The Sun.
London, England, 1822-06-04 00:00:00

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PRICE SEVI;NPENCE.

could make his arrangements for bringing forwatd his motion
to-morrow.

Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said that he could not:suffer
• any motion to take precedence of his motion, which!. in his
opinion at least, was one of paraniount importance.—(llsar I)
Mr. KENNEDY could not help expressing hiS
ment of the refusal of the Right lion. Gentleman. It yeas ndt
on his own account, but on account of the bearnect:Lora, that,
he asked for th e• accommodation. •

The question was then put, that the Report be now brought,.
up.
- 111r.-CALCRAFT said thaftbe proposition to remit 261.'0ut
of 301. per .ton of salt was received with satisfaction. But thdse'
who were now, for the first tithe, to pay 2s. per bushel could
not he satisfied with the arrangeMent. Those who were•enl.
gaged in the fisheries were now to be obliged to pay 2s. 'per'„,
bushel, Or. 41. per ton. Ile hid tlierefoie doubtS, •no decided
opinion, that the arrangement would be most injurious, to thi'S'
class of persons. The next-remonStrance.lie grad to Make Was'
in the name of the oxymuriate of lime manufacturers. Those-.
classes ought to have an opporthnitY Of statizlg the.bperati4ll-!-,
of
passedthet intouponaxa iei7
tll.
eir respective dekar.trents before: it si:modt:
be
The CHANCELLOR of theESCHEQUER said, that'asc
the new arrrangements would not have effect till the sth of
nuary, the next fisheries could not feel any inconveniente,''.-
Mr. D. GILBERT made some obseiVationi which-were.
understood-ft; refeete A- drawback on exported fish: •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER made'sorna.
remarks on Foreign and Home Curers of Fish, which we could
not hear, and was understood to assent to a drawirliCk. • •
Sir R. FERGUSSON stated that the barrel of herrings noir'
sold from 16s. to 18s. in the foreign market: If 2s. of a eii:x*
were' imposed on salt; this trade would-be destrbyticl,"-foritWo
bushels were required 'for the barrel in the horse rn'arkefi ;
three bushels for the Mediterranean land .-four bushels-for the
West Indies. Such a tax. Would CU tup -the liming afti
pilchard fisheries.
Mr.GRENFELL said, 'that the'Sanie it4niarks were:4.o/i-
-cable to Cornivall, and the. tax would =lie-fotintile amount to
155. per cent. ad•valore,th: : .
Sl'4olol NEWPtilit'.and ..Mr.:Ctinu`tg spoke:shortly...en
the subject. • • - • • .
Mr. HUME rose to submit his amendment to the Honig.
respecting the mode in which the Right lion. Gendarme -pro-.
posed to obtain a sum equal to the-tundunt'of taxes remitted.
The Right' Hom Gentleman .was acting one. thing; and pro-
fessing another. -The resolutiOu'of that Ilonst• had been for a
clgar.positive surplus of 5,0011;0001: The Right Hon. Gezttle-
man notv-borrowed 2,000,00017, and thus reduced his Surplirs
to •/1,000,0001. Why, then, •by such co:mg-tared. machinery
aired to.have a sinking fund of 5,000,0001., and depart
_from'
hii Own principle of a surplus ? The Right. Bon.' Gentlernan
had bUrrnwedilo;ooJ6oool. in five years at 61 or 62,and paid at
65 or 66 ;. so that- fife-whole of 5,000,0001: was abs-orbed bY the
operation. .He moved.,: therefore, an amendment which he
hoped the House wouldsUpport. If the. House should support'
the measure of tile Right Hon. Gentleman, experience would•
prove. that they supported. a •proposition as fallacious as that
which declared one pound andone shilling to be equivalent•to
a guinea. He moved that it- wasexpedient_ to take fronl the
Sinking Fund an annual sum equal to the relief' from taxittoti
required, instead of raising it by loan-or annnity.
Mr. GRENFELL said he did not understand whether the
effect of the amendment would be w put an extinguisher orithe
whole theasure.• Ile had before expressed -his opinion, ,that
when the suni in the hands of the commissioners was.Nual
the loan which might on any occasion be required,it would*:
beneficial that they should advance it. Holding that-Wit/On, ,
he yet would not hazard the advantages propoSed. by the•prat.
sent -measure, because the Commissioners did hot advance .the.
loan. If he.Coilld:not; hotvever,.(the Hon. Gentleman cop.-
tinued), get exactly what he wanted, he was willing; to *getithe
next good thing if he could; and he therefore Meant to Frcc.
pose the adoption of a clause precisely .siinirar in:words and Or.:
feet to that which, in the year 1786, had been so 'wisely intrch
duced by Mr. Fox--a clause not imperative uponthe Commis:-
sinners of the Sinking "Fund, but snaking it lawful .fnr.themtct
extend their dealings to annuities.: . . . .•
Mr: BROUGHAM said sliglg.alteration ;*0 words woijd
make the plan of the Right. ttpn: Gentleman_ and that of
Hon. Friend precisely the same. The Right ilin';,fleutlenAir
proposed two sets of Commissioners ; otte for reducing the ?-a-t
tional Debt and the other for increasing it. . Why not *ye the
trouble of bringing one set of them into ,existenee ? 'Thor
must. afterwards be pretty-well nurtured ;.:ai -tho'st public'. site-
fan ts required to be. At present here was a set ready- inadete,
their hands, grown up and in full niaturity-(4
were precisely of the same cast as that, of the set preposed4l%
bi.creoted. The present Commissionersiniglif sit.on She same
day anti at- the same place in- their united` capacity,. and inigiit
b@. empowered to deal in the stock. The, pjaufer double Ctzis
inissioners was a senseless 7; degrOdingmtnpmery; • and it;Wlsso
proposed just to-make it be:thought thit the Right Hon; Geri.
tleman was really not touching ,the'Sinking .Fund. It was'
clumsy,-absurd, and; complex, machinery,. calculated entirely'.
to delude the public; and he should therefore give the Amend.
merit his hearty support; as he should also the clause
tioned hi his Hon. Friend, should that House •reject the.
Amendment. •

Mr. T. WILSON said he had approveda the original plan.,
and should therefore vote against4he amendment
Col. DAVIES said the amendment went merely to put the
Sinking Fund in the sitnation of the present annuitants, and he,
phould therefore support the amendment. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEHQUER said he
should decline going over arguments which he, had offered be-
fore, and which had received the sanction 'of 'the House. The
present plan, he contended, was not at all inconsistent with the
principles he had stated on a former occasion. He should op.
pose the amendment
Mr. RICARDO said, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
was about to bring in a clause, to be inserted in his own
Bill, authorising these Commissioners to , deal with one an.
other.-4.A. laugh.)—The Right Honourable Gentleman had
told the House he was not so young a man' or so young in of-
fice as to bring forward a measure which he could not carry
into effect. The present measure had however failed in . the
first instance, and the Right Hon. Gentleman was no r.put to
his shifts. It was not improbable that, afi.er all, the Right
Hon. Gentleman would come down to the House, and honestly
confess that the five millions of Sinking rund was a delusioq.,
and that it was now reduced to three. He should vote for the
amendment. - - • •

..The Marquis of LONDONDERRY congratulated thy ,
House on the two jokes they had heard ; one from the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman (Mr. lkoughano, and the other fiori)
the Hon. Member for Portarlington.—(A laugh-Nothing
whatever in the shape of argument had been offered in support
of the amendment.—(Cheers from the Opposition.)--Something
Was said about the age'of his Honourable Friend ; but it had
not been shewn that his proposal partook of either infancy or
age. The difference Of expense to the public as to the second
set of Commissioners would be very trifling ; and if,,.theree
fore, nothing further were offered against.it, he considered the
plan of his Right Hon. Friend to be altogether untouched.:-7
The Amendment before the House went it.o restrict their opera?.
tions, and to force them to.borrow from the . Sinking Fund ;
whereas it was the object of the original, Resolution to enable
thOcontracting parties to deal with whatever Stock they migßt
think advantageous. The Annuity Stock might be what wa+4
termed a: heavy article on --the, market, and.therefeie it was
desirable that both sides should have- a certain discretionary
power with regard to it, that the Trustees and the Commission-
ers of the Sinking Fund might possess the full power of dealing
freely with .each other. It was for that reason that it would
be desirable that the Amenliment of the Hon. 'Member fqr
Pedryn (Mr. Grenfell) should be adopted. It was an error iii
the Sinking Fund Act not tc;have given that power to the Corq-
rnissioners ; and in adopting that Hon. Gentleman's amend-
ment, they would only be executing the spirit of the originl
measure.- The plan of his Right Hon. Friend was to place all
the parties in the best and most advantageous state. It gave
an additional purchaser to the one, and an additional article.to
the other, to go to market with. His Right Hon. Friend was
taunted with having brought forward a scheme upon false ex-
pectations ; he certainly had expected that if that House should
vote it, it would be accomplished; and he had also hoped to -
make it a national plan. When he broUght it forward he
knew of one great Company at leaSt, the. South Sei Company,
that was willing to contract, and be begged to say,, that, in
whatever \light that Company might be regarded, it was not
for want of funds that it bad faded in realizing the expect
tations Of his .Right Ilonourable Friend. Money enough
had been Subscribed, but other causes operated in inducing
them. to .reject, a participation in this plan. Excepting,
therefore, that the congratulations f3e .a former evening
been turned into a few jokes on the present occasion,Ae
had heard;; nothing that could induct. hilt .to acCede.:to
the propoaltion''of:...the. Honourable Meinber"!:foil
, .."