The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-03 00:00:00

Mr. Sergeant BYLES—I shall ask you no more ques-
tions; you can stand down.
Prisoner—l have nothing to ask you.
The witness was the Jermy so often referred to dur-
ing the trial, and co-claimant with Larner of the Jermy
estate.

Mr. Frederick Howe ro-called and re-sworn by the
prisoner's request.
Prisoner—Before you give your evidence I wish to
caution you. My firm hope against all the evidence
which may be brought against me is in God. Recollect
that God's eye is upon you. Speak, then, the truth, and
nothing but the truth, to the best of your recollection.
Where are you staying at Norwich?—At the Bell
hotel.
How often has your evidence been taken down in
writing?—Never but once.
When?—Within the last fortnight, at my own house.
Who brought you down here?—Mr. Cann.
Did you write letters to Mr. Cann as to your attend-
ing the trials?—Yes, I did.
How much are you to have for giving your evidence?
—How much am Ito have? I really don't understand
the question.
Oh has there ever been anything said to you about
giving money to you 2—Never.
Have you ever had any conversation about attending
the trial P—Never, in reference to money.
Were money matters mentioned at those conversa-
tions?—Never.
Have you got no money?—l have received one guinea
for my expenses coining down by railway.
When did you come down?—By the half•past two
o'clock train on Monday.
Do you swear you have only received a guinea?—l
do swear it. It was only a pound, properly speaking,
my Lord.
Where do you live?—At Marlborough-street, Green-
wich, in the county of Kent.
Have you lived there long?—Oh dear, yes; fur seven
years.
In the same house?—Yes.
Are you a married man?—(Apparently offended.) No,
Mr. Rush; I am only 21.—(A litter.)
Can you give any references as to your respectability?
—I am not bound to give you any, Mr. Rush; but I can.
My uncle is chaplain to the Mercers' Company, and my
father is mathensatical master at Clapham Grammar
School.
Were you ever suspected of any crime?
The JUDGE—You have no right to ask that question.
You can ask if he was ever accused.
Have you ever been tried in any court?—Never.
Have you spoken to Mr. Cann much as to the trans-
action?—Not above halt-a-dozen words on this or any
transaction since I came to Norwich; i❑ fact, I have never
seen him so long before as since I have come into court.
(Mr. Cann sat under the witness-box.)
Whose employment are you in now?—No one's.
At whose place were you last employed 2—Mr. Simp-
son's, Bedford•square. I was his clerk, and managed his
business for him.
Were you ever accused of receiving money there and
not accounting for it?—Never.
Do you know anything about an indictment relating
to Eliza Kingate?—Yer.
What do you know about it it?—Do you wish me to
detail it fully.
The JUDGE—Oh, no; we cannot go into that.
Were you in any trouble about it?—l never was in
any trouble abJut it, though I had some trouble about the
Case.

Did you make an affidavit at the time?—No.
Not about the perjury?—No. I may as well explain.
I went before Air. Baron Alderson fur a writ of habeas
corpus on the behalf of a client whose daughter was im-
properly detained by Kingate, and in order to obtain it I
had to make affidavit of the imi.roper detention. Kingate
was tried at the Old Bailey, but in consequence of the
magistrate's clerk not producing the depositions in con-
formity with the subpoena she was acquitted,
When did you become acquainted with Kingate ?—I
attended for her brother-in-law before Mr. Broderip last
August.
Do you know Charles Mathews ?
The RTDGE—The actor, you mean ?
Yes, my Lord. Do you know him ?—Yes.
Was there ever a charge made against you for forging
orders on him ?—No ; I must explain that matter,
though not bound to answer the question. A friend of
mine—a medical student of the College of Surgeons—
had proposed to send a friend of his, a Mr. Morgan,
with an order for himself and a lady. I wrote an
order, accordingly, for the stage-box at the Lyceum.
Mr. Morgan, on presenting it, was detained by the offs
cer on duty. I went before Mr. Mathews, accompanied
by my friend, and told him it was done merely for a joke,
and I proved by the evidence of my friends before Mr.
Jardine, the magistrate at Bow-street, that it was only
a joke. He was quite satisfied it was only dune as a
joke, and expressed his full conviction of it.
What did Mr. Simpson discharge you for?—He did
not discharge me. I went away to attend to my business.
How long is it since you were clerk to Mr. Waugh?—
In January or February, '4 8 ; I can't say which.
Have you performed the part of counsel at the Judge-
and-Jury Club, or any public-house in London?—
(Laughter.)—No; (after a short pause) I have occa-
sionally been in such places, and have put on a wig and
gown.—(Laughter.)
Have you employed part of your time in teaching box-
ing?—Never.
Did you ever go by another name?—No.
DJ you know anything about the name of Abraham
Leasegrove?—No.
Did you not put it on your card?—No; I will ex-
plain; in a joke, a friend of mine requested me to et
some cards printed with that name, and I did so. g
1)o you know Mr. Paul?—Yes.
How long is it since you saw Mr. Cann in London?—
I cannot recollect exactly; it is not more than a month;
to my belief, 'tis about three weeks.
Did you send letters to any one else in Norwich be-
sides Mr. Cann?—l did; to the mayor of Norwich.
Did you make the same statement to him as to Mr.
Cann ?—Yes.
Do you recollect the substance of your- letter?—l
stated the circumstances, and the expressions I recollected
you to have used.
Where did you receive the parcel directed to you?--
At the Wheatsheaf.
How much money was in it?—lZ
Were you ever indicted for perjury at the Old Bailey?
—Never.

Do you recollect the day of the month you saw me at
Mr. Waugh's?—No; but if the call-book is produced it
will be found there that my name is placed opposite
yours, as I saw you on the day in question.
Who was the fighting man at Jessop's ?—Samuel
Simmonds.
What wine did we drink at Jessop's ?—Claret.
Were there many persons in the room?—About 200.
What time was it?—About two o'clock in the morn-
ing _

What date ?—December 13, or rather the morning
of December 14, 1817.
The prisoner requested that his pocket-book for 1847
might be given to him, but it could not be found.
What time did Igo there?—l cannot particularize.
But I want you to particularize—Well, I think it was
later than 12 o'clock.
What time did I leave?—About four o'clock in the
morning. You left at the time with some girl, but who
she was I don't know.
(gem witness, in reply to questions from the pri-
soner, ran over the names of the waiters and other per-
sons present on the night in question.)
The JUDGE—What place is this?—'Tis a wine and
refreshment-room, my Lord.
Did any one hear the expressions I used to you?—
I should think several did. Simmonds, for instance,
from his position close to ou.
What did you leave Mr. Waugh for ?—For breaking
a window.
Was there not a serious charge made against you?
—No.

Was there no reason assigned?—No; I heard nono but
the window-breaking. Several of the clerks were throw-
ing stones at a back window.
Mr. Candle Clarke, solicitor of Norwich, proved several
documents in the handwriting of Mr. Jermy.
staMte:ti,hj;
signa-
ture of hie late father to several deeds produced.
tasCshaferrveesogruu,lodsnolill solicitor taoprpoe at
r. Norfolk,
Mr. W. P. Nichols, surgeon, deposed that ho was in
attendance on Mrs. Jermy,and that she was in such a
9biervati‘las _ . y occurred during the trial, some
div kaiiseci hetweeh the Leamod Judge and Ihe

—the only plan—to get possession of the pro-
perty.] Went to Mylne street, about six o'clock.
Thomas Jermy and John Lerner arrived after
he came. Emily Sandford was there when
witness arrived, but was called out and left the
room. There was an agreement on the table, and after
it had been read, Rush said that that was his plan. Wit-
ness signed it (identified his signature). Rush said it
was the only plan by which he would render the claimant
any assistance whatever. Jermy hesitated about putting
his mark to the paper, but on witness telling him it con-
tained nothing unreasonable he signed it, as did Lerner.
Emily Sandford was called in to witness the signing of
the papers. Prisoner said she would find whatever means
were wanting to make good their claims. He called her
" this lady," and she was present at the time it was
said. Prisoner said he would require Jermy and Lerner
to go down to Felmingham to see after the property,
and that he would pay all the expenses of any suit
that might take place as to that property. He said he
held the leases of the property• that either one or
both expired on the 10th of October; and that be would
put the claimants in quiet possession. He said also
that he expected to be served with an ejectment on
the 12th of October. Jermy refused to go unless his
cousin Lerner went with him. As Rush refused to pay
the expenses of the latter, witness did so. Witness
went down from London on the 10th. Went over to
Potash. Saw the prisoner at the Wymondham station,
and accompanied him there. Was present when an
agreement was made at Felmingham on the 12th of
October.' Identified the agreement which bound Jermy
and Larner to give the prisoner a lease of the farm, &c.
Went over with the prisoner on the 11th to Stanfield-
hall,:and tendered the rent to Mr. Jermy. (Identified a
copy of the agreement made by him at the time, and also
a notice to Mr. Jermy; that signed by Thomas Jermy,
stating that he had entered on possession of the Fel-
mingham estates.) Returned to London, and on the
14th of October Rush called on him, and they went to-
gether to Mr. Cloves', the printer. Had a sovereign
given him by the prisoner for some notices which the
latter directed to be sent to Norwich.
Cross-examined--Thotight at the time the prisoner's
plan was a very good one. Never heard prisoner ex-
press any illwill towards the late Mr. Jermy.
John Lerner was then called and sworn, but neither
the counsel for the Crown nor the prisoner asked him
any questions.
Thomas Jermy likewise left the witness-bex with-
out being required to give evidence on either side, ex-
cept this—
Mr. Sergeant BYLES—Can you write ? Witness—
No, sir.