The Sun.
London, England, 1831-02-11 00:00:00

THE FINANCE.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the Order of the Day for the whole House to go into a
Commi•tee of Supply.
The SPEAKER having left the Chair, and the whole
House having resolved itself into a Committee,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, I
rise, Sir, on the present occasion with great diffidence. I
feel I am undertaking a task, which gentlemen, however
much accustomed to it, might have felt extremely difficult,
hut which I, who have:not been accustomed often to enter
into a statement of long detail, feel more peculiarly difficult.
I ant quite certain the Committee will give me credit for
saying, I shall not be inclined to detain them longer
than is absolutely necessary. At the same time 1
am afraid Honourable Members are aware I shall
not be able, during the time I may detain
them, to relieve the dryness of the financial details.
It is my intention to state to the Committee, on the pre-
sent occasion, the financial plans which are to be submitted
to the consideration of Parliament. I have taken a
very early opportunity of doing this, knowing the anxiety
of the House and of the country to be informed upon the
subject. I have taken the opportunity so early that on
taking what is the statement of the expenditure of the
present year, I find the estimates of the whole are not yet
before the House ; hut. nevertheless, I shall be able to state
the rough totals we intend to name as composing the finan-
cial statment. Before, however, I go into the statement, and
detail the alteration in the financial state of the country,
which it is my intention to submit to the House,
I shall take the liberty of stating what
the Government have been about with respect to reduc-
tions since they hare been in office. We have not been in
office long enough yet to be able to propose to the House
all the reductions which we hope to have it in our power
to make ; but already have we ascertained that there are
many reductions we should he able to effect—more im-
mediately, bat the greater part undoubtedly rapiiring le-
gislative measures to enable us to carry into execu-
tion. I shall state to the house now some of the names
of the offices we think we can reduce without detriment
to the public service. I shall state then, Sir, and 1 w:sh
the House to understand me not as stating them in the way
of producing any general immediate saving to the public—
still as producing something—not, however, so great is
something as might be expected, for undoubtedly it will
be necessary to provide far the persons thrown out of
office by making th rn an allowance. I mean to state
them and submit them to the House, principally
as effects the patronage of the Crown. The
Vice-Treasurership of Ireland is reduced--the Lieu-
tenant-Generalship and Clerk of Delivery at the Ord-
nance; the Auditor of the Civil List ; the Treasurer of
the Military College and Asylum ; the Postmaster-
General of Ireland ; two Commissioners of the Navy
Board ; Surveyor-General and Surgeon of Ireland ;
—two Commissioners of the Victualling Board ;
one Commissioner of the Navy in Jamaica, and
his clerk; the President of the Paymaster's Office;
seventy-one Officers reduced in the Dock-yards, rated
at from 60 to 600 pounds a-year ; an Inspector of
Stamps at Manchester—a vacancy having occurred—a
Distributor of Stamps in Cumberland : a Receiver-Ge-
neral in Scotland : and 4G Receiver-Generals in England—
in all amounting to two hundred and ten places, which
we conceive we can reduce, by the assistance of the
Legislature, during the present Session, if the
House will agree to the proposition we intend to
make. My Noble Friend at the head of the Colonial
Department considers that be cannot adopt all the
recommendations we can suggest as to inquiring
into the Colonial establishment of the country ; and he
is also sure that in going through the other offices similar
reductions can be made. The Lord Chancellor is like-
wise of opinion that very :considerable reductions can
be made in his department. Thus far, as regards the
patronage of the Crown ; and when I have been taunted
with ea) ingl thought the Government ought not to be carried
on any linger on the principle of patronage, this is the
answer I make to that statement. Having said so much, I
now apply myself to the Financial Statement. The mode
in which I estimate the supplies is the usual mode—
that is, I shall compare the supplies with the
Revenues of the last year, and then make such propo-
sal 11,4 seems to me right. The amount of charges for the
present year are 46,856,000/. I mean with the
interest of the Debt, Exchequer Bills, and the whole
of the changes. ['he increase of 1830 amounted to
fifty millions and six hundred thousand pounds ; but from
this there was to be deducted the amount received for taxes
on beer cider, and apart of sugar during the last year, which
will not be received this year which would reduce it to
47,150,000/. Then deducting from that 47,150,000/,
the charge which I have stated of 46,856,0001., the sur-
plus which remains is 300,000/. Sir, I have never been
an advocate for a large Sinking Fund, or a large surplus
revenue, but I do admit that 300,000/, is corning rather
toa Near the mark. I know that I am about to address
the House under an expectation on the part of the country,
that great reductions of taxes are be made—an expectation
which, though not founded upon the state of the
revenue, is nevertheless well founded upon the ne-
cessities of the country ;.and as much as possible
a considerable reduction of those taxes must be
made which press on the country. I do not know that
there ever was a period within my memory in which a
reduction of taxes might be made with much greater I
effect, arid with far greater relief, than at the present
moment. It is when the manufacturing industry of the
country is going on in a steady progressive state of iinP rove- (
people ment, that a reduction of taxes affecting that class of
most be productive of great stimulus and encouragement. I
Now the object I have in view is, of course, to relieve as I
much as I can the poor labouring classes. How, r
then, is this to be done ? Is it possible
to do th is by taking off taxes that press i
directly on them ? I am sorry to say it is not, for I - re-
gret to state that their situation is such that they con-
sume but few taxable commodities. I believe the
best mode of relieving the labouring classes of
this community,' or of any community, is Isy giviag
thorn employment; and the only redustion of taxes there

can be mane is to reduce those that can be conducive of
affording them that employment. It is with this view
I have considered attentively the whole of the taxation of
the country, and though it is impossible for me, in the
present state of the finances, to redtice to any large extent
taxation, yet, I hope, I shall be able to propose suchian altera-
tion of the mode in which the taxation is levied, as will give
great relief to the industry of the country, and promote
the prosperity of all our industrious classes.. Looking at
the taxes this way I have classed them. The first ct.,tt
that requires the attention of Government are those
taxes which by their largenees in atnnunt diminish the
receipt of the revenue ; that is to say, where they
are so large as to diminish the consumption of the
article. These are the first that ought to be attended to.
The second class is that which is composed of those
which press unequally on the population—taxes
which press on one part of the community and
not on the whole. The third class of taxes impor-
tantly requiring to he attended to, are taxes interfering
with the manufacturers, and taking much more from the
people than they can allow. It is upon them three classes
any man considering the state of the country will be
of opinion we ought to act, if he wishes to reduce
taxation for the improvement of the state of
the country. Having stated these as the ge-
neral views on which I mean to make the financial
statement, I should nut do justice to the lion. Member
.pposite for Queen's County if I did not acknowledge
that, I have taken a great deal cf my statement
from his calculation. I shall now first enumerate
the taxes I mean to reduce, and then state the amount
by which the revenue will be reduced by taking them off.
In the first class the first tax which by its amount
does not produce so much as it ought, clearly think is
tobacco. On looking through the receipts of the to-
bacco tax, the House will find it has varied in a most ex-
traordinary manner, exactly according to the increase
or diminution of duty upon it, I propose to
make a considerable reduction in the tax upon
this article. It is elk only that by making
this reduction the Revenue will suffer but very
little in comparison to the relief that will he afforded, but
it will have the effect pretty nearly (indeed as far as my in-
formation goes entirely) of putting a stop to smuggling.
Great relief will be afforded by this reduction not only to
England, but particularly to Ireland, where the article is con-
sumed to a great extent by almost all the lower classes of
society. I propose then to reduce the duty on raw
tobacco, which is 3s. to Is. 6d. ; and a duty upon manu-
factured tobacco which is 3s. to 4s. ad. Before Igo
farther, I may just advert to a motion of mine, which is
before thellouse,respecting the growth of tobacco in Ireland.
I do not mean to prohibit the growth of tobacco in Ireland ;
nor do I mean to afford it additional protection to what it
now has. To afford it protection would be to encourage the
growth of it; and I do think it could be encouraged
without affording it great protection.—(Hear, hear.)—
Now, Sir, there is another tax which I must confess I
have always strongly objected to, though it does not imme-
diately press on the industry of the labouring classes, yet
a tax which presses a good deal on the diffusion of
knowledge. I refer to the Stamp Duties on News-
papers, and the duty on Advertisements. I propose,
Sir, with reference to the tax on Newspapers, which
now is 4d., with a discount of 20 per cent., to
reduce that duty to 2d. without any:discount. With
reference, Sir, to advertisements, the duty on which
at present is Be. 6d. I propose to reduce that
as follows :—On every advertisement not exceeding teu
lines, I propose that one shilling duty be paid; above ten
lines, a duty of half-a-crown.—(Hear, hear.) I now
come, Sir, to speak on those taxes that press considerably
on the lower classes : and the first tax to which

I have to call attention is, the duty on sea-borne
coal.—(Hear, hear.) This, Sir, is a tax that bears di-
rectly on the labouring classes, by increasing the expense
of their fuel, and it presses in a much greater degree on
the growth of manufacture. In considering this tax we
must look to it as affecting England and Ireland, and I trust
th?t in taking off this tax, I shall not be considered as
having placed out of view the interests of Ireland. I in-
tend, Sir, to twee off the whole of this tax.—(Great
cheering.)—The House will see by this, and what I
have further to say, that I have considered those taxes
which press on the lower classes and the manufacturing
interest. I shall now refer to a tax which produces
far less revenue than what it takes out of the
pockets of the people. I refer to the tax on tallow
candles. This tax, I also propose to repeal altogether.
The next tax is one that also contains every objection
which CaR by possibility attach to any tax; I refer to the
taxes on printed calicoes. This produces a revenue of
two millions, placed on the productive interest of the
country, while the article, of which it is composed only
produces 500,000/. This, Sir, is a tax affecting that
particular class to which I have been referring.—
It is consumed by the poorer classes, and I have no doubt

the House will think with me that this is a tax which
ought to be taken off. Another tax to which I have applied
myself with great attention, as it is a tax on productive in-
dustry, is the tax upon glass; and I doubt not when this
article is removed from the trammels of the Excise that
the manufactory of an article so important in life will go
on with prosperity when combined with a reduction of the
taxes on sea-borne coals. In this case, the manufacturer
must pay duty on the whole body of the article he manu-
factured, whereas, when he has any thing ornamental to
produce he must cut away a great deal of that commodity
On which he has paid duty. These, Sir, are the taxes that
include the reductions. There are several small taxes—
about 163 I believe—which do not produce above 2,0001.
those will' be taken off. Now, Sir, I shall first state
dm amount, as it would appear, of the money that has
been received on these taxes. Upon the first tax which
I have the honour to call the attention of the House to,
namely, the tax on tobacco, there has been received two
millions, eight hundred thousand pound.,. The tax on
newspapers is four hundred thousand pounds—that would he
reduced to two hundred and eighty-four thousand pounds,
and the tax on advertisements would be reduced one hundred
and fifty thousand pounds. The tax on coals amounts to eight
hundred and thirty thousand pounds. The tax on tallow
candles produces 220,0001. This, Sir, will make in
the whole a reduction of taxation, in the relief of
are people, of four millions and eighty thousand pounds.
I now come, Sir, to where I shall state the mode in
which this deficiency to the revenue will be provided for.
In endeavouring to provide for this, I have been anxious
to pursue a course that would not interfere with the
productive industry of the country. The first tax which
I propose to increase in lieu of the taxes which I have
taken off,—l trust in pursuing the course which I
intend to take will be the means of diminishing the price
of the article to which I am now going to refer,
namely, that of wine. At the present time,
French wine pays a duty of 7s. 6d. per gallon. Other
wine 4s. 10d., and Cape wine 2s. sd. Now,
I propose to equalize tha whole of this duty at ss. Gd.
Although by this means there will be a considerable
rise in the duty on Cape, yet, I believe, gentlemen are aware
that that is a wine of which the consumption is but small.
The consumption of wine in consequence of this tax will not
be diminished, and I consider that the whole of this duty
of ss. Gd. will give about 1,840,0001. Sir, in the estimates
of the duties which I propose to repeal, I forgot to state
what would be the diminution of the revenue by the
adoption of that course. The reduction on the Tobacco
tax will be about eight hundred thousand pounds. The
reduction on Newspapers will be about 100,0001. That on

coals will be aboutB3o,ooo/. That on candles will not be a
reduction of 420,0001., for this reason—l have had a great
many communications from different quarters on all taxes,

and I have hid a strong representatation made to me by
the manufacturers of candles that I should not take off

the duty upon them till the 10th d.ly of October,
because they have stated to me that they take in
their stock of candles is the early part of the year, on
which they hnve paid duty, and on which they would be
entitled to no reduction. This tax, therefore, I do
not propose to repeal until the 10th of October.—.
The reduction, therefore, upon this, I shall calculate at

200,0001. The reduction on printed cotton will be 500,0001.
On glass 600,000/., and the reductio❑ on the other
taxes to which I have before referred, about 60,0001.
So that there will be areduction of upwards of 3,170,000/.
Before I digressed, I was on the alteration on

the duty on wines; by that I expect to gain about
240,0001. The next tax is of a similar nature.
It is a tax which I most strenuously advocated se-
veral years ago on the Committee of Foreign Trade. I
have always thought it a tax that ought to be increased.
I refer, Sir, to the tax on timber. At the present moment
that tax stands thus. On European timber there is at
the present moment a tax of ss. per load. On Canadian
timber 10s. I propose to increase them to 50s.
This, Sir, will increase the Revenue by about five hun-
dred thousand pounds. I should be sorry to do any
thing that would be hurtful to any of the staple
manufakurers of this country. But I am quite con-
vinced, —on reflection, that the measure which I
now intend to propose will certainly not have that
effect. I intend, however, to propose that a tax of

one penny a pound shall be laid on raw
cotton imported into this country, and a draw-
back also of one penny on all cotton goods.—
Th►s will leave an amount of taxation of 497,0001.
The next tax I intend to alter, and from which I expect
considerable revenue, is the tax on the exportation
lof coals. As the tax at present stands on that

article it is I is. 6d. upon large coats, and 4s. on
small. Now what I propose is, to equalize this by
imposing a tax of 10s. on all coal exported. I ex-
pect, Sir, a revenue from this to ths amount of 100,0001.
The next tax, Sir, which I propose w:'l be on steam-
boat passengers—.(Cries of hear and Laughter)—the tax
that I mean to lay on is for passongers under twenty
miles Is. a head; frorii 20 to 30 miles 25., and from 30
miles and Upwards 2s. 6d. This tax, Sir, I expect will
produce 100,000/. annually.—(Hear. )—I cannot see what
forcible objection there can he to this tai. I have con;
stilted a gentleman; who I consider a good authority
on this subject (Mr. teane, of the Custom-house) and he
considere.l there would be no difficulty in collecting it—
neither does he see any objection to it. I now have to
take another view on a different point, I allude to auctions
on the sale of all landed property, I cannot see the pro-
priety that there should be, as at present, a 'ess tax on the
sale of small estates than there is on larger ones ; I there-
fore intend to lay a tax of one half per cent. on the
transfer of all landed property by public auction.—(Hear,
hear, hear.)--4 do not see why the higher classes should
not he taped to the full extent of all others,
neither do I see why the transfer of one kind of property
should be taxed and not another, I therefore propose to
lay a similar tax on all sales of the public funds.—(Hear,
and cheers from all parts of the House.)—The tax that I
mean to propose is half per cent., or ten shillings, upon
eNcery hundred pounds bonafide transfer of stock.—( )
But, Sir, it is not my intention to tax the transfer of stock,
where it is only dime for tho purpose of giving security to
raise a loan of money. lam aware, Sir, of the delicacy
and difficulty attending the subject, but I do not think
there are any disadvantages equal to the benefit that will
be derived, neither can I see for one moment that the House
agreeing to this proposition will affect the public credit, hut
Ido think they will give general relief. Neither do I
tbink, as I before said, that it it is any infraction
of the public faith consistent with the advantages
that it would cerainly bring to the country. It may
be said, Sir, that this is only a beginning, but we have the
security that we lay the same tax on land as we do on the
funds. We do not tax land to the exclusion of the funds, as
on transfers of all descriptions of property the same tax
will be levied. The House will bear in mind that Ido
not propose to tax the transfer of stock, when it
is only transferred as a security for a loan of money.
If I did, it would be a great inconvenience to the com-
mercial world. I therefore give the privilege of excep-
tion in such cases. It now, Sir, becomes me to state

what I expect In derive from these taxes. From
the tax on the transfer of landed and funded pro-
perty, I calculate will be derived a sum of 1,200,000/.
From the tax on transfer of stock about 800,0001. and
from land somewhat under 500,0001. From the total
amount of taxes that I propose to lay on I expect will pro.
duce a total of 2,750,000/. Now the revenue in the year
1830 amounted to 47,150,000/. The taxes I propose tore-
duce will amount to 3,170,000/., leaving the reduced reve-
nue 44,160,000/., add to this the new taxes, amounting to
2,750,000/. , it will then produce a revenue of 47,370,0001.
which I calculate will leave a surplus of revenue over the
expenses of the country of somewhat more than 450,0001.
In making these alterations, I have consulted many
gentlemen well versed on the subject, and their opinion co-
incides with mine—that the money interest will not like the
change, but that the manufacturing interest will. Now,
Sir, I consider this the greatest recommendation my plan
could have.—(Hear, hear.) I consider that the taking
off the taxes off cotton, coals, and glass, will very much
increase the consumption of those articles. It may
be thought a bold experiment ; but in my conscience
I believe it will meet the interests of all, and I believe
that the plan will succeed. At all events I have been
guided with a wish for the prosperity and welfare of the
country.
On the motion that a supply be granted to his Majesty,

The Right Hon. H. GOULBURN rose. He said tha'

he could [never have contemplated witnes.ing on the part
of. a Minister of the Crown, such a departure from prin-
ciple as the statement of the Noble Lord this evening ex-
hibited. It seemed, indeed, as though he had laboured to
draw a distinction between the manufacturing and the
moneyed interest. It had hitherto been the anxious
wish of the Government of this country to unite
them as in one body, but the Noble Lord seemed desirous
only of giving pleasure to the manufacturer and pain to
the monied classes.—(Loud cries of "hear, hear, and no,
no.")—He repeated that he appeared only to wish to please
the one, totally regardless of displeasing the other. He
looked upon the great imposition of a stamp duty on
the transfer of funded property as one of the gros-
sest violations of public faith that had been con-
templated. It had hitherto been the great
and first object of Government to keep the compact be-
tween those who lent their money and those who
borrowed it inviolate, and he was quite sure,
from the knowledge he had of the right feelings
that noble Lord possessed, that had he himself
been aware of the extent of his own proposition, that he
would never have ventured upon it. The statutes under
which the stock was created contained the most specific
engagement that could be framed that the transfer of it
should not be burdened with any stamp duties.—
Nothing could be more positive or more binding than that
engagement was, and consequently no measure would be
a greater violation of public faith than the one which was
now proposed. It was most unjust, and he would
unhesitatingly predict that it would be found as impolitic
as it was unjust.—(Hear, hear.)—lt must of necessity
have the inevitable tendency of extinguishing that rapidity of
transfer• which rendered property in the public funds
so peculiarly eligible. It was, too, as he bad already
stated, the grossest violation of faith with the public creditor
that was ever contemplated.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained.

The NOBLE LORD, however, spoke so low as to be totally
inaudible in the gallery. We understood hint to say that
the imposition of the Property Tax was a far greater de-
parture from the spirit of the statute than the measure he
now proposed could have.
The Right Honourable HENRY GOULBURN
continued. The more he heard of the measure, the more
was he convinced that it was one which the House ought
most attentively and most patiently to investigate, pre-
viously to deciding upon it; he had before him a sketch to
which he alluded, and most assuredly words could not
be more strong, laws could not be more binding
than those in which the laws to which he referred
was couched. The Right Hon. Gentleman here read
the clause which enacted that no stamp duty should
at any time be imposed upon transfer or trans-
fers of stock in Government Securities, whatever Act of
Parliament or Statute might be passed to the contrary
notwithstanding.—(Hear, hear.)—He conjured the Noble
Lord to recollect the grievous injury it would inflict upon
that portion of the community which appeared, he was
satisfied, honestly so, the objects of his Lordship's sympathy.
Let but the Noble Lord and the House only recollect the
numerous small sums that were invested in the public funds
from the Saving Banks—which institutions bad hitherto
enjoyed the fostering protection of that 110116 e. It would
indeed effectually prohibit their continuing in their pre-
sent course of usefulness. Let it also be recollected that
many individuals in the country purchase small sums,
such as 501. for instance, in spring, which they had to sell
again at rent-day, or when they might want money.
All such transactions would be at once put a atop
to, unless indeed people choose to continue it,
for the sake of putting money into the pockets of Govern-
ment. He in his conscience believed that the operation
of this measure would do more to injure the people than all
the gain they could have only from measures which
the Noble Lord proposes for their relief. Had,
be would ask, the Noble Lord enquired
into the magnitude of these transfers which were making
every day and hour in the funds? But he must have
done so, or he could not have calculated the
amount of the Revenue he anticipated from this tax. Let
it likewise be considered that if they taxed the
transfer of property in our funds, they could not
impose a similar tax on the funds of other nations.
It was consequently holding out a bonus to in-
duce people to make their investments in other funds.

Mr: Alderman WAITHINIAN considered that there was
nothing more important to have been reduced than
the house and window taxes. It was to be inferred
from the report of the proceedings of the House, that
Mr. Pitt admitted that this tax during his time was
two-thirds above its value. It was a subject to
which he (the Honourable Alderman) wished the
Noble Lord opposite particularly to turn his mind.—
He should have no objection to the substitution of any
other fair and reasonable tax, because he did not
wish to cripple his Majesty's Government of all its
resources, but he said now as he had said before, that if it
was imagined the relief that was absolutely necessary to be
afforded to the country could be given to it, con-
sistent with what is called good faith to the public, neither
the present nor any other Government could possibly do it.
It might linger for a time, it might drag its own length
with it in the attempt, but no Government whatever
could do it. He really believed the great difficulty
the Governmant had to encounter was the controul and
management of Parliament from a corrupt system, and
the number of incumbrances upon the Government.
There was but one way of affording relief. Let
the Government adopt that course, and should they
perish, let them perish gloriously by throwing them-
selves on the public.—(Cheers.)
Dlr. JOHN SMITH felt great anxiety on tke present

occasion. 1440 man in the Mouse had Seen the
formation of the present Government with more
satisfaction than himself, bee use he had seen the Members
of it pledged themselves to certain measures which
if they conducted with prudence would, in his
opinion be of the highest service to the country.—
He, however, was under the necessity of saying, that he
certainly thought that one of the measures brought forward
this , night was ill-advised, dangerous, and ought
not to be persisted in.----(Loud cheers.) He Mould take
the liberty of calling the attention of the House to the sub-
ject, making a few observations which his situation in life

enabled him to offer. The Noble Lord had propose,

a tax on the transfer of stock in the funds. - For
his own part, he was one of the last to wish for any
thing like seeing the honour of the country violated—
(Hear, hear)—but if they should be driven to any
thing like it, they had therefire always one means,
that of certainly resorting to the property of the
rich. To be able to have money in the funds was exceed-
ingly useful ; but, if for instance, a man were to pay 500/.
for transferring 100,000/. Consols, he would undertake to
say that that any man would not, under any thing like
ord:nary circumstances, make the transfer. It was
well known that bankers make large advances in
stock, which was of the highest importance to the
community. In that dreadful crisis, namely, in 1825
and 1826, what was the situation of the city of London ?
Individuals then sold large sums of stock, and
advanced the money. With the prothare of the stock they
assisted their friends in London, in the country,
and every where; and had it not been for the great
exertions made by individuals, above all, the extraordinary
and excellent conduct of the meritorious individual who
at that period of time filled the Chair of the Aank
his own opinion was that universal ruin and discredit
would have extended over England. Had 500/. to have
been paid for the transfer of one hundred thousand
Consols at that time, for a period of about a
a month, or longer, or shorter, scarcely a man
wonld have been formed to have made the transfer. He
Noble Lord had talked of bona-fide transfers—in
the name of God how was he to distinguish between bona
fide and other transfers ? He really knew not; and if he were
under the necessity of not getting his money transferred in
the stocks without paying this enormous tax, he should be
exc, edingly cautions of lending it ; nor did he know any
man who who would not think twice before he lent his
money. If, then, when there were contracts in Lon-
don, for instance, of millions of stands of arms,
and milliens:of yards of cloth ; could any prudent man
dare to enter into suchcontracts, if he could
not get that sort of credit which his respectability and
character had heretofore entitled him to get, but which

he could not by any possibility get, if the Funds
of the country were not made available to him.
The Funding system promised to keep the peace
of the whole of Europe; as to war for
his own part he had nexer been aware of it, nor had
any nation the power which this country had
to contend with it in war, but nothing short of
maintaining the dignity and the honour of the
country would ever again induce England to enter the
field of battle. The funding system it was that
afforded England this superior strength.—(Hear.)—ln
conclusion he hoped the Noble Lord would consult
with those individuals who had no interest

in the subject, but who (and many there were
to be found) could tell him all the conse-
quences of this measure. They were so important,
so inconvenient, and so severe that it would be
impossible to escape from them. The only remedy people
could have of keeping their credit would be, to keep
their money in their own pockets; and he should
really be glad to know what would be, so injurious
to this country with a rising trade, than to cripple
our resources. He felt great reluctance to oppose any mea-
sure this Gnvernment might propose, but he should
oppose the present measure, because he thought it would be
most injurious to a particular class of persons who ought not
to be selected to suffer, and calculated to destroy the best
interests of society.
Mr. MABERLY sad, that in his opinion the trans-
fer of all property of every description ought to he free
from taxation, and he hoped the Noble Lord would with-
draw his resolution on that subject. He still would have
an opportunity of making reductions by increasing the
taxes less oppressive. He thought an additional tax might
be put upon spirits. He threw out this hint that it might
be well considered in Committee. With respect to the
reduction of the expenditure, he would go the full length
of the Noble Lord, and give him his hearty support;
but the objectionable proposition of taxing transfers of pro-
perty he hoped would be reconsidered, and he was sure
the Noble Lord would be convinced of the propriety of
withdrawing that proposition. _

. .
Several Members rose at the same time, but gays
way to
Mr. K. DOUGLAS—He said that in his opinion the
propositions of the Noble Lord were founded in the greatest
injustice ; or he would go farther, and say they were dis-
honest, and so the country would think when they became
acquainted with them. The Noble Lord had not ex-
plained to the House whether he intended to
tax the transfers of money in the saving banks,
on the property of joint stock companies, Bank Stock,
or canal property, he thought, if that was not explained,
the statement that would appear before the public
to-morrow, would lead to the belief that such was his in-
tention. He therefore hoped that an explanation would
be given on that point. He (Mr. Keith Douglas)
also objected to the equalization of the duty on
wine, a distinction ought to he made between that
imported from our own Colonies from that of foreign
countries. He regretted that no allusion had been made
by the Noble Lord to the distress that existed
in the West Indies. After some further observations,
the Hon. Member said that he should give the resolutions
his most decided and determined opposition.

Mr. Alderman THOMPSON could not, in justice to
his constituents, let the present discussion pass over with-
out offe, ing a few observations, and express his opposition
to that proposition of the Noble Lord for laying a tax
on the transfer of funded property. If the public cre-
ditor had relied on the justice of Parliament at a time
when they considered the reduction of the Five per Cents. to
4i and the 4 per cents. to 31-, they then relied upon the
assurance that no alteration would be made on the funded
property, and agreed to the proposition. He was confident
it would create the greatest dissatisfaction in the city of
London,and afford a precedent for the Minister of next year,
whoever he might be, to come down to the House and lay an
additional:tax of one, two, or three per cent. If this tax
on the transfer of the funded property were to take place, it
would have the effect of driving capital out of this country
into others, where the Government did not interfere.—
(Hear, hear, bear.)—He was quite satisfied with the
proposition of the reduction of coals, candles, glass,
&c., hut if the measure was to be accompanied
by a tax on the transfer of funded property, lie was sure
the country would much rather that things should remain
in the same state that they were at present than have any
alteration at all.

(LEFT SITTING.)

PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.

L UR G 211 V.

(Abridged from the Belfast Northern Whig of Monday.)
A meeting of the inhabitants of the town and neigh-
bouurhood of Lurgan was held in the Court-house of that
town, on Saturday, the 22d inst. to petition Parliament

for Reform;

WILLIAM Join; HANCOCK, Esq., Seneschal of the Manor,

in the Chair,

Mr. JAmv.s. JOHNSTON moved the first resolution. He
wished briefly to say, that the state of this unhappy
country is unprecedented in the history of the world—a
country abounding with all the necessaries of life, and yet
the working classes bordering on starvation. The people,
owing to the lowness of wages, and the scarcity of em-
ployment, cannot provide food sufficient to support a mi-
serable existence; nor is it in the power of their employers
to augment their wages, owing to the depressed state of
our trade and 'manufactures. In his opinion, the only re
medy for the present calamitous state of things is, to repeal
the Corn Laws, for by this means the price of bread will
be so reduced, that the small earnings of the poor man will
purchase more food to support himself and miserable
family. He considered it the duty of Government to re-
lieve the starving population, and he believed it their in-
terest also—fOr, if any disturbance should take place, the
Government or landed interest would have more at stake
than any others.—(Cheers.)
GEORGE M`MILLAN. in rising to speak to the
fourth resolution, hoped the circumstances connected with
his sphere of life, as a mechanic, together with his re-
tired habits, would be a sufficient apology for those de-
fects which disqualified him for speaking in public.
The Aristocracy have assumed a power which is incom-
patible with the true spirit of the Constitution. Thi•
rabble.—(Hear.) He would assert, that intelligent rational
men, of whatever
grade, whose principles are loyalty, ob.
jects peace, and
conduct legal, ought at all times to he
patiently heard by the Government, on the subject of their
grievances. The time is come when the people must be
heard. The Aristocracy must come down from their
elf-constructed elevation. The political gulph betwetn

the Lich man and Lazarus in this world must b filed up.
The times of ignorance are past.
" Understanding and deep reasoning power,
From dwarfish stature rising masculine,
In spite of bigotry, are growing big."
Yes, Sir, knowledge has grown not only big, but gigantic.
It has assumed a colossal Size, far superior to that which
once stood on the island of Rhodes, holding forth its
light-house, to guide the storm-tost mariner safe into
harbour. The colossus which he referred to, now stands
with a foot on either liemispbere.—(Cheers.)—The mighty
waves of the wide Atlantic roll beneath his stride. The
crowns of despots are under his feet. He also holds forth
the beacon of liberty in his hand, enlightening tl!e
universe. The whole continent of America has received
its light. Europe, also, is beaming with its illumina-
tion. Greece—France—Belgium—are illuminated. Its
rays have penetrated into the dark regions of the North.
The lofty turrets of Berlin and Warsaw are gilded with
its beams.—(Cheers.)
Mr. WELLS-Mr. Chairman, I give my support to the
motion before you, that is, triennial Parliaments, vote by
ballot—(lmmense cheering)—and an extension of the
elective franchise.

Mr. J. H. BOYD moved the fifth resolution, which was
seconded by Mr. H. GILBERT, jun,, and carried unani-

mous'y.
A petition, embodying the spirit of the resolutions was
then agreed to, to be entrusted for presentation, in the
House of Commons, to Charles Brownlow, Esq., our pa-
triotic representative, and that Lord Acheson he requested
to support the prayer of it; and to Earl Gosfurd, in the
House of Lords, or in the event of his refusal to support it,
to be forwarded to Earl Grey.
The thanks of the meeting were then voted, by accla-
mation, to the Chairman, and the meeting broke up.

BILS TON.
(From the Wolverhampton Chronicle.)
A meeting of the inhabitants of Rilston, convened by
the chief constable, in compliance with a most respectably
signed requisition, was held at the Publlc Offue, on Friday,
last, for the purpose of " taking into consideration the
❑ecessity of petitioning both Houses of Parliament for a
real, substmtial, and effectual Reform in the representa-
tion of the people ; and also 'or an extension of the elec-
tive franchise to the parish of Wolverhampton, of which
the township of Bilston forms so important a part." The
meeting was very numerously attended, and it was com-
_

posed of the most wealthy and influential inhabitants of
the place.
The Rev. Mr. LEIGH (Clergyman of Bilston) being

unanimously called to the Chair addressed the meeting to
the following effect :—Gentlemen, for more than twenty
years it has been the conviction of my mind that a Reform
in the Commons' House-of Parliament was absolutely ne-
cessary for the well tieing of the country. My sentiments
have never changed ; I was a reformer then, and lam a
reformer now. But I have never belonged to any political
. . .

club in my life, nor have I ever attended a Iteform meet

ing till to day ; nor should I have encouraged this, but
from the belief that petitioning is the only course to be
taken to save us all from ruin. It may be supposed, per-
haps, that, as a Clergyman, I may dread a Reform in the
Church. Not I, indeed ! on the contrary, if there be
abuses in the Church, let them be looked up, an,l, if dis-
covered, let them be corrected. Why should I fear in-
vestigation ? There is no cause for alarm to those who
are really and truly labourers in the vineyard; it is nbt
the working bees, but the drones, who need fear—those
. _

who receive the hire without the labour—and this is no'

my case. The Commons' House of Parliament ought to
lie a faithful representation of the voice, the opinions, and
the wishes of the people; but it is a notorious fact, that
constituted as that House now is, a majority of its Mem-
bers are but the nominees of Peers or other private indi-
viduals, and therefore can have no claim to the title of the

people's represent,itives. I beg, however, not to be mis-
understood. Let it not be supposed that lam an enemy
to the aristocracy of my country. God forbid ! I think
them entitled to every man's highest respect. I only wish

to keep them in their proper places. I presume a Peer
would not be well pleased to see one of our representatives
take a seat by his side in the Howe of Lords, and there
give a vote : hew then can a Peer expect that we are
pleased in seeing him take a place in the House of Com-
mons, which we all know he does by proxy, which is the
same thing ? I ask if this is not unconstitutional ? and I
ask if from this corrupt source have not issusd a gross mis-
management of the public affairs, a profligate expenditure
of public money, an unnecessary interference with Foreign
Powers, long and expensive wars, producing a national
debt enormous in amount, and having in its train excessive
taxation, commercial and agricultural distress, na-
tional wretchedness, and national despair ? Of the
profligate expenditure of the public money there are
proofs without number; hut I will merely name one
—the Civil List. Whoever has read, as set forth
in that excellent Paper the Times, an abstract from
that list, will be satisfied ?—a civil list, indeed—never

was such a misnomer ! I call it a most uncivil
list, and a perfect insult to the feelings of a country
bowed to the very earth by excessive taxation.—

Observe, in the election of county members, what an
absurdity presents itself in the right of voting, and how
very limited it is rendered by such absurdity ! The owner
of property, however large, if it be what is termed copy-
hold, has no vote : thus the proprietors of half Biiston
have no voice, because they happen to live on one side
of a brook, whilst those living on the other side have !
Was there ever anything so ridiculous ? I ask, if such
crying evils exist, is it not high time they were removed?
Is there not urgent necessity for petitioning ! Nay, is it
not every man's bounden duty to join in petitioning for a
real, a substantia', and effectual Reform? For unless it
be so, the country will be grievously disappointed, and
the consequences dreadful even to contemplate, See the
state of public opinion upon the subject; look at this
meeting, ever which I have the honour to preside, arid
find a man, if you can, who will be bold enough to say
that the inhabitants of Bilston are not unanimous upon

the subject ! But I will go further I will refer to the
country at large, and I will, for toy proof, instance the
case of the Duke of Wellington. I need hardly say how
great was his popularity! Wherever he appeared, he was
received with acclamations and joy. What Englislan xn
was ever heard to grumble at his titles, his lionouts, his
pensions ? Has he not given names throughout the
whole land to things the most trifling, undertakings the
most important, and structures the most stupendous, from
a Wellington boot up to a Waterloo-bridge ! ! I—This was
the Duke of Wellington !—Look at his Grace now. In an
evil hour he set at nought the public opinion upon Re
form—he made that fatal and frantic declaration upon the
opening of the new Parliament, when the whole kingdom
was on the tip-toe of anxiety and expectation—that in his
opinion " the representation was as good as it need be—
that neither be nor his colleagues had any plan of Reform
to offer,—and that so long as he was at the head of Go-
vernment, none should be listened to !" In consequence
of this uncalled-fur, this insulting assertion, from one end
of England to the other his popularity died ; and if his
name be now proposed as a toast at any public dinner, it is
absolutely reqnisite for that toast to be prefaced by the obser-
vation, that his Grace's health is not given as a Statesman,
hut in another character—a character, in which I pray
that it may always be drank with enthusiasm, in spite of
a'l his misdoinga—l mean as the Hero of Waterloo.
During the delivery of hiS speech, which lasted for more
than an hour, the Rev. Gentleman was very frequently
interrupted by the long and loud applause of the meeting,
and when he sat down there was continued cheering.
Mr. Willem, Mr. T. Bankes, Mr. Perry, Mr. W. S.
Biekley, 31;-. E lward Best, Rev. Air. Fletcher, Mr. N.
Best, Mr. William Dean, and Mr. John Mason, moved
and seconded the resolutions in able addresses, which our
confined limits prevent us from giving.
The most perfect order was observed during the whole
time the business of the meeting was transacted, and not
a single voice was raised to disturb the harmony or destroy
the unanimity which prevailed ; but at the conclusion a
simultaneous burst of applause broke from the crowded
assembly, which lasted fur many minutes ; after which the
company quietly separated.

Lord ALTHORP'S declaration on the Civil
List discussion, that " the majority of the pensions on the
list were merely and purely pensions of charity," seems to
indicate a state of things, amongst the " pillats of State,"
in the highest degree deserving of the attention of Pattie-
ments No part of the community should be dependent on
the capricious bounty of individuals for subsistence ; and,
if the distress of the patrician classes be thus severe, it is to
be hoped that the good old m ixint, " there is not one law
for the rich and another for the poor "—nay, common
humanity itself—will suggest the necessity of a Peer's-
rate as well as a poor's-rate.—Morning Herald.
_ _

" Mothers and Daughters is, without even
the exception of ' Maxwell,' 'the best novel of the season
as far as the season has gone, and will always remain an
admirable specimen of the fashionable school. It is a
faithful, exact, and withal spirited picture of the Aristo-
cracy of this country—an admirable description of what is
called high life, and full of a more enlarged knowledge of
human nature. This is the novel which should have been
ca led the ' Excluives.' We recommend Mothers and
Daughters' to readers of all classes: to the politician and
moralist the Wol k will give infurinstion—to the novel
reader am asemen t."-- Spectator.