The Sun.
London, England, 1831-02-19 00:00:00

DISTRESS IN IRELAND.

On the question that the SPEAKER do leave the Chair
having been put,
Mr. D. BROWNE said he was about to pursue an un-
usual course. He had had petitions in his hands for some
days from the West of Ireland ; they were from various
parts. He most respectfully solicited the attention of the
House to the subject. The petitioners complained of want
of employment, and of the probability of starvation before
the end of this month.—(Hear.) There would be pro-
bably, before a month passed, 200,000 persons without
any food in the West of Ireland. For seventeen years he
knew the House of Commons to be attentive to the inte-
rests of Ireland.— (Hear.) They sometimes, it was true,
passed them over from want of adequate knowledge, but
never from want of zeal or kindness. He would not go
into the remote causes of this distress, because it would
lead to long discussion. In 1822 Ireland contained 250
persons to every square mile, while England contained only
222. It was well known that there was great want of
employment in England. How much worse must he the
state of Ireland ? Whatever c tuse produced the effect, it
was the duty of Government to arrest the progress of
famine. He regretted that since 1822 no experiment was
made to remedy those evils. He expected they would have
tried colonization or the cultivation of waste lands. The
place in greatest distress was the barony of Erris, in the
county of Mayo. The Rev. Mr; Lyons, a Catholic clergy-
man, informed him that before the end of this month there
would he 30,000 persons without food, in consequence of
the failure of a certain species of manure, driven in by the
iso, which they usually employed. This clergyman in-
formed him that numbers were now living on the charity
of neighbours nearly as poor as themselves. A deficiency
of crops prevailed along the whole of the western coast.
Letters on which he might rely, informed him that the
whole of this district must be without food for three
or four months if not relieved—if they did not obtain
either money or the means of earning it. Two hun-
dred thousand pounds, about twopence halfpenny a day
for each, would at the least be necessary to keep soul
and body together.—( Hear.) His reason for not bringing
the subject forward earlier, was that he had the greatest
confidence in Ministers, and felt confident they would do
all in their power to mitigate the evil. 51r. Lyons had
still 500/. remaining from a collection of 9001. which he

made last year in England. felt- confident he would
dispose of this in the best way. Ile had already.taken some
land to distribute among the people. They did not want
food for nothing. What they wanted was employment.
This distressed state of the country prevented the Marquis
of Sligo from coming over this Session to discharge his
Parliamentary duties. The distress was aggravated by a
storm a short time back, which destroyed most of the fish-
ing-boats. The Secretary for Ireland told him he should
not agree to a Committee, and he thought he was right.
Something, however, must be done, or the people would
starve. He disapproved of an advance of money in such
cases, but something must be done. If funds to the
amount of 150,000/, or 180,0001. were properly disposed
of in public works, much good might be done. One ad-
vantageous way of laying out the money would be to make
a road along the coast to this Barony of Erris. He would
suggest also the making of the river Moy navigable. Let
Government next year take the rent, and tithes too, to
secure themselves for this advance of money. All inte-
rests should yield to that of a starving people.
Mr. LAMBERT, as we understood, confirmed the
statement of his Hon. Friend.
Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON bore testimony to the
truth of the statement made by his Hon. Friend. He
hoped the Government would interfere. The distress was
as great in the county of Clare. He presented a petition
the other night which stated that there were then 3,000
persons in one part of the county who were starving, and
that the number must soon be increased. To the name of
the Marquis of Sligo he would add that of Sir R. O'Donnel,
who was prevented from the same cause from attending his
Parliamentary duties. The church property of Ireland
was originally intended for the relief of the people, and
means should be taken to employ it for that purpose. fie
hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would reconsider
that tax, which must fall very heavily upon the poor
labourers of Ireland. The object of it was not, be be-
lieved, to shut them out from this country. Let it be
imposed on the cabin passengers, but not on the pour crea-
tures who came here to get a living.
Mr. J. SMITH said he believed the distress in the
county of Clare to be excessive. They must not suffer the
people to starve. In 1730 there was a part of the county
of Tipperary suffering all the horrors of famine to his
knowledge. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would thin his attention to the poor of Ireland. He was
prepared to vote for a system of poor laws for that country.
Starvation was not an uncommon case there. If employ-
ment was given for the relief of the people, he hoped is
would not be made a job, as was too often the case in lre_
land. To that country they owed a great debt of gratitude,
Mr. STANLEY said, however inconvenient lie felt
this course to be, he should not be justified in suffering the
statement of his Hon. Friend to pass without observation.
He should be glad to have it in his power to say that the
statement was exaggerated, but he had not. In the ba•
rony of Erris, and of Tyrawley, the neighbouring barony,
distress prevailed little short of famine. He would not
pretend to deny that great distress did prevail in the
county of Galway, and of Clare also. He had a petition
from the barony of Tyrawley, which conveyed, in more
forcible terms than he could, though in plain language,
an idea of the state in which the people were. (The
Right Hon. Gentleman read a long extract from the pe-
tition, describing the distress and suffering of the people.
They stated that they formerly had a linen trade, which
was now gone ; that they were unacquainted with the
mode of rendering the ground most productive, and were
without capital to expend on it ; that they were most
willing and desirous to labour for the support of their fa-
milies, but could find no employment, and they humbly
recommended their case to the wisdom and consideration
of Parliament.) In this petition there was not one word
bordering on insubordination, not one expression of po-
litical discontent or hostility. Government was now

called upon to provide some remedy for this state of
wretchedness and suffering. He might appval to the
Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) whether any thing
could be more painful than to be placed in a situation where
one must hear of such complaints, and at the same time be
debarred, both by conscience and by principle, from ap-
plying the public money in the way of remedy. What
could Government do ? Could they prevent such occa.
signal distres in those districts, where, if that crop which
was the sole resource of the people failed, they must ne-

cessarily be driven t►► a state bordering on starvation. He
disapproved of any plan of relief to be effected by the
spoliation of the landlords. He must, however, express
his belief that a great portion of the distress now existing
was attributable to the landlords. They did not come
forward as they ought to have done. He had an account
of the rental of the barony of Erris, from which it ap-
peared that it amounted annually to 10,4001. The only
relief afforded by the landlords was a loan of 100/.
(Hear)—of this 701. was subscribed by non-residents,
and of this 701., 501. was subscribed by a constant non-re-
..

silent a gentleman living.iti the county of Kildare. These
matters he stated knowingly, and upon the best au-
thority. Government would not be justified, without in-
quiry, in having recourse to any measure to supply the de-
ficiency of local subscriptions. They accordingly de-
puted a gentleman to visit these districts which were

represented as being in such a state of misery. His
statement was that the local subscriptions were next
to nothing. He was happy to say that in Mayo
the conduct of the Noble Marquis before referred to
had been productive of the greatest benefit; but his per-
sonal presence had conferred a moral benefit, equal, if not
superior, to the private contributions from his purse. He
had advanced one thousand pounds for the purchase of flex,
which would afford considerable employment to the women
in the district in which he resided.—(Hear, hear.)—lf
this example were followed by the gentry in the various
parts of Ireland, there would be no necessity for appealing
to the charity of this country, which, if appealed to,
would, he was sure, not be so appealed to in vain.—(Hear,
hear. )—lt was not the duty of Government to bring for-
ward any measure of gratuitous relief for Ireland, al-
though if he were asked what the Government meant to
do, he would answer—to open the means of new industry
for the people; and in order to do so, that the Government
would make an advance of money for public works, upon
security being offered for its payment. On such a subject
it was necessary that every caution and discretion should
be used. However, this he could add, that Government
were most anxiously engaged in considering the details of
the measures for the relief of Ireland, as the only fair and
practical mode of meeting her present distress. The
baronies of Erris and Tyrawley afforded sufficient grounds
for immediate relief, and it would be improper at present
to say more.---( Hear, hear.)--He feared he had trespassed
too long already on the patience of the House—(Hear,
hear)—but he felt be would have been guilty of a dere-
liction of his duty if he had not thus frankly stated the
intentions of Government with respect to .the admitted
distress of certain parts of Ireland.
Sir R. PEEL said, from his experience of Irish affairs,
he could readily concur in the opinion that nothing was
more impossible than for this House to afford entire and
immediate relief to her general distress. The present Go-
vernment, like the former, had every disposition to relieve
and improve the condition of Ireland ; but to ask for a
public grant, without security for its repayment, could in
no degree relieve the present amount of distress; it would
rather.have a tendency to aggravate it. If the immediate
advance asked for were granted, he feared, as in former
instances, that it would cause a rise in the market prices
of different articles, and particularly so if it were once
considered that the Government were the purchasers of
provisions. There might, however, be such an over-
whelming necessity in particular cases, as that the silence
of Government with respect to their measures of relief
would cause great uneasiness, and therefore he was glad
that so much, and no more, of the plan intended by Go-
vernment, had been stated to that House. He had no
doubt that a proper sympathy for the sufferings of the
Irish people had called forth that statement; but
one thing was clear that no Government could take
upon themselves a task which individuals only could
properly perform. He had bad considerable experience
upon this subject, and upon that ground he would
leave the matter in the hands of Government, being
fully satisfied that if they should find it necessary to
appeal to Parliament for the adoption of measures which
a pressing necessity might demand, they would find such a
degree of sympathy in this country, such a degree of sym-
pathy in this House of Commons, which had been so much
calumniated and reviled—(Hear)—as to induce their at
once coming forward, anti relieving to their utmost ability
the distress of the sister country.—(Hear.) The caution
used by the Government as to their plans upon this sub-
ject was wise and prudent : it did not result from any cal-
culations of political economy or want of feeling, but from
the absoluta necessity of the case. He could not avoid ex-
pressing his surprise that the Nobility and Gentry of Ire-
land could see such distress around them as hat been stated
without at once affording all the relief in their power, and
also without calling upon the Government for that purpose.
He protested against any such tyrannical measures being
resorted to by the Hon. Member (Mr. D. Browne) as that
of withholding or mortgaging the rents and the tithes for
a whole year in order to relieve the poor.—(" No, no,"
from Mr. Browne.) To such a doctrine he (Sir R. Peel)
could never assent, and as an English gentleman he would
much rather lend his own funds for the relief of the poor,
than be any party to such a spoliation.—(Cheers.)
Mr. D. BROWNE said he never wished the landlords

-or."4,be elertzto be deprived of their rents or their tithes,
but thi poor should have a prior claim.
Sir R. PEEL explained.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that every thing which he had
heard from the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) met
with his concurrence. But the landlords in the two Ba-
ronies alluded to could not relieve the distress which existed
in the west of Ireland. The people of Naas were also in
the greatest distress, and partial relief, though useful, could
be of little general benefit to the Irish poor.
Mr. STANLEY, in explanation, said his observation
only applied to the circumstance that the greatest fear of
famine existed in the baronies to which allusion had been
made.

Mr. J. BURKE said that the distress of the landlords
in the western coast of Ireland was of such a nature, that
the landlords had it not in their power to relieve it. T..,
reduction of the duty on kelp, and the withdrawal of the
bounty upon the fisheries, were a coniderable cause of dis-
tress, and entitled the poor to the sympathies of Parlia-
ment. He felt much obliged to the Marquis of Anglesea
for the good example which he had set to the landlords of
Ireland, and he sincerely hoped it avould be widely fol-
lowed.—(Hear.) He was sure that advances of money by
the Government would do a vast deal of good, if they were
only to be made upo❑ the security of County Grand Juries
in Ireland.--( Hear. )
Sir J. NEWPORT, as far as we could hear him, observed
that rents in Ireland were so unequal that no adequate nava-
, sure of relief could be afforded by landlords t► their tenants.
Mr. WYSE said that a Government grant, by way of
gratuity, would be of little permanent advantage to Ireland.
The distress of the western coast of Ireland had been often
pressing and severe, but his object was that some perma-
nent relief should be afforded to Ireland. There was no
monument of good government upon the part of England
in the sister country, and the fault must either be in the
institutions of the country, or in the conduct of the land-
lords and their tenantry.—(Hear, hear.)—He considered
that the alteration in the currency had materially injured
Ireland, but unfortunately lie could see no remedy at pr e-
sent for it. The employment of the surplus labour of the
poor would be of essential benefit, and he had intended
himself to propose a distinct measure on the same subject.
The absentee landlords should he made to pay the Govern-
ment for those advances which they might feel it necessary
to make. He rejoiced that Ministers were determined to
commence a new era with Ireland, and thereby render
advantage to both countries. He wished to consummate
the Union, not to break it.—(Hear.)—He therefore re-
gretted the proposed tax upon steam-boats, because he did
not see why the Irish labourers should be denied the means
of obtaining employment in this count! y. At all events,
if the tax were laid on, let the rich absentees be made to
pay it.—(Hear.)
An Hort. MEstneß, whose name we did not hear, said
he had listened with great attention to the debate, but he
was surprised that so one had yet proposed a poor-tate for
the relief of Ireland. No other measure could be of real
utility to that country; and, if it were proposed, it should
have his decided support.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD said it was a matter of diffi-
culty and danger for the Government to interfere in these
subjects of local distress in Ireland. He had said so pri-
vately, and he would be ashamed if he did not publicly
say the same. On former occasions the interposition of
Government had greatly enhanced the distress of Ireland
by the rise of prices in the different markets; and if the
Government now interfered, they should have security
from the landed proprietors in the different districts to be
' relieved. If that were not the case, the advances would
fail of their just effect, however well intended they might
be in the first instance. It was the duty as well as the
interest of proprietors in Ireland to see to the proper dis-
tribution of any funds that might be entrusted to their
care.—(Hear.) . .
Mr. SADLER maintained that no partial measure
would remedy evils of such a nature and of a recurrence so
frequent. It was the duty of a wise and provident Go-,
verntnent to anticipate evils of such an incessant recur-
rence, by establishing a system of poor laws which hid ,
been recommended in every other country of Europe.—
Galway and Mayo were two of the least peopled districts
of Ireland, and yet it was there that distress was the most ,
severely felt. The proportion of land to individuals was
as 20 acres to each person, and yet distress was constant
and general. Absenteeism, he believed, was one of the
greatest causes of the distress.
_ _ .

Mr. SLANEY begged to remind the Hon. Member who
had just sat down, that population was not dense, nor the
reverse, in proportion to square acres, but in the ratio of
capital, and to the nature of the soil.
Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS, before the Speaker left the
chair, would impress upon his Majesty's Ministers the ne-
cessity of taking into their serious consideration the dis-
tressed state of tie West India interests.

An HON. MEMBER, put a question to the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, which the Noble Lord answered, hut from
the extremely confused state of the gallery, it was impos-
sible to ascertai❑ even the object of the inquiry, or the
nature of the reply.