The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-02 00:00:00

this debate after my Noble Friends the mover of the
Address, and the seconder, paid a tribute which I think
natural to the Noble Lord who lorg led that party with
which he was connected, and whose loss he most justly de •
plored. Sir, I could not hear that tribute without remem-
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oslei
tsisciaolnlyo te lo3nairileicatnelden; t,anhdaNi emluo
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say that I think it is not only natural, but riOst, that such
lo,:ises should not be passed over in silence in this House
s
(Hear, hear)—because the loss of men of
indefatigableof undoubted
industry
in integrity,iustyt
of highspirit, of great talent, and o
in the transaction of public business, are not private but na-
tional losses.—( Hear,) Sir, in rekrring to the various to-
pics which have been raised it this debate, I will state
but briefly the remarks that I have to make with regard
to Ireland, because there is no subject connected with that
country which is not likely, in a short time, to form the
subject of a separate discussion.—(Hear, hear.) With re-
gard to the particular amendment which the Hon. Gentle-
man has moved, relating to the powers of which the Go-
vernment propose to ask the renewal, I will only call upon
the House to defer its judgment until they hear the state-
ment which my Right Hon. Friend shall make, founded
upon the opinion, certainly, of the Lord-Lieutenant; but
that opinion, formed not only upon his own judgment and his
own strict and sagacious observation of passing events, but
likewise upon the testimony of those from whom he is accus-
tomed to obtain information with regard to the state of the
country.—(Hear, hear.) I will only say, further, that I
hope this House will bear in mind, when they come to
that discussion, how long a Government must pause, sup-
posing no such power to exist, before it comes down to ask
Parliament for such powers—what menaces, what agita-
tion, what interruption of trade and commerce, what dis-
turbance of the public peace must occur ; and that if the
Suspension Act should expire, and agitation were again to
begin, it would not be at the first moment of that agitation
that Government could, with any hope of success, ask for a
grant of such powers, but that they must wait until a course
of events somewhat similar to that which took place before
had again occurred in Ireland, to the great misfortune of that
country.—(Hear, hear.) For these powers which we pro-
pose to ask are not powers against Ireland; on the con-
trary, they are powers for the protection of all the well-
disposed—for the protection of the great majority of the
country against those who would turn its present condition
to purposes of disaffection and rebellion.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir, with respect to another topic, I own I was somewhat
surprised to hear from the Hon. Gentlemen who moved and
seconded this amendment, that the Government ought to
have come down and proposed at once its Bill for the Amend-
ment of the Poor-law. I have been accustomed to hear con-
tinual reproaches that in our legislation for Ireland we do
not consult those who represent that country, and who know
the feelings, the wants, and the condition of that country ;
that we rely upon our own notions and English feelings,
and do not listen to the opinions of those who are natives of
Ireland, and so much better acquainted with the nature of
the measures suited to that country. Now, that we propose
that there should be a Committee in which we should be
able to ascertain what Irish Members think of the operation
of the poor-law, and to consult their experience before we
bring a Bill into the House, we are told that we ought to
have framed our Bill entirely upon our own notions ; that
we should not have listened to Irish Members, but acted
independently of any such advice or information.— ( Hear.)
It is obvious that it we had taken that course, we should
have been liable to reproach, and I have no doubt we
should have come under the censure of these who now
blame us for taking the opposite course.—(Hear, hear.) We
cannot say, either, that there is that unanimous opinion in
Ireland as to the amerplment of the Poor-law that upon that
opinion we could frame a Bill for the amendment of that
law, because when a small portion of the representatives of
Ireland met, I think only nine, as the Hon. Gentleman says,
there were among them five different opinions as to the
amendment that ought to be made in the Poor-law—(A
laugh)—so that if we take the opinion of one of those five,
we should have had four to one of Irish opinions against the
measure we should have proposed.—(Hear and a laugh.)
With regard to what has been said as to other Irish mea-
sures, there were several Bills introduced last year, and which
we mean again to submit to the consideration of the House ;
there is one with regard to that long-vexed question of land-
lord and tenant, which last year was before a Committee,
and which we propose again to lay before the House ; there
is the question with regard to the franchise, with respect to
which my Right Hon. Friend has a Bill already prepared ;
and there is the grand jury system also ; so that we are not
liable, in fact, to the reproach of not having attended to
any other subject with respect to Ireland but that of re-
straining the liberties of that country.—( Hear, hear.) I
come now, Sir, to some of the questions raised by the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Disraeli), and I think it will be as well
that I should enter into them now, taking this Address
as a whole, as speak merely to the question of the amend-
ment which has been moved. Now let me say, with re-
gard to the Honourable Gentleman, that I think he dis-
played very great ingenuity in the objections that he
made to the Address proposed; he cavilled at one phrase,
carped at another term, found fault with the title that had
been given to a foreign sovereign, and in that way with very
great ability kept the House from the consideration of the
questions that were really before it—(Hear, hear)—and he
proceeded upon that to move an amendment, which as I shall
presently show is of a most extraordinary character.—
(Hear, hear.) But the Hon. Gentleman thought fit first
of all to state to us what was the present state of our
commercial legislation and policy, and how much we had
gone astray in respect to it. In support of this opinion he
made some statistical observations, which I confess were
unintelligible to me; he told us that when a very large
import of food was introduced from America, the American
growers and importers had 5,000,0001. of profit in the trans-
action; and what does he wish to infer from that? I
should have thought, upon that question, that even all Pro-
tectionists as well as all Free-traders would acknowledge that
when there is a great deficiency of food in this country,
whether you have sliding-scale, fixed duty, or no duty
at all, it should be your object in that emergency to col-
lect as much food as possible—(Hear, hear)—and that if
there is a good price in this country while the price in the
country of production is low, the temptation of that profit
is a reason why your wants should be supplied—(Hear,
hear)—and that you should rejoice that those wants should
be supplied by so large an importation.— ( Hear, hear.) That
American growers and merchants should gain 5,000,0001. of
profit in that transaction, provided we had the benefit of the
food for the consumers in this country, is not a subject of
lamentation with me. I only think that it is the natural
result of commerce, and one which we are not by any.
means to deplore, but to take as the effect of all commer-
cial transactions.—( Hear, hear.) For my part, I never
can enter into that notion which the Honourable Gentle-
man seems to entertain, that every gain of the foreigner is
the loss of the British people—([fear, hear)—that every
time there is a large profit made by some foreign pro •
ducer or merchant we ought to lament, and that we should
consider that it is so much of which we have been robbed.
(Hear, hear.) On the contrary, if commerce is carrici on
in a healthy state, there ought to be a gain on both sides
—a
gain on our side, if we have commerce with America,
with regard to the articles we want—a gain on their side
in furnishing them—a gain on the part of those who are
concerned in carrying the goods from one country to another
—and so far from thinking that a subject upon which we
should pour our lamentations, I should be glad to see
that commerce is stili further extended.—(Hear,
hear.) I believe that the laws we have passed in the
course of the last few years, so far from tending to
impoverish the country, will tend to enrich it.— (Hear,
hear.) Ido not think that we have any reason to com-
plain if those commercial transactions become more ex-
tended ; but I do believe, with respect to the importation
of corn, for instance, which is the great necessary of
life for the people, that the people of England will be great
gainers by not having the recurrence of those times of very
high prices to which they were formerly subjected.—(Hear. )
The Hon. Gentleman says that the law of 1842 was changed
after an experience of three years; but in my opinion the
laws were changed after an experience ot 30 years. The
corn-law was enacted by Parliament in 1815 ; it was changed
and modified into various shapes, but at last statesmen of
different parties, and the majority of this House, came to the
opinion that in no shape whatever would it be expedient to
continue this law. and that it would be far better that the
trade in fosd should be made entirely free. I was an advo •
cats, for one, of the modifications of that law—for a fixed
duty; and I believe that if that fixed duty had been
enacted many years ago, it would have acted most
beneficially for the country, and, at last, have gra-
dually given way to the comtlete free-trade that we now
have.— ( Rear, hear.) But. Parliament having not chosen to
adopt that mode, having chosen to set corn entirely free, I
hope that no one will attempt—above all, I hope that no one
will be successful—in renewing any duty upon that main
article of subsistence.—(Loud cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman
having stated his opinion upon this subject, which, if it
meant anything, meant, as I conceive, a restoration of? pro-
tective duties, then proceeded to enter into the question of
our foreign relations. Now, all that is stated in the Queen's
Speech, with regard to the foreign relations of this
country, has been put in that Speech by the advice given
to her Majesty according to what is strictly the fact with
regard to the transactions that have taken place; and all
that my Noble Friend (Lord H. Vane) calls upon this ,House
to do is, to thank her Majesty for informing them of those
various transactions. There is throughout the Address no
word of congratulation or of approbation of the trans-
actions or of the policy pursued : on the contrary, those ques-
tions are entirely reserved, because her Majesty is pleased
to say in her Speech that, when the public service will
permit, the papers relating to these various transactions
will be laid before Parliament. Now, it has been usual for
the House of Commons, which does not take upon itself ge-
nerally the initiative in these matters, at all events to wait
for such communications; to press for such papers if they
should think it necessary, or having waited till those papers
are produced, to found, if any Member should think it ne-
cessary to found upon them, some charge or some resolution
with respect to the opinion of the House ; and such appears
to me to be the reasonable course with regard to these trans-
actions.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the state of
manufactures, with respect to the state of the colonies or of
agriculture, the Hon. Gentleman may fairly call upon this
House to express an opinion ; but these foreign negotiations,
as we know, are generally matters of a somewhat com-
plicated character, leading to the exchange of notes,
and assuming different phases in the course of the transac-
tions ; and it is unusual for a Member to come forward on
the first night ot a session, without the information, and
without even asking for it, and to call upon the House to vote
that her Majesty's relations with foreign powers are not
such as to justify us in addressing her Majesty in the lan-
guage of congratulation. No congratulation is pro posed, no
congratulation has been asked, and this is merely saying that
the House of Commons thinks proper to form its opinion
without a knowledge of the negotiations that have taken
place, without any insight into the transactions, and to say
at once that they do not form matter of congratulation,
which means saying at once that they form matter ot con-
demnation.—(Rear, hear.) But when I heard the Honour-
able Gentleman make his observations upon our foreign re-
lations, it convinced me the more that he waswrong in asking
the House to come to a conclusion, because his observations
convinced me that he was totally wrong with regard to them.
He seemed to suppose, for instance, that with regard to the
war carried on between the King of Sardinia, whom, in
his zeal for titles, he called the King of Piedmont and
the Emperor of Austria, we bad proposed to impose our
mediation without ever having been requested by the
Emperor of Austria to mediate. Another statement I
know has been made, and is current with the public,
that mediation was proposed to us by Austria, and
was refused by this country. Neither of those statements is
at all correct. The real fact is, that the Emperor of Austria
was pleased to send an Austrian statesman, a very dis-
tinguished man—a gentleman whom I have often had occa-
sioni to meet,and always-had great pleasure in intercourse with
to this
that we h
sent that statesman to this country with a proposal
sardiniacountry to mediate between him and the King of
terms oofp
the pr • We accepted that mediation ; but with regard to
should be m
the proposed basis of it we suggested that an alteration
had aces
the Emperor. That statesman considered
returned to
linoesisl to
accepted the mediation, but he demurred to the
was
basis, and insisted that the terms proposed by
%s Emperormhiwsce those which ought to be the terms, and he
these circumstances own country. At a subsequent period a me-
diationpressed in the
France; a correspondence
and the French the Emperor of Austria, and under
:—the King of Sardinia being much
nnuddetermined to ask for the assistance of
Government,
took place between this country
at 01 uiaot L I:nment, and the French Government
consented S 9 p 4 gicic the quepticm 91 IN-

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