The Sun.
London, England, 1807-01-06 00:00:00

war, passing over the. exceptionable parts of the note,'
Ir_kticrit. he could not ,but reprobate the insult offered
to the dignity of the Nation, in the passports having
11..:11 so long withheld after they had been demanded:
The terms ()tight to have been discussed rather than the
-form, at a'time, when the French Plenipotentiaries
had so far recognized the basia of aanal possession,
that there was reason to hope that they might be
brought to agree to satisfaelory terms. There was a
p issage, in • one of Lord Lauderdale's Notes, .on re-
suming the,Negetiation, which he did not like to see
there, namely, that in one of the French Plenipoten-
tiary's Notes there was something like an insinuation
that an advantage was intended to be taken by
land in the appointment of a second Negotiator,
and it-was. on this passage that Lord Yarmouth bad
been recalletL,• At" this time we were 'negotiating
separately from Russia, and all the time previous to
this period had been wasted by England in discussing
the basis, whilst both parties comprehended clearly
the basis of actual possesSiOn, siXbje& to exchanges
upon equivalents. Here' comrbenced another stage
of the Negotiation, when the intelligence: was receiv-
ed of the non-ratification of D'Otibrirs Treaty.—
On the 13th `of September Lord Lauderdale agreed
to a conference upon the terms; and:whether or
not the terms the French Government was then dis-
posed to grant would be gloriOus for this-Country,
whether they would be such as RUssia would be likely
to approve of, be should not then inquire. 'But if what
bad been. done On the 18th of Sept. had been done
.on the tlth , of August, when Lord Lauderdale had
repeated 'his application for his passports, he was
of opinicin that
.a Peace might havebeen. obtained.—
As to the- Priissian war, though he was not then dis-
.

pds.ed tocomment upon the condua of that Power,
in the.same manner as under other circumstances,

for herpolicy dui-ing the last fourteEn years, he could.

tiot but observe, that she appeared in a moment of
aradiii:Ag to have rushed into a war that has brought
on the ruin which has f..)llowed. It has been much the
praCtice to talk of thicruerty, injustice, and rapacty
of the enemy; but we should extend our view over
the whole . scene, before we applied'such terms to
the condo& of any Power, or blindly employed lan-
guage that can have only the effe& of rendering all
Governments implacable. It was not certainly upott
the theatre of the present War,. in the heart
of Poland, that' the Powers ccintending against
France should rise their yokes to accuse her of
injustice, spoliation, and rapacity. :When we go
into the field ourselves, we should see that we
are free from stains before we lavished such

charges upon our enemy. And certainly, when we
comidered our own condua in the East, we could
net with justice accuse our enemy on the score of
inustice and atrocity. He had approved of the
Peace of Amiens, and reprobated its rupture-i and in
this he had been supported by the wisdom of the
great Statesman now unfortunately no more, and by
the talents of his Noble Friend. That Peace'-took
every thing from rus but Ceylon and Trinidad, though
it left Malta in an unsettled state.. We might now
have got Malta and the Cape in full sovereignty, and
Pondicherry, and would have to cede only their
West India Colonies. As to the making Sicily a siqe
qua von, lit.shonld ;not presume to state any thing'
against the wisdom of such adetermination of Mr.
Fox. But if even Russia had ratified her Peace, it
would have been ignominious for us to have abandon-.
ed it when.once we had taken it under our proteaion.
Another point had been Dalmatia. This Country
had been ceded to Austria, by the Treaty of Lune-
vine, with the Venetian States ; but 'the third Coali-
tion, which he had never yet heard ji:itified, Which
bad been the most unjust, ill-ad Vised; and-illLcon7
duaed scheme that 'ever :had been devised, defective
in every principle-and marked With duplicity at-its
outset and, in its progress, that Coalition led to the
eacie of Presburgh, which gave Dalmatia to France.
She certainly did not. deSire Dalmatia fordefence, but
for Qffeusyo purposes., France had shown a reiaa...
once to give that. province' up to Russia, and it'was
Worth considering, whether or not it was an-objeal
with England and' Russia for Dalmatia 'to Continue
the calamities of war. As to the Turkish Empire,

the integrity of that State was stated,' by- both
RUssia and France, to be an4thjeell dear to them,
and was equally menaced by both. The French
end ROssians carried on continual intrigues at
the Porte, arid we assisted' the Russians, because it
Was 'More for our interest that the Russian influence
should prevail there. If, however, France- had any
rs,,al designs on Turkey, it would be long before she
could he established tiler( whilst' Russia was oh the
oilier side, 'and even then the 'danger to Indian' pOs.
'sessions would be doubtful, but certainly 'reinote.
He. Lid 'stated his , Views thus in detail, because
he had a—decided Objaion to :the Address as it
,stood on, the The Papers did not appear to
him to justify the declaration; that the Negotiation
tad failed in consequi.'-'nce of the injustice_ and ambi-
flan of. France. We were not vet -arrived at that
state in which peace.rnay not be made, and he hoped
and believed a peace might be brought about. He was
convinced of theSineerity with wh:ch the King's Mi-
nisters had songhtfOr peace, but in his mind they had
Mistaken .the way. If Lord Lauderdale had done, on
the t t th of Augdst, What he had done on the 18th of
Sept. he was of opinion that Peace might have been
„made,
,and war with Prussia prevented. In one of
• Lord Yarmouth's conversations with Talleyrand, that
Minister declared, that the bitterness Which was felt
at the commencement of the War had in a very- great
Measure sub Sided, and the French Government 'was
more pacifically disposed, and he was glad to find,
in the last note from that Minister to Lord Lauder-
dale, that the French Government was still ready
at any future time to renew the Negotiation -for
Peace. He would hot recommend a resumption
of the Negotiation at present; nor that we should
sue, ,under any circumstances, to any Government
for Peace. He was willing that' We should'follow
the example of Russia„ in stating' that we were
ready to renew the Negotiation on jrist conditions.
We were engagei 11i a contest that called for every
sacrifice, and we were prepared to support it with
the most fervent loyalfy and attachment; but it was
desirable that the roads of peace should not be block-
ed up, nor the gates of mercy shut. He had pre-
pared an Amendment, which he proposed to move, to
the Address, to this- died but As.he had not-had
any communication with any Gentleman upon the
subjeEt, he did not know whether it would meet
with- any support;. but if any Gentleman thought
with him, he would nevertheless-second'his Motion,
and at any rate it would 'be read from the Chair.
The Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving an
Atnendment to the following purport, Which was to

be substitued:for the latter part of the Address
" To assure his Majesty of• the firm determination
of that House to co=operate with his Majesty in call-'
lug forth the Resources -of the. .Inited_.Kingdom, for
the vigorous prosecution of. the War in which this
Country is• unhappily still engaged : and to express
to his Majesty aH earnest request, that. his Majesty•
'will, in his paternal solicitude for his People as far
-as may be consistent with tbe honour of his Crown
and the interests of his Kingdoms, afford every faci-
lity to the.-restoration of the blessings Of Peace."'
Mr. G. JOHNSTONE seconded the Motion.
.•

Mr. CANNING expressed his surprise that no
attempt was made by any of his Majesty's Ministers
to answer any of the-observations which had fallen
frOm the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last. Had
the same opinions and observations come from his
side of the House, or from any supposed intention to
produce, a popular
,impression unfavourable to the
condua of Administration, in what a high and
angry tone would they net have been retorted. But
such were the dear ties, the habits of intimacy, and
syinpLithy of sentiment which have so long pre-
vailed between that Hon. Gentleman and so many
of his friends in office, that whatever might be his
strain of reasoning, so satisfied were they that no-
thing unfriendly could be intended by him, that
they allowed it to pass without any notice; .much less
animadversion: He confessed there was much of that
Gentleman's speech in which he coincided, while he
was obliged to differ from him in many of his con-
elusions. He could .not help remarking the dif-
ferent tone respecting the conduit of the enemy,
which the Noble laird (Howick) and the Hon. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Whitbread) assumed on the pre-
sent occasion.—They, distinguished as they were
• for talents and integrity, had often displayed
-their eloquence,as advocates of the same enemy.—
But he begged.leave. to .be understood, as referring
'only to the arguments and observations which these
distinguished Statesmen so emphatically dwelt upon
in the numerous discussions on former Negotiations.
He should now advert to the three.points which the
Noble Lord had, on a former day, anitnadverte.; upon
as having been stated and canvassed by him. The first
respeeted the overture of Peace coming from the Ene-
my : The 2d; the basis of the uti.poasidetis which was
adopted by the British Government to negotiatenpoh :
3d. The nature of our alliance and connection. with
Russia, and our good faith towards our Allies. He
was now perfe&ly satisfied. that the overture first
came from France : his having advanced a different
opinion had proceeded from the'linterpelatiens and
- fabrications which marked the publication of the
official documents by the French Government. He
must continue to think that the mode in which the
correspondence was openedappeared unworthy of the,
mind and charaaer Of the greatman.by whom it was
,commenced. As to the good faith which Govern-
-anent observed towards our Allies, it afforded him
great satisfaeciora in one view of it. Indeed, with re-
aard. to the manner in which it was• evinced towards
Itussia,- he could not help thinking RuSsia was made
our debtor ; while) at the same time, he was willing
even 'to confess, that although no such stipulations
and bonds had united us to Russia as those with
which we were bound, yet a large and liberal pO..
liey would have prescribed the mode of, condua
which -we•, had acted upon towards- her,' There
was, however, a great chasm in the Correspond-
ence, which must have left unexplained much of
the nature of that connexion and concert between
the two Courts. He was aware, indeed, that prta-
dence 'and discretion might justify these omissions,
and he was ready to give Government credit thr not
disclosing it. He must.. beg leave, nevertheless, to-
observe, thSt while good faith was adhered to, the
policy of the thing should have been overlooked. It
might be asked, what should.be the result of a corn--
blued Negotiation between two great PowerS ? Not,
surely, that they should be, obliged to agree on all
and every point. Such restrialoh musteOlten impede
orxetard the. march of any Negotiation. The great
object of the policy of such a combivatiOn should be;
that the two great Powers thus combined should shew
and convince the worldethat their joint efforts were
openly
_and steadily directed to rwscue Europe frOM
its present :state of thraldom, and secure its inde-
pendence for the future. These views it was not po-
litic to conceal, , whether we were to negotiate se-
parately.-as to form with
,Prsia, or jointly as to
substance.. The spirit and ohjed of the Negotiation
should not only be known. here, but he held forth
to. the knowledge ofeill tlfe world: Was this joint
resolution, however,.. made known at Berlin ? Was
it known at :Vienna ? Was it' knpWil tO.Europe
Did 'loathe notion entertained of it create desperi-
dency
.and despair. at Berlin ?
:See how it is men-
tioned in the Prussian Manifesto : attend to the
mischievous effeets which the ig'norance • a it there
produced.. Werefnot the stipulations believed to' be
hostile to Prussia ? Were, not both Codits supposed
to.negotiate separately, and both to negotiate to 'the
disadvantage of Prussia ? _But it will be said that was
a misrepresentation. Granted.' But did we not
furnish the French Government with an opportunity
of successfully availing themselves of.such a misre-
presentation ? But did not. the distinct courses pur-
sued by M. D'Oubril and LordYarmouth give suf,
ficient countenance to such a 'supposition ? Then
every mishap should not
,be imputed to the blind
infatuation of Prussia.—Now a word' or two on the
third point—the basis of the uti pos,sidetis. The
more he considered that point himself; and the more
.he consulted the opinion of others respeaing it; the
more was _he convinced that the Papers on the
table‘ did not make out the charge urged against ~
the enemy, that be opened the Negotiation on that
basis, and _that they departed froth it. This-1
was an issue of fad ; and were The 'evidence
brought forward in support, and laid- before .an
ordinary Jury, it would be found not proved.—
But the House will be asked, have you not heard,,
the explanations and assertions of Lord Yarmouth,
and will not you believe them ? No doubt, the wind
of a Gentleman, of a man of honour, is not to be
questioned; delicacy forbids it in private inter,
course, and he should be the last man in the
world to doubt the assertion of the Noble Lord.--:
But, as a public man, as a Member Lef Parlia-
ment, as a person looking to what this .Country.
and Europe eapected, he must consider only what
appeared on the face of the ,correspondence ; there
he must look for prOofs, and there they were not to
be found. It was certainly indelicate and ungener-
ous, if any such slip had got into the'Declaration;
to rest it wholly on the assertion of the Noble Lord.
Nor was that all—should a paper -so hastily worded
as the memorandum of the Noble Lord be made -

ing.

to appear the deliberate Sense/of the Sovereign .? In
short, m 'such Matters, if you speak wrong, you act
wrong : for upon the' mode of expression every
thing turned in the Negotiation, therefore it was of
essential importance ! With regard to the uti possi-
detis, he had an:cc:things to observe-Ist, That the
fact of its existence was not proved--edly, That it
was not of the importance attached to it-3dly,
That if it was proposed Ministers did not go the
right way about it. As to the proof, he observed,
before, that it . rested only on parole evidence, and
thatie was unfair to make it bear solely on -the
word of Lord Yarmouth. Besides, if that Noble
Lord did not happen to be' a' Member of that
House, the House would have had no proof et all :
but this was mere accident, and the other House
of Parliament had not the -same advantage.—
All the arguments and reasoning of, Ministers went
to establish the principle of actual possession. But.
it should be observed, that the terms uti possidetis,
status quo antebellum, &c. were like axioms adopted
in the severer sciences : you start from them to
argue, not argue to arrive at them. This, however,
is what has been adopted in this Negotiation. In=
deed it is not easy to account for' the studious eva-
sion by Mr. Fox of the use of all technical phrases,
while M. Talleyrand, was forward to employ them.
The ,latter proposed the -stipulations of. the Treaty
of Amiens ; the former objected to them -as a
basis, but proposed two principles, out of which
a basis might -• be ' formed ; but never eXpress-
ed it by any of the usual technical terms. Indeed,
there was bothibg in the whole course of the Cor-
respondence from which it can be inferred that
the uti possidetis had ever been acknowledged by
the Enemy. How is Europe to know that such is
the feet ?—Will they believe it from the mere asser-
tion of- any Member of that House ?—This parole-
evidence will not avail there, and hence the dif-
ficulties that must arise to future Negotiations from
. the publication of such non-official communications.
In shOrt, in his opinion,- this defence would never
have been set up were it not for a certain Pamphlet on
the State of the Negotiation, which he was set-,
prised was not officially disavowed; or rather been
diSavowed in the most unequivocal way,- by pu-
niShing the Author or Publisher of it : its libellous
obervations on our magnanimous Ally surely called
for some animadversion. But by that Pamphlet we
bad-been informed ,that the communications-f,-om
Lord Lauderdale only would be laid before the Pub-
Ec. On them the Declaration had been framed.-
- dnd when the. uti possidetis was-referred .to it be-
came absolutely necessary to make it out. But in
his opinion that attempt has every where failed.
Indeed any other basis would have answered equally
well, or rather Much. better, or More aptly taken
in Sicily,- which was the great stumbling. *block.—
Naples and Hanover it did not embrace either--
where, therefore, was the great importance and
necessity of it as a-basis`?—lt surely was not worth
all that it has cost. The violation -of Lord Yar-.
mouth's .feelings, upon whose shoulders_ alone it
is impressed, and- the length of time wasted in
attempts to establish it. As to Making the French-
Negotiators retra& their denial of having ever ad-
mitted it for a basis, nothing contd. argue such
ignorance of human nature as such an endea-
vour.: in short; the whole of the efforts to
nego-
tiate only proved servicable to France ; and; as
far. as they were advamageous 'to France, they
%-'Ol-10 detrimental to England. There were several
periods at which he thought the Negotiation might
hate been more beneficially broken' off than at the
time- it . was * discontinued ; for example; when the
basis of the zit/ eossidetis was refuied to be acknow-
ledged, or when, the reeports had been refused to
Lord Lauderdale, ant so insulting an excuse offet'ed
for the. refusal and 'delay. As to the concluCt of Lord
Lauderdale, he saw nothing to blame in it; he thought
there was more room to commend his forbearance
than to censure his abruptness or intemperance; as to
any ex:',-essiori, such as that proposed in the Amend-
ment of the Hot). Gentleman; he perhaps rather
lamented than rejoiced at the unsuccessful ter-
iaination of the Negotiation ; and that because the
• present state of Europe afforded such slender hopes
that any well-comb:ned etlbrt could be made to check
the career and arrest the ambition of the Ruler of.
France. Was there any fair prospeCt of such an
event, he would' lament- that any such NegOtiation
should have succeeded.
Lord H. PETTY rose in reply, and principally
attached himself to prdve the existence and the im-
portance of the basis of actual possession as obje&ed
to,by Mr. Canning. The existence of it was every
where to be colleaed from the replies of M. Talley-
rand, and its importance and utility were 'abun-
dantly proved by the unfair attempts made by the
French Negotiators to get rid of it, when circum-
stances arose that seemed to justify the assumption
of a favourable ground for their pretensions,—The
.Noble Lord concluded by adverting to the observa-
tions of a Learned Gentleman (Mr. Percival), the
other evening, oe what he termed artifice on the one
baud, praaising on simplicity ow the other, and de-
fended' his Majesty's Minis_ ters from the charge of
having been duped.
Mr. PERCIVAL repeated his accusation of Go-
vernment for having been the dupes of the enemy.'
He entered into an elaborate examination Of the
Papers, and animadverted with severity on the pri-
vate correspondence . between M. Talleyrand and
Mr. Fox, although he disclaimed the slightest inten7
tion of imputing corruption to the latter. Alluding
of M. --Talleyrand's Letters to Mr. Fox, in
to onewhich
he addresses him in terms of high encomium,
he said it was difficult to believe that the French Mi-
llister was not quizzing the English'aone.
Lord HOWICK defended the memory of, his' Il-
lustrious Friend from what he termed the ill-timed
scoffs of the Learned Gentleman. Every part of
the private correspondence between Mr.-Fox and.
M. Talleyrand . bad :been seen by his Majesty.--
He then- answered at considerable length the ar-
gpments that had been adduced against his Ma-
jesty's Government, and declared that as the Head
of the French Government had shewn a resolution
not to sheathe the sword until he had compelled the
British to relinquish all connexion-with the Conti-
nent, we must contend to make him abandon that
resolution, or perish in the attempt. .
Mr. WIIITBriEAD and Mr. Pattelyat. each said a
few words in explanation. After which the Ad-
dress
was agreed to, and ordered to be presented to,
his Majesty. by such Members as belonged to his
Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council.
Adjourned at Half-past Five iiCleck this More-.

ARit ry ED —2 •DUE--1 Gottcriburgh, 3 Waterford.

THE SUN.

SOLEM QUIS DICERE FALSUM AIIDEAT?

L N D 0 N,
TUESDAY, JANUARY 6, 1

kr a late hour last night. Foreign Journals
of a very late date reached town ; but we are pre-
vented by the great length of the Debate from ,
making very full ex.tra&s from them : Indeed •
the intelligence they contain is not of much
importance. French Army in Poland has
received some considerable reinforcements, and it
is said that in a short time it will amount
to 300,000 'Then. This is evidently a very gross
exaggeration. The Austrian Troops, according to
a Letter froth FrankfOrt, have withdrawn from Bo-
hemia and Moravia, and only form a slight cordon
upon the frontiers of Gallicia.
These Papers do not contain any account of
the War which is said to 'have broken out be-
tween Russia and Turkey, nor do they give any
intelligence respe&ing Military operations, except
in the 37th and 40th Bulletins, which we
.have

extrataed.
THIRTY-SEVENTH BULLETIN OF THE GRAND