The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-17 00:00:00

eereen to reeve yermanent in Their results.—(Hesa
mars) Instead of those measures, they had nothing bat
a Committee, which was merely a make-shift wheti the
time- for . action had arrived. The agriculture of the
country was destroyed, and there should not now be any
imp- elements ititerposed to it. revival. What Ireland
requ:reil was the re-establishment of healthy agricul-
turist re lations. -There were three impediments to her
agricultural improvements :—lesecurity Or life; tlie bur-
den of local texation,:and the difficulties and expense in
the way of the transfer of property. Each of those was
in process of gradual diminution: The first crime wee
disappearing with the inducement to commit it—namely
evictions and depopulation, both of which had been car-
dto the utmost extent. The burden of local taxation
had been committed to the consideration of a Select
Coniteittee, and he should not venture to anticpate their
report ; but he certainly would feel surprised if they
did not devise some system by which the idle and indus-
trious would no longer be classed together. With re-
spect to the difficulties in the way of the transfer of land,
the Act of last sesAen for Facilitating the Sale of En-
cumbered Esti tes was a failure ;but, even if it had been
the most perfect measure, it could not, under the circum-
stances of the country, have been operative up to the
present time. The want of capital was one obstacle to
its success. To carry out the provisions of that Act it
was necessary that there should be a party willing to
sell and another to buy ; but, in the present state
of the country, there was, he conceived, few
who would have any great anxiety -to become
Irish proprietors. If, however, they removed the bur-
den of those rates from the property of Ireland, they
would disentangle that law from the difficulties which
surrounded it, and that, combined with other improve-
ments, would have the effect of making the Act-opera-
tive. They might also make a healthy .additions to the
system—for if proprietors were no longer terrified by
those rates a step in advance might be taken jn the for-
mation of small estates.—(Hear, hear.) Tee.re were
many men not able to purchase extensive este see who,
if these were broken down, would readily beconae pur-
chasers of small portions of them; and were that: .seine.
a class of proprietors would be formed-who would be' -4
immense benefit to the country. Holding these views,
he was inclined to give his support to the measure. Ire
did it upon no principle higher than that on which he
would relieve a beggar, a dying beggar in the street. He
might be told by political economists that he was wrong;
that while he relieved the mendicant he oppressed so-
ciety. But there were occasions when there was more
virtue in the suspension of a law than in its rigid en-
forcement; and if now he violated one law, he did so in
obedience to another, to which he owed a more implicit
submission.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MONSELL begged to thank
.the Hon. Gentle-
man for the kindliness of tone which pervaded his
speech.—(Hear, hear.) The amendment of the. Hon.
Member for Stroud (Mr. P. Scrope) might be:disposed
of by the simple statement that it raised a mere peestion
of words; for the Honourable Gentleman could .hardly
really expect to obtain money from those districts to
which it was shout to be advanced. His (Mr. Monsell's)
object in rising was to direct attention to the system Of
which this grant was a part—a system vicious and hurt-
ful to the empire at large, but especially to Ireland. He
was not speaking of the introduction of an extended pour-
law—he thought that the greatest benefit ever cons
ferred upon that country ; but the system of her Ma-
jesty's Government was that of bolstering up thopoor-
law by public grants—a system which squeezed capi-
tal out of the country, and made it possible for the Go-
remanent to abstain from introducing those auxiliarf
'measures without which the poor-law could not work.
—(Hear, hear.) He did not care whether the money
carne from England or from an Irish rate in aid—this
system would break down the country.—(Hear, hear.)
The mischief would spread; it was said that there were
twenty-one unions in want now—there would be twenty
more before the and of the year.—(Hear, hear.) The
difficulty in Ireland was the• disproportion between
capital and labour; and why did not the superabundant
capital of this country go to Ireland?—(A laugh.) Be'
cause Ireland was not put into a state to receive it. 131
the system of large electoral divisions the capital that
was there was locked up, and mach was driven from the
country, and, by not adopting some comprehensive mea-
sure with regard- to emigration, we were preventing the
proper proportion between capital and labour from oh'
raining.—(Hear, hear.) Grants from England dial Ire'
land harm—(Hear, hear)—all he (Mr. Monsell) wanted
was to see h, r enabled to raise money upon her own re'
sources, and for that purpose he had not the least objee'
tion to a rate in aid, or an income-tax placed upon
land. But he protested against either if it was otily to
prep up a vicious system which would destroy the re'
sources of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE had listened with pleasure to the
speech of the Hon. Member for Dublin University 01;
Napier), a speech which the House had seldom heara
equalled by any Member proceeding from the . Univer"
sity.-7(Hear, and a laugh.) There was but one thin%
to be regretted, namely, that he did not inform the,.
House how he intended to vote with regard to the grill°
—(A laugh)—but as he had maintained that all the,
grants from this country to Ireland had been attended
with unmitigated evil, it was fair to infer that he men'
to vote against this.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Osborne) ba.
felt compelled to vote against it because he thoughe bet
l,
:
would be of no earthly use; the calculation sy"'• bh
lie ved , that it would just last till-Saturday fortnlg
(Hear.) He looked upon it as nothing
opportunity afforded to the Government to delay those
long talked-of measures with which her Majesty's _
Mi-
nisters had been big since 1841—(A laugh)—measures
that must be described as a sort of political " Mrs. 1-10-
roore tightoasne
ris"—(A laugh)—only the darkest allusions were made
to them in that House, and no man had ever yet seed
them.—(Hear.) The grant would be of
110 use to those
whom it was intended to relieve; better that their pro-
tracted misery should be put an end to.—(oh I) This
was a spurious humanity; he for one would seener,
b
swept from the face of the earth than drag on from 054
to day by means of Parliamentary grants.—(" Oh, oh,
and a laugh.) It was only keeping body and soul t
gether; the relief in the west of Ireland was not OW
cient to keep men as men—it was justsufficient to debasa
them to the level of brutes.—(Hear, hear.) The 00;
cation of the English poor-law to Ireland was a gret
bluneer; it was a curse to the country. In the soot'
and west it was altogether a failure, and no tinkering'
with a loan would meet the difficulties we had create
Of the 130 unions into which Ireland was divided, 11
were in debt beyond their means, and thiS exclusive °
loans from Government and aid from the British AO;
ciation; they owed 250,0001., having received 241,000 e .
besides, and the association having also fed 200,000
children. In 36 unions paid guardians had been SP:
pointed, and it would have to be done in- half tb`
unions in the south and west. Ireland had no 104
than sixty persons to 100 cultivated acres, and, 11
like Engtand and Belgium, the greater proportion c'd
the population were engaged, not in manufactures en
commerce, but in agriculture; and they were
400, mess
is
crowded in the districts worse adapted for
tore. The largeness of the area of taxation was not oel
a rod for the landlord, but made the system intolerable
to the claimant for relief. In most of the unions,
seemed, he might have to walk 40 miles; one case b9',,
been stated where he had to go 150. On a corotterb
inqui st lately in Newcastle it appeared that a man; alt,i
his wife and child, had to walk three several journeY9d
48 Irish miles. So lone as the present proportion he' f
good between the population and the rate of
,Value s°o
the property in the various unions, so lepg 'would t"e
people continue in a state of destitution, and grants be
re quired. He warned the Government that It. °l°
e ei
system of out-door relief went n for six months "
Ireland, it would become impossible to save that unfortn"
nate country. The same sore that was now eating into the
vitals of the west and south of Ireland would soon exten",
all over ;he kingdom. The Committee of the House °`
Lords had declared the relief of the able-bodied as a polio/
that would prove injurious to the community. bit
is lreetloiynf saidt
ther.‘ta wouldb
- b able-bodied dbiee
population."
isattei
oprit.o” u introducerd t sond
s
downe, in 1846, spoke of it a being a system of a
vi-
cious character, and one that " must lead to the coat"
plete confiscation of the property of Ireland." And 0;1
Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) in 1846 said—" He (k-
-not expect such a law would relieve the miseries of Re.;
land, and he much feared that instead of a remedy I
would tend to perpetuate that Misery." And he
pressed the hope that " some scheme for the cultiestie"
of the waste lands would immediately be carried into
operation."—(Hear, hear.) Then, why had not t";
Noble Lord propounded his scheme of home colonization't
—(Hear, hear.) He would tell the Noble Lord tb6s
there must be a series of measure for Ireland; that l'lwt
one measure would relieve the destitution of tbl/
country; and he called upon the Noble Lord not to
throw the responsibillity of considering those ine.li;
sures upon Committees, as was now the practice la
almost every instance. Schemes of colonization end.
of emigration would never roach the evils of Ire's°
and lie would tell the Noble Lord that till he assimilstes,
the laws of real and personal property in that coant%;
and treed the land from the feudal fetters that se
encircled it, no real benefit would be conferred on Ire{
land. They were told that Ireland was in a State
transition; but the only transition ho saw was that the
0
were getting from bad to worse. Let them not deceive
themselves with the belief that the evils of Ireland n,
caused only by the conduct of the people and the hi'
lords. The great cause of the present state of Irelsod
was vicious legislation. They used those landlords Ge
long as they were useful to them, and the moment theil.,
were
found
to be of no use they threw them oil.—(Head
hear.) People talked of grants to Ireland, but be e
that since the Union no less a sum than 18,000,00
had been lent to England and Scotland, and of that e
sljecl
only 6,000,0001. had been repaid, whereas 9,000,0001.
been /writ to Ireland, and of that sum 7.000,000/• et't
been repaid.—(Hear.) He did nut think, therefore, °it'd
when they struck the balance rightly the people )
England and Scotland had anything to boast is
He would conclude with this, that if their presenter, ()
)icy towards Ireland were continued there would be-Pe„
petuated in that country a state of things described or;
11 h. an o historian—e No right, no control,
the life no soele
of man nasty, brutish, and willshort."—(Hear.),
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER--, iise
endeavour shortly to recal the attention of the
to that which it seems to have lost sight of for s-for
hours, viz., the amendment of the Hon. Monbereood
Stroud. We have had from various speakers *trot
many sp eiulations on the general state of Iteletleatl
1410 or nothing has for a considerable time Past the
said on the subject of the amendment brought bettre.sl
Hone by that lion. ;Gentleman. My Bon.
who spoke last taunted the Hon. Gentleman the M his
tier for the University of Dublin with having made be
be
speech without intorming the House in what way es;
intended to give his vote on the question now befetself
bat, to my apprehension, the Hon. Gentleman bi``; teo
is liable to tee charge which he has brought agein:solse
Member for for the University of Dublin. He sop'
about the improvement of waste lands; and, fromsops
he has said upon that point, it might almost
rto th°
posed that he was willing to give his suisPe,r t upoo
amendment of the Hon. Member for Stroud_ p; stiol
that subject he has. given tim Rouge. no,ing"'"