The Sun.
London, England, 1838-03-13 00:00:00

}li' SUN, LONDON, TMESDAY,

11:1gium into Prance on terms greatly more favourable than
hose on which it permitted the ImpottatiOn of linens of Bri-
t'sh manufacture If tuck should prdve the fact he must
greatly regret the hostility which such Conduct Would evince
on the part of the French Government.
Mr. P. THOMSON had not as yet had any certain infor-
mation on the subject. The whole question of the linen
!titles was nOt es 'et under discussion in the Chamber of
Deputies, and he had some reason to hope when it
should come under consideration it would be arranged in a
more favourable manner than had been anticipated from the
first discussion.
DUTY ON POLICIES OF ASSURANCE.
Colonel SIBTHORP, in making his motion for the re-
diction of this duty, hoped that he would not be opposed by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the miserable pret •xt
that the finances of the country would not bear any diminu-
ion of taxation. Government had remitted a great many
taxes not near so oppressive as the one now under discussion.
On looking over the paper he found that the duty on rhubarb
—(A laugh)—on human hair, on anchovies and French
wines, on balsam of copaiba, and jalap—(Great laughter)—
had been reduced, although these were all articles of luxury,
and deserved to be taxed. He also found a reduction in the
duty on playing cards. To be sure these might be an article
of necessity to many Hon. Members—(A laugh)—but while
these taxies on mere luxuries were remitted by wholesale the
tax on Policies of Assurance, one which affected a very largo
portion of the community, remained as high as at any period
during the war. The effect of the present high rate of duty
was to transfer a great deal of the business to foreign offices
—indeed he heard a report, for the accuracy of ehich he
could not vouch, that, previous to the late fire in the Temple,
the law gentlemen residing there had met for the purpose
of considering whether it would be adv'sable to insure that
building in a French office.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—No, no.
Colonel SIBTHORP—It might be so; but, however, a
great many buildings were insured in foreign offices; this
would be prevented by a reduction of the duty, which reduc-
tion would not ultimately prove any loss to the revenue.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
a reduction of the tax had already taken place, but the sup..
posed concomitant increase had not taken place. By the
balance sheet of January it appeared that, so far from a sur-
plus revenue, there was a deficiency to the amount of
655,000/. He could show to those who were acquainted with
commercial :matters that no financial measure could have
averted the commercial crisis from which this country had
lately escaped. It arose from the state of things in America
reacting upon this country. An experiment such as that
purposed by the Noble and Gallant Member could not be
made when there was no surplus revenue to be given away.
Was there any other tax which the Gallant Gentleman
would propose in lieu of that which he proposed to do away
with ? Pledged as this country was to the public creditor, and
hound as it was to support the national honour, the question
could not at present be entertained. With respect to reduc-
tion of taxes, those were always considered most fit to be re
duced which were found to be decreasing as a source of reve-
nue. The opposite was the case with respect to the tax now
proposed to be reduced. The income from this tax, for the
last three years, was as follows :—ln the first it was 809,0001.,
in the next 844,0001., and in the third 872,0001. Under those
circumstances he did not see that the question was one which
could be just then entertained.
Sir G. SINCLAIR hoped his Honourable and Gallant
Friend would withdraw his motion.
Colonel SIBTHORP would feel it his duty to take the
sense of the House on the question.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL hoped the motion would be with-
drawn. He would take that opportunity of putting a question
to the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer with re-
spect to the financial statement. Last year the Right Hon.
Gentleman seemed unwilling to give an immediate answer to
a similar question, and then stated that he would give ample
reasons for the delay, when he brought the statement forward.
He (Sir E. Knatchbull) was present when the statement was
brought forward, and yet he had not heard those reasons. It
was necessary that the public should be informed as to the
time when a matter of so much importance should be brought
before the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would, to,
so distant a question, give a distant reply. The financial year
ended on the 6th of April, and as soon after that date as the
accounts could be made up he should be prepared with his
statement. He hoped to be ready some time in April.
Mr. HUME said, with respect to the motion of the Hon.
and Gallant Member (Colonel Sibthorp), he was satisfied the
revenue would not suffer from a reduction of the tax. He
was anxious to see the question fairly tried, and would vote
with the Hon. Member, but did not think this was the proper
period for bringing it forward.
Lord MAHON regretted that he should be obliged to vote
against the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman, as lie did not think
such a proposition should be made without a great deal of eon-
deration.

The House then divided, when there appeared—
For Colonel Sibthorp's motion ..
Against it 95
Majority
On our return to the Gallery we found Lord llowick reply-
ing to some question of Mr. Hume's, but wo could not collect
its import.
Tho House then went into a Committee of Supply.
ARMY ESTIMATES.
Lord HOWICK, in bringing before the House the Army
Estimates for the year, thought he should best perform his
duty by drawing the attention of Hon. Members to the diffe-
rence between the estimates of this and the last year. He
would first name the number of men whom it was proposed to
vote. There would be an apparent increase of 8,000 men, but
to those who attended to these matters it would be obvious
that the increase was only apparent. The real increase would
be found to be much less. It was the practice far some years
to keep the regiments a certain number short. The whole sum
was not voted, but a certain deduction was made for the
non-effective force. The deduction last year was eight men
in the infantry corps and five men in the cavalry. It
was proposed to add to the cavalry force 880 men.
With respect to the infantry, the intention was that all the
regiments in the North American colonies, or about to be or-
dered there, were to be completed to their full establishment.
It was also intended to revert to the old practice of not stating
the non-effective force by the number of men, but by the
amount in money. The last year there had been an increase
of 118,0001; in the present year there would be one of
110,0001., making on the whole, as would be seen by the
Estimates, a difference of 71,0001. It would also be observed
that there was an addition to the land forces of 4000/.
charged upon the additional officers which had been requisite
to send to Canada. It had been thought expedient to employ
certain officers on full pay in Canada under the direction of
the Commander-in-Chief, which would make an increase of
9 0261. This was, in fact, met by some savings on the other
estimates; and 2,580/. had been transferred to the Staff from
the Army Estimates to the Ordnance Estimates, in accordance
with a Bill which had been passed last year. The whole
result of last year's arrangement was 37,322/. saved, lion.
Members were aware that one large item had been provided
for in 1831 by the transfer of 9,5001. from the War Office,
which was now put to the account of the regimental expendi-
ture of the troops sent to Canada, such as clothing and re-
cruiting. He was also happy to state that 24,000/. had been
f paid into the military chest of Canada, which came in aid of
the supplies of the mother country. It had been also thought
necessary to give the power of a Commander-in-Chief to the
offiecr governing in Canada, which had rendered it necessary
to increase the Staff by the addition of two Major-Generals,
and one had been added to the Colony of New South Wales,
the increase in the affairs of that Colony rendering the duty
of the Governor very onerous, and it had, therefore, been con-
sidered highly necessary to divide the civil and military de-
partments, so that the former might be intrusted to the undis-
tracted care of one individual. The Noble Lord then said
that there might be said to be a supplementary history to the
present Estimates, and ho only proposed the present as a tem-
porary arrangement, as he might, on some future occasion,
have to come down to the House and claim its liberality fur a
larger demand. It would depend entirely on the condition
of the Colonies, but he must say, that the future liberality of
the House might be called for in consequence of the condition
of the Canadas. These, however, would not be in the usual
Estimates, but, as he had said, supplementary. The Noble
Lord concluded by moving that 89,305 men be the effective
force of the army for the present year.
Mr. HUME expected that the Noble Lord would have
shown that a considerable reduction had taken place, and that
as Ireland was tranquil, and Canada was said to be at peace,
there had been the reduction of at least two regiments of ca-
valry and one of infantry. More men had been demanded
than in the time of the Duke of Wellington's Administration.
The House seemed at all times to encourage the Ministers in
extravagance, and he saw no reason why, Ireland being tran-
quil, there should not have been at least a reduction of 10,000
men. It had been clearly shown by the Noble Lord at the
head of the Foreign Department before the Finance Com-
mittee in the time of Lord Castlereagh's Administration that
by proper regulations a force of 300,000 men might be as
easily supported as one of 200,000, by which there would be
a saving of one-third. He thought also it would be very
desirable, as it was in the Austrian army, that there should be
no pet regiment, and that each regiment should, in their turn,
enjoy the honour of attending upon their Sovereign, and that
such a privilege should not be exclusive, which would produce
a degree of equalization in the army much to the advantage
of the service. The Honourable Member concluded by
moving that the number of men proposed be reduced by ton
thousand.

Captain WOOD deprecated the plan suggested by the
Hon. Member for Kilkenny for governing the ariuy, as it
would have the effect of placing it altogether in the hands of
the Secretary-at-War. Such a system of government would
have a most detrimental effect on the service.—( Hear.) The
Hon. and Gallant Member defended the Life Guards from the
attacks in the observations of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny.
He said that force had been always found faithful to their So-
vereign and their country, and that the establishment of such
a body of troops conduced greatl♦ to the splendour and dig-
nity of the Crown.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Member for
Kilkenny had asked where tho additional troops were now
wanted ? Ho (Captain Wood) would reply, in Canada—
(I-fear)--where, he would take leave to add, if 2,000 men had
been sent long since, there would be no occasion to send 10,000
at present.—( Hear. )
Lord J. RUSSELL could not let some of the observations
of the Hon. Member fur Kilkenny pass unanswered or uncoil.
tradicted. There were 5,000 troops less in Ireland now than
there were five years ago ; and, if such disaffection had pre-
vailed in that country as did in Canada, a larger force would
have been asked for. The Hon. Member had asked where
the additional troops were required? He (Lord John Rus-
sell) would answer that, setting aside Canada, they were re-
quired in various parts of the United Kingdom. In Scot-
land, for instance, last year, he had been obliged to send troops

there when a particular occasion required it, not to weaken
the northern depots by drawing cif the regular amount of their
force. The Hon. Gentleman had said that the present Go-
vernment had gone on increasing the army since they bad come
into office, and thk there were 10,000 men more now in pay
than had been on the resignation cif the Doke of Wellington.
Rut what was the real fact ? Previous to the Duke of Wel-
l;ngton leaving office there was a reduction of 7,634 men ill
the amount of the military force of the country, which was,
however, replaced by Lord Gro)'s Government in 1831. In
1834 a reduction to nearly the same amount again took place,
and so had the army continued ever since. The Hon. Gen-
tleman had made some observations on the Guards. Now,
looking at the whole history of those troops he (Lord J. Rus-
sell) did not think the Hon Gentleman's reproach by any
means a deserved one ; still less was it deserved now when a
rortion of them were going to serve their country in Canada.
Under all these circumstances he (Lord John Russell) hoped
the House would not agree with the amendment of the Hon.
Member.
Mr. GILLON said that the increase of force in Canada
was for the purpose of coercion, and to keep down that colony,
not to defend it.
Sir H. VERNE Y observed that if it were intended by this
country to retain her colonial possessions in America the amount
of military force required was absolutely necessary. He hoped,
therefore, that the Government would not be persuaded to
swerve from their original proposal.
Lord HOWICK, in addition to what had fallen from his
Noble Friend (Lord J. Russell), did not believe that the Hon.
Member for Kilkenny's statement was correct that the pro-
portion of Officers in the English service was greater than
that in any other service whatsoever. Neither was the Hon.
Gentleman correct in stating that the disproportion of officers
to men was greater now than it had been at his favourite
period of 1792. On the contrary, it was much less. In the
latter year it was as 1 to 12, whereas, at the present time, it
was Ito 18i. With respect to the reductions proposed by
the Hon. Member, he (Lord Howick) was entirely opposed to
the plan suggested by him. In 1821 and 1822 there had been
a reduction of 21,000 men in the army, a very great proportion
of which were placed on the Pension List; but not two years
after it was found absolutely necessary to increase it by 15,000
new men. Thus was the country put to the expense of pro-
viding the latter and paying the pensions of the former—a re-
sult which would inevitably ensue again if the Hon. Member's
plan were carried into effect.

Sir E. KNATCHBULL, who was nearly inaudible in the
gallery, rose to suggest that there should be some restraint
laid upon the expenses of the mission of Lord Durham, other-
. wise the supplemental vote which the Noble Lord (Howick)
would have to call on the country for might be incalculable.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not anticipate, as we understood,
any very great difference between the expenses which were
likely to be incurred by Lord Durham, in the prosecution of
his mission, and that of any ordinary Governor. But, at all
events, as it was a special mission, he (Lord J. Russell) did
not think there could be any restriction laid on the expenses
without injuring its success. In the eases of Lord Cowley,
despatched to Madrid in the last war, and Lord Stewart do
Rothesay, there was no particular sum assigned for their expen-
diture, and he thought that the House had done well in defray-
ing their expenses on their return.
Lord PALMERSTON said that in his evidence before the
Committee, in 1828, he had shown that, so far from there
being a saving by increasing the battalions from 800 men to
2,000 there would be an increased expense of upwards of 8,0001.
The Committee then divided, when the numbers were
the original vote
For the amendment
Majority
The sum of 152,566/., was voted for the payment of Gene-
ral Staff, and other Officers of her Majesty's land service.
The sum of 3,252,9621. was voted for defraying the expense
of the military service of the year.
57,0001. for Principal Officers of Military Departments.
The sum of 15,803/. was voted for the expenses of military
asylums and hospitals.
The sum of 15,9811. for military rewards aid other expenses.
529,000/. for defraying the expenses of half-pay.
103,000/. for defraying the expenses of General Officers.
60,0001. for Full Pay of Reduced and Retired Officers.
69,500/. for reduced officers and foreign corps.
148,6501. for the payment of 'idows' pensions.
139,0001. for the Compassionate Fund.
1,310,474/. for the expenses of Chelsea and Kilmainham
Hospitals, and other military establishments.
44,0001. for superannuation allowances.
10,000/. for the expenses of a force to be raised at the Cape
of Good Hope for temporary service.
The House then resumed.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL stated that it was his intention
to go on with this Bill on Friday next, as the Honourable and
Learned Member for Liskeard would be unable to proceed
with the Controverted Elections Bill on that day.
COPYIIOLDS ENFRANCHISEMENT BILL.
On the motion of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL, the
following Members were nominated for the Select Committee
on this Bill :

Sir Robert Peel, Mr. Goulburn, Sir Edward Knatchbull,
Sir James Graham, Sir William Follett, Mr. Yorke, Mr.
Darby, Mr. Freshfield, Mr. James Stewart (Iloniton), Mr.
liayter, Mr. Lynch, Mr. Duckworth, Mr. Strutt, Mr. Ag-
li3nbv, Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Mr. Ayshford Sandford, Mr. Wil-
liam 'John Blake, Lord Viscount Eastnor, Mr. William Miles,
Mr. Wrightson, and Sir John Campbell.
Mr. FOX MAULE obtained leave to bring in a Bill to
improve the system of prisons and prison discipline in Scot-
land. The Bill was read a first time.

The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to bring in the
two following Bills :
" Bill for regulating the sequestration of the Estates of
Bankrupts. Bill to amend the Law of Scotland in matters
relating to bankruptcy, personal diligence, arrestments, poind-
ing of goods, inhibitions, adjudications, judicial sales, powers
of sale, and poindings of the ground."
Mr. FOX MAULE moved that an Address be presented
to her Majesty, praying for a further return respecting those
individuals confined in the Penitentiary about whom so much
discussion had-lately taken place.

111 r. RICE postponed for the present the re-appointment a
the Committee on Joint-stock Banks.

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter before Twelve o'Clock.

tz PHUT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

Thislaflmsufreeen if
ici ae 01
he
ve as
day the Committee on the Dublin election petition
will bo ballotted for, and we trust we shall be forgiven for
urging on Liberal Members the necessity of a good atter--
da„ce. We wish to :use no hard words —we will not charge
Tory Members with perjury; but we have no hesitation in say-
ing that if ten hundred oaths were administered to the members
of the Committee, we should notwithstanding advise Mr.
O'Connell and his colleague to avoid defending the retura
should there be a majority of Tory members on the Committee.
The bias of Tories is of wonderful potency; it not only over-
povvers the judgment,
him folsa e
lbutplays;ll,le
when
nst
underf:
ntr.stiethetricink.s
with the memory. A man whose memory during a long
never
playedthe fell enchanter bias, become instantly as oblivious
ehad been dragged through the waters of Lethe.
great a dread of bias as of perjury, and arc some-
what inclined to think that the old Scotch saying, " Show me
your man and. applicable to
Tory Committees. We entreat Reform Members to do all
that in them lies to prevent the Tories from resenting the
foolish figure which Mr. O'Connell lately forced them to cut,
by leading themselves with the injustice of unseating him.
Whether we arc to obtain an impartial tribunal for trying re-
turns we know not ; but from a partial Tcry ti ibunal justice is
not to be expected. Once more ww ray, let Liberal Members
be at their post.—Mornincr Chronicle.