The Sun.
London, England, 1807-03-27 00:00:00

rICTUAL L ING- 0 FFICE,

• March 2,;', 1807;
rrHE COMMISSIONERSfor VICTUAWAG
. HIS .11A
.7ESTY'r NAVY do berth), give Notice, That
on Wednesday next, the tit of April, they will be ready to receive
Tenders, in of sealed up), and treat for One tiundrid Tons
of the best N'ew t AROLINA,,or EAST INDIA RICE,
to he ansWerable toSamplet t',Ge produced with the -Tenders ; to 6e
delivered Ohe-half in a Fa:-t,:ight, and the remaiaiLr in- a Month,
-7'71-; Majr.ay's- Yietaatling• Stores at geptlcrd ; and to- be
Paid Icr by Bills, payable, with Interest, ninety days after date.
The Conditions of the -Contrail stay be seen at the. Secretary's
Office,

No regard 'will be bad to ans. Tender in which the Price shall
not he insetted in words at length, or that iball mot Gr delivered to.
the Board &fore One o'Clocit on the said Wednesday,. the if!
of April, nor unless the Person who makes the Tende, , or some
Person on hia behaff. attoids; to answer, -when called jot.

•
To THE PROPRIETORS OF EAST INDIA STOCK,
LAnits AND G.INTLEIVIEN.
IMPRESSED with the greatest Respe& and Grafi
tude, fur the Bartering manner which my Pretensions to
the Yanvir Seat in the East•lndia
_Direction have been re-,
Ceived by the Proprietors in general, and for the numerous
PrOmises of ,Support assured me in the course of my Canvass,
leaves me no reason to doubt the favourable issue of
the approaching Elethon, permit me respectfully to.request
you will accupt my grateful and sincere acknowledgment for
your kitid intentions towards me; and as the Ballot ot the
House is fixed for Wednesday the Bth of April next,
that you will then honour me with yourearly AttendailLeand
Vote.
f Plated, by your Suffragts, in the honourable ,iination of
la Direthor, allow the again to assure you of my hest endea-
tdurs to perform the duties ot the Office with zeal and
elity,.and to protnote at al; times, to the best of thy
e important interests of tile Company,.
I.remain, with the greatest R.espeet.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
tour faithfUl obliged humble Servant,
CAMPBELL MAILIORIBANKS:
nerner's.street, March ns 1807 e

BRITISH EIRE-OFFICE,
London, March 26. 18s7.
Notict :is hereby g;ven,,That a GENERAL
COURT of ROPRIETO RS of this Office will be
Ilolden on WEDNESDAY, the ist Day of April next,. at
Twelve o'Clock at Noon, at their Office in the strand, for
the EleSion of Six DiteSort to succeed those who go out by
rotation—for the E lesion of a Direttor to continue in office
141161 April, 181, in the lootn of George Wye' Esq. de-
Ceased--ad fit the Eledion of Three Auditors,for the year

ROBERT SKELTON, Secretary.

. TO PRINTE,RS ANb S PATIONERS.
r°
v BE DISPOSED OF; on Very Athlriiageous
.Terrns, a Well- Established BUSINESS and STOCK
tiNgtARDE ofa PRINTER, STATIONER, and BOOK-
Particulars may be known by applying to Mr: Gore; Nco.
tecil-square; Margate.

TO BE SOLD
E. LEASE of an excellent 'HOUSE, in !Me-
" marle-street, Piecadillk, tit for immediate reception
Rent and Taxes
Particulars at Mr: Bate's, Welbeck-street,• Cavendish-
',9uate ; Mr. Harman's, Conduit-street, BoAd-Strcet, House
'agents ; and John Rutherford's, Esq. No. 93, BartholomewAldersgate-street, City.

u. • •
wv ANTED TO REZ7T, and Enter upon immediately,
UNFURNISHED,
6
• c'MMODIOUS and CONVENIENT FA-
miLy HOUSE, with a small Garden or Outlet; in
ITairy Situation, either in the Neighbourhood of Brompton,
ensington, or Harmuer4rnith.
'Letters (post-paid) addressed to A. B. No. 92, Charlotte
treet; Rathbone. places containing particulars, as to Rent;
number of Roonis, Situation, &c. &c. will be attended td.

FOURTEENTH OF APRIL.
GOVERNMENT' STA T F LOTTERY nEGiIiS
bRAWINC3,
Anti contains Two Hundred and
,Fifty Thousand Pounds in
Sterling Money.
THIS is the most extraordinary SCHEME dyer
produced in the Annals of Lotteries. The unpteee.:
dented Number of Grand ?rites makes
Every Lottery-Office a 'triple of Wealth ;
Every Adventurer is in the Read to Riches;
E very Ticket drawn 14th A will be a Prite;
.Every Prize will be paid as soon as drawn.

seHEmt.
4 Pfizcs of kzo,coo - - are - - k gOOOO
4 .. - - - . ;10,000 . - .. .. _
4oiooo
.. . - .. sOOO
loco - to,oo-c,
~ to - - - - soo
50c0
.So -- - Jou - 3cclo
40. .. • - - 50
tOdb . - - - 20 - - -- - - 60,000
3000 First•drawn Tickets zo each - - - - 30,000
-..........
,-.
425,0:0 Tickets
,C2co,coo
.........

Fitst.draMi Ticket, fat Day - - k 20,000
Ditto - - 2d Day - - 23000
Ditto - - - .3(1 Day - - 20,00ci
•
Ditto - 4th Day - - 20,000
' Ditto _ - - • stli Day to,ooo
Ditto - 6th Day - - 20,000
"PICKETS and SNARLS are selling at all the old cal-
oliheci Offices in England, Ireland, and Scotland.
The i.irst-drawn Ticket will-receive Twenty Thottsancl
Pounds.

Ticket - -
r: - £l9
Qn,,r,e; - Zit" 3 o L.ighth - -,r2 12 0
5 3 o Sixteenth - t 6 6

SPRING STATE i.oTTERv,
To begin the 14th of April next.
ODGES, PAIN E, and Co. Stock-Brokers,
Corniiill, OxfOrd.street. and St. lames's-street (esta-
blished yearsb are now selling the TICKETS and Legal
SHAR LS on the hest Terms,
mand. at their above Offices, where
all Prizes arc paid o:‘ de
•
S E contains
• 4 ' Prizes of -
,C 20,000
4 - - lotcoo
&c.

Lord IVESTMORLAND rose only to congratu-
late the House on the statement now made by the
Noble Lord, .and at the same time to remind that
Noble. Lord. and his friends, that this statement did
not prove, that on their accession to power they had,
succeeded to, .dilapiiatcd resources, &c.—Motion
agreed to.
CITA,NG E rERs.
Lord HAwKtsBURY then Moved, that the House
upon its rising do adjourn till Wednesday •se'nnight.
LOrdGRENOLLE took this occasion to address
the'House, not. wi"tha view of Opposing the motion
of adjournment, but a4'tt w. 6 net unusual up'en such
rnotions.to advert to the then circtunsiances ,of the
country; to state and expl,iin tho3e transactions
which gave rise to the. change of ,Administration,
which so very recently had taken pldce It was now
abo'it six years, since he and thoseofthOse who were
then his.Calleagties in the administration of public
atiairs, had deemed it their indiSpensible duty to re-
tire from office, induced to take that step from con-
siderations which even now he should' forbear to
mention ;, while he would only say that he shohld
never repent theinbtftes which in his'inind didated
that forbearahee:l' The, consequence, however, Of it'
was,.that.the actions and motives of that Administra-
tion were then made the subje& Of the same gross
misrepresentations upon their retiring, that are now
attempted to be affixed upon the late Ministers, who
have not resigned their placeS, but who have surren-'
dered them at the will of the Royal Prerngati've, in
which rests the power to displace them: Warned by
that experience, he shOuld'now_en ter intq a plain and
distill& avowal of the motiv,es. skr4i436 6aided kite
condu&, and that of his colleagues; because, after
what had passd,' he thought that House and the
Country might justly claim such an avowal.—But
a stronger reason at present urged him to this expla-
nation. For he had to ask their Lordships, at what
period it had ever happened that the advice which
had been submitted to. the King upon any important •
matter, by his confidential servants, acing under, the
suggestions of their' duty, was irregularly and un-
faithfully dragged before the public ? That advice
had been delivered in writing, and he was glad that
it existed in that shape, for it would inform the pre-
sent GoVernment to what it had•succeeded. Bnt they
()right to have recollected • that, if -they wished to
know the authors of any.ill advice given to the-So-
vereign, there were two Constitutional modes of
getting at themeither by an Address to the Crown,
or by a Parliamentary Inquiry. But what was here
resorted to to misrepresent .his coriduCt and 'that
of his Colleagues ? Not a fair Parliamentary In-
quiry; but a garbled and' mutilated, account of
what has passed thrust into the public Newspapers.
—He might ask the House and the Country, 'if ever
any one instance had yet occurred of so producing
such. matters before the publiC eye.,--He knew to
What he was bound by his oath, with respell
to communications of that nature—even with the So-
vereign's perthission, he should not think himself at
liberty to divulge them—But upon a representation
to his Majesty of the situation, in whiCh such strangei
misrepresentations had placed him, he not only had
the permission, but had his Majesty's express wish,
declared to him with' that kindness; and cuticlestensitin which had ever uniformly Marked his Mai
jesty's behaviour towards him, 'to • make such open
declaration and eXposition of what had passed; as.
Seemed to be indispensibie to clear his conduCt hi
these late transactions, and vinditate his charaCter in ,
the eyes of that liaise and of the Country: At the
period of six years ago tie had the happiness to at iti
concert with that= distinguished Statesman (Mr.
Pitt), a charader to whom he was attached, not
only from private affection,' but from the respect to
which that great man was entitled on account of
the signal services lie had rendered to the public.
He, in common with his colleagues,' proposed that
some larger indulgelicies should be granted to the Ca-
tholics of Ireland ; that measure be considered as one
of extreme and parathonnt importance, and in that
opinion he then agreed with that Wise Statesman,and
in the same opinion he still remained; 'but finding that
the poWer was denied them of -carrying it into cxc
cution,they withdrew from Office. The same opinion
wasentertained by his great rival (Mr. Fox), that other
splendid luminary ofworn the Country is now• de-
prived—if he erred in his late' advice, he had the cOn-
solatian to reflect, that he erred; With the two great-
est Statesinen'this Country, or any other; had per-
haps ever' seen. The other two grLt -meastas
. in
which these exalter' charaders had ever agreed abotit,
was the Sinking Fund, and the Abolition of "the
Slave Trade. Aiie first Measure was iininedialely
adopted on the proposing of it. The other was at
tength accomplished after hitch time, hesitation, op‘
position, and difficulty:, The thirdtneasiire had forits .
objet to conciliate the Catholics qflireland by

, 7,5. • .•

ness and indulgence, and in his attempts to give effea
to thit( measure, be had the countenance and con-
currence of the same great authorities; and indeed,
when he considered that measure in all its bearings, and
compared them with the ohjeetions against it,there was
no personal sacrifice which he Would not be ready
again and again to make of every thing dear to public
men, sooner than relinquish a measure pregnant with
such advantages ; for no advantages can be equal
to what could be obtained, from four 'millions of men,'
on the ground of conciliation, whom he thought it
his duty to proteel against persecution and ,exclusion.
Since that period he had. been invited again to come
into office ; and many now heard him who were
well acquainted with the impressions under which"
-he took his Majesty's commands to frame a new Ad-
ministration. They knew it to be his principle and
determination never to forego his right to state his.
opinion in Parliament upon, that great and leading
feature, though some considerations might induce
him to select the fittest time. He was, however,
aaquetsted to present. the Catholic Petition, which
he considered as an honour, because the request
afforded him a .pledge, that his resolution on that
head was not supposed to have varied ; and that that
'respedable body of our fellow-subjects, looked
upon him as: steady to the principles he bad pro-
fessed; and, certainty; no consideration could have
prevailed upon him to shrink from the performance
of that duty. He willingly undertook it, and felt
himself bound to make' it matter of deliberation.
Every one knew the event of that Motion, and the
large majority by which it was resisted ; but that
majority was no proof to him that under other cir-•
cumstances the same Motion might not be acceded
to: After the formation of the late Administration,,
which, upon tine death of 'his illustrious Friend'
(Mr. Pitt), he had the principal part in framing,
the sentiments he entertained upon - this subject
were' the sentiments :of that eminent Statesman,
(Mr. Fox), and of the majority of the Cabinet.
These` sentina4nts, or any other he. might adopt,
as conducive to the public good, he thought him-
self at liberty to prOpase in any moment of ditfie
culty which should press:them more upon his Mind.
Indeed 'he could not supposes that he was called
upon to discharge any duty but What his conscience
aud'the Constitetion would allow. That liberty was
left him by-his Oath, which .bound- him to give full,,
fair, and open counsel -to- his Sovereign ; the.best,
counsel his judgment, could frame upon-all emera
gencies whenever they should arise., Never did-he
suppose, that any restraint Was put uporChim as to
the Catholics: on the contrary, he considered himself
and 'his colleagues to' be wholly unfettered upon that •
subject. Never did a doubt enter' his mind that he
came into-the Cabinet with that or any ottier painful
teelir4, though he Was anxious that no pre:Aar-a:a
asassasteasiaces snouin otaige turn unseasonably to stir .
any question of this nature. • The inslruationsOf the
Noble Duke, who so, faithfully represents- the
virtues of his Majesty in Ireland, were so framed,
that hia manner of administering the existing laws in ,
that country, should be steady, temperate, and mild;
and of a, complexion and tendency to enable
vernment to postpone dui consideration of the',,
Catholic Claims for the present. The wish of Go-
vernment was, to knit the hearts of all descriptioas
of his Majesty's subjeetS together, and to do every
thing that could possibly be done by: gentleness
and mildness to obtain that salutary object, and pre-
vent the agitation of a question that would risk any.
painful sensation in the breast of.the, Sovereign. It
was therefore the first object with Government tá
take the earliest measures to prevent the revival of the
Catholic question; but the state of. Ireland AVaS not
very favouraoletto 'their wishes. Last .year disturb-
ances continued in Ireland, which, no doubt,, every,
Noble Lord present would be anxious to Compose ;
bait which, in hiS opinion, Would best and perma-
nently be composed by the measures which =he was
al ways,desirous to . propose—by measures of lenity,
and a regular administration of justice ; and not, by
any extraordinary,feree, whiCh nothing but neces-
sity could justify ; and so well they were.composed
by mere civil justice. Such was the situation- of
'lreland when he and:his Colleagues came into of-
lice, and their-attention was called to it on va-
rious' grounds :--on the ground of the
.disturb-
ances ; on -the ground of our pwn promises ; and
on-the-ground of. other very serious considerations.
The total destraation of Prussia had thrown a larger.
disposable force into the hands of the, Ruler
of France than was ever before wielded. by any. Po-
tentate a we had not only to look to present, but to
_future and distant ,dangers. These apprehensions
rurally inclined us to endeaVot r to raise'a large
force to secure us against these dangers,.espe-
ciallywere a peace tobe made on .the Continent which
did not include England. He was ready to contend
that no measure was better calculated to ansi,verathese
views than tlit lately submitted to Parliament none
could bet tenpromote the great interests of the Empire,
and of Ireland in particular. Remould induce a, large ,
body oldie Irish peasantry to enter into the Army
and Navy. A similar Leasure was prOposed by Lord
Chatham, with respect to the Highlands of Scot-
land; and it produced the effeEts which.he was confi-
dent would attend 'the one which he now recorn-
Mended.- Yet tlse Same fears and jealousies then pre-
vailed with retard to the Highlands as are now en-
tertained with respea. to the Irish Catholics.. It
should also -beconsidered, that Ireland was rapidly
rising in commerce, in agriculture, in every useful
branch of industry ; above. all, she was increasing in
population, for whom there was.not adequate employ-
riant. The measure thatwas to meet this state °fa hings
was not what is generally, understood by the-Catholic
Question. It was one calcialated to induce the Irish
Catholics to enter largelyandli.beraliy into the Army
and Navy ). he said largely and. liberally, because it
was supposed that many were already sft• employed a.
but the number of those now so employed was ina.
finitely small in comparison of what this new measure
would furnish. 'And .inciaf.l, until some rue4suTe of

this tendency is adopted, and one that can induce
the better classes; s the yeertiatiry, &c. of that
Country to enter the Army and Navy ; until_
there is held out to diem some prosPe& of so-pro-,
viding for the younger branches of- their fiimjlies, -
with what reason can you expe& an aa-tive and
cordial co-operation on the part of those classes,
whose' influence and example would, prove the beSt
instruments in obtaining this great advantage to the
Empire. There, may, , indeed', be one exception .
among these classes, and that. is their clergy, olio
would naturally discountenance the enlisting- of the
peasantry under their care, because they would be
taken to where their religion was not prote&ed and
secured by law. It was in vain to say they would-
.not be molested in that respe& ; Men Will anxiously •
look to the,laws, as the common and only valid seus
..rity. The Bill in contemplation would have secured
it to them, arid furnished the means of largely see
truitine the Catholic peasantry. Without ii it is un;.
reasonable to expectthe same alacrity, the san.iii
contentment. Indeed nothing adequate to meet and
gratify their expeClations, and here he would not !Se-
sitate to say, thatthe Irish Catholics are acting in a
manner highly injurious to-their own interests, and
to the interests of Ireland; by cOntinuing to urge
their Petition. With a view to induce them to de-
fer it to a later period, end .not-as a., coniPrornise
,for. •
their ulterior objects, was the measure proposed that
would enable them to hold any military or naval corn:-
missions, and to remove *the inconveniences which
arise from the law as it now stood in Ireland.-=.
Ttn re the A& passed in the Irish Parliament in 1793, .
admitting the. Catholics to serve in the army.in. Ire-
land, no danger was apprehended beree on the con-
trary, it received a most gracionsreComnendatioti;
from the Throne in this Country. Ihnitationg•
and restridions of the A6t:w6re the sugge,
work of the Irish Parliament Still, however, trig
Catholics could aspire to any rank below 'a General ,
of the Steil. The same Ad opened to them, the
profession of the Navy, though not, perhaps, in so
dire& a. manner. From 1793, to the present day, ,
has any inconvenience occurred, has anyeniSctief
been 'complained of, either from this poWer, or J
the exercise of it even in that Catholic Couue. ,
try? Should the War continue for any length
of time, is 'it not likely that some attempt will h~
made to invadelthis Country, or Ireland, or perhaps.-
I both ? In such cases, would it not he desirable to be
able to remove
.tO this Country any'disposable
in Ireland,.and vice versa ; but as the law now stands
sin this countrY, we: should not be able to avail our-S
selVes of the services of any of the Catholic Cotps, of
Officers who are serving in Ireland, Linder-1(1e ACI
of 1793. As 'soon as they
.carne over to this.
couritry,-they would be subje& to the lawS that and
.rut c..tcaiioncs Serving in
the Army, erll would be,exposed to
.whaLgallantS
men would dread most, the :necessity of desert=.
ipg their. colours, or exposing themselves to the.
penalties which the law might inflia. can anything,;
be more incongruous and absurd ? or what should, ;
most excite surprise,: that such, absurdity shoblit
have ever existed; or that,. it should
.5e- Perinitesd.
'to continue a day longer.? Then what was psus
posed was no innovation ; it already existed.: in 're-'
land, and had nothing in it fo, create uneasiness iii
any quarter. It was like Wise the best remedy.
could be proposed to Parliament for such
Then, after the experience of 13 years that this last
and principle have existed without anyPanger,,tc) Go-`
vernment„ still to say that the Catholics tire to be
admitted only to the lower ranks of the arMy, and'
proscribed from' Generals, on the 'Staff—hoWever.
long, meritorious, and brilliant their services; hoes.,
ever great the display of mind and talents they may.
exhibit; however, by all these merits and qualities
they have acquired the_ confidence and affection of
the soldiers, yet . they are never to 'be entrusted
with any high command ; with any opportunity of'
signalizing themselves, or of signally serving their
country. He was,
.he was confident, as, zealoUslY
attached to the Established Church as any men ; yet
he must feel it to be hard and unjust in the:extreme,
that in whatever-country,
,whether in the East or
-West Indies, an Irish Catholic may evince the first
military talents,. yet there is something to be sup-
posed.inherent in hiS. belief that is to be fixed on as
a. stigma, and which for ever excludes front
every situation of command. What he would pro-
pose was founded in justice—it went only to
.open_ the
.Army to the. Cdtholics on principle's
of reason, policy, and' liberality : to give the boon
liberally ; to receive in return cordial, zealous, and
liberal exertions. Now a word on the Naval pro-
fession. By the Irish A& it iS.confined to the' Irish
Ports, so that if a ship commanded by an 'lrish'
Catholic was to be ordered to any British port, he
would ;save no power to aoi.. The sanfe.absurdiiiis.
apparent•here as with
,regard to the Army ; that
also should be done away, and the a&-opening the
naval „service. to Catholics be made open and di
relit, and not as it.now, is, by implicatibn„ Thole
,is another circumstance, not to be overlooked :
In.the year.) 773 all offices, both civil and military,
.were, without any restri&joil, Opened to the Protest-
ant Dissenters ff
.in Ireland. Here the case is dis
The English Dissenters must take the Sacra-
mental test; but if the-At of 1793 be adopted here,
,you admit all the Catholics, but.yeo exclude all the
Protestant Dissenters. ,Ceuld such a measure, then,
be, put in. force here, without.giving just reason Of
complaint to the Protestant Dissenters, who, if an
option was to be made,, should -surely rather have
the preference from. the friends of the Established
Church. These views of justice, policy,- and
common sense, must therefore, haVe dictated ; the
propriety= of proposing a
,measure that would en-
able all descriptions of his, Majesty's Subjects to
contribute, hear( and hand, to the common cause,
and to
_frustrate the ,desperete and abominable
designs of the common Enemy.
_The Noble Lord
then entered into a detail of the steps that had
been takeo in
.concert with the Duke of Bedford in

Ireland, to, prepare this measure : every step that
had been taken in it, and every dispatch ,received
respecting it from Ireland, were duly communicated
to his Mai.,sty. The..Proposal_ was, to adeipt the
Irish Act, and moreover to enable his Majesty
to grant anConunissioo, Naval or Military,, with
out restriclion; to Irish Catholics, on condition of
their taking the oath of allegiance. On these
points eo disapprobation :was expressed by his
Majesty. [As the .whole of the ,progress of
these transaMions, from the beginning to the end, is
detailed in. our. report of Lord Hewick's• Speech,
Which in these particulars exactly corresponds with
that of Lord Grenville, we forbear to repeat them
here again.] The Noble Baron then asked with much
Warmth, what more could he have -dime ? Yet, after
all that, how hard, bow insulting; how' degrading
.was it to be accused of an at tempt .to delude, to
betray, to impose upon His. Majesty i He might
be 'mistaken in the. -pet-Oil-mance 01, his- duty ;
• but he .:surely,kept clear, of any .thing so base, so
mean, so disgraeeful, as an intention to betray any
man, muchilessa Sovereign whom he so loved and
venerated, And „to,i,iliom he Was bound by so many
and such a'Wfal ties. Yet such is the foul accusation
preferred against him in the public
.Newspapers,
whiCh contain the mutilated passages of the Mi.-
nutes -of Council .10. which he .had alreacly alluded.
Much misrepresentation had aisti gone abroad re-
speCting the reasons assigned for dropping the Bill.,
and -for e-entintiin4 to think it his indispensable duty,
whenever the affairs of Ireland recurred, to offer to
his Majestytich open and fair OviCe as the nature
of the circomtances might call for, and his best judg-
ment suggest. Had the Bill been dropped, and no-
thing observed`-in justification of such a step, what
would have ben-:the consequence? Would not those
by whom he was -now.accused, arraign him of con-
cealment and of mystery ? • It was thiretWre judged
more candid., 'Open, and manly, to declare his real
opinion, and confess, that if any new circumstances
arose in Ireland to make it expedient to propose such
a measure, he should feel an imperieuS and indispens-
able diity to advise that, whatever it might be,which,
in his opinion, would most effeaually meet the exi-
gency of the moment. This line of condita,
he thought, Much more easily defended, than if the
Bill had been dropped,, and no reason assigned-
for a measure so unaccountable. The part Lie

aaed in this business was throughout couformable
to his oath as a PriVy Councillor. Have the Ministers
4o succeed hilt accepted power on the terms pre-
sdribed to him ? If they have, where is their respon-
sibility ? There is no responsibility, when there is
116 freedom of anion. Yet if Ministers be not re-
sponsible for the measures that are adopted, on
whom does the responsibility fall ? Surely not on the
Ding.—Were that the case, then the root. and
foundation of
,the whole system of the British Go-
vernment is gone ; for it rests on the old esta-
blishtxl principle, that the King can do no
wrong. Take away that principle, and. you
sap the foundation of all Monarchical Government :
yin would establish ,the opposite principle, that
the King, and not the Ministers, are responsible.
Whether he entertained a just view of this.subjea'
or not, he would .not hesitate to declare, that
-••-mut to administer upon such principles,
would not only cc pigory ak.:•
in his judgment, be a great crime. The situation
in which his Majesty's new Advisers have placed
themselves is certainly a most ardtious and critical
one. The late Ministers did not receive, neither do
they return to, a bed of roses. Still, however, much
has been done' both for the finances; the commerce,
the defence, and.the security, of the Country. Not
-* little also has been done with respea to our relations
ind connexions with Foreign Powers. Still, how-
ever, much continues to be done, and he had only
now to wish that neither those who undertook it, or
the Country, should have any reason to lament what
has happened.
Lord SIDMOUTH assured the House that the
measure r. (mid not have been proposed at all if it
had not had the sanaion of his Majesty, and agreed
with his Noble Friend, that the .exposure of any
thing that passed in his Majesty's Cabinet, in WhiCh
all the Members were sworn to secrecy, could not
• be justified but by an over-ruling necessity. That
necessity had, in the present instance, occurred, inas-
much as some persons, acing without the authority
of the King, had published to 'the world mutilated
and garbled statements of the Minutes of the Pro-
ceedings of the Cabinet. On this 'ground it was,'
that his Noble Friend had 'solicited the permis-
sion. of his Majesty to. state the truth, and nothipg
but the truth, to that Hbuse„ respeaing the trans-
adion. It was his own wish, as well as that of his
Noble Friend, that the whole truth should be
fairly submitted to the House on this subjea. He
'was anxious to guard, by.every proper means, that
principle of the Constittuton, that the King could do
no wrong, and that his Ministers alone were respon-
sible for the measures of his Government. His'No-
ble Friend had fully stated, that the difficulties Which
had occurred had arisen Item misconception alone,
which, from the circumstances that took place, was
not extraordinary. It was 'on this ground Mat he
was induced to solicit their Lordships' attention for a
short time. In this he was justified only by a liberal
construBion of the permission of his Majesty to
hjs Noble Colleague, to give an explanation on the
subject ; a permission which, he acknowledged, had
not been given personally to himself. The tnez.
sure originated from a dispatch of the 9th or
, "10th of February, from the Irish Government, as
stated by his Noble Friend. That dispatch con-
tained.only a proposition to make the Act of the Irish
Parliament of 1793 general; and sure he was, that,
when the subject had been first discussed, he had
stated, that they had no alternative but to repeal the
Irish Akt, or to go the length proposed. If it had been
a new question, he should have had a decided ob-
jection to it ; but as the measure had been adopted
in Ireland, and the Ad of Union had been passed,
he thought it would be an incongruity not to make
'the provisions of the Ad general, by adopting it.—
Another step had been added, and there could not
:appear any good reason why, if the Irish Catholics
were to be admitted into the Army, the British Ca-
tholics Should not also. He had thus distindly stated
thafthe measure had his approbation, because he
looked upon it as consequential to the former mea-
sure, the provisions of which it was to make general.
it appeared to him, that it bad been so 'understood
at the first Cabinet that discussed it, as well as ata
subsequent Cabinet: and also by that Noble Lord,
(Lora Huwick) fur whose principles, integrity, and

talents, Imahould ever feel the highest respea,
well as by Mr. Elliot, who did not feel him Sell au-
thorised to state,. that the Catholics. were to be a 4::;.
mitted, into. the Army without limitation, till,-he
consulted the English Government. The first dis 7.
patclh, too, expressly mentioned Military Conunis,
sins only; and as it was aherwards found necessary,
in order to make the clauses intended-to be introduced.
into the Mutiny Bill, extend, to the restriaed cases,
to introduce. the words
," and appointments," he
contended that the first intention was only to adopt
the ir6h A&. He was satisfied,-however, that no-
thing but! a misconception could have Jed to a dif,
ferent opinion on the part of Lord 'HOwick, who,.
after his communication with his Majesty on the 4th,
must Certainly have felt that- nothing had occurred ,
at that interval to. prevent him .from opening the
measure as he had done to -the House,. and who,
could not have been.sensible of his Majesty's objec-
tionsto it. As to the communication that, had beep
made to his Majesty on the part of some of his Ma-
jesty's servants, neither he, nor the Noble Lord on
the-Woolsack, nor another Noble Lord, bad been
present at. the Cabinet when it. was proposed. As
to the general poliCy of the question respe&ing the
- Catholics, he should Only say, that no man was more
ready than himself to carry toleration, to the greatest -
length ; but he must make a distihaion between ter
leration and power. Toleration was. .the right of
every subject--but power was. a delegated trust, and
not a right. , In. this view, he had always been of
• opinion, that the most minute concession to the Caf-
tholics would haVe no teiTelency, either to satisfy
them, or to promote tranquillity—but to 'subvert the
Protestant Church and Establishments. He should'.
not look at the question tinder all the circumstances
in which it might be viewed—but he should taVe his
stand at that point at which the Union had left. us.
He abhorred. the idea of raising any outcry in the
Country; but.yet he felt what was due to the Esta-
blisbnient, and would not give power to the Ca., .
tholies. Though he, differed in this. fain) many of
the ablest and wisest men of these or any times, yet
it was his opinion, and no considerations should pre-
vent
:him from declaring it. When he became .a
Member of that GoVernment, which now unhap-
pily, as he thought, for the country, had been dis.
solved, he bad not comprised that opinion, nor given
any pledge, though he had an expeaation that the
question would not have been brought forward.
Lard HA IPICESB URY bad never heard the No-
ble Viscount with more real satisfaOion than during
the speech which he bad just finished, because he
perceived that his Noble Friend had not abandoned
those principles Upon which he had formerly acted.
—When this measure had been brought forward,
he felt considerable satisfaEtion that his Noble Friend
was a Member of Administration, because he was
convinced that the country had in him in .the Ca-
binet a security against the attempt to break down
the Church Establishment. He was Pally sensible
of the delicacy of the question before the House; he
felt the delicacy of a discussion when a question was
at issue between a subject and. his Sovereign. It
was not for him to decide whether or not this dis-
cussion could have been avoided. Much bad been
said_ by ahe Noble Baron and the Noble Viscount of
the Publications that had taken place on this subje&.
thPcP hi-, kew nothing, and felt as much regret
as any person that such staletiaaas
their way to the public. But he must observe, that
previous to his having any knowledge of the trans-
aaion, there had been many rumours in circelation,
diretily contrary to the fad, and proved to be so
by the statement of the Noble Baron himself, which
had proceeded, no doubt, from individuals not Con-
neaed with his Majesty's Government. Under
these circumstances, he had thought it his duty to
request the permission of his Sovereign, after notice
of the Noble Baron's intention had been given, to
communicate the whole circumstances of the case to,
his friends, in order, that if this discussion Should un-
fortunately come en, they might be prepared to meet
it, and to state, on the part of his Majesty, What
were those principles, both with regard to the honour
Of the Crown and the. interests of the Empire, that
had induced him to adopt the course which he_ had ,
taken, The Catholic subject was not a new one.
It bad often been under consideration, and had,
about two years since, after the most ample discus-
sion, in both Houses of Parliament, been decided up.
on by the largest majorities ever known, considering
the charaaer and talents of the persons who had
brought it forward. The Noble Baron had stated
what would be the effect of the measure, both as to
its immediate result, and with reference toitsfutute
consequences ; but he should beg . leave to state
what had been the feeling of that illustrious Person
(Mr. Pitt), whose virtues, charatter, and unrivalled
abilitieS, were universally admired, beloved, and re-
vered,
but who unfortunately was, then no more,
Upon this subjed. When that distinguished Person
had come last into office, though he had betbrewit h-
drawn from his public situation in consequence of this
measure, yet knowing the honest, conscientious
principles that prevailed against it, principles which
ought to be upheld in any quarter, but still more in
that exalted quarter in which they existed, he. had,
not in consequence of any pledge demanded of him,
but voluntarily, engaged not to bring forward the ques-
tion. He stated this as a fad known to himself, and
not as a reproach to, the Noble Baron ; he stated
merely what had been the opinion and feeling upon
this subject of so high an authority,, for which the
Noble Baron must entertain as high a respe& as
himself. He had less difficulty in stating this, be-
cause he had always differed from his late Right
Hon. Friend upon this question, which he bad al-
waysestimated on the merits. He agreed entirely
with the Noble Viscount, that if the policy pursued
should not be steady on this head, they would be
continually fomenting troubles and discontents.—
Whilst he was- ready to admit that no ordinary law-,►
should be unchangeable—yet there were fundatnen-
tal laws which ought not io be altered, except upon
the most pressing necess'ty. The Right of Peti-
tion, the Trial by Jury, and the Independence of
the Judges, were fundamental principles of the
Constitution ; and a Protestant Government and
E-tablishments wereequally so. The same changes
that might be wise with respe& to other laws, were
not to be applied to the fundamental laws. They
might Alta. the constitution 'of the army, the esta-
blishment of the navy, the regulations- of the re-
venue, or, as they were at that time in the course of
doing, the administration of justice ; but if any
such change were to be carried into effe6l with re-
sped to the national establishment, it would (tver-

throw . the constitution. this cioarin -might be
terined bigotry ; bur he would prefer to any ness;•,!
lights;-the b:2,otry of 7itis3, which had effeaed the
IleveletkeTo., and establi'shed the lib vies of this
Country on the most solid fotuidatiou. Before he
shcinkt comment upon what had been stated by tlitt
Neble Baron; he be,lged 'to say 'a few 'Words upon
the-subjeli .of the_ partienlar.meastsres
_that have le4l.
to the present circomstances. He could not conceive
any pra&ical goOd that could result from it. He
bad differed with, the Noble .Lords opposite on the
Catholic claims,-and on that subje& he could un-
derstand their arguments, but it was otherwiSe with
respea to this measure. Had they any reason to
think that this measure would have satisfied the
Catholics, or, that having obtained this, they Would
not equally desire every thing else ? This Measure'
was to give them the sword, but to refuse . them
every thitig,beside; and yet he had never conversed
with,any person, upon the, subjeo, who would ,not
rather grant to, the Catholics what his Majesty's
Ministers by
,this measure refused them, and refuse
what they granted. He was adverse to this mea,
sure, becanseit would grant what was dangerous
tq give, and was not calculated to give satisfataion
or to produce Content., He came next to consider
the misunderstanding that had taken place upon the ,
subject. In observing upon this part of the state'-
ments of the Noble Baron, and
,in supplying some ,
particulars which had been omitted by him, he did
not feel any inclination to detract from the credit
due to the Noble Baron's statement, or to give a
partial colour to the case. If he should be guilty
of any inaccuracy, the Noble • Baron would, he
trusted, correct him ; and in the obserVations which
he proposed, o make, he was actuated by a desire
of promoting the honour oithe Crown, the dignity
of the King, and, with reference to themselves, of
discharging a-most scrupulous duty. The Noble
Baron had acetirately stated that the' measure had
originated iri the dispatch from 'the Irish Govern-
ment. This dispatch had been laid before his Ma-
jesty, and bpon an attentive perusal of the contents
of that dispatch, he was, of the opinion of his Noble,
Friend, that all that was desired in this dispatch was
the ,extension of the previsioes of the Irish Mt
generally;. this was the impression, upbn his mind
„
on reading the dispatch,•and the same impression
seemed, to have been felt by Mr. Elliott,' who, when
asked by the Catholic Deputies, whether the mea-
sure was to remove the limitations of the Irish Ael:
declined an explicit answer, till he should refer the
qUestion to the British Government. His Majesty
had, in the first instance, unequivocally and strong-
ly declared his disapprobation of the measure.—
In, consequence of this disapprobation, a long Ca-
binet Minute had been laid before his Majesty; de-
tailing, in ail able manner, the reasons for the
adoption of the measure, with a view to induce him
to retract . his objection, and to consent to a mea-
sure of a limited nature. It was impossible, there-
fore, that either the Noble Viscount; or the Noble
and Learned Lord, could have supposed that the
measure was to go farther than to make the pro-
visions of the lrish Mt general. A doubt might
indeed have been felt, and he had entertained that
feeling, whether the measure was only to inchide
Irish Catholics, or the Catholics of the Empire. But
upon a more attentive perusal of the Minute, he was
convinced that it had been proposed to extend the
provisions of the measure to th.
Empire. He stated this to prove,
.that by every ar-
eument which had been used to obtain his Majesty's
0
consent to the measure; it was clear that the Bill
proposed was only to extend the provisions of the
Irish Bill. His Majesty was assured that it was
only the same measure to which he had consented
in 1793, and that the present Measure was Only
iir-
tended to carry into etre& that MtaCcOrding to the
prinCiple upon which it had been enacted. That
principle 'had been to give the Catholics the privi- .
lege of holding certain Commissions in the Army, at
the same time reserving others ; and if the principle
of the Aa 011793 were to have been the principle of
Cie proposed measure, he contended that the reserva-
tions formed as much a part of that principle as the
adini'ssion,, to certain Commissions. This opinion
he felt more strongly, from the manner in which the
measure bad been brought forward, so different from
that which had been first proposed. It had been at ,
first intended to carry the principle Into effect, by
the introdu&ion of certain clauses for that purpose;
but when it was determined on to' carry the mea-
sure farther than was at first proposed, it was found
that a clause in the Mutiny Bill could not Make that'
law general, which had been before limited, and,
therefore a separate Bill had been thought necessary.
The result of all he had stated was, that no proposi-
tion could be clearer than that the firit obje& ;.vas on-
ly- to make the Irish Mt of 1793 the general law of
the Empire. How the misapprehension upon the sub-
je& arose it was not for him to decide ; andeurtainly he
would be the last man in such a case to assert or sus-
pe& that the misapprehension was wilful on either side.'
He had, however, authority to state, that on the 3d of
March a communication had been made to his Ma-
jesty on the subjed, and on the 4th Lord Howick
bad an audience of Majesty at the Queen's Palace.
At this interview, his Majesty had stated his objec-
tions to the measure, hilt he was ready to admit that
the Noble Lord 'had felt Convincedin his own mind,
that nothing had fallen from the august Personage,
during his audience of him, that precluded him from
opening the measure as he had done to Parliament.
When, however, the mjsapprehension that had ta-
ken place had been more explicitly stated, the No-
ble Baron, and the Noble Viscount, and the other
Members of the Cabinet, had considered the sub-
jed in a long consultation, to ascertain whether the
Bill could be modified, so, as to answer the purpose
for which it had been intended ; the result of which
was that they thought it better to drop the Bill alto-
gether, with some. reservations, of which he pro-
posed to take some notice before he should sit down.
In withdrawing the Bill, it appeared that they' had
made two reserves ; first, that they should be at li-
berty to declare their opinions on the general policy
of the measure, as well on the withdrawing the Bill,
as on the even} of the Catholic Petition being pre—
sented. The second reserve was, that as a Govern-
ment, they should be at liberty to bring the subject;
front time.to time, under his Majesty's considera-
tion, by recommending such measures 'as they might.
deem proper to be adopted. Where syly individual
consents to give up any measure, be bad:no doubt,
a right to propose conditions ; but in this case there
weer: two parties, itO,l though the Ministers hal a
right to propose; conditions,. the situation of his Ma-

jestY was not "to be forgotten. Ire shOia not
say Ciat they bad not conscientiously iropused
these reserves; but he asked their Lordships to con'-
i sider owhat would have been the situation of the
King if he had acceded to the propositien ? What
. Would have beet' the effed of such an assent, but to
divide theunity of the,execotive ? Would it:not be
_Jo destroyot he Constitution, one of the wise maxims
sr;(‘l'lliCh. was, that the King could, do. no i.vreng',
.thereby casting a veil over his sacred charaEter
ot have the etii:Et of casting the who e
- odium on his Majesty of resisting the measure, and
of giving the whole popularity to his Ministers ?
W,ahis Majesty to wait until the time should Ivo
rive; when his Ministers might think it convenient
to bring the cpiestiou again forward with mere trio-
pee.t of etCeet ? He was not aware of other al,
lerhative his Maje.s.ty bath, w hen they had relose4
to withdraw their statemeet, or .to make any 01-07
miss respeeling the future, but that Which he had
adopted. The Noble Bar.ol's opinion. had certainly
been known to his Majesty on this subject, but hii
'Majesty could not .know when he might think tit
to bring the matter forward, or whether hi 4
nions
.upon it might...not have derived. additiot4
strength from the decision upon the, question by
the greatest majorities.. that. had .ever beets known
upon any public question. But . when they had
given. up their half measure, it was rather ex-
traordinary that they should reserve the power
of bringing forward the whole question. All
that he had authority to state on the part of hts
Majesty was, that the measure Which had been.
brought in was widely different from that which had
been san6tioned by his Majesty, as first proposed. 7-:
He could distinaly state, with reference to this sub-
jeCt, that until heliad. been called upon, in con.;
funetion with his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord
Eldon), by his .Majesty, he• was ignorant of this
transaction. But having been so called upon by his•
Sovereign, he should have shrunk from his duty
if lie had 'not yielded
.obedience to his commaudsO
He was fully swag of the weight that was to
be derived from the support of all the great interests
that' had given their countenance to the late, Ad-
. ministration ; he
.was sensible of the splendid
talents 'of the Noble . Ba.ron, and of the great ener-
gies that were necessary for the Government in the
present crisis ; but he should haVe shrunk from his
duty if he had not been ready, at ihe call of his Ma-
jesty, to come forward on a question which he
thought necessary for upholding the dignity of the
Crown, for maintaining the interests of the Country,
and for maintaining the public Establishments, which.,
he looked upon as intimately .touneeted with the
prosperity of the Empire.
Earl MOIRA corroborated the statements of his
Noble Friend (Lord Greirville). He thought, as
garbled statements of the subject had gone terth to
the
_Public, the whole transaction ought to be. made
equally public. The Noble Secretary had not made
airy observation upon a .point stated by his Noble
Friend, upon 'which the whole conduct of the then.
Administration was. at issue, namely, the refusal to
give any pledge which would have been. unconstitu-
tional. Was it possible for a Government to go oro,
if the Members of it Were to conceal from his Va-
jesty the measures that might be necessary to the
eircumstances of the day ?• No part of the &noire was
so important to be conciliated as
-Ireland. The Noble
Lord, opposite were aware that they,;beir*houndby
their oaths as Privy Counsellors, could not staid the
circumstances that /had ctriPelled, then') to make the
proposition of this measure to his Majesty. The
Noble Viscount had said, that lie woulcl'not go a
step further than the Irish ilia ; but he would go
many steps further. His idea of toleration was, that
no individual in a country, who was p:edged to suP-.
port and defend it, should be preeluded from the,pos-
session of any advantage which it rrtiglioattrd. The
Noble Secretary had' said,' that they should alter the
tundamental law; but for what purpose was Parlia-
ment assembled every season but to alter the laWr
according to the changes oicircumstances ? The re-
ditndant population •of Ireland could afford one hun-
dred thousand disposable troops more than they had
at present, and why•had they not come forward ?
because the Catholic Gentry and the Catholic Pries-te
had no interest in calling them forth. As to the
Petition of the Catholics, he had only to say, that
if it had been presented, he should not have sup-
ported the Bill. He should himself, perhaps, in
jdtseri
:ea,eiaasti
at( :bgthi .aoidtifidhes it
oo aa
loyal,r
art .ne)yseapNtebattbodlbyedi
euooeff Lordtti
sesmoHi
nlaoaitur:!ieietty:
,bHssuosoturfsme--,
would take it up, • after- the solemn declaration
of .publie- opinion against ,it two years
,since.--
1 be Bill might probably have .prevented the bringing
forward the Petition, the rejeAtod,of which might
have produced much dissatisfaaion. The object of
the Bill was in itself of great utility;and it was bee
sidesio remedy a great incongruity in the existing
law. The dangers were so •pressing upon the
Country at present, that it• was necessary to call for,
the support of all descriptions of subjeCts,
Ira-
land was, most vulnerable, and the moment of a
possible invasion was not the prop&re*t time to call,
upon the Catholics. The next accounts mighk pre-
sent an arteration iii the affairs of Europe, which may
make the dangers to this Country not so remote.-e
This measure would have, called forth, the greatest
mass of the population, and particularly that portion
.which might, under other circumstances, be most
dangerous. He thought, therefore, that the Mi-
nisters who had brought the measure forward were
entitled to the thanks of the country. The Noble:
Earl concluded by declaring his conviaion, that his.
Majesty
.was aapated by die purest and most con-
scientious motives, and laying in his claim for
him Self and colleagues for having acted upon equally
•• -
Conscientious grounds.
Lord MELILLE, in alluding to the, conduct of
Mr. Pitt with respect to the Catholic Question, do.;
scribed that than as the polar star, by whose direct
tion be would always wish to guide his political 001
111010. When that, distinguished man retired frown
office in Itoxi, he had an opinion that the passing of
the Catholic Question was indispensable ; but on
weighing that question more maturely in retirement,
and coupling it with the consideration of the ho-
nourable, unalterable, and • conscientious repor
nonce of his Sovereign, he altered that opinion, and
determined never, again to press his Sovereign 011
a question to which he was so conscientiously aoa,
invincibly averse. This determination was formo
long before Mr. Pitt returned to office, and'was coar
mouicated to his Majesty long live that period,