The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-31 00:00:00

PIIE SUisT, LONDON, ITUSDAY, JUIN JI, 1838:

WORKING MEN'S ASSOCIATIONS

IN SCOTLAND.

(FROM A CORIVE%PONDENT.)

Within a very short period several Working Men's Atttclations have
been formed in Scotland, on similar principles to the London association.
A very promising one has recently been formed at Stirling, and the
members have been very industrious in forming others in the neigh-
bouring villages. It must be gratifying to all those Who are anxious
for the social and political amelioration of the great body of the people to
find them breathing sentiments like the following :—" In forming our
association, we seek nit a mere exhibition of numbers, unless indeed
they possess the attributes and character of Incn ; and little worthy of
the name are those who have no aspirations beyond mere sensual enjoy-
ments—who, forgetful of their duties as fathers, husbands, and brothers,
muddle their understandings and drown their intellect amid the drunken
revelry of the pot-house—whose prcfligacymakes them the ready tools
and victims of corruption, or slaves of unprincipled governors, who con-
nive at their folly, and smile while they forgo for themselves the fetters
of their liberty by their love of drink. Let us therefore seek to make
the principles of democracy as respectable in practice as they arc just in
theory, by excluding the drunken and immoral from our ranks, and by
uniting in close compact with the honest, sober, moral, and thinking
portion of our brethren." While those Associations act in accordance
with the above excellent principles, they cannot fail of success. With
the law, however, as it now stands, they should be cautioned not to form
branches—each Association should be distinct in itself. They may have
similar rules and objects, but each body should have its own officers, and
not be considered a part of any other Association.
Another Association, upon the same principle as the above, has lately
been formed at Anna, and already counts a considerable number of
members. At one of their recent meetings they adopted the " People's
Charter,' a copy of which had been forwarded to them from London.

THE PEOPLE'S CHARTER.
A public meeting of the Members of the Radical Registration and
Patriotic Association of Brighton, was held in the Brewer's Arms,
Church-street, on the 20th instant, when resolutions were unanimously
adopted, assenting to the principles embodied in the PEOPLES' CH A RTER,
drawn up by the London Working Men's Association. It was agreed,
that a few &aerations should be suggested in detail, and that it letter to
this effect be forwarded to Mr. Lovett, the Secretary of the London
body. A resolution was also passed expressive of the thanks of the
meeting, to the members of the London Association, for their continuous
and patriotic exertions in favour of the hapO.ness and librty of the
universal people.

At this season of the when the mad-dog-cry is
rife, it were well if those persons who keep dogs in confinement would
take care to let the poor I.risoners have at all times plenty of fresh water
to drink.

WHITE FAIT IN SCOTLAND.—TWO years ago,
an attempt w•...s made, we believe by some fisherwomen, to pass off the
gars ie her ings caught in the neighbouring waters as white bait! The
impostc.re had, we suppose, no great success; but it is rather mortifying
that those whathought it worth while to practise thisileception, should
neglect the legitimate means within their reach of gratifying the taste
for that much famed dainty. Dr. Parnell, an ingenious and enteprising
young naturalist, who discovered white bait in the Frith of Forth two
years ago, went out yesterday and caught a large quantity, a heaped
dishfril of which he sent to a friend of ours.—Scotsman.
TIIE lIER RING FISHING.—The fishing this week
bas been more successful than we remember at so early a
period on any
former year. The take has not been great, but all the boats have got
some—from one to ten crans each. These two last mornings the take
has been from 400 herrings to four crans each. One of the mornings
this week a curer had so many as 30 crans delivered to him. The pre.
sent fishing is much earlier than usual on this coast ; the nights being
light and the weather calm, operate against the fishing ; there is, how.
ever, expectations of grod fishing in due time. The quality of the fisk
is excellent, and thef have been sold in our market at three a penny.
The prosecution 'af the herring fishing on our coast has become exceed.
ingly dasigerAs, in consequence of the passing and repassing of the
steam ves.els, many of whom exhibit great indifference for the safety of
those engaged in the smaller craft. Narrow escapes are daily reported.
—ller•vick Advertiser.

TWEED FISHERIES.--The improvement in these
fisheries, which we noticed a few weeks ago, still continues. The
fisheries below the bridge report this week to be the best of this or the
preceding season ; one of these stations had yesterday morning caught
since Monday 1,300 fish. The number of salmon are proportionately
small, but the grilse are very numerous and good.—Berwick Advertiser.
THE CAMLET WEAVERS.—We rejoice to hear
that the suggestion which, in the sincere spirit of good will to both
weavers and masters, we took the liberty of making last week has been
responded to; and that the door has been open to friendly discussion,
which we trust by a little mutual concession will lead to peace, and
renewed activity to the manufacturing interests of the city.—Norfolk
OrOtai'cle.

HARVEST.—In the neighbourhood of Ret-
ford the crops are fast progressing towards maturity, and should the
weather prove propitious, the corn, particularly barley on light soils,
will be ready for reaping in a fortnight from Monday next. The wheats
have improved very much during the last month, though it is feared the
mildew will be prevalent on strong wet lands. In other parts it has
seldom promised a greater yield, and will be quite an average crop.
Bailey is abundant every where, and exceedingly well topped. Oats are
good, and so are pease, and we imagine few people recollect the bean
crop promising better than they do at the present period.—Doncaster
Gazette.

OXFORD DEGREES.—The following account of
the preliminaries observed on proceeding to a B. A. degree, we receive
from a person who has just taken that degree :—" I breakfasted, in
conformity with University rule, as did other Under Graduates in the
came circumstances as myself, with the Dean of the College. I had
previously heard that the thirty-nine articles of our church were to be
road, but I confess was little prepared for the irreverent manner in which
that reading was conducted. Three or four of the articles were gabbled
over soon after I entered the breakfast room, whilst the Under Gra-
duates were sitting round the fire, laughing and talking together. The
reading of thirty-nine articles, however, was an operation too long and
irksome to be performed without some interval of respite. The Prayer-
book is laid aside—we take our places at the breakfast table—but, ere
long, the mockery is again resumed—sometimes by the Dean, some
times by an Under Graduate, as a pause faom gormandising may allow:
whilst, among the rest, the eating and laughing, and talking continue
without the slightest check or reprehension. Besides the thirty nine
articles, the oath of supremacy, and the oath of approval of the Book of
Common prayer were read, and the sad mockery was thus brought to a
close ; and the beef-steaks, chickent, and sausages, being pretty well de-
molished, we rose from the breakfast table to prepare for the remainder
of the ceremony."—New York Courant,
On Saturday se'nnight two dogs entered the farm
yard of Mr, Bourne, at Westbury, and tore and worried about forty
sheep, several of which have since died.—Wilts Independent.
Irish new potatoes are selling in the Bazaar to-day
at Is. 4d. per imperial stone. This day week they were 2s. 4d. per
stone. The Irish steam boat Companies are rendering immense service
to the city, and, we trust, benefiting themselves, by such rapid convey-
ances of all kinds of provisions, the abundant produce of the Emerald
Isle.— Glasgow' Chronicle.

We have lately received some communications re-
specting an impression which has gone abroad, that the labourers on the
Great Western Railway pursue their occupations on Sundays as on
other days. This impression must owe its origin to the fact that a few
men are employed on the tunnellings, &c., in which no cessation can,
without danger, be allowed to take place, and the continual prosecution
of which is a work of absolute necessity. We have made a careful in-
quiry into the subject, and we are happy in being able to state, on the
best possible authority, that no Sunday work whatever is performed on
the Railway, excepting that which is strictly indispensable. We may
add that it is contrary to the interest of the contractors that work
should be done on Sunday, as the men who are employed on that day
always expect and obtain a higher rate of wages.—Bath Chronicle.
On Friday morning, between five and six o'clock, a
respectable tradesman named Merutt, living in William.street, Corn.
mercial.road, Lambeth, was crossing Westminster bridge, when he ob-
served a female very respectably dressed on the top of the balustrading
of the bridge, evidently with the intention of throwing herself off. Ile
immediately rushed forward, and caching hold of her dress, drew her
into his arms. She cried bitterly, and confessed that she intended to
make away with herself. She stated her name to be Mary Lark, a
native of Norwich. She had been seduced from home. After being
ti(tained .ntil she became composed, she was allowed to depart.
The town of Dinant, in Belgium, has been visited
by a horrible accident. A large natural cavern under the citadel, made
use of, time out of mind, as the receptacle of its sewers and filth, burst
forth on the town below, and inundated it with the most horrible of all
floods. Ihe torrent carried away a soldier from the citadel.
THE IRISH BlLLs.—The Pilot claims the merit
of having consistently opposed the three Bills, observing :—The
Post vaunted last night of leading the resistance to these Bills. This
was indirectly, but intentionally, robbing us of our merits, and there-
fore unjust. We shall never submit to direct or indirect robberies of
cur labours or independence. We have taken the lead in the resistance
and in the policy to be adopted. While the Post palpably would now
be writing as it did the 21st July—if the Government had now the
same intentions as it had then—we led the Government and its press;
and if we did not cause the present policy, we independently advised it.
AGITATION IN IRELAND.—As we have said be-
fore, we do not wish, we do not desire, we would, on the contrary, de_
precate agitation. We have suffered ourselves so much, the country
has suffered by the constant state of excitement into which we have been
involved, that we should be most anxious for pracc in this our day.
Lenit albescens ant mos capillus,
Litium et rive cupidos protervm.
But, really, we cannot help it—we are again enforced to take up a posi-
tion, and to assume a tone which we had abandoned to younger and
more sanguine politicians. At all events a stand must now be made.
flow the present crisis may terminate, if it terminate at all, we cannot
Our try should be, with a very different signification to that
htithe,to ar.oixed to the phrase— NO SURRENDER.—DubIin Evening
Putt

TILE NEV LOAN BILL (IRELAND).—We think
the Irish Executive should not allow itself to be driven into a false po-
sition as respects thi ~,,,,,,,i, bc_,,
Give
the
important question. Our advice to them
not il_titi.rltelr.e\47lth Loan Fund Board protection and aid, but do
theecurrent of private capital."—Pilot.
KET THEATRE.
drama was produced en Saturday — A little domestic
night, under the title of The Artist's
U It is a translation of a s
ik,nown French drama. In the first
act we find Clermont (ItangerealLy•arettnaccht artist, who has married a lady
of quality, to whom he 13 devoiedl
injund his sight. working so hard at his pie_
tures that he hat materially
pointing, but recollecting that his wife, dsyhecl.lie,airskaAdti,i7Ndiitsos ileiaa;le,(;)tr.
was borne to luxury, he cannot endure that'
lions, and accordingly he not only continues his Sahsosiiudolud is it7t,ffebruatneyvePnri%i•tai:
w
velves I.inaself deeply In debt. Lady Charlotte,
as generous as
bims, If, is kept unacquainted with the secret of these
debts.
Welford (Hemming), Clermont's patron, has made dishonourable off Lord
to Lady Charlotte. who reveals all to her husband, and the latter reads
the nobleman such a lecture, ingeniously couched in the form of a descril .
tion of a lisiniing, that he not only repents of his evil ways, but even
toirs till a vain ,ble rier^ptance of Clermont's, which he bolds, and
thus re.itices his claim to a debt of honour, A letter comes to
the aria, containing an order for two pictures to decorate t.e I'a_
lace ; he now feels ttrit his fortune is made,and that his debts will
br cleared, when the objects around him become dimmer and
di rimer, till he is quite blind, and and he sinks back, exclaiming that
he is risirel This terminates the first act. A year is supposed to
pass bef ire the commencement of the second, when we find the artist
still blind, and also have cause to suspect that there is SOII7C secret un-
derstanding between Lord Welforcl and his wife. Clermont learns from
his servant Andrew jiuckstone) that his wife still dresses AS well as
ev..r, and .dso hears enough to make him think the nobleman pays visits
t.i her. Iler anxiety to go to aballerinfirms his uneasiness; he extorts from
her a promise to remain at home, but is afterwards horrorstruck to find
that she has left the house without his knowledge. Believing now that his
wife has deserted him in his blindness, he is about to kill lninself, when
he suddenly discovers that Lady Charlotte has entered into an engage-
ment rit the Italian Opera-house, and has met with the most distin.
gui.ihed success, the ',intent Lord %%Telford being her patron. She has
taken this step to support her husband, but fearing that he might pre-
vent her carrying her plan into execution, has kept the whole affair a
secret. The delighted Frenchman now embraces his
and the curtain falls. The Character of Clermont is
very well con.
eeived. Banger's acting was excellent. Miss Taylor's Lady Charlotte
was an interesting performance. The piece was announced for re1..ei.i...,
Lent
by Mr, 1,41,8„., amid the most ela.mt.urous applause.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT:

HOU USE OF COMMONS, Jtar 30.

The SrEAh4!tt took the chair shortly before Four &Clock.
On the motion of Mr. HOLM ES the Sugar Refining
Patent Bill was read a third time and passed.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented a petition from Salford
in layout of Mr. Owen's Plan of Education, and praying that
Mr. Owen might be heard at the Bar.
Mr. GIBSON presented a petition from Ipswich against
the alienation of Church property.
Mr. HINDL EY presented a petition from Ashton-under
Lyme against idolatrous worship in India.
Lord SANDON presented a petition from Liverpool in
favour of the Small Tenements Bill.

Lord G. SOMERSET brought up the Report of the Fic-
titious Votes (Ireland) Committee.
Mr. GLADSTONE presented a petition from the Wes-
leyan Methodists of Newark and its neighbourhood. praying
the House to adopt such moasures as would give effect to the
dispatch sent by the East India Company, relative to Ilindoo
Idolatry.
Mr, PR AE D asked whether, in addition to the papers
already on the table relating to the King of Oude, there was
any additional correspondence connected with the subject.
Sir J. HOBHO USE replied that there was some papers,
bearing the date of 1832, which had reference to the subject,
and he should be happy to present them to the House. There
was another paper, the whole of which he could not present,
as there were memorandums giving accounts of certain persons
connected with the Royal Family of Oude, which it would be
extremely improper to lay on the table. He had no objection
to give extracts from that paper.
Lord STANLEY wished to call the attention of the Noble
Lord opposite to a petition that had been presented some time
since from the students of the university of Edinburgh, praying
the House to adopt some plan to take away the jurisdiction
which the present professors of that university possessed.
Lor J. RUSSELL said that in the next Session a Bill
would be introduced to give the Government greater powers
than they at present possessed.
Sir F. TRENCH gave notice that to-morrow he would
move for detailed returns relative to the expense incurred in
the various experiments lately made for lighting knd ventila-
ting the House.
Mr. WALLACE begged to ask the Noble Lord the
Secretary for the Home Department what steps he proposed
to take with respect to the complaint of Mr. Barr relative to
the conduct of the Sheriff of Renfrewshire.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the complaint had been re-
ferred to the Lord Advocate, who had caused an inquiry to
be instituted. He (Lord J. R.) had only received the report
that day, and all that he could then say was, that the matter
would receive his best consideration.
CANADA COUNCIL.

Sir JA ME S GRAHAM said, from the last accounts he had
seen from Canada, Lord Durham had appointed several Coun.
cillors, among whom he saw the name of Sir Charles Paget.
The question he wished to put was this—Was it true that Sir
Charles Paget was appointed one of the Special Council? Sir
Charles Paget was Commander-in-Chief of the Naval Forces,
and his command extended from the Gulf of Mexico to the
northern parts of America. To form a Special Council five
must be a quorum, and five only were appointed.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said it was quite true, as had
been reported, that Sir Charles Paget was one of the Special
Council appointed by Lord Durham. There was no doubt
that it was necessary five should be present if any deliberation
was required; but if Sir Charles Paget could not attend another
Council could be easily summoned.—( Hear.)

Sir JAMES GRAfIAM—Are they permanent?

Lord J. RUSSELL—They are not so permanent as to
prevent Lord Durham summoning another Special Council.
Lord S AND ON wished to ask a question of the Right
Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade. The
House was aware there bad been considerable negociation
between this country and the Government of Naples in re-
gard to abolishing the duty on oil on the one hand, and of
abolishing the duty on fish and iron on the other. He bad
been informed that the Neapolitans had converted brim-
stone into a monopoly, and had raised the price of that
article to very nearly double the amount it was before.
A French company had received the monopoly of the sulphur
trade in Sicily. He (Lord Sandon) wished to ask whether
the Right Hon. Gentleman was in possession of a copy of such
decree, by which this monopoly had been established ?—and if
so, whether he would have any objection to lay it on the
table ?
Mr. P. THOMSON replied that he bad heard the Neapo.
litan Government had established a monopoly of the Sulphur
trade in Sicily ; but he had not received an official copy of the
decree. When he did he would lay a copy of it upon the
table of the House.

the Report, i. e., at the times wheri.the official appointments
were gritnted. Some Pensions certainly had been giyeil 111;
later periods. But it was not fair to represent them as
having been surrendered under the apprehension of in-
quiry, Many persons had been reluctant to give up
their pensions because they did not wish to cast an implied re-
proach on those who retained them. This reluctance the ap-
pointment of the Committee removed. That was the principle
upon which persons of the highest eminence acted; that was
the principle adopted by Lord Sidmouth, Lord Farnborough,
Mr. Moore, and the Duchess of Newcastle. Although the
Committee saw that the circumstances of the party
were such as to enable them to dispense with the pension,
yet they thought that its reversion ought to be preserved.
He now came to the last class, to the consideration of
which the Committee approached with very great re-
luctance—that class was those parties where the pension
should altogether cease. Now he could have wished that
the result of the examination had been not to limit that class ;
but finding it necessary to come to a decision upon those pen-
sions which could not be defended, the Committee had no
other course to pursue. The Committee had discovered
with great surprise the state of the law relative to
pensions, by which the Crown was deprived of the power of
making charges upon the revenue for pensions. The moment
they discovered that, the opinion of the Law-officers of the
Crown was taken, which was conclusive upon the Committee.
The total amount of the savings in twenty years would be as
follows :—The maximum would be in 1839, 4,9001. ; in 1844,
34,000/. ; in 1849, 67,000/. ; in 1854, 90,000/. ; and in 1858
the total maximum of the saving would amount to no less than
101,0001. There was one thing which he wished to take
that public opportunity of correcting. He had been much
blamed for inquiring into the age of the parties on the Pension
List, especially of the ladies.—( A laugh.) He had fought
strenuously against it, but the Committee thought such in-
quiries were necessary, and therefore his lion. Friend the
Chairman of the Committee must bear all the blame of
that delicate proceeding. It was an almost useless in-
qu'ry, as one laly said she was a certain number of
years of age, which were less than the number of an-
nual payments which had been made to her.—( Hear.) He
bad now stated to the House the proceedings before the Com-
mittee, and the result of those proceedings; but he could not
help adverting to the recommendations with which the Com-
mittee had concluded their Report. Those recommendations
vo e of some importance, were unanimously agreed to
by the Committee, and were frankly and unreservedly
adopted by the Government as being additional safe-
guards against the possibility of fraud or deception.
In adverting to the resolution of the Committee recommend-
ing that the circumstance of poverty in the Peerage should
not be considered as justifying a pension, the Right Hon.
Gentleman said he thought such a provision necessary for
preserving the honour and dignity of the Peerage.—
( Hear, hear.) The Committee further advised that pensions
should be held liable to be withdrawn on appointments
to public offices. The concluding recommendation of the
Committee was, that the pensions should now be placed upon
the Consolidated Fund. And, after congratulating the House
on the favourable issue of the inquiry, the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman moved, " That provision be made enabling her Ma-
jesty provide out of the Consolidated Fund for pen-
sions granted previous to her Majesty's accession."
Sir CHARLES LEMON said that the pensions charged
upon the Duchy of Cornwall always formed part of the Civil
List.

Mr. WARBURTON. said that they were called upon to
give a vote without haying the smallest ground for knowing
whether the Committee had come to a proper conclusion or
not. In his opinion it would have been better for decency's sake
that Hon. Members should have the Report in their hands upon
which they were proceeding. For himself he could only say,
that he had not had half an hour to consider the recommendation
made in the Report, or to look over the various names
of the persons whose cases they were called to give their
judgment upon. He should therefore move that the further
consideration of the question should be adjourned till some
future day that might be agreed upon. If by agreeing to the
resolution they were only performing a formal act, and if by
so doing they were not confirming a line, a word, or a letter of
the Report, then he had no wish to throw any impediment in
the way of the Government.
Sir E. WILMOT begged to state that he had not attended
the Committee merely on account of severe illness.
Sir R. PEEL, notwithstanding what had fallen from the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, still retained all his former
opinions upon this subject.—( Hear.) He thought that all
pensions granted by a former Sovereign ought to have
been retained and the new system acted upon. He was of
opinion that the inquiry, if had at all, ought to have been
taken by the Crown. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had
said the grant of the pension was still to be considered to be
in the Crown. He ( Sir R. Peel) was afraid, if the recom-
mendations of the Committee were adopted, it would only be
nominally so.
Mr. SANFORD thought the investigation that had taken
place was most correct and proper, not only as regarded the
public, but as regarded the Pensioners themselves.—( Hear.)
As far as possible, the Committee did attempt to mete out to
every party the same measure of justice; and many cases, were
actually re-heard, when the decisions had not given satisfac-
tion. It was a very delicate investigation ; and it was to be
regretted that of any pension the withdrawal had been found
necessary to be recommended.
The resolution was then agreed to and the House resumed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
moved that the House should resolve itself into a Committee
of Supply.
Colonel SIBTHORP had a motion to make founded on the
returns he held in his hand. These returns he must say were
unsatisfactory and incomplete. The first was that of the Re-
cord Commission, which had been sitting thirty years.
Lord J. RUSSELL—That Commission has expired.
Colonel SIBTH OR P—The Noble Lord might say that
this Commission bad expired, but it was only the other day
a Bill was brought in, founded on its labours. This Commis-
sion had cost the country upwards of a million. The next re-
turn was that of the Tithe Commission ; this account was also
incomplete ; but, as far as it went, gave an amount of 3,4961.
Then there was the County Rates' Commission, 1,0921. 195.8 d.;
and that for the civil administration of the army, in which no-
thing had been done satisfactorily, and nothing, as yet, been
paid. The next was the Commission for rebuilding the Par-
liament Houses, in which no detail of the expence was given.
Then there was the Commission for Inquiring into the State of
Religious Instruction in Ireland, Now, he would ask the
Noble Lord, what good had been done by that Commission,
which had cost the country 43,0311. is. 9d ?—( Hear, hear.)
Another Commission was for the purpose of inquiring into the
grievances of the Canadians. This cost 10,000/., and, after
that expense, the country was now called upon for 500,0001.
for the purpose of keeping down the people whose grievances
the Commission was to remove.—( Hear, hear.) This, in his
opinion, was most absurd. There was a Commission to in-
quire into the fees and amoluments of public offices, and there
was another Tithe Commission, which cost 3,498/. Bs. Id. But
the most expensive was that of " Education in Ireland," the
cost of which amounted to 140,454/. Is. 7d., of which
114,2041. is. 4d,, had already been paid. He found that the
total amount already expended on Commissions, not including
the million for the Record Commission, nor the sum for the
Revising Barristers, nor the expenses incurred in the present
brutal system of managing the poor, amounted to 1,359,4001.
—( Hear, hear.) If they included all the items he had men-
tioned, they would have a total of upwards of three millions.
He thought these facts formed sufficient grounds to entitle
him to ask for this Committee. He begged, therefore, to
move for " A Select Committee to inquire into the various
Commissions that have been issued since 11330, to the present
time or period at which the above return may be dated."
On the question being put,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
that in issuing the Commissions there was no expense incurred
which could possibly be avoided, and the expenses in all in-
stances had been brought under the notice and obtained the
sanction of Parliament, either under particular Acts of Par-
liament or in the proposition of the estimates. No Committee
which the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman could obtain
would furnish him more information upon the subject than he
could obtain fioni the papers issued daily to Members. If
the Committee were granted very important questions would
be incidentally introduced which ought not to be discussed in
such a manner. For these reasons, and not taking into ac-
count the late period of the Session--for he would not allow
of any hope that such a proposition as that made by the Hon.
aod Gallant Gentleman would, under any circumstances, be
agreed to, he felt bound to oppose the motion. -
Lord INGESTRE was understood to refer to the Malta
Commission as having been very expensive, and at the same
time furnishing a very meagre report.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said that
the Malta Commissiom had been productive of great good.
The motion was then negatived without a division, and the
House went into Committee.

WELLINGTON MEMORIAL.
Lord W. BENTINCK wished to know whether her Ma-
jesty's Ministers had given their consent with respect to the
site sought for the testimonial to the Duke of Wellington.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
it was the most anxious desire of Government to give every
assistance in their power to the proposed object ; but they
thought, at the same time, that it was necessary to take par-
ticular care that a testimonial raisedgilhaonpoousritoiofnthfoer firstthe
military character of this or of any other age should be suit-
able
should meet
and creditable., and such. as the public could not object
mtoo.numGio,nvte,rimimaednet,itina
cpornodpiotsi9inngthtaot
the
design
their approval. By this nothing. offensive was meant to any
party ; but Ministers deemed it necessary, when such a public
object was on foot, not to lay themselves open to reproof by
having a monument erected in the metropolis unworthy of the
occasion.
A NOBLE Lono, whose name we could not learn, was glad
to hear that there was to be some check with respect to the
artist and the design. It would be a reproof to the Govern-
ment if they allowed the monument to be erected upon the
triumphal arch, which was the greater eye-sore in the me-
tropolis. It was a blur on the lonic srreen cppAite, which
was the only instance of good taste exhibited in any of our
modern structures. In fact, the arch was a nothing—leading
to nothing—and reminded one of a mile-stone in the middle
of a turnpike-road.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
if the monument were erected upon the arch it would be
only retrilmt:ve justice ; for if the lonic screen destroyed the
arch, a colossal statue upon the arch would destroy the lonic
screen.
The conversation then dropped and the Estimates v,ere pro-
ceeded with.
On the proposal that 50,0001. be granted to ths Lord
Lieutenant, for the purposes of education in Ireland,
Mr. S. O'BRIEN rise, and was proceeding to object to
the manner in which the money was distributed, when
An Hon. MENIBER moved that the House be c;.,anted,

The, House was counted accordingly, and more than forty
111} berg being
,presr_mt,
Mr. O'BRIEfi ufed Or vm,essity of having a national
school in every parish in treianct ,
Mr. J. GRATTAN said that, instead of the 1, +i st..llBols
now in Ireland, with salaries of 10/. to their respective schor,,,,
masters, it would be better to have only 800 efficient schools
with salaries of from 201. to 30/. each.
Lord MORPETH said that the money granted for these
purposes was governed by certain regulations, one of which
was, that no grant should be made to any place where a local
fund had not bees first raised, and it would be found that, in
all instances where complaint was made, that it arose out of
the circumstances of the regulations not having been complied
with. He was glad to say that the hostility with which the
system of education had been met was rapidly subsiding.
Colonel SIBTHORP perceived by the estimate that the
Secretary was allowed 500/. per annum, and the Commissioner
only 3001. He should wish that the Hon. Members opposite
would inform him why this difference existed.
• •

Lord MO R PET H- said that the Commissioners were ap-
pointed originally as unpaid Commissioners, and up to the
present period they had acted in that capacity. The sum of
300/. alluded to by the Hon. and Gallant Member was for the
purpose of compensating one of the Commissioners for a Pres-
byterian living of 300/. per annum in the city of Dublin,
which he had relinquished in order to be enabled to discharge
the duties of his office with more facility and efficiency.
Sir E. HAYES thought the objection raised by the don.
Member for Wicklow, namely, that the Commissioners looked
to the quantity of the schoOls more than to the quality, was a
very serious one indeed, and he should say that the evils which
that Hon. Gentleman stated to exist in those afforded a strong
ground of justification to the complaints which were made at
that side of the House.

Sir C. STYLE approved of the present mode in which the
schools were regulated.
Colonel PE RC EVA L had a good deal of confidence with
regard to those schools, and he would assure the House that
they were regarded, particularly in the North, as especially
devoted to the interests of the Roman Catholics ; so generally
prevalent was this belief, that scarcely any but Roman Catho-
lics attended them. He did not know of any instance where
a Protestant permitted his children to attend them, for Pro-
testants found that in thoso schools the religious tenets of their
children would be interfered with. When last he spoke upon
this subject, he had expressed his opposition to those schools,
and he could assure them that the objections in his mind were
now stronger than ever.
Mr. V. SMITH defended the national schools.

Mr. HUTTON said the expenses incurred for the pur-
pose of advancing those schools had been productive of vast
advantage.
Mr. GLADSTONE wished not to be understood as ap-
proving of all the details of the national schools, but he con-
sidered the joint-education system a great benefit, and de-
cidedly the best that could be adopted in Ireland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rejoiced to
hear the Hon. Member express himself so favourably towards
the schools.

Mr. WYSE defended the national schools.
['he vote was then passed.
The next vote was 12,5001. to defray the expenses of the
Foundling Hospital in Dublin.
The following votes were then agreed to :-
20,000/. to defray the expences of the Lying-in Hospital,
Dublin.

1501. for the Royal Hibernian Marine School.
1,0001. for the Female Orphan Asylum, Circular-road
Dublin.

2,0001. for the support of the Lock Hospital, Dublin.
1,5001. to defray the expenses of Dr. Stevenson's Hospital,
Dublin.

3,8001. for the Fever Hospital, Cork• street, Dublin.
5001. for the Hospital of Incurables, Dublin.
Upon the vote of 8,9281. towards the College of Maynooth
being put,
Colonel SIBT HORP rose to object to the vote now before
them. At present he would not press any motion upon the
subject, but he felt it his duty to express his protest individually
against the vote, and he would at a future period move for a
Select Committee to inquire into the mode of education, &c.,
of the College of Maynooth.
Colonel PE RCE VA L was opposed to the vote. They
were guilty of a dereliction of duty in granting a vote to sup-
port an institution for the education of a body of men who had
used a most mischievous influence in Ireland, and who
would doubtless continue to do so if they were en-
couraged. They had done a great deal to create riot, and
tumult, and excitement in that country, and it was for this
they were to be granted a vote. He was old enough to re-
member when the Priests were educated abroad, and he re-

membered the good effect thus produced upon them. They
were then a different description of men from the Priests of
the present day, living principally in the interchange of hospi-
tality and good feeling with the country gentlemen around
them ; but the Priests of Maynooth were the very reverse.
Colonel VE RNE R would move that the vote should be
postponed until a Select Committee should be appointed to
inquire into the management of the College of Maynooth.
The CHANCELLOR of tbe EXCHEQUER said the
Hon. and Gallant Member could not make such a motion as
that which be had named. He might oppose the vote if he
pleased, but the Committee of Supply could not postpone it
upon a contingency such as the appointment of a Select Com-
mittee. If the Catholic Clergy were all educated abroad the
objections against them would be still stronger than if they
were educated at Maynooth. The withdrawal of the grant
would only have the effect of benefitting the College in the
minds of the Irish people ; and, as respected the vote, it had
been suggested and advocated by Mr. Pitt and Edmund Burke.
Were they now to reject a vote which had passed in every Par-
liament since 1796 ?
Mr. ELLIS trusted that the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman
would not press his motion this Session.
Colonel VE RNE R quoted an instance of the part taken by
a Roman Catholic Priest within the last few days, which he
defied any one to shew him a parallel in the case of a Pro-
testant Clergyman. It was the presidency at an anti-tithe
dinner on the Sunday in the county of Kilkenny by the Rev.
Martin Doyle, the parish Priest of the neighbourhood. The
Rev. Gentlemen was reported to have then declared his
declaration to oppose any tithe law, and to agitate, agitate,
agitate. On his right was Mr. Hogshaw, and he (Colonel
Verner) now called on the Noble Lord opposite to know whe-
ther that gentleman was still to be continued in the commis-
sion of the peace?
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the toast of "The Battle of
the Diamond" had not been drunk there.—( Hear.) With re-
spect to the motien before the Committee he (Mr. O'Connell)
had no objection to inquiry, so it was wide enough, and included
Oxford, Cambridge, and Dublin. But it was too bad that the
three Gallant Colonels should come forward and join in the
attack upon Maynooth alone.
" Three Colonels in three different counties born,
Lincoln, Armagh, and Sligo did adorn.
The first in gravity of face surpased ;
Sobriety, the next, and grace the last.
The fore e of nature could no farther go—
To beard the first, she shaved the other two."
( Laughter. )
Mr. GLADSTONE objected to the grant.
Lord MOIiPETEI did not rise to defend the origin of the
grant, but to object to the expediency of opposing it at this
moment. 900,0001. had been recently granted for the im-
provement of the Protestant Clergy in Ireland, and yet
8,9001. was objected to now for the improvement of the Ca-
tholic Priesthood. What was there in the circumstances o I
the time which arrayed all the forces of intolerance against the
Government ? The Noble Lord then read some passages
from a work of the Rev. Mr. Brown, recently published by
the Rev. Mr. Newman, to prove that Catholicism was gaining
ground in the University of Oxford.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that a case of more cruel injustice
had never been done than that done by the Noble Lord, or a
piece of more vulgar malignity had never been published. The
facts of the case were these—the work in question was written
by a young man of no name in the University, and was not
published until after his death. The Noble Lord had acted
unfairly in quoting certain passages, without referring to the
preface of the editor ; and he would repeat the course he had
taken when the cheers that his supporters greeted him with
should have died away.
Lord MORPETH could not discover his crime from the
sore reply of the lion. Member, He should only repeat what
he had said, that lie quoted from the book without selection.
Mr. WYSE said that the fact was well known that Popery
existed in Oxford, and that it was a description of Popery, too,
most adverse to the Reformation.
After a few words from Colonel VERNER,
Sir R. INGLIS knew nothing of the book referred t 3 by
the Noble Lord, but he was satisfied that it was not authorized
by the University.
Sir C. DOUGLAS should vote for the grant—a circum-
stance which would prove to the satisfaction of the House that
the side on which he sat were no Tory bigots.
Lord MORPETH said the Hon. Baronet the Member for
Oxford knew as little of the motion before the House as he

did of the book in question.
Mr. AC L AND said the Noble Lord seemed to know as
little of the book as the lion. Baronet was stated by him to
know ; for if he had read the preface of the editor he would
have found passages extracted from the body of the work in
allusion to the Roman Catholic Church, which he (Mr. Ac.
land) should, in respect to his fellow-countrymen of that per.
suasion. refrain from quoting.
Mr. SHIEL wished to know whether the Hon. Member for
Newark, as Under Secretary of the Colonies, objected to the
grant of 1,000/. a year to the Bishop of Quebec for the en-
couragement of the Catholic religion in Canada.
Mr. GLADSTONE had voted for the grant as for a
vested right, which would expire with the Bishop of Quebec.
Mr. O'CONNE LL hoped that Maynooth would be saved
by the Honourable and Gallant Colonel as Rome was by a
goose.—( Hear.) He ( Mr. O'Connell) was delighted to find
that there was an approximation to Catholicism in the English
Universities.
Mr. GA LI. Y KNIGHT said, that, if this grant was put
to the vote, he would support it ; but he begged leave to say
that this House should not be made an arena for polemical dis-
cussions.
The CHAIRMAN then put the question, and declared that the
Ayes had it.
300/. to defray the expense of the Royal Irish Academy.
—Agreed to.
3001. to defray the expense of the Royal Hibernian Aca-
denly.—Agreed to.
5001. to defray the expences of the Royal Dublin Society.
Mr. MUTTON objected to the political 'constitution of
this society, and to the continuance of this grant until it had
complied with the recommendation of the Parliamentary Com-
mittee with respect to the freer admission of Members.
Colonel VERNER bore testimony to the utility of the so-
ciety and to the absence of all political feeling.
Lord MORPETII said that as the Royal Dublin Society