The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-29 00:00:00

wailed upon to support his political limes but he had
never endeavoured to exert his power, such as it was, and
had never attempted to bring any of his family into Par
liaments It had never been an object of ambition with
him to establish a Parliamentary interest ; but had he
possessed it, let the extent be what it might, he should
have been glad to relinquish it for the sake of the great be-
neficial change the Bill before the other House was in-
tended to accomplish.—( Hear, hear.) He would, there
fore, leave that matter without farther answer, and would
proceed to notice the point of the boroughs to be disfran-
chised, and of the places to which the right of representa-
tion was to be communicated. A certain line had been
drawn, the object being to secure in all instances a suffi
cient constituency ; and here he must remark, that his
Noble Friend was much mistaken if he thought- that in all
cases the measure would give a most extensive consti-
tuency. The matter was to be regulated according to the
population returns, and its some instances fifty, sixty.
seventy, or eighty voters would be the amount, unless ad-
ditions were made to raise them, as was wisher', to about
three hundred. Boroughs would be divided into two
classes—the incurable and the curable. The incurable
were to be disfranchised ; and, fur the curable, it was
hoped that such an addition would be made to the elective
body, and such a public spirit introduced as to prevent
corruption and misconduct in fiateres Then came the
question, what new places ought to be embraced by a mea-
sure of the kind ? Here he begged leave to recal his
Noble Friend's recollection to the assertion he had hazarded,
that in no part of the Bill could he find a recurrence to
any ancient principle. He (Lord Durham) asserted,
both with regard to the enfranchisement of large towns,
and to the extension of the right of voting to 101.
householders, that the Bill did recur to ancient. principle.
—(Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend hod mentioned the
borough of Bossiney, and other) of that description,
which had been created in order to strengthen the bands
of the Crown and Nobility. He (Lord Durham) ad-
mitted, that such had unquestionably been the fact, at the
period to which his Noble Friend had alluded ; but he
might to have gone back to a much earlier date, if be
wished to recur to ancient principle. That ancient prin-
ciple had been laid down most distinctly and unanswer-
ably, by a writer of the highest authority, who had been
cited by his Noble Friend, Lord John Russell He trusted
that the House would bear with him while he read the
passage, because upon it he was willing to rest the vindi-
cation of the course taken by Ministers. " Things of this
world (said Locke, in the 13th chapter of his second book
on Civil Government) arc in so Constant a flux that
nothing remains long in the tratne state. Thus people,
riches, trade, power, change their stations, flourishing
mighty cities come to ruin, and prove in time neglected
desolate corners, whilst other unfrequented places grow
into populous countries, filled with wealth and inhabi-
tants.
i But things not always changing equally, and pri-
vate interest often keeping up customs and privileges,
when the reasons of them have ceased, it often comes to
pass that in Governments, where part of the legislature
consists of representatives chosen by the people, that in
tract of time this representation becomes very unequal and
disproportionate to the reasons it was first established
upon." After commenting on the absurdity of places
without inhabitants returning Members to Parliament, the
same great authority proem-led thus :—" Salt's poptili
supreme lee is certainly so just and fundamental a rule,
that lie who sincerely follows it cannot dangerously err.
If, therefore, the executive, who has the power of convok-
ing the legislative, observing rather the true proportion
than fashion of representation, regulates, not by old
custom, but true reason, the number of Members in all
places that have a right to be distinctly represented, which
no part of the people, however incorporated, can pre-
tend to, but in proportion to the assistance which it affords
to the public : it cannot be judged to have set up
a 'tow legislative, but to have restored the old and true
one, and to have rectified the di-orders which succession of
time had insensibly as well as inevitably introduced.—
(Hear, hear.) Upon this principle, and upon no other,
had Ministers proceeded; and they had enfranchised the
largest and most populous towns of Great Britain accord-
ing to the population returns of 1821. He now came to
that part of the question which had inspired his Noble
Friend with so mach alarm—the communication of the
right of voting to 101. freeholders. The individual case his
Noble Friend had adduced of one of his own neighbours,
proved that he was a very good master, but did not prove
that his neighbour ought not to possess the right of voting.
The House of Commons had formerly passed a resolution
that where no custom by charter of incorporation
existed, the right of franchise was in the householders ;"
and the present measure did not go farther than the reso-
lution of the House of Commons, nor adopt any principle
unknown to the Constitution.—(Hear, hear.) According
to the tax-office returns, as far as they were correct, the
number of persons in England and Wale=, rated tohouses of
10!. a year and upwards, was 378,786, and of these only
116,000 were houses of rents between 101. and 15/. a
year; therefore, less than one-third of the constituency
consisted of the lowest description of voters. The total
population of England and Wales was fourteen millions.
In Scotland there were 36,700 of such a rent as to give
the occupier a vote, of which only 17,900 were of a rent
between 10/. and 151. a year. Hence it was obvious that
the most gross mistakes had been made regarding the sup-
posed amazing increase of the constituency under the pro-
posed measure. So far from granting universal suffrage, it
might be said with much more justice,that it ball not granted
it sufficiently. How had the Noble Baron attempted to show
the extent to which it would confer the right ? But refer-
ring to the case of Liverpool, wherehe maintained that there
would be 25,000 persons entitled to vote,when the fact was
that there were only 19,000 houses of above 10/. a year
in the place. He now came to the advantages of the mea-
sure, and among the foremost would be the laying that
spirit of discontent which some urged was abroad, the ob-
ject of which was to destroy the House of Lords, and to
put an end to the monarchical form of Government in
this country. If any such disposition existed, which he
(Lord Durham) (lid not believe, where could the King or
their Lordships look for surer or firmer friends than
among the middle classes—the ten-pound housekeepers ?
Supported by such a body, the enemies of the Peerage, or
of the Monarchy, would soon meet a signal and disgraceful
discomfiture. In his conscience he believed that no such
spirit existed, and he was persuaded that the lower orders
were most sincerely attached to the Monarchy and to the
maintenance of the three estates—Kings, Lords, and Com-
mons, as the sources of their welfare and security; of all
the nations in the world, the lower orders of England
would be least disposed to change either for a theoretical
republic or a pure despotism.— (Cheers.)—The object of
the Bill was to leave the Peers in possession of all their
privileges—the Crown in the enjoyment of all its prero-
gatives—but to give the people at large that share in the
Government, of which, by the lapse of time and the pro-
gress of corruption, they had long been deprived. It
interfered with no existing right but in rotten boroughs.
The property of nominees, and all other voters, even bur-
gesses and pot-wallopers, were allowed to preserve their
rights as long as they lived, so that the constituency would
be gradually and daily improved. As little injustice as
possible had been done, and as much good as possible
accomplished. His Noble Friend had made a sarcastic
reference to the power to be reposed in the Privy
Council ; but the Ministers had chosen that body only
because they thought, from the rank, talents, and situation
of its Members, it would he above suspicion, and could
not be charged with impartiality in its decisions, or
with being operated upon by the influence of the Crown
and Government. He now come to the gravest charge—
that the measure was revolutionary : in no measured
terms it had been charged that the Bill was revolutionary,
and that its tendency was to destroy the Constitution, and
to put an end to our present happy form of Government.
He (Lord Durham) was not to be scared by the use of a
few hard words, and until lately he had always heard the
term revolution connected with the epithets happy and
glorious—the happy and glorious revolution of 1688—
(Hear.)—Why now, for the first time, was it to be
looked to with terror and aversion, or why now, for the
first time, was the glorious revolution of 16S8 to be for-
gotten, and the French revolution of 1789 only to be re-
membered ? Where was the analogy between this mea-
sure, or what was it likely to produce, and the French
revolution ? The people of France, forty years ago, rose
and massacred their superiors because their reasonable re-
monstrances were contemned—their just claims refused ;
they did not commit these acts in the exultation of success,
but in the recklessness of despair; and it was to prevent
such a dreadful crisis in this country that the measure of
Reform was introduced. The people of Great Britain
made certain demands—those demands were found just ;
and to comply with them would deprive the enemies of
our happy form of Government of the best means of at-
tack. Instead, therefore, of destroying the Constitution,
the Bill would consolidate and strengthen it, and rally
round it in an impregnable phalanx of supporters. Re-
curring to the glorious revolution of 1688, he might ob-
serve, that it was made a matter of charge by Lord Boling-
broke, that the great error at that period was, that the
independence of Parliament had not been adequately se-
cured : the measure before Parliament provided a remedy
for that defect. It was singular that the chief opponents
of this plan had been the main supporters of the Ro-
man Catholic Relief Bill. That relief haul been most
wisely afforded—it was not only reasonable and expedient,
but most strictly just to admit the Roman Catholics to a
share in the Constitution ; and the result had been already

iiighly besn-ficial in allowing new Members of great weight
and t-dents to take their seats in both Houses of Pailia-
ment. That measure was a great change—an important
improvement in the Constitution ; but surely it was hot
for those who had advocated it now to say that no other
change—no other improvement ought to be attempted.
Having thus gone through the principal arguments again,t
the Bill, he would merely say that Ministers had not the
slightest objection to the motion of the Noble Lot i
(Wharncliffe.) On the contrary, they wished that the
fullest information should be laid before the House, for the
more the subject was canvassed the more the necessity for
the Bill would he demonstrated. Ministers had been ac-
tuates' by no desire for change : they were only desirous
to revive and restore. They were anxious that the Crown
should possess all its just prerogatives—the House of
Lords all its undoubted privileges; but they were anxious,
too, that the rights of the people should be understood
and established. Far from wishing to diminish the
'plendour of the Crown, they were endeavouring to give
it fresh lustre, and to add to it another jewel, eclipsed in
brilliancy b'y none it already possessed—stile love and
confidence of a fairly represented and well satisfied people.
—( Hear, hear.)
Lord WILVIINCLIFFE explained.

The Blake of RICHMOND referred to what had been
said regarding the protest he and others had signed against
the disfranchisement of 150,000 forty-shilling freeholders
in Ireland, and contended that it was not consistent with
his support of the Reform Rill, which had for its object the
disfranchisement of corrupt boroughs. He had objected
to dept ive the freeholders of Ireland of their rights, be-
cau,e they were to b! the innocent victims of a hard law,
igainst whom no misconduct had been established, and
who had just:emancipated themselves from subserviency
and bondage to their landlords. He supported the dis•
franchisement of rotten boroughs, because their guilt was
undeniable and their corruption admitted. He had pro-
te ted against the disfranchisement of the Irish forty-shil-
lim,r freeholders, because they were condemned unheard;
and he supported the Reform Bill, because after having
been heard by the ablest advocates, the Members for Tam-
worth and Boroughbridge, the Members and nominees of
rotten boroughs had been convicted of being unfit longer
to enjoy the privilege they had so grossly misapplied.—
The last clause of his protest had stated his " willingness
and anxiety to correct proved abuse." The abuse here was
proved, and he would do his utmost to correct it. The
charge against him of inconsistency was therefore merely
empty and futile. As to the general principle of the mea-
sure, it seemed to him no more unwise or improper to cor-
rect defects in the representative system, than it would
be in the Commander-in• Chief to correct defects! in
the military system of the country. Old Sarum, Corfe
Castle, Gatton, Westbury, and Wareham, ought to be
placed upon the worn-out and superannuated establish-
ment, and their places supplied by the full-grown man-
hood of Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, and Manchester.
He would not detsin tiseir Lordships any longer. He
would only say he hoped their Lordships would not refuse
their sanction to a Bill which was the offspring of long
deliberation—the result of the reflection of au unanimous
Cabinet—and which would soon come before them. He

trusted that they would not refuse their sanction to a mea-
sure which must have the effect of uniting the hearts of
all his Majesty's subjects, which would increase their re-
pect for, awl their confidence in Parliament, and their
affection for their Sovereign. Their Lordships, he was
sure, would not refuse their sanction to a measure which
satisfied the just expectations of reasonable people, which
would give permanent security to property, and perpetual
stability to the throne.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY briefly defended
himself from the charge of inconsistency made against
him by the Noble Duke. If he were inconsistent, it was
not because he had been a Whig, and had now become a
Tory, nor yet because he had been opposed to the Catho-
lics, and had now become their friend. Fie bad not, like

the Nob e Duhe, joined the Whigs, whom be 11.1 d always
opposed.—(flear, hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE only wished to con-
gratulate their Lordships on the probable results of this
measure, and be was sure their Lordships would not depart
from their usual line of conduct, and now set themselves,

for the first time, in opposition to the people. Consider-
ing that their Lordships had beeen specially summoned,
and that their discussions had a great influence, or ought
to have, on public opinion, which it was their duty to
guide, he must say that he thought that night one of the
most disgraceful for their Lordships which he ever remem-
bered. He did not think it necessary to eulogise the de-
tai!‘ of the EN, or state his reasons for supporting it. He
should be prepared, when their Lordships came to vote
upon the measure, to justify his conduct, and showed, that
in following what he considered the line of his duty, he
had swerved from no principle he had ever adopted. He
meant certainly to support, and he hoped their Lordships
would also support a measure which had been received
by the unanimous acclamations of the people, and was
sanctioned by the House of Commons and the King's Go-
vernment.—( Hear.)
Lord PLUNKS FT rose to address their Lordships ;
hut speaking with his hack to the Bar, and in a much less
animated manner than he was wont, he was very imper-
fectly heard. We understood his Lerd•hip to say, that
the present was certainly a very inconvenient time for dis-
cussion, and he would not then take the liberty of address-
ing their Lordships, if it were not that he was afraid of not
having another opportunity of delivering his opinion on
the subject. He could not say, in approaching and consider-
ing the question of Reform, that momentous question, that
he did not feel a considerable degree of alarm and dread. He
felt convinced that the plan would make a very important
change in the House of Commons; but he must at the
same time own, that he felt himself relieved from alarm
when he found that the Bill was to r -store what was ori-

ginall• considered as the Constitution of the country. It
was at first stated that the measure was calculated to in-
troduce a now system ; but, after a short timo, that enun-
ciation was abandoned. At first it was stated that there
was no necessity for any Reform, and it was now four
months since that opinion was announced. It had been
persevered in till nearly the end of a seven days' discus-
sion, and had never been formally relinquished. At the
close of that period, with a tardy candour, or he might
call it a reasonable prudence, it was admitted that all Re-
form was not revolutionary. The principle, then, of Re-
form was no longer knocking at the outer door and re-
fused admittance—it had been admitted within doors ; and
its demands, it was admitted, were not altogether unrca-

sonable. Those who did not agree in those demands did
not deny them altogether—they only wished to avoid
prompt payment, and asked to pay by instalments. He was
at a ►oss to understand how Noble Lords and lion. and
Right lion. Gentlemen meant to meet the question under
these circumstances. He had not heard of one person who did
not agree thatßeform was justand proper, only they quarrel-
led with the degree and extent of the Reform proposed. They
abstained, nevertheless, from stating how far they were wil-
ling to go. The Noble Lord who had introduced the question
with great ability and, he would add, with great fairness,had
employed a tone in discussing the subject, and made ad-
missions which were not calculated to obtain for him the
support of these Noble Lords who sat around him, and he
had not found a seconder.—(Hear, hear.) That Noble
Lord had stated that the claims of the people were irre-
sistible—(hear, hear)—and that some degree of Reform
was absolutely necessary. The Noble Lord had referred
to the opinion of Mr. Canning, but he did not think the
supposition of what the opinions of dead men might be
were they now alive, ought to guide the opinions of living
men. How could he, or any man, say that if Mr. Can-
ning were now alive, his opinion would not be changed
like the opinion of the Noble Lord ? and how could he
say that Mr. Canning would not now think some Reform
necessary. The Noble Lord, who was warmly attached
to Mr. Canning, was as much opposed to Reform at one
time as Mr. Canning. They ought, therefore, to consider
the nature of the question before them, and not endeavour
to guess at the opinions of those who were not alive to
speak for themselves. 'What then did he prove ? Why,
that the persons who were lately at the head of the Go-
ment of this country, of whom lie wished to speak with
great respect, particularly of the Noble Duke who was then
at the head of that Government—they found that these
people—and he did not sly it as exciting feelings of degra-
dation—he found these gentlemen obliged to resign the
Government, and obliged to resign it because they could
not resist the pressure for Reform. To that pressure the
present Government had acceded ; and now their oppo-
nents ' pressed on them because they had taken up the
principle of Reform.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Under these
circumstances, what was to become of the country? Did
the persons who resisted, under such circumstances, the plan
of Reform, look at the consequences? If those who op
posed this Bill as going too far had some safe or practi-
cable plan of Reform of their own, why did they not bring
in a Bill of their own? Those who thought that this mea-
sure was going too far, ought to lay their own side by
side, that both might be judged of. Was it to be ex-
pected that Noble Lords, who had been distinguished
through their lives for supporting Reform—who had de-
voted their lives to the subject—was it to be expected that
they should give up their plan ? Were they, in power, to
abando❑ the principles for which they had contended in
Opposition, and cover themselves with disgrace ? His
Noble Friends were accused of exciting the public; but
the people hail not been excited—they had been quieted
by agitating this measure. If they abandoned ther plan,
and retired from the Government, they would not only

cover themselves with disgrace, but they would prepare a
more arduous task for their successors than ever was im-
posed on them, for they would destroy all confidence in
the Government and in public men. There would be no
means left of governing the country, and it would he
plunged in all the horrors of anarchy. He, therefore,
felt himself much relieved from the embarrassment of
making a choice. There was a time of great public ex-
citement : the vessel of the State, deeply laden, was ex-
posed to violent storms—the pilot had abandoned the
helm, giving up the vessel to the fury of the tempest; at
that juncture his Lord seized the helm ss ith a steady hand ;
he was an experienced pilot ; the crew had confidence
in him, and he pointed out a port into which he purposed
to conduct the vessel. Every honest man was bound to
assist him.--(Cheers.)—lt was an additional recommen-
dation, too, that he was directing the course to a well-
known haven, and did not purpose to explore any un-
tried, and perhaps dangerous, shores. He might be
content with having made these few observations, but
he could not avoid troubling their Lordships with a few
observations on some of the topics which had been urged,
not to reject, but to damage the measure. It had been
charged with hieing revolutionary, which was a most offen-
sive abuse of terms; but that charge was now abandoned.
It was then said, " if it is not a revolution, it is a great
and extensive change." Suppose it is a great and exten-
sive change, does any pet son mean to say that great and
extensive changes are unconstitutional? Those who said
that mu-t have been very inattentive readers, and very
unacquainted with our history, which afforded us many
examples of remarkable changes when the Constitution re-
claire(' them. He found the people of England at all times
clinging to one great principle; the polar star which
guided them at all times—at least through a period of one
thousand years, during which the Constitution hail been
preserved—was the principle, that it was the people's
birthright that the freedom of their persons and the en-
joyment of their property was not to be injured or affected
but by their own consent. They bad at all times given
effect to that great principle. That was the basis of their
free Government, and that principle all the rules and re-
gulations, which we e the offspring of times and circum-
stances, were intended to carry into effect. They never
had the folly to say that this great principle should bend
to rules and regulations, but they always adapted their rules
and regulations to this principle. Nothing could be more
revolutionary in relation to this great principle than to
adopt some stickfast resolution, which would prevent this
principle from being at all times acted on. Looking at
facts, did not our history abound 'with great changes ?
Was not the Reformation, which altered all the pro-
perty of the church, a great change—a salutary change
indeed, but a great change ? Was not the Act of
Henry VI , by which the great body of the freeholders was
excluded, and the franchise conferred on those who held a
freehold of 40s. a great change? What did their Lordships
say to the Union with Scotland, which altered the whole
Parliamentary Constitution of the country ? Or what did
they say to the Union with Ireland ? Were not these
great and extensive changes? He could enumerate many
more changes, but he would content himself with advert.
lug to that last and great change which admitted the Catho-
lics into the bosom of the State. These were all great
and rapid changes. What would their Lordships say to
the King's power and prerogative to issue writs for new
places ? That was a permanent machinery for perpetual
change. That power had been, perhaps, unduly exercised
and there had resulted a great abuse ; and were, they not
to exercise the prerogative of P,rliament, and get rid of
that :those ? Those who thought such an improvement was
contrary to the Constitution, must have read history less
as statesmen, less with a view to the institutions of the
country, than with the curiosity of antiquaries. They had
not searched into the mind of history—they had not sought
to understand the legend engraved on it—they were ena-
moured exclusively of the rust.—(Hear, hear.) There
had been, then, great changes when great objects had
been to be obtained ; and what was the object now ? He
admitted it was to make one important change, but a greater
change had taken place in the state of the country since
the revolutions in 1688, than in all previous time up to the
conquest. Manufactures and commerce had grown up,
and the middle classes had become of importance. That
class now possessed intelligence and wealth, and were as
well able to judge of State matters as their Lordship.—
The spread of light and intelligence among the people was,
he knew, considered by some people an evil—not by him ;
for when men were instructed and intelligent, they were
obedient and well-behaved. These classes were now de-
manding their abate of the Constitution ; and was it not
better to unite them to that Constitution, than to make
them the enemies of it ? He recommended them to purify
their institutions, and to satisfy the intelligence of the
people. It was said that ours was an admirable Constitu-
tion, and worked well. That be admitted ; but it worked
well, and was admirable, in spite of the rotten borough
system. These were the accidents of our Constitution.—
The Reform Bill was intended to do away with these acci-
dents, and retain only those essentials which were required
for the well-working of this admirable Constitution. Hia
Lordship concluded by apologising for having addressed
their Lordships, and on sitting down was cheered.

The LORD CHANCELLOR—He owed no little
apology to their Lordships for troubling them with any
further discussion of this subject under the existing cir-
cumstances at this late hour of the night, but he still
more owed an apology to his Noble and Learned Friend
who preceded him, when he rose to say anything after
him, before there was even a shadow of reply to his clear,
energetic, argumentative, and unanswerable speech. But
although he agreed with the Noble Viscount, who was a
great authority on these subjects, and with some of those
who spoke after him, that it was not necessary on the
present occasion to go minutely into the details of the
measure, yet he could in no way admit that it was any
way unbecoming or improper in him to take this oppor-
tunity of stating his sentiments on the Bill generally, and
on its particular parts. The Noble Lord who opened
the debate felt himself compelled to admit, in the course
of his argument, that the measure was supported by the
petitions of all classes of the community, which came
pouring in upon us in boundless variety, and in countless
numbers, almost all of them expressing the most ardent
desire that their Lordships should strenuously support the
measure, and speed it to the foot of the throne. No dis-
cussions had taken place on the presenting of these petitions
without again debating the subj ct in that irregular and
incidental manlier; but still the discussions went on, and
the protests were made. Still the opponents of the mea-
sure discussed and protested, but repeated that it was
irregular to enter upon a debate of this grand question
merely on the presentation of petitions. " Wait (they
said) till the opportunity comes ; stay till the subject
comes regularly under discussion, and then we shall have
the advantage of that period when our mouths shall be un-
locked—when our mouths are no longer shut—when
there shall be nothing to chill our ardour, or to blight
our genius—then we shall rush to the arena, and meet us
who dare."—(Hear, hear.)—Accordingly a movement
was made by these expert tacticians, and the Noble
Lord who commenced the debate, gave a notice for him-
self and others, that they would bring the subject in
a regular shape under discussion. But lo ! it was with-
drawn. How happened that? More petitions were pre-
sented, and more conversations took place—additional pe-
titions came, and additional irregul an ties followed ; but
still they kept on the reserve. They would not enter into
the discussion, but represented that they would keep the
feast on the feast-day. But finding that this would not
answer the purpose, another notice was given, and then
every one asked, " How is this, that having made your
escape out of the jaws of the lion, meaning the friends of
the measure, into which you bad so incautiously almost
fallen—how is it that you venture again into such imme-
diate danger ?" The answer was, that the plan of keep
ing aloof might be carried too far, that petitions upon pe-
titions were still pouring in upon Parliament, and that it
was necessary to have a debate. Well, the notice was
given. The debate was of their own seeking. The Mi-
nisters did not seek it, although they were anxious for it,
and glad that it was soon to come. They spoke of pre-
mature and unwanted discussion ; but if it was a prema-
ture and unwanted discussion, it was of their own seeking.
Why, what has this House been about almost the whole of
this Session? What had their Lordships been discussing
all along but measures which had come into the other
House only, or those which had not come at the time into
Parliament at all? They had been discussing time after
time the duties on timber. They had been employed re-
peatedly in discussing the measure of Reform before it had
been brought into the other House of Parliament. Nay,
they had even employed themselves—did not the Noble
Viscount's hair stand on end with horror ?—they had been
employed in that House in discussing taxes, not only before
the Tax Bills came into that House, but even before they
were brought into the House by the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer. But to say that a discussion was unwanted on a
motion of their own seeking for the purpose of discussion,
was truly a most extraordinary proposition, after what had
taken place in that House in course of the present Session.
But what was the subject of the notice ? It was a no-
tice of motion for the production of papers. Was the
production opposed? Nu; it was intimated that there
was ❑o intention to oppose it. However, the day came,
" big with the fate of Cato and of Rome ;" and the Noble
Lord who gave notice of the motion made his speech ;
but then his troops, instead of making a movement in
echellon, filed round and round him, and were glad to call
in the aid of the squadrons on the cross benches. So at

last they—the Ministers—were reduced to a situation in
which it did not often happen to a Ministry to be placed,
that of not finding any one to encounter. They had been
looking out with the utmost anxiety for the sport, they
ad beaten the bushes till they were tired, but not a
single head of game was started—not a single point
had they had ; and yet, after the speech of his Noble
and Learned Friend who spoke last, it could not
he said that the bushes had been unskilfully beaten.—
_ .

But nothing could be found—and so, after this formidable
note of preparation, he was at last reduced to the com-
bating of a shadow, and to beating the air ; and under
these circumstances it would not be expected, that, as the
case stood, he should enter upon the discussion of the sub-
ject, as he might have done if there had been any thing
like an elaborate debate. But he felt himself called upon
to make a few observations. In the first place, he wished
to vindicate himself and others from the imputations that
had been cast upon them with reference to the dangers with
which the measure was likely to be attended. At all events,
he had to congratulate the friends of the measure on one re-
markable circumstance—he meant the change of position
which had taken place on the argument on this subject,
between them and their antagonists. He remembered
well when there was nothing which operated as a greater
difficulty on the friends of Reform, than to answer the ar•
guments of those who opposed them, when these latter ob-
jected, that not one of the friends of Reform agreed with
another as to what that Reform should be. This was the
strong position taken by the opieonents of Reform. There
was no uniform plan of Reform among its advocates ; but
each had his own plan ; and this was the great argument
of the late Mr. Canning, who knew well how to avail
himself of the weak points of the case of those to whose
views he was hostile ; and who, as was well known, was
an unqualified, and, for the most part, a consistent adver-
sary of Reform. But here was a mt.asure of Reform in
which the whole of the Ministry concurred, and which
was supported by the whole of time country, which che-
rished and fostered this child of its adoption, throughout
its whole extent and arrangements, without standing upon
cytious and trifling objections. This was the Reform
of the whole of the Ministry and of the country, and it
was impossible now to assail them on the ground of
discrepancy, as had been done o❑ former occasions. But
what was the argument of the enemies of the measure,
and in what position did they now stand ? How many of
them were there who agreed in the ground of their oppo-
sition to this measure ? How remarkable was the change
of position between the opponents and the supporters of
Reform ? No two lines of arguments could ba more com-
pletely contrasted than those which were taken by the dif-
ferent persons who were leagued together in opposition to
the measure. The Noble Lord who opened the debate,
whatever were his own opinions and wishes on the subject,
felt himself compelled to say, that he could no longer deny
that some Reform was necessary. The unprecedented
unanimity with which the country called for Reform, and
hailed the present measure, and the loud, urgent, and
irresistible, although peaceable voice, with which they
called frr its adoption, proved that Reform must be granted
—that a substantial Reform must be granted in order to
satisfy them—not a nominal Reform, but an effective one.
This was the admission of the Noble Mover, but what
said the Noble Duke (Wellington ?) If ever he regretted
the line of conduct pursued by a public man, whose great
services to his country at the head of his country's armies
and at the head of the King's Councils, be should always
be ready to admire and proclaim as they deserved, it was
that of the Noble Duke, when he made the declaration, at
the commencement of the present Session, against all Re-
form. But still, even that fatal declaration was charac-
terised by the boldness and decision which the Noble Duke
had displayed as a political leader, as well as in his military
capacity. And then, when the word had once passed, the
Noble Duke disdained to resort to the plea of expediency,
under which those sheltered themselves whobefore fostered
the cause of Anti-Reform along with him, and, thrte or
four days ago, in the most open and manly manner, said
that he still remained of the same opinion. This consis-
tency rather added to his admiration of the Noble Duke ;
but then he might praise his consistency, and yet feel that
he was in the wrong. The Noble Duke, however, might
be consistent, but he was yoked with those who would not
pull straightforward along with him ; but some would
pull to one aide and some to another, and some in opposite
directions. The Noble Duke might oppose all Reform,
but no one could he get to add another star to the galaxy ;
and one Noble Friend of his, who supported the Noble
Duke, differed only by a few degrees with the Ministry,
mind was ready to go nearly as far as they slid. Had he
not then, completely made out his assertion that the sup-
porters and antagonists of Reform had completely changed

places, and that the taunts which the opponents of Reform
had once heaped on its advocates now recoiled on their own
heads ? It was no wonder that they, advocating the af-

firtnative of Reform, had differed from each other as to the
mode in which, and the extent to which, Reform ought
to he carried. But those who maintained the negative side
were so utterly at variance with each other, that it
proved, in a most remarkable degree, the singular feli-
city of this measure, and the great strength of the
argumesat in its support. He could not avoid saying
a word as to the concession made by his Noble Friend
who ()petard the debate, as to the universal acceptation
which this great measure had met with. No admission
could he more complete thus it had secured the approbation
of every class and of every sect—that it had been received
with almost universal unanimity by all, and had nearly put
an end to petty distinctions and shades of difference. And
yet this was not the most remarkable feature in the case.
They when monopoly had been trenched upon by the
measure—they who had been disfranchised by it—had
been among the first to come forward with honest pa-
triotism to abandon their own personal interests, and to
sacrifice their monopoly on the altar of their country.
There were some few of the least important portion of
those who had enjoyed the monopoly who came forward
and prayed that they might not be disfranchised, but the
vast majority had joined their countrymen in calling aloud
for Reform, although at the expense of their own private
and personal interests. He had not failed to hear from
the cross benches—where there were some very expect
lawyers who would not let slip anything having the ap-
pearance of making in support of their case—some whis-
pers of this kind—" Let the dates of these petitions be
known as well as their substance." He knew well what
was the meaning of that. The abuses had existed these
400 years, anti the petitions were but of yesterday.
But the tables of the Houses of Parliament were loaded
with petitions in 1791 and in 1817, on the subject of Re-
form, and now petitions flocked in upon us from the
whole of the country in one simultaneous flood, and abso-
lutely overwhelmed us with the irresistible pressure. But
thus (continued the Noble and Learned Lord) it ever is
with injustice—it always moves quicker than the com-
plaints of its effects, or the desires for redress. " Injus-
tice, I remember, the poet tells us—
" Injustice, swift, erect, and unconfined,
" Sweeps the wide earth, and tramples o'er mankind,
" While prayers to heal her wrongs move slow behind.'
But though prayers be slow, they are not less sure to fol-
low, and if injustice tramples o'er mankind, and sweeps
the wide earth, and if prayer lag behind, it is as sure as
that it is in the power of Heaven to grant redress, that in-
justice always leads to complaint —that the denial of right
engenders the sense of wrong ; and were the Government
even insensible to the signs of the time', and to all the other
examples which it had furnished before it, it would, in my
opinion, be perfect madness on its part to resist the unani-
mous appeal of a suffering people. I give you not counsel,
nay Lords, to yield to menace or to bend to fear. I only give
you that counsel which I have before addressed to the
other House of Parliament,—l but give you that counsel
which has been often given to you before by those Noble
persons who have been most forward in promoting the suc-
cess of this great and healing measure of Reform. They
honestly and manfully performed their duty in those times
at the risk of the animadversions which it might draw
down upon them. They laughed at the ridiculous
charge of yielding to fear, and if they did fe tr a
discontented people,
I tell you plainly, nay Lords,
that I share in that fear with them. I own that I fear
the discontent of an unanimous people, and that I should
tremble at the thought of going on further without endea-
vouring to appease it, feeling as I do that they ask only for
their right, and that right, if withheld, and that wrong
unredressed, might rouse their slumbering strengths to-
day. That appears to me a reason which fairly calls upon
us to yield to the just demands of the people," The
Noble and Learned Lord proceeded to observe, that
it was better to reform in time, and not wait till,
like the measure for Catholic Emancipation, the change
was forced upon us under less favourable circumstances.
They were told by some that the measure was revolution-
ary, and by others that it would effect a great change ;
and at all 'events, they said, it would effect an unprece-
dented alteration in the ancient Constitution of the
country. He would be glad to meet them even on that last
ground, which was the threshold of the Bill, and that
part of it to which there really existed the most objec-
tion. The measure, it was said, altogether disfranchised
sixty places, and partially disfranchised forty-seven
others, and this was the grand objection ; for in other
respects the landed interest would gain a great deal in
point of influence by the measure. But still they
objected to it, on account of the disfranchisement of
the borough., and the unprecedented change, as they al-
leged, this would make in the Constitution. In arguing the
question with the late Mr. Canning, he bad said, " Why,
here you have got representatives in Parliament for such

places as Gatton and 01,1 Satu► ! But what do you say
to such places as Manchester remaining unrepresented ?"
The answer of Mr. Canning was, " Although Manchester
is not represented, yet Liverpool, Pomfret in Yorkshire,
and other places of that kind, were directly represente 1 ;
and, consequently, Manchester and places of that kind
were virtually represented by Edinburgh ; and from the
Tweed to John O'Groat's house, there is no popular rrpre-
sentition, and even the counties there are in a worse state
than close boroughs ; for, as Mr. Fox once said, ' thr
whole of Scotland might be represented by the bankers in
Lombard-street, and the people of Scotland know nothing
about it.' " The reply to that was, that the Constitution
of the House of Commons must not be changed—that as
the Constitution of Parliament, as consisting of the three
estates, could not be altered, so the Constitution of the
House of Commons must not be changed. Well, but
then, he rejoined, what do you think of distranchisior
boroughs where the electors have grossly misconducted
themselves in the exercise of their elective franchise ? To
which the answer was, that there the people had been gushy
of a heinous offence, and deserved to be disfranchised. A
more futile rea•on he had never heard ; for, although the
people had committed an offence, why should not only they
but the borough be disfranchised ? Trustees might be guilty
of a gross breach of trust, and they might be justly dis-
missed for it ; but then the trust ought not to be, therefore,
destroyed. But so it was, that he was obliged to allow that
changes had been made in the Constitution of the House of
Commons by the disfranchisement of the boroughs, and his
argument against unprecedented change was utterly incon-
clusive and inconsistent. But he did not dwell on that
as the strongest part of his answer, for he maintained that
there never was a more monstrous proposition than to say
that the disfranchisement of such places as Gatton and
Old Sarum was an unprecedented change in the ancient
constitution of the Houe,of Commons, for, from the ear-

Best times, when places to which writs had formerly been
sent fell into decay, they had been passed over, and the
writs directed to other more wealthy and populous place.
It was, of course, perfectly well known to every one ac-
quainted with the history and practice of the Constitu-
tion, that the King, in right of his prerogative, was en-
titled to issue, and in times past had issued writs to va-
rious places not previously represented, and had, in effect,
disfranchised rotten boroughs, by not issuing writs to them.
Sixty boroughs were disfranchised in one reign, and '72
enfranchised. As to the construction which had been
put upon the Union with Scotland, neither could he agree
that a correct representation had been given of it by
his Noble Friend, who called it a Radical Reform. Up
to the 18:h century, the Crown, without obtaining or
asking the authority of Parliament, had more than
once altered the representation of the country. His
Noble Friends had been taunted with being the disciples
of a great orator now no more. He would venture to
say thus much, that had he lived to the present day,
he would, in the present state of the country, have
rather been the supporter than the opponent of Re-
form. If they were the disciples of that eminent indi-
vidual, it should be remembered that both roaster and dis-
ciples had themselves one common master, who was him-
self one of the greatest Reformers that had ever lived. Mr.
Pitt was a wholesale Reformer, who spoke for it, who
divided for it, and who expressed the deepest mortification
and disappointment at his plans having failed—who de-
clared that no honest man could be a Minister except with
a reformed Parliament ; and if, par hazard, an honest
man were appointed to the office, he could not serve the
State. The common master of the disciples mentioned
proposed a measure which went at a single blow to dimi-
nish the House of Commons to the extent of 100 Mem-
bers, while they only sought to bring the number of the
House to nearly what they were in the year 1801, by re-
ducing them to 600. The wit of man was defied to pro-
duce an authority fur changes of that nature. Ile could
call their attention to infinitely grater changes—for ex-
ample, when the qualification of freeholders was raised to
a sum equal to 401. of the money of the present day.—
The principle of change was precisely the same, whether
applied to England, to Scotland, or to Ireland ; for surelythe
two latter had an equal right to their respective Parlia-
ments as England had to do that which she possessed, and
for the purposes of precedent they served equally. Let
Noble Lords, then, only look to the change effected
in the representation of both these places at the period of
the Unions—let them remember the measures which
ushered in that union with Scotland, which deprived five
parts in six of the right of sitting and voting; let them
look to what was done in Ireland in the years '7B, 82,
and 93, when the Catholic disabilities, as affecting voters,
were repealed. He was not speaking of words, but of
that which was real and substantial, and which affected
the whole body of the constituency of that country—not
to say one portion thereof, but the whole body, rich, poor,
and middle classes. In Ireland, the measure to which he
referred was, indeed, not so much a measure of Reform as
of Revolution. Two hundred Members, at the Irish
Union, were taken front tire representation of that coun-
try in one crash, without any great violence : surely that
might be called a precedent to support the present mea-
sure, although his Noble Friend had said that it was
utterly without precedent. He purposely abstained from
going into dot tile, but he should briefly characterise some
of the qualities by means of which the measure hail ob-
tained his admiration, and should receive his full support.
He should tell the House why he had resolved to support
the measure : first, he thought it worse than useless that
any measure should be brought forward which would dis-
appoint the just and reasonable expectations of the
people. Then, in further support of the confessedly
extensive nature of the plan, he would observe that his
Noble Friend had told their Lordships that he had been
all along a strenuous opponent of Reform—and being
so, what security had they that be would have con-
sented to all that was called moderate Reform—that
moderate Reform, from the definition of which, all
who advocated it carefully shrunk. If they (the Mini-
sters) had proposed to lop off sonic of the rotten boroughs,
and permitted some to remain, then those who were the
opponents of Reform would have said, why permit any to
remain—the principle which justified the removal of one
portion would fully warrant the removal of the remainder
—if there was justice in a part, the whole must be equally
so ?—(Cries of hear, hear, front Lord Wharticliffe.) Yes,
his Noble Friend felt the force of the argument, and be
thanked him for the grateful nature of the interruption—
he thanked him for the force and value of the testimony
which he bore to the justice and cogency of the argument.
Just at that moment when he received the most agreeable
interruption, he was on the point of adding, that if a
measure of less extent were proposed, the opponents of all
Reform would say—" Why do those things by halves—
that which was good for some portion of the constituency
was equally excellent for all the rest ?" The advocates of
a plan of that nature—he meant a plan of moderate Re-
form—would have been charged with the grossest incon-
sistency ; or if they still adopted the principle of limited
Reform in another shape, it would be said that they did
just enough to save their consistency—to enable them to
plead the merit of Reformers with the people,. while in
reality they did nothing to satisfy their real wants. But
he would venture to tell the House that the people were

not such bad reasoners, or so ignorant of their rights and
their power, as that species of argument presumed. The
people would say to such a Ministry, " Do nothing, or
do it manfully, faithfully, and successfully." How could
they give any answer to that, excepting one, which would
have been totally inconsistent with the public expectations ?
The answer was one which could not be mentioned with a
grave face. After eulogising in warm terms the disin-
terested and patriotic manner in which his Noble Friend
had declared that he should be ashamed to retain Down-
ton and Knaresborough, when the sacrifice of them would
become useful to the country, and the equally noble man-
ner in which his friend (the Eail Marshal) had declared
his willingness to make similar sacrifices, he scent on to
say that the second and main ground upon which he
should support the Bill was, that it enabled him to
get rid of what was infinitely worse than the close or
nomination boroughs ; for, really, the more experience
he had upon the subject, the more was he assured that the
nomination of boroughs were less evils than Barnstaple,
for example; but he would not enter into details; be
would not mention more than one other case; he was
ashamed to say that by a recent decision of a Committee
of the House of Commons, the great, the enormous, the
overgrown delinquency of Liverpool was made apparent,
and the Member, the most innocent of all the parties, was
unseated. The corruption and bribery practised there
surpassed in openness and audacity all that had ever beets
recorded in the annals of electioneering iniquity. They
' began by carrying on their bribery in the first instance by
means of a hole in the wall of their room ; but at length
they spurned even that poor subterfuge, and corruption
walked forth in open day, and huckstered at the foot of
the hustings, and tallies that at one period of the election
sold for 101. soon rose to 1301. The system, or rather
that part of the system which gave rise to that, was in-
disputably the worst evil of all. The outvoters and the
freemen were the real delinquents, and the parties the de-
struction of whose privileges was the most important to
the purification of the other branch of the Legislature.
Yes, it was the outvoters who inoculated all the rest ;
whose venom, having time to fester and ferment, did the
work of corruption, to an extent and with an intensity of
which no example could be afforded in any other branch
of our representative system. Of the eight hundred out-
voters of Liverpool 530 were resident in Lancashire, and
whoever could command them was assured of doing the

business. Now, as he bad already stated, he supported
the Bill as putting an end to that part of the system he
supported it also in the full expectation that it would con-
ciliate and give contentment to the great miss of the
people. Even in getting rid of the close boroughs, it got
rid of a great anl foul mass of corruption, though
not so great or so foul as in the rotten boroughs, properly
so called. To show the House the manner in which
those boroughs were made to operate in private transae.
tions, he would mention one circumstance peculiarly
illustrative of the character of the system. A debtor
was c wined : he purchased a seat for three months,
for no oth, r put pose than that of escaping from his
creditors. Surely if ever there was a practice that call d
loudly for amendment, it was that by which, under the guise
of one of the highest and mast sacred political duties which
the members ofd free community had to discharge, a frau-
dulent debtor was enabled to cheat his creditors. The
Noble and Learned Lent then entered into the detail of
another purchase and sale of a borough, in which an allow.
ance was made for prompt payment—that meaning three
or six months, he did not know which, and the allowance
being not the vulgar sort of discount—pecuniary discount,
used on the Stock Exchange, lint the true Parliamentary
kind—that of one Member going out and another coining
in.—(A laugh.) He did not wonderathat their Lordships
should laugh, for the true source of the ludicrous was the
incongruity of the ideas presented to the mind, and the
more gross the incongruity, the more ludicrous did the
subject appear. Now, certainly it was impossible to con-
ceive any incongruity more gross than that whirls esti.
mated a seat in the Legislature as five per cent. upon
40,0001. It was as evident as the light of Heaven that
no Legislature could go on in such a state of things, that
no Legislature could proceed in such a condition, without
its character being so impaired as to render it utterly
powerless. Yielding to those considerations, and to others
acit less we'ghty, he had determined to give the Bill his
most cordiil support, and to join in saying, that thence-
forth those corruptions should have an end. But there
yet remained to lie noticed other merits of the proposed
measure, for instance, that of taking the poll in various
places on the same day, to say nothing of its letting in
large bodies of his Majesty's subjects hitherto unrepre-
sented—those industrious classes who contributed to the
manufacturing and commercial greatness of the country,
who supported cheerfully and efficiently the burdens of the
country, and spilled their blood in its defence.—(Hear,
hear.) Further, it let in the copyholders and the small
leaseholders, thus establishing the independent representa-
tion of the counties. This alteration, he observed, hoc me
particularly necess try, from the exclusion of th ace who had
votes for towns, they being rendered incapable of voting
out of the same property for counties. In illustration of
this he referred to the case of Yorkshire, where in truth
the town. constituted the most independent portion of the
electors. In Yorkshire the 'Squires were opposed to him ;
many of those were his very good friends, and in another
county would have supported him—indeed, some of them
who had supported him in 'Westmoreland bought freeholds
in Yorkshire for the purpose of opposing him ; they did
all they could to keep hint out, but the towns were too
many for them. He went carefully through every one of
the great towns, and the six smaller ones, and success en.
sued upon his canvass. There was at one moment an ap-
prehension that something would have gone wrong in the
interest of his Hon. Colleague ; and a town of such little im-
portance, that perhaps their Lordships had never heard of
it, that insignificant little place was prepared to send no
fewer than 540 electors to the aid of his Hon. Friend.
That was net a state of the representation in which coun-
ties could be said to be fairly represented—that was not a
state in which the landlords, the yeomanry, the tenantry,
or the cottagers could be said to enjoy the benefits of re.
presentation : it was not just, expedient, or safe that such
a state of things should continue ; the great mass of the
industrious people demanded representation. The spread
of knowledge amongst the middle classes—the improve-
trent in their circumstances, which recent events had
brought about—the great weight which of late years they
had attained in all public concerns, and the interest which
they had in the sum of affairs, rendered it neither safe,
expedient, nor just to deprive them any longer of their
fair share in the representative branch of the Legislature.
They paid millions upon millions of taxes—they filled our
armies—they shed their blood in defence of our institu-
tions—ond yet they were denied the exercise of the elec-
tive franchise. The House would bear in mind that it ass
nothing but the union of the several ports of the King-
, dons which prevented the Crown from issuing writs to the
, unrepresented places ; and all that his Majesty's Govern-
ment now called upon Parliament was to do safely that
I which, under other circumstances, would have been done
t with hazard, and irregularly. Having thus shortly laid
, before the House the grounds on which the measure had
his concurrence, he should not hesitate to say that as he
4 had no doubt of the ,xpediency and justness of the mea-
t sure, so he had as little of its ultimate success.
. The Duke of WELLINGTON would not apologise for

rising so late, or for not having risen before, because really
nntil the speech just delivered from the Woolsack no an-
swer had been math,, whatever might have been attempted,
to his Noble Friend (Lord Wharncliffe). I have not
(said his Grace) in any degree changed my opinion since
I addressed your Lordships early in the Session upon the

sabject of lirform. In principle, the representative sys-
tem of the country is so perfect, that it ought not to be
changed ; in principle, yen can no more deprive a bo-
rough of its franchise, without proof of its delinquency,
thin yon con deprive me of my seat here, or my Noble
Friend of his estate in Yorkshire. Until now this House
has always required proof of guilt before it proceeded to
disfranchisement. I admit that there might be circum-
stances of necessity which would govern this strict rule,
but what I contend for now, and what I have contended
for all along is, that this is not a case of necessity. NO
necessity has been established. The Noble Lord on the
Woolsack talks of the claims of those who have shed
their Wood in the service of their country. I feel for •
that class too as sincerely as the Noble Lord ; but let US
recollect that they are not the persons who are to re-
ceive the franchise.— Hear, hear.) All the Noble Lords.
and all the Hon. Members who have hitherto spoken,
seem to have left out of the question this consideration,—
that it is a Legislative Assembly you ought to create, and
not a body of voters—a House of Commons, and not a
constituency. This is a point to which it becomes Mi-
nisters especially to look. The Noble and Learned Lord
tells us that he would keep some rotten boroughs in pre-
ference to other,. Preference defeats the principle of the
Bil', and if he adheres to his preference, he must relinquish
his principle. Now as to the present House of Com-
mons, I maintain that it is as complete and perfect a le-
gislative body as can be required. I assert, that espe-
cially since the peace, it has shown itself the most efficient
guardian of the stability of the throne, the interests of
the nation, and the rights of the people. I say further,
that it has done better service as a legislative body than
any assembly of the same character at any former time,
and for an equal period, and that this beneficial course
was only interrupted by the introduction of this dis-
cussion.—(Hear, hear.) I have the authority of the
Noble Marquis himself, the President of the Council,
fur raying, that were he to appoint a House of Com-
mons, he could not select one better adapted to the
great ends of national welfare, giving, as it ought, a due
preponderance to the weight of landed property. The
Noble Earl, too, at the head of his 31ajssty's Government
in 1817, on the presentation of a petition upon this very
subject, admitted that the House of Commons was always
ready to assert and maintain the interests of the people.
Therefore, instead of abandoning, or even qualifying the
opinion I deliv• red at the opening of the Session, I continue
)as
aI dmidanslehwaataahst
of the two No;rle Lords I have ruentioned• Some
to entertain it in its full force, supported in it sen-
timentsbdyantgheers,or
remarks by the Noble Baron (Durham), and by the Lord
Chancellor for Ireland, do not seem to me exactly' correct
in point of fact. It is very true that the late Govern..
went brought forward the Roman Catholic Relief
and it is equally true that I lost the regard anfd
that
sure ; but I did no more than I thought my public duty,
and I was not to be misled by imaginary of many valuable friends by the int(rGodrueyct;onbuotnaottrietiai
aatnan'edl boyugilaittimtoidhaat‘i•°et:l7ne(,llaerl4lrl'slZrt.
as I enjoyed the approbation of
stranding, I felt called upon to retain the position I held in
the Government as long
ednocaegsa,ivniz(aHNeaarh,
Noble Earl
oplpoasfitteerwards had some differ-
my Sovereign and the confidence of the Legislature. Then
came the revolution in France, followed by that of Be!.
gium, and, like the former revolutions of Naples and of
Spain, they naturally excited a strong sensation here-_a
acquiesce
eteo
in that
tiatei
strong desire for Parliamentary Reform. But I did not
ought
all
think then, any snore than I think now, that that desire
was irresistible. If Parliament should see reason to de-
cide that the proposed alteration in the Constitution is
made, I am confident
theestl yPZel;inseineed here, I am sure that
decision. —(Hear,
hear.) I believe that the wish for Reform is strong and
that the subject is fairly
they will submit without a murmur. Already the sen-
sation produced by the French and Belgian revolutions has
subsided ; the natives of this country have seen the de-
plorableresults by which those commotions have been fol-
lowed, and
are wisely warned by the sufferings of their
neighbours. Then came the question of the Civil List. I
discussed, growing
and lni t
honestly
n
do not assert that there was actually a combination of par-
ties on that occasion against the Government ; but I cet-

lainly

ccrr, p
omit

I-ave te
Reform
had to
out-% ot

fur this
country
subject
repeat i
choose

venienc
been, of
because
Comm(

office a
voted.
his Maj
first (11:
sated,
trenchr
to the I
prehem
It has
by the
believe,

done a
I may 1
a train

world.

CIICPS ;
risk of
I newel

reconir

langua
founde
what t
It oug
to can

sy sten
a Con
Mane
ledge,
law s
in ale
place,

the ri

Puy
do c
their
deri
part
lean

wit
con
rep
tha
star