The Sun.
London, England, 1836-08-22 00:00:00

although there may have been a Session in which more labour
may have been bestowed, there has scarcely been a session
for the last 20 years, I can safely' say, in which I have
devoted more time to the business of this House.—(Hear.)
Why do I defend myself? Because at the close of this ses-
sion I see very little effected in comparison to what ought to
have been effected. And who has been the opposing power?
Why, the other House of Parliament.—( Hear.) I therefore
say, Sir, the Commons of England have endeavoured to carry
Out the recommendations of his Majesty from the Throne, and
have endeavoured to effect such alterations in the several esta.
blishments, as would give satisfaction to the people, and be-
nefit the subjects of his Majesty. Sir, I hold in my hand the
recommendation of his Majesty on the 24th of February,
,1831 i, and on the 4th day of February, 1836, in which
his Majesty calls on the House of Parliament to effect such a
change in the tithe system, of Ireland as will for ever put an
end to the question, and enable his Majesty's subjects in Ire-
' land to live in harmony and peace. Last year the Commons
sent up a Bill to that effect. This year they did the same.
These Bills would have carried into effect the intentions' and
wishes of his Majesty : and, Sir, who are those that have stood
between his Majesty and the fulfilment of his expectations?—
( Cheers.) Are the Commons to blame ? No, Sir; they have
done their duty, but the House of Lords appear to be deter-
mined to deny that justice for which the people of Ireland have
a right to call, and which his Majesty from the Throne recom-
mended.--( Hear, bear.) I say, therefore, the Lords are the
parties who ought to be complained against, and not the Com-
mons of England, who have up to the present period given
the utmost attention to the wishes of his Majesty, and the
wishes of his subjects. If blood is shed—if discontent is ma-
nifested, the House of Lords, who have opposed the recom-
mendation of his Majesty, and who have refused to second the
Commons, will be responsible, and the people of
Ireland will know who are the opposing parties.--( Cheers.)
An attempt has been made in soother plate- to ma:— 4 *war
that the House of Commons cared nothing for the interests of
the people--that we have not devoted ourselves industriously
and conscientiously towards the attainment of that object; but
I, for one, proclaim that lam not liable to any such charge, nor
do I think it is a charge which can be sustained against
his Majesty's Ministers, or any of the Honourable Gen-
tlemen who sit on this side of the House, and give the
Government their support.—(Hear, hear, hear.) I admit,
however, that there is a large, too large, minority of this House
who are opposed to the measures of his Majesty's Government.
He regretted that minority was so large. But the time was
coming when they would see that number reduced in a consti-
tutional manner.—( Cheers.) At all events, on the part of
the majority of that House, and on his own part, he would say
that, with regard to the reform of the Church of Ireland,
they had done their duty—( Hear)—and those who talked else-
where of abstract principles, were the parties who had
stopped all Reform, both in Ireland and in England—
( Hear)—and they must look upon themselves as the opponents
of the tranquillity of the former country. ( Hear, hear.)
What was the next subject in the King's Speech ? The situa-
tion of the Municipal Corporations in Ireland, which his Ma-
jesty had recommended to be placed on the same footing as
those of England and Scotland. Had that becirdone ? Sn
far as regarded the House of Commons, it had done its duty,
but the House of Lords had interfered with and rossngled that
measure of local reform. They had done so, forsooth, because
the party likely to have a majority at the municipal elections
in that country were Roman Catholics, and therefore not fit
to be trusted with civil power.—(Cheers.) And, he would
ask, was such conduct to be borne ? Were such pretences
to be listened to ?—( Hear, and cheering.) He would tell
them that no liberal-minded man in England or Scotland
would do so.—( Hear.) No independent or liberal man
would listen to the argument, that because nine-tenths of tle
people of Ireland were Roman Catholics they were to be de-
prived of the management of their local affairs.—(Hear.)
As well might the Scotch, because the majority of that
country was Presbyterians, be refused municipal institutions,
on the ground that they were opposed to a Church Esta-
blishment. He contended, therefore, that the House of Lords
were responsible for all the mischief that would ensue for hav-
ing refused justice to the people of Ireland. To show the
impropriety of the proceeding on the part of their Lordships, he
would read the resolution which bad turned the Tories out of the
Government. It was the recognition of a principle which would
turn them out again. The success of the Reformers on that
occasion had shown them the advantage of union—however
different their shades of political character might be, from the
Radical to the milk-and-water Reformer, they had united
to drive the Tories out, and had succeeded.—(Cheers.) He
was rejoiced to find that the test applied on that occasion
had purged that side of the House of some of those who wished
to be thought liberal, but were only' enemies in the camp of
the Reformers ; thank God, be would say again, that that s;:ie
of the House had got rid of them.—(Loud lausfoter.)
The lion. Member read the resolution, the effect of which was
that measures should be speedily submitted tsla Parliament
for settling the question relative to the Ir;.s-h Church, em-
bodying the principle of appropriation., and for carrying into
effect all wise and necessary changes in the institutions of
the country, according to the spirt and letter of the Reform Act.
The Commons of England—the majority of that House—had
attempted to carry into effort the principles which were con-
tained in the address which turned out the Tories—that had
been the bond of union between the majority, and he hoped
most sincerely that it would continue so whatever trifling dif-
ferences might exist among them. He hoped that no one who
was a sincere Reformer would be weak enough, he had almost
said base enough, to join the Tories on account of those diffe-
rences. The Lords had prevented every amelioration—every
measure of justice which would have given satisfaction to Ire-
land. They had even interfered with, and disposed of the
Registration br Voters' Bill—they had mangled the Bill, and
so prevented the Commons from improving their own Consti-
tution, The Ministers, if they introduced half-and-half mea-
sures, with the hope of conciliating their enemies, would
act most foolishly and in vain. He hoped they would take
a lesson from experience, and now know that it was
impossible to conciliate them. The Peers had stopped all
reforms for Ireland, for England, and for Scotland. They had
thrown out every good Bill for either country, on the shabby
ground of showing that so long as Lord Melbourne led the
Government, they would riot allow the people to have the
benefit of any reforms whatever. The country wants nothing
more than a good and cheap government. Now to show this,
he had only again to advert to the case of the Post-oflic'e. Had
the present system been put an end to, a saving of 40,0001. a
year would have been effected in this department. Admitting
that the superannuations proposed to be given were all too
high still, even taking them as they stood, if the Bill were_
passed, a saving to the extent of 10,0001, would have been
made to the public. Why, on the score of mere economy,
that measure should not have been defeated. Now, whether
was it the House of Lords or the House of Commons that
stopped that measure ? Let the people of England know that
it was the House of Lords that stopped it, because they were
not aware of all the Lords had done. The Post-office Bil I
was a most important measure ; its object was to facilitate no
only internal but foreign communication ; but still it was stop-
ped, and thrown out by the Peers. A Noble and Learned
Lord, in another place, complained that no Chancery reform
had been carried, although the Noble and Learned Lord him-
self was the person who moved the rejection of the Bill
brought in by the Lord Chancellor for that purpose, and yet
he does not hesitate to accuse his Majesty's Ministers with in-
difference, when he might, if lie had thought proper, have
brought in a Bill of his own to reform the Court of Chancery.
The situation in which the Noble and Learned Lord had stood
would fully justify him in doing so ; and, therefore, it was
clear that, if blame attached to any one, the Noble and Learned
Lord was entitled to no inconsiderable share of it. There was
another ground of eomplaint urged by the Noble and Learned
Lord ageinss the Government. He complained that they had
introduced no measure for the reform of the ecclesiastical
courts, and attributed to them a degree of neglect which he
hoped they would be able to relieve themselves front early next
session. But there was another complaint of the Noble and
Learned Lord's, which was the most monstrous of any pro-
position that had ever come to his knowledge. When he
looked at the reform which had been made in the Church
Establishment, he had, he admitted, no right to say
much
about it. Nothing was given either to the people or to
the starving clergy, and yet his Majesty's Ministers
. were
weak enough, although his Majesty's recommendatrtn had'down
not been regarded, to agree to it as it had been se
to them by the Lords. Were the Commons to be stop-
ped ? Woad they allow this opposing power to go on
with-
out
e
asking the question, how long is this to continue ue ? They
might separate now, having lost a Session.— Hear, hear, from
y
(
Lord Ashley.) He charged the Noble Lord with forming
part of the opposing power. He had done all in his power to
waste the time of the House, and impede the good measures.
On behalf of the people of England, they must have Reform
in the House of Lords.—(Cheers.) He felt sorry that the
high-minded Nobles of England should be led by sixt, Than
In the rejection of awry saes
as they were. —(Cheers.) ,
was to be seen the cloven foot. Ond tam
grttuj.. he ac-
quitted the House of oair,imtnnes,
King h 4t.e!tisP'3.4 the Lords.-
I,,P.ower
if he thought pro-
( Cheers. ) The
per to exercise it,
not .at .at House in harmony with
the other, if 1;0 " ....ereise that power, the only alter-
tla.tiy. the Housessa „Ammons had was to exercise the lower
vested in them, and stop the Supplies.—(Great cheering.)
I_Teless, indeed, if an opportunity should be given, the people
should NiWil larger number of Reformers to that House—
tligl induce Noble Lords to think better of it. What were
Ftners created for ?—the public good ; and if they set themselves
against everything that be, whether at was for the public good, the question
would they should or should not continue.
Ile did not see why old and antiquated notions should prevent
a Reform in the House of Lords. The Boroughs were as
old as the Peers, yet they bad been swept away.
The Corporations wer as old as the Peers,
yet they
had been reformed. Why, therefore, should not the House
of Lords be either swept away or reformed ?—(Great cheer-
ing.) If
Ministers wished to meet the wishes of the people,
00 Clio not know whether Parliament was or not to assemble
PA November again), but if Ministers wished to meet the
wishes of the people, they would call the House together as,
soon as possible ; send up to the House of Lords the measures
they thought for the good of the public, leaving the
UM@ of Lords to do what they pleased with them, but

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