The Sun.
London, England, 1814-04-19 00:00:00

LE E WARD ISLANDS.

Mr. MOWN, with reference to a-Bill then in progress
the House (the Colonial Residence wished to pitt
question to the Hon. Gentleman opposite him (Mr. Goiil-
burne). Fre understood that there had been an appoiiktraent.
alqt, i.e Marchant to he -civil Secretary of. Antigua, an
office ofgreat importance in the gevernment of that.
he wished to Know whether the appointment to it was by coin-
mission or patent.
Mr. GOULBURNE said, that the office of SeBretary; for all
the Leeward Islands had formerly been held hy one person,
but an the death of Mr. Osborne it had been deemed advisa-
ble to separate the office, and Mr. Le Mifrchant,. brother to
General Le Merchant, who was killed at the battle of Sala-,
maraca, had been appOinted by patent to he Secretary af. An-
tvith the express condition that he should resideat that
place.
Mr. CREEVEY asked whether the papers which had been
ordered, on his motion, relative to the- leave of ahsence of
Sir Evan Nepean from his ottide in the Island of Jamaica, had
been returned.
Mr. GOULBURN said, that a letter had. been wriften to
Jamaica on the subject of the order, and that no indisposi-
tion existed on the part of the Goveranient to affordrthe in-
formation wished for.
THE LATE NEGOCIATIONS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
before' he was prevented by the other business
which was to come before the House, he should
&all their attention to a subject of .the greatest
• magnitude. He had communicated to the House
before the recess, that it was the intention:of, his
Alajesty's Government to lay before the- House
the Papers which 'respected the conduct of the
late Negoeiations at Chatillon, and their final
rupture. - It was at that time deeMed by his, Ma-
jesty's Government to be their duty to lay as soon
as possible before Parliament the ground's of that
rupture, in order to call for its approbation
of that measure. Circumstances, however, had
'since occurred, which, in their opinion, rendered
this approbation unnecessary. The parties with
whom this country- had to negociate had been
changed by events too notorious to need to bere-
lated ahat House—events on which all minds
must have dwelt with joy. A -new negociation
bad in ponsequence been entered into, which, as
far as it was possible to judge from present ap-
pearances, would be attended with the most
happy results. (Hear, hear !) It was now deemed
inexpedient by his Majesty's Government, on ac-
count of the existing Negociation, to produce the
.Papers relative to that which bad been carried on
.at Chatillon', as the disclosure might be attended
with inconvenience.
Mr. WHITBREAD "said, he felt'surprised at the
communication which the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had qeemed it advisable to make. Siude
the time which the Right Honourable Gentle-
man had made his former communication, events
had occurred, greater than which had never, in so
short a space, been before witnessed. From these
events no one derived a greater pleasure than him-
' self ; tint he should deem it a dereliction of duty.
on the part of the House if it did not call for
those Papers which his Majesty's Government had
thought it advisable to withhold. Not only it be-
hoved the House not to be steam'. aside Ilon► its
duty by prosperity; but it became proper to exert
more than its usual vigour in discharging every
- part of that, duty, of which clearly a very material
one was to ascertain whether, in the conduct of a
most important Negociation, his 'Majesty's Minis-
ters had conducted themselves with peudence and
consistency. It was certainly their duty to trace the
• conduct of the Noble Lord (Lord Castlereagh) who
had been employed as Ambassador on that occa-
sion ; not that he thought-from what information
he (Mr. W.),hatl been able to obtain, that any
blame would be found to attach on that condUct,
but, o;!.the contrary, that it Would, be found de-
set ving of the highest praise. It was, however,
rather too much, after the confidence 'which the
House had reposed in the Governinent by ad-
tournment•aftee adjouroment, to enable them to
settle those great interests, which we had now`
happily so good reason to hope 'would be set-
tled most advantageously, that the House of
Commons of the United Kingdom should be
the only body which remained officially unac-
quainted with the progress of public events ;
not even having known that any negocia-;
Cons had been carried on until they had re-
ceived the notification of their rupture: The House
of Commons' would not act consistently with the'
dignified station which it held, if it did not call
for some account of these proceedings which 'it
was attempted to conceal. If the, Chancellor of
. the Exchequer had clearly stated, that.it was not
deemed expedient by his Majesty's Government,
now, to furnish the papers in question, be should
have been content to wait until the objections
to their prpduction were removed ; but if -it was
the inteution of those who had determiaed on
the` communication which had been made to with-
hold them now and ever, hee for one, should.
protest against, this doctrine ; and if he had been
the only Member who wished for their produe,
tion, lie should even then think irnecessary, to
avoid the imputation of a flagrant desertion of his
duty, by calling loudly for these papers. He could'
conceive that it might be improper to produce
these papers during the' progress of the'present
negociation.—(ilear !)--Did the Gentleman who
,cried, bear ! understand the Chancellor of the
Exchequer to have meant that it was for the nre-
,, sent oi4y tharit was meant to withhold these pa-'
perso? If such had been the meaning of the Right
Hon. Gentleman, or if such were now explained
to be his meaning, 0 the objections which he
(Mr. NV.) had made would vanish ; but if the ad-
visers of the Regent thought proper to W;thhold
•thein for ever, he should feel itelna duty, as a
Nember of Parliament, to endeavour to frustrate
such an attempt at concealment.,
The GAAS:CELLO:I of the Ii;XCH,‘F.QU,ER,Saitr, that
in the communickioa which lie ltiati made,
.there
w as
etiothing by which it was intended to pre-
clude Parliament from calling tat any future time

for in account of the lcegdciakidtls > thatilltin4-7
(1-iear,•.aeat ! troM the opposition Benches) and
he had not given any opinion whether di- Mit it
would be pi oper at any future time to lay the
papers before the House. What-he wished tn.be
understood to say-WO, that m the opinion of hit
Majesty's Ministers it was now intApedient r 0
produce them. For the confidence which had
been reposed in them by the House by its adjourn-
ment, the Goverinarnt, as the Hoh.Gentionnn had
truly said, were lunch judebted. The confidence
so reposed; he trtisted, they wohlsl not be found
to have abused ; and ail they asked was a •Con 7:
tinnance of the same confidence. ,
Mr. ‘ViIITBItEAD sairlhe could well compfebend
that it was not the intention of the Right lion.
Gentlemanto prevent that which he had, no power
to prevent, a vote of the HOUse for Iheprodue-
flan of the papers ; but notwithstanding 'the 'cir,
durtiloctitory 'winner in which that Gentleman had
expressed hithself,, it appeared that those who had
advi§ed the.- present Message deemed it espe-
ciient withhold for. ever those_ papers which
ten days 'ago- they had promised to lay, before
the House. If when tbe account of the present
Negoeition should be 'laid before Parliament,
the production of the papers relative to the INTeI
goeiation Nvlich had been broken off at Qhati,llon
should not-appear improper, '!lie should persist
in calling for them. The confidence which he
had.repOsed' in his Majesty's Ministers by those
•-djournments, to which he had never objected,
he act not. repented ; but it was unreasonable to
demand its continuance before it was seen whether
or no they had been worthy of it.
The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHERTI ER said, •that
!IA not expressed an opinion that it would be
inexpedient at some future time-to lay the papers
before the Honse. He repeated, that it was Ihis
meaning that it was nOt'now deemed expedient by
his Majesty's Ministers to lay before the-House
e those:papers which a short time, ago they thought
it their duty to. produce.
CORRUPTION OF BLOOD AND PUNISHAEND OF
HIGH TREASON. ,

Sir S. ROMILLY Moved the second reading of his two Bills
to amend the law respecting-Corruption of Blood and the
Penalties of I;igh Treason.
After a few words from Mr: YORKE, the Bills were Seve-
rally lead a second time, and ordered to be committed this
day se'unight. ..: . ...
COLONIAL OFFICERS BILL.

On the question, that the SPEAKER should leave the Chair,
Mr. CREEVEY opposed the Bill being commit-
ted. It was no Bill of Reform, but a Bill to sanc-
tify sins of 32 years standing against a Bill of Re-
form. Instead of agreeing to the Bill being com-
mitted, he should propose a resolution,, that the
law had been violated both in letter and in spirit,
and that steps should be taken to give vigour to
The original Act. Recent events should' make
Gentlemen cautious ut sanctioning such a Bill as
the present and he trusted that, with the return
of peace, the attention of Pariiiiment would be
turned to every branch of the public expenditure.
,He concluded with moving an amendment, leav-
ing out all the words after the word ". that," and
substituting certain resolutions, which he read.
Mr. GOULBURN expected at first no opposition
to the Bill. It was the same as that introduced
by Lord Shelburne, in the Lords, which was ob-
jected to in the House of Commons at that time.

If the Bill went to deprive persons of tke
eniolu-
,ments Of places granted to them, it might be ob-
jectionable. He could not see how those who
bad supported Mr. Banks's Reform Bill, could ob-
ject to this; for that Bill supported all vested in-
terests. As to the leave of ,absence, it was left
entirely under the statute of.the 22d of the King.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH, after sonic prefatory
remarks, observed, that the abuse of non-residence
(lid not apply to the East Indies, Where the regu-
Jatious concerning absence were wise and honour-
able, and useful for the public service. Though
he did riot agree in all that 'had been stated re-
specting vested interests in places held during
good behavirinr; ,yet it was always necessary to
consider that inviolable respect which should ac-
company all political plans of practical reform,
which was flue to long established habits and
practices, even tholigh acquired under the undue
connivance of Government. Many, no doubt, had
lorneed their whole plans of life on non-residence :
many had received appointments even before they
were of sufficient ate. They Ought not, therefae, to
be punished for anyconni vance between their friends
and relations and former Governments: This
would he against the maxims of political wisdom,
as laid down particularly by a person Of great
authority. The commonwealth was fixed. Ten=
derness to individuals cost nothing. The com-
monwealth was permanent : regard to time in fa-
vour of individual interests was of no conse-
quence. It was also important to consult the,
general feelings, and to prevent the introduction
of personality and party hostility into a work of
reformation. Long practised permission§, if not
of strict right, should therefore be consulted. At,
. the same time it could not,bp denied that the whole
practice from 1782 till now had been a series of
abases, and a violation of the intentions of
the legislature, in favour of non-residents. A
contrary course might 'be adopted, the effect of
whiph would be to throw into the hands' uf the'
present Ministers an enormous patronage, on the
ground of the misuse of it by their predecessors.
He could not so far compliment them for perfect.
qquity as to suppose. they could make no other use
of this but to reward those gallant and.signal ser-
vices which raised British glory beycmd the ex-
ample of all former ages (a laugh). He moved to
omit all the words in the clause respecting sub-
sisting interests, except what related to the East
Indies.

. STEPHEN arguesl at some length in defence
of what he had before stated concerning vested in-
terests, which he contended was perfectly correct,
notwithstanding All,the clamour and criticism, and
all the ridicule that had been used. lie, wiShed,
the learned Lexicographer (Mr. Creevey) p;,define
what he meant, and justify,. the sarcasms oti
Master in Chancery." ,reSted interest was, in
fact, Opposed to contingent interest. Would it,
be contended that no interest was vested, unless
granted by patent ? What of places during life for
good behaviour ? When our gallant defenders re-
tiring-on half-pay were spoken of; was.that half-
pay by patent ? instead of a public-splrited and just
reform, it would be a jacobin reform to proceed on
other principles, aniVto- take away such interests,

*ithiiht a itbnipeiitatibli. Leave of ithience Was
wise, as it gave a periodical return to
and means of pinging 6,4' the driiSs acquired from
the manners of n country lb different from otrr
own; and of renewing the moral stamina. Like
the giant Antzeus; Men recovered their strength
by towing again to their mother earth. Thepub-
lic would not save a shilling by a-rash unprincl
pled alteration ; but, on the contrary; would find
a hurdle:). These sinecures would be nb longer
a relief to other barthens, by being bestowed as
merited rewards.'
Mr. CitEth'''EY admitted patent rights,. but not
those quamdiy• se bole sserint, in which case the
nbseutee,. by not pt.rforming Hs duty, had no
vested interest. Vested rights-did apply to places
held -during pleasure. The. Learned Gentleman
would :say in his office, • that a claim on a legal
settlement was a ',vested interest ; but 'if on a
place in Jamaica, held during pleasure, he would
call
,it only a contingent interest, as the House
might destroy it the next day.
Mr. P. MookE opposed the. Bill, as be did not
think a case had been made out of any existing
evil which required to, be removed. He thought
that , much more information should have been
given to the. House 'of the state of those colonial
Governments, before such a measure was intro-
duced..

Sir S. RoMItLv observed; that When his Hon.
and Learned Friend (Mr. Stephen), had .spoken
about/ vested interests in those places held at the
pleasure of the Crown, the House • had 'certainly
understood him as using the terns not in the mere
legal and technical signification, but in that sense
in which it had-been generally used, of an interest
of which a‘mari •could not be, divested without a
violation of justice. In the strict legal sense, the
word Vests(' was only used in contra-distinction to
contingent interests ; 'awl every thing that a man
was in possession of, even a tenantry at will, was
a vested interest. In that strict and technical use
of the word, it was enough to say that Sir Evan.
Nepean wit'Siii possession of a certain office, and
that, therefore, it was a vested interest ; bat this
was certainly not the sense in which the term was•
generally understood in that House, when it
was used as bearing- upon a question about re-
forming offices.. ' • ,
Mr. STEPHEN, in
_explanation, said, that .he
conceive((" that a man could not, without a viola-
tion of justice, have conditions now imposed up-
on him differing from those under which he had
accepted the place. It was not, however, abotit'
places held during pleasure that he •'had been
speaking ; knit about places huld.for life or during
good behaviour. - .
' Mr. MARRYAT thought that a very sufficient
ground had been laid for the Bill when firSt it was
introduced. It was
.notorions that the white po-
pulation of the islands had been very materially
diminished of late. The colonial Governments
-had been obliged to make enactments for the pur-
pose of kseeping up a respectable white population ;
and they must feel it a great grievance, that men
holding such lucrative situntions in _those islands
should absent themselves. A great number of the
estates in the West India Islands had lately been
.sold or given up to European creditors, and one '
agent now superintended many estates on which
formerly many white proprietors,' with their fa-
milies, used to reside. • .
Mr. WiaiTitßiss.n was sorry that an Honourable
and Learned Gentleman ' (Arr. Stephen) should
have considered that any sarcas'lnS had beset di-
rected against him. If he possessed the pdweriof
sarcasm, he should nut direct it agaiuSt him,' as,
he was convinced it would flot produce any elect
on that Honourable and Learned Gentleman, but
be thrown away, as a taunt inzbelie. it Was the..
Honourable and Learned Gentleman who . had
himself mentioned the sittlation he held, and, he
could not see how it could be considered •sarciastii
to allude to his situation as Master of Chsucerv.
When that Honourable Gentleman had used the
term vested interest, he, together with .all the un-
learned part of the House, did suppose he used
it in thkt sense that it was generally used. in
that House,' as a right of which at. man could
not be divested without a violation of justice. IT,
however,- the Honourable and Learned Gentle--
man- only used it in the technical sense, it
meant nothing more than- saying that Sir Evau
Ndpean and Mr. King shad the offices which they
held ; and this was a position that would certain-
ly not be disputed. The Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman had now said,' that it would be a violation-
of justice to impose
,upon a man different•condi-
tions irons those under- which he accepted his
place.. The conditions, however, were pretty' well
understood at the :one of acceptim those places;
and in the commission appointing Sir Evan
Nepean there were the following words :—" To
have, hold, exercise, and enjoy the'sames dining.
such time as be shall execute the office, in per-
son, awl conduct himself •Well therein.'t 'When
-such Words as these were in the commission
under which lie held the place, lie could not
conceive how requiring him to execute the
office in person could he considered as imposing
new conditions on him. Those who had held
those offices so long without residing, could not
he supposed ignorant of the positive statute that
required their residence. Such ignorance of the
law would .not be allowed as an excuse for a child
who had committed a capital offence. SiRsE van.
Nepean, however, perfectly well knew that it was
necessary for him to go over to Jamaica, and eit?-
tain leave of absence in order to enjoy...the eMolu.
ments of his office ; and, he did go over to Jamaica,-
and, after a residence of two days only (as I:e.Was
informed), he,returneal with his leave of absence..
Was it possible, then, that' he (lid not kit 3w
that he was evading the intention of the la v ?
He would have been glad to have, seen s we
of those leaves of absence, - but . he believed
that. those Gentlemen bolding those offices had
all lost them. Au Honourable Gentleman, in
speaking of this measure, had used the term
Jacobin Reform. Now this term appeared to
come " a day after the fair." He trusted that
"that was an old obsolete terns which would never
return. Gentlemen might very easily select some
Pther to express their meaning. The Hon. add
Learned Gentleman (Mr. .Stephen) appeared. to
have entirely forgotten who were the speakers 0-a.
t 4 late discussion, as he had ate ibuted expres-

stoils io an on. niend of his; NViio, this know'
lcd Wks tt Brighton at iiiAt time, .
Mr. BAOII7II.ST, jun. said a few word:; in favOur of th 4
mroocitn.thTßN explained. • •
Sir F. FLOOD said he would vote for the Bill, because,. _
his conscience, he thought it would be.unjust to tu!,
interests of those persons who had reedited them as rovaro
for public services performed by theni.
The House then went into the Committee.---O° „he
las:.
clause being read, '

Mr. A. IfilOWN'E oted.that it he left out. ,--
A ditis ion took placetn;—For the clause, 33 ; against it, 9!
The report to-morrow,
The.seeond reading of the East India Shil:Ping Bills vi-11incbri
stood forta-morrow, was, on the motion of, the uANcewe„
of the ExcutquEn, pottponed to Thursday _C
sdaY ib,nnight•
Adjourned. . '
___,...e.