The Sun.
London, England, 1838-01-18 00:00:00

appeared to him to be impossible to say that it was a fit time
for separation. Ile trusted that, if the Bill moved for by the
Noble Lord were carried into effect, means might be found of

uniting our North American provinces, and combining the
Canadas, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick into a federal

Government.

Mr. GILL ON was glad to find that the subject had
been treated as all such subjects ought to be treated,
without asperity. He could not agree to one of the rea-
sons assigned for deferring the redress of the grievances
of the Canadians, namely, that we had been compelled to
defer our measures of reform and improvement at home.
Nor could he concur in the eulogium which had been pro-
nounced on our colonial system, which had always been
one of corruption and jobbing. The grievances of the
Canadian people had been frequently acknowledged, but
they had never been redressed. He certainly regretted the
course which certain individuals in Canada had pursued ; but
if a dismemberment of the empire were to be the result, it
ought to be attributed to the coercive resolutions which were
agreed to by the House last spring. It must be acknowledged
that the long-protracted refusal to redress their grievances was
some excuse for the irritation which the Canadians had felt

and expressed. Nor could he see what confidence they could
repose in future promises when past promises to them had been
so grossly violated. He had always entertained a high respect
for the Noble Lord who was about to go out to administer
the affairs of Canada. That Noble Lord's name had always
been quoted as that of a steady advocate of the rights of the
people, and was a rallying point for the friends of Reform.
But, trammelled as the Noble Lord would be by the circum-

stance of carrying with him a Bill for the suspension of the
Canadian Constitution, he (Mr. Gillon) was apprehensive
that the Noble Lord might not find it very easy to carry into

effect the objects of his mission. He was happy to hear the
Noble Lord on the Treasury Bench speak, as he had last
night done, of the wisdom of abstaining from severity, and
of taking the road of clemency and conciliation. Among the
religious portions of the community in this country there
existed a deep feeling to the same effect.
Mr. BORT HWIC K, although he admitted that her Ma-
jesty's Government had not saictioned the rebellion in Lower
Canada, maintained that if they had taken proper measures
they might hare prevented it. Nor could he look at the ques-
tion of the insurrection of Canada as an isolated one. To
him it appeared to be intimately coniected with occurrences
nearer home. To show that there was a community of feel-

ing between the insurgents in Canada and other persons in
this country, he need only refer to the language which had
been used at the meeting at the Crown and Anchor—a meet-
ing at which the lion. Member for Kilkenny, a Member of
that House, and claiming to be loyal, had presided. That
language was of the most inflammatory description. One of
the speakers had exclaimed,
" In freedom let Canadians live,

And brave the death that tyrants give."
A Gallant Colonel, once a Member of that House, had talked
at the same meeting of the justification which was to be found
for the Canadians in that page of our history which related
something that had once taken place in the neighbourhood
of Whitehall, the sight of which consequently gave to every
Sovereign who saw it a crick in the neck. Why, what con-
struction but one could the law officers of the Crown put
upon such expressions? Yet such treasonable expressions,
evidently involving a threat against her Majesty the Queen
of England, were unchecked by the Honourable Gentleman
who was in the chair on the occasion he alluded to (and who
by his silence gave then his sanction), and were left unno-
ticed and unpunished by her Majesty's ministers, and the law-
advisers of the Crown ! Were they living in times of such se-
curity that such sentiments as these could be tolerated with
impunity ? An Honourable Member had adverted to the state
of Ireland, and having said that if Mr. O'Connell were no
longer the agitator of that country, a dozen O'Connells would
start up to supply his place, observed that if Papineau were to
cease to exist, a number of persons of his principles would be
found to take up his principles. Now, why was this said,
if it were not felt that there was a very strong analogy between
the cases of Canada and Ireland, and between the conduct of
Mr. O'Connell, and that of Mr. Papineau? He thought that
the Government "had themselves to thank for the existing
state of things in Canada, not on account of the resolutions of
last year, but because they had given an encouragement to the
malcontents in the colony, which enabled them to attain such
a bead as at last to bid defiance to the power and authority of
the parent state. Amicable separation had been spoken of.
There were two objections to such a course : first, because
this was not a time for amicable separation ; second, because
it would be unwise in England to allow herself to be
bearded by a colony, and to proclaim on the face
of Europe and the world that to obtain a separation
from the parent state it was only necessary for a province to
demand it at the cannon's mouth. He should vote in favour
of the proposition for bringing in a Bill to suspend the Consti-
tution of Canada until effectual measures had been taken to
bring the insurgents into a state of subjection. Had the
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth remained in
office the present crisis would never have arrived. But let
the Ministry now beware that the spirit of rebellion was not
confined to Canada, but had extended to districts nearerhome.
Let them beware that it had developed itself in language
which could not be mistaken in the neighbourhood of London.
If the Hon. and Gallant Officer (Colonel Thompson) to
whom he had previously referred, really used the language
attributed to him in the report, then he (Mr. Borthwick)
said that the law officers of the Crown had been guilty of aid-
ing and abetting high treason in not taking notice of it. He
(Mr. Borthwick) cared not what consequences might ensue to
himself for the use of these words. In the presence of the
House, of the country, and of God, be declared that he be-
lieved they were so guilty. He stated that opinion firmly
and fearlessly. If the Gallant Officer did not use the words
attributed to him, then the newspapers, in giving publicity to
such language were liable to the same charge, and then it
became the duty of the law officers of the Crown to bring
the editors of those newspapers to trial for high treason.
Mr. D. BROWN would not follow the histrionic speech
of the Honourable Member, nor would he argue the judici-
ousness of sending either the Honourable Member for Kil-
kenny or Colonel Thompson to the Tower; nor would he in-
stitute a comparison between the Honourable Member for
Dublin and Mr. Papineau. He though indeed that there was
an essential difference between them, one advocating a phy-
sical and the other a moral agitation, but he would try to ad-
here to the subject-matter of debate. He rose with reluctance
to address the House, and should not have done so, only
fearing, as the Irish Members had taken little part in the de-
bates regarding Canada, that it might be supposed they were
apathetic respecting the interests of that colony, and did not
sympathise in the sufferings of its people. The simple cir-
cumstance of being an Irishman was a sufficient excuse, as on
account of a sad association in misfortune Ireland and Canada
had been placed in a companionship. Similar, if not identi-
cal, grievances, harassed and humbled them together. They
knelt together before the same bar of British justice , they
had been dismissed together with contumely and insult ; and
now, when they appeared again to seek their just rights,
though not in the same companionship of humility, though
not in the same attitude of prayer—lreland in that of sup-
plication, Canada in armour—it must lee excusable in even
the humblest representative of the Irish people to express his
sentiments in a debate which so deeply involved the fortunes
of those who were fellow-sufferers with his countrymen, and
to take an interest in the struggle, in which their rulers might
be taught a lesson which wisdom learned from experience
might induce them to apply to his country. He hoped the
Hon. Member for Dublin would denounce the resolutions as
contrary to the great principle of civil and religious liberty
which he had ever advocated, and that the Hon. Member for
Tipperary would prove upon this occasion that his estimate of
justice was not measured by local prejudices and party antipa-
thies, and that he did not wish that it should be limited to the
boundaries of Ireland alone. The case of the two countries
was nearly identical : in both there was a " monopolising
miserable minority," and in both a powerful party in that
House ready to pander to their wishes.—( Cries of " Hear,
hear.") Canada was in a worse position, for while Ireland
had only to contend with Honourable Gentlemen opposite,
Canada had opposed to it the powerful force produced by
the unnatural alliance of those Tories who were the avowed
enemies, and those Whigs who were the avowed cham-
pions of Reform. He always regarded an union between
Whigs and Tories with much distrust, for then he appre-
hended some powerful resistance to the wishes of the people,
if not some violent encroachment on public liberty.—( Hear.)
He considered the conduct of her Majesty's Government with
respect to Canada, was unwise, unconstitutional, and timid
withal. It was unwise, because contrary to the opinions of all
great statesmen : it endeavoured to govern a colony on the
principle of coercion. It was obviously unconstitutional,
because the resolutions of the Noble Lord invaded the Con-
stitution of 1791 ; and it was timid, because, while it had po-
pularity for its aim and oppression for its end, it had not the
firmness of purpose to pursue the one or enforce the other. What
the people of England must consider in this war, for war it
would be if the sense of wrong continued, however the present
efforts might be crushed, was this :—first, if it were a just
war; next, it being just, if it were likely to be attended with
success ; and lastly, if successful, if it were likely to confer
on England a benefit commensurate with the blood and trea-
sure it would cost ?—( Hear, hear.) To ascertain if it
were a just war they must define what principles should
direct the mother country in her guardianship of the co-
lonies, for that was the proper term to express the rela-
tionship between them. For his part, he thought they should
extend to the colony that liberal policy which would enable
it as soon as possible to maintain its independence, and we
should govern it with that grace which would induce it, when
free, to seek a friendly intercourse with the parent State.
When they did separate—for separate they must in the course
of time, to repeat the opinion of the Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for North Lancashire—let it not be by a sudden convul-
sion, dangerous and degrading to either the one or the other,
but let it be by mutual arragement, which would promote the
interest and honour of both. Sir James Mackintosh had
stated " That a colony should have permission to conduct the
whole of its internal affairs, compelling them to pay all the
reasonable expenses of their Government, and giving them at
the same time a perfect control over the expenditure of the
money ;" and he further said, that "in the government of the
colonies nothing is lost in yielding to the wishes of the people
when expressed by their representatives." 11Ir. Fox said, "With
regard to foreign colonies, he was of opinion that the power
of the Crown ought to be kept low ; it was impossible to fore-
see what would be the state of a distant colony at a distant
time. But in giving them a Constitution, it was our duty as
well as our interest to give them as much liberty as we could
—to render them happy, flourishing, and as little dependent
as possible; indeed, he thought the more despotic the Consti-
tution we gave a colony, the more we made it the interest
of that colony to get rid of our Constitution ; and it was evi-
dent the American States had revolted, because they did not
consider themselves sufficiently free." And in another place
he said, applying himself immediately to Canada, that " he
conceived the only mean, of retaining a distant Colony with

advantage was to enable it to govern itself." Now, he (Mr
Browne.) would ask, did not the resolutions of the Neble Lord
invade those principles of Colonial Legislation ? Far from
extending to Canada a more liberal policy than was extended
to the British people, did not her Majesty's Government, in
thrusting their hands into the public chest, do what they
dared not do in England ? Bring the matter home—suppose
the Executive could last year have paid itself, what would
have been the consequence ? They would have had a Tory
Administration ; the King was avowedly a Tory, and he
would have called the Tories to his Councils ; but they were
not sufficiently disinterested to obey the call, as the people
would not pay them.—( Cheers. ) Had the present Govern-
ment, in refusing to grant to the people an Elective Legis-
lative Council, acted in accordance with the opinions of Sir
J. Mackintosh and those other Statesmen who told them to re-

ceive their principles of Government from the recommenda-
tion of the people ? They deviated from those opinions, and
proved that no good arose from doing so. Their only argu•
ment was an obstinate adhesion to the Constitution, not be-

cause it was a good, but because it was the old Constitu-
tion.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble Lord opposite
had said, " How ill the Legislative Council had discharged
their office they might judge from the papers before them ;
the Members of the Council on every occasion had enrolled
themselves on the side of Government against the wishes of

the people ; they stood as an impotent screen oetween the Go-
vernment and the people—they neither repelled the people on
the one hand, nor the Government on the other. But while
they enabled the one to keep up a war against the other, they
were the means of a continued system of jarring and conten
tion. This council was the worst of all the evils which had
taken place in the Administration here for the last fifteen
years." That was the opinion of the Noble Lord who now so
warmly advocated the continuance of that Council, and the
usurpations of the Executive.—( Hear, hear.) The only bens
fit that could be derived from oppression was the moral instruc
tion which it brought to posterity ; for, as success must even-
tually attend the right, such acts of oppression, as procuring
the triumph of liberty, while they held out a bright example to
the people, taught at the same time a striking lessen to impro-
vident monarchs and a reckless aristocracy ; and when they
viewed them through the vista of the past, and with the eye of
memory, they stood as islands rising above the proper level of
justice on which history had erected beacon lights to guide the
giddy vessel of the state.—(Cheers.) He did not wish defeat
to attend the arms of his Sovereign. He wished victory to
crown them when directed against the natural enemies of the
state and the Sovereignty of England.—(Cheers.)
Mr. BROTHE RT ON wished justice to be done, but de-
precated a resort to arms. A State ought to ponder long and
seriously before it involved itself in war. He felt now, as he
had done in the case of Ireland, great difficulty and embarrass-
ment in voting for the suspension of the Constitution of
Canada. He approved highly of the appointment of Lord
Durham, but thought that that nobleman ought to be sent out
untrammelled by a coercive Bill.
Mr. LUCAS rose in consequence of the appeal which had
been made by the Hon. Member for Mayo (Mr. D. Brown)
to the Irish Members. That Hon. Member has endeavoured
to draw a parallel between the cases of Ireland and Canada.
He (Mr. Lucas) thought the only point of connection between
them was this : that for the last only
years the tide of emigra-
tion from Ireland to Canada had been encouraged by every
successive Government, and that a large amount of Mali po-
pulation had, in consequence, settled in the transatlantic pro-
vince. This part of the Canadian population was industrious,
loyal, and ardently attached to the British Government as
long as the British Government would support them.—.
(Hear, hear.) For their sake, therefore—for the sake of that
large and valuable body of his countrymen, he (Mr. Lucas),
when appealed to by the lion. Member for Mayo, must be al-
lowed to raise his voice and to protest against the relinquish..
ment of the colony.—( Hear, hear. )
Major M ACNAM AR A entirely coincided in the opinion
stated by the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down.
Mr. CLAY could not abstain from expressing the great
pleasure he had felt at the able and eloquent speech of the
Hon. Member for Bridport (Mr. Warburton), in many of the
calm and temperate suggestions of which he fully coincided.
There were, however, some points upon which he could not
agree with the Hon. Member. Tae Hon. Member for Brid.
port, although he did not defend the insurgents in Canada,
evinced a disposition to palliate their conduct. Now he (Mr.
Clay) thought that the insurrection in the Province was ut-
terly without justification, excuse, or palliation.—( Cheers.)
Many of the grievances of whch the French Canadians
complained had been redressed, and all things appeared to
be going on in a fair course before the revolt. It was per-
fectly clear that the Canadians never wanted able advocates
in the Imperial Parliament ; and it was equally clear that, by
making use of those weapons only which a free and re-
presentative Constitution had placed in their hands, they
might have obtained redress of all the grievances of which
they complained. They had no right to avail themselves of
the power of stopping the supplies, and force on an organic
change of the Constitution of 1791, which must be held to
be, in its essential qualities, in the nature of a compact
between that colony and the parent state. There was no
parallel or fair analogy between the power which they had
exerted in stopping the supplies, and that power which could
be wielded by the Imperial Parliament. It appeared to him
that in the conduct of the insurrection there never was a
bad cause less ennobled either by wisdom in council or bold-
ness in action. The leaders of the insurrection had not
manifested any of those qualities that were calculated to make
them fitting leaders of a great and independent nation.—
( Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman then adverted to the conduct
of Lord Gosford, and observed that if that Noble Lord had
made any mistake in his conduct, it had been a mistake on the
right side. He might have been too slow, but if he had erred
it had been a noble error, and one which would meet with ap-
proval from the representatives of a free people. With re-
gard to the plan proposed by the Noble Lord (Lord John
Russell), it had his entire concurrence. It appeared to him
to be the only course which could be taken with any prospect
of success; and he believed its adoption would tend to pro-
mote the peace and happiness of the Colonists.—( Question,
question I)
Mr. JAMES expressed his great satisfaction at the appoint-
ment at the Earl of Durham on the mission upon which he
was shortly to proceed. He felt persuaded that if any man
could settle the unfortunate differences that now existed be-
tween the provinces of Canada and the mother country, that
Noble Lord, from his sound judgment and great talents, would
succeed in that most desirable object. He fully concurred in
the Ministerial proposition. The question would no doubt
have assumed a totally different shape if the whole of the North
American provinces had been, like the great majority of Lower
Canada, desirous of a separation ; but when he found that New
Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Upper Canada, were all anxious
to retain their connection with this country, that was a suffi-
cient reason with hire to oppose emancipating any of the Ame-
rican provinces from their present allegiance to the British
Sovereign.—( Hear, hear, and cries of " Question.")
Sir HUSSEY VIVIAN addressed the House in vindicate
tion of the conduct pursued by Colonel Wetherell and the
British troops in Lower Canada, and repelled the charges
made against that gallant officer, and justified the steps taken
to repress the revolt in that colony. In answer to the allega-
tion that the British troops had burned the houses of the Ca-
nadians, together with their inmates, he begged to say that
there was no statement of any such circumstance having taken
place throughout the whole of the papers which had been laid
before Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) It was true that a barn
was destroyed by fire by the soldiers ; but up to the present
moment it did not appear that a single individual was in the
barn at the time. When this question was discussed on a for.
mer occasion, he was sorry to hear it held forth as as argu-
ment for giving up the Canadian Colonies, that, by possie.
bility, the British soldiers would be induced, by improper mo-
tives, to quit their colours, and that they would look to the
spoliation of the British settlers in Canada as an advantage
that would compensate them for deserting their country. He
( Sir Hussey Vivian) should like to know when the time was
that British soldiers were influenced by such base motives ?
( Cheers.) It was perfectly well known that in the army in.
Canada great desertion took place. The habits and facilities
afforded by the proximity of the United States, and the advan-
tages which were held out to the troops, led to that desertion,
He knew that during the time he was in Ireland, the depots
there had to send out twice the number of troops ever,/ year
to the Canadas that they had to any other part of the ritish
dominions. But what was the fact now ? Why, that of late
years the troops had not deserted ; and he would venture to
say that when the troops should be called upon to do their
duty to their country, so far from desertion, every man would
be found to stand firm and hold fast by those colours to
which he was pledged equally by his honour and his oath.—
(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for Kilkenny had said that
no preparations were made by the Colonial Government to
anticipate and prevent the revolt, and that the people were
driven to insurrection. Now, he (Sir Hussey Vivian) would
not trouble the House by going through the various des.
patches that were before them, but he would, without quoting
the passages, declare that they most satisfactorily proved that.
every preparation was made that the circumstances of the:
colony required. The Hon. Member for Kilkenny (said Sir
Hussey Vivian) has constantly stated in this House that ke
had foretold the revolt that had taken place in the Caawaian
provinces. Now I beg to assure the Hon. Member that I
know no man who had a greater right to foretel it tnan the
Honourable Gentleman himself.—(Loud criea of
I recollect the letters of the Hon. Member._( Hear, hear,
hear.) I recollect also the speeches of the Honourable
Member.—( Hear, hear.) Why, Sir, we all know perfectly
well the story of a person whose name was Martin, who fore-
told that York Cathedral would be burnt, and that he then
went and set it on fire—(Loud laughter)—and I really
can-
not help thinking that the Honourable Member has himself
greatly contributed to fulfil his own prophecy.—( Hear, near.
The lion. and Gallant Officer then adverted to the policy
pursued by Lord Gosford, and contended that that Noble
Lord had proceeded on the principle of reconciliation as far as
it was possible. Looking from the beginning to the end
of these dispatches it would be seen that Lord Gosford's in.
structions were to do everything that he possibly could to
render justice to the Canadians, and to conciliate the feelings.
of the people of that country. He believed that the present
disturbed state of those provinces was entirely owing totsess
melancholy existence of a strong party in that country init.:lice
to the connection with England ; but he hoped and trusted
that the feelings of the people generally were in favour of
continuing that connection. Ile would not now refer to
the question of the emancipation of the coloaieee. The day
might probably come when emancipation might be necessary.
But he should be sorry to see a great nation like this give
up its colonies because a party in those colonies chose
to revolt. But it was said that the present was a question
of justice towards the colonists. He admitted that it was so;
and he would ask the Hon. Member for Kilkenny whether lies
thought that Lower Canada was now in a fit state to be eman-
cipated—whether, in justice to the British settlers there and
those who inhabited Upper Canada, it was possible to grant
emancipation and prevent a civil Naar from taking place ?