The Sun.
London, England, 1822-05-11 00:00:00

DISTRESS IN IRELAND.

The Earl of DARNLEY rose.--Their Lordships knew, the
public knew, and his Majesty's Ministers ought long since to
have known, that in certain districts in the South-western parts
of Ireland, considerable distress existed amongst the peasantry.
Although it was matterof congratulation that the subject should
have been taken up as warmly as it had been by wealthy indi-
viduals in this country, and that a noble subscription should
have been pranced, it was also matter of crimination against
his Majesty's Ministers that they had not taken it up themselves,
and that being informed as they must have been of the ap-
proach of that distress, they had' not adopted timely measures
to prevent it. If the Noble Earl could say that such measures
had been adopted, not only to relieve, but to obviate distress,
he should be most happy to hear it, but as far as he was in-
formed, that was not the case, and suffering had arrived to the
most alarming height. The Noble Earl then read an extract of
a letter from a gentleman in the county of Clare, on whose'
testimony he could depend, stating that the distress in that
county was. beyond all possible description : that starvation
was in all parts : that the Government, to whom repeated
and strong applications had been made, had yet done no-
thing ; that if it meant to do any thing it would come too
late, and that without some general aid it was' impossible to
know what might ensue. I 1 this were correct, was it not
monstrous, that in an empire which called itself united, whilst
English farmers were suffering from excessive produce, the
people of Ireland should be allowed to starve ? If it were
true that the Irish Government.had been applied to, and had
taken no steps to afford relief, and if the Noble Earl could not
contradict the assertion, a case would be made out, in which
their Lordships would be bound by their duty, to interfere and
to carry an Address to their Sovereign to 'call his attention to
the subject. The private subscription of individuals would
do some good • but it was only the ,interpotiition Of the Go-
vernment which could effectually remove the distress. The
Noble Earl might say that it was confined to a small part of
Ireland, but it was unfortunately but too well known how
soon famine might be followed by.pestilence, and then not a
small district alone, but the whole countryi would be involved
in desolation. He concluded by moving, that an humble Ad-
dress be presented to his Majesty, praying that he would order
copies or extracts of any correspondence which had taken place
between the Irish Government and the Secretary of State for
the Home Department, 'on the subject of the distress in Ire-
land, to be laid before the House.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL trusted that, the explanation
which he should give would bp satisfactory to 'the House and to
the country. There was no question more full of difficulty
than that of the Government interfering to supply proviiions
to the people. There was, he believed, no example of such
an interposition with respect to this country : Let their Lord-
ships consider how, if the principle were once established, it
might in future affect the regular mode of subsistence, and
check the exertions of private benevolence ? The open recog-
nition of the prin would be at variance with all notions vf
public economy. He would fairly say, that when he heard of
the state of things in several counties in Ireland, appearing to
arise from local causes, lie had been anxious that, if possible,
aid should be afforded without being made matter of public
notice and discussion in Parliament ; as it would be better to
act on the necessity .of the case than to recognize a principle
which, if once established, might prove the means, at some
'period or other, of considerably aggravating the difficulties
and burthens of the country. This was unfortunately not the
first time that similar aid had been required. It had been
wanted and given in 1817; and he should be ashamed if, when
such circumstances as those in which parts of Ireland were
placed, had come to the knowledge of Government, they had
overlooked the subject; or neglected to provide for the neces-
sities of the case. He was now able to say, not only that
measures would be taken, but that they had been taken in the
least objectionable mode possible, to apply relief to those dis-
tresses, and to prevent their recurrence till the ensuing crop,
f
or the procuring of which means had also been afford-
ed. He could enter at present into no further explanation;
but would repeat, on the authority of Government, that what
he-had stated had been done. ' With regard to the Address,
the Noble Earl proposed to move) he should have no objection
to agree to it when the proceedings to which it referred were
terminated ; but in the present state of the business, the pro-
duction of the correspondence would be attended with much
inconvenience.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE only rose to offer that me-
lancholy and unfor,unate testimony to the extent of the distress
existing in Ireland, which he felt himself bound to give. In
addition to that truly represented to prevail in the county of
Clare, he believed that more or less would he found in the ad-
joining counties. In the mountainous districts of the South
West of Ireland, where the population depended for their sub-
sistence on the supply of potatoes, distress prevailed in a de-
gree which might be equalled, but not surpassed in the county
of Clare. More than a month ago a communication had been
made to him on the subject, and he had felt himself authorised
to procure oatmeal from the neighbouring counties and to have
it retailed at lower prices. There was this feature in the pre-
sent distress, that it related to one branch of produce only.
There was therefore not the same difficulty in affording relief
from other kinds of produce as there must be if the scarcity
were general. The sufferings of the poor were experienced in
the face of an apparent plenty of all that could support life,
placed beyond their reach ; and he would assure all the asso-•
ciations formed for their, relief, that the most efficacious mode
would be to promote the consumption of those articles of food
standing immediately above potatoes, but still considered as
poor living in this country. Ireland was much indebted to
those individuals who had so nobly subscribed here for the re-
lief of her population ; though he should be sorry if this aid
should check the exertions of the local proprietors. To the latter
he ,would recommend' to give all the assistance in their power
on the spot, convinced as he was that-it would be more useful
than their subscribing in this country. He knew that all could
not be effected without the interference of Government ; and
whilst he wished, with the Noble Earl opposite, that it should
be exercised with caution, he also trusted that it would be ap-
plied in an efficacious manner.
The Earl of BLESINTON rose to support the Address
to his Majesty. The Noble Earl opposite talked of what Go-
vernment had done and would do, but the accounts from the
county of Clare stated that nothing had yet been done. Yet
in that county, it appeared from official returns, that 48,597 in-
dividuals were in a state of starvation ! This distress had not
a new origin : it had been increasing for two years. At that
period he had written to the Archbishop of Tuam, to request
him to subscribe towards a statue of the late King, but that
Prelate had replied that he wished all the money which had
been collected should be applied to the relief of the people.
Distress was not -exclusively felt in the South and West of
Ireland. In the county of Donegall there was no want of

food, it was true, but of money to buy it. Money and capital
were 'the thing wanted. If the people were fed, without
being provided with employment, mischief would ensue.
If it were wished to do good to Ireland, a large sum must he
given, 'at least live millions, two which should be distri-.
bitted immediately, and,the 'remaining three applied as local
circumstances and other times should require. •
Lord ELLENBOROUGH wished to know whether the
Noble Earl opposite could state at what period, and to what
extent, relief had been afforded ?

The Earl of LIVERPOOL could not answer the question
otherwise than by stating, that from the tirr~e•when his Ma-
jesty's Government had heard of the .distress in Ireland, they
had issued instructions to relieve it, and to apply the same
aid as in 1817.

The Earl of LIMERICK was disposed to trust the asser-
tion of his Majesty's Government that much had been done,
and still more would be done. Though the crop of potatoes
had failed in Ireland, there was abundance of other produce,
and nothing was more easy than to relieve the existing distress,
if money could be found to enable the poor to buy that pro-
duce. In the western and southern parts of the county of
Limerick much distress was experienced, but- in no other.
Feeling convinced that his Majesty's Ministers had done their,
duty, he should vote against the motion, if it was pressed.
Earl GREY conceived that the reasons on which the Noble
Earl, who had just sat down, founded his opposition to the
Address, were on the contrary.those which ought to have in-
duced him to support it. If it were true that his Majesty's
Government had taken timely measures, and done all that it
was in their power to do, nothing could be more satisfactory to
the public, and to the people of Ireland now suffering under
unexampled distress, than to see it proved to them that their
distresses had not been overlooked, and that whilst Mini-
sters renewed the Insurrection Act, suspended the Habeas
Corpus, and delivered them over -to all the severity of the
laws, they did all they could to check their dreadful misery.
Had such a state of things been ever heard in any age or coun-
try, as had been described to their Lordships to-night ?
Starving in the midst of abundance, which they could not
reach, on account of the failure-of a particular crop, the poor
of Ireland were in a worse situation than Tantalus. The ac-
counts from the country stated that nothing had been done,
and that relief would come too late. And yet the Noble Earl
who had last spoken was satisfied with the assurance that it
was in the contemplation of Government to adopt measures
of. relief. But what had been those measures ? The people
were perishing pn the highways, and nothing had yet been
done ! It was true that it was a delicate question to interfere
in the subsistence of a country ; but cases of necessity might
arise to justify that interference ; and when cases of a different
nature had arisen, the Noble Earl opposite had shown that Ire
knew the importance of losing no time in the adoption of re-
pressive measures. What was the motion ? To ascertain the
fact whether Ministers had or had not done their duty in tak-
ing measures to relieve distress. If they had done it, the pro-
duction of the Correspondence would be to their credit. If
they had not,. it would show a shameful neglect of duty which
would make it imperative on the House to interfere.
The Earl of LIMERICK explained.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH trusted that his Noble Friend
would carry his motion to a division. He was anxious that the
question should be sifted to the bottom. 'The existence of great
distress in Ireland was all that was known, and there was no
proof that any good had yet been done by Government, or by
the assistance of individuals. The Noble Earl opposite talked
of political economy, but if political economy prevented the
relief of millions of suffering people, he should consider it the
greatest curse to humanity. Instead of voting 350,0001. a year
for an additional force in Ireland, he should prefer voting that
sum for additional food. He wished the Government to ap-
pear in this transaction, and the principle on which it acted to,
be established.

The Earl of BLESINTON stated, that the principle on
which the Committee in the City acted, teas to send money
wherever local subscriptions had been formed in Ireland to
assist them: 'When 20001. had been raised, they sent 10001.
The Earl of DARNLEY expressed his intention of divid-
ing the House, if the. Noble Earl should not, on reconsidera-
tion, think that he owed to their Lordships and to the country
something•more satisfactory than his mere assertion.
The Duke of WE said, that as there had been
a deficiency in the crop of potatoes, but in no other the course
for his Majesty's Government to adopt, after having ascertained
that fact, was easy. It had only to send money to enable the
distressed to buy other food, which was in abundance, and to
supply seed in order to secure a future crop, and to prevent a
recurrence of the distress. Both of these had been done, and
he did not know what More could be wanted.

Lord HOLLAND wished to know the reason for this pro-
digious secrecy, if all this had been done ? But he also wished
to know whether it had been done in proper time?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, that the Noble Earl
should have his vote, if ho could mention the date at -which as-
sistance had been sent, and its extent.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that many weeks past in-
structions had been given to send relief to Ireland, but he *as
•not able at that moment to state the exact date.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE contendeJ, that without the
date the House would not know whether any thing had been
done to remove present and to prevent future distress. Famine
did not come on so suddenly ; and if the Irish GoVernment had
not informed his 'Majesty's 31inisters of its approach earlier
than some weeks ago, it had not done its duty.
- •
Their Lordships then divided :
Contents • 17
Non-ContentS 35
Majority against the Motion . . -18
FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS.

On return of strangers, the Marquis of LANSDOWNE was
found inquiring what objection the Noble Earl opposite could'
have to allowing the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund to at-
tend the bargain for the dead-money, and to take it ? There
was a clause in Mr. Pitt's Act emptiwering them to do so, and
he could not conceive why they should not do it, and thus
secure to the public the advantage which would result to the
contractors at the expiration of 45 years. Whilst we made sa-
crifices to relieve posterity by maintaining a Sinking Fund, we
threw an additional burthen upon that same posterity by the
present arrangement. Why then should we not make it in the
mode most favourable and cheapest to ourselves ? We had an
establishment able and safer than any other body to take and
execute the contract, why not use it for the public benefit ? In
this he expressed no opinion as to the propriety of keeping up
the machinery of the Sinking Fund; but he knew that the
Noble Earl thought it should be supported • and if it were to
be kept up, why not make it available to the public service in
a- manner which must ultimately increase its amount ? He
wished it were possible to introduce a short bill to enable the
Commissioners for the Sinking Fund to attend and to take the
bargains for the Dead Money. •His Lordship then moved for
a return of the number of Banks in England, consisting of three,'
four, or six, partners.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL had no objection whatever to
this motion. With respect to the observations which had fallen
from the Noble Marquis, he would say, that it was true that
there was a clause enabling the Commissioners of the Sinking
Fund to lend a loan to the country, but this was an optional,
not a compulsory clause, and it had always been left to the
judgment of Government during the whole of the war, to con-
sider and determine whether it was more advantageous to take
a loan from that Fund, or to obtain it from the public. He
recollected that at the commencement of the last war,
a Gentleman now no more had objected to a loan from the
public, conceiving the clause to be imperative with respect to
the Sinking Fund. It was not then explained that its nature
was entirely optional. In the greater number of caret during
the list war, it had been the general opinion; that it was more
for the advantage of the country to allow the Sinking Fund
to operate as it did in the market, than to apply to it for
a loan. It was not now his intention to enter 3nto the ques--
tion, as it must entirely depend on the nature of the bargain
which should be made. He and his Right Hon. Friend (the
Chancellor ,of the'Exchequer) were to hear terms, and had,
fixed in their own minds those which they thought should be
accepted. If.they could not obtain them, or any which they
conceived sufficiently advantageous, it would be their duty,
and it was their intention to rfuse. But if they obtained
those upon which they had fixed, he had no difficulty in
saying that they would be more advantageous than any
arrangement with the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund.
As to the hope expressed by a Noble Earl a few days since
(Earl Grey), that the House would not be bound by previous -
contract before it came to discuss the nature of the bargain
with any set of Contractors, he would state that in no case, even
in that of a loan contracted, by Government, was the House
bound to approve of -what had been done. It retained the
power of negativing such a contract or such a loan 'with-
out any breach of good faith. It was true that in such
cases a deposit was"made, but it lay in the Bank and was never