The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-01 00:00:00

10 USE' OF COMMONS, FERRUAXY 28.

The Gallery was not opened this day until Four
o'clock, in consequetwo of there being an order for a call
of the House. The call, however, we understand, was
not proctkded with. The House was crowded in every
part.

Mr. O'CONNELL, in presenting several petitions, said
he would take that opportunity of asking the Right
Honourable Secretary for trelind a question in reference
to the late prosecutions against him.—(Hear.) He wished
to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman if he had stated that
some person applied to him on his (Mr. O'Connell's) be-
half, to compromise the prosecutions, and if such were the
facts, he wished further to ask the name of the party, for
he most distinctly denied giving authority to any person so
to do. He therefore expected that the Right Hon. Se-
cretary would give a distinct answer 'to the questions.
Mr. STANLEY said applications had been made to
him in writing by the Earl of Glengall and Mr. Bennett,
of Leith, the latter of whom stated that he was requested
to make the application by Mr. Maurice O'Connell, and
Mr. Maurice O'C,Onnell said he was authorised to make
such a request by his fathei.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL—The questions had been an-
swered to hie satisfaction. He admitted that, in the month
of January last, Mr. Bennett did make him a proposal,
calling upon him to submit to certain terms, which were
to be dictated to him by the Government, but he positively
refused to do so, and on Feb. 5, wrote him a letter, not
only declining, but forbidding all further mention of the
subject. He immediately afterwards addressed a letter to
his son-in-law, informing him of the determinatien he had
come to, and that gentleman it was who, unauthorised by
him (Mr. O'Connell,) had submitted to the Government
the document to which the Right Hon. Gentleman now
referred. The Hon. and Learned Member then read the
letter of his son-in-law on the subject. It went on to re-
present the Honourable and Learned Member as having
stated that he had been so often deceived and deluded by
the present Government that he placed no confidence what-
ever in its promises, and, therefore, wished to see its per-
formances, while, in the meantime, he called for "a with-
drawal of the prosecution in a manful way, without any
equivocation."—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial
benches.) He (Mr. O'Connell) knew not the meaning of
those cheers; be had offered no compromise; for even if
the proposition had come from him, still the withdrawal
of the prosecution could not be regarded in that light. The
letter further stated that the preliminary step to any ar-
rangement must be the withdrawal of the prosecution ; and
the writer added, " my father says his advice is every thing
fur Ireland, nothing for ine."—( Hear. ) He (Mr. O'Connell)
had always looked upon the repeal of the Union as the
end, and not as the means of promoting the interests
of Ireland ; anti he still professed himself ready to give up
that measure if Government would undertake to adopt
pans of solid and substantial amelioration for that country.
How could he possibly be charged with offering to make
any compromise, when the very first condition insisted
upon was, that the prosecution should be wholly aban-
doned ? The Hon. and Learned Gentlemen next read
the letter of his son (Mr. Maurice O'Connell), one passage
of which stated that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
" twice made a bridge of gold for Lord Anglesea to pass
over ;" but that he must now see acts performed before
he did any thing more. What he (Mr. O'Connell) was
now prepared to say was, that neither had the Govern-
ment entered into any compromise with him nor he with
the Government.—(Hear hear.) He had obtained no-
thing from the Government, and given up nothing.
But though no compromise had been entered into, still
a sort of voluntary arrangement took place, which.
however, had not emanated from the Attorney- General
of the Crown. He would now state the nature of that
arrangement. The indictment against him contained
31 counts, the first 14 of which were under a particular
statute. The first 14 counts charged him with evading
the proclamations of the Lord Lieutenant. The other
seventeen charged him with offences at common law.
They charged him with sedition, moral turpitude, and
wishing to bring the Government of the country
into contempt. Now he would say that these 31 counts
formed two distinct indictments ; the first part of which,
he meant the first 14. counts of the indictment, charged
hint with an offence againt the Statute only; the second,
or remaining 17 counts, charged him with sedition.
Now, how did the case stand ? Why, he pleaded guilty
to the first fourteen counts, and the Government had
withdrawn the others, and by so doing they admitted that
he was not guilty of sedition. He had made no conces-
sion.—(Hear, hear.)—lt was true the Government
might call him up for judgment on the first day
of next term, if they should think prudent so
to do, but if they did so they would have no right
to go on, until he had obtained the judgment of
the twelve Judges of Ireland on the writ of error which the
Attorney-General bad been obliged to allow, and then if that
decision should be against him, he could appeal to the
House of Lords; and before their judgment could be obtained
no sentence of the law could be executed against him. It
had also been said that he had made stipulations
respecting punishment. He could boldly assert, without
the least fear of contradiction, that no such thing ever
took place. If, however, he had acted wrongly, he alone
ought to be punished, for the other seven gentlemen in-
cluded with him in the indictment being no lawyers had
left their cases entirely in his hands. Therefore he
alone ought to be punished.—(Hear.) That part of the
indictment which charged him with sedition had been
given up, but in doing so, he would contend Government
had given up nothing. They never could have substan-
tiated the charge. If he had gone to trial on the first
fourteen counts and been convicted, he still should have bad
the same appeal to the people as he before mentioned. But
be bad preferred pleading guilty, he would tell
the House his honest reasons for so doing. The excite-
ment which would have been created by the trial would
have been such that the streets of Dublin would have been
thronged, the trades would have been out with their
banners, the shops would have been closed, thousands
would have come to his house and accompanied him in
procession to and from the Court, and the population of
all the adjoining counties would have been pouring into the
capital, and as the trial no doubt would have lasted
five or six days, he felt anxious to avoid such
a eauss of excitement.—(He tr.) The e were his honest
reasons, and notwithstanding all that he felt for the
amelioration of Ireland, notwithstanding all the trouble
be had taken for the amelioration of that country, he
would sacrifice all, rather than purchase it by the shedding
of one single drop of human blood.
A stranger in the gallery, with an orange sash over his
shoulders, here called out in a most stentorian voice,
" It's a lie, it's a lie." He was immediately taken into
custody by two of the officers of the House. During this
proceeding great excitement prevailed, in the midst of
which Mr. O'Connell sat down. As soon as order was
restored,

Mr. O'CONNELL proceeded. He would repeat that
the reasons he bad stated, were his only objects in plead-
ing guilty.
Mr. STANLEY thought that his statement on a
former occasion, respecting the non-compromise on the
part of the Government, had now been fully borne out by
the satement of the Hon. Member for Waterford. As to
the indictments, he (Mr. S.) was not lawyer enough to
enter into a discussion upon their technicalities, but the
Hon. Member oppesite conceiving that the Government were
wrong in the first 14 counts, demurred to them on that
ground ; then, finding out his error, he thought proper
to withdraw the demurrer, saving that he should go
upon the fact. Before, however, his plea of not guilty
under the demurrer in point of law could be discussed,
he withdrew his plea of not guilty as to the fact, and
judgment was obtained against him for a misdemeanour.
Judgment baying been thus obtained against him, and the
extent of that judgment being in the discretion of the
Court, the Crown bad gained all it wished, and
felt.that by not proceeding further the Government would
avoid what they wished to avoid, the appearance of poli-
tical Paseention. The Hon. Member had said that the
reason for shrinking from his trial before a Jury was his
unwillingness to create agitation in Ireland.--( Hear.) Was
glen ea individual h be found in Ireland, in London,

or in the world, who 61 ever heard or read a word of
the declamatory speeches and letters that bad been cir-
culated by the Hon. Member throught Ireland who would
&sive him an atom of credit for saying he did not
wish to agitate Ireland.—(Loud cheering.) The Hon.
Member, with all his extraordinary anxiety that the
public should not be the least etched, with the earns
breath then told the Route he was afraid of the conduct
of the people—the very people whom he himself had ex-
cited.—(Hear.) He (Mr. S.) had 3 considerable number
of the lion. Member's inflammatory speeches before him,
parts of which he should take the liberty of troubling the
House with; every one of which were only calculated to ex-
cite and exasperate the lowest and most illiterate persons to
be found in Ireland. The lion. Member had said hi
one of these speeches, that in Ireland .lone wits slavery
still predominant; but he hoped to see the day when she
should be flee, and though that time might be distant, it
would be the more secure, and the triumph would be with
greater certainty bloodless. He had alluded also to the
people of Belgium, Switzerland, France, and Poland; but
could any body believe that his allusion to them was for
any other purpose than that of holding their conduct up
to Ireland as an example for her ?—(Loud cheers.) Was
this the mode in which the legislative union between
the two countries was to be dissolved ? He (Mr. Stan-
ley) did not know what the Hun. Member thought, but
he certainly confessed that he did not by any means
envy him his feelings, when he could stand up in that'
House, and declare he Was a'raid of the excitement in
Ireland which his own conduct had occasioned. He
aheuld not enter much further into details on the
present occasion. Whenever the Learned and Hon. Member
should think fit to carry into effect the threats he had made
of bringing his conduct more formally before the
House, either before or after the time when be (Mr.
Stanley) should, as the Hon. Member for Water-
ford had been kind enough to tell the population
of Dublin, stand like another Polignac, with
uplifted hand at the bar of that House, and when
there should be a Reform in Parliament, which he most
sincerely hoped- in one little week, or a very short
time more there would be, he (Mr. S.) should be per-
fectly prepared to meet him. Before be sat down, he
begged to say a wind respecting the hurlers of Kil-
kenny. The Honourable Member had invited them,
if they had a vote, not only to vote for the return
of his friend, but ' urged them to use all their
influence in returniug that friend—if they had any influ-
ence..—(Laughter.) Who were the individuals called
hurlers? They were a set of persons whom the Hon.
Member opposite himself had declined to meet, persons act-
ing illegally, and contrary in every respect to the law of the
country; and yet the Hon. Member was the very man
who bad solicited and invited them to come forward and
assist in :the return of his friend. He was sorry to
have detained the House so long, but he felt called
upon to state thus much, in consequence of the Hon.
Member having made a flourish of his anxiety for the
preservation of the peace of Ireland.
The SPEAKER said that before the House proceeded
further, it was his duty to inform the House that the per-
son who bad committed the outrage was now in the cus-
tody of the Sergeant at Arms.
Mr. O'CONNELL rose and said, in referring to the
speech which had been just made by the Right Hon.
Gentleman, he should be excused in trespassing upon the
House :—a speech self-assured in its mode, and he (Mr.
O'Connell) thought utterly destitute of any rational foun-
dation in argument.—(Hear.)—The Right Hon. Gentle-
man need not be told that the second indictment, or 17
last counts, charged conspiracy and fraud upon Govern-
ment. This was a charge amounting to a moral guilt,
but the first 14 counts only charged the violation of a
Statute. The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken a great
deal about his (Mr. O'Connell's) denying that he had been
in favour of agitation. Now be begged to assert that he
never asserted any such thing, but just the reverse. What
was it but agitation that was about obtaining Reform of
Parliament in England.—(Hear.)—And it was by agita-
tion that he wished to see the repeal of the Union effected.
It was solely by agitation that the great question, the Ca-
tholic question, was carried. He trusted that by agita-
tion the repeal of the Union would he effected. With re-
spect to what he would call the unconstitutional letter of
the Right Hon. Secretary, addressed to the Magistrates
of Ireland, he should, on some future occasion, bring the
subject before the House, should there be a Reform in the
House of Commons—a letter, of the composition of which,
in point of matter and in point of grammar, he would not
now say one word. The letter called upon the Magis-
trates to disperse meetings which were never, in point of
fact, held. He would accuse the Right Hon. Gentle-
man of causing agitation and excitement in the course
he bad taken ; but he (Mr. O'Connell) was anxious,
most anxious, to avoid a crisis. When he heard
of the great events which had occurred in Belgium--
when be heard of the movements which had taken
place in Poland—and would that, by the morrow's sun,
an account of a glorious victory obtained by that
brave people over their despot may reach England—(Hear)
—when lie learnt what bad transpired in Switzerland, he
felt, in calling the attention of his enslaved countrymen to
those glorious events, he was only doing that in which he
was fully justifi d. If the good people of England would
take his advice—(Loud laughter)—yes, he would repeat
the phrase, if the good people of England would take hie
advice, they would avoid violence, they would avoid a
crisis. Ile felt that he stood in that House, notwithstand-
ing what the Right Hon. Gentleman had asserted, tri-
umphant.—(Laughter. )—Let Hon. Members laugh if they
please, but he was triumphant. Had the Right Hon.
Gentleman shown that those who had assembled to agi-
tate the question of the Union were guilty of one particle of
violence ? Had he shown that a single assault had been
committed, or that the law in any one respect had been
disregarded ? There was, he would admit, great excite-
ment, there was great agitation, but not one single breach
of the peace. Alter these facts, had he not a right to
assert that he stood there triumphant?—(Hear. and a
laugh. )—Having stated what had not taken place when
the people assembled to discuss the repeal of the Uniou,
but which the Government would not allow, having
shown what he load not done, he would now proceed to
state what had occurred. He understood the laugh and
the taunted cheer, which was something bordering upon
insult, that occasionally met his assertions, but he was not
to be deterred from his course. The House would proba-
bly recollect that the present Lord-Lieutenant was re-
ceived in Dublin by an assemblage of persons. He (Mr.
O'Connell) did not see the procession, but he understood it
was a miserable exhibition. It was proposed that the
trades of Dublin should meet, and preparations for that
purpose were made ; but the Lord Lieutenant, with the
Act of Parliament at hand, forbad the trades from meet-
ing, and he was obeyed—
" Hoc volo, sic jubeo, sit pro ratione voluntas."
Why was this meeting prevented? Why did the Lord
Lieutenant interpose and declare that the loyal tradesmen
of Dublin should not assemble ? What injury to the city
was meditated ? Well, the trades gave up the meeting,
and 100,000 persons who had assembled opposite his house
separated, on his requesting them to do so, with as much
decorum as the House of Commons itself separated. He
would, however, maintain that Parliament, in passing
that Act, which empowered one man to prevent an as-
sembly from discussing measures which they deemed essen-
tial, was an act of despotism. He called upon the Eng-
lish gentlemen to aid him in obtaining freedom from such
oppression for his fellow countrymen, and if they were
like their sires of old, who would have sacrificed their lives
in the cause of liberty, he should not invoke their assist-
ance in vain. The last Administration, he must declare,
was infinitely better for Ireland than the present. The late
Government of Ireland canoe forward with no prosecution
of the kind with which be hail been attacked. The Anti-
Catholic Ministers did not think proper to have recourse
to such an Act of Parliament, but it was reserved for
the Whigs. It was reserved for my Lord Anglesea to
issue his proclamations. Ile first discharged a procla-
mation against the trades ; then he discharged a second
against the public breakfasts. People were not to assemble
to take tea and coffee, lest they should be guilty of agi-
tation. After dinner they might possibly be excited,
but, after breakfast, no such apprehension could be en-
tertained. He would again assert, that the letter of the
Right Hon. Gentleman was an illegal and unconstitu-
tional composition, and he should bring it before the
consideration of the House. The Hon. Member then
proceeded to justify the course he had taken in address-
ing the letters alluded to to the population of Kilkenny
ptHiaoerntwasoe
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ai
ann
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uitenh
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selves in favour of a repeal of the Union, and that the
feeling was spreading around, especially in the counties of
Carlow and Wexford. He therefore addressed a letter to
them, cautioning them against meeting for political pur-
poses—telling them that although the meetings were not
illegal in themselves, they would become so were they to
meet for those purposes which he had named. He admitted
having called upon the freeholders of Kilkenny to use
their " influence" for Colonel Butler. He had said snore
—he had told them that Colonel Butler's expenses of elec-
tion must be paid. The Hon. Gentleman next noticed
the next proclamation which had been issued, and begged
to ask whether the law of libel was not sufficiently
strong, without having recourse to such an Act of Parlia-
ment as that which he had denounced ? At all the meet-
ings which he had attended, two persons on behalf of Go-