The Sun.
London, England, 1822-03-02 00:00:00

contented himself with proposing a reduction of the Esti•
kates-by only the sum of 10,0001.. The Estimates for the
tiesent year were 7 or 80001: less than the last, and yet the
so-Gentleman proposed to reduce them by 25 per cent. It
is undoubtedly true, that the Committee of 1817 did ex-
Press their opinion of the office of Treasurer of the Navy, in
the terms'quoted by the Hon. Gentleman last year. But he
(11r. Robinson). stated at that time, that the duty of the
rreasurer of the Navy did nut consist in merely paying
cbt(pieS, hut be had also to investigate the rights of the per-
son presenting them to receive their amounts. If the Hon.
Gentleman said the contrary, he would tell that lion. Gen-
tleman that he had not read a single Act of Parliament on
the subject. The duty of the Treasurer of the Navy was very
d'ffelent front that of a banker. Although the lion. Gen-
tleman (lid not do himself the favour of attending to him, he
\mild tell hint, that Abe Treasurer of the Navy was liable to
be called to account by Parliament. It was the duty of the
',Treasurer of the Nary to refuse payment of cleques, if he had
•.tny doubts whatever of the correctness of the claim. The
Treaturer of the Navy executes .that ditty—nay, fur having
refused payment of one cheque, an action had been brought
4g:dustbins in a court of law. Was that the duty of an or di-
nary banker ? Certainly not. The banker wits not subject
to such consequences. Another' branch "rif the duty of the
Treasurer of the Navy was the payment of claims and wages.
vut hat head he had not only satisfied the House last Session,
out men the Honourable Gentleman himself, whit had dune
him the honour to say, that his conduct was to C•tlifild, that
he (Mr. Hume) should withdraw his opposition to- the vole,
and it passed accordingly. Ott that occasion he (Mr. Robin-
'4ll} had told the House, that if the Honourahle Gentleman
cattle and spent in the Nave-office one or two of the dullest
'lava that could be passed, he would venture to say, That the
1-I(;nourable Member for Aberdeen would go away satisfied
that it would he utterly impossible to dispense with the office.
-"-(Hear, hear !)—The Honourable Gentleman had said, that
reduction had taken place. Three distinct offices and four--
leen individuals bad been reduced, three of whom had high
salaries. Did the Hon. Gentleman mean to say, that was
nett ing ? He would declare upon his honour that'it was
', Considerable difficulty the business could be done with
`,"L! present reduced number of the establishment. Allusion
;;ad been made to the office of Cashier, and the Hon. Gen-
e 51,515 (Mr. House) expressed surprise, that a person who
14151 y
d held that office could become a defaulter, as the Act
' not allow money to remain in his bands. It should be
ciententhered, however, that it was the business of the Cashier
5 Pay off a variety of bills, and, for this purpose, sums of
:11w5eY were occasionally placed its his hands, drawn from
.`le Rank. It frequently happened that small balances re-
-I"L'ained, over and above what was necessary, and it was
r'eotlgh the balances so remaining the 'WWII alluded to
,etorie defaulter. The law contemplated the necessity
t." their placing money in the
.bands of the cashier, for it
had trot been inoperative was clear front this circinn-
C4,sce- Front the year 1789, not less than 400,000,0001.
Passed thtough the hands of that officer, of which only
"15,0001. disappeared, and of this 35,0001. was afterwards re-
c^cered, so that the whole loss was no more than 30,0001. out
;I 5" large a SIMI. The salaries, he -contended, were not too
50- They had been earned by length of service. The amount
of security in the higher situations, and the great difficulty of
Procuring it, should also be recollected. That security was
the "Illy effectual protection against the bad pa-sions and
seif•interested motives by which it was natural to suppuae
'Orne persons might be actuated. There were some who had
teen thirty, forty, and fifty years in the office. Were they
How to be told that 45 per cent. was to be taken from their
silaries. He wished the Hon. Gentleman had heard the
statements many of those &affects made to hint of their per-
sonal situation. The first in that office was Mr. Fennel.
Hats long did he serve ?49 years—a man of the most unim-
Peached honour and integrity.—lt was easy for Gentlemen to
t 411; of the necessity of reduction, of catering away salaries;
lief if they were placed for a day or two in his situation, they
would find the difficulty of suggesting to those who had large
families—who had nothing to depend upon but their places—
who hid spent many years in laborious service—they would
Unkl the difficulty of telling them that, at the close of life,
they were. to he deprived of part of those means they had
long calculated upon as their only source of support. He
felt confident that the Gentlemen of England, or the people
of England, would not now say that they could not give these
People the reward of their long services.—(Hear!)—He only
wished that those who talk of the high salaries of those per-
sans were obliged to perform the painful duty of paring them
'bowl). With respect to the Treasurer of the Nary, he could
nut allow that 30001. a year was too much. It should he re-
smoked that this had been the salary for 150 years. This
Was not more than adequate both for the labour and
'es"aslbllitY. Did the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) know
that the Treasurer of the Navy could make no title to any
tlarshil'i,if his real property, not even to one acre—that he
dere,l4,(e to pecuniary claims, which in many instances reit-
" the situation one of loss in place of emolument. He
could much prefer that the House should vote away part of
his salary than to reduce that of those persons.
Mr. ELLICE said, be rose for the purpose of remarking on
the difficulty of the situation in which the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Robinson) and others were placed in the pre-
seat state of the law. He did not thirsts, by any means, that
the salary of the lkight lion. Gentleman was too high. For
fts part, he would not accept it with the responsibility at-
(ached to it. His only object in rising seas to draw the atten-
tion Of the House to that particular subject. He thought
shelf an alteration should he made in the lawns would remove
flout Gentlemen in office some of the difficulties they were
flow burthened with.

Mr. BENNETT said that when the sufferings of persons
'n office woe spoken of, the sufferings of the people out of
,i
"Is should not he lost sight of. Now many families lived
1111°n 6s. and even Is. Gd. a week, and the consolation to those
'4llO were obliged to remove persons from official situations
thould he that they were lessening the relief if the rest of the
ii`cfikitt• The Honourable Member stated, that. the situation
i; the people of England was changed materially for worse.
le considered reduction necessary in every department. -
Mr. GIN'S supported the motion.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY expressed a hope that
tilie House would not impede the Estimates. When his Right
the
Friend came to plopose his plan of reduction,
'ie noose would find that all establishments had been
piarged, and that all persons bolding offices were placed
t'' new scale of salary. The Right Honourable Gentleman
1,1,4'1 given notice of his motion on Tuesday, and the Noble
I,arquis expressed a hope that Gentlemen would keep their
'ilinds open at least until they heard the plan. He could
tsttre them his Majesty's Government had been assiduous
attending closely to all the recommendations of Puha-
-1,1'"1, and they had no proposition to make unworthy the
Mice of the public. Until the House heard the plan, they
,ail take no steps. It would (
expect found that the per ventage
to what the House ed. A considerable sa-
iPg would be made. The Noble Marquis was persuaded the
"'use would feel there was no difficulty in separating the
i'lloiates front the proposed plan. Every office, and the sa-
of every officer had been considered with reference to re-
duced salaries. A scale of income had been closely followed,
;lid the House would find reductions made in offices upon that
tel4le• There was a reduction in four offices alone of 41.0001.
Ile again begged Gentlemen to wait for the plan, and suffer
the
estimates to proceed.
ALTHORN,. admitted that it would be desirable to
''''sPeod the judgment of the House upon the subject of re-
iuciien, until the plan was submitted for consideration. At
t
vie same time it was not likely the House could go far wills
lie Estimates that night, and he should propose to wait until
"c Ri,ht Hon. Gentleman opened his plan on Tuesday. The
Noble 'Lord then moved, that the Chairman report progress,
and ask leave to sit again.
„Mr. LIUME expressed his surprise that the Noble Marquis
‘rut on voting the Estimates, without putting the House iu
"v3ession of his plan. A Right Hon. Gentleman had
"Meed feeling and compassion for persons in office, but the
te. °eta) distress of the country called for the greatest synn.
„41,1')'s It was well known that the suffering classes were tint
!relic servants. He wished to see reductions from the
Wiest to the lowest offices. The Civil list expense was ex-
''ive• A !eduction of twenty-five per cent. was required
every department.
The Committee then divided upon Mr. Hume's amend-
laent, when the numbers were—
For it
Against it
Majority
t_ k le strangers continued excluded, four more divisions
n place, all of which were alike in favour of Ministers,

fl 9 to 2B 194 to 23
97 to 21 94 to 21
On onr re-admission to the Gallery, we found the Spealw
dlthe Chair, and after the other Orders of the Day were
14posed of, the lluuse adjourned at ONE O'CLOCK this
oMin
g.

MINORITY
LIST OF THE MINORITY OF 21, WHO VOTED FOR THE
A LAST MOTION, WHILE THE DOORS WERE CLOSED.
,111th°rP, Visct. Davies, Col. Moore, Peter
,"rY, Viscount Ellice, Ed. Palmer, C. F.
-1-lennet, Hon.H.G. Ilobhouse, J. C. Ricardo, D.
Bliernal, Ralph Hume, J. Robarts, A.
arrett, S. B. M. James, W. Smith, J.
oncannon L. Lushington, Dr. Williams Wm.
Crespigny,
'Sir IV. Maimly, J. Wood, alderman