The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-08 00:00:00

BENEFICES PLURALITIES BILL.

The House then reeolved itself into Committee on this Bill, com-
mencing with Clause 21.
Mr. COURTENAY opposed clause 22. If the clause were sufTered to
remain as it at present stood, it would operate with great injustice to
many individuals.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could not agree to the proposal.
Sir E. SUGDEN was favourable to the principle of the amendment,
but he thought it might be better to postpone the consideration of it.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL considered it would be desirable to post-
pone the clause.
Mr. HUME asked whether it was expedient to allow clergymen
to keep boarding houses, an oecupation which involved a more constant
estrangement from the religious duties of a clergyman than any other.
After a few observations flout Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Hume,and Colonel
Sibthorp, the clause was postponed.

Clause 23 was agreed to after a few observations from Mr. Hume and
Colonel SIBTIIORPH.

Clauses 24, 25, and 26, were also agreed to.
On clause 27 being put, which provides for certain exemptions from
residence,

Sir It. INGLIS called the attention of the House to a petition from
the Dean and Sub-Dean of Christ Church College, Oxford, and moved
their exemption horn the operation of the Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL refused to make any exemption of this sort.
The House divided, when there appeared :
For the amendment
Against it
Majority 93

The Marquis of CHANDOS then moved the exemption from resi.
dence of the masters of certain large public schools, but the names of
which we did not accurately hear, as the Noble Lord only spoke in a
low tone across the table.

The amendment was supported by Mr. Praed, Mr. Estcourt, Mr. Gaily
Knight, and Mr. Goulburn, and opposed by Lord John Russell, Mr.
Slaney, and other Hon. Members.
The gallery was then cleared and the House divided, when the num-
bers were—

For the amendment
Against it
Majority

Lord J. RUSSELL proposed the insertion of a proviso in the clause
extending the exemption with respect to residence to the masters of the
East India College.
Mr. HUME feared that this would apply to the masters of all the pub-
lic schools. _ _

Lord „I:RUSSELL denied that the proviso would extend beyond the
masters of the particular school mentioned in it.

The motion was then agreed to.

Mr. HAVES said that as they had agreed that the blank should be
filled up with the word " one" he thought there should be some limita-
tion with respect to the amount of the benefice to be held in addition to
the mastership; he would therefore move that the value of suck a bene-
fice should not exceed 5001.

The Committee divided, and the numbers were—
For the motion
Against it
Majority
Mr. LIDDELL (we believe) proposed that the population of the
parish held under huch circumstances should not exceed 3,000.
After some conversstion the amendment was withdrawn, Lord John
Russell observing that he would consider the subject of the amendment
at a future stage.

Mr. HUME said that as the clause, as it stood, would allow the masters
of Eton, Winchester, and Westminster schools, and the Warden of the
College of Durham, to hold any benefice, even though of the annual
value of 4,0001. or 5,0001., he felt it be his duty to move the exclusion
of the clause altogether.

Mr. GOULBURN moved an amendment, to the effect that the ex-
emption in favour of nonresidence contained in the clause should be
extended to proctors, librarians, public orators, and registers.
After a short conversation,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he had no objection to extend the exemp_
tion to the office of proctor.
The word proctor was accordingly agreed to be inserted.
Mr. GOULBURN then proposed the insertion of the words, "public
orator."

After a few words from Mr. Es'mour' and Mr. GORDON,

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL objected to the amendment. If they
wanted to extend the exemption to the public orator this office ought
to have been included in the 27th clause. It was necessary, moreover,
that the public orator should attend constantly during Term, though
only during a short time each day.
Mr. GOULBURN said, in reply, that they had not included the
office in clause 27, because they were anxious to reduce the number in-
cluded in the general exemption.

The Committee divided—
For the amendment 3O
Against it..
'Afajority —22

Mr. HUME wished to ask whether there was to be any limitation to
the number of Chaplains to the Queen or the Royal Family ? He had
heard that at one time, during the reign of George IV. there were no less
than 52 chaplains.
Lord J. RUSSELL, said that the exemption extended only to persons
whilst in the discharge of their duties. It was impossible that there
could be fifty-two engaged in the discharge of duties at the same time,
and the exemptions would only extend to those engaged.
On the question that the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill,

Mr HUME moved the addition of a proviso, to the effect that every
incumbent exempted from residence by virtue of his office should give a
notice of his absence in writing to the churchwardens of the parish, who
should cause the same to be posted in a conspicuous position on the
church walls, for the information of the parishioners.
Lord J. RUSSELL objected to the proposition, which was quite un-
necessary, as the schedule in the Bill contained a number of questions
which would show the cause of absence in the cases stated.

Mr. HUME said he thought the parishioners had a right to this in
formation. By a late return it appeared that there were 1,016 clergy.
men absent from their several parishes without license.

The Committee divided.
For the clause
For the amendment '
Majority for the clause

On Clause 29, -
Sir 11. INGLIS moved as an amendment that the word " five" be
be substituted for " six" in this Clause.

Lord J. RUSSELL objectedito this amendment.
Mr. EAST saw no reason why persons holding prebends should be
placed In a worse position, than other Clergymen.
After a few words from an HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not
learn, the gallery was cleared for a division. The House then divided—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority

42

The Clause as amended was then agreed to.
Clauses 30, 31, and 32 were agreed to.

On Clause 33,

Mr. FRESHFIELD moved as an amendment that power should be
given to Bishops to permit nonresidence in case of illness either of the
Clergyman, his wife, or child.
Sir 8.. INGLIS sincerely approved of this amendment.
Lord J. RUSSELL felt extremely sorry that he must oppose the
amendment. The words proposed as an amendment by the Hon. Member
were in the former Act, and it was their bad effects that now influenced
his opposition.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Hume.) He felt sure that
while illness or incapacity could be proved there would be no difficulty
in getting permission from the Bishop. But as there were some Clergy.
men with whose wives neither Devonshire nor Northumberland, the
fens of Lincolnshire, nor the mountains of North Wales, would agree,
if their illness was made an excuse fur non-residence, he would oppose
the motion.
Colonel SIBTHORP said that he heard the remarks of the Noble
Lord with great regiet ; he was shocked to find the Noble Lord pos-
sessed of no more feeling for Clergymen. His Lordship was a child of the
Church himself, and ought to have more feeling for the Clergy.—(A laugh.)
The amendment was not pressed, and the clause was agreed to, as
were also Clauses up to Clause 41 inclusive.

On Clause 42 being proposed, requiring Clergymen to answer certain
questions put by the Bishop,
Sir R. H. INGLIS objected to the words " together with such other
questions as may from time to time be settled and directed by her Majesty
in Council," as being of too inquisitorial a nature.
Mr. GOULBURN was also opposed to the words, as they gave power
to Government to put any questions which they may think fit.
Mr. HAWES did not like so extended a power, and hoped the Noble
T ord would agree to the omission.
' T RUSSELL did not see why the words should occasion such
would not hesitate to omit them.

'lll6 words were then struck out:
Mr. HUME said there was no penalty attached to the refusal.bf an
answer, and proposed that the stim of 101. should be the penalty.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL objected to the inapesitioit of a penalty,
as the answers w nild, in some cases, implicate the parties, Sueh a pro
keVding WOttid have too much of a Star Chamber character.
After f. few ireffls !Oho Lord Ea RINGTON and Sir H. VE RNEY in favouf
of the amendment,
Mr. GOULBURN said the refusal to angWei: i;'601(1 it to)ce lead to a
full and strict inquiry on the part of the Bishop, but it was not rlght to
compel a pei.7,9n to answer a question which might, perhaps, criminate
himself.
The Committee then divided, when there afißtifed--
For the amendment
Against it
Majority against the amendment --77
The Clause was then agreed to.
Clatises down to 46, with some verbal amendments, were then agreed to.
The Chairman reported progress and the House resumed,
SHERIFFS' COURT (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The Hotise Went into Committee on this Bill and several Clauses were
agreed to. Tile Bill Was then ordered to be reported,
COURT OP SESSION (SCOTLAND).
On the motion of the LORD-ADVOCATE the report of the Court of
Session (Fieotland) Bill was further considered.
Several verbal amendmmts were made, and variou6 clauses of the Bill
were altered.
The Bill then passed through Committee, the Chairman reported pro.
gresi, and the House resumed.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of,and the House ad-
journed at Half-past Twelee.