The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-14 00:00:00

VENING, JULY l4; 1849.

Member for Limerick (Mr. J. O'Cmnell) was entitled
to the inquiry he asked for, especially as there was
such a difference of opinion upon the facts aught to
be ascertained. He should, therefore, support the
motion.
Colonel DUNNE hoped that the motion would be put
off :0 next sessi,n.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL withd,ew his motion.
SUPPLY.
The House then went into Committee.
Sir R. PEEL said his du'y woul I be sufficiently per--
formed by placing in the bands of the Chairman the vote
for the British Museum, amounting to 42,9151.
Mr. HUME said he was gratified to see that the
number of visitors had increased, and the library had
become more accessible. He looked foward to the re•
port of the Committee which was sitting upon this in•
stitution with much interest. While upon this subject
he might urge that steps should be taken to give the
rooms now occupied by the Royal Academy, in the Na-
tional Gallery, to the acomods.tion of the Vernon col-
lection. He anticipated other similar presents in a short
time, and hoped that to eneoueage this feeling the Gi•vern-
ment would provide suitable accominodati,n. The Royal
Academy was rich enough to erect a proper edifice of its
own for the carrying, out of its objects, without occupy -
jug the rooms intended for the national collection.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the subject had
not been lost sight of, for he had moved for a Committee,
which had been appointed, and he looked forward to its
report next session, with a view to meet the public con-
venience.
Mr. FOX said it was an error to say that the readers
in the library of the British Museum had increased. The
means of accommodation might be greatly increased, but
he would reierve the point till the discussion should
come on next session.
Mr. EWART wished to know when they might ex-
pect the report of the Committee? With respect to the
It.yal Academy, it was expressly understood, that when
the public should require the moms they occupied thk y
should be given up.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that there was a growing
disposition on the part of the public to avail themselves
of the benefits of the British Museum. Every facility
was given to view the works of art consistent with their
safe custody. There was a very serious loss the other
day of valuable coins. The returns showed a yearly
increase in the visitors to the print•rooms and the mu-
seum. __ _ -

Mr. EWART said that there had been a falling off in
the reading•roums of visitors, the number now being
5,000 less than in 1842.
Mr. HUME said that very considerable difficulties
had arisen from want of a good catalogue of reference,
which he hoped the Committee would suggest the means
to obviate.
The vote was agreed to, as were also the following:-
112,8001. for the disembodied militia in England and
Ireland.
119 9501. for the excess of the army expenditure.
59,9001. for defraying the charge of the New Houses
of Parliam..nt to 1850.
Mr. HUME would like to know if that was the entire
vote for the yeas?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was the balance of the vote originally proposed fur the
year.

Mr. HUME asked if it would not be better to take
a larger sum of money, and carry the works on more
rapidly?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the Government at one time had determined to proceed
more slowly, but they found that certain contracts had
been entered into, which could not be stopped without
great lois; it had therefore been resolved that they
should be proceeded with, bat that no new works should
be entered upon without the sanction of the Treasury.
Mr. lIUME said, that he feared after all the expense
they had gone to they would not have a house fit for the
transaction of public business. The Cummitteeroome
were not ventilated; it was difficult to hear in them, and
he hoped that was not a sample of the new house.
Another point was the remuneration to the architect.
lie found by the paper on the table an application for
more money. He trusted the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer would take care that the business would be arranged
In such a manner as not to induce the architect to spend
money. He thought there was great cause to complain
of the excess over the original estimate.
Mr. SPOONER, urged the necessity for the more
speedy completion of the buildings. They had already
spent 192,760/, on the temporary buildings required by the
House and its officers.—(Hear, hear.) In addition, b)
the slow way they were proceeding, it made the cost of
the building from 12 to 15 per cent. dearer than it would
otherwise be. The public were injured by the dilatory
mode in which the works were carried on, and at the
same time the contractor was injured. He entered upon
the works on the faith that they would be carried for-
ward as rapidly as possible. He made all his arrange-
ments, and engaged an efficient staff of clerks, superin-
iendents, and workmen, in order to carry on the works
en the original scale, and when he had invested 20,0001.
in this way, without any return for it, he thought that if
he made a claim for interest on that amount, the House
you'd be bound in equity to grant it. The longer they
• lelsyed the building, the more it would cosi; and if the
'lowing acs tint of the pr,sperity of the country, with
,ehich the Chancellor of the Exchequer had lately
tvoured the House, was accurate, or if the Right Hon.
Baronet had any faith in his own statements, he thought
he was bound to go into the money market and raise the
necessary sum to complete the building as speedily as
possible. Ile was certain that was the best economy.
Mr. LIUNIE thought that what the Hon. Gentleman
bad stated deserved serious consideration. They ought
'o have two objects in view, economy and aecommoda-
ion. Economy certainly was not attained by their pre •
'ent course. They had spent nearly as much already foe
emperary accommodation as the amount of the estirnett
m laid before the Committee for building both Houses of
Parliament.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted
that the sum for temporary ace,immAation was very
large, but its expenditure had been indispensable. fli-
noped that next year the sum under this bead would b
•naterially reduc. d. As to the financial statenhmt on
the state of the country, be would riot go into that, but
merely give his opinion that it would not be judicious to
take a loan for carrying on the buildings more rapidly.
After a few words from Mr. SPUONER and Mr. HUME
in explanation.
Mr. EwAitt expressed a hope that something would
be done to the Genutittee rooms; they were no: only un.
-entilated, hut extremely di ficient in accommodation.
as had very great respect for the architect, but he
thought that he should at least have consulted wi li
those who were to inhabit the building. If he had c.o
ulted the old Members of the House he would have
P'ound the necessity for providing each Committee-room
with a retiring room for the Coimmittin., instead of which
the while of the counsel, solicitors, agents, witnesses,
mud the public, had to be turned into the lobbies when-
..ever the Committee wished to deliberate.—(Hear, bear.)
He feared that if the new Howe was constructed with a
similar absence of attention to the practical reqeiremente
ef the Members, they would suffer great inconvenience
after an enormous expenditure.
Mr. GREENE (as we understood) said that in one or
two rooms a division had be, n (nude by means of e
cresn, which enabled the Committee to retire, and at the
same time improved the hearing.
Mr. EW ART like to hear from the FL)n.
Member whether they were to have the BaTryian or the
idian system of ventilation in the Hou,e otCommone?
Mr. GREENE replied that the ventilation of the
House of Commons and the adjoining lobbies was in-
trusted to Dr. Reid; the House of L ;Ms and other por
Lions of the edifice were to be under the management of
sir. Barry.
Sir a WILLOUGFIBY said that last year he had
moved for a return as to the aeual cost of these Houses.
They had now got it, from which it appeared that it was
to amount to 2,043,0001.; that was one point gained.
He now wanted to knew who were the really responsible
parties for this expenditure. The Commission, of
which the Hon. Member (Mr. Greene) was a worthy
member, had apparently no power to regulate it, and it
appeared from the letter of the Treasury, expressing sur•
prise at the amount of the estimate, that it was equally
powerless. lla thought, however, that the Treasury
ought to have the full power of deciding upon all esti-
mates. For instance, he found 497,000/. put down for
fittings and furniture. What guarantee had they that
the estimate would not be exceeded? Who were the
parties by whom the estimate was prepared, and what
eecarity did they give for its completion at that amount?
Every one knew that a tradesman might easily make a
margin of one-third more upon an estimate. Ile thought
that in order to prevent waste and mismanagement there
'night to be a separate department under the Treasury,
vith full powers to superintend and regulate the whole of
the matter. If' some such step was not taken in time, he
feared that instead of 2,043.000 L, th. y would find that
two millions and a half would not cover the cost. The
sum to be paid as remuneration to the architect was also
a matter for serious consideration.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed
that the business had not boon conducted in a very satis -
factory It would be rememb 'red, however, that
much of what held been referred to had b,:en done before
lie came Into ofEce.—(Hear, hear.) At the same time
the successive Committees that had sat on the subject
nad reported that all that had been done up to the time
of their appointment bad been duly sanctioned. It should
else. be remembered that tit the early stage of the works
Committees of both Houses had been engaged in the
business, which to some extent took it out ut the bands
of the Government.—(Hear. hear.) As to the origami
estimate of 772,0001., it would be remembered that was
merely for the carcass as it, were of the Houses. As to
the appointment of a special department to regulate the
works, he apprehended the Commission appointed by
the House in 1844 was entrusted with that duty, and so
far as he knew had faithfully and. zealously discharged
it, and he had no reason to suppose that, giving the
power to any other body, would be more effective.
After a few words from Mr. SPOONER and Mr. GREENE,
Mr. HUME renewed his objections to the excessive
overcharge on the amount of the original estimate.
Above all, he protested against any more than 25,000/.
being given to the architect. Sir Robert Peel hail dis-
tinctly stated to the Committee, of which he was a mem
ber, that Mr. Barry bad agreed to do the work for that
sum; and he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would not alter the arrangement in a way to give Mr
Barry an inducement to go on with a large expenditure.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY repeated his objections to the
mode in which the estimates were prepare-d, and the
want of proper guarantees and superintendence.
Air. MUNTZ wished to know whether the money they
were now voting was to be expanded on the Victoria
Tower, or in finishing the H. use of Commons?
Mr..,GREENE replied that all possible speed would be
made in the completion of the new House.
Mr. I)M:M.I4OND slid that. looking at the drawings
of the Houses 01 Yerliam. nt. it shoe ed them to be ver)
innompteent judges of such theta.. if they theught tho
cou'd be treetud tor 700 0001. The Prutitile way
not the first time.the House tied defreeded them). whom
that' had emploed. They bad efeatepframiei out
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