The Sun.
London, England, 1809-05-10 00:00:00

should be Considered-that it was intended to take s
eempeeherisive view of thejnterests of the two coun-
tries. Tne period was not fevoierable for negociat-
ing an instrument so-extensiveas that -must haVe
been. It would not have been fair to Spain, for
either Great Britain Must have conceded.gratuitously
to"Spoin, or she must have, asked in return what
Spain had not at that time the.power to give. Still,
however, connected as the two countries were, was
it not right that there should be I recorded document
of that connection ? The relations of Great Britain
to Spain were meliorated by this document. She
was before bound to an -indefinite extent to, assist
Spain, and to a definite extent to abstein from de-
manding a remuneration.. It became absolutely
necessary, with a view to our own interest, in some
degree to define the principle of the cnnneaion be-.
tween theewo countries. When the—be. did not
'know what :to call it--.a revolution, he thanked
God, it was net—an insurreaion it certainly Was
not,_ for it was against no legitimate authority; but
on the glorious breaking Out in Spain cif the deter-
mination-to resist French oppression, a British Order
in Council ww -issued, declaring peace established
between. the two countries," wed preventing any
forther captures front the' Spaniards. He belieVed
that every man iii the cons try felt thii to be a wise,
just, and honourable act. 'But at the same time the,.
British Government had a right to say,' that this
abstinence from captures must be reciprocal. No-
thing•was more fit for them to ask, nor More WO:
nourable. for Si-min to-grant. Was this Concession
nugatory ? The fa& ions singtilar, that the only
two cases of -capture which had occurred, were
captures made by Spain from Groat -Britain. To
proceed with' the coesideration of the Ti eaty, the
articles by which. Great Britain was bound ti ace
knowledge Ferdinand VII. or any subsequent leg',
timate Sovereign.of Spain, had been idly supposed.
to bind her to carry .on the' war• for Ferdinand VII, '
or still more strongly to acknowledge Joseph Bona-
parte, should he become a successful Usurper. The
Only obje& of 04 article in qpetstien was the pcsi•
Bible case of the, extinedion of the present Royal'
Branch of Spain, in which case it might* beconae a
doubt, in consequence of the Salique Law, whether
the Neapolitan Branch, or the Princes of Brazil
shouldascend .t he throne. It was not for this coune
try to decide such a point, and it was therefore fee,
this country to provide against ,the contingency of
making the eletlion; The nest article iu the Treaty
was that by whitli Spain engaged to taker precautions
that her fleet should not fall into the hands of the
enemy, and by which Great Britain engaged to assist
her inithat object. Amidst 'all that Spain had felt;
the Spaniards had never been disposed to admit the,
British into their naval arsenals.' .The offer lied
naore than' once been made by Great Britain, but in
eenforinay to tlto principles su which the Govern=
meneaet OUt, never in ,a tone of coercion. ,It had
been 4clined.; and that refusal had been received by
Uovernmept, not. with ill humour; with great res .
gtet, but with 'a just deference to the iodgmene of
those,; from whom .it proceeded; It was held by the
Spanish Government, diet standing' es they did on
the bash of public opinion, \they might; by the ad-
mission of the British into their ports, have given
occasion eto the common enemy to say, that' the
English,: according to' their usual practice, were
availing themselves of the distressed state of Spain
to seize the Spanish Navy, eft was on this ground
frankly stated. by the Spanish Government as likely
to mislead many of , their countrymen, that they
declined an offer in which they allowed thee did
not see any thing dangerous or dishpnourable; But
a much more importantconsideration than even the
'principleson•winch 'instrument was Imitated,
was the relative situation in which the events at the
close of the last campaign left the two countries.---
He woold not enter into a critical examination of
ivery.military movement of the last campaign.----
Such a retrospect would be'very peinful. But it
was necessary, atel would be hisduty to follow the.
Noble Lerd when 'he ettiabuted a part of the eam-
peign (which he beliessed the Noble Lord consider-
ad ta have been miecondated, but which he him-
self did not think had been nriseenduCted) narto
the free will of the General 'who Commanded; hitt
to the improper interference of his Majesty's Mi-
nireere in. Spain. This , was a, question which it
won't) be difficult completely to decide, it both the
individuals who were concerned in it were Members
of that Home,. and if fortunstely both were alive,
Capable of steting the fads, to Perliament, and of
renderieg farther service to their country. it 'Was
distresaing.to come to the discussion ender the diffi-
culties which existei 'upon it. When the individual,
in whose defence it was•probabl.y iiepeeted he shook!
speak, though Alvin, was not present, and when
the other individual, for whose memory he enter.
tamed the higheet respe&, was no mere,' he would
freely acknowledge, that even if the error imputed
were an error of great magnitude; the battle of co,-.
rutnia ought to obliterate it ; but ,he imputed no such
error.: He would say, that on a fair :etamination
Of the evidence, with as
.muth 'impartiality' as he.
could assuale, and on a free comparison of his own
sentiments, with those of others, he believed in his
conscience, that the f ,of Sir jehn Moores ad;.
vance (80,,tunCh.condenined by. the Noble Lord) be
ingntributable.to.the interference of Mr. Frere, was-
not true. If he thought otherwise; he should by tip
means be disposed to shield. Mr. Frere froM the
.ie-
eponsibility of ; fiat-considering the advance iu a
military point of view, in his poor judgment he could
not hoc think it a wise measure ; but in' eVery vie*
which ennobled. military objeds he .wag sure it was a-
wise measure:; So far therefore from shielding Mr.
Fret& from the responsibility attached to this fore
ward movement, he should :rather hail it for him..
BUt. truth compelled-him to declare that' although
he did Hot. think it a blamable measure, the merit
of it was mot Mf. Frere's. Of this he was con-
vinced, that it the gallant General, whose losi 'the
country had to regret,- was present to state his own
case, the House would never have heard froM. him
one 'word of the tendency Of. the "Noble Lord's ob.;,
servations. To this' convitlion he hail not brOught
his mind on LOA groupds.' It was tounded on the
fati, that Sir J; Moore had not transmitted his -Ore
respOndcnce with. Mr. Frere tcl Government; I)id
the Noble Lord mean to attribute to Sir 3; Metal.,
1.44 having Made a moyeniPnt, by which the exist-
ence of the British 'army was endangered, he .with-
held from Government-Tiny knowledge of the too-
tires on which he had adcd This' would' be to
peter a actions charge against tint gallant Officer,
who he dared nay had never been watitiet in his
duty ; but who would, :have been wanting to 14

duty had. he so misdated himself. „i So much for
that view of the sebjeC4 •ILT which the pUblic was
Materially concerned, The rest was bet Ween indi-
viduai and individual ; and- he confessed that be
did not think the time of the House -properly em-
ployed, or the feelings "of the House properly ex-
cited, whet) such a transadion was made theSubjed
of their discussion. It was not a useful employ-
ment for Parliament, and he trusted'that there was
no man to whom theagitetion of such a question druid
be a matter oldelight. He had been taunted the
other day ss if his private regard Was to proted
a public offender. He hoped he should never assume
such a privilege.. His. private regard would induce
him to speak a few worki upon the subje&. but his
public duty would induce him tomeke those as few
as possible. He. bad -no hesitation in saving, that.
there were parts of Mr. Frere's correspondence
which he did not like. There were parts which he
did not -approve, and of which he hid not advised
his Sovereign to express his approbation. The spe-
erfi point to whin') he alluded was the demand
made by Mr. Frere, that the individual by whom
the letter froth tlie Junta of Madrid was conveyed to
Sir J. Moore should be examined before a Council
of 'War. His opinion was, that it. was Mr. Freres
duty to convey to the General every information 'in
his power ; to transmit to him the communications
of the various local Governments ; to accompany
those communications with his own honest. opinion
of their value ; and to enforce that opinion with the
,best arguments that occurred to hiM ; but there be
conceived:l hat his province ended, and that- he, ought
not to prescribe that which depended on e military
decisien. He hoped, however, he might be allow-
ed to, say -in extenuation---he could not affirm it, for
he had not the means of information, but probably
Mr. Freres letter was not ,written in the sense in
%%inch it wai.taken by Sir John Nitwit,. It was no
unusual Thing for a Minister in a foreign coentryao
transmit itiformation to 'a General, and to recorn-
' mend to him an examination before a Council of
War, as the best niode by which suspicious intelli-
gence might be deterred.' This led, him to a
circumstance on which. great stress had been
namely, the character of the „ Gendernan
by whom Mr. Frere's letter had been "convey.
eci to Sir John Moore. Of this Gentleman' be
knew nothing ; he had never seen hith ; he did not
believe that Mr. Frere had 'seen him before this
transaction ; he had not been selected by Mr. Frere
for the purpose of, conveying •informatien , to. Sir
John Moore ; be had not been sent out from this
country recommended Frere; but he belies!,
ed, that,after Mr. Frere went to Spain, Mr. Char,
tinily passed through Salamanca ; that he was not
. ill received at head-quarters ; and. than having' been
at Madrid, he. called on Mr. Frere at Talavera, on
his 'way to Salansancti, with 'a Letter from Sir J.
Moore to the Jenta at Madrid. Mr. Frere, of course,
thought it his duty to forward .Mr. Charmilly to Sir
J, Moore,, by every means in his power. With re.
spect to the chereder of .Mr, Chant-idly, although
he believed that meny
of the chaises made in anoe
titer place against him were. wholly unfounded ; yet
be must observe, tharMr. Frere ban no mere to do
with the character of;Mr. Charmilly then lie would.
have had with the charader of le conunon poatman.
Mr. Chartnilly was. the bearer of a mesiage from
the Junta of Madrid te J,
Moore, and Mr. Frew.
could by no means be responsible for the selection at
the messenger. 43ur whatever might tae thought oo
this point, be trusted that there conld be
feeling on the seotimeuts expressed
Frere,
wimp he declared thrTh ae dickeot 4espair of a cause
which it war his bounden duty to support and do-,
courage. He had before observed that tbeathance .
; of Sir J. Moore (whin edvaisce he deemed, perfealy
justifiable) could not be -ascribed to the correspond,
telt:6 of 'Mr. Frereavith Sir J.. Moore?, because. Sir
J. 'Moore bad not •traOsinitted that coriesponciace
I to GoVeinnient as the cause of his movement. But
not only 'did Sir" Mooro,' nut transmit his eor-
respondence wit Mr, as the -groend
I
f
his' advance'
:—heh ascrib Freed itw • to other groueds.—
In his dispetchesire stated it to be " iii consonance
with the general opinion, and also to that of Mr.
Frere." On what principle,or. justice Olen could
it
be said this advance arose solely 'froni the' solicitaa
tion of Mr. Frew ?
,With respect to the tone of fyr.
Frere's letters, although he .confessed that irl the
course of don there appeared something of apparent
exasreration, he could yet ,readily conceive, and,
any man must 'be, convinced who had read tire
ter; which Mr. Deere t3r;esived that they were occae.
SiOnally, calculated- to nrottece feelings not of the
most pleasant description. Out be had not stated.
all ahe grounds for Ids convi4ion, that Sir... John
NtOcire'S advanCe was not to be ascribed to ar.
I Freres interference.
to'
to that Advance, Sir
John Moore wrote: to his Noble Friend :near him,
inclosiog a letter to Marshal Souls, in which he
was represented as critically situated, and liable to
a snccesful attack. On the information contained
in that intercepted letter, air John Moore express-
ed his determination to -advance. With respect to
the advance itselfhe would say, that with all its.con-
sequences and disasters he preferred it to a retreat, at
the Mordent of Mr. Freres remonstrance.. Of those
disasters he would not spy a ward, - He would' not
charge•any thing. The battle. of Corunna covered
every thing, but the retreat itself,, and the preci-
pitaneY of it he could never cease to regret. .4.s for
the edvance Government were not, responsible, so
'Were they not responsible for the subsequent trapi-
adioni., The only way in which arty responsibi-
lity could lot a moment appear to anaph to, them,
was from the' circumstance of the transports not
being at Cbrunna wheirahe British army arrived
there; but any one who read Sir John Moore's
"' dispatches must be immediately convinced that
it was not the. Paula of GOvernment that the trans-
ports were
,sent to Vigo, and- not to Corunna.—
He was fir front wishing to speak of the disasters
of war 'as, the sebjed of tiny thing but lamen-
tation; yet; however deeply he regretted the se-
vere loss which the 4ritish sustained' at the ter-
• minatioti of the, Spanish campaign, he could not
het consider that termination as, most honourable
and advantegeous. to the country. -He hoped be
WIN not less sensible than others to .the value of
• Military services and military men ; lie hoped
' he did not feel less. admiration than others, who
had been in company with our naval and military
heroes, of that glory before which all other glory
becarne obscured., By the consent of all other ages,
acid notwithstanding 'the erguments of philosophy,
the military cheralet atood pre,ernineat in the
world. Reverting to the 'state of Spain,' he aikked,

whether bee,tu a shelad not yet been able to
off the yoke of France; and achieve her liberty, be
was therefore to. contidet her Cause...as lost.
He
trusted that Many efforts would be made ere that
melancholy result would ensue. He trusted that by
the desultory mode of warfare now adopted,
Spaniards -would, ,gradually diminish the forces a
their oppressor, and render their country a coo-
quest which it' woUld be difficult to make,, and
which it would be impossible to retain. In
.con
sistency with the principles hitherto naea ups b 1
the British Government, it was not intended to dic-
tate to the Spaniards the line of concha& which they
ought to pursue, but he trusted it would not be long
'before we should learn that thephacl adopted a, qt.-
tern by which the force of France Would 110,turned
against herself with.accumulated violenCe. ' Till that
period the universal rising in Spain agaihst the scat,
tered forces Of. the enemy. might prevent any great
advantages being gained by them. These hopes be
should. nor have been able to:entertain, 'or endea"
your to inspire, bad it nut been tor the eAperiment
Under discnssibn ; had, not military aid been atfordeJ
to Spain, and that us sget) a mode as to skew that
Great Britain felt- au earnest desire to encounter
every peril, and to share every danger,. of that: oar ,
whoie cause she so ‘varinly es 4uscd. .

ttirPw

Mr. TtERNEY supported. the Motion. ,_
The CHANCELLOR of the Exit cztualsa spoke a
,great length in vindication 'of his Majesty's Mini-
sters, and contended- that Sir John Moore was under
no necessity of following Mr. Frere's advice, farther
than it met his own judgment in military matters:
that, therefore, the. Gentlemen who professed to
advocate his cause, paid him no compliment by Or
posing that all the misfortunes in Spain were owiug
to the General's following Mr. Frere's advice in plc'
ference to his own opinion. "
Mr. BATHURST reprobated
,the manner in Which
the campaign in Spain had been concluded, 01)(13t:
• tributed its failure to the miscOndua and want 4t
concert and arrangement on the part of the Noble
► Lord at the head of the military department:
Lord HENRY PETTY spoke also in strong term;
against the condua of' Ministers with respea to the
late campaign, and imputed to their miscondttet the
failure of an enterprise that was so promising in its
commencement, and which, if properly condnded,
might have been instrumental in unfetteringthe fiber•
ties and independence of Europe: This was the more ,
to be regretted, as it bad been accompanied Iv the WA..
of so much blood, and of not less than eight millions,
sterling, and a Joss that could notiso easily,be cam*
pensated; the loss of the best General this country.
had to. boast of
-Mr. WiltrattEAD, speaking on the same side Of
• the
,question„ reprcibated the treatment Sir John
Moore ldd experienced from MiniSsers, and cep*
tended that there was something suspicious in their
.&mdtia towards him even previously to his assere4;
ing the connand, which, was 'rather the result of
accident than of the.ir }4l well
rernaindtr, of the Campaign. : .
a
' The quetiOn being loudly called fort. the Hour,*
divided, ' .
. . For the mation
Against it
m
..• ajority Well avtturingthe
119
Adjourned at Five 0'094 this morning .
---wool.

T 1-i E sV N.

IOL&M UUSI DIVIRS IA.LIUN. AVZ.P.ATI

LONDON,.

NiqiuNtspAy, MAY 10, 180ik..

It is with the utmost satisfaetion.l that wo annatmco
el
to ow Reader; the arrival of Prince STAnaabstaVat '''
. ,
iri Town, as. AmbassadoT from the Court 01. Visa*
His Highness artiyed in London about 12 O'CIOCI‘

this day, and imrnediaiely had an intervieW wiLb
CANNANG. He came 'through Holland, an 4
alter moping innumerable dangers, was picked
in a Oshingboat by one o our cruizers. The Intel'
ligence which he has brought respelling the ()peril
tions in Bavatia,- we are happy to say, differ rood
materially frarn, the accounts given the French
Bulletins. He says, that the losses sustaino
the French in the several actions were quits e'

great as tho4e of the Austrians,'and that 03 ISt° as

the .5.7.8 th ult. the French were ,unable- to sav3ticei

having suffered so severely, His Highness
high spirits, and by, no means considers tho ad"
vantages which the French obtained as ticcisi'ld
the fate of the Campaign. He also states, that in It -
ly the Austrians bad obtained some very iroporta3t
advantages, and that the Whole population 01 t"

Tyrol have risen taa man in favour of Austria.

' This morning arrivedta Gottenburgh Mail, Oa(
German Papers to the 29th ult. The contend( °t
the former, are not very interesting at -the roe°
moment, and relate to then egociation between thel
Swedish and Russian COMmanders fora cessati°l3
of hostilities relative to • the Islandi of Aland,'"
The German Papers contain a Proclamationof Yto
RLE Archduke CHAS, which we have not rooni,:
insert this day,..which was issued previous to 11)d
estrous contest, and some details respeeting the 0„,";
litary operations in Bavaria,' which are unfortunair'•
superseded by
ay the
were Frenchenable Bull 4,
etins.
We in a part of our inn
pression, to lay before our Reaciers the substauce,,,
the two French Bulletins. We bave this day tra„.
fated the whole of the First Bulletin,' but are c°'"ho
pelted, by thetength of the Debate,
Second till to-morow. •pti
kt) postpone.l
The Gazetttiol bit night notices the app°l
4„,esty
meet of ROBERT ADAIR, Ell. to b 0 at
Ambassador Extraordinary end PlenipotentituY__6o
the Sublime Ottoman. Porte; and of S're,s'rruP
CANNING, Esq. to- be Secretary of the Pnbasst'
~,ourtr
Lotroom : Printed by R. VlAakts (or Morn loth
Row street), and published by W. A. Scair" `()
Moulton•streetl, at the Sun-Ottice, tra,