The Sun.
London, England, 1822-02-16 00:00:00

which affected the agriculturist, it would not re-
lieve him from the pressure of burdens under
hich he now suffered.—(Cheers from the Op-
position.)—He would remain under the pressure
of the same evils if no taxation fell on him at all.
The result to which those who examined this
question would be led was, he believed, that the
amount of taxes which could by possibility bear
on the cultivator of the land in his double capa-
city of consumer and grower, was not more than
one-seventh part of the landlord's rent. But to
avoid all controversy, he was willing to tale it
at one-fifth of the rent. Now, if the taxes bore
the proportion of one-fifth to the landlord's rent,
and that rent held the proportion of one-fourth
to the value of the produce of the soil, the taxes
which bore on the cultivator were one-twentieth
part of the value of that produce, or five per
cent. on the whole. Then he asked, how could
any relief, if it was in the power of Parliament
to administer to the extent of five per cent., have
to do with the distress complained of ?—(Hear !)
—But even supposing that they were in a state
to afford this relief of five per cent. on the income
of the land, which was equal to a remission of
. seven or eight millions of taxes, it was not too
much to assume that from the numerous channels
• through which it must pass, not above one half
would reach the pockets of the real cultivator.—
The State must therefore make a sacrifice of 16
or seventeen millions, or not give relief to the
extent of Eve per cent. But it was plain the
difference to the farmer would not be so mate-
rial as to deserve this sacrifice. He must look
for relief, not to the repeal of taxation, but to the
• great law of nature. He repeated that it was not
taxation that affected the farrner—Mark-lane
in-
fluenced him more. Taxation was but a corner
of the question, and that he had demonstratedly
. shewn. His view of this was supported by the
. assertion of the • Hon. and Learned Gentleman
(Mr. B.), that even if the landlord gave up the
whole of his rent it would not assist the farmer.
Was it not therefore an insult to the common
sense of the country to say, in the same breath,
that the reduction of taxation could alone re-
lieve him ? He knew it would be said, " where
is relief to come frcm ?" His answer was, where
it always does come from"—capital was never
long unproductive. The laws of political eco-
nomy offered the farmers a better source of hope
than the confiscation of taxes—they Were in the
hands of Providence and would be relieved by
the due course of Natere. What state were
the manufactures in two years ago ?—lf the
farmer was ignorant of his true interests—c,f the
principles of political economy ; and even could
Parliament be so infatuated as to remove him from
the class of contributors to the State, it would
not fructify to him. The benefit intended to be
given to• him would be taken from him, by an in-
crease of the produce, when it would be taken
by the landlord; or he would lose it in the cons
cession of that price which he now demanded.—
And this would be the punishment of Parliament
and the Agriculturist, for yielding to the delusive
misrepresentation of relief accruing from excep-
tion from taxation, and hoping to take this, or
any other class, out of the operation of the laws
of nature.--(Hear, hear o—He would next, as
clearly and shortly as possible, put the House in
possession of the view which his Majesty's Mini-
sters took of the financial state of the country, and
the means they looked forward to of making it
tend to the general prosperity. And it would be
satisfactory to the House to know, that up to the
latest period, the Revenue continued to show an
increase on a corresponding quarter last year.—
Up to the 13th of February, being five weeks of
the present quarter, there was an increase of
202,0001.—(Hear, hear!)—The best course he
could take to put the House in full possession of
the views of Government, would be, by first ap-
prising them of the extent of reduction they had
been able to make since Parliament last met—to
she w, under the system of reduction, what would
be the state of the income and expenditure, and
what actisal surplus had been realised ; and that
would lead him to the question, of what would be
the best application of the means thus derived
for the interests of the country ? He would
make his statements in round numbers, for al-
though it was his intention soon to move for the
estimates of the different branches to be laid
before the House, he thought he could not too
soon let them know his general idea on this
interesting and important subject.—(Hear O—
ne should state what it was intended to call
upon the House to vote as the supplies for the year,
and the amounts under the different heads might
then be compared with former years, giving a clear
insight of the course they were pursuing. Thus
the estimate of supply that would be required for
the army, •ordinary and extraordinaries, was
7,748,0001. Last year it was 8,736,0001. being
a diminution of nearly a million.—(Hear, hear'.)
The Navy Estimates, last year, amounted to
6,382,0001.; this year it would be 5,500,000/.
making a diminution of 800,0001.—(Hear.)—
The Ordnance, last year, was 1,094,0001.; this
year it would be 1,200,000/. ; but it would be
recollected that last year considerable aid was
derived in this department from, the sale of
stores, which circumstance, taken into calcula-
tion, showed a real diminution equal to 100,0001.
The Miscellaneous Estimates for last year were
1,800,000/. ; this year they would amount to
1,700,0001. The interest of Exchequer Bills,
which was last 1,386,000/. would be 1,290,000/.
—Thus the total supply for last year; was
19,398,0001., for' this 17,438,000/., making a
clear reduction of 1,950,0001. This was the
actual reduction, exclusive of 80,0001. transferred
to the Navy Estimates, instead of being sup-
ported from other sources. The Estimates for
1820 amounted to 21,083,9001., compared' with,
which, the reduction in the present year was
3,355,0001. Comparing the aggregate of the
Army, Navy, Ordnance, and Miscellaneous
Estimates of the present year with the
amount fixed by the Finance, Committee-of
1819, it appeared to be 1,107,0001. There
was a saving
,of nearly two million over
last year, and 3,600,000/. over the year
1820. He would point.the attention of the. House
to what proportion this two millions was a saving
of. There were fire millions connected:with the
army over which Government had no controul,

and which, therefore, leaving a dead weight, the
whole amount under the power of Government
must be taken at thirteen millions, making the
saving of two millions 1-6th or 1-7th of the
whole.—(hear!)—having presented to the mind
of the House what the true Estimates of the year
were, he ought to state, on the other hand, that
there would be two extraordinary charges this
year. One would be on account of the disturb-
ances in Ireland, for which it was intended to
present a distinct Estimate, to the amount of
350,000/. ; and the second was a grant proposed
to be made for Greenwich Hospital of 320,0001.
These would not, however, long continue to ob-
scure the estimates. The disturbances of Ire-
land, he was happy to say, would, according to
every appearance, be confined within a very li-
mited period, and it was in the contemplation of
the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty to
absorb the charge for Greenwich Hospital into
the body of the Estimates. He should have
stated that this sum for Greenwich became
chargeable from the cessation of those sources
of revenue which accrued to it during the
war. The Noble Marquis then proceeded
to call the attention of the House to the
state of the income and expenditure, and to
shew the surplus of the former, having first
directed the Clerk to read a Resolution to
which the House had come, founded upon the
Report of the Finance Committee of 1819. The
Resolution declared that it was necessary to have
a clear Sinking Fund to the amount of five mil-
lions ; and that in order to establish that, it was
necessary to raise three millions of additional
taxes. The Noble Marquis observed, that it was
in pursuance of the wise principle laid down in
this Resolution, that his Majesty's Ministers had
acted in all that they had done, with a reference
to the finance of the country. In the statement
he was about to make, he should take the re-
venue of last year for the basis of his calculations.
The income for 1821 was 55,997,000/. Adding
to this, however, the extraordinaries which oc-
curred during the last year, and which would
not occur again, viz. the transfer of the Customs
and Excise coast blockade to the Navy, 80,0001.,
land the reductions in offices and superannuation,
&c. amounting to 150,0001., together 230,0001.,
there appeared an income of 56,227,0001. But
then the Horse Tax being equal to 480,0001.,
which was given up last year, and a payment
of French indemnities, 300,0031., which, to
the honour of France, had been paid, making
600,0001. on that score ; and 219,0001. for public
work, together amounting to 999,0001., were to
be deducted from the sum of 56,227,0001. This
left a clear Revenue of 55,228,0001. Of the
Expenditure there were permanent and other
charges on the Consolidated Fund, amounting to
31,650,0001. The interest on Exchequer Bills
was 1,500,0001. and the Estimates of the Army,
Navy, Ordnance, and Greenwich Hospital, as
before stated, made a total expenditure, exclu-
sive of extraordinaries, of 49,618,0001. and with
the addition of 350,0001.f0r Ireland, 49,968,0001.
deducting therefore the expenditure 49,968,0001.
from the total income 55,228,0001., there re-
mained a clear surplus of revenue of 5,260,0001.
covering both the extraordinary and ordinary ex-
penses of the year. On this subject he should
mselse no other observation than as regarded
India, with respect to which he expected to be
able to prevail on the Company to admit a
participation in some charges which had hither-
to fallen wholly upon this country. The East
India Company supported a body of 23,000
troops which this country afforded them an-
nually, but they did not bear any part in sup-
porting the Invalids they sent home from that coun-
try. It was evidently just that they should do
this, and although he had not yet been success-
ful, he could never believe he should long con-
tinue otherwise. He was sure that honourable
body would feel too much pleasure in contribut-
ing to the burthens of the State during the pre-
sent distressed state of the country, to persevere
much longer in refusing to admit their just claim.
Reviewing the statement he had just laid before
the House, he thought he should not do justice
to the House, nor ,to his Right Hon. Friend (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer,) if he did not con-
gratulate them on the proud eminence on which
they stood. In compliance with the resolution they
had just heard read, notwithstanding the pres-
sure of distress on the Country, his Right Hon.
Friend was able to present Parliament a clear,
undisputed, serviceable surplus revenue of five
millions. He had the gratification and the
proud honour, as the Finance Minister of
the Country, after having carried it through
difficulties of finance unexampled in this or any
other country, to be able not only to equalize
the expenditure, but to realise a credit, founded on
a clear basis of five millions surplus,—as it rested
with Parliament to use this great instrument to
regenerate the prosperity of the nation.—(Hear,
hear !)—lt would now be for them to consider
the policy of the proposition of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. Brougham)
with regard to the Sinking Fund. To do this,
in his opinion, would be to do away with that
which had been their mainstay in difficulty ;
at once to dry up the sources of public and pri-
vate prosperity. Whether they would chuse to
apply this 'surplus to support the principles al-
ready laid down and acted upon, appropriate it
to the reduction of taxation, or draw further
NOM those resources which the country, not-
withstanding taxation, possessed, it would be for
the House to decide.'-The principal object which
his Majesty's Ministers bad always kept in view
was, to support the, high credit of the country ;
and-theY confidently looked forward to diminish-
ing.the buithens of the country by reducing, the
high rate of interest. He was happy to state that
there was a fund of 155,000,000/. in the -5 per.
Cents, and no less than 75,000,000/. in the 4
per Cents. The combined interest of these
two great masses amounted to 10,700,0001. an-
nually. Acting upon the great principle of sup.
porting the public credit, if the situation of the
market should'once bring the Three per Cent.
Stock to such a point as to render it eligible to
reduce
ctuccet,he higher StdclCto the level of three.
it }vas , their intention, da to so, by
10110 -eansiderable ,saving .would be 'effected.That they
ought not to despair of this, he called

upon the House to recollect, that six years after
Mr. Pitt created his Sinking Fund, the three per
cents., which were as low as 58, rose to 97 and
a fraction ; and he did not expect any great in-
terval would elapse before they should be able,
if not to lower it to three per cent., at least to
bring it nearer to the measure. If this were ac-
complished, there would be a saving of interest,
and a consequent increase in the Revenue, of
3,700,0001. No reduction of this kind, however,
could take place, so long as the credit of the
country did not continue to remain unshaken,
as to the honour of the Legislature in main-
taining those principles upon which the pros-
perity of the country was founded. Those who
knew any thing of the landed interest would know
how little it would serve them to destroy their
faith in the national credit. If this were not
maintained the interest never would go below the
usual rate, and certainly nothing could be more
beneficial to the landed interest than the facility
of obtaining money at low interest, in every de-
partment of industry.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—He
conjured the House to consider what they bad
already had the manliness to face, and if the
moral principle was still strong by means of which
they had re-established the monied standard,
from which he hoped the country would never
again depart—(Hear, hear !)—he called upon
them with unerring hand to establish the stand-
ard of public prosperity.—(Hear !)—Standing
upon that five millions of surplus, he had to state
that it was the intention of his Majesty's Govern-
ment to enter into negociations for the reduction
of the higher rate of interest.—(Hear!)—Ob-
serve, necessity was all that was urged by the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, as a ground for
sacrificing the national faith. Necessity was the
tyrant's plea, and whether it peeped from under
the gown of a professional Gentleman, or came
from the mouth of a Conqueror, was equally ob-
noxious to the principles of honour and morality,
and he viewed it with equal horror.—(Hear,
hear, hear!)—lt was not the intention of Go-
vernment to annex conditions to this negotia-
tion, which should have the effect of fettering Par-
liament in carrying it further. He had a right
to assume that after securing the five millions and
the reduction of the 4 per cents. there would be
1,400,000/. which it would remain for the conside-
ration of Parliament to apply towards the relief of
the country. If Parliament shewed a disposition
to sympathise with the country, they would give
the whole of it towards the relief of the pub-
lic, and not divide it with the Sinking Fund.
If it were the pleasure of Parliament to apply,
it to the direct relief of the subject by a remit-
tance of taxation, it would then become a ques-
tion as to where to direct the reduction. It
being thus considered as a dry question of finan-
cial .policy, after the most anxious and mature
deliberation, he was of opinion, that as the Malt
Duty was the last laid on, and amongst those
about which there were much anxiety in the
country, as it was considered a tax affecting par-
ticularly the agricultural interest, and as it would
be the best pledge they could give of the sym-
pathy in the sufferings of the people, that would
be the best remitted.—(Hear, bear!)—lt was
therefore the intention of his Right Hon. Friend
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer), when the an-
nual Malt Tax came before the House, to move
that the world Malt he struck out, which would
have the effect of taking off the duty of one shil-
ling a bushel on that article, and accomplish •a
relief from taxation to the amount of nearly
1,500,000/. exclusive of Ireland, according to
the working of the tax.—(Hear.)—Next Session
it was anticipated there would be a further re-
mission of taxes, to the amount, of a million.—
(Hear.)—He. hoped the House- would forgive
him, if he ventured to go one step further in
tracing the progress of the system, supposing, of
course, that they would not, with a suicidal
hand, destroy it themselves before it had scope
to work. Always allowing for the intervention
of unforeseen events, the prospect before them
promised a further annual relief from taxation of
better than half a million, exclusive of the pros-
pect of redeeming the Four and Five per Cents.
The million to be remitted next year would be
partly made up by the saving of the extraor-
dinary charges this year for Greenwich Hospital i
and Ireland. As far as he could imagine, in the
next six years they would be able to remit to the
amount of seven millions in annual taxes, and

they will have reduced the debt by five millions
a year, being 30 millions sterling on the whole.
By the course which he suggested, great advan-
tages would be derived from the application of
the Sinking Fund, which would be lost with that
of 'the Sinking Fund itself, if the plan of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman were adopted.—
By diminishing the Five per Cents. great relief
would be afforded to the country, and it was in-
tended Co afford immediate relief, as he had al-
ready stated, by repealing the Additional Malt
Duty, amounting to about 1,500,0001. Having
given the House a. general statement of •the
finanCial situation of the country, having stated
the amount of the income and expenditure, and
the measures which, according to the view of
his Majesty's Government, would be most like-
ly to fructify and benefit the nation, not at the
expense of the credit and character of the
State, but in a manner perfectly consistent with
that good faith which it had ever been the policy
of Ministers to preserve inviolate, he would
contend that the measures they suggested would
afford more copious relief than could be ob-
tained from any of the destructive projects of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. But he
should not do his duty if he were not to direct the
attention of the House to those collateral means
which might be found to improve the position of
the country on, a sound and solid system, which,
improving it in all its branches, would not fail to
accelerate the arrival of that day which would
afford efficient relief to the Agricultural Interest.
This brought him to a subject that he knew to
be one of anxious interest both in that House and
out. of doors, the currency of the country.
Scarcely a Petition had been laid upon their
table which did 'not contain some sugges-
tion on' the alteration of the currency,
which was referred to.- as one of _the causes
of the piTeseitt.disiress.•' 'On this subjeCt he went
along with the Hon. Baronet opposite ; and he .

now desired to enter his protest—his most so*
lemn and unqualified protest, against doing any
thine. that might tend in the smallest degree to
shake that system, which, so much to the honour
of Parliament, and so much to the honour of the
moral character of the country, had been re-
established and consecrated by the Bill brought
in by his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel).—
Though there might have been some shades of
difference between his opinion and that of the
Right Hon. Gentleman at the time, as to the
particular circumstances under which the Bill
should be introduced, and the grounds by which
the measure should be accompanied, no mart
could be more awake to the importance of re-
storing our currency than he was, and no man
could feel more strongly than he did that the
decision to which Parliament had come ought
never to be shaken or set aside under any cir*
cumstances. Feeling thus, if there were any
thing in that which he had now to propound
that could be mistaken for an attempt to prevail
on the House to lay a sacrilegious hand on that
sacred measure, he was anxious to make it known
that he would be the last to give his sanction
to such a proceeding. But he felt that that which
he had to suggest had in reality nothing to do
with the currency of the country, when he stated
it to be the opinion of -the Government that great
relief might be afforded by an arrangement which
would, in a slight degree augment the unfunded.
debt. The House, who knew the amount of the
unfunded debt, would see that that to which he
alluded was not to be resorted to for the accom-
modation of the Government. It mattered nothing
to his Right llonourable Friend whether he ob-
tained 4,000,0001. from the Bank or not with the
object which he had in view, and God knew it
was not contemplated with a view of favouring
the Bank. He felt that it might be of some im-
portance to the Bank that he should state this,
and that he should also state it to be his belief
that the Bank might have refused that which
in the present instance they were ready to
do, if it had been solicited as an accommoda-
tion to the Minister. He had to announce that the
Bank had consented to advance on Exchequer
Bills, issued at an interest of 3 per cent., a sum
not exceeding 4,000,000/. to be repaid by instal-
ments, and to be liable to be called in at a short
notice. Circumstanced as the Bank was, it was
nothing to their discredit that they coupled the
condition he had just stated with the meditated
advance. They had been called upon by Par-
liament to execute a very important measure,
respecting the practicability of which much doubt
had existed. It had been feared that sufficient
gold not be procured to meet the demand that
would be made for it, the moment cash payments
were resumed. Under these circumstances, they
were justified in acting now as they had done
before, in such a manner as to be prepared to
meet the demand that might be made at
all points. Their conduct merited no re-
proach. -Though they had demanded payment of
10,000,000/. due from the public to them, and
though in the opinion of the Government making
such demand, they carried their pretensions fur-
ther than was necessary, it was felt that n hen
so arduous a duty as that of restoring the ancient
currency of the country was imposed on them,
they owed it to themselves to demand that every
security should be afforded to enable them to
perform the task which they had a right to` claim.
It was most gratifying to witness the result,
when they saw that the mighty change had been.
effected, not without producing considerable
pressure certainly, but without being attended.
with any popular convulsion; but above all it
was gratifying find that there was such a dispo-
position in the country to use paper ; so far were
the people from being disposed to call for gold
in preference to paper : so high was the public
credit, that he believed he was correct when he
stated that wherever gold had been sent to
the provinces, it had manifested a disposition.
to return it. That inordinate desire to possess
gold, which had been apprehended, was not
found to exist, and paper in many—in most
instances, seemed to be preferred. He. had
thought it right to say thus much, in justifi-
cation of the Government and the Bank, and in
explanation of the circumstances under which it
was proposed to make a slight addition to the
Unfunded Debt, in order to relieve the Agricul-
tural interest, by an issue of Exchequer Bills
to be called in at a short notice. He thought it
must be seen that the very nature of the measure
was such as to afford a hope that it would meet
the difficulty with effect. If any man traced the
course of the exchanges, he would see that for
some time past such a stream, he might say such a
torrent of gold had poured in upon us, that there
was more danger of the exchanges being unfixed by
the momentum of this rapid influx, than by almost
any other circumstance at present to be anticipated'
More gold had come into the country than at any
former time, and this was the more remarkable,
seeing the operation this country had sustained
with respect to its currency was co-incident
with similar measures in other parts. The gene-
ral standard of the world was much above its or-
dinary level, and he would therefore contend that
the measure now suggested would be most salu-
tary in its effects, even if the 4,000,0001. of Ex-
chequer Bills came into general circulation. It
would indeed not only feed the circulation-e-and
it was always to be remembered, that this would
take place under the controul of our existing
gold standard, but it must facilitate all the
money transactions of the country, and especi-
ally those in which the Government were likely
soon to be engaged, with a view of reducing
the five per cents. The measure then would
prove one of relief to the agricultural classes,
and do good in various ways, without endanger-
ing any one of the great interests of the coun-
try. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman, on a
former night, had very broadly laid down his po-
sitions, that nothing but a diminution of taxation
could relieve the country, and he had ee,pecially
called on the House to set their faces against any
proposition for affording relief to the a gricultural
classes by means of a loan. He (the Marquis of
Londonderry) did not mean to conteir d against the
Hon. and Learned Gent. that to res art to a loan
was consistent with the ordinary man ill of affairs in
a community like that of this country t... Such a mea- --