The Sun.
London, England, 1838-03-07 00:00:00

all its main features, because he took it for granted that this i hearty rejoicing of his Right Ilon. Friend that the question
question would not be discussed on trivial points or on trifling iliad been fairly brcught to issue, he (Lord Stanley) would
details. He trusted that it was not on such ground 3 that he have thought the bolder and fairer course would have been to
was to be called upon to pass censure upon her Majesty's move resolutions declaring that Government did enjoy the
Government.—( Hear, hear.) He apprehended that the Ones- confidence of the country.—( Cheer's.) Ile concluded
tion was, whether in the course of the Colonial affairs with that Ministers a ould take the course of saying, '"f he
which it had been the misfortune and eot the fault of the pre- motion of the Honourable Member for Leeds is open to a
sent Government that they had to deal—( Hear, hear)—V% he- technical objectiou ; there are objections deeply felt on both
ther in that course they had acted in such a rasnner as that it sides of the House to singline cut an individual Minister for
became that House to continue the confidence which they the censure of the House. We are all responsible alike, we
had hitherto reposed in them, or whether their conduct had declare that our Colonial policy is the brightest gem in our
been such that it was the duty of the House immediately to political diadem—( A leugh)—and we declare that there is
take steps to prevent the continuance of t'sat confidence ? The nothing we rejoice in so much as that the approbation cf the
Noble Lord (Lord Sandon) stated in his speech that lie House should be fully and fairly tested on our Canadian
moved his amendment very reluctantly and upon compulsion. policy." If they wished to meet the question fairly they
He (Mr. Labouchere) readily believed that the Noble Lord would make no technical objections, but would rejoice in an
Was serious.—( Loud cheers.) Ile firmly believed that the opportunity of meeting the charges against their policy.--
Noble Lord, and those immediately around him, had made ( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend in making his motion
this mation most unwillingly, and under strong compulsion. of censure against the whole Government—a motion not ex-
-( Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) He (Mr. tending over so large a geographical space as that of the
Labouchere) greatly mistook if that compulsion hail not come, Honourable Baronet, but
i referring to a case large in fact, al-
not from the benches on that (the Ministerial) side of the though not too large for investigation in all essential points—
House, but from the pressure from behind Loud cheers stated broadly the opinion the House entertained of Go-
from the Ministerial benches),—which was so extreme and so vernment, and challenged its Members to meet the
urgent that it was found impossible to resist it.—( Renewed question by fair discussion.—( Hear, hear.) But sonic Gen-
cheering.) He blamed neither the leaders of the great party tlemen said that the present was a strange time for mooting
opposite, nor any of those lion. Gentlemen. They were flushed the quest on. lie would answer for his Noble Friend—the
with what they considered certain recent victories.—(Opposi- motive fur the deaay of the motion was forbearance.—
tion cheers.) He thought it very natural that those Hon. ( Hear, hear, hear.) At the time when it was doubtful
Gentlemen opposite should spur on their leaders a little, and whether rebellion would not be immediately successful—when
insist upon this battle.--(Cheers From the Ministerial benches.) treason was looking more preposterous than any British sub-
He must say this far, that he considered it a great misforn. ject wished it to do, at the time when the Government had
tune that this country should be kept in a constant state of rendered it doubtful whether the efforts of all parties combined
uncertainty as to whether the Government was to stand or could preserve Canada to the Crown—they felt, on that side,
fall.—( Hear, hear.) Thinking this, as a member of the that all party questions must sink.—(llear, hear, and loud
House of Commons he did heartily rejoice that the question cheers.) They were invited to join in an address to the Crown
was fairly before the House.—( Loud cheers ) He was sure of loyalty and support, and they felt that, whatever responsi-
in anything be should say the Noble Lord (Lord Saadon) bility Government had incurred with regard to Canada, that
would not suspect him of going out of his way to make any- was not the time to throw any difficulties in the way of the
thing like a personal attack ; but ne must sty he had ob- servants of her Majesty.—( Hear, hear.) But new, if they
served with some surprise the attack upon his Noble Friend believed his Noble Friend, they had arrived at a time of great
( Lord Glenelg) proceed from that quarter.—(Cheers.) He tranquillity ; they were no longer:restrained by those considc-
( Mr. Labouchere) had for many years acted frequently and cor- rations, and, having given their support to the Crown to put
dially with the Noble Lord (Lord Sandon) on Canadian policy, down rebellion, they were fully at liberty to express their opi-
and however they might differ on any other subject, he did Ilion on the conduct which had tended to produce it. But, he
hope and believe that they entertained very much the same would ask, were we really in that happy position, with respect
opinions oil our Canadian policy at the present moment. to Canada, which had been so glowingly described ? Was
Recollecting, therefore, the part which the Noble Lord (Lord there nothing to apprehend, was peace restored, was order re-
Sandon) had taken on every occasion upon the affairs of the established, was insurrection quelled? If this were really so--
Canadas, he was surprised to hear the Noble Lord passing a if things were thus happily re-adjusted—where was the neces.
censure on Lord Glenelg's proceedings. If there was any one sity of resorting to such a strong measure as the suspension of
who he thought agreed in the general scope and temper of the Canadian Constitution? If we had conciliated the attach-
his Noble Friend's ( Lord Glenelg's) policy, it was the Noble ment and affections of the Canadians, where was the plea for such
Lord, judging from the Noble Lord'slarevious conduct. —( Hear, a proceeding ? His Hon. Friend who last spoke had alluded
hear.) lie could not help, therefore, stating that he was sur- to the Committee of 1828, and went back to even an earlier
prised at the motion of the Noble Lord, and at the time period, and entered into a discussion, not of the points at pro-
chosen to snake it.—( Hear, bear.) He could not help asking sent at issue, but of the conduct of the preceding Adminis-
why it was this address was not brought forward when all the (ration. It was not for him (Lord Stanley) to enter upon
documents which furnished the grounds of the attack were such discussions, or to defend the conduct of those Govern-
upon the table of the House, and why gentlemen opposite, if ments with which he had no connection. He would not,
they believed the conduct of the Government so culpable as however, thus pass by the observations of his Noble Friend
they appeared to think it, did not then express their sense of the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, who animadverted on the
that conduct?—(Cheers.) He could not suppose that the inconsistency of any junction amongst persons holding dif-
difference of their altered conduct bad arisen from the altera- ferent opinions.—(Loud cheers and laughter from the Opposi-
tion of circumstasces which had since taken place. That was tion, followed by counter-cheers from the Ministerial
a period of considerable alarm—( Cheers)—and of great re- Benches.) His Noble Friend had assumed a supposition, and
sponsibility.—(Renewed cheers.) Most threatening clouds hinted at a possibility which never could have entered into
at that time obscured the vision, and no man was clear-sighted any other imagination than his own, namely, that a june-
enoueh to predict what would be the issue of the impending tion was about to be formed between the Hon. Baronet
storm,' and he must say that the Honourable Gentleman oppo- the Member for Leeds and the Right Hon. Baronet the
site, in the course which they then took, shrunk from all respon- M ember for Tamworth.—( Laughter.) He (Lord Stanley)
sibility.—( Loud cheers from the islinisierial Benches, re- did not know, whether any such junction was on the lapis, but
i
turned from the Opposition side.) He fully agreed n the lie should like to ascertain from his Noble Friend opposite
expressions which had fallen from his Noble Friend, that the whether be (Lord Palmerston) intended to become a
House was to decide the question as to what had been the partner in the firm ?—( Roars of laughter, frequently renewed.)
cause of the unfortunate state in which Canada now was; If the Noble Lord had not such an intention perhaps he
but in order to come to a right decision it was necessary to would permit him to call to his mind that during a longer pc-
look a little further back, and to take a somewhat wider riod than memory could carry him back his Noble Friend
view than the Noble Lord had done. On a former occa- had formed one in every existing Cabinet. --(Renewed
sion, when he (Mr. Labouchere) had addressed the House, laughter.) His Noble Friend was accused of ineonsistencY
he had not troubled them with many observations on this for charging the present Government with neglect, and the
poiut, though he did not scruple to say that there was blame reason assigned was that the had made a similar charge
to be attributed to the colonial Government ; but at that against former Administrations. Surely, if ever there wan
period— a test of consistency it was to be found in the very accusation
made against his Noble Friend.—(Hear, hear.) They
were invited by the motion of the Hon. Baronet the Member
for Leeds to enter into a discussion with respect to the con-
duct of Government, and especially to that portion of it which
related to the Colonial Department. They did not feel them-
selves in a position to accede to the motion—neither did
they feel themselves warranted in meeting it with a nega-
tive.—(Hear, hear.) They were, therefore, compelled to,
come forward with a resolution of their own, condemnatory of
the ambiguous and irresolute conduct of the Governmentl
which, he would not say created the difficulties that existed
in the colonies, but which permitted them to ripen into redid
lution.—( Cheers.) They complained that Governmentdi
not exhibit sufficient firmness, vigour, and determination to
avert the calamities which had unhappily occurred.—(
Hear.)
His Right Honourable Friend opposite (Mr. Labouchere)
was mistaken with respect to the Bill of 1834, prepared by hire(
Lord Stanley). That Bill had never been referred to the
Committee appointed, on Canadian affairs. When he was asked
by a friend of his not now in the House, whether he intended
to refer the Bitt to the Committee be answered that such was
not his intention. Indeed he obtained leave to bring in the
Bill the same night.
An Hoer. MEMBER on the Ministerial benches here ex-
pressed his dissent.
Lord STANLEY begged pardon—he might have been
mistaken--( Ministerial cheers)—but he stated that night that
it was the intention of Government to go on with the Bill
without any reference to the Commit tee. —( Opposition cheers.)
It was true that several gentlemen, who did not think Go-
vernment sufficiently informed as to the state of Canada,
pressed him not to carry the Bill under the Committee re-
turned their Report. To that request he had acceded, but he
at the same time expressed his determination to carry the
Bile
should he remain in office. Before it was transmitted to the
Committee, however, he had ceased to hold the seals of the
Colonial-office. Those who succeeded asked him if lie had
any personal objection that the evidence given before the
Committee should be laid before Parliament ? He replied
had none if any good object could be thereby effected, a,"d
hoped it would show that Government had sedulously apphe
itself to remedy the Canadian grievances. From this pperiodit was that he dated the commencement of that irresolution.
imbecility, and ambiguity which had since so lamentably
terminated.—(Cheers. ) He hoped his Right Honourable
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer would excuse him if
he adverted to the communication which had subsequently taken
place between them. He did not intend to charge his Riglit
Hon. Friend with any personal intention of misleading Mfr.
Roebuck. Ile would not charge him with any violation in
promising money from the Treasury on the faith; of the colony
to pay the colonial officers. On the contrary, he would mak. e
the distinction between that, and taking it from the colonial
chest, which Mr. Roebuck refused to make—(Cheers, and
laughter)—but he must say that the language used by ins,
Put
the Hon. Friend to Mr. Roebuck was not such as to "`
the latter in full and clear possession of the views of the Go-
vernment with respect to (lie claims made by the colonies.--
(Loud cheers.) Ills Right Honourable Friend assured Mr.
Roebuck that on his accession to office he would adopt *
course of conduct with respect to the colonies widely diffe-
rent from that pursued by him (Lord Stanley) that lie held
the privileges of the House of Assembly in the same respect
that he held those of the Imperial Parliament ; that he woulds
not for any consideration interfere with the vested rights of
that Assembly ; and yet, in a week afterwards the Might
Honourable Gentleman proposed to defray the official sa-
laries of the colony out of the British Treasury, stating that
he would look to the colony for re-payment. As the elective
,C,aosuitiheed
ev:s.ansd u theet onflatilniespGroinvgeronmf tchnetdoisnputtheis, asklipeowiloitulfdrom3
slssha.tt
LSoomrde
sficonA.NNLlEENTßbsaadian—oTake
objecitt rionro 1828.
Lord The question
q
to the present time ?
uestion was
mooted in 1828 ; but the distinct answer was that no elective
Council would be conceded. He hoped that those who seer?
anxious for information cn that point would be satisfied with
that answer.—(Cheers.) In 1833 resolutions were passed ie
the House of Assembly, and an Address to the Crown, pray-
ing that the Legislative Council should be made elective. He
would merely direct the attention of the House to the 12th and
11th resolutions. In these were to be found the pith of the
demands of the House of Assembly. What did the Govern-
ment say in answer to those demands ? Did they at oneere"
ject the demand? Did they not, by hesitating and wavering,'
induce the House of Assembly to be more bold in its demand'
and more determined in insisting that they would be satisfies'
with nothing short of an Elective Leoislative Council
( Hear, hear.) Did the Right lion. the Chancellor
Exchequer ever plainly and fully express his opinion that 5,."
Elective Council would be dangerous to the state and tut"
version of the Constitution? He (Lord Stanley) did not
be-
lieve that he ever did. Though the Right Honovrable Gen-
tleman had not done so, the Noble Lord at the head of the
Colonial Department lied. It was therefore the fault of the
t
Government, and not of the Noble Lord whose conduct
had been called in question by the Honourable Barone,:
the Member for Leeds, if any doubt remained as to tim'a'
course of policy which it was intended to pursue. Was L?sce
Gosford at liberty to communicate to the House of Assets,'
the substance of these instructions ? No ; tut in four or
months after, when there was such a boast of the progresa,
which Government made in the affections and good will of
the Colonists by the conciliating tone which it had adopted,
all their imaginary hopes were at once frustrated by the un-
ef time
happy publicity given to these instructions by Sir F. Head.--
( Hear, and cheers.) Mr. Roebuck moved for copies of the
instructions given to Lord Gosford ; but the Under Secretarle
to the Colonies said it was not fit that they should be made
public. Mr. Roebuck, considering the conciliatory tone as-
sumed towards the Colonies, to the influence which the 11°T
and Learned Member for Dublin exercised over the Coupe"s
of the Cabinet, and still relying uoon that Hon. and Leartiec
Gentleman's assistance, withdrew his motion. Shortly after
i.
,
the instructious became too notorious, Mr. Roebuck saw that
had been duped, that he had been paltered with in a doubles
sense, and that prospects had been held out to him with resPeet
to the Government of the Colonies which were never in-
tended to be realised. What was the answer of Sir George
Grey, when asked whether the Constitution of Canada was
subject open to the inquiry of the Commissioners ? Thee
words were these—" It has been, indeed, assumed that
the
constitution of Lower Canada is not a subject of inquiry under
the instruction addressed to the Commissioners. This l aim
prepared to deny. To the fullest extent to which the present
Constitution of the Legislative Council has been alleged as an
evil, to the same extent has it been referred to the Corn:
missioners to report." Here was the whole question again at
sea.---( Cheers. ) Here was the question which was set
rest in 1834 again thrown as open as it was before—that
•ca.t
formed the fundamental point of the successful policy of tua

"Motos praastat componere fluctus."
It was the object of all parties to establish a calm, and to
restore tranquillity ; and they could then ill spare the time
to enter upon the cause of the evil.—(Opposition cheers.)
He was, however, aware that faults had been committed by
every colonial Minister, and he did not except the errors of
his own ft tends ; but he had thought that the intention of
every Minister since 1828 had been good, under the then
state which existed between the mother country and the
colony : he had not thought that it was right to criminate
either the one or the other; both had possibly been guilty of
some mistakes, which it was not at that time necessary to re-
count. Hitherto the year 1828 had generally been the start-
ing point in their discussions relating to Canada, because in
that year a Committee had been appointed, and a Report had
been made, and they had not looked into any of the circum-
stances which had arisen before the appointment of the Com-
mittee ; but if they looked strictly into what really caused the
present difficulties, they must not confine themselves to what
had taken place since 1828, and they must not quite dispose of
the previous circumstances in so summary a manner as they
had hitherto done.—(Hear, hear.) They had heard a great
deal about the taking of money without the consent of the
Legislature ; but before 1828, and down to that period, this
was done as a matter of course, year after year, without the
subject ever having been mentioned to Parliament.—( Cheers.)
He need not refer to other unconstitutional acts, such as the
dismisssing of militia officers, an act so unanimously con-
demned by the Committee of 1828, and so often mentioned
with reprobation in the different discussions in that House.
Ile had never heard the Right Hon. Baronet say one word
in the late discussions in favour of those acts of his Ministry.
He certainly had wished to hear from his Noble Friend
some indication of the great and marked difference with
regard to the affairs of Canada which would distinguish the
acts of Honourable Gentlemen opposite on their return to
power. Of this he had heard not one word, though he had
heard one intimation of the Noble Lord with great surprise—

he had heard with wonder the intimation that to the aban-
donment of the Bill proposed by the Noble Lord the Member
for South Lancashire, in the year 1834, was to be attributed
a great part of the evils of the present time ; he confessed
that he bad heard this statement with great surprise, be-
cause his Noble Friend ( Lord Sandon) was a member of the
Committee of 1834, to which was expressly referred the
consideration of the expediency of going on with that Bill.—
(" No, no I" from Lord Sandon.) Th Noble Lord was at
least a member of the Committee appointed when the Bill
was brought in, and which reported that the Bill should
not be proceeded with ; and he thought that the Noble
Lord had expressed the strongest opinion in the Committee
in favour of the course adopted, and he certainly had never
intimated to the Committee the opinion which he had that
night given with respect to the propriety of preceeding with
it. Another reason for the present motion he (Mr. Labou-
chere) had also heard with much surprise. His Noble Friend
had condemned the dilatoriness and procrastination of the
present Government, but he (Mr. Labouchere) had had the
pleasure of acting with his Noble Friend when Sir George
Murray was Secretary of the Colonies, of whom, though
they might differ in opinion, he (Mr. Labouchere) wished to
say nothing harsh, for ho thought that he was a valuable Mi-
nister, yet he must say that he was more dilatory and procras-
tinating than any Minister had been. The House had been
told of the great danger of delays ; but when Sir G. Murray
was Colonial Minister the first Committee was appointed, and
then was the time to remedy all evils, then was the golden
opportunity.—( Hear.) At that time the hopes of the Cana-
dians were warm, and then should they have struck the blow ;
but ere anything was done, Sir G. Murray suffered four years
to elapse.—( Loud cheers.) His Noble Friend seemed to have
diligently looked through the blue papers on the table, and he
(Mr. Labouchere) hoped that lie had not overlooked the one
which showed the manner in which Sir George Murray, when
Secretary of the Colonies, had treated Sir James Kempt, who
was a most excellent Governor, and had averted the misfor-
tunes which at that period hung over the colonies. Sir James
Kempt complained in emphatic language of the delays which
had taken place in the Colonial Office, and when at length lie
received instructions he was obliged to put them into the fire,
and to write home to say that if be had acted upon them, he
would have thrown the whole colony into confu-ion.--(Loud
cheers. He (Mr. Labouchere) might go on much longer in
giving good reasons for stating that the difficulties of Canada
were not to be attributed to the heads of Government
against which his Noble Friend now directed his censure, but
it was nut necessary for him to detain the House upon them.
The Hon. Member resumed his seat amidst loud cheers.
Lord STANLEY said lie had risen earlier in the course
of the debate than lie should otherwise have done in consc- •
quence of some observations which had fallen from his Noble
Friend opposite, respecting a measure in which he (Lord
Stanley) was coecerned in his public capacity. He could not
let the present opportunity pass by without immediately setting
his Noble Friend right with re;peet to his recollection of the
facts of the case. But, in the first place, he would take the
opportunity of observing on the expression of an Honourable
Member opposite, who was pleased to say that at length the
veil in which Members on hit (Lord Stanley's) side of the
House had hitherto shrouded their dignity had been cast
aside. That Hon. Gentleman appeared to complain that
they (the Conservatives) had taken the House by surprise, in
proposing the :intendment of his Noble Friend (Lord Sandon.)
Mr. CA BO UC H E RE. —No, no.
Lord STANLEY.—If he did not complain of surprise, why
allude to any veil of mystery ?—( Hear, hear.) What were
the facts of the case? An Hon. Baronet unconnected with
that side of the House, without any communication with it,
so far as he (Lord Stanley) knew, without any consulta-
tion directly or indirectly—( Hear, hear, from Sir Wil-
liam Molesworth)—gave notice of his inteinion to bring
before the House a question involving the political charac-
ter of one of the servants of her Majesty. He gave this
notice, and, by a call of the House gave it more than usual
solemnity, and the terms of his notice intimated distinctly
that it was to the colonial policy of Government with re-
ference to a colony at present in a most critical and delicate
situation the motion was principally intended to refer. If
that motion had stood by itself he (Lord Stanley) for one
should have felt extreme difficulty an 0 the manner in which
he should give his \ste,
and the course lie took, and time of
the Gentlotnen who differed in opinion, must in a great Inca-
sure have been regulated by the course of the gentlemen op-
posit. It was possible that the Government might have
proposed such au amendment as could have received support
Iran a majority of the House. It was competent for Govern-
ment to move counter-resolutions.—(Hear, hear.) And,
looking to the tone of triumph already assumed by his Noble
Friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, looking at the mam,
tier in which he called the scene of revolt and disorder the
, gem of their colonial poliey—(A laugh)—looking at the