The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-27 00:00:00

TURDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 1536.

last night-, because he conceived it most tyrannical; but al-
though he might have said that it was a great Constitutional
question, still be thought that the orders of the day should

lave precedence. -
Lord JOHN RUSSELL explained. He had moved the
Order of the day for the House going into a Committee of
Supply, but with the leave of the House he had consented to
withdraw the motion, as he thought -the present time better
for the discussion of the question relative to the Borough of
Poole than was afforded that morning.—(Cries of " Qucs-
tion,"• " Withdraw," " Divide," and much confusion.)
The SPEAKER. put the question, that the motion for the
Committee of Supply be withdrawn.—(Cries of " No, no,"
" Aye, aye," and renewed noise.)
• Several Members rose to address the House, Lut were met
by cries of " Question," &c., which rendered it impossible for
us to hear a single word.
Mr. NIA CLE AN begged to call the attention of the House
to the interference that was taking place is the contest now
going Loud cries of " Chair," " Order," " Question,"
in the midst of which the Hon. Member sat down.)
The SPEAKER said the motion for the Committee of
Supply had been disposed of, and the House was now in the
same position as when the Hon. and Learned Member rose to
move that the adjourned debate be now resumed.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY recommended to the Hon. Member
(Mr. Maclean) to withdraw his motion for the present. The
case of the Poole election could not occupy much time.

SP kIN.
Mr. MACLE AN could assure the Hon. Member that it
was of the utmost importance that he should In ing forward his
motion at once.—(Cries of "Go on.") With the permis-
sion of the House he would proceed. He need not say that
the subject which he was about to bring under the consideration
of the -House, was at this moment one of peculiar interest.
He hoped the. House would give him credit for believing
there was no one less capable than himself to bring
forward the subject which he had taken upon himself to do.
When he found :the consequences of what was going on in
the northern provinces of Spain had already began to develope
themselves in a manner that might implicate the honour of Great
Britain, the House would grant him its iedulgence for press-
ing upon it a matter which he thought called for investigation.
In point of fact, the information that was received was
either incorrect, or the troops had been improperly sent
out.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord acknowledged that he had
followed no precedent in allowing troops to go out.
In the reasoning of the Noble Lord there was not much
novelty, when he stated that it was a case of right of
wrong, and that the success of the measure would shew whe-
ther it was politic or not. The Noble Lord stated that the
force about to be levied and sent out of this country, by the
suspension of the Foreign Enlistment Bill, through the direct
interference of the Crown of this kingdom, and through the
medium of an Order in Council, was for the purpose of putting
down an insurrection, consisting of 11,000 or 12,000 persons
only, in one of the remote provinces of the northern part of
Spain. Now, if it were true that those troops were levied for
the purpose of putting down an insurrection consisting merely
of that numerical force, he would ask the Noble Lord, what
could have then been the vigorous or rigorous power of the
Spanish Monarchy, who were calling at that time upon this
country to do that which we had abstained from doing ever
since 1688, for the purpose of putting down an insurrection of
11,000 or 12,000 men, and that in an obscure province of the
Peninsula ? Why, what bad been the result of our interference ?
Either the communication of the Noble Lord was correct, or it
was not. If it was correct that the insurrection extended only
to 11,000 or 12,000 persons, and in one obscure province,
how would the Noble Lord account for that insurrection not
only not having been suppressed by Spain herself, but having
attained such accession and vigour as to be able to defy allthe
energy of the Spanish Government in combination with the
troops sent out from this country ? From the official returns
connected with Don Carlos it was known, even in the begin-
ning of this year, that the troops of Don Carlos amounted to
very nearly 60,000 individuals. So that between the period
when these troops went out—between the period when the
Noble Lord spoke on this subject—between the period when
General Evans landed at Bilboa, up to the beginning of 1836,
being a space of five months, the rebellion in those provinces
hadincreased from 11,000 to 12,000 men (according to the
official returns), to 57,000 men, and the insurrection had ex-
tended itself from Biscay to Navarre, Guposcoa, Aragon, and
Catalonia. Thus it appeared that the troops sent out were in-
sufficient to perform the work required of them ; and the
work which they had done had not, he believed, been such as
was expected by the Noble Lord ; for the returns showed
they had utterly failed in their undertaking. The Hon.
Member for Marylebone (Mr. H. Bulwer) seated that in the
time of Queen Elizabeth there was a precedent for the course
which the Noble Lord had pursued. But the case of Queen
Elizabeth—to which he (Mr. Maclean) also briefly alluded—
was perfectly distinct from this. She sent troops, she lent
money, she guaranteed the payment of a certain sum to the
Dutch (the Dutch having previously offered her the throne,
which she generously declined), in order to oppose the in-
trigues of Don John of Austria in the Netherlands, who was
intriguing for a marriage with the Queen of Scots, that
threatened the subs ersion of Elizabeth's own Government.
It was, therefore, time for her ,to interfere, and which she did
with sagacity and with policy, in the affairs of the Netherlands.
Another allusion made by the Hon. Member for Marylebone
was to the case of King W4liana. He stated that King NVil-
liam was accompanied to this country by his Dutch guards ;
but he (Mr. Maclean) would ask, whether there was any ana-
logy between the case of King William arriving in England,
distracted as this country was by circumstances of no ordinary
nature, with 7,000 Dutch guards for the purpose for which he
was called, and the case new under the consideration of the
House ; that of this Government interfering by suppl3inr,
troops to the Queen of Spain to be under her par, not to be
under the orders of British Generals, but Spanish Generals ;
and, except their being British troops, having no connection
whatever with this country. He would say that there was no
analogy whatever between the cases of Queen Elizabeth and
King William and the present case. The Noble Lord stated,
as a further vindication of the policy he, pursued, that the in-
terest of the Queen of Spain was essentially an English ques-
tion. If any man were to tell him that, in the event of Don Car-
los succeeding in what he ( Lord Palm erston) held to be impos-
sible, establishing himself on the throne of Spain,and in restoring
all those principles of internal government and of foreign policy
which would inevitably accompany his establishment—if any
man were to tell him that such a change in the state of Spain
would leave her as efficient an ally in the, spirit of the Quad-
ruple Treaty for England, as she would continue to be if the
cause of the Queen should triumph—he would tell that indi-
vidual that he neither understood the interests of England,
nor the spirit of the treaty in question.—(H:ar, hear.) The
Noble Lord might be right ; but he would put the other
alternative, and he would suppose that it was just possible,
which the Noble Lord had ex cathedr4 stated to be impossi-
ble, for Don Carlos to be successful ; and he would ask
whether he did not think since that speech was made matters
had not so changed their aspect as, he would not say would in-
sure the success of Don Civics (for, perhaps, it was im-
material to gentlemen on his side of the House. whether
Don Carlos succeeded or not), but whether circumstances
had not so changed their aspect as to render it possible
that he might succeed ? Supposing he did succeed—for the
events of war no one could foresee—their issue no one could
predict—and that Don Carlos should become King of Spain
—he would ask the Noble Lord did he not think that the
interference of this country in this mode and manner was likely
to be prejudicial to the interests of Great Britain ? Could it
be expected that after this country had done everything it
could, except by an armed intervention under our own troops
and generals, to oppose Don Carlos, the holders of the 81)4e
nish bonds would realise the sums guaranteed by tine Queen
for the succours we ourselves had supplied to her ? If not,
then the policy on which the Noble Lord acted was a ono,
sided policy. It went upon the ground that the Queer; roust
succeed. We were told that the Spanish nation were longing
for the dominion of the Queen, and that the constitutional
government promised by her would be a panacea that would
cure all the evils that distracted that country. Were those
juntas, whom the vigour and vigilance of M. Mendizabal
had, if not annihilated, reduced to obedience and sub-
jection--were they satisfied with the predecessors of Msn-
dizabal ? Up to the end of 1835, every province had its junta,
and every junta its constitutional nostrum. There was a pre-
valence of feeling throughout the country almost verging on
republicanism. Where the Carlists did not threaten the au-
thority of the Queen, the Republicans threatened it almost
with equally imminent danger. The malcontents, with all the
zeal of proselytes, were panting for republicanism, while on the
other side the adherents of Don Carlos were reproaching
the Queen with the violation of all legitimate authority: Had
we by our interference stifled the one, or eradicated the other?
Was there not sufficient evidence that instead of having done
so, we had matured the flame into a degree of greater vivid-
ness, and had excited the people of Spain into a degree of
animosity which we should never be able to suppress ? We
had, in point of fact, aimed at what it was impossible for us
to do—the extinction of a feeling which was indigenous in the
Spanish people—a feeling of hatred to the interference of
foreigners. Was that a feeling of yesterday? As feeling
wohviac h
hadthetroo excitedps
?of General Evans,
not,Ev h'es, owrasthe
lr
sure,
soldiers
allude oft
0C
the
dlanguage of an illustrious statesman, whose memory was dear
to many in that House—he meant the late Mr. Canning--he
need not allude to what he had said on a former occasion, to
convince any Hon. Gentleman of the strength of that feeling
in the Spanish breast, which he (Mr. Maclean) had denomi-
nated "an indigenous feeling." In the year 1823, when Mr.
Canning was speaking of the contest then going on in Spain
by the armed intervention of the French, and deprecated
that intervention, acknowledging that it was an act of gross
injustice, he said, " Before we enter upon a war, let us
stnhde
well
lin question.
the
generous Though t
hou
be persuaded that it is a just one.—( Hear, hear.) Not
is
julyslt usfoetru
bes
to interferepersuad in it—( He
persuaded that itisajuasrt, h
one,ea
hear)
—utanadlsonotthaotnliyt
that it just for us to interfere in it, but let us be persuaded
that it is expedient to the interests of this country that we
should do so. He would be but a visionary politician who
wo
thislas
abandonmentt conditiono
f it
mayousound
ofo
speech of an irresponsible orator, with the safety of a nation
on his lips, and none of the responsibility upon his shoulders,
teu gloriousld leave
it is matter deeply to be considered; and the Minister who
should lay it out of his view in calling on the country to un-
dertake a war, would well deserve that universal censure and
g
reprobation with which the Noble Lord has this night me-
naced me." Mr. Canning, on the same occasion' said that it
was impossible to disguise from ourselves—not that he would
question the gratitude of the Spaniards for the great feats per-
formed by our victorious arms—but that it was impossible to
tpiQpT xas l. from ourselves that some. thing like feeling of ratula-
o
exoed the hearts of the `§paniards whets they saw
the, 'ass ef those victorious seldierS embark from their shores.
There WO another point, and one of considerable importance,
to which be wished to call the attention of the House. He
would ask if anything more dangerous to the discipline
or ?eminent stabili7 of the arml could have been de.

vised than the course which had—becn.--purstreti with
regard to the enlistment of. the troops ,th-ttt. had been
sent to Portugal. ir he knew anything" of the-- TrifiSh sol-
dier's character, it was a mixture of loyalty.to'his" King and
devotion to his father-land. He would, ask whether anything

could be more dangerous to the high-character which aitache'd
to our army, :from the great achievements they had made,
than a continuance of those practices and principles which
had lately been adopted—than a proposition emanating from

the. highCst •authorit; in the State as it were, inviting men
to enlist under the banners of a foreign Sovereign—or than
the sufferings which those troops had recently endured—dis-
asters the most painful and most galling to gallant men ?
He would ask the Noble Lord whether the highest military

authority in this country, a•lvcrting to the provisions of the
Quadrupartite treaty, would sanction the course of proceeding
of which he complained? Independently of these considera-
tions, it must be remembered that the English troops in Spain

were not under the orders of our own commanders, but were
under the orders of officers out there whom .they were corn-
' pelted to obey, and who were, therefore, liable to become par-
ties to all the aggressions that might arise from their treachery,
duplicity, or misconduct. Lc him call the Noble Lord's at-

tention to a recent, and, he believed, an authentic communi-

cation, describing the state of those troops, dated " Vittoria,
January 26." - The writer of that letter stated that the troops

had suffered most severely, from the immense number of sick
A great fever had cut off many, and, what would seem very
extraordinary, the frost had done them fearful injury, some
of the men having lost their toes, and others their feet, in ad-
dition to which thy had.to undergo the hardship of sleeping
on the brick floor of a damp convent, with now and then a
bivouac in the open air. These the writer assigned as the
causes of the sickness that prevailed. They never showed
themselves before the castle without the black flag being dis-
played, and one-half of the men were labouring under the ef-
fects of diseases, which were not ,confined to the men alone,
but under the influence of which the officers were daily falling
victims. The writer concluded by expressing his opinion that
they could not at present muster more than 5,050 able men.
What had been the situation of the English troops on a late
occasion ? Deserted by those who ought to 'have supported
them, they were compelled to fly from before the Carliats, into
whose hands their persons must inevitably have fallen, but for
a thick fog coming on, which rendered pursuit useless. It
was such circumstances as these which induced him to say
that the interference of Great Britain, by means of these
soldiers, was detrimental to the character she had so well
established in the Peninsula.—( Hear, hear.) He did not
charge these men with want of gallantry ; he did not say
that their conduct was reprehensible on that score ; but he
maintained that their be:ng obliged:to leave the field, and
only retiring in safety through the intervention of a fog, was
in itself sufficient to tarnish the renown, the honour, and the
character of the British empire.—( Hear, bear.) In 1835 the
Noble Lord opposite acknowledged that England had inter-
flred in the war. What were the responsibilities we had con-
tracted by doing so, and what were the consequences which
might result from that interference ? Suppose it should be-
come the policy of the Russian, Austrian, and Neapolitan Go.
vernments to interfere in favour of Don Carlos, in what a
situation would England be placed? Let the House remem-
ber the present position of affairs. The succession to the
Crown of Spain was still undecided, and the claim of Don
Carlos, as compared with that of the Queen, might still be
mooted in that country. The Basque provinces possessed
privileges which no other province possessed—of a very im-
portant and valuable nature—being no less than the right
of raising their own custom duties, and taxing themselves.
These privileges the Government of the Queen of Spain had
abrogated. What was the effect of our interference ? To
make ourselves virtually parties to that proceeding.—( Hear,
hear.) It was curious, that of France and England, we_33t.L.•re
the only nation which had promised to furnish to the Queen of
Spain a naval force, arms, and amminition, and militaiy
stores—that we were the only nation to which any loss could
accrue. The King of France pledged himself to no overt
act, but we pledged ourselves to assist the Queen of Spain
with a naval force or, in other words, to render the funds
of this country available for the prosecution of this domestic
struggle. But this was not all ; in the additional articles
we pledged ourselves to assist the Queen of Spain with arms,
ammunition, and military stores. There was no gua-
rantee on the part of the Queen of "Spain for the payment of
these supplies, or of any portion of them ; and he really
thought that when we promised so much, the other party
might have promised something. The King of France pro-
mised in an additional article to take all necessary precautions
for preventing the passing of stores to Don Carlos. He did
not think the King of France would incur any very great ex-
pense in the discharge of this obligation, and he entertained,
in common with many other persons, a shrewd suspicion that
the watch which was kept along the line of the Pyrenees
was not of a very vigilant nature., (Hear, hear.) How did it
happen else, that Don Carlos, in his secluded retirement, with
12,000 ragged troops, had been enabled to raise an army of
50,000 men ?—(Hear, hear, hear.) He would relate an
anecdote on this part of the subject, which he had heard from
very good authority : Shortly after we had sent some muskets
out to Spain, a sally, headed by Zumalacarrcguy, took place
against the Queen's troops, who, after showing themselves a
little while making what he believed was called a 46demon-
snation," retired, leaving behind them a considerable number
of new muskets. Zumalacarrcguy, who was very curious in
arms, and had a great taste for coleclting them, possessed
himself of these muskets, and shortly afterwards sent his com-
pliments to General Rodil, with a polite message, intimating
that as the arms they had taken bore the Tower mark, and as
his troops had a decided preference for that description of
fire arms, they would feel highly obliged to him if he would
have the kindness to allow his men to carry them on all future
occasions.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) After referring to a
pamphlet, written by Captain Hensingen, a gentleman who
had served upwards of a year with Zumalacarreguy, the
Honourable Gentleman proceeded to contend that if them,
had been any obligation on this country to interfere in
the quarrel with an armed force, it would Irdive been
distinctty specified in the treaty, and not left to the discre-
tion of Government. He would not trouble the House further.
Ha thought it his duty thus to bring under its consideration
the foreign policy pursued by the Government in this instance,
and to call for an investigation into the lino of conduct that
had been adopted by the Noble Lord opposite (the Secretary
for Foreign Affairs), in permitting a force of 10,000 British
troops to take part in the civil war now raging in Spain, con-
trary to the letter of the treaty of the Quadruple Alliance. He
did not complain of a supply of arms having been furnished,
because that was consistent both with the spirit and letter of
the treaty, but he contended that if an armed force was to be
supplied, it ought to have been specified in the treaty itself, and
not loft to the discretion of any Minister. It was for our ho:-
nour and dignity that the sacredness of the treaty snould be
maintained. He felt strongly for the honour of his native
country, with which he considered the honour of the army to
be entwined, No one, he was sure, felt more for that honour
than the Noble Lord opposite. No one, he was sure, could
feel regret more than the Noble Lord would, if the laurels that
had been planted on Spanish soil by the British sword, and
nourished by British blood, should wither and decay in the
present discreditable contest. If England must speak, let her
speak as of old.—( Cheers.) If she must draw the sword from
the scabbard, let her not sheathe it until she converts it into a
ploughshare, Tho best advice, he believed, that could be
given and adopted in this eventful crisis, was to withdraw our
men altogether foom the scene, in which they did not act any
part that became the character of British soldiers. Ho would
say to the Noble Lord—.

" FOrt i ter oceupa,
Portum. Nonne video, ut
Nudum remigio latus,
Et malus celeri :auzius Africo,
Antenna-N:lw gement ?"
The Noble Lord could not palliate to the sons of Spain the
course be had pursued, He had prevented their having the
opportunity of vindicating their own cause by their own
strength, and this opportunity he could never more restore to
them.—( Immense cheering.) The lion. Member having sat
down without making any motion, there were loud cries of
" Move," and " There is no motion."

The SPEAKER asked if the lion. Member had any mo-
tion to conclude with?

Mr. MACLEAN, seemingly at a loss for the nature of his
motion, after some hesitation said he should move for the pro-
duction of the papers which the Noble Lord (Palmerston) said
he would lay upon the table. Ile moved, therefore, that those
papers be now laid upon the table.

Lord PA LNI E RS.TON laid them on the table of the House
amidst cheers and a laugh.

Mr. WA RD very much regretted that lion. Members op.
polite always carefully abstained from bringing this question
forward in any tangible shape, which enabled the House to
come to a decision upon it. hear, hear.) The proper
course would be, to visit with the censure of the House those
Ministers who had neglected the interests of their country,
by laying themselves open to the charge which was to be im-
plied, at least, from the speech of the Right. Member, if
that charge were well founded ; and if it were unfounded, to
remove such an imputation from them at one-, by an expres-
sion of the sanction and approval of the House, but any such
course was always most carefully avoided.— (Hear, hear. )
Such were the tactics consequently pursued on the opposite
side of the House, whenever the affairs of Spain were brought
under its consideration. When the Noble Lord, the Mem-
ber for Hertford, brought the subject forward last session,
he concluded a speech which, though moderate in its tone,
was full of strictures on the Government, by moving for
the production of papers, to the production of which he
well knew there could be no earthly objection, inasmuch
as their contents were previously well known to the
House. The Noble Lord would excuse him for saying,
that by the adoption of this course he placed the House
in a most unfair position, compelling it either to refuse its
assent to a motion, in itself perfectly unobjectionable; or
by acceding to it, to bestow its sanction to a certain extent
on the grounds on which that motion was founded, and the
statements by which it was accompanied.--( Hear, hear.) But
the Hon. Member for Oxford was even more cautious—his
caution exceeded all precedent; he would not move for any-
thing at all, but merely placed a notice on the books, which
just served as a peg to hang a speech upon, without the slightest
notion of ever attaining any definite or specific result.—( Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Gentleman took precedence, as he (Mr.
Ward) understood, not because he was going to make a speech,
but because he was about to make a motion. The speech had,
however, concluded without any motion at all and thus he
(Mr. Ward) was deprived of a pleasure which he had promised
himself—the pleasure, if he had impugned tho conduct of his
Majesty's Government, of moving such an amendment as Would
have brought the whole subject under the consideration Of the
House,and enabled them to pronounce an opinion on it.—.
(Cheers,) He regretted that the mode of proceeding
which had been resorted to did not leave him the power
of changing the Honourable Member's field day into some-
thing like a regular discussion.--(Hear.) The real 'quest
tion at issue was; had his Majesty's Mit*tqrst tAntler the

obligation of a treaty, pursued a right. object ; and if 5°,9
.had they pursued. it in a
.right way ?—(1-lear, hear.) it
was very convenient for Hoii. Gcntlemerf to say that.
they did not impugn the treaty itself, while they impugned
every act that naturally flowed from it. It was•quite irapos-.
sable to separate the two; the House must take'tbe policy et
the alliance into consideration, before it decided to what extent
the GoVernment were justified •in acting upon its stipulations.
What was the policy of the quadruple treaty ? To give
peace and security to the people of Spain and Portugal (with
the last of which, be it recollected, England was the most in-
timately acquainted), and to afford them an opportunity of
introducing and working out those changes which they might
consider de,ii able, without the fear of foreign aggression, and
without the destruction. of a disputed accession.—(Hear.)
He maintained that the peace and welfare of England were
most intimately concerned in putting an end to the fluctuations
which had,. during the last century, prevailed in the Peninsula.-
It was with the Cortes of Spain we formed our first connection
in 1809 : we became their protectors iri 1814 when they were
.driven into exile : and many Honourable Members of that
House must recollect that it required all the power of Mr.
Canning's great talent and eloquence to restrain the tide of
popular feeling which had set in their favour in 1823. To
Portugal we were bound by equally strong ties. Wo were
bound to protect them from all foreign aggression, from all
interference in her internal affairs. Uniformity in the Penin-
sular Governments was of the utmost importance to England;

and now we were bound by the quadruple treaty, in conjunc-
tion with France, to throw the shield of our protection over the
infant liberties of both these countries. The objection of de
Hon. and Learned Member for Oxford was to the extension
which had been given to the treaty. But he (Mr. Ward)
contended that our Government had acted in the true spirit of
that treaty.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member

should not forget that by the letter of that treaty a most inl'
portant obligation was imposed upon this Government. That
treaty obliged us in case of necessity to send an armament to
the coast of Spain or Portugal, to protect either from foreign
interference in their internal affairs. Suppose then the

Russia (and the Honourable and Learned Mjriiber did not re.
gard it as a very improbable supposition) or any continents!
country had sent an army to Spain to support the cause of
Don Carlos—as France would under the terms of the quadru-
ple treaty, prevent their passage through her territories—we
should have been obliged to send a fleet to the coast of Bi!',*
cay to obstruct their landing.—(Hear, hear.) We shout°
have been committed to the whole force of our armament. _
Then with respect to the efficiency of the aid afforded under
his Gallant Friend General Evans, it should be remembered
that that gallant officer acted under the orders of Spain, and
therefore should those untoward events occur which bad been
anticipated by the Hon. and Learned Member, but of whicit
he (Mr. Ward) had not the slightest apprehension, the dis-
grace would fall, not upon England, but upon Spain herself--
(Hear, hear)—so that when we could accomplish the object at
the treaty by a less exertion of power, why should we be ca!,leti
upon to make the greater 2—( Hear, hear.) So far fror.,
in., in the unfavourable anticipation of the Hon. and Learned'
Member, he (Mr. Ward) was convinced that t'aey would
eventually fully justify the cause in which they lrad embarked.
So soon as the severity of the season should mitigated, ana
that an opportunity of distinguishing themselves was afforded,
he felt assured that these brave men mould prove themselves
worthy of the reputation acquired by their predecessors in the
Peninsula.—(Hear, hear.), The Hon. and Learned Member
opposite had attached much importance to the opinion of air.
Canning.—( Hear.) When the Hon. and Learned Member
attributed to Mr. Canning the doctrine of non-interveir„ion in
all cases, he attributed ranch more than that illustrious •
vidual professed. With respect to the feeling in favour of the
constitutional cause, he would take it on himsalf to say that!
all the influential and populous towns were in favour of it; sn
he referred with pleasure to the remittance which had arrived
in Madrid from Havannah. This was a strong proof of the
feeling existing in the colonies. Re was surprised how the
Hon. and Learned Member could assume that the conduc,
adopted by England was unjustifiable in a power which blin
signed the Quadruple Treaty. It was quite true the Govern'
ment had gone beyond the letter of that treaty._(Cbeers
from the Opposition.) These cheers he was prepared for
from Honourable Members who were opposed to tilt-, Qua-
druple Treaty, in spirit and in letter.—( Hear, hear.) 13e;
he would mention that, in acting as she had one, Englan'
was only acting in accordance with the spirit of that treat/'f
He denied that the salique law was part of the constitution O
Spain. It was introduced under the Bourbons, and the 0,19:
power that sanctioned could at any time repeal it. "-
could conceive no more unimpeachable title than that of the
Queen of Spain, sanctioned as it was by the Cortes of the;
kingdom.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member
had said that Don Carlos ought not to be irritated. 14°
' he (Mr. Ward) should take leave to observe that Don Carlos
was identified with fanaticism in Spain.—(" Oh, oh l " from
the Opposition.) It had been his (Mr. Ward's) lot to hal!
spent four years in Spain at a period when he could form •
very accurate opinion upon the subject, and he should venter°
to put his own personal experience in opposition to the °in:
formation" of the Hon. Member opposite. Don Carlos was
supporter of the inquisition in Spain ; he was opposed to tilA
slightest modification of it by Ferdinand, and lie endeavoure!
to induce his brother to revive it in more than its pristita,
odiousness, as an engine not merely of religious, but also
w
political oppression. He was therefore an individual from whom
this country had nothing to hope, ad he believed as littleo
'
fear.—( Hear, hear.) England ltad guaranteed the succession
', to the Queen of Spain, an, was proceeding prudently. but
/
efficiently to secure it ; ar.a he believed that Mr. Canning,
in the situation of tt.e Noble Lord near him, would have
adopted precisely '.ne same course. In conclusion, be.P.t
only to express nis hope, that if the Hon. and Learned Mer-...t
bar had objection to urge against the fulfilment Of_ tat
t84,-E
treat../.--as it had been fulfilled by this country_be trustee' t."--
tie would bring some intelligible and tangible motion. before
the House that would give them an opportunity of expressing
an opinion on a subject of so much importance.—(Hear.)
sd
Mr. PO ULTE R said that the treaty to which allusion b
id
been made by the Hon. Member who had just sat down, eoni.s
not be abandoned without the greatest injury to those Po T
whose interests were concerned in its Inamtenance.
great principle upon which that treaty was based, wr.s the 7,
and complete restoration of peace, -,nd the establishment ear.
constitutional Government in Pipain and Portugal.---ae,,,,,
hear.) Hon. Members tr!,ght heap censure as they no
upon those brave men had embarked in the cause of .tv,
Queen of Spain—th4-might call them Mercenaries, as, 11'0
rally speaking, 0-,ey were justified in applying the term "tuot
those. who ree,eived Mows ; but he could only observe, thin
if the sate spirit actuated the Mercenaries, who appeared,..
the rast history of Europa—the term would never have, Io
cr..trie one of reproach.—( Cheers.) In its offensive sense', vtia
term " Mercenary" was applicable to any man who wchner,
fight, no Matter in what cause, for pay. The question 000
was, would these men serve Don Carlos for pay ?---(„lf,ist
cheers.) Emphatically he said—No„—( Hear, hear.) ‘T".at
there might be two opinions with respect to the "principles by
issue—there could be but one respecting tlie atrocities No
which both bad been disg,raced.—( Hear, hear, hear.) . 5;
doubt all agreed with him in condemn.'ing these atroeitikeiro
but there were, he dared to say, many who differed front'; it
as to the causes of these atrocities. His opinien was that in
was to be traced to the long ar.iecedent despotism existing
of
Spain—the penalty to be I,aid for passing from a state at
slavery to a state of literety—a penalty, however severe,,tei,
must be paid. If Don Carlos had, as he asserted, the fe
.41
ing of the country with him, why retire into fastnesses ono
strongholds 2—( Hear.) He was playing the last stake of lb,
game of absolutism in the West of Europe, and hence
nature of the aid afforded him. But he (-Mr. Poulter)trastot
sa
he should see the spirit that was abroad in the South sPr..eell
even to the North, and find a resting place in Poland as b
as the Peninsula.—( Cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL could not allow the debate to cotril
uof
without calling attention to the real cause of the difference of
opinion existing on the subject now under the consideration.ii,
the House. The real difference was that between the pri
ciple of absolutism and that of constitutional liberty.—=(He
Yet there was not one word of that in the speech r.:l the'°
op
and Learned Member for Oxford—because the cause of 'do
Carlos was that of absolutism, and that of Christina was ti,
cause of constitutional liberty. There was something 11100
ral, too, in the alliance, formed in support of the cause of h
as
Carlos. That Prince was so much of a Catholic, that
lie
arrived at the stage which those who regard Catholicqo
superstition call Popery.—( Hear.) And yet notwithstallea
this, the most violent no-popery men in this country had ra`iita,'
round his cause. By rhis o iduct they !h 'wed, at all °ct
that their opposition was not to the abstract principle of I,ar,)
but to Popery when allied to liberal institutions.—(S
They were opposed to Popery in Ireland—not because it i,
Popery, but because it was just now wrapped up with 14r
rality. The cause of Christina, though- it was the caul, of
o:
be
free institutions, had yet been disgraced by atrocities which
was the first in that House to condemn. He was the first --,
that House to denominate Mina a monster for his atrocities
ol
and so should he speak of Zumalacareguy. He hoped a (13,1,i41r
retribution was coming, and that instead of going to Ala.",-tid
D'on Carlos would fall into the hands of his Gallant Fri to
General Evans, who, however, had too much magnauitnitP,
retaliate by putting him to death, but he would, Ile Din ‘l-.)
treat him with all the contempt of forgiveness.—( Hear, e,e3(at
He was glad the Hon. and Learned Member had not
.',°tllo
forgotten the principles of his profession as to pretend in
Don Carlos had a shadow of a legal title to the Crown of Prof
But supposing that he had a title, what kind of a friendool.
berty was Carlos to involve the country iu such scenes of bL,iOO
shed as he had done.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that the, toe!,
was come when it was the general opinion of enlighrar-enotte
that the man who would " wade through slaughter lo a throe'
was unfit to reign. He was supported in his cor,test %Os
who from ignorance were against good goverty.nent. afar
he he sat down, he could not help adverting to 'a rather snitliseae`
circumstance, which he believed was no secret—liVange.
the proceedings that were going on at ''.ne Stock Exc- ho
A number of persons at that place had undertaken to insletni
Government of the Queen money, )'out some of those pe.o
had determined " to hedge,"
money also to Don Carlos.— AO, agreed to lend a su
(liear, hear, and a laugh., 0001
understood that Don Carlos was to have a loan of 25°'rgq
to assist him in murdering British subjects ;
and if hei Te,e
to Madrid, he was to have a. large loan; but if he di"g-:t,
course the lenders would lose what they
advanced.'"%chr,'",
means they " hedged," as to the Chr.stinos loan. id 0"
gentlemen might laugh at this proceecFai but he cent'oesn
hhle,liepdc_on(siHdeerair, that it was frightful 4.huf; t;o traffic in toni
c_
however,
Hancebear.) These proceedings would cantote-
tahse longj
eacst Members
sef
pu i n
to
Oxford had of ts
that House lent their ceer sot
_Carlos. The Hon. Meath fir
read a number letters from the scene -letter
fare in Spain. He (Nlr-t'J'Connell) had also receivedld' goo'
from Vittoria—sonae fora relations of his own, who 11.
out with Generid Evar.s, which gave a very different an' sa
of the march and fight from that given by the Hen;ibeie
iaahroed Member. i-le knew the writers of swan- n'i,These
letters to be incazable of misrepresenting the truth.

letters were from persons who were remaining with General
n
s army, and who were determined to continue there and
could ht it out.--(Hear, hear.) He did not think that Don Canos
re have continued to maintain himself in the mountainous
gions where he was if there was not treason in the Christinos
camp, Even if there was, it would be an extremely difficult
task for him to succeed.—( Hear, hear.) At any rate he was
sure that the brave force under his Gallant Friend, General
Evans, would never disgrace the character of British soldiers
by sharin. in any part of the atrocities and cruelties which had
characterized the career of Don Carlos. He would only
add, if the lion. Member for Oxford had made any attempt tis
take the sense of the House on the subject, that he would
have found that Government was supported by a triumphant
majority.—( Cheers. )
Sir JOHN ELLEY was anxious to make some observa-
tions on the military operations which had taken place under
the superintendence of his Gallant Friend General Evans.
On the landing of the British Legion it Spain, they were
placed in barracks at St. Sebastian and Santander, which
places were also occupied by a numerous corps of Spanish
4-°°ll6. The first military movement in which General Evans
and his forces were engaged was a reconnoisance from St.
Sebastian. This was to be done to enable the forces to ad-
vance to Hernani, a town occupied by the Carlists. This
place was about three or four miles from St. Sebastian, and
in the road between St. Sebastian and Tolosa. After ad.
'alining a short distance to make the reconnoisance, the whole
of the forces returned to St. Sebastian, and the result of the
movement was, to leave the parties in exactly the same situa-
tions in which they were before. The next movement which
General Evans was called upon to perform was to advance to
Bilboa. At this place the troops found good lodging and
good provisions, and had ample opportunities afforded of bring-
ing themselves into a state of discipline. He understood, and
he was sorry to have to say it, that this was not done without
resorting to constant punishment, which all must regret the
necessity of, and more especially his Gallant Friend at the
bead of that corps.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) He would
just mention the nature of the punishment which it was found
necessary to inflict. A provost-marshal was appointed to
each battalion, and each of them had a surgeon, a drummer,
a corporal, and six file of men constantly to attend him. The
duty of this officer was such as to allow the exercise of almost
absolute power ; for if he found a man deviating in the least
degree from the line of duty laid down, he ordered him to be
"'zed, to be tied up, and gave him a couple of dozen lashes.
(Great laughter, and cries of " hear, hear.") This must be
admitted to be rather a strong measure ; but it might be said
that the end justified the means. At any rate, it so happened
that it was found that the troops could not be brought into a
state of discipline by any other means. After some time it was
determined to leave the British force to garrison Bilboa, and
the Spanish army, which amounted to 15,000 men, under the
orders of Gen. Espartero, were to set out for Vittoria. This
City estas only twenty miles from Bilboa, and was not more
au a two days' march. Gen. Espartero marched seven miles
on his way, when he was met by the' Carlists and driven back,
aid he was obliged to send to General Evans to come out
to 'assist these 15,000 men in making good their retreat.—
(Hear, hear.) The British force did so, but the Carlists
followed, and continued firing into Bilboa for an hour
'and a half.—( Hear.) When General Espartero set out,
lie prudently
,sent two battalions by a flatik road to
prevent the Carlists operating on his flank or rear ; when he
reiyeated, however, he forgot to send any information to those
.two bsttalions. The consequence was, that those two batta-
lions we: e obliged either to wait for the attack of the whole
earliat foi ce, or to swim the river Durango, which flows with
great awiftnos. They endeavoured to pass the river, and he
was sorry to have to add, that 1,400 of them were drowned in
the attempt. Soon after this, General Evans was ordered to
'avanee from Bilboa to Vittoria. He had not gone far, when'
be found that the Carlists bad moved from Durango and taken
tossersion of the road in which he was advancing. Did Gen.
:vans bring his men to action, and endeavour to force his
$e did
No ; he knew better.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
le did so because a general action was not his object ;_ he had
received peremptory orders to proceed to Vittoria, and not to
'ilk anything. He ,Sir John Elley) said this to disabuse the
Public • and he would add, that his Gallant Friend did not at-
tack the place and force it, because he had received positive
orders not to do so. The question then was, what was the
hest course to pursue? General Evans retrograded his force,
4_412 if he intended to march back, but after returning some dis-
'since, he turned on one side, and passed over a range of coun-
tty of the most difficult character, and the fatigues of his
,"-'''"Ps was excessive. He did this to gain a third road to Vit-
'ilk On the third day General Evans, like a good soldier,
and for which he (Sir J. Elley) gave him credit, by a forced
inareh of :15 miles, got before the Carlist forces, which had
br”n sent across the country to intercept him, and arrived at
s'nevara, which was rather a strong place, and capable of af-
lordino aeaominsalation to the troops under his command. The
soldiers were excessively fatigued, and a great number of them
aere become sick ; a;ad he understood General Evans was.
confined to his bed for
_six or seven days, from anxiety of
nil a
n'-'• After some delay !he British Legion again moved,
and gained the high -road from Burgos to Miranda de Ebro.
The Carlists then occupied one side of the Ebro, and General
Cordova came up, and the junctioo of the two armies took
Although this movement was successful, the long and
itrlizsii;h force; uing march laid the foundation of g, eat sickness in the
and, notwithstanding assertions to the con-
tras
Y • e had
dreason I-to believe that the hospiisds had been
ttowdefi --(Hear, hear.) He lamented this, because he
Was anxious that British troops should succeed in any great
enterprise; he cared not under whose command; he cared not
fOr what object.-a-( Hear, hear.) Before he made other
observations on this point he would advert to a remark made
by the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath last night.
pat Hon. Gentlefnan stated that the bodies of the Eng.
lait soldiers could alwa;s be distinguished by the marks of
'the lash on their backs. The Hon. M
t l?ember stated that he
sid not say this on his own authority, but had taken it from
wr'e anecdotes written by a sergeant, probably in some penny
publication.—( A laugh.) But he (Sir J. Elley) would ven-
talealso
d say, that if this man was a sergeant, he had never seen
lib 1- °' battle.—( Hear, hear.) He would say that a greater
rate ' °' more unfounded assertion, had never been made with
tenee to the British army. If he might speak of such an
Fumble individual as himself, he would observe that he bad
.
to several hard fought actions—(Cheers)—he had wit-
' - -se" mans an ensanguined field—and he asserted that it was
in
that that the French soldiers could distinguish the bodies
°Fir EAglishmen from those of their allies; and if from no other
eunastanee, from the fact that the first thing that the French
:"lis did., when they met the English, was to get out of the
sILaY as fast as they could.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) On
f° e ifith of s'anuary the Christino force moved from Vittoria,
er the Purpoo of attacking the Carlists. The right and
!ire roads were occupied by the Spanish and French Le-
4oL°S, and the left road was occupied by the diyvision under
„i:Peral Evans. There wssa a range of mountains on this road
,„ ,eb General Evans was to s'eeupy, and he not only sue-
i-aeued in all that he was directed do, but he did more, an al
s in 8 enabled to pass the Zamora river, and take up a position
The l6th other divisions, which
'" bad advanced on the
.
returned on the 17th, but, from some 2tra.nfLe cause, this
Evans, The
'-unistanee was not communicated to Genera._,
'esnit
n, was, that in consequence of the retirement of the rig!it
tr„ General Evans and his forces were placed in a situa- •
orthef great jeopardy, which might have resulted in the loss
lens: duty General Evans, however, retired, but not till a
Ina,. of y rendered it imperative on him to do so. He re-
batZed here some time, but was eventually necessitated to fall
read He ( Sir J. Elley) regretted to find that this affair had
os
se a powerful and very unpleasant impression on the minds
"4,,vtai of the principal officers. Indeed, those of our
laid`rs who had served in regular armies before this
eonea severe and disagreeable task to perform. Without the
period,
laceital'enee of General Evans, several Spanish officers had
no:it ved Commissions, most of them so little acquainted with
gwo matters, that they scarcely knew on which side their
_ tr should dangle.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Before
rel Evans went out, he (Sir J. Elley) told him he had
,rzi to tske with him a military chest sufficient for six months.
arise Callan!: General said a three months' chest would be
dnungh, for that when he was exhausted all he would have to-
Enwel°\"id be to Apply to the Spanish Treasury ; but he (Sir J.
anpi:'t°ld him t,:at it would be of very little use for him to
lOne,Y "1 that quarter. and so the event had shown. Not
wa,7 et: ago than last November the estimate of some battalion
I,soren in for a month's pay and allowance, amounting to
suss '; and how much did the House think the Spanish Trea-
-246/ advanced towards this sum out of the military chest ?
supply( Hear, hear, and laughter.) This was an extent of
‘erY inadequate to the purposes of the army.
Len ° onel THOMPSON said the British army in Spain la-
theirsd under many seridus disadvantages, and every one of
lies;sBste,Ps had hitherto been attended with difficulties. At
sitei'',Vll these had been experienced to a very great extent.
.
had .theee least of these disadvantages consisted in that which
Whi un. described as "the existence of a trinity of, Generals,
Was
.?„ as not a trinity in unity." The Spanish Government
fers,sugmatised for having availed itself of the assistance of
In_veign troops ; but he (Colonel Thompson) saw nothing
murrh:lregnrradinsir or disgraceful in such a proceeding than in
sizing t recourse to German legions.---( Hear, hear.)
theNo-
tba t e whole affair excited in him more surprise or anger
, aspersions which were cast upon the composition of the
the
Legion in Spain What proof had been adduced that
ZSsoisbers under General.
Evans's orders were the inferior,
Zg.sraden, and characterless men, they bad slanderously bean
ei signated None. What proof was there but that these
lisle
were not nreeisely the same who would have been en-
had _r d t. o f °l'm ten battalions of the British army if the occasion
Isen ? What 'woofs were there that the officers of that
s'egion , .
miss w were iruerior to those of the British army ? Which of
` ere inferior, and to whom ? Why then should these
gratuitous assertions be made ? As to the proceedings in res-
l'C'etro risoners, though he did not for a moment advocate
isee
.0 uelty of either party, lie could not but call to the recol-
unnolif the House, that not (slay years had passed since our
but unfortunate civil wars in Ireland, during which every gallant
death, The
man who was taken prisoner, was doomed to
_ them
example adopted by the .Spanish Generals had
porr4entitnn,im.in but too many contests, Yet there was one
which the system might have been t an end to in
Spain, by the interference of our soldiers ; butpu eatery chance
oof,. tab iist was destroyed by the ferocious and cold-blooded words
that tyrant whose every act rendered him richly deserving of
fesion'a death which it was his (Colonel Thompson's)
prayer 7 the despot might meet with.
The L'enalla MAHON bad long ago declared his opinion that
tiite raised in this eaanntry for the service of Spain was
0 inadequate to the
141 parssase. and would do no credit
~ British army, and the aveise lisssi confirmed his worst
The :rain_ qaeatiou was 5i,44 ; —Was the
of Spain supported J.7* not 1); 4 gre4 Alili?ii4Y of
nation ? If she was• Pl9.,lrAnteSl, then
8,44 Ph lit bad we to prop her up—to force . " 4,(2p the
sht;, ±4Blll:atis)ts by means of British bayonets.—( Hear • if
tilat:7_B3_, AiPPorted by q great majority of the nation, surely
'""Josity ttAci no occasion for foreign assistance to enable

them to put down a small insuirectior ary minority.—(Hear,
hear.) The course which Government hack taken on this oc-
casion was in his opinion wholly inconsistent with either Bri-
tish policy or British. honour.—e Hear, hear.) He was ready
to recognize the Quadruple Treaty, and to follow out its
obligations, but not to advance a step beyond it. He would
not have British troops to fight under any banner but that of
their King and country. The Noble Lord then proceeded
to refer to the transactions at Barcelona, which had not, he
said, been adverted to. He wished to ask the Noble Lord
opposite (Viscount Palmerston) whether Captain Parker, in
the course which he had taken on that occasion, acted on
his own responsibility, or upon instructions from home.—
(Hear.) If in the latter case, he would ask whether the
Noble Viscount would refuse to lay a copy of the insrructions
upon which Captain Parker acted upon the table of the House.
( Hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had
thought fit to attack him (Lord Mahon) on the subject of
Lord Eliot's negotiation. If anything proceeding from that
Hon. and Learned Member could surprise him, it was this;
for he (Lord Mahon) perfectly recollected that on a former
occasion when this subject was regularly broughtbefore the House
by the Hon. Member for Finsbury, the Honourable and
Learned Member was pleased to say that the explanation
made by him (Lord Mahon) was satisfactory, completely ad-
mitted all that he said, and advised the Hon. Member for
Finsbury to withdraw the subject from before the House.—
(Hear, hear.) Yet now the Hon. and Learted Member him-
self renewed the very same attack which before he admitted to
be perfectly groundless. So far as regarded the Basque pro-
vinces—so far as regarded Navarre and Biscay, the cause of
Don Carlos was connected with the privilege and freedom of
the people, and he was surprised at the apathy of the Hon.
Gentlemen opposite on the subject of those privileges, anxious
as they were to distinguish themselves as the supporters of
freedom on other occasions. In conclusion, the Noble Lord
declared that he was connected with Spain by the nearest ties,
he owed to that country the greater portion of his fortune—
even his name was derived from it, and it was but natural,
therefore, that he should take a lively interest in its welfare.
Lord PALMERSTON and Mr. DUNCOMBE rose at
the same time to address the House ; both the Hon. Members
were loudly called for, but eventually the Member for Finsbury
gave way. His Lordship was afraid when the Noble Lord op-
posite rose, that this debate was going to die a natural death ;
for though the fire was kept up pretty briskly on this (the Mi-
nisterial) side of the House, yet it was easy to see that the
ardor which had warmed Hon. Gentlemen on the other side,
was in some danger of being altogether extinguished. The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman who began this debate,
having stated that he considered it exceedingly important
to bring the subject before the House, struggled for pre-
cedence for the better part of an hour, with the Hon. Gentle-
man who wished to bring forward another question which was
adjourned to this evening, and at last prevailed, having; it must
be presumed, satisfied the House of the extreme urgency of
the motion of which he had given notice. Any one who had
seen the fervour—any one who had witnessed the greatimpa-
tience of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, Would no doubt
have imagined that the subject was either some measure into
which the Government were about rashly to embark, or some
measure of recent date, of which he was anxious to prevent the
evil consequences, by stretching forth his saying hand, and di-
recting back the Government from the imprudent course they
had entered upon.—( Hear, and a laugh.) He was supposing
that a stranger had witnessed these proceedings ; and he would
further suppose that, having learnt that the motion had refe-
rence to a treaty and Order inCouncil, he rushed to the library
of the House to see the date of the treaty, and the date on
which the Order in Council was issued. The result of such an
investigation would be the discovery that the treaty was two
years old—( Cries of " Hear, hear")—and the Order in Coun-
cil was issued, not in January last, but ' in June, 1835.
(Laughter and cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman,
then, having had ample time to reflect on the subject—the
time between the date of the order, viz., the 10th of June and
the period when Parliament was prorogued, that is, last Sep-
tember, not having been sufficiently long to enable him to
condense his ideas into a practical shape, so as to satisfy him
whether it was his duty or not to call on the House to inter-
pose—( Laughter)—after eight months' deliberation, the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman gets up with this motion, and to an-
swer a speech which in June was made by him (Lord Pal-
merston.) The deliberation of the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman at one time, and his very particular impatience at ano-
Cier, made a contrast which was undoubtedly very striking and
remarkable.—(Cheers and laughter.) The measure com-
plained of by the Hon. and Learned Gentlemen was simply a
permission given, or he should rather say, a prohibition re-
tracted—( Cries of hear, and cheers)—which a recent law had
imposed on the subjects of this country, to prevent them from
entering into a foreign service. The effect of the order in council
was simply to leave the matter as it was under the common law—
as it was before the Acts of George 11. had passed. That
order in council was merely to restore to the British people
the freedom of choice. They might stay at home if they
pleased, but it drew from them the interdict which the statute
law had interposed to prevent them from joining in a noble un-
dertaking, if that was their desire. Let him ask what were
the precedents of Elizabeth? In the time of Charles I. were
the cases merely those in which the King's subjects were free
to do as they chose ? Directly the reverse. These were
cases with which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman must be
acquainted. He must know that Queen Elizabeth sent first
to assist the Hugonots in France, and next the revolted sub-
jects. in Spain ; and not only gave her subjects permission to
engage in the war, but did that which the present Govern-
ment bad been accused of doing—she accomplished in an
indirect and underhand way what she did not choose to do.
openly. Being restrained by prudential reasons from openly
declaring war in her own name, she not only gave permission
to her subjects to engage in the war, but gave money and
other efficient aid—sent 6,000 men to assist the Hugunots,
and 6,000 men to the Low Countries, furnished them with
arms, supplied her own artillery—did, in short, not only what
had been done by the Government of which he was a Member.
in the present case, but took a more active line in the way of
interfering.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The precedent of Charles
I. was of exactly the same description. Citadels raised the
army which marched under the Marquis of Hamilton. Could
it be said, then, that there were no precedents for the mea-
sures of the present Government ? lie had heard it asserted
also that it was contrary to the laws of nations for the subjects
of one Power to fight in the country and under the banners of
another. Why, really, did the Hon. and Learned Member
suppose that the Hon. Gentlemen to whom such arguments
were addressed—
Mr, MACLEAN observed that he was misunderstood—he
he did not say what the Noble Loid was attributing to him.
Lord PALMERSTON continued—Well, then, the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman had said that such a course was con-
trary to the honour of nations and the practice of nations, and
a thing improper and deserving of the censure of the House.
—( Hear, hear.) Why, what happened at the time of the re-
vok in the Low Countries ? The army of Prince Maurice
was composed of men of all nations, whose love of freedom in-
duced them to fight in his ranks, and by their gallant conduct
secured those victories by which he was distinguished. In that
battle which was fought in Nieupont, the auxiliaries were
mainly instrumental in securing the victory., When Ostend
was taken, who were the officers who eammended the garri-
seri ? Were they not the Dutchman ; Hepburn, the Scotch-
man ; end Sir Philip Do Yere, the Englishman ? To say,
alien the seNects of one country were fighting in the ranks
and under the banners of another country, and on that ac-
count any man was jastified in denouncing suet. persons, or
declaring he would put them to death because he was inter-
fering in the affairs ofsanother eenntrv, and no foreigner had
a right to fight under any banners but his own—of that
doctrine, when propounded, he would say, that it was
false, and contrary to the stream of historical facts in every
part of Europe. , Then the Hon, and Learned Gentleman
said that the precedents were not in point—why, he was at a
loss to make cut. In the case of Queen Elizabeth, it was
English troops fighting in the Netherlands, and in this case it
was English troops fighting in Spain,—(Hear, hear hear.)
The Hon, and Learned Gentleman laid atracs on this—that
our troops were now fighting on Spanish ground, and not under
the chief command of an English officer; whereas he (Ills
Lordship) had shown them In the cases quoted, that a course
precisely similar was taken : our auxiliaries, though com-
manded by British generals, were embodied In an army the
chief command of which was vested in a foreigner. The
Hon. and LcarnedGentlemao next affirmed that he condemned
the conduct of the present Government in this matter on the
authority of the late Mr. Canning, and be referred to a speech
made by Mr. Canning, in a case as different from this as it
was possible for one case to be from another.—(Hear, bear.)
He unhesitatingly declared, that there wit not the least simi-
!erity between the entrance of the French into Episin ip 1823,
and the motives which led the English Government to de-
cline interfering then, and the circumstances now under the
consideration of the House. He thought the Government of
that day Judged wisely ; but so far from thinking that the
reasons which Induced them to take that course applied
to this ease, he was of opinion that the principles then laid
down had been acted upon by the present Government, being
the principle of assisting Spain to maintain her independence.
—(Loud cheers) —as far es possible taking care not to em-
bark beyond our means, or beyond what it would be wise to
undertake. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman reminded them
of the very wise advice which the Gallant Gentleman opposite
gave to General Evans before he left the country, which was
always to have six months' pay In advance in his chest.—( A
laugh.) The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman had shown his ta-
lents in every field of battle in which he had been engaged,
and his encounters had been many and difficult, but he must
say that the advice he gave did great and surpassing credit to
his judgment and sagacity.—( Laughter.) He much regretted
that General Evans had been unable to take that bit of advice,
but no reflection could, on that account, be cast on the Gal-
lant General. If the Spanish treasury could have afforded
the means of keeping the military chest so well replenished,
no doubt there would have been adopted every other
description of counsel which they were so glad to re-
ceive from the Gallant General. How far the present motion
of the lion. and Learned Gentleman might have the effect of
preventing him from having six months' pay in advance—how
far, by endeavouring to throw discredit on the cause, by taunt-
ing the British force and reeding them as mercenaries, by re-
presenting the contest as hopeless,ty absy
do Il.,silenteo representing
the
eot
uhmne t
ro
rymepeople
its being apathetic, and by admottie4jeig the Queen, how far it
might be thought that, by such practices, esfa4cgeo Vticulties
would be thrown in the way of our countrymen, it was not for
but toe was pertatadecl that the tone of this
him to decide;
House this night—t.,Cherriev,,and the feeling gf the public,
would not render such attempts successfol—( Great cheering)
—even if they were made. On the
,eontrary, he was con-
vincedethne.
general stud deer would be
1 tbe that at. the more the matter
a ouestion was ele,:idition,tthheesumeocredss
of
the
-% that cause
t 6515 Pttiew.--
moting the e
which ha :befit nobly undertaken ny in. ~..
ruv 11211; and Learned Gentleman considered the maasuros-,f pro-
.l-i,",:sment of the troops, as grossly impolitio ; bat one
of his reasons said appear to ti!;11 (14911 kgruuto9 rite se

Gc:nigthty as it seemed to be consiciecr by the Hon. d and Learned
ally if their
an h,ismtsoelfif.ah
tHi
ne said r nothing
ign
eounwia ill-advised
esp eei as sending
English troo w
numbers were not etrie‘t.
being forced to retreat. this -^.t. • tance
and they were liable to the dishonour of
ofillus,tration peel ion, an ins
British army had been obliged
had been referred to, in which to.. .
eht in a fog. The Hon.
to retreat, in consequence of being ewe, -main whether the fog
and Learned Gentleman, however, did not e_ The Hon. and
or the retreat made the grievance of the charge. -ere impar-
Learned Gentleman should have remembered that fogs w. _
tial.—(A laugh. ) They were not like his Majesty's Governme__
—(Laughter.) They appeared on both sides, not on one side
alone, therefore the mischance of a fog was surely no reason why
it should cover either party with dishonour. But he would appeal
to Gallant Offieers whom he saw opposite, to tell the House whe-
ther they ever went through a campaign in which none of the
troops under their command ever rctreated,—(Hear, hear)_
in which, however small the number being resisted, they were
able invariably to overcome the force opposed to them. If that
was the only case the' Honourable and Learned Gentleman was
able to make out—if his only objection was that the British troops
being exposed to a fog, were liable to a retreat, or might retreat
occasionally before a superior force—if the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman, during the eight months he had been in cogitation, had not
been able to discover any more serious charge than that—if he had
made it the subject of a resolution, he questioned if the House would
have considered it a sufficient ground on which to censure his Ma-
jesty's Government.—( A laugh.) The fog. however, was not the
only apprehension of the Hon. Gentleman, for he told them that if
Austria, and Russia, and Naples had joined Don Carlos, they would
have found themselves under the necessity of embarking in a war
with those countries. Would the Hon. Gentleman say whether
such an obligation arose out of the Order in Council, or out of the
treaty? If he said it arose out of the Order in Council, he denied
the assertion.—(.Hear, hear.) If he said it was part of the obliga-
tion created originally by treaty, that we should stand by those
Powers with which we were in alliance, undoubtedly his assertion
was true; but as he (Lord Palmerston) understood the object of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's speech. it was to show not
the impolicy of the treaty, but the impolicy of the Order in Coun-
cil, and he confessed he was at a loss to understand how any danger
of a collision with Austria, Russia, and Naples, could arise out
of the Order in Council more than from the treaty. But the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman said that one great triumph had
been achieved by the course taken, for he asserted that it had
settled a question which six Spanish had decided in one
way, and six in another. If they had been able to arrange so
knotty a dispute as that, whether they could claim the merit of be-
ing successful war-makers or not, at least they were entitled to the
merit of being successful mediators.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Gentleman said that by treaty England was bound to give arms and
succour, and France had nothing else to do but to watch her fron-
tiers, and prevent a supply passing them. It certainly did appear
that the obligation contracted by England was greater than that of
France. But when the Hon. Gentleman came to consider that
between the southern provinces of France and the northern pro-
vinces of Spain there was a great and constant commercial inter-
course, and when he considered also that, in order to execute the
engagement made by France, it had been necessary almost to put a
stop to that intercourse, the Hon. Gentleman would conceive that
the faithful and complete execution of that article was imposing on
France sacrifices far greater than those which our convention had
imposed on this country.—(Hear, bear.) He begged further to
say, that though Spain had been furnished with a considerable
quantity of arms, as would appear by the papers laid on the
table, yet the Spanish Government had undertaken to pay the
whole.—( Hear, hear.) The lion. Gentleman might in-
sinuate that there would be some doubt as to the payment
if Don Carlos were successful—( Hear, hear, and laughter)—
but as he hoped and trusted that that event was not likely to take
place, he did not himself feel any doubt as to the punctuality with
%d ila; Spain would redeem her engagement. He (Lord Palmer-
ston) said that lie did not feel much doubt upon this subject, not-
withstanding the high authority that had been produced by the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He founded his opinion not upon
any book, not upon any particular document, but upon the general
principles of human nature—on the belief of what were the feel-
ings of the Spanish people—on his conviction, with such a cause
as that of Don Carlos, and with such a cause as that of the great
majority of the Spanish nation, it was impossible that the right
cause should not prevail—(Hear)—and therefore it was that he
would not believe the success of Don Carlos was possible, until he
saw Don Carlos descent from the modest retirement of the moun-
tains in which he now sheltered himself ; and until Don Carlos was
surrounded with the acclamations of nine-tenths of the Spanish
nation, and installed in his proper place, in all the magnificence of
the Escurial.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Noble Lord had
asked whether the Captain of the Rodney acted upon a late oc-
casion in consequence of orders from his Government, and
if so, whether the instructions given would be laid upon the
table ?—( Hear, hear.) He could tell the Noble Lord that
the Captain f the Rodney acted in conformity with the
instructions given to him. The Captain of the Rodney had done
what the Government was most ready to acknowledge, anti which
they would not shrink from avowing.—( Cheers.) But if he were
asked to lay the instructions given to that Captain upon the table,
his answer should be, that it was not during the executioreof in-
structions, customary to lay upon the table instructions given to
captains, either by sea or land.—(Hear.) The great charge
made rested upon one point. The charge of the Hon. Member
rested upon this—that the Ministry had given support to the
Queen of Spain, and that the people of England had no interest
in the success of her arms. On that point he was at issue with
the Hon. and Learned Member.—( Cheers.) On that point he
was willing to rest the justification of the whole course of their pro-
ceedings on this question.—(Hear, and cheers.) If England had
no interest in the success of the Queen's arms, then undoubtedly
they had no right to conclude a treaty, and they were not justified
in issuing the order in council. But England bad an interest in
the success of that cause. And why had she an interest ? Be-
cause it was the interest of England that Spain should be free and
prosperous.—( Cheers.) Because it was for the interest of Eng-
land whether Spain was a friend or an enemy, that she should be
independent to preserve the balance of power in Europe—( Hear)
—or whether they were to look at it in the narrow view of her
being a nation trading with England, it was their interest that the
resources and the wealth of Spain should be developed, and that
Spain should receive the benefits of that Constitution which Mar-
tinez de la Rosa (and of whom the Noble Lord had spoken in such
high terms) had laboured to procure for her. It was of import-
ance to England that Spain should no longer be under such a state
of misrule as she was in the reign of Ferdinand, and to which she
would return if Don Carlos ascended the throne.—( Hear, and
cheers.) The Government was accused of meddling too much in
the affairs of other nations. He should be glad to know from the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman at what period of English history
the Government of this country had not interfered in the affairs of
other nations ? England must do so as long as she had commerce
to protect, and shores to defend.—(Cheers.) He said that they
had interfered in the affairs of Greece. He referred to their inter-
ference in that country, and that country had become free and inde-
pendent.—( Cheers.) The Greeks, who had been " pirates by sea,
and robbers by land," as they had been the other night stigmatised
with such names by the Honourable Member for Southampton,
were now settling down into the arts of peace, they were
404c:cetera:
building cities, they were founding towns, were cultivating
lands, were extending themselves in commerce, and daily
increasing in civilization, peace, and happiness.—(Long-con-
tinued cheers.) Where did the Government next• inter-
fere? In Belgium. Was Belgium worse off for their interference ?
—( Hear, and ahem) Had any man in that House been in Bel-
gium in the course of the last year, and would that person tell him
that it was not one of the most prosperous countries in Europe,
having a King of its own choice, and though being in a state of
half. peace and half war, having a large army, necessarily main-
taining a defensive force, and yet finding the means to bear the ex-
penses of the year without having recourse to a loan, and without
yet
even heavy taxation on its population? --Hear, hear,) And
these very people wise, when they belonged to one master, or ano.
ther, were regarded as the most turbulent and discontented people
in Europe, had now become a most happy and prosperous nation.
(Cheers.) They had interfered, too, with Portugal—and their in-
terference with Portugal was supposed to be much worse than what
they now did with respect to Spain. How did they find Portugal ?
They found her distracted by a civil war, and oppressed by the most
grinding tyranny—they found the flower of her nobility in exile or
in prison, property confiscated, liberty insecure, commerce
pended, industry at a stand--,they found It in the moastn
degraded state in which a nation could be placed, and in what situa-
tion was she now? Enjoying a free Constitution, with it, Queen'
of her swn choice, parties almost annihilated—(Hear)—even the
shiguelites rsmonciled to their legitimate sovereign, and they found,
in so short a period, the nation lo a course of prosperity, in which,
(r)
Hear)—.
Ito
our
ag
rua
tie trusted, she would every day increase.—(Hear,
With regard to Portugal, he would ask, had not they the same pro.
pheeies uttered that they now heard concerning Spain ?—( Hear,
and Of Donna Maria it was said, that it would
asbe l
dia
ger utterly
1.
Donna
aumnetdnap
aroct cheers,
to oi io:lie vfaaCstni
tehl e
irndtnoulg
)was supported by a band of mercenaries--
otui the
es
et
the ie7)onpolwre people--(
(Hear, and cheers)—and that her success was beyond human pos-
sibility.—(Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) They now interfered in
the
affairs of Spain, and that in a more decided and positive way
than they had for the Queen of Portugal. In the propriety of that
interference he entertained one opinion, and the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman opposite another.-(Hear, hear, and cheers. )
Sir ROBERT PEEL observed that the Hon. Member for St.
Alban's had expressed his surprise that a debate should be raised on
the subject of foreign policy, without a distinct notice respecting
the course that should be pursued. It was objected that
this course should not be pursued upon the House going into
a Committee of Supply. In the old times of the unre
formed Parliament, that was always regarded as the conve-
nient opportunity for discussing all subjects of grievances, and
calling attention to the conduct of Government, either in its fo-
reign or domestic policy, and that, too, without implying the ne-
cessity for any distinct motion.—(Hear, hear.) In the early and
best periods of Parliamentary history, Hon, Gentlemen would find
that most important discussions took place just at the very period
which was now objected to.--(Hear, hear.) They were now
about to vote away money for the ordnance estimates. If a
discussion were to take place on this subject, in the very
papers which had been placed that evening on the table, Hon.
Gentlemen would find an invitation to the discussion in which
they were then engaged.—(Hear, hear.) The papers which he
then held in his handcontained an account of the stores furnished
by the British Government to the Government of the Queen of
Spain, and the sums paid, or for the payment of which guarantees
were given. He postponed for the moment the consideration whe-
ther they were wise in giving those supplies; and part of those
supplies, he would observe, were furnished by the Government
over which he presided—(Hear)—but the amount of the supplies
was another consideration, and they were upon this point perfectly
justified in entering into the discussion of the probability of the
success of those to whom the supplies were afforded. They were,
for instance, a large number of muskets ; but he was sorry to per-
ceive that the Hon. Member for Middlesex was buried in deep re-
pose.—(Cheers and laughter. )
Mr. HUME, who had been reclining on his seat, here stood up,
and said : No, but I have been listening to your speaking to very
little purpose for this last half hour.—(Loud laughter.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL : Speaking to very little purpose for half
an hour It is quite evident that the Hon. Member has mistaken
my speech for that of the Noble Lord.—(Cheers and laughter.)
I have not been speaking for five minutes, and the other five-and-
twenty minutes, of inapplicable reasoning, must go to the credit of
the Noble Lord.--(Continued cheers and laughter.) The Right
Hon. Baronet observed, that what they-were now touching upon
were the Ordnance Estimates. He would repeat it for the Hon.
Member for Middlesex-ethe Ordnance Estimate.—( Hear, and
laughter.) He did not expect that the Hon. Gent. would pay any
ettentioo te him
here were particeiar and precise estimates, rind he Wed'
a • but
should nnderstared the peinelplee upon Won it was discussed on the subject of foreign policy, nor even that he
out any unfairness that he might call the Honourable Mem-
ber's attention to this,”that the order of the day was for
vote f
pr supply on the Ordnance gstimates,—(l-fed, and dangh
ter, ) And he would remark upon this, that this was the first
time that he had ever known of the Ordnance preced;ug the
—" Rctimates.—( Cries of " Oh !"Irons the Ministerial bone es. )
Go Soain, nothing could Pe More
with-

But as a supply was -
apeppriate or germane to the mater than this debate. 1 ne
verf'M
OO 'c 11 for it and the rune which Geverllrnent bad

c7ostAendtmwitittihngs thenund reason
that
uu thisa ndexstpreientdiptruzrie ertyas,
has
pursued was an invitation to the discussion. They found that
20,000 muskets were supplied to Spain, 10,000 carbines, 3,600
pistols, 10,000 bayonets, 3,000,000 cartridges, 900,000 pounds of
powder, and other items, the value of which (and no part has been
tirueptt whn p
aifiidalelwe'aesixt3wB6eanss7oni
est s
of four hundred thousand pound was incurred,
and that no part of it was liquidated, it was most justifiable in his
Hon. Friend that he should have brought on this discussion, even
though he had not been invited to it by the Noble Lord.—.(Hear
hear.) He confessed that the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston) did
•-• appear to hint, in the course of his speech, to have touched on
-mints at Issue. The Noble Lord, indeed, said that " the
the main k: • Ll-" and therefore not like the Government—
fogs-were . he never heard A speech which Seemed
(Laughter.) He conte e than
;a speech of the Noble
to be more the effect of " fogs
obscurity. :Thiele the Noble
bief point in di
Lord had raised, guhntdtuerescatnp
ion.—(Hear, hear, and laughter) The question, appre-
hended, was this, whether they were to interfere in the Mil con-
testss "e
from tno V. s-
• in contest of succession ?—( Hear hear.) To enter
of Spain, a
1-I—ae :odu
Lord—(laugh
duadruple Alliance
into the question involved in the policy of the
and the treaty, he was not then disposed to do ; but he would say
that, having ratified that treaty, they must perform to the letter its
• '
provisions, whatever was the Government that swayed the destinies
of this empire.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Whatever might be
the Government, it should not be finding technical points to
evade such a treaty, nor should it refuse to acquiesce in its engage-
ments by any doubts or objections.—(Hear, hear, hear,) That
treaty was recognised as the public law of Europe—they were bound
to that treaty ; they were bound in honour, a much stronger tie
than any written engagement, to fulfil that treaty,-4 Tim, hear,
and cheers.) In the fulfilment of that treaty, the Government
over which he had the honour to preside did advise that 4. part of
the arms, to which there was reference made in the ordnance sup-
plies, should be advanced to the Spanish Government, without pay-
ing for the value.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord had laid down a
principle of interference with foreign Governments much more ex-
tensive than any he had before heard promulgatecl,—,(ffear, hear,
and cheers.) For if the principle of the Noble Lord were acted
upon, it would justify the intervention of this country with the do-
mestic contests of other nations.—(Hear.) No Government, he
conceived, had a right to interfere with the affairs of another. The
Noble Lord said they had a right to interfere in the affairs At Spain.
They had carried on commerce with Spain, and the Noble Lord said it
was their interest that they should establish free Government in
Spain. Why the same objection might be made by despotic
Governments, when they saw States assuming a popular form.
The Noble Lord had stated that a reflection had been oast upon
the character of the British Legion, and upon the character of
the officers who commanded it. He was not there to say a
word in disparagement of them—whatever was the cause in
which they should be engaged, he would give them his sym-
pathy ; he was sure they would act up to their sense of duty,
and advance that cause in which they conceived the true prin-
ciples of freedom were engaged. Supposing that they failed—
supposing that sickness thinned their ranks, supposing that the
jealousy of foreign commanders impeded their gallant exertions
in that which was a common cause ; yet, he would ask, should
all these mischances be a reflection upon them ? No ; but it
should be a reflection upon those who had committed them
in this struggle, and with them committed the name of the
British nation, and the honour of the British arms.—(Hear,
hear, and cheers.) If the Quadruple Treaty required a foreign
expedition, that might be an excuse to be admitted ; but he con-
tended that there was no obligation imposed by the Quad-
ruple Treaty on this countr and by which they were bound
to recal the prohibition.—(dear.) Did the Treaty impose an
obligation by which the prerogative of the Crown was
to be exercised to repeal the Foreign Enlistment Act ?--(Hear.
hear.) If it did not, then he was at perfect liberty to question the
policy of an act which they were not bound to by treaty.—( Hear. )
He remained unconvinced that they were required by the treaty to
permit an English army to be raised not under the immediate con-
trol of the Crown ; and he remained unconvinced that such a
course, under the circumstances, was the one most advisable for
them to pursue. Were they, he would ask, to support the British
soldiers of General Evans by some more marked exertion of the
military vigour of this country ? They had begun a decided course
—they could not retrace it, and they were now in a worse position
than they ever were.—( Hear, hear.) He was no partisan of Don
Carlos ; but all he wished was, that no party in this country had
placed them in the position in which they now stood. The Noble
Lord asked them had we not interposed, and with success? The
Noble Lord boasted of having interfered in the affairs of Greece,
of Portugal, and of Belgium. The Crown of Portugal, he would
remark, was supported upon different grounds—they stood in a dif-
ferent position with regard to Portugal, than to any other country
in the world.—( Hear, hear.) They were bound to Portugal by a
special treaty, and by which they could interfere with a naval force.
It was perfectly plain that this right of interfering was different
from their interference with the domestic affairs of any other
country. But how did they interfere with Belgium ? It was said
they could interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries.
Why, they refused to interfere with Belgium.—(Cheers.) There
was a question, indeed, whether they were not bound to support
the rights of the King of Holland.; but they declined doing so,
He was sure that the Right Hon. baronet, the Member for Not-
tingham, would recollett the case of Belgium, for there an objec-
tion had been made to an expression in the King's speech with re-
spect to one of the parties. And yet it was said that they had a
right to interfere in the domestic affairs of another nation.
Lord PALMERSTON—I did not say the domestic affairs.
Sir R. PEEL—It is upon that the whole question turns.—
(Cheers from the Opposition members.) He admitted that they
were bound to repel an attack of a foreign foe. If they contracted
a defensive alliance with another country, such as Spain or Por-
tugal, they were on the ground of that defensive alliance, bound to
interpose, and take care that no foreign power should intrude and
subdue them. But that was not the ground laid down here, for no
foreign power had invaded them. IT. professed, he thought, the
principle of non-intervention—( Hear, and continued cheering from
the Opposition benches)—excepting in cases of peculiar, of over-
whelming necessity.—(Cheers.) The gravamen of the charge
there was that two parties were engaged in a civil contest, and that
they had undertook to decide the question 'whether the claim of the
Basque provinces was founded in justice or otherwise.—(Hear.)
Without having the least pretence for interfering in such a ques-
tion, they took upon themselves to determine it. There was no
country attacking Spain—where then was Spain threatened with
foreign aggression?--(.Hear.) In case she were to be ettaelsed by a
foreign power, lie would not dispute the propriety of our inter-
ference in her behalf. He must say further, that he very
much doubted. the result of this intervention. Even if
by it we succeeded in re-establishing the authority of
the Queen of Spain, it appeared to him that an establishment set-
tled thus, by means of foreign aid, could hold out but very faint
prospects of durability. He -doubted very much the propriety of
the policy of permitting a large corps of British soldiers, not being
immediately under the control of their sovereign, to enter the ser-
vice of a foreign nation. Why, let- the case be supposed that the
levy for the Queen of Spain should amount in time to 20,000 men,
that they were joined upon their foreign service by troops from
other nations, and that eventually they were victorious, and re-
turned successful to this country. In such a case, he would not
conceal from himself that he might entertain considerable alarm
from the circumstance of having within our own country different
armies, of course of the same nation, but entertaining sech (wet
rent views, as they most probably would upon row points.—
( Hear, hear.) On these general principles of foreign policy, he
should oppose the proposal made by the Noble Lord. He did not
think it neceesary to move an amendment on this occasion, but he
would beg to assert his undoubted privilege to take the opportunity
of a motion of supply, to express an opinion upon the foreign po-
licy pursued by the Government of this country for the time
being.—(Cheers.
e, MACLEAN explained that he had not said, nor intended to
say, that it was contrary to the law of nations to send troops in sup-
port of the Government of a foreign country,
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said the right Hon. Baronet, besides
endeavouring to terrify his Majesty's Ministers, the House, and the
whole country, with a picture of imprudence of their foreign policy,
and endeavouring to show how far they might be called on, by what
they had done, to interfere more deeply in the effeire of Spain, to
the great hazard of our social reign-is, had concluded by stating
that if General Evans returned to this country at the head of his
troops triumphant, they would be more dangerous to this country
than if they had been beaten.—(Hear, hear, and " No, no," from
Sir Bs Peel,) He begged the Right Hon. Baronet'si pardon,
and that of his friends around him, but he really thought he was
correct in his recollection of the passage in the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet's speech, in which after having detailed the disgrace which
the defeat of cur countrymen would bring upon the nation, veil,
tared to end his admirable speech by picturing how dangeenee wale
be the victory of General Evans, for that he wield then come
back to this country at the 444 of it Mercenary army which—
(The Right H"n, Ilaroeet was interrupted by cries of it IA oh.")
Sir R. PEEL--,I never stated that,
Sir .1, C, HOHHOUSE....WeII t at least the Hon. Baronet
said something to the same effect ; he said that General Evans
would return at the head of his army, which had been colleeted un-
der extraordinary sire 'instances, and that his so coming back would
produce, not perhaps immediate danger to the country, but an ano—
malous position of affairs, which would in some way or other dread-
fully embarrass the Government for the time being, and the peace
of the country ; and that this was an evil, whether contingent or
immediate, which it would be well to avoid, It was not
-for him
(Sir J. Hobhouse) to dispute the ralour.and the terrors of the
great General Evans—
.. Great let me call him,
For he conquered me."
--(Laughter.) And although the Right Hon. Gentleman had
made a most ingenious and edifying discourse upon the subject, he
must be permitted to say, that there was something about the Right
Hon. Gentleman's genius almost too ponderous for a joke.--(Hear,
and laughter.) He must say further, that in the discussion of this
question, the Right Hon.
.Gentleman had not treated his Noble
Friend the Secretary for the Foreign Department quite fairly,
neither had he consulted the dignity of the House, nor, if he might
be permitted to say it, of himself, by the course which he had
thought proper to take.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") It would be
recollected, that during the short time the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman and his Colleagues were in office, the
Right Honourable Gentlemana took an opportunity of stating
in that House that he had maintined the existing treaties which he
found on coming into office, and that he considered himself bound
to do so, and to follow the policy of his predecessors.—(Hear,
hear)—and he (Sir John Hobhouse) would now take the liberty
of saying, that in pursuance of this principle, the provisions of the
Quadruple Alliance might have been carried out further whilst
they were about it, by the equipment of a naval force in support of
the Queen of Spain. This had not been done, however • by so
doing, a more direct act of hostility against Don Carlos would have
been committed, and there certainly would not have been any
ground for complaining of the anomalous line of conduct now attri-
buted to this country. The Right Hon. Gentleman had made an
observation, that the Ministers of this country ought not to suffer
themselves to be diverted or called aside from what the great com-
mercial necessities and the interests of freedom demanded, by vague
and general notions of foreign policy. Now if it turned out that
the course pursued on the present occasion was conducive in the
end to the commercial advantages of this country, he presumed
the principle upon which we had acted would not be called
vague ; or if the great interests of freedom, whereof this country
was of old the great and prescriptive defender, were secured by
it, then he presumed no vagueness of principle would be attri-
buted to them.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman
then talked about intervention—he said that sometimes the present
Ministers were for intervention, and called it non-intervention ;
and sometimes they were for non-intervention, and called it inter-
vention. Now, in pursuance of this ingenious vitynco, the
Right Hon. Gentleman had fallen intq lie •
Mistakes, which
he should just wiiis to reinied hire should like, in the first
place, to refer the Right Hen. Gentleman to a notice put upon the
books a short time before the Right Hon. Gentleman wept out of
office, en the subject of the disputes between. 1.4 iiiNg of Holland
and his subjects.—(Heer ‘l9le was it put That notice upon
the booke a
Why, the ht Genileman-himielf.—(Hear,
hear. ) whet was it deel '5
d that KlOg
argHolland's subjects
were not justified in the ciiisse they hid talcer! up ? Why, the Right
Clent16111" iliFtsE" i an 4 the ellusiene to the suh,loct in the
Speech feene the Throne muter the Duke of Wellinatee •-
verument at that
- . t time, showed

.. vovera-

wits not oulT justifiable? but ion of the King of England
ano his Ministers to be, that intervention in the affairs of that coun-
t'? iAdispensable. There was ano-

their mistake of the Right Hon. Gentleman's. He said, " You
did not interfere in the case of Belgium • why did you interfere in
Spain ?" Now, he (Sir John Hobbouse) would like to ask what
was the charge that had been made against his Noble Friend, year
after year, in respect to Belgian affairs ? Why, certainly not that
he had not interfered, but that he did interfere.—(Hear, hear. )
The truth of the matter was this, whether his Noble Friend inter-
fered or did not interfere—whichever way he acted—the Right.
Hon. Gentleman and his friends must complain.—(Hear, hear. )
If his Noble Friend and his colleagues did nothing, they were told
they ought to do something ; if they did .something, they were
told that they ought to attempt more.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The
fact was, that his Noble Friend, during the few years he had held
the °lke of Secretary of State for the Foreign Department, had
had to contend with difficulties such as no Foreign Secretary had
hitherto ever had to contend with—(Hear, hear), and he must
, say further, that in his opinion his Noble Friend had come forth
from his arduous labonrs—in which certainly he had been supported
by all the native energies of his country, and also by the general
principles and feelings of his countrymen—he had come fort from those arduous duties with a more complete success than any one who had preceded him in such an office.—(Hear, hear, and
Oh, oh,) His Noble Friend had succeeded in keeping alive
and spreading the
_great flame of freedom which had marked the
character and intellect of the British people ever since we had been
a nation, through eiroomstanees of unparalleled difficulty—he had
compromised nothing of the nation's dignity, and stood clearer in
the face of his country and of surrounding nations, than arty Foreign
Secretary who had ever sat upon that bench,-4 Hear, bear, wzln 1
laughter, and cries of "Oh, oh" front the Opposition ',Jenehes'. ) I Did the Noble Lord of (Ai% whq laughed at *:;nat he had just
said., suppese 41E0 he filir John H0h1...
am) said this from any
feeling or private regar for the Noble Secretary,_( Hear, hear,
and a laugh.) He %poke upon very different grounds; Circum-
stances had brought his Noble Friend and himself to sit upon the
same bench.—(lronical cheers from the Opposition.) He would
tell this to the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Mahon, we believe)
that nothing which the Noble Lord himself could promise him,
nothing that he could offer him—no interest or patronage
that he could give him, would induce him (Sir J. Hol3bousa)
to say one word wilieb be did not in his conscience believe to
be true ;I 11114 in the thorough conviction of the truth of what
he was uttering, he again repeated his opinion—on all that
he had seen of the foreign licy Of his Noble Friend, that his
Noble Friend had acquitted himself with a greater share of
triumph than ono of els predecessors in office.—( Hear, hear.)
Affairs were now precisely in the same position as they were in
1834, when the Right Hon. Baronet and his colleagues accepted
office, and if they found no difficulty in carrying on our foreign rela-
tions as they found them then, he ;maintained that they would find
no more difficulty to-morrow in the matter if they were to be
called to the Government again.
i iMr. T. DUNCOMBE could not concur in the opinion of the case
expressed by the Noble Lord, the Member for Hertford, nor could he
allow that the predictions of the Noble Lord on this subject had
been fulfilled. The Hon. Member next coVCended that the con-
vention of Lord Eliot NA proved to be a mere delusion, and was
not adhered t by. the Carlist troops as it should be. In answer to
time who uesalaained of the reel of the Foreign Enlistment Act,
he would ask in return, what had been said by the Tories against
it in 1794, when the French enlistment Act took place ? Before
he sat down he would, with permission of the House endeavour to
call upon the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs in favour not of the
prisoners In Spain, but:of the French prisoners in the castle of Ham
he meant the unhappy Ministers of the, deposed Charles X. He had
learned with deep feelings of pain, that three or four out of these six
state prisoners were fast sinking into the grave, on account of the
damp and injurious climate to which they were exposed, added to
the mental sufferings which they necessarily endured. If this fatal
result did take place within these prison walls, it would, in his
opinion, cast an everlasting gloom and stigma upon the rejoicings of
the days of July, and upon the memory of the Barricades. Polignae
and his companions had been imprisoned now nearly six years, and
he would ask, was not that a sufficient punishment to atone for the
conduct of which they had been guilty"?
Mr. BROTHERTON rose at this period, the clock being a few
minutes after twelve, for the purpose of moving the adjournment of
the debate. The Hon. Member was received with loud cheering,
and cries of ' Adjourn."
Mr. BORTHWICK rose and said, " I shall be very unwilling
to—"

The Hon. Member's voice was then drowned in cries of " Ad-
journ, adjourn."

BROTHERTON again rose to move the adjournment of
the debate,

Mr. BORTHWICK again attempted to be heard, but was una-
ble to proceed on account of the loud cries of " Adjourn, adjourn."
The confusion here was very great, half the Members having risen
from their seats and collected round the table.
Mr. F. BARING interposed, for the purpose of having some
formal business passed. Order at length being obtained, the de-
bate was understood to have been adjourned, and the House went
into a Committee of Supply, pro forma, after which the House
resumed.

One of the Orders of the Day being moved by Lord PAL-
AIERSTON, on which it appeared likely a debate would arise—
Colonel SIBTHORP interposed, and de' red that as it had
been understood at the commencement of the session, that no de-
bateable subject should be brought on after 12 o'clock, he was re-
solved if the Hon. Member for Salford (Mr. Brotherton) did not
persist in the notice he had givon4 to move the adjournment of the
House himself every Itielhl 4t twelve o'clock.—(Hear, hear.) It
was impossible that the public business could be properly performed
after that hour,
tgixi PALAIERSTON at once withdrew his motion.
The other orders were disposed of, and the House adjourned at
half-past 12.

-•-•••••
Bath, and Military Knight Commander of the Royal Hanoverian
Gaelphic Order.

QUEEN'S-HOUSE, ST. JAMES'S PALACE, FEB. 24.
This day M. Dedel, Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipo-
tentiary from the King of the Netherlands,
had his first audience
of her Majesty :
To which he was introduced by Earl Howe, her Majesty's Lord
Chamberlain, and conducted by Sir Robert Chester, Knt., Master
of the Ceremon'es.

At the Court at St. James's the 23:1day of February; present, 914
King's Most Excellent Majesty in Council, His Majesty in Coun-
cil was this day pleased to appoint,
Henry Thomas hamberlayne, of Stoney Thorpe, Esq., to be She-
riff of the County of Warwick, in the room of Henry Cadwallader
Adams, of Ansty, Esq.

FOREIGN OFFICE, FEB. 25, ,1836.
Tt has been notified to his Majesty's Principal Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs, by his Majesty's Charge d'AffaiN,s at Caracas,
that the President of the Republic of Veaezuela has by a decree
dated the 10th of December, 1835, declared the fortress and town
of Puerto Cabello to be in a state of blockade ; and that the same will be maintained until the surrender of the force which, at that
time, occupied the castle and town of Puerto Cabello.

ST. JAMES'S PALACE, FEB. 23.
This day had audiencP, of his Majesty—
The Count de Bjernstjerna, Envoy Extraordinary ;and Minister
Plenipotentiary from the King of Sweden and Ntrway, to deliver
letters from his Sovereign; M. Van de Weyer, -Envoy Extraordi-
nary and Minister Plenipotentiary from the ‘l:ing of the Belgians, to
take leave for a short period of absence ; and M. Ded:.l, Envoy Ex-
traordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary from the King of the Ne-
therlands, to deliver his eredentiis; to which they were respectively
introduced by Lord Viscount Palmerston his Majesty's Principal
Secretary or State for Foreign Affairs, and conducted by Sir Robert
Chester, Rut., Master of the Ceremonies.

R OFFICE, FEB. 26.
15th Regiment of L Aight Dragoons—Major A. Campbell, Pay-
master of a Recruiting District, to be Paymaster, vice Leech, who
exchanges, Feb. 26.
Scots Fusilier Guards—Ensign C. T. Jones, from the 81st Re-
giment, to be Ensign and Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Glegg, who
retires, Feb. 26.
7th Regiment of Foot—Lieut. H. A. Graham, from the 75th
Regiment, to be Lieutenant, vice Nixon, appointed to the 334 Re-
giment, Feb. 26.
Bth Foot—G. L. Marshall, Gent., to ba Ensign, by purchase,
vice Harte, who retires, Feb. 26.
14th Foot—Captain A. Ormsby, from the half-pay Unattaerted:
to be Captain, vice B. V. Layard, who exchanges ; H. Coe,
Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Kerr, appointed •t, the 534
Regiment, Feb-. 26.

• ,
16th Rot—Quartermaster J. Goodfellow, frail the 38th •Ree 4.:.
ment, to be Quartermaster, vice Rodgers, who ex.ehapges, Ser 25;
33d Foot—Lieutenant W. T. Nixon, from the 7thlßeginient;
to be Lieutenant, vice M. Forbes, who retires upon half:111y caf:the
58th Regiment, Feb. 26; Ensign H. K. Erskine to.le Lieute-
nant by purchase, vice Foskey, who retires ; C. P. B. Walker,
Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Erskine, Feb. 27...„,
38th Foot—Quartermaster J. Rodgers, from the 26th .Regi-
ment, to be Quartermaster, vice Goodfellow, who exchang:,s,
Sept. 25, 1335.
47th Foot—Lieutenant W. Skipwith to be Captain, by pur-
chase, vice Elliot, who retires ; Ensign H. L. L. Kaye to ba
Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Skipwith ; G. .1. Elliott, Gout, to
be Ensign, by purchase, vice Kaye, Feb. 26.
53(1 Foot—Lieutenant E. Bold to be Captain, by purchase, vice
&got, who retires; Ensign C. Inge to be Lieutenant, by pur-
chase' vice Bond; Ensign C. H. Kerr, from the 14th Regiment
to be Ensign, vice Inge, Feb. 26. ,
58th Foot—Ensign W. H Collins to be Lieut., b 1 purchase,
vice Guthrie, who retires, Feb. 26 • Ensign and Ike; ntant 0. Gor-
man to have the rank of Lieut., Feb. 27 ; M. 1 ill, Gent., to be
Ensign, by purchase, vice Collins, Feb. 26.
60th Foot—Lieut. F. R. Palmer' from ';:ne 89t1fRegiment, to be
Lieutenant, vice Wright, who exchanr'es, Feb. 26.
64th Foot—Lieut. J. F. Kirkwoo':t to be Adjutant, vice Canavan,
who resigns the Adjutancy only, -7Ceb. 26.
67th Foot—Major W. D. Mercer, from the half pay Unat
Itched, to be Major, vice P. Johnston, who exchanges, receiving
the difference, Feb. 26,
70th Foot—Ensign W. M. Bigge ty be Lieutenant, by purchase,
p
vice Reed, promoted in the 'B4th Regiment ; Hon. T. H. Thor-
low to be Ensign by purchase, vice Bigge, Feb. 26.
75th Foot—Lieut. W. Grey, from the half-pay of the 58th Re-
giment, to be Lieuteant, vice Graham, appointed to the 7th Regi-
ment, Feb. 26.
81st Foot.—C. W. Thompson, Gent. to be Ensign, by purchase,
vice Jones, appointed to the Scots Fusilier Guards, Feb. 26.
84th Foot—Lieut. M. B. G. Reed, from the 70th Regiment, to
be Captain, by purchase, vice Pack, who retires, Feb. 26.
89th Foot—Lieut. T. Wright, from the 60th Regiment, to be
Lieutenant, vice Palmer, who exchanges, Feb. 26.
Royal Newfoundland Veteran Companies—Capt. B. Kerr, from
the half-pay Unattached, to be. Captain, vice Mackenzie, promoted.
Feb. 26.

STAFF.
Paymaster F. E. Leech, from the 15th Light Dragoons, to be
Paymaster of a Recruiting District, vice Campbell, who ex-
changes, Feb. 26.

BREVET.
Captain J. Byrne, of the 31st Regiment, to be Major in the
Army, Feb. 26.

MEMORANDUM.
The Christian names of Ensign Paget, of the 51st Regiment, are
Cecil Augustus.

Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Norfolk.
Ist or Western Regiment of Norfolk Militia.
Stratton Marsham, Esq. to be Captain vice Ives, resigned,
Feb. 2.

DECLARATION OF INSOLVENCY.
WILLIAM BULL, corn-chandler, Wdsted-street, Somers'-
town.

BANKRUPTCY SUPERSEDED.
WILLIAM CROSTON the 'younger, ainter, Torteth- ark,
near Liverpool,

BANKRUPTS.
WILLIAM TATCIIELL and SAMUEL CLARKE, flax-
dealers, Great Eastcheap, London ; March 7, and April 8, at
eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Dunn and W adtworth,
Threadneedle-street; Lackington, official-assignee, Basinghall-
street.

• RICHARD HAYS (and not Hayes, as inserted in last Tues-
day's " Gazette "), bookseller, Regent-street, March 5, at eleven,
and April 5, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Newton and
Ensor, South-square, Gray's-Inn ; Whitmore, official-assigne,
Basinghall-street.
JAMES COL 'DIAN, wine-merchant, Wellclose-square, March
8, at one, and April 8, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy.
Groom, Abchureh-lane, official-assignee ; Swan, Great Knight
Rider-street, Doctors' Commons.
JOHN SYMMONS, draper, Haverfordwest, March 8, and
April 8, at eleven, at the Castle Inn, Haverfordwest. Rees,
Haverfordwest.

JOHN SCHOLEFIELD and WILLIAM SCHOLEFIELD,
corn-millers, Mirfield, Yorkshier, March 14, at eleven, at the Royal
Hotel, Dewsbury, Yorkshire, and April 8, at two, at the Stratford
Arms Inn, Wakefield. Battye, Fisher, and Sudlow, Chancery -
lane; Rylah, Mirfield, near Dewsbury.
JOHN GOUDIE, merchant, Liverpool, March 14, at eleven,
and April 8, at three, at the Commissioners-rooms, St. James's-
square, Manchester. Sale, Manchester; Baxter, Lincoln's-inn-
fields.