The Sun.
London, England, 1825-04-06 00:00:00

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WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 6, 1825.

THE COItN LAWS.

lU.EIa AND.

-- ..,..--
( Fran the Liverpool Advo,'.:ier of Saturday last. )
A Meeting is about to be held in this town,
for the purpose of petitioning
Parliament for some alteration of
the laws restraining the importation of foreign grain. We take
ON THE STATE OF I II EL.k ND.
the opportunity to state, as concisely as we can, what we be- •
Here to be the effects of the present Corn Laws upon wealth of . R,I6TIARD SHELL, Esq. examined.
the community. The wealth of the community arises solely What is your opinion of making a, Government provision for
from its labour. There is no other means or source of wealth the Catholic Clergy ?—I am convinced that the Roman Catho-
than labour. The national wealth, then, must be most rapidly lie Clergy would accept of such a provision if Roman Catholic
augmented, when the whole labour of the community is be- Emancipation were to precede it.
stowed or expended to the best advantage. If, then, a certain Would they accept of it without emancipation ?3•LI am sure
portion of the labour of the community, hestowed- on, ma- that they would not.
nufactures, willeprodtreee by the, barter of those manufacturee, a , Do you think that it would cause any jealousy on the part of
greater quantity of corn than that labour expended on the cule: the RomareCatholic Laity ?—I think that if the provision to
tivation of corn could produce, it must be a saving of the na- be granted by Government were to be subject to the controul of
tional wealth, or it must augment the national wealth to ex- Government, in individual cases there would be much jealousy,
pend that labour in the production of manufactures, rather than because the appointment would he referred to unworthy motives;
in the production of corn. Now it is certain that corn cannot I think the provision for the Roman Catholic Clergy must be
be purchased from abroad but with commodities in the produc- 'made in its-allocation to individuals, independent of the Govern-
tion of which less labour has been expended than would have ment.
been necessary to produce the corn at home; if, then, we import You think that it must be allocated to the duties, and not to
corn, in place of producing it, we must save labour, we must the persona ?—I think there must be an allocation made to the
save or augment the national wealth. If by laws we prohibit, duties, and the persons to be paid for their performances, must
or throw obstacles in the way of this importation of corn, we he selected by the hierarchy and not by the Government; I
dissipate the national wealth, or retard its increase. Suppose. ,think it would be very injurious that a Parish Priest, receiving
the Government to enact that the inhabitants of the West India three or four or five hundred a-year of the Treasury, should be
Colonies hall be compelled to grow alltheir own corn, and rear, _named by Government.
their own provisions: the impolicy is glaring; we see at a glance Do you think Catholic Emancipation would be a perfect
.that the labour of the Colonies would, in part, be diverted from measure without the payment of the Priesthood, and without
a more to a less gainful employment. But how does tliis case raising the qualification for the exercise of the EleCtive Fran-
differ but in degree, from that of these countries being corn- chise ?—With respect to the raising the qualification of free-
pelted to grow their own- corn ? it is precisely the same thing. holders, I am not, perhaps, very competent to judge, for . I
If the Colonies could grow corn as cheaply as they can import hare not resided much in the country parts of Ireland, nor am
•it, that is, at as small an - expense or sacrifice of labour, they I much acquainted with the lower orders, but lam well ac.
would certainly not import. In like manner, we would not im- quainted with the Roman Catholic Clergy, and, in my opinion,
port a single barley-corn, if we could produce as cheaply as we -if a provision were granted. to them; provided always it was
could import. If we do import,- we do it because we can do it made independent of the Government (that is indispensable)
advantageously. By prohibiting that importation, this advan- the result would he, that the lower orders would not be alien-
tage is taken from us ; the wealth of the community is more or ated from the Priesthood, hut that the influence of the latter
less sacrificed.
would continue to be usefully and legitimately exercised, that
This general statement and conception of the matter is plain, they would be perfectly reconciled with the Government, and
and most persons will assent to its justness when urged in this- that the Roman Catholic gentry would be induced to send the
general and abstract manner; but when the question he put in younger members of their families into the Roman Catholic
some other forms, the truth is not so easily discerned. The Church, a better system of education would be established, and
following statement is often put forward on
the other aide, and the intellectual. habits of the Priesthood would become more
many assent to its plausibility. If the price of corn is raised refilled.
to the manufacturer by the restrictive system, the producer of You mean, that the provision should he inalienable, after it
corn is thereby ' only enabled to -b; the 'better customer to was once granted ?—_l mean that when a vacancy occurs by the
_the manufacturer; he gets a higher price for his corn, the death of a
Parish Priest (1 take the case of a Parish Priest as
'manufacturer puts a higher price for his goods; the matter is an example) the person who is to succeed is not to be selected
thus equally balanced, and there is no loss. But that there is a by the Government; that is all I mean to say. Irthe appoint.
1031 somewhere, there can be no doubt. There is a waste °furore ment were to be made by the Government, two evils would re-
,or less of the labour of the community, otherwise there is no suit; in the first place, the-lower orders would be quite alienated
:truth in what has been said above. This leads us then to con- from their Clergy (which would be a most serious evil); and
eider the precise incidence of the loss, where or on whom it falls, in the second place, I conceive that unworthy persons would be
The price of corn is not Of much importance to the manufac. appointed.
curer as a consumer in his own person. As a mere individual. Bow is this appointment made at present P—The appoint-
consumer, the farmer suffers as much as the manufacturer by a merit of the Parish Priest at present is made by the Bishop.
high price of corn,. since he must cat the dear corn as well as The Roman Catholic Bishop of the Diocese has the absolute
the manufacturer. But the importance of a high or a low appointment to all the parishes within his diocese ?—Yes.
price of corn is in regard of wages. If corn is high, wages Do you think any interference whatever, direct or indirect,
must be high; and if corn be low priced, • wages will be low._ on the part of Government in the appointment of the Bishop,
They, then, who conceive and urge this bllance of accounts would be equally objected to ?--I myself; at one time, sup-
between the farmer and manufacturer, must suppose that as ported what is commonly called the veto. My dpinion was,
wages rise, the price-of the goods of the manufacturer rise also. that Roman Catholic Emancipation, or in other words, the
But this is hot the fact : the manufacturer cannot raise the price 'liberty of my country, ought to be purchased. even at some
of his goods in consequence of a rise of wages. It is plain that hazard; but I think the measure of a veto would (I will not
a rise of wages, which is always general, does not affect the ma- say whether on just or unjust grounds) be extremely un-
nufactureronly, but all other employers of labour equally with popular.
him. It affects, then, the farmer not less than the manu- Do you mean by veto, the giving the Crown an absolute
facturer. If, then, the manufacturer were to say to the farmer, veto ?-1 do ; but I think any interference in the appointment
in consequence of the rise of wages,l cannot afford my goods as ..of Bishops objectionable; I am not sure, however, whether in
cheaply as before; the farmer, who is equally an employer of - the course of two or three years, when the- people had become
labour, could reply, that the rise of wages affected him equally, : t habituated to the exercise of this restrictive power, the public
and that, therefore, he could not afford to sell his corn on arty feeling would not become, if not reconciled to it, at least
lower terms. If the rise of wages raise price, then to the higher apathetic on, the subject; but I certainly arm apprehensive, that
price to which we suppose corn to have risen,.in consequence of it the Government possessed, without- ever directly exercising
the prohibitive system, and the consequent difficulty of produce this power some suspicions as to the rectitude of the motive* of
tion at home, upon the proper soils, to this higher price, we say, men in Office interfering in the appointment of Bishops would
the farmer would have it in his power to add still more in conse- exist, and that suspicion would in itself be an evil which ought
quence of the rise of wages. As then wages rise with the price of to be avoided.
corn,thisnew addition to the price of corn would again raise wages, ' When you express that the Ronian Catholics would consent
corn,an
dthainsdntehwisraiu gmseote. wages would again enter into the price of to the freeholder's qualification being considerably raised, you
augmented price of corn would again raise wages, conceive it would be a general measure, extending to Protestants
and so on ad infinituni, or ad absurdum, whichever you please : as well as Catholics ?—Certainly ; if a distinction was taken,
the thing is plainly impossible to be -conceived. To return, our elections would be scenes of religious agitation.
then ; the rise of wages does not raise prices, but lower profits. ' But that the qualifications for Presbyterians, Dissenters,
It can be no otherwise, since price is obviously constituted of e Churchmen, and Roman Catholics, should be the same ?
wages and profits, and since a rise of wages cannot alter prices, Yes ; and I think that when the election law is about to be mo.
with a rise of wages profits must fall; there is- no other fund dified, it would not be injudicious, if persons having beneficial
out of which the increase of wages can be paid. The precise chattels real, should be entitled to vote; a man with a lease for
incidence, then, of the loss to the country, from a forced high .9P9 years, which yields him forty or fifty pounds a-year, should
price of corn is no profits. It lowers the profits of all trade and have a vote. .
manufactures, consequently retards accumulation, impedes the Do you think an arrangement of that kind, which would dis.
progress of national wealth, and cramps the activity of national qualify persons actually in possession of that franchise, and
induetry.—lt is a curious corollary from this reasoning, that which they had exercised, and never abused, would give satis_
the farmer is hiinself the first at least, if not the most, injured : faction to them ?—I think the great body of the people of Ire-
by a rise in the rise price of corn. The farmer is not properly land, particularly the freeholders, are greatly swayed by the
a labourer, but a capitalist, an employer of labour; his gain, is ' higher class. I am sure that Mr. O'Connell's influence is so
profit, not wages. Now, as he in proportion to his capital is - great, that if Catholic Emancipation were passed, he would re-
an employer of much more labour than the manufacturer, and concile them to the surrender of that, which is to a great extent
as with the rise of the price of labour, that is with the rise of but an imaginary right.
wages profits fall, the farmer must suffer a loss of profit greater I Do you think he would- reconcile
.the Presbyterian Diesen-
in proportion to his capital than the manufacturer suffers, , ters to it ?—There his influence would be without effect ; I
much of whose capital is sunk in machinery, the profit on ; am not at all acquainted with the North of Ireland, and I can-
which is, of course, not affected by the rise of wages. True I not say how the Presbyterians would feel—but with respect to
it ies,qucathapilisitlaelddy;taonbtoiangtaeyneuwtfleamyiceethntehhsies
ibmsyannowutfacturer has over the far- ? the-South of Ireland, I believe the tenant who has, by virtue
prices, always
mer in a rise of wages, may occasion a diversion of agricultu- 1 of forty shillings, a qualification to vote, would yield what is
rhael
allvmaeerraisno 1
rbeu;reat.wretched appendage to his few acres of land without much
delights in high
an advantage from I Supposing another gentleman would arise, who took another
them, that he will be slower to comprehend his true interest view of this from Mr. O'Connell, and should protest against
than other capitalists •; and if he should even transfer his ca- the opinion of Mr. O'Connell, and should:hold that they were
pital to manufacturing industry, or any other, lie at least, are in possession of this right ; that it was a right they had always
we said before, is the first sufferer by the much-desired rise of exercised ; that they had never abused it, sonic person like Dr.
the price of corn. All this seems, we acknowledge, a little pa-, Doyle for instance, do not you think lain might create a consi-
radoxical ; but, upon consideration, it will be found, we believe derable . I South f Ireland favour of retaining
party in t leo
to be just. We are not unobservant of the fact, that in a rise, the elective franchise ?—I think not; I think, indeed, that
of prices the holder of a lease will gain, perhaps, by the rise of the lower orders in Ireland can be easily influenced by an ap-
his produce more than he will lose by the rise of wa res till th peal to their religious feeling • they feel greatly irritete at see-
expiration of his lease. But we are to fix o tte el' ' h e ' " ' h
uspeoanvemudlluvei
huaatlsh;baerntdy a
tos
Live
franchise,point on which hdiochn
otth
leases are perpetually being renewed,
studies upon the general interest, not u.r a.
individual.;
ion in t ese mg every e rotestant the
faneyhciaeicgrltiainp,mfbfirt-sthewl;'
et passes t em their superior ;where is
tehyinakreausoyrein;diwviidthuarleswpoeucltd tobetlamehleeketo-
suppose the whole interest in leases being at any moment re excite any permanent feeling ; the subject is not naturally con-
newed as being permanent. On the ne -
w leases the landlord nected with religion.
will demand an augmentation of r
the pri of o , ent, equivalent to the rise of Being easily excited on subjects connected with religion,sup-
ce c rn, so as to wave the tenant in no better
condition posing those to whom they looked up in religion were to consi-
than any other capitalist. The f • '
from . . . arming interest generally, der this a diminution of their influence, and were to protest
then, so far having any interee '1 •
s in ugh prices of agricule against it, do not you think the influence of persons who took
Iproduce, h ' • •
rural have, an especial interest the
other way •itis in that view of the subject, might create a considerable impressi
some degree more their interest than tl ' ' '
on?
le interest or naanufac- —I think that the Roman Catholic of the lower orders, could
tuning capitalists, that the price of corn should be low. The not he induced to think that his religion was endanged' by
owner of the soil, then, is the
only party in time community be- general modification of the elective iranchise. On the sub•eca
nefitted by the restrictive system. The poorer soils, from which of the Veto, the Clergy have naturally exercised a ver • cojnsit
no rent was yielded, which were not, perhaps, cultivated at derable influence ; but there is no such connection 3 he-
al], are taken into cultivation, and come to yield a rent • tween the elective franchise and religion, which would '
while the rents on the better soils are necessarily 'of . .
_.
greatly any man the means exciting the religious passions on that
augmented. This is the poor advantage the count reaps ground.
from a system which impedes the progress and prosperity ofoccurredrecently, in
Have not cases
every department of its industry. The injustice of Um: toxin g which the influence of the Priest has been v y },really
. exerted?
the whole community for the advantage of one class is suffi- No d übt about it ; but the influence of theer-P
Emancipation,
elections
ciently apparent. but it is even worse than this. If the inte- °from the question of Roman Catholic
rest so favoured were of great value to the moral frame of the anronese other. It is in reference to that question that it
and
society (as perhaps the landed interest is in fact), a tax mightlively exercised. If a Priest came forwardat la exclu-
be submitted to, if it took no more front the
pockets of the directed the people not to rote for an ma who would not sup-
contributors than was necessary for the object in view but it • t reform, the people
port Parliame y_ would not listen to him ;
is not so of this tax. A portion only of the tax finds'. tells them not to vote for
into the pockets of the landlords ; the rest is utter hiss, ibts way but whenhheect
atholic Claims, he makesanayn man who will not
son of the ill direction of the labour ;—and with every descent
suppor.t
.t
e _, is 'ustified by reason and soundappeal, which, in
ense Ile could
to poorer soils, to which we are forced by the prohibitive sys- Iny
opinion,
pjroduce any impression on the not,lowera orders, ex-
tern, more and more labour being. necessary, and being bun' some subject immediately involving profitably employed, the proportion between the gain Cif the' crept
on
d collaterally connected with it. Creligious ques-
andlord and the loss of the community becomes more striking lion,
haensai apt,
d ce do not vote for any man who will vote for the
in favour of the latter.—Such is a slight sketch of the eel! of aredisqualifying of the freeholders " would not he
our Corn Laws. Now, when a spirit of knowledge pervades the itninoni 11 am sure he would, not; and lam sure
an lin.
Government, in regard of all things tending to the national • would feel no interest in the subject, and would n
re t
.e priests
wealth, it will be strange if this evil be suffered in its present In the county of Dublin the clergy exercised influ
oett interfere.
magnitude. Its giant bulk makes other impediments, which last election, but it was on a subject in which the clergy
at the
the path of
are now being removed from the national prompeel d ommon concern—, besides the • and
people la a c , . ~ easslollB of. the
city, seem but of dwarfish size. It can hardly be doubted, ipresent extremely innammahl
,people are at e T : 1 • ...t s oniv
that our liberal Ministers would gladly overthrow it if they necessary to apply a spark to set them on fire but - '
might ; but the time of their power tor do
8° is Yet, we fear, .now it would be impossible to excite the people on; a sub'een
hardly arrived.—Meanwhile, it is,tihrotig 1 the influence of pub
not involving their relieion, and if emancipation w ject
- n were passed ' speedily pr •.1
lic opinion that those who desire te change will best' advance different feeling would spec Mil , anti the power 1.
their object: a film and general
or public
opinion of the advati- excitation would be diminished, because the popular passionos
to es and necessity of the repeal the corn laws will be goed would be allayed.
reason and support to Minis , Leis when they shall '- '
eetemi the J. Sepposirg the.cml. isa 1 an Catholics were
time fitting for the experiment-
removed, and that in a county election• th •ere
were two can< f •
i.
•

EXTRACTS FROM THE EVIDENCE GIVEN BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE OF TUE HOUSE OF COMMONS,