The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-17 00:00:00

CHARITABLE TRUSTS.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL presented a petition
with respect to some prir.ste Bill, the name of which did
not reach the gallery, and obtained kayo of the House
to appear before the Committee on the Bill in his official
capacity.

PETITIONS.
Sir J. WALMSLEY presented a petition in favour of
representative and financial reform.
Mr. DUNCAN presented a petition from Dundee
against various clauses in the Health of Towns Bill, and
a petition from Ediiburgh against the Registration
(Sc;'tiand) Rill.
Mr. srooNER presented a petition from the trus-
ters of the Rugby Schrol, complainitg of certain provi-
sions in the Charitable Trusts Bill, and praying that
they might be exempted from the operation of the Act.
Mr. BROTIIERTON presented three petitions, one
from Manchester against capital pun shments, one from
Tuxtcth Park in favour of county financial boar, and
one from Haltted, in Essex, for the gradual aboAtion of
beer-houses.

Mr. GROGAN presented a petition from the Sanitary
Commission of Dublin praying that a measure for the
registration of births, deaths, and marriages might be
extended to Ireland.

Mr. OSBORNE presented a petition from graziers cou•

fleeted with Smithfield Market,praying that they might
be heard by counsel before the Cora.,,ittee now sitting.
EASTERN COUNTIES RAILWAY.—MR. JIUD-

SON'S STATE ME ,4T.

Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from 31 share-
holders in the Eastern Counties Railway Company re-
siding in Devonshire, making certain grave charges
against the lion. Member for Sunderland in his capacity
of chairman to that company. He (Mr. Divert) had
furnished that Honourable Member with a copy of
the petition, and therefore it would be unnecessary
to trouble the House with a statement of the charges in
detail. The prayer of the petition was that the House
would inquire fully into the charges, and, in the event of
their being proved, expel that Hon. Member from the
House.

The petition was read by the Clcrk at the table.
Mr. CHARTER'S also presented a petition from
sixty shareholders in the Eastern Counties Company,
complaining generally of the mismanagement of
the affairs, and stating that that mismanage-
ment commenced almost as soon as Mr. Hudson
and Mr. Waddington, both Members of the
House, had become respectively chairman and deputy-
chairman of the company, and had also taken place
while Mr. Bagshaw, another Member of the House, was
upon the directory. The petition concluded, like the
former one, by a prayer, that an inquiry might be made
into the conduct of each of those three gentlemen.

Mr. HUDSON then rose and appeared so deeply
affected that he was unable to proceed for a few moments.
He said he cattle down to that House immediately upon
receiving a copy of the petition from the Hon. Member,
although with considerable difficulty, owing to a severe
domestic affliction.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") He
thought ho was, therefore, entitled to the indulgence
of every Member in the House while he offered
to it some explanation, and some observation with re-
ference to those two petitions which had just been pre-
sented to the House.—(Hepeated cries of "Hear, hear.")
If he had been guilty of the practices which had
been imputed to him with respect to the
capital and the revenue, without fair and sufficient
reason, it might be, perhaps, that he had done so
through some error, but he could assure the House that
it was not an intentional error on his part.—(Hear,
hear.) His first connexion with the company was in
1845, he believed in the month of October.
He received a deputation from the board with a requi-
sition, signed by 7-Bths of the shareholders, soliciting
him to become their chairman. He, at first, had some
objection to take upon himself the office, but after some
pressure he consented to do so. Before then he had
no shares in the company, nor any interest in it, and, in
fact, he was not connected with it in any way what-
ever. When he joined it he endeavoured as much
as possible to benefit the shareholders and to
effect that purpose with the then projected
London board. Upon his accession to the office
he devoted himself as anxiously and as assiduously
to his duties as he possibly could.—(Cheers.) He
believed that the first charge was that he had raised
the dividend for the first half-year from 33. to 9s. without
any change in the circumstances of the affairs of the com-
pany. Now, when he stated the facts of the case, he thought.
that the House would agree with him that the statement
that there was no change iu the circumstances of the
company wee not correct. Alter incidentally stating
that the shares were higher in the market before he
became connected with the company than they had
ever been since, he said that the gross income for the
half-year ending July, 1845, was 114,0001,, and that in
the next half-year it nad risen to 173,0001., showing an in-
crease of nearly 60,000/. Ile thought that the House would
consider was some justification for giving a higher divi-
dend. No two persons seemed to agree as to the ac-
counts. As far as the dividend was concerned, he thought
there was ample reason for recommending the
one he had. It was said that the capital
had been raised from 5,000,000/. to 10,000,0001. That
was not true either. It was said the capital of that
company when he joined it was 2,900,0001., and 13,000/.
in the Northern and Eastern Company, but instead of
the capital being 2,900,0002, it was 4,300,000/.,
while the addition of a bonus of 1,000,000/., increased
it to 5,300,000/, or 5,500,000/. Ile had to complain
most deeply of the uniair proceedings of the committee
of investigation. Ho had no notice given whatever with
respect to it. He had no knowledge of what
was passing in that Committee—no information was fur-
nished to him except three or four written questions.
—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") He had no notice that
such a charge was to be made against him as an indi-
vidual; and when he called upon them yesterday morning
with a friend, to see the real position in which he
was placed—to see the documents which purported to
be in his handwriting, and some of the figures of which
it was said he had altered; he had great difficulty in
seeing that document, and when he did see it, he was
told that no other person should be permitted to
to see it but himself. When they did consent to let him
see it, two of the committee came into the room, and
said they only gave him that permission that he should
ask no questions nor receive any information.—(Hear.)
Now what did the House think of such conduct as that?
—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear." and cheers.) He was
sure but one opinion would prevail among Englishmen
with respect to this—namely, that he should have fair
and just information furnished him, when a specific charge
was made against him, in order that he might have a fair
opportunity of answering it.—(Hear.) But what did the
House believe?—that on the testimony of the two gentle-
men
who were present, and he dare say he could bring
forward hundreds of others, to prove the same—that not
one figure in that document was in his handwriting.—
(Cheers.) He utterly denied that the document
had been altered by him at all.—(Hear, hear.) As far
as he could understand the charge made in the report by
the accountant, it was t his, that he had altered the sum
of 10,0001., and turned it into capital. Now ,he denied that
he, in his individual capacity, had altered the figures at all.
But with respect to the mistake which he had committed
he cautioned the House not to pay too much credence
to that committee. It was stated by that committee that
he authorised the change of 115,0001. from revenue to
capital. He had no hesitation in saying that he did
not authorise anything of the kind. But this com-
mittee seemed to be a singular one indeed, for . he
found, from looking at the working expenses of this low,
that the published account showed that those working
expenses were 1,250/. per mile. The committee made
those working expenses 1,5501. per mile. Now the
London and Birmingham is worked at 39 per
cent., the Great Western at 40 per cent., and
the Leeds and Lancashire at 39 per cent.
They would have the House believe that this line
could be worked at 55 per cent. This was brought
forward against himself as a grave charge. If it were
true he should deeply regret that be had been betrayed
into such an error; hut he thought the House would
agree with him that the committee which had reported in
such a manner, and with such an animus, had shown
that they were not now entitled to that credit from the
House which the report, if it had only appeared yester-
day, would have been entitled to. It was irei-
, nuated that he had done this for the sake of profit,
but he totally denied it. Let Honourable Gentle-
men search the share register of the company,
and they would find him registered without
change for the stock for which his name was registered
when he first joined the company.—(Loud cries of
" Hear, hear.") Ile still held the stock which he first
owned when he joined the company.—(Hear, hear.) He
did not know any other point which called for
explanation. The accountant stated distinctly that any
alteration that was made, was made by the directors;
therefore the petition ought not to have been directed
against him (Mr. Hudson) alone, but against the
directors as a body.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
He held a joint responsieility with these directors.
He never signed a cheque of the company he
believed in his life. He had merely presided
over that company, and he had endeavoured erroneously
to do his duty. Ile might have taken too sanguine a
view of this undertaking; but he was a suffsrer along
with the rest from that too sanguine estimate. But
he was convinced that this undertaking would yet amply
remunerate the shareholders, if the expenses were kept
down, and it had been his anxious endeavour to force
down those expenses. He threw himself upon the
Holies ; he was perfectly ready to bow to any decision
it might coma to; he denied that he had sought to en-
hance the shares, or to give an undue value
to them. When ho joined the company there
was scarcely a day without a serious accident
happening on the line, and large sums of money
had to be expended on the stock of the com-
pany. The House would see from a report that
had been published this morning that another company
had placed 150,000/. to capital, which ought to go to
revenue, and that chairrnau, instead of being blamed by
the committee, was praised and extolled by them.—
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") What ought to go to
capital and what to revenue? The Grand Junction
charged 14,0001. for repairs, which was taken from capital
and paid to the company. There was a charge about
interest. Why, Parliament had sanctioned that pay-
ment out of capital constantly, and be did not know.i w i 1
one law should apply to the Eastern Counties Company,
and another to any other company. He was driven
to discharge duties of many kinds, and he left the
to deal with the petition as they might oeern best and
proper. He had no other explanation to give than his
i
total denial that the share figures were n his hand-
writing, or that he altered them in any Ivey in the
paper.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition beaches.)
Mr. WADDINGTON said it was his meat painful
duty to have to follow the Hon. Member for Sunderland,
and he would do so briefly in the observations which he
bad to address to the House. lie should not
have thought it necessary to address them if
he had not thought some explanation was
due from him. In that petition he was charged eith
being a party to deceiving the shareholders with respect !
to something like 9,000,0001. of money. He availed '
himself of this opportunity of first calling the atten- '
Lion of the House for one moment as to ha N those state- ;
ments made their appearance. They appeared from the
report of the investigation committee; and his object in ;
rising was to claim the indulgence of the House to detail '
a few of the proceedings of that investigation committee 1
as regarded himself, inasmuch as the House had an in- '
terest in Lis character and in defending him from 1
statements to which he was not a party.
He had, however, alluded to this on a former occasion,
when a committee of the shareholders made a charge
against him, and which a Committee of that House WRS I

appointed to investigate. Ho wished now to allude
to it, inasmuch as when he recently addressed the
shareholders he charged the committee of investig, tio
with having inserted a clause which many of their
body looked' upon as expunged, and which was obviously
incorrect. He, therefore, called upon the House to tear
iu mind the evidence given before the Committee ap-
pointed by the House, inasmuch as he had nut the op-
portunity of correcting any statement which might have
been made before it. With respect to what
had fallen from the Honourable Gentlemen (Mr.
Hudson) in reference to the alteration of the document
nut being in his handwriting, all he wished to say was
that having denied that it was in his handwriting he had
nothing more to say upon the point. He should not
trouble the House with the details referred to in the
report of the Committee, believing that it would
not be edified by them. He had already
stated that the amount of liabilities mentioned by the
Committee was incorrect. He reiterated that statement
now, and had to complain that the committee had not
given him an opportunity of answering the statement
during the sitting of the committee. With respect to
investigation, he should be happy to bow to any that
the House might think proper, believing that they would
come to the determination that during the last three
years of his life he had devoted every faculty of his mind
to promoting the present and future welfare of the Eastern
Counties Railway, and if he had erred in judgment, they
were simply errors. He had done all in his power to promote
the prosperity of the line, and to put it in a healthy con-
dition.

Mr HUDSON again rose, and said he was sure the
House would allow him to explain a matter which he had
forgotten to mention. He was merely going to show
the incorrectness of the report of the committee
respecting the amount of money stated to have been car-
ried over to revenue and capital. The Committee had
forgotten that 72041004, according to the rules laid down
for the working of the line, was due from another com-
pany to the Eastern Counties, and not 115,0001., as was
set down by them, and which ought to have charged to
revenue. This showed that they were wrong in this as
well as in other matters. Besides, they had put figures
down three times over, and therefore, the House could
not place much reliance upon such a report.
Mr. BAGSHAW said he stood in a different position
to the Honourable Gentleman the Member fur Sun-
derland. The petition stated that there were
certain members of the board of the Eastern Counties
Reilway who held no shares (as we understood the
Hon. Member.) Now he was one of these, as he was
principally connected with the Northern and Eastern
Railway. It appeared that out of 14,000 proprietors but
60 had been found to sign the petition in question. He
owed no allegiance to them; but as a Member of that
House he owed it an allegiance, which he was perfectly
ready and willing to acknowledge, and bow to—and
not being a very young Member, he wished to state,
that if he were capable of acting as the Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Charteris) had stated the
directors had acted, he should have been un-
worthy of a seat in that House. As a member of the
Northern and Eastern he wished to state that the di-
rectors of that railway had had a meeting to-day,
the whole matter was gone into by his colleagues,
and he might be permitted to say that he had been una-
nimously elected to a seat in the Eastern Counties
Board by the self-same gentlemen who had formerly
sent him back. In justice to Mr. Hudson, he
thought it right to state that the last time he went
into Norfolk—last yenr—he said to him, in the
agony of spirit—" Mr. Begshaw, I have been greatly
deceived in these matters." So much he (Mr. Bogshaw)
was bound to say. There were several other matters in
the Hon. Gentleman's speech which he should how-
ever leave untouched.

The petition was then ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. COBDEN presented petitions from Diss and
other places praying for a repel of the malt tax.
CONVICT EMIGRATION.
Mr. AGLIONBY presented a petition from the New
Zealand Company against convict emigration.
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY presented several petitions in
favour of the Marriage Bill.
Mr. Alderman HUMPHERY presented a petition
from Southwark in favour of financial reform.
NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.
Mr. PACKS gave notice of his intention on an early
day to move an address to her Majesty, stating the want
of accommodation in the present House of Commons,
and praying that her Majesty would order the New
House to be ready next session.

COPYHOLD BILL.
Mr. AGLIONBY, in answer to a question from Mr.
Heathcote, stated that it was li!s determination to pro-
ceed with the Copyhold Bill on Wednesday next, not-
withstanding it was the Derby-3ay.
Mr. ANS FEY, as the Noble Lord the Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs was not in his place, wished to
110( the Noble Lord the First Minister of the Crown
whether he would lay on the table of the House the
copy of a later of the 22d November, 1848, addressed
by Under-Secretary Lord Eddisbary to Mrs.
Castellari, stating that an Englishwoman by her
marriage with a foreigner adopts the nationality of her
husband, and oven after widowhood loses all claim by
right to the assistance of her Majesty's Consul in the
place where her husband died, in recovering or ascer-
taining the state of his property there. And whether ho
would also lay on the table the instructions which deter-
mine the conduct of her Majesty's Consuls in such cases.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL could not answer the ques-
tion in the absence of the Noble Lord at the Head of
Foreign Affairs.