The Sun.
London, England, 1822-07-24 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Col POOR LAWS.
wo cllel WOOD save notice that, on Tuesday next, lie
submit certain Resolutions relative to the Law of
Sett submit

FOREIGN TRADE.
ZiFr. WALLACE brought up the Report of the Committee
nciTre psint edtgli. Trade, which was ordered to lie upon the table,
u .
pyre. t„, India Loan Bill was read a third time, and
STAGE COACH DUTIES.
LUSHINGTON moved the third reading of the Stage
egulation
some words from Mr. Alderman Woon and Mr.
sse ittIIGTON, in reply, the Bill was read a third time, and
and he New South Wales Trade Bill was read a third time,
'sued.
pad Malt Duties' Collection Bill was read a third time, and
ru
Ftellte Greenland Fisheries' Bill went through a Committee.—
pt t to-morrow.
foni„W. WYNN presented a Petition from Bertrand Mit.
Of .459., one of the Commissioners of Inquiry into Courts
t,.uustice in Ireland, complaining of certain charges broughter
tein4 him by Chief Baron O'Grady, in his letter to the Und
eerer.
Lika, --tY of State for Ireland, and offering to disprove the
of these charges by evidence at the bar of the House.—
h-"lt tbe'table, and ordered. to be printed.
torii,e,hish Commercial Credit Bill was read a second time.—
Trittee to-morrow.
qsad ,;e Stamp Dtities Reduction Bill in Ireland was read a se.
"'me- Committee on Friday.
SCOTCH PRESS.
will* LORD ADVOCATE said that his object in rising
to LORD
for a paper connected with the case of Mr. Murray
4irtadwielt, with the general outline of which the House was
th 3' familiar. He and his Learned Friends had been
tin4geti,, with sanctioning, from undue motives, the
_prosecu.
the Borthwick, as a Government measure, though it was
ell" of Mr. Alexander, a private individual. This was
beit,ge which had been seriously made in this House; but,
ofthePattlY takeri by surprise, he (the Lord A.) was not
of the
;due able to give it such a satisfactory answer as he
givelripvise could. He was not able to state then that in
Gore L to the prosecution of Borthwick the sanction of a
Item measure, there was nothing at all 'neon-
Win.,` with the general practice of the Bar in Scotland.--
,vota-,m the instructions given upon that occasion by the
..4d-
iUl t° the Clerk of the Court of Justiciary, authorising
dikinorosecute the cause in that Court, enough would be
wltti—e4d to vindicate those who issued them, from the charge
~tain motives. It would be the object of his motion to ob-
Ae n-,!..°Py of these instructions. Having said thus much, as
wisii-prieetse object he had in view for the present.), he only
Al —A &address one word to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
to r.i,71-uetcrornby) opposite, hoping that he might be induced
thit sortie explanation of some part of his conduct in
prese"lifi'ole affair, which as they stood at present, did not
Initlivici„,ao appearance of candour, or even rigid justice to
mtise Frani the evidence of documents, to which the
Part of,Vut have access, it was now clear that in a great
wart
tothe statement made by -that lion. Member, there
Z'ter'e the least, very many inaccuracies. In Scotland,
"at p 1:1-.'s fact became apparent, as soon as the statement
tivt;:lished, it was thought a little odd that he (the Lord
cate), being in his place here, should suffer such un-
haps tto go forth, without exposing them to the House. Per.
of
Ile, in not
-"g so, he had subjected himself to the charge
for ; but if the House would only grant its indulgence
Silent W°lnerit, he would explain the reasons of his silence.
onlyindisnate4;cer was, but that silence did not arise from any
this Clouse")o defend the interests of the injured parties in
Prise. ~ but from the charges having come upon him by sur-
oron h 'lad he had any intimation that such charges were to be
ifall zito t forward, he would, of course have made all inquiry
hiteir. truth or falsehood ; and he hoped his zeal would not
liatisell aPPlying the result in the most proper manner in that
to th So far
too eq°o! as he was himself concerned, he laid no blame
lt and Learned Member, who, in the course which he
lie om as undoubtedly entitled to canvas the conduct of any pith-,
Pres-'eer in that House, more especially when that officer was
her helit d
He t that the Hon: Mem-
-43 the 0 _
.cult
and importantduty to discharge, and so far
m de ich it was done was connected with himself, '

he made no complaint. But he had some reason to object to
the Hon. Member, that in that part of his statement which re-
ferred to the Gentlemen absent, and, therefore, incapable of
defence, there was not that feature of candour, and, perhaps,
not of justice, which ought to characterise it. Having already
explained that part which he (the Lord Advocate) had in the
transactions alluded to, it was not necessary again to refer to
it ; but it was due to his absent Learned Friends to state their
share in these affairs. It was very true that in discussing the
question how Borthwick should be treated, some difference
of opinion sprung up between him (the Lord Advocate) and
the other adviser of the Crown, with whose conduct he was
now about to deal. Mr. Hope thought that Borthwick's conduct
was so criminal, that the interferenceof the Crown in his prose-
cution was demanded ; and if he was correct in that view, cer-
tainly nothing could have been more proper than to resort to
suchinterference ; for, to withhold it only because the other
party happened to be attached to the Crown, would have been a
dereliction of duty. He (the Lord Advocate) did not agree
with Mr. Hope in his view of Borthwick's case; and not consi-
dering it so very criminal, he thought the trial, which, was then
pending, would be prejudiced by any thing like Government
interference. The decision which' was ultimately come to,
the House was not ignorant of; but (the Lord Advocate)
most positively denied that it was from a wish to injure Mr.
Stuart that any steps were taken, and his failing to state so
at the time proceeded from his inability to prove, by refer-
ences, that such interference was consistent with the prac-
tice of the Bar in Scotland. If he had agreed with Mr.
Hope, Borthwick would have been tried at Glasgow ; and if
Mr. Hope had agreed with him, this case would never have
gone such lengths as to deserve the attention of that House.
—But he hoped the production of this document to prove
that, though his (the Lord Advocate's) own opinion clashed
with that of his Honourable Friend, yet they were both ac-
tuated by pure motives. Having then such ample means of
giving an answer to the statement of the Hon. Member, he felt
warranted in complaining that no intimation was given that it
was intended to bring forward such charges. He cared not
for himself, but as far as concerned Mr. Hope and Mr. Menzies,
he was obliged to say, that there was in the course pur-
sued by the Hon. Member not only no regard to common cour-
tesy, but an indifference to the, stricter laws of justice. He
was not now raising the question upon the Hon. Member's
right to meet this subject in Parliament—that he would not
deny. But where the whole inquiry. turned upon facts—mere
facts, which a latter inquiry would either disprove or confirm,
he thought that the friends of these Gentlemen should have had
some previous intimation, and, the effect of a first unjust im.
pression be neutralized. The Learned Lord then went on to
complain, that even in the mode of giving notice of the motion,
there was a want of candour. The notice was worded as if it
were to apply to the conduct of the Lord Advocate only, and
the press of Scotland, but when it came to be detailed, it then
appeared to be a studieclettack upon the whole Bar 'of §cot-
land. It was this want o candour which placed him (the Lord
Advocate) in the unpleasant situation of being obliged to listen
to charges made against his friends without being able to re-
fute them, for he was at the time ignorant of the facts of Borth-
wick's case. He also complained that in postponidg the mo-
tion for this Session yesterday, the Hon. Member did not give
some further explanation as to the precise course which 'he
meant to pursue. He (the Lord Advocate) did not wish the
Hon. Member to recede from his declaration of prosecuting the
case next Session,
_ because it was his warmest wish, as it
was that of Mr. Hope, that the whole subject should undergo
the fullest investigation.—(Hear!)—The Learned Lord con-
cluded by moving, " That there be laid before the House a
copy of the authority under which the Clerk of the Court of
Justiciary empowered the Lord Advocate to grant his con-
course to prosecutions before that Court at the instance of pri-
vate parties, and the period at which those powers were first ex-
ercised."

Mr. ABERCROMBY said it was very painful to enter
again into these matters, when to do so would lead to no use-
ful purpose. Many strange proceedings had arisen out of the
present subject, but the most strange of them all was, that the
Noble and Learned Lord, after having had an opportunity of
replying to the charges at the time they were made, should
come down at this period of the Session and enter again into
the discussion for the sake of arraigning his motives in the
conduct he had thought proper to adopt. He should not object
to the motion, nor to the production of any papers which any
Gentleman should think necessary to the intended inquiry. In
consequence of what had fallen from the Learned Lord, he
should briefly explain the course he took, and which he be-
lieved to be the plain, direct, and manly course, under such
circumstances. He first gave notice that he meant to bring
forward the conduct of the Lord Advocate in relation to the
Press in Scotland. When he did so bring it forward, he stated
to the best of his abilities and information all the facts which
connected the Lord Advocate and the other public Law Offi-
cers of Scotland with the conduct of the Press ; the influence
which the Lord Advocate possessed, and the necessary effect
of that influence having a good or a bad direction. The course
which he then pursued he should feel justified in pursuing
again under similar circumstances. But he protested against any
one having a right to arraign his' motives when so acting in the
discharge of his duty. He knew by experience as well as any
one what he was, to expect in the discharge of that duty. lie
knew that he stood upon his own single responsibility; and if,
in preferring his charges, and in prosecuting this inquiry, he
personally misconducted himself, he should do so at his own
peril. He had had experience of the course intended to be
pursued towards public accusers, but he should not on that
account shrink from performing the task which he had taken
upon him. By his introducing the case of Borthwick in his
motion, the Noble Lord declared himself taken by surprise ;
and said, that lie (Mr. A.) had no means of knowing that the
Noble Lord was informed of the proceedings relating to that
case. As the Noble Lord himself had conducted a part of
the proceedings In the case of Mr. Stuart, he must be the
last mar .in the world supposed to be ignorant of it. He
had my 2y thrown out the case of Borthwick as one which
shewed 'the connection of the Lord Advocate and his Deputes
with the press. This had been his conduct, and upon it, no
one was warranted in arraigning his motives, as the Noble and
Learned Lord had done. The Noble and Learned Lord now
dissented from that, but he said that his (Mr. Abercromby's)
conduct was unjust and unfair, and he knew of nothing which
questioned a man's motives if a charge of injustice did not. He
had facts in his possession at the time of making his statement,
which, when they transpired, would convince the House of its
fairness and justice, and also spew the fairness and justness of
the Noble and Learned Lord's charge. 'With regard to his not
having given those Gentlemen notice of his intention, whom he
alluded to in his speech, he could not see how it was to be ex-
pected that he was to inform all the parties he might find it
necessary to name' in the opening of a case which occupied
three hours.

The LORD ADVOCATE said, he had not intended to
question the motives of the Hon. and Learned Member,,but on
the contrary, expressed himself perfectly satisfied at the man-
ner in which the lion. and Learned Member had made his
charges against him, and stated that he had nothing to corn-
plain of on his account. But with regard to the Gentlemen
who were not official persons, it would have been but fair
dealing with them to have made them acquainted with his in.
tention.

Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that had the lion. Gentleman
(Mr. Abercromby) brought forward his motion yesterday, he
(Mr. Peel) would have opposed it; but he solemnly declared
he would have done so on public grounds only. He considered
that the produttion of the papers sought for by the intended mo-
tion of the Hon. Gentleman would have been a most dangerous
precedent. Being the correspondence between a principal and
his deputy, he considered them in the same light as the corres-
pondence of a Lord Lieutenant and his private Secretary, and
that being purely and strictly confidential, were not such docu-
ments as could be published safely or consistently with the
manner in which such confidential communications should be
always held ; and on that ground only, he declared, upon 1
his honour, would he have opposed the motion of the Hon.
Gentleman.
Mr. ABERCROMBY withdrew the motion after he was
acquainted with the Right lion. Gentleman's intention, be-
cause he did not wish to create useless discussion at that period
of the Session.

The motion of the Lord Advocate was then agreed to.
Mr. HUME presented a'Petition from John Hay, cotneain-
ing of hard treatment by the Lord President Hope, and other
Judgesand Law Officers in. Scotland.
The LORD ADVOCATE said that the Petitioner had be-
haved contemptuously towards the Judges, and had been treated
accordingly.
Mr. Secretary PEEL defended the Lord President.
Mr. HUME,e*plained.
The Petition **s ordered to lie on the table,