The Sun.
London, England, 1825-06-28 00:00:00

TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 28, 1825.

PARLIAMENT.

jurious to the suitors and the public. lie (the Lord Chancellor;
would pledge himself to be as active as any. Noble Lord in cor-
recting abuses, but be would perform his duty with a due regard
-to the rights f others. The reason why, in the present Bill,
there appeared no clause regulating offices in the Court of Chan-
cery was, 'theta commission was now sitting on the state of that
Court. Much misrepresentation had gime abroad concerning
his Conduct since he presided over tbat Court ; but whatever he
might suffer from such calumny and mis-statement, he enjoyed
the consolation that he had • been incorrupt in his office, and he
could form no better wish for his country than that his succes-
sor_shoultl be penetrated with an equtil desire, to execute his
duties with fidelity. The'lielings and fate of an individual
were in ,themselves of small importance to the public, and he
(the Lordt.niancellor) might be sacrificed to the insults which
11,e daily reotived ; but he begged Noble 141rds to reflect that
he might not he the only sacrifice. If the object was, as it. ap-
peared to be, to pull down the reputation and throw discredit on
the motivesamlconduct of men in high official situations—if
every man who occupied an eminent station in the church or
the state were to become the object of slander . and calumny_L
then- their Lordships-might laY'lltrilaccotint with similar
treatment, and might rest convinced that their privileges as
Peers could not long be respected 'When such characters had been
sacrificed.—(Hear,- hear !) - • -
Earl GROSVENOR explained.—lf the Noble Lord was
not overpaid, by the emoluments of his office, it ought to be recol-
lected that it had extensive patronage.
. Lord- RE DESDALE defended the conductor the Lord Chan-
cellor.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, JUNE 27.

''The Loop CHANCELLOR, the Marquis of WINCHESTER,
and the Earl of SHAF TES/JURY, sat as C-onmeissioners, and
notified.the Royal assent to the Buckingham-house, the Excise
Licences Bill, the Quarantine • Regulation Bill, the Colonial
Intercourse Bill, the Mauritius Trade Bill, the Canadian
Company Bill, the Distillery Bill, the Lunatic Trustees Bill,
and several private Bills.
Mr. BROGDEN, and others from the Commons, brought up
several Bills, which were read a first time.
UNIVERSITIES' BILL.
The Earl of SII.-IFTEIItURY moved the third reading of
this. Bill, which, being carried, he moved that the Bill do pass.
The Earl, of LAUDERDALE thought this was a Bill
which ought not to pass. It contained evidence against itself,
for the clause to, which he should object contained* regulation
whielt:ripplierkonly to one University (Oxford); wftierts,.. if io
were necessary, it. would be just as much wanted as the other.
The clause peoposed to enact, that any common prostitute. who
Might be found wandering about should be•deemed a disorderly
person, and should be liable to be punished as a vagrant. But
who was to determine the question of a woman being a com-
mon, prostitute.? tinder that pretext, any woman who hap-
pened to be 'walking' in the public walks might be taken up.
If apprehended by a common constable, a woman might think
such a stain cast on her character, that she might not be able
to give an account of herself. His own, wife might go stroll.
ing about from curiosity, and if taken up, not like to say who
she was. He had been at Oxford himself a short time.; and
did not see any want of that regularity which would call for
such a measure as this. But if there was any use for this 00.
traordinary power, why was it not required for Cambridge
also ? He intended to move that the clause be omitted. •
The LORD CHANCELLOR defended the clause, which
he considered quite necessary. The reason why it was not ex-
tended to Cambridge was, that that trniversity possessed suffi-
cient powers by its charter. •
After a few words exchanged between Lords LA UDE lIDA LE
and LIVERPOOL, the former moved that the word " wander-
ing" be left out, and the words " acting in a disorderly man-
ner" be substituted in its stead.
This motion was negatived in a division 13 to 8.
COURTS OF LAW BILL. • .
The Earl of LIVERPOOL, moved the Order of the Day
for proceeding with the Bill for regulating Courts of Law.
Earl GROSVENOR took that opportunity of making'some
observations on sinecure offices—a subject to which lie had often
bethre called the attention of their Lordships. The office of
of Lord Justice General of Scotland, he conceived, was one of
that description; anti though it had been understood that that
office was to he abolished, it appeared that it was still main-
tained. The Noble Earl next adverted to the office of the
Clerk of the Peels, which was one of those intended to be re.
formed, but the public was not sufficiently benefited by any
alteration made with respect to it. With respect to the sale of
offices in Courts of Law, he was glad that practice: was to •be
put areend to ; lie wished to see all unnecessary offices abolish.
ed at ono. • He alsO objected toi the unnecessary increase iof
salaries. The Nobie.and Le.arpoti Lord who approved ~of- the
Bills on the table Must surety. torah that they had. been intro- '
duced ten years ago. He understood, however, that it was not
intended to extend the inquiry. with regard to salaries to the
Court of Chancery. He thought, however, that die Noble anti
Learned Lord, both as Head of that Court, and as Speaker of
their Lordship's House, should be included in the inquiry. •
. . •
The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose to say a words, though all
that had fallen from the Noble. Earl appeared to him to haveno HOUSE OF COMMONS.
reference to the Bills now before the House. The Clerkship of The SPEAKER took the Chair at four o'clock. The
the Peels had been regulated in conformity with the Act of Usher of the Black Rod having summoned -the House to -.at-
Parliament ; it. was no sinecure; there was no public ..office in tend to witness the Royal Assent given to various public and
which the duty wa4 more constant than that of the Clerk of the private Bills, die Speaker, followed by the Members, attended
Peels; but as the duty had always been done by" Deputy, it thellouse of Peers accordingly. On their return,
was thought by Parliament that mitt system should no longer 1 The SPEAKER announced the Bills to which the Royal
continue, and that the person who held it should he an efficient Assent had been given by Cotnmission.—(See Lords.)
officer. No system,could bemore perfect than thatof the Excise. I Mr. C. CALVERT presented a petition from Walter !Tony-
quer for preventing defaults. This was proved by the fact that wood 'Vete, Esq., complaining of the usurpation and abuses
for centari,s there bad been no example of anyelefault occurring in respect to the elective franchise of the City and Borough of
In the Exchequer. • The wise cheeks which their ancestors had Hereford, (effected by the Corporation.'
introduced into that department had rendered defaults almost l • Mr. HOBHOUSE presented a tietition from the Pawn-
impossible. But the Noble Lord must not suppose that this sys. brokers of Westminster, against the Looitable Loan Bill.
'tens could be maintained unless the officers of that department • COURT OF CHANCERY.
had efficient duties to perform.. • With regard to the offices to Mr. BERNAI, presented a petition from Frances Helligar,
be
.regulated, the Noble Lord. wart.-wrong in supposing that complaining of the grievous and intolerable oppression and
changes were made because there was no business to do in them, delay of Chancery proceedings. The petitioner is a widow,
The bill before the Henise provided for the abolition of certain • .reduced to pauperism, in the Greenwich workhouse, although
offices when the existing interests should expire. The object her husband left 14001. and more to her in 1809,- of which
of the regolations, as he bagostated, was,.:that wherever there 3001; have been claimed by his creditors, and 11001. wastedby
was business„ the.duties should be perfornied by efficient offi. a common proceeding in Chancery for the distribution of the
cers. • As to the office filled by his Noble and Learned Friend effects. He had hitherto abstained -from taking part in the dis-
the. salary he derived from it .was known. It was before the cussion upon Chancery abuses, but it was not because he was
House and before 'the publics- and there was no man 'who ignorant of them: on the contrary,-he could speak with.cer.
knew • the duties 'WhiCh attached to that otfiee would think tainty of the abuses of the practice in the Master's Office, which
the reward sufficient. The 'heads of the Courts of 'Law had were too expensive and dilatory to be countenanced by any
been admitted to be insufficientlY remunerated' by their' sales persons, the Masters themselves not excepted. .
ries, and therefore they had been allowed to. pro* by the • Mr.- PEEL said, that he would take care that the sub-
sale of offices ; but the. situation of the Lord Chancellor was stance of the petition should be referred to the Cominissioners
different from that of the chief's of the other courts, . for no of Equity Inquiry. He admitted that the evils complained of
sale of offices was allowed' in Chancery. With respect to the were considerable.
puisne judges, he would wish their Lordships to reflect for a , Mr. CALCRAFT said, that in , the eyes of the House
moment whether it was not proper that they should have•an and the country, the constitution of the Commission was by
increase of salary. In their situation, and at their time of no .means impartial. He hoped that if the Report should
life, with a knowledge eerie tabours they had to perform, prove not .satisfactory, that the Right Honourable Secretary
could any one think theth .itio• highly remunerated by 5,000/.. would'consent to the appointment of a more independent anti
.a year ? • Could it' be said that those Learned Persons were impartial Commission. to be composed of persons who were
overpaid, when many of their Lordships, who had no laho. not by their stations so directly within the influence of the Su.
'rions dutieS like theirs to perform, possessed so much more iretne Judge •of that Court.
Earl GROSVENOR explained. Mr. PEL denied that the commission was at all partially
The LORD CHANCELLOR complained in the strongest constituted. He admitted that it had been appointed so long,
!terms of the misrepresentations and calumnies which had gone that if no report were forthcoming by the early part of. next
forth • respectieg the emoluments of his. office, although the Session, the House would have reason to complain of delay.
amounts of its profits hail been already given in accounts be- Mr. T. W I LSON presented a petition from Thomas Devon,
fore the House of Commons, and the means were apparent praying for compensation for some services rendered by him in
for the correction Of such mistakes as had gone abroad. Per- the course of the late war.
haps it was thought that otiie ..ode of .calumnious. nrisre-
COUNTRY BANK NOTES.
presentation was the way to. get him out of .office ; they Mr. HUME recalled the attention of the House to the peti-
were mistaken who thought sot he would not yield tes such tion of a Mr. Jones, which he presented on a former night,
aspetsions, nor shrink froni;casserting what he owed to himself. complaining of the refusal of a Bristol bank to pay him the va-
Had he been treated with common justice, he should not, per. lue of two of their notes, which he presented for the purpose,
hapsohave remained Lord Chancellor this day, but be repeat- in gold. He really thought that our currency ought by no
ed he would not be driven from his office by calumnious attack. means to be permitted to remain in its present state; for while
Let him only be treated with common justice, and in five mi. it did, -it could not be contended either that it was in healthy
nutes his office should be any body's disposal. From the ae_ condition, or that it was a gold currency, as it ought, and was
counts which had been furnished to him of his emoluments as intended to be. The condition it was in had already led to a
Lord Chancellor, by those who best knew the amount, apart considerable rise of prices. By the 37th of Geo. 111., c. 32,
from his' income as Speaker of the House of Lords, he was commonly called the Cash Suspension Bill, it was provided
hippy to saY, that the Lord Chiefisistice of the Coiirt of King's (sect. 3), " that if any person, being liable for the payment of
Bench had received a larger income from his office: lie, quoted any. such notes and draughts as might be issued in pursuance
from the average accounts of the last three.YeaSS; and be would of that act, should object to pay the sum or sunse of money
further say, that in no one year, since he had-been-made Lord thereon becoming due, in specie, within the space of three days
Chancellor, had he received the sante amount of profit which he after demand made thereon by the holder of such draughts or
enjoyed while at the bar._ Strange, then, it was, that he should notes, it shouldhe lawful for Justices of the Peace, Magistrates
be attacked as lie had been by rnisstatementsand misrepresenta- ' of the Session, &c., upon complaint to dint effect being made
tions of every kind. Had he remained at the bar, 'and kept the to them, and they were thereby required to summon every such
situation he held there, he solemnly declared he should not be person against whom such complaint should have been prefer-
one shilling a poorer man than he was at this moment, riotwith. red, and after examining parties and witnesses on oath, they
standing Its office. His Noble Friend (Earl GrOsvenoryshould were empowered, if the complaint should be established to their
not have blamed him for not bringing the subject before the satisfaction, to award die suns due;" and such suns With costs,
house earlier. It had often heeti brought forward, and it was in detault of payment, might be levied by sale and distress on
thought that the emoluments arising front' the sale of offices the goods, &e. of the party proceeding againmit. Ina subsequent
should not be interfered with because, had it been abolished; bill this valuable clause had been unfortunately omitted_ he
the Chief Justices of the Supreme Gauls must have received a meant in the Bill of the Rightlion. Gentleman (MroPeel, We
compensation in sonic other way. I t was therefore concluded believe), relative to the re-establishment of the currency. Such
that Parliament made a good bargain for the public in allowing being the case, he thought the house ought not to lose a mo-
tltem
augmentedtremain.o from‘
l timehe totime, n the Ssalar
no augmentation had taken y of the puisne judges had
meat's
time in re-enacting it, so that it might becomes part of
been
time law of the land on this momentous subject. It was calcu. '
place in that of the chiefs, hecau-se they were considered as de. hated that 991. out of every 1001. issued in notes, was issued
riving part of their emoluments from this source. It could not in notes of the country Bankers ; and the consequence of
for a moment be supposed that having entered on the laboriceis this redundant issue of paper was, that in the country
duties of their office under the conviction that its emoluments there was little or no gold to to be got. Ile was sorry that he
were to be secured to them by law, they were to be turned did-not at that moment see the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr.
adrift without any regard, to their rights- The Parliament had Peel) in his place, for he would only. upon this topic beg to
said, by
_the act abolishing sinecures and regulating offices, that refer the Right lion. Secretary to his own definition of a cur-
no. sinecures shall exist after the present invested interest should rency in shut well known act, usually called Mr. Peel's Bill.
expire; but the present possessors had just as good a title by It was quite clear to his (Mr. Hume's) mind, that the country
law to their emoluments as their Lordships had to their estates. bankers' paper which was afloat had nothing of that character
The Noble Earl entirely misunder.tood the question with re- which attached to " currency" in the sense that term was used
gard to sinecure offices. Bills had been repeatedly sent up in the act he spoke of. His reasons for again moving that this
from the other House for ahoosionk diem, and they had been petition be brought up. were, that it rewarded a matter of ex.
resisted, heentstse the persons who brought theism here did not treme importance to the country at large—that the petitioner
understand the question. It was meant that because the had felt himself to be reflected on •by some observations that
deputy did nil the drudgery of the office, therefore the grin- on a thriller night had fallen from the Hon. Baronet.
cipal was of no use. The doctrine was founded on a mistake ; s
yMtri;
rt tAheßlLlMinVqluSesotbsionerral,
ntohtatasitreisvpaescntaobtiefora
fihrirnm
asto
any in the country. He apprehended that
,the subject matter
the presence of the principal might not always be required=--Lis
superintendence might not be applied from day to day—but it
was applied on proper occasions—and were-not his responsibility of the present case arose out of the circumstance of some in.
always interposed, the consequences might be extretisely temperate warmth having been displayed by the party cum-

The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
INTEREST OF MONEY IN INDIA.

The 'Marquis of HASTINGS'moVed that the opinion of the
Judges be heard on the construction'of the Act for regulating
the interest of money in India.
•,
Lord Chief Justice BEST delivered the opinion of the Judges,
in favour of the bill of the Noble Marquis. The act for re-.
stricting the interest-of money to 12 per cent. was to be inter.:
preted according to its letter, as it was a penal statute.; and by
its literal interpretation it was only to be enforced in the done_
nions of the Company. It could not be cons.rubd as extending
to tbreign states in alliance with the British Power. It could
not regulate the transactions of borrowers or lender's in the do-
minions of the native Princes where British jurisdiction did not
extend. If borrowers there suffered from the oppressive acts
of those with whom they had money dealings, they might apply
for protection to their own Government, and not to that of the
Company. The laws against usury had a reference to the value
'of money in different countries. Accordingly, there were three
different limits to the amount of legal interest in the British do-
minions, one for Great Britain, another for Ireland, and another
for India. Our rides in this respect could not consequently be
binding on British subjects in foreign states. Besides, by the
act,-the offence of usury was to be punished where it was com-
mitted—but what jurisdiction had we in the dominions of the
native Princes ? • In Misconstruction of the law, he was sup-
ported by two decisions of the Supreme Court of Bengal.
'l'•he Alarquis of HASTINGS observed, that lie would add
nothing to what had bdeu said by the learned judge, but would
only move that the bill be committed to-morrow.

.J.brtl-MELVILLE moved the second reading of the bill for
extending the provisions of the cutting and maiming act to
Scotland.—Report to-mhrrow.
The Earl of WESTMORLAND presented a petition from
Richard Stafford Cooke relative to the Stafford peerage, which
f was.referred to the Committee of Privileges.
! Several bills were then forward Id in their stages, and the.
r flouseadjourned at Half:Trot Seven o'Clock.