The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-26 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, MONDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 26, 1849.

STAMP DUTIES ON NEWSPAPERS.
Sir T. BIRCH. presented a petition from certain
letter-press printers in Liverpool, praying the House to
remove the stamp duties on newspapers; also a petition
from inhabitants of Liverpool, praying for a removal of
the taxes on the social comforts of life.
DIAL-ADMINISTRATION OF COLONIAL
AFFAIRS.

Mr. SCOTT presented petitions from the inhabitants
of certain electoral districts in New South Wales com-
plaining of the mal-administration of affairs in the co-
lony, and as being utterly at variance with the prin-
ciples of the British constitution.
NAVIGATION-LAWS.
Sir J. JOHNSTONE presented a petition from cer-
tain shipowners, tradesmen, and artisans of Scarbo-
rough against the repeal of the navigation-laws.
SECEDING CLERGYMEN.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD presented a petition
from the inhabitants of Rochdale, praying the House to
extend the provisions of the Act of Toleration
to o!ergymen seceding from the Established Church.
NATIONAL EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
Lord BERNARD presented a petition from a place in
Ireland, against the system of national education in Ire-
land.

TURNPIKE TRUSTS BILL.
Sir JOSHUA WALMSLEY presented a petition from
,he inhabitants of Thetford against the Turnpike Trusts
Bill.

(Sir John Hobhouse) bad objected to the form in
which the Hon. Member had put his question on a pre-
vious evening, as he had endeavoured to introduce into
it a little speech.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that the
Hon. Member would put his question in a proper form,
in order that it might be easily answered.

had a considerable reduction in the amount ex

pended for the relief of the poor, and we
have flattered curselves that reduction would

be permanent.—(Hear, hear.) But, Sir, what
has been the case ? Why, in England itself
alone the increase since that period has been
fifty per cent. in the amount expended for
the relief of the poor—(Hear, hear,—and the county
rates I find similar results. For the year ending the
25th March, 1835, the amount raised for county rates
amounted to 671,0001., but in March, 1847, it was
1 266,0001., so that we have been nearly doubling our
county rates since 1835.—(Cheers). And I must say
think that local charges of this kind form a much surer
index of the state of the country than the imperial tax-
ation, because they are expended for the relief of
pauperism, the suppression of crime, and the con-
struction of gauls and workhouses.—(Hear, hear.)
Your local expenditure, in fact, is a kind
barometer, showing the social state of the whole
country—(Hear, hear)—and I must say the pro-
gress of these rates during the last fourteen or fifteen
years has been of a most discouraging and alarming
to in the local tribunals themselves. It is my conviction
that this progress in the local expenditure must be stop-
ped by imperial legislation. To reduce and check the
local taxation, to check this growing evil of increasing
expenditure you must apply the remedy in this
House by general legislation.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Now, Sir, I think these facts will prepare us all for
entering into this subject, with a desire, if possible, to
find a means of reducing the expenditure which leads
to these evils.—(flear, hear.) I now come to the point
upon which I have heard much cavilling; but I do not
wish it to form an obstacle in the way of any Hon.
Gentleman joining me who may be anxious for
reduction.—(Hear, hear.) It has been objected to me
in this way. lam asked, why do you take 1835 as the
standard to go upon ?—(Hear.) It is said that lam taking
an arbitrary standard, and I have been charged with
being dogmatical in the view I have taken of this ques-
tion,, and that I have taken an imaginary standard.
No ; I have not. What I have done in this case is pre-
cisely what we should all do in our private affairs
When we find we have been doing wrong we look back
to the point where we started from when we began to
go wrong.—(Hear, hear.) And in doing that lam only
following the precedent applied to similar causes by my
Honourable Friend the Member for Montrose, as well as
many other Hon. Gentlemen, both Whigs and Tories.
I appeal to the House whether after the French revolu-
tionary war, it was not the pracctice in this House of the
leading men of both parties to refer to the standard of
1792.

Mr. HUME—Both Whigs and Tories did so.
Mr. COBDEN—Whigs and Tories did 30,
my. Honourable Friend reminds me. I -
point of7fact men of all shades of politics did so, and
1792 was the point from which they started before they
bad entered into these unhappy hostilities.—(Hear.)
It waslhe practise adopted by Mr. Pitt after the A. meri•
can war. A Financial Committee was appointed in 1817
by Lord Castlereagh, where Lord Castlereagh himself
sat, and that Committee distinctly referred to 1792 as the
standard to be aimed at, and the point of departure to which
they should endeavour to return.—(Hear, hear.) Well,
Sir, I will allude to an expression from an Hon. Member
who sat on the Opposition side of the House in 1822,
when he argued to show the propriety of the course we
are now pursuing. I will quote from a speech made by
the Marquis of Lansdowne, who moved as a resolution,
some% bat analogous to mine. He said it was necessary
for him to compare the present with former estimates, as
that was the only way in which they could derive any
advantage from the experience and wisdom of
former times; that the practice was approved
of by Right Hon. Gentlemen whose authority the
House could scarcely dispute, he said. he meant Mr.
Pitt, who in 1786 had a Committee appointed which took
for the ground of its inquiry the peace estimates 0f1763
—that was the only practical ground on which a
question of this nature could be determined.—(Hear.)
Now, Sir, I hope I may not be unjustified by the pre-
cedent. I am not one who attaches an undue weight to
precedents; but I think this case, to which I have re-
ferred, forms a good example for me in drawing the
attention of the House to the estimates of 1835
tied I say 1835. I may as well state that
if I took 1833, 1834, 1835, and 1836, it would make little
difference in the argument. I find that. the interest
upon the funded and unfunded debt in 1835 was
28,514,000/., and in 1808 28,563,0001, so that there is
wily about 50,000/. difference between those two periods.
I find that the army and navy iu 1835 was 11,6e7,000/.
and in 1848 17,645,0001., and the Kafir war, which I
cannot separate from the estimates, for I know not when
it may commence again, cost 1,000.000/., making alto-
gether 16,745,000/. for last year. The civil
expenditure and consolidated funds was in 1835,
4,251,000 L, and in 1848 6,548,000/. I wish to draw the
attention of every-Hos. Member to this point—that the
28,500,0001. of the funded And unfunded debt, cannot be
proposed for any reduction, you have for the civil ex-
penditure 6.598,0001., and more than half of this goes
to the consolidated fund. But I hope you will iu time
be able to make considerable reductions in that
You come then to the sum of three or four millions a
year for the miscellaneous service, upon which you are
to exercise the pruning knife, unless you adopt the
plan I represent to you,namely, that of reducing your mili-
tary establishments to the extent of 8,000,0001. Many gen-
tlemen connected with the military establishments of the
country think I do this out of personal feelings against
them, I can assure them I do it from no such motives, but
from necessity. If you wish to make great reductions
you must apply it to the Army, the Navy, and Ordnance.
—(Hear, bear.) I will now show you what the increase
of the expenditure has been since 1835, and what caused
the increase, and I will then leave it to the House
to decide whether those causes remain at the
present time.—(Hear, hear.) In 1836 there
was an additional vote of 5,000 seamen
to the Navy.—(Hear, hear.) I am speaking to Honour-
able Gentlemen who well remember what has passed in
thin country. In 1836 great apprehensions were
telt in this country respecting a Russian in-
vasion.—(Cries of " Dear, hear.") We had at that time
iome three or four igentlemen in this country
at that time who, I thouht, had a mo-
nomania on the subject, and I perpetrated
two or three pamphlets on the subject.—(Laughter).
The cry was raised all over the country and it
was echoed in the press, and the result was
,hat my Right Honourable Friend (the Member for
Halifax) recommended the increase in the navy,
and it was also recommended in the Speech
front the throne, but is there any thought of Russian
invasion now.— (Hear, hear, and laughter.) In 1838
the rebellion in Canada occurred that gave rise
to an increase of 8,000 men in our army; that re-
bellion was, however, soon put an end to, and Canada
has obtained all she can desire from self-govern-
ment, and I only wish the population of this coun-
try was placed on the same footing. In 1839
there was another increase proposed in the army.
There bad been an apprehended outbreak in South
Wales—l allude to the affair at Monmouth—the riots
treaded by Frost, Williams, and Jones. There
.
was great turbulence that part of the country,
Ind the Noble Lord distinctly stated that an addition of
5,000 men was required to meet their domestic troubles.
Well, but we have had since then some years of uninter•
rupted peace at home, many years during which Chartists
were not heard of, and when there was no turbulence in the
.and ; yet the 5,000 men remained.—(Hear.) I now
came to 1840 and 1841. We had a war with China—a
war in Syria—we had a threatened rupture with
France, and we were embroiled with America with res-
pect to the arrest and trial of Mr. M'Leod.
These were periods of excitement, times not without
peril to the peace of the country, and an addition of
5,000 men was made at that time. The China war is
at an end. Syria is in the hands of the Turks. There
is no longer a threatened rupture with France
ior with America, and the M'Leod matter has been
settled—(Hear,
hear)—yet the 5,000 men remain.—
(Hear, hear.) I then come to 1847. We had a dispute
with the United States with respect to the Mayne
boundary. In fact, a dispute between the two
countries had existed for some time with respect
to Carolina—a dispute kept up since 1842, and
there was considerable apprehension in America, and
some on this side of the water, that the dispute
would lead to war. 4,000 sailors were added to the
Navy; but Lord Ashburton brought over a treaty set-
ding the whole dispute with respect to the Mayne boun
lary; yet we have had no reduction in the number of
these sailors.—(Cheers.) Now, Sir, then I come to 1845,
In 1845 a serious state of things existed. We had a
dispute with the United States with respect to the
Oregon boundary, and President Polk sent a
very warlike me ssee;e. General Cass made some
very foolish see echts, and there was a. strong
feeliing on both sides of the water that imminent
Manger to both sides was impending. America had
threatened to take possession of the whole territory, and
we were bound in honour to keep possession
of a territory wnich had been ceded to us by universal
consent. He had at that time a proposition for a fleet
of evolution. The proposition was acceded to, and I
of papers the
recollect it was stated inthe
time that the squadron was more .formidable than that
which won the battle of the Nile. It was paraded
about Spithead in the face of the American Navy,
1,700,000/. was voted at that ti▪
me to the
Navy and Ordnance, for the maintenance of
that new fleet, and' the Honourable Member
for Montrose :gave a willing assent to the increase in
hr r'olmates under the "circuinnstances mentioned.—
Llittghter • 1414 I "Hear, 'hem.," from Mr. Hums.)
was settled in the
End uregan question
summer of 1846 ; that settlement was the last
act of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel)
before he left office in 1846. No plea, therefore, exists for
keeping up this enormous armament- In 1846, no sooner
was the Oregon matter settled, than we entered into a
dispute with France respecting the Spani▪
sh marriages.
%Ye call it a Court quarrel, because, he must maintain,
that the people of this country had no interest in i▪
n.—.
(Hear, hear.) But it gave rise to bad blood in France,
and to a state of irritation in this cour.itry:. and the press
of the two countries fanned it . into. a flame,
and no one can deny there was great if not
hostility, between the two countries. It was increased
by the previous publication of Prince Joinville's
pamphlet, and also by the old grudge with Mr.
Pritchard. In 1846 we increased our mili▪ tary
and naval; expenditure 1,200,000/.; and in 1847 this
spirit continued between the two countries until we had
question about fortifying our country against the
attacks France. We were informed by Mr.
Pigou, the gunpowder maker, that Frances was
coming to attack us.—(Great laughter.) Well, then,
one million nearly was incurred by the military and
navy in 1847. I believe the whole increase was 1,600,000/.
for the army, navy, and ordnance in 1847. But what
I wish to ask is this—whether there one of those causes
which led to these successive augmentations to our ma-
rine and to our ordnance and army, which now remains.
—(Hear, hear.) The cost of which I hare spoken I
think must hare been the most serious of 411, though

I stated it was but a diplomrtic quarrel,
yet as it had become dynastic, and as the
second generation, in Prince Joinville, had entered into
this quarrel, it must have grown into something serious
to the two countries if the question had not been solved
by a very rude hand—by the late revolution in France
—which has put an end to all quarrel betwen this
country and France on the subject of the marriages in
Spain.—(Hear, hear.) Well I wish to ask Honourable
Members, those who are going to oppose me on this
motion, Those whn will not admit that we must
return as speedily as practicaible to the standard
of expenditure such as we had in 1835, to put tneir
finger en any one of those causes for tno.e sticce,ive
augmentations of this t xpenditure, and ell me if one
now remains.—(Hear, hear.) We stand at the present
moment in an infinitely superior poittion as regards our
foreign relations to which we did in 1835; for in that
year, when we had reduced our expenditure to that
point, Hun. Gentlemen will remember we were not in a
very friendly position with Russii. For several
years we had no ambassador at Russia. We .err
marauding too at at that time on the coast of Spain. for
we had our quadruple treaty by which we furnished
mercenaries under our foreign marine. But I ask and
one who opposes me in asking this reouel,di of
our armament, to point out where the reduction is
threatened. Is it with America, with its boundary
question ; is it with Russia, will its millions of ser:s;
or is it with France, with its people involved in
rintestirnz dit•sensions? Is it with Germany that
Iwo dread a collision? Where is it to come from?

I tell you that if England confines hrself to her own
affairs—(Hear, hear)—if she did not run needlessly
and rashly into the tnternal disputes of other countrie..,
there never was a time when we stood as free from the
danger of war as at this moment. There is one
objection to our going back to the standard of our ex-
penditure in 1835, and it is this; we are told we re-
duced our expenditure in 1835. The Hon. Member
for Montrose will not admit that.—(Laughter.) I re-
member in that year, in my own humble way,
writing on the subject of the expenditure for our
armaments, which was eleven millions and a half,
and contending for its reduction.—(Hear, hear.)

BANK OF FRANCE.
The follosving is a return of the situation of the Bank
of France up to Feb. 22:

ASSETS.

Cash and ingots
Ditto in branch banks
Bills past due
Bills falling due in Paris, of which
14,620,680 f. 6c. are from the branch
banks ••• ••• •••
Bilis in the branch bAnks . .
Advancu.s on coins and ingots...
Ditto on French public securities
Dit,o by branch banks... ...
Ditto to the State on Bons du Presor.
Ditto on the loan of 150 millions .
Rentes of thy reserve Lund .
Reutes disposabh, tunds
Inves'inents of the new branch banks in
the public funds ...

. . ". n 67,179,697 56
. . 127,756 980 00
". _ 138,723 05

... 53,468200 15
92 393,887 87
19,128,167 00
31.430,42905
1.554.337 00
50,000,00000
50,000,000 00
10.00i),000
42,581,488 13

12,806,741 39

Hotel and lurniture (it the Bank ... 4.000.000 00
Real p-operty ot tre brown banks ... 2.273.734 00
Loan 0! 10.000.00 W. to ire city ot Paris 7,090 000 00
Interest in National Discount Bank ... 200.000 00
Ditto bra.ich banks ... ... ... 230.000 00
Bills voile-fed at P,,IT, ••• •• 8 921.538 38
;lit() at thi, brancoes ... ••• ... 4,546.759 00
Expenses tit adininistratiur of the Bank 127 831 36
Inv. of the branches ... ... .., 138,002 00
Miscellaneous ... ... ... ... 406,981 15
Advance to the depattnit nt of the

Ssiiie ••• ... ••• ...
,oati co' 3,000,000 f. to tht City of Mar-
seilles ... ... ... ... ...

2,000.000 00

750,000 00

LIABILITIES.

Capital ...

f. 689,033,497 09

Ditto of the Branch Banks

f. 67.900,000 00

:eserve fund

... 23,350,000 00

Ditto of the branch banks
Reserve-immobihere ...

10.000.000 00

Notes to bearer, in circulation ...
Ditto of the branch banks ...

... 2,980,950 00
... 4,000,000 00

... 404,974,300 00
.., 17,214,850 00

Ditto to order (post-bills) 895,341 00
Account-current with Treasury creditor 33.852,756 74
Various accounts current 0,595,374(53
Ditto in branches ... 25,051,701 00
Bills payable at sight 5,172,300 00
Ditto at branches ••• .. ••• 867,592 00
Bills of the branch banks payable by

the Bank ... ... 6.334,358 94
Ditto of the Bank payable by branches.. 2,689,099 00
Dividends payable .. • • ... 436,413 25
Liquidation of the Algiers Bank ... 233,649 04
Discounts, interest, and expenses ... 855,790 74
Ditto branch banks ... ... 815,735 00
Re-discounts of the last six months ... 246,109 85
Ditto in branch banks .. ... 460,661 00
Miscellaneous ... 108,715 00

f. 689,033,497 09

THE 4, DUE' WEST INDIA MAIL

PACKET.

There is some doubt and uncertainty as to when the
next West India mail will reach this country. When
the Tweed was wrecked on the same spot at which the
Forth is reported to have been lost. the Avon arrived at
Southampton within four days after the time allowed
by the Post-office for her being due. This circum-
stance arose, however, from the Avon having been met
with at sea and her captain made acquainted with the
loss of the Tweed. As it is not very probable this will
be the case again there is not likely to be a West India
mail received here (if the Forth is wrecked, and no Go-
vernment steamer is sent home with the mail) until the
sth of March. It is worthy of notice, however, that
many very competent persons connected directly and
indirectly with the West India Company, entertain
some doubts as to the fact of the Forth having been
lost on the Alacranes. When the Teviot was at Na,sau
on the 2d of January, a large ship had juit been
wrecked on those reefs ; and in tact, the
wreckers of the Bahamas were actually engaged
on the wreck at that time. Now, it is more
than probable that the Forth was at Jamaica
on the Bth of January, and, if so, she must
have been in the vicinity of the Alacranes immediately
after that date, unless she changed her route. It is not
at all improbable, therefore, that the large ship on the
Alacranes might have been mistaken for the Forth.
There cannot be a doubt that the Admiralty agent on
board the Forth decided on n, ,t going to the Mobile, on
account of her being so touch behind time. Now the
mail packet was due at Mobile about the very date of
the telegraphic diipatch from that pLice to Captain
Caappell. The rumour. therefore, of her loss, coupled
with her non arrival at Mobile in due course, might
have induced a belief at the latter place of the accuracy
of the report. The captain of the Forth wrote on the
6th January to his wife at Southampton, informing her
that he should arrive home about the Ist of Marcb. In
fact, he could not possibly, if ever} thing even went well,
arrive home before. Until that period has elapsed, there-
fore, there is some slight hope that the wreck et the
Forth is not true. It appears that there is a species of
harbour at some part of the Alacranes where the
wreckers find shelter. These wreckers belong to New
Providence and the rest of the Bahamas. They have
been about the reefs ever since the wreck of the Tweed,
and at the time the Forth is said to have been lost were
busy, as has been already related, with the wreck of the
large ship that was lost there.

BATHS AND WASIIHOUSES. PARISHES OF ST.
MARGARET'S ♦ND ST. JOHN'S, WESTMINSTER.—On Sa-
turday forenoon a meeting of the select vestry of the
united parish, s of St. Margaret's and St. John's, West-
minst( r, was held in the vestry room of St. Margaret's
Church, to consider the propriety of nominating commis-
sioners for carrying into execution the Act 9 and 10
Vict., being an Act to encourage the estab'ishment of
baths and washhouses; Mr. Trollope in the chair, when
a resolution was agreed to, that the Act should be car-
ried into effect, and the following were the commissioners
appointed for that purpose (being the full number re-
quired by the Act) :—The lion. T. C. Talbot, Lieute-
nant-Colonel Short, Rev. T. Jennings, rector of St.
John's; Mr. William Hawes, Mr. G. Wilson, Mr. James
Hunt, and Mr. William Burridge.
PLYMOUTH, FEB. 23.—A small vessel stove up, was
passed in the night of the 21st inst., about mid-channel,
by the Corkscrew steamer, arrived here from Cork.
Sid. 25, John Bright, Sydney; Penelope, Cape of Good
Hope.
CARDIFE, FEB. 24.—Wind W.N.W.—SId, 23, Su-
perior, Manilla.
MILFORD.—SId, 24, Diana, Calcutta ; Sarah, New
York.

LAW INTELLIGENCE.
COURT OF COMMON PLEAS, Feb. 24.

(Sittings at Nisi Prius, at Guildhall, before the Lord
Chief Justice WILDE and a Special Jury.)
BROWN AND OTHERS. ASSIGNEES, V. NORRIS.
(Continued from our Third Edition of Saturday.)
The LORD CHIEF JUSTICE summed up, and stated,
that if the payment were made iairly and bora fide, and
in the o' dinury course of business, or if it were made
under the influence of pressure, the jury should find for
the defendant; but if it were made ♦oluntarily, and in
the execution of a desire to give the defendant a pre-
ference, in contemplation of bankruptcy, they should find
for the plaintiffs.
The jury returned a verdict for the defendant.

JUDGES' CHAMBERS, Feb. 24.
(Before Mr. Justice PATTEBON.)
ORDER OF AFFILIATIuN ON COLONEL BLANE.

Mr. Justice PATTESON granted to-day a writ of
certiorari to remove this case into the Court of Queen'a
Bench. _ _ _ _

The application was made on Thursday last by Mr
Pushley, on behalf of Colonel Blanc, who statrd that the
grounds for the application were, that the mother of the
child having applied to Mr. Hardwick, the magistrate of
the Marlborough-street police•court, for an order of
affiliation, which he refused, the case could not be re•
heard by tv.other magistrate, and also, that the chile
having been born abroad, it was not within the jurisdic
tion of the English law.