The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-19 00:00:00

PRINCE LEOPOLD'S ANNUITY.

Lord ALTHORP then went on to say, that he would
take that opportunity to call the attention of the House to
a very different subject. In consequence of the accession
of Prince Leopold to the Throne of Belgium, some ex-
pectations had been held out respecting the annuity en-
joyed by his Royal Highness. That annuity, however,
was completely the property of his Royal Highness—
(Hear, hear)—and had been settled on him by Act of
Parliament. It was impossild., notwithstanding those
expectations, that the King's Ministers should take any
step to induce his Royal Highne-s to make such a sacrifice.
He had the satisfaction to state to the House, that his
Royal Highness had taken such a step of his own accord.
He had written a letter to Earl Grey, and he could not do
better than read that letter to the House. The Noble
Lord accordingly read the letter (for which, see our report
of the proceedings in the Lords). [lt was received with
loud cheers.] Lord Althorp continued—He had also to
state to the House that his Royal Highness had also signified
to Lord Hill, the Commander-in-Chief, that he placed at.
his disposal the regiment which his Royal Highness coin-
mande,l in this country. He was sure that the House
would do justice to the great liberality of his Royal High-
ness's conduct.—(Hear.)
Mr. G. ROBINSON had intended to ask a question
on the subject of the Noble Lord, and was very glad to
find that his intention was prevented.
Sir R. PEEL was sure that there could be but one
unanimous feeling in that House at tl:e extreme liberality
of his Royal Highness. He was glad too that the Hon.
Gentleman had not had an opportunity to ask the question.
His Royal Highness had as clear a right to retain Isis an-
nuity as any Nobleman bad to the revenue derived from
his estate. It bad been settled on him when he married
the heir presumptive to the throne. As he was not called
on to make the resignation, it was, 'on the part of his
Royal Highness, a purely voluntary act. At the same time
he believed that the act was a wise one, and would ensure

for his Royal Highness the affections of the people. It was
an act of unexampled generosity.—(Hear, hear.) .
Sir G. WARRENDER also expressed his satisfaction
at hearing this communication, which would add to the
admiration which was already felt for his Royal Highness.
Mr. G. ROBINSON explained.
IRISH YEOMANRY.

Mr. O'CONNELL wished to advert to a subject in
which he felt a deep interest. When the subject of the
Irish Yeomanry was formerly before the House, be had
understood that the Right Hon. Gintleman had pledged
himself that the issuing of arms to the Orange Yeomanry
should be discontinued. But he had been informed, that
on the 11 th of July a new company had been formed,
called the Ogle Blues, and had received arms from the
Government. That company did not stand high in the
estimation of the County Wexford, in which it was formed.
However, on the 11th of July it received its arms in the
city of Wexford—they had gone up the river afterwards
in a boat, bearing Orange flap, firing shots on- both sides
of the river, and with a band playing party tunes. Such
was the pledge which he understood had been given, and
such was the manner ;n which it had been redeemed.
More blood had been shed in Ireland. At Banbridge four
men and one woman had been shot, and it was said that
two or three Orangemen had been shot. The latter was
doubtful, but it was quite certain that the Catholics had
been killed. In the county of Enniskillen, General
Officers had joined the procession of the Orangemen in
their regimentals; and how was it possible, he would ask,
to preserve tranquillity in Ireland if such things were
practised, and arms given were put into the hands of one
party ? That more blood had been shed was not, he
believed, the fault of the Catholics, who had acted
with a forbearance which entitled them to the protection of
Government. In Enniskillen the proclamation bad been
disregarded, and disregarded by the Magistrates, who had
attended the procession which the proclamation forbad,
As Lord Redesdale said long age, there was in Ireland one
law for the poor, and another for the rich. In Ireland,
too, bah these laws were ill executed. There ,was one
law for one class, and another law for another class of his
Majesty's subjects. Let the House look at what had hap-
pened at Newtownbarry. The Government, indeed, had
done its duty on that occasion, and deserved his thanks.
But what had happened there? Why the private yeo..
foamy bad been sent to gaol, while the officer, he who
had given orders to fire, according to the testimony of
three or four witnesses, was let out on bail. This was
extraordinary, too, because, of the three Magistrates who
had conducted the investigation, two were for committing
all the parties to gaol, but three or four Magistrates were
let in from the county, and they over-ruled• the decision
of the two Magistrates who had gone through the whole
investigation. That fact made only one of a family, and
it might give the House a clew to the disturbances in
Ireland. One class of persons despised the proclamation
of the Lord-Lieutenant—acted against it—encouraged
processions, and saw the land deluged with blood. Ought
these M igistrates, ought the people who do these things,
to be entrusted with arms? On such a subject it was
impossible for the representatives of Ireland to do their
duty and remain silent. The processions of the Catholics
were not joined by any one gentleman of family or influ-
ence ; they were exclusively processions of the people ;
but the instant the proclamation was issued, the Catholic
gentlemen used their influence and succeeded. There
were no processions this year of the Catholics. The Ca-
tholic population had obeyed the Government; the loyal
population—the population who called themselves exclu-
sively the friends of the Government—had disobeyed the
law and defied the proclamation. He felt it his duty
to ask, therefore, if he hail misunderstood the Right Hon.
Gentleman, and if he had not pledged himself that no
more arms should be issued to the yeomanry. If the
Right Hon. Gentleman bad, as he understood, given such
a pledge, he was sure that it was not the fault of the
Right Hon. Gentleman if arms had since been issued to
the yeomanry..
Mr. STANLEY, passing over all that the Hon. and
Learned Member bad said about there being one law for the
rich and another for the poor, meant to reply to the three or
four questions which the lion. and Learned Gentleman had
put to him. With respect to the first question put by the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman relative to the Ogle Blues,
it was the first time he had ever heard of the existence of
that corps. With regard to the pledge, he would repeat
it again. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman would re-
collect that, in the month of Match last, fresh arms were
issued to the yeomanry, as such as were damaged and un-
serviceable were returned into the stores of the Govern-
ment. When the conduct of the yeomanry had 'been
complained of, orders were given by the Government that
arms should not he issued again to the yeomanry till fur-
ther orders. It was 'the first time he had heard of the
Ogle corps, and the first time he had heard of issuing arms
till the 12th of July. He hoped the information was
incorrect. With respect to Newtownbarry, the Govern-
ment had employed a stipendiary Magistrate to investigate
the business, and in consequence of the information taken'
before him, forty-one individuls were implicated • seven of
these individuals were committed to gaol, and ;he others
were allowed to go at large on bail. With respect

to Capt. Graham, the evidence was so contradictory con-
cerning► him, that one or other of the parties must have
perjured himself. C:►ptain Graham was a gentleman of
good fortune, and, under these circumstances, the Magis-
trate bound over Captain Graham in 1,0001. and two
sureties of 5001. each ; and there was not the smallest
doubt that Captain Graham would appear at the Assizes
and take his trial. With respect to the affair at Banbridge
on the 12th of July, he was informed that it was a pre-
concerted affair between both the parties, who were de-
termined to fight it out. The Protestants were determined
to have the procession, and the Catholics were determined
to prevent it, and it was agreed between the two parties
that they should meet at a certain place and settle their
diarence by a fight. When the procession took place,
the pa►ty which attacked it were not of the neighbourhood,
hot a faction called the Threshers, that were wandering
about there, and laid wait for the procession• They were
regularly dislodged, and though a great many shots were
fired, he believed that no person was killed, and that those
who died were drowned in the river. He had not heard
that any person had died of a gun-shot wound, though
three or four hundred shots were fired. A stipendiary
Magistrate was sent down from the Castle to inquire into
the matter, but a Coroner's inquest, composed of six
Catholics and six Protestants, bad found such a verdict
that it was unnece.sary. With regard to the processions,
the Government had expressed astrong feeling on the sub.
ject ; but it must be remembered that there was no law
which made the Orange processions illegal. The Govern-
ment had discouraged such processions, but did not think
it necessary to resort to any new laws for this purpose.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought it was the duty of the
Legislature to provide by law for putting an end to these
processions. It was now more than a century since the
events they were meant to commemorate happened, and
it was time they were laid aside. If the battle of Culloden
had been commemorated every year till now, would Scot-
land have enjoyed tranquillity ?

The LORD ADVOCATE had heard of the unhappy
affray to which the Han. Member had alluded. It arose
from a procession which took place at Girvan on the 12th
of July, when several bands of Orangemen had resolved
to have a procession. Some stones were thrown, and on
two constables stepping forward to remonstrate with the
Orangemen, the latter fired at them, and one of the
constables was instantly shot. More shots were fired, and
several persons were wounded. He did not wish to enter
further inro the subject, as it was his duty, and the duty
of those who exercised his authority in his absence, to in-
stitute a public inquiry into this transac:.ion.
Mr. JOHN WOOD had heard from good authority
that Magistrates and officers wearing their regimentals had
mingled with these processions ; and he would assert, that
if any man bearing his Majesty's Commission, whether
civil or military, joined these processions, he ought in-
stantly to be deprived of that Commission, and turned out
of his Majesty's service.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. STANLEY had not heard of Magistrates being
concerned in these processions ; and he could only say,
that if any person under the authority of Government took
part in these processions, the Government would know how
to deal with him, and would most assuredly punish him:
Mr. COLE said a few words in defence (as we under-
stood) of the Fermanagh Yeomanry, but we were unable
distinctly to understand the Hon. Member.

Mr. GEORGE DAWSON did not wish to prolong the
discussion, but he really could not hear the recommendations
of the Right Hon.. Member for Waterford (Sir John New-
port), backed as they were by the Hon. Member for Pres-
ton (Mr. Wood), without entering against them his
strongest and most earnest protest. He believed, from his
knowledge of the Orangemen of the North of Ireland, that
any attempt to put them down and to prevent their pro-
cessions by legislative enactments would utterly fail.--
( Hear, hear, from Mr. O'Connell.) The Hon. Member
for Kerry cheered that, he might do so with good reason,
for no one had been snore successful in violating the law,
as a member of illegal associations, than that Hon. Mem-
ber.—(Hear, hear.) He repeated, however, his firm con-
viction that the Orangemen were not to be put down in
that manner, and that nothing would be more likely to
perpetuate the evils of processions than to attempt to put
down, by the means of legislative enactments, those privi-
leges which they believed themselves to have derived from
their forefathers, who shed their blood to obtain -them.
He was no Orangeman himself, but he knew much of
them from his connexion with the county of Derry, and he
believed he could say with truth, that in the north of Ire-
land,
and particularly in that part of it to whiCh he be-
longed, there was the strongest disposition to comply with
the views of the Government, and to put an end to all pro-
cessions.—(Hear.)

Mr. HUME said, that all the evils of the system of
Orangeism in Ireland proceeded from the Ministers who
permitted- it to continue, and not from the ignorant and
misguided men who took part in the processions. He
certainty hoped better from the present Government, who
uniformly held, when out of office, that those party dis-
tinctions were illegal and impolitic, and should at all ha-
zards be got rid of. From the former Government he
expected nothing of that kind, because they had always
shown a desire to support Protestant ascendancy. Here
they bad 800 or 900 men assembled with arms for the
purpose of celebrating this anniversary, and he thought
that every drop of blood that was shed should be atoned
for by those who suffered these arms to remain in their
hands, rather than by those ignorant and misguided men
who used them.—(Hear.) He understood it to be a fact,
that of twenty-one stipendiary Magistrates appointed to
preserve the.peace of Ireland. there was not even one Ca-
tholic. Why did not the Government act impartially ?
Sir ROBERT BATESON deprecated the use of such
language respecting the Orangemen of Ireland, and pro-
tested against their being put down vi et arniis because
they wished to celebrate the 12th of July as their fore-
fathers-had done before them. He was sure that no such
plan would succeed, and he hoped that the Government
would not consent to put an end to the office of Lord
Lieutenant, and thereby give an additional argument to
those who wished to bring about a separation of the two
kingdoms.
Mr. GOULBURN defended the late Government from
the imputation cast on it by the Member for Middlesex
(Mr. Hume), and observed, that if that Hon. Member
had taken the trouh:e to make himself acquainted with
the subject, and looked into the Statute-book before he
made his accusation, he would have found that the late
Government did all in its power to put an end to the
Orange Associations, and passed an Act for the express
purpose of putting down all such Associations which were
at that time bound together by illegal oaths.-.-(llear.)
Mr. RUTHVEN strongly censured the conduct of the
Orangemen, and observed that in one instance, when he
had occasion to interfere at a time when disturbances were
apprehended, the principal persons among them read a war-
rant from the Duke of Cumberland, as Grand Master,
which they thought gave them a right to continue their
illegal proceedings. He was convinced, indeed, that but
for the countenance afforded them by the Government,
these Associations would long since have been put down,
and all party spirit extinguished.
After a few words from Mr. RICE, Captain GORDON,
and Mr. PEnniN, the discussion _terminated by Mr.
STANLEY intimating his intention to go on with the Re-
gistration of Arms' Bill after the Committee of Supply.
SUPPLY.—SIR-A. B. KING.

of Supply,
DAWSON said, that as the speech of the Noble
,Mr. DA motion for the House going into a Committee
Lord King had produced a great impression the other even.
B.
On(ti.heithorp) on the question of the patent of Sir A.
he felt it necessary to make one or two observations
inno-nr on the statements which were contained in it. The
Noble Lord had argued as if the Committee on the Irish
Miscellaneous Estimates in 1829 was not in possession of
the patent by which Sir Arthur Bradley King held his
office of King's Stationer during pleasure. The patent
bad be'" printed by order of the House twice—in 1817
„d 1819. Now, on referring to the volume of their
he found a'note in the hand-writing of the Clerk
oJnfo Journals, '
Committee in question, requesting the Librarian to
send the volume in which the patent was to be found.
The fact was that it laid on the table fol.• several days, and
that the Committee must, therefore, have been perfectly
cognisant of it. lie had made this statement in justice to
the Committee, and to relieve the Government of that day
from the charges which had been brought against them
by the Hon. and Learned Member for Newark, which
charges he was sure the Hon. and Learned Member would
now withdraw.
Lord AI.THORP, as he was not a Member of the Com-
mittee question, of course had made his statement the
other evening in
evening on information derived from others. He
had taken the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown
on the subject. The grounds on which they have decided
were not those to which the Hon. Gentleman adverted.
Mr. GORDON maintained his former opinion. He
was a member of the Committee, and did not know any-
thing of the patent: and he believed the Hon. Secretary
of the Treasury near him was in the same situation. He
had read the two patents;
the one of the King's Printer,
and the other of the King's Stationer. The first was for
life—the second only during pleasure. Now, what vested
interest could there be in a patent during pleasure ?
Mr. DAWSON observed, that the patent held by the
King's Printer was not for life, but for forty years.
Mr. GORDON said, that, at any rate, it was not re-
vocable at pleasure, like the other.
.Mr. S. RICE could bear out the Hon.-Member for

Cricklade in his statement of the unacquainiance of the
Committee with the patent in question. He had attended
the Committee daily ; and he was perfectly apprised of the
fact, that the patent was during •pleasure. It was only
when by. the instructions of his NolA Friend, he had sub..
mitted the patent to the con'i•ieration of the Law Officers
of the Crown, that he became a vare that it was revocable.

Mr. Serjeant WILDE repeated his former arguments
on the subject ; and although he ha I a great respect for
many of the Members of the Government of that day,
thought it surprising that the attention of the Committee
in question had not been called to the patent.
Tim House then resolved itself into the Comenitt,te er
Supply.
Lord ALTHORP rose, in pursuance of his notice, to
trove a vote of 240,0001., to defray the charges hitherto
provided for out of the Civil List, but for which no spe-
cific provision had heretofore been made, and to snake good
such payments to the sth July inst. As he should have no
objection to refer the greeter part of the items of which
the proposed grant was compiled to tde consideration of
a Committee above stairs, where there precise nature may
be evp'ained, it would not be necessary for hi:n to trouble
the House at any length on the present occasion. '1 hos,
items were, principally, the salaries of the Lord Chancelita
and Judges of England, t•ee Civil List Pensions. the Sala
ries of the Lord Chancellor and Judges of Ireland, the•
salaries of the Commissioners of the General Assembly in
Scotland, the salaries of the Governors of the West India
Colonies, the expenses of the works at the various Palaces,
&e. He repeated, that lie would not go into the details
of these different items, because as they were to be referred
to a Committee above stairs, that could be better done
there. But it was only candid to state, that he did not
mean to refer the consideration of the Civil List Pension-
to the Committee. That was a question of principle., on
which it was for the House itself to pronounce. He bail
several times expressed his decided opinion on that question,
hut it would be for the House to determine respecting it.
The other questions, being matters of details, were fit for
the consideration of the Committee. The grounds of his
proposing this grant were, that the sums of which it was
composed were already due ; and, therefore, were not
liable to be refused by an ex-post facto denial. The Noble
Lord concluded by moving the resolution.
Mr. HUME rose, not to oppose the resolution, but.
as it was not the intention of Government to refer the
question of pensions to the consideration of the Com-
mittee, to lay in his claim not to be precluded by agree-
ing to the resolution from objecting to the grant respecting
the pensions, whenever that question should come before
the House.

Mr. GORDON thought it would have been better had
the Noble Lord divide; the resolutions into five different
votes. The vote for pensions was one which, in his opi-
nion, it was most important to submit to the consideration
of a question. Seventy-five thousand pounds had already
been voted for pensions. But when seventy-five thousand
pounds more was required, Parliament ought to pause, ;:s
those pensions were not irrevocable, being granted only
during the Yves of the grantor as well of the grantee. Be
sk9ul.l feel it his duty to object to the grant, unless
after inquiry.
Lord ALTHORP said it was not usual when a vote was
on account, to divide it under different heads. He did not
so divide it, because he did not expect that any of jection
would be made to the resolution.

Mr. ROBINSON observed, that the course taken by
his Majesty's Government was fraught with considerable
inconvenience. It had been successfully contended that
the pensions in question terminated with the life of his
late Majesty, and as the Noble Lord hid himself admitted
that there were many of them which ought never to have
been granted, he was at a loss to understand how he could
refuse to allow the subject to be referred to the consideration
of a Committee above stairs. The vote to which they were
then called upon to accede was for pensions in the
present reign ; and if those pensions were granted to July,
a precedent would be established for their continuance
Ile thought it would be better to strike the 75,0001. for
pensions out of the resolution, and give the balance. This
would compel Government to refer the pensions to a Se-
lect Committee. He was by no means desirous of strik-
ing off a single pension, for the continuation of which a
fair chins could be established ; but he was desirous that
the validity of the various claims should he investigated.
As nobody else had undertaken the task, he would move
to reduce the vote by 75,000/. ; with a view, should th.t
amendment be carried, of proposing the reference of the
pension list to a Select Committee.
Mr. HUNT cordially seconded the am. ndment ; which
he would have moved himself had the Hon. Member not
done so. The Hon. Members about him appeared to feel
some delicacy in opposing any of the measures of Govern-
ment. He felt no such delicacy whatever.—(A laugh.)
He would divide the Committee on the amendment.

Captain HARRIS remonstrated against the argument
that certain monarchial grants could be revoked, while
other monarchial grants could not be revoked.
Lord ALTHORP begged to observe, to the Hon.
Member for Worcester, that at any raie his amendment
should extend only to the sum of 56,5001. ; viz. 23,0001.
for Ireland, 29,0001. for England, and 3,5001. fur Scot-
land. He hoped, however, that the Hon. Gentleman
would not object to a grant which they were bound in
honour to vote. The Hon. Member talked of striking off
all the pensions which were not for public services. Now,
the object of voting a certain sum to the Crown, for the
purpose of granting pension?, had been to place that sum
at the discretion of the Crown ; and if some of those pen-
sions had been improperly granted, they had uo right to go
back, and deprive the holders of them.

After a few words fiom Mr. Alderman VIiNABLES)
which were not audib'e in the gallery,
Mr. BRISCOE did not feel he could, consistently with
the pledges of economy he had given, vote for the grant.
Mr. RICE said, that no gentleman, by giving his vote
in favour of Ministers, would be precluded from voting
for having the question referred to a Committee. •
Mr. GOULBURN was willing to support the vote
without discussion; but when the proper time came, he
would be ready to r; peat the assertion be had already
made, that the House had no right to refer the pensions
to a Select Committee with that view wherewith they
could alone he referred.

Mr. MILLS would vote no pension to any person who
bad not earned it by actual service.
_ _

Mr. ROI3INSOR withdrew his motion ; and begged
to substitute one to the effect—that the vote should be
reduced to 56,0001.
Mr. HODGES recommended the Hon. Member for
WOrcester not to press his motion to a division ; and de-
clared that he would support the referring the question of
the pensions to a Committee when the time came.

Mr. STRICKLAND would vote for the present mo-
tion, if the Ministry would enter into an engagement not
to oppose the reference to a Select Committee hereafter.
Mr. P. COURTENAY supported the present motion,
and stated his intention of opposing the Committee.
Mr. HUME said it would be an act of injustice to the
public, were Hon. Members to press their opposition to
the present vote without due notice, and in so small a
Housc. The grant was only temporary, and be had given
notice that when the proper time arrived he would him-
self propose the referring this Pension List to the Com-
mittee.

Lord ALTHORP stated that no gentleman would -be
precluded by this vote front moving to have the question
respecting the pensions referred to a Committee at a future
period. He, however, would give no pledge that he
would even assent to going into a Committee, or of re•
dining their pensions.
Mr. HUNT was in favour of the amendment.
Mr. WALL (as we understood) recommended the
withdrawal of the amendment ; but if driven to the ne-
cessity of dividing, he should vote for it rather than for the
original motion.•
After a few words from Sir JOll ti BURKE, which were
not audible,

Mr. O'CONNELL should have no objection to support
any one of those pensions which could be shown to rest
upon any claim of right founded upon services performed,
but he feared that too many of them were like the 58,0001.
Irish pensions, granted, almost without an exception, to
the relatives of Members of Parliament. The only one
of those pensions granted for real services was that to the
descendants of Admiral Rodney.

Mr. Serjeant WILDE, though as anxious as any Hon.
Member for the strictest economy, should still support the
present grant, in justice to those who might with full
reason have anticipated the payment of their pensions on
the faith of Parliamentary pledges; not that he thought
the present Parliament bound by all that the former Par-
liament had done ; yet the expenditure of persons deriving
those pensions had been formed upon the faith of former
grants, and a gaol might he the portion of many of them
if the grants were withheld or stopped without notice ;
but though under some obligations not to telt,c just
then, they were by no means bound to continue them in
time coming. There was a point upon which he wished
to obtain information from the Noble Lord, and he was
the more anxious to obtain a complete explanation upon
the subject, as in that part of the House they found the
utmost difficulty in hearing what fell from the Noble
Lord. He wished to know whether the 75,000/. formed
part of an arrangement with the Crown ? He was no:
aware of the circumstances under which those pensi,,n•
were granted, and he thought an authentic statement of
those circumstances necessary.
Lord ALTHORP expressed his regret that the Hon.

old Learned Gentleman shoubl not have heatd biro ' -
loon
farmer occasions. He should now proceed to starthe
.ircurnstances connected with the 75,000/. He perceived
e need not inform the Hon. arid Learned Gentleman that
raler Mr. Burke's Act a certain sum was placetf.at the
disposal of the Crown for the purpose of granting pen.
inns upon the Civil List. and it was to that he allude!
on a former night. That sum had been reduced, cr war
.mended to have been reduced to 140,000/. during tha
eign of the late King ;.hut Hon. Members must be FA war 4
!at
the legalcff,
whichct ofi teas
apts'nsgiroanne granted, and
ouid
thatextelyonl
hei reign every Civil
,ist was legally confined to the life of the Sovere'gn
whom the pensions on it were granted. In the reigns oF
Gear; e 111. and Gorge IV., however, and indeed at all
tines, it had been held that pensions were granted tntlit for
the life of the Monarch, but for the life of the pensioner.
Now, what he proposed in the presentreign was, that in-
s-ead of 140,0001., there should he a sum of 75,000/.
played at tire dispo,al of the Crown, and the remainder
axe 1 upon the consolidated fund. Tire effect of that
would be, that any pensions expiring upon the 75,0001.,
eft funds avail rhle for otter pensions, while from those
which fell in on the consolidated fund the public were re-
lieved.

Mr. JEPHSON observed that something had been said
respecting the claims of humanity in the present case; but
really, whenever a reduction of pensions was proposed, the
claims of humanity would be urged as grounds for conti-
nuance, and unless they made a beginning, the work of
reduction would never be advanced.
Sir C. WETIIERELL said, he and his Hon. Friends
near him were perfectly satisfied with the statement of the
Noble Lord, and their saying so was a proof that their
opposition to the Reform Bill Wad anything but factious.
After a few words from Mr. ROBINSON, the purport of
which Was not distinctly heard in 'the gallery,
Mr. MILLS observed, that those who had practical op-
portunities of being acquainted with the habits and cir-
cumstances of the lower orders, had observed, that of ►atc
years a change had taken place, amounting to almost a
complete demoralization_that there seemed to be an
earnest wish to come upon the parish as soon as possible.
He regretted to say that, amongst the upper classes, there
seemed to be something of the same sort of sentiment ; for
they all seemed anxious to come upon the Pension List as
soon as possible.

An Iforr. MEMBER. said it was no [water of surprise that
Hon. Members opposite should struggle so hard for tte con-
tinuance of the pension system, scch•g that they w.,re in
fict advocates in their own cause, they having themselves
the deepest interest in the result.

Lord G. LENNOX supported the reductions of pen-
sions; and felt rush pride in the reflection that he had
been one of a oFtjarity which took away the pensions of
the sons of two Cabinet Ministers.

Mr. CALLEY (as we understood) nrxt addressed the
ilosue ; but amidst such loud cries of " order," and so
much laughter, as to have been quite inaudible.
The Committee then divided—For the amendment, 41 ;
against it, and in favour of the original motion, 142.
AL.jority, 101.
The next vote was 41,0001. for Foreign and Secret
Service Monev.

Mr. HUME said, that as this country dealt above board,
he did not see, why we should pay for secret service money.
Mr. RICE said we were obliged lo do it, because other
countri-s would not be as much above lxiaril as ourselves,

Mr. HUNT thought it Idt,ly that a part of this money
went to Oliver, Castles, and Eilwarils, who lad b.en well
known as spies some years ago. He wished to know whether
the Iris') Secret Service Money had been lessened ?
Mr. RICE said that it was taken o❑ the avi rage.
Mr. O'CONNELL did not tee the necessity for s,ctet
,ervice money in Ireland at al!.
The vote was then agreed to.
The following items were then agreed to :-
104 3001. for Printing for the two Housesof Parliament,
129,471/. for Stationery.
15,000/. for the Extraordinary Expences of the Mint.
8 0001. for Expenres of the Prosecutions for Coining.
15,000/. for Law Expenee‘.
108,165/. for the Expellees of Convicts at Lome and
at 13.,rmuda.

25,000/. was voted to defray the Expenses of capturel
Negroes, after a few words from Mr. Wsrd, Mr. Bur-
ridge, Mr. Hume, and Mr. Spring Rice ; who stated
that the subject of the slave trade was under the consi-
deration of Government.

19,4501. was next voted fir the Salaries of Commis-
sioners, &c., appointed under Treaties with Spain and
other Powers, respecting the Slave Trade.

112,1951. for Conlulls, Ycc., was the next yaw proposed ;
and was postponed, after a short conversation, because the
Secretary of State for Foreizu Affairs was not in the House.
120,0001. was the next Vote, on account of Expellees at
New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land.

Mr. lIUME 4.bjecled to the Vote, that the House kncr.r
nothing of the Colonial expenditure, though the House
had been promised a Colonial Budget last year. Ile
did not know why such a Budget was not brought for-
ward, nor what the Secretaries fir the Colonies were
doing.—(A laugh.)

I.;rd ITOW*Krxplained, that the accounts from Nov
S,uth Wales had not yet come to band.

Mr. GEORGE ROBINSON said that the delay was
owing to the changes of the Secretaries of the Colonies,
which rendered them quite insufficient to perform their
duties.

Mr. 111ABERLY expressed a hope that the Colonial
Budget would yet be prepared.

WAREURT6N thought that it was the principal
duty of a Secretary of the Colonies to make ut an ac-
count of the expellee and revenue of c.:ch culony, ho that
its value might be known. He complaintd of grants of
land at New South Wales to individuals connected with
the Government.

Lord HO WICK explained, that orders had been sent
cut to appropriate each convict, as he arrived, to some
settler, and levy a tax on them.—The vote was then
agreed to.
Mr RICE text moved that a sum not excaedirg
14,2501. should be granted, in lieu of the fees to ti.e
Clerks of both Houses of Parliament in Bills relating to
Turnpike Rotids.—Agreed to. -
Mr. RICE again moved that a sum not exceeding;
29,9001. should be granted to defray the expences of the
Common Law Commission.

Mr. HUME could not see what good was to be de-
rived from that expensive Commission, from which report
after report had been received, but never acted upon.
Mr. RICE (lid not think that it was a reasonable ground
of ebitction to the Commissioners, to say that their re-
( ommendations had not been attended to.,—(Hear.) It
was to be remembered that the Commission had been
forced upon the preceding Government, and the present
Administration had not been sufficiently long in office to
act upon the recommendation of the Commissioners.—.
(Hear.) The other grants were then agreed to.