The Sun.
London, England, 1838-03-02 00:00:00

SLAVERY.

,he grounds stated .)y the Noble Lord.
VENTILATION OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. GREENWOOD presented a petition, from whence
we could not learn, against the system of Negro Apprenticeship.
THE BALLOT.

Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petition from a parish in
Carmarthen in favour of the Ballot. . . .

Sir W. BR ABA ZON presented several similar petitions
from places in Ireland, of which we could not collect the names.
Mr. GROTE moved for a number of returns connected
with bankruptcy and vagrancy.
Mr. PARROTT gave notice that on the 15th of March, he
would call the attention of tho House to the obstructions which
existed to the voluntary commutation of tithes in England and
Wales, with a view to providing a remedy.
Mr. BETHELL presented a petition, prayir,g for the total
abolition of the Negro Apprenticeship.
Sir C. STYLE presented four petitions from places in
Donegal, praying for the total abolition of tithes, not only in
name hut in nature—Municipal Reform for Ireland—the Vote
by Ballot—and Triennial Parliaments.
Mr. COLLIER presented a petition from Plymouth, mast
numerottsly and respectably signed, for the entire abolition of
slavery.
Mr. FRE SHFIELD presented a petition from the
proctors, attorneys, and solicitors of London, for cheap and
expeditious communication by a reduction of postage.
Mr. MACKINNON presented a petition from Learning-
ton, praying that the Municipal Boundaries Bill might not be
extended to that place.
POOR-LAWS (IRELAND).
Major AGLIONBY postponed his motion, relative to in-
structions to the Poor-law Committee, from Tuesday the tiLh,
until Thursday the 15th.
IRISH POOR LAWS. _ _

Mr. Sergeant BALL presented a petition from Clonmel,
pra3ing for certain amendments in the Irish Poor-law Bill
now before the House.

NEGRO EMANCIPATION.

Sir C. GREY presented a petition from Tynemouth, praying
that the negro apprentices in the British Colonies may be un-
conditionally emancipated before August, 1838.
Colonel SEALE presented a petition from some place in
Norfolk, to the same effect.
IRISH TITHES.
143 r. E. ROCHE presented a petition from Cork (county)
for the abolition of Tithes in Ireland.
MUNICIPAL BOUNDARIES BILL.

An Hon. MEMBER presented a petition front the Corpora-
tion of Saltash in favour of the Municipal Boundaries Bill.
IRISH POOR-LAW BILL.

Petitions against the Poor-law Bill were presented by Mr.
FRP:N en from the Sheriff and Grand Jury of Roscommon;
by Mr. O'CONNELL, from Dublin ; and Mr. D. BROWN, from
Mayo.
Mr. M. ATTWOOD presented a petition in favour of the
repeal of the duty on the Marine Insurances.
Mr. LABOUCHERE presented a petition from the
borough of Taunton praying for the abolition of Negro Ap-
Prenticesbip.
Mr. R. STUART presented a petition from Edinburgh in
favour of the repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. BAINES presented a petition from Halstead, to the
Ilaine effect.
Mr. O'CONNELL prevented several petitions in favour
of the Ballot, Corporate Reform, and tl e total abolition of
Tithes ; also a petition from the merchants and traders of
Cork, complaining of the present extravagant rate of postage,
and suggesting that if a reduction took place, the revenue
woulc+ be thereby materially benefited; also a petition from
the Corporate Officers of Dublin, praying for compensation
in the event of the Irish Municipal Reform Bill passing.

IPSWICH COMMITTEE.
Mr. AG LIONBY stated, that in consequence of the nil-
butes of the evidence taken before the Ipswich Committee
having been moved for, he would not proceed with the motion
of which he had given notice until the evidence had been at
least a week or ten days in the hands of Members. He gave
notice that to-morrow he would move its further postponement.
EDUCATION.

Mr. WYSE gave notice that he should to morrow move
an Address to her Majesty, that she would be graciously pleased
to appoint a Board of Education in England. The Ho-
nourable Member also gave notice that he should to-morrow
move for certain returns relative to Education in Ireland.

„.._.
DURHAM ELECTION COMMITTEE.
The Clerk of the Committees laid on the table the revised
list of Members balloted for on the Durham Election Com-
Mittee, who came to the table and were sworn. They were
as follows :--The Hon. Sir G. EL Rose, John Collier, T. P.
Maunsell, Lord Ossulston, T. W. C. Master, Sir 11. Verney,
N. Ball, li. Chester, Lord J. Stuart, R. G. Townley, J. 11.
Hawkins.
The dropped orders of yesterday were then disposed of.
IRISH POOR LAW.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved the postponement of the
Order of the Day for the Committee on the Irish Poor Relief
13i11 till to-morrow, and gave notice that he would move the
postponement of the estimat's to Monday.
THE O'CONNELL BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. HUME rose to move that the speech of Mr. O'Con-
nell, read at the table yesterd;,y, should be printed with the
votes, and inserted in the journals of the House. If that
could not be done, he would move that the whole proceedings
be expunged.
After an explanation with the SPEAKER, which was not
clearly understood in the gallery, Mr. Hume gave notice
that lie would make a motion to this effect on Tuesday next.
Mr. O'CONNELL, in conscuence of what was at that
moment taking place in another House, should postpone
to this day week his motion fixed for Tuesday forr-a Corn_
mitten on Oaths.

ST. DAVID'S DAY.
Mr. WYNN appealed to the Hon. and Learned Member's
sympathy with national recollections, and requested that in
consideration of the festival which his (Mr. W.'s) countrymen
have this day to celebrate, Mr. O'Connell would postpone
the motion of which he had given notice for this evening
for a Committee to inquire respecting the trial of election
petitions.—(Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said he had so much respect for na-
tural attachments and associations, that he readily acceded to
the Right lion. Gentleman's request, and postponed his mo-
to Wednesday next (we believe).
THE SLAVE TRADE.
lie Captain PEC HEL L, in moving for a return of all slave yes-
ls captured by her Majesty's ships since the Ist of February,
1836, distinguishing the nation of such slave vessel, and whether
captured having slaves onboard, or under the equipment article,
to the latest date for which the same can be rrepared, vindi-
cated the officers of her Majesty's Navy from the imputations
which had been cast upon them in the powerful speeches of a
Noble and Learned Lord in another place.—( Haar.) If
the Noble and Learned Lord had used the words attributed to
him, he ( Captain P.) hoped he would either retract or qualify
them. How dare any man say that the officers of her Majesty's
navy were fond of blood-money ? How dare any man utter
Such a falsehood ? The Hon. and Gallant Member concluded
by moving for the Returns.
Mr. GORING seconded the motion. He denied that there
Ras any foundation for the charges made against her Ma-
jesty's naval officers. On the contrary, very many ships had
been seized without any slaves on board, and the cap-
tains suffered considerable loss in consequence. At the same
time he was convinced that tine slave trade would never be put
down until it was Made piracy, and every person detected in it
should be banged at the yard-arm.--( Hear.)
Admiral CODRINGTON expressed his sorrow that the
Noble and Learned Lord alluded to should have so far lost
himself as to make such a charge. That Noble Lord had
been accused of indulging in indiscriminate vituperation—in
this case he might truly be accused of throwing most unjust and
indiscriminate vituperation upon the officers of the Navy.—
(Hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord had considered the situa-
tion of the officers of the Navy, he would see that they had
nothing to depend on but their honour.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. CHARLES WOOD was happy, to bear testimony to
what had been said of the officers of the Navy, and he believed
that there was no one circumstance on record which could give
the slightest pretence for so unwarranted and unfounded
an assertion as had been made in another place.—(Cheers.)
The papers moved for, which he should have great pleasure
211 producing, would show that the officers against whom the
,- charges were made had in every respect done their duty` A
Bill would shortly be brought before the House which world
snake it equally valuable as a prize to officers of the navy i
capture slave vessels under either of the existing Acts of Par-
liament.

After a few words from Admiral ADAM, Sir T. TROT:-
LIRIDUE, and Captain PICIIELL in reply, the motion was
agreed to.

POOR-LAW UNIONS.
Mr. BLACKSTONE moved for a return of the number

of Union workhouses in England and \Yaks used for the
reception of parochial poor since the passing of the New
Poor-law Bill, specifying the parishes in which they arc se-
verally situate, and the number of parochial poor received
into each ; and also tho return of deaths which have taken
place in each of such houses, specifying their ages and the
causes of•their decease, but on the suggestion of Lord John

Russell consented to the postponement of the motion until
Monday next.
Mr. G. PALMER moved fora copy of a letter dated Jan.
Gth, 1838, addressed to each Assistant Commissioner under
the Poor-law Amendment Act by order of the Board, by Mr.
E. Chadwick, Secretary; with copies of the two enclosures

contained therein propo;ed to be sent to all the Guardians or
Boards of Guardians of the Poor.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL objected to the form of the re-
turn ; and, upon prirciple, as a bad precedent, he also was op-
posed to the motion. He looked upon the paper in question
as a consultation to be held amongst the Commissioners and
Assistant Commissioners, and ought not to be produced until
it had been duly and fully considered.
Mr. G. PALMER consented to withdraw his motion on

Sir F. TRENCH had received a communication from a
gentleman named Gyc. proposing a new mode of lighting the
[louse, by a union of hydrogen and oxygen gases ; but, ac-
cording to the view which he ( Sir F. Trench) took of Mr.
Gye's plan, he felt it his duty to communicate to that gen-
tleman that, although he ( Sir F. Trench) was no philosopher,
his opinion was that unless a person was constantly on the
watch to prevent amidents the consequences most likely
would be that the Speaker and that most respectable House
would be blown up.—( Laughter.) He would now state to
the House the plan which he himself meant to propose, and
which, he assured the House, would not cost more than be-
tween 61. and 101. to make the experiment of. At present
the floor.of the House was perforated with innumerable holes,
over which was a lair matting, through which a mass of im-
Flpable powder vas carried up to the roof, which was ex-
tremely injurious to the health of Hon. Members, and
indeed had pro'ed so to two of the strongest Members
of the House, namely—the Hon. Member for Kilkenny and
the Hon. Member for Finsbury.—( A laugh.) The Hon.
Member for Lynington (Col. Mackinnon) had also com-
plained that he hod suffered from the same cause. To remedy
the existing evil se proposed that the side lustres should be
raised some feet, to the same height with the end lustres, and
that seventy candles more than at present should be added.
He proposed also tat an oilcloth should be placed over the
boles at present in be floor, and the hair-matting removed, and
that holes should be bored over the heads of the Members

where they sat, so hat a pure air might be admitted instead of
the foul air through the floor.
Mr. HUME askal if the effect of a strong current of air
at the backs of Hm. Members, would not be extremely dis-
agreeable ?
Sir F. TRENCH said that it would net be cold air. He
proposed to remose the matting from the floor of the House
also, in order to l,t the air escape more freely.
Sir G. STRICKL AND did not thick that the Hon. and
Gallant Membe: hid stated sufficient grounds to warrant the

r‘doption of his plan.—( Hear. ) His- opinion was that Dr.
Reid's operation hr.d been in a very great degree, if not wholly,
successful, and the present proposition was not called for.—
( Hear, hear.)
Mr. GO ULBURN disapproved of anything being adopted
which had a tendemy to interfere with Dr. Reid's plan of
ventilation.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. PRYME saic that the present manner of lighting the
House was very disavaeable to Members sitting in the galle-
ries of the House.

Mr. WARBURTON hoped the House would persevere in
.he present system of ventilating the House.—(Hear.)
After a few words from Mr. G. PA LAIER,

Mr. WA KL E Y sal, with respect to the proposition of the
Hon. and Gallant Member relative to lighting the House, it
might be en improvanent, perhaps, upon the present system ;
but if the present cloth rere to be removed from the floor of
the House, and an oilcloth put down in its place, great in-
convenience would Le the consequence, for all the arrange-
ments respecting sotnd•in that House had been made in refe-
rence to that cloth,—( Hear, hear.) Ho had prescribed very
frequently upon theme subjects, and had, in fact, commenced
his prescriptions very early in the present session—(A laugh)
—but they had, on that occasion, been so very positively re-
jected by the Noble Lord the flume Secretary—( Laughter)
—and by 656 other ungrateful patients, that he did not feel
disposed to offer any on the present occasion.
Lord J. RUSSELL suggested that the plan of the Hon.
and Gallant Gehtlernan should be referred by him to the Chief
Commissioner of Woods and Forests.

Sir F. TRENCH would prepare a plan, and lay it before
Lord Duncannon.
The discussion then ended.
QUARTER SESSIONS.
__

Lord J. RUSSELL then rose to bring under the conside-
ration of the House a very important, or rather part of a
very important question, namely, the administration of justice at
Quarter Sessions, and in County Courts.—( Hear, hear. )
A great change in the feelings of this country regarding capi-
tal punishments had taken place since the speech which was
made many years ago upon the subject, by a person of very
great eminence, the late Lord Chief Justice Ellenborough, a
man of high legal authority as well as of unsuspected inte-
grity in the administration of justice in the Court over
which he presided. It was well known that Lord Ellenbo-
rough opposed Sir Samuel Rornilly's Bills respecting the al-
teration of the criminal law of this country. One of those Bills
rclaetd to stealing five shillings from a shop, the punishment fcr
which crime was at that time capital ; and Lord okt:borough,
when the Bill to repeal the capital punishment came before
the House of Lords expressed the following opinion upon. it :
[The Noble Lord here proceeded, at some length, to read from
a volume of " Hansard's Dehatcs" the opinions expressed on

. .
this point by Lord Ellenhorough, on the occasion referred to.
The substance of Lord Ellenborough's objections to the re-
peal of the capital penalty was, that if they commenced this
career of abrogations they would be forced to advance to the
repeal of the capital penalty in other cases, until at length all
the fences and safeguards of property would be broken down,
and the law would no longer afford that protection and secu-
rity which it was their boast that it did them. " If," said
the Noble and Learned Lord, "you do away this year with
the penalty of death for stealing in a shop next year you will
be askel to do away with the penalty of death for stealing in
a dwelling-house. You will then have an end to that pro-
tection of property, which, whilst it gives its safeguard to the
rich, is of still more importance to the poor man, who is often
forced to leave his home without the ability to leave any one
behind to protect it. The poor man will then take that secu-
rity which enables him to go cheerfully to his daily toil, con-
scious that his property and his house are safe from interrup-
tion, under the protection which this law affords him." The
Noble and Learned Lord had foretold that the worst conse-
quences would follow from this mitigation of the law. But,
though even greater ameliorations had since been effected, all
their experience proved that the results had been most satis-

factory and beneficial.l Such were the sentiments delivered
a few years ago, by a man of undoubted learning and autho-
rity in the law of the land; and he only quoted that autho-
rity, for the purpose of showing the great changes of opinion
which had taken place upon the subject of repealing capital
punishments since that period.—( Hear, hear.) During the
past year, not only had this fancied security been taken away,
but it had been enacted that even in cases of burglary at night,
where no personal injury or violence was attempted to be c'im-
mitted, the punishment of death should no longer be retained.
The fact was, that. tile number of persons convicted had so
much changed during the last few years that, whilst in the
year 1831 there fifty capital punishments inflicted, and thirty-
four in 1835, in the last year there were only eight. This
number being so much lower than that of any preceding year,
was of itself a great proof of what the effects of the change of
the law upon the subject of capital punishments had keen. The
Noble Lord then read a comparative statement of the number
of executions which had taken place since 1831 with ref•.•rence
to the amount of the population, and contended that the num-
ber and gravity of offences must have been greatly altered by
the Bill of last year, and said that there was at present no
certain rule by which cases to be tried at Quarter Sessions
were to be distinguished from cases to be tried at the Assizes
There had been some clauses relating to this point struck out
of the Criminal Law Bills by the House of Lords, %slat a
view, however, that they should be hereafter considered, and
he certainly thought that some enactment should take place
relating to those cases to be tried by the Judges, and those
which were to come before the Quarter Sessions.—( Hear.)
That distinction now he proposed to make.—(Hear, hear. )
There had been a distinction made upon this subject with re-
ference to the Central Criminal Court Act ; but that Court

sat every month, and as often almost as the Magistrates them-
selves; and that there was no reason whatever why cases should
nut be tried there which would in ether instaxces be tried by
the Judges. Ile would not on the present occasion state the
particulars of the kind of offences to which he intended his
Bills to apply ; but there was one circumstance which showed
the necessity existing for the enactment of some measure upon
the subject, which was the great number of cases at present
tried at Quarter Sessions.—( Hear, bear, hear.) The Noble
Lord then read a statement of the numbers of the cases tried
in the last year at different Courts in the country, at the Cen-
tral Criminal Court, and at the County Court of Sessions,
and said that it was obvious that Courts which tried a greater
number of criminals than the Courts of Assize ought as soon
as possible to come under the consideration of Parliament. It
was impossible for chairmen at Quarter Sessions to allow points
of law to be raised by the Counsel, which might be in a great
degree irrelevant to the question before them without calmly
setting right the argument of Counsel in that respect ; and
"the necessity was thereby imposed upon these chairmen of
h aving
a great—a very general—knowledge of the law—
( Hear, hear)—without which such inconvenience could not be
obviated. There was, too, another consideration to which be
wished to draw the attention of the House—which was, the
very long imprisonment which criminals in this country suf-
fered before they were brought to trial.—( Hear, hear.)
From statements he had had made out he found that, taking
the average number of days in prison which criminals suffored
in this country, it WCs such, that they underwent four days'
imprisonment before trial for every five after trial, the ave-
rage being forty-six days, or about six weeks.—( Hear, hear.)
It appeared, then, to be necessary to improve these Courts
of Quarter Sessions, as it was by no means necessary that so
many important cases should be brought before them, or that
such long imprisonment before trial shonld be allowed to be
undergone without some attempt being made by Parliament
to put an end to such a system. —( Cheers.) His opinion was
that they ought to enact a law that these Courts of Quarter
Session should be held every six weeks, instead of every three

months—( Hear, hear)—and that in every county eight of
them, as well as two assizes, should be held in the course of
the year.—( Hear, hear.) But he certainly did not think that
the country could expect that the additional burthen to be
imposed on these Courts, considering the importance of the
trials and the numbers of the persons to be tried, should be
exercised by gentlemen having no professional knowledge of
tile law.--( Hear, hear.) He did not by this mean to
.say
that the Magistrates of the country had shown incompetency
with respect to the law, and should not: make any statements
to attempt to prove any such case—( Hear, hear, hear)_
but it was for the public convenience that there should be
persons of sound legal education at the head of these
Courts.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He did not propose to intro-
duce this part of the question without first having the assent
of the Magistracy to it ; and, upon their application
to him, he should then propose that a barrister of
von years' standing should be appointed to preside
over each Court of Quarter Sessions.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
He bad bad several consultations with the Lord Chan-
cellor and the Attorney-General upon this point, and bad
their concurrence in his views to rely upon. When the pre-
sent Lord Spencer was in that House there had been proposed
for its adoption a measure for the establishment of County
Courts, and it was proposed, at the same time, that questions
of debt, of the amount of 101., should come before them. That
Bill never passed into a law ; but in 1837 a measure was in-
troduced by Sir Robert Peel, founded on the general prin-
ciples suggested for the improvement of these Courts, and
which gave them the power of summoning five persons as
jurors. But the difference between the measure of Lord
Althorp and that of Sir R. Peel related to the question of who
were to be the Judges to preside in these Courts. Lord Al-
thorp proposed that thirty Judges should be named for each
county, while Sir Robert Peel thought that the Sheriffs
should have the power of appointing a deputy or assessor
to act as the Judge. Now it appeared to him that there
was much in the principle of both those measures which
might be adopted; and they might combine other things
with them so as to render them store efficient.—( Hear, hear.)

_ _ •
It should not be forgotten that a sheriff, appointed every year,
could not give a person a tenure of office for life, or during
good behaviour—( Hear, hear)—and it would certainly be the
bsst plan that the person to preside in these Courts should. be
appointed for life, or during good behaviour_-( Hear, hear)—
as the Commissioners on county rates had advised in 1834, who
recommended that each county should be divided into dis-

tricts, and that the Courts should sit in the most important
town in them. He proposed that this Judge should sit in each
capital town of a county every six weeks, and he thought
such a plan would very much diminish the expenses of the
county.—( Hear, hear.) The Lord Chancellor had another
measure to introduce into the House of Lords, with refer-
ence to an Act of the third and fourth of Wm. IV., c. 42,

relating to issues tried before the Sheriff, and he proposed
that, if Courts of this kind were established, the Courts of
Westminster Hall should have the power of sending cases of
debt of bOl. to be tried by the M.—( Hear, hear.) Wherever
small counties joined it was his opinion that the same Court
should have jurisdiction over both of them. With respect to
the fees, too, of these Courts, they would be such as to defray
a great part of the expences of the Judges presiding over
them, and the county would pay out of the rates a certain sum
for such purpose. He did not think that, by these Courts, any
additional hurthen would be imposed upon the country at large,
for, by a calculation he had made of the expenses occasioned by
the long imprisonment which criminals suffered before trial, it
appeared that an expense of not less than 20,0001. or 30,0001.
v, as aunt:lily incurred by the country, and which was paid, be
it remembered, net for the due execution, hut absolutely for
the delay of justice.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that an Act
of this sort would very much improve the law of the country,
and not entail additional expenses upon it.—( Hear, hear.)
There were many minor subjects connected with this question
into which he would not enter on that occasion. The Noble
Lord then concluded a fox further observations by moving for
leave to bring in a Bill " for the better administration of jus-
tice in England and Wales."
Mr. PLUMPTRE thought that the question of the ap-
pointment of a paid barrister as presiding Judge over these
C.Jurts required much coosideration.—( Hear, hear.) As far
ks his own experience of Quarter Sessions went, he must say
that the law was well administered by the country gentlemen
in the county, a part of which he had the honour to represent.
In reply to a question,
Lord J. RUSSELL stated that the persons to be named by
the Crown under this Act would have a provision similar to
the present Chairman of the Quarter Sessions, and would hold
their offices during good behaviour. We understood the Noble
Lord to say that the payment of their salaries would be pro-
vided out of the county rates.
Mr. HAWES said that the measure which the Noble Lord
proposed entitled him to the thanks of the country. He was
glad that it was intended to place the administration of the law
i this respect in the hands of persons competent, from their
education, to it with the most beneficial effect. The
result of doubling the number of sessions would be, by expe-
diting the administration of the law, to lessen the coat of main-
taining prisoners, and by the quickness of punishment it would
have the eff.tct of lessening crime. He wished that some pro-
vision would be made in the Bill with respect to prison discip-
line.

This was a question which it would be difficult to dis-
s ess without going ireo it at large; but it seemed that our pre-
seat system had rather the effect of furnishing fresh criminals
than of leSsening crime. There was another objection which
lie saw to the Bill, namely, that it was not to be introduced
unless where the magistrates concurred in desiring it. He
thought the Bill ought to be compulsory in this respect.
Captain PEC HE LL expressed his approbation of the mea-
sure. He thought that extending the jurisdiction of these
Courts in the manner proposed by the Noble Lord was cal-
culated to give much satisfaction. Ho hoped that it would be
made compulsory, an not discretionary, with the magistrates
to adopt the Bill.
Mr. AG LIONS Y thought the measure propcsed would be
a great improvement, and its beneficial effect would be greatly
extended if the Courts had a power of trying ejectments for
c-eses of small amount. If there wsre a power given for the
tvial of eases to a certain amount of debt and damages he did
not see any objection to extending. it to cases of ejectment to a
limited amount.. lie concurred in the, opinion that the Bill
eught to be compulsory, for it would be a great advantage to
have an uniformity of jurisdiction.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the jurisdiction of
these Courts would extend to all personal actions to a limited
amount. With respect to the trial of ejectments, he saw no
objections to their being comprised in the jurisdiction to be
est iblished under the Bill. As to making the measure corn-
pulsory, his Honourable Friend he believed to be a sincere
friend of the measure, and certainly making it compulsory
would not tend to make it satisfactory. It was by leaving the
adoption of the measure voluntary and discretionary that it
was best calculated to become useful and general, and he did
not doubt that it would in a very short time be widely and ge-
nerally adopted.
Colonel SIBTHORP said that those who professed a re-
gard for the magistrates of England took a very odd way of
affording a very practical manifestation of their regard for
those gentlemen when they suggested that, instead of being
left to their discretion to adopt the measure, they should have
no discretion at all in the matter, but that the Bill should be
made compulsory. He thought this was by no means behaving
well towards that useful body of gentlemen, who gave their
valuable services gratuitously, and discharged them with no
less advantage than satisfaction to the country. There was
another point to which -he objected—namely, the payment of
the salaries of the officers under this Bill out of the county
rates. This, he thought, would be found burthensome and
unsatisfactory. He wished to call the attention of the Hon.
Gentleman to the fact that offences of a certain description
against property had very much increased in the county with
which he was connected. Ho particularly alluded to the
crime of sheepstcaling, which prevailed to a most alarming ex-
tent. Sheep were stolen in very large numbers, and (as we
understood the lion. Member) found their way into the hands
of persons engaged in the butchering trade. This was a very
serious offence, and one the recurrence and extension of which
it was important to devise means to check.
Ms," HANDLEY thought the Noble Lard entitled to
thanks for the measure, and, whatever might be the expense,
he was sure no part of the magistracy or property of the country
would grudge to contribute their share of it.
Mr. BARN EBY said that, from the manner in which the
Bill had been introduced, it could slot be satisfactory to the
magistrates at Quarter Sessions. He understood that the
Judges of Assize had recommended, such was the increase of
business, that an additional sessions should be held in each of
the months preceding the Assizes. He wished to ask tho
Noble Lord whether the Chairman at those Sessions would
sit as at present with the magistrates, or whether his jurisdic-
tion would be equivalent to that of a Recorder in corporate
towns? He presumed, as a matter of course, that all appeals
err'ainst convictions made by the magistrates would be tried at
the Quarter Sessions.
Lord J. RUSSELL wished to state, in reply to the Hon.
Member's first question, that it was his intention that the
Chairman should sit as the Chairman of Quarter Session does
at present. With respect to the second question of the Hop.
Member, it was. his intention that appeals should be tried by
these Courts, and not by the Quarter Sessions.
Mr. W. S. O'BR lEN said that a similar measure had been
found to operate very advantageously in Ireland. In that
country, however, the salaries were paid out of the Consoli-
dated Fund; and, considering how important was the admi-
nistration of justice, he thought it only fair to the people of
England that the salaries in this case should be paid out of the
Consolidated Fund, and not out of the county rates, as was
proposed by the Bill.
Mr. WODEHOUSE expressed his approval of the Bill.
Though it had been suggested that this measure would be
found burthensome and expensive, yet he did not think that
any one would cemplain of the burthen who was capable of
forming a correct opinion as to the advantage of having the
criminal justice of the country well administered.
After a few words from Mr. J. Smith, Mr. Hodges, Mr.
Gaily Knight.
Mr. BAINES concurring entirely in the opinion that had
been so generously expressed in favour of these great judicial
Reforms, rises principally to ask his Noble Friend, when'the
Bill would be printed and in the hands of the Members? And
to express his wish that it might be circulated before the
approaching Easter Sessions, when its merits might be dis-
cussed in the counties. -
`Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said that he owed his ac-
knowledgments to the House for the manner in which the Bill
had been received. • He would take care to hava the Bill
printed as soon as possible, and trusted to have it ready f„r
circulation some time before the ensuing Quarter Sessions. In
order to give time to have the Bill fully considered it was not
his intention to bring on the second reading until after
Easter, and he trusted that by this means they would be able
to make the Bill as useful and beneficial as possible. With
respect to the observations of the Hon. and Gallant Member
for Lincoln, he had to state that there was a return of the
offences during the last year preparing in the Home office.

TIIE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, MARCH 2, 1838.