The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-31 00:00:00

ITALY.

The Roman Jioniteur publishes the following letter
from M. de Lessepi;—
_ _

"Messieurs les (;ommissaires,—You have, in my opi-
nion, four powers against you; the intentions of one of
these were not understood, which gave rise to a combat
over which a veil had better be thrown before entering
upon a conference. After my arrival I was night
and day in correspondence with your triumvirate.
I made three proposals, which were almost re-
jeeted in a letter of Signor Mazzini, who declared that
in his private opinion my proposals were of a nature not
I) be easily accepted. I prepared the modifications
thought possible, arid on receiving the annexed project
(that rejected by the Assembly), M. Mazzini invited me
to a conference with the triumvirate. I answered M.
Accussi, the bearer of the message, verbally, that I
would receive the members of the deputation. I have
privately communicated to you, Messieurs les Commis-
saires, the dispatches one and two that I sent three days
ago to my Government, and in which I explained the truth
as I had found it, and you declared to me that my infor-
mation was exact. From this moment, acting in my
own name as well as in that of General Oudinot de
Reggio, Commander-in Chief of the French expedition
in the Mediterranean, I assume my official character of
Minister Plenipotentiary of the French Republic, the
colours of which are displayed at the window of my
habitation. I remain here in permanence, disposed to
receive, dressed in my uniform, all those who may pre-
sent themselves officially on the part of the Assembly or
the triumvirate, or by the commissioners delegated by
the Natioual Assembly. The gravity of the case requires
a prompt solution, and I shall await it till midnight.
Custom requires that a piquet of honour be stationed at
my door, with ordinances un horseback for the exchange
of our respecive dispatches.
" Done at Rome, at the Albergo della Germania, via
Condotti, and communicated to the members of the de-
putarion, in a doable original, one of which remains with
us, in the presence of M. de Gerando, Chancellor of the
Ambassador of France, who has entered it on his
minutes; and of M. de la Tour d'Auvergue, Secretary of
Legation attached to my raksion.
" 19-h May, at two o'clock.

" N.B. Coramikdoners have declared to me that
they as yet have no other power from the Assembly but
that of hearing and reporting.
`.ln faith of which we have signed:—
` FERDINAND DE LESSErIi, HENRI DE LA TOUR
D'AUVERGNE ; in the name of M. DR "GE-
DANDO, and by authorisation ; ED. LEBME,

Private Secretary to the Minisier."
" P.S.—The Commissioners of the National Assembly
having, -upon bearing the above-mentioned dispatches
read, verbally aekno:li-dged the exactness of the infor-
mation giv,m by me, have not thought proper to certify
it by their signature, reserving to themselves to do it, if
necessary, when the dispatches shall have been commu-
nicated to them in an authenticated copy, a communica-
tion which I could not make bcfbre the conclusion of the
" FERDINA.ND DE LES/MPS."

colvfn:ion,

31azzini's letter alluded to in the above document
is dated Rome 16th, and professes to give the infor-
mation applied for by M. de Lesseps respecting the
actual state of home. After asserting the right
of Rowe to govern I:erself as she may think fit,
it recognises the right of France to inquire whe-
ther or not it is a factious minority that imposes
its
.la/ill on the people, and endangers the peace of
EuropT, and of France with other powers, by its
obstinate and unjustified resistance, but declares
at the same time that the present Government of
Rome is that of the majority ; that the Republic was
.tlonded by an Assembly elected by universal
suffrage ; thst, notwithstanding the disorder in
every branch of Government which the late regime
had. bequeathed to its successors, the mere pro-
clamatioa of the republican principle at once re•
stored order;_ for that while under the Papal
Government &Lily einzdes would take place, not
one could be mentioned as having taken place under
the-Republican Government; that Rossi's assassina-
tion is a solitary fact condemned by all; that not-
withstinding the heavy financial crisis, the people
meia staunch in its adherence to the Republic; for
that in tte moment of danger the Municipal Coun-
cil::; which appeared the least favourable to that
form, stepped forth unanimously, and confirmed
their adherence to it; that now, in spite of the
invA6n of France, Austria, and Naples, the Roman
finances have bet:erel their condition, the paper
munjey has risen 30 per cent from its late depression
of 42 per cent., the army daily increases, and the po-
pulanous are ready to rise; that the Roman people
hove but une determined will, the downfal of the
Pope's temporal power; and that a return to the past
can only be eff,cted over heaps of dead bodies and
the ruins of the city.

IMPERIAL PAIt,LIAMENT.
(THIS EVENING.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tho SrEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four
o'clock.

Mr. NIcuoLL t(ok the oaths and his seat for Cardiff.
TURNPIKE ACTS.

Lord DUDLEY STUART moved that the petition
of owners and cc:ut iers of houses in the New Finchley
road and Avt-nuc-road, for the introduction of clauses
into Any ge, eral Bill which might be introduced for the
continuance of Turnpike Acts, prohibiting the trustees
of ttie Marylebone and Finchley turnpike-roads from
erecting, or permitting to remain, any toll gate or bar
on any part of the Finchley-road and Avenue-road, on
the south side of or nearer to London than the Swiss
Cottage, pr. seated to,the House on the 12th of May 1848;
and the petitions tor continuance of the Maryleboue and
Finchley Road Acts, from the trustees of Marylebone
end Finchley turnpike-roads and the bonded credi-
tors cf the Marylebone and Finchley turnpike trust.
presented to the House on the 3d of August 1848, be
referred to the Committee on Group 19 of Private Bills.
Mr. GREENE objected to the motion on technical
groupds, and it was withdrawn.
REPORTS.
_ _ _

The following reports were consii!ercd and agreed to:—
East, Lothian Central Railway (Abandonment of the

Railway and Dissolution of the Company).
Stockton and Darlington Railway (Consolidation of
Acts, &c., Alteration of Line, &e.) Bill.
_ _
__ THIRD READINGS.

'rho following Bills were read a third time and passed:
Abdy'a Estate.

EistAuglian Railways (Ely and Huntingdon Railway
Extension of Time).

PETITIONS.

Lord C. MANNERS presented a petition from Melton
Mowbray against the alienation of Church property.
Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition from Melton
Mowbray in favour of the better control of county ex-
penditure.

- Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented a petition from mer-
chants and others in tho city of London against the
continuation of Smithfield market.
Mr. MARTIN presented petitions from Pontefract
and other places in the West Riding of Yorkshire, in
savour of means being taken to prevent trade in the
11,),!tiort and prostitution of %vonien.
Mr. COCKBURN presented a petition from the Town
Council of bouthanaptun, against the payment of magis-
tr..ites' dirks by fees.
. Admiral GORDON presented a petition against the
Scotch Registration and Marriage Bills.
CANADA.

In rpply to Mr. CHRISTOPHER, who alludpd to the
peilication of the Canadian papers in the Times news-
paper before they were in the hands of the Members,
Mr. HAWES stated that the papers were not
d_livered to Members on account of the holi-
days. No favouritism was shown to any particular
newspaper. In this case applications had been for early
copies by the newspapers, which had been acceded to as
soon as they were printed; and in many cases it was

most important that the Government should avail them-
selves of the great publicity which the newspapers
afforded-fir making the public acqtninted with impor-
tant public documents.—(Cheers.)
Mr. M061.17N presented a petition from Denbigh-
shire praying that the County Courts might be o,xtoived.
Mr. COBDEN presenttd e petition in favour of the
liberation of Mr. Shore from sev:ral Diss-nting congre-
gations, and in favour of the rep-al of the Septennial Act.
ORKNEY AND SHETLAND GRIEVANCES.
Mr. ANDERSON gave notice that on Tuesday, the
12th of June, he w mald move for a Select Committee to
inquire into the allegations of certain petitions from the
landholders, traders, and other inhabitants of Orkney
and Shetland, complaining of various local grievances
operating as impediments to the due development of the
industrial resources of those islands.
LUNATIC ASYLUMS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The HON. MEMBER also gave notice that in case the
Bill should pass the second reading, he would move in
Committee that the islands of Orkney and Shetland be
exempted from its operation.
SUPPLY.
_ _

On the motion for the consideration of the report of
the Committee of Supply,
Sir 11. IVILLOLTGIIBY rose to move, pursuant to
notice, a reduction of 50,000/. in the navy estimates,
with reference :o wages and artificers. The vote of last
year was 851,0001., that was reduced to 811,000/. in the
estimates of the present year, being a reduction of 40,0001.,
and what he now proposed was to reduce that amount
by 50,0001. He held in hie hand the expenditure for
the last few years, but he could see no such sum as this
as ever having been demanded of the House of Commons
under No. 8. Take the seven years from 1835 to 1842
he found the average somewhere about 400,000/, while
in the seven years from 1842 to the present time the
average was 701,0001. Therefore that proved at once
the vote now demanded from the House was consider-
ably in excess of the average of the last seven years,
and at a period too during which they had
~been
what was called creating a steam navy. The same
was the case with regard to the workers and
artificers ; for he found by the returns that the
number of men employed in the dockyards had increased
from 9,000 men in 1842 to 13,000 in 1848, exclusive of
convicts; so that, both in point of men and
money, there had been a continual increase, and
he therefore wanted to know how it was that the
Admiralty had not complied with the recommendations
of the Committee which had sat upon this subject. It
really was high time that the matter was looked into.
With a navy, consisting of 70 vessels, of upwards of 72
guns each, they had a steam navy of 5,000 horse power,
and he wanted to know where the limit was to stop ?
How long was this extravagant waste of the public money
to go on? At all events, some explanation was due to
the House from the Admiralty, and be now felt it to be
his duty to call for it. He had to ask on what principle
this enormous expense had been regulated? He admit-
ted that there might be danger of war; but there was
another danger, that of disgusting the people of this
country at the enormous amount of our taxation ; and
be thought no Member would be bold enough to get
up in his place and say which of these two evils was the
greater. The Hon. Member concluded by proposing the
reduction of which he had given notice.
Sir FRANCIS BARING, who was heard very in-
distinctly in the gallery, was understood to say that
if the proposed reductions were made, other expenses,
almost equal in amount, would have to be incurred.
He did not think that our steam navy was more exten-
sive than was necessary; already a reduction of 86 000/.
(we understood) had been made in the wages of the
artificers, and a further reduction of 10,0001. in the
wages of? the officers. He quite agreed wish the Hon.
Member (Sir H. Willoughby) that every possible
economy ought to be practised in the expenses of the
navy; but, at present, it would be impossible to make
the reduction which had been proposed.
Mr. HENLEY said the Right Hon. Gentlemen the
First Lord of the Admiralty had stated that the number
of seamen, and the efficiency of the force, must keep pace
with the nuent-r of the force employed. That was a
sound principle, but it was not carried out in practice.
It wanted explanation oa the face of the cLeument, but
of which he could see no explanation in that document.
Putting aside the expenditure for the purpose of the
creation and maintenance of a steam navy, it did
so happen that in the first five of the last
ten years the average number of seamen was rather
larger, by about 700 or 800, than in the last five years.
The average of the dockyard wages of those first five
sears was 552,8621., but in the last five years it was
680,000/. There they had an annual increase of
140,0001. in wages, for no possible good reason
that he could understand. The doCkyard wages,
on the same number of seamen, bad in-
creased twenty-three per cent. ; that was the
gross increase in five years; and the stores had in-
creased 11 per cent. He did think that was a state of
things that made it very difficult to assent to the truth
of the proposition stated by the First Lord of the Ad-
miralty that the gr.( atest economy had been observed.
Captain PECLIELL said that he could only remind
the House of the first occasion on which he had spoken
of the working of the system, and he might say as he
had spoken on all occasions, no person of any experi-
ence or consideration at all but could bear testimony to
the truth of the statements of the recommendations
which he had put before the country. These circum-
stances all confirmed him in the impression
which he veLtared to convey to the House dar-
ing the two last years, viz., the reduction of
the number of the middies in the Dockyards.
1k did not know what they were called now, but in the
old times, when he was a comparative youngster, they
were always called" Dockyard Middies."—(Hear, hear.)
lie was glad to have the opportunity of confirming the
statements which he had turmerly made with respect to
the caulking of the ships in the British navy.
If; as he had recommended, Jeffrey's marine
glue had been used th re woutt, kave been no necessity
whatever for improving the caulkin; of the vessels in
the Briti.,ll nary, and he trns ed, therefore, that the
reductions which he had recommended would be carried.
But now the matter was different, if a vessel went
round to Portsmouth or Plyme uth, and especially if it
touched at Madeira, it required recaulking. And all
this occurred because this valuable invention had not
been applied to our royal navy.--(Hear.) He trusted,
however, that it would short be used, for he firmly
believed that it would be eminently useful to the whole
of the service. In the caulking of small ships it would
be especially valuable by being made instrumental in
keeping the ships dry interneby, in preserving the
hammocks of the seamen from dampness, and in promot-
ing the general comfort of the crew. He was satisfied
that by the use of this invention at least 30,000 s would
be saved to the country. •
Sir C. BURRELL bore testimony to the statement
made by the Gallant Member with respect to the ad-
vantage of the use of marine glue. He had tried it him-
self for various purposes and found it most invaluable.
Sir F. BARING said that Mr. Jeffrey had brought
the question of his marine glue before him, and the sub-
ject of his invention was Low under the consideration of
the Admiralty.
Sir JO FIN TYRELL bore testimony to the value of
Mr. Jeffrey's discovery. It was a most useful and prac-
ticable one.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY then withdrew his amend-
ment, and the report was ordered to be received.
COLONEL MURGOCH.
Mr. SCULLY asked the Secretary at War to explain
why this p.ntleman's widow had been refused a pension.
Mr. FOX MA ULE spoke from memory, but if he was
not mistaken, the case referred to by the Hon. G• ntle-
man was adjudicated upon as far back as the time when
his Noble Friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs held
tilt office of Secretary at War, and it had been con-
sidered by every Secretary at War since. Colonel
Murdoch at the time he married the lady in question
was 70 years of ege, and it was a rule at the
War-office not to grant pensions to the widows of half •
pay officers who married atter 60 years, as an induce-
ment would be held out to officers in the last stage of
existence to marry ladies to secure them pensions.
The report anti items were then agreed to.
CIVIL CONTINGENCIES.
The Souse then went into Committee of Supply,
On the vote for Civil Contingencies being proposed,
Mr. B. OSBORNE drew attention to the excessive
amounts that were granted for miscellaneous estimates.
Aitogetht r they amounted to about 3,000,0001., but as com-
pared with the grants of 1348 there was a reduction of
20,0002, though-upon the grants of 1347 there was an in •
crease of 5,0001 The first item was for special missions,
foreign and colonial; a sum of 6001. was put down
as expenses incurred in settling the terms of
the American boundary question; a similar vote
was proposed every year, and altogether there
had been expended by the Commission no less
than 29,0001., and he wished to know how long that
vote was to be continued. There was another charge of
2,0001. for the expense of Lord 11.into's mission; last
year there was a similar charge of 2,0001., and h 3
wwpaihsishat.ed to ask whether it was to be continued, and
was The
nextth the total amount
was stlsL that
for hadthe e bxepeen_
year
()e el Wi
ti,oi
ilodoet:o,
and
the year Portugal,
ad ivtiootne
last
Colonel
for b
beforeut there
(he wbe-
lieved) there was another vote. The expenses of pas-
sages for bishops was only 1661.; that, he thought, was
a matter of great congratulation, for last year it
amounted to 1,209/. There was an item of 1,1004 for
Mr. Sotitheron's expedition to Buenos Ayres; and an
item of 1001. to the new President of Liberia. Now,
he was not a sufficient geographer to know where Li-
.beria was.--(Laughter.) Ott looking to the map he
votes
sd nhoet
sfihnodu T. di t,
rot haveiif
ho
khnal nnotth aElteesnueiht a pa in
n thece
existed,repub (L
lic. or that
republic.—(Laughter.) )weThelinadthertehewreas
an
mvhed
a of
4451. for triennial trumpets; and it was a curious fact,
—aug
that though the trumpets were triennial the votes were
annual.—(Laughter.) There was also 5001 for the tra-
velling expenses of the King of the Belgians ; it was
a bid principle that any royal person or any private
gentleman should call upon the people of this country,
or the CoMmons, to pay such travelling expenses.
He found since 1843 the Commission for settling the
claims of British subjects in Portugal had cost 11,3601,
and he behaved those claims were not adjudicated on
yet. There was another instance—he would not call
it a job—but he must say it was a most profuse
expenditure of the public money, Lamely, that
relating to the Commission for inquiry into the
best mode of decorating the Houses of Parli.onent. He
was not against encouraging the fine arts; he would
make no attack on the frescoes; but he did think that
6,0001. was an enormous sum for that commission
to cost the country. Then the most excessive thing
was the In alth of the metropelis—(Laughter)--which
cost 1,8001. this year, 3001. last year, and
so on. Then there was 501. as a present to
the King of Greece. He thought they would be much
better employed in making presents to that enterprising
traveller Mr. Layard. There was another curious item.
It appeared that whenever certain parties took an Evan-
gelical fit the country was to pay for it Last year

there was 5801. for thanksgiving for the famine. Then
then) was a larger sum for the Sultan of Johann°.
Who was the Sultan of Johann() ? they might
p_ke any body in for l'oool.—(Llughter.)
ColOnel 61.6'rHORif had always observed a very thin
attendance whenever a money vote was under di3cussion.
Thera were certain items in which it was impassible
t, put any faith. This was especia:ly the case with
regard to the Railway Department. This was particu•
trly the cate with regard to No. 2 on the list.
He had no hesitation in saying that he thought
the railways ought to pay the whole of their
own expences. lie bad no desire whatever to cast any
reflezion on the Noble Earl; but he (lid think that some
amendment might be made on this point. The
Honourable and Gallant Member then went into a
number of items, which it would be useless to repeat,
in order to show the excess of charges in the
department, and then further went on to say that he
firmly believed that the lion. aad Gallant Officer at the
head of what he might call the Court of Supervision,
would be unable to make any effective alteration. Yet
when he heard of the distress in Ireland and the distress
in England, with which he was very well acquainted, he
fat bound to contend against emtravagance in any of
the Government estimates.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. F. FRENCH thought that it was perfectly un-
necessary to go into the several items, yet there was one
to which he wished to call the attention of I is Right
Hon. Friend below him (Sir W. Somerville) for there
was one grant for 200,0001., which appeared to:him quite
unnecessary.