The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-27 00:00:00

was quite disorderly, totally unparliamentary, and he
Legged him to reconsider it.
Mr. GRATTAN's only wish was to refute the charges
made against him. The only object which his
friends and himself had in view in forming what
had been designated a cabal, was the pacifi-
cation of Ireland, which he for one considered
would be best effected by the gradual reduction of
the Irish yeomanry. He considered the attack of the
Yeomanry on the unfortunate individuals at Newtown-
barry a shame and disgrace to them.
Captain GORDON should have thought it his duty to
comply with the recommendations of the Right Hon. Se-
cretary for Ireland, if they had not been accompanied by
a statement the most singular he had ever heard. That
Right Honourable Gentleman had said that the state-
ment of the Honourable Member for Wexford ought
to satisfy every individual in that House. He begged
to ask that Right Hon. Gentleman whether the words
unprovoked, deliberate, and premeditated massacre, ought to
satisfy every individual in that House. The Hon. Mem-
I er for Kerry, who had expressed his detestation of what
had occurred at New townbarry, seemed to have entirely lost
sight of the dreadful murders perpetrated in the south
parts of Ireland. The Ilonourable Member had also as-
sorted that he conceived Ireland ought not to be governed
by party. In that sentiment he entirely concurred. But
this he must say, that he would much rather see Ireland
governed by the most degraded party on earth, than by the
party of the Honourable Member fur the county of Kerry.
The Hon. Member said he was surprised, after so much
of inflammatory harangue, and after such irritating topics
had been dwelt upon, to hear a beseeching cry that
the business should be proceeded in no further to-
night.—(Hear) He could only say in reply, that so
long as such gross misrepresentation and delusion wereu t-
tered in that House, and transferred from thence to the
public Press, through which it was promulgated speedily in
every hamlet and village in England, he would not pass it
quietly by come from whom it might.—(Cheers.) Before
lie sat down, he begged to advert to a subject which was
under discussion on a former night. He had then asserted
that the Grand Jury of Carlow had not drank certain toasts
which they had been charged with, and the Right Hon.
Secretary for Ireland confirmed it. But there appeared
to be some doubt in the minds of some Hon. Members,
whether at a later period of the evening, when but few of
the Grand Jury were present, those toasts had not been
proposed. He had now the pleasure to inform the House
that he had received a denial that such was the case front
all of the Grand Jury.
Mr. JEPHSON deprecated the speeeh of the Right
Hon. Member for Harwich (Mr. Dawson) as one of a most
irritating nature, and as likely to be productive of serious
injury in Ireland. The Right Hon. Gentleman had curl-,
founded the people of Ireland with a great caulk of
misery, in that country, for many years past. That
Right Hon. Gentleman had also cast an aspersion upon
the body of gentlemen who had thought proper to repre-
sent the present state of Ireland to the Prime Minister;
he (Mr. Jephson) asked if those gentlemen would have
performed their duty to Ireland, if they had not repre.
sented what they conceived to be was great injustice
in that country ? He begged it to be understood that the
representation made to the Minister was done in the most
friendly spirit, and not with any view of holding out
threats.

Mr. SHEIL said he was surprised at the reiterated as-
sertions which fell from Hon. Members on that (the Op-
position) side of the House upon this subject, coupled, as
they usually were, with a good deal of somewhat suspici-
ous commentary. Upon the subject of the yeomanry no
Irishman could be a proper witness, for they were all, en
either side of the question, imbued too deeply with party
feeling to judge dispassionately. He would not ask the
House to take his opinion upon the subject, but he thought
he might ask them to take the opinion of Colonel Verner,
the head of the Orangemen of Ireland. In the examine.
tion of the Colonel before the House of Peers he acknow-
ledged that no Catholic was admitted into the yeomanry of
the county of Fermanagh.—(The Hon. Member here read
the evidence of Colonel Verner, taken before the Lords'
Committee in support of his assertion.) lie thought the
deputation was a well-judged step, for the purpose of
stating to the Government the feelings of the Irish Mem-
mbearks,i
nagn dt
hteh uhsi
osaving
Ctloi emwmaosnt es
tot! e t idma
iel
ycothnesaeqt
reuenotf upon
their
deb rtes upon Irish subjects.-.-(Hear, hear,) With respect
to what had been said about not insulting the yeomanry,
he would say that he desired no such thing ; but, at the
same time, he would say that the cbject ought not to be
to conciliate the yeomanry for an hour, hut to satisfy the
nation for an age.--(Hear.)
Lord KILLEEN said that the deputation were said by
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dawson) to be a cabal,
and that their object was to beard the Prime Minister.
He could assure the House, however, that be formed part
of that deputation with no such view, and Government
were aware of that fact. He had not signed the original
paper addressed to Lord Grey, because there were obsera
vations in it of which be disapproved. When Lord Grey did
consent to receive the deputation, be (Lord Killeen) was
asked to go also, and be felt that in the exercise of his duty
to his constituents he could not refuse acceding to the re-
quest. It was unjust to say that they were led by the
Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry, for many of the de-
putation differed essentially from that Hon. and Learned
1 Member on very important questions ; and upon one, per-
-1 haps the most important, be would not say that he had yet
become a convert to the opinion of the Hon. and Learned
Member for Kerry. Having consented to become the
spokesman of the deputation, he stated to Lord Grey that
the continual debates in the House of Commons upon Irish
topics were an injurious waste of that time which should be
devoted to the one all-engrossing subject, And that the Irish
Members then present had thought it an advisable course
to communicate their feelings peramasily to him upon those
subjects. He also assured his Lordship that the step was
undertaken with the moat friendly spirit towards the Go-
vernment, or he would not have formed one of the deputaa
tion—(Hear, hear.) It was astonishing how very sensi-
tive the Iligbt Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dawson) was at any
annoyance offered to the Government by any other person
than himself. He appeared to think that persons offering
such annoyance were poaching upon his manor--(A
laugh.) In coneluaiou, he would observe that the yeo-
manry of Irelaod was a party force, and, therefore, unsuited
to that country ; and if it was at all desirable that the
Vision between the countries should he preserved, it could
only Le done by distributing justice impartially, and not
by arming one portion of the community against an-
other.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. RUTHVEN was satisfied to leave it to the Go-
vernment to make such modifications of the yeomanry force
as, upon consideration, they should see to be expedient.
He thought it inconsistent with propriety and with Parlia-
mentary usage to speak of any body of gentlemen in the
language applied by the Right Hon. Member for Harwich
to the deputatlett to Lord Grey. It was unbecoming to
taunt thtee gentlemen with having gone to beard the Mi-
nister, whereas in fact they waited on him in a respectful
manner, and with the most friendly intention, to prevent
angry discussions being continually renewed in the Houser
He (Mr. Buthven) had no doubt that it would have
been ow
with a
thieotatever pleucahseesd),mhaandytgheendtleepmuetnatiboenlobw him (on the Opposi..,
factious spirit; but because the gentlemen who composed
it came back to that House to give the Ministers their
support in tucasares which had the good of the people for
their o*ct, the Right Hon. Gentleman no doubt was
til,sappointed and displeased.--(Hear, hear.)
Mr. LAMBERT said that the manner in which he had
brought up the petition seemed to have given very different
satisfaction to different Members. The Right Hon.
Secretary for Ireland praised his moderation, whilst the
Von, Member for Dundalk accused him as having made an
ittidatodariste and violent speech. He could net hear the
attacks which had been male upon the Hon. and Learned
Member for Kerry without expressing hit deep sense, as
an Irishman, of the services which that gentleman bad
rendejed to his country. —(Hear.) He had expressed no
sweeping censure of the yeomanry, nor cast upon them, as
had been said, any insult as a body..__( Hear.) But he
agreed in the op-Aeon of the most experienced friends of
Ireland, that it was the very last force that ought to be
mployed in Ireland ; and he hoped that the Government
I would place it in a state of what be would call (to use an
Irish phrase) wholeaosne decay—(A laugh)—and that they
would bogie its gradual abolition with the reduction of the
Wexford eorps.—(Hear.) As the Hon. Member for Dun-
t dalk was indignant that the affiaty at Newtownbarry should
be called a massacro, be (Mr. Lambert) would mention
to the House only one incident, which he had learned from
a Protestant gentleman of the highest respectability and
of extensive property, who, however, was not a relation
of any of the yeomanry or magistrates who had been con-
nected in the transaction....(Hear, bear.) Immediately
after the horrible .recurrence le saw a wretched husband
leaning over the body of his wife, whose womb had been
torn by these butchers--her murdered child protruding ,
from it. There were several persons who had seerrledthaatt
woman deliberately aimed at by a yeoman, who the by., <-4Z1.1
her, disregarding the cry of shame that burst f:
standees.hear—a hear)—and
yethere
whilstcould beth
the
no j
Judged
it
upon the spot, the assassin wra:rw
day unmolested, and the mu abroad in ~..„,„,
, was to this l'..ur un.l lA,
..e.,
panished.—(Hear.)
unwilling to take up the time -:7l+L
Mr. O'CONNELL was
of the House, DOT would lie do so had itc out been per..
were
grtehesifaing (armemart; ~.,,:,..)