The Sun.
London, England, 1831-12-13 00:00:00

out of the necessity of the case, or proceeds as the's onta
nevus act of the Government themselves. - Feel;n? as I.
do, that the questions which we shall be called 1,70. to
dismiss are of the most vial importance, I am willing fo r
one to defer all observations, and to abstain from anythin
calculated to provoke discussion. I have but one feeli,g,
g
ind that is a feeling of grateful exultation of the escape
ts-e have had from the Bill of last session. We can
have but one feeling of deep and sincere gratitude to
those who have delivered us from that imminent danger._.
(Loud and enthusiastic cheering.) I confess that I for
one never fully appreciated that danger till I heard the
speech of the Noble Lord this night—l repeat, that we
never can be 'saflieiently grateful to those who have given.
us time for further deliberation, and further imptsiverrterit
in the Bill. Numerous are the calumnies that have 1)&14
put forth on this subject, hut this Bill is an answer' is
them all --(Loud and continued cheering.) It is to the
opponents of the late rneasute a most triumphant vindica-
tion—it is the noblest and most perfect tribute that could
be offered in favour of the perseverance and abilities with
which time for further deliberation has been obtained for
us. Almost every part of schedule A bas been changed,
and as to the details, there has scarcely been an alteration
made whith did not proceed from suggestions made at this
side of the Honsei The list derived from population is Doll'
to he abandoned. f.§.elletiele A is to be altered="the
sumed number of 56 notnitiatirm boroughs has keen e? en;
though the Noble Lord tels us if iS five ton many. 11;4.
thinks it is five too many, though he says he will
adhere to his arbitrary number of fifty-six--tadhlre tettlim:ra
to that nott'oet though the population returns es*te
his
that the number Might not to exceed fifty-one. Titer;
rights of freemen by birth and derviende are to be pr6ervet,-
the census of 1831 is to be gdopted instead of that of 1821.
!louses are now to he the test in borofightl, riot popttlatinn ;
and I think there is likewise ground for co'Pgratirlation its tire
change that has been made in the rights M voting haf
counties and cities. Further, the Comtnissioneti are to'
be dispensed with altogether. Here, then, are ni?!Tringz
but- the suggestions made from this side erfli,the Hou *?
and finally we have a fair sacrifice to the manes Of an
nsti-
to,uffameen,bideertsl GentPoarfralii
thisa
Gn Parliament trui,
estehs eaaairntelconotttioine, adoption
itri,';l,netnisdves,7l,lni which
;..aleh°a:t time

:hat they are still to stand at
_6si4,—(ln reply tO

an inquiry from Sir Robert Peel, . Lord' John 'Rua-
saell was here understood to intimate that the number

of the Irish Representatives was not to be in-
creased.) I think we ought to have laid before us the
Scotch and Irish Bills before we are called upon to come
to a decision respecting the Bill for England and Wales.

As to the 10/. qualification, I must be- allowed to say,
that whatever is done relative to it depends so much upon

the manner of the alteration, that one mode of retaining
it may be highly objectionable, while another may be di-
rectly the reverse. The proposition for voting by weekly
tenants was not adopted at first: it was subsequently in-
irodueed,-and now we find it is abandoned. The more I
reflect upon what has occurred, the more do I rejoice that
time fur deliberation has been obtained ; and I am sure,

when the House recollects we are engaged in framing a
new Constitution for the government of this country,
it will not grudge the few additional months that have
been spent in the operation. Why these alterations that
the Noble Lord now boasts of were not made in the Bill
last session it is not for me to say; at all events his
Majesty's Government had full opportunity of doing Gd
if they had thought proper; and I now rejoice, vt,liateef
my objections to the Bill still may be—l rejoice, both fol. 4.110'
.ake of toy own character and for the sake of the character
of the persons with whom I have acted, in this triumphant
refutation of the charges that were formerly brought
igainst us.—(Loud cheers.) I rejoice, Sir, in the delay
that has taken place, not only on account of the amend-
ments and improvements it has already produced in the
detail: of the Bill, but because I think that, after the se-
cond reading of this new measure shall have been carried,
by which the House will adopt the extensive changes front
the former Bill which are now propo,ed by the Noble
Lord, it is very likely Parliament will be inclined to in-
; toduce still further amendments.—(Cheers.) Another

,reit advantage that has arisen from this postponement of
the question is, that we shall. now he able to enter into
the discussion of it under circumstances of much less ex-
citement than formerly.—(Hear, bear.) If it be true
that in matters having a much less extensive bearing on
the general well-being and welfare of the country, it is not
fitting or proper to bring them into agitation in times of
public excitement—if it be true that even in such matters
as those which have for their object the regulation of the
science of anatomy—if it be true that, even in such mat-
ters as taking precautions against a system of foul and
unnatural murder, more disgraceful than anything that
ever characterised the conduct of savages—if, 1 say, it be
true even in such matters as these, that the excited state
of the public feeling is imperative against the discussion
and agitation of such questione—surely it is not too much
d
e
yenCedAnpcte
rojubtugthlnnaoaiutontr
country—is
ahi_convlsaideninisgodadutla noeiscolthibaenetdyrsoe:
b:b)lo_snemoproeitttitr;
euivaleabtedrjitreoe subject--the
ontsst .eh:thoahputotechlurdaaeli
demCunt :opicenmeunoriea-t
claimps to
,t ;a tata
cuoftontkiir:ociafothre
doninrdoaefdttrdosewit—ishu:e
ch
whenno
ur
son,
whatthea atun rdajoiticwedexhgucemrinrteeertidmht
the band
excitement.—(Cheers.)
ta.st—heb(eicescnhot
eur
eerdrmsiseibt;l:
trembling
egltdh‘rvelei
rejoice,
i:ecsxh tetht,ebetrohnafeeßarivlo:nii.: 1:00,-f;
alPhnaarutliament has enabled his Majesty's Government to bene-
fit by the suggestions that were then offered, and that it
will • enable us to approach the discussion of the principle
and the details of this new Bill with that temper and dis-
passionate feeling of which the subject, for its importance,
is so deserving. The Noble Lord, in his speech this even-
ing, has told us it is highly necessary we should come to a
speedy and satisfactory settlement of this great question_
that a great deal of extravagant hope exists out of door.
—that undue apprehensions have been encouraged—and
that there is no safe alternative left for us but to turn those
expectations into reality. It is possible that the Noble
Lord may be correct in what he has thus uttered ; but I
must confess, that Rs I listened to his words I could not
help recalling to my recollection the observations that I
heard fall from the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the
close of the session, r:ho told us that when the Govern-
ment first proposed this measure of Reform, they did not
expect that it would be carried—a speech that had excited
some wonder in my mind, and made me ask myself what
frail sort of Government this was, that had actually come
forward with a proposition without so much as the expec-
tation that it would be carried—(Hear, hear)—and it
must ever he a subject of regret to me, however opposed I
may be to the necessity and extent of this Reform, that
the same moderation and temper which have dictated the
speech of the Noble Lord this evening have not always
been pursued in the councils of the King since the first
originaticn of this subject. What may be the issue of this
question I know not ; but I for one believe, that I shall
best be discharging my duty by viewing it, not in its pre-
sent bearing, but in its ultimate effects; and if in my
conscience I believe that those ultimate effects will be at
variance with the welfare and prosperity of the country, I
feel that my right course will be the offering, perhaps reluc-
tant (because I am unwilling to provoke further agitation),
but, at all events, a firm opposition to the principles of the
Bill.—(Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—As to
what fell from me at the close of the last session of Parlia-
ment, and to which allusion has just been made by the
Right Hon. Gentleman, I beg to state most distinctly that
he has misunderstood what fell from me on that occasion,
and that I never intended to say that either the Govern-
ment or myself bad no expectation of carrying the question
of Reform when they brought it before this House.—
(Hear, hear.) What I did mean to say on that occasion
was, that from the impression which seemed to be made
by the statements of my Noble Friend when he first
brought the measure forward, the Government had ex-
pected that if a division had at that period been taken te
Bill would have been rejected—(hear)—but though thus
far is true, I beg entirely to deny that the Government
ever thought of proposing a measure which they had no
hopes of carrying. In order to ascertain • this point, the
motives that induced his Majesty's Ministers to bring for-
wand the late Bill should be considered. We did not take
that step in consequence of any excitement which we our-
selves had produced—(A laugh and cheers from the Oppo-
sition, answered by loud cheers from the Ministerial side)
—we took it in consequence of the long expressed and
opinion
(Criespi_nio of
tphoertoiopnpoosiftitohne,
with cheering from the other side.) There seems to be a
difference ofopiaion on that point : now I will admit that
when we carne into office, we certainly did expect that that
opinion would triumph ; and in that way we may have
been said to have c instil the excitement ; but on the other
hand, that that expectation and wish existed in the country
long before the formation of the present Ministry, no one
that will take the trouble to look back to past events can for
moment doubt. I entirely agree, Sir, with the Right
lion. Gentleman in thinking that this subject should be
Discussed calmly and deliberately; but I must say that
,he speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman—(Continued
cheers)—does not quite accord with his recommendation
—(Cheers revived)—for I hardly ever heard a speech
shish (though temperate itself) was more likely to excite
Meat in others, and produce more fierceness of debate.—
Cheers.) Toe Right Hon. Gentleman has told us that
'll the alterations which we hive made in the present Bill
ere alterations which we ought to have made last ees-