The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-29 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 29, 1831.

*are of influence in electing the House of Commons. 116

had spoken of the opinions of a great statesman now no
more, but he should now quote the language of a living
writer upon the Government and Constitution of England.
(The Noble Lord here read an extract from the work to

which he referred, which expressed an opinion that such
ehange in the representation of the people as would render
+he House of Commons a purely popular assembly would
shut out talent front its walls, and would compell all young
and aspiring men of talent to become demagogues by-
orofession—a change that must prove pernicious and

dangerous to the State. The writer went on to con-
tend, that enlightened men of any class found

their way into the House of Commons—land, corn-
.neree, and manufactures were represented.) The
Noble Lord then went on to reply to the argument
founded upon the anomalies which a foreigner would
see in our Constitution who might observe wealthy and

populous places unrepresented, and those which were
❑either wealthy nor populous sending Members to Parlia-
ment. He contended that the latter gave means of access
to men of talent, and furnished opportunities of virtual
representation to those new interests arising in the com-
munity for which the Constitution might not have made
previous provision. Looking at the present advisers of
the Crown, he found that the State was indebted for their

introduction to public life to nothing more or less than the,

working of the borough system. No doubt the Lord
Privy Seal was an exception. The Lord President first
sat for a borough. The Noble Lord at the head of the
Colonial Department represented some very snug and close

place. The Noble Secretary for the Home Department,
when he no longer found it convenient to sit for Hertford,

came in for a Close borough. The great abilities of the

Noble Lord on the Woolsack first became known to the

public by means of a rotten borough ; and when unsuc-

ceslful as a candidate for Liverpool, and for a northern
county, he three several times returned to a nomination

borough. It was thus that at length he came to represent
that place. But if the whole of the ancient system was
to be reversed, men could only gain access to the repre-
sentation of great places by haranguing public meetings,
and exciting the worst passions of the populace. The
only persons who would be able to find their way into the
House of Commons, under its new Constitution, would
be those who should have attained popular favour and no-
toriety by making speeches at public meetings. Sur-
prised as he had been when he first heard of the Bill, he

was still more so when be read its provisions.—(Hear.
It had certainly been contrived to obtain in support of
that measure more general and decided unanimity than had
for a long period been manifested in favour of any other,
and be confessed the more he considered the Bill the more

was he surprised at that unanimity. He never read a
Bill which was mere calculated for delusion.—(Hear.)—
It was, indeed, exceedingly well drawn for the purposes of

;hose who prepared it.

They had contrived it so as to

catch the favour of almost every class of the people, giving
to each a little advantage here and a little advan-
tage there.—(Hear, heir, hear, and a laugh.)—The
delusion prevailed particularly in the provisions res-
pecting the county representation. Twenty-seven coun-

ties, which, heretofore, had but two Members, were to
have four under the Reform Bill. But if their Lordships
would take the trouble to inquire into the manner in
which the representation of those counties would be
affected, they would find that the advantages would chiefly
be extended to the manufacturing instead of the agricul-
tural interests : for in those counties there are large manu-
facturing districts, in which, it was well known to their
Lordships, the influence of the landed proprietors was
much less powerful than in other counties.—(Hear.)—
Bnt even in the towns the suffrage would not be confined
to the possessors of houses bona fide rateable at 101., for
it would become the interest of the possessor to have his
building rated at that sum. In the next place, the Bill
gave the suffrage to the possessors of copyholds of 101. a year.
Ile (lid not think that class of persons was very numerous;

but if they were, still the landed interest would not derive
much advantage from their enfranchisement. They were
generally holders of small farms, and not usually the most
attached to the landlords. The next class to be admitted
to the franchise was the holders of leases, upon which a
rent of 501. was reserved. That body also was not
very numerous, and they were chiefly to be found
in the neighbourhood of large towns, being for the most
part a class through which the interest of the landlords was
not likely to be increased. New he should ask where was
the addition of strength to the landed interest, said to
be conferred by that Bill? Fifty-four Members were no-
minally given to its support ; but he thought it could
easily be shown that the addition would be chiefly in the
manufacturing interest. A Noble Friend of his opposite
had often accused him with having lost sight of his con-
nexion with the land in his earnestness to promote a
branch of the commercial interest, which he generally ad-
vocated.—(Hear, heir, and a laugh.) But his partiality
for wool, or for any other manufacture, could not lead
him so far as that he should overlook the tendency of the
Bill to strengthen the manufacturing at the expence of the
landed interest. The number of persons to he admitted
by the Bill to the constituency would be, as he had said,
much greater than was generally supposed. At present
it was the interest, and, he believed, it was very much
the practice, of the householders in boroughs and towns
to deceive, if they could, the tax or rate collector as to
the full value of their houses ; but the Bill would give
them and their landlords an interest in having houses of
less value than 101. rated at that amount—(Hear)—for
the sake of the suffrage. Now, what would be the effect
of that qualification in the sixteen metropolitan parishes
to which eight Members were to be given ? He had made
some inquiries on the subject, and he found that there
were very few houses indeed, in those parishes rated at less
than 10/. He had met with one man in an exceedingly
small house, for which, to his surprise, the man informed
him that he paid 14s. a weeek. From another, who paid
121. a year for a small house, unfurnished, he understood
that there was scarcely a house in that parish at a less rent.
—(Hear, hear.) He did not think that the present Go-
vernment were aware, in the introduction of their plan,
that it would make way for so extended a constituency.
But they had now gone so far, that he did not know how
the error was to be corrected. At the same time
that they made that large addition to the number of
voters, they continued the suffrage for lire to all
existing freemen, except non-residents. Now, what
was the result ? In Liverpool the resident freemen were
several thousand, and when the 10/. rate payers were quali-
fied by the Bill, he could not well conceive that it would
be possible to take the votes of the electors of Liverpool,
which would then amount to 25,000, in the two days to
which the election was to be limited. Perhaps some
means were to be contrived for that purpose; but he must
take the Bill as it came before him, and in its present state
there was no provision to remedy the inconvenience to
'vnich he alluded. Next, as to the diminution of bribery,
and of the expenses of elections, which the Bill was ex-
pected to effect : he had some experience 'upon that sub-
ject, and he was of opinion that in some respects there
might be a saving of expence ; as, for instance, by taking
the votes at several places. But any one who bad even
the least experience in county elections, must be aware that
the chief expence does not arise from the conveying of voters
to the hustings, but from the employment of agents in
canvassing the county; and that expence would be still in-
creased by the Bill. Again, there was a new expence in-
curred by the country for the barristers who were to go
round every year to register the voters; and in the same
way a new expence to the candidates, to whom it would
be necessary also to employ agents to go round the county,
to take care that their interests should not he injured by
omissions of registration. That was a new and a great
source of expence entirely created by the Bill. Upon
those details of the Bill he would say no more until it came
before the House ; but he hoped he had said enough to
show the House and the public, that it was delusive to
suppose that it was calculated to promote the interests of
the landed interest. He knew that persons connected
with the commercial and manufacturing interests ought
to consider that what is good for the one must be good
for the other; but still the fact was, that questions had
often arisen, and would often arise, upon which the several
interests were arranged against each other; and when-
ever, upon any such question, the landed should be opposed
to the commercial interest, it would, inevitably, be defeated
in a House of Commons constituted under that Bill.
Did their Lordships suppose that in such a House of
Commons the system of the Corn Laws would not be done
away with.—(with.—(Hear, hear.)—Was not the abolition of
those laws a principal object with many who pressed
eargerly forward in support of the projected Reform.—
(Hear, hear.)—He would ask the Noble Lord opposite
whether he could undertake to say, that if that measure
were carried into effect, there would be no demand for fur-

ther change ? He would ask him, did he suppose that
the Corn Laws were not abolished, would the people
to be now added to the constituency he content with a
House of Commons who should continue that system.—

(Hear,` hear.)—Would they not refuse to send any Mem-
`,er who did not pledge himself to the abolition? (The
Noble Lord, who was but indistinctly audible at the bar
through the greater part of his speech, was here quite in-
for one or two sentences.) If he found fault

~„
with the Bill itself, its principle cr any part of its details,
tie would confess that he was still more dissatisfied with
the manner in which it had been introduced.—(Hear.)—
lie alluded to the use that had b•en made of the King's

name.—(Hear, hear.)—Which, although it had not been
directly connected with the introduction of the Bill, had
been so referred to as to suggest to the people that his
_ .

. .
Majesty was himself desirous of effecting a Reform in
Parliament.—(Hear.)—lie bad heard it said in excuse
for that reference to his Majesty's name, that the sanction

of the Sovereign was implied in the fact of the measure
Tieing brought forward by his Ministers. But be could
not admit that excuse. When the Catholic Relief Bill

was brought into that House by the Noble Duke then at
the head of his Majesty's Government, he (Lord Wharn-
chile) remarked full well that great doubts were enter-
tained as to whether the King was not adverse to the
measure; and the Noble Duke was expressly asked had
the King given it his sanction? To that question the
Duke certainly answered in the affirmative. But that
was very different from coming down to Parliament
avowing the King's support of the measure, when no
question was put upon the subject. But that
was not all. He believed that it had been expressly
said that Parliament should be dissolved if the
Bill were not passed.—(Hear, hear, hear,)—lf ever there
were a subject which required the deep consideration of
Parliament, it was that measure, which, although called
a Reform, was in effect a total change of the Constitution
of the other House. Never, since the Revolution of

1688, had there been proposed a change in the institutions
of this country so extensive or so important.—(Hear,
hear.)—ln a deliberation of such a nature, it was not fit
to attempt to frighten the Merrbers of the Legislature by,
the King's name.—(Cheers.)—lnstead of that Bill bay-
ing ben yielded only to the demands and expectations of
the people, it had been voluntarily thrown down at the
feet of those persons who for years had bout labouring for
the extinction of the boroughs, in order to forward their
own particular views.—(Hear, hear.)—Every man in the
country, Tory or Ultra Tory, Whig, Radical, or Jacobin,
lifted up his hands in surprise at the announcement of the
Ministerial plan. If the Noble Lord with whom that
measure originated had taken the trouble (laying aside
the secrecy in which his project bad been prepared) to
ascertain the sentiments of the country, he would have
found indeed that there was prevalent a strong feeling in fa.
your of Reform, but not of such Reform as that Noble Lord

proposed, and that even that feeling wag dying away. Nor
did he think that if Parliament should be dissolved the
Noble Lord would find his principle of disfranchisement
to be very popular. It was quite true that the principle
had been carried by a majority of one in the largest
Flot“e that ever divided. But he well knew that many

gentlemen voted against the Minister on that occasion
who would have voted for a moderate Reform; and the

only hope of many who voted with the Minister was, that
in the Committee they would be enabled to make many es-
sential changes in the details of ft measure. There was
one great objection to the Bill, of more weight, perhaps,
even than the others, which was, that it would only serve

as a resting place to those who have views far beyond it.
If the House of Commons should now go even that length;

it would still be said that the landed interest had too
much power, and questions would arise over and over
again, of which their Lordships might have at present no
idea.—(Hear, hear. )_lt was not to be supposed that the
Bill would prevent all undue influence over voters. .The
rich possessors in the neighbourhood of the towns would
still be able to exercise that influence. Moreover, there
would always be new interests requiring to be repre-
sented ; for instance, the Colonial interests would claim
their right to be represented.—(Hear, hear.)—Nor was it
to be expected that Reform would render the Legislature
on all occasions popular. It was not possible for any Le-
gislature to be always popular ; and God forbid that it
eetlei
essu•emrepasroe.d—t(ulltehaer, hear. )—The present question had been
nolitchequule;stiinonth;e bountautehiepraetiewnaes onef
the
class of its rights to bestow them upon another.—(Hear,
Legislature was not depriving one
greatau difference
Catholics
hear.)—That great measure was carried without the cons
eurrence of the people ; but how on any other great ques
tion could the controul of the popular feeling over the
other House of Parliament be counteracted when that
House should have undergone the proposed recon-
struction ? How should that House venture to carry
any great measure upon which the salvation of the
country might depend, contrary to the feelings of the
people ? It must bo in the recollection of their Lord-
ships, that upon the important questions respecting
bullion and the currency the measures of the Legisla-
ture were very much opposed to the sentiments of the ma-
nufacturing part of the people ; and could any measure,
however important, be in future carried in opposition to
their sentiments, should that Bill be passed? He was
not alone in the opinion that the popular demands would
not be limited by that Bill. He was borne out in that
opinion by those who, for their whole lives, had been
labouring to alter the institutions of the country.—(Hear)
—and who, he doubted not, conscientiously desired to
have established here, if not a republic, at least a mo-
narchy nearly approaching to a reoublie, something like
that which had been recently erected in France. He would
reed to their Lordships the opinions expressed upon the
subject of the Ministerial Reform, immediately after its
promulgation, in a newspaper (the Examiner of the 6th
of March), which advocates its particular views with
great ability, and he doubted not also with great since-
rity :--" Ministers have far exceeded our expectations.
The plan of Reform, though short of Radical Reform,
tends to the utter destruction of boroughmongery, and
will prepare the way for a complete improvement. The
ground, limited as it is, which it is proposed to clear
and open to the popular influence, will suffice, as
the spot desired by Archimedes, for the plant of the
power that must ultimately govern the whole system.
Without Reform, convulsion is inevitable—upon any
Reform, further improvement is inevitably consequent—
and the settlement of the Government on the democra-
tical basis certain. If we supposed that the plan
before us could be permanent, we should declare it insuf-
ficient ; but we have no such apprehension in an age of
onward movement ; and we hail it as a first step to a
b
(o) te
00
mu giverpl et
shouldersteh oe u peopler delt
ee..aail,l
deliverance.
oyf sTvilah, nee t
laaunnt
dii ts,
greater good, and as a first step abandoning an abhorred
takes the arms from their enemies. Like Sinbad we have
afi‘a.nlirlcsdegt.oatofotdeldrtai"ndahoriedftsrs:'tmoperation of breaking up the old system—
its faults are in its constructive arrangements—and the
withoutnight,
great deficiency the omission of the ballot. We have re-
peatedly asserted, and again declare our conviction, that no
ballotth but it iisuntohtenproi.ere.
sent state of the people's
certainilef°rm tilsraetffidacyiennt• succeed
the
political knowledge, the ballot
will follow any measure
on elections." Again, "On the whole, if it were certain
that no ulterior Reform would ever take place, we should
think that we had gained little by this ministerial plan.
But the plan, as we have before observed, has an evident
tendency to assist and facilitate ulterior Reform, by break-
ing up the old channels of patronage and sinister influence,
and by forcing men to open out new ones, which it will be
difficult to render equally smooth and easy." And again,
If the proposed Reform had been introduced in quiet
times, and had no ulterior changes, we question whether
the alteration which it would have made in the composi-
tion of the Houses would have been in any respect an i
But with an excited pubic, and a public
psi ance of the ballot,
fully possessed with the i n the
Members whom this ineasure woul d send to Parliament
must represent, in a considerable degree, the real feelings
of their noinit,al constituents, or the cry for the ballot
will become absolutely•
irresistible. If we gain this Bill,
therefore, we shall
gain all ; and every nerve ought to
be strained by every Reformer throughout the nation
e mini
for the success of the • • stettal measure."—(The reading
of those passages w
1,,) as occasionally interrupted by loud cries
of " Hear Thus, then, their Lordships would see what
with was the feeling
They
(the which the Bill was to be received.—
Reformers) would accept the advantages which
it gave them, as the means of obtaining ulterior objects.
—(Hear, hear.) The way in which the writer in that
paper supposed the popular
feeling would be brought to
operate upon the Legislature
was, that the people would