The Sun.
London, England, 1813-02-26 00:00:00

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ritteriding.to their case; end ihnse angry f;Y2l'infr:i
will`slatitti!.* The sittl'e,estibil the I. if • tit r.'
tlethau bad ken :wended to; hut what .Cras the tone
and' ,teniper in wide!: they now apol:ed to
meat Jtniight have been-•ef4ected that in
firstinstunce, sonic grateful test Miony tloe
they eaterteint.,i -of the step tlui(co .I.l:ur!iaxect:
tvOuld have give». insterollofea, sban titter
they had 'had intelligence of what. it id passed in ,
the month:of Tuly, 1812., certain res:Y;ations were
published, - signed by their Seerv::l7,
forth, " that they curtained se.:.iusituppreven-
sions that religious Perseeetion ..vas anotit to re-
commence in Ireland: 'Thus, havingineti that
for Which they, had lone' •stranz:.,;,led, their-.es
were no sooner attended to than the r..*ilotini w;;s
met by no attempt to -propagatt: an :ilen that•,
persecution was about to commence: C,*, -the
part of the Catholics there appeared a dispo.-
sition to accept of nothing short of the whole of
'what they demanded, of that hot as an un-
qualified right. luineed of askingThr protection,
they asked for power, and claimed its as their
right. He was not. surprised at being thus cheer-
ed, for he believed there were some Gentlemen in
that' House who would say that. they were justi-
fied in claiming it as a right. If.so, he begged to
ask in 'o,,l»it manner It could be proved that an es-
tablishment like ones, in which a Protestant King
and the Pretestant Religion were npheiti by. the
Ivy, had not a right to support itself by• the law !
the, Comtitution oFtlie lan i ? lie would ask if It
is not aeknowlet:gc:l by ell the best writers, that
the right of self-preservation was the clearest and'
the most paramount of 'all tieties ? When the Cal.
tholies Tut forth o,eir chum to civil rights; with-
out any qualificetion, he believed very fen, of
people would go with them: The flight 117.0nouir-
able Gentle Man who had brought forward thenre..;
sent motion, he was not for coneediog the claims •
of the Catholics without some qualifications, aunt
his Right Honourable Friend • (Mr. Canning) he
was sere ‘vould call forlarge securities. Inc was
convinced it would be iMpoSsible for any Pnrlia-
ment long to maintain a Protestant Monarchy and
Church, which complied, with, the donands of the
Cattail,* and unconditionally conceded whet
they'required. The right of a man to Worship
his God in his own way, he-considere4. to be ate
indelible right, hot when the advotate.s of the'
Catholic, carried _this further, and, seid that a man.
in any sOciety, worshipping his God aprinst the•
Established Chu re.di; ought, because he was free-
ly allowed to do this, to be placed in every respect
on, the same farsting as a. Member of the. Estkib-.,:
lishedChurch, ho could not admit, without an
adenuate, security being; given. When, however,
in'tfie case of the Catholics, any thing was said
abootAtaliticat'ona., far froinagreeing to, any thing,
of this sort, they felt indignant at such a proposi-
tion beingsubmitted to them ; and in one instance
had come to a resolution, winch reprclented
last requiring such Security as that which. \\Mild
be likely to spread irritation, endanger many
sites, and risk thb.llllVatirM 'of the -country:- 'An '
order of thig kindthey had 'affected to e'ottsititl;
piece.of inO.titing mockery.. The' Right Honour-
able Gentleman (Mr. Grattan), Oh a former occa.
Sicu, when bringing this' subject forward, had
spoken a good ikual ion,the subject of foreign in-
fluence. On thislople he had notenitir„irvd,„
opening this debate, butt formerly lie had .inain-
tained, that a provision ought to be made agaiirit
fOreigninfthence. Ile then adverted to the writ-
ings • of Mr. Clinch, frOin which lie read several
passageslon this head, insisting on,. the right of
unrestrained correspondence. This right, it was:
here stated, their ancestors were, very. jealous of,
even with a Catholic establishment ; hence it was
inferred:that it was still more 'anxiously guarded
by the Catholics of the- present day, as the v were
subject to .a Protestant .l stablishment. lie pro-t,
ceeded to comment on the difliculties of carrying
the , plan, of the Right 1.-lonourable , Gentleman
(Mr. Grattan) into effect. He was surprised that'
be should think that the' Llouse would sailer those
clauses which 'he (Mr, G.), proposed .to insert in
the preamble of his Bill, which were of such great
importance to the Constitution:, to be given ttp for
the pturpoie of being thus re-enacted in this
This he (Mr. G ) had proposed to make a • funit-
mental law which could not he repealed, but he
B.) knew of no law which could he so en-
acted as to he putout of the power of the supreme
body of the .Start, to repeal it. The. Right :ion.
Gentleman would thenintrodure a sweeping repeal
of all disabilities. Catholics would then' be soft
fered to sit in Parliament DM the .11,ieht Ilona
Gentleman mean to repeal the. Corporatioo utnut
Test Acts'? It was desirable know his plan
before they went into the. CornMittee. Those
Acts which he-had named had been thought, ervo•
neously perhaps, by Blackstone,. acid others of us
great authority, to he the bulwinks .of tlie Coristi-
tuition, and.he, wished to. k.ll-otv how far tt' Right
Honourable (rentlemannw.-.. repared to.
When a favourable time arrived for attaining hone
objects which the Ilight:'Hon Gentlen`ian had in'
view, he should hailit with unfeigned joy ; but at
present, behoved the Muse would not go into
the Committee. The question ought Itot nosy to
to be lent where it was last year. lt had heen
thrown back.by the intemperate conduct of the
Catbolies, which. had excited. a strong sensation
against tlwrn •in the minus of the Protest:mt.:L.-,
Had tht Catholics' been more moderate; the Pro-
teStants `would have been less apprehensive; and
had.their petitions been- differ,:ntly _warded, the
clay when their prayer could he attended to.would
have arrived sooner, in Ids opiulou, than it could
now he expected.
Mr;GRATTAN' explained.
.I)z,rtuotrr:admitted.that nothing ought to
be givetutathe•CatholinOvhHi could not be con,..
ceded with security to the State, but at the same
tiitse he-contentled 'that nothing ought to be wit
teldoodess it could be shown there would be in,
security in granting it.. The Catholi6 to
complain of most, provoking disabilities, predll4-
eci as they were frorn rising in the learned .nrofes-
sloes, and'in the artily,. beyond '.lt eertaitt
'when we admit them 'to wealth and knowledge,
wt give :them the. elements of power, yetdettiO
them-the exercise of it, fu. every society (pnttiol.,,
utailitary fume oot of the question) wealth 'roil
lintiwtedke gave:power,;.but hr the .ease cat the ca-
tholics we inverted the order of things. \Ye ex-
-eludtd Lord Itingall Onto the Senate, while his
Meisiber• oftbe. State
tenial gervant wig' a

ier2r.sT;):: of all the ordinary.p...lociple§ Ttlie
seeietv-trewther, 'was digrifcied with 'thr
r)t conitituticnt.. was Slcid the Coy!,
;tii„tioe: be alt.ared- if the prayer,of the, Ca,'
Crltthtilies wished
liii the. Constitution as 1t I.'', to hear itshurdens: •
a:3,i partieipate in Its fate. They were rea.ly
tr) their fortunes, and
ieto the'ser.:ice of the public ; but they
to I,,Th-te tient teeir,,con,;:..ienee, their re-
gion, t I 'their hoilow., without winch they.
dangerceisl.sci.tes:-,--Their. ancestors,
Cqtholics, werecons'otent
act '.ore, tb agb they were had. Their
hod a tiialiolleal perL'etiott. It hod been done
:nut they considern.!g it; they could
go 1;:oA. This ,kes useless. The tone for them,
to,have paused ..was before they heaved till' those
,0,1, of the earth, thot.c: Mountain's., which the
d.,e fears of their ancestors had heaped',
00. thee:. Saonirt they how hurl them on the'Ca-
-001:es again,?--VsTbere was the, nuts mein that
ot, it ? Wilat,then must be done, for
it Was imooF;sible to think things could reai.tri as
they were ? The Catholics were, not to be reg:,,'Ll-
ed as slaycs who sought emancipation Mint ti.eie
chains, Their • claims were tl nitwit to be at-
tended to what the'; 11041 obtained as for what
they had.ooc. Placed in this ~,-ituutien, must
be base„did they, not aspire to mire' : than they
haye, odious mid contemptible if they, dissembled
it,; 'fbey:wreild be formidable as domestic ene-
neies, if, they did
.nnt entertain the sentiments
they avow, for the empire could .not long resist
the contagion of four millions of suck degraded
wretches as they must be; if having what, they
have,they could leel indiffer,ent about that to whit:h
they.now lay claim. The anomalies of the pre-
sent system, he. proceeded to point out,, trod
commented with. great force ,011 the i11e01136-
tetity of sudering Catholics to be ,Lleefors,
(grand Jurors, &c. in ~,otne. parts apt&
_empire,
where they might be., dangerous, „ while,
were excluded from those situations,
.in other
Tarts, where they hadit not inJ.heir power to be
other than !toneless, It was said a Catholic
could not be credited on his oath, and yet, .i
his oath he might he admitted to our estAblish-,
luentg,- luiviiti; no titiv to cootidenee but his per-
At' -Catholics were not to be believed oh
their.oaths, itedead of haring petitions on their
'table, Praying for se.enrhy.agoinst exiweted claw
_ger; their prayer ought to he for re,3cue from pie-
sent evils. 11..-the gceat htilwark of the COnstitu:
Cum nit'it be overthrown t 9 satkly the Catholies,
he adMitted their prayer should be refused. Let
it be shawl► that the, great principle laid down at
Revolution forbid them to hope, and they ite.ist
bow to their sentence, as to ale decree of fate ;
but before they submitted to this eternal inter-
dict; he would appeal to every man if. they Were
not entitlettto have it shewnllient, not. by.vague
assertion, hat by evidence, clear and bright as the
light of ileaven,:that what they asked-was in-
xonsistent with the security of the Constitution.
Ile wished this to be discussed and proved, if it
.could beproved ; but lie warned them Vl' beware
hoW theft outlawed' Ireland 'by an interested atta
'fuetitmv.ofouour..Let not those 11'110 promised
:redress, 'affect, to consider theneselees bound by a
spell 4:4-t-lieir..ovvil raising, This might lead ;to
diSitsteU; equalle4l Only by tbe acetunpanying
grace.. The only: two. guards devised against the •
incroaehments.of the Catholic.; were the Oath of
:Stinremacy ainV the Declaration against Piipery.
I,trith regard to the first, it had .ory,inally little
of rl porn ical aspect. lie' did not allude to the
periOd of, Ileory the 4il;hth, when the tyrannical.
dictates of, the Monarch were to be received Fib
.the behil4S a deity ;.but in the time of janteS
.the Se-condi; when' the Oath oU Supremacy Was
not of n.political.natare. That this was the care
appeare,d. from
.the circunistance that the C:itho-
lies a 'hundred years after the fteforinati
were '-iUhuitced to. Sit in Parliament. .17,xclasion
was-thervforenot a part'of .the Refortnatioo, and
'it was not till the reign of Charles the Seeohd,
that the 'oath 'r.ra's Ini\ed with policy, and, religions
renunciation was required to qualify a person for
holdiog.an °thee in. the ;State. At that.pet io.l he
held these guards to have been necessary ;but not
now, when they lied departed from the Reformai
tient by tolerating the Roman C religion,,
and, receiving' itas in not,,ing• Imitin: to their po-
litir,,il establishments. fie wished to be told, In.
plant tan!rible ladgatage, 'wh.it principle So
touch had.' been given, told the rest refused ; and;
.contended that there was no good re:mon for per-
this Coarse, Whi,:n re.itedon the reiection
of'it Rinaan Catholic's :.f-headhered to his
religion, and 011 the belief of his assertion if he
abandouel it. This was wors,.- tlnto tl'an:ittbstan-
tiatiOtt. AS tilt 'the declUratioo sttiainst PotierY,
he maintaitted, that by their oaths the Catholics
(knit:a-the te,Uporul power' of the and,
bouod themselves. to continue and support; the
Protestant Establislonent.in Chtireh and State.
But they wished them to swear toe the abstract
principle ; he thought, it enough that they
did the thing, Oct the subject of the nomination
of the. 4ishops he held, that and 'perfect sa-
tisfaCtiou otWit to be given' tti the 'Protestants.
Smelt seenvities, in his opinion, inigbilui deviled
It ironic! satisfy them; without :being inconistent.
with, the esseth;e. of the Catholic faith ; and this
was' it strmig nrgument for going into the. Gun.
inittee.: It wr.,l asited, woidd you repeal the Cot.,
poration and
,Test
.A,cts.? thonght,they should
be, repeiled. It Was a burlesque,on the ilevOlit,-
tion to call
.these its bulwarks, or'rather a bur-
lesque upon onStittztion, frere die' Learned
Geotleman went into. a history of the •e Arts, to
,ilelVthalotheforintir was not nut oduced
1,- .
the.; Catholics but agtilost whet' Accbries,
latter by Lord Shaftesbury to ket9, wlt the Duke
of , York front,the throne. The oati-.cs for ikdiV.,
hug them were. gone past, ;Itsla vet thee Inwious
ftal,,lneuts were; fr-ret:liued and ellthAlled :its the
bui)warLs Of the Snarl • Ile then Went into .a si-
consideratiou of , the Bill of .Itights, of
which 'the exclusion of the CAtflotici from office
formed no Hart; and .therefoie it. could not 1111 W
be brought to, sie next
atlyerted .to
.tht! ~,:evaitee of the treaty of
T.timeriek, told deseri!:- t that treaty att 'the'OnlY _
stain upon the Reps-A:Tit 'W€14:41:4 of..per-
tidy ;ind injwitice tow t the Catholics.
hold front the.o I 5I by it,
but which, so

planted by in:re• ceed pins and penalties,: -fie did
not believe the Itreit esco.ol ritat day were aware
of rile injustice they 'were doink, when thoy
ed the Act, imposing new 'tlitenities in the Ist of
AVillitunenel Mary ;Init tits (sere tnieled b 7 set
echo then , as at ail 'tithes, ..vere algiut the
.
Court, ',misrepresenting their 'cainftry: lit se great
men had declered sovcr eignty to be Protestant,
thiaking this a snflieient security ,and hadleft the'rtst
to dine, and the tiitie was (Jots'corne for posterity to
ter. The country wus, nett' fighting the stun. b:itt le
Its I'Cing ktit with a nun* powerful euemy
than .Louis the '(1 V. But ►
they lettl also graatei
r.seeeirees.. King Wilillate, • fi:otn
.was
couip,died to vetch one hal:. Ifi;; stilects tvhile
•he sought ''Ss i.tli thc other. Were they to tol.Tew this
pert of his esample without the stone necessity?
II
;:t.dellpred he fielieved that by oneact tliey toigh
unite all to strike with hand and-heart nOinst the
Colossus to whore they were opposed. Let them
not, then, by withholding thiS from Ireland,
doom her to gloom, amid the bright prospects
dateline; in every other part of. the Berpire. Ie
could never aseertaln ,:e`as meant uy the cry
01_ the Church being in danger. These conces-
sions w;niiii neither endenger it now nor hcree-'
ferth. Row could it thus overterned;intlier by
force and oul of that Ilnusei Or
,t sir power in it?
if hy,force, the Catholics were as conipetent to
the task, nOtv, as they could -be then ; and as for •
the idea',of„a few Catholic 'Members at quiring
3.sceulattey'vlrti,t; their: wails, it was th'e reveit.
of a: disiirdered lie enlarged upim the pre-
sent being the fittestepossible time for seeite; if
any thing could he done, and-pot sto, till tor-
bulent.times, *when the-Irish C:-ttliolies, would he
as oretloaninant in property as they were now iii. `
numbers over their Protestant fd)ow-itiltjecoi
that country.. TbeestabliShed relieioietettuLl antfer''
no danger fro n this. •It was a plant of. ee hirtn;,
• tired years growth, and. its root had struck *jeep''
into the State, so that it could not be'sletkeo but
hy a eolitieal. earthcptAlte. It was also *it(a ed,
less disgraced by betty; made a pOlijical
Mr. P. then applied liimSelt to answer. the :irgu-.
Merits 1)1 the tnyeeding speaker, as 10 the eile-t on
his thiod of Inc nureeretet Pi2tit ions of the EttgliSit'
peo,pre against the Catholic Claims, and the. vie
-
kneee ;led intetnperance displayed by the Catliolici.f,
thenisclres. To the formor'he replied, that it Wits
nither dishouest argtiment against, the Irish, as
at the lirtiou they were taught to expect heater,
facilities in the prosecution of their Claims In the
Imperial Parliunient, and here was it Matter
1)1.06;414 to rebut them, which would not have
any effect in the-Irish Parliament. But he denied
the filet of the people of Englaud being hostile to
those Claims ; and ridieuled the idea ot appealing ;.
to a rabble to-. decide an intricate and complex
queStion of State policy. Witli respect to the se-
court point, he condemned time violence of indivi-
duals, and Of bodies,• amonte the Catholics, as
,
much as any tuan. Their intemperance was of-
fensive aed diSgusting, and it relined
to see them usurping power over the 1h.,.4t sacred
rights Of man, bolding an inquisitiee o;er pyivate
persons and families, ao,tl endeavouring to eon-,
trout the elective franchise.' As 'little could he
reconcile himself to the tone of peremptory de-
mand employed by them, But 'was it fair tip visit
this
.upon the whole. Catholics Of Ireland, who
were as much offended by it es the honourable
Gentleinan or hiniself? ' They were engaged. to
legislate, and not to be heated by the imprtidewee
of a. party. A measure attempting to give .Sitis-
faction would hate tts s t.'4,:ft. • When it was seen
in Ireland (II
,GOVertlMent were ready to act ii-
' be. rally, and were only Withheld by these intent-
-perate demands, it would separate the sound from
the ansomul among the Cat tolioi, and their disaf-
f,:cted demagogues and orators, with all their
mike, would sink: into Ws iTnifiettnee. That party
Wished, nrithing so much ss refusal on this ocersioli,
that they :night keep alive the thune of discord,
aiid by this the Government would he recruiting
far thetn. Neither had thy pnt it into tho'
w
poer of the good Ca w tholics' to drtyn those Who
Called theinsetve3 their friends, bet tune they had
no alternative, but to ,throW rhemselv,!s at the
feet of :t Governmeut,. Which had declared it
woelil not. liSten to' their 'deelaratiens,
blamed the Government for 'tilt untavottrahlp
change that hail taken, place iu the temper of the.
t-ntholics.. It they could apply ant remedy, they
ought f(i matte the attempt in time ; aml if the
measure was inadmissible, they ought to pet dewn
the fence of hope by the certainty of veteetion,
and',endeavottr to reeoncile. the Catholics to the
gloom. of tilt it con.;itioe lie ~pett:c.•Witil perfect
sincerity; told if they went iutn Conintittee, he
• would co-operite with :dl his power to devise
means. to satin;,.,' the (...'ettholies, and at the same
ttue, give ample security to tilt Protcl/4tantS,
illtploed to he :t tnexeire, winch it could
not, he: while the Catholic Clergy were in their
present state of precarious. depera.tenee on their
parishieners. its to' the. Veto, he thought the
douse might fairly give it up, hut takiog cure to
SeCtirti dome:;ti,!uchttinatio:t tat tilt. P.i,hop,, to
which the Catholic body did
,not object. Even
now the Pope did tint nminate, ald all that 'm:;
Watite,l on.this subject .wits to de,that by legisl
tion which was 111Oiv dOlltt by canonical election.
his speech was received With loud cheers by
the oppos:tion.]
Voaxe, in a very 'able and aroeentettatire
spev.eh, replied to the lion. and Lenrni.,l (;enth7-
mail, whom etimplhnentol for the hril-;
litimit display of eloipteoee he had
,jest
ntad,e, whieli proved him a valli-lele
Sttioll to the 11 OttSe ; yet ChPlueitt lis he was,,lie
lett! tailed eouvilieleg hint, ;old he requested,
the inthkigoice of the itoz:tse v.'hih: he Btated the.
!A:rounds Am v 4 Lieh. he held jt del,eeot. opinion. It
we, evident the. Honourable tientlet4all 114)1
of the point where the danger,
.14y, amid
lie (Nir.X.) confessed, that if unit that point,
flit; peril of forelett ieterierence, he cotild he
hi! woulizi 101 l himself to the tint thou, and
-tie(' bow, far they coulkl satisfy the claims' of they
Ca.tholks. Itefure eemitig to tia argorttenttill
ails, however, he:?,et the 1.100 Geotletnatt right
in let's or thrte pitse:Tes.in which he lutd mish;i7
derstood his lion, .kirieiel Ctlr.
Friend hit4djutititiCa <hi> .ClVlnge of.
opinioe, riot Oft the se tintents expreisetl by tise
shinty, the resoluttee of
last S'ession, limit :el the gicat; itl...eratien that had
'taken tole of lhelversteltants.ofeire,