The Sun.
London, England, 1807-04-24 00:00:00

THE LOAN.

. Lord HAWKPSBU RY then moved the Order of the
Day for the Houst to resolve itself. into a Commit-
tee U4)011, thei Loaninterest Bill, upon which
- LORD AUCKLAND rose to animadvert upon
the :Iterations that 'were intended-to'be made in' the
.
system that.. h,ad. been adopted for raising the Sup-
..
-pi:es. These *alterations seemed to be In a great
=inrasvtretilt,.-rsult of.ohjeati'ons Made to theplan,
ty.persons who pretended that the. systena.must-in-
wive their total ruin. He chiefly::adverted to.a,Pe-
'tition that 44 TieZn.presentea by:a ,number olper-
*suns Siyiiitg
,thetp,seiNts.Ship Owners;. showing how
deeply the Shipping Interest' ,Xvuld Elb!ife6ted- by
cortttnuing tne.duties tonnage`
.I\?w,:if no bet-
ter founded ,was urged against the mea-
sur, of no weightyvhatsoever in' his
lie could Confidentry state tdr_t.he Honse,
perjod,.eßcept perhaps the year 1782, did
t the, de!,.eription alluded to amount. to
,;7,7,:11 a nnr:-.ber ,713 thv did at. the•preseht Moment.
.111C11 d:d 01T.se apprehetOons originate ?
As to the of; the•syStem; he v:as.cer-.
rain bettr.calauhnel either to
.or to:iinpreSs. the Elie-
iny with a •due icieA otiourittexionstble re,ources:
nriII()XMOS rcp'ied, that. the 'al-
.
teration., i')roHsed %.otil‘t have- Ito etft:d
weakening tee security oithe tletlitok;.- That •

if, on the =elation of peace, it slabuld be fo,:cid
necessary to contirktie„ the duties on tonnage,
.B,:e.
they might still be continued; but in his opinion less
inconvenience Would arise fioni the adoption of some
other-peons.'
Lord SIDMOUTH went over the greater Ott of
his own former financial proje&s. After which he
expressed his apprObatibn of the financial system of
theiiile-MiniSters ; at the same time- that he ap-
proved of the measure proposed by the preen. Chan,.
cellar of the Exchequer, and therefore should give
it his support.
Lord KINN.4IRP spoke in general terms in favour
\ of the late. Ministry, and es.pressed his entire aPpro-
' bation of their system of Finance.
Lord MULGRA FE made some pointed observa-
tions upon the etfeels which would hot fail to have
attended the system alluded to by the Noble Lord
who spoke last, had it remained as at first 'propoSed
in all its parts. 'He adverted to the ruinous system
adopted by AL Necker, in France, by which the ,
Supplies were raised for atime without laying on any
fresh burdens, and which led to the dreadful conse-
quences which'France and Europe bad since so much
to deplore. Ile (4d not , make this allusion under
any apprehension that the example of Necker could
ever be attempted to be followed in this country,
bdt for the purpose of keeping the example fresh in
the memory of the House.
_ _ _ _ _

Lord GRENVILLE, though he did not mean to
offer any Amendment which would lead to a dis-'
cession of privileges with the other House,. disap-
proved altogether of the alteration that had been
made in the Bill by the present Administration. The
tendency of-this alteration was materially to shake
the credit of the system, by limiting its duration. fur
the present, to one year, with an indire& intimation
that it would be suffered to fall entirely to the ground
after the expiration of that term. it was, he con-
tended, a breach of faith towards the Stockholder,
to limit his security to what it was reduced to by the
alteration in the Bill. The present:Ministers, while
in opposition; had represented the Property Tax as
the fittest to be continued, at least' to a limited
amount, after the Peace, and the Excise War Duties
as the mast unfit ; and yet it was those very Excise
Duties, which they thought most unfit to be con-
tinued, and least likely to be, produ&ive, that .they
assigned as the sole security for the interest of this
loan in the event of Peace. The clamour that had
been raised about eventual injury to the shipping in-
terest, if 'the Bill had remained unaltered; was
senseless and .mischievous. It was a -notorious fad.
that the shipping interest was in a progressive state
of improvement, and that its present prosperity was
beyond oily thing ever before witnessed. He believed
the alarm of the shipping interest being in danger,
was sounded like the other groundless and pet vicious
alarm of the church being
,iii danger, which was
spread abroad knowing it to be false and groundless,
for the purpose of promoting party objects.
The Earl of WESTMORLAND (to order) repre-
iented the introdualion of. the Catholic question ,as
irrelevant ;. and considered it as highly improper to
impute to his Majesty's Ministers that they had en-
deavoured to excite alarms, knowing 'Ahem to be
false and groundless.
Lord GRENVILLE knew too well what his right
as a Peer of that House authorised him to do,. to he
deterred or put out by the interruption ,of the Noble
Lord. In a queStion so ioaterially involving every
interest of the country, as that of the Supplies of.
the year, he was at liberty to touch on every
.portant point in the Administration of the Country.
As to the Noble Lord's supposition that. he accused
his Majesty's present Ministers of spreading an arti-
ficial' ;alarm of the Church being in danger',a little
refle6lion convince the Noble Lord, that in
charging that • to have. been done, lie could not pos.
sibly have meant to-make, his Majesty's present Mi-
nisters the objeEts of the accusation. It was inn-
possible, for instance, 'that such an accusation Could
apply to the Noble Lord himself; for he having,. in
1793, recommended from the Throne, as Lord Lieu_
tenant of Ireland, concessions of much larger extent
to'the Catholics of Ireland, could not possibly have
felt that the Church was in danger now from the
few inferior concessions proposed by the late Mini.
sters ; it was impossible that such an alarm could. be ,
felt by the Noble Duke at., the bead of -the present
Government, who had pledged himself to the ex-
tension of the whole of the Irish A6t to this country,
ihat AEt grarstingall military appointments but those •
of Generals on. the Staff, and every civil office but,
42. It was impossible that:others of the Noble Lord's
Colleagues,• who were equally pledged, could see any
ground for the cry that had been raised. But what
could be said for the present Chancellor of the Ex-
_chequer, of his address to the Eledors of North-
ampton, and the hand-bills circulated, in his name at
that place, the tendency of which was to mite the
most groundless alarms,.and to kindle the most mis-
chievous animosities.
He should not press the
House further upon the alteration introduced into
the Bill now under consideration, as nothing that he
could offer7would , induce their Lordships to 'rejed
.the alteration.

• 'Lord' II2..IRROWBY contended against the prin-
ciple, that a Chancellor of the Exchequer, in Down-
ing-street; or at the Treasury Chambers, could make
engagements binding on the Public, without any
possibility of the interference of the King, the Lords,
•or the-Comtnons.• This would be to deliver over
the whole •of the finances of the country into the
_hands of'a.single individual. He thought it too vast
a stride also •to attempt a financial arrangetncnt for
twenty years, withbut knowing any of the' events
-.which, ,in the course of that period, may render it
necessary to-have recourse occasionally to a variety of
_other systems.
Lord HAtf KESBUR Y defended the alteration
in the Bill. The only' wise and moderate course in
a pr6ceeding' of such moment to the• finances of the
country 'was
,to reserve the'full establishment of the
perpetual operation of the plan till it should have
received at least one year of consideration and' of
The attentin to, the interests of the Ship
OWners, whose apprehensions Were sincere, were
justified by' the importance of the• Shipping Interest
to the Naval power of the country, which was the
chief support of its power, its glory, and its safety.,
Ile did not wonder that the Noble Lord felt a little
sore, upon the general feeling manifested throughout
die country iii opposition sentiments Qn'anbther
measure. That feeling- yvaisincere iii iiifery insfalice:
aild no pains w hatstieVet • iad any ope case 'Veen
..• • •
taken to excite it. ‘, •
,•

Lord LAUEUDALE cited the papers 'circulated at

7,\Lrth3mpton, as proof ,that the present-Ministers,
or at least some of them, had been active in exciting
the alarm of the Church being in danger, an alartn
the tendency of which was more mischieoui than
, any that had existed since 1780. He contrasted
the conduit of the present Ministers with that of the
Ministers and other party leaders of that time, every
one of whom was ashamed to have any thing to do
with the fanatics who then raised the cry of No Po,.
pery, He and those with whom he was conneeted
had always kept aloof from stimulating the passions
of the multitude. He supported the new plan- of
finance as fit stood originally.
Vie Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE .felt
him-
self called upon to explain the amount of the Irish
oncessions of 1793, having been then Secretary
to the Irish Government. The Irish Statute would
!hew the,amount of the' Concessions then made, 'and
when it was proposed to grant any thing beyond that,
he hoped Parliament and the People would be al-;
ways ready to resist that concession. He 'thought
the new Plan of Finance the most beneficial ever
adopted ; but he thought it too much to establish it'
at once for 20 years to come, fie Wished for trial
and deliberation. •

Earl SPENCER dwelt at length on the proceed-
ings at Northampton, which had been the of
inflaming the mind's of the inhabitants of that' town,'
and, of setting them at variance with each other.
One of these hand-bills, circulated on the authority
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer; began thus :
" Popery or No Popery! that is the question." He
was glad to find that there was no man among his
Majesty's Ministers in that House dared attempt to
defend such a proceeding. He entered at large into
the pledges• the present Ministers had:formerly given
to the Catholics, and contended that the late Bill
was far short of those pledges.
Lord BUCKINGANISHIRE explained.
Lord ROLLA A'D argued atlength upon the
pains taken to excite a cry of " No Popery," and
contended that a country like this, pretending to su-
perior intelligence, would be, and had long been,
the ridicule of all the States of Europe, for protraa-
ing an illiberality which threw into the hands OffO-
reign Powers the talents of many of the ablest OtT.-;
cars, who were the chief support of the military
glory of other 'States,
,Protestant as well as catholic.
He supported the Plan of Finance as it originally
stood.

Lord HARROWBY, Lord. SPENCER, and Lord LAU-
DRRDALE, successively explained.
The Bill went through a Committee, the report to
be received to-morrow.

Adjourned at Twelve o'Clock.

ROUSE OF COMMOAT,

THURSDAY, APRIL 23.

Sir VICARY Gums (the Attorney -General) and
the Hon. AUGUSTUS DILLON took the oaths and
their seats..

Lot:d POR,CiIESTER moved, that John Colcleugh,'
Esq. should be discharged,' 'on account of ill' ealt
from further attendance on the Westminster Eiec
Lion Committee. This was. accordingly ordered, upon
Dr.Willan's declaration that it was necessary for him
to go to Bath.

A. Debate took place upon the Barnwell Inclosure
Bill, -which was resisted by Lords EUSTON -and H,
PETTY (Representatives of the University of Cam-,
bridge), as interfering with the accommodation of
the Students. The House divided, and the num-
bers were—For the Bill 4 8 —Aga inst it, 31.
The MASTER of the ROLLS presented a Petition
from the Trustees of the British iVluseutn,„ to enable
them to purchase the' Lansdowne Collection of
ManuscriptS.
The Petition, on .the Moiion of the CHANCELLOR
of the EXCHEQUEk, was referred to a S.ated Com-
mittee.

A new writ was ordered for the County of Louth,
in the room of the Right Hon. John Foster, who
had accepted the office of Chancellor of the Es.che-
quer for Ireland.

Mr. HOBHOUSE reported, from the Committee of
Supply. several Resolutions respeaing..the Pay and
Cloathing of the Militia of Great Britain and Ire-
land ; which were agreed to by the House, and a
Bill was ordered pursuant thereto.
Mr. BANKES, after stating the advantages 'Which
the Public had a right to expect from the British
Museum, moved for a Copy of the Regulations
which had been made for the better preservation and
arrangement of their Collection ; as also for the mOre
ready access of Strangers' and Artists to- the said
Museum, and of the numbers who had obtained
admission from the gth of February, 1805 (when
the last Return was made), to the latest time that
the Account could be made up.—Ordered.
Gen. FITZPATRICK brought in a Bill for the more
ready Payment of Half-pay and other Allowances
to Officers, the Widows of Officers, and Persons on
the Compassionate List.
The SECRETARY at WAR (Sir J, Puiteney) warmly
approved of and supported the Bill ; which was read
a first time, and ordered to be printed.