The Sun.
London, England, 1825-04-20 00:00:00

him (Mr. Dawson) to view that Gentleman's conduct with had now acquired wealth, and with that political influence. Of
great suspicion and distrust, and his knoWledge of Mr. O'Con- that influence it was impossible. to . deprive them.. We ceuld
nein talents only. -served to strengthen his wishes .more than now, as had been observed by the Honourable Member for
his conviction. lie was equally astonished at the conduct of Dr. Armagh, re-enact the penal code; and it was :impossible; to
Doyle. It was imposSible to reconcile that person's writings stand still. •We should, therefore, if We sought' for the tan-
rein his evidence before the Committee. In whatever light quillity of Ireland, go on, and grant that now willingly, which
this might be received, it must excite a lively apprehension mite::: hereafter be wrung from .us by necessity. : With respect
at the success of a cause which was advocated by a maa of his to the influencesof the propesettemeasure on the Established
ability and lent-piing, in this double Character of witness aad .ef Church, he thought that tusy measure which would tend (ate lie
author. It was without doubt well known that Dr.' Doyle was had no -doubt this would) to the tranquillity of Ireland, would
a political writer, and that some pamplets signed J. K. L., had also tend to support the Protestant religion in that country.
been sent into the country, of which he was pretty well under- Mr. NORTH said, he could not hope to add any thing to the
stood to be the anther. These pamphlets contained the grossest Persuasive; and he- was -convinced the eirectiVe eloquence of
attacks upon every thing and every body connected with Pro- those who had preceded him on his side of the ..question ; but -
teatnntism, which must excite the most lively fears of every man because he was satisfied of the connection of the subject now
who was at all attached to- the Church of England. They before the Heine with the essential interests of the country, he
breathed the most •rancorotne spirit towards-the laws, the bit- could not be satisfied to give a silent vote. He, doubtless,.
terest hatred towards the Church Establishmennand the greatest with many others, had attended to the speech of the Honour. f.
intolerance when speaking of the Catholic religion. As a Levis-. able Member for Armagh (Mr. Brownlow), and had rejoiced.
lams, he treated the laws with contempt, and designated them as in the victory obtained‘ by truth over error, while he admitted
infamous— as a Divine, he launched out into the most unmea- the candour and manliness of that Honourable Gentleman's
sured exoeessions of abhorrence, at thevery mention of any thing observations, and the arguments in which he (Mr. North)
belonging to the Chorch of England he was thrown into agonies, perfectly acquiesced. To • him it was matter of considerable
he condemned its principles, repudiated its doctrines, and ana- surprise that the eloquence that could satisfy the mind of one •
thematized
_its defenders.. When speaking of his own religion, Honourable Member, so far as to prove to him the necessity
he was arrogantand .bigoted, intolerant and overbearing. Dr. of granting the measure, had made another. Honourable
Doyle, in these pamphlets, presented ,the truest picture ola Member the more convinced of the necessity of opposing it.
most passive and adopted child of the Pope. If Dr. Doyle bad The lionoufa'ole Member for Derry (Mr. Dawson) had stated
lived in earlier times,. Pope Boniface himself could •not have. that he was utterly unable to reconcile the change of tone on
desired a more ready man to upset Ireland, and involve it in the part of 31r. O'Connell and the other leaders of the Catholic.
all the horrors of •a religious vier. But before the Committee., party—the change of tone in this country from the tone as-'
the Doctor was a different man altogether. There he was the sumed by them in their own. But he (Mr. North) would ask:
friend of Englanda-ohe admirer of the British Constitution and that Honourable Member if be could really conceive no way :
the laws, im_a_was ;Cady ,to suhearibe to every thing, saving the of accounting for this change? ;Was it not the most natural,
power of the Pope in religious matters. His answers were so was it not the most obvious, effect of the different courses that .
eloquent, so copious, -and so learned upon these matters; that had been pursued towards those_ persons when they were in Ire-.
they had produced _coneitlerableeffecte and he ( Air. Dawson) land, and when they were exstnined at the Bar of that House—
was sorry to say -a much greater effect than they deserved upon addressing theme "at one time," says Mr. Burke, in the.
the mind 'of liis lion. Friend, the Member for Armagh. But language of conciliated friends, and at another in the language'
when- the-,Commieree asked Dr. Doyle witether he• had read the of insulted and irritated foes. They had spoken in Ire-
letters signed " J. K. L."' he answered " Yes."-," Did he land when irritated by insult and injustice, and' they had
agree with the principle's contained in those letters?"—" He changed their tone the moment they were called before a Cone-
dared to:Say-lie ;diel."--q Did he agree with the principle of mittee, and examined at the Bar of the • tlonse,- in order
doing away with tiler 40a: freeholds?" Here the Doctor was to discuss the subject of what' Wouht .be -of advantage to
getting upon delicate, giohnd, for in the pamphlets ,he had their common country, and they had changed !theia 'language
exehtimedniONtlOhdlY atedishii -this 'disfranchise:neat of the Ca. because. their
,feelings and their sentiments•bad.' Changed.
thelic peasantry, .ind,- like •a. ethlful General; but mot like a They had derived a hope • of- success to their cause from their
skilful Diving, he appealed to the Committee, evaded giving persevering in this line of conduct. And what 'didothis ehenge
nrhanawee, and (without meaning; to ofl'end, said the lion. Of em-. of tone and manner -prove ? What but a foretaate of the tran-
.ber)he in a jesuitical way got rid of the question—(Laughter). quillity anti calmness that in6t be produced` by the measure
But this artifice could not succeed, for the Doctor had published they anticipated ? And if it were found that those persons had
his books;-in whiciihiS . opinions on this point were recorded, changed their feelings because of the gleam of !time that shone
and-he (Mr. -D.) Wm-Shiny his friend, the Member for Armagh upon- their cause, 'what might we not expect if the measure
haa so soon decidettitenmakintamp his mind; because, it lie had were ultimately carried, and this dawning increased more and
not done so, he (Mr. I).) would have asked_ him to read and more, unto perfect day. He could not help auguring fairly of
compare the. evidence With these letters. Hut it was not too late the cause of the. Catholics, from the arguments that had been
to Call. upon Hixeourahle Memlith-s to' do this.—(Hear, hear!) adduced by those who had that night opposed the measure, who,
lie therefore 'wooldnisk every gentleman to compare what was when the question was brought forward depending on its own
stated by Dr. Deylpio the pamphlets, anti what was said by him merits, had applied their argunients not to the general question,
before the Chminitteenandthen he would reqhest each Member but to collateral points—points that were not now before the
to. ask him Sel- how it was possible that the Doctor could be House. This course he would not follow, but would confine him-
right in both. ..It
anti
this inconsistent conduct on the part of self to the true question at issue. To the arguments used in op-
-31 ra O'Cotinellaind Dr. i)oyle .which rendered the settlement position to the bill by an Ilon, Menther (Mr. Bank-es) who.
of this great .question alinost impossible. The Catholics of spoke on the floor, he would reply as-well as he was able. That
Ireland were entireitkguided by • Dr. Doyle and Mr. O'Con- lion. Member had argued, anti his argument,. if correct, would
hell. The former: in aecelesiastical matters, and the latter in have been a very.conclusit e one—that the grievanCes complained
every thing that -related to politics. Die Doyle taught them of' by the Catholics were imaginary and uofounded: 'Now,: he,
that the Established: Church was hateful, and that theirs was wished every Member in the II ouse woitd 14_ hie hand upon
the only true' Chits lit • fie was universally beloved by the Ca- his heart, and ask himself whether or not the Catholics had
dailies, and hated hetahe Protestants. Mr. O'Connell, by the real grievances to complain of. Ho* did the laws against him
Same means, sehtlfebe against every thing that was Protestant. affect the professional man ? He would first take the country
The consequence -ofall this was, that there was scarcely a gentleman, who possessed property in the land, who distin-
Protestant in .Iceland who did not dread' that a very great guished himself on grand juries, anti acquired by his conduct
convulsion would ensue by any concessions being made to the time esteem anti love of the surrounding gentry, whatpower could
Catholics; and there was scarcely a Catholic who did not ex-- be have? What privilege could he enjoy ? In What respect was
pea some advantages .to arise to their body from these conces- his situation better than that of a forty shilling freeholder ? He
skins being made.. 'Bat the Protestants, en the contrary, dreaded would take time lawyer, who was urged to eMploy his talents and
such a measure being obtained by the hollow, dangerous, and spend the better years of his life in acquiring a profession by
deceitful conduct of their Catholic-friends now in this country, .painful and continued study, and who- had succeeded in gain-
and they could only: exnect from it the ruin and destruction Of ing the public confidence, the public esteem, and the advantages
. the Protestant cause.. -To expect peace to prevail in Ireland, which confidence and esteem bring with them, butwho, when his
or to anticipate •better things while such were the feelings and success encouraged him in aspiring to the highest honours of
opinions which taiisted, was visionary and delusive. The hie profession, found himself held back until his Protestant bro-
Catholics had determined it should not he, for they had they had overtaken him, and had passed on and taken his place
already begun to evince theirAtostile spirit. Whiehever above him. Was not this a grievance Most vexatious anti most
way, therefore, the... Protestants looked, _ they . saw nothing galling? Was it not.a grievance which no man who had the
to diminish the dangerlto arise to them from Catholic conces- spirit ofn man could bear without complaining ?_and was it
,tioD. , lie Would- liere•irefer to history to show the Concurrence not a grievance that would always create discontent and disafa
of the views of the
.Catholics of the present day with those- fection ?—Was it not a deep and a sad grievance that a man
of time past. On the 31st Maya-182-1e a • petition was presented_ might have those advantages which were sordid and mean,
to this llonee from the catholic Association. That petition while the honours attendant on his profession could never be
was sufficiently longted, complex; and contained some sweep- his—that lie might fill the offices of the money-changers in the
ing accusatiOns.of every thing that ves Protestant, which ex- Temple, but to those h'iherstations with which rank and-ho
cited even the obseFv.ndan ot' the Honourable Member himself nour was connected, he could never hope to obtain ? It had
who presented it, 'end who declined moving that it should, be been said that our Constitution was an exclusive 'Constitution :
receiva, as he -fist -a' certain conviction that the House would he (I,lr. North) did not so conceive it ;he believed it was the in-
eipteslhis coadenmation of it. ' It was a carious coincidence, tention of those who framed it, that all classes should enjoy as
that the prayer ut thetatetitien embraced the very things which, much liberty as was consistent with nationalpenee: and as to the
according th the-writer of the pamphlet signed J. K. L., were assertion that our Constitution was eiLlu-sive, he had nowhere
actually carried into effect by the Catholic Parliament of 1687. found it—he had nowhere read it. It was also said, that " You
In that year fiord Ty-rent:eel' was 'Lientenant of Ireland, who w ill be giving the Catholics political power." New political power
removed all PrOtestanhofroMaheie official situations under GO- would appear, by this argument, to mean something exceed
veymneent. • Having -•aucceeded- ire ,removing every of who ingly alarming. But what in reality was it? it was devised by law,
was a Protestant, the next attack was upon the Corporations. and ilia* it was limited.. It was acquired by thecompetitiOnof
Their Charters. wire , accordingly 'taken away. By thus dis-
.honourable men, by honourable exertions, and by the cultive-
'placing the Proteseanoca and substituting Catholics, a controul tion of intellect and the superiority of mind. Such was poli.
was 'obtained over-Parliament. The next step, therefore, was to tical power ; and what dangerous effects were toe be .appre-o
give a colour to these acts of injustice. In 1639 an election took heeded, if such powers were to be given to .tile. Roman Catho-
piece,- arid by the. pOsseesion Of all the Corporations by the Ca- lies ? But, he would ask,.have the Catholics no power ?.
tholicse. such a Parliament was obtained, that there were only What, have we not given them the power of eiciting sympathy
eight Protestant Members in the House of Commons, and in and reverence in the minds of millionsa-of eptit countrymen ?
the House of Lords there were about-4G or 47 Catholics. This Have they not a power of altering at will the tranquillity of the
Parliament passed.= -Act of Attainder, by which no, less than public mind ? Haste they not a power of embarrassing—forhe
-2,600 persons were attaintt •I of hull treason. The Parliament . might say of embarrassingeven the Government ? And yet_
of.itiB9 was adtiptedoe an example by the Catholic Association, it was said that there would be a danger in increasing that
and the reforms proposed by Dr. Doyle were precisely similar-to eawer, because it would place. two. or -three of their body as
those carried by thaoParliament. The Diocese of Dublin were Members in the House. of Commons. Yet, after all, though
placed in the hantlee of the Catholics, 'anti Piotestant school- they are in their own country giants, they would be here only
masters were prohibited from 'teaching. Several Popish Fellows . pigmies. No—the, true question was, whether. by giving them
were in the Dublin UniverSity, anti they appointed a Popish this trifling additional power, you will Make them your own, or
Priest the Provost.. As' a specimen of that reform which Dr. permit them to continue in hostility against yOu ? Whether you
Doyle had eo much. at heart, tiritt Parliament took the Univer- will bring ,them into an intimate alliance with the State, Or
sity of Dublin and 28 churches in the diocese into its own hands, permit theta still to he a 'formidable eneMy ? It was said, that
and no doubt would haye established the Catholic ascendancy, though seven centuries had elapsed since Popish domination was
if that career of that Parliament had not been stopped by,the unlimited in this country, and thought so many improvements in
battle of the Boyne.: :He could give no other definition of the everii. -art, anti in every science, had taken place since that period,
Catholic Association than that it was in all respects the Catho- the minds of the Catholics were on this sobject unchanged. If
lie -Parliament of 161190 Ile begged pardon for detaining the he could for a moment believe this, lie could only attribute it to
House so long, but he had now satisfied himself by expressing his a miracle; and a greater miracle he would contend had never
opinion on the measure now before. the House. fie was con- been left on record titan such a circumstance would be. What !
vinced that if this Bill were to he carried, instead of its giving 'this doctrine remain stedfast and unchained, when almost every
tranquillity to Ireland, it would-only have the effect of produ. thing had so materially altered, and when man had become so
• cing a succession of tutbolerice and bloodshed, which would enlightened—this doctrine, hat an individual held the right of
terminate in a religious Ware Ile,preferred die Protemtant este- unlimited sway over the minds and bodies of millions of men
blishment, because it. hiamathed It spirit of liberality towards all as highly endowed as he!: Of such a doctrine he knew and be-
other denominations-abeeause it conferred prosperity upon the lieved nothing, but he knew one thing that would answer it__
country, and because it' lied the best and wisest and most learned and - the only thing was human nature; he knew that it was
men for its friends and defenders. He (treaded Catholicism, human nature to be grateful for services performed; that it
because he thought it cherished a-spirit of intolerance, and was was human 'nature to give affection for kindness; and that it
inimical to the true interests of mankind; and he implored the was h,unian nature to give hatred for oppression. Do ewe be-
House therefore to pause
.before they determined to pass the lie‘,'e t"en that the doctrine which declared that no faith is to
, present Bill, by which that baneful spirit would be • enabled to, be odd with heretics remains unchanged ? Do we imagine that
operate against and ultimately overthrow the Government of any such settlement is held by the Catholics? What ! by the
the country. Catholics who ranked among them a Fenelon and a Pascal, and

. .
• • Lord MILTON said, that his feelings on this question, pro-
ducel by thetspeech.of.
.the lion. Member fin. Armagh, were
not at all diniinished,by theSe of the Hon. Members who fol-
lowed oil the opposite side. He was now, as he had been, an
advocate for.th.e principle :uf emancipation.- . The merits of that
question did not hang upon-the political conduct or the religious
opinions of a few, members of the Catholic body ; and in rising
4 to advocate it, he did not.stand forth as the apelOgist of the Ca-.
tholic Prelatfb „or -Itte. thictiAtes .wiiiclt. they. taught. Neither
did he tea fitinSelrbectind tO reconcile the opinions of J. K. L.
with thoSe of Dr. • D4le ' or; Mr. O'COrmell. Their con-
sistency
_wai in their eiwn. Leeping, and it was not the busi.
ness of that House to redbrfcile 'their ..differences. Leaving
those cliff:re:ices out of consideration, the
.question before
the }louse leas plair(iind 'Simple. It was, whether the cir.:
cumstances of the tines in which eve lived called for the conti-
nuance of a code, enacted in a period of civil contest,. and having
for its object, not the putting down a religion, but apolitical
party. The Honourable Member who last addressed the
notise had quoted the acts of the ParliaMent of King James in
Ireland, but he not quoted fairly, He had looked only to one
si!o. of the question. King James, it should be recollected,
was a
.monarch inclined to absolute despotism. He was one
who looked to the divine right of Kings. When lie had that
"object in view, what was more natural than that they should
endeavour to,cripple. the peewee of his adversaries. These ad-
versaries were the. Protestants. It was therefore quite natural
that he should wish to remove them froM places . of trust and
yower. But what application. had that fact to the times and cir-
cumstances of the present day ? We had now no King James,
and it was not for a moment to be supposed -that the illustrious
family now upon the throne of this-country could ever in(l,.?l.rge_
a feeling hostile to its liberties, or ever wish to make use of tile
Catholics as agents for their subversion. Rernetnbering what
_
was done by the political.a gents of King James against thetdid
testants, he. was not at all surprised at what the Protestants
When they came into power. Looking at the circumstances of the
times, he could hardly consider it 'unjustifiable.' They
were con-
sistent. the- penal. code; and whether wise or unwise,. they
*riies
st : n.
and
forT htehi Their
to bjeet w a sthto e
they
reduce
endeavouredthe
o roefat4hceei rtwhaed popvcrsa
e-
lation to p. state of purpose.barberism. In this they
Front J -f,., a
ceeded ; but those times Ware bow gone been releASC4. I fity
thogreat mass' of.the Irish people lied long . •
unfortunately
sstucte-

so many other. high and eminent ornaments of liitmari kind ?
—What ! could such be bslievcd to be the religion of our
; ' because in that
own virtuous ancestors ? No, every thing proved thit such a
ot intend tb del* 'the Houseought indeed,-
her, whether he did not feel convinced that the question hall
werebetn rot now,
gainingwhether groundi—p
not to
be conceded to the Catholics, but that it was
could be kept from them, and at what period it how
long it
would become
,necessary
.tn grant it—until what time of difficulty and danger
it could be delayed—and to what new embarrassments it must
owe its final t.,.uccess ? The people of Ireland were acquiring
and had acquired property ; to this propertyhad been added
education ; and was it now meant to
wait until to property
and to education they added power, .which might enable
them to break down the barrier that had been been raised between
them and their rights ? . Was it meant to wait until some time
of dancer and of difficulty should at
last alarm their opponents
—a tune when, concession would lose every quality of benefi-
cence—a time when concession would be given without grace,
and received without thankfulness?
that a certain degree of inconveniencelt would be vain to deny
would attend the grant-
ing of the measure ; but even there were danger, it was the
misfortune of the case that pit'
toere were six millions of Catho-
lics : even if there were
that would look to danger danger, it would be a weak policy
which was near at hand that was remote, and neglect that
distant. dan-er,
and overlook —that would point the telescope to
erlook that which was beneath the
eye. But the Catholic
and he agreed fully in the h were endowed with much power,
e opinion of the Honourable Mem-
ber for Armagh, that w
not gone far enough; the had either gone too far, or we had
we must either re-enact the penal
code with all its terrors, at
or we must do -away. altogether
with those disqualifications which still remained. He hoped and
trusted that the 11 Le 4
I, • ature would at length see the' necessity
for embark'mg in that line polio
of y which had been so earnestly.
, recoMmended by some of the best' men that had ever lived ;
that they would act on the principle that must restore peace to
Ireland, and give' so much happiness to so great a yortion, of