The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-24 00:00:00

Mr. FOX M .RULE differed in opinion from the Hon.
Gentleman wno hid just sat down.—(Cries of " Order.")
The moti' in for the second reading was then agreed to.
On the question that the Bill be committed,
Mr. F. MAULE again rose, and said he differed from
the Gentleman opposite as to the course they might
take upon questions of this nature. When he made a
statement in that House that was called in question out
of floors, he thought the most manly course to adopt
was to explain that statement, and leave no doubt upon
the minds of any parties in reference to it.-=(Hear.)
Mr. COBDEN said, if he understood the matter
rightly, the Liverpool Financial Reform Asseciation had
stated. that a system prevailed which held out.an induce-
ment for the colonels of regiments to ,job with the
clothing of their men, but the tracts: made no actual
charge against the officers themselves.—(Hear.) Certainly
the system held out such an inducement, and he believed
the country held that opinion.—(Cries of " No, no.") He
believed, moreover, the colonels themselves cendemned
the system, but, at all events, if he were a tailoring
colonel—(Laughter)—or a clothing colonel rather,
he would prefer receiving 5001. a year di-
rectly, than receiving 750/. under the pre-
sent system. With regard to what had fallen from
the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire, he must remind
the Honourable Gentlemen that when the corn-
laws were under discussicn he and others were not
so scrupulous as to answering the tracts of the
Anti-Corn-law Leage, while so far from public opinion
being against the Liverpool Financial Reform Associa-
tion, he could assure /he House that kindred societies
had sprung up in almost every town and
village throughout the country.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. A. STAFFORD denied that any member of Sir
Hobert Peel's Government ever called attention to
the tracts' of the Anti-Corn-law League. De-
nouncing such tracts while the general question
was under discussion was one thing, and
a member of the Government calling especial attention
to them another.—(Hear, hear.) At all events such
a proceeding was not likely to expedite the business of
the House, and he thought this debate' would prove it.
Sir DE LACY EVANS thought 'that the House had
somewhat deviated from the subjept before it. The
question was whether this association had' addressed
itself to this subject in a spirit which 'ivas !waffle and
detrimental to the character df The British
army, and he thought it would "be found
. • .
that those gentlemen in Liverpool who assumed to be
thoreughly acqiutinted with the matte' had jut forth
a variety of details, one-half of which were *al known
to be inaccurate.—(Hear, hear.). He (sir TrYis Lacy
Evens)' dished a fait and impartial '.'iivie#lgatiaal
into' that -as well -as into every bth'et , portion
of the -affairs connected with the army, he did
not like to see" a variety of "attacks ient Forth
in the shape of printed tracts by persons 'who were un-
acquainted with the subject, and who had written in a
spirit which he must say was anything but creditable to
their candour. Ile thought that the" Seeratary.nt-
War had done no more than his duty upon that Oc-
casion in -making the statement which he- had done.
`Mrs M. GIBSON said he drew this inference from
what had passed—that the whole discussion had, arisen
from an ill-considered charge having been brought
against a respectable association—(Loud laughter,' and
" Oh: oh," from the Opposition benches)—frornaCharge
which had been brought in that Houso against an asSos
ciation.—(Laughter.) That charge was in the first ins
stance made hastily; and the Minister who made it had
explained the grounds upon which he was induced
to make the imputation. That was the only course
which a gentleman in his position, he (Jft-.
Gibson) thought, could take with referenCe
to a charge which, without sufficient consideration, he
had thrown out against an association.—(Cries of " No,
no.") The Honourable and Gallant General had fallen
into precisely the same error as the Right Honourable
Gentleman the Secretary-at-War; he had also made; a
hasty and ill-considered charge against a respectable as,
sociation.—(A laugh.) He would challenge the Hon. arid
Gallant Colonel—(Cries of "General")—he meant the
Eon. and Gallant General—to prove the inaccuracies of
which he said the association had been guilty. He un
derstood that the statements with respect to the supply-,
ing of clothes by the colonels were not • deniedi
He believed that a committee of general offi-
cers, upon which committee his Honourable
Friend, the Member for Montrose, sat—(Loud laugh-
ter)—had themselves admitted that the system might
lead to the inference which had been drawn ;
and all the association said, if he understood mat-
ters right, was that the system was a bad one, and
might lead to an improper influence, and did
afford an inducement to officers to do certain
things which he was not aware the association charged
them with actually having done. He hoped for the
future that such hasty imputations would not again be
made upon societies.—(Laughter.) The whole pro-
ceedings he thought had been brought upon themselves
by their sweeping and ill considered censures.—(Oh, oh.)
The Bill was then ordered to be committed on Mon-
day next.

NAVIGATION-LAWS.
Mr. CLAY presented a petition from Hull, signed by
16 out of every 21 members of the Chamber of Com-
merce, in favour of the repeal of the navigation-laws.
Mr. LABOUCHERE rose to move that the House
do resolve itself- into Committee upon the navigation •
laws, but before doing so said he thought it his duty to
make a statement to the House with regard to an im-
portant alteration which he proposed to make. He had
stated to the House that it was his intention
to admit foreign vessels to a share of our
coasting trade, but that he did not attach
much practical importance to that alteration, be-
cause it it was impossible for foreign nations to avail
themselves fully of the advantages which such a pro•
vision would give. He was now bound to state that it
was not his intention to continue that assurance. His
Hon. Friend the Chief of the Commissioners of the
Customs was not prepared to say, at first, that the
clauses would throw any very considerable difficulty—.
that no such difficulty and danger would result, or
could with propriety be set in opposition to the course
the Government might think it advisable to
pursue with respect to a matter of great national policy
like that of the navigation-laws. Upon the faith and
in the full belief of that assurance he made the pro-
posals he had to the House. His Hon. Friend supplied
him with various Customs' regulations which had been
embodied in the Bill before the House, but in the course
of the lastfew days he had received communications from
his Honourable Friend to the effect that in going
further into these regulations, and in further exam-
ining this question with the most experienced officers
of the Customs, he had come to the conclusion that
if the carrying out of the regulations with respect
to the coasting ancl general trade were per-
sisted in it could not fail to be attended with
extreme difficulty—that it would be a most difficult mat-
ter to frame regulations which would not leave the revenue
exposed to great danger, if they were to do away with
the difference between the coasting and general trade
of the _ country. He said this danger would arise
mere from British ships engaged in the trade than from
foreign ships. Under these circumstances he did not
feel called upon to advise the House to throw opon the
coasting trade in the way he had originally proposed.
Let it, however, be understood that he did not
throw any blame on his Right Honourable Friend
at-the head of the Customs. On the contrary, he was
proud to take any blame that might exist in
respect of this matter upon himself. The
Bill thus very much returned to the same
state in which he proposed it to the House
last session.- The course he had adopted he should ima-
gine would in no way interfere with'their at once pro-
ceeding with the discussion of the Bill.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether, if the trade was
opened entirely, the difficulty mentioned -by the Hon.
Gentleman would be obviated?

Mr. LABOUCHERE replied that it would not. Great
difficulty would result if foreign vessels were allowed to
undertake a foreign as well as a coasting voyage. It
could not be done with any safety to the revenue.
Mr. GLADSTONE said, having objected to the
clauses referred to by the Hon. Gentleman on the se-
cond reading of the Bill, he did not rise to dispute the
desirability of the course he had adopted. Yet he could
not refrain from making some remarks upon that
course he had felt it his duty
topursue.
The first was that he had been more successful in jus-
tifying the conclusion he had now announced than in
showing that there were sufficient grounds for
the course originally proposed by him.—(Hear.)
No one who had heard the retractation of the
Honourable Gentleman could fail to be of
opinion that the Chief Commissioner of the Cus-
toms was originally against the clauses referred to.
He (Mr. Gladstone) confessed that he saw great incon-
venience if Ministers of the Crown made it
a practice to state the nature and result of
conferences which they had had with persons
connected with different departments, who, strictly
speaking, were subordinate functionaries, as the practice
tended to perplex the public mind as to
who was responsible with respect to public measures in-
troduced into that House.—(Hear.) He did not intend
to trouble the House with an amendment, but he could
not forbear stating the course he had originally intended
to pursue. He should have proposed a clause which re-
lated to conditional legislation; and secondly, a number
of clauses on direct legislation; and he should have pro-
posed a division of the whole trade of the empire into
two parts: one, the first of them, into that which re-
lated to the trade with foreign countries; and secondly,
into domestic or British trade, including the trade coast-
wise and likewise the trade of 'the colonies. He should
then have proposed to the House to enact by a law not
dependent on any discretion of the Crown, that when
any country was disposed to give to Great Britain per-
fect freedom in their foreign trade, they should receive
111.,nreeturn perfect freedom in our foreign trade; and that
An it was disposed to give perfect freedom in all ma-
ritime trade whatever both foreign and domestic, it
should then receive
theperfect freedom of British vessels
both
l coasting. and foreign. Ile should
also have urged, as the Bight GentlemanHonr.es
on would
the
now recommend, the repeat of the restraint im
portation of tropical produce from Europe, because that
was a restraint, according to the present l
af-
fected not only the foreign but Britishv e
saevv , which a
so. He
should have urged that tho 11,:us„,
(nd repeal abso-
lutely all fiscal restraint, everything •
in the, nature f
taxes on the British shipowner, both in ther
eo ' °
The "aandlng
and the manning of his ship. o jept of his pro-
posal was not to obstruct or embarrass the prOceedings
of the Government. He was not unfriendly to the re-
laxation of the navigation-laws. Ile wished to see their
repeal effected, but effected in a way which would, as far
as he was able to judge, have avoided
.any shock to the
great interest,: involved in British shippmg—(Cheers.)
Mr. HERMES was prepared, when he came down to
that House,t •
ogo at once into o C mmittee, being desirons
not to retard the proceedings on the Bill; but the
proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman had indeed

41.-L;Lik.