The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-27 00:00:00

The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and ob-
tained leave to sit on Thursday.
The House then adjourned until half past five for a
Commission, and until six o'clock for business.

The House re-as--iembh)d at Half-past Five o'clock.
ROYAL ASSENT.
The Usher of the Black Red summoned the Speaker
and the House to attend at the bar of the Hou,e of Lords
to hear the Royal Assent given, by Commission, to
several Bills (for which see Lords' report).
PETITIONS.
Sir CHARLES LESION presented several petitions
from Wesleyan Methodists in favour of the Bill !or the
Protection of Women.
Mr. SLANEY presented a similar petition from
several religious congn=gations in Shr,wsbury.
POOR-LAW OFFICERS' FUND.
Mr. STUART presented a petition from Newrirk,
in
favour of a superannuated fund fcr poor-law union
officers.

SMITHFIELD MARKET.
Mr. MACKINNON gave notice that on the 17th
natant he would call the attention of the House to the
report of the Select Committee on Smithfield Merket.
BRITISH. GUIANA.
Mr. HUME gave notice that to-morrow ho would
move for certain papers relative to British Guiana.
CQLONEL MOUNTAIN.
In anserer to a question put by Sir H. VERNEY,
Mr. FOX MAULE said with reference to the indivi-
duals upon whom the honour of the second class
of the Bath was conferred, Colonel Mountain was not
in that class, and the honour that would have fallen to
his lot was the third class of the Bath.
BRITISH G UIANA.
In reply to Mr. HUME,
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was quite true that Gover-
nor Barkly, following the example of persons at home
—(Laughter)—had brought a Bill into Council for the
extension of the suffrage. With respect to the power of
the Governor he would make inquiry, as he was not
aware of its nature since he had ceased to be connected
with the Colonial-office.
Mr. HUME said considerable alarm had been created
in the minds of the colonists.—(Laughter.) He would,
therefore, ask the question to-morrow,
THE COLONIES.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH having presented a petition
from Wellington, New Zealand, signed by 741 persons,
complaining of colonial misrule, proceeded to move an
" Address to her Majesty, that she will be graciously
pleased to appoint a Commission to inquire into the ad-
raiuistration of her Majesty's colonial possessions, with a
view of removing the causes of colonial complaint, dimi-
nishing the cost of colonial government, and giving tree
scope to individual enterprise in the business of colo-
nising." With the permission of the House, he would
state, as briefly as he could, what, in his opinion, should
be the nature of the inquiry, and to what objects it
should be directed. But first, in order to satisfy the
House that there ought to be an inquiry, he would en-
deavour to show what had produced the general con-
fction that there were grave errors and detects in our
colonial government. By far the greater portion of our
modern colonial empire was of recent acquisition. Oar
colonial empire consisted chiefly of conquered provinces,
garrison towns, and gaols. Their government was in-
trusted to a central authority in England. The in-
variable tendency of such an authority is to grasp as
much power as possible, and to resist every measure
which seems likely, directly or indirectly, to diminish
that power. In conformity with these tendencies the
colonial policy of Great Britian was formed, and the
Colonial-office laid claim to omnipotence and infallibility
in all matters concerning the colonies that claim was
long recognised in this country, and scarcely disputed in
the colonies, but of late years it bad been contested, not
so much within as without the walls of this House;
and every colony had repeatedly and energetically
protested against it ; and now the conviction was
daily gaining ground throughout the empire that cur
colonial system was not well suited either to
the state of Great Britien.or of the colonies. In con-
queue() of great emigration, the relations tetween Great
Britain and her dependencies have been profoundly
changed, and there ought to have been a corresponding
change in her colonial policy, which was framed without
reference to any. emigration except that of convicts.
Public opinion had been much directed of late years to
colonial questions in consequence of the discussions
which had taken place with regard to free trade and the
navigation laws, for most of the statesmen of this coun-
try had maintained that there was an intimate con
nexion between the colonial and commercial policies of
of Great Britain. They bad generally defended the
acquisition of new colonies on the plea that such foreign 1
possessions afforded markets for the exclusive benefit of
our manufactures, and produced a trade for the exclu-
sive profit of our merchants and ship-owners; and they
persuaded the nation that in return for. these privileges
it was worth cur while to pay vast sums of money for
protecting and governing the colonies. These privi-
leges being abolished, the question seems very naturally
to arise, why were we to continue to pay for them?
The colonies were free to trade with whom they will,
and in what manner they will. Therefore, they would
only trade with us and employ our shipping
when it was most profitable for them to do so. In the
course of the last fifteen years the colonies haddirectlyrecl
cost Great Britain at least 60,000,000/. in the
military, naval, civil, and extraordinary expenditure,
exclusive of the 20,000,000/. which were paid far the
abolition of slavery. Therefcre, the total direct cost of
the colonies had been at least 80,000,000/. in the last
fifteen years. Now, it lien. Members would merely
take the trouble of recalling to their minds the chief
events which were taking place in the colonies while
this money was spending, they must at once admit that
the result of the expenditure had been far from satisfac-
tory, either to the United Kingdom or the colonies; and
he thought they would likewise admit that there must
be something essentially faulty in a policy which had
such an enormous cost. He would now state what in
his opinion should be the chief objects of inquiry. They
might be arranged under the three heads of colonial
government, colonial expenditure, and emigration or
colonization. Under the existing system in must of our
colonies—he might, indeed, say in all of them, with the
exception of Canada—representative institutions were
rather shams than realities, for they seldom led to the
legitimate consequences of representative government,
namely,responsible government, according to the will of a
majority of the representatives of the people. In almost all
the representative colonies the Colonial• office generally
attempted to carry on the government by means of a mi-
nority of the Representative Assembly, with the assistance
of a Legislative Assembly composed of the nominees of
the Colonial-office. The consequence was a perpetual
struggle between the majority of the Representative
Assembly and the party of the Colonial-office—a
struggle carried on with an intensity of party hatred and
rancour, happily unknown to us; each party rejected
or disallowed the measures of the other party; thus
legislation stood still and enmity increased; after a
time the supplies were stopped, and a dead lock ensued;
then the Imperial Parliament was called on to take the
part of the Colonial-office, and a constitution was sus-
pended; and finally, a demand was made upon the
purses of the British people, who had invariably to
pay the piper in every colonial brawl. Ignorance,
negligence, and vacillati n were three inseparable
accidents of our system of colonial govern-
ment. Ignorance was the necessary consequence
of the distance which intervened between the
rulers and the ruled. Negligence was the invariable
result of the want of effieit nt responsibility, and the
responsibility of the Colonial-office to Parliament was
merely nominal, in consequence of the ignorance of Par-
liament
with regard to colonial affairs. His object was
to prove that our colonial policy worked ill, and pro •
duccd discontent end complaint in the colonies, not be-
cause it was specially maladministered, but because it
was an essentially faulty system, which could not be
well administered. It etas difficult to censure a system
without appearing to censure the persons connected
with it. In order to overccme this difficulty, he (Sir
Wm. Molesworth) declared that his object was not to
censure any person; his motion might be considered to
be a vote of censure on our colonial system, but was not
intended to be a vote of censure on the Secretary of State
for the Colonies. For, in his judgment, the colonies had
not been worse governed by the present Secretary of
State for the Colonies than by any one of his predeces-
sors who had had equal opportunities for so doing. He
knew that a different opinion on this subject prevailed
both in this country and in the colonies; that in conse-
quence of the former speeches made by the present
Colonial Minister, very exaggerated expectations had
been formed of what he would do when in office; that
those exaggerated expectations had been disappointed;
that that disappointment had been embittered by the
injudicious praises of friends and subordinates; and that
hence his name was most unpopular; but in his (Sir W.
Molesworth's) opinion it would be a great mistake to
suppose that either his removal from office or any mere
change in the staff of the Colonial-office would b 3 of any
real benefit to the colonies. The fault was in the system.
--(Hear, hear.) The wonder to him was—not that the
system worked ill—not that it produced discontent—but
that it worked no worse than it did. Consider, said he,
for one moment the nature of its working machinery.
To govern our forty-three colonies, scattered over the
face of the globe, inhabited by men different in race lan-
guage and religion, with various institutions, strange
laws, and unknown customs, the staff of the Colonial-
office consisted only of five superior and twenty- three
inferior functionaries. The superior functionaries were
the Secretary of State, the two under secretaries, the
assistant under secretaty, and the chief clerk. The
Secretary of State and one under secretary left office
with the Government, and rarely retained office more
than two years at a time; they were the ostensible heads
of our colonial system, and were responsible to Parlia-
ment for the government of the coloeies. The three
other superior functionaries, being permanent, were the
real heads of our colonial sysn in; they were screened
from responsibility by the political functionaries; they
were unknown to Parliament, scarcely known to the
public by name, but had become celebrated of late years
under the witty de' ignation
" Mr, Mothercouistry,”
applied to them by Mr. Charles Buller. Subordinate
to these gentlemen the re were twenty-three clerks,
making in all twenty-eight persons for the government
of forty-three colonies. Therefore, with an equal division
of labour, there would not be one c fficial for the govern-
ment of each colony. But no such division of labour
was practicable. The Secretary of State for the
Colo-
nies was responsible to Parliament for the government
of every colony. It was his duty, therefore, to be n
queintel with the affairs of each of the 43 colonies; to.
read and study every dispatch, and to be prepared to
answer, either in his own person or by his under secre-
tary, every qu2stion which might be put to him in either
Reuse of Parliament with regard to the colonies. If he
could divide his time equally between the colonies, as
there were 43 coloqirs, ho could give about a week a
year to the affairs of each separate colony ; but to no
single colony could he at any one time spare a week of
continuous attentior, for every colony, more or less,
required his attention simultaneously; at one thee he
could only give s few hosts to of sly; depeudeacy, then a

few hours to another, and so on, turn and turn about,
traversing and re-traversieg in his imagination the ter-
requeous globe—flying from the arctic to the antarctic
pole—hurrying from the snows of North America to the
hare:ng regions of the tropics—rushing across from the
fertile islands of the West Indies to the arid deserts of
South Africa and Australia—like nothing on earth or in
romance, save the " Wandering Jew."—(Laughter.) For
instance, one day the Colonial Secretary would be in
Ceylon, a financial and religious reformer, promoting
the interests of the ci ffee planter, and casting discredit
on the tooth and religion of Buddha ; the next day he
would be in the West Indies, teachiug the economical
manufacturer of sugar; or in Van Diemen's Land, striv-
ing t re fo:m the friends whom he had transported to
that pandemonium.—(Flear, hear.) Now he would be
in Canada, discussing the Indemnity Bill, and the war
of races; anon he would be at the Cape of Good Hope,
dancing a war dance with Sir Harry Smith—(Cheers)
—and his Kafir sarpets ; or in New Zealand, an unsuc-
cessful Lycurerns, coping with Honi Heki ; or at Natal,
treating with Panda, King of the Zoolehti ; or in La-
buan, digging coal and warring with pirates ; or in the
midst of South Africa defeating Pretorious and
his rebel boers ; or in Vancouver's Island,
done by the Hudson Bay Company ; or in
Victoria, alias Port Philip, the chosen representative
of the l eeple ; or in the Mauritius, building fortifica-
tions against a hostile population ; or in the Grecian
Islands, enjoying (Sir William Molesworth) hoped,
for the sake of his dear friend Mr. Ward, a life of
luxurious ease and perfect tranquillity..—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. HUME seconded the motion. It was universally
admitted that the colonial system was not what it ought
to be, and for the last 30 yecrs it had been a great drain
on the resources of the country.—(Hear.) Some per-
sons were of opinion that the question was too vast for
inquiry, but he was of opinion that the magnitude of the
colonial interests rendered inquiry absolutely necessary.
The colonies under the present system had entailed a
heavy expense on the Exchequer, and had caused a
great loss of individual capital.—(Hear, hear.) The
most lamentable consequences had resulted from the
continual change of Colonial Ministers and Governors,
for it frequently happened that orders were no sooner
issued by one Governor than they were set aside by his
successor. He was anxious :to see the system of self-
government established in t very colony.—(Hear.) The co-
lonies would not be a burden to the country if properly
managed, but rather a source of profit, and their own
interests would strengthen their attachment to the
mother country.—(Hear, hear.) If ever the country
was called upon to devise some means of lessening the
expenditure of the country and encouraging emigration,
this was the time; and he felt quite certain that it
Englishmen, Scotchmen, and Irishmen could enjoy as
much freedom and liberty in a British colony as in the
United States, they would infinitely prefer to live under
British institutions.—(Hear, hear.) It should not be
supposed that he was in favour of an abandonment of
our colonies, but, on the other hand, he was for preserv-
ing them, governing them in such a manner as would
enable them to pay their own expenses, and thus be a
source of strength instead of weakness to the mother
country, by promoting and increasing her commercial
operations, and affording a means of outlet by emigra-
tion for the surplus population of the empire:
Mr. HAWES observed that the Honourable Baronet
the Member for Southwark, in bringing forward his
motion, made a speech which, at all events, contained
statements easily understood. The motion, however,
was one which he might describe as perfectly delusive,
and it was on that ground he should oppose it. He pro-
posed a Commission to be appointed, consisting of five
persons, to inquire into the causes of complaint in their
colonies; to the manner in which the expenditure was
conducted, and the best means of promoting a good
system of emigration. The great cause of complaint in
the West Indies arose in consequence of the change in
their commercial policy, and would the Commissioners
inquire into that, and raise expectations which never
could be realised ?—(Hear, hear.) Then, again, another
source of complaint was the abolition of slavery; would
the Commissioners abolish the great Act of the emanci-
pation of the slaves, and if not, what practical man
could support the present motion for a Royul Commis-
&on?—(Hear, hear.) Another cause of complaint in
New South Wales was the minimum price of land, and
would the five gentlemen of the Honourable Baronet,
who might be located in Downing-street, settle that point,
or arrange the great imperial questions connected with
their colonies, which belonged alone to that House?
Now what course would that Commission take in case of
grievances in the colonies?
Sir W. MOLESWORTH—It would save debates in
that House.
Mr. HAWES—He denied it; for he believed it would
increase debates, and when his Noble Friend at the head
of the Colonial-office bad proposed that the colonies
should be governed by local authorities as much as pos-
sible, he did everything which such a Commission would
propose. Now let them take another step with that
Commission. Who were to be the witnesses? Who
wcre to be brought from the colonies, or were the Com-
missioners to proceed there? Were the witnesses to be
those men who had peculiar notions on transportation
and other topics, but in whom the people of England
had possibly little confidence? Then, how was the
Commission to be composed? There was to be a. free-
trader here, and a protectionist there, a representative
of one corner of the House, and another for that (the
Ministerial side), and that " happy family " was to
settle the unfortunate affairs of their colonies. Then
he objected to it, because the time was singularly ill-
chosen at that late period of the session. The Hon. Ba-
ronet said he attacked the system and not the men; but
in point of fact he attacked his Noble Friend the
present Colonial Secretary, the late Secretary (Lord
Stanley), and all the governors of their colonies
from the year 1756. All they had obtained in the hat
and present century were mostly Crown colonies gained
by conquest, and, therefore, the strictures of the Hon.
Baronet were wholly inapplicable. The Hon. Gentle-
man then referred to the report made by the Committee
of Privy Council in 1841, from which he read extracts,
giving a history of the manner in which their colonies
were formerly governed, and proceeded:—The views and
principles expressed in the report of that Council S+ ere
those which were since carried out by his Noble Friend,
and against which no Liberal in that House had a right
to object.—(Hear.) But that was not all. What was
done at the beginning of the session? An inquiry was
proposed into the colonies, to which he did not object.
That was made—the report of one of them was now
on the table of the House—and it would be seen whether
the charges which were made against the Government
were well founded. The Hon. Baronet also referred to
Ceylon, but he (Mr. Hawes) believed that as the report
was not as yet made. he might have spared his observa-
tions. When his Noble Friend came into office there
were in all 19 colonies to which he was most anxious to
afford tree institutions under popular control, and, as
the House would recollect, introduced a Bill, giving
such institutions to Australia. The Hon. Baronet said
that Earl Grey gave a Constitution to Van Diemen's
Land.
Sir W. MOLES WORTH—But it was suspended.
Mr. HAWES believed the ground en which it was
suspended was not just, because inasmuch as the white
population were much inferior to the aborigines, all of
whom were armee 1, they thought it more prudent not to
press it, lest a civil war might ensue. Then, as to Cey-
lon, a Committee was sitting, under the superintendence
of Earl Grey, which reduced the expenditure service
60,000/. or 80,000/. a year. Export duties were taken
off, industry was relieved, and when the Hon. Baronet
spoke with a certain degree of flippancy on their colonial
ss stem, he was doing his Noble Friend a positive injus-
tice. When he came into office the Kafir war was going
on ; vigorous measures were taken by his Noble Friend
to put an end to it, and by the able and judicious
management of Sir 11. Smith, he succeeded in a great
measure. But the Hon. Baronet objected to their wish
for an extension of territory. He was, generally speak-
ing, right in his condemnation of such a policy; but the
Honourable Baronet was the last man who ought to
have made such an objection, inasmuch as he was
at all times an advocate for an extension
of their colonial possessions. The Honourable Baronet
bad referred to the West Indies, and said that the policy
of this country had ruined those colonies, but he (Mr.
Hawes) would prove that the policy of this country had
not done so. He believed that the changes which had
taken place in the policy of this country were changes
which had been called for by unavoidable circumstances,
and by public opinion, and that no Government could
have retarded them; but, in the operation of free-trade
principles, he relied as the best source of relieving the
condition of the colonies. The Hon. Member then re-
ferred to papers which had been issued as to the impor-
tation of sugar and molasses from the West Indies, and
said when he included the East with the West Indies,
it would appear that the deficient supply of the West
Indies was made up by the increasing supply from the
East Indies. The Colonial-office, he would observe, had
nothing to do with the pressure of that policy which had
been alluded to; yet, he still hoped, as he had observed,
that free-trade policy would counterbalance any evil
effect. He would refer to some other of their colo-
nies, and he would ask, could any one doubt the pros-
perity which had attended New South Wales? The in-
crease in population, and in other respects, had been
enormous. In 1838 the population was 97,000, and in
1847 it had increased to 205,000. In 1838 the exports
amounted to 800,0001., in 1848 it had increased to
1,800,000/. The value of the wool exported in 1825
was 411,0001., and in 1847 it had increased to 22,000,000/.
—(Hear, hear)—and the increase in the landed cultiva-
tion was on a par with the general prosperity. In that
group of colonies, situated in that quarter of the world,
there was the greatest prosperity, and he looked for-
ward with great confidence to the advantages which
those colonies would derive from free institutions.—
(Hear, hear.) He bad not alluded to their North Ame-
rican colonies. They bad progressed, and were pro-
gressing, and they required no notice from him at pre-
sent. It would be impossible, he thought, that such a
commission as had been proposed by the Hon. Baronet
could make their inquiry within a reasonable length of
time. The expense which would necessarily be incurred
by it was an item which could not be overlooked. As
to the expenditure consequent on their colonies, he
would remind Hon. Members that it was the interest
of England to preserve peace to the highways of the
seas, and that an adequate force must for thdiaat
se pur]
-
pose be kept up.—Pi
H r. Humore signtihfiaedt hitis
wsanath..
Ile (Mr. Hawes) would maintain
ab-
solutely necessary that a ship of war sheuld beekpt at
tehv
oe
yr y
loc
oe
kl oendy
at
to
theymaintain
population
puell'afeticotneofnfithdeeinrcceOlonrideswthheeyn
could not but expect great expenditure. —(Hear.) He
would remark that the speech of the Hon. Baronet that
night had been in favour of their abandoning their co-
lonies, while heretofore his speeches were of an opposite
"deney and in favour of their retaining them. Ile
had endeavoured to show to the House that the working
of the Commission was impracticable. lie believed that
it would prove to be a delusion, and that it would raise
expectations in the colonies which could never be
realised. Under the proposed Commission every ques-
tien must be opened, the imperial policy included, And

under these circumstances he thought the motion should
be refused.—(Hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said he looted at the motion, not
so much as regarded the precise terms which the Ho •
nourable Baronet had adopted, but as to the general
scope which it was intended to have. The Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Hawes) had rested his objections in a
great measure upon what bad been done by the present
Colonial Secretary. Now he would admit that Lord
Grey had done more than any preceding Secretary to
benefit the colonies. It was not his intention to enter
into any criminating statements as to Lord Grey's con-
duct, for he was aware of the increasing difficulties of
the Colonial-office, and he was also aware of the
Noble Lord's ability, and of his honesty of purpose,
and also that in his selection of agents he had not been
guided solely by political considerations.—(Hear, hear.)
But he (Mr. Gladstone) thought the time was come when
they should endeavour to remedy defects in the colonial
system, and which, to some extent, was chargeable on
Lord Grey's administration. He thought, therefore,
without looking strictly to the terms of the Hon. Baro-
net's motion, that the time was come when some attempt
should be made to have such an inquiry as was suggested.
Although he knew the difficulty of applying extraordi-
nary powers to a Commission of the kind proposed, yet
upon the whole he felt bound to give the motion of the
Hon. Baronet his support.—(Hear.) He shought that
the powers of the Commission ought to be closely de-
fined, and its attention limited - to such duties as fairly
lay within its scope, and that Government might bene-
ficially lay down rules to guide the members of it in
their inquiry. He would remind the Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Hawes) that his objections to the Com-
missioners would equally apply to the Committee of
Council, which he had himself so strongly recommended.
He at once conceded that there were questions especially
as to what concerned the Imperial Government upon
which that Commission should not be permitted to enter.
The Noble Lord at the bead of the Government might
suppose that the Government was over the Parliament;
but be could assure the Noble Lord that Parliament was
over the Government.—(" Hear, hear," from Lord John
Russell.) It was, however, almost impossible to bring
those colonial questions requiring consideration before
Parliament in time to obtain an immediate redress of
them. Among other parts of the subject to which he
might refer, as exhibiting great mismanagement, was
Vancouver's Island, a question which was under discus-
sion a few evenings ago, and on which he then made
some observations. Norfolk Island was also in a state
that required the greatest consideration. Jamaica, in
like manner, required the serious attention of the Colo-
nial Government, and he wished that a body of clever
and prudent men were appointed to inquire into the
abuses in the government and affairs of that island.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—The Committee of Council.
Mr. GLADSTONE was willing to abide by the in-
quiry of the Committee of Council. The Right Hon.
Gentleman directed attention to the petition which had
that day been presented by the Hon. Baronet (Sir W.
Moiesworth) from the people of New Zealand, and said
he confessed that the statements in that petition had
given him very great pain. He thought it most desirable
that free institutions should be conferred on the people
of New Zealand; but they should, he maintained, be con-
ferred, not merely in justice to the people of New Zea-
land, but in that sense and spirit of justice which would
prove creditable to themselves and to the country. In
passing, he thought he was warranted in calling the
attention of the House to the state of the Canadas ; and
in reference to that question, and in relation to the
Bill brought in by her Majesty's Government to com-
pensate for "rebellion losses," those who were in op•
position to her Majesty's authority, he must again say
that he did not think the course taken by the Govern-
ment was a just or a well• considered one. Looking to the
military force kept up in their colonies, he thought that
every man who had given consideration to the subject
must agree with him that great expense was incurred in
the maintenance and application of that force, which a
wiser and better system of colonial government would
render unnecessary.—(Hear, hear.) Ho thought with
the Right Hon. Baronet who brought forward the me)•
tion, that a Commission of Inquiry into the state and
government of the colonies was necessary ; and in the
considerations that might come under the notice of such
a Commission, the interests and condition of the " abo-
rigines " should not be lost sight of, and particularly in
relation to their lands. With regard to the disposal of
the " wild " lands, he must say that injustice had been
done by the Act which had been passed on that subject.
The question was a most important one—one on which
he felt neither the Colonial Government nor the House
could deal in a proper manner—one, he might add, which
would, in his opinion, he far more wisely committed to
the hands and care of a body of men whose minds would
not be distracted by the consideration of any other sub-
ject. With reference to the question of transportation,
it was one beset with great difficulties; but it was one on
which the labours of a Commission might effect much
good ; and, connected with this part of the subject,
the question of labour should be taken into considera-
tion. To New South Wales transportation had, by an
Act of Parliament, been suddenly abandoned, and so in
like manner to New Zealand; but to New Zealand it was
almost in the same instant resumed, showing a system
of the greatest vacillation in the Colonial Government.
He felt, on all grounds, that such a Commission as
that moved for was necessary, and it was on a full
consideration of the whole subject, and having the
good and the greatness and security of the colonies at
heart, that he should support the motion of the Hon.
Baronet—a motion which he thought the Government
would not oppose.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said be was curious to hear the
grounds upon which the Right lion. Gentleman (Mrs
Gladstone) intended to support the motion of the Hon.
Baronet. The Hon. Baronet had declared that his mo-
tion was intendod as an attack upon the whole colonial
system, and he was sure that that was not a motion
which the Right Hon. Gentleman could support, for it
would be an attack upon the policy of the Right Hon.
Gentleman as much us it would be an assault upon that
pursued by the representative of any other Govern-
ment. He admitted that there might have been grave
mistakes in the policy pursued towards the colonies, but,
taken as a whole, he believed that policy had been wise
and judicious. He protested against the proposition
of the Honourable Member for Southwark. He thought
it was an unconstitutional thing to place on the
shoulders of a Commission duties which should be appli-
cable only to Ministers of the Crown, who should be
made responsible for the advice which they gave to the
Crown in respect to the colonies. He did not know what
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) meant by
the appointment of a Commission on the subject of the
colonies. Did he mean that the Commission should be
a standing Commission. He admitted that it might be
desirable to have Commissions for a particular purpose,
such as the case of the aborigines, and the like; but if
they were to have a standing Commission, to which all
matters connected with the colonies were to be referred,
he felt that great inconvenience would arise; for, amongst
other things, it would be impossible that they could re-
fuse to give to it executive powers; and to give such
privileges to a body of this kind, would be to assign to
it duties a hich would be perfectly incompatible with the
existence of a responsible Government. He contended
that it would be impossible to lay down any particular
rules to regulate the colonies, and therefore it would be
absurd to assign such duties to any Commission. This
being so, he must enter his protest against the present
motion; but, in doing so, he did not mean to say that
there was not many things in connexion with the
administration of the colonies that required alteration;
but be honestly believed that the appointment of the
proposed Commission would lead to disappointment, and
for this, amongst other reasons, he would oppose the
motion.
Mr. GLADSTONE, in explanation, said that he had
not contemplated a standing Committee, but one to in-
quire into the particular subjects-brought under the
consideration of the House. ' -
Mr. SCOTT contended that the whole history of the
colonies showed that a'great neglect had been adopted
towards them by the Government of this country, and
it was therefore desirable that the whole question should
be inquired into as proposed by the Hon. Member for
Southwark. With regard to the colony of the Cape of
Good Hope, had they adhered to the recommendations of
Sir Benjamin Durham the extension of their frontier in
South Africa would have been confined within more
narrow limits than was projected by the policy of the
present Government.
Mr. ADDERLEY said the Hon. Baronet who pro-
posed this motion disclaimed its being a vote of censure,
which appeared to be accepted by the Government, yet
the Right Honourable Gentleman described it as a
censure upon the present and all previous Governments.
The argument adduced against the motion, on the
ground that it was unconstitutional, would apply
with as much force to the appointment of every other
Commission, such as the Poor-law Commission.
The Government, in this case, left them no other
alternative than to vote for this Commission, for they
proposed no substitute for it. It was said that they
might have to wait for five years before they could have
any result from the Commission, but if they waited for
the interference of Parliament they would have to wait
much longer. The great anomaly of the colonial system
was, that the Government of the colonies was based upon
the principle of an oligarchy contrary to the democratic
principles of Englishmen. Unless they were convinced
that there was no ground for inquiry they had no alter-
native than to support the motion of the Hen. Baronet.
For the purpose of emigration it would be desirable to
come to a definition of what was to be considered a co-
lony, and also to define what was to he considered colo-
nization. Upon these points there were different opin-
ions.twhoe
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a municipal government was the best; but Gentlemen
opposite said there was no materials for such a system.
That used not to be the case. It was not the case in
the time of William and Mary; nor had any difficulty
arisen until convicts were transferred to the colonies.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the form in which this
motion was introduced was calculated to induce many to
vote for it. It proposed an inquiry with the view of
giving undue scope to individual enterprise in the colo-
nies. In this view it was skilfully framed, but when in
the course of the Hon. Baronet's speech he sought for
the object he was to attain it was not to be discovered.
Commissions were appointed upon extraordinary occa-
sions; it might be nominated to inquire into a particular
subject to ascertain the nature of an existing evil with a
view to its remedy, but to appoint a Commission to in-
quire into a subject so comprehensive and vast as the
management of the affairs of the colonies of this country,
he could not think that any Commission was competent
to undertake such an inquiry. The Right Honourable
Gentleman the Member for Oxford was asked if it was
to be a standing Commission, which was altogether
repudiated; but for his part he could not see the pro-
spect of the youngest Member in that House lining
to see the end of it. If they agreed to this motion, it
would be a censure upon the colonial policy of this couu-
s try, rimed fax the lot throo-fourthz of a coaturh

which had been attended with such glorious results. He
was surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Mew •
ber for the University of Oxford, who had such experi-
ence of public affairs, should be such an optimist as to
believe that five members of a Commission, selected from
the different parties in that House, should be infallible
upon colonial affairs. The great cause of complaint in
the West Indies was that the removal of protection was
the cause of their depression; and he could not think by
what means the Protectionist Members of the Commis-
sion would be induced to agree upon that point with the
other Members. Let the House only take two or three
instances of the prosperity of their colonies of late
years. He found that in 1824 the population of
Lower Canada was 423,000, while in 1848 it was
766,000; the population of Upper Canada in 1824 was
121,000, while in 1848 it was 723,000; so that the popu-
lation, which was 570,000 in 1824, was now a million
and a half. Was that a proof of misgovernment, or the
slow growth of a colony, that the population bad so in-
creased ? Then let them take one of the Australian co•
lonics, New South Wales for example, including Port
Philip. In 1837 the population wits 9,000, in 1846 it
rose to 126,000, and by the last returns made the im-
ports, which in 1837 were 1,300,000, in 1846 rose to
1,600,000, while the exports, which in 1837 were 760,000,
amounted in 1846 to 1,481,000. These were proofs at
least from two of their colonies, where an increase of po-
pulation and wealth had taken place which was without
a parallel. Ho (Lord John Russell) should therefore
say that these facts were some presumption of the excel-
lence of the system they now proposed to condemn.
The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last said they were hos-
tile to the liberties of their colonies. But it was no such
thing. The North American Canadian colonies had free
institutions; New Brunswick and Nova Scotia the same
free institutions they always had ; and with respect to the
latter, the Government were found fault with the other
day for giving them too much liberty. Besides, the greater
aumber of their colonies had their own liberties already,
and certainly whatever the Commission should say as
to colonial authority and colonial submission he should
not be disposed to give any authority to it whatever.
In his mind such an interference in laying down by
Act of Parliament fixed rules, the interpretation of
that Act would excite them tenfold, and lead to many
endless disputes. Then as to the extension of free in-
stitutions to certain colonies, it was held so far back as
the time of Charles the Second, that colonies should
have a Council and House of Assembly ; but if in Aus-
tralia it was now thought better to have but one House,
be would rather give them what pleased themselves
than run any risk of exciting discontent by insisting on a
favourite theory. His belief was that all these ques-
tions were to be decided by having fixed principles, and
by not having an infallible rule as to the reason in which
they :should be applied. Rousseau had declared the
science of politics to be one of circumstances and modi-
fication, to be decided by the statesmen according to cir-
cumstances, and not to theory, and on this ground the
Commission, in his (Lord John Russell's) mind, would
utterly fail. The Right lion. Gentleman the Member
for Oxford adverted in his speech to the fact that a co-
lony was one time intended by Lord Stanley and by
himself ,(Lord John Russell) to be planted in the
northern part of Van Diemen's Land, but abandoned by
Lord Grey, and observed that if the Commission ex-
isted such would not occur. His Noble Friend con-
sulted him, and he agreed with him that such a colony
was not advisable ; but if a Commission existed,
the Secretary of State should be Obliged to defer to
their opinion, and that opinion given, too, by per-
sons wholly irresponsible, either to Parliament or the
Government. Had it been proposed to have a Commis-
sion to inquire into the sale of waste lands in Australia,
to inquire whether the Colonial and Emigration Boards
could be extended, they might have been of great use in
affording the Government and the House a great deal
of information; but as regarded their colonial policy,
the constitution of the country was, that it should be in
the hands of responsible Ministers, under the control of
Parliament. Unless they had Ministers agreeing with
Parliament, everything would go into confusion. Then,
as to the change of colonial policy, it ought to be recol-
lected that it was more so in foreign policy; and in that
respect the Emperor of Russia had a great advantage
over them, for he had one Foreign Minister from 1825
to 1839, who carried out the same policy. But the sys-
tem in this country was the result of free institutions,
which they could not get rid of without sacrificing it to
despotism. He thought, then, the best they could do
was, that having departed from their ancient colonial
policy, they should give them greater powers to govern
themselves—to endeavour to introduce local free Go-
vernments as far as possible—to rest on that principle
only, and trust to its future operation for the prosperity
of the colony. By doing that they would be acting on
the ancient maxims of their colonial policy followed by
their ancestors, and which made that country and its de-
pendencies the freest on the earth.
Sir. W. MOLESWORTH explained. He denied that
his motion would unsettle either the Act which eman-
cipated the negroes, or that which gave free trade to
this country. His intention, if his motion were acceded
to, was an inquiry only into their system of Colonial
Government, the best form of free institutions for those
which were fit for them, and what system of Govern-
ment should be adopted for those not so fit. To these
were added the system of colonial expenditure, and
means of promoting emigration. When the Commis-
sioners made their reports, from time to time, it would
be for Parliament to decide on them. He should not
trouble the House at any further length; but he should
certainly press for a division.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority

The Militia Ballots Suspension Bill went through
Committee.
The Soap Duties Allowances Bill was read a third time
and passed.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at One o'clock.