The Sun.
London, England, 1825-07-02 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

nity to make that extraordinary defence of the Duke? Wha'
was the information upon which these petitioners proceeded in
reprobating their Commander-in-Chief? Did they know any
thing of the difficulties which impeded the final adjustment and
distribution of the Deccan prize-money?• If; they did, how
came it that they had not imparted any of that, infontat.on
which was so desirable for the..caie ? Would his gallant relit--
, tive undertake to say, that until signing tliis petition, Sir John
Malcolm had ever hien heard of; in the transactions ? Ile re-
peated what he had formerly ti:aitl; that the trustees had con-
ducted themselves in a most unprecedented manner ; and that
if they did not alter their determination, and put_ themselyea,in
communication with the cestui que trust, the greastest
,injustice
would be done to the whole body of the captors.
Sir R. HARDINGE complained of the misstatements and
calamnies of an anonymous pamphlet published against the
Duke of Wellington. The fact was, that until 1823 the trus-
tees.. had nothing to say to the distribution of the prize-money.—
Since then Sir Thomas Hislop had been required to give in a
list of the claimants, which was not delivered nil the sth of
June. So far the fault of the delay was attributable to Sir
Thomas Hislop.. The fact was, that both the Duke of Wel-
lington and 3lr. Arbuthnot had laboured indefatigably in the
business on behalf of the soldiery andnificers of that army for
which no man could. have a higher regard than himself. He
was sorry that he was not in the Douse on a previous even-
ing, when the Hon, Member for Montrose presented a peti-
tion upon the subject, and the Hon. and Learned Civilian op-
posite took occasion to say that a certain written answer given
by the Duke of Wellington was impudent and insolent in
the highest degree. Why, to be sure it was easy for gentle-
men in their places to give utterance to expressions with respect
to others who were of too. high dignity to notice them, which
they would not venture to use to the Members of this House, or
at any rate could not use them without incurring the responsi-
bility of a sharp reply. He did not wish to curtail the liberty
of speech which any member might think proper to claim for
himself ; but it really was difficult for any friend of that noble
person to listen to such language without retortinghis own words
upon the member who would venture so to use it.
Lord FOLKESTONE spoke to order in negligence of
which the Gallant Officer had taken upon himself to refer to a
speech made upon a former evening by his lion. and Learned
riend, although he had not heard it, and was, as he verily
believed, proceeding upon a statement of it by no means
correct.
Sir H. HARDINGE contended for his right in meeting the
assertions Made by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.

The SPEAKER spoke to order.
Mr. CANNING thought that the situation of his Gallant
Friend was particularly hard. He had risen to defend a Noble
Friend of his from an-attack which had been made in his ab-
sence, upon a petition, of the presenting of which no regular
notice had been given, and he was met by the forms of the
House. Had his Gallant Friend possessed a little more of
Parliamentary tactics, he might have effected all that he wanted
without interruption. He might have said, " I have read
somewhere that expressions were used by somebody towards
the Duke of Wellington," and he might have gone on to make

his comments at pleasure.
Sir H. HA RDINGE thanked his Right Hon. Frieni.l. It
did certainly appear to him, that as the practice of the House
in allowing the discussions to go abroad in Newspapers, had
caused the circulation of the calumnies, so lie ought to have as

fair an opportunity for answering them. fleelenied, then, on
the part of Mr. Arbuthnot, that there ever was a design of, ap-;
pointing his son, who was a minor, in his place The state-
ment was false and calumnious. Mr. Arbuthnot's youngest
son was 20 years of age. Be had .taken the opinion of the law
officers upsin the right of appointing his son an agent, and he
was informed that there would be nothiag illegal iii it. Such a
system of clamour and calumny excited against men engaged
in a business so arduous was highly to be deprecated. .The
soldiers bad been taught to expect most unaccountable heaps of
wealth. They looked actually to be paid; as it appeared by the
abominable pamphlet which he held in his hand, for the
public buildings and palaces of Deccan. As well might the
Waterloo Army expect to be paid for the Tuileries ; or
those of the Peninsula to be paid for the palaces of London
and Madrid.
Mr. HUME could not see what reason there was in the peti-
tion fhrthe warmth and agitation which had taken place. it
was not delivered 'entirely without notice, as the Right lion.
Secretary for-Foreign Affairs was pleased to assert.. No notice
could be given to the Duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot,
but the Chancellor of the Exchequer was sufficiently forewarned
as being the properest'person to receive the information. He
must contend still for his opinion, that the trustees had mis-
conducted
themselves in their refusal to give information, •
though they were ready to receive it, and in their other refusal
to comnaunicate with those who were the most deeply interested.
He wondered at the exaggerations which were attributed to the
petition. In what part of it did the petitioners lay claim to tire
price of public buildings, or to the share of any sum like two
millions of money ? On the contrary, their petition expressly
set forth that they had learned that there was a sum amounting
to 700,0001. distributable among the claimants to the booty. All
they asked was information. The trustees most unwarrantably
refused it, and they aline to the House for a remedy.
Sir H. HARDINGE said, that the Duke of Wellington
never had, refused . information ; on the contrary, he had ina
fornied Sir Thomas Hislop that the papers were at his service to
inspect them at the office, he or any of his staff; but he would
not let them be shown to attornies and solicitors.
Mr. S. RICE felt convinced, that if his Hon. and Gallant
Friend had heard the expressions of his Hon. and Learned
Friend, he would see the impropriety of expostulating with any
Member for expressions attributed to him by the reports of
newspapers. ,
Sir H. HARDINGE said, that the discussions of the House
L were circulated by a custom which the House allowed to exist.
Both of the expressions which he had ascribed to the Hon. and
Learned -Gentleman had been inserted in those reports, and
spread round the country. It would better believe any Ho-
nourable 3lember not to find- fault with the reporters, wilt) only
printed the words, if be intended to pass by the Member who
used- them, especially as no expression of regret or retracting
had been.evinced.
The SPEAKER again interposed.—The Hon. and Gallant
Member was proceeding in the most disorderly of all courses
which could be adopted. In the first place, it was contrary to
order to refer to expressions used in a former debate in any
case. In the second place, to refer to representations of a for-
mer debate, which could not be ;circulated without the inter-
vention- of practices in themselves disorderly, was still less to
be tolerated ; but it was more disorderly still to call on any
Member openly for explanation upon the contents of reports
Obtained by a breach of order.
Sir H. lIA RDINGE admitted that he might have been out
of order; but intimated some expectation that the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman would quality or retract some parts of his
former speech.
Mr. BROUGHAM was surprised at the method taken to
obtain explanation by the Hon. and Gallant Member, who had
not condescended to ask a single question in private, as in pru-
dence anti courtesy bound; but came down with a newspaper
report hot upon another lion. Member, and never inquiring_
".did you or did you not use these expressions ?" publicly de-
mended explanation. The Hon. and Gallant Member was not
justified in thus venting his feelings unconditionally. His plan
seemed to be to punish or strike, and then to hear.
Sir H. HA RDINGE said something which was supposed to
imply a request that the words might be.retracted by the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman.
Mr. BROUGHAM resun ed —Then he did complain loudly
• of the conduct of Hon. and Gallant Member. Good God ! was
be' or any other man to come down and let out his fury on any
Gentleman •who might be suspected merely by him of speaking
disrespectfully of the Duke of Wellington, because , he-was a
-friend of that Nobleman, without one preliminary inquiry, and
in a way which must of necessity
.preclude the chance of ex-
planation ? What man of• spirit would stoop to explain, •
even -if he were conscious that the imputations were wrong,
under those circumstances ? Suppose he were to have a similar
grudge against the Hun. anti. Gallant Officer; or any other
Gentleman and were to begin his expostulation thus—" You
infamous fellow, you have here said that which is calumnious
of my friend."—.(symptoms of dissent from Sir 11. Harding,:
and the Chancellor of -the' Exchequer.)---11-e did rot impute
those expi eeions, or any directly like them, to the Ga
Officer; hut in - asking for explanation, there was a w. y of
doing it which might lead to explanation ; there was iintele;r
way witch totally precluded it. He must tell the Hon. 2 n
Gallant Gentleman that neither the high station of the Duke
of Wellington, nor the interest the country held in him, nor.
the vehemence used in defending him by any Member in
that House, could ever -deter either himself or others from
expressirner their opinions frankly. upon their public conduct.
The Duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot might be very
amiable characters in private; but they were in this case pith-
lie men, clOthed with a public trust, and there was public
money concerned in that trust; and as honest stewards to
the public, he and every one-in that House was bound to
scrutinize the Duke's conduct. Be proceeded to express his
.opinion upon this much of that conduct. lie had been con-
sulted p ofeetionally by the attornies anointed by those who
were interested in the booty. Mr. Arbuthitot's son might be of
age now ; but was he not a minor at the time of the appoint.
merit before alluded to ?—(tt No, no.")—Be that fact as it
might, he had given his opinion to the claimants that the
appointment of young Arbuthnot to be the Agent would
have been illegal ; and that by the provisions of tire Prize Act,
a penalty of 5001. would have been incurred by a single trans_
action of his in that appointment. And then, what followed ?.
The gentleman opposite talked of attack. There wits an at-
tack, indeed, made-upon the legal advisers of Sir Hislop—
an attack which was so utterly gross that it could only he ex-
tenuated, it could not be justified by the profound ignorance of

. DECCALNI PRIZE MONEY..
lynet LUSH l NGTON presented a Petition from several
411.1..acrs of considerable rank in the • East India, Army, inte-
rested in the distribution of the Deccan Prize-money, and signed
by Sir John Malcolm, in favour of the appointment of the Duke
of Wellington.and Mr. Arbuthnot as Trustees.
CHANCNI,LOR of the-EXCHEQUER was glad to
hear the ex.pressions of the •petitionerti.. Never were men so
severely -treated i-s the trustees had been. They-knew well what
eibla.luy would attend the discharge of a duty so difficult. They
were aware that the most. extravagant expectations were enter-
tainel by both officers and men as to the amount of the booty.
'They knew. that the claims made were'too exorbitant, compris-
ing as they. did two millions of money.,: and the expectation cf
being paid even for• the public buildings and palaces. Any
other men would. have shrunk from such a responsibility. The
Duke of Wellington had been advised to have nothing to -do
with it; but with a magnanimity not surprising in him, he
cow-Mercd that no man in the service could be better acquainted
with that array, and the whole of the circumstances .of the cap-
ture,- and therefore en man was better qualified for the task than
himself. And fror.i first to last, since he had taken the subject
into his hands, he had been met by nothing but obloquy and
inisrenreaentation, reproaches arid calumnies, the most unfoun&
ed and the least deserved.
Dr. LUSH INg TON, notwithstanding the warmth of tone
and expression adopted by the-Right-Hon. Gentleman, persist-
ed in the assertion which he had made on a previous evening—
that the behaviour of the Duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuth-
not, as trustees of that booty, had been most unprecedented.—
, lie was surprised at this new zeal of. justification on behalf of
that Noble Duke. And then the petition which his Hon.
and gallant relative had just presented, from whom did it come ?
From a part of Sir T. Ilialop's army, which army had called
upon him to make that representation which the petitioners,
parties interested, now -ventured to reprobate in their Corn-
mandsr-in-Chief. 'Did it not look as if this petition had been
got up in consequence of what took , places few nights ago,
with a view to giving the Right Hon. Gentleman an opportu-

the law evinced by the Trustees. They offered to show Sir
Thomas Hislop, Major and Colonel Wood, the documents
on condition that they did not show them to the lawyers 1 And
the ground of this prohibition was still more offensive—" be-
cause there was.too great a disposition in certain quarters to
entertain law proceedings." Now the love of lawyers for liti
gation was a vulgar, gross, and every-day- charge made against
lawyers.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.)—and the
alight Hon. Gentleman, perhaps, in this particular, wished to
be counted among the gross and vielgar crowd out of doors.
At any rate, it was a stale charge, it was as old as the hills,
and of i tacit oritirjual source of merriment to the profession.
It was, however, utterly groundless. Four out of every five
opinions given by lawyers were against the case submitted to
them. Ile himself frequently told clients that they had no
.Case, to keep them gut of Court, though in principle they might
have a very good case, but not one which would repay the ex-
pence and trouble of a- suit. But now who were these lawyers
did the House suppose ? He admitted, that for himself and
his Learned Friend near him (Dr. Lushington) nothing
could be said : they were lawyers without redemption. But
Dr..lenner. was, joined with them in .their opinion—a man as
little 'of a Whig as any Gentleman opposite—a very worthy
lawyer, with an eacellent Tory spirit. Next was Mr.
Adam, a King's Counsel=-a man of no violent politics,
scarcely any politics at all, and a friend to the Duke of Wel-
lington. Then who else was there ? Oh ! what if a Judge
was amongst them ?. What if Lord Wellington, as a Cabinet
Minister, had since joined in recommending this person to the
Crown as a fit associate among the Twelve Judges of the land.
Mr. Gaselee had joined them in their opinion. Then there
was iilr. William Harrison, the known familiar of the Tree-
ettry—who, " most unkindest act of all," turned upon them.
Really, people who talked of attacks unjustifiable, and so forth,
ought to have in remembrance the old adage of the danger of
persons who live in certain houses, throwing stones.. For this
very Nobleman, who seemed to be so very touchy by repre-
sentation, and who had been so touchily defended by the
gallant officer, did not scruple to make this unjustifiable
attack upon the profession and character of the respect-
able lawyers whom he had named. He was only stating
what his duty compelled him to state ; and undoubtedly,
on the other hand, time lawyers ought not to have been at-
tacked in the way they had been. With respect to the pant- •
phlet, which had been alluded to as calumnious and libellous.
he could only state that he had read the greater part of
.it, anti
that it appeared to him to be a niece detail of the correspon-
dence, and that time few. observations that were interspersed
were in every respect temperate and respectful. It contained
no charges, and left the public to draw their own inferences,
anti to form their own opinions, upon the correspondence
which it detailed. Besides, if it was a libel, the Courts of
Law were open to the parties ; they were open to the in-
dividual complained of as well as to the Duke. An ac-
tion at law would bring to light the whole of the matter:
The party's guilt or innocence of the charge would then he
established. If guilt was not proved, no apology would be
due—if guilt could be proved, the parties on whose behalf the
Hon. and Gallant General had spoken would become the clients
of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Attorney-General ; and
the other parties would be represented by other Ilon. and
Learned Friends whom he knew in this House. And this
course of proceeding, he begged to say, would be much better
and more decent than talking in big words there.
Sir H. HAHDINGE and Mr. BROUGHAM mutually ex-
plained.
Mr. PEEL really -thought there existed some great misap-
prehension. on this matter. .He had certainly heard his Hon.
and Gallant Friend speaking with great warmth and. anima-
tion.; but certainly he had not heard him utter any expres-
sion that could be justly considered offensive to the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman. He did think that his Hon. and Gallant
Friend was mistaken, in the first instance, in attributing the
language alludsd to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman ' • but he
must say that he thought he had heard that Learned Gentle-
man use very extraordinary language. The last declaration
made by the Gallant Officer, that he was not aware there
would be a petition presented to-night, and that there would' be
any opportunity of entering into such a discussion, must im-
mediately establish to everybody's satisfaction, that whatever
his Hon. and Gallant Friend had said was said without preme-
ditation. By this fact was still further made out by the consie
aeration that if he had uttered ens/thing which could really and
justly be considered by the•Honse as offensive, the Speaker
would necessarily hate directly interposed to order. Now -the
chair had not so interposed, facepting only on that part of. the
speech where his lion. and Gallant Friend had ieferred to what
had passed at a former Parliamentary debate, which reference
was declared to be irregular. For his own part he (Mr. Peel) • • . ADJOURNMENT.
could say that he even had not seen the pamphlet referred to, . Mr..CANNING moved that the House, on its rising, do
and so he could not speak to the passages that had been called Adjourn to Tuesday next.—Agreed to. . • .
in question ; but two individuals of higher character, of finer • YEOMANRY.
honour, or more disinterested application to the duties of office, • Mr. S. WORTLEY said he wished to know from the. Right
than the Duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot, it would non. Gentleman opposite if it was the intention of Government
have been impossible to select for the difficulty and 'responsible to give any Additional allowances to the Yeomanry Cavalry of
' discharge of this trusteeship. And when he coositlered the the country.
.
greatsportioo of time and attention which the Noble Duke must . Air. Secretary PEEL said no man held the services of the
devote, apart from his other public occupations, to this arduous Yeomanry Cavalry in higher estimation than he, but he was not
queetion he must be permitted to say that such reflections as disposed at present to make any addition to their allowances.
those which had been thrown out against him were a bad return. There were some erroneous ideas. upon the subject, in conse-
for all the readiness with which be had accepted time execution• quence of which, several of the Yeomanry corps had sent in
of this duty. their resignation, not on account, of any unwillingness on the
Mr. CANNY:aII had been endeavouring to bring to his re-
part of the men, but under an impression that alterations were
.
collection as distinctly as possible. what were the expressions to be made. - Thole resignations were willingly received by the
fallen from the llon. and Learned Gentleman on a Government, which returned its thanks, and expressed its gra.
tittitie for the services of these corps. There were temptations
former night, and had been -this evening commented on by his
Hon. and Gallant Friend behind him. lie could not, however, formerly to enter into the Yeomanry which did not exist at
recollect with certainty much of what the Hon. anti Learned present—such as the exemption from' taxes, which were now
-
repealed. -He was now applied to, for the purpose of creating
Gentlemanon that occasion said, hut in regard Co the applica-
tioa which- hail -been made by his Hon. and Gallant Friend of exemptions from filling civil offices—such as that of 'constable,
the word " insult" or "insolence," it appeared to him ( lr. in favour of those who became Yeomen. This required great
Canning) that the word, if used, was meant to apply, not to consideration. If we retain the Yeomanry, we should not make
any individual, but to that letter of which so much • had been the office of constable less respectable. If the allowances made
said, and that passage in it wherein it now aPneared a clerical to the Yeomanry upon permanentwlety were not sufficient, he
error had been committed. To the passage as it stool there, lie would prefer. their increase to any indirect inducement which
understeeni the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to have applied mar have injurious effects upon. other offices that.shoOld be
the epithet " insolent," or the substantive "insolence." It upheld. . • •
was printed "the said William Harrison." instead of "ahe Mr.. LITTLETON was glad that several small troops,
said dlr. Harrison ;" but in the original manuscript which were of no service, and which only received „their pay,
letter, it seemed, time word "Mr." was inserted. Having had sent-in their resignations. 'I he remaining corps would be
stated this fact, which appeared to obviate the objections that more respectable: Further inducetnents should be held- out to
had arise i out of in fact a misprint, he must add, that he per- become yeomen in those counties where such a. force was indis-
fectly con nirred with his Right Hon. Friend in- thinking, that Peasabla necessara•
it was no hart of the:Hon. and Learned Gentleman's duty to get Mr. aIAI3ERLY approved highly of the conduct of the
up in suc m a quarter. Perhaps the same objection did not apply Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. All the corps which were
to ate explanation (if we understood the Right Hon. Gentle- inefficient should be called in. He himself , commanded a
man rigimly) on his part. . . . corps which was inefficient; and if the matter came to dis-
Dr. LaIsaINGTON, after what had been. said by the Hon. cussion, he would vote that it should either be struck off or do
Gentleman, would rather part with his existence than submit- its duty. He did not approve of exemptions from civil offices.
to the degradation of explaining.—( Hear, hear !)—He could -He preferred an increase of pay.
not think of explaining a single expression that he had uttered; Mr. Secretary PEEL thought the yeomanry corps should be
for not oily had the words he had used on a former night been placed, as often as possible, consistently with public economy,
commented on by the Hon. and Gallant. Member for Durham, .upon permanent duty, and should, during this period, be sub.
but com vented on in this way, while.that Hon. Member had ject to a strict and severe inspection.
in his own hands the very original manuscript of the letter in • EVACUATION OF SPAIN.
question which contained upon the face of it time explanation Mr. BROUGHAM rose for the purpose of asking the Right
of what -he (Dr. bushingtoo) had said on that former occasion. -Hon. Gentleman opposite a question, to which he trusted he
Knowing that he (Dr. Lushington) had commented upon that would receive an explicit and satisfactory answer. During•the
which now turned out to be, in point of fact, a misprint from -course of the Session he had most cautiously abstained from
the original, the Hon. and Gallant Member seemed to. think broaching the subject, from a disinclination (if he bad no other
himself justified in coming down there and expressing the reason) of involving this Government with that of France. He
strongest reprobation of a condnet occasioned by that error abstained from this topic, because he was fearful lest he . should
which himself at the same time pointed out to the House's interfere with Ministers in the delicate and difficult negociations
observation. He ( Dr. Lushiegton) should have betrayed his that might be going on. He.was fearful lest discussions should
duty as a Member of Parliament—he should have been desti- arise here which may excite pain .in the minds of persons in
tute of the courage of it man—he should have been utterly un- poWer in. France and Austria, and produce dangerous, if' not
worthy to sit in that House for a single moment, if' he conde- fatal,consequences to those illustrious and gallant prisoners who,
scendad to enter into one sentence of explanation.—(Bear, martyrs to that cause to which they have devoted themselves,
hear !)—lrritatedfer, a moment he certainly might have been ; have willingly sacrificed all that is dear to man. For liberty they
intimidated he never could be—(Heave Meer !)—and if he have sacrificed all except their honour, which they have retained
could think it worth while to explain-we any individual, he un- pure and unsullied. He abstained from the subject because he
doubtedly would not do so on this osreataion. Now, as to what was fearful lest, with the best intentions, he might undo that for
time Hon. Member for Durham had said in describing the lan- which he was most anxious, and add to the effects of that violent
guage used by him (Dr. Lushington) on a former night; to the and unjust policy pursued towards these individuals:by, the
best of his• recollection the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman had -Powers to which he alluded, and an alteration in which would
stated it quite accurately, except as to one word. The word entitle them to the highest gratitude of all countrieee even -of
insolence" had never passed his lips; he shOnld have..consie those not well disposed towards them. He abstained, during the
dered it, under any circumstances,- a ferry unbecoming and Session, frem making inquiries respecting Spain, for. fear time
improper term to employ ; he should have thought it indecent. Holy Alliance should become a 9uestion of discussion, anti lan-
But, knowing that the. paper was signed by Mr. Harrison, who gliage would probably be used irritating to others, and conic-
was a learned and eminent Counsel, the law adviser of the Trea-
-quently injurious to the illustrious men of whom he had spoken :
sury, and the brother or a Secretary of a Board at which Mrs but now, as the Session had drawn to a close, there could be
Arbuthnot sat, he might possibly have characterised the letter -no discussion of an irritating nature, as the subject would be
as an insulting 1etter........( Hear !)—The House could not call reduced to the narrowest. possible limit. He would ask his
upon him to say more, titan that he had been, therefore, mis- Majesty's Ministers a question—Upon a former occasion he re-
taken upon a matter which any individual would have -been membered it was said, the French troops were to retain posses-
mi taken about who had not seen the original manuscript. He sion of Spain until Ferdinand was restored to power. Ferdinand
wished to remark, before he sat down, that it was a mistake to was most unhappily (as he thought)
long restored to power;
suppose that lie had been counsel for Sir Thomas Hislop. lie- and it might now be said that-the French • are -to retain posses-
had been counsel in this case for the Marquis-of Hastings ; and sion of SFain
until he be restored to what they may he pleased
all those feelings and passions which could be supposed to have to call full power. If such be the case, they • have a carte
been excited in him as a lawyer'' and an advocate were in fa- blanche—they have unlimited possession. The a'rench held at
your of the marquis of Hastings, amid against Sir T. Hislop; present various fortresses—St. Sebastian, and he believed Cadiz.
put he thought it but just to Sit Hislop to notice the Their army in the Peninsula amounted, it was understood, to
question in the way he had done; and. under the impression 30 or 40,000 men. This occupancy may be said to be lawful as
upon which he had acted, he had :done 'what he conceived to long as France say
be his duty. • 'says this is my policy, and as long as Ferdinand
says it is his also: but it is our policy to prevent it, because it
Sir HENRY HW RDINGE begged to repeat, that'the par- is unsafe for Europe, and contrary to the old policy of this
titular worn which he complained ot he thought to be a very country. They might allege, as another ground a defence,
improper cne ; and if it had been employed, as he conceived it that as long as there was a
_struggle in the New NVorld, they
had been by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he still thought should keep the French troops •in Spain, and regiments
it very improper.—(Hear !) - of Swiss Guards in Madrid, for the purpose of being
Lord .1. RUSSELL in this letter observed that.the Duke of enabled -to send Spanish regiments to. fight _the freemen at'
Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot said, " they had observed South America. This, as a defence, was also unfounded. It
throughout the consideration of this,question a strong desire on could not justify .the occupation -upon the part of France.
the part of some to go to law. NOW,.certainly, if this expres. The policy-of that country must be looked upon as most dan.
;ion wee meant to apple to the lawyers who had been retained gerous, as most .alarming, by anyperson who reflected upon
in the case, it _was an..offensive one. ~It was, in that event, as the balance of . power that ought to be .preserved. What mu

much offensive as it would be to say that the Duke of Welling-
ton, being a great Captain himself, was for our going to war-;
the inference being that war would be profitable to him. But
the other part of this letter seemed to spew that no such reflec-
tion was intended ; and that the. passage applied not to the law-
yers, but to those who employed them; for it imported" that
there was to be no reference to counsel or attornies, except on
points previously referred to their decision."
Mr. BROUGHAM was much obliged to his Noble Friend
for taking the-trouble to give this explanation to the House;
but he could assure him the words wouldot bear any such
construction. This prohibition to refer to the ',,counsel and at-
tonnes, though accompanied 'by such an excention, was of a
dangerous nature. There were some seven of them in all ; and
he must say that he wondered at such a regulation levelled by
two Members of the Government against men, among whom
was a gentleman whom he had the' pleasure of knowing very
well—a most eminent and respectable solicitor, the founder of
the Pitt Club.-.--(llear !)—Now, to be sure this club, calling
itself after Mr. Pitt, did in fact reject all the old Pittites ; and
Under a peculiar sort of notion of the matter, admitted none but
those whose principles were really contrary to the principles
of Mr. Pitt.—(A laugh.)—Still this gentleman was the oldest
Member of the Pitt Club; and to him no imputation like that
thrown out in the letter could apply; for not to mention.
that in a business so extensive act his was, a single additional
cause would be mere moonshine, it did so happen that in this
case of the Deccan prize-money it would be more lucrative to
him not to go to law at all, but to have the undisturbed ma-
nagement of his clients' interests in the distribUtion.
Sir R. FERGUSSON must say that his Hon. and Gallant
Friend used some language on this occasion which he (Sir R.
Fergusson) could net feel to be proper. Whatever his Hon.
aad Gallant Friend might think of the letter, there was a. great
difference in point of the notion conveyed to men's minds be.
tween the phrase of " the said W. Harrison," and " the said
Mr. W. Harrison." That the Honourable and Gallant
Gentleman., conceiving that a friend of his—and such a
friend, ton, as the Duke of Wellington—had been spoken
-of disrespectfully, should be betrayed into some degree of
warmth was perfectly natural ; but now that .he perceived
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Dr. Lushington) had spoken
upon a former night in reference to 'the phrase in print,-
which was this day proved, however, to be incorrectly printed,-
lie (Sir R. Fergusson) did trust the Hon.- and Gallant Member
would be prevailed on to express his regret for any excess of
warmth that he might have been led into. In .giving this ad-
vice, he begged to assure the lion. and Gallant Gentleman that
he never could advise an Hon. Friend like himself, and more
especially one who belonged to the same service with himself,
to any course of proceeding that might in the slightest degree be
derogatory to his character. On the contrary, he was now sug-
gesting exactly what he would suggest, under similar circum-
stance: to his own brother.—( Hear !)
Sir H. HARDINGE declared, that really if any Hon. Gen-
tleman would undertake to-point out to him a single unparlia-
mentary expression that he had employed,' he would not hesi-
tate a moment to retract it, and express even his regret for it.
Whether, however, the Doke of Wellington in his letter had
made use of the words " Harrison" or " Mr. William
Harrison," it could affbrd no justification of the term "inso-
lent," as applied to that letter. This was'a word, as he appre-
hended, altogether indefensible.
The SPEAKER said, that he rose with the. double purpose
of bearng his testimony, to the best of recollection, as to whit
had really been said; and at the same time of apologizing to the
House for the great omission of which he had been guilty, if he
was wrong in supposing that nothing unparliamentary had fallen
froM the Hon. and Gallant Officer. Now his impression was
to that effect; and had it been different, he (the Speaker) would
have been unpardonable for neglecting to interrupt the Hon.
Member at.the time. The Hon. Member had just expressed
his entire willingness to retract any thing unparliamentary that
might have fallen from him ; and by so doing he had done him-
self the highest honour, and no more than justice to the House,
as well as to himself (the Speaker), if he might be permitted
to say so, becauSe he then intimated a belief that the Speaker
would have apprised the House of any disorderly observations
had he been conscious of them.
Mr. PEEL, submitted that theamconsciouanes of any Hon.
Gentleman that he was giving offence by any observations was
a aufEcient apology in respect of those observations.
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that he certainly had been hurt
at having insolence imputed to him ; but as the Gallant Officer
had declared that he• was unconscious of having used or in-
tended any thing offensive, he was satisfied.—(hear, hear !)
The petition was brought up, and read, and ordered to be
printed.

not the consequence be Oa war were to occur, with the iron
coast of Ireland (situated as that country is) exposed not to the
troops of Spain, for those we would not fear, but to the troops
of France. He therefire asked for information respecting the
evacuation of Spain, and he; trusted he would receive a satis-
factory answer. He asked the qudstion' at the close of a Ses-
sion in which two Acts had betn pasSed with little opposition,
to which he could not advert without regret. He perbaps
should not allude to the policy practised towards Ireland, as
that appears to stand upon a pecidiar footing. or' its own,
though, in this respect, the House had not so anuch to con,
plain of' the manner in which it had sated, as of not
having received support elsewhere. The other enactment
which-he regretted was that which he would called the Act for
increasing the dependence of the Judges. He had asked all
i those in the profession—those who were next in succession to
the Bench, and they all agreed that 5,5001. were too much for
a Puisne Judge. There was, however, he was glad to say,
one mistake corrected, where corrections were nut generally
made, and contrary to the practice of certain high quarters.—
An increase was given to a most meritorious and deserving
Judge—the Vice-Chancellor was placed upon an equality with
the Master of the Rolls. It was said that the House would be
sorry to see this Judge under-paid ; but surely this would be
the case when Puisne Judges received 5,5001. a year. An in-
dividual holding the state and filling the situation of Vice-
Chancellor, should not be worse paid than other Judges. He
regretted that he had not brought this subject before the House
at an earlier period of the Session; it was, however, never too
late to do an act of justice.
Sir. Secretary CANNING would inform the Learned Gen-
tleman that he might take it for granted that the subject to
which he directed attention had not escaped the eyes of his
Majesty's Ministers. It had occupied their attention, it occu-
pied it still. He was prepared to say that he had received the •
most decided assurances from the French Government that
there was not the slightest shadow of intention to•continue the
occupation of the fortresses of Spain. So far from retaining
these fortresses, • of which so much had been heard, the
French were reducing them according to the orders of Spain.
And he had the assurance of the Spanish Government,'
that not 'a sons of French money was expended upon
them. Of the truths of these statements he was perfectly
satisfied. In the month of December a distinct application
wes made to the French Government for a disclosure of

its intentions- with regard to Spain. The army of occitpation
was then. educed to 22,000 men. These troops were to be with-
drawn in' the. month of April, and the withdrawal .either has or
is in the act of takingplate ; he could not state the precise pe-
riod at which the remainder were to be withdrawn. This eon.'
sideration would lead to a larger view and a wider scope than.
were proposed by the Learned Member. The feelings of the
French Government upon this subject were widely different
from those attributed to them by the Learned Member, for
neither he (d r. Canning) nor the Learned Gentleman, could
be • more desirous of having these troops withdrawn than that,
very Government. This result would have appeared if the.
objects foretold by the French and Spanish Governments had
occurred. -When these.might occur it was utterly impossible
for him to say.. He could inform the Learned Member, that
he did not feel the slightest degree of alarm, apprehension, or
jealousy upon the
.subject, and he was sure the French had
bonape intentions of evacuating Spain.
Lord JOHN RIISSEI4L said a few words which were in
audible in the gallery. The Noble Lord made some allusion.,
to Conventions made between. France arid Spain.
Mr. Secretary CANNING would remind the Noble Lot&
that the first convention respecting the evacuation made be-
tween the countries was definite as to time ; the latter was per'.
fectly indefinite, and might be brought to a conclusion, • not ac-
cording to the pleasure of Ferdinand, but that of the French
government.'

Lord JOHN RUSSELL hoped the French Government'
would deeM it most Consistent with expediency and good pnlici
to withdraw the troops as speedily as possible. Whilst upon
this subject he could not refrain from saying it was a melan'-
choly spectacle to see men of the best and kindest disposition*
in Italy, perhaps in the world, immured in dungeons, con'
demned to the work of galley slaves, suffering privations that
would appear intolerable to • the meanest manufacturer in d'
country. It was an afflicting spectacle to see men of the higheA
rank in society, accustomed to the enjoyment of all the plea:'
sures of social and literary life, thus reduced. He would o°`
speak harshly of the Government of Austria, but it would coo"
ciliate the friends of all parties by relaxing. the severity. of,
treatment towards those unfortunate persons, and by acting 3, •
if it supposed the time to be arrived when a -system of
went was no longer essentially, necessary for its.preservatien.
Lee li'4lll
Sir R. WILSON thought that as long as the spring of,tD;
Spanish Government .Was -.directed by -the holy Alliance, v.
would be vain to. xpect principles of faith or good government
from that country.
Mr.
would bSeecpreertafercytleyAsatNisNiiledN d
at hiedarin ontgittralv the
ttitnnheeNfo.orbt
p eventsy i
n e ,evacuationfictce
shouldwha ,bnieoveten him
leiedsaiylse
diminished
lyt
oe. 0
bnieteaildlnaliseufr.pngttill,a
thttltite at all
_ - POOR RATES.

miLottzdtoFeOxlatinEeS
~:tosnthdevricycohrthaoft
bthecene:42;,_i,
recently delivered from the vote office, observed.that this gip'!"
'pro? rNrEa rates irk eutduirnngs
report which called for the most serious attention of the
and of the Government of the country. From this Or I,OW'
would appear that the poor rates had decreased. Thi., 01.
ever, was a fallacy. They had in reality incretved:
sulations were erroneous; and this error proceeded from coa°
cuinstance.of the price of wheat not having been taken ist,,6
t t 1
sideration, and with ref:let-4e to the four periods to Whic'
report was referable. ' rov
After a few words fromGunNEY and -
TErr Ar, the conversation dropped. . . .
• BUENOS AYRES.
• Mr. BARING said thztt one of the

• o(
with tll6 ,tinet4

he treaties

American States had beelf-Aaid upon the table, and that etc:-09
soon would be—he alluded to the treaty with the State of 43tleet
Ayres. But he now wished to know whether it was by accla
or design that the Minister of that State was not preiel,,te this
the King? lie begged to assure the House that he tnaf,"e„tie'
inquiry without the knowledge of the very respectable t'ellorie
man who was the Minister of-that State. .He-would „to'
to another circumstance, namely, as to_ the course to be rag
sued towards many of the officers who had, with great coarte of
and patriotism, entered-into" foreign service. In the then at' tea,
things, perhaps, the policy pursued might have been tolcra eta
for the sake of our allies. But now that the battle of indeFlo'
Bence had been fought and gained, he thought abet
~tavl4din.
vision of the Foreign -Enlistment Bill, enal.ling.—cniln°done
formers to inform against such officers, shoulti• now he '
lice
away. The law was enacted. upon political grounds, att.:ol4V
necessity- for its continuance having passed away, he t` an."
they should return to the old and wholesome state of the lasso,
We ourselveS had officers in the service of Russia, Prk/eace,
Austria, and Spain- and he thought that, in time of .11.:tii'
officers should be allowed to keep up • their martial sp":08
the service of other countries. France was now, doing We' the
thing; and he merely threw. out _these observations for
consideration of Ministers during the recess. • wits'
Mr,PEEL regretted that the first question was not pu.th the
his Right Hon. Friend was in the House; as he left it viltl„ tro
notion that he would not , be called for. With. respect `"totet
other Powers alluded to, nothing had occurred in Europe
the determination of this Government in their regard. 0
ragard to the power of preventing the enlistment of -sub.lv_noet
the King into Foreign service, he would say that such 3 f/i_
ought to exist-in the Crown. As to the next point, natneforeiet
power of informing against officers who had enlisted in_sto
service, he could only say that no inconvenience as yet " •
from it, for no one information had yet -been laid.
BOARD OF TRADE
ot . f
Mr. BARING wishcd to put anher question as e totaoot
office of his Right Hon. Friend the President of t" Gentle.;
of Trade. Every man'-who knew'what that Right Hon- that 14
man had to do, and the salary he received,. must knrctry 'se
-was totally inadequatel to remunerate him. .His itUrt
only equalled by his knowledge, and would be unlielaor
House, and-in-the atitintry, not to pay him linerallY. to chi.
the attention of the Government would be directed
subject.
Mr. PEEL fully agreed with the observations of the eto d)
'Member. No man could Ibrin more zeal and abilla,
re.
discharge of any public duty than his Right Hon. irteereriod,
he agreed with the Hon. Member, that few wen 11, is Pray,
actuallytadmitted
itto
huentalesrutol e.eectonhsi
inadequately remunerated: He could not say that `t.oove,:ei:
mcueloart,iinmatttehre
awdanalt
te
attention. . . • i,
Sir R.- WILSON wished to know if the Minister e` the
cognised State of South ameriea would be received I's
tG
ulster of any European*rn
• in fro
Mr. PEEL said, that was not the question p to tea
Hon. Member. It was as to Whether lie was prevrcertitinriel
attending by accident or design. He could say Wit':,,casi°,ct,
that the non-attendante of that Minister was nntea-n 0,4 01i
by any representation - from any or alt the En'n,P"," tint"
which could have no influence whatever with this
such a subject. aor Pe';
: On the motion that the House do adjourn to Toes, e
Mr. HUME objected to the present amount of ti'ce ,re•
unnessary for our security at home, or our independer' a he roe'
igdhelryation o tt,
lie hoped Ministers would consider the subject, arit se6s
descry"
Fared to reduce it by:the commencement .6f the ne% ,a lie
Ile protested tv, •
against extensive establishments, altk°linti.
mitred that much good had: been done during 'the dis
INDIA.
Sir C. FORBES said, he was extremely aorli;enifr,
House should separate without any information sisallgY
before them as to die present state of India. pi,„„n6Pgat.r
believed, listl been received in the ecret.DePg'-

Court of Director, which had not yet been produced, and those
clispatcheis should, in his opini, be laid before the House.

C. W. W. WYNN did P. ot see any ground for the
observation of the Lion. Baronet. He knew of no information
having been received from India of a later date than that which
Was generally known. If dispatches had been received in the
secret Department of the East India Company from India,
they would, as a matter of duty, be laid before the Board of
Controul. _ _ _

Mr. fIUME complained of the neglect of Government in not
furnishing the House with ample information on the•subject of
the present unfortunate war in India. The letters from every
Part of India, of Madras, Bombay, • and Calcutta—from civil
And military officers, from the residents in different quarters—
all proved that no confidence was placed in the Government of
India, as it was now constituted.

Mr: C. W. W. WYNN said,. as we understood, that some
delay had occurred in the receipt of advices in India, the cause
of which he was not aware of.
Sir C. FORBES expressed his surprise that they had, as yet,
no report with respect to the abominable transaction that had
taken place at Barrackpore.
An Hon. MEM BE it under the gallery deprecated any discus-
Sion on this point, until the report of the Commissioners,
Which had been appointed to inquire into the melancholy busi-
nett alluded to, had been received in this country.
On the motion of Mr. PEEL, the Lords' amendments to the
Writs of Error Bill were taken into consideration.
Mr. W. SMITH and Mr. ABERCROMBY made a few
Observations against the clause granting compensations to cer-
tain Officers in the Court of Bing's Bench : they would not,
1
2wever, press their objections, as the general principle of the
43111 had their entire approbation.
In answer to a question from Mr. tr ME, Mr. PEEL stated,
that. he had, in conformity with the address of that House, re-
‘t°Tended to his Majesty the appointment of Commissioners to
uel„4e the statute book. At the same time, he did not look
ItTLthat as the best mode of effecting so desirable an object.
"i,lnself meant to proceed as he had begun, in consolida-
tne law upon different subjects.—(Hear!)—Next Session
e hoped to be able to introduce a measure for the consolitla-
,!yn of the statutes relating to larceny and several other offences.
The amendments were then agreed to.
Jl'll2 other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
'louse adjourned till Titesday neat.