The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-06 00:00:00

chi. nomination boi magi's. It was said that per Sous repre-
senting these boroughs were dependent on those who no-
minated them. The answer to that was given by the
Right Hon. Member for knareshorough, who, in painting
his condition, had described that of other Borough 'Mem-
tiers. The Hon. Member for Kircudbright had talked of
persons being dependent for their vote on others under the
operation of the present system. Why he knew of no
condition of civilised society in which !nen were not de-
pendent on each other. There teas not one of the objec-
tions which he had to the present that he did not state to
the last Parliament; and now, after calmly and delibe-
rately reconsidering those objections, he only found his
persuasions upon the subject more and more confirmed.
If there were any one thing more than another established'
by the experience which history afforded, it. swat this—
that to yield to popular clainonr was one of the grossest
et roes which those in poseession of political power could
possibly commit. There was little to he apprehended from
popular elanaotr at any time, or almost under any circum-
stances, in this country. Front an early periral of
life he had always held it to be an its-ra',Mtable
truth, that of all the people upon 'aaalit, the English
were the most difficult to he: i2al into any offence against
the laws ; and though great pains had been t iken
at different times for the purrse of exciting a.ppre-
Iteredetea in the event of the present Bill being raejee:;ted,
vet most advisedly he undertook to say; that iis not pass-
ing that House would never peoelnee. The slightest degree
of violence out of dunes t 'tar 'the English, above all man-
kind, submitted the most patiently to the dominion of the
law. In the. -earlier periods of our history, the boroughs
which were to be disfranchised under the present Bilk heal
been represented by the sons of Noblemen, or by be ntlernen
resident within them or in their in:met:ate vicinity ; but
that was at a time long Isacote cur domestic trade, our
commerce with the other nations of the world, or our
colonial relations had attained to any thing like the height
or importance which belonged to them during the last and
present centuries. By degrees strangers came to those bit,
rouahs ; and at length they almost ceased to have stny l'e-
presentatives excepting men, who, when extending the
fame and property of their native l ts 4 in the remotest
quarters of the world, net>tte tetiSed to cherish an attach-
ment to her institution!) acrd an admiration of the princi-
ples of justice r.. 4 aarional freedom upon n hich they were
founded L anti r Lo, coming home to enjoy the rewards of
tleeir long and laborious efforts, desired to take a part it
the government and councils of the country, front which
they, had been so long separated, but from which their af-
fections had never been estranged. Those were the class
of men who supplied the places of those who had previ-
ously filled all the boroughs in the kingdom, and by the
Reform Bill all persons of that stamp would in future be
excluded from the representation of the interests to
which they belonged, and from any chart In the
councils of their country. As matters stood under
the system by which the teUntry rose to its pre-
sent p'teli of wealth end greatness, not only were the
people represented in that House, but the interests of
the cotttstry were represented ; but haw would those in-
terents now stand ? He would leave to the other Hon.
Members to plead the causes of the C,nadas, of the West
Indies, of our possessions in New South Wales and in
Africa ; and he would strictly limit himself to the East
Indies. He had mentioned 0n,.. peculiakity of Englishmen,
Ie should now advert to another ; it wa., that wherever
they went, they invariably entertained a strong predilection
for what was callest the British Constitution. Now,
really, he was unable to comprehend the policy which
went to destroy that feeling ; he thought, on the contrary,
that the great aim of legislation should he, to uphold that
feeling, and encourage its being cherished in the breasts of
'hose who were exiled from their native land. As re-
spected India, it was of the highest importance that Par-
liament +should legislate upon sound principles. It was
emtally a matter of certainty, that no man possessed useful
information, unless he happened to enjoy the advantages of
local and practical experience ; but if there were an end
to the nomination boroughs, there would-, at the same
time, he an end to the introduction of Members into that
House possessed of the requisite knowledge for treating
subjects connected with our empire in the East. If the
Bill were carried, which he hoped it would not be, he
trusted that something would be done towards catablish-
ing for the colonies something like a constituency, and
so affording them the means of malting themselves heard
in that House. He wee not so unreasonable as to con-
tend that a constituency could be formed out of the native
inhabitants of Countries which we had conquered ; wither
(lid he suppose that a good constituency cool(' ha formed
tout of the British residents in those places ; but he thought
that a constituency advantageous to the best interests of the
mother country might be formed out of the men who had
large stakes in those colonies. Having made these few
remarks upon what appeared to him a matter of the very
highest importance, he would next advert to . subject of
less magnitude, but of which on trift,ing use had been made,
and was likely to he made, in the course of the debates
upon the Reform : he alluded to the measures which
• 114(1 been resorted to for the purpose of effecting the adop-
tion of the Bill.—(Hoar, hear.) The oratory es...seated to
upon the present occasion—he meant with rference to the
menaces—reminded him of the first piece of oratory he had
ever heard in his life, the conclusion of which was certainly
the most effi.!cti,:e conclusion he had ever listened to. Ile
was on board an Indiaman that returmd from a long
voyage; the First Lieutenant of a man-of-war came oh
board, and being a person of very small stature, he found
it necessary, in order to snake himself seen, to use the cap-
stan as his rostrum. Ile addressed the sailors—he en-
larged upon the vast advantages presented to those who
entered into his Majesty's service...An expressed his full
conviction that the persons ht Was then addressing came
the entire length of their long voyage for the express pur-
pose of entering Into that glorious service ; " sod now,"
said he, " presuming that every one of you sill be delighted
with so early an opportunity of gratifying your wishes, give
three cheers for the King ; and any man who does not, I
will have him tied neck and heels and thrown into that
boat.".--(A laugh.) That certainly was the most effec-
tive piece of oratory he had ever heard ; but ht deprecated
the application of such oratory to the business of that House.
Sir F. VINCENT began by observing that the op.
posers of the Bill were only the delegates of those who
sent thtet there ; but it was to be remembered, that if
there were delegates of the people in that Hoitse, there
were also delegates of certain Noble Petra, and to those
Noble Peers, or other nominator.; to boroughs, pledges hail
been given which net one of their nominees would ever
think of violating; and surely if the owners, as they were
eaFe(l) of those boroughs had a right to obtain and exact
the redemption of such pledges, had not the people to
equal right to demand pledges? Suppose a oantlidate ap-
peared at the hustings and profcssed himself a moderate
Reformer, might net an elector get up and sty, will you
support or will you not, the plan of moderate Reform,
which his Majesty's Government has proposed to Parlia-
ment ?—(Hear and a laugh from the Opposition.) Yes,
notwithstanding these cheers and laughter, he tvotlll re-
peat that it was a plan of moderate Reform—fully as mo-
derate as the people would be satisfied with.—(Hear.)
Under circumstances such as he had described, pledges of
the nature he had stated might he demanded from can-
didates, but those pledges would merely bind the individual
giving them to the support of the principle of the measure,
not to every minute and insignificant detail. The
Bill that was then before the House was in prin-
ciple the same as that of last session, it went to destroy
nomination boroughs—it gave representatives to large
towns not hitherto represented—it gave additional re-
presentatives to large counties--and it extended the
elective franchise to men whose respectability afforded a
sufficient guarantee that the, franchise would be properly
exercised. Those were the great principles of the Bill,
and to the support of those would the friends of the Bill
be pledged. The people had during the last fifteen years
made a progress in intelligence and education, and know-
ledge of their own rights, and skill in as•erting, as the
result of the last election most distinctly proved ; and
now that he had touched upon the subject of those elec-
tions, he would say that they had been conducted in a
manner highly creditable to the intellectual character
and good feeling of the people of England. He could
not but repel with indignation the accusation that the late
elections were the result of popular commotions, and be
would repel, with equal indignation, the charge that the
people expected that the passing of the Reform Bill would
lead to reducing the prices of the necessaries of life. No,
they had no such expectation; hut they did expect that
the Reform Bill would lay the foundation of a series of
measures which would afford them substantial relief.

Colonel TRENCH began by adverting to the address of
the freeholders of Surrey, published by %Ir. Drummond,
and to the use made of it by a Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir
James Mackintosh) at the other side of the House on the
Preceding evening. The Gallant Officer complained that
the Right Hon. Gentleman bad not made enough of the
address in question, to do justice to the sentiments of its
iirthor, contending, that if lie had continued his quotation
somewhat further, it would have made much less in fa-
vour than. against his argument. For his part he fully
greed with the writer of that address, and felt it his duty
to caution the House and the country to be on their guard
tgainst a Government which could impute to inadvertence
an alteration, of the effect and tendency of which they had
been apprised by the gentleman who drew up the Bill.
In his opinion the Noble Lord had altered the Bill much
or the worse, when compared with those Parliamentary
iteforni measures which had formerly betas introduced into!

that House utie!er the same auspieea. While the present
Bill had been in agitation infinite pains bad been taken to
influence the bad passions of the people ; he would confess
%'
601 epue tev o%Ur 'l7l tboe airnr itvbe;
that if the fatal day of outraagliedanidia
lie should look to theM,
House of isotds, because it was bete r able to cantroul with
itidgrnent those measures which might he forced on the
House of Commons either by violence from without, or by
eloquence and passion from within ; and he therefore
trusted, that should so undesired an event arise, the elder
Aristocracy of the other House, and the younger Aristo-
cracy of that, would be found tohave the hearts of tog_
~islimen, and to be reads' tn withstand those violent at-
tempts which, if Snecessful, must inevitably cause the
ruin Of the more valuable part of the Constitution.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH rose to explain. He did
net see why blame was to be attributed to him for not
having quoted the whole of Mr. Henry Drummond's ad-
dress ; and the chaste L'iOught against bins on this account
by. the Ge‘ila'ut Colonel, put him in mind of an aneciote
o M;. Canning, who chancing to meet him (Sir J. Mack- ,
intosh) in the lobby the day after a gentleman in his •
speech had introduced a very long siS'astatiou from Virgil,
asked l im, " When does Ana. friend intend to give us the
rest of the st'taiitl i"—(A laugh) Now that he was on
hts `sews he would take the opportunity of expressing his
reget that a Morning Journal of great influence and con-
siderable circulation hail represented the conclusion of his ,
speech of the previous night exactly es,r-t.ra'-Y t t the
meaning it had been intended to VoliVeY. That Journal
had made him s!.os'a ti speech with giving the opinion
that pontie,.l privilege was property. He would appeal to
who had heard him, whether the whole gist of his argu-
ment throughout his speech, as well as the last sentence
of it, was not intended to express that he held the very
contrary opinion.—( Hear).
Mr. G. VERNON (as we understood) said that great
stress had been laid by the Anti lieformers on what had
taken place at tte. late elections, for the purpose of allowing
that the people had been misled into giving their support
to those who professed their readiness to support the Go-
verninent in the present measure that had so entirely at.
tracted the attention of the country ; and in particular a
great deal of taunting had been thrown out about the cry
that had been raised of " the Bill, the whole Bill, and
nothing but the Bill." Now he was ready to acknowledge
that he himself hail assisted in teaching that phrase to the
people—(Cheers)—and he had done this in older to en-
deavour, as much as possible, to prevent the country from
mistaking pretended ft iends for real friends of the mea-
sure; and for the purpose of showing that the adoption
of that, or some similar phrazie, was of great service, he
might just mention the word " Reformer" was, in large
letters, applied to his anti•reforming predecessor, from
which the necessity of having some test to assure the
people of the intentions of the candidates was made evi-
dent. But though he had taught the people that phrase,
lie did not mean to teach them that they were to cavil
about pet,y• details in considering the claims of the candi-
dates that presented themselves, fir he well knew that if
that was attempted they never would be able to arrive at
any satisfactory result. It was their general adoption of
this phrase that was the reason of the phenomenon which
the Hon. Member for Aldborough had not been able to
solve. The Hon. Gentleman had stated that such a feeling was
never known to have existed before. And why ? Because
never before had there been presented a practical measure
to which the people could give their hearty support, and
by which they could find it worth their while to stand.
Pe; for one, was ready to admit that moderate Reform
would not have satisfied him. When the genius of Re-
form should appear before him, lie would not crouch to it
with dismay or dread—he would not be content with
inertly sacrificing to it a hecatomb of venal boroughs—he
would not grudge it those offerings which were necessary
for its establishment upon a sure and permanent foundation:
on the contrary, instead of attempting to appease it, as the
Motto() Pagans did their idol gods, he would be prepared
to hail its approach as the approach of an era of good. He
would tender to it all that savoured of nomination, as a
reasonable homage and a dutiful expiation—be would
glory in those very effects which its appearance peomised;
and which bad so deeply excited the auger of the Anti-Re-
formers, though they also offered their little modicum of
incense, and trembled as they offered it. The Right Hon.
Member for Tamworth (Sir R. Peel) had taken an op-
portunity to deprecate the introduction of all party feeling;
and to express a hope that this, tabtorhing subject would be
discussed with that ebolness and deliberation which the
great intetevs which it involved so fairly demanded at the
hands of the Legislature. If by party feeling the Right
lion. Baronet meant the acrimony of party feeling, no
one would more cordially join in the furtherance of
that sentiment than himself; at the Same time bear-
ing testimony that from no one could it have come with a
better grace than from the Right Hon. Baronet, who
was ever most careful to avoid any thing like an approach
to such an exhibition on his part.—(Hear, hear.) But
he thought that in addition to this abstinenee front party
feeling, it was still mots, neteaSary that gentlemen should
make a et-:::halo with themselves to abandon all the pre-
judices to which they had formerly submitted their minds.
There were two hinds of pr•ejudices—the one an adhe-
rence to old-established feelings, which by long !mint had
become, as it were, a portion of our nature; and the ether
a too great readiness to snatch at speculative theories, in
the expectation that they would lead to those result)
which a sanguineness of disposition had deplete 1 as de-
sirable. There was another feeling against which lion.
Gentleman would also do well to guard themselves, and
that was the working of self-interest. He knew that it
was easy to gloss this over, with the idea that for the re-
presentatives of close boroughs to vote for their easitinetion
was tantamount to the cemmittal of a Sort of suicide, or
perhaps patritide would be a still better term, in addition
to which a favourite argument with the Anti-Reformers
IV as, that every thing in the Constitution of the country
was so sacred, that it could not by any means admit of a
change. In his opinion, however, the gentlemen who
taok this view ef the subject) took a narrow view of it.
The Constitution of the country was a practical thing,
instituted for the good government of that country, ant!
therefore it would always be wise to call in aid of it
the lights that experience might be able to afford. One
of the reasons why political economy bad fallsti so Much
into dierepnte l;ecanse it attempted to lay down a
theory for the government of certain matters, without pay-
ing sufficient attention, having sufficient regard to the
facts that were in existence. But if this was objectionable
in political economy, how touch more so would it be in le-
gislature. The present plan, however, Was not open to
this objection c it vas One unlit uponpractical experience,
and taping their stand on the ground of a free Press, he
thought that they might gist without dismay at the alarm
that had been raised of violence on the part of the many
on the one hand, or on the other of tyranny' op the part
of the few. In his opinion they ought not to admit into
this Reform T3ill anything that had not been already tried,
and by adopting this course, they would have the advan-
tage of having experience for their guide in all that they
did. In saying this, he did not intend to intimate that he
was pinning his faith upon what took place in the time of
the Plantagenets and the Tudors ; but his desire was, that
if possible every improvement &Fmk! at once be adopted,
so as to tender the Measure, as far as practicable, a
complete measure, awl not leave it open to any subse-
quent alteration.—(Hear, hear.) A great deal of re-
ference had been made to the feeling which had returned
the present Parliament, and it had been said that the ma-
jority which now existed in &vent. or the Bill, had
been pinduted hy Making the minds of the people fe-
verish, which in its turn had been produced by the Go-
vernment for party purposes : but the gentlemen who
made use of this argument might as well suppose that
lightning was produced by those philosophere who
constructed and diluted eenductors to diatrin it of
its dang-er,(Hear, hear.) The only desire of Govern-
ment was, to avert the peril that on coming into office
they had already found to exist : the Government did not
claim this as their thunder. On the contrary, it might
be attributed to that first great cause, who " rode in the
whirlwind; and directed the storm," for it was he who had
inspired his creatures with the spirit of liberty, and had
given them free will wherewith to execute it. Another
argument made use of by the opponents to this measure
was, to refer to the victories and prosperity and power of
the country as it had existed under the representative aye-
tens, which it Wes the object of the present Bill to de-
molish ; but it should he remembered, that while our an-
nuals were full of victories, they were full also of reverses,
that while they told of our grandeur they told also of our
losses ; and that while the Gazettes contained an account
of our triumph, they contained also a list of the bank-
ruptcies which had followed upon those triumphs. But
the grand mistake was, to suppose that the principle of
the Bill was disfranchisement. Its principle was not dis-
franchisement, but enfranchisement; for the great object
that it purported to affect was, the association of a larger
body of the people with the Government, and by that
means to improve their patriotism, and identify their feel-
ings with the Legislature. The excitement that the agita-
tion of this measure had produced among the people
he looked upon as a good instead of an evil: and
even if the Government were mistaken in the advan-
tages that were expected to accrue from the Bill, he
its
should say that having been brought forward would
be a benefit (unless it contained things absolutely pre-
judicial), inasmuch as it would have taught the people
to look forward to a change from that system which had
subjected them to so many grievances, The Gallant Ge-

oeral (Sir J. Alalcolm) had complained that under the
proposed alterations the colonies would not be represented ;
but he begged to obsetee, that they were sent there to go-
vern the colonies, and not to be governed by them. With
respect to the Gallant General himself, every Member
'oust feel obliged and henefitted by the perusal of the ela-
erate works which that Hon. Gentleman had written
upon India, and which he would venture to say would
rive more information to the House than five Members
sent from that country could ; and, therefore, with such
sources of information at tt:eir command, he did not see
why it should be expected that gentlemen coming from
those distant parts should have the priVilege of stepping
into the Hearse through the Medium of a cheque on their
hankers. But another class of persons who, according to
the Gallant General's view, would be excluded by this
change in the representation of the country, were officers
who had spent the early part of their lives in the service
of the country : on this point, however, he begged to re-
mind the Gallant Generl that Sir S anuel Hood, Sir
Alan Gerdner, and Lord Cochrane, all of whom came
within the description of the Hon. Gentleman, had found
seats in that House through the representation of places
much more populous than many that were about to receive
their enfranchisement through the medium of this
(Hear. ) The real question, however, alter alit carne to tllie
—whether it was releisaVes that the system tif nomination
which nosy existed should be still allowed to exist ? If it
were thought that such a system was wise, he certainly
was of opinion that it would be much better to adopt a
direct theory on that subject, rather than to allow the
thing to take place in the dark, without knowing how far
it might extend, or what might be its absolute re ults.
To what purpose was the solemn mockery of an election,
with its writs, and returning officere, and hustings, and
candidates, if a little inconvenience, a little expense, a little
of the wi dam of our ancestors, in ;the shape of drunken
brawls and tipsy fights, were the sole flowers that were to
he gathered from that decayed field of bribery and corrup-
tion? It was said, indeed, that the system of nomination
tended to time advance and encouragement of raising talent;
but, in his opinion, an extended franchise, where success
depended on the display of ability and the soundness of
character, was much better calculated to produce emula-
tion, and to elicit the genius of the country.—((tear, hear.)
'The next point for their consideration was the extension
of the suffrage as proposed by the new Bill, and on this
bead much cavilling had arisen as to the anomalies to
which this extension gave rise. But it was remarkable
how suddenly sensitive the feelings of the Anti-Reformers
had become upon this topic. In the system that at pre
sent existed, they had never been able to di-cover any of
these anomalies ; and yet there were some who had the
hardihood to assert that the anomalies of the present system
were much more numerous and much more glaring than
those contained in the new system according to the Reform
Bill. With respect to the ex pence of elections, he could as-
sure the House that an alteration in that respect was not pro-
posed from any selfish feeling on the part of the Members of
the Government, but because they felt that the Reform
Bill would accomplish no Reform without that accotnpani-
ment ; and that to leave the expellee as it now was, would
virtually be to put the returns in the hands of the rich,
and not in the hands of the people.—(Hear, (rear.) The
word " Revolution" bad been used again and again, to
scare the timid from their purpose ; but he would tell
gentlemen, that though they ought to fear their own pre-
judices, they n ed not fear the people whom they would
enlighten by this measure, for the result would be the
conciliation of the people, whom they would identify with
their interests as soon as they had associated them with
their power. At the Reformation they had left their
civil liberty at the mercy of the Sovereign, for the sake
of their spiritual freedom; at the Restoration they left
their liberty for the sake of their loyalty ; at the Revolu-
tion they left their loyalty for the sake of their liberty ;
but now, at the present juncture, they were fortunately in
a situation to be able to consider both their loyalty anti
their liberty.—(Cheers.) Allusion in the course of the
debates on the Bill last Session had been made to Burke's
day-state He (Mr. Vernon) would be content to see that
star set—he would be content to see its lustre diminished,
and its splendour fall away; and he said so because he
felt that it could only be extinguished by the superior light
of that day of ta hich it was the harbinger—of that sun
which was now commencing to dawn upon them in token
of its future glory, and which would bring the diffusion
of light and the equality of liberty with healing in its
wings; even now that long-expected luminary was rising
out of the deeps of moral right—even now it was reple-
nishing itself from its original sources of existence with
fresh energy and renovated life; and never would it set
n those itamo regarded it with reasonable and reveren-
tial homage—on those who were prepared to walk in the
paths of liberty, cheered by its lustre and guided by its
light.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir E. DEERING rose to oppose the Bill. With
respect to what had been said about the anomalies existing
ie our Constitution, he thought that it could be shown
that they were the cause of benefit rather than of disad-
vantage. Mtn of influence in other countries had tried to
assimilate the Constitution of their own country to that of
Great Britain, but by neglecting to borrow our anomalies,
the utility of which they did not understand, they had in
general failed, anti had always fallen short of that prac-
tical utility which we found in our Constitution. With
reference to this Bill, he must say, that the Noble Lord who
introduced it had not established the existence; if any great
practical grievance, and he accordingly could find no practi-
cal benefit which would result from the Bill. The two lead-
ing objections which he took to the Bill were—the nature
of the enfranchisement, and the improper distribution of
the peter cf electing representatives. Ile objected to the
101. qualification, because it disqualified and disfranchised
a large part of the country, and would be unequal in its
operation in the towns and in the country. In the former
it would give almost universal suffrage ; in the latter it
would embrace but a limited number of voters. It would
give, also, great advantages to the 10/. voters in towns over
the occupier of time soil. The Noble Lord who brought
in the Bill professed a wish to give the landed interest its
full share of influence ; hut by the distribution of the re-
presentatives the landed interest would he left in a consi-
derable minority. It was said that the Reform was to
uphold the kingSs prerogative; bet, though he could not
foresee what might happen, he much doubted that this
Bill would have any such effect. Without claiming any
foresight, he might venture to affirm that it would be
the forerunner of great and extensive changes. The
Noble Lord bad referred to a former plan he had enter-
tained of leavineethe small boroughs to return one Mem-
leet ; and he had explained, that the reason telly he
thought that plan now not practical was, that a reformed
Parliament would instantly do away with that other
Member —(Heat., hear.) The Bill, however, in its pre-
sent state, left many anomalies ; anti thus it laid the
ground for a more extensive Reform than it introduced ;
ad
col oipened
Ni,
atsi
fee
adrofourl to
to vcaost ntedminniper
tte:.; t condid sne gout enc of
He e
impute
any ulterior or improper motives to the Nelde Lord, he
did not doubt his honesty, but could he answer for his
allies?—(llear, bear.) The Noble Lord had now with
him, and ranged on his side all the turbulent and seditious
spitits of the country-=men disposed to run down and tie-
stroy all the ancient and venerable institutions of the
country. He had hearth nothing to convince him that
there was any practical grievance, and he was quite sure
that the remedy was worse than any theoretical or practical
defect in the Conetitution.
MILES addressed the House, amidst such confu-
sion, owing to Members leaving the House; to repeated
calls for for order and a somewhat singular anti shrill
hurrah, which every now and then encouraged the Hon.
Member, and was beard loud above the other voices.—
We node: stood the Han. Member to advert to the con-
tinuance of taxation as a cause of the cry of Reform ; and
tosmy, that if the taxes which pressed on industry had
been removed, and a tax on property to the amount of 51:
per cent, substituted for them, the country would have
heard nothing of the demand for Reform. Ile saw no
option left but to accept this new and untried Constitution,
or boldly to take his stand on the Constitution which had
been handed down to us by the wisdom of our ancestors;
which had carried us through many dangers and difficul-
ties, and been the safeguard of the country for ages. As
lie was not a theorist he had no hesitation in making his
choice, and he was determined to hold fast by the Consti.
tutthough he might be classed by the Noble Lord
tgrthe ignorant worshippers of antiquity. He would
noti°,7lg:owever, desert the ancient temple of rational liberty
for the gewgaw altars which were to be erected by the
Noble Lord and his Right Hon. and Noble Colleagues.—
'e
ar• )
Time Hon. Gentleman proceeded to object to the
details of the
Mr. GODSON would briefly state to the House the
rea
pass,
by which his mind was convinced the Bill ought
to ln the first place, there could be no doubt of
,he power of the House to change the nature of the elec-
tive franchise. That bad been sufficiently evinced in the
Union with Scotland—in the Unisn with Ireland—and on
the several occasions when the right of election was thrown
into the adjoining hundred. The power, therefore, being
ecknowledged, the question became one of degree. To
what extent was it expedient that the power should be ex-
ercised? Much in that respect must depend upon public
opinion. Now he had for some years observed the cause
,me Reform advancing against wind and tide ; advancing
Against the influence of all theboroughmongers in England ;
advancing against all the eloquence that could be directed
against is. Wby ? Because the public voice was raised loudly

iu be favour. Having ascertained, therefore, that the !louse
had the power of effecting a Reform, and that the public
opinion was favourable to it, the next question was, had
the proper time arrived for carrying it into effect ? Now,
what time could be better than a period of profound peace
for entertaining a proposition in which the interests of so
large a portion of the community were involved ? The
general principles of the Bill were the disfranchisement of
decayed boroughs, the extension of the privilege of repre-
sentation to large towns, and the increase of the number of
Members for counties. To the fist it was difficult to
conceive any objection. With regard to the second, he had
never heard any rational objection ti granting the right of
representation to such places as Birmingham and Man-
chester. And the third would be actually a bonus to the
landed interest and the Aristocracy. To the argument.
that persons connected with the colonies and others would
e unable to obtain setts, his answer was, th at such per-
sons, by purchasing land in counties, would find a much
better mode of entering the House than by means of rotten
boroughs. Contrasting the good, therefore, with the bad,
the former appeared to him so greatly to preponderate,
that he felt bound to support the Bill —( Hear, hear.)
Mr. EDMUND PEEL was sure that the most Mit,-
rious consequences would result front depriving of the
elective fratichi'ae a large body of the people by whom it
had been so long enjoyed ; and that the effect would be
pregnant with danger to many of the long-established and
avell-tried institutions of the cnuntry. He was unknown
in that House, but be had had much experience of the
manufacturing classes ; and he could not conceal his fears
of the consequences which might ensue when the people
found that all the expectations which had been excited—all
the imaginary advantages which they had been taught to
anticipate from the Bill, ended in disappointment. The
Bill went at once to dis!ranchise fifty-seven boroughs, and
to deprive of one Member each forty more, all of whom
were unconvicted of any wrong.—(Hear, hear, hear).
He could not but think that the day was not far distant
when the effects of such a sweeping proposition weuld
show themselves in the diminution of those feelings by which
the various classes of society ought to be bound together.
It could not be maintained that the Bill would do away
with the abuse of non-res:dent voters ; because it gave the
elective franchise to individuals occupying warehouses and
counting-houses—a privilege never before enjoyed. —( !fear,
hear.) Why give the rich non-residents such a privilege,
and take away their privileges from the poor non-resident
fieetnen ?—( Hear, hear.) It was almost the only civil
privilege which the lower classes had. It was almost the
only opportunity they possessed of obliging their opulent
neighbours. Why then dispossess them of that right
which they had exercised for so many ages, and dissever
the only connection between them and the House of Com-
mons ? But it was said that the present voters were open
to bribery. Was he to conclude that the voters of 101. a
year would be inaccessible to it ?—(Loud cries of ‘f Hear,
hear.") Among the many absurdities of the Bill was the
difference which would be made by it in the privileges of
the children now in existence, and the children who would
be born immediately after its adoption. He would not
trespass longer on the House. He only hoped, that what-
ever might be the result, it would assume the character
of a solemn act of legislative wisdom, and not that of the
concession of weak timidity, and a thoughtless love of
popularity.—(Hear, bear.)
Mr. E. LYTTON BULWER said, that so far as the
people were concerned, it was not denied that the Bill was
already carried ; and the late election alone had rendered
it idle and superfluous to insist on those more popular
measures, which, though founded at first on just reasoning,
might now assume the appearance of unnecessary decla-
mation. Ile should proceed, without further preamble, to
what had long seemed to him the strongest, anti is now the
most ostensibleground on which the Anti-Reformers rested
—namely, the probable manner in which the proposed
Bill would affect the power of the Aristocracy. And when
they spoke of the power of any political body distinct from
the people, they must remember that that power was at
this day solely the creature of public opinion ; and that it
was only in proportion as it lost or gained in public
opinion that that power could really be said to be lessened
or increased. Admitting this fact, which was so indis-
putable as to have passed into a truism ; and al arcing over
the aspect of affairs, would any man say that the power
of the Aristocracy was now so safe—so secure in public
opinion—that it ought, at the first blush, to resist the idea
of change? On the contrary, could any man note the
commonest signs of the times, attend any political meeting
read any political writing, have the most shallow acquaint-
ance with the organs of political opinion, and not confess,
that so deep was the demarcation between the aristocracy
and the people, that it had become sufficient alone
to obtain popular suffrage, to declaim, however ignorantly,
against aristocratic privilege? The Anti-Reformers com-
plained of this more loudly than the Reformers, and yet
they referred us to causes much more terrible and irre-
mediable than those which really existed. Again and
again—usrpte all nataeum—they fad referred us to the
first French revolution, and libelled the English aristo-
cracy by comparing its situation with that of the French.
But at that moment, when the English aristocracy were
not popular, it would he well to remember, that there was
no analogy in the cases. The people of this country had
not, as they had in that, a long and black suns of offences
against their superiors, to be scored off on the great reckon-
ing day of revenge. The English aristocracy might occa-
sionally be charged with a haughty neglect of the people,
and with too obstinate a stand upon harsh laws and uta-
gracious prerogatives. But they could not he charged
with the same terrible misuse of power that absolutely
characterized the French ; not with the saute grasping
oppression---not with the same unblushing venality—not
with the same degrading sycophancy to Royal vices, or
the same ruthless indifference to national distress.—
(Cheers.) The great wealth of the English aristocracy,
and their comequent independence of the Court, had pre-
served them as a body from the double necessity of meanness
and extortion, and enabled them as individuals to purchase
popularity at the cheap cost of pecuniary expencc. And if
the cause of any odium they may have incurred had no
analogy in those Causes which directed the vengeance of the
French people against their noblesse, neither, on the other
hand, could it be vaguely referred, as some Hon. Gentlemen
had attempted to do, merely to the general growth of
liberal opinion ; for it would be an assertion altogether
without proof to say that there has ever exi-ted a period
in this country, at least since the time of Jack Cade,
when the doctrine of equalization of rank or property had
obtained so extensively, that the people had formed a
hatred to their superiors merely from their superiority, or
that they have cherished a hatred for power solely from a
love for experiment. Whatever arguments might be alle-
ged in favour of Che Loetwithiels and the Old Sarums, it
was not attempted to he denied that they had made not
only the Parliament, but the Aristocracy thus influencing
the Parliament, unpopular to so great an excess, that nut
only the ills of all the State, the wars, the expenditure, the
debt, but even the very calamities inflicted by Providence
—the scarcity; and the drought—have been laid to the
charge of this noxious influence; and the very extrava-
gance of these attacks, if matter of ridicule to the defenders
of the system, were a proof at least of the extraordinary
odium which the system had incurred. Here, then, at
once was the cause of that great and growing division be-
tween the classes which was so deeply to he feared, it is
obvious, for the sake of the Aristocracy alone (for if he
was right in saying their power was the creature of public
opinion, it was the Aristocracy alone who could lose by
a violent collision of public opinion) ; for the sake
of the Aristocracy alone they ought to he II the
division ; and it was equally obvious, that in order
to heal the division they must remove the cause.
It had bean said that if you remove the nomination
boroughs, you bring the House of Lords in direct collision
with the House of Commons; and that the influence of
the House of the Lords, felt on the floor of that 'Luse,
often preserved the former froM the odium of rejecting po-
pular measures befOre their own immediate tribunal. But
was there ever anything so glatingly inconsistent as the
application of this argument? Hon. Gentlemen are willing
that the House of Lords should now be brought into direct
and violent collision with the House of Commons, lest it
should be brought into collision with it hereafter. Hon.
Gentlemen were willing that the House of Lords should
now incur the certain and collected odium of the country,
for fear it should incur its possible and partial odium here-
after in some imaginary epoch of futurity. By passing over
the notable inconsistency of the application of the argu-
ment, and granting the argument itself in its full force—
granting that there are times and occasions in which it is
well that the influence of the House of Lords should he
felt in that House, and that it does serve to prevent any
collision between the assemblies, was it not evident that
that influence would still remain, only exercised in a consti-
tutional, not an invidious channel. Did Hon. Gentle-
men imagine that after the passing of the Reform Bid, the
Aristocracy would suddenly be left alone in the world, with_
hurt a single tenant possessed of a vote, or a single friend
to whom that vote could be given. To hear the Hon.
Gentleman, one would suppose that they, the hard-hearted
and ruthless Reformers, were not meditating the petty
victory of a Parliamentary Reform, but the much grander
,Nt,retoLik
De of shipping
,
Lard eff
the
whole of the Aristocracy to
at least, that by schedule A
-hey should not leave them an acre, and that by schedule-
B they should cut them off with .a shilling ; and yet, was
hese miserable, victims of radical
;ferocity would nut perfectly (dear that t .
still have sons, and brothers, and cousins
; or,
and friends in that House; and they will still exercise a