The Sun.
London, England, 1822-02-09 00:00:00

nightly Meetings, by Carrying fire and sword into, the d c;el.-
hogs of defencess innocence. The measures might not per-
haps fit as exactly as many Hon. Members might wish, but if
their merits overbalanced the defects, that was sufficient in
such cases. With respect to the loss of Trial by Jury, it
should be remembered that if means Of intimidation were not re-
sorted to, that would not be necessary. But he did not see any
ground for jealousy of the ha-is into which ths power was to
go, as unless the Lord Lieutenant,' and the King's Serjeant,
and the Bench of Magistrates conspired, the liberty of the
subject Was not endangered. •
Mr. S. RICE deprecated the departing, from the usual way
of scrutinizing measures brought before Parliament, by voting
confidence in any individual. He could not agree with the
Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down in the view he had
taken of the abolition of the Trial by Jury. He directed ;at-
tention to the conduct of late juries in Ireland as an answer to
those who talked of intimidation. When the Report was
brought up, he should propose some amendments, tending to
establish a substitute for the trial by jury. He meant to ro-
pose that the abolition or not of trial by jury should be left to
the,discretion of the King's Serjeants. There were also other
amendments, which he would state to the :House when the
proper period arrived.
Mr. CALCRAFT said, that the opinion with which he had
come to this discussion, that the afflicting state of Ireland
called for those severe measures, had been strengthened by all
he had heard on the subject. It appeared to him that his lion.
Friends'looked at one side of the question only, when they en-
larged upon the evils which would be inflicted on the Constitu-
tion by the passing of, these Bills:. He (Mr. Calcraft) did not
like Insurrection Acts any more. than they did, but he liked
rebellion still less..—(Hear ! )—The alternetive- was either to
suffer murder, massacre, and outrage, or these bills.—(Hear,
hear, hear !)_He thought it was better to select these than
measures more extensive and more arbitrary, which had
been recommended.—(}fear.)—lle must here state that he' re-
posed the most perfect confidence in the Lord Lieutenant of
Ireland, feeling. no apPrehension as to the use. he make
of the powers given him by these Bills: The application of the
remedy Was at his discretion. Coercion, therefore, could only
be applied to the diseased part, and not to the whole. From
what he had heard in that House of the character of the local
Magistracy of Ireland, lie certainly was surprised that it had
fallen to his lot to know so many respectable Gentlemen in the
Commission of the Peace in that Country. Some improper ap-
pointmenti there might be, but he would ask how they couid
expect to cure absenteeship by informing the Gentry of Ireland
that they were unfit to be trusted with power- to put down put-
rage raging at their very doors. This was a pretty inducement
held out to Country Gentlemen to reside on their estates.
The Hon. W. LAMB said lie should give his vote for
the measure on the ground of confidence in the Marquis of
Wellesley, and of the public notoriety of the disorders to be re-
pressed. He could not agree to what had been said on the sub.
ject of the character of that Nobleman. He would not go into
the question of his conduct in India; but he would declare it as
his opinion, that he was not more distinguished for energy of
character, than for his love of public liberty, and his anxiety and
solicitude for the happiness of those 'committed to his care.—
( Hear !)—But it was in him personally that he was willing to
place this confidence. He would freely give it to every Chief
Governor of Ireland. In the present case it was not only to
that illustrious individual, but to all the Gentlemen from that
country who had spoken on the subject in that House, that lie
was giving his confidence to.—(Hear, hear !)—They had all
declared that some prompt efficacious measure was wanting.—
These were the grounds of his assent to the measures, which
he could not deprive of their efficiency by acceding to any of
the proposals which had been made to modify them. With re-
spect to the causes of the present state of Ireland, he must state
that he was ready to enter into the consideration of her griev-
ances. But it should be remembered, that the defects com-
plained of were of long growth, end therefore not easily to he
removed. They had been told that all her evils proceeded
from the misrule of this Country, which had changed the cha-
racter of the people. Unfortunately it was a false propensity
in human nature to attribute mishaps to the faults of others
than ourselves. Persons had either been erroneously influenced,
erroneously advised, perverted, or misled in some way ; and
when we attributed our wrongs to the errors of others, we were
also apt to look for a remedy from others. If laws of Eng-
land had been the cause of the evils complained of, he should
be willing to entertain the consideration of the matter under
that shape. But then it might be said that'the existence of
middle men was the work of the laws of England, because they
tolerated it. The laws might be perverted, but he should say,
that those who so used the laws of England as to produce
that evil, should also find the 'remedy. If Gentlemen of Ire-
land, from their eagerness to become Members of Parliament,
chose to cut off their estates into forty shilling tenants, and
thereby 'created an impoverished tenantry from which so many
evils sprung, it was for them' to apply the remedy—the law of
England could not.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—'Those lawn which
had the best effects in one country might be perverted to the
worst in another without any blemish in them. Under the
many difficulties in which Ireland was plunged, he thought the
argument becaMe stronger for reposing confidence and adequate
powers in a liberal, wise, and sensible Administration,—(Hear,
hear, hear !)

Mr. HUTCHINSON wished to give the Irish Government
those powers which might be necessary to put down the dis,
turbances in Ireland, but he did 'not think a case made out for
suspending the Habeas Corpus Act, or for passing* the -other
measure now proposed to Parlianient by his Majesty's Mini-
sters. He read extracts from the dispatches last received from
the Marquis Wellesley, and thence argued, that ati increase of
the Military force in Ireland would suffice to put down the dis-
affected, without the proposed suspension of the would not in any way compromise with rebels in arms, but
it was his opinion that if the House - passed these measures, or
any others, without at the same time pledging themselves to
take into consideration the state of Ireland, and manfully to
I sift its grievances to the bottom, they would not do their duty. '
Colonel DAVIS said, an allusion had been made to him as
having treated this subject with levity. lie felt it necessary
only to repel the charge. He had not acted the part supposed,
but he was of opinion, that they ought not to occupy them-
selves with inquiring into the causes of the disturbances while
the rebellion gained • ground. The Hon. Gentleman behiifd
him wished for an extra military force in Ireland. But had he
not voted for every reduction of the army that had been pro..
posed in the last Session ?—:[Mr. Hutchinson said "
1—
Where then was the additional force to come from.? 'Was an-
other army to be raised ? The conduct of the Hon. Gentleman
seemed inconsistent—now calling for the army to retire—now
demanding that it should advance. He was as friendly to con-
ciliatory measures as the Hon. Gentleman himself could be;
but when . it became necessary to employ measures of coercion,
he wished to see such adopted as were likely to prove efficient.
The question was then put and carried, and the House re-
solved itself into the Committee.
The Blanks were filled up, and the House resumed
Mr. BROUGHAM then brought up the Report of the Cont. which was agreed to. • •
Mr. S. RICE wished to omit certain expressions which want
to do without the intervention of a Jury ; and accordingly
moved to omit the words, " without a Grand Jury, and with-
out a Bill found."—The motion was negatived.. •
A second clause, proposing to omit the words, declaring that
any conviction, judgment, or acquittal, procured without the
intervention of a Grand Jury, or the verdict of a petty Jury,
should be equally valid, as if obtained by means of a Grand
Jury and a Petty Jury, was proposed by the same Hon. Gen-
tleman, and negatived.
Mr. S. RICE then moved a clause which went to afford ad-
ditional faCilities for persons accused to give bail, and to obviate
those inconveniences which might be sustained by individuals
from being compelled to wait from time to time for the-hold-
ing of the Court of Sessions, by enabling a Kins's Sergeant or
King's Counsel to receive bail. •
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY defended -the Bill as
it stood. He saw no reason for annulling the powers of the
Courts of Sessions, but they should sit front day to day to re-
ceive bail.

Mr. SPRING RICE considered his Amendment to be ne-
cissary, as the Courts of Sessions in Ireland suffered days
and weeks, and sometimes even a month, to intervene' be-
tween their sittings. The clause only went to propose that
a person found out of his house, who might be able to establish
his innocence the instant he came before the Court,'- should not
be detained in custody for weeks together, waiting for the Ses-
sions. If the Noble Marquis meant to provide by this Bill
that the Court.should sit from day to day, then his objection
would be satisfied. The addition which he had proposed could
do no harm, but !night do good, and therefore he hoped the
Noble Marquis would not persevere in his opposition. •,
The House divided—
For the Motion
, Against it

- . 30
- - - 139
Majonly - - —lO9
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
When strangers were re-admitted, the SPE AK E m was putting
he question that the House should go into Committee on the
labeas Corpus Suspension Bill.
On this the House divided, when the numbers.were—
For going into Committee - 127
Agamst it - 36
—9l

Majority -
"When strangers had been re-admitted,
The Bill laving been through the Committee,
Mr. BuociDEN brought up the Report, which was received
and agreed to.
The Nlarvis of LONDONDERRY moved that the Bill
should be real a third time.
Sir F. BUItDETT wished to .know in what way it was pro-
posed to inderninify those who acted under this 'Bill ?,
Mr. DENNAN Said. that, perhaps, the Honourable Baro-