The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-25 00:00:00

chile thtit r pii_ion was in prfvzres, they had
had an it • u
committing other acts of hostility, they never would
have had that slave trade abolished. He believed that
the present policy was not a sound one. When this Act
was passed, distinct declarations were made by the
Foreign Secretary that nothing wculd give him
greater pleasure than to repeal this Act, and since that
time, as he was informed, the Brazilians had sub-
mitted such a project as would have satisfied Lord
Aberdeen. The project submitted, he was informed,
was satisfactory to both parties, but was not carried
out in consequence of a change of Administration,
when Lord Palmerston wrote a dispatch which imme•
diately put an end to the whole negotiation. Lord
Palmerston promi,ed to prepare a draft of a treaty, but
his intimation was that it was not to be questioned, and
that they had nothing to do but to sign it. Ten months
afterwards came out this draft, and in June, 1847, it
was forwarded. Lord Howden was instructed that he
was not to alter a letter in that treaty. The Right Hon.
Gentleman read the dispatch. He ventured humbly to
say that these instructions, affording no ground fur nego-
tiation, was not calculated to be successful. The plan, as
might have been anticipated, had entirely failed, and to
that Sir Charles Hotham, the commander of the squad-
ron there, had borne his testimony. His opinion was that
they should be met halfway, particularly as there was a
party, especially among the younger .men, who were
favourable to this project. But Lord Palmerston's in-
structions had armed against us the whole population.
He had stated sufficient reasons, he hoped, to induce the
House to agree to a Bill, which he wished to bring in to
repeal so much of the present law as was obnoxious to
the renewal of amicable relations with the empire of
Brazil. He moved for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal
the Act 8 and 9 Vic., c. 122.
Mr. URQUHART said that if the Government of this
country was anxious to find out new channels to advance
the trade of this country, nothing could more facilitate
that object than opening up amicable relations with the
southern continent of America, and especially with the
Brazilian empire. Yet that was tho empire which, from
the clear and explicit statement they had just heard,
they had the worst understanding. Our measures, from
the testimony of Sir C. Hotham, were the chief support
of the slave trade in that country. The Portuguese
Government had been treated in a similar manner. The
Hon. Member concluded by saying, that for the reasons
he had stated he felt pleasure in seconding the Right
Hon. Gentleman's motion.
Sir F. THESIGER said, the motion of the Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Milner Gibson) was for the repeal of the
Bth and 9th Vic., chap. 122; and after what they had
heard in its support, he trusted the House would give no
encouragement to the motion. The Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Milner Gibson) had introduced the
motion with great clearness and force, but he had fallen
into a few errors, which it would be necessary to correct
before he applied himself to a consideration of the ques-
tion. The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the
Bth and 9th Victoria as if they had power ucder that
Act to deal with Brazilian subjects. Now, there was
nothing in the Act which gave power over the subject of
Brazil. It gave power merely to the Admiralty to ad-
judicate respecting the cargo and vessels of Brazilian
subjects.—(Hear, hear.) He would call the attention
of the House to the convention of 1826, which incorpo-
rated into it all the powers of the treaty with Portugal
in 1817; and in the first article of the treaty of '26 it
was provided, that in three years after the exchange
of the ratification of the treaty the slave trade should
be entirely abolished, and that any subject of Brazil
•rading in slaves after the treaty should be guilty
of piracy.—(Hear, hear.) The three years expired in
1830; but under the treaty with Portugal in 1817, it
was provided, that after the slave trade should be abo-
lished, the treaty should exist for 17 years. It there-
fore lasted for 15 years after 1830, and it expired
accordingly in March, 1845. There was then the Act
of 7 and 8 Geo. IV., to give effect to that treaty. So
stood the law till March, 1845, when the treaty came
to an end according to the stipulations of the original
treaty. Inasmuch as the Act of Geo. IV. prohibited
any proceedings in the Courts of Admiralty, and as
the slave-trade came to an end in 1830, and there being
no mixed Commission Courts, it became necessary to
consider the condition in which this country stood
by the treaty with the Brazilian Government, that the
slave-trade should be entirely abolished. In 1830
the representative of the Brazilian Court ex-
pressed it as his opinion that there was no occasion
for the mixed Commission Courts, and that parties
might be left to be dealt with by the ordinary tribunals
of their respective countries for violation of the treaty.
No one could doubt that the slave trade was perma-
nently abolished by the treaty referred to. The Hon.
and Learned Member then entered into an examination
of the case of the Brazilian ship Felicidade and her Ma-
jesty's ship Wasp, which had come under the considera-
tion of the thirteen judges, and in which the crew of
the Brazilian ship were charged with the murder of
some of the crew of the Wasp, who had been put on
board in charge of the ship. It appeared, however, that
the ship was not taken with slaves on board, and the
men were accordingly acquitted of the charge of mur-
der. After commenting at some length upon the case,
the Hon. and Learned Member said the question was
whether the House would agree to the repeal of the Bth
and 9th Vic., cap. 122. He thought it most undesirable
that the Act should be repealed; for, if so, the treaty of
1826 would be a dead letter.
Mr. BRIGHT said that he considered that the House
and the country were under great obligation to his Right
Hon. Friend (Mr. M. Gibson) for having brought that
subject udder their notice, because the more it would be
discussed the more it would be seen how flimsy and
useless was the character of that treaty. There were
two questions involved in that subject; one with regard
to the abolition of slavery, and the second respecting the
commercial relations of this country with Brazil. He
would wish to have the House see what were the proceed-
ings onthe subject of slavery and piracy since the passing of
8 and 9 Victoria, but he regretted to say that they could
not see those proceedings as there had been no returns
relative to the number of vessels engaged and captured
in piracy and the slaving trade. The people in his
(Mr. Bright's) county were anxious for the repeal of
this law, because they have capital to a large amount
in that country, and also because it was a one-
sided treaty, in consequence of which the duty
on their exports had risen from 15 per cent. to 30 per
cent.; and, moreover, there are other awkward circum-
stances, that the property of persons dying intestate is
generally wasted in the Brazil Courts, and that their
relatives have no means whatever of recovering that pro-
perty. In a word, the commercial relations of this
country are totally perplexed by attempting to perform
impossibilities, that is, to dragoon free nations into a
course which this country would not endure at the hands
of any other country, and be also thought that nothing
could be worse than to compel those nations into an abo-
lition of the slave-trade before they had made up their
mind for such a measure; for the abolition of slavery in
this country was the result of many years' agitation.
Ho admitted that the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell)
thought that he had done good for the coast of Africa by
that law, but he (Mr. Bright) could assure him that such
was not the opinion out of doors, for the Anti-Slavery
Society were at present strongly remonstrating against
the policy which Government wore pursuing on that
coast.—(clear, hear.)
Mr. C. ANSTEY said that ho should differ from the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Sir F. Thesiger) on the
point to which he bad alluded, respecting the cases of
the Felicidade and the Echo, for he considered that the
captors were the guilty party; at least in the case of the
latter ship. He said that one of the fifteen judges who
presided in that case declared that the treaty was use-
less, and that the Act 8 and 9 Vic. was null and void ;
and he, therefore, thought that the Right Hoe. Gentle-
man (Mr. M. Gibson) was perfectly right in the opinion
that he had to-night expressed. He was an enemy,
in the sincerest acceptation of the term, to the slave
trade; but he thought this country was bound to pursue
other means to put down that iniquity than in making
themselves gaolers and police in a very doubtful course
of policy. He wished to see the House united in sup-
port of the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, for he
considered the treaty under consideration most unjust,
and one which he hoped to see put an end to.
Sir EDWARD F. BUXTON must confess his regret
that this motion had been brought forward to-night, be-
cause, as his Hon. Friend the Member for Manchester

must be aware, a Committee at that moment sitting on
the question of the slave-trade; and he could not but

also express his regret that his Right Hon.Yriend had
been instigated by his constituents to this course; and
the more so as the greater part of tae goods which were
taken by the slaves, ware manufactured at and sent out

from Isianchester.(l-fear, hear.) He could not but
regret the Act which we passed in 1846, that of admit-
ting foreign-grown sugar into this country, feeling, as
he did, that it acted directly as as an encouragement to
the production of slave-grown sugar. He could not also
but regret the notice of motion entered on the books by
the [lon. Member for Gateshead, for doing away alto-
gether with the cruisers on the coast of Africa, and he
hoped his Right lion. Friend would not; persevere in his
motion.

Mr. HUME could not but express his surprise at the
line of argument of his Hon. Friend n.,,,ar him (Sir E.
N. Buxton), in condemning the people of Manchester
for sending out and selling goods for the i ise of the slaves.
Why, if that line of argument was to be pursued, there
was no man moro chargeable than the Hon. Member
himself, who prepared his liquors for the public. He should
like to see the Hon. Baronet, on his own principle, tried
by a jury of teetotallers—(Laughter)—a nd he thought
they would not acquit him. With r espect to the
Honourable Baronet's condemnation of the proposed
withdrawal of the squadron from the cosset of Africa,
he must disapprove of it. There were t`wo things to
be considered in this question; first, did the. means they
were using promote the object which they ha din view?
He said no. And, secondly, did they do any
:good? No.
Why, the whole money they collected from the window
tax, amounting to 1,000,000/. and upwards, was thrown
away in the maintaining this squadron, and: the sooner
it was withdrawn the better.
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL was sorry to he. tr the Hon.
Member for Montrose express himself as he .he had on
the present occasion. He regretted that the naotion now
before House was brought forward by the Hon. Gentle-
man, the Member for Manchester.

Sir R. PEEL said, that the case appeared flo, him to
stand on this
ground. It might
butotruie that ..one na-
tion could not take upon
tassertt that
at t the
cer-
tain muni-
cipal jurisdiction of another;
a e, anvention
were agreed upon betweenthemf t
off
h
acts piracy, then by virtuet (!onvention,
the one country could interfere toapish the
subjects of the other for the commission of ph at
if the other refused to do it. It was said that thee Act
offence,
of 1842, which was passed in order to give a .rect to the
convention with Brazil, had been passed in opi )osition
to
every principle of international law. It would 1 )0 strange
if that were so, because it was submitted previously to
some °Rho most eminent authorities on this subject.
That House passed the Bill in 1845 without a division,
and in the House of Peers it was discussed in the' pre-
sence of the Lord Chancellor and the Lord Chief