The Sun.
London, England, 1822-06-29 00:00:00

MALT AND EXCISE DUTIES,

Mr. WOIic:IiSUSE gave notice that on Monday next he
should call the attention of the House to the enactimnts of an
Act passed on the 15th of last month, which related to the Ex-
cise, and which were calculated to add to the burthens of the
Peopleoand in partictihir as related to the Malt Duties.
MR. SAURIN'S LETTER TO LORD NORBURY.
M. BROUGHAM wished to 011 the attention of the Noble
Marquis, or of the Right lion. Secretary of State, to an articles
which had appeared in a Morning Paper,—an article of such a
nature that any one who had a regard for the purity of the ju_
dicial character, and of the administration of justice, must view'
with the utmost alarm. It prcifessed to be a copy Of a letter
from the Right Hon. Wm. eatirin, who lately filled the situaz
tion of Attdrney,General for Ireland, addressed to no les& a
personage than the Lord Chief Justice Of the Common Pleas,
bofd Norbury. Its purpose Was to enclose extracts of another
letter frorh a Peer, commenting upon a late Act of that House.
in language that 'he would not describe, and recommending
Lord Norbury to interfere In pOlitical 'disputes and intrigue&
Ile hoped he should not be misunderstood in giving this op-
portunity fo.r explanation on so grave a Matter and he should
be happy if any personal friends of Mt. Saurin were present
Who could deny the authenticity of the paper. If it were not
denied, and if it could not be denied, then there mtist be
4nOther document in existence of a most important character.
If any man had dared to write a hundredth part of that letter,
it would be a most portentous Matter, and one that must lead
to results the most serious. The answer to a man who had the
make to ake such an, attack upon the judicial thane.
ter ought to have been such a one as at least would teach him
not to hazard a repetition of his conduct. If this had been
confined to a private circle he should not haye felt it imperative
upon him to mention it, But finding it made public in the
papers of the day, he thought it his duty to bring the subject
forward in order that it should be denied of noticed within a
reasonable time.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that whethu' it was his duty or
not to reply, to the Hon. and Learned Member's observations,
his personal friendship for Mr. Saurin would not allow him to
heat his name connected with such a circumstance as this with)
out immediately rising to defend him. He was of course
wholly unprepared either to admit or deny the authenticity of
this letter. Until yesterday he had never heard of its existence.
He could easily believe that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
felt it .a painful task to mention the subject, when the Yen-
terms Of the letter deelared it to be of a priVate nature. Of
. those, whoever they might be, through whose Meansit had ac-
quired publicity, it was unnecessary for him to • say a word.
If it was found in the streets, it was the first and most obvious
duty of any man to send it immediately to the party for whom
it was directed: Whether it was authentic or not, he would
rather have Written the letter, if it had been ten thousand times
worse than it was, than have given it publicity under such cit.
cumstances.—(Hear 1)
Mr. BROUGHAM was like the Right Hon. Gentleman,in-
asmuch athe never heard of the paper till yesterday.' 'As to the
means by which it obtained publicity he Was utterly and en-
tirely ignorant. He agreed also in reprobating itS publication
as much as the Right lion. Gentleman. lie conceived that
nothing justified the use of private papers but the process of
the law. He would almost go the length of the Right Hon.
Gentleman—he hardly knew' whether he would not rather have
written the letter than have published it, and parccul trli if
foul means had been used to procure it, as was most probtible
from.the story told of picking it up in the street. He felt, how-
ever, that they had no choice in taking notice of it after it had
obtained, publicity. The duty was cast upon them, and they
Must follow it up, as though the letter had come before them
by any other means.
Mr. Secretary PEEL thought the r tmost danger would arise
if it were to be decided that persons should , possess themselves,
of private documents, and found public proceedings upon them.
If the possibility of affairs, deriving publicity, by such means,
should be countenanced, he intreated the House to look at the
consequences that must ensue.
Alr..G. BEN.NET wished to ask the Right Mtn.' Gentle.,
man whether, now, that it was mentioned, he should feel it ri's
duty to inquire into the truth or falsehood of.the letter ?
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that the llonOurable Member
must not attribute it to any want of disrelpect in him if he

ieefined answering the question, under the circumstances-of the

Mr. BROUGHAM had felt the difficulty pointed outby the
Right Hon: Gentleman so strongly, that it was with some diffi-
culty that he made up his mind to give encouragement to the
means employed by noticing the letter. if it had been one of
any ordinary nature he certainly should have passed it by on
that very account. It now remained for the House to consider
whether they should proceed to any notice of the matter. If
they did not, and the two individuals affected by it took no
-steps on their own part, the country would conceive that this
objection was the only one which prevented further steps.
SALT TAX REPEAL.
Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report of the Salt Tax
Mr. CURWEN rose to show the advantage of taking off the
tax altogether. It could not be kept up with a view to the
revenue, but patronage. He was convinced, on the contrary,
that it would be most injurious to the revenue. By removing
the whole tax, and granting a bounty upon the importation of
salt into Ireland, an adequate employment might be found for
her poor in fishing, and her own consumption would be a suf-
ficient market. Then every Irishman would have a herring to
his potatoe. The Right lion. Gentleman did not want the
money, and by giving up the tax he would gain the thanks of
the country. If it were retained it would destroy our fisheries
and injure various other branches of our commerce. Ministers
would incur a most heavy load of responsibility if they would
-keep up this tax, when by repealing it they had the power of
;doing so much good. He concluded by moving an Amend-
ment, " That the whole of the Duties should cease and be no
longer payable."
Mr. LEICESTER contended that Ministers were prevented
from giving up the whole Tax by the interference of interested
persons. He considered this conduct to be any thing but the
genuine essence of true patriotism. He thought it extremely
-hard upon the country that Ministers should so press upon it
in the, hour of its. distress. He was satisfied that within a year
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be under the necessity
of completely repealing this 'fax, and the Tax also upon Lea-
ther, Tallow, and Windows.
Mr. JOHN SMITH spoke in favour of the Repeal. He
thought that the tax pressed most heavily on the poor, and that
- the Revenue could afford to give it up.
Mr. DENISON said he thought the tax was a most odious
one, and he should heartily vote for its repeal. He could not
however agree to suspend the repeal of the Leather Tax. In-
deed, since the Resolution of the House for repealing that tax,
the persons connected with the Leather Tax had entered into
new arrangements.
• aIr.ILYTTLETON said he had originally op posed a mo-
, tion.for the repeal of this tax, 'because he wished to maintain
the Sinking Fund ; but he considered the advantage to be gain-
ed by retaining the trifling remnant of the tax, to be by no
means equal to the inconvenience attending the pressure of it.
He should vote for the repeal.
Mr. Alderman C. Smith opposed the repeal.
The CHANCELLOR of the.EXCLIEQUER regretted that
any arrangement which, wherr.first ,proposed, appeared .to give
.general satisfaction, should now.be disturbed by the amend-
ment of the Honourable Member for Cumberland. He owed
:it to the credit of the country to oppose the repeal. If the
--House should determine on the total repeal of this tax, he
would be compelled to abandon his resolution of repealing a
_part of the Leather Tax. He was satisfied that a partial re-
peal of many taxes would be more beneficial than the total
repeal of a single one. He had been accused of a desire to
retain the tax, on account of the patronage attached to it ; but
the fact was, that the Treasury had nothing to do with 'the
patronage. The officers were all appointed by the Board of
_Excise. The saving, on the head of Collection, in case of a
total Repeal, would be very inconsiderable, as the officers em-
ployed respecting this tax were employed also for other pur-
. poses ; and very few of them could be dismissed. The Irish
Fisheries were under none of the restrictions which had been
.complained of; so that the argument as to the inconvenience
is that respect fell entirely to the ground. He dial not:
much approve of the extension of Bounties. It would lead
to the system described by Adam Smith, under which
men fished for bounties rather than herrings.—(A laugh.)—
When it was considered how great was the reduction al-
ready afforded, he really could not believe that the pub:x
would be so much inconvenienced by thelremna.nt. ,e thought
it would be scarcely felt, as the duty would not be more than
_an halfpenny in the pound. Even if every man consumed as
much as every other, the duty would not be more than two
shillings per head per annum; but he denied that theisoor
paid so much as the rich. The remnant had been called con-
Itemptible, but it amounted M 200,0001. a year, and he could
not consent to give it up. As he had already stated, that if the
House were resolved on repealing this tax, he must retain the
tax upon leather, he really hoped that Gentlemen who were
anxious for the repeal of the latter, would support him on the
present occasion.—(Hear, hear ! and a laugh.)—lle had reason
to believe that the total repeal of the tax would materially in-
' terfere with the kelp trade in the North, a trade which gave
• employment to no less than 40,000 persons. He saw no reason
for altering his first Resolution, which, he trusted, would be ap-
proved by the public and the House. At all events, those who
doubted his judgment would, he hoped, give him credit for his
motives.—(Cheers.)
Mr. WODEHOUSE said, that he was happy to find the
• situation of fac. country so favourably changed from its ap-
pearance, when the repeal of this tax was proposed on a former
occasion. He had now no doubt of the flourishing state of
our 'revenue ; and lie therefore could see no reason for retaining
the remnant of an odious and unpopular tax.
Lord ALTHORPE said, the Right Hon. Gentleman had
thrown out baits to catch the votes of all parties ; but he would
not catch him (Lord A.) He was known to favour the repeal
of the Leather Tax ; but lie would not on that account support
the continuance of the Salt Tax.—(A laugh.)—lf the House
should repeal it, he was satisfied the Right Hon. Gentleman
had too much regard for his own character to resort again to

the Leather Tax.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured the
Noble Lord he must do so ; and that he would not be doing
any more than carrying into effect the substance of the resolu-
tions sanctioned by the House.
SUMNER said his Right Hon. Friend the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had not been fairly treated. Ile
thought the House would disgrace its faith by repealing the
present tax, after agreeing to the Resolutions proposed by his
Right Hon. Friend.
Sir JOSEPH YORKE said, he would never take off a tax
by halves. He would vote for the repeal.
Colonel WOOD said the taxes had been laid on by halves,
and increased during the war. He always should vote upon
principle against isolated motions for repeal of taxes. Instead
ef sweeping away different taxes, the proper way, in his opi-
nion, would be to lower all taxes to a certain extent.
Mr. R. MARTIN said, that on the western coast of Ireland
the people found no market for their labour, but in the manu-
facture of kelp. He stated this in behalf of the famishing
population .of that part of Ireland, assuring the House that if
this remaining duty on .salt were repealed, the whole of the
persons in that part of Ireland would have no matket whatever
fer their labour.
Mr. LUSHINGTON said, that the question at present be-
fore the House was, whether they would destroy that financial
plan which had received the acclamations of the House when
promulgated by his Right lion. Friend ? The House had
heard the various evils to different parts of the community which'
would accrue from the total reduction of this tax, from other
Ittanourable Members. He himself thought that quite enough
of this tax had been remitted for the relief of the nation ; and
in his opinion, there were many other taxes, the remission of
which would be much more serviceable to the country at large.
He should prefer _repealing the coal tax.---(Hear' hear !)—He
believed it was demonstrable that the removal of the remain-
ing two,fifteexiths of this tax would be productive of great evil
to Ireland ; and it remained yet to be shown that it would
be .so highly beneficial to Scotland. Under these circum-
stances ha called upon. the House not to disturb the financial re-
solutions thq had already come to, and to reject this motion.
Mr. WETfiERELL opposed the repeal of the remaining
duty upon salt at the present moment. Ile thought they were
all oound to their constituents to repeal part of the Salt Tax
and part of the Leather Tax, and they could not du this if they
• zepealed the. whole of either.
Nr. SCOTT thought that the time was now arrived when it
was their duty to, take off some of the burdens imposed during
thelate war. He thought it much better fur the nation to re-
peal-the whole of one tax than parts of two ; and in the pre-
tvalt case he was sure the nation would not feel the benefit to
.the full extent of the partial repeal. This was the-first time
. thathe had done himself the honour of addressing that liouse ;
but he must observe, that he had never heard less said than in
the discussion of the last hour and a half; and that Hon. Gen-
tlerner. did not deserve to carry. this question by their argu-
monts.—(Laughter, and cries of "` Question !")
Sir FRANCIS OMMANNEY rose amidst cries of " Ques-
tion," to state, thatit was his intention to vote for the par-
tial repeal of this tax. When Honourable Members talked so
largely of doing away with different taxes, he called upon them
V) LOOK at the situation of many other servants of the Public.—
He calledeupon them.to look at those who had shot themselves
—(Laughter.)—lle maintained that many had shot themselves
from the distress arising from losing their situations ; and lie
contended that it was their duty, fairly, openly, and honestly,
to support those ty.xes which were necessary to support those
who n ad long served the State—( Renewed cries of" Question.")
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that it give him
pleasure to see so many. Hon. Gentlemen on the op-
, posite benches as then appeared before lihn. He had no doubt
that they would have willingly dispensed with many of those
spee,ches made on his side of the House, in order to attain what
aeenled`to be the great object of the evening; viz. to divide

earlier.--(Hear, 'hear I)—Notwitlistanding this state of lion.
Gentlemen's minds, he should not hesitate to declare the
grounds of his vote en this question. He could not help.com-
paring the opposition which his Right Honourable Friend's
Resolutions met with this night to the perfect unanimity which
pervaded the House when he stated to them the substance of it,
in hid general financial plans early in the Session. Bearing that
in mind, he Asked whether, if his Right Honourable Friend's
arguments had been. those now proposed, the House would
then have agreed to them ? 'He had first considered what quan-
tum of Revenue he could dispense with consistently with the
maintenance of faith with the_public creditor, and having done
that, he stated to the House his proposed mode of disposing of
it towards the reduction of taxation. With that mode and its
details, the House and the Hon. Gentlemen opposite expressed
themselves satisfied, and it would be a positive retractation of
their avowed intentions, both as regarded the Salt Tax and the
Leather Tax, to adopt the proposition then -before the House.
He hoped his Right Hon. -Friend, with that manly firmness
which marked his character, would withstand this attempt to
draw him into a departure from his original intentions, anti
defeat the object of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, who, he
perceived, had made an effort to carry their point. The Nolale
Marquis proceeded to argue that it would be detrimental to
the Fishenes, which had been urged as interested in this ques-
tion, to, repeal the remainder of this tax. He maintained
that his Right Hon. Friend was entitled to the votes of the
Hon. Gentlemen opposite, in consistency with their conduct
on the night when he proposed for their sanction that financial
plan upon which alone any reduction in the faxes had been made.
He hoped that Hon. Gentlemen who had shewn so inuch una-
nimity with his Right Hon. Friend on that occasion would not
allow themselves to be led astray by the lion. Member for
Cumberland. His Right Hon. Friend had included in his re-
ductions of taxation as large a portion of revenue as it was
found possible, upon mature calculation, to give up, so that if
the remainder' of this tax were to be abandoned, it would be
impossible to make that reduction in the Leather Tax which
had been announced. This would be a great hardship upon
the tanners, who had been led to expect the reduction in
question. Upon the whole view of the case, he thought it was
impossible that the House could recede from the resolutions
they had agreed to on this subject, to which the faith of Hon.
Gentlemen opposite was as much pledged as any part of the
House.—(Hear, hear!)
Mr. S. WORTLEY said that if driven to an alternative, and
called upon to make anslection betwixt the total repeal of the
Salt Tax or part of the Leather Tax, he should prefer
voting for the total repeal of the Salt Tax, although he did not
think that the repeal of either of them would much benefit the
country.
The Gallery was then cleared amidst loud cries of question,
and the House divided—
For the original Resolution . - 104
Against it - - - 92
-Majority. in favour of-the Resolution —l2
On our re-admission' into the gallery, we found
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON stating, that if one farthing more
were added to the misery of the people of Ireland, he would,
night after night, appeal against it. •
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said,- that all the dif-
ference was-the difference of currency.
Sir J. NEWPORT made some observations.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUUER acceded to
the suggestion of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hutchinson.) He
had been quite unconscious of any injury or injustice to that
country by the wording of his clause.
Mr. CALCRAFT, after mentioning that the last division
had been carried by the large majority of 12, begged to remind
the Right Hon. Gentleman how the House increased in course
of the debate, and' what took place throughout the benches
around them before azid after 10 o'clock ; and how Honourable
Members made speeches for any other purpose but to instruct
the House. He hoped that the minority of the last- division
would not despair of reducing the 2s. The only way of rea-
soning with the Right Honourable Gentleman was by a ma-
jority. They wanted, not the Sinking Fund, or 1,000,0001.,
but 200,0001.
Mr. MABERLY said, the question was not whether this
tax should be given up for another tax, but whether it should
be taken out of the expenditure. 'Whatever was taken from the
30,000,0001. on the one side, was given to the 30,000,0001. on
kto other. •
The amendment was then agreed to.
THE BUDGET.

Some conversation took place between the CHANCELLOR of
the EXCHEQUER and Mr. Hu ME, respecting the propositions
to be made on Monday; 'the latter asking information as a
matter of courtesy, the former alleging that it would be in.
convenient.

TILE ALIEN BILL.
Mr. PEEL rose to move the committing pro j:ormet.
Mr. HOBHOUSE would stop its progress in every stage.
'f Ministers wished to stop the _debate, it was for their own
purposes.
• Mr. PEEL contended, that the delay had been at the request
of Members on the other side. He would be content with one
stage this night.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR asked, why the Bill was proposed at
this late period of the Session ? It was not at the desire of the
Opposition,'but of Ministers. He would not go on now.
Mr. PEEL said, he had postponed the question twice, at the
express desire of Members on the other side.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, he should despair of having the
Bill removed from the Statute Book, if it should be repeated
there again.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH asked whether the Irish
Police Bill or this measure would be first proposed ?

- _
Mr. GOULBURN made some observations.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, he had asked only for
information ; he had no choice.
Mr. DE?MAN hoped that the Bill woule have every pos-
sible opposition, and even trusted that it might yet be defeated.
—(Hear!)
The Welsh Coals Bill was read a third time, and passed.
BRITISH MUSEUM.
Mr. BA NKES moved that a sum of 9,4251. should be grant-
ed to his Majesty for the support of the British Museum. The
vote was 1,0001. less than that of last year. He was ready to
give any explanation as to items.
Mr. S. RICE entirely agreed in the Note.; but he wished
that, for the credit of the country with foreigners, all public
monuments, and other specimens of Art throughout England,
were opened upon .the same terms as the British Museum.
Mr. H. G. KENNET was sorry that he did not see added
to the vote a pension for a man of great ingenuity and erudition
who had formerly been an officer of the British Kluseum, and .
who was now in a state of mental derangement. Application,
he understood, had been made to Government for a small
allowance of 1001. or 2001. a year to keep the unfortunate indi-
vidual from being absolutely a pauper ; but his Majesty's Mi-
nisters, with that judicious economy for which they were dis-
tinguished, had declined acceding to the request. A party of
the trustees of the British Museum had benevolently done
something to better Dr. 's situation ; but surely some
small allowance in the of pension might have been given
to him.
Mr. BANKES replied in a tone scarcely audible in the
.gallery. We understood him to say that something had al-
ready been done for Dr. D—; but he thought it would be a
bad precedent if pensions were granted in such cases upon ap.
plication to Parliament.
Mr. ABERCROMBY moved for the Production of the
Proceedings in the Civil Suit between Alexander and Borth-
wick ; the Criminal Proceedings by Alexander against Borth-
wick ; and the Erecognitions and other Informations by which
the Lord Advocate and his Deputies acted in their Proceedings
against Borth w ick.
The other Orders of the Day were then dispose,' and
the House adjourned at TWELVE O'CLOCK.

THE ARMY.

The following is the intended distribution of
the Cavalry in Great Britain for the present year :—King's
Dragoon Guards, 'Manchester, Birmingham, and Coventry,
from Ireland.-2d Ditto (Bays), York, Leeds, &c.-3d Ditto,
Newcastle-upon-Tyne and Carlisle, from Scotland.-4th Ditto,
from Scotland to Ireland.-7th Ditto, from Manchester, &c. to
Edinburgh.—Royal Dragoons, from Weymouth to Canterbury
and Ipswich.--Scots Greys, from Birmingham,' &c. to Glas-
gow. —3d Light Dragoons,
from Ireland to Brighton.-9th
Lancers, to Weymouth, xeter &c.-10th Hussars, to Ire-
land.--14th Light Dragoons, to Nottingham, &c.-15th Hus-
sars, to Hounslow.—The 16th Lancers are in daily expectation
of embarking for India.
A detachment of the 14th Light Dragoons arrived at Bristol
on Sunday (23d inst.) from Ireland; and some companies of
the 15th Regiment of Infantry marched into that city to-day
(Wednesday, the 26th instant) from Plymouth on their route
to Chester.
The 3d Regt. of Light Dragoons has passed through Bath
this week in three divisions, on their route from Waterford to
Brighton.
The two companies of the Royal Staff Corps, at Head Quar-
ters, at Hythe, have subscribed 471. 6s. to the fund for the re-
lief of the distressed Irish'. The other six companies of the
corps are on foreign service.

Government has at length determined on the removal of the
Custom-house from Sandwich to Ramsgate, a circumstance
highly satisfactory to that town, and there is no doubt will
prove very beneficial to the shipping that frequent the Royal
harbour. JAMES EDGCOMBE, Esq., Collector of Penryn, in
Cornwall, is now there, directing the fitting-up of proper of-
fices, &c. to receive the establishment, for the purpose of con-
ducting the business of the port for the future.—( Kentish Ga-
zette, June 28.)