The Sun.
London, England, 1822-03-08 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. W. DUNDAS presented a Petition from certain indi-
viduals, praying to be heard by Counsel against several Clauses
in the Edinburgh Police Bill.—Ordered to lie on the table. •

THE SALT TAY.

Mr. JONES rose to move for the production of Accounts,
on which he proposed to chew that the Salt Tax might be ad-
vantageously abandoned altogether. He moved for Accounts
of the number of Officers employed by the Excise in the su-
perintendenance and management of the Duties on Salt, the
amount of their Salaries and Emoluments, and the total amount
of the nett produce of the Tax over the same.--Ordered.

AURICULT URAL DISTRESS.

Mr. LOCKHART rose to present a Petition from certain
Owners and Occupiers of Land of Witney, in the county of
Oxford, on the subject of Agricultural Distress. On looking
at the signatures to this Petition, he found that all classes con-
curred in the representations here put forth. The case they
made out was quite alarming, and if the mischief were to be
ascribed, as he believed it had been by his Majesty's Principal
Minister, to superabundant produce, he thought the farmer
ought at all events to be protected against foreign competitors,
and the evils resulting under 'particular circumstances from the
importation of grain. He wished such measures adopted as
would,give thth farmer a market, and Ine, labourer employment.
The present distress threatened to lead to the most serious con-
sequences. He had been informed on authority which he could
not question, that it had produced some disturbances in the
county of Norfolk, and that riots had broken out in the county
of Suftblk, which made it necessary to call out the yeomanry.
The Hon. Member for Suffolk would perhaps be able to state
whether or not this was true.
Mr. GOOCH was sorry to say that that part of the Hon.
Gentleman's statement, which related to the counties of Norfolk
and Suffolk was too true. Circumstances of a disagreeable
nature had occurred on the borders of the county of Norfolk,
and in the county of Suffolk disturbances had taken place, which
had made it necessary to call out a part of the yeomanry.—
He was the last man in the House who would unnecessarily
endeavour to excite alarm ; but he was bound to admit that
these facts were true. He, however, begged to correct a state-
ment which had been made by the Hon. Member for the City
of Oxford (Ali. Lockhart), on a former night, respecting the
gaol at Bury, which was one of the best regulated establishments
of the kind in the kingdom, and which was under the care of a
most respectable, humane, and intelligent person. The Hon.
Gentleman had stated, that in a gaol which was built to con-
tain 100 persons, at present 200 were confined—that of these
200 prisoners 80 were poachers. It had also been said, that of
the 130 poachers many had gone out poaching in order that they
might get taken up, and be thus saved from starving. He had
had a letter from that respectable gaoler to whom he had al-
ready alluded,. which stated, that instead" of there being 200
prisoners in the gaol, there were at present but 150. For the
80 poachers mentioned, but 40 were in confinement, and in-
quiries had been made to ascertain whether any of them had
gone out to poach to escape starving, by getting themselves
taken, and it had been found that among them all there was not
a single solitary instance of that nature.
Mr. LOCKHART was glad to hear that the number of the
prisoners was not so great as he had understood it to be, but
sorry it was not smaller than it was according to the statement'l
of the Hon. Gentleman.

Mr. H. SUMNER mentioned a case in which the poachers
confined in a Penitentiary had been employed in a mill. The
effect was most beneficial, for it had been stated, after a con-
siderable time had elapsed, that not one of those who had been
so employed ever returned to confinement.—The petition was
ordered to lie on the Table.
Mr. (}OOCH rose to present a petition from certain owners
and occupiers of land, on the subject of Agricultural Distress.
He was not disposed to carry his politics so far as to be unwil-
ling to present a petition from any class of persons because
they happened to differ from him. He had therefore to state that
this Petition was respectfully drawn up, and he hoped it would
receive from the House the attention it deserved. Having said
this, there were some circumstances connected with the Petition
to which he wished to advert, and some part of his own conduct
which he desired to explain. This Petition was voted at a lare
meeting called by a requisition, very respectably signed;
but it had been so managed, that he believed not ten free-
holders, from Ipswich to Yarmouth, knew that such a requisi-
tion was about to be forwarded. There was nothing in it but
what all the freeholders, whatever their political sentiments,
might have subscribed to; he therefore did not see why it should
have been kept from persons who differed in some respects
from those by whom it had been drawn up ; but such was the
course pursued. When the day of meeting arrived, he attended
at Stow market, as did several friends of his, who lived within
A morning's ride of the place. Ten of these agreed with ten
of the party opposed to them to draw up a string of resolu-
tions, which should be so framed that they might pass unan.
imously, as it was admitted that it would be wise to keep
politics out of the way altogether. The resolutions were drawn
up, and he thought they were going off unanimously, when an
individual there, of whom he had no right to complain, as he
was not a party to the agreement which had been entered into,
broke in upon the arrangement by moving a resolution which
went to call for a Parliamentary Reform. Those Gentlemen
who had come to an arrangement with his friends, seconded
and supported this proposition, and they then entered upon a
wide field of discussion. The Sheriff would not put the resolu-
tion, as to do so would be to take the county by surprise, the
meeting not having been summoned to consider of the pro.
priety of petitioning fora Reform in Parliament; and he there.
fore believed that the best thing he could do was to dissolve the
meeting. He (Mr. Gooch) and the few friends with him re-
tired, and afterwards the Sheriff was persuaded to call on the
instant a new meeting in the waggon. He was surprised at
this, as acting such a part was taking the county completely
by surprise. At this new meeting the Reform proposition was
carried. His worthy colleague, whose absence from the House
he much regretted, would have supported it had he been in his
place, because he, from the conviction of his honest mind, was
as much in favour of Parliamentary Reform, as he (Mr. Gooch)
was opposed toit. He himself, however, wished for Reform
where this could be effected with safety. He (Mr. Gooch)
wished to guard :against a lavish expenditure--he wished to
punish and repress corruption • wherever it might be detected,
but he could not go the length of calling for that alteration
in the Constitution which some thought necessary. He had
mentioned the indisposition of his Honourable Colleague to ac-
Count for his not being there to support the Petition, which
had beep carried about six weeks for signatures, to the prayer
of which, as it now stood, he was sorry to say that he could
not subscribe.

Mr. COKE said, constituted as that Rouse was, ne had no
hope that the Petition now presented, or any other, would be
attended W. The lion. Gentleman had told them the meeting

was very numerous, and so he (Mr. Coke) understood it to
have been ; and he could 'not therefore understand how the
county could be so much taken by surprise its--the Hon. Gen-
tleman supposed. From the conduct pursued by that House,
in rejecting these Petitions, it was dear that no relief was to be
expected without a reform in Parliament. The plan lately
brought forward by Ministers would not relieve the landed. in-
terest. A proof of this might be found in the price of barley
having gone down from 4s. I Id. to 4s. 6d. the bushel. The Noble
Marquis treated these subjects with a degree of good humour,
which, in consequence of a certain understanding among
-them, passed off very well there ; but for the statement he had.
lately made, it was to him perfectly incomprehensible, 'and
he could not make either head or tail of it. A speech
which had preceded it by a few evenings, shewing the neces-
sity of a reduction of taxation, was much more comprehen,
sible. All felt that it was to a diminution of the public bur-
dens that they must look for real substantial relief. At. pre-
sent, however, to petition was useless, for the Noble Marquis
sat there ready to overturn all the hopes of the sufferers. No
relief could be hoped for but from a Reform in that House.
The plan brought forward for the relief of Agriculture would
not suffice. He could wish the Noble Marquis and some of
his colleagues would do him (Mr. Coke) the honour to • accom-
.pany him to Mark-lane, to witness the ridicule with which his
plan was treated there.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did not rise for the pur--
pose of discussing the question of Parliamentary Reform. He
had hoped to see him at present in a better temper of mind. He
did not think the Hon. Gentleman had a right to•comphin of
not, being able to make head or tail of his plan, as he had been
of late occupied with subjects of much greater interest. Had
he. been less occupied he might have heard some goad reasons
for adopting that plan which Government had brought forward,
in preference to that which the Honourable Gentleman would
recommend., The Gentlemen of Mark-lane understood their
interest better than to suppose' the price of corn would rise
through what was called a Parliamentary Reform, if public
credit Were not maintained. Were taxes taken off beyond
what could be spared without injury to public credit, Mark.
lane would be the first to cry out, and to feel that it must suf-
fer from a violation of national faith. All the interests of the
country were happily so bound up together that one .could not
be injured without prejudice to the rest. The motion for a
Parliamentary Reforni.might have, been unanimously carried
at a county meeting, but without *speaking disrespectfully of
such meetings, he must object to its being supposed that it em-
bodied all the deliberative Gentlemen of the county.
Mr. ill‘DoNaLD and Mr. LENNARD rose at the same time.
The latter Gentleman was named by the SPEAKER, but several
voices called out the name of the former.

Mr. LENNARD begged to offer a few words, notwithstand-
ing the opposition made by the lion. Member for Durham.
Mr. LAMBTON begged pardon of the Speaker, but really
did not understand that the Hon. Gentleman had any right to
allude personally to him.
Mr. LENNARD remarked, the Hon. Gentleman kad called
out another name when he (Mr. Lennard) rose to speak.
The SPEAKER said nothing was more common,_ when
more than one Member rose at the same moment, than for'
Members to call out the different names. This was not in-
tended to mark disrespect ; it was to -be supposed that each
called out the name of the person he had first seen on his legs.
Mr. LENNARD had alluded to the Hon. Member for Dur-
ham, conceiving him to be out of order. He then proceeded
to speak at some length on the contents of the Petitions. The
Petitioners repelled the idea that any part of their distress sprung
from over-production, and were satisfied that they could obtain
no relief but by a reduction of taxes ; and he argued that a re-
duction of taxes was the most desirable measure that could be
adopted.
Mr. M'DONALD said, the admirably well-timed pleasan-
try of the Noble Marquis on the occasion of the presentation of
this most melancholy Petition, might be very, satisfactory to his
own mind, but he must allow him to say, that it would not be
very satisfactory to those who were attending to the progress of
their deliberations out of doors. The Noble Marquis might
taunt his Hon. Friend, the Member for Norfolk, on his do-
mestic affairs, but his Hon. Friend held a place in the esteem
and affections of his constituents and the country, which the
Noble Marquis might envy, but could not claim to share.--
Most unlike himself would his Hon. Friend have acted if any
athlition to his own domestic comfort and happiness could make
him forget the distresses of those for whom he had never ceased
to interest himself, or alter his sentiments with respect to the
cause of them. He (Mr. M‘Donald) had not heard the whole
of the speech of the Hon. Member for Suffolk, in consequence of
the Petition having been brought forward before the time at
which public business was usually entered upon. He regretted
this, knowing something of the County, and knowing that his
Honourable Friend had something to explain respecting him-
self. He wished to hear him, and should have been happy to
congratulate him on his having done justice to his constituents,
and completely vindicated himself. But it should seem that in
that House there was something like a spell set on Gentlemen,
which made them very different when they came there from
what they appeared to be elsewhere. lie had spoken of the
Meeting as having been very respectably attended. Speaking
thus, he had but described it as a mere parish meeting might be
described ; but the fact was, a meeting more remarkable for
attendance of persons of importance in the neighbourhood, and
for numbers, had never been held in the precincts of that county.
From 6to 8,000 persons had been present. The Hon. Member
had said, the Requisition had been carried about for six weeks
for signatures.
Mr. GOOCH said he had described the Requisition to have
been sent round for signatures, and to have been carefully con-
cealed from those whose political sentiments differed from the
politics of the Gentlemen by whom it was drawn up. It was
the Petition of which he had spoken in the terms just attributed
to him by the Hon. Member.
Mr. MACDONALD resumed. It was unfortunately one of
the circumstances of the present times that an opinion prevailed
it was all but useless to petition that House.. The farmer in
consequence, in many cases, would not goa hundred yards
frcm his own dwelling for the purpose of joining in a petition.
In the county of Cambridge, but the other day, a Resolution
had been come to, declaring that it was in vain to Petition
Parliament. The evils that oppressed the country were not
known to spring from any particular visitation of Provi-
dence, and therefore it was natural to conclude that they
had their origin in political mismanagement. But these pe-
titioners, it ought to be borne in mind, had never claimed to
be relieved at the expence of any other class of their
fellow-subjects. That which they called for was an unspar-
ing, uncompromising, severe system of retrenchment in the
public eXpenditure, and a proportionate reduction of taxa-
tion. The, petition attributed the evil to the right cause,
and declared the remedy could only be found in a reformed
House of Commons, which would supply a more efficient
check to the improvidence of the Government. The Hon.
Member for Suffolk (Mr. Gooch) had seemed to think with the
majority of the late M eeting. His professions of a determination
to call for retrenchment—his declarations in favour of economy
had filled the market place; but having retired from the Meet-
ing, he had soon returned to his old habits again. He did
not know whether it was from being flattered by the Noble
Marquis or some of his Colleagues, with the title of " the
leading Country Gentleinan," or from any other cause,
that when he had got into that House he had at once been
induced to catch at the shilling compromise of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, and closed the door, as far as depended on
him, against all further retrenchment. On the debate on the
Salt Tax, that abominable impost; the Hon. Gentleman, with
another Hon. Member who had indulged in similar professions,
might be said to have perpetuated that cruel, undefended, and
indefensible Tax. When he used the words "the leading country
Gentleman," he begged not to be understood as speaking dis-
paragingly of that character. But if the Country Gentlemen in
that house deviated from the course they were formerly accus-
tomed to pursue, to become on every occasion subservient to
the views of the Government, such conduct must eventually
lead to the annihilation of all their importance. The Chancellor
of the Exchequer, the recorder of the famous anti-depreciation
Resolutions, had come down to that House three years ago with
certain Resolutions declaratory of the importance of establishing
a clear Sinking Fund of five millions. That a surplus income
applicable to the reduction of the National Debt • was desir-
able; he would .admit;. but *hat hid heen conduct of the
Right Hon. Gentleman ? He, who had destroyed the Sinking
Fund of Mr. Pitt—whose name he had ever been ready to
glorify, had come down to the Honk with the Resolutions
to which he had adverted, after giving his sanction to a mea-
sure which could not fail of adding to the public burthens
whet wet 'equal to ten or twelve millions. He alluded to the
resumption of cash payments. What -did the Hon: Member
for Suffolk do on that occasion ? . When the Agricultural
Horse Tay came before the House he did not remember that
he had differed from the majority of the House, but he had
some slight recollection that the lion. ,Member had made use

of a homely, 'good, 'eollntry-gentlemanlike phrase, that they
could have no.moraof a cat than her skin." Now. the Hon.
Gentleman caught at the shilling on malt as the one thing
needful, as the only thing necessary. lie wished him to look us
the various sources of. expense—to the state of the Ciyil List,
to the salaries given, the pensions granted—and doing this, he
had no doubt that he would' find it was possible for a willing
Government, besides giving up the malt tax, to give up the
duty on salt: aye, and even the leather, and soap, and candle
duties also. But the Hon. Gentleman believed that Ministers
could not do this. Why- did he believe it ? Because they told
him so. In the same way they had formerly told him that
they could not go on without the Property Taxa This; how-
ever, had been given up, as-he believed it was found that the
country could not go on with it. . Then it was said that they
could not do without seven Lords of the Admiralty; but the
House the other night had very unceremoniously taken away
two of them, and now it was seen that Ministers were prepar-
ing to go on with five.. So, it' the House chose to make suni_
lar reductions in other establishments, it would be found that
Ministers would still be able to carry on the government Of the
country ; and those attached to them need not feel the slightest
alarm from an idea that they would give up their places. He
begged pardon for troubling the House so long. It was always
more agreeable to him to hear what others said than to speak
himself; but on the present occasion he thought it necessary to
state .what he had offered to the House. The present evils he
traced to that fatal measure, the Bank Restriction Act of 1797.
The remedy on which the House must fix its eye watthat
which would meet the evil, by, increased consumption and de.
a
mand. It was their bounden uty to keep faith with the pub-
lic creditor, and to. place our finances in such a situation that
the debt should be diminished rather than increased; but
public credit he would contend would not be secured by pro-
longing a state of things which threatened serious disturbances,
from the disposition to insubordination produced by distress on
the part of the people.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY would he sorry to
have expressed himself unsuitably on the subject before the
House, or to have treated the Hon. Member for Norfolk with
any disrespect. He had thought the Han. Gentleman had
made a good-humoured attack on that plan which he had
brought forward. It would have have been difficult for him to
answer seriously, without going into a wide field of argument,
and he had therefore wished to repel the attack with the same
good humour in which it had been made, while briefly stating
why he could not concur in the view taken of this subject by
the Hon. Gentleman.

Mr. GOOCH said, after the number of charges which had
been preferred against him, he hoped he might be allowed to
make some reply.
The SPEAKER remarked, the question now was, that the
Petition should lie on the table. If the Hon. Gentleman wish-
ed to move that it should he printed, he could speak at any
length on that question. If he objected to make such a motion,
the House would probably deviate from the usual course, and
permit him to reply.
Mr. GOOCH said he would move that the Petition should
be painted.
The Petition, which complained of Agricultural Distress,
prayed for a reduction of Taxes, and Parliamentary Reform,
was ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. GOOCH rose to move that it should be printed. Charges
had been preferred against him, as if he had committed some
great political crime. He had been spoken of as if he had
pledged himself to vote for the relieal of particular taxes.
He had done no such thing. He had said that he was as
anxious as his Hon. Friend could be to vote for the repeal of
all taxes that could be taken off consistent with the public
safety and good faith to the public creditor. The Honourable
Member said he had brought this Petition forward earlier than
the usual hour for public business. While he was absent that
day, his name had been called over by the Speaker. On his
entering the House it was called over a second time, and then
he presented the Petition rather sooner than he should other-
. wise have done. It was said that the people of England were
convinced of the necessity of an immediate Reform of that
House. He believed the people were misled out of doors, aid
induced to take up this opinion; but the opinion of the com-
munity at large was widely different. It was asked who
would now petition that House, and it was said the farmer
would hardly go a hundred yards for that purpose. Yet
in the same breath they were told how numerously the late
• meeting had been att2nded—Eiglit thousand persons having
been present. For his general conduct in Parliament, he
had only to say, he wanted nu instructions from the Honour-
. able Gentleman. So long as the people of Suffolk were
pleased to send him to that House, unshackled, as they had
hitherto sent him, he would perform his duty. The lion.
Member for Norfolk had talked of the pleasing measures of
the Noble Marquis, as if these led those who voted with
Mi-
nisters to lay aside their judgment. This reminded him of a
foolish incident which had occurred a few days ago. He hap-
pened to 'be shooting with a gamekeeper a few days back,
who had a dog with him w;tiich suddenly broke away-and pur-
sued a hare. This was a great fault, as every Gentleman
who went shooting well knew. But the gamekeeper, however,
found it excusable, remarking, « Why you know, Sir, a hare
is the most enticing vermin in the world except a woman."—
(A laugh.)—He supposed the Hon. Gentleman would be in-
clined to add; " and except the Noble Marquis and the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer."—(Laughter.)
The Petition was ordered to be printed.
A message from the Lords announced their Lordships" assent
to Irish Population Bill.
POST OFFICE REGULATIONS.
Mr. HUME did not wish to detain the House, but he was
anxious to give a notice. Hon. Gentlemen were well aware of
the importance of the Post Office Establishment. It cost the
' country 617,0001. annually. Accounts of the disbursements of
this sum ought to be laid before the House. lie was not aware
that such returns had been given since 1797. The annual re.
venue of the Post Office was 1,592,0001., the expenditure
617,0001. The expence of collecting the revenue which he
had mentioned was very different in England from what
it was in Ireland. In England it was collected at 25, in
Ireland at not less than 64 per cent. lie hail reason to ex-
pect that a great saving might be effected in this collec-
tion. One object that lie had in view was to obtain a re-
turn of the number of Postmasters in England, Ireland, and
Scotland. He then wished to do away with all improper
allowances. The Post-office regulations seemed to him as r-
feet and complete as those of any public office could be. Inc
individual who conducted it, in his opinion, deserved all he re-
ceived from his situation. He had therefore nothing to say
against Mr. Freeling. There was another subject which he
wished to bring before the House. It had been determined
that newspapers should pass free of postage in this country,
but the privilege did not extend to the Colonies. News-
papers could not be sent there without paying for a daily
paper 51. ,55.—;for a weekly paper, 21. 2s. The sums thus
charged were kept separate from the general revenue of
the Post-office, at an establishment in Sherborne-lane, and the
emoluments of certain officers were derived from that. He
objected first to these individuals being thus remunerated. He
thought they ought to icceive fixed salaries, according to the
duties which they had to perform ; and secondly, he objected
to loading every newspaper with a duty, as it hurt the circula-
tion of newspapers, and thus injured the Stamp Duty. If this
charge were taken off, he thought the Stamp Duty on Papers
sent out would be increased by nearly half its present amount ;
while at the same time a great accommodation would be afford-
,ed to readers in the Colonies. He had next to naticethe heavy
duties on Foreign Newspapers. A French paper, the cost of
which was trifling—about 72 francs a year, he believed was
charged at the Post-office, 22L All foreign periodical publi-
cations were taxed in the same manner, and thus that dillesien
of knowledge was opposed, which it onght to be the object of
Government to promote. He hoped the duties to which he
had called the attention of the House would be given up, as he
thought this might be done, not only without injury but with
advantage to the revenue. The honourable Member then
moved for the following Papers :
" An Account of the Establishment of the General Post
Office in Eagland ; stating the names, the office, and the amount
of salary, fees and allowance of every kind, received by each
person whose salary is" above 1001. a year, and whether they ho:d
any other and what offices, pensions, or emoluments, and the
amount received for each ; and also, the number of regular ser-
vants receiving less than 1001. a year, and the amount of pay
and allowances to them in classes or departments ; also, , the
amount of contingent expences of the Post Office, under sepa-
rate heads, and the total, for the Year ending January 1822.
" A similar Return, for Scotland.—A similar Return, for
Ireland.

A StPtemeit of the rate per cent. or scale of allowances, to
the Deputy Pottmasters in England, for receiving betters and
dispatching the :Mails.—The same for Scotland and. Ireland.
" An Account of the number of Newspapers sold, or trans-
mitted abroad, in 11110, 1817, and 1821, by any of the Offiverst

and Clerks under. the Pcastmaster General ; distinguishing those
printed daily, twice or three times a week ; the number sent to
Foreign Countries, to the British Dominions at the Cape and
in India, and to his Majesty's Colonies in the West Indies and
North America; the price annually chargod for each News-
papersent to each of those destinations, and the total amount
received for all in each year.
" A similar Account of all British Magazines, Reviews, Ste.
" A similar Acccountof all Foreign Newspapers sold in the
United Kingdom by the same Officers and Clerks.
" A Statement of the total amount received at the General
Post Office for the transmission of Newspapers, Journals, Ma-
gazines, and Reviews, English and Foreign, and any other
charges not credited to the Public Revenue, in each of the years
1818, 111/, and 1821, and how distributed or expended; dis-
tinguistamg to whom paid in each of those years.
" A .Return of all Pensions, Superannuation or Retired Al-
lowances, paid from the Post Office Revenues in the year end-
ing the tith January 1822 ; stating the name, and amount to
each person, and the dates of grant of every Pension or Super-
annuated or Retired Allowances."

Viese Papess were ordered.
COLONIES.
Mr. FIUME Moved, that an humble address be presented to
his Ma.iesty, praying that he will be pleased to give directions
. that there be laid on the table of that House, an account of the
total expenditure incurred by Great Britain in the new colonies
Of Ceylon, the .11auritins .Malta, Trinidad, Demerara, and
Berbice, distinguishing the expenditure of the naval, military,
and civil departments, for the years 1820 and 1821. He made
this motion for the purpose of submitting a proposition to the
House relative to the expenditure of those colonies, as soon as
the returns he moved for were laid upon the table.
Mr. WiLMOT Wa3 informed that the Hon. Gentleman had
yesterday moved for sundry papers, and he understood that he
had said lie would not shew him (Mr. Wilmot) the courtesy of
a notice, as he did not consider him to be entitled to it. He
(Mr: Wilmot) did not understand on what principle cour-
tesey was to be shewn but on that of regard for the conveni-
ence of the House. But he begged to explain the situa-
tion in which he must stand if the lion. Gentleman refused to

spew accustomed courtesy. not to himself personally, but to
the individual filling the office which he had the honour to hold.
,44. t the commencement of the Session he had taken the liberty
-a informing the Hon. Gentleman that if he would communi-
cate to him any motion he intended to make, he would be pre-
pared by the ensuing day to give him an answer as to whether it
would be resisted or not.

Lord FOLKESTONE spoke to order. lie thought it must
be felt that it was very inconvenient to the House to have its
time taken up with private courtesies or private altercations.
Mr. WILNIOT was sorry that the Noble Lord supposed
him to intruding on the House a case of private courtesy.—
He founded what he said on regard for public convenience.—
if the Hon. Gentleman persisted in his resolution he might
find himself obliged to oppose the production of some papers
from not knowing what they were, which otherwise he might
be well disposed to give. He thought it due to. the House to
ltate the situation in which he should be placed, if the Hon.
Gent. denied him the usual courtesy of a notice. He had no
no objection to the production of the papers now voted for.
Lord FOLKESTONE again remarked on the irregularity of
refemng to what had passed in a former debate.
Mr. C. W. WYNN said it would be irregular to allude to

-whatb;Arssed on a former night, but he might suppose a case.
He would suppose an .Hon. Gentleman getting up to move for
papers in the absence of any one connected with the depart-
•ment from which they were to come. In such a case it would
be better for the convenience of the House that the party
should wait till some one was there to say whether or not the
papers could be given.
Ir. CALCRAFT stated it to be in such a case the invaria-
,
ble practice to wait till some one arrived who could. give an
au sorer:= ( Hear !)
Dr. PHILLIVORE observed this was not the invariable
-practice, as it had been deviated from on the preceding night.=
..(Hear, hear !)—The motion was agreed to.