The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-13 00:00:00

P'

11r1

Which
the latter, was in many cases a compromise, in
ofel
.h the interests of the parties prevailed, and the interests
ins tcu9 public were very rarely considered. The proceed-
%ag; before that tribunal were very expensive—enormously
le to every day they were increasing.—( Hear.) It was
thepublic to put an end to those expensive proceedings.
ar(..eHear, hear, hear.) No later than that morning certain
' s interested in the progress of a Railroad Bill had been
with himaas
, and one of them told him he had to pay before he
t called vas peCarn.itted to take a single step, the sum of 500/. for what
" a list of the assents and dissents." While the
blei 'liad informed him that for the same thing he expected to
It called or, for three times as much in as many days hence.
4;62' now the practice to obtain the consent not alone of pro-
LutTrs but of lodgers on any estate to be affected by the line,
thr nstrelny cases that of the former was dispensed with, while
tl. 0.1 the latter who had no real interest in the estate served
he lsell a list in approbation. This had a delusive effect on
peas_Public, as well as a destructive effect, for it gave an ap-
av`aance of feasibility to projects which were by no means of a
se 1. ntable nature, and substituted the names of persons pos-
thsoB2ng not particle of valuable interest in a property for
es,be of the actual bona fide owners of it. All this was cal-
nsul,aeted to deceive and injure the community at large, as well
venalstroa
the
J e property and prospects of individuals. The at-
ven of House of Commons had during the last and se-
tietita:ttgercoef.dina- sessions been very liberally devoted to the fa-
suCh speculative enterprises, and he predicted that
same very decided step, such as now proposed, were
had hi to controul and regulate the very tolerant spirit which
an hitherto guided their fegislation, the result would be that
Ts House would become-not a House of Parliament, but a
itt'..°tl,se of Railroads--( Hear, hear, hear)—and every Gentle-
en° a spare time would be exclusively occupied in attending
nunittees to promote their extension over the empire.—
(Heat, hear.) It was under these circumstances, and with this
totla
iction of his duty to the unprotected public, and to the Le-
gislature_ in which he had the honour to hold a seat, that he
'" Proposed the formation of the Select Committee, with the
powers and duties specified in his motion.
eo h W. CRA WFORD said some of the schemes alluded
ad fallen under his observation, and he could speak from
tpesience of the evils and inconveniences likely to arise from
e mania for railroad speculations which now possessed the
cosi-dry. He concurred with the Hon. Mover that it was ab-
ckisisillelY requisite to apply some legislative check to these pro-
sarne's, which threatened to sacrifice such an amount of
proaeate vie in the reckless rivalry of public companies, espe-
tQ'Ty in thenity of London. The county. of Surrey seemed
enteicie especially marked out as a scene of visitation for the exe-
ssa n of such speculative projects, and had actually been
and. partitioned amongst three principal engineers, in
flan
distinct shares, for their own profit, and for the do-
ts-i1k:4.0,f the public. There.were now no less than three
niatkos in preparation to Brighton ; and could any sensible
to exl:set that they could all succeed, even if the projec-
r 1.8 iatensted to work them? One was called Stephenson's
Co' condueted along the vale of Wickham and Wimbledon
oa"'s
NI cm, extending ,circuitously through the most bea .
I Part of the country, and along the banks of the rivers
tlttld streams, on the plea of the necessity of preserving
the lesvels. A second ran in another direction through
thirdcualk hills, -cutting up that part of the country ; a
(1,. railroad was already half made, running by Brighton
s'e south to Dover. The originators of these clashing
att°leets cared nothing for the inevitable failure that would
-neetue to one or more in their practical working, and the
t.cfeeltilae tition that would ensue if their plans were ever Ca-
saLluto effect. Armed with the deposits of the first sub-
karets,.to the amount of 15,000/. or 30,000/., the solicitors
pead.ugmeers recklessly pursued their separate course of ex-
Pleas driving lines through the country wherever they
iste„aseed, heedless of the injury to private prop.erty, or the
raa-I,Lerence with public comfort and convenience, which
eta; reissue in the accomplishment of their schemes. With
the-a","lnds at their command, and such powers to expend
es,: uncontrolled for the furtherance of their plans, how-
iscih".leetionable it was not to be wondered at if private
sie'vmals were deterred from making any attempt at oppo-
ion
to aa and, in fact, unless-the Legislature turned its attention
the adoption of some effective measures for their controul,
attempt would be altogether hopeless, and the injury of
car;at,e property might be expected to continue in a pro-
Iss-Pte ratio.—( Hear.) On the Southampton line, the
esv 'a were recently, stopped below Basingstoke, from a dis-
le: eel? lately made of the difficulty of preserving the requisite
he
the line first adopted. With reference to this
ton',4o could have wished that his Hon. Friend's mo-
te "ad embraced all railroads within ten miles, instead of
eesaeen, ofthe metropolis, as this would let in the Southampton
' though, as the motion stood limited at present, it was
haveessarily excluded. However, as far as it went, it would
Ala, from
beneficial effect of preventing much valuable pro-
Ala,. 'tom the lamentable effects of an extravagant mania
ths--".would, doubtless, involve and ruin multitudes, while
tta-itenginal plotters would, most probably, escape with the
los,a of their successful imposition on the unwary and. credu-
sth The machinery was well known to the initiated. by
nt, ! b railway shares were worked up to a nominal premium
,otzwelae
„ per cent. before the slightest rational prospect of a
and Presented itself for calculation to found any data on.;
eiti-al.t was also well known to men of. observation that the ori-
shart°rs of these bubbles never continue
can
no hold their original
be seized on, sell
the eB, but as soon as a sufficient profit
rn to the dupes whom they leave to sufferc. by the ultimate
"%tin
gof the bubble. .No of experience would take the
Petits of shares quoted the papers as any proof of the pros-
as 411 or soundness of a company started und.er such auspices
-tat'ae which marked the origin of these railway companies ;
pcitlia';'e contrary, the more he heard of this unsubstantial prt;T-
-rI!o - tithe more he felt the necessity of protecting the public
'4l dptious and fallacious hopes held out to them by
Interested individuals.
Mr. R. COLBORNE thought it was the duty of the House
Principle
be exceedingly cautious in the adoption of any restrictive
14inciple of legislation which might have the effect of interfering
with the many obvious admitted and indisputable benefits which
railways were calculated to ensure, looking to them either to
the extension of internal commerce or as a means of facilitating
Intercourse, which did not hitherto exist, and thus diffusing im-
provements and the spirit of industry and enterprise. He was
Certain that they were beneficial in one very desirable point of
view, as affording a means of employment to the labouring
classes, and a happy stimulus to the improvement of their con-
dition. Many of the projected undertakings were, he was sorry
to say, speculations of a very questionable character, and he
'unlisted whether they would ever advance a step in the lines
they had adopted and set forth in their prospective publica-
sns• Ile thought the best way to counteract this species of
Peculation was to enact a clause which should render it
tvre.Perative on the original promoters of a railway scheme to
aseUtin their shares and prosecute the work. If shares were
"'iv transferable by law persons would not undertake such
woo.. .
ate - without the intention of carrying them on, and much
e,k-jobbing mischief would thereby be prevented. Were
a",e" a law in existence we should not see such an enormous,
lens,-Q and absurd expenditure of money as we now witnessed
Aaa ,es of railroads running side by side, cutting up and clis-
sia°l;ng the country, and evidently constructed without the
efsLest intention on the part of the original undertakers to
utilit"ulPlete
them, or if completed eventually with any hope of
Yto the public. He would, however, be quite content. to
kir the free employment of capital in this department
compelledofm-
conlY, if the original promoters of each were to
Sirthe R.
PEEL said he could not sec the advantage which
Nit saPporters of the resolution expected to derive from it,
to Pared with the previous system, which it was now sought
lin 3uPersede. If it were a necessary consequence that all
.airs of railroads struck out were to go on, and that all Bills
antquced were to be carried through that House, it would
re, d°uht occasion very dangerous results ; but it should be
serellected that each Bill presented to Parliament must be
aratilt,i,.ula,!d and substantiated in detail before a Committee,
rile,'" approved, subjected to the further censorship of Parlia-
ea t, ere the evil consequences could result to the country
all, Which so much stress had been laid, but which, after
tr Zany rested with the whole House to permit or restrain.
laenVorrnation of a Select Committee were requisite and
vo 8-:e'al for the district situate within seven miles of London,
Project the property it contained from the ruin which railway
Aliteeetors were expected to inflict, he saw no reason why
esetltichester, Birmingham, Liverpool, and all the other threat-
s!, „aitlan'os and districts containing similarly valuable property
ta°-'" not be granted an equal measure of select Parliamen-
andProtection.—( Hear.) If a Select Committee were good
nha necessary for one case it might be expected to be good
114, necessary for all ; but this equally legitimate conclusion
roan not urged in supporting the motion. The Hon. Gentle-
and ,t."'fined his attention to the vicinity of the metropolis,
p' stet aPPeared expects shortly to see a railroad drive from
take square to the House of Commons ! But he does not
metro consideration a condition attaching to property in the
P°lis, which vi ill effectually protect it against any dis-
til, ance that is not likely to have a profitable termination—
tntureat value of the houses and land, of which the speculators
Tito Purchase possession ere they can commence operations.
Ril inevitable expense of such proceedings in the metropolis
kindi e its best security against uncalled for intrusions of the
wits aPpraheaded, and Gentlemen might rest assured that there
raii.cia wide and natural distinction between the origination of a
amr.ad project in or through any district of the metropolis
the
ele completion. He thought that the plan of entrusting to
tailr et Committee the choice of one out of the lines of
leeti` °ld would lead to no good purpose, for the individuals se-
Nene: could have no more intuitive knowledge of " the desire-
deea of a rail-road " than the house at large, with whom the
sion Would lie in the present state of the case, after the
lavesintnittee had enlightened them on all the needful partieu-
s t,° enable them to form a proper judgment. He could not
ee
issue in dvantage, where a great national undertaking was at
eye,' ,limiting its consideration to a few individuals, how-
ssetected, who are expected to decide " whether the best
et: had been selected, having regard to the directness of the
alicajnunication, the probable expenditure, the comfort and
eerj.of the public, the effect on priarste property and parti-
f'ss interests." There was really little to fear in those cases,
/arilo railroad project could come into operation till the ma-
raj of Parliament had declared that its principles and ar-
kKotetrne-ots appeared to them satisfactory, and its investments
cipt. He held it to be a recognized Parliamentary prin-
ii,ae,, in these cases, that the probable profits of an undeitak-
,4e should be shown to be sufficient to maintain it in a state
ia,P,e,rrnanent action and utility—(Hear)—and he Weight that
pireTossis were perfectly justified in expecting and demanding
pro" a warranty from Parliament before they transferred their
Pap; to any such uses.—(Heay.) And why should not
its 'lament require it from those who came fete and to obtain
tieaauthority to sanction their appropriatioo of this peoposSa"
e, .r) With respect to the consent of proprietors, which was
eel-dilute in such cases, he thought the House would not
fide °lug its duty if it did not exact the produe4on of bona
Ito, article subscribed by real proprietors or tenants. It wes
tu,a` enough to see a document signed by 1,000 tenants if it
'n out that 999 of these were weekly tenants or tenantg

•c.

i~

will.—( Hear, hear.) He felt that Parliament ought in all
such cases to ascertain the validity and condition of proprietor-
ships, ere it admitted the effect of such consent.—( Hear, hear.)
With respoct to the individual projects, he was sorry to see
that some presented the obvious characters of futile specula-
tions, but he would be equally sorry to see powers delegated
to a limited •and select Committee to decide on subjects of
skill, science, and enterprise, where so much was at stake,
and thereby prejudge the question• He would rather see the
matter left to the good sense and comprehensive intelligence
of the entire House.
Mr. PE ASE said that it was his lot to live in a county
where railroads were more numerous and their effects better
known and appreciated than in any other, and where, as the
result of all this experience, as soon as a project for a new
line of railroad appeared, it was almost universally adopted
and approved of. The idea formerly prevalent there, as well
as here, that railroads cut up and disfigured the country, had
entirely given way, for it was now found that all the great
cuttings and sinkings might, by a little care and expense in
ornamental plantings of the slopes and edges, be rendered
subjects of advantage in the points of scenery of a district, in-
stead of the reverse. He was aware from his own experience
as a landowner, that the ground through which a railroad
passes increases instead of deteriorates in value, notwithstand-
ing the particular portions of which he spoke were intersected
by cuttings of great depth ; in spite of which some of it sold
recently brought a higher price than it did before, or than
any land at a distance from the railway would bring, though
adjacent to turnpike roads. All building materials and mine-
rals lying in lands adjacent to a railroad were materially in-
creased in value, and in cases where it became necessary to
determine the value of such land by a Jury, double the value
was frequently given, compared with what would have been
awarded by the same Jury, or determined by private bargain,
before the establishment of the railroad. The turnpike roads
in the neighbourhood had become perceptibly better, and had
reduced their tolls fifty per cent., from the absence of heavy
and injurious carriages, which are now transferred to the rail-
way. With the experience of ten or twelve years, the feeling
of the country had considerably increased in favour of rail-
roads. Within the last three sessions especially, the question
had undergone a searching scrutiny, and been fully canvassed
by engineers and the public. He had attended very closely
to the subject himself, and while he had been more thoroughly
convinced of the utility which might be derived from the adop-
tion of judicious plans, he must confess he was disgusted by
several which had been presented to the public, which obviously
contained the elements of failure, disappointment, and ruin.
He trusted, however, that the House would discriminate be-
tween the plans submitted to it, and not suffer rival projects
to destroy one another, and to absorb the property of son-
fiding individuals whom they would be unable to repay. He
thought that some speculations of this species deserved to fail ;
but he did not like to see a Select Committee, composed of
individuals who were, perhaps, by no means competent to enter
fully into the merits of a plan, erected, as it were, into a tri-
bunal of opinion, whose fiat would, notwithstanding, go far to
prejudice the decision of the last tribunal—the House. A chief
objection to the introduction of the metropolitan lines was, that
they would take the trade of the great interests already in pos-
session of it. He would suggest, as a remedy for this, that
instead of having once focus in the north, or south, or east, or
west, there should be a distribution of stations and advantages—
one in each of these four points of the City—which would go
far to remedy the inconvenience apprehended. He must oppose
the motion before the House, as he preferred the existing mode
of proceeding, which left so much more to the discretion of the
House at large, with an opportunity of obtaining all the infor-
mation a Committee could elicit, to enable it to form a just
conclusion ; and if a Committee agreed in approbation of a
plan submitted to it, a prima facie is thereby established for
the House, that it is a good one.
Mr. G OULBURN said he must concur with the Hon.
Member for Southwark in his view of the advantages of a
Select Committee. The approbation of the Committee which

trusted the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would not press his
motion.
Mr. HUME would wish to be informed whether there was
any objection to the formation of a Board ? It would in his
opinion be preferable to a Committee, which it might not be
possible for Members to attend regularly. That very day, he
was appointed to no less than nine County Committees? How
was it possible that he could attend them all ? Why not
draft the whole House into Committees, consisting of eleven
each ?—(Hear, hear.) He could not admit the principle
usually acted upon, that the Members of the county or the bo-
rough supposed to be the most interested in any inquiry, were
the fittest to be Members of the Committee. Quite the con-
trary—they were most likely to be influenced by b:nal 'or Per-
sonal considerations.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said he always observed that when
the House had been engaged upon any stirring subject like
the Orange question it was difficult to draw their attention,
to one of a more private nature. He did not propose that
there should be only one entrance by railroad into London.
What he said was that there should be only one locality
within the metropolis for each line, from east, west,
north, and south. It was said that the same course of
inquiry should be extended to all large towns as he had
proposed for the metropolis. This did not at all follow.
In all other large towns the whole of the circumstances were
fully known beforehand, and all the reasons for and against
any particular course were discussed and ascertained before
the project was commenced. but 'the speculators in London
had, perhaps, not the least connection with those towns with
which the line of road communicated. All he proposed
was that a Committee should have before them the whole case.
If the inquiry of Committees were not delayed, as was now
the practice, by Counsel running from one Committee to
another and making long speeches, or asking for adjournment
because they were not prepared, or because junior Counsel
made some mistakes, business would be done far more speedily,
and better done too. If a Committee consisting of a small
number had the whole project before them they could very
readily determine whether a railroad was required in any par-
ticular line, or whether one line was preferable to another.
His Hon. Friend (Mr. Warburton) suggested that no share-
holder should be a Member of the Committee. But were
there no parties interested in such speculations but share-
holders? Were there no bankers, no proprietors of'
iron mines ; were there no owners of great lumps of land,
having a number of bad tottering houses upon them ? Great
addition might suddenly be made to the value of such property
by the project of a railroad. It was quite natural, it was
the usual course, that strong objections should be -at first
started against the project by the great landholders, but, some-
how or other, these objections soon disappeared. When once
the great Lord or the extensive landowner was bought over by
some means or other, the objections to the, line of road were
heard of no more, and the minor parties opposed to the Bill
were left to struggle for themselves. A Member of a Com-
mittee may not be a shareholder himself, but he might at the
same time be deeply interested. He might have a son or a
daughter, a nephew, a mother, or a grandmother, who held
shares. What difference was there whether held by himself
or his relations and friends ? The mode of crying up any
project of this kind at present was, to point out a list of sub-
scribers and say, " Oh, here arc no less than ten M. P.'s. It
is certain to be carried. It cannot fail." On the other side,
perhaps, it is said, the Attorney- General is against it, he will
canvass Brookes's. It cannot pass. If any Members of the
Committee have an individual interest let it be known, let the
man stand naked before the Committee.—(A laugh.) Some-
thing should be done to protect the public.
The motion was then withdrawn.
Mr. HUME postponed the motion of which he bad given
notice, for certain returns relative to the assessed taxes, as the
Noble Lord the Secretary for the Home Department had a
measure to brine. forward of more importance. His (Mr.
Hume's) would do on another day.—( Hear, hear.)
REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS, DEATHS, AND
MARRIAGES.

..
the Hon. Member who spoke last referred to was not a case
Lord J. RUSSELL then rose for the purpose of moving
strictly applicable, for a single railroad case presented to an
for leave to bring in a Bill for the purpose of effecting a gene-
ordinary Committee could not exercise the comparative view ~al registration of all births, deaths, and marriages, and a Bill
desired in the present case, and which if they did not enter on
to amend the laws relating to the celebration of marriages.
the task in a prejudiced manner, would be so beneficial to all
It would be in the recollection of the House that when the
concerned. His great anxiety was to avoid having the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir R. Peel) last year
country
,parcelled out uselessly and injuriously by rival corn-
brought forward a measure for the purpose of regulating
panics, who would inevitably entail ruin on the mass of those
the taw with reference to the marriages of Dissenters, he
who invested their property in these undertakings. If the
(Lord John Russell) had on that occasion said that he
House, or a Select Committee, were to exercise this corn-
had in the previous year (1834) declared it as his opi-
parative judgment, and choose one out of the three lines in
nion that any measure which had for its object the regu-
question as alone worthy of adoption, it would confer a great
lation of the law in question in such a mannr as to afford
benefit on the public. If, on the contrary, each Bill were, as
usual, allowed to go to the second or third reading before an relief. to the Dissenters,.. must be preceded by a Bill pro-
intentional comparison were made, he thought the House vidine a mode of civil registration, as opposed to the pre-
would stand a bad chance of making a correct choice at the sent 6practice of registering ihrouel the medium of the
moment.—( Hear. ) Church ; but that he .( Lord John Russell) had not then or
since brought for Ward any plan on the subject with that object
Mr C. P. THOMPSON agreed with the Hon. Baronet, in view, because the Government of that day considered that
that no reason existed for appointing a Committee to consider any proposition which could then be made must, if carried into
the comparative merits of railroads to other parts of the king- effect, entail upon the State the necessity for an expense the
dom, and was unwilling to delegate any powers to a Committee extent of which would present an insurmountable barrier to
to interfere with railroads in the vicinity of the metropolis the adoption of the plan. The obstacle, then, was not the
which might eventually extend to all parts of the country. principle, which he had just referred to—it was not said that a
He acknowledged that legislation on these matters was full of measure of the kind should not at some time or other be broup,ht
difficulty, and that it would be most desirable the usual Corn- forward—but it was deferred until there should be a probability
mittees should in their Reports bring forward sufficient grounds of its being put in practice in a less expensive manner than.the
to enable the House to arrive at a proper judgment of the means then existing would have allowed.—( Hear.) His
merits of each. He was aware that the opinions of Hon. ( Lord John Russell's) own-opinion certainly was, that, looking
Members expressed on these Bills at a vote of the House were at the subject in a general and national point of view, it was
frequently grounded on a personal canvass of others, instead most desirable that a civil registration should be established.
of their own individual knowledge, and confessed that he him-
—( Hear.) It was most important, as well for the purposes
self had often. considerable difficulty when called on to vote of succession to property as for the purposes of the State, which
occasionally on such questions, when he had no adequate op- frequently required a correct account of the state of the popu-
portunity of forming an opinion, and in consequence he fre- lation, that there should be a perfect register of all births,
quently declined to vote. Would it be possible for a Corn- marriages, and deaths, in the kingdom. The present register
mittee to do without assistance all that was proposed? There was decidedly deficient in its details. It had been shown to
was a Commission now in town of persons interested in rail- be so before many Committees of that House; it gave a register
roads, with the view of •making inquiry upon this subject. He not of births, which was the thing required, but of baptisms,
saw no means of avoiding the difficulties that presented them- and in respect of marriages the register was filled with the
selves except by the appointment of a Commission of engi- names of Dissenters, as well as those of members of the
neers. He was friendly to the extension of railroads, and was Church, by the former being absolutely compelled to partake
therefore anxious that no impediment sho;ild be thrown in in the ceremony of the communion, to which many of them on
their way. There was, however, three or four recently sug- principle objected. These principle reasons, not to enter into
gested so ridiculous, as to be unworthy of notice; some start- details, were sufficient with him ( Lord J. Russell) to bring
ing from the same place, and in directions where no coach was him to the conclusion that the defects in the registration arose
ever known to have run, Such projects may be beneficial to from that act being performed through the medium of the
engineers, attorneys, and to the projectors themselves; but Ecclesiastical Establishment, instead of by means of the civil
power. It was on this principle that the Bills which he was
must ultimately turn out failures. He admitted that something
ought to be done ; but did not approve of the plan proposed about to propose for the consideration of the House were
by the Hon. Gentleman ( Mr, Harvey). grounded, and lie would therefore at once proceed to a state-
Mr. YOUNG did not think the motion had been fairly ment of their proposed enactments, leaving that which affected
dealt with. Railroads and turnpike roads had been placed in the marriages of Dissenters until after he had disposed of the
invidious comparison. He understood the mover to say that others. With respect to the subject of the registration of births,
he anticipated benefit from railroads; but not from such pro- marriages, and deaths, he would observe that essentially it had
jects as could only injure the projectors as well as private pro- no immediate connection with the religious creed or creeds
perty. There could be no worse tribunal than a Committee of the persons whom it affected, and that in a country like
of that House as they were generally constituted. The utmost this, the people of which were divided as regards their reii.
scope ought to be allowed to all private enterprise, so far as it gious creed, a register kept by the Church only must be far
was consistent with law. He would admit, at the same time, from being complete. He need hardly refer to the case of the,,
that it was their duty to inquire, when any new project of this Baptists, who objected on principle to the practice of infant
kind had been started, what was likely to be the amount of in- baptism, in illustration of this position. This being the case,
jury or benefit. The practice was now to nominate from 70 to he certainly thought it absolutely necessary, if a correct ac-
-100 on Committees. Few attended, and sometimes Members count of the ages, and other particulars of necessary eireuMs
voted who heard no part of the evidence. A Select Corn- stances relating to the subject, were required, and if, therefore,
mittee was preferable. They would feel themselves bound to a complete register was required to be formed, that such re-
attend to the real merits of a Bill. ;inter should be perfectly independent and impartial, as re_
Mr. O'CONNELL was glad, whatever might be the result gariled all churches and all sects. The only question, there.
of the debate, that the question had been brought before the fore, with him was, as to the plan on which the desired object
House. See and expeditious travelling, upon moderate was to ho carried into effect. The mode pursued during the
terms, must be a great advantage, by opening an easy inter- Commonwealth, who% there was a civil register in each parish, i
course between many parts of the country. There ought to was, that a registrar was elected in each parish by the nhabi-
be some mode of checking speculations likely to prove in- tants, who was to serve for a year and a day ; but that plan was
jurious ; but, generally speaking, the interest of the par- afterwards abandoned, and has not been since revived. Another
ties would be found a sufficient check. He concurred plan was one proposed two years ago by Mr. W. Brougham,
in the suggestion of the Right Honourable Gentleman then Member for Southwark, the effect of which was, that the
(M. P. Thomson), that it would be desirable to have a Go- surveyors of taxes should have the keeping of the registers.
vernment surveyor. If the report of such an officer wag re- He (Lord John Russell), however, in endeavouring, by corn_
quired to be on the table of the House before any Bill for a munication with the proper officers, and particularly with Mr,
railroad was.brought in, it would tend greatly to put a stop Wood, in the Tax Office, had ascertained, that although the
to the mania, as it has been called. He hoped nothing would surveyors of taxes would be fully competent to undertake the
be done that could interfere with increasing the facilities of task, yet that the collectors could by no means be so well re-
communication. He saw no reason why a Select Com- lied oa, and that it would, therefore, be necessary, for the
mittee should he preferable to any other, No answer was purposes of the machinery of the proposed• plan, to employ
yet given to the observations of the Right Hon. Member for a superior class of men, who would, of necessity, require
Tamworth. higher remuneration, the whole being carried into effect at
Mr. WARBURTON thought it desirable to have a ge- an expense so great as to render the plan ineligible. It
neral survey of all railroads before Parliament gave consent had therefore been deemed unwise to make use of the sug-
to the third reading of any Bill. The further progress of all gestions which the last-mentioned proposition comprised ; but
railroads ought to be stopped till there was a general map of within the last year or two a change had been effected in the
them prepared, and the opinion of a Committee had upon it. system of the administration of the Poor Laws, which at last
About the time when he first entered Parliament, when there seemed to open the way for the adoption of a plan of correct
were so many ruinous projects started, lie moved for the ap- and systematic registration at a less expense than would have
poiiatment of the Aringa Committee. Ile trusted that in fu- attended all the others proposed. The machinery of the now
tore no Member would deem it right to vote in any Com- Poor Law Bill afforded the means of effecting the object so
mittee appointed to inquire into a speculation in which he had much desired. Under the arrangement at present existing,
an interest. there were about 228 unions in England and Wales, compri-
Mr. BA RING WALL suggested that it would be de- sing 2,233,000 persons; and, when the whole country had
sirable to have an engineer appointed under Mr. Drinkwatcr been brought under the operation of the system (and Assistant-
to report upon any railroad before it should obtain the sane- Commissioners had been appointed for that purpose, who were
tion of Parliament. expected to effect the object by April, 1837), there would be
Mr. H LIME said there were difficulties in every view of at least 803 unions throughout the kingdom, comprising the
the case, but what he dreaded most was the suggestion of the whole of the population. • Here was a machinery which might
Hon. Member who spoke last. If this suggestion were to be easily be made available for the purposes of the new Bill. In
acted upon as regarded railroads, why not follow the same each union there was an officer called the relieving officer,
rule in every other speculation ? The most effectual check whose functions applied to about 5,000 persons (the whole dis---•
would be so see that the money subscribed was really paid up. tract containing from 15,000 to 20,000), as well as an auditor,
This would soon put an end to some railroads. He saw no and a clerk to the Board of Guardians. Now the present pro-
objection to having two railroads running to the same place, position was, that the Poor Law Commissioners should have
if it should appear beneficial ; to Brighton, for instance. He the power of appointing either the relieving officer, or some
heard no answer as yet to the observations of the Right Hon. other, as the registrar for a Gerictin nttillher of Ila Fishes, he
Baronet ( Sir R. Peel.) He entertained no doubt that a being under the authority of another officer (either an auditor
Committee of eleVen or twelve would be the best, They or the clerk to the Board of Guardians), to be palled the su-
would attend more to the subject, and decide properly, unicis perintOndill4 registr?r of the district,— ( Hear,) It was also
perhaps in some cues where there might be a pressure from proposed that there should be at the teentrel-olece in London
without. another superintending registrar, to have authority during
Mr. W. W. W YNN was disposed to oniltriiir is the obser- the five years of the operation of the Poor Law Act, and to be
v:tions that the best security which could be provided was the itrApr the direction of the Commissioners. It was further
view of parties as to their own interests. There was besides proposed that et the ead of eyerY tifq inntlillq thp yeai;tpare in
this the protection of the landowners with whose property the the parishes should send to the office of tlie county or super-
line of road might interfere. Where there were conflicting intending registrar a certified copy of all the entries in the re-
lines of road to the same place ft ought, perhaps, to he made gister during that period, where, also, the books filled would
a subject of special inquiry. It would be advisable that tie depositnil, alid prftertvardq ft41191:4e4 to the f_leutrßl gfAne,
honcetorward no new line of road should meet with the con- in London, which would thus contain entries or the whole of
eurreneo of Parliament until the whole Inlderwent inquiry be- the entries during each year. The next point was as to the
fore a Committer. manner in which the registration should be effected. In this
Mr. SCA R LETT thought it highly desirable, that 4 UP: rePe4 the Bill now about. to be proposed would not be fonnd
neral plan of all the railroads should be before the House, to to tfiffirfriarerially from that intrddubed by Mr. 'W. iirOughini.
direct their judgment. Some more extensive machinery than It was proposed that in the case of a birth notice should be
that etme peepeged would be required, to assist in the inquiry. immediately, or within eight days of the birth, given by the
It would be too great a borthea 0 tl< Committee to have occupier of the house in which it might take place to the re-
three or four lines of road to inquire into ili the Sar;i6 time, 1,0404, Woe, je tii gr, if; d4i,-, yipiii4 „4il 0.1! Op cAtii9r of
Lord J. RU SSE LLehought he could not agree to the plan. mother, or on the occupier of to house, for' the particulars of
he ;744 rem!Y to acknowledge that an obligation was concerned the name of the child, and the other matters necessary, for the
on the 11;;;se 6+.(1 14 P 0457
hv bringing it forward. In cases- purposes of the registration ; and should any alteration be
where two lines of road we're pleipesiea to 1;,4c ,i.„...ii.,.place,it subsequently made in the proposed name of the child. then that
would be a very fit subject for the consideration oreeterne 1 necertitieiteeot: the baptisni slroutd oe #rst optaineu; for wtilth a
,
mittop, that they might be able to report the various circum- j fee must be paid to thMinliter, h}nci ohe'bf iesellbree eti the
.44c-e.a to pnble the House to form a correct kiemeet. He registrar. With respect to the registration of deaths, the mode
--1

proposed for adoption was very similar, the difference being
that the registrar, having received notice from the occupier of
the house in which the death has taken place, must call in the
next of kin, or on the occupier, for the necessary information
as to the age, country, and occupation of the deceased, or
whatever other particulars might be required. So much for
the registration of births and deaths. That of marriages
would snore properly be mentioned when he (Lord J. Russell)
came to the introduction of the Bill on that subject. There
could be no doubt of the extreme difficulty which would at
first impede the practical operation of a measure so extensive
in its details ar the present ; but lie (Lord John Russell) con-
ceived that if once established, the great benefits of it would
be so soon found out by parents and ethers interested, that it
would not be very long before all would, without opposition,
come into the arrangement, and thus all fear of neglect or
disobedience in future be put an end to. The next point
was the expense attending the proposed arrangement, as well
to the public individually as to the State. It was intended
that no fee should be paid on the registration, but only where a
certificate was required, and the payment of the registrars was
proposed to be at the rate of 23. 6d. for each name, if the
notice was given to the registrar within twenty days, and at
the rate of one shilling per entry after that time.—( At least
SO we understood the Noble Lord, who occasionally dropped his
.voice in such a manner as to render the conclusion of his sen-
tences almost unintelligible.) The superintending registrar
would receive about 2d. for each name in the registers with
which he was concerned. The whole expense would (on a calcu-
lation that 812,000 names would be annually yielded) amount
to about 40,0001. per annum for the registrars, and for the
superintending registrars to 15,0001. or 18,000/. The ex-
penses of the central registration would not be considerable.
The Noble Lord then proceeded to enter into a statement of
the provisions of the other measure to which he had referred,
for amending the laws relating to the celebration of marriages.
He thought himself entitled to say of this law, as he had done
of that for regulating the registration of births and deaths,
that there was a very great confusion in our legislation be-
tween those matters required by the State for its own purposes
for the well-governing of the country, and the right succes-
sion of property, and those which belonged to religion and to
the conscience. For instance, it was most necessary that the
State should have certain things declared previously to the
performance of the marriage ceremony, in order to the avoid-
ance of clandestine marriages, and to its assurance that the
parties were in a situation to be able to enter into the contract,
and to make their position fully known. For this purpose it
was most desirable that the register in wlich the names were
contained should be common alike to all subjects of the empire,
whatever their religious opinions. That was what the State
required, as well fer the due succession of property as for
the maintenance of order and morality; and to this point,
therefore, the attention of the Legislature should be more
particularly directed. By far the greater portion of the
community (indeed, nearly the whole) were agreed upon the
desirableness of there being a religious ceremony upon the
celebration of marriage ; but they were very far indeed from
being agreed upon the manner in which that ceremony should
be performed. The great object of the State was, that the
ceremony, be it what it might, should be binding on the con-
sciences of the parties.—( Hear, hear.) Let it be once as-
certained that the parties about to be married had complied
with all the forms necessary for their observance prior to en-
tering into the engagement, and that the manner in which the
ceremony was prepared for and performed was binding upon
the consciences of those parties, and then all that the State
required for its purposes would be accomplished. But the law
at present went on a principle totally opposite to this. It was
formerly the law of this country that, although it was usual for
banns to he published, and the ceremony performed in church,
yet that, if a marriage were performed through the interven-
tion of the civil authority per verba in presenti tcnipore, it was
held good in Courts of Law and in the Ecclesiastical Courts.

between the practice in the case of the Church of England and
that of the Dissenters was, that while the Minister of the
Church of England would himself enter in his own register
the certificate of the marriage, a duplicate of which would be
sent to the central office in London, in the case of the Dissen-

ters the registrar would attend in person on the occasion of the
marriage, and certify the fact of its having taken place.
These, then, were the principles of the two Bills which he
now proposed, with the leave of the House, to introduce. He
thought that by establishing civil regulations of the descrip-
tion he had mentioned, besides all other advantages to be ob-
tained from them, they would produce this further advantage,
an advan:age which could not be so perfectly obtained in any
other way, that they would relieve the Protestant Dissenters
from the grievances of which they complained by removing
from off their consciences the scruples which they entertained
in reference to tlicse matters. —( Hear.) By such measures as
he now proposed they would also be following the recomrnen-
.

_
dation contained in the King's Speech, in which they were re-
quired to ascertain whether or not they could devise means for
relieving those classes of his Majesty's subjects from griev-
ances offensive to their consciences. He thought that for this
purpose alone, without considering the great importance in a
national point of view of civil registrations, it was worth their
while to pass these two Bills, because these measures would
establish, without offence to the Church, a complete relief to
the Protestant 'Dissenters from that part of their grievances
respecting which they were most scrupulous. He would now
say a few words, and only a few, with respect to the griev-
ances, he meant the principal grievances, of which for the last
three or four years past the Protestant Dissenters chiefly com-
plained. In the first place they complained of the want of a
national registry, and in the next they rep-esented it as a
great hardship that they should be without a marriage cere-
mony, or rather that the ceremony of marriage between Dis-
senters should not be allowed to be performed by their own
officiating ministers. With respect to those two he had already
addressed the House ; but there was a third grievance, in re-
ference to which he felt it necessary to make a single observa-
tion. Tho grievance to which he alluded was the disability
under which the Dissenters laboured of attending the Univer-
sities of Oxford and Cambridge, and at the same time their in-
ability to obtain those distinctions, whether in the arts and
sciences or in the learned professions, which were obtained by
those who happened to be members of the Established Church.
Now, with respect to the claims of the Dissenters to participate
in all the advantages of such distinctions, he need hardly say
that he was favourable--that he concurred in the principle
which acknowledged their right; but although this was so, he
felt that he would only be binding himself to a delusion, if he.
were to hold out any thing like an immediate hope that such a
measure would be carried- into effect by an act of the Legis-
lature. There was, however, an alternative, and with respect
to that alternative—he adverted to the policy of having some
University where those collegiate honours and distinctions
might be obtained by Dissenters, honours and distinctions
from which they ought not to be barred—(Hear, hear)—on
account of their religious principles—all he need say was,
that the subject had attracted the attention of his Right Hon,
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and that he had
devoted himself 1 tboriously to the formation and bringing to
maturity a plan for a university for this body of persons, for
the establishment of a national university, in which all Protes-
tant Dissenters might safely seek those hoasnra and di:tine •
tions to which superior learning fairly eiltitl.A all men. He
entertained the most sanguine hopo that his Right Hon.
Friend's labours in this respect would not be in vain, and that
before long a plan would be suggested which, though it might
stop short of the particular advantages derived from the Uni-
versities of Oxford and Cambridge, would still be sufficient
to satisfy the hopes and wishes of' the Protestant Dissenters.
There were one or two other grievances, besides those which
he had mentioned, to which ho felt it necessary to make some
allusion. One related to the payment of church-rate, and
the other to the power of admission to bury the membees of
Dissenting congregations in the churchyards of the Church of
England according to the peculiar religious ceremony of the per-
suasion to which the party belonged. He would not enter
into any particulars on these subjects ; but this flinch he must
venture to say—addressing himself to those Protestant Dis-
senters who were sending in their petitions to that House—.
that he did think it a great object to gain, if they wished for re-
ligious peace throughout the country, that while they left the
Church of England in the full establishment of all its rights—
rights which undoubtedly it ought to possess—they should obtain
full and fair equality with the members of the Church of Eng-
' land in all civil concerns, and that such matters should not
be any longer the occasion of either jar or quarrel between
them. He must be allowed to say that ho had heard with
some pain that a contest was intended to be carried on be-
tween the Dissenters and the members of the EStablished
Church respecting cliwpil rates„ He admitted that it was
most desirahle to have the question relative to church rates
satisfactorily settled, and what he sought was to establish a
system of law that would tend to place both parties in such a
situation as would lead to a feeling of mutual good-will be-
tween the ministers of Dissenting congregations and the
clergy of the Established Church, by allowing neither to
possess that which might be considered either injurious er
insulting to the other.—( Hear, hear, hear,) If that sort of
feeling were once established, he then would be able to
at the other question—that of the burial of Dissent:or, in the
churchyards of the Established Church; but sure he was that
if the Government were to introduce a ine"..:nare of that kind
now—if they were to give the Dissr:ittera the power of going
into our churchyards, and t.Lere to perform their own burial
service—they wotllki, 4) tar from producing harmony, only be
widening Ole laroaoh, because • the Protestant clergyman
wcitild Nei, and naturally enough, that they had invaded a
province peculiarly his own by subjecting him to hear in his own
churehyard services performed to which he not only conscien-
tiously but seriously objected. That subject, however, as
well as other grievances, which should remain untAuched,
might be made matter of compromise hereafter between the
Clergy of the Established Church and the Dissenting Minis-
ters, and he thought that if harmony and good feeling were
once established between them, that no Protestant Clergy-
man would object to allow the burial service to be performed
in his churchyard by a Dissenting Minister in whom he could
oonflde, with whose purity and decorum he was avell ac-
(minted, and who he knew would neither insult nor desecrate
his own sacred duty. This was all he would say in reference
to the remaining grievances, especially as church rates would
form the subject, on another day, of a distinct motion, and a
fresh debate, and therefore he should end at present by ex-
pressina a fervent hope that finally all those questions might
be satisfactorily settled, and that peace should at len;;:n-be
established among all religious parties ; on which subject, he
was sorry to say, this nation was far behind others, which, in
many respects, in regard to commerce, wealth, instruction,
and knowledge, were vastly our inferiors.,...—(Hear, hear.)
With these observations he should nip. conclude by moving
for leave to bring in the Bills te,voielt he had alluded, for the
registration of births, deeths and marriages, and for the cele-
bration of marriaaca.---(Qheerit)
The quasttort Fayi.ng put,
Mr. Q'CONNELL" observed, that as the Noble Lord had
spoken only of Protestant Dissenters he feared that he had not
included one class of his Majesty's subjects in his measures,
namely, the Roman Catholics. He hoped, however, that the
Noble Lord would extend to the Roman Catholic Clergy the
same • liberty_ of celebrating marriages which he intended to
give to the Protestant Dissenting Ministers.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that, as respected England and
Wales, the proadaiona of the Bill were intended to be extended
togglall Patholies as well as to Dissenters,—( Hear.)
4ir ROBERT PEEL said—Sir, on this great and impor-
tant subject I shall postpone any lengthened observations until
such time as I shall have had an opportunity of seeing the
Bills which the Noble Lord proposes to introduce, and consi-
dering their details. I shall, however, make a few remarks

Flerea latitude was afforded to those who differed from the
doctrines of the Church of England, and he (Lord John
Russell) had been informed by several Lutherans and others,

that previous to I-754 it had been customary for the Dissenters
to perform their marriages among themselves, but that the
law passed in that year, enacted that all marriages should be
performed by a clergyman of the Church of Egland, after
banns published or license given. That law was, in his
( Lord John Russell's) opinion, an unnecessary violation of
conscience—(Hear)—which compelled parties wishing to ce-
lebrate their own marriages in their own manner to enter a
church with which they were not in communion, and to have
the ceremony performed by a clergyman from whose doctrines
they differed. The subject then nas one requiring a legisla-
tive remedy, one which should be at once simple and effectual.
The Protestant Dissenters, in asking for relief from their sta-
ded grievances, when those applications were made during the
Administration of Earl Grey, and of the Right lion. Gentle-
man opposite, expressed themselves willing to assent to one of
two modes of settlement. They said,. " Either make it alto,
gether a civil contract, at the same time allowing all persons
attaching a religious feeling to it to celebrate it afterwards in

their own way, in their churches or chapels ; or, on the other
hand, acknowledge the religious nature of the obligation, and
allow us to perform the ceremony in our own places of wor-
ship, leaving the members of the Church of England to do the
same in their own churches." New although there certainly
was great simplicity in the former of the two modes proposed,
yet when he (Lord J. Russell) bore in mind the feelings of
the great portion of the people, he could not but think that
they would consider that the Legislature would not sufficiently
notice the religious nature of the obligation if they were not
to notice the religious contract at all, but to make the civil con-
tract sole and sufficient, doing away with the necessity for the
celebration of marriages in churches.—(Hear.) He thought that
the members of the Church of England would complain of it
as an unnecessary violation of their conscientious feelings, and
as being an evidence of a, want of a due respect for religion,
(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) There was one other
mode, that proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, and
proposed by him in a manner which made every one anxious
on the subject, and particularly the Members of that House
who were Dissenters, acknowledge the liberality of his views,
which, however, was not ultimately satisfactory to the great
body of the Dissenters. It was, that the religious ceremony
should be binding upon members of the Church of England'
while the Dissenters performed their marriage; hefere
Magistrate, and by the civil authority only, The question
was certainly one of feeling on the part of the Dissenters,
who said, e‘ You acknowledge the religious obligation as
regards the Church of England, but you leave us without
the means of adding that sanction, as if we had not an
equal sense of the importance of the religious obligation.-..
( Hear, hear.) You, on the very face of the enactment, cast
a stigma, as it were, upon us, and establish an inequality,"_
( Hear, hear.) There being such objections both to the first
plan referred to, and to the last, there remained but one other,
which took as its general principle that the marriages of the
members of the Church of England be left as they are at pre-
sent, and that Dissenters be allowed to perform the reli-
gious ceremony in their own places of worship, and accord-
ing to whatever form they think most desirable. This was
the principle adopted in the Bill he now stilmittpd
to the consideration of the House,..e.i l jcrtrt lie r. . It wee
proposed to substitute fee thP Pte4ent system of banns and
lieeeee, that of an entry in a hook kept for the purpcsse by the
registrars referred to in the statement of the other measure.
The operation of the present system was, that while the
higher and most of' the middling classes adopted the practice
of procuring a license on the payment of a certain sum of
money, the poorer classes only generally had recourse to the
publication of banns, The consequence of this was that the
original design of the framers of the plan, had become fry-
trawd. The provision in question was ia eper4tien hefore
the Reformation. Then it was eicacjous, booause the
parishes were small, the nnwther of inhabitants not great,
and plaoes of worship sufficiently com.nodious to receive
them ni the
; but the plan now failed in these essential rQspeets,
for, in the first place, the'publication of hArm ninst be per-
fectly unknown to the Dissenters, who never frequented the
places of worship in which those publications were made,
4 id in populous parishes, where not a twentieth part of the
inhabitants could attend, a kind of huddled li;t of names was
real by the clerk sometimes, immediately after some of the
most sublime passages in the Bible, and at a time when
they were calculated to distract the attention of the congre-
gation from their more serious duties. In place of all this oh,
jectionable mode of proceeding, then, it waq now proposed that
all persons about entering into the tilarriage contract, whether
Churchmen or Dissenters, should enter in the notice book,
kept by the registrar for the parish, a notice to that effect
-twenty-one days before the time at which the ceremony is in-
tended to take place ; but that where a license has been ob-
tained, an entry eight days before such time should be suffi-
cient. It was true that one objection to the present system,
the great distinction kept up by it between the rich and the
poor in their marriages, would lint by wholly done away with ;
but, at all events, the distinction would not be so marked as it
was at the present time. It was not intended to do away with
twenty-one
p expired,oTrsi
the power of special license at present exercised by the Arch-
bishop‘ce,bingttiaelitrneoedorlif.nt Canterbury.
snotttbteheorrebortikiihirey;
ad.
aoi‘nyv eo
would give
attended
der thetho on
ioelceirattvi
hdfii
having
gya fitnessstreeolgiotrliefsyttrihgae:
parties a certificate of the fact of the notice having been duly
behalf of the parties to certify to their hieing in a situation to
enter into the contract), which certificate on being taken, if
the parties wore of' the Church of England, to a clergyman,
would entitle them to have. the ceremony perforated by hint;
and, in the case of the parties not being of the Qfpirtat yf lung-
land, then it would entitle there ee hate the ceremony per-
formed by
noisier of their own persuasion in their own place
of worship—such chapel havin,, been licensed for the purpose
on the certificate by twenty householders that they had at.
tended worship there during twelve menthe, and that It was
in every reipcct a 41 e t place filr the celebration of marriages.
There was one other provision, however, important to be
mentioned. Although the great majority of the Dissyntiqg
Ministers were and would be persons of toewe respectability,
and fit to be trusted ieiportant charge which this
iii proposed to 'Confide' to them, yet the designation was in
itself so vague, and it was so easy for individuals to adopt
the name and perform the duties for a time, and thqi ei-ase to
do so, that it was desirable to ihd oases or Dissenting
the reeeence et some recognised authority, whose
certificate of the due performance of the ceremony would have
the necessary legal value. For this purpose it WP.9 prowu,d
that the rcgistrar should always attevld +tt the eelebrition of
2711 end :oil-itself' Ater the names of the parties as
ine been present on the occasion. These points having
been disposed of, there yet remained to be provided fay tlte,
efae of those persons, not however very rent‘ice.okis, whp
marriage to be a civil ccntraei 004) aria 9.VP,Lioci oodi-
-104 cat:-atiyaiigi6tis'aVariolly. kr these persons it was pro-
posed to give a provis:on similar to that offered by the Bill of
the Right Hon. Baronet, except that instead of their having
to go before a Magistrate, they would b'- requize4 attend
before ;I:llW,ptc.i (144-; istrar ttte dts'etict dtie
m&liurrieirthe
th. 6 " Co be' 'performed according to a certain
form prescribed by the Bill, The only other difccrence

ox the two main questions which the Legislature will have to
consider; and, with respect to the first, I have only to say
that it is one in which the Dissenters arc as much interested
as the members of the Established Church, indeod the interest
is common to all parties ; for the Dissenters must be as
anxious to prevent clandestine marriages as they are to hare
a perfect and availablo registry of births, marriages, and
deaths. I
NI T,We bond that the Dissenters have precisely the
aamo IrJorest as the members of tltQ Church of England in
seeing that proper provision is made to prevent the law from
being evaded by any of those shameful frauds on persons of
tender age which I am sorry to say our experience tells us are
bott too 'frequently committed ; but, rich regard to that which
relates to religious ceremony merely, all I need say is, that,
so far as I have boon able to understand the Bill, I, as a inem-

. .
ber of the Church of England, make no objection whatever to
it,—( Hoar, hear, hear.) So far as the members of the Church
of England are concerned, no other obligation, to add validity
to the contract, than the performance of religious ceremony is
necessary ; and as the Noble Lord has superinduced no other
conditions, the marriage of persons belonging to the Esta-
blished Church will be in no wise affected,
Lord J. RUSSELL observed that there was a notice to be
given which was equivalent to a publication of banns.
Sir R. PE E1.4--.With this exception of notice previous to
the Qvomany, the Noble Lord's Bill would not affect the
religious contract. Although the Noble Lord proposes that
a registry shall be kept, I trent he will leave parties who choose
the discretion of using An ecclesiastical registry in addition to
a civil one in pase they shall prefer it, that is, that the registry
in the XAAriner which he proposes will not preclude those who
wish Also to register in the Church.
Lord J. RUSSELL—It is intended that duplicates of each
registry shall be deposited in the general London registry, and
there can be no objection to a registry being :Aso kept in the
churollea for those who wish it.
Sir ROBERT PEEL—I hope the Noble Lord will not
overlook the important question relative to those emoluments
which are derived from tho present registries, and provide for
them it; this 44 he did in the former Bill which he introduced
c.et this subject.—( Hear, hear.) This, however, is a minor
topic. In the case of the marriages of Dissenters the Noble
Lord proposes that such meninges shall be a religious cere-
mony wherever the parties attach importance to its being so.
This, waa precisely what I proposed, but if the mode which the
Noble Lord proposes is more satisfactory to the Dissenters
than that which I proposed, undoubtedly I admit that they have
1 right to adopt it. i c,crtainly thought that in the measdro 4
brought fc.rward their religious scruples and feeliAts, were
tufty attended to. I proposed that tht.. tottarriag.e. contract
should have a religious charaeteri. vhereyer it was wtAecl 1 but
I at the same time 1.44 it a, civil contractin altl caws where the
DisseritteiA tOght 4,ekkrc. that it 09,414 ue-t be religious. The
Noble, I,r@
tlAs;llloXtieXci- net given an exact and complete
reprCse.n.tatlor. a toy measure, although his description of it
does not at all vary from the truth. I did arose that
there should be civil evidence of thrl
,iikentraet,but I also,
as the preamble of the ,ill\qi,i,pcoN., .4 tstied the Legislature
to erw,etir,Ao fry much as possible its being is tie it I.o,iVerms
ceremony, and stated the
Bardnet read'the_p. reamb!7, c,,f the
reason vilAy. ''' Vie Rtg' ht I,en‘
111,1.1; 'which set for:l4 OW,
as there was tA d \iii. City in coMPljing with that mi4cth was re.
quired Lay lair.v, to give validity to marrines, 4 was expedient
to, Provide other means of render the. contract binding, by
. i