The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-11 00:00:00

IrtIPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 10.
Their Lordships met at Five o'clock.
The Bi3hop of EXETER presented a petition from
some parish in Devonshire, praying for an additional
gratit to Church schools.
The Earl of RODEN presented several petitions
against the Rite in Aid Bill.
The Earl of EG LINTON presented several petitions
in favour of the Bill for the better protection of women.
INDICTABLE OFFENCES (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved the second
reading of this Bill.
After a short conversation the motion was agreed to.
SUMMARY CONVICTIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of the Marquis of CLANRICARDE,
this Bill as read a sec end time.
BEER ACT.

The Earl of HARROWBY presented several peti-
tions against the Beer Act.
EXCHEQUER-BILLS BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
BANKRUPTCY LAWS CONSOLIDATION BILL.
On the motion of Lord BROUGHAM, this Bill was
ordered to be reecommitted and referred to the Select
Committee on the Bankruptcy Laws.
DESERTERS (PORTUGAL) BILL.
On the motion of Lord EDDISBURY, this Bill was
read a second time.
STANDING ORDERS—REPORTING TIIE PRO
CEEDINGS OF THE ROUSE.
Lord BEAUMONT, in moving the consideration of
the standing order No. 30, said that undoubtedly
the origin of the custom of excluding strangers
was to secure freedom of speech to their Lordships, but
latterly the attempts to enforce the order had been pro-
ductive of the most ludicrous scenes, and therefore of
late years no attempts have bet n made to enforce it,
and tie public had been admitted. lie went the
full length of the opinion that their delibera-
tions should be public, both for the benefit of the
public and for the dignity of their Lordships' House,
and if their Lordships did not go the full length with
him, they must admit that it was very inconsistent in
them to connive at a breach of privilege by the publica-
tion of reports of the proceedings. But, howsoever
they mtlit decide eh that point, there could
not be a doubt but that it was desircable that the
reports should be correct and impartial.—(Hear.)
Ile could plot many eases in which reports had been
neither correct nor impartial, in which the arguments on
o,toielesrid;einhaNsd.hhiceh qu
en given and had been suppressed on the
c
estions put to Ministers had been
correctly given, while the answers had been incor-
rectly given. In the reports of some of the
speakers on the navigation laws he found in some
instances a skeleton, a mere sketch of some
of the most important speeches. It was there-
fore desirable that those engaged in reporting their
speeches should be placed in such a position as to have
no excuse for incorrect reporting. If their Lordships
should rcftue to reconsider the standing order, still he
should propose to plaee the reporters in such a
situation as ho had described, and in order
to do that it would he nEcessary to move for
Scdect Committee who might examine witnesses,
some of whom would be architects. If the standing
order were considered, that must be done in a Com-•
mittee of Privilege, otherwise this question might be
referred to a Si,leet Committee, and to one of them he
proposed to refer this question. The Noble Lord con-
cluded by moving that the House do take into consider-
the standing order No. 30.
The Mitt quis of LANSDOWNE must say that he
felt an icsup-rable objection to the abrogation of the
standing order ; but while he objected to the repeal of
that standing order, he f It that so long as persons were
in the habit of reporting their debates, that standing order
gave them the power of preserving their privileges ; and
he was bound to s.iy that although he might sometimes
have sufLred from being misuuderstotA, he believed
that on every occasion those employed in reporting their
debates did so conscientiously, and without being
actuated by any motives but those of discharging their
duty correctly ; indeed, he was surprised at the
accuracy and the correctness with which those
duties were performed, considering the ertilculties
under which those so engaged laboured in consequence
of the confusion prevailing at times in their Lordships'
House. He thought every facility ought to be given to
them, and he had no objection to the appointment of the
Committee.
Lord BROUGHAM was opposed to the abrogation of
the standing order. They connived at the publication
of their debates. He should be very sorry if they did
not so connive—the public would suffer, their Lord-
ships themselves would suffer, legislation would suffer, if
their debates sere not published; but still it would be
desirable that such publication should take place
by connivance rather than by direct p.ermis-
sion.—(llear hear.) He entirely concurred in the
_
panegyric which his Noble Friend had pronounced on
those engaged in giving their debates to
t difficult,
and task oreporting their debates
was
most h
and it was performed admirably, and ingeneral in the
spirit of the strictest impartiality, and those difficulties
had of late been greatly increased by the construction
the magnificent hall in which they were assembled.
The Marquis of
LONDONDERRY thought it
of
de-
sirable that the reporters should be so located as to be
able to hear distinctly all that passed.
Lord REDESDALE said the only remedy would be
to bring the centre gallery more forward into the House,
when the parties in that gallery would not be annoyed
by the buzz of conversation below the bar.
The Earl of GALLOWAY denied the accuracy of
the reports. When an humble individual like himself
was forced to addri ss the House they generally well
considered what they said, and it had been his unhappy
fate to find that words were put into his mouth, and
that not one word of what he said had been reported.
Earl GREY thought it would ho well if the old cus-
tom were revived, of enforcing silence on strangers by
icstructing the officers of the House to enforce it.
The Earl of MALMESBURY said that he consi-
dered that there should be an official reporter belonging
to their Lordships, such as was the case in Committees,
and that by such a course their Lordships would not be
apprehensive of any erroneous reports in the public
papers.
Lord MONTEAGLE said that he should dissent
from that course, because if an official reporter were
appointed, their Lordships would be bound by his re-
ports, and he was fully persuaded there would be as
much, if not more, inaccuracy than at present; and he
also believed that the exertions of the reporters deserved
a general commendation.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he did not
wish to confer any more privileges on the Lord Chan-
cellor than he at present possessed. He had the greatest
faith in the opinion of the distinguished architect to
whom their Lordships were indebted for so beautiful a
building, and he believed that it was through the buzz
below the bar that the reporters could not hear.
eArelitosaid, that if the most eloquent of
see his words reported as de-
ould find that many of, his speeches
ltihveLeirrocr.
dijd,oßrtdhßsahOtiUphseGyswH,
were not remarkable for purity or accuracy of diction,
and that much credit was due to the reporters.
The Marquis of SALISBURY said, that he perfectly
agreed with the Noble Earl (Earl Grey) that the officers
of the House should attend to prevent noise below the
bar, and at the other end of the House.
Lord BEAUMONT said, that he had not heard any-
thing from their Lordships to induce him to alter his
opinion, for he looked upon that standing order as use-
lietostsrdtsep
' tisa .hliiil'eta e
to Weis
make such arrangements as they should
think necessary for the accommodation of strangers, that
they might better hear the debates in that House.
The motion was then agreed to.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that it was the
Intention of her Majesty's Government that their Lord-
ships
go into Committee on the navigation-laws on next
and that if any amendments were to
be introduced, thatht' they would bo given notice of and
written Monday a ss
as
possible, as he hoped that that mea-
sure would pass through Committee on that night.
Lord STANLEY said that several amendments would
be given notice of, and that he hoped the Bill would go
through Committee in one night.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE said that he hoped that the
papers relating to the rate in aid would be furnished to
their Lordships as early as possible to-morrow.
Lord LANSDOWNE said he would attend to tha
request.

l'he Earl of WICKLOW said that he had seen some
of those papers, and that they did not give the least in-
formation relative to the income-tax on the rent of pro-
perty derivable from Ireland.
Lord STANLEY wished to know whether her Ma
jcsty's Government intended to introduce any amend-
ments
n the navigation-laws ?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said Government
would not make any alteration whatever in the Bill, but
that it would be passed as it at present stood.
The Bishop of OXFORD presented a petition, signed
by 700 of the Bachelors of Arts and Under Graduates of
Oxford College against a clause in the Criminal Con-
solidation Bill, relating to certain punishments on Chap-
ters, should they oppose the election of any Bishop re-
commended by the Crown.
Lord BROUGHAM said that he would consider that
matter as the opinions of such persons, as the petitioners
were worthy of attention and respect.
The Bishop of OXFORD said that he would postpone
the Seduction Bill to another fortnight, at the instance of
his Noble Friend, but hoped that it would not be put off
any longer.

Lord MOUNTCASHEL and the Marquis of WESTMIN-
STER presented several petitions from the Wesleyan
Methodists in favour of that Bill.
Lord MONTEAG LE moved a resolution to the effect
that no railway Bill now pending before their Lordships
should be read a third time before the 18th inst.
The motion was agreed to.
Lord COLCHESTER, presented a petition from the
tenant farmers of various places in Sussex, praying their
Lordships to take immediate steps for the removal of
the heavy turdens at present weighing on the agricultural
classes.

Lord MONTEAGLE gave notice ti at cn Monday
next ho should move for certain a3ccuots rekting, to the
Caledonian Railway.
Their Lordships then adjourred.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 10.
The SPEAKER toil the Chair at Four o'clock.
THIRD READINGS.
The following Bills were read a third time and pissed:
Ash ton•un-2er• L 3 no Police, Markets, and Improve-
ment Acts Extension and A mendm:nt, and Transferenc e
of Gas and Waterworks and other Property to the
Corporation.
River I)un Natigation Company (Pardue of Stain-
forth and Keadby Canal).

REPORTS.
The reports upon the following Biqa were coasidercd
and agreed W;—

NATIONAL EDUCATION.
Mr. HEYWOOD gave notice of his intention at an
early day to move for a Royal Commission of Inquiry
into the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge, and Dublin,
with a view to the improvement of national education.
BOMBAY STEAM-VESSEL.
Mr. URQUIIART rose to put a question to the
First Lord of the Treasury resp:cting the detention of
the Bombay steam-vessel of war. He would beg to ask
whether the First Lord of the Treasury would lay on
the table of the House the base submitted to couesel,
and their opinion thereupon?
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER said
the affidavits on both sides had been submitted to the
law officers of the Crown, who had given their decision
on the case. It was not usual to lay a case and opinion
of counsel before the House in such cases, and he de-
clined to do so in the present instance ; but he might
say (as we understood) that the opinion of counsel
was against the detention of the vessel.
ENTRY OF THE RUSSIANS INTO HUNGARY.
Mr. OSBORNE gave notice that to-morrow he would
put a question to the First Lord of the Treasury rela-
tive to the advance of the Russian troops into Hungary,
and ask whether the Government intended to offer the
mediation of this country in favour of the Hungarians,
GREEK LOAN.
In reply to Mr. COCHRANE,
Lord PALMERSTON said that communications bad
passed with the Greek Government, in which the Go-
vernment of this country pressed upon them to make
good their engagement, which they were bound to do by
treaty; and they had promised to apply the first funds
at their command for that purpose.
In reply to Mr. "URQUHRT,
Lord PALMERSTON stated that the whole of the
Sicilian papers would be laid before the House when
the existing negotiations had terminated.
INTRAMURAL BURIALS.
Mr. MACKINNON stated, in reply to Mr. Henry
Berkeley, that after the promises which had been made
by the Government, it was not his intention to bring in
any Bill on the subject of intramural interments.
MOLDAVIA AND WALLACHIA.
Lord PALMERSTON, in reply to Mr. Anstey, said
that he had received no official information of fortifica-
tions being erected in the provinces of Moldavia and
Wallachia by the Russians, although he had heard, but
not officially, that barracks bad been erected.
ADULTERATION OF COFFEE WITH CHICORY.
Mr. ANSTEY rose to move the following resolutions:
—" That this House views with serious; concern and
disapprobation the great and growing increase of the
consumption of the p!ant chicory in the adulteration of
coffee, contrary to Act of Parliament; such increase
having been, in the opinion of this House, chiefly
owing to the orders given by the Administration to the
officers of Excise not to enforce the said Act.
That the direct results of such orders have been the
fraudulent sale of ground chicory, under the name and
at the current prices of ground coffee; a corresponding
depreciation of the value and decrease in the con-
sumption-of coffee; increased depression and distress in
Ceylon and other coffee growing colonies; a perma-
nent loss of revenue to the actual amount of some
hundreds of thousands of pounds annually, and which
loss in the last year was augmented by the addition
of about forty thousand pounds more ; the prejudice of
the fair dealer ; discontent and disaffection in the colo-
nies ; and th© encouregement of the evil-disposed, both
at home and abroad, to disobey laws which must appear
to them to depend upon the arbitrary pleasure of Admi-
nistration for sanction and enrorcement." He proceedsd
to state that there were certain Acts of Parliament, of
no ancient date, passed for the double purpose of
protecting revenue and the trade of the colonies, and
also of preventing the frauds of individuals. Those
Acts had in view the prevention of mixing certain dele-
terious ingredients with tea and coffee, and particularly
the adulteration of coffee with chicory powder. By the
3d George IV., cap. 53, there was a recital, that it was
expedient to allow the manufacture and sale of scorched
and roasted vegetable substances by persons not being
dealers in coffee and cocoa ; and then it enacted that
persons, not being dealers in coffee, might roast and
sell such substances: and there was a clause which for-
bid the Excise to grant any licenses for that purpose to
any person being a dealer in coffee or cocoa. The ob-
ject of the enactment was not to deprive the poor of the
right to manufacture there substances for themselves if
they chose, and it had in view the prevention of grocers
making money at the expense of the public by selling
cheap substances roasted and ground in that manner
under the name and at the selling price of coffee.
The Lords of the Treasury, he said, had, in a minute,
allowed the sale of chicory, and by doing so, had taken
a most extraordinary view, which was opposed not only
to Acts of Parliament, but also to the principles
of finnace and to public moralty. After that
minute there were no more prosecutions with
regard to the use of chicory; and the consequence
was that ground chicory was sold under the name and
at the current prices of ground coffee, thus producing a
great depression in the coffee market. That, however,
was not tho only evil, for a great loss resulted to the rove •
nue; and supposing that one pound of chicory was sold for
every pound of coffee, the difference annually in the re-
venue would be 600,0001. He did not complain of the
growth of chicory: the Legislature sanctioned it; but the
Legislature, whilst it did not forbid, regulated the sale
of chicory; and he called upon the house to enforce its
own laws on this subject. The amount of coffee brought
into our market in 1848 was greater than in any former
year, and the price was much less ; and yet the con-
sumption of coffee had been gradually declining
for years. Down to the 21st April, 1848, the
amount of coffee entered for consumption in the port of
London, and five of the principal outports of the United
Kingdom was 9,721,618 lbs.; whereas at the same ports
the amount entered fur consumption down to the
same day in 1849 was 9,224,879, showing a decrease
for that short period of 496 7391b5., or in round numbers
about 221 tons below the already depreciated amount of
last year. If that were so, why was not the law imme-
diately enforced against those frauds which were carried
on in direct violation of an act of the Legislature?
The properties of chicory were not of a nature to make
a wholesome bey( rage, much less to justify its being
safely used as a substitute for coffee, for it was nothing
more than the cultivated root of the dandelion. It ap-
peared from a memorial which was presented to the House
that the dealers in it were in the habit of mixing at least
one-third, and, in many instances, a half with the coffee
which they sold. So profitable had this public nuisance
become, that parties bad already begun to adul-
terate it, and dealers were now selling to the
poor of this country, burnt and ground biscuits,
burnt and ground clay, burnt and ground rags,
and burnt and ground rope yarn, for chicory.--
(A laugh.) The amount of coffee imported being greater
than in any preceding year, and the amount
consumed in 1848 being so much less, was
not affected by any statement made up to the end of
last year, much less by any statement made up to the
period of the last returns; because the result
would simply be, that at coffee prices
that coffee scarcely bad any sale at all ;
and what sales had been effected had
been at the expense of the unfortunate party who was
permitted to sell by the chicory laws. Now, he put it
to the House whether any statement of the Right Hon.
Baronet founded on the apparent increase during the
peat year in the consumption of one or two
descriptions of colonial coffee could outbalance the fact
that the supposed increase bore no proportion to the in-
crease in the import, ar.d the fact that there
had been a decrease in the amount of

colonial coffee cunsucnd in that period ?
The most obvious course which could be taken to

avoid all these *nib was to ascertaiu whether the