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the lice, could any lion. Mtinber ventoro to deny the ne-
e?eitY of the present measure as neeesiary to the welfare
andciety in this countty ?—(Hear, hear.). The Hon.
Gallant Member continued to address the House at
"lie length, but in so low a tone that not one connected
Beats
n of his remarks could be heard even in the front
ea
of the gallery.
Colonel EVANS then moved that the debate be ad-
jrturned to to-morrow (this day.)
This was put and carried.
SCOTCH AND IRISH REFORM BILLS.
The second reading of both those Bills was deferred till
Friday.
In answer to a question from Sir GEORGE CLERIC,
Lord ALTHORP was understood to say, that it was
Intended to move the second reading of the Scotch Re-
form Bill on thit day.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, a d
the House adjourned at a Quarter past One.

HOUSE OF LORDS, SEPTEMBER 19.
At Tea minutes past Five o'clock the Loan CHAN..
*ll4 ort.Loa took• his seat on the Woolsack.
f The Duke ol DEVONSHIRE presented a petition in
,a,"r of Reform from Derby. The Noble Duke
'1! Teed, that the petition was signed in March
yrsa'ts but he could assure the House that the people of
&ter
• The
were still of the same opinion as to this question.
.I.' 'he Marquis of LONDONDERRY was not connected
With the county of Derby, nor did he rise to contra-
fi▪
let the statement of the Noble Duke, but he bad
in,7:4"eived two letters from respectable persons in that town,
°:!" of which stated that the petition in question was
favour
to, and signed on the 14th March, and was in
/our of the the Reform Bill ; but the present Bill was
not what it then was. The other stated that the sending
of the petition at present did not show much wisdom
• their part, nor respect to that House. It also
-1...a115,1 his attention to the alteration which had been made
the petition after it had been siened.
~ The Duke of CUMBERLAND conceived that a peti-
`loll drawn up for the last Parliament could not be re-
' eeived in the present.
Lord KENYON spoke to the same effect.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY moved that the
Petition be withdrawn.
Earl GREY enquired what the prayer of the petition
was?
The petition was then read at length by the clerk.
Earl GREY, having resumed, remarked that the peti-
tion had no date attached, and only prayed that that House
Would pass certain Bills for Reform, when they might
e_otue before it. In his opinion there could be no objection
to the reception of the petition.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE suggested that the proper mode
Would be to withdraw the petition, and then the peti-
tioners might prepare another.
The Earl of ELDON thought the petition irregular,
but had no objection to adjourn the question. He took
the liberty to recommend to his Noble and Learned Friend
on the Woolsack, to be more vigilant iu attending to these
Petitions, in order to see th,t they did not trench on the
legitimate privileges of that House, which, he understood,
some of them had done.
The LORD CHANCELLOR wished be had the power
to resbain that and other irregularities. But the Speaker
of their Lordships' House had no more power to preserve
order than any other Peer ; and certainly he had seen,
within the last three months, more disorderly discussions
in their Lordships' House than he had ever seen before.
Peer put a question to another Peer, and made, perhaps,
ten speeches upon it, although there was no question be-
fore the House; and then brought some question before
'the House on the same subject, and made ten speeches
more. Their Lordships had very good standing orders to
restrain these irregularities, hut their Speaker hail no par-
ticular power to enforce them. That duty was entrusted
to the Peers generally, and, consequently, as what was
ever), body's business was nobody's business, the orders
Were neglected. In the other House, every Member pre-
-44611g a petition was responsible for its regularity, and,
Ls he supposed, it was the same in this House ; and, eon-
lidering the number of petitions, it was, perhaps, best it
should be so.
The Earl of ELDON was of opinion that the Lord
Chancellor, as a Peer, was bound to take care that pe-
titions did not interfere with the legitimate privileges of
that House.
h.. The Duke of DEVONSHIRE would withdraw the
h't'on but had no doubt he would have the honour of
'„
e. r"enting another from the same parties, in favour of
Pendin measure of Reform.
Ihe petition was withdrawn.

PORTUGAL.
if The Earl of ABERDEEN—Not htiving been in the
°use at the time. when the Noble Earl (Grey) had con-
tradicted a statement made by him and his Noble Friend
near him (the Duke of Wellington), as to the proceedings
of the French Admiral in the Tagus, he could not exactly
84Y in what terms that contradiction had been givee. His
Statement was, that the French Admiral had made use of
tae Power which he possessed in the port of Lisbon to de-
triand from the Portuguese Government commercial ad-
vantages in favour of France. The Noble Earl, as be
inderstood, said that it had been communicated to the
• .r,euels Government, that something of that kind had been
-4'd and that the French Government had expressed great
surprise at this, and had denied all knowledge of it. The
üble Earl had accompanied this statement with a
high eulogy on the good faith of the French Government.
TO: that he had no objection, but he was certainly a little
-.llrPrised when he heard that the Noble Earl had, on
ell authority, contradicted a statement of a matter of
fact Which he could prove to be carrect, He was ready
• to substantiate the fact which his Noble Friend and he had
ssa, a
-''''.; and if he did so at the expence of the French Go-
, iernMent, it was the ault of the Nbh Earl, and not his
it would he retnetnbefied, that early in July last a capitu. •
• ,aiti°o had been concluded between the French Admiral in
We Taus, and the Portuguese authotities. Ahout ten-
aY after that, on the 22d July, another capitulation was
e"neluded, in which the Admiral attempted to obtain the
commercial ads, intages for France to which he had before
adverted ; and when he had made the statement, he spoke
with that capitulation in his hand, and he did so now.
e would desclibe what that second capitulation was. It
~
the
of eight articles. The first stated that it was
"e Only real ground for the second convention. It was
t,°t founded on any infraction of the capitulation of
ge 14th July last ; but it was stated that the object
,as to correct certain inaccuracies which had appeared
it I.° the public journals, relative to the first convention; and
~,,, cuss agreed that an accurate statement should be
7,unahed in the Lisboa Gazette. The second article
' "eluted to French travellers coming to Lisbon, and the
Protection anti facilities to be afforded them. The third
r.elated to an alleged insult, said to have been offered to
;11.'e tri-colemred flag on its first appearance in the Tagus.
he fourth was that which more particularly concerned
tao: • "4 country, and to that, more especially, lie called the
, : 4.ttention of the Home. The proposition made by the French
iii_
.! ltniral was different from that which appeared in this article
le of the convention. The French Admiral demanded that the
,t -°nnerce of France with Portugal should be placed by
Portuguese the , • - Government on the footing of that of the
i tnost favoured nation, "nation la plus favor& " meaning
11 the same footing as the commerce of England. That
Iv
i a as qualified by the Government of that country, which
Wa s 00r ancient ally,
aa- and which was still our ally, although
"" Were doing all in our power to destroy its Govern-
in
I •1-,--,
• and the article purported that the Portuguese
Gaaa
•ernment was disposed to treat with Frence, on the
i' auhject of commerce, on terms of reciprocity. The fifth
1
r article related to indemnity to be given to certain French
article
at Lisbon. The sixth article stated that it bad
peen implied, in the former convention, that certain
tl l'renehtnen, confined for political offences, should be set at
ill if• ertYs The seventh article provided that the protection
11l O. the laws should be given to French subjects in Lisbon
1
.' that none should be confined till the Judge Conservator had
decoded on the legality of the arrest ; and that a French-
-1 ta . should be appointed to take care that French subjects
0 Zhao the protection of the Government. The eighth stipulated
t the Portuguese should not fortify the positions on the
/, pap Tagus while the French fleet remained there. This convention
o 4 signed by the Freiich Admiral, aiad Santarem, the
IJ butgee Alittister. The Noble Earl could not question
r.I u. that this convention had actually been entered into ;
r ' if there was any doubt as to its authenticity, he was
Preparedne to prove it. Ile would make no further com-
a 1 ter
on this document so hick he had produced, only in
order to set hinistif right with the House, and to prove
r .tfl.',t his statements, which had been impeached, were per-
,"L'lY correct. ' ' - .
s' EEarl
GREY—It was perfeeLly naltual that the Noble
C' .
"v•r) should wiull to set himself right with the House,
, "r. show on what authority his statement had been made.
of ut, without being at all entirely satisfied with the colt-
ree
,au ones- of the information on which the Noble Earl had
0 ''' ruled his statements, he had only to say that his (Earl
le . (jt.eY's) contradiction rested on the authority of the French
le tz,:7.orntrient, whose despatch relative to this point, it was
Ji l'il, intention to lay on their Lordships' table.—(Hear.)
f: . understood the Noble Earl to have stated, that he bad
it le understood
on unquestionable authority, that the French Ad-
111_t_iral had been availing himself of the power which he
/
,0 'in gamed in the Tagus, to induce the Portuguese Llo-
vertnient to enter into a commercial treaty with France.
To that allegation, be at that time could give no answer,

as be had at the time had nn distinct nr specific informa- 1
lion on the subject. It was true that the Portuguese agent,
or Minister, or agent in this country, bad alluded to some,:
thing about the French Admiral's having made some pro-
, posal about a commercial treaty. But this he did in a
vaeue and incidental manner, and merely to enforce hi:
argument with the Government of this country, while he
was urging our interposition with the French Government
to prevent the taking away the remaining Portuguese ships
from ihe Tagus, and to procure the restoration of those Air:
which had been taken away. It was merely a vague
incidental allusion to the circumstance, without any docu-
ment or other evitir nee to show that the allegation was
well founded. He certainly did not feel that this was a
species of information to which he attached any great
weight, or on which he felt himself called upon to act,
more particular since the French fleet had left the Tagus
without any appearance of any protestation having been
made on the subject of commercial advantages. He un- ,
derstood that the proposition of the French Admiral re-
lated to the restoration of four hundred prisoners ; he
understanding, that if released they should be put on their
Rtrole to undertake nothing against the existir,g Govern-
vernment of Portugal. He had beard nothing about any
commercial propositions from British merchants residing
in, or trawling with, Portugal, who were most nearly in.
terested in the question nor from any credible source
whatever, and the kind of notice he had received was so
uncertain, indefinite, and vague, th It he did not feel
that it formed any proper-ground for interference on the
subject. But then the Noble Earl referred to a con-
vention concluded between the French Admiral and the
Portuguese authorities, subsequent to the 14th July.
Perhaps the Noble Earl might be surprised at what he
was, about to state ; hut the fact was, that this was the
first time that he heard of that convention. He knew
only or one convention, consisting of 14 articles (Earl of
ABERDFEN—Ot 20 articles)—consiating at first of 14 arti-
_ .

des, to which 6 were afterwards added, but these 6 con-
tained nothing. of importance. In a dispatch of Lord
Granville, from Paris, dated tile sth September, he
et ited, that the French Minister, Sebastiani, had expressed
his surprise at some statements that he had seen in the public
journals, about a proposition baying been made by the French
Admiral, relative to a Commercial treaty between France
and Portugal ; and Lord Granville added, that General
Sebastiani had authorised him to declare that there had
been no negotiations whatever of the kind set on foot.
It
this was not a distinct and explicit contradiction of the
Noble Earl, he did not know what could be so.—(Hear,
hear.) He had undoubtedly said that he believed the
French Government were acting with honour and good
faith, and that opinion he was nut disposed to retract.
The statement in the dispatch was a complete contradic-
tion to that-of the Noble Earl, and fully justified the con-
tradiction that he had given to it. This was his autho-
rity, which lie considered as somewhat better than the
authority on which the Noble Elul had relied. On
which side the truth lay would shortly appear.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—When he spoke on
this subject on a former night, he did so from a document
in the hands of his Noble Friend, from which document
it appeared that the French Admiral had proposed that
the Portuguese Government should place the French on
the same favourable commercial footing as the English, and
that this proposition had been resisted by the Portuguese
Government.—(Hear, bear, from the Opposition benches.)
Now the Noble Earl sail that lie had no knowledge of
that convention, and he gave the Noble Earl full credit
for the truth of that assertion. The Noble Earl, how-
ever, produced the contradiction given by the French Mi-
nister to the statement made by him and his Noble Friend,
to which lie could only say that he had authority fur
what he had stated. But how happened it, that having
a Consul-General at Lisbon, lie had not, even so late as
the month of September, inquired into and ascertained,
and communicated to his Government, a negociation
which had taken place in the month of July.—(Hear,
hear.) There must he some reason for this. Either
that officer must have been very negligent, or else there
was a total want of confidence in him en the
part of the Government of Portugal.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) This circumstance ought to make our Go-
vernment look to the conduct of the British Consul-
General at Lisbon, that it might be seen whether that con-
duct had not been such, with respect to the Government
of Portugal, as to render it impossible for that Govern-
ment to treat him with confidence.—(Hear, hear.) If
British ships were sent out in order to protect British sub-
jects, he hoped that no better pretection would be required
than that which was due to them by the laws of the
country where they resided ; ler he denied that they were
entitled to any particular privileges in this respect, or that
the Portuguese Government was hound to afford them
any protection superior to, or contrary to the laws of the
country. He was the more anxious on this subject, as he
was apprehensive that all this interference would end in
producing a civil war in Portugal and Spain—(Hear,
hear, front the Opposition benches)—and fie contended that
it was the duty of our Government to cheek our Consul-
General, in order to show the Portuguese that our Go-
vernment did not sanction any unjustifiable inteiference on
his part with the proceedings of the Portuguese Government.
He was the more anxious that this system of undue inter-
ference should be checked, because he was convinced that
not only the properties, but the lives of British subjects,
would be in imminent danger, in case of a civil commotion
'ng place in Portugal. He more earnestly recommended
the Government of this country to abstain from any un-
justifiable interference in the internal affairs of Portugal,
and lie did so nut more out of regard to the interest of
Portugal, than tc the honour of England.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord HOLLAND—Whatever might be the opinion of
the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, or of any
other Nimble Lord on the point ot order, he was sure that
this discussion, without any question before the House,
was contrary to the standing orders. But although his
Noble Friend hail given so plain and clear a contradiction
to the statement of time Noble Earl, and had stated that
he had never heard of the circumstance of any commer-
cial proposition having been made by the French Admiral,
except as a vague and indistinct and indefinite rumour,
the Noble Earl appeared to think it incumbent upon him
t,, insist that his allegation was wed founded anti true.
He might, perhaps, be thought to encroach on the province
of time Noble Lords on the opposite side of the llou-e,
when he said that he would put a question, to them.—
(Hear, hear.) But he had the same right to put ques-
tions to them, as they had to put questions to his Maji-sty's
Ministers. They said that they had authority for their
assertions, and he gave them full credit for not meaning to
state any thing except what they believed to he the fact.
But what was the authority?--(A laugh.) A laugh was
nothing to time purpose. But the Noble Duke had
thought proper to attack a most able and vigilant public
officer, and in doing so be took it for granted as a fact,
that such a convention as that to which lie had referred
had actually been signed, and that such a proposal had
been made, which was a point that still remained to be
proved. Now he asked the Noble Duke and the Noble
Earl from whom or on what authority had they obtained
their information ? When they relied on this as a matter
of charge against a public officer, they ought to state the
authority on which their information rested. But they only
referred to some paper in which the statement was made ;
but from whom that paper came; or what degree of credit
was due to it, their Lordships knew nothing. Tar the
absence of any good authority they had only to examine
the nature of the fact and try it by probabilities. In the
first place it was strange that if such st convention had
been concluded with such an article in it as that which
had been referred to, the French Admiral should have
waited for eight or ten days after the first execution before
entering upon this second negociation. In the next place,
the Noble Earl had been for three years in quest of some
merits, that might with some colour be ascribed to Mi-
guel ; and in all that time the Noble Earl had started but
very little game; and therefore it was not surprising that
he eliould be delighted at finding this paper, without exa-
mining very closely into the authority on which it rested.
44 Now, then," the Noble Len! ea-claimed, "cope, euraika
—_l have out the mighty secret ; I have discovered one
great merit in Miguel ; for he refused to join the French,
and adhered to the English, although deserted by them at
his utmost need. But if it really had been true that Mi-
guell had adhered
by the
ie toti'eEnglish, in opposition to a propo-
B a made French, was it nut most singular that
Miguel had never 111%0 it as a merit with our Govern-
ment ? Was it likely if he had done this that he should
never have suggested to our Government that such a pro-
posal had been made, and that he had had the merit
to resist it, and deserved credit with us for hawing done
so ? Yet nothing of all this was ever directly and ex-
plicitly done. The statement of the Portuguese Mini-
ster was a reasoning paper upon other subjects, and some
allusion to this proposal etas only made incidentally
in support of his argument. Then, again, n hat could
he more probable than that the Noble Lords on
the opposite side of the House had been misin-
formed ? Let us look at the kind of information which
they had been in the habit of receiving, and see
what credit was due to it. The Noble Earl had Stated as
facts information which be had received relative to pro-
ceediegs at Lisbon and Terceira, all of which turned out
to be unfounded. In the first place he had made a great
noise about the detention of the chartered ships at Lisbon
by our Consul, although they were proceeding on a per-
fectly legal expedition. But the fact was neither more nor
less than this, that doubts had been entertained as to wise-
ther it watt legal for the chartered ships to proceed on that

expedition, and the Con;nl did no ?Ore than his duty in '
detaining them till he got instructions from home. as to
whether it was legal or not, - -An answer was without a
moment's delay sent out, that it was perfectly legal for the
chart•red ships to proceed. on the expedition, and the de-
tention was immediately put an end to. Then, in the
next place, the Noble Earl had said a great deal about the
differ• nt measure that was meted out -to the adherents of
Donna Maria at Terceira. But what was the fact? The
moment the irregularity was known remonstrance was
made and satisfaction demanded, and satisfaction was as

promptly given ; and the neutrality of the British nation
was ever afterwards respected and never infringed. Then,
in the course of the last month, the Noble Earl had told
us a great deal about the people of the Azores, and their
attachment to Miguel, as he had told us about the
a-tachtnent of the people of Portugal to the same per-
sonage—they who had not been remarkable for their
deference to democratic feelings or democratic attach-
mits. Their Lordships had been told by the Noble
Earl on the sth August that the people of Terceira,
lie believed, and the people of the other islands,
he knew, were attached to the Government of Don
Miguel, and felt themselves oppressed by the Military
Government of the Regency.—(Hear.) En short, the
Noble Earl represented the whole of the Azores to he the
faith'ul subjects of Miguel, and the Government of Ter-
reira to he nothing better, than pirates. But lie (Lord
Holland) believed that it was on that same day one of his
Majesty's ships left the Azores to carry to England the act.
count o' a brilliant action, in which a small expedition
from Terceira, unprovided with artillery, took possession
of St. Michael's, one of the finest of those islands, and
assisted by the inhabitants, who were said to be so devoted
to Don Miguel, trade themselves masters of the capital.
The commander of the ship which brought the account
to England bore testimony not only to the gallantry and
courage with which the troops of the Regency effected the
conquest, tint to their mercy, forbearance, and moderation
tfter victory. He (Lord Holland) ventured, therefore, to
suppose that the Noble Earl might have been misin-
formed, or might have fallen into mistake. But it was
worth while to mark how Noble Lords opposite spoke of
the objects of the French squadron when first it entered
the Tagus, and what winks and hints, and cheers, and
sarcasms passed upon the other (the Opposition) side of
the House when that expedition was alluded to. The
French Admiral (as Noble Lords would have it) did not
go to the Tagus through a feeling of sympathy for his in-
jured and oppressed fellow-subjects. Oh, co; he and his
Government had far different views.—(Cheers from the
Opposition.) Noble Lords might cry hear, hear--(A
laugh)—but if the French squadron had been sent to
Lisbon with other intentions than those that were
professed, what did they eventually obtain? In fact,
what further did they seek? He begged their Lord-
ships to mark what did happen. The fleet went, it was
said, to revolutionize Portugal. They lay some two or
three weeks in the Tagus ; and in the mean time there
was no revolution, nor any disturbance. " Oh, oh,"
says the Noble Earl, " now I have it— now see how fond
the people of Portugal are of their good King Don Mi-
guel."—(Laughter.) But the fleet sailed away from under
the walls of Lisbon, and left Miguel to his loving subjects ;
and what were the consequences ? Tumults and insur-
rection immediately took place, wholly unconnected with
any thing in which the French had interfered.—(Hear,
hear.) 'Noble Lords might cry " Hear, hear !" but he
would leave it to their ingenuity to reconcile those dis-

tutbances with the boasted affection of the Portuguese
people to their present Government.—(llear, hear.) He
could not, therefore, give any credit to the assertion that
the French Government had views which they did not
avow respecting Portugal ; nor could he believe it without
sonic better proofs than the surmises of the Noble Lords op-
posite. He could not help observing the community of
feeling which subsisted between those Noble Lords and
Don Miguel on certain subjects. The Portuguese Go-
vernment were said to have felt great gratification on the
prospect that the Reform Bill would be thrown out, and
that, consequently, the present Ministers would be obliged
to retire from his Majesty's service. At every stage of its
success, sighs were wafted from the Thames to the Tagus,
and responding aspirations borne backikorn the Tagus to
the Th imes.—(The Noble Lord conclWl by referring to
the convention of the 14th of July, but his observations
were not distinctly heard below the bar.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN did not think that the
Noole Lord, who had just sat down, could lay his hand
up ,n his heart, and say that the objects of the French Go..
vernment, in their conduct toward. Portugal, were not
such as he (Lord A.) had stated them to be.—(llear.)
Indeed the Noble Lord seemed to be speaking of what
ne really knew nothing about. He (Lord Aberdeen)
thought that the Noble Lord might at least have hesitated
before he gave currency to a contradiction of what he
(Lord Aberdeen) and his N..ble Friend near him (the
Duke of Wellington) had stated, unless his purpose was
merely to amuse himself and the House. But if the
Noble Lord (Holland) was really sincere in the opinions
wvich he had stated, he (Lord Aberdeen) held in his hand
the Lisbon Gazette, in which the articles of the ctin•
vention were published, in compliance with the first ar
tide; and he could satisfy the Nobls. I ord, from that pa-
per, of the facts which he seemed to doubt. But lie should
not dwell further on the subject, because he himself was
fully satisfied of the accuracy of his own statements. He
thought it the duty of every Member of Parliament to
inform himself as much as possitle of the conduct of other
Governments, so far as concerned the honour and the
welfare of this country—( Hear, bear)—and to lay before
the House everything of importance which might come to
his knowledge. With respect to the convention, he was
sure that the Noble Earl opposite (Earl Grey) was aware
of the correctness of his statement ; and he should now
only notice the misrepresentation, of the Noble Lord who
hail last addressed their Lordabips, respecting what ho
had said upon a former occasion. Two British ve-sels
hid been chartered by the Portuguese Government,
for the purpose of conveying information, the port
being, at the time, blockaded by the French squa-
dron. Now the Noble Lord impugned his statement
respecting the unjus,itiable detention of those ships by
the British Consul ; and yet the fact, that lie did detain
them, turned out to be true to the letter. It was true
that Mr. Hoppner reported to his Government what he
had done; and he (Lord Aberdeen) never supposed that
his Majesty's Ministers could have sanctioned such injus-
tice.—(Hear.) The conduct ol the Consul, however, or.
casioned the most serious inconvenience to the Government
of Portugal. All that he (Lord Aberdeen)) h stated
upon that subject was perfectly correct. The Noble Lord
(Holland) had also alluded to some others of his statements.
It was true that he had attributed to the French Govern-
ment other objects than to obtain rep oration ; but •he had
never stated that as having official information of their
having such views. He still believed, however, that the
French Government did expect great results to follow from
the expedition of their fleet to the Tagus; and, in fact,
their Consul expressed such an expectation. The Noble
Lord spoke of time disturbances which took place after the
departure or the French squadron, as proofs that the sub-
jects of Don Miguel were not attached to his Government.
The tact was, that about three hundred persona mutinied,
and the result of their seditious movements proved the
truth of every syllable which he had said respecting the
popularity of Don Miguel. No man was induced to join
the mutiny. On the contrary, all persons, civil and mili-
tary, united to put it down. From all the information
which be (Lord Aberdeen) had received, he firmly be-
lieved that, if that country were left to itself, the present
Portuguese Government was as firmly established as any
other in Europe.—(llearf) He could not say what the
presence of an English and French fleet in the Tagus might
effect. He could not say what disturbance, and misery,
and civil war, might not be effected by money gent from
England for the purpose (as money hod been sent before),
and by intrigues of every sort, But 'on believed that it
would be 801 exceedingly difficult to injure the stability
of the present Government. He was only anxious to set
the Noble Lord opposite right respecting those transactions;
and having endeavoured to do so, be did not wish, on a
question of such very great ddicacy, to press the discus-
sion further.
Earl ti REY was sure that the House must perceive the
inconvenience of the discus:ion which bad been carried on
that evening—(llear)—and lie, therefore, was very un-
willing to continue it. But when the Noble Earl spolts)
of money having been furnished from Englael f;sr the pur-
pose of creating disturbances in Portugal, he wished to ask
the Noble Earl, did he mean to say that his Majesty's Go-
vernment had had anything to do in such a transaction.—
(The Earl of ABthtDEEN—No.) Ile was glad to bear the
Noble Earl say no. He was glad to have the Noble Earl's
contradiction of the impression which hi i speech was cal-
culated to make. Whether money was furnished or not
for such purposes lie knew init. Indeed he very much
doubted that there were any sources front which such a
supply could be furnished. The Noble Earl opposite bad
expressed his surprise that be (Lord grey), after all he
had seen and known, could troy i bave fe,itli ma the French
qoyern;;le;,•t. But he must say, that, after all he had seen,
and from all that he knew, be never, in any part of the
transactions referred to, had any mason to doubt the good
faith of that Government.—(Hear.) The Noble Earl ad-
mitted that lie and the Noble Duke beside Lien had made
their statements upon the information of others, on whom
they could rely ; at the same time that they refused to state
from what sources they had derived that information, It
TVIP most likely that the information came from persons

' connected with the Portuguese Government and interested
in giving to their representations the tone most favourabh
to that Government. It must, therefore, be allowed tha
anything from such per-ons must be received with some
degree of distrust. The French Admiral had distinctly
denied that commercial advantages had been demanded o;
the part of France. The Noble Earl thought that the
British Consul was greatly to blame if he did not 'mak.
known to his Government the proceedings of the Frenc
Admiral respecting the commercial treaty; hut from all
that he (Earl Grey) knew of that gentleman, lie was sure
that the result would prove that no such fault was attri
butable to him. Having no communication from him or
the subject, his Majesty's Ministers were hound to take th.
assurance of the French Government. The Noble Lord
had said very properly, that he would not press his Ma.
jesty's Government for a statement of their motives an"
intentions. Bat at the same time that he spoke of not
pressing them as to the objects for which they sent out thi
ships of the line, he expressed hopes that this and that
were not the objects, thereby indirectly attributing those
objects to the expedition, he certainly was not adhering to
the professions with wh ch he commenced.—(Hear.) He
would occupy the House no longer than merely to say, that
until he should have some furs her proofs than the opinions
of the Noble Earl, he could not doubt the good faith dal.
present Governm,nt of France.
The Earl of ABERDEEN was certain that the Noble
Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government could not
dispute the authenticity of a fact which had been corn-
pleted. In ordinary times, if the. French Government at-
tempted to impose injurious conditions urnn Portugal, the
British Consul would, of course, be the first person to he
applied to by tine latter Government, and to be informed
of its difficulty. But considering the situation in tel
floppner had placed himself, and his close connection
with the French Admiral—a connection very unusual f,,r
a British Consul—it might be expected that he was the
last person to whom the Portuguese Government would
apply. —( Ileac. )
Lord HOLLAND replied, hut in a tone inaudible be.
low the Bar; and the conversation 'was then allowed to
drop.