The Sun.
London, England, 1814-05-11 00:00:00

CES :lON OP ,NOTM4Y.

The Order upon which their Lordships Were
Button-hued heir.g read,
Lord Gag If said, the slatjeet.to which he had
to call their Lordships'
,most Set ions and deliberate
attcution, was one of the greatest magnitude and
importance that ever came under the consideration
of a 11; itishParliament. It involved the funda-
mental principles, not only of national policy, but
ofruoral and political justice. They would have
dreide upon a subject implicating the national
rights of the people of Norway, and even the very
existence of that country as a nation. It was the
Cause of people wh.o were known to this Country
only by their inoffensive character—by their me-
ritorious pursuits of industry—by an interchange
of good offices; a people, a connection with whom
was- peculiarly desirable to Great Britain, who
hind shewn" every disposition to improve the con-
nection, by extending their amicable and commer-
cial relation's with its. Betore he entered intc4 the
subject, %illicit he had more directly. to press to
their Lordships' eonsitleration, he would call their
attention to the Treaty with Sweden, which was

:last year laid before the House. Of the prominent
it stipulations id that. Treaty he remained unalter-
ably in the sentiments which he had on a former
Occasion expressed upon it, and felt still con-
vinced, that British policy never sustained a greater
shock, nor the British character a deeper stiog,
than it' received from the stipulations of that
Treaty. Still, howevtw, in what he Was :lballt to
rocommend, it, was tar from his intention to urge
any thing ineonsisent with the good faith. and ho-
. of the country, in the fulfilment of: Treaty
to which they had heen deliberately, and solemnly
pledged, it it could be shown, by a fair construc-
tion of the Swedish Treaty, that we were hound,
under the circumstances, to assist that Power in
reducing Norway to its doMinion ray force, con-
sistently with good faith and ti e true of
I principles
,Hational justice. And in this view of the subject,
what he had to submit to the House would re-
ferpincipally to fair consideration.—First, whe-
tiler, under a fair constriteti,m of the,Articles.of
the Swedish Treaty, we bad contracted each tin
obligation as must he contended for, to juit ify the
measures now taken by his Majes-ty'a Cloven].
ment.,---Secondly, whether such an obligation cah
be maintained according to the principles of the
law of nations, and according to all the acknow-
ledgedaiithorities upon that siihj
titer the Ki,ng of Sweden, by a faithful perfotm-
n oce of his part of the contract, has entitled
14iinself it?eall upon this country to fl”iSt hiln by
its truce in attaining the object in question. ,Ault
lastly, whether sound policy, or the trne interests
of Great Britain, would jtistify the course of inea-
*tires now. adopting. On each of ttlese heads the
Noble Earl expatiated at great length (hut our

'very confined limits restrict us to a bile( notice of
soots of the principal points). De ro tended
Warmly, that by a fair construction, and in which
he was tile more founded by the explanations given
by its framers cm a former occasion, we had
not contracted sncli an obligation as called upon
its to go the length of blockading the ports of
Norway. =-Arlverting to the intervening circum-
stances, 'be argued the extent of our obligations
went 0111,1 to the ciindliet of Denmark with re-
,spect
.to the cession, and not to 'aissist in'coercing
tag: people of Not-wily to submit to a foreign domi-
nation, to a hick they were adverse. Such a line
of 'conlitict may• be %variant ed by the Treaty be-
tween Sweden and Russia upon the subject, hilt
not by that between the former Power and this
Country; the peikceable possessieikofNorwaywas
not ginuatiteed, by any fair reasoning it could not
,he contended that we a ere hound t,* such a gun-
, rantee. By the Treaty wi:h Denmark, concluded
iri January last. it ‘taoild appear that the cession
of NOrtViiy by Denmark %v.'s allowed to have !wen
madeas far as it waswas•in the power of the latter so
to do. "And tinder that cession we have etrin-pletely fidtilled, on our part, the relevant obliga-
tion in our Treaty with Sweden ; it was only in
case of the refusal 'of Denmark to agree to the
cession that the force of this country was to be
employeth This was clear front fair construc-
tion of •the Treaty; and were it
.doubtful7---were
the alternative between the performance of a law-
ful and an unlawful act,-7the preference was un-
qaestionably to be accorded to the former. It
was, in.tpiestions of national law and justice, pre-
cisely as in private and inviolate cases : Contraete
militating against the acknowledged principles
of ntoral justice told good faith, were void ab'
initia. After arguing these points at some length,
his Lordship adverted to the question of right as
inherent in Sovereigns, o alieriate or transfer ia-
tegral parts of their &minibus to other Powers.,
In this part of his disenssion, he referred copi-
ously, and read a variety of extracts from tile
Writings of Crotins, Pidendorff, Vette!, upon the
subject, and argued principally from those
tau-
thoritit's, that no such right was held, accOrding
to the sound principles of the law of nations, to
vest id Sovereigns. , On those principles, Den-
mark may have the right to cede its rights as a
Sovereign to absolve the people of Norway from
their allegiance ; but not to transfer the country,.
US a patrimonial right, or one of property, to ano-
titer Power. Such a right was not held to vest
even in the most absolute Monarchs, even in the-
SoVereign of Turkey. 7He regarded the distinc-'
tion hold by some of these publicistes, between
patrimonial and non-patrimonial rights, as futile ;
alit a short examination into the History of
Norway (at which he glanced) would, he
said, ,shew that ' it was not a patrimonial-
kingdom in the sense of the word content-.
plated by these writers. Its change in 1660,
front a 111;xed to are absolute monarchy, unit...
ed with that of Denmark, made a difirence
only in the fOrm of Administration, but nti dif-,
ferance in the essential rights of the Sovereign ;
consequently, taking it .even that point of
view, we could not be called upon to compel the
Sovereign of Denmark to do that which he had
no right to do. He assimilated the case to the'
hypothetical one of the Emperor of Austria
tempting to transfer his Sovereignty over Bohe-
mia or Hungary to, some other Power, or to
such a proceeding on the part of this Country with
respect to, Iceland, Could any man hold that the
people in such, cases would not be justified, in re-
sisting such an attempt, or that the good wishes
of every true friend to liberty and the true prin.
ciples of national justice would not attend their
efforts ? He referred to some instances in the his-
tory of this Country, with respect to the early
English dcminions in France, ill which territorial
transfers were made, and. where such were resis-..
ed on the part of the people, particularly in the
reign of Richard 11, The case of the,long resist-
auce of the people of Corsicanto Vrench domina-
tion wakalso adYerted to, and which he deemed to
be a case exactly in point with that in question ;
but the Noble Earl principally dwelt on the
transactions respecting Scotland in the reign of
Edward the First,'who had obtained a reintinera-'
tion front Baliol of his claims. This he deemed, in a
great degree, similar to the recent occurrences in
Spain. lie applatidegl,the heroic resistance made
by the patriot Wallace to the aggressive conduct
of the English Monarch, arid pronounced the con-
demnation and execution rat the Skittish Chieftain
an indelible stain on.the.charaeter of that other-
wise great Prince. Het:m.lllT then to the topies
more. immediately under consideration, he ad-
verted to the question, whether the King of Swe.;.
den had, by a faithful execution of the obligations
he had contiacted; entitled hiasell. to 'call upon
us for the farther performance of ours ; and, in
consideriog this point, be should have first to
glance at the conduct of one of the MibiAterialPf-
ficers, as not having dealt tagentioosly and fairly.
The paper which had been proiNced was dattMfront
the korcign Mice, 60 May, lifit4„ stating, that a
dispatch had been received from Ed.Thornton,Esq.
6th June, 181:3, from which it appeared that the .
number of Swedish .troops then in the. field borne-
what exceeded 30 thousand, besides some smaller
coops, parties of recruits, and front the landwher.
—The Noble Lord said, that he really expected
something more specific than this'. Ile did main-
tain that, the neglect in this instance was, highly
'criminal. Positive information was what 'he
wanted, and ahat he did not get. There was no
reason for
,this that he could assign, except that
Ministers were afraid that, if the information
which he wanted had been given, a strong case
of .neglect (as lie strongly suspected there was)
would have been made out against Sweden.
It) short,, that it would have appeared that, having
been paid up the whole amount of subsidy, Swe-
den had not faithfully fulfilled the .obligations
which by the,Treaty she had incurred. Fork sure-
ly, it could not be thought that our Ministers,
Mr. Thornton and Sir. Charles Stewart; had been
so deficient in their duty, as not to have been
in 'possession of such information as he had
required, and to :have. transmitted it to the
Pritiah Government at home. In his opinion,
the Crown Prince of Sweden had been guilty
,of a neglect of his duty. Could' that gallant
veteran Field Marshal Blocher be examined on
this subject, he was convinced. that be would
'give evidence to this effect. indeed, there 114

, •
bests complaints, strong complaints, against hie
Crown Prince of Sweden, between the termi-
nation of the armistice and the battle ,of Leip-
, sic. Subsequently to time battle of Leipsic,
he would ask Mott the Swedish Prince hail done,
what movement he had made, romlncive to the
genetal interests of the Confederation ?—Not one.
--No; he had first moved :Upon flaitover, and
then away towards the frontiers of Denmark,
where the only operations which he-carried on,
or could carry on any operation, connected with
the general intere;:ts'of Ehrope, but merely with
the views of Sweden twainst Denmark, for ob-
taining Norway.. On the I,lth January Pie treaty
between Denmark and Sweden bad been -Con-
eluded,' by whi,h tlie former ceded Norway to the
latter. On the 16111 of February, it appeared
that the Crown Prince had. penetrated as far
as Liege. Still no movement was made ley him
to cu-operate in the operations of the Allies.
fart, so palpable was his failure in this respect,
that at Liege, on the 16th April, where he remain-
, ed till that tittle, there was a kind of lame exposi-
' tion published in the public Journal of thstt town,
'emanating doubtless from.the Crown Prince him-
self, in which was set forth an explanation of his
'seeming inactivity. It was said in this paper that
no Swedish Min stet had beets invited to the Con-
gress at Chatillon, and that not‘vithstanding the
remonstrances of the Crown Prince, no Swedish
Plenipotentiary had been allowed to attend there.
was assigued as the cause of his inactivity,
and this was published. When ? On the 16th of
April ; after Paris had been in possession of the
Allies,; sixteen, days
,after the battle of Mont-
i Martre. It was a mockery to say that Sweden had
fulfilled her oblikations. There was ample proof of
her failure ; but if it were doubtful, there:was
need of explanation. Apia, he said, we had
not, and could 'not have,, any moral right to agree '
to such a treaty ; and if we had a right, we' were
absolved from its stipulations by the negligent
conduct, of Sweden. Farther on this point it
wes quite needless for him to insist, Ile would
now proceed 10 show that all the principles of
true policy were against such a measure. He
remembered that, when this point had been "ori-
ginally discussed, a Noble Earl opposite (Lord
Liverpool) had contended, that the true Italie), of
Great Britain was to have Norway united to SWe-
den, as such an [mina would secure toils the va,7.
Inable trade ot Norway. This argument had been
ably answered by a Noble Friend ot his, who had
justly mairtained that Seyeden was, by her natu-
ral interests, ,connected with France, and op,
posed to Russia, and that Russia was a country
to which Great Britain was netached by the
binding connection of reciprocal trading advan-
tages. Although by the restoration of the an-
cient Dynasty of France., We might look forward
to a long peace, those were 'shallow politi-
cians who thought that any thing had happened to
destroy that rivelship, which would of necessity
exist between Great Britain and France. He
hoped that Ministersiwould do every thing in their
power to conciliate the minds•of the.people of
France to A GoVernment introduced under such
extraordinary circumstances ; and that they would
be aware of the mischief that was to be nitre-
!tended from the idea that the restoration of the
ancient dynasty was the effect of conquest. As to
the' effect which would be produced upon the
commerce of Great Britain by the union of
Norway with .Sweden, his sentiments had nevef ,
changed. Indeed he doubted much' whether
it would not have been best for the interests
of Great Britain that Norway should have been
erected into an independent state. The spirit mani-
fested by the Norwegians, in
,particular, inclined
hint to this opinion. Viewing, however, the ques-
lion as one of policy connected. with justice, it
was the duty of Parliament to interfere,' and to
implore his Royal Highness the Prince Regent to
take Off the blockade from the ports of Norway.
Ile was 'aware that it had been contended that
the cession of Denmark had been merely nominal ;
and that it was not Norway that resisted, but
merely a faction instigated .by. Denmark. This
was a ease within possibility, but it required
strong proof. He was instructed to deny that
there, were any Danish troops assisting the Nor-,
wegians. Norway was entirely garrisoned by Nor-svegian troops, under Norwegian Conmtanders.
Since the, cession of their country by Denmark,
they had renounced their allegiance to the D,Enish
Monarch, and ,had prepared to assert their inde-
pendence With the last drop of their ,bloode
But if it was true that the resistance WBB merely
the partial One of , a Danish faction, the mea-
sure of blockading the ports of Norway was
neither necessiwy nor jost. It wis employ-
ing serious means to quell that which, of neces-
sity, would be soon pure!) end to, and was pu-
nishing a 'whole nation for the offence of a few
individuals. If the resistance, however, was made
by the people of Norway, be had ..already
de-
scribed the odious character which would ot ne-
cessity attach to such a measure as a bloCkatle, on
the part of Great Britain. If Denmark had really
(holy " kept the word of promise to the ear, but
broke it to the sense," it was against her and not
against Norway that Onr.foree Should be directed,
He knew that it had been said that the people of
Norway, by an, anion with Sweden, would he de-
livered from a despotic Government, and haVe the
.benefits of a Free Constitution. It was enough
to know that the people of Norway did not like
this offer.' It will not for Great Britain to ire-
tend to know what was for the good and happi-
ness of the people of Norway better than them,-
selves. He denied, however, that the people Of
Norway" had been despotically governed tinder
Denmark. But if tf.!..y had, they, might say, in
the words of the Poet,
---------" Better emlure-the ills we Intve,
Than siy, to:others that we linnw not of."

He would conclude that policy decided against,
the measure which the British Government had
adopted. It would he unpardonable if he sat
down without alluding to the similarity of the case
of the people of Norway to that of the Spaniards.
Ferdinand VII. had abdicated his, throne. If lie
had no right to do so, neither had the King of
Denmark to abdicate his right to Norway. It
would he said that Ferdinand haul been compelled.
Had the King of Denmark ceded Norway
rarity ? No than could say he haul. The question,
as to the two nations, rested on precisely the same
foundation. Lastly, as to the negociations which

it Lad teen Enid were going on respTcting
way. If any thing deserving the name of pegccia
lion on this sul,ject had been going 09, he %rang
have abstained from troubling their Lorikhips
that rime ; but when be learned that these neg.°
eiations were on jcooditions highly iiljoriooS
the rights of the Norwegians as a people, it' tea
his duty to disregard then). Alluding IA" Per"P
who bad come from Norway as an Age,tt, the Nobli
•Earl tint this person had expressed his'ino,
anxious ‘vkli that he should persevere itr hriligin;
on hi!, motion s.andlit tray the moil: earnest ...lesir(
.• of tHe people of Norway that the Aritish
sho•tid know their case; adding., that they well
all determined to a man to perish rather than soh,
wit to the dominion of Sweden. did not wisl:
to involve Great Britain in Any dispine .on
solijeet with Sweden or Russia. It the question
waS.whether we should interfere, he did say that
let who ivould Maintain the contrary, he won1;1
he one to contend that our active interference 01
behalf of a people -under such cireunistancts ‘vB3
perfectly justifiAle. But all that he should nowf
tepic.r:aellysctiift
dw
by
ioey'rhel
gm'taii7 lb
uoiti'ibt ;lee liohchk.eas(,l e.
toIJe
his
Royal Highness file Prince 'Regent, humbly re-
on
buffo( the inoffensive people of Norway, .between
tt
gh)
Government
starving t toeir:s.eureb t )
abhor.ed ; ,and ice
the mean time to susend all acts of 1)0'01'1
against Norway, and particularly to take Off the
blockade.
Earl Hanaowtot felt the difficulty of addressing
their Lordships, after the eloquent speech whisk
tl'Y bad heard and to oppose himself to the
authorities which had been quoted by the Noble
Earl. But if he 'could only persuade their Lord'
ship* to suspend their judgment, and not to be
entirely swayed by,the eloquence and the anth°'
cities of that Noble Earl, and to be actuated in
their decision by a little irractical COIIIIIIOII sense,
lie would not find it ilifhcolt to shew why they
ought not to agree to an act of such tinnsnal in-
terference, as that of addressing the (2(0'0 if►
the way just proposed. Following the order of
the Noble Earl, he would first make a feW ob-
ervations on the construction which was tO be
put upon' the Treaty • with Sweden. 'file Nqltie
Earl had contended, that by procuring for
kSwe-
den the nominal cession of Norway
we. had done all that •we were in good taint
PCillnd to do. If the very wo'rdS. of the 'l'ee'ch)
, _or& Ilarrowl9l
Went no farther than this, lie if,
confessed he could not- think that " taint
by 0006.
act quite up to what wis require(' me
by doing uo wore. Dot he would refer the IN4
His Britawn
Karl to the words of the 'treaty.
by. Milao:
Majesty
his good
id boundttli,cteos r(:).cr,utriiti.,Nince:r,c:i•sitisyabie.ty(Z‘bvittelte:nr)..;
ploying his naval co,ropei a
every
yls
astttaelic;
tdi
o thatn
t tills K'as to he n
it would be admitted that we were bound to pro
peiipli
ted
of the territory.
toutl
of
Norway. If then it was admit
cat the cOl'r
o:
rtehseoln:i:etahtiya nmtov Happiness
dte:i'eaS tot 11:
lucked,'' the words of tl'erl'~ccs
were so explicit on this point, that
sarY for to detain their bordshipg 0°
of the *object. 'the Nobe Earl had ins.isted
Itsvoa hoi
strongly ,on, the
guaranteed.the perpetual possession of Nor".-..„,1
.Swetleir ; and Great Britain not having eng„.`l•o',..
to such's guarantee, The guarantee to one (.11,
et I‘..yerof beenthe ther perpetual
ly
of possessiontt]i eoiof l
tarlyn")til(i)e--nr 'W°,11.t11:11::
much,as possible. In the instance Of the '
in qiiestion, it had been avoided. It really dul(ll.ent,
seem to him that -the .Noble Earl had succee. lons
in persuading their Lordships that the stiptdati,",_
tho.t.
of the Treaty could not be complied %vita,
out violating public justice. He had nuked tl,v"out
said, that they did not live in times when
not fashionable to refer to old authorities foot
confirmation .of their sentiments. For d
part, he woulcl•refer to those works whirl' 1/3
been quoted by the Noble Earl, with muchol 0C
tt."
spect for their authority, and a due sense 0f
usefulness. His belief in their infallibility, •
ever, was limited. Ile would only deem thent,o
fallible as true eatholics thought the Popp.'
be was sopported by the universal .sentiinentrils
the Church. But what was the case ? Five" du,
Noble Earl himself- had not 'treated ill'. 'of
tootliorities with
Ie nplauictliierHelistprieyct
alluded rtstitii6lec
part where the
propriety, ;of
patrimouiat.sove:el
it:thttilyneitt:ill:at,ir:pleploinas
opposition
of other authors on'the subject ofinl S
„icleSoi,
The Noble E)trl
ht
vereignty and the right of alienation as
rxiv
hfoortthitrineicgl himselftile,f
(5t)(1)-1_,
and yet: in another part of his work, t.ll,kint-id
the sovereignty of a town or province, 3
ic
adopted the very distipction which he halli 3\704
other place c'ensured. Althotigh, theretore,
adieu
tel, an authority justly 'esteemed great 01'
sbill.hojaedcltys , ida iyd ,d‘,‘;,lvi enre e ,the pNrOi
ribcl
eo rodo yvv)pitocctilrt::!(eit
Noble Earl, had. founded his argument, ClY' rls
the authori lose all its force by its after`tl`ol
stating thing quite inconsistent with %villa It;,it.
lo)teifoti'ieerillkeaniTraailnncatit.iirlejeotf fal:TriTrrietta'triteissil:Ptsl"(7l"‘.l°'%eill
Perhapsfind them in many,
i in Ctery tii :'
drpartini; from the hil!le s
authors who treated
of Nativt►y.--
The Treaty of Utrecht, :among others, v"rci(i'o,.: t
xtremely' nice dr
rt
tire..tion bet
territories could ion. 17" c"
transferred ;, Sicily had been 'again awl
short, historytransferred i,daipolietisidehr ‘lvithfelei'nistiZessreortt:.l:B:.
fermices of this kind. The question the" tvasnrcii
itutti ct ais to flit nand" of
tsttlidnael:::ione:eottli
tolg„;
in which the. cewoll
Inti~►n. But fire ins
The Noble Earl lead ruche
pett►tancs* nn
of ate integral part
Lord Chatham respecting America. ? The e'r!C:
ween
'the
coosfsfilt:eler:iLf"a:l7tyle-
meanscited y
apit:liierfaNbi,e)h.leNE;tninltiand:Zenliabo‘eletilialril s:I;
vereign had any riuht to tran,,:lcr the tiVt34l(
nratintry fluor Whin'. lip it WAS

e. decided, whether, fsar tte salvation of the
hest of his chnnitriOns,. n •Sovereige couLi cede
pert of them ; Mid whether the people of the
so ceded were :not board, under ordi-
eary circunistatices, t 'submit to glich au ee-
rengement. .Let the general practice of the Ne-
tsional Law in this •itescance he considered. The
' doctrine of the Noble.Eatrl.would go to prevent
any Sovereign from occupying peaceably a con-
quered country, unless with the actual and .solemn
eonsent of the people. Stich a cloettine would
prolong and extend the evils of war twit degree
(elite incalculable. In fact, it was' impossible to
d'!uy that the true 'doctrine-teas, that iht common
tsiSes the duos of the ceded country was to.submit
to,the getteral arrangentent. And the effects of
Leaking out such a doctrine es would gire to every
town_ or place ii right to resist in a ,case Of
?ession,. would he. most ruinous to the general-
lTerests, of • seciety.—Respseting toe parallel
between the eases of Norway and
Spans —no-
thin could he more dissimilar, as one was a case
hf comnelsion, xel the other of a cession made,
erne rary power, which had full right and
liberty to maktf it. Ills Lordship then stated
that ti''s Crown , Prince of :sweeten had per-
formed his stipulations to the full extent. Ou
the 28th of June he had brought 28,000 men into
vetted. service!, whielt wits, an occurrence of the
greatest tilonient in the state of affairs at that
time. Indeed it was well known, that if the
Treaty had not been made at the time it was—if
theistatedard of revolt against Buonaparte had not
ben betel •up in the North of Germany, strength-
ened by the coalition with Sweden, affairs might
}lave taken such a turn as might lni've rendered it
eliflicelt for us 'to preserve our existence as a na-
tion, as France might heee become in a situatiim
to overpower the rest of Europe. If, then, this
Treaty was found necessary iu a period of apple-
ltensioe, we were not now to say that its stipula-
tions should, not .be fulfilled. The radical princi-
ple CI it was strictly just ; and the King of,Swe-
(leo had expretsly declared, that the cession of
Norway should be accepted by him with every re-
gard to the peace` and happiness of the people.—
Indeed the cession could not be otherwise titan a
bsnefit to these people, its they would be removed
from an absolute' and placed under a limited Go-
verteneut, with a Rept esentative Body. On the
avhole, the course w'hich' this Country had taken
u'es at the request of the Allied Powers, who were
the first to propose thug connection, and its results
could not fail .to prove of benefit to the people,
'whose ease formed, the 'subject of disctissioo.—
The Mollie Karl concluded with a, few words in
trine too low to be distinctly heard, bin which
were conceived to he a motion in behalf of the
previous ettestion.
'Lord had, hoped that. his Majesty's
?4lulisters would have been inclined to interpose,
to prevent the people of Norway from being cone-
pelled by force to submit, not merely to a foreign
Power, hut to one which had ever been the most
hostile end sieremittiess enemy of Norway, as- far
els moire old hostility could 'reach. He ,did
trust that Ministers would have cootiselled the
3' ince Regent to conform himself to the wishes
of the people. h Joing an act which'would not
have been less great. than any which had been
'performed by the Allied Powers in behalf of
indepeadenee. But when he saw, from
the cliseusSion which had already taken place,
that etuleaVours were using to subject Nor-
way to the horrors of war, he must say, that
when such was the first use made of a Conti-
nental Pacificatiou, our COlldllCt was criminal
Indeed, end subversive of every moral duty to-
weeds thepersons against whom we were about
to act. His Lordship then went at sonic length
into the opidotie of l'uffinidorff, Grotius,andVat-
tel, to Slim that there could be no such thing as
Lereditary right, in a. despotic Monarchy, to dis-
pose of or transfer a nation of pehple. All these
writers had proved Unit the Sovereign has no
Power to alienate a people, or transfer them like
Cattle, • tat such a case, uttol en, such authorities,
his Lordship contended that the people had a
right to form a new Govertenten for theMselves,
rather than submit to be heeded over from one
,Government to another ; and lie was astonished
Low it could ever enter the minds of Noble Lords,
that • any people whatever ought to be so de-
graded Its to be transfet•red like beasts of burthen.
The Kingoilletenark rules Norway, not as King
of Pentnark, but flfl Kill of a separate Dorni,
.He can no more eerie Norway for the benefit
of Denmark, than the King of Blighted can cede
England for the benefit of Hanover. In fact, a
SoVereign never can cede ; he may renounce his
authority, or abdicate, or forfeit his crown, but
the allegiance of his subjects he has no right to
transfer. and therefore no nation has a right to
compel him to do so. Norway starts up as an in-
dependent kingdom ; yet some persons tell the
people they sliest submit to be transferred, as it is
for their good, though they ere so eeklortimate
as
not to knot' it. They are told that they have
passed from a despotic to a free Const orlon.—
But what are the first fruits of tiiis politierd free-
mere ? Thsy are required to lay clown their arms,
duvet to give up their fortresses to be free without
the Of defence ! This was exactly like the
conduct of France, , who never invaded' a pro-
eince without • makieg profesSions of liberty,
end then imposing on them a constitution by
f°l"ee of arms. Such was the present ease of' SVVC.-
(len s and he Welshed to fin,l;thatif the object could
not be effected by other means, the glorions nevy
of Finland was to letisl its -Issistance for the Pur-
!llse. If Ineeould twee belt (see liar the `Freely in
'l"e4tion %vas not direetly repugnant .to the net oral
right of Norway, yet he would persist that the.
Ctowl,' Prince of Sveeden has forfeited all right to
the htterpositien -of this venture, by the non-peer-
f°rovidee of the stipuletioue el that Treaty. iris
Lc,idshiphyre read a paragraph trim) the Treaty,
styhicle stored, that reeonrse should not be had to
orce, to induce the seinnission of Nce • way, em-
less
,Denmark refused to join the Confederacy of
the North ; and as Derllll/Irk hues, at length, joined
.tho Allies, the Hoitse were now endeavouring to
p'il"Pnothis Treaty a constrection which did not
to it• We \vele, in fact, committin
'it g a most
-grant act of illjustke, nothing fess then placing
°lo'selres R state of sicar with Norway to
e.tiforce her submilsion to an atethority which, she
; an act 'which be
.considered. to be the
met. absurd wad .disgraceful that could be con-

sented tn. As to the 81tita or N-otivrty; 0;044,
it is a part of Den Mark, or it iS a dominion now,
de jure, under the &own cat Sweden. If it be a
part of Sweden, then it seems- this' country is to
perform the !lisgraceful task of. Chastising t.:e re-
, hds of Sweden. If the question were to be looked
• at in a sitnple'view, it would be seen that it w;,s
ti adVintiageoni for this country to maintain
a conti»ental balance. ,Voltimes of correspon7
_H (Jena ware in that. House,' which bad nomiher
object than to.mainfain a just balance of power in
the North; but now, our new lights seem -to
shevi., that all the balance must he placed in the
bands of Russia. alone; so that France must ulti-
mately be the Power to whom Sweden must turn
to counterbalance . this enormous influence. He
Was far from wishing to hint that such event
would soon occur ; but it 'might in. the course of
; • human life, and it was the duty of this country to
look a!wajis with a prudent jealousy towards
France. •

The Earl of Hmutowsy said a few words in
reply.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, there were two
questions wider which thiS subject should be ar-
gued : first, whether this cession be conformable
to the taw of nations ; and, secondly, which
1 is a more narrow, ground, whether- this coon-
. try had any right to interfere'. He %void(' say,
that if all the general principles• of the laws
of nations' were brought torwikl in behalf of
NOrWay, there were still ciretunstapces in her
' ease which would reutler them inapplicable. He
would, in the first place, simply. state the facts
under Which the cession was made. At the com-
mencement of the last campaign, the troops ot'Swe,.
den were directed against Denmark, then the Ally
of France. The coosequence was, that -Holstein,
Sleswiek, and other parts of the ainish territory,
soon fell into the power of the Swedish forces,
and the King of Denmark, to preserve the
whole of his dominious, ceded a part.. The good
faith of the Crown Prince was then so manifest,
that every engagement. 4-entered into was punc-
tually fulfilled. • Let us see, then, in what "'ela-
tion we stand towards, this Power. Let its consi-
der that 'Sweden has actually made the sacrifices
to secure the object that was agreed on., She has
"done so, and therefore it becomes oar-duty to see
thltt those 'sacrifices have not been
.mole in vain.
His Lordship th.. 211 made several allusions to pas-
sages of the eminent Writer-i on the Laws of Na-
tions : occur:ling to these, he did not deny that it
is quite optional, when a country is ceded, whe-
the people will or will 'not receive their 'new
blasters. In every Treaty of Peace there have
been cessioas,: which were made under the be-
lief that a country had a right to cede a part
(if its dominions, in order to gain the object for
which the Treaty was framed. He should not,
however, state this as an universal axiom : there
may be many, cases in which a, people may;be
justified tor' resisting, NO Sovereign con cede
that which be does not possess himself, But it
cannot be said that the King of Denmark has
ceded any rights which he did not possess ;• and
although he is the most absolute Monarch in Etr-
rope, yet he holds' his Sovereignty on the same
principles as limited Monarchs. In the • year
4650, NOrway was ceded to the King of 'Den-
mark ; there could, therefore, be no doubt of the
• power and eight of the King to transfer it again
if CiretilliStatiCeS required the cession. What
was the cause (tithe invasion of Denmark, which
led to this cession ? It was known that the whole
of Denmark, except Zealand and Norway, was
tooter the influence of the'coiturion enemy, as far
usi respected its resources of every description ;
and. the part which was left in the possession
of the enemy was full as valuable as that
which was ceded to Sweden. At the time of the
cession there was no objection which" the
people of Norway could make which was not re-
' medied, and they were even told that they might
choose, under the,Crown of Sweden, any form or
Government they might prelV ; so that the offer
really was, that those who had been governed in
a despotic manner• could adopt a more desirable
form. If the principle of the right of cession
were the point to he maintained, then never was
there a case of less grievance than the one before
us. But sonic Noble Lords talked as if we were
making war on these people of Is;convav for the
first time; or as ihough we had never received any
injury from them. The fact, however, was, that
Norway, as a part of Denmark, had been' at
war with us during the last eight years, and
this province had done us ten tunes More injury
than all the re' t „of Denuntrk together. Its
ports were a constant refuge for.theenemy's ves,-
sels, which materially anuoyed .oiir trade. Has
this province, t nen, after submitting. . itself town
enemy, a right to con‘,..rt its,lf into an independent
kingdom, for the mere purpose of avoiding the
conditions of the peace made with the party by
whom it was ceded—for the purpose of prevent-
ing !,is and our Allies front fuihlliug those engage-
ments which we made when that country was a._
province of the enemy ? One circumstaoce ought
to 'be clearly ascert4ined; namely, whether this
independence is the free spirit and will of the
people themselves, and has limiting in it a fo-
'vigor treaeliery. Ile denied, that in the present
case it would be right to make suet; an assertion.
—Some months ;ago' the King of Denmark sent
Prince Christian to Norway to be Regent of that
PrOvinee, In January last, the King of Den-
Mark ceded Norwry to Sweden, Every 'condi-
tion imposed on Sweden has been punctually exe-
cuted; but, on the part of Denmark, what are the
conditions which have been fulfilled ? Have the
fortresses been put in possession of Sweden ? Ott
the contrary, Prince Christian proclaims the in-
dependence of Norway, naming himself still Re-
gent and Prince of that country. lie has a de-
legated authority front the Government of that
country, and under this authority lie refuses to
give up the' fortressei. All the public offices in
Norway are filled with Danish agents, who sti-
mulate the people to these acts of insubordina-
tion. Instead of such conduct as this, world it
not have been right in him to have called a Diet,
to know whether the people of Norway would
sitbmit to the new Government ? He knew pa-
sitivelythat the question had not beenefairly Mat- •
etL. With respect to the Proclamation of the King
of Sweden, it had' been stippressed.by authority
in Norway, and the 'people bad even been led to
believe that the Government of this. country was

iii tivout, a their liatopetdetite t tuy, Prinett
Christian bititsell assured the -I)et that met last
Month, that they would have the assistance of
this errantry. There are parts of Norway the
people of which are decidedly friendly to•the
lie could' not agree with the Noble Lord on
the tptei.tion of genei-al principle. His Lordship
_then replied to the arguments of the Noble Lords
who spoke early in the debate, and insisted, that
their comparisons had no analogy to the case before
the House. !flint of Split), in particular, was tom
tally dissimilar, for Spain was not at war with
France, but at peace; and therefore the conduct of
France under her late Ruler was. nit act of the
grossest treachery. The Noble Lord, who had
commented on the part which the Swedish troops
-bore France, had no right to complain of any
want of faith on the part of Sweden, for that part.
was taken intirely by the permission and approba-
tion of the Allies. He then proceeded to amminmad-
vert on the allusions which bad been made to petty
jealousies on the part of the Crown Prince, which,
he contended, were in a great Alegree unfounded;
so far from this there had been a general dlsposl-
- among all the Allied Powers to hear with
little and unavoidable evils, and to sacrifice every
thing to the grand object they had in View. Oa
the whole, he would say; that if the Trcatys *here a
wise measure when originally )made, this country
would not be base enough to abandon it. His
Lordship concluded an eloquent speech with ex-
pressing a hope that the House wimuld arm the
.Executive Government with such towers as would
enable it to bring the subject to a sattstaetory issue;
Lord HOLLAND considered the effect of time Ad-
dress to be to withhold the last extremity of war
frtuu a people on the very day of Negociations for
Peace. Here his Lordship read several passageS of
the Treaty, and inferred, that as Noway was not
positively guaranteed by it, this country was under
no engagement to secure it by violent means ;
that even supposing there were no general law
on the sabject, the strict words of the Treaty
would authorise us to abstain from all interference
with time Norwegians on the present occasion.- It
certainly was not intended to .be asserted, that in
every respect its situation was
,similar, but in,
some:of the grand leading features it was, the
same... That which had been said, of its being
infeasled to give Norway a better constitution
than she had heretofore had, dicrnot prove there
was any great di lierenre between•the present situa-
tion of Norway and that situation in which Spain
was formerly placed. Bußnaparte bad given Spain
a Constitution; and indeed it had become a fa-
shion forevery Prince who wished to add a neigh.; ,
bouring country to his dominions, to come for-
ward with a petition, which Was to Make all the
people happy. This lie considered hut as a
mockery, a farce—and he bud rat her hear aggres-
sions defended on the odious principle, that they
were, polite, and, in the present state of things,
necessary, than attempted to be glossed over this
way. The Noble Lord had said the bostilityarl
Norway had been very injurious to this country;
more so than that
.of Denunt.tk or ming other
countries. fie won!d admit that it might be so.;
and doing this, he would pat it to their Lordships,
.if it was prudent in this Country to assist in
transferring. Norway to Siveden. The: ..Con-
stitution intended for Norway, it had oozed
out in the course of this debate, was to be gua-
ranteed to the people of that country by England.
Of this Constitution it did not appear that we
{thew any. thing, vet we were to take uprin our-
selves to hang, draw, and quarter time Norwe-
gians, if they receive it., It was forced' upon them
from 'motive* of humanity. Ile wished them to
have- done with this- language, and to say, we
have concluded a general Treaty, amid now time
fulfilinent of it is demanded, we' must pay time
debt of shame, rather than mode the sufferers with
the affectation of benevolence. ?f the stipulations
in the, Treaty had not been strictly fulfilled by
Sweden, we ought to take that Treaty syllable by
syllayle, and word by word, in order to see if we
could not avoid acting hostilely to Norway. lf it
should appear Sweden had not fulfilled het en-,
gagemeuts ih the way in which site was to- have
fulfilled theta, we ought also to claim the right Of
performing our part, of. the bargiiu in a different
way, and leave to others the odious part, which
at present we were about to take.

Lord IionINGDoN' felt himself called upon to
vote against the Resolution ; as it appeared to
him, ,underexisting circumstances, impossible to
adopt any course but, that which had been pill.-
sued by his ,Majesty's Government. The Cession
of Norway by Denmark was perfectly consistent
with public I.lw as they found it laid down by
Vattel.• However lie might adopt the feelings of
the Noble Earl who had brought forwards this
motion, and concurrink; as be did with many of
the principL.s which he had laid down, he could
not, under all the circumstances, agree to 'nitre
for the Address,

Earl GREY was surprised the Noble Lord; who
had 034 sat down, should share his feelings, and
admit therefore of the pr;nciples whit,h he (Lord
Grey) had advanced, and yet, by voting against
Iris motiOn, allow that, though in ordinary times
these ought injustice to be strictly adhered to, a pe-
'riod might arrive when it would be; roper to depart
frotri them. Till now lie had never heard such
language held in the ,British Parliament. He had
always thought that that which was just was there
held to be binding. • "-Feat Justitia rust emlunt,"'
was an old axiom, which they had been accus-
toined to respect ; hut when interest stepped in,
it should seem the Noble Lord was of opinion it
might be set aside, and " ruatjustitia," for jns-
tic': was then a subordinate consideration. Ar-
guments had this night been used, which he had
hoped were gone by with the French Revolution.
•The books of public law were thrown away, nod'
cases of ceded territories, Where consent was
im-
plieti or ',expressed, were mixed with those of
countries 'where a determination to resist had
been manifested: His Lordship than proceeded
to re-argue the general gite,tion, and. repeated
mahv of his original observations.
Lord Livr.apoot.- briefly explained. .
The House then divided', when the numbers
were—.

For the Address—Present ' 27
Proxies
Against the Addreett—Present . . .
Proxies • 09-115
Majority in favnur'of Minister's
Adjourned at hall-vast TWelea