The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-04 00:00:00

THE AMERICAN MAILS.

not si

In reply to Mr. WYLD,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
with reference to the refusal of the persons
in charge of the mails coming by the last
American packet to allow the correspondents of the
London and other newspapers to see the files of
American newspapers until after the general delivery of
letters, that in consequence of the Noble Lord's question
he was unable to give any definite answer with respect
to it.

METROPOLITAN POLICE.
Lord DUDLEY STUART rose, pursuant to no-
,ice, to submit a motion for a Select Committee to inquire
.nto the manner of making the assessment in the several
counties for the maintenance of the metropolitan police,
and into the expenditure thereof; as well as into
the general administration of the force, and espe-
cially into the recent annual increased charge of
upwards of 35,000/. on the county of Middlesex.
lle trusted the House would bear with him while he
briefly stated the grounds upon which he
made the motion. He trusted the House would bear
with him whilst he endeavoured to convey to it—and he
promised to do so in the smallest possible amount of
time—a knowledge of the whole circumstances connected
with this most important subj,et.—(Hear, hear.) A
motion for such a Committee of Inquiry was not only
not unusual, but not unreasonable. There had been a
great many such Committees appointed, and only a few
years ago—in 1844—a motion almost similar was made
by his lion. Friend who was now on the Treasury
benches; and he hoped, therefore, indeed he had no
doubt, that he would have the support of his Hon.
Friend the Secretary for the Treasury. That motion
was, however, resisted by the Government of that day,
and accordingly no Committee was appointed.
There had now been no Committee on this
important subject for fifteen years, and he must
say that that alone was a sufficient reason for
tha House agreeing to this Committee, supposing
there were no other; because he must say, if this police
force were at all necessary, that it formed a kind of
anomaly in our constitution. When the force was first
established it was resisted, as not being altogether in
harmony with our old-fashioned notions of constitu-
tional liberty.—(Hear.) It was felt that it was neither
more nor less than an army, which was paid out of the
pockets of the people, not by money annually voted, but
by money obtained under an Act of Parliament—a princi-
ple which was not altogether consonant with their notions
of what was right and proper; and that being the case,
he thought it would be admitted at any rate
that the expense and management of this
body ought to be watched with a jealous and vigilant
eye.—(Hear, hear.) Another reason for his asking for
this Committee was that within a short space of time

the expense of the force had been materially increased,
and that a heavy additional burden had been placed on
the inhabitants of the metropolis and the surrounding
districts. It had often been a matter of astonishment

and perhaps exultation to Englishmen that there were
ea few soldiers in the capital, but they were little aware
of the fact that they possessed a vast body of soldiers
which, though of a military character, assumed a desig-
nation denoting a civil capacity.—(Hear, hear.) There
was in this metropolis an army of upwards of 6,000 men
composed of policemen-5,500 metropolitan police and
600 City police, and though they did not carry arms
with them, they were not the less an army,
for they were supplied with arms and weapons
whenever the Government thought necessary. Since
the beginning of last year there had been added to the
metropolitan police more than five hundred men, en-
tailing an additional expense to the community of
45,000/., being about one-seventh of the whole.—(Hear,
hear.) Now that might be necessary and proper, but
(lid it constitute any reason why that additional expen-
diture should be allowed to pass without some inquiry
being called for on the part of the inhabitants of the
metropolis ?—(Hear.) The total sum paid for the police
force in 1847 amounted to 329,2081., and in 1848 to
374,9291., and those sums were exclusive of the pay-
ments on account of the Superannuation Fund, and also
on account of the Police Courts. That increase of ex-
penditure was a sufficient ground for inquiry.—
( Hear, hear.) It was drawn from the people
in a way which was oppressive, because it was
unjust and unequal; and though its injustice had been
admitted by the Government in an official communica-
tion, they did not propose to afford any relief to the
people, and yet repeated representations had been made
to them to continue to do without it. The expense of
the police was provided for originally by a rate of 81 in
the pound. Afterwards, 2d. in the pound was taken
from the Consolidated Fund, and 6d. in the pour(' was
levied. In 1847 the magistrates of Middlesex raised
the valuation of the county by the enormous amount of
two millions and a half ; they raised it from 6,367,4561.
to 7,792,168/. The effect of that was to add to the an•
nual police rate paid by the ratepayers of Middlesex the
sum of 36,617/., while nothing was added to the bur-
dens of the inhabitants of other counties. This was
represented to the Government, and they felt the justice
of the complaint, and undertook to provide a remedy.
On the 30th of December, the following letter was writ-
ten by order of Sir George Grey, to Mr. Flood, the ves-
try-clerk of Marylebone :—" Secretary Sir George Grey
directs me to inform you that he has considered the re-
solution of the joint vestries of St. James's and St. Mary-
lebone, which you forwarded to him, r( questing a reduc-
tion of the quota on which the police rate is levied, in
consequence of the greatly increased valuation upon
which the county is now assessed, and I am to
inform you that Sir George Grey proposes to
introduce a Bill to authorise the Commissioners of
Police to reduce the police-rate one penny in the pound
for the year, in their warrants issued to parishes in the
county of Middlesex, provided the present assessment is
not reduced, and Sir George Grey trusts that an ar-
rangement may be made to give the parishes the full
benefit of this reduction, if sanctioned by Parliament for
the ensuing year." That was the official statement made
by the Government, and the inhabitants were told that
they would have to pay 20,0001., whereas the fact was
that they had to pay 25,000/.; that was a most extraor-
dinary increase to add to the burdens of the people of
Middlesex, and he thought afforded a gocd ground fur a
Committee. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir George
Grey) no doubt intended fully to carry out what he ex-
pressed iu that letter, for he brought in a Bill
on the subject in the early part of May,
but after being read a first and a second
time, the order of the day for going into Committee was
put off from time to time, until the 27th June, when the
Government, at two o'clock in the morning, and without
giving notice to any of the parties concerned, moved
that it be discharged. And when they considered that the
object of that was to continue on the metropolis and the
community at large a heavy tax for police, which was
generally much more numerous than was necessary, and
was objectionable in many ways, there could be no
doubt that the people had a right to complain of the
way in which their requests had been refused. He did
not complain so much of the conduct of the police as of
their number and cost. The metropolis might be as
well and as effectually protected with a much less
number of men and a smaller amount of money.
The increase of expense had been 25,0001., and the police,
for whom they had so much to pay, were not so ad
mirable in their conduct as many persons seemed
to believe, since there were many cases on re-
•ord in which the police had greatly exceeded their
duty and oppressed the people. Doubtless, it might not
appear in this light to fine ladies and gentlemen who
were glad of the assistance of these well dressed men to
enable them to find their way to their carriages; but
such was the fact. But let the House inquire whether the
people were of the same opinion, and if they spoke the truth
they would say that wherever there was a policeman there
was a petty tyrant.—(Cheers.) When it happened that
there were no other witnesses to an offence besides
policemen. they were most unscrupulous in their
testimony; and yet, upon the uncorroborated testimony
of a policeman men were convicted and sentenced to
the most degrading punishments. In saying this he did
not speak without the book, since he could show that a
man was sent for trial, charged by a policeman with the
most horrible offence, and that the jury, after hearing
the ease fur a few minutes, stopped it, and acquitted the
defendant. By the returns it appeared that from 60,000
to &4.,000 were continually taken into custody and charged
with offences, but the fact that out of that number
2,000 were discharged showed how ill the police dis-
charged their duty. Now this was a state of things
that ought to be looked into, and if the House were
to inquire into the matter they would see
why the number of police was so much larger than it
should be ; why it was kept up like a large army in:1849,
when there was peace and quiet. Indeed, the Govern-
ment said, because there were apprehended dis
turbances in 1848, they were unwilling to allow
the number of the body to be diminished,
But they should be diminished in number, because their
present extent interfered with the comfort, and liberty,
and character of the people. The effect upon a people
thus constantly tyrannised over must be bad. He thought
they should inquire into all these things, and if it
could be shown that they behaved perfectly well, or
that the police force was kept up cheaply, and that it
was inexpedient on public grounds to have a diminu-
tion of their number, why, then, the people
would be satisfied to pay for them.—(Hear.) But let the
Government bear in mind that they were not taken by
surprise upon this matter, since notice had been given
by his Honourable Colleague, who he regretted was
unable to attend from ill health at the close of last
session. He might occupy the House longer upon
this matter, but he felt that he should stand a greater
chance of the motion meeting with its approval, if he
were, without further preface, to move it.
Sir G. GRET said that he thought there was but one
opinion in the House with regard to the metropolitan po-
lice force as to its real value and efficiency. He did net
think it neces3ary to enter very fully into the statements
of the Noble Lord who had brought forward the
present motion. With regard to the imputations which
the Noble Lord had thrown upon the conduct of the
members of that force, he could only say that in eases
where they had been detected in the practices which the
Noble Lord charged upon them, and where the magis-
trates did not punish them, the Commissioners of Police,
sanctioned by the Secretary of State, had always
availed themselves of the summary power which they
possessed, and discharged the men. With refer-
ence to the motion of the Noble Lord, he did not think
that he had laid sufficient grounds before the House
to justify the granting of a Committee. He had con•
fined himself entirely to empty allegations, and had
produced very little evidence to support them e and
in those very allegations there was nothing
new. A similar inquiry to this, which was sought
for, had been gran'ed in the year 1834,
and the result ha d been to satisfy the House and the
public at large that the management of the police
force wascarried on in the beet possible

manner. No difference had taken place in the manage-
ment of the force since that inquiry, and he could not see
any reason why another inquiry should be granted. With
reward to the increase of the expenditure, and of
the number of the force, he was willing to
afford all the information in his power,
and that would 133 desired by the Noble Lard.
The original Act required that the expnses of
this force should be paid by a county rate of 3d. in the
pound ; and by a subsequent Act 63. in the pound
was fixed, and in cases were this was not sufficient the
Treasury was authorised to supply 23. in the pound; and
50,000/. was now paid from the Consolidated Fund. The
counties included in the metrop blitan rate were Middle-
sex, part of Sussex, Surrey, Kent, Essex, and Norfolk.
Some of the counties were below the average of the
property-tax valuation. Kent was 22 1-13th below the
average. The Right Hon. Baronet then concluded by
moving, as an amendment, for a return of the increase
of streets and houses in the metropolitan district, and
also of the populatio❑ in the same, with a view to
account for the incrca-e of the police expenditure.
Mr. BRO MERTON said the Noble Lord had
brought forward this motion with reference to the in-
terests of his cons,ituents in the borough of Maryle-
bone, and protested against the injustice of this rate;
but instead of the rate being unjust in the case of Mid-
dlesex, of Mary lebone, it was still more unjust towards
other counties, and it was on that ground he should
support the motion of the Noble Lord for a Committee
of Inquiry, which he considered absolutely necessary.
In the county of Middlesex the rates were 6,500,000/.
Mr. OS BORNE-7,500,0001.
Mr, 8110 MERTON—Lane ishire was assessed at
more than that sum. In Marylebone the expense was
21,0001. a year, and in Manchester it was 29,0001.; and
in addition to that, they had to pay towards the general
expenses of the police to the relief of the inhabitants
of Marylebone. He hoped the Noble Lord would per-
severe in his motion for a Committee of Inquiry, and
he should feel it to be his duty to give to him his best

support.
Mr. OSBORNE regretted that the Noble Lord who
brought forward this motion had led the House to be-
lieve that this was an attack upon the metropolitan po-
lice, and he hoped they would not go to a division on
the question with an impression of the kind. He did
not agree in the calumny which the Noble Lord had
thrown on the metropolitan police, because he believed
a more excellent and more efficient body of men could
not be. But, in the motion of the Noble Lord with
respect to the increase of 35,0001. on Middlesex, for
the police force, he entirely concurred. Instead of
6,000,0001. a year, the county was rated upwards of
7,000,0001., and with a surplus of 61,0001. in the hands
of the Commissioners of Police, he was at a loss to know
why the county should be thus heavily rated. This was
not intended by the constituents of the Noble Lord as an
attack on th® police, but they wished to be relieved

from this additional charge.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE did not think the force adapted
to the duty they had to perform in the district between
Woolwich and Kingston, which was thinly inhabited,
and could not be protected by the few policemen ap-
pointed to perambulate that district; and in tact depre-
dations had been committed to a great extent without
the constables being at all aware of it. To prevent this
they ought to be mounted, which would afford them
greater facilities of detection.
Mr. HUME said he objected to the grounds upon
which the motion was founded. It should be recollected
that this force cost 328,000/. a year, a part of which
was contributed from the Consolidated Fund, which he
thought a bad principle, as any expenses incurred for
local purposes should be supplied from local funds. He
thought these ought to be made to ascertain whether
those expenses were fairly expended, but he did not
think there was time this session, and the Noble Lord
should be satisfied that the Government bad called for
preliminary information. Ile did not agree with the
Noble Lord In the condemnation which he passed upon
the police, but if he persevered in his intention of di-
viding he should vote with him.
Sir DE LACY EVANS said there were just grounds
of complaint on the part of several parishes against this
charge. At present the sixpenny rate must be levied,
although only twopence might be sufficient, and he
hoped the Government would consent to an inquiry
into this absurdity and injustice. It the additional sum
was required, one-third part should be contributed from
the Consolidated Fund.
Sir G. GREY explained.
Sir J. HOGG said the Government had given an as-
surance that a Bill would be introduced to relieve the
metropolitan parishes from the burden that when a four-
penny rate would be sufficient, a sixpenny rate should
not be levied, but they afterwards abandoned it. He
thought it was but fair each locality should support its
own policf,, but the metropolitan pollee were sent on
duty to all parts of the country, and on that ground a
contribution should be made from the Consolidated
Fund.
Sir G. GREY said the grounds on which a motion of
the charge of this force was borne by the Consolidated
Fund was, that the metropolitan police were employed
at the Houses of Parliament and by the Government,
and not because they were sent into the country, for on
those occasions the expense was borne by the locality to
which they were sent.
Mr. rriloßN ELY said he hoped if a Committee was
appointed, that county Members would 6o pt.e.d upon
it to defend the interests of their constituents from the
burthen imposed upon them by the contribution to this
force from the general taxation.
Lord D. STUART replied. He said it was true that
the expensa of the police when employed in the country
was borne by the locality to which they were sent, but a
larger force was maintained to enable them to draught
them to the country on these contingencies than would
be otherwise necessary. As he had received no assur-
ance from the Government that they would provide a
remedy for this grievance he should divide the House
upon the motion.
Lord R. GROSVENOR said, as the Noble Lord was
determined to divide, he should vote with him.
The H. use then divided, when there appeared—
Fur the motion
Against it ... 137
Majority
THE PEOPLE'S CHARTER.

Mr. MUNTZ presented a petition, numerously signed,
from places in the county of Warwick, in favour of the
People's Charter.
Mr. FOX presented thirty-six petitions from various
places to the same effect.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR having presented a number of
petitions from Nottingham and other places, then pro-
ceeded with his motion to the following effect :—" That
this House, recognising the great principle that labour is
the source of all wealth—that the people are the only
legitimate source of power—that the labourer should be
the first partaker of the fruits of his own industry—
that taxation without representation is tyranny, and
should be resisted, and believing that the resources of
the country would b 3 best developed by laws made by
representatives chosen by the labouring classes, in con
junction with those who live by other industrial pursuits
—that, iu recognition of the above great truths, this
House adopts the principles embodied in the document
entitled the People's Charter, namely, annual elections,
universal suffrage, vote by ballot, equal electoral dis-
tricts, no property qualification, and payment of Mem-
bers." He was aware, he said, of the disadvantages
under which he laboured in bringing forward his mo-
tion ; but it was the cause of justice, and he would not
shrink from doing his duty. He contended that
great questions such as these, affecting, as they
did, the vital interests of the people, ought
to be discussed sessionally, and if they were to be
opposed, let them be opposed by sound argument and
not put down by brute force. Applications were made
to him to withdraw his motion, in order to allow the
motion of the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire to
proceed; but he felt he would not be doing Justice to the
labouring classes had he postponed his motion on any
such account. He contended that any question affecting
the people ought to be discussed sessionally. The Irish
Catholics had discovered that no good was done them by
emancipation, so it was with the Reform Bill in this
country, for no sooner did the party who carried that
measure get into power, than they forgot and abandoned
the people. Every Hon. Member must be made aware
that that House was divided into classes, into officers of
the army and navy, bankers, merchants, traders, and
lawyers, all of whom believed that the interests of the
working classes were opposed to theirs. Ho contended
that if labour was fairly represented it would conduce to
the' prosperity of all classes. Labour was now the great
question on the continent, and although the state of
countries there may be urged as a reason for making no
concessions, he denied it was just to do so, If France he
referred to, he should quote that country in favour of his
argument; for they had had two elections for an Assembly
and one for a President since the revolution, without any
convulsion having taken place. lie should not detain
the House at any great length; for probably he should
be without one before ho concluded his speech; but be
that as it may, he should discharge his duty. He con-
tended that reformation never led to revolution. Ile
produced the original charter, drawn up by Daniel
O'Connell, and signed by J. A. Roebuck, C. Hindley,
and others, the only difference being that annual Parlia-
ments were preferred before triennial. He denounced
the Irish Members as " lickspittles," who supported
Government on every question, but absented themselves
on the present occasion, when the interests of the people
were at stake. He contended that if they had annual
Parliaments they could settle annual accounts with their
constituents, and not allow political tergiversations to
go on for years, as happened under the present Parlia-
ment. Instead of having that hasty legislation they now
had, men would know what they came into Parliament
for, and instead of having important questions settled by
majorities: of 50 or 60, they would be discussed by
the people at large. He remembered a signal instance of
the value of annual Parliaments. At a time when it
was proposed to dissolve Parliament a question was
brought forward for the liberation of all p &deal
offenders, .and was only lost by a small majority—whereas
after the election was over, the question was again
discussed, and negatived by a large majority. That
showed that when they were about to appear hetore their
constituents, they held opini 'us which they thought
would obtain them favour, but the moment that was
pas!., they aet them et defiance. One great object would
be obtained by holding annual Parliaments. What did
they legislate for, but the mind of the day? and was
not seven years now of greater {length—if he might say
so—than a century in the old Tory times? HQ rose just
now unde r very unfortunate circumstances. He had no
monster -petition, no popular demonstration to back him,
but let the im not take that as a sign of the times against
him; for the fact was, that the people, disgusted with the
mode in which their petitions were received, had resolved
to pa, dtion no more. The absence of petitions was a
proof that the people had lost all confidence in that
House.. His object was to obtain a fair representation
of the whole people in that House, At present there
was only a representation of classes. It the working
class' ?s wore admitted to their fair Share of representation
in th at Hc use, andjac:iicipationin the privileges of go-
venraient, -yvould that ? He thought