The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-29 00:00:00

ti e franchise of a borough which occupied only a small
part of it, was the exception to the rule on which they
had gone, and he did not see why it should be extended in
the cases mentioned.
Mr. CROKER said there was no objection which the
Noble Lord had used against what be (Mr. Croker)
ns pro-
t
posed, which would not apply with equal force agai
Northallerton.
Mr. J. L. KNIGHT said, that if the parish had the
name of Clitheroe, he supposed there could be no doubt
that the franchise would be extended to it ; but it was a
different name, ergo it should return one Member instead
of two. If this was not the reasoning of the Noble and
Hon. Members opposite, he certainly did not understand
it. Another objection to the extension of the franchise to
the parish was, that it would include an agricultural popu-
lation, which teemed at a discount at present, and not to
be compared in importance with the 101. householders.
Bat how did this objection apply to the inhabitants of the
parish of Whalley ? Why the borough stood in a parish
with a manufacturing population of 84,000 persons. Why,
then, was not this place to send two Members to Parlia-
ment ? Was it that it had not a sufficient population ?
or that it lay in part of two parishes, as was unfortunately
the case with Appleby ? No ; but because the name of
the parish was Whalley, and not Clitheroe.—(Hear, hear.)
The lion. and Learned Gentleman went on to show that
many of the parishes in Lancashire were divided into sepa-
rate ecclesiastical jurisdictions, which, for all purposes,
were parishes except the name. That was the case with
Clitheroe, and amongst those divisions was one—that of
the chapelry of Clitheroe—which included three town-
ships, and contained a population of 4,032. Here, then,
was the mother church of the parish, having the same
name as the borough, and here, therefore, was a case which
met the principle of the Noble and Hon. Members oppo-
site. Here was the required population.
Mr. STANLEY asked on what authority this statement
as to population rested.
Mr. KNIGHT said that it rested on authority which
lie believed to be correct. He would give no other answer.
A Meeteea here rose to order; hot on being called on
by the Chairman to state the ground on wbich he rose, he
did not persevere.
Mr. KNIGHT said, if after what they were told, that
Members would have the opportunity of stating facts as to
boroughs proposed to be disfranchised, the facts he stated
were doubted, he demanded an inquiry.—(Hear, hear.)
Here %VW a case which came within the Noble Lord's prin •
eiple, and demanded an answer.
Mr. STANLEY regretted that the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had shown such want of temper.—(Hear,
hear, horn the :Ministerial side.) The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had not long been a Member of that House ;
and when lie was more acquainted with it, he would be
aware that it was not a departure from the courtesy due
from one Member to another to ask, on a nice point of a
disputed fact, on what authority a statement referring to
that fact tested.—(Hear, hear.) It certainly was not in
accordance with the courtesy of that House that the Hon.
and Learned Member, when asked a question, should draw
himself up, and putting himself in a posture, with folded
arms, should say, " You have your population returns,
but I have my assertion, and if you ask me on what
authority it rests, all I shall tell you is, that I will not
tell, and you may go where you can to find it."—(Cheers
from the Ministerial side.) As he had not the Hon. and
Learned Member's authority for the statement, all he
should say of it was, that it would be much better to rely
upon the population returns, which gave no such account
as the Hon. and Learned Member had read. The Right
Hon. Gentleman then went on to contend that the parish
of Whalley was a large district, including several town-
ships, but Clitheroe was a separate district, which had
been formerly under the rule of the Abbey of Whalley.
The borough of Clitheroe was a different jurisdiction ;
and as it was stated in the returns to have a population
under that which the House had decided should be the
rule for the return of two Members, be must he excused
if he declined to take the statement of the lion. and Learned
Member, however respectable his individual authority
might be.
Sir C. WETHERELL admitted it was bad to be out
of temper, but it was worse to be out of argument ; and
certainly the Right Hon. Gentleman had left the argument
of his Hon. and Learned Friend untouched. No man was
less apt to be out of temper than his lion. and Learned
Friend. On this occasion he might have imagined that
the call for the authority was questioning his personal
statement ; but lie did not think that his refusal to give
that authority ought to Isave subjected him to the large
share of reprehension which the Right lion. Gentleman
had bestowed upon him. What was the case which his Hon.
and Learned Friend had opened ? The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman (Sir C. Wetherell) here reestated the argument
of his Hon. and Learned Friend, and contended that it had
not received an answer bee iuse it was unanswerable.
What were the objections to the extension of the franchise
hom boroughs to parishes ?—that the parish was too large;
then that the parish was too small; rext that it would be
improper to extend it in the cases where the borough was
situated in part of the two parishes ; and, last of all, that
the borough and parish were not of the same name. Did
the Noble Lord mean to rely on that objection ? If he did
there was no schoolboy who would attempt to answer such
an absurdity. Nor would be believe that it would be in-
sisted on till he should hear it. But if that monstrous ab-
surdity were to be urged, then it waa met at once by the
case put by his HOG. and Learned Friend, that in this
parish there was a chapelry, or division,—a parka in all
but the name,—which bore the name of Clitheroe, and bed
the required population. The argument founded on the
parish not being of the same name as the borough, was
the argument of a fiddler, or a quibbler, or a mountebank,
for a man who would attempt to legislate on such absur-
dity would deserve the application of all those terms, and
worse. Such quibbling and quackery, arch mountebank
legislation, such silly fooleries, such absurd dJdlipg, such
contemptible gasconade, such fiddling upon a broken "riddle,
such downright and contemptible puerilities, might be of
some consequence perhaps if addressed to a new House of
Commous, but they would never pass In the present.—
(" Hear, hear, hear," and some cries of Were
they to tell the people of Etigland that one of the
principles of this Bill was, that the franshise was
not to be extended to a populous parish, because it
happened not to be of the same name as the ho-
rough,—because the name of the parish was Whaliee, and
that of the borough was Clitheroe ?—(Hear, hear.) lie
?should be glad to hear—not from the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, who took upon himself the office of Attorney-Gene-
ra! with regard to this Bill—but he should like ho hear
from some lawyer—from the Attorney. General, who was
hound to maintain the law of Englaode--he called on him
to state whether such contemptible puerilities were to be
the foundation of a legislative measure. Ministers blew
hot and cold on this measure. They said that the fren-
chise should not be extended from a borough to two pa-
rishes, because they were not one parish. 'this was blow-
ing hot ; and then they would clot extend it to one parish
because it was one. This was blowing cold.—(hear. )
All three were absurdities too great to be endured by that
Clouse—(Hear, hear)—whatever might be the case in a
reformed House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CUST said that the chapelry of Clitheroe included
three townships with the required number of inhabitants.
Mr. STANLEY said that the charge made by the lion.
and Learned Gentleman against that (the Ministerial) aide
of she liouse, of acting the parts of fiddlers or mounte- •
banks svit.ll respect to the Bill, was exceedingly unfair.
If there was Any fiddler in the case, it was the Hon. and
Learned Member himself, olio, in point of gestcre, and
for harping continuaily on one string, might beat n
Pah
ganreiet
himself.—(Hear, bear.) Whether tie^. Allusio wit-
spect to the mountebank also applied to the Hon. and
Learned Member he should say nothing. The fin. and
Learned Gentleman had described him es performing elet
office of Attorney-General to the King's Cabinet, with
respect to this Bill. It was often exceedingly difficult
to distinguish the Hen. and Learned Gentleman's com-
pliments from his censures.—(Hear.) Possibly the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman meant to compliment him,
but he should very much regret if his conduct with
respect to the Reform Bill at all justified the assertions
of the lion. and Learned Gentleman, that he had usurped
the part of the Attorney-General on the present occasion.
—(Hear, hear.) All, however, that he would say, in
reply was, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman lied
himself shown, by the course which he pursued, that the
habit of intolerable garrulity,—of eternal and inexhaus-
tible triffieg and verbosity,—of coustently repeating' the
seine things, varied in a thousand forms, end brought for- '
ward without intermission night after night, might still
Ihere to an Attorney-General, after he had ceased to sit
on the Ministerial side of the House.—(Cheers.) 7-1
lion. and Learned Member had been amusing on theps
sent occasion, but, as was always the case with the Hon.e
and Learned Gentleman, Amusing at considerable length.
—( Hear, hear, amid laughter.) 'With respect to the ques-
tion before the House, he contended that it would be a •
palpable eheurilitt, to decide thaetx.dttteletuidsrighlait oil
nvoitin. gtoe
to the con-
the borough of Clitheroe should.
seining 57,000 inhabitants. 'd_ ( parish
their
15:21, and by them they were pre.
ase one the returns of
pared to stand.
31r. CUST said, that the population. of Clitherow, with
the three township), cubit ccording to official &ce-
ments, the requisite nmber of i aiihaante to Save the bo-
eough from disfranchisement.' •
PRAEI) ileprecatslthe introduelion of Per''')"Li •