The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-07 00:00:00

they were to press thus heavily, in suspend-
ing the Constitution. Oh, but," said the Go-
vernment, " though there is that calm, the Lord-Lieu-
tenant sees revolution in the distance, and you must arm
him with powers to suppress it." He could not tell how
it was that the most industrious and hard-working
people oa the face of the earth were in such a state.
He saw !lon. Gentlemen jeering and muttering at him,
but he did not care one farthing for that. A party in
the Hou,e had succeeded in carrying free trade; but free
trade was a great grievance, and the cause of great dis-
tress to Ireland.
Sir J. GRAHAM—No, no.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR—The Right Hoe. Baronet said
"No, no."
Sir J. GRAHAM—I differ in opinion with you.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR—Yes, the Right Hon. Baronet
we.; the sentinel left there now by his commander in-
chief; but he maintained free trade was at present in-
jurious to Ireland, though he would not deny it might
be ultimately beneficial. To-morrow the House would
be called upon for a grant to Ireland ; but the
country wanted no grant if she got but justice. Every
difficulty of which she had to complain he saddled upon
the landlords, who were fed on patronage, and had
left their estates to lie in idlF nem For these difficulties
he had proposed remedies, but none of them had been
mach attended to. In 1834 he proposed a poor-law—
land premiums, labour premiums, and landlord premiums,
but none of them had been approved of. He now
warned the House that they must compel the Irish land-
lords to give leases in perpetuity. If they did so there
would be no more emigration and no more complaint.,
such as they had heard last night, of emigrants carrying
away 10,000,000/. sterling out of the country instead of
spending it at home. To show what perpetuity would
do, he would tell them what had happened on an estate
of Sir Nicholas Colthurst, in Kerry, over which Mr.
Colthurst was agent. In 1808 he could not get more
than 600/. per annum for it. In succeeding years he had
let it on chance for 800/., but found it would not pay.
He then said, "If you divide it, I will get you 1,0001. a
year for it." He got 1,315/4 and in another instance where
Sir Nicholas had given leases in perpetuity the poor-rates
amounted to 2jd. in the pound, while the rates on pro-
perties occupied under a different tenure amounted to 6d. in
the pound. It was hopeless for Ireland to look to the
present Government, which was powerful when here but
powerless when there. His only expectation was, that
he should see them in the position for which nature de-
signed them ; namely, on the Opposition side of the
House.—(A laugh.) Then would men be found to stand
up for economy, and to drive a Minister from office if he
proposed an Arms Bill for Ireland ; then would the
Noble Lord call on the Government to do its duty to the
commercial and agricultural interests of Ireland and
declare himself prepared to resist a Coercion Bill. In
passing he would remark, that the Noble Lord who pro-
posed the Address spoke of the Chartist movement as
having been put down in England. It had not been put
down yet. With respect to the present Bill, he wished
to God he bad power to arrest its progress by means of
the rules of the House. Was Ireland to be ruled by
Government anticipations ? The maxims might be ap-
plied to Ministers, that those who must take care of
themselves had no time to take care of others. As he
had opposed the last Coercion Bill he should oppose this;
and with respect to the State trials and the attempt to
put down agitation, he ventured to say the time might
come when that which they now called criminality they
would be obliged to extol as patriotism.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE perceived that the motto of the
Treasury bench was Sic volo, sic jubeo. All -that 'Mi-
nisters wanted was the blind and unreasoning support of
a majority, and he feared they did not reckon without
their host. The only ground on which the Right Hon.
Baronet the Home Secretary had rested the argument
in favour of the Bill was a letter from a gentleman
named M‘Ghee, which was written to show why and
how his party had failed to revolutionise Ireland. Mr.
M•Ghee said the people were flocking to their standard,
but a certain party interfered, and from day to day the
people fell off. Who constituted that party? The Ro-
man Catholic clergy. What remedial measures did the
Government propose for Ireland ? An alteration of
the poor-law ; an extension of the franchise. Those
measures came too late. Ministers said nothing
on the subject of the tenure. It required a long and
severe apprenticeship before one could know Ireland.
When an Irishman stood up in Parliament it was said
he did so to complain, and not to propose remedies. Re-
presenting, perhaps, the largest constituency in Ire-
land, he (Mr. Roche) did not shrink from that respon-
sibility. Let them, as men of business, view the
Irish question as their own. He would begin at
the head—with their mock court—their Lord-Lieu-
tenancy. Of what advantage was that to Ireland?—
(Hear, hear.) No man, sent over trammelled as Lord
Clarendon was, could act as a statesman. Then there
was the Church of Ireland. There was a source of Irish
revenue to which, if they were practicable and just men,
they might apply. Then there was the grand jury land-
tax, amounting to a million and a quarter of money,
which was without control expended by those who might
be called the English garrison. Then there were 50,000
troops stationed in Ireland; there was maladministration
in almost every public office, there was ample room for
retrenchment; and it was indeed hard that under such
circumstances a fund could not be obtained for develop.
ing the resources of the country. If coercion could pro-
duce beneficial results Ireland ought to be one of the
most prosperous countries in the world. It appeared
probable that Ireland would continue to be governed in
the same manner until men should arise who had the
hearts of Christians and the heads of statesmen.
Mr. FAGAN regretted that Ministers had not evinced

s more earnest d4osition to redeem
_the professions

which they made with regard to Ireland when they sat
on the Opposition benches. Some excuse for their short-
comings might, however, be found i❑ the circumstances
in which they had been placed since they entered office,
and he could never forget the services which some of the
leading men of that party had rendered to his country.
heretofore, when any Government had asked for a mea-
sure such as that BOW demanded, a case of necessity or
A semblance of ono had always been made out; but on
the present occasion not a single argument had been ad-
duced in support of the proposition. It certainly was
the weakest ease ever put forward to justify the suspen-
sion of the liberties of a people. For his part, he denied
that there existed any general disposition to insurrec-
tion in Ireland. Would Ministers dare to attempt
to put down the agitators of Manchester in the
same manner?—(flear, hear.) The Hon. Member then
touched upon the manner in which the recent State pro-
secutions in Ireland had been conducted, and expressed
his disapprobation of it. In conclusion, he declared that,
althongh he admired the talents and good; disposition of
Lord Clarendon, he could not consent to place Ireland at
his mercy.

Mr. GftATTAN said that the suspension of the Habeas
Corpus Act was a hazardous experiment; it had often
been tried, and as often failed. There was nothing in
the character of the people of Ireland to disqualify them
for the enjoyment of liberty,—
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings."

Ia former cases how did the people of England act?
Did they ever suspend the liberties of their c, untry upon
such a short notice, or without proof ? Did not Mr.
Pitt and Lord Castlereagh come down to the House with
large bags filled with letters and sworn informations be.
fore the Habeas Corpus Act was suspended ? All
that was wanting here. He contended that
this measure was unnecessary. He maintained
(hat ' Ireland did not deserve this measure.
The House was in laughter on the previous evening
when they spoke of insurrection in Ireland. There
had been none. It existed only in the minds of inte-
rested individuals, who could get up an insurrection at
any time. If they would pay him for it, he would get
up one in forty-eight hours.—(Laughter.) He remem-
bered hearing when he was a boy the cry of permanent
pay—that was the cry of the Orangemen—and it meant
that there was to be a Catholic rebellion got up, so that
the corps would be increased and there should be per-
manent pay. He suspec ed something of the same kind
at this trine. Let them not manufacture spies. Let
Ireland be governed by greater talent, and not by a
second-class sot of Ministers dressed up from some old
clothes shop.—(Laughter.) The Lord-Lieutenant said
that the people of Ireland showed nothing of a repentant
spirit. They had done nothing to repent of ; for could
it be said that the people of Ireland, the gentry, the
Roman Catholic clergy, had joined in the insurrection,
as it was called? Why, there was no such insurrection,

no overt act was proved. O'Brien distinctly denied al

participation with the party who were for violent
proceedings. He had heard O'Brien charged in
that House with having gone to France to
solicit French aid, but M. Limartiae bad indig-
nantly denied it. Did the Lord• Lieutenant mean to
,ay that agitation was to cease, that there was to he no
discussion of measures which they considered wrong and
wished by legal and constitutional means to repeal ?
All history proved that that should not be done, and he
believed that if it were the disease would be aggravated.
They might put down repeal, but they would set up se-
paration. 'What charm was there to Ireland in the con •
nexion with this country ? Why should he as an Irish-
:ll,ln like the English better than the French ? The
French were as wall mannered—as agreeable.—(An
Hon Member—" And as good looking.") He did not
think so.-(A laugh.) He liked the honest face of an
Englishman batter than those mustachioed fellows, beg-
ging the Hon. Gentleman's pardon.—(The Hon. Mem-
ber as he said this slightly bowed to Mr. Muntz, who
was sitting near him, and a hearty laugh rang through
the house.) It happened that on that day there
was to be tried in Ireland an individual who had been
ifizeeoelwdegweawsadopsal
awsnoesibiestelvlitegsehnnehadate w
hml
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mn t
hean, The w
butttor nwe
t-hGheinee al
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could not
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if the Attorney-General were there ho could make the
b!o)d fly from his heart, and the light from his counte-
nance.—(Laughter.) Of 177 jurors impaaelled to try
one of the political prisoners (Mr. Duffy, as we under-
stood), 135 were Protestants and only 42 Catholics, four
of whom were tradesmen in the employ of the Lord-
Lieutenant and public contractors. How could Irish-
men be in love with law so administered? He entreated
English Members to stay away from the division to-
night, and save at the same time the liberties of Ireland
and their own reputation. He declared that he would
rather that martial law should be proclaimed in Ireland
than that Parliament should go on in this way, suspend-
ing the constitutional privileges of his coumndtaredyseemrietbhner,
tt felt I thathh
ee cwoeurled t
emove l a thosete
what who
h nowo
h seenheard himil ttheo
o theie
hwoerehadto
course
portion
or
fee recent fh i
hc he
ruined, and the tenants flying—(
ruinous devastation, the houses destrohel,rht)ehleleadirndl(nmedwa
they were going to add a climax to t s_ur :logs
and degradation of his unhappy country.
Englishmen
knew how to die as well as Englishmen;
knew how to die on the field of glory, but let not Irish-
men die in a ditch with dishonour.—(Cheers.)
Mr. C. ANSTEY could not concur either in the mo-