The Sun.
London, England, 1836-04-15 00:00:00

-----..-.r--------------------;",„„ and yet,
the world, notwithstanding the existence of floggi .9
strange to say, it was proposed to abolish flogging ..nn
render it more effective.—( Hear, hear.) Now, I
justice and fair reasoning, the lion. Gentlemen who
abolition were bound to devise sonic effective substi
itndis".:
order to keep up discipline, which they admitted
A "5
selves
with
: yet, strange to say, they contented theca .
co using
with mere declamation against flogging- with P
- member
a retnedy.—( Cheers.) The arguments of the
degra'
for Dublin were founded on the cruelty, on the
feeling
dation, of the punishment, and on the popular
, „golly
about it. The Honourable Member spoke as ne
vehement
spoke. He fancied grievances, he substituted ,
~..0
assertions for true arguments, and spoke more eloquenttyr :30;
; oc rodme i
nr
ot
no
logically.—( Loud cheers.) When the Hon.
canted in so declamatory a straits on the sufferings of the
t,
but e a
dier he should not dam up the current of his humanitY,
should bear in his benevolent contemplation the incaleultnoblc..
sufferings of many others, which the punishment of Theßee i 'l'
the
soldiery was calculated to prevent.—( Cheers.) ll°ll.
byshed
Member made allusion to the punishments inflicted
Duke of Wellington in the Peninsula. The troops Punt like
by order of the Duke of Wellington were raw levies' _ci it
those of Colonel Evans, which the Gallant Colonel fon.
to
necessary to punish with no less severity : yet, sing: aGaj..
Gal-
say, the ire of the Hon. Member was exhausted on th
0.......
lant Duke, while he spared his friend Colonel Eva.
was
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter.) But wilr t
the fact as regarded the army of the Noble Duke ? At to
commencement of the war on the march from Talaverault.,
Portugal, through a friendly country, the soldiers were 1 -1.
necessary
to of the greatest excesses, which it was found ,_en
to punish, and so salutary was the effect of the punishin
! e_.
et et
that when those very troops afterwards marched°
France, into an enemy's country, so orderly was their c,r7erlands
that they were looked on by the inhabitants rather as 1 Lien.
The
~r a
and protectors than invading foes.—(Cheers.)
Member complained that corporal punishment was fit onlY ".'n a
dog. But surely it was not more so than to shut a man up,' s
cell like a wild beast, or send him, like a slave, to the gahe_Y„'
or to the treadmill.—( Hear, hear.) He imagined there
c.wse'l,
few gentlemen in that House who were not flogged a s 75,
and at a period of life when their susceptibilities were 17f0
acute, and they did not think themselves degraded in after
a„
by it.—( Hear.) The evidence of officers and soldiers was “
against the punishment. Yet he did riot mean to deny th,att it're
pular opinion was deserving of a due degree of weight, °Noble
report, containing valuable evidence, had induced the :eh be
Lord opposite to say—and it was a sentiment in urn', band
agreed—,, If you abolish punishment to-day you mai disemn-
your army to-morrow."—( Hear, hear. ) He had heard a des.
parison drawn between the English and foreignauxin
we
But if we removed from our army what they had
must be
must replace it by what they had. Conscription ami
established, and tear the soldier away from his family said
(so
friends. All aristocratical pretensions must be abolishe eor
offensive to some Hon. Gentlemen opposite), and tbe son to
the peasant and the son of the banker must be alike liable
Ben-
serve. It was in 1834 that the Noble Lord (Lord W.
d the
tinck), the late Governor-General of India, first conee;:e„,ted
plan of abolishing corporal punishment in India, and
worieeth;
circulars to the officers to inquire into the possibility
abolition, and every one of which officers, without an e‘,
-t-lo
tion, opposed it. On the 16th of February, 1835, the Noble
meanidbc.vtuot.cee,tseo:d
Lord prepared a minute to be laid on the table of the C°l3o,
Board, stating the great difference existing between the t
gal, Madras, and Bombay armies ; but as there was „le o
no data ci
show the constitution of the different armies, or the nt,,„" atioa
discipline in each adopted, he determined thatsuch infer"-
he-
should remain with a recommendation from himself, for the fore
nefit of his successors. On the 24th of the same month, hbeeetie
any further information could be obtained, and when enut 16414
of quitting the country, and contrary to his minute of be solo-
tti
riuoraentte.
he abolished the punishment and rescinded his former re, ace
r—di e
%(.
baHyb el
ea
ther-)
step,
bestl, nyhdi
pco
hoi ns ghs
iebslofee tahrmeeodNt
imvo
ebi
might
e,h
tbLpuortrodvbeneo doubt
.Zll ao
olifafaatatrc°llsosce;
quences. But in 1825 we had fatal experience in 1061
army. It was in that year that a clause was first in..tiro mass_
into the Mutiny Bill allowing imprisonment in certain era IP
instead of flogging. In the subsequent four or five. i.Ynte eatA
had not the effect of diminishing the number of punis, .s/ to
In 1829 power was given to Regimental Courts-Ma.ntid ig
imprison, according to certain regulations laid down' and
1830 a letter was issued from the Horse Guards most here
rially diminishing the punishment. Now, from 18,2"„Oorty
were in the army 98,944 men ; there were 4,70 n stbere
martial, and 1,737 corporal punishments. In 18291 and
were in the army 103,746 men, 4,782 courts-mortis ,e 0
1,748 corporal punishments. So that in four or five loot
there was no increase of punishment. But in the subeelbeec
five years there were results from which no one could °their
drawing an inference, and he thought all would make °Pof JO,'
minds, and cease to protest against the present system -ri. re
cipline. In 1829 the army consisted of 103,040 It 'ors
1834, of 103,063; in 1829, the number of punishrneni py
1,748, and in 1834, 963, making a saving of 700 corper:7o.
nishments ; but in 1829 the number of offences were
and in 1834, 10,241. So that if we were to proceed 0~01
same ratio, and offences were to increase, and erlthea
punishments diminish, in the course of ten years from thnhorr
there would not be a man left of the .present arrny---('"there
lhleaadr.b)eenhatnadincicirtieoansetoof th67ofoaoctputnhiasti'ldmuernintsg, thitisoptigerbtercint.o:l
‘: tile
forgotten that the same individuals on whom punishrnen; des•
inflicted, inflicted some punishment also on their enr_ta the
His Hon. and Gallant Friend who had brought forWal; aid
motion had done it on the only ground upon which i- If
be rationally entertained, namely, that of total abolitle„-h.ouln
abolition was necessary at all, itnecessary was that it ,t; pa
be total. He did not, however, say therefore, from t"-whela
of argument he adopted, that the time might not emlieed with
corporal punishment might be abolished. He conetirrd a. bet,
those that thought there might be a time for its eess,a,;:nisbe'.
not its extinction by the Legislature. It might be elt"troWP'
in a far better manner. The present Ministers of the „0 Art
in obedience to popular opinion, had previously: passe', -0., the
to pay twenty millions to save the back of the negro IT? h 501"
lash. Let th€m act in the same spirit towards the $r
et the
dier, or their humanity would be laughed to scorn. Peri their
offences
be to the soldier the greatest punishment, an be aidi
would then become gradually•
of legislation. &Piet
Lord W. BENTINCK defended the course be „aprsto,
extinct without t
with regard to the native Indian army. He was nlabr,
to say that, with respect to Madras and the army there' a wit''
been seven years resident there, and was well acquahatebot he
it, as with Bengal, but in Bombay he had not beeni; sepol9'
knew that the army had among them 12,000 Benga.,,, of th,er
That it, was from a profound conviction of the proprlet,d, and
abolition of punishment of flogging that he bad a teentri ill
that he considered the safety of the empire of this e soot
India mainly depended on the attachment of the rat'v
attach "
and that lie believed nothing would tend so much to
sbmeet-
and secure its allegiance as the abolition of this PT/laded te'
%te Los,
With respect to the same indulgence not being.e
the British army, he did not consider that discretion or slmold
nity required it. He saw no reason why 120,000 men. not 0
continue subject to an infliction because 20,000 wer'et jt'
well behaved. He thought the censure applied wing:that bite
We understood the Noble Lord to conclude by saYigt aorkl
did recommend the abolition of floggine- in the grit
too
to the Board of Council, but that the.reason
characters dationsl"-
w
as not attended to was that the charac
there were of such an incorrigible kind. it neitili
omfensutscl7aesrseeertqltioanl, bhuetwfoorultdhereoffferentcoe
Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD contended that a,..ri: pro°
of the Pi
lory, which, although a most infamous punishment,..s WO/
public opinion be made a triumph. On account of
what
ecni;
the
it was confined only to the crime of perjury, and ; aces li
sioned the abolition of the punishment for other o
,e_,_ebrene!
then Member for Westminster, The Hon.
the sentenced passed on a Gallant Officer, Lord l'uof tlia''
ion be
Gallant Officer (Sir F. Burdett) said on that occasid 00
the
thought the punishment no disgrace, and be "'nth of this re
side him while he endured it. While speaking ..00et of
Colleae that
wish could not but cross his mind that that Hon. .az ~00,ere,,
again present among them, reviving them with tbehitn' a d no;
that youthful eloquence for which the nation owed eould33,_„elea
of gratitude that nothing could extinguish—that it bild v,so
repay. He was glad to find that some concessiol;l
,iOO it r.
_A
made on this subject. He thought that in the inthe'l,„netiat'
not the mercy of man, but another Mediator, that steriasbes,'
Oral d that
stayed the lash, which, instead of being two bu s, an
he should call one thousand eight hundred filed.e Ile 11;
exhausted nature was often the sufferer's best arrive what
ora
juiced in the belief that a period would speedilY oisillne
the disgraceful and degrading system of corpl pn
: bed foil
would be altogether abolished. r. ..., 1.5 ate
Mr. C. BERKELEY denied that the sold'
ated bY at
the abolition of corporal punishment, as had been st ficer, an
Hon. Members who hadarguedin favour of it' ice, an
ate
laughter.) He had been fifteen years in the s rlaeetinilii.,
had had in that period opportunities of knovring the his asse
t 0f,,00-
the soldiery. He would state one fact in sure
against A -0,
tion. When a soldier committed any offence f his fell? 00,,
rade, he was usually tried by a Court and JurY n__ oteriett-le
soldiers, presided over by the senior private o_s unifortteii.
corporal punishment of so severe a character w"
resorted to, that the Commander- s ultiina the'
obliged to discontinue the custom by a eircu ~,,,,) res .0
Horse Guards. On that fact he (Mr. C. BerkTia'yerse'
that
his assertion, that the soldiers themselves were nsuro say, oa
Commander-in-Chief Chief viler froM tea
if the whole British army were marched past
corporal punishment—nay, he would go so far a !louse' 00
that
.ority world
0,
beacclfloumnadn
iwnafsavdirectedtporesgeirvveinbgis
tohpeinion , a ritaJerporal P
power °I. c geln be
m
nishent
W . al
1, n- oor
Mr. A KLE Y said that to contend, as the lio
of eel.' or'.
who spoke last did, that soldiers were in favorn ~,et be
_,..
and degr
teud to it'soffi••
punishment, was to make a proposition so absu unable my
sqeumitbelays.tonFislhoegdgiiitigshboaudldsobedesinubomrailtitseedd to any rea.tect the a' if
had been told that
that in one year alone 10,000 men were suh.j_e and itstrouo
that was not a proof of its inefficiency for gnu The .• re.
eieney for evil, he did not know what was so-,__A been
..rof
the quantity of pu 0 Lash es NON
duced, and that instead of 9,000, only 1,80 , fact. L. re'
inflicted ; that was the true way of putting tileeder tP' two
less t'- Phis'
what happened within the last twelve months n ban
duced were n°
scale ? Within that period there .
~e woofs 50.
deaths from flogging in the neighbourhood ott, the
that it Tt'at the
11 belief t rteo.
—(Cries of no, and bear.) He maintains
flOgb
was
He had examined the bodies, and it was his fu
then 't el
not been IA i
men would be now living if they had . After _ . A
- • nishrnent 1.,..,
were
—(Hear.) So much for the reduced scale. , ht offen.ee aila
to the 6° said
continuance of it would be at once unjustit
had been - anisl"
disgraceful to the country. —( Hear.)
of this cruel f,t, and
the infliction of capital punishment for a SLIP Idler hif
Hon. Members opposed to the abolition
we _
Cotjedigerla o-
elect titue that
some averse, to it. But let a general
heir cunt e t
morrow—let those Hon. Members tell t
merit, that a large portion of the public
Wel) Was quite stir
from the hustings and he (Mr. Wa on take .P nts 0