The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-02 00:00:00

however persevered, and went to Plymouth to examine
into the condition of the property of the deceased; and
what was the answer of those directors to him? I
In allowing him to see the books after considerable
trouble, said that they would no: permit him to make
any extracts from them. However the result of his in-
spection of their books was, that instead of the 32,000/. ,
clear balance, they had only 2,500/. in the hands of their
banker, and the remainder was represented by bills not
worth a single farthing. The question then was, how
did these over-due bills come to be placed to the credit
of the company ? The solution of this question tended
to throw new light on the mode in which these share-
mongers kept up the apparent value of the stock for
their own private purposes. Of that deficit of 29,0001. •
the sum of 11,0001. was owing by the solicitor—he was
sorry to say the head of what he had always considered
a respectable house in the city of London ; and he had
paid these had bills, which were over due and never
Reid, as his calls when they were demanded of him.
This led to further inquiry, and his friend proceeded
to ask about the payment of the other calls, and it
turned out that the secretary of the Great Western
Railway, Mr. Saunders, who enjoyed the sad sum of 3,0001.
a-year for his services as secretary to the Great Western
Company, had been allowed to run in arrear of his calla
of 13,0004 ; he had only paid 2,0001. out of the 13,000/.
calls which had been made upon him.—(Hear, hear.)
Good God! could anything be more disgraceful than the
conduct of these directors, who were appointed to act as
trustees for the body of shareholders ? Could anything
be more disgraceful than such collusion, if not fraud, as
that of allowing their own well-paid secretary to run in
arrear for his calls, when they pounced upon the poor
widow, or the guardian of the orphan, and ruined them
by enforcing the peymillat of their calls?—(Hear.) The
other gentleman, the attorney to whom he referred, and
whom he would net name, owed to the company
190,000/., he having received from the company, at va-
rious times, different large amounts, to pay for the land
required for the purposes of the railway. At different
times he was allowed sums of 20,0001., 40,000/., 60,0004,
end so on, from the company, without having been called
upon to show any vouchers for the money he had paid. It
might be asked why the company did not sue the party
for the amount? The answer was clear. The attorney was
not worth a halfpenny, and it would only have been an
additional expense to the company if they had done so.
There must be an end to any further concealment of the
mischievous manoeuvres of such men, for his motion
would put an end to such practices as he had detailed,
now and for ever, for the concerns of railroads would be
made plain to Parliament and to the country. He had
one more statement to make which was not immaterial,
and he meant in the case of two lines in the hands of
the same directors, the mode they had of adding to one
concern when the capital of it was insufficient, which
system he considered to be fraught with fraud and deceit.
These directors, after they had received the bills of the
engineers, parliamentary agents, and others, make appli-
cation to Parliament to obtain power to enable other
persons to take shares, for the purpose of getting more
money; and for the purpose of inducing persons to take
shares they create new ones, which they call preference
shares, a very great disadvantage to the old shareholders,
for the preference shareholders were guaranteed 5 per
cent., and in many cases ware paid out of the capital.—
(Hear.) Now these two agents, to whom he had before
alluded, had preference shares; as long as they consi-
dered it to be a source of advantage to them—so long
and no longer did Holdfast keep those shares, but the
moment that they fell to a discount, when they were
called on to pay for their preference shares, they
turn round and say, we have been all of us fraudulent,
and are not, therefore bound to pay. Such had been the
act of the solicitor to whom he alluded. Ha should like
one thing for mere curiosity—he ,hould like that an-
other House of Parliament, not the one in this, but in
another country, would take his hint, would institute an
inquiry into the expenses of railroads in their country.
He wished that the Canadian House of Commons, which
he highly respected, would :act thus. In 1837 he ob-
tained the concurs-nco of their L.rdships to a standing
order, which put raltrosda on a far different footing from
what they had bean previously; he asked if teat
measure had been beneficial to England, why not in
Canada? Why, he asked, should not the House of
Commons of Canada, the faithful representatives of
the good people of Canada, institute a similar inquiry.
—(Elear, hear.) He had some time ago suggested
to some of the representatives in the Canadian
Commons, that if that course were adopted by
them, that it would work well. But when
they returned to their respective seats in that House
they changed the tone of their opinions, and said it
would not by any means work well. They admitted
that it was good for England, but thought that it would
not do for Canada. It was known that their elections
were often very expensive, and that their constituents
frequently required employment through their influence,
and they considered that the best and cheapest mode to
procure such employment was to vote for such and such
railroad Bills, and thus save their own coffers, and up-
hold their influence. He had used every exertion fur
suppressing the mischievous system of those gambling
speculations, and at length, after seven years, had
succeeded in effecting hie desire in some degree.
He knew that the House of Commons in this
country had done its duty, but what he wished for
was, that the Canadian Parliament should make
inquiry as to what took place before those Bills
were passed by them, and that it also became the
Parliament of this country to know what then occurred.
He had seen some of their Bills, and fully believed
that the money was not accounted for. He should at
the same time state that he believed that the solicitors
engaged were honest, that is, that they did not pocket
the money, but he felt assured that they placed right
shares in the right places. When some six Members of
that House had any interest in a Bill, they induced others
to vote with them, and it was to prevent that system any
loner that he pressed his recommendation. He said
that if those proceedings were sifted, it would throw
great light on the mode adopted in the Canadian Com-
,XOOLIS of carrying Bills through their Parliament, and
:Alto their mode of voting. A friend of his (Lord
,araughans), a. second, and a third, .had stated to him

that they had been offered 1,0001. if they would lend their
names to be railway directors, In tact, the Canadian
Rouse of Commons has a strong objection to such an in-
quiry, or to allow any investigation into matters of
bribery or corruption. It should be considered that if
there was anything disgraceful discovered, that it would
nut attach itself to the House of Commons, but to the-
guilty individuals. The whole of the matter required
the interposition of Parliament; for a remedy must be ap-
plied to check those unworthy members of society from
falsely and fraudulently mautifecturing railway shares,
and from their shameful system of gambling. He thought
that giving absolute publicity to such proceedings would.
tend very such to prevent them, and saw no other',
course that Parliament shiuld take than that suggested;
by him. His Noble Friend (Lord Montesgle) had in-'
troduced a measure, very useful both to England and'
Ireland, for obtaining certain audit of railroads. He
hoped that the Noble Lord (Lord Monteagle) would not
be discouraged in coming forward again with his motion.
lie should therefore lay his motion oa the table, andl
would wish, as he understood that it would requires
many months to procure the necessary information, that!
they would b, gin the good work as soon as possible, for!
he was anxious that there should be no delay whatever,l
for it was roost essential that that giant evil of gamblitg!
should be suppressed as soon as possible. What he 17.e1,
stated were facts, and if any Noble Lord doubted those:
facts, he felt prepared to furnish him with all the papers!
to prove the accuracy of his statements.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he hoped!
that their Lordships would agree with the proposition of!
the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham). He(
should at the same time say that it would be difficult, if
not impossible, to procure all the necessary information!
at once, but at the same time fully concurred with him,;
that as little delay as possible should be offered to so
useful a proposition. The time has now come when re-
sistance must be offered to such proceedings as the
Noble Lord (Lord Brougham) strongly and truthfully
alluded to. Ile also hoped that the Noble Lord (Lord
Idonteagle) would again introduce his Bill, and assured
him that Government would give it their best support;
and that if he gave it up, the Government would feel it

their duty to introduce a similar Bill, yet he hoped that
the Noble L rd (Lord dlont,agle) would introduce it,
as he believed that it could not be brought on with more
success by any Noble Lord than by his Noble Friend
(Lord Monteagle).
Lord NIONTEAGLE said he could not rJrain from
expressing the satisfaction he felt at finding this subject
taken up so earnestly by the Noble Lord. When their
Lordships came L., constier the probable effect it would
rave upon commerce. he thought it would be deemed ha-
possible to overrate its importance. It was beyond tt:e
r. ach of legislation to prevent the imprudence of man-
kiwi, but he believi.d that if the recommendation of a
Noble Friend of his, now absent, had been remembered
there and elsewhere, the consequences of imprudent
speculation which they had recently witnessed, might,
to a great extent, have been avoided. Lord Dalhousie
recommended that a selection should be made of those
lines which the public had most confidence in, n d
which were most likely to prove sound speculations.
That rtu.namendation had been avoided, and unfortu-

_a—
Aately most of the evils had occurred which his Noble
Freud had foreseen. The powers which Parliament
had given from time to time, for the indefinite perpe-
tuation or a fraud,Pay raising dividends to a suppositious
Value, upon the faith of which purchasers bought, ought
to render Parliament responsible for the results; at any
rate, whilst that ground of complaint existed, there was
DO occasion to complain of theniactsneof persons out of
doors. In this way many the companies had
contrived to clear 100, 150, and 2OO per cent.
Upon the purchase of their shares,e
which, had it not
been for the private information th ywwero able to obtain
poise"i,al ot, would have found its way, it ought to
have found its way, into the hands ofat
was pd
arties who
become
of
were dealing with them. The gut+
the ereatest attention, because it had now
Moll practice to allow powers to the trusteemanaennadce:rint:
,rtats•4e seteement, for the investmenntoniofpanten, in
rtaizwa. shares. he audit of railway
court', as at preseet managed, we. a perfect farce.s"-
1,,,rd OUGUANI observed that his chief o.).
b‘.4 1,„.n to ponit out huw great factlties for fraud jar:'rtl
Abuses had be,- n afforded. At the same he would
rtaiiiirk that the comoletion of 4,000 miles of railway,
times the distance between London and Edin-
burgh, was borne evidence that many of the schemes were
and intended to be pursued to completion.
Loud GRANVILLE acknowledged that the present
133 swim of auditing railway accounts was extremely im-
perfect. The Government would give its assistance in

remedying it.
:Lae motion was then agreed to.
Tt:e Rate-in Aid (Poor-law, Ice Lina) Bill was read a
fir.: tune.

Th,dr Lordb'nips then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 1.
The SPEAKita took the Chair at Four o'clock.

THIRD READING.
Tho Newcastle and Carlisle Railway (Alterations of
and Bra Lch from Alston Branch) Bill.