The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-04 00:00:00

VIE SUN, LONDON: FRItAY, MAY 4, is

through so many dioceses, and held under such various tenures. I say
it is utterly impossible at this late period of the session that a Corn.
mittee can make such a report, on so involved a subject, as would
enable Government to bring in a Bill upon it next session, if even they
really had such an intention.—(Hear.) Supposing Ministers have no plan
prepared, and admitting it to be so necessary that the question should be
settled next session, why call upon parliament to interpose? Whydo not
Ministers lay down some principle of their own, and thus do away
with the uncertainty In which the question is kept ?--(1-ICar, hear.)
If a Committee be granted, is that Clamant WO 1`)"'"........e tile question of
appropriation 2 (Hear, hew see
ing. I object tn it • object to this mode of proceed.
this is--
e. s
.• an evasion of their proper duty on the part of
ernment.—(Cheers.) They have no right, by adopting such a
course, to keep the question in suspense. Why not manfully take the
sense
_of the House upon whatever principle they have in view, and
not stretch out the question to an interminable length ?—( Hear, hear,
and cheers) Suppose all objections to naming a Committee be over.
ruled, there still remains another and a more important question.
Shall we, if it be found that the property in question is susceptible of
the supposed increase by an improved administration, provided that it
be strictly applied to spiritual purposet —(Heer, hear, hear)—that
is, to the increase of the stipends of clergymen, where such in.
crease is necessary, and affording the means of religious ob-
servance in places where they are at present deficient.—(Cheer-
ing.) Whatever relief you afford to the Dissenters, if the State
do not bear the burthen of supporting the fabric of the Church, the
real benefit will be given to property, which was always liable to
that burthen by law. Before you determine you ought to listen to the
authorities, which shows that it would be unjust to throw this hurthen
upon the property of the Church. I know that if I merely question the
authority of Ministers of the Church, of those who are supposed to re-
present the interests of the Church in the House, of those who from
party connection or adherence to hereditary opinion are supposed to be
warmly attaches! to the Establishment, that authority would be looked
to with considerable distrust, and many would object to it. But I am
armed with authority above all exception. There was not one document
which did not bear the signatures of " Melbourne," " John Russell,"
and " Spring Rice."—(Loud cheers and laughter.) If I can prove my
position on such unexceptionable authority surely the House ca of
hesitate to agree with mc.—(Renewed laughter.) The Honoutileste
Member for Kilkenny has charged the Noble Lord opposite (John
Russell) with being an utensil in the hands of others with respect
to the report of the Church Commission. The Noble Lord, forsooth,
was but the innocent clay moulded into shape by others—(Laughter)—
but no proof of this allegation has been given. Before I proceed to
adduce the evidence which I intend to lay before the House I still make
one observation upon what hgs fallen from the Noble Lord. The Noble
Lord said that when we held the reins of Government we never made
any inquiry into or proposed any remedy for the defects of the Esta-
blishment—that we proposed no new distribution of revenues, nor ex-
hibited any intention of lopping of excrescences, with the view of
applying the surplusage to make up for deficiency. Now my answer is
simply this—that very measure which he has proposed to the
House was founded on the report off a Committee nominated not
by him, but by us. Is that doubted ? I myself was the first
Minister who proposed inquiry into the subject. In 1834 I
proposed an inquiry into the state of the venous dioceses in
England and Wales, also into the state of the episcopal revenue and into
the state of the several collegiate churches, as not being sufficiently con.
ducive to to the efficiency of the Establishment. I also proposed an in-
quiry as to the residence of the clergy. I proposed this, and the inquiry
was likely to have a satisfactory effect, for I carried the goodwill of the
Church along with me. Yes, I repeat, the inquiry would have been
made with double effect and with thrice the prospect of a useful refor-
mation, for there was the double guarantee. The Noble Lord, on the
contrary, had alienated the Church from his plan of reform.—(Cheers.)
They left in a state of doubt and uncertainty all the Interests of the less
sees in such dioceses as those of Durham and Northumberland, by un-
dertaking that which they had not the •igour to effect nor the manliness
to abandon, and they alienated from their side those grave and respect-
able ecclesiastics who would have co-operated with me in following up a
steady reformation. I tell them now that their position with regard
to the Church is altered. There is a great difference between
what it was and what it is. They cannot command the passing of mea.
sures necessary for the reformation of the Church, and that is the rea-
son why they attempt to take refuge in a Select Committee. Let them
propose their measures. I will listen to them; but Ido not think my
opinion will be altered, but I freely tell them that I do not believe they
are masters of their own measures with respect to the Church. I tell
them there is a party here—there is a party in another place--(Cheers
and counter cheers)—but there is another above all, and more powerful
than either—public opinion, which rallies round the Church in sufficient
strength to give it ample and effectual support.—(Loud cheers, and
cries of " Oh, ob.") Do you doubt it 2 If you do, why do you con-
tent yourself with a Committee? Why do you not introduce your
measure of last year, or some measure for which Government will be
responsible ? Why not propose, as has been before proposes!, a reso-
lution, stein it to be the opinion of this House that Church-rates
'should be abolished, and an adequate provision made out of
Church property ?—(hear, hear, hear.) Why do you now say no-
thing of future appropriation ? Why do you propose now to inquire
whether the fund be there ? You have learned the wisdom of the di-
rection—" First catch your hare." You were so sure last year that you
did not take this precaution. The guests were all bidden before the
hare was caught. However convenient the Noble Lord may find it to
evade the explanation of the ultimate tendency of this proposed inquiry,
I ask Mon. Gentlemen if he is not bound to specify, and we to know
what are the conditions to which it is to be confined; but the Noble
Lord has found it more convenient to make invidious reflections on
Hon. Members, and to dwell on some eases of the misconduct of indi.
vidual members of the Established Church, than to explain the ultima.
tum of the inquiry. But who would for a moment contend that one or
two cases of individual misconduct can cast a general imputation upon a
large body? And admitting for the sake of argument that such cases of
individual misconduct did exist, there is now no imputation against the
present conduct of the dignitaries of the Church, and we ourselves
should take effectual security, which it is our duty to do, by a careful
attention to the private Bills presented to us, that such cases do not
occur in future. This it is in our power, and it is also our duty to do.
But with respect to what has been said of the general conduct of the
body by the Noble Lord, I appeal to the opinion of the Commissioners,
who, in speaking of the liberality that distinguished it, observes, " We
notice the liberality of the higher Clergy, who, in spending large sums
in the cleaning and repairing of their Churches, have drawn largely
from their own incomes ?" Now, Sir, seeing that, first as to the pre-
sent conduct of the general body, there is no ground for imputing to
them the sort of conduct of which the Noble Lord complains ; and
next, that our own care may provide a remedy for any future attempts
to sacrifice the property of the Church to individual interest, I say
that there is no reason whatever for going into the present inquiry.
—(Hear, hear.) But what has been said of the general body of the
Deans and Chapters by the Church Commissioners in their
report ? Why that " they have exhibited great liberality in embellish.
ing and improving the fabrics of the Church, to the evident diminution
of their own incomes." With this testimony to the general conduct of
the Clergy as a body, I will say that a few instances of abuse, which
occurred some years since, and which cannot now be remedied, are not
a sufficient ground for an inquiry of this kind. Now, with respect to the
conditions under which we are to enter upon the present inquiry, the
report which I hold in my hand is signed, amongst others, by Mel_
bourne, Thomas Spring Rice, and Lord J. Russell ;" and from that re.
port it appears, amongst other statements, that there were no less than
3,528 benefices under 150/. per annum, and that on many of them were
no glebe houses, and on many others the houses were not fit for real.
donee. The same report also states that there are many poor livings for
which it would Ise very difficult to provide except by appropriting them to
the Clergymen of the neighbouringparishes. Now this is the evidence upon,
which I rely, and I beg the attention of the House whilst I read the
extracts :—" It appears from the report of the ecclesiastical revenues
commission, that there are no less than 3,528 benefices under 150/. per
annum. Of this number 13 contain each a population of more than
10,000; 51 a population of from 5,000 to 10,000; 251 a population of
between 2,000 and 5,000; and 1,125 have each a population of between
500 and 2,000. On every one of these benefices it is desirable that
there should be a resident Clergyman ; but unless their value be aug.
mented, it will in many cases be impossible to secure this advantage.
The necessity of such augmentation will be greatly increased by the
changes which we are about to recommend in the laws relating to
pluralities and residence. The means which can be applied to effect
the improvement are very far short of the amount required. Even
were no addition to be made to the income of benefices having a pe.
pulation below 300, it would take no less a sum than 235,000/. per
annum to raise all benefices having a population of between 500 and
2,000, to the annual value of 2001.; those having a population of
2,000 and upwards, to 3001.; and those having 5,000 and upwards, to
4001. per ann." Again " The most prominent,however, of these de.
fects, which cripple the energies of the Established Church, and circum.
scribe its usefulness,is the want of churches and ministers in the large towns
and populons districts of the kingdom. The growth of the population has
been so rapid as to outrun the means possessed by the Establishment of
meeting its spiritual wants, and the result has been that a vast pros
portion of the people are left destitute of the opportunities of public
worship and Christian instruction, even when every allowance is made
fur the exertions of those religious bodies which are not in connection
with the Established Church." " The evils which flow from this defi-
ciency in the means of religious instruction and pastoral superinten.
dence, greatly outweigh all other inconveniences resulting from any

defects or anomalies in our ecclesiastical institutions and it unfortu
nately happens, that while these evils are the most urgent of all, and

most require the application of an effectual remedy, they are precisely

those for which remedy can be-least easily found. The resources
which the Established Church possesses, and which can properly he
made available for that purpose, in whatever way they may be hus-
banded or distributed, are evidently quite inadequate to the exigency
of the case ; and all that we can hope to do is, to diminish the intensity
of the evil." Some time since a reform was proposed of this pre_
. .

. _
clone state of things by a curtailment of the income of Bishops, but
even that was found to give only a surplus of 130,0001., whilst
no less than 235,0001. was required to raise a certain number
of livings to anything like a decent inceme. The question, therefore,
which I have is submit is this—supposing you are able to realise an im-
proved value of 200,0001. or 250,000/. on Church property, will you
apply it to relieve the land from the payment of Church-rates, or will

:.ou attempt to remedy the deficiencies which are described in this Re-
port, inadequate as those resources, according to this very Report,
would be, to do more than diminish the intensity of the evil. Under
the circumstances, I submit that it is your imperative duty, before you
enter upon this inquiry, to state the views and objects with which it
was undertaken. When the House considers that in the diocese of
Lichfield and Coventry, " there are sixteen parishes or districts, each
having a population above 10,000, the aggregate being 235,000, with
church room for about 29,000," and admitting the distinction which
is urged between Church-rates and Tithes—(hear, hear)--I will
ask whether the House will proclaim that because men dis-
sent from the Established Church they should- be relieved from the
support of its fabric ? I entreat the Mouse to reflect whether, if this
prinAple be admitted, it may not And another conscientious scruple to
start up against the payment of rent-charges upon land.—(Hear, hear.)
Wherever the property has come into the present possessor's hands by
inheritance, has he not received it subject to this charge? Wherever
lie has obtained it by purchase, his religious scruples have not prevented
him from submitting to an abatement in the price proportionate to those
burthens ; and this is a condition of property which he who is born in
Scotland, and who dissents from the Established Church of this country
is equally bound to submit to. If this new principle were udopted, why
might not the Duke of Buccleuch, or any other great landed proprietor,
insist that his religious scruples prevented his payment of those charges,
and urge a claim against the support of a Church with which he did not
communicate, with equal justice with the Dissenters ? The Houseshould
in my opinion, consider that this is a tax, not upon individuals, but upon
property, and whether Lord Althorp was not justified when he stated
that the State, and not the Church, would not provide for the mainte-
nance of the fabric of worship; but, above all, the House should consi-
der whether it is not their imperative duty, under the circumstances
detailed to them in the report of the Church Commission, to apply any
surplus which might become available towards providing the means of
religious worship in districts which were so destitute of it ; and I hope
that with all these considerations in their minds the Gentlemen of
England will pause before they sanction a measure which, with what-
ever view or object it may be proceeded with, must have the effect of
discharging their own estates from the charges to which they had been
hitherto subject, arid dzpriving the Church of those revenues upon which
they had heard, from the highest and most undoubted testimony,
the most urgent and imperative demands.—(Cheers,) it had
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Right Hon.
Gentleman had, with great inconvenience as he thought to the House,
though with great convenience to himself, combined two distinct
questions. (Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman and the Hon.
Member for the University of Oxford had assumed that no one could
vote for the committee unless he were also prepared to vote on the ques-
tion of appropriation of the proceeds of any improved management of
church property to other than the purposes of the Established Church ;
but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) appealed from the Right Hon.
Gentleman to the House if there were not many individuals who dif-
fered as to any appropriation of the property, but who, "vortheltis

agreed as to the propriety of the per.,,_.
same time while he did net doubt that the line es - _
employed by the Right Honourable Gentleman was a most
convenient one for himself, he must thank him for
it was one calculated to gain votes for the proposed inquiry; for holy
could those Hon. Gentlemen who agreed in the present destitution of
the Established Church refuse to inquire If the management of its pro:
Porty were net suse-er*t!'_' fSr lifiiiiasVement i Those who thought with
the n!g-ht..
Hon. Gentleman as to the necessity Of increased means must
and ought to Vote fbr the prClPOsitiort of the Governinent. He did not
sav this with d VieW Of disgitising the real object of the inquiry and of
thus gaining a vote. The Objeet which he ekpeeted to gain by the in-
quiry was the proving that conaldCfabit adientsigtis might lie gained
both to the lessor and to the lessee, by finding, Of tathet creiting,
new value to the property of the Church, and he would say that Is 4 was
no friend to the Established Chdrch, who, admitting and deploring
its destitution, refused to go into that inquiry, And if appro.
priation of the improved value were such as to give the Church
peace and concord that such a consideration ought to have great weight,
even considered against the destitution that was brought forward. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had said that if the property were capable of an
improved value, it ought to be applied exclusively to spiritual ends ; but
did not the Right Hon. Gentleman consider that the maintenance of
the fabric of the Church was not an ecclesiastical object? On that
point he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could appeal to the autho-
rity of the Right lion. Gentleman himself, who had agreed to the prin-
ciple of the Irish Church Bill. The principle now involved was the
same, and the Right Hon. Gentleman could not now turn round and say,
that the property of the English Church was about to be devoted to
other than ecclesiastical uses. The Right Hon. Gentleman appealed to
the generosity of the gentlemen of England—he told them they pur.
chased their estates subject to the burthen of the Church-rate,
and asked them if they would now exonerate themselves from it at the
expense of the Church; but in 1835 the Right Hon. Gentleman's no.
tions were not so high as they now appeared to be; and he could ap.
peal to the words which the Right Hon. Gentleman, then a Mi-
nister of the Crown, had inserted in the King's Speech, and when
asked if among the burdens from which he intended to relieve the
land he meant to abolish Church-rates, had answered in the affir-
mative. lie believed he had no charge of betrayal of confidence
to fear if he told the House there was generally a pretty clear
understanding between the Minister and the mover and seconder of
the Address. Now he would assume an interview between the Right
Hon. Gentleman and the Member for Liverpool, in which the Right
Hon. Gentleman might be supposed to instruct the Hon. Member
not to put Church-rates prominently forward, but to talk of local
burdens and then, as it were, incidentally to ask if he meant Church
rates. He thought the House would see that the Right Hon. Gentle-
Man and the Government had not so widely differed —(Cheers.) The
object of Government was not so much the relief to the rate-payers, but
to put an end to religious contests and animosities, and to give con-
cord to the Church. To go back to the year 1834, he (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) thought the project of his Noble Friend Lord Spencer
a great improvement, and calculated to put an end to the heart-burnings
that so much prevailed; but he thought the present a better one, and
ear more conducive to that end. If the Right Hon. Gentleman wished
for a description of the frightful contests which arose from Church.
rates, he need only refer him to the eloquent denunciations of his Noble
Friend beside him.—(Cheers.) He was ready to defend the mea-
sure of 1834, and he would say that the disputes were neither
confirmed nor produced by that measure, but by the evils of the
system itself, He would admit frankly, and at the hazard of losing a
vote, that it was his object out of the inquiry to obtain funds for the
abolition of the Church rate.—(Cheers from both sides of the House.)
It was not the first time he had heard it advanced that the motion for
an inquiry was a mere subterfuge, but the justification of the inquiry
was that it was not a mere arithmetical matter involving a few figures;
but that it applied to such conflicting details that the labours of a
Committee were necessary to consider and to reconcile them; and he
would appeal to the Right Honourable Gentleman if he did not know
that, although the principle of the measure were agreed on, it was im.
possible, in the complication of usages, the different value of houses, min.
ing, and arable property, to proceed without an inquiry by Committee;
and he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman if it were possible to rectify
the details and to reconcile conflicting interest except by such means ?
Let Hon. Gentlemen only think of the consequences of the present
system of leasing Church property. A Protestant Bishop called on,
when his undivided attention should be bestowed on the awful and all.
important state he was approaching, to have to think of leasing, receiving
fines, and calculating rewards! He was surprised to hear the Hon.
Gentleman who first spoke talk of the impossibility of persona of such
virtue and dignity being influenced by temporal considerations. The
Hon. Gentleman knew little of human nature or the power of temporal
concerns to divert the heart from the contemplation of more important
subjects. He would appeal for support to those Gentlemen who lived in
the neighbourhood of Church property, and who were familiar with the
unimproved land, which was not allowed to yield a proper reward for
labour and capital. Such things arose from the present regulation of
Church property, and it was upon such grounds that he wished the
House to agree to a Committee. The Right Honourable Gentleman
had said that the Government could not command a majority to carry
a measure against the interests of the Established Church.—(Cheers
from the Opposition.) He did not regret those cheers—he did not
appear there to do so—such taunts were a part of their policy, but they
found it easier to utter them in vestry meetings and on hustings than in
that House.—(Cheers.) He hoped Honourable Gentlemen would de-
cide with fairness and candour upon this Committee, which was by no
means for the purpose of sheltering the Government, but of reconciling
conflicting interests—an inquiry whether it be not profitable to improve
the condition of the land, and to give peace and harmony to two con-
flicting parties. It was in this spirit that they made the motion--not as
enemies but as friends to the Established Church. If the facts that
should come out in the inquiry did not support their views, if they were
not able to make out the case they expected, still much good would be
done. In conclusion, he thanked the House for the attention with
which it had heard him.
The House then divided, when the numbers were—
For the original motion of Lord J. Russell, that a Com.
mittee be appointed
Against it
Majority
On our readmission to the Gallery, we found the House in discus-
sion on the amendment proposed by Mr. LIDDELL.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that it was his intention, after the able
speech of his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to
have said one word in reply ; but as Hon. gentlemen opposite seemed to
think that the proposed application was a desecration of church pro-
perty, and that any surplus could not lawfully lao applied to the abolition
of church rates, and as this great principle was directly involved in the
amendment of the Honourable Gentleman—an amendment intended
to fetter, not the Committee, but the House itself. He (Lord John
Russell) would read a few passages from the speeches of Hon.
ourable Gentlemen opposite- In the debate on the Church
Temporalities Act for Ireland the Noble Lord the Member for North
Lancashire had said that " the Bishop was entitled to let his land by
Act of Parliament. He was sure that the Hon. Member would not
deny shat it was from an Act of Parliament that the Church derived its
power over these leases, and that the Act enacted that it should not be
lawful for any Bishop to grant a lease for more than twenty-one years.
It had been said that this provision was intended to prevent the aliena.
tion of the property of the Church ; but what had been the practical
effect of it ? The practical effect had been, that from a remote period
the bishops had been in the habit of anticipating the revenues which in
point of right belonged to their successors." And the Noble Lord had
added, " That this bill proposed to add to the Church the power of
granting leases in perpetuity, instead of confining them to grant leases
for twenty-one years only. This would be a great advantage to the
tenant, as it would enable him to sell his lease in perpetuity; and it was
this very property, which was neither the property of the church nor
the tenant in fee, which the Government were now prepared to sell
under this act of Parliament." So that according to the noble lord's
statement, leases might be granted in perpetuity and the increased value
was not the property of the church, And what said the right hon.
baronet the member for Tamworth on the same subject ? He said
that "he did not object to the appropriation of some portion of
the revenue of the Church of Ireland to a purpose which he considered
to be strictly ecclesiastical—(Loud cheers)—and which lie believed
would tend to increase its utility.—(Renewed cheers.) He was pre.
pared, and he now only repeated those sentiments which he hail
expressed in the last Parliament, he was prepared, he repeated, to admit
that he thought that no settlement of the question relating to the
Church would succeed which did not involve an arrangement on the
subject :of church cess, and vestry rates."— (Cheers, and hear,
hear.) It may be expedient, or it may not be expedient, eon.
Untied the Noble Lord, it may be wise, or it may not be wise to apply
any portion of the funds arising from the better management of the pro.
petty of the church as a substitute for church-rates; but I cannot under.
stand how, after the words which I have read, delivered by the Hon.
Gentleman opposite, and fully admitting the principle, they can now
maintain that those additional funds ought not to be so applied.--
(Cheers.) I have not another word to say.—(Renewed cheers.)
Sir R. PEEL--But I have another word, and I appeal to high
authorities-1 appeal especially to the authority of the Noble
Lord himself in the discussion relative to the church-rates in

^nt inquiry ? At the
argument

England, which took place, be it remembered, after the prece-
dent which he now says had been set in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord " declared that his opinion remained unchanged ;

and he thought the duty of the State, by means of Church.rates, or
of some other public fund—(Ministerial cheers)—to mantain the
buildings set apart fur the performance of Divine worship in a

state of repair." And, in reply to the Honourable Member for
Kilkenny, the Noble Lord added, that " whatever might be the

anxiety of the Dissenter, they could not have been in ignorance
or doubt as to the opinions of the Government. Two years ago
Lord Althorp brought in a Bill on the subject, in which the princi-
ple was declared that Church-rates should not be abolished unless the
State provided a substitute. He had never said anything inconsistent
with that principle, or at least anything to lead the dissenters to sup-
pose that Ministers meant to abolish Church-rates without an equiva-
lent—(Ministerial cheers)—or that such an equivalent was to be found
in the revenues of the Church."—(Loud cheering.) "To that
principle he had adhered, and to it he intended to ad.
here. On various occasions he had explained his views to the din-
'

setters, and they were satisfied that he did not intend to bring
fv)rward any Bill that would accomplish their wishes." At the
same time that this alteration of Church property is under considers.
Lion, we have the Report of the Church Commission, signed by the Noble
Lord, by Lord Melbourne, and by Mr. Thomas Spring Rice, in which
it was said—'• One mode of rendering those incomes of the Bishops less
uncertain would be to allow the existing leases. both for lives and for
terms of years, to expire. But any plan for accomplishing this object
must involve the necessity of borrowing money upon the security of the
episcopal estates, in order to compensate the Bishops for the loss of
the fines, which accrue to them under the present system, and
which form an important part of their incomes. The practical re.
stilt of such an Opel ation would be to transfer to the parties lending their
money that interest in the episcopal estates which is now possessed by
the lessees. We are not, therefore, prepared to recommend the adop-
tion of any general measure for allowing the leases for lives and terms
of years to expire; although, for the purpose of correcting, in some
degree, the inconvenience now arising from the great variations in the
annual amount of the episcopal incomes, see recommend that facilities
should be afforded for the conversion of leases for lives into leases for
terms of years" And now I have not one word more to say.—(Cheers.)
The gallery was then cleared for a division—
For the amendment by Mr. Liddell, that the surplus
be applied in extending the means of religious in
struction
254
Against it
265
Majority
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the House ad.
journed at One o'Clock.

THE HULL, LINCOLN, AND NOTTINGHAM
Itiltway.—This very important Railway, which will open to all the
counties of the North of Europe, a direct communication with Birming-
ham and the iron districts ; the West of England and the cloth districts;
Nottingham and the lace and hosiery districts ; Gloucestershire and the
pottery districts; besideslconnecting Hull to London by a journey of not
more than eight hours, is now, we learn, making rapid strides in public
favour ; and considering that it goes through the most level part of Eng-
land, and will require little cutting and no tunnelling, and consequently
be the cheapest railway ever constructed, we cannot wonder at it. It
will also be the best and speediest route from Scotland to London, and
from London to Scarborough, and the fashionable watering places of
the North. We are surprised that it was not completed immediately
after the Liverpool and Manchester line, for it would seem the palpa.
ble interest of the Eastern part of the Island to prevent all the com-
merce from being transferred to the West.
The Archbishop of York will give a grand enter-
tainment on the 16th instant at his residence in Grosvenor-square to
their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and the
Duchess of Gloucester. A large party has been invited to meet their
Royal Highnesses.

LONDON :
FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 4, 1838.

We have much pleasure in directing pnblic attention to
the full report in our columns of this day of the proceedings
at the great Anti-Slavery Meeting held at the Town-hall
of Devenport on Wednesday, which we received this
morning by express. We have likewise received a re-
port of the proceedings at the public meeting held on
the same subject, on Monday, at Exeter ; but owing
to the length of the debates in Parliament we are
necessarily constrained to postpone its publication
till to-morrow, or Monday. The Devonport meet-
ing was well attended by the Clergy of the stirs
rounding districts ; and, notwithstanding a very intem-
perate display of unnecessary zeal on the part of a partizan
of the Ministry, to justify the conduct of the Government
upon this question, we are truly happy to state that the
Meeting had the good sense not to suffer itself to view it
with the jaundiced eye of faction. The Rev. Mr. LUNEY,
who admitted the Toryism of his principles, solemnly dis-
claimed on the part of himself and friends, all political obi
jects, motives, or views in the proceedings of the meet-
ing : and manfully admitted, that much as he was
opposed in politics to Lord BROUGHAM and Mr.
O'CONNELL, he was willing to proclaim to all who heard
him, that had a majority of the pledged abolitionists per-
formed their duty with the zeal of the Noble Lord, and
the Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin, there
would be no further need of an Anti-Slavery Association.
The question, he contended, was not one of politics—it
was one of religion and justice, and as such only would he
regard it. Mr. G. TitomrsoN, who addressed the meeting
at great length, and in a strain of fervid and impassioned
eloquence, cordially responded to the view of the question
taken by the Rev. Gentleman and his friends--a declaration
which was received with loud cheers by both Reformers and
Conservatives. It is a gratifying thing to be able to point to
such a manifestation of unanimity of opinion upon a ques-
tion affecting the liberty of mankind. We cannot doubt,
much less despair, of the rapid progress in civilization of a
people, who, at the call of Justice and of Religion, can thus
fling aside the trammels imposed by conflicting political
factions, to struggle, side by side, for the triumph of a
cause sacred to both. The people of Deyonport in meeting
simply as men and Christians, to assist their fellow-
countrymen in giving freedom to the negro, have done
honour to themselves, and have set a worthy example to
others. We admit that in discussing the question of
the unconditional emancipation of the coloured race in
our Colonies, it is both allowable and proper to com-
ment upon the past conduct of the Government—
_

nay, we will go the length of saying that the recent Par-
liamentary proceedings of the Ministry with regard to this
question cannot be too strongly censured. But if Mi-
nisters have already repented—as we are assured
they have—of the error into which they were led,
there can be no discretion in the advocates of so
good a cause travelling out of the record wantonly
to attack them for a repented-of offence. The
speeches of Mr. WOOLCOMBE, the Rev. Mr. LUNEY, and
Mr. THOMPSON, will well repay the trouble of a
careful perusal. We omitted to mention that at the
Devonport meeting, thanks were voted to the Marquis of
SLIGO, for his Lordship'snoble and disinterested conduct, in
announcing the liberation of the negroeS upon his estates
on the Ist of August.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved last night for a Committee
to inquire into the mode of granting and renewing the
leases of Church property ; and, in doing it, gave an able
and temperate description of the manner in which that pro-
perty is now dilapidated. He was too anxious, in our
opinion, to vindicate himself from a charge of wishing to
deprive the Church of the least part of its present posses-
sions. Being thoroughly convinced that every sect has an
equally just claim to share religious instruction, and being
also convinced that the national funds would be in-
adequate to provide religious instruction for all, in the
same ratio as it is now provided for a favoured sect,
we see no possible way of doing justice to all classes but
to strip the Church of some of its possessions. That,
however, is not the view taken by her MAJESTY'S Mi-
nisters, who are grossly and continually calumniated by
those Episcopalians, to whom they have shown themselves
the best friends. They only propose now to inquire into
the methods of leasing Church lands, with a view to future
legislation. They do not, however, disguise their wish, if
the inquiry should show that a greater income than at pre-
sent may be obtained from Church lands, to appropriate
the increase to the fabrics of the Church, so that
Church-rates may be abolished. If the inquiry
turn out as they expect, and they be in office
next year, there is a chance that they will propose
a measure to get rid of Church-rates ; but if circumstances
remain as they now are—if no moral thunder shall before
that time once more rouse the trembling Peers and the
frightened Bishops to a sense of justice—it is quite certain
that such a measure will not then receive the consent of the
Peers. For the Dissenters, then, it is plain, though their
property, as Mr. PEASE last night showed, is continually
wasted and spoiled to provide the luxuries of worship for
the rich members of the favoured sect, there is not the
smallest hope of redress. Till time bring forth another
revolution—the offspring perhaps of a bad harvest—
they have not the slightest chance of obtaining
justice from the Parliament. Its avowed creed, as
far as the Church is concerned, is gross partiality,
and gross injustice. Small as was the step which Lord
JOHN RUSSELL last night proposed to take towards
right, and distant as the prospect is, that he will ever reach
it, even that was resisted by a phalanx almost equal to the
number of his supporters. 241 Members out of 518,
voted against all inquiry into Church leases, being firmly
resolved, under the influences of their teachers, the clergy, to
continue oppression, if they can to the end of time. The
first motion for the Committee was carried, by a poor
majority of 36. Mr. LIDDELL then made a motion,
increase
of object of which was, to keep all the
of Church revenue, should any be created, in the hands of
the Clergy of the favoured sect, so that Church-rates shall
never be abolished ; and this motion was only lost by 11.
In fact, therefore, 265 Members, out of 519, are resolved
that the Dissenters shall have no relief, and that every six-
pence which the State can collect, by force or guile, for
the religious instruction of the people, shall for ever go to
feed the Clergy of the favoured sect. The names of those
Members who first voted for the inquiry, and afterwards for
giving the surplus, if any, to the Established Clergy, as far
as we can ascertain, were Sir C. COOTS, Lord ELLIOT,
Mr. GREEN, Mr. GRANVILLE HARCOURT, Mr. HEATH-
COTE, (Lincoln), Mr. INGHAM, Mr. DALLY KNIGHT,
Sir CHARLES LEMON, Mr. POSEY, Mr. SLANEY, Sir H.
VERNEY, and Mr. BARING WALL. Mr. LONG seems to
to have been absent on the second division. The result of
the debate. and the sentiments avowed by the several
speakers, fill us with despair. Not that we have the least
apprehension or the least doubt that justice will ultimately
prevail;
but we dread lest the Legislature, by continually out-
raging the moral feelings of large classes of the people,
should bring about its own destruction amidst convulsions
and bloodshed.

The Earl of RIPON in moving, last night, for an account
of the expences of the Commission to Malta, made what
he intended to be a very severe attack upon her MAJES-
TY'S Ministers. We cannot congratulate the Noble Earl
on his success ; a more feeble attempt to be forcible never
was made, even bythe Earl of RIPON. The main delinquency
charged upon the Government by their former associate
was their utter disregard of economy, in throwing away
6,000/. on a Commission sent out to inquire into the com-
plaints of the Maltese, when such an inquiry could
have been conducted at home, at a much less cost ;
and this expenditure too, at a moment when a
great deficiency in the revenue, slack trade, and di-
minishing exports, show that all ;s going to wreck and