The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-24 00:00:00

in this he had pursued what he considered a constitu-
tional course. While measures were passing through Par-
liament, the Government were responsible fear thz,m, but
when they were adopted by the Legislalure, then the re-
,ponsibility rested on Parliatuent.—(Hear.) lie said
the, whole of our legislation had been inefileient—the
early temporary, as well as the more recent so-called
permanent measures; but in doing so ho wished to cast
he direct or special censure upon the Government. He
thought that the fact must be admitted, and therefore he
trusted that in that, the first assembly iu the world, it
would be resolved to commence a new policy—based
upon the principle that, in order to maintain our high
Place among nations, Ireland must be made happy and
Prosperous. When it was so, England would still hold
her head aloft, and keep its place in the van of civiliza-
tion,—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Member concluded by
moving the resolutions.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said there was very much in
the speech of his lion. Friend from which he was com •
pelted to dissent; but there was one part of it especially
Which he must express his surprise at, namely, the as-
sertion that during the present session the 'louse had
shown an indisposition to discuss Irish atiairs.—(hear,
hear.) Whatever difference of opinion there might be
Upon other subjects, ho thought there could be none
as to the patience, the almost unexampled pstence,
with which everything relating to Ireland had been con-
sidered.—(Cheers, and " No, no.") His lion. Friend
himself was an instance of this attention to Irish
affairs. At the end, he might almost say the last day
of a session, which had been almost exclusively occupied
with Irish affairs, the Honourable Gentleman came down
and superseded the Irish representatives—(Hear, hear)—
Whose peculiar duty it was to complain, if complaint was
justifiable.—(hear, hear.) Though the Hon. Gentleman
knew nothing of the country—(Hear, hear)—though he
had never sot his foot in it, he now came not, as he said,
to censure the policy. of the Government, but to censure
Parliament for its legislation for Ireland, and of course
to censure the Government for the measures which it
had proposed to Parliament, and which had been adopted
by it.—(Hear, hear.) He certainly must express his
astonishment at the extremely inconsistent nature of the
speech of the Hon. Gentleman. At the commencement
he had alluded to the Labour-rate Act, and then to the
Poor-law Act, and laid all the evils and sufferings which
afflicted Ireland to these measures; but his Hon. Friend
had not proceeded far before he came to the real causes
of these evils, and denicted their antiquity and severity
in a way from which he was certainly not inclined to
differ much, but which, at the same time, he must say,
did not throw much now light upon the subject, and he
therefore did not feel called upon to follow him into de-
tails. He felt the more difficulty in following the Hon.
Member through all the documents he had brought for-
ward, because there was scarcely one of the social evils
of Ireland which the Hon. Member did not take up, but
many of these were matters not to be discussed in a few
hours in one night, but would require separate discus-
sion for successive nights.—(Hear, hear.) He would,
however, briefly advert to the evils which the Honour-
able Member said had been caused by the legislation of
Parliament. In the year 1845 the Right Hon. Baronet
passed an Actof Parliament to provide for the pressure
which threatened to bear on Ireland. That pressure
did not prove to be so heavy as was anticipated, but in
the following year the famine pressed severely on the
country, and then the present Government proposed the
Labour-rate Act as a means ;of staying its ravages.
That measure did not materially differ from the former
one, but the times and circumstances were different.—
(Elear.)The Hon. Gentleman had pointed out its defects,
but it was easy after the events to do so.—(llear, hear.)
It was, however, a singular thing that at the time the
Act was passing the Hon. Gentleman raised no opposi-
tion to it.—(Hear.) He now came forward and threw
blame on the House and the Government. But where
was he at that time?—(Cheers.) He was a Member of
the House at the time, why was he not there to take his
share in the debates?—(Hear.) Oh, bat, said his Hon.
Friend, scarcely was the Act passed when the gentry of
Ireland assembled and called upon the Lord-Lieutenant
for a change; but he said the place of the Irish gentry
was in that House.—(Cheers.) However late in the
session it was, it was their duty to have been there to
advise the Legislature as to the most practical methods
of meeting the difficulty. It was no excuse that they
complained to the Lord-Lieutenant of the con•
sequences of their own neglect. (Loud cheers.)
Well, then, the Honourable Gentleman having denounced
this measure, and it was easy to do so, as he had
said, after the event, proceeded to denounce the Poor-
law Act. In passing he would say, however, that the
absence of the first would have sentenced hundreds and
thousands of persons to death.—(Hear, hear.) The real
truth was, that no one could have forseen that so much
pauperism and misery would have to be relieved; but
with all its defects it had met the emergency to a consi-
derable extent.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the
poor-law, he denied that it was intended to meet a fa-
mine. They had no reason on the Bth of June, 1847,
when it received the Royal:Assent, to anticipate another
famine like that of the previous year. It was a mea-
sure intended for the remedy of ordinary evils, and al-
though the Hon. Gentleman had depicted what he
called an average sample of the misery and destitution
of Ireland under its opeartion, he must take leave to
Say that these statements were, in his opinion, most ex-
aggerated.
Mr. HORSMAN—I quoted from the Blue Book.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said it was easy to go through
evidence, and pick out a bit here, and another there, in
order to make out a case.—(Hear.) But, as a sample of
tho average condition of the horrors, the Hon. Gentle-
man took Ballina. Why, Ballina was not an average,
but an extreme case, and even in it he saw hopes of a
better time under the poor-law.—(Hear.) The return
for the week ending the Bth of June, 1849, showed that
the number of persons receiving relief was 2S,ooo—an
enormous number, certainly—but in the corresponding
week of 1848 they were 41,000.—(1.1ear, hear.) He
thought, therefore, it was evident under the operation
of this law, the pauperism of Ireland was decreasing.
The suspension of out-door relief at this moment would
be the sentence of death on thousands of persons.
The Hon. Gentleman had taken the Union of Ballina as
an illustration, but in the week ending this year 30th
June, 27,700 persons were receiving relief in that union.
In 1848, in the corresponding week of this year, there
Were 41,000 receiving relief in the same union. It was
greatly to the credit of the poor people, and completely
disproved the charge of idleness and want of self-reli-
ance charged against the people of Ireland. Some of
the money came from America, but a great proportion
of it came from England and Scotland, whither they
had gone to seek for employment. It was the opinion
of Mr. Nicholls that the time had come for the extension
of out-door relief to the poor of Ireland. The Right
Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to answer the
arguments advanced by the Honourable Member for
Cocker mouth, with regard to the promotion of emi-
gration, and asked where he was when the question
had been brought forward by the Honourable Mem-
ber for Limerick. He next entered into a vindication
of the present system of taxation, and proceeded to show
that a reduction of that area to estate assessment, for the
nominal purpose of individualising responsibility, would
not act fairly or beneficially. If the Hon. Gentleman's
proposition were carried out, they should have farm as-
sessment, and that could not be adopted if the other pro-
visions of the poor-law were to be carried out. Tho re-
commendations of the Commission recently appointed on
this subject were in progress of adoption, and they would
have the effect of rendering the extent of area more
adapted to the requirements of the country than was now
recognised. He wished to state that it was not in the
power of any Government to provide means to remove
the great distress which prevailed, but they had supplied
palliatives, which were granted with no niggardly hand.
He was not over sanguine, but he thought there were
hopes of a bright future being discernible for Ireland.
The prospect of a good harvest was, he thanked Provi-
dence, easily discernible, and measures had been sanc-
tioned by the Legislature which were calculated to
benefit the condition of Ireland. The Right Hon.
Gentleman concluded by moving a direct negative to
the motion.
Mr. lIORSMAN explained. He had never expressed
any desire whatever that the present potatoe crop of
Ireland should be destroyed. What he said was, that he
hoped the culture of this esculent would not remain the
life and soul of Irish agriculture.
Mr. A. STAFFORD contended that the Government
had neglected opportunities for legislating in au amelio
native tive spirit for the people of Ireland, and red used to act
the suggestions of those practically acquainted with
that
___ country. He then proceeded to review in detail the
mqueeasBr" brought forward by the Government. The
taxation,
representation could not be separated from
The Hon. Member for Glasgow (Mr. Mac•
Honor)
Member
wanted two Members for Kensington, and the
for Limerick (Mr. John O'Connell) wanted
two Members for Ireland, and if they talked about ex,
tending taxation in Ireland, they could not refuse to ex-
tend also the number of Members. He could not help
hadallading to the Savings Bank Committee. The report
the course
not yet been received, and he thought, considering
course which the Government had pursued with re•
ference to that Committee, they were bound to exert
themselves to bring the inquiry to a satisfisctore and
speedy termination, as great public interest was excited
on the subject, especially among the humbler portion of
the community. The Hon. Member then went on to
allude to proceedings which had taken place with refe-
rer ce to the Irish Poor-law Amendment Bill, and espe-
cially to the rate in aid. The Poorlaw Amendment Bill
was passed through that House in opposition to the
wishes of the Irish Members, and by means of English
Inajorities.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from the Irish
Members.) And of such a character was that Bill, that
it would lead to the inference that they had ono kind of
legislation for Ireland and another kind for England.
With reference to the formation of the boards of guar-
dians,
self-government was
wwas convinced that a system of local
Mr. SLIEIL said,i the only way to regenerate Ireland.
the 23d of July, anehlele could not forget that this was
none of the Irish
thought it rather surprising that
propositeoo
Membersnek had thought it judicious to
originate a
at all analogous to what the
Hon. Member tor
it
trmouth (Mr. Horsman) had
brought forward. Surelyydevolvas not from any inefficiency
to the task which bad
on him, or which had
fallen on him. It was notvfiredo:i any want of self. re-
Hance of which his Hon.
presented a perfect
it
had svas his Hon. Friend
model.—(Laughter.) Howeeer,,
thought proper to
thought
which specu-
lative Member for Coekermouth
wety
'some forward actuated by all that an
lative sympathy could afford. But it
not for that
reason they found him in the front or the debate on
that important question, but it was because his want of
knowledge of Ireland was countervailed by
organeontent otherf
dis-
satisfaction dis-
tinguished qualities, especially to be thec
.
hat he and the polished mirror
of ds
es
his (Hear, hear.) But let it not be supposed t
in-
sinuated it was only by the use of eausti s Hon.
Friend was dissatisfied. He could praise as well
blame. He well remembered that in the courseoflaasst
session his Hon. Friend the Member for Cockermouth
Proposed to extend the income-tax to Ireland, and he
mtriledehtn.,(m‘_coraium on Lord Clarendon. Indeed he
`+4) aid remarked that most persons Who were

audience.

lavish in their leraises of that Nubia Lord, were particu-
larly anxieus to wide reline the Government on whir* he
cast so neuch lustre; but he did not confine his preiso to
that Lord-Lieutenant, but extenekel it also to the Prime
Minister, and considerately said that allowatn:es ought to
be made fur the difficulti- s which Ministers had to en-
counter.—(Llear.) And wisely he d d so, for where
was the man who eculd not make allowances fir the diffi-
culties incielent to the di,aseers, which, in the annals of
national calamities, had never been eurpassed—( eailr)—
and yet his Hon. Friend, by his motion, passed a con-
demnation on the measures which the Government had
adopted, for it was his motion, and not his speech,
which they had to vote upon, and that was a censure on
the temporary measures which they had adopted for the
relief of irela,al. Ile (Mr. Sheil) did not say that those
measures NI are faultless. lie was no optimist of the
Treasury Bench. He eves not one who thought the
Government mnst be perfect becaue he might belong to it
—neither did lie think it must be imbecile because he
might not pertain to it.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Ministers might have committed errors, but they were
as nothing compared to the good that had been effected
—thousands had fallen by the mysterious visitation of
God, and millions had been saved by the generosity of
England.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The misery
was beyond example, so was the generosity. When
those mere temporary measures were passed and gone,
what was the reason of the Hon. Member calling upon
them to take this retrospective view—why did he call on
them to inscribe an epitaph on the journals of the
House? The Hon. Gentlemsn next proceeded to review
the measure which had been enacted for permanent re-
lief ; but surely they were not now going into that dis-
cussion. The evils of the poor-law were quite clear—
nothing could be so bad as a poor law fur Ireland, except
its non-enactment.—(Hear.) Government had to choose
between poor-houses and charnel-houses, and they
chose the former.—(Hear, hear.) He did not blame the
landlords for endeavouring to preserve their interests. It
was natural they should do so, He (Mr. Shell) would
receive with caution the opinion of an English county
Member with reference to the duty on corn, or the
opinion of a Manchester manufacturer on the Ten Hours
Bill, or the opinion of an East India planter on the price
of sugar, and iu like manner he had received with caution
the opinion of an Irish landlord on the narrow dread of
taxation.—(Hear, hear.) When the Hon. Member said
that the misfortune of Ireland would be productive of
her happiness, he could not but envy the fancy of that
man who could raise up such a beatific vision. Olam
Fodhla, the great Irish legislator, was but the precursor
of the Hon. Member.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The
Hon. Member talked of a comprehensive policy—what
did his policy comprehend—what was his unfathomable
legislation? ,His (Mr. Shell's) opinion was, that the pre-
sent state of Ireland was such as no human laws could
reach. The prayer with which they opened their
debates must be granted. Ireland must often again teem
with fertility. The slighless and mysterious influence
which had three times blasted that island must be inter-
mitted. It was hopeless to expect that any great good
could be accomplished by human legislation to the un-
fortunate country which had been visited with woes
without example, and which could not be healed but by
infinite mercy .—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON said, as so many Irish
Members would feel it their duty to address the House,
he would now move the adjournment of the debate,
which was agreed to without a division.
Upon to-morrow (this day) being named,
Lord J. RUSSELL said he would offer no objection,
but he could not allow the adjourned debate to take pre-
cedence of the business on the paper.
The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a few minutes past Twelve o'clock.

INDEPENDENCE

HUNGARY.

MEETING AT THE LONDON

TAVERN.-(Y ESTERDAY,)
A public meeting was held at the London Tavern,
Bishopsgate-street, yesterday, " for the purpose of ex-
pressing sympathy with the noble, maligned, and be-
trayed people—the Hungarians," whose cause has been
so often advocated in this journal.
_ .

Long before the chair- was taken the large room
n which the meeting was held, and the gallery at the
'oot of it, were occupied by a numerous and respectable

The chair was taken, at one o'clock, by Mr. Alderman
Salomons, amidst loud cheers.
Amongst the gentlemen on the platform we noticed
Lord Nugent, M.P., Sir De Lacy Evans, M.P., Richard
Cobden, Esq., M.P., Sir D. Norreys, M.P., R. M. Manes,
Esq., M.P., R. Taylor, Esq., R. Williams, Esq.,
Murdo Young, Esq., and W. Charles M. Kent, Esq., of
Tho Sun ; Bernal Osborne, Esq., M.P., Sir Joshua
Walmsley, M.P., F. Mowatt, Esq., M.P., W. Scholefield,
Esq., M.P., J. A. Smith, Esq., M.P., John
Williams, Esq., M.P., James Wyld, Esq., M.P., James
Clay, Esq., M.P., Lord Dudley Coutts Stuart, M.P.,
Colonel Salwey, M.P., Hon. A. H. Moreton, &c., &c.
The CHAIRMAN, in opening the proceedings, said he
appeared before them to-day under a sense of the deepest
responsibility—a responsibility, however, very much les-
sened since the debate in Parliament of Saturday last.
—(Cheers.) That debate would carry to the country,
and disseminate in every part of the empire, facts which
probably would have been discredited, had they appeared
upon less authority than eminent Members of Parlia-
ment, and our Minister of Foreign Affairs. This meeting
to-day was not called for the purpose of upsetting thrones,
of disseminating violent doctines to excite people
against their rulers; but, on the contrary, to speak for
an independent nation that had been attempted to be
put down by the misrule and illegality of another
nation connected with her, and on the part of a foreign
invader.—(Loud cheers.) He would not have taken the
responsibility of appearing as chairman this day were
this question merely a matter between the subjects of
a Government and its legitimate rulers even under op•
pression. He thought it became the freemen in a free
state to sympathise with freemen—(Cheers)—and by a
peaceful demonstration such as that to give a spur to
public opinion—(Cheers)—and he deeply regretted that
a journal which had ever been looked upon as the bude
light of public opinion in this country—(Groans)—had not
on the present occasion taken that lead in regard to this
question which he had fondly anticipated; but he saw
this day, in commenting on this meeting, symptoms of
coming
round to this cause—(Cheers)—and he found
that very journal a condemnation of the opinions that
it had all along held.—(Laughter.) He found in the
Times a letter from a correspondent, writing from Vienna,
in this strain—
" The Austrian empire, as such, is even more rotten
at the core than you have been led to imagine,' not-
withstanding that you gave au admirable delineation of
its present and prospective state before the occurrence
of the revolution. What is more, such has been thee
faithlessness with which the Government have abro-
gated the promises so recently and solemnly made,
and so pedantic and offensive is the tyranny of the
bureauocracy in general, that, little as you may 'be
prepared for such an intimation, I must in-
form you that the Moderate and Constitutior.al
party throughout Austria would view the dissolution
of that empire, and its re-organization on new and
more improved principles, with undisguised pleasure.
The success of the Hungarians is viewed by the vast ma-
jority of the nation as the only possible means of rescuing
them from the thraldom in which they are now held; and
so far from being considered, as a psuedo-Hungarina
correspondent would have you believe, a republican moo e-
ment, it is viewed almost universally as the reverse. A
gentleman of the Moderate party who is on excellent
terms with the Court, and holds a very eminent position at
Vienna, frankly assured me that all he blamed the Hunga-
rians for was the false and vacillating position they assumed
in their own Parliament at the outset of the struggle."
He thought it right to state this to them in case there
might be any one in the meeting who hesitated or
doubted that he was right in asking the meeting to camo
forward to-day and declare their opinion in favour of
Hungarian independence.—(Cheers.) What was the
value of opinion? He thought the tate of Europe was
the best answer to that. It was a duty,
therefore, seeing a nation like the Hungarians
struggling for their independence, and striving
to prevent their liberties being put down by Russian
and Austrian bayonets—(Cheers)—that they shoo ld
come there to-day as freemen, and Englishmen, and •as
men of high feeling and morality and religion, and pro-
test against that wholesale slaughter that they saw
going on in Europe; tho burnings, and firings, and
floggings,—aye, the flogging of females, too—(Groans
and loud cries of " Shame, shame,") and these
they should loudly enter their protest, and
put the pressure on our Government to interfere
in such a manner as to put a stop to such outrages on
religion, philanthropy, and humanity. (Cheers.)
There was another view of this question, and a very low
view, but yet one which in this great metropolis ought
not to be struck out. They had decreed in this country,
by the voice of the Imperial Parliament, the freedom of
commerce and of navigation ; our interest lay on the
freedom of states throughout the world. The freedom
of Europe was to us a matter of great concern.—
(Cheers.) They might have a partition of Hungary as
they had a partition of Poland. He would not detain
them longer, but simply read two letters that he had re-
ceived from noblemen, whose presence had been ex-
pected at the meeting to-day. (The Chairman here read
a letter from Lord Beaumont, apologising for his inabi-
lity to attend the meeting, but sympathising with its object.
He also read a letter of apology from Lord Sligo,
whose Parliamentary duties prevented his attendance,
and stated that he had received similar letters from a
number of other Alembers of Parliament.) He did not
know that he need say anything further, because
there were many gentleman present more competent
than he was to give the history of the Hungarian
struggle, and to suggest the best course for the meet-
ing to pursue. He would, therefore, give way at once
to them, and first of all call upon Mr. G. W.
Alex ander,—(Ch eers.)

Mr. ALEXANDER then came forward, and was received
with loud cheers. He regretted that the task of 'paving
the first resolution had fallen upon so humble an indi-
yhlual as himself, bat p:rhaps the circumstance of Wa
belonging to the Peace Society might have been a
motive for placing him in his present position—(Cheers)
—and it wes as a friend of peace that he appeared upon
that platform.—(Loud cheers.) He felt, as the
friend of peace, that they were called upon to give ex-
pression to their feelings in reference to the unjust and
cruel war which was now raging between Austria and
Russia on the one hand, and the Hungarians on the
other.—(Loud cheers.) When public opinion exercised
so important an influence on passing events,
it was surely of no mean importance that a great city
like London should express its opinion upon those cir-
cumstances to which the attention of the meetirg
would be called to-day. When he looked to the history
of the last fifty years, especially to that long war which
waged during a considerable part of that period, and
which lately the Prime Minister of this country de-
clared to be wholly unnecessary—(Loud cheers)—
when he looked at that he was more than ever
convinced that it was the duty of the people of
a free country to express their opinions with re-
frrence to the desolating scourge—war, and especially
when it was waged in a most unjustifiable and iniquitous
manner.—(Hear.) Allusion had been made to the tone
of the remarks contained in the leading journal of this
city. He confessed that those remarks constituted
another reason for his taking a part in that meet-
ing.—(Hear, hear.) lie had read them with disgust
and indignation.—(Loud cheers.) That paper, he was
sorry to say, appeared to him to have become the
bosom and tsworn ally of despotism.—(Loud cheers,
and waving of hats and handkerchiefs by nearly
every one in the meeting, followed by loud hisses.)
There was on the part of that journal, and of one or two
others which might be named, very great consideration
for our ancient ally Austria, but he was sorry to say
that he saw in them comparatively little sympathy for
the wrongs which were endured by the Hungarians—
(Cheers)—there was little sympathy for cities laid
waste by Imperial forces and by hordes of Cossacks.—
(Cheers.) But while he deplored, on the one hand,
the conduct of some of the leading journals, on the
other he had great satisfaction in seeing that the cause
was taken up by other important and influential metro-
politan newspapers.—(Cheers.) There was besides a
judicious defence of the rights of the Hungarians in the last
number of Blackuved's Magazine, and also an able ar-
ticle, which, though not so extended, is couched in a
similar spirit, in the Edinburgh Review.—(Cheers.) The
resolution which he proposed was to the following
effect:—
" That this meeting, without compromising individual
opinions on the subject of war, regard with sincere
admiration, respect, and sympathy, the noble determina-
tion of the Hungarian nation to maintain intact their
just rights and the constitutional independence they
have inherited from their fathers, against the tyrannical
encroachments-bf Austrian despotism."
—(Cheers.) He admired the earnestness with which the
Hungarians sought to maintain their just rights, although
ho regretted that they had referred them to the arbitra-
tion of the sword.—(Cheers.) He hoped that this
meeting would induce the representatives of London to
do their duty with respect to the Hungarian cause.—
(Loud cheers.) He was glad already to see that
Lord John Russell did not now qualify
the Hungarian insurrection in the same language that
he previously did. He hoped that he would be induced
to use the influence of his high position to persuade Aus-
tria to make peace with Hungary upon just conditions.
Mr, Alexander concluded by moving the resolution, and
sat down amidst loud cheers.
Mr. COBDEN, M.P., then advanced to the front of the
platform to second the resolution, and was recived with
loud and prolonged cheering. When silence was re-
stored he spoke to the following effect:—Mr. Chairman
and Gentlemen,—l think after this demonstration to-day
DO paper will have the audacity to say that the inhabi-
tants of this great city are indifferent to the state of
Hungary, or to the objects of those despots who are
making daring attempts to fetter her liberties and in-
dependence.—(Cheers.) Gentlemen, I appear here to-
day anxious to add my mite of sympathy to that which
you are prepared to express for the interest of the Hun-
garians, and I think it right that I should explain
exactly what my sympathy is, and what my objects are
in coming here.—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, if I have
one principle more than another firmly fixed in my
mind, and one which I think it is not only necessary for
the interest of this country, but for all countries
to recognise, it is this, that a separate and inde-
pendent country should be allowed to regulate their own
affairs in the way which to them may seem best, with-
out the interference of any other foreign power what-
ever.—(Loud cheers.) I make no exception to this
rule. I include in it the right of the Romans.—
(Cheers.) I include within the benefits of this principle
the poorest, the humblest, the most degraded commu-
nity; for it is no answer to my principle to tell me that
certain countries are not in a state to govern themselves
properly. I say, the fact that a country is not able
to govern itself properly, is no reason why you should
go and attempt to govern it according to your own
notions.—(Cheers.) I come now to the case before us—
and I am anxious that no time should be lost, and
as I shall not address you long I hope I shall meet
with little interruptions.—(Hear, hear.) The ques-
tion before us is that of Hungarian independence.—

(Cheers.) If this hed been a question simply between
Hungary and Austria, I should not have appeared
here to-day, nor would it have been necessary, gentle-
men, for any of us to appear here to-day.—(Cheers.)
So long as the Hungarians were left to settle their
affairs with the Government of Vienna, they were per-
fectly competent to do it, without the interference of the
citizens of London. Why, gentlemen, they have, I be-
lieve, driven the Austrian army from their territories,
and to all intents and purposes, therefore, they stand
now in the position of an independent nation.
—(Loud cheers.) So far, then, have they, by their
own power, been able to maintain their own indepen-
dence against Austria. But, gentlemen, my object in
coming here to-day is to protest against an armed inter-
vention as unjust, as iniquitous, and as infamous as any
that was ever perpetrated by any nation.—(Ceeers.). I
come here to protest against the Russian hordes pouring
on the plains of Hungary, and I do so upon the principle
I laid down at the beginning. I would protest against an
English standing army being sent into Hungary to fight
the battle on the other side, and I now protest against
the English Government sending a standing army of
Englishmen to encroach upon the Theiss and Danube.
I come here to protest against foreigners being there at
all.—(Cheers.) And here, gentlemen, I must say that I
have seen with some astonishment, in the speech delivered
by Lord Palmerston—for I was not in my place in the
House of Commons on Saturday, having had a three
weeks' engagement to go up the river on a pleasure party
with your excellent Lord Mayor—there is no mention
of Russia. I say I hayse seen with some astonishment
that Lord Palmerston, in making a long speech upon the
that
speechcharges
fend himself against what I must say were redieulously
unjust
tandeer upone is nothimoinnetwheorHd of Lordsousecoofmmn, ton
i
ynrictty, he makes no mention of Russia.—(Hear,
e hear.)
regret, or rebuke—not one word of the most
moderate
disapprobation against the conduct of Russia.—
Now, - gentlemen, that is the whole question—
Russian (Cheers.)
Russian interference. Well, I have citlrn—
that I am not for interfering in allowing oyOullr
Government to send Englishmen to fight the battle of
Hungary against Russia, and I come here now upon the
same principle to protest against Russia going to the as-
sistance of Austria.—(Cheers.) Now, we may be asked,
why do we assemble here when we are not prepared to
follow up this meeting by a course of action highly cal-
culated to aid Hungary.—(Hear, hear.) Well, gen-
tlemen, we come here in the first place to express
our opinion that we despise despots, and that
opinion will have the effect of proving to
the world that we are a free community,
despite the efforts of Russia, while it will teach foreign
despots not to believe the preaching of a certain
portion of the press, when they tell them that any
Minister, or any Government in this country can,
by any possibility, lend its aid to the cause of
despotism.—(Cheers.) That, now, is something, but
then when we have done that, we can do something
more. I belong to the peace party, though I cannot
claim for myself those views which my friend who pre-
ceded me has explained. I am afraid, however,
if we test those views by the New Testa-
ment he is right, but still we have not come here
absolutely to commit ourselves to his opinions; what we
have come here for is to raise the feeling of the peace
party of this country against this monstrous aggression,
and depend upon it we can do it in a most effective
manner. (Hear, hear) We may be asked,
how , can you bring moral force to bear upon
these armed despots? Well, I will tell you. We can
stop the supplies.—(Cheers) Why, gentlemen, Russia
can't carry on two campaigns beyond her own frontiers
without coming to western Europe for a loan. She
never has dor.o so; she never has moved an
army of 30,000 men without having either been sub-
sidised by England or borrowing money at Amster-
dam. I tell you I have had many opportunities of as-
certaining and knowing the state of Russia, having paid
a visit there recently,when I went a little behind the scenes,
and I tell you Russia cannot carry on two campaigns in
Hungarians without coming to borrow money in
Western Europe or robbing the bank at St. Peters-
burgh.—(A cry of " Question.") Why that must
be a Russian agent or spy, for that is the question.—
(Cheers.) The Russian party hero and abroad would
rather that we sent them swords, cavalries, and bat-
teries of cannon, than that I should direct your atten-
tion to the facts that I am now going to refer to.—
(Hear, hear.) I say, sir, Russia cannot carry on two
campaigns without a loan. In 1829 Russia was engaged
in a war with Turkey, and after one campaign she
was obliged to apply to Hope and Co., at Amsterdam,
for 40,000 flirins.—[Some interruption took place
here.]—Let him alone (continued Mr. Cobden), I dare
say we shall be able to convert him to our principles.—
(A laugh.) I have told you that in 1829 Russia was
obliged to borrow 40,000 florins from Hope and Co.
to carry on a war of two years with Turkey. In 1331,
when the Poles rose in insurrection against Russia,
she could not carry on that war of nine months without
contracting a loan, and only this morning I have seen a
paper speaking of that particular loan having been
contracted, which states that this loan is called in
London the Polish Murdering Loan.—(Cheers.)
Well now, gentlemen, I want to know, as a member of
the peace party, it' we cannot do something to prevent
Russia or Austria from raining a loan in Western
Europe again.—(Hear.) Now the issue of the contest
alone depends upon that. I have told you that they
cannot carry on a war without robbing the bank of St.
Petersburgh, or borrowing money abroad. They have
no one in their country from whom they can borrow—
none among all their citizens can lend them a
farthing.—(Cheers.) Russia alone enjoys the credit of
being wealthy, on account .of the deevit a her diplo.

Dentists, who are clever, skilful men, arid 'who'tnanage to
magnify its wealth, but which no one who has investi-
gated the melees of Russia would believe for a moment.
They tell us that the Emperor has wealthy 01
mines in Siberia from which we can draw any amount of
gold ; and I believe that is sex ionsly believed by some
of the gentlemen at the Government establishment in
Threadneedle-street. Now, I have been there, and I know
what is the value of these mines. The Russian Goys,' n-
ment does not work the mines itself—( !Jere much noise
arose from the silly conduct of some person at the
end of the room, who, continuing his noisy conduct,
was ejected.) If (proceeded Mr. Cobden) the friends
of the cause which we have at heart will only be quiet,
it will be impossible for any cue to make a disturbance.
—(Hear, hear.) I was going to say, for I am anxious
to bring out facts, nut alone for the present meet-
iwnhge,refoL(taheeyar,arheeafracts that n ill be listened to else-
the monstrous delusion, peshepolvve
of the western world with regard to the resources of
Russia. Now, it does nut work the gold mines
a tnhda t cheers.)
s wishg thet o
itself, but receives a per centage upon the work-
ing of them by others; and the working of
those mines are not so profitable as other
avocations pursued in Russia, since it yields but
700,0001. or 800,0001. a year. Why,
Russia gets ten
times as much as excise on the ardent spirits consumed
by its wretched, degraded, and debased population.—
(Hear, hear.) After the gold mine delusion is dis-
pelled, they tell you that the Emperor of Russia has a
great amount of specie in the vaults of the fortress of St.
Petersburgh. Yes, there is a reserve of specie precisely
in the same way as we have specie in the Bank of Eng-
land, but it is a reserve of 14,000,0001. to meet a circu-
lation of paper money of 40,000,0001. or 50,000,000/.
the
—(Laughter.) And bear in mind that
present paper circulation of Russia has been
used to redeem another paper money, which had depre-
ciated from 3s. 4d. to lOid., or one-fourth; and, indeed,
the Government has depreciated their own paper money,
for they have called in their own notes, and paid them
out at 100., under a solemn protest on the part of the
Emperor that there should be a reserve of specie
in the fortress of St. Petersburgh, to
pay any demand
that might be made on account of the notes that had
been issued. And yet their tools, their despicable
minions spread a report among the credulous, and say,
that because the Emperor of Russia has forsooth
14,000,0001. or 15,000,0001. in specie, the Russian
nation is a wealthy one. Now if it goes to war it comes
for a loan or robs the bank, and it takes that which no
more belongs to the Emperor of Russia, or, indeed, to
Russia, than the specie in the Bank of England, and
which he has as much right to take as the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would have to come down to the
City and take the specie in the Bank of England. There
are men who know I am speaking the truth. I know it be-
cause I was on the spot, and when I travelled there I made
it my business to understand the things I am speaking
of.—(Cheers.) Now, I should never have spoken
thus of the poverty of Russia if she had not
gone and violated that principle which every
man who admires Hungarian fortitude and honour, and
who feels an interest in the cause of liberty and patriot-
ism, is bound by every means to uphold.—(Cheers.)
Well, now, these are my moral means.--(Cheers.) These
are the means which I invite the peace party, not
only in England, but throughout Europe, where
they are gathering in force, to uphold.—(Hear,
hear.) These, I say, are the means by which I invite
them to put down the system of loaning.—(Loud cheers.)
Will anybody in the city of London dare to be a party
to a loan to Russia—(Cries of " No, no,")—either di-
rectly, or openly, or by agency, or copartnership with
any house in Amsterdam or Paris? will any citizen dare
before the citizens of this free country to lend
money for cutting the throats of an innocent people?—
(Loud cheers.) Why we have had such a project talked
of. But let such a thing "assume a shape,' and I pro-
mise you that we, the peace party, will have such a
meeting as has not yet been held in London—(Loud
cheers)—for the purpose of denouncing the blood-
stained project—for the purpose of pointing the finger of
scorn at the houses of those individuals who would lend
Russia a loan for such a purpose—(Cheers)—for the
purpose of fixing the indelible stigma of infamy to that
person who shall lend money for such an unchristian and
such a barbarous purpose. That is my moral force.—
(ttear.)
As for Austria, I suppose nobody would ever
think of lending her money.—(Laughter.) Why she
has been twice a bankrupt within the htst thirty or forty
years—and her paper money is down to a discount of
fifteen or sixteen per cent. Surely then no one will
ever think of lending her money. Bet the peace party
throughout the country will do this—we, will raise
a crusade against every Government to carry on an un-
holy war.—(Hear, hear.) Well, don't let anybody talk
of Russian resources and of Russian money. Why, it is
the poorest and most beggarly Government in Europe.
It has not a farthing—in last year there was an
immense deficit, and this year the expenditure
far exceeds the income; therefore, this financial year it
will be far worse. Russia and Austria aro wretchedly
poor. Why, there is not such a gigantic imposture in
all Europe.—(Loud cheers.) They talk sometimes as
though England and Englishmen were afraid of Russia.
Now, I wish to disabuse all minds as to my
views upon that subject. I don't come here
to oppose Russian advances into Hungary, because I be-
lieve that in no possible combination—no accession of
territory—no conceivable turn of events—can Russia in
the least degree be dangerous to England. If Russia
really take a step to require this country, or
another great maritime power, like the United
States of America—(Loud cheers)—to attack that
power only, we should fall like a thunderbolt upon it—
we would crumble that empire into its own dreary fast-
nesses in one six months by the aid of
our shipping.—(Hear, hear.) Russia, a powerful
country I I will tell you what it is. It has an army
which it keeps upon paper without a commissariat—
(Hear)—it has a navy without sailors, and a military
chest without a farthing.—(Hear, hear.) How long is
it since we heard that the Russians intended to invade
Hungary ? We have heard of it four months,
during which time the hordes of armed men that were -
threatened might, had they been in earnest, have
crushed the country had Russia the power of which it
boasts. What progress have the Russians and Austrians
made? I don't shut my, eyes to the peril' that awaits
them when they get there, if a country
like England, with the, forces at its command, might
have gone through the country at this time. I don't
speak of fighting the gallant Hungarians. I speak of
the difficulties of the country. Everybody knows
the difficulty they would have to encounter—
for instance, the difficulty of carrying supplies.
What stopped them was, the want of a commissariat and
the want of money to bring it ; want of honesty on the
part of those who have to administer it ; the badness of
the roads, and the chance of being attacked by a
hostile and indignant people, together with the
poverty of the Russian Government, deters them.
All this I trace to the undoubted poverty of the Russian
Government. The Russian Government were for some
four or five years engaged in making a railroad from
Yos .ow to Petersburgh.—(Laughter.) The country
was as level as this table—(Laughter)—and they were
obliged to go to a banker to get the money quar-
terly to carry on the undertaking. Russia, a
strong, a powerful, and a rich country ! Don't
believe any such tales as these for the future. Refer
them to me.—(Laughter.) Now we do not come here
to interfere with foreign countries, or to make a crusade
against foreign finances, until they have violated the
principles of neutrality, and outraged the rights of in-
dependence. Therefore it is that I proclaim these
facts, and. will proclaim them, and I dare Russian
agents here to contradict them.—(Great applause.)
Again, I repeat it, stop the supplies, and do it not only
for the interest of Hungary but for the interest of the
Russians themselves. Keep them at home,they have plenty
to do in their own country. There was abundant scope for
them to deepen their own rivers, to drain their own mo-
rasses, and elevate the condition of their own people. This
is what I want them to do, and not to enter upon a crusade
with an unoffending people. It is, therefore, from mo-
tives of humanity, and the interest we take in the struggle
of a noble people for its liberties, that we appear here
to-day.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. OSBORNE, M.P., said that they had heard the
resolution which bad been read previous to the one that
had been put into his hands ; and in much of the speech
which had been so humanely and well delivered by the
member of the Society of Friends (Mr. Alexander)
he most cordially and fully concurred. There could be
no doubt that, abstractedly speaking, peace was the
natural state of mankind—(Hear, hear)—but he would
put it to them living in a constitutional state of society,
which they did at the present day, if there might not
be worse evils accruing to humanity and civilization
than the calamities of war—(Cries of " Hear, hear")
and if the destruction of all liberty, and of all civilization,
was not a thing more to be reprobated than the ap-
pearance of a station iu arms struggling for its just rights?
—(Cheers.) He at once, although voting and supporting
jointly the principle of arbitration, would draw a dis-
tinction between wars undertaken for conquest, and
defensive wars, undertaken for the preservation of the
rights and liberties of mankind. If in former times this
great English people had quietly sat down before the
inroads made on their liberties, where would they have
been at this moment? Should he or his lion. Friend be
standing before them this day advocating the sacred
rights of a people fighting for its liberties against despo-
tism?—(Cheers.) Therefore he took the liberty to
say he did in his conscience believe that a defensive
war was a righteous and holy principle—(Cheers)—
and he could fancy no sight more agreeable to the spirit
of justice than a great nation struggling for its liber-
ties against an overwhelming and despotic power.—
(Cheers.) He was not much in the habit of defending
her .Majesty's Ministers— (A laugh)—but he could
not agree with his Honourable Friend the
Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire,
in the reflection he threw on the Minister
for Foreign Affairs on the late occasion; and he must
do the Noble Lord the Member for the city of London
the justice to say that he did not use the term " insur-
rection" in a bad sense.—(Hisses and cheers.) The
Noble Lord was the friend of the Hungarian struggle;
and strange indeed would it have been for one bearing the
name of Russell—(Interruption)—and whose blood had
flowed on the scaffold in defence of the liberties of his
country, if he had been otherwise.—(Loud cheers.)
Now, in much that bad been said by the Member for
the West Riding he coincided, but he must take the
liberty to say that in exposing the weakness of Russia
he had gone rather too far, tor to be forewarned was
to bo forearmed. Although Russia might not be feared
she was not to be despised. Russia purchased five
millions of stock the other day in this country.
Mr. COBDEN rose to explain. The Russian Govern-
ment did not invest a farthing in the Stocks of this coun-
try or of France. It was a transaction performed by the
Bank of St. Petersburgh, in consequence of the ex-
changes having turned greatly in favour of Russia, owing
to such a large demand for grain in Western Europe.
Mr. OSBORNE resumed. He accepted the explana-
tion of his Hon. Friend ; but he (Mr. Osborne) asked
a power which felt no
the zneoting if they thought

<~ .'.,u ~

scruple in overwhelming a country would have any
scruple in keeping faith with the public fuedholder?
was his firm belief that Russia, to proscute her im-
pious and despotic purposes, would make no scruple
of robbing that bank.—(Cheers.) Let the meeting re-
member that the whole theory of Russian warfare was to
make the war support itself, as was said by Napoleon.
Therefore, though he acknowledged that there was a
nucleus of truth in what had been said by his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Cobden), ho would bo sorry if any man in
the meeting should feel that the Russian empire was to
be thoroughly despised.—(Loud cheers.) Their
Chairman, a mercantile man of great wealth and fame,
would not have taken the chair unless he thought the con-
stitutional struggle in Hungary was one against despotic
power. It was in 1526 that one Ferdinand succeeded
to the Crown of Hungary; it was in 1843 that another
Ferdinand took the necessary oath; and it was in 1849
that another Ferdinand broke the oath which he
had sworn to the Hungarian people; and that was
the cause of their meeting there to-day.—(Cheers.) It
had been said that that country had a despotic and aris-
tocratic constitution ; it was so once, but the real leaders
of the people were the magnate:, who were always anx-
ious to extend the franchise, and to recognise equality
of religious rights, and they had on all occasions resisted
the guerilla which sat at Vienna, and which never at any
time gave its consent to the honest reforms made by
the Diet of Hungary.—(Loud cheers.) And what
was it that opened the oyes of the Hungarian
Ministers? Why the rising up of those great spirits
which always made their appearance in all countries when
the occasion arose—he alluded particularly to a man upon
whom he hardly knew, in his humble vocabulary, how to
bestow sufficient praise. He meant the great Louis
Kossuth—(Cheers, and waving of hats and handkerchiefs)
—a man who embodied in his own person the noble feel-
ings and aspirations of the great Hungarian people.
He had suffered for the cause, and was worthy of their
deepest sympathies. In 1836 ho was connected with the
press of Hungary, which was not then free, and he ven-
tured to publish the debates of the Hungarian Diet.
For this crime he, at the instance of Austria,
was convicted by a summary process, and was sentenced
to imprisonment for three years.--(Cries of
" Oh, oh I") He need not tell the meeting
-the public spirit of the Hungarians, which was
similar to the public spirit in all countries wherein men
were oppressed, took him from that dungeon to place
him in the proud position of being at the head of the
Hungarian people. (Loud cheers.) Now, what
wTehree
Lowerthe
c reformshamer po
of sewhich Kossuth in a
in
mem-
ber, and which was similar to the House of Com-
mons, abolished all class privileges, abolished the right
bp,rod by
of the people to give a certain number of days' la •
hour to the state and to the magnates, reduced
the amount of taxation, extended the suffrage, and
equalized all creeds.—(Cheers.) And what was the
consequence of all this ? He united all the numerous
races which constituted the inhabitants of Hun-
gary, so that even the Jews, who formed
a large portion of the population, had shed their blood in
the cause.—(Cheers.) Only the last month an Aus-
trian tyrant hung a gentleman of that persuasion
at Raab. (Hear, hear.) Now this Louis
Kossuth was denounced as an infamous man.—
(Laughter.) He might, perhaps, be so if it were
infamous to struggle against despotism, to enfranchise
the people, and to concede equal rights to persons of
all creeds; but they took a different view of the matter,
h(aCdh
endeavourede e r s
and hoped that, like another Hercules, Louis Kossuth
would strangle on the one side the serpent of Austria,
and would give on the other a deadly blow to the Russian
) to
That
puthighly
down
imaginative
this
h e
ly man
and
sacredJ e lla-
c he I cr
h
b
cause by driving back the peasantry, but some of them,
armed with scythes, brickbats, and atones had resisted the
attack, and had spilt even their heart's blood in the
cause.—(Cheers.) Only the other day a minister of
religion was taken by the Russian invaders and
whipped and hung, for advocating the rights of the
Hungarians. The Reverend Mr. Vimer, who was
well known in the City from his connexion with
the Religious Tract Society, was now expelled from
the country of his birth, and a price was set upon
his head by the Austrian Goverment. The monster,
Elaynau, had perpetrated deeds which outstripped all
the horrors which had been committed by the Huns and
all the other barbarians that had spread over Europe.
Why, this Russian 'tyrant had laid his hands upon the
female sex—even ladies at his instance had been tried,
condemned, and scourged. While Russia might extend
its despotism to Constantinople, and tyrannize in the
south, they should not be too sure that war would not
be brought to their own fire-sides.--(Cheers.) Instead
of reading the bulletins of war at their own fire-sides
it might have reached their very shores.—(Hear, hear.)
He hoped that something tangible would result from
this meeting—not a mere protest by words, but that
they would show, by putting their hands into their
pockets, that their hearts were engaged in the cause.—
(Cheers.) They had already shown their liberality by
contributing money for the support of people who were
dying of famine. He knew of no distinctions of colour
or of people, and he thought they might with equally
good reason assist a great people who were struggling
with despotism, for he believed that famine which killed
men with hunger was scarcely more disastrous than that
despotism which ruined the spirit of men, and debased
them to the condition of serfs. He would rather be the
starving wretch in the west of Ireland than the well-Ted
slave under the paternal Government of Austria and
Russia.—(Cheers.) He appealed, then, to the citizens
of London, by the bombardment of Vienna and Pesth,
by the apostles of commercial freedom—for the tariff
of Hungary was free, whilst the tariff of Aus-
tria was exclusive —he appealed to them
as the lovers of constitutional government—for Hungary
had a free Parliament, and the Hungarians were all
enfranchised—he appealed to them as the haters of
war, and of the cruelty which flogged ladies at Presburg.
(Cheers.) He appealed to them for all of these reasons,
to express their fullest sympathy with the Hungarian
cause, and to render assistance to those unfortunate
refugees who had been compelled to come to this country.
He appealed to his hearers as Christian men to give not
only their sympathy but their assistance, according to
the best of their means, to Hungary, and show their de-
testation of the proceedings of Austria and Russia, and
concluded with moving the following resolution :
" That this meeting view with detestation and horror
the barbarous modes in which the war now raging in
Hungary is prosecuted by the Austrian authorities and
generals, and consider their conduct to merit the indig-
nant reprobation of all civilized nations."
Lord NuQENT, in rising to second the resolution, said
he did so in obedience to the call from the chair with
pride and pleasure, and he should on no occasion, in no
place, and at no time be speaking the truth, if he denied
that it was with pride and pleasure that he testified
his hearty concurrence, not only in the resolution,
but in every word of the speech of his
Honourable Friend who had preceded him. lie re-
peated, at any time and in any place, he should be proud
to bear testimony to the holiness of this cause; but be-
fore this meeting, in the centre of the city of London
—of that great metropolis of the famous city which was
the cradle of English liberty which had formed the im-
pregnable fortresses of the country in the days of her
warfare and her faithful refuge in distress—it would be
affectation to say it was with reluctance he came forward
as an energetic though humble supporter of the cause
which had brought them there.—(Cheers.) They did
not come there to declaim, for declamation would be an
insult both to the object of the meeting and the spirit
which animated every man in it, but to sympathise
with the cause of freedom, and to denounce a despotic
tyranny that was struggling to destroy the kingdom of
Hungary, and driving brave men in a state of hopeless
destitution to the shores of our coast. They came there
not only to appeal to the pity and charity of the
meeting on behalf of Hungary, but to appeal to
the Government, and if the Government were
slow to respond to the ' appeal, to appeal to
the people, who were their masters and teachers,
to tell them that they must no longer discourage or dis-
countenance the cause of liberty in Hungary by refusing
to recognise the uationality.—(Cheers.) Now the case
of Hungary could be told in a few words. It might be
a large word, but he maintained that this cause was the
most sacred in which liberty had ever raised her
armies against despotism. It had no parallel
in the modern history of the world. This
was a large word, but he would justify. it. A more
sacred cause had not occurred since the time when the
ancient Greeks, against odds more formidable than in
the present instance, overthrew their barbarian invaders.
The cause of Hungary, too, was the clearest which
had happened in Europe during the course of modern
history. If the case of English liberty against the
Stuarts was clear, he was prepared to show that that of
Hungary was a thousand times more clear. If we resisted
James the Second, because resistance became a neces-
sity and a duty, the resistance of Hungary to Francis
Joseph was still more inevitable. The claims of James the
IL, being King of the country, was to attack the ancient
constitution of England by the assumption of a power to
dispense with the law; but the attack made by the Em-
peror of Austria upon Hungary was that of an Emperor
who professed to be what he was not, namely, King of
Hungary.—(Hear.) That was an unjust attack upon an
independent state by a foreign invader, who was pouring
in upon it hundreds of thousands, not only of his own
people, but of his hireling allies, who had not even dc.
Glared war, and were therefore not within the pale
of civilized relations so far as Hungary wasi con.
cerned. The case of Hungary could be, tol
in few words. Hungary was a free mo*rch
created by five treaties spreading over a space Ipf F
years, which had been confirmed by that great! in
.national party called the great Pragmatic Sancti
confirmed, too, by England in 1720, and confirmediby t
oath taken by the late King of Hungary. The kibgdo
of Hungary was vested in the house of Hapsburt.
by the same force of circumstances that vested Remove,
in the Crown of England ; and Hungary was as in-
dependent of the Imperial Crown as the Electorate
of Hanover was independent of this country. The late
Emperor Ferdinand, according to the Constitution,
took the oath as King of Hungary, but before the im-
pression of the Imperial lips was cold upon the bold
evangelist, he abdicated in favour of a successor who
had refused to take the oath.—(Hear, hear.) It was
not till the liberties of Hungary were thus menaced,
that she took up arms with fortitude, and she rolled
back the forces of Austria.—(Hear, hear.) Immedi-
ately after Hungary established a constitution, abolish-
ingc serfage, guaranteeing personal and civil libertyw,
haonm
placed at the head of the Executive a man
_se
he should think it presumption to eounleflim
after the eloquent panegyric pronouncedlioss u tuhp.
Pro-
by Mr. Osborne—namely,
Louis
she case of Austria.
longed, cheers.) So much then forof
uss_o_
the;
What should he say as to thseocatsreoops,
toi
4se the un-
and groans)—Russia,o.." wtre
Prime Minister, the
fortunate phrase t
lent to suppress an insurrec-
other night, " were
tion"--(Hisses
but ho trusted and believed that
those unhappy words) were not used in a sense de-
claratory of disapprobation of the Hungarian cause.
lie was bound to believe that a mo, whose name would

~AVJ

be immortal as long as England lasted.—(Cries of "
no.") Yes, the name of Russell—(Cr:es of " lie is en
imposter," and groans and hisses, and partial cheer-
ing) —if not Lim, then the name of Lord Willian Russell
—(A voice: " He has not a drop of blood in his
veins")—who was a martyr in the cause of righteous in-
surrection; he would live in the memories of his coun-
trymen. But Lord Palmerston justified his dissent
from the great Sir William Temple in treating the cause
of Hungary.—(Cheers.) He was the most efficient mem-
ber of the Government, which he rendered respectable—
(Hear)—he wished he had been permitted to follow the
impulse of his genius.—(Cheers.) Troops had been
sent, without a declaration of war, to carry " tire and
sword" into an independent state, which he believed he
styled appropriately when he called it a gigantic act of
piracy—(Loud cheers)—since they were sent without
any of those forms which rendered war legal among
states. The Russian troops had been poured
into Hungary, who were liable and deserving to b 3
treated as if they had served under the black flag of
piracy on the seas.—(Loud cheers.) Hungary, when
thus menacad, might have said to Russia—" With
Austria we are at war, according to all those
modifications by which in civilized times states
endeavoured to mitigate the dreadful scourge of war.
Though Austria disregards all those forms and modi-
fications, and shoots our brethren who fell as prisoners
of war into their hands; though Austria scourges our
women in the streets—(Shame)—for the crime of not
separating from their husbands and not betraying their
country—what if Austria carry sword and fire into the
bosom of a free state—we have not, and we will not retaliate
outrage for outrage. We will wage war against Austria
as men of honour—as men of valour—as men of humanity

—as men of generosity."—(Cheers.) When Russia
poured into Hungary a horde of 300,000 pirates, Hun-
hary would be justified (thank God she had not done
so)—Hungary would have been justified in the face of
the nations, and of posterity, if she had said, "We shall
deal out to you the measure to be dealt out to pirates;
for you have not declared war ; we ask no quarter from
you, and quarter we will not give you." No, they had
adopted a higher and a nobler course. The Noble Lord
then denounced the conduct of the Times in opposing
the cause of Hungary, and more especially in publishing a
letter from an anonymous person, a self-styled Hungarian,
who impeached the character of Louis Kossath, and who
had perverted facts and truth. Kossuth, who had been
above the greatest temptations, and who had, in the
midst of war, cultivated the arts of peace, of education,
and of financial credit, kept up internal peace in the
rage and fury of foreign war. But two honoured names
—Count Teleki and Di. Pulszky—had defended
that great patriot ; and since the anony
mows slanderer had slunk into the silence a
branded slanderer, where he would leave hirr.
He confessed he had a prejudice against absolute des.
potism, but that prejudice was very much increased
when he saw that absolute despotism administered with
cruelty. lie confessed he had a prejudice against per.
jury, against shooting and hanging prisoners of war, and
against
the flogging of women.—(Cheers.) lie did
confess—nay, he boasted—that he entertained the
strongest prejudice against Austria, which was now
under the government of a man, of whom, to use tht
phrase of Abraham Cowley, and which was applied to
a
very different person—he said " There were two sorts
of tyranny, a tyranny ex mala titula, and a tyranny
ex mala exercitio, a tyranny which arose out of hav-
ing no title to the throne, and a tyranny which
arose out of wielding the sceptre of Babylon. To your
Highness most justly belongs that title of tyrant in both
respects."—(Laughter.) Let the meeting then apply
that observation to Francis Joseph, the Emperor of
Austria.—(Cheers.) Now, then, he appealed to their pre-
judice against Austria, and to their prejudice against Rus-
sia, and to their prejudice in favour of Hungary, carrying
on, as she was now doing, a holy and just, and he
trusted in Divine Providence a successful struggle.
Mr. RiorNoLns here attempted to disturb the arrange-
ments of the meeting, and against the remonstrances of
the Chairman, insisted for some few minutes in inflicting
an inflammatory speech on the meeting.
The two resolutions were then put to the meeting,
and carried with loud applause.

Mr. RICHARD TAii.oe then came for ward to
propose the next resolution, and was warmly received.
fie observed the spirit which had prevailed through-
out the meeting with the greatest pride and satis-
faction, inasmuch as fur a long time past he had seen
great apathy in this country, which he believed was pro-
duced by the deceitful arts of the public press, with
regard not only to the question of Hungary, but also the
question of liberty throughout Europe, if not throughout
the world.—(Loud cheers.) There was ono point
which bore upon the subject before the meeting, and t 3
which no allusion had been made—he meant the
question of religious liberty, for they had already heard
tnat, among other excellent institutions which had been
established in Hungary, was that of perfect religious
liberty and equality.—(Hear, hear, and loud cheers.)
Hungary was the only country in Southern Europe where
reformation had been able to hold its ground.—(Cheers.)
Some persons who were formerly their friends had
expressed an opinion favourable to Austria; but he
(Mr. Taylor) spoke the truth when he said that that
nation was nothing but an engine for priestly despotism.
The power of Austria, it was said, was maintained for
the defence of religious liberty; but so far from her
being a friend to religious toleration, she had exerted
her influence during the last ono hundred years in
exterminating the Protestants from the Tyrol and other
states.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think the Govern-
ment was so much to blame as some gentlemen imagined.
It was the people who were to blame for not having
urged .the matter upon the Ministry; but he had yet
confidence in good old English pluck ; he yet
believed that the English people were the friends of
liberty, and were quite ready to go to war in
its defence if it were necessary.—(Cheers.) They
gloried in the success of Bem, and took delight in his
strategoms.—(Cheers.) The policy of the Times he
could not understand; it was despicably jesuitical.
It pretended to support the Ministry, and yet Lord
Palmerston was constantly made the objects of its
base attacks, not that his policy was bad,
bat because they wanted to detach him from the Govern-
ment. He was, in a word, disgusted with its perfidious
conduct. It had become the advocate of despotism and
the supporter of the house of Hapsburg, whose history
was one continued series of tyrannical incidents.
Austria was spoken of as our friendly ally,
but Austria itself was not a country—it was
a house who had maintained power by troops and
armies collected from barbarian races, and who had
always been engaged in a conspiracy against the liber-
ties of Europe.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") It had
subdued and debased the finest Italian states, while
one of its representatives prostituted his own
daughter to Napoleon, to obtain possession of
Veuice.—(llear, hear.) He hoped, therefore, the
country would pay no attention to the nonsense of one
portion of the press about our friendly ally, Austria. Let
them judge for themselves, rather than allow themselves
to be press-ridden.—(Hear, hear.) He concluded by
moving the following resolution :—" That this meeting
regard the military intervention of Russia in the affairs
of Hung Ary as wholly unjustifiable in reason and in fact,
inasmuch as besides re-cpening and prolonging a san-
guinary contest which bad been already virtually de-
cided—it is a gross violation of the law of nations—the
indefeasible rights of Hungary—and perilous to the
peace, the freedom, and the general welfare of Europe."
Mr. M. Mieees seconded the motion. He said he
would not have presented himself to that inconveniently
crowded meeting after the eloquent speeches
they bad heard, had not his name been announced in
connexion with the resolution. Whatever difference of
opinion might exist among them, they all agreed and had
met there that day to sympathise with freedom, and
the struggles of mankind.—(Hear, hear.) He fully
agreed with the philosophic speech of Mr. Cobden, more
particularly that portion of it in which he contended that
all states had a right to manage their own affairs—even
ill if they thought proper ; for it was a leading element
in the law of nations, which had been violated in the
case of Hungary, that the intermeddling of other
nations was fraught with danger. Austria was marked
out by the Congress of Vienna, in order that she might
constitute a great military power in the centre of
Europe, and present a bar against the aggression
of Russia on the other nations. She was
created an independent power, and Austria,
which was subsidiary to Russia, had no business t
portion
hero .
w
(Hear, hear.) Whilst he agreed h a
of what had been said by Lord Jolin" Russ great ell and Lord
Palmerston on Saturday, ho could not conceal from
thathim-
they should have held that the relations entered
intoel self
at Vienna wore going disturbed, and that neither
England nor France would permit it, whatever might
be said by the Times and other papers who wrote
as it did, because it believed its policy would be pleasing
to a certain class of the comtnunity.—(Cries of No; it
is bought: it has sold itself.") But let them have a few
such meetings as this, and depend upon it the press,
which was but their shadow,would follow them.—(Hear.)
e could not conceive, in the late debate in the House
of Commons, why there had been an unwillingness to
allude to subjects which Mr. Canning would have stood
up to defend.—(Cheers.) He knew that they would
stand by Lord Palmerston, and would admire that states-
manship that enabled him to say, years ago, that the then
" political state of Europe was an unsafe and a crumbling
state. He asked them to give force to that propo-
sition. This was a question above all persons ;
and he asked them to hold that language that had
been held by the Liberal party in the House of Cull-
y, mons, who had said that, as far as England was con-
coo cerned, though they adopted the principle of non-
er- interference, it should be known that it was her ardent
on, desire that other nations should enjoy that freedom
.he which she herself enjoyed.—(Cheers.) The Honour-
)m able Gentleman concluded by seconding the resole-
,ao tion by an eloquent appeal to the charityo clue
• sympathy of the meeting on behalf I'lol_
• Hungarian officers and soldiers now
stone, to enable them to return !odet
d nee. The
assist in fighting the battle of thedirrilar pe,o
eacountry to
hteous cause, and
Hungarian cause was a just at
ono which England was not only jushtified but bound to
support.—(Clieers.)
The resolution was then put and carried unanimously.
Lord DUDLEY 6TUART—.3Ir. Chairman and Gentle-
words to offeri,ktoitywoufiellawtbNet.:loinrsedel:et;s.en.
men'—l ha" "c't many
I do not thick
period of the day, and
sary for me to employ more than.. a very
engaging your attention, and in
g obtainingoin g ytoournlsouTpe-
port to the resolution A% hich am
which is, that this Government do immediately recog-
nize the independence of llungary.—(Loud and long con-
tinued cheering.) Yes, gentlemen, 1 knew how it
would
be. You do not want a long speech—you do not want
a fine orator—but you only want an honest and an ear-
nest mind—(Cheers)— to come to point you the way
that is right—you do not
want many words to ask you
to sympathise with Hungary—you do not want oratory
to induce you to declare that Englishmen will ever be
with people who are fighting for their liberties.—(Pro-
longed cheering.) I have always seen it; I have never
failed to meet with a response, and a noble response
from the people, whenever the subject of nations Wag-

•

gling for their independence was laid before you.—
(Cheek s.) I have often spoken to you of Polend
(Cheers.) I come now to speak to you of Hungary,
whose cause is like that of Poland. 'Coe'inued ch,
ing ) I speak to you of Hungar.
Poles, are struggling for all th
and have sworn to lay down their I
their country, and to resist to the di
nations of despotism.—(Prolonged
not want much to be said to you to
of such people, but it may be right
explanatory of the real position
hear)—because, although it is enoug
the Hungarians are struggling for _ ,penuence, s.
still interesting also to become acquainted with some of
the details of their excellent and most righteous case;
and it is the more necessary to explain this, because the
enemies of Hungary, the hired agents of Austria
and of Russia, are never tired with going about
the world and disseminating all sorts of ca-
lumnies against the friends of liberty, and their
agents are to be found in every part, amongst the high
as well as amongst the low—(Hear, hear)—in the press,
in public places, in secret places, in Cabinets—(Bear,
hear)—and, therefore, it is the more necessary that the
truth should be told, and that the base machinations of
the servants of despotism should be exposed.—(Cheers.)
I quite agree with my Hon. Friend, Mr. Cobden, in the
noble sentiments which he laid down, that every people
has a right to choose and to establish its own Govern-
ment, and that they have a perfect right to have a bad
Government if so they think fit.—(Hear, hear, and
cheers. Therefore, if the Hungarians were struggling for
a Government which we could not approve, still we should
say that they had a right to theieindependence—(Cheers)
—still we should sympathise with them when they draw
their swords to defend themselves against foreign ag-
gressors.—(Loud and long continued cheers.) But their
enemies would have you believe that the Hungarians de-
serve no sympathy because they are struggling to estab-
lish a red republic! That is one of the things which the
enemies say. Another thing, quite the contrary, they
say there—they try it both ways—if it won't do one,
they betake themselves to another—the truth is that to
which they have no regard—(Hear, hear)—the other is
that the Government of Hungary is a Government car-
ried on only for the benefit of the aristocracy.—
(Laughter and cheers.) I am here to deny, having
studied the subject carefully, the truth of both those
allegations.—(Cheers.) The Hungarians are not engaged
in a struggle to establish a red republic, or anything of
the sort.—Cheers.) They are not engaged even in en-
deavouring to establish a republic at all, although if
they were it would be no reason—(The conclusion of
the sentence was lost from the loud cheering.) What
they are striving to obtain and to defend is, their old
constitution, which they have had for the last 800 years
—(Cheers)--and which is a constitution more like our
own than any other that has ever been established—a
constitution consisting of King, Lords, and Commons.
That they have always had; they do not at present
demand more, and they will not be satisfied with any-
thing less.—(Cheers.) As to the Government being one
that is carried on for the benefit of the aristocracy, no-
thing can be more untrue.—(Hear.) It is true, as I
have said, that there is in that country an hereditary
aristocracy, a Chamber of Peers, and it is also true
that formerly the right of suffrage was restored to those
who are called nobles in that country.—(Hear, hear.)
But the nobles in that country are wholly unlike what
we understand by that word. Here that class was so
large that it should rather be compared to the class of
electors, and formerly in Hungary the number of
electors was larger in proportion to the population of
the country than the number in this country—in Eng-
land—previous to passing the Reform Bill.—(Cheers.)
But the Hungarians have not remained satisfied with
that Government; they have, like ourselves, required
and demanded some reform, and they have substituted
for the privilege of birth, which formerly entitled these
hundreds of thousands of men to the vote—(Cheers)—
they have established a property qualification like our-
selves—they have got their ten-pound householders and
freeholders as we have—(Cheers)—they found that this
Government, which, perhaps, in former times, although
much better than many other Governments, was too
aristocratical—they found, like ourselves, that they were
not content to be governed by an oligarchy—(Cheers)---
and they reformed their Constitution, and they made it
liberal as it is now—(Cheers)—they established freedom
of the press under the noble Kossuth—(Bursts of ap-
plause and cheering, which lasted several minutes)—
tlaey established the emancipation of the peasants, and
they gave to every man throughout the land equal rights.
—(Prolonged cheering.) Why should there be so much
interest in this country, as I know there is iu favour of
Hungary? I will tell you. I will give you a
reason why; I will give you two reasons. Hungary, of
all countries in the world, has been always the most ree
markable for its attachment to religious liberty—
(Cheers)—for one thing, and to free trade for the other.
—(Continued cheering.) I come to you to ask for
your sympathy for Hungary, with the words liberty of
conscience and liberty of commerce.—(Loud cheers.) I
will not enlarge upon the latter; I will not tell you, as I
might, of the immense advantages—and perhaps, if the
hour was not so late, it would not be improper in the
midst of this great city, surrounded by prince.mer-
chants, who carry on the most extensive dealings in the
world—l say it would not be improper to
point out to you the enormous commercial ad-
vantages which would result to this country from
the establishment of the independence of Hungary.—
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) To establish Hungary as an
independent free kingdom, in a short time England
would carry on as large a trade with that country as it
does now with the United States.—(Cheers.) But
only think of the advantage of having such a country
as that encouraging and maintaining every thing that is
right and good, demanding and carrying on civil and
religious liberty to a greater extent than it is in this
country; because in this country we have not yet, I am
sorry to say, complete religious liberty. —(Cheers.) We
have toleration, but we have not the full religious
liberty which we ought to have—(Loud cheers)—that
no man, no matter what be his creed, should be excluded
from any office or any privilege. But the Hungarians
have that ; they know no difference between
Protestant, or Catholic, or Jew, or any other form of
religion, so far as privileges and rights are concerned ;
and they are opposed to a Government which, of all go-
vernments that have been in the world, the Austrian
Government, and particularly the house of Hapsburg,
have always shown themselves the most ruthless, the
most tyrannical, the most cruel enemies that ever ruled
on the earth.—(Hear, hear.) Remember the bigot
Charles V.; remember Philip the Second of Spain, with
his Inquisition. These times are enough to band us all
in an alliance with the Hungarians against that house,
anti against that detestable Government.—eteheers.) A.
Noble Friend of mine has very happily/spoken of a pre-
judice existing in this country against Austria, and very
felicitously took up what fell in the House of Lords
upon that subject. I will share in that prejudice,
I know that that Government is detestable, and since
opinions have been referred to in the House of Lords in
favour of Austria, I cannot help referring to an opinion
declared in former days in that House when there was
more spirit of liberty—(Cheers) —when there was more
attachment than there is now—and when the Whigs,
whatever we may think of them at the present day—
(Groans and hisses)—were defenders of all that was
good and great.—(Cheers.) I cannot help referring to
an opinion which lam fond of quoting, and which I
have mentioned in the House of Commons, of the late
Lord Holland, who said, in his place in the House of
Lords, " All history proves that if ever anything mean,
oppressive, and unjust was done in Europe, Austria was
the party to do it."—(Hear, hear.) It was then taken
up by Lord Liverpool, who endeavoured to controvert
the position by civil remonstrance to induce him to re-
tract the expression. That nobleman, Lord Holland
said, " I won't retract the expression; I repeat that
Austria is of all Governments, and always was, the most
mean, the most oppressive, and the moss et ei in the
world."—(llear, hear.) Aye, and Lord Holland said
that some ten years ago.—(Cheers,) That was before
what has passed at Cracow—betore the bloody scene of
Gallicia—(Cheers)—when a price was paid:to miscreants
to bring to the Government the beads of the leaders
—before the butcheries that have been perpetrated by
Austrian commanders in Italy, and before the flogging
of a woman at Preshurg and at Vienna. Amply; is
Lord Holland justified in his allegation u. this detestable
Government.—(Hear.) Sir, I rejoice to see such a meet-
ing as this here assembled in the cause of these noble
Hungarians (Cheers) and against those constant
enemies of mankind, the Austrian and the Russian Go-
vernments.—(Groans.) I well know that I have, in ad-
vocating the cause of the Hungarians, the sympathy of
the whole country.—(Cheers.) I do not say that there
may not be in high places—l do not say that in the
House of Lords you may not find old Tories who have
always been Tories, and who have grown old and grey
in their enmity to the liberty of the people, who speak
in favour of Austria.--(Cheers.) I do not tell you that
there:is no apostate Liberal—(Laughter and cheers)—
who, abandoning his own principle now, can do nothing
but flatter the great and egg on despots in all their en-
deavours—who can admire nothing but what is despotic
—I do not tell you that in those places and amongst
that party, and even in the House of Commons,
where where we had yesterday a Noble Lord,Awhherodceeain n,
and to
malign the Hungarians, and . todown,
no doubt, to defend his uncle, Lord
describe s .4h infamous Kos-
head of the Hungarianonfat:?
a
Shame," and signs of
nthe illustriou
suth !"—(Loud cries
indignation.) I do not
tell you that there are
not such people to
be found, but that feeling—
yfur thea ug hltleurn.
)g a r nus •t—tish universal
omuo amongst
B
is I ell
this I know,t
the fashionable circles ! fwohhrtautninaa,treol
and called (Loud
"eel.- that there is sympathy for the thin-
rian people wherever there is sympathy for the Eng-
lisha reople.—(Prolonged cheering.) How much I re-
joiced at the manner in which you responded to my
friend Charles Taylor, when he pronounced the glorious
name of General Bern.—(Vehement cheers.) But a
short time ago that gallant hero was inthiscountry, a
poor and despised Polish refugee—ono ocls, Nh
thatvod
wou bodyl
whom a crtain person in the house of Lords,
be distinguished as a chivalrous man—(Laughter)—fond
of tournament—(R ,newed laughter)—delighted in stig-
matizing,--General Beni was here, a poor destitute re-
fugee ; he was in a state of the most extreme had health
consequent upon an old wound ; he had to means of
supporting himself ; hu was indebted solely for his sub-
sistence at that time to the Polish Association, which
furnished him with a pittance, which now I am almost
ashamed to remember, it was so malt, but it was all that
we were able to afford him in a hospital of di, city, for
he was unable to pay for medical assistance. At the
a
University Hospital ho received his medical treatmeprod
an-
it.
A bullet which he had had in his body t e
gious number of years was extrac able
an washfor restored care
to
y small sum by our
of the late Mr. Liston. That
aenavbelreyd to return to his own
health, and furnished with
Polish Association; he wayand thence to proceed to Hungary,
ctooulneatrdyon ,
gallant Hungarians to victory aid to
raise his name to the summit of distinction and of fame.
to
--(Loud chord.)
t Gh
(751 el cgi
'rho friends of Austria are fond of

I.—(Continued clic& r-. 1 _
rian9;who, like the, ~
'at is dear to trta,‘....›,
)
livei on the altar Pf... 1.
leaththe foul 111241*:::1:. /
I C h csiring.) lii:•u'dikVl.: '
o rouse you in fecouk -,77:,..?:
t t o sattsittdvw oisigy.
of Ifni:mare' .--- i C are,
gh.fetits to k itt! SI
• independence, it is