The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-05 00:00:00

REFORM IN PARLIAMENT.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL having moved the Order of the
Day for resuming the adjourned debate on the Reform Bill,
Mr. GISIIOIINE rose to address the House. He felt
it became him to address the House modestly after the
brilliant speech, lie might soy the overpowering speech, of
the Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) on the opposite side of the
House. It was not for so humble an individual as him-
self (Mr, Gisborne) to answer all the arguments of the
. . . . _

Hon. Baronet, hot he should state in a few plain rds what
his opinions were upon the subject. The Hun. Baionet had
assumed that we were in a state of the greatest
prosperity—that we were hiring under the hap-
piest and most glorious Constitution, and that, in
fact, either we were happy and did not know it, or
enjoying felicity, and would not acknowledge it. He ban
assumed that what ho was pleased to call the clamour of the
country was not the cry of the people, bet was the
effect of en excitation produced from some unworthy mo-
tive, and that it was not proceeding from the natural
feelings of the people, so that that House ought not to
take notice of it. The whole of this proceeded
on the most fallacious notion of the state of the country
and the condition of the people. If the representa-
tives, too, of the people appeared in that House to
state the grievances of their constituents, they were
decried as exciters and agitators—(Hear, hear, hear)—
and not only so, but the whole blame was either thrown
upon the eatise itself, or else upon the Members or,
Ministers who brought forward the complaints--
When it had I een so broadly stated that prosperity
reigned throughout the country, and the Gmstitution was
one of the happiest, he (Mr. G.) thought he might make
some small inquiry into the manner in which the House
had performed its duties. Originally the Home, as it was-
slid was composed of two Boards—a Board of Trade and a
Board of Taxation—which were afterwards united, and
from that time the two, no doubt, formed the principal
been paid to the expenditure of the public ronney, which it
show,c srlitrhjatti ni
nn of
ththe
discharge House.'etr
o f ts duties l' ca
ne
every)
would be impossible for any Hon. Member or the Hon.
Baronet to spew had been the case. Let the Hon, Baronet
attention the
iHouse
bad
opposite (Sir H. Peel) take the two books that were on

the table---the book of the pensions and the baok of places,
and .say whether er not, from the state of those books, a
Reform in Parliament was not loudly called for. —(Cheera. )
The public money had been roost wastefully expended,
and taxation had been levied with the moat oppressive
hand. The Hems had Leen told too that there were already
symptoms of reaction ; hut he (\lr. G.) would he glad to
know in what those symptoms consisted. He believed that
the reaction Was only known, or its sy_tytoms, to the Hon.,
Baronet and a few others on his side of the House. The
present measure had likewise been described as a revolu,
tionary measure. lie (Mr. 0 ) wished to say nothing un-
civil to those who had so characterised it, but he really
did not think that though they said so they entertained
any such belief.—(Laughter.) If they had entertained
this idea, why did they not oppose the very idea
of it in the first instance, and why did they not mean Ito
show their strength against it on the present occasion ?
Why did they net, as the Hon. Member for Waterford, a
few nights ago, in allusion to another set set, had said
—why did they not spew they would rather die in
the last ditch than submit to the introduction of
such a measure into Parliament.--( Hear and laughter. )
The conduct of Ministers had been objected to also on
the ground that there had been no deduction, or com.
ptratively no deduction, made by them in the finance de-
pArtment, or in the taxes upon the people. It had been said
there had been no deduction made but that of lopping off 62
Members from the number of representative! in the
Ifouee of Commons. Considering the little use that some
Members were of, he (Mr. G.) was not at all satisfied
that the announcement of that deduction ought not to
have been received with something like a show of gra-
titude.—(Hear, hear, hear, and laughter.) In re-
gard to the finance, there was a very wide difference,
between the state of the Funds now and when the last
Government were in office. The Fends were now some-
where about 70, and at that that time they were about 90-
If they had been as high now as then, he entertained not
a single doubt that:a considerable retrenchment would have
been made by the present Government. Again the House
had been told that this measure was to bring forward an
operation of novelty—that they who supported it
were novelists. This, however, had been tolerably
set at rest last night by the Hon. Member
for Westminster. Had time Hon. and Learned Merr.ber
for Boroughbridge been in his place, he should have asked
him what set of men could hese had the power
to have made a law for the regulating all future
ages ? Ile was prepared to deny that any such set of rimer,
at any period, could have been found ; and if there were to
be novelty in the operation of the present measure, he
voluntarily enrolled himself as an accessary to the
failure, if the fact that such a law as he had al-
luded to could at any time have been or were made.
One of the benefits which would result from the proposed
measure was one which ought to recommend it more than
any other to the favour of the country—namely that the
power of becoming a Member of Parliament wet placed
within the reach of every man in a respectable station of
society. He was determined to take his stand by
this plan, because he thought it a full and effectual mea-
sure. He was not one of those who wished for an
annual change of Parliament, nor for any experimental
changes in the Constitution of the country. But when
experience taught that the established forms of the legis-
lature were far behind public intelligence, then changes
ought to take place, and that too upon such a large scale,
as would prevent popular exciteraent.—(Continued
cheers. )—Although he approved of this change, he
was free to admit, that if at any future occasion
the measure of the ballot should be introduced, he should
appose that and all other measure, which might
induce excitement and agitation. To those who
said that there was more danger is going on than
in at moiling still, he would say in the words of Lord
Bacon—" Time is the greatest innovator : and if time, of
course, alter things for the worse, and wisdom and counsel
shall not alter them to the better, what shell be the end?"
—( Hear, and cheers.)
Mr. FRESHFIELD considered the question before the
House one of vital importance. lie wished that the
speeches he had heard from the Lords and Gentlemen on
the opposite side were put in juxta-position with those of
the Right Hon. Baronet below him, and others on his
side, and in that state time reasonings and arguments for
and against the measure were submitted to the public de-
cision. He was rather surprised
cnaie rriy,et,o to hear
:h.vaeelFalnor.t7t_l;el(riclel,Bio.,:m.i,meli.lrißtn(.:;eLginios-
tleman who bad last addressed the House say that it
was inconsistent of those who denounced the measure et
thatnettlnre tos
hi'rgeoehnlt; aleeet
vyfiletrruohslersetdeyocrea sthiamtadold'isreteletigdvrh:iepti";;lai'.i:lel ;chatpower,
Reform....-.(Bear.)—But r m —Mould( ebae r . ) said?
tY
hys
reason which induced them to allow the measure to go
through its first stage, was that the Bill, as the House un-
derstood it, contained so many arrange:news to surprise and
alarm them (the Opposition), that they doubted whether
the speech incorporated all the innovations which the Bill
itself would comprehend. Therefore they had sail, let us
have it in print, and in such a form that we may be able
to discuss it in detail as well as on principle. For instance,
did tke Noble Lotd mean that every mien having a vote as
payer of scot and lot should mernain in possession of the
suffrage to the end of his days ? If that were tle
inten-
tion of the Noble Lord, then theme same he an end.,
f the objects of his Dili his
00C o
claim to a character for cons;steneL to
;
fur
ruht an eb'edn7 d
to ' tree'