The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL" PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 6.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at rive o'Clock.
BEER ACl'.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition, signed by 5,000
bitants of Manchester, stating that the operation of the Bcer Laws
were most injurious to the morals es well as the comforts
of the working classes. The Noble aud Learned Lord presented similar
petitions from 70 assessors of household property in Manchester, and 484
licensed victuallers.

IRISH POOR LAW RILL.
Ou the Orcbr of the Day being moved for the third reading of this
Bill,

The Earl of WICKLOW said he understood a Noble Lord (the
Marquis of Londonderry) intended to oppose the third reading of the
Bill. As that Noble Lord was not present, what he should propose
was, that the Bill should be read a third time to.night, that the
amendments should be made, and that the discussion should take place
on the motion that the Bill do pass. If that were agreed to, he should
not oppose the third reading.

Lord MELBOURNE, for one, had no objection to that course being
adapted.
Lord BROUGHAM said that such a course woulnl be quite eon.
sistent with the rules of their Lordships' House. Indeed, it had been
adopted more than once before.
The Bill was then read a third time, and several verbal amendments
were made.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved that the 68th clausebe
expunged.
On this a division took place, and the numbers were—
For the Clause,
Against it ..
Majority

..... -33

The clause, therefore, stands part of the Bill.
' The LORD CHANCELLOR then proposed various, verbal amend.
ment in different parts of the Bill, which were agreed to generally
without obaervation.
The Earl of WICY.LOW proposed to add to the 17th clause a pro-
viso, that wherever one or more town lands laying adjacent were the
property of more than one proprietor, and those proprietors agreed col-
lectively or individually to pay the rate for all occupiers of property
under 51., and served notice in writing upon the commissioners to that
effect, then the corn nissioners should be at liberty to form such town
land into an electoral district.
The LORD CHANCELLOR could have no objection to the intro-
duction of that proviso.
The ALsquis of LANSDOWNE thought that it would meet the ob-
jection which had been raised with regard to the 51. clause.
The amendment was then agreed to.
Lord MELBOURNE then moved that the Bill lit) now pass, and
that the debate on that question be adjourned to Thursday next.
The Marquis of SALISBURY objected to the course which the No.
ble Viscount proposed to pursue, because it would leave no opportunity
to a Noble Marquis who was not then in the House to propose any fir.
thee amendments upon this Bill; and he understood the Noble Marquis
to have expressed a wish to see the new amendments printed before he
could judge whether any further amendment was required.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that he considered it neces-
sary that Noble Lords should have an opportunity of again recording
their votes upon the Bill, especially as the names of several Noble Lords
who did vote for the second reading had not appeared in the lists which
were published in the channels of information in general circulation.
How the mistake arose he could not say; but, considering the interest
with which the people of Ireland looked to the votes of their landlords
on this subject, he thought it desirable that their names should be re.
corded ; and he therefore gave notice that on the last stage of the Bill
he should take the sense of the House.
Lord BROUGHAM said with regard to the day, he had a great ob-
jection to Thursday, because he had postponed the question of slavery
to that day, and he felt no such affection for this Bill as would induce
him to waive his right to bring forward that motion on Thursday.
Lord MELBOURNE—Then I will take Tuesday.
Lord BROUGHAM had another objection to that day, because then
he had to bring forward a motion respecting the Sardinian vessels.
The Marquis of LONDONDEIIRY hoped the Noble and Learned
Lord would persist in that motion, for it was a very important one.
The Duke of WELLINGTON did not imagine that any Noble Lord
would be able to propose any amendments on the question that the Bill
do pass.

Lord HOLLAND said that their Lordships having read the Bill a
third time, having also introduced between the third reading and the
question that the Bill do pass certain amendments, it was competent to
any Noble Lord to make observations on the Bill upon the question that
the Bill do pass ; but the moment for moving an amendment to the Bill
was gone by.—(No, no, Now.) Yes, now before the question was put,
but upon that question no one could propose an amendment. He
begged to suggest to the Noble Marquis that he had the opportunity of
recording his opinion by entering his dissent on the Journals, without
taking the sense of the House.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY thanked the Noble Baron for his
advice, but he thought that the sense of the House ought to be taken on
that question ; but before that he must say that, after all the altera-
tions which had been introduced, the House ought to have the oppor-
tunity of seeing them collected and printed ; and if that opportunity
were not afforded he should think they were legislating in a manner
not very creditable. If they adjourned upon the question that the Bill
do pass, no Noble Lord would have an opportunity of proposing any al..
teration, and he therefore hoped that they would adjourn the further
consideration ofthe Bill.
Lord BROUGHAM said that if any further amendments were to be
proposed it was Blear that the question ought not to be put to.night, and
the further proceeding might be adjourned.
A tter a short conversation, in which the Earl of Shaftesbury, Lord
Brougham, and the Earl of Wicklow took part,
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said that there appeared to be some words
in the 17th clause, which were really useless, and he would therefore
move as an amendment that they be emitted. If the debate upon that
motion were adjourned, he apprehended the whole difficulty would be re.
moved. He therefore beggnd to move the omission of those words.
Lord MELBOURNE then moved that the debate on that motion be
adjourned till Monday, with the understanding that the debate en the
question that the Bill do pass was le be taken the same evening.
The Bishop of DURHAM hoped that the Bill would not be allowed
to interfere with the Benefices Plurality Bill, which stood for Monday.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought that that Bill would oc-
cupy very little time.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE must say that it was entitled to
priority.
After a short conversation the motion of the Noble Viscount was
agreed to, it being arranged that the Plurality of Benefices Bill was to
have precedence of the Irish Poor Law Bill.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said that the Noble Baron at the head of
the Colonial Office had stated that he had no objection to produce the
papers regarding Canada, which had been alluded to the other night, but
that it would be more according to rule to move for them by an address
to her Majesty. He therefore begged now to move that address._
Agreed to,

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE gave notice that on Monday he
would move the second reading of the Juvenile Offenders' Bill ; and
the discussion might be taken en going into Committee on Friday.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said that, although it was contrary to the
general rule, he did think it would be very convenient to meet on Wed.
nesday, as by that means they might get out of town ten days earlier.—
(" Hear, hear," from the Duke of Richmond.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE also gave notice that on Monday
he should move the second reading of the International Copyright Bill.
The Sheriff's Courts (Scotland) Bill then passed through Committee,
and, after a conversation across the table between the Lord Chancellor,
the Duke of lluccleuch, the Earl of Aberdeen, the Earl of Haddington,
and the Marquis of Bute, was reported to the Reuse with amendments.
—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, JeLr 6.
The SPE.% UZI tool• the Chair at the usual hour.
ALLOWANCE TO THE DUKE OF SUSSEX.

Ir. GILLON rose, pursuant to notice, to call the attention of the
House to the allowances of his Royal Highness the Duke of Sussex, as
compared with those hitherto enjoyed by the other branches of the
Parlia
various sums arising from allowances under various
Navy,
savof
Royal Family. The Hon. Member then went into a detail of the
Ac
meat, and from their Commissions in the Army and
of 58 000/. a year, the
,
Cumberland, 27 000/ the
by each member of the Royal Family. By these detailsdY derived
by
peered that the Duke of York, had an income
Duke of Clarence 38,500/., the Duke of ,
Doke of Cambridge, 27,0001., whereas the Duke of Sussex had only
21;0001. a-year, and that was bestowed upon him at a much later period
of life than any of les Royal Brothers. The Duke of Sussex never had
any regiment or other some.? of emolument bestowed upon him as the
other sons of George the Third had. His Royal Highness, it is well
known, had applied his income to the encouragement of arts and science,
,
and in promoting ne literature of the country, and in establishing a
most valuable library to which the
public had access by merely writing
their names. Whatever success his motion might meet with in the
House, sure he was that the people of England would give it their
sanction, arid he should therefore move " That a humble address be
presented to her Majesty, praying that she will take into tier gracious
consideration the Parliamentary allowance* hitherto, and at present, en.
joyed by his Royal Highness the Duke of Sussex, as compared with
those enjoyed by the other members of the Royal F.a with a view
to recommend srime addition to them."—(lkar )
Mr. W. CA IIPBE LI, seconded the motion.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that this was a motion fir an address
to the Crown relative to the income of a member of the Royal Family,
and he telt that if it was proper or accessary that a motion should be
made, it would have been the duty of the Ministers of the Crown to
have proposed it— (Hear, hear, wear)—and nothing would have beet'
more pleasing, no doubt, to the feelings of her Majesty. He had not,
however, received any commands hotn her Majesty on this subject.
It was well known that his It.yal Ilighnes• extended his patronage to
the arts, to science, and to literature in a manner befltting a Prince of
this great and enlightened connutmity.— (Cheers ) He (Lord J Rus.
sell) was far from disputreg the statem-tits which had been matte with
reference to the income of his Royal highness, as compared
with the incomes of the other members of the Royal Family at
ditrerent periods ; but that part of the question he did not think it was
necessary or convenient to discuss at the present moment. In his
opinion there ought nit such occasions to be an almost unanimous up_
pruie.Coli, on the part of lion. Members, of the proposed incre3"—
(Ileal)—and he remembered that on one of the occasions to which
I.e had referred, a motion to increase the income of one
of the Royal Family was rejected by a majority of one—(Hear, hear)—
while another motion relative to lite
grant. of 10,000/. to the Duke of
York, occasioned reflections, both in that House anti out of doors,
whichwere injurious to his Royal IliOness, and certainly tended to
lewer the Royal Family hi the eyes of the
people of England.—(tlear,
Lear) Ile must admit that the libe•al patronage by his Royal High.
tiers of charitab:e institutions
might make it difficult for his Royal
Highness to keep within the limits of his income; at the same time lie
couldiret say that that income was a stinted or a narrow income.—
(I tear, hear, hear.) In conclusion, he would only observe, that in op.
posing this preposition, he did so on the ground that it was not possible
tor the Government to support—on the contrary, they were bound to
oppose—a proposition Which they themselves had not thought it advis.
able to recommend to her Majesty.---(Cheers.)
Mr. WARBURTON had never heard as speech he from any one in that
House, placed in the position in which the Noble Lord then was, more
honourable to him than the speech they had just heard from that Noble
Lord himuelf. The lion. Member farther observed that he must• op-
pose the motion, from a sense of public duty.
Mr FRESEIFIELD had come down to the Relive i
~inn that the motion would have met with the g th an Imprems.
concurrence of
the House—( llear)—and he thought the Noble Lord Might, without
any compromise of t üblic duty, have given hit accent
Gt it. He should
not think that he was ivriOrtning his cluty If he du •
i not give his cordial
support to this motion.
Mr. TENNYSON D'EYNCOURT said that his Reyal Highness was
now between GO and 70 years of age, anti it ought nett be forgotten
that he never received any Parliamentary allowance
until
30.—(Hear ) Ile had most honourably set apart, for was he
a
a portion of his income for the liquidation of debts, which, small allowance for his own personal expenses which
Ire r,
owing to
the heyday of his youth, he had been compelled to contra,: received in
fact, that his Royal Highness was not in a state at the twe,, It
was
a
to enter tain with that hospitality and dignity whichhis
stationio reqit mo
uiremendi
the distinguished foreigners wiso were now in London._(ar hear )
he
l'hiscredit of the was neithecountrr conducive to the dignity of the ItoFamily, nor to
:y. Ya
Mr. HAWES thought the country, in granting 21,0004 a year to a
munger branch of the Royal Family, was exceedingly tilrerat and doing
t ample justice.—(Cheers.)
Sir It. PEEL front motives of public duty he should give his cordial
support to the views of the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) en tiit • s subject.
—(Cheers.) He agreed with the Hon. Member for liridport that the
Noble Lord had very strong temptations to depart from the strict path of
duty—(Cheers)—and in acting as he had done had given an honourable
example to public men. He concurred with the Noble Lord in thinking
that if this motion were necessary it ought to proceed from the Gemerri_
merit, and not from any private Member of the House. He must gay
that if they were to listen to individual Members in the granting:of public
money, or of rewards, it would be hardly possible to set any limit to the
expenses of the country. He thought that this would be a I hi
hi; y dam.
geruus precedent to establish, and therefore he could not acquiesce in it.
On private and personal grounds, and looking to the expense to which
the Illustrious Duke war at, in giving encouragement to literature and
science, and promoting the cause of charity throughout the country, it
would be more agreeable to him to acquiesce in the motion than to ce.
silt it ; but at the same time, thinking as he did that the subject was one
which ought to originate with the Government alone, he must support
the Noble Lord in the course which he had taken,

Mr. HUME expressed a hope that a similar proposition would be
Lrought forward at a future period by the Government, because he
thought the Illustrious Duke was entitled to some such mark of respect
from the country. He knew that for the last thirty years the Illustrious
Duke had been the patron not only of literature, the arts and sciences