The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-19 00:00:00

FACTION UNMASKED.

" The will of the people once known, it must be prevalent.
It would be dreadful indeed if there was any power in the nation
capable of resisting its unanimous desire, or even the desire of any
very great and decided majority of the people. The people may
be deceived in its choice of an object ; but I can scarcely conceive
any choice it can make, to be so very mischievous, as the exist-
ence of any human force capable of resisting it.
to the Buckinghamshire Elcctors, 1780. "—Burke's Letter
The factious conduct of the Opposition, on Tues-
day night, did not in the slightest degree surprise
uis. Scruples about means are not to be expected
of own who have no scruples about oliycts. It may
amaze us to learn that Mr. BliPtl has resorted to le-
vying contributions on the high road; but knowing
that such is his pursuit, it does not amaze us to learn
that he fought tooth and nail with the officers of
justice. No one that snatches a bone from a dog's
jaws reckons on good manners, and the punc,ilious
government of the disappointed tooth. A booty is
a thing which neither men nor dogs will surrender
without a desperate struggle, per fe-c rvut ntfas, for
possession. People pay a very undeserved compli-
ment to the borouglimongers, when they wonder at
the extremities to which they carry their factious
hostility. It were strange, indeed, if their conduct
was better than their cause. The cause is booly.
and it is defended as booty is commonly defended,
not with more scrupulousness than it \VHS acquired
with. It is an affair with the constable. The gen-
tlemen will not be handcuffed without kicking foully.
The power of moving the adjournment of the House,
and dividing on it, is one which might be used by
any four Members, so as to stop the political machi-
nery of the country. Two and two, who watched
and slept, and moved and seconded lii turns, might
prevent the course of the most necessary business,
and there would be no constitutional resource but in
a dissolution of Parliament, which would send such
persons to the judgment of the country, to be visited
with its resentment, if factious, or supported, if the
ritject justified the obstruction. But in an Unre-
formed Parliament a dissolution might not allow of
the redress, one way or the other, by means of the
public judgment. Suppose the Members were Mem-
bers for Gatton and Sarum; bow could they be re-
movable for the most wicked and wanton obstruction
of public business. What but revolution could cast
them out, and free the political machinery from its
dead lock ? It would be a case of calculus in the
State. This is an additional argument for Reform,
illustrated by the recent conduct of the faction ; for
without Reform it is clear that four wilful Members,
responsible to no constituency, might paralyse the
Government of the country, and that the (Ilse
would be without remedy. What would he the
value of the Constitution, incapable of expelling this
evil ; and the Constitution as now vitiated by rot-
tenness in representation is incapable of disposing of
such a mischief. With all its boasted elasticity, it
could not fling off the pest of four factious men once
established in the Legislative power, by purchase of
a couple of rotten boroughs. No matter with what
flagrantly mischievous objects and effects, the Mem-
bers for Gatton and Sarum stopped the public busi-
ness; by no Constitutional means could they be dis-
pus'essed, for their right of moving adjournment
would always be exercised in bar of any attempt to
cast them out of the Legislation : and, as they had

no constituencies capable of resenting the public in-
juries, they would be unaffected by dis,olutions.

- -
We remarked, in our last number, upon the joyful
acclamations that burst from the Opposition on the
mere use of the words " buy up !" in Sir James
Mackintosh's speech, and the cry of " money,
money !” from some Members. Those simple terms
acted as the " open Sessanti .!" to the robbers' cave,

and unlocked the secret of their hearts. Who can
fail to perceive, that if" buying up" had entered into
the Reform project, the amount of objection would
have been wonderfully reduced. The market-price
of a borough has been, we believe, about 40,000/.
Now let us suppose, that instead of unconditional
disfranchisement, it had been proposed to give
compensation of 100,000/. for each borough, and
20,000/. to the sitting Members : in this case
what would have become of the Con,titutional
apprehensions ? The plan would not have been
so bad, though the industry of the country had been
crushed to squeeze out the means of ear: ying it into
effect. The sordid considerations s; hich really de-
termitic the opposition to the Reform Bill will ap-
pear, notwithstanding all the arts of deceit, and the
subtlety of false pretences. The language is to
describe the Btll as a measure of confiscation, or
spoliation, and to represent electors as deprived of a
property which they have not forfeited by any mis-
conduct. The very fact, however, of the con‘er-
sion of the franchise to a property works its for-
feiture. Wherever the franchise :s used as a trust
for the good of society, the withdrawal of it for a
better arrangement for that object, will not be felt
as a hardship : wherever, on the other hand, it is
turned to profit, it is vitiated, and should be cut
away, according to the acknowledgment of all
parties. Mr. Connolly, however, plainly says, that
" the elective franchise is as valuable to any
imam as any property he can passes., and no-
thing can justify its spoliation;" and Mr. Att-
wood asks—" \Vas it ever before proposed to
the Commons of England to take away the
eights, not as in the present Bill, of the third
of the electoral body, but €%en of a single set
of electors, except after compensalion, or as the
punishment of convicted crime ?" Compeusstion
compensation for what ? How is the claim to be
stated without infamizing the claimant ? The right
of tde elector is vested in him in right of society;
extended to bins, not as a personal privilege, but
fer the benefit of society, and is of course subject to
any arrangement for the better furtherance of the
object. The privilege of voting at elections would
be considered like the duty of serving on Juries, had
not the perception of its proper nature been coto
founded by abuse. Before corruption made the
franchise a propel ty, it was deemed onerous. Elec-
tors have precisely as much cam to compensation
as unpaid Magistrates would have were our system
of rural justice reformed : the answer would be,
" Show us how ssou made your gains, and we will
show how you deserve the pillory. It is clear that
the clamour of " spoliation," " confiscation," &c.,
all implies abuse of trust, and illicit profit. But the
persons who hold this language will, in the very
next breath, coolly assert that, " they are ready to
visit with disfranchisement any electors whose ye.
nality is proved. God forbid that they should be
enemies of Reform—thry are advocates for Reform,
and oily enemies of injustice—they would dis-
franchise for bribery, arid merely watt the
bribery to be proved before they disfranchise."
They profess their readiness to punish bribery, with-
out which there cannot be nomination ; and they
contend, at the same time, that nomination is east n-
tial to the safety of the Constitution ! What a maze
of contradiction ! They would punish the means of
an effect they pronounce indispensable to the safety
of the State. They would punish voters tainted
with bribery; and they would give compensation to
voters deprived of the franchise which can only be
made profitable by bribery. Further, so nice are
these men in justice, they must have proof of every
thing—proof that there is proof. To disfranchise
Appleby without trial at bar, and counsel in defence,
is pronounced horrible. In the time of Lord Castle-
reagh, of blessed memory, certain districts in Eng-
land were declared disturbed, and subjected to laws
of particular severity : where were the scruples of
these Tory gentlemen when they suffered those
places to be so affected without receiving evidence
in their behalf at bar ? Why were not Lancashire
and Durham heard by counsel ? Why were the Lud-
dites judged without defence ? Why did legislation
proceed upon representations of their offences, which
they had no opportunity of rebutting ? And to im-
pose severe laws is surely more harsh than to with-
draw privileges. When the Habeas Corpus was
suspended, why was not the whole country heard
by counsel at bar ? Why was society supposed to
be extensively affected with sedition, and its most
valued rights withdrawn, without defence and
proof of the alleged facts ? A new police was lately
established. Why did not a Mr. Sadler, or Sir
Robert Inglis rise, and say, " Prove there are
thieves, before you chart! the town with this ex-
pensive improvement. I",u say -pockets are Pickcd

in the Strand, houses broken open in the Regent's
Park, people knocked on the head with blud-
geons, and robbed in broad daylight. I have
no knowledge of the truth of these stories. I will
not brlieve such things are done in. a city wh• re
there are churches, and in a country blessed with an
established church. Let us examine the folks of the
Alpha Cottages touching burglary and bludgeons;
and call the Strand to answer before us by counsel
as to pickpockets. Soames and Ikey Solomons are
talked of; but God forbid we should legislate with
reference to imputations on them unproved—let
'hem be heard by counsel at the bar. Before we
establish a police, let it be proved that there are.
thieves." The answer would be, Legisla-ion must
proceed upon representation of facts of sufficient ge-
neral notoriety ; and legal evidence is not necessary
to show that Sarum is rotten, awl Soames roguish,
—that Appleby is corruptible, and Ikey Solomons
not particular as to ownership in his purchases of
property. There is, indeed, one cause for which a
nation might justly demand to be heard by its ad-
vocates at the bar of the Commons, and that is to
defend itself against unauthorised taxation; but its
vo:ce on this subject is so potent, and has been so
loudly and distinctly expresed, as to have pene-
trated the walls of Parliament, and commanded re-
dress. The judgment of the country in its own
cause has been bad, and it will be obeyed. Faction
can only make itself more hated by delaying what it
cannot avert.—Eraniiricy.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 16.

The Assessed Taxes Composition Bill, the Writer to the
Signets Widows' Funds Bill, and several Private Bills,
were brought up from the Commons and read a first time.
Lord lIAREWOOD presented a petition from certain
persons in and about Halifax, in Yorkshire, praying for the
extension of the Poor Liws to Ireland ; also a petition
from mill-owners and corn dealers in and about the same
place, praying for protection against the importation of
foreign meal and flour.
The Duke of NORTHUMBERLAND presented a peti-
tion from certain Roman Catholics of the c :unty of Gal-
way, praying for an extension of the e'ective franchise to
the Catholics.

Lord RADNOR presented a petition to the same effect
from Galway; also a petition from Hamerton, praying ful
an alteration in the Game Laws ; also a petition from
Macclesfield, in favour of the Reform Bill.
The Duke of NORFOLK presented a petition from
Cork, praying for the further extension of the Education
Grants to the Catholics.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented a petition
from a certain place in Inland in favour of the Reform
Bill, and also a petition from Drogheda against the Re-
peal of the Union.
The Marquis of SALISBURY presented a petition
from the Society for the Reduction of the Poor Rates,
praying for the extension of the Poor Laws to Ireland.
He asked his M ijesty's Ministers whether they meant to
bring in any Bill this session for the better employment of
the poor in Ireland ?
The Duke of RICHMOND answered (as we understood
him), that there was such a Bill in preparation.
All these Bills were laid en the table.
TITHES COMPOSITION BILL.

The Archbishop of CANTERBURY moved the second
reading of the Tithes Composition Bill ; and the Order of
the Day being read, his Grace proceeded to explain the
nature and object of the Bill, the principles on which it
was founded, the means, or machinery, by which it was
to b.! carried into execution ; but in the first place he
begged for the indulgence of their Lordships, while he
stated the reasons which had induced him to undertake
the preparation of the Bill in question. He assured their
Lordships that in doing so he had not been actu ited by
any predilection for the task, for of all the official duties
to which it was incumbent on him to attend, the least
agreeable were those which pertained to the temporal con.
cerns of the clergy of the church ; and he also assured
their Lordships, that he had not been urged to undertake
this duty by any opinion of his own particular compe-
tency or superior knowledge of the subject. He brought
to the execution of this duty only that understanding of the
subject which might be possessed by any man of common
sense, whose attention had bean frequently called to it, and
who hail occasion to consider it, along with many sur-
veyors of tithes, and whose business it was to be some-
what conversant with the matter. lie had had ample
communications on the subject with professional persons
and others ; with many whose sentiments were in favour
of the plan, and also with many who hail considerable
oh-
jectioas to it ; and he believed that he had in consequence
of those communications been put in possession of almost
all the objections which could be devised by human inge-
nuity to the particular measure now before their Lord-
ships.
But lie had been urged to undertake this duty by
the wishes of the body of the Bishops, who were desirous
that an arrangement of this nature should be undertaken
by him, from an opinion that if it should be brought for-
ward by him with the sanction of the bench of Bishops, it
would be the more likely to be received with satisfaction,
both by the great body of the clergy, and also by the payers
of tithes; and the subject was certainly of great import-
ance, as it involved a very great share of the property of
the church. Being applied to in this manner, he did not
think he would be justified in declining the task. Many
concurred with him in the general view which he had
taken of the subject, and be hoped that it would prove
generally satisfactory. As to the delay which had taken
place in bringing it forward, that had been owing to va-
rious unavoidable circumstances, and not to any dilatori-
ness on his part. The Bill differed in several respects
from that which which was brought forward in 1930, al-
though the general object was the same. The great
object was, to remove the objections which he heard had
been made to the payment of tithes either in kind, or
by composition. To the payment of tithes in kind it had
been objected, that this mode of payment was extremely
injurious to agriculture, and to a great extent prevented
the investment of capital in the employment of agricul-
tural industry ; and to the payments by composition it
had been objected that these compositions were variable,
uncertain, and of short duration ; and it was one great
object of the Bill to remove these objections, and an-
other great object was to put an end to those contests
about the payment of tithes, which often interrupted the
amicable feelings and good understanding which, for the
interests of religion and morality, ought tr prevail be-
tween the clergy and their congregations. Indeed, the
state of the law, as it now stood, encouraged the toiler.
tion of the tithes in kind, for, when so collected, the in-
cumbent had inunediate possession of his whole pro.
petty, and hail the power to dispose of it in such man-
ner, and at such times, as best suited him. But when
the payment was by composition, the incumbent had to
wait for the previous payment of the poor rates by
the tithe-payer, and he had also to wait until the
landlord was paid, and the consequence was, that be-
fore he could get what was due to hint, the whole
property of the tithe-payer was swept away by tie landlord
or by creditors. Under these disadvantages it had been found
very difficult to enter into a satisfactory composition ; but
he hoped that the provisions of the Bill would have the
eff,ct of obviating these disadvantages, and of proving sa-
tisfactory
both to the clergyman and the farmer. The
composition would be advantageous to the farmer on ac-
count of its long duration and its unvariableness ; and cer-
tainly it would be advantageous to the clergyman, as the
Bill gave him a power of distress in order to recover what
was due to him, and thus put him on an equality with
the landlord, so that he would have the means of prevent-
ing any violation of the agreement between himself and
the tithe-payer. This was intended to be the effect of the
measure; and it now remained to be seen how far the pro-
visions of this Bill were calculated to produce this effect.
The Bill provided both for the general compositions of
whole parishes, and also particular compositions. The Bill
provided that whenever the Rector, Vicar, or other incum-
bent of any ecclesiastical living, and the owners, for the
time being, of not less than two-thirds of the value of the
farm, lands, and tenements subject to tithes payable to the
said Rector, Vicar, or other incumbent in right of his
living, shall desire a composition of the said tithe', it
shall be lawful, under certain regulations, and with the
approbation of certain parties mentioned in the Bill, to
enter into such a composition for a term not exceeding 21
years, and this composition would be binding on the sue-
censors of the incumbents entering upon these compositions.
He could have very much wished that these compositions
would have been effected without compulsion on any indivi-
dual or set of men. But as an agreement of this kind might
be defeated by the refusal of a small party, or even of an
individual to concur in it, he had been unable to find any
better
when
eiptend,oie-nthtitrhdrin the tot make
of the
the agreement
of
binding uu
all
sub-
jectamo
amount
thet 6 payme
nt oftithes
money tob
ec opnaciudr rbeyd
the tithe-payers,
toay
etrhse,
that might- be settled among the owners and occupiers of
land subject to the payment of the tithes, cr it might be
adjusted by Commissioners to be appointed .for that pur-
pose. These Commissioners might be appointed by the
parishioners, and it would be their ditty to appoint the

particular sums to be paid by each of the tithe•payeis, and
esenerally to act so as to carry the provisions of the
effectually into execution, and they would have to make
an award on the subject, which would have the force of an
instrument binding on all parties. Suppose the payments
were to be made upon the plan or criterion of corn rents,
then these payments might be adjusted every seven years;
and if the compositions were agreed to be paid by fixed
money payments, then these might be adjusted every
fourteen years. These were the regulations under which
it was proposed that the general payments should be
made. But in the next place there was a clause in the '
Hi lenabling individuals to enter into compositions for the
tithes of their own lands ; and he understood that this was
a clause which was particularly acceptable to many owners
and occupiers of land ; and for that reason he thought it
would be advisable that the provisions of the clause should
be extended. By this means these individuals might make
compositions for themselves for short periods without any
necessity far having recourse to the provisions of the Act.
As to the recovery of the: money payable in lieu of tithes,
the incumbent was to have the ordinary remedy as it
tx-
isted at present ; and also the further power of recovery
by distress on the tithe-money being in arrear for one
year ; this latter power to he analogous to that which was
possessed by the landlords under the statute of the 14th of
Anne ; and it was but fair that it should not be allowed
that the incumbent should be anticipated by the landlord
in the recovery of that which was his own. This was the
principle of the Bill, and a general view of the machinery
by which it was to be carried into execution ; which ma-
chinery appeared to him to be on the whole as plain and
simple as could reasonably be expected, considering the
difficulty of the subject, although that machinery had
been objected to. There were some clauses which
might appear rather formidable to those who had not
thoroughly examined the subject ; but these were such as
would be but seldom resorted to in practice, and were in-
serted only to give an effectual remedy to the incumbent in
case be should be under the necessity of having recourse
to it. He believed that the method of proceeding pointed
out by the Bill would be as free from trouble and expense
as any that could be devised. lie might be asked, why
it was that he had not adopted the plan of a perpetual
commutation of tithes, instead of resorting to temporary
compositions ? His answer woe, that the measure of per-
petual commutation would be attended with extreme diffi-
culty ; and that the measure of temporary compositions
was much more expedient and much more easy of execu-
tion in consistency with a due regard to the interests of
all parties. It would be very hard on the church incum-
bents that their allowance should be perpetually fixed,
when the real value of the tithe might be so different at
different periods. It ought to be considered that it was
extremely variable in respect of the value of the lands
liable to the payment of tithe, and also extremely variable
as to the persons to whom it was to be paid.
Tithes were payable to Rectors and Vicars in
different proportions and out of different subjects ; and
the amount of the great and small tithes was constantly
liable to change; and there was at times a great difference
in the expense of collecting them. Corn lands might be
turned into garden lands, and garden lands might be
turned into corn lands, and by this means a Rector had a
great advantage over the Vicar at one time, mid at an-
other time the Vicar might have a great advantage
over the Rector. In this manner great changes were
constantly taking place in the interests of different incum-
bents, and it was hardly possible to make these things
the subject of fixed and perpetual commutation. Add
to this that a great difficulty would arise from the
dif-
ferent manner in which tithes were estimated in dif-
ferent parts of the country ; and it was observable that
in those places where the estimate was least, the cla-
mours against the tithes were the greatest. But it might
he said that the commutation might be effected by
the exchange of tithe for land, or by the sale of
lands for the payment of tithes. But this, too, would be
attended with great difficulty. There was a great dif-
ference in the value of land from the different modes of
cultivation and management, for the land might be in a
at ate of high improvement, or it might he almost to the
last degree impoverished. An incumbent might have a
considerable glebe, and let it out to a tenant, but it was
his opinion that where an incumbent depended on the rent
or income to be derived from land cultivated for himself,
be could not be in a worse situation, for an incumbent was
almost the most incompetent of all men to engage with
advantage in agricultural speculations. Then, suppose that
the tithe were valued and sold, and that the amount were
invested in the public funds, the matter would not be in a
better situation. The public funds were constantly affected
by variations in commerce, and by the convulsions that
occasionally tools place in the country, and it might happen
that the income of the clergyman might be reduced
• at times almost to nothing. But even if it should be found
practicable and expedient to resort at last to a commuta-
tion, it would still be desirable that, in the first instance,
the amount of the temporary compositions for the tithes
should he settled by the agreements ; and besides, if these
compositions should be properly acted upon, they would have
the effect of a perpetual commutation. Then, he mght be
asked, why he had confined his measure to the tithes
p iyable to the clerical incumbents, and did not include
in it the tithes payable to lay impropriators ? His
answer was, that he thought it highly desirable that
the present measure, which lie had been called upon li
to arrange, should be confined to the clergy, and that
the law impropriators should not be included. Ile
thought it much better that the lay impropriatois should
be left to arrange matters for themselves. In fine, he
thought it highly desirable that this measure, if approved
of by Parliament, should pass into a law as soon as pea_
slide, since great expectations had been excited in the pub.
lie mind on the subject, and it was proper the community
should be apprised, with the least possible delay, of what
it was the Bill really did. Great expectations were enter-
tained in the country; and if the Bill had been calculated
to answer all their expectations, they' would soon find that
they would be in some measure disappointed. It happened
in many instances that those who were called upon to pay
the tithes entertained a notion that if the tithes payable to
the clergy were abolished they would he relieved to the
amount of their payments. It was scarcely necessary to
obsesve, that in this expectation they would be disappointed,
for if the tithes were not paid to the clergy, the amount
would be paid in rent to the I mdlords. He was anxious,
therefore, that a speedy arrangement should take place,
and the plan proposed by this Bill he considered the fairest
and most proper that could at present be devised. He
hoped the owners of land would facilitate the execution of
it, as without their existence and co-operation nothing
could be done. The measure was the best that, after ma-
ture consideration, and with the aid of many of those
who were the most competent to judge, he could devise.
The Session was, indeed, far advanced, and several per-
sons whose opinions it was highly desirable they should
have, were absent on their duties on the circuits, or were
prevented from attending by other reasons. It would have
been very desirable that such persons should be present, as
several alterations had been made, so as to make the Bill
somewhat different in its provisions from the Bill of 1830.
But be hoped no unnecessary delay would take place in
the progress of the Bill, as, for the reasons he had already
stated, it was highly desirable the measure should be passed
into a law as speedily as possible.
The LORD CHANCELLOR.—IIe was induced to in-
trude himself thus early on their Lordships' attention, from
the anxiety which he felt that, considering the situation
which he held, his opinion of this measure should he
known as speedily as possible. He had given the utmost
attention to the plan of the Most Rev. Prelate, as it was
his duty to do, and he had only to say that he felt
great satisfaction at the result of the Most Rev. Prelates
judicious labours. Great thanks were due to the Most
Rev. Prelate, both from the church, and their Lordships,
ga
ittiumd
ee
%tie>,
atsh idsu
toos thiimtm oar: al
inet
‘, , subjectpec;u
anrdl
ys:ip taihei more
and the country, for having devoted so much of his vain-
e
to
arrange a measure of this kind, from his great experience
and knowledge of the matters with which he hail to deal.
With respect to the subject itself, it appeared to him, that
those who might be disposed to discuss this subject, either
in or out of the House, might be reduced totwo classes:
—First, those who thought that the measure did not go far
enough, in the whole, for the due execution of its owl'
purpose ; secondly, those who thought that the object
could be better accomplished by another course. With
regard to the fist class, it was not to be supposed that
they would make any sweeping opposition to the Bill. As
the law now stood, although a liege proportion of the oc-
cupiers of the titheable lands in a parish should be willing
to enter into a composition with the incumbent, and
' although the incumbent should be willing to accept of the
composition, and although the owners of the lands, and
the Bishop, and the patron of the living should ap-
prove of it ; and however reasonable in themselves the
terms of the composition might be, still it would be
available only for those who entered into it, and the other
payers of tithes in the parish could not be brought into
it unless they chose ; and even an individual might
prevent the cemposition from applying to the whole pa-
rish. Any individual might thus prevent a general com-
position from being entered into; for, however reasonable
the composition might be in itself, the "law required con-
sent of all before it could be established as a general paro-
chial composition. This evil was remedied by the Bill 0!
the most Rev. Prelate, which adopted a rule analagous to
one which prevailed in the Sister Kingdom, by which the
consent of tyro-thirds was made binding on the whole.

' Another defect in compositions made under the law as it
at present stood way, that however reasonable and proper
!he composition might be in itself, and however generally
it might be adopted, and however satisfactory it might be
to the incumbent who had accepted it, still it was avail-
able only during the life-time of that incumbent. This
was the case, although the composition should have been
approved by 1 9-20ths of those who were concerned ; and
not only by 1 9-20ths but by the whole 20; for although
all should have concurred, the composition was at an end
at the death of the incumbent. This defect also was re-
medied by the Bill of the Most Rev. Prelate. He, for one,
thought that in all eases where there Isere so many diffi-
culties to be encountered, and where there were so many
conflicting interests to be reconciled, a cautious mode of
proceeding was the most proper to he adopted when you
came to apply the remedy. There was certainly consider
able difficulty in providing the proper remedy on the sub-
ject to which this Bill referred, and this he himself had
experienced when he applied his mind to the subject four-
teen years ago, and had introduced a measure relating to it
in the other House. For his own part, he would not say
that he saw his way so clearly before him as to go consi-
derably further at present than this Bill had gone ; and he
thought it most expedient that a Noble Baron (Lord D :ere),
with whom he concurred on so many subjects, should with-
draw his Bill for the present, until they could ascertain, by
experience, bow the measure of the Most Nob,e Prelate
would work, and how far it was likely to answer the im-
portant purpose which they all had in view. The mea-
sure of the Most Noble Prelate went to establish composi-
tions of a temporary nature ; while the Bill of his Noble
Friend had or its object a permanent and perpe,ual com-
mutation of tithes; and he had so much deference for the
plan of the Most Noble Prelate, that. he felt disposed to
acquiesce in it for the present, in order that if they should
find it proper to come to the consideration of his Noble
, Friend's plan at a future period, they might do so with the
warning of experience with which the Operation of this
Bill would supply them. He preferred the plan of his
Right Rev- Fiend, because it was capable of expansion.
It might be improved in its provisions, or he itsttrafred
upon that proposed be the Noble Lord (Deere) if found to
operate beneficially ; whereas, on the contrary, if it were not
proved by experience to be good, it might be stopped. In
this respect it was greaely preferable to the other Bill. Ile
had another objection to the plan of the Noble Lord. He
did not consider it expedient to leave it entirely to two-
thirds of the proprietors of the land to determine that a
composition should be effected without the consent of the
patron, the incumbent, and the ordinary. Ag tin, the
adjustment was to be made by two Commissioners—
one appointed by the parishioners, and the other by
the incumbent. If these Commissioners could not
agree, they were to choose an umpire. Now, he con-
sidered the arrangement faulty in this respect. It
required only that the Commissioners against the
tithe-payers should be appointed by the incumbent. He
thought that teas an arrangement which might be attended
with many difficulties. For, to take a case of negligence
in the parson, or of imprudence, or of signal disregard of
worldly concerns, in such a case, the Corm:di-donee ap-
pointed by the incumbent, might agree to an arrangement
contrary to the interests of the church. But that was net
the worst case. If the parson were under the influence of
a patron, as the law of the title always supposed him to be,
might not a case arise in which the parson, acting under
the influence of the patron, should appoint a commisaien
by whom the interests of the church would be sacrificed
to those of the patron? Or, suppose the incumbent to be
on old man, with one foot in the grave—might not the
patron, owning, perhaps two thirds of the tithes, in such
a case induce the parson to appoint a valuator indifferent
or hostile to the interests of the church by giving him a
life annuity greatly exceeding his proportion of the tithes ?
He objected also to that provision of the Bill by which the
composition was made compul-ors, leaving no option to
the patron, the incumbent, or the ordinary. He thought
it his duty to explain himself to their Lordships fully on
this Act, as it proposed to make a great change in the
rights and property of the Established Church. A change
of that nature must be proceeded in with very great can-
tion.—(Hear, hear.) He would not say that such a
change might not he necessary. It might be necessary
that something should be done for the relief of the land-
owners and the agriculturists, on whose produce tithes
cettainly operate injuriously as a tax. It might be neces-
sary that some greater alteration should take place in the
tithe system than even the Noble Lord's Bill proposed to
make. A larger measure might, perhaps, be called for.
He was convinced that if some measure could be
enacted which should establish a universal and
uniform system for the payment of the clergy, and
preclude all the inconveniences arising from the present
mode, such a measure would be for the benefit of the
church and the clergy, as well as of those committed to
their care. For he (lid not think that the wit of man
could have devised an arrangement more calculated than
the present system of tithes to alienate the parishioners
from their pastors, and to produce that disunion and dis-
content, to preclude the possibility of which ought to be
the end of all ecclesiastical institutions. But there was
great difficulty in finding a remedy for those inconve-
nienciea, and providing at the same time for the main-
tenance of the church, and to keep up the condition of
the clergy to time level at which it should be maintained
to secure for them the respect of man. Such an arrange-
ment ought to provide for the increase of the incomes of
the clergy in the sonic proportion as the incomes of the
lest of the community increased—(Hear)—and for the
payment of their incomes in such a way that they should
be given ungrudgingly.—( Hear.) He did not think that
the mode in which they were at present paid was of that
nature ; but be had this advantage over the plan of the
Noble Lord, that no improvement could take place in
the incomes of the parishioners, a ithout producing
a corresponding increase in the incomes of the
church. Under the existing laws, he must look
upon the clergyman and the landowner as joint proprie-
tors in the farm, nine-tenths being the property of
the landlord, and the remaining one-tenth as abso-
lutely the property of the parson. The landlord could
no more turn round upon the clergyman and deny
his right to the one-tenth, than could the latter
turn upon the landowner and deny his right to the nine-
tenths.—(Hear, hear.)—lt was precisely the same case as
if a field were divided into ten part., of which nine were
allotted to one of two proprietor', and the tenth were set
apart for the other. The owner of the nine-tenths had no
right to seize upon the remaining tenth, the property of
his neighbour. The clergyman anti the landlord might be
looked upon as co-partners, of whom the latter was the
acting, and the former the sleeping partner.—(Hear,
hear.) He meant to call the clergyman a sleeping part-
ner, only as to agricultural labour. He did not work
tuhpeorcaotmham• land, but
~‘v hhiche
inlalrmetuurre
return allotted
elsewhere
liimforathe good
plop of
proportion
of the produce of the soil.—(Hear, bear.) It would
therefore be a great violation of property, that one of thole
co-partners—the clergyman or the landlord—should oust
the other from his possession, without asking his consent.
What would be the consequence, if such a law were enacted
respecting other co-partnerships ?—partners in commer-
cial property—if one should be allowed to say to the other,
" You must go out. You must consent to take stock
now, whether you like to do so or not ; and, if it he
valued at ten thousand pounds yeti must take one thou-
sand, and we shall teke the remaining nine. You shall
' have the one thousand for yourself, your heirs, and assigns,
for ever : and then should the •alue of the property be in-
creased, you shall be shut out for ever from all participa-
tion in that increase, the advantage of which shall be alto-
gether ours."—(Hear.) But the measure proposed by the
Right Rev. Prelate was not liable to the same objections in
its whole exten's It contemplated re-adjustments, re-
gulating the composition according to the variations
in the price of agricultural produce. In that way
the evil to which he pointed would be somewhat miti-
gated, if it could not be entirely done away with. But still
he did not see how it was to be provided that the income
of the clergyman should be increased in proportion to the
increasing value of the property of his parishioners. The
Bill only provided against the inconvenience which might
arise from the fluctuations in the value of money. It was
necessary that this subject should he considered and exa-
mined. There were various and complicated interests
connected with it. Although he saw defects in the plan
of the Right Rev. Prelate, he was unable at present to
suggest a remedy. He was sensible that the mode in
which the clergy now received their incomes was open to
much objection. As a friend to the agriculture of this
country, as a friend to the Established Church, to its
welfare, permanence, and peace, and to the important in-
see
terests committed to its care—for all which it was neces-
sary t' at a good understanding should subsist between laity
effected
cdteeedp 1 diewprlfoercetd .e
consonance
ance wished
wi
with
ho
and ecclesiastics—he should be glad to see his way through
the difficulties with which the subject was embarras-ed,
prin-
ciples of justice, having due regard to the rights of the
church, and carefully consulting the interests of all par-
sichbi
lie
eigras
dr.rbieitel:oydi
os(
beiwidlys
It might
after
fcir,
tcn,uhet
rti
ghyuh‘eavati
muchatrcos.ho)antevhcoeeenSs deliberationcieceoccthnutt
eer arri from
en arrangementdo:t,aioatnt with
their
That consummation so devoutly to be wished,
aranndgelleincth
parta'a—ili ne
tnsxcf;hl hn((alsaaitttti47enotn:i
measure of his Noble Friend was like that great measure
of commutation which was effected in the •
reign of
the
ar
ruttei
Scotland,ue

Charles the First. But it was to he remembered,
the circumstances of the times favoured that arrangemete
of the tithes in Scotland. It was much more easy the.
to effect such a commutation in Scotland than it wool.
he to bring about a similar measure in England. Every
one acquainted with the history of Scotland, must kno‘:
that the clergy were never other than stipendiary in than
country since the Reformation, whereas in England they
never were stipendiary.—(hear, hear.) The laws of thi,
country hold any contract between the.incumhent and tit,
patron for the reservation of any portion of the tithes t.
the benefit of the latter to be a misdemeanour, and punito
able by a penalty. But so fir seas that from being
case in Scotland, that the I, w expressly recognized corn-
pacts between the patron and the incumbent for the pat.
titian of the tithes ; and over all Scotland every one par
son was stipendiary at the time when the commutation w
effected. Now in such cases, where the clergy were sti
taenodni rtyi
dhee could r
the sames''enhi sn4 easier than such it compo-
sition, would be varied an.
as well secured as it was before. The clergyman was cer
tainly a loser, in so far as his income was fixed at flit)
pounds or five pounds, and remained unchanged, when
value of money had been so much altered since tlia
period. But he would have received no more ha l th.
Act of Charles never existed. In some cases the parson
received part of the composition in grain and part in mo
ney, and in that respect the arrangement of !hat day re
sernble I the measure of his Right Rev. Friend. 11
trusted that he had said enough to show their Lordship
that the rights of the tithe•owner to that species of pro-
perty was as legal and as complete as that of the land-
owner to his estate.—(Hear, hear.) The misfortune we•
that tire laws had fixed upon a mode of collecting tt,
tithe-owner's income which was attended with many an,
serious inconveniences. By mutoal agreement', however,
between the p attics concerned, an arrangement might, a,
he had said, be come to, whereby those evils should be re
moved, neither party standing too much upon their own
claims, or denying pertinaciously the el rims of the other,
The Earl of ELDON did not intend to oppose this
measure, but to look at its provisions calmly, temperately,
and deliberately. It was a difficult thing to attempt t,,
a'ter the property of the church in tithes. He would nor
say that it was not lit to make that alteration. Bit It
thought it his duty to state to their Lordships, that
although he should vote for the second reading of those
Bills, y. t it was not possible for him to say what vote le
might feel obliged to give after it had gone through th.
Committee. The recital of the two Bills differed mucl
from each other. One preamble set forth that it was
desirable that the tithe compositions should be temporary
The other asserted that it was a great inconvenience t
have temporary arrangements of that kind, and that all
compositions should be permanent. Now both Bills could
not he right. A great deal had been said of the right of
the clergy to their tithes. But the same things might be
predicted as well respecting the rights of the I ry impropria-
tors to their tithes.—(Hear, hear.) He thought it was
seme.what dangerous to make distinctions between the
rights to different kinds of property. He did not say that
it might not be necessary to make laws which should alter
the rights of property ; but he thought all such inter-
ference shou'd be attempted very cautiously. IL: would,
therefore, beg of their Lordships to look well to these Bills.
and consider where those measures were to stop.—(Hear,
hear.) He would take the liberty to say, that if the Bibs
were to come out of the Committee in the same state io
which they went into it, then it would he impossible for
their Lordships to give their assent to them. There was
no law so little understood as the law relating to tithes in
this country; and he thought he should be able to show
in the Committee, that there was not one clause in those
Bills that must not undergo considerable alteration before
their Lordships could pass it. According to the present
tithe laws of this country, the Bills could not, without
being tnuch altered, effect the purposes for which the)
were intended. He should give his utmost exertion to
make the 811, if it must be passed, such as could become
a law.

The Bishop of LONDON had heard with great satisfac-
tion the speech of the Noble and Learned Lord on the
Woolsack. That Noble Lord had placed on its proper
basis the property of the church, when he stated that
which it was their duty to press upon the attention of the
public—namely, that the property of the church is held
by the same tenure:as all the other property in the king-
dom, and that the clergy have as good a right to their
possessions and incomes as any landed proprietor has to
his estates.—(Hear.) If that property were taken from
the clergy, into whose hands would it go? Certain!y not
to the labouring classes of the people, but to the landed
proprietors.—(Hear.) If, then, the clergy were to he
maintained, on whom would the burthen fall ? On that
part of the people who now contribute nothing to that
purpose. For it could scarcely be disputed, that, with the
exception of the Easter dues and some customary fees, the
labouring classes contributed nothing to the support of the
clergy, but the whole burthen was borne by the landed
proprietors. The Noble and Learned Lord would excuse
him for remarking up .n one expression which had fallen
from the Noble Lord, when he was proving the indefeasi-
ble tight of the clergy to the one• tenth part of all the pro-
duce of the land in the kingdom. The Noble Lord then
compared the clergy to the sleeping partner in a trading
concern.—(Hear.) He was aware that the Noble Lord
did immediately explain the sense in which he used the
expression. But still he (the Bishop of London) did riot
wish the expression to go forth without comment ; becau‘e
everything which fell from the Noble Lord was much and
justly attended to by the public—(Hear, hear)—and that
expression might be taken hold of, and the meaning of
the Noble Lord misrepresented. H t did not mean to
find fault with the expression as used by the Noble
Lord, who had himself at once explained that he did
not use the words in the sense to which he (the Bishop
of London) was then objecting.—(Hear, hear.) But
they had been often used before in au invidiSats sense.
—(Heer, hear.) He not only fully agreed in the
principle laid down by the Noble and Learned Lord, that
the clergy held their property in tithes by as good and
legal a right as any other property in the kingdom was
held by ; but he would add that no property in the kilte-
d= was expended more beneficially to the country. The
greatest part of it was expended on the spot where it was
collected, and much of it was employed in works of charity
and benevolence. He thought it was important to the
welfare of the country and to the permanence of our in-
stitutions that the rights of the clergy should be maintained,
and that everything should he done to secure their resi-
dence in the places committed to their charge. As to the
subject of commutation or comp-nsation, nothing could be
added to what had been said by the Noble Lord. He (the
Bishop of London) was friendly to the measure of his most
Rev. Friend. But he wished a clause to lie added which
should allow the commutation of tithe for land. He could
say from his experience, that where the incumbent, ti e
patron, the tithe payer, and the ordinary agreed to such
an agreement, it was effected to the satisfaction and the
permanent advantage of all parties. lie did not see why
a clause could not be inserted in the Bill, empowering par-
ties to effect such an arrangement in all cases. Ile wished
to say one word as to what had fallen from the Noble
Lord, respecting the inconvenience of that mode of paying
the clergy, which had existed in this country for more
than nine hundred years. Since 1610, acd not before
that time, much inconvenience had certainly arisen from
it. Wherever political' discontent prevailed, or grievances
were complained of, for the last 150 years a clamour was
raised against tithes ; and all the evils were attributed to
the Established Church, and to that system which had
given to this country the most learned and respectable
body of clergymen that had ever flourished in any nation.
—(Hear.) He attributed much of the evils that were
complained of to the complicated machinery of the tithe
laws, onm
account of which he would not say that the sys-
te was not justly unpopular. He was desirous of seeing
some measure adopted, by which the
people h
i shouldea r) e
enabled to know what part of the land was titheable, and
what was to be exempted front tithe—(ldeas,
and not be compelled to go front one court of justice,
which decided that such land was not titheable, to another
which would decide that it was so. He wondered that
such a state of the law had been so long allowe,l to con-
tinue in this country. He was more friendly to the pay-
ment of tithes in kind than to any other mode.
The LORD CHANCELLOR explained as to the phrase
" sleeping partner," which had fallen from him : be hid
not intended to use it invidiously, but merely to explain
that the clergyman did not take any part in ploughing,
sowing, or reaping the land ; nevertheless, the law re•
cognised the dutica he discharged, and for their disch age
gave him a share in the profits of the land.
The Bishop of LONDON hoped that the expiate aion
had been delivered in such a tone, that it would go Mal,
to the country.
The Bill was then read a second time, and the Com-
mittee fixed for I hursday next.
PRINCE LEOPOLD'S ANNUITY.
Earl GREY referred to a question that had been put to
him on a former day, regarding
the disposition of the in-
come of Prince Leopold after his acceptance of the throne
of Belgium : on that occasion he had thought it expe
dient not to give an answer to the Noble Marquis. The in-
come of his Royal Highness was secured by Act of Par.
liatnent, and it was, therefore, enjoyed under the same
sanction which gave a title to every other species of pro-
perty—the law. Whatever was done, must, of course, be
and on the previous day it appeared to him (Earl Grey)
voluntary and gratuitous on the part of Prince Leopold ;

t,

hat it would have been most improper and indelicate even
-o have hinted at the step which was likely to be taken by
nis Royal Highness. as it relatmd either to the Govern'
nent, or to the Parliament. He (Earl Grey) had, how'
iver, previous to the question tieing put in the Hou-e, bad
communication with Prince Leopold, and be had thin
bought himself precluded from offering any sutzgestionsm
Ills Royal Highness, nevertheless, stated what was his in-
,ention, in case the event contemplated occurred, and since
runt interview Prince Leopold had repeated in a letter what
had then passed. It certainly was in the nature of a private
miommunication ; but as considerable anxiety had been ex-
pressed upon the subyct, he (Earl Grey) altar mature con-
sideration, and with a view to put an end to invidious
,tatements, had determined to read it to the House. Ile
b-gged to repeat that the letter was merely a re.statcment
}1 what Prince Uoi;o1-1 had expressed verbally before the
mestion bad been asked by the Noble Marquis (London•
delay) ; ard he (E al Grey) could further add, upon his
-twit knowledge, that from the bone the acceptance of ti:e
krone of R-leium was contemplated, it was the determi-
nation of his Royal Highness not to draw front this country
any part of the income sett'ed upon him.—(Cheers.) As
he most authentic, if not the most unobjectionable mode
of proceeding, he would read the express words of Prince
Leopold, written on the evening of time day when he (Eat'
Grey) had had the verbal commun;cation with him :

" Marlborough House, July 13.
.4 MY DEAR Loan Gary,—Before I quit the country, I am de-
sirous to state, in writing, the intentions and views which I had
the pleasure of communicating to you verbally this morning on
the subject of my British annuity.
" As Sovereign of Belgium, it is not my intention to draw from
this country any portion of the income which was settled upon Ine
by Act of Parliament at the period of my marriage. Your Lord-
ship is, however, well aware, that up to the very moment of my
leaving England, I have maintained my establishmcr, s here upon
their accustomed Iboting, and that, consequently, there remain
to be fulfilled and discharged pecuniary engagements and out-
standing debts, to an amount which it is quite impossible for me
to state at the present time with precision. As soon, therefore,
as I shall have accomplished the payment of these demands, it is
my intention to make over, into the hands of trustees, whom I
will without loss of time appoint, the whole of the annuity
which I receive from this country, in trust for the following
iurposcs

"I shalt require my trustees to maintain, in a state of com-
plete habitation and of repair, the house, gardens, and park, at
Claremont; an I farther, to pay all the salaries, pensions, and
allowances, which I shall deem a proper reward to those persons
who have claims upon me, for their faithful services during mY
residence in this country. I shall, in addition, require them to
continue all those charities and annual donations to charitable
institutions, which have been allowed or subscribed to, either by.
the Princess Charlotte or by myself, up to the present period.
" All these objects having been fulfilled, it is my wish and de-
sire that the remainder shall be repaid into the British EN.
chequer. _ _ .

I remain, Inc dear Lord Grey, most faithfully yours.
(Signed) " LEOPOLD."
(The reading of this letter was followed by repeated
sheets from all sides.) It was impossible (Earl Grey
added) for Government, Parliament, and the country not
to acknowledge the extreme liberality of the views of his
Royal Highness.—(Cheers.) Another question had been
pot on the form. r day respecting, the regiment of which
Prince Leopold was Colonel. Undoubtedly nothing had
pass, d between his Royal Highness and himself (Earl
Grey) upon that subject ; but he had concluded, from the
general spirit of the Prince's conduct, that he would think
it unbecoming the Sovereign of another nation to receive
pecuniary emolument front this.—(Hear, hear.) Hence
he had felt assured that Prince Leopold would relinquish
his regiment. Upon this point, he (Earl Grey) had ree
ceived a communication front the Commander of the
roes, mentioning that Colonel Cust had waited upon
Lt r 1 Hill, and had stated, that it was the intention of
Prince Leopold, before he set out for Belgium, to resign the
Colonelcy Of the sth Dragoon Goer& ; but that, in the
hurry of departure, his Royal Highness had omitted the
fiental announcement of his wishes. Colonel Cust, how.-
vet-, did not hesitate to state that such, certainly, had
been his Royal Ilighnesi's intention ; and he felt himself
author'zeil to make a communicalion to that effect t°
Lord Hill, in order that a report might be made to his
Majesty. Colonel Cust bad added, that Baron Stock'
mar would fully confirm what he had mentioned ; and et°
rehrence to the Baron, by Lord Hill, such undoubtedlY
appeared to be the fact. In justice to his Royal Highness
he (Ertl Grey) had been called upon to make this state'
ment ; and he had nothing to add, but his confidence that
the motives of Prince Leopold would he duly appreciated,
and that his conduct would give the highest satisfaction"'
Parliament and to the country. (]Much cheering.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON expressed his gratified"
tion at this arrangement, not at all doubting the full right
of the Prince to retain his property had he thought proper
to do so. On the same principle he might also have c°°:
tinned at the head of his regiment. Having examined
the subject cn a former occasion of a similar charactert
he had found that Isis Royal Highness held his property hY,
the same tenure as that by which all their Lordships bed°
their property—the law of the land. The charges upon
_
it rendered it absolutely impossible fer his Royal nighness
entirely to resign it. He congratulated the House that
Prince Leopold had made this arrangement, nut because
he pi.ssessed that feeling repeatedly stated by the public
Press, but bee mse he rejoiced to find that his Royal High"
ness, called to the Government of another country, Wag
anxious to ,how that lie was entirely independent of Eng'
land.—(Cheers.) That was the ground on which he cd°:
gratulated the country, and not for the sake of any truck,
ling notion.

I