The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-09 00:00:00

PAPER DUTIES.
Mr. WALLACE presented a petition praying far an alte-
ration in the duties on paper. He hoped, after %%hat had fallen
a few evenings ago from the Chancellor of the Exchequc
on 'this subject, that some favourable change wool ,1 shortly

take place.
Dr. BOWR LNG presented a petition from Port Glasgow
on the same subject, and with a similar prayer.
COUNTY RATES.
Mr. GORDON presented a petition, mast respectably and
nume..ously tigned by the owners and occupiers of land in the
county of Stafford, praying_ for some alteration in the manage-
ment of comity rates. Under present circumstances he thought
some change desirable, and that the rate-pavers should have
a- share in the distribution of the money levied olf them.
They thought that the magistrates could not properly at.:
tend to the fiscal business of the country with a due regard
to their other duties. It was stated in the petition what
be (Mr. Gordon) could not agree with, that a proper
regard mg Lot had to economy in Staffirdshire, but he would-
limit that, in consequence of the erection of a gaol, and the
necessary repairs of several bridges, the rates were lately
higher than before. He sliould reserve any furth:r observa-
tio.)s on this subject till the motion of the Hon. Member for
Middlesex, which stood in the order list for this evening, was
before the House.
An HoN. MEMBER on the Ministerial benches made some
observatio -s, but in s ) low a tone as to be totally inaudible in
the Gallery.
Mr. H.UME said although the notice which he had given at
the commencement of the Session stood for this evening, rela-
ting to the establishment of Boards for the Management of
County Rates, yet he would not feel warranted in bringing
it forward, as he deemed it of importance that, the adjourned
debate on the Irish Corporate question should be allowed to
proceed, and be brought to a conclusion. - He would therefore
move, on Thursday, the 21st April, for leave to bring in a
Bill to enable the inhabitants of Middlesex to manage their
own affairs.—( Hear, hear.)
An HoN. Mamma expressed his concurrence in the objects
of the Bill referred to by the Hon. Member for Middlesex.
He thought the pe)lle were entitled to the management of
their own money.
:VICTUALLERS' LICENSES.

Mr. BAIreL AY presented a petition from the Licensed
Victuallers, complaining of the extra fifty per cent. which had
been imposed on Licenses.
STATE OF THE LAW IN SCOTLAND.

Doctor BO WRING presented two petitions, one on the
ate of the law of real property, and the other on the general
state of the law. The Commissioners prayed for an alteration in
the existing system. The Han. Member also presented a pe-
tition in favour of the reduction of the tax upon knowledge.
An HON. MEMBER moved that Mr. Crawford, the Mem-
ber for the city of London, be added to the London and
Brighton Railway Committee.
Mr. HUME begged to ask whether the Hon. Member bad
given notice of his motion ?
The question having been answered in the negative,
Mr. HUME protested against the name of any Member
being added without notice.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
Their Lordships requested to be furnished with a copy of
the evidence taken before the Committee on Orange Lodges.
—Agreed to.
MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND)...-
ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned Debate
on the Municipal Corporations (Ireland) having been read,
The SPEAKER then read the amendment moved by Lord
F. Egerton as an instruction to the Committee.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN would not have ventured to take
part in the present debate, if he had not felt that it was a ques-
tion of vital importance to the interests of Ireland, and that
it would tend to promote the peace and tranquillity of that
country, and the well-being and satisfaction of the community
at large. It was for these reasons that, as an Irish Member,
he was prepared to reject the amendment of the Noble
Lord—( Hear, hear)—and he was most anxious to point out
the consequences that would result from its adoption.
Although the present state of the Irish Corporations had been
fully illustrated by the Right Hon. the Attorney-General for
Ireland in the able and powerful speech in which he had moved
the second reading of the Bill, yet he (Mr. O'B.) felt it was
the duty of every Irish Member to confirm these statements
so far as lay in his power. He should, therefore, illustrate
the state of Limerick and Ennis, two of the Corporations with
which be was acquainted. The House was aware that Li-
merick was a great thriving commercial city, contain-
ing a population of 60,000, and the Corporation was
composed of a Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Coun-
cil, who had no sympathy with the people, and were
nominated by a Noble Lord, who did not even reside in
the country. He did not mean to speak of that Noble Lord
with any other feelings than those of respect ; bat it was well
known that he had alarge family interest in that city—that
he nominated all the members of the Corporation—and
that there was a tacit engagement entered into at the time
of their accepting office that they would, on all occasions,
support the views of the patron, and it was never known that
any one of them had said no to it. He appointed the mayor,
bailiffs, and all the other corporate officers, and there were va-
luable sinecures connected with the Corporation which were
of course given to Members of the Noble Lord's own
family.—(Hear, hear.) In Ennis, the Corporation had
a revenue of 5,0001., which they had used for the purpose of
defeating. the just claims of the inhabitants to the franchise
of freemen. The Corporation was an exclusive one,
and he believed there was not a single Catholic a mem-
ber of it_aad not only were they excluded, but
all the most respectable merchants of the town.—( Hear.)
In Limerick the patron of the borough had the appointment of
Town Grand Juries, in whom was vested the appro-
priation of assessments to the amount of 6,0001. a year.
The case of Limerick ought to be looked at, and as to Ennis,
there was no Municipal authority there. He hoped Government
was prepared to do all that was required upon the subject,
and would establish that principle which was dear to every
Englishman.—( Cheers.)
Mr. R. PLUNKET thought the statements put forth by
the Hon. Member were totally without foundation.—( Hear. )
The Hon. Member for Dublin, when ho returned to his native
country, as he (Mr. Plunkett) thought he would shortly have
occasion to do, could not have the satisfaction of stating, as he
told his hearers at the meeting which he last addressed
before leaving the Irish shores, that the destruction of
the Irish Corporations had been effected ; he could not con-
gratulate his hearers assembled round the bonfires to be illu-
minated on the occasion, and exhilirated, no doubt, by copious
libations of mountain dew, that the institutions of the country
were annihilated. With what feelings must the Protestant
subjects of his Majesty behold such assemblies of Ribbon-
men, who had not yet attained the rank of Members of
Parliament—( Hear, hear, hear)—as it was known some
Members of this House were connected with that illegal asso-
ciation.

~.....,....
Several Members here called the Hon. Gentleman to order,
and there were loud cries of " Name, name."
Mr. 11 UME said he roso to order. No Member had a right
to make an assertion to the effect that Members of that House
belonged to an illegal Association, without stating the names of
those to whom he alluded.
Mr. PL UNK ET said that the words he had used wire
that Honourable Members had been connected with Rib-
bon Associations ; and he also added, that he could riot
say that there were not now in the House Members connected
with it. The Hon. Member went on to state that he had received
a petition from the Corporation of Drogheda against the Bill.
As this petition was prepared and signed on the 19th February
it was clear that it could not have been suggested from that
side of the House. The Attorney. General for Ireland- had
made his accusation against the Corporation of Drogheda,
founded upon this Report. First, that they had improperly
disposed of the funds of the Corporation ; and next, that they
were an exclusive and sectarian body. Now, with respect to
the first of those charges, it was notorious, as the petitioners
stated, that the Attorney-General had greatly over rated the
value of the Corporation property, for he gave to the Corp-
ration the present value upon it, which, in point of fact, was
not received by them, but by those persons to whom the pro-
perty was let, and who had improved it. The whole of the
land belonging to the Corpoation was only 1,620 acres, and if
let at 31. an acre it would not produce the sum which the At-
torney-General had alleged to have been misapplied. As to
the misapplicatioa, it was totally denied. With respect to the
sectarian illiberality of the Corporation, it was best answered
by the fact that when Corporation property was to be: let or
otherwise disposed of, it was exposed to general competition,
without regard to who might become the purchaser, or to
what sect or religion he might belOng, except so far as
as they were restricted by the express terms of their char-
ter. They could act in no other way until the charter was
restored, and it was, therefore, most unfair in the Commis-
sioners to censure them on this ground. But he ought not,
perhaps, to feel much surprise upon this point, when he agcy
that this Commission was very differently constituted from all
others with which he was acquainted. The Commissioners
appointed for ascertaining the number of the Protestants and
the Roman Catholic population of Ireland were impartially
chosen. Some of them were Englishmen and some Irishmen,
all of whom were in every way qualified by their characters
and talents for the duties of the situation to which they had
been appointed. The Poor Law Commissioners also were
eery properly chosen, and all unobjectionable men; but he
regretted to say that he could not pronounce the same opinion
upon all the members of this Corporation Commission. The
principal, or at least the most active, of these Commissioners
was a Mr. Baldwin, who, for the most part, was left to do all
the business of the Commission, unaided and uninterrupted by
the attendance of the other Co:nmissioners, his colleagues.
He did not know if this Mr. Baldwin was the gentleman of
that name who represented the city of Cork, but, if so, he un-
derstood the Hon. Gentleman was more celebrated for making
speeches upon the power of 10-gun brigs to blockade Ireland than
or his information upon municipal rights, or Corporation in-
terests. He had risen solely for the purpose of putting before
the House his opinion, that it would be better in every point of
view to abolish the present Corporations altogether, than to
establish any other in their stead under the present Bill:
Mr. V. STUART said that, as this was his first time of
addressing the House, he had much need of its indulgence,
while he ventured to make a few observations upon the im-
portant measure now under consideration.—( Cheers.) He
owed a ebt of gratitude and thanks to his Majesty's
MinisteraiViiie rse they had pursued on the present oc-
casion. ForstiAj a ng introduced the Bill, calculated, as it
was, to give.- s-a,tisraaktur to the Irish people ; and next, for
their, uncompromising- position to the amendment of the
Nia)le Lord'oppositei Cheers.) Could any Hon. Member
4
fail ,to see that the.arne ment of the Noble Lord was nothinr.
0.14-6' than. a direct
.i:t' ma on the Catholics of Ireland?—
("Cheers.) 'He courd-tell the Noble Lord that if he felt for
Ireland and the Trial; people that interest which he had
professed the night, Wore in his speech he would have done
a raorai_hattar service to that country. and earned for him.