The Sun.
London, England, 1836-08-10 00:00:00

CANADA.

Mr. HUME gave notice that he should, on Thursday
next, present a petition from the Assembly of Upper
Canada, when he should move for the production of certain
papers connected with Canada to be laid before the House.
MILLION LOAN.--IRISH CLERGY.

On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, that the
Order of the Day be read for the consideration of the
Lords' amendments to the Municipal Corporation Act
Amendment Bill,

Mr. D. W. HARVEY wished to ask whether any steps
had been taken, or were in contemplation, to enforce the
arrears now due to those who were to receive money under
the Act passed in 1833 in aid of the Irish clergy ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that his Right Hon. Friend
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given notice of a
Bill to suspend the re-payment of instalments to owners
of tithes, and therefore, when he moved that the Bill should
be brought in, it would be the proper time for the Hon.
Member for Southwark to bring forward the subject.
Mr. HARVEY said he should adopt the Noble Lord's
suggestion.

CAPTAIN BOLDER() would beg to ask whether
the Government considered that any stain was affixed to the
character of Lieutenant Hill. If he was satisfied on that
point, he would at once withdraw his motion. His only
offence had been refusing to obey illegal authority.
Mr. C. WOOD could only say that the conduct of the
Admiral had been approved of, and that of Captain Hill
disapproved of.

SWITZERLAND.
Dr. BOWRING begged to ask the Noble Lord below
him (Palmerston), whether any interference had taken place
on the part of England to induce the Swiss Government to
violate the laws of hospitality by giving up the refugees who had
taken shelter in that country. He understood that a note
had been addressed by Count Montebello to the Swiss Mi-
nister on the subject, and although there might be
a case made out against some of the German re-
fugees, he had heard with much surprise that the
French and Polish refugees were also included in the
order. Although the name of England had been intro-
duced, he was satisfied that she had taken no part in this
infringement upon the liberties of Switzerland, and he
now hoped the Noble Lord, the policy of whose Govern-
ment appeared to be to promote the liberties rather than
the despotism of Europe, would give him an assurance that
the name of England had been unwarrantably introduced
on the occasion.

Lord PALMERSTON said that the English Govern-
ment had been no parties to the matter. At the same time
he should not be performing his duty if he gave that strict
and naked answer, because inferences might be drawn
which ought not : every independent nation had a right un-
doubtedly to afford protection to foreigners, but it was the duty
of every Government to take care that in doing so they did
not disturb neighbouring States. He believed that the
French Government were convinced that there was in
Switzerland a number persons who had linked them-
selves together, for the purpose, if possible, of sub-
verting the Government of France, and therefore it was that
application had been made to the Swiss Government. If
he might be allowed to advise the Swiss Government, he
should say, certainly that such persons ought to be required
to leave the territory.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentle-
man had thought the French Government had acted
lightly ; but when the whole of the circumstances were
looked to, be thought it would be found that they bad
had good ground for what they had done. As far as
the English Government were concerned, they felt
the full importance of maintaining the independence of
Switzerland, and it was part of the policy of the States of
Europe that its independence should be recognized.

Mr. HUME wished to know from the Noble Lord whe-
ther the Government of this country had concurred in the
request ; he objected to the Government of this country be-
ing regulated by the French.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the English Govern-
ment had taken no efficacious steps upon the subject.
Dr. BO WRING felt obliged to the Noble Lord for the
statements he had made ; but he must be allowed to say,
there were a great number of Italian refugees there who
had been told they must go to America.
CASE OF LIEUTENANT HILL.

Captain BOLDERO then rose to move, pursuant to
the notice he had given, for a copy of the charge
and minutes of evidence of a Court of Inquiry
held at Sheerness in February last, touching the con-
duct of Lieut. Hill, lately in the command of his Majesty's
ship Alban, who had been superseded without inquiry.
The Gallant Member then stated the circumstances of Mr.
Hill's case at Malta, from which it appeared that after
having got his written orders to proceed to England,
he was desired by the Admiral's Secretary to stop
and take home a passenger. He refused, but made a
signal to see whether he was to go on to England or not—
the signal was answered in the affirmative, and he went on.
He, however, was recalled by another signal, and superseded.
The admiral, however, found he was moving, and appointed
him afterwards to his own ship. On coming to England
he applied for his old appointment, but was told he ought
to go out to Malta and stand his trial. He was refused
any charge, and all his witnesses were in England. Mr.
Hill had not been guilty of any disgraceful conduct, and
ought to have a fair trial. He had been 26 years in the
service. He had served under six Admirals and twenty
Post Captains, all of whom had given him certificates of
good character ; yet he was now turned ofd" with disgrace.
He was afraid he had stated the case but feebly, not being
a sailor ; but he hoped he had stated it sufficiently to show
that the greatest injustice had been done. The Hon. and
Gallant Officer concluded by moving for a copy of the
charge, if any, and accounts of evidence of a Court of In-
quiry held at Sheerness, in February last, touching the
conduct of Lieutenant Hill, R.N., late in the command of
His Majesty's steam-vessel Alban, in the Mediterranean,
superseded without enquiry.
Mr. HUTT seconded the motion, and bore testimony to
the petitioner being an intelligent and honourable man.
Mr. C. WOOD did not think the House of Commons
was the proper tribunal for discussing questions of mere
military or naval discipline ; and he would ask any Member
of the House, especially an officer holding his Majesty's
Commission, whether a Commander-in-chief under any cir-
cumstances might not remove an officer from the command
of a vessel ?
Captain GORDON thought if the statements which
had been made were borne out, this officer had been hardly
treated. He thought the Admiralty ought to make some
inquiry on the subject.
Mr. HUME defended the conduct of the petitioner. It had
been said that there were most extraordinary circumstances
connected with the case, but none of these extraordinary
circumstances had been brought forward.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought the Hon. Member was
most irregular in bringing forward the motion on the
moving of an Order of the Day. It was impossible for the
House of Commons to enter into the merits of the case
without a very strong case was made out upon the subject.
Admiral ADAMS defended the conduct of the peti-
tioner.

Sir ROBERT INGLIS considered the conduct exer-
cised towards the petitioner most justifiable.
Captain BOLDERO should not divide the House upon
it. He considered he had done his duty in bringing the
case of Mr. Hill before the House, and he trusted the
Government would reconsider the matter.—(Hear.)
MUNICIPAL ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition against the
Lords Amendments to the Municipal Corporations Act
Amendment Bill.
The Order of the Day having been read for the con-
sideration of the Lords Amendments to the Municipal Act
(Amendment) Bill,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the time had arrived
when it became his duty to state to the House the course
which it was his intention to recommend with reference to
the amendments under consideration. The Bill for amend-
ing the Municipal Corporations Act had been brought in
by his Hon. and Learned Friend the Attorney-General.
It was a measure of very great importance. After having
undergone much discussion in that House, it was sent to
the House of Lords, where it received several amendments,
to the nature of which he was about to call the attention
of the House. There were two or three of those amend-
ments—two especially—the principle of which he could
by no mans agree to. One was with reference to the
manner in which the chairman was to be chosen to pre.
side at the election of the mayor and council of a Corpora-
tion when there was an equality of votes ; the other was
with reference to the administration of charitable trusts.
It was with respect to those two amendments particularly
that he was desirous to call the attention of the House, to
the situation in which the House of Lords had placed them
by the course which that House had thought proper to
adopt. With regard to the first of those amendments, al-
though he certainly considered the mode of choosing a
chairman to preside at the election of a mayor and alder-
man, when there was an equality of votes, very unadvisa-
ble, being such a one as might lead to a representation of
the borough for a time which would by no means be a fair
representation of it ; yet, if that had been all the diffe-
rence which existed between the two Houses with re-
ference to the measure under consideration, he might not
have thought it necessary to press his view of the subject.
At the same time he must say, that the provision introduced
into the Bill by the House of Lords, that, in the event of
such an equality as that to which he had alluded, recourse
was to be had, not to the opinion of the burgesses at large,
or any popular body, but to that of an individual to be
selected by lot, was a violation of respect to the principle
of popular election on which the Municipal Act itself was
founded. Still, he repeated, that if that amendment stood
alone, he might perhaps have consented to concede it. But
with regard to the second amendment to which he had ad-
verted, the amendment in the manner of appointing chari-
table trustees, he hoped that he should have the general
concurrence of the House in his motion for rejecting it.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) He entertained this expectation the
more confidently, because, although when the Bill was ori-
ginally introduced into that House, many of its provisions
were severely criticised by Hon. Members on the other
side, and great fault was found with some of them ; it was
generally allowed on all sides that nothing could be more
desirable than to put an end to the abuses which resulted
from the manner in which the old trustees discharged their
functions.—(Hear, hear, hear.) When he (Lord John
Russell) stated in the course of those debates that an
amendment proposed by the Right Honourable Ba-
ronet, the Member for Tamworth, would have the effect
of replacing those trustees in their offices, the answer
by the other side of the House was—" It is not intended
to have any such effect ; for we are as anxious as you can
be to put an end to the existence of a power which has
been so much abused in its exercise."—(Hear, hear, hear.)
He trusted, therefore, that there would be in that House
a general concurrence in the opinion, that it was inex-
pedient that the power so vested, and which had been so
abused, should be continued for another year.....(Hear.)
Was it possible to doubt the expediency of at once termi-
nating such a power ? Besides the general knowledge
which every man must possess on the subject, were there
not various Reports on the table of the House, in which
it was distinctly stated that in many places it had been
the custom of trustees of charitable funds to pay away
those funds to individuals of one political party, to the
exclusion of all others?—(Hear, hear.) He was sorry to
be compelled to adopt the course which he was taking ;
but he felt that the House would be countenancing the
abuses in question, if they agreed to an amendment
which continued them for another year.—(Hear, hear.)
The evil had been so universally admitted, even by those
who entirely differed from his Majesty's present Govern-
ment on general politics, that he was at a loss to con-
ceive by what argument the expediency of its continuance
could be supported. The only cause which he had heard
assigned for that continuance was, the expectation that
a Noble and Learned Lord, who had been prevented
by indisposition from attending in his place in Parlia-
ment during the present Session, might probably in
another year be prepared with the general measure
on the subject which he had last year given notice it
was his intention to produce. No man could regret
more than he (Lord John Russell) did the circumstances
which had during the present Session deprived the country
of the exercise of the Noble and Learned Lord's talents in
the other House of Parliament ; but really it appeared to
him that that absence was by no means a sufficient reason
to warrant the continuance for another year of the abuses
in question. It certainly was not a ground on which Par;
hament ought to legislate, that they should wait a year
before they corrected certain existing and generally acknow-
ledged abuses, in the hope that in the next session a Noble
and Learned Lord might bring forward a measure in which
the correction of those abuses would be comprehended.
Had the amendment of the Lords tended to make the
funds in question more applicable to the purposes for which
they were intended, and to prevent their application to any
other purpose, he should not have objected to it ; but, so
far from that, it went to alter the whole scope arid cha-
racter of the Bill.—(Hear, hear, hear.) There might cer-
tainly be some temporary inconvenience sustained by the
loss of the Bill. But he would much rather incur that in-
convenience ; he would much rather that the power now
enjoyed by the Trustees should remain for a time in abey-
ance ; he would much rather that the Lord Chancellor
should be called upon to make such orders as the peculiar
circumstances of the case might require, than adopt such
an amendment as the House of Lords had introduced into
the Bill.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He would not consent to

continue to any set of men the power of distributing large
sums of money under pretence of applying them to cha-
ritable purposes, while, in fact, they were bestowing them
upon persons belonging to their own party.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) For these reasons he would now move, that that
House disagree with the amendments in the Municipal
Act Amendment Bill to which he had adverted.--(Loud
cheers.)
Lord STORMONT denied that the House of Lords
had thrown out the clause in the Bill to which the Noble
Lord had been principally referring on the ground of the
illness of a Noble and Learned Lord, and the expectation
that that Noble and Learned Lord might in another year
be prepared with a general measure on the subject. They
threw it out because they thought that under its operation
the administration of charitable trusts in a borough would
be influenced by party considerations.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL believed that the
amendment made in the House of Lords had been so made,
not because that House approved of the measure, but be-
cause their Lordships had been influenced by the opinions
of members of the old corrupt Corporations.—(Hear, hear.)
The clause introduced by the House of Lords was, as his
Noble Friend had observed, not within the scope and cha-
racter of the Bill. He acknowledged that the sacrifice
recommended by his Noble Friend was great ; but he
thought it much better to make that sacrifice than to
concur in the Lords' amendments.—(Hear, hear.) The
old trustees had abused their trust, and there could
be no hope of their reformation. If the first amend-
ment adverted to by his Noble Friend were adopted in two
boroughs it would be constantly determined by a cast of
the dice whether the representatives of those boroughs
should be Whig or Tory. Surely it was much better to
refer that question to the constituent body—to the electors
—to ascertain their opinions on the subject.—(Hear, hear.)
That point, however, his Noble Friend had said, if it were
alone, he might give up ; but the other amendment, by
which the present trustees of charitable trusts were to be
continued in power for another year, his Noble Friend had
very properly declared his determination not to give up.
Mr. BARCLAY, although he lamented the course
which the House of Lords had taken, was not prepared
to agree to the motion of the Noble Secretary of State.
Mr. HUME expressed his surprise that the Hon. Gen-
tleman, who admitted the existence of the abuses in ques-
tion, nevertheless thought there would be no harm in con-
tinuing those abuses for another year. He (Mr. Hume)
had been informed only yesterday that at Coventry the
trustees of the charitable funds had given 4/. a head to
voters of certain political opinions, and that up to the last
hour the charitable funds had so been mal-administered.
The course taken by the Noble Lord appeared to him a
very proper course. The Noble Lord had stated, and he
(Mr. Hume) was very sorry to hear that statement,
that he should have been prepared to make a great con-
cession to the House of Lords.—(Cries of Hear.) Surely
the time had come when the Noble Lord must have learnt
from experience that no concession to the House of Lords
could be beneficial, and that the more he conceded the
more that the House (the House of Commons) would be
trampled upon.—( Hear, hear.) The Bill under conside-
ration could only be lost. Let it be so. Let it go forth
to the public that it had been thrown out to please a poli-
tical party. The question between the parties must be
settled not within, but outside those walls. The people of
England were the party interested. Let them confess their
opinion at elections. Let them not foolishly elect so large
a body of the Members of that House who were opposed
to all amelioration and improvement. If the people were
so negligent or so ignorant of their duties as to send so
many Anti-Reformers into that House, they must expect
the natural consequences. If at the next election the elec-
tors did their duty—if they did not, as they had foolishly
done at the last election, return so many Members opposed
to the cause of the people—if they were not so shortsighted
as, under any pretext, to send men to the House of Com-
mons as their representatives who were opposed to every
amendment in the law or in any other of our institutions,
a different scene would present itself. Was it to be won-
dered at that the House of Lords, seeing so large a body
of Anti-Reformers in the House of Commons—seeing that
there were no fewer than 300 Members of that character,
should be encouraged to treat the people with contempt ?
for it was to treat the people with contempt to reject every
measure of reform proposed to them. He hoped the
Noble Lord would soon see the inexpediency of making
any concessions to the other House. Let them be left to
themselves, and they would become martyrs of their own
conduct. They had now arrived nearly at the close of the
session ; and the people of England would naturally ask
every Hon. Member on his return to his constituency what
had been done in the course of it. What was the answer
that must be given ? " Not a single measure of importance
has been carried." If the cause were asked, the reply
must be, " The Tories would not let us ; we earried se-
veral valuable measures in the House of Commons, but
they were defeated in the House of Lords." The honest
Members of that House would stand acquitted by the
country. They would plainly say to them, "We have
done our best, but we have been beaten by the other
House. If you want Reform, elect Representatives who
are favourable to Reform. We shall not then struggle day
after day, and night after night, and yet at the close of the
session find that we have accomplished nothing." If the
people would not attend to this—if they wanted to see a
majority of Anti-Reformers, in God's name let them have
it, and let the Anti-Reformers take the reins of Govern-
ment.—(Hear.)
M. CHARLTON said that the whole burden of the
Hon. Member's song was the word " Anti-Reformer." The
Hon. Gentleman charged his (Mr. Charlton's) side of the
House with being Anti-Reformers. That he denied, al-
though they were certainly opposed to the doctrines main-
tained by the Hon. Gentleman, which, under the pretence
of reforming the House of Lords, would destroy the Con-
stitution. The Hon. Member had referred to a supposed
transaction at Coventry, and had stated that 41. a-head had
been distributed by the trustees of charitable trusts in that
city to persons of peculiar political opinions. The Hon.
Member ought not to make such a grave charge without
having good and substantial grounds for making it.
Mr. VILLIERS congratulated the Noble Lord (Lord
J. Russell) on the course he had determined to adopt
with respect to the amendments introduced by the Lords
into this Bill.
Mr. MORRISON also supported the proposition of
the Noble Lord.
Colonel SIBTHORP defended the conduct of the
House of Lords.
The question was then put and the motion agreed to.
In reply to a question from Mr. GOUL BURN,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL stated that as the amend-
ments which had just been disagreed from involved the
only material points of difference between the two Houses,
as far as the present Bill was concerned, he should think it
his duty, after the decision now come to by the House of
Commons, to ask a Conference with the House of Lords for
the purpose of stating to them the reasons which had in-
duced the Commons to disagree from the amendments, and
which would lead them to prefer the loss of the Bill alto-
gether rather than assent to it with such provisions as had been
inserted into it since it originally left their hands. Their
Lordships would then have the opportunity of declarinc,
whether they were determined to adhere to their amend
meets or not.

The motion for a Conference was agreed to for Thurs-
day next.

Lord PALMERSTON brought up some papers re-
lating to the third instalment of the Greek Loan.
BENEFICES PLURALITY BILL.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved that the Order of the
Day be read for going into Committee on this Bill.
Mr. HUME wished, before this motion was carried, to
submit to the Noble Lord whether, at the close of the ses-
sion, it was expedient to proceed with this Bill, and whe-
ther it was possible that due consideration could be given
to it ? He submitted to the Noble Lord, that as he bad
agreed to put off other Bills relating to the Church, it
would be well if he would not now proceed with the
present measure, but allow it to go over till the next
session, along with the Dean and Chapter Bill. In the
meantime, as the Commissioners had taken upon them-
selves to new-model the dioceses of the bishops, they
could also take upon themselves to new-model the
various livings in the country, and take into their conside-
ration whether there were not more livings than ought to
exist, whether some livings were not larger than they ougbt
to be, whether others might not be extended, and whether
different duties and incomes might not be affixed to them.
By that means the Noble Lord would be able to fulfil the
wishes of the best friends of the Church, and an end would
be put to the eternal trouble which the Church now gave
to the Legislature of the country ; for what with the
Church in Ireland and the Church in England the business
of the nation was absolutely stopped, and it almost required
a Parliament of itself to deal with those two subjects. He
could not allow this Bill to go on, which would give a sanc-
tion to pluralities which were now illegal, and which was a
partial and garbled measure as regarded reform, without
entering his protest against it. There were seven or eight
Bills on the table, all of which were of much more import-
, ance than this in its present imperfect state. Why should
they be postponed? What had become of the Marriage
Bill, the Registration 9 Bill, the Newspaper Bill? He had
received a communication from the Hon. Member for
Greenock, stating that he had left London under the im-
pression that this Bill would not be proceeded with this
session. Mr. O'Connell, and Mr. Rippon the Member for
Gateshead, had also expressed their opinion that this Bill
would not be again brought on. He therefore hoped the
Noble Lord would not persevere with the measure.
Mr. WILKS should join with his Hon. Friend in en-
treating the Noble Lord not to press forward this measure
during the present session.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had hardly expected to have
such a request made to him as had been made by the Hon.

Gentlemen who had just spoken. At the time the Bill
came down from the House of Lords, he over and over
again declared that it was his wish to press this measure
forward. But it was urged upon him more than once that
there were other Bills of great importance waiting to be
sent up to the House of Lords ; he had, therefore, re-
peatedly deferred this Bill, not because he was not willing
to bring it forward, but because other Bills required to be
advanced in their several stages. Having so deferred it,
however, that was now made an argument against his pro-
ceeding any further with it this session. It had been said
that this measure ought to have been as great in its leading
enactments as the Reform Bill or the Municipal Corpora-
tions Bill. Now, he never expected to bring forward any
measure of that kind respecting the Church. There
was a vast distinction between the two former cases
and the present. With regard to the Reform Bill they
could at once exclude a great number of boroughs and
erect a new plan of Parliamentary representation. So
with respect to the Municipal Corporation Bill, they
could enact that all old Corporations should at once
cease, and that no new Corporations should be
erected. But in this case, where the interests and
incomes of individuals were concerned, it was quite im-
possible to proceed in such a manner. They could not say
that a man holding two benefices within a certain distance
should immediately forfeit one of them, neither could they
say that a bishop, who was at present living, should be
subjected to a great reduction of the income of his benefice.
It appeared to him that this Bill would do a great deal
to prevent what he considered to be a great abuse, and
for which the law at present afforded no remedy. The ec-
clesiastical canons and ecclesiastical courts would not allow
pluralities beyond the distance of 35 miles, but he did not
believe that the courts of law afforded any remedy against
two livings being held together at the distance of 300 or
400 miles apart. If he were to agree to the postponement
of the Bill, such pluralities as these would continue ; be-
lieving, then, that this Bill would be of very great advan-
tage, and would go a great way in reforming the abuses of
the Church, and considering also that it had come down to
them from the House of Lords, he was disposed to perse-
vere in it. Every body wished to get rid of pluralities. The
Hon. Member had said that the Bills sent up from this
House to the House of Lords were almost uniformly
rejected. But with respect to this Bill they might be quite
sure that no such course would be pursued, as it had been
already assented to by the Lords.
Mr. HUTT did not think that the Noble Lord was
making a discreet use of his unquestionable right of pres-
sing forward this Bill under the circumstances now existing.
It was true the evil of pluralities would in some degree be
remedied, but there was no regulation whatever made with
regard to the incomes of the clergy. It would still be pos-
sible for the golden prebend of Durham, and the rectory of
Stanhope, to be enjoyed by the same person at the same
time ; and he would ask the Noble Lord whether that was
right, or whether it gave him satisfaction ?
Mr. C. PELHAM was of opinion, that if it were not
disrespectful to the House of Lords, it would be in many
respects advantageous if this measure were postponed till
next session.
After a few words from the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, Colonel Sibthorp, Mr. Warburton, Mr. Lennard,
Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Wakley, and some other Honourable
"Members—
The SPEAKER put the question that he do now leave
the Chair.
Mr. HUME was bound to take that opportunity of
stating that as the Noble Lord would not agree to any
reasonable course, be felt bound to express his disapproval
of the course his Majesty's Government had taken. It was
highly objectionable for the House to lend itself to a Bill
like that, which was an abortion of Reform. If the Noble
Lord would alter the second and third clauses, by enacting
that no person should hold more than one dignity or one
benefice ; if he would be revenged on the Lords in this
way, he (Mr. Hume) would go into Committee, and assist
in passing the Bill. Let them resolve that pluralities from
henceforth should be at an end, and they had ample means
for the maintenance of every existing. clergyman. He ob-
jected to proceeding with this Bill, because the Church
Revenue Bill—an excellent one in itself—had been stopped
by some unseen agency. Why did not the Church Disci-
pline Bill go on ? Had any Bishop put a spoke in the
wheel —(Hear, and question.) He concluded with moving
that the Bill be taken into consideration on that day three
months, for the purpose of getting rid of it for the Session.
Mr. LE N NARD supported the amendment.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said his Hon. Friend the
Member for Middlesex complained that they had not pro-
ceeded with the Bill for the augmentation of the value of
small benefices. He (Lord J. Russell) was anxious to
carry that Bill, but had not persisted in moving its progress
in consequence of the opposition he met with in the House.
(Hear, hear)—and in the face of which be could hardly
hope to carry it.—(Hear, hear.) Those whO originated
that opposition now came forward and blamed him for not
persisting in carrying that measure.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
If he had had no other opposition to meet with on that
Bill than that of the deans and chapters, he certainly should
not have postponed the Bill. He thought it quite right to
adopt measures to get rid of pluralities and to enforce resi-
dence, and also that some means should be adopted for the
augmentation of the value of small livings, and had had
hopes that that object would have been effected by the Bill
he had introduced during the present session. If, however,
this measure before the House passed, he trusted that be-
fore next year, by the changes that would be effected, they
would be the better enabled to carry into operation means
for the attainment of the latter object. He, however, begged
to repeat that it was not his fault that the measure alluded
to by his Hon. Friend had not passed into a law, but he had
postponed it in consequence of the opposition made to it in
that House. He hoped and trusted that the measuri that
would be brought forward on the subject next session would
be considered as an excellent Bill.
Mr. AGLIONBY protested against the Bills respec
ting the Church being proceeded with, during the presen
Session.
Mr. C. PELHAM quite concurred in the propriety o
postponing this Bill until the next Session.
The House then divided—.
Far going into Committee.
For postponing the Bill
Majority
The House then went into Committee
Upon clause 2 being proposed,
Mr. HUME moved, as an amendment upon the clause,
the following :—" That from and after the passing of this
Act no spiritual person holding preferment in the Church of
the value of three hundred pounds net shall hold any other
preferment therewith."
Mr. WILKS cordially supported the amendment.
Sir R. INGLIS strongly objected to the amendment.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL could not support the amend.
ment.

66
28
-38

Mr. D. W. HARVEY asked if it were the intention of
Government to give to the country a real, wholesome, in-
telligent system of Church Reform Here they were in
the middle of August, when many were looking forward to
the Ist of September—(A laugh)—with a measure before
them containing provisions for maintaining high livings in
the Church so numberless, that it was impossible for any-
body in the twenty-four hours, who had anything else to do
that was worth doing, to make himself acquainted with the
subject ; and if individuals ventured to oppose the Bill
they heard the vulgar cry raised against the Lords that they
were kicking out measures of Reform. But the Lords
were not opposed to this Bill ; they were perfectly satisfied
with it ; it entirely met their views. This was not only the
Government of the Lords, but it was a lordly Government.
They lose their places ! Not at all ; they were floating
with perfect safety on the tide of episcopal satisfaction. In
no case ought there to be more than one living vested in the
same person. The object of the Bill was not to make the
Church useful, was not to apply the income to practical pur-
poses, but to keep the existing system as tight as possible.
Lord J. RUSSELL said there had been a great variety
of plans proposed to-night, and no two exactly similar. The
Hon. Member for Southwark had his plan ; the Hon.
Member thought that the only plan which could give satis-
faction to this country was one to take away the 3,000,000/.
or whatever the amount might be, and divide it in certain
proportions or in equal proportions among all the ministers.
Thus, if an individual had estimated a living at 6001.
a-year, and bad given a proportional price for it, the
Hon. Member would proceed to take away that living
(3001.) without granting compensation—(" No, no !")
and would transfer this amount to the smaller livings. He
was glad to hear the Hon. Member for Finsbury dissent
from the motion.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE understood that all vested in-
terests were to be held sacred. There was nothing so new
in the proposal. Mr. Pitt's plan was, that the income of
the Church should be paid into the Exchequer, and that
the amounts of the livings should be thence doled out to
the Clergy.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said that the Ministers ought to
abandon the measure for this session.
The amendment was withdrawn.

Mr. HUME then proposed as an amendment, that after
the passing of this Act, no individual holding one or more
benefices should accept a dignity or office in a cathedral ;
and that no person holding one or more dignity should ac-
cept of any other dignity or benefice.
Mr. T. DUNCO MBE had another proposition to
make ; it was that the Chairman report progress. He was
sure the Noble Lord must feel the impossibility of passing
this Bill during the present session. They were now dis-
cussing this measure for four hours, and they had only
passed one clause. If they were to proceed, every other
clause would occupy as much time, and they would be sit-
ting until November. There was the Dissenters' Marriage
Bill. They ought to recollect that they had done nothing
for the Dissenters this session. Now, before they took up
the Dissenters' Bill, they ought to look after their own Bill.

There were the Registration and the Marriages Mills, and
they ought to proceed with them.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not propose to proceed
with the Bills referred to by the Hon. Member for FinshurY
that night. He thought they should be taken up at an
early hour in the evening, and he proposed to go into the
consideration of them on Thursday.
After a brief discussion, Lord JOHN RUSSELL stated
that if the motion for reporting progress were persisted in,
he should not oppose it, as he saw such little hope of their
getting further that night.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the con-
sideration of the Bill was postponed until Thursday.
SLAVE COMPENSATION BILL.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX'
CHEQUER, the House went into Committee on this Bill.
_ _ . .

Mr. HUTT wished to have some explanation as to the
precise object of it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that the measure was intended to provide for the sum
which had remained, without being raised by the former
Bill. He had explained, on a former occasion, the nature
of this measure ; and he would now only observe that it
was not intended to raise any thing more than the twenty
millions which had been voted.

Mr. HUME thought that the exact sum which it WO
proposed to raise by this Bill should be stated.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re-
marked that if the Hon. Member for Middlesex looked into
the Bill he would find that it contained the precise sum
which he supposed was omitted.
The House then resumed, and the report was ordered to
be received to-morrow.

CIVIL OFFICES DECLARATION BILL.
Mr. BAINES, in moving the third reading of this Bill,
observed that the object of it was to exempt Quakers and
Moravians from taking the oath of office under the Muni-
cipal Corporations Act. The reason why he did not in"
elude the Jews in the provisions of this measure was be-
cause the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had already introduced a Bill for the relief of
the Jewish Disabilities.

Mr. GOULBURNconsidered that this measure, unless
it had a general effect with respect to all those entertaining
conscientious scruples to the present form of the oath, had
better be withdrawn.

Mr. AGLIONBY was most unwilling to allow the
exemption of the Jews from taking the oath in question to
depend upon the passing of the measure which was brought
forward for the relief of that large and respectable class o
the community from the general disabilities under which
they laboured.

Colonel SIBTHORP then moved the adjournment. 0f
the debate, and the gallery having been cleared for a &yr
sion, none took place, and the debate was adjourned until
to-morrow.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
The report of the Committee of last night was brought
up, and several items agreed to.
THE MILLION LOAN.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
for leave to bring in a Bill for the further suspension of the
payment of the instalments due on the loan granted for the
relief of the Irish clergy. The object of the Bill was the
same as that which he had brought forward last session'
though it was somewhat differently provided for by the
proposed measure. It was intended that the suspension of
the payments should take place only in certain cases.
Lord MORPETH could state to the House that it wag
the intention of the Noble Duke, whose name had been in'
troduced in the last debate on the subject of Irish Titheg,
to hold himself answerable for his share of the loan, no
matter what measure was passed upon the subject.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, and the other
Orders of the day having been disposed of, the House ad'
ourned at a quarter to two o'clock.

• A thunder-storm, although of short duration, created
great alarm in Manchester last week. It appeared to burst
over the north of the town, and the tremendous claps of thun-
der succeeding the flashes of lightning (which were of deeper
red than usual) at an interval of a very few seconds, indicated
the proximity of the electric fluid. The lightning was ob-
served playing around the tall chimney at the dye-.works of
Messrs. Clemson and Co., Horrocks ; and a man who vial
employed in a chamber abutting on the chimney received a
shock, which for a time hurt his eyes exceedingly, but not se
as permanently to impair his sight. The electric fluid al°
struck a chimney at the back of the Manchester workhouse'
having apparently been attracted from the roof along an iron
tie which is attached to an iron binder round the chimocY'
about nine yards above the roof. Hence it seems to has!
passed off at the top of the chimney, hurling off the slate'
forming the vents, and two large slabs of stone on which they
rested. Many of the smaller rivers were flooded from the
heavy rain.
LORD ERROLL.—The new Lord-Lieutenant of tile
county has, during the few days he has been among us, lual_ee
rapid strides in popularity. On Wednesday, he dined tu
Lieutenancy in the Assembly-rooms; on Friday, he met the
Trades in Trinity Hall ' • and, during the week, be visited se-
veral public works in the city and neighbourhood. On all
occasions he has been received in the most flattering manner-
We are only repeating the sentiments of all who have had the
pleasure of meeting his Lordship, when we state that he is in
a fair way to become one of the most popular Lords-Lieutenant
in Scotland. In fact, our citizens are quite in raptures wite
him. Lady Erroll and Lord Kilmarnock are both equally fa-
vourites with the public._Aberdeen Herald.
On Tuesday evening last, as Mr. Balmer, jun. °;f
Elton, near Stockton, was walking in a plantation near bl
farm, accompanied by a dog, he observed that the anima
had found something extraordinary, and on going up disco-
vered, to his great surprise and horror, that it was the lee'r
human being. On making search in the immediate neigh-
bourhood he found lying in a ditch, the mutilated body of a
female, the head having been torn off. On examining Dr.
dress, it was ascertained to be the remains of a poor Nvotila".
of Stockton, named Jane Lister, who had been
missing stn s
the 13th of May. On the following morning, the bead ^-d1
discovered at some distance from the place where the b°
was laid, and a razor was also found near the spot„—Stoaiv'
Observer.

COURAGE.—The following instance of intrepiditni
was lately evinced by a lad about twelve years of age. AWI
named Benjamin Williams, having recently entered a cottage
at Cuckfield and stolen a watch, was detected iya the act by tilt;
boy in question. The little fellow at once attacked the OW
but was speedily shaken off by him. Nothing daunted, bescu
ever, he sprung on the prisoner's back, declaring that if t
prisoner ran away he should take him with him. He 615
so tight to the prisoner that the latter was unable to get big
of him, and was taken in that situation with the boy on
back.
If we except Milton, no writer during the revolution
of 1649 can approach Sieges, Mirabeau, Benjamin Constlyi
still less Carrell. This last close, firm, able and logs
ce
writer, has in his manner something of the positive eloqueb°l9,
of facts ; his deep and grave style may be compared with
tory recorded by monuments. —Chateau/re/and.
CO
The salmon fishings on the Tay, which hardit we
unsuccessful during the greater part of the season, have beg
to improve considerably; but owing to the frequent f reshes
the river, from the late heavy rains, the take has been ve
partial at the different stations.—Edinburgh Cenral it.
The German Courier says, " The thole ra in, the
Lombardo-Venetian States has produced such a uanie in rt
nit
towns where there are silk manufactories that the greater r he
of the workmen have fled. We learn from Gratz that
Ito,
disease also prevails in Styria, and has even reached Pil Io
and travelled from Cylley to the environs of Marburg.- 01
Upper Styria it has advanced as far as Judenbiarg. It is,- at
increasing in Carinthia, and has broken out w ith virulent ee
Volkermarke. In the Ukrain, it has subsided sensibly 5111,,i
July the sth, but the cases were still sufficiently numerous
fatal to require a further supply of medical melt from Gratz.
iv
MURDERS IN GLASGOW. --With in these fe „at
weeks the authorities have entered upon the iniestigatt°
three cases of murder. The circumstances atte riding two "
c 1 3
these, as far as we have learned, have been alret sdy e°tlda,
the other came into the hands of the Magistratos yeste
shortly after the alleged murder was committe d. The in
cused is a bird-fancier, of the name of Maxwell, residitgefeo
the OldWynd, an Englishman, who, with his wife, has
001.
frequently convicted of various offences, and sent to Bride„eera
From the statement of persons in the neighbourho od, it afro a
that this man had, in the morning, followed hi s -wife !nor
shop to which she went for change of a 11. note,. arid it iseutlf
posed they had quarrelled about the money. Su beetktiose,
cries of " murder" were heard proceeding from tl,ei.,r Poet!
and very soon after it was reported to the police that lull ono
had killed his wife. Captain Miller went to the house't the
found the woman dead; andtha
,on inquiry, he fou.nd One
husband had gone out on pretence of fetching a su rge° thsl
of the police-officers, an active man, who has ch arg "a lei,
district, had heard that Maxwell had been work lag!' by his
in Broad-street, and that some money was due 1,0 uisit°
employer. It struck him that the money would be ryncllin to
in case of the man absconding, and off he went t o the got
intercept Maxwell, if he should call. The officer Roo'
to the proper quarter, for, on approaching the mill, heith
the person he was in conversation with in compattY
other man, and took him prisoner. Maxw.3ll, on t re,
secured, burst into tears. He acknowledged, b °west'
gretted, that he had struck his wife, and be With"
edly said she had been a good woman to him. been
in an hour after the murder was said to have The
committed the man was lodged in the police-office.,, edged
body of his wife was also conveyed thither, and yoreti
in the Old Buildings. The magistrates immediately el 'coat
into the investigation of the case. There are three with ore
a young boy, son of the prisoner, and two women who to
in the house at the time the crime was committed. Th used
women, we learn, state that the prisoner struck tbedetTbif
three or four times over the arm with a thick stick
statement is, to a certain extent, corroborated by the al ir
ante of the arm, which is much discoloured. The wits le
state further that the prisoner kicked the deceased eel
breasts and the abdomen. From all that has ben.ennolebartlei
it appears that the unfortunate woman was in 5.-n jai, !,-,0
previous to this assault, and that the violence thea
was sufficient to cause her death. A medical ex uu"7l
takes place to day, and it is expected that the_.e.....00,7,1cmi er
ready to-night to be sent off to the Crown counsel "/"."7
Chronicle.

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