The Sun.
London, England, 1807-03-27 00:00:00

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:accompanied with -Mt. Pitt's assurance to adhere -to
it equally, whether-he should be in or out of office..
On this principle Mr. Pitt came into office in 1804.
Re would ask the •I‘foble Baron who had opened
this 'discussion, on the other. side, whether, if
the offer that • had been made.• to him at that
time..to, come into office with Mr. Pitt bad been
in other respeel% so agreeable as to have itiduced'him!
to accept. it, he would have insisted on the right of
stating Iss opinions in favour of this Catholic mea-
stire'? The considetation of the.question was at all
times a- consideration . of expediency, which Should.
be weighed maturely ; but though the oath :of
'office hound each of his Majesty's Counsellors to
ad% ise • him to the- best of ••his • judgtrient. and
discietion •in such cases,- there: were,. other .con...
Siderationa •Isc? ,that.,pegln to be included. The
condua of the late IVlieisterS with respe& to the
)2.111 they brolighi forward, was sobjeet to the.
imptitationthat thee hat:either, brought itforasyarcl
lightly; zwithout sufficient,,occ.asion, or without sill;
ficierit- grounds, or if they
.had sufficient groUnds in
bringing it.forWard, they surrendered It in disregard
_of- their oath-of Oftke, Which binds them in all cars .
• to give advic&tb he:besa of their judginegt.,. As_ to
the-Ple4g,e,derrianded,by his Majesty,* th4lie.slnitild"-•
not he again troubled otalliS question, that-arose' from
thereservation' With -Which themeasure .then
.trfere,.
ParliaMene.was given.np, . It,Avas,eee• thing to retain
former_ opinions. as individual Members of Parlia-
:mem, and another thing to 'state those opinion's •as•
11/4161bbet's of Parliatbetit-in• sho.sirttation :ol,M;eisters.
of the Crown,.withall the ..weight and influence an
melted to-that station. Was it for his Mitjesty to ex-
- pose.himielftd be chnsiantly disturbed on a matter,
with fespecf-to' the rethsal .of tivltfchr he.had already
for Med a clear, ditinct, honoerablet: ueidierable, and
conscientious determination, ? He did not:blame the
late:Ministers fur their adherence to th&r•own opi=
miring, 'but they ought to allow the Sovereign, whom
they praised so • much, some, right to maietain
bisopinion ; and after their attempt, to make the condi:
tionsthat had been stated to him, it was not surprising
that he wished tascc.hre himself by requiring a corres-
pondinglf pledge•frorn;them.
cases which had been opposed with•respeCt to Ire•.
land should arise, it would be an aukward thing
deed if any of his' Majesty's Ministers should be- in I
the situation - to-get aip and•sayto his Majesty, all.this ,j
has happened by your adhering to your own opi-,
Dions, and not to my advice. He disliked those
suppositions of disastrous cases, those ,prophecies of
thrown out on this occasion by Noble Lards erz
the other side, for those who made such prophe-
cies had always a disposition to realize them, or at
least a wish to see them realised If men in office
Nd.opiqious different from those:oftheir Sovereign,-"
he did'not say they ought. to give their opinions ,
• up ; but-if the Sovereign cold find other servant* 1
Who would undertake to conduct the Goveroment.
Without requiring this-sacrifice, he had certa.nly the.
righrto appoint and make use of them. These. parsons
might think, that by pursuing other conciliatory
measures with respe& to lreland, for this was not the
only concitheory measure, and 11911 e but cOuciliatorY
Measures could be pursued, that part of_ the .Empire
Might be. ivell and kindly governed without this
sacrifice. From the whole of the statement made,
he thought that the late Ministers, upon their own j
chewing, had been properly dismissed, after the con-
dition
they had proposed to his Majesty-had put him
the necessity of seeking retiof from others, who
thought, like hula, that the measure under Collsidera-
ti"Ll ought not to be granted without tin ess,ential
necessity. This proceeding of his Majesty, and the
acquiescence of those who were now Iris Majesty's
Servants was justified by the coridat of those, who;
thot,gi, first holding the measure so essential- as to
be iodated to bring it forward, afterwards thought
it so *little essental as to concede if to the Sovereign,
at the same time that they inad6.it a point Ot'ditty.to
maintain their ownopiuionsgenerally; intlepen-dent
of the Sovereign's wishes.
Lord GRP:A:VILLE, ion answer to the question-of.
the Noble Lord, who asked whether, when it. was
Proposed to-him by Mr: Pitf,whiatn he venerated and
revered, to take a part' in the Administration formed
,in 1804 he would, if all other things had been
'agreed upon, have insisted on the:tight- ofppeaking
bii opinion upon the Catholic questionrstated, that'
it was in the knowledge of some persons, that he
ivas prepared to insist on that right in its fullest
. amount, and that no consideration -could have itt-
ducvd him to accept an office, either with Mr. Pitt,
or with any other man, without a full and distinct
-recognitiOn of that right.:.:
Lord HOLLAND expatiated on the necessity of.
uniting all the. people, and Attaching their physical
and moral force to the military power that was, now
...so much wanted, for purposes of offensive and de-
.fensive war. At a tune when Russia, whose reli-
gion was nearly Catholic, was engagel in a war for
• the cause of the religion in this Countty, and all
the religions of Europe, and the world, in the midst
of the Catholic-country of Poland, it would be injuri-
eus to insist on
_religious exploded restriaions here.
He was sure it. must'be a misunderstanding in the
-Royal mind that led to the late circumstance. No
person could think Of throwing the blame of that ou
a quarter with respe& to which every one would
-Wish to be delicate. Bilt that was all that could be
• •7 saia. As to the rest, he maintained the right of the
:late Ministers to support their own Opiniinas and-also
rtahe propriety of inticitatihg" that determination to
their Sovereign. Sikh a proceeding was much more
- .„becomieg .than' a silent resolution, after which they
May come forward with ra display of their opinions, •
'Then, it was least expeeted by the Sovereign, to
iS greatsarprise and annoyance. ,
--- Lord CdßNAßVONcemmended the late Mini-
.
'liters for their refusal to give a pledge which' would
t -debar them frointhe free exercise of their constitu-
; tional duty to advise the King to the best of their
judgment and discretion. It' 'the present. Ministers
• had given such a pledge they were guilty of high
-treason.
Lola 11411/KESBLRY denied that such a pledge
ba.d given or asked. If differences existed.be-
the King and his Ministers, it was bettei they
-: should separate. It was essential to the good of the
Country that the Sovereign and his Ministers should
be unanimous and an.A
therefore it was fortunate if his
majesty had found a set of men who thought as he .
.did on the subject that bad been particularly under
• cliseussaon.
Some explabat:on took place between Lord HoL--
LON HAWKssistilty, and Lord CA/UN:Atli/ON, ;
. The Earl of BucicivciviAmsmigE, said; it I
was acid to the Irish Pairlianient 'that the ./i6t or

I 4
t 7 11164. bk 010e0ed to•Dricl4l and tOthe Nky;,
with respect to which the Gish .Parliament 'had no
power. The pYesefit Ministers_cante in on. a
ciple adverse, to further concession. Tle thought it
right to state here, however, that the concessio.rs
then made by the Irish Parliament to the eatho:ies
were the full extent Of what the Irish Parham-tilt
Was disposed to concede to that body. As 'to the
matter that had_ been prindipally before the HorArr.,
he knew nothing of the circumstances connected
with it. 'He deprecated the use of the Sovereign's
name, .now. for the first time introduced into debate.'
But if clift'eiei:lces existed bet Ween the Sovereign and:-
his Ministers, it becanaen- matter of necessity that
his Majesty should change.
Lord 4:liW N E maintained that the Catholic.
Queition• had little cot-ilet-lion With the question .be-
fore their Lordships relating to the cause ofthe
change in Administration. He had' entertained opi-
nions different from those of his colleagues as to the
expediency
.OP pressing-
,the Royal - mind upon the•
Catholic Question. It was immaterial to inquire
ihto the.precise origin of the misconception that had
arisen between his Astiesty and his 'Ministers i When -
that misconception WaSlOuridlo exist, the Bill was
Abandoned. The nropilett of reserving the right of
advising the Crown on a lioint of importaot and in-
creasing policy, he entirely.coiticided in ; and though'
he agreed most fully in his Majesty's sentiments with'
respea to the particular question, he would himself be •
as tit' as'any man from giving such a pledge, even
with respect to that question. Resenting the right, it
was also highly proper to make the reservation dis-
tinalLknowb: The late Ministers had giveu up
the measure they. I)ll'firopOsed, because they thought -
it unwise at tine thue to hazardia distolutiou Of the
Government, or.a4-iolation of his Maj,t,irysfeetio,s,
by pressing ihe_pholics might haiTe
iooked-
for relief. But now he feared they would ii-ruk npori-
the pi6ent Administration 'ls founded on .a• principV
of granting :them no. fartWr concession. He would•
make no invidious observations em those Whri had
'advised his Majesty to the change of Ministers.
would only state, that the criSis %;17.as most.evehtful',)
and that theirtordships ought to thick to what an ex,-
tent,tbe things that had been done, may. influence
the results of this critical Situation.— '- •

Lokd BUCKINGHAMSHIRE-explained, that
nothing that he had 'said could farifeily,a key to.the
sYsteni. it was , intended ,to pursue .with respk.t
,to
Ireland, He was no Minister, nor had any office
under •'Ministers. 'd o..isi(in. of both Houses'On
the Catholic Qtiestidti last year,- would ,have mote
etieel in de; erring tlw Catholics front presentin,;
their Petition, than any thing any Minister 601,\1d
say. _
The Marquis -of' STAITOZD gave -notice, that 00
Wednesday ntiijtt, he, would submit to their
Lordships a Motion 911 the subjeCt matter of the cot,-'
versation that had itti plai-efrthi night.
It was ordered'that the- Lords,. be Itimmoned for
Wednesday se'nnight. •
Lord HA.wxEsuulzy wished the Noble Lord to
state the nature of the Motion he itacttded to :ifer.
The Marquis of STAITbRD'gn-ve no explanation.
4djourned at Twel.o oViock ,Pt.tdt.esday
sOitzlit. •

HOUSE OF 00.11 MONS.
THURSDAY, MAKCH 26.

Mr, SIizRIQ,IN.I)I-UOZilt in a for the Ereffion
of a Bridge over.the.Thames,.oppooite to Southaoap-
ton-street, iti the Strand.-7 Read a first time.

.• • -
SOLICITORL-GENZIIAL ( Sir S. ROMILLY)
brought in a Bill to -render the Freehold Eitate.i of
Tradors dying indebted Asiets for the Payment of
Simplt3Cootrad Ps:bts.—Read a first time; ordered
to printed, ant tube read a second tiind': oil Thurs-
d. y, 9th of April.
_ _