The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-05 00:00:00

to any measure which would give greater power to the Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin than that which he already
possessed, or increase the tyranny he already exercised in

Ireland.
Mr. WARD rose amidst loud cries of " Question." He
could honestly assure the House that he had not the slightest
intention at the commencement of the debate to obtrude him-
self upon them. The tone of moderation adopted by the
Right Hon. Baronet led him to hope that this discussion
might terminate in an amicable manner.—( Hear, hear.) He
was, however, delighted to see that it had at last assumed its
proper character.—( Cheers.) He was delighted to hear the
Hon. Member for Bridport put the question upon a more real
and honest footing. That Hon. Member, disclaiming all
those professions of moderation of which the Speech of the
Right Hon. Baronet was composed, declared distinctly that
to his unreasonable apprehensions of the power of one indi-
vidual in Ireland, he would sacrifice every thing like that of
justice which was due to the Irish people.—(Opposition cries
of " No" and " Question," and cheers from the Ministerial
benches.) This was the question. He would not have Hon.
Gentlemen who had been taunting—out of the House, where
they knew they could not be met by contradiction or expo-
sure—those independent Members who supported the present
Government with having formed an unprincipled coalition
and conspiracy, and of truckling to the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin, think 'that they were to avail them-
selves of this discussion to persuade the country that the
principles which they professed here were really the prin-
ciples which were the rule of their conduct. (Cheers.)
The Honourable Member for Bridport had put the question
upon a proper footing. He denied justice to Ireland—( No,
no)—because he would not establish a tyranny in the
person of the Hon. and
.Learned Member for Dublin—(Mr.
Hardy—l did not say any such thing.) This was of a piece
with the-language which had been held by the party, and
by the parties themselves whenever they had had an opportu-
nity to express their opinions during the last six months.
Never:had there been an attempt by, any political party, or
by any party press to run down an individual made to such
an extent as had been made by the Tories and the Tory
press to run down the Hon. and Learned Member for Dub-
Ministerial cheers, and Opposition cries of " No, no !")
Every thing connected with the party which that Hon. and
Learned Gentlemen represented, everything connected with
their name and fame—things the most sacred and most holy
—had been made the subjects of the most disgraceful scurri-
lity--( Hear, hear, hear !)—by the organs of the Tory party.
The House had been told by Hon. Gentlemen opposite that
they were not responsible for the language of that portion
of the press which was in their interest. He trusted that no
party spirit could by any possibility plant such sentiments as
had been expressed by that portion of the press in the
breasts of Englishmen —( Cheers.) If the parties who ap-
plied such language to eight millions of their Irish country-
men, after reading, as he had done, the Reports of the
Irish Poor Law Commissioners, describing the complica-
tion of miseries to which thousands of them were exposed,
many absolutely starving in the midst of plenty, men,
their wives and children, sinking under their sufferings,
and yet abstaining from all violence to the property sur-
rounding them, and seeking only that consolation in this world
which their religion afforded—if those parties who vilified the
clergy administering such consolation denied that the religion
they taught was imbued, and deeply imbued, with the spirit
of Christianity, then he would say those men knew not what
the spirit of Christianity was.—(Cheers.) He knew not
whether the pledge to is hich the Right Hon. Baronet ob-
jected in the Address might have been avoided—or whether a
more general expression might or might not, in the first in-
stance, have been used; but the question was whether, having
given that pledge,' and having distinctly professed that we
were ready, as the representatives of England, to give Ire-
land the benefit of the same principle which we were enjoying
in our own country, we should now as distinctly withdraw that
pledge ?—( Hear, hear.) If the majority of that House was
prepared, as he believed they were, to apply the same princi-
ple of Municipal Reform to Ireland as had been applied to
England and Scotland, and which had given such unqualified
satisfaction to the people—if a majority were prepared to go
to that extent, he did not conceive, without stultifying them-
selves, that they could retrace their steps. He thought it
was a question of substance, and not, as the Hon. Member for
Bridport, had said, a mere matter of form. He thought if
Isis Majesty's Government, who had advised his Majesty to in-
troduce that pledge in the Speech from the Throne, would
stand forth and support the course which they had so advised,
he might assure them that they might reckon upon the joint
support of. every independent man in the House.—(Cheers,
and loud cries of " Question ! ") •
Colonel SIBTHORP considered himself as independent
a Member as the Hon. Member for St. Alban's, and was
guided by no party feelings.—( Laughter, and cries of "Hear.")
He had as much respect for the Throne as that Hon. Member ;
but he must consider that the words iatroduced into his Ma-
jesty's Speech were neither more nor legs than a trap to draw
the House into a snare. A more miik and water, a more
absurd, or a more delusive Speech, never came from any Mi-
nistry of this country ; and he did not think it worth consi-
deration.—(Laughter, and" Hear, hear.") The Noble Lord
opposite and his colleagues knew that they were now paying
the must abject submission to the Hon. and Learned Member
for. Dublin, without whose powerful support and alliance they
would be' very quickly ejected from their places.—( Hear,
aear, and much laughter.) This they knew well ; for there
was not half so much talent among the whole of the Adminis-
tration as there was in that Hon. and Learned Member.—
( Cheers, and laughter.)
Loud cries of " Question." Strangers were ordered to
withdraw, and the doors were closed for a division; but the
gallery was acsain opened, and on our return we found
Mr. O'C (NNE LL, addressing the House, and observing
that he had been so distinctly alluded to during the debate,
that that alone would excuse him for protracting the discus-
sion ; but he did not want that excuse, bedause he had another
and a better: the question before them was one interesting in
the highest degree to the people of Ireland. It was a ques-
tion whether you were really doing injustice to that country—
whether you were disposed to continue that injustice, or
whether you would express a hope of treating Ireland as
England and Scotland had been treated ? That was the ques-
tion. He knew right well that there were many and many
who, out of Ireland, though they would not dare to declare
that they would refuse to do her justice, though they were
ashamed to say they would perpetuate the injustice now done
to her, yet were ready enough to consummate the effect.
—( Hear, hear, hear.) England had never done justice to
Ireland !—( Oh, oh ! from the Opposition.) Never—( Minis-
terial cheers, and cries of " Ob, oh l" front the Opposition.)
Ireland had obtained concessions from England—nay, she
had extorted some recent measures of justice from her,
measures which bad been refused by men upon principle, and
afterwards conceded by them against their own avowed prin-
ciples. The Right Hon. Baronet had talked to-night
about not exactly understanding what was meant by principle.
Why, he believed him.—( Loud cheers.) That Right Hon,
Gentleman had for years been the advocate upon a Christian
principle of that policy of exclusion which was so long
directed against Roman Catholics, but he yielded to us when
we were strong enough to make it prudent that he should do
so.—(Loud cheers.) Concessions to the Roman Catholics of
Ireland were never made till their demand became irresistible,
and here was he now again calling for justice to Ireland.—
( Cheers.) There was a coalition to-night—not a base or un-
principled one, God forbid but an exceedingly natural coali-
tion between the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) and the
Noble Lord; the Member for South Lancashire—( A voice,
" North Lancashire")—well, North Lancashire, he cared
not.—(Laughter.) It was a perfectly natural, but it was an
impromptu coalition.—( Laughter. ) The Noble Lord had not
the least notion of taking a part in this debate when he came
down to-night, or of seating himself where lie now sat.—
(Cheers.) [Lord Stanley was sitting next to Sir R. Peel on
the front seat of the Opposition Benches.] He (Mr. O'Con-
nell) knew the Noble Lord's candour and fair dealing, and
having told the House of the sudden inspiration which induced
him to take a part against Ireland, be (Mr. O'Connell) most
potently believed him, because he well knew that the Noble
Lord required no preparation to induce him to vote against
the interests of Ireland.—(" Oh, oh," from the Opposition
benches.) He thanked them for that groan, it was just of a
piece.—( Hear, hear.) He regretted that he had been drawn
at once into arguing upon the principle of the question, for he
could hare wished to dwell upon that Speech which had been
graciously delivered from the Throne this day. He should
like to have gone into details, and to have pointed to the
many excellent amendments in the institutions of the country
which that Speech hinted at.—( Cheers.) Last Session, in-
deed, they were told that many reforms were intended for
Ireland. They had them in, words, and nothing mere. But
the Speech specified distinctly many excellent practical mea-
sures ; and if the Speech should be worked out fairly and
honestly, in detail, he was thoroughly convinced that this
country would not require any further ameliorations in its in-
stitutions, but would become, in reality, the envy and admira-
tion of the world.—(Cheers.) He therefore hailed that
Speech. It was rot, as it was said King's Speeches generally
were—a multiplicity of words to conceal a paucity of things—
that Speech had more things than words.—( Cheers.) It
pointed out many great principles which only required to be
adopted in practice to be most salutary, not only to this nation,
but to the whole world. He would not detain the House by
any lengthened remarks upon that Speech : but he would gust
remind them, that while rejoicing in the cordial eonlioetion
that existed between France and this country, his Majesty's
Ministers clearly and distinctly abstained from esteiting the
slightest supposition that they approved of any Ministry pro-
pounding an alteration of the law for tho suppression of
public liberty— (Cheers)—and for putting an end to public
discussion—which as individuals they might reprobate, and
which he did reprobate, but which as Statesmen they had
properly abstained from introducing into that Speech.—
(Cheers.) He wanted to know whether there was any States-
man who would get up in that House and would express his
approval of that act of the Government of France ?—(Loud
cheers.) It might be done out of that House—(l-lessr,
hear)—but the Government had wisely abstained from
doing anything of that kind, and had contented themsc):ves with
expressing their exultation that France and Eitglar
to-
gether for the maintenance of those principle& na stood
sential to national independence and pu'.;lie lib
......at(wcehreeeress.-)
The Speech then alluded to Spain„We
the Queen of Spain. Don Cssdos were the allies of
but bo':ind by inclin on __(
amongst us—(hear, hear, ';,ear)—not na'ottimi-7-i°r, had some allies
otiund by treaty—no—
against treaty., ls
were thona.tex
.'use aWhy,
allies ephofrsteheinpu
a,r:mdhos7r. Who)
commonsom
scthilryei
11. d not mean to apply offensively, most bitter Prote‘tvslitasictnrhti
this House were allied with Don Carlos, who had re-esta-
blished the inquisition, and who was most observant of the
ceremonieswaabenlc:e wagngtion_the established religion of Spain,
and
who
war against his own country.—
(Hear, hear, hoar.) This war ought to be put an end to.
Two. or three British battalions would soon put an end to it.
—(Opposition laucrhter and cheers from the
o Ministerial