The Sun.
London, England, 1825-03-19 00:00:00

31ILK COMPANY,

Mr. T. WILSON presented a petition from the Cowkeepers
sad Milk-sellers of London against the several Joint Stock
Companies for the Sale of Milk. The Hon. Member support-
ed the prayer of the petition. '
Mr. ROBERTSON warmly advocated the cause of the pe-
titioners.
Mr. GRENFELL begged leave to call the attention of Go-
-•erlment to the present uncertain state of the law respecting
Joint Stock Companies. The Lord Chancellor had intimated
his intention of proposing some measure, but as yet those in-
tentions had not been put into execution. He hoped that some-
thing might be soon done to settle the doubts which at present
greatly agitated the public mind.
Mr. .1. S3I ITH said he could speak from his own experience
or the magnitude of the evil. New Joint Sock Companies
were proposed every day. Within the last twelve hours no
less than three had been submitted to him. It was the case on
every other day of the week, Sundays excepted. Some of the
schemes were extremely ridiculous. but still the interest of the
.public required that the law should be settled.
HUSKISSON said that he was called upon to state his
opinion of the law as it existed, or to state the intention of
Government. If any new law was necessary it would best
become those who knew the evil to propose the remedy. If a
declaratory law was necessary the doubt as to the existing
law ought to be first distinctly stated. When the evil and the
doubt were made known to him he should be ready and willing
to confer with more learned persons for the purpose of deviz-
lag some remedy. He had paid great attention to all the new
Companies, and he thought that the Partnership-law applied
to them generally. It was certainly a great folly for specula-
tors to interfere with the ordinary concerns of life and trade,
and attempt to take them out of the proper hands. If they ap-
plied to Parliament, then Parliament would know how to deal
with them, but until then they must be left to their own course.
They could not last long. The eyes of the people would soon
be opened to their folly. The old modes of trading must be
recewed. Individual sidll and enterprize would drive the Joint
Companies out of the market. The good sense of the nation
would cause their destruction. Although they were absurd, still
they were not illegal ; when the illegality or the evil was brought
s thstantively before him, he should know how to act, until then
i.ie,could do nothing. He was sorry for all parties concerned,
but it was art inconvenience which ought to be left to cure

Ltr. GRENF ELL explained.
lir. Alderman BRIDGES defended the character and good
effects of one of the Milk Companies, with which he was ac-
quainted. It had the effect of bringing the. milk sellers to a
s.!nse of their duty.
Mr..l. P. GRANT said that the existing law was inoperative
in consequence of the high penalty attached to it. The Go-
vex:tit:eat therefore ought to take the subject into consideration,
and alter the penalty.
The Petition was brought up and ordered to be printed.
Lord A vritottrE presented a petition from the Deputy
Steward of some Court in Vest Derby, praying that such Court
.rught ri,_,st be abolished under the County Courts Bill.
Lord A LTHORrE presented a petition from the Inhabitants
of Daventry, in favour of the County Courts Bill.
Mr. P. CoitnETT presented a petition from John Hardy and
others, for compensation under the County Courts Bill.—Re-
fermi to a Committee.
Mr. MAXWELL presented a petition from Paisley, against
the Attornies Tax.—Ordered to Iv: printed.
Mr. CALVE ftT presented a petition from the Inhabitants of
Ware, against the House and Window Tax.—Ordered to be

p: inter;. -
Sir R. VYVYAN presented a petition from l'owey, in Corn-
wall, against the Roma' Catholic Claims.—Ordered to he
punted..
Mr. II t73IE moved for a Return of the Amount of Fees re-
mit-Fed in the Registrar's Office in Bell-yard (Temple-bar), for
the Registry of Deeds in the County of Middlesex for the last
three years, and the manner in which those fees were disposed
. . . _

Mr. Cour.nunN presented a petition from the Dean and
Chapter of Peterborough, against the Claims of the Roman
Catholics.— Ordered to !ie on the table.
Mr. S. litcf: presented a petition from the Chamber of Corn-
nwce, cf Limerick, praying for an Amendment of the Law
mating to Bankers.—Laid on the table.
Mr. COURTENAY presented a petition from the Mayor and
Corporation of Exeter, against the Catholic Claims.—Ordered
to lie on the table.

CORN AVERAGES.
Mr. HIJSKISSON begged permission of the House to refer
to a conversation which had taken place in the House last night,
upon the subject of a Return made to the Orders of the House,
in which the names of Claude Scott and Ca. were inserted.
-Having been called upon by the lion. Member (Mr. Scott) who
.fek-himself implicated, he had felt it his duty to send to the
lispector General of Corn Averages for an explanation. From
hie statement, in answer, it appeared, that a return of the
names alluded to was made to him by the Inspector of Ips-
wich, but owing to a doubt which he entertained as to the ac-
cm racy of the return, there being no such persons at Ipswich in
corn trade, he had struck the names out of the return. In
consequence, however, of an order of that House for a return of
oil the names which had been struck out as fictitious, the In-
spector General found himself under the absolute necessity of
inserting these names amongst the rest. He (Mr. Huskisson),
however, had no hesitation in saying, that a more improper
transaction than that which originated this fraud upon the In-
spector never was practised. A more respectable character than
that aspersed there was not—(llear, hear, hear!)—and the
*sole business was altogether a daring and impudent attempt
to impose spot: the public. He could not entirely acquit the
lAsiector of Ipswich of neglect in not being aware that there
w;•Ve no such persons at Ipswich in that line. Ile had desired
the Inspector General of Corn Returns to make him a written
report of the facts of the case, which he would shortly lay upon
the table of that House, in order that the refutation might be
ss.that aspersion.—( Hear !)
The Small Debts Bill, and the Debts Recovery Bill (Scot-
land) were referred to a Select Committee.
COLONIES.

Mr. HUSKISSON gave notice, that on Monday he would
mate to refer the 43d and 44th of Geo. 3d to a Committee, in
wl;ich he would move on the subject of the Colonial Trade ;
and on Friday following on the subject of the prohibitory
system.
IRISH MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.

The House
_having resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply,
Mr. °MILBURN submitted the Miscellaneous Estimates
fat Ireland, and proceded to move the usual Grants. The first
Grant was,
For the Protestant Charter Schools in Ireland - X 15,650
Mr. HUME said, he hoped no more money would be asked
ciin this head, until they had the Report of the Commissioners
before them. He very much objected to money being laid out
bg.purehasers of land and houses until the sense of Parliament
wait taktn on the subject. Yet this was done with many an-
,ntud grants of this nature.
GOULBURN said, that this sum was merely on ac-
count, and the Commissioners' Report would lie on the table
before a farther grant would be requisite.

The mu aunia were—,
For the Society for Discountenancing Vice - - £ 5,160
Educatioh of the Poor in Ireland - 20,000
We J. NEWPORT here repeated the objection urged by

the lion. Member for Aberdeen to the practice of laying out
money, which was annually granted by Parliament, before the
question was submitted to that House.
For the Foundling Hospital - - - £24,478
Lunatic Asylum - - - - - - 5,840
Soldiers' Children Asylum - - - 7,550
Hibernian Marine Society - - - - I,aoo
Mr. HU3IE, upon the passing of the last vote, complained
of the amount annually voted for charities in Ireland,--these
amounted to no less a sum than 340,0001., and had greatly in-
creased of late years.
Mr. GRATTAN observed that a great portion of this vote
was for the promotion of education in Ireland, which ought not

to be called charity.
Sir T. LET BRIDGE said that England, be was sure,
would not complain of the amount of this sum. The education
of Ireland it was one of the first duties of that House to pro-
mote. . . .

Mr. 310NCK said, that to whatever amount charity was
given, they might rest assured that it would be Absorbed to the
last farthing. This was e:Tecially applicable itt the case of a
Charity for foundlings.
. Mr. CURT EIS recommended the adoption of Poor Rates in

Ireland.
Mr. LOCKHART contended that the system of Poor Rates
was a great evil.
Mr. C. GRANT thought that there was something faulty in
the principle of some of the institutions to which these chari-
table votes had reference. He particularly alluded to the
Charity Schools, which he thought tended more to the promo.
tion of vice and idleness than to any good end. He could wish
they were gradually removed.
_ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought his

Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Goulhurn) would have been veil pre-
mature had he extinguished all these charitable grants at once.
The condition of a capital like Dublin naturally required a
number of charitable institutions for the alleviation of misery.
Tl•e next Grants passed were—
For the Female Orphan House - - - £1,761
Westmorland Lock Hospital - - 2,734
Lying-In Hospital . - - - 2,885
Dr. Stevens's Hospital - - - - 663
Fever hospital - - - - - 3,892
Hospital for Incurables - - - 400
Roman Catholic Seminaries - - - 8,928
Cork Institution - - - - - 1,900
Dublin Society - - - - - 7,000
To the Commissioners for widening Streets In Dublin 1,000
For the Farming Society - - - - 2,500
Royal Irish Academy - - . . 300
Linen Board of Ireland - - - - 19,913
Mr. HUME contended that this Board was wholly useless,

and kept up at an enormous expence.
Mr. GOULBURN said, he did not think it consistent with

the interest of Ireland to abolish this Boord. The prosperity
of the Linen Trade of Ireland was an essential object in the
Government of that country, and it was a most delicate ques-
tion to meddle with.

Mr. T. WILSON hoped that the Board would be abolished
at no distant period.
Mr. TRANT spoke against the continuance of the Board.
Sir GEORGE HILL said, that the Manufacturers of el.e.
Province of Ulster always expressed the utmost satisfaction at
the labours of this Board.
Lord A LTHOR PE, on general principles, should be against
the grant; and from the opinions expressed by Hon. Gentle-
men connected with Ireland, he thought with his Hon. Friend
behind him, it was useless.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT complained of the rooms in the
Linen Hall of Dublin being given away to favoured individuals,
instead of being let, that the profits might be applied in lieu of
this grant.
Mr. HUME, after what had been given in evidence right
and left, hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would join him
in opposing the vote. The Right Hon. Gentleman would be
inconsistent if he did not vote with him (Mr. Hume). He
therefore moved, that instead of 19,938/. should be substituted
the sum of 9,9691.
Colonel BRAGW F,LL bore testimony to the benefits confer-
red on the people of the South of Ireland by the Linen Board,
and supported the grant.
Mr. TRANT explained.
Mr. Secretary PEEL deprecated any precipitate decision
against the present Resolution. He would remind the Com-
mittee, that in an elddress from the Throne in the reign of King
William, it was recommended to destroy the Woollen, and en-
courage the Linen Manufactures of Ireland. He mentioned
this to show that the question was one of feeling as well as prin-
ciple. He would also remind the Committee that one object of
the Board was, with a moral view, to extend the linen trade
to districts of Ireland which had not hitherto adopted the
manufacture, and where the inhabitants needed employment.
He threw out these suggestions in the hope that rather than
withdraw the grant the House would gire the people of Ire-
land notice that they could not expect the hpon to be per-
-1 petual.
Mr. GRATTAN said, the grant merely gave a certain num-
ber of Gentlemen a certain number of Spinning Wheels to be
distributed in their neighbourhoods. Ile must also observe that
not a single item of the expenditure of these 20,000/. was speci-
fied in the estimate.
Dr. LUSHINGTON conceived that the grant exactly pro-
duced an effect contrary to what the Right Hon. Gentleman in-
tended by voting it. Nothing could be more detrimental to
Ireland than to create a factitious trade in any branch of indus-
try. If he did not press a division at
.present, it was only on
the understanding that it would not again be submitted to Par-
liament.
Mr. GOULBURN said, if the principle of the Resolution
was bad, it was a principle constantly advocated by the other 1
side of the House. What was heard for a long time from the
Gentleman opposite but entreaties to give employment to the
poor of Ireland ?—( Hear, hear !)--Why then refuse this grant,
when it proceeded on the very ground laid down by Hon. Mem-
bers themselves? The Committee would leave the country in
a most awkward dilemma if they withheld the grant, and left
the statutes still in force upon which it was founded.
Mr. GORDON thought the first thing to do was to stop the
money, as a means of having the laws alluded to rectified.—
He could not help, on this occasion, remarking a striking dif-
ference between the mode in which public charities were ma-
naged in Ireland and in England. The Governors of the latter
acted gratuitously—those of Ireland were paid considerable
' salaries.
Mr. GOULBURN must beg to set the Hon. Gentleman right.
The executive officers only of Hospitals in Ireland as in Eng-
land received salaries, and not the Governors.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged to
remind the Hon. Gentleman opposite, that a Committee had
reported upon the present subject, and had effected much good
by recommending the abolition of the Linen Bounties. As to
the application of sound principles of Political Economy in the
present case, he must observe, that it was not easy to intro-
duce them among a people who, from the opposite course pur-
sued towards them for a long period, were unprepared for so
material a change of policy. It would be very imprudent, he
thought, in a country like Ireland to plunge into a new system
at once, although Toone could doubt the expediency of ulti-
mately, and under different circumstances of general freedom
of trade.—(Hear !)
Mr. GORDON explained.
' Sir GEORGE Hill wished to remind the House, that the
value of the Linen Trade last year amounted to a sum of five
millions, compared with which the present grant was trifling.
He must also remark, that the Linen Manufacture was not one
which could be carried on by a few individuals possessed of
large capital. It was principally carried on in the poorest do-
mestic circles ; nor did he believe, that even in the wholesale
part of the trade was more than 20 or 25,0001. invested in it
by any single person, and the great advantage of the existing
system was to give employment to the poor.
Mr. HUMF. conceived that as the mode now practised in
Ireland was abolished two years ago in Scotland, and in con-
sequence proved highly beneficial in that country, there was the
sanction of experience for his proposition. The Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Peel) said something was due to the feelings
of Ireland,—but he considered the Linen Board an insult to
the people of that country, when, among seventy-two indivi-
duals connected with it, not a solitary Catholic could be found.
He should therefore press his present motion, and if it should
be carried, and that owing to the reduction of the grant any
old and deserving officers were deprived of their situations, he
should not object to give them reasonable compensation.
Mr. J. SMITH thought it impos,ible to apply the prin-
ciples of political economy generally in Ireland. If it was im-
proper to grant these sums, a charity with which he was concerned
two or three years back, had acted most injudiciously—for it
voted a large sum to the very same purposes. It was a con-
solation to him to know, however, that the sums expended in
the way now proposed had afforded employment and subsist-
ence to several thousands of the people. If it was true, as stated
by his Honourable Friend, that in the whole number of
Trustees there was not a Catholic, he truly regretted it—nor did
he think that peace and prosperity would ever prevail in that
country till all religious distinctions were abolished. . Almost
every speculation for the benefit of Ireland which had originated
in the greai metropolis during the last one or two years had
been communicated to him (Mr. J. Smith), and he uniformly
found that, before supporting them, the first demand with the
public was—Can you inform us what will be the fate of the Ca-
tholic Question ?
Mr. C. PELHAM said a few words, which were inaudible in
the Gallery, when the Committee divided.
For the Grant - . - - - 78
For Mr. Ilume's Amendment - - 17
Majority - - - - —59
Several resolutions were then agreed to without opposition.
On the vote of 3,6)111. for the Board of Inland Navigation in

Ireland, Mr. II t:mV considered the grant as useless, aril moved

that it oe reduced 2,000/.
After a few words from Mr. ClotTLfturt:.•, Mr. GORDON,
and Mr. W. Sum', the douse divided.
"'

•
For the orixinal grant - - . - .. yo
For Mr. Ilumc's amendment - - - 27
Majority - - . - _ . -48
Several other resolutions were then agreed to, when the House
resumed, and the Committee having reported progress, obtain-
ed leave to sit again on Monday.
The CHANCELLOR or the EXCHEQUER then moved
the other orders of the day.
DISSENTERS' MARRIAGE BILL.
The second reading of the Dissenters Marriage Bill was
postponed to Friday next.

ANNUAL DUTIES BILL.
Mr. SYKES called the attention of the House to the Sugar
Duties, and contended for a reduction of the Duty on East
India Sugar. Ile had gone along with his Majesty's Ministers
in all their efforts to produce a system of free trade, and he in-
sisted that the bounties on West India Sugar were opposed
to the course which Government in other cases had pursued.
The bounty was, in his opinion, a benefit to the West India
Planters, but an equal loss to us. Such conduct was, besides,
an injustice to our eastern possessions. Our superiority in
the manufacture of cotton had destroyed the cotton manu-
facture of the East 'lndies, and unless a return for our pro-
duce could be obtained from the East, our commerce with
that quarter could not be successfully carried on. Upon
this subject he would quote the authority of Mr. George
Ilibbert, who, with the West India Commute, agreed that
the bonus on West India Sugar was about fis. per cwt. which
amounted to 1,116,000/. annually. For what was the bonus given?
To bolster up the West India Interests, and keep up a system
of slavery. The system of bounties he should ever deprecate.—
Free trade he wished to uphold. The Hon. Member had wit-
nessed from time to time the allowance of bounties, and he was
assured that ultimately they were not serviceable. Bounties
had a tendency to increase colonial labour and promote slavery
in its worst character. A greater quantity of Sugar was pro-
duced with bounties and there must be a greater exaction of
Slave labour, thereby depriving the Negroes of the time
which ought to be allowed for rest. It was also attended by
decrease of human life. In the Bahama Islands, where there
was a moderate share of labour, there was an increase of the
I
black population, to the amount of three and half per cent—ln
Jamaica, there was a decrease of human life. In Demerara,
where there was a great production of sugar, there was a de-
crease of three per cent. in human life. The extra produce of
sugar had invariably been attended by detriment of human life.
The lion. Member contended, upon the whole, there was a de-
crease of slaves in the West Indies, where sugar was produced
upon too large a scale.
Mr. GORDON was surprised that the Hon. Gentleman who
spoke last should have come down on that occasion to make
what he considered a tirade against the West India sugar trade.
The effect of the increase of the West India sugar trade was
known to be advantageous to the negroes ; property in that
trade promoted the comforts of the negroes. The calculations
of the lion. Gentleman had been founded upon an erroneous
view of the question. The bearings of the East India sugar
trade ought to be regularly brought forward, and then it would
appear that the West India Planter was entitled to a remune-
rating produce for his produce.
Mr. ROBERTSON wished the question between the West
and Fast India Sugar Trade settled. The Hon. Member pro-
posed to emancipate the slaves and remunerate the masters.--
He thought 15 per cent. on the sugar would be sufficient to de-
fray the expence which the emancipation mightrequire. He did
not propose to have the emancipation too sudden. The slaves
should work for a limited time, having three or four days in the
week allowed for free labour. That would produce habits of
industry proper to prepare them for emancipation.
Captain 31ABERLEY said, the West India trade was a
losing, trade, and the sooner the country was rid of those Colo-
nies the better. if we did not get sugars from the West Indies,
they could get them from the East, from Brazil, and other
places. The Hon. Member supported the view taken by his
Hon. Friend.
Mr. BLAIR supported the West India interest.
Mr. R. ELLIS admitted the arguments of Gentlemen, and
the soundness of their principles, anti he objected to the appli-
cation of those principles to sonic of the eases. He objected to
the course taken by which artificial restriction anti encourage-
ment were applied to the colonial system, without looking at
other questions. On that view he opposed the argument of
the lion. Member who commenced the discussion on this sub-
ject. Whilst it was the practice of the Legislature to encourage
the agriculturists at home, rather than the cultivator abroad,
the old colonists in the West Indies were intitled to claiM an
advantage over the- Colonies of the East. By taking cotten
from Brazil and Georgia they not only encouraged slave
labour, but the slave trade. They could not avoid encouraging
slave labour in the West Indies, and other Colonies, unless they
were prepared to sacrifice great commercial interests. The
Honourable Gentleman adverted to the arguments in favour of
free trade, and observed that one great advantage had been
overlooked. The sugar refiners at home had an advantage
over the Colonists, and before they could apply the principles
of free trade, the British refiner and the Colonial refiner must
be placed on the seme footing.
Mr. F. BUXTON wished for the appointment of a Com-
mittee to ascertain what really were the advantages derived by
the %Vest India Sugar trade. In his view of the subject, re-
duction in the price cf sugar would reduce the growth, and
consequently labour would be reduced. It was impossible to
contend that the decrease of sugar in the West India Islands
would not lessen the labour of the slaves, and promote their
comfort.
Mr. THANT thought the discussion of slave labour in that
House would produce the worst effect. Upon the motion for
a Committee upon the question, he should be prepared to de-
deliver his sentiments.
Mr. BRIGHT called on the friends to the West India trade
to look to the measures to be brought forward during the pre-
sent Session and do justice to the West India planters. Much
had been said upon the reduction of life by increase of slave
labour, and a contrast had been drawn between the slaves of
Jamaica and those of the Bahama Islands ; but the fact was,
the negroes at Demerara and other colonies were wholly unlike
the slaves of Bahama. The Hon. Member said he should not
have then on that occasion to offer any opinion, had he not
found his Majesty's Ministers silent on the subject. The Hon.
Member strongly supported the IVest India sugar trade.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to ex-
plain why he had taken no part in the discussion. The fact
was, this Bill had gone through the stages to the third reading
without one word being said on the subject of duties. He had been
told it was true, that an opportunity would be taken by Gentle-
men to state the view they took of parts of the question, anti
they had done so without proposing any alteration or amend-
ment of the Bill. Under these circumstances it could not ap-
pear disrepectful to the House if he did not take part in the
discussion.—(Hear, hear !)—The Right Hon. Gentleman felt
that this was a question so much involved in delicate considera-
tion, that it would be inexpedient to push any doctrine to its
most rigid extent. The scale of duties was the scale of last
year, and it was not deemed necessary to give any other scale.
The question was then put, and the Bill read a third time
and passed.
Mr. WYNN obtained leave to bring in a Bill to regulate
the salaries of Judges in India, anti to authorise the Supreme
Court of Calcutta to transport criminals to St. Helena.
Mr. HERRI ES gave notice that he should move the Con-
tingencies for the Civil Service on Monday.
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'Clock to Monday.

COMMON COUNCIL.

-a,n___

Yesterday a Court of Common Council was
held at Guildhall.

A Petition was presented from sundry retail Fishmongers, in
relation to the Bill now before Parliament, respecting the Me
tropolitan Fish Company, which was read, and referred to the
City Lands Committee.

The Deputation appointed at the last Court, to wait upon
the Chancellor of the Exchequer with the resolution of the
Court, respecting the Assessed Taxes, delivered in a report
upon the result of their conference, which was read, and she
Court came to a resolution thereon, which was ordered to be
advertised.—( Vile advertisement in our first page.)
The Tithe Committee reported their proceedings in respect
of Tithes, which was read, and it was referred back to the
Committee to proceed therewith.
The Committee for General Purposes reported in relation to
the Carriage-way of Blackfriars Bridge, and recommending
the same to be raised to its former height, which was read, and
Mr. Ja3tEs MONTAGUE, the Surveyor thereof, was called to
the bar.of the Court and examined thereon, and after consi-
derable discussion it was referred back to the Committee to re-
consider their Report.

The Lords' Committee on the state of Ireland
resumed their sittings yesterday, and examined
Major• General EGERTON and Mr. ABBOTT. The
Committee then adjourned to Monday next. Mr.
O'CoNNELL's examination, which lasted two
days before their Lordships, is finished.