The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-13 00:00:00

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SUN OFFICE, Seven o'clock.

CRIMINAL COURT-(THIS DAY.
OLD COUItT.
TRIAL OF MR. DROUET FOR MAN
SLAUGHTER.

(Examination of Joseph Andrews, continued from our
Afternoon Edition.)
Mr. Baron Purr—How many, my little boy, make a
dozen?—Witness—Twelse. He slept a good time in
the bed, mid remembered his brother being taken ill•
The room was in the attic. He was amongst
the little boys, and he and his brother
were treated like all the rest. We did not hive enough
to eat. Sometimes his brother asked him tor a portion
of his allowance, and sometimes he gave it to him and
sometimes he refused. He refused because he had not
enough for himself. The little boys dined in a hall.
They had sometimes rotten potatoes and meat and
sometimes meat and bread. When they had
bread they had no potatoes, and they had
no bread when they had potatoei. What he
meant by rotten potatoes was that they were black and
nasty. They had meat twice a week, and on these oc-
casions they had potatoes. He thought they were al ways
bad and used to throw them under the table. They
seldom had moat enough. For breakfast and supper they
had a piece of bread and some gruel. There was
generally in the room they slept i❑ one tub for use,
which was removed every morning by the big boys.
Sometimes the tub smelt very badly, and in the daytime
it was used to hold the water for washing cut the rooms.
Cross-examined by Sir F. THESIGER—He went to
Drouet's about two months before his brother. Pre-
♦iously he had been in the workhouse a fortnight. His
brother had been in the workhouse before he went to
Drouet's. A man attended the little boys while they
were at meals. He was called " Jonney Cuff." He had
meat three times a week—Tuesday, Thursday, and Fri-
day. On Monday they had soup, on Sunday meat, on
Friday pudding, and on Saturday they had soup. He had
half a slice of bread for breakfast and supper. He did
not know whether his brother had meat and porter
every day, but be had bad eyes, and his ward was there-
fore changed. He bad not bad eyes when he came to
Drouet's. W hen his brother came to London he had
bread and milk. His eyes had got well. No doctor
saw his brother till the morning after they came up
from Tooting. It was very cold the night they came up,
and it snowed.
Re-examined by Mr. CLARKSON—His brother did not
eat his bread and milk, but gave it away. He was too ill
to eat it.
By the COURT—They came up as late as 11 o'clock.
His brother was sleepy, and wanted to go to bed, but his
being sick was the reason he did not eat the bread and
milk.

Thomas Titan examined by Mr. CHAMBERS—Was
sixteen years of age, and had been fifteen months at
Drouet'o. He had to empty the slops and scour the
floors Ho knew the attic to which the little boys slept,
but there was more than one attic in which the little boys
slept. One of them had about twelve beds in it, but ke
did not clean that, though he had seen the state which
it was in. He knew James Andrews, who slept in a room
where there were fifteen or else twenty beds. The beds
were close together, and two or three used to sleep in
these. It was part of his duty to empty the tub used in
that rotm, and he remembered it often smelt very
strong. The room was perhaps as long as the court,
but not half- so wide. They seldom had food
enough, particularly the lift!, boys. The potatoes
were black, bad, and • watery, and the boys generally
threw them way. When there was not potatoes they
had :,react. The clothes James Andrews had were the
same as his own ; they did not li,ep them warm by any
means, but the corduroy clothes they wore on Sundays
were much better and warmer. Out of school hours
the b:;ys were put into a yard, and ho had seen some of
the 'title iys oat us late us SOY, aor eight o'clock. He
had-often step a half- quartern loaf cut up into twenty
pieces.
On, trosi-examination by Sir F. TUESIGER, he said
he was posted in the plutry for a week once, it was then
that be saw the. boat cut up into ttO parts. There were
four attics and ab9ut- fifteen beds in each. He knew Mr.
Winch. He had been qu stoned once or twice by him
about little Andrevvs, and his answers were taken in
wriung.
Samuel Jennings, another boy, said he assisted in
cleaning tl-.e roomi of the biz boys. Was not able to give
any account of the mode in which the little boys were
treated.
By the JUDGE—There were as many as a hundred
little boys, and they were about eight years of age,
quite old enough to state what they had to eat and how
they were treated.
A bov named Selby, aged 15. said he was 15 months
at Mr. Drouet's estabiishment. He had not complained
himself of the w.,y in which he was treated.
Mr. Baron PLArT—I really must complain of the
Mode of proceeding.

Mr. CHAMBERS—My Lord, we go upon our instrue-
• tions, and the general management of the establishment
!weals to me very imp,_,rtant,both with regard to the big
and the lute boys.
Mr. Baton PLATT—AII the witnesses are from 15 to
16; surely a little boy aged eight can tell whether he had
enough, to eat, and how he was treAed. •
Mr. CLArtlisox--The evidence we give was produced
at the coroner's itiquigition.
Mr. Baton PLATT—I have observed that the evidence

oFmany witnesses was received by the coroner's jury,
-who were no: examined upon oath, and I cannot refrain
'from saying that that was a mo=t irregular proceeding.—
(His Lord:hip s,id this with considerable emphasis, and
was cheered by several persons in the court. This ebu-

lition of feeling was speedily checked.)
John Welch was then called—He said he was 14, and
had been at the Tooting establishment fifteen months.
He slept up stairs. The little boys used to sleep three in
a bed. Had seen them at dinner—the potatoes were
sometimes good and sometimes bad; the bad ones were
black inside. it cullecttd some complaints being made
three months prior to November, with respect to the food.
Heard Mr. Drouet say to one of the boys after the
gentlemen came to inquire about their treatment,
" let you know, you young scoundrel, for letting them
know that you had not enough to eat." He (witness)
was whacked by the schoolmaster next day.—(Lsnghter).
Cross-examined—lt was not because he did not say
his lesson that to was whacked. Had enough to eat at
pre.e%t-L-had plenty of meat and plenty of bread, and
could not eat more if he had it given to him. Could not
say that the other boys were so satisfied.
Re•examined—Did not have so much to eat at Mr.
Monet's. Was whacked by the schoolmaster for hold-
ing up his hand when asked if he had enough to eat.
By the COURT—Had no v meat five times a week at
the Holborn lini ,u. Had .a..inetimes bread and a basin
of milk tor brealr-st. Bet Ore going in Tooting he had
meat four times a week. Was quite well when he-went
to Tooting, and also well ,411,.n lie came back.
Llepry Hartshorn, aged fourteen, said he was among
the big boys at Tooting. the deceased Andrews was
among the little boys, and he could not say how he was
treat( d.

A long and somewhat desultory discussion here took
place.
Mr. Baron PLATT observed that every maa brought
to a criminal bar ought to have fair play, and that he
thought it but right and just to him that proper evidence
should be produced.

Mr. CHAMBERS considered that it was legitimate
and essential, under the indictment, to give evidence as
to the genenl management of the children.
Sir F. THESIGER said, although he gave his Learned
Friend cr.dit for the firmness and perseverance with
which he had performed his duty, he could not give
him credit for offering evidence which he must know,
from his experh.nee, was irrelevant.
The boy Patrick Shan was again recalled, and in
reply to his Lordship said he had seen the little boys
and they Lig boys st dinsier together, and that they
had the same food, with the exception of the big boys
baring more bread,
Mr. Baron PLATT - r some further observations on
botii sides, and after looking at his notes, said if jt
could be- prork that Arr. Droucttad notice in May that
the children were improperly treated, and if they could
edrtlnnttP /hilt treatment' with, the treatment 'of Andrews,
then evidence as to the general man Igefhent might be

inWas recalled, and said, he got no additional
f,,d in e.msequence of bolding tip•hishtMd when the gen-
tlemen asked :he boys who had not enough to eat to hold
up" their hlnds. Mr. DrOnet ;aid that it was a fair ques-
tion' t. rut to there. Six boys held up their hands, and
0(1%1 were eight present.
Mr. Winch, rccalkd—Said he recollected Mr. Dionet
snyirg "That's a very unfair and improper question—l
bare a character to lose ; that boy," pointing to one of
them, "is the greatest liar in the school." Went down
to the establishment with the committee on the 30th of
May. ;Told one of the boys to cut up a loaf in the usual
way, and he divided it into sixteen pieces. He and
his brutLer guardians signed a paper approving of the
manner in which it was conducted. Recollected making
a suggestion confining
!!'"
his approval to that day. The
only meal of which the quantity
specified Was break-
lasr.

Cross examined by 'Sir. BALLANTYZ4E—IaM an ivory
dealer at present; and keep shop. As far as ram con-
cerned. I think the evidence L." • of the Children
It iiess Mr. Reding whoasked is not true
the children if they were
satisfied. .
By the COURT—A four pound l
teen pieces. oaf was cut into six-
Mr. Shaw Mays, another guardian, a in bray,
when he visited the es'.;ablishunent, he asked id
s
kea- one
the
boys in the presence of Mr. Drouet, whether heof
had
enough to ear, and he said that he had not enough
bread. He went into the room where they were at dinner
and loc& d at what one of the boys was eating. The
greater portion of it was net meat but gristle. Mr. Drouet
list his truiper, spoke harshly, and stated that they (the
coterwt;ee) were not fit to examine the hop. He made
ah ob,rrratioa as to the ventilation of the building.
he itterepheie of the new bedroom was very hot and
c}oso. led ho suggest, d that some ventilating holes
shou:d in. made, and that an iron grating should lie put
in !iit:wEllt, under the flooring. Mr. Drouet said if he had
to att-nd tee suggesti6n of every. line, he would have
nothing else t.) do. He visited the establishment again
fourteen days afterwards, and found the dietary better,
and that more attention was paid to the children.
Cross-examined by Sir F. THRsIGER-110 cou!d
swear pOsitively that there were no ventilating huh 8.
Mr. K9lly said he had two grand-children in the
Tooting • establishment at the end of last year. One
ta as eight or nine, and the other four. He visited them
the last day but two of ,the year, and he found the eldest
one ill in bed. There were three in a bed.
Mr. Ihron PLATT intimated that this evidence could
not be received, unless it could be shown that the deceased
Andrems was in the same roots with those two children,
Mr. CVAIBERS said that unfortunately kr could 'not

show that. There was another branch of evidence upon
which he had now to enter, and, as it would ocalpy
consi•lerable time, he wished to know whether his Lord
ship µ ould pri,ceed with it at once, or take that: (ppor-
tunity of adj• nrnit.g the trial until to m.rrow.
111, LORDSHIP said, as they had alr• ady sat eight
hours, it would be better not to proceed further until to-
morrow morning.
The Court then rose, and the trial will be proceeded
with to-morrow at ten.
Mr. Drouet having entered into the necessary bail for
his re-appearance, was liberated from custody.