The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-20 00:00:00

portions into a corner, and there grapple with the
remedy, as recommended by the Boundary Commis
sinners.—(Hear, hear.) Unless they got at these plague-
spots, he firmly believed they would be only extending,
and daily augmenting, the evil. With respect to the
proposition made by the Right Honourable Member for
Tamwortb, he believed the plan would be attended
with the greatest evils, and more particularly that
portion of it which referred to a large scheme of emi-
gration, which would be opposed by the Catholic
ChM, who were inseparable from their people, and
trowel not permit them to be driven out of the country
in the manner proposed by that plan. With respect to
migration he hoped her Majesty's Government would
le exceedingly cautious in interfering with voluntary
migration, and especially with one of the best feel-
ings which could possibly exist—the anxiety evinced
by the successful emigrants to assist their friends and
relatives to join them in America. He would now allude
to the subject of private charity to Ireland from England,
and he would observe that whatever might have been
said by angry spirits brooding over real or imaginary
wrongs, the heart of Ire and was deeply grateful for the
unparalleled generosity exhibited towards her by the
people of England.—(Hear, bear.)
Colonel RAWDON was averse to the rate in aid, be-
cause he thought it was opposed to the Act of Union,
and to the promise given by Mr. Pitt at the time of the
union, that Ireland should be identified with England.
If the rate in aid wore a general rate in aid, extending
not over only the counties of Ireland but also of Scotland
and England, the people of Ireland would willingly bear
their share of such a tax. He would also protest
against the manner In which the affliction of Providence
had been treated in that House ; and he especially
felt deeply pained at the sentence of death which
bad been pronounced by that House when the Minister
experienced eo much difficulty in obtaining the paltry
grant of 50,000 E for the starving people.--(Hear, hear.)
He laid the blame boldly at the door of the Imperial
House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) He felt that he
should be wrong in throwing the whole of the blame on
the Ministers.—(Hear, hear.) He at the same time en
tirely agreed with what had been said by the Hon. Mem-
ber for Longford, relative to the private charity of Eng-
land—(Hear,.hear)—and which he knew was appreciated
by the people of Ireland, for the feeling of gratitude was
one that beat warmly in the Irish heart. -The Hon.
Member concluded by saying that Irelandivas essentially
an agricultural country, and that her dependence must
be upon agricultural prosperity.
Mr. HORSMAN could not support the amendment,
because the Hon. Member seemed to consider that an
income-tax was to be a substitute for the rate in aid. He
thought the question should, on the contrary, be met by
a direct negative.—(Hear, hear.) What was the fact?
They were asked to advance a certain sum of money on
the security of the rate in aid. Now, what security was
there that the rate would be collected?—(Hear, hear.)
He held the evidence on that point in his hand, on the
evidence of officials employed by the Government itself.
As to the worthlessness of the rate and the utter hope-
lessness that a sixpence of it would ever be paid, the
evidence he had alluded to was clear and conclusive.
The policy which should be pursued was a matter of the
utmost moment in the present circumstances, and on that
point the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam-
worth (Sir R. Peel) had directed public attention to a
course against which they could not shut their eyes.—
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then referred to the
evidence given by Mr. Griffiths before the Irish Poor-
law Committee, also to that of Mr. Gulson, as to the
valuation, the collection of the poor-rate, and its practi-
cability. He also quoted the evidence of Mr. Huband as
to the repayment of the loans—his opinion being that
there would be a decided objection to pay money back
on any account.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Mr.
Senior was the next witness, and he was of opinion with
Mr. Unison that any attempt to levy the rate in aid
would be met by resistance, and that the new
We would endanger the collection of the
old rate. Mr. Senior also thought that the
rate in aid proposed to be levied would be an unfair rate,
and that more than a sixpenny rate would be required
to meet the difficulty. He was next asked as to the con-
duct of the guardians, and he stated that he believed
they would prefer resigning to levying the rate. Captain
Kennedy was also examined on the same subject, and
gave similar opinions. Now, all this proved that the
Government, in bringing in such a measure in the face
of such evidence, must have altogether disregarded the
conclusions at which the witnesses had arrived. They
bed then this prospect before them, that, with Ireland
getting worse, and her misery increasing, the money
which it would be necessary to raise would ultimately
have to be met by the tax-payers of England.—(Hear,
bear.) He therefore looked upon the proposition of a
rate in aid as a mere delusion, as it was a measure which
never could be carried out, and he doubted whether it
was intended to be carried out. The time was come
when they should give up mere matters of expediency.
.--(Hear.) At the eleventh hour the Right Hon. Baro-
net (Sir R. Peel), had come forward and had proposed a
plan to which he felt disposed to give every considera-
tion. As regarded Ireland, the Right Hon. Baronet
had established the magnitude of the calamity—as
regarded England, the vastness of the opportunity • and
as regarded Parliament, the greatness of the difficulty. If
he had done no more than this, he would have done a
great deal—but he had done more. He bad made a
speech which showed his knowledge of the condition of
Ireland. He had proved to them that the time of Par-
liament could no longer be wasted on shifts and expedi-
ents, but that measures of large magnitude must be ap-
plied.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure the Learned
Member for Newcastle that he discussed the question
proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet with reference to
its merits, and not with reference to the individual by
whom it had been brought forward. The principal fea-
ture of that plan was, that it was necessary for the rege-
neration of Ireland that a great change should take place
in its proprietary; and undoubtedly, if they could substi-
tute a solvent and enterprising proprietary instead of an
insolvent body, they would produce an improved state of
society. He understood, however, by that term, a body
of comparatively small proprietors, because he had no
faith in the benefits to be derived from advances to
large proprietors. The Right Hon. Gentleman had re
pestedly glanced at a small proprietary in the exposition
of, his plan. That plan, as far as he understood, ern•
braced three leading features. In the first place there
should be a clear acd simple title against the world. In
the second, limited liability to poor and other rates; ant
in the third place there must be capital.—( Hear, hear.)
Now he believed that whatever the difficulties might be
in the way of bringing this combination of elements
into play, there were none which might not be overcome
if the Right Hos. Baronet was properly and fairly sup-
ported in the attempt to carry out his plan. As regarded
the principle of appointing a commission and superseding
the Court of Chancery, with respect to the grant of
titles, he believed the proposition had secured very gene-
ral assent, and that it could be practically and beneficially
carried,out. As to limited liability, that was incompa-
tible with a rate in aid.—(Hear, hear.) The rate in aid
implied unlimited liability, and it was not under its
operation that the object of securing a new
and enterprising proprietary could be attained.
He believed that the great distress now existing in
Ireland had been brought about by the poor-law which
they had inflicted upon Ireland. Without that law
they would not have had greater distress in Ireland, nor
less generosity in England; but there would have been
this difference, that the farmers of Ireland would not
have been ruined and driven out of' the country, leaving
'whole tracts of land desolate. With respect to the pros.
pacts of the introduction of capital into Ireland, he be-
lieved that there was every natural inducement for it if
the artificial obstacles were removed. There was a fer-
tile and virgin soil in close proximity to the rich market
of England. All that was required was to encourage
the creation of a race of small proprietors. Whenever
such a body was found in Europe, all experience testi-
fied to their value. Mill, Aiken, Young, and others,
showed that their interest in the land was immediate
and direct, and their industrious habits of the most valu •
able description. " Give them a desert, and they will
turn it into a garden," said Arthur Young. In Switzer-
land, Norway, Belgium, and other parts of Europe, they
were highly esteemed, as the very strength and sinews
of the State. Well, now, were they to produce such a
body of industrious small' proprietors by giving them
Government assistance? They had advanced money to
large proprietors, which he considered a vicious system,
for anything that enabled them to struggle with their
embarrassments, and kept the land out of cultivation,
was vicious in its effects. Let them, therefore, atop the
advances to large proprietors, and grant them to small
ones. Such loans to be made on the security of the
land to be cultivated by them, with a proper guarantee
against sub-letting. They had experience of the effect
of advances to this most industrious and useful class.
There had been lent to them, upon personal security
in Ireland, by loan-fund societies, no less a sum than
1,870,000/, and the profits bad been as high as
100,0001. in one year. This proved that such a mode
of :procedure would be equally safe and satisfactory,
and in conjunction, with measures for the encourage-
ment of a judicious system of, emigration, would be
found an ample remedy for the wants of Ireland. The
question before the House was, whether they should
establish a permanent policy in that country—whether
they would treat it as an Irish or au Imperial
question. The Noble Lord looked forward with
hope to the restoration of the potato and the
former condition of things, while the Hon. Baronet pro-
osed a thorough regeneration of the country. He be-
ieved that legislation was the cause of all the evils in
Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) It was that which on the most
fertile of soils made a large proportion of the people
paupers, which, in a most healthy country, reduced the
average duration of life to 26 years. The question was
now in such a position that the House could not dare to
let it rest where it was. They must work out a perma-
neat policy by which Ireland might be relieved from the
burden of
Tchey pauperism, and its resources brought into play.
must come to the consideration of this question in
dott_ore
_high and generous spirit than they had hitherto
nu- The Right Hon. Baronet had placed it in such a
position before the country that they could not avoid
fairly dealing
he trusted with this great and important matter, and
tinningotitasy.
s.) ode
would adopt his policy instead of con-
shifts._(cheers.) ode up of mean and mischievous make-
Major BLS
in said, from the moment the rate
in aid had been proposed "
an Irishman he was read' 110
had at once stated that as
to relieve Irish distress Yr
to submit to taxation in order
did think it was most unjursotin Irish resources. But he
purpose should bo borneby
!that the taxation for that
During the last year landed anded
property exclusively.
upon
to contribute no less thPrnPertY had been called
than 1,700,000/. for the re-
pef of distress, and for local prposes and repayment of
loans expended on public work 1,300,0001. more, making
a total of 3,000,000/. from a rental of 13,000,0004, g
trarl.tihnouth,ehtpotuhnd of
_ the whole rental of the
yßsea
or
, therefore, that it was but fair thatee
the
zebwinktazhashou.l.Ci_ fall upon those descriptions of
every consideration of
escaped; and believed thProperty
siaeration of policy and justice, the maoliounpo onf
t...na.,Lion. Friend the Member for Kerry Was
preferable
/49 Nail of the viYttrnaTent,