The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-31 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING,

issues an order compelling the sale of that estate, the pay-
master gives a title against all the world, and the purchaser
has nothing to do with the application of the money. Now,
let me ask you why you cannot apply the same rule to
estates in great arrears of the poor-rate?—(Cheers.) Now
Ibe to call your attention to that. It is proposed that the
arrears on certain estates should ha remitted. I hope they
will not be remitted.—(Cheers.) Now one must, some time
or other, determine whether or no legal obligations imposed on
estates shall be imposed or not.—(llcar, hear.) Ido not
see why, if there be an arrear for poor-rate for a certain time
upon an estate, I do not see why these estates shou'd
not pay the arrear, and if they cannot pay, why you should
not sell a portion of them to cover the amount due.—(Cheers.)
Now, does that enable a commission to sell such portion of
an estate as will be sufficient to pay off the arrears of the
poor-rate, and then enable the commission to give a simple
title against all the world, the purchaser having nothing
whatever to do with the application, the Court of Chancery
hereafter applying the money for the benefit of the rever-
sionary interest, and the benefit of the encumbrancer? Then-
you have the means at once of releasing a certain quantity
of land in Ireland, and inviting new capital and new enter-
prise for the cultivation of it. But let your process be
simple, and let your title be perfectly secure. The arrears
of poor-rates is a lien on the land in Leland, consequently
you have a perfect right, as it appears to me, to releas3 a
portion of that from the incumbrance, and by taking that
course, invite capital, and invite enterprise, and invite small
proprietors. Don't transfer these estates from one insolvent
proprietor to ancther. If you de, you will do no good. This
commission having got these estates, would not throw the
whole on the market at once, but they would enable small
proprietors, with perfect security as to title, to
come and follow the example of that young Lan-
cashire man who cultivates vegetables, lives upon the pro-
duce of the land, and writes home to his friends that he does
not think there is any country in the world more profitable
for investment than the west of Ireland. Now I really
hope that the Commission would succeed greatly in facili-
tating amicable transfers. It would bring parties to-
gether who would be convinced that there is no use in main-
taining the present state of things. The parties would be
broug,lit together, and improvements would be proposed. I
cannot doubt that there would be amicable negotiations on
these points, and if you had the land to dispose of, I believe
you would find not only individuals, but I believe you would
find companies in this metropolis, disposed to follow the ex-
ample of those great companies of London in the reign of
James 1., disposed to do so, less, perhaps, with the hope
of gain than with the hope of making a character by faci-
litating improvements in Ireland. I believe you would
have great companies coaling forward investing capital for
improvements. That, therefore, is my suggestion for this
commission to take into consideration how we can remedy
the present distress, by encouraging drainage, by encou-
raging local improvement, by opening roads to inaccessible
districts, by facilitating the erection of piers for the pur-
pose of the fisheries; by promoting, under sound regula-
tions, emigration—not interfering with voluntary emigra-
tion—above all, addressing themselves to that main
question, the facilitating the transfer of property from in-
solvent to solvent proprietors—directing their whole atten-
tion to this point, to abandon the present injurious system
of giving gratuitous relief, whether in exchange for labour
or not, but reverting to that wiser principle of the Act of
1838, establishing that natural law for the present, and sub-
stituting the only effectual test, the test of the workhouse,
as a proof of poverty and destitution. Sir, I can with pride
say, that I propose this suggestion, in so far as it has refer-
ence to the transfer of property, with the utmost hesitation
as an unprofessional man ; but I am deeply sensible of
the necessity of applying a remedy. I cannot but believe
that if you are convinced of the evil as I am, that common
sense will cut the Gordian knot of legal and technical diffi-
culty—(Cheers)—and that you will at once say, " rather
than let the present state of things continue, we will oust the
jurisdiction of the Court of Chancery, and supply a special
tribunal." You have ousted the jurisdiction of the Court of
Chancery in a hundred places—(A laugh)—and you woulff
not permit a title to be made for five years. Agree on the
principle. Have a tribunal composed of men of the highest
legal authority to decide on the case at once, with a right
of appeal to the parties, and we shall overcome all the diffi—
culties which exist, and I trust to the aid of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman behind (Mr. Napier), and to the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman near me (Mr. Stewart)
who saw the difficulty when this Act passed last
session. I trust to their willing aid in this matter.
Reject this proposition if you will, but propose some other.
If you can do so, I for one will give you my most cordial sup-
port.—( Hear, hear.) Ido net know what any one may ap-
prove of—as many differ from me in this matter—l have riot
sought to know that. I have been governed by nothing but
a deep sympathy for the sufferings of the people of Ireland.
—( Hear, hear.) I have felt that some measure is impera-
tively wanted, not only for the advantage of the people of
Ireland, but for the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.)
Let us remember it is impossible to free ourselves from the
connexion—the expenditure (we understood. Occasionally
the Right Hon. Baronet turned his back to the gallery,
dropped his voice to an undertone, and was occasionally quite
inaudible) must be maintained. The miserable condition of
Ireland is shown by the proceedings at the last Tipperary
Assizes. Only just consider in what manner the destitution
of the Irish people affects the condition of your own
labouring poor, by the emigration to this country,
which you cannot prevent.—(hear, hear.) What is the
consequence of the sweepings of Ireland being poured into
this country? See how it affects the condition of
the labouring classes here. 'lf you could divert this im-
migration into other countries, instead of a mischief, as
now, an immediate benefit would be conferred on Ireland
.and on England. The danger is not so much want
of employment in Ireland, but what is to result from
the invasion of the English labour market by so many Irish
poor. There is one other consideration to which I wish to
draw your attention. You must recollect the condition of
that part of the empire—you must observe its geographical
situation. You must recollect that while in one point of
view Ireland is a source of strength, on the other hand she
will prove a source of great peril and weakness, in the event
of hostilities on the part of a foreign power with this coun-
try.—(Hear, hear.) A great man, whose authority I reve-
rence, has some remarks bearing on this point. Speaking
of the plantation of IT 16ter in -the tithe of 'James, Lord
Bacon remarked " that by adopting the suggestions he had
thrown out, great safety was likely to be given to the King's
estate in Ireland, by preventing those hostile attacks of
foreign powers which the weakness of that part of the
kingdom had heretofore invited.'—(Hear, hear.) This was
written 300 years ago, and it must also be recollected that
in the province of Munster an 1 adjacent parts there were
now four millions of inhabitants, of which 95 parts out of
100 are Roman Catholics.—(lleur, hear.) You have to a
certain extent the sympathy of the landed proprietor, but
then that sympathy has been greatly weakened by the deso-
lation which has occurred, and by the reduced condition of the
proprietors in consequence of the operation of the poor-law.
Lord Bacon said the weakness of that kingdom invited hos-
tile attacks. It is true, we have had the happiness to be
exempted from those dangers which other countries of Eu-
rope have undergone—we have been free from invasion.
But recollect that during the last century, since 1759, on
three different occasions, the attempts of France have been
directed towards that part of the United Kingdom to the
social improvement of which I am attaching so much import-
ance.—(llear, hear.) In 1759 the attempt at invasion of
the west coast of Ireland was only defeated by the de-
struction of the French fleet commanded by Admiral
Couplans, by our fleet under Sir E. Hawke. In 1796 again
a great attempt was made by France to invade that
part of the country wheie now the most distressed unions
are situated. The attempt ou Bantry Bay was only defeated
by the weather. In 1798, in another of those distressed
unions, Killala, a landing was effected, and the first town
visited by them was Balling. A small force of 1,100
men maintained a position in Ireland for 17days, and I think
that the town was in the occupation of the French for a con-
siderable time. I revert to these things for the purpose of
reminding you that peace may not always continue, thatyeu
may have formidable combinations against you, and that
Ireland is the weak part of your empire. And if by any
decisive efforts you can promote the happiness and welfare
of the inhabitants you are nut only promoting her internal
peace and advancing her internal prosperity, but, as Lord
Bacon said, three hundred years ago, you are taking security
that the weakness of that kingdom shall not as heretofore
invite the foreign enemy to our shores.—(Hear, hear.) The
same high authority says " that as in the natural body, if
there be any member affected, it is enough to draw all ma-
lign influences and humours to that part, and to interrupt
the health of the whole body ;" so it- malign influences—
still to quote that emphatic language—if malign influences
humours and rheums continue in the social body, they will
interrupt not only the health of Ireland, but the health of
the whole of the United Kingdom.—(Hear and cheers.) In
the evils which afflict the natural body there may be
means of cure. "If an unprofitable member offend you,
cut it off and cast it from you; if the tree be unfruitful
and cumbereth the ground, you may root it up." But you
have no such remedy for evils that affect the social body.
You must bear with them ; there is no summary remedy.
These evils will continue afflicting Ireland, and affecting you
deeply at the same time. It is your interest to abate them,
if possible.—(Hear, hear.) I will take hope from the extent
of the evil. If nothing of this kind had occurred, we should
have pursued the same course.—(Hear, hear.) We should
never have made up our minds to vigorous exertion to re-
lieve ourselves from the calamity. We should Lave gone on
trusting to the potato, a bad and insufficient food, and every
rear growing more and more insufficient. But it has pleased
God to afflict us with a great calamity, and I do not despair
but that you may convert that calamity, grievous as it is,
into a means of future improvement and future security.—
(Cheers.) I do entreat of you to consider whether, out of
this "nettle, Danger," we may not pluck this "flower,
Safety ;" and convert this grievous affliction into a means of
permanent improvement and a source of future strength.—
(Loud cheers )
Mr. SHAFTO ADAIR had, In the first instance, to ex-
press his great gratification at tee high and statesman-like
views taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat
down.—(Cheers.) And if in the course of his own address
he went still further than the Right Hon. Gentleman in his
views, he trusted he would give him the benefit of his sug-
gestions and great practical experience. He rose to address
the House as one representing an English constituency—as
one who was intimateiy connected with both countries—
and who would not designate himself an English or Irish-
man, but a British subject. As one, however, intimately
connected with that portion of Ireland in which an active
opposition was evinced towards the rate in aid, he should
implore the lions° to consider that they were now ap-
proaching one of the most important subjects which could
come under their consideration. Ho would put it to the
sound portions of Ireland, if it were not as much their
interest to contribute towards the relief of the poor, as it
was for one hundred in England to support the poor of an-
other. As to the repayment of the workhouse loans already
advanced, he should not insist on that being done, on the
principle of mutual forbearance, and that such a demand,
under present circumstances, would be highly injurious. It
appeared to him that the money raised by the rate in aid
should, if possible, be administered by vice-guardians; or, if
by local guardians, that at least a paid public officer, respon-
sible to the Government, should be associated with them.
And as it was of the utmost consequence that no arrears of
rates should be suffered to accrue, he would not have recourse
to a rate in aid until the ordinary poor-rates were not only
levied but collected ; and if that was found impossible, lie
agreed with the Right Honourable Gentleman the Member
fur Tamworth, that all estates on which such rates
were due should be sold for the amount. Much had
been said as to the inefficacy of the rate in aid to
meet the exigencies of the case; but he was not inclined to
think that the probable sum raised would not prove sufli-
uient for all purposes. It had been argued at great length
that the measure'was not of a temporary nature; and if that
were so, he should not support it;
,and he thought that an
intimation ought to be given to that House and the
country at large, that it should not be continued for a
longer period. The Hon. Gentleman then referred to the
16th report of the Poor-law Commissioners, as showing
the extreme destitution in the west of Ireland. Upon
considering the circumstances of these districts the House
must come to the conclusion that a measure was necessary
of a more general nature than that submitted by the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Tamworth. The "lon.
Gentleman here entered into various comparative estimates
of the solvency of these local distriet-a-and drevillid conclu-
sion that the western districts were every day sinking lower
in their present state. of destitution; some great and ceoatrn.
prehensiTe memo Tray therefore nemiary.—(Hear, hear.