The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-08 00:00:00

CHURCH

, -
MEETIOCI AT THE CITY OF LONDON TA"/ERN.
t!1 PA PAY.)
This day a public meeting of the `‘ Chitral iiate Abolition Society"
Wm held at the City of London Tavern, for the peirtsYs@ teteiving
the report Of the Committee, and taking into consideration such frirther
proceedings as the present state of the question might require. We
understand that Lord Brougham was expected, as he had stated that
he would attend if it were possible for him to arrive in time from Calais.
But nothing further had been heard from him, when the time ap.
Pointed for taking the chair had arrived. The meeting, although re-
spectable, was by meatts so fitly attended as is usually the case at
the public meetings of this :;oeiety, There were a great num-
ber of ladies present, although it had Lech stated in the first
advertisement that ladles would not be admitted, in conse-
quence of its having been asserted that the meetings were attended prin-
cipally by young girls. On the platform we observed Mr. Baines, M.P.,
Mr, Harvey, M P., Mr. Hiedley, M.P., the Rev. Mr. Burnet, &c. Sir
C. E. Sml', Bart., was called to the Chair.
The Crtattotax said, that at the last time they met in that rmm
they had anticipated that before their next meeting they would have
' made much prrgress, lusters(' of being even much further from
attaining their object; and yet, id some respects the latter was
the cases.-Hear; hear.) Within two days of the last meeting of the
Society the Governutent had proposed a measure for the extinction of
Church-rates, and for stalstittithig in their place a fund to be derived
from the better management and Increased value of Cathedral property.
The Society had then on harrier to its wisliVa hilt the opposition of those
who are, and ever will be, the opponents of the patplo.—(Hear, hear.)
But now circumstances were changed, and they were told by those whom
they regarded as their friends of the House of Commons, that they fly not
expect to carry the abolition of Church-rates this sesslim, the Committeo
to inquire into the subject not having been appointed until May. He
much regretted that the Government should not have thought it right to
propose the Committee at an earlier period of the Session, because if
they had done so when they had met, or after Christmas, there would
have been time to demonstrate that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
wore below the mark, and that the funds of the Cathedrals would pro-
duce infinitely more even than he calca'ated—(Hear)—and if not to
carry the measure into law, at least to make the attempt in the Upper
House of Parlirment.—(Hear, near.) That meeting was for prac-
tical purposes, and to consider the course which was to be adopted. In
doing so, it was, in the first place, necessary to consider in what po-
sition they were now placed. Were they to believe that the Govern-
ment were not still of opinion that a substitute for church-rates can be
found ? Or were they to attribute their slowness to altered circum-
stanceS ?—(Hear.) The fact was, that they had decreasing majorities
in the House Of Commons.—(Hear.) But still he thought they ought
to go forward on their. principles, come what might.—(Hear) They,
however, did not wish to have their measure passed by so small a ma-
jority in the Commons that the Lords would kiC.lt it out with con tempt.—
(A laugh.) The first thing the opponents of Church-r Ates had to do
in the present state of things was to infuse a better spirit into the Ilri lee
of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) There was no decrease of feeling on the
question—but at the last election there was a most unsparing use of the
corrupt and profligate practices of Toryism.—(Hear.) Let the Society
then use every exertion to rouse the country and to petition Parliament.
Recollecting the adtantages which the cause of Reform had derived from
the Duke of Wellington's declaration that Reform was not necessary,
and Dr. Chalmers had just rendered a similar service to the volun-
tary system.—(Cries of" Hear, hear.") His arguments had established
the truth of the voluntary principle.—(Hear.) The Learned Doctor had
forgotten the proverb, that " those who live in glass houses ought not to
be the first to throw stones."—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) It was ad-
mitted by all practical men, that Church-rates were the cause of great
heart_burnings throughout the country. Sir Robert Peel's measure
would not be a remedy ; it would substitute for the Church-rate a charge
upon the taxation of the country, but it would create a new tax
upon the Dissenters for the support of the Church; whereas the measure
of Government would be a complete and final remedy, and would throw
upon the Church property the maintenance of the Church fabric.
Churchmen should be warned not to oppose the adoption of that mea-
sure lest they should give rise to new questions, such as this—if the
Dissenters pay for the repair of the Church, and the preservation of the
Church-yard, have they not a right to the free use of these without the
interference of the Clergy ?—(Hear, hear.) He concluded by urging
the meeting to press this question upon the electors of the country, be-
fore the elections which must shortly take place in consequence of the
vacancies which will take place in the House of Commons at the Coro-
nation. In doing so it was not necessary they should hurt the Ministry.
They might remember that William Tell shot the apple on his son's
head : let them consider the Ministry as the son, and Church.rates the
apple, and remember that they would have less danger of hitting the
Ministry by shooting steadily than with a vacillating hand.—(Laughter.)
The SECRIVEARY then proceded to read the report of the Committee,
which, after detailing the grounds on which the Society had been
formed, pointed out the exertions which had been made by its members
for the attainment of the object in view. Associations similar to the
present had been formed in almost all the large towns, affording the
Society the most useful and valuable assistatlce. During the last session
the number of petitions presented to the House of Commons was
2,328, bearing 674,719 signatures for the extinction of Church-rates,
and repudiating all compromise.—(Mr. O'Connell here entered the room,
at this part of the proceedings, and was received with loud and enthu.
elastic cheering.)
EDWARD /lams, Esq , M.P., rose to move—That this meeting,
deeply anxious to promote the extension and increase the efficiency of
the Church-rate Abolition Society, cordially adopt the Repori now read,
and resolve that it be widely circulated, in order that the principles
which it avows may be generally known, and that it may rouse into
activity all the constitutional powers that can be brought to bear
against an impost so unscriptural and' unjust in itself, and so
vexatious in its operation. In the sentiments of the report he
cordially concurred, and he believed the history of the for-
mation of the Society was given with great modesty, and
at the same time with great accuracy. A Society better cal.
culated to promote the object for which it was formed could
not be imagined. The principle which it was established was
that of every man supporting his own religion and his own religiovs edi.
flee out of Isis own purse—(Cheers) ;—and nothing could be more simple
and correct than such a principle. It never could have entered into the
mind of any man except a domineering aristocrat to devise a scheme for
putting his hand into another person's pocket to support his
chureh.—(Loud cheers.) The Report stated the progress of the
measure of Church.rates in Parliament, and he (Mr. B.) really
thought it was not altogether unsatisfactory—for in reality there was
an increase of 50 per cent, upon the majority on the last Parliament.
That ought not to discourage.theni, and above all things else, it ought
not to produce any relaxation, and want of energy in their exertions.—
( mdsi.e 1 His friends generally imagined that he was siao,. by
Ministers, and he believed that to be an honest opinion, but his
support of Ministers went no further than this--that so
long as they supported good measures, and so long as
he thought they would be better than those who would take their places,
he would support them.—(Cheers.) With respect to Ireland—and lie
never heard Ireland mentioned but it associated in his mind the name
of O'Connell along with it,—(Loud cheering,) What would become of
Ireland if Sir Robert Peel and his associates were in office ? Would the
Church of Ireland, would the people of Ireland be mended by this change?
On the contrary, a greater injury could not be inflicted on them
With respect to Scotland, a Reverend Doctor had come all the way from
Edinburgh—(Laughter)—to enlighten the dull understanding of the
people of the South—(Loud laughter)—by telling them there was no
such a thing as a Church existing, unless supported by the State, and un-
less upheld by all that majesty and dignity which attached to the mo.
narchy.—(Cheers.) But he (Mr. B.) wondered how the Christian
religion existed before they were established.—(Cheers.) Now,
with respect to the endowments of Churches in Scotland. If the
present Ministers were turned out, Sir William Rae and others would
endeavour to induce Sir R. Peel to put his hands into the pockets of the
people, in order to support what they called religion in the destitute
parts of Scotland, by granting money for endowments.—(Hear, hear.)
Now, as to the question of Church Rates in England, Ministers had, on
the last occasion, acted like men, anti were properly rewarded by
having their majority increased from five to eleven.—(Cheers.)
It was certainly not a large majority, but it prevented other
Ministers from governing the country.— (Hear, and Cheers.) It
would enable the present Ministers to make the coronation
peers, and if his lion. and Learned Friend near him (Mr. O'Connell)
had any ambition for a peerage, he (A. B.) thought they could not place
a better man on the woolsack.—(Loud cheers.) Allusion was made in
the report to the course taken in the populous parishes in England.
His opinion was, that if there was one thing more than another which
had recommended him to his eonstitutents, it was his uniform opposi-
tion to Church rates.—(Cheers.) In the parish of Leeds they had come
to the voluntary principle, and he hoped, if the law would not give them
redress, that principle would be adopted in every parish.—(Cheers.)
ANDREW WHITE, Esq., M.P. (Sunderland), in rising to second the
resolution, complimented the Chairman for the active part which he had
taken in the concerns of the Society.--(Cheers.) Church-rates he con-
sidered a badge of slavery on the Dissenters of the country. Although
not a Dissenter himself he had a warm heart towards the nonconformist,,
but for whom the state of religion in.this country would be at a very low
ebb.—(Cheers.) The Church of England had a revenue of upwards
,coi:r3na,tt7eotsoba,nitdohoerilo.
wtpee:rrkcaeinneigditucBnlo.4.gOypcf
was
talarsinsnlaus,u,,ndm the average amount paid to
under
nlrl,otohoe,otoootlal
peramount
a,r, h
um.—
(shame.) What became of the rest ? It went into the hands of the
Bishops, Deans, pluralists, &c., and these were not the men who
were the best calculated to support religion.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
It aas said that the Church was in danger, but if that was the case it
was from the conduct of the bishops and clergy of that Church.
(Cheers.) Although it might appear there was a smaller number of
Liberals in this Parliament than the last, the phalanx was more firm
and united than ever.—(Cheers.) For the confirmation of this fact, he
might appeal to the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) The object of the Tories was to displace
the present Ministers, and turn them out before the coronation, in order
that they might have the making of the coronation Peers.—(Hear,
hear.) Representing as lie did a large constituency, he felt it to be
his duty to attend the present meeting, and express their opinion, for
not less than three-fourths of the inhabitants of Sunderland attendca
non-conformal places of worship.—(Cheers.)
The resolution was then put and carried unanimously.
The CHAIRMAN then read letters which had been received from Mr.
Easthope, M.P., Lord Nugent, Mr. Hume, M.P., Mr. Charles Lushing.
ton, M.P., Mr. C. P. Villiers, M.P., Mr. Pryme, M.P., Mr. Fazakerly,
M.P., Mr. Rippon, M.P., and several other distinguished persons.
At this time there was a considerable accession of numbers, and the
room was crowded

Mr. }LINDLEY, in moving the first resolution, said that as it was a
very long one, he would not trouble the meeting with a long spe.ech.—
(Cries of " Go on.") He would not make a long speech, the more espe.
cially as the meeting had yet to hear an eloquent and Rev. Friend of his,
and his Hon. and Learned Friend Mr. O'Connell.—(Vehement cheers.)
The resolution was—That the state of this agitating question in the Bri-
tish Parliament awakens great anxiety among all who earnestly desire
that " Truth and Justice, Religion and Piety, may be established
among us," and this meeting participating in this general feeling, arc
resolved to sustain her Majesty's Ministers in the arduous struggle in
which this subject has involved them, and which they can bring to a
triumphant issue only by an inflexible adherence to the principles they
avowed at its commencement ; by a resolute prosecution of the objcit,
without compromise and without delay ; rendering the Church what it
ought to be, efficient to all the purposes of its own support, and leaving
Dissenters, what they have ever been, the independent and voluntary
maintainers of their own buildings and worship.
Rev. J. HINTON in seconding the resolution, said that thequestion was
an agitating one. It agitated the Dissenters, and would do so until it
was settled. It agitated others.—(A laugh.) It agitated the Church,
which seemed not to desire for peace and quietness, and to take up the
phrase of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, " agitate, agitate,
agitate." But if the Church did not agitate it, the Dissenters must.
(Hear.) He regretted extremely that, in the words of the resolution,
the question was so long before Parliament ; and that it was
now brought forward so late. If the Society had not placed reliance
upon the Government to go spiritedly with the measure, there would
have been an uproar before now —(Hear and a laugh.) Could they even
now be sure that the qaestion would be vigorously and sincerely gone
into, and a strong and ample report produced by the Committee, and a
good measure proposed, they might be satisfied, though they might not
look forward to an immediate victory. It was true that lie had been
anxious to support the Ministry. He was now no less anxious to support
them, if they had not lent their countenance to the Hippodrome nui-
sance, and if they had taken a better course on the question of the
negro apprenticeshi
to give them up, as there were many other questions, for which their
P.—(Applause.) But he was not even now prepared
continuance in office was of vital importance, and on which he hoped
they would behave better than as yet they had behaved on the Church-
rate.—(Hear, hear.) There were great legal difficulties in levying a
Church rate ; and if these were made use of, the Dissenters would gain
their victory themselves.—(Hear, hear.) The Rev. Gentleman then
related an anecdote of a Dissenting Minister, whose goods were seized