The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-26 00:00:00

that death was not 13:reduced by the corporal punishment which
had been inflicted. In conclusion;
,hes,begged tO,sky he had no
objection to the ViodUciin oTtbk rt fdr:
Mr. 'ROBIN e subject of corporal pu-
nislthi y►ittn thb army was not regularly before the House, he
Could not allow the opportunity to pass without expressing his
utterabhorrence and disgust of the practice : nor could he he
persuaded by any arguments drawn either from returns or•from
presumed facts, that either that House or the public would be
satisfied with any diminution whatever of the extent of corporal
punishment. With nothing less than its total abolition would
they be content.—(Hear, har.) There were two cases which
recently occurred at Woolwich, and which demanded the im•
mediate interference of that House, It was not his intention
to allude at length to these cases, as one of them he believed
was still undergoing judicial inqairy. Yet he 'mild not help
observing—no matter what might be the return made to that
House—he should be still convinced that had these men not
been flogged they would oot have died. As a substitute for
flogging he would suggest, in the case of great delinquents
removal from the Attny.
General Slf A RPE would implot the House not to adopt
any course with a view to the abolition of corporal punishment
in the army, without being well assured that they coota gupply
a substitute that ehould be equally efficacimis bi preserving the
discipline of our soldiers. He denied that flogging could be
regarded as a degradation. The lion. and Gallant Member
then referred to the cast of a private soldier in a olinint of
cavalry who had been flogged for some offetteo, Six months
after having been flogged he was prOrntna to the rank of a
non-commissioned officer. Shortly. afterwards he (General
Sharpe) returned from abroad with his regiment, and finding
that he wanted an adjutant, wished to promote this Yuan. Upon
signifying his wish, he was told that the man had been flogged.
He said in reply, that the importance of this depended on what
the man had been flogged for. Finding, upon inquirys that there
was nothing disgraceful in the conduct for which the man had
been punished—that, in fact, in was foe going to sleep on his
post after fatigue of service—and Olnerving the perfect pro-
priety with which he deported. himself amongst his brother
officers, he had no hesit'ation in appointing him adjutant,
and he had every reason to be fully satisfied with
his subsequent conduct. After that was he to be
told that Corporal punishment ought to be abolished ?
Mr, HI/ME was surprised at the assertion of the Hon. and
Gal.;ant Member, that there was nothing degrading in being
flogged; and he could not but regret that the opinion of the
Gallant General should be formed upon an isolated case, op-
posed as it was to so many, which should induce him to arrive
at quite a different conclusion.—( Hear, hear.) However,
this was not the time to enter upon the discussion of so wide
a subject. He should, however, express his conviction that
the time had arrived when that House should interfere to put
an end to such a system. If the Government did not inter-
fere to put an end to this abominable praCtice, that House
would be obliged to interfere, and tell both the Got-eminent
and the officers of his Majesty's service, that the soldiers
should no longer be subjected to the infliction of a punishment
so degrading. He wished to know from Lis Right Hon
Friend below him when they might expect the report of the
Commissioners ?

The CHANCELLP-jR of the EXCHEQUER Aid that
his Noble Friend. tie Secretary of War was anxious to
forward the Ikeport of the CommisSin and in answer to an
applicator made within the tad few days to persons connected
with. that commissieth his Noble Friend had been informed that
within a week it might be expected the Report would be in
the hands of his Majesty's Ministers.
• Mr. C. FERGUSSON said that the individuals employed
on that commission had been engaged most industriously in
the duties assigned to them. Not one moment had been lost,
and he believe their labours had been brought to a termina-
tion. He could not say how long this report might be in the
hands :of the printers, but he had little doubt but it would be
in the hands of the Government before the expiration of a
week.

After a few words from Major FANCOURT, which were
inaudible in the gallery,
Colonel SIBTHORP said that he was opposed to the
abolition of corporal punishment in the army, If the sugges-
tion of an Hon. Member were adopted, and solitary confine-
ment substituted for flogging, it would be punishing the entire
regiment, by imposing on them the additional duty of the of-
fender. Flogging was necessary, in order to redeem the cha-
racter of the soldier.--(Oh, oh 1)
Mr. O'CONNELL emphatically denied that flogging was
either necessary or effectual for the purpose of what the Gal-
lant Officer was pleased to call "redeeming-d' the soldiers.—
(Hear, hear 1) And so the Gallant Colonel had discovered
that the substitution of solitary confinement for flogging
would be punishing the remainder of the regiment for the of-
fence of one Suppose for the moment that it was so, would
it not be cheaply purchasing the abolition of that disgraceful
and degrading punishment by obliging a man to occasionally
mount an additional guard?—(Hear, hear.) But what was
really the case? " Solitary confinement," quoth the Gallant
Officer, " would take the man from his duty." Well, did
flogging send him to it ?—(Cheers.) No ; he was flogged
till the skin was stripped from his back, and then sent to hos-
pital to abide the chance of a mortification.—( Hear.) But it
was•necessary, it seemed, to flog, in order to " redeem" the
soldiers. Redeem ! Oh, it was a word that should not be so
deseerated.—(Hear, hear.) Thelarmy of Napoleon—not a sol-
dier in it was flogged, and yet they were tolerably well fitted
for the ordinary duties of military life. —( A laugh.) It was
time that this degrading punishment were totally abolished—
tl:iat the lash should be no longer applied to the back of a Bri-
tish soldier, when it was discontinued even amongst the black
men.—(Hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member concluded
by expressing a hope that the Hon. Member for Barnstaple
would persevere in his motion upon this subject.
Mr. WAKLE Y said that without going into the general
question, he should merely observe in reference to the recent
cases at Woolwich, that he had himself seen one of the bodies,
and he had never seen stronger proofs of death having ensued
from bodily injury. Upon examination of the body, no trace
of internal disease could be discovered, and the blush of health
was still on the cheek of the corpse. He should not advert
to this subject at more length, as he should now give notice tisat
he should on the morrow (this day, as we understood the Hon.
Member), move for a return of the finding of the jury, and the
evidence taken before them. There was an account of the
proceedings at the Marine-barracks at this place, in a news-
paper of very great circulation and influence—he meant
the Weekly Dispatch. He would now read it to the
House :—" Early on Monday morning last, a private ma-
rine, named William Saundry, was led forth into. the open
space fronting the barracks at Woolwich, to undergo the
Christian-like punishment of receiving two hundred lashes.
The square having been formed, and the wretched delinquent
tied up to the halberts, the drummers commenced, when the
screams of the miserable wretch were so loud and heart-pierc-
ing, that, notwithstanding the fifes and drums were ordered to
drown them, it is positively stated that they could be heard
above a mile and a half across the Artillery-ground ! After
receiving one hundred lashes, or nine hundred cords having
been passed over his lacerated back, Saundry was ordered to
be taken down, for what reason is not known, nor will we
renture to stale, whether it was a voluntary or forced act by
the officer in command. Saundry was led to the infirmary in
a fainting state; and whether the same fate awaits him that
fell to the lot of the victim Ramsay, time alone will prove.
It may be as well here to give a description of the cat used in
the marine corps. Similar to others, it has nine thongs made
of whipcord, in each of which three over-hand knots are
tied, and at the end of each cord there is a hard substance
formed, about the size of a large pea. On the night previous
to the sentence being carried into effect, the drummers re-
ceived orders to soak the cats in water, after which they are
hung up to dry, thus making each cord like a piece of wire.
To complete the education of the drummers in this diabolical
practice, the figure of a man's back is chalked out in the
drummer's-room, and they are taught so to administer the
lash, as to prevent the cords being clotted together with an
offender's blood, as they draw the cat across his shoulders.
This is done that each of the knots, thirty-six in number, may.
take proper effect in jagging the man's flesh." Now this ac-
count had not been contradicted. The Gallant Member for
Dumfries said, that flogging was not degrading to the soldier.
Now he (Mr. Wakley) would ask whether it was honourable?
He would also ask, if it was not degrading to the men, why
was it not applied to the officers ?—( A laugh.)
Major BEA UCLERK had received a letter from Ports-
mouth, in which it was stated that 4,000 lashes had been in-
flicted on the men in the corps of marines stationed there
within a twelvemonth. He would, therefore, suggest that the
return should be amended so as to include all the marine
corps. He knew that it was the opinion of most of the officers
in the army tha: the rime had arrived when corporal punish-
ment should be dispensed with. This could only be done sa-
tisfactorily in times of peace, and he entreated the Govern-
ment at least to try the experiment without delay.
Colonel THOMPSON observed that he should feel him-
self degraded if he did not bear his testimony, after thirteen
years' experience, to the mischievous and degrading results of
the cruel system of punishment practised in the British army.
—( Hear.) As he had served both at home and abroad, and
indeed in most parts of the world, he could state with confi-
dence, that the practice of corporal punishment in the army
was the bane and cause of misery to every officer anxious to do
his duty. If it were desirable to get rid of this species of
punishment in time of peace, it was ten times more so in time
of war. When the army was in the field, it was extremely diffi-
cult to keep the soldiers from the commission of offences, and
often nothing but personal attachment to their officers could
keep the men to their duty. If corporal punishment had not
existed in the army, he was convinced that those horrible
scenes, the memory of which caused British officers to blush,
which occurred in the late war, at the sieges of Badajoz and
St. Sebastian, would never have happened.--( Hear.) If the
officers were enabled to spare the men from this degrading
punishment, and treated them with kindness, they could do
almost anything with the soldiers, and easily induce them to
abstain from crimes, from the commission of which hardly any-
thing could restrain them but respect for Their officers. In
time of war, also, it was well known that men were not punished
when the army was in face of the enemy. The general obser-
vation was, that punishment failed before the enemy. He
might be asked what other course he would adopt. He would
say, march the soldier, when guilty of misconduct, to the rear
of the army, as a prisoner. If this did not shame him, he
would then have him treated as a useless brute, or as a cart
horse, and get rid of ,him altogether.
General SH A RPE, in explanation, stated that be was
anxious to get rid of corporal punishment in the army, but he
was riot prepared to do so until he was acquainted with some
other adequate punishment.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that as punishments had been suc-
cessfully mitigated as regarded civilians, he did not see why
such severe punishments in the army should be continued. He
understood that the punishment in the marine corps was much
more severe than that in the army. In the former, the cat
which was used in the navy was used, while in the latter one
of a different construction was used. It had been stated that
during the Peninsular war, when the bodies of English and