The Sun.
London, England, 1836-04-23 00:00:00

LONDON CORPORATION.

Mr. WILLIAMS asked whetheritWas the intention of the
Government to introduce any Bill on the subject of the Lon-
don Corporation during the present Session? There was a
very strong feeling- is the City with regard to this matter.
He begged to assure the Noble Lord that there was no cor-
poration required reform more than the Corporation of London.
The SPEAKER reminded the Hon. Member that he rose
to ask a question—he should therefore confine himself to that
point.

Mr. WILLIAMS would then ask the Noble Lord why the
Report, respecting the Corporation of the City of London,
was not laid on the table of the House ?

Lord J. RUSSELL replied iCiarthere were some points
yet under consideration. He begged to 'state that no Bill
must be introduced with respect to the Corporation of the City
of London until he bad ample time to consider the report.
Mr. BLACKBURNE said if the Noble Lord could spare
a certain legal gentleman for two or three hours a day, the la-
bours of the Commissioners would doubtless be soon brought
to a close.—(A laugh.)

TITHES (IRELAND.)
Sir R. PEEL—As the Noble Lord (J. Russell) had inti-
mated that the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland would
bring forward resolutions on the subject of Irish Tithes on
Monday night, it would be a matter of general convenience
to know whether the resolutions which he was to move would
involve the principle of appropriation, or any question which
which was likely to be contested. If they were merely matters
of form, then nothing more need be said, but if the resolutions
involved any contested principle, they should have some pre-
vious intimation of what the resolutions were.—( Hear, hear.)
It was now Friday, and they might be called upon to confirm•
some important principle on Monday.
Lord MORPETH would perhaps be able to satisfy the
Right Hon. Baronet, by reading his resolutions. They were
to commute tithes to a rent charge payable by the owners of
land, and to make a further provision for the better regula-
tion of ecclesiastical duties and revenues.
Lord J. RUSSELL—The object was not the affirmance
of any particular principle ; but if there was anything objec-
tionable in the words used, others could be framed to the Same
esgct•

T 1114.

14Ni...ROBEWTN1111., did not think there, was anything
olojectionable in these resolutions,
HAN* P4,s IN-o;ed ;113000.P:0On sol9:til
Jl\e,.reconiMen4aticins /AO ‘cm!luatrc-
-I.lCclgl4C'?9lrifb .1004ii.e4 pciwre into the
1ar.43*4;)i.e6. , Metropolitan Police:—( Hear, hear.)
hat yominittee had prepared specific resolutions which
were tinanimonsl' agreed tO and wliich contained.
I)ol,icelifor9E,qi c.t
A,V,ggPsitOrlS ,for tr,nproyement,,of the
ki.p same tlibe a 'tly.sAtt_i dr public ecOnoriiy. Ile With!: t 8
kiloW whether these suggestions were likely to be acted upon;
or adopted ?
Lord JO Ri's;RU,AEji;l:,liad h4dhe
,i-e,v6PlMr4lMst
Pl 4„ b'efOß4 144 riot ciin3.;lnbc,_ of the
:erriely 05 acceding to them. On the contrary, some of
them miglit, if acted upon, produce inconvenience. The
public, he believed, had every reason to be satisfied with the
management of the Metropolitan Police force ; but, at the same
time, he thought there were some parts of the Report de-
serving of consideration.
' - '

Sir-R. PEEL hoped that the Noble Lord would take into
consideration the position of the Chief Commissioners of Police.
When he (Sir R. Peel) instituted the Police as an experiment,
he limited -the salaries of the chief officers to a very low
amount, expressly on account of its being an experiment.
These two gentlemen, by their unabated activity and zeal,
--( Hear, hear)—by their constant attention to their duties,
had discharged the duties Which were intended to devolve
upon three Commissioners. , They had acted with perfect
harmony and good understanding, put he must say that
the labor they had to perform was extremely severe. Consider-
ing the liberality of the view taken with respect to the salaries
of the Chief Commissioners in Ireland, and the limited allow-
ance that was given to these officers, and the high character
of the officers themselves, he felt that they bad the strongest
claims on Parliament.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")-_
He was bound to bear this testimony, because when the expe-
riment was in its infancy, it was he who purposely limited their
salaries; and also the number of the appointments. He did
not ask the Noble Lord to give an opinion at present, but he
hoped that the position of the Chief Commissioners would be
taken into consideration.

Mr. D. W. HARVEY seeing the Solicitor-General in his
place, wished to know whether it was his intention to intro-
duce any Bill for the purpose of regulating the admission of
persons seeking to become students-at• law and called to
the bar.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL stated that he had pre-
pared a Bill upon the subject ; but that in doing so, he doubted
whether any alteration should be made without an order of
the Judges.
IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL.

Mr. HUME wished to know from the Attorney-General
whether there was any probability of the Imprisonment for
Debt Bill being proceeded with this Session.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that a Bill upon the
subject would be introduced forthwith by the Lord Chancellor
in the other House.

Mr. LUSHINGTON gave notice that he would then move
a resolution relative to the translation of Bishops from one See
to another.

CARLOW AFFAIR.

Mr. Sergeant WILDE made a few observations in expla-
nation of what had fallen from him last night, the purport of
which we could not catch.

The SPEAKER having read the resolutions and amend-
ments,
Sir F. POLLOCK said, it was not without reason when
the House did him and his Hon. and Learned Friend the
honour to appoint them nominees in the enquiry which took
place that it prescribed certain limits, and forbade them to
vote upon the question. The object of this limitation was
quite intelligible. It was to give to the transaction a
judicial character, and to give him and his Hon. and Learned
Friend an unencumbered opportunity of discharging their
duties. The decision was a wise and correct one, and if
there was any doubt of its wisdom and correctness, that
doubt would be removed by some expressions which had
last night fallen from his Hon. and Learned Friend—when
he heard his Hon. and Learned Friend speak of Mr. O'Con-
nell as his client, and stated that he had kept, back certain
documents until he ascertained whether they would mate for
or against that Gentleman.—( Loud Cheers.) The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had also spoken of having " laid a trap
for the other side." Now to any one who might have enter-
tained a doubt of the propriety with which the House
proceeded, these admissions fully proved that the decision
which it had come to repecting him and his Learned Friend was
necessary to support the dignity of the House and the charac-
ter of the proccedings.—( Hear, hear.) He was prevented
from voting on the Committee, and he felt that the part he had
taken in the transaction had debarred him from voting on the
present occasion also.—( Hear.) When he was called upon
to state the charges against the Hon. and Learned Member
for Dublin—and he gave those Hon. Members who had thus
called on him full credit for she purity of their motives he ac-
quitted them of any intention to limit the inquiry by the tram-
mels of an indictment; but when called upon to make a specific
charge, he objected to do so on two grounds—first, he had no
information on the subject, except that which he possessed in
general with other Hon.' Members; and next, it was not his
intention to take upon himself the character of a public accuser,
but rather to assist as much as in him lay in a difficult inquiry.
He endeavoured to procure information from every person who
seemed likely to be possessed of it; but in this he failed, for
he could procure none whatever. Mr. Raphael refused to be
seen or to be spoken with ; and though that gentleman's at-
torney had promised information when he heard of Mr. Ra-
pbael's refusal he went back, and said, that, as agent to that
gentleman, he felt bound not to give the required information.
As to Mr. Vigors, be had not seen that gentleman up to the
period of the inquiry ; and the only information which he had
to go upon was that furnished by the speech of his Hon.
and Learned Friend the Member for Bradford in moving for
the Committee. Witnesses were called ; and it was proposed
to him to cross-examine them; but this he declined to do.
He did not, as his Hon. and Learned Friend stated, ask for
Mr. O'Connell's banking-book ;he merely asked the banker
what was the state of Mr. O'Connell's account with him at
that moment. Several Members were reluctant to have any
inquiries made into a gentleman's private accounts. He con-
curred entirely in the delicacy and justness of such a senti-
ment, and nothing but a sense of public duty could induce
him to put the question. He confined himself, however, to
the question, and did not ask to see the banking-book. His
object in putting the question was, that the Committee might
see how the money which had been advanced had been applied,
and to know whether Mr. O'Connell had overdrawn.—( Hear,
hear.) Mr. O'Connell himself gave in the banking-book,
which he said any one was at liberty to see. It was handed
to him ( Sir F. Pollock) to be seen by him and his agent, but
he did not show it to the agent. He merely looked himself
to ascertain whether Mr. O'Connell had overdrawn. As Mr.
O'Connell had shown the payment of the whole money, with
the discount, it did not become him (Sir F. Pollock) to fol-
low up that portion of the inquiry, and fasten on a minor
point of the case.—( Hear, hear, hear.) After examining a
variety of witnesses, his Hon. and Learned Friend at last
put Mr. O'Connell in the chair, for the purpose of being
examined ; but he ( Sir F. Pollock) declined to put a
single question to that gentleman. It might be that he had
not given full satisfaction by abstaining from doing so, but
when it was admitted that a trap had been laid for him, ho
confessed he did not regret the course which he had pursued
on the occasion.—(Cheers.) Since the inquiry, he (Sir F. I
Pollock) had learned that there was a case to be made on the
subject of the baronetcy, and that if Mr. O'Connell had been
examined, it would have come out. He regretted that this
had not been used to bait the " trap." With regard to Mr.
O'Connell, he admitted in the fullest extent that that Gentle-
man was completely relieved from any charge of pecuniary cor-
ruption—that he had paid over all the moneys which he had
received.—( Hear, hear.) He admitted this in the fullest ex-
tent, but to show that there was a corrupt bargain, he would
refer to the terms of the agreement, which were so often quo-
ted, to show that there was a specific agreement, and an act
of traffic for the sale and purchase of a seat in that House—a
traffic solemnly and deliberately entered into, and absolutely
fulfilled—not surely in compliance with the regulations of the
House, but in positive contravention of its enactments. This
part of the contract, and the terms in which it was expressed,
could be best understood from the following letter, which the
Member for Dublin, in the fulness of his zeal for purity of
election, and his abhorrence of anything like corruption, had
deliberately addressed to Mr. Raphael. [The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman theniread Mr. O'Connell's letter to Mr. It aphael. )
Now, he would put it to the deliberate judgment, to the
common candour, and the integrity of the House, if this stipu-
lation, this engagement, was not as deliberate, as solid, and as
profligate an act of traffic for corrupt purposes, to secure a
seat in Parliament for another, as ever was unfolded to the
House from the foul pages of boroughmongering registry ?
( Loud cheers.) Was there any honest man in that House—
any constitutional lawyer—who would have the face to say
that it was not a vile traffic and an outrageous infringement on
the prerogatives, on the honour, and the rights of Parlia-
ment ?—( Cheers.) It was a gross breach of the privileges of
the House, he would again repeat ; arid he defied any abettor
of the Hon. Member to stand up and attempt to prove the
contrary.—( Cheers.) Well, then, as to the resolutions of the
committee, he would say one word on that head. He could
well understand that the Members of the Committee, having
submitted to them a specific question, and not wishing to
travel beyond the precise line of what they conceived their
duty, should discard the other constitutional topics involved in
the inquiry submitted to them, and given a report so limited
in its nature.—( Cheers.) As they thought that there was no
direct evidence of the proof of personal corruption having
been established against Mr. O'Connell, they very probably
did not conceive it their duty to ravel into extraneous topics,
such as the constitutional character of the transaction.—
(Continued cheering.) But when the case was brought in all
its bearings before Parliament—when it was used as the sub-
ject of a deep and solemn investigation—then the affair as-
sumed a new complexion—( Hear, hear)— and the House was
bound to decide on the case as a whole. As proof of the
opinion that every Hon. Member of that House should enter-
tain of the present proposal few purchasing a seat, and the
(Cheers)—and of the just indignation that should be enter-
tainedconsent to sell it (for was it not buying and selling?—
by every man who did not think px:rity of election in
these reforming times a fraud and a mocke;v—(Cheers and
laughter)—he would quote a somewhat pasraiicl case—one
that he had only seen that day, and one that occurres.l4 in ,t,hide
old days of profligate Toryism—(Laughter)—and he v/0-
--
quote it to show how even Tories could repel with scorn a
proposal of corrupt vending of a scat, and to show, too, that
the freedom of election, the rights of the electors and the
elected, were not then so much the subject of contemptuous
slight. The document he referred to was to be found in
page 566 of the journals of the House, referring to a
transaction that took place in Oxford, on the 15th of May,
the mayor and cot
1766. As would be seen, wed. corruptly
• •