The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-08 00:00:00

by Catholic constituencies on the mere ground of their cha-
racter ; for their honour, their wisdom, and their judgment
(all of which qualities I dare say the majority of them possess)
vithout any distinct and uncompromising profession of political
faith ?. I have now, Sir, stated, perhaps at more than sufficient
length the reasons which have induced me not only to concur in
the views of my Hon. Friend, but to undertake the task of sub-
tnittin&,, to the nous: a proposition which embodies the views
of himself and those with whom he acts. 'I hese gentlemen
avho arc opposed to these views can have no reason to complain
of that Aid) others may regret, that the task of mooting the
question was not placed in other hands.—( Hear, hear.) It now
only remains for me briefly to touch upon that branch of the
subject, into the details of which, this perhaps is not the time
to enter, but when I lay before the House a proposition which,
if it succeed, would render nugatory the propositions of the
Government, it would hardly be respectful to them or to the
House, to omit all statement of the mode in svhich those with
whom I act would be disposed to s.Apply the deficiencies we
should then create. I confeAs I see none of the difficulties
connected with this branch of the subject which so frequently
attend legislative changes of extensive application. The
classification of the various objects' which leave either been
mearlit or a:arsine:l by the institution of corporate Govern-
ment, is a simple and obvious one. exclude on this
occasion the conSaleration of the political and party pur-
poses for which the contemplated powers may have been
created, or to which they have been since diverted. The con-
flicting theories on these subjects 1 do not propose to argue.
It is sufficient for me, without either proving- the existence of
those purposes, or entering into their justification or con lem-
nation, to feel that these are no longer to be attained in favour
of one party, and ought not to be sought in favour of another.
The real and natural objects of corporate government appear
to me to be these—the administration of justice ; the control
and direction of that police force, whatever it may be, to which
the protection of the person and of property is confided ; the
administration of corporate property; and the regulation of
those other not unimportant matters which concern the health,
the comfort, and the convenience of the community—the light-
ing, the paving, the draining, &c. For the due regulation of
these, it appears to me that the extinction of corporate authority
will not create the smallest difficulty. To the attainment of
some, it appears to me that in Ireland that extinction will afford a
favourable opportunity and direct assistance. I propose that
those towns and cities, now counties, should remain counties
of towns and cities ; that they should, as now, have their
sheriff, but that that sheriff should be appointed by the Crown
as the county sheriff is at present.—( Hear.) By that officer,
so deriving his functions, the grand and petty juries will con-
tinue to be summoned. The other cities and towns will be
subject to the jurisdiction of magistrates appointed by the
Crown, and will be under the county sheriff and the ordinary
parochial authorities. As to corporate property, it appears to
my Right Hon. Friend and myself that for the present, it
would be expedient to vest it in a Commission to be appointed
by the Crown, to be considered as a temporary arrangement,
and with a view of appropriating, under the sanction of Parlia-
ment, the corporate funds of each town possessing corporate
property to its municipal purposes. But the rrention of this
branch of the subject brings under consideration one item
of that property which I think, well deserves a separate
consideration and special provisions. I allude to cor-
porate tolls. lam not aware that the attention of the
Reformed Parliament has been specifically called to that
great subject, the features of which it is unnecessary to
particularise. Irish Members—but I would implore those
gentlemen from England, who have no experience of
that system to give their attention to the report of a com-
mittee of Inquiry, -which did not, I believe, take evidence,
and to the evidence which was taken by another—and I think
they will agree with me, that no greater substantial benefit
could be conferred on any community in Ireland, than the re-
moval of this exaction from its industry—( Hear, hear)—than
the stifling of this perenn!al source of personal violence, per-
jury, and violation of the law. I believe that this wretched
mode of exaction, one which, if zonducted with deceney, is
not inconvenient of application, and not opposed to the facile
interchange of the articles of daily subsistence, has proved a
secure source of the revenue which does accrue to corporate
towns, and of which I am not aware it is proposed to deprive
them under the present Bill. I believe that resistance to
these corporate tolls in every possible shape of violence and
evasion has become habitual, and that party spirit has, as
usual in Ireland, lent its adventitious aid in their case to the
natural impatience of a confined, anomaldus, and 1 may say
impracticable, system of pecuniary imposition. I have not
looked upon this subject as some, for whom I have much re-
spect, have frequently looked upon it, in that separate point
of view which confines itself to considerations of religious
difference. That danger to Protestant institutions should
be anticipated from any measure which opens new fields to
political agitation, I for one cannot but anticipate or appre-
hend, but I know that religious zeal may be prone to aggra-
vate those dangers. It is not essential to the correction of
every evil which I dread as contingent upon this measure,
that party difference should either universally or generally
take a sectarian turn. It is sufficient for my argument, if the
inquisition into political, and not into religious, creed should
invariably attend the candidate for municipl office. I have
said nothing to arouse the excited fears, or exaggerate the
apprehensions of Irish Protestants ; but if these fears are ex-
cited, and if they can be soothed without a sacrifice, I am
satisfied that his Majesty's Government will not, at least,
think, that a reason for preserving in the measure which ex-
cites, or against adopting a course which may remove them.
There may be those, not within these walls, I trust, who would
see these fears with satisfaction, who would chafe on being
checked in their progress to what they conceive a triumph. Such
I would implore to call up more generous feelings to their aid
to consider the condition of their country beyond the gra-
tification of the moment, to reject the barren laurels of petty
e'estion triumphs, and seek for the better reward which attends
the sacrifice of long cherished feelings of hatred and displea-
sure. You have interposed the resolutions of your Parliament
and the paternal advice of your Sovereign to exhort—to cau-
tion—to restrain. That call has been answered as it deserved
and you had a right to expect; beware how you do that which
may mar the best results of your efforts—beware, lest indi-
rectly by your present measures, by substituting a new exclu-
sion for that you destroy, by giving a legal sanction to change,
or an averted triumph to party, you make martyrs of those from
whose hands you have struck the instruments of exclusion, and
convert what you allege to have been an intolerant faction into
a prescribed or persecuted sect. 'I he Noble Lord
,concluded
by thanking the House for the patient attention with which they
had listened to the observations he had felt it his duty to urge
on the present occasion, and by moving that the Committee on
the Bill for the Regulation of Municipal Corporations in Ire-
land be empowered to make provisions for the abolition of such
Corporations, and for such arrangements as may be necessary,
on their abolition, for securing the efficient and impartial admi-
nistration, and the peace and good government of cities and
towns in Ireland.—( Cheers. )
Mr. LE RRO Y rose to second the motion of the Noble
Lord. He had looked in vain through the Bill for any ex-
planation of the principle upon which the measure was founded.
Adverting, then, to the provisions of the measure of his Ma-
jesty's Government, it appeared that there were 117 places
visited by the inquisition, by courtesy styled commission. Of
these 117, 67 were selected by the Bill of last year as being
worthy of retaining in them the new system of incorporation.
• Upon what principle the remainder of the 117 were excluded
he (Mr. Lefroy) was at a loss to conceive. It had not been
stated, either by the late or the present Attorney-General,
what was the principle by which they were governed when
they allowed no less than 50 of the 117 to wallow in all the
abomination in which it was alleged they existed ?—(,Hear.)
In the present Bill, however, only 54 places were selected for
the purposes of introducing into them the new system of in-
corporation. Here was another inconsistency, which left
him at a still greater loss to discover what was the prin-
ciple. which influenced his Majesty's Government in the
framing of this measure. Why in the present Bill are
only 54 plaeea selected for the new system of incorpora-
tion, whilst in the measure of last year there were no less
than 67. —(Hear, hear.) No principle was suggested—
no reason given in the speech of the Right Hon. the At-
torney General for this alteration. Then with respect to
the fifty-four selected, he could not find any uniform
principle pervading the measure as applied to them. With
respect to the eleven first, which constituted the subject mat-
ter of schedules A and 0, the House was told that the princi-
ple applied to them was the principle of population—that
where the population did not exceed 20,000, and was not less
than 15,000, they were to have the advantage of the new sys-
tem of incorporation.—(Hear, hear.) Now, if the principle
of population were held to be applicable to schedules A and
B, he wanted to know why the same principle was not applied
to schedule C. But what was the fact with respect to the re-
maining forty-three places included in schedule C ? 'I here
were in Ireland eighteen places, containing more than double
the average population of eighteen of those in schedule C.—
(Hear, hear.) Amongst the eighteen places omitted there
were thirteen which were included in last year's Bill, of which
Dunnarvon was one. The Attorney-General would no doubt
be able to inform the House upon what principle this was done.
The average property of the boroughs in schedule C was 120/.
a yds-, and there were seventeen of the forty-three with no
property at all : and three of them had 9/., 12/., and 15/. a
year. Upon what principle of justice then, he asked, were
these boroughs to be burdened with the enormous c x)enses
which was sure to be entailoli by this new system of incorpo
ration.—( Hear.) There was, he contended, no objection that
existed to the old system of self-election which was not equally
applicable to that now proposd. Ode great objection to the old
system was its exclusiveness. He admitted that under the change
of policy which had been of late years introduced into the ad-
ministration of affairs in this country, this system of exclusive-
ness Blight not to be maintained ; but be should be allowed to
say, on behalf of the Corporations of Ireland about to be
abolished under this stigma, that it originated igvith their
charter, that it flowed necessarily from their constitution. He
admitted that under the recent system of policy adopted
these countries, it was no longer prudent to maintain a prin-
ciple of exclusiveness--( Hear, hear)—and that was the very
ground upon which he was opposed to this Bill. Supposing
that the present Corporations had been injuriously exclusive,
was that any reason why they should be supplanted by another
system much more exclusive in its operation ?—( Hear, hear.)
Would not the fifty-four new Corporations, with all the sore-
ness and hitter recollection of what they considered a long
series of oppressions, retaliate by the unanimous .adoption of
that very system of exclusiveness of which themselves so much
complained. He contended that it would be impossible for
any Protestants to obtain admission into one of these fifty-four
Corporations, which would become so many rendezvous for the
agitators who calculated on rendering them completely subser-
vient to their purposes. He did not mean to speak this at all
offensively, but he could not help apprehending that this mea-
sure would increase that influence, and add. too, to another power
which was overspreading Ireland—he meant a power of a reli-
gious nature.—( Hear.) It was fearful to contemplate the ad-
ditional facilities that would be afforded for agitation, which
could only terminate in England, as well as Ireland, calling