The Sun.
London, England, 1831-12-16 00:00:00

last degree—l believe that no Noble Lord will say we
ought to hesitate in applying instant means of protection
and defence whe❑ the thunder threatens us over head, and

the earthquake rocks the ground on which we stand. I
hope, then, that the course which we have resolved to
take—and that which I sincerely believe is the only course
left to us—will have the effect of establishing that peace
and tranquillity of which Ireland stands so much in need—
that some measure will be devised to reconcile animosities,
diffue contentment, clear up difficulties, give scope for en-
lightened benevolence, and for the maintenance of equal,
impartial, and just laws.—(Cheers. )

The question having been put,
Lord WICKLOW hoped he would not he found to
deviate, in the few observations he had to make, from the
line chalked out by the Noble Viscount. After the speech
delivered from the throne, and after the discussions which
had taken place in that House respecting the state of Ireland,
he had at least expected that the House would now have
had some insight afforded into the objects and intentions of
Government. It was with sincere satisfaction the Noble
Lord had heard the reference made to the state of Ireland
which theßoyal speech made to it; he confessed that previous
to that he bad apprehended his Majesty's Ministers were
❑ot sufficiently alive to the evils which existed in that
country, and he (Earl W.) had come over to
England wills a full determination himself to bring
the subject before the House, provided he had found
it hail not been taken up by some person of greater weight
than himself. The Noble Viscount, in his speech, to-
night, had not exaggerated the evils existing in his un-
happy country, nor indeed had he gone the length to which
he might have proceeded in his details of the lamentable con-
dition of Ireland. There were at this moment in several
par:abes in that country, clergymen whose families bad been
brought up in affluence, and who were obliged now to live
like the peasants of Ireland, on nothing but potatoes and
milk. This, however, was an evil which did not prevail
throughout Ireland, it was confined principally to one
extensive district—the diocese of Dr. Doyle. He was
far from meaning to say that the Catholics, as a body,
were averse to the payment of tithes; on the contrary,
many of them were much more regular in the payment of
tithes than the Protestants before Dr. Doyle began to
write pamphlets. But bow stood matters now in the dio-
cese of that Right Rev. Doctor ?—Nothing was paid to
the Protestant clergy; and in other parts of the county
the clergy did not receive a tithe of their• tithes. In
making these observations, however, he begged it to be un-
derstood that nothing was further from his mind than to
vilify the great body of the Catholic clergy ; he had often
been their warm though humble defender, but he could
not refrai❑ from some observations upon the effect pro-
duced by the influence of the Right Rev. Doctor, when he
found him saying that the resistance to tithes on the part
of the people of Ireland, arose from their attachment to
justice, and expressing a hope that their " hatred of tithes
might he as lasting as their love of justice. In addition
to the effects of Dr. Doyle's influence, which was great
and extensive, there was another fertile source of the resist-
ance at present offered to the payment of tithes in Ireland,
and that was to be found in the agitation which the de-
magogues so efficiently maintained. It could not but
be in the recollection of the House that not long since a
question was put to the Noble Earl, as to whether or not
it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to renew
the lately expired Bill for the suppression of seditious as-
semblies in Ireland, and the answer given was in the affir-
mative ; yet that session and another passed away without
any step of that kind having been taken. Now be wished
to know of the Noble Earl what had since taken place to
induce Government to change their• opinion. Perhaps it
might have been thought that those societies owed their
existence to the influence and activity of one individual,
and if the obstacle which his conduct opposed to the peace
and welfare of Ireland were removed, the necessity for any
special legislation might disappear at the same time ; but
how had circumstances turned out ? That individual had
cast the apple of discard amongst the Irish people, and the
exchange of a silk gown for a stuff one did nut appear• to
have wrought any change in his temper or disposition—
the patent of precedence appeared to have been thrown
away upon him. It bad been insinuated, nay openly
stated that Government made overtures ,with a view to
obtaining the support of that individual. If such were the
fact, it ought to be known and explicitly stated ; if not,
the Noble Earl opposite ought to relieve himself and his
colleagues from so foul an imputation ; and he thought
this more necessary to be adverted to, from the conviction
that at the present moment a counteraction had taken
place, and that a strong feeling prevailed, not only amongst
Catholics but amongst Protestants—he meant a feeling of
alienation from the Government. The Protestants too
felt that their only security was in opposing the Catholics
by associations similar to that which they set on foot, for
" when bad men combine, good men must associate." He
was not himself a membcr of soy of tliunc ssaoo'iatians, hut
be felt that times required he should come forward in that
House, of which he was a Member, and state his senti-
ments. There was one suggestion which appeared to have
been thrown out by the Noble Viscount, which was, that
the payment of tithes ought to be incorporated with the
rent. That he conceived would be unjust in the highest
degree towards the landlord, and from any such plan he
should feel it his duty to withhold his consent. In thus
expressing his sentiments generally upon the proposition
then before their Lordships, be begged it to be understood
that he did not impute any blame
,to the present Govern-
ment of Ireland, in reference to the course they had taken
during the late disputes between the clergy and those who
ought to pay tithes, They had given such assistance as
could be afforded by police and military ; but while they
repressed disturbances on the one hand, all evil in-
fluence was exerted on the other. It was, then,
deeply to be regretted that the King's Government
should, at a moment like the present—at a crisis
when the country was on the verge of anarchy—choose
for its friend and counsellor a man who, by a trick, had
been just snatched from the arms of the law ; who, if he
had been fairly tried by a jury, would have been sent to
prison, is liberated by the conduct of the Irish Govern-
ment, in permitting an Act to expire which had been
founded in a wise and just policy. Instead, then, of pm -
secuting that man, the Government was found encourag-
ing such a person, and holding him out to the public as
the friend, the companion, and the adviser of the Govern-
ment. Such proceedings ought surely to be put an end
to, at a moment when the country was on the verge of
anarchy. He said on the verge of anarchy—but though
lie felt that a crisis of the most dangerous character was at
hand, he had no doubt that, despite all its difficulties, it
would come triumphantly through the ordeal. He had
fears for the sa'ety of Ireland. He saw the loyalty, the
wealth, and the power of the country arrayed at one side,
and he saw nothing on the other but the mete populace,
led on by demagogues and adventurers. Such were
his persuasions certainly ; but at the same. time he ear-
nestly desired to see some measures adopted really calcu-
lated to allay the ferment at present subsisting in Ireland.
This remark, however, was not dictated by hostile spirit
towards any of the parties personally who took an active
part in the affairs of Ireland. He could sincerely assure
their Lordships he was not influenced by so much as even
a single spark of political hostility ; but common sense,
and the most dispassionate exercise of reason, could not
fail to show to the Noble Earl opposite that he could not
have to encounter a more insidious enemy than those who
professed themselves his friends. At the present moment,
and in the present state of Ire'and, it was of the utmost
importance that it should not he believed such an indi-
vidual had been offered an office of considerable importance
and had rrjected it. But to return to the motion pro-
posed by the Noble Viscount. Though not approving of
the manner in which it had been brought forward, and
though not anticipating much advantage from the species
of legislation proposed to be adopted in reference to Irish
tithes, he still trusted that Noble Lords would go into the
Committee with every desire to carry the object of their•
appointment to a satisfactory conclusion.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE denied that the Go-
vernment were following the advice of the individuals to
whom the Noble Earl alluded. For his part, he antici-
pated considerable advantage from the appointment of
such a Committee as that which hail been just proposed.
He wished to see the Protestant church well provided, and
safely and securely established in its income—therefore,
did he desire to see its revenues placed upon a proper footing,
and not exacted from the industrious and labouring poor,
but from the opulent landlords. The Noble Earl had al-
luded to the Irish demagogues—indeed had spoken in the
plainest terms of Mr. O'Connell—but he seemed to say
that Dr. Doyle and Mr. O'Connell were both labouring for
the same object, when the fact was, they were at this mo-
ment at daggers drawn. He thought the Noble Earl (of
Wicklow) had stated no good grounds for resisting the ap-
pointment of the Committee. The Noble Earl, indeed,
observed, that he was surprised the Noble Viscount had not
given their Lordships more information upon the subject ;
but the Noble Earl should remember, that it was for the
purpose of procuring information that the Noble Viscount
moved for the Committee. The subject was certainly one
of great delicacy, and exceeding difficulty ; but yet he
thought that they might look to the ltbours of the Com-
mittee with confidence, when they considered the benefits
which had been already conferred upon Ireland by the
Tithe Compositio❑ Act. He supported the motion for the
Committee, because he believed that it would lead to re••
sults which would ensure the tranquillity of the country,
and the permanence of the Established Church.
Lord ELLENBVROUGU said be felt it impossible to