The Sun.
London, England, 1838-06-27 00:00:00

Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when th e
numbers were—

For the original motion lO4
For the substitution of Sir T. D. Arland
Majority against the original motion -.40
Sir T. D. Acland's name was accordingly substituted for that of the
Earl of Lincoln.

Sir E. KNATCHBULL then proposed the name of the Marquis of
Chandos.

Lord HOWICK moved all an amendment that the name of Sir It
Peel be substituted.

Sir It. PEEL immediately rose and said—The occasions have been
very rare in which I have ever shrunk from the discharge of any duty
which the House has thought fit to impose upon me; but, on the pre-
sent occasion, in order to record my sense of the injustice of the course
adopted towards my Noble Friend, it is my intention to depart from my
ordinary rule, and to decline serving upon this Committee.—!Loud and
continued cheering from the Opposition benches.)

Sir F. TRENCH (with some warmth) could not abstain from stating
that the conduct of the Noble Lord was somewhat extraordinary in
having proposed the name of the Right Hon. Baronet on the bench be-
low him. The Noble Lord could not have so far forgotten that he had
but the evening before ascertained, in a private conference, that the
Right Hon. Gentleman had an objection to serve on the Committee.—
(Opposition cheers.)

Lord HO WICK—The abjection made by the Gallant Officer was of
so idle and trivial a nature that he scarcely thought it necessary to
notice it. What the Gallant Officer had stated was perfectly true, that
the Right Hon. Baronet had expressed an unwillingness to serve upon
the Committee; but, then, he (Lord Howick) understood that the Right
Hon. Baronet's reluctance to serve arose out of feelings of delicacy to-
wards a political opponent. He regretted the course which the Right
Honourable Baronet had felt it his duty to adopt. A 11, then, that he
(Lord Howick) could do under the circumstances would be to persist
in the amendment which lie had moved.—(Cheers from the Ministerial
benches.)

Mr. W. DU NCO MBE (with considerable warmth and energy) thought
a motion of this kind ought to have some grounds to support it. It was
incumbent upon the Noble Lord to state any objections which he enter-
tained towards his Noble Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire.—
(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches.) There was no man in the
House who, on the ground of his long experience, ought to be consi-
dered to have more fitness for the discharge of duties of this kind.—
(Hear.) His Noble Friend had for the last twenty years been a Mem-
ber of that House, and during all that time his Noble Friend had paid
the greatest attention to all the important questions that had come un-
der the attention of Parliament. As an independent Member of that
House he felt bound to protest against the course taken by the Noble
Lord.—(Cheers.) He had It ad the honour of a seat in that House for a
few years, and though lie had seen the names of Members occasionally
objected to, yet he felt bound to say that the course adopted towards his
Noble Friend was a course wholly without precedent.—(Cheers.) The
Noble Lord opposite, in refusing to state the ground of objection to the
Noble Lord's fitness to serve on the Committee, had laid down a doctrine
to which he, as an independent Member of that House, felt bound in the
strongest manner to object.---(Loud cheers.)
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said, after the division that had taken place,
it was quite manifest that the power of naming the Committee now
rested completely in the hands of the Noble Lord.—(Loud and continued
cheering from the Conservative benches.) He would, therefore, leave
the appointment of the Committee entirely in the hands of the Noble
Lord, being perfectly aware that, in the names he was about to propose,
he was not likely to receive the sanction of the Noble Lord or his friends.
—(Loud cheers.) He, therefore, now left entirely to the Noble Lord
the nomination of the Committee.—(Loud cheers.)

Lord HOWICK could not allow the observations which had fallen
from the Hon. Baronet to pass without notice. He did not wish it to
be supposed that he had any wish to force the question in the way in
which the I-lon. Baronet had stated.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," from
the Conservative benches, answered by cheers from the Treasury side of
the House.) He was anxious to settle the question amicably, and it was
by no seeking of his that anything unpleasing towards any individual
had taken place. He could not state any further reasons for wishing
the change than this—that he thought that the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite (Sir R. Peel) would make a more useful member of the Com-
mittee than the Noble Marquis.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," and sar-
castic cheering, answered by loud cheering frem the other side of the
House.)

Mr. W. DUNCOMBE rose in the midst of great confusion, and cries
of " Adjourn," " Divide,"" Spoke," &c. The Hon. Member, however,
immediately gave way to the
Marquis of CHANDOS, who said that when the Noble Lord opposite
had done him the honour to mention his name, he felt bound to say, with
respect to any opinions which the Noble Lord entertained of him, or to-
wards him, they were to him (the Marquis of Chandos) a matter of the
most perfect indifference.—(Great and reiterated cheering from the Op.
position benches.) But whilst he said this, he would Hot permit the No-
ble Lord,
or any other Member of that House to put on him. The
Noble Lord, however, had subsequently stated that he had not intended
to cast any imputation upon him. He was therefore so far willing to be_
have that the Noble Lord did not mean to offer any insult to him. But
lie must take the liberty to say that when the Noble Lord brough
forward an accusation against him before the House and tliecountryt
he had a right to ascertain the reasons that existed for that accusation.,
—(Loud cheers.) He had a right to ask the Noble Lord why he had
objected to him as unfit to serve upon that Committee. He repeated,
in conclusion, that he was bound to believe the statement of the Noble
Lord, that he meant no insult towards him. He would therefore say
no more at present with reference to what had occurred, but would leave
the House to form their own decision on the conduct which had been
pursued by the Noble Lord.—(Great and continued cheering, in the
midst of which the Noble Marquis left the House.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE did not shrink from saying, without any inten.
tion to give offence, that the Committee originally Proposed was
not a tribunal with the constitution of which that side of the House
had Perfect reason to be satisfied. He thought that it would be better
if the Hon. Baronet would adopt some amicable arrangement by which
a fair Committee could be constituted to the satisfaction of both sides of
the House.—(Hear, hear, from the Treasury benches.)

Sir E. KNATCIIBULL found it impossible under the circumstances
to withdraw thOse names, or give up those individuals whom he had ori.
ginally proposed.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. GOULBTJUN said the objections stated were not objections to
the names merely, but individuals were objected to because it was al-
leged their party feeling was such as to incapacitate them from &cry-
ing.—(Cheers.) Now, the object ions to one Hon. Member were that
he had cheered the speech of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Kent,
and that therefore he was incompetent to sit on his Committee. Surely
these were unprecedented objections.—(Cheers, and loud cries of
" Divide, divide.")

Sir E. KNATCHBULL had no wish, after what had occurred, to
divide the House.

Sir R. PEEL trusted that, after he had stated his objections to serve
upon the Committee, the Noble Lord would not persist in his
amendment.

Lord HO WICK was understood to make no answer; and the Speaker
put the question.
. _ _

. - --- - .
The gallery was then cleared and the House dividcd—
For the original motion
For the substitution of Sir R. Pee 1........„ ......
Majority against the motion —l9
On our readmission to the gallery we found
The SPEAKER on his legs. The night Honourable Gentleman
said that it was his duty to acquaint the House that Mr. Praed, a Mem-
ber of that House, had been ordered to attend in his place in the House, •
but (as we understood the Right Hon. Gentleman) the wish of the
House could not now be carried into effect, as the Hots. Member could
not be found.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the object
which the House had in view in making the order could not be carried
into effect with respect to the gentleman who was absent, but they
could follow it up with respect to the gentleman who was present. He
therefore intended to move that the gentleman who was in his place
should be called on by the Speaker.—(A laugh.) It became his duty
to move that the Hon. Member should be called on in his place to give
a promise to the House that he did not intend to carry any further the
matter which had occurred that evening.
The SPEAKER said, after what occurred, it became his duty to in-
form the Hon. Member for Lincoln that the House expected that he
would
give them an assurance that he did not intend to accept any hos-
tile message on the part of the Hon. Member who had left his place. He
wished to know did the Hon. Member consent to this ?—(Cries of
" Divide, divide.")
Mr BVLWER rose, and made some brief observations, which did not
.
reach the gallery.
The SPEAKER did not express to the Honourable Member his
own opinion, but the opinion of the House, and in deference to that
opinion he now called upon the Honourable Member to give the House )
ftpat assurance on, his part which it was reasonable for him to expect.—
Renewed cries of " Divide.")
Mr. BVLWER rose and said he was now in the hands of the House,
and whatever party feeling might have been shown in the earlier part of
their proceedings, he was sure there would be an abstinence from any
manifestation of that kind when the character of one of their own Mem.
bers was concerned.—(Hear, hear, from both sides of the House.) He
was sure the House would make due allowance for the situation in
which he was placed. He was not aware that any past of the discussion
on his side had been of a hostile stature. He certainly, as well as
others at the same side of the House, slid take exceptions to the nomi.
nations of the Committee originally proposed. He believed that
he had but expressed the general wish at that side of the House,
when he disclaimed any wish to cast imputations or discredit upon
the character of any Honourable Members to whom he objected.
• when he objected to the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire he stated
that there was not at either side of the House any more respectable
Member than the Noble Lord. He had stated, moreover, with respect
to the Hon. Member for Sussex that there was no objection to him but
the short time that he had been in the House. He had stated that he
had no objection personally to him, but that he objected to his appoint-
ment because he feared that he had the zeal of a novice in those opinions
which he had more recently formed. He thou proceeded to illustrate
that statement respecting the Hon. Member for Aylesbury, by mention.
ing that the Hon. Member when at Cambridge: had been in the habit of
attending meetings in celebration of the execution of Charles the First,
and that he believed the Hon. Member continued to maintain those
opinions up to a very late period previous to his enjoying the honour of
being elected a Member of that House. Well, he believed that that was
the sum of his objections to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. The
Hon. and Learned Member, in reply to him, charged him with having
made a misstatement—with being guilty of a lapse of memory, he
(Mr. Bulwer) making no reply. He made use of no hostile expres-
sion, because he felt that whatever observations had been made re-.
ferred to a matter of fact, which was not of itself a matter of any
great attention, but merely mentioned incidentally. He (Mr. Bill.
wcr) had thought the HOD. and Learned Member's language perfectly
Parliamentary.
His Right Hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge
then accused the Hon. and Learned Member of versatility of judg-
ment, and the Hon. and Learned Member in his reply took occasion
to repeat with strong appearance of excitement the statement which
he (Mr. Bulwer) had made.—(Hear, hear.) He (his. Bulwer) then
stated that, as the matter was merely a matter of fact, and easy to be
ascertained, lie did not think it necessary to notice the Hon. and
Learned Member's contradiction. Surely this required no farther ex-
ploitation, nor that he should be now called on to make any apology.
The Honourable and Learned Member then going out of the House
left him (Mr. Bulwer) in this situation, that the Member who
had withdrawn would be in a condition to take any notice of the
circumstance he pleased, while he (Mr. Bulwer) would be bound down
in a manner exceedingly painful to a gentleman and a man of honour.
He did not think this fair. —(Hear, hear.) Ile was perfectly ready at
once to say that it was not his intention to take any notice of the lion. •
and Learned Member's observations—more, he did not think was called
for. The matter was one of fact between the Ilon. and Learned Mein.
tier and himself, and one which, being known to a great number of per-
sons, could be easily decided. He did not, under these circumstances,
think it fair that he (Mr. Bulwer) should be bound down sinless the Hon.
:tnd Learned Member was present.—(Hear, hear.) Any mutual ar-
rangement he would agree to, but it could not be expected that he
should do so alone. Ile threw himself upon the candour of the House,
and he trusted that no party feeling would allow them to refuse fair
play.—(Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER said that the Hon. Member was mistaken, inasmuch
as that no apology was required. He felt assured that he seas only ex-
pressing the opinion of the House in saying that nothing was further
Roos its intentians than to place any Hon. Member in an unfair position.
If both Hon Members had been in their places never would they have
been allowed to leave until both had given security against any ulterior
proceedings. As the other Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury
was not now present, all that the House would require from the Hon.
Member for Lincoln would be to give security until the next sitting
of the House, when the question would be finally decided.—(Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped that his Hon.
IFriend behind him would feel the justice of the observations which they
had just heard from the highest authority m the House. If the proposal
just made to his Hon. Friend involved any sacrifice of personal station or