The Sun.
London, England, 1831-04-14 00:00:00

,ow totally changed, and whatever fav ur this part of the
measure had been regarded with would new be taken away.
The country would judge between him and the Govern-
ment.—(Hear, hear.' The Hon. Menikr for Preston,
who knew something of the opinions of a portion of the
people, told then, last night that the people were hostile to
the Bill. He told them that he had taken the opinions
of two hundred thousand of the manufacturers of the
!loat. Those persons thought that the Bill would give
ti'em cheap beer, cheap bread, and higher wages ; but
when they were tell it would give them none of these,
they declared themselves at once adverse to the Bill.
Where, then, was the uneasiness in favour of Reform,
which they were told pervaded the whole country.—
( Hear.) The Noble Lord, when he commenced the changes
in his plan yesterday evening, ,mentioned two points which
he would further explain to the House on Monday ; but
he also alluded to a third, which he had not explained,
'so that something still remained behind.—(Bear.) The
Noble Lord, however, declared he would not persist in his
plans with respect to the disfranchiseMent of those who
enjoyed freedom by servitude —(Hear. )—Now, this he
(Sir E. Sugden) considered as another abandonment of
the principle of the Bill—(Hear)—a violation of all the
determinations said to have been taken with respect to the
nature of the elective franchise. How, he would ask,
was it possible for the House to go into a Committee on
the Bill until it possessed some further information on the
subject of this and the other alterations which the Noble
Lord intended to propose,(Flear.)—lle was satisfied
that the Government never intended to cut off the sixty-
two Members from the number of the House. It was
their object to keep them, as it were, in hank, and to
draw on them as they wanted representatives to give to
any discontented borough which they might find trouble-
some in its remonstrances. This was, he was confident,
the course that would he pursued. When they were re-
monstrated with on the injustice of their course, they
would probably say to a particular borough of Schedule
A. " Oh, don't distress yourself; if we cannot preserve
you untouched, we can put you in Schedule B. and so it
would go on disposing of the stock of Members, which
they kept on hand to gain votes for the Bill, and silence
opposition. As to the Government declaring in the face
of the country that they would stand by the Bill—
the whole Bill—and nothing but the Bill, he thought it
was too absurd for much observation. They had departed
from its principle by abandoning those details which-
' masked the . principle ; and he was satisfied, that
when these declarations went forth to the country
the people would be of the same opinion.—,(Hear.)
Mr. CAMPBELL said the principle of the Bill remained
untouched. Was the principle of the measure to reduce the
number of the House of Commons ? No ; it was to put
an end to the nomination of Members of the House,—to
put an end to rotten boroughs—to put an end to corrup-
tion—and that principle remained untouched by any new
explanations. According to the statements of the Noble
Paymaster, Schedules A. and B. remained entire, and if they
remained entire, the principle of the measure was not
affected.—(Hear, hear, hear.) With regard to what had
been said about birth and servitude, the Noble Pay.
master had not said that they were permanently to be
retained, but that there was ground for an exception in
case of those who had acquired a title to the freedom of
the several corporations to which they belonged, and in
virtue of which during their lives they Were
entitled to ashare in the elective franchise. With regard
to the popularity of the measure, although he might not
have had the experience of the Hon. Member fin:Preston, he
had yet visited varions counties in England, and according to
his experience, persons of all ranks, the high and the low,.
the rich and the poor, all exclaimed in favour of the Bill.
In the county of Stafford there was a meeting called by
a requisition, at the head of which were the names of ten
Peers, and which was attended not only by persons
of great opulence and distinction, but also of the lowest
orders, who hailed the prospect of having speedily restored
to them what they justly esteemed the birthright of every
Englishman—a voice in the representation of their country.
Mr. O'CONNELL said the Hon. Member for Wey-
mouth had laboured much to show that the principle of
the Reforin Bill had been very much infringed and
altered. The principle of the Bill was not as that
Hon. Member had endeavoured to show, to create a
separation between the landed and the manufacturing
interests, but of putting an end to the nomination to
boroughs, and to the entire system of odious traffic in
their purchase and sale. Now how was this to be carried
into effect, if not by ascertaining population? The Noble
Paymaster of the Forces bad proceeded upon the returns
of 1821. That was the only matter of detail, and the
only alteration now proposed was by reference to later
documents, to vary from that scale, when it was found
to be incorrect. The principle of the Bill was to get rid
of, not the distinction between the manufacturing and
landed interests, but of the notorious system of the menu-
factoring of Members of that House, and of Members to the
other House as well, of getting Peerages by means of re
turns to that House—of getting rid of expencea for elec-
tions out of the proceeds of preceding elections. There had
been men, and there were now men to be found, who had
trafficked for Peerages in this way, but that traffic would be
put an end to for ever by the operation of the Reform Bill.
It was on this account that there had been irritation in
some places on the subjeet, because the Bill went to de-
stroy for ever the trade in boroughs, and leave men to
their own resources for the attainment of station and dignity.
He regretted to hear what the Honourable Member
for Preston had said in the House last night, but
he could not believe that those of whom be spoke
were the genuine reformers of England.—(Cheers.) The
genuine reformers of England were all decidedly in favour
of this Bill. They knew, if the Bill passed, popular men of
popular principles, and with disinterested views, would be
likely to he returned to that House—men who would
ameliorate what wanted amelioration, but at the same time
preserve as most sacred the right of that House to
correct whatever it might observe to be necessary, not only
in that House, not only in other places, but in the House
of Lords, where it was necessary.
Lord VALLETORT could not be brought to believe
that the principle of the Bill would be advantageous to
the people of England. He had understood, from what
the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had stated, that
the sixty-two Members, the number which it was pro-
posed to reduce, were to be added to towns, and none to
he given to counties.
Mr. STANLEY said, what he meant to have stated
was that no Member should be given to those boroughs
that were originally intended to be disfranchised, and that
the Members would be given to large and respectable bodies
of constituents.

Mr. NORTH wished to know, as the Bill was to
undergo great modification, whether those modifications,
or similar modifications, were afterwards to be extended to
the Scotch and Irish Bills, for it was only calculated to
deceive the House to attempt to say that the principle of
all the Bills was not alike.

Mr. STANLEY said, that the modifications of the
English Bill did not at all affect its principle, and could
have nothing to do with the other Bills.
Mr. HUNT said that the Hon. Member for Weymouth
had quoted him as a good authority on the present occa-
sion ; it was only about a week ago that the same Ho-
nourable Member had told the House that he was no
authority at all, therefore he (Mr. II.) could not feel much
flattered by bile compliment.—(Laughter.) With regard
to what he had said last night, he was fully per-
suaded that he had then said nothing but what
was correct, and what he was prepared to substantiate.
He did not go into facts. An Hon. and Learned Member
opposite (Mr. Campbell) said he had been travelling
about in various parts of the country, and had collected
what he considered to be the correct feeling of the people,
and that that feeling was in favour of the measure, He
(Mr. H.) thought the information he had collected quite
03 muck to be depended upon. He had travelled through
Staffordshire, 'Warwickshire, and also Lancashire, on an
invitation to meet great bodies of his constituents, and
from them he had collected the information upon which
he had proceeded. He had this day received from
his constituents a confirmation of what he stated yester-
day—that they had held a meeting since he was there, at
which they had agreed to a petition, praying, as they had
prayed, for an extension of the suffrage—a suffrage to all,
such as they enjoyed themselves—and that was
universal suffrage in the extreme. He was sorry an
Honourable Member (Mr. O'Connell) skould have
felt hurt at what he had said.—(Hear, hear.)—
lie bad often felt hurt to hear him speak.—(Laughter.)
As to what had been said about bartering for seats
in that House, on his side of the House, he had
heard as much said about such conduct on the other
side of the House. When he was among his conetituente