The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-13 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

In the House of Lords, last night, on the occasion of
the third reading of Lord Melbourne's Bill, to extend to
Ireland the benefit of Lords. Lieutenant for counties, the
Nlarquis of Londonderry, it will be seen, availed himself
of the opportunity to defend himself against attacks,which,
he stated, had been heretofore made urn hint by various
Lords, and afterwards to attack the provisions of the Bill,

as giving pon era exceeding those of any previous enact-
ment ri g,rding 'lreland. Lord Farnham, however, de-
fended the Bill—after Lc-rd Plunkett had vindicated the
onduct of the Government respecting this measure. Mr.

Wilk., in the Commons, after having presented some pc-
itions, gave notice that in the course of the Committee
n tl:e English Reform Bill he would move the intrnduc-
ion of a el:Jose providing that no Parliament should con-
inue longer than three years—a notice that was greeted
with Mr. Mines " cheer" only. Lord Ingestrie, in pre-

•enting a petition from the Clergy of Ossory, &e. respect-
ing the tithe system in Ireland, asked whether the Govern-
ment intended to propose any measure on that subject ? Mr.
Stanley, Secretary for Ireland, admitted that the time was
fast approaching when this subject must force itself on the
consideration of Parliament; but, as to the question, he

replied that it would be to mislead the country to state
that any measure bad been prepared, or was at present
contemplated, by the Government. He, however, viewed
it as a most consolatory circumstance that the tithe re-
ceivers, as well as • the tithe payers, were directing their
anxious attention to this important matter. A long and
desultory conversation resulted from these remarks, in the
course of which Mr. Grattan expressed the opinion, that,
if the tithes and rents could not be collected without the
aid of an armed force, it was time that the legislature in-
terfered. Captain Gordon having adverted to some general
resistance of tithe payments, Mr. O'Connell denied that
there was any such general resistance. He acknowledged
that there had been resistance, and that the spirit, or example

of resistance was spreading ; and lie submitted that,
as such vas the fact, it behoved the Government

to attempt a remedy for such an evil. He ad•le:l,
that the people were not unwilling to contribute
to just remuneration for services performed ; but
that, while there waq such a rich Bishopric as that of

Derry, for instance, with an income of 2?:,000/. a-year,
I;esides other advantages, which increased the income—
while the granariis of the country were bursting with their
stores, and while people in the midst of all this plenty were
starving, was it to be expected that such a state of things
could last? Boring declared that some remedy ought to
be attempted, he asked what had caused the Newtown-
harry affair, and whether clergymen bad not attempted
to caect three half years' tithes in one year? Mr. D.
W. Harvey maintained that all these facts showed the
necessity of Parliamentary interference—that the incomes
mentioned were six times more than any Christian
Bishops ought to receive—and that the enormous in-
' comes were calculated greatly to injure the sublime yet
penurious system of Christianity. A Member having
observed that the Newtownbarry affair was caused by the
mob having fired o❑ the yeomanry, Mr. O'Connell denied
that there was any evidence of that fact; while, on the
other hand, it was in proof that no officer had ever given
orders to the yeomanry to fire—showing, he contended,
that in their estimation there was no occasion to fire on
the people. Mr. S. Rice observed, in reply to the euln-
giums on the Tithe Composition Act, that it had not
effected the good that it would otherwise have accom-
plished, in consequence of it having been reluctantly con-
ceded, after having been scoffed ut—a charge which was
warmly rebutted by Mr. Goulburu. The extended con-

versation then closed. Lord Althorp afterwards renewed
in a Committee on his Majesty's Message, the proposition
that there be a provision of 100,0001. per annum, with
the residence in Busby park, for the Queen, in the event
of the King's demise ; which resolution was adopted.
Lord John Russell then moved the order of the day,
that the Speaker do leave the Chair, for the purpose of
enabling the House to go into a Committee on the Bill.
Lord Maitland thereupon moved that he might present
a petition praying that Counsel be heard at the bar against
the disfranchisement of Appleby. This led to considerable

discussion. Lord J. Russell urged that the progress of
the Bill ought not to be impeded by this proposition, the
Bill not being one of pains and penalties. The question
was one of fict—the amount of the population of Appleby,
and to ascertain that fact it was not necessary to will in
Counsel. Sir R. Peel defended the petitioners on the
ground that they wished to show that the principle of the
Bill did not apply to them. The House eventually di-
vided—the numbers were, for the motion, 187—against

it, 284—presenting a majority of 97 against its reception.
On the question that the Speaker do leave the chair various
Members addressed the House, speaking to the general ques-

- .
tion attd occupying tie time till one o'clock.' Col. Conolly,
Fane, Mr. C. Pelham, and Mr. Attwood were amongst
the Members who condemned the Bill us vio►ent, revolu-

tiunaty, sweeping, delusive, incongruous, incomprehen-
sible, &c., and " repugnant to the first principles of justice,
to the known maxims of the Constitution, and to every
thing that favoured the security of property ;" also as a
" flagrant insult to the understanding of the British na•
tion," Ste. It will be observed that none of the friends
of the measure rose to answer• those several remarks so
that they did not interrupt the question that the Speaker
do leave. the Chair. Midnight having pissed, Captain
' Gordon moved an adjournment of the debate ; but that
proposition was resisted by Lord Althorp, who said, after
the general discussion that bad taken place, he must press
the commitment of the Bill. He did so press opposi-
tion ; and the result of the extraordinary proceedings was
that, upon a division, there appeared for the adjourn-
ment 102, against it 328, giving the Ministers a majority
of 226. A further discussion ensued, and upon the mo-
tion " that the Speaker do leave the chair," the House
divided ;—for the motion 286, against it 90, the Ministers
gaining a majority of 196. Another discussion took place
on the motion that the debate be adjourned till Thursday,
when the Ministers, upon a division, had a majority of
172, there appearing for the adjournment 63, against it
235. Lord Stormont then moved that the debate be ad.
journed till five o'clock this day ; the Chancellor of the
Exchequer hoped the Noble Lord would allow the Speaker
to leave the chair, but, a division being pressed, there ap.
peared for the adjournment 44, against it 214, again leav-
ing the Ministers 170 majority. Division on division suc-
ceeded, but on the seventh and last, the Ministers tri-
umphed, with a majority of 163, and the House adjourned
at balf.past seven this morning.—Morning Herald.

EIGHT O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING.—A scene which
baffles description took place last night in the House of
Commons. The Opposition are determined to succeed in
embarrassing the Ministers coute qui coute. The old
strategics practised before the prorogation of the last Par-
liament were resorted to. After an idle waste of time,
an adjournment of the debate was moved at twelve o'clock.
Sir Robert Peel, and the more discreet part of the
Opposition, in disapproved of this course, and said there
was time enough remaining for discussion. This was
not, however, what the factious Opposition wished.
They kept dividing every five minutes in -order to compel
an adjournment, protesting all the while an r.ithor-
renee of faction. At half-past seven o'clock this morning,
after a night and morning spent in this indecent manner,
Lord Althorp consented to have the Bill committed pro
forma, that it might be re=committed to-morrow (this
day), when matters will be just where they were at the
beginning of last night. It is in this way that these men
think that they shall be able to defraud the people of this
country of their ju,:t rights. We rejoice that they. have
shown the cloven foot. They are unmasked sufficiently.
The object, we repeat, is to prevent the Bill passing at all.
The observations which are subjoined express our senti.
meats, written at an earlier hour. Shameful proceedings !
Never was so audacious an insult offered to a great nation.
_Morning Chronicle.

Hitherto all has been plain sailing with the Reform Bill.
Last night, however, the opposition to the Bill commenced
in good earnest. The public have been taught to expect
that the discussion on the principle of the Bill was by no
imans the most formidable of the dangers it would have to
encounter. Last night, however, will serve to enlighten
them with respect to the peculiar nature of the -warfare
which is to be waged against the Bill. On moving the
Order of the Day for the House going into a Committee
on the Bill, up starts Lord Maitland, to move an amend-
ment, that the petitioners of the borough of Appleby be
heard at the bar by Counsel, for the purpose of showing
that it was unjust to include that borough in Schedule A,
the Population being 2,616, consequently above 2,000, the
limit of total disfranchisement. In 1811 he said the borough
of Appleby was made to include the parish of St. Michael
1,109, and St. Lawrence 1,060, together 2,160;
but in the census of 1821, followed by the Govern-
Inent, the parish of St. Lawrence was totally omitted,
and the population of Appleby stated to consist
of 13119 which was, in fact, only the population
of St. Michael's. All that is really required for the
guidance of Parliament is the fact,—what was the popu-
lation of Appleby,
and the other places included in Sche-
dule A and B, in 1821 ; and this fact can best be ascer-
tained in a Committee. The principle of the Bill is the
total and partial disfranchisement of certain boroughs on