The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-16 00:00:00

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e°lntice it was shown that pauperism had increased in
eensinuence of the withdrawal of manufactures. The
report of the Poor-law Commissioners, in 1843, showed
to what this was to be attributed—it was to the atteeept
of rating; stock in trade; when that was done the poor
law was ba'ily administered, and then head money was
Originally established; and the consequence was that the
nlanufactures once established in the clothing counties of
the south were driven to the north. He (Mr. Bright)
hued in a township, or parish, in which the rating
Iles not more than 7d. in the pound; in some other town •
;iniPs, and at no great distance, the rating was 3s. or 4s.
Lll the pound. Now if a person was about building a mill,
t Would be his interest to erect it in a place where the
rates were low, and such would be the tendency of
all acts which sought to impose such burdens—they
Would drive manufactures from certain counties and
Parishes to others. A great deal of mist hung about the
Proposition of the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire,
je▪ rid he should endeavour to penetrate it. The Hon.
taxation,
proposition was to withdraw 6,000,0001. of
,-"Jalion, which were now imposed upon certain
'eoulders, and to return them upon the same shoulders
partly, and partly upon the shoulders of (Alum If the
?n. Member took away the 6,000,0001., he would cer-
„"anlY return 3,000,0001. of it to the same parties who
"" had to bear it; for 3,000,0001. should certainly be
eaul by the real property of the country, and the real
Property of the country was not that which Hon. Gen-
r n opposite always made it mean—the land only.
No, no," from Members on the Opposition benches.)
•u3' doing this—by taking away 9,000,000/., they would
raise the whole value of the 30,000,000/. of property
weich now paid to 100,000,0001.; and that, he said,
Was a proposition which would not meet with much
favour from the House or the country. Suppose,
,en, n that the Jloourable Gentlemen's proposition
luNil d go' to the'taxation of all kinds of property, they
;rid find that the cultivated land in England and
tevales ivas 0,000,000 of acres; every acre required 101.
cultivate it properly, but taking it at 5/., there was a
!
"'„11P," ital of 150,000,000/. employed by the tenant-farmers,
by the proposition now made it was intended to
transfer a portion of the taxes now paid to the capital
Which the tenant-farmer employed in the cultivation of
hThis
lands of Hon. Gentlemen opposite.—(Hear, hear.)
MI was certainly the most extraordinary proposition
for„ dealing with and relieving agricultural distress that
" had ever heard of.—(Laughter.) The Hon. Gentle-
!Li° is making such a proposition was discriminating
111 his favours; Scotland was not mentioned by him, and
as tothe sister island he had nothing to give it but that
Wnich benevolent people with nothing in their pcckets
were but too apt to give—advice.—(Laughter.) Such
~advice had been but too long given; and he believed that
Ireland would not be tempted on this occasion to follow
him, when all be proposed to do fur her was to pay
aeavy taxation, and no other compensation for it but
eennsels.—(Laughter.) He was disposed to think
,bat the Hon. Gentleman's proposition caused great
' f •
, sat is action amongst the farmers.—(A laugh.) The
411gh was extremely faint; but Hon. Gentleman oppo-
late, be believed, were aware that the Mark. lane
farmers,
was a paper of very high authority amongst
'arneers, and that it was read by a very large and very
respectable class amongst the agriculturists. Now, what
ward that raper of the proposition of the Honourable
""ntber?—that it was " a detestable piece of duplicity,"
.4 detestable as ever yet was submitted by a public man.
..:(Laughter.) Now he would not say anything so harsh
its that of the Hon. Gentleman.—(Laughter.) He be-
hissed that the lion. Gentleman had calculated upon the
ItaPldity of the farmers, that by mixing up landlords and
tenants
n together as if they were but one class, and pro-
`,;„",,stng some relief which was to go into the pockets of
e class—and that the landlords—the farmers might be
Ntiv''tieed to follow in the train of the Hon. Gentleman.
Ith agricultural distress spoken, and such relief pro-
!red, it reminded him of the story of a party of
enillilag players, who advertised at one time that they
b;11,14 play for the benefit of the poor of the
it-,,r;ah- The announcement excited a great deal of at-
-"en—the barn was crowded, but when the distribu-
tionl, was looked for, the players maintained that " they
,t,se,re the poor of the parish themselves"—(Laughter)—
V therefore kept the whole of the receipts.—(Laughter.)
11,,_ Was precisely the conduct of the Hon. Alember for
T-e4inghamshire in bringing forward his proposition.
his Was not what was said would be sought for. This
eat,
• not the story that was told in Bond-street or in
11111114.8
Rooms, where language was used by Hon. Gen-
-141:1"71 not as temperate as they employed in tbat House,
eer," he might retaliate on Hon. Gentlemen opposite the
1.0;;W delivered by the Right Hon. Member for Stam-
m (Mr. Herries) to his Hon. Friend (Mr. Cobden) in
41, recent debate..--(Hear.) There was, in fact, as it was
th°wn by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, nothing in
Roposition of the Hon. Member for Buckingham-
to're intended to mitigate the distress of the farmers, or
Weenable them to bear that competition to which they
eartek exposed. When he (Mr. B.) and his friends sat
thi,""e opposite side of the House, they never said any-
lit4",,g' of the malt-tax. They were then engaged with a
8, "able object—in that object theyhad succeeded. They
biltitght not to give partial relief to this or that interest;
pee.,!leY sought then, and sought now, to reduce the ex-
wileetture so as to give general relief to all classes. There
hO class more industrious or more meritorious than
to': class for which Hon. Gentlemen opposite professed
rep all
Now he (Mr. Bright) tithe not ask for a
peal of the malt tax in order to have people hap.
epiir by making beer cheaper; he was not one of those
ek thought they promoted morality by making vice
sheer he thought that the beer drinker whoewas
she would, if beer, were cheaper, have more money to
rillrehase something else. He thought the malt-tax was
thJ,arious to the agricultural interests to some consider-
extent, and as he had ever advocated, when sitting
etit.he Other side of the llouse, the abolition of Excise
144,7, he was now prepart d to advocate the abolition of
tie duty on malt and hops.—(Bear, hear.) Hon. Gen-
opposite, however, never alluded to the malt-tax,
Gen-
They bad discarded R
I " Oh no, they never mentioned it,
Its name was never heard ;

Their lips were now forbid to speak
170 That once familiar word."—(Laughter.)
temtvitlistanding all their strong language about the
till, "tax, they now said to the farmers to wait till the
hce, Caine for repealing it; but whether that would be
left present generation or in the next everybody was
site In the dark.—(Laughter.) Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
st citelned to him to be each like two different persons
luterent times: they each took one course in that
Ouse,
Ipok and another in the country. In the country they
of the various burdens on land, and even referred
dt:'Lnes as a burden on the land. They allowed their
Cants to speak of tithes as a burden. Well they
might
ti;.'o; they might say farmers would be better off if
Earl Paid no titers, just as it might be said that every
(e'er would be better off if he had no rent to pay.—
te e,ar, hear.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite told farmers
1,4:0k to Parliament for relief. Now, if he were a
Isuultird he wculd inculcate upon his tenantry this
)4,,,1'un, that Parliament was not a Parliament for land•
th '44, but it was constituted to deal with the interests of
pi/ Whole empire; not to look to the particular condition
toe, Particular class, but to the general welfare of
o classes; and be would tell them of all places
Its 'OE for succour, Parliament and St. Stephen's
kir the very worst places in which they would
he ~hit.--(Cheers from Members on the Opposition
vill•—'es.) He would tell them that they must look to
mutt
in their trade as in every other, and they
abexercise their talents as other men exercised them,
skit they must work out their prosperity by their own
lead: and industry.—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen were
trews the farmers away on a false scent. They had a
the ',Paper which was most powerful in their interest—
the `standard. Now tho Standard said at one time, as
es
,c'rgart of the agriculturists, that England would be
he a',4_,at, happy, and as powerful—that England would
ditty, rich as she was, if the whole of the manufacturing
rier;'4,..s of her empire were involved in ono common
It ;„-. l'hat was the substance of a sentiment to which
sow expression expression a few years ago. But the Standard
fer'A,f`nak another course. That paper was all laudation
f 'embers on the opposite side of the House who were
avour of protection. It said now that there was an
4°:eiation of farmers and labourers to do away with the
ith of the productions of the mills of the north.
b_ere Was, then, to be no more broad cloth in
iit;4Betshire—cotton was to be repudiated, and even
lese.la smocks on farmers' boys were to be rejected un-
less
did-not
were made by the hand•loom.—(Laughter.)
d id-not know what Honourable Gentlemen were to
It? if this proposition were to be acted upon. `
"ere they to do for clothing ? Were they, like their
4,llcestoes, to pride themselves on their painted skins?—
I,Laughter.) Or were Hon. Members to come to that
!louse from the agricultural counties clothed in thatch ?
I.,(Laughter.) If they did, he hoped their tenants
i'huld receive a remunerating price for straw.—(Laughter)
le lit, then, was the proposition which he found stated
of that paper which was the powerful and great organ
th their party. It was not thus they ought to mislead
ife farmers. They ought to treat the farmers fairly
g ather wished fc'r the good and full cultivation of their
arjui'da. What, he asked, was the difference between
..,Irtner and a manufacturer ? He was a manufacturer
The" occupied premises—he paid a high rent for it.
Is:farmers took their land, and paid them rent for it. There
There
Yte w no difference in principle or in
m practice between the two.
Deias no difference in the ode of attaining pros-
hilitLY• They wanted all restrictions imposed upon them
eliat House to be removed, that they might be able to
the raw material sit the cheapest price, and have
lie4t""r and open market where they might obtain the
The farmer laboured under disadvantages
tierce the manufacturer had not. The Hon Mem•
Dorsetshire (Mr. Seymer) had appealed to
But 0Q behalf of the farmers who had not capital.
eouirre People in the north of England and in the towns
twin " nut be mulcted by the laws of this House to sus-
-4,111 I,en who had no capital.
, HON. MEMBER—SmaII capital.
Nl.• BRIGHT—WeII, small capital. If a man had a
tf it"„red acres of laud, and only 500/. to cultivate it with,
of I'equired 10/. an acre, he should have only 50 acres
Ltih"--(flear, hear.) There were many persons in
le,:aahire and Yorkshire who had found their capital
!Itert, much crippled of late years, and were not only not
it, ti-4,,d,,ing their business, but some of them diminishing
140,,"`-' that was precisely the principle upon which the
'Victors of land ought to act, and endeavour to secure
ia a. !heir !heir farms men who had capital and great spirit
aite'Teulture; but he would tell Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
itOp 'uat they were taking a course which rendered it
to t'sible,—(‘. Oh, oh.") For example, if a farmer came
Ithir,,ena to ask for a farm and wished to make stipulations,
th,t'u Were called stipulations of a commercial character;
tr„ o *as, if he said, "I must plough as I like, and
,`.o,elv,htts I like, of course saving your interest at
.orea"" of the lease. I must have every creature that
by on the land, and I must not have my farm infested
;" Hon. Gentlemen opposite—not all of them—
thitli",aknY of them were now acting more judiciously
tatia,;lieY did some time ago—did not like the man as a
clast•"--(flear, hear.) Now, it was one of the conse-
ths),'ea from which they could not escape, and of which
fault7ere told before free trade was granted, that they
tatreeluce the commercial principle in future

arrangements between landlord and tenant. It was im-
possible that this great country, with its vastly increas-
ing interests and dense population, should stand still,
or rest ender the baneful inlleer.ce of protec-
tion to egriculture, simply because they were unwillinr
to tido' t in their relations with their tenantry those res-
tural principles which were acted upon by all the other
branches of industry throughout the country. Now the
proposition which he (Mr. Bright) supported was ad
mitted on all hands to be more distinct than that of the
Honourable Member for Buckinghamshire. That Hon.
Gentleman had come forward in the character of a Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and the framer of a budget ;
tut he had only shown himself a novice in this new walk,
for he had left cut of view the source from which he
was going to obtain the six millions of taxes which he
must necessarily have. The Hon. Gentleman spoke of
the " expansion of the income-tax," and from that phrase
ke presumed the Hoe. Gentleman intended to increase
the income-tax. But the lion. Baronet the Member for
Lincolnshire thought that a fixed duty on corn would do
as well ; but how six millions were to be raised by a
fixed duty on corn he (Mr. Bright) did not know. They
had no calculation as to the quantity of corn that had
come in, or as to the amount of duty that was to be
levied par quarter. Let Hon. Gentlemen beware, how
ever, how they turned their attention, or the attention
of their tenantry, to the question of the re-imposition of
duties on corn. They would be attempting that which
he believed to be as impossible as it would be to re-
peal the Reform Bill or the Catholic Emancipa-
tion Act.—(Ministerial cheers.) Let them take
care that that which was constantly said of :free-traders
when they were agitating for free trade, did not become
the universal sentiment. The only valid objection then
raised to theta was, that they we re doing that which
possibly, because of the supremacy of the landowners
this House, might be only temporary; that they were
wasting their energies in repealing an Act of Parliament;
and that however important it might be, they ought at
the same time so to reform and change the constitution
of this House as that not corn-growers and landowners
should be represented there, but the great mass of the
population who never had, and never could have, any
interest in the imposition of a duty upon food. Hon.
Gentlemen must take care of what they were about.
They fancied there was a lull in the public mind, and
that events abrhad had frightened people at home. Let
them bear in mind that in all the European capitals a
system was now being established which some wished
might not last, but which, if it did last, might have a
strange effect upon the minds of the people in this .coun-
try who were looking, and wisely looking, to great and
permanent changes in the constitution of Parliament.
Whilst Gentlemen opposite were leading them in one
direction, he.begged to tell them that they were defeat-
ing their object in another direction; for they were lead-
ing the farmers after that false light, which must here-
after entice them into still greater and more permanent
difficulties than they were in at present. Hon. Gentle-
men talked of the experiment of free trade as if had
failed, or had been but an experiment.—(lronical
cheers.) Had they not been legislating ever since the
oldest man amongst them entered that House, every few
years, in favour of protection, and to keep up the price
of corn ?—(No, no.) Had they not had Committee after
Committee for the purpose of proving that there was
agricultural distress ?—(Hear and No, no.) Did they not
recollect that under the protective law of 1828, in the
year 1836 the whole average price for the year, not of
sprouted wheat, but of good wheat, was 395.4 d. a quarter?
whereas the Hon. Member for Somerset (Mr. Miles) had
told the House tee night that he was selling his sprouted
wheat at 425. a quarter. 'Was it possible that lion.
Gentlemen could have forgotten all that had taken place
within the last 35 years, in which time they had had
great practical illustrations of the working of their 83 a-
tom? Well, that system was abolished. They had
wreaked their vengeance upon a Minister—they had split
up a party-they had shown an anger which political
parties in this country had scarcely ever before exhibited,
because the industry of the people, through the power
and the patriotism of the man whom they had discarded
—(Laughter, and ironical cheers from the Protectionists,
answered by Ministerial cheering)—because through
that man the industry of this great and growing popula-
tion had escaped from the pressure of that screw
which, through the corn-law, had been laid upon
the necessaries of life. He feared Honourable
Gentlemen were not exactly aware of what was passing
in the country—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—and in the
great towns. The question of a reduction of expendi-
ture, which had been placed before the House, was ex-
citing the greatest interest in every meeting of farmers.
In every county the same cry was echoed. Nay, the
very men who thought the free-traders were their greatest
enemies, were now ready to shake hands with his lion.
Friend the Member for the West Riding.—(Cries of
" Oh, oh," " No, no," and ironical cheers, and laughter.)
They were anxious that that measure of justice should be
done to the country which his Hon. Friend advocated,
and that in this House they should force upon the Exe-
cutive Government the greatest possible economy which
was compatible with the efficiency of the public service.
—(" Hear," from the Opposition benches.) lion. Gentle-
men opposite blamed the Government because they had
made some small reduction in the estimates, and told them
that they were following the Honourable Member for the
West Riding. His Honourable Friend the Member for
the West Riding was certainly a most extraordinary
man.—(Laughter.) The greatest charge brought against
Sir Robert Peel was, that he obeyed the dictates and fel-
lowed the recommendations of his Honourable Friend;
and now, when the Minister did anything that was sen-
sible, or wished for by the country, the instant cry was
that they were following the recommendations of the
Honourable Member for the West Riding. Why, it was
because he (Mr. Bright) and his llonourable Friend
lived among the people, had travelled in every county
among them, knew their feelings and wishes, were iden-
tified with their interests, and had come to this House as
the reprerentatiues of great and free constituencies, that
the measures of. the Honourable Member for the West
Riding had the sympathy of millions in the country; and
not many sessions of Parliament would pass before
Honourable Gentlemen opposite—powerful as they were
—would vote for the measures they now affected to de-
spise.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE said the Hon. Member for Man-
chester (Mr. Bright) had told them the Hon. Member
for the West Riding was a great man, but he (Mr. New-
degate) did not think so, and his ire seemed to be espe-
cially excited by the prospect which he said had been
held out to the farmers, that the corn-laws would be re-
enacted. The Hon. Member heel also endeavoured to
cast ridicule upon the proposal which had been made by
the lion. Member for Buckinghamshire, and the able
speech of that Hon. Gentleman had been met by vitupe-
ration on the part of the Hon. Member for Manchester.
Looking at the whole of the statistics on the
question of rates, the conclusion to be arrived at
was, that in the agricultural counties the rates
were 81 per cent. higher than in the manu'ac-
turing towns; and he, therefore, considered the measure
of his Hon. Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire
well-timed, and trusted it would meet with the support of
the House, despite of the short-sighted light-hearted-
ness of certain Hon. Members. The Right Hon. Baronet
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had told the House, that
within a very few years 9,000,0001. of taxation had been
remitted in favour of the agricultural interests; but while
the Right Hon. Baronet had made that statement—which
exceeded the fact—ho had failed to inform the House
that 23,000,000/. of taxation had been remitted in favour
of other classes of the community. Now, for every 1001.
of taxation which had been remitted in favour of the
agriculturists, he found that 270/. had been remitted in
favour of the other classes, and the balance was, there-
fore, against the agricultural classes.
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT considered the motion of
the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire with all the bias
—if he might be permitted so to speak—of a person con-
nected with the landed interest, yet he could not regard
it as perfect. He had listened, on the other hand, to the
very able speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer; but he thought the Right Hon.
Baronet had, to a great degree, undervalued the amount
of distress. He (Mr. Herbert) was connected with a
part of the country which was greatly affected by the
distress; and he believed, although the distress was
said to be only local, that it was extended more than
Hon. Gentlemen were willing to admit. As to the
cause of the distress, he did not form his opinions
on the simple reference to the depressed prices of
wheat. The question was, what were the circum-
stances which made the distress so peculiar as now?
He believed that they arose from the unfavourable-
ness of the seasons, and consequent bad harvests.—
(Hear, Hear.) He did not recollect a season more un-
favourable to agricultural interests than the last. Wheat
was at present 455.; but there were few who had wheat
to send into the market which would fetch that price.
And it was also a fact, ascertained from the returns,
that there was at present a greater diminution of con-
sumption than at former times. He now came to the
question how fir this distress would be remedied by the
motion before the House, and he must say he was at a
loss to know whence the six millions sterling were
to come, which the Hon. Member for Buckingham-
shire said it would be necessary to make up, in, lieu of
the six millions, which he proposed to be remitted. Ho
considered that the, Hon. Member had propounded but
one-half of his plan, and as he could not approve of it
as by any means perfect, he, for one, for the reasons he
had given, could not consent to raise false hopes, and
he must, therefore, come to the conclusian not to give
his vote in favour of the Hon. Member's motion to go
into Committee.

Mr. C•AYLEY must give a contradiction to the state-
ments that no complaints had as yet been made with re-
spect to the existence of distress in the north of England,
for no later than the previous day he had had a letter
informing him that distress prevailed there, and that a
great meeting was contemplated to take into considera-
tion the causes of the low prices of agricultural produce.
With respect to the complaints made by the agricultural
classes of the burdens of taxation on land, he was not
surprised to hear them, for he felt that cause existed ;
but to hear a complaint emanate from the manufacturing
classes, he confessed, surprised him. The shoe must
pinch somewhere ; and he apprehended there was some-
thing going wrong in the affairs of the manufacturing
interests. It was the failure of trade in 1837 that led
to the agitation in favour of a repeal of the corn-
laws. Free trade had realised almost every one of the
evils which it promised; and-if it be persevered in, some
such measure as that promulgated by his Hon. Friend
the Member for Buckinghamshire, in favour of a remis-
sion of taxation pressing on agricultural interests, should
be resorted to. The Excise duties paid by agricultu-
rists amounted in the whole to 12,171,8041.; the stamp
duties to 1,997,1961; stage coaches, 552,0001.; post
horses, 166,0001.; and the assessed taxes, 1,662.000/.,
which, with others, made a grand total of 17,119,000/.
What they lost by tho duty on tobacco, which they
could easily grow in this country, could not be esti-
mated at less than 3,000,0001., and the local taxation
could not be less than 40,000.0001. If they were
to have free trade they should have it in every re-
spect, and the agricultural interest should not be fettered
by taxes to the amount of 17,000,000/. It should be ob-
served that the agricultural iuterest paid the duty en tea