The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-21 00:00:00

'o Hole "1,-,4 hoghter ) ennl4
he, us an English Mmtnia,r, v,!e et all, unless it were
U!ven as a vote of confidence? Th, Ch.:ricel or of the
.Exchequer had told them that this rate in aid was for
the purpose of saving the lives of the people of Ireland.
—(Hear.) He presumed that the Right lion. Gentleman
y_ould not have made that statement unless it were true.
The measure might be objectionable in principle; but.
When they considered its object, they must not stand tot,
strictly upon the principle of the measure.—(Hear.) lie
Wished to give Ireland equal justice and equal laws, but
he, at the same time, was anxious to be just to the people
of this country, by imposing upon all parts of the United
Kingdom equal taxation.
Mr. SCULLY said, that however lengthened might
be their debates on this most important subject, he did
not consider that the time would be wasted. The Hon.
Gentleman proposed that there should be a rate in aid
fora year and then an income-tax; why not let them
have, both together, and then they would know the worst?
He did not consider Ireland to be at this time in a state
to be further taxed: he therefore should opposed both
an income-tax and a rate in aid. Before either were
agreed upon, the resources of Ireland ought to be in-
quired into; and sure was he that the result of such
an inquiry would be a conviction that this was not
the time to impose additional taxation upon the
people of that country. There were other funds
in Ireland which might, in his opinion, fairly be
applied to the relief of the destitution in that
Country. He thought, for instance, that a portion of
the rich revenues of that monster evil, the Irish Church,
Might, as a matter of justice, be so applied. Originally
5e-third of the tithes were devoted to the support of
e poor; and when could a better opportunity be found
for the re-establishment of that principle in Ireland than
at the present moment?—(dear, hear.) Then there
Was the large sum derived in the shape of income-tax
from Irish property, which might be also justly applied
to the same purpose. These and other matters would,
at all events, form a fair subject for inquiry by a '
Com-
mittee. He had hoped that the Noble Lord at his re-
cent interview with Irish Members would have stated
his intention of abandoning the proposal of a rate in aid,
and of charging the funds he had just alluded to with the
relief of the existing distress. But he, as well as others,
bed been sadly disappointed with the result of that inter-
*view. The fact was that the Government, in order to
deal successfully with the present crisis, must change
their course. All parties in that House seemed to be
agreed that a more energetic policy Wag necessary for
Ireland. He had lately come from that country, and it
Was really melancholy to witness the despondency which
prevailed among all classes there in consequence of the
neglect of Government. They had hoped that the Go-
vernment would long before this have taken an opportu-
nity of proposing some of those comprehensive measures
about which they talked so loudly when in opposition; but
they had now lost nearly all confidence in the Govern-
ment. He implored them. however, to change their course
•—to bring forward again the great question of the Irish
Church, and to adopt in other respects a generous
course of policy towards that unfortunate country.
Colonel DUNNE said that te Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had last night expressed his gratification at the
speeches of the Hon. Members for Kerry
.and Long-
ford. He (Colonel Dunne) could not share in that gra-
tification; but he did not wonder at the Right Hon.
Gentleman's surprise at seeing Irish Members rushing
with open arms to meet taxation. For his own part,
he objected both to an income-tax and a rate-in-aid,
because he did not consider either of them consistent
with the spirit of the Act of Union. Should the Go-
vernment accede to an inquiry as to whether additional
taxation was consistent with the Act of Union, and to
what extent, he was quite prepared for any amount that
'night be considered fair and necessary; but until they
did that he should vote not only against any income-tax,
but against a rate in aid as well, leaving the respon-
sibility of the consequences upon her Majesty's Minis-
ters.—(Hear.) He was not alone in objecting to an
income tax for Ireland. Stong objections, which were
fully as applicable now as then, were state,l to it in 1545
by Sir R. Peel, Lord Palmerston, and Mr. Goulburn.
(Here the lion. and Gallant Member quoted the senti-
ments of the Members he had named.) The Hon.
Member for Bucks had last night spoken very severely
of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, for
what he called the "unconstitutional" interview with
the Irish Members. If the Hon. Member was correct as
to the interview being unconstitutional, the Irish Members
were equally liable to the condemnation with the Noble
Lord, and he (Colonel Dunne) was quite ready to bear
his part of the blame. But he did not think it was
unconstitutional ; and he thought moreover that if
the Government were more frequently to consult the
Irish Members on Irish subjects, it would be better
for both. But with reference to that particu
interview he did not think that the Irish embers
had much to boast of. The Noble Lord had given them
merely a choice between the dagger and the bowl—
(blear, hear)—between an income tax and a rate in aid;
whereas, as he had said, he as well as other Irish Mem-
bers were equally opposed to both. Not because they
were unwilling to pay their fair share of taxation, but
because they wished the taxes to be readjusted first.—
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Kerry had said
that the proposal of the rate in aid had been introduced
under circumstances very unusual. On the contrary,
he (Colonel Dunne) thought that the introduction of
the measure was in perfect accordance with the
whole conduct of the Government on the subject of
the Poor-law. They had introduced a measure for
allowing out-door relief to the poor of Ireland, con-
trary to the opinion of Mr. O'Connell and of the com-
missioners, who had previously conducted an inquiry
into the subject; and they had introduced this rate in
aid exactly in the same way, contrary to the opinion of
a large body of the Irish Members, as well as contrary
to the opinion of their own commissioner, Mr.Twisleton.
—(Hear.) The time at which this proposition was
made was most inopportune. Ireland was suffering
deeply from the effect of their commercial changes, and
on looking to the present prices of corn and to what
they would probably become, the actual reduction in the
value of the produce of Ireland could not be estimated
at less than 6,500,000/. Instead of exporting corn to
Liverpool, the Irish merchants were absolutely preparing
to import it from America. Add to this the loss
sustained from the failure of the potato crop, with the
consequent losses on feeding pigs and cattle, which had
not been estimated too highly at 42,000,000/., and they
might hesitate before they thought this the most proper
time to put an income-tax on that country. He could
not understand how his Hon. Friends (Mr. Herbert and
Mr. Fox) could vote for an increase of taxation, but if
'on a readjustment of the taxation it appeared that
Ireland did not bear her stipulated proportion in accord-
ance with the terms of the Act of Union, he and every
other Irish Member would be quite ready to submit to
. .any burdens which it appeared right that they should
pay. The revenues of Ireland were no less than
4,400,000/. It was obvious she did not require such
a sum for her own purposes. Her military esta-
blishment this year would coat nearly 2,500,0002., but
it was quite unfair to keep up such an army to en-
force the poor-rate in a country so obedient to the law
as Ireland for the most part was. The analogy be-
tween the rate in aid and the Scotch tax of which the
Chancellor of the Exchequer spoke, and which the
Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) had referred to, did not
bold, because, as he (Colonel Dunne) was informed by
the Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume), that tax
had been imposed in accordance with the old Scotch
law. The fact was they must make large and radical
changes in the whole of the Irish poor-law. The cost
of its 'administration was enormous. Last year they
laid out 700,0001., of which 500,000/. went to feed the
people, and 200,000/. to pay the poor-law officials. With
such a system the rate in aid must be eternal. With all
that had been said against the potato, he very much
doubted whether it was not better than cereal food,
and he thought it impossible by any system ,of al
ternation of crops to support the people on the western
coast, exposed as it was to the winds from the Atlantic.
Under any circumstances, such a system could not be
the growth of a year, and meantime the people would
suffer from the want of food. The same objections
applied to the propositions for facilitating the transfer
of estates and to the formation of Parliamentary titles.
The latter was no new for it had been tried re-
peatedly since the days of Elizabeth
and Cromwell, not
to go further back the
andsuccess which had at-
tended it was not such as to make
hoar)ehem wish for a repe-
tition of the experiment.—
(ueaMr. BANKES said he would, in
why
he
a few words,
onfor
i
give the reasonsNobleceuld
not
Lord, the
vote
the proposition of the
grounds it had been submitted to the House, and at
the same time his intention to vote for the amend-
ment of the lion. Member for Kerry (Mr. Herbert),
though he .could jnot contemplate the possibility of its
being adopted for the discouragement and difficulties
thrown by the Government. tn the way of those Irish
Members who would otherwise have given it their sup-
port. After the intimation of the Noble Lord, and the
strange way in which it had been given, that i
amendment was carried he should consider it his dutyot
to
but which might
nature of which he did n
snake additions to it, thel be understood to point to
state,
fresh taxation for Ireland, Irish Member could run
amendment; but not being de-
the risk of voting for the.
tarred by ld give that amend-
the responsibilitttaching to rresentatives
fr,2ln Ireland, he (Mr. Banked) wou
"sent his support. lie was
.not prepared to sit still and
es better suited to the
see the Irish people starving ; and Government must
either carry out other
emergency, or into other measures
srthde arrangement
fall, and relief taunt be administers un eastgtehme re ncti r must
tances. It would be with great gri
:44 fixed on Ireland. When the CB
ienfehoe et a axnwianseeptnreo"-
rosed for three years longer he had concurred
eixntetnhde
PrProposition of the Hon. Member for Montrose
oposition to Ireland. But ho would exempt that part of the
empire from the tax so long as famine continued; it
the
give him great pain to vote for the eXtension of
the .eonie-tax to Ireland at a moment like this, when
e Irish Members declared not only that famine existed,
brit that their condition had been deteriorated, as stated
y the
raoorpetiolin ofon. Member fur Portarlington, by the unhappy
a change which had subjected Ireland to
i)e , severe inflictions than ever this country had ex-
nen
the ced•—(Hear.) This was not the time to add to
taxation of Ireland; and it was not too much to ask
of
br,e 6_l3e Government that they should have waved for the
nt some of those economical principles which alone
st°tUj I_
uin the way, namely, to furnish money to Ireland
LorduU fixing any new taxation on the country.
J. RUSSELL—You opposed that.
Bide f BANKES—He was not aware that from his
b the House anything such as he referred to had
bo,f opposed. Had the Noble Lord continued the im-
''Osnties on corn, he would have had a revenue which
Auld have produced last year 900,0001. applicable to
of
which in Ireland, and operating as a remedy to the evil
The the Hon. Member for Portarlingtou had spoken.
tatteehte Lord would not evade any promises he had
piecit, but it would have been well had he given no rash
tit,,,,gbes• If a remedy of easy application were to be
1%4, t, wily not double the rate of postage ? The
m that source would not be doubled, but
200'0001•f or 300,000/. might be realised, which was

,It the G wernment said they wanted for the
resent ern erg Hai he not as much right to
s,k the tuonernists of that House to adopt that propos'
iou us they had to ask him to vote away the money of
ids constituents, who could not pay it without adding to
the sufferings they already endured? The present oc-
cupants of. the Treasury benches used in Opposition to
taunt the Government with having produced the un-
happy disunion in feeling which existed between the
tin-
habitants of what ought to be a united empire. T
people of this country were becoming the creditors of
the people of Ireland, and were to have the right of
seizing for the present advances the stocks and crops of
their debtors, the people of Ireland. Such was the po-
sition in which the Government had placed them when
it asked them to live in friendly brotherhood. He
could not, therefore, consent to advance money on
the rate in aid, denounced, as it was almost uni-
versally, by the Irish representatives. If the English
representatives had to refuse money for those who re-
quired to be relieved, they refused it because the Go-
vernment did not ask it as they might, entitling Hon.
Members to give it not ocly readily but cheerfully, with
the sanction of their constituents. With respect to the
plan propounded by one of the greatest authorities in
that House, and which had been received with the re-
spect with which everything from that quarter ought to
be received, ho regretted that so much commentary had
been made .on that plan, aid he thought the Hon.
Member for Cockermouth had occupied the time of the
House rather unnecessarily, by going over a scheme al-
ready made known so far as expedient. The present
question was a narrow one—could the House grant money
on the terms proposed by the Government ? To that
proposition he must, in one word, say no.
Sir L. O'BRIEN could not suppose the Noble Lord at
the head of the Government turned a deaf ear to the re-
presentations of the misery which came from the other
side of the Channel. Of all Members of that House, the
Noble Lord must be best informed as to the scenes there
passing. He could not be ignorant that at this moment
starvation prevailed in many of the western counties.
Under these circumstances the Noble Lord was bound to
ask the House for grants of money; but he found himself
in this painful position, that the English Members said
they would give no more grants of money to Ireland. The
Noble Lord had told the Irish Members that they must
take on themselves the rate in aid, which inquiry had
shown would produce the most detrimental effects. Nei-
ther must it be lett out of view that the distress
extended in a greater or less degree to the most
flourishing ports of Ireland, that tho people of Ulster,
who lived on the potato as well as the people of the
other provinces had this year lost as much, in pro-
portion as the others. Nor ought the contributions which
Ireland had this year made to the support of its own
poor
to lee forgotten.—(Hear.) A poor. rate of 2,000,000/.
had been raised on a valuation of 13,000,000/. The
cereal as well as other crops had suffered. lie had made
the greatest possible efforts to introduce a system of
green crops. This year they had failed as much as the
potato.
The circumstances were such that the same
spirit of generosity ought to pervade that House as had
pervaded it in former years. He had heard with great
pain the speech of the Hon. Member for Montrose, who
proposed to throw on the Irish Members the responsibility
of preserving the lives of their brethren. If it were thrown
on him (Sir L. O'Brien) he would willingly accept the
terms. But was the Hon. Member for Montrose prepared
to throw off the brotherhood of one part of the country
—to declare that the people in Clare were not equally
the brothers of the people of England and Scotland as
they were of the people of Ulster and Leinster?—
(Hear, hear.) What more brotherhood was there be-
tween Mayo and Clare than between Middlesex and
Clare? They were all fellow subjects. He had estates
in two different unions. He had paid rates of 55.,
Sc. 4d., and again 3s. 4d. in the union of Ennistyrnon,
three rates amounting is all to lls. Bd. in the pound. If
bread were left for himself end his children, he would
abandon all rather than that the people should starve.
The landlords had to pay rates on land for which they
had not received one farthing—a provision of the
poor-law so unjust and iniquitous that the people of
England would never bear it; and unless the Noble
Lord and Secretary for Ireland brought in a Bill
to remedy that evil, they ought to be driven from
their places. If the Government brought forward
a proposition for an income-tax in Ireland ou
their own responsibility, he would sot say that
he would not support it; but, under present circum-
stances, he opposed that measure. What Ireland wanted
was a restoration of confidence. The landlords were
without confidence. The banks were without confidence.
Confidence was capital. They had capital enough in
Ireland if they had but confidence. They did not want
Parliament to send them capital if they could only have
confidence. If the farmer, the landlord, the banker, were
animated by such confidence, there would be bo no defi •
ciency of capital. If the plan of the Right Hon. Member
for Tamworth -would lead to a restoration of confidence.
it could not. be said but that it would confer very greyi
benefit, but if the plan had a tendency to frighten the
landlord, to mention it would do the greatest possible
injury. A proposal for getting rid of the impediments
which legal forms offered to the transfer of real property
would meet with no opposition from him.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. M'CLTLLAGH expressed his surprise at the Hon.
Member for Dorsetshire's disapproval of the discussion
which had arisen upon the plan proposed by the Right
Hon. Member for Tamworth. The Hon. Member was the
last man in the House from whom such an objection should
have proceeded, because it was he who, in the first in-
stance, declared his wish to know the mind of the Right
Hon. Baronet upon the subject of Ireland. The House
must recollect that the Hon. Member made an eloquent
appeal to the genius and experience of the Right Hon.
Baronet, calling upon him to help Ministers in their
embarrassments, and the empire in its difficulty.—(Hear,
hear.) Now, however, that the oracle had _spoken and
the Right Hon. Baronet's partly developed plan
had already engaged the attention of men on
both sides of the Channel, the Honourable
Member repented of the invocation which he had
made. The Right Honourable Baronet's speech was as
distasteful as his silence. The Hon. Member was as
little contented with the Right Hon. Baronet's sug-
gestion as he had been with his government when
he was the leader of a great united party un the op-
posite benches. Tho Hon. Member's conduct justified
the application to him of the words of the old epigram-
matist,—
" Difificilis, facilis, jucundus acerbus, es idem ;
Net tecum possum vivere, net sine te."
The course taken by the Hon. Member for Cocker-
mouth last might was even more extraordinary. That
Hon. Gentleman took upon himself to inform the Right
Hon. Member for Tamworth in what his plan was de-
ficient, and to suggest various matters which he stated
to be essential to its success. It might safely be averred
that no two things ever presented a more marked con-
trast than the Right Hon. Baronet's speech and the
Hon. Memb'er's commentary on it. Though the Right
Hon. Baronot's plan might fail to satisfy some persons,
every man of right feeling must acknowledge the
good taste, the sobriety of judgment with which
he opened it to the blouse, and the circumspection, eau
tion, and, it might be said, the humility of wisdom—
the attribute of Lis great experience, long habits of re-
sponsibility, and power of grasping details—with which
he ventured to recommend it to the House.—(Cheers.)
Contrast that address with the fruit of irresponsibility
and inexperience with which the Hon. Member for
Cockermout:h had favoured the House! The one was as
great a proof of overconfidence as the other might to
some have seemed to be of unaccountable diffidence.
There was hardly any one whom the Hon. Member did
not lecture, if not revile. The Ministers were pronounced
incornpeten and imbecile, and their measures mis-
chievous, whilst the profusion of praise which he be-
stowed upon the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth—
whether it were apposite or inapposite —must have been
as little regarded by their object as his censures by the
Governmetit. The sensitiveness of the Right Hon.
Baronet must have been wounded when tho Hon.
Member m ade an infelicitous illustration of the influence
of his plan, by a reference to the contracts which had
been brok an in consequence of its promulgation. In
short, the Hon. Member attributed to the Right Hon.
Baronet tb a intention of rigging the land market, and
thus defeating the very object which ho had in view.—
(Hear, hoar, and laughter.) The allusions which the
Hon. Mem leer for Cockermouth made to the evidence
given beforo the committee on the Poor Law called for
some observation on that point. The evidence of Jar.
Twisleton was deserving of every consideration ee
=count of the office which he bad so ably filled,
and which he had resigned rather than administer
the law for levying a rate in aid. Fortunately, how-
ever, Mr. 'rwisleton gave his reasons for objecting to a
rate in aid; and any one was able to estimate the force
foewonforatuchrltedeimnfeug.nsida ttaiTr. Twisleton frankly declared that his reason
ahakeieds
tawanbayisl
tptyha
arottf he
ec obelievednconnexion administering
itohne measure'
between
atawsleuaerwne
irateggteorintt
the two es.
yUouPnong%tth
anda point e
xh op e
r(
ilernrc.
Irishul
high),
representati re in that House, was as competent to form
an opinion ss Mr. Twisleton, and he totally differed from
the view which that gentleman took of the subject. There
was no proof that the opinions expressed by the repre-
sentatives of Ulster were shared by the mass of the
Irish people,. No petition against the measure had ema-
nated from any great public meeting south of the Boyne.
With the exception of Belfast, no great town had
petitioned a gainst the rate in aid, whilst Dublin and
Limerick h: id petitioned in its favour as contrasted with
an income- tax. With scarcely an exception the Ca
thelic clergy had pronounced in the same manner. Mr.
Twisleton's sole hope for the future rested on the revival
of the potat o crop, and he would have the people of Ire-
land depend in the mean time on supplies from the Im-
perial Exchequer. Nothing could be more fatal than to
teach the yeople of Ireland to rely on that root, which
had proved the greatest traitor to them, and which had
made Omni alternately sponges in the hands of absentee
bstipe)ndiaTrihese
Flononnthurenblro pemrieaml Ebexrchfoor-
Liuckingha Buckinghamshire proprietor:: andduire
quer.—( an
sphear
sdn
pro
eparu.t the question on the right footing
not, nal
as well as real property, be made
ofthdaettetrhmeilnriinsgh rehe rt eh seernot
ra tni voet
liable
upon Irish ground the battle in
owp pohrpetonyr
should
suti
poor. The Hon. Member wished
which he
had
recently been
Members that if they shoulcl
toto
fitlgiehtsuovpiT: rtsgoaitnhe
that an income-tax might be
been defeated; but he (Mr.
dof them. The Hon. who
it would bi-! applied instead
nd Cockermnuth were agree
once admit tllvieartilleidnclirptilly
ingt
nogf
hptiornosri-iriearete:
undoubtedly true that
the time would come when
It was orary, and
in demanding a policy.
gbPerrslifeodr
the measures now prop
influence on the condition
cauld exert;ise no permanent
b
t no legislation would
of Ireland, :end he believed t
of that country until
osed were merely temp
capable of remedying the evi s
whom that
kept faith with their tenantry and
Ives an act of
themse
tenantry trusted, should
the Irish Members on both sides of tihne House, who
themselves bound to make
body whose crimes
common crease with others of their _
_do the justice by no longer conceiving
had reducred the people to misery—who had made
the P. 4"
people the tools of their rapacity as long as

lasted and when that crop failed cast them for support '
upon the Imperial Treasury.—(llear, hear.) Ihe land-
lords who had faithfully discharged their duties would
become accomplices after the fact of the bad men who
had deserted their country after inflicting the most
grievous evils upon it, if they faded now to shake off
;be connexion and unite themselves with the middle
and labouring, classes, who had been too long the vic-
iini.l o; bad men's crimes. Half the 'landlords of Ire-
la-:d were bad.—(" No! nun Well, the smaller the
number might be, the more easy it would be found to
deal with them. It would be said, " Will you attack
the rights of property ?" but against those rights it was
necessary i o set the wrongs which industry and humanity
hail sustained. For the sake of their country he im-
plored the Irish Members to consent to a stringent and
an unusual measure, for by_such alone could the evils of
that country be cured.—(Cheers.)
Mr. MONSELL considered that the sole question
which could be then debated was whether they should
accept a rate in aid or the proposition of his Honourable
Friend the Member for Kerry. He could not conceive
how Honourable Gentlemen could reconcile it to their
consciences, knowing the distress which existed in Ire-
land, and the necessity of funds being provided for its
relief, to oppose the rate in aid unless they were pre-
pared to support a substitute for it.—(Hear, hear.) He
must, however, say that he thought the Noble Lord at
the head of the Government had dealt somewhat un-
tail ly with Irish Members on this question. Professing
to decide it by their wishes, he had, by the course he
had pursued, rendered the decision of it extremely diffi-
cult. The Noble Lord had frightened many of his Hon.
Friends by a sort of veiled figure of indefinite taxation
which he had raised, and ho (Mr. Monsell) believed
that if the Noble Lord had dealt not more candidly, but
more openly with them, they would have been much
more able to come to a conclusion. But to those Hon.
Gentlemen who had been alarmed by the Noble Lord,
and particularly to the Noble Lord the Member for
Down, he wished to address a few words. He thought
it must be clear to that Noble Lord that one of these two
measures, a rate in aid or an income-tax, must be car-
ried; and, therefore, if the course pursued by the Noble
Lord and many of his friend' was to defeat the proposi-
tion of his Hon. Friend, they would, substantially assist
the Government in carrying the rate in aid. His Hon.
Friend who had last addressed the House had spoken as
if this measure was such as it had been described in
many of the public prints—a sort of landlord ques-
tion.—(Hear, hear.) He wished to know whether his
Hon. Friend could say he did not in his conscience
know that the adoption of an income-tax rather than
a rate in aid would deliver the farmers of Ireland
from an enormous amount of taxation which they
would otherwise Ihave to pay. Knowing, as his Hon.
Friend did, that the vast majority of farmers in Ireland
would be rated under 3001. a year, could his Hon. Friend
maintain that this was a landlord question?—(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Gentleman, after referring to a reso-
lution which had been passed at a meeting of the board
of guardians of the Limerick Union in favour of an in-
come-tax rather than a rate in aid, proceeded to say that
this was a question of a general tax instead of a local
one, and in that lay the fallacy of the argument used
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the previous
evening when he spoke of the Scotch case. In that
case, which occurred in the twenty-third year of George
111., several of the northern counties were allowed to
tax themselves for the poor, but there was no general
taxation, and it therefore did not apply to the
present question. Every precedent was against the
proposition of the Government ; and all writers on
the subject had expressed themselves in the strongest
manner as to the injustice of such a tax. Honourable
Gentlemen connected only with England were perhaps
hardly aware of the extreme disproportion between the
amount of rateable property in England and in Ireland.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer, ho believed, had
stated the former at 103,000,0001. a year, the tax upon it
being 12,000,0001., or about ls. Sd. in the pound. In
Ireland, before the potato failure, the amount of rateable
property might be valued at 13,000,0001. a year, a low
average, he admitted, but adding 15 per cent., he would
take it at 15,000,000/., which no Hon. Gentleman
would think was understated. From that must now be
deducted 20 per cent., which left the amount at
12,003,0001. The county cess on the average
of three years, without any repayment of ad-
vances, was 1,142,0001. a year. The poor-rates
last year were 1,600,0001. ; the repayment of relief
advances, 272,3211. ; and the amount charged under
Sir J. Burgoyne's Relief Commission was 952,0001., part
of which was, he believed, paid, making altogether
4,200,000/., or he might fairly state it at 3,800,000/. So
that the rateable property in England, which was
103,000,0001., paid but 12,000,0001. of taxation whilst
that of Ireland, amounting to only 12,000,000 i, paid
4,000,0001.—(11ear, hear.) Was not that a state of
things which fairly claimed their liberal consideration?
IC the representatives of Ireland consented to the ins-
eesition of further taxation on that country in her pre-
..eet distressed state, had they not a fair right to call
upoi, the House to change the policy which had already
produced such disastrous results?—(Hear, hear.) Would
the !Lois() allow that state of things which was de-
scribed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the
Noble Lord as continually squeezing all the rates that
could bo collected out of the different electoral divi-
sions to go on and make no such exertions as the emer-
gency of the case required?—(Hear, hear.) The re-
medial measures that might be adopted had been fairly
put forward by the Hon. Member for Cockermouth in
this debate, and by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member
for Tamworth, on two former and remarkable occasions.
He would refer to one case within his own knowledge
which illustrated some of the important measures that
were absolutely necessary for Ireland. At a distance of
10 or 12 miles from Limerick was an estate of about
4,500 acres. For a long period it had been under the
jurisdiction of the Court of Chancery. The tenants were
in a miserable state, and crime prevailed in the district
to a frightful extent. After many years an eminent
Limerick merchant purchased it, and by the course he
pursued the district was restored to tranquillity, and
the tenantry were, he could not say restored, for he be-
lieved they never had enjoyed prosperity before, but ren-
dered prosperous. And what was that course? Assisting
the surplus population, who had no capital, to emigrate,
whilst those who had capital were kept at home. But al-
though he had done all this for his own property, there
was at the same moment, in the same electoral divi-
sion, another estate, which had been, Heaven only knew
how long, in the Court of Chancery. Misery existed
there to a frightful extent, and in consequence his rates
were not reduced to the amount they otherwise might
have been. He wished the House would reflect on the
condition of the people living on the estate of the Noble
Lord the Foreign Secretary, to which reference had been
made in the beginning of 1847, and take 6,000 people
living there—the number in the electoral division, and
sc
ioomn poaf r ec it
it f
dwei
nt h. thatln tohf
e6fi, Or
sOtO
instance,livin g in
th ey electoral
would
nd
2,000 of these people sent to a country where they
are prosperous and able to remit money to their friends,
and the other 4,000 being in a state of comparative com-
fort; whilst in the other case, most probably, 2,000
were already in their graves, and the others were drag-
ging on a miserable existence. He could only declare
his belief that if the course which had been persevered
in so long were persevered in still, and the people of
Ireland were allowed to remain in their present wretched
condition, that House would bring down upon itself
the judgment of Heaven for not adopting those means
which wore open for relieving those people from their
misery and suffering.
Sir W. BARRON said, that under the present circum-
stanses of Ireland he could not vote for any addition of
taxation. In that country everything was hastening to
ruin, and how could this House fix an additional tax
upon a people so circumstanced. He could not agree
with the principle tbat these poor people should not
c,me to the common exchequer. Up to this hour they
had acknowledged and acted upon this principle, but
now, when Ireland, after three years of the direst misery,
was reduced to the lowest condition, they abandoned it,
and in the hour of its deepest distress deserted it. But
if he was to make a choice between the two evils he
should feel it to be his duty to give the preference to the
motion of the Hon. Member for Kerry, rather than the
proposition of the Government.—(Hear, hear.) The
proposal of the rate in aid came at a singularly inau-
spicious moment. After a loss of between thirty and
forty millions of her capital and the infliction of two
e.,i9ions of additional taxation, they proposed to impose
,r-"ler tax of 300,0001. They did this, too, at a
tile., when the agricultural products of Ireland were
debi.se.l in price at least 20 per cent. compared with
wl.s t they were five years ago. He was not going into
the fio,stion of the corn-laws; but this was certain, that
the interests of all classes in Ireland were bound up
with the interests of the landed class; and he would ask
whether, with the loss of nearly forty millions of capital,
and the depreciation of prices, this was a time to put an
additional tax upon an impoverished country? He would
remind the Noble Lord that it was because the British Par-
liament persisted in imposing unjust taxes that lost this
country the finest of her colonies. It was the unjust impo-
sition of taxes which cost a British monarch his head, and
though he did not say that the Irish people would take
up arms to resist this tax, yet certain it was that it would
alienate them from this country, and in the hour of dan-
ger it would find the error it had committed. The tax on
the North American colonies was imposed without the
pretext of representation, but in Ireland it was worse,
for the tax was imposed under the pretext of a repre-
sentation which did not really exist. He protested
against the imposition of this tax, because it was con-
trary to the spirit of the constitution, and because it
was unsuitable to the present miserable and impoverished
condition of the people of Ireland.
Lord C. HAMILTON would not have risen on that
occasion if it had not been for the manner in which the
: ituanol ldnyl
only
hree elcotne.d
intelligentNleeomn--Hon. and Learned Member for Dundalk had attacked a
number of Hon. Gentlemen, some of whom had been
con-
ductaddi-
tional euuMembersret tffor
rul
whouCrsi °nt
horegkeufswe hoasn whose manly
hadnleas nP
ti9yi
hiscourage
already
to a
d 1 well-earned, 0 e
e teeemowfbohte
hfar
et
nhreputation,hoaedcalledpublicn
e landlords
The
TFHwo
roi
sni
e.
his t 0 aonnw, dn
and
par Learned
the
h voa 1
justice to Ireland at the hazard of offending his consti-
tuents.
nTAdth.r
attacked Mr.
knewMol
services performed by the lion. Member which justified
him in thus denouncing a whole class of her Majesty's
subjects. One thing he would admit, that however
liberal in censure the Honourable Member had been, he
det
uhr
pna these: bon Ilen t
debates,ohu ,
had been exceedingly sparing in argument in his sup-
port of the rate in aid. As a specimen of the arguments
he had adduced the alleged fact, that the Roman Catho-
lic clergy had petitioned that the poorer portions of their
flocks should be excused from paying the income-tax,
and insinuated that the proposition of an income-tax was
made for the purpose of enabling. the landlords to es-
cape from bearing the burdens which fairly belonged to
them.might Now his lion. Friend the Member for Kerry
be accused of presumption in proposing a new tax
int Ireland to .
an Imperial Parliament; but those who
his 1-lon. Friend as he did would absolve him
knew lle felt as tansy other Irish Mem-
from that chare
.sours' of the (lobate en this vexed
hers did in the

question, that the time had come when eome addi.
tional taxation should be levied on Ireland. But he
felt :hat that taxation should not be in the shape of
a rate in aid, but in a mode by which the burden might
be fairly allotted. lb might be in error as to the
terms of his resolution, or the mode in which he had
placed it before the House, but, at all events, his object
was to apportion burdens fairly in Ireland, and to place
that country on a level with this as regarded the income-
tax. Upon that ground he gave the motion of his lion.
Friend his support, as he believed ether Irish Members did.
They were prepared to bear their fair share of the
burdens ; they only objected to bearing an unfair pro-
portion. With respect to the statement of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer as to the origin of this rate,
there were very few guardians who returned replies to
the queries addressed to them, and their decisions should
not be held binding upon parties who had not given their
assent to the proposition.
Mr. MARTIN said he had been acquainted with the
farmers of Ulster from an early age, and knowing, as
he did, that of all classes of her Majesty's subjects
they were most opposed to the rate in aid, he was
anxious to state publicly the reasons why he intended
to vote in favour of that rate. The distress in the west
of Ireland was such that it must be relieved from some
quarter or other. Now he knew of no quarter from
which such relief could be more justly relieved than the
immediate locality in which it existed. He objected
altogether to taking away the estates of the landlords,
as proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth. It might be very proper to take lands for
debts voluntarily contracted by the proprietor, but it was
alto ;ether different to take it for debts created by an Act
of Parliament, to which the proprietor might have been
opposed. He supported the rate in aid, because he
thought it was just that Ireland should exert itself to
support its own poor, before coming to either Eaglaud
or Scotland, and asking them to do so, and because
having listened with attention to all the objections that
had been urged against it, and especially the three which
had been urged by the Hon. Member for Buckingham-
shire, he was convinced that it was less objectionable,
either immediately or prospectively, than an income-tax.
Mr. STAFFORD said that the Hon. Member who
had just sat down was one of the only two English
Members who spoke in support of the proposition of the
Government, and if he looked at the support which the
Hon. Member for Pontefract and the Hon. Member for
Dover gave to the vote then before them, he must be al-
lowed to say that scanty as that support was it might
well have been spared. The Hon. Member for Dover
gave to his friends only a sort of half-support, for he
wished the rate to be continued merely for one year.
Again, the Hon. Member for Pontefract contended that
the Irish ought to provide for their own poor, and then,
after praising his friends the Presbyterians, he declared
his willingness to lay a heavy burden on them for the
benefit of the people of Connaught and Munster; but, at
lt
ehaev eend th
eo
inht
boi
tyaenat sohf e
those w oul dp
rseuysipeeened h e
toi s p
ebounty,ris
h . aThend
Noble Lord stated, that if it were the wish,of the Irish
Members to take the income-tax instead of the rate in
aid, ho would be prepared to favour their inclination.
The attendance of English Members on this occasion
was therefore a superfluous luxury; for, to morrow,
when the division lists were scrutinized in Downing-
street, all the attention of the Government would be
turned to the majority or minority of Irish Members who
had voted on the question; and he believed the supposi-
tion that this would be the case had led to so thin an at-
tendance of English Members. The Noble Lord having
failed, by his courteous invitation to Downing-street, to
elicit the opinions of the Irish Members, proposed by
this division to give them the choice of two alterna-
tives, and it was for them to decide whether they would
take the income-tax or the rate in aid. The position of
those Hon. Gentlemen reminded him of the words of
Prior, addressed to a lady placed in somewhat similar
circumstances:—
. Now, Emma, now, thy last refection make,
Which, thou wilt follow, which thou must forsake;
For, by ill-omened stars and adverse heaven,
No middle object to thy choice is given."
Whatever the decision of the Irish Members might be,
the House would still have the unpleasing but inevitable
duty of voting 100,0001. on account, or as a loan; and it
behoved them, as men of business, to see which alterna-
tive offered the best security. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer had stated last night that the sum he ex-
pected to raise from •the rate in aid was 250,000/. Now
the value of property in Ireland was officially stated, in a
calculation made some time since, at 13,000,000/. annually,
and the produce of a rate of 6d. hi the pound on that
amount would be about 329,000 L; but, as the Chancellor
calculated that a sixpenny rate would produce only
250,0001., the value of the property could be only
about 10,000,0001., so that, in the opinion of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the value of property in Ireland
had sunk to the amount of 3,000,0001. since the valua-
tion to which ho (Mr. Stafford) referred was made. But
he must also remind the House, that it appeared from
papers laid before Parliament, that on the 25th of Sep-
tember, 1848, the amount of uncollected rate due in
Ireland was 800,0001., and that more than 7,000 armed
men were last year engaged in the collection of rates in
anwdhtiheeh
sChancellorhewedtheot fththeeeeEexdcthtieeqeueerf had
e
read that
statements
distressed unions was becoming worse, and that the
circle of destitution was spreading. He (Mr. Stafford)
thought, looking at these circumstances, that it became
the House to consider whether the security upon which
it was proposed to advance the 100,000/. now asked
for was good.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Mem-
ber for Kerry (Mr. 11. Herbert) proposed to offer as
security for this grant the whole of the property in
Ireland which was not at present subject to the
income-tax. The Right Hon. Member for Tamworth
(Sir R. Peel), when he brought forward his income-
tax scheme on the 11th of March, 1842, estimated that
the produce of a property-tax in Ireland might amount
to about 410,000/. a year. The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had said that an income-tax would not yield so
much as a rate in aid in Ireland, and that therefore if an
income-tax were adopted some supplementary tax would
be necessary; but the Right Hon. Gentleman did not
tell them on what calculations his statement was founded,
or what supplementary tax he would propose. He (Mr.
Stafford) considered, therefore, that the Government had
not put the two alternatives fairly before the Irish Mem-
bers. He had suggested to the Noble Lord two months
ago that it would have been fairer to the Irish Members
to give them the option now afforded them. That sug-
gestion was then received with no favour; but however
unconstitutional and unprecedented he might consider
the morning party—the Irish Parliament--held the
other morning is Downing-street, he could not complain
that the Noble Lord had now adopted his suggestion.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated last night
that there was hardly any amount of deference he was
not ready to pay the Irish Members. Why, then, did he
not pay some regard to their opinions, and abandon the
rate in aid altogether? The Chancellor of the Exchequer
had stated that this tax was no novelty. He (Mr. Stafford)
entirely acquitted the Government of the slightest ori-
ginality of idea; but ho thought they deserved to be
called the Rate-in-aid Government, for they seemed to
spend their official time in seeking suggestions from
others as to what they should do, especially with regard
to Ireland. The Hon. Member for the West Riding
(Mr. Cobden) had stated at one of the large assemblies
he had graced with his presence during the Easter recess
that wheat, which, according to the last averages, was
445. a quarter, would, if the last sliding scale had been
in operation, have now realised 70s. a quarter; and the
Hon. Gentleman attributed the difference of 265. a
quarter to the effect of the free importation of corn.
This reduction of price Hon. Gentlemen opposite
would say would benefit the consumer, while it
might be likely to injure the producer. The Right
Honourable Member for Tamworth (Sir R. Peel) brought
forward the Bill which, according to the statement of the
Member for the West Riding, would now have made
wheat 70s. a quarter, and the same Right Hon. Baronet
brought in the Bill under the operation of which foreign
wheat was now admitted at a nominal duty. He wished
to ask the Right lion. Baronet and the Hon. Member for
the West Riding, whether they would vote in favour •f
this rate, which would be mainly imposed upon the agri-
cultural classes—those who he (Mr. Stafford) believed
had suffered much from the change inw the law to whichlh
tie had just referred—thus visiting with stilier
taxation those who were likely to suffer
Surely?fromte mtr-
sures which they had brought torwiard
present momeerit.
must feel the impolicy
d that the Right Hon. Mem-
ber must fall. lie hope
to vote
for Tamworth, if he were going against the
pbreorposition of the Hen. Member fur Kerry, would to tax a class on w°lifichleettliengeffeect of dimiNished
the reasons which actuated him. The Right Hon. fa-
vour the House and the people of Ireland by explaining
Ba-
ronet's speeches in reference to Ireleud had attracted a
great deal of .attention there, and no subject was so
eagerly debated as the scheme which he bad put forth,
to Effect, as he (Mr. Stafford) in a great measure be-
lieved it would, the amelioration of Ireland and the re-
generation of Connaught. But if the Right Hon.
Baronet was about to give a vote against the agricultu-
ral interest in that country, how could he expect
capitalists to invest money in land there, when
he lent his assistance to a proposition decidedly
against that species of property? It might be well for
lion. Gentlemen connected with land, who were prepared
to vote against the proposition of the Hon. Member
for Kerry, to consider that in doing so they would
vote in company with those who loved not the land and
the just influence connected with it. He believed that if
the rate in aid was carried in that House, but a few
weeks would elapse before Honourable Gentlemen
would learn from the bitter experience of what might
occur in another place the wisdom of the course now
proposed by the Honourable Member for Kerry, whose
proposition would not only exempt from taxation the
small farmers, but also the small shopkeepers in the
lesser towns in Ireland. There might be a difficulty in
arranging the machinery with respect to the income-tax,
but that would be as nothing compared with the diffi-
culty which would arise in respect to the working of the
poor-law from the adoption of the rate in aid; which tax,
like the last feather that broke the camel's buck, would
just complete the difficulty and render the confusion in-
terminable.
Mr. GROGAN, amidst loud cries for a division, said
he found himself with the opportunity, on the one hand,
of voting for the Government proposition; that course
he could not take, because he was opposed to the rate in
aid. On the other hand, he had the opportunity of sup-
portin; the proposal of an income-tax in Ireland, an offer
which he thought uncalled for and unnecessary.—
(Laughter.) The alternative presented was the choice
between two bad courses.—(A laugh.) Let the English
Members bear in mind that by their votes they bad en-
abled the Government to carry the second reading of the
Rate in Aid Bill, upon which was based the present
proposal of the Government; let them carry it if it was
their pleasure, but as he concurred with the head poor-
law officials in Ireland, who all held that the rate in
aid would give the worst of securities, he could be no
party to that vote of 100,0001. ; if it was the pleasure
of the House to vote it, let them do it.—(Laughter.)
The distress in Ireland had been recognised as an Impe-
rial calamity, and in 1646 the Noble Lord (Lord J.

Ittui.r.ll) said that " the whole credit of the Treasury
and means of the country were ready to be used, and
would, whenever they could be i.serully applied, be so
disposed, to avert famine and to maintain the people of
Ireland;" that contrasted strangely with his statement
on the previous night, that if the rate -in aid should be
refused he would allow the people to die of destitution
without making any further advanee from the Imperial
Exchequer.—(" Divide!")
Lord CASTLEREAGII though the House must feel
that many Members were placedi n a most embarrassing
laugh)—partly by the conduct pursued
by the Noble Lord, most ably seconded by the Hon.
Msnaber for Kerry (Mr. Herbert).—(" Divide, divide!")
He (Lord Castlereagh) had hoped the House would not
have been required to decide on each an alter-
native as was now presented. Would the Noble Lord
explain what additional taxation he intended to pro-
pose for Ireland in the event of the proposal of
the Hon. Member (Mr. Herbert) for an income-tax
being carried?—(Laughter and Hear, hear.) He (Lard
Castlereagh) never was called on in that House to take
such a leap in the dark. He was asked to vote for an
income-tax, not knowing for how long or in what pro.
portion, and he was, fairly told beforehand that it must
be attended with additional taxation. Unless he heard
something of what it was to be, and whether direct or
indirect, he felt that he could not give a vote upon the
motion.—(Divide, divide.)
Lord J. RUSSELL could not, consistently with his
duty, give any further explanation to-the Noble Lord
beyond what he had already stated.—(Laughter.)
The Committee then divided on the amendment,when
the numbers were—

Ayes
Noes
Majority — 48
. .

On re-entering the gallery, we found
Mr. HUME stating that it was not necessary for him
to move the proviso of which he had given notice, be-
cause he understood it would not be competent for the
Noble Lord to advanee.any money on the credit of the
rate in aid till the Bill had received the Royal assent.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the Government did not pro-
pose to advance any money on the credit of the rate in
aid till the Act had received the Royal assent. Still he
was of opinion that if any unforeseen contingency should
arise it would be their dutylo give aid from the funds at
their disposal, and then cothh down to the House with
the recommendation that it should be agreed to as a
grant. Certainly if he found that there was any chance
of people dying from famine, he would adopt that course,
and afterwards bring the matter under the consideration
of the House for their approval.
Mr. GOULBURN thought it perfectly clear that the
Noble Lord could not give any money on the credit of
the Rate in Aid Bill till it had received the Royal as-
sent. The only fund from which payments could be
made was that placed at the disposal of the Government
by Parliament; and if they expended any sum for the
relief of distress they must afterwards come to Parlia-
ment for its judgment and decision on the matter.
Mr. HUME wished it to be understood that, accord-
ing to a former statement of the Noble Lord, he would
not exceed, in any payment he might make, the sum of
5,0001. or 7,0001.
Mr. BATESON would oppose the motion because he
could not agree to any money being voted on the credit
of the rate in aid.
The Committee then divided on the original motion,
when the numbers were—
Ayes
Noes
Majority -95
The vote was then agreed to.
The Apprehension of Deserters (Portugal) Bill went
through Committee.
It was ordered that the House, at its rising, should
adjourn till Monday next.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned a few minutes before One o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS.

(From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.]
FRIDAY, APRII. 20.
POOR-LAWS (IRELAND—RATE IN AID--ADVANCE
OF MONEY.)
(IN THE COMMITTEE.)
Motion made, and Question proposed, " That the Com-
missioners of her Majesty's Treasury of the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Ireland be authorised to direct the ad-
vance, out of the Consolidated Fend of the said United King-
dom, of any sum not exceeding 100,0001., for affording relief
to certain distressed Poor-law Unions in Ireland, the same to
be charged on any Rate to be levied in each Union of Ire-
land under any Act to be passed in the present session of
Parliament :"—Amendment proposed, to leave out from the
words " distressed Poor-law Unions in Ireland" to the end of
the Question, in order to add the words, " and in considera-
tion thereof that an Income and Property-tax be assessed on
Incomes and Property in Ireland not liable to Income and
Property Tax under the Act 11 and 12 Vic., c. 8," instead
thereof: —Question proposed, "That the words proposed to
be left out stand part of the Question" The Committee
divided:—
MAJORITY—AYES, 194.
-

---
Abdy. T. N. Gronfell, C. Pascoe Patten, J. W.
Adair, R. Shafto Grenfell, Charles W. Pechell, Captain
Anderson, Arthur Grey, Sir G. Peel,;Sir Robert
Anson, Colonel Grey, R. W. Peel, Frederick
Anson, Viscount Guest, Sir J. Pennant, Colonel
Armstrong, Sir A. Hallyburton, Lord Perfect, Robert
Baines, M. T. Harris, Richard Pigott, Francis
Baring. Sir F. 'Wale, Archibald Pinney, William
Bass, M. T. Hawes, B. Plowden, W. H.
Bellow, R. M. Hay, Lord John Power, Nicholas
Berkeley, Captain Mayes, Sir R. ruse' Pryse
Berkeley, 11. F. Hayter, W. G. Reid, Colonel
Berkeley, C. L. G. Headlam, T. E. Colo
L.
L.
Birch, Sir T. Heywood, James Ricardo, Osman
Boyle, Colonel Heyworth, Lawrence Rice, E. It.
Bright, John Hobhouse, Sir John Rich, Henry
Brockman, E. D. Hobhouse, T. B. Romilly, Sir John
Brotherton, J. Hogg, Sir J. W. Russell, Lord J.
Brown, W. Howard, Lord E. Russell, Edward S.
Browne, It. D. Howard, C.W. G. Rutherfurd, A.
Bulkeley, Sir R. B. Howard, E. G. Sadleir, Jokn
Butler, P. S.l Hume, Joseph Salwey, Colonel
Buxton, Sir E. Jervis, Sir John Sanders, J.
Cardwell, Edward Johnstone, Sir J. Scholefteld, William
Carter, J. B. Keating, Robert Scully, Francis
Chaplin, W. J. Heppel, G. T. Seymour, Lord
Childers, J. W. Kershaw, James Shafto, B. D.
Clay, James Labouchere, Henry Shell, It. L.
Clerk, Sir G. Langston, J. IL Shelburne, Earl of
Clifford, A. M... Lascelles, W. S. Sheridan, R. B.
Cobden, R. _ Lawless, Cecil Smith, R. V.
Cockburn, A. I. Lennard, T. B. Smith, J. A:
Coke, E.K. Lewis, G. C. 4""--' Smith, M. Tucker
Cowper, WF. Littleton, E. R. Smith, J. Benjamin
Craig, W. G. Loch, James Somerville, Sir W.
Crowder, R. B. Locke, Joseph Staunton, Sir G.
Dalrymple, Captain Lockhart, A. E. Stuart, Lord Dudley
Devereux, John T. Lushington, Charles Stuart, Lord J.
Douglas, Sir C. M'Cullagh, W. T. Sullivan, Michael
Duff, G. S. M'Gregor, John Talbot, C. R.
lauff,:Jamas Megan, W . It. Talfourd, Sergeant
Duncombe, 0. Meagher, Thomas Tancred, 11. W.
Duncuft, John Maitland, Thomas Thicknesse, R. 1.
Dundas, Admiral Marshall, J. G. Thompson, George
Dunne, F. P. Marshall, W. Thornely, Thomas
Ebrington,:Lord Martin, Samuel Towneley, John
Ellice, Edward Masterman, John Townshend. Captain
Ellis, John Matheson, J. Trelawny, J. S.
Elliot, John E. Matheson, Colonel Vane, Lord H.
Emlyn, Viscount Maule, Fox Villiers, Charles
Easton, Earl Mitchell, A. T. Wall, C. B.
Evans, John Mowatt, Francis Walmsley, Sir T.
Evans, William Mulgrave, Earl Ward, H. G.
E wart, William Norreys, Lord Watkins, Colonel
Fergus, John Norreys, Sir D. Willcox, Brodie
Ffolliott, J. O'Brien, Sir Lucius Williams, John
Filmer, Sir E. O'Connell, John Williamson, Sir 11.
Fitzroy, Henry O'Connor, Feargus Wilson, James:
Fordyce, A. D. O'Flaherty, Anthony Wilson Matthew
Forster, M. Ord, W. Wood, 'Sir Charles
Fortescne, J. W. Paget, Lord A. Wood. W. I'.
Gibson, T. M.i Paget, Lord Clarence Wyvill, Marmaduke
Glyn, G. C. Paget, Lord George
Goddard, A. L. Pakington, Sir J. S. MUMS.
Graham, Sir James Palmerston, Viscount Tufnell, Henry'
Greene, John Parker, John Hill, Lerd Marcus

MINORITY-NOES, 146.
Estcourt, J. B. B. Mundy, William
Farnham, E. Mure, Colonel
Fellowes, E. Noeld, Joseph
Ferguson, Sir R. Newdegate, C. N.
Fuller, A. E. Newry, Viscount
Gaskell. J. M. Nugent, Lord
Gladstone, W. E. recite, C. W.
Godson, Richard Palmer, Robert
Goulburn, Henry Philips, Sir G. It.
Granby, Marquis of Pigot, Sir Robert
Granger, T. C. Plumptre, J. P.
Greenall, G. Portal, Melville
Gwyn, Rowel Prinsejßichard
Haggitt, F. It. Renton, J. C.
Raiford, Sir Henry Repton, G. W. J.
Hamilton, Lord C. Richards, Richard
Harris, Captain Rushout, Captain
Heald, James Sanders, George
Henley, J. W. Scrope, G. P.
Ilerbert, Sydney Shirley, E. J.
Ilerries, John C. Sibthorp, Colonel
Hildyard, T. B. Sidney, Alderman
llindley, C. Simeon, John
Wood, Sir A. Smyth, John G.
fiernby, John Somerset, Captain
Howard, Sir R. Stanley, li. 11.
Jocelyn, Viscount Stuart, H.
Jolliffe, Sir W. G. Stuart, J.
Jones, Captain Tenison, E. K.
King, P. J. Thesiger, Sir F.
Knox, Colette Thompson, Colonel
Lennox, Lord G. 11. Trollope, Sir J.
Leslie, C. P. Turner, G. J.
Lincoln, Earl of Tyrell, Sir J. T.
Lindsay, Colonel Vyse, R. 11.
Lockhart, W. Waddington, 11. S.
Long, Walter Walpole, Spencer
Lowther, Colonel Walsh, Sir J.
Lowther, Henry Williams, T. P.
Mackenzie, W. F. Willoughby, Sir 11.
M'Naghten, Sir E. Wodehouse, E.
Mahon, Viscount Worcester, Marquis
Manners, Lord G. Wortley, J. S.
March, Earl of Wyld, James •.
Meux, Sir Henry Young, Sir John
Miles, I'. W. S.
Moffatt, George
Mansell, William
Morris, David
Muntz, G. F.

Adair, Hugh IL,

Arkwright, George
BaMock, IC. 11.
I3ankes, George
Baring, Thomas
Barrington, yi3count

Ilurron, Sir LI.
Bennet, Philip
Beutinck, Lord 11.
Beresford, William
Illackall, S. W.
Blackstone, W. S.
Blair, Stephen
Blandford, Marquis
Bourke, Richard Si.
Bouverie, E. P.
Bowles, Admiral
Bramston, T• W.
lire►nridge, Richard
Brisco, M.

liroatliey, 11.

Broinlvi;Robert
Buller, Slr J. Y.
Eurroughes, li. X.
Charters, Francis
Chrb,ty, Samuel
Clements, Charles
Clive, It. 11.
Cebbold, J. C.
Cochrane, A.
Cocks, Thomas S.
Codrington, Sir W.
Cole, Hon. 11. A.
Colebrooka, Sir T.
enloq, 11. Y.

Compton, H. C.
Corry, Henry
Currie, 11.
Currie, Raikes
Darner, Colonel
Dick, Qulntin
Disraeli, B.

DrUMlftnlig, Vis.
Drummond, Home
Duncan, Lord
Duncan, George
Edwards,' lenry
Egerton, Sir P.
Egerton, W. T.
Ellice, E., jun.

TILLIIB.
Herbert, %lent-, A.
Stafford, Augustus

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James, who has been in command at that station since
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THE EDINB URGH REVIEW. No. CLXXX
Let all 1 idics mnd gentlemen connected with
authorcraft abstain from a perusal of the opening
article in this number of the Edinburgh, unless they
are solicitous of obtaining a heartache. The paper
is evidently from the pen of the accomplished editor,
and is entitled " The Vanity and Glory of Literature."
After going through the whole of this indirect cri-
ticism upon books in general, and English books in
particular, we must be permitted to characterize it as
one of the most depressive articles we ever remember
to have encountered. It saddens the whole heart.
It makes one sceptical of any literary immortality
beyond such colossi of letters as Homerf and Shaks-
pere, and Dante. If read, no matter how negligently,
it must effectually put the extinguisher on the
vanity of all those little minnows and tadpoles
of literature, who expect to live in the re-
membrance of posterity, simply because they have en-
dited a successful magazine story, a tolerable pamphlet
of 32 pages, or an intolerable book of travels in
three volumes octavo. Should they but once read the
contribution we are alluding to, we warrant them
they will never hold their heads up again with self-
sufficiency, or ruffle their crests with ostentation.
The precise nature of the article in question may be
at once conjectured when we remak that the obser-
vations of the reviewer are dependent upon the prefix
of that very remarkable and alarming work, " The
London Catalogue of Books published in Great Bri-
tain, witb their Sizes, Pricea, and Publishers' Names,
from 1814 to 1846"—a stout volume of 542 closely
printed pages, over which we remember well having
pored three years ago, with precisely such thoughts
as have been here so admirably expressed in the
Edinburgh. Among the happy phrases which are
scattered through the contribution, we must
not omit to mention that capital expression of " the
leakage of the memory"—an intellectual affliction,
from the effects of which we are all of us, more or
less, sufferers. It is also felicitously said that the
majority of the writers who are destined not to live
are " merely embalmed and made mummies of"—
the reviewer attaching a rather more grim simile to
books than Disraeli the elder, who spoke of them as
" eastern beauties peering through their jalousies."
Incidentally the author pays a rather magnificent and
somewhat premature homage to Mr. Macaulay, clas-
sing his name as an historian with that of Gibbon.
It should be remembered that in the " Decline and
Fall of the Roman Empire" we have one of those
extraordinary masterpieces which are intellectually
what the pyramids are physically, whereas in the
" History of England from the Accession of James
IL" we possess merely he fragment of a compo-
sition which an adverse destiny may (for all the
reviewer knows to the contrary) render as in•
complete as the preceding commencements of
a similar narrative by Fox, and by Mackin-
tosh. As a sort of sardonic consolation to those who
may be disposed to lament over the prospective
destruction of so many favourites, it is observed that
" The value of books does not depend on their dura-
bility ; nor in truth is there any reason why the
philosopher should be more solicitous about these
wasted and wasting treasures of mind than about the
death of men, or the decay of the cities they have
built, or of the empires they have founded."
There seems a horrible truth in this—though
we concede so much rather reluctantly. It is well,
and, indeed, admirably, because most truthfully said,
that, " perhaps, after all, the greatest of an author's
rewards is the pleasure of composition"—in illustra-
tion of the accuracy of which we recollect that Mr.
Monckton Manes, in his biographical memento of
John Keats, mentions of that exquisite poet that he
would write verses over night in a sort of rapture, not
caring whether the manuscript were destroyed by the
next morning. Next to the pleasure of composition
is the joy of appreciation. It is cleverly observed by
the Edinburgh reviewer that " the chief glory of all
human literature is, that it is our pledge and security
against the retrogradation of humanity; the effectual
breakwater against barbarism; the ratchet in the great
wheel of the world, which, even when it stands still,
prevents it from slipping back." The saying is inimi-
tably good and the ingenuity of the metaphor is
worthy.of Jonathan Swift. As to the character of
the conjectures formed by the critic, from such facts
as that 10,000 new German books on the average_
were, until the breaking out of the continental revo-
lution, published annually at the Leipsic fair, the
reader may judge from the following extract :
" Most pleasant it would be, no doubt, in case human
life were prolonged in some proportion with the sum of
human knowledge—to layout our studies on a corres-
ponding scale. Possessed of antediluvian longevity, we
might devote some twenty years or so (a year ,or two
more or less would be of no consequence) to purely
elementary studies and discipline ; the ' promising lad'
of fifty might commence his more serious school studies,
under judicious masters, in their full vigour and prime
of three or four centuries; and at the age of ninety or
a hundred, the young student, just entering upon life
(though as yet raw and inexperienced), might be sup-
posed to have laid a tolerably solid foundation, whereon
in the course of his progress towards manhood through
the next two centuries, he might, by due diligence and
perseverance, build such a superstructure as should"'
justify some pretensions to accurate and sound scholar-
ship.
But alas: we forgot that, even then, the old ob-
structions to universal knowledge would soon be repro-
duced in a new form. The same insatiable curiosity,
and the same restless activity, operating through 'longer
periods, would rapidly extend the circle of science and
literature beyond the reach of even such a student. The
tremendous authors who enjoyed a career of fiile cen-
turies of popularity, would be voluminous in propbrtion;
Jeremy Taylor and Baxter, Voltaire and Walter' Scott,
would appear but pamphleteers in comparison. Their
opera omnia' would extend to libraries. Novels would
be written to which the Great Cyrus and Civil& would
be mere novellettes, wherein the heroes and heroines
would be married, hanged, or drowned, after a courtship
and adventures of three or four centuries. The biogra-
phies of the long-lived worthies of such an age would
be composed in forty folios, or more; and the history of
nations projected on a scale which would render De
Thou's huge seven tomes a mere sketch or abstract. The
author who began the history of Athens by a dissertation
on the geological formation of the Acropolis, or the
work of Leibnitz on the house of Brunswick, in which
he commences with his Protogos,' would be but a type
of the prodigious gyrations of such writers; so that the
hopeless student, toiling alter them in vain,' would be
obliged to exclaim with Voltaire's 'little man of Saturn,'
who only lived during five hundred revolutions (or fifteen
thousand of our years), that scarcely had he begun to
pick up a little knowledge, when he was summoned to
depart; and that to live only for such a span is, as one
may say, to die as soon as one is born."
There is wit as well as reason in these vagaries of the
imagination. As a favourable specimen of the
writer's style of illustration, take the following:—
" The whole gigantic growth of human knowledge
and science may be compared to those deposits which
geologists describe, full of the remains of animal and
vegetable life—beautiful once, and beneficial still. The
luxuriant foliage and huge forest growth of science and
literature which now overshadow us, are themselves
rooted in strata of decaying or decayed mind, and derive
their nourishment from them; the very soil we turn is
the loose detritus of thought, washed down to us through
long ages. In the world of intellect, as iu the world of
matter, though ' vanity' is written on all things, and
oblivion awaits man and his achievements, yet is it also
sguebrlmimoet true,liflye;and ne
thatw for
in both
of gloryholie and beautyDeathisitseslpf
spring
from the dust of desolation."
In the next criticism on the " Physical Atlas,"
a deserved meed of commendation is bestowed upon
the magnificent work now publishing by the Messrs.
Blackwood from the eminent hand of Mr. Alexander
Keith Johnston. Without wishing in any respect to
depreciate the poetical abilities of Mr. Henr Taylor,
we cannot but think that his " Eve of the Conquest"
and Miscellaneous Poems are rather over than_under-
praised in the Edinburgh. The subsequent paper on
" Sacred and Legendary Art," suggested by the ele-
gant compilation of Mrs. Jameson, is exceedingly
agreeable, and gives altogether a very judicious esti-
mate of that lady's capacities as an authoress.
" Mary Barton" will surely outlive some few
years at least the ordinary duration of the
existence of novels for the circulating libraries ; for
its rude naturalness and domestic pathos have already
attracted the attention of two of the quarterlies—the
Edinburgh and the Westminster. The author may
plume himself on having, at any rate, made a
decided " hit"—whatever may be the length of his
ireputation. After a careful and searching examina-
tion of some amongst the historical misstatements
made by Miss Strickland in her celebrated "History
of the Queens of England"—there is a passing but
earnest allusion to the great work commenced by
Mr. Macaulay as a continuation to Hume or Lin-
gard. The paragraph, although brief, will to many be
almost a compensation for the delay of the substantial
criticism which is looked for ultimately in the Edin-
burgh. It rather strikes us that the tremendous re-
view of no less than 36 pages upon the Duke of
Argyll's " Presbytery Examined," would have been
considerably abbreviated in length, if not lessened in
enthusiasm of panegyric (upon the style), had the
paper
of o n
thatour "
pamphletdtr been anything less than a Duke. Upon
the extravagant notice of Monsieur Guizoes " De-
ymerneateddabilne
s.theßreesaidr:es a"
Reflections on the
De-
mocracy in France" we have
givingalreadya commented
nouanrclieaaldipnrgoscpoelcutms,n”
Political State of Germany,'
contribution, not
sketch of the present posture
vast
congeries of independent, yet enalescing
of amost seriouspe
prin-
cipalities. The remaining
ryetns a
b beingnoticed,
ains
excellent well
commentary on the recen
reforms effected in one, and attempted to be int
duced into the other, of our two venerable Universe
ties. Gladly should we h
of that suggestion of Sir ear of the general adoption
that young men should John Herschel!, to the effect
go through a course of the
Novunt Or
ganum. Gladly would we recognise the
elevation of the average
standard of information among
the pol by the carrying out of the improvements
commenced in regard to the Graces, the T • riposes, and
the. Syndicates. Gladly, thrice l dl g a y, should we learn
of the following of this wholesome advice-- " It would

be a very great advantage, were Government to invite
them (the magnates of the universities) to recom-
mend to its notice, as is done in Prussia and France,
those whose accomplishments and talents seem to
qualify them eminently for a civil career, Or for the
tranquil cultivation of science." The Honourable
Mortimer Plantagenet, and the Reverend Theophilus
Mudge, are no -mere fancy-profiler,--theree finished
miniatures taken from the life with the iividness of
callotype. Such are the eleven articles constituting
the hundred and eightieth number of the Edinburgh.

THE QUARTERLY REVIEW.
No. CLX VIII.
Everybody knows—the thing Is already notorious
—that Mr. Macaulay comes in for eighty-two mortal
pages of abuse, vituperation, distortion, spitefulness,
and sneering, in the current number of the Quarterly.
The revenge of the contributor has been carefully
bottled up for eighteen years, and when it comes out
at last, of course it is in a high state of effervescence.
And certainly when we recur to that celebrated cri-
ticism which appeared in the Edinburgh, September,
1831, we cannot feel astonished that the'editor of Bos-
well's " Johnson" should feel for a considerable time
particularly tetchy and sensitive—like that assailant
of Kompanee Jehan described by Mr. Thackeray
in a recent number of the "London Charivari,"
as being "as savage as a bear whose head is
sore." For certainly the knout of criticism' was not
spared by Mr. Macaulay ; every blow was excoriat-
ing, flaying, murderous. The writer was told in one
sentence that " many of his blunders were such as the
reviewer would have been surprised to have seen any
well-educated gentleman commit, even in conversa-
tion." He was told in another that " the merits of
-his performance was on a par with -those-of .a certain
leg of mutton on which Dr. Johnson dined while
travelling from London to Oxford, and which he,
with characteristic energy, pronounced to be as bad
as bed could be, ill fed, ill killed, ill kept, and ill
dressed.'" "This edition," said the inexorable critic,
parodying the exclamation of the Doctor, " is ill com-
piled, ill arranged, ill written, and ill printed."
Further on, after a frightful exposure of the faults
heaped together in this same Croker's Boa well's John-
son—tbe Edinburgh reviewer remarked that the de-
cisions of the editor of the biography on points of
classical learning, " though pronounced in a very
authoritative tone, are generally such that if a school-
boy under our care were to utter them,our said/ as-
suredly should not spare for his crying." When he
read that, Mr., Croker must even in his manhood
have again tingled as under the birch. The position
assumed by the reviewer placed the reviewed, to say
the least of it, in an attitude sufficiently ignominious.
He found himself arraigned before the
Tribunal of Letters upon a charge 'Of faults in
what the critic contemptuously designated " the
fourth form learning"—upon the misappnbension of
the word "puella ;" upon forgetting that Lucina was
another name for Diana ; upon using the word
Ovlrret in a sense " which no schoolboy would do
without imminent danger of a flogging-; and upon
translating so wretchedly a Latin note sent off jocosely
by Dr. Johnson to Dr. Lawrence f" si per to licet,
imperatur Nuncio Flolderum ad me • deducere"] that
he at last receives the recommendation to " give an
hour every morning to our old friend Corderius.'
. . . These things have
not been forgotten. Eighteen years roll on : Mr.
Macaulay publishes a book, a History of Eng-,
land : the vial of spleen is uncorked and hence
the bitterness which runs through the whole of
this long and elaborate attack upon the historian in
the pages of the Quarterly. The fury of the reviewer,
however, is so blind and overpowering as to miti-
gate in a great measure the effect of its violence.
He is altogether too much in a rage to discriminate.
He aims such hard blows, and so fast, that sometimes
be misses—and wounds himself. Even the first line
in Mr. Macaulay's first volume, he won't allow to be
anything else than "a pompous commonplace, that
looks like something and means nothing." He makes
a great fuss about the misapprehension of the word
Brittia in Procppius. lie
_says, "that some-
times Mr. Macaulay strains after verbal effect,
and in his effort loses the point"—quoting
in illustration that beautiful expression, " Arabian
mothers long awed their infants to silence with the
name of the lion-hearted Plantagenet" (the italics are
the-Quarterly re viewer's)-Cotttherf Yernarking, with a
kind of hysterical giggle of derision, " This is an
unlucky occasion to introduce the name of Planta-
genet, which assuredly no Arabian tar.
..had ever
heard nor tongue pronounced." As if the historian
had ever said one syllable about Arabian ears hearing
or tongues pronouncing the name of Plantagenet I
What Mr. Macaulay says is, that these Arabian•
mothers uttered the "name of the lion-hearted
Plantagenet"—in other words (as any simpleton
might see who was not actually obnubilated by
revenge) Richard. The reviewer is pleased to be
particularly droll at the circumstance that Mr.
Macaulay, instead of copying the literal words
of Burnet, that William 111. was on
one particular day " hunting," has the temerity to
remark that the Stadtholder was then " many miles
off after a stag." Upon this says the sagacious critio
—" There was probably no stag-hunt at all—William
may have been shooting !" 0, wonderful subtlety
of criticism! Probably Yea. Probably. No.
Qu'importe! Then, again, how the reviewer
catches at the minutest slip of the pen
imaginable—his eyes a-wide, and his ears
a-cocked! " The hangman addressed himself to
his office," says the historian inadvertently when
describing the execution of Monmouth. And there.
upon, roars out the critic of the Quarterly, with
a horse-laugh, betokening, one would think, some-
thing more than the discovery of a mare's nest—
" And after all it was not a'hangman, but a headsman;
and a wretched one, too"—the words being printed
in italics just to point out the joke more irresistibly.
But let the reader listen to the, Quarterly reviewer
" showing up" the phraseology of one of the first
masters of the English language. " if, says ho
derisively, " a regiment of Militia marches into
Bridport, it must ' come pouring ire " of
course it must, say we. •If many wit-
nesses appeared on the Popish plot," he
exclaims again, all a-gog with an astonishment, the
cause of which we can't for the life of us make out,
" they come 'pouring forth' "—of course they do !
And he authenticates those wonderful discoveries—
be sure of that—he authenticates them. The one
about the militia, says he, is Vol. I. page 576. That
about the witnesses, is Vol. I. page 237. Yet the
writer is not altogether too cross to be dull—the very
fire of his indignation heats him now and then to the
saying of a good thing—as when, after quoting Mr.
Macaulay's remarks about " the infamous Ti-
mothy Hall," and the " not less infamous
Parker," about the infamy of Williams, and the
infamy of Writ. , ab is observed---" Every great
painter is supposed to make a large use of one parti-
ticular colour. What a monstrous bladderful of
infamy Mr. Macaulay must have squeezed on his
palette when he took to portrait painting " Spiteful
as the words are, yet they are capital to us—they
have the genuine ring of wit. As to the wholesale
charge of plagiarisms, made by the Quarterly--
pillagings from Mackintosh, and from Joinville, and
even self-robberies from the " Lays of Ancient
Rome,"—it is absolutely preposterous. The absurdity
of the accusation has been so triumphantly disproved
elsewhere, that we only now refer to it
for the sake of calling our readers' attention to
the examples paraded by the Quarterly in pages
604, 605, and 606. If the employment of kindred
adjectives, and sympathetic verbs, and congenial
similes, in the delineation of the same scenes and the
same occurrences, constitute plagiarisms—then, is
Mr. Macaulay a plagiarist. But so also for the same ,
reasons should we regard M. Louis Blanc in refer-
ence to the preceding works of Michelet, and Lamar-
tine, and Carlyle, and Mignet, and Thiers, and a
hundred other historians of the Revolution. So also
is Mr. Grote after Mitford and Thucydides. In fine,
we cannot but express our gratitude to the
contributor to the Quarterly for having af-
forded us the perusal of one of the most amus-
ing articles we can recollect ever having examined.
hile we agree with him cordially in his very sen-
tentious opinion, that " the Temple of History is not
the floor for a morris-dance," and that " the Muse
Clio is not to be worshipped in the halls of Terp.
sichore," we can, of course, by no' means coincide
mareverenced
e svoe r muchenee
mntaatmicoutanitenttoon"
at h
subjecte sq u a nhdi
tehr ienrgt • of
with him in viewing the labours of Mr. Macaulay as
be
as the figure of Truth arrayed in the *
nl
ogd rt la
simple gar-
ments of Philosophy." Yet, while
we would pre-
sume so far to differ with him
Macaulay in the light of a very as to regard Mr.
remarkable historian,
a very great writer, and
a very eloquent
rhetorician, we would, nevertheless, reiterate the ex-
pressions of our gratitude for the entertainment
extracted by us from
this harmless, though malignant,
effort of vengeance.
We have written
so much at length upon this final,
but most co • nspicuous contribution, that we have now
only the opportunityof
seven :—" Popular Science," " Hutchinson and Hie-
over, " " The Skerryvore Lighthouse," " Cattle and
Sheep," " The Germanic Confederation and the
Austrian Empire," " Curzon's Visits to Monasteries
in the Levant," and " M'Farlane's Glance at Revo-
lutionized Italy." Several of these, more particularly
the first, the third, and the fourth, are worthy of this
eminent publication.
,ro-

AN ENGLISU POTTERY IN FEANcs.—Asa proof of
the revival of confidence in the stability of the French
Government, and of their power and willingness to
sustain order and protect property, it may be mentioned
that an Irish gentleman has just purchased one of the
large tactories on the banks of the Seine, which wej
abandoned during the revolution in February, 1848,
and yesterday he left Southampton for Havre, in the
Courier steamer, accompanied by about thirty of his
workpeople. A great number of his workmen had al-
ready preceded Lim