The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-01 00:00:00

LATE AFFRAY AT NEWTOWNBARRY.

Mr. LAMBERT, in rising pursuant to notice, for the
purpose of moving for copies of such information as his
Majesty's Government triii,ht have received relative to the
late affray at Newtownharry, in the county of Wexford,
deeply regretted the necessity for such a motion. No-
thing could be further from his desire thsn to excite any
feeling against the conduct of his Majesty's Government
on this occasion. On the contrary, he believed they were
sincerely anxious to do what they considered to he right.
It was said, however, that it was the disposition of Go-
vernment to call out the yeomanry in Ireland, in conse-
quence of what had taken place in that country. Now
he would beg to suggest to them, to put down the clamour
for a repeal of the Union by measures of strict justice, ra-
ther than by resorting to an armed force. He was not an
advocate for the repeal of the Union; but he knew Ire-
land, and he knetv that unless some measures of justice
and conciliation were adopted, the question of the repeal of
the Union would assume avt ry serious shape. A mighty
spirit was abroad. Revolution was knocking at the door.
To revolution, however, he was strongly opposed ; and he
trusted, therefore, that such a course would be pursued as
would prevent its admission. The Hon. Gentleman con-
cluded by making his motion.
Mr. WALKER seconded the motion.

Mr. STANLEY, after complirnenting the Hon. Mover
and the Elon. Seconder on the very creditable temper with
which they had introduced the subject, assured them that
neither they nor any Hon. Member connected with Ireland
could be more anxious than he and his Majesty's Govern-
ment were to give the means of throwing every possible
light on the unhappy occurrence to which the motion re-
ferred. They had no wish whatever to screen the guilty;
their only desire was to remove any imputation from those
who might be innocent. They felt it to be of great im-
portance that the people of Ireland should know that no
partiality, no religious or political considerations, would
be allowed to interfere with the administration of justice.
They felt it to be a lamentable fact, that hitherto there had
been too strong an impression on the minds of the people
of Ireland that the law was not intended for their protec-
tion : and that they regarded it rather as a heavy yoke im-
posed upon them, than as a friendly and beneficial succour.
He could assure the Hon. Mover and the Hen. Seconder,
that it was the earnest endeavour of his Majesty's Govern-
ment so to conduct themselves as to prove to the Irish
people their disposition to do justice to them ; and to satisfy
their own consciences; and the God to whom they were
responsible for their actions. He could assure them,
that if he 'thought that the ends of justice would be
hater obtained, or that the truth would be more effec-
tually elucidated, by the production of the documents in
question, not only would he consent to the motion, but he
should have felt it his duty to anticipate the Hon. Member
for Wexford by making the motion hims.lf. But, under
the existing circumstances, and while the investigation of
the case was still pending—(Hear, hear)—while wit-
nesses were in the course of examination, and while the
most contradictory statements had been made, the respec-
tive merits of which only a Court of Justice could ascer-
tain, he felt that it would not be consistent with his duty
to the unfortunate persons who might be criminated, on
whose hands there was blood, and who would most likely
have to answer for their conduct before a legal tribunal,
to enter into any premature discussion of the facts, or to
lay before the House the evidence which his Majesty's
Government had obtained as the guide of their own con-
duct. The case would shortly come before the Judges at
the Assizes. The feeling which existed, the origin of the
transaction, the degree of blame attached to this party or
to that, the moderation or otherwise of the Magistrates,
the police, and the populace, would there be fully investi-
gated. He really could not think it advantageous to pre-
judge the decision of a Court of Justice by a debate in
which angry political and party feelings must necessarily
be mixed up; and which must, therefore, impede what he
and every Hon. Member must be most anxious to promote.
He hoped, therefore, that the Hon. Member for Wex-
ford would not compel him to oppose his motion ; but
that he would voluntarily withdraw it. He hoped that
what he was going to say would prove that there was no
desire on the part of his Majesty's Government for con-
cealment of the facts. In the course of the legal proceed-
ings it might appear, that although there was no absolute
criminality, yet that some of the individuals acting under
the controul of Government, whether Magistrates, yeo-
manry, or police, had been guilty of great indiscretion.
Should such turn out to be the case, and should his Ma-
jeaty'e Government take any step in consequence, be would
then feel it to be his duty to lay the whole evidence of the
affair on the table of the. House; for it could then beso sub-
mitted without prejudice to the parties implicated. After
this explanation he trusted that the Hon. Member for
Wexford would withdraw his motion : and he hoped other
H in. Members would exercise what he considered would
be a sound discretion in abstainiug from discussing a sub-
ject which was so soon to come into a Court of Justice.
Mr. O'CONNELL wished to state one fact. Fifteen
human beings—men, women, and children—bad been
killed, and twenty-five wounded. But no single being
was in custody. Those persons. whoever they were, who
had been guilty of this multitudinous homicide, were all
at large, in perfect security, able to abscond in a moment
if they chose. If that were so, where was the delicacy of
talking of an interference with a Court of Justice ? The
county of Wexford was at present in a most frightful state
of agitation. In 1798 that county was unimplicated in
the treasonable union of the United Irish. Yet that
county, then one of the most tranquil in Ireland; the ma-
jority of the inhabitants of which were descendants of the
Normans, subsequently burst out into a simultaneous and
open rebellion, and fought five battles with the King's
troops, in three of which they*were victorious. It was
the most formidable county in Ireland in which such a
circumstance as that which had lately happened could
have occurred. He believed that the Hon. Mover and
Seconder and himself were the only persons in the House
who knew the state of the county of Wexford—who
knew that the people were waiting, not fair law, but for
vengeance, and who knew that if blood once began to
flow, it was impossible to say when it would be staunched.
Mr. STANLEY repeated that while the judicial in-
!miry was going on, discretion dictated that no legislative
interference should take place. He thought that some ex-
pression had been made use of which would lead the
House to believe that the yeomanry bad been called out in
Ireland upon permanent duty. That was a mistake, and
he took the earliest opportunity of setting Hon. Gentle•
men right upon that subject. Some Hon. Gentlemen
batad
all censured the Government for calling out the yeomanry
the tact was that the yeomany were called
out, not by the Government, but by the Magistratet ac-
cording to what the Magistrates, 0,1
best exercise of sound discretion. 'lO4l deemed the
Whether it had been so
or not, would, of course, form part of the question to be
considered in the approaching inv.. •
tigation
Mr. O'CONNELL explained. •

Mr. BLAKENEY said that when allusions
made to the unhappy transactions in the cont had
been
ford, be had observed an lion. Member near him of
- Wet"
ing in a smile unbecoming a man.—(Shouts of ro, no
The SPEAKER observed, that when an Hen. Member
rose to speak under the excitement of great warmth of
feeling, it was likely he might make use of some hasty ex
pressions ; but he ought not to impute motives to others ;
and, above all, he should be careful not to impute motives
which it was impossible to suppose could exist, He was

sure the Hon. Member would regret the expression he had
so hastily employed.
Mr. BLAKENEY hoped the House would make due
allowance for his warmth of feeling. He had.been in the
neighbourhood at the time of the unhappy affair, and had
witnessed nearly the whole of the proceedings. The con-
duct of the Magistrates had been most improper. They
had arrested some men against whom there was no proof
whatever, and they had allowed others to escape without
being arrested, against whom plenty of evidence could
be produced. He had had conversations with many of
the Magistrates. One of them told him that the affair
was, one of a most serious nature. He had urged
that warrants should be issued—he was promised that
they should be—hut no warrants had been issued.
The people were willing that the matter shoujsl go be-
fore the Government, for then they were satisfied they
should get justice; but all the offenders were allowed
to escape without being ' apprehended.—(Hear.) The
Magistrates, toe, had ordered the informations to be given
to the felons as well as to the people who were to pro-
secute them. The real offenders were not arrested. He
complained of that at the time ; he had offered to arrest
them himself, if he was allowed the legal authority to do
so, but he was refused. The whole business was owing to
the misconduct of the yeomanry--and he must say, a
snore ragamuffin set of fellows he never saw. The magis-
trate who had promised him to see that the offenders were
arrested afterwards thought fit to pass him without notice.
As for the yeomanry, he would as soon have a set of
butchers' boys to preserve the peace as these yeomen. He
should not trespass further, as he should have another
opportunity in another place to speak upon this subject,
when he hoped he should be able to state it snore properly
than he had done now.--( Hear, hear.) The yeomanry
were not disciplined as they ought to be—they were not
men to whom arms ought to be confided.—(Hear.)
Sir JOHN M. DOYLE said the yeomanry of England
were one thing, the yeomanry of Ireland were another.—
had great respect for the one, he was sorry to say he
had no respect for the other. He knew the yeomanry of
his country too well to respect them much ; and of this
he was convinced, that unless that force was laid aside,
that unhappy country would never have peace.—(Hear,
hear, hear.)
An Hox. GENTLEMAN, who described himself as the
colleague of the Member for Wexfotd, could not but con-
gratulate the House and the country that this motion had
been brought forward, especially after the satisfactory ex-
planation given by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He could
bear testimony to the great excitement which this matter
had created in Wexford ; a county which, up to the time
of this unhappy transaction, had been one of the most
peaceable in Ireland.
Mr. HUNT did not feel satisfied with the explanation
of the Right Hon, Gentleman, although the last Hon.
Member did. He had listened to the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman with astonishment, and could not conceive why he
should refuse the information now asked. He (Mr. H.)
had been attacked, and he wished to reply to some of
these attacks. One was made by the Hon. Member for
Kerry, who was the last man that should have attacked
him, as that Hon. Member shielded himself by a vow in
Heaven.—(ob, oh, oh !)
The SPEAKER observed, that reference tai a by-
gone debate was out of order; and as the Hon. Member
for Preston had let pass the opportunity of noticing the
supposed attack at the time it was made, it would be for
him to consider how far it was likely lie should conciliate
the House or do himself any service by referring to the
subject now, even if such reference was in order, which it
was not.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HUNT was about to renew his observations in the
same manner, when he was again met with loud cries of
" Oh !" and
Lord ALTHORP rose to order, and repeated that the
Speaker had already observed, that such references to
former debates were contrary to order.-- (Hear.)
Mr. HUNT then said that he would not let another op.
portunity pass for rebutting an attack at the time it was
made.—(He then sat down.)
Mr. HUAIE suggested that the motion should be with-
drawn till the information on the subject had been ob-
tained. He had listened with horror to the statement that
had been made, especially with regard to the Magistrates,
who, he regretted to find, were still on the Bench, and act-
ing in their magisterial capacity.

Air. STANLEY said, that 'as soon as he had beard of

the statement now made by the Hon. Member for Carlow,
he had written to request the same information in writing,
and to ask that sworn informations should be given against
the Magistrates who were complained of. With respect
to the Magistrates in general, he would now only observe,
that there was a Bill passing through the House to con-
tinue for six months the powers of the Government to ex-
amine into the Commissior.s of Magistrates, in order to
effect a revision of them.—(Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL, after what the Right Hon. Secre-
tary had this moment stated, implored the Hon. Member
opposite to withdraw the motion.

Mr. LAMBERT, as the object he had in view was
likely to be answered in another way, should have no ob-
jection to withdraw his motion.
The motion was withdrawn.
DISTILLATION FROM MOLASSES.

Mr. P. THOMSON said, that the distress which HOW
prevailed in the West Indies was in itself a sufficient reaon
for him to ask the House to grant the means of an in-
quiry into the mode to be adopted for its relief. The
subject was involved in so many intricacies, that the Go-
vernment thought the best mode of inquiry would be by
the appointment of a Committee. He moved that a Select
Committee be appointed to inquire into the expediency
of admitting the use of molasses in the breweries and dis-
tilleries of the United Kingdom.

Mr. GILLON said he did not mean to oppose the ap-
pointment of a Committee, as he was a friend to inquiry;
hut he should conceive it his duty, as representing a
county deeply interested in the distilleries, to watch with
the utmost jealousy any measure tending to substitute
colonial produce fee that of our native industry. Some-
thing was also due to the interests of the distiller., who
had embarked large capitals in their trade, and who were
found to be a most respectable and useful body of men.
The effect of introducing molasses instead of grain for dis-
tillation, would be to throw a number of the poorer soils
out of cultivation, and to diminish the employment of the
agricultural labourer, which they could ill afford in a time
of distress like the present.
Sir G. CLERK complained that a question of so much
importance was brought on at so late an hour (half-past
twelve) ; and that instead of moving for the appointment
of a Committee, Ministers ought to have been provided
with a distinct scheme for the admission of molasses. tie
apprehended that the plan, whatever it might be, would
afford no relief the West Indies, while it would operate
most injuriously on the landed interest.
Mr. K. DOUGLAS thought Ministers fully justified in
the course they were about to pursue.
Mr. F. LEWIS said that an inquiry of so vague a nature,
which had for object merely the fishing for information,
upon which Ministers seemed unprovided with any propo-
sition, would tend to disturb the greatest interests—those
of agriculture and the West Indies—without accomplish-
ing any corresponding advantage, and inflicting, perhaps,
the deepest injury. He called upon the Noble Lord, (Al-
thorp) to state fairly the views and purposes of his col-
'eagues, and the plan, if any, which they were about to
submit to the Committee. The real question was no less
thin this—whether sugar should be substituted for grain
in the distilleries of the three kingdoms ?
Lord ALTHORP contended that the proposition was
xtremely innocent, and the question merely whet,her a
Committee should be appointed to inquire whether any
arrangement could be adopted for the distillation of mo-
lasers when grain was at a certain price? Ministers were
of opinion that some plan of the kind might be discovered
which might possibly benefit the West Indies; without doing
the slightest injury to agriculture. This was exactly a case
in which inquiry by a Committee could be so beneficial,
tnd the investigation could be conducted without exciting
alarm. The present moment was peculiarly favourable for
undertaking it, as the making trade could not be affected,
the season for malting being past.
After a few words from Mr. Warburton, Mr. Curteis,
Mr. Ruthven, Mr. R. Gordon, Sir R. Harty, and Mr.
Benett, the motion was agreed to, and the Committee ap-
pointed.