The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-01 00:00:00

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veroment were accommodated with seats. He had al-
ways, however, crowded as the meeting might be, taken
care that the note-takers had sufficient accommodation. If
..here bad been seditious intentions on his part, or on the
part of any of his friends, was it likely that they would
have uttered such setitimettts at those meetings ? He bad
been accused of creating agitations. He begged to say
that they who had issued the three proclamations bad
themselves been guilty—
" Mutat° nomine, dote

Fabula narratur."
He was well persuaded that he wearied the House with his
remarks—(Bear)--but he hoped to be excused. Slaves
indeed would his countrymen he, if they did not .endeavour
to obtain that legal relief to which they were so justly en-
titled. Ile thought that the Belgians, the Poles, and the
Swiss, had acted nobly. There were two parties in Ireland
whom he was anxious to instruct. There was, first, the
Government to teach in their duties ; then, secondly, the
people, the means of obtaining their rights. After com-
plaining of the manner in which the Jury had ben struck
in his own case, the Hon. Gentleman said, that such a
course of proceeding would not have been allowed in Eng-
land, and he again adverted to what had taken place in
Ireland, declaring that no injury had been done by the
people, that no law had been broken, and that they had
been most unjustly treated. He then declared that he
looked upon the Whig Admini-tration as being leas friendly
to Ireland than the preceding one, and, in conclusion, said
he would ever endeavour to obtain for his fellow.country-
men those natural rights to which they were entitled.
Lord ALTHORP—From the habitual legal subtlety of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he seemed to attend
merely to the letter of an Act of Parliament, and to think
that if the letter were not infringed the spirit was quite
immaterial; but he would find it difficult to persuade the
House to accord with him in opinion. He had contended
that the excitement had been produced entirely by the con-
duct of Government; but was there no agitation before
the proclamations were issued? He (Lord Althorp) had
thought that it had been the pride, boast, and triumph of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that he had produced
agitation.—(Hear, hear.) It was very well to call the
meetings in Dublin breakfasts ; but that name had only
been adopted for the sake of evading the law, and every-
body of common sense must know these breakfasts were
mere pretences for illegal assemblies. His Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. Stanley) had laid the case fairly before the
House, and the only answer to it was, that no instance of
outrage could he quoted. Was it to be believed, or was it
in the nature of things, that such meetings should have
been permitted, and continued, without in the end pro-
ducing tumult and disorder? It was said that the hurlers
were respectable farmers of Kilkenny, but had not the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself avowed that their
real object was the abolition of tithes. This was not the
mode in which respectable men set about the attainment
of honest ends; and if such assemblies were to be permit-
ted, what would the Hon. and Learned Member consider
unlawful meetings? As to the " influence " which these
hurlers were called upon to exercise, what was to be un-
derstood by the word but terror and compulsion? It was
not necessary for him to say more the House had heard
the statement of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and of
his Right Hon. Friend, and it might safely be left to time
and the country to judge whether the Hon. and Learned
Member was so extremely cautious and unwilling to pro-
duce excitement in Ireland as he had represented.—(Hear.)

Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON observed, that the discus-
sion bad not at all enlightened the House upon the main
point by whom and in what way the communications had
been made to Ministers relative to the late prosecutions ;
all that had been elicited was, that both sides were anxious
to disclaim the originating of these communications. Al-
though the meetings were decidedly an evasion of the law,
that evasion had been permitted until this law, which made
the Lord Lieutenant a Dictator. There was no real Union
between Great Britain and Ireland—no community of bless-
ings and advantages ; but all suffering on the one side, and
all tyranny on the other. The charges of sedition came
with an ill grace from the Noble Lord, who not long since
was rejoiCing in the triumphant display of the tri•culoured
flag. The hearts of the Irish people were fixed upon the
repeal of the Union, and nothing would satisfy them but
the accomplishment of their wishes. He was proud to
think that his name would be associated with the agita-
tions for the repeal of the Union, that Ireland might be
restored to the situation in which she stood in 1782.
Mr. STANLEY said a few words in a low tone, as to
the nature of the prosecutions, and the comparative degree
of punishment that would have followed them.
Mr. S. RICE challenged the agitators and friends of
the repeal of the Union to a full and free and calm discus-
sion of the merits of the question in the Imperial Parlia-
ment, which seemed to him a much fitter arena than be-
fore the hurlers of Kilkenny. All rational men must be
satisfied that a maintenance of the Union was essential to
the welfare of Ireland, and that the repeal of the Union
implied usurpation, ruin, bloodshed, the overthrow of the
Constitution, and the establishment of a Republic of the
worst character.

After a few words from O'CoNwou Dow, the petition
was read and laid upon tlse table.

COLONIAL TRADE BILL.

---...—
On the motion of Mr. P. THoMPsoN, and after a re-
mark from Mr. Hermits, the Committee on the Colonial
Trade Bill was postponed until Friday, in order that he
might prepare a schedule of the duties by which the
measure ought to be accompanied.
PETITIONS FOR REFORM.

Mr. LITTLETON adverted to a number of petitions in
favour of Reform in Parliament that still remained to be
pre-ented, and to the three ballots which were fixed for
to-morrow. He suggested, therefore, that the petitions
ought to be now presented, before the House proceeded to
other business,
Lord ALTHORP agreed that it was highly proper that
the petitions should he presented.
Mr. BENETT said that he had a petition to present
from Wiltshire.
Colonel DAVIES wished to proceed to the business of
the day. There were no less than twenty-seven Orders
of the Day, and thirteen Motions—enough of themselves
to occupy the House for a fortnight.
Mr. BENETT expressed his surprise at the objections
of the Hon. Member for Worcestershire. He (Mr. Benett)
had come down to the House before ten o'clock for the pur-
pose of entering his name upon the Speaker's paper ; but
even at that early hour found a great number of gentlemen
were before him. _

The Marquis of CHANDOS was understood to favour
the reception of the petition, and put a question to the
Noble Lord opposite, respecting the Game Laws' Amend-
ment Bill.
Mr. J. WOOD confirmed the statement of the Hon.
Member for Wiltshire. He himself also had come down
to the House before nine o'clock, and at that hour found
thirty names on the Speaker's paper before his. He re-
gretted that there should have been such an accumulation
of petitions unpresented upon a subject at this moment the
most important and interesting to the public. He recom-
mended Hon. Gentlemen to allow the petitions to be pre-
sented immediately.
An Hox. Mimosa, whose name we could not learn,
and who was not distinctly audible, recommended that a
Committee should be appointed for the purpose of receiv-
ing public petitions.
Mr. CALVERT was quite inaudible on aCconnt of the
noise. From the few words which reached us we under-
stood him to approve of the suggestion of the Hon. Mem-
ber who preceded hi.n. _

Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN was also inaudible, on
account of the noise.

Mr. VENNAN T, amidst much noise and coughing, at-
tempted to address the House.
Mr. LITTLETON said that unless the petitions on
the subject of Reform were then received, the only course
left for the Hon. Members to whom they were entrusted
would be, to present them at an hour of the night when
there would be no one in the House to hear them. He
considered it highly improper that the House should not
hear the petitions of the people on a subject of such im-
portance.
The SPEAKER then put the question on the bringing
up of the petition.
Lord ALTHORP said, that if the public business were
interrupted for the sake of pretientinet petitions, it would
e,tablish a precedent which might bea attended with very
great inconvenience; yet he admitted that it was very true,
that if the petitions on Reform could not be presented that
night, the Hon. Members who held them would find it
very difficult to have them received before the motion of
his Noble Friend upon the subject of Reform. He wished,
therefore, to gratify time feelings of those gentlemen, and
he certainly should not object to the reception of the
Reform petitions, if Hon. Members would not unneces-
sarily occupy the House and delay the public business in
presenting them. He was desirous of correcting, before
he sat down, an error into which a Noble Lord opposite
had fallen. He had not acquiesced in the proposition of
the Noble Lord respecting the Game Laws' Amendment
Bill. He did not think the Bill of so much importance
that he would voluntarily consent to its having precedence
of the public business of the Session.
Mr. CALCRAFT considered the subject of Reform the
most important that occupies the House and the country at
present. He thought it inexpedient for the House to hear
the statement which was proposed to be made to-morrow,
of the intentions of his Majesty's Ministers on that im-
portant question; before it should have heard the prayers
of the people on the same subject. If the petition!, should

~~

be deferred until to-morrow, their presentation would oc-
cupy so much time that the motion of the Noble Lord
could not conveniently be brought on. Should even dis-
cussions arise upon them that night, so that all could not
be presented, the few that might remain would not take
up so much time, as to interfere with the Noble Lord's im•
portant motion. He thought the House ought to deviate
on that occasion from its ordinary rules.
The Marquis of CHANDOS said, that although the
Noble Lord (Lord Althorp), and other lion. Members
opposite, might not consider his proposition, respecting
the Game Laws' Amendment Bill, to be of great import-
ance, they would allow him to hold a very different
opinion on the subject. He should act, therefore, on his
own opinion, and if the Noble Lord was disposed to let
the measure drop off, he (the Marquis of Chandos) would
bring in his Bill on Monday next, no matter at what
hour of the morning he should find an opportunity of
doing so.
Lord JOHN RITSSEILL agreed with the Hon. Member
for Worcester, that it was expedient that all the petitions
on the subject of Reform should be presented before the
measures of Reform, contemplated by his Majesty's Mi-
nisters, be submitted to the House. He wished that there
should be a proper understanding as to the hour in which
his motion would he brought forward, and, therefore, he
took that opportunity of mentioning that he should pro-
pose it at six o'clock.—(Hear, hear.)
General GASCOYNE would infer, from what had
been said upon the other side of the House, that the Noble
Lord anticipated the !ejection of his Bill to-morrow night.
—( Hear, laughter, and cries of " No, no.") As re-
garded the petitions, he would recommend that the same
mode should be adopted for their reception as had been
adopted, respecting the petitions on the Catholic qua stion.
--(Hear, hear.) Before he sat down, he wished to call
the attention of the House to what he had heard respect-
ing a person who had been guilty of extremely disorderly
conduct in the gallery, which seemed to have been passed
by entirely without notice. It did not become the dignity
of the House to allow the Member for Waterford to he
insulted with impunity. He (Gen. Gaseoyne) had had the
honour of sitting in that House for nearly thirty years,
and in all that time lie had never witnessed so insulting a
breach of its privileges.—(Cries of "Move, move.") It
was not for him to make any motion on the subject. It
was the deity of the Noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, to take the opinion of the House upon the breach of
privilege as soon as it was communicated to him.
The SPEAKER said—lt is always important that I
should set an Hon. Member right when I perceive him to
in error. On this occasion it is the more necessary that I
should set the Hon. and Gallant Member right, as, if there
bad been any error in the omission of which he complained,
the fault would be attributable to me more than to any one
else. When I made the communication to the House,
that the person who had violated its privileges was in
custody, the Noble Lord (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer) came to me, and inquired whether it was the proper
course to bring the individual to the bar ? I thought it
more becoming the dignity of the House, that, whilst its
business was going on, the offending person should be
kept in custody ; and that, after the House had gone
through its own business, they the individual in custody
should be brought to the bar, to be dealt with as the House
may think proper. The Hon. and Gallant Member must
be aware that a person being in custody by the order of
the House cannot he liberated until he shall have received
its judgment —( Hear.)
General GASCOYNE explained.
Sir R. PEEL, as he understood the Noble Lord to say,
that the public business would not be seriously impeded
by the presentation of the petitions nu Reform, did not
think any inconvenient precedent could be established by
their being received.—(Hear.)—For his own part, he
was quite disinterested in the matter, as he had but two
petitions to present, and of these one was in favour of
Reform, and the other against it.—(Hear, and laughter.)
After a few words from Mr. Tennant, Mr. Hunt, Mr.
Duncombe, and Lord Althorp, it was moved and carried
that the petitions be brought up.
Mr. BENETT brought up the petition, which was
from Wiltshire, praying for Reform and vote by ballot.
He afterwards presented petitions from Louth and from
several other places,
Mr. LEE LEE presented two petitions in favour of
Parliamentary Reform—one from Ilminster, in Somerset-
shire; and the other from the borough of ilintion, in
Wiltshire. The petitions were similar in their complaints,
and asked for relief from the same grievance=. He sup-
ported the petition.
Mr. LYTTLETON presented several petitions from
Staffordshire, in favour of Reform, of which four prayed
for• the extension of the franchise to the petitioners them-
selves. They had been signed by people of all ranks,
rich and poor. Pie never knew petitions which had been
agreed to more unanimously than these.
Sir J. WROTTESLEY supported the petitions.

Mr. ADEANE presented several petitions in favour of
Reform, from places in the county of Cambridge; from
the district of St. Mary, in the Isle of Dy ; from Mel-
bourne, Fordham, and Wisheach.

Sir M. RIDLEY presented a similar petition from Bar-
nard Cattle, in the county of Durham.
Mr. BELL presented a similar petition from the county
of Northumberland, and stated, that it had bad been
agreed to unanimously irt a great county meeting, at
which the High Sheriff presided. It had 3,000 signa-
tures. He presented another petition, on the same sub-
ject, from the town of Heithrtm, in that county.
Sir R. BATESON presented a petition from the city
of Londonderry, praying for Parliamentary Reform and
the abolition of useless places. He entirely concurred in
the prayer.
STAMFORD ELECTION.

Mr. TENNYSON had a petition to present, which,
although it did not pray for Parliamentary Reform, was
closely connected with the subject. It was the petition
of the electors of Stamford, complaining of the interfer-
ence of the Marquis of Exeter with the exercise of their
franchise.
Tlie SPEAKER reminded the Hon. Member that the
House bad came to the understanding that petitions, only
praying for Reform, should be presented, until all such
petitions should have been received.
Mr. TENNYSON, accordingly, postponed the Stam-
ford petition to a future