The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-23 00:00:00

TO THE SECRETARY OF THE
MET ROPOLI TAN REFORM ASSOCIATION.
Sir,—On Wednesday the 18th, in Committee on
Suppl,eome useful points were raised, connected with
the management of foreign dependencies. They may
be reduced to two; the expenses worth incurring, and
the treatment of the natives. On the first, there was
some sparring, in the instance of Corfu. This island,
with some minor ones, was pushed upon the British
Government and people, as knowing them to be no-
thing loth to take anything they could, by the Holy
Alliance in 1816. An Indian prince, when he wants
to ruin an individual subject, is understood to :make
him a present of an elephant The subject dares not
get rid of it, and the elephant eats him out of house
and home. The same kind of an elephant has been
Corfu. There was manifestly an impossibility of
getting rid of it ; and there was no end of the ex-
penses it entailed. One year it was discovered the
sea defences wanted increasing ; and another, that
there would be no balance of strength unless an equal
expenditure were made on the land side. The con-
sequences were presumed awful, if by some concate-
nation of the European powers, we were to be robbed
of our elephant ; and exactly as this danger was ad-
mitted, it became necessary to guard against the
perils of hostile influences exerted upon the native
population. And our mode of conciliating this popu-
lation, was to send them the roughest of military
governors, whom no title could popularly shadow out
but one taken from the rudest of Coast of Guinea
potentates. And so between arms and policy, we had
the enjoyment of our prize.
In another foreign dependency, the case is worse ;
for it was plainly out-spoken in the course of the
debate (or I should not put it here), that from the
Isle of France there will be a bill for fortifications
on the land side, to hinder the French inhabitants
from taking the place without waiting for an attack
by sea. How slowly men live and learn ! What
reason, for instance, can be given, why the inhabitants
of the Isle of France should not by a competent
course of British rule, be made to be as devoted
citizens of the empire as the Jerseymen ? Is there
nothing communicable under the British Constitution
and rule, which can balance the recollections of the
good old warlike times ? History and De Foe have
established, that all the heterogeneous races upon
earth are capable of being wrought up into the
" Trueborn Englishman." Domestic and commercial
interests will always, if cultivated, outweigh the
memories of ancient barbarous days.
On Thursday came on the Member for Surrey's
motion for verifying the existence of "needless places,
extravagant salaries, and unnecessary works and es-
tablishments." Bit by bit, and after many trials, the
Conservatives have reduced their motion into a shape
which Free Trade stomachs, not without some diffie
culty, could swallow. But it was not fair, after these
last had signified their power to accept, that new
speakers should stand up and try to insert as much as
possible of the old emetic matter. If it had been done
a little earlier it would have caused the division to
go the other way ; for there would to a certainty
have been two votes which would have taken another
course. As it was, the motion was carried with the
small majority of 71 over 68.
In the course of the evening wae the somewhat
curious phenomenon, of a division (Incumbered
Estates, Ireland) producing a majority of 84 against
0. To the curious and uninformed, it may be ac-
ceptable to be told, that a motion is expected to be
seconded, among other reasons to make sure o' a
second teller. But after the mover and seconder have
been taken for tellers, it is possible there may be
nobody else, as was the case here.
On Friday the douse was occupied by a debate of
extraordinary irregularity, which under the protesta-
tion of having nothing to do with either Protection
or Free Trade, was in fact a demand for the introduc-
tion of a fixed duty on foreign corn. What was pro-
duced for argument from the Conservative benches,
might be reduced to the assertion that a duty on
foreign corn, within certain limits, would not raise
the price abroad. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
wisely answered, that when he saw a chance of per-
suading the people of England of this, he would pro-
pose it.
What was produced in support of the assertion,
consisted in asseverations that the fact had been so in
certain instances stated, backed by the averment that
this proved the principle. In cases of this kind, there
are always two things doubtful; first the facts, and
then the inference. If a carrier was found stating
that he knew by experience that the fewer horses he
put on, the faster he drew, the doubts of the audience
would be, first, whether there was not some mistake
about the alleged facts, and then whether, supposing
certain increases of velocity to have been found con-
comitant on certain diminutions of the team, there had
not been some mistake in the general conclusion
drawn.
The truth in such a case is, that the alleged expe-
riences in one direction are rebutted by overwhelm-
ing counter-experiences in another. No man doubts
that if there had existed a five or eight shillings duty
upon corn, and it were now taken off, foreigners
would say, " Here are the English, who have taken off
their duty upon corn ; they can consequently afford
to give us more, so let us see how much we can get."
And no man doubts that to a certain extent they
would be successful, but not to the extent of getting
the whole duty added to the price. For in each of
the supposed foreign countries, the price
of corn is regulated by the competition among
sellers; and the sellers can no more agree to demand
the addition of the whole duty to the price, than they
could agree to demand it the day before the duty was
removed in England. It was not far want of good-
will that the sellers did not demand it before, but
because those who could afford corn cheaper, were
sure to let down the others. And so it will be
when the duty is removed. There will in any given
place be some increase in the quantity of corn
bought for England, and some rise of price is
always the case when an increased quantity is
bought. But -this will be all; and the thing
specially impossible will be that the price
should rise to the full extent of the duty removed,
which would have the effect of making the quantity
bought be the same as before, and consequently be
sold at the old price. The notion is like that of
the two Kilkenny cats which ate each other up. That
a portion of one or both might be eaten is easy ;
but that all should be eaten up, is attributing an
effect to a cause which vanishes in the process.
Two remarkable facts, and worth treasuring,
were stated by .a practised Baltic merchant.
One, that the quantity of corn imported since the
alteration in the Corn-laws, had been greater than
before by one third. The other, that when a duty of
465. a load was taken off Baltic timber, the price
rose not by 465. but 20,, and so remained for one or
two years and then descended ; timber being an
article, the supply of which upon the coast, some
time is required to increase. In which the important
point is to see, that the price never increased, even
temporarily, by 463., but by less than half. So that
even if it had never fallen lower, the cry of " Do
not take off your tax on timber, because the foreigners
will get the difference," would have been a fraud.
As there was no question before the House, except
whether the Committee of Supply should be gone
into, there was no division, and consequently no re-
sult except an expenditure of words that went for
nothing ; which probably accorded with the Pro-
tectionist ideas of prudence.
On Saturday the House met, professedly to re-
ceive a Report. But the introduction of the Hun-
garian question by the Member for Middlesex re-
sulted in a debate, which may be considered as one of
the most important of the session, and ended in what
may be called a universal expression of confidence in
the conduct and principles of the Minister for Foreign
Affairs. In my next I will endeavour to give some
details. I am, Si AN OLD your obedient servant,
REFORMER.
London, July 23, 1849.

Total

CONSERVANCY OF THE THAMES.—On Saturday the
Lord Mayor, attended by the Recorder, several of the
Aldermen, the Sheriffs, and city officers, held a Court
of Conservancy at the Guildhall, Westminster. After
the adjournment of the Court, the Lord Mayor and the
Lady Mayoress gave a splendid entertainment to a large
party of friends on board the Corporation barge Maria
Wood, at Twickenham. Amongst the company we ob-
served the Countess Waldegrave and Lady Elizabeth
Waldegrave, Lord and Lady Milford, Lady Langdale
and the Hon. Miss Bickersteth, Lady Parker, Captain
Bruce and Mrs. Bruce, the Hon. Leslie Melville and
Mr. Hume, M.P., and the Misses Hume,
AIM
Cobden,irs.stle lvil
and Mrs. Cobden, Mr. Henry, M.P.,
and Miss Henry, Mr. Masterman, M.P., Mr. Chaplin,
M.P., Mrs. Chaplin, and Miss Chaplin, Mr. Dodd, M.P.,
Mrs. llawes and Mr. Hawes, jun., Mr. Henry C. Hoare,
Mrs. Hoare, and the Misses Hoare, the Misses Burnett,
the Misses Prater, Col. Brandling, Capt. Johnson, Alder-
man Sir Peter Laurie and Miss Laurie, Alderman Fare-
brother and Miss Farebrother, A IdermanWilson and lady,
Alderman Copeland, M.P., Mrs. Capper and Miss Capper,
Alderman Humphery, M.P., and Miss Humphery, Alder-
man Sir G. Carroll and Lady Carroll, Alderman Hooper,
Mrs. Hooper, and Miss Hooper, Alderman Farncomb,
Alderman Hunter and lady, Mrs. and Miss Sidney,
Alderman Moon and lady, Ald,rman Lawrence, Mrs.
Lawrence, and Miss Lawrence, Alderman Carden, Mrs.
Carden, and Mrs. Shaw, Alderman and Sheriff Finnis
and Mrs. Finnis, Mr. Sheriff Goodhart and Mrs. Good-
hart, the City Solicitor and Mrs. Pearson, Mr. Hill, Mr.
and Mrs. Anderton, and Miss Emily Baxter, Mr. and
Mrs. Gabriel, the Controller and Mrs. Saunders, the
Under-Sheriff Tamplin and Mrs. Tamplin, the Rev. S.
Cattley, Chaplain to the Lurd Mayor, and Mrs.
Cattley, &c.
The Ministerial fish dinner, which usually pre-
cedes the prorogation, will take place at the Trafalgar,
jis soi
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Greenwich, on Saturday next, the 28th inst. Her Ma-
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Dublin, Belfast, and Scotland.—Observer.
Dispatches were received on Saturday at the Colo-
nial-office from the Governors of Cape Coast and the
Mauritius.

''24:tltrtti Wbrittott

SUN OFFICE, Seven o'Clock.

INDEPENDENCE

HUNGARY.

MEETING AT THE LONDON
TAVERN.-(THIS DAY,)
A public meeting was held at the London Tavern,
Bishopsgate-street, this day, " for the purpose of express •
ing sympathy with the noble, maligned, and betrayed
people—the Hungarians," whose cause has been so often
advocated in this journal.
Long before the chair was taken the large room in
which the meeting was held, and the gallery at the
foot of it, were occupied by a numerous and respectable

audience.
The chair was taken, at one o'clock, by Mr. Alderman
Salomons, amidst loud cheers.
Amongst the gentlemen on the platform we noticed
Lord Nugent, M.P., Sir De Lacy Evans, M.P., Richard
Cobden, Esq.,M.P., Sir D. Norreys, M.P., R. M. Milnes,
Esq., M.P., R. Taylor, Esq., R. Williams, Esq.,
Murdo Young, Esq., and W. Charles M. Kent, Esq., of
The Sun ; Bernal Osborne, Esq., M.P., Sir Joshua
Walmsley, M.P., F. Mowatt, Esq., M.P., W. Scholefield,
Esq., M.P., J. A. Smith, aq , M.P., &c., Btc.
The CHAIRMAN, in opening the proceedings, said he
appeared before them today under a sense of the deepest
responsibility—a responsibility, however, very much les-
sened since the debate in Parliament of Saturday last.
—(Cheers,) That debate would carry to the country,
and disseminate in every part of the empire, facts which
probably would have been discredited, had they appeared
upon less authority than eminent Members of Parlia-
ment, and our Minister of Foreign Affairs. This meeting
to-day was not ealled for the purpose of upsetting thrones,
of disseminating violent doctrines to' excite people
against their rulers; but, on the contrary, to speak for
an independent nation that had been attempted to be
put down by the misrule and illegality of another
nation connected with her,. and on the part of a foreign
invader.—(Loud cheers.) He would not have taken the
responsibility of appearing as chairman this day were
tfiis question merely a matter between the subjects of
a Government and its legitimate rulers even under op-
pression. He thought it became the freemen in a free
state to sympathise with freemen—(Cheers)—and by a
peaceful demonstration such as that to give a spur to
public opinion—(Cheers)—and he deeply regretted that
a journal which had ever been looked upon as the bude
light of public opinion in this country—(Groans)—had not
on the present occasion taken that lead in regard to this
question which he had fondly anticipated; but he saw
this day, in commenting on this meeting, symptoms of
coming round to this cause—(Cheers)—and he found
in that very journal a condemnation of the opinions that
it had all along held.—(Laughter.) He found in the
Times a letter from a correspondent, writing from Vienna,
in this strain—

" The Austrian empire, as such, is even more rotten
at the core than you have been led to imagine, not-
withstanding that you give an admirable delineation of
its present and prospective state before the occurrence
of the revolution. What is more, such has been the
faithlessness with which the Government have abro-
gated the promises so recently and solemnly made, and
so pedantic and offensive is the tyranny of the bureau-
cracy in general, that, little as you may be
prepared for such an intimation, I must in-
form you that the Moderate and Constitutional
party throughout Austria would view the dissolution
of that empire, and its re-organization on new and
more improved principles, with undisguised pleasure.
The success of the Hungarians is viewed by the vast ma-
jority of the nation as the only possible means of rescuing
them from the thraldom in which they are now held; and
so far from being considered, as a psuedo -Hungarian.
correspondent would have you believe, a republican move-
ment, it is viewed almost universally as the reverse. A
gentleman of the Moderate party who is on excellent
terms with the Court, and holds every eminent position at
Vienna, frankly assured me that all he blamed the llunga-
rians for was the false and vacillating position they assumed
in their own Parliament ah the outset of the struggle."
He thought it right to state this to them in case there
might be any one in the meeting who hesitated or
doubted that he was right in asking the meeting to come
forward to-day, and declare their opinion in favour of
Hungarian independence.--(Cheers.) What was the
value of opinion? He thought the state of Europe was
the best answer to that. It was a duty,
therefore, seeing a nation like the Hungarians
struggling for their independence, and striving
to prevent their liberties being put down by Russian
and Austrian bayonets—(Cheers)—that they should
come there to-day as freemen, and Englishmen, and as
men of high feeling and morality and religion, and pro-
test against that wholesale slaughter that they saw
going un in Europe ; the burnings, and firings, and
floggings,—aye, the flogging of females, too—(Groans,
and loud cries of " Shame, shame,") and that
they should loudly enter their protest, and
put the pressure on our Government to interfere
in such a manner as to put a stop to such outrages on
religion, philanthropy, and humanity. (Cheers.)
There was ano.her view of this question, and a very low
view, but yet one which in this great metropolis ought
not to be struck out. They bad decreed in this country,
by the voice of the Imperial Parliament, the freedom of
commerce and of navigation ; our interest lay on the
freedom of states throughout the world. The freedom
of Europe was to us a matter of great concern.—
(Cheers.) They might have a partition of Hungary as
they had a partition of Poland. He would not detain
them longer, but simply read two letters that he had re-
ceived from noblemen, whose presence had been ex-
pected at the meeting to-day. (The Chairman here read
a let.er from Lord Beaumont, apologising for his inabi-
lity to attend the meeting, but sympathising with its object,
He also read a letter of apology from Lord Sligo.
whose Parliamentary duties prevented his attendance,
and stated that he bad received similar letters from a
number of other Members of Parliament.) He did not
know that he need say anything further, be•
cause there were many gentlemen present more
competent than ho was to give the history
of the Hungarian struggle, and to suggest the best
course for the meeting to pursue. He would, therefore,
give way at once to them, and first of all call upon Mr
G. W. Alexander.—(Cheers )
Mr. ALEXANDER then came forward, and was re-
ceived with loud cheers. He regretted that the task
of moving the first resolution had fallen upon
so humble an individual as himself, but perhaps the cir-
cumstance of his belonging to the Peace Society might
hare been a motive for placing him in his present posi-
tion—(Cheers)—and it was as a friend of peace that he
appeared upon that platform.—(Cheers.) He felt, as the
friend of peace, that they were called upon to give ex-
pression to their feelings in reference to the unjust and
cruel war which was now waging between Austria and
Russia on the one hand, and the Hungarians on the
other.—(Loud cheers.) When public opinion exercised
so important an influence on passing events
it was surely of no mean importance that a great city
like London should express its opinion upon those cir-
cumstances to which the attention of the meeting
would be called to-day. When he looked to the history
of the last fifty years especially to that long war which
waged during a considerable part of that period, and
which lately the Prime Minister of this country de-
clared to be wholly unnecessary—(Loud cheers)—
when he looked at that he was more than ever
convinced that it was the duty of the people of
a free country to express their opinions with
reference to the desolating scourge—war—and especially
when it was waged in a most unjustifiable and iniquitous
manner.—(Hear.) Allusion had been made to the tone
of the remarks contained in the leading journal of this
city. He confessed that those remarks consti-
tuted another reason for his taking a part
in that meeting.—(Hear, hear.) He had read them
with disgust and indignation.—(Cheers.) That paper,
he was terry to say, appeared to him to have become
the bosom and sworn ally of despotism.—(Loud
cheers, and waving of bats and handkerchiefs by nearly
every one in the meeting, followed by loud hisses.)
There was on the part of that journal, and of one or two
others which might be named, very great consideration
for our ancient ally Austria, but he was sorry
to say that he saw in them comparatively little
sympathy for the wrongs which were endured
by the Hungarians—(Cheer)—there was little sympathy
for cities laid waste by Imperial forces, and by hordes of
Cossacks.—(Cheers.) But while he deplored, on the
one hand, the conduct of some of the leading journals,
on the other he had great satisfaction in seeing that the
cause was taken up by other important and influential
metropolitan newspapers.—(Cheers.) There was besides
a j udictous defence of the rights of the Hugarians in the last
number of Blackwood's Magazine, and also an able ar-
ticle, which, though not so extended, is couched in a
similar spirit in the Edinburgh Review.—(Cheers.) The
resolution which he proposed was to the following
effect:—
" That this meeting, without compromising individual
opinions on the subject of war, regard with sincere
admiration, respect, and sympathy, the noble determina-
tion of the Hungarian nation to maintain intact their
just rights and the constitutional independence they
have inherited from their fathers, against the tyrannical
encroachments of Austrian despotism."
—(Cheers.) lie admired the earnestness with which the
Hungarians sought to maintain their just rights, although
he regretted that they had referred them to the arbitra-
tion of the sword.—(Cheers.) He hoped that this
meeting would induce the representatives of London to
do their duty with respect to the Hungarian cause.—
(Loud cheers.) He was glad already to see that
Lord John Russell did not now qualify
the Hungarian insurrection in the same language that

he previously did. He hoped that he would be induced Will anybody in the city of London dare to be a party
to use the influence of his high position to persuade Aus- to a lean to Russia—(Cries of " No, no,")—either di-
tria to make peace with Hungary- upon just condition,. rectly, or openly, or by agency, or copartnership with
Mr. Alexander cencluded by moving the resolution, and any house in Amsterdam or Paris? will any citizen dare
sat down amidst loud cheers. before the citizens of this free country to lend
Mr. COBDEN, M.P., then advanced to the front of the money for cutting the throats of an innocent people?—
platform to second the resolution, and was received with (Loud cheers.) Why we have had such a project talked
loud and prolonged cheering. When silence was re- of. But let such a thing "assume a shape," and I pro-
stored he spoke to the following effect :—Mr. Chairman mise you that we, the peace party, will have such a
and Gentlemen,—l think after this demonstration to-day meeting as has not yet been held in London—(Loud
no paper will have the audacity to say that the inhabi- cheers)—fur the purpose of denouncing the blood-
tants of this great city are indifferent to the state of stained project—for the purpose of pointing the finger of
Hungary, or to the objects of those despots acorn at the houses of those individuals who would lend
who are making daring attempts to fetter her liberties Russia a loan for such a purpose—(Cheers)—for the
and independence.—(Cheers.) Gentlemen, I appear purpose of fixing the indelible stigma of infamy to that
here to day anxious to add my mite of sympathy to person who shall lend money for such an unchristian and
that which you are prepared to express for the interest such a barbarous purpose. That is my moral force.—
of the Hungarians, and I think it right that I should ex- (Hear.) As for Austria, I suppose nobody would ever
explain exactly what my sympathy is, and what my ob. think of lending her money.—(Laughter.) Why she
jects are in coming here.—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, it has been twice a bankrupt within tho last thirty or forty
I have one principle more than another firmly years—and her paper money is down to a discount of
fixed in my mind, and ono which I think it is not only fifteen or sixteen per cent. Surely then no one will
necessary for the interest of this country, but for all ever think of lending her money. But the peace party
countries to recognise, it is this, that a separate and inde- throughout the country will do this—we will raise
pendent country should be allowed to regulate their own a crusade against every Government to carry on an un-
affeit sin the way which to them may seem best, without holy war.—(Hear, hear.) Well, don't let anybody talk
the interference of any other foreign power of Russian resources and of Russian money. Why, it is
whatever.—(Loud cheers.) I make no exception the poorest and most beggarly Government in Europe.
to this rule. I include in it the right of the Romans.— It has not a farthing—in last year there was an
(Cheers.) I include within the benefits of this principle immense deficit, and this year the expenditure
the poorest, the humblest, and most degraded comma- far exceeds the income; therefore, this financial year it
nity; for it is no answer to my principle to tell me that will be far worse. Russia and Austria are wretchedly
certain countries are not in a state to govern themselves poor. Why, there is not such a gigantic imposture in
properly. I say, the fact that a country is not able all Europe.—(Loud cheers.) They talk sometimes as
to govern itself properly, is no reason why you should though England and Englishmen were afraid of Russia.
go and attempt to govern it according to your own Now, I wish to disabuse all minds as to my
notions.--(Cheers.) I come now to the case before us— 'dews upon that subject. I don't come here
and I am anxious that no time should be lost, and to oppose Russian advances into Hungary, because I be-
as I shall not address you lung, I hope I shall lieve that in no possible combination—no accession of
meet with little interruptions.—(Hear, hear.) The territory—no conceivable turn of events—can Russia in
question before us is that of Hungarian independence. the least degree be dangerous to England. If Russia
—(Cheers.) If this had been a question simply be- really take a step to require this country, or
tween Hungary and Austria, I should not have appeared another great maritime power, like the United
here to-day, nor would it have been necessary, gentle- States of America—(Loud cheers)--to attack that
men, for any of us to appear here to-day.—(Cheers.) power only, we should fall like a thunderbolt upon it--
So long as the Hungarians were left to settle their we would crumble that empire into its own dreary fast-
affairs with the Government of Vienna, they were per- nesses in one six months by the aid of
fectly competent to do it, without the interference ot the our shipping.—(Hear, hear.) Russia, a powerful
citizens of London. Why, gentlemen, they have, I be- country 1 I will tell you what it is. It has an army
lieve, driven the Austrian army from their territories, which it keeps upon paper without a commissariat—
and to all intents and purposes, therefore, they stand (Hear)—it has a navy without sailors, and a military
now in the position of an independent nation. chest without a farthing.—(Hear, hear.) How long is
—(Loud cheers.) So far, then, have they, by their it since we heard that the Russians intended to invade
own power, been able to maintain their own indepen- Hungary? We have heard of it four months,
dente against Austria. But, gentlemen, my object in during which time the hordes of armed men that were
coming here to-day is to protest against an armed inter- threatened might, had they been in earnest, have
vention as unjust, as iniquitous, and as infamous as any crushed the country had Russia the power of which it
that was ever perpetrated by any nation.—(Cheers.) I boasts. What progress have the Russians and Austrians
come here to protest against the Russian hordes pouring made? I don't shut my eyes to the peril that awaits
on to the plains of Hungary, and Ido so upon the them when they get there, it a country
principle I laid down at the beginning. I would pro like England, with the: forces at its command, might
test against an English standing army being sent into have gone through the country at this time. I don't
Hungary to fight the battle on the other side, speak of fighting the gallant Hungarians. I speak of
and I now protest against the English'Government send- the difficulties of the country. Everybody knows
ing a standing army of Englishmen to encroach upon the difficulty they would have to encounter—
the Theiss and Danube. I come here to protest against for instance, the difficulty of carrying supplies.
foreigners being there at all.—(Loud cheers.) And What stopped them was, the want of a commissariat and
here, gentlemen, I must say that I have seen the want of money to bring it ; want of honesty on the
with some astonishment, in the speech delivered part of those who have to administer it ; the badness of
by Lord Palmerston—for I was not in my place in the the roads, and the chance of being attacked by a
House of Commons on Saturday, having had a three hostile and indignant people, together with the
weeks' engagement to go up the river on a pleasure party poverty of the Russian Government, deters them.
with your excellent Lord Mayor—there is no mention All this I trace to the undoubted poverty of the Russian
of Russia. I say I have seen with some astonishment Government. The Russian Government were fur some
that Lord Palmerston, in making a long speech upon the four or five years engaged in making a railroad from
affairs ot Hungary, a great portion of which went to de- Moscow to Petersburgh.—(Laughter.) The country
fend himself against what I must say were ridiculously was as level as this table—(Laughter)--and they were
unjust charges made upon him in the House of Lords on obliged to go to a banker to get the money quer-
Friday, he makes no mention of Russia.—(Hear, hear.) terly to carry on the undertaking. Russia, a
In all that speech there is not one word of comment, of strong, a powerful, and a rich country ! Don't
regret, or rebuke—not one word of the most moderate believe any such tales as these for the future. Refer
disapprobation against the conduct of Russia.— (Cheers.) them to me.—(Laughter.) Now we do not come here
Now, gentlemen, that is the whole question— to interfere with foreign countries, or to make a crusade
Russian interference. Well, I have told you against foreign finances, until they have violated the
that I am not for interfering in allowing our principles of neutrality, and outraged the rights of in-
Government to send Englishmen to fight the battle of dependence. Therefore it is that I proclaim these
Hungary against Russia, and I come hero now upon the facts, and will proclaim them, and I dare Russian
same principle to protest against Russia going to the as- agents here to contradict them.—(Great applause )
sistance of Austria.—(Cheers.) Now, we may be asked, Again, I repeat it, stop the supplies, and do it not only
why do we assemble here when we are not prepared to for the interest of Hungary but for the interest of the
follow up this meeting by a course of' action highly cal- Russians themselves. Keep them athome,they have plenty
culated to aid Hungary.—(Hear, hear.) Well, gen- to do in their own country. There was abundant scope for
tlemen, we come here in the
_first place to express them to deepen their own rivers, to drain their own mo-
our opinion that we despise despots, and that resses, and elevate the condition of their own people. This
opinion will have the; effect of proving to is what I want them to do, and not to enter upon a crusade
the world that we are a free community, with an unoffending people. It is, therefore, from mo-
despite the efforts of Russia, while it will teach foreign tives of humanity, and the interest we take in the struggle
despots not to believe the preaching of a certain of a noble people for its liberties, that we appear here
portion of the press, when they tell them that any to-day.—(Loud cheers.)
Minister, or any Government in this c nintry can, Mr. OSBORNE, M.P., said that they had heard the
by, any possibility, lend its aid to the cause of resolution which had been read previous to the one that
despotism.—(Cheers.) That, now, is something, but had been put into his hands ; and in much of the speech
then when we have done that, we can do something which had been so humanely and well delivered by the
more. I belong to the peace party, though I cannot Hon. Member:of the ociety Suf Friends (Mr. Alexander)
claim for myself those views which my friend who pre- he most cordially and fully concurred. There could be
ceded me has explained. I am afraid, however, no doubt that, abstractedly speakiag, peace was the
if we test those views by the New Testa- natural state of mankind—(Hear, hear)—but he would
ment ho is right, but still we have not come here put it to them livinglin a constitutional state of society,
absolutely to commit ourselves to his opinions; what we which they did at the present day, if there might nut
have come here for is to raise the feeling of the peace be worse evils accruing to humanity and civilization
party of this country against this monstrous aggression, than the calamities of war—(Cries of " Hear, hear")
and depend upon it we can do it in a most effective and if the destruction of all liberty, and of all civilization,
manner. (Hear, hear.) We may be asked, was not a thing more to be reprobated than the ap-
how can you bring moral force to bear upon pearance of a nation in arms struggling for its just rights?
these armed despots? Well, I will tell you. We can —(Cheers.) He at once, although voting and supporting
stop the supplies.—(Cheers.) Why, gentlemen, Russia jointly the principle of arbitration, would draw a dis-
can't carry on two campaigns beyond her own frontiers tinetion between war undertaken for conquest, and
without coming to western Europe for a loan. She defensive wars, undertaken for the preservation of the
never has done so; she never has moved an rights and liberties of mankind. If in former times this
army of 30,000 men without hiving either sub- great English people had quietly sat down before the
sidised England or borrowed money at Amster- inroads made on their liberties, where would they have
dam. I tell you I have had many opportunities of as- been at this moment? Should he or his Hon. Friend be
certaining and knowing the state of Ituasie, having paid standing before them this day advocating the sacred
a visit there recently,whea I went a little behind the scenes, rights ot a people fighting for its liberties against despo-
and I tell you Russia cannot carry on two campaigns in tisin?—(Cheers.) Therefore he took the liberty to
Hungarians without coming to borrow money iu say he did in his conscience believe that a defensive
Western Europe or robbing the bank at St. Peters- war was a righteous and holy principle —(C beers—
burgb.—(A cry of " Question.") Why that must and he could fancy no sight more agreeaule to the spirit
be a Russian agent or spy, for that is the question.— of justice, than a great nation struggling for its liber-
(Cheers.) The Russian party hero and ab. oad would tics against an overwhelming and despotic power.—
rather that we sent them swords, cavalries, and bat- (Cheers.) He was not much in the habit of deeending
teries of cannon, than that I should direct your :Wen. her Majesty's Ministers—(A laugh)—but be could
Lion to the facts that lam now going to refer to.— not agree with his Honourable Friend the
(Hear, hear.) I say, sir, Russia cannot carry on two Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire,
campaigns without a loan. In 1829 Russia was engaged iu the reflection he threw on the Minister
in a war with Turkey, and after one campaign she for Foreign Affairs on the late occasion. And he must
was obliged to apply to Hope and Co., at Amsterdam, do the Noble Lord the Member for the city of London
for 40,000 figins.—[Some interruption took place the justice to say that he did not use the term " insur-
here.]—Let him alone (continued Mr. Cobden), I dare rection" in a bail sense.—(Hisses and cheers.) Tne
say we shall be able to convert him to our principles.— Noble Lord was the friend of the Hungarian struggle;
(A laugh.) I have told you that in 1829 Russia was and strange indeed would it have been for one bearing the
obliged, to borrow 40,000 florins from Hope and Co. name of Russell—(lnterruption)—and whose blood had
to carry on a war of two years with Turkey. In 1531, flowed on the scaff .1d in defence or the liberties of his
when the Poles rose in insurrection against Russia, country.—(Loud cheers.) Now, in much that had
she could not carry on that war of nine months without been said by the Member for the West Riding he
contracting a loan, and only this morning I have seen a coincided, but he must take the liberty to say that
paper speaking of that particular loan having been in exposing the weakness of Russia, he had gone
contracted, which states that this loan is called in rather too far ; for fore-warned was fore-armed.
London the Polish Murdering Loan.—(Cheers.) Although Russia might not be feared she was not to be
Well now, gentlemen, I want to know, as a member of despised. Russia purchased five millions of Stock the
the peace party, if we cannot do something to prevent other day in this country.
Russia or Austria from raising a loan in Western Mr. COBDEN rose to explain. The Russian Govern-
Europe again.—(Hear.) Now the issue of the contest ment did not invest a farthing in the Stocks of this coun-
alone depends upon that. I have told you that they try or of France. It was a transaction performed by the
cannot carry on a war without robbing the bank of St. Bank of St. Petersburgh, in coesequence of tile Ex-
Petersburgh, or borrowing money abroad. They have changes having turned greatly in favour of Russia, owing
no one in their country from whom they can borrow— to such a large demand for grain in Western Europe.
none among all their citizens can lend them a Mr. OSBORNE resumed. He accepted the explana-
farthing.—(Cheers ) Russia alone enjoys the credit of tion of his Hon. Friend ; but he (Mr. Osborne) asked
being wealthy, on account of the deceit of her diplo- the meeting if they thought a power which felt no
matists, who are clever, skilful men, and who manage to scruple in overwhelming a country would have any
magnify its wealth, but which no one who has investi- scruple in keeping faith with the public fundholder? It
gated the means of Russia would believe for a moment- was his firm belief that Russia, to prosecute her im-
They tell us that the Emperor has wealthy gold pious and despotic purposes, would make no scruple
mines in Siberia from which we can draw any amount of of robbing that bank.—(Cheers.) Let the meeting re-
gold ; and I believe that is serionsly believed by some member that the whole theory of Russian war was to
of the gentlemen at the Government establishment in make the war support itself, as was said by Napoleon.
Threadncedleestreea Now, I have been there, and I know Therefore, though he acknowledged that there was a
what is the value of these mines. The Russian Govern- nucleus of truth in what had been said by his lion.
ment does not work the mines itself—(Here much noise Friend (Mr. Cobden), he would be sorry if any man in
arose from the silly conduct of some person at the the meeting should feel that the Russian Empire was to
end of the room, who, continuing his noisy conduct,
was ejected.) If (proceeded Mr. Cobden) the friends r
be thoroughly despised.—(Loud cheers.) Their
et rackaennt itlhe
of the cause which we have at heart will only be quiet, w‘ihouaildrmnaont'haavme chairema
it will be impossible for any one to make a disturbance. atitutional struggle n of
unless great
he
eweal
thoughtt wealth
hear.) I was going to say, for I am anxious power.
one
in 1848 stnttiche
despotic
fame,c(o)t
that another
to bring out facts, not alone for the present meet- to the Crown of
the gar";
and • t 1849
ing, for they are facts that will be listened to else- Ferdinand took necessary oath; was in
It was innulisnn2tiutnhgaatirtynweasFeornSinaagnalda succeededp
wliere.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) I wish to show that another Ferdinand broke the oath which he
the monstrous delusion that prevails among the people had sworn to the Hungarian people; and that was
of the western world with regard to the resources of the cause of their meeting there to•day.—(Cheers.) It
Russia. Now, it does not work the gold mines had been said that that country had a despotic and aris-
itself, but receives a per tentage upon the work- tocratic constitution ;it was so once, but the real leaders
ing of them by others; and the working of of the people were the magnates, who were always anx-
those mines are not so profitable as other ions to extend the franchise, and to recognise equality
avocations pursued in Russia, since it yields but of religious rights, and they had on all occasions resisted
700,0001. or 800,0001. a year. Why, Russia gets ten the guerilla which sat at Vienna, and which never at any
times as much as excise on the ardent spirits consumed time gave its consent to the honest reforms made by
by its wretched, degraded, and debased population.— the Diet of Hungary.—(Loud cheers.) And what
(Hear, hear.) , After the gold mine delusion is dis- was it that opened the eyes of the Hungarian
pelled, they tell you that the Emperor of Russia has a Ministers? Why the rising up of those great spirits
great amount of specie in the vaults of the fortress of St. which always made their appearance in all countries when
Petersburgh. Yes, there is a reserve of specie precisely the occasion arose—be alluded particularly to is man upon
in the same way as we have specie in the Bank of Eng whom he hardly knew, in his humble vocabulary, how to
land, but it is a reserve of 14,000,0001. to meet a circa- bestow sufficient praise. He meant the great Louis
lation of paper money of 40,000,0004 or 50,000,000/. Kossuth—(Cheers, and waving of hats and handkerchiefs)
—(Laughter.) And bear in mind that the —a man who embodied in his own person the noble feel-
present paper circulation of Russia has been ings and aspirations of the great Hungarian people.
used to redeem another paper money, which had depre- He had suffered for the cause, and was worthy of their
elated from 3s. 4d. to 104 d., or one-fourth; and, indeed, deepest sympathies. In 1836 he was connected with the
the Government has depreciated their own paper money, press of Hungary, which was not then free, and he ven•
for they have called in their own notes, and paid them tured to publish the debates of the Hungarian Diet.
out at 10fd., under a solemn protest on the part of the Fur this crime he, at the instance of Austria,
Emperor that there should be a reserve of specie was convicted by a summary proc sss, an I was sentenced.
in the fortress of St. Petersburgh, to pay any demand to imprisonment for three years.—(Cries of
that might be made on account of the notes that had Hear, hear.") He need not tell the meeting
s
been issued. And yet their tools, their despicable the public spirit of the Hungarians, whichrein
1337 n
minions spread a report among the credulous, and say, similar to the public spirit in all countries wherein
so
place
that because the Emperor of Russia has forsooth were oppressed, took him from that
Now, what
14,000,000/. or 15,000,000 a in specie, the Russian him in the proud position of beinees:_t
)dtutineg head of the
nation is a wealthy one. Now if it goes to war it comes Hungarian people. ctf?y.
Kossuth in 184 S?
for a loan or robs the bank, and it takes that which ne were the reforms
'similar to the House of Coln-
more belongs to the Emperor of Russia, or, indeed, to The Lower Chamber, of he was a mera-
Russia, than the specie in the Bank of England, and ber, andprivileges, abolished the right
which he has as much right to take as the Chancellor mons, abolished
w a certain number of de -s' 1 t
of the Exchequer would have to come down to the of the peopleth state and to the intignatee, reduce
City and take the specie in the Bank of England. There hour
mtoount of taxation, extended th
quen ce whichoaallli et
? He united
are men who know lam speaking the truth. I know it be- the
equalized all creeds.—(Cheers.) And
cause I was on the spot, and when I travelled there I made
consequence
what was the
it my business to understand the things I am speaking
ausseo._(tchanteerss) A
3.
have spoken races which constitutedthe • inhabitants of Iluu-
of.—(Cheers.) Now, I should never numerousal'd
even the Jews who formed
large p t• f,e which every aor ion o the population had shed their blood in
gory, not d
the
thus of the poverty of Russia if shennhnuadr,
gone and violated that principle
and h
man who admires Hungarian fortitude Only the last month an Au
s•
and pttriot- trian tyrant
who teels interest in the cause of liberty hung a gentleman of that persuasion
menus to uphold.—(Cheers.) at Raub. (Hear, hear.) Now this Louis
ism, is bound by every
means (Cheor).) These
these are my moral me Kossuthwas denounced as an infamous man.—
Well, now, I invite ne peace party, not
which (Laughter.
despotism,
llperhaps, be so if it were
e might,
are the meanst
but throughout Europe, where infamous * despotism, to enfranchise
only in England, to struggle against
gathering in force, to upheld.—(hear, the people, and to concede equal rights to persons of
they are e are the means by which I invite
bear.) These, all creeds; but they took a different view of the matter,
of loaning.—(Loud
them to put down the system c.eera.) aud hoped that, like another Hercules, Louis Kossuth

would strangle on the one side the serpent of' Austria.
and would give on the other a deadly blow to tke Russian
bear.—(Cheers) That highly imaginative man Jells-
chich had endeavoured to put down this holy and sacred
cause by driving back the peasantry, but some of them,
armed with scythes, brickbats, and stones had resisted the
attack, and had spilt even their heart's blood in the
cause.—(Cheers.) Only the other day a minister of
religion was taken by the Russian invaders and
whipped and hung, for advocating the rights of the
Hungarians. The Reverend Mr. Vimer, who was
well known in the city from hiss onnection with
the Religious Tract Society was now expelled from
the country of his birth, and a price was set upon
his head by the AustrianGoverment. The monster,
Haynan, had perpetrated deeds which outstripped all
the horrors which had been committed by the Huns and
all the other barbarians that had spread over ilerope.
Why, this Russian tyrant had laid his hands upon the
female sex—even ladies at his instance had been tried,
condemned, and scourged. While Russia might extend
its despotism to Constantinoble, and tyranize in the
south, they should not be too sure that war would not
bo brought to their own fire sides. (Cheers.) Instead
of reading the bulletins of war at their own fire sides
it might have reached their very shores.—(Hear, hear.)
He hoped that something tangible would result from
this meeting—not a mere protest by words, but that
they would show, by putting their hands into their
pockets, that their hearts were engaged in the cause.
(Cheers.) They had already shown their liberality by
contributing money for the support of people who were
dying of famine. He knew of no distinctions of colour
or of people, and ho thought they might with equally
good reason assist a great people who were struggling
with despotism, for he believed that famine which killed
men with hunger was scarcely more disastrous than that
despotism which ruined the spirit of men, and debased
them to the condition of serfs. He would rather be the
starving wretch in the west of Ireland than the well-fed
slave under the praternal Government of Austria and
Russia.—(Cheers.) He appealed, then, to the citizens
of London, by the bombardment of Vienna and Pesth,
by the apostles of commercial freedom—for the tariff
of Hungary was free, whilst the tariff of Aus-
tria was exclusive —be appealed to them
as the lovers of constitutional government—for Hungary
had a free Parliament, and the Hungarians were all
enfranchised—ho appealed to them as the haters of
war, and of the cruelty which flogged ladies at Presburg.
(Cheers.) He appealed to them fur all of these reasons,
to express their fullest sympathy with the Hungarian
cause, and to render assistance to those unfortunate
refugees who hail been compelled to come to this country
He appealed to his hearers as Christian men to give not
only their sympathy but their assistance, according to
the best of their means, to Hungary, and show their de-
testation of the proceedings of Austria and Russia, and
concluded with moving the following resolution
" That this meeting view with detestation and horror
the barbarous modes in which the war now raging in
Hungary is prosecuted by the Austrian authorities and
Generals, and consider their conduct to merit the indig-
nant reprobation of all parties."
Lord NUGENT, in rising to second the resolution, said
obedient to the call from the chair, with pride and plea-
sure, and he should on
.no occasion, in no place, and at
no time be speaking the truth, if ho denied that it
-was with pride and pleasure that he testified
his hearty concurrence, not only in the resolution,
but in every word of the speech of the
Honourable Friend who had preceded him. He re-
peated, at any time and in any place, he should be proud
to bear testimony to the holiness of this cause; but be-
fore this meeting, in the centre of this city of London
—of that great metropolis of the famous city which was
the cradle of English liberty—had formed the im-
pregnable fortresses of the country in the days of her
warfare and her faithful refuge in distress, it would be
affectation to say it was with reluctance he came forward
as an energetic though humble supporter of the cause
which had brought them there.—(Cheers.) They did
not come there to declaim, for declamation would be an
insult both to the object of the meeting end the spirit
which animated every man in it, but to sympathise
with the cause of freedom, and to denounce a despotic
tyranny that was struggling to destroy the kingdom of
Hungary, and driving brave men in a state of hopeless
destitution to the shores of our coast. They came there
not only to appeal to the pity and charity of the
meeting on behalf of Hungary, but to appeal to
the Government, and if the Government were
slow to respond to the appeal, to appeal to
the people who were the masters and teachers
to tell them that they must no longer discourage or dis-
countenance the cause of liberty in Hungary by refusing
to recognise the nationality.—(Cheers.) Now the cane
of Hungary could be told in a few words. It might be
a large word, but h maintained that this cause was the
most sacred in with liberty had ever raised her
armies against despotism. It had no parallel
in the modern history of the world. This
was a large word, but he would justify it. A more
sacred cause had not occurred since the time when the
ancient Greeks, against odds more formidable than in
the present instance, overthrew their barbarian invaders.
The cause of Hungary, too, was the clearest which
had happened in Europe during the course of modern
history. If the cases of English liberty against the
Stuarts wee clear, he was prepared to show that that of
Hungary was a thousand times more clear. We resisted
James the Second, because resistance became a neces-
sity and a duty, the resistance of Hungary to Francis
Joseph was still more inevitable. 'The claims of James the
11, being King of the country, was to attack the ancient
constitution of England by the assumption of a power to
dispense with the law; but the attack made by the Em-
peror of Austria upon Hungary was that of an Emperor
who professed to be what he was not, namely, King of
Hungary.—(Hear.) That was an unjust attack upon an
independent ,t tie by a foreign invader who was pouring
in upon it hundreds of thousands, not only of his own
people, but of his hireling allies, who had not even de-
clared war, and were therefore not within the pale
of civilized relations so far as Hungary wes con-
cerned. The case of Hungary could be told
in few words. Hungary was a free monarchy,
created by five treaties spreading over a space of 300
years, which had been confirmed by that great inter-
national party called the great pragmatical sanction,
confirmed, too, by England in 1720, and confirmed by the
oath taken by the late King of Hungary. The kingdom
of Hungary was vested in the House of Hapsburg,
by the same force of circumstances that vested Hanover
in the pure Crown of England ; and Hungary was as
independent of the Imperial Crown as the Electorate
of Hanover was independent of this country. The Into
Emperor Ferdinsnd, according to the Constitution,
took the oath as King of Hungary, but before the im-
pression of the Imperial lips was cold upon the bold
evangelist, he abdicated in favour of a succession who
had refused to take the oath.—(Haar.)
It was not till the liberties of Hungary were thus me-
naced, that she took up arms with fortitude, and she
rolled back the forces of Austria.—(Hear.) Immedi-
ately after Hungary established a constitution, abolish-
ing serfage, guarani, eing personal and civil liberty, and
placed at the head of the Executive a man whom,
he should think it presumption Ito eulogise
a'ter the elegant panegyric pronounced upon him
by Mr. Osborne—namely, Louis Kossuth.— (Pro-
longed cheers.) So much then for the care of Austria
What should he say as to the case of Russia?—(Hisses
and groans.) Russia, " whose troops," to use the unfor-
tunate phrase of the Prime Minister, " were lent to sup-
press an insurrection"—(Hisses)—but he trusted and be-
lieved that those unhat.py words were not used in a sense
declaratory of disapp.obation of the Hungarian cause.
Ile wa bound to believe that a man, whose name would
be immortal as long as England lasted.—(Cries of " No,
no.") Yes, the name of Russell—(Cries of "He is an
imposter," and groans and hisses, and partial cheer-
ing—if not him, then the name of Le)) d Willian Russell.
—(A voice: "He has net a drop of blood in his
veins), who was a m;.rtyr in the cause of righteous in-
surrection. He would live in the memories of his coun-
trymen. But Lord Palmerston justified his dissent
from the great Sir William Temple in treating the
cause
of Hungary.—Cheers.) lie
mem-
ber of the Government, whichas the most efficient
he rendered rsepetable—
(Hear)—be wished ho had been permitted to follow the
impulse of his genius.—(Cheers.) Troops bad been
sent, without a declaration of war, to carry " fire and
sword" into an independent state, which he believed he
styled appropriately when he called it a gigantic act of
piracy—(Loud cheers)—since they were sent without
any of those forms which rendered war legal among
states. The Russian troops bad been poured
into Hungary, who wore liable and deserving to be
treated as if they had served under the black flag of
piracy on the seas.—(Loud cheers.) Hungary, when
thus menacad, migbt have sad to Russia —" With
Austria we are ht war, according to all those
modifications by which in civilise I times State
endeavoured to mitigate the dreadful scourge of
war. Though Austria disregards all that forms and
mitigations, and shoots our brethren who fell as prisoners
of war into their hands. Though Austria scourges our
women in the streets—(Shame)—for the crime of not
separating from their husbands and not betraying
country—whee if Austria carry sword and fire into the
bosom of a free state—we have not, and we willposttre
their
Austria
outrage far outrage. We will wage war aegn
°out- bum anity
as men of pow,r —as men of velour—as men
When Russia
—as men of generosity."
C(Jf 300,0001.
pirates, Jinn-
poured into Hungary a hordean
k God she had not dons
h try would be justifiedh h
so)—Hungary would (atve been justified in the face of
it' she had said, " We shalt
the nations, and of posterity;
, she measure to be dealt out to pirates;
deal out to you declared war ; we ask no quarter from
der you
quarterhave we will not give you." No, they had
"' and hand
er anobler course. The Noble Lord
adoptad a tag
then denounced the conduct of
,the Times in opposing
teh cause of Hung ry,and more t specially in publishings
lstter from an antyiyinous person, a self-styled Hungarian,
who impeached the character of Loa's Kossuth, and who
had perverted facts auti truth. Kossuth, who had beers
above the greatest temptations, and who had, in the
mtdst of war cultivated the arts of peace, of education.
and of financial credit; kept up internal peace in the
rage aLd fu, yof for. ign war. But two honoured names
—CouW Tel, ki and M. Pulszky—had defended
that great patriot ; and since, the anony-
mous slanderer had slunk int) the silence a
branded slam lerer, where ho would leave him.
He confessed he had a prejudice against absolute d ,s-
-potism; but that prejudice was very much increased
wh.-n he saw that absolute despotism administered with
cruelty. He conft4ssed he had a prejudice against per.
jury, against shooting and hanging prisoners of war, amt
against the flogging of women.—(Cheers') He dot
confess—nay, he boasted—that he entertained the
,
strongest prejudice against Austria which was now
under the government of a man, of wnom, to use the
prase of Abraham Cowls ,andv which was applied to a
yery different person—he said " There were two sorts
of tyranny, a tyranny
ex nada.
.titula, and a tyranny
cx oriels exercitio,
a tyranny which arose out of hay-
ing no title to the throne, and a tyranny which
arose out of wielding the sceptre of Babylon. To your
Highness most justly belongs that title of tyrant in both