The Sun.
London, England, 1807-01-30 00:00:00

MILITARY RETURNS.

Ordered, on the Motion of Lord C ASTLEREAGA
(Mr. Secretary Windham having previously inti).
mated that he'. should not oppose the notion), thait

to • bc.

of h \ I
139- ,

is b lore the noose a Return of the num-
,,,,•,nited to complete the Establishment
. ' Army on the Ist of Jan.
.• fr.in Foreign Corps, and

Infantry from Cavalry. •
'Also a R..-:wrn Of t he number and effeaive strength
oF t ~ei-vice of itecruiting
tor (in the Ist of Jan. 1806, and
.-- • •

;1'

.Ako a T.lturn of-the number of persons employed
on (,)e ist of Jan 1807, in levying men under the
I t truaions of the month of 04ober, ISo6,
inose on the hart-pay.
Also a Return of the number of casualties by death,
discharge, and desertion, from the Ist of January,
805, to th. 1 tit January, 1807, fifying the date
of the Returns of ciiSnalties from foreip stations.
A Monthly'Return of the desertion, at home dun,:
ing the same period, specifying those had been
approved at ne id-quarters, and the gross number
*at deserted netbre they were approved.
A .ett.tin ot the number of men serving in his,
Maysty's Regular Army, distinguishing.their re-
spe;:ti e terms of service, and their ages, according
hy tile latest lit-turns,-and also the number of pen-
ioners, and the establishments of Chelsea and -Kil-
mainham, distinguishing them into their respective
classes; and the ainount of thor pensions ; also a
Return of non-commissioned Officers who have
re-
ceived the additional, fora service of 14 and 21
ycars, together with the number who having served
t: 1 1-3r..4, are entitled to the additional allowances.
On the lasi Motion being put, Lord TEMPLE ob-
served, that the Returticwere so volumnions, that
they could not be laid- tiefOre the House in sufficient '
time, if'tbe Noble Lt)eci called for them with a
view to the discusSion-bf any military question that
might probabiy be in his contemplation.
Lord CASTLEREAGLI :replied, that the Returns
could be easily made up ; and that his sole object in
moving forthetn was, that the' HouSe -might' have •
every possible information'On this subjea.
PERMANENT AND WAR TAXES.

Ordered, on the motion of Mr. VANSITTART, that
there be laid before the House an Account of all the
Permanent Taxes for the three years ending the Ist
Jan. 1807, distinguishing each- year:
Also au Account of all the War Taxes during the
same period, distinguishing as above.-
COMMITTEE UN THE
..P,U131.,10 VINANiCES.

Lord H. PETTY moved the Order of the Day for
the House to go into a Committee of- the whole
House to consider the state of the public Finanees.
Also, that the 'several ACIS for regnlating the Re-
demption of the Public Debt, and the several Aols
for granting to his • Majesty the various War Taxes,
until a certain time after
..the Ratification of a De,fi-
nitive Treaty, be refired to said Cominittee.
The House having resolved itself' into the Com-
mittee, Mr.- H2IIHOUSE in the Chair;
Lord HENRY PETTY rose, pursuant to his no-
tice, to submit certain financial Resolu.tions to the
consideration of the Committee. He felt, as he na-
turally and inevitably must feel, a very considerable
degree of weight and pressure from the magnittide
and extent of the subject which it was his intention
to. bring under the consideration. of the CoMmittee.
But whilst he was alive to a sense of the pressure
that arose from the magnitude of the subjeet, he
derived a consolation front the rene6tion, that the
consideration of its magnitude would give him a •
• greater claim to the indulgence of the House, and
because he was convinced, . that- 'won the state-
ments which he purposed. that day to submit,
, arising out of the Accounts ths!it had 'been. pre-
-viously moved' for by his Honourable 'Friend
:(Mr. Vansittart), depended all our national -pro•-.-
sperity and welfare. This :was not now a mere sub-
jell of :Npidng, of self-gratification to the 'country,
but the pillar and support upon which our National
Resources were Upheld,'upon which onr Freedom and
Independence rested. Whatever inigbt: be the .pro-
bity of the statements he shotild hive to make, he
'as confident .these circumstances WOuld. give.the
House an interest in them, and procure hitn a patient
and attentiVe. hearing-. He was aware that, theugh
'it. was not unprecedented, it was enusual for the per-
son who tilled the situation he bad the honour to
bold, to open. a statement of thq Supplies and Ways
• and Mews before he was ready to make the loan for
- the year.. Bet he ,coped to satisfy the 110116 e of the pro-
priety, and indeed, in a great degree, of the necessity
ofadopting such a proeeeding.Without farther preface,
theretive, he should proceed to state the Supplies,and
the.arnount of the Ways and acorns with which it

was Froppsd to cover these Supplies for the prvent
year. The aipount of the Supplies had been for the
,st part already votedby th House, and he beg-
ged leave to enuinerate7thein in their respe.tive order.
Tile sum voted for the •• •,•!siiT of .the

Extraottlinaries, was - - :I:16077)833
There had been voted for the Army, for Greatßri:.

tarn - - - - 32,829,67 z.
for Ireland - - • 813 426
Making altogether - --- -- 13,643,e911
For the Barrack ,lle:parttn. for G. Britain 506,23 t
For Ireland - • _ - - 4694456
Making together a sum of ----7.
The sum voted for the ConmiitSary-
General's I)Cpartnii3iit ..as - . 841,527
For the.Orditancc- - - - - - 2,755,474
From which was to be deduced that particular Esti-
mate for the Convnissary-Gencrai's Department, the
principle upon wh:ch it was proposed to vote that
service separately having been previously stated by
him to the House. '

97i,637

These sever.d sitms made a total of z8,z23,786
Thc ninount of the vote for Ordnance was,
For Great Witaia - ' , 3,264.514
For treanci - - - 479,2i6
In all - - . ---
The Miscellaneous Services were,
For Great Britaiu, at - - - 1,1c0,000
fyr I teiahcl - . 666,0.0
T :,getncr - - - -J-'----- 1866,040
~
To ,hose several:sums were to be added the usual
Yott s of Ci-eO, viz

3,743.761

Ppr G..at Itntain

For I r aud. the usual sum of

2,400,000
boo,ooo

Making together - 3,000,a0e
But out of the Vote of Credit for Great Britain was

to be deduoed the sum of one million, to be applied
.to the dis,:nErge of Subsidies at present due. There
w. Aso another, sum of 500,0001. applicable to Sub-
si'l ies, makin.; the whole sAsi applctiie to that pur-
pose out of the Vote of Credit for Great Britain
1,500,0001.: This sum was not equal to what the

.
pre.,ditt circumstances of Europe might require, but
Ite had' no ground for supposiug that any larger
burn would be called for, uor tudeed that any ad-

dition would be required to the amount which he
then stated. This made the amount of the joint
charge of.Oreat Britain and Ireland,
.43,811,4401.
From this aetia to be dedeeled the separate eilserge
ler Great 13ritain, viz. Deficiency on Malt,
.43.015,
200,0. ,01; ' not voted in 180 ti, because impossibleto.
calculate the amount, «80,0001. Interest on Exche-
q.uersßills, 1,200,0001. Those whO were Members
of t)e last Parliament would recollect, that it was in
thy'o last Session thought-to be a more wise and manly
crse to vote the interest that was to accrue on the
Unfunded Debt at once, and not to leave it to be
provided
.for in a subsequent Session. To these
sums were to be added what remained to be
paid, and the 5 per cents. of the.' Loyalty Loafs
of 1797, amounting to 350,0001. which made the
whole of the separate charge of Great Britain
2,030,0001. The total amount of the charge of
both countries, therefore, was 45,841,3401. from
which was to be deduCted two seventeenths, as the
share to be defrayed by Ireland, amountine-
-5,314,2,751. and there would then remain to be de-
frayed ,by Great Britain a'. total sum of 40,527,0651.
Having stated the sums that had been voted, and were
necessary for the service of the present year, he was
next to proceed to a statement ,of the Ways and
Meaps,by which these Supplies were to be met.
The produce of the duty on Pensions, Malt, Tobac-
co, and other articles, he estimated at the usual
amount, viz. 2,720,0001. The surplus of the Con-
solidated Fund.he should estimate at the same amount
as last year, and he was happy to state to the Com-
mittee, that notwithstanding all that had happened
within the last year,notwithstanding all theevents that
had since last Session taken place in Europe, he was
warranted in taking the surplus of the Consolidated
Fund at the same sum as last year, viz. 3,500,0001.
The war taxes he should take at 19,800,0001. This
sum would not comprise the whole of what the war
taxes may be expe&ed to produce. He had every rea-
son to think that they would prove much more pro-
duaive, and bewas happy to take that opportunity
of informing the House, that the measures which had
been taken last year, with a view 'to the colleCtion of
the war taxes, had produced an effea and result be-
yond the most sanguine expeetation, certainly far be-
yond any expectation he had ever formed. From
the assessments that had been made in the course of
this year, on the property liable to the Property Tax,
he felt himself justified. in estimating the produce of
that tax, which had been last year taken at ten millions
and a half, at eleven millions and a half. The other
duties on Customs and. Excise, which were levied as
War Taxes, he should take at the amount of last
year's Estimate, viz. 9,000,0001. There was iti ad-
dition to these another item, which, though of no
very considerable Moment,
,would increase the ag-
gregate of the War Taxes. . He did not think it
right, just at that time, to advert more particularly
to this item ; bdt he was confident, that, when it
should be submitted to the House, it would meet
with their entire approbation. From every view,
therefore, that he could take of the subject, he was
warranted in taking the amount of the War Taxes
prospeairely at twenty-one millions, though he pro-
posed to take them for the present year only at the
burn which he before 'stated,._ viz. ip,soo,oool.
The Lottery he estimated at the same etnount
as last year, namely, 450,0001. To, these he pro-
posed to add a loan of t 2/200,0001. Gentlemen
would perceive that the loan of last year was
eighteen millions, and that it was a circum-
stance Of material importance that The Loan of
the present year should be so much less. The
whole of the Ways and Means, which he had thus
enumeratect, made' a total of 41,106,0001. Titi
sum left an excess of five or six hUndred thous
sand pounds over the Supplies : but he had thought
it right to leave such an excess, in order to ,cover
any possible deficiency that may arise frOm any floc-
tuation that might take place, as flueluations would
often take place- in any of the particulars compp,
sing. the , Ways and Means of the year. Having
thus stated the amount of the, Supplies and of the
Ways 'and' Means to -the ;Committee, he felt,
that, if he were addressing them in common or or-
dinary-times, such as would justify him or his Ma-
jesty's Ministers in taking a narrow view of this
important subjea, he might there close his labours,
and dismiss the Committee from the painful neces-
sity of following him through a more .gthened
statement. But the Committee would feel with him,
that in the present state of Europe, when the ele-
ments of discord, were abroad, whena he independence
of all Nations was at stake, Ministers would not be
justified in taking such a, narrow view of the subject.
'.[-.le was-convinced they would agree with him, that,
in taking a view of this important subject, his Ma-
jesty's Ministers, and the House, should look at the
past, and to the future ; should consider the circum-
stances of this Country,ancl of the World ; and turn-
ing from that gratitude, which they must feel for
their deliverance from past dangers, look with, an
awe, unmixed, however, with apprehension, at that
dark cloud which overhangs Europe, which no
human eye can penetrate, nor any human wis-
dom anticipate the consequences of. Yet though
this cloud may be viewed without fear, it would be
admitted on all hands that it called for the employ-
ru,ent of every degree of precaution and foresight,
in order that, by looking the danger in the face, they
snight.guard against its approach, and provide against
its menaces, in every way that human means or hu-
man wisclont could enable them, and in order to pro-
vide against the possible visitation of a protraeled
warfare. It was their duty with that view, to en-
deavour to adapt our means to the situation and cir-
cumstances of the Country with increased energy and
vigor. Ftar this purpose it was that having stated the
sense he entertained of the situation of the country,
he felt himself bound not to stop short at opening
the Ways and Means of the year, but rather to take
a view of the prospective Ways and Means of the
country, which might be necessary to meet any
future exigency. In this, however, he conceived
it to be his bounden duty not to conceal any part
of the circumstances of the case, whether favourable
or unfavourable. It was undoubtedly his opinion,
that in the view he was to take of the subject, there
were some unfavourable circumstances, and with
these he proposed to commence. It was far from
being to hint a matter of surprise, that in the pre-
sent state of the Finances of this Country it Was
difficult to point out new objects of taxation. It was .
rather a surprise to bim that the Legislature could
have gone 0n,,50 far in the perpetual increase of
taxes as it had 'hitherto done. This would be obvi-
ous to any Gentle,nau who reflected that-in the year

ealf, eftei the American War, the Government Tax&
itiNioptited to t o millions, and that the great Statesmat
who then had the administration of the Finances ofiht
Cetry. had found it difficalt to ?discover new ob.
jetas of taxation, met had eetualty been obliged''te
e.yt,lidraw certain taxes whielehe had proposed-. Ii
would be still more obvious if they reflected that at
the cottelusidn of last war the permanent taxes
amounted to twenty-eight millions, and thatiOnc.e th
,commeticement of the present war they had been
still farther increased to thirty-two I.7nder
such' circumstances it was impossible not to perceive
the diffictilty of devising new' sources :of taxation,
and it was equally impossible not to feel gra-
titude to -the
.Country for the manner en which
it had borne those aggravated burtheps. He did
not mean here to assert, that in relying on the
spirit of the Country, they might not be found to
provide for the interest of the loan of the present
year, or of the year after, or of many years to come.
In this view, therefore, there did not appear to him
to btr any absolute necessity for anychange Of system.
The House was aware, that, in the imposition of new
Taxes, though there Might be a danger of interfering
with the produce of other taxes,the Matter might be so
arranged as to.give the result required, so that they
might still be able to go on in the
.old track, and
to provide for aheinterests of lax-me:loans. But in
the View whiCh he had taken of the situation of the.
Country, and under the circumstances of the proba-
ble continuance c the war-for an indefinite period,
because no wan could rationally- by arguing infer any
certain time at which.. Peace might bexestored to the
Empire, being compelled to look to futurity, they
ought to pay particular attention to the great object
of relieving the SubjeCl. The first consideration that.
occurred on this point was, that it . would be ex-
tremely desirable to confine the permanent Taxes to
their present amount. He should think.fhat policy.
as most short-sighted and unjust that would lead them
to anticipate the resources ..of future generations ;
equally short-sighted and impolitic would it be, -if
the relief of the Subject. which whieh lye deemed so des:ir-
able, was to be obtained by a sacrifice of any of those
principles sanctioned by public opinion, and essen-
tial to public faith, WhiCh it had been the inva-
riable policy of this Country to uphold. If any.
such sacrifice were to be proposed,
.he would be one
of the first to objeCt to the measure, as he should
never consent to a violation of those great principles
of public faith ; all of those means of upholding
the charaCter and the glory
.of this Country in
the proud station which it had always occupied
amongst the Nations of Europe. He came.next_
to a more satisfai.lory part of -his taskin adverting
to the Resolutions which it was his intention to pro-
pose, and which he was happy to think would not
interfere with either of these objels, it was most
gratifying to rate& that the objeas of his Resolu-
tions did not rest upon chance, upon fortune, nor
upon any of those casualities hich usually contti-
bute to rise or to depres§ States. They were the gra-
dual result of the continued exertions, activity, fore-
sight, and industry of tie Country and of the Parlia—
ment. They had been created by unwearied exer-
tion, and secured by wisdom and foresight. The two
great objects to which he looked for thexelief of the
Subject, were the War Taxes and the Sinking Fund.
The policy of raising a large proportion of the Sup-
plies within the year had been first aged • upon
during last war, but had been carried to a much
greater extent during the present war., As it was
on the bass of these two establishments tllat he
meant to build his statement, he trusted the Com-
mittee would grant him their indulgence, if he dwelt
more at large on the origin, ciretimstanees, and pro-
gress
of both, because they were the great distin-
guishing features of this country, and perhaps the
most important establishments that had ever existed in
anycoutry. The Sinking Fend had been first esta:e'-1.
blished in 1786, and was the produCtion of that great I
Statesman, Mr. Pitt; and here he could not but repeat

what, on a former occasion, he had stated as a tribute
due to the merits and memory of that great States-
man—his -enthuSiastic admiratjon of his fiLl3llCial
measures and arrangements, when he called to mind
that'he had been the author of that most important
estahliihmk.!nt that had ever been instituted in any
country. It was matter. of 'pleasing refleetion also,
when they had been at ditterent times called on to
regret-the loss of such distinguished chara6ters, men
who, whatevzr might be the feelings. of pplitical ene-
mies, and no other enemies could they have had,
were universally regretted as great Statesmen, and
the brightest ornaments of the times in which they
lived. • When he looked back to the origin of the
Sinking Fund in the year i7Bti„ it was, he. re-
peated, matter of pleasing reflection, that two
such charaaers, -though they might have differed as
to*sOthe points of detail, had agreed on the general
principle, and that in their unionof sentiment on this
subjea they, however they might- have disagreed
on,other subje&s, supported this great measure with
all .the weight of their authority and opinions.
In 1786, when a million had been appropriated as a
Sinking Kind, the; amount of the Funded Debt of
Great Britain was 238,5731,2444. The Sinking Fund,

therefore, was to the debt as one two hundi:ed and
thirty-eight part of the'whole. In this way it conti-
nued to operate till 1792, when another-financial ope-
ration was proposed by Mr. Pitt, and the measure, on
being explained to Parliament, was adopted and acted
upon. It was then proposed to add. 2040u1. annually
to the Million that had before been appropriated as a
,Sinking Fund;
,and thus since the year 1792 the sum
of one million two hundred' thousand, pounds was
the sum applied, to the purposes of that Fund.—
in 1793, the first war with revolutionary France
broke, out, and another' Sinking Rind was then

created by the appropriation of one per cent. on the
capital of each loan. The original million, however,
constituted a different fund, .for it was not to accu-

ululate perpetually, as the new fund, but
til it should amount to four . millions; after
which, boWever, the smplus was to be applied to
the alleviation of the public burthens by the discharge
of the National Debt. The Sinking Fund of 793
was not subjea to such limitation, but was to

accumulate until it should accomplish the object of
Its establishment. No alteration 'took place in this

. ,
relative state of the two Funds until the end of last
war, when Lord Sidmouth, then Chancellor of the

Exchequer, finding it necessary to fund the debt for
which the produce of the Income Tax had been mort-
gaged, and not thinking it desirable to add to the

taxes which it Was fomid necessary to impose the

one per cent. on capital, agreed, iti order to satisfy
the Stock Holders, to consolidate the original Sink-

in Punt' with the new funde thereby removing
limitation, by which it was not to exceed four led-
lions, its maximum, which it was to amount to iu
18-08. On the Ist of January, 1803, the untedeein-
-I:ed debt amounted to 48*,724,7601. ; the Sinking
Fand was then 6,311,6261. which consisted of the
two funds ; so that from the operation of the Silik-
ing Fund from 1793 to 1803, its amount was
creased. from being /-238th
.part 'of the debt, to
1-77th part of the unredeemed -debt. It next re-
mained for him to state the present amount of the
Sinking Fund, and the proportion ;which it bears
to the debt. The unredeemed .debt of Grant
Britain is at present 530,35kU811.; the Sinking
Fund for the year euditig ist of February next,
[ was 8,333,7091. e so that the Sinking Fund was et
present 1-63 d part of the whole debt,. or 141st,
accordit to the money price of the Stocks. Tile
improvement and extension of the Sinking Fund,
and an improved appliCation of the War Taxes
would be the grounds of the measure he had to pro'
pose this night. The principle of raising a large pork
tio-n- of the Supplies wjthin she year had been first
adopted in 1797, in the triplication of the Assessfd
Taxes ; -a proceeding the most unfair. and utejtist
that could possibly have been framed. He was
not averse to raising .the Supplies' within the
year ; but to raise them by a measure which
assumed expenditure as the criterion of property
was injurious and impOlitic in the highest degree.
The measure was laid aside in tie subsequent
year. But sixteen millions, which had been borrow-
ed upon it, were transferred to the Income Tax,
which yeas substituted for it; and the principle being
followed year after year till 1801, the benefit of the
exertion within the year was in a great degree saerie
feed by this continued accumulation of annual bur-
then ; a mischief which would have still continued
to oppress it if it had not been for the measure
afterwards adopted by Lord Sidmouth, of pro—
viding by permanent taxes for fifty-six millions
of capital, thus charged on the Income Tax, and
six millions of interest. Frem the sensible etlitels of
this mischief, Mr. Pitt was led, in 1801, to abandon
'the praetiO of borrowing upon the credit of the tax.
No part of the loan of that year was charged upon
it ; and in 1802, after, the Peace of Amiens,
when Mr. Addington was. desirous to relic4ve the
Country from the burthen of the tax, and to
allow the extraordinary resources of the Conn-
try to repose and recruit shemSelves, so as to
preserve their full vigour for future. exigencies, that.
Gentleman had recourse to the bold measure of re-
lieviug the fund= from-'this hurt hen which becarto
chargeable immediately upon the Peace ; he at once
repealed the tax, and created funds for ninety-sic
millions of stock, thus freeing the Country from the
arrear, and preserving 'its full means unimpaired for
the future aelion, which they were unhappily too soon
called into. The advantages of this measure were
too striking and too beneficial to require comment-
When the present War commenced, the experience
already had of the advantage of raising a great part
of the Supplies within the year -led to the adoption
of the property Tax+ which, in the first instance,
was-produEtive to a considerable amount. He would
not maintain that it was an equal tax, fir what tax
to that great amount and general nature could be
made to bear equally on all classes of the commu-
nity, or to the circumstances of every iedividual
This was the case with respeee to all general ateasures-
In measures of law as in those of taxation. flow'
was it possible t'o'pr6ient the weight'o'f the same de-
gree of corporal punishment from bearing unequally
in'proportion to the strength of the individual who
Suffered. The great prattical °hied was, to adopt
some general- principle:which would leave no room
for evasion. 'Renee means had been . devised, end
put in force, to secure an exact re-turn -of fticome,
and to insure a stria colle&ion in the Customs and
Excise ; by these means a very large portion indeed
of the expences of the- War were raised within the
year. To these objects the attention of the present
Ministers was called immediately after they entered
into office last year. They found, the Finances,
in a state in which seven millions were added to the
annual expenditure, and' an improvement of only one
million had taken place in the War Taxes. The ex-
penditure
of the Country was overgroWn, and the icoe ,
mediate resources being inadequate, overgrown Jnana,
were again recurring in consequence. In this situa-
tion his Majesty's Ministers thought it their duty
to meet the burthens by adequate exertion, and ts,
provide at the same time for the future operations
of the War. With this view, his Majesty's Minie
stern, thought proper to increase the Property Tax,
and at the same time to make such further additions
to the war taxes, as would make the produce of both
arnoui)t to eighte t l lillions within the year. In
consequence of . resolution, he had the harsh
and painful:duty:Jr pressing uporr Parliament pro-
visions of a severe and galling nature,, 'the prnsi*.6t
of whose operation it was very distressing to his ()till
feelings to contemplate at the time. But though
the task was painful; the- exigency of the public
service, and the magnitude of the oldeEts: that
were in view, would not allow him to shrink from did
duty. • He had some satisfaElion, however, in think.
ine, that though the proyisionemayleaeneen
in the adoption, they were amply produdive in el'
iinasmuch as to justify him in taking the atnoUgt
of the Property TaX this night at 11,500,00,01. tip
amount which combined with the War Taxes,and the,
improved epplication , of the Sinking Fund; would
be amply adequate to defray our future expencesV
any height to which, they could be fairly calculated
to arise.- He trusted he did not deceive the Rouse,

if, while he did not conceal any thing that was 1-11"
favourable, he did not preclude himself &dm thre
benefit of what was favourable. He thought himse"
entitled to take the improved amount .of the W3r
Taxes at e't,000,000l: which, with the Sinkog
Fund, taken at 8,300,0001. would a6rd a free ma:

come of near 30,000,0001. exclusive of the Perioa7

nent Taxes. This was a fad upon which the,,HOLISe
must reflect with pleasUre, and from ,which
-men would go forward, with greater satisfaiaiiin to (14
consideration of how it was to be applied to the C:315
of a war, the nature of which was such as to call
'the utmost possible exertion. He would now .procet'.
to the application of this 30,000.,0001, beyond tile'
Permanent Taxes, to-the present adual expenditure*
In order to arrive at a distinct knowledge of-that Of;
penditUre, it ,ovai necessary t 6 consider _it' distioei
v.
from all demands from abroad, from all ForeignStw
sidics, and from any eventual increase in the price 4
stores; all of which may prodbce casual vari36o,!;
bin not of such a nature as materially to atfo:;t