The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-13 00:00:00

of those who had not taken peas in making a popu-
lation return ; if they took the evidence of the person
who had, that would be unnecessary, for his evidence was
already before them in the return itself.—(Hear, heir.)
The Hon. Member had observed on the difference of opi-
nion between him and his Noble Friend. Ile was con-
nected with that Noble Lord on the most friendly terms,
and had been so during the greater part of his life, but
those who marked the proceedings of that House must see
that they frequently differed in their political opinions.
The Hon. and Learned Member had asked, was this the
way to get the confidence of the country ? He (Lord Al-
thorp) would answer that question by asking. was it the
way to deserve the confidence cf the country to persist in
motions of this kind, which were purely put forward for
the purpose of delay, end in order to place impediments in
the way of the passing of that 13111 which the country se
ardently desired ?—(Hear.)
Mr. CHOKER rose amid cries of " Question," and
commenced by observing, that the Noble Lord had quite
passed over the real question before the House. The
question was, whether they would consent to allow the
borough of Appleby to prove that it was entitled to be
placed in the same condition as Buckingham, which bad
also represented its case, and received immediate attention
from the Noble Lord (Russell) and the Government.—
(Hear.) The borough of Appleby was, it appeared, com-
posed of two parishes--St. Michael's and St. Lawrence.
In the census of ISII, they were taken together, and the
number of inhabitants found to be above 2,200, In the
return of 1521 one of the parishes WAS left out, and the
petitioners now prayed they might be allowed to state
that it had been left out, and that the borough, according
to the rule laid down by the Government, was entitled to
be taken out of Schedule A, and placed in Schedule B.
He cert duly did expect, from what had taken place with
respect to other boroughs, that the Noble Lord would have
risen at once in his place, avowed it to he a mistake, and
expressed his willingness to amend it. He confessed he
was disappointed that such a course had not been adopted.
What they proposed was to get evidence ; but the Noble
Lord said, wait till the House goes iato Committee. Now
he was in the correction of the Chair when he said that
no evidence could be taken in Committee, except that
Committee had the previous sanction of the House, and
that was what they now required.—(Hear, hear.) The
Attorney-General said, however, that the proposition was
a mask for something else ; and the Noble Lord said it
was intended to produce delay. The memorial of tl e pe-
titioners had been presented to the Secret try of State
weeks ago, and the Government had thought proper not
to comply with,their prayer, but it was impossible for
them to have brought their case before that House a mo-
ment sooner than they bail done. This was the mask
and delay of which they had been guilty. The lion.
Member concluded by obeervicig, that the case of Appleby
was the same as that of Buckingham and Truro, and se-
veral other places, with regard to which the Government
had acknowledged its error, and he hoped the house
would new compel them to hear the case, which the
people of Appleby believed they could make cut.—( Hear.)
Colonel TORRENS observed, that the people of Ash-
burton were in the same position as the people of Appleby.
They had memorialised the Secretary of State, and their
prayer was refused, but thty did nut insist on being heard
by Counsel.
Mr. CROKER said, if they did, he was cn the same
grounds prepared to support them,
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON rose amid cries of ques-
tion. He happened to be more intimately acquainted with
the borough of Appleby than perhaps any of the Members
of that House, and he must say, from what be knew of
the allegations of the petition, that lie thought the House
was bound to accede to its prayer —( Hear, leer.) The
jurisdiction of the Mayor of Appleby extended over both
parishes ; as it could not be denied that they con-
tained more than 2,000 inhabitants, he thought that the
borough was entitled to retain one of its Members, and
he must say he knew the petitioners to be all highly re-
spectable men, and as little at the heck of any patron as
any voters in the kingdom.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. C. FERGUSSON, amid cries of " Question,"
said he could not vote for hearing Counsel, but be cer-
tainly required further information. He did nut wish to
hear Counsel, fur they could not explain to him the law
better than he knew it already, nor satisfy him with res-
pect to the principle of the Bill more than be was already
satisfied, but be bad occasion for information on the sub-
ject of the parishes, and he wished to know if Bondgate
was in the parish of St. Michael's.
Lord LOWTHER was able to satisfy the Hon. Mem-
ber on that point in one word. Bondgate was in the
parish of St. Michael's.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the Government admitted
the allegations of the petitioners, but that did not affect the
principle on which they professed to act.—(Hear, and
loud cries of " Question.")
The House then divided—
For the amendment
Against it :2S4
Majority
On our return to the gallery eve found
Mr. CONOLLY speaking to the main question ; and
objecting to a measure which, in his opinion, went far to
endanger the most valuable institutions of the country.
It was absolutely unnecessary. At no perked since the
Revolution was that House a more faithful representative
of the sentiments of the country—at no moment was Re-
form less called for; of which fact, the conduct of the
last and the preceding Parliament afforded numerous
proofs. He was far from saying that the large and con-
siderable towns of the kingdom ought not to enjoy the
elective franchise. Butt he deprecated the mode in which
it was proposed to affect this object; and he *till more
strongly deprecated the extent to which it was proposed
to go. It was repugnant to the principles of justice ; it
was incompatible with the integrity of the British Consti-
tution ; it was destructive of the security of property. To
him the measure appeared to be a flagrant insult to the
moral sentiments of the nation ; and be was persuaded
that when they understood it, they would not tolerate so
sweeping a confiscation. The elective franchise was as
valuable to any man as any property be could possess ;
and nothing could justify its spoliation. It tended to de
stroy all that just influence of rank and property which
had hitherto been productive of so much national benefit.
He had been sorry to bear a distinction made, and that by
persons for whose talents he entertained the highest re-
spect—between property and franchise. To him they
appeared to be so incorporated, to emanate so completely
from one another, that be felt it impossible to make any
distinction between them. They were, in fact, identi-
cal. Those who impeached the validity of the elective
franchise, deteriorated property, destroyed prescription,
usage, and ancient tenure, and overlooked the sanction
which the Legislature had repeatedly given to those par-
ticular rights to which they were desirous of putting an
end. At the Union with Ireland the rights of those in-
dividuals who were now called boroughmongers, those
persons who by their property and their station in life,
possessed a just influence over the tenantry and neighbours,
were fully and fairly acknowledged. If it were possible
that the spoliative principle of the Bill could be rendered
worse by any circumstance, it would be by the excite-
ment, and by the extravegant speculations to which it had
given rise. They reminded him of some of the occur-
rences which preceded the French Revolution; when the
destruction of the church was threatened. At that period
it had been well said by Mr. Burke, that " nothing was
more easy than to vilify those whom you intend to rob."
At that period the higher classes were held up by the
Press to the execration of the people at large. The same
game was playing in this country at the present moment.
The Press was actively engaged in vilifying those echo
held property, who held it long, and who held it for the
benefit of others as well themselves. They were held
up as dangerous to the rights, and as desirous to supplant
the liberties of the country. Surely some doubts might
reasonably be entertained of the justice of a measure, the
friends of which were obliged in its defence to resort to
defamation, and to st aements incompatible with com-
mon truth, and irreconcileable to common honesty.—
(Ilear, bear, hear.) These reiterated attacks on the
motives of the boroughmongers, as they were called (with
not one of whom he was acquainted), were all in aid of
the projected violation of their rights, and spoliation of
their property. He resented those attacks, because he
saw no reascrn to believe that those against whom they
were directed were justly liable to them ; and because they
appeared to him to he the efforts of a weak party to main-
tain themselves in the absence of any other support.--
(Hear, hear.) One of his greatest objections to the Bill
was the extremely extensive way in which it admitted the
and
in that
his opinion
democraticpiath
principle e
lower orders to the elective franchise. He had seen too
much of the lower orders to speak disrespectfully of them.
He was proud of his own privileges, and he should he
happy to share them with any classes of his countrymen
He stated this to show that he did not want to ride over
the rights
'ecnarie ;rbduttolo far,
wknew
proposed measure so carried it.—(Hear, hear.) By that
igh t s
might u: any
be n
Bill the spoliation principle would be in full action, and
backed, as it would be, by the democratic principle, it was
doubly dangerous, and would probably lead to consequences
of the most fatal kind.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. FAINT: maintained that his Majesty's Government
t
had introduced this Bill solely to relieve themselves from
the difficulthis in which their imbecility us Ministers had
involved them. For the attainment of their selfish pur-
poses, and the gratification of their own te
in rested views
they had wickedly and delusively appealed to the
people.