The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-01 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING. MARCH 1, 1836.

as much interested in the success of Railways as any Hon.
Member in that House; but he considered those now before
the House had too much of a local character, and not
enough of a national one, and he was afraid if the House sanc-
tioned the Bills now before the House, they would find that
public interests would give way to private revenge.—( Hear,
,hear.) He wished to see scme body appointed by the
supreme authority in the State, -so that there might be
some security to the public. During the war this country
possessed great advantages over other countries by being the
great carriers of the world, and being mistress of the seas ;
but now those countries were coming rapidly into competition
with us. Railways, therefore, he thought would do much
good for the country in this way; but he wished to have the
Bills all well considered under the sanction of the Govern-
ment before the House gave their sanction to any of. them.
He hoped the House would address his Majesty for the ap-
pointment of a Commission of military men and enghleers to
decide upon all plans presented to them. He felt it ne-
cessary to persevere in the motion of which he had given
notice. The Hon. Bart. then moved for the appointment of
a Select Committee to consider the different railways for which
application has been made to Parliament, with a power to call
before them engineers and other competent witnesses with re-
ference to the lines which had been selected.
Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY seconded the motion. . •
Colonel SIBTHORP had heard, with some satisfaction,
what had fallen from the 1i0n.,. Baronet opposite, and he con-
sidered he should not hems a public duty, if he Aid nut
support his motion. He admitted, with the lion. Baronet
opposite, that many of these undertakings had emanated from
local interests, without any regard to national ones. He had
no hesitation in saying, that upon grounds of public duty,.
in preference to private interest, he had taken every means of
opposing these undertakings from beginning to end. He
wished to put the public up an their guard with respect to
them, for he was afraid Ministers were not inclined to give
the subject due consideration. He thought time ought to be
given for investigating the subject, for in some points the
resolutions proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
were not sufficiently specific. Every opportunity ought to be
given of entering into the merits or demerits of the subject,
and though he might agree with many of the resolutions pro-
posed by the Right Hon. Gentleman, yet he was so satisfied
of the good effects of further delay, that lie should vote with
the Hon. Baronet opposite for the appointment of a Select
Committee. He had some additional resolutions to propose,
but he would postpone doing so at the suggestion of the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite till the great question was decided.
He was much afraid if these undertakings went on, that many
who had embarked in them would find they had lest their all.
Many persons had realised large fortunes—ten, twenty, and
even eighty thousand pounds by these rail-road speculations.—
(Cries of " Name.") It must be evident to the House that
he could not mention -names—he was only stating this
to show the extent to which these speculations were
carried on.—( Hear.) An Act of Parliament had been
passed some time ago to suppress little goes-4A laugh)—as
dangerous : he' called this a very greet go indeed.—(Great
laughter.) Parties were in many instances acting upon the.
promises of some attorney who wanted to make money, or some
engineer, which was not uncommon. He knew, to his own
cost, how such practices were carried on. He had employed
an engineer, or architect, to build a bridge, who promised to
perform it within a certain time ; but he found it too much his
interest to prolongs:that period, like the hair cutter of
London who, when he was told .to cut a customer's
hair short, replied, " Oh, no,' Sir, I know my business too
well for that."—(A hingh.) He would support the amend-
ment for the appointment of a Select Committee.
Sir G. STRICKLAND felt that this subject was daily
becoming one of national importance. ,When he considered.
that upwards .laf :28,000,00U of money was embarked in it,
when he considered' the great private interests at stake,
and the very great sacrifices that indivduals were
called upon to make, be thought that this subject had become
a matter not of private, but of national and public import-
ance.—( Hear.) He therefore thought that the Government was
right in stepping forwards and interfering with the progress of
these Bills, and if possible to introduce a plan by which rail-
roads should be more attentively considered. Ile had been
placed on that Committee which had been appointed, and he
must say that he entered it with great. expectation of being
able to come to some resolutjon similar to that proposed by his
Noble Friend who had moved this amendment—some
resolution of more importance, and making greater changes
in the proceedings of the House respecting railroads,
than, upon mature deliberation they bad found possibleZElO
thought that 'they might appoint such a Committee as that
proposed, which should ride over all the other ComMittees, and
consult the Governmnt Engineers, as persons well calculated
to consider how far these railroads could be adopted. The
:comnitte,e, had maturely. .considered p:)int,,,itt a_ he inuA
say with great regret that they found that they could not
adopt any such plan.—( Hear, hear, hear.) They had
examined some of the most intelligent of the G3vernment
engineers, and they said that it would be impossible to give
any useful information, unless they hail time and opportunity'
to make inquiry, and their expenses must be some how pro-
videc for them, as they were provided for local inquiries. He,
therefore, was of opinion, that whoa his Hon. Friend ( Sir H.
Verney) more maturely considered his proposal, he would see
the same difficulties in the way of its adoption which the Com-
mittee saw, and would come to the determination that nothiug
could be done, by sending them to a Committee at this period
of the Session.

Lord G. LENNOX would be happy to attend to any sug-
gestion of the Committee, but the parties to the Bill of which
he had the conducting were placed in the situation of being
obliged if they adopted the recommendation to wait for the
Committee on the Bill till the Monday before Easter.
He understood that several of the lines between London and.
Brighton, for which petitions were presented, were not in-
tended to be proceeded with this Session. He regrettedeligible
tbhlaet
the Committee bad not recommended that no Member having
a share, or being a director of the railway, should b
to serve on the Committee of the Bill.
Mrr POTTER thought the Committee omitted one thing,
namely, a jury clause. He hoped this defect would be reme.
died, and that jurie swould be summoned who were compe-
tent to decide upon the value of the property affected by the
Bill.
Mr. HUME believed several of the recommendations of the
Committee would be excellent if there was a proper tribunal
before whom enquiry should be made. There could be no doubt
that the public business in private Committees was not properly
proceeded with, both as regarded the protection of individuals
against rash schemes, and proprietors themselves from embark-
'
bad speculations. He thought the question
siulfoul capitaldbein
viewed so as to render the conveyance for the public
safe and expeditious, and he did suppose the.profits of the pro-
prietors, whether they should be large or small, was not for the
consideration of the Committee. In calling upon the Hoese
toenquire,
easewas generally referred to a tribunal con_
silting than twelve of the Members ; and if to them
ig of notthe less
were added those through whose counties the railways were •
intended to pass in some instances, the Committees would eon.,
silt of 2,3, or 4 Members. These Members, as at present, were
in the habit of coming 4.4(1 ping out, and could not, be
wopjd contend, give a good decision when veiled um to make
up their report, as they bad not heard the nature of the evis
(knee. It was said the House wasblltiviat.yswaesal%lyeedlloknntonwciriectibiact
aosthaerdsioseietY: The mariner of eons
House,Cotilm tt
andte° whoaudy
ptiallon
c
i not
iut:
Enquiredl4l
st w
ir4neytcsoe
takeneof
of
frat
tesr
arno:pfrenatderhtetei
tetaoatsteth.he e
in When they saw the millions
obdfeacttoi
capitalinegr
4businesstai a t g anyo tl
e embarked in those undertakings, when
they /saw the speculations that were daily set on foot, be•
thought it right to ask that a proper tribunal should be
establisispcl to Inquire into all the cireumstances of the ease,
He was told that shay goeld not force the Committee to attend
without a general Act. Now he for pee denied this doetrine,
He reahtteipp.6 that the House had full power to enforce
the attendance qf !lembers. He proposed that a
a Cumpittee of 1t or 29: F e shoilld say 15 should be tips
pointed; st 4 flityer than 12 to he preseet during thp sittings qf
the Committee; end it Opt number did not attend, the Qom.:
mll.tee should suspend its proceedintss, aqd report the names
of the absent Members to the House, who ahquld he called
account 'for: their redie-t of glut ( hear ) Let
to , „ — Hear, : •• •
the CoMmittee be drawn, by belle —pay the first twenty-,
one names, unless there sheidd he any objeptioe to their ails
peipttnent on the grossed pf their being directors or interested
op Railway Companies. He thought this a subject of great
national importattrie, and of public justice.; and he, for one,
would never agree to the reseletiens, sinless Isis pulses:tie:a

. .
was *coded to.
Lord STAI'LEY believed the principle upon whiph the
Housel agreed to the appointment of the Select Committee was,
to use tlia words of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, that they
might tieWp the eluestico day after day in that House, without
arriving at any satisfactory uonelusion, lie therefore ex-
tremely regretted to find that the lion. Member for Middle-
tee only favoured the Committee with his attendance for
about two 144.1 for the first day of their meeting, when
he submitted to them the poeppsitien which he Wiest mach)
to the House. The Ilonourable Gentleman afterwards
1-,yoored them with his presence. In the present in-
stance the Conmittee judged wisely in not adopting any
such a systemaiiiiatrec+nn.eiA.:d lion. Member for
Middlesex din:ing'ile present Session, :is it"would cieFi&y too
Tri7pkt time in the discussion ; bUt order to nrPy intoyeffect
as far as fr tava,s
this principle of the HOn.
Gentle-
man's proposition al". aelreeOlni4Of t4yt FAlRllTtraints
, " , • ' •
na,tries
should be put upoh the Conduct of Comm4tees ; that qie
cif vr," as attended .should be' reported to the House,
and also
itlic name* bi ;.4ose wlio voted on every_ diVision.
The 'flees° Were lo reMember there svpre fiftv,seyeri Railways
before the House. Confl any eine'iiindre Com-
mittee consider and specifically report upon therh' eirOs pro-
'osed by phis Hoh; Friend,. Sir H. 'Veriiey: Thitiroposition
mn 1;
wiii; olnr thhlfacC of it-LI-lenc.) 11:fy 'the course recoin.:
mended ;1g the OeMmitiec t 4.% r
Lennox)would not be .pi.ecTiAed intb' Qt.Gtliiitecc Ohcl exit.;
mining witnesses in Supped of 'tie Hub lie supported-he
llo-
lieved tc:Le7PraTl:s. Ho• niigiit do ib;'arid rrioke their deport
to the klo,use. tb'e reseiigio iv a?, tliatt the
by agreting to it, .bdth'id.Ocirlivel;;Q:i et e6itdilr 'Sue ro-
rrt witn.th?'?4..li44 );.if9torispi, fq.l4'l 16g
' ; •

obvious, taco lines might leave calculaLed upon the same traffic.
Now, there might be enough of traffic to render one railway
profitable, but if the House were to sanction two, then the
result would be the ruin of both, without any benefit to the
public; on those grounds it was rational for the House to say
hat it would not sanction any one plan until all the others
acre before them. He could not think that the plan proposed
bithe Hon. Member for Middlesex was one which was at all
practicable ; there were 57 Railway Bills, and if all of them
were sent to a Committee, .appointed by ballot, the House
would see what a, loss of time .these would be each
would take from an hour or an hour and a half. There was one,
more:consideration—each Committee would consist of 15'; there
Seem 57 railways before the House. According to his arith-
metic that would make 885 Members out of 658. --(Laughter.)
It was admitted that the resolutions would effect a grott im-
provement on the present system, and it would be for the
House to consider whether, when a means of doing substantial
jilitice was proposed, it should not be taken advantage of.
'['he plan proposed was not to he a permanent one, but to
remedy evils very generally complained of and acknowledged.
The door was thus opened, and .t would be the duty of the
House to make such further improvement; hereafter as it
would think fit. He gave his cordial support to the resolution's
,of his Right Hon. Friend, and he trusted his Hon. Friend the •
Member for Buckingham would see the expediency of with-
drawing his amendment.
Mr. HUME explained. It was quite true that he had only
attended the sittings of the Committee one day, but he be-
lieved fin ce or four of its members had agreed with hint in the
prOpriety of the course he had suggested. lie thought the
House would agree with him that-every thing. depended upon
the tribunal; and that was the best means to render it tm-

partial.
G. F. YOUNG thought-the House was deeply indebted
.o the Committee for the suggestions it had made, at the same
time he thought that, even at the expense of a little inconveni-
ence to the parties, it was most important, when not less than
57 Bills were brought before the House, some arrangement
should be made to protect the interests of the public. It
consequently more important that that should be done during-
, the present Session than the next. He contended that the
Publication of the names of the Members would not ensure-.'
their attendance at these Committees, and he therefore thought..
that proposition would fail in its object. He would further;
suggest that the reports of the Committees should be printed.
with the votes of the House in order to ensure their publicity,
and that the time between the several stages of the Bill should
be lengthened.
Mr. D. W. HAIIVF,Y thought that the resolution pro-
posed would advance the object which the House had in view.
He would recommend that the plans, estimates, &c., o s
all railroads should, in the first instance, be submitted
to some office—say, the Home Office—on a given day of the
year, that the promoters of such plans should be called. upon
to deposit a considerable sum of money, say 1,0001.,
wherewith to pity some disinterested party to go over
the line of road, look at the maps anda plans, and make a
report •as to its feasibility.—( Hear, hear.) By these
means Government would be enabled to state to the House

their sentiments upon the proposed plan. He had no doubt
that these sentiments would be productive of very great
advantage. It would lead to this conclusion that no
Bill would receive the sanction of the House this session,
which did not recommend itself so palpably as at once to dis-
miss all their objections.—( Hear, hear.) He complained of
the insinuations thrown out by the Noble Lord (G. Lennox)
tr .otuhitei against those
rnaoitiro preventa
Hmb
him
ee Members ofr
was
smhimselfuiCommitteesngsa
duty who
shareholder,
honestly h
ib
du t sharesabtoh la.eit
board. He could say this, that during all the time that he
had the honour of a seat in that House, he had never given
a vote as a member of a Committee, unless be had attended it
from end to end. With respect to the lass of time, they
ought to come to some resolution not to hear Counsel. The
greater part of the time of Committees was consumed in lis-
tening to the contests of these Learned Gentlemen.
After a few words from Lord G. LENNOX and Mr.
GISBORNE,'
Sir R. PEEL said that the discussion involved matters in
which the public took a very deep interest. Respecting the
propriety of excluding Members who had a direct interest front
serving on Committees prima facie. The reason in favour of
it appeared very strong. But it was clear that the principle
involved in the suggestion ought to be applied more extensively.
The security was a false security, which deceived the public.
The man whose interest was notorious, who had a considerable
stake. at hazard, was, in his opinion, the least liable to
suspicion ; and-if they were to permit the man through
whose hands, the Railway was to run, or who had some
object or interest in opposing the Bill, to set on a Com-
mittee, while they excluded the man who 1. ad interest in
it, they would be acting in opposition to their own principle,
Ile maintained they could not exclude private interests, and it
would be better to leave it to the honour of individual
maintains as to whether they should attend or not. It was
quite clear that the resolution could not be carried into
effect during the present Session. There were other private
Bills, beside Railways. He. believed the number of private
Bills amounted to 250. Committees sitting on those Bills
would 'require a House of 3,000 Members. 'lt would not be
satisfactory to select 15 by ballot, who might be ignorant of lo-
local matters, and it could not be adopted, unless
accompanied by the principle of challenge. The House could
not compel attendance on Committees without some special law.
It would he impossible to unsure a full attendance of 31e1-4.,ier*
flap Oommittec
to
close, 4 1444 he the power qf any three viLe
were Qppowa the tq put the puties to great
ineonveGion"ro,..oso
by protracting their Prqceeding.—(Hear.)
atab stleiretcsee
bCfomthin,reiet.tel‘eraembt if,w accordingg4 ii,xlit)qo
would t)
submittednlunfairnst to
tahned rinoj4u:ot towards
those the system p r -- • -
regulations and for these reasons he
the resolution of the Hon,
tf ,ot donffieltlesilleWitliel4Ghilli4:ll3l4gqdtY to DROP
MenlbOr fur Middlesex,
Lord SANDON suggested the expediency of having the
erwi:wers called before the Committee, and to ascertain from
them the expediency and practicability of the several lines.
fire
e attho
propriety
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER observed
principles upon which these railways were esta-
blishedand he would suggest
of')ne o
aclaufsemboenionpoyglii:troduceci for the purpose of
compelling these companies to carry the Post Office ograntuni-
catioins, either at a fixed moderate charge, or at the rate at
wat present pqrfipcl other modes of convey-
4itieh theye._tie l re
avre,hearo This would be in some measure a
protection of the public interests in that particular
Mr. WARBURTON suggested the ',lest course would be
cult the Chairman should examine every person before the
Committee, as to their Interest or non-interest in the passing
of the Bill.
After a few observations from Lord S. SobIERSET and Gila
H. VanMER,

The SPEAKER proceeded to read the wsoloigns, which
were being discussed when w 100,
, SITTING'

; 114 .4 r.

110 USE OF COMMONS, Fimito.44r 29.
BRIDLINGTON AND SCARBOROUGH HARBOUR

BILL,

The Bridlington And Scurhorough Harbour Bill was road
4 second time.

An HON, MEMBER presented a petition from the merchants
and other inhabitants of Gloucester, in favour of the Glouces-
ter and Birmingham Railway Bill. '• •
THE DUNDEE AND ARBROATH RAILWAY.
This Bill was then road a second time.

Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET put off until to-mor-
row, the presentation of a petition against (as we understood)
the Doncaster Railway.
NORTH MIDLANI=I RAILWAY.
Mr, Imo; ft:g presented a petition in favour of the North
,lidland Railway Bill,
()a the motion of Sir JOHN BECKETT, the Bill was
read a second time,
, R14T014 AND EXETER RAILWAY.
I‘'lrl TOOKE presented petitions from Pendaves, in favour
of the iiris.tol and Exeter Railway Bill.
petltionl wqopregtmted in favour of the Bill from the inha
4ltaats of Bridgwater, Sidmouth, Weston-super-Mare, Bristol.
Bradnineli, Falmouth, Taunton, Exeter, Crediton, Dartmouth.
Cullompton, Penzance, Plymouth, Devortport, and Stonehouse.
_To he on the table, A
PVtiti9ll Ii'VVII) presented against the Bill from Sir S. H.
Nertbcote and J, H, IVlerivale.—To lie on the table.
MIDDLESEX HOSPITAL.
Oa the motiQn of Mr. TOOKE the Middlesex Hospital
incorporation Bill was 'read a second time.
M't W. PEEL presented petitions from Tamworth in
114043vd°111411 ts:Qt;i4slt, bc
favourtifi iArm3li
of
gA thela mp StoneaGilLd GLOUCESTER
tireirdcb2yEe JunctionsjuTnEc Junction
oaRRBAai
llilliirlaly,
ABilll ;
Sir EA RI) LE Y WILMOT presented petitions in favour of
the Birmingham and Gloucester Railway Bill.
Mr. STUART (as we understood) presented petitious to
the same effeet.
Ijord nr; A M
Inoved the second
readitig
• [;cottons in favour of the Bill were presented by Lord G.
.finKfa.i, Mr. "HOPE, and another Member, who twarAkn,AwU
(-1('-'r011iVrtnii-iiill'ibEaC/ndARLtrCsrie. r Railway Bill.
In the Gallery ••'
ior4t.:,:: ItE'lz 15', EL i('; p7,sente4 a petition praying that car-
rj!qes r.figiii 1)6 allowed to run upon the railway. The peti-
tion bad /its warmest iupport.—(Canghter.),
Tifq Ain '%),4 iltell read at second tii;•te, 4nd tyAerjed to, hp
Firnitte ~ • .., •,, ~ ,
1 ELTNHANI AND GREAT WESTERN RAII-4-
w:Ay.
ri - dirn• of
oi.!1 11. E. SqNlEßSWr'diove4 015 4439%-, I,C•a' '7 •
Ihi
int ,),i;
'-,4r.• - M. ST WART kajd kg 40. Co cgicr 4°4'l, 7; p?siqgn. to this '[till on Ate part ol- tire.
''."l4l!Trki:tanee
I ha:Tiles awl 4e;e:.11. Giuia; gorkApattly; tc i d ,
ct: 6i •h:t milet •-6. i ti•-•.:., -.4„c,d ti:o eonal n
~",),-.11 ,1 'it'ly 1.• k,
VI.: ii 1 i7''' i c§4 V 5 %tit* woo a e"—
.
VA
tt/ @9i, pith pr...,
1 -

.ass than

at which the House
suspicion, for the line selected was

PRICE 7D.

not be kept up. He had seen 150 ships laying at Flamborough
head in distress, many of which had afterwards put intoßurling
ton. ' Had thay not had that harbour, they must have been
stranded. It bad been said that the tolls in many instances had
been spent in making splendid promenades at fashionable water-
ing places--
Mr. YOUNG did not *elle that observation wilt refere... Q
to the present Bill,
Sir G. STRICKL AND continued—The tolls. upon this
harbour were very small, and if taken away altogether it would
be impossible •to keep up the harbour at all. Several storms
had taken place which bad nearly swept away the old pier.
Mr. HUME trusted if the harbour required more Ttioney to
keep it itt repair than its tolls proaPPO, N§ Majesty's Mi-
nisters WOUld instltnie some Special inquiry on the sullject,
He would join the fun. Member. in instituting 4 inquiry, in
order that the mnIW thigh t be prAppily §141.•
Sir Itt , W. RIDLE Y said that the object of the Bill would be
desirable, but as no doubt there %Va t— be opposition to it, he
.svottld.surest to the Hon. Member who had charge of the Bill
that. it wwild he better to
,postpone the further consideration of
it, until some further inquiry was il--,iriluted,
• Mr. BETHEL!. bad no et:;7eti.ei whatever to the pro-
posal of the Hon. Baronet, and would, postpone the second
reading of the Bill till this' day - fortnight.—( Hear, hear,)
BRIDGE OVER THE THAMES,
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON presented it,• petition from
certain waternien of London, praying the House not to enter,
tain any Bill for building a new Suspension Bridge over the
Thames between Waterloo and Westminster bridge:„
BISHOPRICK, OF DURIIA.,::'
Mr. HUME wished to ask; before..',;l6 . orders of the day
were proceeded with, whether it' was the intention of . his
Majesty's Government it i(ny arrangement made for filling the
v•Lnincy of the -..,:c., of Durham, that it should be subject
to the same alterations, reductions, &c., as were made
.in the See of Derry some time ago, in the course of the re-
forms which were now in progress' ; and also whether there
was to be any reduction in the amount of the salary attached to
the See?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in the
absence of his Noble Friend, could state that it was the inten-
tion of Government to introduce a Bill on the subject of the
See of Durham, which would comprehend not alone the
..qtiestion of future emoluments, but also the immediate separa-
tion of the civil functions from the episcopal office, according
~ to the recommendation of the Commissioners appointed to in-
.quire into the affairs of the Church.
it)
ICE BOUND WHALERS.
~...,
a*r. HUTT begged to know whether it was the intention of
e Admiralty to send any other vessels to the assistance of the
4.-bound whalers?
' Mr.' C. WARD said that Captain James Ross had been
despatched to their assistance, and tlic Admiralty did not
think it necessary, at prcsentito seridany further assistance.

MUNICIPAL 'REFORM (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. Stn....cant JA CE SON presented a petition (we believe)
from the Corporation of Dublin against this Bill.
Mr. E. TENNENT presented ft petition from BeFast
against the Municipal Corporations (Ireland)-Billz
Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition signed by 30,000
inhabitants of Dublin, praying for an equal participation of
privileges in Corporations with the English people.
Mr. D. CALLAGHAN presented a petition from Cork,
signed by 8,000 persons, in favour of the Irish Municipal Cor-
porations Bill.
Mr. S. -CRAWFORD presented petitions from 'Dundalk
and Bangor -in support of the Bill. The Hon. Member alF;O,
took occasion to observe with respect to the petition reo-paty
presented from Belfast, that it was very far from, rciwenting
the opinions' of the inhabitants at large of that tPa vn ; there was
another petition in 'favour of the Bill crtori Belfast, whiell
would he presented in a few •day 4- the signatures to 'which
would evince what was tho popular feeling on the subject.
Mr. E. TENNENT observed that 8,000 of tin) inhabitants
of Belfast, out of a populatibn of 53,000, had signed the peti-
tion presented by bit-n
Mr. WISE presented -a petition froio Waterford in favour of
the Bill.
Mr. RUTHVEN presented a petition (supposed to be) from
Dublin, in favour of the Bill.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL presented a petition from another
place (name unheard in the gallery) in favour of the Bill.
IRISH LAY ASSOCIATIONS.
- Mr. Sergeant JACE-SON begged of the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin to postpone to a further day, say the 28th
March, his notice on the subject of the Lay Assoeiation of
Ireland, as it would be impossible for him to attend in hisplace
at the time now fixed for the moticm,
Mr. O'CONNELL' 5:3'0 could not refuse to accede .at
once to the regticst-o Hon. and Learned Member, though
he was foIIV aware of the cl.angelous Rro;;T.. ~-,nistlie.QlT4larhave '
to meet on that occasion,
MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
The Order of the Day for the second reading of this Bill
being read,

O'LOGHLEN rose and said, as it had been agreed by
the House that he should, on the second reading o: the Bill
for reforming the Municipal Corporations of Ireland, have an
opportunity of making his statement with respect to the nee
cessity for passing this Bill, as well as to press upon tho House
his reasons for calling on them to pass it, and also to enter into
the general details of tho measure, he should at once pro.
seed to do so. The House was awatse that the Report of the
Commiseieners appointed tst require into 'the state at" the
i"yntcipa.l Cerporetione of Ireland had been lying on their
telale foe some tame. He should Nice that opportunity of
briefly recalling the substance of that, Report to mind by read-
ing such parts of it as were necessary to elucidate his state-
ment, and by reciting. also, the number of' Corporations now in
existence in Ireland, es well as the number of' Corporations in
those boroughs, From the Report it appeared that there were
now 00 Corporations existing in Ireland, or, according to the
description of' the words of the Report, " the following appear
to be now effectively existing to the number of 60, and in full
vigour exercising their functions." It further •stated that 11
had become nearly extinct since the period of the Legislative
Union, and that a considerable number-s-to the number 0., 30
—had become absolutely extinct since thai time, TIM of the
71 Corporations now in fell or partial exereile ef their funs •
tions, the population of the towns which were comprised within
that descroleit amounted in round Numbers to upwards of
1.101),(00 persons, and that of this number not more than 13,000
of them were corporators. If the Flouse looked a little fur•
ther into the details of the Report, they would find that of these
13,000 corporators, 8,000 were distributed over four boroughs,
and the remaining 67 'boroughs had only 5,000 corporators
amongst them, whilst their population exceetl:ed 500,000 per-
sons.—( Hear, hear.) In describing the constitution of these
municipalities, the Report stated t.".,at they
were ruled by go-
verning bodies self-elected, nominees of the patron of the
borough, That 53 of +..laose Corporations divided amongst them
1,`,150 corporesses, and that the remaining nine of the 67 had
only 251, corporators, by whom all their municipal affairs were
;agitated and ordered. The Report, after detailing what he
bad just set forth, stated further that the general result of the
inquiry satisfied the Commissioners of the fact, that the
Municipal Corporations of Ireland were originally intended
end instituted for the benefit of the inhabitants of the re-
spective boroughs at large. The language of the Report,
with respect to . the lapsed general rights, was as follows :
" It has followed, that in man) towns there is no recognised
commonalty ; that in others, where existing in name, it is en-
tirely disproportioned to the inhabitants, and consists of a very
srnall portion, of an exclusive character, not compromising the
mercantile interests, nor representing the wealth, intviiip,-,encrt,
or respectability of the town. The Corporations are, not
without reason, looked on by the great body of the inhabitants
of the corporate districts with suspicion and distre.:, as having
interests distinct from and adverse to those of tlie general coin-
'triunity, whom they thus studiously eielesle from a participa-
tion in the Municipal Government. Tlteir members frequently
consist entirely of the relativet and adherents of particular
individuals or families, and tile principles of their association,
and those which regulate admission or exclusion, have rarely
any corm:Set:ton with the common benefit of the district, or the
withee of its inhabitants. In far the greater number of the
;lose Corporations, the persons composing them are the mere
nominees of the f Patron,' or Proprietor' of the borough ;
while in those apparently more enlarged they are admitted
"and associated in support of some paetleular political interest,
most frequently, at-variance with the majority of the resident in-
habitancy." this Was the character given in the report of the
present Municipal Corporations in Ireland that they afforded
any adequate representation of the intelligence, the wealth,
the respectability, or the opinions of the communities over
Which they respectively ruled, no one who had read the report
would hesitate to deny. That they proceeded upon a system
of rigid exclusion from any participation in the municipal
offices, not merely all those who were Roman Catholics, but
likewise every person who advocated liberal principles, or was
of popular political persuasions, would not, he was convinced;
be denied.—( Hear, hear.) The House could not telt& i,t for
granted that the feelings of the Protestants of Vaand were
represented in any adequate manner bx vli,ttoo Corporators
distributed throughout the kitaxlestt, 'in the year 179 Q nu
Act was passed by tlo Vl:titer-tient of Ireland, acknevektk,os.
the eligibiiV,se. µf Roman Catholics to lay C0rp,0N,i6,%, t°
ut
e;eee tie year 1793, up to the present the Corporation
of Dublin had been so closely siossue4, that not above 200
Roman Catholics had Inse& 4ss'ltnated of that body. He was,
however, bound ;.e, say, that it was a characteristic of the °or-
poratiop 'Dalin to exclude not only Roman Catholics,
but sectarians also of all denominatkenes. aa well as per-
sons differing in politics fro% t iy twain, body e and these
objections, extenclin; 11:4, they, 41. W; a very great
exclOott propor-
tion of tier, itAtsleltsysts t 4 that city, the majority of
ote•wcalltlo; mtc)ligc,n,ce, anadi eespeon.shillty of that important
pace. 4 was not nce.eseary to, look very deeply into the Re-
port tp; Tit
tkst the, mnrsicipel Corporations of Ireland were
not feveuraisle to, the general ppgress oe. jeeproyemoot of tie
t;;at the.y weso nneeme to it, and had unifes
iuristed
k,,,i)°,We;A W. the wry worst
_}rut oses
lump, of their
general Report, the Ce-P- • sit the con-
tereaW IttiS tent's, enserve- - .ernissioners with re-
Marla we have 0-- - in these reports, and the re-
vs:- •
-els made on the matters pointed out by your
--sesty's Commission, we have abstained from any reference to
.the political views with which many of the Municipal Corporaof-lall
tions may have been created, and the constitutionst•
the
modified or controlled by the general enactments 0