The Sun.
London, England, 1822-06-04 00:00:00

treae.( none) —They were told that this was, exactly the
• plan'as 'was recommended to theiti to tectog by Honour-
e:,',a.leLen'nere on the other side of the House, at e emu:once•
✓ of the Sessions. All that he coulksay upon:that head
.-.;:ts.,"tbat he k-ew that this plan would in no way at the end of
• 'yels. have diminished the Sinking Ftind, the recom-
lcr.lations t7t•.ey received from the other *side mere all in sub-
tare to make an open attack upon that Fund. The only re-
ttrablance it could be considered to bear to those considera-
tions was, that in the early years certain loans would be raised.
Rat these would affect the market, and not the Sinking Fund.
It shoald be borne in mind by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, in their
spczulaione on this subject, that there were two five millions.
There was one besides the Sinking Fund, and, therefore, for
the fature, all their calculations, and all their jokes, must be
ri.etle upon the actual existence of ten millions available, instead
of Ave:only. For the reasons he had stated he must vote against
the amenament ; and he contended that the plan of his Right
lionaFriend would realize all the expectations he had founded
upon it.
Mr. CALCRAFT said he really could not understand the
Noble Lord's two five millions. He did not however rise to
taunt the Chancellor Of the Exchequer for the complexion
laul shape hi 3 plan at present bore, which he thought no gene-
rous mind could do. Especially' ought Hon. Gentlemen on
his side of the;House to do so, since it was plain that in all he
had done he was crawling in a steady but sure progression to
'wbatabey had pointed out at the beginning of the Session.—
'nil would be found to be the end of the Noble Lord's two
five millions, and therefore they ought to be the better pleased
proportion as they saw the Chancellor of the Exchequer
'swerving from his original course. It was not altogether fair to
lay the-failure of the annuity scheme to the Chancellor of the
Ilketiequer. The-fact was, that it was the Noble Lord himself
olio announced it with .so much. confidebce to
-the House, that
bne could doubt that he had. the contractors all ready at
bark ; and the Chancellor of the Exchequer was only
to bight forward to announce the failure. The Noble Lord
said, it was not the same as the recommendation from that
'see of the House, and thatno infringement of the Sinking Fund
was involved in this plan. For his own part he must say that
he saw no difference betwixt applying 2,200,0001. to the re-
elentption of what it was wished to get rid of, and bringinginta
operation the Sinking Fund. •In the morning they were to
create a stock, .and in the evening, or: perhaps the same-hour,
to redeem it. Whatever effect it might have on the Sinking
Viola, he was satisfied of the effect it, would have in the way
of-diminishing. the burthen .of taxation. The Right Honour.
able Gentleman would not believe.at the opening of the Ses-
sion that the people would be happier and in better con-
beinglible to eat and drink and wear their shoes at
a cheaper -rate. :He would find, however, to his disappoint-
ment, that they would be much happier. He must support the
it incrultnent of his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose.
'Si; F. BLAKE abservedahat the Chancellor wanted to per.
saade them that after-subtrading two from five, five would still
rernain.-4/1 laugh:)--Hrcould not understand why the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer- should prefer his own complex machi-
nery to that of the Hon. Member for Montrose. By the former
7,260,0001. would be lost to the nation, .and by the latter only
:,00,0001.
The House-then
divided-
- For the Amendment - 54
Against it - 81
3fajority for the original Resolution —27
Upon the Resolutions being read a second time,
Mr. HUME proposed as an Amendment, that the Commis-
sioners of the Sinking Fund should be authorised and required
to advance to his Majesty's Treasury, out of the monies under
their controul, the-yeatly sum necessary to make up the amount
required for the payment of the _naval and military pensions,
when added to 2,800,0001. for the first fifteen years ; and that
for the following thirty years the Lords of his Majesty's Trea-
altry be ordered to issue from thetxchequer the sums as stated
ti -the tables of the annuities to the. Commissioners of the
iinking'Fund.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that all
woo had heard the Hon. Member's motion must premise that
It was substantially the- same as that upon which the House
had just come to a decision. He did not therefore think it ne-
cessary no Make any observations upon it. •
The question was then put and negatived without a division.
911 tl4e Resolution for.enabling the Trustees to sell any pot.-
:sot of the annuities being read a second time,
GRENFELL said, lie thought that was the proper
titte for him to propose his amendment. .The lion. Gentle•
mar: then moved that, the following amendment be added to
a:2 _Resolution :—" That it shall be 'lawful for the Commis.
aiOriterefor the Redemption of the National Debt, if they think
it expedient, to apply the monies-under their controul to put.
ehane part or the whole of any portion of the annuities as the
Truatees may find it expedient to sell, or to purchase any other
annuities.created by. order of Parliament." He hoped. that,
whenever any portion. of the annuities might be for sale, the
Clitsmissioners would be disposed to purchase.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER'did not mean
cti-pose this Amendment, but begged to state, that in agree=
izg to it, it was to be understood that the CoMmissioners were
to be loft entirely to their own discretion.
-The Resolution was then agreed to, So amended;

SALT TAX.
0r... the Resolution for the repeal of 13s. of the 15s. duty upon
erety.hushel of salt being read a second time, : . .
Sir JegEBRIGHT said he hoped the internal proposed to
elapse before the remission of this portion of the tax would be
aleidged, as the market during that period would be glutted,
whilst the ordinary activity of enterprise would, be checked in
anticipating the arrival of the period when the duty -wasto be
taken off.
'CURWEN thought it would be better 'to ••take offthi
whole of the tax. Agriculture would then be benefited, the
fisheries would thrive, and it would be taken as a boon to the
whole people. But from the partial relief proposed, none of
these objects would be accomplished. The Hon.. Gentleman
concluded. by moving as an amendment, that the whole of the
tax upjti salt be repealed from and after the ;sth October, 1822.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that.the
mouse had resolved on a particular plan ,to be enabled to re-
move a Certain pOrtion of taxation, and if they altered any
keel of that plan they must break down the whole system....a
If _dila amendment were adopted, they must either:rescind the
resolutions they had come to relative to the remission of
certain taxes in order to make room for it, or .what, in his
opinion, was infinitely worse, they must refer to the
sinking Fund--(Cheers from the Opposition benches.)—lf the
arguments "which were urged in support of such a step pos.
aeteed any weight at all, his case was stronger by.those argu-
ments ; for if a man contended his plan involved any infringe-
ment upon the Sinking Fund, it became them to adhere with
creator pertinacity to what remained.—(Hear, hear !)--If they
went further than he proposed in the remission of taxation,
they tritest necessarily intrude upon that Fund. The House
was -pledged to maintain the Sinking Fund inviolate, and it
could not adOpt 'any measure having a cant:Teri tendency. With
respect to the particular' proposition before,• them, he believed
that the remission of 13s. out of 15s. would give the consumer as
mush benefit as-though the whole I6s. were taken ofil' There
would be so littld remaining that for all • practical purposes it
nrnula,be imperceptible. The reduction in the price of salt from
17a.. or lßs. to 4se or Js, would operate so beneficially that the
remaining impost bringing in a revenue of 300,0001. a year,
-would not tie felt as a burden, whilst, by the amendment of
the Hon. Member, that sum would be lost. to •the public. He
rnuet observe also that the proposition. of the Honourable
ember came by surprise, as it would • have been more appro-
Friatetei have made it on the Bill for the. repeal of the tax,
than on theediscussion on the original arrangement. If the
ZI-lenntrable Member persisted in is motion,- he would have
his.decideeloppositidn. The relief to the .publie' would be sub-
'. atant;elly the some, as far as the constinier was concerned, as •
frOm a total remission of the tax. • The chrtY.on the article.of
alt. ;would then be less than it was at present in France and 'in
'the Netherlands. The House •could not agree to adopt the
amendment, whilst it continued firm in a determination to pre-
serve the publicneredit. „.. .
Net, BROUGHAM congratulated :the House on the new
wAiich bad .broken in upon the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer since toci:commencemeut of the Session. .He then toad
not see 1114:any
_relief would be given by a remission of taxa-
tion. He went further than the Noble. Marquis opposite, who
chid the people, for, an ignorant impatience for a relaxation of
taxation. The Noble Marquis dissented—then he supposed he
lied_ dreamed, that the Noble• Marquis had used-such words, al-
though ,a woe passing strange that with such particular coliocu-
tion, such -a sentence should be so generally attributed as it
was, and without foundation. However, the Chancellor of the
,'Exchequer went one step further than one, who should say
that the ,people were clamorous from an ignorant impatience
for a relaxation .of taxation. That Right Honourable Gen-
tleman, if he had not dreamed in that too, said-not only that
this removal of taxation would do no good, but that it would
do harm. This
.was a specimen of the practice of all nostrum-
dealers, wino went from one step to another,. each outdoing the .
last, till they Arrived, at absolute absurdity: Thus they saw.
advertisements for different kinds of supetlative paints---from
ilodorousepainn they went to.arotnatic paint, and so on. So the
Chaneellon.of, tbeExcheqner, from declaringthat remission of
taxes would an no good, went on to say that it might do possible
• Now, however, lie' admitted that the.' same measure
egould .confer .great: benefit on. the people. The Hon. and
faearned Gentlema,n,went on to contend, that.the retaining the
9.5. duty on salt, wes for the purpose of leaving a large propor-
tion of potronage t 9 the. Crown. For the collection of the sum
of '50,0091. of the salt tax in England, the expence.was 35,0001.,
and for • the cereetion of. 100,0001. only, in Scotland, it was'
$1,0001., beiog, °e.t.a all proportion, which should,have been
AS one to fifteen. e.This would be the disproportionate patronage
attached to the remaining 25., and therefore on. constitutional