The Sun.
London, England, 1814-11-30 00:00:00

MR. G. ROSE.

Mr.l2os`E, in consequence of an observation
made last night by Mr. Whitbread, as to 105/,_
charged in 'the Estimate ha lieu of Acts of Parlia-
matt, requested the attention of the House to a
few words which be wished to offer 'on the sub-
ject. Formerly it was the custom 'for •Clerks in
Parliament, and in the several Offices, to receive
as an additional remuneration of services over and
above their salaries, paper, pens, Scotch coals,
and .other articles, which had !Ong been received
in the way be ,had mentioned, and which, xv:ieti
'he came info:the office of Secretary of the Trea-
sury,. he lead procured to be abolished.by giving a
cpinniuNtion. The Clerk of Parliament was en-
titled to Acts of Parliament, and they had been
comninted at 50 guineas a-year. He had neglect-
ed to take his 50 guineas the year before last, and
that sine had, therefore, been carried to account,
and pin down last year at 1051. being the two
years' allowance.
Wiff-raaRAD said, that having never seen
the kig'ot I,lon. Gentleman's name in that article
of :he estiniate before, was the occasion of his
baying observed on it as he did. lie thought the
a he Hoe,. Gentleman had acted in_ a praise,
varthy manner in ri,lthig the accounts of the se-:
vend items of pens, paper, Scotch coals, candles,
&c. and mess Only sorry the 50 guineas had stuck
in his tlroat.
Rosz.--1f any man living had ever stated
,to tha-t his vas an unfit slam for me to receive,
.1 never would have to ached it ; now that the Hon.
Gentleman has so pronounced it, I never from this.
hour wal tccept another farthing on this account.
():se:tr, 'hear 1)
ORANGE SOCIETIES.

Sir J.Nzwrop.T 'rose for the purpose of moving
for PaperL•upon the subject of Orange Associations
still exivin,g- in Ireland. Ile had' hoped that:the
strong sense. of disapprobation expressed by Par-
liament in 1813, would have rendered any further
uotit'e unnecessary ; but being disappointed, and
knowing- how destructive theSe illegal Corpora-
dons •were to the tranquillity of his native conn-
,he had thought it his duty to submit to Par-
liament a distinct proposition upon the subject.
It was full time that the people of Ireland should
know that these Associations were illegal, and
punishable by the Statutes of the land : while,
however, the Chief Secretary of the Lord Lieu-
tenant gave them his countenance, approbation,
and !protection:, it was not to be supposed that
their munbers would be diminished, or their
proceedings made the subject of legal investi-
gaWin. He quoted the opinions of Lord
Castlereagh and Mr. Canning, delivered during
the -last' 'Session, in which they had expl-ess-
Ed themselves
.in terms of strong reprobation
of these Associations. How' could 'their senti-
ments, 'however, have any weight :in Ireland,
while the Irish Government received Addresses
from these leaders and from Grand Juries, claim-
ing -prorecti„,,, t,, which answers were returned
applauding their principles -and proceedings
Whatever might be any man's individual -opinion
upon- the question, it was his duty, when in a
public capacity, to be gliided by the jinlgment of
the Legislature. The Grand Jury, 'who had pre-
sented the Address, were terined‘loyal men;" but
if loyal meant, as.the lion. I,laronet contended it
did,' obedience to the laws, the wool was mis-
applied, for they had neglected their ditty in not
complying with the Sainte, which related to the
appointment of Chaplains to Catholic prisoners in
Ireland. Ti had been a matter of frequent con-
test between them, and the Judges of Assize. He
concluded' by moving,

" That there be laid before the House copies of all Ad-
dresses -of SocietitCs or licalies of men, calllog themselves
Orange Associations, in Ireland, to the Irish Government,
with copies. of such Answers as had been returned thereto."

Mr: PEELE rose to second the motion. Though,
perhaps, it might be questioned,' if st,cli papers
actually existed; whether it was usual to call for
them in Parliament, vet no such objection shonld
come from hint. He could not divine the object
of the Meta Hpnoniable Baronet'S motion, unless
it were the following :—The Right Honourable
Bironet bad complained of much mist epresenta-
tint) which had appeared against hint in the news-
papers, and ltad shewn himself very anxious to
wipe off these aspersions ; having, therefore, a
few nights ago supported the Irish Peace Preser-
vatjon Bill, and having last Session proclaimed
his descent from the Dutch • Guards of King
William, he was, perhaps, in an alarm lest he
alionld be inistakeo loran Orange-man---(A laugh)
=and So made the present motion to prevent such
a miscouceptiou . Such a supposition was not alto-
gether improbable, as spine persons lrad been called
Orange Papists on no better ground than their
having given a vote fora Protestant Member.—
Tbe Right Hon. Baronet had charged him with
encouraging t he Orange Loages. On what grounds
and from what documents did be bring such a
charge ? The House would listeO to an explana-
tion on this subject. Last Session some petitions
were presented to Parliament by an Honourable
Baronet, Member for Queen's county, on the
subject of Orange Lodges; and he (i\lr. Peelc) had
taken that opport unity of vindicating these Societies
against some of the 'misrepresentatibris Current
against them. Did this warrant an imputa-
tion that be was an encourager of such Asso-
ciations? Ott his - return to Ireland, the
Grand Jury of Fermanagh (a body for whose
opinion he felt the highest respect), had itddress.-
ed Lito,,and he had answered that Address. This
%vas the only Address, and the only answer on the
liject mentioned by the Hight ilon. Genheinati.
The Addres thanked hint for correcting the mis-.
vepresentation4 a hich-had gone abroad as to the
Oiapg,e Meetings, and he in iris answer stated,
that he believed that many misrepresentations pre-
.
; and while he disciainceA all intentlon of
,
encouraging or u contenimeing. such Societies, Ire
had recoMmended to them the most peaceable .and
denreanopr. ,And this. was t,[te document
on which he was charged with 'e.i-CcVntaVing" such
Aswciations. There was no other docuateut: at

. ,
'far ..I`Atecofiec.ted, 'not a'single
COmiurtnidalion any wa.V relating to 'this subject-,
T'xcept- perhaps the Dublin Address Viight be. so
'C'tillerd•,' 'in which he had, been thanked for replying
'to the 42th-tiers of disappointed aMbition, aid
which Address be had' shortly anse'red by ex-
pressing his gratitude at their approval of his
conduct: F could undertake to sayy that there
tad Ite)en 'nothing else : and as to any Addresses
`front Orange bodges; there was not the slightest
fouti'dation for sardi an insinuation. While, how-
ever, he said this, he. did (lot wish to retract any
expression which be had before tittered in depre-
r the usual abuse, against the motives of
th.eassociations, lie hoped that the Right Hon.
Baronet-would be able, in his reply, to state some
further and better ground for his motion ; that
lie would refer to some particular document, some
distinct proceeding of the Irish Government,
and not leave his motion so ludicrously bare as
it was at present. He concluded by vindicating
the Grand Jury of Fermanagh from the charge
brought against tfi-eni- as "well as he-redollected,
.t.hey had been empoweted to choose a Chaplain,
,and had merely disputed about the fitness of a 111311
wbo had been appointed to that situation.. The
Right Hon. Baronet had stated that they had acted
illegally; it was incumbent upon him to state the
grounds of such a charge.
Alr. W. POLE supported the original motion.
His Hight lion. Friend (Mr. Peek) naturally
wished, in vindication of his character, that every
paper should be produced that was in existence Off
that subject. When those papers should be be-
fore the House, they would then be enabled to
judge of the correctness or incorrectness of the
Charge 'brought forward by the Hon. Baronet.
.1-1 e would allow that a mere address ' froM a
Grand Jury to an individual Member of Parlia-
ment; with his answer to it, tui4ht. not, in ordi-
nary cases, be 'conceived worthy of being pro,
duced before the House ; but when a Right Hon.
Baronet, of considerable weight its the House,
chose to make such a paper a ground of serious
charge against a person holding the high situation
his Right Hon. Friend did, he wished the paper
to be produced.
Mr. CaoKEE submitted, that, as the Papers re-
quired were only private documents, the House
would not require them.—He therefore moved
the previous question.
Mr. FITZGERALD thought that the Papers ought
to be produced, although no Parliamentat v
ground had been laid for the consideration of the
character of his Right Honourable Friend (Mr.
Peele).
Mr. CROKER explained, that the addresses were
only transmitted to Mr. Peek, as a Niember of Par-
!lament, and not as a public Officer.
Mr. BANKES thought the, documents, if they
existed, ought to he laid upon the Table.
Sir Joitz4 NEWPGRT said, all be could assert was,
that he had seen the Address to which he had
alluded its print, He did not answer for its au-
thenticity ; hat he had thought it his duty to men-
tion it to the House, that they might pronounce
upon the legality or illegality of such Associa-
tions.
Mr. PEO.E allowed.that great abuses had pre-
vailed. As he understood 'that the Hoa. Mem-
bers'onotion was. founded on a paragraph in she
newspapers, which he_ arlso understood had been
nds-stated, he was anxious that the Hon. 13arooest

shoul►l ca►ry his motion. If an athiress j►ad been,

on ,any occasion, made to I►iui, and he had notire-
turned any answer to it, he hoped that would not
appear inconsistent with the declaration he had
made.—The motion was then put and agreed to.
FREEHOLD ESTATES BILL.
Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY gave notice, that he should to-
morrow move for leave to bring in a Bill to make Freehold
Property liable, in certain cases, to simple contract debts.
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.'
Mr. BANKES, after a few previous observations, moved for

" an acCount of the .numbe'r of Public Aecountswhicli had

been presented, to the 9. tt hof March, 1814, and which had
been since audited; tog-ether with a statement of the number
of Accounts since sent in for auditing."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, as an
Amendment, that the account should state, whether those
accounts so
.audited were complete and accompanied with

vonchers„—The Resolution so amended was agreed to.—lle
then moved several other Resolutions : lst, with respect to
the auditing of the West Ind•,a Accounts: 2dly, the Accounts
of the Barrack Master General; since the 10th of dune, 1811:
cdly, respecting the Accounts of the late Mr.. Wyatt. He
'also moved similar Resolutions about Army Accounts, Mili-
tia Accounts, and Commissariat Accounts.—The several Re-
solutions were agreed to.
ASSIZE OE BREAD.

Alderman C. SMITH moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
repeal the; present Acts respecting the regulation of Bread in
the district of the metropolis.

Mr. BARING wished the Hon. Alderman would lay some
grounds for his motion.
Alderman SMITH said, that when the Magistrates went
their rounds, and discovered ►ight Bread at the different
chandlers' shops, they had no sufficient power to punish the
offenders. Another main object of the Bill was to prevent
the adulteration of bread; as it had often occurred lately, that
Bread had been found mixed up with improper ingredients,
and the Magistrates had ❑o power to punish such offences.—
Leave was given to bring in the Bill.