The Sun.
London, England, 1822-07-06 00:00:00

CORN RILL.

The Order of the Day. havingbeen read ; - •
Earl BAVIIURST, in rising to move that the House re-
solve itself. into a Committee on the Corn Bill, expressed his,
concern that the task should have devolYed upon him in conse-
quence of the absence and indisposition of his; Noble Friend'
(the Earl of. Liverpool.) His first wish had been to Postpone
the Committee, but as many Noble Peers had come from'the
Country on purpose to attend the debate, he had thought that it
would be more convenient for them that he should proceed ;••
the more so, as he could not say positively whaolay next
week it would be in, the power of his Noble Friend to open
the subject. In taking that duty uponhimself, he should not
enter into the .origin of the existing agricultural distress, as
its ciuses•did not appear to him-to affect the Present- Bill, which
was only intended to amend the Corn Act. It was well known
by their Lordships, that under the provisions of that Act,
all importation of wheat and
,other grains was entirely prohi-
bited till the home price of corn rose to 80s. per quarter, when
unlimited importation might suddenly take plaCe. Much incon-
venience had been experienced from this quick transition from
a total prohibition to unlimited importation, and from the cOnse-
quent variations of high and •low prices.. Wheat might-
also' be warehoused whilst the ports were open, and even after
they had been closed, it was brought to market, to the great
detriment of the British farmer. The object of this Bill was
to prevent the effects produced by that sudden transition
from prohibitiori to _unlimited importation. This 'could only
have been done in two ways; either by regulating the quan-
tity to be imported, or by establishing a scale of duties. The
former could never have been done effectually, even had the
importation been confined to one port ; the latter was there-
foi e adopted. It was now proposed that as soon as the home
price, should rise to between seventy and eighty shillings .per
quarter,Toreigit wheat should be imported on paying a duty of
17s. per quarter for the first six weeks, and of 12s. after.—
Should the home price rise to 80s. or Ms., the duty on foreign
wheat would be 10s. for the first three months, and ss. after,
and should the price continue to rise, the duty would fall down
to one shilling, or become merely nominal. the advantage
of this measure would not be confined to the protection given
to British fainieri againit sudden and unlimited importation,
but to that afforded him against the irruption of.warehoused
corn into the market: Few warehoused corn would now not be
considered as imported, and could not be brought to market
until it had paid the new duties, which would be a considerable
check on the operations of speculators. It had been said that
the duty imposed on foreign grain would not be sufficient to
protect British farmers. But it must be considered, that be-
sides thiS ditty of 17s. per quarter, the:expence of freight and
insurance amounted to not less than 125., besides the usual five
per cent. for mereantile profit. Their Lordships would there-
fore see-that foreign wheat would have .to pay 295. per quar-
ter in duty and expence of freight and insurance before it
could be brought into the market ; this added to its own
value, which might be reckoned at 48s. per quarter, would
make it impossible for merchants to introduce it into this country
at a less price than seventy seven shillings, which would :give
British Fanners an ample degree of protection. He should
probably be told that foreign wheat might be purchased at 385.,
.per quarter ; but the. reason that its price was so low was, • that
our ports were closed ; the Moment our market should be
thrown open, the price would rise as it had invariably 'done on
former occasions. Neither was it to be believed that foreign

Lord ERSKINE contended that the object of the authors of
this Bill was to -repeal to a certain extent the Act which they
had brought in themselves for the protection of British farmers
in 1815. As there was no pressing necessity for such a men.-
sure, he trusted that his Majesty's Ministers would have no
objection to postpone its conipletion until the next Session.__
He then took a,view of the flourishing condition-of agriculture
during the, war.; When peace came, the markets bad grown
lower and lower, and had fallen down to nothing, becalm the
GoVernment was.nolonger in the field. It was on that account
that his Majasty's Ministerahad passedthe Corn Act, vriaich it
was attempted to repeal by the present Bill ; a Bill to which
the Noble Earl might justly apply the name of nightmare, for
it had hem debated ..night after night in the house of Com.
mons ' • but it 'was a nightmare which, unlike all others, con--
tinned after people were awake, for the incubus lay on the
mind of agriculturists, morning, noon, and night. He consi-
dered his Majesty!s Ministers- entitled to high praise for hays'
ing passed the Corn Act as they had done, notwithstanding
the violence displayed by the people oh that occasion; for I
though friendly to the principle of a free trade, 'he con-
ceived that that principle could only be brought into operation
when the country was in a natural state; which was not the
case during a 'war of liberatitin, thrown upon us by necessity.
The Noble Earl had admitted. that corn might be purchased
abroad at 355..; how then could a duty'of 175., which would
make the price of a quarter of foreign grain only 525., yield
sufficient.protection to British,farmers ? The Noble Lord then
went into the history of the proceeding:: of the House of Com,
mons and of its Committees, the Reports of which had laid the
foundation for the present measure. - He wished that instead of
lowering the protecting price, it should have been raised above
89a.,..'-or that such a duty should have,-been laid as would have
proved effectual. When there were more than 300 Petitions
on their, Lordships'• table against this Bill, for what purpose
was the public mind agitated by an attempt to legislate that
which it was admitted must-beat present totally inoperative ?
Such a measure ought not to pass unless a proportionate re-
duction should have taken place in die taxes of all kinds, which,
agriculturists had to payao the State and to the poor'. Could
the Noble Earl believe that if foreign corn should be imported
at 52s.'the British farmer should he protected in raisifig his
corn and bringing it to market ? Speculators would not-be'so
easily checked as the Noble Earl seemed to imagine. They
would. cut his throat for one half. per cent. more. But their
Lordships were told, that in order to remedy AgticultOral dis,
tress, it was only necessary to throw the pitor lands out of cul-.
tivatioh ! The Landholder should reply, ‘" I don't see the
'use of all this taxation • it must be reduced; it will be only
throwihg the' Three pe;Cents. out of interest." Suppose the
poor lands should.be thrown out.of cultivation, what would
become of their proprietors ? What farmers asked was i;e-
munerating price, and before the passing of such a Bill 'as
the present, burdeng.must be equalized : manufactures, which
brought `so many poor' into a parish, and the large buildings
'of which were not charged more than so many barns, inust.
pay.iii a more equal proportion. Had there been any Peti,
-.tions in faVour of this- Bill ? its professed object was the
relief of those who were deemed not to have been suffi-
ciently relieved by the Act of 1816, and yet it'was a measore,
which its authors admitted they would-be afraid of passing if it
were not to be totally inoperative at this moment ! They had
rio right to pass new laws to affect Agriculture, with Out first
lightening its burdens. But it would be said surely this Bill
cannot be so bad, for it has passed the Commons by a very
large majority, and the Commons abound with Representa-
tives of the Landed Interest. It happened sometimes, however,
that men seemed to have forgotten the opinions which they had
expressed abroad, when once they came into that House, and,
indeed, . .
" There are more things in Ileav'n or earth—
" Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
• The Noble Earl then recapitulated his arguments against the
andmoved that it be committed this day,three months.
Lord DACRE conceived that nothing could possibly yield
immediate relief to agriculture; and therefore regretted that
an attempt should be made to legislate in a manner injurious
to Agriculthrists at the very moment when nothing could be
done available to them. At Dantzic corn now sold at 32 or
338, ; the expence of conveyance and tonnage was proportionably.
small, and on an average, a quarter orgrain could be imported for
385., to which, if the proposed duty of 17s. were added, it would
be found that the whole price in our markets would not exceed'
555. He allowed that foreign corn would rise the moment our
ports were opened ; but speculators would take care not to let
it mount so high as to approach the protecting price in this
country. He implored the Noble Earl to abstain from 'legis-
lating on the subject at. present. Next year, time, circum-
stances, and even accident, might elucidate many points
which would render legislation more easy and beneficial.—
From the inquiries which he had made, he was not satis-
fied that superabundance of produce was the chief cause,
or any cause of Agricultural Distress. The number of
inclosures, which had ' been mentioned as a proof of over pro-
duction, 'was only 1800, comprising about five millions of acres.
This formed about 1-7th of the number of acres in cultivation,
and 1.14 th more produce than in 1800. But then the increase
of population had been so great, 'as to keeP more than pace
with that.of production. If before the neat Session it should be
found that superabundance of produce was not the cause of
agricultural distress, the House Would have to legislate in a
very different manner, from what it was now called upon to do.
It was not, therefore, too much to ask for delaY, when there was
not one efgriculturist in the country who was not ready to peti-
tion their Lordships not to give him that relief which they were
now preparing and professing to afford him.
The Earl of HARROWBY maintained that the only points
to be ascertained were, whether their Lordships ought to legis-
late now, and whether the present Bill was such a measure as
they should 'lsm. • If they were to wait till every possible cause
and shadow of cause of the present diStress had been ascer-
tained, they would notsatisfy the 'expectations of the country,
which, if-it did not look for immediate relief, at 'least expected
from the wisdom of . Parliament that a prospective remedy
should be provided for those evils which experience had shewn
to exist. The agriculture of the country had now for three
years and a half- enjoyed a complete monopoly of its own
market, 'and yet there had been a continual lowering of
prices. '['his he was disposed to attribute to the. quantity
of corn imported at the beginning of 1819, which' being fol-
leived by three abundant harvests, .occasioned a heavy weight
on the market, which had since continued to be felt. The

Lord REDESDALE remarked on the assertion that this
was the fittest time for legislating on the subject, because no
clamour had been excited. It ought to be remembered-that
the agricultural -body, with whom much of the labour of the
country was connected, was at present in a very agitated state,
and therefore he did not see that advantage -now offered
with respect to time, of which some Noble Lords had spoken.
He objected to the present measure, as it had a tendency to en-
courage gambling speculations in corn, and thus to pioduce
fluctuations in the price whith it was the interest of the coun-
try should not be experienced. At present there was a great
depression, not only in the price of corn, but in that of sheep,
tattle of all sorts, and every description of agricultural pro,
duce. The farmer was distressed' not merely because of _the
money price of corn, but because he could not get those articles
of which he stood in need in the way of barter for that portion
of produce Which would formerly suffice to purchase them. If
the burdens which the fanner had now to pay-absorbed two
bushels of wheat where they formerly called for one, it could
easily be understood how the agriculturist was distressed. A
similar pressure was felt on the Continent. The fanners there.
were in an artificial state, as well as the farmers of this coun-
try. It was not to be expected that the prices would continue
what they were now, when things had got into a more settled
state. He therefore was unwilling, under such circumstances,
to pass a Bill like that new before their Lordships: This tiles.:
sure he objected to, as one which was to have no regular sys-
tem for its foundation, but was to depend on averages and re-
turns from time to time. Every measure of this sort Was
very liable to abuse. It was known that abuse_had occurred
under this system. 'lt led to a species of garbling like that
of 'Change-alley, where the bulls and the bears endeavoured
to' raise or depress the price of Stock, according to their
peculiar interests. But those who went there, met with
those who knew how to counteract their effects. But the
agricultural body were in such a situation that they were
unable to oppose the schemes of those speculators whose in-
terests were opposed to theirs. The importation of. foreign
fine flour to mix with English flour was sometimes useful. He
should prefer a constant limited importation of grain, subject
to a proper scale of duties, to the plan now stiggested to guard
against the evils of a scarcity. - Tins he thought would be pre-
ferable to exquding foreign grain altogether, till the price of
wheat rose to 80s. the quarter, and then acting on a flew sys-
tem
fotinded on the lower price of Ps. He wished the passing
of this Bill to be postponed till further information should have
been obtained. He could.see no object in passing the Bill in
the present Session, as unless the price of corn rose to. 80s., of
which 'there was no prospect, it could have no effec on the
wheat now in warehouse. He 'offered some comment on ere
warehousing system, and cdncluded by giving his opposition
to the Bill. • ,

Lord ELLENBOROUGH considered the argument opposed'
to this Bill applied to it but as a permanent measure. The,
fact was, it ought not to be so considered, as they were legi-
slating to remedy a present evil growing out of the existing;
law. He was of opinion that under this Bill the bonded corn
might gradually be brought into consumption without injury
to the agriculture of the country, but in such a manner as to
prevent the price of Wheat rising to Ns., which he thought
would do good, He hoped their Lordships would allow the
Bill to pass, not as a permanent measure, but as one to carry
us through present difficulties till we got to a state of things
which would-admit of the passing of a law more permanent, in
its character.

Earl DARNLEY objected to the frequent interference with
those interests which were the subject of this Bill. Their
Lordships had wisely declined to institute an inquiry in the
course of the vresent Session ; but the House of Commons had:
come to a different resolution, and this Bill was the conse-
quence of the inquiry they set on foot. He was of opinion
the measure, would be of no avail. The evils at present com-
plained of had a tendency to correct themselves. If the Trice
of produce declined, from that decline in price the Poor's
Rates might also he expected to decline. The tithes were in
the same proportion, whether the price of the produce was
higher or lower. High rents, he contended, had never ex-
isted generally, but where they had, a reduction must take
place. He called upon their Lordships to pause- betore they
passed this Bill, and especially as those very persons for whose
relief it had been devised, now came forward, almost ace voce,
to petition against it. They would rather be without it, and
therefore he hoped it would not be passed, as the measure 11/03
not called for by necessity. The system of averages had been
abused. lie believed that interested persons had devised means
to lower them, so as to open the ports to foreign Corn, when
there was no actual necessity for doing so. He could wish
this subject to be inquired into, and means taken to make it
impossible for such a scheme to meet with success hereafter.
It was, however, unnecessary ,to enter upon this subject
now, for unless some extraordinary act of Providence should
remove from our fields the plentiful harvest with which they
were at present loaded, the price of grain could not rise to 60,
or at all events to 70s. He felt it to be his duty to vote against
the Bill.

The Earl of MORLEY considering the uncertainty which
alwaTs attached to the produce of the soil, could not feel as
certain as the Noble Earl did, who had just sat down, that the
price of wheat would not.rise to 80s. before the next meeting of
Parliament. He thought this Bill a desirable measure of pre-
caution, and one that would he agreeable to the agriculturist_...:
They all remembered that last September the price of wheat
had-suddenly risan to 70s. Circumstances might occur to cause
a still greater advance, against the consequences of which it was
at all events desirable to guard. He should vote in favour.of
the Bill going into a Committee.
The House then divided—

Contents - . 37
Not Contents - . - . 19
Majority in favour of going into the Committee —lB

When strangers were re-admitted, the House was in a Com-
mittee on the J3i/L

The Earl of DARLINGTON expressed regret at the thin
state of the. House on the discussion of so important a mea-
sure. It had caused great alarm among the agriculturidts, and
with the view he took of it he felt it to be his duty to oppose
the measure on every occasion.
The Clauses were then agreed to without amendment, the
report was received, and the Bill ordered be to read a third
time on Monday, the Lords to he summoned.—Adjourned till
Monday.

BYNG said, that when the Order of the Day for' the .
Second reading of•the Bill came on, he should proved to move •
the second reading. '
The Petition was laid upowthe- table. -- •
Mr. CALVERT presented a similar Petition from Kentish
Town.—Ordered to lie upon the table. • •
. Mr. BYIIIO- then moved the second reading of the Bill.
• Mr. 'HUME opposed it, as being objectionable in its nature,
and calcnlated to :prejudice a case now -pending before the •
High Court of Chancery. This had been declared by'the At-
torney-General in his place in that House, and he was sur-
prised that those who originated the Bill should afterwards
think of proceeding with it. He moved that it be read a second
time that day six months. .
Mr. Alderman WOOD took the same view of the character
• of the Bill, and supported the amendment.
Sir J. GRAHAM condemned the conduct of those who op-
posed the Bill. Towards hini personally they had behaved
with a degree of scurrility which he-trusted his character was
far above. He felt them to be beneath his notice, and he de-
spised them. Amongst other calumnies, they had accused him
of motives of pecuniary gain. To this he would reply;that he
had never received h farthing for 'his professional labours since
he had been in Parliament. -He contended that the Bill was a •
'just measure, and one which ought to be supported.
Sir R. WILSON wished the Hon. Baronet to state the rea-
son why the inhabitants of Highgate, if they' wanted a Chapel,
did not proceed to build one some where else ?
Sir J. GRAHAM •did not pretend to be acquainted with the
secrets and the motives of the parties: The answer, however,
Seemed obvious; namely, -that they considered themselves to
have a right to the existing Chapel. -
Mr. Alderman HEYGATE said, that without reference to
the personalities of any of the parties, the House, in his opi-
nion, ought not to interfere with property willed by Sir Roger
Cholmely,i to convert it to any other purpose than that he con-
templated.
Sir M. CHOLIV.IONDELEY_ supported the Bill, as useful:-
to the inhabitants of Highgate.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that his judgment had neither been
influenced' by one party or the. other His opinion was first
formed upon 'the Report of the Commissioners•for inquiring
into the state of Charitable Institutions. With regard to the
system upon , which Private Bills were carried through both
Houses of ' Parliament and obtained _ the' Royal Assent; if' it
were exposed and laid open, it would Make those HouSes
themselves -shedder at the injustice which was practised upon
property, and fill the country with disgust:- There was' 'a
practice of canvassing in Committees, carried to suclean ex-'
fent, that Gentlemen were induced tb do there, -Upon ques-
tions
.involVing the 'most 'extensive- rights of rtaperty, what
they would not do in a jury box in a case of live pounds value.
Unless Gentlemen entered Parliament, as he had done -witti
a determination of having nothing to do with Private
unless they were in reality of real public importance, they
would be sure to find themselves drawn into these proceedings;
He should certainly. take ah opportunity of bringing the. SO.
ject forward, and calling the attention of the House towardi
it.He did not mean to .charge"this upon any'partieularide"
of the House, it was common to' both. He opposed theiPill,
before the House, becanse he considered they had
to apply the property of Sir • Roger Cholmeley contrary to the
direction contained in.his Will. '• He had plainly'ditected '
application to the maintenance of a school • and 'cliaffel44lld-'
ing and school-keeninieVere
of Highgate wanted a Chapel, he should be quite ready to,gtants.
them 'tv Bill authorising the usual mode of levying the MO-a:Y.
'for building one. •
Mr. WE rIIE RE LI. stiialiprted the Bill, upon the grand'. ,
that the chapel was originally intended for the use of the hiip
let, and not to be confined to the Master and sdholats of the
school. •
Mr. N. CALVERT' wished to know from 'the HOneand
.
Learned Member, whether the chapel was used for paroliiiir'
„
purposes ?
Mr. 'WETHERELL answered that it was, and that inni.e
riages had alwaYs been solemillzed there.
,The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought-the only qiiestion
could be as to the intention of Sir Roger Chclmele'y ; and, that.
was not one Which might to be decided by Parliann-,nt. It Was
a question of 'equity, which the CoUrt Of. Chancery was hest
authorised:to' decide -upon. - • • • ' •- • •
Mr. H. SU3INER was of opinion that the Hon. and Leainitd.
Gentleman. who had alluded to the proceedings in'. private Bill
business, would have done hiniself more honour if he could.
have stated that he had given his time and his talents to en-
lighten Committees so as to have -prevented those injustices, of
which he coMplained:—(Heir !):-.41e thought the Bill hail
better be withdrawn for the present:
Mr. 1.11-11 G said that he had been the partisati of neither of
he parties out of doois who opposed 'and supported this Bill.—
He brought it forward becausd he thought it • was desired*
the majority of his constituents. He-contended•thift the clial-rel
had always been considered' as belonging' to the' inhabitant's,
and that flick had a just claim' upon the property of such a
place of worship. . •
Mr. WHITBREAD expressed his regret at being obliged..i.o
oppose the Bill, in contradiction to the opinion and advice of his
Hon. Colleague. •-
The noose then divided. •

For the Second Reading - fi9
Upon our re-admission into the Gallery, we foUnd
Against i:ttia
jorit
Mr. BROUGHAg on his legs giving notice that he: Would
for-the •
_627. -.-
call the attention of the -House to the mode of passing private
Bills, on the next stage of the Bill.
•••
. Mr. CALCRAF'r said that his-Hon. Friend ought to deal
charitably to all Members, and to allow them the merit• of
being uninfluenced' by corrut• motives. He (Mr: Caleraft)
had seen much attempted in that House by men of eloquence
and superior 'persuasive powers, who; during the Wbole.Of their
address on a late occasion, did not attempt any thing but soli:,
citation : he should not name the party. That he and Others
were open-to solicitation on private questions was not e:itraOr-
dinary, because they Were connected with the country. Until
they were detected by his learned Friend in something kw-
Worthy of them, he wit in hopes he should not hear the coun-
try gentlemen designated as having 'sha-met'ul!y atterided to cl-
licitation and influence in the discharge of their public
Mr. BROUGHAM hoped that. his Hon. Friend. did nbt
mean to infer or assert that bis motion of last night,' relativelo
the Calcutta Bankers' petitiOn, had. owed its 'success to rive
influence or solicitation. lie was proceeding to describe iho
effects of a canvass he had witnessed in' a Coniinittee above
stairs, where influence and solicitation had been too effectually
used, when
Mr. H. SUMNER rising to order,,- • •• ' • -
The SPEAKER said he was satisfied the gootilense of the
Hon. and Learned Member must point' out to him at it would
be' irregular in him to pursue those extraneous observations
further.

The Bill was then read a second iirne and orderedto be omit-
mitted.

RUSSIAN CLAIM TO DOMINION IN AMERICA.

Sir J. MACKINTOSH said that he had some questions'to
put to the Noble Marquis opposite, of t whiith it would be
for him to say a few 'words in explanation before be
propounded them. The House was, without doubt, aware that
the Emperor of Russia had lately issued an Ukase,' by whi4h
he claimed as Ruitsian dominion a large portion of the North-
t toast of Asia, and the North-west milt of America, and by
which he had likewise adjudged to the Russian Empire a pOr-
tion of ocean which was not less`than 5,000 Miles broad. As a.
proof that he intended Wextrcise the'sovereienty which he had
claimed, he had forbidden all ships to come within 100 Italian
miles of the American coast within the iilst degree of north la-
titude. Now 'there wete•vveral ships at th t momelt fitt!ng
out in the port of London, to'carry oh their usual trade in that
part of the ocean-Which' the Emperor of Russia had adjudged
to hiMself. The questions which he, therefore, wished to ask
of the Noble Marquis were these : first, Had his iltajcstyl4

Government received any authentic copy of the Ukase issued
by the Emperor of Russia; in which he claimed to himself do-
minion over the North-west, coast of America and the North-
east coast of Asia ? And, secondly, if they had, whether they
had taken any measures to protect British navigation from,such
extravagant and preposterous pretensions ?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY replied to the ques-
tions, but in a very low tone of voice. We understood him to
• say, that he had received a copy of that Ukase soon after it was
issued. , As soon as his ,Majesty's Government had•received it,
they lost no time before they sent a note to the Russian Am-
bassador in this country, declaring that they-could not accede
either to the'elains of sovereignty, or the principle of maritime
law laid down in 3t.—(Heat, hear!)—.fit the same time they
offered to enter into an amicable negociation on the subject, to
prevent any misunderstanding arising between the subjects of
the two poteecs. - '•
CONDEMNATION OF A BRITISH' VESSEL IN A
SPA NISH PRIZE COURT.
Sir J. MACKIN TOSH then said, that he had another ques-
tion to put-to the Noble Marquis upon another incident that af-
fected the lawful navigation of British subjects. The House
must have heard of a -recent decree of .the Spanish Court of
Admiralty at Porto Rico, by which a British vessel, trafficking
with Buenos Ayres, had been condemned as good prize on ac-
count of an alleged contravention Of the fiscal and colonial laws
of that country. Now, though he was convinced that by na-
tional law no state had right to detain vessels as prize which
were trading with temtories over which she claimed dominion,
but of which she had not possession, ,still he did not-know of
any other mode of checking the practice which Spain had re-
cently adopted than by recognizing at once the independence of
the territories which she considered as colonies dependent on
her. He wished to ask of the Noble Marquis—first, whether
he had received any information of the condemnation of a Bri-
tish vessel at Porto Rico for a pretended contravention of the
law of Spain in trading with the Spanish colonies ; and, se-
-condly, if he had, whether he had taken any measures to pre-
vent the repetition of a similar injury in future ?
The Marys LONDONDERRY had' no recollection of
ever having eatd of such an occurrence before. Perhaps, if
the Hon. M mber would mention the name of the vessel, it
might bring the circumstance to his mind ; but at present he
had no recollection of any thing at all like it. He had not, to the
• best of his knowledge, received any information of the fact; and
if it had occurred, would he obliged to any Honourable
Member who would make him acquainted with the particulars
of it.—(Hear.)
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that the name of the vessel was
the Lord Collingwood—that he had himself seen the decree of
condemnation—and that if the Noble Marquis would permit
him, he would forward a copy of it to him for perusal. In con-
sequence of this decree, the insurances to that part of the globe
had risen from 30s. to 70s. per cent.
' The Marquis of LONDONDERRY repeated, that the do-
cument in question had never been in his possession. He should
however, be glad to peruse it.
- EXTENTS IN AID.
Mr. IV. SMITH moved the printing of the Order made on
•Saturday last by the Court of Exchequer, relative to the law
as it now stood on the subject of Extents in Aid.
After a few observations from the ATTORNEY GENERAL,
- the motion was agreed to.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
On the question being put,' that the House do resolve itself
into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of the
supply to be granted to his Majesty,
Mr. BERNAL said, that he would take that opportunity of
asking, the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland, what was the ob-
ject of the Committee for which the Orders of the Day informed
him that he intended to move, upon the distress unfortunately
now prevailing among 580,000 of our fellow subjects in Ireland ?
Mr. GOULBURN•replied, that the object of the Committee
was to enable the Government to afford immediate relief to the
suffering and distressed poor of Ireland. He was happy to
say that the result of the measures which the Government had
•already adopted, had been of the most consoling and satisfac-
tory nature. The accounts which he had that morning receiv-
ed from those parts of tie country which were most distress.
ed, were more satisfactory than he could have ventured to
• anticipate some days ago, and led him to believe that the sub-
scriptions of the benevolent, aided by the exertions of Govern-
ment, would carry the people of Ireland through all their dif-
ficulties--if notavithout suffering, at least with less • suffering
than had originally been expected.
Mr. D. BROWNE stated it as an extraordinary circuit].
:stance, that though the people of Ireland were starving, provi-
sions were never more abundant or more cheap. He did not
understand how this could be ; there must be some mystery or
exaggeration about it that he could not penetrate. Ile saw a
_monstrous export going from Ireland at the very moment that
its poPulation was starving.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD was surprised that his Hon. Friend
-(Mr. D. Browne) should come forward to state that the ac-
ceunts of the distress in Ireland were exaggerated. He con-
tended at some length that they were not so, and instanced se-
veral cases of distress with which the public is already acquaint.
ed. He was afraid, notwithstanding the sanguine anticipations
of his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for Ireland, that the
distress was still so great that-the funds of charity would be in-
effectual to relieve it.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that those who were Inca-
, pable of labour ought unquestionably to have whatever support
could be afforded them, and those who were capable of working
'ought toliave all possible means extended to them of earning a
subsistence. Ile stated this from a desire that it should not be
understood he was so callous to any adherence to principles of
political economy, as to permit them to contravene those feel-
logs which humanity had dictated for the provision of the peo-
ple, situate as Ireland now was.—( Hear.)
Mr. VILLIERS hoped that nothing would fall from any
' lion. Member calculated to throw a damp upOn the liberal con-
tributions now making for the sufferers in Ireland, and for which
cvery post allowed the ieevitable necessity.—(Hear.)
Mr. D. BROWNE explained.—Here the conversation
.dropped.
THE SCOTTISH MONUMENT.
Lord BINNING moved that the petition for a grant for the
National Monument of Scotland be referred 'to the Committee
of Supply.
Mr. HUME desired to know why some other opportunity
'could not be taken for propoSing such a grant ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXC-HEQUER replied, that
at naturally belonged to the business of a Committee of Supply.
Sir R. WILSON said, that the petition could not be re-
ferred to the• Committee, as it contained an erroneous state-
ment of the funds applicable to the building of churches.
Lord BINNING said, that the petition was correct in al-
luding to the. circumstance of a sum having been voted for
building churches in Scotland, although that sum had not
since been raised or appropriated. ,
Mr. BENNET objected altogether to the, mode taken by
the Noble Lord to introduce this business. It was true a sum
had been voted for building churches, but that was very dis-
tinct from any grant for a national monument in Scotland. A.
distinction ought certainly to be drawn between the one pur-
pose and the other, and an estimate of the difference of expense
'between the erection of a church and a monument ought to
precede the consideration of this grant.-a( Hear.!)
Sir. HUDSON GURNEY thought it preposterous to vote
100,0001. to put upon Calton-hill a meagre, poor, and miser-
able imitation of the Parthenon at Athens.—(Hear !)
Lord BINNING said, that the question was not now whit
'the style of the monument should be, but whether the Petition
should be referred to a Committee.
Sir R. WILSON said, it was very material to know the dif-
ference of expense between the Church and the imitation of the
Parthenon.
Mr. HUME said, that' he, should unquestionably oppose the
reference of the. Petition to a Committee, without further infor-
mation. This was not the time for a hasty appropriation of the
public money.
• Lord BINNING expressed his astonishment at the novel
• course which had been taken on the present occasion. Ilis mo-
tion was not for a grant of money without inquiry; but that
the petition be referred to the Committee. He had only now
to withdraw his motion, and let it stand as a notice for the next
supply day.
Sir./. MACKINTOSH observed, that the Noble Lord need
not be surprised at the desire merely to discuss his proposition.
ALTERATION IN THE CURRENCY.
On the question that the House do resolve itself into a Corn-
mitte of Supply,
Mr. WESTERN rose to call the attention of the House to
certain 'Resolutions which he had already prepared for their
tonsideration.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to order, and
begged to submit to the Hon. Member's own judgment whe-
ther the course he was about to pursue was not contrary to the
usage of Parliament.—(Hear!)—He did not mean to contro-
vert the lion. Member's right to introduce any motion without
notice; but to submit to him the impossibility of discussing his
-question in the absence of a single paper connected with so ex-
tensive and important a subject—one which no human being
was this night prepared to meet. The army extraordinaries
was the regular question expected for the night, and he trusted
the Hon. I'vlember would see the propriety of not interposing
under such circumstances, and would rather give notice for an
early day, when he could regularly introduce his Restolu-
tions.—( n ear !)
Mr. WESTERN said that he was most ready to facilitate
rather than retard the public , business. He knew that it was
usual td precede a motion by a notice, and conformably to that
-usage he had had his resolutions printed, and a formal notice
given a fortnight ago for a discussion upon them. On Wednes-
•du y last, however, (the day of his notice) there was no House.
Without supposing that influence was exerted to prevent a suf-
ifficierit.attendance of Members on that day, he might yet be

Terriiitted to say that it was -unreasonable, at this period of the
Session, to expect he would give another fortnight's notice an-
tecedent to the discussion upon his Resolutions. He saw no
open day earlier than the 16th, and, not meaning to pottpone the
question so long, he took the present, which lie deemed a pro-
per opportunity far introducing the subject. If the Noble
Marquis would yield him an early Order Day, suppose Mon,
day next, he should,abstain at the present moment from press-
ing his motion. .
The Marquis of LONDON4DERRY suggested Wednesday
next as a more convenient day. -
Mr. HUME said he had a motion on that day, which would
have precedence.
Mr. WILMOT consented to postpone his motion respecting
the trade of Canada, from Tuesday until Friday next ; and Mr.
Western's motion was fixed for Tuesday next.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee.
ARMY EXTRAORDINA RIES.

Mr. ARBUTHNOT said the first Vote to which he shotild
draw the attention of the Committee, was that which related
to the Army Extriordinaries. This Vote was originally con-
fined to a statement of the Bills drawn upon this country
by our establishment abroad ; but he had last Session pro-
mised that the accounts in future should be more detailed ;
and he trusted the Committee would be opinion that he had
now redeemed his pledge. The sum , actually expended last
year under this head was 1,050,0001. A vote of a million
only had been taken to meet it ; hut it was to be ob-
served that, when that vote was taken, ,there was a ba-
lance in hand applicable to this branch of the expenditure
of 170,0001. After some deductions, the "particulars of which
were given in the Estimates, it would be seen that there was a
balance now in hand of 100,0001. For the service of the pre-
sent year he should not have occasion to call for so large a
vote as that of the last Session, as he intended to move for only
700,0001. In the former votes were included a sum 0f200,0001.
for each year, for the service of the East India Company ;
though this was always repaid by the Company,! yet new ar-
rangements had been made, which rendered it unnecessary
any longer to call, in the first instance, for this vote on the
public credit: It followed, therefore, that the actual reduction in
this rear's vote was 100,0001. i • but when the difference of the
balance was taken into calculation, be was fairly entitled to
call it 170,0001. At present he should not enter into any de-
tailed explanation .as the account was before the Committee;
but he should be itappy to answer any question, and -togive
any explanation necessary for the satisfaction of the Committee.
The Right Hon, Member concluded by moving a Resolution
for 700,0001. for the Army Extraordinaries.
Mr. HUME admitted. that the estimate came before the
Committee in a ~very improved state ; but the circumstances
it disclosed shewed, 'in his opinion, that further improvement
was still practicable. The present vote ought to be for that
which could not come under any particular head of expense.
It was principally for the difference between the revenue and
the expenditure of the colonies, and therefore the particulars
of the revenue ought to be given. The house in this respect
had not its usual constitutional controul over the money which
it voted. The money was expended under the controul of the
Council; but this was not the proper mode of expending it;
he believed it was one which the House, when it voted the mo-
ney, never intended to sanction. ' At Malta and the Cape, for
instance, enormous establishments were kept up; anti these were
paid for by Bills drawn in sums sometimes of 100,0001.. each,
without any account (at least without any which came before
the House) of the items composing that sum. He should propose
the entire abolition of one branch of this enormous menet
he'meant the Colonial Agency. The Right Hon. Gentleman
who- held the office of Commissioner of Woods and Forests, held
an office of 1,2001. a-year, as Agent for Ceylon. The duties of
these Colonial Agents, as they appeared by the Returns on the
table, were very trifling ; one of them was to provide and send
out to,the colony such articles as were necessary for the public
service. This might be easily performed by the Commissariat.
These colonial agencies were useless offices ; he was determin-
ed to oppose their continuance, as it was *perfect mockery to
keep tip offices, the duties of which might be performed by
other departments. They led to multiplicity of accounts, and
to the accumulation of large balances in the hands of the pub-
lic officers, which was inconvenient and dangerous to the pub-
lic service. But, independent of this, the charges themselves
were, in his opinion, considerably too high. The lowest an-
pointinent, he believed, was 5001. a-year. If, however, all tfie
accounts were distinctly laid before the House, he should ob-
ject to many other appointments. lie should object, for in-
stance, to the appointment of eight inspectors of Militia for the
lonian islands, where, he understood, there was no militia to
inspect; the people having been disarmed by the Governor.
These inspectors were each paid 3831. a-year. The Noble
Marquis had stated, that every unnecessary expence had
been reduced ; and he (Mr. flume) should be much grati-
fied to hear him . state what was the necessity for keeping
up these offices. In the sarhe manner he would beg the atten-
tion of the Committee to the expences incurred at the Cape of
Good Hope. The allowance originally made to the Governor
was but 1,1001. ; now it was nominally 10,0001. a-year ; but in
fact it could not be taken at less than 25,0001. a-year, if the
large establishments allowed to the Governor were taken into
the calculation. Ile had a Colonial Secretary at 3,5001. a-year ;
another Secretary at 1,5001. a-year (who held other Offices be-
sides) and several subordinate Officers ; and all this in a Co-
lony, the revenue of which is not more than 116,0001. a-year.
Surely, if we paid the excess of expenditure, we ought to have
the particulars of the revenue. But in this Colony there was
an Auditor of 1,0001. a-year ; a Pest Captain at 5001., a Comp-
troller at 1,0001.; in short, the Establishment was as long as
a tailor's bill. The whole revenue was frittered away in al-
lowances of this description; nine or ten thousand pounds might
be saved in the expences at the Cape alene. At the Mau-
ritius the expences were almost as much as those at the
Cape ; and yet the revenue was but 164,0001. which, however,
was enough to meet the expences, if the Colony were well ar-
ranged. There was .considerable loss sustained from public
defaulters; an instance of which was to be found in this
very Colony in the case of Theodore Hooke, whose de-
falcation ought to be made good by Ministers, as they had
neglected their ditty in not taking security for the faithful
performance of his trust. There was at this colony the usual
expence of auditor and deputy, a paymaster at 1,6001. a-year,
an assistant at 5001. and clerks with proportionate salaries.—
The expellee, however, did not stop here; for there was a col-
lector of the inland revenue at 1,5001. a-year (with an allow-
ance of two and a half per cent. on the sums he collected,) a
civil engineer, with an assistant, &c. There had been much
clamour made about the reduction of a• few clerks, at small
salaries.; but this shewed a disposition to economise by trifles,
and to expend by whoksale. He recommended the Cominit-
tee to reduce the present vote by 100,0001., and leave Ministets
to effect the necessary reductions. The Honourable Member
then referred to the expence incurred for Jamaic,,, the Cape,
Gibraltar, Sierra Leone, and Heligoland, which, he contended,
were- on too large a scale. He then adverted to the expellee
incurred for Canada, which, he said, ought to maintain its own
Staff'. The expence for'the Staff was 10,4961., and 10,3921. for
the Commissariat. The circunistance of the Commissariat cost-
ing almost as much as the Staff was unprecedented. There was
a charge too, he observed, of 'no less Than 5,9001. for, postage.
He had lately seen some one from Berbice, who assured him
that-one half of the Staff might be dispensed with, and one-half
of the Commissariat was totally unnecessary. H e contended,th ere-
fore4 that if there were a real desire to economise the public
money, reductions would have been made in this quarter. He
was convinced that if the proper reductions were made, with
proper management, 500,0001. instead of 700,0001., would be,
quite enough for the Colonies. Having disposed of the Colo-
nies, he begged to direct the attention of the Right-Hon. Se-
cretary to the extravagant expenditure of public money in
Jersey and Guernsey. For those islands there' was a charge
in the Estimates of 61301. which certainly was too much.- He
maintained that the House ought to have regular and separate
Estimates for these Islands, with their Revenue fairly put
down. He should like to know from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer what was the meaning of the charge of 9001. for the
management of a Dutch Loan. .He did not know what we had
to do with taking on ourselves the payment of the interest
of this Loan, which he really believed was originally raised for
carrying on war against this country. The -Hon. Member
complained of the classification of the different items of expen-
diture comprised in these estimates. Many items that appeared
in them ought properly to have appeared in the ordinary esti,
mates ; and no doubt the object of placing them as they were
was that votes might be taken for the same charge in both the
ordinaries and extraordinaries. He wished to see the whole of
our West India Colonies placed upon a more liberal footing.—
If the British Constitution were fully and fairly administered
to them, they would be found to thrive more than at present,
and be better able to support themselves. He did not intend
to move at once for that reduction in the whole vote which lie
thought would be justifiable, but until lie knew if there wore
a disposition on the part of Honourable Members to support
him, he should content himself with moving to diminish the
vote to a small amount. The reduction he wished to make was
in the exorbitant salaries paid to Colonial Agents, whose duties
were few and unimportant; compared with what they received
for undertaking them. The rates to which he desired to reduce
the different Agents were aa' follow :-.;:The Agent for Ceylon,
1,2001., Cape of Gdocl Hope 6001., Malta 6001., the Miuritius
.5001., the lonian Islands 5001. This would make a deduction
from the original vote of nearly 60001. and he moved therefore,
as an amendment? that the vote be 694,0231. in place of
700,0001.

Mr. BARHAM wished to know what the Hon. Member
meant by placing some of the 'West India Colonies on a more
liberal footing. If he meant that these Colonies should take
greater share of expence on themselves, he begged to say that
they were in that state of depression as to be totally incapable
of supporting heavier burdens than those they had at present

to contend against,•and they had already. deelared so to his Ma-
jesty's Government.
.11.1 r. HUME said he adverted to the maintenance of Detne-
raita and Trinidad, which cost much money, which he contended
Would be better employed in being used towards the support
of the rest of the' West India Coloni(s He wished to see Her-
bice,• ,Demerara,: and Trinidad with the same government as
the other islands.
Mr. BARHAM could not see how the principles of the Bri-
tish Constitution, being extended to Trinidad according to the
lion. MeMber's motion, would put one farthing into the Trea-

sury of that island. -
Mr. WILMOT bespoke the indulgence of the House whilst
he male answer to some of the points adverted to by the Hon.
Member for Aberdeen 4 at the same time that he declared his
intention of abstaining from following him into. that excursion
upon Colonial policy which he could not have thought it possi-
ble to arise from a question of Army Estimates. Ile must also
say that he thought the Hon. Member could not have under-
stood the question before the Committee when he proposed an
amendment upon a subject in no way connected with it, which
he (Mr. Wilmot) maintained the subject of colonial agents was
not with a motion for Army.,Extraordinaries. So much he
would say with regard to the Hon. Member's views of colonial
policy, that the value of the Cape of Good Hope, the Mauri-
tius, and Ceylon, was to be estimated to a certain extent by
their political importance, and the actual amount of power
their possession conferred upon this country. To the Honour-
able Member, however, who left this consideration entirely out
of his calculation, reducing all, to a balance of expenditure
and loss, it was not possible to answer or argue against upon
equal terms. But upon mere commercial estimation, without
any attention to political importance or military power, he,
might perhaps be disposed to agree in the view taken by the
Honourable Member. With respect to the measure in which
the Hon. Member had analysed the accompts, if he said that
364,0001. was a dead weight upon this country for the colonies,
he shouid answer him by. shewing that he had committed a mis-
take in no less a proportion of that sum than 287,2001.—(Hear,
hear !)—To prove this he required nothing more than to point
out that the Hon. Member had arrayed the whole amount of
expenditure of the Colonies as a dead charge upon this coun-
try, making no allowance for the sums this country received
from those colonies. He, therefore, believed there would be
no hesitation in admitting that this was the fair, equitable
way of stating the question.--'-(Hear, hear !)—lf he estimated
these, he would find that they amounted to 287,2001. a sum
which the country would never have received without the pos-
session of the Colonies in question. So that they had furnished
so much of the money expended upon them, leaving the re-
mainder only chargeable as a dead weight—(Hear, hear !)
With respect to the amount of the. Colonial salaries inveighed
against by the Hon. Member, it was the declared intention of
his Majesty's Government to send out Commissioners of In-
quiry to the Mauritius, 'Ceylon, and other parts ; ,and in the
meantime he thought they were justified in waiting the result,
instead of acting upon the exclamations of the Hon. Member
as to this and that charge and item. But it must be taken into
account that persons could not be found to go out to these places
without adequate remuneration. The Hon. Iliember's notion
of disposing of responsible appointments and dudes something
in the way of a Dutch auction,' reminded him of a man that
. he had himself heard going about. during the riots at Stock-
port, declaring that he knew a man who was ready to take the
place of Chancellor of the Exchequer for no more than half-
, a-guinea week.—(A laugh.)—He must say that be was of opi-
nion with the Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Barham)
that the extension of the British Constitution to Berbice 'or
Trinidad would have no talismanic effect upon the treasuries of
those places expected by -the Hon. Member. He hoped to see
the whole of the British colonies in the course of time assimi-
lated to Great Britain in government as well as manners and
principles ; but it must be a work of time. He must say, that
I he thought much of that eonbiny which the Hon. Member for
Aberdeen thouht possible would, if attempted, be found in-
compatible with the maintenance of our colonies in that state
of power and dignity necessary to their utility as. British pos-
sessions. If the Honourable Member would meet him upon
that ground, he should be ready to answer him ; but he must
take exceptien to the nature of the amendment moved upon a
motion which had nothing in common with the amendment ;
and which he was sure the House would not sanction.—(Hear,
hear !)—With regard to the colonial agents, he begged leave to
say, that, notwithstanding the Hon. Member's notions on the
subject, there was not a more useful or important class of in-
dividuals.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, that after the able answer which
had been given .by his lion. Friend, he would not trespass on
the time of the House; but he could not forbear from advert-
ing to the misrepresentations of the Honourable Member for
Aberdeen, of what had fallen from his HonOurable Friend
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on his introducing the Budget
to the notice of the House. Ile was enabled to state, from
conversations which he had had with him before lie had enter-
ed the House, and since, that he never meant to say that
the Estimates of the present year were to suffer no reduction
in ensuing years. On the contrary, it was certain that reduc-
tions would be made next year.—(Hear, hear !)—And his
Right Hon. Friend had merely taken the estimates of the pre-
sent year only as data for his calculations. lie assured the
'Committee that not one shilling had been paid to the Commis-
sariat which had not been voted by the House. IVith regard
to Canada, he assured the Bon. Member, that the stations there
were extensive, and that works were in progress, upon &plan
firmed ever since the peace, to render the whole Canadian fron-
tier impregnable, and easy to be defended, which would create
a considerable saving when finished, although at present they
might be considered expensive.
Colonel DAVIES thought that whatever might be the poli-
tical importance of our Colonies, it could not justify the unne-
cessary expence of one shilling. He should certainly give his
cordial support to his Hon. Friend's amendment.

Sir R. 'WILSON said, that if they were to judge of the value
of the lonian Islands from their political importance,•heshould
say that we had gained a loss--that they were the worst acquisi-
tion we had ever made, and if we did not soon change our po-
sition in that quarter, we should find it the sink of our wealth,
and the grave of our army.
Mr. (..401.3.8URN said ,he should always be ready to enter
into a fair discussion relative to the lonian Islands ; but he
could rot, upon a question of this kind, be led away by any
such discussion.

Mr. G. BENNET said he had listened with considerable
attention to the speech of his Honourable Friend (Mr. flume),,
and the reply which had been given to it, and he confessed,
he was unable to discover any just grounds upon which these
officers should be continued. He should like exceedingly to know
the full expence of the different establishments of clerks who
were engaged under-these agents, the quantity of pens, ink, and
paper they consumed, and the duties they had to perform. When
a Right Hon. Gentleman, not now in his place (Mr. Canning),
came down to that House and made his flourishing speech on
the duties of the Board of Control, he stated that all the la-
borious duties of the affair of India devolved upon the
secretary ; he should like then to know, what portion of.
time this same secretary could devote to the management
of the affairs bf the Cape, for which he received a salary of
6001: a year. If all these offices were measured according to
the effective service 'which they performed, it would he found
that their salaries were much too large. The Hon. Gentleman

then adverted to the abuses which were practised in these Co-
lonies. He could mention one Governor of the Mauritius who
could point out strong reasons for a reform of the vile practices
which were carried on. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
knew well to whom he had alluded, for he was the person who
detected Mr. Theodore Hook, the gentleman who had robbed
the public of 8 or 9,0001.

Mr. GOULBURN protested against the course which the
Hon. Gentleman had pursued. Ile never could admit that
there was any man in the country not worth defending, and
while he had a voice, and the power to raise it, he should
never sit by and hear the character of any man, whether in
the Colonies, in Ireland, or Great Britain, attacked, without
coming forward to give him that protection to which he was
entitled.

Mr. HUSKISSON did not expect that the management of
the office which he so unworthily filled could form any piirt of
the discussion on the Army Extraordinaries. It was always
painful to him to speak of himself, but he could tell that
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) that the inhabitants of Ceylon
had expressed, in the strongest terms, their approbation of
some trifling services which he had occasion to render them.
He inentioned this circumstance for the purpose of shewitig
the feeling they entertained of the necessity of maintaining
some connexion between the local government there and the
government of this country. He was somewhat surprised that
the Hon. Gentleman, who had so long been in India, and was
now enjoying the fruits of his labours, should return to Europe
,and animadvert upon all the institutions of the country, ex-
cept that under which lie raised all his independence and for-
tune.

Mr. T. COURTENAY said, if the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Bennet) supposed that he (Mr. C.) had not active duties to
perform, he laboured under a very great mistake. He could
shew letters which he had received from Cape, which
stated tlit they attributed a great share of their happiness to
his exertions. No man had more laborious duties to perform,
and unfortunately 'such were his circumstances and weight of
business, that he was compelled to devote to the duties of his
station those periods which other official men spent in dissipa-
tion and pleasure.—(A laugh).

Mr. THOMAS WILSON defended the necessity of main-
taining a close connection between these Colonies and the Go-
vernment at home. _ _ _

said, he under Stood that the revenues of'
these Colonies could, if properly managed, be made not only

,to defray the expence of maintaining them, but a surplus would
be returned back to this country.,
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that no answer had been given to
the inquiriessbf his Hon. Friend, The expences of the agent
and establishment of clerks were, he presumed, paid out of the
revenues of the Colonies.—(" No," from the opposite side.)—
Oh ! then they are not.—(" No," repeated.)-011! then they
are.—(" No, no," from the opposite side.)—Oh ! then, they
are and they are nt;:..—(Mtich laughter.)—But- he conceived
in whatever way they were disposed of, it was the duty of these
official Gentlemen to -give some explanation. Now, with
respect to the agents of these Colonies in this country,
he had no doubt their salaries were not overpaid, but
that they were worth the money. He understood they
acted in the capacity of a friend at Court, and they were the
persons to interfere with the Government on behalf of the Co-
lonies, and he thought, the Colonies had been most judicious
in their selection of officers to perform the great work of so-
licitation.
Mr. HUME stated, that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Huskisson) was greatly 'mistaken, if lie supposed that the esta-
blishments in India paid their servants as liberally as the
public servants in this country were remunerated. He (Mr.
Hume) had served much longer than either the Right Hon.
Gentleman or the Irish Secretary (Mr. Goulburn), and he did
not receive one shilling pension.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the Committee
divided, when there appeared for the Amendment--
Ayes - - - 55
Noes - - - - 82

Majority . —27
The Estimate was consequently agreed to.
Mr. A'RBUTHNOT then proposed a vote of 300,0001. for
the ordinary charges of the Civil List.
Mr. BENNET objected to bringing on the discussion on
that head of Service at so late an hour.
Mr. HUME said his objection would apply to the expence
of Ambassadors. •
Mr. ARBUTIINOT, unwilling to press the discussion at
that hour, withdrew the estimate.
29,4601. 13s. was then voted to make good the grants for the
Service of the year 1821.
The sum of 19,000 was then proposed for the pensions, to
Toulonese and Corsican Emigrants, Dutch Officers and others,
who from special services have a claim on his Majesty's bene-
volence.
Colonel DAVIES objected to this estimate, on the ground
that the Emigrants were entitled to support from the House of
Bourbon, for which they had fought and lost their all at
Toulon in 1793. It was most extraordinary that they did not
look to the Bourbons for support. He wished to know on
what pretence General Dumourier was a pensioner on this
country. It was known that that General gave himself up to
General Mack for the purpose of restoring the Bourbons to
the throne. The Knights of Malta, also, had no claim oa this
country. The Honourable Gentleman moved to reduce the
estimate to 4,9391.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed the
amendment. The Toulonese Gentlemen who received allow-
ances were paid for services performed in the British Navy,
and not the King of France. They'assisted in bringing away
the Fleet from Toulon, and in the capitulation they were to have
half-pay in our service. With respect to the veteran Dumou-
rier, who was past the age of 80 years, he was sure the House
would not deprive him of an allowance he had received during
the many years he had been under the protection of this coun-
try. The Knights of Malta were clearly entitled to the allow-
ance they received.
Mr. HUIIIE supported the amendment.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT said at the time the Bourbons were
restored, every one of the emigrants in this country who had
been in the service of the Royal Family of France were pro-
vided for by the French Government.
Col. DAVIES expressed himself satisfied with the explana-
tions he had received, and withdrew his amendment. The es-
timate was then voted.
The sum of 21831. was voted for printing 1750 copies of the
76 volumes of the Journals of the House of Commons.
The sum of 5,0001. was voted for the expences of the Institu-
tion, called the Refuge for the Destitute.
25,0001. was proposed for the Caledonian Canal.
After some objection from Mr. HUME, the CHANCELLOR
of the EXCHEQUER said this sum would be sufficient to open
the canal from sea to sea.
Mr. BROUGHAM suggested that an estimate should be
made, of what was to be done, before this 25,0001. was ex-
pended. If the steam-boats had not been discovered, no bene-
fit would have been derived from the undertaking.
Mr. W. SMITH said he should be sorry to see the under-
taking stop for the proposed sum.
The item was then granted.
15,0001. was voted for the works iri Donaghadee Harbour.
50001. for Portpatrick Harbour.
12,0001. for Holyhead Harbour.
1,0001. for outstanding demands and the purchase of houses
for the improvement of Westminster.
2,7001. for the expence of new Courts for the Commissioners
of Bankrupts.
Mr. BROUGHAM suggested the necessity of providing for
the Court of King's Bench in Westminster Hall. It was im-
possible, he said, not to see
,the great inconvenience which the
Suitors, and Practitioners of that Court had to endure.
He did not wish to have the old bulkheads fitted up in West-
- .
minster Hall, but certainly some arrangement ought to be made
until the intended Courts could be erected. The Court of
Chancery had been separated two years from the Courts of
Common Law, which was also a great inconvenience to practi-
tioners.
The CIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he was
aware, othe great inconvenience to which the Hon. and
Learned'illember alluded, and he had endeavoured to provide
a remedy, but had not been able to succeed. The old Courts•
could not be put together without much expence. The old
materials were not fit to use. The Right lion. Gent. said he
would make further inquiry respecting it. •
The above items having been voted, the House resumed, and
the Report was ordered to be received on Monday.
Upon the motion of Mr. Secretary PEEL, the Report of the
Alien Bill was postponed to Wednesday next.
The Prison Laws Regulation Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House Adjourned at Two o'CLocE to Monday.