The Sun.
London, England, 1831-02-23 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF. LORDS, FEBlniar 22.
Lord KING presented several petitions from places in
Somersetshire against tithes ;, from the Rotunda, at
Blackfriars-bridge, and from different parts in Ireland,
to the same effect.
The Duke of GLOUCESTER presented a petition
from the corporation of Gloucester, praying for Parlia-
mentary Reform.
The Duke of WELLINGTON presented a petition
from Edinburgh, praying for the institution of some et,
quiry into the condition of slaves.
Lord FARNHAM presented petitions from parishes in
Wexford, praying for a repeal of the Union ; also one
from St. Lloyd's Guild praying for triennial Parliament.,
to he held in Dublin.
The Earl of DARNLEY presented a petition from
Hyde praying for a repeal of the duty on sea-borne
coal. The Noble Earl trusted his Majesty's Minister,
would persevere in their intention of removing this tax.
Tie Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a petition
from a place in Ireland, paying for an attestation in th,
elective franchise, and for Parliamentary Reform. Th.
Noble Marquis trusted his Majesty's Ministers
would pause in the measures now about to be brought
forward with reference to Reform, as he could
not help thinking that they would not bu attended with
those good effects which were anticipated. He also wished
to know whether he was to understand, from the statement
of the Nob'e Lord on the Woolsack, some time since, that
the measure which was to be brought forward was one
which had received his Majesty's sanction. He wished to
know this, in consequence of its being to be brought
forward by a Noble Lord not of the Cabinet.
The LORD CHANCELLOR certainly was not pre-
pared to discuss Parliamentary Reform just now, but
Reform in Chancery. With respect, however, to the for-
mer, he must say that it was a plan in which not only
his Majesty, but all his Majesty's Ministers, fully con-
curred, and he trusted it would be found to be one that
would not only inert with the concurrence of Parliament,
hot of the whole country.

The Marqui4 of LONDONDERRY felt grateful to the
IS.,ble Lord fur Lie explanation.

ABUSES IN CHANCERY.

Lord WYNFORD presented a petition from an indi-
Vdual of the namer of Joseph Harrington, praying for a
Reform in the abuses of the Court of Chancery. Among
other statements in the petition, it was alleged that the
attorney's bill for the conduct of the proceedings in a
Chancery suit in which the petitioner was engaged, was
7,0001.
REFORM IN THE COURT OF CHANCERY.

The LORD CHANCELLOR then left the Woolsack,
and addressed their Lordships to the following effect :
In rising, my Lords, to address your Lordships on a sub-
ject of the highest importance, I cannot dissemble to my-
aelf—l cannot dissemble to your Lordships, that I sin
placing myself in a situation of no small peril, of no int-
censiderable anxiety ; and that I am laying myself open
to numerous severe imputations. It may be said that the
evils of the existing system have existed for so many years,
and that it is so gigantic in its character, that any attempt
on my part to expose their extent, or to propose for them
any remedy, argues no inconsiderable presumption on my
part. I answer that my duty, my double duty, as a Alm-
ber of the Legislature, and as the Judge presiding over
the Court in which the evils alluded to arise, prevent me
from justly incurring this charge of presumption; I shall
also he told that wiser, and greater men, men of much
more experience than myself, have sat in that Court dur-
ing Stile whole of their lives, without ever attempting,
esen in the maturity of their experience and at the
close of their career, what I am attempting at the very
e, mmencetrent of mine. illy answer is this :—Those
mat and !earned men, whose integrity was unspotted as
their capacity IA as undoubted, have entered the Court of
Chancery with the same desire that I entertain to effect a
remedy of the evils which exist there. But such is the na-
ture of those evils, so great is their tendency to push up
their shoots, to throw forth their ramifications, and even to
let their roots spread so 1.9 to enclose anti entangle all
neighbouring objects, that hardly has any Judge made the
attempt to remedy them before he has felt encumbered and
overwhelmed in the effnrt. This, my Lords, is their ex-
cuse for having passed so much of their lives in the Court
without an endeavour. at Reform. But to me it would be no
excuse—it would offer no palliation, if, wise by their expe-
rience, warned by their example, I were not, in the very
beginning of my course, to attempt to do that from which I
feel that a continuance in it would incapacitate roe. I state
this, my Lords, at the outset, in order to meet the charge
which I know will he brought against me, that I, who
have held the Great Seal only a quarter of a year—
it happens, by chance, that being appointed on the
22(1 of November, I ant addressing your Lordships on the
:22d February—l, who have little or no experience, whose
knowledge of the practice of the Court must necessarily
be limited— I, a mere novice in the law of that Court,
nevertheless begin with attempting what others to the
very close of their career have not attempted—a change,
an innovation, and to sum up all in one expression, so
hateful, S 3 alien to long-established habits, so sore, so
agonizing to the experienced practitioner—in one hateful
word, " the head and front of ray offending,"—a Chancery
Reform. Reform, odious and reprobated in all places, is
especially odious anti especially reprobated there, where it
appears as if it were a monster, composed of two parts
an utterly irreconcilable and incongruous as Chancery Re-
farm. My answer to this charge is, that short as my ex-
perience has been in that Court, I almost already begin to
feel those trfficinhies and those incuinbrances which have
overpowered and mastered the good intentions of all my
illustrious predecessors. I am already, as it were, attached
to the soil. I am already in the course of seduction. I
feel that I am getting involved in the integuments and en-
tanglements which I have been describing as forming the
excuse for my predecessors. I, who came into the Court
pi nine, out prayers for Reform, am almost already incapa-
citateda
for am mining it, and if I remain there inactive a
little loneser, shall be wholly so.
" pesos finite, torpor gravis alligat artus
Mottle cinguntur tenor prwcordia libro
In frontion urines, in ramos brachia crescunt :
Yes mot) tam velox pigris ratlicibus liceret :
Ora cacumen obit : rernanet riitor onus in ilia."
__(hear, hear, hear.) I feel that I am on the point, if I
delay any longer, of becoming, in my flight from the day,
fixed and rooted in the soil ; and that I shall flourish only
like the laurel in the fable, a monument of her escape from
the embraces of the gad of light. These, my Lord,,, are
the considerations which induce me, while I may, to break
loose from the entanglements in which I shall otherwise
be involved. I now proceed to the subject. 'When I pro-
nounce the word Chancery, I fear, my Lords, that I shall
recall to many of your Lordships' minds images of expence,
of delay, of vexation ; I hope to none of more serious in-
jury. But, my Lords, the usages of Chancery are not all
evil. Bad as they are, they are, like other matters, not
quite so black as they are painted. In those evils which
do exist, however, it is well worth our attempting to find
one or two simple and safe remedies. I shall proceed, my
birds, shortly to state to your Lordships the course which
I mean to pursue in unfolding the existing evils, anti in re-
eau-unending what I consider to be the must efficient reme-
inedies fur them. To lead your Lordships through all the
traces of Chancery litigation' and practice, would not be
more tedious titan it would be treeless. I think I shall better
spend the short sprite of your Lordship' time—l hope it
will be tut a short space ; I know promises of that kind
are more frequently made than kept, especially with refer-
ence to legal matters, but I hope it will be a short space—l
say, my beds, I think I shall better spend the short space
of your Lerd-hiss' time which I am about to occupy, by
laying down the prin4iples on which 1 think all judicial
reforms onelit on proceed, and by then showiog the man-
ner in which those principles apply to the remedies
waielt I am about to propose, My Lords, the first of
these principles which I its,- down is this—that in all
eases where there is a great judicial machinery, where the
construction of a Count leaves it open to various abuses, it
is much Letter on begin by ref-mining that Court rather
that, by any charge in tints. laws or in that system of ju-
ti-prudence on which the rights and property of men de-
IlLanl- My Lords,. it is better fur obvious reasons. In
the first place it is safer; in ail changes the first and most
cardinal consideration. If you do not take that course—
if you substitute far the ills you have (the maxi:n is al-
most proverbial) a something which you are not perfectly
santain you see Ineforelenud will riot prodsce greater or even
eaval evils, you will not only do no immediate good, but
you ',soil do retell eventual injury. Now nothing can be
snore tenet than that a change in the construction of the
Court will he a much more lenient, and a much more easy
,eoar.ae. ; and a curse which, it it should be found not to
effect the comedy expected Irons it, it may be more easily
retraced, than the adoption of any new laws, altering that
s% stein by which the rights anti peoperti„ of the King's
anitriects are disposed of, anti the various grounds are pre-
ecrihenl on which those rightra and properties are held ;
in all respee's a task of the greatest difficulty, and one
which reqttircs the utmost care and deliberation. In order
to see how much eatier it is to proceed by alterations in the
censt lotion and the examination of the tribunals, than
is the principles of jurisprudence and the established
rights of property, one has only to consider that
every alternation in these principles, and in these rights,
always has, more or less, a retrospective effect, and the
consequences of an ex post facto law. An instance of
a!thetigh by no means the strongest instance thy

might he adduced, occurs in the case of the General Re-
gistry Bill, brought into the House of Commons by one
of the Commissioners for the Improvement of Legal Pro-
cedure, and now in progress through that House. How-
ever valuate!e the improvement proposed to be carried into
effect by that measure, it has a retrospective operation,
and the effect of an s.c post facto law, for it attaches a
forreiture to the want of registration, which did not apply
to it before. - This is not the strongest instance of the
kind ; but even of the objection to this extent, the plan
which I propose to follow is perfectly clear. Another
grand advantage of this mode of proceeding is, that it is
not only easy of being carried into operation, and ierolend
more efficacious, but also that it tends to eradicate the
evils and defects even of the principles of jurisprudence,
which govern our tribunals, one by one, gradually, and
progressively, and in a much safer manner than any other
in which this great good could be effected. Accordingly
you will find, that if the tribunals for the administration
of justice be placed on a vood footing, the principles of
jurisprudence, and the law itself, as applicable to person
and property, will be improved, and that in the best and
safest way, by means of improved experience and practice.
And I do not scruple to say, that except in the case of our
i very earliest statutes, the statute law has grown up by the
improvement in the structure of our tribunals and Courts
of Justice. How many of our best laws—how many of
our best remedies for wrong and securities against op-
pression, have been owing to trial by jury, and some other
admirable portions in the construction of our tribunals. Of
all means of improvement, therefore, a change for the better
in the structure and constitution of our tribunals is the
safest and the most efficacious. The next principle on which
I have proposed to myself to act is, that the judicial and
ministerial functions ought to be kept as separate and
distinct as possible. In the jurisdictions of some of our
Judges the judicial and Ministerial functions are too much
blended, and this I have attempted to do, in a Bill which
I propose to submit to your Lordships for that purpose.
A third principle, my Lords, is this—that, wherever it is
possible (and in most cases I think it is possible), viva
voce examination of witnesses should be substituted for
examination by written interrogative. This of itself, my
Lords, would, in my opinion, be a most invaluable im-
provement. I will, with your Lordships' permission,
briefly state some of the inconveniencies and evils attend-
ant on the opposite practices, and they may be illustrated
in this manner :—When a witness comes to be examined
in a Court of Law—in the Court of King's Bench, for
instance, where my Noble and Learned Friend has so long
presided with so much credit to himself, and advantage
to the country—lie is seen not only by the Counsel and
the parties, but also by the Judge and the Jury, and the
examination takes place in the presence of those who are
to decide, and who are most competent to judge of the
value of his testimony, as far as that depends on the man-
ner in which it is given, which is a most important cri-
terion in the means of estimating the weight of testimony.
This advantage, which is so ordinary at,d common in
courts of law, that it is generally thought worth while to
mention it, as an advantage of the very highest import-
ance ; and yet, from this advantage, some of our tribunals
are quite shut out. And then, when a person is ex-
amined on written interrogatories, they are put first,
second, and third, and so on, while no opportunity is
afforded, or offered, of framing a succeeding interrogatory
on the answer to a preceding; so that the examination is
conducted almost in the dark ; whereas, in a Court of
Common Law, where the witness is examined viva voce,
a second question is often founded on the answer to the
first; and a third, on the answer to the second; and a '
fourth, on the answer to the third, and so on ; so that the
examination is not conducted in the dark, but one ques-
tion arises out of another; and thus, with all the light
and information obtained from the examination in
chief, the cross-examination takes place ; and that, again,
is followed up by the re-examination. It is scarcely ne-
cessary to point out, further than by the bare statement of
the process, what an immense advantage this affords in
eliciting the truth, and putting the case on its best footing.
Mit from all this advantage the courts of equity are, in a
great measure, shut out. Not a word of this applies to
the Court of Chancery for instance. To be sure the plain-
tiff there has the advantage, if advantage it be, of the
evidence of the defendant on oath ; but the defendant ha.
not the advantage of the plaintiff's evidence on oath ; for
although the answer is upon oath, the bill is not, but is
merely prepared by Counsel, who states the best case he
can for his client. Sometimes the cause is ripe for bear-
ing on bill and answer ; but when the parties are at issue
in point of fact, then the issue is sent to be tried, but in a
different form from that which takes place in a court of
law. Now how is it tried? A Learned Counsel pre-
pares written interrogatories to be put to witnesses whom
be never sees, and these are filed in the usual manner, and
given out to the examiner, an officer of the Court, who
reads them to the witnesses, and takes down their answers.
The Counsel who drew the interrogatories bears none of
the answers—he has no opportunity of founding his se
coed interrogatory on the answer of the first; the third
on the answer of the second, tend so on. The officer reads
the formal questions, and takes down the formal an-
swers, and there the matter rests. All is done in the
dark, and then what becomes of the cross-examination ;
since, where the interrogatories and the examination
are for one of the parties, the other party knows no-
thing either of the questions or the answers ? He does
not know even the questions ; and how, then, can there be
anything like a real cross-examination ? And yet, some.
times, on these occasions, we have what, by a pleasant
figure of speech, is called cross• interrogatories, on the be-
half of parties who hear nothing of the examination in
chief, and who can know nothing of either questions or an-
swers. It is true that this method of cross-interrogation
is sell: m resorted to, since it is found by experience to
be too perilous, and generally quite as apt to serve the
cause of the adversary as to prop up the case of him who
has the rashness to u-e so indiscriminating and unmanage-
able a weapon. All then in these cases is done in the dark ;
the witnesses are examined by an officer of the Court, who
reads to them the interrogatories, and takes down the an-
swers, and returns the examinations to the Court, where
they are kept in retentis till publication passes as it is called,
and then, for the first thee, they are communicated to the
parties. And the period of publication too is sometimes en-
larged for a long time, arid much delay, vexation, and ex-
pence are thereby occasioned to the parties. Even if the
examinations were t iken down in the presence of Counsel
and attorneys, that would not be nearly so good as the
system at common law, where one Judge attends and hears
the whole of the evidence, and has himself the opportunity
of questioning the witnesses, and of assisting the Jury, who
have seen and head all, with observations on the evidence.
The 4th principle, and the last with which I shall trouble
your Lordships at present, relates to the remuneration of
the Judges and their subordinate officers, and they ought
to he well remunerated; for where the highly intellectual
labour is great, the remuneration ought to be correspond-
ingly ample. But what I say in point of principle is,
that, generally speaking, the remuneration ought to be by
salary, and not by fee-. When you remunerate a Judge
by fees, on the steps of procedure, you expose him to the
temptation of encouraging delay and expense in order to
increase his own emoluments, and thus, in theory at least,
if not in effect, set interest in opposition to his duty. To
be sure, the Judges in the higher Courts are not apt to be
swayed from the straight line of their duty whatever be
the temptation. They are selected for their learning and
their integrity, and are under the eye of a watchful
public and a jealous bar. But in principle it is always un-
wise to suppose any man above the reach of being tempted
,—(Hear, hear)—and neither they nor any other functiorr-
aries ought to be placed in circumstances in which there
must be a perpetual conflict between their interest and their
duty. And although we should be in fact perfectly secure
against malversation by the Judges, even under such cir-
cumstances, yet I thick that it would be a most objec-
tionable and unwise proceeding to place a Judge in a
situation which would have, the effect of lowering him
even in the eyes of the vulgar—to carry it no farther
—and to subject him to suspicion, who ought to be not
only pure in fact, but above all jealousy and suspicion.
These are the grounds on which I say that even the higher
Judges, who act under the eye of a watchful public and
jealous bar, and who are themselves men of learning and
integrity, the least likely to be swayed by interested and
selfish considerations—tbat even they ought not to be
placed in situations in which it is possible for any one to
suspect that they can have any other object than that of
the diligent, active, and impartial performance of their
respective duties, But if this be the principle which
in reference to the higher
J lt oughtl,,e s, toi
th
ise keptst
still
tinuoreviie4,ortant to act upon it in refe-
rence to all inferior officers of justice. They do not stand
upon such high and open ground—they are not so much
in the view of the public—they are not so immediately
responsible to Parliament—and they ought to be emphati-
cally excluded froita such situations, even if the Judges
were nut. There is one nicety in regard to this point
which might to be noticed. A Judge doing his duty
under the eye of the public will be induced to perform it
well and diligently, since upon that still depend his fame
and estimation with the public, and this although he
should be remunerated by a salary and not by fees. But
it is not always the same with inferior officers; and I am
told that some inconvenience has been felt from remune-
rating inferior officers by salaries instead of fees, for it is
said that the consequence has been that these officers are
disposed to earn their salaries as easily us may he, and do
not perform their duties so actively as if their remunera-

tion depended on fees. But I think the true distinction
may be made, and the line drawn somewhat in this di-
rection. Those officers may he made dependent on fees,
where the multiplication of the fees does not depend
on their own discretiou. Suppose, for instance, that
the emolument of the Judge or the officer depends upon a
fixed fee, such as 1/. for every cave decided, it is clear that
it is the interest of the Judge or the officer to try as many
causes as possible, and it is equally clear that this will not
be productive of any undue delay for the purpose of multi-
plying fees, because the profits of judge or officer will be
increased by dispatch. But suppose the officer is remu-
nerated by fees on the successive steps of a procedure, then
it becomes his interest to multiply the steps of any given
proceeding before the conclusion, because he thereby mul-
tiplies the fees which form his remuneration. But when
the fees are made to depend on the conclusion of the whole
business, then the officer has no power to increase their
amount except by dispatch. It is en these principles that
the Bills which I propose to submit to your Lordships are
founded, and the purport of which I will mention gene-
rally, without going into details at present ; and your
Lordships will, in the first place, have to consider whether
the principles are in themselves sound ; next, whether the
enactments are consistent with the principles; and lastly,
whether the details and minutiae of the measures are such
as can with reasonable facility he carried into operation
and effect. Having thus stated the principles and the
points to which I wish your Lordships' attention to be
directed, I proceed to state to your Lordships very gene-
rally the nature of the remedies which I mean to pro.
pose for certain inconveniences and evils which at pre-
sent exist, as connected with the Court of Chancery, or
the functions of the Lord Chancellor. There is one great
and remarkable branch of jurisdiction which has been at-
tached by the Crown to the Lord Chancellor—I mean the
jurisdiction in eases of lun icy. The care of lunatics is
part of the Royal prerogative, the exercise of which is
entrusted to the person holding the Great seal for the
time being. The Lord Chancellor, therefore, has the
care of persons who are found lunatic, upon an inqui_
sition taken under his own authority, and which he
alone has the power to order. Now very considerable
inconvenience arises from the state of this jurisdiction
as it at present exists. Whether we regard the very
delicate nature of the trust which is to be executed
with reference to the lunatics themselves, end the feelings
of their relatives, of the amount of the property which, in
consequence of this authority, is subject to the controul
of the Keeper of the Great Seal, the jurisdiction is one of
the very highest importance. The number of lunatics at
present under the care of the Lord Chancellor is 400, all
found lunatic by a Commission appointed by him to in-
quire and report on the subject ; and the amount of the
property distributed among those lunatics, for whose be-
hoof the whole of the annual value of their property is not
distributed, is 50,0001. a year ; and that comprises only
those cases in which no more than a part of the property
of the lunatics is allowed for their maintenance, exclud-
ing those for whom the whole of the annual produce is
allowed, and that amounts to about 110,0001. more. So
that the sum administered by the Lord Chancellor, in the
care and fur the support of lunatics, amounts to about
160,0001. per annum. The whole amount of the for-
tunes of lunatics, subject to the controul of the person
holding the Great Seal, is no less than from six to eight
millions sterling—probably more nearly eight millions.
This is a most anxious and fearful jurisdiction, and there-
fore it is that the Constitution has placed it in the hands
of the Crown, who from very early times has been in the
habit of entrusting it to an officer who is at the head of
the law, and high in his Majesty's Councils, and who is
particularly responsible to Parliament for the faithful dis-
charge of those functions which the Crown has appointed
him to administer. The defects which, in my opinion, at
present exist in this jurisdiction, and to which I wish now
to call your Lordships' attention, are two—first, a defect
in the mode of finding a person a lunatic; and secondly, a
defect in the mode in which the person of the lunatic
is taken care of. First, then, as to the construction
or constitution of the tribunal by which a person is
found to be a lunatic. In my opinion that tribunal
is not felicitously constituted. I do not mean to cast
any imputation on those gentlemen who were usually
appointed Commissioners for holding these inquisitions--
God forbid that I should. But the novel mode of pro-
ceeding is to appoint, as Commissioners, three Chancery
lawyers, who perhaps never before had occasion to examine
a witness, and these gentlemen are called upon to decide tin
the effect of the evidence in cases so delicate that it would
be an arduous duty for the ablest and most experienced.
Judges—and these Commissioners are paid by fees too,
where, on my principle, none ought to be allowed. It is
difficult, on any authority that can be found, to send the
Commission to less than three. I am not aware of a ju-
dicial decision, nor of any statute on the subject, for all
the authorities hold that the original regulation of time 17th
of Edward the Second is not a statute but a pi ivate regu-
lation. A friend of mine—Mr. Illingworth—consented
to make a search, and in this be proceeded in a very work-
manlike manner, and he was not able to find any instance
except one, in which the Commission had been directed to
less than three. Although the escheators in former times
were Commissioners, or had.the power of appointing Com-
missioners, no instance had been found in which there
had been less than three of them, except in a single in-
stance, in which two persons formed the Commission.
Now, as by a late regulation an addition was made to the
number of Judges, I think we ought to avail ourselves of
that circumstance, in order to form an improved tribunal
for holding inquisitions in cases of allegsd lunacy. I pro-
pose, then, that in cases of contested lunacy—such as the
case of the Earl of Portsmouth, the case of Mr. Davis,
and that of Mr. Brand—the person holding the Great
Seal should be empowered to call upon one of the
Judges to preside at the holding of theinquisi-
tions, in order that they may be tried with all
the solemnities of the most important issues, and
with all the advantages of great legal learning, and
much judicial experience. This I take to be a
very great improvement, and one which cannot be
too soon carried into execution. I remember that
Sir Chides Wetherell and myself attended in the case of
Davis, at a ceffee-house, for eight days together, when
the poor man was brought up every day, and placed in a
room where a great mob assembled, under circumstances
which were calculated to make him less sane than before,
and all this at an enormous expence. And, as to the ease
of the Earl of Portsmouth, it brought a scandal on the
proceedings of the Court. The second defect, as I have
already said, is the want of sufficient care of the person
of the lunatics. These are, in number, four hundred
persons, of rather considerable property. Your Lord-
ships know that in these cases there is a committee of the
estate, and a committee of the person—the heir at law,
where there is real property, being committee of the
estate, as being the person who has the most interest to
take care of it, and the next of kin being the committee
of the person, as having the most interest to take care of
the lunatic, to whom a liberal allowance is made out of
the estate. Now, in these cases, the lunatic, in general,
is taken to the country, and is kept very private, and the
Lord Chancellor loses sight of him, and has no power to
act, except when put in motion. And yet it is very im-
portant that the Keeper of the Great Seal, or some other
proper authority, should at all times have the power to
ascertain whether the lunatic is placed with relations who
arc careful to watch every glimmering of returning reason
and facilitate the cure—whether he is under the care of a
person anxious to cherish every indication of recovery, and
to put an end to the trust. It is important that he should
have the power to take care that the lunatic should be in
proper custody, and should not be entrusted to the care of
persons more anxious to retard or prevent the recovery of
the patient than to promote it, when they know that by
the recovery they will lose their share of the 160,0001.,
which is distributed annually among the keepers of Chan-
cery lunatics. I have often asked myself whether, in this
respect, things are in the situation in which they ought to
be ; and the answer has been th it I am morally cer-
tain that this matter is not as I would wish it to be.
An instance came before us in the Court of Chancery no
farther back than last week, which affirds a remarkable
illustration of the point to which I am now calling your
Lordship's attention. A Rev. Clergyman of 6001. a
year, was one of the Chancery lunatics, and there was a
Committee of the person and a Committee of the estate.
It happened that these two combined, and a proposal was
laid before the Master fur allowing only 100/. out of the
61)01. for the purpose of transferring the lunatic from a
comfortable situation near Bristol to a pauper fanatic
asylum in the county of Lancaster. This circumstance
was brought to my notice, for the Master thought this
allowance remarkably em ill, and mentioned the matter to
me, and a stop was put to the project in this instance.
But it was a mere chance that the matter was brought
under my notice. I might never have heard of it, and
should not have heard of it, had it not been that the small-
ness of the proposed allowance excited the Master's sus-
picions, and induced him to cause inquiries to be made,
I propose, then, to constitute a board, whose business
will be to take care that time person as well as the pro-
perty of the lunatic are properly taken care of, and that
the members of the Board should be paid by a commission
of one-half per cent. out of the property of the lunatics ;
and so much of their fortunes cannot be better bestowed.
This plan appears to me to be one of peculiar utility and
wisdom, and almost the whole of it prepared and matured •
by my Noble Predecessor, who deserves the warmest gra-1
titude of the public for the steady course which, in spite;

of all opposition, he has pursued in bringing to ma-
turity this great and original improvement. I come
now, my Lords, to a still larger branch of my sub-
ject—l mean the Bankrupt Laws—in reference to which I
had occasion to present petitions to your Lordships from
the most influential persons in London, and another
great and commercial city. The Commissionere of
Bankrupt are seventy in number, and they are generally
young men of good connections and ability, considered as
men of only two or three years standing at the bar, and
men who, when they have acquired more experience, may
be very able lawyers. Nevertheless, if I were to say that
in nine out of ten cases they are the best Judges that
could be chosen, or if I were to say that they do not pay
too little attention to their duties as Commissioners, and
consider their offices only as steps towards business and
advancement in their profession ; or if I were to say that
men of very great age—one of them lately died at the ma-
ture age of 86—did not sit with young men of 21 ; or if
I were to say that they were always appointed as the best
Judges that could be found for the purpose ; or that the
Lord Chancellor always appointed them for their fitness,
and not because they were personal friends, or connections
of personal friends, then I should be guilty of most grossly
flattering the Commissioners, my predecessors, and myself.
I appointed Commissioners as they were usually appointed
before. I impute blame to nobody : it is the system, and it
is the system only that is to blame; and, therefore, it ought
to be as soon as possible destroyed. But, certainly, if I
were to say that I had appointed persons most proper for
the execution of the duties of the situation, or that my
predecessors had always done so, I repeat, that I should be
justly chargeable with the most overweening self-seeking
on my own account, and guilty of the grossest flattery to
my predecessors. The jurisdiction is one of the greatest
importance. The subject is of the greatest importance to
creditors, to assignees, to bankrupts, and to the COIITIDIS.•
sioners ; and it is of the highest importance that the mat-
ter should be placed under the superintendence of the most
competent Judges. The Commissioners had a most diffi-
cult duty to perform, both its the way of examination and
procedure—a duty which it seldom fell to the lot of a
Commissioner to undertake before his appointment to that
situation ; and they had a still further duty to perform,
which, to the same extent at least, did not often come
in the way of the most experienced Judges. They
had to wring the truths from those who were often
extremely well disposed to concealment and fraud ; and,
added to all this, they had the extraordinary power to
commit to prison bankrupts and witnesses, for not answer-
ing to their satisfaction—a power fortunately controulled,
however, by their liability to an action at law—a power,
however, which no other tribunals possessed except the
Insolvent Debtors' Courts—and one larger than is en-
trusted to those who have to administer the ordinary func-
tions of the law. Then as to the number who sat in one
Commission, and the mode of administering the duties of
the situation—there might be five of them at a sitting, al-
though three of them usually sit. Sometimes Counsel
came to plead before them, who were generally men of
much greater practice and experience than themselves, and
it may be supposed that the business is not conducted with
that dignity and efficiency whiish characterizes the pro.
ceedings before able and experienced Judges, who have
sufficient weight and authotity to keep Counsel in awe,
and check their vehemence and irregularities. There are
sonic Counsel whose principal practice is before the Com-
missioners. Mr. Serjeant Wilde has practised before
them, and so has my friend, Mr. Pollock, and Mr. Mon-
tagu, leading members of the profession. Such men go
to plead before young men of twenty-one, or old men of
eighty-six, and they really decide the cases, and not the
Commissioners. Then in case of an erroneous decision, or
whether the decisions lie erroneous or not, the question
comes before the Lord Chancellor, who has never seen the
persons examined ; and it is sufficient to say of the
system that one part is not worse than another. The
system is so had, that it certaiuly ought to be altered;
and then how is it to be altered? Will it be sufficient to
cut down the number from seventy to thirty-five ? It may
be a good excuse to say that it is impossible for the man
who holds the Great Seal to find seventy qualified persons.
Shall it be said that none shall be appointed Commis..
sioners, except such as have been of some standing and
practice at the bar ? And shall they be remunerated by
salaries instead of fees ? That, at least, would be some
improvement, as it would place them beyond suspicion in
that particular. And then shall it be made a
rule that no Commissioners shall practice before other.
Commissioners, for each of them, as the case stands,
may practice before thirteen lists, and in this mode
of practice they had an advantage? But, my Lords, the
plan which I intend to propose does not stop at this. I
say, my Lords, that no man is more cautious in the way
of Reform than the individual who stands before you. I
have been derided and taunted by heated reformists, both
in and out of Parliament, as a timid reformer. I am, my
Lords, a cautious reformer, anxious to tread upon sure and
safe grounds, and I glory in the charge ; for what they call
timidity I call wisdom. I prefer, my Lords, to sail with
the lead in my hand when steering among unseen and
unknown dangers, with breakers a-head and a rocky shore
under my lee, upon which I might, but for this caution, be
dashed to pieces. I love to proceed in a mariner of which
the safety is undeniable; so that I may early retrace my
steps, in case I should find it too perilous to go farther.—
But, at the same time, I am no friend to half measures.
What I propose is not a diminution of the number of
Commissioners, nor the adoption of any of the other
expedients which I have mentioned. I mean to pro-
pose that the system should be entirely abolished—that
the whole should be swept away by one short and simp'e
ooeration. But then it may be asked—what is to become
of the vested rights of the Commissioners? My Lords,
there are no vested rights here. We sometimes hear
of the feebleness of certain estates and interests ; but
of all estates and interests those of the Commissioners
of Bankrupts are the most feeble. The whole depends on
a letter sent from the Lord Chancellor's Secretary, inform.
ing them that they are to proceed upon such a Commis-
sion ; but I inay refuse to send any such letter, and may
confine myself to only one list, and then a Commissioner,
who found that he was never employed, might say, what
is the meaning of all this—is the bankrupt jurisdiction at
an end ; in short the Commissioner has no interest but
what depends on the person holding the Great Seal. A
great hardship will, however, be suffered by the gentlemen
who have hitherto filled the situation of Commissioners.
Many of them are settled in life, with the idea that they
are to retain their situation of Commissioners as long as
they please, and therefore, I propose to allow them an ade-
quate remuneration on a large and liberal propert:on s for
1 have always considered it very bad reasoning not to give
full compensation in cases of this kind, when the good of
the public requires it. The Comoussioners, I am bound
to say, have put forward no claim. They have not held the
slightest communication with me on the subject ; but how-
ever unpopular it may be, I do not think I can deprive
them of their situations without a fair and liberal compers-
cation. For popularity, in the ordinary sense of the word,
I care not a rush. 1 look forward to honest praise for the
conscientious discharge of the duty I owe to others and
myself, and I desire no other public favour than that which
I may fairly deserve. To the gentlemen whom I thus de-
prive of the emoluments of their situations, I think I
should give compensation, and thinking so, I propose it.
The public, however, will not suffer. That compensation
will be paid out of the funds at the disposal of the Court of
Chancery, and as the gentlemen lose the compensation by
being promoted in their profession, as many of them un-
doubtedly will be promoted in the course of eight or ten
years, the burden will be wholly removed. 1 repeat, I have
always considered it hard for the country to refuse com-
pensation in cases of this kind. It has a tendency to check
improvement by the difficulties it invariably throws in the
way of those who attempt it. It, in many cases, converts
a hive of drones into a nest of stinging hornets--(A laugh)--
and the consequence is, that it impedes the march of Refor-
mation. Parsimony in such cases is bad for the country
and bad for Reform, and if any one more than another
should counsel us to give compensation in such cases, it is
the Reformer himself, for no money is better spent, nor is
there any outlay which yields such a large and liberal return.
( Hear.) That lain not the only person who has held these
opinions with respect to the jurisdiction of the Bankrupt
Commissioners, I shall take leave to quote the opinion of
a great and venerable law authority, whom I do not at
present see in his }lace (Lord Eldon), but fur whose ac-
commodation, as well as for my own instruction and
guidance, I have postponed on several occasions my present
motion. In a report of the proceedings of the Court of
Chancery, I read, my Lords, the billowing words :—" The
Lord Chancellor, on taking his seat, expressed the strongest
indignation at the practice of the Commissioners of Bank-
rupts, and at the frauds which were every day practised,
and particularly in the country, under cover of the B ink-
eupt Laws." I read this from a report of the proceedings
of the Court ; but I think it necessary to premise, that
the want of checks in the management of the proof of
ilebts,be and. ,ct,ilnre,fiissjori is
choice of
suedassigroteuet by a
assignees, it frequently happens
that t
jobbingwho is chosen also as jobbing assignee, ani liecreditor,receivesoti;
of the estate a large fictitious debt, whi di he probably
hands over, at the first opportunity to the bankrupt him-
self. When, however, there are Judges appointed with a
power to commit for prevarication, and to inquire tho-
roughly into and sift out the whole of the bankrupt's state
of affairs, I have a confident hope that no such frauds can
be successfully attempted. Your Lordships should know
that the Comm iesioners are at present liable to action for

attempting to perform their duty with that severity which
justice requires. There have been two actions of this kind'l
I lately against the fourteenth- list, which I am bound to say
has been the
,only one which dared to perform its
duty. I was counsel fur the plaintiff in one of these
actions, and I received damages ; but I really must
confess, that although a counsel in the cause I re-
gretted recovering these damages, and thought them
unnecessarily severe. The consequence, however, has
that these damages proved a lesson to all the lists
of Commissioners ; and knowing that they are, by the de-
cision of the Court of King's Bench, liable to action for this
exertion of their authority, none of then) do venture
to hazard a commitment fel. the sake of forwarding public
justice. I now, my Lords, proceed to finish the extract
which these explanatory observations hays interrupted :
" The Lord Chancellor went on to say, that the abuses
which had crept into the administration of the Bankrupt
country
Laws were a disgrace to the administration of justice, and
that he thought it would be better to repeal all the statutes
on the subjects than to permit their continuance. No
workit se mercytem le C
wel
dl'ooabntet Commissions ipresent,sns'ieorne; matter
NsVl tol'lVtniol tefo
trade for estate.stnr possible the
In the
vain to
themselves, and the least benefit to the estate ; and the so-
licitors
sassignees gn eesto
appeared to form their calculations on the number
of Commissions which they could bring in to be worked
by the partnership. Unless, indeed, this system was at-
tacked in its strong hold, he was satisfied it would soon
become liable to some of the greatest abuses known to the
laws." These their Lordships would perceive were the
words of the late Lord Chancellor Eldon, uttered on the
very morning when he first entered his Court as Keeper of
the Great Seal ; lint it would be exceedingly difficult, in
any of the proceedings of his long and remarkable tenure
of office, to point out the instance of his following up the
principles which were there laid down. And why was this?
When his Lordship spoke he was but just installed in office;
be was new in the soil, and he waited to ascertain some-
thing more of it before he attempted his reforms ; but
he waited too long—he stayed till he became affected
by the element of the Court of Chancery, and lie found
the adhesiveness of the soil too strong for him—(A
I tugh)—to allow any after effort for fre slom to prove suc-
cessful. Much as I myself might have done had I deemed
a further and letter perception of the nature of its evils to
be put in competition with the risk which was to be in.
cursed in obtaining it. I, however, shook myself free
from it. I escaped at once from the trammels which it
might have thrown around me, and resorted to the re-
medies which appeared to me to be meet for the evils, be-
fore I became inoculated by the vice which I wished to ex-
tinguish.—(Hear, hear.)—The proposition I have to offer
to your Lordships is then briefly this :—I propose that
there be ten Judges on Commissions, if you please to call
them so, appointed in the stead of the seventy Commis-
sioners of Bankrupts. I could have wished to name a
smaller number, but after discussion on discussion—after
taking into consideration the amount on business which
they will have to transact, and looking at the degree of
ability and information which will be required to fill the
situation, and the time which they must devote to the
duties of the office, for we intend that they should sit in
vacation and out of vacation, in the long vacation as well
as the short one, and throughout all the terms—looking at
all these things, I have been compelled, most reluctantly
I confess, to prefer a number much greater than I origi-
nally intended. One by one, however, I have been de-
serted by all whom I have consulted on the subject.
Taking into consideration the nature of the work re-
quired, the qualifications necessary for the office, and
the time occupied in its duties, they have one by one
dropped off from me, with the assurance that ten
was the very lowest number with which I could hope to
effect my objects with respect to bankruptcy, and .1 was
left at last alone. At first I was for six Judges or seven,
but they maintain that ten will be absolutely the smallest
number I can name to perform the duties. This was, in
the opinion of all, the lowest number, and but few of
them I consulted were disposed to agree to any thing so
low. I was the more disappointed with respect to the
numbers, because I felt the difficulty of selecting so many
persons who were thoroughly competent to perform the
duties of the situation ; but when I see fourteen lists of
five Commissioners, three always sitting and relieving the
others, and yet without giving any satisfaction in the
despatch of business; and when I calculated the number
of cases to be heard, and the circumstances under which
they were to be heard, and when I looked forward to the
prospect of a diminution of the business of the Insolvent
Debtors' Court to such an extent, that we may hope to
have it gradually transferred to the new Judges, and the
three Judges of that Court entirely got rid of, I see that
ten is the least number of Judges I can venture to pro-
pose. I wish it to be understood, however, that the fuse-
tions of these Judges are to he divided into two parts, the
administrative and the judicial, and that they are to be
composed of three descriptions of persons. The first
Judge I propose to make the Chief over the whole admi-
nistration of the bankrupt laws of the country. In the
second class I propose to place three senior Judges, persons
chosen from the higher walks of the profession, and through
whom, in conjunction with the Chief, I propose to have
the whole of the contested points in bankruptcy ultimately
decided. And in the third class, I place six junior
Judges—men who are hereafter to rise to the higher
rank, not as a matter of course, but in proportion as they
may exhibit talent and learning to entitle theut to pro-
motion. To the whole of these Judges I would com-
mit the jurisdiction in, and the administration of, the
whole of the laws connected with bankruptcy. I now
proceed to show in what manner I propose to dispose
of the business now transacted before the fourteen Lists of
Commissioners. To a single Commission, a Judge taken
from the third, or Junior Class, I would give the power
of adjudication in all cases where there is no dispute re-
specting the choice of assignees, or the proof of debt, or
any of the ordinary business. When, however, a question
of that kind does arise, I give this Judge power to adjourn
the Court, for the purpose of calling to his aid two others
of the same rank with himself, or one of the Senior
Judges, and they are then to have power to examine evi-
dence on oath, and to take down that evidence or not, as
they think fit, in the ordinary manner in which it is
practised now in the Courts of Law. If, on this exami-
nation, the dispute cannot he settled, and the parties, both
of them I mean, agree to go to trial on an issue, they
may do so at once and without any delay, before one of
the Senior Judges, or the Chief Judge, assisted by a Jury,
in the sane manner as in the Courts of Common Law. If,
however, both the parties do not agree on an issue, but
only one of them, then I give them the power to go before
a Court composed of the Chief Judge and the three
Senior Judges, sitting as the Judges of the Court of
King's Bench do now in Banco, in order that they may
there, as in that Court, determine the question of law.
This appeal, however, I confine to the mere question of
law. In the event of one party only agreeing to as issue,
I do not allow the fact to be tried by less than three of
the Judges, with the assistance of a Jury, and subject to
all the ordinary rules and regulations, and motions for new
trials. With respect to the examination of witnesses, I
propose to give that power, in ordinary cases, to one of
the junior Judges ; but if difficulties arise in the course of
the examination, or if any obstacles or impediments are
raised by ti ,e witness himself, then I transfer the examina-
tion of three of the junior Judges, with full authority to
commit any person who prevaricates, or refuses to give his
evidence to the satisfaction of the examinants : an appeal
against that commitment lying to the Chief Judge, but
the Judges being in no instance liable to an action for da-
mages for their conduct towards the witness. One word
with respect to appeals to the Lord Chancellor. I pro-
pose at once to cut off all appeals, except on matters of
law. I conceive that if the truth in matters of law can-
not be got at by the exertions of three Judges in one case,
or of one in another, and with the assistance of a Jury
examining the evidence, and marking all the four viva
vote testimony—how, in the name of God can it be dim-
coverel by the Lord Chancellor, with written depositions
and interrogatories, and all the formula which accompany
appeals. If they consider the direction for the issue
wrong, they can apply to the higher Judge, as they do
now in Common Law in Westminster Hall. If they
are not satisfied with the verdict, they ,can move for
a new trial, and what then could the Lord Chancellor
do more than to order a new trial or refuse it,
and what, I ask, would be the defence for per-
mitting an appeal to the Chancellor, save the
desire to increase and to prolong their vexatious delays and
ruinous expenses, which it is the whole object of the ar-
rangements to prevent.--(Hear.) I reserve the appeals
on matters of law as well from the superior Courts in
Bankruptcy as from the inferior, but I answer for it we
shall not hear then of ninety-nine of every hundred of
these appeals in bankruptcy which now occupy the Vice-
Chancellor for two months in the year, and the Lord
Chancellor for snore than one, and of which the number
of arrears have been so much a subject of complaint. I
am convinced, indeed, that under the new, and I hope I
may say, improved system, the evils to which these ap-
peals have given rise, will be wholly eradicated. I would
how, with your Lordships' permission, say a few words
about the country Commissions. In conformity to the
principle of action I have already laid down and explained,
of acting at all times experimentally rather than attending
too much in obedience to theory, I propose to make but a
slight, although, I conceive, a very important change in
the constitution of country Commissions. All that I have
said of the delay, the embarrassment, and the direct prat-

tice in the proceedings under a metropolitan Commissde
fell infinitely short of the mere outline of the workings!
a country Commission. Those Commissions are, in true
turned into a mere source of patronage and emoluments,
the expense of the estate of the unfortunate bankrupt its
his creditors. The law requires that there should bet::
Commissioners, and that two of these should be Barr?
et
It is generally contrived, however, that the Commission
shell he composed of three solicitors and two barristers, be
they always take care to select barristers resident
the metropolis, who, they are sure, cansto`,
not attend, and the remaining three are left to act
out restraint, or merely employ themselves by ever
means in their power not to decide the question lorool'
before them, but to contrive by delays of every Lind-'f
tea,,
they are paid by time and duration of sittingss-Wine or
the profits which they always calculate on from the ena ,
to otetobie
meat of a Commission. It is not my intention
to them the principles of the Act I now propose fre,
metropolis, but at present 1 shall content myself by. e
• to tim
quiring that the Judges of Assize shall, front time
the
select and form a list of all such Barristers residing •_" to,
county as they may think competent for the purpose
Ile
gether with a few of the more respectable solicitor:, 'er
that the names of those persons be returned to the I°resi
of the Great Seal, in order that he may select front t e
three persons to be •
put on the Commission which the
cases of bankruptcy may from time to time require' but,
for my part, should prefer only one Commissioner; r,
leaving that open to consideration, I propose that to,Phesti
sons thus chosen and recommended the country ale,' at
be for the present left for decision. These cases 1,070 in
the present moment, on an average, not more than 7"•yely
number, which, from the prosperous and comparatiweo
healthy state of the country, is, I am happy to say' much
than we have seen it for years. Having said thus 'pow
with respect to the important point of bankruptcy, Idne of
proceed to that other branch of my subject, the in° or
taking evidence and the fees of the office, and those
causes of delay and expense in the administration of [the
tice in the Court of Chancery. I propose, then, that
the
Masters should no longer receive any advantage fl'a° tee
taking of fees. Originally the Masters were naii Ps3nd
by fees and partly by the keeping of the suitors'sub-e;
which was entrusted to their care. This moll too
were in the habit of letting out to interest for their: by,
profit ; but in the year 1720 the Masters, tempts and
visions of profit, speculated in the South See Stock,
proving unfortunate, like many others, six of them werreoess
dared to he defaulters, and immediately on this the 3's'ee-
were ordered to give security. [His Lordship thetioetb
tered into a history of the various measures adopted from
respect to the salaries and emoluments of the Masters, .
the Commission appointed by Lord Chancellor PrOrti'L et
ton, in 1740, down to the period when the Coelmitt')..--
1826 recommended that all fees should be abolishe';e:"„se
Bottomed on these recommendations, and in core-tee
with the desire of the country, I now propose 011 be
~,
whole of the fees of the Masters in Chancery shall
r
abolished, and that their clerks shall be paid a sun' ri",jieser
to exceed a maximum, but so collected end paid as
to give an interest in the multiplication of exp'nees jeal
delays to the suitor, and at the same time afford t te,
such a stimulus in the way of emolument to tbeflitse
fortnance of their duties, and to the advancement
staling
proceedings of the cause, as would keep them from f d by
asleep.—( Hear )—Looking at the emoluments enjoYe sod
the Masters, he found that in 1791 both the Ma‘t,e„rie ;
the Registrar received large additions to their saia'.iss'
wanhdiethlinchtethreeyalnlyostvhopuogshsetssaedtoll,toroaob/ly. ahayteidar,oonnie:aoalabv;o:se,
for a gentleman.—(A laugh.)—One of the MesteYer
very excellent friend of his, of whom he spoke with eici oe
spect, had above 4,700/. a year, and his clerk eni'le
ljed
income of 1,6001. a year; another of these clelksves
2,500/. a year, and one only 1,000/. ; but he'elid not ope
fee~ 1s
cool. it)yiremvoenr,yll.s,
worst
and,:a, l
ehdo %:reavteuri,tya mmoonnge)t!: oswe
h'ch
t be
though he might find some other phrase for, it could o'-seas
it
anepl
nature
suitorthei
uasret:orynhatoc,anwoftd:hp't‘2ooahiiresd,ei occasiong to
fautr:tythhahenntat itdfmlobstarpe: eteoe:ivfrk.h.l saioc
br and
ttkkwThonnal ar(otsith:: we'
bnnbapresicubbatbteoyhul whensiecase,nattrihrhPoerwh
the allurement, would tend to destroy all its"Pte°rrEaleivel,i°.-e'lls
effects. These gratuities have been denounced before.
They were exposed so long hack as the time of °`'ioto
Romilly, who, in moving for a Committee to ineuireefess
the subject, obtained the casting vote of one of the '
ters (who had never heard of the practice of taking of
tuities, and who was disposed to trust to the assertiontba
Mr. Perceval—that no such thingexisted), purely oore
private and solemn assurance of Sir Samuel, that the sl,
was beyond doubt. On the information of Sir Sateirist
that as much as fifty pounds was frequently receiv
asd
the shape of a gratuity, this Master made inquiries, bes
was assured in the most solemn manner that no su°ere*
yond five pounds had ever been taken, except on one -00
sion, when extraordinary despatch was requisite, and, out
he had ten pounds. Shortly afterwards the fact cara-eare
through the means of a dispute, that this very
made the denial had frequently received fifty pouro"'eote
on the examination of his hooks it appeared that hs! tbe
from this source were 1,500/. a year, in addition
seven or eight hundred derived from legitimate sourced in
From that moment, however, all gratuities ceartetbeee
this Master's office. It is, however, the duty of etars
on whom the power devolves, to take care that, r the
tires of this kind should cease in all. It ,1" rete"
bounden task of the superior net more to keep his
rare
tires free from all sinister interpretation, but to take b.
that his subordinates should be also free from rePre be
The task, I know, is a dangerous one, because I °lt re
involved in a whirlwind of hatred and self-interest• with
an irksome one, because lam compelled to meddle $
et.
the aff,irs of men, with many of whom I am on trria
friendship—it is a laborious one, because I cannot hart, e
a day, nor many days, nor even years, to bring lteoaes
full and satisfactory conclusion ; but it is the he)/ tor
duty of a man placed in my situation to begird bin'eo,seet
the task—to bring whatever qualities he may Pock
honestly and laboriously to the accomplishment of Ili' and
ject—to let no means escape him which can he f.'lliliereetalt
honourably applied to the removal of abuses—if he
with difficulties, to labour to surmount there, bu" t t
ilitl
events to let it he seen with whom rests the respou;eslal
of objection, on whom must fall the consequences ato
—to place, in fact, the saddle on the right herse' an °
show that lat I.ast have played my part in: the 'cror
eel
reformation. I throw myself, therefore, on roY en:
and on my country ; I call on them to support MelesilP
if I fail, I shall at all events look into my own boson'
satisfaction, and console myself with the reflectionl°th t
approving conscience. Therefore, as long as I sit ail
seat there shall be no gratuities—therefore there
no charges—therefore there shall be no shade or s
of turning—therefore it shall not be said, as of theobilt
risees of old, that the cup of justice is clean withoutioere
the inside is full of all mariner of uncleanness'
shall be no repose—no relaxation in my eff°,,r-v eh
folding of the hands to sleep. I shall use -eij
deavours, with the assistance of Parliament a-beset'
country, to put an end to these crying 3triplet,
and if I do not affect all the Reforms I coPteiO°
d
it shall not, at all events, be said of me that I r/
lt
make the attempt to reform them.—(Hear, esti° I
I have hitherto shown but the outside of this IsiterSet
business. I may be asked who pays it ? Why the 3 0,9
to be sure. Does he do it for nothing No, he„Py, ,t
for his client, and he tells him it is expedition W tb'j
shall come to that presently ; but here I would 's;;lcb
of si t.
•
against payments of this kind, for all purpose' see eheS
description, it is the duty of the Court to protect shissoollot
If the clerk can get rid of the business quicker', bee eel'l3it
possess a fair remuneration for doing so to all. It :ultsr'of
do it without sacrificing the interestof some otherb titer!),
is doubly objectionable ; and under any view, wit:1.11301
public justice or expediency, it is right that it so-eitier.,,,
abolished. But then there is another question eltsl,elo
with this matter. The clerk who receives this to vot
or expedition money, has another function attacheretisa,ed
office; on him falls the delicate and difficult oPebes Pt
taxing the very bill of costs of the attorney 04:1° eyed' in
him the money, of course on account of using e
ovi bt)
for his client.—(llear, hear.) Your Lordshir (flea •
to see the light thrown on those transactionsf-i'Citor'ete
The judicious clerk has received from the s°e,eceicoe
very worthy man, and one who, it will be
orrege, tee
knows how to invest his capital to adva t of to
SUM of 50/. of expedition money on acconn
come ire
interests of the client, end then, when it
Sion aer
the turn of the judicious man, he repays th;s
•gbeiirsvi'e
interest, to the worthy man, and passing :-othe- sech
some 100/. of his bill, which he might 00:11 be both
be disposed to tax with so much lenity. It mill
that
therefore, that the worthy and the judicious eO3 oci
thrive by this means in their separate callilif'renentttert
the worthy man's seeds produced a most e the
abundant harvest—(Hear ! arid a laugh)---i"a`b I
is seebeee
perhaps, because he did not pay as they for bowore
(Hear, hear.)—l now come to the client, 'gob
hitherto kept pretty much out of view, as‘.
object of the payments was kept out of his seine"' 00
the progress of the suit. Pay-day, bowevert'aet per:biog:
then I suspect the client is the only imPflr, these a o°`
the set. Ido not, Ise it recollected, say t'll3t theY
take place every day. Far from it—l believe ere ots
frequent ; for the class of solicitors are, gel' than t
ins, a more highly respectable class of men

ropolitan Commissiol
line of the workings
'missions are, in trutl
rage and emolument, I
'fortunate bankrupt as
,at there should be fie
'se should be Barrister
that the Commissioner
and two bares be
barristers dent i
sure, canro', or wi
ee are left to ad with
or themselves by ever,
the question brougb
ass of every kind--fo
--to increasi
of sittings
late on from the enjoy'
to
my intention exteM
I now propose for the
content myself by re.
hall, front time to time,
misters residing in the
at for the purpose, t°', "
pectable solicitors,31
returned M the Keeper
e may select from them
2ommission which the
2e to time require. 1Y
le Commissioner; bet'
I propose that toper-
I the country cases 011
These cases being at
, not more than 700 in
•ous and comparatively
am happy to say, lover
laving said thus inceh
of bankruptcy, Ifol.
subject, the moue •
office, and those other
administration of
Propose, then, that the
ay advantage from 0,
fu
sters were paid Po':
g of the suitors'
re. This money tbel
interest for their Oa
lasters, tempted 11
South Sea Stock, °-
Ts, six of then' weed&
'telY on this the 3lasters
His Lordship then ety
seasures adopted with
nts of the ma,ters from
Chancellor Northing'.
vhen the Committee "t
would be abolished:a'.
is, and in comPlial,
now. propose that t
in Chancery sb9ll.,b,ie
II be paid a sum rie'";
,cted and paid as Ora
tion of exp,nces a°,
ame time afford to
emolument to the Pre
ie advancement of tP"
seep them from falli4
' ino l d
uments enjoye
both the Ma-ter 89
Lions to their salariet;
a year °earl averge'
y handsome alio,
/ne of the Masters,
he spoke with sll re-
his clerk enjoyed 8:1
4
er these clerks)
1. ; but be:diel aottA
, among those fees, ogie
,ty money, which 9,.;
-age for, it could uot
that by which it els
ght for justice, sal
in to speak of it,
ry name of a brit
the Master. I wisb
and the notorietY °.
troy all its pernicioB'
denounced before.;,
s the time of Sir:,,t°
ornittee to inquire jay
i.
to of one of the
iractice of taking ftfroi
ust to the assertioom
xisted), purely on Po
Samuel, that the fit
'
nation of Sir Saquent y realititte.,,
frequently .01
madeand
• •
anquarte
inner that no sant
n, except on one oc
vas requisite, and tho
yards the fact caste °ha
at this very nroi end
ived fifty pounds,
appeared that his eti,
ar in addition to t'
legitimate soorcee.:
gratuities ee3.4Cl fre
'or, the duty of th°
take care that prar
tbe
in all. It 18
sore keep his tn°:
,
thus, but to take Or
free from reprosel';
o
one, because I Wlt ell,
ni self-interest.
vii"
)gilled to meddle ()
mom I am 011 trllos ,
ause I cannot hope
• to 9
ears, to bring it i
Lit it is the boun,
n to begird himself fo
ss
noe94
ilities he may a obi
mplishrnent of in' j
high can be fairly B'llo
of abuses—if he °eel!
t
count thee*, but
rests the responildbleoy
consequences (lf (1 ta
le right horse, 00 of
y Part in' the Ovriiri,
'efore, 60
to support nle, 411
5 nay own boson) esi3O
the reflection. ttot
as long as I sit ino t'
herefore there 81'',10$e
n o shale Cr 511$
fl°
said, as of the,bile
s clean without,;bere
n ucleanness. ',lto
in my effomy rtroy
I shall use d
tbo
Parliament 01:000 ;
these crying 1' late;
rn efors I cootell
of me that I 112/
hesl,oo
tside of this ge,itorod
it ? Why the ate i 1
sing ? No, he 9'
expedition inosePtot
ere I would sal..rt,
'll purposes of diet,
rt to protect the cb'o,l3
'ss quicker, 11'400
so to all. If be t`i,,r
of some other stilb ;01
any view•• , Whet ,ea
ght that it soW.eted
ter question con7o,
receives this Pr9,o bie
action attached
00 of
difficult opera" 1041
ttorney who 1'9908
at of using e9P,,e bee,
r Lordships n°7llear.)
ra wile tions. tor
'romt the solici
it will be Peec'e the
to Avant-40i the
on accoutit,,aoes.th
tf
2, when it
_'olo
repays thi,
passisg
might not., °I)1' e
sty. It 01" 0 hot'.
judicious 10.0 j thP,
ate calliog, ,9, at and
a most eICeLo
11(1 the
111;10---' • Fed'
they for hi' loge
e client, Much
_ Mtge
view, as Much odsoriog
it of his vieel .0j
however, coolers:0; of
ortant Pe ;hogs
inlr, a, these aot
say tn hey are •
_I believe 1401'
are, gene'. „' the at'
t of Men WI"

4e)" WhO represent the came situation in the Courts of
tt,4')o ; but what I wish to say is this, that the
eyP,ttability of the solicitor is the only security possessed
elieut for his abstinence from practices like those
tt.are always in his power. That fact
of its being
i
Power therefore, in my opinion quite sufficient
Lst'ht'f'Y all measeres for putting an end to the system;
although it may be proved, as indeed I believe
it," he proved, that such tricks are seldom resorted
to,
ti test be enough unless it be also proved, which it
te44,',t be, that it is not in the power of the solicitor to
tilask.,t° them. I come now to the separatii si of the
eti-ugtrative and judicial functions, and to the
a
tes titt utlotl of viva voce examinations in the Mas-
totil2fliee for the system of interrogatories, and
Nit stelae-
s!, means to be adopted for the improvement of
16t ctraneh of the Court of Equity. I think, then, that
Loa4Btars should henceforward sit in open Court, at such
spillsl°tits the evening as may be agreed on ; and I am of
titil,l that such arrangements can be made with respect
elliVensina with their attendance on your Lordships,..
0 4'lll
t 0, enable tots to carry that plan into effect with little
Teonvenience to us or to them. I propose, there-
ee'c that three of the Masters in Chancery should sit
their evening for the purpose of hearing exceptions to
the hewn reports, anti that portion of business which at
iiitirelent moment occupies so much of the time of the
Wt, Courts
toys "*, but which, from its very nature, can el-
te :e More fitly determined by the Masters themselves;
6"ri that arrangement is carried into effect, I am
Ifs:" that the number of appeals from decisions of the
1a -r, Will be reduced to the proportion of 99 to 100. If
l)lriglit in speculating on this result, and I believe I
,-at will come the question of reducing the Court of
i6p,tti,e,'''Y to its natural and ancient limits of two Courts,
ihe,4'`ch the business may be speedily and effectually dis-
hit, °I, without the assistance of the Vice-Chancellor,
feillYtiOther additional Judge; and then I hope will he
tine' the declaration of Sir John Leach arid Mr. Can-
kb': In the celebrated debate on the subject of the ap-
,olookßt of the Vice-Chancellor—that it hail Judges
Nag: t° go on without such an appointment. I hold
'4tek„,,."ertle°w to he possible, and I hope to make such
'nts in the course of the summer as will enable
lett'il)Ret rid of the greater part of the arrear before the
isitti Chancellor, while the Master of the Rolls has pre-
-4 Plan for the despatch of the arrear before the Vice-
\r,cellor. That second Judge--the Master of the Rolls
Qh not name to your Lordships without paying my
''hose of respect due to his exalted worth ; he is a Judge
'''itii-k'elight it is to decide, whose quickness keeps pace
los "'" learning, and who, in all that constitutes a great
'a' rqound lawyer, is equalled by no one, save. that.
etC°4ljt n'ao, one fhs predecessors in office (Sir
Ilatte,l'e' with whom he is, to his honour, to he compared.
"ith-''er great aed important alteration which I propose
'ateuireliPect to the Masters is, to release them from the
to ee
t,,'ty of reviewing bills of costs, and sending them at
,-",the office of the Six Clerks. I postpone, however,
orationstso:-P' on the details of this and some other pore
ls pl bseause they are as yet not fully f
and becaule although the nature and extent 0
Mined nd the system of taxing costs, have b!•en. fully
lieta---the arrangements to be substituted in lieu of
At, are not yet fully digested. The proposition for
of .
recourse to viva rove examinations instead
44terrogatories is, however, I am glad to say,
uW have and approved of.—(Hear, hear.)—l
ti;,o"
wished to give a Jury to assist the Masters,
jtd" on their decision should depend the issue to be
!riti,4B in other Courts, and like as in other cases of Jury
1111,.ti; bisut I find so many difficulties in my way, there is
• °Pposition, so many conflicting interests are to be
4is e-"ed, So many adverse claims to be settled, so many
i.lt:lll.ie reasons ar:e advance!! why that change should not
''fst e---reasons too plausible in appearance fir me not
tklt6 that they might conceal something which ought to
,:st4 hesitate, though they are, perhaps, not well
'4 I 4 ' and I could prove the error lurking below them
ti!y,,,,uld bolt the bran from the meal ; yet fearing that
maid
conceal something, and wishing not in making
Itrsp•
,',1% 'rut to subject myself to the charge of rashness, I
l'tsr",citOt• the present to stop here, being willing to look
ot° a more favourable time for making-the improve-,
etlii:OPlete. There is no consummation, however, which
'614 Wore to be desired or more important than to in-
hllaiatei the assistance of a Jury into this branch of the
t4th ”ration of justice. That would put an end to
elPenee, and the system of dark. iicerrogatories,
41iel an) anxious not to omit it, but, as I. have
e the time is not yet come when all the difficul-
, atilatettli'e way can be aurmounted. The next point,
1614 of to which I shall proceed is, the great ex-
t;4l fees, and the vast expence of copy-money ;
vets t'd that on all motions, and in all cases, these ale
I,:ltitYfogrreat importance to the suitors.
.For every matter,
itretioje. eveiy Master, copy-money. is dem,anded, fees
hilt'ed, and, however disgraceful it may appear, n
ohe done without them. To show your Lord-
t„"t4ti:t I do not speak without foundation, I shall refer
C,, ',Port of the Commissioners who had to inquire
iLYI,OI,-,''ciart of Chancery. I find, then, to put one case,
e,,115, that the fees of the Master's Officers were 2381.
7tli>stee°,,i the Clerk of the Court, 1041. ; gratuities and
vi,"”eY amounted to 1321. In another case, my Lords,
ole
t, tUm attiount of this bill in which was 171., 111. was
.11,N charged for fees. In fact, I find that fees and
114 tte
fogy' teo Y form the hulk of the expence of all suits. I
hisi; that these copying clerks charge 6s. Bd. per folio
stationer would charge three. farthings, and all
tatter stain is an unnecessary expence. But
:tst a a party does not want the copies. " Good
111:1‘1!C 'aYs, "do not trouble me with copies, I
Ut belTnahL Good clerk, copy me na copies, I
better without them. Kind Sir, Ido not
Yn',lN But then comes the mischief, for
es, 't copies he taken nothing is done, which
aWstrr e",'l'iPti will say in Chancery is a very great
reo,,Y; 14,-;',
f'o the suitor would think if he could run
You have an estate in Chancery, if you wante
tail• lecae you°l the Court, you must take copies, or not on
got cei)ie Proceed. " Why should I (says a suitor).
!lithe 2,5 en Ido not absolutely want them ? I have
kulve tel;elgitill?al in my answer, my attorney made a,,eopy,
Ito,ttilks in the briefs for which I have paid." You,
toil ' each ,el°Pies' is the answer, " and must take them
eil°Rset, -"Partment, or your suit will make no progress,
sc tie e°me to an end." I will suppose that there is
fromueti"o held, the perties are called upon to re-
li,4`l ft,: the Master a bill of particulars, the clerks de-
Vp. Day t'llthe bill is printed, the parties pay for that bill,
e " Why," they say, " must we have
itt:ll:ls%. "It," says the Master, " that won't do, you
Y, A e writt
''tto. '4(114.. co copy ;" and when you have a ts.tritten
.
e0,114a paid your fee, you are provided like age
(t to {'" the Court lend its authority to these gen-
, 'ha lend
c's no—the
sys th 'lose tiemanas, Tle out
tictuali at
x'o more copies shall be charged than the
CZ;ePtrti' ;,"'°de, on which is founded the claim for all
.16 'ley, '0 Pay for written copies. The order of the
'br:jeth t 141.11 sera‘l n° loose copies shall be paid for than one—
from recollection, for I have not lately
t„tsst
'4 one for each bidder. Do I blame
Curt 111
do not. I impute no blame to them,
1114 j I,4qt a natt known and sanctioned it. The Master
glans‘4llling of salary—it is the system, therefore,
the Pt
thate---the Masters had not a farthing of salary,
7tot which was voted to them in 1798, out of
rk
tetii 4'l, of 600/. a year. They were made to
kile '4 to tzi e comes to taxing the suitors. It may be
p,eist,e,.3 tees from the suitors, to levy on them all
thaet,esof the proceedings ; it may be proper to
,xii,nYecle4uitors pay the Judge on the bench, ant
al; Kh• t
Oat ti of the Chancery Court—it in.ay
fro butt
tit the' suitors should he taxed ; all this I will ad.tLe „ I Contend that no more should be taken
*lt tl),:c,ke, ,ofthe suitcr than goes to pay the ex-
° pay f.,,°.ut t and tun Judge. He is obliged, li?we
t;lssYl, s, t,u much necessary writing, which is a
4,6„litlre" i'll, unjust method of raising from the public
;tell pty'ttateid from the suitor three times, as much as
th.one Master and the one Master's Clerk,
Mt* necessary. I repeat again, that
hU anY t„ e Master ; I blame the system. These,
at lt{ F':veilaire the hulk of the changes. which I pro-
d a 14"Lieh
.01:11y shortly advert to the advantageous
it'ttirett`ter
o`""ik will take pl ace. We shall get then
ths see4l;vhedge of the cause; we shall get better
I,:thatiroth; e shall get them quicker; we shall get at
e'l4 gst we shall feel confid• ace in our Judges, arid
1,!4'014„1, reZetqY justice; and, as a condition of all these.
1:1Rt the "itY Lords, we shall get a great dim:-
1t4114,1,11', ti;eeetPeuee ; so ;hat we shall make,. I hope,
jti ; tt.ve ethyl': of Chancery so rapid in its proceed.-
t 4. (44, Pease with one of its Judges. 1 will
tesoltsof cry briefly refer to the general and
ulti-
t4si,oltik,ll4,ptpreeavtelriet it,olterations I pro Kos But before Ido
another Subject.i e.
I have on several
s red to myself
eth, it. after , as if had forgotten some-
...laving sought for in vain I have now
`" te, 141..4 will
.1,, se, give h
pee back to that, as it is a subject
wip e,n ve, great satisfaction in the city of
4i%gesti btantika I believe, one great improvement.
• os.ellteo..a greitt estates, as at present consti-
ttiott rity
of ()tree of expence—and for this I have
Wised
Lord Eldon, who has on more than one
dissatisfaction with the present eye-
°th al "editor eln general chosen from among
e Qoae_ ato generally, and having s great
"n, are suppesed to be more

anxious. to make as much, as possible of the estate.. They
may be supposed also to regulate the expences in the best
manner, and to understand the whole business. It is ob-
vious from their functions that much must depend on the
choice of assignees, and, as a general principle, the person
who has most interest in the bankrupt's property, and
most concerned in winding up his accounts expeditiously, is
a proper person to be chosen assignee. But the misfortune
of this system is, that the assignee acts alone, and there is
no check over him to whom much must he confided. I pro-
pose to add to the ordinary assignee one in whom the Court
can confide. Take from that list of respectable persons,
merchants and others, who are well acquainted with the
affairs of the world, though they no longer devote there-
selves to active business ; I would take one assignee from
those men, who are all known to he gentlemen of great ex-
perience, and who are now the special persons of the City
of London. Many of them would do honour to any situ-
ation or any place—they are active men of business, of
most respectable characters, of unsullied integrity, and
would do honour even to the Bench itself. I have seen
them in the box at Guildhall, and I know that it would
often be in vain for the Judges to try causes wi,hout their
assistance. Let, I say, a list of twenty-five or thirty of
these gentlemen be formed after due deliberation, and let
the Chief Justice at Guildhall, or the Chief Justice of the
New Bankrupt Court, always appoint one of the gentlemen
from this list as the assignee of the Court, to be a guide
and a check on the oth(r assignee ; and let there be one
to each Commission of Bankruptcy ; and that will, I
think, give to the creditors of the bankrupt a good security
that the estate will be properly managed. It will, per-
haps, astonish your Lordships to learn, that at present the
amount of unclaimed dividends is not less than 250,000/.
They ought to he divided : the last Act orders unclaimed
dividends to be divided ; but sundry excuses are found to
avoid complying with this part of the Act of Parliament.
A great many persons would be glad to have their divi-
dends ; but they are too small sums for them to seek
them, or they are at a distance ; and so, as I have stated,
the amount of unclaimed dividends at present is not less
than 250,0001. It happens, too, sometimes, that the
assignees, who are in trade, fail themselves, after they
have obtained possession- of the bankrupt's property.
Even this morning a case of this kind came before me
in the Court of Chancery, the gentleman having in a short
time lost 81,000/., which would break half a dozen ordi-
nary men : he was an assignee to a bankrupt's estate, and
though he is yet a rich man, your Lordships will see, when
such an event occurs, in what difficulties it involves cases
that are already complicated. The assignee has, I take,
no business indeed to retain the property of the bankrupt
estate in his own hands, he has no business to make a
profit on that property—it is his business to divide it, and
this will, I think, he accomplished by appointing the
Court's assignee, a man en whom the Court ran place
confidence. This is the outline of my plan, and its bene-
ficial results will be these :—lt will, I think, shorten,
cheapen, and facilitate the business of the whole depart-
ment of bankruptcy. As to the expense, I will set be-
fore your Lordships one example of the diminution of ex-
pense which my plan will effect. I have calculated the
expense, and it will be much less for more efficient work.
In the first place, my Lords, we shall get rid of 70 places
filled by gentlemen at considerable salaries, and we sub•
stitute fur them only 10 places. I shill propose, too, that
one conveyancing Master be added to the Court of Chan-
cery, in order to save it from th ,t stigma which is now
thrown on it, of having to refer to a common convey-
ancer to ascertain if a title to an estate be good. At
present, my Lords, when any question concerning a title
comes before the Court, the Court is obliged to refer
it to a conveyancer. I say that this is not fit and
proper. I hold that the Court, which has especial cogni-
zance of such cases, is bound to say if the title be good.
That is a high branch of the law, and the Court cannot
plead ignorance for not performing this part of its duty. I
remember, on one occasion, that there was a dispute be-
tween my excellent and Learned Friend, the Solicitor-
General, and Lord Eldon, on a point of the kind, and the
Solicitor-Generul, refusing to take the opinion of the
Court, insisted on the question of title being referred to a •
conveyancer, who had thus to decide, for a ten guinea fee,
what the Court had to decide. I wish then to have a
Conveyancing Master; and if it be supposed that twelve
Masters are not
.too many, or rather, 1 should say, ten,
for the Master of the Rolls, and the Accountant-General,
who are included in the number, cannot do any of the
ordinary duties of the Masters ; but if twelve be not too
many, and they have to examine evidence, and perform
many other important duties, and if two Masters ought to
be added, I shall propose that one of them be a convey-
ancer, and thus we shall cut off 70 offices, and have an
increase of 11. We shall cut off 70 small offices, and
we shall have all increase of 11 large ones. Your Lord-
ships will not suppose that these two descriptions of offices
are the same. For a man who delights in patronage, who
wishes to oblige his friends, 70 small offices are much more
convenient than 11 large ones. fie can give away the 70
small ones among his friends; he can oblige a colleague
with one; but he cannot, he dares not make a Judge of a
man who is incompetent ; he dares not go himself into a
Court, over which he has placed an unfit person. At pre-
sent the persons who ore made. Judges are not made by
favour; they are not obliged by the choice : it is their
right, and God forbid that they should hold their office by
any other title. I say they are not made as a favour ;
they rather confer a favour by taking the office. By sub-
stituting officers of that description then for 70 small
offices, I knock off from one of the Ministers of the Crown
a great deal of patronage ; it will be a great diminution of
patronage in the hands of the Crown, which, in a consti.
tutional point of view, cannot lie unimportant. That will
be a great benefit if no other good effects result from it ;
hut I think delay will be abridged, decisions improved in
their quality, and will be given with greater expedition,
and the expence, that great and tangible evil, will be much
diminished. The saving, in the first place, will be at
least 6,000/. a year in the Secretary of Bankrupts' de-
partment, as that will be diminished from 9,000/. to
3,000/. In the whole bankruptcy department, the clear
net saving will be 26,000/. a year. I do not include lu-
nacy, which is not now a subject of expence, and will
only he as far as the new Board is concerned. There will
then be a saving of 26,000/. in the bankruptcy depart-
ment. The saving in the Master's Office, and in the Re-
gister's Office,will be 20,000/. leaving an ample allowance
for Clerks, Masters, and all that is necessary to the esta-
blishment. To this 46,000/ , 5,000/. must be added for
sinecures, when those who now hold them cease to exist.
To thiS also must be added 11,0001. for other sinecures
which were given by Lord Thurlow to his son, and were
afterwards held by his nephew, who is now their possessor.
The sinecures held by the Rev. Mr. Thurlow amounted to
between 9,0001. and 10,000/. a year. I know that these
are vested interests, but I hope the owners of them may
come to terms. Mr. Thurlow has long enjoyed his in-
come, and will not be averse, I am sure, to consider the
circumstances of the time. I may, perhaps, be said to be
hasty in these matters, and I may be blamed, as I have
hem blamed for getting rid of the Registrar,:and for wish-
ing to abolish the Six Clerks. When I first took my seat
in the Court of Chancery, I found a Master caine there of
a morning, who was described to be always ready to give
any information to the Court as to its practice, which must
have been done by some curious method—l fancy by
means of a speaking trumpet, or some such instru-
ment, fur he was sitting in Chancery-lane while I
was sitting at Westminster. Although it was, there-
fore, a great innovation, I dispensed with the appear-
ance of the Master in Court of ii morning, and I do
not find that the Court has yet needed his assistance.
So it is said, that the Chief Registrar is an office of
great importanee ; he keeps all the other Registrars in or-
der, and I have no doubt that this was done by Mrs.
Eleanor Gwynn, commonly called Nell Gwynn, when
she was a Registrar of the Court of Chancery, though, I
suppose, none of the other Judges took any notice of it in
Court, except, perhaps Lord Shaftesbury. The Patentee
for making out Commissions of Bankruptcy, Ike that
lady, had no business in the Court of Chancery. By the
reform I propose, I deprive myself of great patronage,
should I live long enough to enjoy it; and if the Chief
Justice of the Court of King's Bench received 4,000/. a
year fur his patronage, I might, perhaps, take some credit
to myself for sacrificing so much patronage, without look-
ing to any consideration. I am aware, then, that the
holder of the patent place I have alluded to has vested
rights in it ; but if he should be very exorbitant in his de-
mands, let him not think himself very sure of the tenure
by which he holds (Ace ; if lie aliould think that a sum
equal to that which is given to aif
after a life of
labour for his retiring salary, and if my tenure of effice is
secure, I will net fail to grapple strait it : and that I
shall go out there is no chance—(llear, hear)—for
I am sure that I ant at present well fixed in it ; but
if I should not go out or office I will grapple with
this patent place ; I will let the patentee see that
can exercise the power which the law confers on me. The
fees for making all Commissions of Bankruptcy, whence
the patentee derives his revenue the law gives me the
power by a side wind to put an end to, by preventing the
seal being put to Commissions. If Ido than what then
becomes of the patentee? I will not say that the patentee
has not a vested right, but it is a joke to say that he bolds
it on the same tenure as your Lordships hold your free-
hold estates, of which you cannot be deprived but by the
failure of the seasons or the conquest of an enemy. The
vested rights of this patentee depend on the clause of an
Act of Parliament ; and he who holds the Great Seal can

pia an end to them when he pleases. I think, then, that
the holder of this place, if he attend to morality, to ho-
nourable f elings, or if he take counsel of common sense
and pro-knee, will take into his consideration what I have
now stated to your Lordships ; that he will consult his
attorney, his counsel, his conveyancer, and take all those
de=al steps necessary to make up his mind to accept the
liberal r:ffer I shall make. From the abolition of this
sinecure, then, we shall save 8,000/. a year out of the
11,000/., which, added to the 51,0001. I have already
mentioned, will make (his Lordship mentioned another
i'em, which we did not hear added) the whole saving
amount at least to 73,000/. There is one officer about
whom I must say one word, though, as I have at present a
;rent interest in it, I should be the last person to say any-
thing on the subject. If 'the-reform I propose should be
carried into effect, it will cut off between 7,0001. and
8,000/. from the income of the Lord Ch inceilor. It will put
an end to a large poi tion of the: income of that officer, and
certainly I would not give up, nor would any man give
up, the large profits of a professional income, to take an
office which is held at pleasure, and may he taken away by
a change in the Ministry, unless there be attached to the
office a sufficient reward.—(hear, hear.) It would be at
least proper, I think, that the Lord Chancellor of Eng-
land, the Chief Law Officer, should have a retiring salary
equal to that enjoyed by the Chief Justice of the King's
Bench, and the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, when the Lord
Chancellor is liable to be dismissed, and the Lord Chief
Justice can scarcely hold his office for less than 15 years,
and is not obliged, like the Lord Chancellor, to keep up
any great scale of expence. It is most unfair that the Lord
Chancellor should not be as well provided for as these two
Judges. Another point, my Lords, to which I must allude.
Something, my Lords, must be done for the Appellate Ju-
risdiction. From the Island of Jersey there came in three
years 6,000 appeals, white from the 76,000,000 inhabitants
of India, there came only seven appeals in the year. This arose
from the arrears of the Court of the Privy Council, and
something must be done to make the machinery of the Ap-
pellate Jurisdiction mere perfect. It had at present no one
good quality. It ought to be presided over by the highest
officer—the very best Judge of the kingdom. Without a
Judge of this description, the authority of such a Court
would be obeyed, but it would not have any weight ; it
would not be respected—it would not be, venerated—;t
would not make decisions that would be followed hereafter.
It is necessary, therefore, that the highest officer of the
kingdom—the man of the greatest talent, should be placed
at the head of the Appellate Jurisdiction. The 73,0001., my
Lords, which we shall save is now paid by fees, which
come out of the suitors' pockets. In one year there are
about 1,200 bills of costs to be taxed ; to this may be
added 750 cases that are not t tied, making on the whole
2,000 suitors, among whom the cost of 73.000/. is dis-
tributed. But your Lordships must also recollect, that,
besides these fees, the attorneys swell the bills of costs by
some charges of their own. I know that there are some
attorneys who say no, but these must be extraordinary
men—the only men i know who lay out their hard money
without expecting any return for it, and these attorneys
are so different from other men, not, as is generally sup-
posed, from being more greedy, but from baying. a ro-
mantic generosity, such as I have never heard of in any
other men. The savings, then, will amount to 73,0001.,
and that now comes principally out of fees, which are
enhanced by the charges of the attorney. The sum is
distributed, indeed, unequally : some costs amounting to
18001. and others not above 181. But the diminution
of expence is the least of these benefits. If the re-
fiarms I have recommended he carried into effect, they
will reduce expences, and make equity as cheap or
cheaper than law; they will promote dispatch, and they
will make equity as certain as law; and they will make it,
I hope, as satisfactory to the whole community. The
project may, indeed, fail ; for projectors and inventors
ate never mistrustful, and they find, or fancy benefits
that no other persons can ; but if I fail, it will not
be, my Lords, without having exerted all my talents
and industry on this subject, and without having
sought and obtained all the professional assistance I could
command, both in the Court to which I belong, and in the
other Courts. I might have had more advice, my Lords;
I might have moved your Lordships to appoint a Com-
mittee; I might have got a Commission to inquire fur
the asking ; to that Commission, or to that Committee, I
might have referred my ideas ; and after months had
elapsed, when the long vacation had passed, and the next
Session had arrived, a report would be made—a discussion
would ensue—the report would be torn in pieces by pam-
ph'et after pamphlet—no measure would be founded on it
—no good would come of it—and we should find all our
labours thrown away, and the report and the inquiry
would he stifled under conflicting opinions. I thought,
my Lords, that the course more fitting for me to take in
the p esent circumstances was, first to judge of the whole
matter myself—to-make myself master of all its hearings
—to form ray own Opinions and my own plans—and, hav-
ing matured those opinions, and drawn up an outline of
my plan, I sent it to three bodies of learned professional
gentlemen, the Judges of the Common Law, the Masters
in Chancery, and the Commissioners appointed to inquire
into the Court of Chancery in 1826 ; anti I requested
them to examine the plans; and I stated, that I was
anxious that they should sift them, and point out
any opinion which might seem to them to he erroneous;
for, though I knew that I had well and maturely
weighed my own opinions, I wished to learn by what ar-
guments they could be met, and to what objections they
were liable. These gentlemen met day after day ; they
conferred together ; they did as I wished—they examined
tile plan ; they tore to pieces, to rags, to tatters, the ideas
I laid before them. By this I got at the truth ; by this
I corrected many defects ; and aided by their experience
and their sound and deliberate judgment, the measure was
subjected to a more severe and rigid scrutiny than per-
haps any measure before was ever subjected to; for the
bodies to which I submitted it have different interests,
and are in the habit of viewing things tinder different
aspects. From their examination I have derived far
greater satisfaction than I could expect ; and I hope it
may he found equally to satisfy your Lordships. It now,
my Lords, only remains for your Lordships to perform
your duty, and to you I commit the measure which I have
prepared. My Lords, I entertain great respect for the
Court of Chancery, knowing what it has in it of good ;
and therefore it is natural that I should attempt to put
away the abuses from it, and to cleanse it from the weeds
which may have grown around it ; and in sweeping away
abuses and in clearing away weeds, restoring and retaining
all that was originally good, and was adapted to the cir-
cumstances of the times under which it was established,
reforming only those parts of it which the altered state
of the circumstances under which we live require
to be reformed to adapt it to them ; and by so re-
forming and purifying it, make it adequate and fit to
perform that duty it was originally and is now in-
tended to perform, I have omitted till now to defend
myself against one charge. I may, for these propositions
of reform, be called an innovator and an enemy to the
institutions of the country. Do you believe him, my
Lords, to be au enemy to an institution who found it
covered with moss and weeds, and labours to cleanse it and
render it bright and beautiful ? Do you believe him to be
an enemy, who, sensible both of the merits and defects of
an institution, is anxious to show those merits, and not
blind to its defects? Do you call that man an enemy to
his country who is firmly resolved to resist the putting of
any hostile foot on its shores, who is determined to die in
the last ditch rather thou see the smallest of its rights sa-
crificed ? Do you call that man an enemy to his country
who exerts all his power to crush conseleatms, and root
out rel'els from her soil, and put an end to those conspira-
cies by which her peace is endangered? Do you, my Lords,
call that man au enemy to the Constitution and the insti-
tutions of the country who watches the progress of the
times, and notices what those institutions have congenial
to age, hut alien to it, and who, noticing that, would root
out the defects, and purge them of the dross, that the
noble minerals d mifayr,tak
unwemialldl tnhoeitr, andit,niLraobrdles,qucaalliitiscus a
chr-
a
neither, my Lards, will
you call him an
tnarnen atu?eneiny,
enemy to our institutions wl.O endeavours to clear
them from those defects which reader them unsightly,
and are certain to produce dissatisfaction in the
community. If he be an enemy who endeavours in time
to correct abuses—if be be an enemy to those institutions
who wishes to make them more worthy of attachment—
if he be hostile to the country who strives to introduce
measures of moderate improvement—to that charge I
plead guilty. Be it Parliamentary Reform—be it re
trenchment, or be it abuses in the administration of justice,
it) all the departments my feeble attempts are all directed
1)v the only hostility I can feel, or that I ever did feel, to
the institutions of the country—the hostility of desiring
to make them perfect. My Lords, I present to your
Lordships the first Bill I have mentioned.
Lord LYNDHURST said that in most of the state-
ments of his Noble Friend he concurred ; but he wished
to ask Lim when he intended to bring in the other Bills,
and at what period he meant to forward them?
The LORD CHANCELLOR was understood to say,
that the two other Balls should lie laid Ott their Lordships'
table on Friday, and that on Monday lie should be pre-
pared to say what course he meant to pursue.
Adjourned at a Quarter-past Nine o'clock.

HO USE OF COMMONS, FEnnu4RY
In consequence of there being ballots for Election Com-
mittees to try the petitions presented agar the returns

of Alenlets for Oxford, Taunton, and Carrickfergus, the
gallery was not opened until after Five o'clock.
After several petitions bad been presented on various
subjects, and some private Bills forwarded a stage,