The Sun.
London, England, 1838-06-02 00:00:00

Company and Lord Petre and Mr. Labouchere, which had led to some
opposition to a second reading on a former occasion, had been amicably
adjusted.
The Bill was then read a second time.
Mr. DOTTIN brought up the Report of the Committee on the
Southampton Pier Bill, which was ordered to be engrossed.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented the Report of the Committee on
the Greenwich Railway and Pier Bill.
Sir JOHN MORDAUNT brought up the Report of the Committee
on the Leamington Priors Gas Bill.
On the motion of Mr. CHALMERS the Lintlithgow Roads Bill was
read a third time and passed.
SOUTHAMPTON DOCKS.

On the motion of Mr. DOTTIN the Southampton Docks Bill was read
a third time and passed.
Mr. BRA MSTON presented several petitions from parishes in Essex,
against the alienation of Church property.
Mr. BARNARD presented a petition from Woolwich against the
union of that parish under the Poor-law Bill.
Mr. G. BERKELEY presented a petition from Gloucester, praying
for a uniform rate of postage.
Mr. ESTCOURT presented a petition from the clergy of Sarum
against the alienation of Church property.
Mr. W. EVANS presented petitions from Evesham and other places
against idolatrous worship.

Lord J. STUART presented a petition from Salcoats, against any
further endowment to the Church of Scotland.

Mr. CHALMERS presented a petition from Montrose against the Irish
Salmon Fisheries Bill; also, a petition from the same place, complain-
ing of the state in which the Reform Bill left the representation in
Scotland, and praying that some means might be adopted to remedy the
defects that existed.

Mr. HINDLEY presented petitions from Ashton-under-Lyme,
complaining of the injurious operation of the present Beer Act; also a
petition against the further existence of Negro slavery.

Mr. CRESSWELL presented a petition from Liverpool signed by
5,000 persons, praying for a reduction of postage.

Mr. BAINES presented a petition from Leeds praying for an alteration
in the Factory Act; also one from the Corporation of Leeds, complain-
ing of the operation of some clauses in the Municipal Reform Act, re.
lating to the admission of freemen.

Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition from Wolverhampton in favour
of Mr. Rowland Hill's plan.
THAMES NAVIGATION.

Mr. LEADER presented a petition from the Free Watermen re-
siding in the united parishes of St. Margaret's and St. John's, West-
minster, praying that their rights should be considered in any Act to
be passed for the Navigation of the Thames.

Mr. CLAY presented a petition from the inhabitants of the Tower
Hamlets, complaining of the operation of the Highway Rates Bill.
Mr. C. LUSIIINGTON presented a petition from the Synod of Edin-
burgh, against idolatrous ceremonies in India.

IRISH EDUCATION.
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON presented a petition against the National
system of Irish Education.

Sir R. PEEL moved that the Select Committee upon petitions should
have liberty to bring up their Report, and the evidence taken before
them.—Agreed to.

The Right Hon. Baronet then brought up the Report and the evidence.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL it was ordered, that the
House at its rising do adjourn till Wednesday next.
Lord G. SOMERSET wished to ask the Hon. Member opposite (Mr.
Gordon) what course he intended to pursue with respect to the Dean
Forest Bill ?
Mr. GCR.DON said that it was his intention to proceed with the
Bill to-night, if he found that he had an opportunity of doing so at a
reasonable hour. If he had not, he should then move for a Committee,
proforma, and ask for the appointment of an early day for the farther
consideration of the Bill.
Mr. WARD gave notice that he should on Tuesday, the 9th of
June, move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the 27th
clause of the Reform Bill. Among the provisior.s of
that Bill would be one that the Paying of the rates
of dwelling.houses would be the condition of voting.
Mr. H. JOHNSTONE gave notice that, on Thursday next, he
should present a petition from the Church of Scotland. He should also
at th., same time move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the
p:esent mode of elections in Scotland.

Mr. GIBSON gave notice that he should on that day fortnight move
for certain returns relative to the Synod of the University of London.
The Honourable Member then begged to ask the Noble Lord, the
Secretary for the Home Department, if he had received any information
of the preliminary arrangements in the University of London, so as to
afford an idea of when they would begin conferring degrees. The
Charter had been granted in 1836, and the public were wondering that
the time had not arrived for conferring degrees.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL believed the arrangements were nearly com-
pleted.

THE RIOT AT CANTERBURY.
Mr. PLUMTRE begged to ask the Noble Lord the Secretary for the
Horne Department a question relative to the terrible and sanguinary
affray that had taken place near Canterbury.—(Hear, hear.) He
wished to know if the individual who was the chief author of
that melancholy business was not a decided madman, and for some
been confined in a lunatic asylum in the County of Kent. He wished
to know by whose authority that individual had been set at liberty
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said with regard to the occurrence
that had taken place he could only say, that the accounts
received by the Government from the magistrates and the military
authorities coincided in most particulars with the public accounts with
which the Hon. Gentleman was already acquainted. With respect to
the person who was the chief cause of that unfortunate occurrence,
he was found guilty of perjury in the year 1833, at the assizes for
the county of Kent. He was then said to be of unsound mind, and
was confined from the year 1833, in the County Asylum. Towards
the latter end of last year his father informed him (Lord John
Russell), as Secretary of State, that although his son
exhibited some degree of unsoundness of mind, yet he
had not been found guilty of any criminal act of violence, and he stated
that he would take charge of him, and would be responsible for his safe
keeping. Upon that representation he (Lord John Russell) directed
immediately that the committing Magistrate should give an
account of his state of mind, and an account was forwarded
by the surgeon of the Asylum, that he was certainly still of unsound
mind, fancying himself Sir Wm. Courtenay, a Knight of Malta, and other
erroneous impressions. There was nothing to show that there was any
thing dangerous in the character of his madness, and he had no reason to
doubt that the person who was his father, and who was represented to
him as a man of very good character, could undertake the chargeof his son ;
upon these representations and upon that engagement the person was
discharged. The father afterwards went to the Lunatic Asylum and
represented that his son was to be given up to any one ilQnamcd, and lie
appointed a person in the county of Kent, who appeared to be unfit for
the charge of a person in that unfortunate condition. The
person had been convicted of perjury, and it was for thai
crime ; there had been nothing at all previous to show that he was
of a violent temper or in any way given to violence. Under these cir-
cumstances he (Lord J. Russell) consented to the wishes of the father
and upon his undertaking to take care of him.
Sir J. SINCLAIR wished to know from the Noble Lord, whethet• there was any connection between these riots and the Poor-law Bill, as
was attempted to be made out in some quarters.
Lord J. RUSSELL fully believed, although he had not sufficient in-
formation to give a direct answer—he fully believed that there was in real connection between them. Among other topics the New Poor.
law Bill was one of the subjects used by the unfortunate person to de.
lode those who followed him. A pei son in such circumstances was apt
to take advantage of any law for any cause of exciteirent that existed at
the time.—(Hear.)
Mr. PLUMTRE did not believe that the Poor-law 13111 formed any
prominent subject in the addresses of this person to the people.—
(Hear.) That he was a madman there was no doubt, and it
was in his (Mr. Plumtre's) own knowledge that formerly when he was
at liberty, he drew astonishing embers after him, and he certainly
thought that it was very singular and very much to be deplored that he
was set at liberty.

Sir It. VIVIAN had been applied to upon this subject by
an Honourable Friend, a Member of that House, who he
was sorry not to sec in his place, who stated that the family
and friends of the unfortunate person were very respectable, and
that they were very desirous of having him under their care.
The application was also joined by the wife of the person. In answer to
the petition which he (Sir It. Vivian) had presented, the Noble Lord
was very particular in his enquiries before granting the prayer of it, and
it was then only granted on condition that the father should take charge
of him himself.

Sir R. PEEL—I wish to ask whether, previous to the actual
collection of the persons which led to the unfortunate collision of the
military, the magistrates made any representation to the Noble Lord
that this individual was occupied in agitating the mind of the people?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—•I received no representation of that kind.
Sir ROBERT PEEL—Some days previous to what actually took
place, did any accounts reach the Noble Lord that the individual was
occupied in agitating the public mind ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I received no intimation of that sort.
WEST INDIES.

Mr. BIZOTHERTON seeing the Under Secretary for the Colonies in
his place, wished to ask hint whether there was any foundation for the
report that additional troops had been sent to the West Indies to pre-
serve the peace of the colonies ?

Sir GEORGE GREY had stated on a former occasion that her
Majesty's Government had not thought it necessary to increase the
military force in the West Indies in consequence of the recent votes in
that House. They had thought it right merely to send out correct in-
formation with respect to the proceedings of the House, trusting to the
efficacy of the executive, and the state of the public mind to preserve
peace.

EDUCATION IN SCOTLAND.
Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that, on Thursday next, the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would move for a Select Committee on Education in
Scotland.

IRISH MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS.
On the question being put that the House go into Committee upon
the Irish Blunicipal Corporations' Bill,
Mr. D'ISRAELI said he found that two powerful and rival parties had
agreed to effect a compromise. In a country like Ireland, forming so
important a part of the empire, he thought it was necessary that there
should be a clear, intelligent, and precise idea of the principle in favour of
which this compromise was to be effected. He supposed that such a com-
promise could only be founded on the principle upon which Ireland
was hereafter to be carried on. If that were not the case, he
regard it as a miserable expedient, having no other object than to effect
a melancholy lull, instead of the calm, which men of both parties must
be anxious to witness and enjoy. The Government must be carried on
upon one principle or other--good or bad. Ireland had for centuries
been governed upon the principle of conquest—that the minority should
rule the majority. Amongst the artificial means made use of for this
purpose, he looked upon the existing Corporations as the most im-
portant. He believed that the only mode in which Ireland
could be governed was upon the principle of centralisation. He be-
lieved that was the only principle upon which that Ireland—he
meant that island—(Great laughter)—could be governed, and for
this reason, if for no other, that the delegated Government of England
in Ireland at this moment was the wily authority which could be
trusted with the exercise of power, because it was the only au-
thority that -could The looked to, to exercise power without passion.
He apprehended that the policy of the last few years had been based
on the principle of centralization. He might be asked, why with these
sentiments he could reconcile himself to support the proposition of the
Right lion. Baronet ? "He looked upon this as a necessary and
inevitable compromise. He did not believe that any system of
Government could answer for Ireland, which was not established on the
principle of centralization. In supporting the proposition sketched out
by the Right Hon. Baronet, modified as it was, he recognized it as
the principle on which the Right Honourable Baronet would wish to
govern Ireland; and unless he was informed: by the Noble Lord
that this was the principle on which he intended to recommend the
government of Ireland, he (Mr. D'lsraeli) should feel reluctance in
assisting any compromises which could be productive of any
ultimate utility. The Noble Lord had shown that he could carry
on the Government with the aid of the principle of civilization,
for lie had the advantages of a stipandary magistracy and a paid
police ; and he thought there was a great deal of inconsistency
in the Noble Lord announcing his intention of assimilating the insti-
tutions of the two countries in a country where ha could not
trust the rural magistracy or constitutional authorities of the land
with the preservation of order. He trusted the House would leans from
the Noble Lord that lie had accepted the principle of centralization as
the principle on which he would in future govern Ireland.
The House then went into Committee, Mr. BERNAL in the Chair.
Upon clause 1 being put, Mr. SHAW moved as an a nendment that
the schedules A and B should be joined into one, in order that the claven
towns to which it was intended to grant Corporations sbould be included
under the same provision,

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, JUNE 2, 1838.

Lord J. RUSSELL thought it would be then convenient to state his
general view of the two principal points insisted upon by the Right Hon.
Gentleman the other night.—(Hear, hear.) He would not then enter
into the general question, or any particular clause, or any detail, but
state his view of those two propositions. He conceived one of those
propositions to be, to give corporate rights and privileges to eleven cities
in the schedules A and B, giving those in schedule C, and other places,
the power to apply for corporations, which now had none. The other
proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet regarded the franchise, and in-
sisted on having it to the full value of 10/. The Right Hon. Gentleman
proposed one franchise for all the different classes of towns, and after
constituting such franchise provided that it should be founded on the
qualification established by the poor-rate, which was to be the criterion.
—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the first proposition to which the amend-
ment of the Right Hon. Member for the University of Dublin referred,
although he (Lord J. Russell) would prefer the proposal then standing
in the Bill, yet as it contained an enactment that a certain number
of the principal cities of Ireland should have' corporations, and ad-
mitted that other towns might have them on sufficient grounds, he
thought it a point of difference which he could waive.—(Hear, hear.)
With regard to the other proposition, relating to the franchise, it
seemed to him, after the best consideration the Government could give
to the subject, that a 10/. franchise would be too high a qualification.
—(Hcar, hear, from Mr. O'Connell and other Irish Members.) He
was not then going to argue the question. In anything that had been
stated the other night by the Right Hon. Baronot, in declaring the ne-
cessity of having a 101. franchise, he founded his reasons upon general
grounds, without making :any distinction with those who were peen.
liarly anxious to see this measure pass could at all esteem offensive.—
(Hear, hear.) The grounds upon which he placed his conviction of such
a rate of qualification would apply equally to Scotland as to Ireland.--
(Hear.) Therefore, with respect to the mode of reasoning pursued by
the Right Hon. Gentleman, he (Lord John Russell) would only say
that he was ready to follow the same mode of reasoning, although he
should certainly come to a different conclusion. When they came
to discuss the amount of the franchise he should be prepared to argue it.
He would then only say he would not wish to propose any franchise that
would be unreasonable—and he expected that, with regard to all the
other points, there would be hardly any great difference. If the point
of franchise could be satisfactorily arranged, he was not disposed to dis-
pute the amendment upon the present clause.
Sir R. PEEL agreed with the Noble Lord that it was a matter of in.
difference whether the present clause should stand as at present or as
proposed to be amended. His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Shaw) did riot
propose to exclude schedule C. But it was necessary his proposition
should have been made, for it should first be assumed that the principle
was admitted. His proposition was that 11 towns should have corpora.
tions, and he assumed that these should be based upon a 101. franchise, in
which case it would be necessary to have two schedules, when the whole
might be printed in one. The question of franchise would arise upon
the 6th clause, which contained the amount of franchise. He had en-
tirely fulfilled his engagements—(Hear, hear)—and had prepared amend-
ments, which he should propose in the progress of the Bill; but these de.
pended on the settlement of the question of what the franchise should be.
Ile felt hound to state, although he wished to suggest his amendments in
a conciliatory spirit, yet lie did not do so without the fullest considera-
tion—(Hear, hear)—and when that clause came to be discussed he in-
tended to stand steadfastly—to adhere to the principle.—(Cheers.) Sup.
posing the House would determine upon a 51. qualification, it would
place him in a difficult situation as regarded hi) subsequent amendments
which were constructed on the idea of a 101. franchise. However, that
qeestion would be decided upon the 6th clause.
Mr. O'CONNELL would esteem it very convenient if the proposed
amendments were'known to him more in detail. He did not understand
the principle, and that was the diminishing of the franchise, by an in-
crease of the rate; making it as exclusive as at present, only in a differ-
ent way. The distinctness with which the Right Hon. Baronet an-
nounced Isis intention of adhering to this rating principle, showed what
a thing the compromise which had been spoken of was. They might
call it a compromise, but it was no more than a proposal made by one
party to another, which that other had not assented to, and to which a
third was lett out of the question altogether.—(Laughter.) It was time
the people of Ireland should understand this boon. They would not
accept it as a boon, for there was no people in the world less likely to be
deluded by any such compromise. A Bill had passed that House, and
was then in the House of Lords, purporting to relieve distress in Ire-
land. He would not then enter into the principle of the Bill, except to
say that it was a bad way to provide for the destitution by making more
of it by taxation. That Bill had not passed into a law, yet it was laid
hold of for party purposes, and made the instrument for lessening
the franchise. For, as lie understood the proposition of the Right
Honourable Gentleman, the Poor-law was to be made the in.
strument for diminishing the number of voters by raising the
rate. He did not care for the conciliatory words, as they
were called. They had the conciliatory words the other night, but
they had the more stern determination of the Right Hon. Baronet that
evening. A diminution of the franchise was not the scheme which a
t,
ios
etia
r;
its
iecst
at f
classes,
elm
stha
bn
a udt would have recourse to for the tranquillization of he-
ti:
iennbti
land, of persuading her into a belief that she possessed the same Go-
,erlvpaietonpolet nTdehrethe dominion of party, but identified with the
England.itot
a some
ccompanied
ie saidnpta, as
dfatt,
by
ytal
siaegßilEmancipationlntgaprivileges
al
away
ys Bill
ohl
ethhraeidg
hwdone
.f
•
awna si
individual
,oicianu
at ol
ftrhoemCtaht
the
oplricivgffilereangntertyoilflogfathe privilege of entering that House,
nerally. That Bill was framed for thlsreellmta:i
of sitting upon the bench, ofholding commissions in the army and navy,
in that
habl:utl IpiEr Cps
e•ot.soe theoTfh pee
xefoacjcl)ulted:gzei
that the necessity for agitation had become an axiom in politics, as it
was only by making Governments uncomfortable the people obtained
their rights -,(" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) What
were they doing, now ? They had given England and Scotland Municipal
Reform, and were now insulting Ireland by audaciously refusing her
a similar boon.—(Hoar, hear.) What Ito wished to say was, that
if Ireland was to hare Municipal Reform it should be the same as that
enjoyed by England and Scotland—(Hear, hear)—a similar franchise
to that of those two countries—he desired no more; but he did not wish
to see the objects of the Bill defeated by any dexterity. If that, in de.
stroying the present corporations, they only added to the power of a
certain portion of the people of Ireland, then the measure would be
considered by the remainder merely as a paltry instalment, to he used as
a means of obtaining the rest. He was ready to go into the discussiOn
of the question, if the object was to perfectly assimilate the municipal
institutions of the two countries, and would be willing to use the Par-
liamentary franchise as the basis for establishing the burgess qualidea-
tion, but he would avow it openly that nothing but perfect assimilation
to the institutions of England and Scotland would satisfy the people of
Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir R. PEEL said, the Hon. and Learned GenticmanThas given many
reasons for disagreement on this question; but it is quite evident that
the object and effect of his speech is to prejudice the future discussion
on the measure.—(Hear.) Sir, I find that the. Honourable and
Learned Gentleman has observed that I stated more sternly to-
night that which I stated more mildly on a former occasion.
am not aware of having adopted any additional sternness of manner, but
I trust that a settled determination may be evinced without any cope-
aismptoe in
de
,riec e w• as nioitohni
.n gan
di n
Line
ayr
nineda n nGe re :thee., a other hteor
tnhiigntikt

s ttti clear
ency
plhatovethelaifidrst seven wtaosivnasttahlel
phreaht
aahled.epasrteuw7
Sir, froml
find with
course
respect
ect
l
qualification for the franchise is thus construed that tleve constituency
i
is to be composed of
is
sf t
ot tenements 11n0e1n. t,s,
cof s theh .1 shall
l
full
not require a
yearly value of ten pounds. 'l'he Honourable and Learned Gentleman
hopes that when we say the
qualification also to the amount of 201. I quite agree '
with him in this
—(Hear, bear)—but when you tell me that this franchise is to be
limited to persons possessed of a bona fidc.qualifica tie n to that amount,
I call on you to frame your enactments to correspond with your doe.
trine.—(Hear, hear.) For this reason I wish the Poor-rate to be made
gainTh e
some Honourable
advantage
tnyiss t, I it
that,
that
ti t,
ai
ss
aa
the standard for ascertainingit
ttrheeshqaulailbifieeattosioai
Learned Gentleman seems to think that I wish .to
prejudicing the people against
by adopting the l'oor-law as a standard; he
ood test.—(hear,u,ilpa It hear, hear.)
lti ehaern. ),
Pular law, and that by using
imnguniacipaelernetfroorlmlie.g Allel,e elks,ayittvitihs raespect
asvuerdento(t3et'llitel Gentleman
i tevsetryt nuvlOPlv°:
I think, also, that it would be v
air:Hortpot:y-I.st
Ithhe
different principles of rating in theery objectionable to have two
for the sake of argument, that Poor.lawthperineiglsame borough. I assume,
instead of adopting a different
ciple from her Majesty's Government, andPluoriPiloyses
Yearly
shouldtlyvalue,
whilea common mt
the
on
Hon. Principle
nd
LfeoarrPia,pleeol of rating, all I urge is, that
slightest
hnl t
eiborrowsntsii
idea
thhtheoa,t, prin.imnyy
value it as being clear
object
;el
csta
itsistfontory. or-rate will define the clear
proposition could tend to that result.
of the principal towns in Ireland a bona fide3 itf cannot be that in eleven
value of 101. would give a monopoly to
theranchise of the annual
perpetuatel
Protestant inh b. a 'tants.--
(Cheers.) I believe it would be much more likely fair to give a balance
of public opinion than to establish monopoly.
But it i
view to this part of the subject I propose it,s not with any
although at the
same time I must express my fixed determination to adhere to my pro-
posal, namely, that in eleven towns the franchise shall be 101., instead of
seven towns, as proposed by the Bill ; and with respect to the other
towns—not excluding them from corporate franchise
it, a question I leave to be decided by those interested
where
they desiree
grant-1
must adhere to the course I indicated on a former inth
the tone
of
the
Public
occasion. Sir, it
is impossible for me to avoid perceiving, from
organs out of doors, that there is a strong claim todefeat our ex-
ertions for an amicable settlement of these great Irish questions.--
(Hear.) We are chat ged with not having obtained the abandonment
of the appropriation clause, and because of making disgraceful
sions to our opponents. All these intimations will not in the eerie"-
slightest de-
gree affect me in my support of the principle indicated on a former oc-
casion, and which appeared to me at the time to give unqualified satis-
faction to a very large proportion of the Members of this House. lam
not in the slightest degree intimidated by these demonstrations; but
shall per Severe in my exertions to bring these questions an amicable
settlement.—(Hear, hear.) And I very much doubt if I fail, whether
I shall not stand acquitted in the eyes of those who wish the suspension
of that agitation in Ireland which has prevented the settlement of this
question, and caused such grievous inte •
rruptions to her prosperous ad-
vancement.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL must differ with the last
the Right Honourable I3aronet. Ireland, (Mr. O'Connell's)
opinion, had never gained anything but by in
his
agitation, and there was no
better witness of that than the Rig ht Hon. Baronet himself, who, in the
case of Emancipation, had yielded not to his reason or his judgment, but
to agitation. For the rest of the Right Honourable Baronet's observa-
tions he agreed with them in words--the question was, whether they
agreed as to the amount of value required—
the question was, how it w
Baronet would see that
his a'to be ascertained P The Right Honourable
test would not answer. In Belfast, where a
police rate was settled b
by sworn valuators, those valuators afterwards
proved before the Fictitious
for the rate at Si. Were , Votes Committee that many houses valued
Right Hon. Baronet orth 10/. He was quite willing to meet the
half
way in concession ; but on the question of
rating ho could not consent that any man should avoid the payment of
taxes by forfeiting his franchise.
Sir It. PEEL he
should have the ver meant to say that a party who had the right
option of declining to claim his franchise. He would
have sworn valuators appointed to make the rate, and then if the party
rated considered he had
been rated too highly he would oppose the
rate, and thus the real value would be ascertained. But in all cases
should he intended there be a third party to exercise their impartial
judgment as to whether the premises had been fairly valued or not.
Mr. SHELL thought
interest would be pit that by the Right Hon. Baronet's plan the voter's
against his desire to obtain his franchise—a cir.
cumstanee which did not
not occur in England or Scotland. He had listened
to the Right Honourable Baronet the other night with great attention,
and could not gathe
In his speech on that occasion that his determi.
nation as to the test was from
was unalterable& The Right Hon. Baronet, then
said that, even su ,
nion had decided in the
Peer-law
did
not
pass,
still that public opi-
favour of municipal institutions for Ireland.
Sir R. PEEL
said
that as the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
seemed to have misunderstood him he would repeat what he (Sir R.
Peel) said on the
occasion alluded to. What he said was that he would
aw
-
adopt the Poor l• as affording
a safe test. He assumed, for the sake of
argument,
that the Poor-law would pass; but supposing it did not pass,
then he would borrow this principle as affording Within itself a controll-
ing check. Thus far
Lord JOHN his intention was unalterable.—(Hear.)
had taken it wouta RUSSELLbe
e thought that from the turn the discussion
better to postpone the early clauses, and come at
once to the sixth.

He would wish,
Sir E. SUGDEN understood that there was no objection made to the
amount of franchise, but merely to the mode of ascertaining the value.
then, to ask the Hon. and Learned Gentleman what he
would propose as a test of value.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable
and Learned Gentleman was mistaken in saying that the mode of rating
differed in England and Scotland, as by a late Act all property was as.
sessed at its true value.
Mr. O'CONNELL would answer the question of the Right Hon.
Gentleman at once. At present he would ascertain the value pre.
cisely as it was ascertained for the Parliamentary Reform Act for
towns and boroughs. He took it, that wherever 101. a-year rent was
paid it afforded conclusive evidence of the value. So far it was a test