The Sun.
London, England, 1831-12-07 00:00:00

thing new in that information. But it now appeared
that Don Pedro was posssessed of means which he did not
before possess, and that in his present situation he might
he induced to undertake an enterprise, the success of

which every one would have formerly pronounced impos-
sible. For himself he (Lord Aberdeen) was perfectly ready to
repeat what he bad already stated in th it House—that the
Portuguese expedition was thoroughly contemptible, and
that it had not the slightest chance of ultimate success.
But to the declaration of that opinion he must add, that,
by the aid of English men and English money—by- the
purchase of ships of war and military stores, and by the
enlistment of foreign troops, it was possible that a consi-
derable effect might be produced in Portugal ; that that
country might be thrown into convulsion—and that suc-
cess, temporary if net permanent, might to a certain ex-
tent be achieved. He condemned, therefore, the whole

course which had been pursued by his Majesty's Govern—
ment with reference to that subject, although he would

not enter into any detailed consideration of it. If, how—
ever, the projected expedition were actually to take place,
let it not be supposed that it would be only a question be—
" '

tween the two Portuguese Princes; it would be a qu stirn
between this country and Portugal. In that case, the

confident hopes expressed in his Majesty's speech, that the
peace of Europe might not be interrupted, ivould most
undoubtedly be frustrated. Such an occurrence must lead
to a general war throughout the whole Peninsula, which

would be rendered a scene of struggle and bloodshed. It

was utterly impossible that the Spanish Government could
permit a revolutionary French faction to be dominant is
Portugal. For it was universally known that the revolution

contemplated was not merely the revolution of Portugal,
but the revolution of the whole Peninsula. Ti,e present
eias, therefore, the most critical moment for the peace
of the world; and the propriety of continuing our
most extraordinary relations with Portugal must, ere
long, come under the consideration of Parliament. He
had thought it his duty to make these observations ;
but he was perfectly disposed to concur in the address.

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM said that the Noble Se-
conder of the address justly complimented the Noble Mover
of the address on the good taste which he had displayed.
Unfortunately, however, the Noble Seconder did so at the

expence of his own speech ; and while he complimented
his Noble Friend on the good taste which he had exhi-

bited, slowed the value of that good taste by abstaining
from exhibiting it himself. A speech calculated, in so

extraordinary a manner, to provoke debate, he (the Duke
of Buckingham) had never beard. Well might the Noble
Earl at the head of the Treasury use the trite exp. ession :
—" Protect me against my friends, and I will protect my-
self against my enemies." But, however provoking the
speech of the Noble Seconder, he (the Duke of Bucking-
ham) would not follow him in the course which he had
pursued. He was fully prepared to justify the vote which
he had given on the Reform Bill in the last session ; but
he would not be so unparliamentary or disorderly as to an-
ticipate what might, at some future period, come before

their Lordships, or to " hark back" to that of which they
had already disposed. In the long debates which had

taken place during the last session oil the subj.ct of Par-
liamentary Reform, he did not :remember that either the
Noble Mover or the Noble Seconder of the address had fa-
voured their Lordships with his opinions. He regretted this.
He regretted that either of the Noble Lords hail reserved the
artillery of his arguments for the present occ.otion ; for it was
difficult to say what impression his eloquence might not
have made on their Lordships. Wbat was the fact of their
Lordships' present situation? That they were assembled
for a distinct object, for an object, the importance of the
con►ideration of which had been held to be overwhelm-
ing, at a moment when that great and over whelming

object had almost become one of secondary consequence.
For their first step must be, not to enquire what Parlia-
mentary Reform, or whether any, was desirable ; but to
take measures to render themselves a free, deliberative as-
sembly.—(Hear, hear.) Until those by whom they were
menaced were put down, they were not in a state for de-.
liberation. It was attempted to influence their Lordships
by intimidation and threats. When they asserted that
there was reaction, and that the people began to recoil-

older the question, they were referred to the riots at Bris-
tol, and the proceedings of the Political Union at Birming-
ham. Those riots and those proceedings, and the inter-;
ference of his Majesty's conduct with respect to them,
must become a subject of their Lordships' consideration.
Every word of the speech which related to Unions and
other illegal combinations, he warmly applauded ; and he
hoped that the opinions there so distinctly expressed
would be followed up by acts, if acts should be found
necessary. As to the question of Reform, he would not
give any pledge respecting it until he should see what it
was on which their Lordships were required to decide.
He certainly concurred in the opinion expressed in his
Majesty's speech, that " A speedy and satisfactory settle.
meta of the question became daily of more pressing im-
portance to the security of the State, and to the content.
ment and welfare of the people ;" and lie was relit!)• to
enter fully and deliberately into the consideration of the
question, with a view not only to constitutional principles,
out to the feelings and inclinations of the country, operated
upon by the growth of commerce, by the progress of edua
cation, and by the increased interest taken in political con-
cerns. On those grounds he approved of the address; re-
serving to himself his particular opinions upon the ques-
tion of Reform until that question should come regularly
under consideration.
Earl GREY said he would trespass upon their Lord.
ships' attention for a few moments. Ile had never expe-
rienced greater satisfaction than he had felt at the general
lone and at the particular expressions of the short speech
which had been addressed to their Lordships by the Noble
Earl who had commenced the present conversation. They
certainly would have exempted that Noble Earl, if he had
not before been fully exempted, from the charge of being
actuated by any motive but that of the purest public spirit.
It was in the highest degree satisfactory to him to hear
that Noble Earl say that, with one exception (a passage
easily corrected, and which it was very desirable and pro-
per should be so corrected), there was nothings which tie
Noble Earl wished to take away from the address, or to
add to it. Under those circumstances, he (Lord Grey)
felt a gratification, the greater because it was in some
degree unexpected, at the prospect of an unanimous
vote of the House on the present question. With re-
spect to the alteration—for he would rather so term it
than an amendment—proposed by the Noble Earl, he
(Earl Grey) thought it a most important improvement of
the address, which ought to have been so framed
in the first instance ; it nevor having been the intena
tion of those by whom it was framed that Parliament
should be pledged on a subject which was not yet ma-
ture for consideration. lie perfectly subscribed, therefore,
to the alteration ; and if the Noble Earl had no objection
he (Lord Grey) would rather that at should be incor-
porated into the original address, in order that that address
might pass their Lordships unanimously. He also agreed
ith the Noble Earl, that the present was not the time to
discuss the merits of a question not yet before their Lord-
ships. A Noble and Learned Earl had called that intro-
duction irregular and disorderly, Ile did not so consider
it. But he so far assented to the opinion of the Noble anti
Learned Lord, that, the Reform Bill of last tension having
oeen lost, and no other Bill being yet before them, their
Lordships were not in a condition to examine what ought
to be the particular character of such a measure; on
which, therefore, he (Lord Grey) would not say anything
ie.yond this—that, if it were supported by him, it must
lie founded on the same principles as the measure of last
session, and must be equal to that measure in efficiency.
—(Hear, hear.) To that most important discussion, lie
rusted, in common with the Noble Earl and the Noble
Duke, that their Lordships would conic with an earnest
lesire to form a deliberate and well-grounded opinion,
not only
butonly onon theits general political
they would
character of the mea-
a
some unfettered by any past decision, and allowing them-
selves full latitude of discretion on any future one; that they
would come with a determination--and the credit which
(ee)
cuiidde
tca, claimedkne s
cioo nef
n subjectattllilioetuh.eiyft circumstances of the case, as to thendhe was most ready to allow—to
on the best view which they
course which it would be most conducive to the best in-
crests of the State, and to the satisfaction and permanent
!ranquillity of the country, to adopt.—( Hear, hear.) Sin-
serely did he wish that tile discussion of the evening had
topped there. Nor would he be tempted by what had
allen on two topics of our foreign policy from the Noble
Earl—lately his Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign
\Hairs—to enter at that moment upon the consideration
if those topics. But he could not refrain from expressing
is surprise at the somewhat hasty conelt,:ous at which
:at Noble Earl nclusiona
il he wouldthen
was to prat, st. The
Noble Earl could not see why his Majesty's Govern-
!lent expected that the King of the Netherlands should
:hat hadd ao, rri
however,
Ar,gainst those es
sonstrit to the treaty proposed by the Five Allied Powers.