The Sun.
London, England, 1822-02-20 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 1822.

distresspervade the whole of that numerous class of his .Majesty's
subjects whose property consists of land, or of stock, or materials,
or goods, connected with,the.land, or who are in any wise depend-.
ent for their' well-being on the prosperity of Agriculture ; that
the Farther has no longerthe means to pay for the labour neces-
sary to due, cultivation ; .that the able labourer, from insufficiency
of wages, is-compelled to.beeorne a pauper, and, under that de-
grading name, and in that state of uSelessnesi, has to hemain-
tained by money drawn from the farmer, though the latter is
unable to employ him for their mutual benefit.
Your Petitioners pretend not to enter into theoretical inqui-
ries as to the cauSes which have led to this state of things, but
sorrowful experience enables them distinctly to state the practi-
cal result to be this :—that the wages or labour, the rates, the
mere sustenance of the farmer's family, and the bare interest of
his capital; now demand nearly the whole of the gross am punt
of his produce, leaving nothing for profit, and 'little or nothing
for rent ; and this result does, too, appear perfectly natural to
Your Petitioners, when they consider that the price of their
produce' taking one article with another, is now lower than it
was in 1790, while the taxeseincludiog trig illions paid for the
collection, are norrAnoii than three times as great in amount as
they were in that year.
Your Petitioners, who trust that they are insusceptible of
groundless alarm,. And who hope that your Honourable- House
will not think them capable of deliberate exaggeration, assure
your Honourable house that they think there must he, on an
average of years, a still further decline in the price of the pro-
duce of the land ; that they can see many reasons for, and none
against, this opinion ; and, if a further decline should take place
with the present taxes remaining, your Petitioners can have no
scruple to state, that it will be impossible fOr the main body of
the farmers to pay any rent at all ; thus leaving merely the name
of landlords to the owners of the land,who will then have been, by
the hand of unsparing taxation, virtually despoil ed of their estates.
" Your Petitioners forbear to describe their feelings at hear.
ing their distresses, at the end of seven years and ten months
duration, attributed, by some, to a sudden transition from war
to peace ; and at hearing those distresses ascribed, by others, to
superabundant crops, while, by the same persons, a superabun-
dant population. is at other times alleged to be the cause ; and
while, on that bare allegation, large- sums raised on your
Petitioners in taxes are expended to convey beyond the
seas a part of these superabundant consumers of your
Petitioners' superabundant crops ! Your Petitioners, turn.
ing from these notions to that plain' common sense, and
that daily experience, which tell them, that a very large
proportion of all that the farmer pays in the shape of
wages and rates, for implements of husbandry and for articles
consumed in his family, is required by the several parties to pay
the taxes on things of indispensable consumption, can be at no
loss to discover, that excessive taxation is the immediate cause
of all their embarrassment and distress; and they, therefore,
pray generally, that your Honourable House will, with a degree
of speed proportioned to the 'present necessity of the case, be
pleased to make a very great abatement in the amount of that
taxation, and, particularly, that you will repeal the taxes on
malt, salt, soap, candles and leather.
" But while your humble Petitioners well know this to be the
only immediate remedy for the intolerable evils that oppress
them, they cannot disguise frOm themselves' that these evils
would never have been known, if 'the representation of the
people in your Honourable House had been consonant -with the
long-settled laws and constitution of their country; nor will
they.disguise from your Honourable House that they have no
hope of effectual present relief; or of security against future op-
pression, but in an efficient Reform in that Representation.
" Your Petitioners, without dwelling in detail on the innumes
rabic instances of wasteful expenditure sanctioned by Parliament,
in, the Civil and Military Departments, cannot but know, that to
the want of such Reform they owe the burden of establishments.
wholly unnecessary, and of annual expenditure surpassing, in
a season of profound peace, that of former seasons of actual and
widely extended war. Well knowing these things, and anxious,
not less for the safety of the Throne than for that of their own
properties, liberties, and lives, the County of Suriey, while they
humbly implore your Honourable House to make • a Constitu-
tional Reform, so absolutely necessary to secure the benefit of
real representation, and .a vigilant controul over the public
money, declare in the face of all England, that they will never,
till that all-important object shall have been accomplished, cease
to use all the lawful means in their power for the obtaining of
such Reform."

Mr. H. TO*ICSEND—In seconding this petition he should
say but a few words, because he was convinced that distress pro-
duced reflection, and that reflection taught them, as it had him-
self, that there was no security for liberty, or fe, or property,
without a Reform in the Commons House of Parliament. It
was well known that man inherited froM his mother Eve the
infirmities of human nature; and this being the case it was riot
to be wondered at that the borough-mmgersi the sham repre-
sentatives Of the people; suffered themselves .to be caught by
ribbons, and by. baubles, and iri order to acquire them, or a
Peerage, support the Minister of the day, however mischievous
or unconstitutional might be his measures. Ha Minister wished
to act rightly by the people, the consequence would be, that he
Would lose a majority, as those Gentlemen would march to the
opposite side. Before the war, every able bodied man could
support his family, and ultimately became able to buy the cot-
tage which he inhabited, and this became a freehold; before that
time every cottager brewed iri autumn beer enough to last him
through the winter ; and he (Mr. T.), when out shooting often
partook of this beverage; but he could assure the Meeting if
he were now to go into the cottage, he should not be verywdling
to partake of that which they, as had been said in another place,
preferred—a dish of miserable, black, weak, Bohea.—( H ear,
hear !)—H e must again repeat, that he considered the present
miserable state of the working classes in this country to arise
from Parliamentary corruption alone, and that that is the filth
and dirtavhich defiles the silver spring from which England
ought to drink, and whose yawning mouth would ultimately
swallow up all the treasure of the realm.

Lord KING came foi ward amidst loud acclamations. When
they had last assembled in that place, it had been determined
to reject a Petition praying for the Relief of Agriculturat
Distress, because that petition had not been accompanied by
one fur Reform ; and that, be thought, shewed tint their
wish was for a perfect cure, and nut to patch or mead the old
disorder. He at that time wished for unanimity ; hut he con-
fessed when he saw the overwhelming majority by which the
former petition had, for the reason just stated, been rejected
—when he looked around him and saw so respectable a meet-
ing, and looked at them with feelings different from those
With which he was accustomed to look at what was called a
full House, be could not say that he regretted the former
rejection.
.When lie saw a full meeting like the present, he
knew that nothins.! would be agreed to but what was for the
benefit the errantry; but when he saw a full House, he, felt
that it indicated nothing but a determination to accede to the
pressing orders of the Minister by an overpowering majority
which he was satisfied no Minister could find in any County
Meeting. They were met for the.porpose of considering two
objects—Agricultural Distress and Parliamentary Reform—
and be shoOld trouble them Very shortly upon the first ques-
tion, as he.coosidered the other by far the most important.
They ail knew that distress was occasioned by excessive taxa-
tien, the fruits of a war, • during which the influence of the
Crown had become so great as to be almost irresistible. !t-
-ined even door worse—it had taken away that common sym-
pathy a Inch ought to subsist between the representatives arid
elie'constauent body. If Mr. Pill had, at the time that he
was stirring tip the country to prosecute the war, told them.
that the present distress would be the fruits of a glorious and
successful 1", be (Lord K.) thought it would be impossible
to persuade them to embark in such a lottery, and run the
risk of the prize. He now came to the next question, and the
meeting would allow him to state a few circumstances which
contributed to 'make the Parliament what it was: He be-
lieved the first blow was the introdUction of 45 Scotch Mem-
bers—M(ll who were properly called " the .Swiss of the
State"--,nien who receive. the patronage of Scotland in return
for their services in the House of Commons. • He would state-
to the meeting a citcumstance ,which shewed in,what light
these Members had been formerly viewed. Very shortly after
the Union, the; Secretary of State having been asked why a
certain measure had failed In the House of Commons, re-
plied, " The waters were out—the Scotch-. Members did•not
arrive." This shewed the dependence: which that Minister
had placed upon' men who, to say the truth, had never since
deceived any Minister.—(Hear, bear,!)—Within the last cen-
tury a new trade had sprung up, he meant the sale of seats,
which increased the influence of the Crown—which awed,
and was awed in turn by tho'se men—or, to use Mr. Grastan's•
expression, those " Proprietors of Parliament." (Hear,
hear !)—lndeed they did treat Parliament as their property,
and if reports be true, they made very hard bargains with
their customers. He would mention one report to sheoi the
opinion which these men held of the persons nominally send-
ing Representatives to that House. A Petition having been
presented complaining of au. undue return for the Borough

- . •. . .
of Whitehaven; Sir J. LOwther said •he wished to see the
names signed to the Petition; and on seeing some of which,
exclaimed—" The town is mine, I will turn them out—the
ground which produces their fund is mine—the air, they
breathe•is•mine—l can drain their well's and choke them.with
thirst—their fire is mine, for I possess all the coal-mines in
the neighbourhood.". Here was a man that made.out his
claim to the four elements—air, earth, fire, and water, and
it was not difficult to say -in what estimation he held the
beings . who subsisted by them., This man,. it was said, sent
orders to three of his Members to VA..: one way-s-and tit
tliree others to vote another'—and 'this when he was co-
quetting with a Blue Ribbon, -which had been since be-
stowed upon his .family. Fifty years had elapsed since
Lord Chatham had given his opinion ipso the subject of
reform., and nothing bad since occurred which rendered
it the less necessary. The Irish Union had not rendered it
unnecessary. The greater part ut the Irish Members were
indifferent to every thing which concerned England or Scot:
land—the cotrupt part of the English Members were ind ffe-
rent as to what concerned I.,:ngland, _lreland, or Scotland, and
the Scotch Members of every thing but what affected, them-
Selves, and their services were entirely directed to•that point.
—(Hear, hear !)—The nation was now arrived''at-t at-that pitch
that it bad a petitioning,: people and a confiding P,arliament.
It was this division of spoil among theMecolters of the House
of Commons that made them support taxation, and which
made that House, tint the admiration of surrounding nations,
but of sqrrounding Sovereigns, who.regretted their not hav-
ing so pliable an engine. It had been said that all classes,.
commercial, manufacturing, and agricultural classes, had a
virtual if not a. real representatimr. k-le, supposed he was
addressing a body Warmers,- who were in the habit of selling
their corn by sample. He would ask theist what would be
thought of them if they were to take a sample different front
the corn which they had for sale and sell by that? Would
the buyer be satisfied by their saying that it was a virtual if
not a real -sample ? Following up this he would say
there were in Parliament sampleS of contractors, of jobbers,
and of trading politicians, but these was one sample which
was rarely to be met with there-,ssa sample of an honest man.
—(Hear, hear !)—There was one class of men who; no &Mitt,
were well represented in Parliament, and who contributed to
the " collective wisdom," he meant the country Gentlemen.
Much as he knew of Parliarreitt he•had never seen that body
otherwise than bereft of their senses whenever it suited the
Minister to terrify them to suspend, or. to get rid of some
valuable privilege of the Constitution. It. was said that this
class now saw the necessity of doing something, but lie would
say that, although they might say so, they did not say so in
the proper place ; they spoke their minds in the Minister's
antichamber, instead of doing, so in the great Council of the
nation. That class had, no doubt, the power to compel re-
duction if they pleased, but they-were placed in an embarassed
situation, and it was this—if they wished to satisfy the people,
they roust support a reduction •of taxation ; but if they sup-
ported a reductiost of taxation, where would be the money to
pay themselves and their friends? Distressing as was this sis
tuation, yet they hadaccommodating consciences ; if the Mi-
nisters did not agree to a reduction, they went down to the
Heuse and voted in public for. that to which they had
objected in ••••• private. It was said some , reductions . had
been made. Why not have made these reductions three
years, nay, six years. ago ? Great curiosity had • been
I excited to know what plan the Ministers had . intended to
bring forward ; but if a person were to judge from the` state-
mem of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, no great reduction
of taxation could he expected. The plan now was before the
public, and the savings which were proposed to he made were
not out of the-establishment, butout of the public debt. It
was true there was a reduction of a shilling a bushel upon
malt, and it might be said that the Agriculturists had been
• cutoff with a shilling. Although there was a great and a
pressing demand on every side for a reduction, yet .Ministers
strained and tortured themselves fieshow that taxation could
not be the cause of the distress; and they said, that when,
taxation.was higher, the price of corn was higher, and that
cheapness was the cause of tiftdistress. But they forgot to
state t hat taxation operated on the raising of the corn, and
that the farmer would not regard the cheapness of corn, if
he could raise it at a loW'eXpence. The plan of the Marquis
of Londonderry was absurd s- and indeed the Noble Marquis
himself admitted it. „The loan which he proposed ought; if
any good were to he expected from a loan, never to he re-
turned. ',The Noble Marquis did. on this occasion, turn his
back upon himself. On this occasion a considerable altera- •
Lion had taken place in the tactics of that leader. On former
occasions his language was, " Let us come to issue, we will
take the sense of the House ;" but his language (hiring the
last week• Was, ‘4 Let us take time to consider,—dnn't agree -
to the proposition of the Honourable Gentleman opposite,—
wait until you hear mine ;" and then he only moved for pa-
pers, instead of taking, as usual, the sense or the House.—
This conduct.was adopted, because the Noble Marquis did not
think that he could depend upon his friends ; and be wished
to ascertain how far they would go, and what was the least
reduction which he must make. If it were the detertninatioti
of the tax-muster to reduce•as little as possible, it was- the
duty of the tax-payer to compel hint to reduce as touch as
possible. He shoald'not he surprised if sonic peeple were to
age. what good could be derived from a Reform in Parlia.
merit ? He would say to them, " You will gain every thing,
—you will preserve what is left,--this is the tithe to make a
start for your property; and the best way to secure that, is to
restore that cunstitution which has been impaired during the
last war." It was the pride of the British Constitution that
it possesseil the power of renovating itself. The Constithtion
was very sick at that moment ;- and he would wish them to
bring that power which it possessed to the test. Let us (con-
tinued the Nettle Lord,) in the lang•tage of this petition, say
that we never• Will desist until that object shall have beets ac-
complished.—(Cheers.)
Lord . ELLENBOROUGH.When be had last had the
honour of addressing that County Meeting, he had the lois-
fortime of having been in a small minority, hitt they heard
him with fairness, and he trusted, if the opinions which he
should,deliver today should be different to the opinions of
the majority, that they would bear him with the same fair-
ness and justice.—(Hear, hear !)—He aid justice to the fair,
honourable, and manly manner •iry which the mover of the
petition had addressed them. The difference between them
was not the object, but the mode of obtaining redress. They
all agreed, that the distress of the Agrieurtnrist was great
and unexampled. They all agreed in wishing for effectual
and immediate relief,, and what all wished to know was
,the
cause of the distress, in order to apply the remedy; hut his
difference with the •Honourable Gentleman whit proposed
this petition was this, he (Lord Ellenborough) differed with
him as to the cause, and as to the mode of relief. The
Honourable *Gentleman had told therif that taxation was
the cause of the distress, and had also •spoked of the fluc-
tuation of the currency, and to those be had attributed
a portion of distress, if an alteration in the currency were
the cause of the IoW price of corn, why; he would ask the
Noble Lord, had not manufactures fallen in the same propor-
tion. He was perfectly ready to. acknowledge that taxation,
bad increased the price of commodities, but be meant to say
this, that a removal of taxation would not • immediately pro-
duce immediate relief, or lessen the. prices. In 18!6, 18
millions of taxes had been taken off at once, and did prospe-
rity immediately return ? No, instead' of prosperity, it was
well-known that at no period was distress so intolerable as
during- the winter of 1816. He would suppose that six or•
seven millions of taxes were taken off and applied as a posi•
tire bounty on produte, no immediate relief wotild be afford-
ed. •It would not raise the price of a quarter of wheat more
than five shillings. Indeed they themselves, from the manner
in which they received the redaction of oar shilling per inishel
on malt, negatived the doctrine that immediate relief could be
afforded by any reduction-of taxes. The sum' remitted by tat- •
ing•off that duty Was 400,0001. and ,f the taking off that could
make no sensible difference, the taking off four times that sum
could not afford immediate and effectual relief. The Noble
Lord (King) had said that nothing was more difficult to he
found than the sample of an honest man its the House of !-
Coninnins. It Was to him a Matter of surprise to hear the
Noble Lord Pass•such a sweeping censure upon 160 of his •
own friends who hail seats in that Louse; and after what the
Noble Lord had said, with respect to the Scotch Members, be
thought one of the resolutions would be for a dissolution of
the Union which let in 45 such corrupt and unprincipled men;
but be would find one person representing a Scotch borough
exempt front the imputation of Joining Ministers; and who„
perhaps, that meeting world skew. was one of the most effec-
tive men in t hat• House—he meant Mr. Hume. The state of
Scotland must have been much improved since the Union,
when, instead of sending all to support Ministers, it sent such,
teen as he'had jiitt named ' • and he would beg leave to remind
the Noble Lord, that Mr. Fox, after having been defeated
in Weitmihster, an English popular borough,_ was happy
to find a retreat in a rotten Scotch borough,—(Disapproba-

PRICE SEVENPENCP:'

tion.)—HeLad said at first that all that seas desired WAS
fectual immediate relief. Now the petition said this was en
to be got by a Reform of the House of Commons. If that
were true, he entreated the meeting to consider. to whatat
distant day (even supposing every thing to turn out.as ,
might wish) they postponed• what they termed immediate;,.
relief. The Hon. Gentleman had told them that they wanted:
a clear and plain representation, and that nothing less wouh:
satisfy him. He had no doubt a great majority of t bent would
agree to some general plan, but that great difference of op:
nioti would exist as to the extent and nature of Reforia,,
he had no doubt. Did they think the same diffla
did not exist I:, other place:a among the friends dl/4f• Re--
form. Before relief could he exlecled from a -Reform
Parliament, it Bill should be brought in, all parties d•t
conOled, and supposing all this to he dune, and the bit.
passed,- yet the law could not come, irate operatien
atter a. general election, and consequently immediate re -
lief could not be bbtained, and without immediate
their distress must increase. .Even stipposing the Reform, di*
be complete, were they sure that they would find Member, ii
act according to the opinions of their Constituents ? If
,coo -
stitUenta had been deceived already, might they not, be d‘,-
ceived again ?—and he would beg leave to tell them, that th;:
Reform which was now .most popular, was very differei,'
flow that which Mr. Pitt advocated. They knew oii.ort.: -
nary questions the, Minister had a majority of two to oaa
How, we
.would ask, could a moderate Reform destroy tin.
majority ?—lt could nut ber done by ally Reform which woad.,
not place 230 innuaedilate patriots tit the room of omit
friends of Government. The moderate. Reform asked for .held to be absurd. Suppose, a Reform on the'hasis
Universal Suffrage—that Reform must be equal to the altera-
tion of the Constitution. They must be aware that Ireland.
sent but 100, and Scotland forty-five Members to the House
of-Cofnmons, and that these numbers were not in propor'..imi
to the population of these count' less The number of Meat,
tiers could not be increased, because the consequence wool:i
be, that discussion would be impossible. Well, then, with-
out any .increase of Members, Ireland, to have a fair iproa
portion according to her population, must be represent:it
by 216, and Scotland by 68, and England consequently
lose 139 Members. He entertained no prejudices against
the Catholics
.on account of their religion ;. and lie hay',..
and would always vote for their five admission to the be-.
nefits of the Constitution, because lie thought the num.-
ber of that religion whidbb at present would enter Parliament
would be small; and that they would enter Parliament with
feelings from which nu danger could be apprehended ; but
with reference to the basis of equal representation, 200 Ca-
tholics wrist immediately come into Parliament. He was
satisfied that the interests of the minority and majority
in Parliament were identified with the interest of the
agriculturist ;. and lie confidently looked forward to. a
measure which would give speedy and effectual relief.—
There was a country which had a Parliament on the
freest basis, war for a short period, and the cheapest of ail
possible Governments—that country was the United States
of America-, and yet, without war, without taxation, without
a fiuctuation'in currency, and with a Parliament on an equad
basis, greater' distress existed in that country than ever
existed here. After imploring the meeting to consider that
it was a House of Commons, constituted as at present, that
wrung from the Crown whatever liberties the subject et,
joya-d, the -Noble Loud moved the following amendment :—•

"1. Resolved, That we are, and long have been; in a state
of rnexampled distress, immediately arising from the lo Ns,
prices of Agricultural Produce, and the great expences at

cultivation.

"2. Resolt•ediThat we earnestly desire the H6use'of Cmr.
InOns to adopt nieaiures fur otir certain, effectual, andininie-

diztte relief.

" 3. Resiilved, That such certain, effectual, and immes
diate relief will nut, in our opinion, be derived from any of
the-measures.hithertO prOposed by the King's Ministers. • .
" 4. Resolved, That we implore the House of Commons to
enforce every retrenchment in the Public Expenditure, and
every. Reduction of 'Taxes which can be made consistently
with good faith, with the efficiency of our necessur,y esta-
blishments, and with the general prosperity of the State.
" 5. Resolved, That we hope the :llvnibers of the Home of
Commons will, on this occaswo, by their sympathy with the
people, and by the wisdom of their. measures, prove tlwm-
selves to be the real and worthy Representatives of the Na-
tion, arid not afford us cause to desire any changy in the
ancient constitutive of the House of Comr»ons.

" 6. •Resolved, That a Petition, founded upon the fort—
going Resolutions, he addressed to the House of Commons.

" 7. Resolved, That the following be the Petition:—
" To the Hotiourablet he Con►n►uns of the United Kingdom of

Great Britain and Ireland in Parliament assembled.
"The humble. Petition of the Freeholders, Copyholders,
Occupiers, and inhabitants of the County of Surrey,
the County Meeting assembled, Sheweth,
"That your Petitioners are, and lung have been, in a
state of• unexampled tlistress, immediately arising from t:::•
low price of agricultural produce, and the great expense; et'
cultivation.

"'feat your Petitioners earnestly desire your Honourabit,
House to adopt measures for their certain, effectual, and im-
mediate relief.

" That in the opinion of your Petitioners, such certain
effectual, and immediate relief, will nut be derived flow 'any
of the measures hitherto proposed by the King's MinisterF.
'• That your Petitioners implore your Honourable How.e
to•enforce every retrenchment in the public expenditure, ar‘i
every reduction of taxes which can he made consistently wilt
good faith, with the efficiency of our necessary establisl.-
..
ments, and with the general prosperity of the State. •
"That your Petitioners hope, that the Members of Four.
Honourable House will on this occasion, by their sympathy
with the people, and the wisdom of their measures, pr..r..e.
themselves to be the real and worthy Representatives of
Nation, and not afford your Peti•ioners cause to desire any
change in the ancient Constitution of the House of Commons.
" And your Petitioners will ever pray, &c. •
" B. Resolved, That this Petition be signed by the Flig!l
Sheriff on behalf of the Meeting.''
Colonel GAITSKKLL sei•onderfthe amendment.
Mr. DENxisoN opposed the amendment, and said the rip,
form which he would advocate was shorter Parliaments—te,S
expenses at elections—and the extension of suffrage tocippyholders and householders. . . .

ionin,.!T then addressed the •Nfetting, ana contended
the doctrine laid down by the Noble Lord (Ellenburough)
absurd upon the taco of it; and he proceeded to argue; tb,t
nothing less than a Reform in Parliament would produce Any.
effectual remedy.

Messrs. BENNET, MABERLY, and 1-1. SUMNER, severany ;;(;-
dressedlhe Meeting.
After.which the amendment was put and negatived.
The Petition was then proposed and agreed to; and ot-iti,e
question being put that it be presented hy the County Meth-
birs,' a verso!) named Leach, a cutler, proposed, as-
amendment, that Mr. Dennison alone should Fese;tt
Petition; which was put and agreed tp.
Thanks were then voted to the High Sheriff, rho...thea
solved the ?dieting at six o'clock.

NICHOLAS RIDLEY.--This eminent Divine
?
the early part of his life, was a zealous Pap:si ;
hut his having been afterwards patronised b
Cranmer proves that he must have Changed
sentiments, and favoured the Reformation. F4;'tel'i in his Abel Redivivus,' calls him anoth.4
Sabl ; yet his conversion could not have
quite so instantaneous, for he maintained
doctrine of Transubstantiation till the year 154 f:
when a complete revolution in his opinions rau,-r.
have taken place ; for, in his Disputation Wit h
the Roman Catholic Divines, on the subi,J.f.t. cr
Real Prestnice, he forced them to acknow'ked.z
that, according to their doctrine, Christ„'in
LAsT SCPPrit, 0111 Si have-heldhimseff in. /is
and. afterwards 'eaten himself. En 1554. 110 v..-
ever,-he reaped the fruits of his New FA H
a -glorious -Manner, by maintaining it uAtil.his
.latest breath, when, he was burnt alive, tozetil,;r
with Biihops Cranmer and Litimer, at Cm f,lrt:.