The Sun.
London, England, 1838-02-19 00:00:00

COURT OF ALDERMEN.

(FROM OUR OWN REPORTER.)
VIE INFAMOUS COAL MONOPOLY.

On Saturday the Committee of the Court of Aldermen resumed its
Inquiry on this subject.
The A'detmen present were Mr. Alderman Venables, Chairman,
Mr. Alderman Harmer, Mr, Alderman Lainson, and Mr. Alderman
Rumphery.
Mr. Alderman COMMAND was also present at the commencement of
%It sitting of the Committee, but withdrew, after stating that he con.
Pidered it was an absolute waste of time to prosecute the inquiry fur.
thee, as there was a Committee of the House of Commons appointe4 to
illithire into the working of the Coal Act, and before which the whole
MeAter would be investigated.
Captain Thomas Young was then called, and, in answer to questions
ty Mr. Alderman Venables, said—l am master.mariner, and reside at
lloith Shields. lam master and part owner of the Eliza. I hare
net With great impediments in the North in obtaining cargoes,
At several tittles, in consequence of arrangements I under.
IlttiOci tfl ekist among the eoalsowners. I could not buy coals at
all. About two years ago I was refused coals by George Leach, the
vendor of the Walls End coals, sod the reason assigned for such re-
fusal was, that I did not comply ,a ith the factor's regulations in London;
that I had not " laid my turn," that is to say, that I had discharged my
cargo before the time allowed by their regulations. It had been toy
practice, if I came up at the tail of 200 or 300 vessels, not to wait, but
to sell my cargo as soon as I could get a purchaser. In the North it is
said the regulations benefit the freightage, but my opinion is it injures
the freightage. I knew the public were in want of coals, and I wanted
to sell the coals immediately on my arrival in London, which they would
tint allow me to do.

By Mr. Alderman HAstmEa—My opinion is, those regulations do harm
to the lihip-owner, but they do much snore barns to the consumer. I

thoUght tho poor of London were in want of fuel as much as they
went in want of food.

By Mr. Alderman Vs:sautes—l brought an action egaiest the parties
who refused to supply me, but they compromised it by paying a penalty
and all the expellees, and promising to supply me for the future—that I
should for the future be unfettered. I went to work and they conti-
nued their faith with me for two years, but now they have broken it.
Last July, Mr. Hindorff, the fitter, wished me to sign a document which
was an undertaking that I would comply with their regulations, and I
did sign it, but I never intended to comply with their regulations.
By Mr. Alderman ll►aMßa—l signed because the gentleman told me,
If I did not he would get into trouble with his fellow-fitters.
By Mr. Alderman HUMPIIIMY—The last time I was refused,
was the day after Christmas day, and I was obliged to lay at
South Shields till the 29th day of January, without being able
to obtain a cargo. lat length got a cargo on freight, in come.
entente of an accident having occurred to a vessel laden with coals,
and I arrived at Northfleet on the 2d of February. [Mr. Thompson, who
was the other owner of the Eliza, here read a letter which he had re-
ceived front Captain Young, dated South Shields, January all, 1838,
and in which Captain Young said, " We are all at a stand still here,
save a few gas ships and small coasters, and many of them were loaded
before we arrived here. I have been befor6 the Committee in Elden.
square. Mr. Brandling, who was in the chair, said he insisted on doing
with his coals as he liked. I complained to them of having broken faith
with me, &c. Yesterday I saw Mr. J. Lamb; I told him I wanted to
be on Holywell List, ready to load when the ice gave, but he would not
consent to that unless I paid Is. per ton extra, nor will they load me at
other places ; there have been no freights giveu that would pay since we
arrived, and many of the ship-owners now find the regulations will not
do for them, and they have increased the ships in the coasting trade,"]
Witness continued-1 could have got loaded if I had paid the extra
shilling per ton.
By Mr. Alderman VENAULEB—There were many ships loaded in the
intorim—some made their voyage to London and back during the time
I was at South Shields endeavouring to get coals. Those who con-
formed to the factors' regulations did not pay as much as I paid. If I
bad said I was going to France or any other place besides London, they
would have let me had the coals, but I should be sorry to use that sort
of subterfuge,
Mr. Alderman HAAMER—WouId they have loaded you at the price they
charged others if you were going to France ?—Witness replied that they
would supply vessels going any where except to London. One 'of the
Gravesend companies pretended to load for France recently, and got
their cargo and came to London.
By Mr. Alderman H►assa—ln consequence of these regulations the
River is quite clogged with vessels waiting for their turn, and the navi-
gation of the river from Gravesend up the pool is, therefore, very much
impeded.
Mr. Thompson then read a letter which had been addressed to him
in 1835,in which the writer gave a narrative of an interview he had
had with a coal agent at South Shields, as follows :—" Attended Mr.
Young on Wednesday, the 30th of Dec., 1535, at Heaton Walls End
Otfice,to fix the ship Eliza for a cargo of coals, when a Mr. Thomson,
She agent, refused io place the Ellen on their list. The Captain offered
Eileen pounds as a deposit on the coals wanted, which Mr. Thomson re-
fused. He said, ' I must abide my orders.' We then left the office,
but returned in about twenty minutes, and the Captain immediately ten.
dered 1451, cash for the required cargo, but Mr. Thomson still ref Used
to accept the money, or to put the Eliza on the list. As we were about
to leave the office, Mr. Thomson said, 'Recollect I don't refuse to sell the
Captain a cargo at 305.. but I won't take less.' The Captain then en-
quired at what time the price had been advanced to 305., to which
Thomson replied, the prices would be advanced, and he could not sell
cagro under thirty shillings. The Captain again tendered the
one hundred and forty-five pounds for a cargo, to be charged at the
taus; price; but could get no other answer than that, if lie would buy
at SOs., his ship should be placed oh the list. The Captain then said,
it is only a month since you charged me 265., and now you want 30s.
Thomson replied, ' Yes ; and you would not have got that cargo, if we
had not obtained more for it than others were paying. We then lett."
Mr. Alderman HAUMUR—What was the price of coals at that time ?
Witness-265. Cd.
➢ir. Alderman HIIMPIIIIRY here observed that he thought it was use_
less to pursue the investigation further, as the subject would be brought
Woe, a Parliamentary Committee.
Mr.'Aldermati H►sees thought they were bound to come to a eon.
elusion on this subject before the Committee adjourned, It wgs clear
the combination which had been proved occasioned an excessive price of
the commodity in the port of London.
Mr. Alderman iluswicar could not understand, even if it did, that
they could interfere with individuals for the purpose of compelling them
to sell their goods cheaper.
Mr. Alderman Hagusa—But the regulations which the coal-owners
In the North enter into with the factors here to keep their vessels back,
dicCasions an impediment to the navigation of the river, that we as Ma-
gistrates, and having the conservation of the river Thames, are bound
to look to, and we shall neglect our duty if we do not present a petition
to Parliament, praying for the removal of this nuisance.
Mr. Alderman Humettuer —The Grand Collier Dock Act will re-
tneaty that grievance. Docks are being erected for the purpose of taking
in al; surplus vessels that may arrive from the north.
Mr. Alderman VIANABLES said it must be an important consideration
With all persons connected with the well-being of the city of London,
Whether those regulations should be allowed to continue or not. The
coaLowners said it was a good thing for the public. That was the point
in issue. If it were a good thing, Parliament would continue it ; if it
were a bad thing, Parliament would put an end to it ; but they, as Ma-
gistrated,.were bound to investigate the matter.
Witness continued—At the time I was asked by Thomson 305., they
were selling the coals to Others at 265., so that I should not have been
able to have competed with those individuals in London. I could name
some vessels that have been for nine tt,eeks in the Thames in come-
•ueuce of the coal factors' regulations, to the great injury of masters,
14141 crews, and their families.
Mr. Alderman HUMPllKlV—Admitting that which is complained
of to bet an evil, I don't see how it is to be abated or remedied, without
nerectjng most important private interests. You have said you did not
wish to wait at the tail of 200 or 300 vessels, but wished to come up
at once wi,4l your cargo, because you felt the poor people of London re.
quired them. Now, 1 want to ask you, if 400 vessels were to arrive at
one time in Lo„.4ors from Newcastle with coals, were to sell their
cargoes to the best bidder, what would be the result ?
Witness—lt inlet be at first to our d;sadvantage, by occasioning a
glut in the market ; but it would soon find its level.
Mr. Alderman HAuYEa•—Would they be sold cheaper or dearer ?

Witness—Sold much cheap,,r.
Mr. Alderman 11UNIPUBRY-G.l whom wow"! the loss fall?
-Witness—lt would be for the benefit of the consumer, and tl.e load,
if anY, would fall on the coal owners.
Mr. Alderman Ilumernsuy—lt would benefit the consumer but cause
• loss to the coal owner ?

_....__ .
Witness—Yes ; because the coal owners put an extravagant price on
their coals. I know sonic coal owners who boast that they could afford
to sell their coals at 10s. a toil less than they do. Moreover, I con-
sider the ship owner is injured by the regulations. I lost di. by one
cargo, and the coal owner, though a great gainer, reflised to throw in is
single chaldron in the next voyage. If I had fair play I could make
°He-third more voyages in the year than I have done.
Mr. Scott, a gentleman in the coal trade, declared that the statement
was quite absurd. If vessels were to do as bad just been described,
Where could be the employment for them ? Where would the demand
come from
.Mr. Alderman HARMER—The number of ships must be diminished.
.Mr. Alderman Husfeinsav could not see that the diminution of the
Hlatriber of vessels could be effected without the annihilation of the
Drofltv of a great many. Besides, don't you want a Nursery tor
Seamen Y
Mr. Alderman VENARLES—Then you had better increase your plea.
sure yachts.—(Laughter.) Your argument would go towards annihi-
lating steam vessels.
Mr. Alderman HARMER—Are we, the conservators of the Thames, its
order to increase the price of coals, and fill the pockets of the coal_
Owners, to have the river filled with colliers ?
Mr. Alderman HUMPIIitRY—Why not put the regulations of the Court
of Aldermen into effect to clear the river ? If you want to get coals
cheaper call on the Government to let in all inland coals without a duty,
but don't annhilate one third of the colliers. Don't the Government want
to keep up the maritime interests There is nothing to prevent any
of those men selling coals immediately on their arrival.
Mr. Alderman VENABLEs—No ; but if they don't comply with the
tt ulations, they cannot get coals to bring to London.
After some further discussion, in which Mr. Alderman Humphery
'Host vigorously defended the monopolizing coal owners, and Mr. Al.
dennau Harmer and Mr. Alderman Venables warmly and much more
rationally advocated the cause of the public,
Mr. Alderman VENABLES said he was of opinion it had been clearly
vroved there did exist regulations in the North, having referenae to the
*e°difig of coals in London, and without a compliance to which the
trade could not be carried ou by independent persons ; and that this
61:trated injuriously to the iubabitants of London in two respeete—
„lat. that it impeded the navigation of the Port of London ; and
...s
'idly, that it tended to increase and keep up tile price of coals.
Alderman Hysterexav—A petition was pesented to the Court of
idermen—that petition was referred to a Committee of the Court of
4k?ermen, and you must frame your resolutions on the petition.
Mr.
.4.lderman Vueseres—We are to state our impressions, founded
's,n the fat's, and the question will theta be whether the Court of Alder.
Hen will pet.,'tion Parliament.
51ti Alderrn:n Mumma—Yes ; and I sincerely hope they will peti-
H Parliament to remedy these grievances. The Worthy Alderman
then tnovctid " Thar the Committee should recommend to the Court of
'lder
meu to petition Parliament to take immediate measures to remove
'e cause of complaint."
Pie resolution was seconded by Alderman Latsaitie, and agreed to.
:71e following paper was handed in by a deputation of mercantile
but they were informed that tho Committee could not, however
'e'eficiel Collier docks might be, and no doubt they presented vast ad.
vantages, take that subject into consideration :
" THE STATE OF THE RIVER.
,
lee
.131 consequence of the great obstruction from the accumulation of
tells -14 the river, the navigation is nearly suspended, and unhappily
With great severity on the poor, the price of coa's being now at
afoot two shillings per bushel. There are at present in the Pool up.
ti:trdt 150 loaded colliers, and 560 from Greeishithe all the way up
,ce river, occupying the deep water, to the serious inconve-
iZee of the commerce of the port of London. Tile London
i!ek and the Geetid Surrey Canal Company have afforded great fe-
n 4, to tile coal trade, by taking in collier.; at a very low rate of ton-
t!". arid without any Aterge for landing their cargoes, The state of
r 7 river, its obstruction bT thid class of vessels, the estraotalinary in.
et '%..'e in the coasting and fle-eign tatde pointed out by Sir John Hall
Katharine's Dock Corn_
wt,ite late meeting of the prrwrietors of kt..
44? n, and, not less important. the sfeat augmerkffiell of steam.vessels,
i‘ ce show the necessity of dock accr,:omodation for uttlier.B ; the sale
t() the owner by the use of the Grand Surrey Dock is 411,44 j Os.
li clog' The gmet motional work of the e,o4_
beyond the tonnage dues.
aier
the
.4c4,4:_ect, with the exten.
juek, its designated by Mr. Newman.
e:114.: °I the design by the construction of eoabbArger basin and coal-
s\ 'rt.* in Southwark, communicating by a canal to the !trile. Dock at
sn,tfurd, when the Ship Dock and the Extension of the 43rfuld Sileirey

Canal to near Vauxhall are completed, would st 11 further improve the
naviga"oa of the river, by the removal of a very great number of barges
engaged in the coal trzde."

PORTSMOUTH ELECTION.

The unlooked.for death of Mr. Carter again promises us all the din,
the discord, the heart-burnings of a contested election. The Libel a!
party, who were the friends of their late revered and deceased Member,
and still the attached friends of their living representative, Mr. Bar-
ing, assembled this evening, knowing the activity of their adversaries,
and unanimously determined to invite Sir George Staunton, Bert., of
Leigh Park, to stand forward in the support of the present Govern.
ment, and accordingly sent a requisition to him this evening, signed be
upwards of one hundred electors to that direct. Their choice is
honourable to themselves, and must be doubly flattering to
the independent Baronet, who, for his manly hearing in the late
county election rich deserves this proof of their confidence
and esteem. We have reason to know that Sir George will
respond to the warm wishes of his friends and supporters at
the late election, and though he did not succeed then, we have a full
assurance
ehe will now be returned ; and we earnestly invite the
burgesses to retain their votes in Isis favour. Captain Napier has,
however, most unwisely, and he must pardon us the expression, de.
termined, notwithstanding his knowledge of the wishes of the Liberal
and Reforming part of the burgesses, to put himself forward as a can.
dilate; and with the clap-tnip in his address of being friendly to
the Ballot, Triennial Parliaments, and the abolition of Church_
rates, thinks to overwhelm a more moderate though a much more
consistent Reformer. Captain Napier has yet to earn a political cha.
racter ; and as he has been rather Proteus.like in his promises, common
prudence we would suggest would point out that the safer course
would be to take a man whose political course is already known ;
and such a man is Sir George Staunton. Captain Napier talks
loudly and glibly of Reform. How did he evince his attach-
ment to that cause when he coquetted with Sir Charles Rowley, an
avowed Tory, to jilt the Reform candidates, Messrs. Carter and Baring ?
Ile cared not then for any political principles. If he is sincere in his
desire to oppose a Tory, lie will instantly announce his retirement from
the field, and we give him the opportunity ; for, on the very eve of our
publication, the Portsmouth Tories, who are themselves rejected by Sir
George Cockburn and Lord Fitzharris, are about to try their fortunes
with our gallant Port-Admiral, Sir Philip Durham, who but recently
was elected Member for Devizes, on the promise of being a Reformer;
but his idea of Reform savoured very strongly of Toryism, and he:sold
his place (birth-right) for a mess of pottage—the command at Ports
mouth ; and the Devizes electors strongly marked their sentiments on
his retirement, by electing Captain Deans Dundas—a thorough-goirg
Reformer.—Hants Telegraph.

MR. MURPHY'S PREDICTIONS OF

THE WEATHER. 1838.

PREDICTIONS. VERIFICATIONS.
Fsa. 11. Sunday—Changeable Hard frost during the 24
hours, bright sunny day,
clear night.
—l2. Monday—Rain—Wind Hard frost during the 24
hours, bright morning,
clear day, clear night.
—l3. Tuesday—Fair .. Hard frost during the 24
hours, very thick for all
day and night, very foul.
—l4. Wednesday—Rain—Wind...Hard frost during the 24

hours, bright sunny day,
clear night.
—l3. Thursday—Changeable Hard frost during the 24
hours, clear day and
night, windy.
--16. Friday—Rain Hard frost during the 24
hours, fair morning,
clear day, blowing a
gale till midnight.
Saturday—Fair Hard Frost till ten a.m.,
wind ceased at mid-
night • on Friday hoary
fall of snow till day-
light, morning gloomy;
rain, sleet, and snow,
from 10 a. m. to 3 p.m, a
a mild thaw, and as foul
a day as could well be.
Kennington, Suuday, Feb. 18, 1838.