The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-04 00:00:00

p .
r bit to it

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the chair precisely at Twelve
o'Clock.

NEW WRIT.
On the motion of an Hort. MEMBER, it was ordered
that a new writ should issue for the election of a Knight
of the Shire for the Southern Division of the county of
Nottingham, in the room of Colonel RoHeston, who
had accepted the office of steward of the Chiltern
rinntlreds.

JEWISH DISABILITIES BILL.
Sir M. LOPES presented a petition from Torquay,
in favour of the Jewish Disabilities I:ili.
KIRKALDY HARBOUR, &c., BILL.

The House went into the consideration of the Report
of the Select Committee on the Kircaldy Harbour,
Docks, Ferry, and Petty Customs Bill.
Mr. BERNAL suggested, as an amendment, that
provision should be made in the Bill for providing and
maintaining life-boats, and mortars, and rockets, by the
Harbour Commissioners.
Colonel FERGUSON said the Board of Admiralty
had reported in favour of such a provision; but since
the Committee met the Custom House had objected to it.
The promoters were ready to- insert a provision in the
Bill for the maintenance of life-boats and rockets, if the
Board of Admiralty required it.
The amendment was then agreed to.
FUND FOR POOR-LAW OFFICERS.

An HON. MEMBER. presented a petition from Wey-
mouth in favour of a fund for superannuated poor-law
officers, in accordance with a recommendation in the
Twelfth Anna! Report of the Poor-law Commissioners.

JEWISII DISABILITIES BILL.
Sir M. LOPES resented a petition from Newton
Ferret's against the Jewish Disabilities Bill.
RAILWAY TRAVELLING ON SUNDAYS.

Mr. BOUVERIE presented a petition from Stirling
in favour of a measure of relief for clergymen seced-
ing from the Established Church; also several peti-
tions from different places in Stirlingshire against cow-
• -gelling railway companies to run trains on Sundays.
"•-• Mr. COWAN presented a petition from Haddington.
s; and other places to the same effect.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE FOR THE
HOLIDAYS.—THE COLONIES.
- • Lord J. RUSSELL moved that the House at its rising
should adjourn to Monday the 16th of April.
Mr. FIUME could not allow the House to separate for
the Easter recess without calling its attention to the state
in which the colonial governments were at the present
time. There was at the present moment iu several of
the colonies of this country contentions going on of a
most unsatisfactory nature. They had Governors against
the Legislative Council, and Legislative Councils against
Governors. Such a state of things was highly unsatis-
factory, and greatly to be deplored. He thought any
Government who would allow such a state of things to
exist in the colonies for so long a time
must have been guilty of great mismanagement at home.
If this country wished to keep its colonies it must do
Viet which would satisfy them ; it was only by the
adoption of such a course that the colonies of this
country would be preserved. Let them look at Jamaica;
what he might call the House of Peers there, had
chosen to reject the measures passed by the Assembly,
with the con,ent of the people, for the reduction of taxa-
tion. Large military establishments were kept up in
the colonies. not for she purpose of protecting them, but to
hoop up misrule the; e. The House was now about to
separate for the Easter recess, and before they met again
a mail would be seta out to the West Indies, and what
he wanted to know was, what was to be done with De-
merara and several other of the colonies of this country
there. Notwithstanding all the representations widen,
bad been so industriously made of the discontent in the
C,nadas, it was evident that in no colony uneer the
• British Crown was there a greater state of tranquillity
than that which prevailed there. By a newspaper re•
eeteed only the other day, and which bore the date of
February 27, it appeared that the discussion upon grant-
itig allowances for the losses sustained during the
rebellion had been terminated by a division
- which the numbers appeared to be sixty-seven against.
- five for granting remuneration to the sufferers. So that
th -y had here a practical proof of the adhesion of the
colonists to the British Crown. He was ready to give all
praise to the Governor-General, Lord Elgin, for the
temper, energy, and judgment which he had displayed.
But although so much might be said of Canada, what
was the report that was to be made with regard to the
fealing and position of Demerara, Ceylon, and Jamaica.
All the colonies had more or less causes for discontent
with the mother country, and he trusted at least that if
he got no satisfactory reply to this portion of his com-
plaint, he should at any rate elicit from the Government
something of their intention with regard to these depen.
&twits. Every mail was likely to bring important in •
tellieence, and he should therefore move that,. instead
of-neglecting such important business so long, they-
' should adjourn to the 14th instead of the 19th instant.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the theme upon
which, the Honourable Gentleman had just dilated was
. an old one, and that nothing very novel laid been adduced
on the present occasion to vivify the staleness of his oto

:841rvations. F, r the test teu :years, at least, the Hon.
..:0-entleinan had been in the habit ut stating the supposed
discontent i)f the colonies, and yet., by his own admission,
Canada, one of the Brea est and most important of those

-.colonies, was now in so high a state of loyal adhesion
- for slot British Crown, that thPre had been a division of
--,Sfsityseven against five for granting a recompense to
th,)so who twit suffered either in person or property
• 'duriilr, the rebellion. Ile might remind the Hon.
IC.Tetitteman that ten years ago he had used languna
which was much more calculated to excite rebellion than
'to *mote a spirit of peaceable submi.sion to the Go-

IWrriliv:nt among the pec,ple. lie (Lord John Russell)
• :bud -proposed the fusion of the two Canadas into one
province, and he had been very carefully remonstrated
- by the Hon. Gentleman against proceeding in,
. Yvhar-ble conceived to be so, unwise and dangerous a course.
Het bad boon reminded of the conduct of Lord North,
aid had been told that just az the measures of that No-
bleman had led t, the disruption of the United States
from the British Crown, so would hia own measure lead
to a similar consequence in the case of Canada. Yet
ell he se predictions had been falsified, and by the Hon.

Gt•utle:r•ari's own admission, Canada never wa; in a state
of r 4 peaceable and loyal contentment than at the pre-
tivnt The Noble Lord then went through the

cus•.s of New Zealand, New Brunswick, Nova geotia,
awl the Cope of Good Hope, praising the late Go-
vornincnt, and especially Lord Stanley, for the appoint-
_

of Captain Grey -as Governor of New Zea.land
. .

ritd s ruing that he himielf had first made him the Presi-
th:nt, ut a subordinate dependency, in cumicquenee of the

e,:;.zy which te had displayed in his survey of Western
Ausirali:i. In the case of the Gape of Good Hope, Sir
H. Smith, had been recommended to the Crown by Lord
they. whom the 11,,n. Gentleman had so much con-

derdned, and 3et by universal declaration there was nt

man so fi!t;rl by ability, experience and energy
p,st which he occupied.—(Hear, - hear.).
With regard to New South Wales and Van Diemen's
Land he did nut think it could be said there was any
di,c,ntent prevailing in those colonies. If that
was not • the case, let the Meuse consider that there ere
forty three c9lunies untlcr the British Crown, with vari-
ous insti,utiuns inileritt d from different countries, with
which it roust ho always
...a matter of difficulty to deal.

He would at,lc the Hon. Gentleman to name to him any
other for y- three colonies similarly situated; and he
ould defy him to name forty •three states so circum-
stnt,ced., anti toy sar• that every one of those
turfy• titree bta tus, with their constitutions repro-

renting almost every form of government,
d,spotie and otherwise, gave perfect satisfaction
at present--(llear, hear.) He thought the Hon. Gen-
tleman would find a great deal of difficulty in doing
_ _

that. Nuw, there were colonies, he (Lord J. Russell:
would riot deny, in which there was a good deal of dis

sgtis`'actiur., but when the Hon. Gentleman referred to the
cause of that dissatisfaction, he thought he could hardly
lay it to the charge of the Colonial Secretary. Be
ant the colonies concerned in the production of
It would be in the recollection of the House

SUglr.

that two Acts were passed regulating the production of

foreign sugar ; whether these Acts were wise or other-

wise they were not the acts of the Colonial Secretary,
hut of the Parli.mont of this country —(ilear hear.

With I, gard to what the Hon. Genilena;,n had said

with respect t.) the colony of British Guiana,
it ought to bo remembered, that early in this session a
Sleet Committee had been appointed to inquire into the
afftirs c,f that colony. That Committee was now pro-
eet ding with that it.quiry, and he (Lord J. Russell) did
not think it would be advisable, in the midst of that in-
quiry, to decide the question without knowing what evi-
dence had been taken before the Committee, and with
out knowing the result of their deliberations. The Hon.
Gentlemen had represented that Lord Grey would not
allow the colony of British Guiana to make any claim
on the civil list. Now that was not the
ground taken by Lord Grey. Lord Grey said, let
reductions be made in the civil list, but let them be made
consistently with the faith established between the Crown
and the colony. In 1834 the colonists voluntarily gave
a civil list, which was to subsisti until Inl. Those who
held office under that ci • list held it under an Act of
the Colonial Legislature civil
one hand, and of the
Crown on the other. Lord Grey
proper or fair for the Legislature,Provinciaelyicl
13utihoe
it would not be
authority, to disturb and put aside thati nui
ot its
oonwrn_
silo objection that Lord Grey made. That was
shle Gentleman spoke of that Legislature
it was a vpular Legislature. Now, the lacngis,:tslr Ite
in British Guiana, so far as it wa3
Legislature, wts elected by a very small constituency,
and did not by any means represent the er,i,,,-:
(Cries of •• lif.ar, hear.") lie (Load John Ru-..
sAlt) ha I :always been of opinion, and was still of
4pinion, that the; e ought to be a more popular repro st.n-
t won in that colony, and that the prestnt Council,

. - -,
which dways pretended that it represeLted thg colon),
iiit i of n-pr,sent the ;mnder opinion of the colony,—
(-}l..ar, hear.) Now, therefore, the whole case of the
.1-Ico. Gentleman, of there being general discontent in

tlie:colonies, meant this—that, I;itii regard to the sugar
eolbnies, there had been effected by Acts of Parliament

well changes as to cause very great difficulties.
Tire Colonial Secretary did not, of his own authority,
make those changes.—(Hear, hear)—but he had to deal
with them; and be (Lord John Russell) believed that so
ter frOar requiring control on his part, the Colonial
Settretary deserved the utmost assistance from him in
getting out of those difficulties. The House being only
atijourned,'after to-day, until the 16th instant, he did
not think it was necessary now for him to say more
on this matter. He did not think the scheme of popular
representation was applicable everywhere. The
Ronal* able Gentleman said every colony should

- ....,.•
S

be governed by popular representation, and
he (Lord John Russell) agreed with him, as
a general proposition, that there ought to be, wher-
ever they had a British colony and a population of
British descent, a popular representation. He believed
that it was far better that the colonists themselves
hould look into their own concerns, and have their own
opinions with regard to their own finances; and their
own wrongs were likely to be a great deal better re-
dressed by themselves than by any Colonial Secretary,
whether it were Lord Grey or anybody else in this
country. —(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BERNAL said it was not his intention to oppose
the question of adjournment; and although he was not
prepared to say that every colony within the cycle of
43, was in a state of discontent, and that the Colonial
Secretary of the day was chargeable with that dis-
content, yet he could not disguise from himself
that those sugar colonies to which his Hon. Friend ad-
verted were in a state which it was painful to reflect
upon, and painful to every member of the British Legis
lature in the colony. Taking the colony of Jamaica, be
knew at that moment, without travelling into the reasons
or facts with which he was acquainted, that that colony,
with respect to its financial and statistical condition, Wa3
in a most deplorable state.
GRAND JURIES (IRELAND).
Sir W. SOMERVILLE, in answer to a question from
Mr. O'Fiaherty, said that he hoped shortly after Easter
to be able to bring in a measure with respect to the
grand jury system in Ireland.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

It was then agreed that the House at its rising should
adjourn until Monday, the 16th of April.
ELECTORAL REFORM.

Mr. HUME gave notice that, on the Ist of May, he
would move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the na-
tional representtition by extending the elective fran
chise, by taking the votes of electors by ballot, and by
limiting the duration of Parliament to three years.
RATE IN AID BILL.
_ _ _

Mr. S. CRAWFORD gave notice, that when the
House went into Committee upon the Rate in Aid Bill,
he should move the insertion of a clause for the purpose
of constituting a National Representative Board to di.
rect the disposal of the amounts levied.
DEATHS FROM FIRE.
Mr. WYLD gave notice that on the Ist of May be
would ask for leave to bring in a Bill (as we understood)
to explain and amend the laws relating to inquests upon
persons dying from fire.
WORKING CLASSES.

Mr. THORNELY, in the absence of an lion. Member,
gave notice of a motion for the appointment of a stand•
ing Committee to consider and to report from time to
time upon the best means of improving the condition of
the working classes.
PETITION OF MR. HOULDSWORTII.

Sir J. Y.ARDE BULLER postponed until the 20th
inst. the motion which stood on the paper to-day relative
to the petition of Mr. Hould.worth, as to his invention for
cooling the engine-rooms of steam-vessels.
. COURTS OF EQUITY.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY gave notice that on the 17th
inst. be should ask whether it was the intention of the
Committee which was appointed to enquire respecting
the fees of the Court of Equity in this country, to make
any report to the House.
CROWN PROSECUTIONS (IRELAND).
Mr. KEOGH asked the Right Hon. the Secretary for
Ireland whether the Government would lay on the table
of the House the letter of instructions of the Irish At-
torney-General to the different Crown solicitors in Ire-
land, and also whether they would lay before the
House the address of the grand jury of the county
of Sligo relative to the Crown prosecutions in the west
of Ireland?
Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE said, if the Honour-
able Member would give notice of his question, he would
then ba prepared to answer it; but at present he could
not give him the information he required.
Mr. KEOGH then gave notice, that on the lst May
next he should call the attention of the House to the
management of the Crown prosecutions in Ireland, pa-
ticularly with regard to the expenditure incurred by
them.

SUNDAY RAILWAY TRAVELLING, &c.
Mr. COWAN gave notice that on the second read

of the Bill brought in by Mr. Locke, relative to
travelling upon railways upon the Sabbath, he should
move that it be read a second time that day six months;
he also gave notice that soon after Easter he would ask
. the Noble Lord at the head of the Government whether
he would lay on the table of the House the report o
the Commission appointed to inquire into the annuity.
tax of Edinburgh and Montrose, and whether it wa4
the intention of the Government to take any proceed-
ings with reference to that report.
ATTACHMENT COURT OF RECORD (IRE-
LAND) BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of this Bill,
Mr. KEOGH said he• concurred in the general
principle of the Bill, but as it abolished the
process of attachment altogether, it would have
the effect of removing from all those towns
where the process existed an officer called the Marshal,
who was paid by a fee upon each attachment, to whom
no compensation was given by the Bill. The Bill, he
thought, would be altogether inoperative, aid should
not receive the sanction of the House unless
some provision was made for that officer.
He would suggest that the same fees upon the processes
to be issued under this Bill to the Marshal of the Bo-
rough Court should still be paid to that functionary, if
no other means could be devised to prevent that officer
being deprived of his office.
Mr. GROGAN had received a letter from the
Learned Recorder of this court, and while he approved
of the principle of the Bill, ho would suggest that the
second reading should be postponed till after Easter, to
admit of the Marshal's case being taken into con-
sideration.
Mr. REYNOLDS was happy to perceive that the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Athlone
and his Honourable Colleague approved of the principle
of this Bill, bat they seemed to object to it because
it did not provide compensation fur a particular
officer. Now, although he was exceeding'y
anxious to carry the Bill because it was
demanded by the universal voice of the capital of Ire-
land he should be unwilling to inflict any injustice upon
any party entitled to compensation.—(Hear, hear.) He
thought, however, the Bill might be read a se-
cond time now.— and that a clause might be
proposed in Committee to give compensation
where it was justly due, but in preparing the Bill he
thought he was imperatively bound to explain to the
House what it was he proposed to do. He called upon
the House to apply a remedy to a crying and gigantic
evil, let him remind the House that -
the city of _ Dublin ' there was a

court

' of Record, called the Borough Court. Before the reform
of the Irish Corporation Law, that Court was known by
the name of the Sheriffs' Court of the County of' Dublin,
but by the 18th section of the Irish Municipal Act, the
• powers of that court were transferred to the
Recorder's Court in that city.—(Hear.) And what
' was the process of that court? The process was
this. • If any person demanded a debt of another person
he might make an affidavit before the Loi d Mayor of
the city of Dublin, or the Recorder, to the following
effect; but he would only read the important
part of the affidavit :—•• And the defendant
maketh oath, and saitb, that the said John
Doe resides within the jurisdiction u of this court,
that the deponent is apprehensive that such debt is in
thtager of being lost unless the process of the court be
issued to distrain the goods of the said John Doe.
thatending
01847,r Recorderd 11 fur
at)h,
oartt
Ihd,e9tuhBr
ei4nt,hgmnr euatehkmeibnyteg•
three
rtaheor
()est
He found, by a Parliamentary paper which he
geld ilnB4sl,"lB4h6a,adand
yaineadrasywitass amoald, ebebfoefroerethethLe
total of 2,285, and he found that in these affidavits were
included debts under 51., 28 before the Recorder, 211
before the Lord Mayor; under 101., before the Recorder
46, before the Lord Mayor 279; under 15/, before
the Recorder 42, before the Lord Major 257;
under 20/. before the Recorder 31; before the Lord
Mayor 182, making 1,078 affidavits under 20/. a-year,
upon which attachment had been issued.— (Hear.) .N.,w
what was the nature of this attachment? Why, it was
competent for any man in the city of Dublin, no matter
whether bumble or rich, to go before the Recorder or the
Lord Mayor and swear that any citizen owes him money,
no matter how large in amount, as the debts bad varied
from 51. to 1,2001, and upon payment of a fee
of Is. 6d. to the Lord Mayor, and 6d. to the
Marshal, an attachment issued. The first notice
the defendant had of it was the seizure of
his goods in the presence of the bailiff, in his
shop or house, and by the 181st section of the
Act, it was provided that in all cases where goods
were seized under this process, the defendant
should produce two solvent securities of the city
of Dublin who should swear that they were
respectively worth double the amount of the debt for
which the attachment was marked. The House would
perceive that the defendant was not compelled to put in
personal bail, but he was compelled to bail the
debt, so that, in point of fact, the attachment
and affidavit had all the force of a judg-
ment of a superior court. Let him just put a case—
a pauper walking the streets might make an affidavit that
the most respectable merchant in the City of Dublin was
indebted to him to the amount of 100,0001. The defendant
had no notice of the affidavit, and his gocds were seized to
the amount of 100,0001, which could not be released until
he produced two sureties who would swear that they were
worth 100,0001. each.—(Hear.) Such a mischievous ma-
chine as that in existence in a mercantile city must have
a most destructive effect on commerce. He would mention
a ease that bad actually occurred of this sort-4A professional
gentleman who occupied a house in one of the best
squares in Dublin, went on the continent, leaving two
servants in charge of his house. In his absence a man
sized;it t h a t
the h e owed
ser-
vants
whihmo hsa
od bot e nahnias
kuo.w not what to do, and the goods were
servanthis goodsn3a d e awne raeffi dae
shlil,,u.:l,h,eaadn,sttliatkhs:obnu,ttnhaetbtapreioakdrugb:ec!entleman returned he found his
• t" al of furniture.—(Hear, hear.)
to examine the return so far as
it related to cost,
thanoe found per.cliture of no less rm.!.
tiny miLtht havomb
Now hearing in • 3l3l.had been incu
lere. thus
recoveredall th irnsi en receiving
debtsth cn veirle3B4us;:dl eacrno2ueOxr
t
at a cot of ss. 9d. each
them a
:ioliat the uJi.le amount of
t3h4asnl. 8w1.7w1 inut
hhe involvedfaovuen that' outk nor the 2,285 cases be
expenditure of more
ghaloyhaepoved of
had already referred to, 1,076
begged to
under 201—(Hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL
Lutindoinhei ere for debts
the principle of the Bill;
state that his Hon. Friend who had introduced t
not expect that the Government would proposet must
any
compensation to the officer for the loss of his office if
the Bill passed. He could not see why amendments in
the law should be clogged by giving
.compensation ;
parties who were not entitled to it.

Mr. SADLIER supported the second reading of
Bill.

The Bill was then read a ie., time and ordered to
he committed chi.; day three
PASSENGERS BILL.
_ _

On the motion being put for the second reading of
this Bill, . •
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said, that though ready to
approve of the Bill generally, he yet thought that it was
open to much improvement which might be effected in
Committee.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL suggested that a clause should
be introduced into the Bill for the protection and sup
port of deck passengers.
Mr. MONSELL trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Under Secretary for the Colonies would pursue the
same course as that which had been observed during the
last year with respect to the Bill then passed. That was
clearly intended to be a temporary measure. This was
a matter which affected not less than 250,000 of their
fellow-subjects every year, and the better plan would be
to refer the Bill to a Select Committee up stairs. There
were two points to which he thought the Com•
mittee ought particularly,to apply themselves—these were
the dietary and the appointment ol surgeons. He thought
that a great improvement might be made in the former,
and that if the surgeons were appointed by the Govern-
ment Commissioner there would be a far greater security
for the passengers than at present existed. But these
points could be better attended to in Committee, and he
trusted, therefore, that it would be referred to one up
stairs.

Mr. FOSTER agreed in the main with the observa-
tions of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down.
Col. DUNNE conceived that the Act of last year had
worked exceedingly well, and the dietary in the present
Bill was an improvement upon the list in that.
Mr. H. HERBERT said that he had been on the Com-
mittee last year, and it was not until after a very long
discussion that the details of the Bill had been decided
upon.

Mr. HUME conceived that the Bill was far too long,
and the details too numerous. From the letters which
he was receiving from time to time from abroad he
found that this was a great evil. There was
a Committee sitting in New York, a portion of whom
always went down to an emigrant ship when she arrived
in order to investigate the state of the passengers befUre
they landed, and those gentlemen had represented that
the directions of the Act wero so numerous that thiey
only served to create contusion and served no good end
whatever. He should therefore recommend that the
Bill should be shortened as much as possible.
Mr. HAWES said the Bill itself, which he had the
honour to ask the House to read a second time, was a
general consolidation Bill. There were in it many details
contained in former Acts, but it was not a new en,-
ment at all.—(Hear, hear.) There were some
important alterations undoubtedly. There wns
one relating to the dietary of emigrants.
The evidence which they had received from the agents
abroad was of such a character as decidedly to justify lin
increase to the dietary, and it went to show that whereVer
it had been increased it had operated most beneficially
on the emigrants, as respected their obtaining employ-
ment and sustaining that employment. The dietary new
proposed, however, was not what was called a full dietaiy.
The Hon. Member for Montrose had objected to tht#e
details being stated in an Act of Parliament; but it wits
most important that all parties connected with the ship-
ping and landed interests, and engaged in promoting
emigration, should know what the law really was
upon that point—(Hear, hear)—and he (Mr.
Hawes) thought it far better to have the dietary
stated in the Act of Parliament. Another Hon. Member
had stated that it would be expedient to refer the Bill to
a Committee. He (Mr. Hawes) should.oot like to pledge
himself to take that course. He fully admitted that the
Committee of last year had been most useful; but lie
thought the subject was fully discussed and considered,
and that the bearing of the evidence laid before the Com-
mittee rather showed that some increase of the dietary
would be expedient than otherwise. He would not,
however, undertake to say at that moment that he would
object going into Committee ; he would rather reserve
that point. The suggestion of the Honourable Baronet
opposite, as to extending the Bill to vessels
carrying emigrants from one country to another,
that hardly came within the provisions of this
Bill.—(hear, hear.) He (Mr. Hawes) thought a very'
different regulation was necessary, and therefore to in-
clude the whole coasting trade in the Bill would be
highly objectionable. Another objection had been made
by the Hon. Member far Montrose, who thought it wais
desirable to compel the agents abroad to afford to emi-
grants landing opportunities of hearing complaints ih
order to their being redressed. Now, that was done
already. His friend would find in the paper before the
House various communications showing that the cord-
plaints of the emigrants were settled by the ordinary
tribunals under the Passengers' Act. He thought the
new regulations of the Passengers' Act were still genee
rally must beneficial, though some of them might bi
objectionable in detail. Reserving his opinion as tb
whether this Bill should be referred to a Committee,
he hoped- the House would now agree to th
second reading of the Bill.
Major BLACKALL thought the matter of the dietary
would be much better settled by a Select Committe
than by the House. He would not say there ought.to
a difference between the dietary of an English and an Irish
emigrant; but it would be a hard case if the House lai
down a dietary, and insisted on the emigrant conformin
to that dietary, whether he could of and it or not, an
thereby raising the price of his passage, which some}
times resulted in an emigrant's leaving his family behind
him, which to an Irishman was peculiarly painful.lt woul
be a general disappointment to many of the Irish peopl
who during the winter had been laying by evory farthin
that they could scrape together for the purpose of emi
grating in the spring, if, by an enactment for raising th
dietary to a scale suitable to the standard of living of th
English emigrant, the price of their passage should bi
raised to a degree which would render it necessary that
they should have recourse to the painful expedient of
leaving their families behind them.
The Bill was then read a second time.
FRIENDLY SOCIETIES' BILL.

Mr. SOTHERON, in moving the second reading o
this Bill, said that in ors? :r to give greater security t
friendly societies, it was required by the Bill that th
tables and rules of each should be certified by a compe
teat authority previous to registration. By arecent Ac
it was provided that every five years a valuation of the as
sets and liabilities of each society should be drawn up an
sent to the registrar, but there was no provision that end
statement should be made by a competent person; and, id
reality, the Act had, so far as that was concerned, becom
almost nugatory.—(Hear.) He had introduced certai
words into this Bill which required the assets and liabi
fides to be made by an actuary of five years' standing
and registered, as before, every five years. He had
directed that the actuary should be remunerated for the
labour according to the number of members in the so-
ciety, viz., one guinea, where the number did not exceed
200; between 200 and 400, two guineas; between 400
and 700, three guineas ; between 700 and 1,000, feu
guineas ; between 1,000 and 1,500, five guineas ; and
'i
an extra half guinea for every five hundred
members. He thought that was not too much
for giving to members the means of ascertaining the sol-
vency of the societies to which they belonged. He re-
quired, besides, that a return should be made every year
by each society, for the purpose of enabling the
registrar to collect a great deal of most important'
information with reference to friendly societies. It'
was not generally known that a very large por-
tion of the community were subscribers in one,
shape or another to friendly and other societies. Thel
Bill, trifling as it might seem, would atfslct not less than;
34,200 societies, the members of which, as far as he had:
been able to ascertain, exceeded four millions, and their'
total revenue, which consisted fur the most part of the hard
earned savings of the poor man, exceeded six millions of
money. He thought it must be allowed that such
such ties deserved the attention of Parliament.—(Hear.)
It deserved their attention more this year than any
other, in consequence of what had happened with re-
spect to some savings' banks, and they ought
to take the best means in their power to provide
mwtou ofld b( iurraiawli
some security for the paor man who had invested his
savings in tin se societies. The Attorney- General had
intimated that he would take that odyinpportunity of rem.-
money,
the
and evils i
that
arisingat Ri g t from
Ilea.
the Gentleman
a yen
up a clause for this purpose he would be happy to sup-
port it.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he would en-
deavour to engraft some provision into the Bill with re-
spect to the temptations held out by burial societies, and
would introduce other clauses, so as to make the whole
a perfect measure.
Mr. R. PALMER thought that the present situ-
ation of Odd Fellows' societies was a matter of
great importance and called for the interference
of the House, because they had at their disposal
a large amount of property in their possession
belonging to the industrious classes, which was
almost placed beyond the reach of legal protection. It
any fraud was committed in the disposal of the funds,
no possible remedy at law or equity could be resorted
to. In the Manchester Union of Odd Fellows alone
there were no less than 264,000 persons; and there were
thousands of similar societies in England and Scotland,
which also embraced a great number of members and a
considerable amount of property. Last year a great
number of the members expressed a wish to be
placed under the operations of the law, but
though a Bill was introduced for that purpose, it was
not proceeded with, in consequence of the members not
being able to agree among themselves. He, however,
thought that it was the business of the House to see
that parties had some legal mode of enforcing their
rights with respect to property placed in the bands of
these socit ties.—(Hear, hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it was not his in-
tention to introduce any provision with respect to Odd
Fellows' societies into this Bill. A Bill was introduced
last session into the House of Lords on the subject of
Odd Fellows' societies, and the Government were
desirous of conceding any measure which it might
be thought necessary to pass ; but, as the
Honourable Member had stated, it was not
Proceeded with, because the parties could nut agree
among themselves. He objected to these societies on

- ... __........ .....„
two ground,—first, because they had secret sigra;.. and
secondly, in cause they had corresponding societies,
whicb:w4 re,contr2ry to the Corresponding Societies' Act.
The societies were willing to give up their secret signs,
but not their corresponding branches, and • the Bill tell

through. Government, however, were very desirous that
these societies should be legalised, and they were quite
ready to adopt any practicable proposal on the subject.
Mr. BROTHERTON said the observations of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down
Were woe, by of the deepest consideration, because it was
trefore glad that this
(t'athe utmost importance that friendly societies
should be put on a safe footing. At present
there was no law to prevent defalcations, 'and he
introduced. It would prove no doumbeta s
veryure useful,h ad
b ebuten
he trusted the }lon. Gentleman whohad c h
a
wAild not render it inoperative by encumbering
berinrge gitolvfithit