The Sun.
London, England, 1825-05-23 00:00:00

=BRITISH CATHOLIC ASSOCIATION,.

On Saturday one of the most numerous and
vespectable meetings of the British Roman Catholic Assoeia-
tlon we ever remember was held at the Crown and Anchor Ta-
*:l3.. The room was crowded to excess. The Chair was taken
by his Grace the Duke of Nonrotx, supported by the Earl of
Fingal, Lord Cliftbrd, Lord Killeen, Lord Gormanstownwere ,
and
the ycunger branches of the Catholic Peerage. There lso
an the platform the Earl of Donouglimore, Lord Be'grave,
).:ml !%ltigent,,Mr. O'Connell, and the other principal Mem-
terx of the Irish Catholic Deputation, and Mr. Macdonald,

M P.
The Duke of NOR OLR, in taking the Chair, expressed his
ewcere sorrow at tb ate decision or the House of Lords, which
erisappointed the:ust hopes of six millions of Irish, and half a
million of English Catholics, because of their adherence to the
asligion of their forefathers, notwithstanding they had fought
and bled in the battles of their country. They had, however,
tee., consolation, that though yet left unrewarded, their cause
i.ed received the Atapport of a large majority of the House of
Commons, and of a very large proportion of the rank, talents,
'end abilities of the Upper House of Parliament. Were lie al-
, hewed for a moment to allude to the situation of the Catholic
Peers, he would say that, on a recent occasion, it was a most
painful one; for though they could not sit within the House of
-eurs, yet they had by courtesy the privilege of standing be-
hind the woolsack, where they were unfortunately obliged to
*near a Right Reverend Prelate fabricate for them doctrines
which they did not profess, and utter defamation against them,
n hich, though present, they were prevented from rebutting._
Wear, heart )—Who had obtained for England the boasted
rivileges of her free Constitution.? Catholics; and yet it was
not deemed enough for the descendants of these asserters of their
eountry'e liberty to be deprived of their just rights, but they
must also be to the mortifying insults of every calum-
niator, who, in defiance of truth and reason, in open contrast
• • a icth the evidence given before Parliament, chose to impute to
tee -a motives which they denied, and objects which they dis-
-- eteimed. His Grace then complained, in the most indignant
seems, of the manner in which the evidence before the Com-
mittee had been garbled,aod misrepresented during the debate,
anti Conjured the Catholics, both of England and Ireland, to be
• manifest to their cause, and to illustrate by their conduct the
,icnagery of the poet, when praising .the Thames, which was
" Strong without rage,
And, without overflowing, full."—(Applause.)
Lord CLIFFORD proposed the first Resolution of Thanks to
-see advocates of their cause in both Houses of Parliament.-
- lie declared the steadfast determination of the Catholics to pro-
secute the recovery of their civil rights by all fair and consti-
tutional means. Not only as Catholics, but as Englishmen,
they were bound to oppose this constitutional infringement of
. their just rights. The Noble Lord then turned. with satisfac-
tion from the disappointment which they had just endured to
the bright prospect held out in their favour by the numerous
petitions from all classes of the people, which had been for-
warded in their favour, and particularly urged the value of the
petition from die bar, which chewed the sense entertained by
the best judges of the law and the Constitution of the unjus-
tifiable enactments which were visited upen the Catholics.
Ile recommended to the Catholics of the empire perseverance
in so goodet•eauee.—(Hear, hear!)—The Noble Lord then
moved the following Resolution
e—
" That this Association has witnessed, with feelings of pre-
found admiration and gratitude, the splendid eloquence, and
:the continued and laborious attention with which the principles
of civil and religious liberty have been triumphantly asserted
in both Houses of Parliament, in the late debates on the Ca,
tholic Question ; and we embrace the earliest opportunity to
offer our warmest thanks to those Members of the Legislature
who hove so nobly advocated our cause."
The Hon. EDW. PETITE seconeded the motion in an elo-
quent speech, and contrasted the liberality of the present Papal
Government at Rome with that of the Russian Government in
the north of Germany, in which Professors at the University
were required to lecture upon slavish doctrines of non-resist-
- ance—a course required also by Prince Metternich, as Minister
of Austria, in the Papal States, but refused by Cardinal Gon=
salvi in the name -of the Pope.
The Resolution of Thanks being carried,
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE was called for. He said, that
in obeying the call which had just been made upon him, he
begged, in returning his thanks to them for the compliment
they had just paid him among their Parliamentary advocates,
to applaud the spirit and determination with which they an-
nounced their perseverance in the attainment of their just rights.
—(Applause.)—He felt. no common interest in the success of
their cause—it was bequeathed to him as an inheritance; for
his father was the first mar. in the empire who had ventured to
raise his voice even for a slight emancipation of his Catholic
fellow-countrymen.—{Cheers.)—Being thus from his birth at-
tached to their cause, believing it to be inseparably connected
with the great cause of civil and religious liberty, through life,
in all the vicissitudes of their fate, he had remained, as he
would to its close, their steady and unaltered advocate.—(Reite-
• rated cheers.)—He, therefore, hailed with fervour that spirit
...which sustained them in the present circumstances, and which
_would, he had no doubt, eventually overcome the obstinacy that
still resisted the justice and policy of concession. The Noble
Earl then commented upon the evidence given before the Corn-
niitees of both Houses of Parliament, particularly by Mr.
O'Connell and Dr. Doyle (Gendemen whom he highly praised)
and which he thought was an unanswerable refutation of the
doctrines imputed to their religion, by the adversaries of the
late Bill. He strongly condemned the flippancy and want of
candour with which that evidence was assailed, and expressed
his belief that the speeches which were recently pronounced
against it, or rather in open disregard of it, were the off-
spring of despair and disappointment, and merely sheaved,
not the conviction of the parties that they were argumen-
tatively disposing of their opponents, but rather that they
were determined, to use the common phrase, to die hard.-
-(Applause and laughter.)--He firmly believed they were ring-
ing the death knell of intolerance.—(Hear' hear, hear !)--It
was singular to see the various forms in which this last feverish
effort of resistance to the Catholic. Claims displayed itself.
They had it in die vituperative hostility of the Right Reverend
Bench—in the denunciation which was hurled against them by
other Lords of Parliament--they had it by the declaration of
an anticipated negative of the Crown, should any untoward ac-
cident (which God avert) bereave them of their present most
gracious Sovereign.—(Hear, hear !)—But they might rest Wis.
fled that it was easier to talk of opposing the royal negative by
anticipation to their just claims, than• to set the example of
. actually using it—an act not attempted since the glorious Re-
volution—a resolution easier issued in words, than enforced in
practice.--(Hear !)--Besides his own unimportant vote which
he had to deliver in their behalf at the close of the last debate,
lie was also entrusted with that of a near connection, who had
• feitlifully served his country in the field—(Lord Hutclinson)—
. - and whose uniform advocacy of their cause did not, he trusted,
' diminish the hereditary attachment of the family to the cause
of civil liberty.----(Cheere.)—lle was also entrusted with the
' proxy of the Marquis Wellesley, who was the earnest and
anxious supporter of Catholic Emancipation, and whose voice,
from his great local knowledge and high station, ought to hare
doe weiglit with his Majesty's Government.—.(Hear, hear!)—
't'he Noble Earl concluded with severely animadverting upon
the tone of hostility with which the question had been met in
curtain quarters, which was so entirely unjustified by the con-
duct and opinions of the Catholics; and declared his firm and
utielterable attachment to their cause, the success of which was
eventually secure.—(Cheers.)
Mr. Bt. use', the Secretary, then moved the following re..
aohltion—
`. That impressed with the . deepest gratitude towards our
fellow _subjects for their support of the "great question of Catlio-
'lie Entencipation, we hereby offer them our sincerest thanks ;
and assure them, that we seek no liberty for ourselves, which
we do not equally desire for our 'fellow countrymen of every
religious denomination."
Which was seconded by Mr. HOWARD, and carried unani.
measly. ,
Mr. Itossuw then moved- the next resolution— 1
" That the great cause in which we are engaged, has heel'
materially assisted by those enlightened members of the English
Bar, and of the two Universities; and also by those Gentlemen
of the city of London, who have signed Petitions to the Legis-
. lattire in favour of cur claims; and we hereby.request that they
will be pleased to accept our sincere thanks." .
' Which was seconded by Mr. Bowan!), junior, and carried
- . unanimously. •
Mr. Quite followed, arid dwelt for a considerable time on the
consequences of the temporary defeat which the Catholics bad
suet:limed, but at the same time he declared leis _full and ample
confidence, that no lack of exertion would be made manifest on.
their parts, in consequence of it.—(Cheers.)--Far wee it from
him to hold out the least intimations, which could by any pos-
sibility be tortured into an expression of menace, or of projected
violence. The Catholics required not such weak aids. Vio-
lence, it was true, had been used towards them—and oppres-
sive meting had been resorted to, for the purpose. of obstructing
their way to a participation in the privileges of the Constitution
—but the great triumph of the Catholics would be in the mode-
retion which they should, on all occasions evince. They
would oppose only to the force which was employed against
dens--thee justice, of their cause.—(Loud applause.)—Mr. Q.
concholed.by moving the following resolution= . .
-" That confiding in the continued co-operation of 'our nu.
onerous friends and advocates—in the generous character of the
-. people of.loeglencie---in the integrity and vigour of our indepen-
dent press; and above all, 'in the immutable justiee of our
cause; we will firmly persevere in claiming the eestoratioh of
Aar rights--neither elated by occasional victory, nor depressed

by -temporary defeat—for we owe it to the free spirit of the
Constitution, and to the consistency of Englishmen, never to
submit to the degradation of being governed by oppressive and

unequal laws." - • . -
Which was seconded by Mr. WALTHAM, and carried nn-

animously.
•
Mr. O'Co NALL,. being loudly called. for, said, lie.felt quite
incapable of performing the task assigned to him ; the cause
was too recent—the blow too lately struck—the cause too great
to allow his judgment any.rocun, and left-him a prey to indig-
nation and his passion. He would endeavour to be as tempe-
rate as the warm current of his Irish blood would permit him.
Although unsuccessful, his friends had advised himao hope—
it was a cheering sound, yet where was he to find any prospect
of hope ? Was he to find it in the history ofhis native country,
which had been kept in a state of slavery and bondage dur-
ing the last 650 years? Was he to find it in contracts re-
peatedly made, and as often broken ? In treaties made and
afterwards abandoned ? His religion was called Roman, and
he was so far a Roman than he would never despair. Hope
never deserted even the miserable wretch in .his cell, and
it cheered men even in their dying moments, and he
yet hoped that one day the exertions of the Catholics
would be crowned with success. He defied even bigotry
itself to say why Catholics should be any longer kept in a state
of slavery. It had been said their religion was one of persecu-
tion—he denied it ; the Catholics had been twice in 'power after
enduring persecution, but they did not retaliate. .No ; when
theyavere in power, not a drop of Protestant blood was shed
by the Irish Catholics. He then took a review of the history of
Ireland, and commented on the most remarkable events as
he proceeded. Ile then continued :—Statements had been made
in the House of Commons, prejudicial to the Catholics; which
were entirely without foundation. 'Archbishop King bed pub-
lished a pamphlet, stating that 37 churches had beep taken from
the Protestants by the Catholics ; that assertion was well known
to be false, and he could not express his feeling of contempt for
those who had made quotations from such a work. He did not
expect much from Parliament, which began by trampling on
the Catholic Association. The Catholics had been accused of
making intemperate speeches, and garbled extracts, and scraps
of newspapers had been read in proof of the assertion. Mr.
Bankes had read an extract.from one of his speeches, but unfor-
tunately he read the wrong part, although he had taken the
pains to mark out the passage previously. Mr. B. was a very
great man, and he thought England ought to be proud of such
a paragon of perfection. After making some observations
on the speeches. made by some other Members of Parliament,
Mr. O'C. observed, he had heard it stated that the great body
of Catholics cared but little about 'emancipation : and that
only a few Noblemen, who wished fox seats in the Upper
House, interested themselves in the question. Although his
countrymen were Irish by name, yet they were British sub-
jects by right, and they • had unanimously come forward man-
fully and openly to claim a participation in those blessings enjoy-
ed by the rest of his Majesty's subjects. I have been called, said
Mr. O'C., an agitating lawyer—l own that lam an agitator, and
I will continue one until I see my native country restored to her
rights.—( Loud cheers.)—The Catholic Association did consider-
able good in Ireland—in every county where its meetings were
`held the disturbances immediately ceased,.and in those places
there was a cessation of criminality and hostility, The Associa-
tion had only requested to be heard, when they undertook to dis-
prove the charges that had been brought against them. At
the time of the formation of the Catholic Association there
were eleven counties in Ireland in a state of insurrection and in-
subordination. The curfew, that ancient badge of British slavery,
then prevailed there, but after the establishment of the Associa-
tion all was peace, quiet, and tranquillity, under the expectation
that the people would receive a just and, legitimate relief. The
use of the curfew was establishing altreeetlent, which he hoped
would never again be extended to Engrand. The suppression of th e
Catholic Association was an injury so great, and an act of injus-
tice so abominable, that he felt convinced it would be repealed
during the next Session of Parliament. It exceeded any mea-
sure that was ever carried in the Divan of Algiers How could
lie tell his countrymen to hope for redress, When such an abo-
minable measure had been passed in England ? Yet he found
some reason to hope for redress, when he considered the reason
that had been employed against him. Ile would begin by no-
ticing the speech of the Keeper of the King's " English" Con-
science.—(A laugh.)—He believed his Majesty had three con--
sciences;one English, one Irish, and the third Hanoverian, of
which he was the keeper himself.—(Hear ! )—One that was all
liberality and justice, and he could not sufficiently blame those
who advised his Majesty not to do that of justice to his
Catholic subjects, which, if left to his own feelings on the sub-
ject, he would do immediately. The first argument of the Lord
Chancellor was, that if Catholic Emancipation were granted,
the Dissenters must then be relieved from the restrictions im-
posed on them. He thanked him for saying so, and heartily
agreed with him in that opinion. He did not wish to compare
theological opinions, but to claim universal liberty of conscience:
He thought Dissenters equally entitled to relief with Roman
Catholics. As to the Test and Corporation Acts, he hoped that,
in justice to the Dissenters of England, those acts would ere
long be abolished. He knew that the liberal portion of Dissen-
ters were friends-to Catholic Emancipation—force might maks
hypocrites, but could not make conscientious believers. He
detested the use of 'either force or fraud—either might change
the outward profession, but either could not change the heart.
All he asked of the opponents of Catholic Emancipation
was, to
_use a vulgar phrase, a clear stage and no favour ;
let the question be decided by conscientious men, and the
will of the: Eternal God. The Lord Chancellor bad stated
that the English was a Protestant Constitution. He was of
a contrary opinion. It was Catholics who obtained from a
tyrant the celebrated Magna Chaste. It was the Catholics who
instituted the trial by Jury, of which the English nation were
so justly proud, who procured the sitting. of the Lords in a
house separate from the Commons. Are not all these part of
the ingredients of the Constitution ? Even the office of Chancel--
lor was instituted by the Catholics, which was originally filled
by Cotholic Priests. The first layman who filled the office
was the martyred Sir Thomas Moore, who left office with only
101• in his pocket, an example which lie dare say the present
Chancellor would not follow.—(A laugh.)—The Government
willingly accepted the services of the Catholics, but refused to
pay them their wages. An act of such gross injustice and in-
tolerance, that he sew eld not venture to describe it. A certain
Bishop who had spoken upon the question, spoke very largely
upon his disinterestedness; he had formerly been an advocate
for Catholic Emancipation, but changed his opinion the moment
he was appointed tutor to Lord Liverpool's nephew. The
speech of Dr. Drumgoole, on which so much had been said,
was disapproved of by the Catholics, who held a meeting; on the
following day, and reprobated the language he used. Vet the
Rev. Bishop had thought proper to state that the language he
used met with the approbation of the Catholics. He then
mentioned the name of Dr. Doyle, to whom the Catholics
owed a debt of gratitude they coulA never repay. Yet even
lie had been misrepresented and calumniated. Had the
Catholics ever misrepresented the Protestants, as the Bishop
already alluded to had misrepresented the Catholics? If a
Catholic Priest had been guilty of such wilful misrepre-
sentation, he would call him a liar and a calumniator, and,
state that he was unfit to be a Bishop, having broken that
commandment which said—" Thou shalt not bear false witness
against thy neighbour." His friend (Mr. O'Gorman) moved
a Resolution of censure. upon the speech delivered by Dr.
Drumgoole, the language of which met with the universal dis-
approbation of Irish Catholics. In looking at the speeches de-
livered in the House of Commons, he found much to admire.,
As to the speech of M r. Canning, it was a sunny spot on the desert,
of Irish desolation— it sounded in his ears like the recollection
of ancient music. Then came Mr. Brougham, the ornament of
the English Bar—with a mind vast and .comprehensive, and
whose whole political conduct did honour to the country that
gave him birth. Then came Mr. Plunkett, who had advocated.
their cause with a strength of mind and energy seldom equalled,
and never surpassed. He would never despair while the cause
of Catholic Emancipation was supported by such talent anti
ability. In the recent discussion, it was true, there were none
. killed, but there were some missing, and one deserter—Lord
Carbery, who had spoken for, and voted against them. The'
Marquis of Anglesea had said, "Now is the time to fight"—
He should at least recollect, that his glories and his medals
were bought by the young blood of the Catholics of Ireland ;
but for them the Great Conqueror, who looked, for talents and
not for Creeds, would have succeeded in making this country
submit to his yoke, He trusted, however, that his countrymen
would no longer fight the battles of England-until she did them
justice.—(Tremendous applause.)—Although soldiers could be
found. who would fight for England, yet he trusted there were-
none who would use their swords against their unoffeading coun-
trymen. The speech of the NobloMarquis would be read with
delight in the Orange Lodges, and might be instrumental in
causing innocent blood again to be shed in his unhappy coun-
try, and then, what would the Noble Marquis have to answer
for? On his t Mr. O'Connell's) arrival in England, he met about
250 recruits,principally Trish,who were laughing and merry,mere-
ly because they were alive; and on his being recognised by some
of them, they, surrounded his carriage anti gave him three
cheers.—(Hear, hear 1)—I tell the Noble Marquis we will not
fight now, but when we (10 he shall not have the ,choice of po-
sition. After complimenting Sir F. Burdett, whom he styled
the Russell of his day, and the Esrl of Donoughmore, the
Champion of the Catholics, whose father, he said, in the starless
night of Irish desolation, lit up the light of hope among his un-
fortunate countrymen, and whom :he hoped would live to see
the full moon of freedom beaming around it, the Learned Gen-
tletnen concluded as follows : I return to my own country with
horror, affliction, and affright,
injustice done her; but .1 will Noe no more upon the subject,
it is too overpowering I will
. when I think of the injury and
,will give my countrymen a les-
son of Moderation and prudence; but, at the seine time tine of
firnme.sii and-determination. 'l'ho Government have put down
one association, but I p-.anise to treat than to another, I shall

persuade them to use a patient but persevering resistance, but
not to resort to violence. The. Learned Gentleman then con-
cluded amidst the waving. of hats, &c., and was complimented
with three hearty cheers by the •
Mr. O'Gon MAN next addresSecT the meeting. lie corro-
borated the statement of his Learned Friend, Mr. O'Con-
nell, with respect to the immediate disavowal, by the Irish
Catholics, of the sentiments contained in Dr. Dromgoold's
speech. The assertion that the Irish Catholics had ever sanc-
tioned that speech was- a-falsehood as gross as ever came from
the lips of a calumniator. This calumny was the more like-
ly to create an impression unfavourable to the Catholics, as
it had gone abroad that Dr. Dromgoold was a Docuir of
Divinity, whereas he was Only a medical Doctor. The Learn-
ed Gentleman then went on to point out the good effects which
had resulted to the peace of Ireland by the exertions of the
Association, and condemned the absurd principle on which that
Association was put down—not for what it had done, but on
. the assumption that the influence it possessed might be hereaf-
ter abused.
Mr. HENRY HUNT next presented himself to the notice of
the meeting, but was prevented from being heard for some
minutes, by cries of " Off, off!"
Mr. O'CoNwELL at length interfered, and hoped that as
men sincerely looking for liberty, they would give that to others
which they sought for themselves.
Mr. HUNT then proceeded, and was alluding to the situa-
tion of the English Catholic as compared to that of the Irish,
when - - •
The Puke of .4/0 nFO LK observed, that that was not relevant
to the business of the meeting.
Mr. HUNT bowed, and went to another topic. Mr. O'Con-
nell, he observed, had asked, would the English people stand
by and see their Irish brethren so used ? He (Mr. Hunt) said,
yes, they would, unless the Irish Catholics acted differently
next year, and brought in. their-Bill without the " wings," or,
as they ought-more properly to be called, the " clogs" which
hung on it this Session, and not seek to gain their object by
the disfranchisement of their countrymen. The " clogs" were
the cause of the apparent inactivity of Englishmen on the ques-
tion this year, for he was satisfied the great majority of the
people of England were favourable to it. Mr. Hunt was pro-
ceeding to speak on Parliamentary Reform, and asked whether
this question could ever be carried except in a reformed Parlia-
ment? when
The Duke of NoRPOLE reminded Mr. Hunt that this was
not relevant ; and Mr. Hunt, after a declaration that reform
alone could carry the question, took his seat.
Mr. BLouNT congratulated the Catholics on the triumph
they had had gained, in the disposition they had shown to hear
what every gentleman had to offer on the subject before them.
The Hon. Mr. CLIFFORD then came foward and addressed
the Meeting for a few minutes. He was anxious to do so from
one observation that had fallen from the eloquent and Learned
Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell), whb had said that he would be
satisfied with having the Catholics of this country on the same
footing as the Protestants of France with respect to the French
Catholics. For his -part, he would not be satisfied with any
thing short of an entire equality with his Protestant fellow-
subjects. Ile wanted no superiority of either. He sought for
that which was his birthright as a Briton, and would not rest
content with that portion of privilege which the Protestants of
France or any other country might enjoy. The question of
Emancipation was one which lie should not wish to have dis-
cussed in any other manner than as it affected the security of
the Constitution. The same arguments that would apply
against the admission of the Catholic to equal privileges would
also apply against the best support of the British Constitution—
namely, the necessity of giving all classes on equal interest in
its defence.—(Cheers.)
Mr. O'CoxNELL, in explanation, said, that the Hon. Gen-
tleman had mistaken him. Ile had spoken only of the equali-
zation of rights between Protestant and Catholic in the smile
manner as it existed in France.' He had no intention of com-
paring the excellent Constitution of this country with that thing
which the French called their " Charter." The French con-
stitution had emanated from the King, which was not its legi-
timate source : the Constitution of England emanated from
that source from which alone all power ought to be derived—
the people.—(Cheers.)
The fourth resolution was then put, and carried unani-
mously.
The Duke of NORFOLK having left the chair, .
The Earl of If 1 N GAL L -was called thereto.
Lord CLIFFORD then moved the thanksof the meeting to his
Grace, for his dignified and impartial conduct in the chair. •
. This was seconded by Lord Go It ItAISTOW s,and carried by
acclamation-.
His Grace returned thanks : after which the meeting broke
up.