The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-14 00:00:00

BkxgFiT goelEvEs.

Mr. WILES p.reieicta a. petition trim the members of a
Friendly Society, Birmingham, praying for an amendment in
the leas tee sting Benefit Societies.
ASSESSED TAXES AND PROPERTY TAX.
Mr. HUNT gave notice that early in the next tessldn of Par-
liament he would submit to the Haute a pi-OpoSitioil fot the
peal of the Assessed Taxes, abd for the substitution of a fabdilied
Property Tax. •
. IRISH NO/14
_

Sir J, NEWPORT galie nOtiee that early in the next Session
he would brit* faiWar'd a illation relative to the state of the Poor
in IrelaYld.
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
HOLMES presented to the Howe a • petition from Air..
struther, against the Reform Bill; and anothq pttltioh from
certain farmers in Staffordshire,, prayie.g nit they might be
allowed to vote at the elettin a Members embers of Parliament.
MOLASSES.
Mn HO pi!elehled a petition from Wigton, against the
uto ormpiovl 111 distilleries.
Loyd CAVENDISH presented a petitiOn from Stokesley,
against the General Registration Act.
Mr. H. GRATTAN presented a petition against the Irish
yeomanry, from a parish of Kildalky, in the county of Muth.
Mr. HUME presented petitions tkOrq the hoer retailers of
London and Wolverhampton, against the proposed olteration
in the Beer Bill.
,THEE UEEN'S CHAMBERLAIN.

Mr. Ajri.E-voR, seeing the Noble Paymaster in his place,
rose fbr the purpose of asking a question. He had been informed
tat a Noble Earl bad been dispossessed of his situation as Cham-
berlain to her Majesty in consequence of his vote on the Reform
Bill in another House. He believed that appointments in the
Queen's Household had always been held apart from all politicii
feeling, and it was a memorable fact, that during the Grenville
Administration, Lord. Wildegrave, the Queen's Chamberlain.
voted against the meashres of the Government. He had been
informed, too, that Earl Howe had tendered his resignation some
days previous to the division on the Bill, stating that he would
feel it his duty to vote against it. Why it was not received then,
and had been received, since, it was not for him to say. The
Noble Earl had been-then solicited to remain, and yet, as soon
as he gave his consent, he was somewhat unceremoniously dis.
missed. In short, he considered the circumstances of the affair
were of a nature which demanded explanation, both as regarded
the House and the country.
Mr. SPEAKER asked if the Hon. Member proposed to con.
elude with any motion ?
_

•••••••••.. WV •••• • •••-••••,..... •
Mr. A. TREVOR said he did not; he only wished to put a
question.
Mr. SPEAKER suggested that he should put his question spe-
cifically, and not raise any argument on it.
Mr. A. TREVOR then asked if Earl Howe had not been dis-
missed from his situation of Chamberlain to the Queen since his
vote on the Reform Bill ?

Lord .1 RUSSELL said, in answer to the Hon. Member, that,
as far as he was informed, the Noble Earl had tendered his re-
signation since his vote on the Reform Bill, and that resignation
had been accepted.
NEW WRIT.

On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, a new writ was ordered
for the return of a Knight for the Shire of Cambridge in the
room of Sir F. Osborne, who has accepted the office of Steward
of the Chiltern Hundreds.
POLAND.

Colonel EVANS moved " An address for such information
(as early as pending negociations ,may admit) as his Majesty and
his Allies shall have obtained from the accredited agents of Rus-
sia on one hand, and of the Government of Poland on the other,
concerning the war between these States; also, in reference to
the mediation solicited by the Poles at the hands of his Majesty;
and, concerning the proposition made by the French to the Bri-
tish Government to accede to measures of mediation in conjunc•
tion, for putting an end to this contest, in virtue of being parties
to the Congress which guaranteed the national and constitutional
rights of Poland."
Lord ALTHORP could not conceive what possible object the
Hon. Member could have in moving for information on such a
variety of topics. He objected to the motion, besides, as likely
to produce inconvenience and mischief with respect the ne-
gociations then pending, and as affecting the conduct of several
States, and the relations at present subsisting between Poland
and Russia.

---
Colonel EVAN•S postpone d his motion to next session.
• PORTUGAL

Mr. P. COURTENAY telt obliged, in the present state of the
session and of the House, to postpone his motion respecting Por-
tugal. To-morrow night, however, he would ask some questions
upon the subject.
REFUSAL TO PAY RATES.

Mr. Rs TREVOR called the attention of the House to an
Advertisement in the Times of the 7th of this month. The ad-
vertisement was of a most contemptible kind, and he should treat
it with great contempt. It was In these terms :—" That this
Committee acknowledges with the utmost gratitude the exer-
tions of his Majesty's Ministers in favour of the Bill for the bet-
ter regulation of Vestries, &c. now before Parliament ; and as
the success of that excellent measure is no longer doubtful, it is
the opinion of this Committee that the meeting of the inhabitant
householders of this parish, for the purpose of taking into consi-
deration thepropriety of withholding the payment of all parochial
rates under the Select Vestry system, as advertised in the
nines, Morning Chronicle Morning Herald, and Morning
Advertiser on the 23d orSeptember la t, should be po,t-
poned, and in the mean time the Committee recom-
mended to the householders not to uphold the payment
of such of the rates as may have become due." If these
things were suffered it would be impossible that that House, or
any-other, should exist as a deliberative assembly, for they would
always be dictated to by any tumultuous body of persons. He
trusted that these things would be put a stop to, for such adver.
tisements were most unjustifiable. The Hon. Member having
made some further observations, then moved a resolution—
" That the course adopted by certain persons in the parish of St.
James's, Westminster, in holding out a threat of withholding
the payment of taxes, is a glaring violation of the privileges of
Parliament—a most improper attempt to intimidate the Members
of that House from doing their duty—mischievous in its exam-
ple, and likely to be pernicious in its effects."
Mr. HUME was rather astonished that an Hon. Gentleman
who professed to treat such a matter as only deserving of con-
tempt, should yet think it necessary to bring the proceeding be-
fore that House.--(Hear, hear.) He differed from the Hon.
Member in his opinion of what attention was due to the pro
ceedings of parishes. It might be safe to assume such a tone
towards a meeting of only one or two hundred men, but when a
parish consisting of one hundred and fifty thousand people came
to a certain resolution upon any matter under their considera-
tion, to say that they were to be treated with contempt, did ap-
pear to him to be riding the high horse with a witness. During
the last five years the people had been complaining of Select
Vestries, as they complained of the want of Parliamentary Re-
form, and their complaints ought to be attended to. As to this
motion he thought it was unworthy the time of the House.—
(Hear, tear.) What was the effect of this advertisement ? The
Hon Member did not seem to know what he was bringing before
the House. The people of St. James's only said that they had
threatened what the people of Marylebone had actually done.
He trusted that these measures adopted by the parishes would,
however, be no longer necessary, for that a disposition was shown
to meet their wishes, but lie must deny that what had been re-
solved on by them was illegal.
s Mr. J. CAMPBELL agreed with the Hon. Member for Mid-
dlesex, that this subject was not worthy of occupying the time of
Parliament, but he must disagree with him as to the legality of
the resolutions adopted at these meetings. While the select
vestries existed, they were warranted by the law of the land,
and the rates which they levied ought to be paid. These parishes
set a bad example of combinations to place themselves above
the law.
Mr. HUME said, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in
his idea of right, was quite wrong. There were two modes of
satisfying the law; the inhabitants were bound to pay in money
or in goods. If a man did not choose to pay in money, but was
rather determined, like the Quakers, to pay in goods, he might
do so—there was nothing illegal in his suffering his goods to be
taken in payment.
Mr. JAMES GORDON sa'd, the course defended by the Hon.
Member for Middlesex was a bad example to all people.
Sir J. CAM HOBHOUSE said, that the parish of St. James
was of course much flattered by the notice bestowed upon them
by the Hon. Member opposite ; but he had really thrown away
much good Indignation in getting angry with them.—(A laugh.)
Why if the .advertisement were so bad as the Hon. Member
seemed to consider it, the proper person to be punished was the
compositor, who should be called to the bar for a misprint.—( A
laugh.) The advertisement, so far from recommending the non.
payment of taxes, actually recommended the payment of them,
and postponed indefinitely a meeting that had been advertised
to be held for a different purpose. The Hon. Baronet here read
the advertisement, and observed, that in the Times the words
were misprinted thus, not to uphold the payment" instead of
" not to withhold the payment."
Mr. It. TREVOR said, the part of the advertisement he ob-
jected to, was that which said that " as the success of the measure
was no longer doubtful," the parishioners were recommended
not to withhold the payment of the rates, as if they would have
been justified in doing so, had the measure not been 1 kely to be
successful.
Sir J. CAM HOBHOUSE said that if the advertisement went
to recommend the people not to refuse the payment of taxes, he
hardly knew what the Hon. Member had to complain of. The
meeting was, in fact, convened for that purpose; and there pre-
' sided at it a gentleman named Motile, of high professional cha-
racter and ability—(Hear, hear)—who had taken that means in
order to divert the parishioners from adopting the other course,
of which he had heard rumours. . .

111r...jAMES GORDON, in explanation, thought the motion
had been respecting a positive resolution taken in the parish.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON asserted that the refusal to pay. rates
was illegal—ft was, in fact, a high misdemeanour—it was a most
dangerous practice to resort to—it was subversive of all the
principles of Government, and, if persisted in, might be destruc-
tive of society itself.—(A stranger in the gallery, on hearing this,
cried out " Bravo." He was immediately taken into custody.)
If that principle should be acted on, it would be necessary for the
Government to use the power of the law, and enforce payment.
Mr. ROBINSON was surprised that the House should have
/heir time occupied by such a sul ject The meeting referred to
in the advertisement did nothing, and yet the Hon. Member now
called on the House for a resolution as to the object of a meeting
after that meeting had been indefinitely postponed, and he asked
the House to declare that that which might have been proposed
had the meeting not been postponed, was calculated to intimidate
Members of that House from doing their duty.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUNT said.that.the recommendation to refuse payment
of taxes was the recommendation of the public Press, and now
appeared to be sanctioned by the Hon. Member for Middlesex.—
.He read a letter from. Bath, in which the -writer said he was
afraid to distrain for taxes. •
Mr. HUME had .nothing to do with Bath.
Mr. HUNT answered, that the recommendations of the Hon.
Member given in parish meetings had to do with Bath. The
question was whether 150,000 men were to be allowed to meet
together and come to such a resolution as this. The proposition
was not a Radical proposition—the Radicals never had resolved
not to pay taxes—it was a.Whig proposition,—it came in with the
Bill, the Whig Bill that the Radicals never would be satisfied
with. Somebody had forged his name to a letter, written for the
purpose of carrying this scheme of refusing to pay taxes into
execution. He then accused the Noble Lord (Althorn) of writing
a letter which lett the proposal not to pay taxes uncondemned.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON had not given the Whigs a drubbing,
for he did not agree with the Hon. Member in thinking that they
had originated this proposition. The letter of the Noble Lord
was an express disapprobation of it.
Lord V ALLETORT thought that these measures were to be
ascribed to the Whigs. He did not mean to say that if tumults
took Place, or resistance to the Government was attempted, the
Ministers would not put them down ; he was sure they would,
and proposed,
must say that he thought much of what was now done
but he
that that language w.(-isna
was th consequence of their language. He knew
that
it
wastioir:ll to them ; they had been so long
in opposition,
direct attacks against the Constitution, lie
of their old habits to
117. implored them to
introduce seine safe measure of Refonnn. they would do so,
he would, though he crossed the floor alone, at once the
floor to support them. With respect to the late majoritycr ins he

House of herds, he thought it most unjustifiable to call the bpi.
nion of that majority the whisper of a faation, and he believed
that if the Bishops and those Peers who had a direct interest in
hot-toughs had been excluded; there would still have been a majo-
rity against the Bill. The Peers had nothore interest than other
men in maintaining abuses. It was too bad to say that the Bill
was 'thrown Out from corrupt motives.
Mr. O'CONNELL said it, was a most Unfounded charge as ever
was made, that it was the intention of the Ministers to indute the
people to refuse to pay taxes.—(Hear.) It Wad hot the act of the
'Reforthersit was the act of the Anti-Reformers. It was their
vexations ttpposition to the Bill—their opposition to the spirit of
the pebple, by delay, by frivolous pretexts, by motions made every
hour, every day, and every month, for the purposes of delay.
Did they think that the people would bear this for ever P They
had endured the delay most patiently, from tlre Certainty, as they
hoped, that the measure would be sticeessful after some delay,
and now. that hope iVai at ah end, by the foolish and absurd re-
jeetlon tit Hilt:popular measure. These were the reasons of the
popular excitement. Hon. Members talked of the institutions of
the country. Were the rotten boroughs the institutions of the
country; and was it they who called on the Government to sus,
pend the measure, that what the people endured so long they
might endure yet longer P He trusted that the .people would
soon obtain what they deserved==a full tepresentatibn in that
House. The Engl,tsli nation ..had often been c6Mpared to the
lion; and if Hod; Mernbeis ttionght that Englishinen were to.
tally titardles§ 'Of the maim& in whin their most earnest wishes
were rejected, they Would find themselves mistaken—they would
find the truth of that expression which they had heard so often,
irce Leonum vincla recusantum." He warned them not to put
matters to such an extremity. He earnestly hoped that the
people would be peaceab'e ; their opponents must be beaten hy
that mode of conduct: the people must and roO ti tarry the
measure without violating the laer; the people of Ireland had in
that manner beaten their oppressors, without a single assault,
witifolit breaking a pane of glass, and in spite of the interested
opposition and strong party spirit that would have forced them
into such measures; they kept the peace if they did not keep
their tempers.—(A laugh.) The people of England were perfectly
competent to follow that example. He hoped they would not
violate the law. He was not surprised that they had shown sotpe
degree of warmth at their disappointmeht: What had been the
discussions on the Bill F Et ery pact of the Bill, but that in
which they Arem hail been the subject of discussion. Three
months had been spent in that manner. The opposite party had
had their triumph of delay, but it was only a triumph of delay,
for the King's Government could bring in the Bill again, and
the Anti-Reformers would not have the power to reject it. They
had indulged their self-flattery—they had said that the people did
not care for the Bill, and that the Bill was destructive to the
Constitution; and they had repeated these things *sot ad
nauseam. They talked now of this recommendation not to pay
taxes amounting to treason. He *Mild tell them that, if this
measure was carried, any man might be left to talk high treason
as he pleased, for the people of England will totally disregard it;
but until it was carried it would be in vain to attempt to strangle
their cries of indignation. The people ought to keep within legal
bounds. The success of the great measure depended on the people
—on their keeping their acts and expressions within the channels
of the law, and on their not having recourse to any Violence what,
ever. Feeling this, and seeing how utterly improper is the in,
troduction of this debate at this moment, he hoped the Ministers
would not condescend to give any further answer respecting
the letter than that which they had given last night.—(Hear,
hear.) Who was to dispute whether it was the whisper of a fac-
tion that had rejected the Bill ? If the people Were for the Bill,
the whisper of a faction must be on the other side,—there could
be no faction on both sides,—the faction must be on the one or
the other, and if it was disputed that the people were in favour
of the Bill, his answer was, that that question would be very
shortly settled.
The SPEAKER recalled the attention of the House to the real
question before it, by reading the motion.
Sir C. WETHERELL asked whether, in point of form, he
could bring on the motion of which he had given notice, before
other notices of motions were disposed of ?
The SPEAKER observed, that the practice of the House had
been to take the notices of motions in the order in which they
stood on the parser ; otherwise the paper would be of no use.
Sir C. WETHERELL would not endeavour to break through
the ordinary rule, but he apprehended, nevertheless, that he
could bring on his motion as an amendment to the proposition
already in the hands of the Speaker. Being himself a man, stric-
tissims Arts, and most anxious for the preservation of order in
the House, but especially out of it, he would be the last to be
guilty of any breach of it. He saw the sardonic smiles and self-
satisfactory gestures on the other side, but he disregarded them,
as well as the intimations of Members physically sitting on the
Opposition side of the House, intellectually with Ministers. One
of them had talked of the British lion—

Mr. ROBINSON spoke to order ,• but we did not collect thepoint
he made, excepting that he called upon the Right Hon. Gentle.
man to state what course he intended to pursue.
The SPEAKER decided that the Right Hon. Gentleman was
not required by any rule of the House to detail in the outset what
course he meant to take.

Mr. ROBINSON submitted that the Right Hon. Gentleman
was out of order, as his speech did not apply to the question be.
fore the House.
Sir C. WETHERELL had heard of a man with a hand and a
glove, but here he saw neither hand nor glove, which
was the more extraordinary, as the Honourable Gentleman
represented the city of Worcester, famous for its manufacture of
manual integuments. The Hon. Member for Kerry had talked
of the British lion. He (Sir C. Wetherell) wished to know
whether, under the figure of the lion, was to he included the
rabble—the lawless multitude—who dragged Noblemen from their
carriages, insulted them, and knocked them down ?—(Cheers.)
He appealed to English gentlemen, whether the Hon. Member
for Kerry was not the only person in the country, who would
think of resembling the dastardly attack upon an Irish Noble-
inn to the magnanimous conduct of the British lion ? He hoped
to hear no more of such cowardly attributes, and he believed that
it was not dictated by any kindred feeling. It was no part of
the character of an Irishman to be a coward; it was no part of
the character of an Irishman to head a mob. Upon recollection
he must retract that assertion—(Laughter)—but he would add,
that it was no part of the character of an Irishman to attack a
man who could not defend himself.—(Hear, hear.) Would any
Irishman mix himself up with such a base, cowardly, dastardly
attack as that in which the British lion, according to the Hon.
Member for Kerry, had been so recently concerned?—(No, no,
murmurs.) The Hon. Gentleman who had called him to order,
was one of those who sat with the Opposition and voted with
the Ministers ; lie was one of those whose real presence was in
the camp of the enemy ; and by an extraordinary metamorphosis,
or metempsychosis, whose intellects and interests were in favour
of Ministers. He wished that Hon. Members would sort and
arrange themselves properly ; it would prevent many interrup-
tions ; and it was certainly not according to the courtesy of the
House in better and genteeler times than the present. Whether
Members had advanced in patriotism, he could not say, but as-
suredly in gentlemanly feeling and in gentlemanly conduct they
had retrograded.—(Cheers.) The amendment with which he
should conclude was materially connected with the question be-
fore the House. There were two subjects well deserving the at-
tention of Ministers :-1..A treasonable conspiracy to prevent the
payment of taxes, with a person concerned in which conspiracy
two Members of the Cabinet had corresponded. 2. An attack
upon the persons and property of all Peers who had constituted
the majority against the Reform Bill. His motion related to an
attack upon the property of the Duke of Newcastle. Here be
begged to state, in the presence of the King's mute Attorney-
General, and for the information of the Hon. Member for Mid-
dlesex, that a resolution adopted in any place for the refusal of
the payment of taxes was illegal, and that if connected with
what the law meant by the words, " a general purpose," it was
treasonable : to enter into a combination for the non-payment of
taxes was a misdemeanour, and if it amounted to a general pur-
pose it was high treason. At the meeting of 150,000 persons, at
Birmingham, with the Chairman of which Noble Lords opposite
had corresponded, the resolution was to considerethe propriety of
resisting the payment of taxes.—(" No, no," from Lord Althorp.)
The resolutions were printed, and the letters of .the Noble Lord
were printed, so that it was easy to refer and decide the point,
and of this he was convinced, that the letters constituted a parti-
cipation in the crime. At Nottingham a building belonging to
the Duke of Newcastle, though not now inhabited by his family,
had been destroyed by fire, and he put it to any man whether
that event had occurred from any other cause than that the Duke
of Newcastle had voted against the Reform Bill. The Member
for Middlesex had called this a trifling affair ; he who magnified
into such importance, savings of three farthings, and a penny
three farthings ; who, in his last economical speech, had recom-
mended, for this purpose, that the navy should be fed with bad
biscuit and sour pork—had asserted that the burning down of the
Castle of Nottingham was a trifle ;—would he say that the crime
of arson, connected with the destruction of dumber Hall, would
have been a trifle ? The Attorney-General, as Member for Not-
tingham, might be supposed to be in possession of good informa-
tion on this subject ; but all he (Sir C. W.) had learnt, established
that the Castle and its Noble owner had been assailed personally,
only because he had voted against the Reform Bill.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL remarked across the table,
that nothing had been done against the person of the Duke of
Newcastle.
Sir C. WETHERELL did not require to be told that the
Duke of Newcastle was in London at the time ; but this he
knew, that the Reformers of London were not unmindful of his
residence in Portman-square, at the time when the Reformers of
Nottingham burnt his Castle there. He should be glad to learn
from the mute Attorney-General, if he had recovered his speech,
why a Special Commission should not issue on the present occa-
sion ? Gentlemen might be disposed to treat this subject as
lightly as the Hon. Member for Middlesex. The burning of the
Duke ofNeweastle's property seemed scarcely worthy the atten-
tion of Ministers. When he recollected that the Press—to
which some ofthe leading Members of Government were under-
stood to be in the habit of daily contributing—(Cheers)—threat-
ened the torch to the property of the opponents of the Bill—
when he saw that threat carried into fearful execution—when he
saw Cabinet Ministers corresponding on friendly terms with
those who conspired to refuse to pay taxes—how could he feel
any confidence that an equal protection would be extended to
the property of their opponents as to that of their supporters ?
He plainly and deliberately avowed that he had no such confi-
dence. In his opinion, twenty-four hours ought not to be al-
lowed to elapse before the most vigorous steps were taken to
bring the offenders to justice. He publicly asserted, that the
due Administration of the law would be egregiously neglected
if the Duke of Newcastle were not placed on "the same foot-
ing of protection as any other individual.—(Hear, hear, from•
the Attorney-General.) He was glad that the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had recovered his voice sufficiently to be able to cheer;
and by hischeer he supposed it was meant to be said that Govern.
ment would wait until some of the property of Reforming Noble-
men—the Marquis of Lansdowne, or the Duke of Devonshire, had
been attacked by the populace.---(No, no!) If he did not mean
that, perhaps by and by he would venture to break silence so far
as to let the House know what was his proposition. He (Sir C.
Wetherell) asserted, that for the last six weeks the main object
of the Press, of speeches in Parliament, and of speeches out of
Parliament, had been to direct the popular vengeance against
those who resisted Reform. This he laid down as an undeniable
proposition. Perhaps the Noble Member for Northamptonshire
(Lord Althorp) had read the speech of his Noble Colleague, de-
livered at Sheffield, wherein it was said that the Peers created by
George the Third, George the Fourth, and later, were those by
whom the Reform Bill had been thrown out.. He (Sir Charles
Wetherell) hardly knew whether the Spencer Peerage was there
included; whether it was of feudal origin, or whether it lay in
medio between the two. Lord Grey had certainly been created
by George the Third, and—a mull° fortiori—such Peers as Lords
Dinorben, Panmure, and Seagrave were included. None of
these were certainly equal in antiquity and in virtue with the
Wentworths and Russells. It had been said yesterday, that
all these discussions were to be deprecated, and if the At-
torney-General would give him an assurance that a Special
Commission should be issued, he was willing at once to forego
them ; but at present he saw no reason to expect that the
property of the foes of Ministers would be protected like the
moperty of their friends. He had seen quite enough to make
him believe that the popular excitement was made use of by
Ministers for purposes of their own ; and even this day he had
read in the nest spapers a dialogue between the Woolsack and
the people, which tended to confirm all his suspicions. It was
to have been expected that the Lord Chancellor, the head of the
Magistracy, as he called himself, would have told the people that
violence must be suppressed—that criminals must be instantly
brought to trial—that the strong arm of the law must be out-
stretched without a moment's delay. Had he so told the people?
No, no. The dialogue breathed only the same placid spirit of
calmness as the letter of the Noble Lord.—(Cheers.) He in-
tended to move an amendment to the motion, and he appre-
hended that he had a right to do so.—(Murmurs from the Mini-
sters.) He appealed to the Chair ; he had a right to submit his
amendment--(No, no; yes, yes
move, move.) He did not
charge Ministers with promoting the attacks already made, but
he did charge them with conniving at them. The burning
and destruction of property was recommended by the Min_i
•sterial Press, and mutiny and treason among the army was
urged in the speeches of the coadjutors of Ministers at Bir-
mingham, whatever might be said to' the contrary by a me-
taphysical Paymaster of the Forces. If vigorous measures
were not taken, the Duke of Newcastle's would not be the
last properti, destroyed ; and he said so, because the Noble
Lord at Sheffield had especially pointed. out Lord Wharf-
(effete who was called a Peer of the other day, and in no re-
spect equal to the Wentworths and the Russells. A more nits-
ch ievous speech than that of the Noble Lord's was perhaps never
uttered, All he (Sir C, Wetherell) asked, was equal justice to

all parties—that the Anti-iteformets should be protectCd as well
as the Reformers,
.and that the guilty should be speedily tried
and condignly punished. Without a Special Commission, March
was the earliest date at which any punishment could be in-
flicted upon such as had been concerned in these scandalous
aggressions upon property. warranted bj the political tyranny
of the times. As men of lionotit, theretOre, and not as Minis.
tens only—as Noblemen and as leaders of a political party, they
were bound to protect the property of the Duke of Newcastle.—
(Cheers.) From those posthumous cheers, he was quite satisfied
that he had virtually carried his motion—that it would not be
resisted, and he should therefore submit, as an amendment,
" That an humble address be presented to his Majesty, praying
that a Special Cdtriniissicin should be lashed With all convenient
despatch, ti to the Offenders engaged in the burning and de.
struction of Nottingham Castle, and in other outrages and acts
of violence in that neighbourhood."
The amendment having been seconded, it was read from the
Chair.
Mr. O'CONNELL hoped it would not be considered pre:
sumptuous if he °fibre a ft-W vverds after what had been said by
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir C. Wetherell). That Right Hon.
Gentleman had taken upon himself not only to misrepresent,
but to lecture him upon three points—First, for sitting on the
Opposition side pf the House, when it was honoured with his
(Sir C. Wetherell's) Presence also, Not Very long sine., the Right
lion. Gentleman had called the Opposition sitle of the House a
mountain, and he ought to recollect that he (Mr. O'Connell) had
taken his seat upon it long before he (Sir C. Wetherell) had vi-
sited it. Mahomet had therefore come to the mountain, and not
the mountain to Mahomet.—(Cheers and laughter.) Mahomet,
too, had exhibited himself on this occasion in one of the most
grotesque Of His *otilit-be inspiretljolaraityams.(Much laughter.)
Tile sedond Charge against him (Mr, O'Connell) was. a want of
gebtility. Of all men, the charge of being ungenteel dame most
strangely from the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Cheers.) In what
school of politeness had he taken his degrees ?—(Cheers.) Where
was the dancing-master for grown gentlemen, by whose instruc-
tions he had so much profited ?—(Cheers.)Who was the Right
Hon. Gentleman's arbiter elegantiarum I—(Cheers and laugh.
ter.) When he talked of gentility. He (Mr. O'Connell) wished
retaind him, that as Dr. JohnsOn had said that " The Devil
was the first Whig," so Shakspeare had told us that the Devil
was the first gentleman—
" The Prince of Darkness is a gentleman,
Wethcrall his name, and Rotherall."
(Continued laughter and cheers.) If he (Mr. O'Connell) re-
mained near him, he might catch something from him.—(Great
laughter.) He had no such allusion. He did not mean his
gentry, but his gentility • he was in hopes that he should obtain
some little infusion of that accomplished and courteous manner
for which the Right Han. Gentleman was so remarkable. He
had also accused him (Mr. O'Connell) of having approved of the
.base, dastardly, and cowardly attack Made yesterday on an Irish
Nobleman. Never was any accusation more unfounded Ante the
days of gentility were first invented, and nothing so contrary to
what he had said.—(Cheers.) Had he stood the supporter of
every akuse, and the determined opponent of every improvement
—had he resisted every attempt to facilitate the administration
of justice—had he continually laboured to shut out the en.
lightenment of modern knowledge from the obscurities of ancient
law—hkd he occupied the time sif-the House with a sort of rol-
licking rhodothantade night after night—(Heart and laughter)—
had it been his habit to make people laugh at him. when he pos.
sessed not the wit to make people laugh with him—he might
have deservedly been the object of the illiberal attack just made
upon him.—(Loud cheering.) In.the speech just addressed to the
House, Government were accused of wilfully permitting the
disgraceful outrages which had recently taken place. For his
part, although he thought that the gallant Nobleman who had
been assailed was mistaken in his political opinions, no man
could desire more than he did to see the persons brought to
justice who had made that atrocious attack. But the orgiinal mo-
tion before the House referred to certain resolutions of the inha-
bitants of theparish of St. Pancras; and from that subject they
had been turned off to the outrages at Nottingham. Did either
of the gentlemen, the Hon. Mover, or the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman below him—or did any man imagine that his Ma-
jesty's Government would hesitate to inquire respecting every
such riot or illegal proceeding ? 'What grounds were there for
supposing that they would neglect their duty.—(Hear.)
Lord ALTHORP—The Hon. and Learned Gentleman.—
(" Speak out," from the Opposition.) Is that the manner in which
the Hon. Gentleman means to set an example to Hon. Gentle-
men on this side of the House for their behaviour here. The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman charged the Government with
acting partially in protecting the persons and property of those
who support, and not of those who oppose, them.—(" No, no,"
from Sir C. Wetherell.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman says
" No."

Sir C. WETHERELL—What I said was, that I hoped they
would not act so —(oh, oh, and hear.)
Lord ALMORP—WeII, then, he only insinuated—(Hear)—
that because the Duke of Newcastle had voted against the Re-
form Bill, his Majesty's Government would not protect that
Nobleman's property, as they protected the property of those who
voted for it.—(Sir C. Wetherell—No.) That was certainly the
insinuation; and I could not have thought that it would have been
assented to by any other gentleman in that House, if I had not
heard it cheered by one other.—(Hear, hear.) But Sir, I will
say, that the present Members of Government are as determined
as any set of men could be, to maintain the laws and to protect
property from outrage: and I should think it hardly necessary
to defend myself for one moment from such a charge, or to deny
that he was capable of making such a distinction. The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman accuses us of conniving at the disturb-
ances. Does he feel sny thing in his own breast—(Cheers)—
which makes him' believe that any gentleman—l will not say
employed in his Majesty's service—but mixing in the society of
gentlemen, would connive at confusion, bloodshed, and arson.—
(Vehement cheering.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman in
the commencement of his speech accused my Ncble Friend (the
Member for Devonshire) and myself of participating in a treason-
able misdemeanour. _

Sir C. WETHERELL—I say so again.—(Cheeri.)
Lord ALTHORP—Then, Sir, I say, that if he thinks as he
says, it is his duty to proceed against us by articles of impeach-
ment —(Cheers.) He says that we do not intend to give equal
protection to those who voted for us and those who voted against
us : and then, when we denied that we had so base an intention,
he said that he supposed we meant to wait until we saw the
House of a Reformer burnt.—(Loud laughter from some Member
on the Opposition side, followed by cries of "order," from all
parts of the House.) The conduct of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman is so strange, that I am at a loss to know how to apply
myself to his observations. I must say, however, that it en-
tirely takes away from me every feeling of anger.—(Cheers.)
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman says that he will not perse-
vere in his motion, if we assure him that we will procure a
Special Commission. Now, Sir, I will give him no such assur-
ance, as that must rest altogether in the discretion of his Ma-
jesty's Government.—(Cheers.) But of this I will assure him,
that the property of every person shall be protected to the utmost
extent of the power which the Government constitutionally can
make use of—(Cheers)—and I think that we may refer to our
former conduct as an earnest of what we will do when occasion
may require.—(Hear.) In the last Session the Hon. Gentleman
approved of our conduct in sending down a Commission to the
districts that had been disturbed.—(Hear.) The fact is, that we
did so as soon as we could—as soon as the machinerycould be pre-
pared. Not a moment was lost.—(Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman has
alluded to the speech of a Noble Friend ofmine. But no gentle-
man who has been in this House for the last three months but
must know that I cannot be called upon to answer for the lan-
guage now attributed to my Noble Friend, who has so frequently
been heard to say the very contrary to that which the Hon.
Gentlemen now charges him with saying.—(Hear.) A Noble
Lord opposite says, that if we would introduce a measure so mo-
dified as to meet his wishes, he would no longer oppose us. But,
Sir, I think that if we were to modify the Reform Bill in any de-
gree, that would render it less efficient. So far from that being a
means of promoting the peace of the country it would have the
very contrary effect.—(Hear.) I, at least, never will be a party to
any such measure.—(Cheers.) I shall not longer detain the
House. I rose to speak upon some observation which had in
some degree excited my indignation. That feeling having
subsided, I have no disposition to say another word upon the
subject.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
Mr. GILLON said, that as allusion had been made to the lan-
guage of the Whig newspapers, he would take the liberty of re-
ferring to a Tory newspaper, which says, that for principles less
revolutionary than those of his Majesty's Ministers a large num-
ber of men, women, and children had been trampled down by the
horses of the yeomanry.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Hunt.) lb
those gentlemen who charged the Government with having ex-
cited the people on the subject of Reform he would say, that it
was the system of misrule which these gentlemen themselves
supported that had led to the inevitable necessity of Reform.—
(Hear, hear).
- -

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought that what fell from
his Noble Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was quite
ts tti,
ethyc.tGo reyn,ear
antd, s h)
na
et
et
eh,
se
air
yI o use
connectionwould, feewl, tt
hfraonmy hpi
proceedings
which might be adopted, that it was not expedient for him to
enter into the discussion of any speculative point of law.—(Hear,
hear.) With regard to the law on the subject, to which the
motion referred, as it had been down in both Houses of Par-
liament, he did not think that any lawyer, or indeed any well
educated man, could have the least doubt. When his Noble
Friend said that his Majesty's Government would, use all the
power of the laws to protect property, he did not think that it
was necessary to carry the discussion further.—(Hear. hear,)
With regard to the Special Commission, he did not think that
such a measure should be resorted to on every occasion on which
an outrage might have 'taken place. When there was occasion
for such a departure from the usual course of the adinini-
stration of the laws—when riots were occurring in many parts
of the country—his Noble Friend, the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, came into the Court of King's Bench, and said to him,
that the first act of the Government must be to send him (the
Nillottty
was now very nearly restored.—(H-
Mthat bterranfoqru
. ear ) The force used there
tAintgtobrnamey,-Gbeenwearsal)hdapopwyn
ttooasliiticehtehseterH.
ouAsse
had been quite sufficient to restore order and to put down vio-
lence. When the disposition to riot was first manifested the
cavalry were absent at Derby, where he was sorry to say, the
excesses were much greater than at Nottingham. Before a suf-
ficient force could be collected in the latter place, the Castle was
burnt. But immediately the Magistrates, assisted by the respec-
table inhabitants, acting as special constables, spppressed the
riot; and he thought that a recurrence of the excesses was ex-
tremely improbable.
Sir C. WETHERELL—I am very glad to hear it.
The ATTORNEY.GENERAL—The people who perpetrated
the outrages had not been taken up, so that if a commission were
sent down, there would be no one to be tried. The stragglers
who had been taken into custody would be tried at the ensuing
Assizes. In the words of a Noble Lord who'had just lett the
House, he would implore Hon. Gentlemen not to look back upon
what had passed, f.r the sake of reviving topics of exasperation,
but to look to such measures as might ensure the future peace of
the countrv.—(Cheers.)
Mr. GOULBURN concurred in the concluding sentiments of
the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General. He would give Go-
vernment his utmost support in all measures calculated to pre-
serve the peace of the country.
Mr. GORDON though there never had been made, upon any
Member of that House, a more revolting attack than that which
the Member for Kerry had made upon his Hon. and Learned
Friend, the Member for Aldborough.
Mr. HUME denied that the language used by his Hon. and
Learned Friend (Mr. O'Connell) in reply to the attack made
upon him, was uncalled for or revolting.—(Hear.)
Mr. GRATTAN vindicated Ministers from the unfounded at-
tacks which had been made upon them ; nor did he believe that
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who made those attacks really
thought what he said.—(Order, order) If he were serious, he
ought to have impeached the Ministers.—(Cheers.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman had said that Irishmen were not cowards. But
if he (Sir C. Wetherell) wished to show his courage, he would
not single out for his attacks a roan who, he knew, was bound up
from resenting them.—(Cheers, and loud cries of " Order.")
The SPEAKER was in hopes the Hon. Member would himself
have perceived the impropriety of the language he was using
without being called to order by the House.—(Hear.)
Mr. GRATI'AN had only spoken hypothetically. He had
only said if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman really wished to
give proof of his courage.--(Order. order.)
The SPEAKER trusted that the Hon. Gentleman would per-
ceive that he should not evade the strict order of the House by
natwonaoso:heairnugginreceantuetlrds
ebebrieneacdmc hotrooefhoimr
using such an hypothesis.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GRATTAN thought that the allusion which the Hon. and
Learnedolow
or
Lord
ißy
.aMemberhEaNt
tmEh aLei I
Ice_
,h
ttaohr
ogluer
gi
againsts
thought
tm he
der than his (Mr. Grattan's) hypothesis. He would, however,
to be whollyy, unfounded. , •
un-
fair than the attack made upon his Hon. and could
Friend.
mea-
sureslde
h.ospiehoped
that
.t
H theo calculated
BHHouo s
ue preservetswoEouwldo usel
dept
the
het eit
propriety
oul public did not think that the Government had resorted to the
playing too Much into the hands of the populace.—(Hear.)
becoming to speak in such terms of a man who was absent ? He
pNoefoacbee Lord,
Theyreturning wast
ow tehri cet
parish of St James's, from which they had set out.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUNT thought it. strange,that Ministers had not taken
care to secure the incendiaries. lie did not say that they had en.
coura,"ed the rioters but the language held out by the Govern-
ment Press was calculated to encourage outrage.—(Cheers.)
Sir C. WETHERELL rose to explain, but after a short con-
versation with the Speaker, the Attorney-General and Sir John

Newport, the Hon. and,Learned Gentleman said :—Then I shall
leave the matter as it is.
The question was then put upon the amendment, which was
lost ; and when the original motion was put,
Lord ALTHORP moved the previous question ; typereupon
Mr. Trevor withdrewßANKß his motion.
UPTCY COURTS' BILL.

On the motion of the ATTORNEY.GENERA.L the debate
upon the second reading of the Bankruptcy Courts' Bill was re-
sumed.
Mr. G. BANKES wished to know from the lion. and Learned
Gentleman opposite whether it was intended to introduce a Bill
supplementary to the Bankruptcy Court Bill, and whether it was
In contemplation to add a clause giving 2,000/. a year additional
retiring salary to the Lord ChanCellat ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied, that there was nil in.
tendon of proposing any additional retiring salary to the Great
Seal. As to a supplementary Bill, he could not say that any-
thing had yet been determined on thatpoint.
Mr. PEMBERTON, afterdefending the motives of those who
opposed the Bill, proceeded to observe, that under it the relief
from the expenses of appeals. and the inconveniences and delays
to which they give rise, would net be at all felt. The number of
appeals and the number of Courts necessary to appeal to could
never be materiallydiminished in a civilized country-4n a country
not content to submit to the decision of a single, final, and ar-
bitrary Court. Proceeding from these considerations to the ap-
pointment of Judges under the new Bill, he observed that it
would be a great advantage—one alike agreeable to the profession
and calculated to promdte the chief ends for which the Court was
established—if those appointments Were chiefly taken from the
old lists. He next called the attention of the House to the
state and operation of the Vice-Chancellor's Court, contending
that it was capable of being made to serve all the purposes which
could be desired by tliose who aimed at improvements in the ad-
ministration of the Bankruptcy Laws—one ground upon which
some Hon. Members might doubt the expediency of making such
wide and sweeping alterations in a matter in which no clung)
was called for by the trading classes of the community. The
whole plan and scope of the measure was to create an extensive
amount of patronage—not that he imputed that motive to the
Noble and Learned Lord who at present held the Great Seal;
but such, he would maintain, was the tendency of the measure
—it would lead, he affirmed, to a most gross and scandalous
system of jobbing, especially as respected the appointment ant
remuneration of official assignees, the enactment respecting which
he censured in the strongest terms. He entertained the fullest
expectation that the Bill would not be carried—an expectation,
however, by no means founded upon the state of the benches
behind him, or at the opposite side of the House, but from a
sense of delicacy in the Lord Chancellor, who could never suffer
it to be said that Parliament was kept sitting at a great public
inconvenience, in order that a Bill might be passed to confer
upon him 26,0001. a year additional patronage,
Mr. PEPYS defended the measure in detail, and vindicated
the Lord Chancellor from the charge of desiring to increase the
patronage, or diminish the labours of his office. As to the ob-
jections that had been raised to the patronage unavoidably con-
sequent upon such a measure as that, he confessed he knew not
now it could be managed otherwise) for how could new Courts
be created without new Judges, and the appointment of those
mtist rest in some quarter or other ? The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman then went into a detailed examination of that part of
the Bill which relates to the appointment of Judges in the room
of the Commissioners; and contended that it was an improve-
ment Which had been contemplated, although not executed, by
all the most eminent persons who presided over the Court of
Chancery. That regulation which left to the Judges the deci-
sion of all facts after hearing viva voce evidence, and allowed an
appeal to the higher tribunal solely on the question of law, was
a change, the advantage of which could not be estimated too
highly. After expressing his surprise that the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman (Mr. Pemberton) should say that the Vice-
Chancellor's Court was adequate to the discharge of all the bank-
ruptcy business imposed on it, at a moment when it was known
that the able and excellent Judge who sat at that Court—than
whom there was none more capable of getting through the busi.
ness, if it were possible to do so—was compelled to leavea long
arrear of petitions unheard, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
concluded, by expressing his conviction, that the suitors of the
Court of Chancery would derive important benefits from the
changes which the Bill was intended to carry into effect.
Mr. Alderman WOOD expressed his surprise that the Hon.
and Learned Member (Mr. Pemberton) should say the trading
classes of the city of London did not desire this Reform in the
Court of Chancery, when it was a fact that a committee of the
merchants of the city had been sitting from time to time, for
several years, in order to devise some plan which they could re-
commend to the Government for the improvement of the Chan-
cery administration of the Bankrupt Laws. He as a mercantile
man, might say lie had lost thousands by the present system;
but he was convinced that the affairs of bankrupts could never
be well administered sinless one person at least well acquainted
with trade was placed among the assignees. All the objection
that he had heard against the Bill was, that it would increase
the Lord Chancellor's patronage. Now, he and the country did
not care for that, provided the Bill was a good measure.
Mr. SHEIL observed, that all the objection which had been
made to the Bill could be obviated in the Committee. All ad-
mitted abuses to exist; and, therefore, those who did not pro-
, pose a remedy themselves were bound to adopt that which was
now offered to them.
Alderman THOMPSON allowed that the existing evil de-
manded a remedy; but he thought that there were parts of the
Bill objectionable, and recommended the adoption of the pro; o-
sition of the Hon. Member for Bridport, to refer the measure to
the consideration of a Select Committee.
Mr. BURGE was sure the House must see, from the objec-
tions of the friends of the measure—to say nothing of its oppo-
nents—that it was in so imperfect a state, that it was indispen-
sible that it should undergo the revision a a Select Committee.
No one denied theta Reform in the existing system was neces-
sary. All that the opponents of the Bill maintained was, that
it was not calculated to effect that Reform in an advantageous
manner.
The House then divided—

For the motion
Against it 3l
Majority -76
The Bill then went into Committee.
Sir C. WETHERELL then said, that this Bill admitted the
principle of the lists of Commissioners, and that the proper re-
medy for the present defects in the administration of the Bank-
rupt Law was to reduce the number of the Commissioners ; to
make them act on the strict rules of the law of evidence ; and
to give them the power of making the opposing parties agree to
the facts on which the opinion of the Court above was after-
wards to be taken with respect to the law. He concluded by
moving that all the words relating to the Judges should be left
out of the clause. _

Sir H. HA RDINGE took this opportunity (as he was going
out of town) to pronounce a high eulogium upon the talents,
learning, and industry of Sir C. Wetherell.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL defended the increase on the
ground that it was required by the circumstances of the times,
and by the ill-working of the old system.
Mr. WRANGH AM complained of the patronage the measure
threw into the hands of the Lord Chancellor.

Mr. J. CAMPBELL said that the Chief Justice and three
Puisne Judges were necessary for the satisfactory decision of
Bankrupt petitions. Mr. Michael Angelo Taylor, once in this
House—and a great authority—(Laughter)—had wished even that
three Judges should sit in the Court of Chancery for the better
satisfaction of the suitors.

Mr. G. BANKES said, that he had authority for saying that
Mr. M. Angelo Taylor had never been consulted on this mea-
sure.—(Laughter.) That Hon. Gentleman had been much sur-
prised at the little regard Ministers seemed to pay to his opinions.
Mr. R. GRANT supported the clause. He thought it was
much better to have one or a few Judges having no other busi-
ness than bankruptcy, than, as at present, to have a great num-
ber of Judges with whom the business of bankruptcy was a sub-
ordinate occupation. if the system worked well, as he hoped it
would, he had no doubt that every one of the new Judges would
be employed.
Sir C. WETHERELL said that an order had gone forth from
the Woolsack to pass this Bill, but he would not fight under that
banner. The Bill was a gross Judicial job—a grosser jut) than had
ever been completed by any Chancellor since the days of Wolsey.
The House then divided. The numbers were—
For the amendment l9
Against it
Majority for the original clause —s2
On the re-admission of strangers to the gallery, Sir C. Wethe-
rell was engaged in a conversation with Mr. Serjeant Wilde ;
after which,
Lord STORMONT moved that the Chaitman report progress,
and ask leave to sit again; which was agreed to.
SUGAR REFINERY'BILL.

On the motion that the House resolve itself into a Committee
on the Sugar Refinery Bill, a conversation ensued, in which Lord
A LTHORP, Mr. P. THOMSON, Mr. BURGE, and other Members took
part, and which was concluded by
Mr. H. HUGHES moving, as an amendment, that the House
should then adjourn ,- whereupon the House divided—
For the amendment l2

Against it 49
Majority against the amendment —37
The discussion as to the adjournment was immediately re-
newed, when
Lord A LTHORP said, that as Hon. Gentlemen seemed deter-
mined to persevere in motions for the adjournment of the de-
bate, he would no, longer object to it.

The debate was accordingly postponed; and the other Orders
of the lily being disposed ot; the House adjourned at a Quarter.
past Three o'clock this morning.

THE FUNDS-(ThIS DAY).

FOUR 0 CLOCK.—CLOSING PRICES.
Consols Bll Danish
Ditto for Account 81-a Greek, 1825 l7
Brazilian Bonds.. 43 Mexican, 1825 34
Buenos Ayres; Peruvian

Chilian Ditto .... 161 Rti,,siln 94a
Columbian, 1824 Spanish l2l