The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-15 00:00:00

administration of their political affairs. In this state
of things it appeared that France suddenly sent
an expedition
from Toulon to Civita Vecchia,
which deceived the Roman people, for, according to
their proclamation, they made these people believe
that their object was to prevent the entrance of the
Atistrians, 'and were consequently received by them as
friends; but when the contrary appeared manifest, in
that their intentions were to restore the Pope, they (the
Roman people) acted as became them, by opposing the
French soldiery.—(Hear, hear.) He felt that he was
speaking the opinion of the Roman Catholics of all
countries who were anxious that their religion should
not be stained, when he stated that it was now impos-
sible for Rome to go back to pure absolutism, and that
the time had arrived when the temporal and spiritual
power of the Pope should be separated, and that their
government should no longer continue as it had been.
He therefore wished to know from her Majesty's Go-
vernment what were the intentions of the French Go-
vernment in sending out their forces to Italy; whether it
was for the good of the Pope, or for the
peace of that country.—([fear, hear.) He should
say, with regard to the other two questions, first,
with respect to Austria, he did not think that
Austria bad violated the Roman States, fur though
and should not, therefore, be unjustly
they entered Tuscany, yet that was no portion of the
chargedienia with t
Roman States,
Stateshat act; and, secondly, the King of Naples,
who should be the last to attempt auy undue interference
between the Sovereign Pontiff and the people of Rome,
as he strongly disclaimed against any interference what-
ever between himself and his suffering subjects, the Si-
cilians. It was well known that he has violated the in-
dependent States of the Church, and was now marching
with a strong force into Rome. He wished to know
whether her Majesty's Government had any communi-
cation relative to those extraordinary proceedings; and
whether the Government had taken any part in those
proceedings?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he did not
wish to interrupt the Noble Lord (Lord Beaumont)
in his preface to his questions ; but from what fell
from him he should say, that the present was not a
suitable time to enter into a discussion on events
takennot say whether accurately or not,
as
place in Italy, as stated by the
NobleLanyre da'she would
not at present necessary. But he would
that
h such was
short
badr to
received ary communication from the
French Government as to the latter's interfering in
Italy, by sending out forces there. On the 21st April
last, he (the Marquis
give a
Government
of Landowne) had received a com-
munication that they (the French Government) intended
to send out forces for the preservation of the peace of
Italy, and for the restoration of a constitutional and re-
gular Government, He should add, that he belived that
the march of those French forces on Rome was owing to
the orders of the Commander-in• Chief; and not through
any instructions from the French Government. Ile
could not answer any more with respect to the interfe-
rence of France. Next, with regard to the assumed in-
vasion of Austria, he did not know that any such inva-
sion took place, and he assured their Lordships that no
communication whatever trick place between Austria
and Naples with this country. He should also say, with
regard to the works of art, that he had no information
whatever on the subject.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said that he thought that
their Lordships should expect more information on the
important questions put by the Noble Lord (Lord Beau-
mont) than had been given in the reply. When the
Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) stated that 20,000 French
troops took possession of the heart and centro of Italy,
for the purpose of preserving peace and of restoring a
constitutional Government, be (the Earl of Aberdeen)
thought that there should be more information than that
given to their Lordships on so important a question. He
had no wish to criticise and speak hostilely of the French
Government; but when he had heard that the Prime
Minister had publicly stated that the French forces were
to remain there until peace, and a regular Government
would be established, he would ask, how long would that
be? for to all it was a matter of doubt when that legiti-
mate power would be established.—(Hear, hear.) The
French Government also stated that it was to prevent
foreign powers from interfering, but be would ask,
are not the French as much foreigners to the Roman
States as the Austrians ? He thought that they were
more so, for the Austrians are closer and more inti-
mately connected with the Roman States than the
French, and therefore it could not be a matter of in-
difference to that House or the country that such pro-
ceedings should take place withcut their mature con-
sideration; for when he looked to the declaration of
France on that occasion, he should say that it appeared
to him that France bad not spoken the truth. He be-
lieved that the interference of the Austrians was through
a friendly feeling towards the Pope, and also that France
interfered to prevent the invasion of any foreigner. But i
that reminded him of the declaration of mg John,
when these two Powers went to Angier
south,s—
-" Oh prudent discipline, from north and
"
'
Austria and France shoot in each others mouth.
He asked, was that the issue of the British Govern-
ment's great and extraordinary mission, that 20 000
,
French soldiers should he brought into the centre of
Italy? He believed that the mission of the Noble Earl
(Earl Minto) was most fatal to Italy.
Earl MINTO said that he did not mean to enter into
a long discussion on those questions, but should say,
with respect to his conduct on that great and extraordi-
nary mission, as it had been termed, that .no person
could doubt that he was for the expulsion of the
Austrians from Italy, and he denied that any such de-
duction could be drawn from anything he (Earl Minto)
either said or did on th .t occasion. There was one thine-
which he said, and that was that the British Government
were desirous of preserving the peace of Italy, and that
no change could be made in the territorial arrangements
ratified by the treaty of Vienna. On the occasion of
Charles Albert entering Lombardy, there was no person
more against that line of proceeding than himself. He
at that time saw that there was cuiniderable danger for
the peace and security of Italy, end he felt deeply anxious
to avert it as much as possible; yet it could not be said
that he by any word or act, sanctioned the expulsion of
the Austrians from Italy.
Lord BROUGHAM said that that if the Noble Earl
(Earl Minto) wished to keep Italy free, he could not
congratulate him, when 25,000 French soldiers
were now in the centre of Italy. He recollected
how the Ministry with which he had the honour to be
connected were attacked when the French entered An-
cona, and thought such should serve as a guide to the
future conduct and policy of the British Government.
He looked upon the present question as a most important
one, and perfectly concurred with the Noble Earl (Earl
of Aberdeen) in expressing his astonishment that the
Noble Marquis (Marquis of Lansdowne) should consider
that their Lordships should be satisfied with his state-
ment. The Noble Marquis (Marquis of Lansdowne) said
that ho did not expect that the French troops would
march from Civita Vecchia to Rome, or that they would
offer any opposition to the Republicans at Rome.
How, he asked—how, in the name of God, could they
offer opposition to the people of Civita Vecchia, when,
they made no resistance whatever? Bow could
they produce a constitutional and wholesome
Government for Italy without war, when they knew that
the people of Rome were determined to carry out their
plans to the last? He did not know the motive of the
French Government in sending out that expedition, but
he believed that it was to obtain some glory, not for th-
people of France, but for the people of Paris. He looked
upon the matter as a most extraordinary one, and hoped
that her Majesty's Ministers would not allow their Lord-
ships to continue much longer without the necessary in-
formation. Next with regard to the works of art, he
should say that he (Lord Brougham) had received a
letter from the Financial Minister of France, stating that
the French had not taken away any of those works of
art, and that he (Lord Brougham) suggested to him to
petition their Lordships, which would not by any means
be an irregular course, stating his denial of having taken
from Rome any of those works of art, that be (Lord
Brougham) would present the petition, and that stick
would be satisfactory. There was a precedent for such a
line of proceeding in the case of Mr. Saunders, the other
day; and such a course, he considered, would be most
satisfactory.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that her Ma-
jesty's Government were cognizant of the fact that the
Pope had made earnest applications, not only to France,
but to various other continental powers, to throw a force
on the frontiers of the Roman territory, with a view to
that which, in the opinion of the Pope, would restore
good government to the Roman States, end undoubtedly
the circumstance of that earnest application was not
foreign to the circumstance which afterwards came to the
knowledge of her Majesty's Government of an expedi-
tion professing to be undertaken in that view.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said. ho was of
opinion that the great desire of the French Government
and of the individual who presided over it, was the pre-
servation of peace; and, therefore, he could not but
regret that those questions had been brought forward by
his Noble Friend. lie thought them, to say the least,
premature, and that it was highly indiscreet to have
put them. The answer of the Noble Marquis must
be satisfactorily received, and his Noble Friend should
wait patiently to see the result.—(Hear, hear.) For
his own part (the Marquis of Lond mderry's), he had
a better opinion of the internal state of France, and
of the general prevalence of good feeling in that
country. He was satisfied that the great body of that
nation desired to act rightly ; and although their Lord•
ships were in favour of a monarchical form of Govern-
ment, still that ought not to prevent them from assisting
to sustain the French Government, merely because the
form of that Government was at present republican.—
(Hear, heat.) The head of the French Government
had, • he thought, manifested sagacity and prudence
which would rarely be met with under circumstances of
such trying difficulty as those by which ha had ken
surrounded.—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible for him,
of course, to congratulate General Oudinot on the suc-
cess of his expedition ; but, on the other hand, he
could state it upon good authority, that the moral state
of the French army was much better than was supposed,
and that it did not contain above 300 or 400 Socialists.
There was a great desire for peace in France, and if
anything could attest it, it was the cordiality with which
the recent English visit had been received there, as his
Noble Friend near him could attest (Lord Brougham) as
he believed he had available himself of that mode of
reaching the French capital.—(Great laughter.)
Lord BROUGHAM said he begged leave to give the
most complete contradiction to the statement or the ru-
mour, whichever it was, that he had accompanied any
set of men to, France.—(Reuc-wed laughter.) There
was not the slightest foundation for such an assertion;
for although he certainly did go over the same day, yet
it was by a different conveyance.—(Laughter.) He
would take occasion to express a strung and decided
opinion which ha entertained upon the subject of those
international visits. He deprecated beyond everything
as fatal to the peace of the country, that any communi-
cation of the kind should ever bo held between any fo-
reign country and this country, except through the
Government. It was a safety principle which should
bo kept inviolate; because, it any 0'1344014 I