The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-04 00:00:00

SUPPLY.

Mr. PARKER brought up the report of the Com-
mittee of Supply, which was agreed to, after some ob-
servations from

Mr. HUME, who pressed upon the attention of the
Government the immediate printing and circulating
among Members the report relative to the proceeding
with the new House of Commons.

POOR-LAW (IRELAND)—RATE IN AID BILL.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL then resumed the adjourned
debate on the second reading of this Bill. Ho deprecated
the taunts that had been thrown out by Hon. Members
of that House against Irish Members and the people of
the south and western parts of Ireland. If such taunts
were continued upon such a question as the 6d. Rate in
Aid Bill, Irish Members and the people of the south
and , west parts of Ireland would feel inclined
to test their loyalty with those who de-
scended so low as to throw out such unneces-
sary insinuations. He agreed with the Honourable
Gentlemen the Member for the University of
Dublin in finding fault with this Rate in Aid Bill-
he had heard nothing on this second portion
of the debate that bad removed his objection to the
measure, neither had ho heard any thing as a
substitution for it. He was aware that this was an en-
deavour to induce the landlords to contribute out of
their funds to assuage the general distress of
the country, and he believed that the endeavour
arose out of a supposition that the landlords
did not do their duty to their country. There might be
some justice in this, yet he did not mean to say that the
landlords in Ireland had not generally done their duty.
He 1, should be careful of any such expression,
but as a body there seemed to be some grounds for the
allegations against them. Yet, though allowing this,
he would not assert there were no exceptions to the 1
general rule. He did not mean to say that there
were no good landlords in Ireland ; he knew
that there were many that were excellent--
as ready to promote the welfare of their tenants
as to further the promotion of their own in-
terests. The majority of them were desirous, he
verily believed, to discharge their duties, but a
sixpenny rate in aid would be but a small
contribution to the necessities of the whole country; and
he only regretted that the poor-law for Ireland had been
advocated by the leading men in the House of Commons.
The Noble Lord at the head of the Government had pro-
pounded one plan, the Right Hon. Bart. the Member
for Tamworth another, and a third scheme was
advocated by the Hon. Member for Buckingham-
shire—all men justly renowned for the amount of their
influence, the extent of their attainments, and
the power of their abilities—justly renowned,
for they had fairly earned all the celebrity which they
enjoyed by the exertions which they had made for the
general benefit of the country—exertions, he believed,
honestly and justly made and as justly rewarded.
—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") He would not say
much more; but when the Noble Lord at the head of the
Government stated that it was but justice that Ireland
should bear an equal amount of taxation with this country,
he conceived that the carrying out of such a
principle would be a direct violation of the Act of Union.
He believed that that Act ought to be inviolably
observed—(Hear)—for if Ireland was to be deprived
of her inherent rights without an Act to repeal the
union—which he most fervently desired—without an
Act of repeal she ought not to be deprived of the few,
and he might say, insignificant advantages which had
accrued to the connexion. He also regretted that the
Right Honourable Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) had in-
dulged in the general phrases that Ireland should use
greater efforts ; for he know of no country that exerted
itself for the support of her poor more than Ireland ;
but he should make allowances for the prejudices against
that country, to which the first statesmen have been at
all times obliged to bow. Here the Honourable Gentle-
man entered into a lengthened comparison between Ire-
land on one side, and England and Scotland on the other.
The rate in aid coming on the back of other oppressive
taxes, would be sure to break down the rate-payers. If
there were Honourable Members anxious to apply the
produce of an income-tax to the relief of the poor,
here was an admirable opportunity for them to distin-
guish themselves by showing their attachment to that
principle. At a time when other statesmen were
looking about for holes and corners to hide themselves
in, he thought it most creditable to the Right Honour-
able Baronet the Member for Tamworth, that he should
have come forward and staked his reputation on a plan,
which was certainly good, though almost revolutionary
in its character. Money was the great difficulty, but
that was a difficulty for the Right Hon. Gentleman to
settle with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. There
was one point, however, on which he should be glad to
have more definite information. He wished to know
what provision was to be made in this plan against ab-
senteeism. In the plantation of James the First there
was a provision against absenteeism. Supposing this
settlement to be carried into effect without looking to
this point with a view to its being satisfactorily legis-
lated upon, and without making some provision for faci-
litating the granting of leases, they would find the old
system revive in its full strength, which they were so
anxious to amend. He thought that an excellent scheme
I might be framed from the various projects which had
been stated to the House in the course of this debate,
and that the House would do well to endeavour to in-
troduce into the Bill the principal recommendations
they contained.

Mr. CECIL LAWLESS said, he could not conceive
how the Government could call upon the House to carry
their measure, when he knew that public opinion was
against it. Gentlemen whom they had sent into Ireland
to procure information on the subject were unanimous
in condemning it. The people of England were now
quite accustomed to hear of the horrors of Irish famines,
Irish destitution, and Irish atrocities, and in a little time
.they would become quite indifferent to their impres-
sions. That, indeed, was the case already to a very great
extent. In the midst of all her difficulties, wants, and
despair, the Noble Lord at the head of the Government
sat with his arms folded, apparently an unconcerned
listener to the tales of misery wl ich were constantly
being related there. Why, even Nero took more trouble,
for he was said to have fiddled whilst Rome was burn-
ing.—(Great laughter.) He (Mr. Lawless) did not in
any degree approve of the measure, and should certainly
vote against it; and he trusted most earnestly that before
long he might see the days of the present wretched and
incompetent Government brought to a close.
Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON said that although he
did not object to the proposed amount of relief, yet :the
measure involved a principle of raising the necessary
means which he could not approve of. If the rate were
to be proposed at all, let it be proposed with equal pres-
sure on all kinds of Irish property, and not exclusively
en the agricultural community, which their recent legis-

lation had telreeil v hreieeht to the veree o' rein. Mee
Hon. sit-milers rept—sentine iciee conseeuenee , ,a:
that they wished to make Uta:era p irt of Ireland, he
cause they would then expect to see the rest ef lee-
land standing in the superior position eli•ch the pro-
vince of Ulster now occupied. Those Bon. Gentlemen,
however, seemed to forget that if Ulster were in a sus
perior position it was owing only to the superior industry
and self-reliance of its population; and he (Lord Claude
Hamilton) very much feared that if Ulster was to be
made a portion of Ireland, in the sense of the pliraee
which was contended by these Hon. Members, and if
that was to he done by the operation of this Bill,
that instead of raising Munster seal Connaught to the
prosperous level of Ulster, they would sink Ulster to
the level of misery of Munster and Connaught.—(Hear,
hear.) When the Hon. Gentleman spoke of the money
expended upon the casual Irish poor, coming to this
country, to seek employment, they passed by altogether
the large Irish fortunes which are spent in England—it
the Hon. Gentleman moved fur a return, to enable him
to strike a balance between the two accounts, he would
find a balance of millions in favour of Ireland; if they
rejected the poor man, they ought to take some account
of the rich men who spent their fortunes in this country.
While they maintained the union such arguments were
altogether out of place. If they thought the union was
a bal bargain, they ought to say so, and if they thought
proper get rid of it. They should also recollect that Ire-
land did not throw herself into the arms of England, but
that the union was brought about by the influence of
England—some said by extensive bribery.—(Hear.)These
observations taunting the ingress of the Irish poor
to look for labour, were inconsistent and illiberal, while
nothing was said of the expenditure of the rich Irish
landed proprietors, who resided in this country. With
regard to the rate in aid, he could not understand its
justice; but even if it was correct in principle, he had an
objection to it, on the ground of its inadequacy to meet
the evil, and also that it could not be limited to the pe-
riod proposed for its termination—two years. What he
sought for Ireland was, calm consideration and justice.
It should be recollected that Ireland had paid all the
burdens which this country had thought it just to im-
pose upon her, but they ought not, at a time of unpre-
cedented pressure and distress, impose additional
burdens, which the country was unable to bear. They
should also take into consideration that the poor-law
valuation was unequal, and therefore a national rate must
be partial and unjust. That this was the case was
proved by the evidence of Mr. Griffith, who was exa-
mined before the Poor-law Committee, and who was
well acquainted with the condition of Ireland, and upon
that ground the proposed rate would be unjust. The
poet had said—
" Hope springs eternal iu the human breast,
Man never is, but always to be blest."
Now, he might ask, when were they to have these reme-
dial measures which had bean so often promised? They
had once heard there were to be no more coercive mea-
sures, and that a policy would henceforth be practised
which would compensate for past neglect, and which
would raise Ireland to her proper position, and lay the
foundation of lasting prosperity.—(Hear, hear.) Was
the present a measure such as they had a right to ex-
pect after all those brilliant promises? Was it right to
tax one part of Ireland for the support of another, for
that would be the effect of the proposition? Until they
had laid down such a principle in England—until they
had shown in practice that distress in Sutherland was
to be relieved by a tax laid upon Yorkshire, they had
made out no case, and had not established a prin-
ciple upon which they could in fairness act, as they
were attempting to do. There was another thing also
in the case which had never been heard of in England,
namely, that the money raised by this tax was to be
placed under Government control. He contended that
nothing could be more unjust and unfair. He would
now call attention to the Act of the Legislative
Union, according to which it was provided that all
taxes levied in Ireland for special purposes, should be
paid into the Exchequer. He wanted to know why
a new principle should now be attempted to
be established. He wished also to impress upon
the House, that a great mistake prevailed as to
the great ability of the north of Ireland to bear taxa-
tion, as compared to the south and west. The difference
lay not in the soil or climate, but in the industry and
habits of the people. The Noble Lord then referred to
the difference in population and valuation in two coun-
ties, namely, Donegal and Clare, and stated that while
in the former there were eight unions, in all of which
the poor-law had been efficiently carried out, he found
that in Clare, with four unions, three were placed under
vice-guardians, and a debt had already been incurred of
28,000/. Now, he would ask the House, what would be
the feelings of the people in the district of Donegal if,
atter all their exertions and their dependence on their
own resources, they found their reward to be the pay-
ment of a tax of 6,0001. for the benefit of those dis-
tricts of the country placed in a different position?—
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord then referred to the lan-
guage which had been used by Lord Clarendon to depu-
tations on different occasions, and contended that the Irish
peOple had no right to expect that a measure such as
the present would have been proposed by her Majesty's
Government. It was not the amount of the rate he com-
plained of, but the principle of taking money for one
purpose and applying it to another. He feared that the
consequence of laying on the present rate would be, that
a difficulty would be found in collecting the ordinary
rate, if, as had been proposed, one fund should be mixed
with the other.—(Hear, hear.) He deprecated the
measure as being impolitic and unjust, and would, there-
fore, vote against it.
Mr. BROWN said it had been argued by some Honour-
able Members, that the sum which it was proposed to
raise by the rate inlaid should be borne by this country
as well as by Ireland. Now he complained of the con-
duct of some of the landlords of Ireland, .who, by their
evictions, had sent numbers of poor people into England,
which necessarily made an extra pressure on the poor-
rates of England. He did not see why Ireland
should not pay a property tax as well as Eng-
land did. If Ireland paid such a tax, then
there might be a claim such as that which Ireland was
now making. He should like to be a little better in-
formed with regard to some of the plans which were
shadowed forth by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert
Peel). For instance, he should be glad to know what
the Right Hon. Baronet meant by a Commission for the
sale of lands of embarrassed estates. If the commission
he contemplated was of a proper character, similar to
some which had been issued, he thought the plan might
be very beneficially carried out. This he would say,
that if the people of Ireland came forward in a proper
manner, he had no doubt that England would act in a
liberal spirit; but if they did not do so, he for his part
would not consent to vote away any public money.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD opposed the Bill,
because it gave the Poor-law Commissioners power to
levy a tax arbitrarily upon the whole of Ireland. lle
was not for England's sake an advocate for a measure
that violated the first principle of civil liberty,
which held that no taxation should be imposed
without representat on. He could not help giving his
warmest approbation to the admirable and eloquent
speech of the Noble Lord who had just sat down, and
which was worthy of an Irishman. It was said that Ire-
land did not pay her just proportion of taxation, bat if
that were so, it was a question fur the consideration of
the Imperial Parliament, and the Act of Union directed
that a re-adjustment of such taxation should be made if
necessary, in the proportion of her exports and imports.
If England said Ireland did not pay such proportion, let
an inquiry be entered into, and if such were the ease, he
for one should consent that a remedy be applied for such
an anomaly at once. At the present time Ireland paid
the proportion of one to eleven in taxation. He con-
tended that Ireland was never a drain on England, and
certainly not before the Union, when Viceroy after
Viceroy acknowledged with thanks, the liberal sup-
plies voted by the Irish Parliament to the contin-
gencies of the British Empire. In 1799 the
Marquis of Cornwallis called it an extraordinary supply
when 300,000/. was voted; and, as after that period
England got the management into her own hands, if
the finances were mismanaged, she had herself to blame,
and not the Irish people. He contended, that if a tax
were to be levied on Ireland, it should be paid into the
Imperial Exchequer, and paid out like other taxes; but
against the principle on which the rate in aid was to be
conducted, he protested. With regard to what had
been said by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth, in reference to the plantation of Ulster, the
great success of that undertaking was principally owing
to the agreement entered into between what were called
the " undertakers" and the tenantry located on the
estates. From the security of tenure thus given was the
prosperity of Ulster mainly owing; and he was of opinion
that, until a similar plan was introduced into the rest of
Ireland, all legislative measures must fail of producing
any good. As to the present measure, he would ask,
how could a miserable pittance of food given to the dis-
tressed poor relieve the condition of the country. He
thought it was dangerous to England to inflict injustice on
Ireland, because it must produce that discontent which
all good men wished to see allayed. He wanted either
to have a union with England or a repeal ; he wished
not to have a half sort of union—a union in name but
not in deed or spirit—the continuance of it could not be
beneficial to either. It was not the interest of England
to have Ireland in a wretched condition, for if that were
so, she would ultimately be her ruin and downfall. He
wasßrßritish
(Lip proesperd, es
oonnt
at ht
ievsee,
eo uwnodusi,
dt
nao
trate ian apiadr,tayndtoasana
advance of money on such security as a rate in aid.
Sir D. NORREYS was an admirer of the people of
Ulster ; but on this occasion they were more English
than Irish, for they refused to pay a moderate tax when
called on to do so, in support of their fellow country-
men. Ireland was absolutely ruined at that moment.
The landlords were selling their land—the farmers emi-
grating to America—the lands going to waste—the people
starving and dying with hunger—and yet it was at such
a time the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Tam-
worth said they were called on in Ireland to make an
exertion. When the poor-law was first introduced in
Ireland its charge was not to exceed 300,0001., and yet
it amounted, last year, to 1,700,0001., after a loss of
capital, by the disastrous visitation which affected
the country, amounting to upwards of 28.000,0001.
In his (sir D. Norreys') neighbourhood, there
was 2,600 acres of land out of cultivation at that mo-
ment, and even when it was cultivated the wages paid to
labourers were not in money but in potatoes. If England
refused to aid them what were they to do ? or wi re
the people to be allowed to starve ? lion. Gentlemen
said so great was their objection to the rate in aid that
they would prefer an income-tax. Now he had been all
his life accustomed to hear his countrymen say they
would shed their blood on a scaffold, or lay their heads
on a block, before they would do so•and-so, but the fact
was that those expressions should bo taken as more in-
dicative of their energy than of a wish to do either of
those dreadful alternatives.—(A laugh.) And so it was
with those who objected to a rate in aid. But he wanted
to know from the Gentlemen who talked of an income-
tax, what they meant by it ? Was it merely an incsme-
tax for Irish purposes, or did they wish the
English income-tax to be extended to Ireland ?

rT,- !lad listnneri in ',in
t• em. A:i

r.tte in aid was an e:vrern-ly in(!onvement toing.
An in2,rne-tax, fOr merely ash purposes w,uld only
IT111.;r4) the Poor•law burden:; from the purposes, w,
to
other shoulders ; while, if the English income-tax was
extended to Ireland, it would be a most Hibernian mode
1)f eseapinc, that they should, to avoid a burden of
take a tax of upwards of 1,000,000/.—(ffi,ar,
h:•:tr.) fEs main difficulty with the rate in
id was,' t•lat it was not sufficieni ly large, nu eiglii,-
p-nny or nine-penny rate would be mere tfficacious.
But he supported this rate because it was a just tax. No
on, district in Ireland was responsible for its pauperism,
and therefore all should contribute fairly to its sup-
port.—(Hear.) One great cause of the Pauperism was
to be found in the frequent evictions which took place
immediately after the close of the war, and the conse-
quent falling of prices. 'rho landlords were then
brought into immediate connexion with thf•ir estates,
and finding them over-peopled by the middle-men,
they cleared these estates, and the parties so evicted
were obliged to resort to inferior lands. Another great
cause was the abolition of the 40s. freeholders in 1829,
and while these changes had been highly beneficial
to the more wealthy districts, it had, of course, propor •
tionably increased the burdens of the poorer districts.
For these reasons, therefore, he was of opinion that the
poor rate should be levied as generally as was compa-
tible with the prevention of abuses in the administi•ation
of the funds. With respect to the improvement of Ire-
land by introducing a new race of landlords, he looked
upon that as entirely hopeless. There was one peculiar
feature in these cases, that where the greatest amount of
pauperism was to be found, the means of relieving it
were smallest ; and, therefore, any hope of these dis-
tricts being able to contribute anything towards their
own relief would be attended with disappointment.—
(Hear, hear.) In unions and electoral divisions, where
the annual valuation of property -to each head of
the population was 1/. 195., the rates were
4s. Sd., while in Kanturk and Listowel, where the
valuations were as low as 275. Id., the rates were as high
as Bs. to 9s. Under such circumstances he thought it
was hopeless to expect that capitalists would invest
money in such districts. Much had been said about
the rate in aid being an oppressive tax, but he took issue
with Hon. Members, and totally denied that it was so.
—(Hear, hear.) On one point his opinions had changed.
He was formerly opposed to putting any tax upon ab-
sentees, but further consideration had led him to the
conclusion, that absenteeism was a great evil, and he
was now of opinion, that a tax for the benefit of the
electoral division or union, should be levied on all rents
sent out of the country, in order to make up to such di-
vi,ions or unions the loss caused by the absence of the
landlords who drew these rents. The principles laid
down by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam-
worth and the Hon. Member (Mr. Bright) with respect
to the unfeudaliaing of the soil, had his most hearty
adhesion and support. He believed that it' the Right
Hon. Baronet would add to his proposed commission the
principle of abolishing entails, and freeing the transfer
of land from all unnecessary restrictions, it would do
more for the permanent benefit of Ireland than any Mi-
nistry or Government could by possibility effect. For
years he bad advocated the free and unchecked develop'
ment of the resources of Ireland, as the only mode of
really promoting the prosperity of that country, and he
earnestly hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert
Peel) and the Hon. Member (Mr. Bright) would per-
severe in urging this great question upon the attention of
Parliament. In conclusion, he had to say that he ap-
proved of the rate in aid, and especially of the proposal
of a maximum and the exemption of improvements from
the rate. If these two details were carried, with some
minor improvements in Committee, the measure of the
Government should have his hearty support, under the
belief that it was calculated to meet the existing difficul'
ties in Ireland.

Mr. MONSELL admitted that Ireland was bound to
make a great and independent exertion; but that exer-
tion ought not to be made in the impolitic manner
pointed out by her Majesty's Ministers. When he con-
sidered the mass of evidence urged against the measure
by Mr. Senior, Mr. Gulston, and Mr. Twisleten, who
resigned the important post of Chief Commissioner of
Poor•laws, rather than participate in the administra.
Pion of so obnoxious a tax as the rate in aid, he felt
really surprised that Government should persevere i 0
pressing this measure on the consideration of
the House—a measure which would prove in-
adequate, and was without any precedent. It was
absurd, in a season of great distress and privation, to
think of meeting the requirements of Ireland by
the operation of the Poor-law Act alone. The Noble
Lord at the head of the Government had announced ail
intention of making advances for the purposes of rail.
ways; bet the 300,0001. which Government proposed to
give would not construct more than eighty miles of line,
and not more than one-third of that sum would be ex'
pended on the employment of labour. He called the
attention of the House to the dreadfully distressed con-
dition of tho country, and pointed particular attention to
the fact, that large numbers of farmers with capital
were leaving Ireland as emigrants, and that was the
most destructive species of emigration for the country,.
The system now going on in Ireland was admirably cal'
culated to aggravate the existing distress, and it struck
him that the conduct of Ministers was directed rather to
obtaining majorities in that House, and carrying on the
government of the country, than to devising plans for
meeting the destitution of Ireland. Under the peculiar cif'
cumstances of Ireland, it was no wonder that the propo'
sition of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tarn'
worth had created a great and profound sensatioe
among the Irish people. The speech of the Noble Lord
at the head of the Government, with respect to the fu'
ture prospects of Ireland, was one of the most hopeless
and cheerless he had ever heard. If; as the Noble Lord
recommended, things should be allowed to go on as they
were, they might depend on it England would suffer as
well as Ireland.

Mr. HORSMAN observed upon the improved condi;
tion in which the Irish question now stood as compared
with former years. When the Government proposed the
last grant of 50,0001. for Ireland he had voted in the me'
jority, but there was a vast difference between a tempo'
rary expedient and a permanent system. The adoption
of the present measure, he thought, would only amount
to a postponement of the evil hour, and he could sag
that as Ireland suffered from an Imperial calamity, it
would be neither just nor wise to throw the relief of tIA
distressed districts on the less afflicted provinces. The
rate in aid system destroyed economy, diminished in'
dustry, and discouraged improvement. Cruel as were
some portions of their Irisn legislation, he knew none
more cruel than the attempt to destroy one province of
Ireland in the vain effort to support, or rather perpetuate
the miseries of another. What claim had Connaught fa
support on Ulster, that Ulster could not fairly urge on
Middlesex? As yet no answer had been given, except
the answer to be found in the speeches of the members
of Government, namely, that both Ulster and Connaught
were in Ireland. The great object aimed at was improve'
meats in Ireland, and that must chiefly be obtained b 9
means of agriculture. But one great means for for:
warding that improvement was that the agriculturist
should know the worst that could befal him, that WI
should know what he had to do, what taxes he had to
pay, what burdens were to be inflicted on him, in ordel
that he might make his calculations correctly. The rate
in aid, however, would prevent him from doing that.
In
this rate in aid he could see nothing to give security
that more and larger grants would not be required 14:4
Ireland. Certainly in the speech of the Noble Lord at
the, head of the Government, last night, there was but
little encouragement held out. What the Noble Lore
said was neither satisfactory nor statesmanlike. As re",
garded the present measure, the only thing which cowl)
justify Parliament in passing it, would be that it was a
part of a comprehensive scheme for the benefit of Ire'
land. Were there any prospects of the other portion!
•f that scheme making their appearance, they might pill
up for a time with this bad portion of it, in the prospee'
that they were about to get a better. There was, bon"
ever, no prospect of that. The Right Hon. Gentleman
the Member for Tamworth, though he stated 1164
would support the measure, had something of tbn;
idea in his mind, for he had thrown out
some most valuable suggestions, which, from the big
character of that Right Hon. Gentleman, were well
entitled to consideration, and had stated that he did not
despair but that out of this disastrous state of affairs better
times might arise in Ireland. Ho should like to knee
then, if Government were not prepared to give them
comprehensive measure at present, whether they ha
fully studied the question, and wera alive to its import'
name? He would nut be unreasonable with the Govern'
ment, but he thought they had a right to know whethe,l,
before this rate in aid was agreed upon by them, al;
other suggestions thrown out for the improvement
Ireland had been discussed and considered. None °1
these taken alone might have benefited Ireland, leni,
conjoined they might have done so. One of these sug'
gestions was a large emigration scheme, another th°
improvement of waste lands, and another giving aid t 4
railways; but there was nothing to show that all these,
had been fully considered, and that the rate in aid btl
been taken as a last resource. The principle of thii
measure was said to be one of dire necessity. 1i
,1
was said that no relief could be had from Englanti
and, therefore, Ireland must help herself. But although
there might be some disappointment on the part of tbt
people of England as to the manner their liberal contri'
butions to Ireland had been treated, yet that disappoint'
me nt did not so much arise from anything the peoPl‘
of Ireland had done, as from the useless and unprofitable
manner in which their munificent contributions had been
applied. Let the Ministry come forward with a scheme,
which would bear evidence on the face of it that it won''
benefit Ireland, and guaranteeing that it would be walj,
would
and efficiently worked out, the people of England
be as ready to contribute as ever.—(Hear, hear.) Shot'',
the present measure pass, it would cause defiance and
ill-feeling in those districts where there was now loyaltY
and order. And should Government succeed in doing
that, they would have done their best to have filled 01)
the cup of Irish misery and English crimo.—(Hear.)
Sir A. BROOKE denied that the ratepayers of Ire.
land had repudiated their obligations in respect to the
poor-law. He could assure the House, that in the dis'
trict and union with which he was connected there was
not one shilling due by;the proprietors of the land in the
district in that respect. With regard to the Right Son'
Gentleman's plan he entirely approvedof most of it, and
should like to see it carried out. If there was a gee'
tleman in Europe capable of carrying it out it was the
Right Hon. Gentleman, and the Right Hon. Gentlemil,
ought to go over to Ireland to see it carried out himself
in the understanding, however, that he should not return
until he saw his plan in full and satisfactory operation'
—(Laughter.) He objected to the rate in aid system al
unjust to the ratepayers, as it placed rich and poor, the
landed proprietor and the small tenant, in the same
categery. The valuation under which it was to be
levied was also unfair, and taken as a whole, it would
injure instead of benefiting Ireland. He thought that !"
would be better if the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell)
would allow the few instalments due for the building c'.l
workhouses for the relief of the poor of Connaught and

Munster, rather than this rate in aid; or let tilere be
fair income-tax as far as it is just and • •
on the landlords; but let not sueh a uf,ju,s tax uL lin
posed on the industrious poor of Ulster.— (]fear, liar.)
Mr. REYNOLDS was prepared to support the present
measure, but very reluctantly, for if he could avoid the
vote he would avoid it, but it was because (f the awful
distress of the people.—(Laughter and cheers.) He un-
derstood those cheers, but should explain his meaning,
and he would, therefore, say, that it was on the same
principle of necessity that he suppor,ed it as others on
the opposite were against it. He had proved his since•
rity, though he had been accused of the want of it by
his dividing the House on his motion on that question,
when he had been deserted by the Hon. and Gallant
Gentleman (Major Blackall), and the Hon. Member
for Kerry (Mr. H. Herbert), who had given notice of a
motion to saddle the income-tax on the people of Ire.
land ; but he believed that that Honourable Member
(Mr. Herbert) wished to throw that tax from the shoul-
ders of the landlord on those of the shopkeepers. He
then alluded to the speech of the Honourable Member
for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli), as being one that
proved a thorough ignorance of the geography and c.n-
dition of Ireland. He thought it most unjust and inhu-
man for
the people of Ulster to refuse this sixpenny
rate in aid, as if the property and loyalty of Ireland
were confined to that province, but he could assure
Honourable Gentlemen from Ulster that such was not
the case, for Connaught and Munster, no less than Lein-
ster, were generally as wealthy and as loyal as Ulster.
He then alluded to the Act for the improvement of the
Shannon, and said that the Honourable Member for Ros-
common (Mr. French) had taken 12,0001 from the Con-
solidated Fund, and as much more from twelve counties,
some of which had no connexion whatever with that
noble river, and asked the House was not that a rate in
aid?—(Laughter.)
Major BLACKALL said that he did not propose that
the income-tax should be extended in all its integrity to
Ireland, such as it is in England, but that the neces-
sary provision should be made for the poor by those who
had it in their power to relieve distress, and did not do
so.—(Hear, hear.) He certainly thought that an in-
come-tax was much more easily got rid of than a rate
in aid, when once imposed, but he should very =eh
object to an income-tax extended in all its integrity to
Ireland. Being without a detail of the expenditure, or
the application of the money, he should vote that night
against the rate in aid, but he should be most willing in
any way to consent to a fair amount of Imperial taxa-
tion in Ireland.

Mr. FRENCH explained that Sir John Burgoyne had
given it as his opinion that the improvement of the
Shannon, being a national object, should be defrayed by
a national rate. The Bill had been drawn up in accord-
ance with that opinion.
Mr. TENNENT said he should vote against this most
unhappy measure of her Majesty's Government. He
thought that, least of all, this should be made a question
of religion. It was a constitutional question of the
greatest consequence, and he could assure the Govern.
ment that, at the bottom of a great deal of apparently
superficial talking, there was a great deal of determined
resolution that was hostile to it. If Imperial taxation
were not properly assessed in Ireland, he would assert
that the Government were not entitled to balance one
evil by another, in the manner they contemplated, and
which he earnestly hoped they would abandon—(Hear.)
Mr. HENRY DRUMMOND said that, under the
name of a rate in aid he conceived that the question might
be asked,whether this was a rate to increase pauperism or
diminish it? From the Government blue book he might
infer that it was a rate to increase it. Thinking so, he
rose to propose three things. First, to make the unions
support themselves. It was nonsense to talk of a labour-
market in Ireland, for there was none; and if they
would only set a plain English farmer to teach the Irish
to he was sure they would do a great deal of good.
In the second place, he would recommend a sound sys-
tem of emigration, and in the last, to get rid of middle-
men, who were the real evil.

Captain ARCIIDALL briefly addressed the House
against the Bill, giving-tho Go►ernment full credit for
their courage in propounding and pursuing it.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading
Against it

Majority for Ministers... --55
The Bill was then read a second time and ordered to
be committed.
LABOUR-RATE IN IRELAND.
Mr. P. SCROI'E moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
promote the employment of labourers in Ireland by a
proportionate exemption from poor-rate.
Mr. STAFFORD opposed the introduction of a mea-
sure involving a very material change in the poor-law of
Ireland by any private Member. If any such change
were necessary it ought to be made on the responsibility
of the Government, and what he wished to know was,
whether the Government, by sanctioning the introduc-
tion of the Bill, were willing to adopt the principle of a
labour-rate?

Lord J. RUSSELL confessed that he should not have
been disposed to offer any opposition to the Honourable
Member for Stroud bringing in this Bill, but the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Stafford) having raised the question by
thinking it necessary to oppose the Bill in the first in
stance, he (Lord J. Russell) owned that he was quite
opposed to the principle of the measure—(Hear)—and,
therefore, it the House should be called upon to give a
decision upon it to-night, he must give his vote in oppo-
sition to the introduction of the Bill.
Mr. P. SCROPE considered it rather hard that the
principle of the Bill should be decided upon before a
single word had fallen from him as to what that princi-
ple was, or what the Bill itself contained. He had pur-
posely abstained from addressing the House, because
the lateness of the hour would not admit of his entering
into a vindication of the principle of the measure. He
hoped the House would extend to him the usual in-
dulgence, and a'low the Bill to be brought in and read a
first time, reserving a discussion of its principle to the
second reading.
Mr. MANGLES hoped the Hon. Gentlemen would
persist in pressing his motion.
Colonel DUNNE, although often differing from the
Hon. Member for Stroud, was nevertheless certain that
his object was to bring forward a measure that would be
useful to Ireland; he, therefore, thought it desirable that
the Bill should be laid before the House.
Sir It. PEEL observed that there were some Bills so
objectionable in principle, and so utterly unworthy of
consideration, as to make it quite right to refuse their
being brought in, but he must say that the present state
of Ireland might demand some such remedy as that
which was now proposed ; and, considering the great
and disinterested labours which the Hon. Gentleman
had devoted to all questions connected with the interests
of the poor and destitute of Ireland, and remembering
the obloquy to which he had exposed himself, he (Sir
R. Peel) did think that an opportunity should be given
to the Hon. Gentleman to explain his proposition, in-
stead of the Bill being hastily rejected that night. But
he would suggest to the Hon. Gentleman that he had
better withdraw his notice now, and put it for some day
when that opportunity might be afforded him. If how-
ever, the lion. Gentleman persisted in bringing in the
Bill to-night, he should cordially support the motion fur
his doing so.

After—a
few words from Mr. FRENCII and Major
BLACYALL in favour of the motion,
Sir G. GREY remarked that it was an unusual thing
to bring in a Bill without the House being made aware
of the nature of its provisions; he, therefore, hoped the
Ron. Gentleman would adopt the suggestion of the
sight Hon. Baronet and withdraw his motion, and take
another opportunity of stating what was the precise ob-
ject of his Bill.

- Mr. H. HERBERT objected to the Bill being intro-
,duced, as it would excite hopes in Ireland which were
-certain to be disappointed.
Mr. OSBORNE thought it better to excite hope in
ireland than despair, and considered it most ungracious
to refuse the lion. Gentleman an opportunity of explain-
ing his measure.
Mr. P. SCROPE wished to defer to the feeling of the
House, and would, if it were their pleasure, withdraw his
ustion—(Cries of " No! no!" •• Yes! yes!")—otherwise
be would persist in pressing it to a division.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
During our ab.ence we understood that Lord J. RUS-
SELL urged the Hon. Mk mber for Northamptonshire not
to divide the House against the introduction of the Bill,
and intimated that, i' be persisted in doing so. he (Lord
John Russell) would vote with the Hon. Member for
Stroud.

The House then divined; when there appeared—
For the introduction of the Bill ... 108
Against it _ ... ... 15

-93

Majority...
SUNDAY TRAINS.
Mr. FORBES presented a petition from Stirlingshire,
against the compelling the running of railway trains on
Sundays.
Mr. LOCKE then moved for leave to introduce a Bill
to secure to the public, on Sundays, a limited and rea-
sonable use of the railways which conveyed passengers
on the other days of the week. He remarked, that the
petitions which had been presented and the agitation
which had taken place on this subject were quite beside
the object of his simple Bill, which had been very much
misconceived in Scotland. Its object merely was to se-
cure that the railways should carry passengers in those
trains which were used fur the conveyance
and post letter-bags on the Sundays. There of the mails
was nothing
for the in it inimical to a proper feeling of respect
Sab-
bath as a day of rest, or which was
inconsistent with
hoped, Christian principles.—(Hear, hear.) He
there-
fore, that the House would allow the Bill to be intro-
duced and printed, that its merits, whatever they were,
might be made known to the public during the recess.
Mr. FORBES said that the people of Scotland wer
perfectly well aware of the nature of the Hon. Gentle-
man's proposal, and were strongly and conscientiously
opposed to it. Ile hoped the Government would not
sanction the measure. He objected to the introduction
of the Bill.
Mr. COWAN begg.id to say that he felt the strongest
t9Asiblq objection to the Bill, but he hoped the Hon.
Member for Stirlingshire would not put the House to
the trouble of dividing against it at that late hour.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that at an early period of
the session he had stated, in reply to a question from
the lion. Member for Honiton (3lr. Locke), that al-
though, speaking for himself, he believed it was quite
consistent with a due observance of the sanctity of the
Sabbath to allow, under proper restrictions and regula-
tions, the running of railway trains on Sundays, and that
he hoped to see this opinion prevail in Scotland, yet he
was not prepared, on the part of the Government, to
bring in a 13ill to compel railway companies, in contra-
diction of what he believed and knew to be an opinion
strongly entertained by a large class of the community
in Scotland, to take that course. lie still entertained
very great doubts whether it was expedient to do so.
He was inclined to think that they would be more likely
to at:oomph-di the object of seeing passengers conveyed,
as now in England, on Sundays as well as on other days,
under ouch restrictions and regulations as would pre-
serve the sanctity of the Sabbath, which was so honour-
able a characteristic of Scotland, by leaving the matter

' to the discretion and sense of the railway comp:lnks
of. Soot,LrAJ , tyy a.t-rrtrin:, lo•c.
upon on ar, hear.)
Under these circumstances. ho could net plodge himself
to vote for the twconWng reading of the Bill; but, at the
same time, he thought it would be ungracious to the
Hon. Gentleman who propoAed it. especially as he had
stated that his views had boc.n misrepresented, not to
allow him to have it put in a shape for circulation in Scot-
land.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. G. DUNCAN born testimony to the strong feel-
ing which prevailed in Scotland against the Bill; but
thought that, if its provisions were known, there would
be less objection to
After a few words from Mr. STAFFORD, ridiculing
the conduct of Government in voting for the introduction
of Bills to which they were professedly opposed,
Mr. MANGLES was sorry the Hon. Member for
Northatnptonshire had not yet recovered from the effect
of the late division. A noble lady had not been able
to come up to attend the deathbed of her father, in con-
sequence of the regulations of a railway in the north.
Parliament had given the railways a monopoly, and no
free-trader ever objected to regulate monopolies.
Mr. S. WORTLEY would vote against the Bill, which
interfered both with private property and with the rights
of conscience.

Sir G. GREY reminded the Right Hon. Gentleman
that all railways were compelled to carry the mails or.
Sunday. The principle on which the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman objected to the Bill as an interference with the
rights of property implied an abdication, on the part of
that House, of the right to control railways. He was
not prepared to legislate in opposition to the strong
feeling of Scotland; but the object of the Bill was dif-
ferent from that which was supposed in the petitions pre-
sented on the subject.

Mr. E. ELLIa objected to a compulsory measure.
The company on whose line a noble lady had been
prevented from travelling had since rescinded their re-
gulation.

Mr. SEYMER could not support a compulsory Bill.
Mr. AGLIONBY supported the Bill. It was said to
be an interference with private property and the rights
of conscience. But railways had been formed by a most
glaring infringement of private property; and the inter-
ference with the rights of conscience was on the part of
the railway proprietors, and those Seotchmen who re-
fused to allow Sunday trains.
Sir E. BUXTON objected to a Bill intended to force
people to do that to which they conscientiously objected.
Mr. DRUMMOND—The whole of this case of con-
science in Scotland, it seems, resolves itself into the
question whether there should be one or two carriages in
a Sunday train.—(Laughter.)
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion ... ••• ••• 58
Against it ... ... 20
Majority .. . —3B
_

Mr. HUME obtained leave Co bring in a Bill to es-
tablish county financial boards for the adminstration of
county rates and expenditure in England and Wales,
which was afterwards brought in.
Sir G. GREY, in the absence of Lord J. Russell, ob-
tained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Acts relating
to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners for England, which
was afterwards brought in.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL brought in the Ad-
mini.tration of Justice Bill, and the Portugal Treaties
Stipulation Bill.
The House adjourned at Two o'Clock.

PARLIAMEN TARP DIVISIONS.

(From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons. j

TUESDAY, APRIL 3.

POOR-LAWS (IRELAND—RATE IN AID) BILL.
Order for Second' Reading; read ; Motion made, and Ques-
tion proposed, •That the Bill be now read a second time."
Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " now," and at
the end of the Question to add the words "upon this day
six months:"—Question put, " That the word ' now' stand
part of the Question." The House divided :
MAJORITY—AYES, 193.
Abdy. T. N. Goddard, A. L. Pechell, Captain
Acland, Sir T. Graham, Sir James Peel,.Sir Robert
Adair, it. Shafto Greene Thomas Peel, Frederick
Aglionby, IL Grenfell, C. Pascos Peto, Samuel
Anderson, Arthur Grey, Sir G. Pigott, Francis
♦nson, Colonel Grosvenor, Earl Plowden, W. 11. •
Amon, Viscount Guest, Sir J. Price, Sir Robert
Armstrong, Sir A. Hallyburton, Lord Pryse, Pryse
Armstrong, R. B. Harcourt, G. Pusey, Philip
Ashley, Lord llardcastle, J. A. Reid. Colonel
Bagshaw, John Ilastie, Archibald Reynolds, John
Baines, M. T. Hawes, B. Ricardo, Osman
Baring, Sir F. Hay, Lord John Rice, E R.
Baring, Thomas Hayter, W. G. Rich, Henry
Bass, M. T. Headlam, T. E. Romilly, Sir John
Bellew, R. M. Henry, Alexander Rumbold, C. E.
Berkeley, Captain Heywood, James Rushout, Captain
Berkeley, H. Ileyworth, Lawrence Russell, Lord J.
Berkeley, C. L. G. Ilindley, C. Russell, F. C. 11.
Bernal, Ralph llobhouse, Sir John Sanders, George
Birch, Sir T. llobhouse, T. B. Scholefield, William
Bouverie, E. P. nogg, Sir J. W. Seymer,:Henry Ker
Boyle, Colonel Hope, H. T. Seymour, Lord
Bramston, T' W. Howard, Lord E. Shea., R. D .
Bright, John Howard, C_ W. G. Sheil, R. L.
Brocklehurst, J. Hume, Joseph Smith, R. V.
Brotherton, J. Jervis, Sir John Smith, J. A.'
Brown, W. Johnstone, Sir J. Smith, M. Tucker
Browne, It. D. Keppel, G. T. Smith, J. Benjamin
Bruce, Lord E. Kershaw, James Smollett, A.
Banbury, E. H. Kildare,:Marquis of Somers, J. P.=
Busfeild, W. King, P. J. Somerville, Sir W.
Buxton, Sir E. Labouchere, Henry Strickland, Sir G.
Cardwell, Edward Lascelles, W. S. Stuart, Lord Dudley
Carter, J. B. Lewis, Sir T. Stuart,. Lord J.
Cavendish, G. IL Lewis, G. C. Tancred, H. W.
Childers, J. W. Locke, Joseph Thicknesse, R. A.
Clay, James Lygon, General Thompson, Colonel
Clay, Sir W. Mackinnon, W. Thompson, George
Clerk, Sir G. M'Cullagh, W. T. Thornely, Thomas
Cobden, It. M'Gregor, John Towneley, John
Collins, W. Mahon, O'Gorman Townley, R. G.
Copeland, Alderman Mangles, R. D. Townshend, Captain
Cowper, W F. Marshall, J. G. Turner, G. J.
Craig, W. G. Matheson, Alex. Villiers, Charles
Denison, W. J. Matheson, Colonel Wall, C. B.
Duncan, George Maule, Fox Walmsley, Sir J.
Dundas, Admiral Melgund, Viscount Walter, John
Ebrington, Lord Mitchell, A. T. Ward, H. G.
Ellice, Edward Moffatt, George Watkins, Colonel
Ellice, E., jun. Moore, G. H. Wellesley, Lord C.
Ellis, John Morrie, David Westhead, J. P.
Elliot, John E. Mostyn, E. Wilcox, Brodie
Emlyn, Viscount Mowatt, Francis Williams, John
Enfield, Viscount Mure, Colonel Williamson, Sir H.
Evans, Sir Do Lacy Norreys, Lord Wilson, James
Evans, William Norreys, Sir D. Wilson, Matthew
Ewart, William O'Connor, FearglLS Wood, Sir Charles
Fagan, William Ogle, S. C. Wood, W. P.
Fergus, John Ossulton, Lord Wyld,)James
Ferguson, Col. Owen, Sir J. Wyvill, Marmaduke
Fordyce, A. D. Paget, Lord A.
Forster, M. Paget, Lord George TELLERS.
Fortescue, J. W. Palmerston, Viscount Hill, Lord Marcus
Fox, W. J. Parker, Jolla GI ey, R. W.
Glyn, G. C. Patten, W.

MINORITY-NOES, 138.
Adair, Hugh E. Fitzpatrick, J W. Milton, Viscount
Adderley, C. B. Fitawilliam, G. W Monadll, William
Alexander, N. Forbes, Wm. Morgan, 11. K.
Archdall, Captaii2 Fortescue, Chichester Mundy, William
Arkwright, George Fox, R. M. Napier, Joseph
Bagge, W. Fox, S. L. Newdegate, C. N.
Baldock, E. 11. French, F. Nugent, Sir Percy
Baldwin, C. B. Fuller, A. E. O'Brien, Sir Lucius
Barron, Sir 11. Gaskell, J. M. O'Flaherty, Anthony
Bateson, T. Gore, W. R. 0. Osborne, Ralph
Beresford, William Goulburn, Henry Pigot, Sir R.
Blackall, S. W. Grace, 0. D. Repton, G. W. J.
Blackstone, W. S. Granby, Marquis of Richards, Richard
Blake, Martin J. Greene, John Rulford, Francis
Bolder°, Henry Grogan, Edward Sadleir, John
Bourke, Richard S. liaggitt, F. it. Sandars, Joseph
Bowles, Admiral Raiford, Sir H. Scott, Francis
Boyd, John Hall, Colonel Scrope, G. P.
Broadley, 11. Hamilton, J. IL Scully, Francis
lirooke, Sir A. B. Hamilton, Lord C. Sidney, Alderman
liruen, Colonel Harris, Captain Simeon, John

huller, Sir J. Y. Ilayea, Sir E.
Somerset, Captain
Burroughes, H. N. Herbert, Henry A. Spooner, R.
_ .

Callaghan, P. 'ferries, John C. - , --
Stafford, Augustus
Castlereagh, Visc. Hervey, Lord A. Stanley, 11. H.
Caulfeild, J. 31. Horsman, Edward Stephenson, Robert
Chandos, Marquis Howard, Sir R. Stuart, J. -
Chichester, Lord J. Jocelyn, Viscount Sullivan, Michael
Christy, Samuel Jolliffe, Sir W. G. Sutton, Henry

. .
Clements, Charles Jones, Captain Taylor, T. E.
Clive, IlenryFt. Keogh, William Tenison,, E K.

Cobbold, J. C.

Ker, Rickard

Tennent, R. J.

Cocks, 'Thomas S. Knightley,Sir:C. Thesiger, Sir F.
Cole, H. A. Knox, Colone Trevor, G. U.
Colebrooke, Sir T. Lawless, Cecil Tyrell, Sir J. T.
Conolly, Thomas Lennard, T. B. Verner, Sir W.

. ,
Clifton, J.J. Lincoln, Earl of Vesey, T.
Crawford, W. S. Lockhart, W. Vyse, R. 11.
Darner, Colonel Lang, Walter Waddington, 11. S.
Dawson, T. V. Lopes, Sir Ralph Walpole, Spencer
Dick, Quintin Lowther, Henry Williams, T. P.
Drummond, Henry M'lcagkten, Sir E. Willoughby, Sir 11.
Dunne, Francis P. Meagher, Thomas Wortley, J. S.
Egerton, Sir P. Mahon, Viscount Young, Sir John
Esicourt, J. B. B. Manners, Lord G. TELLER.
Fellowes, E. Maxwell, J. P. Hamilton, G._A.
Ferguson, Sir R. Meux, Sir 11. Corry, 11.

EMPLOYMENT OF LABOUR (IRELAND.)
Motion made, and Question put, " That leave be given to
bring in a BRA to promote the employment of Labour in
Ireland, by a proportionate exemption from Poor•rate." The
House divided

MAJORITY—AYES, 108.
Aglionby, 11. A. French, F. Paget, Lord A.
Anderson, Arthar Gaskell, J. M. Palmer, Roundell
Armstrong, R. H. Grace, 0. D. Palmerston, Vis.
Baines, M. T. Greene, John Parker, John
Baring, Sir F. 'P. Grenfell, C. Pascoe Peel, Sir Robert
Bass, M. T. Grey, Sir G. Peel, Frederick
Bellew, R. M. Grey, R. W. Peto, Samuel
Berkeley, CaptaVt Hastie, Archibald Pigott, Francis
Berkeley, C. L. Hawes, Benjamin Pryse, Pryse
Bernal, Ralph Heywood, James Reynolds, John
Birch, Sir Thomas Hey-worth, L. Ricardo, Osman
Blackall, S. W. Hill, Lord Marcus Rich, Henry
Blake, M. J. Hindley, Charles Romilly, Sir John
Boldero, 11. G. Hobhouse, T. B. Russell, Lord J.
Bouverie, E. P. Horsman, E. Russell, F. C.
Brotherton, J. Howard, Lord E. Sandars, J.
wOl, Edward Jervis,nome,
Bunbury, E. H. Howard, C. W. Schelefleld, W.
Buxton, sir E. Joseph Seymer, H. K.
(lard •
Sir John Smith, J. A.
Childers, J. w,
Clerk Sir G. Keppel, George T. Somerville, Slr W.
Cobbold, John C. Kershaw, James Spooner, Richard
Cowan, Charles
Labouchere, Henry Stuart, Lord 0.
Cowper, W. F. Lascelles, W. S. Stuart, Lord J.
Lincoln, Earl of Sullivan, Michael
Craig, W. G. Locke, Joseph
31`Cutlagh, W. T. Tentson, IL. K.
lhicknesse;Clot,
Denison, W. J. Lockhart, W.
Drummond, Ilkiltry
loAn'el
Duncan, George, Mahon, O'GormanThompson,
Thornely, T.
F. P
Dunne, P. Matheson, Colonel Townshed, Captain
Ebrington, Viscount Melgund, Viscount Vesey, Hon. T.
Egerton, Sir P • Mena, Sir Henry Westhead ,J. P.
Ellice, Edward Moffatt, George Willoughby, sir 11.
Ellis, John Morris, David Wilson, James
Elliot, John Norreys, Sir D. Woretly, j, s,
TELLERS.
Fordyce, A. D. Nugent, Sir Percy
Estcourt, J. B. B.
Scrope,. .
Ogle, S. C.
G. P.
Fortescue, J. W. Osborne, Ralph Mangles, R. D.

MINORITY—NOES, 15.
Adderley, C. B, forbes, W. Taylor, T. E.
Baldock, E. H. Granby, Marquis of Verner, Sir W.
Bourke, It. S. Grogan, Edward Young, Sir John
Baler, Sir Y. Magan, NV. U. TELLERS.
Christy, Samuel Somerset, Captain Stafford, Augustus
Conolly, Thomas Stanley, E. H. Herbert, 11. A.

Contents •of Sunday's Observer, April 1 :--Ten
folio columns of the Trial of Rush, to Saturday night ;
three folio columns of Parochial Proceedings at Meryl°.
bone, Pancrce4;, and Paddington ; one column of the
Liverpool lquirder ; one column of the Fire at the
Olympic Th are ; Society of British Artists, a column
and a half ; the probable Summary of the Quarter's
Revenue ; '3OO Births. Marriages, and Deaths ; about
100 us.eful :tdvertisements, including the Public Amuse-
ments ; arid sixteen folio columns of Miscellaneous
News. Ne xt Sunday, April 8, to render Rush's Trial
complete irr. the two Observers, a gratuitous supplement
will be pub lis)aed.

THE STANFIELD-HALL

MURDERS.

TRIAL OF RUSH.

(FROM OUR OWN REPORTER.)
NORWICH, TUESDAY.

Before the replrters were admitted this morning the
Governor, Mr, Pinson, called them together, an.' ex-
pressed a hope that they would keep their penknives, or
anythiug which might be made available as a weapon,
out of the reach of Rush, stating that he did not ask this

without reason. We understand that during the night the
prisoner became exceedingly violent, and vowed revenge
towards the witnesses who had given evidence against
him. It was, therefore, feared that he might lay violent
hands upon his own life if the means were placed within
his power, or attack any one within his reach. In con-
sequence of the threats used, and the apparently ungo-
vernable rage which had taken possession of the prisoner,
the spikes round the dock were covered, some time before
the meeting of the court, with long and stout pieces of
wood. The conduct of Rush during the night, we were
told, was ferocious in the extreme, and more like
that of a demon than a human being. The
prisoner (with whom turnkeys have been in the
habit of sitting up every night, and who have kept a strict
watch over him), however, slept a good deal last night;
his violence came on early in the morning.
These revelations caused the greatest excitement in
the court, which was crowded.
Mr. Baron Rolfe took his seat at a quarter to nine
o'clock. The jury assembled shortly before.
Before the prisoner was brought in the Under-Sheriff
stated that a man, then in custody and present, had called
out to the jury when leaving their omnibus and entering
the Maid's Head, last night, " Gentlemen, I hope
you will be merciful to Mr. Rush."
Archibald Macdonald, the man referred to, apolo-
gised for his conduct, and declared that it was merely
addressed to a person whom he knew in the omnibus,
and not with any bad intention.
Mr. Baron ROLFE said it was extremely important
that the jury should not be communicated with before
giving their verdict. His conduct was most improper;
as, however, he had not sought to injure the prisoner he
should discharge him.
Rush shortly after entered the dock. We did not no-
tice any change in his appearance. Having carefully
arranged his papers, a proceeding which occupied some
time, ho applied to be permitted to put a few questions to
Howe.

Mr. Baron ROLFE said he did not know whether he
ought to allow it, because the evidence was altogether
irrelevant—whether innocent or guilty he did not believe
it could affect him.

Rush said he was happy to hear this.
Mr. Baron ROLFE said, however, it was for the jury to
judge.
Rush said he only wished to put two or three questions.
llowe was called and examined by Rush—Was in the
habit of frequenting the " Wheatsheaf " in London.
Knew persons in the habit of going there of the name of
Durrant and Hythe. Had spoken to the former about
the murder. Never said he would go to Norwich and
give evidence if his expenses were paid, in order that he
might have a lark with his friends in Norwich. Did
not say ha would give evidence on either side for 20/.
He had said he had been out on the " spree" with the
prisoner, which was the case, and that ho had said he
" was a jolly good fellow."
RUSH'S DEFENCE.

Rush then proceeded to address the jury in his de-
fence. He spoke first in a thick voice, but soon re-
gained his usual composure. He implored them to
deal justly with him, and at the outset pro-
claimed his innocence, admitting freely that
from the enmity that existed between him and the
Jermys, it was but natural he should have been
suspected of this horrible crime the most
grave and important charge that they could be called
upon to try. He complained that no communication was
allowed to pass between him and his solicitor, except it
was seen by the governor of the Castle, by order of the
magistrates, which was a gross violation of the confidence
that, always existed between an accused person and his
professional adviser. His solicitor had sent a memorial
to Sir George Grey, who had declined to interfere.
He had had many difficulties thrown in his way,
and this was not the least of them. He trusted
that his Lordship would, as far as was consistent with
his position as Judge, assist him in his defence.;
Mr. Baron ROLFE bowed assent.

Rush went on to complain that witnesses had been
examined against him, without either himself or the
reporters being present, which he considered not only
cruel in the extreme, but unconstitutional. Thomas
Jermy, the claimant of the Stanfield Hall, estate, had
arranged with him that he (Rush), with all the strength
he could muster, should take possession of the hall,
as he had done some years before. He promised
to come to Potash-farm to set about this either on the
Saturday or the Monday, at eight o'clock. They spoke
together about it by the hay-stack, in his farmyard, on
the Friday morning. He (Rush) said it was a difficult
thing to do, and that they might expect a resistance.
He (Jermy) said " Nonsense," that it could easily be
accomplished, and there was no fear of soldiers. Jenny
and Larner then left him, and went to Stanfield-hall.
Ile followed them a little way, but returned
to Potash, about eleven o'clock the same morn-
ing. They communicated again with him on the
subject; but he declined to aid them, they having told
him that they could get plenty of help, and that it would
be well to accomplish there purpose in a morning, The
reason he (Rush) was at Potash at that time was in or-
der that he might prevent his son from joining in the
attempt. Some talk was made about its taking place at
night. To, this he strongly objected, saying, "at any
rate, don't make up your mind until the morning." Ile
spoke to a person named "Joe "on the matter. He
should be able clearly to satisfy his Lordship and:the jury
that he did not leave Potash-farm on the night of
the murder until sight or half-past eight. He then went
out; at first he thought he would go over to the ball, but
recollecting what he had said, he made up his mind not
to go. He walked towards the fence of the hall, about five
minutes' walk, when he heard the report of a gun or pis-
tol. He then heard another, but not quite so loud. He was
struck with amazement, as,he thought if they intended to
take fire-arms with them that they would only be
used for the purpose of intimidation. He then heard
the alarm hell rung loudly and distinctly. He
hastened back to Potash as quick as he could,
going into the house by the garden gate.
lie had seen the lawyer of the parties twice—once at
Norwich, and once at Potash.—(The statement of the
prisoner was somewhat rambling, and it was not without
difficulty that we were enabled to cull the above.) His
Lordship had said be did not think Howe's evidence im-
portant. He did not think so. His evidence was
brought forward as most important to the
ends of the prosecution. Surely the expres-
sion that "he would serve Mr. Jermy with
an ejectment for another world "—if he was an
honest man—a crt ditable witness, as he was not—but
just the reverse, as several letters ho had received
from perfect strangers showed—the proof of the use of
such an expression was most important evidence against
him. Howe would swear anything, and he should show
he was utterly unworthy of belief. Why then was
Jesse White called to prove that he wrote
the threatening notices on the copy-book covers ?
He had not any thing like the opportunities of becoming
acquainted with his handwriting that Glasgow had. Why
was he not called? He was too honest, like White, to
swear to what was false. The happiness of his
dear young children (the prisoner has a large family
living at Felmingham) depends upon the issue of this
trial. God knew ho was innocent. He had nothing on his
mind, and ho defied the prosecution,notwithstanding all the
skill of the Learned Counsel for the prosecution, to prove
on, atom of important evidence against him, notwith-
standing all the evidence they have called. Before
he had done, he would show them that he was utterly in-
nocent of this crime, and.he trusted God Almighty would
give him strength to support him to the end of that inves-
tigation. As true as he was standing there in that dock,
he should show that his suspicions were well founded.
Ile had not the least fear of the result, and he hoped
God Almighty would give them the means of seeing
the case in its true light, and that he was
innocent. lie should give satisfactory reasons why he
wont out. In short, he should show them that he knew
no more about the murders than any of them. He did
not at any time shoot much, but it so happened at the
time of the murder he did shoot a good deal. There
was one important witness, an honest fellow, whom they
dared not call. They had threatened him with the
prison ; but ho should call him. Tho evidence with re-
spect to the boots was as gross a piece of evidence as
could be produced; he should show it in a different light.
Then, with respect to the straw littered along the soft
soil, it had been there since the harvest, and was the track
the pigs took to the fields. There were some important
questions that he should have liked to have put to Mrs.
ermy ; had she not been so ill, poor thing, he should
have pressed the production of her evidence.
The prisoner here asked the Judge, as he wished to
call again two or three of the witnesses for the prosecu-
tion, whether he should do so before he proceeded?
The JUDGE—What do you mean by calling other wit-
nesses? The Prisoner—Those I want to call. There's
Savory, Branchlow, and another.

The JUDGE—You must conclude all you have to say
before you call any witnesses.

The prisoner proceeded—ln considering the bearing
of the evidence they ought to compare the evidence
given by the same witness in one place with his evi-
dence given in another; and on hearing the depositions
read he hoped they would compare them carefully. For
instance, there was Watson the butler's evidence. Let
them look to what he said before the magistrates and
afterwards. He was fairly forced to what he said, poor
fellow. He believed there never had been a man so
and was willing to give his evidence
pressed as he had been. His impression was that Wat-
son was honest,
right, but that he was forced to do otherwise, and he
could prove his evidence was completely wrong. (The
prisoner then proceeded to read the depositions of
Watson before the magistrates and before the coroner.)
They would remark that he omitted many things be-
fore the latter which he had sworn to in the other
depositions. He said, for instance, he saw a man
cumiog up the passage with a mask on his face, and
described how his arms were, &c. Before the co-
roner be omitted all these particulars, and in court he
said that as soon as he left the pantry he saw a man turn
ihecorner. The time between the first and second shots, as
stated by other witnesses, was not the same as that stated
by Watson. In tact, it was clear there were two people in
the hall from the description, and that what was called
witnesses the hall-door banging was the second
rbey2 soormt.
°With regard to Watson's evidence, that the man

he saw was: like bite, such thoughti could never come
into head wirh,,ot bin out then:. The nyto.

I.e sai:l, :An;:icil p,,,t1t1 ; W.F.; Wit,
it not quite clear that Watson could not observe what
he was like ? But he had riot given the same evidence
here that he gave butore the rn:igistra,tes. There Branch-
low's evidence Was most important for him, and if his
Lordship wished for justicz. he should have insisted upon
its being read. He now came ,to the evidence of Mar-
garet Rid, the cook. lie hoped the jury would remem-
ber that evidence, for he stood there before God and his
country, and he defied them to find anything against him
if that evidence was attended to. He asked them to com-
pare the evidence which Reid gave before the coroner
with what she had stated there. His firm belief was
that she never saw any one in the passage at all.' Before
he was done he would show that his cloak was pliced on
him at the Bridewell to see if she recognised him, but
she failed to do so.

The JunGE—l think you are justified in asking that
that should be done again.
The prisoner would certainly like it. There was
nothing sufficient in the evidence to satisfy a jury that
anybody saw a man coming along the passage at all.
Here was a great cloak reaching down to his legs, and
yet was it not extraordinary that Reid should have given
such evidence? She said the cloak might have been
held up, but she admitted that his hand was down; and
sho swore before the coroner that the cloak which the
man wore did not reach beyond his knee. He would
produce the garment which he had on that night. He
would prove the reason why he went out at nights, and
that Emily Sandford had seen him go out, and told the
prosecution what his dress was, and they have con-
cocted all this evidence and put it into the mouths of
the witnesses. He would produce the dress he wore the
night of the murders, and he was not ashamed to own
that he wore it. He had most important documents to
show, and one particularly so, which Mr. Jermy handed
him on the 21st, and which, if produced by the prosecu-
tion, would show that he was at the time in his (the
prisoner's) power. It would be no great advantage to
him, perhaps, to produce that paper, but it would show
the confidential footing on which Mr. Jermy's father
was with him; and that, being one of his best friends,
he (the prisoner) could not do anything against his
family beyond protecting himself. The jury would
bear well in mind what Reid said about his wearing his
head on one side. He never heard of such a thing be-
fore. He wanted nothing but the facts and truth of
the thing, and that would come out before he had done.
She said the man was walking quicker than he (the
prisoner) usually did; but how could she see this with
Miss Jermy between her and him ? The prosecution
had not produced that young lady. The poor boy who
was put into the box yesterday spoke the truth; and why,
therefore, should she not be brought forward? He now
came to the case of Honor Holmes, the kitchen maid,
and it would be his duty to read the facts in her evidence
which were in his favour. She went with the other par-
ties in the direction in which this man must have come
in going to or leaving the hall. It was impossible for
him to have gone in that direction without knowing
that they were there; and did the jury think he could
have had impudence enough to go through all these
people on such an object? Holmes must have seen or
heard something of the man described if she returned
when she stated. Harvey's evidence, the jury would see,
had been tampered with, he (the prisoner) knew how
very well. The evidence had been twisted and twirled
in every direction. Reid used the word " intervened"
in h& r examination, and yet she acknowleged that
she did not understand its meaning. He had no he-
sitation in saying that God Almighty would
enable him to make his evidence appear clear
to them. Another most important point was the time
that Holmes was gone. He would prove that it was not
as stated. She states that five or six days before the
inurd,-r she observed a light on the lawn, and the ap-
pearance of a man with a cloak. Now, was it likely
that a man there with an intention to commit murder
should have a light? It was well known that he had
had a dark lantern for years, and the jury, as practical
men, were quite aware that it was much better not to
show a light if a person wanted to detect anything
wrong among his servants. Where was the farmer that
had not a dark lantern? Then, he would ask, how had
Harvey given his evidence? How could any man have
got there and shot Mr. Jermy while these people were
about the door? It was impossible without being seen by
these servants. Then, there was another thing—why
should all these people have run away if they thought
there was anything serious going on? These servants were
running about the hall, and yet they had never been ex •
amined before the coroner. He would show that there
never was a man who had been treated as he had. If
the reporters had been admitted at previous inquiries the
public would have kdown what was going on. They
would find that, please God Almighty, in spite of all that
could be done against him he would be able to look his
enemies in the face. He hoped God Almighty would
make it appear how this thing was working, There was
every excuse for Mrs. Jermy's deposition, considering
the situation she was in, and the situation in which she
thought he was. The jury would recollect the evidence
which had been given as toMiss Sandford being at the hall
for 12 hours. Ho had no doubt that she was examined
over and over again that night, notwithstanding Mr.
Cann's statement. Ho thought that she was honest
enough—ho did not think she was so bad as that, poor
thing; and if he knew whom she had been examined be-
fore, he would have had them examined as witnesses, no
matter how hostile they might be. The servants denied
that they had seen the newspapers; but was that at all
likely? Then he wished to examine Mr. Clarke.

The JUDGE—He merely produced papers, but if you
wish to examine him he will be here in an hour.

Prisoner—Then as to Futter; they had heard bow he
had given his evidence as to the means of crossing the
drain. It was a very dangerous place to walk over i n
the daytime even, and at night not one man in a hun-
dred could pass. Then about laying down the straw.
This was a piece of beans, and the pigs used to go back
and forward, the straw being put there to keep them on
that side of the field when their bellies were filled. This
was the result of the fuss which had been made about
the straw. His impression was that it was at that very
time a bean stubble. As to time, Stanley's was the most
direct evidence of any. His evidence, and Watson's
taken with it, showed that the murder took place later
than stated, and that it must have been very near nine
o'clock. Coming to the evidence of Pont, Mortar, Amos,
and Osborne, he would show the purpose of the bare.
faced, impudent evidence they had given. He called
their attention to this to show the way in which the evi-
dence had been got up, for that must come out. There
was no doubt that the fellow Pout had studied his first
depositions in the papers, for he repeated the very words
ho used before the coroner; but let them compare what
he said with the evidence of others, and then they
would see the difference. They would find that these
men concocted the point about time. At the time he
could observe their drift, and that was the reason he
put certain questions. They had got up the story of
his saying that young Jermy was his enemy; but was
it likely that he would make such a statement if he was
guilty; and the jury would recollect that though it was
stated he said so in the presence of Miss Sandford, she
had no recollection of it. Then about the papers, that
fellow Pont told the other men what they ought to say
as he went out of court, and they bad done so. It
showed the injustice to which he had been
subjected. About the evidence Osborne gave as
to seeing the parties go up stairs at Potash, he wanted
to explain away that statement. Thompson, however,
said that no one went up stairs with him (the prisoner)
but Amos and Mortar, and it was clear from the post-
lion in which Osborne stood that he could not have
seen them. The evidence of these parties he hoped they
would well consider in all its bearings. Tho words to
which they spoke differed; and the jury heard what
Punt swore yesterday as to seeing Mortar taking him by
the arm. When a man would swear false in one way,
then he would do so in another also. Then as to the
boots. The first description of them which Pont gave
was that they were getting dry and had been washed;
while before the coroner he said they were wet. The
contradictions on this subject were many, and the p.rao-.
secution had not called the most important w4nneossth
could speak to the fact. Emily Sandforciliedb.adHe
would
recol-
lection of the boots having
nhgir
boots
tofootrs
been Lass night.
o v'h'eashagdoi
produce the very boots he had
f
game, which he must
F 1 • h
at e ming am, and he would
there. His home was
not want his servants to
here
ew
make that point clear to the jury before he was done.
As, to a pair found below the bed, one of the fellows
swore that there was fresh dirt upon them, which
showed what such witnesses were prepared to say
against hitn. He declared solemnly that he never had
them on that day. Again, each of the police swore that
he took the guns and uncapped them himself, and men
doneth oa
nt
hi
who would not stop at small falsehoods would not stop
at large either. Thompson swore that the closet docr
was broken open, when he must have known that it
was not. As he said before, he would call Sa-
vory to show the way in which he had been preserv-
ing the game, and the pains ho had taken. He
examined Emily Sandford about this, and the jury heard
what she said. He had also to bring forward Mr. Stokes
to show the feeling between him and the deceased Mr.
Jermy. There was no ill feeling between them that was
not expressed by him (the prisoner) in an open and
manly way. Ile had said much more to Mr. Jermy
himself than to any one else on the subject. He sent a
copy of his pamphlet to him when it was first published,
and he had no doubt it still existed to prove the fact.
He had particularly wished to know who the witnesses
were that were to be brought against him, and there was
plenty of time to do so; but that information had been
withheld. The banks along: the fields between Potash
and the hall were very much broken, and, with ditches
to cross and other impediments, it would be most dan-
gerous, and ho thought almost impossible, to pass along
them in a dark night; but particularly it would
be impossible to do so in a quarter of an hour, the time
taken by the police-constable to walk it during the day.
They had heard what Mr. Cann said about the witness
Emily Sandford. Had she spoken the truth at first there
would not have been enough evidence to commit him;
but finding that she was unduly tampered with, she was
induced to say what has led her to the statements which
she now made. Notwithstanding what had been said
that Emily Sandford was left alone at the hall, he was
sure the jury would not believe that all the time she
was there she was not often under examination.
Honor Holmes stated that she was examined at three
o'clock. If she had said now what she said on her second
examination there would have been no evidence against
him. This Cann had been keeping off and on with
him; but if he was going to die just now he would say
that there was nothing wrong in the evidence which
Emily Sandford gave on her second examination. If he
had the truth of what took place in the brown parlour,
he could clear up the whole mystery in five minutes.
He believed Watson to be an honest fellow, and that he
gave his evidence in the brown parlour correctly enough;
and that it was subsequently the story of the mask an 4
all that was got up. The Jury saw how Mrs. Bryant
has been a go-between between Mr. Cann and Emily
Sandford, They would find that Mr. Cann pressed the

latter on the point that she was upon her oath %then
exas-eiessi before the iessistest-,,,, 1)7,1 the jiirs th 17,1;
thst a s iltable you: g. 1 soo litii that, ;lid liot
know that she was upon her oath, asd that
she, spoke the truth .Iceordin4.ly ? He was cx-
clikdrel from her examination, but he would Ina have
cared for that if the reporters had been admitted, as
they would have seen justice done. She was placed
before Cann, Hubbersty, and Co., end they would
remember what Hubbersty said last night. lie hoped
the reporters had given that evidence correctly in the
papers, as it was most important. Hubbersty stated that
ha was not aware her evidence was read over to Emily
Sandford, or if she signed it, but the jury would not be-
lieve that evidence ho was sure. He must have known
it. Was it likely that when Emily Sandford was giving
that most important evidence in the Castle to Mr.Cann's
father, Mr. Cann himself was away? Mr. Cann said
that he took his (the prisoner's) watch as a security for
a previous debt, but he could prove that it was not so.
They might say that that was not very material; but he
would show that it was; that he had been prevented in
consequence from getting up his defence as he ought,
and that the evidence which had been got up against
him in so extraordinary a manner ought to be rejected
by the jury. When Emily Sandford was giving her
evidence, some one said to her, " What you are now
stating is not correct." Was it wonderful that he
should become excited after hearing that? Had the
reporters been in the room then, and his pocket-
book been given him, the whole case would have been
blown in the air, and ho would not have been there
now. Ho would show before it was done that it was im-
possible to look at the agreements that had been spoken
of without coming to the conclusion that the whole evi-
dence had been got up from beginning to end. Mrs.
Bryant talked Ito Emily Sandford at her examination
constantly, and apologised to the magistrates for doing
so; but why was that apology necessary if she was doing
as she said, nothing but asking her if she wanted water?
Again, Mr. Cann stated that he found but one letter be-
tween himself and him. He was employed by the pri-
soner's father's executors, and for his mother, in an
action for ejectment brought against her, and then to
turn about in the way that he has done! He (the pri-
soner) denied that he owed Mr. Cann a single half-
penny, except in respect of this last ejectment against
his mother. It was well known that ho was at Stanfield
Hall on the 21st, and yet none of the servants saw him
there, not even Watson. He used sometimes to see Mr.
Jermy himself at the window, and would then go
right into him. He used to go there between eight and
nine o'clock in the evening in this way, and did not be-
lieve he had seen these servants who talked so
much about his appearance, more than three or four times
in his life. To the best of his knowledge he was never
objected to at Stanfield hall except once, and that was
when they were at issue about the Felmingham farm.
With rogard to the agreements there was no foundation
for the statements Emily Sandford had made about them.
The concealed aperture in the closet at Potash he dis-
covered accidently, and as it struck him as a convenient
place for shoving papers into he used it for that purpose.
The evidence of flubbertsy and Mr. Cann as to the dis-
covery of his papers there, was inconsistent. The former
gave his evidence on that point very fairly; but Mr.
Caun turned up the white of his eyes when he was an-
swering his questions. As to the evidence of Emily
Sandford she has made from time to time so many state-
ments that one would have fancied it was complete before
she was placed in the witness box; but on comparing
what she has said formerly with her statements made in
court, it was quite clear that she had said much more
than she knew anything about. The prisoner was pro-
ceeding to another point, when
The JUDGE said, as you have concluded your obser-
vations about Mr. Cann's evidence, perhaps now, if you
peel fatigued, this will be a proper time for your taking
some refreshment.

The prisoner sail, he was not fatigued, but would let
his Lordship know when he was. With reference to the
wig, it was well known that some time ago he was losing
his hair, and i❑ consequence he ordered a wig from
Norwich, which upon trial did not fit him. He in con-
sequence returned it to the barber, who sent it back to
him again, and brought an action in the County Court
for the price. It might be remembered that he put the
wig on in court to decide the luestion. That was a
well-known fact, and he declared to God there was no
secret about it.

The jury here intimated a wish to retire for refresh-
ment, and the Court adjourned for a quarter of an hour.
On the resumption of the proceedings—
The prisoner said, that Elizi's Chestney's evidence be-
fore the Court the jury would compare with that given
before the coroner and magistrates. She declared that
the man who fired at her had neither hat nor cap on, but
how could she, poor thing, have time to observe more
than his general appearance, for there was the report of
the gun, and the smoke, and all that sort of thing to pre-
vent her? If such evidence as she had given as to the
shape of his head and his hair was to be sufficient, ho
thought there was no evidence which might not be re-
ceived. It was quite monstrous that such things should
be taken against him—a man with a large family; and he
told them to reject such evidence in spite of anything his
Lordship or counsel might tell them. What could be
more conspicuous than going out with a wig on one's
head, and supposing ho had used it that it would be suf-
fered to remain where it had been found afterwards? In
tins, as in everything else, God Almighty had been his
guide, and he saw that in spite of all they had done, they
could not bring home such a charge against
him. Allow he had been a persecuted man,
he had no ill- feeling towards Mr. Jermy;
indeed ho had far more ill-feeling against his solicitors
than him. All attempts that bad been made to prove
that had failed. The putting on of this wig be-
fore Eliza Chestney, poor thing, could only have been
intended to work upon her feelings, and it showed how
tar the prosecution had gone in getting up the case
against him. He now came to the evidence of Emily
Sandford, and he said now, as he said before, that it was
the only evidence against him. He must go on with
her evidence, and show why the jury ought to reject it
from the evidence which she had given before. He
would prove that her evidence from beginning to end
was totally unworthy of credit, and he would do so from
her own words. He would show that she had been in-
fluenced by what she had hoard at the Hall. A great
deal had been said about his going out late at night.
As it was well known, people were in the habit of
poaching over the farm—which was well stocked
with game, particularly at that season of the year—
he used to go out to watch the poachers; and there-
fore all the statements she made on this sub-
ject were quite true. He must admit the connexion
that had existed between him and Emily Sandford, but
there was an understanding as to their future mode of
living; for he telt it would be advisable for her family
and for his children that she should cease to hold that
position in his house, and should become his house-
keeper. She could not help being aware of this arrange-
ment; but from the manner in which she had given her
evidence the jury would see she was anything but
friendly towards him, whatever she had been before.
They had all heard her speak of the tears that had
fallen from him—ho had good reason 0 ask her about
them. The fact was, she wanted to go to a concert at
Norwich, and he had given her a promise to take her.
He bought a ticket for five. His two eldest daughters,
his son, and his son's wife, went with it. On considera-
tion he thought he could not let her go. When he re-
fused her she bore it so good and kindly that he could
not held being affected, knowing how he had treated her.
and seeing her so patient. (The prisoner's voice faltered
very much here, and became almost choked with emo-
tion.) She agreed directly when he told her she could not
go except by herself, for, recollecting the situation she
was to hold in his house, he could not accompany her to
the concert. He would have convinced her that the
statement she made as to what took place was incorrect,
but when she said there was not more than an hour and
a half between the time he went out and came in, he
thought it immaterial to press her. He thought the
Learned Gentlemen would try hard to bring in all about
aie watches in evidence; but he had evidence about the
time which would show clearly how the matter stood, and
how long he was out that night. She said he went out
about eight o'clock. Now, let them recollect what liar-
vey, Holmes, and the others said was the time when they
were at the Hall, as well as the nature of the ground
between Potash and it—that there were three ditches,
two of them very deep—and they would see it was im-
possible fur any one to go from Potash to Stanfield and
back in double the time which appeared to have elapsed,
comparing her statement of the time he went out and
their account of the occurrence which took place.
Hervey deposed it was half past seven o'clock when he
left Wymondhana. He went to the Hall and stood
there chatting for some time with the servants
et the moat gate. Then be said ho saw some-
thing near the porch like a figure of a man, and that
after the revort he saw something fly up like wadding
with a bright flame about 12 yards high. That was a
most extraordinary thing. It might show the man,
whoever be was, did not intend the harm he had done.
As to the statement, he had no doubt it was a mistake
in some respects, but it showed at all events that the
witness was at the hall at the time. It would not be
possible if he saw the man at the loft side of the porch
for the latter to have_ gone round to the passage in the
time which the witnesses state to have elapsed between
the first and second reports; in fact, as he suspected, the
other man must have been in the passage at the time of
the first shot. Chestney and Reid were sitting by the fire
talking, and very likely that he went some way along the
passage before their attention was drawn to him by a
rustling as he went along. But why had not
all the people who were at the gate that night
been examined ? No one but Harvey talked
of seeing a light in the hall before he heard the re-
port ; in fact, it could not be. It was not likely Mr.
Jermy was shot the moment he opened the door, and
as it remained open for the time they should have seen
the light there. Suppose there had been only one man,
and that man himself, did they believe it possible he
would have taken the course attributed to him? Why,
lie knew every chink and cranny in the hall. Did they
think, then, he would have gone round, after firing the
gun, to the passage? How could he tell that the ser-
vants were not all there close by? Wait to go round to
meet them all! The fact was, if it had been he, ho would
have gone in at the porch door. It was a most awful
and extraordinary thing for one man to think that an-
other would run in among a lot of people to do such a.
deed as this; and he said, beside that, there was irt suf
ticient time, even on the longest calculation given in
evidence, for a man to have run round to the passage
from the porch. Emily Sandford stated, that the even-
ing they drove over to Stanfield she was
fact had never
as very anxious to
The
go with him. Well, so sho was.
struck
before,h and he never before knew of the rig-
maroletitcm count of their proceedings. There was some
mystery about all this that ho could not clear up. Great
stresshad been laid on the papers and agreements relat-
,lgt the farm. If he could have Mrs. Jermy on the
table he could get a good deal out for them as to what
she knew of the Rev. Mr. Preston's will. He would take
his oath he never had heard of the papers before with
the use which they had heard. They had all heard

of how she cried and sobbed when he asked her
to copy the e papers. So she had, poor thine; be
nui. for the re..see had goieti. No! The Lei au.
that :the feared he was going to marry again, and tie.•
letter in Question related to the subject of her fears. She
had told them that he expressed great anxiety that it
should not fall into the hands of his children. Lord of
Heaven and earth! to be sure he had! Would it not be
worse that a letter of such a kind should fall into the
hands of young children than into those of a stranger
almost? Though never mar, loved wife mere truly and
faithfully than he had loved Emily Sandford, she always
thought he was going to get married and to leave her.
Well, but if her story were true, where were all her
fine feelings and her sensibility at Potash farm? They
had had no crying or sobbing there, and yet if her story
was true he hud asked her to copy and sign papers which
she must have known to be false—all her three deposi-
tions agreed on that point. Had she not the same feel-
ings then as before? And she must hare known the name
of Isaac Jermy to those papers was a forgery, and yet
she neither sobbed nor cried, nor expressed the least dis-
inclination to sign them. It was not very likely indeed
that he would ask her to do so if she had exhibited all
those fine feelings before. Whichever way they looked
at this story they would find that it was totally false.
" Murder would out," and he had no hesitation in saying
that the real facts of the case at Stanfield-hall would
soon come to light. He hoped God Almighty would
convince Mrs. Jermy of the truth, and that she would
be at last brought to feel that whet he stated about the
interview with Mr. Jermy was correct. If he was going
out on any bad intent, or on such a horrid deed that
night, he would have taken care to have been seen by
sore of his men, who could prove where he was out, and
that he said he was going out after poachers. The
basest lie that ever was said on God's earth was that he
ever drank anything out of a bottle. It was what he
called a fifth or sixth edition, and her statement as to
this fact varied in her evidence, but in every shape it
was untrue. She would make the jury believe that he
was drunk. Most people who knew him could say that he
suffered wonderfully from bilious headache at short
intervals, and the reason why he told Emily Sand-
ford to leave the room on the night in question
very probably was that he was ill at the
time, and he had heard that a man who was in difficul-
ties was taking away the game by wholesale, and that
was one reason why he went out earlier than usual on
Friday night. As to the pair of stockings that were
"muddy," they all knew it was quite ridiculous to talk
of such of such a thing. They were introduced merely
to give the Learned Gentlemen an opportunity of getting
up their case. Then they make all this fuss about his
going to Felmingham, and about the closet being
burned. Why, it really was the case that the closet
where the papers were kept was set on fire accidentally
by the servant. But what had that to do with the
case? Yes, they wanted to make it appear that papers
had been burnt. If she believed him guilty of the
charge, whom had Emily Sandford to look to? Her
friends had not a farthing. They must consider, then,
what a great temptation she was under, and how many
motives she might have for all her story. She had said
he was not well that night. Ho was, indeed, wonder.
fully hurt because he had refused her going to the con-
cert, and she took it so gently, and that made him
seem unwell. He would be on his oath, if he was
dying, that it was an hour after tea before he went
out. At first Emily Sandford spoke the truth, but
she deviated from it afterwards; and if she had adhered
to what she told the magistrates (which was the fact),
they would see it was impossible for him to have done
so foul a deed in the time. What was the meaning of
all the talk they had heard about fires at Potash and
fires at Felmingham? She distinctly contradicted her
first statement when she said the fire at l'otash was
bright and good that night. Next, let them look to what
she said took place when he came home. Emily Sand-
ford could have seen him if she pleased when she
opened the door, but she did not do so. As to the
things which were found in the House, be never locked
them up or made any secret of them. All her depositions
agreed that she went to bed at nine o'clock, or half-past,
and the time was impressed on her because she must
have looked at the watch when she wound it up. The fact
wag, he told her to wind it up, and she had done so; but she
denied it, es well as all the questions he had asked her about
unfastening her dress, because in her examination before
the magistrates she said she had only been in the
room for a minute; when she asked what was amiss, he
said something had happened, and that he would tell
her as soon as she got into her own room. He had
done so. (The prisoner became confused for a moment).
No, he would not say that; but he would take his oath
he told her something had happened at Stanfield-hall,
but she said she did not want to hear it; and it was all
owing to his not insisting on telling her that so much
trouble had followed. No one could possibly think that
he had committed so foul a deed on such evidence as
had been adduced, and he never for a moment imagined
that she could have thought him guilty of it, or he would
have insisted on telling her. lie was sure that every-
thing of importance to him had been rubbed out and do.
stroyed in his pocket-book. Where, too, he asked, was
the pocket-book of 1847? His firm impression was, that
there were more people seen, and that the servants would
not explain the reason why the fact was concealed. This
was another proof that the evidence had been manu-
factured. Watson, who had most time to observe the
man, might have imagined that he looked as described,
and all the rest have taken their story from him. With
reference to the evidence produced to establish his hand-
writing on the copy-book by Jesse White, it was a ter-
rible thing for a man to screw up his courage to swear
as that man had done. White, had; said that he
would give up the figures, but he might as well give up
the letters to, poor fellow. He contended, as to Gar-
rold's evidence, that the fact of his hand shaking so that
he eould not cut a small slip of paper, proved clearly,
that he had sworn what ho was not sure of. But this
was the way in which the whole case had been got up.
For example, that fellow Cann brought for examina-
tion against him a man like Howe, one of the worst
characters in London.

The prisoner was still proceeding with his defence at
half-past seven o'clock.
The JUDGE said, that as the jury appeared quito
fatigued by their long sitting, he wished to know how
long the prisoner's defence was likely to last ?
The prisoner said, some hours longer.
In consequence the Court, at eight o'clock, adjourned
—the prisoner having been about ten hours and a half
o❑ his legs.

Eliza Chestney has had a relapse, owing to the impru-
dent announcement of the death of a brother. The worst
consequences were for some time apprehended, but hap-
pily she is now again convalescent.
Rush summoned a witness from London last evening,
by electric teletraph. The gentleman arrived here by
the first train this morning.