The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-06 00:00:00

was a matter which ought to be treated with temper and
moderation, for it was a question of too much importance
l'or party spirit to be mixed up with it. His objection
was to the unnecessary extent of this Bill. It was said
that the people were dissatisfied with the House—but the
act was, that Hon. Gentlemen opposite first cast obloquy
on the House, and then asserted that the people were dis-
satisfied with it. Those who said that this House was
unworthy the confidence of the people, afforded in their
two persons a full contradiction to that statement. A
Noble Lord opposite haul been asked whether this measure
.Mould benefit the mass of the people, and whether it would
:ever the price of provisions? and he answered that the
puesrion was irrelevant. He stated that it would be a
more perfect theory of representation. He (Sir G. Mur-
-.v) did not rate that advantage very highly. That Noble
seurd was somewhat in that respect like the Hon. and
Learned Member for Kerry, who, after drawing a fright-
ul picture of the misery of Ireland, finished by saying
es should support the repeal of the Union. No prac-
tical evils were shown to exist, nor any indisposition of
the House to remedy them if they did. As lie was op-
posed to the repeal of the Union, because it would lead to
the dismemberment of the empire, so he was opposed to
dtis measure, as he believed it would destroy the Constitu-
tion.—(Hear.) He should oppose the first, even if the
lion. and Learned Member for Kerry could dissolve the
Parliament, and bring over the whole of the Irish Alern
hers pledged to vote for the repeal ; lie should pursue the
same course on the Reform question. It was said that
this measure would secure the stability of the throne. He
believed that it would shake the Monarchy to its founda-
tion. It was said that it would strengthen the authority
of Parliament ; he believed it would be an effectual instru-
ment in the bands of the democracy, and would only em-
barrass the Griuvernment. Ministers might say they did
not apprehend this. True ; their system was one of citri-
c ssion, and so they obtained popular favour; but by con-
ceding this, they would only increase the demand on them.
—(Hear.) It was said the country had been improved
by progressive changes. He agreed that it had, but then
these changes were gradual, and not sweeping, and there-
fore he should oppose this, as he thought these changes
night only to be gradual. The Speech from the Throne
had recommended them to legislate upon acknowledged
principles. He wished them to be defined. He believed
that one of them was the existence of three separate parts
of the Legislature, so blended, that while each acted as a
check, it acted at the same time as a support to the other.
It was to this blending that we owed the blessings of this
country, and he believed these blessings might be conti-
nued without risking this great and dangerous innovation
When, by the operation of this Bill, the Monarchy should
be left alone and unsupported, and the House of Lords
would have to struggle for the maintenance of its privi-
leges, with no influence beyond its own decisions,—if,
under such circumstances, the House of Commons should
he employed in extending the principles of democracy,
lie (Sir George Murray) thought that both in theory
and practice the Constitution of England would be effec-
tually destroyed.—(Cheering.) He could see nothing in
the some extended constituency of 101. householders to be
enfranchised by the Bill which was in any way calculated
to give the House a greater power or disposition to legis-
late for the benefit of the whole community than the pre-
sent House of Commons possessed.—(Cheers.) In an-
swer to his Hon. and Gall unt Friend, the Noble Lord
opposite had said, that under this Bill, introduced by the
Noble Lord, the Colonies would be as effectually repre-
sented as if they sent to the House representatives directly
chosen by themselves. Would the Noble Lord deny that,
in that argument, he was supporting the principle of
virtual representation.—(Cheers.) In support of that
argument of the Nettle Lord, it had been said that the Co-
lonies would derive no advantage from choosing such a
representative as Sir John Malcolm, acquainted with their
circumstances, their interests, and wants, because all the
knowledge of that learned person, respecting them, was
contained in his books.—(Hear, and " a laugh.") It
had been said that when his Majesty's Ministers had re-
solved that a Reform of the representation was necessary,
they were bound to go the whole extent of this Bill, in
order that the question might be set at rest, that
there might remain nothing more to be demanded.—
But, he asked. would the Bid bring us to that ulti-
mate point.---(Cheers.) For this part he thought that
it would not, but that they would still be called on to
contest still further demands.—(Loud cheers.) He would
adtfit that, in one of the remarks of the Noble Lord,
lie thought lie saw something like arrogance.--(Cheers.)
Something, at least, which did not show good sense or
sound judgment.—(Cheers.) He alluded to the reference
made by the Noble Lord to the former times of trouble
and danger; and he would confess that he, for one, felt far
from gratified at the Noble Lord's allusion to the disasters
of his country.—(Great cheering.) He was sure, how-
'ever, that the Noble Lord would not be the Crom-
well of that Revolution, which his measure of Reform was
preparing for his countrymen.—(Repeated cheering.) He
thought, indeed, that the Cromwell of that coming period,
be he who he may—(Cheers)—was, at this moment, exult-
ing in the progress of the Noble Lard's Reform plans.—
(Renewed cheers.) Whoever that individual might be,
he was, perhaps at that motnent, saying, in the words of
Cromwell and of the Noble Lord, "The Lord bath de-
livered them into my bands."—(Great einem ing.) Who-
ever he might be that, should personate that character—
(Herr, heir)—he would not appear upon the stage until
the fifth act of the drains. When the fabric of the Con-
stittitirm should have been pulled down, and its materials
scattered and broken, that person would probably attempt
to form a new House of Commons, and he would do so,
with this condition, that no Member should enter
it who was not prepared to act upon the dictation
of the Usurper:—(Cheers.) For they might depend
upon this, that despotism had always the same character,
whether it was exercised by an individual or by
an agitated populace..--(Chners.) If that individual
would allow a House of Lords to exist, be would take care
at least that a person should preside there who could find
an opportunity to administer to the Members of that House
Lords,
" A Friendly Advice."—(Cheers.) What might be the
character
he (Sir G. Murray)
would
say.undertakeoto But of this he was con-
fident, that, in the present House of Lords, there was too
much magnanimity to allow its determinations to be go-
n o
to f s such a House of
yenned by an influence so mean.—(Cheers.) Honouring
that House—not merely from respect to the individuals
of whom it was composed, but on higher grounds—for
its utility to the country—.for its support of the liberties oh
the people—lie was confident that 'it could not be in-
fluenced to abandon its duty by the mean advice which
had been given to it.—(Cheers.) He would not forget
that, at the commencement of his address, he ha I pledged
himself to the House that he would not long occupy its
time ; and be should therefore abstain front other obser-
vations which he should have thought it his duty to offer
were he addressing them at an earlier hour. He con-
eluded by assuring them that he opposed the Bill; not
through prejudice or party feeling, nor through dislike to
moderate Reform, hut because it prepared the way to those
dangerous revolutionary measures by which be saw other
nations so much shaken.—(lmmense cheering.)
Colonel SIBTHORPE then moved that the debate
should be adjourned to Thursday.
When the laughter, cheers, cries of " divide," and
" Friday," subsided,
The SPEAKER. said —Who seconds the motion?
Mr. HUME moved that the debate should be adjourned
to this day.
Lord ALTIIORP had no objection that the debate
should be then adjourned to this day, on account of the
lateness of the hour, and be thought that the discussion
might be gone through at the next fleeting of the House.
But he thought a longer postponement, under all the cit.-
entinstances, indecorous.—(Hear.)
Colonel SIBTHORPE (amid loud cries of question)
said that the interval of a day was necessary for the con-
sideration of the arguments which had been adduced ; but,
as the House seemed averse to the postponement, he would
withdraw his motion.—(Hear.)
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at Two o'clock.

A CHANGE IN THE BREED.—Fifty years
ago the Whigs were Fox-hounds—now they are Grey-
hounds.—New Sporting Magazine.
PORTRAIT OF T. C. GRATTAN, ESQ.--
Tue Monthly Magazine, for July, contains, among
various other interesting Papers—l . . Living Literary Cha-
racters, No. VII. The Author of High-Ways and Bye-
Ways, (with a fine Likeness, engraved on steel, by Thomp-
son)-2. The Irish Elections-3. On the Choirs Mur-
bus, and on the probability of its visiting the British Islands
by Davin Uwins, M.D.-4. Recollections of Mrs. Siddons--
.5. The Assembling of Pat liament :—the Prospects of Par-
ties ;lithe New Reform Bill, &c.-6. The. Convict, by L.
E. L.-7. The Irish Church Establishment-8. My
Pension, by Thomas Haynesßayley-9. The Quarantine,
by the Author of '` Constantinople in 1828"--10. .The
Months, h Horace Smith-11. Sketches of the English
Bar—Sir Charles Wetherall-12. Sonnet, by William
Y
Wordsworth-13. First and Sccond Thoughts—l 4. The
Poet's Old Age—ls. Paganini---16. Monthly Commen-
tary :—Alarming Progress .of Intelligence ; Quackery ;
c.• &
State 111axims;. Beauties of British Justice;
A Curiosity in Malignity. &