The Sun.
London, England, 1825-02-05 00:00:00

IRISH SPIRITS.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT moved for sundry returns relative
to the number of gallons of Spirits, from Corn, distilled in Ire-
land. from the sth of July, 1790, to the sth of January, 1843;
the total amount of duty paid each year on such spirits; tk..e
number of gallons exported each year, and to what places ex-
purted.—Ordered.
COUNTY COURTS' BILL.

Lord AL'rHORY rose to give not;ce that on Tuesday next
he Ftiould move for leave to bring in a • Bill for facilitating the
fteco,:ery of Small Debts.
WINDOW TAX.

Mr. PAYNE presented a petition from the Parish of St.
(lenient, Oxford, praying a Repeal of the Window Tax.—
Read and laid on the table.
EQUITABLE LOAN BANK.
Mr. BROODEN presented a petition from the Equitable
Loan Bank Company, praying for leave to bring in a 13i11.
Read and laid on the table.
EXPORTS AND IMPORTS.
Mr. ORENFELI, moved for sundry returns of the value of
British and Irish Manufactured Produce, and of Colonial Pro-
duce exported for each of the last three years - and also for re-
turns of the quantity of Copper imported aniexported for the
same period.—Ordered.
LANDLORDS AND TENANTS.
Sir li. PA ItNELI, rose to give notice that on the lhth be
should move for leave to bring in a Bill relative to Landlords
and Tenants in Ireland. •
COUNTY RATES.

that on. Sir JOH N NEWPORT rose Co gist notice, Thurs.

PRICE SEVF,NP.ENCg.

day next he should move for leave to bring in a Bill relative
to the County Rates in Ireland.
PRIVATE, BILLS.
TheSPEAKER, in reading the usual Orders of theSesiiotk,
stated that no Private Petition would be received after the.fii:h
day of March ; that no Private Bill could be introduced after
the 21st• of March, nor any Report on a -Private Bill. received
after the 30th of May.
CORN LAWS.
Mr. WHITMORE rose to give notice, that on the tat of
March he should submit a Motion to the tiouae fbrthe amend
nient of the present Corn Laws.

LAND TAX.
Mr. HUME moved for sundry returns rehative. to the Land,
Tax, for the years 1822, 23, and 24.—Ordered. .
TREATY WITH DENMARK- • en
Mr. Secretary CANNING appeared at the bar with the Ph.
pers relative to the Commercial Contention lately entered de
between his Majesty and the King of Denmark.—Brought u?.
ordered to be laid on the table and printed.
ASSESSED iN AXES..
Mr. MABERLY rose to give eletice, that at an early day les
should move a repeal of the Assessed Taxes.. ..
REPORT-ON THE ADDRESS, -
Lord F. W. LEVESON GOWER appeaeed, of the has
with the report-of the Committee appointed to cizaw up the-A1-
dress to his Majesty.
On the question that it be brought up, •
Mr. HOBHOUSE said he could not allow the Addreee to
be brought up without availing himself of the opportunityeo
offer some observation to the Ifouee. It had so long been
practice to consider the adoption of the Address iii answer to
his Majesty's Speech as a. mere matter of form, and that
Member, in allowing it to- pass was pledged as to-the vote
he should subsequently give on any subject therein ern.
braced, that he (Mr. Hobhouse) should think it unnecessary
to trouble the House -at present, were there not matters of ti:'
utmost importance introduced into the Address of last night.
He was sure, indeed, that there were very few Gentlemen ue
his side of the House who would not have thought it their duty
to enter their solemn protest against that Address, had they lit
time been aware of its nature. For his own part, so far as
he had read or heard respecting similar Addresses, none had
ever deserved more severe animadversion than the present.—
In the very able and eloquent speech of his Hon. and Learned
Friend (Mr. Brougham), last night, he (Mr. Hobhouse) core-
ceived that several topics of the greatest moment had been Left
pntouched, and that many topics which had only been cursorily
noticed, were still deserving of the deepest attention. Hie
Majesty's Ministers, in the Speech front the Throne, declared
the country to be in a state of the utmost tranquillity and
prosperity, and that relations of perfect amity subsisted be.
tween Great Britain and Foreign Powers. Now he would
call upon the House to say, whether the measures proposed
in that Speech were accordant with such flattering promises.
If that Speech and the Address which echoed it were to be
believed, when was Ireland in the mme peaceful and fiou-
riehing state as now ; and yet the first thing proposed is a
change in the Penal Code of that country—he might even say
of this country striking at the dearest rights of the subject.. •
Could any thing be more calculated to excite the suspicions of
Foreign Powers. if these suspicions were el: any censequence,
ter if the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. C.) were afraid of
tech suspicions (Which he, Air. H., did net believe to be the
case) than the measures now recommeroled tt, Parliament
• What more could the P.ight Honourable Secretary have done
if Ireland were ready to burst into open rebellion. and the Holy ,
Alliance were marching against us 's I; was therefore itupossi-
tele that he could concur in the nee:trees, arid he should have
expressed his disapprobation of it last night.. if the Ilouse, after
the eloquent speech of the Right Hvnourable Secretarn• for
Foreign Affairs lied :tot manifested a wish to separate. - Many
parts of that Speech, however, were rooms E:perioUS than solid.
The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that the Catholic Association
wet opposed to the interests of the Catholics, and could only be
supported by their enemies. .But if eo, who ie Ireland among
the Catholics were the dissentients ? He (Mr. /1.) heard of no
'dissentients ; but on the contrary, that the , Catholics were un-
at-dinette in upholding that body. Ile lied asked- the Right
Hon. Secretary last night. and he repeated the nneetion tonliy;
if the Association did not speak the semi:nem, and represent
the feelings of the whole Catholic population of the Sister
Country ? Was the Right Honourable Gentleman's word on
that subject to• be taken in preference to the proofs of an'op- •
posite nature daily before the public? ‘Vould the Right •
Honourable and. Learned Gentleman Mr. Plunkett) on whom
his Honourable and Learned Friend thin Lrougham) last
night eulogized so highly, say that the Association did not
embody the sense of the petiole at large? And by, the way,
with respect to that Right llonourable and Learned Gentle-
man, whatever his talents, he would beg to observe, that mete •
in his opinion, ought to be judged by their acts, and not- by
their public reputation for parts.--(Htar, hear !)—lt was in'
vain to talk of person's talents, when ti eir whole conduct seem-
ed to be under the curse of folly. The Right Honourable Gen-
st, man r ever took up any thing which did not fail, uor did
he ere: take up with any party which was not glad to get rid
•of hint. But to return ; so far from the Association not truly
representing the Catholics of Ireland, their opinions, wishes.,
and feelings—if the public Journals were to be believed, no- -
thing could be more harmonious and universal than the agree-
ment b tween the two. Nay, it not only represented the •
Catholics of Ireland, but those of England ; for at the most
numerous meeting• of English Catholics ever assembled, their
thanks end approbation were voted to that body. It was cer-
tainly one thing to say thet the Association did not represent
the Catholics, and anotler to say that in ti e Right Hon.- Secre.
tary's mind it ought not to represent them. But it would take
more then mere assertion to convince him (Mr. Hobhouse) in •
opposition to facts. If the Associaion d d not represent the
I Cattle lies why meddle with it, aid yet uch were the appre- •
hensions inspired by men who were declared to possess no
influence, that in his Majesty's Speech an early and immediate
resort to means fur putting them down is recommended !
Front all lie (Mr. 11.) had heard or could collect, the Cotten- •
lies of Ireland were never so united and so zealous in their -
unanimity as at present, and that was what terrified the Right
Hon. Secretary opposite—( Hear, bear !)--or at least some ofhis
fricnds and cc-adjutcos —(Hear! ).--;So far from the Catholic
Association being as it was described, an incubus pressing "
down the energies of the people, he (Mr. Hobhouse) believed
the Catholics were never before moved or suspected to the
came degree of activity. They had at last shown an intention
to sink their petty differences, and they thus struck terror
into their enemies. The Association, however, had been called -
an imperiunt ;n impeeki, but were it so, even that could not ob- •
tain his (Mr. H.'s) unqualified sanction to the report of the As-
these being allowed to pass without observation. How .lopg had
they not to endure Orange Lodges and many other Assoc.ia
lions, some of the latter of which had not only been praised, •
but sepported by these who would now pus down the Catholics.
lie for one thought, should the measure proposed be adePted,e
that by such a penal enactment a dangerous inroad would be
made on the Constitution and on the liberty of thesubject. He
now came to another topic in the Address, which hail not le el '
touched en at all last night. He meant the augmentation in h
army, in consequence of the Burmese encroachments upon the
territory of the East India Company. It was certainly a
modest request of the Gentlemen of Leatieuhall-street, that
to protect their empire theostanding army of Emaglaud should
be increased ; and the whelk excuse for that increase, stated ilk -
the Speech Irwin the 'throne, was the situation of India, and'',
" ether circumstances" connected with our Feieign posses-
sions. Ile really must beg some explanation of what those •
circumstances were, for the Noble Lord, who so. eloquently
opened the discussion last night, left the matter nearly as •much
in the dark as he tbund it. That Noble Lord however had said,
that the increase of the military eetablishment was not in con-
sequence
ff-)
of the state of Ireland, .but alluded to some.posser-
sions not very distant from the Mediterranean; and hotihir.supposed this had reference to the great struggle. now-Rena:it'.
between the Turks and Greeks. No doubt it . would
,enough
- •
man opposite (Mr. Canning) deemed himeelf triPertls cause
utmost and most general satisfaction,
in the Cabinet, or opt of it, to interpose in .the Von
(Mt.' Hobhouse)
• ' •
of Greece—of civilization and freedom. seeh
had last year admitted that many. ditScultie_tas,.7eoccurred
O proceeding, but since that time evente
red, to 'bine that 'much
altered that opinion. At present it ajtiapheee
r ly withenceess on ' might be urged with reason,
and P en: and Wands of Greece
• the-
Ottoman 'Porte respecting the
Continer
the ; Right. !Honteurable s-
if the,Right floang;entiv' eentle-
and
Quo
inigiand eetuld Occur than the. .
whaseato Empireas. httlwark .t 0
GwhoiCilhemwaei."l.oo'nokwea. fretoe.;the
our Eastern •teer4o,l7, nothing moreherviceablie, to the
-,,e,tewtdenee. It was ,vain, however;
recognition of Grecnuni
with these hopes, ant the should
he feared. to Witter himself
wan", pointed out foe the additional •
ttitinotheittf -$1;4" destinations
n
' force. The Noble lord w. 9 . rem the Address. men-.._
interest ofthat.Gov
military •- of strengthening the • •
boned the necessity se g army in Canada ; and
• non ernOmT .nrit.or of.

C'tlr. Hobhouse) had certainly hear.l that one of the indi-
viduals who now aspired to the Presidency of the United States
was so hostile to England, that Canada might require to be
strengthened. Ile was at the same time ignorant whether that
were the fact or not—although such ignorance was not his
fault, but the fault of Ministers, who had not afforded adequate
information to the public. No one indeed seemed to know
why the augmentation took place, nor whether it was owing in
any degree to the new line of policy which had been adopted by
this country towards the Holy Alliance, yet the people of
England had a right to know the reason of such a vast addi-
tion to our present military force. We had now a regular army
of 73.000 men—a body of troops which, twenty years back,
'would have alarmed all the constitutional jealousy. of the
nation, and to that number of military a further addition was
to he made of,
:some said 10, some 15, and some 20,000 men.
The inure, before it emitted or approved "of such a mea-
were had a right to ask the purposes to which the troops
were distineer and it also had a right to a categorical answer to
the qnestioh. Was it on account of the occupation of Spain
by the French troops that the augmentation took place ? And
here heconld not -help saying that he was absolutely astound-
ed not to'fitel the least notice of that occupation of a neutral
country in his .Majesty's Speech. Parliament had a right to
know why the occupation was allowed to, continue, or was it
that account that the army was to be augmented. We had
suffered one of onr Allies, (Italy) however, to be overrun by
the troops of another of our Allies, and no increase followed
that proceeding. We allowed another Ally, Spain, to be
overrun in the same way, and still there was no talk of in-
creasing the military establishment. But now, because the
,Iturman Empire attacked the East India Company, a large
'augmentation was to be the consequence. Another topic to
which he must advert before concluding. He should beg to
esk the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer,, what
the expences were to be of this augmentation, although it was
not to the pay of the army, but to the army itself that he (Mr.
HobhouSe) objected. Year after year the Chancellor of the
Exchequer told the House that taxes wonla be reduced, and
when the Right Honourable Gentleman did produce his. plan
- it was to be boped that in redeeming his pledge he would take
• off first of all some of the direct taxes. Much as he (Mr. Hob-
house)
approved of a liberal system of commercial policy, lie
was anxious that the working classes should be relieved from
those charges which pressed immediately upon their comfort.—
If a hen all tie people were in easy circumstances, the restraint
on rade. could. be effectually removed, no measure was more to
-be desired. But at present the first thing to inquire was, why
the public burdens were to be increased. Having trespassed so
long on the House, he should not object to the report being
trought up. At the same time he did rot concur in any part of
it, but in that which rela`ed to the improvement in the revenue
of the country, to the improvement of the great interests of the
ration, and to the improvement of his Majesty's Ministers.—
(4%, laugh.)
Mr. t4RESSETT PELTIAM said a few words, which were
inaudible in the Gallery. 'We understood him to' say, that in
allowing the Address to pass, he reserved the right of freely
canvassing the future measures to which it alluded when they
sane before Parliament.
The CI4ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed,
that at the very moment that the Hon. Member for Westmin-
an r had made his appeal and put his question to him, he had
f. rnisheil him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) with the an-
sisw which it would be his duty to give. The Hon. Member
had said that it had now been the practice for many years to
frame his Majesty's speech, and also the reply to it, in such a
manner as not to involve the House in any specific pledge as to
the course of measures it might subsequently pursue. If such
were the case, was it not a little inconsistent in the lion. Gen-
tleman to call upon Ministers to explain in detail the proposi-
tions which they intended to submit to Parliament, and also
the reasons on which those propositions were founded? The
Hon. Member had stated that he hail no &Mtn but that he (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) would be ready, when he brought
is his budget, to state the reasons why he conceived this aug-
mentation of the army neceseary, and also the measures where-
by he intended•to provide for the payment of it, and to effect
a further diminution of taxation.. It would be his duty at an
early day to take the course which the Hon. Member had
pointed out; and he should then certainly enter into the amplest
'details of the propositions he intended to submit to the House.
aright, indeed, be more convenient to the Honourable Mem-
ber. for him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) to explain his
me Juan on the present occasion ; but he was sure that the !
I-louse would see very many reasons why it would be highly
absurd for him to do so. He should therefore postpone his
exp!aoation to a future day; at present lie would merely ob-
serve, that though the augmentation of the army seemed to
him absolutely necessary, he should be able to accompany it'
with a reduction of taxation which he trusted would appear to
be founded on sound principles, and to be generally acceptable
to the- country. He was glad to have this annunciation to
wake to Parliament, because he had been told, in the course of
the last session, that the reductions which he had made at that
time left to the public a blank and dreary prospect for the fu-
tare. He had not then ventured upon any prognostics; but
he felt at the time a strong presentiment in his own mind, that
at ti .e commencement of the present session he should be enable
to persevere in the course on which he had entered; and he now
had the heartfelt satisfaction of stating to the House that that
pia sentiment had been fully realized. The whole burden of 1
We speech which the Hon. Member for Westminster had just
wade was contained in these words—" What are the grounds
as which you, the Ministers, call upon the House to sanction
tla s increase of the army ?" The lion. Memb-r, in putting
that question, had alluded to what had fallen last night from
the Noble Mover of the Address, —namely, that there was no-
thing in the state of Ireland to require an increase of our mili-
tary establishment. His Majesty's Government did not pre-
tend to say that there was any thing in Ireland which required
the presence of an additional soldier. The same was also the
ease in England. Indeed, His Majesty's speech distinctly
stated, that the augmentation of the army had reference, not to
the internal, but to the external circurnshincee of the country.
'the Honourable Member had also treated the Burmese war
as a matter of great indifference : and that was not gar/raising,
considering that most people treated with indifference a distant
thinger. The Honourable Member had also said, that he knew
nothing of the Ilurman empire, except its geographical situa-
oon ; but for all that, it might be a very formidable power,
tspd calcutated to inflict ne smell detriment upon our posses-
-114 11$ in India. Arvy man who co usidered the peculiar na-
ture of our empire in India, and how it had arisen, almost
sat spite of its rulers, into its present extent and magni-
tude, would see that whatever tended to disturb the tran-
quillity of any part of it. might produce, and indeed was cal-
culated to produce effects much more important than any which
would enter into the imagination of a mere casual observer, or
of one who only knew the Burman empire by mere hearsay. It
would be time enough for hint to enter into some explana-
tion of the nature of the Burrnese power, when the matter
was regularly brought before the House; and he had
doubt that whenever it was so brought before it, he
should be able to convince it that this increase of the army was
diztated by sound policy, and was not liable to the objections
which Om Honourable Member for \Westminster had urged
against it ; for it was not an increase madein time of profound .
peace, buten increase made in time of active war. With re-
gard to the words, " our other foreign possessions," he refer-
red him to the tioie of the debate for information of the details
regarding them, which his Right Honourable Friend would at
that time willingly afford. He could not conceive how the Ho-
nourable Member, who generally looked abroad with a philo-
sophic eye, could look at our foreign possessions without seeing
hssw widely different their present state wa.s from their state
t eenty years ago. The establishment which defended them'
twenty years ago was utterly inade9uate to their present de-
fence, so great had been the change in their relative situations
to each other; wed also in every thing which surroundej. them.
—ln England, in case of any sudden danger, the ministers
could call upon the people to support the Government with its
resources ; and if the call was just, it was certain to be success..
tut ; but in our foreign pos.sesehens, which were widely scat-
tered over the face of the earth and of the water, those re-
sources could not be immediately called into action, and it
would be therefore unwise to leave them exposed to all the dan-
gers of sudden invasion. These were the general grounds,
wjthout entering further into their details, on which he thought
that it would ist-streeteefhtly argil ed that there "were just causes'
for increasing the army. He expected, however, that the Hon.
Gentleman, if he took his information of the extent of that in-
crease. from the sources which were to be open to the public,
would be greatly disappointed when learned what that in-
crease was really to be. The Right Hon. Gentleman then sat
down amid considerable cheering.
Colonel PALMER said, that notwithstanding the speeches
he had heard upon the Address, he rose with exactly the sante
feelings which he had stated to the House when last he von-
tared to address it, and which he must still avow, in the face
a all the praises which had since been showered upon the
hiovernment, and especially upon the Right lion. Gentleman,
who had been declared to be its brightest ornament, and the
object of the esteem and admiration of all. parties. For, if such
praises had been merited, his own opinions were as unjust
and illiberal, and lie owed it to ' the Right Honourable
Gentleman, his colleagues, and himself, to defend the lan-
guage he had held, or to acknowledge his error. And,
lint, as to -the Right Honourable Gentleman : what had been
the ground of the unqualified applause- bestowed upon him
in the last Session by Hon. and Learned Friends, whose
talents and political integrity had given the greater weight to
their opinion. The Right nohow-Me Gentleman was said
to have done himself the greatest honour by the way in which
be had-spoken of a Gallant Member of the House, because
his language had been a severe rebuke to the Governments
who had endeavoured to degrade that gallant individual • but
.if the Right Ilan. Gentleman's language had been a rebuke to

other Governments, how much greater to his own, who, in the
very instance, had set the others the example ; nor could he
help telling the Right Hon.. Gentleman, as he had told him in
the case of her late Majesty, that as a Minister, he would have
acted more consistently by the Crown, and by his colleagues,
as well as by the interests of the parties, in &lending them in
the Cabinet rather than in that House, and by making the atop-
don of his opinions there, the condition of his holding office.
Where then in this had been the great merit of the RighnHon.
Gentleman, or wliit the real difference betwixt his colleagues
and himself, but that others had acted openly, whilst he would
conceal his conduct ; for as Foreign Minister he had stood fore-
most in the Cabinet, the betrayer of - his country; whilst, like
Judas, he denied it to the people, and had thought to screen
himself by dining with a radical Lord Mayor, or by his bril-
liant speeches, which like brilliant tricks were most admired
when least understood. If he had misrepresented the Right
Hon. Gentleman he hoped to be set right, for nothing could be
. further from his intention, .nor more painful to himself, than
' the personal attacks which public duty had compelled him to
make; but considering the Right Hon. Gentleman as Mini-
ster, the enemy of his country, the greater his talents and po-
pularity the more dangerous he was, anti the more necessary to
grapple with, and endeavour to unmask him in the nation. As
an actor on the political stage the Right lion. Gentleman stood
unrivalled, both as to the variety of parts he could assume, and
his excellence in each• But the merit of an actor was no merit
in a Minister; for he should appear but in one character, and
that so fair and open to leave no room to hang a doubt upon ;
whilst that of the Right Hon. Gentleman was neither to be
kind in his conduct nor hit speeches, wherein he always
charmed his hearers, and brought down thunders of applause,
but as to his real policy, contrived to keep them in the dark.
What stronger instance than his late speech, wherein he boasted
of the applause of the whole nation, to the very echo which
applauds again, whilst lie deplored her immorality, and taxed
her with being ready to assist Ferdinand to strangle infant li-
berty in Spain. And who, but himself could understand his
meaning ? Whether as the friend of liberty, to exclaim against
the baseness of his country, or only as the greater.rogue, to cry
oat first, and reproach the majorities of the House in like manner
but in less homely terms than were said to have been used by a
certain kitchen article when abusing its companion on the tire.
'rise conduct of his opponents in the Cabinet was at least open
and intelligible, and in fact more wise; they saw the folly of
his half measures, and the necessity of either abandoning their
system, or of joining despotism to support it; in the mean-
time, betwixt the stools of their contention, Spain had fallen to
the ground ; and England, without a change of measures,must
fall at last. Never yet did she stand so degraded and despised
' in the eyes of Europe anti the world as under her present
. Government, composed of parties openly professing opposite
principles, whose mutual jealousy and hatred were notorious
to the whole country, 'and who iiterally agreed in, nothing but
to keep in place at the expence of their own honour and con-
sistency. A Ministry, of whom one half were endeavouring
to destroy the press, whilst the other encouraged hgr de-
fenders ; who, for instance, had so boldly contended for the
freedom of religious discussion, and so loudly condemned
the Government prosecutions for libels, as the late 3lem-
ber for Portarlington ? whose loss was deplored in the
last Session by the Liberals of the Treasury Bench, as
of one of the most enlightened and valuable Members of
the House; whilst the Secretary of the Home Department
declared his feelings upon the subject, by rejecting the prayer
of a wretched petitioner who had suffered nearly four
years imprisonment for a libel not half so dangerous to the
system of the Gbvernment as the last motion and speech of the
late lamented Member. Or what had been the guilt of this
offender compared with the author of a late political history of
Ireland, which, at the present alarming crisis of that country,
should be read by all who wished for real information upon the
subject. He remembered at the close of a former Session meet-
ing-a party of the Cabinet at the Caledonian Chapel, where a
popular preacher concluded one of his orations with earnestly
exhorting the Ministers present to carry the Bible with them
to their country seats, to purify their souls during the recess ;
but considering the little benefit they had derived from the ad-
vice, he would re,einmend the trial of anodic,- reniedy of a
more searching nature, which had been expressly prepared for
their own case by the celebrated Captain Rock, being the pub-
lication he had alluded to ; and if this should fail to move
their consciences, he knew of nothing but the liquid lake
described by their Scotch Pastor, that was likely to bring
them to a sense of their errors. But however that might
be, he challenged them to read and answer this book, which
contained a short but complete history of the causes of the
present state of Ireland, and a true picture of the moral and
religious feelings of the patrons of the Bible' Society. The
staagrestpthbariuuseesder
ooff
tChleiri3stAnewsitwyithrepberoiiniced the High Priests
ghhypri
hypocrites
twku
would he have said to the present Gospel-teaching Ministers,
who propagated his doctrines throughout the globe in the teeth
' of their conduct to that unhappy country. If further proof
were wanting, what stronger than the case of the late Alia.
sionary Smith ; for who, after all, were the real authors
: of the insurrection at Demerara? Not the zealous Missionary;
not the unhappy slaves ; nor their more unhappy_ masters,
w whom, he believed,
to
elievedb,eifunoatnfxoriouhsumto protectanit;at leathsetirforotiviaeesir in-
terest'snthe estates they worked upon; nor hotly, (lid .he accuse
' the Military or Civil Authorities of the Settlement, placed
by the Government in so cruel a state of responsibility and
danger; but the Ministers themselves, who to serve theirpoli-
deal purposes, had encouraged these Missionaries in the teeth
of their own admission of the folly anti danger of their proceed-
ings ; for in the la.'t Session they had de, : ired the Missioeary
Smith to hav: been the cause of the insurrection, whom the
Bible Society had held up as their best and 'nest exemplary
agent. And what was the truth betwixt them ? The Right Hon.
Gentleman, with the usual consistency of his speeches, condemn-
ed the Missionary as guilty, whilst he deeply lamented his fate;
but in justice to the character of the deceased, he should have
proved his charge and spared his lamentations,which only injured
the accused by their semblance of candour. For himself he be-
lieved that no unprejudiced mind could have read the evidence
without a conviction of the truth and sincerity of the deceased's
, declarations of his innocence ; that however mistaken in his re-
ligious feelings, he had been actuated by a pure and disinterest-
ed zeal in the cause, and like the Apostles, in going forth to
preach the Gospel, hid taken neither scrip nor purse. But in
thus defending his moral character from the base motives which
passion, prejudice, or cold-blooded policy had imputed to it;
he must equally avow his contempt of all these Bible Societies,
which, whether comp' sed of knaves or dupes, were alike false,
absurb, and dangerous to the last degree, but connived at by
Ministers to eever the still greater impos.ure of their Govern-
ment. The Right Honourable Gentleman, to adapt his elo-
quence to the set rit of the times, and to tickle the Bible Society,
as he had tickled his Learned Friends, by his praise of the
Gallant Member for Southwark, had declared the Shibboleth
of his policy; and comparing its treacherous and inhuman
consequences with his far fetched story from the Bible, he
could not have hit upon a Netter word ; but for his policy,
he had always proclaimed it to be Mr. Pitt's system, or to
quote his religious muse, " Elijah's Mantle,", which, accord-
ing a psalm of his own composing, had been trted by all, and
fitted nobody but himself', and now at last he hail got it on his
back, he found it too old and threadbare to serve his purpose,
and instead of replacing it with a new one, was vainly endea-
vouring to repair it, but who but himself would patch an old
coat with new cloth, in mending his old system with his new
principles of Free Trade, which could not hold together. This
fallacy had been well exposed by an Hon. Member, who main-
tained, that without a repeal of the Corn Laws, the attempt
would ruin our manufactures—would that the judgment of the
• same Hon. MeMber had been equally unbiassed upon the ques-
retion of that worst of impostures, the Sinking Fund, to support
which the Assesed Taxes were contieued. And here he must take
the liberty of reading to him his own lecture to another Hon.
Member who, in the lastSeemion,had soared above all in his flight
of humanity upon a question wherein he had no private interest ;
but upon another question' betwisit the Brewers and the Public,
stuck to the golden rule of every man for himself; so the other
Hon. Member, who had fought like a lion in tile cause of the
people throughout all the stages of the Corn Bill, turned tail
upon the question of a sinking fund, to which he could only
look with the eye of a Loan Contractor. Here lay the root of
the evil, which nothing but reform could cure; for it was to
this feeling of self-interest, in those who-held- the remedy -in
their own hands, that all the miseries of Spain, of Ireland, and
of suffering humanity throughout the world, were mainly to
be ascribed.- The Right Hon. Secretary had declared that his
Shibboleth was England. Would to God it were so, anti that
he would only prove it in setting that example of public virtue
which alone was wanting to raise her to a prouder station than
she had yet filled amonst the Powers of Europe.
" Oh England ! model of thy inward greatness,
Like little body with a mighty heart;
What might'st thou do, that honour would thee do,,
Were all thy children kind and natural ;"
And what prevented her, but that unnatural system of her
Government, which had wasted her strength, blasted her
character, and reduced her to the lowest state of moral and
political disgrace. For what was her real situation, and the
short answer in all the vain boastings of her Ministers? Look
to her debt of 800 millions, which neither ten years of peace,
nor all he retrenchments forced upon her Government, had
one jot diminished; and this was the key to that new system
of her policy, wherein the same Ministers who had expended
millions upon millions to deliver Spain from France, and uphold
the liberties of England in the general liberties of Europe, had
now forsooth discovered, that her true interest was to stand
alone and (as the the Right Hon. Secretary expressed) to move
within the circle of her own Orbit. But for once let him quit his
tropes and metaphors, and answer in plain language to the I
charge of conspiracy against the liberties of his country. The
Ministers, in the King's Speech, had again openly boasted of , I

their friendly relations witli,...Those powers, who had as openly
declared their hostility to all constitutional governments, and
proved their intentions by their acts in destroying that of
Spain. What then could be the basis of such friendship, but
their mutual understanding and agreement upon that vital
question of public liberty, -the existence of which was incom-
patible with the principles of the Holy Alliance stood pledged
to establish; and that this was the factrhe boldly asserted, and
as firmly believed; whilst of all parties concerned, the Mini-
sters of England stood the deepest involved in the guilt.—
As to the others, with the 'exception of him whose mon-
strous .abuse of the power to which .his.brother legitimate*
had restored him, seemed to have been ordained by Provi-
dence to mark the folly of their cause, and the justice Of the
cause of the people ; there was not an individual
.of those
exalted personages whose private character, from all he had
seen, heard, and believed,, he did not respect ; whilst he con-
sidered their political feelings to be only the natural conse-
quences of the mimes which had excited them ; but he could
!find no excuse for those who, born in the land of liberty, edu-
cated in her school, and indebted to her protection for the
wealth and honour they had acquired, should noiv'tlesert her
cause, break clown the ladder which had raised them,and trample
• on the people's heads.' But, whatever the motives of the parties
for which they must answer to their God, it was their conduct
the people had to look to .;" and whether the Governments of
',France and Spain, the Governments of the Holy Alliance, or
abOye all,. the Government of England, he denounced the whole
ai • conspirators arainst the liberties of mankind, and called
Upon the ringleaders to answer to the charge. Most gravely
and deliberately he .accused them of having wilfully neglected
that glorious occasion which the return of peace, and the de-
struction.of Buonaparee's power, had affinded'ef re-establish-
ing the liberties of Europe upon a firm basis ; and of setting
up a more dangerous and detestable tyranny in-its ;
and that instead of availing themselves of that dear-bought,
but invaluable lesson which the history of the French Re-
volution had taught both crowns and people, in pointing out
to both their true interests ; once more, like their prototype
Pitt, but with still less excutie, they had conspired with the
Powers of Europe..against the liberties of the people, solely
to prevent reform -in the abuses of their own Government.
And let the people rook 'to the progress they had made._
Three years since Spain was free, and France boasted of her
Charter; but now, Spain was groaning under a double sla-
very ; France was plainly told by her Ministers she must ex-
piate the crimes of her revolutionary by returning to her former
state; whilst the Ministers of England, who began their part in
the' performance with invectives against Bourbon treachery,
and prayers for Spanish independence, were now praying in
their hearts for the re-establishment of that system in France,
which they found to be the only chance for the continuance
of their own ; for they well knew that peace could not be
maintained betwixt the twa nations without a fairer balance
of the conditions of the people in both; and that neither tithes
nor excessive taxation could be much longer imposed on the
one, without being regenerated in the other. But if the dis-
tresses of the pecpJe could not move the Ministers, let them at
Least turn their eyes to their own dangers, and the rotten foun-
dation on which their power rested, for whilst the GOvern-
Ment of France rode triumphant over the people, and found it
needless to dupe them longer, even with the name of their
-Charter; the Ministers of England had no real power what-
ever, but like dishonest servants, only k:Tt in place by im-
posing on the credulity of their master—what better illustra-
tion of the strength, courage, and generosity of the nation,
contrasted. with the weakness, cowardice, and baseness of her
Govanment, than the act of, the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman, who, as one of the people, had advertised his sub-
scription to the relief of the Spanish Patriots, from whom,
as Minister, he hal withdrawn the trifling support the Govern-
ment had allowed them ; and whilst thus meanly truckling .to
Foreign. Powers, what greater proof of their tyranny at home,
and the insolence of that faction which usurped the pOwers of
the Constitution, avid lorded it equally over the Crown and the
people, than that the same Sovereign, .who had proclaimed the
eqieality of civil and political rights to all his German subjects,
was prevented by his Ministers from doing the same justice to
the Catholic population of his United Kingdom. And what
was their excuse? The danger of the Protestant Religion—
But was ever assertion so false, or hypocrisy so great, as that
which pretended to believe it!—but which well knew that the
danger was not to the Established Religion, but to an enor-
moue Church Establishment in Ireland, which required the
expence of a large standing army to support it, in the teeth
of alt justice, and true religion, and the sense and feeling of
the people. As .to Catholic:Emancipation, if no other benefit
was to accrue from the measure, but the transfer of the tidies
collected from the Catholic people to the Catholic church, lie
should consitter it an act of justice and sound policy, and ap-
peal to every arwientied the Right lion. Secretary, upon his
motion to enable Catheqic Peers to sit in Parliament, to con-
fisl-m his own opinion ; and as to others of his piebald Cabinet
who would scare the nation with the danger of Catholic As-
cendancy, he called upon them at once to put an end to all re-
ligious differences, and unite Catholic, Protestant, and Dis-
sliter, in their country's cause, by graciously permitting their
own Sovereign to do that by the people of the United King-
dom, which he had done by the people of Hanover. No-
thing short of this multi give that strength to the Govern-
ment which, *matter whatever form, was essential to support
it; and if such lied been the advancement of general know-
ledge and education, that this concession had been deemed ne-
cessary to the slaves of despotic Government, to whom the
freedom of the press, the only real liberty, Ives still unknown,
how mush more necessary to that people who, in the establish-
ment of their liberties, beheaded one king, dethroned another,
and setup a third, to- the exclusion of the legitimate heir to
time Crown, whom the voice of the people declared to have
forfeited his right'? and unless, the Ministers could make up
their minds to this measure, which, if not conceded, would even-
tually' be forced upon them, they had better at once drop the
curtain upon the farce they had so lone' been playing. in that
!louse, and either shut its doors, cr at least march those out of
it who dared impeach their conduct, as the Deputy Manuel
was marched out of the French Chamber.

Sir J. NEWPORT, although he was aware that many
future opportunities would present themselves to offer his feeble,
but strenuous opposition to the measures alluded to in the pre-
, sent Address, could not mist athiressing the House at present.
The Right Hon. Secretary said last night, that no Member was
pledged to any specific measure by voting for the present
Address, and asserted that the House would be called on to give
their assent to nothing but facts. He (Sir J. Newport) denied
that the statements in the Speech were facts. He denied that
the Catholic Association was the cause of any disturbance in
the country; bat that, on the contrary, it was the great source
of tranquillity in Ireland. He would ask the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman at what period it was intended that these measures were
to be brought forward ? It was fit and right that the House
should know this, in'order that every Member might be present
and prepared to speak his mind. This was a measure affecting
not Ireland only,: but England also—Wean—for whatever af-
fected the peace of Ireland, must necessarily have an influence
on that of England.—(Hear !)—He should also like to know
whether any documents were to be submitted to a Committee,
on whose Report a law might be based, or whether a Bill was
to be introduced at once to the Uprise, without any facts hav-
ing been previously submitted. If there were any such papers
they ought immediately to be put into the hands of Members,
otherwise it would be robbing the people of the country of
their right to form an opinion on the measures of their Repre-
sentatives. The Right Hon. Secretary had said last night, that
the people were disposed to draw a line of distinction between
the English and Irish Catholics. It was to be hoped that such
language had long since been pelt an end to. If the Catholic
Association walseendged a dangerons institution, no one was
to be Thanked far it except the Lord Chancellor and the Right
Bon. Gentleman oppoSite (Mr. J'eel). Again and again had
it been declared in both'Houses of Parliament, that the people
of England did not wish to have the great bar between the re-
ligions of the country thrown down ; Session after Session had
the Catholics been taunted and neglected, and now when they
began to act for piemselves, when they began to speak out, and
say that as theirlaighta had been disregarded they would exert
themselves to obtain them, and would contribute the means from
their own exhausted.purses, they were to be accused of acting
illegally, and were threatened to be put down by the strong arm
of the law. As to the assertion that the intended measure should
effect equally silo- •Gatholie aisd irate Associations, he mild
not forget what passed in ILI3, when the Right Hon. Pre;
eident of the Board of Controul brought forward a measure
to call from the House an expression of sentiment against those
very Orange Associations, as being illegal. On the part of the
Tree...wry Bench (the Right Hon. President was not then on
the-Treasury Bench), it was met by the Order of the, Day, but
both measures were finally withdrawn. On that occasion the
present Right Hon. Secretary of State (Mr. Canning) said, " it
was consolatory to reflect, that amidst all the digressions of the
evening, no one had denied the illegality and bad effects of those
Associations." One Noble Lord went so far as to say, that
the mere expression of the sentiment of the House would he
quite sufficient, and that the Associations would; cease to exist
before the end of the Session. The Attorneir-General of
Ireland said they were illegal, and might be put. down by the
existing laws. Yet they had not been put down, and were
still in fearful activity. The laws might exist in the Satute-
book ; but how were they to be put in execution ? Was it to
be tolerated that high law officers of the Crown should be
members of these Associations ? Where was the fairness and
equality of such a procedure ? No one could .point out an
instance of any of the officers of the Catholic Association
holding places of authority under the Crown. Great credit
had been assumed by Government last night for its liberality
towards Ireland. For any real liberality he was ready to be
grateful ; but he could not forget the occasions and circum-
stances under which that liberality was shewn. The first pe-
riod was when a French and Spanish fleet was riding view..

rious in the British Channel.—(Hear !)—The second period v.-as
in 1792, a petition from the Roman Catholics, though very mo-
derate in its demands, was driven from the House, almost by
acclamation, hut in the next year the state of France created
alarm, and the very Ministers who the year before had re-
jected the petition with scorn, came down to make larger grants
than the Catholics themselves had requested.—(Hear !)--Let
no man, therefore, be duped with the cant about liberality.
It was.fear, occasioned by a large body of discontented sub-
jects, which produced these concessions. The Catholics were
never so strong and so consolidated as at present, and the
cause was to be found in the misgovernment of Ministers. He
greatly lamented the course events had taken. He had lived
long in Ireland, and witnessed many vicissitudes and con-
vulsion. His .affections, his interests, his title, all w'as
wrapped up in the fate of the country, and he could
not therefore but deeply - deprecate the -conduct which -Mi-
nisters had pursued. They. would continue to defer every
'measure of conciliation until all favourable opportunities of
conferring a favour gracefully would be lost, and amidst heart-
burnings and discontent they would be obliged to bend to ne-
cessity. For 'Must:: he had spoken as he thought and as his
sense of duty prompted.—Liberavi animarn ineant..--Ile could
-not live much longer, and beforethe present events were passed
away lie should be no more; yet were it his last dying breath
he would give it as his most conscientious opinion that if Mi-
nister allowed the present opportunity for employing concilia-
tory means, to pass away, anti resorted to measures of violence,
they would have to deplore the most frightful disturbances, and
ultimately the loss of Ireland.
_ _

Mr. Secretary PEEL hoped that he should not be accused
of disrespect to the Right Hon. Baronet, if he did not follow
him through all the topics of his speech, as so many other occa-
sions would occur for delivering his sentiments on the same to-
pics. By voting for the address, no man was pledged to approve
of the measures afterwards to be brought forward by Ministers.
Those measures would be proposed by the Government on its
own responsibility. In the course of the night, the Right Hon.
Secretary for Ireland would . probably give notice of those
measures. They would -be founded on observation of the
events which had taken place in Ireland, and were not the con-
sequence of suggestions from any other quarter. Nothing that
he had heard from the other side of the House had changed
his opinion as to the necessity of submitting some specific mea-
sure against the Catholic Association. He could not believe
that the warmest advocate for emancipation would uphold the
proceedings of the Catholic Association. Every one who re-
spected the administration of justice, and thought that it ought
to be pure, must believe that it was greatly endangered, by the
principles and practice of the Association. Would the House
of Commons permit that Association to levy taxes—to interfere
in the execution of the laws, and to institute prosecutions ?
Much had he heard about the Constitutional Association, and
of its having arrogated the powers of the Attorney-General, and
yet the same persons who were so very earnest in their condem-
nation of it, seemed to view wilt great indifference the same
arrogation of powers by the Catholic Association. Every man
who set any value on the popular part of the Constitution
ought to protest against the assumptions of the Catholic Asso-
ciation. There were laws against all public bodies representing
the people. The Convention had been put down by these laws,
and though through an evasion this Association might escape
their letter, yet they ought not to pass untouched by some
other more specific enactments. He could not suppose it
possible that this Association received the approbation of the
whole Catholic population of Ireland. Surely they could not
approve of that Address which had been published, and which
called upon the people, " by the hatred they bore to Orange-
men," to follow a certain line•of conduct. When this Ad-
dress was voted, a respectable Catholic Gentlemen present im-
plored them to expunge the passage, but his proposition was
almost unanimously rejected, and the very words stood at
this moment part of the Address. He could not believe
that the Roman Catholic Laity and Ecclesiastics of Ireland
entertained towards their opponents and fellow subjects feel-
ings of such yindictive hatred. He could not and would not
believe it. He had often heard it said that the acts of a few
were not to be confounded with those of a general body, and
now when attempts were made so to confound things, he could
not but feel *Teat surprise. The Honourable and Learned
Gentleman (Mr.i Brougham), in his speech last night, had al-
luded to divisions in the Cabinet, and had said that some indi-
viduals would sooner sacrifice their opinions than give up
their places, and that they were ready to follow the House
and the country in whatever might appear to be the prevail-
ing opinion. Ile did not wish to speak of himself (Mr.
Brougham here said, that he never meant to allude to Mr.
Peel). He did not wish to separate himself from his col.
leaguer. As for the Lord Chancellor, in spite of all the impu-
tation; throvin upon him, he would go down to posterity as
the most consistent politician that ever held the Great Seal.
—(Cheers.)—The whole tenor of the Noble Lord's life con-
tradicted the charges of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.
For himself' he should take every opportunity of expressing
his opinions on this question, and he trusted the Learned
Gentleman would give him credit for sincerity—( Hear, hear,
from Mr. Brougham).—The Right Hon. Baronet had said
that he (Mr. Peel) and the Lord Chancellor were responsible
for the Catholic Association, and that they had always taunted
the Catholics. He was not aware of ever having done so, and
had endeavoured to support his opinions by facts and fair ar-
guments. So should' he now Gall upon Parliament to put down
the Catholic Association, which was engendering strife, and
exasperating the people of Ireland. He rejected the allusion
of the Hon. Member for Westminster (Mr. Hobhouse) who
said that if the Association were put down by law, it would
he necessary for the execution of those laws to resort to mi-
litary force. Ile had too good an opinion of the Catholics of
Ireland to believe this, for they would render obedience to the
laws without the.intirference of military power. Other occa-
sions would arise, to deliver himself at greater length upon this
subject, and he would trouble the House when they occurred.--
(Hear, hear!)
Sir J. NEWPORT explained.
Mr. C. H. HUTHINSON said, that the Catholic Associa-
tion ought not to be regarded as the representative of the Ca-
Mahe body of Ireland.—(Hear, hear !)—lt was the repre.
sentative of the feelings and interests of the population, but
not of the population itself. After the beautiful speech of the
Right Honourable Baronet--(Cheers)--who had been for
many years the champion of Ireland—(Hear, hear)--he would
not say more on this subject, but begged to be understood
as adopting all the sentiments which had fallen from the Right
Hon. Baronet. It was painful to him to dissent from the Ad-
dress, which was generally regarded as complimentary to the
Throne, but,he should do great violence to his own feelings if
he suffered the Address to be voted without entering Ids pro-
test against it. Ministers had put into the Speech that which
was not true ; they wished to register under the authority of
both Houses of Parliament a libel against the Catholics of
Ireland.—( Hear n-All the valuable parts of our Constitution
were gained by associations similar to the Catholic Asso-
ciation, and this he challenged the Right Honourable. Centle..
man to deny if he dared. It was said the Association created
alarm. With whom ? Why amongst the Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite, and the faction which they countenanced in Ireland,
and which lived upon the disturbance of the country. So
long as Mr. O'Connell, and other respectable gentlemen, con-
tinue to trumpet forth the wrongs of the Catholics, just so long
would they create alarm in the breasts of their oppressors._
He deplored any thing in the speeches of that body which
gave just ground of offence to any one, as he had always
*aid nothing could do the Catholic cause harm but the Ca-
tholics themselves. If they continued steadily to proclaim
their grievance, the question would speedily be carried, and
every disability, insult, and inquiry, would be effaced from
the Statute-book. Until this there could be no security for
the country. He protested against this declaration of war
against Ireland, and he would continue to denounce it from
his seat in Parliament at every peril.--(Hear !)—The system
pursued towards Ireland ever since the Union had been partial
and oppressive. He had constantly called the attention of Mi-
nisters to it, but in vain, until very recently. He hoped it
might continue to improve, and ended with expressing his
sent from the Address. _ _

Sir T. I.EI4IBRIDGE' said that he regarded the question
of Ireland with great anxiety. He thought for the sake of Ire-
land and the Catholics themselves, that the Catholic Association
ought to be put down by law. He thanked Ministers for inti-
mating t,tch an intention, and if they had not done so, the House
'ought to ?mire originated such a measure itself.- He had been
surprised to hear any Gentleman attempt to excuse the acts of
the Association ; for nothing could be more inconsistent and un-
satisfactory than these attempts. One Gentleman said it was the
representation of the whole Catholic population of Ireland; ano-
ther said it was not; another that it was the representative of
all the Catholics in the empire. He had read of the English
Catholics making common cause with the Association, and thus
identified they must be regarded as one. The Hon. Member
for Cork (Mr. Hutchinson) said they were the Representatives
not of the population, but only of the feelings and interest of
the population. This was a distinction so refined that he could
not understand_ it. It was, in fact, n Catholic Parliament ;
now one Parliament was quite as much as the British Constitu-
tion contemplated—(Cheers and laughter) ;—and he hoped the
House would not tolerate the existence of another Parliament.
—(Hear!)--

Lord Iit.JGENT said, that the Right Hon. Secretary had
begun his speech with a most unhappy comparison ; one which
drew him into a very gross inconsistency. The weapon he used
was double edged, for if the Bridge-street Association was ille-
gal,
why was nor a prosecution instituted against it? In no
one instance had the Attorney-General issued a moll prosequi,
to give a check to their career. If, however, the Catholic As-
sociation was illegal, as was alleged, why should a now law be
instituted in order to put it down ? The Roman Catholics of
England felt disposed to concur in feeling with the Catholic
Association of Ireland, and had actually identified theriiselves

hA'i with it. H
Ilse would have to submit a Petition from them to t l 1 ~
House with three times the number .of signatures which hao
ever before been attached to a petition from British Catholics
et
which was a proof that they were not to be deterred from stands ;et'
ing forward to assert, not merely their own rights, but these o se.
, A v
their brethren in the Sister Kingdom.
Mr. PEEL and Lard NUGEN T mutually explained.
Mr. TRA NT wished to correct ane satisfy the mind . es• s
Hon. Member for Curb as to the confidenee or' English e e,
lists in embarking their money in Irish speculatiente ' 'I,
had the honour of attending a meeting this veryAltP.i'e , -gs •
Provincial Mining Company, and assured the Hcruseto.. 1 '
proceedings went forward with en increased anituattitnee' -hi` ' ' •
was not damped or checked by, anefehing which had occurred i s ,
either House of Parliament during the sittings of yesterday.
~ 'e
Mr. DENMAN was glad that the debate had gone on.WiY's' '
such animation,. and he trusted that if a measure of''conte-avoe,
tion were adopteti against the Association, the Other Assonle",
dons would experience the- full
.benefit of such a measure, ac''.
cording to the tsnor of the King's Speech. if the Associating)
should turn' out to be contrary to law, why should the House-
legislate to put it down.? He hoped the Ministers would note
resort to coercive measures, which usually began in cruelty 001
ended in injustice. He hoped they would not put it down 11! i
violence; merely because it was hostile to the Government, 1
which had never waged a tongue against the Bridge-street MO'
ciation. No t that Association was encouraged and detendeo, '
although it was an imperium in intperio—although it usurped
the authority of the Government, and violated the spirit of the i
Constitution! yet because it played the game of 4 Power •
• ,
Power ! winked at its proceedings. As for the Catholic Assn'
ciation of Ireland, he could better defend their conduct than he -
could that of that House—the former acted inself-defence while
scandalously run down; but the latter were committing an out'
rage against those to whom they. denied justice. The Roust of .
Commons had said, that Catholic Emancipation must efettil"
ally-be carried, but it was, difficult to fix the period when they
would cousent to its adoption. They were then exposing them'
selves to all ether Powers, who might attempt to practise an
their discontent. It must pass : but he would ask—whe' 1
bloodshed might not intervene from deferring the reasonable
redress of heavy grievances. The present discussion might be
compared td that which occurred at the commencement of the
American war ; and he would now predict that they were
about not to enter into a similar war, but to bring America i°
their own doors. When the Hon. Baronet 'said that he retire'.
sented the people of England, while throwing down the gaunt`
let against the Association, he begged to remind him that
he (Mr. Denman) also knew something of the people 1
England ; and to the ignorant only be ascribed so°
sentiments as those he stated. With regard to the. measures
to be brought forward, he could only say, that he would be et
his post, and oppose them in every stage of their progress. One
Member had said, that he should expect the proofs of that
which had been stated in the Address ; he, however, trederstooil
from the Hon. Secretary that evening, that no proofs were to be
adduced ; and that without them the sword was to "ne unsheathed
and the scabbard thrown away ; but a hop: of conciliatidil
should by possibility be entertained. lie crusted that the
Member for Hertford would not give his powerful support to
the measures against the Catholics, now that no proofs were
to be adduced e at least no other than that Proclamatio,ll
which had been made such use of, and which he entireil
approved of, with the simple exception of the adjuration
passage which had been turned to such good account ou di!
preceding evening. They were to have no other ground-wors
for their enactments than Newspaper report, which the Honour;
able Gentleman, the Attorney-General for Ireland, wool I tell
them they should be cautious of trusting to. Much had been
said about the interference of the Priesthood, although jet,
this country there were Societies for the Prosecution of,
Felons; and other societies, which were open to all classes 0'
his Majesty's subjects to become members of; anti why iv:r°
Priests to be excluded from all rights of citizenship ?—(1/01.::
hear l)—He• had heard of the thunder on the pisicedhhh
evening, but here was a Jupiter about to use his thund'l
against the Catholics without hearing them in their de'
fence. He (Mr. D.) hoped there would be no division on the
Address ; bet if there should be, lie-could not conscientiouslY
approve of it. With respect to the Association, lie would sal'
that it was the least formidable mode of proceeding which the
Catholics could have adopted ; and to check its progress Woul!
have a peculiar tendency to aggravate their distresses, irritate
their feelings, and render the situation of the empire nitiniteir
more precarious.—( Loud cheering.)
Mr. It. MARTIN bore testimony as to the send:went-toe
the Catholics of Galway in particular, and of Ireland geii,F:'
rally, which were, closely identified in feeling with the Catlion'
Association. That Association was given birth to almost en'
tirely by the Chancellor of England. The Catholics of ire''
land could not but reprobate those who had refused to do tlhae
for the loyal Catholics of England which had been done W.,',
themselves, whose loyalty was much more equivocal. 'Thee
concluded that the man who could act thus, would not hest'
tate, if he dared, to re-enact the Popery Laws, and once 11""".
deprive thsni of those privileges of which they were then heil;
pily in possession. The lion. Gentleman then contended, the
the Catholic Priesthood claimed no such power as that of the
remission of sins; their form of doing so was nearly theist°
as that of the Church of England, and was in _common Pet:
lance, " I forgive you, a penitent." He trusted no violent
measures would he resorted to against the Association.
Sir H. PARNELL wished to give his testimony as to the.
feelings of the Catholics of Ireland, and lis could assure i"
House that they placed the most implicit confidence in the A''',.
sociation ; the most perfect union prevailed in order to suPP°'
it, and the Catholic Nobility were large subscribers toils fund'''
The Hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs had rested his whole
t'
case on the fact that there was no identification between ''
Catholic People and the Association, but such was not. the faehs
and identified as they were, in reality lie hoped that Ministers
would beware of the extent to which they were driving matt
in that country. The Catholics hitherto had met not only Wit t
denial, but a new mode was about to be rdopted, and aggression'
was to be added to their other glievances.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD had never estimated highly thee
knowledge possessed by Ministers with respect to Ireland, bit
_g"
in no former instance had that ignorance been so gross es w'ee.
at present displayed. Great danger did certainly attach to tee
Catholic Association of Ireland, for if it was not-in law a retire"
sentation of the Catholics, it was in feeling. The adherence
to it by all classes was undivided, 'and it was therefore pref." .
nant with danger, for they were- numerous, being rio less tbsis '
six millions, and possessed feeling which no honest Engli-j:
man could condemn—but he would ask; was that danger- t'' -
be increased by driving them to desperation, and yet such lf '
feared would be the case. On no occasion had he ever 8U .
dressed that House with such desponding feelings as et that
moment, understanding as he' did that it was the inien‘
tion of Ministers to put down the Association at all h?,',
=eds. Under these impressions he would be dishonest if 1
suffered that night to pass without entering his protest against
that portion of the Address
u recommendin summary measurt'S
against the Association. Mt had beeng said of tire Catholic
rent, which had been denominated revenue, although
et,l's
mighty sum of 9,0001. formed the extent of their funds. 'I ;
Methodist conference collected sums to which that was a Meri •
trifle ; and as to influence, they shewed the extent to which 1.,
could be exerted in the case of the Missionary Smith. He hell
heard with awe the close of the speech of his Hon. Friend (Sit;
J. Newport) who predicted that the projected measures wool°
be regretted when he should be no more—a period which dist
House and the country would have reason to regret ; and he
fully coincided in that prediction, viewing the Catholic cause '
henceforward as completely hopeless.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that if -ate Catholic AsSeciatie,ne
had acted as the representatives of the Catholics, they *ono'
have been open to the operation .of the Convention act. Iles
had never said that they were such. What he said was, that
they were virtual representatives,
Mr. BUTTERWORTH said, that the Methodist societr
levied no revenue,. what they received were all voluntary sub-
scriptions. He knew that many Protestants had lost their
business in Ireland for not subscribing to the Catholic rent.
The Report was here brought up. .
Mr. HUME intended moving an Amendment to the Addreset
which he was only deterred from doing by the state of the House'
He had never witnessed any Members so humbled and so de-
graded as they were by the measures they were about to adoPt' e.'
The Catholics had been trampled upon, because they had been
• too long quiet. -.Oppression might be borne to a certain e%-
tent, but beyond that resistance must ensue; and the! . ,
should recollect that they sat in that House by virtue vi -
resistance to oppression on the part of their ancestorsesd, .
He could not consent to an increase in the army; ill
1792. it had been only 33,000 strong. In 1821 he 'Le'
himself moved that it should be reduced from 36 to 76,0ew
men, but, instead of reducing, he perceived they were about in
increase it. Though he would not then propose his amend' •
ment, yet, on every future occasion, he would oppose the
Speech—(a laugh)—if lie 'did not like it, and take the same •
of the House upon.it, even on the first night of the Session.
Sir C. FORBES believed that Ministers were unacquainted
with the dangers attendant upon a Burmese war : the marshes
which the troops had to encounter were as fatal as the swords
of the enemy, and of the last force sent no less than 1500 were
sent to the hospitals. He had heard with satisfaction that the ~
army was to be increased for the purpose of carrying on the
war in India. Instead, hoWeVer, of 15,000 men, they should - *
send 40 or 50,000, for the purpose of quickly effecting the ter':
mination of the war.
Mr. C. W: WYNNE said, that the war was provoked by the;
Burmese, by unwarrantable demands and aggressions, and no
other course could. be adopted. By recent accounts, the skit:
ness at Rangoon had been much diminished, and no blame could .
be attributed to-the Governor-General for not providing against
such unforeseen calamities.
Alderman HEYGATE thought it was incumbent on till