The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-12 00:00:00

MPERI AL PARLIAMEN T.

HOUSE OF LORDS, lIIARcn 11.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at Five
o'clock.
The Secretary of the Chanceller presented certain papers
connected with the Bankruptcy Court, pursuant to order.
LONDON PENITENTIARY.
Mr. ORD presented a Report from the London Penitentiary,
pursuant to the Act.
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.
C
Mr. TooKE, accompanied by other Members of the House of
'-'oinmons, brought up a private Bill.—React a first time.
Mr. A. TREVOR and others, from the Commons, brought
up an Enclosure Bill.—Read a first time.
The Duke of CUSTAMPMBERLARND, inETURNI the absence of a Noble
Friend, moved for a return of the number of stamps issued to
country bankers from the year 1819 to the year 1835.—Ordered.
The Bills on the table were then forwarded a stage.
MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE presented a petition from
She Medical practitioners of Nottingham, praying that they
might be allowed compensation for their attendance at coroners'
inquests.

ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL.
The Bishop of LINCOLN presented a petition against the
Probate Clause in the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill.
Lord NV HA RNCLIFFE presented petitions from the
Proctors of York, Clifton, and several other places, on the
same subject, and with a similar prayer.
Tho Earl of RODEN gave notice of his intention to pre-
sent, on Monday next, a petition from the Archdiocese of
Tuam, of which be had before spoken.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE.—WEST
ILord GLENE LG rose to move the second reading of the
;3.11 for the better administration cf justice in the West
He might rest on the general notoriety which
tre,vailed of the mal-administration of justice in the NVcst
nuia Islands, but he would trouble their Lordships by
stating why this change was proposed. It was a subject
deeply affecting a great portion of his Majesty's subjects in
the Colonies ; and one material reason for the Bill was the
Want of qualification in the judges who now preside over the
courtsin these islands.---( Hear, hear.) The judges were
almost invariably connected with the suitors, and not
Very onfrequently bore a part in the quarrels which they
afterwards adjudicated upon. The Courts of Criminal and
Civil Jurisdiction were constituted under a Commission from
She Governor, under an Act of the Local Assembly. It was
issued, as in this country, from the Crown, but had its sanction.
°lle great disadvantage was, that in these Commissions there
Was no lawyer named to preside over the Courts, and from the
number of respectable persons upon it, few remained to act in
the Capacity of jurors, so that the effect was, the jurors
were generally comprised of individuals not of the most
intelligent class, and not unfrequently were connected
With the parties in the matter brought before them.—( Hear. )
'`9o greatest inconvenience followed from the state of the
Judicature of the country, and as an instance of that he would
mention that a few years ago three slaves were capitally convicted
for murdering their master. Nine of the judges advised the Go-
vernor that the conviction was good, and the lives of the slaves
aould not be spared; the Governor thought otherwise, and upon
Lee case being brought before the Courts of this country, the
convietien was declared illegal. The consequence of these
Lhiege, if they continued, would be the total disrespect of all
-Pf• If the state of the judicature in the West Indies
was looked into, it would be found to be placed on an ex-
ceedingly bad basis. The judges were multiplied in too great
slidegree, and many of them would be found to be but
ghtly,
if at all, conversant with the law. Such a state of
tvi gs called for amendment, and to give that amendment
was the object of the present Bill. The Noble Lord then
theat et some length through several documents, to show
alteredls that existed, and the means by which they might be
0.. In one of the documents it was stated that the Court
s;at-;)lancory in one of the West India Islands had been pre-
be Led es a nuisance. By the present Bill, the Courts would
constituted of three Judges, the two senior going the Circuit,
and the junior one transacting the business at home. By this
th means, he thought competent Judges would be obtained, and
0° administration of justice in the colonies properly carried
The funds now supplied by the colonies would be quite
07.tient for the purposes of the Bill, and therefore it should
13'3; u necessary to make any provision with respect to that.
Prothe measure they would have property protected, and law
perly administered. On these grounds, therefore, he now
The Earl of RIPON defended the conduct of the Govern-
ree„,of which be had been a member, in the course
)2* 3' had adopted with reference to this subject, and expressed
hie in the measure.
't he Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed.
The
House then adjourned.

-HOUSE OF COMMONS, 111.4Rai 11.
The SPEAKER took the Chair this day at four o'clock.
EAST INDIA COMPANY.
indkr. CAMPBELL brought up certain papers from the East
C°lllpany's Office, relating to Compensation Claims.
BRIGHTON AND LONDON RAILWAY.
yen7otir.,CI3AWFORD presented two petitions against Ste-
s !me of Railway, and praying to be heard by counsel
s'efore the Committee.
andLONDON AND CAMBRIDGE RAILWAY.
Cal°N. MEMBER presented a petition against the London
mbridge Railway Bill.
Mr n
tii; • OS
brought up the Reports on several private
.8, which were ordered to be read a first time.'
LorLONDON AND BRIGHTON RAILWAY.
4 d EASTNOR presented two petitions against
pons'Stevend-
,. and in favour of Sir John Rennie's, line of Railway, an
'trig to be heard by counsel or agents before the Committee.
Ste Ste ore G. LENNOX thought the petitions in favour
as well
thoseas renson's line shouM be referred to the Committee a
r,,..agains it. .
sides • BULLER was of opinion that the petitions on both
should go before the Committee.
0 The
SPEAKER (as we understood) thought that petitions
both sides should be referred to the Committee.
MIDDLESEX HOSPITAL INCORPORATION
BILL
ti the motion of Mr. TOOKE,. this Bill was read a third
'tie and passed.
LONDON AND BLACKWALL RAILWAY.
Mr. TOOKE presented a petition in favour of this Bill.
m MIDLAND COUNTIES RAILWAY.
pia 'r• R. TREVOR. presented a petition from Earl Lowe,
uiireg to be heard by Counsel, against the Midland Railway
,
Nv
""''S BRIGHTON AND LONDON RAILWAY.
-4Ptain ALSAGER, in naming the Committee on Ren-
R le's Direct London and Brighton Railway Bill, wished to
ev?;l,4 rely words in explanation of the course he had pursued,
- respect to referring the Brighton Railway to its present
ritnittee. It had been recommended that the different
0111 e 5 having the same termit.i should be referred to
poese same Committee.—(Hear.) To this he had pro-
r., d that the Committee should consist, in the instance
(10,.tite Brighton Railway, of the Surrey List, with the addition
IiBORIC of the Members of Sussex, and those Members resitl-
Zg at its termini. Amon,' those he had selected the four Mem-
-01 the City of London as being at one termini, and the
jeoebr'rll for Brighton, it being the other termini. The
ti e Lord
opposite had objected to that course, and as !he
i 1 seemed seemed to be against the name of Mr. Crawford being
lii4oerer.. on the Committee, he at once. gave. way. He. should,
rre, now propose that Rennie's direct London
.and
as Brighton,
Railway should be referred to the same Committee
i'4:2_,llov sitting, without any addition.
taken, G. LENNOX thought the Hon. Member was mis-
." It was the House, and not himself, that objected to
the
name of Mr. Crawford.
c
we„iePtain ALSAGER wished to know whether the House.
bor7l allow agents to have the. power of objecting to Mem-
Z---( A laugh.)
11 r. CRAWFORD said be was unwilling to take up the
ofmm the House, but- he really thought that the Com-
ailate bed overlooked a subject of great consideration,
ti his opinioa a great oversight had been committed. By
lis ride laid down, this Bill would be referred to the Sussex,
t erithough it would not pass through that county. It ought,
piZocies.:rlyietiy“fieorervvfeedartettoeiniticihteienresSgSurrey list, where the metropolitan Mem-
ted in the question, would have, an op.
whethle 1)F, A KER Said the queStion before the House was
the c'er the Bill be referred to the ComMittee appointed by
?"ussectleirisatu.f the House. The Bill was then referred to the
. EASTERN COUNTIES' .RAIL.WAY..
the er
_CLAY presented a petition from Spitalfields against
past gsLt'"n Counties Railway Bill, also petitions from the
0r
the ondon Waterwork Company ; the rate-payers
thoparish of St. .Georcre in vestry assembled ; the
iti,siricohwartlens and vestrymen *of Whitechapel, and the Com-
ners of Pavement in Goodman 's-fields,
rotou,',Rl meat
Commercial Railway. Also a petition
against
,the Lon-
inhabitants of Whitechapel against the London an
; petitions from 13romley, and the Company
iiiii%roerieturs of the East London Waterworks against the same
ft petition from the inhabitant householders
Ntit,l-;:' en against the Eastern Counties Railway Bill.'l'lieso
air na involved an important principle, which had not yet been
,itai,.nt under the consideration of the House ;
elineil_elportance did he (Mr. Clay) regard the principle to
indeed, of
the au le referred, that it was his intention to have moved for
I.olTeintment of a Select Committee to consider the subject.
iii:t..l,reieeiple involved in the various petitions which he had
wertl,r,iSentetl, and the statements which they all agreed upon
the he that no railroads should be permitted to come into
the,. ,:a.rt of
the metropolis—that however useful or necessary
iogilimri'ght be in a general point of view, yet all these-converg-
tropoe:s coming into and terminating in the heart of the me-
erooded trnght, if of sufficient number, destroy the most
was • 1",!(1 important parts of the city of London. That.
vi sead,.,l:rincaple totally distinct from the general utility of rail-
eW._
.t.heir comparative importance in a public point of
so 4M
-I_!t. was suggested whether these railroads, coming from
t„,,,,i'n",Y((llll:erent parts of the kingdom should not have their
T tamalesLwiutside the most crowded parts of the city.—( Hear.)
tle that these apprehensions were not ill-founded, and
(Nis. (-lay) Should
of the petitioners were not unreasonable, he
1)(1 if aY) should state to the House what the result would
torts °.‘se railroads were carried into effect in the crowded
h blue metropolis. He in that calculation alluded only
loodeor_uegh which he had the honour to represent, We city
effectf to which he was about to call the at-
f the House was only as to the destruction of property
At '1 t r o ties Royal Exchange ; beyond the circle
'nit of ti4"1113 the inquiry had not been extended—the re.
l'elu'd 1 'e
inquiry Was tl t these projected railroads had
tt
t()% tuLei down nao less than 5,934 houses and

tenements ; in round numbers they had asked per
of Parliament to turn out—allowing five persons to each
house—not less than 30,000 householders.--(Hear, hear.)
He knew that it might be said that those who were to be so
turned out would receive compensation. He ( Mr. Clay) de-
nied that they could receive compensation. It would be im-
possible for any compensation to make up for the loss of those
residences in which they had lived so long, with the esteem and
approbation of their fellow-citizens. There was hardly an
instance of sufficient compensation having been given for the
injury received, but the greatest injury was likely to be, the
diverting of the great lines of traffic ; and if all these rail-
roads were carried into effect, the thoroughfares of White-
chapel, Aldgate, and the Commercial-road, which were
now so prosperous, would be completely deserted, and there
would be grass growing in their streets.—( Hear.) It was
said that the parties might oppose those Bills before the pri-
vate Committees. That was nothing but a mockery, as it would
be impossible to do so without funds. These parties had not
a right to touch a farthing of the rates for such a purpose, and
it was as great a mockery as to say to a starving man, if you
want a dinner, go to the London Tavern. The objection
was, in his mind, of the greatest weight and importance as
applied to the question of railways.—( Hear.) The objection
was at all times of elle greatest importance, but more partieu-

larly so at the present moment, when there was such a mor-
bid excitement at the present time on the subject.
The question was indeed worthy of the attention of the House,
for the public mind was in a state of very great excitement
upon it. They knew that there were fifty-seven railway pro.
jects before the House, involving an expenditure of not less
than 28,000,0001. He had made inquiry and be found that
what with canals, waterworks, &c., the projects amounted to
108, while the expenditure involved was 33,500,0001. The
public naturally thought that this too much resembled the too
memorable year 1825. Every one connected with the City knew
there were many persons who had no connee,tion with business now
selling annuities and other means of livelihood, for the purpose
of embarking their all in the speculations. Considering all
these things, he thought Members of that House would only
be doing their duty in looking most narrowly -to see whether
these projects were wanted or not. In the time of a great
convulsion, in the time of pressure and distress, they might
have to blame themselves for the waste of capital, and
their's might be the fault, from so much misdirected energy.
Mr. GROTE said he had three petitions to present on the
same subject.
The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Gentleman that he
was out of 'order.

Mr. GROTE trusted, that if he might not present his pe-

, . .
titions, he might be allowed to express his perfect concurrence
in what had fallen from his Hon. Friend the Member for the
Tower Hamlets. The feeling of alarm was very strong in
those parts of the city from whence these petitions came, espe-
cially with regard to the London and Blackwell Railway, and
the Commercial Railway. They would depopulate a great part of
the parishes in question, and they were unnecessary ; for there
was already a good tram road laid down upon which one horse
could draw 10 tons of goods. One reason against them was
that they would not only injure those who were compelled to re-
move, but by their transplantation, it would produce utter im-
poverishment to those who were left. The House would see
that the passing of these Bills would, be a great calamity to
the parishes in the east of London, and he trusted the House
would see that there would be a commensurate advantage be-
fore agreeing to them.
Mr. HUME had been waited upon by many deputations
from those districts, and many of his constituents said if these
Railways were brought into London, they would be ruinous to
them altogether.--( Hear.) He had hoped, as the Government
had taken up the question, that something would have
been done, by which all parties might have been satisfied ;
and he had advised his Honourable Friend to speak to
the Ministry upon the question, for it was a peculiar
case, and was deserving of a particular remedy. The
parties had not funds to meet those who fought with
a joint-stock purse. The subject must be specially brought
before the House, otherwise he did not know what could be
done. Friend as he was to railways, he thought the peti-
tioners had made out a good case, and he hoped it would
receive consideration.

The SPEAKER begged to call the attention of the House
to the inconvenient practice they were now getting into on the
presentation of petitions. Whatever objections there might be
to bringing Railways into London ought to be urged in the
Committee. .

.....
Mr. HUME felt fully the weight of the observations that
fell from the Speaker, but it was an imperative duty on his
part which he owed to his constituents to call the attention of
the House to the subject.
Mr. HAWES hoped that before the Bills came before the
House, his Majesty's Government would have an opportunity
of considering them. All he asked was, that as the metropolis
was very much interested in the subject, that it would be taken
into the early consideration of Government.
Dr. LUSHINGTON had five petitions to present on the
same subject. After what had fallen from his Hon. Colleague,
and other Hon. Members who had spoken, it was not neces-
sary for him to trespass on the time of the House—( Hear,
hear)—except—( Cries of "Oh oh 1 ")—to state that, what-
ever might be the result of the Committee up stairs, he should
feel it his duty to bring the subject under the consideration of
the House, and unless he saw a change in their opinion, he
would undoubtedly move the rejection of the Bill.--( Hear.)
The petitions were then laid on the table.
SOUTH DURHAM RAILROAD.

On the motion of Mr. BOWES this Bill was read a second
time.

Mr. GROTE presented two petitions against the London
and Commercial Railway Bill, and the London and Black-
wall
Railway Bill.
Mr. BROCKLEHURST presented a petition against the
Bristol and Exeter Railway Bill.
LONDON & DUBLIN STEAM NAVIGATION BILL.
Mr. O'CONNELL moved. the second reading of the Lon.
don and Dublin Steam Navigation Bill.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG opposed the second reading of the
Bill, as it was a measure for giving increased powers to a
Company that at present existed. It was an Act to enable
a Company to carry into effect and operation that which was
within the scope of private individuals ; such being the fact,
in his opinion it was calculated to do essential injury. Nothing
in his opinion could be more. obnoxious to every principle of
justice than the present Bill; he would therefore move that it
be read this day six months.
Mr. WI LK S supported the amendment. The present Com-
pany had obtained two Bills by which they were enabled to
raise a capital of SOO,OOO/. If the object of the present Bill
was to increase their capital, he for one would not object to it ;
but not content with the powers they derived under these two
Bills, the Company now sought to have themselves incorporated,
and to be empowered to sue and be sued under a common seal.
The reason given for this was, that they could not contract
for his Majesty's mails without such an act of incorporation.
Now he (Mr. Wilks) did not consider this reason by any
means a valid one, and he must therefore be under the neces-
sity of opposing the Bill.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that some gentlemen might have
private interests at variance with the present measure ; he did
not of course allude to the Hon. Member for Teignmouth.
Now for his part ho did not think the incorporation should be
acceded to unless it should be found useful, and if it was so, he
did not sec why the Bill should be resisted. Two English com-
panies were established, the first in 1813, called the British
and Colonial, and another in 1834. But the present Com-
pany was an Irish one, which perhaps might be the ground of
objection. Now he would state the reason why this act of'
incorporation was rendered necessary. It was very well
known that in a short time Government would give
up having packets of their own, because this Company
could .carry the mails for one half of the expense.
Many Members of Parliament were members of this Company,
every one of whom would forfeit a very large sum of money
besides their scat in that House, if this Company contracted
with the Government for carrying the mails.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROBINSON would like to know from the President
of the. Board of Trade whether he thought the Bill ought to
pass , • • if he did, he (Mr. R ) should vote for the second read-
ing and consider it in Committee.
Mr. POUL ETT THOMSON had considered the de-
tails of the Bill as well as he was able, and
there were provisions in the Bill to which be should
most seriously object—those were the extinction of land car-
riage, and the power to borrow money on mortgage.—( Hear,
hear.) He should vote for the second reading, and if those
alterations were not made in Committee, he should certainly
vote against •the third reading.
Mr. WALL ACE should vote against the second reading of
the Bill. If the Company obfained the powers they sought,
the result would be, that they would have given to them a great
monopoly, and it was upon the principle that no monopoly ought
to be sanctioned by the House, that lie stood tip to oppose the
second reading. No man was more desirous for the prosperity of
Ireland than himself. Ile would like to see the Shannon
covered with vessels ; but the prosperity of Ireland did
not depend upon giving to one Company a monopoly. With
regard to their being contractors for the mail, he was very
much mistaken if they had not already contracted for the mail,
and if so, they were at that moment doing what was illegal.
hadses
saellracoand)trhsetaatteadekt
so
ready
vMteomtbackres
;t
they
yt hitely
Ile objected to that Company having such a check over all
d
othera
t(;roirnoupsaen itehsa
up that trade the moment the power was given to them. On
these grounds he should certainly support the proposition of
the Hon. Member for Teignmouth, that the Bill be read a
second time that day six months.

Mr. O'CO NNE LI would acquit the Hon. Member of any
intention of wilfully misrepresenting facts; but he had been
misinformed in stating that the Company had the contract—
they bad no connection with it.
Sir H. PARNELL supported the Bill, as one in which
his constituents were deeply interested.
Ca. PE RC EVA L did not doubt the sincerity of the Hon.
Member for Greenock, vvlien he professed his anxiety to pro-
mote the interests of Ireland
i ; but he felt disposed to ques.
tion that anxiety when the interests of Scotland were put in
competition with it.—( Hear and laughter.) He was sure
the Honourable Member would very naturally give a pre-
ference to Scotland in all cases.—( Hear, hear.) He trusted
the House would allow the Bill to be read a second time, as
the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of
Trade had acquiesced in the Bill going into Committee, with
a view to the removal of any clauses that might appear 01-
jectionable.
An Hort. MESIBF.R on the opposite Bench, whose name we
could hear, also supported the Bill.
Mr. POTTER hoped the lion. Member for Teignmouth
would allow the Bill to pass a second reading—and suggested
that he should withdraw his amendment.—( Hear.)
Mr. W. ROC HE bore testimony to the honourable manner
in which the Company has always conducted its business. He
should be the last to i
give the Bill his support if he did not
believe that it would be 'generally beneficial. The Company
had, in his opinion, made out a prima facie C 530 to receive
the support of that Douse.