The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-13 00:00:00

have some persons who understood its necessities and
sympathised with its wants. He should first state,
then, what he intended to do with respect to the first di-
vision of his proposed improvements—the qualification of
masters and mates. At present there was a system of
voluntary examination for these officers, and he thought
that this had been productive of much good, but he had
no hesitation in stating, after the experience he had had,
that it was not sufficient. Without going into any detail,
or making any particular charges, he would say that these
examinations were not always exactly what they ought
to be. Well, then, with regard to this part of the subject, he
proposed in future that these examinations should be
entirely under the superintendence of the Board
of Trade, and that this department of mer-
cantile marine, which he proposed to establish
in it, should grant certificates of three kinds.
He proposed in future that every master and mate, pre-
vious to his being entrusted with the command of a
vessel, should be obliged to pass an examination and to
obtain one of those certificates. At the same time that
he proposed that system for the future, he thought it
would be inexpedient, unjust, and almost impossible, to
apply this system to masters and mates who were already
in service, seeing it to be unlikely that their education
could have embraced many of those qualifications
which will probably be insisted on under the proposed
system of examination. Ho would propose, therefore,
at first, that all that any merchant or mate in command
of a merchant vessel should be required to do should be
to go to this mercantile marine department and obtain a
certificate, not of qualification, but of service either in
the mercantile marine or in that of the East India Com-
pany, and that that certificate should entitle him to the
command of a merchant vessel. He also held that in future
any merchant captain, who should be satisfactorily
proved to have misconducted himself, should be de-
prived of his certificate, whether it was one of service
or of qualification. Perhaps, on that part of the sub-
ject, be might mention that he proposed in cases of gross
misconduct, attended with loss of life or property, on
the part of a merchant captain, that that should consti-
tute a misdemeanour, and that he should be brought to
answer for it before the tribunals of the country.—
(Hear, hear.) He believed, from the communications he
had had from shipowners on this subject that that
would constitute a very important guarantee to the
shipowner against the misbehaviour of the captain. He
now came to the remaining branches of this subject ; he
meant the discipline of the crew and the condition of the
seamen. lie believed a great deal depended on the
character of the agent employed in drawing up
a contract between the sailor and his employer,
and some material improvement on the present
system should be adopted —(Hear.) He proposed
to substitute for the present system of licensed agents
shipping officers who should be public officers estab-
lished at our principal ports, through" whose instru-
mentality those contracts should be carried out. He had
received remonstrances from almost every port in Eng-
land on the extent to which the crimping system pre-
vailed; and to such a degree had it obtained at Quebec
that the Colonial Assembly of Canada had
established public responsible shipping officers
at their ports, by whom those contracts between
the sailor and his employer should be conducted in order
to put an end to that crimping system. The condition
of the sailor has been greatly ameliorated since that re-
gulation came in force, and the trade, which was con-
ducted in a way scandalous to the country, was now
carried on with an infinitely greater degree of satisfac-
tion. Such a regulation would go far to remedy evils of
a similar nature in this country. He proposed, therefore,
that shipping officers should be established in the ports of
this country, and he believed those officers might be
made greatly instrumental in protecting the seamen, and
also in disciplining the crew when they embarked on board
of ship. He proposed that seamen were to be heard at
those offices, and that all ships' agreements should be
signed in the presence of the shipping officer, and attested
and explained by him. With regard to the dietary, i❑
all well-conducted ships a scale was agreed upon
before going to sea; and he believed a scale of
dietary properly framed would be a very useful
thing on board of those ships. He would also add
that a form of log-book, properly drawn up, would
be supplied to every ship, and that offences against
the regulations would be properly entered in that
log-book. He believed that by this means of fines some
of the most frequent causes of discontent would be taken
away from the merchant seamen, and that discipline
would be better enforced. But he would add that
he was so much impressed with the neces-
sity of strengthening the discipline of the
merchant service that he proposed to give to captains
having first class certificates, and commanding vessels
of a certain amount of tonnage, a power which ho
believed was necessary fur the welfare of the navy, and
though it might be a strong power, it was one which he
thought ought to be given. He proposed that for speci-
fied offences they should possess the power of imprison-
ment on board ship. With respect to this subject the
log-book would be a material check. He believed it was
for the interest of the mercantile marine that the
hands of merchant captains should be strengthened with
regard to punishment. A far more stringent discipline
was in practice in American vessels. Corporal punish-
ment was there in the power of the captain, and
he was supported by the American Government
in inflicting it. It was to be remembered that the cir-
cumstances of trade had very much altered. During
the war merchant ships were almost always near navy
vessels, but the case was very different now.—(Hear.) He
proposed when the ship returned to pert that her crew
should be paid off before the shipping officer, and not on
board, as they had hitherto been. He proposed also that
that officer should hear what the crew had to say with
regard to disputes that had taken place, and that in any
disputes under 40s. he should have a summary
power of adjudication, and even above that amount if
all the party agreed that he should do so; but if they
did not, then another course should be pursued. lie
believed that by these means a great deal of
dissatisfaction would be obviated, that justice would be
done, and pettifogging and low lawyers would be pre-
vented from practising on the unwary.—(Hear, hear.)
With regard to the subject of the sanitary condition of
ships, he proposed that a space of not less than
eight superficial feet should be appropriated
to the seamen on that part of the ship ap-
propriated to the men. There was another mat-
ter on which he believed the new vocation of the Board
of Trade might be exercised with advantage. He re-
ferred to the question of the registry of seamen.
The system of tickets had been found to be
most grievous to the sailor, and ineffective to the pre-
vention of fraud.—(Hear, hear.) He understood that
in Wapping they might buy as many tickets as they
pleased.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The only
point on which the ticket system had had any
operation was with regard to apprentices, and with
regard to them there was no necessity whatever for
keeping up the system of registration. He proposed,
therefore, in the Bill he was about to introduce to
give to the Board of Trade the_ power of putting an end
to the registration department, and transferring it to the
Board of Trade, by that means the system of registration
would be done away with. He proposed that some fee
should be taken by the ship's officers, and by that means
and the fines a sum would be raised which would,
as he calculated, amount to nearly 40,0001. a year; he
thought, after the payment of the ship's officers,
there would be a surplus of nearly 30,0001. a
year, out of which he thought many useful
purposes might be effected. He had no matured
scheme with regard to that surplus, but he could not but
think that out of that fund good service pensions might
be' given to_ masters and mates in the merchant ser-
vice with good effect. He thought that anything
that raised the master and mates would tend to good.
He should be glad if the system ho proposed should
oblige shipowners to give to their servants higher wages.
Great good might be accomplished by a fund of such a
nature ; for instance, in addition to the advantages
he had mentioned, it would enable the captains
of merchant vessels to wear badges emblematic
of their good service, and which would en-
dow them with some authority in foreig❑
ports, thus raising them in their own estimation, which
could not fail to be attended with the best results. The
fund derived from the fines of seamen should be applied
to the benefit of seamen themselves in general, and this

might be done in connexion with— the Merchant
Seamen's Fund, or in some other way. In the Bill
there were several minor matters with which he
itw oeuol
nd
ani
no
et d trouble
vi s ti
oh
ne
withHo u s
respecte, except
t to o
advance mention
vauc
e
notes.
lie believed no more important subject could come under
the attention of the House and the country than the one
he had now laid before it, and he was most
anxious that it should receive the dispassionate
consideration of both. He was sensible that
the laws which referred to this immense body
were susceptible of great improvement, but he thought,
with regard to the measure he had introduced,
and was desirous of passing this session, that it
would meet the wants of the mercantile marine and
tend to improve the sanitary and moral condition and
contentment of the great body of the seafaring
population of this country embarked in that marine,
which, as he had already stated to the House, were inti-
mately bound up with the welfare, security, and national
defences of this country. It only remained fur him to
thank the House for what necessarily was a lengthened
statement. The only Bill he asked the House to pass this ses •
sion was the Bill with respect to the light dues. With re-
gard to the important measures to which he had alluded
in his address, he only sought leave to lay them on the
table of the House.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman then handed in a resolution embodying the
sentiments contained in his speech.
Mr. W. E. GLADSTONE thought the House and the
country were indebted to the Right Hon. Gentleman for
the interesting view he had taken of a subject which had
no exterior attraction. He should not attempt to follow
the Right Hon. Gentleman through the many points on
which he had touched. The plans which he had pro-
posed were of great importance, and with respect to the
last it was perfectly obvious that it would require more
detailed and prolonged discussion than could be given to
it during the present session. Lie should, therefore,
confine him,elf to a few of the subj.•cts. %With regard to
the question of the light dues he was exceedingly glad he
had succeeded in obtaining a considerable remission of
those duos, and he thought that the corporation of the
Trinity-house, whatever they might think of the consti-
tution of that b dy—he thought that body deserved the
thanks of the House for meeting with enlightened judg-
ment the exigencies of the times.—(Hear, hear.) He
regretted, however, that he had not laid the Bill he had
respect to the light dues, as it would have
inthtroduced upon the table simultaneously with
tfohremßetrlllywi
been a practical recogni'ion of its purpose. He trusted
the Hon. Gentleman had well considered the legality of
the course he had adopted.
Mr. LABOUCHERE—Hear, hear.
Mr. GLADSTONE thought that the diversity of
charges upon different classes of vessels in respect to the
light dues was a very difficult matter. He said when a
ship had sailed from a given point and had paid light
dues, that it should not be called upon to pay them when

it passed the same light and entered the same port
homeward hound.
Mr. LABOUCIIERE said a certain class of vessel,
when it had once passed a light, was to be exempt when
it returned, but other classes would have to pay both
ways.
Mr. GLADSTONE said, in reference to the
question of pilotage, ho regretted that, with the views
he had entertained, the question of the repeal of the
navigation-laws had prevented him making the state-
ment earlier in the session; for though he anticipated
unanimityplan, and though perfectly
fair,
ye
ceoif hisvab le that the parties interested
ti
t i n
was respect of
might demand delay before it was settled. But the
statement was incomplete, he had omitted any
particular mention of the Merchant Seamen's Fund.
It was necessary that the fund should be placed
under better government, as it perpetrated many
anomalies, and often neglected to provide ade-
quately for those who had the greatest claims upon it,
whilst it unduly favoured others. He (Mr. Gladstone)
suggested whether it would not be well to wind up the
affair altogether, compensating those who had pensions,
and arranging- with those who had inchoate claims;
and to remodel it, for it was insolvent, and its in-
solvency was increasing from year to year. If
it remained as it was, in a few years it would be
absolutely necessary to legislate with respect to it.
The Right lion. Gentleman had proposed to make an
order for compulsory examinations, and he was not dis-
posed to conceive that such examinations were unneces-
sary. But there was one subject to which he must
refer, and that was the regulation contained in the Bill
by which the certificates granted to masters and mates
were to be withdrawn. Now, he did nut think that
there was anything in the Bill unjust but this, and he
did conceive that it was unjust, nut to say anything of
the icnpolicy of giving to a subordinate portion of an
executive department that power, which was of so large a
character that it was only exceeded in the consequences
which were likely to ensue from it by the penalties ina-
rho stehde uponm
itehael oeffe eunr ct
se.s , oßf
yw
thhi
ec hr
ecgougl
an
ti
eetin c
teo was
which take h ne
had alluded the certificates of masters and mates of ves-
sels might be withdrawn by the magistrates of this
jurisdiction, who would at any time be liable to actions
for their proceedings, and the regulations would prove
harsh in the extreme to the British seaman. These
certificates ought to be withdrawn for any case of
desertion. He was quite ready to bear his share in
commendation of the British seaman, and no one could
be more anxious that those merits should be duly recog-
nised and rewarded.—(Hear, hear.) None could think
more highly or his qualities and capability for his work.
Those qualities and that capability had long been proved;
but yet if there were any deficiencies which it lay in
their power to remove in order to render that capability
the greater, it wee unquestionably their duty to remove
them—(Hear, hear)—and in doing so it was their
duty altogether to cli,regard the clamour that might be
reined respecting the rights of the British seaman. He
did not wish to say more, but there was one other remark
which he felt compelled to make. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man, in his speech on the Bill for the repeal of the na-
vigation-laws, had observed that that measure was not
intended to inflict an injury but to confer a benefit. In
this he perfectly concurred; and he did not feel that they
were in any way retracing their steps; but the question
was whether this Bill was quite adequate to all its ob-
jects, and whether a larger, more comprehensive, and
more effective measure might not have been introduced.
—(Hear.) For his own part he was free to confess that
he thought there might have been. Ho thought that
the principle which had been adopted with respect to the
masters and the mates of vessels ought also to be
adopted with respect to manning the mercantile marine.
They had emancipated the shipowner, they had emanci-
pated the shipbuilder, they had destroyed the monopoly
of both, and why not destroy also the monopoly of the
seaman.—(Hear, hear.) The principle which they had
applied to the shipbuilder and the shipowner, which had
to a certain extent been applied to the masters and mates
of vessels, was equally applicable to the seamen. He was
convinced that the system of compulsory examination
would do good, great good, but still not all the good
that might be accomplished. They might go further,
and give to the seamen who man our ships the same
facilities which the masters and shipowners enjoyed,
and allow them to seek employment wherever it might
be beneficial for their interests.—(Hear, hear.) It was
a very remarkable and significant fact that during the
last year not less than 14,000 of cur seamen had
deserted the merchant service. It was plainly
evident, then, that that service did not pos-
sess any very great or peculiar attractions,
and no unnecessary scruples need be entertained
respecting the introduction of rules by which its regula-
tion might be improved.—(hear, hear.) They had
adopted the principle of building their ships and carry-
ing their goods in the best manner and at the lowest cost.
Why should they not carry out this principle to the
manning of those ships, and let the shipowner procure
his crews and make his arrangements with any set of
men with whom he might choose to engage.—(Hear.)
That principle f could not, might not be adopted
this session, but he must say that the next should not,
ought not to pass without some Bill grounded upon it
being carried through Parliament. He did not wish in any
way to depreciate the present Bill of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, or in any way to disparage his motives or
his endeavours to improve the condition of our mercan-
tile marine, but he could not help saying that the Bill
would have been better if the principle to which he al-
luded had been embodied in its provisions.
Sir G. CLERK thought the Bill which the Right
Hon. Gentleman proposed to introduce was one
whch, from the reduction of the light dues
that it would effect, was likely to be of
great immediate benefit to the mercantile community.
The Right Hon. Gentleman had asked for leave to intro-
duce a Bill, which he had stated he wished to pass this
session. As Member for Dover, he must protest against
a measure which so nearly affected the interests of his
constituents being taken at so late a period of the session.
The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that the measure

of LordSyd-nham had been defeated by local interests.
He only mentioned this to prove that local interests did
exist. He thought he had a right to complain of the
late period of the session. It would have been just
as easy to bring on the measure on the 12th
of February as on the 12th of July. The alterations
too which were proposed were very objectionable, and
injurious too to the pilots; and from what ho had seen
there was no such great excess of remuneration paid to
them that it was necessary: those at the Cinque Ports had
about 1101. per annum, and the others about 1201. Ile must
ask too with regard to the examination of masters and
mates, did the Right Hon. Gentleman imagine that the
American Minister, or the American captains, would
submit to this. He thought that not only the Ameri-
cans but also all the foreign Ministers would complain.
Till a full opportunity had been afforded the country for
considering the Bill, he hoped it would not be persevered
in; but, at all events, if it were, it would meet with his
most decided opposition.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. T. M. GIBSON observed that a pilot question
never could be brought before Parliament without it
always being thought necessary to introduce a clause
to this effect : " Provided always that nothing in this
Bill contained shall effect the rights and privileges of the
Cinque-ports." There was always a reservation of that
sort conveyed in an intimation that they might do what
they liked without interfering with the Cinque Ports.
Now it so happened that the Cinque Ports were the great
grievances, they formed the subject of all the complaints
and if they left them out of the Bill, it would be like the
play of Hamlet with the part of Hamlet left out.— (Hear,
and a laugh.) The speech which they had just heard
was not the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the late
Vice-President of the Board of Trade, but the speech of
the Hon. Member for Dover, and certainly the speech
induced him to think of his Right Hon. Friend's scheme,
for certainly he did not collect from his Right Hon.
Friend's observation that he intended to grapple with
the Cinque Ports in a manner that would become him
as a Minister of the Crown. From the speech
of the Honourable Member fur Dover—(A laugh)—
it appeared otherwise. Now this was not a question
affecting the rights of a large body of individuals; and
though there might have been a time when the ne-
cessities of the country required that large and ex-
clusive privileges should be conferred on the Cinque
Ports, that time had long since passed away,
and instead of those privileges being a public convenience
they were a public nuisance; he therefore called upon
the Right Honourabie Baronet the President of the
Board of Trade to deal with these Cinque Ports with a
bold hand. He did not believo that the dis-
tinguished person who was at the head of
them would throw any obstacle in the way
of improvement, if proper representations were made to
them.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the pilot system
itself, it worked in this way: when ships do not want a
pilot he is forced upon them, and when they do want a
pilot they cannot get one, and for this simple reason,
that they secured to the pilot a certainty of employ-
ment and income in fine weather, which induced him to
take no trouble, and go to sea in bad weather. If they
secured an income to him in fine weather, it was not
likely that he would run the risk and danger, and incur
the wear and tear by going to sea in rough weather,
and the consequence was, that very often at the South
Foreland, vessels which were compelled to submit to the
charge of a pilot in fine weather, often ran the risk of be-
ing lost through the neglect of the pilot to go to sea in
rough weather. With regard to the Trinity Corporation,
he was one of those who had never joined in a tilt
against them, because the evil of the light dues had
been occasioned by the acts of the Crown and the Legis-
lature.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CARDWELL said, if he understood the state-
ment of the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite,
he had brought three questions before them upon
which he proposed to take the opinion of the House.
The first of these was to give an important relief to the
mercantile marine, and as that measure was not to
be disposed of in the present session, he should say
nothing against it then. With regard to the second
question of pilotage, the Right Honourable Gentleman
proposed to bring in a Bill which he is anxious
to pass in the present session of Parliament. It
was merely of a permissive nature, to enable those
parties who had the control of the pilotage to makecertain remissions in regard to taking pilots where it
would be expedient; end, at the first view, it certainly
did appear a reasonable proposal, which he was not
then prepared to object to.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.")
At the same time, however, he thought the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Manchester would feel
with him, that it was but reasonable that those parties
whom it would affect should have time to consider its
provisions, and he should, therefore, defer any observa-
tions upon the subject till the second reading, when he
would have had an opportunity of communicating with
the parties interested in the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) With
regard to the third and by far the most important sub-
ject, the Right Hon. Gentleman had proposed a course
which must be eminently satisfactory to the House. He
proposed to lay before them in detail a comprehensive
scheme with regard to the mercantile marine,
and having done so he proposed to give the country a
NU opportunity of considering the measure before any