The Sun.
London, England, 1838-02-28 00:00:00

was nothing more nor less than an attempt to put down public

opinion.
On the question being put,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that as the Honourable Gentle-
man intended to take a division on this question, he would say
that he ( Lord John Russell) thought it unnecessary to do so,
and would certainly vote against his amendment. He wished
the House to recollect that for some years there had been the
most violent attacks, in language the most abusive, on Mem-
bers of that House—( Hear, hear)—and on persons belonging
to his aide of the House.—( Hear, hear.) He begged the
House also to recollect that, in the autumn of 183t3, the very
word " perjury" was applied to Members of that douse with
only this variation, " treachery, aggravated by perjury ;" and
he begged the House further to recollect that at the time of
these proceedings, he said that he hoped that no Member
would think it necessary to notice them otherwise than by
contempt.—( Hoar, hear.) He was glad also to say that he
House responded at that time to the sentiment, and he hoped
it would new call to mind the forbearance of the Members at
that time so stigmatized.—( Hear.) They did not think it
necessary, although no doubt their feelings were sorely
wounded, to call upon that House for any vindictive proceed-
ings against those who had used the expression. The House
must also recollect that at various times the most violent ex-
pressions had been used, derogatory to the character of several
of the Queen's Ministers, not even in their capacity as public
men, but against their honour as gentlemen—(Hear)—and yet
he could safely say that never, by prosecution or proscription,
by taking away of station or office, did they show any resent-
ment for those expressions.—(Hear.) The state of the case
at present before the House was this :—An Hon. Member of
the House had used most offensive expressions with regard to
a party to which he was opposed. An Hon. Member of that
party brought forward the suliect as a question of privilege,
and the motion was affirmed by 254 Members of that House,
of whom 253 belonged to the assailed party. That was not
the usual mode of deciding on questions of privilege ; and he
must say that when men were accused of perjury, those accused
were not the most proper to put into the jury-box to try the
case.—( Hear.) He derived some consolation from the deci-
sion of the House—marked, as he thought it was, with little
forbearanc©, from the very insignificant nature of the punish.
ment now proposed to be inflicted—( Hear)—a punishment cer-
tainly supported by one precedent, but that one was not one
of great importance—it was one in which a person engaged in
the impeachment of Warren Hastings resented expressions
used by Honourable Members of that House. The other was
the case of Sir Francis Burdett, in which the decision of a
majority negatived the proposal to censure him. But although
he ( Lord J. Russell) did not think those precedents bore
much on the present case, he begged to say that in those ca-
ses the House was gradually improving from a worse kind of
conduct to a better. The ancient opinion of the House was
that any expressions derwaatory; to its dignity should be pu-
nished by imprisonment, but in the opinion of the present day
such vindictiveness was totally ineffective, and the House only
took such notice of the breaches of privilege as directly inter-
fared with its functions, and forbore noticing any other, par-
ticularly when an expression of resentment was not intended
to lead to any other result. —( Hear.) After having adopted
this course for some years, he feared the House was now going
back from better to worse. He might be told that the pre-
sent was the mildest course, but in fact it was little else than
the resolution before adopted. He was afraid that if the pre-
sent motion was persisted in many Members from a motive
of retaliation would revive a system of violent and intem-
perate punishment that had been for many years disused. It
was for this reason that he greatly lamented the course about
to be adopted by the House, particularly in a case in which
the whole House was not affected, but merely that portion of
its Members who formed the majority in this proceeding. He
could see no good from this mode of proceeding. If any con-
sequence followed it must be evil, but he hoped that the Hon.
Members who felt with the Hon. Member for Dublin would
do their best to restrain their feelings, and would refrain from
carrying the matter farther than the present division. He
thought that the only chance of such a proceeding as the pre-
sent ending without any evil and pernicious results was, that
the contest should not be continued after the present vote, and
that the whole House should be satisfied with the decision now
arrived at.—( Hear, hear.)
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. On returning
to the Gallery, we found the numbers to be.—
For the motion
Against it
Majority
The SPEAKER then read the resolution, which was—
" That Mr. O'Connell do appear in his place, to be repris
mended by the Speaker."
Mr. HLTME then observed, amidst much noise and confu-
sion, that other Members had been equally guilty with the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin.

Mr. GILLON—I adopt the words of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin.
Mr. HUME—I beg that the words of the Hon. Member
for Falkirk be taken down.
MARINE OFFICERS.

Considerable buzz and excitement followed Mr. Hume's
motion, in the midst of which
Lord G. L E NNO X got up up, and said—Mr. Speaker, it
is with the greatest regret I find myself obliged to call the
attention of the House to the state of the officers of the Royal
Marines.—[The abruptness of the transition from Mr. O'Con-
nell's breach of privilege to the Royal Marines caused uni-
versal laughter.] When it had subsided the Noble Lord pro-
ceeded to complain of the conduct of Government with re-
spect to those officers. He said that Government had
acknowledged the slowness of promoticn, and promised to
nenedy it. He thought the time was come when this corps
should be made effectual. He regretted that the reduction
of the Marine officers necessarily rendered the corps inef-
fective. It was but fair that this service should be put upon
the same footing with the others, and that the increase in
each should bear some fair proportion. There was no service
in which promotion was so slow, though there was none in
which it was so much called for. In 1837 was their jubilee
year, for there was more promotion in that year than in any
which preceded it, and yet it was nothing in proportion to
what took place in the Artillery Department, and other
branches of the service. The Noble Lord then moved the
following resolution:—" To call the attention of the House
to the slow promotion of the officers of the Royal Marines,
and to move that an humble Address be presented to her Ma-
jesty, praying that her Majesty will be graciously pleased to
take into her gracious consideration the expediency of adopt-
ing some plan to accelerate promotion generally in the corps
of the Royal Marines, so that it may keep pace in a fair and
equitable degree with those branches of her Majesty's forces
whose system of promotion is progressive, and also to take the
case of the Captains of the Royal Marines into her Majesty's
consideration, with a view of placing them upon the same
footing as those of her Majesty's regiments of the line ; and
likewise to provide some measure for the benefit and relief of
those First Lieutenants of the Royal Marines who served
during the late war."
Captain BOLDERO seconded the motion. He observed
upon the difference of promotion in the Navy and the Marines,
though the relative numbers engaged in the service were now
the same as formerly. After the mutiny of the Nore, a mark
of Royal favour was bestowed upon the Marines in the title of
Royal, and in making their Captain's pay equal to that of the
line ; but this was only nominal, for the Captains of the line
had 201. per annum additional, under the title of effective ba-
' lance. The Marines were an injured body, they had per-
formed gallant and brilliant services, which, as in the instance
of the Shannon and the Chesapeake, had never met with ade-
quate reward.
Mr. C. WOOD said that unless a total change were to
take place in the rules of the service, in which promotion went
lay seniority, it would be impossible to reward particular ac-
tions, however brilliant or successful. At the time of Lord
Auckland coming into office tho matter had been taken into
consideration. The first measnre proposed was the retirement
of inefficient officers, and everybody was acquainted with the
fact that there were at that time many inefficient officers in the
corps. Every individual officer pronounced to be unfit was,
on the report being made, placed on full pay, being allowed
to retain his rank. He did not know how, and thought it
quite impossible, to go further. The next step taken was to
encourage the retirement of the commandants, to make way
for the promotion of the other officers. Unless seniority was
to he abandoned be did not see what further steps could be
taken for the acceleration of promotion. He had previously
resisted a similar motion on the ground of its impossibility,
and he now resisted the present motion on the ground of its
being an invasion of the Royal prerogative.

Mr. HUME protested against tho doctrine of Parliamen-
tary interference being unconstitutional. The Marines were
worse treated than any other corps, and he retained the opi-
nion he had previously expressed that it arose from their want
of aristocratic connections. He would place the Marines as
near as possible on the same footing as troops of the line.
The motion was not an interference with the Royal prero-
gative, but a request to her Majesty to exercise the preroga-
tive she possessed.

Sir C. B. VE RE hoped some measure would be adopted
to maintain an ample proportion of officers in the upper classes
of the Marine service.!

Lord W. LENNOX said, what he wished was, to see the
Marine force placed on an equal footing with other corps. In
the Ordnance clause of the Navy Estimates there was a sum
of 4,4901. to be divided among the army and the navy as retir-
ing pensions for officers of superior rank, and yet ho found only
two Major-Generals of the Marines on the list, with only 1501.
a-year each, while two-Rear-Admirals, their juniors in rank
and in standing, had each 350/. A strong case in favour of
the Marine force had been made out, and after the observa-
tions of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, who, as far as the
public money was concerned, was the greatest screw in the
House--( Laughter)—he (Lord W. Lennox) trusted that no
Hon. Member would refuse his assent to the motion of his

Noble Relative.
Sir T. TROUBRIDG E, as a Lord of the Admiralty, had
occasion to make minute inquiries respecting the efficiency of
Marine officers of all classes, with a view to their being placed
on the retired list ; and the result of those inquiries was that,
in the greater number of cases, he could not recommend them.
One of them, the Lieutenant- Colonel of the corps, was in the
act of mounting his horse to manoeuvre the battalion of ma-
rines at the time he arrived there, and he ( Sir T. Troubridge)
would venture to say that no officer could be more efficient.
The same thing occurred among the Captains, one of whom,
though returned as inefficient, was only forty years of age, and
was in the habit of walking twenty miles a day. He was now
in the Mediterranean service. He ( Sir T. Troubridge) with
all his desire to serve the corps, could not, consistenty with his
duty to the country, consent to place these gentlemen on the
retired list. Again, if the motion of the Noble Lord, in re-
gard to the subject of an increase of pay to the Marines, were
to be carried, what would be the consequence ? Why, that
every other branch of the naval service would advance a simi-
, lar claim, and it would not be refused. He concluded by im-
ploring the House to reflect and consider well before they