The Sun.
London, England, 1825-05-27 00:00:00

by proxy was not enough to -satisfy him. The Crown
at the commencement ofthe Sepiotr,r,eqommetidedParlianietit
to suppress the taihOlic 71`hat. step was taken
upon ittfOrmation received frOM his Majesty's Viceroy in
Ireland, and eould.. tilt- the 'isetirrg,,, fairly towards that Noble
Person to withhold the information communicated. With
respect to the tate, of the Cathplic:telief x.ll, they under.
stood it was irregular to advert to*.the proceedings of an,
other place, although• every snioking house and .alelinxe in
the United Kingdoni had the ,privilege of dictiSaing err that
occurred Within the walls of that niece the lipase of Com Mons
could not name. He trii.gV. however, allude to a very; Strong
libel which had been Published, and which lie expected to see
prosecuted in England and Ireland. Ile alluded to a speech
purporting to be that of an Illustrious Person., printed by Ben-
bow, the convicted ,libeller of his ,:Majesty's male and female
subjects. A speech had been circulated tvhich._never was
spoken. • One colporicut of the article. was no less than a Peer.
—He had circulated the .libel, having previously A'
criminal information was doubtklis on. the unless the At-
torney-General had given the person who . published the libel
an opportunity to deny. on .oath• that it was spoken by the
Royal Duke., ._•Nothing could ..he more injurious to the Wits-
trious Person than to make him , say he would govern upon a
scale of his own-when lie came.to the throne. • James Second
never dreamed of •govermitig. Protestants, as the scandalous
libeirnade an Illustrious. Person wish to govern.the Roman Ca-
tholics. He recommended his Right. Hon. and Learned Friend
not to file a criminal
.information on the first day of Term,
but take an assertion on oath that the publication was false.—
Some allusion had been made during the discussion .of the re-
jected Bill to the Seven Bishops, and it had been asked whether
these Seven Bishops had .been influenced by interestod, mo-
tivtli. The-Seven Bishops opposed arbitrary,Monarch, and
were ready•to go to the scaffold. Their firmness was not to
get prouiotion,• but the object of the Bishops of the present, day
was to get from one See to another. The only danger they rail
at present was:that of Court interest. What would be said to.
the declaration ef a, Learned Judge derogatory to the Bight
Hon. Gentle Man, • the Attorney-General for.,lreland. Lord
Eldon had said he was a great lawyer before the disrespectful,
words were uttered in the debate mpon the Roman' Catholic
Belief Itillitow -was that to be reconciled ! Whatever the
speeches might -be, and the hope that the Catholic question
would be -set -at•rest, it never would be set'at rest—until jus-
tice was done to six millions of people, Itoppeared to him ex.
traordinary•that the country was governed by a Ca,,,inet which
v.:night agree upon a Joint Stock Company concern but could
'not it grree upon queStipn of vital importance to the country.
Alr.-Pitt had, for example, said, that although it was ques-
Sion of the last importance, and one to which lie was himself
attached, he could not press it against the conscientious objec-
tions of the late Kiug. -'That argument did not, however, apply
to the present . King. He was not, to he sure, a very young
nian ; he was well
.stricken in.years. Ile had not, however,
attained the same venerable age at which his father !radar-_
rived, and he entertained no conscientious scruples on this urea-
sure:- On the contrary it was generally; and he believed with
reason, supposed that •his present Majesty was favourable to
the question of Catholic emancipation., He hadiven a pledge„
of lita opininn!.in:the year 1768; and he' {Mr. Brougham) ap-,
l'S'aled to the Members of the Cabinet (as we understorid" the;
and- Learned Member)- .to say Whether his Majesty's
opinions were not still.unchanged.. •
Mr.-Secretary: CANNING- rose to order, and said, that no
Privy Councillor of his Majesty could give any answer to the
question of the Hon. Member, who he was sure must perceive
the impropriety of persisting in a course of argument from
Which no result-cooldbe ObtainciL --,(Hear, hear !) . •
Mr. BROUGHAM acknowledged that much latitude had
been used in the debate; he might, therefore, stand excused if
he had urged that which upon cool reflection appeared to be
irrelevant. He could not, however, help again pressing upon
the eonsideratiOn of the House the fact of the extraordinary di-
vision which had taken place in the Cabinet upon this all-iin-
Portant question. The was a Lord Lieutenant of Ireland
favourable, to the question, corresponding with the Home Se-
cretary of State, who was opposed to it; and an Under Secre-
tary at variance with the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Attorney-
General *for Ireland) who formed so prominent a part of the
Cabinet.- We heard the one saying, that no reliance could be
Placed npon the Catholic Priesthood—whilst the other would
not have as word uttered against- that venerable Body. It was
difficult to reconcile those opposite opinions—if it were' has.
Many, it war

" Harmony least understood."
Ile hoped, hOwever, that the enlightened part of the present ad
ministration would shake off their trammels, and make a stand
for Allis great question. If they did so, the effort, wh .u.ele; they
"lucceeded or failed, would cover them with immortal glory. But
tiie had
no fear of their failure. Those who supported this quex-
- Were backed by the voice of the people, and he was stare that
4°111.e -motives which' prevented the Right Gentleman
r• tanning) from leaving his native-country, would ke used
to from leaving, he would not say, his native-place,n
hear ! j•,..but one upon which he had conferred:so much
honour. These were his( Mr. Brougham's)-opinions. He was,
sorry that he could not
give them the effect he wished. He
trusted however that some compromise would he entered into
which would save Ireland. lithe Ministers of this country
1. ere, bower or, unwilling to enter into such compromise, he
should not despair, notwithstanding, of the safety of Ireland—for
while she had •the intrinsic right of her cause, backed by num-
bers to support-it, there could belie) doubt. f her ultimate sue-
eess- That success was not however to be obtained by violence
,
l).-4nit, by steady opposition, and under such circitru.
stances no Government, he was 'sure, would refuse to concede a
measure which was called for, alike:by justice and sound polity.
(Henri hear I)
Ur. 11. MARTIN hoped his Hon._ Friend would ' not press
hi'.M9tion to a division. If he did so; it wOUld, he was sure,
te.negatived by a large majority, and he submitted to his Min:
▪ end whether such a result would not have the effect of con.'
vmcing the people of this country that the question was more
unpopular than ft really was.'
balr. PLIINXETT did not wish to follow the example of his
'°°. and Learned Friend in wandering frOm the question'.
The Honourable Gentleman had remarked-that the Nobre Lord
4t the head of the Irish Government. had always* come forviard
t° sanction measures 'of severity and coercion, but never to
IlanCtion measures of grace and favour. He (Mr: P.) might
et?) without affecting to be very intimately acquainted with the
, urie of communications which took place between that Noble
rerson and the Government !fere, that as far as he could form
an 0-pi •
mon upon the sobjeet, there was no measure of grace or
our
recommended by the-Noble Lord which the Govern-
Vent did not Conscientiously act upon. He' ould add, that
hri°wing the sentiments of the Noble Person alluded to, upon
to e great question •of the ,Catholic Claims, he would undertake
.taa. for him, .that these sentiments remained unaltered, old
,„1)'t1 his opinion of the. importance, the value, and the nectssity
the
terests of the enipire, of conceding. those claims, was as
~,Lanka,and as firm as it was at any for period. With re-
t to that deeply interesting subject, it was impossible for
try, not to fecl.tbit in the opinion of the House and the coun-
ts ey 110 Present- slate of that question was calculated
st.-'cle- deep regret. The circumstances in which the question
that lu4eeti, were. certainly most alarming. Its situation 'Jai
er n 9f entire .noV.elty, because it' was not only in the situation
llo„" being carried, but it was' calculated to place the two
aees hi an unpleasant situation with respect to each other, on
Ivit'ut°otit of the dissonance of opinion. He had already stated
t had. to•say in answer to the allegation, as to the impo.
hAv" a divided Cabinet upon this question. For the present
asoth°:ld Merely add, that high .as the question was, there was
(iifrer r not less so in the scale of importance, upon -whiCh a
Itefoten,„ce of opinion was entertained—iie meant Parliamentary
Polit,'" He had heard a Right Honourable Gentleman op-
of• a
‘,declare that he would have no objection to form part
Itefortiovernment which was unanimous on the subject of
attechu. Having said thus much, he must say also that Ins
tie,: 'tient to the Catholic cause was unalterable. The mo-
an, Zia this -Session, brought forward without his being.
.°Ptioi,-t„Y,to the originating of it. Had he had it inhis
'eayinoring it forWaid this year, he -had .no hesitation In
•tle,e,.. that he would have advised against it. During the
44,11 .2saorhe ,
had not expressed that. opinion; lest the declare-
kite "`Not have the effect of retarding the progress of the mea-
43elie„- dknd be hoped the House would do him the, • justice to
'eollP°rt or throu" gbou he gave to it his cordial
aside
zeisl,oeurys_
in every stage a the Bill lie threw aside e
DortZ'al Minor consideration, and attended only -to the am.
ce of
-ting
not eatquestion itself. -He _now saw.
the
exa,,80..,0t0 ch,inge-the'erionsqwhich he' hid expressed. as
. tO
ocy, and therefore the justifiableness of the opituooa
th• ix e nacl acied on with respect tea diiided Government
110,"Airr-f.rtgoiluesttiiio.ps,.for
.they saw that the., question sUfferedomnO.,
Au,„' to oalo- 0 thin circumstance. if the Government were c
• it •a, 'those who were averse- to this measure, he was
AVII -•°111(1 not have succeded as it had done in that House.
the tle4'" mid the Right Honourable O, Gentleman, " I express.
,_tate,s_7soi the
bottom of my- heart, my regret and alarm at
4,1
.by ,10rortunate issue of this measure, I: beg to be understood
hearts feeling any degree of despondency as to the
• shtne4t• lul,:ti!ccess of the measure.—(llth !)—Far from it
ol as to ,the accompliahment, and the speedy accom-•
ths`;`l•-.4..„%i it too agree .with the Hon. and Learned
thy" tied".. :that speedy and successful issue could .not .be .
ihestse,ives. I;3' the egregious indiscretion of the Catholics
whiel I.° the toe Catholics be firm and tranquil, and obe-
pt iN ttUtll, 1.1": if they are content to use those. arms only
4ay t„::nlPoAsiirtle-e, and the Constitution place in their hands,
coo, the e that they can fail.—(Cheers.)—lf I were to
pr4!l; reo,a7vernment, or to this House, that this question
l potio"sing 1:, to its present state .much longer, I should be
itve R ‘,"l. absurd deceit.—(Cheers.)—l should tie im
that this tnost .egregiously if 1 were to affect to be.:
question can ever be put an end to,- except )