The Sun.
London, England, 1822-05-14 00:00:00

sions ought to come down, he could only recognize one of those
attempts which were so common on the opposite side of the
House to excite the passions where it would be much better to
establish convictiona.—(Hear, hear, hear I)—The pensions and
salaries, it was well known to the House, had; with some ex-
ceptions, been generally reduced. Those who held office had
suffered from the depreciation of paper, and had not gained by
the reformation of the currency. He therefore called upon
the House not to be led away by the declamatory sophisms of
the Hon. Gentleman. He replied at some length to the remarks
of the Hon. Gentleman for Essex. To exclude coin from being
imported altogether was not the object of the present Bill, but
to regulate its admission into the market, and effectually
to guard against the country being inundated with foreign
corn for the time to come. This was accomplished by the duty,
of 17s. per quarter now to be imposed, which added to 10s.
at least for commercial profit, would always make it come
here when it could be imported with a burden of 275. on
it. He denied that faith was broken with the farmer, as
the Honourable Member for Essex had contended, by
altering the importation price from 80 to 70s. as the latter
price was, in the present state of the currency, a
.greater pro-
tection ian the former was at the time of its being granted.
He therefore considered that there was no ground for the
alarm which that Hon. Gentleman had felt. The present mo-
ment he conceived the fittest that could have been selected
for legislation on such a subject. He hoped enough had
been said to justify the bringing up of the report. -He
begged to express his thanks to the Honourable Member
for Midhurst, for tie moral and political lecture which he
had read to those on the other side of the House, who had
favoured a late motion. It must have been to him a painful
duty, but he bad pesformed it in a manner the most merito-
rious. The motion supported by arguments in favour of
remitting 20;000,0001, in taxes, involving national bankruptey,
which had been votedfor by thirty-seven Members, was most
injurious. The Speeds of the Hon. Member for Midhurst had
produced several explaiatdry statements from other Honourable
Members, and in the way had done good already. The time
at which that motion !ad been brought forward was such- that
the proposition was caculated to give a great blow to public
credit, and, the Hon. ilember for Midhurst had his best thanks
for the speech he had nade to correct the evil.
Mr. HUME, for oat, disclaimed having voted for the motion
which had been alluded to, on the principles supposed by the
Noble Marquis. H: was confident that the Hon. Member
for Midhurst had spoken on 'a misconception of what had taken
place. Ile had belayed that those who voted for the motion
alluded to had yowl for that which would break faith with the
.public creditor, ant produce in this country scenes like those
which marked the French Revoldtion. But he was convinced
that those who void for the remission of taxation were those
who took the best means of averting such a catastrophe. He
maintained, in oyposition to the Noble Marquis, that salaries
and pensions were now much higher than in 1792, and of this
he adduced several instances. The resolutions of his Honour-
able Friend the Ilember for Portarlington were those which
he should wish o see carried, and to those he thought the
House must hereafter come ; but those of the Noble Marquis,
he was of opiniot, would improve on the present law, and so
far they had his :u port. •
The Marquis tf LONDONDERRY and Mr. G. PHILLIPS ex-
plained.
Mr. Secretary PEEL was surprised that the Hon. Member
for Callington should have entered on the present evening into
a discussion on tie state of the currency, when he knew that
the Honourable Member for Essex had given notice of a mo-
tion which wouldbring that subject fairly before the considera-
tion of the House. As the Hon. Member had made several
pointed allusions to him '(Mr. Peel), he could nqt allow the pre-
sent opportunity to pass without making some observations upon
them. And here he must be permitted to express his surprise
at the applause with which a part of the Hon. M ember's speech
had been received by gentlemen on the other side. When
he heard the Bill which he had had the honour of introduc-
ing into Parliament in 1819 called an iniquitous measure, and
found that appellation of it cheered by many gentlemen, who
had at that time supported it—when he recollected that the
concluding resolution of Mr. Homer in 1810 contained the
principle on which that individual stated that the currency
ought to be conducted, 'and that that principle was, that within
two years the Bank should return to cash payments—when he
remembered that strong fact, and contrasted it with the cheers
which had burst from Hon. Members, when the Act of 1819
was stigmatized as an iniquitous Bill, he could not restrain the
indignation which he felt, or prevail upon himself to submit to
such an epithet in silence. He would here take the liberty of
asking, whether the principle on which that 'Bill was founded
did not receive the support of the other side in 1316 ? The House
must recollect well that it did receive the approbation of Hon.
Gentlemen opposite ; and that circumstance made their cheers
of this evening more extraordinary than they otherwise would
have been. If there-was any man whose conduct he was more sur-
prised at than another's, it was the Hon. Member for Coventry.
—(Hear!)—The Hon. Member had moved resolutions to amend
those which he (Mr. P.) had proposed to the House. His (31r.P.'s)
Resolution was a Resolution to compel the 'Bank to pay in
specie in May 1823. The Resolution proposed by the Hon.
Member for Coventry was a Resolution that the Bank should
pay in cash in May, 1822,—(Loud cheering from the Mini-
sterial Benches)—without any regard being paid at all to any
change in the standard. the 'Hon.' Member for Coventry
might perhaps say that lie had also moved some previous Re.
solutions. 'He admitted that this was true. The Hon. Mem-
ber had certainly made some proposals relative to the repay-
ment of certain issues to the Bank. But the Honourable
Member said, that on leaving the house upon that occasion,
he had whispered into the ear of the Hon. Member for Salis-
bury, that no return was to be made to cash payments, whilst
the price of gold was 51. 10s. What the Hon. Member whisper..
ed into the ear of the Hon. Member for Salisbury he could
not tell: 'he knew, however, what was the nature of the resolu-
tion the Hon. Member had recorded, and against his alleged
whisper he would place in opposition his recorded resolution.—
(Hear, hear !)—He would now return to the Hon. Member for
Callington, who had endeavoured to overwhelm him with his
wit and sarcasm. But as he was to share that sarcasm with his
/lon. Friend the Member for Portarlington, (if he might be
permitted, on account of the respect which he felt for that Gen-
tleman's great talents and high character, to use a term which
he certainly had no right to use from long intimacy with him),
he would only observe, that he was willing to share it, so long
as he shared it in such company.—(Cheers.)—The Hon. Mem-
ber for Callington had repeated certain observations of his upon
the fullness of the Exchequer, and had made his own com-
ments upon them. This made it necessary for him to repeat what
he actually had said. Ile had said, that if the currency had
indeed been raised Forty per cent. it was most extraordiner
ry, and at the same time most consolatory, to discover that
the taxes had increased in amount ; and that there was one
of two alternatives proved by it,—either that the resources of
the country were most flourishing, or that the depreciation had
not been so great as was generally stated. But if he had spoken
,of seeing with satisfaction the result which he had mentioned,
was it to be understood that he saw with satisfaction so much
money raised from the people ? No such thing: What he
meant to say was; that he had had great satisfaction in seeing
that sum raised without any recourse being had to processes of
law to extract it from those who were unwilling to pay it. His
reason for making the observation was to use it in refutation of
a witness who had been examined before the Agricultural
Committee, and who had stated that the consumption of all the
necessaries of life had for some time past been decreasing. The
following was his evidence :
" You have stated that in the necessaries of life you con-
ceive the consumption to have diminished one-third in Bir-
mingham; do you think that that diminution of consumption
is at all general ?—Not quite equivalent to that; but a general
diminution of the necessaries of life, I believe, exists through-
out theavhole kingdom, except in the markets of London.
" Do you not consider that there must be a great diminu-
tion of consumption generallrof the necessaries of life, though
not in the same proportion as in the immediate neighbourhood
of Birmingham to which your inquiry has extended ?—I have
no doubt there is a great diminution in the consumption of the
necessaries of life in the United Kingdom.
" Do you consider salt as a necessary of life P—Certainly.
" Do you consider soap as a necessary of life ?—Certainly.
" Do you consider malt as a necessary of life ?—Yes.
" Do you consider candles as a necessary of life ?—Yes.
" Do you consider sugar as a necessary of life ?—I do not :
but the poor people do.
" Do you consider tea as a necessary of life ?—Yes."
The name of this witness was Thomas Attwood, Esq.—(Hear,
hear !)—And, if he had spoken with satisfaction of the in-
crease of the revenue, it was because he had wanted to
show that no decrease had taken place in the consumption of
the necessaries of life.—(Hear !)—The Honourable Member
for Callington had then stated, that if he (Mr. Peel) would ex-
amine the records of his office, he would find that this great
diminution in the consumption of the necessaries of life arose
from distress, and that that distress had
.given birth to disturb-
ances in various parts of the manufacturing districts. Now, if
the Hon. Member was speaking of thg present, he (Mr. Peel)
must beg leave to say, that he found no disturbances at present
existing among them. The Hon. Member might, perhaps,
allude to the riots in Staffordshire and Monmouthshire—the
only counties in which the laws had been violated. ,
Mr. ST TWOOD here entered into some explanations across
the table, which were not distinctly audible in the gallery. Mr.
Peel instantly replied to them ; on which Mr. Attwood ex-
plained again. Mr. Peel again repjied ; but as we did not hear
the observations of the one Gentleman, we could not under-
stand what the answers of the other were.
Mr. PEEL then continued, and, in allusion to the dis-
turbances in Staffordshire and Monmouthshire, contended that
they did not arise out of any distress existing in those counties.
As a proof of it, he would only state one fact :—The master