The Sun.
London, England, 1813-06-24 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

•
Lord A. HAMILTON waved the Order of the
Day, for culling Thomas troggan to the liar to be discharged,
and congratulated the House on the abrogation of the prece-
that no person committed should be discharged but on
The' prisoner haring been brought to the Dar, the SPEAK e
after a suitable admonition 011 the enormity of his offence
against the freedom of election, and the laws and constitu-
tion of this realm, and informing hint, that in consideration
orthe length of his imprisminient the House had been in-
duced to consent to his discharge, ordered his discharge tic-
cordingly, upon PaPbent c`f,lll teed. Ctligga 44) n began. to,;
dress the Chair, at M. Speaker commanded the Chairman
to take hint away from the liar.
Mr. C. LoNo obtained leave to bring in a Bill
to facilitate the auditing and making up of the accounts of

the tizoyM3Stet-riellefli of 1111. Mai Vorre•t, for the 11itti
1,105411, whielt Would Compitte the.ekatuidation of tfi, ac-
counts in that department.
The Martinique Sigar finportntion 13111 went through
Cominittee—the Report to be ieceived to-inorrave. The Irish
National Debt 13111 also went through a Couunittee—fo be
reported to-morrow.
The Irish Distillery Billwas read a -second time and cdni»
witted for to-morrow, as were the Irl4l
was committed fu• the same dayv- and th Trinity Doctrine
11111, which was committed, and the Report ordered to be
considered on Monday.
Leave was given to, bring in a Pill to enable. the CoMmis-
sioners of Exoise to transfer the Licenses' of Publicans to
their suecessorS. •

All. WESTERN prCSent!!tl a Petition loin a me.
Trotter, aguiust the Court of Set.sion of SoAlattd, fot a de-
uial of justice. •
. .

Mr. ABERCROMBIE objected,to this Petition, as
it appeared to be so defective that no Advocate of the Scotch
Bar could he prevailed onto sign the i'etitio:f. '

WeiTERN said a few words, and the Peti-
tion was ordered to lie on the table.

THE SWEDISH. TREATY.

On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, the re'prAt of the Committee of Supply, in-
chiding the Grant, in consequence of the Swedish
Treaty, was taken into further consideration.
_ _

Mr. BANKEs said, he had tea intention of disa-
reeing from the resolution, but 'was desirous of
offering a few observations in order to state his
opinion to tae•liouse upon the subject. He re-
ferred to the inquiry of 1796, in which the House
with regard to the advances made to Austria, had
recorded their sentiments, that such giant should
not be considered as a precedent, and was pro-
ceeding, when
The SPEAKER directed the 'attention of the
House teia more urgent .bosines-s. A conference
with the Lords-bad been previously requested, for
the purpose ofeoinumnieating to their LorNhips the
13th Resolution on the East India question, and
the return of the persons appointed to require this
conference rendered it necessary to interrupt the
lion. Gentleman.

` The formula of this conference, and of ano-
ther relative to an amendment iii the Militia Bill,
having been arranged, and the business con-
chided,
Mr. BaSaul resumed. He thought the• ad-
' vances to Sweden in the present instance did nut
possess the same plea of necessity as the advances
to Austria in 1796. He could .see no necessity fot
cones. tiling them, and censured the grunt of pub-
lic money, while.ParliaMent was sitting, without
a communication being made to them. No .reason
for the secresy that had been observed appeared
to him to exist. The House was kept in the dark
longer than was requisite, which, in his opinion
was not defensible. In the general view which he
took of this '!'rutty, it met with his disapproba-
tion, because he thought it gave up and paid the
most of aity Treaty in his recollection, for which
So little was to be received—for what did we gain
by it ?s. The sum and substance was that Of giving
priority to a direct continentql expedition, instead
of the conquest of Norway being first accomplish-
ed. He complained of the Treaty being ambigu
ously worded, and of thagreat want of explicit-
ness which ran through it. As examples of this,
he instanced the undefined nature.Of the provision
for the direct operation of Sweden on the Conti-
nent. He also insisted upon the topic of our be-
. ing obliged to perform our quota of the stipula-
tions, though the other party might not in jnstice
be -called on to do any thing. His conviction
was, that from this uncertainty we should be cosh.
Pellet! to fulfil our share of the bargain abiolutely
for nothing ; that' we should give ft 11111D011 of
money and a fine island,. and actually receive no
benefit; In this view, he would ask the Noble
Lord (Castlereagh) if Sweden in this arrangement
did not depend on being joined by thirty or thirty=
five thousand Russians, and had not entered into
engagements accordingly ? If this were the case,
thee the engagements of both Britain and Sweden
might, though they pursued the most perfect good
faith, .be violated by the inability of the third
[tower to perform its part of the obligation, and
iH this event he believed En "'Land would have tO
fulfil its S3CrifiCeS without reaping the corre-
sponding-benefit. lle wished to know whether the
subsidy was to be paid to Sweden during the con-
tinuance of the armistice, and if this armistice
ended in a Continental peace, what steps were to he
taken to provide a reciprocity of interests ? He
put a variety of hypotheses on the probable state
Of affairs which might result from the present si-
tuation of the Continental Powers, and inquired
what provision had been made to meet them. He
contended, that there was reason to believe that
Sweden put a different construction on the Treaty
front what the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) did, as
front a proclamation which he read, it seemed that
that Noble Person considered England as the gua-
rantee of the conquest of Norway, which the No-
ble Lard disclaimed. With regard to the subsidy,
he thought it improvidently entered into andin-
sufficiently guarded. He had ever been hostile to
the policy of Continental subsidies, He also ex-
pressed himself hostile to the cession of Gitaada-
lc He wished to !same whether Ministers con- '
ceived that the:landing thirty thousand Swedish
troops at Stralsund was a sufficient compliance
with the Treaty, on the part of Sweden, to oblige
us to fulfil the stipulations of the Treaty, by pay-
ing the subsidy, and ceding Guadeloupe. If they
did, the probability was, that the whole of the
money paid to Sweden would he thrown away, and
Guadaloupe ceded to no purpose. Sweden wis to
be paid for her exertions on the Continent, while
the other stipulations of the Treaty would make
it her interest to spare her troops in that quaiter,
for the purpose of keeping her resources in reserve
in the attack of that part of Denmark the possess
Sion of which was guaranteed to lei by the treaty.
The Honourable Gentleman
,concluded by, say-
ing, that it was not his intention to oppose the re-
solution.

Lord CASTLEREAGIT observed, that the HOD.
Member had travelled at large into the: tlitlertnt
subjects connected with the Swedish Treaty, but
as he (Lord C.) had on. a, former occasion deli-
vered his sentiments at great, length on these
matters, he hoped that the -Hon. Member would
not attribute it to any want of respect toward
him, if, in his reply, he should confine himself to
a few of the points on which the Hon. Cientlo-
- had *lore particularly insisted. As to what
the Hon. Gentleman hail said about the House
not .having been informed of the advances made
to Sweden, he conceived it would not have' be-
come hini nor any of his Majesty's Ministers to

sitar tidviaed his Royal Higlints§ the tii'flied neA'
gent to send a Messenger JO itltdeut fh
that be had made certain advances of Motley' tti
Sweden j for by 60 didugi the lioose Would bard
• been placed in a sitoiltion of cal:N-11d eiiibui.hr,”-
as thy respOnsili]lity of the whole transad-
tion, instead of resting upon Ministers, wou:d .14 i
such a proceeding, have 'beet) completely trans
ferrets from them. lieferring tti the general 'ob.=
serrations upon the Treaty-which ,the Hon. Oen-
tiornith had made, he thoubt.thet w.as not
stating the proposition too broadly, When he said
that if all the 11 cabers of that House enter-1
tamed the same opinions with :the Honourable
Gentleman, no such thing as a Treaty ut Sub,
slily world ever, under any Circumstances.; be
made ; for the whole scope of the arguments of
the .Honourable Gentleman was; that all the
burden of
.contingencics-should be thrown upon
the other parts' for the porpos'e of reher pig our,
selves. The fact was, that Sweden had no other
interest in view by landing her troops on the Con-
tinent, titan the interest of the confederatino, and
the Treaty never had been framed wider any such
impression ;13 that Sweden waved any private io-
terest, foi' the 'purpose of employing her troops
against the common enemy. He had no hesita-
tion in saying, that the. liononrable Gentleman
misconceived the nature of the whole TreatV,
Ile (Mr. 13anlies) had conceived that the landing
of the Swedish troops at Stralsund was a sufficient
compliance with the stipulations of the Treaty to
entitle Sweden to demand the fulfilment of every
other article of the Treaty on our part ; but if the.
Hon. Gentleman had read the Treaty, for the
. purpose of understanding it, and not of finding
fault, he would have formed a -very different opi-
nion. it wits the landing of our army, with a
view to operations against the common enemy
that was to entitle Sweden to claim the fulfilment
of the other stipulations of the Treaty ; and it
was
,for Ministers to judge when Sweden shall
have fultilled,her engagements in this respect. Of
Course, Ministers would be responsible to the
House for their proceedings ; but, in the mead
time, he could not anticipate this responsibility,
by answering all the queries of, the Hon. Gentle,
mail. As the Hon. Gentleman bad alluded to the
events which had recently teLenplace on the Con,.
fluent, he had to state that the person at the head
of the Swedish army was perfectly satisfied with
the arrangements of the Allies. As on R former
occasion he had said, that there was reason to
believe that the force ot. the Swedish army was
nearly equal to that whieh SWeden was bound to
furnish by the .articles of the treaty, it was.his
daty-to state officially, that the amount of the
Swedish force Was greater than was specified in
the Treaty, 'exclusive of the Pomeranian
.corps,
and elsoot the reinforcement whieb was daily ex-
pected' from .Sweden. He declined saying any
thing in his place in Parliament on the subject
of the cession of Guadeloupe. It' Parliansent did
place at the disposal of Ministers such supply as
Might be necessary for the fulfilment of the Tretaq,
his Majesty's Ministers were of course answer%
able for the way in which it might be applied. In
his own opinion the Treaty was' framed at a time
of the roost critical importance,' and he thought
that it wits calculated to incorporate the interest's
of the ton trotting Powers.
Mr..l3Aimus and Lord CASITETtEACiIt mutually
explained. ,
The question being then put, the Resolutiot
was agreed,to.
A Message from the Lords requested the House
to permit Mr. Rose and Mr. C. Long to be exa-
mined before the Committee appointed by their
Lordships to inquire into the nature of the con-
tract between the late Mr. Pitt and Mr. Palmer,
which was complied with.
ORANGE CLUBS.

Mr. PRI:EMANTLE gave notice, in the name of
an I-lo►►o►.uable Member", of a motion to-morrow,
on the subject of the existence of certain illegal
societies, nailer the name of Orange Clubs.

'Mr. Hon Nett wished to' know —%vbether it was
the `intention of Ministers to submit to the House
-any proposition on the subject of increasing the
salary of. Judges who had retired from public ser-
vice ? He meant that it should 'be 'increased in
,the same proportion as the salaries of Judges ctn.-
ployed ill public service. This proposition, how-
ever, had been lost by the late increase of the
salaries of Judges in emplityment.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
that it Was the intention of Government to take
the matter into consideration, but he. could not
specify. the time when it would be done.
Mr. Low brought in a Bill for facilitating the
auditing andimaking up the accounts in the Pay-
master general's Office. Read a first time,-and
ordered to be read again to-morrow.

The House then resolved itself iota a
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY,

to which the Ordnance EStittleCS, Army Extra-
ordinaries, and 'Miscellaneous Estimates were or-
dered to he referred.• The Committee also re-
ceived instructions to consider the allowance to be
made, to the COMlllisSiOnerS of Fees in Ireland.

Mr. WARD, in rising to move for a sum to de-
fray the Ordnance expenses, congratulated the
Committee on the diminution in the amount of
the estimate, which was less than that of last
year by no less a sum than 150;000/. lie stated
that in the present estimate 330,000/. was for the
new expenses. it was proposed that the sum of
90,000/, should be expended in, the purchase of
lands, in the vicinity of Portsmouth. Con
Me sums had been expended on the erection ,of
fortifications for thse defence of Portsammth t b"
the benefit of a great deal of what- had been. tion.o
was lost by Parliament having in its wi,:ltitott,l,ll%-:
fu4ed to grant money for thc P7.717.° .(,)!
of ground on which of late hon.ie, a., pecu C 4
k
;:y1: for
etc7l.l:rpi. Mort,
tirvi:llls.al oepeft;:t ehe
proposed
uI forttilnt :tettiul
ell:
st: u%tt;:iiis
;:;41::!:.:tittefit3;12Eti2t2:112's.
~ rind
ase,
necessary to have a fort built on a certain spot,
twhlatitelniowe:on,.eilltillyctemottrtilical trul the
eni i
a in ofiinietshe l
ntehse
they town, so
until
could obtain possession of that fort. It was a
great mistake to suppose that the money, to be
expended in the purchase of those lauds would
.1)e
thrown away ; for ou a survey being made by

Mr. Wyatt, lie. reported the ground to be worth
the money which it was proposed to give, as by
being let it woidd prOduce•a rent which would he
proportioned to, the cost. He thought it nutie-
cessPry to enter into the particulars of any of the
other items in the Estimate, and finished by rums',
ing, "that the siuriK 749,9991. should be granted
for the purpose of defraying the expeuces of Ord-
nance Departmeqt.-
Mr. CALCRAFfif, adverting to what the Hon.
Gentleman had said Omit lands to be purchased
at Cortsmonth, observed, that. the Hod. Gentle-
man was wrong in representing PortS'irionth as a
fortress of a superior order, as it was only meant
to be such as to be inaccessible to a c0up...4-main.
On the whole, lie approved of the Lailnatfs which
he thought was as reasonable as pgssible.; and be
thought that the Hon. Gentleman might havetaken
credit to himself, and to the Board, for the small-.
ness of the toiprovided estimates, as the amottnt
Of them was less than he ever remembered it to
be on nay former occasion.
Mr. FREEMANTLE objected to the sum for the
purchase of lands at Portsmouth ; .he was not satis-
fied 'with the reasons which had been •aisigned for
that purchase, and therefore his vote would be
against it. He also objected to the sums men-
tioned in the estimate for that purchase of hinds at
Woolwich, Waltham Abbey, and the manufactory
of small arms. He wished to know why .it was
necessary to have a new charge of 50,0001. for
nine powder-magazines on the Medway ? Ile
also wished to know whether the charge of 18,0001.
for towers and batteries on the.coast was to be
continual, or when it was likely to end ?
Mr. JOHN SMITH objected to the magnitude of
the sums at which the Ordnance Expellees in
, the conquered West India Islands were estimated.
Mr. POLE CAREW thought that economy in some
of the items was carried too tar.
Mr. BAnt.xo said a few words in 'objection to
some parts of the Estimate.
Mr. Husussost thought that the stints expend-
ed on 'the fortifications at Portsmouth; were use-
less or nearly so. Without objecting to granting
the sum specified in the, Estimate for the purchase
of land, he thought that sums should never. be
granted for such purposes, without the House
having before it plans of the object in view by the
purchase, and whether it was likely to lead to any
additional expenditure. He approved of the Es-
timate in general, and thought that the smallness
of the amount reflected credit on all concerned in it.
Mr. WARD replied. He said that the rule of
the Master-General of the Board of Ordnance
was, never to commence a work without 'know-
ing what was the benefit to he expected front it,
and what the total amount of the expenditure was
to be. ; but it was not to be expected in those
works which.had been begun on a different prin-
ciple, that they should go back and make arrauge.,
ments. for the application of that rule. The 'ex-
pence of fitting up a magazine ship was at least
306.01. With respect to Trinidad, it was neces.
.t)iry that the arsenal there. should' be removed to
a place of safety. The Woolwich wharf was a
source of considel able saving, as it, prevented the
necessity of employing lighters. The vertical saw
alluded to, cost, it was trite, 12,0001. but then it
produced saving of at least 4QOI. per cent.
Mr. FI44EMANTLE explained.
After a few remarks limn Colonel WOOD, the
vestion was.. put upon the different items, and
agree 4 to.