The Sun.
London, England, 1836-06-28 00:00:00

sent from Dublin, most numerously and respectably
signed, against the Bill, as sent up from the other
House.--(Hear, hear.) The petitioners expressed great
alarm at the provisions contained in the Bill, the effect of
which they conceived would be to transfer all power in
these Corporations to the hands of those who were ex-
clusive in religion, and hostile to the English connection, viz.,
to the priests of the Catholic Church. It ought to be observed
that in all the petitions from Irish towns, and from Ireland
generally, no objection was made to the abolition of existing
Corporations. When they considered what the early ob-
ject of these Corporations was, and what the feelings of the
Protestants were towards them, they deserved considerable
credit for their forbearance. When their Lordships re-
turned the Bill as amended to the other House of Parlia-
ment, great attempts were made to excite agitation ; but
in order to do so it was necessary to mix up this question with
that of abolition of tithes ; and he concluded, seeing that
agitation had not been so powerful and formidable as those
who undertook to raise it might undoubtedly expect, might
it not be hoped that the Catholics of Ireland were satisfied
with the abolition of Corporations, and that they were very
willing to forego the blessings which the reconstruction of
the Bill by the other House of Parliament offered to their
acceptance.

The Earl of WICKLOW presented a similar petition
from a parish in Dublin. The Noble Lord concurred with
the prayer of the petition ; for however much he approved
of the principle of the Bill, there were details connected
with itilthat could not meet with his assent ; and when
be found there was no chance of making amendments
that met with his approval, and as he could not agree with
the amendments proposed by their Lordships, he thought
it better to abstain from interfering in the discussion
upon the question.—(Cries of " Hear.") The utmost evil
that could result was, that the Municipal bodies of Ireland
were likely to continue in their present state. All concurred
in the opinion, that much and great abuse existed
ih those Corporations, and when he said he hoped those
Corporations would exist for another year, he trusted he
should not be considered as upholding their existence, but
only anxious that they should exist for another year, rather
than be abolished altogether. He sincerely hoped that Mi-
nisters would during the time that should elapse between
the end of the present, and the commencement of
the next Session, give their full attention to the
subject, in order that they might frame a measure
that would preserve these institutions, which he considered
so necessary to the happiness and welfare of the people.
Lord STRANGFORD presented a similar petition from
the parish of St. Catharine, in the City of Dublin.
The Duke of SUTHERLAND presented a petition
from a parish in Staffordshire, praying their Lordships to
agree to the Amendments made by the House of Commons
in the Irish Municipal Reform Bill.
On the motion of the Duke of RICHMOND, the
Sale of Bread Bill was read a third time.
IRISH MUNICIPAL CORPORATION BILL.—

(LORDS' AMENDMENTS.)
Lord MELBOURNE—I now rise, my Lords, for the
purpose of calling your Lordships' attention to the amend.
ments that have been made by the other House on the
amended Bill that was sent down to them. The great ex-
tent of the amendments that were made in the
first instance by your Lordships, and again, the great
extent of the number of amendments that have been made
by the other House of Parliament on the present Bill,
have necessarily caused considerable time to elapse
before this matter could be brought with all ne-
cessary information under your Lordships' attention.
My Lords, I cannot say that I regret this period has
elapsed—indeed, I cannot do otherwise than rejoice at this
delay, because it has allowed anything like ill-feeling and
anger to die away, and which, under any circumstances, I
should expect from your Lordships ; and under the circum-
stances I have stated, I expect with the utmost confidence,
that your Lordships will give to these amendments,
that calm, that full, that impartial consideration, which
their importance, and the authority from which they are
derived, clearly demand at your hands. I entirely agree
with what fell from a Noble Duke on the presentation of a
petition in a former period of this evening,—that you will
not suffer yourselves to be intimidated by clamour—that you
will not suffer yourselves in any way to be affected by
threats ; that you will not suffer yourselves in any respect
whatsoever to have your judgments biassed, warped, or irri-
tated by any recent propositions which may have been made,
but which, in my opinion, fall in their very statement by their
own absurdity, and therefore require no further allusion from
me. But, my Lords, while we express this wish on the one
hand, we hope, on the other, that your Lordships will not suffer
your elves to be so affected by any considerations of this nature,
or by any observations that may have been made, as to be in-
duced not to give these amendments that full, that calm, and
that impartial consideration which they deserve. If you shall
find, upon 'consideration, that you have taken a hasty and
an erroneous view of this subject, you will, I am sure, be the
first to act the manly part of retracting what you feel to be a
miataka, ...di or ovita.iag a rcaainar.3 to yield to reetcznrica whirl b
appear to you to be 'nom sound, more just, and better founded.
—( Hear, hear.) With these few preliminary observations,
my Lordy, I will proceed to call your attention to these
amendments. I think it is impossible but that you must
admit the fairness and justice of the very calm and temperate
statement with which the Commons have prefaced them. I
think, too, that your Lordships must feel, if these proceed-
ings should really terminate and conclude in a difference be-
tween the two Houses, that you have commenced this war-
fare rather in a rough, rather in a rude, and rather in an offen-
sive manner. My Lords, you sent down to the other House.
of Parliament a Bill totally changed in its nature, altered in
all its provisions, changed in its title, altered entirely in the
whole of its principles, bearing no resemblance or similitude
to the Bill sent up to you from the House of Commons except
in its subject matter, and excepting so far that it is also a Bill
having reference to the subject of Municipal Corporations. It
is impossible that your Lordships can do other than feel that
this is a very strong mode of proceeding, and one which, if
it were adopted towards your Lordships, I feel quite certain,
not only that you would refuse to acquiesce in, but that you
would reject with the utmost indignation.—( Hear, hear.) If
your Lordships do not feel on this subject that it is a strong
measure you have taken—if you do not feel that it is a mea-
sure in a great degree offensive in its character—if you do not
feel that it is one in which you could not expect the other
House of Parliament to acquiesce--then, my Lords, I will only
say, that I view with considerable surprise, and can very imper-
fectly understand, the nature of the judgments which arrive at
such a conclusion. I have only now to state the amendments
which the Commons have proposed to your Lordships in this
Bill ; those amendments are so very distinctly, clearly, suc-
cincty, and fairly stated in the concluding reasons alleged by
the Commons, that I cannot give your Lordships a better
general idea of them than by reading the para-
graph to which I allude :—" In the Bill, as now
amended, the Commons have consented to confine the esta-
blishment of Town-councils to twelve considerable cities and
towns, of which their wealth and importance render them
well suited to such system of local government." Carrick-
fergus, I understand, possesses considerable wealth and pro-
perty, and is, moreover, an assize town. It is for these reasons
that these towns have been selected for the purpose of having
established in them those institutions which we contend are
essential to the interests of the country at large, and which we
contend are more particularly essential to the interests of Ire-
land, where local government is more particularly required.
" The Commons have further provided for the local govern-
ment of twenty cities and towns of lesser extent and popula-
tion by applying to them the enactments of a statute specially
relied upon in the amendments of the Lords." Seventeen of
these towns are Parliamentary boroughs; three of them do
not return Members to Parliament, but they are, I under-
stand, in point of wealth and importance, next to the other
towns ; and therefore the Commons have thought proper to
include them in this schedule, thereby insuring to them the
benefit of local and municipal government, free from all the
inconvenience and disadvantages of the Act to which they
refer. The provisions of that Act being left to the rate-payers
'
to carry into execution were, as your Lordships know, very
seldom adopted at all. You are very probably aware,
from a perusal of the amendments, of the measures which
are proposed to render the adoption of the Act compulsory,
and it is therefore unnecessary for me to detail them. In
additiOn to empowering two justices of the peace to call a
meeting of persons who are in fact compelled to adopt the
provisions of the Act, there are in the amendments of the
Commons others of great importance, including one in re-
ference to the appointment of coroners, which, contrary; to all
former precedent, is vested by your Lordships' Bill in the
hands of the Lord. Lieutenant. But as the question now is,
whether your Lordships will adopt the general principle of
these amendments, or whether you will reject them, I will
not waste your time with minor details, which, if you arc
prepared to adopt the general principle, will be easily settled
hereafter, and which, if you are not prepared to adept it, are
wholly unnecessary to be repeated by me. This question has
been already so very amply and fully discussed in so many de-
bates in both Houses of Parliament, and the grounds on which
we have argued the question are so Very distinctly, eleatlY,
and forcibly laid down in the reasons alleged by the Com-
mons, that it would be only wasting your Lordships time if I
were to do more than briefly recapitulate the very strong rea-
sons which should induce you to accede to these amendments.
In the first place, your Lordships amendments adopt a differ-
ent principle with respect to Ireland from that which prevails
in any other part of his Majesty's dominions; different from
that which prevails in England, different from that which pre-
vails in Scotland, different from that which prevails, I appre-
hend, in any part of the colonies in his Majesty's domi-
nions. In adopting that principle, my Lords, you are taking
a step which is undoubtedly hurtful and mortifying to
the feelings of the Irish people. Now I ask you is that
wise or prudent—is that wise or prudent in what you your-
selves represent to be the state of Ireland at present ? Is it
wise or prudent, when the wounds of the people of that coun-
try are just beginning, as it were, in a certain degree, to cica-
trise, to tear them open afresh, as you must inevitably do, by
this course of proceeding ?—( Cheers.) Even if your Lord-
ships' measures were in some degree preferable to those which
we propose, would it be wise to obtain them at this sacrifice ?
—(Cheers.) Is it, I ask you, wise or prudent to do that
which, although it may not create a great feeling at the pre-
sent time, which, although it may not create any very violent
feeling at this present moment (as a Noble Friend of mine
thinks, whether justly or not, I will not say), still will hereafter
be referred to, and looked back upon and quoted as an instance
in which the British Legislature has undervalued and in-