The Sun.
London, England, 1807-02-05 00:00:00

war,
cer.•
wed

had 4 - right to eOrciSe ih . their `interference in
increased in proportion as our Maritime supe-
rioritygrew on the de,truation .of the marine of
the enemy. 'ln times 'when maritime power is
nearly balanced; every country 'carries pn -this
trade on Its' own bottotns by means of convoys: It
Was thus carried-on 'in time of 'Peace. The restric-
tion now irnoosed,' while . it would be very an-
l'eTing to the 'enemy, would 'still allow to neu-
trals a gainful commerce, by , making their ports the
tizteepots between one enemy's' port -and 'another.-.-
4t was honourable to- us, as a great Nation, 'that in
Proportion 'as the enemy was violent, we were mO-
orate. Our moderation would be, besides, the means-
procuring us supplies 'of the articles Vee wanted
front the enemy, and of introducing our commodities
among them. He would ask, whether the interven-e
!:ton of Neutrals would not afford a-great facility to
'hat,: Bonaparte was 'most hostile to, the intro-,
t•lnEtion of British goods into the countries un-'
der his controul, and our ebtaining from those
eountries the supplies we want from them. • The
,eonsmerce from - port to port, 'in a 'line of coast;
extending from the Elbe to Venice; -with. the ex-4
eeption of Pont/gal; could `not be carried on by'
•Prnall craft, creeping along shore -under. the pro-
teetion of batteries.- Small craft - could. nut creep
from ArriSterdatn. to Bourdeaux, froM Bourdeaux
to Barcelona, from thence to Leghorn, and from
Leghorn to Venice: The number of vessels em-
ployed under the system -of neutralizatioh in this
extent was .very great; and the trade itself 'was of
141 importance Jo` France ; and was it to be con-
-tended, that the application of our maritime supe-
Ahrity to the preventioit of this trade on so vast a
line of coast, was a measure that_ would be attended
'ith no effect, at a time when our Cruizers were so,
ltilmerous or every station, that no ship could move
without the greatest risk of being captured.—The
earned Gentleman then adverted to the opinion of
'44. Honourable and Learned Friend, who presided
Over the Admiralty Court, relative to the importance
and extent of the coasting. trade. This was an
'authority which the House would lOok to with
1.;
_esPeCt. The opinion -had been stated by that
Learned Gentleman in giving judgment in a cause
tried before him, and • the coasting trade was re-:
Presented by hito as one of the greatest acconi-
kodations . any country. Some 'conception
Rightbe formed
'of the importance of it, if
Gentlemen would- suppose France to be pos-
kssed•of the Sense. naval superiority which this
Country at present had, and that the coals of New-
castle were to be brought to the Port of London,
and every other necessary for the consumption of this
great metropolis, ;.n neutral vessels. His Hon. 'and
Learned Friend, therefore, was not corredt in stating
that the interruption of the coasting trade would be no
treat injury to France, or that the Order of Council
for that purpose' signified nothing. That Order was
but one step, and an important step, of those that
es...Urould, if necessary, be resorted to for ret.iiiation.—
From the manner in which this subi-::.t Imad been
treated, it might be s‘apposed that no such measure as
that of the enemy had ever been resorted to before.
)3ut in the Administration-of that. lustrious States-
Rein, now no more, and whose..loss. he regretted as
1/Inch as any Member of that House, much more ri-
t°ns measures had' been resorted to by the enemy
the present. In the year 1797, after the 4..rencti
1d ruade,peace with Austria, and the army, which
Leen arrogantly called the Army of England,
" been &ciliated at. Brest, with a view to turn tlvir
thtinie force against this Country ; in that year, on
e twenty-ninth NTiVose, year six, that is, in thris-
an language, on the' nineteenth day of January,
1798, a Decree was passed by the French Gm era-
i'hen,t Making all Vessels that should be freighted
the whole or in part with English commodities,
f°°d Prizes. A Vessel proceeding from Copenhagen
o Tranquebareor from Lisbon to the Brazils, ' inch
I.%rd but a single bale of English goods on board, was
be confiscated if captured by French Cruizers. The
01.1se would perceive that the former Decree was
much more atrocious than even the late one. In order
shew what had been the feelings of the Neutral Na-
rtts on the subject of that Decree, he need onlyreter
ohthe Speech of the President of the United StateS
opening the Session of Congress, on the Bth of
eeeniber, 1798, in which' he declared, that, " as
theW Decree of the 19th of the preceding January
:8 Still in force, in consequence of the failure of an
t'empt to procure its -repeal, he considered it as-an
tepee and sovereignty of neutral nations, which was
n'j to ne met by a di.termined resistance." As the
•Chief Magistrate of America had expressed so strong
sense Of the aggression in that instance, there was
I°grolind to suppose that he would not act as decided-
.l-deration why
. on the present occasion. And this was another con-
this country ought to abstain for the
„resent from any act which might prove grievous to-
t,'e trade of America, until it should be seen whe-
ther the American Government would follow the
eatile Course now as in 1798. The Decree of .1798
t7d continued in force durifig the last Peace, and
th°llgh it had been evaded- by means of Neutral
Fr Ps' no Vessel was allowed to, enter a port of
co without a certificate of origin from the French
it Itiathz.!
nsoi„
Commercial Agent, at the port wrience
,
ur
sailed. Yet that Decree had passed unnoticed
eedent,
4t instance, and, on the authority of that pre-
le taken ;
it-was his opinion that no measures should
.11 the present case, except such as would
tra attended with as little rigour as possible to the
Li tof .Neutral. As to the measure proposed by
the Order of Council, namely, that- no Ships with
lonia' Produce should be suffered to enter the
,Wports Ot France e did he suppose that such a measure
ould be more distressing to the trade France,
xv_ (0 that of Neuttals, or to our own trade ? It'
trsQlsuid be injurious to our trade, because the Nene-
, by carrying the Colonial produce of the enemy,
e enabled to export our manutaaures in great
trtities. The House of Commons would not there-
, in ln the exercise of its inquisitorial powers, in-
_e with this act of the Executive, until it should
llhe what effeti would be preddced' by the measure
ot had..i already been resorted io. It was his opi-
highuitta the cutting:oft the coasting trade would be
in the distressing to -France ; but if France should,
rsitee nadir? 9ss .her polio
the ) think of shutting tip
rna ming Neutral Ports upon the Continent,
would soon find that they are now as necessary
her asto- Great Britain. As soon as she should
ti;t4ig to feel. the distress arising from shutting up
IN:tts4 she • would Te;on ree,; /1421:6 11/1.14.1 fir t 1

we're al Osent in her oLhnpation. tt was therefore
his opinion, that they should. in the first instance
make trial of the measure' that had beet-t.edopted, as
they would at all times have it in their power to re-
sort to measures of greater extremity,-if such-should
be found necessary. The • adopt iou of moderate
measures in the first instance, would be creditable to.
the national charaEter.----and in •the national character
-consisted, in a great degree, the national strength.
If the enethy-should persist in their Decree, and at-
-tempt to enforce ite- then he was convinced that the:
country had sufficient means, and His nijesty's
'Ministers sufficient vigour, to resort.lo such 'mea-
sures as should be deemed necessary for a complete
retaliation. On all these grounds he thought that.
no. -good reason had beeu stated
,for the production
of. the Paper.
Air. JACOB was of opinion that this country
ought' always tO assert its claim 4) its full rights, but
at the same time, he did not think that iii the present
circumstances of Europe it should exercise them to
their-full extent. If the whole Colonial Trade was
to be stopped, he would ask. the Learned Gentleman
whether he thought it would be mere. injurious to
France than to Great Britain ? Above one-half of the
"Colonial produce consumed in Fratice was British
Colonial produce.; What: inconvenience, 'therefore,
might not result, if
.the trade that supplied France
with that produce :was to be put a stop to ? If the
1` measure proposed' by the 'Learned Gentleman were
-to' be adopted; the only efte& of it would be; 'that it
would be injurious to that. already suffering class of
the community, the West-India Merchants and.
Planters, and irritating to Neutrals, and the whole
of the remaining civilized States of the world. He
was.of opinion, consequently, that no ground had
been laid,for the produCtion of the Paper..
Lord CASTLEREAGH rose to make a few ob-
servations, just to shew the grounds of th&Vote he
meant to give on the Moileia-of his Hon. and Learned
Friend. It did not appear to him that anyarguments
Of i'ny weight had been.brought.torward to resist
.the able arguments of his Hon. Friend, and certainly
no parliamentary objeClion had been started to the
"production of a Paper which wa already in the hands
of every body in the country. The Honourable and.
Learned Gentleman opt,osite (Sir John w ho
was justly entitled to the confidence Of that House
and of the Couitirs, had not, produced any stifficient
objection .against the Motion of his Learned Friend,
and, as that Hon. Gehtteman was so Bally.. compe-
tent to decide upon this question, he did not suppose
that any Honourable Member who shook inllow
him would be more succe4stul in the at-Jun-lents he
might bring forward. The right of wax he was Reidy-
to admit was a prerogative of the Crown, but .th,,n
was subject to the coutroul of Parliament. He een..
tended that his learned Friend opposite was buend
to make out a case, to shew that the Paper ought not
to be preduced, before he could call upon him,
or hi, HOn. and Learned Frier.d_ near him, to make
oit a case of the par.irn !um necessity fur us produc-
tion. If, however, they were so called un, their diffi-
culty would not be great, because they 'could shew
thatthe measure that
,had been resorted to was in
adequate to its prJess,td object. 'Whatever Objec-
tions -there might be. to the-production of the Paper,
on the mound of the adequacy of the measure, or of
the delicacy of his Majesty's Ministers on the sill).
jea,- th 4 would more properly apply to the pro-
ceeding that was to be grounded upon the produc-
tion of the Paper. lh'is question was one of too
much importance for any man to bring forward
lightly; or unless he could state sufficient ground for
the production of,the Paper. He derived some conso-
lation from the argument' of ,the Learned Gentleman
opposite, that this measure was not flue!. Hewes sur-
prised that his Learned Friend had been so misunder-
stood, as to have it conceived he had said that the
Order of Council would have no practical effect.
On the contrary, he had allowed that it would have
a great pra6bcal effe6t ; but' as the present circum-
stances of the Country, arising. out of the Order of
the French Government, weredifferent from any in
which it had ever been placed, he contended that
more vigorous measures should 'have been adopted.
As to the period of our history which. had been al-
lnded to, he should presently shew that the time. of
-the American Government had been wasted in nego-
tiations, and in intrigues, to corrupt the French
Ministers. Whatever might be the feelings of Go-
vernment towards America, whatever might be the
principles on which the late Negotiation had been.
condu&ed, these were no reasons for delaying the
adoption ,of more vigorous measures of retaliation
against the Enemy., He thought it impossible
that the Hotise could' form an adequate opinion
. whether the measure of Government was wise
-or unwise, adequate or inadequate, unless they
should look at the state of the Country as to its Mari-
. time rights. It would be futile for him to dwell in
this instance on the importance of its maritime rights
to this.country, but it was necessary for the House to
look a little at the two Systems of Maritime Rights
which it had under different circumstances been called
on to, accede to. They would recollect the claims
made by the armed neutrality of 1780, and of 1800,
that neutral ships should make free goods, and that
neutral vessels sailing under convoy of ships of war
should not be molested, and that such claims had
.been resisted even into war. But the, claims ad-
vanced by France in the present instance, not only
extended to neutrals, but to the free navigation of the
mercantile shipping of the Enemy. As the claims
now urged by France were so much larger than any
that had been before made,. Gentlemen should take
care not to assist the views of the• French Govern
ment hy opposing the Motion of his Learned
Friend, • which might lead to the adoption of such
measures as would visit the aggressions of the French
Government upon itself, the object of his Honourable
Friend being only to shew that the Order is inadequate
to its object. There was a great difference between
the situation of this country at present and in the
year 17g8. Though 'France had then considerably
added to her territory, she had not identified with the
whole of Europe as she does at present. " She had
.the centre of Holland it was trite, but she had hot
the ports of the North, Hamburgh, and the Hanse
Towns. She had not extended herself over the
whole of Europe. Site had the North of Italy, but
not the South, or the Kingdom of Naples. Her
dominion had not been established over Spain, and
Portugal was a substantively independent Kingdom,
and not tributary as at present, when she is alloWed
to' import articles of British produce; only by pay-
ing to the French Government. The re-
: lat; 17F4 Cl trlntinn 1,2r1 t IlgtrTacelrob

one A Veal bhdrige since the year MO. Yrhe
intinenee and the Bower of the French GOVern-
mem had laeen then great and formidable'; but they
could not employ with such effe& as at present the
pressure of their military force against the commerce
of this country ; and, therefbre; a greater -, forbear
ance might have been pra6tised s towards them
than at present. He contended that considerations
of fbrhearance respecting America should not in-
duce, the House to abstain from adopting, not
an a& of practical , injustice,• but the measures
which the circumstances of the, timets required,
namely to- warn AmeriCan vessels, in. the first in-
stance,. against entering French Ports ; but not to
capture them, unless they should be fbund contuma-
ciously bent on entering:the ports 'of France. What
had been said, therefore, did not appear to him to be
any ground why his Hon. and Learned Friend shohld
desist from prosecuting his motion, hecatise it would
be obvious, that what was lost to this cOUntry,by
its forbearance, would be gained by France. It was
also desirable that:the should have a' more
definite statement of. that unexplained period that
was to elapse between .the present measure and the
more vigorous measures' that were to be adopted by
Government. Not withstanding the vast superiority
of our Navy, uncontested and incontestible, F'rance
had a surprising faCility of-importing the produce of
her own, and the Spanish Colonies, to as great an
extent as during Peace. Unless some measures of
more vigorous retaliatiOn shotild be adopted, she
would herea;ter have a larger share of this trade than
heretofore; because she would not only Supply Lei--
self with colonial produce, but ab,solutely hat e a mo-
nopoly of all the continental markets, against the co-
lonial produce of this Country. It was impossible for
him, with the documents he had, to stale to what ex-
tent this would- take place, but certainly France
would be put into a better situation than tois coun-
try ; and the House would be able to judge of this
question when aware, that the Objeat of tile French
Government, as stated in. her Decree, was to annihi-
late the trade and commerce of this'country. It might
assist in forming this judgment to'iOok at the amount
of colonial produce imported into, and exported from,
America in the last .year. The gross amount of its
imports 'Was' of the value 'of seventy-five millions of
dollars, 'Of which twenty-eight ' minions of dollars
value had been re-exported to Europe, the greater
part to France, by fictitious changes of ownership;
however it,was contrivol. The amount of the export
he took from an official American document,' and
the produce reached the ports of France, where-
in a revenue was colleded upon it, that enabled
France to'carry on the War against this Country ;. and
all this from our forbearance relativ'e to Neutrals.
It they were to look only to the question of in-
surance, they would find that 4 cargo from a French
.Colony to a Port of the Mother Country, without
some protection of convoy, can. be insuriad on the
same terms as it vessel from Jamaica to Great Britain,
whose Squadrons cover the. ocean. By these means
tue,revenue of France was fed as cffeduaily as in
time -of peace, and the French Government enabled
to carry on the war with so much facility and effect.
But the Learned Gentleman opposite, had said that
we:had-to-right to interfere until we should have as-
certained Whether. America would submit to the ag-
'gression of France, .Did the Hon. Gentleman mean
to say, that, until the American Merchant should be
afraid to risk his cargo, which he might cover by
zissui.ance, lest before its arrival at its destination
it Should- be captured; we should defer' taking those
vigorous measures which the measures of the Enemy
had rendered necessary ?; That this. Country was to
wait till it should know what might be the repre-
.sentations of the American Government on the sub-
ject of the extraordinary Decree of the Enemy? They
might, however, judge what would be the represen-
tations of the American Government, bpthe conduoi
which that Government had adopted during the last
War, when it was every way in a better condition to
resist the injustice. of the Enemy; But if they were
to wait till the American Government should insist
upon those principles by which the Law of Nations
is upheld, they might wait till doomsday, as, what-
ever might be tbeir feelings, the commercial people
would 'attend to their commercial interests. Since the
publication 'of this Decree, which had been at first
generaL as to all Nations, some communication
had taken place between the American Ministers in
this Country and the French Gcnernment, in conse-
quence of which, some practical relaxation of the
Decree bad taken place. This was one ground why
he should look upon_ Atnerica with jealousy ; and it
was an aggravation that she had, by a secret under-
standing with the French Government, contrived to
'take her shipping out of the operation of the, De-
cree, that was at first general, and placed herself in
a situation of connivance with the French Govern-
ment. An American Agent might have represented
to the French Government, how little it could gain
by the execution of the Decree, so far as America.
was concerned ; that France had not the power of in-
tercepting American vessels, and therefore as she
could not gain much, that she might the more readily
take from the Americans the necessity of vindicating
theirown rights byresisting theexecution of the Decree,
and leave their neutral flag still to cover French colonial
produce. It was not surprising that the Deputies of
Hamburgh, and the Hanse Towns, had failed in their
mission to the French Ruler; but when the case of
America had been stated to him, it was too obvious
not to awaken him to a sense of the policy of attend-
ing to it. If it should not also awaken his Majesty's
Government to a sense of what they ought to do,
Parliament ought to make them alive to the measures
which should be adopted in consequence of the
gressions of the French Government and the su-
pineness of his Majesty's Ministers. On all these
grounds, he should support tber-Motion of his Hon.:
and Learned Friend.

Lord TEMPLE, if lie.bad had any doubts as to
the propriety of granting the Paper moved for by
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman when .he had
given notice of his Motion on a former day, felt that
these doubts would have been completely removed.
by the. speech of the Learned Gentleman himself,,
and of . the Noble Lord who had just sat down.—.
Nothing could be more hostile to the constitutional
principle than what had been stated by 'the Learned
Gentleman as the ground of his Motion ; nothing.
more hostile to the feelings of the House, or to the
interests of the country. It had always been hig
opinion that it was the duty of that House to watch
the conduct of his Majesty's, Ministers ; that it was
the duty of the House to give them its confidence,
111\fIt It Clsr‘ill r:oz. esmca

drawing it, and to carry tip advicd to his Majesty
with, respect.- to the great concerns cif the Govern=
ment. -But this was the first time in Which it h,,,t
been proposed to recommend to his. Majesty from
that House a great measure of warfare. This NV,zil
the first instance of the House. having been called
upon to go to the foot of the Throne to tell-
his Majesty,, that the House, not Approving
of a partwular.: war measure, fecommended au,
other to be adopted in its place. If the• House, wss
of opinion that the war had been improvidently
conducted by Ministers, it was their duty to stJe,-5
to his Majesty, and to , the House, that circum-
stance ; that they had forfeited their claim to. con,
fidence,•and to address for their removal from ollice.
But be looked upon the present proceeding as beitig
most unconstitutional, aS it was most unprecedent,
ed—inasmuch as it had for its object to force Go-
vernment to alter the measures it had adopted with
respect to the neutrals or our Allies, before it could
`be known what effect they would produce.: If the
ground of the Hun. Gentleman's Motion, were ad-
mitted, it would prove injurious to this couritry,and
faVourable to the etkiny. The, Learned Gentleman
had made an attack on his Hon. Friends on the
Bench with hins—(the Treasury Bench)--for their
opposing this Motion. But he could have wished
that- the Learned Gentleman lid called to reineni-
larmice hiS own condyct; when he (Lord 'l'.) and
some friends of his who disapproved ;of the Treaty
of Amiens, had supported a Motion for som
Papers relating to that Treaty. • Ii had then been
objected to them, that • the Treaty was con-
cluded ; and no person had given more decided,
Opposition to that. Motion than the Learned Gen--
tleman with the whole force of his eloquence.--i-
The Learned Gentleman had asked whether there
was any precedent of a similar Paper, when moved
,for, having been refused ? But he,should ask that-
Learned Gentleman fur a precedent of a sienilar
Paper having been asked to he produced. Many ,
Orders of Council had, on different occasions, been
called for ; but this was the first time in which an
...Order of 'Council had been called fur immediately
after it was made, and before it could he knOwn
what eifeft it would produce. It was agreed on all
hands, that this Country possessed the right of re-
taliating ; but the question was, whether it would be
politic in us to exercise that right to its fullest extent ?
The Noble Lord seemed to think it a great objeft
to pre-vent her Colonia4 produce from reaching
France ; and the Learned Gentleman had stated,
that if that were etfe&ed, it would raise the price of
:our Colonial. produce in France. He admitted that
_Such an effe& would be the !consequence. But wa;
the Noble Lord aware of the consequences that
Would result to the commerce and manufactures of ,
this Country,. if the neutral colonial trade were done
away ? The _exports from this, Country . amounted
within the last year to; twenty-four millions, which,
he admitted, had unfortunately not all been export-
ed in British vessels. Eleven millions of these had
been exported to America, a small portion of which
were for the American consumption, and the rest
were disposed of in payment for colonial produce,
which was afterwards brought to Europe. The ut-
most produce of the French Colonies in one .year
did not exceed four or five millions,. so that the
whole of the remainder most have-been the producp
of the British Colonies. The effea of putting a stop
to the colonial trade, therefore, would be todiminish
the amount of the exports froni Great Britain. The
exports to America had sunk considerably during
the last peace, because the trade which the Americans
had enjoyed exclusively before, was then carried on
by the Mother Countries; Another objection that
appeared to him against measures of rigorous retalia-
tion was, that if 'American trade to Freud) ports
were to be stopped, according to his apprehenSion,
the interruption could not be extended to their trade
to friendly neutralports. The result therefore would
be that the French colonial produce would be spread
by the Americans all over Europe, and by meeting
our own colonial produce in every market, diminish
its value.-The Honourable Gentleman had ex-
pressed some, satisfailion that the right had not been
conceded, though he could not conceive how the
right could have been reserved if' not acted upon ;
certainly it could•be no otherwise than a right: reserved
them, but not being aged upon, viz.-a right dormant
until an occasion should occur for exercising it.
, The Honourable and Learned Gentleman had re-
commended as a substitute for the present measure,
to compel
.the 4mericans to touch at British'ports
-before they, should be allowed to proceed to the
ports of France. This appeared to him a most ex-
traordinary proposition, that the French colonial
produce should be warehoused as British stores, and
pay duties in this Country. After the statement of
his Learned Friend, it ,was not necessary to go more
at length into this question. •

TURTON expressed his surprise
that any reluelance should be betrayed .to grant Pa-
pers, fur the production of which the most constitu-
tional and parliamentary grounds could be urged :
that at least was his opinion, and he did not despair
of being able to maintain it. The Paper. that was
moved for, bore upon the face of it every possible
mark of imbecility and indecision. All thecommercial
towns in the kingdom, indeed the .whole, country,
considered it in that light, and lamented the want of
that vigour and energy which should charaderise the
measures of a British AdAlinistration. The House
was told, indeed, that to push measures to a proper
degree of retaliation would be to ad in a manner not
only injurious to neutral Powers) but prejudicial to
the interests of our own commerce. He was at a
loss to see any satisfa&ory proof of such an assertion.
In his mind, the real cause of this pusilaniruous for-
bearance was the fear of offending Ainerica, the
dread of breaking off the Treaty lately pending be-
tween this country and the American Government.
That Was the pistol held to. the breast of Ministers;
and this their great anxiety to ward it off. He was
happy, however, to learn that MiniSters did not
mean to stop here, and that the present measure Was
only an experiment. If -anything farther was done,
the country would. be indebted ibr it-to the motion
made this night by the .Honourable and Learned
Gentleman (Mr. Perceval) for without such incite-
ment he was sorry to observe that Ministers seemed
of themselves little disposed to adopt any thing like
vigorous and energetic measures.

Lord HOlcla felt little inclined or called upon
tolnake any observations upon the question ; but
seeing no other person disposed to rise, and consider-
' ing, trle nature of the arguments that had been urged

i• of aich ipportrince with a silent vote. The Wor-
thy Barcnet who spoke last, promiAed, To the outset.
. 'ot his speech, to bring fiwward and substantiate con-
stitutionl grontids upon which it would appear pro-
per to product. the Paper moved ; hut seemed to
lk satisfied with the promise, for he never proceeded
• to the performance. That was all he thought neces-
sary to say with regard to what fell from the Wor-
thy Baronet. But before. entering into any details of
the question, which, however, he should do very
tihortiv;. he would first state the tnOtives and the
grounds which induced him to oppose the produtaien
of the Paper moved for by the Hon. Gentleman
The granting'of such Papers should not be consider-
ed as a matter of course, on the contrary, those who
emoved to produce them must have lost sight of the
constitutional principles upon which the pra&ice of
• - Pailiamentwas founded. The Paper in question was
aiready, sufficiently public; it was not, therefore, for
any put pose of concealment that the produdion of it'
:was-opposed i it was resisted from -a conviction that
it I,,cs his dete to maintain those constitutional prin-
ciples to he had referred, and to adhere to
• that pra'tice which the House had hitherto studiously
and invariably 'observed. He might use a phrase that
was often intliernieath of fornier Administratious On
.!such occasions; when papers were' Moved for, it was
'.usual • to' esk—Were they called kir
,upon public
grounds; and what was tire nature of the
tary proceedi le intended 'to tie i witituted s.ipoti them?
it was for him nova' tnconsider, 'what might be the
nature of the proceeding. intended •in the presetit
case, and wheth& it was consistent not only with
-the duty of Ministers to grant the'Papers, but with
.the duty of Parliament, who-should guard the Con-
--stitetional principles that:ought to regtilate the pro-
-duetion of such documents. But it was objeeled to
him that he bed Tornierly moved tbr such Papers
himself, and -that noiv he, rethsed -to 'produee them
- when moved for by others: He ShOitid only wish
that this -objection. Would be‘made out : rti• prove
him inconsistent, it should be proved that the oc,
easions and the grounds 'upcni which he had for-
merly moved .for Papers were extraly similar to the
present. He feared no such proof—he knew of no
such--precedent. In-the course 'of the.last war Or-
ders of Council were issued, and somewhat to the
same efl-etasthe present. -Would the Hon. and
. Learned Gentleman have the goodness' to point out
the Motins' that were made to produ6e them; and
the reside of those Motions. No. such attempt
would be made ; and be did not hesitate again to re-
peat, tha t there was no precedent for producing them,
end that Motions for their produaion -tended to su-
persede the funaions of the 'Executive Govern-
ment ; and Parliament would certainly be cautious
how they should be betrayed to. sanction such a de-
viation from their uniform prat ticee He was per-
feetly ready to confess, that when measures were
complete, and when the diselOsure of them no
longer risked any detriment to the State, they were
fit matter for Parliament to inquire into and to can-
vass ; but it surely was far otherwise when mea-
sures were only in a state of progress, and that' during
the existence, of a. war, and perhaps from peculiar cir-
cumstances of the country in such a situation with
regard to the feelings and the interests of- other
Powers. trader such circumstances, it must be felt
bow improper and unsafe it would be to produce
tnem, and. ac:ordingly they never had been called
for on any-such Occasions.- And whet was the case
to be considered ? A Decree has been issued by the
French Government—a Decree that had not its pa-
rallel except in France—a Decree built upon false
prineples, and fraught with threats which the Go-
vernment that issued it had no power to execute.
Was France, it is said, to-exercise-that violence and
injustice, arid we not go the frill length of retaliation ?
That Decree might be- divided into two parts t' that
which prescribes confiketion on the Continent ; and
that which orders seizures at Sea. As to the Con-
tinent, it does not give us any additional light with
respeci to' the Neutrals. Those unfortunate coun-
tries are made parties in it from the isituetion of sub-
jecaion to which they are reduced ; and, what right
could we exercise over them, except the right which
the strong can exercise over the weak ?---et right
which lie trusted Great Britain wolikl Devoe- stoop
fo avail herself of to procure any ,benefit to herself.
What than would the Gentlemen opposite to him
advise to be :done ? Would they, if France proceeds
to extremities; of frantic violence and injustice, call
Upon the British Government to rival such a con-
du:e If not that, what it they would have Mi-
nisters do ? Will they not acknowledge that all
rightiare subject to consideration?;' of policy, pru-
4ence, and expediency ; and wereithat not the case,
would not many rights become burthens which it
were better to abandon than submit -to? Were-we
to follow the-aivice of proceeding to full retalia-tion,
and of con fiscating all French property in England,
as the French :Government have confiscated all
British property in France, then should we confis-
cate what property the , French may have in OUT
Funds, Are these Gentlemen prepared to pass an
Aft of Parliament compelling et cry twin to-declare
upon oeth if any of the Enemy's property is con-
eealetl in his name. No doubt we' possess 'such
right, but is it not to be regulated by expediency,
and by a proper regard -to the national filth and
credit ? But who are the'judges of that expediency ?
The King's advisers for the time. must be; and if they
are net competent to it, instead* moving for such
Papers, the motion should b,e. for an Address to his
Majesty to remove them immediately -frenk of-
fices, His Majesty's Ministers now solicit no confi-
dence but what Partiament must feel to be neces-
sary for the due administration of the Public Affitirs;
;Ind where the policy and'expedieney are to arise out
of such a variety of considerations as the present ques-
tion must involve, Parliament will feel the diffi-
cult), of their situation, and not require more de-
tails' than it may be prudent to go into, and which
might risk consequences that the wisdorn and pru-
dtieee of Parliament would avoid, especially while
Tr aties may be depending with Foreign Powers, and
when care should be taken not to disclose any thing
to the viwnly that would instruct him to avoid what.,

we might turn to the frustration of his sytem. The
Ni.4ble Lord opposite him (Lord Castlereagh) had
pllAded to a decree of the same nature passed in
Vrancviu 1798 but does pot seein to think that it
went tOt thti ,are extent as the present. On sea,
at leList, it surely went to the same extent, and, fir-
; 101 tv only the cal-oes, but the ships them-
.7,elves were', conti.:.icated,. But the Noble Lord Ob-

aervtis, the power.-4Vrance.was not so great at that
Yet .'l:4l.lce wasp Yirt,44lY ~s~ possess on

• of rielland, and Spain *as 'as dependant upon _her
I
i as at present ; and Italy also: nay, he was in poi-
i 'session of all the coast from the &orth of Gerrh,,ov
t
t to Naples, except, perhaps, the Elbe and A',.!:.L.r.
I Violent, however, as the measure of 1-'9B wa, on
the part of the French Government, mie adoptei no-
) thing to resist it ; and are we now to plunge into all
( the-violent and extravagant excesses to which the
Madness of the enemy may instigate them ? . He
did not censure the then Administrat on for not do-
-1 ing so. They ailed on the same system of wise tor-
bearance v.hich has Uniformly grown out of the,cha-
raaer of this country, and we may now feel the
praEticaleffeas of the same prudent system p 1 for-
_ bearance and moderation. But it seems that the
Gentlemen on the other side feel somewhat jea-
lous of America, because France may be disposed to
. I exempt her from the operation of the: Decree. The
m. thing is not unlikely ; but no communication of the
I kind has been made to Aliniitcrs by the American
Plenipotentiaries. The words of the Decree seem
to apply to the Continental Powers only, and conse-
quently America mu;my be
.exempted.. Suppose:she
i is : Would that be a reason, why, we-should go, to war
with America ? Is not this the intention of Gen-
i denten, or what is. it ? But surely it must be
.a
waste Of the time of ti me House to dWellupom i such argn- 1
menfs. The Treaty of-. America they have also
brought into discussion; and it has been insinuated,
that it was contrary to the hon9ur and interests of
the Country to enter into any. Negotation with
America until the Nou-IMportation Alt was re-
pealed. If such disgraee. \kas attached to the. Nego-
tiation, why were no :lotions madeJast Session to
break off the Negotiathm until 1 hat Decree was
? ' Surely such a conduet would have been
'more manly, than now to assume an , 'hostile
tone, while we are daily expecting the •Ita-
- tincation of the Treaty 'we It _n e concluded.—
This forbearance.cud moderation will, he doubted
not, entitle Admioistration to the confidence of the
"House much more
.than if they had adopted all the
sweeping measures of retaliation which time spirit of
the -Gentlemen on the other side is so for,ward to
recommend. But lie should not have forgotten to
observe, that not only the violent Decree of 1798
was allowed. to pass unnoticed by this country--btit
it should be recolleCted, that 'another sanguitmary
Decree had been pas:s.ed *at au earlier period by the
French . Government, forbidding their soldiers to
give any quarter to British troeps. 7i'lme British Go-
' vernment of that day was not censured_ for not re-
taliating ; they aged on the unie plan of modera-
tion and forbearance under which our commercial
proSperity.has been known to flourish and increase ;
and ire shall' not be tempted to rnarr its progress by
a&s, of rashness, and imprudence. Indeed such' a
conduel reminded him of the ->tratag-emn employed 1
by a person, who, pressed by hunger, was anxious
,1
to allay it by some cocoa nuts. • He espied a mon-
key in a tree; and by pelting him with every thing
he could find, at length provoked the animal to re-
taliate, by throwing back at him in resentment the '
very cocoa nuts which he was ‘). eager to procure.
The same applied to what the Gentlemen opposite •
would advise : by violence and rashness they would
have us throw our commerce into the hands.of our
',
enemy, that were so eagerly stretched out to catch
it, He should conclude With again observimr, that
if Ministers were not supposed to possess sudicient
discretion and judgment to guide them in the pre- ,
sent case, a motion shotild be made, not tbr Papers, ,
but for their removal from a situation they were
not competent to fill. i

Sir T. TunToNt said a few .words ill explanation,
Mr. PERCIV,IL then rose shbrtly to reply. lie
complained that the Noble Lord seemed rather to
have anticipated what he should advance, and to have
accordingly prepared his reply, than touch upon the
arguments which in reality he had urged. But the
Noble Lord was delighted with the simile Ida he
introduced in the story, and could net prevail upon
himself to forego the pleasure of making . use of it.
.A to the arguments stated in support of his motion,
the Noble Lord had completely Mistaken them,
.He
contended not only that we had a right to retaliate.*
but that such a right shoOld be exercised with pru-
dence and eiretnspeCtion.—Never did he thii4 of
advising to visit the French Government with an
imitation of their violences, or to confiscate French
property in the British Funds; on the contrary, he
had most distinetly stated; that no , measure of
that nature shOuld be resorted to that was not
regulated by policy and prudence., It- was asked;
why not move at once for the removal of Mi-
nisters ? Is no advice to be given them by Par-
liament, until, by lapsing from error into error,
they bring the country to the brink of rain,
and then it is high time to propose their removal
It is also said, why interfere while a measore is
pending ? You should do nothing while a thing is
in progress. Such advice 'is quite iu contradiction
to the conduta of the Noble Lord himself while he
a&ed on the other side of the House. All Re-
solutions and Addresses to pot an end to the War
were of that tendency. The War was in a
state of progreSS. Let' it not be stopped. Was
that the mode of reasoning the Noble Lord,
would then have adopted to dissuade the continu-
ance of hostilities ? Much was said about the 'ref :h
Decree of 1798, and about the omission of the then
Administration to adopt any measure in resentment
of it. But it was not recolleeled that in t 798 we
had not the same naval superiority 'we now enjoy.
Now that we are sensible 6f that decided naval pre-'
eminence, why not avail ourselves of it to reta-
liate ? When nothing need be incurred by rash-
ness or impotence—When other nations_ view that
superiority, and see it tmeNerted,what must they think
of us, and of the example we hold out? As to the
supposition that France may exempt Anmica from
the annoyance of her Decree, and thus avail herself
of the infractions of the Law of Nations to such ex-
tent as she may think proper, he trusted the Noble
Lord had not,yet made up his mind upon thit sub-
jeCt. France has put herself wholly out of the
of the Law of Nations, and we should deal with her
as such. Above all, we shoul guard against the
chief of letting Ameriei know by what worms
may operate upon our fears, and how hir re
prepared to assert our rights, Ilk d,
would be a severe wound to our national

no% and interests. A 4 to. the secret rca:,..4ns.. of
the
'Noble Lord foy withholding the.. Par.T, he
shoui..i 11(4 attemp.t to divine them. ‘s.a,;,
willing to ,give the Noble Lord credit for them ;
bad trey been hinted At before., ex. 14:4 the i\.,;;).1e,„
~prcl,tzpresScd. his 91i4ion, ,r that *the atiting the,