The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-24 00:00:00

HOUSE OF I.(ilips, April 23.
The Bishop of 0, oitcEsTER pro t mcd several peti-
tions in faT.ur of tit, Pr,.venti,)n of Sr thwtion

Tne E al of HARROW BY prcscrodl several i;etitions
praying fim an Amendment of the laws rqulatitlg;
beer sli,p;;.
SALE OF LANDS (NEW SOUTH WALES) BILL.
O. tle .autitin of Earl GREY this 8.11 was ruai
second time.
ST. JOHN'S, NEWFOUNDLAND, REBUILDING

BILL.
Earl GREY moved the second reading of this Bill.—
Agreed to.
AFFAIRS OF THE RIVER PLATE.
The Earl of HARROWBY moved for copies of all
instructieus given to British envoys to the repuv_ lies
situated on the River Plate since the instructions issued
to Ouse ley in 1846. Since tl at period we have
had no information officially of what was going for-
ward on the affairs of the River Plate, although
we had two formal missions to and two irregular
communications with General Rosas, the President of
the Argentine Republic. The mission of Mr. Ouseley,
who a as sent out in conjunction with a French envoy, was
unsuccessful; the missions of Lord Ilowden and of all the
other envoys had been equ illy so. The last envoy, Mr.
Southern, had not been ufficially received, although he
had been permitted to revile in a private house, and the
President of the Argentine Confederation had offered an
insult to Great Britain such as had Lever before been
offered to ber. He wished to have official information on
this subject, and that was the reasoli why he now moved
for those papers. At present they knew nothing offi-
cially. All they knew was, that,the interference of the
two most powerful actions in Europe had been treate d
with contumely by the President of the Argentine Con-
federation. Those negotiations were now over and
completed, and there could, therefore, be no ground for
withholding information. They had heard mysteri-
ously, from papers communicated to the Legislatures of
other states, that the contending parties were willing to
accept certain bases, termed "Hood's bases," with cer-
tain modifications; but what those bases or modifications
were they did not know. It had been the policy of the
President of the Argentine Confederation to create a
feeling of jealousy between the two mediating powers,
and he feared that to a certain extent he had succeeded
in sowing discord between the two nations on that
question. Lord Howden hag gone over to Buenos
Ayres in the beginning of 1847, remained there in nego-
tiation with the President Rosas for a considerable time,
and at last, being dissatisfied with the ill-progress of
those negotiations, had crossed the water and gone to
Monte Vick o. There he communicated with the Presi-
dent of Monte Video, and announced to him that having
failed in effecting a settlement with Rosas, he proposed
to address himself to the military commander of the army
besieging Monte Video. He accordingly went to Gen.
Oribe, and proposed a convention, to which, however,
that General refused to accede, except on certain modi-
fications being made. Lord Howden, then, without fur-
ther communication with Monte Video, declared his mis-
sion at an end, and abruptly quitted the River Plate.
This was most extraordinary conduct on the part of
Lord Howden. In a letter which he sent to
the English Government, one of the grounds he alleged
was, that the Government was in the hands
of foreigners. But it had been known for a long
while that there was in Monte Video a great num-
ber of foreigners, but that had not caused interfer-
ence on the part of the English Government. Looking
at the result of that interference, he thought he was en-
titled to ask for information. All that he knew at pre-
sent was, that two of the most powerful Governments in
Europe had been compelled to give way to General
Rosas in a way in which they had never done before.
President Rosas distinctly stated that the blockade was
raised with the approbation of her Majesty's Govern-
ment; bet, from all he had heard, that approbation was
not felt in France, where the intelligence had caused
very considerable dissatisfaction and discontent, and it
was also rumoured that this dissatisfaction had been ex-
pressed to Members of her Majesty's Government. The
House, therefore, had a right to information on this
point. Another point which he found stated in the
papers was, that before we could even gain an admission
for the representative of her Majesty he must make
certain modifications in the very basis of the terms
on which he was to treat. As far as he (the
Earl of Harrowby) could learn of the nature of
these modifications, they were the very terms which
caused Lord Howden to put an end to the negotiations
before he would admit them. He asked, therefore, if we
were really to humble ourselves before this transatlantic
State, and submit to the rebukes contained in some of
those papers? He asked whether we were to agree to the
compensation of two millions sterling, for damaging
ships and property in the course of the blockade? He
wanted to know in what condition the affairs were in
those countries commanded by Oribe? These were the
questions to which he wished to have an answer, and
upon which the House were entitled to information, in
order that it might know how our interests were now
placed in that country. The Noble Lord proceeded, in a
nearly inaudible tone, to refer to the nature and the im-
portance of the trade with these countries. In the
year 1842 the value of English commerce alone amounted
to three milauns sterling, and if the common
course of nations had been pursued our trade in the
River Plate must now have been very much greater. In
1845 the value of one convoy which went out to Parana
was estimated at sixteen million dollars, and this wets an
entirely new kind of commerce, showing how greatly it
might have been increased and developed by proper mea-
sures. It was, therefore, no trifling matter, looked at
merely in a commercial point of view. But it was more
than this. It was important to the welfare of the people
that treaties should be observed, and that we should not
allow these two great nations to give way to one power.
Rosas had shoe n no desire to make concessions; :on the
contrary, he had increased the limitations upon com-
merce in these great waters. The whole conduct of
the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign-
office, in this matter, led him to the conclu-
sion, that it was his wish: to substitute an entirely
different policy for that of the late Government; and
he was afraid that the object of the Noble Lord would
not be realised, but, on the contrary, attended with dis-
appointment. In order to show that we were not un-
mindful or indifferent to the vast interests at stake—
that the present state of our relations with the Argen-
tine Republic might be understood—that it might he
known whether we were going to support the obligations
of treaties, or fur the purpose of removing the impression
that we had abandoned our ancient policy, he asked for
these rapers. The Noble Earl concluded by moving his
motion.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE (who was very indis-
tinctly heard) said that, in rising to oppose the motion,
he was at the same time perfectly ready to give any in-
formation in his. power that could promote the welfare
of the large and increasing commerce with the countries
on the River Plate. But the state of afiairs at the pre-
sent time was entirely different from that which ex-
isted when the Noble Earl (Aberdeen) held office, and
was succeeded by his Noble Friend now at the head of
Fe reign Affairs; and looking at the present position of
the pending negotiations, it was nut a time at which all
secret instructions issued to those engaged in it, should
be laid on the table.' With the nature of these instruc-
tions generally the Noble Earl did not seem so unin-
formed as he would lead the House to infer. The
basis on which the negotiation was now proceeding,
and which had latterly assumed a very promising as-
pect, was, he could assure the Noble Earl, approved
of by foreign nations. With respect to the progress
of these negotiations, Mr. Ouseley was sent out in Jan.,
1845, and the negotiation was commenced in May,
and was in part brought to a satisfactory cot elusion.
Mr. Ouseley determined to carry on a series of opera-
tions against Rosas, which created disapprobation in this
country. That disapprobation was participated in by
the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign-office. Lord
Howden was sent out in May, 1846, but was not able to
bring the affair to a satisfactory conclusion. Subse-
quently, his Lordship was commissioned, in conjunction
with a representative of France, to make another at-
tempt at a satisfactory settlement. It was certainly true
that that attempt failed in its purpose. He did not sue.
teed in all that was asked. General Rosas agreed to
some portions, but they failed also with the Junta of
Monte Video, who did not agree with some other points;
and until these parties agreed among themselves, Lord
Howden did not consider himself in consistency war-
ranted in proceeding further. But the statement that
Lord Howden's conduct had met with the disapprobation
of her Majesty's Government had no foundation what-
ever. He had never heard or known of anything which
could give the slightest countenance to that statement.
The Noble Earl spoke of the raising of the blockade as
if its continuance would have been a great benefit to
Buenos Ayres and to England; whereas it certainly was
a state of things which was not very desirable in itself.
It must be to some extent unfavourable to Monte Video,
but not to so great an extent as would appear at first
sight, when they took into consideration the system of
smuggling which had been introduced under its opera-
tion, and which no doubt some of these Monte Videan
parties were very unwilling to lose. But the trade of
Buenos Ayres was one of great importance to England,
and with respect to General Rosas, he was of opinion
that if those who took so many objections to his conduct
were looking to the general benefit of trade instead of a
partial benefit, they would not indulge in these objec-
tions. At no time had trade been more beneficially
carried ma than under the absolute government of one
who was described as opposed to European commerce.
The treatment he had given to Mr. Southern was of the
most distinguished and kindly description. The man-
ner in which he had been received. the way in which he
was lodged and attended, were all calculated to
give the greatest satisfaction to the nation he re-
presented. With respect to the speech Rosas had deli-
vered to his Parliament, or by whatever name the As-
sembly might be called, he preferred to take his opinions
from the authorised communications of the President of
the Argentine Republic to this Government; and cer-
tainly he must Lay, from these communications, that
there was a desire—he had almost said an intention, on
the part of Rosas to come to an amicable settlement;
and the matter was in a fair way, as far as the state of
the river was concerned; and it would undoubtedly be
a source of great satisfaction to her Majesty's Govern-
ment, if they were enabled to conclude honourably and
satisfactorily such a protracted affair. It was with the
highest gratification that he had to state on the part of
the present Government of France, that a perfect un-
derstanding existed with references to this affair; and
that there never was less reason to apprehend any dis-
turbance of these relations. Under these circumstances,
and especially keeping in view the promising aspect of
the negotiation, he should be sorry to lay any commu-
nications upon the table which might have tee effect of
preventing, a satisfactory conclusion. On these grounds
he must oppose the motion.
Lord BEAUMONT hoped that the Noble Earl would
withdraw the motion for papers. If he would go back
to the beginning of these affairs he would find he was
in error. The object of the persons who were getting
up an agitation was to continue to benefit by the original

crror, which al,cred the Customs until the year 1850,
And which was a source of profit. The Noble Earl
-p.,ke of Parana as a water open to all nations, whereas
4 was entirely al inland river, subject to internal regu-
lw ions, vs much as the `lhamt s. Again, with respect
to the bleclecolo, it WAS not as the Noble Earl suppo .ed,
.1. close one. Vessels were not prevented from going
'arther than Alnwe Video, the worst that could betel
them was to pay double dutit s, and they were then al-
,owed to prucef'd. But, as he had stated, it was the alte-
r itiim of the customs in certain parts of the country
that was the cause of till the agitation. He hsd, however.
told their Lordships that the proceedings from the first
had been an error which could not be too strongly con-
demned. The Noble Lord, after taken a brief review of
the successive attempts that had been made by the Go-
vernment to bring this matter to a conclusion, said, from
all he learnt upon the subject, he believed that Lord
llowden had acted in the most friendly manner, and had
exercised greater influence over Roses than any who had
preceded hire, and there could be no doubt that all his
terms would have been agreed to had it not been for the
conduct of Walewski, with whom he had been asso-
ciated. He wa,i quite convinced that all might have
been settled—that England would have obtained all she
wished for, had it not been for the working of foreign
faction. He could not see how Lord Ilowden could be

blamed for any t art of his conduct. He was appointed
to act with Walewski—compelled to act with him, and
did act with him the armistice was entered into,
when all joint interiererce terminated. It appeared from
the speech of the Noble Earl, that he expected the result
of all our interference to be something extraordinary;
that after all the injury we had done to Roses; after we
had acted contrary to the laws of nations; after all that,
if we got out of the scrape in the manner expected, it
would, to say the least of it, be creditable to the Noble
Lord, the present head of the Foreign-office.
Lord COLCHESTER was of opinion that the great
error in all our negotiations throughout this affair was,
that we did not simply attend to our own interests and
those of our country men, who were in the country. In-
stead of steadily doing that, we united with another
European power, whose alliance in European affairs was
a matter of great importance to the whole world, but
with whom, in such a case as this, we should have had
nothing to do, because France stood in a relation to
Buenos Ayres which prevented her from acting the part
of a mediator with any hope of success. Ile bad heard
with great pleasure that we were now about to act sepa-
rately; had we done so from the beginning the whole
matter would have been settled years ago. Great error
was committed by our commencing hostilities when there
was not a state of war, and he was glad that in that
affair the conduct of Mr. Ouseley bad not received the
sanction of the Government.

The Earl of lIARROWBY said a few words in reply,
and the motion was then withdrawn.
On the motion of the Marquis of CLANRICARDE,
the Prisoners' Removal (Ireland) Bill went through
Committee.

The Spirits (Ireland) Bill was read a third time, and
passed.
Their Lordships then adjourned, at Half-past Sewn
o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 23.
THE NAVIGATION-LAWS.
On the order of the day having been read for the
third reading of the Navigation Bill,
Mr. BERESFORD presented a petition from the
tenant-farmers of a place in Ireland against the repeal
of the navigation-laws.
The Earl of MARCH presented a similar petition
from the tenant-farmers of the county of Sussex.
Mr. RICE presented a similar petition from Dover.
Mr. MOFFATT presented a petition from Derby, in
favour of the repeal of the navigation-laws.—(Hear.)
Mr. LABOUC HERE presented a similar petition
from the Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses of Manchester.
Mr. HERMES said he had expected that the Right
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Labouchere) had risen to make a
speech, but he was disappointed. —(Hear, hear.) He
(Mr. Herries) should have been reluctant indeed on this
occasion to ask for the renewed indulgence of the House,
but for the great importance of the question before it.
He would not address them at any great length,
but he could not but advert to some of the material
topics of the question in moving, as he intended to do
on this occasion, that this Bill be read a third time
this day six mouths.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
This Bill with respect to its details, and all the
peculiar circumstances affecting the different interests
involved in the question, had been so fully discussed upon
previous occasions that he thought the House would ex-
cuse him on the present occasion from entering into the
minute details involved in the question. He conceived
they were now arrived at that point of the proceedings in
this most important Bill which required that they should
look at it on the broadest principles of national policy.
He conceived this to be a most dangerous measure.
They had now done with columns of figures of the dif-
ference between this company and others—they had
done with the ten folio blue books of evidence—they had
done with all these minor grounds upon which the
question must be ultimately decided. The question
must now be dealt with upon the broad grounds. Nor
would he, upon that occasion, insist that a great national
marine was the great foundation of the value of the navi-
gation-laws. They could, no doubt, produce all things
and sell them at a cheaper rate than any other of the
nations; but if they took away that protection to
which our artisans were entitled, great injury must
not only result to them, but to their employers.
Having no faith in the expediency of the Bill, they
could not consent to propose amendments but in Com-
mittee. The House would observe that the object of
the Bill was to abolish entirely all navigation-laws; but
had it been simply to amend those laws, the Oppo-
sition might have made some suggestions for its
improvement. They had already discussed at consider-
able length the motives which influenced Government
in introducing this measure, and he need not say much
upon that point; but he thought that in the interval
which had elapsed since the Opposition had induced
Government to postpone this measure, circumstances
had occurred, which proved beyond doubt that the
grounds on which they rested the measure had no
foundation in truth whatever. Time had shown that
the great stream of public opinion was against it.
Canada and North America had protested
against it, as had many of the other leading
colonies, and the result of refusing the prayer
of those petitions was beginning to be seen in the
events that were happening in Canada. The House, no
doubt, would welt remember the declaration of
Government upon the introduction of the
measure, that Canada and the other North Ame-
rican colonies were favourable to it, tut
the delay which had occurred had enabled him and
others to present petitions from Canada, Quebec, Mon-
treal, and the West Indies, denying that the inhabi-
tants of those parts of the British possessions were
at all in its favour, while the same delay
had given the commercial and trading classes of the
mother-country an opportnnity of expressing their un- •
compromising opposition to it.—(Hear, hear.) Portugal
has said, in reply to the communication of the Govern-
ment on this subject, that they would not make any
alteration in the institutions of their country, and hoped
that the British Government would not press their plan
on them, as they must necessarily decline. Next, what
has Spain said on this matter? npain has said nothing,
and he should say that if the Government would
persevere in passing this Bill, that it would find consi-
derable difficulty in enforcing those states to comply.
with it. In fact, his firm belief was that they would
not comply. He would then ask what was the opinion
of the United States of America? The House had
been informed, on the second reading of the measure,
that there was a disposition on the part of that country
to acquiesce with the British Government; but he found
that since that there had been a great change in the
feelings of the United States of America, and that if
they were to judge of the speeches of the most emi-
nent statesmen of that country, it would be found
that it would be necessary fur the Minister to pro-
duce more authentic documents than any as yet
produced, before he could believe that the United
States would part with their constitutional advantage;
and he, therefore, asked for more information on that
subject. He thought that the Government were bound
to inform the House whether Mr. Bancroft's letter bad
been confirmed by the subsequent conduct of the United
States Government, and he should add, that he appre-
hended that those reciprocal advantages would be based
on a sandy foundation. The President of the United
States, in his inaugural speech, has stated that he well
prepared to introduce such measures as would tend to
the advancement of the commerce, agriculture, and
manufactures of that country, which declaration 10
deemed worthy of such a statesman; and Mr. Webster
has declared, in his place in the House of Assemble',
that Mr. Bancroft should not have acted as he did with
regard to this measure. He wished to hear what were
the opinions of the great commercial body of this great
commercial kingdom. The Noble Lord (Lord John
Russell) should have accurate information on that sub-
ject, as he represented the greatest commercial comma"
pity in the world; and when that community has been
called on to express their opinion, he would ask what
was that opinion? He would ask the Noble Lord what
were the opinions of his constituents, and should sal
that he had no other means of knowing them than
through the numerously and respectably signed petitions
that bad been laid on the table of the House from his
constituents against this measure. These petitions,
signed by Messrs. F. Baring, C. Baring Young, Fre-
derick Cooke, Lawson, Dennison, Small, Master, Spooner;
and Fletcher against this Bill, ought not to be overlooked
or slighted. Aed who were these personages? The
most eminent merchants in England, in Europe,—nay'
in the world, and the constituents of the Noble Lord
(Lord J. Russell), In like manner the most influentiel
merchants of Liverpool, Bristol, Newcastle, Hull, Water,
ford, Belfast, Sunderland, and Glasgow, petitioned against
it. He knew that it would be said, as it had before,
been said to him, that it was necessary to repeal
these laws for the carrying out the free-trade prin-
cipie ; but he should say to that, that there was 111
necessary 'connexion between free trade and the repeal
of the navigation-laws, as they were totally
independent of each other, and that the expe-
riment on free trade has nut yet been fully tried. The?
were told that the nations of the continent would reci-
procate trade and commerce. But upon what authority
3
was this advanced? They had interrogated eark-tit
countries, and the answers from those nations f
justify the conclusion.—(llear, hear.) The answer °_,
France did not justify the expectation. From Germany
the answer was, that at some future time the sYst e
en
might be adoped. frig
trade The result at home was, that !r,c)
trade threw the agriculture]. and landed interest in°
doubt and dismay, and caused a system of agitation _"..
extent of which they could not measure. If they thre.n,
ened changes for which they were not prepared, tTY.,
were disturbing men's minds, and making them
•
tors. That was really the course they were par eat
It they persevered in this course they would be an ollTeie
of indignation at home, and the laughing sesek of lees
enemies and rivals abroad. lie moved the Bill be r"
, the third time that day six mouths.