The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-04 00:00:00

TIMBER DUTIES.

Mr. ROBINSON presented a petition from Nova
Scotia, against the scale of duties recommended by the
Select Committee. The Hon. Member expressed his
entire concurrence in the views of the petitioners. The
proposed alteration, in his opinion, would inflict serious in-
jury on the shipping interests, without conferring the
slightest benefit on the public. On the contrary, he was
convinced that the consumer would be a loser, instead of a
gainer, by it. As a commercial man, he thought the public had
a right to know what the intentions of Government were.
He thought it extremely hard that the Government were
not able to answer the question put to them the other night,
whether or not they intended to bring forward any
question on the subject in the course of the present
Session ? In his opinion the question yielded to
none in importance, not even to that of agriculture itself.
—(Cries of " Hear.") He thought, therefore, it ought
to be brought forward at an early period of the Ses-
sion, and not at a period when there would be but a thin
attendance of Members. He trusted when the question was
brought forward an opportunity would be given for its
due consideration, and that Members would not allow
their votes upon a question which affected the best interests
of the country and the Colonies, to be swayed by any party
feeling. He trusted they would not read the evidence of the
Committee partially, and he was convinced that no impar-
tial man who read that evidence carefully could brine- his
mind to consider that any alteration of the timber duties
was necessary. In conclusion lie could not but call to the
attention of the House the great length of time that had
elapsed between the making of the Report of the Select
Committee on the Timber Duties, and its being presented
to that House.
Mr. ROEBUCK deprecated discussion upon the pre-
sentation of petitions. There was, he believed, no doubt
existing as to the intentions of his Majesty's Government—
that they were about to follow the recommendation of the
Committee. As to the statement of the Hon. Member
that the Colonies would be affected by the measure, he
represented one of the greatest Colonies, and they had
authorised him to state they wished the Timber Duties
done away with. In fact the whole of the Colonies were
anxious to do away with the duties on timber.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG thought that the Honourable
Member for Bath was the last man to complain of discus-
sion upon petitions. The other night he had put a ques-
tion to the Secretary of State, whether or not negocia-
tions were in progress on the subject of the Timber
duties ? To that h had not received any direct reply.
If, therefore, Ministers did not take this question into con-
sideration, they must not be surprised at petitions being con-
tinually presented on the subject. For his own part, he
should always avail himself of every opportunity of bring-
ing the question before the House.
Lord S A NDON would not follow the Hon. Member
for Bath, in stating that the whole of the Colonies were of
opinion that the timber duties should be repealed.—(Hear,
hear.) He had no doubt that the Hon. and Learned
Member was correct in stating, that he had the authority
of the Lower House of Assembly to state that they were
favourable to the repeal of the duties ; but he could not,
from all the information be received, agree with him in stat-
ing that all the Colonies were favourable to that measure.
He knew perfectly well that the majority of the Lower
House of Assembly, consisting of the old inhabitants, did
not consider that they were interested in any very great de-
gree in the timber trade ; but they all knew perfectly well
that a great proportion of the landed proprietors of the
newer settlements, where the timber was found, and the whole
mercantile interest of Montreal and Quebec, were most
earnestly interested in the continuance of the present
duties.—(Hear, hear.) The petition was then laid on
the table.
SPIRIT LICENSES.

Captain PECHELL presented four petitions from dif-
ferent towns and villages in Sussex, in favour of the repeal
of the additional duty upon spirit licenses. He would add,
that the petitioners were a most oppressed class of their
fellow-subjects ;no sooner was the house-tax taken off, than
an additional duty was put upon spirit licenses, more than
equal to the tax that had been taken off.
Mr. JERVIS presented a petition from the City of
Chester to the same effect.
LAND TAX. _

Captain PECHELEI;;Sented a petition from a parish
in Sussex, praying to be relieved from the land tax.
MR. BUCKINGHAM'S CLAIMS.
Mr. WILKS presented a petition from Boston, signed
by the Mayor, by several magistrates, and by the principal
merchants and inhabitants of that town, in favour of Mr.
Buckingham's claims. He had several other petitions to
the same effect, one from Preston, signed by several thou-
sand inhabitants, and another from Bolton. With these
petitions he would take the liberty to state, that at Boston,
and throughout the country, there was very great dissatis-
faction expressed at the manner in which Mr. Bucking-
ham's claims had been treated by that House, and indeed
there was a general sympathy expressed throughout the
country in his favour. Undoubtedly the matter would not be
allowed to rest in its present situation. He hoped some
Hon. Member would be prepared to refer the report of the
Select Committee on the subject to the consideration of
the House, and that some deliberate determination would
be come to thereupon.
DISSENTERS' GRIEVANCES.

Mr. WILKS then presented a petition from Tam-
worth, signed by persons of all religious denominations—
not only by Independents, Presbyterians, and Unitarians,
but by the clergymen of the Catholic chapel in fay our of
religious liberty, and of the redress of grievances of the Dis-
senters.

CHURCH RATES.
Mr. WILKS presented a petition from Wareham, pra
ing for a repeal of Church rates.

NEW WRIT.
Mr. OSWALD moved for a new writ for Paisley, in
the room of Mr. Spiers, who since his election had accepted
the office of Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds.

CONSTABULARY BILL—IRELAND.
Mr. STEWART brought up the report of the Com-
mittee on the Irish Constabulary Bill.
Sir R. BATESON seeing the Noble Lord, the Secre-
tary for Ireland, in his place, wished to ask a question re-
lating to the statement made by him (Sir R. Rateson)
on a former night, when this Bill was before the House.
Hon. Members were aware that he made an assertion,
to the effect that an officer in the police had communicated
to him a circumstance which showed the wish of the Go-
vernment to make the police force in Ireland a political
body. But he refused, when taunted by Gentlemen oppo-
site to state the name of his informant—(Hear)—and he
now wished to know if what he had heard from Ireland was
true—namely, that circular letters had been addressed ;by
Government to every police officer in Ulster, requiring to
know whether any of them communicated with him (Sir
R. Bateson) on the subject.
Lord MORPETH could tell the Hon. Baronet that
no such circular letters were, so far as he knew, addressed
to the police officers. With respect to the charge brought on
a former evening against Sir F. Stovin, he could say that he
had been applied to, and Government had received such an
insinuations
against as would enable them fully to refute the
against his conduct. He was convinced that there existed
no foundation whatever for the Hon. Baronet's charges.
He would take another opportunity of stating fully to the
House what he considered a complete vindication of Sir
Frederick Stovin's conduct.
Sir ROBERT BATESON said there was no need for

---
Government to go to- expense in sending those circular
letters.—(Hear, bear.) He was willing to state the name
of the gentleman upon whose authority he blade the
assertion, and was on the night be made it ready to do o.
but from the ironical cheers with which he was assL:ilsea
from the other side. His informant was Mr. Somerset
Currie, and he hoped this person would not have to contend
with the vengeance of the Irish Government, or of the party
which directed their entire proceedings.—(Cries of " Oh,
oh !" from the Ministerial side of the House.)
Lord MORPETH would not notice the observation of
the Hon. Baronet respecting the vengeance of the
Irish
Government. All he should say was that when tile proper
time arrived he could show that his charges agait:st Sir

Frederick Stovin were altogether unfounded.
Mr. 11. GRATTAN—If the Hon. Baronet perseveres;
in this course, I shall feel it my duty—(Loud cries of
Or'
der, order !" (luring which Mr. Grattan resumed his seat.
Sir ROBERT PEEL wished to ask if the statement
made when the Constabulary Bill was last before the House,
respecting the appointment of Colonel Shaw Kennedy, was
borne out fully in fact, and whether or not the offer made
by Government to that officer had been accepted by bile ?
Lord MORPETH said it had.
CHURCH RATES (ENGLAND.)
Sir R. PEEL wished to know when Government
in-
tended to introduce a measure on the subject of Church-.
rates, which at present was the cause of much dissatisfaction.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said it was not the intention
to bring in the Bill till after the Easter recess.
Sir ROBERT PEEL asked, would the measure be first
brought into that House
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, as we understood, answered
in the affirmative.
THE DORCHESTER LABOURERS.
Mr. ROEBUCK begged to ask the Hon. Member for
Finsbury, whether he intended to renew his motion relative
to a remission of the sentence passed on the Dorchester
labourers.

Mr. `'VALLEY would be glad to have a few days to
consider what course he should adopt.—(Hear, hear.)
In the course of the discussion upon that subject{
the Noble Lord (John Russell), the Secretary °-
State for the Home Department, had stated that the
question was likely to be satisfactorily set at rest ; and frog'
the amicable feeling that then existed he did not think that
it would be necessary to renew his motion. He (Mr. W.)
trusted that the course which the Government would adopt
on this question would render it unnecessary for him to re-
new his motion.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was able to say that since the,
discussion that had taken place in that House, he hat'
thought it his duty to recommend to his Majesty that two
of the Dorchester labourers should have a part of then;
sentence commuted. He had already stated that four out 01
the six had been permitted to return at the end of twe
years, which would terminate in October of the present
year ; and he had felt it his duty to recommend to his M3L:
jesty that the remaining two should return at the end of
three years, which his Majesty had been pleased to direct,'
He did not think that anything had since occurred which
would induce him to recommend a further remission of the
sentence which had been passed upon these persons.
,HAND-LOOM WEAVERS.
Mr. J. MAXWELL begged permission to postpone
the motion of which he had given notice for calling the
attention of the House to the condition of the hand-loon'
weavers.

POOR RATE AND HIGHWAY RATE.
Mr. POULETT SCROPE then rose to move for leave
to bring in a Bill to provide for the-levy of the Poor rate
and Highway rate in all the parishes of England and
Wales upon a uniform system of valuation and assessment'
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought the Bill likely to be
productive of good effects, and he should therefore give it
sanction. At the same time, however, he must say, tlta
difficulties existed as to making estimates of the adequate
value of property. He trusted the Bill would meet ~Kith
the sanction of the House.
Sir R. PEEL said that it was a matter of indifference.;
as to parochial assessments, whether the premises were rata'
upon 3-sths or 4-sths of the value, or upon the full value'
But when the several parishes came to be rated to the
county, then it was clearly a great injustice that one parisil
should be rated at the full value, while another was rate
only at 3-sths or 4-sths of the value. He thought t,
better rule would be, to require all the parishes to be rate
at the full value. Fie wished to ask the Noble Lord vibee:
ther any uniform system of rating had been adopted un'
the Parliamentary Reform Bill ?
Lord J. RUSSELL replied, that whenever the question
had been referred to the Law Officers of the Crown, thelia
had always given it as their opinion that the parties shct,
be rated to the full amount as required by the Act•
was aware that a different construction had been put on Pt;
the Act, from which great inconvenience h&I arise tl
occupyingcrnet-et aboi
rfhousecl
j toe.
alv
value.oyretahr 3boe/c.a
Thisau s year,
was eatrh,ewapsariosohlY;:as;
o n personlyedra
taet
d tahte
a
highly ob"-
tionable. He thought that the rate should be eclaiva`itent
to the real value. as
Mr. BAINES observed that there could be no ddlubt
to the necessity of an uniform system of rating in count'
being established. At present the greatest inequality 30 t
rate of assessment existed.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
GAOL .
Lord JOHN RUSSELLACTS postponed his motion for
Select Committee on Gaol Acts.
BILL FOR COUNTY BOARDS—IRELAND.
Sir R. MUSGRAVE said it was his intention to nods
for leave to bring in a Bill for establishing county boa
in Ireland. His principal object in doing so was to affclds
increased employment for able-bodied labourers.
agreed with other Hon. Members in thinking that
ployment for able-bodied poor was full as necessary as ro„'
lief for the hplpless poor, and therefore he hoped to :te
duce the measure now before the House. It was a seP•ar-of
measure, for men best acquainted with Ireland were be
opinion that the question of employment ought to toP
treated separately. He proposed, in the first instance,
substitute county boards for grand juries for local taxatil;
In doing so, it was not his intention to deprive
of property of that controul which they ought to exereist
over county taxation. Under this Bill men of proper
would form the county board. Similar local institution
had for a long period existed in Holland and in °tit
countries, and the best Dutch writers had 'attributed tPt
wealth of Holland principally to these institutions. 1511,0
he was anxious to apply the principle of representation
these bodies, and public opinion was decidedly favourable c,
such a change. From long experience he was well.a3„c;
quainted with the operation of the grand jury laws. Yit,
gentler-oe,"
still he would not have ventured to undertake the diffieu
task resulting from the present motion if he had not been ea
.se
bled to take advantage of the labours of two friends of ig't
who brought to the subject great legal knowledge and gre4
experience in the affairs of Ireland. He alluded to 'VII
George Harrison, of Lincoln's Inn, and to a relative.°
his own, by whom this Bill had been drawn up. The Pr";
cipal clauses had been printed and distributed some Yei°
since, and every useful suggestion was respectfully attends'
to. After all means had been adopted in order to roll,
the measure unobjectionable, the Bill had been oornPlateby
and last session had been read a first time and printed,
not
order of the House. This course of proceeding was 0
only calculated to produce an useful measure, but was al •
respectful as regarded that House. The power of a°
'lilting the grand jury, as exercised by the high sheriff,
most objectionable. It was an anomaly at variance iaia
the first principles of the British constitution, ge
which
not allow that any individual should exercise such a degrpal
of control over public taxation. There is, indeed, an el3P;ot
to a petty jury from the decision of the grand jury; it,
the party traversing must employ counsel, agent, and vvre,
nesses, at the assizes, and cannot, even if he succeed, p
cover any part of the expense which he thus incurs., the
various, too, are the views taken by petty juries of
taip
utility of public works, that this tribunal is very noccrost•
and unsatisfactory. To give the high sheriff, in the
instance, the unjustifiable power of nomination, and ;to'
to endeavour to correct this evil by an appeal to a Pbjjo
jury, appeared to be a very unwise administration of 01,..01
works. The Bill proposed, then, that the entire power
duty of taxation for loeal public purposes, be vested
a'ete,
elusively in a county board, to be elected by the roily,
payers. The rate-payers are to meet in each bnara of
in order to elect a certain number of persons. 'igh'
the entire number so elected in all the baronies, the 11 is
sheriff is to select the county board. The county boa
silt'
to consist of not more than sixty nor less than thirty 1110
hers ; and is to continue in office for twelve months,„atbio
the succeeding board is appointed. The members 01 first
body are to possess a certain qualification. At their f 54r
meeting the county board is to appoint a committee fop..
perintendence, for superintending all public works and oin''
blishments within the county. The members of this cecial
mittee are to sit and vote with the magistrates at sP, ate
sessions, and their powers and duties in other respect; sit
defined by this Bill. At present, certain rate-PaYerovi'
t,
and vote with the magistrates at sessions, by which
the
sion it was evidently intended to establish a check 0-nr
00'
decision of the grand jury. But grand juries have °rate
strued the law, that they now often actually select the To
payers from amongst their own friends and tenattta. rate
substitute the committee of superintendence for the.sa The
payers, will, I trust, appear to be an improvement'
ointed
chairman of the county board is to be an officer aPPorter
by Government. In Ireland the chairman of the gd the
o
sessions is a barrister, nominated by the Crown, It
greatest public benefit has resulted from this reguleu_oblic
is necessary, on every account, but particularly .l v„aotY
works are to be extended, that the chairman of the that
board should, by his. legal knowledge, be able to gn as the
body in the discharge of their duty. The foreman'.a_ aoi
e statutes
regard is now administered, is too often appointed wet
regard to his being qualified by knowledge of th