The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-13 00:00:00

the twelfth clause was superfluous. The clause win then
Mr. Stamm:re respecting the division of the county of
Lincoln, withdrawn.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET withdrew his no- The thirteenth clause was then inovel, and the question
tire of a motion respecting the formation of a new dis- was put, that the blank in the clause be filled up with
triet of boroughs in Monmouth, the word " three," this beir.g the clause that gives to seven
The question was then put (Upon the tenth clause) that cotintie9 three Members each.
the county of Lincoln should return four Memb, rs to Par- Colonel WOOD did not wish to disturb the harmony
lianuoit, two for the parts of Lindsey, and two for the which prevailed ; but he must oh,-erve, that he did ri,t
parts of Kesteven and Hovland in this county. think this clause would be a boon to any cenntv. Ile
Mr. WILKS thought, that as the House had agreed thought that the Welsh counties were fait ly entitled to some
on the preceding night to the principle of the division of u'dnional representatives in toe new distrihntion, and that
counties, it would not he liberal to the 3linisters or to the several of these counties, both in wealth, population, and
Committee to renew that question upon the case of Lin- halms tauee, might fairly vie with those named in the clause ;
coin.—(Haar, hear. ) As it was tie decision of the Corn under con,:deratien.
mittee that the counties should be divided, he (Mre Vi.) Sir GEORGE CLERK, as one of the representatives
greatly pr fere,d that definite Parliamentary division 1"1. a Scotch county, put in a claim r4l the part of sew._
NS hill] this tenth clause proposed, to any division which iand fir having these seven ad.,itional Members given t
should he left to the discretion of Commissioners over Those counties in it, winch hid a popecatton exceeding
whom Parliament would have no controtel, and who would 100,000 persons. By the return of 1821, there were
have nn fixed rule to guide them.—(He Ir. ) ,even counties possfssing more than that nurnlier, and
Mr. SIBTHOIIPE considered the county of Lincoln triereiore, MI t!le principle at the Nehle Lord (Russell),
one which more than any other required great attention ;idly entitled to he included among those which were to
to be paid to the manner in which it was to or divided. have additional representatives.
One of those Journals which were never favourable in Lord ALTIIORP denied that the Government gave an
their repors of what fell from Hon. Gentlemen on his additional representative on the ground of a county u„i„,
(Mr. Sibthorpe's) side of the House, had so represented more than 100,000 inhabitants. The real reason was,
Isis observations as to make it appear that he was opposed that finding it necessary to give Members to a greater unni-
to the granting of two additional Members to the county of tier of boroughs than they originally proposed, they had
Lincoln. Now he was of a far different opinion ; and he ,dopted the expedient of giving Members to these counties
thought that, taking into account the amount of its pope- in order to preserve a balance for the landed interest.
lotion and the acres of its sui-fice, compared with the polio- lie objected to the proposition of the two Hon. Mem-
lation and extent of other counties which wet eto have ad- hers, for giving additional representatives to Wales and
ditianal Members, it ought to have four added instead of Scotland, because he thought it would create much dis-

two.—(Hear, hear, and hug-Jaen) But he complained
that the mode of division which the 111inisters had adopted
in respect to this county, would place each district in the
condition of a nomination borough.--(Cheers.) (For
some minutes it mt.? imposs ble to hear the Hon. Gentle-

ninn on account of the noise in the House. . The Chair•

man called repea!edly to the Serjeant to request Hon.
Members to take their places.) He (Mr. Sibthorpe) was
not surprised at the discourtesy with which he was treated
by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite.—(Hear, bear.) He
was not one of those who courted factious and partial
journals.—(Hear, hear.) He never wrote his speeches
out, and sent them to the newspapers.—(Hear, hear,
hear, and laughter.) He did not court the journals that
they might make up for the deficiencies of his arguments,
or gloss over the inelegance of his language.—(Hear.)
So help him God ! he would not be deterred from exerting
the utmost of his humble powers in the defence of his con-
stituents—(Cheers, and a laugh)—notwithstanding (as
we understood him) the inattention of the House, and the
negligence or partiality of the Press.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
If he were to go out of the House with only five Members
at his side, he would divide the House.
Sir W. INGILBY was sure that nobody could intend
to interrupt the Hon. and Gallant Member (Colonel Sib-
thorpe), e,peei!elly when he was speaking upo❑ the case of
the county of Lincoln, respecting which no one could be
more qualified to give information to the House than the
Gallant Colonel. But with all deference to his Gallant
Friend, he (Sir W. Ingilby) would say, that although
there was in the northern division of Lincolnshire a very
great aristocratical influence, yet be did not think it was
so predominate as to be able to determine the retur❑ even
of one Member. But in the southern division, he did not
think there was any predominant influence whatever.
There were a great number of landowners in that part not
subject to any such influence. He thought that the divi-
sion of Lincoln into two districts was necessary, on the
same principles on which it had been thought expedient
to divide Yorkshire into three districts.
Mr. HUGHES HUGHES was understood to acquiesce
in the division.
Mr. CROKER requested his Gallant Friend (Colonel
Sibthorpe) not to persevere in his opposition to the clause,
after the decisio❑ to which the House had come on the
preceding evening.
Lord MILTON supported the clause.
Colonel SIBTIIORPE said that it was impossible to
resist the phalanx of the Noble Lord, and be, therefore
would not press the question to a division.
Mr. WILKS thought it desirable that as little as pos-
sible should be left to the discretion of the Commissioners,
and that as much as possible should be decided by the
House. He thought it objectionable that it should rest
with the Commissioners to appoint where the elections
should take place.
Lord ALTHORP thought that the appointment of

the,e places was a matter of very minor imp;;rtance.

Mr. ADEANE thought that the proposition as to the
division of Lincoln was most fair and proper, and more so
than the divisions of the ridings of Yorkshire.
The clause was then agreed to, giving Lincolnshire four
Members.

On clause 12 being proposed, that freeholders for each
division bbould vote as for counties, with the same rights,
Sir E. SUGDEN wanted to know what was the use of
this clause ? If it was meant by it that a man possessing
a freehold in division 1 should not also vote in division 2,
be conceived that that point was too clear to require a
clause to explain it. Or, on the other hand, was it meant,
that if a man possessed a freehold in both divisions, he
should also have a vote for both divisions ?
During these remarks of the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman, the Committee was in a great state of confusion,
in consequence of which
The CHAIRMAN at length rose, and said that he
must call on the Committee to assist him in keeping
order.—(Hear, hear,)
Sir E. SUGDEN said, that he trusted the confusion
would not be misunder stood, and it would not be said that
an attempt had been made to put him down by clamour,
—(Herr, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman was
then proceeding with an argument, the purport of which
waa, as we understood, to show that under the arrange-
ment of this clause the forty-shilling freeholders would
have greater advantages than the large freeholders ; but
owing to the confusion that still prevailed, we are not quite
sure that we understood the intention of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman's argument. At length
The CHAII:MA N again called the Committee to order.
Colonel SIBTHORPE said, that if there was any fur-
ther interruption, he should feel it to hi his duty to move
the atljaurnment of the debate.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir E. SUGDEN then again resumed. This clause
showed the danger of calling the House to legislate with-
out knowing in what manner the counties were to be di-
vided; because it depended upon what towns and boroughs
were placed in each division, whether the rest of the
county representation would not be altogether swamped
by the town and borough forty-shilling freeholders. He
never could agree that the mischief which really belonged
to the borough should be suppressed there and carried into
the country to which it had no right to belong.
Lord ALTHORP interrupted the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman. lie was stating objections to the 16th-clause,
to which he had some amendments to propose, and he
hoped that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would post-
pone his remarks till he had heard those amendments.
Sir E. SUGDEN thanked the Noble Lord for his sug-
gestion, and would not make any observations on that
clause. It was, however, necessary to have somebody to
give a general explanation of such particulars. He would
only further say, that it would he necessary that flip pro-
perty which was to give a right of voting should be
described.
Lord ALTIIORP acknowledged the value of the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman's suggestions. It was the object
of the Bill to give freeholders and copyholders the tight of
voting in towns, and to exclude the freeholders of towns
from voting for the county. The object of that was to
give the country gentlemen an influence which they did
rat now possess. The wish was to draw a line of dis-
tinction between the town and the country representation.
The Noble Lord also stated, that if a man h id two free-
holds in different parts of Lincolnshire, he would be
as much entitled to vote for the two representatives in each
as if he had a freehold in Northampton and Lincolnshire.
That statement would also reply to the question, whether
a man was to have a vote for every freehold he might pos-
sess in every county. It was intended to exclude from
noting non-residents in boroughs, but not non-resident
freeholders. He bad wished also to take away the votes
from non-resident freeholders, but that was found im-
possible.
Sir Charles Wetherell, Sir George Clerk, Mr. Cutlar
Ferguson, the Solicitor-General, and Sir E. Sugden, en-
tered into a conversation on a technical point, and as to
the mode of proceeding.
Lord ALTHORP stated, that to meet the views of the
Learned Gentlemen, he would not bring forward to-mor-
row any clauses which were liable to objection. He would
consent to withdraw the clause then under consideration.
considering that it was not of great importance, and per-
haps not necessary, as the matter was provided for by the

satisfaction in Ireland, which was to have but a very
small addition, and because he did not think that the
wealth and influence of those countries demanded any
such addition.
Mr. LEE contended, •that, even with the addition of one

Member, Cambridgeshire woultl not have its fair share o]

. -
representatives. As it was at present arranged, Cambridge
would have but five Members, but he hoped that Govern-
ment would take into its consideration the claims of the
very flourishing town of Wisbeach. By giving it one
Member, Cambridgeshire would have a representative for
every 23,800 persons, which would he somewhat more in
proportion with that of the other counties of England.
Mr. THROCKMORTON said a few words in favour
of the clause.
Mr. C. FERGUSON could not consent to the proposal
of the lion. Baronet, but he hoped the claims of Scotland
would be duly considered.
Sir G. MURRAY agreed with the Noble Lord (Al-
thorp), that the balance between the, agricultural and ma-
nufacturing interests would be improved by the clause, and
therefore he would support it; but he begged to observe,
that the same arguments would be found to apply with
equal force to Scotland.
Lord MILTON said, that Scotland might consider the
whole of her fifty Members to be given to her by the Bill,
for he believed, with the exception of the Stirling district,
there was not at present a free election from one end of that
kingdom to the other. With respect to the clause before
the House, he objected to it, inasmuch as the seven coun-
ties to which it was proposed to give an additional Member
were not the most important on which that privilege could
be conferred.
A desultory conversation followed, in which a number
of lion. Members participated, as to the clauses which
should be considered this day. It appeared to be under-
stood that only those which were the least important should
be brought into discussion. Eventually, the motion for
filling up the blink with the word " three," was agreed
to, and the House having resumed,
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obained leave
to sit again this day.
Mr. GRATTAN moved the second reading of the
Judicial Officers' (Ireland) Bill.
Sir G. CLERK objected to the extraordinary and
unusual manner in which this Bill had been brought in,
when the election for Dublin was pending. lie complained
that it had been introduced without notice—that it was
directed against the Recorder of Dublin (Mr. Shaw)_
that it had been introduced at two o'clock in the morning,
and only ten hours after the Select Committee had de-
clared that the Members recently returned for that city
had forfeited their seats. It was now, at nearly two o'clock,
proposed to read the Bill a second time. He objected most
strenuously to this, and moved that the Hon. Member for
Wicklow's (Mr. Grattan) motion should be postponed to
that day fortnight.
Mr. GRATTAN said he would consent to ,ne his

j poitpol
motion until Monday ; and the Hon. Baronet was mis-
taken—he had given notice. It did not relate solely to
the Recorder of Dublin ; it affected all Recorders ; arm,
indeed, it could nut interfere with the election of Mr.
Shaw, for it would be impossible for it to -

pass into a law
before the termination of the election. He further
H o
oppositeuse were
remaining, con-
tendedinc that the duties of Recorder of Dublin and a Mem-
ber ot. that incompatible.
to ble
their [iodl?: knowledge
to
Hun. Members
of
tt
trees! IroetGc, dc,evrLa
sEo f DollnKl uy ()gal s.
aiven two cknowledged
be was in error. But
y
s before the bringing in
.leire
anticipatingremarl forltoot himhatitltvia,s,
only
the
dc
aoster
fSatthuenßllord
fate which awaited him from the Reform Bill.
Mr. RICE was in the House when the Bill was iotro-
duced ; he assured the Hon. Baronet no trick was in-
tended : nor small as was the House, and late the hour,
vr„uld any have been permitted. lie had rot read the
Bill, but he was satisfied it was not dircted against any
Sir R. INGLIS showed, from a passage in the
that it did refer particularly to the case of the Recorder of
Dublin, and moved that the Bill be read that day six months.
Sir C. WETHERELL seconded the motion, and ob-
served that the Bill might properly be styled a Bill to ex-
clude Mr. Shaw from Parliament.
Mr. GRATTAN expressed his willingness to withdraw
the Bill.
Mr. HUME and Mr. RUTIIVEN objected to the with-
drawal of the 8111, thinking that the objectionable part of
it, :elating to a part:eular individod, might he set riAlit
the Committee. They would prefer having it negatived
at once, that it might be known who voted against it.
Mr. RICE declared that he for one would voto against
it, as he found that it did bear particulatly against the
Recorder for Dublin.
Mr. LEFROY remarked that the Bill would not even
answer the purpose it professed, of keeping the Lim:older
of Dublin out of Parliament, since he might sit for any
town or borough in Great Britain.
The Bill was withdrawn.
Loid ALTHORP moved for a Select Committee to
consider the charges from the Civil Government of the
United Kingdom, heretofore defrayed from the Civil List,
and remaining to be provided for. He gave notice that
he would not consent to have the pensions from the Civil
List overhauled by this Committee; but hoped no objec-
tion would be taken to his motion on this account, as
those lion. Members who differed with him on the subject
might with equal advantage bring the question under con-
sideration at a future period.
Mr. GORDON seconded the motion, but at the same
time gave notice he would, on Thursday next, move chat
the pensions be submitted to the Committee, being, as he
was, desirous to have the question debated in that House
The motion was then agreed to, and the Committee
appointed.
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a Quarter past Two.

Mr. Hunt (yesterday, the hlth) presented a petition from 3000
of the electors of Preston, praying for a repeal of the Corn Laws,
stating that these laws were passed in 1815 at the point of the
bayonet ; that they were iniquitous, unjust, partial, oppressive,
inhuman, and unnatural. The petitioners also - cautoned the
House against refusing to take their complaints into deliberation,
in order to remove all restrictions on the free importation of
Corn. On a division,

There were against the petition lying on the table 122
For lying on the table 6
Majority against the petition lying on the table --116
LIST OF THE MINORITY

Of EIGHT who;;Cedfor the PETITIOti from PRESTON
lying on the Table.
Forbes, Sir C. O'Connell, I). TELLERS.
Forbes, John ltuthven, E. Hunt, H.
Hume, Joseph Shiel, R. L James, W.

general clause.
Mr. C. NVYNN suggested the propriety of re•commit-
tiq the Bill after the Noble Lord had made the alterations
which he proposed in the Bill, and not proceeding with it

Voted on the 11th AGAINST the DIVISION of COUNTIES.
Adeane, 11. J. ! I
Hughes, Hughes O'Connell, I.
Duncannon, Viset. !Lennox, Lord G. Throgmo,ton, R. G.

The new romance entitled " The Young
Duke," by the author of " Vivian Grey," is " a moral tale
though gay." The same brilliancy and wit that lent such
a charm to his former work likes ise characterize this pro-
duction. The career of " The Young Duke," is traced
from his coining into possession of an enormous fortune and
plunging into all tke extravagant enjoyments by which
knav-ca surround the young and opulent. By the advice of
a certain Sir Cute Blanche (a capital portrait of a living
architect) he is induced to poll down the lordly mansions
of his ancestors, and rebuild them in the gorgeous, but ef-
feminate, taste of the present day. He makes lavish pro-
posals to a prima donna for whom he fits up a palace in
all the profusion of eastern luxury. And then, in order to
prove " a noble contempt kr assets," bets heavily at Ascot,
where, of course, he is gloriously fleeced, and sits for too
days and nights together at the hazard table of a certain
" subscription house" in St. James's-street, finding himself
at his rising not only exhausted and destitute of self respect,
but also a loser to an am&unt sufficient for the foundation
of a noble house.

till Tuesday.
Mr. CROKER also suggested the propriety of not
meeting to-morrow.
Lord ALTHORP agreed that some of the clauses ought
to be printed, but at the same time those clauses ought to
be explained to-morrow. He would not press any doubt-
ful matter to-morrow, but still thought it desirable to

meet to-morrow.
The ATTORNEY.GENERAL was of opinion that