The Sun.
London, England, 1825-03-24 00:00:00

first time.

Mr. PEEL said, before the Bill was read a first time, he was
anxious to know whether it was drawn up, in conformity with
the petition presented by the lion. Baronet on the first of
March ?

Sir F. BURDETT (as we understood) said the Bill was
founded on the Resolution of the House of Commons, the ten-
dency of which was to consider the propriety of abolishing
those oaths by which his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects
were precluded from accepting offices under the Crown.

Sir T. LETHDRIME said, that although it was not in
accordance with the opinion of his Right Hon. Friend oppo-
site (Mr. Peel), in whom all those who agrreed with him had,
or ought to have, the most implicit faith and confidence, still
he could not allow even the first reading of this Bill to pass
without entering his solemn protest against the principle it con-
tained, which he conceived to be at variance with the spirit
of the Constitution. It would be highly presumptuous in him
at that moment to enter into the details of the measure, but
he should be deserting his duty if he did not protest against
its very introduction. If he could collect rightly what bad
been said by the lion. Bart. the Bill was founded on the Reso-
lution passed some nights since by the House of Commons.—
The question was brought forward by the Hon. Member for
Westminster with all the force and weight of his peculiar ta-
lents, and undoubtedly with a degree of candour and judgment
most creditable to himself and advantageous to the cause; but
it was imposible to shut one's ears to the rumours that were
abroad, namely, that a Bill was to be brought down to the House
of Commons not founded merely on the resolutions of the House,
but containing other principles of the most important .nature.
The one related to the suggestion thrown out by the Honour-
able Secretary to the Admiralty (Mr. Croker)—a principle
which, although familiar to those who were in the habit of con-
sidering the question attentively, was still new to the House of
Commons—he meant the.establishment of a pecuniary provi-
sion for the Roman Catholic -Clergy. Public rumour had
stated, that there was another province to be mixed up with
it, which affected the elective franchise.—(No, no! from Sir
Francis Burdett and many Members near him.)—Well. he
was glad to know that no such provisions were introduced.—
The measure, therfore, he now understood, went only to the
alteration of the Test Act—to the omission of certain words,
which would have the effect of making that oath palatable to
persons professing the Roman Catholic religion. There was,
therefore, no objection to it on the ground of any novelty;
yet still he felt all the objections which he felt to the principle
of the bill, and which he had uniformly avowed, still irremov-
able. Undoubtedly, on the last discussion, be had heard argu-
ments of the most fascinating kind advanced in its support, and
new and most able views of the question taken by its support-
ers, but still lie must conscientiously declare, that they were not
sufficient to get his assent to such a change in the Constitution.
New lights, it was said, were thrown every day upon it, but he
regretted that they were not brought into such a focus as to
make every body masters of the subject. Roman Catholic
Bishops of the greatest talent, of the most profound learning,
were, it was understood, examined before Committees of Par-
liament ; and it was generally rumoured that the effect of their
examinations was of a character that would astonish the former
opponents of Catholic concession, and trip up not only every
objection in that quarter, but actually opinions which it was
supposed the Roman Catholics had themselves entertained.—
Amongst those examined he (Sir T. Lethbridge) spoke from
second hand, was a most Learned Divine and a very emi-
nent man, Dr. Doyle, the author of certain publications which
appeared under the signature of J.K.L. These writings he
(the Member for Somersetshire) had read, and he looked upon
them as something like the authoritative opinions of that very
able and most Reverend Doctor. But now he understood that
we were to prepare ourselves for a new system, for an entire
change of doctrine. If all that were true, the opposition
would rest altogether on new grounds ; and as formerly the ob-
jection was founded on the religious doctrine of Popery would
so far be weakened in its operation. He should not, in the
present stage, take the sense of the House on the motion. He
felt it his duty to protest against its principle—he admitted
that an apparent apathy was manifested out of doors on the
subject—(hear, hear, hear from many parts of the House);_
he sincerely regretted it, but he was persuaded that it was not
in unison with the true feelings of the country.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said :hat he did not wish, in the pre-
sent stage of the Bill, to provoke any discussion, at the same
time that he was anxious to guard himself from the impres-
sion, that by
not taking the seTseof
teas
stlethei House in its first stage
his opposition was relaxed it
w
who introduced the Bill, to defer the due,
courtesy to these
discussion to the second
reading. Indeed, in this case, it was due to the recorded de-
sire of that House, because the present Bill was introduced by
the Hon. Baronet in pursuance of its resolution and
opportunity to state,
order.—
(Hear, hear !)—He took, however, that
principle—that he was prepared
that his opinions on the measure remained unchanged—that he
should continue to oppose its
hear ! )—and that he should,
House upon it. ,
to accept no comprorntsete'tlri;
sense
Ofthe
on the second reading, take

But if the principle of the Bill were carried, he still trusted that
even Honourable Members who supported that principle would
attend to the Committee, and attentively discuss it in its de-
tails. These details would be of the greatest importance, par-
ticularly when it was notified to the country that the Bill or-
dered by that House to be introduced, and which was to grant
security to the Protestants, was drawn by Mr. O'Connell, the
Leader of that very Catholic Association which Parliament had
that very Session found it necessary to put down.--( Hear,
hear !)—The House would feel it necessary, under such cir-
cumstances, of minutely attending to the details of the Bill.
Mr. TIERNEY admitted that the conduct of the Right
Hon. Secretary (Mr. Peel) was both consistent and candid.--
As one of the Committee selected by that House to introduce
the present Bill, he felt himself called upon to say, that the
drawing it up was not delegated to any individual whomsoever.
For his own part, he most unequivocally assured the House,
that with those Gentlemen belonging to the Roman Catholic
Body who came to England, he never had one single minute's
conversation either on the religious or the political part of the
question : he had carefully avoided it. Having assisted in
drawing up the present Bill, lie also declared that he did not
know or believe that any other Gentleman belonging to those
who were employed by that House to prepare the Bill gave
any such authority. At the same time he believed that Mr.
O'Connell was incapable of stating an untruth—(Hear!)—
and the circumstance might be thus explained. Some Gentle-
men had probably a Conversation on the subject with Mr.
O'Connell; and, having heard his views, expressed a wish to
have them stated in writing ; but that any real or formed in-
struction had been given, or that any delegation had been
made by those entrusted by that House with the introduction of
the Bill, he most positively denied.—(Hear
Mr. Secretary PEFL observed, that he had'no other autho-
rity for his statement but the publication of a letter in the
public prints, signed Daniel O'Connell, and which had not since
been denied.

Lord HOTHAIII (as we understood) stated, that he should
not support the second reading of the Bill, unless it provided
an allowance for the Roman Catholic Clergy, and altered the
elective qualification in respect to the 40 shilling freeholders.
Mr. TIERNEY begged to remind the Noble Lord, that
the present Bill was introduced pursuant to the Resolution of
that House. On the points to which the Noble Lord adverted
.

no instruction had been given to them. In not coupling them
with the present Bill there was no dereliction on their part.
Indeed, had they so blended them, they would have acted in-
consistent with their duty. It was, however, open to any Hon.
Member to introduce provisions directed to those objects.
The question was then put, and the Bill was read a first
time.

Sir FRANCIS BURDETT then stated, that after due con-
sideration, he felt himself bound to fix the second reading for
Thursday, the 14th of April next.
Mr. ESTCOURT lamented that the Hon. Baronet felt him-
self bound to persevere in his original intention. The very
day on which that great question was fixed, occurred in that
one week in the year when country Gentlemen were called upon
to attend the Quarter Sessions of their respective counties.
That of itself was one reason for delay, and though he himself
acquitted the lion. Baronet and the supporters of the measure
of any unworthy motive, yet the country at large would be apt
to'conclude, if the discussion was pressed on, that it was done
so with the view of taking advantage of the absence of those
who would have opposed it. It was a measure of that impor-
tance which should be prepared in the fullest manner, and
digested with the greatest care. - No injurious eacts could fol-
low
an extension of tfie time for four days.
Mr. SYKBS said, he knew that both from himself and nu-
merous other Members, various representations had been made j

to his Hon. Friend (Sir F. Burdett) to postpone the discussion
according to their respective views of convenience; and though
no one who knew his Hon. Friend's characieristic disposition
to oblige better than himself, yet he felt that it was necessary
to adhere to his original intention. As to the Quarter Sessions)
they could, by law, be holden by adjournment.
Mr. C. WILSON considered it unwise either to exclude
these Gentlemen from the discussion on so momentous a ques-
tion, or to deprive their respective counties of their attendance
at the Quarter Sessions. sHe should move, therefore, as an
amendment, that the second reading of the Bill be fixed for the
20th of April.
Mr. CALCR AFT expressed a strong desire that they should
proceed unanimously ; and as a general feeling was expressed
to have the discussion deferred from the first week after the
recess to the second, he trusted that his Hon. Friend would
accede. It was most unusual, the first day after a recess, to
have a Call of the House. Three or four delays in the present
state of the Session could not be attended with any inconveni-
ence in jlie proceedings of the House of Lords.
Mr. Secretary PEEL trusted, that the Honourable Baronet,
whose whole private life evinced such a disposition to candour
and honourable dealing, would feel the necessity of postponing
the discussion to such a period as would allow the fullest at-
tendance. A number or the Irish Members were absent at the
Assizes ; they were naturally anxious to be present at the dis-
cussion. The greater portion of them would most probably
take a different side of the question from him (Mr. Peel).—
This was at least a proof that he did not seek for delay or any
undue impression. The discussion might take place on the
Tuesday in the second week after the recess, and the Bill
might be committed on the Friday following. All other bu-
siness could be postponed to that most important question.—
(Hear, hear !)
Sir F. BURDETT said lie trusted the House would give
him credit for a desire to meet the wishes of all parties, with a
just view to a sense of public duty. As, however, such a feel-
ing for further postponment was manifested, lie should comply
with it—(hear, hear !)—and lix the second reading for Tues.
day, the 19th of April.
On the motion of Sir .1. NEWPORT, the Call of the House
was fixed for Monday, the 18th of April.
Greeme's Divorce Bill went through a Committee, in which
Counsel were heard for and againct the Bill.
Mr. SYKES presented a petition from the Owners of Ships
in Hull, praying that Parliament would adopt means for the
vigorous prosecution of the Herring Fishery.
Mr. 81 KES moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend- the
Act of the 7th and Bth of William 111. c. 6, relative to the re-
covery of Small Tithes and Ecclesiastical Dues. The Hon.
Gentleman observed, that by the existing law, although a Cler-
gyman was authorised to bring his claim for tithes under 101.
before two Magistrates for decision, yet it was prOvided that
neither of those Magistrates should be the Patron of the living.
It sometimes happened, however, that in a parish there were not
more than two resident Magistrates,of whom one was the Patron
of the Living, and the object of his Bill was to remedy the in-
convenience thereby created.
Mr. D. GILBERT confessed that he was not quite satisfied
as to the merits of the Honourable Gentleman's proposition, and
recommended that at least permission should be granted by the
Bill to remove the claim for the consideration of the Magistrates
of any neighbouring district.
Mr. SYKES replied, that he meant so to frame the Bill, that
it should be open to the.partiea to adopt the course recommended
by the Honourable Gentleman.
Leave was then granted to bring in the Bill.
Sir J. YORKE presented a petition, for the 16th time, from
the brother of a Lieutenant Eyre, who, in the year 1781, had
captured booty to the amount of a million sterling, at a Dutch
settlement in the East Indies, of zhich, however, he had been
immediately afterwards dispossessed by a military force be-
longing to the East India Company, complaining that the claim
of his brother upon the Company in consequence, amounting to
between three and four hundred thousand pounds, had never
been paid, although allowed by the Treasury, and praying for
redress.
Mr. HUME observed, that it was very extraordinary that a
claim which had been so long agitated had not yet been set at
that if he had been apprised of the
rest in some way or other; There were many other cases of
petition, be would have. pre-
paredprize-money in which the captors had not yet received their
Just demands.
himself on the subject. Of course he, could not be
l intentionr
supposed to know any thing
about it • without previous in-
quiry ; but it did not appear to him likely that a claim which
.llEtoßßprleEseSntsasibide, h
had been resisted far above forty years rested on any very
strong foundation.
After a few. words from Sir F. ra
N.MIVIANNEY and Mr.
ForinES. the petition was ordered to lie on the table. .
Mr. BERRIES brought in a Bill to repeal and amend the
Quarantine Laws, which was read a first time, and ordered to
be read a second time on Monday.
Dir. BERRIES gave notice, in the name of his Right Hon.
Friend the Chief Scretary for Ireland, that on the 15th of
Friend would move the 316 u
April his Right lion. Irish •ce a-
neous Estimates in the Committee of auppiv.
The other Orders of the Day were then -aisimed of, and the
House adjourned.

POPERY.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.

- -
Sin—The partizans of the present Govern-
ment have, it is true, little need to stoop from their
triumphant eminence to look at the strugglingS Of
what would be Opposition : strugglings which are
but the convulsions of advancing death, ai
which occasionally inform us that the appirently
lifeless mass before us still retains a solitary
spark of animation. If Opposition had but one
life, •it would be only due charity not to molest
her expiring agonies )vith unseasonable expo-
sures : but as she is an Hydra, it may not he
amiss even now to spew her in her true colours,
and put on their guard those well-intentionitd
per!ons, wlio may yield themselves during some
of her future lives, if not to her violence, yet to
her sophistry.
Read the following paragraph which appeared
in the Chronicle :

" With respect to the paying the Irish Catholic Clergy by
the State, the measure has our decided approbation. We are
certain that the public money never was laid out on a more de-
sirable object than the one in question. OF COURSE, roe
should prefer paying them out of the excessive Revenues
of the Irish Protestant Church ; hut we cannot obtain
that object at present, and there is no reason why we
should decline a benefit because it might still be made
more extensive. Pay the Catholic Clergy, by all means; nay,
pay them well. The part of the plan of which we least approve
is the alloWing the clergy to take any fee at all from their flocks.
We would much rather that they received at once so much froiaa
the State as to leave them no pretext for taking any fees ; and,
having thus freed them from the necessity of receiving any
thing from their flocks, the Legislature might prohibit all fees,
oblations, &c. under a severe penalty. At present the Catholic
Priest has a direct interest in promoting marriages, and other-
wise adding to the misery of the people. The Scripture says,
the heart of man is deceitful above all things, and desperately
wicked, and Catholic Priests being men, have, of course, their
share of the failing of humanity. However anxious they may
be for the spiritual welfare of their flocks, it is natural that they
should have an eye occasionally to their own temporal welfare.
God forbid that we should say that many Catholic Priests do.
not act in the most disinterested manner, but in reasoning with
regard to whole classes of men, we must consider the motives
which are likely to weigh with the majority. That a better ar_
rangement than that which has been announced might be de.
vised we are sufficiently aware; but if the best arrangement
cannot be obtained, that is no reason why we should reject the
best which we can obtain, more especially when almost any
arrangement of the question will be a benefit to the country.
The fact is, that THE GRAND DIFFICULTY BEGINS WHEN
EMANCIPATION IS OBTAINED. IF AFTER SUCH AN

EVENT YOU SUOULD GO TO MUNSTER AND TELL TIM

SLAVING PEASANT HE IS NOW EAIANCIPATED, WHEN

THE FIRST FEELING OF JOY SUBSIDES, FIE WILL STi

lIIIVISELY SURROUNDED BY THE SAME MISERY BY WHICH
HE IS AT PRESENT SURROUNDED. But though Emanci-
pation cannot relieve the distress of the poor peasant, it re,"
moves out of the way a subject, the agitation of which serves
to keep us from the consideration of the great evil. It is of the
utmost moment that the attention of the public should not he
withdrawn from the consideration of the social malady, by dis-
putes which must be terminated before we can think of the
steps which are to be taken, either with regard to a cure, or
the ascertaining that the malady is beyond the skill of the poli-
tical phystrian."

On this, I wish to make a very few remarks.
First then of all, we have the great organ of
that party which calls itself Liberal adopting the
creed of a man whose unprincipled rejection of
every moral and legal obligation they themselves
have so often denounced—who would have com-
pelled the country to adopt his own pernicious
example, and defraud the public creditor. The
Liberal of the Morning Chronicle would coolly
pillage the Irish church to enrich the Papists
How would he like his arguments to be applied
to his own case, and be told that it was a great pity
Parliament did not seize the miserable profits of
his own dirty vocation, and appropriate them to
the interests of some Constitutional paper, as
yours for example ? Certainly, this would be in
all respects as fair and honourable as the case
which this Liberal gentleman regrets to his ever-
lasting infamy.

The next circumstance which strikes us in this
remarkable passage is, the manner in which; the
scribbler speaks of the Popish clergy. On all
occasions, where foreign politics are to be treated
of, the Popish clergy always receive their
share of abuse at his hands, becaZ••,e, on MOSt
casions, they take part with existing govertnnentc.
In the present case, however, our hero knows his
men, and therefore" the public money never. Was
lai out on a more desirable object than the one
[that] in question."
This total want of honour anthconsistency is
followed up by an instacce of imbecility, whitb
can only be accounted for by the adage:—

Quos Jupiter ♦ult perdere, deuieutat prius.

What shall we think of an advocate of" Catholic
Emancipation," who, at such a crisis as this can
breathe the incontestible, but fatal, truth, that
" the .grand difficulty begins when Emancipation
Is obtained ?" But " fas est et ab• hoste
Nothing can be more essentially true than what
this clumsy bungler has let out ; and let
,us
not be cajoled throUgh our zeal for the improve-
ment of Ireland into a measure, which, by the con-
fession of its own advocates, is so far from adapted
to the end in view, that it is only the beginning
of difficulties. Surely the people of England will
require something more to induce them to resign
the securities of their church and Constitution,
than the arguments of a deliberate advocate of
robbery—who tells them, at the same time, their
concessions will do no good.

BRITANNO.