The Sun.
London, England, 1825-02-11 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The Earl of NEWPORT moved for a N2w Writ for the
Borough of Newport (Ile Of Wight), in cmsequence of the
decease of Sir Leonard Holmes.—Ordered.

OIL GAS

Mr. PLUNKETT.obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the
better lighting the Cities of London and. Westminster with Oil
Gas. •

ASSESSED TAXES,

Mr. DICKENSON presented a Petition from the Borough
of Wells, praying a repeal of the House and Window Tax.—
Ordered to lie on the table.

ILLEGAL ASSOCIA TIONq.

Mr. MAXWELL presented a Petition from the County of
Cavan, praying for the suppression of Illegal Associations in
Ireland.—Ordered to lie on, the table.
GA 31R LAWS.

Mr. STUART WORTLEY gave notice of a motion for
his day se'nnight, for the.amend•nent of the Game Laws.
cArruoLic ASSOCIATION.

Mr. H.- DAVIS presented a petition from the parish of St.
John the Baptist, Bristol, praying that there might be no fur.
:her concessions made to the Catholics.
TOBACCO AND SNUFF.

Mr. H. DAVIS presented a pct. i m frcrn Bristol, praying a
reduction of the duties on Tobacco and SnufE—Ordered to lie on
the table.

ASSESSED TAXES.

Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a Petition from Bath.
brick;- Somerset, praying for the repeal of the House and Win
dow Tax—Ordered to be printed. .
CATHOLIC AS'.OOIATLON.
-Sir GEORGE HILL presented a Petition from London.
derry, praying forthe suppression of the Catholic Association..
- He would reserve any observations he might have to offer upon
these Associations for another period. The petition set forth
that the :Association sought to alienate the affections of the Irish
people from the constituted authorities. It was signed by 29
of the Irish Clergy, 30 Magistrates, and (i4O inhabitants. The
Hon. Member would explain to the House the manner in which
this petition had been brought forward. A schoolmaster had
raised a subscription in Londonderry, the funds of which it was
discovered were applied to the Catholic Bent. In consequenct
of this public act, a requisition was signed, and a meeting held
on the 12th of January, when the petition before the House
was framed.

Mr. ABE RCROMBY said, perhaps the Right Honourable
Baronet could favour the House with a tolerably accurate re-
port of the.speeches made at this meeting.—Ordered to lie on
the table.

Mr. G. DAWSON presented .a similar petition from the
county of Londonderry, signed by 1,700 freeholders. The
Honourable illember.said the petitioners had abstained from
offering before-arty-Petitiori to the House, for the- purpose of
avoiding what might be considered an act of hostility ; but the.
Catholic body was the first to throw down the gauntlet. They
now came forward to deny what had been boldly, falsely, and
impudently asserted—that the Protestants of Ireland were fa-
vourable to the measures of the Catholic Association. The
petitioners were decidedly opposed to any further concessions to
the Catholics.

Sir 11. PARNELL said, the Hon. Gentleman had thought
proper to assert that nine-tenths of the Irish population were op.
posed to the claims of the Catholics ; he, however, could re-
verse the position as regarded the feelings of the majority, when
he iniOrmed the House that at least two-thirds of the Irish had
taken active part with the associated body.—(Hear, hear!)
Mr. A BERCR(MI3Y could state to the House, that on one
occasion a requisition was presented to the Sheriff of the county
of Waterford, signed by Protestants inclined to favour the Ca,
tholic claims, and that individual refused to call a meeting.
%Jr. I). BROWNE said, the only permanent foundation of
the peace of Ireland would be found in the total extinction of
all religious distinction.
The petition was ordered to lie on the table.
COAL DUTIES.

Sir.T. ACLAND presented a petition from South Moulton,
Devonshire, fbr the repeal of the sea-port coal duties.—Ordered
to lie on the table.

Col. DA VIS gave notice, that on Tuesday, the Bth of March,
he:would move for leave to bring in a Bill for the repeal of du-
ties on various exciseable articles.

COAST OF AFRIC 1.
Mr. HUME rose for the purpose of inquiring of the Right
Hon. Secretary for the Foreign Department, whether he in-
tended to lay before the House any papers relating to recent
occurrences on the coast of Africa.

Mr. Secretary CANNING replied, that the business re-
ferred to did not come immediately under his observation, and
he was not aware that it was in contemplation to lay any papers
of such a nature before the House.
CHANCERY COMMISSION.

Mr. WILLIAMS, seeing the Right Honourable the Secre-
tary for the Home Department in his place, would take this op-
portunity of asking him if he would inform the House when it
was intended to lay a report of the Committee before them.

Mr. Secretary I'EEI; replied, that there were others, per-
haps, who could give the Hon. Member more information on
this subject than himself. The Hon. Gentleman's interrogatory
would probably be answered if he were to address it to some
Member of the Committee.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, he apprehended the
Committee would, in a tew days, give a partial report.—(A
laugh.)

ASSOCIATION 6 IN IRELAND.

Mr. GOULBURN said he rose, pursuant to a notice which
he had given a few days back, to move for leave to bring in
a Bill to amend the laws relative to unlawful Societies in Ire-
land. In doing so he could not but express his regret that cir-
cumstances should have occurred to impose on him so painful a
duty. 'Towards the close of last Session he took occasion to
state to the House, that he hoped the measures which had been
adopted by- Parliament, and the mode in which they were car'.
tied into elect by the Irish Government—chat the resistance
given to all proceedings tending to perpetuate discord or pro-
duce disorder, and the impartial manner in which the laws
were administered to all ranks and denominations of his, Ma-
jesty's subjects in that country, would be found sufficient to
preserve it steadily in the march of general improvement. He
now regretted to be obliged to say, that circumstances had
since arisen to interrupt the peace and prosperity of Ireland. He
could not conceal from the House—indeed the House was itself
aware of the fact—that although. the outrages which prevailed
at one period over a considerable extent of Ireland had given
way to the laws enacted for their suppression—that although
• the condition of the poor had been greatly ameliorated, and in
a fair course of advancement, that although trade had greatly im-
proved,and new sources of industry and wealth had grown up_
that although all classes of the people enjoyed at present ease and
comforts to which they had hitherto been strangers—yet, not-
withstanding these auspicious indications of fature prosperity,
a Body had sprung forth calling itself the Catholic Association
which was destructive of all order and good government, and
inconsistent _with the principles of the Constitution. . The
House was aware that last Session Ministers were called upon
to interfere and suppress that Body ; but, with a forbearance
which ought to have inspired better feelings and better con.-
duct th„ti had Aince been exemplified, Government declined to
interpose its power. However alarming some of the proceed-
ings of the Association might then seem, they were so dashed
with those which were ridiculous that it was hoped the evil
could not long survive. Since that time the, character of that
Body had materially changed, and it was now not only calcu-
lated to create alarm and dis May, but every
.honest man,. he

PRICE SEVENPENCP.

thought, must confess also, calculated to impede the
perity of the empire and to produce and foster public
content. The Bill which he should now introduce pith t.e
view of resisting the evil in question, went to amend two ;Vote,
one passed by the Irish Parliament in 1793, and railed -th,e
Convention Act, the other passed the year before last, ter
putting down secret societies hi Ireland. Although these
related to different objects, they were bOth applicable to
the present-state of the sister eountrp It was well knee,
that. the Act passed in .1793, was intended- to prohibit ell
assemblies either representing-or affecting to represent f.e
public generally, or any class ,of the people. But it net;
not, because danger was apprehended from lteprsetee-
' tive Bodies only that the above Act was passed, but be-
cause all _bodies then existing of an' alarming character we
of that nature. • Up to 1793, all assemblies which had met ia
Ireland were representative, and the particular one which
was Tidied by the Convention Act was so *likewise,
presentation, therefore, was only a distinguishing; fe'.4•ture o:'
the general evil which it was proposed to redress, and
not the test by which the Government 'of that period pr,.
ceeded. If the House attended to the R(...solutions •adoptc:l
in the Irish 'Legislature previous to the passing of time law,
would find that representation was only one characteristic cr
the bodies it wished to suppress./the lrish House of Lord
particularly, it was stated that the object was to put down-self .
created assemblies taking. upon themselves to interfere with th,t
prerogatives of Parl iamentond levy surns.of money on t ;NW::
subjects. It was not, therefore, rePresentatiOn which gave the
character of danger to the assemblies then cOntemphced, and
the debates of that era show that the .3ctrwas directed svainsc
self-created societies exciting alarm, and tending to distill b the
peace of the country, Parliament had now to deal with an Asso-
ciation formed expressly to evade the law—an association awar.
I that the p ovisions of the existing law-only extended to roprese I-
tative bodies, and which therefore claimed to itself the. privilege
of not being a representative assembly, but one formed and
mait taine:l on independent grounds. It had, however, been ad-
mitted a few evenings back by the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
Man °Kosice (Mr. Brougham), that the Catholic Association
" virtually represented" the Catholics of Ireland, and there
was no testimony on a matter of this sort which he Goul-
burn) would prefer to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's. He
would ask, then, Was there not as goad ground to suppresa a
body " Virtually" representing, as a body actually representing
the Catholics ?—and whether a body was to be tolerated whict
did that virtually which the law prevented it from doing actes
ally ? If the Catholic Association technically evaded the ob-
ject of Parliament, the latter was bound to keep pace with the
ingenuity thus. employed, and to meet the artifice which had
been resorted to. Surely it would not be Contended that any
society should be allowed to effect that virtually which it w
prohibited frinn effecting actually ? If he (Mr. Gm ulburr )
wire to virtually calumniate any Gentleman oppaNite, he
should think himself more culpable than if he had openly done
so, for he' should have to add the shame of the subterfogv-
the guilt of thg act. But putting represmtation aside,, he
was prepared to 'ground hiS motion on .the nature and constitu-
tion of the bodies with which the horse bad nOte to deal. lie
trusted, however, he might indulge the hope that die necessity'
for adopting the present- measure would be short lived, and
its operation equally temporary. He hail already intimated
that he should first draw attention .to the Catholic Association.
In entering upon that subject, he Was afraid. he should ap-
pear fatiguing ; for it had been the boast of the Body alluded
to, that all its acts were public.—(Hear, hear !).—lt had been
its object to disseminate its proceedings in every possible
channel of publicity.. 'lie therefore felt the difficulty of stating;
any thing to the House which had not been known to it before.
(Hear, hear!)-The Catholic AssociatiOn was formed in the
May f 1823. To his present purpose, the objects with which
it professed to set out were matters of comparative Indifference.
Whether it assembled as was declared, solely to aid in prom.,
ing Catholic Emancipation, and" the redress of what were
termed other grievances affecting that Body—or whether, as
some of its Members asserted, the object was to obtain a 'Re-
form of Parliament, a repeal of the Union, and the ultimate
Separation of the country froM England, he should not now
dwell on. Were the objects perfectly inoffensive, that would
trot shield from the consequences of the injurious means that
might be employed in effecting them. Were. they not, it' was
not worth quarrelling' With the Catholics, beeause they had ex-
actly done what they assembled to do. In abstaining, too,
from any particular observations on the speeches of individuals
in the debates of that assembly, he was willing to allow
that persons in popular meetings were apt to be led away
by ardour of momentary incitement to transgress the bounds
of discretion. lie should likewise ab.itain from those de-
bates, because it was on the whole tone and . teileur of'- the
proceedings of the Association_(Hear, hear !)--that he should
rest his motion. As lie had already stated, he was willing to
admit that in public. assemblies much latitude of language must
be tolerated; lie did not think, howeVer, that the speakers of the:'
Catholic Association 'could claim any indulgence on that score.
In it there was none of that opposition which was at once- the
cause and the excuse for intemperance. The great source of
mischief then was the absence of all opposition—(Hear!)—The
Members were all perfectly agreed on every topic and if any
individual dated to offer an opinion at Variance with the gene-
ral feeling of the meeting, his reception was such as to'deter
every other man from following the example.. .Nex t ;. in con-
sidering the constitution of that Body, not the least alarming
feature was its indefiniteness. Other Bodies not elected, might
still be under some controul. But when either being a member .
or not being a member, depended upon a person's own will ;
and when the numter f members was unliMited, all checks
operating upon tither societies were withdrawn. He was Also
obliged to acknowledge that the Association comprised a. great
proportion of the Catholic hierarchy—a class of persons that ,On
the present occasion he was more dispoied to speak of in sorrow
than in anger—for it was painful to find those whose duty di-
rected them to inculcate the meek spirit of Christianity into
their flocks, and-to impact to them religious and moral instrtic--
tion, not only taking a part in the political objects of the AS'-
sociation, but using their powers in extending its influence.
The- next class comprised in that Body were well known for
years to every one who had attended to Irish affairs; they were
persons of disappointed hopes, or angry dispositions and un-
governable ambition, who had at all times been the advocate§
either of real or imaginary sufferers, their business had been to
inflame the minds.of the people—to teach them to place no re:..
Lance on the laws—and to prove to them that they were enduring
every description of oppression. The union of these individuals
with the other Members of the Association was of itself well cal-
culated to eiecite alarm. But to those were to be added all the
survivers of ;it: Catholic Committee of 1793, to put down which
the Convention Act had been passed, and also ninny persons :not
unknown to that House—persons long familiar with plots and
treasons— with the plots and treasons of olden times—the asso-
ciates of Tone, of Russell, and of EmMet—men who had openly
arrayed themselves in mad defiance to the Laws and Government
of the Country, and who were identified with the desperate ob-
jects and acts of those days. This was a part of the subject,
however, on which he had no inclination to enlarge. lie must
next observe, than there.was certainly a euneiderahle portion of
the Catholic Nobility and Gentry also connected with the As..
sociation.—( Hear, hear, 'hear !)—He was disposed to speak
fairly, and he broadly stated that fact. It was impossible at
the same time not to perceive that many of the Catholic Aris_.
tocracy and Gentry had been involuntarily placed in that situa-
tion. He would indeed assert that the great proportions of
those classes viewed the conduct of the Catholic Association
with as much dread and horror as any other part of the commu-
nity. But it was well known these men might be found' to
swell the, numbers of any Society, and from their characters to

.... .. ....,......., ,„
confer importance on it, without being able to direct its march;
It was known that neither virtue, rank, nor talent, held the as-
cendancy in such assemblies, but that whoever pandered to the
passions of the multitude was raised to the dignity of a leader.
Yet the junction of so much rank and merit gave a wei;..ilit to the
Association which made it the more formidable and the inure
deserving of suppression. Could the I-louse either forget that
while
it Catholics had adopted the very forms of Parliament,
it opposed and spurned its authority. At the beginningoniniittee of
of •
its
h
Session general Committees were appointed—
a C
Grievances— a Committee of Justice—a Committee
tion—(Hear !)—and all the ground that Parliament had refused
of Eduee-
s,vsincumbent on
the Association to perform the duty.
to attend to these subjects, and therefore it
13'
whichei was for examinkng
likewise particular Committees,one ot general there were
,
e copied almost verbatim.
orders of the Association were
likewise
; and, "Sir," (continued
from the rules and orders ofParliaine
addressing the Speaker), "if that
Mr. Goulburn, and pointe‘dly
"of its members to office similar to
facts before they were submitted to the, public. The, rules and
Lolly haw riot
that which you . been
able to find an individual i willing to accept it under the Penalty
tly silent." Although the Association b
of being permanen
the Catholic 0 vf..
ously exercised great power over population,• it
fill in this House, it is because. it has not
.its through the
- -
method of authority
• , • -
took a peculiar

seceintey. it was in the habit of calling what were termed aggre
gate meetings, and which were held to express the sense of the
Catholies of Ireland. These meetings were convened at re-
gular intervals ; and resolutions were passed approving and
sanctioning every thing which the Association had done. I,
therefore, the Associaton was not avowedly the representative
of the Catholics, it took care to act for them first, and to
obtain their approval afterwards. But what were those
meetings ? They consisted principally of the Members of the
Association, and the persons who spoke loudest and longest
at them, and who passed the joggle off on the people were
the orators of the Association, who merely expressed and'
had proclaimed self-gratulatory compliments upon their own.
eloquence, and their own conduct. It was next his (Mr. Goulo
burn) duty to call the attention of .the House to some of the
leading acts of that Society. There was first, under the
guise of voluntary contributions, a levy on the public called-
" Catholic Rent," which, besides implying a power and right
only lodged in the Legislature, was an onerous and grievous tax
on the people of Ireland. No one could deny but the rent was
a levy of money from his Majesty's subjects for objects not
previously defined, but such as it might subsequently be ad-
visable to pursue. The system however by which that tax was
collected was more obnoxious than the tax itself. There were'
officers and inferior officers all depending on one another, and
exhibiting an organization more dangerous than any purpose
to which the fund could be applied. When a sum was to
be raised, an order to that effect emanated from the Society
at large, specific in every respect but in the amount to be
raised. The mandate was issued to the Priest of each parish,
who, by the same authority, was appointed Treasurer of the
Rent. Instructions were also furnished him at the same time,
and books, in which the contributions received, and other
circumstances were to be carefully noted. On receipt of
that mandate, the Priest announced from the Chapel—from
the Altar—informing the congregation of the object to be
effected, and calling upon individuals to take the office of col-
lectors. Nor had instances been wanted, when persons who re-
fused to act as collectors on that mandate, had been publicly
censured by the priests, and held up in the chapel among their
friends and neighbours as unworthy of all confidence or regard.
—( H ear, hear !)—it was further a part of the duty of the priest
to insert, or cause to be inserted in the books transmitted to
him, the name of each contributor, and the amount of his con-
tribution, that both might be recorded in the archives of the
Association. There were other books in which the names of
those who did not contribute were registered, and a report
made to the Association accordingly, that such persons might
be handed down to posterity, with a suitable share of obloquy
and odium.—( Hear, hear, hear !),--But the Association went
still further. Some Gentlemen who had thought it a griev-
ance on their tenantry to be compelled thus to tax themselves—
who saw with pain and regret a miserable peasanty suffering
want and penury, and unable to give their children the meanest
• education, mulcted of a part of their heed earnings—advised
the people not to pay the Catholic Rent." The consequence
was that the Catholic Association was filled with letters from
the: Priests in those districts, denouncing and holding up to
scorn and-reprobation—he (Mr. Goulburn) would not say to
vengeance—the gentlemen who had so interfered.—(Hear !)
liere no definite object was assigned for the application of
the money so raised, so torn from the people.—(Elear, hear,
- from the Opposition Benches)—Gentlemen who doubted the
cruelty and force of the exaction were not perhaps aware of the
power which the Catholic Priests exercised over their flocks. As
lied lately been mentioned in that House they assumed the au-
thority of absolving from sin, and of abstaining from affording
absolution. Could it be Imagined then that in addressing a low
and ignorant peasantry, and in applying, if not the authority at
least the influence of the priestly office, in extorting contribu-
tions from the poor—could it be said that the payment did not
proceed from compulsion—was not torn from those unable to
spare it ?--( Hear, hear !)—He (Mr. Goulburn)would now tres-
pass on the House while he adverted to the application of the
money thus collected. To some parts of the application he did
not offer any objection. The Catholic Association might give
briefs to certain Barristers to defend the Catholics,or theymight
appoint an Agent in London to superintend their English affairs.
'These proceedings he should not impugn, whatever he might
think of their discretion. Neither should he make theintere
Terence of the Association with the Liberty of the Press any;
ground of charge against a body who set up a claim to
tiberality of sentiment on the part of others as well as it-
self. He should say nothing of the very considerable part
of the press which the Association had retained as its ad-
vocates, nor of the other part of the press which it had deter
mined to persecute—nor of its union with Mr. Cobbett, and the
sums expended in disseminating his writings throughout the
country. It was not, however, because lie was insensible to,
the tendency of those acts, but because there were other modes
in what the " rent" was applied more deserving of reprehen-
sion. He was unwilling to detain the House, but he could.
not help a reference to the interference of that Body with the
ordinary administration of justice. He knew that any obser-
vation of this sort he might make would give rise to remarks
upon an Association which had existed in England. In the
first place, however, an Association might be legal in this coun-
- try which would neither be legal nor expedient in Ireland—for
then it might be attended with more prejudicial consequences.
But the Catholic Association had not only interfered with the
ordinary administration of justice, but had intermingled itself
with all the preliminary proceedings before the inferior tribu-
nals. In investigations before a single Magistrate, in trials at
- the Petty Session--(Hear, hear !)—and in Coroner's Inquests,
the agents of the Association were employed. Nor upon those
occasions was the interference of the agents confined to the
cases tinder consideration, but every thing calculated to
:awaken or exasperate political animosity was urged—the
Magistrates were personally appealed to—and the alleged
sufferings of the Catholics were pleaded in extenuation of
crime, and in violation of justice. Every Court of Petty
-:Sessions even was attended, when the occasion was thought
fit., by Cuunsel delegated by the Catholic Association—
delegated for the purpose of perplexing by the subtlety
and intricacies of his argument the course of the legal pro-
ceedings. He spoke from what had really happened, and
not from any ideal picture of his own. Such had been the
effect of this line of conduct in some parts of the country, that
many Magistrates had been reduced to the necessity of retiring
from the Courts where they were subjected to this sort of per-
secution. He would, however, draw their attention to the
effect of this course in some of the higher Courts. It happened
that about the end of July last a statement reached the Catho-
lic Association relative to a murder committed in the parish of
leallybey. The writer stated that the murder was committed by
an Orangeman upon a Roman Catholic, under circumstances of
gre it aggravation, and was coupled with an expression of in-
dignation that the Association had not interfered without wait-
ing for the stimulus of the writer's account. In the first place
he wished the House to remark upon this case, that the letter
•to which he alluded containing all these details, was publicly
circulated over the country by the Catholic Association, before
the individual charged was put upon his trial.—(Hear, hear!)—
In the second place he should call their attention to the course
adopted by the Association in pursuance of the matter. Arm-
gaeng to themselves the functions of Parliament, a meeting
was convened at which the letter was read, and a resolution re-
gularly passed and entered upon their journals, " That upon
the motion of S. D. Mullen, the Committee appointed to hives-
tigate the circumstances of the recent murder in the parish of
Ballybey, be summoned to meet upon Monday next, and the
.communications upon the subject being laid before them, they
be authorized to adopt whatever proceedings may appear re-
quisite:"—(Cheers from the Opposition.)—He (Mr. Goulburn)
• begged to observe that he was stating facts, and he thought it
would be more to the satisfaction of the Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
- site to reserve their cheers till they should hear the end of the
case. This Committee, he had to inform the House, made a
report, in which they declared the case in
.question was one
which called for the interference of the Association, and recom-
mended that Mr. Kiernan should be directed to conduct the pro-
secution. This accordingly took place. Mr. Kiernan did con-
duct the prosecution ; but it was material to consider what was
the consequence of all this to the individual placed upon his
trial.. In consequence of this report, and the publicity of the
statement upon which it was founded, he went to trial with the
- opinion of the whole Catholic population of the country against
him.—(Hear, hear !)—He appeared upon the day of his trial,
with the supposed facts elicited by the investigation of the Ca-
• tholic Association arrayed_ against him, the result of which was
that a Catholic hadbeen slain by him because he was a Catho-
He would, however, trouble the Houseto pursue the pro-
ceedings in this case to their ternsination. At the trial a variety
of witnesses were produced, who severally swore to the most
horrible aats of cruelty on the part of the prisoner. One
swore to his having jumped upon the throat of the deceased;
another that he had inhumanly kicked him in the ribs when
he lay upon the ground; others spoke to the fact of hi-
having broken the deceased's arm, and went on with a sea
ries of the most shocking-recitals. But how were the facts
of the case, as proved in the- progress of the .trial. The sur-
geons who examined the body were produced—men beyond
imputation as to character, and also beyond the influence of
• the Catholic Association. They proved to the complete saris-
- faction of the Court and the J
Hear, ury, that on the body there was
no one mark of violence.—( ham{
deceased, it ap-
peared; had received his.death by accidentally falling upon a
small post, and breaking thereby one of the vertebra of his-
neck. Added-to this, in the defence circumstances came out
highly honourable to the individual, as to his conduct upon the
occasion which had brought the deceased to his death.-.-(fear !)
- He would not leave this case without reciting to the House the
words of the Judge, upon discharging the prisoner. They
were to the following effect :-.-" I do not think it right to
- discharge you from the place where yon now stand without ex-
. 'resting to you my entire satisfaction at your conduct upon the
veiling to which your trial has had reference. It is evident
from whathaa transpired in the course of your trial, that you.

exerted ourself to the utmost to preserve the peace, and your
conduct entitles you to the highest praise."—(Hear, hear !)
Yet this was the individual who had been denounced for a
whole fortnight before his trial as having been guilty of the
most abhorrent crime under the most aggravated circum-
stances ; and against whom were animated'the feelings of the
whole country of whatever party. It lab been said, he be-
lieved by the Hon. Member for Midhurat, that if he admired
any thing in the catholic Association,. it was its interference
in the administration of justice in Ireland. Now if the case
which he had cited was a specimen of the improvement
wrought by their interference, and he really thought it was
a fair specimen, he hoped they would not long hold the
power of administering such improvement. For his part he
preferred the old and approved principles and practice of
the law of the country by which every individual, was re-
garded as-innocent until proved to be guilty.—( Hear, hear ! )
Nowithstanding the lights which the Catholic Association had
shed upon the subject, he still continued to think that it was
fairer towards an individual under trial for his life to abstain
from any effort to inflame the minds of people against him. He
was also of opinion that it would be better if Jurors who sub-
scribed rent, as it was termed, should not have the prosecution
in which they acted conducted by those to whom that rent was
paid.—(Hear.!)—But this was not the only case of a similar
nature which had come to his knowledge. In January last it
had been announced to the Association by the Priest of the
parish of Newmarket, that a soldier of -the 25th regiment had
been detected in an attempt to seduce the people from their
allegiance by offering to administer illegal oaths to them. The
name of the soldier was Stephen Hanley, and the Priest in his
letter stated that " the ruffian was apprehended in his attempt
to persuade four men to take the illegal oaths. Upon being
asked what the nature of the oaths were, he said it sat
to be true to each other, and that they were to kill all the
soldiers, all the Orangemen, and all the Ptotes'ants. He
said that the Dean had selected him as the most proper
man to enlighten the people." The letter went on to say,
that the " reffian" had been arrested ; that the witnesses
had attempted to deny the facts, but that a more deer
case of guilt, and one better proved, had never been known ;
that it behoved the Association to come forward, or nothing
would be done, and, in the opinion of the writer, he had better
be transported immediately, as the best means to stop the career
of similar incendiaries. When this had first met his eye he did
not believe it possible that it eonld be an invention for the pur-
pose of making the Government, out to be the seducers, and for
the purpose of making the soldiers and the people, who had
hitherto been friendly, regard each other as enemies. The
case, however, came on before a numerous Bench of Ma-
gistrates, fortyethree in number ; but such was the contra-
dictory nature of the evidence adduced on the part of the
prosecution, that the Bench was unanimous in the opinion that
it need not go to the Jury. At the head of this Bench was
Mr. Blackburn, whose respectability and legal competency no
one in that House would deny.—(Hear !)—This soldier was
not only subjected to imprisonment, and to every vile appella-
tion that could be given to him, but lie was actually denounced
at the altar by the priessuf the parish where he was taken up.
The priest went so far as to tell his auditors to be cautious
against the soldiers, whose object was to lead them astray, in
order that they might afterwards shoot them like dogs—( H ear !)
—To this admonition he added the humane promise that he
would seek out the mother of the woman to whom the soldier
was married, and have her sent out of the country. This was
a new mode of administering the law in a Christian country,
where the innocent mother of the wife of a prisoner was to
be expelled from her home, to become a wanderer in a foreign
land. Again he said lie preferred the old mode of adminis-
tering the laws to that which the Catholic Association would
introduce. Let the reverse case be imagined, in which he
(Mr. Goulburn) or any other Minister were to act the part
proposed here to be acted, to send the innocent mother out of
the country, on which side would the shouts then be ?—( Hear,
hear!)--Why then should they show more leniency to the Ca-
tholic Association than they would do to a responsible 31:nieter
of the Crown ? The case he had just related had been followed
by a similar one, in which a policeman was the victim—the ob-
ject there was to render the whole body of the police odious to
the people, and to excite the acrimony of party in the admi-
nistration of justice. He could relate many cases of the same
description, but he would leave them, and come to the subject
of the proclamations of the Catholic Association. One had
appeared in the month of December last, in which they
boasted that they had restored tranquillity to the country.—
About that time it appeared they began to entertain a great
aversion to Whiteboy offences; and they bethought them-
selves that it was true, as they eossessed some influence in
the country, to obtain the suffrage of the respectable portion
of the country, who had hitherto kept aloof from some feeling
of alarm with regard to them. He would not trouble the
House to hear him read the whole of the address, but there
were certain pasts to which he would call their attention. In
the early part they called upon their adherents to abstain
from all illegal meetings and acte, and especially from White-
boyism. Having done this they urged their argument in sup-
port of it. One of these was the power of the law, which, if
effectively administered, would assuredly be too strong for
them ; and then said the proclamation, " how many innocent
persons have we seen suffer transportation." Here it appeared
that they could not advise the people to abstain from out-
rage without libelling the law, by asserting that people were
transported under it who were guilty of no offence. On behalf
of the Irish Government he begged to state, and the Committee
which sat last Session upon Irish affhirs would concur with him
in the assertion, that there was nothing to which the Lord Lieu-
tenant paid more attention to than to this branch of its func-
tions. Every case underwent his particular attention, in order
to insure that no man should suffer the sentence of the law where
there was a shadow of evidence in his favour. Yet the writer of
this paper was a man not ignorant of the laws of evidence and
the legal justice of his country. This was the outset of the Pro-
clamation ; but he would presently show what were the motives
at the bottom of this conciliatory address. These were placed
at the conclusion, which was intended as the strong point of the
whole, to sum up as it were the merit of the Address, and
shew the principal upon which the Association professed to
act, and that which it was the object of the Address to incul.
cate. This passage called upon them, in the name of common
sense, and by the hatred they bore to Orangemen, their natural
enemies, their respect for their priests, and reverence for the
religion of the living God, to observe the exhortations of the Ad-
dress. This document had been penned upon a Sabbath, the
writer pretending to conceive that he was doing a work agree-
able to God. But could any man be so ignorant as to believe
he was doing his holy work when he placed two such sentiments
side by side, as love to God and hatred to his creature ?—(Hear !)
—What could be the nature of that Association, which could pro-
mulgate sucha doctrine as acceptable to God as love of hisreligion
and hatred to his neighbour? This, he feared, was part of thecreed
of all the Catholics ; and coupling this part with the effect
of their interference in the administration of justice in the
country, what, he asked, must be the consequence of such a
body continuing to act, with the influence and the designs which
they had manifested ? This sentiment had been affirmed by
the Association, when called upon by one of the members to
impugn and reject it. He was therefore entitled to assume that
they concurred in it as a body, the approach to unanimity
having been such that they would not even divide upon the pro.
position to reject it. This proclamation had been sent to every
priest in the country, by him to be read publicly in the church.
—( Hear, hear !) —I f there wanted a proof of the influence of this
Association, this, which procured that the priests should in-
culcate from the altar " hatred to their natural enemies," their
fellow-creatures, would suffice for that purpose. For their re-
ligion was based Upon the same principles as our own, and so
great a departure from those principles argued a proportionate
influence. This paper had been read upon the Sabbath to the
congregations of the respective churches, and left to work its
effect on the ignorant minds of the populace. Under these
circumstances, was it surprising that an anxiety upon the sub-
ject of this body should be felt by the Government of Ire-
land ? Having forborne, until forbearance was almost a
crime, they now called upon Parliament to protect the
country, not only from political but from religious dan-
ger. Was it possible to look on inactive any longer, whilst
this Association continued in its baleful course, perverting
justice, sowing the seeds of disunion, and proclaiming open
hatred to a great portion of the population ? It was to be ob-
served that the consequences of former Associations were still
fresh in the memory of that country. In 1791 a similar body
arose. styling themselves United Irishmen. There were other
associations strongly resembling in their nature the Catholic
Association which flourished at this period, the termination of
which they could not forget. He would not recur to the events
of those times, of which indeed it was impossible to think
without horror. He would merely remind them that the
United Irishmen began by professing, like the Catholic Asso-
ciation, that they were assembled for the purpose of obtaining
emancipation. It was distinctly laid down in their first ad-
dress that emancipation was what they had in view, in order
to induce the concurrence of the country. The House well
knew, from the subsequent confessions of some of the par-
ties, that revolution and separation from England were their
real objects. They, too, like this association, had endea-
voured to levy rent, and they defended criminals by counsel
out of-their own body. He must, however, in justice to them,
say, that they never attempted to transport an innocent
soldier, nor crush a meritorious officer. But, lie again
asked, was there a-1y w vier that the Irish Government should
call upon Parliament with a loud voice to rescue the country
from the impending danger of this new Association ? He
wished to present the question under a new face. Supposing
Government or Parliament were to refuse the protection re-
quired from them, and not give redress for the wrongs of the
peaceable part of the community, or to confine the evil within
certain limits—could they expect that those who were opposed
to this .body woeld not, upon the principle of self-defence, ere.

rOl themselves into a body possessing the same power, exer-
cising the same autherity, andanterfering in like manner in the
a lministration of the laws ?—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial
benches.)—And could that House be insensible to the evils of a
double Parliament ao established—wherein a contest would he
;arried on, not by individuals, but by two conflicting rival
Oodies, engrossing the whole power and consideration of the
dngdom, and dividing-it into opposing parties ? Would they
wish such a state of things to exist, wherein when a copse was
to be tried, they would have the counsel of the --Catholic'
Association marshalling all the etitlePce on bne side, and the
hostile faction doing the same on the other ? Could they desire
to see rival Proclamations and recriminations issuing from the
Protestants and Catholics ? What every good man must wish
to sea their dissensions buried for ever iii oblivion, could they
w.s I to see the rival faetions eaerting.theMselves to perpetuate ?
He called upon the gentlemen from Ireland to say whether
they would live in a country subject to such a species of double
domination. Whatever objections there might be to the de-
ails of his measure, there c mid not be, he was convinced, any
objection to the principle of a measure which should be direct-
dto the removal of such an evil. It would not be denied that
stone measure was necessary. Before he came to state the nature
of the measure itself he would make a few observations with re-
ference to other obnoxious Societies in Ireland. Two years ago,
with the unanimous concurrence of the House, he had brought
in a Bill to suppress Secret Societies in Ireland. In some parts of
that country this Bill had achieved its object ; but in other parts
the Societies which it had7been desired to put down, had new-
modelled themselves so as to evade the penalties of the Bill,
and still continued to meet. Some had substituted for •the ille-
gal oaths, the oaths of allegiance and supremacy, which the
members were obliged to take before a Magistrate, and to pre-
-e it a certificate to that effect, to entitle them to admission.—
Now, it was his wish to.carry the Statute still further, so as to
lea at these cases. He proposed, therefore, that the Bill which
he d aired leave to introduce, should meet the two cases he had
det tiled ; diff.aing certainly in extent of danger, but in a consti-
tutional point of view, equally important. With respect to the
Catholic Association, the leading features objectionable in that
body were its permanency of aitting, and obtaining rent ; and
the Bill would accordingly contain a provision to prevent its
continuing to sit permanently, or to levy funds. In other-re-
spects the Bill wotiltl be directed against all corresponding and
illegal societies ; it would render illegal all societies having for
their object the promotion of any particular religion '(as the
Right Hon. Gentleman -was understood) ; and it would further
cause the oaths appointed by the different Acts of Parliament
to be taken in the spirit of those Acts, and not in such a way as
should render them .subservient to illegal purposes. Certain
exceptions would be inserted for the purpose of exempting par-
ticular calms of society, and to prevent the perversion of law
by vexatious prosecutions. These were the leading principles
of the Bill, which heakarnestly'hoped the House would consent
to entertain. No others- cause, it appeared to him, was left to that
house than to mark their abomination of this Society, which
curtailed the prerogative of the Crown, invaded the privi-
leges of the people, and disturbed the whole frame of the com-
munity, by shewing a manly determination and energy to sup-
press it. They would thus phew they were not insensible to
their own dignity and rights, and, the high responsible duties of
their station. 'rhereliad been a time when that House would
deal with such a eaaesivith a degree of energy, which by a mere
display of their authority would effectually put dawn an evil
like this. He believed that such a display upon the present
occasion would penetrate the great mass of the people, however
they might be swayed by the Catholic Association. 'rue result
of a decisive courseasuch as he recommended, would be that
tranquillity and peace would be establisheilina country at pre-
sent torn by faction, and menaced with new disturbances. By
a course thus marked by wisdom and prudence, would creland
be admitted to her just-share in the general prosperity, peace,
and happiness of the empire. Animated by this hope, he had
risen on the present occasion, and would leave his motion to the
decision of the House, with the idlest confidence.__( he Right
Hon. Gentleman wasiondly cheered upon sitting down.)
The motion was then put from the Chair, " That leave be
given to bring in a Bill to amend certain Acts relating to un-
lawful Societies in ,Ireland?"
Mr. J. SMITH observed, that it was remarkable that in in-
troducing a measure of this nature, the Right t lion. Gentleman
should have given • them so long a description as to its neces-
sity upon his own statement.—(Hear!)--He would as soon take
his assertion, as any other mari's -that he tnew; but the was
bound to consider that its was a public measure,in which case
he did not feel himself at liberty to credit unsupported state-
ments ; and he desired to know whether there was any evidence
to spew that the Catholic Association deserved the character
which had been given to it. The Right Honourable Gen-
tleman, although he said he would not go back to former
periods, did go back, and painted them in very glaring colours
to ). Nov he, (Mr. Smith) could not rip up old stories*
or
he dared to say he could recall parallel horrors to any which
fie Right Honourable Gentleman could adduce. He might
ask them to turn their eves to -the scenes of 1790—t0 the
conflagrations and seditious cries of that time but he thought
it unnecessary. According to the Right Honourable Gentle-
man, one migot .suppose that the Orange Socities were the
meat mild and benevolent in the world. But, in the North of Ire-
land, the most horrid disorders had taken place, which were
attributed to the Orangemen. He himself had presented a
petition from an individual who had been brutally used by
twenty-five Orangemen. He (pursued .these men—they were
tried and acquitted, he supposed by a jury of Orangemen.—
Upon this topic he could not help adverting to the opinion de-
livered by the late Lord Chancellor of Ireland (Lord Redes-
dale), who had 'for twenty years administered the law in that
country. He said, that there was one law for the rich and one
for the poor, and that they were both equally ill administered.
He ds ipproved of-thepaper which the Right Hon. Gentleman
had read as much as' that Right Hon. Gentleman could do
himself ; but it skewed to him that there existed amongst the
Catholics a profound sense of injustice, the result of their
long experience of ,injuries. With respect to the proceed-
ings of the Government in recent cases, they seemed to him in
this, as on many other occasions, to be deficient in common
sense. About the year 1809 Lord Liverpool had written a let-
I ter to parties who were before the public, shewing that the
' oaths taken by Orangemen were illegal, and quoting the Acts
of Parliament which made them so. This referred to such
associations in this country; but what could be the reason
after this public exposure of the fact that ()range Societies
were allowed to exist in Ireland? He thought that many in-
nocent persons must have been transported under the Insur-
rection Act; for it was a remarkable fact, that the Irish con-
victs in New South Nl7ales were the most orderly class of per-
sons there. He sincerely hoped the measure of the Right Hon.
IGentleman might produce the effects he anticipated from it,
I but he had the misfortune to see mast of the acts of Govern-
, ment take a contrary effect upon that unhappy country. There
was one mode, and one only, by which it would be possible to
pacify Ireland. That was to grant to the Catholics of that
country the same rights as were enjoyed by the Protestants—
(Hear, hear o—They had seen this step taken fearlessly in
Hanover, and in Maryland they saw the Catholics and Dissen-
ters conduct their mutual interests in the most amicable union.
He defied the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for
the Home Department to produce one single instance, from
modern or ancient history, in which the most extensive to-
leration had ever been productive of any harm. On the
contrary, it would be found that toleration was the secret by
which to manage all religious sects. Before he sat down,
he must express his grief that the measure was calculated to
defer the hopes of the Catholics as to the attainment of their
rights. He was sorry to see it supported by the Right Honour-
able Secretary for Foreign Affairs, in whom he had no doubt
existed a sincere wish to do away with the disabilities under
which that body laboured. This he was assured would excite
their resentment, and add to their various disappointments.—
Ile had already expressed his gratitude to that Right Honour-
able Gentleman for the statesman-like manner in which he had
conducted the great measure of the recognition of the States of
South America.—( Hear, hear !)—He had been at once careful
of the national honour and interests, and perfectly just to all
parties.—(Hear!)—This rendered it an .additional mortification
to see him depart from the liberal character of his administra-
-don, and would tend more than any thing to destroy in the
minds of the Catholics the hopes which they had conceived
from him. But surely if there was any task worthy of his great
talents and high ambition, it was that of healing the wounds of
his country.—(Hear !)—He was perhaps the only man who
could do it ; and what pleasure, he repeated, could be equal to
that of raising the land of his birth from misery and distraction
to unalloyed happiness and prosperity ? He could not persuade
himself that this was not his intention. In justice to Ireland he
would do it. Whatever his motive was for withholding it, and
probably it was a good one, the day he was sure would arrive,
and his would be the hand to achieve freedom for Ireland.
With respect to this Bill, lie had not so distinctly heard the na-
ture of it as stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Goul-
burn) to be able
-to give any opinion. All that he could say
was, that if it appeared to him to trench upon the rights of any
set of individual in Ireland, he would, oppose it.
ABERCROMBY said, that whatever pleasure the
Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland might have in opening this
measure to the House, it was a task of real sorrow for him
(Mr. Abercromby) to join in the discussion. He looked upon
the measure as one which went to sap the foundations of the
peace of the country. He could give no assent to it. He
regretted the existence of the Catholic Association, but 90
grounds very different from others. Some persons regretted !as
existence, because, so long as it did exist, and so long as its
leaders continued their present activity, they afforded a threet
evidence of the solid grievances under which the Catholics suf.
fered ; because its tendency and inevitable
gay.e clear and undeniable , effect was to bring
-to light many things which these persons dud not wish to see.
ge But he, on the other hand reetted its existence, because
it
priof of the nuflyersation of Go.

vernment s because it caused the finger of scorn to be raised
against England, and enabled the bitterest enemies of the coun-
try to question the wisdom and honesty of our rulers. If he
were asked whether the Catholic Association ought to cease, he
would answer at once yes ; /tot that he was disposed to agree
with the Right Hon. Secretary's; proposition. In that propo-
sition he saw (what the Right lion. Gentleman himself stated)
the commencement of a system to keep pace with the inge-
nuity of the peo4le. _Butsthottgli it waain the power of Par-
liament to destroy by a' sins, act tilt-Catholic Associa-
tion, yet they woulll thereby. apasoach a single step towardi
eradicating ltst thile. The. "fight -Honourable Secretary
wished to make war against the symptoms of evil; he (Mr.
A.) wished to make war against the causes. Emancipation
was the only weapon which could destroy those causes.—
I(Hear !)—He could not but speak in praise, of the spirit which
sustained the Catholic Association, so long as the Government
I were determined to act in the same spirit which generated it.
That spirit was one of injustice towards the people of Ireland,
for the Catholics formed in fact the Irish people. It was of
importance to inquire into the necessary effect of the Right
Honourable Gentleman's Bill. It would tend to aggregate all
the offensive and offended feelings of the country, and increase
to an incalculable degree the very evil it was intended to re-
' press. On the contrary, lie (Mr. Abercromby), in conjunc-
don with some of the ablest and wisest men that ever sat in
Parliament, believed that emancipation was the surest way
to destroy those odious distinctions which at present separated
and degraded the country. It would create a feeling of affec-
tion amongst the Catholics, and consolidate them throughout
the Empire. On this general -view it was that he resisted the
proposition of the Right Hon. Secretary. That Itight Hon.
Gentleman had engaged in much severe language against the
Catholic Association itself. He (Mr. A.) did not stand there
to defend it, but lie must say that he did not recognize the jus-
tice of such censure. It had been likewise urged, that only
a small portion of the Catholic population of Ireland would
enter into the feelings of the leaders of that body, because the
larger mass was not at all affected by the exclusion of Lord
Fingal from the House of Peers, and the withholding a silk
gown from Mr. O'Connell. It was very surprising to hear
such observations from parsons who had been in Ireland, and
knew any thing about the feelings of the people. The truth
was, that the people felt not merely suCli exclusions, but
they perceived and felt likewise the many other evils of the
system. If they united in associations, it was because they
saw associations banded together against them. The Orange
societies first impressed upon them the necessity of similar
unions in their own defence. They saw, too, a large propor-
tion of the Established Church of England habitually taking a
decided part against them. The Church of England united
itself with a political party against the Catholics, and ever since
the time when Lord Sidmouth declared that Catholic exclusion
was the tenure by which he held office, the Church of England
had acted upon the principle that Catholic exclusion was their
bond of union. When, therefore, they saw these unions in Ire-
land and in England—when they saw the arguments employed
against them in Parliament—when they saw themselves for
twenty-live years the victims of Mr. Pitt's broken promise—
when they saw themselves objects of suspicion, scorn, or hatred,
was it to be wondered that they should form an union to
exhibit their strength and discharge their feelings? 'They had
shewn that strength and that feeling, but in no way that violat-
ed the law of the land. Had there been any real grounds.
for proceeding against the Association as violating the laws, it
would have been most assuredly proceeded against. Every
one must have been convinced of this, who had observed the'
abortive measures recently pursued against one of their leading
members—measures which he would not characterize as they
deserved. But the very fact that no other attempt to prose-
cute had been made, and the failure of that solitary attempt
was a conclusive proof that they had not violated the law ; and
yet with i full knowledge of the unions against the Associa-
tion, and with a full knowledge that the Association had trans-
gressed no law, Parliament was called upon to persist in the
course which had generated the evil, and was asked to coun-
tenance a set of measures that were (as tke Right Honour-
able Proposer had candidly admitted) to keep pace with the
ingenuity of the people. He (Mr. A.) abjured such a system
as necessarily leading to a separation of the two countries.—
The Bight Hon. Gentleman had gravely deplored the union of
the two opposite characters of priest and politician. Such an
union was no doubt very calamitous, and deserved to be abo-
minated. But not less to be abominated was the Protestant
Bishop, who united the trade of politician with his sacred cha;
racier, than was the Catholic Bishop who entered into the same
union. It made no difference that the one abounded in wealth
and dwelt in a palace, and the other lived in obscure poverty.
If it. was wrong to preach politics at the Catholic altar, it must
be'equally wrong to preach politics from a Protestant pulpit.—
He (Mr. Abercromby) asked for equal and impartial justice,
and was unwilling to see the priest condemned for leading up
his flock to the poll, whilst the Protestant clergyman was suf-
fered to escape censure for interfering in elections, The Right
Hon. Secretary had also objected to the Association for interfer-
ing in the administration of justice. Now he (Mr. A.) knew
of several cases in which their administration had been of the
greatest benefit. It had taught the rich that they were amen- .
able to the law, and the poor, that they were not shut out.from
I the law's protection. He hoped the House would excuse his
mentioning the instances, and take his word for their existence.
He felt grateful to the Right Hon. Gentleman for the selection
of cases he had made, as they proved the very reverse of what
they were meant to prove. Granting that the Catholic Associa-
tion were as malignant as they had been described, what was
the fact ? Why that in the first case quoted by the Right Hon.
Secretary the party was acquitted. The second case did not
touch the Associatiation at all. It touched the conduct of a
Catholic Priest; and if the case had been correctly stated, no
one could deny but that that conduct deserved severe reprobation.
And even in that case the individual tried was acquitted before
a Bench of Magistrates presided over by an upright, honourable,
and able lawyer, Mr. Blackburn. That acquittal was a most
consolatory circumstance, for it showed that Justice was still to
be found in Ireland. It sheaved, also, that the case selected
afforded no ground of accusation against the Catholic Asso-
ciation. When the question of such Associations had ever
been discussed, lie (Mr. Abercromby) had always stated that
the great objection to them was the influence they were likely
to have over Juries. Yet the cases shown by the Right Hon.
Gentlemen were not of conviction but of acquittal, where the
cause of justice had triumphed. If lie were not mistaken, they
were cases where, on the Right Hon. Gentleman's own show-
ing, the Juries were partly composed of persons contributing
to the Catholic Rent. (Mr. Goulburn, said No.) The Learn-
ed Member said that he wished at no time to misrepresent
I any person, at least of all at present, when the cases which the
[ Right Hon. Gentleman had quoted, proved beyond question
that justice still prevailed in Ireland. Why, then, lie would
ask, legislate upon the question ? Any new laws were both un-
necessary and absurd. What must be the consequences ?
Even suppose the Association to be a silly Association, sup-
pose the speakers to be trashy and common-place, suppose
that they continued to publish statements of grievances and
oppressions, and to send persons down into the country to pre.
sscute, and that the innocent continue to be acquitted. The
necessary inference was, that any legislative enactments were
unnecessary because die Association was harmless, and must
die of itself. Great stress had been laid by three Right lion.
Cd societies ;
Wepassages :
r
Gentlemen opposite on an address published by the Associa-
tion. That Address he had read at .the time to the news-
prpers, and whether the effect of prejudice or not he could
lrleya t
flro one n e
all o r
secret
twoe
not say, but bating some strong expressions peculiar to Irish-
men, he considered it an honourable proof of the virtue and pa-
triotism
advisthee
se author's.youto
liea
refrain
otadfrom all private combination, from every species of White-
boyism, or Ribbonism, or whatever other name any secret
or private association may be called. We would not attempt
to deceive or delude you ; we could net obtain your confi-
dence if we were to state falsehoods; and if we could, we
wott
would not purchase confidence at the expence of truth." It
was impossible for any sounder and b
" better advice to be given.
It went on to say, that whenever , hiteboy or Ribbonmen of-
fences were committed, many innocent persons will inevi-
tably be convicted of,,crimes they never committed." The ex-
pression was will, and not have been." In this the As-
sociation stated that which was. perfectly true, for wherever
the passions of men were excited, and disturbances ensued,
the innocent were sure to
,be confounded with the guilty, and
often suffered for them. How many innocent persons
we known to stiffer transportation ? and how many have we
seen suffer death by reason of Whiteboy crimeo any
should be. glad to know what there was offensive t.o any
one in this passage ? However great the crime might be, he
would say. that he perfectly concurred with every sentiment
contained in it. The same passage, whilst it condemned in-
formers, absolved the Government. There was
nothing in that
part of the Address with which every dispassionate man would
not perfectly agree. The Learned Gentleman said he would
pass over some of the intervening passages, until he came to
the following :—" In the name then of consnon sense, which
forbids you to set foolish courses, by the hate you bear the
Orangemen, who are your natural enemies ; by the confidence
you repose in the Catholic Association, who are
your natural
and zealous friends; by the respect and affection you entertain
for your clergy, who alone visit with comfort your beds of
sickness and desolation ; by all these powerful motives, and
still more by the affectionate reverence you bear for the gra-
cious
Monarch, who deigns to think of your sufferings with
a view to your reliefs and above all, and infinitely beyond
all, in the name of religion and of the living God, we coo
jure you to abstain from all secret and illegal societies.,
and Whitehoy disturbances and .outrages." In this para-
graph the offensive words were, " the hate you bear to
Orangemen." If the paper had said, " 1 conjure you to
bate the Orangemen, and to declare irreconcileable -war
against the Orangemen," then, indeed, no expression of ab,