The Sun.
London, England, 1825-02-15 00:00:00

[NEW TIMES.]

The Debate on the Catholic Association was a
third time adjourned this morning at one o'clock.
We scarcely remember an instance of so pro-
tracted a Debate on a mere motion for leave to
bring in a Bill ; and at first sight it seems
strange that a measure demanded by the general
voice of the people of England should be thus
opposed. The public has quite made up its mind
that the Catholic Association is a nuisance, and'
must be put down. It is injurious to the Catholic
cause ; it is hostile to the Constitution; it is incom-
patible with the public peace. Why then do the Op-
position Members so pertinaciously resist the bring-
ing in a Bill to abate this nuisance? Why adjourn
from night to night ? Why weary out the patience
of all who hear, and of all who read the Debates ?
We confess, we know not—the matter, indeed,
world be intelligible enough, if there were such
a thing as speaking against time. It is said, that
tho Catholic Association is likely to dissolve it-
self in a few weeks. Should this happen, it
might perhaps be argued that as the danger was
over the. Bill should be given up—and in. this
view a procrastination of the early stages of the
Bill might be material. But who can be so weak
as not to see through the pretended dissolution
of the Association ? It could hardly delude a child
who has sense to detect Harlequin's transforma-
tions in a Pantomime. Whether the mem-
bers chOose to call themselves a Catholic Associ-
ation or a Liberal Club is of 'no sort of conse-
, quence to themselves or to anybody else. The
organization must be.broken up. The political
agency of the Priest, iu collecting an-unconsti-
tutional tax for a factious purpose (an agency
so alien to their spiritual character), ienst be put
an end to. We must have no Catholic Item.—
Let Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Shiel meet and com-
pliment each other as much as they . like. It
will do no harm (except to Irish taste) for one

of those Gentlemen to tell the other he is " fit to
write history with a pencil of light ; " or for
the object of the compliment to reply that he
" sinks under the load of so much eulogy."—
But they must not form a permanent Committee
of Grievances for all Ireland—they must not stop
the progress of prosperity in their country—they
must not substitute envy, hatred, and all uncha-
ritableness for the growing habits of industry,
and order, and peacefulness. We are told there
will be danger in attempting to crush this growing,
dragon. Danger ! And therefore we are to suf-
fer the monster's scales to harden, and its fangs to
sharpen, and its wings to expand ! No ; let no
Government ever suffer a power to grow up within
its empire which it cannot con troul. At present
the Catholic Association may be easily suppressed ;
suffer it to go on a twelvemonth longer, and it
will defy the power of Parliament. At this !ate
hour we have not time to enter into a detailed
view of the able speech of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. It will be read with deep interest,
and not the less so as proceeding from a Minister,
who in relieving that part of the empire from so
many of its burthens, in promoting so largely its
industry and commerce, and in opening to it the
path to wealth and happiness, has proved himself
the sincere and steadfast Friend of Ireland.

[TII E TIMES.]
Mr. Goulburn's measure lingers on. In truth,
we are of opinion-that Ministers will not lose an
inch of ground worth keeping, by the tardy and
hesitating progress of their preparatives against
the Catholic Association. Of a bill which can-
not, in the nature of things, be effectual if brought
to maturity, it authors would have surely no rea-
son to lament strangulation in the hour of
giving it birth. The more we consider the
subject of this strange measure, the more
is our early opinion confirmed—that Ministers
might as well undertake to catch the winds,
or to fix the ocean, as to destroy the body against
which they have declared hostilities. If asked
how this coercive law can be evaded) we answer
—by any one of a thousand acts, which, under
any conceivable system of law, each individual of
the 3,000 composing the Association might every
day perform. The law may be eluded by every
man who can put his hand in his pocket and pay
money to another. It may be eluded by the
change of a name. It may be eluded by a weekly
or half-weekly calling together of an aggregate
meeting—by a dinner, or a succession of dinners,
where speeches are made and reported—where
seditious sentiments may be conveyed under words
that are intangible ; and—what is worse than
all, but what the Government would do well to
be prepared for—the defeat of the law may be
consummated by deep concealment, by meetings
at which no speeches are reported, and where
transactions take place, of which we shall know
nothing until we see them developed in their
fruits. It is remarkable that Mr. Plunkett,
throughout his whole speech of Friday, said not
one syllable in vindication of the efficacy of
this threatened Act of Parliament : he never
once had the boldness to affirm, that it was
an Act which could be executed. His treat-
ment of this part of the subject was decisive.—
" Mr. O'Connell, and the other leaders, are too
" high-minded, too honourable, to think of a
" pettifogging evasion of the law !" So, then,
the Legislature is about to throw itself on the
mercy of those whom it is visiting with penalties.
We hope you are much too generous to resist ;
" for, see—we have nothing but blank cartridges
"in our pouches !" A pretty system of coercion
—pretty children's play ! Now look at the
consistency of those who talk about the ne-
cessity of crashing the Catholic Association
by Act of Parliament. They say, first—
" These are violent and dangerous men ; we must
44 overpower them." " Ay, but," rejoin the op-
ponents of the measure, " you cannot in this way
" put them down : they will contrive a hundred
" loop-holes through which to escape the net-
" work of your Bill." To this the King's At-
torney-General had no better answer than—
" Dear me, how can you fancy that such re-
" spectable Gentlemen would condescend to
" evade an Act of Parliament ? " Then we
desire to know Mr. Plunkett, how can
they be the violent or dangerous men which
you set out with describing them ? how
can they he possessed by those passions or incli•
nations against which you call upon us to legis-
late, when you rest the efficiency of your own
penal enactments on the unwillingness of these
gentlemen to evade a law which in defiance
of them you thereby acknowledge could never
be• enforced. This is an amendment of the
Convention Act; and you assure us the Catholics
will not think of evading it, because it expresses
the solemn will of Parliament. Then what
was the Convention Act itself, but the solemn
will of Parliament ? And have not the Catholics
evaded that ? And are you not now trying to
cram a supplementary Convention Act down the
throat of Parliament on the distinct charge, made
by the Prime Minister, Lord Liverpool, that the
associators have committed an evasion of that
original Act, while the Attorney-General for Ire-
land vindicates the amendment on the broad ground
that the Catholics are too good subjects to run
counter to any wish of the Legislature : that is
to say, that they are men against whom it is
needless to provide by any penal or coercive
Statute ! Verily, the reasonings which support
the Bill seem worthy of the consequences
which are likely to arise from it--viz. worse than
nothing.

On Saturday evening, a fellow delivered a lk-
ter to a female servant of Mr. Bothsa, the musician, at Cra-
ven Hill, directing her to repair imm:diately to him at 34,
Sloane-street, which, after shutting up the house, she imme-
diately did. On her arrival Mr. B. expressed extreme sur-
prise ; but suspecting a trick, he returned home, when he
found some fellow had entered by the window and carried off
a quantity of plate, apparel, tc.c.
Yesterday, about two o'clock, as a scavenger's
cart, belonging to Mr. Stapleton, of NV hitefriars.
wharf, was.passing through Gray's-inn-lane, one
of the wheels suddenly came off, and fell with
the whole weight of the loaded cart on the
driver. The poor fellow was picked up as quickly
as possible, and conveyed in a hackney-coach to
St. Bartholomew's Hospital. II is skull is dread•
fully fractured, and but faint hopes are entertain-
ed of his recovery.

AMERICA.

In the House of Representatives, on the 6th
ult., the following Message from the President
was received :

" To the Senate and House of Representatives of the United

States.

" As the term of my service in this high trust will expire at
the end of the present Session of Congress, I think it proper to
invite your attention to an object very interesting to me, and
which, in the movement of our Government, is deemed, on
principle, equally interesting to the public. I have been long
in the service of my country, and in its most difficult conjec-
tures, as well abroad as at home, in the course of which I have
had a controul over the public monies to a vast amount. lf, in
the course of my service, it shall appear on the most severe
scrutiny, which I invite, of of others, for which I ought to
he held responsible, lam willing to bear it. If, on the other
hand, it shall appear, on a view of the law, and of precedents in
other cases, that justice has been withheld from me., in any in-
stance, as 1 have believed it to be in many, and greatly to my
injury, it is submitted whether it ought not to be reconsidered.
It is my wish that all matters of account and claims between my
country and myself be settled with that strict regard sto justice
which is observed in settlements between individuals in private
life. It would be gratifying to me, and it appears to he just,
that the subject should be now examined, in both respects, with
a view to a decision hereafter. No bill would, it is presumed,
be presented for my signature, which would operate either for
or against me, and r would certainly sanction none in my
favour. While here, I can furnish testimony, applicable to
any case, in both views, which a full investigation may
require, and the Committee to whom the subject may be
referred, by reporting facts now, with a view to a de-
cision after my retirement, will allow time for further
information, and due consideration of all matters relating there-
to. Settlements with a person in this trust, which could not
be made with the accounting Officers of the Government, should
always be made by Congress, and before the public. The
_cause of the delay in presenting these claims will be explained
by the Committee to whom the subject may be referred. It will,
piod
I presume, be made apparent that it was inevitable ; that, from
the peculiar circumstances attending each case, Congress alone
could decide on it ; and that, from considerations of delicacy it
fromwould
Congresshave
ae
tn
anhighly
improper for me to have sought it
earlier
er
in than that which is now pro-
posed, the expiration of my term this high trust.
" Other considerations appear to me to operate with great
force, in favour of the measure which I now propose. A cid-
if lie has served with fidelity, to enjoy undisturbed
zen, who has long served his country, in its highest trusts, has
a right,
tranquillity and peace in his retirement. This he cannot ex.
pect to do, unless his conduct, in all pecuniary concerns. shall
be
ein g precedent,
known
thatiri thestc
scrutinyturemovwemasenmtaodfethine
be placed, by severe scrutiny, on a basis not to be shaken.
h
This, therefore, forms a strong motive with me for the haquiry
which I now invite. The public may also 'derive considerable
case, it may form a new and strong b • ' the
abuse barrier against
abuse of the public confidence in future.
" JAMES MONROE."
4, Washington, sth January, 1825."
aGdOvVaenrtnaglee Government. tth

THE DUKE OF NORTUMBERLAND•

[The following is an extract from a letter re-
ceived this morning from a Correspondent at
Newcastle-upon-Tyne.]

The rumour that has for some little time been in circulation,
that his Grace the Duke of NOIITHUMBERLATD would be•
his MAJESTY'S representative at the approaching Coronation
of the King of France, being confirmed by the official notificr.-
tion made in the Gazette, on Tuesday last, the intelligence has
diffused the greatest satisfwaion to the Gentry, &c. of North-
umberland. And it is v,..ry natural it should be so ; for there-
is no Nobleman in all the land more highly esteemed and be.-
loved for his splendid virtues, than the illustrious head of the
ancient house of PERCY—of whom it may be justly said, with-
out a -compliment—