The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-05 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock to-
day.

HOGHTON'S DIVORCE BILL.
Sir JOHN YARDE BULLER moved the consider-
ation of the petition of John Swarbreck Gregory (pre-
sented 4th July), relative to the service of a copy of
the Bill and order for the Committee, in the case of
Hoghton's Divorce Bill.
Mr. Gregory, the petitioner, was called to the bar, and
examined by Sir John Yarde Buller,
in support of the

allegations Contained in the petition.
On the motion of Sir J. Y. BULLER, it was agreed
that personal service of certain documents in the case
upon Mrs. Hoghton, now resident in Calcutta, should be
dispensed with, and that service on her procter be sub-
stituted.—Agreed to.
BEER -HOn SES.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented a petition from Ham-
mersmith complaining of the spread of beer-houses.

THIRD READING.
The General Land Drainage and Improvement (In-
corporating and Conferring of Powers) Bill was read a
third time and passed.
POOR-LAW (IRELAND) BILL.
On the order of the day being read for the House
again going into Committee on this Bill,
Mr. LAWLESS moved the suspension of the 10th
clause of the Act 10 Viet., c. 31, commonly called the
Quarter-acre Clause, for a limited period. Ho had
originally voted for the quarter-acre clause, believing
that its operation was only intended to be temporary.
The small farmers of Ireland were to be pitied more
than any other class of the community; and the opera-
tion of this clause was felt nsost seriously by them, be-

cause it deprived the cottiers of the-rsian3 of tup-

port, and threw them upon the rates for a subsistence.
The Hon. Member read long extracts from Parlia-
mentary reports, and argued from them that the distress
which they depicted arose from the quarter-acre clause.
His experience of 'the working of the present law, for
which he bad voted, led him to regret that he had voted
for the quarter-acre clause. He concluded by moving a
clause repealing the quarter-acre clause.
Sir WM. SOMERVILLE opposed the clause.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE supported the motion of the
Hon. Member for Clonmel, considering that the quarter-
acre clause had led to wholesale extermination in
Ireland.
Mr. FAGAN also supported the clause.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL regretted that Government had
not proposed to abrogate the quarter-acre clause
altogether, instead of for a limited period.
This system of legislation was ruining the souls as well
as the bodies of the Irish poor. The heavy curse of the
poor man was upon the deviser and framer of this
clause. _

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said the operation
of this clause was fatal to the prosperity of Ireland. He
did not wish to say that there was no need
of any limitation in administering relief to
the Irish poor, but he begged the House to
remember that they were not now legislating for a common
case. The effect of the extension of this clause would
be to leave a discretion in the hands of the board of
guardians whether they would give relief or not.:
Mr. P. SCROPE said the result of this clause had
been to desolate many parts of Ireland:; a large por-
tion of population had withered away under the
operation of it. Along with their land par-
ties had to give up their homes as well, before they
obtained relief ; if not they must die of starvation. and
many preferred this fate. He hoped that the House
would consent to suspend the clause.
Mr. MONSELL was bound to acknowledge that the
account given by the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat
down was too true. He, however, thought that Ho-
nourable Gentlemen who had spoken had all
of them: neglected to state the evil which
existed on the other side of the question.
He would suggest to the Hon. Member for Clonmell
(Mr. Lawless), that he should at preient withdraw his
motion, and at some future period bring forward a
clause which should give to boards of guardians power
to suspend the quarter-acre clause in cases where it
might seem expedient so to do. He thought, too, that
the law ought to be made more clear, as different
boards of guardians interpreted the law in different ways.
Sir DENHAM NORREYS thought that this clause
operated as a great check upon poor-law relief in Ire-
land. He thought that the Hon. Member for Stroud
(Mr. P. Scrope), in his detail of the miseries of the Irish
poor, had confounded the operation of the 4/. clause and
the quarter-acre clause. Many persons had received
relief, as would be seen from the evidence given before
the Committee of the House of Lords, without giving up
their farm.
Mr. SCULLY thought it was necessary to suspend
this clause. They were now at an extraordinary crisis
in Ireland, and the question was not whether they should
supply the poor with work and wages, but whether
they should furnish a starving people with food. The
vast majority of the people of Ireland were in a state of
absolute starvation, and while the people were receiving
relief under the existing law this clause only served to
keep the people idle and the laud out of cultivation.
Sir L. O'BRIEN said there was a class of persons who
had been entirely lost sight of in this discussion, and
that was the poor rate-payers, who were entitled to as
much consideration in the House as the poor? Now,
just consider what would a poor struggling rate-payer,
paying perhaps 7s. 6d. in the pound, feel when he saw
his next door neighbour holding a still larger quantity
of land than himself in the receipt of relief under the
law. Well, then, suspend this clause, and there would be
no end to such cases.
The galleries were then cleared for a division, but
none took place. On our return to the gallery we
found
Lord JOHN RUSSELL impressing upon the Com-
mittee that the object of a poor-law should be to give as
much relief as possible, but it was impossible, if not un-
just, to say, that in no case should they refuse relief.
He, therefore, could give no pledge that the quarter-acre
clause should not be acted upon.
Mr. GRACE knew from experience that the clause
precluded many suffering and deserving persons from
obtaining relief, and gave his warm support to the motion.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it . ... 74
Majority ... ... —62
Sir JOHN WALSH moved the following clause

" And be it enacted, that from and after the passing of
this Act it may and shall be lawful for the Poor-law
Commissioners, and they are hereby required to divide
the electoral divisions of the several unions in Ireland
into such and so many rating districts as to them shall
seem fit; and when the said division of such electoral
division shall have been duly made by the said Com-
missioners, each such rating district shall constitute
a separate rating district for the relief of the poor
now resident within the same, and no pauper or destitute
person shall be entitled to relief under this Act or any
Act for administering relief to the destitute poor of Ire-
land, save and except from and on account of the rating
dlstrlct, so to be formed as aforesaid, in respect to which
his legal
so
olaim for relief arises i. and. such electoral
shall continue to dividedb
as aforesaid,
shall rating districts
ele9toral division, for all the
purposes of election of an
at the board of guardiatuardians, and of re
ec...f the union withinP
shall be situated ; provided resentatioß
which same
Comcimailw!tys, that in forming such
rating districts the
circumstances will permit, _sasioners
shall,to
aaathae far as
boun-
daries of the several prophervtlsrewgiatrhd" la
pro-Veirtyelleof
tlral division, so as to form
(or in such
each. proprietor in such electoral division
union, if they shill so think fit,) into asisc3ientfarate rating
district, if such property shall amount
d
to the annual sum of 1,0001.; and if the ratreactiev,;n" " :
any such property shall not amount to the said sum,t it
of
shall be lawful for the said Commissioners to uniteeh
and so many of the adjoining properties as to themuc
shall seem fit, so as to form a separate rating district
for the purposes of this Act : and provided also, that no
rating district, to be formed under the authority of this
Act, shall exceed in rated value the amount of 3,0001.
per annum: and provided also, that nothing heroin con-
tained shall be construed to limit or prevent the said
Commissioners from forming any rating districts of any
smaller extent than 1,0001. rated value per annum, if it
shall seem expedient and necessary to them so to do."
Sir W. SOMERVILLE trusted that the Hon. Mem-
ber would not press this clause, as they were nearly at
the close of the Committee, when it would not be ad-
visable to discuss the merits of it.
Sir JOHN WALSU consented to withdraw the

clause, but thought the question of the area of taxation
was one of the most important parts of the Irish
poor-law.
Colonel DUNNE observed that thb Irish Members
would never be satisfied until the question of art a
.was
determined.
After a words from Mr. ROCHE and Mr. HERBERT the
clause was withdrawn.
Mr. POULETT SCROPE then moved the following
clause:—"And whereas the relief that can be afforded to
certain classes of the destitute poor, under the second
section of the said recited Act, is confined to food only,
and that many such persons have experienced great suf-
fering, and the destruction of health, and even of life,
from want of the means for procuring shelter, clothi: g,
or fuel wherewith to cook the raw food alio% ed to them,
be it enacted, that it shall be lawful for the guardians of
any union in which the order of the Poor-law Commis-
sioners to afford relief to such persons is in force, to
afford such other relief to them, besides food, as shall ap-
pear to them necessary for the preservation of their lives
and health."
Sir W. SOMERVILLE opposed the clause, observing
that it would open the door to very great abuses. It was
impossible fur any law to meet every case of difficulty;
and instead of distributing clothes, which would give
rise to abuses, he thought they ought to confine them-
selves to relieving the urgent necessities of the poor.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL alluded to the wretched condi-
tion of some of the poor, and said he considered that the
proposition of the Hon. Member to supply them with
clothes would be of great benefit to them, and would
protect them from much misery.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said it would be a
matter of economy in many instances if the guardians
had a discretionary power of administrating clothing and
shelter to applicants for relief, as well as food. For this
reason he would support the clause.
Mr. G. MOORE said the present system of adminis-
tering out-door relief in Ireland was wholly inadequate
to support the life of the applicants, and the consequence
was that hundreds of the people were literally dying
from starvation.

Mr. CORNE WALL LEWIS said the giving a discre-
tionary power to the guardians to administer relief in
shelter and clothing would lead to no practical results in
the poorer districts in Ireland, unless there was a
power of increasing the fund out of which the relief was
granted.
Mr. P. SCROPE said the guardians at present had
only the power of giving relief in food to the able-bodied
poor; and he thought a poor man who had been turned
out of house and home [required relief in shelter and I
clothing quite as much as food. He was therefore de-
sirous of giving the guardians the discretionary power of
administering relief to the able-bodied in clothing and
shelter as well as food. poor-law
ster would
oual-
ways
t
Lord JOHN RITSSrp
as not tfficsuaildtyo iaonduc*? the able-bodied
any
be subject to th
poor to prefer the acceptance of that relief to supporting
door relief in such a way
tiliem selves by their own labour. He admitted that it
might be in many cases most desirable that the guar-
dians should have the power of granting relief in shelter
and clothing as well as in food; at the same time he
thought such a power would be always liable to abuse,
inasmuch as the able-bodied labourer would frequently
prefer such relief to depending upon his own exertions.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no divison
took place, the Hon. Member for Stroud having agreed
to withdraw his clause.

Sir D. NORREYS proposed the following clause :
" Whereas the reduction of the period of residence which
shall create chargeability from thirty months to twelve
months, will tend to increase unjustly the rates of the
cities and towns of Ireland, inasmuch as from the demo-
lition of the houses of the poorer classes in the rural
districts, the destitute poor are compelled to seek shelter
and employment in them, be it enacted, that no destitute
poor p,r..on claiming relief shall be chargeable to the
electoral division in which any city or market town may
be situated, who shall have come to reside therein within
two years next previous to his application for relief', un-
less he shall, previous to such two years, have occupied
some certain place of residence therein for twelve months
continuously, but that in every such case the applicant
for relief shall be chargeable to that electoral
division to which he would have been chargeable pre-
vious to his coming to reside in the town electoral divi-
sion." The proposition of the Hon. Member for Cork
would not relieve the small towns. What he (Sir IX
Norreys) proposed was, that the provisions of the poor-
law should not become applicable to a pauper who had
not come to reside in towns within the last two years.
Mr. HERBERT opposed the clause.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the
Committee divided, when there appeared—

For the clause
Against it
Majority against the clause
The clause was consequently lost.
Colonel DUNNE then rose pursuant to notice to move
the following clause:—" And be it further enacted
that when any land shall have been unoccupied
and laid waste for the period of twelve months
next before the 25th day of March, 1849, the board
of guardians may excuse any new occupier of such land
from the payment of any arrears of rates left unpaid by a
former occupier of such land."
Lord JOHN RUSSELL opposed the clause, consider-
ing that if it was passed it would have the effect of
excusing the payment of all arrears whatever.
After some discussion,
Colonel DUNNE withdrew the clause.
The House then resumed.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he proposed to take the
report tomorrow at twelve o'clock, and the third reading
on Monday next.
The House, shortly after four o'clock, adjourned to
six o'clock.

... 73
... -66

The House resumed at Six o'clock.
BRITISH GUIANA.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the elected mem-
bers of the colony of British Guiana complaininf that they
ale compelled to pay a civil list to the extent of 39,0001. a
year when the circumstances of the colony could not
afford it.

... 92