The Sun.
London, England, 1825-04-26 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, Arttu:2s.
A copy of a deed fbi regulating' the Equitable. Loan. Cam-
pang was presented at the bar, and ordered, on the motion of
Lord LAUDERDALE, to. be printed. • .

CORN LAWS. • - • .
Marquis CAMDEN presented two petitions tram certain
places in. Kent, against any alteration in the Corn Laws. •
The Earl of DERBY presented petitions from Manchester
and Rochdale, to tbe same effect.
Lord SUFFIELD presented a petition to the same erect
from a place in the county of Norfolk, in doing which the Noble
Lord observed, that the question was one in which lie had so
strong a personal interest, that he
.could not well trust himself
istformingan opinion upon it, and still less in making it a sub-
ject of his vote.
The Earl of LAUbERDALE took the present opportunity
of asking the Noble Earl opposite whether it was the intentionof his Majesty's Government to propose any alteration in the
Corn Laws during this Session ? It was net his wish to. enter
into any premature discussion on the. shbjecte but he thought
it would- be desirable that their Lordships should be infortned
of the views of his Majesty's Ministers on this important ques-
tion. If any doubt were left on the subject, their Lordships
would have their table covered with petitions.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL could have no objection to giv-
ing the Noble Lord •the. satisfaction he -desired, by distinctly
answering his question, in the negative; but at the same tithe
he felt it to be inconsistent with his sense of • duty, to do so,
without troubling their tordsltips with a few wOrds of explain Their Lordships must recollect, that the last time this
subject was under the Parliament was in 1822.
The system adopted in 1815 was, however,-continued, though
it was generally agreed:that:that system ought not to be adhered
tOs. hutqthat some alterations should be made. The Committee
appointd in• 1822, in their report, recon-nnended farther alters-
dons,. which, however, had; not been , made. This was the
state in .-which the question now stood. In reply to the Noble
Lord, hefeertainly could, not object to state in public .what he
often had dechtred.in- prisiate—hamely, that some alteration in
the present state, of the Conk Laws was, in his opinion', neees.
; sary
•.an4;l yet he was net., prepared to go into the question
during the present'Session but hoped that it would be found
Convenient for their 'Lordstiipso.,Wtoke it up in the course of the
Aezt;,Session,: sand-to enter:inSo4e,:cOnSideration of it in, all its
bearings,lie..waaperfectly sensiblethat if any -uncertainty as to
what might he dune this Sessionwere to be allowed to continue,
their Lordships would have their table covered with petitions on
the subject, and, c,potitions Coneeived.in -a very different sense.
Some Mons a4arge and respectable body of the population,
would be in favour of the present law ;..others, from another
artenSiv#.4tB4•AMOtetftble part, would pray for an alteration.—
Theit.l.AnWplamost not conceal from themselves this truth, .
that though the classes connected with land viewed the Corn
Laws in a di fforent light front.those_connected with. trade, the
true interse4a-a: all classes were on this. question really the
same. One class, hewever, looking to immediate interest, 'la..
;Is: naturally desired to raise the price. of the ammo-
turally iriatied.tozentayfe' ell restrictions on importation, while
the other
dity it produced. Ile had endeavoured. to do. his dory between
-1414:c0.1113iclinglOterests. There Wei, •in his opinioni.a diffi.
'chit), in this question which he did not think hadievcr.yet beet)
'fairly considered. No man conlithernore. desirous than be was
to see the trade of the'cOuntry placed on the most liberal foot..
• ing ; but when.) ommercial princTiolve.l'4ll).l44tSAll))
ohms.;
cles arose which were not. easily overcome. In all other kinds
Of manufacture,' if a fixed pi-o(4'mA; :duty were imposed, it
;Would be easy-to abide-by it. Witsitever-sulk4 he the state of
the home supply ave. particular. titrie'i., things -would at length
come round, and ilia utanufacture,wonld find its.level.;.'But it
Was otsti;stianfthpkt to com,.bsehtstifluattieverequituble.a
rate the duty migheihrlived,ristilk-fieirieds and. .seasons might
occur in which no protecting duty whatever could be atlheretl`-
td. ,• Ina time of greit SeartWilriould not be said to a stitrii- -
ing population that they should pad any thing in addition to
'tlfe natural price of.lorn. 7Tlelthretv out these observations
merely to .Sheratttliiit. 414 ere was -a great difficulty-belonging to
'this questioar-but.he was perfectly satisfied that their Lord-.
ships must preeeedatti,its-consideration with the vieiv'ef making
Some alteration in, ,Abe present system. This,' he thought,
would appear to be calledfOr on several grounds. The price
ofcornin this country was now nearly 'double what it was in
MS, when -the present system was fixed- The argument used
in making thavarrangemeht was, that it was necessary to raise
the price, in order to secure a reasonable profit on cultivation.
',Etas appeared to-be, by no means necessary now, with fOs. tOr
the iniportitieri priee.."‘He felt, htiwever, that he should not
be rightly .dischargitlg- his duty if lieszentured to give any opi-
nion_ as to what ought to be the ditty or import price, .Next
Sessiort:oppnrtwroly would be affoided their Lordships for a.full
consideration of thk subject; and in the mean tittle he should
only:Stati iiliat.saPpeared to him to be the different principles
on which their Lordships world have to decide. lie had stated
that iltO msetWa3ige.m could...not .be maintained,--that.was to
say, with respect to iinpoitation .consequence of the
effect which it had oti. value of labottr. Their ;Lordships
would, "therefore; 1)44 to- proceed. on one of three principles.
Wt. They might, aiier the.lmnortation price and in other
respects retain the 'system. N. They might 'alter the exist-
ing system, altogether,- artd etiopting the reconnuendation of
the Coinmittee of 1822, irtipose• protecting duties with a
maximum, beyond which importation. should' be perfectly
free, and a miniwizieri, Under which. no AmPortatiou should
be allowed. 3d. A. general:Protecting duty might be fixed,
getting -rid of -the preiept. system. of averages. Either of
these latter-plana would 1,-.9rn) ascomplete alteration hi the, pte:..,
sent state of the Corn Laws rblit the last mode could not be
resorted tO Without placing somewhere a discretionary power to
remove the'duty-altogether lir it time ofscarcity. illtich diffi-
culty would be found- in establishing. asnaximuni or minimum
along- with a fixed
.protecting duty.
-If, therefore, a fixed.duty
• should be rejected 4. -their Lordships. would have the option,
• either of adheringtti the present system with an alteration of
thte.,import-,Priee, orestablhaiing a system of protecting ditties
with a nici.bn.ium and milqvaim;- or else of taking a maximom
and Wiiitiinurn without enyprotecting duty. Ile knew not whe-
ther -he- had Made but lie thought it right.
atic larthpeeirrtio of presents, consideration
m
to lay before the House the different systems which it was likely
,their-Lordships would have te'discuss. He must now.again
Ytlid not now repeat, that it was net-his intention to proposean
alteration in
,
the Corn-Laws duringthe present Session. He
c,cieyrastuen.
mholawhieverso;anburt,btle broughtmtoneP r
underu
—he meant' the question relating to the b
antl ed corn which had
been and still was-in warehouses. Th quesn•
at on had already
undergOne some alteration With respect to Cannitit 'corn. IVith
regard to -the other bonded cern, those members of the landed
interest whom he, had consulted on the subject were favourable
to the cOriteriaplated alteration. As to the general •
uestion, he • certainly could not think it right to enter on its
consideration at
this late period of the Session.; but, aware that it must in tide
time Come under consideration, he was anxious t 'put th - Hotist in pessesSion of hii.views and feelings on theesubjeit. e
The
the
of L NSDOWN had it 'petition f -•• nt
hem the .city Of •Lendo'n, praying- for a revision .°}P•r"e
of t Le -(:urn
Laivs, which lie should :submit to their Lordships t
u-morru
He concurred in much of whailnut fallen from the Noble Earl
opposite; -at-die same time he must obserys that the result
of many deliberate and ;serious . reflections on this -subject
had-brought him to thecOnclusiop that it would be ultine tt-1 impossibk' for Parliament to continue a, system of. .. Y
corn -laWs. ft *would therefore be-the duty of
parliament
look forWard.to the doing away of the. system alto's. itr.rtentitioe
agreed with.the Earl as to.the difficulty y
which would 'not be
_fiiiind'very inconvenient in periaoZtl.
liti scarcity or anclabee; ,bUt at the same thne, he regardedelt
a plan as
.the best calculated to: preveot scarcity.,••Nirhik en_
tertaining this opinion as .t.O a fixed duty; he must confess' that
lie was far from regarding 'Parliament to be now hi a situation
to determine- What 'that.(lntY should be. They must first de-
termine the average price which would afford, a sufficient,- ua:.
rantee to thelyitiSh cultitiator„ and next.
:average .state of
prooluctiverieSs.on 06 continent. Ile was sureltliat Most erro-
neous notiohs"keyailed to the
iweiage COs t • grid
1 .1) • of
agiieultUra;Srpflpc'e pnithe centinent, an
chat there was great
eteoiiii'ng what. was , likely to be.,, in such n
enable their Lititiships accurately to .tia f
way as to . •, . a .rate o
duty. id coining to a uetermints ',ono mouitt b their L
onciliaie all tl e ort -
ships' duty,to.endeavour ,
at,on6ie interests, in,
the.
country; . and to 'take' care .that should-not incline
too much to the une.s.4l6.9lAb!iii-_9
Ci
punufre4ohjeet should
-
be, to r•arriv`e., at. -kon*Pfinic:
iathgr fc,r,-, bail :as.
thepresent system was, lie wbultl
still to "3v4t" an.its
faults than change it for one Ai .fluctuation. It was
'ee were fixed, the m f • • obvious that if too high a pis
_a. anit :inuring
interest would have just reason to comPl in of the dearness of
price of every kind of labour,
provisions, which must raise the

fit

If the price were fixed-toe low, the landed3interest would be
injured, and with, it; as recent events he 'mat-strikingly
proved, every. Other interest in the country .wgtild be seriously
affected. -Their Lordships Would then be asSailed with a cla-
mour, and Parliament :Wohid be again compelled toraise the
price. On these grounds he. thought he could not too strongly
impress- on their Lordships-the necessity of considering this
important subject in all its bearings ; -and, in their revision of
the present system, of looking- to the establishment', of a per-
manent law, which would be-capable of conciliating tlO inte-
rests Dial! the different classeS of the-empire. •
The Earl of LAUDERDALE thanked the Noble Earl for
the exposure lie had given •of his vieivs on the Corn Lads. , It
was nut his intention. then to deliver any opinion as to any par-
ticular plan Which• it might be proper for Parliament to adopt,
but lie must remind their Lordships, that while they were con-
sidering the subject, speculation would be at work. It was
therefore necessary to delay their determination as little as
.pos-
sible, and, to make the new system one of -more certainty than
the present. A • fixed and permanent arrangement ought to. be
, adopted for a time of peace. The Noble Earl had stated, that
under the present system, corn was now in this country tv'iCe
the price it sold lot on the' continent; - but he should recollect,
'F. that when the last arrangement was tirade, the agriculturists
were told that IlOs. was to be the minimum.. Their complaint,
however, was, that the price had never reached BOs. However,
during the existence of the arrangement, .bread had never been
at an unreasonable price. if it were intended to come at last to
a_permanent-arrangement, he did not conceive that. -the task
could be accomplished without a most laborious, in.q.uiry, not
only into the state of agriculture in this country, but into its
relative situation in the restolEurope. When their Lordships
considered that the present system, under various modifications,
was the Same which had endured for more than a century, they
could not be too cautious in departing entirely from it. _lle •
did not say. tha; it was perfect; but it was one under.Whicli the
'agriculture of this country had tongflourished. On this ground,
lie dreaded-alteration: He dreaded it, becauSe, if any change
was to be made, it ought to be to a permanent system,_ which
Was 'difficult ; and b•ecause the situation of the landed interest
was different from that of any other. Capital was embarked on
land tinder leases of 21-years, and the value of that capital
'would be instantly affixted by any alteration of the law. 411
he should farther say at present-was; that he hoped the inquiry
would be carefully conducted, and that the discuSsion would be
deliberate. •

The Earl of LIVERPOOL wished to make One observation.
more in consequence of what had fallen friun the'Noble Lords
'opposite.
_He ,fully agreed with them in the importance of a
carefill investigation, and. that if a change 'of system were Made,
it should be one of as permanent A nature as possible. . Rut it'
they were to look-to the price of grain in this country and abroad,•
they would find that .-nothing could be of A more varaying na-
ture. To be convinced of this, they had only to refer to the
prices of the last 30-years, The different rate of taxation in
this and other .• corintrieallecessarily caused a great difference of
price, and rendered:it difficult to come to a decision on the.ques-,
tiori of duty..' The variation in the weight of the taxation, too,-
ooth 70 to 30 millions, was a cause of fluctuation. Prussia; Po-
, land, and-other countries, 'from which foreign corn was usually
imported, were ail poor; hut-as they increased in wealth and civi-
lization, their power of suppiying.us would become less. These
were. all circumstances homile to that permanency which was so
.desirable• -Their; I,ordships would, have. to consider„whether
they would adhere to;the present- system, or adopt one-of pro-
, tecting or. fixed,ditti4s ; but, in whatever •way' they Might pro-
-Ceed, it appeared to 'him that they never could eXpect to ob-
tain- that certahtty which would enable them to fix art un-
alterable prig. •

,Ord KING -wished. a determination to be come to on this
subject .as speedily as-posiible ; for, in consequence Of the.agi,
tation of. the'question, ,bargains between individuals M b ust at.
; a stand.tra. a ,settlenient took :place. He :'was, , however, glad
that ihe Noble Lord opposite was to call the attention of rat-
.liament to the subject, anti he hoped . an UnderStariding
would be brought about between .the landed interest and the
mamtfacturers.- Wheat in some of, the Continental ports was
but if the market was opened in this country it would
rapidly-rise-Terhaps to (Xs: or Os. ;. but, Whatever might be
the r reseili "price, great difficulty. would be experienced in
teuncliti~T on -it 'a fined rate for importation. One great incon-
venience of a high rate was, that when the ports were suddenly
thrown open, an immense importation took place. Some mea-
sure, he thought, ought to be adopted to restrain the excessive_
importation which took place in such cases. •
The Earl of ROSSLYN hoped -that nothing would be done
in this matter without a complete inquiry, and having the.
_whole subject sifted.to the bottom. The burden of proving the
necessity of change lay upon those who proposed to alter the
present system. As the change would • affect the state of every
contract throughout the country, the intended investigation Was
-One which would require great caution and delicacy.
of the proposed investigation, •.presented
.thne
Lord. CALTHORPE, after expressing his opinion in favour
Chamber of Commerce of Birmingham, praypientbirtirlor .fr°r revision
of the Corn Laws. •

• The Earl of DARNLEY was glad_ to hear that this impor-
tant subject was to be inquired into. He-always regarded the
landed -inal commercial classes of the country as • having one
common interest. Of this- he 'was 'Certain, 'that if the landed
interest: was injured by any change in the Corn Laws, the Bit-
tish manufacturers would lose, their' best customers. t- itp:.
proved of the plan.of coming to nO decision until next session.
CATHOLIC QUESTION.
• Petitions against the Catholic-Claims were presented by Lord
E o L LE, from St. Stephen's, Exeter; by the Bishop of Ex ET ER,
from Lewes; by the Earl of LIVERPOOL; from Paisley--; ,by.
Earl GROSVEN OR, from Chester; by the Mike of ItuT t. AN n,
from the parish of St. Margaret, Leicester, and, from the
Borough of Grantham and its vicinity ; by the Earl of Mutt-
'WOOD, from Halifax. '

F ETITJON FROM, THE DEAN AND CHAPTER OF ST..

.GEORGE, WINDSOR:

Ilis Royal flightless the Duke, of YORK.:-1 liold in tny
hand a petition from the Dean and Cbaliter. of the Collegiate.
Church of St. George, Windsor, rprayingthat no further con-
cessions may be made to the'ROman Catholics, 1 an: sure that •
any representation from so learned, and respectable a body:will,
be received with the attenfain which it deserves ; and therefore
I should •not havetroubled youti,ortiships with any. observations
in aupport of it it I- did not feel that this was an occasion on
which any man • may well be permitted to
.address your:
Lordships. I do this more readily on the present
,eceasion,
'because, feeling that I have not the habit of taking .part in
vonr discussions, . I will not ' Interrupt the "prog-ress of the
'ilehte on the Bill to which the_ petitioners, refer, if it
should came into the House. It is now 25'year s since this meth-
sure was first frought into discitssion,,,L cannot forget witti What
events that discussion was at that time connected..
~lt was con-
nect.,:d with the most serious illness acne now Fro more; it.was
connected also with the tempciary- removal'of uncut the ablest,.
wisest, acid himestest ministers that this country. ever
.had.,
J'rom that time, when I gave my first v,ote,en 'ibis question, to..
the present, I have never seen any reasoll.to regret or, to 'barge
the line which I then took. I have every year,seeti more yea- ,
'
'ton :to be satisfied with my decision. \Viten the tines:tit:ln
conies regularly' before your I:ordships, it will be dinusied
nine!, more fully and ably than I can do it : but there pre two
Or thriesttlijgcts on which I ant anxious to touch : one is, that
you platz the Church of-England in a situation i.it which no
other church in the world is placed: the Human Catholic will
, t
,nd yet he requires you to allow him
ointer-
not alai the Church of England or Parliament to interfere
with li;:r church
and to legislate fe,y it. There iS'antither
which I cannot, Juiwever, -hell'
fere,witti unit church,
subject, still more delicate, on
sayiru, a few woods, I speak (1 beg tobt understood) anry as
an inlvichial : I desire not to be understood „,,
speaking, for
any body else : but, consider, my Lords, the situat
km in Which
yon .place the Sovereign. By the coronatio a
i n oathat the..80.e.,
reign is bound to maintain the church. establish I ,
ti—, • oer uoc:
trine; discipline,:and 'rights inviolate. : 'Alll'4(4. ef, . Par' lament
May rel ease fittiire Svereigns and oilier men from tiiii.
,uxhi
or from any other oaoth to b,c taltm ; - but euzi it release, an incti-
viduar who hiti already taken it ? -I speak, / repeat it.iiatn.,
as an individual.;- but I entreat the
.11 (lose to eensider: the shoo-.
'lion 'in whielf,the Sovereign is thus placed. I. feel very strongly
on this whole subject : I cannot forget the deep interest whidi
was taken upon it by one now no ,more : and the longcan4 un-
happy illness in which,— E.t.IFI' kris Royal tiittwess
wa,,ri_..,
sibly, affected.] • I - have been brought
.1,1). trp,l,ll Triy -, early .
years in these principles.; and from, the tithe 4'ol 1 Jvg4lll.
tp
for myself,
reason . ~
I have entertainV4 .their frorn cant' * .
which I may be u. ion
and in every ',situation in
h 1 le Ood !—(43tl( Cheering ) n-
tain them, ao• e p n .
d' 1.11-' ' / • • -
' The petition -was read.;- and lat on e table. „.
~ , , . : , .
The Earl of HARROWPY presented a petition in.favou;
of' the Catholic Claims from the Roman Catholics of the mid
land Counties.
Catholic Claim
Farther petitions against the 3 Were presented

Pli.ict StVEN.Prae,r,,,

by the Bishop of LrNcoLivi from-a Deahery.in .the county of
Bucks ; by the 'Bishop of BAT u us and the. Bistiop
of CfrESTXR, from several other pliCeA, the .names of
were not heard; and by the Duke of BEAUF6mt-, frJui stveral
parishes in the city of Bristol.—Ailjourned.

•
I-101NR OF COMMONS,
Sir ItiVrtsON.Prelented a petition from artairritrd ivid4Als
confined in the Borough Perurpter against the Southwark Ga[;l
Bil4---Ordered -to lie on the t Ott,:
• Mr. Lizin,SAY -Presented a igtii`iloi-'.,!`put to T iltagistrates and
Traders of the Royal Burgh of Forfar, 'ikrtving hus-.Alajesty's
Ministers would take into their consideration the duties,on the
raw materials used in the Manufacture-of len.—Ordered to
lie on the table.
• COUNTY -COURTS' BILL.
A petition was presented from I.trewsbcry in favour the
County:Courts' Biil.—Ordered to lie ofiAlto table.:
• ELECTIVE FRANCIUSE IN IREI;AND.
31. r. LITTLETON said, he rose forthe purpose of postpor.-
ing the second reading of the-Elective Franchise Bill, w tact.
s,;tod for that night. Some alterations had been suggested te•
hip, which he thought it would be expedient to introduce into
the Bill. 'Phis he could not do in sufficient time to bring 07:
the subject at present. To-morroW, however,.he should* be
ready to 'bring the Bill with the proposed alterations, ti:dtr
the consideraiion of the House. A Noble. Lord,. whose tee --
thin stood for to-morrow, had consented to postpone it to a to-/
tore day.
ir. PLUNKETT said his- Hon. Friend (Mr. Littleton)
had shewn him the alterations he proposed to make, and it ap-
peared to him that they would be en improvement. They would,
Obviate objections that existed in some quarters against the
Bill in its present shape. This being the case, .it would be
desirable• to put'off the motion till to-morrow. He wished to
suggest; at the: ame time, the propriety of postponing Asti
Commitee-on the other Bill till to-morrow, as it was the it,
pression on the minds of many Honourable Gentlemen, 'Olaf'
the two. measures' were to go together, and some had supported
that for' the relief of the Roman Catholics on this understai:d-
ing. He'. hoped the Honourahle Baronet (Sir Francis Bur-
dett)
.would have no objection to postpone the Committee til-
to-thorrow.' •
Mr. DAWSON said, if the alterations were important, he.
wished his Hon: Friend (Mr.- Littleton) would State- what tbey
were. They mightliave the effect of lessening the opposition
to the Measure.. , .

• 'Mr. GRATTAN said, it might be convenient for the House-
to know what,thd nature of the alterations were: .. •
Mr. LITTLETO.N said, he could not at present state them-
precisely. The principal object; *however, would be to pre-:
serve the existing interests. •
The motion was Postponed till to-titorro. _ : •
• CATHOLIC RELIEF RILL.
Sir F. BUR DEVI! said,. that the' great tnedsure appeared to
him of so much importance ha would go great, length's to en,
mire its success. o' had n objection therefore to postpone the
Committee on the Catholic Bill ••till td4norrow.
Bart: made a few observations which were inaudible in that part,
of the galkry where the sat. . • ' • -
The Committee was accordingly postponed:
ASHURST presented-a
,petition frani a parish in thc
County of Oxford, the nate of WI I we could not "against.
the Catholic Relief Bill.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. H. MAXWELL said, he held in his hand a.petitiot:
-front the Inhabitants bf Belturber, in the County. of Carat,.
against any' further concession to the Roman Catholics. The
feelings of every Protestant hr the County were_oastile to the •
measure, .He cordlalty concurred in the -sentiruefita _of the pet
'tionerS, and deprecated Jesuit establishments. It Was tirtuitt
necessary to'hanish thelesuit from every country in which thief
existed. Even Roman Catholic cotintries-, knoiving their in-
trigues, and dangerdusprinciples, petition-ed the Pope to sup.
•
press`theni.-Ordered:to be printed.. '
Mr. CARTWRIGHT presented a similar, petition from
Daintree, -• ' . •
• • -DISSE NTE RS.
_ _

The further consideration' of the report of the' Disseritc-rs•
31,trridge Bill was, poslponed till to-ntorroW. •
• COMBINATION LAWS. • .•
Mr.-110BHOUSE" said, he held in -his,. liand,,a petition
from the Woollen Wearers of Rochdale. It prayed that fjp,
alteration should be made In the Act passed last.Seasion for re-
pealing the Chinhination LAWS. Ile hoped Ministers would nOt-
attempt to retrace their steps, withmit paying the greatest atten—
tidn.to every application that might be made on this subject.
He tras-sUrprtsed to hear the President of
,The Board of Trdde
-Hustissoxi) disclaim the Act of last SeSsion... The Right
Hon. Gentleman wits completely a party .to the repeal of these
laws.—The petition was ordered to be printed. • •
' Lord STANLEY presented a petition from, certain woollen-
weaver&of Rochdale.Arraying that' the Act Passed last Session
for the repealrof?theCorabination LaWsrniglit,not be altered. •
Mr. SI'KES supported the petition. The Act passed
Session had not yet had a fair trial. It was now attempted t,
stifle irbefore the etfeets,it• was calculated to produce Could. be
justly appreciated. • Some evils,. it WAS true, had resulted from
-it, but they were trifling compared to . those• produced by-the
Cbtnbination Lit.'s. •To introduce them again would be most
mischievous. • . .

. . .
•
• Sir hI IV.II.IDLEY said there was nOintention to te-enact•
the Combination-Laws: The Conmiittee was appointed merely
to-enquire into the effects produced by the Oct of _last .Session,
Head no hesitation in dee/ming that some alteration was ne:,
cessary, but he was not •prepared to say of what precise naturg.
it ought to lie.;:-Ordered to'be printed.

. _ . „
. C1)It LA tVS. , . .
Petitions, praying that no.altera-tion.might be tnade• in the
Corn Liws' were presented front the following places
borough of Appleby, Hurton,,in. Kendal, the parish ot' Ili 4
ton, Ilte:Parish orßishop',., Town, the parish of Crav-en, in the,
county, of Durham ; Darlington, and from the owners :ion?
koccuyiers of lapdresiding in-the city
.of Oxford. .
Ir. .1111,150,441VE presented a petition from
praying. for a:revision of the Corn Laws. . . ; •
AIr...JAMES supported ;he petition.. W:liere ibe.sttbject einne
before the House he sliould,feel it his duty to support an alte-
ratiOn of the laws on principle-of tt JUoderitte.fixeci
He could, notiliow.ever, vote for an 'entirely. free,';rade: in earn.
Al'itli the expellees, to.which the AgriellitiltiSt here was
Was impossible he• could compete: with Thelcireiv,togrovier.—
When the average price here was at or below fiftyefbre shillings
foreign corn sh,„-iia then be exchuled., Between ,fifty.,tive. and...
seventy shillings,he should impose a deity of:144.111e slimmer
between severity:and eighty, 10s. antka.t.eighty, impcirtation
should be as
,free as ,now. .Such a regulation would gie'e the::
manufacturer bread at a moderate price, Pied would nut ruin the:.
.alqieulturist. It was inipossiblr 'that Ilinisteratoitlei:ed.
principles of free trade in other articles -witliettinanpinximat lug,
toe similar system in corn., ...34inisters,-he. heel iIOTIOUtat.
willing to do the.best.for the:public interest,: but tbey werc,fet.
tered ,lay,Tsome in that,llotioe, whose: 14watt:interests were op-
posed 10-those of the publie.„--(4clered:tu be.printeit. ..•
Lord STANLEY presented as petition.:froni the: l'-resitle.‘rat,
i President,. and t tubers of tike ehararr. Pi-Cot-Amerce:of;
:tl.4uchter, in favour of a free iniportatiOnerfsson.
.Lund presented a similar petition from Rochdalr.l-Ordereet to
be pipted, . !. ti, r, t ;
4 petlliho was, presented from Wei-town and-borough of Eye,
praying for reNtsion,of the Corn Lawf,. ; ",f •
J. LOWTII4R, p resen ted.a. petit ion front the inliabitnnts:
pf ‘Vbitehayen,„praying a revision of the Corn Laws.— Ordered
to be laid Qn - : 1,,! LI
Mr. LY,GON.presented a similar petition f-rorrnthe inhabit- •
ants of 'Kidderminster. •,...()rdered to be.laid- o
.:r
'3lr WILSON held WI hands titien• Which! hei
.
thought entitled to thg,highest altention e:f the House. • It nurnerpn.sli and respectably. signed ,by slot less. than five.;
th einsttra: I.{aukeri„, 4.lernhants,, Shipowners, -and Troller:kg of
Linidon„.The.pray4 Id alit petition AVAIS, that ;the House-would.
take ,into, its cpusicieriiduu tbe;e4isting, state of.(the.Corn•.Lawa;.,;:
, and,' from the itopornince. of the. subject,. he thotzghb it welt_ ;*
worthy -pf 0e,.4130pt serious, attention. With.respeetrOthe peti,,;'
tion,itsel‘Arefelt litentaid•to say, that it: was. tbe;zeseilt .of -Abe
most :respectable, ku*.etiug he Itoll,,eyer witnesstd,:t. ,rna'ybe
ah,:ci looked t4ek- onanimous resnit.,ol thatineetier, rfors.'t
amongst the asset4bled,nurrtherst.there was but ease handlrairea
againat two ofAlle; rOfinliitignm which wereenteted inte erpouttke
°Sr-mi°°- W4l?-:.*V•qel• tn. -Any, Corn Laws,- as -they:,rstisted ui tof
PraePtntrig,pvttAckUeirS ,beg. ..remark4 that ;the, bigh•price, OE,
fefid.ii. thiaoputry, Alk.49lPpared with the.-price.ht:ochercoup-o.
tries, !ilia beon3,64:lik,moAt-W,-rproductive of:,thecgreatesis.,evils:
XiisiOones tihemirect, .41.0.priving,thst great .tnais
°T. II9P/741,4.19n; otAnAr.rejs .69,Ankottiii.kaeaustiower --the:price :0f.4
labout, and tend to retard the:accumulation of wealth. It is
injurious to the Constitution generally, and causes the erporta,:
ition Of English capital. They. also bes to impress-upon the
Hon'. House, that the Variation of the price of corn is under the
present system an evil severely felt. This is scarcely ever art

exporting country, except when the price of corn abroad is so
nigh as to cause a partial exportation. And when it is neces-
eery for us to import corn from abroad, we are compelled to
pay double for what we bring from the foreign markets, because
they are governed and directed by the rise in ours, and assimilate
themselves to it. There was another great inconvenience
attendant upon that change "of price, necessary to admit
importation. When our corn became sufficiently high to ren
der importation necessary, the foreign countries unloaded all
their stores, and sent the contents to this country in such quan-
t. tiea, that three or five years may be necessary to relieve the
country from the weight: during this period, it was evident
abe landed interest should take their produce to market, at a
great disadvantage ; for the foreign corn, to which he alluded,
being once here, would remain until it was sold, and thus,
whether the ports were opened from year to year or not, the
Widen interest would have to sustain severe injury. For these
reasons, the Petitioners are of cfpirtion, that the present laws
are an abuse of all the regulations of trade ; that they are per-
fectly inconsistent with the object proposed to be acted upon
when they were framed, and that the time was-come when they
ought to be repealed. The petitioners were of. opinion that a
fixed duty was the best plan that could be devised for the inte-
rests of the country. The fair trader would nonbe exposed to
the false and fraudulent returns of prices liable to be made at
present, and if he had not the high prices which he has hitherto
occasionally had, he would have the advantage of a more equal
and steady trade. Petitioners also beg to express their opinion,
that it is connected with sound principles—that when there is
a difference in the duties and various charges of raising an
article in this and other countries, there should be a difference
made by the Legislature in flavour of this. The petitioners
were most anxious to have it understood, that the mercantile
was not hostile to the ittrieultural interests. They express
their decided opinion' that' th'e system they recommend would
be favourable to both. He would for his part be influenced
by a feeling of delicacy and commiseration towards those
who may suppose themselvesliable to be injured by the altera-
tion, lie would.not take upon himself to declare what the fixed
duty on corn should be. He would be a bold man indeed, who
would .affirm what ,would be a fair protecting duty for the
landed interest. .Iflie erred upon the occasion, he would with
to err upon the:aide-a liberality; he 'would rather give too
much than too talk.- :He thought .the Howie could' not fall
into a more fatal error than in endeavouring to refine too much
upon trade, and forcing it to -conform in every respect to the
• opinions of the 'President of the _Board of Trade, who-wished
to regulate all matters at a single jump. He would be ar xions
to have the returns of the prices of corn in the foreign markets
submitted to the House by our Consuls abroad • tneir prices
would in many cases be found so low, that the feelings of those
who supported the agricultural interest would be staggered, and
there had been in consequence a privation for five or six years,
- inflicted upon those foreigners who have bonded corn in this
country. The petitioners think this to be the most prudent
time for making the proposed alteration, when the prices are
. neither too high nor too low, when they natl. not risen to CO or
90 shillings, nor sunk, as we have seen them, to 35, Petitioners
wish that the subject should receive a_ fair, just, and impartial
consideration, and are anxious that these their sentiments
should be laid before the House, before the general discussion
took place upon the motion of the Member for Bridgnorth.
The Honourable Member again affirmed, that the feelings of
the commercial portion of the community were not hostile to
the agricultural, and prayed that the petition be laid on the table.
Mr. GOOCH was most ready to admit, that a petition from
the inhabitants of the city of London,was entitled to respect,
but he thought it fair to say a few words to shew why it should
not be received. 'lle for himself, would say, that if there was
one subject more than another, that should not be tampered
with, it was this, concerning which the .Hon. Member for
Bridgenorth had given notice of a motion. Was this a time
for such a petition as that presented to the House, when the
people of this country had such feelings of general content, as
they had not experienced for years : when it was declared in the
gracious Speech from the Throne, that this happy country was
In a state of tranquillity and ease? Such was not a time for the
petition which had been presented, and those who signed it
were bound to make out a much stronger case for the alle-
viation they were so anxious to obtain. He did not pretend
to say that the Corn Laws were petfect, that they did not re-
qUire revision. They may be revised in a few years, but it
• should be rememtered that these laws upheld and gave a fair
• remuneration to the landed interest. The citizens of London
had now no reason to complain; they never had more work.—
. 'The labouring men were never better paid. Upon
.Sundays and
Mondays; they feasted upon beef and pudding; their complaints
of distress were a mere humbug, and they should, therefore,
avoid a discussion which agitates the country from one end to
tile other. He had never since he obtained a seat in Parliament
received so many letters as he had upon this subject. The
writers apprehended the worst consequences, that the country
would be reduced to the same lamentable situation as it was
a short, time since ; that the labouring classes would be thrown
'Out of work, and poor-rates raised for their sitiportl. He did
• not thank the lion. Member who prettentedthia:petstion for his
kindness towards the agricultural interest. ~-',the.. cteizierunof
London should do their own business, and suffer the country
• gentlemen to attend to theirs. He would call upon the latter
to exert themselves upon the occasion. If they did, not, he
would say, they " were duller than the .fat with that grow on '
liethe's banks."—(Laughing.) . .
Mr. HUSKISSON said it was northe intention of the Go-
vernment to tenter into a revision of the state of the Cern'Laws, '
as esey existed at present between this and foreign countries ;
it' such a plan were in agitation, Ministers would have thought
it their duty to propose it at an earlier period of the Session.
lie was equally ready to state, that it was the intention of 311-
- - !livers to make some suggestions upon the subject next Ses-
sion, at an early period of which it would perhaps be his duty
to submit to their consideration, the state of the Corn Laws
between this and foreign countries. If the discussion took place
on Thursday, he would state fully why the subject was not
brought under consideration either this Session or this year.
He would feel no difficulty in stating, that he would perhaps
have to submit to their notice, in a few days, a motion partially
connected with this question, connected with the consumption
of wheat, that was for years under lock.
Mr. lIEATIICOTE trusted the lion. Member for Bridg-
north would not bring forward his motion upon a question that
agitated the entire country, and placed it in a state of .fermen- _
tattoo. If the Hon. Member brought it forward, they would ROBERT GOUR LAY.
have tO•go'over it again next year. Mr. HUME presented a Petition from several Landowners
Mr. WHITMORE lamented he could not concur in the 'and other Inhabitants in Fifeshire, praying that Mr. Robert
opinion of the Hon. Member who had just sat down. He felt Gourlay, at present confined in Coldhath-fields' Prison, might
persuaded that the greatest advantages would result from the be restored to his liberty and possessions.
discussion, and with his feelings of the importance of the sabject Mr. Secretary PEEL said, Mr. Gourlay had all along been
he looked forward with confidence to the serious revision of the guided by the nnpression, that he was kept in confinement by
laws, and 'he trusted that the discussion of his motion in its first the Government. Such was not the fact. lie was detained
stage on Thursday would meet all due attention on the part of there by the laws of the country. If respectable bail was put
elle nhers. Il is notice would excite no alarm ; discussion in to insure his good conduct, he would he immediately released ;
would rather have the effect of allaying the ferment. He would, and it would be a great satisfaction to him (Mr. Peel) if some
therefore, persevere in his motion. It was thought he should one would come forward to enable him to be discharged. If
have given earlier notice upon the subject, but lie implored the Mr, Gourlay did not write so many letters, he might have sup-
House to recollect that he had given notice at an early period, posed that his mind had been restored. He had given three-
hot Isis motion was retarded in consequence of being fixed for tions that the poor Gentleman should be treated with all pos-
two nights when the House was occupied in the debates upon sible indulgence.
a most important subject. It was this circumstance that de- Mr. BROUGHAM did not believe that Mr. Gourlay was de-
layed his motion to this advanced period, and he now hoped tamed in confinement by the Government. That person might
that Hon. Members would give to this discussion that fair, full, have been led to the belief, from the Solicitors of the Treasury
and temperate consideration which, from its connexion with so having, in the ordinary course of business, taken him to Bow-
many interests, it well deserved. . street. In the petition.which had b :en presented, a good deal
Mr. CURWEN was of opinion there was not a sufficient was said of Mr. Gourlay's ill treatment in Canada. He COM,
qoentity of corn in the kingdom to bring about the next harvest. plained that he had been brought to trial at a time when the
Alderman THOMPSON 'coincided in the truth of the re- state of his mind wholly incapacitated him from undertaking a
mark made by the Hon. Member who had just sat down. In defence. That had arisen from a long confinement in a hot ch.
aonaequence of this want of corn, if the ports should beopened, mate, which had exasperated his original malady. Any one
what would then be the situation of the larded interest ? who read his letters in the Public Papers might be exculpated
Mr. BARING thought the conduct of his Rt. Hon. Friend, from believing him to heof an unsound mind. He (Mr. B.) had
illr. Huskisson, was placing the House and the country in the no more a quarrel with him than with any Member of the
most inconvenient situation. .He affirmed the Government [loose i Mr. Gourley asked him to present a petition, for the
wtald not discuss the question this year, but it would early in better Education of the Poor ; and his request was accompanied
the next. This untold be keeping up the gredfdissatisfatibn and- with a wish, that he (Mr. B.) would- enter into a history of his
ferment, of which the Hon. Member connected with the county mal.treatment. lie had complied with both requests. A friend
of Lincoltfhad spoken. This Hon. Member; in common with of Mr G.'s had excused his conduct, by saying, that he had an
iutby others, would not' for this interval kneive the value of his over-irritable feeling of honour, which induced him to suppose
property, which would depend entirely upon the scale of protecn that those who neglected, had ill-treated him. But if he pos-
dolt afforded by Parliament to him. It was not the farmer alone_ sessed this romantic feeling, it had been allowed to rankle long
who was in this situation. No gentleman could make a settle- in his heart ; as he had presented the petition three years before
nnent or family arrangement until he knew what regulation was Mr. Gourlay commenced the extraordinary outrage upon him,
made by the House respecting the trade in corn. • The country at the door of the House. The language he used at that time
would thus be in a state of the most perfect uncertainty. •if the was not not a little remarkable,—" Let the dead bury the dead,"
Right Hon. Gentleman said he did not intend to make any al. alluding to the case of Missionary Smith, which he (Mr. B.)
.terations in the laws, he would be intelligible; but when he says -had brought before Parliament—" The living should take care
the time is too late for diScussion, he makes no answer at,all ; of the living."—(Laughter.)—He sincerely wished that Mr. G.
mid lie keeps alive for a whole year the conflict and clashing of might get bail put in, and thus be restored to-liberty.
interests, which it was their duty to allay. The House, in his 'Mr. PEEL said, when Mr. Gourlay was called to state his
opinion,,wotild not be doing its duty' it' it did not sit till Christ- reasons for the assault on the Hon. Member for Wincheisea
• mas,_if by so doing it could put an end to such a state: This (Mr. Brougham), he answered, that he only imitated the highest
waii the time 'when they cotild perform their duty—when, on authority by scourging sinners in the temple.—( Loud laughter.)
account of the general prosperity of the country, they would not Mr..). WILLIAMS said, he hadubeen instructed by Mr.
be pressed upon by distrsts, either in the House or out of it.— Gourlay to present a Petition to the House, which complained
Ile had a strong feeling; That the laws upon corn were most dis- of the conduct of the Visiting Magistrates towards him.
satisfactory as to their-form. He did not wish to have' their Mr. PEEL—I will make inquiry into the circumstances
protection withdrawn from die landed interest: he thought it statedin the petition, and if there be any grounds of complaint,
was due to them. Whilst this was his opinion he dissented from redress shall be afforded.
the mode and form of those laws by which that protection was -After a few words from Mr. H üblE, the petition was ordered
afforded. Whatever was done upon the subject he was sure of to be printed.
this, that the subject of corn should not be tampered with year Mr. HUME presented a Petition from the Catholic Inhabi-
Idier year ; they should do at once what was right; and not per- tarts of Naas, in the county of' Kildare,
site such a line of conduct as Must injure property in general, t tic Bill.—Laid on the table. in favour of the Catho.
.
Mr. Alderman WOOD denied the luxurious living attri- Lord MILTON presented a Petition from the Shipowners
bated by the Hon. Member for Suffolk .to the lahouring-dasses of Whitby, praying for the repeal of the Duties on Blubber.—
..in London. The measure of • the corn laws should be adopted • Ordered to be printed. "
at once by the Government. - They should bnve done it when Lord BELGRAVE presented a petition from Chester
' they gave a free trade andremoved other rettrictions, against any further concessions to the Catholics. The Noble
SirT; KNATCHIAILL said he very wellknewthat his Ri'ht, Lord stated that he differed entirely from then eotiments of his
-41444riendivasmotfavourable:to the existing Corn Laws, but constituents ; and he could not help fee-
lirjg stprised. that they
....... • . .

at the same time he thought no alteration should be made until
positive inconveniences were stated the House. The landed
interest had no wish unnecessarily to protect itself ; all interests
in this country were bound up together ; and the prosperity of
onewould lead to the prosperity of all; injury to one would
tend also .to injury to all., lie hoped, however, that no change
would take place without adequate enquiry.
Lord MILTON took the present opportunity of saying a few
words on the subject, as he had to.present petitions for an alte-
ration of the Corn Laws from certain manufacturers, and against
it from several landholders. The commercial people thought
the alteration absolutely due to them, and the landed interest,
which was now beginning to revive, insisted the other way. He
did not wish to enter into a discussion of the question at this
moment; but if enquiry were necessary—if an alteration were
necessary—if one class called for cheap bread, and another for
protection, he asked whether it would not be better to enter
into an enquiry now, when all classes were prosperous, than
when circumstances might be in a less prosperous situation.
Ministers should make up their minds upon the question, and ,
set it at rest at once. He hoped the Hon. Member for Brig-
north would bring forward his motion on Thursday next, in
order that the public mind might be relieved from its anxiety.
Mr. WODEHOUSE differed very.materially with the Noble
Lord, and he merely rose to say, that premature discussion on
so important a subject would be exceedingly inconvenient.
Mr. F. LEWIS was friendly to discussion. Protection was
wrong, because built upon the basis of a depreciated paper cur-
rency„ and the mode of the operation of the law was also bail.
Theri there were two wrongs, and he regretted that he should
have voted for laws which necessity alone seemed to justify.
Protections and prohibitions were equally injurious to free
trade. Then let.the House decide, and discuss the question at
°nee; ho individual could grapple adequately with it. The
Government alone could effectually legislate upon it. Contracts
were made every day ; land% were let arid re-let every day, with
a view to-the rate of prices—with a view to family provisions,
to annuities, and other matters.; and it was most desirable to
hx something likely to prove permanent and just ; no suspense
should take place, the public mind-should be relieved, for such
was its importance that anxiety must prevail until it was settled.
r. CA LCRA FT thought this question. aught to be settled.;
and if any change were intended, the Government-should have
given notice of any such intended changeeeveral weeks ago. It
was not too late to -commence enquiry, and if it were, let the
Session be.prolonged to consider His Majesty's Ministers
adopted .11 most inconvenient course in not stating to the coun-
try what they intended. For himself, he had already objected
to the. Corn Laws. The system of averages was as absurd as it
was •fraudulent,.and why should such a system be continued
As far as the averages were concerned, he hoped something
would be done, anti the sooner it was done the better.

Sir T. LETHBRIDGE admitted there was a considerable
excitation upon this subject, and, therefore, wished for dis-
cussion. From what he bad heard this-evening, he hoped
the Government would take up the subject ; he wished tbr
open ports, and a certain scale of protection, in order to fix the
rate of prices. He did not wish for higher than the pre-
sent ; he thought them, perhaps, too high ; but it was time that
corn-growers and corn-consumers should understand each other
in the matter of their necessary contracts. He again said, he
wished for open ports and fixed duties; and as to what those
duties might be he would leave to the wisdom of Government.
Air. HUSKISSON said he would strictly confine himself to
the question before the House. •It was made a matter of com-
plaint, that notice of an alteration in the corn laws was net long
since given ; but it was the first time he ever heard that notice
was to be given in a matter not intended to be proposed by the
Government. The regulations of 1821 and 1822 were merely
temporary, and by no means intended to be the rule and guidance
of Government upon a question of such very great importance.
When the question was discussed then the opinion of Govern-
ment would be fully pronounced, but until that period arrived,
he could say nothing more distinctly. There were great diffi-
culties attending the question, and on Thursday next he hoped
he would be able to demonstrate that to the satisfaction .of the
House. It would be desirable to avoid all uncertainty on this
topic, but there were considerations attending it which he could
not now prematurely discuss, but wait until the fitting occa-
sion should arrive. With respect to another question put to
him, as to taking off bounties and protecting duties, he would
merely say, that, in furtherance of the precepts of free trade,
already acted .upon, he would pursue it in the course of the
next session.

11Ir. CALCRAFT explained, and the petition was laid on
the table.

A 3lessage from the Lords intimated their Lordships' assent
to several Bills.

Mr. S. WORTLEY presentetla petition from a town-in ones
of the Ridings of York, respecting the linen duties..
The same Hon. Member presented a petition from Halifax,
praying that there, should be a duty on Corn ; also two peti-
tions from the Corn-dealers in Leeds, and the Merchants, &c.
in Halifax, praying for a revision, of the Corn Laws-
Mr. CURWEN presented a petition from Workington, for
a revision-of these Laws. .

•Lord-MILTON presented a petition from Leeds, the Cloth-
hall of Leeds; and Wakefield, to the same effect; also petitions
from Easingwold, Auld, Coxwould, and Selslq, in the Ridings
of York, praying that no alteration might take place in the
'Corn Laws.—Ordered to be printed.
Colonel BAILLIE presented a petition from llolderness, in
the county of York, praying that no alteration might ,take
place-in these Laws.
Sir G. CLERK presented a similar petition from the Land.
owners in the county of Edinburgh.
Mr. E. WODEHOUSL presented similar petitions from
the hundreds in the county of Norfolk. The Hon. Member
observed that he ILO never been an advocate for high duties,
and he would not be an advocate for them under any circum-
stances.—The petition-was ordered to be printed.
Sir E. KNATCHBUIA. presented a Petition from the
Owners and Occupiers of Land -m.the county of Kent, against
any alterations in the Corn Lawn; also two Petitions to the
same effect from itocheiter and the
.parish of Great Mungo.
These petitions were ordered to be printed-
GAME LAWS.

On the motion of Mr.S..WOIi.HEY, the third reading of
the Game Lam,' Bill was postponed.
The report of the Scottish Jurors' 13111 was postponed till
Monday next. •,