The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-09 00:00:00

that the trade should be thrown open, and that the public
should have the advantage of the measure which the late
Government bad prepared upon, it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed
with his Hon. Friend, the Member for Middlesex, that it
was extremely desirable this trade should be thrown open.
In fact, a measure bad been prepared upon the subject,
which would be ready in a few days.
Mr. SADLER also called the attention of the House to
the great partiality which was shown is the giving away
the plates for cabs and coaches, particularly the latter,
which had now for the greater part got into the hands of
a set of monopolists, by which the public were deprived of
the advantage they bad a right to expect from an open
trade. It was a piece of gross partiality somewhere, that
these plates should be giverrby twenty or thirty at a time,
to persons who had no connexion whatever with the trade.
If any preference were given, surely it ought to be to those
who were labouring night and day in the public service.
He did hope that night Hon. Gentlemen opposite would
not tolerate such a monopoly.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed
with the Hon. Member that the manner in which hack-
ney cowl, and cabrio!et plates were distributed was ob-
jectionable, but the regulation of the Commissioners, to
which allusion was made, was only until the Bill should
be introduced.
Mr. WARBURTON understood that the Bill was left
prepared by the late Government, and he did not see why
any delay should be allowed to intervene in bringing it for-
ward. All it required, he should suppose, was to bring
forward the measure which Ministers found prepared.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had intended that the Bill should be accompanied with
some regulations for the consolidatiot/ of the Stamp Duties,
but he had not had time to bring it forward puller. He
fully agreed that the public should have the advantage of
throwing the trade open.
Mr. Alderman VENABLES bore testimony to the mis-
chievous system on which hackney-coach and cab licences
were granted. The public were deprived by it of the advan-
tages they had a right to expect. He was glad, however,
to find that Government were determined to put an end
to that system by throwing the trade open.
GRAND JURY PRESENTMENTS (IRELAND.)
Mr. GEORGE DAWSON wished to lcnow from the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, whether it was intended
to bring forward any measure on the subject of Irish Grand
Jury Presentments..
..
' " '

tition wu then ordered to betaken into consideration on
the 4th of August next.
BOROUGH OF LIVERPOOL.
Mr. E. DENISON, after contending in a very inau-
dible tone of voice that the suspension of the writ for the
borough of Liverpool was neither legal nor justifiable by
principle nor precedent, and after insisting that the Reform
Bill would correct all the abuses alleged to exist under the
present elective system for that borough, moved '6 that the
Speaker do now issue his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown,
to issue a new writ for the election of a burgess to serve
*-- the borough of Liverpool in the room of Mr. E. De-
-uo bad made his election to serve for the county
nison,
of Nottingham.
-led the motion.
Mr. EWART secone
.asked the Hon. Member
The Marquis of CHANI32S ato pereist in the mo-
for Wiltshire, whether he intends,.
tt:.e on this subject,
tion of which he bad formerly given
Mr. BENETT at present did not fene°lhimselie-nlled upon
to originate such a motion.
Mr. C. WYNN should certainly ,oppose the issuing of
this writ, until the evidence taken before the Election
Com-
mittee had been brought under the consideration of the
House. The best course which the House could follow at
present was, either to negative this motion or to suspend
the issuing of this writ till Monday or Tuesday next, when
the motion of the Hon. Member for Wiltshire would bel
taken into consideration.
Mr. H. GURNEY could not agree either in the prin-
ciple or in the expediency of the proposal of the Right
Hon. Member for Montgomeryshire.
Mr. RIGBY WASON insisted, that in consequence
of the notorious bribery which took place at the
Liverpool election in 1830, it was imperative upon
the House to adopt the course recommended by the
Hon. Member for Wiltshire. He contended that even
at present corruption was going on in that borough,
and that it had been committed without disguise
at the late general election. He knew that 300 or
400 voters had been obliged to vote for the two Member.,
who bad spent such large sums at the previous election.
He said that they bad been obliged to vote for those two
Hon. Gentlemen, for they bad been told, that if they did
not vote for them, they must refund, at the bar of the
House, the sums which they had received on their behalf.
Mr. C. PELHAM said a few words which were totally
inaudible.
Mr. GOULBURN recommended the postponement of
the writ until the motion of the Hon. Member for Wilt•
shire should be discussed, which course appeared to him
the more desirable, as that Hon. Gentleman had been the
Chairman of the Committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
undertake to offer more than his own sentiments as an in-
dividual Member, but advised that the issuing of the writ
should not be postponed, as the motion of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Wiltshire could as fitly be discussed after the writ
had been issued as before. —(-fear, hear.) He thought
it rather bard that such a town as Liverpool should be de-
prived of the services of one of its representatives longer
than was absolutely indispensable. At the same time,
had he conceived that the mere issuing of the writ would
at all interfere with the power of the House to inquire
into the alleged corruption of the electors, he would at
once have set his face against the proposal.
Sir C. WETHERELL suggested that was rather a
whimsical mode of trewment for a ease like that of Liver-
pool, to issue a writ which would give the electors the
right to exercise their privile of voting, and then to in-
quire whether thousands of them had not been guilty of
bribery and corruption, as stated in the report. In say-
ing this, fie did not mean to give any opinion as to the
merits of the uitimate question ; but although there was
no case, he believed, precisely similar to the present on the
Journals, it was undoubtedly quite competent for the
House to direct that no writ should he issued, until a re-
gular inquiry had previously been instituted.
Mr. LITTLETON wished to dissuade the House from
establishing such a precedent as that of withholding its
REFORM BILL.
consent to the motion of the lion. Member for Notting-
Lord MILTON asked whether it was intended to go
ham. The case of Grampound seemed sufficiently in
into the Committee on the Reform Bill on Tuesday next ?
point to justify the issuing of the writ previous to an in-
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was.
vestigation, as the question of that borough's disfranchise-
Lord MILTON then gave notice of his intention to move
ment had been entered into while its two Members were
an amendment to that clause of the Bill which gave the
actually in possession of their seats, and he should accord-
franchise to leaseholders. It was alco his intention to
ingly vote in support of the motion.
snove that schedule D be transferred to schedule C; so
Sir C. FORBES was understood to recommend the
that each of the new places which should send Members
issuing of the writ, after animadverting at some beigth ?le
should send two instead of one.
the outrage which the Constitution was to sustain by the
The SPEAKER. then having left the Chair, the House
passing of the Reform Bill.
went into
Lord HOWICK preferred directing the Attorney-Ge- THE COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
neral to prosecute the parties in a Court of Law, seeing
Alr. S. RICE moved that a sum not exceeding 8,3731.
that bribery was on indictable offence. This, he thought,
be granted to his Majesty for defraying the contingent ex-
-IA-ould be a more judicious course than that of referring
senses and messengers' hills for the office of the Secretary
such cases to the investigation of the House of Commons.
for the Home Department for 1831.—Carried.
He certainly had supposed that it would have been deemed
The next resolution was, that a sum not exceeding
hardly worth while to enter on an affair like this at a mo-
-35,155/. be granted for similar expenses in the office of
rnent wheel an effectual Reform was in view. Influenced
Secretary for Foreign Affairs.
by these ceensiderations, he should vote for the issuing of
Mr. HUME objected to the present system of having
the writ. separate establishments of messengers for each department.
Sir G. CLERK advised that the House should adopt
It would be better economy to have one establishment for
the mode of procsteding which had been pursued on Wed-
messengers, who might be called upon for any department
nesday last, and want(' therefore move that the further
debate be adjourned to _Monday, in order that the Hon. as they might be required.
Mr. S. RICE did not think the question so much one
Member for Wiltshire migat be enabled to bring forward
of economy as of arrangement. No office ought to keep
the motion of which he had ;given notice. The Right
more messengers than were necessary, but having one
Hon. Baronet concluded by ma ;:cg a motion to that effect. depot for messengers would not answer, as the messenger
Lord J. RUSSELL, seeing that the suspension of a
for one department would not be qualified in all cases for
writ should not be resorted to lightlis was inclined to
the others.
agree t' the original motion, although he admitted there
After a few words from from Mr. C. WYNN, G. DAW-
were some difficulties in the case which might justify other
sox, and Mr. IleMe, the vote was agreed to.
gentlemen in adopting a different course. The next vote was for a sum of 8,4301. for similar ex-
Mr. ROCS would vote for the amendment. penses in the Colonial Department.
Mr. C. W. W. WYNN also supported the amendment.
Mr. HUME wished to know what was the use of tiles-
Mr. EWART said it was highly expedient that the
sengers to the Colonies? Were any sent out to Jamaica ?
writ should en account of the press of business
Mr. WRANGHAM said, that messengers were sent to
co- seated with Vie towel of Liverpool.
the 'lonian Islands during the eegocietlons respecting Greece.
Mr. BENETT defended the comer he had taken pre-
Lord HOWICK said, that they had seldom occasion to
viously to the dissolution, and since, on this subject ; and
meda4se. ers abroad, but that sometimes they were sent
ng
(expressed his determination to pre his motion as speedily
send
na to Canada.
as possible. He voted for the amendment.
Mr. S. RICE said, there was a diminution on this item
The House divided—
of 1,0001. since last year.
For the amendment ll7
For the original motion
Maj0rity......... ........ . ...... ly The next vote was a sum of 2,8001., for similar ex-
The debate was then adjourned to Monday next. peewee in the Privy Council, and the Committee of Privy
On ouc return to the gallery, we found (on the question Council, for Ireland.—Agreed to.
that the .speaker do leave the chair,—the Order of the Mr. S. RICE nisi, that the next vote of 2,800/., for
Day that the House do eesolve itself into a Committee of similar expenses in the offices of First Lord of the Treasury
Supply having been previously carried)— and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had been greatly re-
Mr. GOULBURN putting a question to the Right damned. In 1829, it was 6,500/. ; in the last year, 3,8001.
Hon. Secretary for Ireland, whether it was his intention Lerst G. SOMERSET wished to know whether any
to bring forward the Irish Arms' Importation Bill that and what htepo had been taken to reform the abuses in the
evening. mode of calculation mid accounts in the Exchequer, which
Mr. STANLEY was glad of the opportunity which the had bees recommended hi Committees of that House ?
Right Hon. Gentleman's question gave him of explaining Mr. S. RICE said, that a Commission was appointed
what it wes intended to do with respect to it. When he to inquire into the subject, but Government west not pre-'I
hrought forward the subject before, at a late hour, be was pared in the present Session with any measure; but be
aware of the excitement the short statement that he had expected eteet in the course of next Session some arrange-
made hail produced. Since then he had had several corn- ment would be satnitted for adoption by the House.
municatiene with roany Hon. Members for whose opt- The vote was then ...geed to.
nion'; lie had the highest respect, and to whose great The next vote was that trreL,t. be granted to defray
knowledge of the feeliegs and condition of Ireland he the expense of the salaries or allowance to certain Pro-
.ids not ashamed to bow ; but while he still thought fessors at the Universities of Oxford and Catelvidge.
that this was not the season when they should relax any Mr. HUME objected to the vote. He thought that the
precautionary measures with reeoect to the importation or gentlemen who went to the Universities ought to pay
possession of arms in Ireland, he avowed that those Hon. 1 their Own expen.es, and that the people should not be called
:Members to whom be alluded had impressed on him that epos, tp educate Noblemen's sons and the children of rich
the penalty mentioned in the Bill of transportation fur the i coromorwe.
p ,ssession of unregistered arms, was so little proportioned Mr. RICE 341, that the Universities afforded the means
to the nature of the offence, that he had determined not of education to persons in the most humble condition of
to persevere in that clause of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) life.—(Hear.)
Having stated this much, he would not enter farther into Mr. W. PEEL supported the vane, He was surprised
it at that moment, but he hoped that at a later part of dee to hear the Hon. Member for Middlesex, wo professed to
evening he should have an opportunity of moving the or- he friendly to the diffusion of knowledge, object to the pre,
der of the day for bringing the subject regularly before the sent vote...-e(Hear, hear.)
House ;he would then move that the debate be adjourned Lord MILTON was in favour of the grant. He was
to Friday, when he should be ready to go more full,/ into sure the situation of peofeesors in the Universities was in
the subject. many instances far from being peo4table. They were, in
Mr. C. W. WYNN asked, whether the Noble Lord fact, very often out of pocket.
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would allow the order. Mr. HUNT said the Noble Lord who had jesst :spleen?
of the day, for the adjourned debate on the Liverpool writ seemed to think that the sons of rich men should be On-
ter take precedence of the other orders ou Monday next ? crated at the expense of the people. He would ask the
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, as Noble Lord, whether the poor weavers of Preston ought
there were only two days in the week whet the orders re- to be called upon to pay these professors oet of the money
hating to public bueirsess had precedence, he was poedis- with which they had to buy candles and 803) and Other
posed to give up that precAence. It would be the lesson- necessaries for themselves.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," 44
eessary in this as the Hon. Member for Wiltshire (Mr. coesgleing.) The moment any one spoke for the poor a
33e Lett) bad declared his intention of bringing forward hie cough beam out from all parts of the House.—(No, no,
motion to-night, if opportunity should offee. and loud coughing.) The Hon. Member for Oxford might
HACKNEY COACH AND CABRIOLET LICENCES. say " augh." That might be very Parliamentary, but if
Mr. HUME asked what were the intentions of Gover;.2. the Hon. Member had any regaed for the poor—(011, oh,
relent as to a Bill, which had been prepared two years ago, and loud coughing.) He presented a petition—(Cries of
on the subject of a new regulation for hackney-coach and " Question," from all parts of the House.)
tab fares. A Committee had at that time inquired into Mr. ROBINSON asked the Chairman of the Cam-
the subject, and, on the report they made, a Bill had been mittee whether it was competent for any Member in that
prepared by the late Government, which, if it had coati_ House to impute to other Uernbers an entire disregard of
~isle;, would have been brought forward before now, and the poor.—(Cheers.)
he did not see why the public should be deprived of the Lord MILT,QN—The Hon. Member (Mr. Hunt) had
advantaee which they had a right to expect from such a asked whether the poor weaver of Preston should be
measure. He was the more anxious for some explanation called upon to pay to the professors of the Universities a
complaints were every day made by the portion of the money he .bad to buy soap and candles
on this suiljert, as
tvhich hackney-coach and ea- with? The weaversof
public of th e naannerPreston were an humble, and,
distributed. Hackney-coach plates he was afraid, a distressed class of the people ; but they
briolet plate s were
were taken up., and cabriolet(i platesie given in exchange, but belonged to a great community, and thetaullee.
slt.:elaverwsaaof
1 1h
which" fkorirned the British
ten or twelve to persons in affluent whether thptte.ocummaru, ri_ituyt—not
these were give u of ex- Preston in
circumstances, I, 'bile a poor man found it a matter
power-
treme d ifficulty ) obtain one. This was a sort of mo- ful, and wealthy community,
and a in) its results ex- empire, should give out of the public fiends some trifling
nopoly unjust to D.lany poor persoTlP,
He thought consideration to the professors.—(Cheering.) Let the
ieinely injurious ta t the —(He r,

Mr. STANLVY replied, that it was the intention of
Government to bring forwaol a measure. on that subject.
The reason why it had been not introit:zed earlier was,
that it was not intended to do more with it in the present
session than to have it printed for distribution in Ireland,
with a view to its discussion early in the next session.
Iglx OF MAN.

An How. MEmasit, whose name we aid pot learn,
asked whether it was intended to make any alteration in
the Customs' regulations of the Isle of Man. This small
island, though he might say in the centre of the kingdom,
had as large an establishment for Customs as ii it were a
thousand miles distant. Formerly this might bu necessary,
but at present, when the facility of steam communication
was so great, it was unnecessary. There was an Inspector-
General of Customs, with a salary of 3001. or 5001. a year,
whose place was now almost a sinecure.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
the whole of the Customs' regulations were at present
under the consideration of the Treasury, and those of the
Isle of Man would not be lost sight of.
Mr. GOULBURN said a low words, which were not
audible i❑ the gallery.