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London, England, 1849-07-18 00:00:00

had worked favourably, and he begged him to forego his
°Pinion on this occasion, and give leave to bring in
this Bill. The case of other labourers might be consi•
tiered when they came forward. lie thought it would
have a bad effect to take from these poor people all hope.
The number with their families, in the metrop.dis, was
about five and twenty thousthel. He did not think that
interference would be hicompatitde with the spirit and
genveius of their free institutions. They should, at all
:nts, see whether something could not be done to re-
'me„,,(lY the evils of which they complained,
e r. COBDEN sail that, to ask the House to fix the
eoaiurs of labour of adult persons, was asking them to
"'IS a new principle. The principle of the Coalwhip-
Pen Bill was the amount of labour, not the time spent
upon it• His principle was perfect freedom of labour, as
h- the trade of corn and everything else. There was
:rnredleye.a otrade that could not be proved to be noxious to
.!°rne extent. If they begun with the principle of inter-
n this subjnet, there was no knowing where it
would end. The principle they were asked to sanction
7as nothing but communism. It had been tried in Paris
aflst Year, and the workine classes were doomed to severe
,I,3aPpointment from the failure of this attempt. Louis
'Tale had sat in the Lexemburg, and invited all the
shoemakers and tailors, and the mass of the operatives,
lode work; and what was the resnit? A bloody revo-
rn, arising mainly from the misery and disap-
atnent it occasioned. The attempt would assuredly
,all in this country now, for the grievanc.-s of these ba-
kers. If theirgrievances were so great, why did so many
Wof them come so far from the north to undergo them?
has not leave the trade to the Londoners ? He
Irsed he looked with suspicion upon these cone-
-3,,ltints. He should vote against the principle of at-
conzttriy.inL to manaee the affairs of adult males in this
Hear.) He warned the House against the
consequences that would follow from the attempt to
!,I_9t r upon this principle. It would not only end in
uvrlal:pointment, but in making the condition of the
lug Classes worse than it was now.—ear.)
Sir. G. GREY said that they had opposed the ap-
:intment of a Committee of Ingniry, because to grant it
tiedntlid be encouraging delusive hopes, and because they
ee alreadY a mass of information on this subject before
the,. lionse• If they sanctioned this principle once,
e Was no limit to the extent to which it might be
carried.
Lord ROBERT GROSVENOR said that as the Go-
Zernmen t
veld out no hope of its assistance, it would be
aught really
go to a division, that these poor people
areht really see who were their friends in that House.—
frat.) In every instance in which they had deviated
om the principle so much denounced, it had been fol-
Owed by unmixed good, and he felt convinced that the
Sanction of a deviation in the instance of the bakers,
tould be followed by equally beneficial consequences.
'L le should persevere in this motion, in order that the
bakers might see what chances they had of success.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For leave to bring in the Bill le
Against it ... ..• •• ••• 77
Maj,,rity against the Bill ... —5B
SMITHFIELD MARKET.

Mr. MACKINNON rose to call the attention of the
Rouse to the report of the Committee on Smithfield
market. In the few words he had to state he trusted
that he should have indulgencethe,tlti
the first place, he wishedto that: he did H
dld'uusoe' I
t s,e Inc
the office of chairman o' f the Committee. Two distin-
guished Members of the House having declined to take
up the question, the duty
took it. In naming a Comm!te ~
641
tip.oiral.limh'eans'ellehceteduenidgehrt-
iembers of the Committee who sat inquiryuhponfetlhteaii
1847, and as many other gentlemen7_ who felt
public health
in the que-tion merely as it concern d interest
end convenience, but who had no personal
what-
ever in the removal of Smithfield market.
interest
was thought by
He thought
it right clistinetly ti sta e, that it tome parties that this question was brought forward
with a view to peculiar interests. On behalf
of himself end the Committee he most distinctly
and po,itively rebutted that charge. Not one of
, and therefore he thought he might them
hid any interest as to the site of
a"
fornevi he t
k.
claim
report the credit of being the unbiassed
re,nelusiort 0,
15
honest and honourable men. He would lIOW, in a
very few words, state to the House the nature of that
report. It was, in brief, that Smithfield reerket ayes de-
ficient in size, inconvenient in accommodation, and badly
tt.)ell'lVilhdere athe
therefore it ought to be al) dished —(Hear,
Committee left entirely in the bands of her M ijesty'e
new market should be established the
kiniaters. He was
happy to state that the motion he
tas about to make was sanctioned by public opini e .
Re had been gratified that day by seeing,
in what the
ou• Member for Sheffield called the " treat Bude light
°I public opinion"—the limes—in article strongly
eendemnstory of the continuance of the market. At the
tee
moment, when we had the cholera amongst us,
tut, importance of the que-tion would be admitted. It
w,as n Hitt much how a few thousands might be pro-
butchers meat, buttthere most, but how two millions of her
Znortc' Y s subjects might be kept in health. The
of the
Committee was to the effect that in the
fir" c•ern Place the arena of Smithfield market was too con-
eliecefor
lied It was a singular fact that it had been in exist-
much more
five hundredyear.s, and even at the commence-
Wa4 objected to as insufficient, flow
s° now, when the population was tenfold greater ! One
of the objections to the removal of the market would be
tshat the P
teo/ -orporation of London would lose between
e°t-,.„,- and 6,0001. of yearly revenue. He did not see
b - -as any objection, because that amount easilymight.
the be
e mad° uP by giving them a share in the tolls tested on
th beasts sent to the new market; besides which, though
ke,„P°,tonaittee recommended that a square sheuld be
nruclear on the site of the present market, yet the large
411, deal houses that might be built on that square,
atetild also tend to compensate the City for any loss. To
.."ow the insufficiency of space it was only necessary to
'1'4,4, that in 1731 the total number of cattle
ale en
e to market during the year was
tit,ttc7-; whereas, in 1846. there was 310,000
h of cattle, and 1,600.000 sheep; that, he
te-cnight, was conclusive as to the insufficiency of the
area_ T._
A In 1828 a Committee reported against it on this
;teat But besides this objection, the market created
-Lat injury to the grazier, to the public, and to the
-'her. It created au injury to the grazier, because he
The
~..entild not superintend the sale of his own cattle, -eornent th
tied 'Y arrived a • ' h d • d
t Smithfield they were placed at
osal of a salesman, and considering t e epresse
Me 01 he agricultural interest at the present time, that 4'4'4 be considered a great grievance. It would be a
devry great advantage to the grazier if he could have the
V ,omit of his own cattle. That conclusion was
supported by the evidence of many persons practically
eequinted with the subject, all of whom agreed that
tinder the present system it was impossible for the
owner to sell his cattle at his own valuation. He
moat take what the salesman gave him. Great as
this inconvenience and loss
might b to the payers.t
e
he was of opinion
was
health of the publicof tenfold greaterimportance.
Professor Owen gave as Ovid. nee that the circumstances
Under which animals were driven to marker,..ilat,..nidi
ttihiemayalee•
in which they were slaughtered, was ca•ea
it, Putrify much sooner than it would otherwise do, arid 1
tnat it was consequently most unerhaleseure. The Pro
foe-or said that there was no country in the world
Where so much pains wits taken to bring a superior e,:•4-)
we ere
to the ket, and none when brought there was .
,r-
-ill ina-
used. One of the results was, that cancer was
etnneh more frequent among ihe lower classes than at any
lertner p
o. eriod. He did not undervalue the imp irance
of drainage, but urged the necessity C
the meat
atatightered at Smithfield was a muter that ought to be
considered in connexion with public health. Another
Point, though of less imeortance, we the driving of the
annelids through the szreets ou the Sunday evening,
lanßdanger
the desecration of the Lord's•day, besides the
er to life and limb which arose from the practice.
At this moment Smithfield was most unhealthy, from the
,n,°xieus vapours arising from the slaughter-houses in
rat vicinity ; though naturally, he believed, that as it
;say on a rising ground, it was very healthy. They
j'",.._al also evidence to show that it was a source of loss
ane'lhiejury to the butchers; and if it was so, and also, as
d shown, injurious to the graziers, who paid for it
inthe g run ? Why the public had to pay for it in an
enhanceder price of meat. The mode in which the animals
t_leasoo great emelt
wee meat, dfrawn into a ring to economise space was produe-
Y, and this, though no very strong
rtiou nforothe removal of the market, was a considers •
cattle
not t be lost si ht f The large number of foreign
g o .
and shoe:ip which were now imported, many of
which, esn
pox and other the sheep, were infected with small-
greate er diseases, formed another reason why
..._
ma r space should be given for the market, It was,
were`n .n .y cats, impossible to tell whether these animals
obese ac',Beased or not, and when they were driven into
thee_flua,sc.k. of. '2,000
lose pens, they and
clean sheep. He knew of
which was thus infected. Say what
attoYe. might
ain favour of Smithfield-market, it was a nui-
to,,,er,!. a,nd, er far from the corporation of the city of
benefit losing by its removal, he believed they would
_ 0 nt by it,
He
of the corporation was unreal-
11;a.onhaltseir in favour of ita removal.—(Aldernsan Sidney—
..,
.•).. Re understood the Aldermen were so.
4-tr, Alderman SIDNEY reminded the Hon. Gentle-
itT,!), that the
.Common Council represented the Corpora-
'e.l•_. of the city of London.—(Laughter.)
Fu'raAldermen, MACKINNON only referred to the Court of
len. At all events, there could be no doubt that
~7.centuies it had an abomination.—(Hear.) He
15wiel:ied it was only new maintained by a collusion be-
t_
it,
the salesmen and other parties who were interested
a 1 , and by that
timeeans meat was made at least 2d. a
pound dearer than ould otherwise be It was curious
that the market had been for centuries. the scene of in-
tolerance and cruelty. Ignorr!nce.had supplied witches
and religious bigotry its victims in S ithf - rket
—(Hear.) The subject wmaeszeer as ield Smithfield-market.
.
too important to be left
in the hands of a private
mitzttisivohnivahwhahicoh couldldi
only be dealt with by the Govern
his opinion, issue a commission to innv:,stigate thetiwt;ole
subject, and decide where the site of
markets Should
be, and whether there should be oneewOr rat
With other questions ineidentallyconneetedwevoithin hfauture,
sect. It had been suggested to him that the slaugthtesrllinbz
ef cattle could be carried on by machinery, and the ani.
deprived zr existence without being subjected to all mthe
Pain and brutality which characterised the existing
'Pone He thought the plan recommended a ,
;Ind taken in conjunction with the establishmen of d one
public
abattoirs, would be productive of great benefit. In the
event of this taking place the price of butchers' meat
Would fall, and the quality of the meat sold to the puhlic
Weald be more wholesome. The motion which he pro-
Posed submitting was, that a respectful address be pre-
seined to her Majesty, praying that the report of the
seined to
Committee be taken into early and
serious consideration.
Mr. 0. GORE seconded the motion.
LiNtr. OSBORNE regretted that the Hon. Gentleman,
'Ft tead of bringiug f Twerd the p-esent run!ion, teed net
Perievercel with Ili, Ili'i er ti.o ',:irvli." • - • -.'
' '
.L1‘..1 .J 1 ~ 1, L.l ..
LeC%,4,11', •W,,ich 14 i. . eeeice!!e: 4 -0f...! In:-.1: . - ir --`
'nu be proved that the, present position ot Stnithheiee
tillClttet interfered seriously with the public health, then
Kought a case had been made out that the Govern-

ment should interfere. The U. Gentleman's speech.
however. did not, in his opinion, meke out the case.
Indeed the ..peech was not borne out by the evideece
taken before the Committee. The Honourable Gentle
man did wisely iti abstaining from reading passages in
the report, b, cause he must he aware that the great
proportion of thii evidence is directly against the hsser-
tions that he had made. Upwards of seven. mtlll.,ne
of money turned in Smithfield-market, arid before they
interfered with so large an amount of property he
thought a cool c•ise at least ought to be made Out.
(Hear.) It was all very fine for some old ladies to ask
the Hen. Member as a friend to his species to come doWn
to Parliament and ask the Government to remove
Smithfield-market, because the ten parties on their se-
cond fl•ears had been disturbed by the intrusion of some
bullocks; but the experience of the butchers, graz era,
and medical meat, directly showed that the market wes
neither injurious to public health nor ineonvetiiees.
With the exception of Dr. Govin, all the medical men
examined before the Committee stet- d that the position
of the market was peculiarly healthy. There had been
only one case of cholera in 1832. Dr. Govin was the
solitary doctor who contended for its unhealthiness,
while Dr. F irtesque, Dr. Lancaster, Dr. Lynch, Dr.
Burrowes, Mr. Lawrence, and the Hon. Mr. 13yeg,
as well as the inspector of sewers, gave it as their opi-
nion that the 1 icality was peculiarly healthy—that the
wide open space was most beneficial to the city of
London, and cu: ducive to the public health. They
had four to one in favour of Smithfield-market
thus verifying the adaee that doctors differed. Out of
the 6,480 questions asked by the Committee in the
course of their isiquiry, no less than 5,000 of the owners
were favourable to the continuance of the market. The
question of health then fell to the ground, for there
was not one word in the report about the public health.
The movement on the part of those who thought with
the Hen. Gentleman was nothing more or less than an
English pull at the Exchequer. The city of London
received about 5,0001. per annum from the market;
and, of course, if the market were abelisheel, the ground
would become valuable for building purposes. Ie order
to prevent the site being converted to such a use, what
a large sum would not the Consolidated Fund be called
on to lay out for its purchase! It became the House,
when they considered carefully the state of the finances,
to reflect how far a private Member of Parliament was
justified in calling on the Government to expend a sum
of money in the purchase of a site which was not in-
jurious to the health. Besides the medical gentlemen
whose names he had mentioned as being favourable to
the continuaece of Smithfield-market, he might mention
that Dr. Conqu-st had given evidence to the eff-ct that
there was not a more healthy district in London, or one less
affected with either fever or chotere. When the Hon.
Gentleman talked of tea parties on the first floor being
disturbed by the intrusion of bullocks, he wished he
would move for a return of those intrusions.—(A laugh.)
Mr. Payneethe City Coroner, a gentleman well known
and highly respected, had given evidence, in the course
of which he stated that during seven years he had held
but two inquests on persons trampled to death by bul-
locks, but those deaths would have occurred, in all pro-
bability, no matter where the market was situated. Did
the r-1 1
Hon.
nee aetnan mein to tell him that the small pox
in sheep had beeu brought on by the confined see of
Smithfield? It so, why were rant. the bullocks elf,. ted?
The lion. Gentleman did net suppose that th-y could
Out each bleep into a loose box. If he thought so, the
Governme-nt certainly would have enough to do in fur-
nishing loose boxes.
Alderman SIDNEY thought the difficulties or the mere
removal of Smithfield-market, and the nimpeesetieti
'or that removal was the miter queetion in that.
debate. The value of the market was not in the to is
paid to the city of L indon; but in the commeieie
brought to an immense amount to the market.—
(Hear, hear.) The value of cattle sold in Smithfield..
market was esthierted between seven and eight mil-
lions annually. Upon what grounds, he wished to know,
should the Reuse interfere with the channel of c
meree se extimaive ui its nature as that of the Smith-
field market. If they determined that Smitefield mar-
ket was to be closed as a market, then he teought they
were bound to see the vested interests of the Corpora-
tion pertected. Tee lioese paid the C irp oration of
London a p•ior compliment in wasting their tine diseus-
sing the present qu titian. The Corporation had already
entertained the question without prejudiced views, and
out of 226 Meeibers, of which the Corporation con-
s;eterl. only 12 were in favour of the removal of Smith-
fi •hl market. •
Sir DE LACY EVANS said there had been a &al
of lost labour in the forming of the Committee, and
something, he thought, very like racking, and a desire
to exclude certain Honourable Members from sitting
upon it. He could riot see on what principle that
should be done. He himself had been excluded from it.
Under such circumstances, it could only be concluded
that they (the Committee) had made up their minds
upon the subj ca—(Hear, hear.) The great ground
urged against Smithfield was, that it was not adequately
large enough for the purpose. He thought, however, the
statement that had been made, that the Corporation of
London were resolved to make it s e, met that objection.
In the event of Smithfield being removed, they had to
recollect that c-Imp,nsation would be demanded, and he
was told that one of the very first items the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would have to put down, would be
100.0001 compensation for the retrieval of Smi'litield-
market.—(Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend had said that
he did not mean to interfere with private slaughter-
houses; and yet he at the same time pro nosed to re-
move Smithfield, while he allowed the nuisance of the
private slaughter-houses to remain. There could be eo
doubt that the Corporation of London would make a
claim for compensation, and that point was one which
should be taken into consideration. It seemed that toe
public would not go to Islington-market, and now au
attempt was made to make them.—(Hear, hear.) Hav-
ing been prevented sitting on the Committee, he had
risen to make the few observations he had addressed to
the House on the subject.

Sir EDMUND FIL HER said that when he took his
seat upon the Committee he had endeavoured to do his
duty. The question among the witnesses was not se
!much as to the propriety of removing Smithfield-market
as that of rival perties cutting against each other. It
was six of one and half-a-diasn of the other—and one
could never know what they were driving at.—(Hear,
hear, and laughter.) He was persuaded it could not be
othefavise wah their Committees unless they had power,
as the Cornmittr es in another place had, of taking the
evidence upon oath.--(Hear. hear.)
L trd RoaEwr GROSVENOR said that there were
in the neighbourhood of Smithfield market knaekers'-
yards, bone-burning establistneets, and nuisances of
such a character which he thought were more injurious
to the health of the inhabitants than eveu the meeker
asele—(lleer, hear.) The evidence went to prove that
the market was too small, and that there was no room to
enlarge it sufficiently to meet the demands of the popu-
lation. As ti the question of compensation, he denied
that Smithfield was orodueing any profit tadequate to
entitle the Corporation to compensation. He thought
also that the inhabitants of the neighbourhood were not
entitled noon any just grounds to compensation.—( Hear,
heir.) He was very sorry that any individual etiould.
suffer loss, but it, changes and improvements of the kind
contemplate I, individual losses could not possibly be
prevented The Corporation of London hail a clam
over .
over the market within seven milt s ot St. Paul's, and he
was quite willies that the Cerparation should have the
tnanegeruent of the 11.-W weskit,. His opinion was, that
a Comusiseion should be nppoitred to a. r where a pro
per rite could be obtained. eotaideting ihst till the
eveiente went to show that Smithfield never could be
treacle a suiteble market, he conceived that a (Ji minis.
*ion should be appointed in concert with that Cerpora•
tion, and he thought an arrangement might be made
setisfacory to all psi tie,.
Mr. B. OiBORNE loss to explain, and said with re-
ference to what had been stand by his Noble Celleague
(Lord R. Grosvenor) as to the income of the Corpora
Lion for Smithfield—he (Mr. Osborne) held in his haul
a return according to which it appeared that the incense
of the Corporatism for Smithfield-market, in 1848 was
5,6411. 9s. 101.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord H. GROSVENOR said he was still of opinion
that if everything was taken into account the Corporation
of London did not receive one shilling of income from
Smithfield-marker,—( Hear, hear.)
Mr, AUGUS FITS STAFFORD said the question as
to the effects of the market upon the sanatory c .ndition
of the neighbourhood had been sufficiently established.
He thought many of the qiestions and answers might
fairly be termed superfluous, and that the report had
been unnecessarily swelled out in consequence. It was
to be observed that every year the supply of dead meat
brought into London was largelyinereaeed, and that fact
had not been taken into account. It was stated in one
of the resolutions that it was desirable that one great
cattle-market only should exist in London, and that re-
gard should be paid to have it near to a great railway
terminus. But he would remark that as it was proposed
not to touch private slaughter-houses, the evil complained
of by the existence of the market of Smithfield would not
be remedied by its removal, if private slaughter-houses
were still to be permitted to remain. He believed that
only a very few butchers in London were in favour of
the removal, He believed also that years ago the market
at Islington had been opened, and as ample space had
been provided it was thought that the butchers would
flock to it. A flaraitig prospectus had been issued, and
among the names of the patrons he found that of William
Mackinnon, m.l-3,
—(Hear.) But notwithstanding all
that had been provided, notwithstanding the fteming
prospectus, notwithstanding that his I lonouraale Friend
the Chairman of the Smithfield market Committee (Hr.
Mackinnon) figured as one of the trustees and honorary
directors, the butchers had not flocked to this new market,
and Smithfield had not been ruined as had been staid.
pated.—(Hear ) In regard to the cruelty part of the
question, it was said, that tying up cattle ih ring grooves}
as was down in Smithfield, was en set df ace et cruelty ;
but it was the facts that ifteMe cattle would not stand
anywhere else, and besides, Vie system was not now
nearly so much practised as it was wont to lee. Sheep
had been alluded to, and the cruelty practised to them;
but in the case referred to the sheep did hot eatcii the
disease in the market, for they had contracted it before
they came therO. No doubt there were cases in which
cruelty was exercised, but he enneideted that where
there were se many esttle it would be dttßcult to avoid
some cases of cruelty, and he did not see how in some in•
stances, they could be avoided. The cruelties perpetrated
in sueterranesn slaughter-houses, and the question as
to the bone-burners and tripe•trimmers, they had nothing
tO do with. They might be put down by legislative
enactment at present, but none of the parties who owned
these had ever been brought before a magistrate under
the Removal of Nuisances Act that he had ever heard of;
nor had any complaint ever been preferred against them.
One point had not bean alluded to during the debate, and
w
. hich he tanuelit important. Smith field was now used,
~a, temeelereba, eeteet, es a transit marker. Ceitle
....,:fleifi tee tae reei ways from the setecaltueel dio-
o.)-c ~i" ti :fig tr:,:eqe.rc
d
to other rh,,tri,,s, s„
1
Viet a continual transfer toek place
from the south to the north side of the water, and in that
resPeOt li large buss was now carried oa. In that.