The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-02 00:00:00

to declare before your LordshipB and the country, strength-
ened by experience of every succeeding day, my conviction that
this country will never prosper—that you will never be able
to thwart and defeat the dangerous designs of mischievous I
men, bent upon still farther measures of perillous
change, and having, as they imagine, at length
grasped the lever by which they hope to upheave and up-
root the old and venerable fsundations of this country—my
Lords, I say every day's experience convinces me more and
more that if you hope to see the return of prosprrity to the
manufacturing and commercial interests, as well as of the
landed and agricultural interests, including in these latter
interests not the country gentlemen alone, but the farmers,
and also the labourers of England—(Hear, hear)—
you must retrace the steps you have taken —you
must return to make a large portion of your revenue
depend upon the product of moderate import duties—you I
must return to the principle of protection, and not only is
my conviction firm that this is that to which, if you are wise,
you will return, but my belief moreover is strong, that at no
very distant period to that principle and to that system the
feeling and deliberate opinion of the country will compel
you to return.—( Hear, hear.) My Lords, with the view I
take, it is hardly necessary for me to waste your Lordships'
time by referring to the present prices of agricultural pro-
duce, or to waste your time by showing that the farming
interests of this country are in a state of considerable depres-
sion. I have, indeed, heard that, as has been said lately, on
the authority of a very distinguished individual, after
all, the wheat crop is a very small proportion of farmers'
produce. —(A laugh.) I can easily conceive that at
the present moment thanks to your Lordships' le-
gislation and that of the other House of Parliament,
—the farmers' wheat crop does constitute a very small item
of his annual produce. At the present moment the price of
corn is 455. per quarter—the precise amount to which I ven-
tured, in the debate on the corn-laws, to express my opinion
free trade would bring down the regular price of corn in this
country; and that at the price of 455. you would have intro-
duced, one year with the other, something like four million
quarters. Now it singularly enough happens that the price
of wheat at this moment, I believe, is 455. and a fraction
per quarter, and that in the course of last year—a
year, be it observed, of very moderate prices—there
were imported about 5,000,000 quarters of all descrip-
tions of corn. I say it is impossible, if these prices
are to be permanent, that the agricultural operations of this
country can be carried on with profit to the farmer; and I
say that if they cannot so be carried on with a profit, the loss
will in a very short time fall, not upon him, but upon the
labourers employed, and all connected with the agricultural
interest. But, my Lords, there is a most significant fact
staring us in the face at the present moment, and I appeal
as to this, not to figures, but to your Lordships' expe-
rience, and I speak to men connected with almost all parts
of the country upon the point, and I ask if experience
throughout the kingdom, and more especially in the
southern counties, does not show, that in spite of the
low prices ithat were to bring about universal plenty,
happiness, and contentment, there is a larger amount of
vagrancy, a greater amount of mendicancy, and a greater
number of able-bodied agricultural labourers thrown
upon the poor-rates than there ever was before?- I ask
your Lordships whether these increasing evils are not
pressing exclusively upon the land, and becoming more into-
lerably burdensome than they have ever been at any other
period? Now, if this be really the truth—if this fearful
state of things is actually going on—then it is not honest to
sink the fact. I believe, my Lords, that you have given,
in her Majesty's Speech, an erroneous and exaggerated
colouring, even of the ' state of those interests that
are mentioned in it ; and that there is an entire omission
in that Speech—not, perhaps, wilfully—on the part of
her Majesty's advisers, but still most censurably, of all
mention of important interests now in distress, and ap-
proaching their ruin. I will not now enter into details re-
garding our West Indian colonies. I have to thank your
Lordships for having so patiently listened to me while endea-
vouring to correct what I deem to be serious mis-statements
in her Majesty's Speech; and I must also apologise most
unfeignedly to you for my having been drawn, in the course
of my hasty remarks, to an unexpected length. I have to
move, as an amendment upon the Address before your Lord-
ships, that at the conclusion of the paragraph which de-
clares the state of the revenue to be one of progressive im-
provement, and after thanking her Majesty for that com-
munication, that the following words be inserted, via.—
" We regret, however, to be compelled humbly to represent
to your Majesty, that neither your Majesty's relations with
foreign Powers, nor the state of the revenue, nor the con-
dition of the commercial and manufacturing interests of the
country are such as, in our opinion, justify us in addressing
your Majesty in language of congratulation, and that large
portions of the agricultural and colonial interests of the
empire are labouring under a state of progressive de-
pression, calculated to excite serious apprehensions and
anxieties."

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE next rose to address the
House, but his speech was very inaudible in the gallery. We
understood, him to say that he must begin by stating that had
it not been for the speech of the Noble Lord who had just sat
down, he would have been perfectly content to rest the
grounds of, his vote in favour of the Address that had been
moved that night upon the speeches of the two Noble Lords
behind him. But after what had fallen from the Noble
Lord who had last addressed the House, he (the Marquis of
Lansdowne) felt it necessary to make a few observations. The
Noble Lord who had just sat down, was pleased to conjecture
that this silence had been occasioned by the supposition
on his (Lord Lansdowne's) part, that the speech of
the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) was favour-
able to the Address, and to the policy which it recommended.
Such was the simplicity with which the Noble Lord had
been pleased to charge him. Blithe did certainly think the
Noble Lord had shown as much simplicity when he con-
sidered, as he (Lord Lansdowne) well }mew at the time and
expected he would consider, the speech of the Noble Lord,
which went so much further in approbation, and therefore
so much less in disapprobation of the Address, to be in
favour of the sentiments he himself had just expressed.
—(Hear, hear.) Yet although he congratulated himself
upon having secured the assistance and approbation
of the Noble and Learned Lord in favour of what he
was pleased to call the landed interest, that
Noble and Learned Lord had taken the opportunity
already of reminding him that he must not congratulate
himself on having secured his assistance in going back-
wards—(Hear, hear)—to protection, which he had just an-
nounced to their Lordships as his policy. In that respect,
at least, he could not assure him of having found much en-
couragement from the Learned Lord, or assistance. With
regard to the silence alluded to by the Noble Lord, and his
own reasons for abstaining for the while from offering him-
self to the attention of their Lordships, he would say that the
Noble Lord had availed himself as undoubtedly he was
well competent to do, of that opportunity, and the terms of
the Address, in order to state an opinion, and to found that
opinion on assumed facts, at a moment when, in the
very terms of the Speech, it had been announced that
the whole of the papers would be very shortly laid
upon the table. He would be permitted to say that the
Noble Lord could not, for his purpose, have ever adopted a
more judicious time.—(Hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord had
waited for these papers, no one of the assertions which he
had made in his speech, and which he had made the foun-
dation of that opinion which he invited their Lordships to
adopt, not one of these assertions which would not have
been falsited. In proceeding to reply to the speech of the
Noble Lord, he would take it up in the order which the
Noble Lord himself had pursued. But he begged leave, in
the first instance, to say that he disclaimed with the Noble
Lord altogether the opinion that hostilities had been coun-
tenanced by the British Government, or with their consent
suspended between Austria and Hungary. He assured them
that they had never interfered with these hostilities, never
meant to interfere with them, and never were desired to
interfere. At the same time they could not but contem-
plate with deep interest a struggle carried on under circum-
stances of great difficulty, in which individuals had displayed
before the world sentiments and conduct of so lofty a cha-
racter. He assured the Noble Lord that they had taken no
part whatever in the negotiation between the Emperor of
Austria and his subjects—a negotiation in which he deemed
they had no right to take part. There were other nego-
tiations, however, connected with that power into which
they had entered, and which, he hoped, would end in con-
solidating the interests of that power, and the general
peace of Europe. His Noble Friend at the head of the Foreign
Department had, nevertheless, been represented as insisting
upon being permitted to interfere, and as thrusting his
mediation upon other nations. There was one instance, in-
deed, in which they had, offered their mediation ; they
had communicated to Austria the terms on which they
proposed to mediate, terms which were favourable to the
Austrian interests. 'At the moment Austria did not think fit
to accede to these terms; but a time elapsed, new circum-
stances o.xurred, and the relations of parties were somewhat
altered, when at length their mediation was accepted, and a
Congress would be called upon such terms as pe‘feetly justi-
fied the
,course determined on by the Noble Lord the Secre-
tary foror oreign Affairs. He did notcertainly think that his
Noble Friend opposite (Lord Stanley) would go so far as to
say that, having undertaken a mediation, at the request and
in consequence of the application of another power, they
should offer only such advice as she herself might wish.—
( Hear, bear.) Such, at least, were not the terms on which
they had, or ever would consent to interfere in any coun-
ty; and when the Noble Lord chose so to misrepresent the
policy of his Noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Depart-
ment, he might remind that Noble Lord of the time when
be was in conjunction with his Noble Friend (Lord Pal-
merston), and when his Noble Friend entered upon some
of the most important negotiations with the greatest powers
in Europe, and carried them to a successful termination, with
the complete approbation of the Noble Lord then, though he
had now withheld it, and with the very best effects upon the
peace of the world. If, however, it were conceded to the
Noble Lord that the policy of his Noble Friend (Lord Pal-
merston) had been of a disturbing and unpeaceful character,
why, the Noble Lord, by his own expressed opinion, had still
the consolation that his Noble Friend, during the past year,
had been most unsuccessful in his endeavours.— (Hear, and
laughter.) These endeavours had been made at a crisis the
most exciting, and under circumstances the most trying which
for many years had occurred in Europe—at a time when those
evil passions alluded to by the Noble Lord had been let loose,
and hostilities existed between country and country, and
even forgotten nationalities had been revived in a spirit of
bitterness; but thanks to the policy on which his Noble
Friend had proceeded—(Cheers)—and thanks to that con-
junction and co-operation of France with England—(Cheers)
—noticed in the Speech from the Throne, these evil passions,
these &tistilities between country and country—these nation-
alities had been for.the time successfully prevented from end-
ing in a general war. It was mainly owing to the policy of
his Noble Friend that there had not been a general outbreak.
—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) He now came to notice the
comments of the Noble Lord on their mediation in the affairs
of Sicily. In the first place, the Noble Lord would have
their Lordships to believe that, as regarded any of the par-
ties concerned, the interference of the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs had been uninvited.

Lord STANLEY explained that his remarks applied to the
interference of the squadron:
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE would come to that after-
wards. His Noble Friend had never wished to interfere in
these affairs, and he did not interfere until after the impor-
tunate solicitation of the King of Naples himself.—(Hear,
hear.) They had been solicited for their advice in the affairs
of Naples, and when once in Naples, they were urged and
solicited to passe over into Sicily. If they had not gone to
Sicily, or if they had not gone to Naples, what would now have
been the language of the Noble Lord opposite in animadverting
upon the conduct of the Government? " Is that the way,"
he would have said, " in which you use the King of Naples,
an ancient power in friendly relations with the British Go-
vernment? You have neglected your obligations in so treat-
ing a friendly power who has solicited, under important cir-
cumstances, your advice and mediation." They did go to
Naples, but when there, they were solicited to send also into
Sicily. " Would the Secretary of the Legation at all events
pcwerw withhicwhhhicand they
solicitedh had
in
not go? Or would they not send, if it were only an attach 6?
Vl'ould nobody go?" Somebody did go, therefore. As re-
been in a state of allian ,
spected Naples, then, itc was
eand a a
power
their • terference. Indeed, looking at Sicily, not as indepen.
country which they wished to be tilde-
dent of Naples, not as a
ndent of Naples, but as a country having certain rights, and
in possession of these rights,
the ground of British interfe-
rence rights were recognized as
they had been invited at
in Sicily. He did not say that.
as being practically independent,
did occur which made i
hts; b tit circumstanees afterwards _
we U 201401
obligator), on the Britian Government to
the time to effect for Sicily recovery of the possession of these

assistance of their moral influence for the recovery of these
rights to the nation. In their interference they had ex-
pressly limited themselves by the same principle which had
ruled the negotiations of former Governments with the same
kingdom. He might quote, from more than one document,
a precedent in support of the course adopted by the Govern-
ment in this case, but he would confine himself to the in-
structions given by Lord Castlereagh, to Sir William A'Court
in circumstances precisely similar. The Noble Marquis then
read a passage from these instructions, which made the
consent of the Sicilian Parliament a condition of Sir Wil-
liam proceeding with the negotiation. What did the Noble
Lord think of that? But it was very convenient for
the Noble Lord to despise any mention of moral obliga-
tion, as though the Government had had nothing to do
with mediating between the parties. The Government had
warned them that they would not go to war, and could they
do more? But, at the same time, they had not disclaimed a
warm interest and a strong feeling on their behalf. The
British and French squadrons then, without any preparations
for war, and without any instructions either to make war or
to be prepared for it, lay in the waters over against Mes-
sina, and observed the motions of both parties in that city.
They were surprised to see, without notice or warning, a se-
ries of hostilities commenced, and a terrible bombardment
began, and continued throughout the whole of the day. A
struggle, which both the admirals of the combined fleets had
been called on three different times to assist in terminating,
and towards a successful:determination of which their efforts had
been as often all but successful, hoping that, with a little delay,
another might succeed where they had failed ; this struggle was
thus suddenly and unexpectedly recommenced, and pro-
secuted with barbarities which, as described by the Noble
Lord himself, exceeded those that had been perpetrated in
the streets of Frankfort, as much as these exceeded the
character of civilized war. Those who, by their course of
life, might be expected to have their feelings somewhat har-
dened to the scenes presented by warfare, saw with horror
not only the houses demolished or burned down, but hos-
pitals even—(Hear, hear)—thrown down and their unhappy
inmates, the diseased, the sick, and the infirm, dragged out
and butchered ; they saw, and saw with horror, women
dragged from their houses, and dragged from the churches
to which they had fled for shelter, and violated and killed.
Could those men in the English and French fleets allow
such barbarities to proceed, notwithstanding that they
had been thrice invited to negotiate a friendly issue, and
had thrice almost succeeded in conciliating the contending
parties? Could they, although accustomed to the scenes of
war, remain indifferent while the same parties who had in-
vited their interference were perpetrating barbarities that
outraged humanity ? The Noble Lord, however, must not
think, as he seems to do, that the interference of England
was all on one side. The patriots or the insurgents, which-
soever it might please the Noble Lord to call them, had been
successful against Palermo; and had taken the city; but the
garrison which still remained within the city was in danger
of being butchered, except for the presence of English men-
of-war. The Noble Lord's arguments, however, might be
stretched so far as to countenance the butchering of that
garrison; yet he (the Maiquis of Lansdowne) would
not do him the injustice to suppose that he would
practically acknowledge the natural consequences of
his own reasoning. The interference, then, was ne-
cessitated by the circumstances which he had narrated,
and was sanctioned by the authority of the Admiral, Sir
William Parker, whose conduct while employed in many of
the most difficult and delicate negotiations had been of the
most meritorious character, (Hear, hear.) Her Majesty's
Ministers, he might say, were at that moment in negotiation,
for a happy termination of these painful contests, and al-
though he might not venture to express a definite opinion,
he would express his sanguine hope that their negotiations
would be brought to a prompt and acceptable issue.
In regard to what the Noble Lord opposite had said upon
the subject of the Duchies of Schleswig and Holstein, he
could only assure the Noble Lord that the negotiation was
proceeding, if not speedily, yet satisfactorily, and that the
difficulties had in a certain degree disappeared. With re-
gard to Spain, we understood the Noble Marquis to say that
he expected the Spanish Government would fully
recognize the injustice of the charges they had brought
against our Minister. The Noble Marquis then passed to that
part of the speech of Lord Stanley, in which he had com-
mented upon the Government policy in Ireland, and had
made remarks not borne out by the facts. He was not there
to contend that the poor-law in that country required no
modification or change, and he trusted that at an early period
of the session that subject would be fully taken into con-
sideration. As regarded the renewal of the increased powers,
which had been granted last year, those powers had been
exercised mildly; and he intended to lay before the House a
dispatch received from the Lord-Lieutenant, containing the
grounds upon which he had made that recommendation to
the Government—and in which they had acquiesced—of
asking for the renewal of those powers, and that dispatch, he
trusted, would satisfy the minds of their Lordships as to the
propriety of the course which had been taken in this respect.
The Noble Marquis next drew the attention of their Lord-
ship's to the really improving state of commerce, and of the
manufacturing districts. There had lately been a much
greater demand for manufactured goods. The state of the
revenue was also, happily, one of progression—( Hear);—
and he trusted he should be able to satisfy the Noble Lord
opposite that there was proof of improvement in the revenue
altogether independent of the corn duty. Putting aside the
corn duty altogether, there had been an improvement of
200,000 e. in the Customs in the course of last year.—(Hear,
hear.) He then alluded to the returns from the savings
banks, which he described as encouraging, and concluded by
saying he felt justified in the opinion that there was a return
to prosperity in every branch—a prosperity which be
earnestly hoped might be permanent.—(Cheers.)
The Dulls of RICHMOND could not undepatand why the
Noble Marquis should have added insult to injury in his in-
flictions upon the agricultural interest. While a protection,
ranging from five to fifteen per cent., had been continued,
and rightly, on the manufactures of' this country, the agricul-
tural interests of the country had at the moment he was
speaking, no protection at all.—(Hear, hear.) The farmers
could not afford to pay a large number of labourers, and they
were forced to keep on as many as they could of those men
who had large families, and to discharge the others. He had
always thought the new poor-law a good law, and had sup-
ported it; but he declared before heaven that he had never
dreamed it possible that by an Act passed by men voting
against their consciences -as he deeply regretted to say
many of their Lordshipsidid—honest industrious men seeking
only to support themselves and their families, by doing a
good day's work for a good day's pay, would be driven into
the workhouses. The Noble Duke then expressed his dis-
approbation of the proceedings of the financial and other
agitators in Liverpool and Ma ichester, who, he believed,
were doing great injury to the country. Was it possible the
Government could consent to the reduction of the army and
navy of this empire, at the bidding of such a despicable
body of men? He hoped his Noble Friend, when he pro-
posed his reductions, would stateexplicitly the reasons which
had induced him to think that this country was now in such
a condition, that her power might be reduced. Were the
Government going to take men away from Ireland? If so,
what did they want with a Coercion Act? The best co-
ercion act for the Irish insurgents was the know-
ledge that a British regiment was at hand and
ready to act. Reduction of this kind in the army
was false economy. The parish rates would be
increased because, if men were discharged, he apprehended
the Government would not part with the most efficient, and
the men so discharged were unfit for agricultural pursuits;
and even if they were there was no demand for their labour,
and so these men would swell the already over-crowded
workhouses. Pie trusted protection would again become the
law of the land. He might be told that it was unlikely or
impossible, but what was unlikely when it was remem-
bered that, in 1846, the Peelites voted for the repeal of the
corn-laws? He would contend to the last for the princi-
ciples of protection, and to his dying day it would be a source
of regret to him that so many of their Lordships had voted
for the corn-laws against their own convictions.—(Hear.)
Earl FITZ WILLIAM had so much confidence in the
honesty of his Noble Friend, that he entertained no doubt
he would redeem the pledge _lie had given, that he would
contend for (protection ; but he, must remember that public
opinion in this country had grown, and that a mass of
ability, energy, and untiring perseverance had grown up in
the middle classes of this country, by the power of which
protection had been torn away. It was not the Anti-Corn-
law League that would have carried the repeal of those laws,
if it had not found a basis in the feelings and opinions of the
mass of the people, and his Noble Friend must win the
opinion of the country to his principles. As to the taxation,
the weight of it did not press exclusively upon
agricultural property, but upon factories and other property
that might be called realised, but was totally distinct from
agriculture. The Noble Earl proceeded to deprecate
that sort of warfare between classes which the language
used by his Noble Friend unfortunately tended to encourage.
He recommended his Noble Friend and those who acted
with him not by their own conduct to place those who ca-
villed at the landed interest, and regarded it as injurious to
the country, in the position of being really in the right.
This much he would say—that the gentlemen of 1841
might, if they had chosen, have made a much better bar-
gain than they did, and if they had now no protection at all
it was their own fault. With respect to Ireland, his Noble
Friend (the Marquis of Lansdowne) had given notice of his
intention of moving for the appointment of a Committee on
the subject of the Irish poor-law. Whatever was to be
done with respect to the amendment of the Irish poor-law
should be effected without delay, and he feared the appoint-
ment of a Committee might occupy a considerable period.
The Earl of YARBOROUGH wished to state shortly the
reasons which would induce him to vote against the amend-
ment. He was not prepared to say that they should retrace
their steps with regard to the removal of protection, for by
doing so they would only expose the agricultural interests to
all the agitation to which they had been exposed during the
last three or four years., He was glad that her Majesty's
Ministers had made no allusion. in the Speech from the
Throne to the agricultural. interest, and he had hoped that
no allusion would have been wide, to it in the course of the
debate.
The Duke of ARGYLE thought that it would be nothing
short of a great public calamity, if the amendment of the
Noble Lord was adopted. He conceived that in 1845 the
question of protection was Betted, and it would only be pro-
per again to agitate the queetion when there was an obvious
failure of free trade. He denied that there had been any such
failure.—(Hear.) He had lately, returned from Scotland
intelligent farmers of' the country, and he knew that they
where he had been in communication with some of the most
did not regard the change with alarm. They believed that
the present state os the price
of corn was owing to this
being the period of transition. He should heartily give
his vote against the amendment.
The Duke of WELLINGTON addressed the House as fol-
lows :—Notwithstanding the latenesiof the hour, I cannot
refrain from addressing a few words to your Lordships to de-
precate the voting this amendment to the Address, and, also
shortly to state my reason for giving a vote against the amend-
ment.—(Hear, bear.) I greatly admired the speech which
my Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Brougham) delivered
in the early part of the evening. M Noble and Learned
Friend was the first Person in that House fully to appre-
ciate the state of affairs ou the Continent, which rendered
it extremely difficult for this country to succeed in its exer-
tions to maintain the- peace of Europe.—(Hear, hear.) I
was always sensible of the extreme delicacy and difficulty
attending the position of public affairs on the continent of
Europe during the whole of the 3 ear 1848—(Hear, hear)_
and I have been all along most anxious that nothing should
be done to throw the smallest difficulty or impediment in the
way of the Government, or which should give occasion to
the smallest ground for believing that the Government was
not supported by the public opinion of this country.—(Hear. )
For this reason, I confess that I was relieved from intense
aexiety, when, in the Speech from the Throne this day, I heard
her Majesty read that paragraph in which it was stated that,
as soon as " the interests of the public service will permit, I
shall direct the papers connected with these transactions
to be laid on the table of the House." I was gratified
to hear this declaration from her Majesty, as I
had hoped that it would have had the effect of preventing a
discussion on those delicate affairs until the House was fully
informed of the measures adopted by her Majesty's Govern-
ment, and of the reasons which had actuated them. The
House, however, entered upon the discussion of these ques-
tion, notwithstanding her Majesty had promised that the
papers should be furnished as soon as was consistent with
the pablic'service, or that they might have an opportunity of
discussing them with a knowledge of the facts of the case.
MyLords, I am aware that a great deal must be explained.
A Noble Lord on thib side of the 'House (Lord Beaumont)
118 oxprootsed a wog opinion with respect to Naples

~. ,