The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-06 00:00:00

POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.

On the motion for considering the Bill as amended,
Mr. NAPIER moved the insertion of the following
clause:—" And be it enacted, that when any rate for the
relief of the poor shall be made after the passing of this
Act, it shall not be lawful to commence any proceeding
for the recovery of any arrear thereof against any per-
son not primarily liable to pay the same, unless within
the period of two years next after the making and pub-
lishing of the said rate."
Sir G. GREY said Government had no objection to its
introduction.

It was accordingly passed through its various stages,
and ordered to be added to the Bill.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD moved the insertion
u of the follow-
ing clause:—" Whereas an Act. waspatssedinthn Act
e7tcht
year of her present Majesty's rezent' in
for the more effec
tiied_ ,A
for the further amendment of
a an
il h
tual Relief of the destitute Poor
ltPoohriny of Ireland,'
provision was made or the immediateinlvhieh Actlessors
f
for the whole ratesin place of the occupiers in certain
cases of the value of rateable property; be it enacted,
that so much of the said recited Act as provides, that
whenever the net annual value of the whole of the rate-
able hereditaments in eny union occupied by any person
or persons shall not exceed four pounds, the rate in re-
spect of such property shall be made on the immediate
lessor, be repealed, except as to anything heretofore
done or now pending under thia Act." No man who
was a pauper ought to contribute to the rate. A poor-
law should be considered in the light of a friendly so-
ciety, to which everybody who could must contribute;
and the House having determined to continue
the quarter•acre clause, it was only just and
fair to couple it with the provision he now
proposed. No tenement ought to be expr, asly
exempted from the payment of the rates, but they should
rather leave it to the board of guardians to decide
upon the necessity of each application for individual
exemption.
Sir L. O'BRIEN seconded the clause.
Mr. W. FAGAN opposed the clause on the ground
that it would lead to much mischief.
Sir J. YOUNG also opposed the clause.
Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH thought it highly
desirable that all classes of landholders should have an
interest in the economical working of the poor-law, or
else they might have persons claiming relief who were in
a state of comparative prosperity. Now, the only
lia bl
way e
to give them that rate was to make them
to contribute to the rates, and,
der those circumstances, he should support the clauseun-
.
Mr. J. HA MILTON suggested that it would be better
to reduce the amount of holding to which the clause
should apply.
Mr. P. SCROPE observed that if they threw the rate
on the landlord it induced him to evict; while, if it were
imposed on the small holder it could not be collected.
In dealing, therefore, with the clause they ought to act
with more caution.
Sir G. GREY said a large proportion of the rates
new collected were contributed by the landlord, and in
Pasting
a clause like this they ought to be careful that
they did not sacrifice that amount of rate.—(Hear,
"ear.) He was not prepared to say the Govern-
ment would altogether object to any modification
of this clause, but they certainly could not consent to go
the length proposed by the Hon. Member for Rochdale.
Sir 1). NORREYS calculated that 9,000 lessors at
present paid rates, and it would be a serious thing it
they passed a clause which should get rid of that amount
of liability. It was another thing whether they should
give the boards of guardians some discretion in cases
demanding exemption, but he certainly could not support
this clause.
Mr. SADLEIR would oppose the clause if be could
bring himself to think with the Right Honourable
Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department that
lessors of these small holdi
He, however, knew that the the rates
want of some efficacious mea means doifridg simplyrsneoctopvaeidri ng thevi e rvra the
and as the existing law seemed to encourage wholesale.
evictions, he could not do otherwise than give his
support to a motion f,,r its partial repeal.
Colonel THOAP SON said it appeared to him that
the evil on one side was more immediate than on the
other, and he should oppose the proposal. The diffi
culty of repealing the clause would be far greater than
that of preserving it.
Mr. AIONSELL gave it as his opinion that, if they
passed the clause, it would have the effect of utterly ex-
tinguishing the poor-law in the western unions of Ire
land.

After a few words from Mr. HARRIS,
Mr. SCULLY said he certainly would support the
motion, unless it were accompanied by some plan for
compromising the payment of the rates between the
landlord and ten,nt.
Mr. O'FLABERTY said that he should vote fcr thi,
clause, for the very some reason that induced the Hon.
Gentleman who had just spoken to oppose it.
Colonel DUNNE had been surprised to hear the
Honourable Member for Limerick say that h© pre.
ferred the collecting of the rates
to the
inte-
rest of the poor. This clause had been debated upon in
Committee, and, as far as ho could see, that Committee
had been of little use, as very few of the recommenda-
tions had been attended to here. The valuation of Ire-
land was 13,000,0001., and, according to calculations
which had been made, 10,000,000/. of this were
not paid; The Hon. Gentleman then adverted to a letter
in yesterday's Times which had confirmed all the state-
ments made by him in that llouse. There was also
another letter, he meant the manifesto published by the
Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, and which he could not de-
precate in too strong terms.
Sir LUCIUS O'BRIEN proposed that all tenements
valued under 11, and not containing more than a quarter
of an acr., should be exempt f;om poor-rate.
Lord J. RUSSELL said this was a question of
great d.ffieulty. Ile thought that two great evils
:would arise from the repeal of the clause which exist( d
in the Act of Parliament, one of which would be that a
much loss sum would be collected for the relief of the
Poor, and another that there would be a greater risk of
collision in collecting the rates.
After a few words from Mr. J. O'CONNELL,
Mr. S. CRAWFORD replied.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, when
there appeared--
For the clause •••
Against it ... "'
Majority
(LEFT SITTING.)

... 25
... 55
- 30

.ER MAJESTY'S TIIEATRE.—IIis Royal High
ness the Prince Leopold of Naples (Count of Syracuse),
attended by the Chevalier Colonna, honoured the per-
formance at her Majesty's Theatre yesterday evening
with his presence. Her Majesty's box was occupied by
the Earl and Countess of Desart, the Earl Caw
tor,
Lord and
they Lad Lascelles, Mrs. Campbell, andpar party.
Amongst visitors were—his Grace the Duke
Wellington, the Duke and Duchess of Cleveland end
Lady Augusta Paulet, his Excellency the Russian 0-
Minister, the Princess Scherbuttoff, Madame de Chrap _
witky the Marquis of Clanricarde, the Marquis of
Ileadfort, the Marquis and Marchioness of Salisbury,
the Marquis and Marchioness of Sligo and the Ladies
the
Marquis
the Marquis of Huntley, the Marquis of Done-
gal, his Excellency the Swedish Minister, his Excel-
lency the Danish Minister, the Countess Reventlow and
the Countesses Hilda and Malvina de Reventlow, his
Excellency the Austrian Minister and the Countess
Colloredo, his Excellency the Neapolitan Ambassador,
lkinscExcellency the Minister of Costa Rica, his PrinceExcel-
-I,y the Minister from the Argentine Republic, the
rok and Mdlle. de Zafavoileska, the Earl of Pem-
b e, the Earl of Bective, the Earl B the Earl of
Munster, the Earl of L,onsdale General rescoff, the Viscount Exmouth, the tS
ei litz the
rte'Prince d'Ab-
Viscount Clifden, the Viscount Ca Baronessterbur he Visco' unt
Emlyn, the Viscount Cantilueeinthe Viscount Anson,
the Viscount Enfield, the Viscount S merton the
Viscount Ranelagh, Lord Templeton, Lord°Ward, 'Lord
Sandys, Lord W. Lennox, Lord G. Paget, Lord George
Gordon bennox, Lord Saltoun Mr. and Lady Jane
Repton, Lady Flower, Lady Fremantle, Lady Lesford,
Lady Fitzroy Somerset and Miss Fitzroy Somerset,
Count do Berke, Lieut.-General Sir Alexander Wood-
ford, Bart., Lady and the Misses Woodford,
is
Ric
Sir Andrew Barnard, Bart., Sir Cornwallis Ricketts,
Bart., Sir Thos. Barrett Lennard, Bart., and Lady
Barrett Lennard, Sir Ralph Howard, Bart., M.P., Lady
Howard and Miss Howard, Sir Philip Arland, Bart, Sir
H. Webb, Bart., Sir H. Willoughby, Bart., Sir Seymour
Sadler, Lady Seymour and Miss Seymour, Baron de
Cazes, Sir Charles Mansfield Clarke, Bart
T.
the Cheva-
lier Drouett, Lady Thynne, the lion. T. Baring, the
Hon. Fitzroy Stanhope, Sir F. Gage, Lady Moleswortb,
the Baron Guerlach ,e M. C. de Koudriaffsky, Mr. J.
Sadleir, M.P., Mr. W. Rose, Mr. Norman Macdonald,
Ilt Conway Seymour, Mr. Bnjamin Hawes, M.P., and
hire. Hawes, Mr. C. J. Palmer, Mr. and Mrs. Hubert de
Burgh, Mr. H. Broadley M.P , Lieutenant-Colonel Ellis,
kr. W. Delafield
Xt., Mr. and 111:s. Tudor, Major But k'ey,
li
'44/11rY Singlet9U and Dues Singleton._,