The Sun.
London, England, 1825-05-11 00:00:00

the vien, order of reasoning. The friends of that measure ad-
vocated a great principle, and those who opposed it supported
the. exception to that principle—and after legislating in this-
Way for thirty or forty years, could they now affirm that they
kid placed Ireland in a situation in which we could rely on
nne loyalty and fidelity of its inhabitants ? The course pur-
sued with respect to the Roman Catholics was something
like that which hitherto had been adopted with regard to
f,Artign trade. Whenever a proposition was made to reduce
tne duty on importation, some one immediately rose and ex-
cleimed—" See at present, notwithstanding the high duties
and restrictions, to what an extent smuggling prevails—if you
reduce them it will extend still further." In like manner,
whenever the reduction of the Distillery Duties In Ireland was
named, a similar alarm broke forth of the rapid production of
illicit spirit which such a step would generate. But when
his Right Honourable Friends dared to make the experi-
ment in spite of these prognostics, the decrease of smuggling'
end illegal distillery instantly ensued. Instead of wasting
time .with a symptom, they struck at the root of the disor-
der—they .removed the cause of the evil, and it vanished.—
So he. would say of the Roman Catholics—if they are disloyal,
remove the occasion of it—if the existing laws produce disaf-
fection, take that as the ground to operate from, and rescind
those laws—if the Catholics indulged in illegal- proceedings.
deprive them of all reason or pretence for doing so ; and if
they gave their confidence and support to an Association
which it became the duty of Parliament to suppress, let not
the. House, by a pertinacious adherence to the policy which
created that Association, perpetuate in the hearts of the
Irish its memory and its name. But then it was objected that
the present measure would introducr anomalies in the Con-
stitution, and open a passage to dangers. Let all these anotna-
des and dangers be heaped together by Hon. Gentlemen, and
then he would say to them the same anomalies and dangers
,t in . the present state of things. It was easy for his
en. Friend to remark upon persons having two oaths to
ake on entering office, if this Bill should pass. But he had an
neiwer to inform him that the anomaly of two oaths had existed
the last 110 years. His Hon. Friend also noticed the ano-
em Ily of having a King who was bound to be a Protestant,
-fan le. his Parliament and Councillors were exempted from- the
lition. - But let him bear in mind, that although the Act of
le dement provided that the King should be a Member of the
eite.stant Episcopal Church, it allowed him to have his whole
enn.,euncil Dissenters or persons of no religion at all.—(llear On_
F..7.t was now said, too, that this Bill for the first time would ac-
'knowledge the right of British subjects to hold spiritual com-
munion with the See of Rome. But by the 18th of Geo. 111.
by which the Popish Bishops and Clergy were obliged to
swear that they do not acknowledge any temporal foreign
audtority in the Realm, did not Parliament, by implication, re.
connise their voluntary submission to the spiritual power of the
Pore ? In the Establishment of 'nlaynooth College, which was
expressly sanctioned, and the doctrine and discipline of which is
by law vested in a Board of Roman Catholic Visitors, was not
voluntary communion with the See of Rome acknowledged?—
And this led him to another of the anomalies, namely, that
henceforth no Protestant Member could take the oath of Su-
premacy.—He should, however, he glad to know in what sense
Protestants have heretofore taken path, when, as he just'de,
monstrated. the spiritual authority of the Pope for the I isSt half
century had been recognized by various Acts of the Legisla-
ture.—( Hear, hear!)—He meant a voluntary submission to the
religious supremacy of the Pope-enot• any thing which could
have the force of law. 'With respect to those who contended-
that dangers would exist from the repeal of the Jaws affect-
ing Catholics, he should only ask, was the moral operation of
laws so ,utterly forgotten, as to let such a sentiment escape.—
Did Hon. Gentlemen forget that in Ireland the laws would
operate not on passive beings, but on those having feelings
susceptible of every attraction. Of every free Constitution
this principle was at the foundation, and it was the source of
our own greatness and freedom. Just laws worked their own
objects, and secured the loyalty and support of the.commu-
-nity for which 'they were framed. But his Honourable
Friend referred to the evidence taken before the Committees,
to chew that the Catholics ought still to he excluded ; he Pin
C. Grant) was confirmed by that evidence in the opposite ; and
when he reflected that this evidence was now not only before
the. English people, but would be disseminated over the Conti-
nent of Europe, his expectations of its beneficial consequences
we're much increased : for all who were accustomed to converse
with enlightened foreigners must have felt the severity of their
taunt whenever any instance of intolerance or apprehension
abroad was mentioned—namely " look at the. state of Ireland."
Hear, hear!) —Was there net cause then to rescue England from
the stain thus cast on her—was it not time, he would not say
to emancipate Ireland, but to emancipate the English people
from the stigma which the Penal Laws fixed upon their chit-
racter ? Hear, hear,. bear I)—But to return—he should not
enter into the details of the evidence which his Honourable
Friend bard adverted to ; although he thought be had dealt
too severely with Dr. Doyle, a Prelate whose private virtues,
lie understood were equal to his acknowledged talents.. He
• certainly regretted that Dr. Doyle had allowed himself to
write the letters signed J. K. .14., or at least that to the
energy and the eloquence of Bossuet he had not added, in
those productions, the meekness and Christian charity of a
reneron. He did not at the same time see much discrepancy
between the writings and the evidence of' that Bishop.—
The 'latter appeared to be given in the spirit of one friend
conversing with another, and the other to have been
composed. under feelings of acute exasperation. And when.
he considered the charges which proceeded from the press
and the pulpit of this country against the Catholics, it was
not astonishing that they felt their natural feelings of indig-
nation rise up against such calumnies, moreover when the Le-
gislature stamped their religion as a crime—(Hear o—and exn
eluded them from that wide field of ambition in which the rest
of the nation expatiated at pleasure. His Hon. Friend,,(Sir it.
Inglish) and likewise maintained that the e.xisting, laws did not
affect the mass of the people. Now he put it to his Honourable
-Friend's constitutional knowledge, if' it was not one of the most
sound and sacred maxims of this free State, and the highest offi-
ce!' were open to persons from the lowest orders of the people.
Were the Catholics then so different a race from the Protestants
that to them this solitary maxim would not apply ? Could his'
Hon. Friend recollect the inspiring influence which this Con-
niitutional truth had on the people of England, and exclude the
people of Ireland from its benefits ? Many there might be upon
whom the maxim had no effect; but oil the other hand, to its
operation we owed all that energy and exertion which charac-
terised us as a nation, and raised us to the exaltation at which
we had-arrived—it excited that hope and ardour which diflbsed
itself through all the ramifications.of our affairs, et magno se
corporc ;nivel. It descended and animated the lowliest cottage
in this country, and why should it not be felt by the humble
peasant of Ireland? Why should the Hon. Barn disbelieve the
testimony before the Committee on this subject—Why, if Par-
liament firmly relied on the evidence of. Dr. ill`Nevin and Mr.-
'Pandyeshould they now discredit that of Mr. O'Connell and
Dr. Doyle? Bat he should not refer to the testimony of Ca-
tholics—he should adduce the testimony of the lion. Member
for Loudly (Mr. Leslie Foster). When he was asked did he
think the Catholics generally conceived themselves interested in
the fate of Emancipation—His answer was, that all the upper
ranks, and all those immediately above the mass of the popu-
lation felt the greatest anxiety on the subject, and the greatest
discontent at the existing laws." He was then asked, did not
this feeling tend to repress the exertions of the upper classes
ill putting down movements of. insurrection among their infe-
liars? and his reply was, " That .he certainly thought it had
that effect." Was it to be presumed then that some, of this
discontent would not overflow on the mass of the people,
could . Honourable Gentlemen persuade themielves that such
a system, which paralyzed all the natural checks upon
popular commotion and turbulence was one that oughteo be
persevered in ? And yet such was the state of Ireland, that
while the present laws. created and spread discontent among
one class, they prevented the • other class from counteracting
the evil. ( Hear i)a,-He should. not, however, go into the gene-
ral evidence before the Committee, but he would suppose those
witnesses misinformed, and that, to know the real situation, it
was neceaaary to come to his Hon. Friend for a check and com-
ment on their te.stimonynn-(Hear; bear !)—They were at all
events persons of .the. greatest influence in Ireland, and let the
erroneous impressions be removed from their minds. lle
should not presume to trespass further respecting the evidence
but to say. thanit con firmed the opinions he always entertained
on this question. When he first voted in favour of the Catho-
lies he had done so froni conviction, though at an early period
of life. afterwards, when entering an office in Ireland, he was
told that experience and acquaintance with .with that country
and similar circumstances would change his opinion, and so
earnest and constant were these warnings that he almost doubt.
eat the propiiety of his own past conclusions. Ile determined
however to examine the subject impartially, and he did
so—but that cool investigation so far from having shaken,
confirmed his previous conviction—(hear.)—however it might
have mellowed his feelings and tempered his enthusiasm as to
the immediate results of such a measure. He spoke of course
se an individual, yethe might' be permitted to observe, that he
found in Ireland a strong harrier raised by the law between
the people and the Government. There appeared none of that
instinctive sympathy between the ramifications and the centre
of society which prevails in this country—there was nothing of
that delicate sensibility by'which the-connection of between six
millions of the people and the Head of the State might be
traced—which . .
Feels in. each thread, and lives along the line."
The population of Ireland was a vast mass moving in an orbit
of its own, and presenting only its dark side to the Government
of the country. It was not, however, to use the words of
Burke; an inert masa, it was one covered with- living beings,
and having disc-ontent lodged and nourished in its heart by the:
law itself. --(Hear, hear !)—The Penal Laws at present were, j
only efficient to'punish the Catholics, not to protect the State