The Sun.
London, England, 1831-12-14 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

It would appear from the language of the
Anti-Reformers on Monday last, that whatever
tenacity of resistance may be expected from them
upon the second reading, which involves the
principle of the Bill, the gentlemen cannot,
without some disregard of consistency, extend
their opposition, in any violent degree, to the
clauses and details of the measure. Sir Robert
Peel's speech, indeed, kept pretty clear of any
allusion whatever to the merits of the new Bill,
as explained by Lord John Russell, the Right
Hon. Baronet appearing to have abundant food
for all his intellectual faculties in devising, vary
ing, and multiplying expressions of triumph over
tile King's Ministers for the offence of improving
their fbrmer Bill. This tone of Conversation,
which abstractedly is not much to be admired,
but which had imitators in some of those who
followed Sir Robert Peel, may perhaps be valu-
able in the present instance, as a proof that if
reason had not been satisfied, and argument sub-
dued, party would not have been so vociferous.
If Ministers could, by adopting the suggestions
of their adversaries, stop their mouths upon
matters of detail, and so far expedite and facili-
tate public business, without surrendering
at the same time, the least shadow of principle,
is it not a ground on which they may fairly chal-
lenge the acknowledgments of the country for
frank and conciliatory dealing ? But where we
are called upon to return thanks to the Oppo-
sition, for their rejection of the Bill in the House
of Lords, and for the opportunity thence afforded
of amending the Bill of last session, do gentle-
men forget that there is not one of those minor
amendments which was not a proper subject for
discussion in Committee, and of which, there-
fore, the country might not have had the benefit
two months ago, but for the cavalier snappish-
ness of a portion of the Peerage, aided by the
Reverend Bench ? In those two months how
much good might have been accomplished ! how
much evil to every great interest of the commu-
nity spared—commercial, financial, political, and
moral ! We have said that the principles of the
original Bill have been preserved, and in some
re,pects strengthened. The 101. household qua-
lification is put upon a more solid and simple
footing, than in the old Reform Bill. And,
what has not been yet adverted to, the class of
voters thus received into the constituency, may,
so far as the clause has any operation, be more
respectable in regard to property, and have a
deeper stake in the country, than those to whom
the lowest denomination of household franchise
was formerly confined ; because, if value be made
the test, instead of rent, it is plain that two
houses being of the same quality, the tenant who
obtains his on the easiest terms has the best
property in it. For instance, the man who pas
a rack-rent for a 101. house may be said to
have interest in his occupancy, while the
payers of a rent of 51. for a similar house, must
be considered to have something worth preserv-
ing. Moreover,—and Sir Robertt' Peel had bet.
ter take it into his memory,—this improvement
was not of the number of those which the Op•
position recommended. Our contemporaries;
friends of Reform, ought to be careful how the!'
throw, in the shape of regret or dissatisfaction,
stigmas on the Bill, not fully warranted by it,
actual provisions. A Morning Paper yesterday
seemed to fear that the pains taken to secure the
birthright of freemen in towns might keep opei:
the door to corporation jobbing. The objection
might have force, if the corporate right of mak-
ing freemen at discretion had been reserved b.)
the Bill ; and if such should be the case, it is
an error which will, we think, require to be cor-
rected. But on such materials as are before us,
we do not find that anything more has been
done than leaving the rights of freemen, as
against the higher members of corporations, in
their present state. With respect to the " crow-
ing" about General Gascoyne's motion, and the
alleged identity of its object with that which
Ministers in the Bill, as it stands, have fulfilled,
there is no truth nor candour in the statement.
General Gascoyne's motion went to maintaie
the number of representatives for England and
IVales at their former level, thereby rendering it
impossible to add any to the number of Scotch
or Irish Members. The new Bill, on the con-
trary, preserves the aggregate number of the
whole House, but reduces the English Members
from 513 to 500, giving Ireland and Scotland
between them the benefit of the surplus repre-
sentatives.— Times.

An interesting meeting of the county of Rox-
burgh took place at Jedburgh on Tuesday last, to
of express the continued attachment of that part
the country to the Reform Bill, and to prove
that no reaction had taken place in their senti-
ments since they last declared them. The She-
riff refused to call it or to preside at its delibera-
tions, but neither his absence nor his opposition
could have any influence on the sentiments of
the parties who composed it. Lord Minto oc-
cupied the chair which the Sheriff had declined,
and Sir William Elliot, Sir William Scott, Mr.
Douglass, and the other chief proprietors of the
county, were grouped around him, and took part
in the proceedings of the day. If we had not
given the speeches of those gentlemen, and their
friends at considerable length in another column,
we might have thought it a matter of duty to
announce the enlightened spirit and firm deter-
mination which they displayed. It need excite
no surprise that our brethren north of the
Tweed express greater impatience under the pres-
sure of the present system, and a more ardent
desire of change, than we usually witness in this
part of the empire. The fact is notorious, that
whereas in England and Ireland a popular
constituency is sometimes found, and the means
of expressing public opinion through the me-
dium of a free election are known, in Scot-
land the whole of the electoral system is
a mere mockery,--a burlesque on popular
institutions,—a bitter irony on representative
Government. The 45 Members, of whom the
representation of Scotland consists, are returned
by about 9,500 voters ; nearly one-half of whom
have no direct interest in the land or property of
the country. They might be made as well in
Bengal as in Scotland, and shipped home from
Calcutta in a single Indiaman, as the comple-
ment of Bishops to supply the Scottish episcopal
church was (in the time of Charles II.) sent
down from London in a single coach. if the
Scotch Members have any local attachments,—
any regard for those who ought to be their con-
stituents,—or any fear of popular disapproba-
tion,—it is a mere matter of accident, and has
no connexion with the system on which they are
chosen. The fifteen representatives for the dis-
tricts of boroughs are returned by self-elected
councils, over whose choice the inhabitants haVe
no controul. In England, there are numerous
rotten boroughs cut off by the Reform
Scotland they are all rotten : in England bo-
rough corruption is common,—in Scotlandit is
universal ; in England there are some free elec-

tions,—in Scotland the very name of hustings
or popular choice are unknown. The popula-
tion of its greatest cities (of Edinburgh or Glas-
gow, for instance) are quite unconscious at the
moment of an election that any political cere-
mony is taking place in their name, or
under the pretext of serving their interests.
he Provost and the baillies settle the
whole matter, of making a Member of Par-
liament in their own snug little coteries, as
they do any other job ; and the public only hear
of the result by the scene of debauchery which
takes place at the inauguration of the new se-
nator. The latter, where he does not buy his
seat by a direct bribe, is bound hand and foot
to serve the interests of the parties, who barter
the rights of their fellow-citizens for their own
sordid advantage—who exact promises of com-
missions, cadetships, and of all sorts of corrupt
favours, in place of those pledges of controul over
the extravagance of Government, those engage-
ments to retrenchment and economy, which the
people, acting for themselves, would impose on
their Parliamentary trustee. In the counties
the system of election is in every respect nearly
as vicious as in the boroughs. The whole num-
ber of freeholders on the lists for the thirty
counties of Scotland does not exceed the half of
the voters in a moderately-sized town in Eng-
land. They are, therefore, in every sense of the
word close or nomination electoral districts. A
large county has often not above 50 or 100 free-
holders possessing any property within its
bounds ; and several base less than 20. Includ-
ing parchment votes, as well as votes founded on
a beneficial interest in the land, the whole county
constituency of Scotland very little exceeds
2,000 ; and in some counties, the Member is
returned by a majority of mere paper or nominal
freeholders. Hence, till lately, the total apathy
of the Scottish nation to every thing that
smacked of politics,—hence its insensibility to its
civil or legislative interests,—hence the corrup-
tion and insolence of its Aristocracy,—and hence
the almost universal servility of the lower to the
upper classes of society. The Reform Bill,
which puts an end to these crying abuses,—
which allows a fair representation of the property
and intelligence of the country,—which extends
the elective franchise from 2,000 or 2,500 mo-
nopolists to 60,000 er 70,000 electors of all
classes,—has accordingly been hailed in Scot-
land with a degree of enthusiasm of which we
can form but a faint idea in this more favoured
portion of the United Kingdom. The Bill has
been absurdly called revolutionary in England,
bur it will effect a real and beneficial revolu-
tion in Scotland. It will extend and equalize
political rights in this southern part of the
empire ; but in Scotland—so far as the
body of the people is concerned—it will
create them. In England it will merely enlarge
and strengthen the basis of the representative
system—in Scotland it will at once lay the foun-
dation and rear the structure. With these ad-
vantages in its favour, we are not surprised to
hear of anticipated mob-constituencies in the
great towns north of the Tweed, as well as in our
own great metropolis, and of a dangerous change
in the proportional representation of manufactur-
ing industry and landed property. This alarm,
which we thought we had for ever allayed by the
simple process of describing things as they are,
and by appealing to facts and Parliamentary re-
' turns in support of our statements, seems last
night to have again seized one of our evening
contemporaries, whose aguish fit was renewed by
the happier prospects of the previous debate.
We are again told in his Anti-Reform gabble,
that " the metropolitan suburb Members must
be rejected, and the balance between the agricul-
tural and the town interests must be fairly ad-
justed." And why reject the metropolitan suburb
Members? Is it because those districts have
no property or intelligence to be represented ?
No. The districts which are to receive Members
nay ten times more in assessed taxes than all the
100 boroughs proposed to be wholly or partially
disfranchised, and which supplied St. Stephen's
Chapel with 200 instead of eight Members ? Is
it because we shall have a mob constituency ?
No ; for though the number of houses in Lon-
don, Middlesex, and Westminster, which are
rated at and above 101., be 116,279 (or nearly
a third of the whole of the rated houses in Eng-
larvl and Wales, there are not 30,000 of them
rented so low as 201. We could even make a
large constituency of nearly 50,000 paying a
rent above 40/. a year, and in no system of elec-
tion could it be proposed to deny a vote to an
amount of property and respectability implied in
such a valuable household occupation. The
absurd or perfidious antagonists of the new Bill
always commit the blunder, or perpetrate the
injustice in their reasonings, of representing the
minimum qualification as the only one, and be.
cause occupants of 101. houses have a vote,
they argue as if all the electors were to consist
of that class. Now the fact is, that in Lon-
don, Middlesex, and Westminster, out of
116,279 houses above 10/. value, there are
only 15,923 so low as between 101. and
15/. ; only 13,093 so low as between 15/. and
201.; only 24,038 so low as between 20/.
and 30/. ; and all the rest are above the
latter sum. Thus we find upwards of 20,000
tenants paying rent above 70/. Are all these
people to he deprived of their political rights,
should they happen to be—as the most of them
are—without the pale of the city, or not included
in the potwallopers of Westminster ? But even
though the representatives of the metropolitan
districts were returned by universal suffrage—
what could the eight new Members do, either in
voting or in speaking, which could dangerously
affect the deliberations of an assembly of 658 ?
We have frequently answered already the ob-
jection to the Bill founded on its allegedinjustice
to the agricultural interest, by showing that the
landed aristocracy will gain rather than lose in
relative influence by the addition of Members
given to counties, and by other provisions of
the measure ; and on that part of the subject
we shall not now be tempted to enter. We can-
not conclude without observing that if the
enemies of the late Bill think with us that the
changes introduced into the present measure are
improvements on its predecessor, they must have
changed their notions of a perfect Reform, and 111
may be regarded as on the highway to a complete
conversion.— Times.

We have copied into the Chronicle an ac-
count of the proceedings at the meeting of
the Political Union in Dublin, on Thursday
last, and the comments of the Dublin Evening
Post on the startling speech of Mr. O'Connell
at that meeting. The position of Government
with regard to Ireland. is one of very great diffi-
culty, and we fear Nlmisters will soon have cause
to lament their not having conciliated Mr.
O'Connell. During the whole of last Session,
and indeed since the Reform question was first
agitated, Mr. O'Connell rendered them the most
important services, and, independently of ever)'
other consideration, policy prescribed the attach-

ing such a man to their standard. The in-'
fluence of Mr. O'Connell in Ireland must always
render it much more easy to govern that country
with his aid than his opposition. This is the
language of the Dublin Evening Post, even while
preparing to enter the lists against him:—" It is
needless (says that able Journal) to reiterate the
regret which we then felt, and feel still, that Mr.
O'Connell was not placed in'a position in which his
talents and his knowledge might be available to
the services of the country, under an Adminis-
tration in which the country has an entire con-
fidence." There is one error in the conduct of',
the present Administration, against which we
have always protested, and which has led to
these unpleasant results in Ireland. In their
appointments they are more anxious to please
their opponents than their friends. Mr. O'Con-
nell is, of course, obnoxious to their opponents
for the best of all reasons, that he has done
more for Ireland than any other Irishman, not
excepting Mr. Grattan ; but the very hatred
borne to Mr. O'Connell by the opponents of
Ministers ought to have been his recommen-
dation with them. It is impossible to please
both enemies and friends ; and whoever attempts
it will find that the old adage of between two
stools is always applicable. The language of
the Irish Members in the House, on Monday
night, seems to us to indicate a common
sympathy with Mr. O'Connell. Mr. Sheil
showed pretty plainly how matters stood,
when he observed, significantly, that " the
Irish Members were not there to speak their own
sentiments alone—they were the representatives
of the people, and obliged to speak their senti-
ments. If, therefore, Ireland was agitated and
indignant, must not the Irish Members parti-
cipate in agitation and the indignant feelings of
their countrymen ?" Mr. M. O'Ferrall observed,
that " though it would be to him a matter of
great regret to forfeit his position in that House,
or in the country, yet he would say, that if Ire-
land could not obtain redress in the English Par-
liament, she must seek it elsewhere, and by
other means. He knew the consequence of
political combinations. He had seen their
effects in other countries, and he could well
imagine what they would prove in his own ; but
his countrymen possessed strong feelings," Be:,.
At a numerous Reform Meeting of the Queen's
County, on Wednesday, the 7th December,
Mr. James Grattan observed :

" I am of opinion that it would be a great national
benefit if the majority, or the whole, if possible, of the
Isish Members were to meet in Dublin under the name of
a ' National Council,' where they would receive evidence
of all that the people wanted and wished to hive done,
and demand laws that would be moulded to the wishes ot
the people.—(Cheers ) I am decidedly of opinion that
this is the only way in which the Irish Members can he
serviceable to their country. I have submitted this mea-
sure to Parliannnt, but by strong remonstrance I gave it
up; but it was still in the power of the Irish Members to
act as they pleased. If we are fixed and determined in
our course, Ireland must be saved, and even the Tories
must give way. The Reform Bill for Ireland should be at
least as good as that for England ; and if it were, it would
do away with all those bad laws with which we have
been afflicted. It might he said that it was difficult for
the Whigs to please all parties, but it was not dif-
ficult to do that which was just, to support and
asist the patty that was ready and willing to support
them.—(Cheers.) I will say this much, however, for
Lord Althorn, that I believe there is not an honester er
better-intentioned man o❑ earth. I will candidly avow
that there is no man in whom I would place more con-
fidence than in Lord Althorp ; and if there was such a
practice in the House of Commons as there is in the
House of Lords—l mean voting by proxy—l do not know
any man in whom I would sooner place that confidence of
voting for me by proxy than in Lord Althorp. We have
confined ourselves to Reform ; and although there are
other measures in which we are deeply concerned, we are
ready to forego them at the present, and sink all in the
great question of Reform.—(Hear. j"
" It might be said that it was difficult for the
Whigs to please all parties, but it was not diffi-
cult to do that which was just, to support and
assist the party that was ready and willing to
:support them !" So says Mr. James Grattan—
so says every other Irish Member ; and if Mi-
nisters abandon their friends for the sake of their
enemies, it is not difficult to predict the conse-
quences. In truth, things have come to such a
pass in Ireland, that half measures will no longer
do. Mr. O'Connell is determined that the
Protestant Church shall have no pre-eminence
in Ireland ; and he treats the mere arrangement
of the tithe system with contempt. The
question is, will he find support in Ireland ?
We have no doubt he will. We never can be-
lieve that the Irish people will be satisfied with
less than complete religious equality. There is no
time to be lost—Mr. O'Connell will, we believe,
have the people with him, if something is not done.
When Catholic agitation had proceeded so far
that it became necessary to act with decision, it
will be remembered that the declaration sub-
scribed by sixty-nine Peers connected with Ire-
land, expressive of their determination to use all
the means at their command to bring about a
concession of the Catholic claims, had a wonder-
ful effect on the issue of the question. We have
heard it observed, as rather extraordinary, that
the Peers, and other persons having large pos-
sessions in Ireland, and deeply interested in the
tranquillity of that country, should not at this
eventful crisis throw themselves between Mr.
O'Connell and the Government. Success could
only be hoped for from a bold and liberal policy,
calculated to range the people on their side.
Without adopting such a policy, all hostility to
Mr. O'Connell will be deemed by the people
hostility to themselves; and if the people are
not gained over, Mr. O'Connell will hardly fail
to get the better of them all. We are rather in-
clined to conjecture that such a thing as we have
indicated has been in contemplation ; and, with-
out expressing a positive opinion, we think that
the probability is, thatthe scheme would succeed.
—Morning Chronicle.
We leave to the clamorous promoters of excite-
ment, who denying Parliament the right of deli-
berating upon a great political question, raised,
last session, the foolish and ignorant cry of "the
Bill, the whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill,"
to reconcile as well as they can their discovery of
the excellence of the new Bill with their despe-
rate attachment to the tuhole and every part of
the former one, from which it differs its several
important particulars. For our own part, having
expressed our dissatisfaction with a considerable
portion of the detail of that measure, and pointed
out not a few defects in its construction, we have
nothing to repent of or retract in approaching the
present Bill, and considering it as if it were an
original proposition of Reform, on which, un-
restrained by any previous declarations, we are
free to give an unpledged and unbiassed opi-
nion. That opinion, upon a careful examination
of all the merits of the new measure, as pro-
pounded by its Noble mover, is decidedly favour.
able to the Bill. We do not say that it is a per-
fect measure—nor do we say that a better one
might not be framed; but we do say that, adhering,
as the new Bill does, to the great principles of the
old one, the alterations in the details are, for the
most part, improvements, calculated to carry the
theory of Reform into more satisfactory operation.
When we say that the alterations are for the

most part improvements, we are aware that '
some of them have been introduced as conces-
sions to the fears or prejudices of the opposite
party ; such as the criterion for the franchise in
the boroughs by the number of houses rated to
the assessed taxes for the last year, which resem-
bles more a representation on the principle of
property than of population, though it is in
reality rather a formal than a ..übstantial distinc-
tion ; also the preservation of corporate rights
and one or two other alterations, may be referred
to the same source. But, if these moderate
concessions will tend to facilitate the adjustment
of the great question, we think the disadvantage
of the sacrifice is far less than the public mischief
that might ensue from the excitement of feeling
and suspension of business attendant upon the
protracted agitation of the measure. The altera-
tion proposed in schedule A leaves the number
of boroughs to be disfranchised the same, but,
in consequence of the new criterion, it will ex-
change five boroughs with schedule B. The
other alteration proposed in schedule B,
whereby eleven boroughs, originally in-
tended to be included in that schedule, will,
according to the new criterion, return two Mein-
hers instead of one, we do not object to, more
especially as the additional Members are to be
given to as many newly-enfranchised towns, to
prevent any diminution of the Members which
the present House of Commons contains. Our
readers will recollect that a reduction of the num-
ber of Members of the House of Commons was
an important feature of the former Bill, and that
we objected to that reduction immediately after
the Bill had been introduced, and previously to
General Gascoyne's motion on the subject. We
argued then that, although the present number
of Members of the House of Commons might
be too many for an Aristocratic Senate, it was
not too numerous for the popular representation
of a great country. We also objected that the
curtailments of the long-established number of
representatives was a bad precedent, and might
hereafter be acted upon, until the popular
representation of the various interests of the
country might be cut down to the dimen-
sions of a close Senate. And when, more-
over, we observed that, with the present full
complement of Members, the attendance was
often far too scanty to discuss and decide upon
the important affairs of the empire, we thought
that a reduction of the number was not exactly the
way to remedy that practical inconvenience. We
are glad that Government now sees this part of
the subject in the same light that we did, and
that the proposed diminution of Members has
been abandoned. We agree with Lord John
Russell that the disfranchisement clause, which
involves schedule A of the Bill. and the carat).
chisetnent clause, are the two great pillars upon
which this measure of Parliamentary Reform
rests—and that " without those two clauses the
measure would be useless, and with them other
defects will be compensated for to the people of
England by the great advantages which it con-
fers on them by enfranchising the large and
wealthy manufacturing tossns, which have risen
into so much importance ; by disfranchising the
inconsiderable and decayed nomination boroughs;
and by securing to the people at large, and more
particularly to the cities and towns, the right of
voting, founded upon the ancient common law
of the land, only modified in so.rie degree, and
adapted to the present siate of society." Now
as to the constituency created in the towns by
the former Bill, it was confined to 101. house-
holders who were payers of rates ; but this limita-
tion, as Lord J. Russell admitted, would operate
in such a manner that, where a landlord was found
to have compounded for the rates, the tenant
would be unable to vote. It is therelbre one of
the advantages derived from the discussion on
the Reform Bill that this evil has been obviated,
and that it will be no longer in the power of
landlords to defraud tenants of their votes by
such a contrivance. The new Bill provides that
every person who occupies a house of the value
of 10/. a year shall have a vote, provided he be
rated to the poor on a tenement of not less than
that yearly rent ; and every tenant of a 10/. house
is empowered to demand that he be rated to the
poor-rates, in case he be not already a rate-payer,
in order to qualify him to vote under the above
provision. It is not unlikely that some discus-
sion will take place hereafter as to the propriety
of raising the value of the house qualifying the
voter in the larger cities and towns, and dimi-
nishing it in the smaller ones; but that at present
lies open. Another great alteration in the pre-
sent Bill from the former one is that by the
former Bill the right of voting in freemen of
corporations was to cease with the existing gene-
ration of freemen, but by the present Bill the right
to the franchise derived from birth or servitude is
to be continued for ever. If a great good can
be effected politically, without the destruction
of existing rights, we prefer that such rights
should be preserved. We see no rational objec-
tion in preventing freemen in corporations from
having votes when the constituency shall be
extended to all persons of the middle class, pro-
vided efficient legislative controul be exercised to
i on gf
Tito
,fh Noviloi a t
tahree er ae
le tcl
ooncsetai
tsuioe
on
oayl
bpreventythienemaanks
votes,
might upon any given occasion be overwhelmed.
There are some minor alterations, relative to the
simplification of the machinery of the Bill,
which it is not necessary for us to particularise
here. We have only to add that we sincerely
hope that, whatever may be thought by any party
in Parliament of the merits of the Bill, it will
receive that calm and dispassionate discussion
which can alone guide the Legislature to an en-
lightened and satisfactory decision. Parliament,
as well as the Press, has already displayed more
acrimony, personal feeling, and intemperance on
this question than is consistent with the dignified
and useful exercise of those high faculties which
ought to distinguish a deliberative assembly,
whose decisions regulate the destinies of an em-
pire. We have no objection that the Bill should
be thoroughly discussed, and that alterations or
amendments, come from what quarter they may,
should receive an impartial attention ; but most
assuredly no friend to his country will introduce
or support any proceedings calculated, at so mo-
mentous a crisis, to produce vexatious delay, or
add to the popular excitement.—Morning
Herald.

The present promises to be the most im.
portant session in the history of Parliament. The
settlement of the Reform question alone (which
it seems but reasonable to anticipate) would be
sufficient to entitle it to that distinction ; but
Ministers have already announced other projects
of a nature scarcely less bold or novel than the
one in which they are engaged. Amongst those
projects they have intimated an intention of look-
ing the difficulties of Ireland in the face—of meet-
ing the discontents of that country, not with the
old remedy—the bayonet, but with some healing
conciliatory measure which may operate on its
affections, not its fears. This is a wise deter-
mination, and, if wisely prosecuted, may do much

good in times when much is required to be done.
The steps already taken for the promotion of
education in Ireland are entitled to praise.
Ignorance has been one of the curses of that
country. To rescue it from ignorance would
not only be to deliver it from one of its
worst evils, but from one whose tendency is to em-
bitter all the rest.lt may likewise be expected that
when we undertake the cure of ignorance in that
part of the United Kingdom we do not mean
entirely to overlook its prevalence in our own,
so that, having set in earnest about instructing
the Irish, we may at length take measures for
the instruction of other people, who have equal
claims upon our consideration, including even
the state of their intelligence. But of all the
measures which seem to us to promise great
practical benefit, the modification of the tithe
system, if it be judiciously effected, is that from
which we expect most. The payment of Pro-
testant tithes by a Catholic population has always
been complained of in Ireland. The concession
of the Catholic claims, whether politic or imp -
lltic in itself, had a direct tendency to increase
that discontent. Other circumstances ha% e since
occurred to aggravate the feeling, until, at
length, it has produced a combination against
the payment of tithes, which the Government
must either break down by force or dissolve
by composition, in one shape or other.—
In choosing the latter course, we think they have
taken the better side of the alternative, though
there are not wanting some who think that the
cause of Government and religion would be
benefitted by employing force upon such an oc-
casion. Those, however, who have the inte-
rests of Christianity most warmly at heart, and
who, in behalf of those interests, are strongly
devoted to the principle of a religious establish-
ment, will scarcely object to the adoption of
any arrangement which may be calculated to
allay animosities, and reconcile the existing
breach between the Church and its reluctant sup-
porters. If the measure about to be introduced
upon this subject shall be attended with such an
effect—and if; moreover, the adoption of poor
laws, upon some improved plan, should relieve,
instead of aggravating pauperism in that country,
we shall have cause to remember the present
Session with feelings of satisfaction and gratitude.
But we have been assuming all along that the
prospects held out are in a train to be realised,
and the purposes avowed sufficiently digested,
both in principle and detail, to require nothing
but the opportunity of being put into action. It
is needless to observe, that if this be not the
case, the mere mooting of the question is an evil.
Morning Herald.
Notwithstanding the difficulties of our foreign
rivals in the silk manufacture, of which we sup-
pose it will be allowed we have had some proof
lately, it is also, we fear, to be apprehended, that
the trade is not very flourishing in two of the
places where it is chiefly carried on in this COUII-
- and Coventry. It is painful to
us to remind our neighbours of the loom, at
such a time as this, of their past misconduct ;
but we must just hint to them as a warning,
that some among their own body are themselves,
in part, the authors of their own distress, by
destroying, as they know they did some time
ago, the property of their employers, sent to
them, and confided to their trust, to be worked
up ; and in consequence of this we know that a
part of the trade has been removed from Spital-
fields. Having, mentioned this misconduct of a
portion, and we believe a small portion, of the
general body, we still hope that every thing will
be done for suffering individuals that hu-
manity prompts. The Coventry weavers have
waited upon the President of the Board of
Trade by deputation, by whom and his col-
leagues in the Ministry, we have no doubt their
complaints will be attended to. Lord Auck-
land's answer to the complainants is, we learn,
to be read by the Coventry deputation at a ge-
neral meeting in Bethnal-green.—Times.

The important subject of an adjustment of
tithes in Ireland will be brought before both
Houses of Parliament to-morrow ; in the Upper ,
by Lord Melbourne, in the Lower by Mr.
Stanley. In proposing any plan for alleviating
the great and growing evils resulting from the
flagitious system which the Popish priests are
attempting to establish in Ireland, it will be
especially necessary that there be no appearance
of concession to the views of those who, with
unparalleled audacity and contempt for the
laws, seek utterly to deprive the Protestant
clergy of their indubitable rights, and to
withhold from them even the means of
subsistence. To give any countenance what-
ever to machinations infamous as these would
be to aggravate the disease to an extent we are
unwilling to contemplate ; while firm and tempe-
rate measures, framed with an honest deter-
mination to do full justice to all parties, may
still be productive of the best results. To dis-
pute the right of the Clergy to the tithe is idle ;
that right is as positive and as indefeasible as
the right of any landowner to his estates, or of
any man in the kingdom to his lawfully-acquired
property of whatever description. Passing over
then this question, and looking to the method
of adjustment which ought to be adopted, we
will say that in this respect the interest of the
public and that of the Church entirely coincide.
It is for the good of both that a composition
should if possible be effected of a right which
is supposed by many persons to operate as a
check upon the recovery of waste and the im-
provement of cultivated land, although there is
no doubt that this particular evil has been greatly
exaggerated. It is for the good of both clergy
and people that a system which experience has
shown to be productive in a considerable num-
ber of instances of litigation and between
the clergyman and his parishioners should be
suppressed or modified. But there is a further
coincidence between the interest of the clergy
and that of the community at large, of which
those who now strive to excite a clamour
against the Church are but too well aware.
It is the interest of the community as well
as of the Church that the terms upon which
the composition for tithe is to take place
shall be as favourable as possible to the latter ;
for it cannot be justly denied that the incomes
received and distributed by the Clergy are, upon
the whole, so disposed of as to produce greater
good to society, more relief and solace to the
poor, examples more frequent and striking of
enlightened benevolence, in proportion to their
aggregate extent, than attend the expenditure of
any other class of the community. If this be so
—and we have undoubted authority for asserting
that in Ireland as well as in England it is so—it
follows of necessity than when the question of
tithe is once reduced to a question as to the
terms of composition merely, the interest of the
community at large requires, if there is to be an
advantage on either side of the bargain, that it
should be gained by the Clergy rather than by
any other party. This is so clear to us, that we
hear with the utmost surprise, not unmingled

with indignation, the assertion
zarded in Parliament, as well as e
the time has passed in which the
have obtained an advantageous adjus,
adjustment in which the just value of
actual and contingent, would have
taken into account and compounded
that now, if they be prudent, they
what they can get in lieu of what th,
gaily and morally entitled to. We sin(
that none of the doctrines of modern L
be suffered to vitiate the measure (if
he any actual plan) about to be submit
liament. Conciliation has had its
land. It has failed in nearly every insi
us hope that strict justice, not tem'
diency, will now guide the hand of

C

and that the dominion of the laws will
maintained against those who have
boldened by indulgence to set them
—Morning Post.

MARKET INTELLIGENCE.

LONDON MARKETS.
(From the London Nctty Price Curren

SUGAR. —The purchases of Muscovades last
eluding the public sales, were stated at 3,200
ire. ; the prices were firmly maintained.
Sugars went off at Market prices, but were .
ness. The stock of West India Sugar is now 41
and tr+., which is 1,872 less than la,t year.
Mauritius 84,330 bags, being 58,531 more t
The delivery of West India Sugar last week
and trs., being 251 more than last year. The
Mauritius, 5,613 bags, being 1,731 more than
responding week of 1830. The estimated
Muscovades this day, including the public
lihds. and trs. The St. Lucia Sugars went ,
the market generally is very firm. In Refined
was another decline, which facilitated sales;
reported at 58s. 6d. and 5Ss. but the latter
stated as the current market price ; fine
good request, which could not be supplied ;
pods deliverable a month hence were in co
sorted to. Molasses dull. In Refined this
was no alteration.

EAST INDIA SUGAR.—The East India Sugar
week was rather on a limited scale, but the '
supported ; Java rather higher; Mauritius Sr
a 525. 6d. This day's public sales, 3,091
tius, 558 bags Manilla, 193 bags Siam
prices.

FOREIGN SUGAR.—In Foreign Sugars ❑o
reported last week. Average price of Sugar
per cwt.

WE ir INDIA MOLASSES.—This day 46

Lucia 21s. 6d.

COFFEE.-The purchases of Coffee by I._
within a week are above 3,000 bags, of which
were Brazil, 55e. a 575. ; a parcel of St.
Batavia, 575. and 58s. ; Sumatra and
535. Jamaica is again 2s. higher, triage
good ordinary 85s. and 86s. ; fine Bet bice
90s. ; the finer descriptions of British P 1
neglected, and rate very low in proportion w
nary qualities. This day's public sale, 90
bag-, British Plantation, chiefly Berbice,
higher, brown ordinary Jamaica 84a.
The Market is firm, but Foreign and East Ink
Run, BRANDY, AND HOLLANDS.-There
Ira ure in the Rum market; the private pr
very low prices, hut the particulars du not trw
wards, Is. Sid. and proofs and 2 and 3
Brandy is held with much firmness at the late
There are sales of pale Geneva, 2s. 101. and

IRISH PROVISIONS.—In the last week the
Foreign Butter was 5,400 ca.ks—of Irish 1-
and of B icon 3,733 bales ; in addition to w
vessels have arrived yesterday and to-day with
B icon. The market continues in that d.,
our quotations must he considered nominal ,
lend Butter at the quay 98s. a 100 a. ; Cork
Limerick 91s. a 925. ; Carlow 945. a 98s. ;
90a. a 925. ; Newry, Sligo, Dublin, &c 86s.
les making on b( ant Fine sitig,ci 'Waterford
a 475. landed ;no disposition evinced by _
to purchase on board at the prices demanded by
pers. Bladder Lard, as to qual.ty, 625. a 655.
635. a 68s. landed ; fine Irish Hams 68s. a 74'
and tierce middles 445. a 4Ss. landed. In
landed or far shipment, but little doing.
OILS.—In Linseed and Rape Oils there has
business done fur the present and future delivery
made in Linseed Oil for exportation have been'
sive. Fish Oils are all dull of demand,
dining. The sales made in Olive Oil have
nearly 1,080 tuns have exchanged hands, a '
tion for shipping.

Met: —ln Rice there is no alteration.
Corrox. —The Cotton Market con tinues at et.
hut without briskness. The sales of the week
ISO Surat Sid. a sd. ; 120 Bengal 4:1. a 41d.
411 ; 160 Bowed 51. a 6d. ; 100 Egyptian

TOBACCO.—The only sale of any extent is
Kentucky at 205., manifest weight.
FRUIT.—The sale. last week were extensive ;
an i Cephalonia Currants at 675. ; new red St,
extensively at 431., and of new Valentia at 565.,
58s. is now asked.

This day's gale 1,518 brls. Red Smyrna
593 drums Sultana ditto 651. ; 7,942 drums
455. a 58s. To-night Red Raisins 425.
SPICES. —The only sale reported is 1,200
at Sid. ungifted.

INDIGO.—The late accounts from Cal,
that the Indigo crop has suffered from heavy
that it will be a moderate one. The market is
but there is very little doing ; 1,225 chests are
for sale on the 17th January, and it is general
that the sale will not exceed 4,000 chests.
1,190 chests Company's Indigo, declared for
January, 1832 ; valued at last sale's prises
mid. to good consuming qualities 21. 9d. to 3s.
chests good consuming to mid. shipping ditto,
4s. ; 317 chests mid. to good ditto, 4s. to 4s.
chests good to fine ditto, 4s. 6d. a ss. 3d. ; 621
fine ditto, ss. 3d. and upwards.
TEA. SAI.E.-We stated, on Tuesday last:
Boheas sold Is. 1141. to 2s. lid., being 1i(
higher than the previous sale. On the arri
news from China that the trade would not be
the Ist of August, lint that the English
submit to the severe restrictions of the
received advices from the Governor of India,
the ships would be loaded and despatched, the
became dull, and an attempt was made to lower
of Boheas, but there was no gent nil reduction ;
the Congou at the India sale went off rather
still the inferior qualities went a shade higher
previous sale, and tle fine Id. per lb. higher.
of Congou Tea finished to-day with some spiri,,
low ones went off a shade above yesterday's price' ,
pang's Souchongs have sold extraordinarily cheeri

a -

11,1
tt,o;

b °'.:ajleCstY
]
Illhalaaseutievt:lees(mue:tosi"hetefbtieriuei'gytillere:illt,44%ll,iftri;.ii3OrastatnriP..,aila'ltieihai::irrar,,eri),°j.r,e,reualisass:iact.
d
.lileillinatslitlinetctdeedrefll' 4 Wighttes:_
rn liberals r
1
:4 t the I
„e'Zit.nalilli
its day 1 0 h;. ,
I .hisi).:es(ea' they
flimnvi‘rGne‘P.i will be
Iliaebnedel temporary
o't}':
ll'it'tan.a this
t
en d T
Itni •
Isof
i not 041911"
;ENCE. ~,,
. _Ai of
tFe b
aratd3e4,Y2elo6:o7:: l'3etitilioenarsurlia
,3. The St. tilauary, i
sere withoul, Aral day.
year. The it, bland
fore than 11 4ja ann!
week 3,0 lona of k
Mr; ea
ttedTh ahnep
uid:1:: 4:4ittrthaltnialtani '
iblic sales9l.'
went off 10 'l4,F,i)lth
Refined go" hrir;ual'e
sales; Leo. 441'`ne of t
latter cannot kt()eaet and
fine goods ll.Br, will
plied ; eon' 'to' • It it
in conseq, ',Ler will I
this afternool ,„71, whit
."1 the
dia Sugar : 1 U
mt the Pr ItSi
tins Sugatl4 'or Court
091 bags Of' IT,NE the
rm—all sold .4, uRNE.
10;fr,r are
gars no 10 ...lII'S, late
Sugar lb -341 , 1 I Count
82
e
r 46 we.' P44,i,1l rtry 1.
t, at fir,
' 1
by private i thaile, Lt
age
gbliveiachneaitecathhtriiiiiiglir:i
\,!
1:;lior,
:. Domingo -"rd thi
4
i Samaraoi''
to AL
rtion with 1,Y,, Cot, ED
ale, 90 es" Wires
•rbi se, sold 1 "or
0., middll 't ON
past India 4" 'lli, geo
-There is P't2t,ht'ET,
ate purebarte iii,ir4ive pa
not Iranspif 41e „Prat
essi
rid 3 over 44ti?Polis,
it the late 'i ekl!'E ill g
d. and 2s. l' ,41c ,r) I
reek the U° e'stlys:l)A
risk 19,080 l'erth'Y of
m to v010'41,44, I, per
ay with Outt;# Ittiih...eat,
: depressed • i 'Not", in
ni not : --CO(' Attu
Cork 92,.1 4' 'NC(
a 98s. ; ‘l. ktdeet, Wit
P •
cc 86s. a 9 141 tO
ens
r'aterford 13s° II!.
r the cheese' . f race
landed by ,be ;i4I retrial
I.• a 655. 0° 'H 41. Or
Bs. a 745., Perioc
lu Beef of ‘,,i41, Cle
• ti, °Ye, a'
, Illa
here has bee \ 1......f_T"
delivery • illj
e s
:se been vet,: A ,
tnd, and pry in(
it have bee° tttv ha,
ids, a large 14,i4tiYel
fr
,t• ti, in
iir'te. '
ti 0, ,
nuesat stetol ,tl,O lon fi
.t the e
41d.we e;/‘sci) 'f
otite;ffare re
yptian 61,L., 1tt0,44!
vent is a ' tvi (3Xfo
)4,44,1411;
itensive ; oel ! ,tit tine 1
red Sinyros ,s 4; 'nolut
is at 563., Pr lAsh"
4' '\-' -""
ay Raisiso -
drums poi hit
~..
1,200 bag 11
Af 4th, t gr
i Calcutta , 4:44..43,..6
n heavy iliel 144-'4 it,
arket is veil will topyir
hest! are ad j k)ii,the
rr
s generally Ir. 'ori, S ti
its. Assure' ilti,hl thw
ared for sale' 11tf;',„°n b
prises :--14:n, 11;50 ttl
)d. to Ss. 61161 tote 41 in
3g ditto, S'' ,1 bop' *be
6s. to 4s. 63'; ht 4th
3d. ; 62 cliee 1 ktte_elieve
J lit:elat, t
',day last, ti;yit"sit.
being I id. , di o,lls4l,Yr" V
the arriv,'d lilt'ir 4 ne,
A not be el tare
h Committeiliii %NI Wit
he Chinese ),1 ...!ale
India, anas, 4: 14,
ched, the 'fey R.
eto lower 111,41f4 R.
duction ; ,U:,4 It* s
I rather 10°,,0j ?It:Lhor yt
de higher ef;:v ri to it
aces
. higher. lit ,f4,1,1,vr
irne spirit, ° i:f i IVeli
day's price,' ,re
ti "Deep
p
4., Il."Der.' it

6 . v
are 6d. to 7d. per lb. under the last sale's Price'. e. ('‘ ht,:ci) '
; hued
of
kays have begun as high as last sale. Boheas i 5 di e
id. to Id. discount, but no sellers. . ,e, : i‘,th:ttab
Dittics (CHOLERA' ARTICLES).—These arti.,c'oli :!11,0%„3
very dull ; Camphor nominally about 141. ; C jet' ' tit,i_
ss. to 6s. ; Opium ISs. 1,, st,
4 t ge
.
IRISH MARKETS. a. di ,No -•••11
1 4ths
DUBLIN MARKET NOTE..-.FRIDAY, Dec. 4l'' I 44
of,o
From To 'ft VI ~..13f a
3,121 Wheat, per barrel 20 stone 21 0 33 0 p ii„,'qett,
39'2 Bele -...............—. 16 stone 13 0 14 6 1) ;,'`q di,.
334 8ar1ey......,..........._ 16 stone 13 0 17 6 10 ;(1 1, -'6cl
4,164 Oat.- —l2 stolid 9 9 14 6 0 :14; ttion
7,018 Cwt. Flour 9 stone 4 0 23 0I ii tttits
663 Oatmeal . 8 stone 10 6 14 6 1
I- ' k ~,,,
,-:
Sold to Rakers only.
,- 4
5,709 Cwt. Flour l5 0 23 0 „ck. ,ge p
Average price of Wheat and flour 465. Bd. per 6'OV:,,J L ,‘„740,,
First. from 21s. 03.1 ,f, ~,C. 7.
Receipts of Flour, 12,76918 (40 -..---
from 15s. Cki. ;," 1r 4,,,' ;•Pen
Sales of Do. 11,013 Thirds. from 4s. Od. ',, ir"1104,4
?RICE OT BREAD. ' trip,
'6,i, e i
Quartern Loaf . Sld. I Half Quartern ...--"" ktl,ll. (14.1;
Wheat, Barley. Oats. Flotir,Jsl.,, Ltril,
per barrel per barrel per barrel , 7 ,74111,. -`
20 stone. 16 stone. 14 stone. lot.
...„/ % : 10
---- - bil til,, qpei
(i. 3. a s.d. s.d. a s.d. .. d. a s.d. s. 3. as. d. ';.. el i_ 4,S ezi.,
Cork .....-.... 0 32 3 11 0 16 01 9 6 11 016 0 20 0 t, 01 n 44 ~,
Limerick 1_66 30 013 0 14 012 0 13 618 0 206 100 1 'I Pf
W,iterfordl26 0 :31 0 13 0 16 010 0 11 018 0 20 0 ,50 '4- ge 1
Clonmel ...I'M 8 20 0 1.0 6 15 013 6 13 9r20 0 20 0 'OO/ ' the e,
Carlow ......25 0 36 0,14 0 16 010 0 I I 6120 6 21_12,___,.., 'ttr,„4 •
nutter., 61,_" net;
Beef, Mutton, Pork, ."`Tifie,
per lb. per lb. per cwt. ist. 2d. 3d. ,
_.......
Id. ad, d. a d.ls. d. a s.d. s. d. s. d. s. d• 00 '144113,0,
Cork -........ 4k 6 3/1 526 0 3.3 094050 0 84 0 Er; 101 u r.,,
Limerick- 3 43f 431 0 35 0,97 0930 88 0.0 N `lO
Waterford 4 6 3 635 0 36 0198 0940 80 9 itttri
Conmel - 4 5 5 634 0 35 019 t 0870- ,' • y di.
Car10w.....- 4 51 0 00 0 0 0190 096 086 0 The.,
1
MARRIED. 'O4 ,r' to
On the 13th inst. R. T. Gilpin, Esq. only son of Hi ,is,,fi,.. l'
-It
pin, Esq. of Hockliffe Grange, Bedfordshire, to Louis3p,oo' 'utes......_
of Lieutenant-General Browne, of Weymouth, in the ' hi._ • '
Dorset. ftts.
. Is
PRINTED AND PUBLIsnEo BY MU RDO YOUNOs
SUN OFFICE. 112 STRAND LONDON