The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-08 00:00:00

that all he wanted was good treatment and to be fairly
remunerated. He believed that two-thirds of the seamen
in the American service were British, and although the
Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) had said that
the Americana worked their seamen hat der and fed them
worse, he (Lord Granville) could not understand, if
that were the case, how it eras that so many of the Bri-
tish seamen should enter into the American service. In
regard to the statistical part of the subject, he suspected
from the manner in which the Noble and Learned Lord
who had last spoke had inveighed against statistics, that
he had found those statistics to tell against himself.—
(Hear, hear.) lie thought., however, considering the
high position that Noble Lord occupied—the many emi-
nent stwions end exalted offices he had held under the
Crown, as well as considering the commanding and sar•
castic nature of his eloquence—that he ought not to have
come down there and made the unjust and unprovoked
attack he had done on Mr. Porter—(hear, hear)—
of the Board of Trade. That Gentlemaa could not be
there to answer for himself; and, therefore, the attack
was all the more uncourteous. That gentleman having
been desired to melee up a statement of the comparative
increase which had taken place in protected and unpro-
tected trade, had stated that while protected trade bad
only increased 94 per cent., unprotected trade had in-
creased 200 per cent. That statement was in the main
correct, and it showed that the navigation•laws, instead
of increasing, was a drawback upon the increase of trade.
With regard to Denmark, where they could build
ships much cheaper than in this country, and conse-
quently had in that respect the ne7vantage of them, yet
it was a curious fact, that the direct trade of Denmark
should be three times as much as its indirect, and that
they were at this moment advertising for British sea-
men to man their vessels. So far as America was con•
corned, there could be no dread of competition. It was
true that since 1815 the tonnage of American
vessels had increased 108 per cent., the great increase
being on the coasting trade, while our trade had increased
45 per cent. But was there no difference in the popula•
teen of the e two countries? It was the fact, that while
in that time the population of this country had only in-
creased 57 per cent., that of America had increased 143
or 144 per cent. So that while the tonnage of American
ships bad increased as 362, its population had increased
36L He at once admitted that could he see the slightest
chance of this Bill injuring their commercial marine,
and committing the ravage on commerce which it
was predicted it would do, he would oppose it most
strenuously; but seeing that the people of this
country were as able to compete in shipbuilding, as well
as in everything else, he had no fear that any of the
evils predicted would befall them. At this moment there
was no country which had ships and sailors to compete
with them at once; the change must be gradual, and
therefore time would be given before the struggle came,
and as to the result of that struggle he had no doubt.
Lord BROUGHAM, in explanation, said that Mr.
Porter was a witness examined before the Committee of
their Lordships' House, and therefore it was his right
and duty to animadvert upon his evidence.
Lard COLCHESTER said before making any altera-
tion in these laws, they ought to learn what were the in-
tentions of their authors and what had been their re-
sults.

Lard STRA.NGFORD said that though he sat close
to the Noble Lord (Lord Colchester), yet ho could not
hear one word in consequence of the noise below the
bar.

Lord COLCHESTER resumed, but was equally in-
audible throughout. His arguments went to show how
protection had and would operate beneficially on the
capital, commerce, and interest of shipbuilders and sea-
men of this country.

The Duke of ARGYLE felt it his duty to give his
reasons for voting in favour of the Bill. lie considered
that there were three great general points on which that
measure should be discussed. First, on the principal of
free trade; secondiy, its own intrinsic merit; and,
thirdly, on the political situation of the country. On the
first he believed that his opinions did not disagree with
those of their Lordships. The arguments of the Protec-
tionists would go back to a repeal the reciprocity
treaties; but he confessed that he could see much in mo-
dern commerce to encourage them to go forward in the
principles of relaxation, although their acts miet not be
based upon reciprocity. It appeared to him thatseveral
natural cau•es were in operation to encourage the Baltic
powers in securing the direct trade to their shipping. In
considering the consequences of reciprocity, they should
also have some consideration for the certain conse-
quences which must have resulted from the adoption
of a contrary policy. They could not take a middle
course; they must have reciprocity either in restriction
or relaxation, and in either alternative it behoved them
to consider the results of this retaliatory policy. From
a very able answer to Mr. Ricardo's " Anatomy of the
Navigation Laws," entitl•sd " Mr. Ricardo's Anatomy
of the Navigation Laws Dissectee," it appeared that in
1815 the reciprocity treaties were passed, and that i❑
1830 the English tonnage reached the height from
which it fell in 1790, but which it had previously been
unable to attain. From the rettirns of the tonnage in
the Baltic trade, also, it appeared that the English
tonnage exceeded 22-fold that of the Baltic Powers; and
hence arose the presumption that when the Baltic
ships were admitted to competition in foreign quarters,
they would not very considerably distress them. If he
thought that this measure were at all calculated to produce
a prejudicial effect on the commerce of the country, no
consideration whatever—not even the threatened resig-
nation of the Government should induce him to support
it. But believing that it had no such tendency, he
should not hesitate to give it his unqualified and cordial
assent.

Tho Earl of ELLENBOROUG LI said he agreed with
his Noble Friend near him, that between the question
of free trade, and the question raise d by this Bill, there
was no connexion whatever. On former occasions, when
he happened to be in England, he bad voted for mea-
sures, the effect of which was to produce a relaxation in
their commercial code. Ile had voted for those mea-
sures because he thought they tended to increase the
wealth of the country, without danger to its essential in-
terests. Ile would vote against this measure, because
he bAieved, that while it might possibly tend to increase
the wealth of the country, it went directly to under-
mine one of its nearest and most important interests.
It was impossible to exaggerate the importance of
looking to the mercantile navy as the source from
whence the navy of the country WAS to be recruited.
Up to the present time they had maintained their supre-
macy at sea with honour and advantage to themselves,
and he did not doubt that were they called upon to
fight to morrow, their men would distinguish themselves
for their courage and national devotion, as they had
ever done. But the maintenance of their supremacy
would depend upon the issue of the fight, and though
he hoped it would not be doubtful, still he could not
disguise the fact that much would depend upon the
commencement of the battle, and that France at the
present moment was better prepared than they. She
had a larger disposable force ready to engage in Euro-
pean warrare, the same number of ships, with a larger
number of mtsn and marines, and better means of re-
cruiting them. In considering that fact, and the ease
with which a force might be transported from point
to point, by a steam navy, it behoved them to be ex-
tremely cautious how, by a measure of this sort, they
rendered their position still weaker by compa, ison.
The Noble Lard then referred to to a petition from a
body of persons in the West Indies, setting forth the
importance of the interests of trade, and of relaxing the
restrictions affecting it. He also referred to the Cana-
dians,
who, if any body were entitled more than another
to a relaxation in their favour of the restrictions on na-
vigation, were, in his opinion, most so; but he would
not, he said, be swayed by either West Indian or Ca-
nedian; he should rather be directed in this question
by a reference to the more immediate interests of Eng-
lishmen. He felt that if the inhabitants of the pro-
vinces of this great empire banded themselves together
in a mutual compact for mutual benefits, they might
defy the world, but if they made the acquisition of
wealth the aole and main object of their legislation, be
assured they would fall as other nations had done be-
fore them, and when they fell, it would be "unwept,
nuhonoured, and disgraced."
Tile Earl of CARLISLE rose, and moved that the
debate be adjourned to this day.
Their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter past Twelve
o'clock.

APPEARANCE OF TIIE HOUSE OF LORDS LAST
EVENING.—The lobbies and avenues to the (louse of
Lords last evening were crowded as early as four o'clock
by those persons who were fortunate enough to possess
Peers' orders to the strangers' gallery, which was crowded
to excess. The whole of the space below the bar was
likewise fully occupied, as it always is on the evening
of a great discussion . The space at the foot of the
throne was crowded by gentlemen possessing the right
of entrée. In the Commons' gallery there were
about twenty gentlemen, and the ladies' gallery, on
the opposite side, was more than half filled with
elegantly dressed ladies, who appeared to take a great
interest in the proceedings. The attendance of Peers
was early and numerous, the Marquis of Lansdowne
appearing in full dress—" his constant custom " on field-
nights.
DEBUT OF MR. F. PEEL IN THE HOUSE OF COM..
moNs.—The son of Sir Robert Peel, the newly-elected
Member for Leominster, made his maiden speech
last evening, in favour of the second reading of the
Bill for the emancipation of the Jews, and never
have we heard a more successful maiden speech. The
lion. Gentleman has all the requisites for an orator.
In voice, and manner, and personal appearance,
he bears a great resemblance to his illustrious
father. llis speech was not only eloquent
but logical, and full of sout.d sense. He i,
in every way worthy of his sire. lie was much cheered,
more particularly from the Ministerial benches,
and has evidently done that which few Members do in
a maiden speech, secured the ear of the House of Com.
moos.

BURGLARY.—A daring attempt was made on Sa-
turday night last to break into the back premises of
Messrs. Gi!lott, Admiralty tailors, 36, Strand; foiled in
their object by the strength of the fastenings, the thieves
turned their attention to the houses on either side, both
of which they succeeded in entering. They carried off
a considerable booty from the Lowther Bszaar, and did
much damage to Mr. Taylor's, No. 37, by breaking open
desks, drawers, &c., but fortunately did not find much
there to reward their labours.
The establishment of an American line of steam-
ships hc!..let.n New York i.nd Havre is no longer doubt-
ful ; mid the steam ship Franklin, which is as yet but
hal;-fini=ln.d, has been purchased for the service by
Messrs. Fox and Livingston, of New Yolk. Sho Kill be.
ready for sea in about three months ; and the keel of
a second steamer is to be immediately laid down.—
Livcrpool Albion.