The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-25 00:00:00

recent occasion when he made a statement to the House
with regard to the existing distress, he was
accused by the Hume Secretary of great exaggeration.
While they were discussing that money should he
granted they were willingly or unwillingly allowing
thousands to die in destitution. According to the re-
turn which had been made in consequence of the motion
of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Londonderry, it
appeared that the expense of sustaining the paupers indi-
vidually was, in England 31.55. lOW., in Seotlend 21. 7s.
W., and in Ireland 16s. Bd. When such facts as these
were placed befare Hoe. Members, something like an
' effect would be wrought, and the House would resolve
itself into a Committee of The whole House.—(Hear.)
Mr. MONSELL would remind the House that while
they were discussing this point no measures had been
taken to relieve the destitution in Ireland. He was quite
sure that the several Members of the Admininis-
tration were anxious to relieve the distress,
but as a Government while they were dallying, no
stay was put upon the destitution in Ireland.
From the resonate, it appeared that in Connaught and
Munster, on the 28th of April, 1848, there were in the
several workhouses 122,369 paupers, and that the
deaths in the course of one week were not less
than 1,703, or, on an averege, fourteen in every 1,000
whereas in this great metropolis, where there wes a
population approaching to two millions and a half of
souls, according to the statement made by the Poor-
law Commissioners, in the very worst week of the
year, that which ended on the 29th January, 1849,
the proportion of deaths was only five in a thousand, and
in Connaught, during the previous year, the proportion
was about the same. Seth being the case, he trusted
that the House would nut refuse to lend its immediate
attention to the subject.—(llear, hear.)
Self-. OSBORNE said that the great obstacle to the
granting this relief was the Honourable Member for
Ripon himself.—(Hear, hear.) When the grant fur
50,000/. was asked for by Government the Right Hun.
Baronet had stated his intention to vote for
the grant, provided it was not the first of
a series, but that he should decidedly op-
pose it unless it was the beginning of more compre-
hensive measures. It was then stated that 100,000/.
would be insufficient to meet the emergency, and the
84,0001. now in the hands of the Commissioners would
hardly satisfy the momentary necessity of the period. He
thought that for the sake of their own character, to ap-
peal to no other principle, they ought not to suffer
thousands thus to perish from absolute starvation.—
There were now upwards of 160,0001. owing to the
contractors to supply food, and they had determined
to forward no more food until this debt was discharged.
fie trusted, therefore, that while thousands were perish-
ing,
exist
a n e
g they would not be wasting the time of the country
inx discussionsistin an upon
extreme
degree.
—(Cheers.)
Colonel SIBITIORVE said he did not wish to inter-
ruptacknowledged to
the business of the evening, but he would like to
ask any Member who was more conversant with Ireland
than he could possibly presume to be, whether the
free trade measures had not, in a great degree, been the
cause of distress in Ireland?—(Laugjeter, and cries of
" Hear." He could feel for Irelatd, and he could
also feel for England ; ' but he had every
reason for asking that if free-trade measures
were continued, England would feel the effects. of them
just as much as Ireland had done.—(Hear.)
...pie CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER did not
think it expedient to go into the discussion upon free trade,
So far as Ireland went he thought it had contributed
yery largely
,to preservation of life in that country.—
(Loud cries of " dear, hear.") The effect of free trade
hied been to preserve the lives of a greater number
of.person's in 'lreland than could have been done
where Provisions were dearer. The Honourable
Gentleman. behind him (Mr. Scrope) had stated that
lde or lid. a day was 'sufficient to preserve the life of a
person, but that arose., from the_ importation of 'lndian
meal, which hail already preserved so many lives, in
Ireland—(hear)—and that was one of those free-
trade measures of which the Hun. Gentleman com-
plained.—(Hear, hear.) lie would not, however, pursue
that subject further.—(Hear, hear.) lie had to warn
the House not to be led away by the statements,
or he should rather say, sentiments, respect-
ing the distress which it was said now
existed, and if he wanted anything to justify such a re-
qtrest he would find it, In the admission wade by the Hon.
Member for Limerick. That Hun. Gentleman bad
stated that 860 deaths had taken place in
the Ballinasloe Union, but he now corrected
himself, and said the truth was that the 860 people were
not dead, hut were ill of fever and cholera.—(Hear:
hear.) At the early part of the session the Government
proposed a grant of 50,600/. for the preservation of IVe
until some other measure was introduced for the purpose of
making Ireland contribute its fair and equal proportion.
It was a doctrine maintained by several Irish Members
that property should contribute to the support of po.
verty. and he believed it was the universal opinion of
the Hovse, when the grant was proposed, that
it was unreasonable to expect that any further demands
could be made upon the Treasury, and that
it they were,
it was indispensable that they should look to Ireland
for the repayment of advonces made by the Govern-
ment.—(Hear, hear.) A measure for that purpose
was brought forward, and so far from u reproach being
made on the Government, he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) was accused of making sentimental speeches
and impassioned appeals to Irish Members to
contribute towards the relief of distress in
Ireland.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The opposition to
granting relict' came not from him, but from Irish Mem-
bers, and the lion. Member (Mr. John O'Connell)
voted against the Rate in Aid, againet measures for
relieving districts, and now ue turned round and
complained that he (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer was hard fit a-ted and inciiffer,,nt to
to the distress which existed.—(!fear, heir.) Ile
thought that those Irish Members who made such ap-
peals for the suffering Irish might hive accelerated
the progress of the Bill through the House.—Oleary
Now, he thought, under those circumstances, it was not
true either that Parliament had itself the means or that
Government hail not used the means, or that it was ne•
cescary at present to make any further appeal to Par-
liament for further advances, for the relief of the distress
which he was sorry to s'iy still prevailed to a great
extent in the west of Ireland. The Government would
not shrink from asking the House for a further advance
when they believed it to be necessary to mitigate the
distress, or from appealing to Parliament, if necessary,
for money on the credit of the rate in aid.
the E. B. ROCHE asked what were the real facts of
the case with ri gard to the matter of the Ballinasloe
Union, though his lion. Friend the Member for Limerick
had inadvertently misstated the number of people who
had died in the workhouse. Yet 460 or 490 people died
in one week in that werkhose—(Hear, hear)—if his
(Mr. Roche's) recollection served him. They had it
on the authority of the best medical men that those
epidemics, the cholera on the one hand and the fever on
the other, arising from the utter destitution and suffering
of the people. He must say for one, that the Noble Lord
at the head of the Governmet, and theg Chancellor of the
Exchequer had succeeded in throwing from their own
shoulders a great deal of the responsibility of that very
urgent distress. Several Hotioureble Members
posed all former grants, were now pressing upon the
Government the necessity of the
case, and calling on
them to relieve the distress in Ireland. Now was the time
for thepoverinnentcotning forward to relieve that distress;
thep bad not been able permanently or adequately to
relieve the distress of the people ,• many would have
been dead now who were not dead, if the Government
had not done the little they had done; but they had not
done what, as a Government thing, they ought to have
done; they had not preserved the lives of the people
of the country, and he said it was the first duty of
a Government to preserve the lives of the people over
whom they ruled.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore he said,
now was the time for bringing forward some comprehen-
sive measure; there never was a better opportunity than
the present
Sir JOHN YOUNG denied having attempted to
underrate the distress prevalent in Ireland. The
facts of the case were that in the Balli-
nasloe union, where great distress had prevailed, cholera
and dyssentery had visited the union, hundreds of people
had been effected by the epidemic. Some of the auxi-
liary workouses bail been changed into cholera hospitals,
end those people who had taken the cholera were driven
into those auxiliary houses. Now it was shown that the
people died in a few days after they came into the work-
house, and not from the insnfficiency of relief.—(Bear.)
He concurred svith the Noble Lord at the head of the
Government, that it was not in the power of the Go-
vernment, or of any Government, to put an end to the
state of suffering in Ireland.
Mr. ROCHE explained.
Mr. E. DENNISON remarked that it was easy to say
that a few additional thousands would put an end to the
distress in Ireland, and that the deaths of thousands
rested upon our shoulders.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
The Noble ',cod bad taken a step which every-
body must approve of; namely, saving thousands
of the people of Ireland from starving. It was
utterly impossible that the great mass of the people could
be fed save by the soil on which they had been born,
rather tban by means supplied from a distance. He
was one of those who had always advocated the
cultivation of the soil in order that the peop:e might be
enabled to support themselves.—(Hear, heat.) He
thought it could not be said that the Government had
been behindhand. lie did not think this country
would be disposed to give much more to relieve
Ireland, looking at the comparatively small
effect, and to the amount of money which he was
sorry to say had been squandered.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. REYNOLDS did not wish to blame the Govern-
ment or the House for any neglect of the people.
Nevertheless hundreds of thousands had died, or
rather were dying. and within twelve hours'
sail of the great and wealthy capital of Great
Britain and Ireland—hundreds and thousands of British
subjects were dying of starvation. Ile did not under-
stand the Honourable Member for Cork to speak in
an offensive t•pirit of the Honourable Gentleman, but
he was prepared to state that the lion. Gentleman was
underserving of such a charge, as he never saw a chair-
man evince a greater desire to sift the whole question to
the bottom. With rest), ct to Ballinasloe, it appear that
the population of the town, which was a small one,
was 4,000; and that 4,700 of the population of the
union were in the workhouse. Since a statement
he had made on a former night had been denied,
he must be permitted to say that the guardians,
whom he charged with the grossest inhumunity, passed
a resolution by which they concentrated the whole of
the diseased and famished per within the walls of
the workhouse, They said, in effect, to a destitute per-
son, twenty miles from the house, "Now, you aro af-
flicted with typhus, you shall obtain no relief except you
go into the house at a distance of twenty miles," for
the union contained an area of 2,500 square miles.
He asked the representatives of, the British people
whether they were prepared to sit quietly ou the benches
of the House of Commons while these awful slaughters of
the people in Ireland were taking place, If one life in Eng-