The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-05 00:00:00

be the last cause of an attack from that quarter. He had
found fault with them for following a precedent which had
been set by himself. He had attacked them because they had
in the King's Speech stated that the conduct of the present
Government of Spain was " prudent and vigorous," and ex-
pressed a hope that the Queen's " authority would soon be
established in every part of her dominions." The Right lion.
Baronet in doing so had adverted to the King's Speech of
1830; on which occasion the Government, of which he formed
a part, had been taunted with introducing an allusion to the
state of the Netherlands, and " the enlightened policy of the
King of that country."—( Hear, hear.) But there was no
similarity between the cases—there was no analogy in the
two instances.—( Hear, hear.) The " enlightened policy"
of the King of the Netherlands had succeeded in effecting
the separation of Belgium from Holland, therefore it was
neither wise, or prudent, or vigorous—( Hear, hear.) But
the policy of the Queen of Spain, which was adverted to
in the present Speech, was all this, inasmuch as it had almost
entirely suppressed insurrection, and would, he trusted, suc-
cessfully terminate the struggle. The Government of 1830
praised the policy of the King of the Netherlands as " en-
li,ghtened," though the effect :of it was the separation of
Belgium from his Government and dominion ; and with the
words still ringing in their ears they superintended a Commis-
sion which had for its object the perpetuation of that disunion.

The existing Government,,on the contrary, praise the policy
of the Spanish Government as "prudent and vigorous"
alone ; and it was moreover pursuing measures in conformity
with the treaties made between the two countries, and which,

no doubt, the Right Hoii. Baronet would rather not see acted
on. Spain should be the last country in the world se-
lected by the Right Hon. Baronet as an illustration of his
argument. It offered no precedent by which he could
support it. And if it could be shown, as it clearly was,
that the line of policy pursued towards that kingdom at
present was the same which had been pursued when the
establishment of the Bourbons there had been opposed by
England, there could be no question that the Government
was doing its strict duty in perfect accordance with the
precedent set by the Right Hon. Baronet, and that to do
otherwise would be grossly to neglect it. The Right Hon.
Baronet had said that some further explanation with respect

to the proposed increase of the naval force of the country was
necessary. He had said, and said truly, that in a country
like England, the commerce of which depended mainly upon
the strength of her naval force, if it fell below the naval force
of other nations there was danger to her best interests. Now
if it could be shown that such was the case—that the naval

force of England was not equal at present to that of other na-
tions—there could be no opposition on the part of the Right
Hon. Baronet to the suggestion contained in his Majesty's
Speech, and no jealousy on the part of other Powers if he

(Lord Palmerston) came down to the House to propose an
adequate increase in that important branch of the service.
The great object of every well-constituted English Govern-
ment should be the maintenance of peace, the upholding the
honour of their country, and the increase of foreign com-

coerce On these points he challenged inquiry for the pre-
sent Government. With regard to the maintenance of peace,
every effort consistent , with honour was made by them to
sustain and preserve it ; with regard to upholding the ho-
nour of their country, the best test that could be applied
to that point was the fact that in disputes where their own
honour was vitally concerned, other nations had volunta-
rily and spontaneously appealed to the mediation of Eng-
land, an occurrence not likely to take place if her honour
was 'tainted or her dignity defaced, a proof that if it was
not increasing there was at least no falling off. With regard
to the increase of foreign commerce, what had been stated
by the Hon. Member who seconded the Address was suffi-
cient to settle that question in their favour; it showed that
the old channels in which it circulated had not been
narrowed, while new ones had been opened, and disused
ones widened and again brought into operation wherever a
practicability of doing so existed ; and it also showed that it
had been increased by every fair and allowable means. It
was with great regret that he (Lord Palmerston) heard the
amendment of the Right Hon. Baronet. The Right Hon.
Baronet had urged as his main reason for proposing it, that
it was not fair or just to ask Hon. Members to commit them-
selves on the first day of the Session to a question the nature
of which they did not know, in reference to the subject of
Municipal Corporations in Ireland; or to pledge themselves
to a measure on which great difference of opinion might na-
turally be supposed to exist. He had said that Hon. Members
should be allowed to see the Bill to be introduced, and have
time afforded them to consider it in all its bearings, before they
gave any specific pledge—to be, in short, free and unfettered.
It was putting a forced construction and strained.interpretation
on the words Of the Address to say that it pledged Honourable
Members to any specific measure on the subject; and its
adoption would go to preclude the application of any of that
corporate controul to Ireland which was attended with such
beneficial results in England and Scotland. He was not at all
surprised at the support which the Hou. Baronet had from
many Hon. Members of that country, nor was he unpre-
pared for the opposition on the other side. Doubtless it
would not be at all agreeable to them to witness Ireland
keeping pace with England, or the town councils of that
kingdom emulating the conduct of those of England in ad-
dressing his Majesty, and expressing their confidence in the
Government which proposed and carried Corporate Reform.—
( Hear.) It was not at all unnatural that Hon. Gentlemen
who were so repugnant to these things in England should
wish ti. see equal opportunities fur exciting it extended to
Ireland. It had been urged against Corporate Reform for
Ireland that it would place increased power in the hands of
an individual ; but he would ask the House whether, when
justice alone was the question, personal cdnsiderations should
sway their decision ? It was not a ground for deliberation
when a measure of that nature was necessary whether it would
throw increased influence into the hands of this man or of that
man ; but whether justice should not be done without
reference to individuals, without fear, without favour, and
without affection. The House should not be deterred or
divested from doing justice to a great nation because in the
present circumstances of that people—circumstances, too, for
which the Legislature itself was in a great degree responsible
—power might fall into the hands of this individual or that in-
dividual. The Address, as it stood, did not pledge Hon.
Members to any particular form or measure ; it merely pro-
claimed the right of Ireland to justice, and asserted a prin-
ciple already recognized by the Legislature. He would wish
to see any Hon. Member who could sincerely say that popular
controul should not be applied to the municipal corporations
of England.—( Hear, hear.) If there were any such in the
House he wished him to come forward and state it broadly:
then he would know how to deal with the objection.—
( Hear.) It was idle, therefore, to say that the Address
pledged the House to any particular measure. There would
be as much opportunity and as much power to discuss all the
details of any Bill introduced on the subject as if no allusion
had been made to it at all. The only pledge the House was
called on to give was, that no distinction should be established
between England and Ireland ; that the same confidence should
be reposed in the people of Ireland as had been reposed in the
people of Scotland ; that they should have some controul over
the management of their own affairs ; that it should cease to
treat them es a proscribed class ; and that it should consider
them no longer as an exception to the rights of the British
Constitution.—( Cheers.) No man who entertained a just
view of the way in which the Government of a country should
be carried on could oppose the Address on these grounds ; but
if there was one who could, why then be would say, let him
stand forward and state plainly what his fee ling is ; we shall
then know how to deal with him, and we will fairly put it to
the vote. He (Viscount Palmerston) could easily anticipate
the result. He was one of those who thought that a Bill for
extending corporate controul should be brought in for Ireland.
He believed a majority of the House entertained the same opi-
nion. Every Honourable Member who did so would vote for
the Address as it stood ; and by so doing record his conviction
that injustice should be done no longer to millions of his fellow-
countrymen.—( Cheers. )
Mr. HARDY .denied that the question was whether Ire-
land should be governed justly or not--whether on principle
of freedom or otherwise? There was equal law in Ire-
land for all parties, and there was no tyranny except that " pes-
tilence which walked in darkness, and in secrecy did its deeds
of evil."—( Loud cheering.) In so far, and in so far only, was
it the question whether Ireland was to be governed on princi-
ples of tyranny or principles of freedom?—( Hear.) If the Ad-
dress were permitted to stand in the language in which it was
couched, it would distinctly pledge Hon. Gentlemen on his side
of the House to the adoption of a principle which they were
decidedly adverse to, and to which they had before shown
their antipathy. The Noble Lord opposite had taken great
credit to himself for the measure of Municipal Corporation
Reform which he had carried ; but before the Noble Lord
began to chuckle over his offspring he should see how it
worked.—( Hear.) He should ascertain how far it was an
improvement to substitute one form for another ; and the
Honourable Member who seconded the Address might be
appealed to for the purpose of ascertaining whether some
of the old corporations—Sheffield, for instance—of which
his father was an honoured member—were not quite as
respectable and altogether as efficient as any of the new
creations.—( Hear, hear, hear.) With respect to the ob-
servations of the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs,
he (Mr. Hardy) felt called on to say that his observations
were more calculated to injure than serve the cause he had
espoused. It had been asserted that the Government did not
come over to the opinion of the Hon. and Learned Member
for Dublin; but that they had acted independently. It was
a singular sort of independence, to say the least of it. They
had been told long before that the Whigs now were not
Whigs ; their present conduct with reference to the Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin satisfactorily proved it. That
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had advocated and urged the
adoption of the appropriation clause in the Tithe Bill of 1834;
and on that occasion the Noble Lord and the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, now in the other House, had opposed it; yet in
the very next Session the Noble Lord and the Government of
which he formed a part came forward and proposed it themselves.
If that was not going over to the policy of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin he (Mr. H.) did not know what
the words " going over " meant. In 1834 they had opposed
the Hon. Member for St. Alban's motion, and the Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin's suggestion ; yet, in 1835, 'they
adopted it, and brought forward a measure of which it formed
the principal feature. Anxious as he felt for every feasible re-
form in the municipal corporations of Ireland, he was by no
means prepared to give his support to men who exhibited so
much instability and such dereliction of principle. He was
resolved riot to give a premature pledge on the subject, and
he should therefore vote for the amendment. If the passage
in the Address which the amendment was framed to meet were
expunged, that would not .prevent Ministers from having the
power of introducing any measure on the subject they
chose in the course of the session. In objecting to the
amendment they were sacrificing the substance to trio form,
He would give every consideration and support to any mea-
sure which would have the effect of eradicating abuses in the
municipal corporatious of Ireland : but he could never consent