The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-01 00:00:00

Ireland had a native Parliament, these deaths could not
have taken place, for the Irish would .have shut
the ports, stopped the :distilleries, and :exerted
themselves to meet the distress. When Ireland had a
Parliament, they voted 250,0001. in the year 1795, for the
defence of England, and forty thousand men for the pub-
lic defence against a threatened French invasion. It vras
said in that House, that if England lost the first place
among the nations of Europe, she would be nothing.
He believed it, and he should always wish she were
first, but it was not keeping her position to be
peddling about a few pounds and a few stones of meal,
while the people of Ireland were starving. He wished
the Liberal Members of Ireland to consider what they
had done; they destroyed the agricultural interests of
the country—(" Hear" from the Protectionists)—they
destroyed its commerce, mainly by supporting certain
measures, and let them not now put the finishing stroke
to the miseries of the country. It was said there were
bed landlords in Ireland, and he believed it, but they were
not all bad, and in many cases, to his own knowledge, more
particularly in Connaught, Cavan, and parts of Connaught,
no rent wac paid at all, for several years. Let the House
look at his own case. He had property near that farmed
by the Duke of Buckingham, in the county of Longford,
and Colonel White had property also, and so had Lord
Longford; but what was ,the fact? The Buckingham
property was covered with paupers, whom they hull to
support in addition to their own; and although it was
recently sold for 1.4,5001, not a single shilling could the
purchaser get from the tenantry on that property. They
first, as he had said, destroyed their agriculture and
commerce—they took away the constitution in conse-
quence of a mock insurrection, and then talked of
sending away the people by emigration. For his own
part, he was incen'tiary enough, and would continue so,
to tell the people of Ireland not to pay any rents to the
tbsentees —for they were the cause cf the misfortunes
which befell the country. For his ote,n part, he should
vote for the Bill, in the hope th At it would afford some
relief to the famishing people in the present dreadful
crisis. _ _ _

Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL then proceeded to address
the House, in the midst of loud and vociferous cries of
" Divide, divide." He denied, in the first instance,
that the people of Ulster were superior either in know-
ledge cr loyalty to those of the south or west of Ireland,
as had b. en alleged by Hon. Members on the other side
of the House. Ile had also heard it complainel of that
the loan of ten millions to the people for some years
hack created a bad effect. He denied it, for it relieved
the people from death by starvation in many instances,
and where so Many lives were preserved it coeld not
have created a bad effect. He voted, as he had aleeely
said, fcr the Bill now before the House as a choice of
two evils, and he should say it was not fair for that
!douse to place Irish Members in so painful a position.
—(Hear.) They had heard that evening of the horrible
account given by the gentleman who, in driving through
the western parts of Ireland, in the county of Mayo,
was obliged to desist from his journey in consequence of
the number of bodies which lay dead and festering along
he road. But they had not heard half the story of the
horrors which now existed in that unfortunate country.
He had received letters from various other parts of Ire-
land—Kilkenny, for instance, a rich and fertile district—
from places withi❑ a short distance of the metropolis,
and in the gangway, if he might use such an expr.es-
,ion, of trade and commerce, and yet the destitution
which prevailed was really frightful, The Hon. Member
then proceeded to read an extract from the Cork Exa-
miner, in which the writer of the letter gave a melan-
choly description of the misery produced in various places
in Kerry, in consequence of recent evictions which
reek place in that county; and then proceeded to say,
they might depend on it that the emigration now going
forward of the farmers and yeomen of the country,
which was most disastrous, would be encouraged instead
of checked, if this system of eviction were permitted to
eo on. They were beautifying the public buildings of
that metropolis, widening streets, and rendering them
mere megnlicent than any others in Europe; but they
were doing that—they were expending money at a time
when the people of Ireland were starving. It had been
ilasphemously asserted that the misery of Ireland was
Heaven's will; that her people ought to be left to their
own wretchedness. Yes, in rich powerful England, and
in the nineteenth century, such language was used, and
the author not reproved, towards millions of God's
creatures, and for whose salvation he laid down his life.

Colonel DUNNE said that unless they were taxed
justly, the Irish Members would not support this mea-
sure. Ho was prepared to show that in Ireland they
could not get this money, and therefore this security
was delusive. The whole tax must fall on one-half of
Ireland. Ho thought the poor-law objectionable. There
was no help for Ireland at this na,ment, unless they
fundamentally altered this poor law. He repudiated the
idea that the Irish Members wore responsible for any-
thing that was going on in Ireland. The Government
ought to have spoken out. Their present proceedings
would no result in any permanent benefit to the coun-
try. There were 172 petitions from Ireland against this
measure, and only one for it. The measure was opposed
to the general feeling in that country.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—

i'or the amendMent
Against it
Majority
The Bill was then read a third time.
G)lonel R W DON suggested some verbal alterations
in the title of the Bill. lie thou4ht the collection of
this rate would most materially affect the beneficial ope-
ration of the poor-law in Ireland. After the word c•-.T-
Lain he moved to insert the words " other more" dis-
tressed unions. He protested against this invasion of the
Act of Union.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought the words objected
to unobjectionahl, therefore he should not agree to the
amendment.

It was then wgatived vvithout:a division.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.—NAyY ESTIMATES.
The House then went into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. BERNAL in the chair.
The following votes were passed nem. con.:-135,2141.
to defray the salaries of the officers and the general ex-
penses of the Admiralty-office; 9,772/. for the General
Register and Record-office of Seamen; and 52,8471. for
ihe scientific branch of the navy.
On the vote of 137,287/. for her Majesty's establish-
ments at home.
Mr. CORItY took occasion to remind the House that
the late Secretary of the Admiralty (Nlr. Ward), in
:Boring the es'imates, and in explaining the alterations
which the Admiralty proposed in the dockyards,
!nada some observations with respect to the manner
in which the busitless was carried on by the dock-
yard officers. Since that time certain Hon. Members,

following up the remarks of the Hon. Gentleman had made
use of s' rong language in reference to those officers
—some having even gone the length of charging them
Nith gross and prof] ga'o mismanagement. Now, har-
ing hed five years' Experience of the manner in which
business was carried on in the dockyards, and enter-
taining the highest respect for the officers of those
establishments, he felt bound to say that the observa-
tions which had been made upon them were by no
means deserved.—(Hear, hear.) Ho would do the Hon.
Gentleman the late Secretary of the Admiralty the justice
to say that he did not think he intended to convey the
impression to the House which some Hon. Gentlemen
had attached to his remarks.—(Hear, hear.) It had
been said, too, that the Board of Admiralty had for 200
years been conniving at gross peculation and extrava-
gance in the dockyards. Without denying that the
system was open to improvement, he felt bound to
maintain that the charges which had been urged against
it were greatly exaggerated. It was said, fur
instance, that there had been no audit of wages;
but that did not arise from any loose management on
Lhe part of the authorities, but simply because
they had always found their preliminary in-
quiries sufficient to secure accuracy. Then again it was
said that there had been no general survey of stores;
upon
expen-
diture, of
but that was because of the enormous expense which
syvv:.Tacisht h a
r es su pr consideredev
respect
yt
owouldtoe
be
unnecessary,s haveten
ty
occasioned,
in and because it
check consequence
other arrangements calculated to secure the same end.
it should not be forgotten that there was a
monthly return of all the stores, which was duly verified
by the superintendents.
Sir F. T. BARING regretted that his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Ward) was not present, in order to explain per-
,,onally that he had no intention whatever of ascribing
blame to the officers of the yards. So far was his Hon.
Friend from stating that the system hitherto pursued at
the yards had been a system of peculation, that he, on
the contrary, was much struck and greatly satisfied, on
strict inquiry, by the honesty with which the public busi-
ness had been carried on in the yards.—(Hear, hear.)
No doubt there was room for improvement there, as in
all large establishments of a similar nature.
The vote was then agreed to, as was also a vote of
24,8731, for the salaries of officers, &c., and contingent
expenses of the naval establishments abroad.
On the vote of 414,4161, for the wages of artificers,
labourers, and others employed in the naval establish•
ments at home,
Mr. COBDEN hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would
not object to postpone it, as the Hon. Member for Mon-
trose (Mr. Hume), who had two amendments on the
vesper with respect to the reduction of the dockyard bate
talions and of the shipwrights, was unable to attend in
his place owing to a sudden attack of cold which ren-
dered him quite inaudible.
Sir F. T. BARING said, ho would not object to post-
pone bringing up the report on that particular vote till
the llon. Member (Mr. Hume) could attend in his place,
The rote was then agreed to.
40,7441. for wages to artificers, labourers, and others
employed in the establishments was also agreed to.
On the vote of 1,168,8691. for naval stores, building,
repair, and outfit of the fleet, and for steam machinery,
Mr. COBDEN arid that all who had examined into
the details of the Committee last year would be satisfied
there wore no grounds whatever for the charge of pecu-
lation in any branch of the service; but, at the same
time, there was a very general opinion that the manage-
ment of our establishments was very defective, and ac-
cordingly a Committee had been appointed to revise the
system and put the public on the footing of private
establishments. He should like the Right Hon. Baronet
to state the result of the inquiries of that Committee, as
to which the late secretary (Ur. Ward) had been very
anxious. to stet© that the
Sir F. T. BARING was understood
report presented by the Committee was now in
course of
being carried into effect.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 391.9341. to defray the charges of im-
provements, repairs, &C.
th, but in so low a tone as
Mr. FAGAN, at some leng
to be almost inaudible, rose to bring under consideration
the expense; of the erection of a stertm-flciory at Haul-
-110 compit,ined the very m sali curii•n:
ir:wiiu
n monv -exrn:led iu IrAthd, and Gail' 3 on 0 e
meet to redeem their premise of making a landing-place
at Cork.
Sir F. T. BARING assured the lion. Gentleman
that Oa admiralty not only gamins(' but were most