The Sun.
London, England, 1807-03-26 00:00:00

STATE 'OF TRADE.

-

Decrease

Exports ISos -
rBO6

- • Increase - 877,921
The Rate of Exchange on London had fallen
to gi per cent. which was lower than it had been
for several years past ; all these circumstances and
statements combined, were unequivocal prooth of
the growing prosperity ofireland.. .
Sir Joing NEWPORT then concluded with moving
the following Resolutions :
" That, towards raising the Supply granted to His Majes-
ty, the sum of t,500,0001. British currency, be raised by way,
of Annuities for the Service of Ireland; •
" That it was: the opinion of the Committee that 'every
Contributor to said Loan should, for every tool: sterling sub-.
scribed, receive 1601. tzs. rrAt. 013 per Cent.'Consols, and
the usual discount to be allowed upon. the several instal-
ments ; also, that the duties, drawbacks, anti botinties, on
the exportation and importation of certain gopds, wines,'auct
merchandize, to and from- Ireland, cease ; and that pater du-
ties, on the following articles, be paid in lieu thereof ;
" That there be charged on every pound weight of hops, •
one-penny farthing, I rills currency ; on every bushel o'f•winte
salt, imported fromany part of Great Britain to Ireland, as,
Irish currency; on everylon of tock salt; imported into Ire-
land, the produce of Great Britain, ;I. Irish currency ; upon
every ton of coals, the produce of Great Britain, imported
into Ireland, is. od. Irish currency."
These. Resolutions were severally agreed 19.,
,and
the House being resumed, the Report was ordered
to be received to-morrow,

DISTURBANCES IN INDIA.
Sir PHILIP FRANCIS, aware of the. interest-
ing and important business that was to come on,
should not' offer himself to the House, if he was not
convinced of the very great importance of the. sub
feat to which he xi, ished to call the attention of the
House. Seeing a Right Hon. Gentleman in his place
(Mr. Tierney), he wished to ask him a few questionS
respecting the state of 'lndia. He knew not_ whether
or not that Gentleman was in office, but he was the.
.only person present to whom he could look for an
information. The first question he wished to ask
was, why the Indian Accounts, upon which the
India Budget was to be founded, had not yet
been laid before the House ? The House would
recollea, that three years had elapsed since an
India Budget had been brought forward, and-that
consequently there was an ,arrear of two years.
But that was. not the principal objet of his rising.:
he wished to ask whether any advices had been re-
ceived respe&ing the unfortunate transaaion at Vel:
lore, which was not only melancholy in its imthediate
effe9te, but dangerous in its probable consequences ?
That transaction he looked upon as more dangerous.
than a Battle or ten Battles lost. Advices' had.
been received in town, ;he did not kndw whe--
ther they were authentic; stating, that the Carnatic,
or the provinces adjoining, 'were, in 'consequence. of
that transaaion, in such a state as to cause no small
disquietude to the Government at Madras, froth
which au order had been .sent to Gen: Maitland; to
send all the European troops WhiCh he had with him
at Ceylon to that Presidency. He wished to know,
therefore, whether Government or the East India
Dire&orS had received any Dispatches on the subjeEt ?
If the information were true, it would go to the very
ciistence of our power in India. He had determined
not to be forward with respect to India alnirs, but
this was a British question-, just as much as a Rebels
lion in Ireland would not be an IriSh qtiestion solely,
but a British question. The Hon. Gentle Ma- was
proceeding, when ,called to order by
Mr: HUSKISSON, who thought it irregular for any.
Honourable Member, when he rose to put questions,
to enter into any discussion on the subject to which
they related.
THE SPEAKER did not hear the Call to Order with
surprise, as the Honourable Member had certainly
been pursuing a course which was contrary to the
established usage of the House to permit.
Sir - PHILIP FRANCIS had intended only to justify
himself for bringing the subjeuSt under the conSidera=
tion of the House; he had therefore nothing further
to say, .but to ask for some answer to his questions.
Mr. TIERNEY was ready to give the Hon.. Mem-
ber ever information in his power. With respect
to his first question he had only to say, that no ac-
counts had been received froth India, and the Budget
could not be brought forward until they should be
received. He might ask ' that Hon. Member in his
. turn, how the .Budget could be brought forward at
so early a period of the Session, if the accounts had "
not beenyeceiVed by the Oaoher ships ? One year's
accounts were ready to be produced to the .How.e,
but he, had thought it' but fair and candid to leave
the whole of the 'business to the discretion of
those who were *to succeed . him. He was cer-
- taro there were no accounts in • this Country
..that would give the Honourable Gentleman the
information he sought for. With respeCt to the
second question of the Honourable Gentleman,
and the subject -of the melancholy business at
Vellore, he could inform him that ther6 were ,
sufficient Papers at the India House to form a judg-
,ment upon that subject. • If• the HO.. Gentlemen
wished for the information, he might make a Motion
upon the.subje&, and then it would be to be consi-
dered how far such a Motion could be complied
with consistently with the public interest. As to the
question of the Hon. Gentleman, he was happy to
state to the •Hon. Gentleman, that the privae inthr-
matton, respecting an application having been made.
by the Government of Madras, for all the European
troops at Ceylon, was. incorrect. An application had -
been made by an individu2il Officer in the South
of the Peninsula, who found himself in a situation of
difficulty, for a small force, to the Governor of Cey-
lon, and General Maitland, with that zealwhich he
•on every occasion displays iii the service, had thought
'it right to communicate the circumstance. But no
Dispatches had been received on
.the subjea—
Enough of 'Papers, however, had been received with
respeiA to the unfortunate business at Vellore..
MOTION FOR AN ADDRESS TO HIS MAIESTY
- AGAINST GRANTING PLACES FOR LI,FL.
Mr. HENRY MARTIN rose, pursuant to his
notice, to submit his Motion to the House.; and he
had to regret that this task had rot fallen into abler
bads than his. He felt that he had little claim to
the con,ideration of the House, and trusted that
some Gentleman of greater talents would,come for-
ward to support the question which he looked upon
it as his duty to bring niiderithe consideration of the

.PrrittSe: But before he should enter into the grounds Of
bi'eMetiOn, prof the propriety of bringing it forward,
he Wished to clear away every suspicion that he was
aetcated by any motive of hostility towardS t he Right
Hon, Gentleman who was the object of it. With
that Gentlemap he had the pleasure and the honour
of, being long aciprainted, and he entertained the
highest 'resped for his abilities and charaCter. Much
afs'he 'was- attached to the honourable persons
who 'Composed
,his Majesty's late Admioistration,
he could assureehe House, that,in bringing forward
this motion he Wes a6tuated by no party motive.—
,He-wishedalisi'tteshew, that he was not doing any
'thingthat would trench upon the prerogative of the
Ottewn: Frorri the year 1660 'to the present time there
appeared bet two inStatices in which the office of Chan-
cellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, to which hi; esteem
particularly applied, had been granted for life: The
result of the inquiry which he had been able to make
was, that it had not in any other instance been grant-
.ed for life within that period of one hundred and
forty-seyen years. This would satisfy the House
that his mOtion for an Address-, that his Majestii
would be graciotisly pleased to grant this place ac=
cording to the usual practice, would not interfere
svithsthe Royal Prerogative. The first-instance in
which it had been granted for life was, in 1717,
when it had been granted to a Noble Lord who
had fora look time filled the office of Attorney-Ge-
neral. He shOuld establish the differencebetween
the cases. In that instance, the person had been raised
to the Peerage when all the avenues to hiS profession
were shut ageinst him, and it was thought right to
give 'hire .some provision for life in reward for ,his
services. The next instance was in teeie, when the
Place of Chancellor of the Duchy of Laiicaster had
been granted for life to Lord Ashburton. 'He was
anxious 'to state .all that he had been able to find
on the subjeet. Gentlemen must not suppose him
ignorant of the cases that bore upon his motion.—
But under what circumstances had that Noble Lord
received this office ? He had filled the office of Soli-
citor General; had been long at the head of hiS pro-
fession; and had,distinguished himself in that House
as much as the 'opposite, but in
a far different manner: - He had distinguished himself
in the'support of the rights.ofthepeopie, and of the
authority of Parliament, in which way he bad never
heard of the Learned Gentleman havingdistiogeished
himself. That Noble Lord having got e- Peerage,
when all the law offices^. were fulls it had been thought
right by the
.persons with whom he had acted in
Parliament, to ,give him the Chancellorship of the
Deadly of Lancaster 'for life. But it had not been
granted to him to induce'him to accept another office
of honour and, emolument. 7 It was greeted- for
services- already performed. These were all the
cases that he could find of such a giant ; and;there-
fore, the motion for an Address to his Majesty, to
make the grant in- the usual lanner, could not in-
terfere with the prerogative'; -and-there was a pr'e-
cedent-of an Address, the same in substance, though
not in. form, with that which he proposed to
moi That Address had been Voted 'on the'
23d of December,. 11.83, on the occasion-of a ru-
mour that-it was in his Majesty's contemplation to
grant. this place for life, or for any other term than -
during pleasure, up to a particular period. He
was aware of the difference between that Resolution
and the Motion he intended to make, but at that
time a report was expeCled from the Committee of
Offices and Accounts, which might-re&)mtnend the
abolition or modification, of the office. He was not,
however; so wedded to the terms of his Motion, as not
to consent to medif) it in any manner that the House
might think proper. He did not know whether
the Committee at present inquiring into what of-
fices ought to be abolished or regulated, might rot
be of the same opinion as Mr. Burke, that this cf..
five ought to be altogether abolished. But he did
think that.it Would become a question in that Com-
mittee, how the grant of places for life ,was a griev-
ance. For his part he looked upon such grants as
equally grievences with the grants in reversion, and
was Of opinions that no person should grant places
except during his own life, Unless for distinguished
services. In such cases, he would adinit the pro-
priety of. grants for life, as a remuneration for
the services performed. But the Honourable and
'Learned :Gentleman was to have another situation,
which was in itself a plaCe of great honour and
emolument, and therefore could have no claim to the
grant for life of such an office as that of the Chan-
cellorship of the Duchy of Lancaster. 'Were the
Gentlemen who were to become his Majesty's Mi-
nisters to be tempted by such means, to accept Of-
fices, which were generally objects 'of honourable
ambition He did not mean to confine his Motion to
the particular case, but'rested it upori general prin-
ciples, to extend to all sugh otlices pending the extst-
enee of that Committee, from whose-labours he was
convinced the House and the public service would
derive so- much benefit. His motion would not, at all
-events, be liableto the objection made to a Resolution
:moved yesterday by the Chairman of-the Committee,
and recommended by the Conunittee, that it was an
innovation, because in the course of one hundred and
forty-seven years there appeared but two instances
hievhich the 'place had been granted for life. An
Address 'had also been voted of a similar nature on a
former occasion, with which his Majesty had com-
plied, and had been graciously pleased to reply that
he would not grant the office for 'life, and he had

ne?.ei since so granted It might be said that he
bad taken the House by surprise. It ill became him
to speak'of himself, but every man who'knew
must know that he was incapable of taking the House
by surprise. The'Motion had arisen out of the dis-

cussion yesterday„ and the delay of a few hours might
have rendered it nugatory. It might also be asked,
why he-had not brought forward the motion udder
the late Administration ? To this he sbould answer,
• they were incapable of any such proceeding, because
they had-Shewn no disposition to grasp at every thinT
they could secure, because they had shewn the disin-
terested principles upon whichthey aaed,by abstaining
.froth granting places in reversion. The Hon. Gent.
concluded by moving, " That an hUmblekddress be
presented to his Majesty, that he would be gracious-
ly pleased not to grant Che office ofehancellor of the
Duchy of Lancaster for life, nor any other office at
present and .usually held during pleastire."
The Hort: Mr. WARD rose to second the Motion,
•to which he gave his full and cordial approbation.
The Motion tOr the Address to his Majesty was re-
commended- to the House by every principle of rea-
sun, and all the authority of precedent. The precc-
data shqwed incontestibly that the Motion would '1

ds df
'ard.

not interfere with the Royal Prerogative, and the
reason of the thing was so obvious as not to re-
quire, illustration. Every grant of a pike for
'life had a direa tendency to impair the dignity
of the Croivn. Any other measure might be con-
demned upon- certain particular grounds, but this
was a. proceeding whieb was to be resisted upon every
consideration of reason,
.policy, and interest. The
pra6tiee, if permitted, would the-dignity and
means of the Crowni • It would deprive it of the ex-
erciseof the power of punishing weak, .wicked, or
corrupt Ministers, by depriving them of their offices,
and takeaway from the Crown the power of bestow-
ing thoie offices on Wise and virtuous Ministers; it
Would remove, all locus penitentia. from the So-
l'et:eign, by tying up his. hands with respe& to of-
fices which Ire might once have conferred on un-
worthy objects; and be an injury to the rights and
interests of the people. Unavailing, would be
the complaints of the People under their sufferings ;
t would not be in the power of .the Crown to re-
-..oke mad) grants, after they had been Once made.
'Grants of this description appeared to him unconsti-
tutional under all circumstances. They had the ef,
feet of raising- up a race.-of men to live upon the
wealth of the Public, and to make them, alike inde-
pendent of the Bovereign; who might promote them,
and 'of the People,- by whom the means were sup
plied for their support. As the.grant of places for
life therefore had such a dire& tendency to deprive
the Crown of the power of punishing weak 'or wick-
ed, and of rewarding its meritotious„ servants, the
• N'lotion for the Address should • have his warmest
support.

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Mr. PERCIVAL had felt so, anxious to be pre•7
sent at the discussion of this question, that he had
delayed accepting the Office which, but for the no-
tice the, Hon. Gentleman .last night, he
should, ere this, have held. He thought it his duty,
by his presence, to take care, that if the Hoese
thought fit to address his Majesty, it should be on
accurate statements, and that no uncertain rumours
should usurp the place of facts. He could not for
a moment suppose, whatever might be the-motives
• of his Hon. and Learned _Friend, the present Mo.
tion proceeded from any personal towards
himself, because, in the whole of his intercoutse
-with his. Learned Friend, he was not conscious of a
single.circuinstance from which such could
• arise: It ' way unquestionably true that he had re-
ceived' an offer*om his Alajesty•of the Chancellor,-
ship of the Exchequer, accompanied with a grant
'of the ChaneellOrShip Of thb 'Melly of Lancaster for
life ; 'and-that,•but. for his. Liaind Friend's -notice,
be. would at't hat mo.neat. have
.been ,in possession
of both those- situations : •his Learned Friend, there-
fore, was not chargeable. with -surprise in bringing
forward his Vlotion .'at so shorra notice, as other-
Wise the season for it would have gone by. • He was
not :in. the 'House yesterday evening ; but, under-
....,stalAngthat such a notice bad been given, instead
of 'approaching his Sovereign for the purpose of re-
teiVing his appointment to office, he had approached
itim with, a request that the appointment might not
take place on that day, that_he might have an op-
portunity of addressing fife House on the subject ;
'and still more, that his-Majestymight not be fettered
in consequenceof any advice that the House might
think proper to offer him. This request Was ac-
companied with an assurance, as his Majesty had
been pleased to think that* lie- could be an useful
servant—that, whatever -might.,be -the' pleastire of
bis.. Majesty in consequence of catty Address from :the
Mouse of Commons,,althoug,h itsboulddeprive him,
of the Duchy of. -Lahe ste`e"forenerly. oti'ered, if
'serve
Would not in the slighiclCil4gre6 kiliatebis
his Majesty. Unquestionably, though. irt, :the
,iirst instance he should not have-felt justified in neg.
4e6ting his duty
,to his. family by quitting a lucrative
prOfession without the prospect of sjAe'thing like
claropensation--:yet-that when he found' his;Maje4-ty
thought his services. might be advantageous- to
the interest of the country, and, when. he. saw the
crisis in' which that 'country was placed, he felt it
0-olonger to be -a. Matter of optiOu -with hith, • but
that whatever might be the consequences to himself,.
his Sovereign should command the utmost exertion
of his humble abilities. With. •respea to ~,,the two
precedents alluded to by his Learned Friend, be
would not compare himself with the' objee4 of.
either ; but that Lord Ashburron should be allowed,
Without notice, to accept for life. the.Chanlellorship
°I the Duchy of Lancaster, impressed on him..the
belief that no Parliamentary objecaion existed against
such an appointor-tent. Lord AShburton was taken out
0 f the Profession of the. Law by an .Adininistmtion
Professedly of pure Whig Principles,Abat of Lord
Rockingham ; and the grant to him of the Duchy
of Lancaster was afterwards confirmed to him under
the Adthinistration of a' near relative of the Noble
Lord opposite (Marquis 'of Lansdowne). Lord Ash-
burton was a man with' whom it would certainly be
presumptuous. for him to compare himself, but his
Majesty might think proper at different times to
reward services done to different branches of the
Constitution. The most distinguished service of
that Learned Lord was the famous Resolution pro-
posed by him in the House, of Commons, " That
the Influence of,the Crown had increased, was in-
creasing,.and ought to be diminished." Such a per-
son having
.received that appointment, Under such
an Administration, had led him to think that the
Present motion would not have been seconded or
sUpported.by the Representatives of the Whig'Prin-
oinles in that House, and that it would not have
received the countenance ofan Administration whose
.first act had been not merely to advise the King to
110.10 y 'due exercise of his prerogative, but to introduce
unto Parliatnent a .measure, by which a Noble Lord
enabled, in opposition to the laws, to hold two
situations
.constitutionally incompatible with each
Other. The arguments of the Gentlemen' opposite
Were applicable against every grant of an office for
life, as well as ,his own ;' they Were applicable to.
that exception, frotn.:the praelice so loudly boasted
i. 0)% the late Administration, of
with-holding rever-
sDln ar! grants, in which the Chancellor, to reward .
t 1 private meritorious services of an individual, had
procured, for hint the revetsion for life-of a-lucrative
situatio!?. Surely; if the Clerk of a Barrister -were
not an Improper person on whom to copier such:a
grant, it seemed extraordinary that' he (Mr. Per.;
rival) should be cOnsidered so; AHIIOIIOII ••he ac-
quitted' his Learned *Yriend of any improper inten-
lions, he yet left it to the House to consider whetli.:.r
his motion was founded on enlarge:Ll motives,- or
whether it was, tart pointed .at this dired office; •
nu;.-ftlatu let;ii110-01 personal hostility .to himself,

but because tbe.ais.pointunent to thit office tniieht b;.- , . kr. MONTAGUE
.apologiseci, but on saying
0 supposed to give some facility to the arrangement of ! That he deprecated a motion which Went.to set aside
a new Administration, The House were also to ; the 'pterogative; and i.o.distress elle- eOvereigh' was
consider whether in the present critical state of again called to order by Mr. G aLsantsee and Mr.
the Country, when hia.Majesty, whether correctly .KOKEitsr. • ' • •• ' .
or not was not now to be. considered; bad conceived ' ' 'The SPEAKER observed, that the House, havlng
.
himself bound, by his regard for the Establishments once entertained allusions ef• this nature to the ,So-
and Religion of his - Country, to dispoSe of • the ad- -vereign,' it was.ditault to know where to Step. • '
ministration of affairs in other hands than those, to - • Lord HOIVICK maintained that the HotiS Gentle-
• .which it had lately been entrusted, whether, at such - man was out -of Order.
a moment, the House would throw any unneces-. Mr. MONTAGUE then proceeded. He said, that'
sary difficulties in the way of the Sovereign? 'With' the the independent MeMbers, ' to. Whom he particularly
. this he felt that he ought to leave the question and - addressed himself - - ,' ' '
the House: It woeldebe'imeroper for him to exec- ' The SPEAKER once more interposed. The,Hon.
cise his discretion upon it, and still more improper Member ought to conaider every Gentleman in that
to give his vote He should therefore quit the House House as independenteeke-e •
.with this assurance, that whatever measure it might Mr. MON'TAGUE .satW. n; Satter a short explana-
,
in its wisdom think fit to' adopt, 'should his Majesty tion.
continue to require Iris services, they should on no - Mr. H. THORNTON would not give .his vote
.
account he wanting. without qualifying it with two or three words.No
Mr. PERcIVAt immediately quitted the House. • person entertained a higher opinion of the disinterest-
Mr. PLOMER, as he had first started this subjea, edness of his Learned Friend than -himself; it was
thought a few words necessary in his own jhStifica- not, therefore, from personal orparty feeling-that he
tiort. The declaration just :made by the Learned I should support the Motion: he considdred it as a dry
• Gentleman would shew
.an .Hon. Gentleman - (Mr. j abstract question, and he was clearly of opinion, -that
Johnstone), if be were. present, that be had.not, as ' a grant, such as that which it was stated was in cote-
' that Hon. Gentleman yesterday insinuated, set this templation to bestow, ought not to be made. •
thingegthng on any.idle rumour. For his own part,. no Mr. JOHNSTONE opposed the Motion. - What
• one would be better pleased than he to see the Learn- had been the conduct of Gentle Men opposite ?'Their
ed Gentleman in Administration.' His only wish verystirst artwas at nine o'clock et.night, to read a-
was, that a great place during life, should not be Bill to impower a Noble Lord to hold two • situa-
• ofiied to induce hitit to take a place during pleasure. dons, constitutionally incompatible with each .other.
Lord HENRY PETTY had not intended to'rise . Another ad'of theirs was 'to increase the salary of
on this subjea, but as he had been personally alluded.. the First Lord of ' the Admiralty, although no
to, he would trouble the House with .a lee, words. document of such an increase was before the House,
He disclaimed all personal hostility to the Learned , Even the proposition for a Coruniittee of Finance,
'Gentleman, as connected with his acceptance of of- when made by his Hon. Friend, had not been received.
five. - Ilan increase of the salary of the situation with kindness; and it was only when they bad found
which he had lately the honour to •hold, had been that this proposition could not .• be resisted that
proposed, he would have couserited to it with great they came forward and avowed themselves to be its
,•satisfattion. With regard. to the merits of the Learn- supporters. It was true, Commissioners of Accounts.
ed Gentlemae
in ptivate life, the impression of them ; had, been appointed out- of number; .but .what have
was strong on his mind ; but with that impression ' they done ?- • CommissiOners of Accounts had been
he must declare, that, in his opinion, the objeat of appointed for the West-Indies; not : °lee: of which
the Learned Geetleman might have been obtained had Ailed. After some . further observationee:he
• , •
without an ea which, in the present crisis, was in- I concluded by eaying•that he did• not. 'think this MO-
-1 consistent with the interests 'of the Couatry, :The tion w.otside do anyagood to either side.' - -: e . '
. Learned Gentleman had alluded to the conduce} of a .
Mr. SEEIDAN vas glad to find that the Ho= Noble Lord departed, and very near relation. of his,
curable Gentleman- suddenly became •So neutral, as
in what that
_Learned 'Gentleman Was pleased to
...wit which-he sat down 'cotivinCed
nhe declaration • h
term a similar case. Whatei- respe6t he!. enter- itihn tte be, for in 'the former part of his speech he
tained for that dear connexion, of hip, he hadnot that 'bad followed up hilOng antipathy:to the bite Mieis-
respea for any man
.which should induce him to de-. ters. He at one time- flattered •-•himel•f, that that
part from that which be conceived to be his public
Hon. Gentlemen was well- disposed toithoae Minis-
duty ; but in this instance; his respea and hie pub- tera; •'he (Mr. Sheridan) was no divelger •Of 'private
lie duty were Compatibles. ' The transaaiona wereand secrets., bet be happeoed to' be the bearer •ble.Geptlemanof a pub-
broadly different. When- Mr. Dunnine- waS":made tic message froni that Honourable. Gentleman, a Peer by the title of Lord Ashburton,_ he was' kw. ne very well he might heve•lheen delcified, and
bilk
.censidered a Law Lord, altheneh he did not hold induced to withhold the onsereatimis in. which: he_
a judicial situation. The -Ci ianeellership• of the had chosen losindelge. .He• Was sure that the Ho
Duchy of Lancaster waseherefore granted him, to
nonrale Gentlemen under Stood him, It• had been
citable him to enjoy an income' (which, if he bad b
easked in what instance the late Administration had
not derived it from that source, must have. flowed , sheivn their disposition to reform ? He word&
from a Pension), until the ,iesth of Lord Mansfield ;
should have provided for him a seat in the Court of ask in what instance had they swerved from the
King's Bench. Hisfriends had been accused of attack
- deleratio i to that effea with which e
hey set-out •?-
ing the rerogative b sUppo.rtin the Mos -
g
In the Army' alley had. eeducedeheStaff, the Cm-
p,
y present •
missariat; and theßeirecla Department. The I-lo-
fion ; when, in feet, the grantieg of such an office 1 tient:able Getitletia en assertedse that the Committee Of
for life was a serious attack neon the pieromative:
• The great cause for winch the advaacates of On finance was forced, and the fad} was, that his No 7
stitutional prerogative, recorded in the Eelish
blaeli'rel tie [never of that Committee. Had thereienafkLord Henry -Petty) extended the propos:,
e '•
History, 'bed contended, was, that it' should sitionnot , been any shuffle or Ministerial arrangement to get
be limited and impaired by such grants. • Not three :
years had certain men lute:the Committee ?. The name of
elapsed since an arrangernent of a similar
n the Chairman was the best proof that could be given
aterse was in contemplation, as a reward for long '
of the •sincere and hOnest -vieWS of hie
. Noble Friend.
and ernitient 'services peeaemed by a person for '
--Witli regard teethe salary of the• First Lord of the
whom lie•entertained the highest respea• (Lord Sid--
! Admiralty, it had been long keown,fo be scanda-
, meutle):: E gr,antlike the present was offered to himee
loassly tOte small: , When the Noble'
.Lord who had
bet the.NobleLerd answered, that he could not re-
incurred- the'cenSure of that House (whether he was
cencilash-fe Mind. to be the instrument of alienating S 0
to retests to office or eotehee did `not knew); held
large a portiohOf!poWer from the CrOWn, especially
where
. ,no duty arose out of the office. A Corn.
mtttee, of Flounce had- been appointed to itiqUire
its Report,' an office ': thas situation, how was he paid 1 .The salaty was
increased by a legal interception eof the' revenue of
, Scotland, which. that Noble Lord still retained., If
) whaa offices might be-abolished with edeftetage-ao
the Hon. Gentleinenssonld-not Succeed better in-his:
the..Country...ln the present state of- affairs, end :
befOri. 'tleatCommittee had
„madecharges, he ho he would remain Chareer-Gene•-
b
; : rat to:the Gentleerfee opposite. With respea to the
eitremelseealeable • was endeavoured 1O lie entailed
',emoluments sacrificed by the• Learned Gentleman,
on. the Countret•during the life Of •anindieiduale On
he thought it was indelicate io touch upon them.—
this .ground, :and not, with a view to. diminish the
•1 No men had a higher respea for his Parliamentary
eneesmneeits of . the Learned Gentleman, which he
•wes free to cOefeis, as attached to the situation Which j talents ; but if his friends had advised him, when
he might have had the Attorney Generalship, with
he• Was About to
.undertake, 'were' insufficient,' he
, 10,0001. a-year, to accept.the Chancellotship Of the,
should give his vote for the Motion.
Mr. STURGES BOURNE, expressed his surp. rise
ere
Exchequer
to t h withem
. Theonly
precedent's of Lord LeChre
; 2,5001. he was not . much
and regret at the quarter froth which. the• Motion obliged
and Lord Ashburton were irrelevant. When Lord
peoceeded, and: his astonishient at the quarter frOM
Lechmere *as made a Peer, some addition to his in-
. which it was seconded ;he was surprised at the quer- "
come became necessary ; and Mr. Dunning, by be-
that in consequence of his close acquaintance with ter wheece the Motion proceeded, because he thought
ing created Lord Ashburton; was put out of the
his Hon. and Learned Friend, the Learned Gentle- Way of , advancing in his profession, unless •• by the
'death of Lord Mansfield.. Mr. Dunning's whole
man opposite would be fully sensible of the cha- '
racer, of the talents; and above all, of the disin- life had been spent in opposition to the Servants of
terestedness of his Honourable Friend. Yes, he the Crown; but he never would admit that such an
Would repeat it, a long and intimate' acquaintance opposition to the Servants of the Crown was not
convinced him that a• more honourable hide-
compatible with the ,Most steady loyalty and elle-
• '
pendent,and disinterested meta never existed. Were glance to the Sovereign. The Crown was better
s
his Hon. Friend even to obtain both the situations, served by seat men than by others, and it was high-
ly Honourable, that after Mr. Dunning'
he Would make a much larger sacrifice than what s famous Re-
Solution, be wasmade a Cabinet Minister, and had
was usually made' on such occasions. The value of
the Chancellorship orthe Duchy of Lancaster was
the grant of the Chancellorship of the Duchy of Lan-
about 20001, a year, and for this his Hon. Friend caster. It was painful for him to pursue the subjea
of the sacrifices of the Learned Gentleman; since that
gave up all the bright Prospeaas that were opening
Learned Gentlernan.came into Parliament, he had
to him from his profession. It did not become hith •
seldom-been out of office. First, he was Solicitor-
. to say any thing of the cause of the change of the
General,. then be-was Attorney7General under Lord'
late Administration. He could not refrain, bow- ..
Sidinouth's Admit.istration, and subsequently with
ever, from declaring his surprise aS the notice given
Mr. Pitt when be returned to office, For a little
by a Noble Lord tbr to-morrow, for that Noble Lord more than a year, indeed, the Learned Gentleman
. must • be well aware that not (see of those persons,
who alone had breathed the chill air of that side of the House;
' could know thecircumstances,, could, by which did. scentt, however, scent to eeree with Lis
any possibility, be present. , . . I les or his constitution; and he bee therefore re-
and(.ll 0
Mr. SHARP contended, that the case in 1783 gained that happy spot, in which he would enjoy a
the present- were totally ' dissimilar. Lord Asia- • had not been induced to
E more congenial temperature. The wish, however,
UKTO,DI take possession of of the Learned Gentleman to obtain a, permanent
one place by another being offered to him, but that'
another had been given as a compensation for'the incemes seemed to imply that he anapeCted e lack
loss of the most lucrative employment. It woul efaperrnapency in
,pi officiel'situation. f' But,' it
dbe -
was Said, “ it you deprive his Majesty of the-Learns
trious impossible to compare the emoluments of that Hies-
.
ed Getitlenem, yhti.deptive him of the only Neilson
person, who bad been solong at the. head of
•
his profession, with the emoluments of the Learned fit to -be Chancellor of the Exchequer." Now,w
Admieistratiod be could not
e how ever great the Learned Gentle Man's talents, vet
- Gentleman, of whom, till he became Attorney-Ge-
in. defenc of the ne
neral, the Courts of Law. had noeheard much. . . • ..s remark :he was not aware
allow the lustice of phis Mr. MONTAGUE knew it For a distinct fea, '
how many old or new Solicitors and. Attorneys Ge-
that his Learned Friend made more by his profession ' nerel—how many new and worked-up Masters; of
-outeof office, than he would Make with sboth his of the Rolls
.existed
.among the Gerillenien of:whom.
faces together. This must be. obvious to averse-fair 'the new Adininisiration evas. formed: but if they
man, althougo it was tint. to the Gentheree'n
swarmed with any thing it must be with ChanCel-
! opposite. , .
. fors of the Exchequer When hie Noble Friend
Lord Howlett spoke to Order. It was oaten-rely propesed a•Plan of Finance, which tnet wish his.
irregnlar to- impute unfairness to 'any- Menileisra

warm approbation, every day produced a new ChAn-
Cellar of the Exchequer ; they came like Jews with
their budget's strapped round their.'ShatilderS, crying
out " Here's ray Plan !-4tere areinyitegolutronst:
Evens .a gallant Baronet (Sir J. Pultene)•); for whom
:he professed gre,ff resped, appeared prepared to be
Chancellor of the Exchequer. As he had
:not been
appointed to that Office, perhaps it might be Meant
to make the gallant Baronet Attorney-General.. For
his part, he thought there could be no difficdity on
this,subjea ; -bot it lamentably turned out, that nut
an -individual was to be found qualified for this Of,
fice (which only required a knowledge of the three
first rules of arithmetic, and a little Plausibility of
statement) except one, who Would not accept it,
unless accompanied by the unconstitutional'grant of
another place. for life ; and this was the Ex-Attor-
ney-General, who certainly, had made an admirable
Attorney-General, bdt from whom he had *never
heard a single word on Finance ! NO sophistry
could do away this fa&—that those with wham
had the. honour ,to .aa retired from -office without
,having secured a single penny for themselves---Whilo
.their. successors were unable even to forM an Admi-
nistration without the a&ual promise of, lark.: and
undeserved emoluments. -

Mr,;,./0/YLVSTONE, • in explanation, stated that.
what the Hon. Gentleman had thought proper toas-
sert, with respect to. him, was !lilt - consistent witti
fa6t„ lle had not employed the Hon. Gentlema'n- to
be the bearer of a message intimating his readiness to
accept employment under the late Administration :-
Ist, because theffon. Gent. was too busy in provid-
ing for himself and ,hiS family, and,-2dly, because if
he had not been so busy in that way he would pro-
bably have forgotten-- any-message Intrusted to, him.,
But he did' tell -the Honourable Gentleman, that ho
had communicated to another Han. dentleman, now
no more, at
.the comineucement of the:late Admi-
nistration, that if there was ,any office without a
salary annexed,' in which his labours might be use-
ful to the country, his services were at his disposal.
Mr. SHERIDAN, in explanation, expressed an
unwillingness to fix any imputation on- the Hon..
Gentleman. As -some persons wished fir emolu-
ments, so others wished for honour or patronage. It
was. not for him to say of what-description the Hon.
Gentlenlin was. :With resped to the charge of his
(Mr. Sheridan) being busy in providing for himself
and his funilv, the fact: was, that his Hon. Frieni!,
who 'was now unhappily no more (Mr. Fog),
thought;: that after -a service, he hoped not
meritorious,' of twenty-seven 'years in Parliament;
some-provision for life ought to be made for hini. It
had happened rather singularly, that his lion. Friend
had intended, that the office thal had been so much
:spoken of this night, the Chancellorship of the
Duchy of ' Lancaster, Should' be appropriated to.
that provision : 'but, on consulting with his Col-
leagues, his Honourable Friend found that they had
formed a ,determination' not to grant for life this
office,: or any other usually held during pleasure,—
Oii beincr informed of this determination, he entreat+
ed' his ITon, Friend by no means to press the matter,
and thus he remained' without a provision for life,
and this office was_ reserved for the disposal of the
New Ministers.

.Mr. SIMEON thought the right of granting the
office in question 'for life ought not .to be much
exercised.

Mr. FULLER said, there was no doubt that the
King had, by the Constitution, the right to give that
place for lite if be chose ; but his, advice to his Ma-
jesty would be, not to give it. Let him keep the
key of the oat sliest himself, and deal it out as it was
wanted. His Majesty's servants would not 'serVe hitn
if their wants were not supplied, and 'therefore he
should keep in his ONVII hands the means of serving
them.

. ~.
Mr. WILBERFORCE was sure that there was
no person who possessed a higher degree of disin-
terestedness or liberality than" the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman • who would be particularly aireaed by.
this Motion, He hardly eXpekted the Hon. Gentle-
man would ;have rendered the motion necessary. He
bad hoped, that when he should have been informed
of the notice of the motion he would have surrendered,
the office, even if he had accepted it. The argn--
ments that had been adduced by some against the
Motion operated in favour of it with him. What had
been done by former Administrations in granting
this office for life, had been much censured and
complained of at all times, as tending to diminislithe
poWer of the Crown to dispose of offices and emo-
luments as times and circumstances may require.-
The present was a time of acknowledged difficulty,
and therefore he wished the Government and the
Parliament to stand high with the public. He wish--
ed to have no room fur the suspicion of a mean
or mercenary spirit in the Government, no room
for the suspicion of a disposition to _countenance
such a spirit in the Parliament. The public- was
of itself too much disposed to suspea the -mo-
tives and the disposition o.f those entrusted witti,
the administration and superintendance of its affairs.
The peculiar - circumstances of the. present time
I strengthened his determination to vote in favour of
I the Address.' If such a Motion were made and fie-
! gatived,i it would optSrate as ail encouragement to
the unrestrained indulgence of this praAiceof grant-
.
uvr offices for life.
the MASTER If the ROLLS looked upon this
• - as-a question of great and general magnitude. He
had not had leisure to inquire what places were usual-
' ly granted for life, and what places were granted
only.during pleasure. He did conceive it possible
that many places were granted for.life which ought
to be granted only during pleasure, and that- Many
were granted only during pleasure which ought to be
granted for life. There were also places which ought
to be entirely at the diSposal of the Crown, and •
I with which Parliament ought not to interfere in any
manner Whatsoever. The House was now going to
. decide on .• question which involved all those
. considerations Without- any inquiry whatsoever.-
1, He wished the question had been brought forward At
any other time; for, -however rightly and dispassion-
; ately it •may decide now, the public would not give
creditAo it- for having decided with so much proprie-
'' ty; - Sufficient opportunities had occurred before if
' Parliament had thoitght proper ro enter into this in-
vestigation. This very Office had been before granted
for:life, and' no proceeding had been taken upon
it. The Address alluded to'did not determine in either
way. It merely went 'to prevent any grant of the
'- office -for life till a Bill which was, then • pending
for merging•the Wetly of Lancaster in the Crown
should be disposed of. The restrktion was to last
bat a Month, and thy very words of it, restrAninz

a-grant of the. orrice fo life 'for that time, implied
that the right to grant it f-ir life. should revive at the
expiration of that tithe, if the Duchy slioul.d not be
merged in ,the Crown by the' passing of the
Bill. It was certain that lrrger means -of mak-
ing grants would bp supplied' to the Sovereign by
restraining grants for life, and the grantees would be
kept in a greater state of dependence ; but the discre-
tion of making the grants would be limited and 're-
strained., He .represented the impropriety of adapt-
ing a general regulation in a particular case. If
the office was at all .to be given for life, the House
was not to interfere with-the judgment of the King
as to the occasion on which it may be so grant-
ed. Was it meant to say, that on the occasion
-on which Lord Rockingham, Lord -Lansdowne,
and 11Ir. Fox, approved the grant for. life,
it was perfealy right, but that it could not be so in
any other 'circumstances ? Why was-not •the pre-
sent motion brought for Ward in the last Administra-
tion -? Now it was entangled in. the present state
‘of affairs, with the situation of the individual to
whom it was prOposed to grant the office, and. with'
the forthation of a New Administration. In quit-
ting his profession it was to be considered that the
Honourable and learned, Gentleman gave up not
only his present profits- M that profession, but -his
prospect of the highest honours in that profession, -
which he was well entitled to look forward to. He
was nnwillingto adopt a restriction, which could be
departed front in no cise, even though 'to-morrow a
case of the utmost propriety for a gr. nt for life should
occur. There was no Resolution o: the Committee
of Finance recommending this restriaioti. He would
not go into the question of the merits of the two
Administrations ; but, frdm all that be had stated,
be wishd the House to abstain -from coming to the •
Resolution. •
Lord HO/I'/6'k, though he had been several

times personally tb' in the course of this de-
bate, w Wleil altogether to have abstained .from en:-
tering this night into the, explanation which he had
thought proper to reserve for a future occasion ; and
therefor he would have been silent, but for. the ne-
cessity of answering one or two things that had fallen
from the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. The
Right Hon. Gentlemen-obje6ted to the motion, be-
cause it went to put a general liMitation upon the
Crown, on the spur of a particular occasion. He
. would pot enter into any arguMent With the Learned
Gentleman ; but if it was true 'that the CroWn had
not the right to grant for life what was usually
granted only during pleasure, it was no restraint
upon the prerogative to advise the King not to de
upon this particular.occasion what had been gene-
rally not done. •As to tl,lose places 06‘v granted• for
life, which may better be granted only during plea-
sure, and those offices granted only during pleasure,
• which may be with more propriety granted for life,
it may be very right to pass an At of Parliament
on that head, such as that of King "William for
establishing the Judges for life. But, according
,es
the case, stood at present, it would be very wrong to
san6lionan unlimited discretion: For in that case
the office of Chancellor 'of the Exchequer may be
granted for life, and *so may that of Lord High Chan-
cellor. For Coke said of that high office, tha it
was one granted by patent during pleasure, that it
had somet Lines been granted for a term of years,
a,nd once for life : but the grant was holden
void, because an ancient office must be holden
according' to the ancient custom. So if the office now
under consideration had not been usually granted for
life, the Motion now before the House did not go to
restrain 'or confine the prerogative, but to regulate the
exercise of: it according to the usage of the best of
times. It had been disputed whether the grant for life
to Lord Ashburton was according to law ; and, with

all the venera:ion he had for the hTot • narneSby'whoSe
0
authority that transaction was san6tioried, Lord Rock-
- ingham,- whom he was too .young to have the
loges of knowing, and Lord LansdoWnei 'whom he
knew and admired, and revered, yet with all his ve-
neration for these exalted persons, and with all the'

distinct nature's which the case of Lord:AshbUrfon
hadsin its favour,' he was inclined to think that the
lb grant to him was neither conStitutinnal nor politically
expedient. The Right lion. and Learned Gentleman
said it was proper to make a provision for thoSe who
'gave up professional pursuits to accept politiCal offices.
He knew of no instance in which that principle had
been recOL;nized.--(Some Gentlemen mentioned across
the Tal..le the case of Lord Grantley:)Lord Grant-
. ley had been brought frun the profession' of the law"
to fill the Chair of that }louse, like the distincruihed

person who now filled it so respeaably; an :intimate
knowledge of the law being thought- desirable in a
Speaker,,and it was in consideration of that that a
provision had been made 'for him. So it was when.
a person was removed from eminent pra6lice at the
bar to be Lord Chancellor, it, was thought Tight •to
annex to the -appointment a contingent provision for.
.life, to .commeike on the termination of the tempo.:
racy possession Of the office.. With all' due respe&-
fofthe Hon. Gentleman who had been partieularly
alluded to this night, it would he gAite ridiculous
-comparehtm with Mr. Dannirig If We were going to
.inake use of the Hon. Gentleman's legal talents, he
would have no objection to grant him .a.provision. 'lf
_the Hon. Gentleman • were to be made Lord-Chan,
cellor, he' would have no objeElion. But ihOngh
the- Hon. Gentleman liid distinQovished himself
Tire in the House than at the Bar,he could not-say
th.,:t hid done any thing to entitle.him to such a
provision. it happened singularly, too, that the.
llonoura'bie Gentleman was •the man of all others
who .had least distinguished himself -on finance. If
the Honourable Gentleman chose the career of
~oltics.in preference to that of law; he-should take.
;it sobjeCl to all its Tisques: 'The. vain -and arrogant
boast of possessingr, all the talents of the -coUntry,
had beet:. uniformly disclaimed by hith and the
i,Z.oble and Honourable-persons Cotireled with him. •
BLit It suited the purposes of newspaper libellers. to
fasten on them the boast so often disclaimed, and to
repeat it with mai icions -obstinacy and falsehood. He
must, however, take leave to observe, that it afforded
but a weak specimen indeed of the talents of the new
Administration, if they could not find a Chancellor
of the Exchequer witli.out having recourse to 'the
_Law for him. He had mucb more to Earl on this
question ; but it had been so ably opened by Ins
Honourable and Learned -Friend 'near and
• by those other Gentlethen who had spoken for
the first time this night, and who gave happy
a promise of future ellPtienre, that it wis Unneces-
fiary for to add much .to what he had. said.
A Gentleman bad observed; that
,only one Dever-
inn had been in tIC-e,pqwer Of;:tbe late:Adininistra

tion ; but he t ould inform that Gentleman and the
House, that -another very valuable one also had
fallen in in the course of the last week. Another
Honourable --Gentleniant alluded to what he had
said last night of the' reversion granted in -the
Court of Chancery.. The Offices of that Court, and
the other Courts of Law, were considered as en-
tirely under the patronage of their several Judged.
The Committee ofFinance had so considered them,
and he wished to put this distin&ion between those
offices and those under the Government in general.
He thought also, that the discretion of the Lord.
Chancellor had not been improperly exerted, in
making such a use of his private pate/nage to pro-
vide for his Clerk, who while he was in such
extensive pra&ice at t4.'Bar, had a Considerable
income from that situnion ; but who, by his
Lordship's removal from the Bar was left desti-
tute, unless this provision had been made for him.
Another thing that ought not to pass without an an-
swer was, the suggestion made by an Hon. Gentle-
man-of the propriety of the notice he had given for
tomorrow, of the explanation .which he had- pro.mised of certaiu recent and important occurrences.
The Honourable Gentleman suggested the prcipriety
of his abstaining from that explanation in the ab-
sence of' those who alone on that side of the House
cotild be conversant with the circumstances to which
his explahation would relate. He was sorry to be
obliged
,to bring forward his statement in the ab-
sence of any one particularly qualified to canvass
what he should state. He had been always anxious
for the arrival of the time when he should be at 'li-
berty to explain his coeduci fully. He was not at
liberty to explain ;t sooner, and it was impossible
'now that he should agree to suffer the holidays to
pass over, and to allow the false and injutious state-
ment that had .gone abroad with respea to him to
circulate; vithout refutation, or even contradiEtion. 1
If there could be any doubt of the prOprie.ty of the
re-.,olution he had taken, that doubt must -have been

entirely removed, by his 'having seen in a News-
paper of this day, -a • Letter quoting the; sub-
stance of a Cabinet minute, Commenting on it, and

distorting it with fake-interpretation and Kase colour-
ing. When he saw matters of this kind brought
forward in such a manner, in breach of conlitfenee,
and in breach of trot h, justice, and honour, was it
right- for Intn'to sutfer this Newspaper writer to pro-
ceed uninterrupted with his false representations,
and to blacken and calumniate his condett without
• the least restraint or contradittion during the ,whole
of the holidays. This was the reason why he had
determined to give his ei9lanatiOn to-morrow; and
he asked whether it was consistent with honour or

propriety, with what he owed to himself and to the

House,
H and to the country, to sutler time to elapse
after so injurious an attack, bad been made upon him.
Let those who could, controvert what he had to state.
—He should say nothing but what would be con-
sistent with truth, and what he would support aid
make good to the .satisfaetion of the House and of
the People.

Mr. &TURGES BOURNE, in explanation, said,
he had expresSed some surprise that the Noble
should think of bringing forward his explanation in
the absence of those who alone could know on that
side of the -House the circumstances to which the
Noble Lord would have to advert. The Noble
Lord would not suppose surely that he had any thing
to do with the Publication alluded to by the Noble
Lord : he-assured him he knew nothing of it. He
had no .idea that the. Noble Lord would depart
from:stria propriety in the statement he meant to
make" to-morrow. But as he knew nothing of
what the Noble Lord had in his mind, and. what
was the
_reaon-- of his determination, the Noble
Lord would not be surprised that he had questioned
the propriety ()tottering to make the explauatinn in
the absence of all other persons acquainted with the
circumstances.

Colonel GRAbi!i.M supported the Motion•

The question being then.lundly called for, a divi-
sion took place.—Ayes for the Address 208—Nues
against it 115—Majority 93.
While the suppOrterS of the-Address were in the
lobby, order was :ailed, and Lord Howlck addresSed
them as foiloWs •

" Gentlemen--4 understand that it is intended to
propose to-morrow, that the House should, at its
' rising, adjourn for a Much longer time than is usual
• at this period of the Session, or than I think con-
sistent with the.present state of affairs, or with my
views Of the public interest: '-;The adjournment
which is to be proposed is to'next Monday fortnight.
- It is my intention;• on the grounds I have mention-
ed, to oppose that motion, and to propose, by Way
'of amendment, Unless, as:l hope, it may be proposed
by 'somebody a 40,, , that. 'no longer adjournment
• should take place than till Mpnday se'nnigbt at far-
thest. As there will certainly be a division Upon
:this qnestion, and, in all probalitiity, an early one, I
hope Gentlemen will feel the propriety of a full and
-early attendance."

On the re-admission of, strangers, 'we found that
-the Address had -been ordered to-he carded tip by
,such Members oft he How,e vl4O were -of his Majes-
ty's Privy Council:

The 'SPEAKER wished to observe, .•that the
House should not come to .a decision that a breach
f their priviteges bad been committed, without or-
eering the person who had been guilty of that breach
into custody. This was the pra&ice of the House
in such cases, however short the time for which the
offender should be committed.

• ,
Mr. TIER NEY thought that there was no breach'
of privilege, where no intention appeared of coin--
miffing such a breach._ _

Mr. M. A. TAYLOR bore testimony to the re-
spe&ability of Mr. Alcock's charmer, and was sure
his Hon. Friend (Mr. Dent) would not persist is any
thing harsh or severe.

Strangers were now ordered 'v." withdraw; and
were not re-admitted during the remainder 'of the
sitting ; but after some further 'debating upon the
question, we understand that Mr. Alcock was taken
into custody,' and a few minutes after .called to the
Bar of the House, where he,was reprimanded by the
Speaker; after. which he was ordered to be dig:.
charged on paying his fees.—Adjourned at. twelve
o'clock.

MAILS.
ARRIVED-1 HUSUM, i Dublin. Dut-3 COttenbUrgh,
1 Lisbon, t Dublin, 3 Waterford.

PRICE OF STOCKS
TIM DAY- AT TWELVE O'CLOCK. •
Consols - - •6z I Onanium - -4, pr.

THE SUN.

SOLtM QUtS DICtRt IikL:SVM,AVaILtT?