The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-07 00:00:00

- -
IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT•

'HOUSE OF LORDS, July 6.
Their Lordships assembled at Five o'clock.
The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition in
favour of the Servants' Provident Society's Bill.
The Earl of LYTTELTON presented several peti-
tions in favour of the Protection to Women Bill.
The following Bills were respectively read and passed
through Committee, on the motion of Earl GRAN-
VILLE:—The Loan Societies Bill, the Assaults (Ire-
land) Bill, the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction Bill, the Soap
Allowances Bill, and the Sheriff of Westmorland Bill.

PRISON DISCIPLINE.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Dr.
Rice on the subject of prison discipline. The Noble and
Learned Lord then proceeded to move the following
resolutions on the subject of imprisonment:—
" 1. That the legitimate object of all imprisonment
for offences being to detain persons committed until trial,
and persons convicted for punishment, or until trans-
ported, or until executed, it is a matter both of justice
and sound policy that due means should be afforded in
every prison of classifying prisoners, so as to keep those
who are detained for trial apart from those who are
detained after conviction.
" 2. That it is further expedient to provide the means
of separating different classes of prisoners, especially
keeping the young apart from the old offenders; and
that, a perfect system of prison discipline woul also
afford the means of further classifying prisoners both
before and after trial.
" 3. That the food, raiment, and lodging of prisoners
after trial ought to be on the lociest scale of expense
aril of comfort consistent with the safe custody and the
health of the prisoners.
" 4. That the object of punishment being.the diminu-
tion of crime, and the means thereto being example and
reformation, so much labour should be exacted from con-
victs as shall make every prison a place of terror to the
indolent, and at the same time a school for teaching in-
dustrious habits.
" 5. That the economy of prisons further requires
such aid to the public funds as may bo obtained from
prison labour.
" 6. That such branches of industry only should be
cultivated in prisons as do not interfere with the indus-
trious poor in their callings.
" 7. That it appears expedient, whenever possible, to
connect with the prison a piece of ground which may be
laboured by the prisoners, in order to raise such produce
as can most beneficially be obtained from the soil and
their work.
" 8. That subject to the limitation in resolution 6,
when agricultural or horticultural labour is inconvenient
or impossible working at, manufactures or handicrafts
should ba required as part of the prison discipline.
" 9. That with a view to punishment as well as refor-
mation, separation with labour should in proper cases be
effected, but not solitary confinement, unless for prison
offences and for short periods of time.
" 10. That both with a view to economy and to
punishment deterring and reforming, it is expedient to
award time sentences, with compulsory labour, instead
of time sentences only, and to make the duration of
imprisonment and the quality of diet depend upon the
prisoner's conduct and the amount of his labour, due
regard being had to the differences of sex, age, and
strength.
" 11. That in all prisons due attention should be
always given to religious and moral instruction, and
a proper provision of useful books be made.
"12. That as in all prisons the reformation
of prisoners depends more on the zeal and
knowledge of the officers tban on rules and mechanical
arrangements, it is of the highest importance to select
such officers with great care, and so remunerate them as
to command the most efficient service."
The Noble Lord said, he would perhaps be consulting the
convenience of the House and serving the object of the peti-
tioners by abstaining from going into any detail on the reso.
lutions he had moved, and contenting himself with briefly
stating the opinions which he and they held on that impor-
tant question. Many abuses, undoubtedly, existed in the
various systems of prison discipline in force half a century
ago, and though he highly appreciated the exertions
of such benevolent individuals as Sir Thomas Fowell
Buxton, Mrs. Fry, and others, yet he was very far
from agreeing in all their opinions and views, which went to
make a prison a place of comfort instead of a place of punish-
ment for offenders. This, however, had been the practical
consequence of the system of prison reform begun by
those individuals, and carried out unreflectingly by those
who had followed them. At Reading gaol, for example,
the prisoners were almost allewe.l to do as they liked;
there was no hard labour, nor any compulsory work, ex-
cept that the convicts were compelled to learn to read
and write. The only labouring was that of pump-
ing up water for washing, to which eight men
were set, although two were enough to do the
work; and even as to this the prisoners might exercise
their discretion, and refuse-if they-pleased. One prisoner re-
fused on the ground that he was a " professional," and the
work would impair the delicacy of touch required in his
"calling," as he termed it; and what did their Lordships
think was this person's profession? Neither more nor less
than that of a pickpocket. The consequence of this discretion
allowed the prisoners as to working was, that the individual
earnings of each averaged only 2s. Bd. a year; while at Cold-
bath-fields, where the prisoners were put to compulsory
bard labour, their earnings were 41. 6s. a year each. At
Reading, the annual cost of maintaining and lodging a pri-
soner was 301. 10s., and at doldbath- fields only 14/. ; all the
difference being caused by the ultra-benevolent system
adopted at the former. When the magistrates of Reading
gaol, however, were examined before their Lordships' Com-
mittee on Prison Discipline, they stated that they considered
the 'system adopted there to be the most effectual for re-
farming offenders, and on being asked what that system
was, they answered, that it consisted only of study, the pri-
soners being taught reading, writing, and arithmetic, and
invited to occupy their leisure time in reading or some light
instructive occupation, so that the prison rather resembled an
university, of which the gaolers and turnkeys were the pro-
fessors. There was no labour to lessen the expense of main-
tenance, or,to give habits of voluntary industry, an important
consideration to which he should advert presently. Nothing
of the sort, said these Berkshire magistrates—study, study,
nothing but study. But how long were these students
kept? If they were at their studies for two or three years
some results might be anticipated from them; but out of
730 persons convicted, he found between 500 and 60 were
confined under three months. .31any of them five or six
weeks.— ( Hear, hear.) If this plan of study was ever so
beneficial in itself, or ever so well intended on the part of
the projectors, this short period of detention was enough to

render it an absurdity and neutralise any practical benefit
that might otherwise have ensued. It was impossible that
they could do any good in three months; they only in-
curred a large outlay, and made the people pay heavy rates
for an utter absurdity, as the number of re-committals to
this very gaol showed, and these were not all— how many
more were sent to Abingdon gaol after having been con-
fined in Reading? The average number of annual com-
mittals for the whole county was 100,000, of which number
66,000 were first offences, and 33,00 a consisted of persons
who had committed crime more than once. The average
gain of each prisoner would give 26,0001 a year towards the
cost of maintenance; but if in all the pris ns they earned
no more than they did at Reading, it would be only 2,0001.,
while if all gained as much as they did in Uoldbath-fields,
and he saw no reason why they should not, the annual
amount would be 66,0001. in relief of an annual outlay of
no less than 480,0001,, which was the cost of these criminals
to the country. In America, the labour of the prisoners en-
tirely supported them; in Belgium and France very nearly
so; so that in this respect it would be seen what a woeful
falling off there was in this country.—(Hear, hear.) Hav-
ing detained their Lordships so long with these details, he
would now solicit their attention to a more important sub
ject—namely, the principle on which they should proceed,
with the assistance of the local magistracy, to remove the
evils he had pointed out. He said, the assistance of the
local magistracy emphatically, because, while he knew the
Executive Government had great power in the controlling
of prisons already built, they could not of their own motion
make the magistracy erect improved and reformatory
prisons, or do many things which were indispensable to a
thorough reformation of the system. He trusted, therefore,
that the country gentlemen would see the wisdom of the
course he was about to state, and act with their usual gene-
rosity—nay, he would say wisdom, by co-operating with
the Legislature and the Government in giving it effect. The
first proposition he had to lay down was, that the deterring
power of criminal infliction was very much overrated. It
was not at all to be wondered at that the country gentlemen
who acted as justices of the peace should fall into this mis-
take; they had a high admiration for the law; over their
minds it had its full and legitimate influence, but they did
not make allowance for the different character of those on
whom they inflicted punishment. All who had had the
greatest and longest experience of the actual administration
of justice—judges, prison inspectors, gaolers—all those
who had the opportumny of seeing the prisoner after he was
taken from the dock, and during the period of his imprisona!
ment—the persons, in fact, who were best able to judge of
the practical effect of our present system, placed the least re-
liance on mere punishment, as deterring from the commis-
sion of crime. Ix fact, the state of valnd, in which
crime was committed was an inflamed, not a calculating one.
The passions were excited to that extent that reason was
overpowered. • For example, revenge was excited, and
murder was the result. Lust was inflamed, and the
passion gave way. But, then, it was said that the cer-
tainty of punishment must have a deterring effect. That
Was the opinion of the late Mr. Bentham... But in putting
forth that opinion, Bentham had not taken into considera-
tion the difference of temperament, of education, and
circumstances which influenced individuals, and, until these
could be accurately estimated, the same punishment could
not possibly operate to deter criminals thus variously
another light in which
fluenced. There was, however,
punishment could 'be looked at, the imPortance of which it
was impossible to overestiritate, and that was, its reforma.
tory effect.—(Hear, hear.) He feared that had hitherto
been too little calculated by legislators, and, indeed,
hit be-
longed more to what he might call criminal police, t
' criminal jurisprudence. What, then, was the reformatory
6”teto -It was a strict system of discipline to be main-
tained continuously.- to make prisons
the bad attd the • places of suffering for
irreclaimable if such there are ; places of
• instruction for those who were', reclaimable —not as in Read-
ing gaol, to teach the
'merely to read. There was no man
living who valued edue
ton more highly than he did, but he
valued training,
arid, abovel all, useful training more highly.
He said that, if in th 4 cityoef London all the children from
two to four years of age were
would do more to diminish crirneeleafally by trained, that they
any other measure
they could adopt. But it had been said th at. as we were as-
sured in SCeipture," the poor we should h
so we should always have the criminal,
always with us,"
well, that was a
thought
ags3-
t 4-
reason for opening widely the gates of the efor
lam, in order to repress crime. He and til e lrnato
with him rested their hopes of reformation entirelywhn upon
jabour. It was not a mere theory. The 700 persons
eigned the 'petition he had presented, comprisingjug• eA who
ma-
gistrates, prison inspectors, and gaolers, all gave it as the re-
suit of their varied and long experience. He had also the
authority of his own profession, among them that of a highly
respectable' solicitor; a Member of the other House ( Mr. C.
Pearson), vho had nobly given his time arid his abilities to
this subject ; and he hail also the high authority of Mr. Re_
corder Hill and his brother, Mr. Frederick Hill, the prison
inspector,-higher than which could not be cited on the sub-
ject, The doctrine which he and they held was, that labour
is the reformer of crime. When a man was maintained in
prison let work, but let it be such work as will induce
him not only to exert himself at the time, but at the same
time gradually acquire the habit of voluntary industry. That
could only be done by giving them inducements to labour, by
treating them as unfortunate and criminal, but still reasonable
beings who-had motives for their actions. He was happy to
say that Captain Macchonochie, who had been appointed to
the management of the Warwickshire gaol, was about to
introduce this system,—(Hear, hear.) Wherever it had been
acted upon At had proved highly successful. At

Methay-, in France, at the Korne, Hamburgh, and Strettioiana
upon-Dunsmore, in Warwichthire, though the sue
tc'eos sn
and
been more or less complete, according to the ra
lenxtnenotthoifngthemeoxrepedriimateionotstiythweassst•
shtaetmaolicadalesebnowsuncctbesasofuiln.
Reading,
more accurate means of testing these thant
the small number of re-committals, and there were much
more
The system was simply to
they left the establishment.
distinct account was kept of the conduct of every one aefureir.
ploy
land
dm
sufficient
thecie
ot field
for
a and
at garden
purpose,in theirand turn,w b4r we h e
therere thereNyas
wnoT to introduce staple manufacture, bv eans of which
they supply their own clothing, and at the same time look
forward to something of their own on their liberation. The
effect of this system had been perfectly satisfactory. But
the reformatory system was not consistent with short periods
of imprisonment. Mr. Rushton, the police magistrate of
Liverpool, had shown the effect of short confinement, in the
faet that children—lads under twelve years of age—had
been committed 16, 17, and 18 times. Just see the effect of
this on the country. During the last forty years the popu-
lation had increased 65, the consumption of coffee and tea
75, of malt, spirits, &c. 55 per cent., or nearly in the ratio
of the increase of the population ; but crime had increased
400 per cent., or more than six times the increase of popula-
tion and luxuries—(Hear, hear)—and of that increase 81
per cent. was composed of juvenile offenders, or nearly four-
fifths of the whole.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore their Lord-
ships would see that this came to be a serious matter, and
they ought earnestly to consider how they were to deal with
them. It had been said that as long as receivers of stolen
goods existed, juvenile crimes could not be arrested. But
the system he proposed, by taking away his allies from him,
by attracting his affections and training him to habits of
regular industry, would deprive the receiver or " fence," as
he was called, of those on whom he .depended; and when
these reclaimed and industrious persons "ere once more re-
stored to society, they would be able, from their knowledge,
to point out the dens where these receivers fztrked—to drag
them into the light of day, and thus put down An atrocious
traffic. He thought that was an answer to the objection.
He could not conceive anything more awful than that chil-
dren of nine or ten years of age should be sent to gaol, and
be compelled to associate with those who had, as it were,
graduated in crime, and thus be exposed to contamination
of the worst description. Of all the crimes the country could
possibly commit this was the greatest, the most heinous.
The Noble Lord, after some fart her observations, concluded
by expressing a hope that the .House would consider the
resolutions he then moved, and that if they found it too late
to agree with them this session, that at all events they
would take themlinto consideration, with a view to practical
measures, at an early period of next session.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said his Noble and
Learned Friend had certainly not, in his opinion, overstated
the importance of the subject to whick he had called the
attention of the House, and, unfortunately, also, he had not
overstated the difficulties by which the subject was sur-
rounded. During the time that he had been ,in power, in
f
common with those who took part in the esinalleistmraatni°yndso-
public affairs, he frequently called attention to
he never saw that remedy suggested which
fects of the system, and many were thermeodoilaopopolfiiedde,obtulyt
of reformation evidently
the duty of all legislation to
be said to have attained that statebse
obtain
ed. The efforts in
for exp
the right direction, however, were not useless,
wfohriethh,eyaltaid
the foundation a
r period, could be safely employed.. With respect
ftuottuhee resolutions of his Noble and Learned Friend—resolu-
tions which embodied his opinions, and the result of his ex-
perience, there was much in them that he approved, and
much that had his full concurrence ; but at the same time he
could not avoid stating that there were some expressions
in them not befitting the adoption of their Lord ships. The
two first resolutions referred to the subject of classification
and the importance of enforcing it. His objection. was nut
to the importance of classification, but was founded on
the impossibility of attaining a perfect system of classifi-
cation by any other mode than by the classification
from the separate confinement of each prisoner. All ex-
periments, and the calculations founded on those experi-
ments, showed that the system of separate confinement,
regulated so as to fall short of anything like cruelty, under
properly constituted authorities, was the safest, most humane,
and not the least economical for the public.—(Hear, hear.)
If they carried out a system of classification in accordance
with the wishes of the Noble and Learned Lord, how was
it to be? They could not, if they desired to promote his
views, put persons who committed the same crime together,
for then they would have an association of the most aban-
doned characters and the worst offenders, a classification of
age would be subject to every variety of criminality. They
might have, it was true, a classification of sexes, but then
the Noble Lord's object would be far, indeed, from being
gained. Classification on any other principle than that of
separate confinement must be a bad one. In the one or two
model prisons where it was established, it had not only in-
vited the attention, but commanded the approbation cf
foreigners; and throughout fifty or sixty prisons
in England means were being adopted for carry-
ing the system into effect. The system was not
uniform as applied to every individual, but it ad.
mitted of work being apportioned according to the habits
and dispositions of each, as a species of solace to the indus-
trious, and as a punishment to the idle, but still enforcing
the great object of penalty. Some of the Noble and Learned
Lord's resclutions were inconsistent with the position laid
down in the fourth resolution. The real object of punish-
ment was to deter from the repetition of crime. Reforma-
tion, most laudable in itself, applied only to hundreds, but
the principle of deterring from the commission of crime was
applicable to millions. With respect to assimilating the sys-
tem in our prisons to that pursued in the prisons of the
United States, he regarded it as impracticable, from the dif-
ference of circumstances and the greater value of labour in
the United States. He certainly gave a preference to that
portion of the resolution which dwelt on the importance
of deterring men from becoming prisoners a second time,
and he believed that desideratum was carried out to a
great extent in asme prisons, where the despotic system was
practised.—(Hear, hear.) The almost total abolition of
capital punishment, so revolting to humanity, and asso-
ciated with the shedding of blood, imposed the ne-
cessity for inflicting a very different species of punishment,
characterised by an amount of severity short of absolute
cruelty, yet of sufficient stringency to deter from the com-
mission of crime. For cases of this description separate im-
prisonment was peculiarly applicable. He hoped that in
the progress of those regulations, which magistrates through-
out the different counties of England were bound to bring
under the consideration of the Secretary of State, who had
the power of modifying them, not many years would elapse
before the means for adopting separate imprisonment would
be provided in all gaols, so that the system might be intro-
duced into each establishment, and a uniformity of punish-
ment established for particular classes of offences and
offenders. When that uniformity was attained great good
evidently could not fail to be the result, and an effectual
reformation brought about.—(Hear.) Where the separate
system had been adopted, the number of re-commitments
was much less than in those gaols where it was not yet in-
troduced. This was a very striking result of the advantage
of separate imprisonment. He assured the Noble and
Learned Lord that the subject which he had brought under
the consideration of the House was one which had constantly
attracted the attention of the Government, and would con-
tinue to do so until they effected as much benefit as they
possibly could. With regard to the dietary provided in gaols,
he admitted giving the smallest quantity of food consis-
tently with the preservation of the health of the prisoners.
For the reasons assigned in the course of these observations,
he should be under the necessity of moving the previous
question, unless the Noble and Learned Lord withdrew his
resolutions.

After a few words from Lord BROUGHAM and the Mar-
quis of WESTMINSTER, in explanation,
The Earl of CHICHESTER desired to offer a few remarks
on the subject generally, and on some of the propositions of
the Noble and Learned Lord. He quite agreed that there
ought to be a more uniform system of punishment, and
greater control vested in the Secretary of State for the
Home Department. The want of a controlling power in that
office had been long felts and though several recent Acts
had extended his control, he hal not yet been armed with
authority sufficient, and legislative interference of a still
mcre comprehensive character was required. He quite
agreed with the Noble and Learned Lord that there ought
to be a different system of punishment for the least criminal
of the juvedile classes. With regard to the system of sepa-
rate confinement, it had been adopted under the provisions
of a special Act of Parliament after the Legislature and
the public had full opportunity for considerinc, the
able report on the subject by Mr. Crawford, who had
been sent to the United States to make inquiries connected
with the working of the system.—(Hear.) He did not see
why the separate system should be objected to, particularly
when it had been adopted, after many able and judicious re-
ports on its efficiency in causing reformation among pri-
soners, some of whom were known to be of very bad cha-
racter. The utility of the system was also supported by the
evidence of the prison officers, who had frequently visited
them, and by the improvement in the morality of the pri-
soners. He did not at all understand what the Noble and
Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) meant by classification in
one of his resolutions, and should say that if it tended to
allow prisoners to associate together, that nothing could be
more mischievous, as had been long since proved, and as had
been long since condemned. The experience of the last
ten years in the case of separate confinement, should, he
thought, serve as a sufficient proof in favour of its con-
tinuance, particularly as economy and reformation were
materially advanced by it.—( Hear, hear.) Were their
Lordships to refer to the penal colonies, it would be
found that those prisoners who had undergone the
separate system had turned out to be the most useful
members of society, and the b-st promoters of morality.
The Bishop of OXFORD said that he felt it his duty to
make some few remarks on the opinions of the Noble and
Learned Lord (Brougham) relative to Reading gaol. lie
was sorry to say that the Noble Lord, unintentionally, he
felt assured, misrepresented the state of Reading gaol, for
the magistrates a ,d chaplain who visit it give the strongest
proof that the separate system carried on there tends more
to deter men from committing crime than any other system
practised throughout England. He did not at the same
time mean to say that the influence of a few weeks in that
prison would have the desired effect, but he kaew, from the
best authority, that from three to six months always had
the effect of reforming prisoners, and that there was a re•
duction of from 30 to 20 per cent. since the separate system
was introduced. He agreed with the Noble Lord that,
wherever the dietary amounted to the character of luxury,
it should be cut down, but did not think that it prevailed in
Reading gaol.
The Earl of HARROWBY said that he was well ac-
quainted with Pentonville Prison, and also the prison in
Staffordshire, and was pleased to say that there was not
more than one in twenty committed since the introduction
of the separate system, and that there was not one in-
stance of mental aberration, and also that religious instruc-
tion had a most beneficial influence on the prisoners. The
Noble Marquis had expressed himself so clearly and dis-
tinctly in favour of this system, that he was quite sure it
would strengthen the hands of its friends all over the
country, and l-ad to its introduction in quaeretnersadwophteerd.e, but
b
for that encouragement, it would not have
Lord BROUGHAM replied, and after commenting wi▪ th
in separate cells, concluded by stating
some severity upon the practice of confining untried nbteriesdhpourilsdonneorst
reesouluestitoionns,iwnhtib▪
che
trouble their Lordships to divide upon
he begged leave to withdraw, and leave q
hands of the Government.
The resolutions were then withdrawn.
theL
Land
drtheth
third time and
The
The audit of Railway
passed.RAlL WAY ACCOUNTS.
from and or- --ONTEAGLE, was read a
BcfrapinoiestAillc:o,Lausnrt:saitdlaills,ecaofntedrtiamef.ew words
Their Lordships th,n
o'clock. adjourned at a Quarter to Nine

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 6.
POOR-LAW (IRELAND) RILL.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Sir ROBERT FERGUSON then moved the follow.
ing clause:—" And whereas by an Act passed in the
tenth year of the reign of her present Majesty, intituled,
' An Act to amend the Law relating to the Valuation of
rateable Property in Ireland,' it is provided that every
rate for the relief of the destitute poor in every union
which shall be made after thirty days from the time
when the board of guardians shall have received the
valuation et aii the telyuhuzds comprised in tin Pion,

THE- UN, LONDON,
shall ke made according to such valuation, and it
18 expedient to amend the said provision ; be
ft therefore enacted, that from and after the
passing of this Act, so soon as the guardians of
any ecion shall have received from the Commissioners
of I dua:ion the valuation of all the townlands situate in
an elector 1 division of such union, all rates thereafter
yto be made o.
-I such electoral division shall be made ac-
cording to such
valuation, until the same be revised, as
in the said Act is
crovided, and thereafter acccording to
ised from time to time: provided
such valuation as re,'
that all salaries, estaNisbment charges, and other
sums payable by the union and chargeable on
the several electoral div:sions, according to the
net annual value of the property situate
therein respectively, shall be chargeable on such electoral
divisions according to the net annual value of the rate-
able property therein, as set forth in the rates last made
on such electoral divisions, previous to the time when
the board of guardians received from the Commissioners
of Valuation the valuation of all the townlands situate in
any of the electoral divisions as aforesaid, until the
guardians shall have received the valuation of all the
electoral divisions in the union, and no longer."
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said there could be no doubt
that the bringing into operation a speedy valuation was
most desirable, but he thought the addition of this clause
would lead to considerable embarrassment and confusion.
He hoped, therefore, he would not press it.
Sir R. FERGUSON consented to withdraw the
clause.
Mr. BATESON moved to add the following proviso
to clause A:—" Provided also, that where any person
chargeable to any electoral division shall have received
relief, and shall cease to be relieved, and shall thereafter,
within the period of twelve months, again begin to receive
relief, such last-mentioned relief shall be chargeable on
the electoral division to which such person was in the
first instance chargeable."—The proviso was agreed to.
Mr. FAGAN moved to add the following proviso to
clause A :—" Provided always, that the cost for the relief
of destitute poor who shall not have resided in the union
where such relief is given for the last three years next
previous to receiving such relief, shall be charged and
chargeable according to the provisions of an Act passed
in the tenth year of her present Majesty, intitultd An
Act to make turthcr provision for the relief of the desti-
tute poor in Ireland."'
After a brief desultory discussion the proviso was
agreed to.
The report was then agreed to, and the Bill (entered
to be read a third timeSU on Monday.
PPLY.
Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that he proposed to
take the Committee of Supply on Thursday next.
The House then adjourned till Five o'clock.

The House resumed at Five o'clock.
PETITIONS.

Mr. PLUMPTRE presented a petition against the
endowment of Roman Catholic clergymen.
Mr. SPOONER presented a number of petitions in
favour of the Protection of Women Bill.

Mr. COWAN presented a petition from Edinburgh,
praying that the Public Health Bill for Scotland may be
delayed till next session.
An Ilox. MEMBER presented three petitions in m
places in Lincolnshire complaining of agricultural dis-
tress, and praying for a moderate protective duty.
Mr. DISRAELI presented a petition from a number
of shopkeepers in Netherby, in the West Riding, com-
plaining of the failure of free-trade, and suggesting re-
medies.—(Hear.)
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

The House at its rising was ordered to stand adjourned
till Monday.

THE SCOTCH BILLS.

Mr. HUME inquired if it was finally settled that the
Scotch Bills were to comp on cu Monday. If so it
would seem that the Government cared little for the
opinion of the Scotch Members, who generally opposed
the Bill, or for the vast number of petitions which the
people of Scotland had pi titioned against the measures.
The Scotch Members agreed in opinion that the Bills
should be postponed until another session.
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that the Government in-
tended to take the Bills on Monday. They should then
see if the statement of the Hon. Gentleman was c,rrect,
that the majority of the Scotch Members were averse to
proceeding with the Bills this session.
Mr. HUME said but a small number of the Scotch
Members were iu town, and they would be sitting on
Committees during the early part of Monday. The
Government were acting most unfairly towards them.
Mr. M'NEILL could not help stigmatizing the way
in which these Bills had been dealt with. It appeared
that the Government considered these Bills so urgently
important that they were determined to put them upon
the people of Scotland whether they would have
them or not, and would not even allow them to
be heard upon them ; and they arrived at this late
period of the session without having had an op-
portunity of discussing the merits of the Bills,
except after midnight, Surely it they were so
urgent the people of Scotland had a right to be
heard upon them. And now they were to be discussed at
a forenoon sitting, when many of the Scotch Members
had left town. Surely the Government ought to defer
to the wishes of the people of Scotland, and postpone the
Bills until another session.
Mr. DUNCAN said, it was remarked last night that
at the recent meeting of Scotch Members no decision
was come to with respect to these Bills. Now he could
show that out of 16 five or.ly voted against the postpone-
ment of the Marriage Bill, and all save two voted
against proceeding with the Health of Towns Bill.
A vast number of petitions had been presented against
the Bills, and scarcely any in their favour.
He had not received a single letter or petition in favour
of the Mils, whilst he had received hundreds praying
for delay. That being the case, he should consider it
his duty to oppose the measures in every stage.
Mr. ELLICE, jun., said he was bound to say that
all the petitions he had received from his constituents
were against the Bills, but after the best consideration
which he could give to the Bills, he was unable to come
to the same conclusion as his constituents. He had
sent down to them a few of the reasons which
had induced him to look favourably upon the
Bills, but ,as yet he had received no rejoinder.
It. was his firm opinion that the petitions had been got
up in the way that petitions usually were—(Hear, hear)
—that the parties signing them were really unacquainted
with the nature of the measures. The Registration Bill
would be a most valuable improvement of the present
law, and it was most disgraceful that such a measure
had not been introduced and passed long ago.—(Hear,
hear.) The Police Bill and the Health of Towns Bill
were also most valuable and important measures, and he
trusted that the Government would not give way to
any representations which were made against them,
seeing that they would confer a great benefit upon all
classes of the community in Scotland.—(Hear, hear.)
The LORD ADVOCATE said the Registration Bill
had already passed the House of Lords twice, and ho
should be able to show that it was of the greatest
possible importance to Scotland. He was per-
fectly aware of the number of petitions which
had been presented to the House against the Bill, but the
arguments which they contained were insignificant, and
were, in point of fact, not against the measure generally,
but against one or two of the clauses.
Mr. COWAN said he was perfectly free to give
his vote either way, but, after mature consideration, he
was not prepared to support the Registration Bill with-
out material alteration. He was surprised to see the in
difference with which petitions from all parts of Scot-
land had been treated—(Hear, hear)—and he could
assure the House that they were not only genuine, but
contained very earnest appeals against these Bills.
In answer to a question from Mr. E. B. ROCHE, who
requested that Mr. Monckton Milnes would postpone
his motion,
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES said, that his motion had
been upon the paper for many months, and he felt,
therefore, not inclined to accede to the request.
Mr. ROCHE endeavoured to explain that he spoke for
a large portion of the constituency of Ireland, although
he could not profess himself to be their representative.
The order of the day as respected Mr. Milnes' motion
was then agreed to.
THE PUBLIC RECORDS.

Mr. HOPE inquired whether her Majesty's Govern-
ment had taken steps to procure a suitable receptacle for
the public records which are now deposited in the
Chapter-house of Westminster Abbey, and the Norman
Chapel in the White Tower, to the great detriment of
those very interesting and important monuments.
The CLIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that he believed every means necessary for their due
custody had been taken.
THE DANISH BLOCKADE.

Mr. SANDARS, In accordance with his notice,
begged to ask the Noble Lord the Secretary fur Foreign
Affairs if it he a fact, as is publicly stated, that the
British Consuls (or Vice-Consuls), Mr. Petersen, of
Stettin, and Mr. Krause, of Swinemunde, have been
dismissed from their respective offices, and, as is alleged,
for having certified to facts in certain documents de-
claring the inefficiency of the Danish blockade. He
did not see the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign
Department in his place, and was therefore somewhat at
a loss to know to whom to put his question.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that his Noble Friend would
be in the House on Monday, when, no doubt, he would
be able to give a sufficient reply to the question.
STATE OF THE' POOR OF IRELAND.

Mr. SLANEY gave notice that early in next session
he should revive his motion for an unpaid Commission
to report on the state of the poor population of Ireland.

PROTECTION:

Mr. HERRIES gave notice that on the motion for
the Committee of Supply he should draw the attention
of the House to the advisability, if not to the necessity,
of imposing a fixed duty upon the importation of corn.