The Sun.
London, England, 1831-09-20 00:00:00

SPRING GUNS' BILL.

On the motion of Lord MELBOURNE, the fiotar
went into Committee on this Bill.

The Earl of CAERNARVON moved that spring gun.
might he placed upon lands with the permission of one
Magistrate, instead of requiring the permission of two
Magistrates in a Quarter Session, as the present terms of
the Bill required.
Lord MELBOURNE was understood not to object to
the proposed amendment.
Lord SUFFIELD observed that he had the honour to
introduce the Bill for making the setting of spring-guns
ill..gal, and that Bill had been debated three years before
it passed into a law. It was a proof of the strong opinion
he entertained o❑ this subject, when he consented even to
the partial re-introduction of the use of spring-guns; but
he did so with a view to check the offence of incendiarisin ;
and though he deeply regretted the existence of such a ne-
cessity, he felt he was bound to act upon it. He should
consent to the amendment.

The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed that the amend.
tnent should be adopted, especially with a view to secure
the object just mentioned by his Noble Friend. If there
vas a public permission to set spring-guns in certain
places, and in those places only, the depredators would be
warned to stay away front Bech places; but if they did
not know where to expect the spring-guns, they would be
more cautious where they ventured.
The ann ndment was agreed to and the House resumed.
The Charing-Cross Improvement Bill was read a first
time.

The Public Works' Bill went through a Committee.
Adjourned at Half-past Eigl,t.

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

Our columns record the proceedings of the Livery of
London yesterday, in refutation of the slander, so far as
they were affected by ir, that the people of England were
becoming indifferent to the cause of Reform. What
would the Anti-Reformers more ? The slander was a
pretence ; they did not believe it who uttered it,-.they
could not think so lightly of the firmness and resolution of
the people of England. But it is a slander that has not
been without its use ; it has been, and will be, more than
repelled by the generous ardour of those to tvl4-IGat such
caprice was imputed. Let the House cf Lords reflect that
the zeal of which they see a apecinien in reading through
the proceedings of the Livery is diffused through every free
h .som in the intelligent population of this country, and
then let them ask themselves what may be the effect of re•
sisting a feeling so universal: We du not appeal to their
fears. They might repel such an appeal in the con-
sciousness of their own courage and resolution. We appeal
to their reason, their humanity : they being but few in
comparison, cannot knoW better than all England what is
befitting for England. It must be painful to them to
disseminate sour discontent and disunion through the
country. The only growl,' alleged for resistance to the
measure was the new-sprung indifference of the people.
This ground is now wholly taken away : the whole natiun
is stirringly alive : the inference, therefore, is, obvious.
The Lords will pass the Bill, and the country will be in
unity with itself, and at peace.— Ti-,,;ea.

The fall of Warsaw, st the date assigned to it, was for
us (we confess our imperfect acquaintance with the lo-
calities) an event altogether unexpected. Hezzl, ;n London,
the strongest manifestations of sytrTathy with the Poles
have taken place. Grief, and indignation, and various
other fine feelings, have dizpiayed themselves at both ex-
tremities of the eaidtai, and it is mighty well and prodi-
viausly creditable to the sensibility of the " feelers." But
we should have had more respect fur them and their sen-
sations, had the latter been put into activity some conaths,
or even some weeks, sooner. There were but two mod.,
whereby the people of this country could effectually have
succoured the Poles. The first seas by compelling the
Government to take strenuot4a measures, in concurrence
with France, for *their safety from the attacks of Russia.
The second was by literal pecuniary subscriptions. Yet
how has either of these proofs of regard been ex-
emplified ? When Colonel Evans brought furveard
his motion, and when a second tive.e he int..o-
duced the subject indirectly. with a view to obtain
from his Majesty's Alinistere some indication of their
purposes.
or some st.4taatent of their acts already done,
having Polish independence for their object, he not only
in extracting a single syllable (Kau Lord Palmer-
ston, wh tiler in the form of (pinion or of narrative,
fir the satisraction of liberal minds, but he actually could
not prevail upon the Members of the Hon. Hour to Eaten
to his arguments, however forcible,—to his complaints,
how aver affecting,—or to his predictions, however mel,n-
choly,—so lit,le worthy of notice did the House of Com-
mons of England vinsider a question which involved the
fate of an illustrious people, the fame and Loriour of this
country, and the future eouilibritur, security, and repose
of Europe! Again, when it v.,aa over and over again re-
commended that inste;ii-.g's should be held and money
raised by voh,;r.tary contributions, or borrowed and re-
mitte;,4, to Warsaw, what did the gentlemen of the city
contribute,—they who now, as we hear, are as deeply
overwhelmed with sqrrow and compassion, ar.d all the
rest of it, as if rt.a.,,land " had a direct interost" in the mat-
ter? Why, do not these gentlemen know that England has
a direct,-- e, axed a vitalmierest in the question, whether
1 7

Russia shall or .hail not be aggrandized by a crime-
beaotttu dominion over 14,000,000 of .14-olett? The
...-Firnea has done its duty by inure th.,:,Q once pressing, in
terms the most earnest and tr.4,:nt that it could command,
a straightforward and v.reompromising interferenoe,—by
diplomacy in tb,,,-„iirst in.tance,—by other means if neces-
sary,,o-z behalf of Polish freedom. 'Thrice we have
.lone so ; and as friends of peact, and us the best and only
method of adjusting Europe upon pacific principla, we
have invoked, as solemnly as men convinced of the recti-
tude of :heir own motives and the soundness of their

jzzrigtnents could call, for any national measure, the inane,
diate, and if all nther; expedients failed, the forcible inter-
position of British power for the assurance cf. liberty to
Poland. Nor should we have interferp-i a!one; France
was ready, if England but held tlt her finger. It is not
bee.iuse the old Bonaparte `action have made most nclse
upon this interesting subject, with perhaps no batter pur-
pose than they had in recommending that '.4lelgium should
Ile s4itet),—it is not because they might have been as kna-
vish as they were importunate,--we are to imagine that the
French generally Wt". 76 not, and. are not still, hiss; anxious
co:l...lying-6 since have postponed every xecon-
for the ind.,:paidence of the Poles. We ore satisfied that
if the government of France lind been true to the national
sentiment of that groat rountry, or worthy of its own higlk
the conditions
and
means of a joint and pereatvrly prohibition of fur-
ther assaults upon Pokiel; i4dependence by the Russian
the
most
i.Theretnpir;..ainn.
i.t:eanc!i44affeteiettieintigonsneaetieopaf Sa-
turdayp
l'i!ett7';ootialdseltotleigment with England of
autocrat. But it I,s, ii/ita that the administration af Casi-
ve evet:
mir Fori:;,r 11.0 been'
unequal to any such hold, simple, and
editor of that journa!, and entitled,
,;,FatedEivt ,
el ati;sotoi, :a: 1
~ 1 e
---tad, communicated by the Polish
A Circular from the Governrnent at Warsaw to
its diplomatic agents in foreign countries," dated the 15th
of August. This paper was W 1 itten in evident contem-
plation of the cr4el occurrence which the last three days
have conveyed to us—the ultimate till of Warsaw. ' It
WCA written under feellogs of profound and just resent-

►•. a' tl.e unworthy treatment estiori..7-,1
les at the hands of 3lessrs. Casimir Perier and S- ebas-
t.t i. Their promises of active friendship to the patriots are
,erein detailed—their efforts to dissuade the Polish Go..
rninent from acting, under an assurance that their cause
teen taken up with c.irdial sympathy by France ant
E 'gland jointly,—and that if they could continue to hold
,tit. for a very short time, the independence of their country
..ould he secured. They did hold out far beyond the time
irefixed, and where is the promised "independence?" It is
grievous to us 'to state, that in this melancholy document
ire to be found allegations little less discreditable to :Inn-
-tier Government than to that of France. Far be it from
is to volunteer any wanton reflections upon the British
;linistry ; but our duty, though a painful one, must tie
ieeforined. If, therefore, Lord Grey and his colleagues
iiean to offer no defence against the charges,—amounting
lmost to tteacherY, but extending far beyond that of
eartlessness, as relates to Poland,—we must adin't, and
he country will agree with us, that the circular is a
lamning despatch. England is accused, in imprevari-
ating language, of having encouraged the Poles by as-
•iiranees of sympathy with their cause,—of having made
:ire of them for promoting the speedy settlement of
lie affairs of Belgium, as an immediate step towards
elgaglng seriou-ly in an effort on behalf of Polish fri.eclum,
ind of having to the last fed and stimulated those illusive.

'lopes of English interference, which united with thoic,

•
proceeding from France, hid restrained the Poles from

military enterprises which might have early interritp!ed,
perhaps defeated, the plans of Paskewitach. These are
tire iriful charges—we trust, nay, we are sure, they will lie
disproved.' But there is another 'charge which cannot be
bsproved either by the Government of France or that of
Britain ; it is that of having done nothing which became
my resolute or high-minded statesman, on this great occa-
'am, when the boldest po icy would manfestly have hen
the most provident and enlightened. Talk of mlintaininz
peace! Why, it is truly and powerfully stated by the
authors of the Warsaw " Circular," that it. wait the
Jorions but deserted Polish patriots who really shielded,
by their resistance to the Muscovites, the whole west of
Europe from war. It is affirmed that the tact is most
prob Ode that the insurrection of Warsaw, and nothing
else obtained for Louis Philippe the slow, repugnant, anti
angracious acknowledgement of Nicholas—that Belgic
freedom was recognized only because Poland was in arms.
tnd that the Russian troops which have been so long de-
tained, and flame to severely suffered on the Vistula, were
triginally in toll march for the Rhine! We can allow its full
merit to the brilliant, and we arc sure quite unaffected,
declamation of Lord Brougham, against the impoliey of
that Minister who would " plunge the British empire into
tsar." But the war alluded to by the learned Lord war
in unnecessary war—a wanton war—a, criminal war,—a
war for enabling the virtuous Miguel to commit wrongs
upon France with impunity. We take for granted that
Lord Brougham could not have condemned a war in self-
defence, or in that of Europe, agaicet the design!, of the
Russian Goverument, to pave a road iuto Germany with
Polish corpses, that it might give law at the bayonet's
point to all these western elates. We say again, that a
bold policy on the part of Francs and England wound have
established Polish independence, and ensured the continu-
ance of that peace which is now more precarious teen
perhaps at any filmier moment : but it is not the first
tine that male or female intriguers in the confidence of the
Russian Court have helped to weigh down the hopes and
better fortunes of humanity. At the same time, let it be
distinctly understood, that nothing wise, or noble, or ge-
nerous can be looked for from French interference, if it
he undertaken in the spirit of the Bonaparte faction,
whose master had often the destinies of Poland in his hand,
an as often selfishly and basely sold.them.—

The City of Dublin has been fit st in the field to pe-
tition the House of Lords to pass the Reform Bill. On
Friday last there was a meeting in the Circular Hall at the
Royal Exchange, numerously attended, with the Lord
flavor in the Chair. The report of the proceedings oc-
cupies five columns of the Dettlix Morning Register.
Many of the speeches were excellent, and the enthusiasm
in favour of the measure was overpowering. Yestetelay
was the fa-st great movement in this metropolis. Our
readers will find a report of the proceedings of the Livery
in another column. The first resolution was moved by
Mr, Dillon, of the house of Messrs. Monson and Cu.,
who made a powerful speech on the occasion, which lie
concluded by saltine—
" Would the enemies of Reform undertake for the peace of the
Country, the continuance of trade, the prosperity of conunerce.
or the stability of public credit ? He, as a tradesman, declared
tbe anotherpaid
if and a
the
Bill more w importanteywere
lo
t.
question
they would not be able to maintain one of these, if they refused
to pa s t haet.
Bill.-Cheers)ose. ld the e. But.x
(Loud cheer.) Who was to 13x and demand the taxes ? Would
the peon):, pay taxes levied by the sixty condemned representa-
lives eschedule A, or by the half-crippled representatives of
sucilreviitte%;h9it,'etyhnltsi?.ugyVictUernia:zsehaodf V:;;;;ZeZ, 1;11'
the chapel at Newgate, a condemned pew, to separate the con-
demned malefactors from the rest of the community.—(Continuer)
cheering and laughter.) They could net revive the dead ; and
were not Gatton, Boroughbridge, and Old Sarum dead ? The
lightning of corruption had extinguished them, and they could
bear neither freilt nor flower."
Mr. Williams, of Watling-street, who seconded the
first resolution, observed, that it had been asked What
will the Lords do ?' Ii their understandings were net
stricken with total blindness, they would pass the Bill ; if
they expected to enjoy their present wealth and honours,
they would pass the Bill, and that speedily, for, in the
present state of public anxiety, any great delay would throw
the whole country into confusion." Mr. Williams alluded
to the danger from forcing the people to view the Lords
as theie enemy—'• Let the Lords, toe, consider (Ise added)
rasa, would pay taxes if the Bill was not passed,—(Hear,
hear)—whra the House of Commons had declared itself,
as at present chosen, not representing the people of Eng-
land, All the authorities of our country stated, that obe-
dience to the laws was required of the people only because
they were present in the persons of their representaives
when the laws which taxed theta were passed." Let their
Lordship only ask themselves, how, in a country poseeseirtz
every where men equally well informei with the hest of
themselves, and far better able to give expression to their
views in clear and forcible language (for there are not a
dozen men in the House of Lords able to express themselves
as well as these tradesmen), they can hope to reconcile the
people to the usurp ttion by their Lordships of all the powers
of the Constitution? They should take a warning in time,
especially when they thus seethe attraction wlaice the non-
payment of taxes seems to have for the people. These are
most ominous allusions. Let the tilled paupers of the
nation bethink themselves of the homely proverb, that
" half a loaf is better then no bread." Colonel Terrens,
in thieving the petition, forcibly observed, " The borough-
' mongers tell us that we are about to perpetrate borough
robbery ; now let us consider that ; they say it is their
property to return a majority of the Members to the
House of Commons, New a majority of the House of
Coininiins has the power of taking money out of your
pockets, has the power of making laws which shall
affect your lives—therefore, it the power of returning
a inajerity to the House of Commons be the property
of the boroughutongers, then your lives and properties
also are tit* properties of the borimehmongers. Now
if their argument be worth a farthing, the people of
Lug/and are no better than negro slaves. Such insolence !
what time. they must be !' Mr. Charles Pear-on exposed.
tl e inconsistency of those who opposed the giving pledges
to constituenta on such a question as the Reform Bill, and
yet approved of Members of the other House residing in
France and Italy, systematically voting on anpuetent ques-
tions by proxy, without hearing the debate at all. His
explanation of the circumstances which oceasi Intel the
d eionfell of the Lords in the reign of Charles the First is
well deserving of the atten ion of the Peen of the present
day. From the result of yester‘y's proceedings, t ie Anti-
Reformers may see will what truth they presumed to libel
the people of England, as no longer anxious for the Re-
form Bill —.Menlo CAroniels.
We more than once stated that the reduction of Poland
would, in :ell probability, be the end of the reign of Louis
Philip; and we are much mistaken if the aspect of affairs
at Peels do not now lend to a change of Government. The
French are greatly incensed that the Poles, who, by
their rising, enabled them to give consistency to their
revolution, and place themselves on a footing of equality
with the military Powers, have been rather injured than
aided by the Government of Louis Philip. Tne rapers
are, however, unjust towards the Government. The French
and English could not have prevented the military opera-
tioze of Russia by anything short of a war ; and the
Poles tnust, in the long run, have been overpowered
without a warlike interventiop in their favour. We
need hardly observe that diplomacy is always unavailing
in matters of consequence. When the Holy Alliance
determined that the French should invade Sjiain to
put down the Constitution, the remonstrances of Eng-
land were Laughed to acorn, it having been well known
that England would proceed no farther than words. It is
aiteatlifrerent thing to send a fleet into the Scheldt or into
the Tagus, to bully small Powers, and to commit a :siedstitZ
tee a war with first-rate Powers. France
c°mlP"oland,
unpardonable fault of suffering the first partition.
of
ea
and the evil cannot now be remedied wiehouthaarti
since ter
war. tee or England, we grieve trne;saYf'ortobs either
Peace of Utrecht, all our wars
have ;try German quarrels.
disgraceful to us. as a nation„
"ntrPaour enormous debt of
We have not the eonsaletoietse
:reed in any such noble cause,
reflecting, that it has brew
fos'est blot on modern hiateen
as the prevent's,. 0-.
sof Poland. Wars against
A carry
the successive naxii4jenttAya been the only wars -4s, 4hic4,
in both lagaisiTheres

- ~

British valour has been displayed. The Peninsular war
was not an exception, for we aide] the Spaniards not for
their own sake, hut as a means finding emphlyment
the powerful enemy raised up by the wars of the Revolu-
tion, by whom we were so much threatened. ' It would
not surprise us if the indignation of the French should
produce a Continental war.—Morning Chronicle.
It is understood that, notwithstanding all that has yet
been said on the Reform Bill, its final step in the Coin.
mons will occupy some days, and the reasons assigned on
both sides, and particularly by eminent and rising men
anxious to display their talents on so great an occasion,
is that it is desirable to clear it of the clouds in which
the details of the Committee have enveloped it, and so
set it fully and fairly on its broad principles and merits
before the country. Having thus indicated the course
about to be pursued, we think it not inexpedient, as a
part of the Press, to offer a few remarks of our own
on the crisis at which the Bill has now arrived. That
it will pass the Commons, by a ;very great majority, is
evident, and the eyes of the nation have naturally turned
to what will probably be the proceedings with regard to
it in the House of Lords. Upon this matter we offered
a few observations in that tone of moderation and inde-
pendence which we know to
tie most acceptable to the vast
majority of the people, and in that spirit of calm examina-
tion which is due to everyimportant constitutional question.
The same attachment to the cause of Reform, the same sense
of right, and the same feeling of what is patriotic, dictate•
the ensuing suggestions in continuation of our argument.
le disapproving, as we have done, of the inflamma-
tory appeals so unnecessarily made to the dangerous
passions of the multitude, we have objected to them as
injurious to a good cause, as needless to a strong cause,
and as disgraceful to a triumphant cause. Our opinions
are too liberal, or, if we may use the almost synonymous
word, too popular, to lead us to condemn a reference to
the sentiments of the people; but it is because we consider
the vox popidi to he indeed the vox Dei, that we blame a
ten frequent and continual recurrence to that tremendous
tirade. Nec Deus lateral! is as just in politics as in
poetry. When the magnitude of the circumstances re-
quires it, it may be well to refresh our energies by a resort
to the mighty fountain of power ; but to be dabbling in
and stirring up its waters at every insignificant turn or
even doubtful aspect of affairs is agitating and perilous in
the extreme. This is the work of demagogues, not the
operation of steady and consistent patriots. Weakness is
brawling and noisy ; conscious strength goes soberly and
quietly to the accomplishment of its purposes, using no
more force than the case demands. On these considera-
tions we could have wished to see the Reform Bill pro-
ceed calmly and constitutionally to its completion. The
general election, and the hundreds of meetings all over the
country about that period, gave evidence of the feeling en-
tertained towards it ; and we do not think that a suspicion
of disfavour in the House of Peers is sufficient cause to
demand a renewal of the extraordinary excitement. And
one main reason why we are against this course is, that it
may place the friends of Reform in a disadvantageous po-
sition. Suppose, for instance, what is very likely, that
apprehending nod .nger to the measure, the advocates of
Reform are slack in meeting, and that nothing like the
former enthusiasm is revived. Only see what an argu-
ment this will furnish to their adversaries—to those who
declare that the country has cooled upon the question.
Yet such is the situation into which the indiscretion, or,
we almost suspect, secret hostility of pretended Reformers
has ;:iready plunged us. A preposterous error, upon
which this wrecking doctrine 49 been upheld, seems to
be the considering the Aristocracy as a separate body, and
not as a portion of the people. Are we prepared to say
that the Aristocracy (a few hundred men!) are opposed
to the people, eighteen millions ! ! They either pertain to
the people, or they should cease to he; or they should
have a country to themselves. The contrary is the
truth. As there must ever he inequalities in the lot of
man—for if there were not natural and ircesistible
causes by which a certain number are raised to authee
rity (such as hereditary descent, accompanied by property,
the exercise of talent, superior industry, &c,) mankind
would choose some of their fellows to manage their affairs.
just es we choose Stewards, Directors, Committees,
In minor concerns—a well constituted and enlightened
Peerage must be esteemed a ereat benefit to a country.
Such is the British Peerage, and every Constitutional Eng-
lishman desires to see tbem conscb-ntiously and honestly
perform their duty upon the Reform Bill. We have no
fear whatever of the consequence ; and we look upon the
violent threats and abuse lavished upon thia estate of the
realm to he only calculated to produce evil, by provoking a
resistance of opinion, which would not otherwise be enter-- i
tamed. What man, or what association of men, can be
expected to act in the wisest, most prudent and most im-
partial manner, under the influence of scoffs and raenee- ?
ft is unworthy of Britons to employ; and of Britons,
wlerher Peer. or Commoners, to he swayed by such base
means. We declare we ehetiiii he ashamed „to Hetorm ob-
tained by bullying on one band, and sacrifices extorted by
cowardly fears on the other. These are not English
characteristics ; these are not solid and just foundations on
which to build a great healing act of legislation. Our
conclusion then comes to this—we are confident of victory,
and we would achieve that victory by constitutional
means. We have no Apprehensions at all as to what the
Lords will do ; and so long as they are a part of the Con-
stitution, we think it is due to them to allow them fair
deliberation and an open line of conduct. To endeavour
to extend tumult and excite disorder over the land, when
no adequate cause exists for calling the people together
from their useful labours and evocations, s, in our judg-
ment, most en otieous and vicious. It tends to lessen the
real weight of the people when that weight ought to be
thrown into the scale, which is only upon occasions of the
most high and urgent necessity. Why should we move a
park of artillery to do that which a pocket-piers! can
effect? 'We have heretofore shown that the discussion in
the Lords, moving pari passu with the discussion of the
Scots and Irish Bills in the Commons, would create no
delay ; and it is because we cordially advocate Reform
that we do not desire to gag the Peers by revolutionary
woremente.—Morning Herald.

FRENCH PAPERS.

CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES', &rt. 17.

The Chamber appears agitated. Various reports cir-
culate among ti•e Deputies. Numerous assemblages are
spoken of, and it is said a mob has proceeded to Neuilly
to demand the dismissal of M. Sebastiani.

The business began by M. Salverti complaining that in
drawing up the minutes, the order of the day bad been
changed, so that the development of M. de Brecqueville's
motion on the family of Charles X. was indicated as
coming on after the discussion of sanatery regulations.—
The cholera. M. Salverte observed, certainly ought to
rlaitn attention, but Carlism is es; a disease, and the worst
of the two. lie concludes. by moving that the minutes
should he altered by placing M. Brecqueville's notion be•
for that on the sanatory laws.

A Member said that they had been told they were me-
naced by two evils—cholera and Carlism ; hut lie thought
there was a third, not less serious, which was in action
that moment,—let; meant tumult.
This remark called forth the same expression of disap-
probation ; but after a short discussion, the order of the
day was altered in the way proposed by M. Salverte.
The Chamber, not being in sufficient number to proceed
to be order of the day on the question respecting the rank
of the officers of the hundred days, heard for some time re-
ports on petitions. At last the debate on M. Boissy d'An-
glas's proposition was resumed.
M Jsubert, the Reporter of the Committee, proposed
an article which he considered necessary in connection
with that adopted yesterday.
Some confusion arose in consequence of the President
i‘avir,g bast ly declared that the article was agreed to.
This declaration was contested, and in consequence of the
demand of the majority of the Chamber, the article was
again submitted to discussion, While this desultory de
bate was going on, M. Perier and General Sebastiani
entered and took their places. Thei► entrance was soon
followed by that of their colleagues. The physiognomy
of General Sebastiani had lost none of its habitual as-
surance. lie chatted and took snuff with a member of
the centre right. Perier, who appeared sorrowful,
conversed with the Keeper of the Seals.
In the course of the debate M. Mauguin and Genera!
Sebastiani spoke on the article in question, which having
been divided into two parts, the Speaker put the question
on the first part. It is thus conceived—." The officers of
the hundred days, not yet replaced in their rank, shall re-
ceive new commissions on proving their title to the same."