The Sun.
London, England, 1822-03-07 00:00:00

sewn
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(Cheers.)—They and they alone were accountable for those pro.
ceedings, and whatever consequeneei resulted from rashly attempt-
ing that which so deservedly failed, and only reflected discredit
on themselves. He wished the House to be apprized that what
occurred at Brunswick respecting the omission of the funeral
service, was perfectly conformable to the usage of the country on
such solemn occasions. The interment took place with all the
funeral pomp and ceremonies which were ascertained and certi-
fied to be the practice in that country. No funeral sermon had
been preached, although a short discourse was pronounced simi-
lar to the service in the case of the late lamented Duke of
Brunswick-.--' This custom might be, and was 'different from our
- own habits, but the departure from our usual ceremonies was
not the fault of those entrusted with the conduct of the funeral,
but a necessary compliance with the custom and habits of an-
other nation. He would then put it to the feelings of the
House .whether, under the circumstances, the funeral of her
Majesty had not been conducted with the respect, and solemnity,
. and deference, which was usual and customary in the event of
the death of other branches of the Royal Family.--(Hear .I.)
i-1e trusted he had preserved the pledge he had given to the
. , Houie when he first rose, to confine himself strictly to a defence
against the charge made against the members of his Ma-
jesty's Government. He certainly was not conscious of having,
_even inadvertently, alluded to those parts of the case which
'night have excited any irritation, or of having excited any of
those angry recollections which it was desirable perhaps to let
slumber: In this forbearance he had been actuated, he hoped,
• by the best motive. He, for the reasons just stated, should
feel it his duty to oppose the motion.
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that he should never have reviv-
ed the Subject then before the House, if the present motion
bad not been brought forward. That being done, however,
it became his duty to give his opinion, and to explain certain
facts and circumstances with whirls he had been personally
connected. He should endeavour to follow the example of
•the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, by abstaining
from all topics which could he properly left out of the dis-
c4sion.- It had been his misfortune throughout the whole
of this unfortunate case, to incur blame from both the par-
ties connected with it. He incurred blame from those who
supported his Majesty's Ministers, for having taken too ac-
tive a part ; and he incurred blame from those who were pe-
culiarly called the Queen's friends, for nut having gone far
-enough in support of the dignity anti solemnity of the fa-
- neral arid he was afraid that he should still disagree with
both sides-in some parts of the speech be was about to make.
He had a difficult course to steer, and that which lie did, lie
conscientiously thought to be for the best. Above all, be
had taken care not to suffer the exercise of the power of that
situation to which her Majesty appointed hint, to be polluted,
. (for he could call it nothing else) by party motives.—(Hear,
bear!)—He trusted the House. would pardon him if lie went
into some details, for the purpose of explaining what did oc-
cur, and what did not occur, with regard to the ceremony of
her Majesty's funeral. The moment the decease took place,
he dispatched a messenger to Lord Liverpool, acquainting-Pam
with the fact. He was then occupied dining the night in
arranging the papers of her Majesty, which it was necessary
' shook! be placed in a state of security.. The next day, at
• twelve o'clock, he had his first interview with the First Lord
of the Treasury. In giving the House an account of what
Passed between himself and that Noble Individual, in his ah-
Bence, he was sure that he should rather state the case against
himself than otherwise. If he knew his own heart, he was in-
capable of misrepresenting in the slightest degree any thing
Which passed under such circumstances. The first words
which Lord Liverpool addressed to him were—" I have no
hesitation its informing you, that it is the intention of his
Majesty's Government to bear the expellees of the funeral."
He (Dr. L.) confessed that he was at the time so ignorant of
the nature of such occurrences, that he did not know where
the expellee was to come from. He asked. the Noble Lord
what facilities would be afforded to the. Executors to have
the body interred according to the directions of the Will.
Lord Liverpool requested that the First Lord of the Admi-
ralty might be consulted as to the means of conveying the
corpse across the sea. He bath then to enter into communi-
cation -with Lord Melville and the Hon. Admiral opposite;
and frous them lie not only received every possible civility,
-but every possible accommodation and assistance. Nay,
more, it was in justice due for' bins to state that Lord Mel-
ville had carried this kindness so far as to give him a per.-
suual recommendation to Captaiis Doyle. The Eaa-I of Liver-
:pool, anxious that the corpse should be removed as speedily
aspOssible to its destinations, Saturday was first named fur
the day of its departure; but he (Dr. Lushington) remon-
strated, and Monday was titers fixed. The motives of this
haste on the part of Ministers Lord Liverpool declared to
be—first, the directions of the Queen; anti, secondly, that
his Majesty was then waiting to land in Ireland, amid the
country in a state of great anxiety fur that event ; so that
the greatest inconvenience must arise from the body not leav-
ing the country with all possible and decent dispatch. His
Lordship further stated, that it would be desirable to consi-
der the body's being put on board as equal to interment. He
• (Or. Lushington) acceded at once to these proposals, for he
' saw reason in them. He thought it desirous that the re-
mains should lie removed with speed, as far as decorum and
propriety would admit. He thought so, because he felt that
it would he a mockery to expect, that after all which had
passed, the Royal Personage who was then absent should be
tiverwhellised with sorrowat his loss.—(Hear'.)—But lie after-
wards found that the species of dress necessary fur the occa-
sion could riot be prepared in time. He found also that there
would_ be the greatest diffieultieS to eticounto on the other
side of the water. He was informed that when they arrived
at Stadt, they would find no incouveniances whatever for
prosecuting the journey, with the retinue necessary to tine
solemnity. He applied to Baron Best, the representative of
the Hanoverian Minister, Count Munster, and found that be
tad been correctly infornsed upon this subject. He unite,-
stood from Lord Liverpool that the time of performin,, the
journey to Hai %rich was to be two days, if it could ber.done
its that time with due decorum and propriety, if not three days
were to be allowed. He titers went to Baron Best again, and
inquired whether any specific arrangements had been made
at Stadt for the conveyance of the corpse and the procession
forward to Brunswick. He was informed by the Baron that
no carriages could be procured, that they could get nothing
but German waggoners. A messenger was to be sent to Stadt
on the Tuesday, when the corpse was tin be removed from Bran-
slenbtirgh House. As this persons had also to cross the sea,
-there was no possibility of his arriving at Stadt before the
funeral ; and they would consequently find no orders given,
and be obliged to remain its the town for several days. It
would have been utter madness in hints to have undertake-n
the conduct of the solemnity under such circumstances. He
was told that when be arrived at Harwich, tire body would
be delivered into his care, with two undertakers' men and the
hearse. In this condition they were to land at Stadt, where
-nothing could be procured but German waggons, and horses
that were taken fronts the farms. It was under these circum-
stances that he had given up all the direction and responsi-
bility of the funeral, in violation to his own feelings and
wishes. After (Isis he was naturally anxious that a person
filling the rank of a Gentleman should superintend the so-
lemnity. It was due in decorum and in decency, that the
funeral of the Queen of England should be conducted by a
person filling, at least, the rank of a Gentleman. He com-
plained tipoji this ground, because he saw with indignation
the condition in which the Queen's remains were left. , On
the morning of the 14th August, be repaired at an early hour
to Brandenburgh House, where he inquired if any one was
there to take charge of the body ? For a long time nobody ap-
peared. At last a person came who said he was ordered to
take charge of it; a person who had nothing of the character
which he had described as necessary to the situation lie was
'to fill. He (Dr. Lushington) asked hint for Isis authority,
when be produced the paper for regulating the ceremo-
tsial. Upon his remonstrating on the insufficient na-
ture of the authority, this person asked him if he meant
to oppose the removal of the body by force. He answered,
•certainly riot. There could be nothing farther from his
-ierislies than to violate the decorum of a death-bed. With
'regard to'the use of the military, he begged leave to dissent
from what had been said by his Hon. Friend upon that sub-
ject. He always considered a guard of honour necessary
-upon the occasion, and that they were sent as a due mark of
respect to her Majesty. The Honourable and Learned Mem-
ber then explained why he did not admit the public into
Brandenburgh House upon the morning of the funeral. It
.was impossible to adroit all the populace, and the _difficulty
'of issuing tickets was incompatible with the haste necessary
to be observed. The body then set off, and he accompanied
it, but havingEno authority whatever. Upon the first stop.
page which took place, he would relate what occurred, to
shew that Isis conduct had been marked by caution and
propriety. An Officer rode up to his carriage, and stated his
belief that they could not proceed in theappointed route. He
understood him (Dr. L.) to be invested with authority to take
the funeral which way he thought hest, and begged that he
would give him orders to proceed the other way. He (Dr.
L.) said that he possessed no suds authority, and then recom-
mended what was afterwards dune, namely, that a messenger
should be dispatched to the Earl of Liverpool for fresh in-
structions.—(Hear, hear!)—The Hun. and Learned Gentle-
man then condemned the endeavour to prevent the proces-
sion front going through the city, and dwelt upon the demon-
strations of honest grief and sorrow Irons all classes of people.
Be had heard with regret something which fell from the
Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, which' seemed to
'intimate that the illustrious personage, at that titne on his
-way to Ireland, bad ordered the route laid down for the pro-
cession. He could not believe that Ministers would nut re-
tain to themselves the latitude of acting as they thought most
accordant to their responsibility upon such an occasion.-
1-16 then referred to, the affray at Cumberland-gate, and
stated that he saw Sir R. Wilson before he went to the sol-

acct.,

diers to endeavour to stop the firing; and that he attempted
to dissuade him therefrom, as be was convinced that he would
be doing so at the hazard of • his life. Front the manner and
conversation of. his Hon. Friend, he believed, if that was the
last moment of his life, that his only motive in so doing was
the desire of preventing the effusion of blood. They arrived
at Rumford at eight o'clock, and he would state to the House
the persons who had charge of the funeral at that place,
First and foremost, there was the illustrious personage of
whom he had before spoken—Mr. Thomas; the next, win,
was much better, was Mr. Chippendale, a person who let out
horses and carriages; and last, though not frost, for he al-
ways behaved with propriety—was Mr. Bailey, a partner in
the house of Saunders and Bailey, undertakers. This was
the triumvirate who governed every thing; and their orders
were given in a manner' which shewed that they were quite
conscious of their power: When he once remonstrated at
the time at which the procession was to move, be was an-
swered -by Thomas, that if any one presumed to alter the
time, he would cell in the military.—(Hear, hear!)—He
then set off to Chelmsford, and before arriving at that place
the horses were knocked up, and the whole processioß was
in a disgraceful state of disorder. When theylot there, and
the body was taken from the hearse, Sir G. Nayler was not to
be found. The crown and enshiOn were placed upon the
coffin by some oile else, for Sir G. Nayler had gone off com-
fortably to bed. They set off at eleven next. day for Colches-
ter, and arrived there at four in the afternoon. They were
then told by the ruling triumvirate that they must proceed
again at eight that evening. He remonstrated against this
in vain, until he produced the letter of the Earl of Liverpool,
in which he stated, that if the body could nut be removed
with decorum and propriety in two days, three should he
allowed. This produced some effect, and it was at last de-
cided that they shbuld proceed at five the next mining. To
this he was obliged to accede ; for to have opposed the trium-
virate., backed as they were by the military, would have
been to place his life in danger. He next came to the in-
scription on the coffin, and he would relate the whole cir-
cumstances connected with that point. He *as with her Ma-
jesty the night before her decease, previouS to which time
she had scarcely sent for him fur four weeks. She desired
him to promise her that he would use his best endeavours to
have the inscription placed upon her collies. He considered
at the time the great responsibility which the promise invol-.
ved, and he begged she Would repeat her commands, if she
wished hint to execute them. This she did with her dying
breath. Not being satisfied with this, he proposed that it
should be inserted as a codicil to the Will, which was accord-
ingly done. He took this precaution, because lie felt that it
would not he enough for him to come forward after her Ma-
jesty's death and say, that she had made a private request to
such an effect. He foresaw all the difficulties which this re-
quest would bring upon him: lint he was determined to exe-
cute it to the'best of his abilities. When be presented the.
will to Lord Liverpool, the Noble Lord observed, that the Go
vernment could not carry this codicil into effect, as they would
thereby lie casting a censure upon themselves. The Hon. and
Learned Member solemnly declared that he had always un-
derstood the objection of the Earl of Liverpool to be to the
Ministers ordering this inscription themselves. He might have
been wrung in this, but he believed that the Government did
not mean to interfere with the executors .if they affixed the
inscription to the coffin. The plate was not ready until the
morning of the 14th, and there was no opportunity of placing
it in its situation whilst the corpse was in England, but that
which presented itself at Colchester. He felt himself thus pla-
ced in the most difficult circumstances. lie felt reluctance to
perform this race in the church, and he felt that this was the
last opportunity he should have of performing it at all. tie beg-
ged that the House would. not look at this circumstance with
coolness and reflection, without considering the feelings by
which he was agitated at the time. He took the'alternative

b bad pledgrd his honour—his sacred honour to his dying

mistress, and he acted to the best of his judgment a just part,
and if he were again placed under similar circumstances, so
help him GOD, he would pursne the same course.-----(Hear,
hear !J—He knew that it had been said that he profaned the
House of God ; and he knew that there were canting metho-
dists, who had approved his conduct to his face, and tradocoed
him behind his back. He chose a time for his purpose, when
the Church was nearly empty. and it was nut until the plate
had beers affixed to the coffin for three minutes, that any re-
presentation was made upon the subject. He left the Church
and saw no indecorous disturbance. He slid hear 'hats the

.aitary afterwards entered. but that was after he was gone,
and he saw nothing of it. They then proceeded to Harwich,
where the body was taken out of the hearse, and conveyed
along the quay in such haste that he was obliged to run to
keep up with it. There was no pall upon the coffin, and the
boat in which it was conveyed was filled.. so that he could not
-unpany it. The Hon. Member for Huntingdon compelled
.s of the undertaker's men and four carriages to eruhaik for
Stadt, and even with this force they had the greatest diffi-
culty in proceering when they arrived there. With one little
exception he had no complaint to make as to the conduct of
the funeral for the remainder of the journey to Brunswick.
There was another point upon which he was anxious to vin-
dicate his own conduct from misrepresentations which. had
gone abroad. One of the Hon.Nlembers for the City of Lon-
don had considered himself neglected in not being allowed to
accompany the funeral as one of the Household.. He had
considered the lion. Member as a friend of urielate Queen,
and he had intended to provide for his attendance its that
capacity. But Lord Liverpool subsequently desired hint, to
put down the names of all the Household, for whom provision
would be made. This of course excluded the Hon. Alder-

man, and he sent him a copy of the letter. When they were
at lia‘rwich, lie was again applied to, to put down the name
, of the Hon. Alderman. But he would again ask, how in the
name of honour he could, acting upon the same principles,
put him down as one of the Household at IlarWich, when he
had refused to do so at Brandenburgh House ? Three weeks
after this he was astonished to find that his letter, and that
of Lord Liverpool's, had been printed, with another censur-
ing his conduct front the Hon. Alderman, whom he had dur-
ing that period seen at Brunswick, without his saying a word
upon the subject. The Hun. and Learned Gentleman then
adverted to his intercourse' with the Queen previous to her
death. Some months had elapsed, during which he was sel-
dom with her. He considered that his duty was at an end
when the trial finished, and, amongst other reasons, his pro-
fessional engagements greatly operated to prevent his being
with her Majesty; but above all, he depredated becoming her
political adviser. He avoided it, because he did not feel him-
self qualified, and because lie was satisfied that the Queen
would be so much better advised by her then Attorney and
Solicitor-General. With regard to the motion before the
House, as an honest man, he must acquit the Earl of Liver-
pool of any charge of intentional disrespect to her Majesty.
He knew his intentions to be of an opposite nature, from all
the intercourse which he bad with hint upon the subject.
He did, however, think that the best means were not taken
td shew a due respect to her Majesty's obsequies, and that
decency and decorum were violated upon the occasion in
question.—(Hear, hear !)
The Marquis oeLONDONDERRY was desirous of acknow-
ledging the candid manner in which the Hon. and Learned
Member had treated the question. He only felt it necessary
to make a few remarks 111 explanation of particular points,
and before doing so, he would endeavour to put the parties
in the question upon their true footing in respect to each
other. The proposition before the House was not at all am-
biguous, because it had been cleared up by the Hon. Member
for Shrewsbury, who stated, that Ministers had been
,guilty
of a deliberate act of indignity towards the remains of her
late Majesty. And this he had aggravated by saying, that
they were morally responsible for the blood which was shed
upon that day. He bad not, indeed, gone so far as he did
the other day, when be stated his belief that his ,Majesty's
Government intended to create a massacre of the people; but
he contented hiMself with charging on them a moral respon-
sibility for the blood then shed. So apt was the Hon. Mem-
ber at making charges, that even the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman who spoke last seemed to expect some front that
quarter, as well as from his (Lord Londonderry's) side of the
House. From the latter apprehension he had great pleasure
in relieving him. He never had contemplated any charge of
impropriety of conduct against the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman; and although he differed with him upon a feW
points, he was disposed to take his speech as the defence
of the Governiuent.. It was a perfect exoneration of Mi-
nisters, and all that he had to object to was, that the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman had been rather hard
upon the undertakers. It completely defended his Noble
Friend, the First Lord of the Treasury, whom he should pre-
sently show to have acted with the most strict judgment
throughout the proceedings of the day in question. It was also
a vindication of the attendance of the military, who, as a
guard of honour, were sent in the due observance of a neces-
sary mark of respect.—(Hear !)—He wished first to pin the
House in sight of the truetondition of the parties, which the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman bad failed to do with his usual
clearness and accuracy. He seemed to think that a power
had gone out of the hands of the executors, in their not hav-
ing the direction of the funeral;. and that if every thing had
gone on as they bad wished, that they-should have retained
that direction. Now he begged leave to say, that although
that might be the law with regard to the executors of an or-
dinary individual, it was not so with those of the Royal Per-
sonage. It was a prerogative of the Crown, and the Earl of
Liverpool, although he was willing to hear every suggestion,
.and to conform as much as possible. tit the wishes of the exe-
cutors, yet he newer could contemplate their having any
power in drecting the remoral of the corpse. It appeared, in-
deed, that if Mr. Thomas bad gone to Harwich in confor-
mity to the wishes of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he
would have had nothing to complain of at all. With regard
to Mr. Thomas, he understood that he was a Gentleman in

every •ateeption of the word. lie was next in the same de,
partment to Mr. Mash, who was at the time iii Ireland, per-
forming important public services by- preparing for the festi-
vities that were to ensue. Mr. Thomas was the same Gentle-
man who conducted the latt Duke of Kent's funeral, and
every decorum and Propriety was at that time observed.
The Government having sent the funeral to Harwich under
his control, his Hon. Frieud,, the Secretary of the Lord
Chamberlain's department, then took the direction of it.—
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had expressed great sur-
prise that. Mr. Thomas produced the ceremonial as his autho-
rity at Brandenburgh House. It was only necessary for the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman to know that he was the per-
sou deputed from the Government, and it was therefore very
natural for him to produce the ceremonial in proof of that
fact. With regard to what passed between them, he should
be the last to justify wants language in, any man; but Mr.
Thomas knew that- lie had no authority to seek from
the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, and he no doubt
felt himself obstructed in the discharge of his. duty. These
observations would put the House in possession of the true 1
situation of the parties. With regard to the- conduct of his
Majesty's Government in the affair, they acted ail along in
conformity with her Majesty's desire. It was clear she
wished for no primp or parade., nor for any popular concourse
to attend her. He supposed that she had found- such sup-
port not so touch to her benefit as she had been led to ex-
pect.—(Hear !)—At least such was the appeararide from her
conduct in her last. moments.—(Hear !)—The Noble Marquis
then remarked upon the disposition evinced by Government
to hasten , thurfuneral ; but he wished it to be understood,-
that this desire of accelerating the departure of the corpse
did not originate with bis Majesty. That could not be the
case, as the dispositions were taken before any communica-
tion could have been, effected. The arrangements 'Were made
upon the particular responsibility of his Noble Friend, the
.Minister in London at that time. He could say this, because
it. happened that he was in personal attendance upon his Ma-.
jests, at the time when the intelligence of the Queen's death
arrived. fle could assure the House that the intelligence
was received, by the Illustrious Pet soilage with great feeling,
arid that every•mark of respect, such as lowering flags and
other ceremonies, were ordered by his Majesty expressly, who
did not appear on deck for a considerable time. After the
arrangements had been made, considerable inconvenience
would have been occasioned by an alteration ; and it
was therefore very properly resolved to ad-here to them.
With respect to the proposed inscription on the coffin, he
could not impute any blame to his Noble Friend for the course
he took ; hut he (the Marquis) was decidedly of opinion, that
the Hop. and Learned Gentleman had no right whatever to do
what lie bad done. This remark, however, he was not dis-
posedsto presi -unnecessarily; and he would only observe,
that his Noble Friend had informed the Hon. and Learned
Member that such an inscription would not be allowed to be
placed °Witte coffin while her Majesty's remains were. in, the
custody of the King's Officers. The Hun. and Learned Gen-
tleman was not, however, to- understand that he was to he
at full liberty to step in at any time afterwards, and, in his
character of Executor, affix. the inscription. Such an un-
derstatiding would have been a contemptible evasion on the
part of his Noble Friend, who lead merely intimated that the
proceeding could not be permitted in this thoegh he
did not anticipate the course which might be taken by others
With regard to the embarkation, it was very true that there
hart been a desire iu accelerate it at Harwich, and be believed
this had been done withki.erY,possible solemnity ; but if there
had been any inadvertaincy, any thing for which some blame
alight be attributed to an undertaker, surely this- was not a
ground of serious charge against his Majesty's Ministers.
The questonsevas, what had been the intention ?—(Hear !)
The Honourable and Learned Gentleman himself appeared to
acquit Ministers. He had panegyrised the Earl of Liverpool;
he had panegyrised Lord Melville; lie had panegyrised the
Admiralty, and indeed everyone, except the immediate officers
of the Goys.] nment. As to the rapidity with which the pro-
cession had been carried on, he could not agree, that because
it had been interrupted on the first day, the arrangements
should be altered entirely, especially as it was to be remem-
bered that the Church at Chelmsford had been fitted up for
the reception of the coffin, and the persons connected with
the town were in expectation of seeing the arrival of the pro-
cession. He How come to the heinous offence which had been
committed by Ministers, in acting against the opinion of the
Common Council of the City of London. Ministers wtre not
hound to attend to that opinion, even had the arrangements
not been made before it was expressed. Those arrangements,
however, had been so made. (Thu Noble Marquis here referred
to the offieial letter in answer to that conveying the result'
tions of the Common Council.) And these arrangements being
thus made, lie thought it was a little too much to ash that they
should be all disturbed.. He did not wish to speak disrespects
fully of-the Common Council, although he was unfortunately -
in the habit of differing from them upon public matters; but
really, when he considered the opinions they had expressed
respecting the Queen, he certainly would not go out of his
way to conform to their opinions. He had not heard of any
disposition they had shewn to pay attention to the memory of
her late Majesty Queen Charlotte; or.of their. 'wish to ca-
nonize her; and he thought it not altogether necessary that
the Queen of England should he interred under the auspices
of the Common Council of the City of London. It was some
relief to Ministers in the measures they took, to know that
they were. acting under her Majesty's own directions; for
even without them, it would have been desirable to prevent
the funeral from being made a vehicle for that cabal and fac-
tion which had disturbed her peace while living.—(Hear,
hear!)—lf the funeral -could have been conducted by water,
Ministers wished it to have been so conducted ; but the navi-
gation of the river rendered it highly inconvenient. He ad-.
twitted, however, that he preferred adhering to the spirit, as
be conceived it, of her Majesty's will, to deferring to the opi-
nion of the Common Council. On the whole, he deeplrla-
merited that the attention of the House and of the country
should have been called to a subject which had better be
blotted from remembrance. He. should always look hack
with pain to the disgraceful scenes which had taken place
during her Majesty's life; hot he wished them tube forgotten,
a wish in which he believed he was heartily joined by her late
Majesty's best friends. He could not, however, sit down
without expressing it as his opinion, that there was no day in
the history of the country more disgraceful to it than that, on
which a systematic obstruction had been offered to the exer-
tions of the legal officers,- while they were conducting the
funeral of the Queen.—(Hear, hear!)
Dr. LUSHINGTON explained. A claim to her Majesty's
body haul never been made.
Mr. HORHOUSE said he should not have oh:ruded any
observations on such a quiestion as this, but for sonic expres-
sions which had fallen from the Noble Lord, and for the man-
ner in which a Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken against
his Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Finale). They were not to
be told that they who had -espinrsed what was called the cause
of the Queen were a cabal and a faction.• A faction was only
a deperate few—a desperate portion of the people, who, fur
their own sinister views, promoted a bad and mischievous
object. They were not a faction who had declared their feel-
ings and their wishes for one who. had suffered under the
strong grasp of power, and had been the victim of the most
unjust persecution which ever assailed any sex, or disgraced
any age or nation.—(Hear.)--alf the term faction could be-
long to an enlightened people, then all the nat hal had been
factions, for all bad espoused the cause of the injured Queen'
Caroline.—(Hear, hear !)—But the term faction appeared to
be perfectly understood, and it belonged, not to the nation
at large, hut to a few intriguing, designing, base, interest-
ed persotis, who promoted their iiwn object, by doing in- •
justice,—(lond cheers,)—who rose on the ruius of a wo-
man, and that woman their Queen, their Mistress, the wife
of their Soveieign--(hear);--these were the faction, these were
the cabal. They were not a portion of the people,they were the
whole of the English. nation, who bad declared strongly on
the part of that illustrious lady, who had been truly called
in that inscription on her coffin, and who would be regarded
by posterity as, " the injured Queen of England." This
epitaph posterity would confirm, and brand with lasting in-
famy her basest, meanest persecutors -who had followed her
corpse to the grave, and who had stigmatised as a faction
those who had dune themselves honour by undertaking her
hopeless defence. He begged pardon of the House for using
warm language, but felt it called for by the terms applied
to those who had defended an unfortunate woman. The
Right Hun. Gentleman might plead res Jura, but he could
not plead regal novitas for such abusive terms.' To the credit
of the Right Hon. Gentleman he bad nut taken part in the
proceedings against her Majesty. In the one speech which
lie had made upon the subject, he had taken care not to'enter
into the general policy of the proceedings. If he had not
formerly entered into the question, he (Mr. Hohhoute) did
not see why he should have entered into it now. • The Noble
Lord had said that the Queen repented on her death-bed of the
part acted towards her by the people.—(No!)—lt was, then,
tbat she bad expressed howlittle advantageshe had derived from
the peopte,and that she hadwished for no pageantrysuch as they
had forced upon her; but the Queen had well known, the
people bad known, and that House bad known, the benefit
derived from the interference of the people.-L(Cheers.)—Lord
Liverpool had in another place stated, that the bill had been
stopped in consequence of the opinion of the people of Eng-
land in favour of the Queen. %Vas that a matter of which
the Queen could have repented ? It did not appear that the
Queen had wished the funeral to be private. " Obey the in-
junctions in the Queen's Will," was the cry when it suited
the purpose. But where bad been the attention to her Will
respecting the inscription on her coffin ? The Noble Lord
now spoke with astonishment at the executors presuming to
interfere at the funeral of a Queen,- the King's wife. That
bad not been the language used when they prosecuted her.—
(Cheers.)—No word about the King's wife could then escape

I from therm It was, however, very unfortunate that none but
a deputy's deputy could be found to nude, take the last mar-
tial office. Troops ought not to hare been sent. A lady in
.attendance on her Majesty bad entreated that they should
not, and for'etold the consequences. But it was not the guard
of honour which occasioned the unfortunate affray. The
Right Honourable Gentleman ban spoken 'of opposers, of the
law. What' law ? Was it the law of the sword ? The Riot
Act had not been-read. No law had been broken but by his
Majesty's GOvernment, who. wished to accustom the people
to military execution. It had not been done accidentally.
From the riots in St. George's-fields. there hart bettn.a syste-
matic attempt to dispense withthe civil power, and to introduce
the military on all occasions. There had been no disturbance
in the Park till the troops proceeded with drawn swords and
at a rapid pace.. The people hissed, but nn stones were then
thrown. The people had acted, not against the law, but
against Ministers, who, cm every occasion,-showed tkemselves
prodigal of the blood of the people of England. London was
in the way of the funeral. When the Noble Lard spoke of a
column formed by the people, he spoke of what was very un-
just, and very untrue. No inclination to tumult bast appear=
ed, but only when the sabres of the military seemed to revive
the scenes of Manchester.—(Hear, hear!)—He took the op-
portunity of mentioning that he had dissuaded his Gallant
Friend (Sir Robert NVilson) frOm interfering, and urged this
reason—. It isenot what yOu say or do, lint what others may.
choose to say that you say or do, which will he charged
against you." It was not then the tittle incidents that might
he named, but it was the whole arrangements-of .the funeral
which proved that due respect had not been paid to her Ma-
jesty. This the people of England believed, _ and posterity
would confirm.
Mr. PEEL explained.. He had alluded to a portion of the
populace as aistinguished train the people of -England. He
haff-not-allnded to Penchum, but to the Honourable Mem-
ber's complaint of the saving of cloth in tire apartment where
her Majesty's body lay.
Lord LONDONDERRY explained. He had not applied
the terms faction and cabal to all those who had defended the
Queen.
. .
Mr. HOBHOLISE- explained, that Peachum and Lockiii
had been referred to by the Honourable and Gallant General
on the floor. •
Colonel CAVENDISH said the-soldiers were pelted as soon
as they appeared. The Officer commanding had said, that on
no occasion, when he 'had assisted the civil power, had he
seen such ill treatment. His Honourable Friend, the Mem-
ber for Southwark, had, by his distinguished conduct, become
an ornament to his profession,. but he had stated that the
Life Guards had exhibited the appearance of cavalry when
repulsed in a charge. The conduct of the Life Guards had
never been spoken of but with approbation and applause.—
(Cheers.)—The return-which he held in his hand showed that
nine of the Guards had been in time hospital the day after the
unfortunate affray. They had heenseveral days rendered un-
fit for duty. One had had his shoulder blade fractured, and
had since been discharged. (Hear, hear, hear !)—His
Honourable Friend would not deny that soldiers, what-
ever might be the distinction of civil and military
duty, had a right, when attacked, to defend themselves.
Sir ISAAC COFFIN said he thought it was highly discre-
ditable on all occasions to rake up the ashes of the dead.
Mr. W. LAMB said he had not on any occasion wished to
use any opprobrium towards the people. He never attended
to any distinction of dress; he confined himself to noticing
that of conduct.—(Hear, hear.)—Keeping this distinction
alone in view, he would say, that those who committed the
outrage of obstructing the Queen's funeral ought not to be
called the people of England. He did not approve of the
conduct of Ministers. He thought it would have been better
had they complied with the reasonable wishes of the people.
He (Mr. Lamb) had confidence in them ; he admired time for-
bearance they had shown upon many occasions, and express.-
ly ou those when inflammatory speeches were made to them,
though these always concluded with the recommendation to
preserve the peace.—(Hear, hear,- hear.)—The Honourable
Member for Shrewsbury bad'expressed his surprise that time
late Queen had survived so long; but it she had really fallen
a victim to suffering, it was, in his (Mr. Lamb's) opinion,
very questionable whether that suffering had not been occa-
sioned by her exposure to unrestrained violence. He disap-
proved of the conduct of Ministers, but he thought their
error was one of judgment.
Mr. DENMAN said, that nothing could he more absurd
the conduct of Government in interfering with the
course of the funeral procession. It was well known that the
feelings of the people of the city of London had been utmost
warmly interested for her Majesty, and what objection there
could be to permitting these feelings to find a proper.vent lie
was at a loss to know. He contended that the conduct of Sir
Robert Baker iii altering time course of the procession, when
he found it 'could not proceed without bloodshed, deserved
praise and thanks, instead of being censured and cashier-
ed. As to time degree of respect and solemnity atttend-
ing the funeral, lie must say that what be had heat d
that night had made a great impression on. his mind. When
he saw the officer of the Lord Chamberlain attending-7--
when he saw the officer of the Guards drawing. out the
troops to do honour to the solemnity—when he saw
the Admiralty giving orders for vessels to attend—and when
he found the Noble Lord declaring that even the illustrious
husband had received the news of her Majesty's death with
feelings which did him honour—and that every external de-
monstration was made which the occasion demanded, he must
pause ere he agreed to the terms of time motion. Though
some of the details were not perhaps exempt from blame, yet
he thought as to many pet sons of honour had borne testimony
to the orders given (and betook it for granted they were obey-
ed), that the charges against Government in that respect
were in a great measure removed. He thought it was not
for his Majesty's Ministers to talk of disturbing the ashes of
the dead, though it might be suitable to the Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Peel) who had thought fit to join a Ministry,
who found, on the accession of their Sovereign, the king-
'dom.in the most profound tranquillity,' and had
.continued
to make it the most troubled and stigmatized era of any
which cursed the annals of our country.
Mr. BENNET said he should not divide the House.—The
Motion was then put and negatived.
Mr. BERNAL asked a question respecting the Russian Ta-
riff, and was answered by the Marquis of LONDONDERRY; but
the noise was too great fur us to hear either the question or
the answer distinctly.

ARMY ESTIMATES.
On the order of the day being read for the House going into
a Committee on the Army Estimates—
. Colonel Davies, Lord Palmerston, Mr. Bernal, and the Mar-
quis of Londonderry, said a few words across the table on the
propriety of postponing their consideration.
Lord STANLEY asked, whether there was any truth in the
rumour that had gone abroad of its being the intention to re-
duce the half-pay of the Army and Navy ?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY assured the Noble
Lord that he knew of no such intention on the part of his Ma-
jesty's Ministers • but he did not know if the report had arisen
from any thing which had dropped from the lion, Member for
Montrose.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
Lord STANLEY believed it arose from something said by
a Noble. Lord in another place.
Mr. HUME hoped the Noble Lord (Palmerston) would not
press on the Army Estimates in the exhausted state of the
House.
After a few words from Mr. BERNAL and Mr. HvsxissoN,
the Houie divided on the question for going into a Comthittee,
when there appeared—
Ayes -.- - - 116 -
Noes - - - - - 28.

Majority - - - - —BB
The House again divided on the question, that the Speaker
do leave the Chair._ The numbers were—

For the Motion - - -
Against it - -
Majority - - -
The House then went into a Committee.

- 118

.. -97

On our return to the Gallery we found Mr. HUME contend-
ing against the propriety of going into the estimates at that late
hour. Gentlemen on his side of the House did not wish to stop
the public business, but after a debate of seven hours, he thought
they should not enter into so complicated a question as the esti.
mates before them. The lion. Member then commented on
the various items in the estimates, and pointed out the re-
ductions that should be made. Six thousand pounds were
proposed for the mess of the guards, while for every other regi-
ment no more that 2501. were voted. The bill of fare for the
guards was a curious one ; breakfast two different -times,
rolls, muffins, coffee, &c. dinner daily for 16, he believed it
was now reduced to. 13 ; the best fish' in the London market,
two courses; four dishes of roasted poultry in the 2d course;
wines, port, claret, and madeira, without limit, and it was for
that extravagance the House voted away the public money.
He thought that item might be reduced one-half, still leav-
ing a sufficient allowance of 3,0001. The next item was
4,8001. for a Board of General Officers to decide upon
claims in the time of wai; that he should reduce to 2,500 L
The next was the allowances of Captains and officers of the
'guards, in lieu of what they received from outlayers. That
amounted to 8,5151. which he proposed should be done
away lwith altogether. Three thousand pounds was annually
voted for printing the army list, although there were 'many
booksellers who would be glad to purchase it without any ex-
pense to the country. The Hon. Gentleman was then pro-
ceeding through the various items, when there was a general
cry of" Adjourn !"

Mr. HUYIE then moved that the Chairman do report pro.
gress, and get leave to sit again.
Lord PALMERSTON said, it was an old and an equitable
maxim, AUDI ALTERAM PARTEM, and he should there-