The Sun.
London, England, 1822-05-08 00:00:00

BANK CHARTER.

Mr. GRENFELL had moved on a recent occasion for co-
pies of all Correspondence between the Government and the
Bank of England. He wished to ask the Hon. Secretary for
the Treasury, whom he saw in his place, whether those papers
were likely soon to be before the House ?
Mr. LUSIIINGTON said, he was unable to give an answer,
and the Hon. Member had better postpone his question until
his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was
in the House.
DEAD EXPENCE.
Mr. HUME said, they had heard a good deal of late about
the 5,000,0001. of dead expence. lie apprehended there would
be no objection to a Motion for a Return to shew how that
amount was made up.—Ordered.
A Message from the Lords announced that their Lordships
had agreed to several private Bills.
PUBLIC DEFAULTERS.

Mr. HUME said, he had on a former occasion moved for a
return of the names of all public defaulters within a certain
number of years, and he wished to know from the Hon. Secre-
tary for the Treasury whether the returns were likely soon to
be upon the table ?
Mr. LUSHINGTON said, that these returns were so exten-
sive in their nature, that it was impossible to say when they
would be ready.
CRUELTY TO ANIMALS.

Mr. R. MARTIN obtained leave to bring in a Bill for pre-
venting Cruelty to Animals.,
Mr. BENNET wished to know when the discussion upon
the Superannuation Bill, which had been put off from day to
day, might be expected ?
Mr. LUSHINUTON said his Majesty's Ministers were not
answerable for the delay, as it was entirely attributable to the
press 'of business before the house.
Mr. BENNET said it was desirable it should come on at an
early day.
Mr. WELLS presented a Petition from the Landowners of
Kent, against Mr. Ricardo's plans. The Petitioners looked
upon these plans with " surprise and dismay."—Laid upon
the table.

illr.• GRENFELL moved for a Return of the several pe-
riods, from 1722 to 1822, at which any renewal or extension of
the Bank Charter took place. He said it would be found
that, in 1800 only, was an application made by the Bank for a
renewal before the former Charter had expired. The reason
assigned for anticipating the expiration of the present Charter
was, that the Bank had agreed to suffer similar establishments
to itself to Ile erected anywhere not within 65 miles of London•
It appeared to him that if this relaxation was any benefit, it
should be also extended to the vicinity of London, and no
qualification should be made. He said, he should oppose the
renewal of the Charter to the Bank.

Mr. LUSHINGTON said, he had no objection to the pro
duction of the Returns.

Mr. MABERLY said, he understood it was intended to
allow the Bank to become bidders for this loan. As this was a
power which they did not possess under their former Charters,
he wished to know from the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
whether, in the extension of their Charter, a clause was intro-
duced, or would be introduced, by which the Bank would be
enabled to go into the market and buy up annuities, or become
bidders for the half-pay Joan ?
Mr. LUSHINGTON said, that no such clause was intro-
duced, or intended to be introduced, in the Bank Charter.

The Returns were then ordered. •
• • . BRITISH CONSULS ABROAD.

Mr. lIUME rose to bring on his motion upon this subject,
of which he had given notice. He stated that his object was to
fix a scale of fees payable to Consuls and Vice-Consuls, as at
present great uncertainty prevailed upon that subject. Eng-
land was almost the only commercial country which had not a
uniform system of charges. America had a uniform system—
so had France. In many places the Consuls were paid by sa-
lary, and had no fees whatever. The charges payable to Bri-

r 7 ;
rnicr . EVFNPENCE
.

tish Consuls varied in every port. -.Whilst an. Ansetitan chid
paid:but two dollats for exhibiting -the ship!sTvers; it Cost an:
.11:tigliish ship from two to six pounds, attthe' game 'Lists
of argeS -shotild be matte out, and de.livered.to the masters of
vessels. He had taken the trouble •to comps khe'eharges at
several ports to which British ships resorted'.; Welte fotind the
greatest discrepancy in them. For a vessel of 150 tons burden
the charges were
At Hanibtirgh - - .£1 .17 6—or 3d per tat.
Rotterdam - • - 516 8
Bordoaux - - • 8 2 6
Naples - - 4 8 3
Leghorn - - .- 3 8 9
•' • Genoa:" - •• - - 315 .0 • • , -
And St. Micharl's a- different sum from 'all these.- He con•
tended that all these_charges•were over-rated, - and that at least
they, ought to Whrought 'to Some unifornrStandard, by which
the British rnerehant. would 'be governed. He had said
.they were over-rated, because he found the allowance to:
British Consuls 'bad- 'greatly increased within some years.—
1n.1792-it was but 10,9001;, now it amounted to 80,0001. He
understOod the subjbce was 'under the consideration 'of the
Board' of Trade. These quesions, however, were some-
times yearS Varlef' -consideration ' before' any decisive step
was taken, and he therefore wished to call the attention of
Ministers more particularly to the subject. He 'had also to
complain that proper' -persons 'were. not chosen as Consuls
abroad. Persons had been' appointed the situation who
were calculated to bring discredit upon the character in
general. 'He hoped also that with the table of fees, there
would be also furnished a return of how long Consuls-Ge-
neral had been absent from their posts. Be knew it was
usual to con Sider t:-.e office of Consul-General as a sine-
cure, and that these Gentlemen thought they had it for life ;
and that if they took possession of their office they had
discharged their duty. Many of these Consuls-General,
if he (Mr. H.) was rightly 'informed, were absent for years
together. The Noble Lord had greatly increased the num-
ber of Consuls in 1815, without alluding any additional fa.-
cilities to trade. The Consuls-General enjoyed large sala-
ries, having scarce any thing to do. There was a Consul-
General in the Netherlands with a ilarge salary, and an9ther at
Paris with a- salary of three thousand ' pounds 4-ytar,
though his office was open but from eleven to one•o"clock
in 'the day. As the charges now stood, a French' vessel
could enter a port and discharge its cargo at one-fourth
less expense than an English one. Upon the whole it ap-
peared to him that the system ought to be reformed, and he
hoped the Noble Lord would turn his attention 40 it. The
Hon. Member concluded by moving, " That an h'umble Ad-
dress be presynted to his Majesty, praying that he would be
graciously pleased to order returns of fees charged 'at the seve-
ral ports by his Majesty's Consuls and Vice-Consuls, from the
year 1792 tb 1821, and the authority by which the same were
demanded."

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did not rise to give any
opposition to the motion. The papers would be produced, but
the Hon. Member was himself aware that the subject was an
important and difficult one. The Board of Trade had for some
time been. considering how far it was practicable to adopt an
uniform scale of fees for all the ports ; but so many difficulties
occurred in the detail of the plan, that as yet they had not come
to any decision. But though this object could net be attained,
yet it was easy for merchants to ascertain by application, either
at the Foreign Office, or at the office of the Board of Trade,
what were the fees to be paid to British Cot, ..ls at each parti-
cular port. Upon the scale of uncertainty, therefore, no great
complaint could be made. It might perhaps be necessary to say,
that though Consuls were responsible at his (the Noble Lord's)
office, yet that as they were in fact commercial agents, they
were entirely under the controul of the Board of Trade. As
to the Authority by which fees were levied, he could answer
the lion. Member that it was under the sanction of the Go-
vernment at home. lie (Lord L.) agreed that it was desirable
to equalise the charges at all the ports, anti that it would be
better to pay the Consuls by salary, and abolish fees altogether.
—(hear.)—But there were great difficulties in the way of
doing this. The amount paid to Consuls already amounted to
30,0001. but what would it be if all the Consuls and Viee.:Con-
suls had salaries ? Therefore, when it was not possible-to siaary
all, it would not be wise to give them only a few ; but he had
some hopes that a plan would yet be adopted to remove a Por-
tion of the Hon. Member's complaint. But it was asked why
merchants residing on the spot were not made Consuls, which
would save a considerable expense ? So they had been ; in a
great many instances the Vice-Consuls were taken front this
class. But he was no friend to extending this system, for it was
calculated to give these individuals unfair advantages in the
trade in which they were engaged. This was the light in which
Government had viewed th subject, and before the end of
the Session a Bill upon • the subject would be brought. into
the House. With regard to the absence of Consuls-General,
he (Lord 1..) had no objection to giVe all the information in
his power ; but he, should say that he did not know a case such
as the lion. Member had stated. The Noble Marquis then
referred to the case of Mr. Chamberlain, Consul-General at
Rio Janeiro, to whom allusion had been made upon a former
night, with a view of rebutting the charges which had been
brought against that Gentleman. He begged the House to
suspend their judgment until the return home of Mr. Cham-
berlain, when it would be shewn that these charges were entirely
without foundation.

Mr. ROBINSON said, this was a question of much deli-
cacy and considerable. difficulty. The paying of Consuls by
salary was certainly the more desirable mode, if the objec-
tions to it in the way of increased expence were not so power-
ful. Much had been said of the high charges of the Consuls
at certain ports, but it was a fact that they were sometimes
without receiving any fees, and they and their families were re.
duced to considerable inconvenience. If the fees varied, it
should be
,also recollected that so did the mode of living at
different ports. The subject had been long under the conside-
ration of the Board of Trade, and he (Mr. 11.) hoped that they
would at length devise some plan for supporting the•Consuis
respectably, witlpu t incurring any additional ex pente.—( Hear !)
Mr. ELLICIS hoped that if any new arrangement were made,
it would not press upon the shipping interest. lie *mild sug-
gest that shippers might be allowed to charge to the owners ot
the goods whatever charges they incurred to the Consuls at the
parts.

Mr. HUME. the►t moved for Returns of what periods Con-
suls-General had been absent from their ports since I£lls. He
considered that the President of the Poard of Trade deserved
great credit for the various reductions he had caused in charges
Affecting the shipping interest. He hoped to see that lion.
Gentleman pursue the same course with regard to the present
subject.'
After an observation from Sir R. WILSON, and an explana-
tion from the Marquis of LONDONDERRY, the motion was
agreed to.