The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-29 00:00:00

ties into the debate. lie considered that in fairness the
parochial chapelry of Clitherne ought to be added to the
borough, for the purposes of the Bill, and the population
would then amount to upwards of 4,000.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that it appeared by the popu-
lation returns that the borough contained no more than
3,213 inhabitants ; and he thought it would he absurd to
add to the borough certain townships which really had no
connection with it.—(Hear, hear.) An Hon. and
Learned Gentleman on the other side of the House had
employed harsh words against the members of his Ma-
jesty's Government. He had endeavoured by some sort
of quibble or other, to show that certain boroughs ought to
have been put in the disfranchising schedules, which it
was clear, from the obvious meaning of the rules of the
Bill, never could be included.—(Hear, hear.) The lion.
and Learned Gentleman seemed to think by appealing to
the country that his arguments would be approved cf by
the people, but that appeal would be attended with a very
different effect from what the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man supposed.—(Hear, bear.) The country would see
through his arguments—(Hear, hear)—the country would
see that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's play upon
words, and his endeavours to make distinctions where
there was really no difference, were merely attempts to
gain time.—(Cheers.) The common sense of the country
would distinguish between the conduct of those who is
honestly persisting in the Reform measure as it was ori-
ginally formed, and the course of proceeding adopted by
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.—(Cheers.)
Sir C. WETHERELL said, that it appeared to him
that the Hon. Secretary for Ireland had assumed a tone
nod a station in that House far above what properly be-
longed to him.—(Loud cries of " No,"and cheers.) lie
had assumed a vigour beyond himself—(" No," and hear)
--but if the Hon. Secretary could sustain that station, and
if the Noble Lord (Russell) could find success in dealing
out censures on those opposed to him, then let them du
so. The lion. Secretary for Ireland had addressed to him
(Sir C. Wetherell) rather free-spoken terms. He had
usurped a station beyond his power to sustain.—(Loud
cries of "No," and cheers.) Was the Hon. Secretary
aware of the terms which he had used towards him—(Sir
C. Wetherell?) Perhaps the Hon. Secretary had for-
gotten thein.—(" Question.") He would tell Hon.
Members who cried out " question," that he would allow
no man to attack him without making a defence.—( Hear.)
The Hon. Secretary for Ireland, he conceived, had ex-
hibited a want of temper in the discussion, and bad put
him in mind of Mr. Burke's observation, that new power,
anti in new hands, was apt to be abused.—(Bear, hear.)
But he begged leave to inform the Hon. Secretary, who
had lately become one of the Cabinet Ministers, that with
his duty as Minister was not combined censorship over the
Members of that Rause.—(Bear.) lie remembered that
the First Lord of the Admiralty had, on one occasion, de-
signated a certain officer in that House by the title of iljox
flagellifer. NOw he told the Hon. Secretary for Ireland, that
if he desired to be a flagellifer, he must first possess the
requisite strength.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Secretary,
who had not answered one of the arguments which had
been brought forward, might possess a good deal of the
disposition of a flagellifer, yet he did not think that the
lion. Secretary was an Ajax.—(Cheers.) He hoped,
therefore, that while tie Bill was being discussed, the
Hon. Secretary would hang up his whip-cord, and that
the Noble Lord would restrain his dull censures, for do
what they might, they would not impede him from dis-
charging his duty.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord (Russell)
had taunted him with an appeal to the people; but he did
not believe that the people would taunt him for performing
his duty.—(Cheers : considerable laughter was occasioned
by the vehement and frequent cries of " bear" from an
Hors. Member on the Ministerial side.) The Noble Lord
had presumed to say that be (Sir C. Wetherell) had ad-
duced arguments merely for the purpose of delay. Ile
called upon the Noble Lord to point out any one
single instance in which be had so acted. He
had never originated any discussion himself ; and had
only taken part in those which had been introduced by
others.—(Hear.) Ile, therefore, was a candidate for the
good opinion of the people, but not like the Noble Lord,
for democratic popularity.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir G. MURRAY said that in other places the parish
bad been added to the borough, and he saw no reason why,
in the present case, the chapelry might not be added to
Clitheroe, in place of the parish.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he was unwilling to allude to the discussion which had pre-
ceded
the observations mails by the Gallant Officer (Sir
G. Murray); but he must state his opinion that the esti-
mation of the talents of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Stanley)
would not depend on the fiat of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) It did not appear to him
that his Hon. Friend had lost his temper—(Hear, hear)
—and as for strong language, he believed that no man
made use of stronger language than the Hon. and Learned
Member himself.—(Hear, hear.) He really thought that
the Hon. and Learned Member would be the last man
to object to strong expressions, if he only recollected the
language which he had employed previous t' the Hon.
Secretary for Ireland rising to speak.--(Hear, bear.)
With respect to the borough of Clitheroe, it was marked
in the population returns as containing a certain amount
of inhabitants ; and lie did not think that the House
would consent to add the townships to the borough, in or-
der to make up the requisite number.
Mr. A. BARING thought a good case had been made
out for joining the chapelry of Clitheroe to the parish.
Mr. PRAED wished to know on what grounds Mini-
sters decided the case of this borough. Was it that they
objected to the reception of the additional information,
consisting of a letter to the Home-office, dated 1831, or
that, admitting the evidence, they objected to join the
chapelry to the borough?
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that if Ministers acceded to
the proposition to unite the chapelry to the borough, they
would be setting up a new principle.
Mr. PRAED was not satisfied with this answer.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
if Ministera took part of the parish, they would he forming
a new principle.
Sir C. WETHERELL said, that it appeared, then,
that Ministers would neither take the population out of
the parish or out of the chapelry.
Mr. PRAED repeated his question, not to be satisfied
with the answer be had yet got.—(Laughter.) He said
that it was an important fact that the inhabitants of the
chapelry paid their poor rates exclusively to the borough.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repeated,
that the principle of Ministers was not to take in part of
a parish to make up the population, and said that the
Nouse must decide whether they would depart from the
prinniple in the present instance.
Mr. CtIOKER said, that the parish was rejected be-
cause it was too iasgsa and had no connexion with the bo-
rough, anti the chapelry WILL' rejected because it was closely
dad intimately connected with it..—(Hear.)
Mr. J. b. KNIGHT thought that before the discussion
closed, lie was Zotitled, a personal allusion having been
made to him, to make a low observations on the subject.—
(Hesas.) Some Hon. Gentlemen around him had alluded
to, and complained of, that personal attack. From that
complaint he entirely dissented, for in proportion to the
;rest respect which ire felt for the Right Hon. Blember's
(Isls, Stanley's) private character, the more be valued his
censure. 71 was well knswn that from the Right lion.
Member personal attack would never come, except from
lack of argument, and because there was something to
reply to, with regard to which the legitimate means of re-
plying wets not at band.—(Hear, bear.) He repeated,
that lie felt the gr.-24,e,5t esteem for the Right 11on. Mem-
ber's private character, and ir). the same degree as he re-
apeored the Right lion, Member's private virtues, in the
sa .
same d.:gzee did he detest the public principles of the pre-
sent adininistion, of which the Right Hon. Menthe;
formed a part. —(lleaa, bear.) With regard to the oh-
se,•v?.tions which the Right I 10;;. Gentleman had applied
to low, by begged leave to say not me tzia fervida terrent
dicta; Dii r' terrent. The gallery, the gods of the
Noble Lord opposite, Seasified him.—( Hear. )
The question was then plat assl carried, and Clitheroe
was adde.: to schedule B.
The next question was, "that Cockermoutn stand part
of sche4le B."
Sir J. ,FhcAPITT said he could see no ground for
making a distinatico he.sy.gen Pockerrnouth, and Morpetls
and Horsham.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the diatiactiou was founded
on the kopolation returns.
Sir C. Wetlitpell, Mr. Herries, Mr. Baring, and Mr.
it ttwood, severally contr.ded that Cockermouth was as
fully cintWed to return two liem,lg.N.s as Morpeth and
Ilorshana.
Mr. C. FERGUS,..OISI complained that the alma of
the Catninittete has been ,oecnpled in discussing the cases
of Horsham and Morpeth, instead of the uuestion before
them.—(Hear.) Ile recommended the Committsse not to
attend to what Ministers had done in the cases of Horsham;
and Morpeth, but to decide at once upon the case of
Cockermouth.—(tiear.)
to the charge of wasting
Sir R, PEEL said that he would not lay himself open
After the facts which
he
hatdliewdatireeedoflastitteniCg.ohstnom4ittteleme.
case of Chippenliam,-1 acts which proved to the satisfac-
tion of every man—(No)—he hoped lion
would not contradict an assertion before he ma.deilte.mblgies
ozuetlii
was going to say, that the facts which he
dependencedticed pr
ad
to the satisfaction of every man, that no
lie placed on th.e rillill:Ation returns of )t,,,,!........(hiear.)