The Sun.
London, England, 1822-07-02 00:00:00

evervices, the actual sum: he calcUlated would be '51,119,000
This deducted from - - - - 54,252,000
Left a surplus of - - 3,133,000
But this was taking .a very unfair view of the subject, be-
cause if they had in consideration the saving that would ac-
crue from the country being relieved-from the Five per Cents.
the result would be very different from that at which they
would arrive from calculating the expenditure according to
the charge which the country bad to bear in January, 1822,
There would be a saving of 700,000/. from that source, and a
further saving of 1,200,000/. from the operation of the Com-
missioners for the payment of the Army and Navy pensions...—
These added to the sum which he had already mentioned made
a clear surplus somewhat exceeding five millions. That he
might not be mistaken, he would state to the House what he
calculated as the prospective estimate of the income, for the
year ending January 5, 1824. He would take the customs for
tareat Britain the. same asin 1822 - - 10,700,000
For Ireland - t- - - - - 1,155,000
that being also the same as last year. Estimating the produce
of the Excise, and considering the effect of the repeal of taxes,
he would take its amount at a million under the present year,
25,000,000
The Stamps - . - 6,600,000
' Post-office - - 1,300,000
Assessed Taxes - - - - 7,300,000
And with the probable amount of old stores, &c. he would as-
sume the total income of the country for the year ending the
'sth of January, 1824, to be 51,600,0001. To which adding the
advances to be made by the Commissioners for the payment of
naval and military pensions and other sourcesaif revenue, there
would be 4,870,0001. ; making the total ,income amount to
56,470,0001, He then set against this the probable charge for
the unfunded debt, the miscellaneous charges on the Consoli-
dated Fund, the Army Estimates, stated. at - - 7,700,000
The Navy - - 5,500,000
The Ordnance 1,200,000
'Miscellaneous - - - - a 1,500,000
Amounting in the whole to more than - - - 50,000,000
This deducted frpm the estimated income would leave a sur-
plus of 6,000m01. Taking then the two years together, the
clear sum applicable' to the reduction of the Debt, would ex-
ceed 10,000,0001. He therefore hoped that he might congra-
tulate the House on having realized the prospects held out to
the House by his Noble Friend in the early part of the Session,
of gaining in the course of this year a clear. Sinking Fund of
5,000,0001. Though it should not amount precisely to that sum
in the course of the present year, he thought ie had proved that
on the most moderate calculation they might expect to realize
in the course of this and the next year a clear surplus of.
10,000,0001. always bearing in mind the operation of the mea-
sure for the payment of the Naval and .31ilitary Pensions.
He had already touched upon thee circumstance of the re-
duction of the Five per Cents. He could not refrain from
again calling the attention of the Committee to an arrange,
merit so satisfactory and' beneficial to the country. He
doubted if any man could have ventured to hope that a
measure of such magnitude could have - been carried into
effect with so much ease; and with such general acquies-
cence. From every thing which they had experienced, it
would have been expected that the difficulties in the
way would have been found much greater. The manner
in which the measure had been carried into execution
proved, if such proof had been wanted, to foreign nations and
to ourselves, the solidity of our credit and the immense ex-
-tent of our resources. It had been one objection to that ar-
rangement that it was likely to be injurious to the stockholder.
This opinion was not borne out by the result. ' The funds were
at this moment considerably higher than they were when this
measure was proposed. Instead then of the holder of the five
per cents. having any ground of complaint, they had a right to
say that he had profited to the full extent upon which he could
have calculated. The beneficial arrangement, arising out of the
Resolution of that House to support public credit, had already
introdoced other advantages. The Resolution lately come to
by the Bank fbr discounting at four per cent. was one of them.
that circumstance could not have been expected to take place
iiad, not Parliament led the way, by setting the example of
reducing the'rate of interest. This came in aid of the reso-
-1'; Lion of Parliament to support public credit, and he knew of
ro circumstance more likely to give effectual relief to the
'public than the resolution which had been so adopted by the
.Bank. He had heard that day of a singular fact growing
out of that resolution: A sale had taken place under an
,order of the Court of Chancery. It brought a much larger
sum than was expected, and upon the Solicitor who purchased
it being asked how he came to give so much, his reply was,
that he had given 50001. more than he originally intended to
offer in consequence of the reduction of interest by the Bank.
lie considered this a most gratifying fact, and could not but
-hope that the transaction referred to would prove the prelude
to many others of the same kind. There were those who en-
tertained the opinion that a forced operation for the reduc-
etion of the interest of 'money would be advantageous; but to
acting on such a plan, he for one was averse. He could only,
approve of regulating the interest of money by means previous-
ly known to out laws. The best thing they could do was, to
,adhere to the old regulation, and for any thing further than
that which had' been ahead.), sanctioned by the House, he could
-mot give his vote. He did not know that it was necessary for
him to occupy more of their time; but, if any circumstance
should call for further explanation than he had given-, he should
be Happy •to afford it. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded
by moving his first Resolution, which was—That a sum of
7,600,0001. should be granted for the service of the year.
Mr. DIABERLY said, that he laboured tinder great disad-
-vantage in following the alight lion. Gentleman, not having
before him those papers necessary to his understanding fully
'the subject. He had understood the Right Hon. Gentleman
sufficiently however, to perceive that the sinking fund was
put forward by him as what he might call the hocus porus of the
year. lie had taken from that fund, and added to it in such a
mariner, that it was impossible to make the true state of it at all
'intelligible, without a distinct discussion with regard to it. The
-next point was the debt of the East India Company, upon
which topic he must say, that he found some difficulty in com-
prehending the sort of liquidation that had been made. He
was sorry that it had been pressed to a settlement ; for it now
-appeared that we were debtors to the Company, and at all
events we were minus, as regarded that Company, 1,300,0001.
—The Right Hon. Gentleman then went to the Finances of
1823, and from this part of his statement, the House and the
country had learned that the Right Hon. Gentleman and his
Colleagues had come to the end of their reductions of the pub-
lic
expenditure. For in his estimate of the year 1823, he took
all the estimates for the present year at the same amount for.
the next. It appeared plainly, therefore, that they had come
•to the end of their. savings. But he should say, that if they
were to have six millions of Sinking Fund next year, at this
.eate, they ought to have nine and ten millions if those reduc-
tions were made which ought to be made. The Noble Marquis
opposite, whore he chould call the Finance Minister, informed
them at the commencement 'of the Session, that he grounded
all his measures upon the maintenance of public credit, and
that upon that principle, no reduction of taxation could be
made, but what was aflbrded by the reduction of the Five
par Cents. Previously to this, however, he • had stated, that
no reduction of taxation was to be made, and that it would
afford no relief if it were made. The House had all heard
of a speech, delivered no matter where, which stated that
if the farmer were acquainted with the first principles of poli-
tical economy, he would know that the reduction of taxation
would afford him no relief—that the principles of nature, if left
to fructify, would restore things to their proper state; • but that
any advantage accruing to the farmer from a remission of
;.taxes, would be taken from him by the landlord. This speech
was made in February, and he contended that the principles
there laid down "were entirely departed from in the subsequent
financial operations' of the Noble Marquis. The annuity Plan
was a complete violation of the principle of the Sinking Fund,
by placing a certain 'portion of debt upon posterity, to re-
lieve the present generation. The way that he (Mr. Ma_
Nerdy) should have recommended them to reduce taxation,
would have been by reducing the whole expenditure of the
country. The Committee of Finance of 1817 had' declared, as
their deliberate opinion, that the charge of the. Army, Navy,
Ordnance, and 'Miscellaneous Services, should not for the fu-
ture exceed 17,350,0001. Since that year, however, these services
had regularly -exceeded that, and the total excess had been
6,190,0001. This year there was only a decrease of 800:0001.
as compared with the last. He was sure that if the Committee
of 1817 could have foreseen that a reduction of 30 per cent. in
all articles would take place, they would have made the Esti-
mates much lower. No saving, therefore, had in 'fact been
made on this head, as would appear by their comparing the
present Estimates thus reduced with the amount which the
Committee of Finance had stated the Estimates at, which he
contended was the proper test by, which to judge of the apparent
reduction. Gob ernment should have reformed abuses, and
particularly have pruned away the excrescent abuses of the
mode of collecting the Revenue. ',Co give the Hue an idea
of this, he would state a few facts. The revenue of the Excise
amounted to thirty millions, and the charge for collection was
1,420,0001. being at the rate of 41. 19s. per cent. The Customs
produced soMewhat less than 13 millions, -and the expense of
collection was 1;479,000L being at the rate of 13 per cent. He
begged the House to look at this remarkable difference—the
lesser suyi requiring the larger amount for collection. This
surely demanded investigation. He should ,next go to the
Hackney-coaches, which produced 26,0001, the expense of
collection was four thousand pounds. The Hawkers and
Pedlars' duty, yielding 31,0001. cost 60001. to collect,
being at the average rate for the two last mentioned of

twenty-two per cent. These were the taxes they ought to re-
peal, which cost so much for collection. With regard to Ire-
land, the same exorbitant rate wits apparent. The Custonis
and Excise averaged twenty-two per cent. for collection.
surely the House would not tolerate the continuance of such