The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-04 00:00:00

SCOTCH REFORM BILL.

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On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, " That the Chairman do
leave ti!:ie chair, and the House go into a Committee on the Scotch
Reform WI,"
Sir W. RAE declared his decided ohjeetion to many parts of
the Bill. His principal objection to it was, because it would over-
whelm the whole landed interest, and give the entire and exclu-
sive representation to the house owners and manufacturing inte-
rests.—(Hear.) He objected to the piinciple of the Bill, as well
as to most of its details ; and thoirgh he did not mean to assert
that the representation of Scotland was istall perfect, and that it
might not be greatly improved,
.yet, admitt4ig that, it was the
duty of those who introduced a measure of this momentous kind
to take care that it should be the best possible that human inge-
nuity could devise.—(Hear.) [i.e had heard it pronounced by an
Hon. Member in that House, that Scotland was without a repre-
sentation. He denied it, and asserted that there was a constitu-
ency of property and respectability, though. he did not, mean to
say there was a popular representation.—(Hear, arid g ;anti.)
The last election at Forfar proved by the voting, how fairlf and
equally the constituent right was balanced, and he was positive
that the present measure had not originated with either the wants
or the wishes of the people of Scotland.--(llear.)
Mr. CUTLA It FERGURSON said, though lie most heartily
supported the. Bill, he regretted that the counties hail not a
larger share in the representation,—(Hear.) He thought the
fair proportion of county and borough Members should be as
three to two. Some of the details of the Bill might be improved
he did not deny ; but the principle of the Hilt was unobjection-
able, and took away an influence which had long beep exercised
to the injury of the people.—(Hear.) The Hon. Menther who
spoke last had attacked the Bill for giving a franchise to the owner
of land value Rd. a year ; and he (Mr. Y.) might have entertained
some objection to it, had not the Bill, as a counterpoise, given a
vote to another class—the owners olliouses of 10/. yearly rent,
which would neutralise the aristocratic inAltlence of the great
landowners creer their tenants.—(Hear.) If the Ita>>i p.aSSed with
the clauses giving the power he had described, he was eenfideid
there need be no fear that the landed interests would not be as
fully represented in this House as ever they were under the
present system. The Hon Getitionan said, that although he
would not go so far as to state that the present Members
for Scotland were generally the mere representatives of paper,
yet he with shame confessed that they had An thirty-two
different motions for Befonn and retrenchment, Layariably
voted against those mearuiret.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He knew
that some of the Members did not vote so by choice, but they had
been sent there to speak the voice of some great person, and
were under the necessity of voting as lip pleased.—(Hear.) He
contended that the present representative sys:egi in Scotland had
not worked well for that country ; in fact, it had po defenders
now, and it was high time it was ainended—(Heari—aag a sys-
tem adopted more suitable to the present state of society„-ind
more congenial to the liberal and enlightened age in which we
live,.—(Hear.) The middling and lower classes had unjustly
been excluded from the representation, end paper representation
had caused the return of Members who had resiskyj every species
of Reform, and who had inveriably opposed every no*.wre tend-
ing to the amelioration of the PtAblie burdens. He hoped to god
the House of Lords would pass the -Bill without any delays-sit
coidd not be delayed for long—its triumph in the end was
certain,Cheers.)
Mr. G. BRUCE (as we understood) opposed thg Bill. He said
the Members for-Scotland who were adverse to the ;7;,0 Aare had
been charged with being silentduring the discussion. goauM
not hesitate to glee his opinion rang the
the measure. The
original represe.ntation of Scotland hait been founded on property
—it had been guaranteed hi the Union, arid could not be altered
without a violation of that solemn compact. Tne present Bill, if
carried, went to deprive the heritors of their rights, he re-
peated, was a gross violation of the het of Union. He via; also
of opinion, that the household voters wo4leverwhelm the landed
and,superier interest.—would infringe upon the vested rights of
the most respectable portion of the commun4, :041 producccon.
sequences that could not be anticipated without the uthapat alarm.
For these and other reasons he should vote against the Wiwi; re.
Mr. C. BRUCE said he would dgfend the Scotch represep-
tatives from the sweeping attacks of his, Ferguson as to the
votes which they had given on the question el Reform. He
thought the census was ill-timed at this moment, when he could
but observe that the majority of the Scotch representatives were
sitting on the Ministerial Benthes.—fHear, and a laugh.) Ile
was not surprised at observing the cbdriga, for political tergiver_
sation and apostasy were at a premium in iSeettand as well as in
England.—(Hear.) . He totally disagreed With the arguments of
ti:e Lord Advocate, who had not at all demonstrated that the
or practicable.—(Hear.)
.He
measure was either just,
.expedient,
Scotland, to " fright
&pre cated the sending Ceminissieners to
the boroughs from their propru2ty,"....cA
gt 2 The Bill
went too far to be safe to lIM existing institu-
tionshut the
in his (gluon,
o ;le countr y. He wasietneutra- hostile
vo_ .Rr g
Bill went 'td,,effeet
tasted to thedieranchaisecirenPt the. liaLite_2_rs ion..
to•the --ossesSor.
.He frim,,h4e.
tic that tre-

chise to those who from their property and intelligence Were en-
titled to a representation. It was nonsense to compare Scbtland
as it Was now with what it was before and at the Union. There
was a period when different towns and boroughs in Scotland
were not able to pay the expellees of sending representatives n
that House ; but that was no reason why large, populous, and
wealthy places should now be disfranchised. The county which
he had the honour of representing at the time of the Union con-
tained only 22,000 inhabitants, and now there were 120,000.—
;Hear.) It was, therefore, necessary that some arrangement
should take place suitable to the altered circumstances of the
country, It was important that an adjustment should take place
without delay, for nothing on earth could stop the progress of a
measure which was anxiously desired by the people, and which
alone could save the country from a convulsion.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUNT took that opportunity of explaining what he had
said on a former night respecting the Lord Advocate of Scotland
having availed himself of the assistance of the Radicals at his late
election ; and he charged the Times newspaper with publishing
a barefaced premeditated falsehood on the subject.—(Hear.)
Mr. P. M. STEWART said, he would not to attempt to go
through the vast and varied speeches of the Hon. Members for
Selkirk and Nairn, except to contradict those assertions which
declared the tenantry of Scotland adverse to their own' enfran-
chisement, and the people indifferent to the fate of the Bill.—
( Hear, hear.) One cheering inference might be drawn from this
debate, which was, that we were all Reformers at last—and that
whatever might be the fate of the letter of the Bill, its spirit—
the spirit of actual and ample Reform in the representation of the
people and property of the country—was secured beyond all ha.
zard.—(Cheers ) The large majority on the second reading
proved this ; and still more, the accession to that majority of
some hitherto staunch opponents of the measure. Among them
the Hon. Member for Honiton (Sir George Warrender) appeared
—like another Georgium Sidus—(Laughter)—discovered lately as
belonging to our system ; not a fixed star, but a planet whose
distance and eccentric movements had baffled calculation, but
hich now shed a direct ray upon the prosperity of our cause.—
(Great laughter.) He had hoped for other such enlistments in
support of the principle of the Bill, which went to remedy de-
fects too notorious to be denied. It did not disfranchise, but ex-
tended representation, and established, he might say, the elective
franchise in Scotland, where it scarcely now existed.—(Hear )
The privilege of exerting a free choice—which he understood to
he the definition of elective franchise—was of very rare occur•
rence there, and the consequence was, that there was not one
Hon. Member now present who could be properly styled the re-
presentative of any considerable portion of the people. The re.
suit of the last contests showed that the Hon. Gentlemen were
Members for these boroughs, and different districts, but not re-
presentatives of the people or property.—(Heart hear.) With
such a mock constituency it could not be otherwise, as had been
forcibly shown by the Lord Advocate, in his able and eloquent
introduction to the Bill. • Counties might be represented by
those who had no interest whatever in the land, and the bo-
roughs by those who had no connection with the people.—
This was the 'sentiment expressed by one whose memory must
be respected by every constitutional Reformer—he meant the
late Lord Archibald Hamilton—whose place no Scotch Re-
former could regard at this crisis, without feeling the magnitude
of the loss the cause had sustained in him.—(Hear, hear.) The
• destruction of the political power of Town Councils was the
clearance of a great evil. The hollow mockery of the present
system should have proved the sincerity of professions by being
generally denounced; but the Bill, like Ithuriel's spear, carried
a test along with its touch, and separated the pretending from
the real Reforiher:—'Cheers.) To support the Bill here was to
encumber it with help ; bnt he offered his ardent wishes for its
success elsewhere.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped it would be re-
membered, that " a kingdom divided against itself must come
to desolation ;" and he hoped that a Reverend Body, whose opi.
nions were of vast importance he was told, would remember
that distinguished supporters of the Church have often proved
themselves the advocates of popular rights and liberty ; and
that the great Charter itself, and afterwards the Petition of
Rights, were mainly secured by the enlightened zeal and ardent
' support of Archbishops Langton and Abbot.—(Great cheers.)
The Petition of Rights would have been modified and abridged
by the Lords but for the agency of Bishop Abbot.—(Cheers.)
He denied thatthis measure, as had been said, identified loyalty
to the King with hostility to the Constitution. Our patriot
King would not receive the offering on such terms.—(Hear.)
He gave it his sincere support as a measure of vital value to the
country, inasmuch as it restored the franchise to its true basis,
property—and this House to its proper constituency, the people.
Mr. 'MILLER spoke in favour of the Bill, and expressed his
surprise that any one should have asserted that the people of
Scotland were not in favour the measure.—(Hear, hear.) He
knew it would be dangerous to delay it any longer.—(Hear.) He
approved of the ten-pound franchise, and he was contident that,
under the new Bill, the constituent body would possess a larger
amount of property than the present constituency. Though 10/.
were the qualification, yet the majority f voters would possess a
larger property; for they were an industrious, saving people, and
there Would be but few who would not be able to obtain a tell.
pottnd franchise. He believed the measure was calculated to
effect a great benefit in the country, and he anticipated with the
most lively satisfaction its passing into a law.—(Cheers.)
Sir GEORGE MURRAY objected to the Bill on principle,
especially that part that divided one county and added it to an-
other, and unless some strong case of necessity was pointed out,
it ought to be abstained from. Ile approved of the division of the
county of York, because it would render the mode of election
more convenient to the electors. No one could approve of the
taking away a portion of Huntingdon and addingit to Cambridge,
yet such was the plan proposed in the Bill regarding sonic of the
Scotch counties. He had no objection to the junction of two
small counties to return two Members, but he objected to the
severing one part of a county and annexing it to another county,
merely for election concerns, though it remained separate and
distinct in every other respect.—(Hear.)
Mr. H. CAMPBELL supported the Bill, and Mr. PRINGLE
and another MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, said a
few words, when
Lord A LTHORP moved the postponement of the discussion
upon the Bill till this day, which was agreed to.
The House proceeded to the orders of the day, and having dis.
posed of them, adjourned at Two o'clock this morning.

presentation to the possessor.
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ment of 101.' householders, an l:C i-vo-plapsSert Wig the vrtic-d
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land, and if it were persisted ill Sallie
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