usual no-
tices had been before Hon. Members. There was the
notice which they had on their table every morning
before and after notice had been given. There
was the regular notice which they had a second
time on the Saturday before the week in
which the motion took place ; and thirdly, there was the
printed notice on the day on which the motion was made.
Consequently it was impossible to say that the House
was surprised at such a motion, anti it was impossible to
disturb the decision. In addition, too, to these regu-
lar notices, in consequence of the vexatious counts-out
of the House during the last session, he addressed a
letter to the editor of the Times newspaper, stating his
intention to bring on the question, eve❑ if be made use
of the privilege ot taking a Government night. Nothing.
then, was left undone on his part to secure due
attention to the motion ; and that motion, deferred by
no fanit of his, came on for hearing on the Bth of August
last in a much fuller House than usually transacts the
business of the country at that period of the session—a
House consisting of 171 Members, exclusive of
the Speaker. Now, if at that season them
were Honourable Members not present who were
more intent upon attending to their private pleasures
than discharging their duty to their constituents, the
decision ought not to be disturbed on that ac-
count, otherwise as well might they establish that
the decision ot a quorum of a Committee should
not be binding because some of the Members thought
proper to go to the Derby or the Oaks. How, there-
fore, lion. Members could refuse him leave consistently
to bring in this Bill he could not understand—that was it
they desired to uphold the dignity of the House.—
(Hear, hear.) For his own part he should be
most willing to save the time of the House, and to rest
satisfied by referring to the debate of last session, upon
which his case should rest, and he was content to hear
the opposition of that miserable attempt at argument
which on that occasion was opposed to it. Give him
leave to bring in the Bill—give him leave to
carry out the principle which was conceded last year,
and he would be quite satisfied, but he was told that he
was to be met with an opposition in limine, that the re-
solution of the House was not to be observed, and that
leave was not to be given to bring in the Bill.
The course he intended to pursue was that which had
been followed upon all occasions. He defied those
who were against the ballot to read the debates on
the subject, and not admit that the arguments
that had been adduced both for and against
it were all in its favour. He' would throw himself on
the indulgence of the House, while he endeavoured to pre-
pare for the threatened attack that was to be made against
him, and the fortified position he held on the subject.
There was one particular argument on which the op-
ponents of the ballot founded their case ; it had been
used by the Right Hon. Baronets the Members for
' Tam worth and Ripon, and the Noble Lord the Member
for the city of London—their whole case depended on
the assumption that secret voting was hostile to
the principles of the constitution of the country. He
utterly denied the value of any such argument.
At every general election tens of thousands of electors
were driven to the poll under the screw of
landlords, bankers, solicitors, creditors, and
customers, while a similar number, owing
to the present system, thought it advisable
to pursue a middle course, and either refused to vote or
refused to register.—(Hear, bear.) And it was ridicu-
lous to say in face of the evidence which was before
them, that that was the exception and not the
rule. The Honourable Member for Birmingham
(Mr. Muntz) had stated that at least 1,000 electors
in that town were deterred from giving a conscientious
vote; yet in the face of a multitude of evidence
of that kind the Noble Lord (Lord John Rus-
sell) and those who argued with him, would
persuade the House that this country was in
a primitive state of political innocence. He, however,
thought that the overweening lust for political sway
on the part of the upper classes had rendered nugatory
all powers of resistance by the poor and
middling classes, and reduced them to a state
of political bondage.—(Hear, hear.) As regarded pro-
tective voting, the arguments used were positively worth
nothing, but if they were, they told directly in favour of
his Bill. Give the elector freedom, place him beyond the
reach of intimidation, and then they would have freedom
of discussion, and Oen; the country of the vitiated system
which now existed.—(Hear, hear) He would next en-
deavour to meet the particular arguments which had been
brandished by the opponents to his measure. It was pre-
tended that if they gave electors power to conceal their
votes the electors would be utterly unable to keep their own
counsel. Now, it appeared to him that a man bad a
sufficient reason for holding his tongue when
ruin stared him in the face. But it was said
the British elector had it not in his nature to
keep his own counsel—that oe secret would be
forthcoming—that in fact the British lion must roar, even
though in so doing be should prove himself an ass.
Now, when they attributed that excessive garrulity to
the electors of this country, they seemed to forget that
there are hundreds and thousands of Odd Fellows,
Foresters, and Masons, who could and did keep the
secrets of their charitable orders inviolable. He did
not find Hon. Members who were members of clubs
disclosing their secrets. He would propose to them
a familiar case. Let them suppose some young
military gentleman of Celtic origin and sanguine tem-
perament communicating to his friends out of doors
what passed in his club; but would any gentleman ga
into the streets and tell the secrets of his club? But
discretion, which was said to be the better part of
valour, would prevent disclosures; but not so with the
humble elector. He feared for the loss of his farm, and
of his customers, and for his suffering wife and family.
—(Hear, hear.)—and yet they told him (Mr. H. Ber-
keley) that such a man could not keep the secrets which
they could keep. Depend upon it that where secresy
was the best safety the secret will be kept with even
more than club-like or Masonic fidelity. On the other
hand, he (Mr. H. Berkeley) imposed no secrets on
voters ; he might proclaim how he voted at the poll
or wherever he pleased; but it was for the protection
of the man who had to go through the ordeal that
secresy was invoked. In all cases the ballot would attain
that object. Ho believed the undue influence of people
in high AAUP) and rich in estate, would be NI down

by it, whilst he believed the influence of property and
station, would be diminished not one jot. He new
crave.l permission to eddress One word to those Hon.
Members who were in f4vour of the ballot, but doubted its
:-.tficacy nitnout the extension of the suffrage. There
was no Hon. Member in that House more willing to
extend the suffrage than he was—(Hear, hear)—but he
was prepared to contend that without the extension of
the suffrage the ballot would be perfectly efficacious.
There could be no doubt that any change in our elective
system must be for the better—(Hear, hear)—and they
could give him no proof of the failure of the ballot
where the ballot had been tried. It had been said the
ballot was a failure in America ; he utterly denied the
assertion—(Hear, hear)—nay more, he could state the
it had answered so gloriously in that country bi
the protection of the dearest rights of mankind,
that in the slave-holding states at this moment
they were seeking to abolish the ballot, because
they feared under its influence that the aboli-
tiou of slavery would arrive. (Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Member then read a petition from Bristol very
numerously signed, stating than the ballot had worked
admirably in the United States. No higher eulogium
could be passed on the ballot than did
this petition—it was utterly impossible to do
so. lu America the ballot acted as a shield
to the voter ; but intimidation stood forward and
sought its abrogation, in order that the slave trade
might be perpetuated and tyranny d its work; and
turning to our own country he found that its concession
to the people was denied on the same ground—namelh
that of intimidation. But it' he had a doubt that
the ballot would work well, that doubt would be
at once removed on a comparison between our electoral
system and that of Belgium. In 1830, under the
influence of the French Revolution, a new Belgian
Constitutiou was formed. The qualification to entitle
a person to vote averaged, according to the different
localities, from the payment of 20 to 100 florins. in
1848, however, the Belgians improved their
electoral system ; one universal qualification
of twenty florins paid in direct taxation
amounting to 11. 15s. 2d., being the qualification. Thus
the electoral body was increased from 40,000 to 80,000,
and the system had worked most beneficial for the
welfare of the country. The progress that had been made
under the system was perfectly remarkable. He pointed
to Belgium to show that the ballot would be perfectly
efficacious here—he pointed to it as a practical instance
that the working of the ballot in England must rival
the working of the ballot in Belgium, but it was not
necessary that it should do more than accomplish the
same good purpose it had in Belgium. The Hon. Member
then referred to a work addressed to the Conservatives Of
England by a Conservative, which, as far as we could
understand the Hon. Member, approved of such a pro-
tection being afforded to the voter as the ballot.
The writer then proceeded to state the monstrous in,'
justice that was dune by Election Committees, and
cited the case of the Honourable Member for Dublin,
and the vexatious , proceedings taken in that case'
He had pointed the attention of the House to the
example of Belgium, and having done so, he thought b°
had laid a solid foundation for his case. He was much
struck the other day by reading a speech made by his
Royal Highness Prince Albert during his late visit t°
Lincolnshire. His Royal Highness on that occasion
gave infinite praise to the relations existing between
landlord and tenant in that part of the country, which
he said did not depend upon mere writing, but on
mutual trust and confidence between the
parties. He coo'
fidently believed that the measure he now proposed 1001"
tend to cement the good understanding which ought to
prevail between landlord and tenant, for he believed "
would have a tendency to improve the relationship which
all orders of society ought to bear to each other. Let there
put their trust in the people and they would confide in thew'
He believed that this measure if carried would cause the
rich to be more careful of the interest of the poor--
(Loud cheers)—it would have a tendency to prevent
absenteeism; he believed it would extend the use
the suffrage, and he asked leave to bring in the Bill
because he felt it would cause the privileged orders
society to endeavour to gain that by merit which they
were now trying to gain either by gold or force.
namely, political distinctions—(Cheers)—and, lastly, he
asked for leave to bring in this measure, because be be-
lieved it would tend to uproot terrorism, which was the
foul blot on the escutcheon of the Constitution of the
country.—(Cheers.)
Mr. JOHN WILLIAMS seconded the motion with
great pleasure, fur under the existing system intim.iclaci
Lion and corruption was the rule, and those who Pal°,
it must either give up their case or put forward sole
new argument against the present motion.—(ffear)
He stood there as the representative of a class of traders
who were remarkable for their attachment to the con'
stitution, but even they, while exercising the franchise,.
were compelled either to violate their consciences or
submit to loss.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had slid
fered much in this way himself. He had long considered
it the right of every man of full age to be entitledits
thattn
franchise, and as he never concealed his opinion h
respect, he had suffered much in trade
(Hear, hear.) Some time ago he took an interests in
and
election of a friend of his for Marylehon
nce
his conscience,
and be refused to sacrifice of his
and give his support to the other party, one
best customers directed him to send in his account, add'
throng . _ the
hag that he should never darken his doors any more.
(Hear and a laugh.) So• with respect to one of his
neighbours in Regent-street, whose connexion 'lei
amongst the aristocracy; on the occasion of the same
election, a noble lady called upon him to solicit his vote'
but he had already promised it. Upon bearing which,
she said, " Oh, you tradespeople ought to oblige your
customers, and if you do not vote fur us, I will go to the
Duchess of Su-and-so, Lady So-and-so, and the 1110;
uourable Mrs. So-and-so, and get them to Iv't";
and
draw their custom." That was a simple
OW
re
0,
true illustration of the operation of the present
end it was therefore Welt time that some change we
ed
effected.—(itear, hear.) The Hon. Member conclude
by seconhing the motion.
ale!
Mr. GRAN FLEY BERKELEY gave his cot
froe
adhesion to the measure. He read several letters
0,
tenant-farmers and others among his constituents, c 0 m,
plaining of the influence exercised upon electors by leuout
iords, and stating that they would rather be wit' °u n
se
the franchise than with it, and only allowed to exerr,co
it as they did at the present moment. Ye,,
tenant •farmer had had his farm taken from. hi"'
which he had held under Lord Fitzhardinge for the
wards of thirty years, and who did not even vote 11640
last election. The Honourable Member then
read several other letters from electors, auew,
rai
m Wiwi
g the extent to which treating and i
dation was resorted to during the last election.
~ps.
Hoe. Friend, the Member ,for Manchester (Mr. 311'"ie
Gibson), might be compared to a political Joseph,t_ hi
had been obliged to flee from the Treasury beneuer.)
order to save his political virtue.—(Great
He was of opinion that shortening the duration of -!-,fgs,
liaments, without the ballot, would be value
Indeed, instead of having a beneficial effect o
would place greater power in the hands of .ree
and other persons of influence. He should o
curious to see how those on the Government beech
4
would vote on the question. In 1842 the
gentlemen voted for the ballot:—Colonel Anson,
Bellew, Captain Berkeley, a relative of his own; she
Hon. George Byng, Admiral,Dundas—(Hear, heell)co
Sir George Grey—(Cheers and laughter)—Lord
Hill—(Cheers and laughter)—the Hon. Mr. Macs re
Mr. Fox Maule—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—Mr. Pea,
ker—(Hear„ hear)—Mr. Ponsonby, Mr. RedinE,
Mr. Sheil—(Hear, hear)—Sir William Somerville of.
(Laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear")—Mr.
nell—(Cheers and continued laughter)—Mr. Ward, •"er.)
Buller, and Mr. Gibson Craig.—(Cheers and laught oie
He was curious to know how three Gentlemen Wee,.
vote on the present occasion—how far they would o,o'o.
tarn their former protestations on the present occee/she
—(Hear, hear.) He trusted the House would se,e
necesity of affording them the protection of the bah° ley
Captain BERKELEY, who rose amidst loud 5,4
of " Hear," entered into a defence of the conduct of %Pi,
Fitzhardinge. He denied that the charges made billet
relative against the Noble Lord were true. He hed she
interfered with the troop of Yeomanry with which& dip
[lon. Gentleman was connected, and he had net of
missed the tenant-farmer, named by him, on account
his political opinions, but on account of a dispute who he
unconnected with political matters ; besides whiee_.ia
had been convicted of lopping wood. He felatnddeeLP;eis
in addressing the House on these subj.
that it was not a fit arena for their
hear)—but he could not allow the
absenoe without de
Noble Lord to be attacked in ho
s far from that Noble
d characteres subjects,
si° n
(oElf etbr;
fending it.—(Hear,
hear)badiet, he stated in one of his
Lord being opposed to the
speeches that he had derived the greatest pleasure frothers in favour of the ballot.'"
the speeches of his brothers tn
(Divide, divide.)
red
J. FOX
„rose, amidst renewed cries ef
Heladr.he Hedis saidosed hescarcely.expee_,
to dismiss, in such
"Divide" and
summary, and, he might add, Contemptuous a manner_es
proposition of such importance, and which had alreaet
a propos Witt.
thaNtirtkieWl.l.ouse would
received the sanction of Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) Ise
respect to the motion, he confessed he felt some difEce'
liee
in giving his support to it for various reasons ; the
of which was, that this, a question of organic refooh
was brought forward separately, whereas, in his opinloo,
all such reforms ought to be carried by a judicious tee
bination of organic changes.—(Hear, hear.) lie felt of
luctance, also, because, with the present distributionild
the suffrage, the ballot might lead to wholesale, ineteht
of retail corruption.—(Opposition cheers.) There to,
to be a re arrangement of electoral districts, by 131 d ee
of which the votes would be more eual distribute ;.1-
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") This principle was red
nised even by the Reform Bill, when it was 1)11 to
that the maximum number of voters requirethree
send a Member should not be less then feis 0
hundred.—(Cheers.) Another reason why bee, hal'
difficulty on the question was a conviction that le :sag
lot by itself would widen the difference already had
between those who now have the vote and those who eat
no vote, who had been called, and he thought wee"
justly, the slave-cless, because they were excludedrbeen)
all direct participation in political rights.—al'ehl to be
He felt, therefore, strongly, that the ballot
accompanied by a large extension of the stll2,lll,,ttetlet:
(Hear, hear.) Another reason for his voting '1"
nor Pr°Pe)
was toe holing that secrecy was neither ae: cheers
•)
of discharging this duty.—(Oppositto we.
But the reason why secrecy was had recourseax of
that those who cheered would not allow theer',they
the right fairly and impartially, and, thereforthe or•
were driven to the conclusion that itevstast,s'ettnsergie of the
cumstances, essential to the prop
duty, that it should be accompanied. hyr„Twe hich
(Counter cheers.) With regard to the Bill sin 01:!:
is
Honourable Member sought to introduce, 110, the 0 L'at
tors, but also in justice to the character d 501
opinion not merely required by the
sta e
__it was
admittedrelations that corruption of
the Memberstionexistoedf thathot the
a..
House. ucl die
grace of that corruption was not equ itY
co blame. tk

(Hear, hear.) Corruption implied two parties, and the
corrupter was a greater criminal than the corrupted.—
(Cheers.) They required such a Bill in order to enable
the voter in that capacity to discharge his duty freely
and fearlessly. They required it no less for the benefit
of Members of that House. Was it right that a young
man of family or station who possessed an honest desire
to devote himself to the service of his country, who
looked to a seat in that House, through that to the at-
tainment of office—and through that again to the achieve-
ment of lofty and generous aspirations—was it right or
fit that such a young man must make his first step
in the dirty path of corruption ?—(Cheers) Was it
right or fit that if he did not contaminate his own hand
with base bribes, he must corrupt the electors through
the means of agents ?—(Hear.) Was it, he repeated,
right or fit, in a country like this, such a step should
be necessary—not, as the poet said, "to wade
through slaughter to a throne," but through corruption
to the Legislature?—(Cheers.) It was not necessary
to adduce any details as to the existence and extent of
that corruption; the Committees and the Blue Book.,
issued last session, showed that the pay meet for seats in
that House was common. Some of those who thus at-
tained them might not be aware of the exact manner in
Which the sums were paid, but they could not be un-
aware of the large amounts placed in the bankers for
the purpose; and, if they were disposed, they could
easily ascertain how they were applied. He wished that
Ron. Members could realise to their own minds the
Mischievous way in which this corrupt system acted. A
Young man, with whom he was acquainted, possessing
great talents, and of a station which justified him in
looking to a seat in that House, was desirous of being
returned. He was nominated for a borough, but the
kitties of profligacy and corruption he had to witness
had so disgusted him that he had declared his
firm, determination never again to enter public life.—
lA laugh.) That might seem a morbid feeling,
but some such feeling must have been exhibited by every
ingenuous mind at first entering upon public life and
coming into contact with such scenes.—(Hear, hear.)
Then when they came to trace the stream of corruption
downwards among the people, they would find that its
continuous operation from year to year undermined the
Morals and the honesty of the nation. Many a man had
broken down by first taking a bribe at an election. Many
a man had cause to rue the day when the tempter first
canto to his door.—(Loud cries of " Hear.") One of
our poets—Crabbe—had powerfully described the effect
of such temptation on a single family, and the hopeless
ruin which followed, and such cases were to be found in
tens, in hundreds, and in thousands, all over the coun-
try,—(Cheers.) If, then, they desired to strengthen
the virtue of the working classes, and to give them
anY confidence in the virtuous professions of that
Rouse, they would take vigorous measures to arrest
the flow of this stream of corruption. The Bill pro-
Posed would be more successful in doing this than
Many other of the popular measures of the day. Thoy
Might establish ragged schools, national schools, and
Church schools, but while Parliament itself taught the
Public the great lesson, that corruption was the way to
Power, all educative efforts would be neutralised.—
(Cheers.) Let the blame be laid on the right shoulders;
in future, let them not visit with condemnation the
bribed alone, but the wealthy classes who bribed. He
had seen the operation of this system of corruption, and
he confidently said that if the rich would abstain from
bribery, the constituency would be pure.—(Hear, hear.)
Re had known places in which the elections were in the
first instance blameless in this respect, gradually cor-
ruPted, until the seats were notoriously bougnt and sold.
--.(Hear, hear.) He had in his own experience an ex-
autple,—(A laugh.) The borough he represented was
a hive of industry, with a large number of voters; its
Only aristocracy belonged to labour.—(Hear, hear.) In
that borough his election had not cost him one shilling
(Hear, hear)—and he was not known to one person in
it before he went there—(A laugh)—personally, he
,_lneant.—(Hear, hear.) That was the way in which
Members ought to be returned. They ought to appeal
to the higher faculties of the voters, to their minds, and
not their sordid and selfish instinct.—(Hear, hear.) He
asked if the gentlemen of England were satisfied that
any class should regard them as tempters to crime, and
Corrupters of virtue? Was that a noble or proud posi-
tion for the descendants of the Normans to occupy? He
hoped not, and that they would determine to remove this
seuarge, by acting differently. America had been referred
*0 as an example of the uselessness of the ballot. It was
said that secrecy was there not required. He believed
that would be the case here also in twenty-five years
from the establishment of the ballot. In that time the
Wealthy classes would cease to entertain the desire to
tamper with the political honesty of the poorer classes,
and learn that they had no more right to interfere with
their selection of a candidate than of a wife or servant or
a religion; they would abandon it altogether as not with-
in their province.—(Hear, hear.) But with respect to
America, the Americans must surely be allowed to be
the best judges of what was best for their own interest,
and, tested in this way, the system of open voting did not
!teem to stand so high as was alleged. The ballot began
in only a few states at first, and had now spread to
others, which was irreconcileable with the theory ofthose
who said secrecy was unpop tiler in America.—(Hear,
hear.) Under the present system in this country, he
would say that whatever that House represented, it did
not represent the people. If they
reqnuftrtehd to be that,
they must appeal, not to the influence
that of the mind. If, instead of going b
oenpui frns e but
'their
canvasses with individuals whose wealth and position it
Watt expected would influence the voters,—(Hear)—they
y
veeore to appeal to the minds and consciences of the
elections would become schools of moral
isin-
struction.riei' These were among some of the many reasons
"e bad for supporting the Bill, though. as he had stated,
be should have.preterred the measure associated with
Other organic reforms. He hoped, for the sake of the
country, for the sake of the character of the House,
which ought to act in consistency with the resolution it
bad passed—(Cheers)—fer the sake of the thousands
who could not exercise their franchise in freedom—for
the sake of all classes=he cordially supported the mo-
tion.—(Cheers.)
Sir H. VERNEY rose, amidst loud cries of " Divide."
The right of voting he regarded as a public trust, for
public purposes, and he considered that trust ought to
be exercised in a public manner. Indeed he knew not
On what principle it was attempted to be contended that
Members of Parliament should vote publicly, while
constituents gave their votes privately.—(Cries of " Di-
"ride, divide.")
After the lapse of two or three minutes, during which
there were calls for a division, and cries of " No opposi-
tion, no opposition," while all eyes were directed towards
the Ministerial benches, in the expectation that Lord
John Russell, or some other member of the Government
Present, would address the House,
Mr. H. BERKELEY said that no arguments had been
adduced against the motion to which he thought it ne-
cessary to reply. He should leave it to the House to say
Whether the course adopted by the Government, in de
°doing to offer any remarks on a question of great pub-
lic •
importance, was a respectful mode of treating the
'lloiect.—(Cries of " Divide," "No opposition.") s-s_
....Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the
Itouse divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority
The motion was consequently negatived
COLONIAL POSSESSIONS.
f Mr. ROEBUCK moved for leave to bring in a Bill
411, r the better government of certain colonial possessions.
Re
subject he said was not one of an attractive nature.
all proposed to deal with a serious question, and he
hitveid the House to legislate with large interests, not
Solelyalready
anxious for the benefit of the people, He had
toe
endeavoured in print to explain the opinions and
'le Principles which he wished to be embodied in an Act
°f parliament,
and he entreated the indulgence of the
,to
ouse while he briefly recapitulated the views which he
Zught deserving of adoption by the Legislature.
ee the year 1806, England had acted as a colonizing
coh
Drente without rule or power; England was the
Zovatest colonial power by themselves and those who
ac„coe-eded them that the earth ever saw. They had
ired that power, not by rule or principle, not by
assistance of the Government, but by the superior
strengthn of the people. It was the people who did it all,
- net the Government.—(Hear, hear.) This argu-
ment might be said to tell against himself, but he had to
go into comparison with the conduct pursued by the
American people. They now saw great danger of losing
one part of their colonial possessions. If something
Were not done quickly they should lose mastery over one
Portion of their colonial dominions, and see the Amer--
o;llRepublic extending its territories from the Isthmus
,„ Panama to the North Pole, and becoming superior in
iuslYititue power. This was no idle fear. He put no
14,t_11 in the Government, for, with regard to colonial
este, it was evident they knew not what to do. He ac-
:.gpted the position that the colonies were a benefit to
on land. Their colonial empire was not only a great
to°td, but it was one of their great sources of strength;
11,d he :wanted to see the communities who were
rider their dominion acting lovingly as their sub-
arid rendering them not an unwilling obedience,
inhabitants
the homage of hearts. If they had to compel the
viestt_hitants of those colonies to obey their laws and
currs, then he said that colonial possessions were a
the ,e,,fer those over whom they exercised sway, and for
does'iti`9Ple of England, who were at the expense of their
good °p• The colonies ought to be maintained by
but wileeficent dominion, without the aid of the army,
neettib,"" the assistance of the citizens themselves. Ge-
With 4' e,Peaking, England had governed the colonies
dlitp; egLect, and at other times with mischievous med-
044„,antd then, where they deemed it practicable to
detea-t " tacin, they went on until they were disgraced and
disgr ed, or they succeeded in a way that almost was as
colooreful as defeat. Such was the history of their
al dominion. From the commencement until the
resentpresent day, 'that was the course they had adopted.
resort could onlyjudge of their colonial dominion by its
0 '44. England went on the principle of arming
:non red companies with extraordinary powers,:and in
this
kingdom, were either displaced or destroyed before
tiColonies could, by any possibility, succeed.—(Hear.)
eveeno could gainsay that fact. Every attempt to re-
„E‘hagland by a system of colonization he contended
that colonization or emigration was of itself a misery,
for did they reflect that it was by such means they ought
men
relieve the distresses of their fellow-countrymen. Ir
rere taken from their native land it should be re-
garded as a direful misfortune, and it certainly formed
out ofportion of the duty of a overnment to drive men
the country to make that country peaceful and se-
cure,tird to lay the foundation for a colonial kingdom.
nial goevrnersuppose that under the present system of colo-
to try
tnment a band of gentlemen and others chose
thither heither fortunes in a fbreign land, and to transfer
themselves, their families, and their property.
Ear
pat
at tltihey did so under the guidance of the Noble
Austrai_c head of the colonial department, and went to
puliiin:s.tft- Now, on the Ist of June, 1824, an Act of
vut Was passed confeuiug 0110 milliQu 0

85
136

acres on the Australiaa Agricultural Company.
Well, he supposed that as many gentlemen as were
then present in that House—although the number
was not very large—with friends and some
mountaineers chose to transfer themselves into
some portion of the million of acres possessed by the
Australian Agricultural Company. Suppose, after a
favourable voyage, they landed in Australasia, and find-
' ing themselves in an admirable climate, they asked them-
selves where they were. There was no provision, no
legislative protection for those English emigrants in any
portion of that dominion, and he begged his Hon. Friend
the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, to remark that.
There was no law, no Government, whereby they would
be protected thereafter. He asked, was that assertion
true; and if it were so, was it not a most extraordinary
and lamentable fact, that in their vast colonial empire,
there should be no rule or legislative principle on which
a band of emigrants could know how to act. If they
went to Canada, NUT 4 Scotia, or the colonial possessions
of North America, they might find there both laws and
government in existence; but within a few miles of Eng-
lish territories, on the waste lands of North America, in
the wilds, and new part of the world, a different result
would be found. He wanted the colony of North America
to extend from the Atlantic to the Pacific. He wanted
not only Nova Scotia to be inhabited, but the opposite
shore of the Pacific as well. He wanted that Van-
couver's Island, which they had given away, should, by
a proper system of government, be put in such a state
as to be able to stand in comparison with what the
neighbouring United States t eel tory of Oregon would
speedily be. But, from the present system of go-
vernment, there was no hope of that being done. Lot
the House consider how far they were behind the United
States in their system of colonization. In 1783 the
principle of American independence was conceded,
arid by the treaty of Paris the boundaries of
what was afterwards termed the United States were
marked. Since then, however, the United States had
increased in size to tour times the extent of the bounda-
ries recognised by that treaty, while its people, which
at the passing of that treaty, in 1783, numbered three
millions, had increased to twenty-five, millions. In Canada
the population at that time was 200,000, but with a
much larger and more fertile territory than the United
States. The population had since increased only by two
millions. Now, how was that? It was said the United
States had increased by the combination of large
tracts of territory into smaller departments, as if the
population of the counties of England were located in
one, and had increased in number in that respect ;
but the fact was, the increase in the population was
not composed of Americans, it was composed of
English, Irish, and Scotch, who had emigrated
to the United States. That increase of popula-
tion was still going •n. He had himself received the
other day a letter from parties in Sheffield, who stated
that they were a portion of his constituents, and that
they were about leaving this country for Texas, and the
purport of the letter was a request that he should com-
municate with Mr. Bancroft, the American Minister at
this Court, and endeavour to get that gentleman to use
his influence with the President of the United States to
give them a grant of 4,000 acres of land. There was
established in Sheffield, he believed, what was called the
Sheffield Free Emigration Society, and these people
were going out under its auspices. But he would ask
why should they go to the United States, why not to
their own colonies? The reason was, that should they
do so, they would leave this country in a state of doubt
and uncertainty. There was no rule or law laid down
for their guidance, by which they could by any means
shadow forth to themselves the means of future subsist-
ence, and they knew well that were they to lose their
present position, and go to a country where they were
unknown, where no means were taken to render their
position such as they could subsist on, they would be
running upon utter ruin to themselves and their fami-
lies. If there was a rule or law, which extended over all
the colonies, to give people an idea of what position they
would occupy, or what they might expect should they go
to any of them, the case would be altered; but there was
no such law.—(Hear, hear.) There was nothing but the
mere will of the Colonial office, and that will never even
put on paper; for if it once made a fixed rule, it would
be so far beneficial, but it was not so. That, then, was a
matter which ought first to be attended to. Now he was
aware that to attempt by one Act to apply a general rule
for all the colonies would be injudicious. Some of them
he did not consider colonies in the sense he meant, such as
Malta and the lonian Islands. These were not places
where they sent the English people to make new
homes and occupations for themselves. That was a
colony, in his view of the case, which was planted
by Englishmen, who had gone there with the intention
of making that colony their home; and to such colonies
it was the Bill he would propose to introduce would
refer. It would not interfere with the West Indian colo-
nies, for there the difference of population was so great;
the slave, though now free, was so different in habits
and feelings, from the white man, that special legisla-
tion was required for so special a state of society. The
colonies his measure would have reference to, therefore,
would be the North American colonies, South Africa,
Australasia, and New Zealand. One system of law he
considered applicable to all these, and he would describe
it. He had already said that England had reaped con-
siderable advantages from her colonies, but she could net
expect to do so longer under the old system, for the old
cry of ships, colonies, and commerce, was no longer the
order of the day. The navigation-laws being repealed,
or he hoped would be so, the species of trade carried on
under them would no longer work, and that being the
case, what species of trade ought they to have recourse
to in order to render their colonies prosperous, and
from which the country could derive any benefit?
They could only hope to derive such benefit by
making those colonies independent communities,
dependent, of course, on the Crown, but having
laws applicable to their state and position, such
as would create an increase of their means ant;
population, and by that means create a demand
among their population for that which this country
produced, thus giving rise to a system of reciprocal
trading, free in the indirect sense of the term.—(Hear,
hear.) Their desire ought, therefore, to be to make
these c alonies as large and populous as possible, and to
do that a regular law ought to be framed to aid and
direct those who might wish to go to them and to in-
ducts people to do so. In the framing of that law he
saw no reason why they might not follow the example
of the United States. It might be said that the United
States had a more fertile soil and better climate, and
therefore no comparison could be made between the co•
lonization of it and that of Canada. But both the climate
and the soil of Upper Canada were superior to that of the
United States, at least the corresponding parts of them.
No place, in fact, appeared more advantageous to the
establishment of an extended trade than did Upper Canada;
and if they would only pass such measures as would give
an opportunity to bring out its resources, it would soon
assume a different aspect from what it now bore. He
would therefore propose to pass an Act of Parliament
something similar to that passed by the United States Con-
federation in 1787, for the pupose of effecting a similar
end. The moment the people of the United States found
themselves an independent nation the Confederation
passed one comprehensive law, which regulated the
whole colonization of their vast north-western territory,
which now has divided into five sovereign states, and
included in the union. That Act provided for the gra-
dual appropriation and improvement of waste land, until
it should become such as to be laid out in separate
settled communities, and by its operation five magnifi-
cent sovereign states had been carried out of that vast
territory since the year 1787. Across the river St.
Lawrence they saw all that doing; but though under a
better climate, and living in a more fertile soil, they had
failed to follow the example so nobly set them. He
would, therefore, have free trade and seR-government,
and these were the two principal propositions of the
measure he sought to.introduce. He would wish in that
measure to lay down that no land should be parted with
by the Crown, unless it lay within the boundary of some
distant settlement, meaning by settlement a portion of
territory not included in any recognised state. In that
respect he was adopting the United States system. The
waste land he would have divided into settlements and
let out accordingly; and when—say in the course of five
years—the Surveyor should report that the population
of such settlement had risen to 10,000, it should cease
to be a settlement, and become a province. That was
not the case now, for the colonies were left to fight their
unhappy way against difficulties insurmountable in their
present state, and no care or attention whatever paid
them. Not long since a Bill passed in reference to New
Zealand, but even when it did pass, he did not believe
twenty Members in that House knew anything about it.
—(Hear, hear.) It was sent out to New Zealand, and
the Governor sent it back, stating it was of no use —it
would not work. And the Colonial Secretary, finding
out his error, came to that House, and asked it to can-
cel the measure. That showed the base system of legis-
lation pursued towards those colonies. It was said no
objection was entertained on the part of the Govern-
ment as to giving,those colonies a system of self-govern-
ment, but that the colonists themselves did not wish it.
Canada, however, had got it. It was talked of in
Australasia, and New Zealand. And what they became
of the objections to granting the system? He would
call the attention of the House first to the opinions of
the Colonial Secretary of New Zealand, which was well
known to be a fertile country and a good climate, at a
time that 10,000 Englishmen made application to that
functionary to enable them to take land there. What
did they think was the answer of the Colonial officer?
The Secretary for the Colonies said that New Zealand
was a very troublesome sore; that he did not want to
have anything to do with it. What was the result?
Those adventurous Englishmen, with stubborn good
sense, quarrelled with the secretary, and put him down.
That should serve as au example to every Government
that colonists were worthy of the parental interest of
their own Government. Again, let them look to those
pilgrim fathers when they drew up their agreements on
the Thames, how they had cast off their allegiance to
the English Crown through the apathy of the Colonial
Secretary.
Lord J. RUSSELL—No, no.
Mr. ROEBUCK—The Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell)
said " No," but he knew that New Z:eeland was
not then supposed to belong to this country.
Long after that time this country sent out a
Consul and treated with the aborigines as an
independent state, and then entered into the Treaty of
Yeitanssul. Then, after this treaty, those Englishmen
were subjected to the greatest husailiation and disaress,
the savage natives denying that they had made any co-
Tenant fur the land that the emigrants possessed all
this was owing to the want of any rule or any law on
the part of the Government of this country in that
treaty to protect their fellow subjects. However, a
Governor was sent out, but where wos he sent to? Not
to that part where those 10,000 settlers located them-
selves, but to where a few missionaries had settled, in
the north, three hundred miles distant from them.
Government then objected to their title, though they
tamed that they had purchased it from the aborigines,
and the result was that they and the Government of that
time quarrelled about the land. In a word, the want of
SQUIQ sylitowitic checks any iwpruement