The Sun.
London, England, 1825-03-26 00:00:00

110 USE OF COMMONS.

Mr. DElrxrso..tr presented petitions from the Commis-
sioners of the Highways in the parish of St. Mary Magda_
len, and from the Commissioners of Sewers, against the East
London Docks' Bill.—Ordered to be referred to the Committee
on the Bill.

Sir M. W. R IDLE Y presented a petition from the Owners of
Colliers on the River Tyne, against the Weardale Rail-road
Bill.—Referred to the Committee on the Bill.

Mr. LITTLETON presented a petition from the Company of
the Thames and Severn Canal, against the Rail-road miming
from the Severn to Bristol Point. —Laid on the table.

"Sir I. VAUGHAN moved the second reading of the
Carnarvon Railway Bill.—The Bill was ordered to be com-
mitted.

Mr. ET.LICE brought up the report of the East London
Docks' Bill, which stated that the Standing Orders had not
been complied with.—Referred to the Committee of Standing
Orders.

Mr. Alderman THOMPSON presented a petition from the
Householders of the parish of St. John, Wapping, against the
Collier Docks' Bill.—Referred to the Committee on the Bill.
Mr- CHALMERS presented the report of the Committee
upon the Duke of Nortidk's petition against the Thames Quay
Bill.—Ordered to lie on the table. •
Colonel BAGWELL presented a petition from the Merchants
and Traders of Clonmel, for the repeal of the Duty on Coals.—
Ordered to be printed.
Mn S. RICE presented a petition from the Inhabitants of the
City and Liberties of Limerick, in favour of Joint Stock Bank-
ing Companies.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the Inhabitants of
Brandon, in the County of Suffolk, for a repeal of the Assessed
Taxes.—Ordered to be printed.
CATHOLIC CLAIMS.
Mr. EGERTON presented a petition from the Dean and Chap-
ter of the City of Chester against further concessions to the Ca-
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE rose to present a
tholles.—Ordered.to be printed.
petition from the
inhabitants of a certain parish in the county of Leicester against
the Catholic Claims. The Hon. Member proceeded to road
portions of the petition, praying that the oath respecting tran-
substantiation might not be repealed. The petitioners went
on (as the Hon. Baronet stated) at some length with reasoning
of that nature.--r(A laugh, in which Mr. Abercrombie joined.)
—He (Sir T. Lethbridge) was not aware that be had said any
thing to call forth a smile from any Honourable Gentleman.
The subject on which the petitioners addressed the House was
one whiCh called for any
sneer—it being one to preserve from
thing but mirth—for any thing but
ridicule—any thing but
alteration the constitutional laws of the realm. Never, until
lately, had he heard petitions from the people treated with
disrespect, and he was sure it would he admitted that that
was not .the best mode of advocating concession. for

self he should say:that he was determined and resolutely
resolved to continue his opposition to the claims of the Ca-
tholics.

Mr. A BERCROMBIE hawing been so pointedly alluded to
by the Hon. Bart. disclaimed any intention to treat the peti-
tioners with disrespect. He had laughed, because the reason-
ing of the petitioners was in favour of rather than in opposition
-to concession; for the petitioners remarked, that previous con-
cessions had only encouraged the Catholics to come forward
with periodical attacks, by petition, upon'the remaining Penal
Laws, a proof that the concessions already granted had induced
the Catholics to rely upon constitutional means for obtainiag the
total repeal of the laws which affected them. .
The petition was ordered to he printed.
Lord A. HAMILTON brought up the Report on the Scotch
Sheriffs' Cotirts Bill. The bill was ordered to be read and
committed on Monday next.
Sir li. PARNELL brought up the anpual report of the Com-
missioners of the Holyhead roads.
Mr. A nERCROMBIE, presented a Petition from the Proprie-
tors of Lands in the county of Waterford, praying for a Repeal
of Foreign Duties.—Ordered to he printed.
Sir A. Curet' ESTER presented a Petition from certain Pro-
testant Inhabitants of Belfast, against further concessions to
the Catholics.—Ordered to be printed.
111 r. F. LEWES presented a Petition from the Spinners and
others concerned in the Cotton Trade, in the town of Belfast,
for a Repeal of the Duties on Coals. —Ordered to be printed.
Mr. DAwsoN presented a Return of the dumber of Boys ap-
prenticed to Chimney-sweepers.
CUSTOMS CONSOIJIDATION ACT.--REDUCTION
OF IMPORT DUTIES.

On the motion of Mr. HUSK ISSON, the House resolved itself
into a Committee of the whole House, on the Customs and
Stamps Duties Consolidation_ Acts. Mr. Hart Davis in the
Chair.

Mr. HUSKISSON then said, that in rising to request the
attention of the Committee to the removal of certain duties now
paid Upon the importation of foreign articles, or rather to a mo-
dification of the duties paid upon the importation of tbreign
articles used in the manufactures of this country, and also to
the rate of protecting duties imposed with a view to encourage
those manufactures against the manufactures of foreign coun-
tries, he trusted that he should again experience their kind
indulgence. He felt assured of so doing, not only from the
indulgence and kindness which he had before uniformly re-
ceived when it became necessary for him to request it upon
similar topics, but because experience bad now convinced the
House and the country of the immense advantages to be
derived from removing restrictions, and putting aside all
madding interference with the course of our trade and com-
merce. However confident his Right Honourable Friend
the Chancellor of the Exchequer and himself had been in
the success of those measures which they had gradually intro-
duced since the peace for the restoration and improvement of
the commerce of the country—however confident they might
have been, it was impossible that they should not feel (at
least he could not help feeling), that in the application of prin-
ciples which they knew to be just and true in themselves, it
was possible for adverse circumstances to arise, which would
defeat their operation. It therefore became them to be cau-
tious, and to act with circumspection before they called upon
the public to support them in the career which they meditated
with so Much anxiety. But now he was bold to :ay, that there was
not one instance in which the forebodings of those who opposed
them not only had not proved well founded, but where they had
not, they had not proved altogether visionary: On the other hand
their own most sanguine expectations, and the expectations of
those who supported them, had in every instance been more
than realized. This result, so gratifying to them, could not be
less so to those who anticipated one so different ; and it must
be a relief to them to reflect that such predictions and warn-
ings had not alarmed them from the prosecution of their pur-
pose, while it ought to render them the more anxious- now to
give their support to the Government, and to encourage them to
continue in a path which led so directly to the public good.
The House would neollect that in the course of the last Ses-
sion, when an entire change was proposed to be made in the
laws relating to an important branch of our manufacture—he
meant the Silk Laws; it was suggested, that instead of the en-
tire prohibition of foreign Silks, an import duty of thirty per
cent. upon the value of the article should be paid. .Some
Gentlemen at the time thought that duty too high—not the ma-
nufacturers, for they thought it inadequate to the protection of
their own article; but others, and he (Mr. 11.) for one, be-
lieved that it was too high for a very different reason,
and that was that it would still leave too great a latitude for
The fears of the the operation of the smuegler.
manufactur-
ers had, he hoped, by this time subsided. Indeed, if a 4 fear
remained, he believed that it was transferred to the nianufue-
' totes of other countries, whom, he had reason to know, already
felt much apprehension and uneasiness at the progress which
our silk manufacture had made, and the improvements which
were still going on in it.. If, then, a protecting duty of 3t) per
cent. was sufficient upon the only branch of our manlifactures
in which we were in some respects behind hand with foreign
countries, it became them to consider, in respect to other
branches which had long flourished and maintained a supe-
riority in all parts of the world, whether they should continue
to preserve a system of useless prohibitory duties, which only
placed the trade in those articles of foreign produce is the
hands of sinegglers instead of tlse legitimate merchants of the
country. With this view he should first call the attention of the
Committee to that branch, which was the greatest and most ex-
tended of all the manufactures of this country—the manufacture
of cotton, lie apprehended no one would doubt, that we ex-
celled all rivals in the manufacture of this article, and that we
had the preference in every market of the world, both in respect
to price and quality. Ile. believed these was no quarter of the
world in which our cotton goods had not a decided advantage
over those manufactured in auy other country. If it were ne-
cessary
to bring forward proofs of this, he would refer the Corn-
mittee to the returns upon the table, by which it appeared
that the value of the exports of cotton goods in the last year ex-
ceeded
the enormous stun of 30.000,0001. Yet, notwithstand-
ing.this, with the certainty that the English consume: could pur-
chase the articles so much cheaper at home than in any other i
market in the world, what would the Committee conceive was '
the amount of protecting duty. upon the importation of the fo-
reign manufacture ? No less than 75 per cent. ad va-
lorem upon one description of goods. Upon another it was
87/. 10s. ; and he certainly envied the sagacity of the man who
could thus calculate to a fraction the precise amount of duty
which would keep a foreign article out of the market.
Upon the lowest description of goods, the duty was 50 per
cent. Before he proceeded further, let him ask the Com-
mittee whether no ill effects were produced upon forAgn
States by the imposition of such duties. But they not only ap-
plied to foreign countries—we had at this moment under our
protection, a country the most productive in the article of cot-
ton of any country in the world, and where the Manufacture
of Cotton was the oldest Manufacture in existence, and against
that country, to which we exported annually many millions of
our own manufactured articles, this duty of 75 per cent. was
enforced against our own subjects, and who were compelled to
receive our manufactures without the payment of any duty
whatsoever. There was a small ad valorem duty upon the im-
portation of the raw material into this country, which he pro-
posed to reduce. And in order to satisfy the fears of saute
parties, and to keep up (unnecessarily as he thought) some idea
of prohibition, he meant to reduce all the duties to one of ten
per cent.; thus to allow India and all other parts of the world
to import their goods upon the payment of ten per cent. on im-
portation. lie should now proceed to one of the next great
staples of this country—Woollen. This was a manufacture
which more than any other had been nursed, and fostered, and
dandled by the Legislature, and indeed appeared to have been
the favourite child of Legislation. Like many other favourite
children, it had received more injury than benefit from its addi-
tional petting, and failed to thrive whilst its younger brother,
Cotton, being more left to itself had made more rapid strides,
anti grown up with a tar more vigorous constitution., He
would not trouble. the Committee with going into all the laws
which had been passed for centuries back relating to the ma-
nufacture of woollen. Some of them provided for the mode in
which the sheep should be chilled, some described how the
wool should be packed, and others pointed out the time
and manner in which it should be transported from one
place to another. All these were attended with penalties
which tended only to the vexation of the subject, and, as Ire
believed, to the injury of the general manufacture and trade
in the article. The duty on woollens imported from foreign
countries was 50 per cent. upon the value. The Committee
would be aware that we were ourselves great exporters of
Woollen goods, and that our articles found their way into fo-
reign markets to a large extent. Under these circutustanceis
he was not afraid to reduce the duty from 50 to 15. He would
here beg the attention of the Committee while he stated, from
official returns, what was the condition of the cotton and wool.
len manufacturers in the year 1765, and what it is at the present
time: showing the comparative progress which the two had
made. First, He would state the imports of the raw material
In 1765 the •ofwool • ted was
it was 30,
, quantity cotton impor
1825, the
, weight. In the year ending the sth of - janusrl%
u of all the
' quantity was 150,000,000 lbs. In 176.5, the
cotton goods exported from this country
.W%a'
3,359,090 lbs.
11325, •
was 23,858,000
imported was 1,796,000 lbs. weight, in 1825,
oods. in. 1765, was
creased to 1,050,(009'17.91.
psiolkundhae
lbs. The value of the exports in woollen
5,159,000/. in 1825, 6,926,000/. If he viele.6s,
tgon to the article of
the number of
Wfoeuignidi t aolfso silka lianrignnerticd rlevansse. In
tiler with t improve-
increased means which it possessed, toge • -
1 the aggregategrowth
of
setnea woolt sdi nionfatkgheriis.
keeping
itolnt:t rpteraymc.ei:tei influenced
the - .
atm. Icrlnaesee
inits,thexospeorotis.
notwithstanding great additional
he
in
consumption of the manufactutrilV
Ini fie
increase
et:01
left
lq(
(uuwar
in)
50h00ein,.: OpahOlaid/.
the
i wooln .
th
inlarnitiecnlesc

cotton goods, had only ddvanced, in the course of sixty years,
from 5,159,0001. to 6,926,0001. being a difference of no more
than 1,767,0001. It was impossible also not to notice the great
increase in the consumption of cotton goods in this country, an
increase which he would venture to say at the present mo-
ment surpassed the whole consumption of woollen goods
throughout the"country. This shelved how much the facilitat-
ing trade, and relieving it from the fetters of legislation, in-
creased the means of home consumption, and extended the
commerce of the nation. He would here notice what he left
out of his statement upon a former night, and that was the
constant evidence supplied by these inquiries, shewing how much
the wants of a people always increased with their means. It
was therefore by competition and rivalry with foreign ma-
nufactures, that they should increase the means of their own
country in the extension of its commerce, and consequently of
its wealth. He should next proceed to another great branch of
our manufactures—that of linen. The laws upon tide article
were also so numerous that he should not trouble the Commit-
tee with describing them, but confine himself to stating the
duties payable upon foreign articles manufactured of linen, and
which embraced almost every scale of the book.of rates. The
lowest was 40 per cent., and the highest amounted to some-
where about 180 per cent. upon the value. In order to sim-
plify these duties, he had conic to the determination after
frequently consulting the parties interested- in the matter,
of proposing that a duty of twenty-five per cent. should be
paid upon all articles of linen manufacture imported from
foreign countries And when he preserved this rate of duty,
Ice knew he was rather satisfying the fears of a particular clash
than the real necessity of the case. But he was anxious, on
many considerations, not to excite alarm in the minds of the
parties chiefly interested in this trade. The next article was
that of paper. Upon paper the duty paid upon importation
was three or four times its value, and•.necessarily acted as a
prohibition upon the importation of foreign books. He would
put it to the good sense of the Committee whether this restric..
tion ought not to be removed. He thought he should be doing
a service to the country, without injuring cur publisher, if he
permitted bound and unbound books to be admitted upon pay-
ing double the duty paid upon paper. [ln answer to a ques-
tion put across the table, the Right Hon. Gentleman said,
that copyright would still be protected by the prohibition of
books wherein • a copyright existed.] At present all books
were in fact prohibited ; and in removing the general restric-
tion, a proper protection should be given to authors. We un-
derstood the Right Hon. Gentleman then to say, that the duty
on paper of the kind upon which books were printed would be
threepence, and that upon bound books sixpence per pound.—
The next article was that of bottles. Ile believed that since
tie:eduction on wine made by his Right Honourable Friend,
the empty bottle paid half. as much duty as the precious li-
quor which it had contained. His intention was to fix the duty
somewhere about the price of bottles in this country, so as to
prevent injury to the bottle manufacturer. He should propose
that instead of eighteen shillings it should be reduced to three
shillings ; and the present price of bottles was somewhere
about three shillings and sixpence per dozen. Upon plate
glass and other articles of glass which came into domestic
use, lie should also propose a feduction, so as to bring the
• duty to 29 per cent. over and above the excise duty paid
here. To earthenware the same principles applied, and he should
deal with it in the same manner; reducing the present duty of
75 to somewhere about 12 or 15. Upon the higher classes of
this manufacture, such as porcelain, the foreign manufacturer
possessed certain advantages, and the duty upon these would
require to be higher; but at present they could only be brought
into this country by the smuggler, and he should propose such
a moderate duty as would bring the trade into its
.proper chan-
nel, and make it beneficial to the Exchequer. .There were
various other articles such as turnery, and fancy work,
upon which he thought a general duty of 30 per cent. should
be paid. Having now gone through the prohibitions relating
to the great branches of our staple manufactures, he should
proceed to tile consideration of another scarcely less important
class—namely those upon metallic substances. In his Right
Hon. Friend's Financial Statement for the year, the announce-
ment of an intention to reduce the duties on iron was received
with great satisfaction by the House. 'File intended reduction
of-that duty was from 61. 10s. to 31. 10s., and it was one which
lie thought would be highly beneficial to the country. Ile re.
collected that when his Right Hon. Friend made his state-
ment, an Hon. Member, verylar4ely connected with that trade,
very disinterestedly declared his opinion that the reduction
would be highly advantageous to the manufacturer, and to
the consumer, Whilst the injury done to the iron-masters would
not be so great as to prevent the House from adopting the
• measure. But since the Honourable Alderman (Mr. Alder-
man Thompson) made that declaration so greatly to his credit,
he (11r. II.) must in candour state to the Committee that he
had seen many other iron-masters who professed to have very
different opinions. These Gentlemen were like all the others
whom he was constantly in the habit of meeting upon these
subjects. They were most anxious to have a free trade in
every other description of article but that which they pro-
duced—(A laugh)—and upon that a strict prohibition was
indispensable. He could scarcely hope to satisfy these iron-'
masters; but as he knew he should be giving additional facilis
ties of the manufacturer, and increase the comforts of a whole
people, lie should feel it his duty to persevere. To his per-
sonal knowledge the manufacturers of Birmingham were in 1
possession of orders from the United States and from South
America, which, owing to the exorbitant price of British iron,
they were unable to execute. In consequence of this they
now had workmen employed in making models to be sent
to Germany where the orders were transferred because they
could not obtain them in this country. He believed that in
point of revenue so far from these reductions being an injury,
they would prove an advantage, Ile was sure the-manufac-
turer at least would find it a great advantage. The iron from
being smelted with coal in this country was inferior to foreign
iron, and particularly to that of Sweden ; but in consequence
of the high price, the manufacturers had been obliged to use
the inferior article, and thereby deteriorated their manufac-
tures. Iron was an article of general use in all departments
of life, and it was highly important that it should be placed
within reach, and that the quality should be preserved. In
shipping it came into large consumption, and the best article
was required. For the cables of ships it was highly necessary
that this should be attended to, as the safety of the ship
often depended upon 'it: The next of the metallic substances
was that of copper. The duty upon the importation of foreign
copper was not less than 54/. per ton ; a rate far beyond what
was necessary to protect the interests of those whose property
was embarked in producing the article in this country. Upon
the best information which he could obtain, he was led to be-
lieve that he should do a material service to copper-manufac-
turers by a reduction of the duty from 54/. to 27/. per ton ; nor
should he hesitate hereafter to propose a further reduction in the
duty. Another article called spelter, which entered largely
into metallic manufactures, particularly brass, the duty on
which was now 281. per ton. It was, however, selling in Ham_
burgh at present at 20/. per ton, so that, with the duty it cost
on importation into England, upwards of 501. per ton. How
could it be expected that under such a disadvantage our ma-
nufacturers could successfully compete with those of the Conti-
nent. They could not, and consequently, as an iron, we were
employed at present in making patterns for the German manu-
facturers. Upon this article he intended to reduce the duty one
half. Ile should be willing to proceed further, but objections
were made by persons who had invested capital in mines, which
they feared would he injured materially if a greater re-
duction took place. The duty on tin lie proposed to reduce
front Si. to 21. per hundred weight, that on slicker being
brought down from about 2111. to 141. ad valorem. He
had now stated the course which he designed to pursue with
respect to the principal duties which were considered a
protection to our manufactures. lint besides those in the
per cent. on importation, and if raw, a charge of
book of rates,vatsh,erief wrnearneumfacatny ureadr,ticolrespanrotitalclyonwnoecrkteedd,
tuippoan-
-2cloll.4iprcgehre cotehfnestro.e One would imagine that in the enumerated articles
every thing which really could create the jealousy or apprehen-
sion of this country was carefully noted down, but there Were
besides many others upon which this duty of 50/. per cent. was
levied. In illustration of this he might mention that a friend
of his, who was curious in antiquities, lately imported a
mummy into this country. Upon examining the article, the
customhouse-officers were extremely embarrassed to determine.
which class of non-enumerated goods it belonged to. A mass
of muscle, sinew, Scc„ which had been preserved for 3,000 years, ,
called be
uau
Laughter, and
anni adtcerriieasl
(a laugh),—and they, therefore, after much deliberation and ,
could,dout,
or fifty
ref titltlyi
elptilreiri
hot
icpsteoi
nfnr
friend
.oeeonnald,l
respectingnulaasrkmedanida
alue,
which he estimated at 400/., and accordingly he was charged
etr e
._ its(hav
ter.)—He stated the circumstanceg as one of many vexations.
which occurred under the existing system. He now proposed
of
to reduce the duty on those articles when manufactured, from
hear,2oo4
SO to 201. per cent., and when raw, from 20 to 10/. per cent.
The result of these reductions would,
he trusted, be to prevent
smuggling to a considerable for found,if
extent • he thatthe
duty imposed amounted to 30
per cent. the article would still
be smuggled, and whatever was remitted, be so much given up
to the emuggler.
He was, therefore, most anxious to co .ope-
rate with his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Lx-
chequer, in rooting out an illicit traffic, seriously detrimental
in every
regard to the country, for to continue the protection
now in force, was actually y'
to encourage smuggling. If any
Gentleman wished to the Coast,
now state of the let him
go to Brighton or Hastings, between those towns
or any place
and he had only to ask for china or other foreign articles,
and he would find individuals in'abundance ready to furnish
them from the Continent for 30 er cent. above their prime cost
at Paris, and in ten Itheorder given. Thus the
ays after
Legislature absolutely trained up a set of men to violate the
law—persons w. 1.1914 d all moral and sccial duties in contempt--
twh scarcelyai manufacture.
tsi el

who lived in a state of constant outlawry, and who as it had
been justly said, were a pestilence to the country. To eradicate
that apalling evil was one object of his present propositions.
Nor did he think that our principal manufacturers would be at
all effected by the measure, although he was certain that by it
the Revenue would be improved. To illustrate this, lie would
mention that now the whole country was inundated with what
were called French Cambrics, while the Exchequer, which
ought to derive a sum of 40 or 50,000/. per annum from them,
did not derive more than 4,oool.—and if persons in that trade
were asked how those cambrics were obtained, they frankly
declared that they were all smuggled. French Paper was
another article of the same sort, which for engravings and other
purposes of art, was sought after here—but respecting which,
our policy had been to compel the public to buy a bad, and at
the same time a dear commodity, instead of a good and cheap
one.: In.short the system had all the features of a monopoly,
and subjected the trade in those excluded goods to the evils
which never failed to follow a limitation in the supply of any
species of produce. The consequence of that /imitation was an
incessant fluctuation, not only in the quantity of produce, but in
its price and great inconvenience. both to the dealer and to the
Consumer. The reduction, therefore, he proposed would be no
injury to this country. He did not deny, however, but that
some foreign goods would enter England, in consequence of the
change in the duties; but if so, the nation would be benefited
by it, and also our manufacturers. He did not stand on ge-
neral principles only in taking this position ; but might add.
something of experience to guide him. In 1786, a treaty of
I commerce was negociated between this country and France.--
By that treaty. French cotton goods were to be admitted here
on paying a duty of 12 per cent. Glass was also to pay 12,
and some so low as 10 per cent., while none have to pay more
than 15 per cent. What was the consequence, that we sent a
great proportion of our manufactures to France in return, and
increased our commerce considerably: But in another respect
we benefitted by that treaty. French woollens were then in
great esteem, in short French cloth was the fashion. The re-
suit was, that our woollen manufactures so improved, that it ex-
celled the manufactures of France. In like manner, he trusted,
thatalthough fora time the muslins of India and the calicos of
Switzerland, the one from their texture, and the other from the
brightness of their colours, might find admission for the gratin-
, cation of particular tastes; yet as related to the millions, the
effect would be to serve our own interests materially. That
was strongly illustrated by what had recently taken place in the
silk manufacture. Before the alteration in the silk du-
ties last year the trade had made no advances, but what was
the fact now ? that we sent articles down to the coast of Sussex
to be smuggled into France. We should no doubt be told
that things had been changed, and that nations were noW
recovering from the ravages of a long and _sanguinary alit..
But while those ravages destroyed the temporary prosperity
of other countries they also destroyed their capital. Here
however, capital remained untouched, and, what he still more
relied on, the inventive mind of man. In capital, in inge-
nuity, in that energy of enterprize which distinguished the
English character, we stood pre-eminent ; nor was he afraid
so long as we retained those properties to bid defiance to the
world. Another objection perhaps would be, that the treaty
of 17116 insured us a reciprocity. of advantage. Upon that sub-
ject he had before stated his opinion to the House, in which he
was borne out by a Gentleman, some time ago a Member of the
House, and whose absence from it now lie most sincerely re-
gretted. He alluded to Mr. Finley, who had represented
Glasgow a short time back ; and he should be much favoured if
the Committee would allow him to read a part of a letter which
he had received from Mr. Finlay, on the subject of reciprocity-
The Right Hon. Gentleman proceeded to read the letter, which
was dated 18th of February last. It stated " that subscribing
as Mr. Finlay did to all that Mr. Huskisson had stated to him,
he conceived his measures would meet with some opposition
from the manufacturing interest. They would contend that
reciprocal 'advantages' ought to be obtained. But we were
bound to benefit ourselves independent of other na:ions. Why
then withhold a liberal policy from other States not so amen
advanced as we were—not so much alive to their own interests,,
or so able to carry a wise system into effect." The last words
of this letter contained a justification of the policy he wished
to encourage. By setting an example to other countries wein-
duced them to adopt our line of conduct, and while we serve'
ourselves, led them also to confer further benefits on us after-
wards. His Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Excite-
quer had already submitted to the House a plan for the re-
duction of taxes to a considerable amount, and lie trusted 11t'
would long continue to come down' with propositions equal!! -
gratifying to the public. He trusted, too, that great as those
redactions might be, the Exchequer would still flow to the
same level, and that we should at once deliver ourselves,
open the eyes of other nations to the wisdom of a free policy a
If some of them now coesidered the course we followed a' a
lure to lead them aetra.y from their interest, and as we thre,e
off the restraints which impeded our prosperity—and Or%
them off, lie trusted for ever—eagerly took up tint exploae
system ; lie trusted, when they saw that we preserved ono
flourished by our perseverance in a right track that they wllzad
not long hesitate to alter their plan, and proceed, as we
done, to pare down their prohibitory duties. having
_„
stated the alterations which lie proposed, in what were te,rl:l4
ed the protecting duties, 'lie should next consider, with a %,..,
to countervail the effect on our own manufactures,
duties on raw materials it would be expedient to reduce.a
Some years ago a duty was laid on articles of dye, whirT
though not very heavy, was still a clog on our manufacture''
for an addition of 1 or 2 per cent. upon the price of conin!°,,
tildes, was severely felt in trading with other countries.
therefore, proposed to make a considerable reduction in thteiie
duties. Ile should not weary the House by going over ilea
several items, but as oil was largely employed in the W04".1.0
manufacture, and as the duty on it had been raised during
al ce•
last war, he proposed to lower them beyond their ferTc.a.
amount, and leave our manufecturee better than those of eitiefi
countries. There was also another oil, called rape oil. ?I 'ber
during the late agricultural distress, the Honourable llerne,a
for Essex (Mr. Western). succeeded in having it taxed c0",o,
derably, and also foreign flax-seed. The consequence ed
that the manufacture of rape oil and rape cake was destro.l4,,
in this country, -and we were placed in a singular pretwaii
ment. We imported the oil at a high duty, but I.o6t.nae
the advantages of manufacturing it at home. He now intt
ed to reduce the duty to the old standard, and to all, bot' to
and cake, to be made here. He should also recommenderD
reduce the duty on
hearcose foreign wool. It was one penrl,loo
pound, for which proposed to substitute 4d. per pooled
all wool under a shilling a pound, for it was only in low Pratis
woollens that we dread the competition of foreigners. Ile, eie
aware that in those propositions he was travelling out °..',crel
own course, and straying into that of his Right Hon. r:eaf
the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He hoped, however, ltee..
he would pardon him as ari humble fellow labourer in the sa iret
vineyard, if he endeavoured t 3 clear.-away some of the r°
wood which encumbered his success, and enabled him t° re'
toin more abundant fruits from a system which tended tooopl
hove the public from its burdens at no distant time. He
ace,
now advert to the last three heads, the Shipping, Con tl'
and Navigation of the country, on which he proposed ttavi,
dress the Committee. With respect to the Shipping and N
eedgation interests, the Bill which had been already introt.o;`,,e,
for amending the Quarantine Laws, would operate most U;ere
hcially. The duties upon ships performing quarantineaoi•
very heavy and productive of increased delay ; and the ~.,e0
mittee of Foreign Trade had acted wisely in relieving the Iffelir.
from the expence thus incurred, and transferring it to the plot,
Another measure which had been introduced on illondeY
for abolishing the fees on our commerce to the Coloniesli re; I
adopted on the same- principle. A third measure, whi,c eat',
ni3ined, he should now submit to the. Committee, lie ree
the duties on the transfer of .property in ships, whet-0 tv,
shares or embracing the whole. That duty was an
.excepaYe
the general principle on which similar stamp duties were
posed—for the registry of the ship took' place for the Yee t;',
of the public, and die indiViduals immediately concern
...o,i
the transaction were saddled with the charge. Two yenr'aejeo,
he had introduced a Bill to simplify the laws on. the s'oaert,
but still it was unfair that one species of chattel Pro µk"
should be burdened with a stamp duty, to which no other i‘e
on transfer, liable. He should therefore relieve persons tretel,
chasing parts, or the whole of ships, from all duty on the.i.laelh
fer. Bonds were now also required, under the name of ialii
tures, binding persons to deliver goods at the places for app'„
they were entered at the Custom House, and this also W? sett?'.o
vision solely for the benefit of the public. A t present 11 jefe,
times happened. that several persons joined in one bond !°,00'4
the duty, but the practice was attended with much !_n,,
nience ; and he should therefore propose to reduce
from 40s. to 4s. on each bond. The same principle ale fOof
drawbacks; and he would accordingly place them on t fee,'
footing. Another indirect tax on commerce was the arra
the Consular Establishment, a subject to which the Iloteael'ec
ber for Aberdeen had before called the attention of Par.l4 sePle,
Those fees were now imposed on no settled principle. :10pg'ire
places they were levied on the on
;in others on the qa
others on documents, in others on tonnage. Evell
countries the emoluments of the Consuls were paid a•Woe'ie
In Antwerp a certain salary was paid—in Rotterdam islov/011,
Bourdeaux a salary was paid—in Marseilles none. to,tv
owed to all our subjects a like protection, and it seeni, Pro,
as unfair to make our merchants pay our Ccarial Cia')„W
make travellers support our Ministers at Foreign
ed Poe
—lt was but reasonable to pay the Consuls ti"weistae'
i
ries. The House was aware that in the Civil, n
sots, en
called the third class, the sum for Foreign Cella 1
limited to 40,000/. per annum, and lie should, to eaTlitleel:
rangement into effect, bring in a Bill, authorising the
to grant the difference between that 40,0001. tin!' st' ats
expence of the Consular Establishment. He certain ti
still allow small and moderate fees to be taken, 101c' fo'
vial fees, but those would not exceed two dollars,

Est be not more than one dollar. By this means all Con-
-113 would be placed on one footing, and, excepting a small
umwhich might be obtained by subscription for burial
!laces, houses of worship, and similar purposes, British mer-
Oants would be exonerated at foreign ports, from all charges.
should any difficulty, however,. be experienced in raising a
ta,fficient amount for those objects, the House, he trusted,
night be expected to giveeits aid, by granting one half the
'am subscribed nrovided that were necessary, to pay the
eipeed , •
ot the Clergyman, and otherwise, promote the ends
view. . In Brazil, the change would produce a material
enefit• Connected with the Consular Establishment, was the
by of the Levant trade. The Levant Company, established
"Y charter in the rein of James I. was allowed to appoint
11 b Can su sin that quarter, and to levy dues to pay them. He
..edeeed
he might say, that far two centuries past, that Com-
PanY had discharged these duties with as much fidelity and
Pfuti management as possible. But still in a commercial point
ill view, he thought the system ought to be new modelled—and
...•4 Political point of view, it also seemed to him, that the ap-
revnament of Consuls should rest with the Crown. In times of
Ll3til War many complaints were necessarily preferred by inte-
'Ai parties against Consuls, and it was only right that the
leea,n, of explanation as well as of controul should be confided to
toet`3overnutent. With respect to the dues levied they amounted
or 2 per cent. on Merchandize, and that in foreign countries
considerable subtraction from the profits. When this subs
was brought under the notice of the Noble Lord at the
head of the Treasury (the Earl of Liverpool), who at all times
evilleed the liveliest desire to promote the trade and commerce
„'le nation, and who in a remarkable degree 'combined the
entered full
of a statesman with the wisdom of a philosopher, he
,ttered fully into all its bearings. The Noble Lord then ap-
',14:.(1 to the Company, and when they assented to relinquish
,14.1* privileges, he informed them that his Majesty would be
"tmed to accept the tender, but that it would also be neces-
p4:3' to bring in a Bill to terminate the existance of the Corn-
and transfer its funds to the Government. When Gen-
bTea considered the vast importance of the new trade which
te opened to us in Egypt, they would perceive the value and
t° benefit
hecessity of this aleration—and how much it was calculated
~eep,enefit our shipping and commercial interests. He was
,TY ashamed for having led the committee over so extensive
ceici• He was anxious, however, before the recess, to lay
ti")re the House and the public, .the whole of his plans,
v at (luring the recess they might be fully considered and can-
. Lased by all the interests whom they concerned. If objections
f"ere found. to any part of them he should be happy to be in-
enned on the subject, and to give every satisfaction in his
if)ower, only requiring of the House and the country to hold
aa'et,.e__l'Y the principle on which he proceeded, and which was
Jecßett by sound policy. By that means they would prove,
°re the end of the Session, to the country and the world,
thatfrom
the House had been governed by the spirit of the Address
TM), the throne, at its commencement, which recommended
~te removal of the restraints and restrictions under which the
(isnunerce of the empire previously laboured. The Right Hon.
sremleman, who was frequently applauded in the course of his
sat down amidst much cheering, by moving his first
esolution.
• Mr. Alderman THOMPSON, while he approved of the
it°utse of policy pointed out by the Hon. Gentleman, expected
ee'venia excite seine alarm among the manufacturers of the
41.'ry• The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded tot defend him-
L from the imputations which had been cast on him, because
it;expressed his approbation of the reduction of the duty on
h*reign iron recently recommended by the Chancellor of the
aitchequer, and took that opportunity that he had previously
ii" no communication whatever on the subject with the Right
Gentleman.—(llear, hear !)—As he bad supported Mini-
itcra in all their measures which aimed at a free trade, he thought
tee Would be base if he had turned round on them whom the sys-
ITlvas applied to a subject in which he was interested.
et, r. HUSSEY VIVIAN thought the reduction of the duty
corti°reign copper was likely to affect seriously the mines of
ee, . The whole of the capital now employed in these
7c7s amounted to about 2,400,0001., which gave employment
or
the aO,OOO men. He had spoken to the proprietors of two
tee: richest mines, and they said that they could not work
irk
Ai unless the price of copper was 751. per ton. .Now copper.
ee a.y.erica was only 451. per ton, to which the proposed duty
niche
ist if' added, would raise it to about the price at which our
peet,r mines only could be continued open. The effect then on
thtea, Tines would be to shut them up entirely, and should any
v'llaV,lnalierwards obstruct the intercourse with South America,
theip,\V be the consequence at home?
'THFW W. RIDLEY said that lie acquiesced in
tietriaril'l.cii)les just' now recommended by the Right Hon. Gen-
t° soole' branches
anxious to draw the protection ot. the Committee
"ere end of our trade which, by late circumstances,
allud angered, at least in his estimation.—fie particularly
(lent Mention the duties on glass wine bottles. He thought suffi-
a3
the had not been shewn to the glass manufacturers,
them. enormous duty on kelp was exceedingly injurious to
tier• r.;l:he kel that came from Scotland was of a very infe-
ma4l"b"t•Y ; lie Was afraid he should give offence to a great
truth ; haying, but his duty compelled him to speak. the
Newer,. a matter of constant complaint amongst the glass-
er.e Was one part of the Right Hon. Gentleman's
measure for w.hich he returned him much thanks, viz. the repeal
of
aihetuties on the transferring shares in ships.—(Hear! )—He
sure that this would be hailed by the shiping interest as the
removal of one of the chief obstacles to marine traffic.
31r.. BA RING said, that much as he approved of the mea-
sures. introduced the other night by the it ight Hon. the Prest-
(ilie_nt of the Board of Trade, he yet thought that those which
I,e__ll9d reserved for this night's discussion were even more
beneficial than their predecessors ; their chief recornmenda-
ct7 'was, that they did not touch on particular interests, but
21.1 r advantages were to be generally diffused. He could
1t?! coincide in the statement of the Gallant Officer opposite
they
• Vivian), that enough had not been clone to protect
ttie copper-mines of this country ; there had been a yeduc-
, 211 of the duties from fifty-fuur to twenty-seven, which was
Y one-half, whereas in iron the reduction had been to the
extent of three quarters ; and when it was recollected that
copper was the metal chiefly used in steam-engines, of which,
e "°", the use was almost universal, he did not think the
sariplaint of the Gallant Officer !howd There was,
lie would admit, some difficulty as to the question of the
orn Laws was to be met ; he wished to see that degree of
not think
which might be agreeable to all parties, but he did.
think. that it would be safe to reduce the protecting price be-
,Y,onti the rate of the old Corn Laws. He would not admit that
"le, price of labour was always to be regarded as conclusive
evidence ; Ireland was an instance to the contrary; but he
'rusted shortly that the anarchy and confusion which had so
~Ontt reigned there would he put an end to, and that she would
false notion
remain as an illustration of his position. It was a
Holland
notion that capital would always subdue competition, and
olland and Germany would soon give us proofs that it was
lot well founded. With regard to the new experiments
advised
the Right Gentleman Honourable was then making, he
him rot to go on too fast. He had tried it at first
with the silk trade, but it there had not had time to operate,
;a the foreign silks had not yet come to market, so that it was
tet too early to adopt that experiment as a criterion, and
tt° go to work in the same manner with the whole mass of our
ePle• • But he hoped that our liberal policy would be recipro-
-4Y met with rance. He admired what the Hon. Gentleman
lad done tile Levant Company; but still there was another
Company more mischievous than that which he had left intail
e meant the Russia Company. They claimed all the im-
asnneities which had been granted to the Levant Company, such
e the appointtnent of Consuls, &c. and the effects of that Corn-
FranY., were even more than the other, as they frequently led to
esasuu„and perjury, by suffering no one to trade with Russia un-
sten"teY were members of the Company, which in many in-
es was not the case. Another important benefit which the
coft ta Hon. Gentleman contemplated was the regulation of
taants, though lie did not see how an arrangement could be
e to equalize them, as proposed by the Right Honourable
entlemae. .
holes: HUSKISSON—I only spoke with regard to their Sa-
Alr. DA
sem.; RING—As the subject was to form the matter of a
(TWe'rtie Bill, lie would say nothing further on the question.—
th "°n• Member spoke so low as to be nearly inaudible in
ei,.gia..lle,ry the greater part of the time.)
sin's • LRIPPS was afraid, that if the duties on the imorta-
Cejlf books were repealed, it would be impossible for the
atitTiLlsell publisher to compete with the French one; though lie
detai"t d, that where the public advantage required it, indivi-
el. cot ncessions ought to be made ; yet he thought that we
'" Alit I
the principle too far.
wasiri;eLITTI•ETON said, that the Right Hon. Gentleman
by those who supported particular interests,—there
weao_stsh.eseGtallant Officer (Sir Hussey Vivian) appearing -for the
will'
it: miners, the Hon. Member ft Newcastle for the colliers,
Was
the greatest sufferer, as the reduction was very large ; and
that
•Ith regard to earenware and china lie did not conser
tne British trade in those articles would stand competition
With the
French and German, if it were not for high protecting
He spoke more particularly with regard to ornamental
I , as the clay abroad was much finer, and the figure-
consPalf cheaper ; and a duty on them of, 25 per cent. lie idered
Malni,uefa_sct_urea.r too low, as it afforded no protection to our
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would only
"Y one word with the view of diminishing the alarm that
seemed t
call the' o pervade mong many lion. Members. lie must
their attention toga matter which they had all appeared to
loge
sight of,
viz.—that the greater part of the duties which the
non of of the internal trade of the country, but were the effects of
afocueindaen_t_al circumstances ; as, during the period that it was
accessary to raise money by loans to carry on the cur-

'rent expences of the country, those duties were then imposed
from time to time as temporary percentages to such an extent,
as to render the articles on which they were set almost prohi-

bitory. v What he was then stating applied particularly to
copper—it was proposed now to reduce the duty on copper
to what it was in 1808 nobody at that time complained that
the copper mines in this country were not worth working.—
We heard nothing then of the depression of copper manufacto-
ries. He did not think that the copper mines would he at all de-
__

teriorated by the present reduction of duty. On the contrary,
the demands for the article, in his opinion, would increase. He

was disposed to listen to any argument that might be adduced
against the measures of his Right lion. Friend, but unless the
objections were founded on broad and liberal Principles, he
hoped that his Right Hon. Friend would meet with the support
of the House.—(Hear ! )
Mr. TREMAYNE said, that the duties on copper had in-
creased gradually, and therefore he objected to the precipitate
reduction that had been proposed. He hoped that a protecting
price would still be preserved, for if the mines of Cornwall were
to attempt to compete with those of South America, they must
succeed. It would no longer be a question of revenue but of
existence, as their best artificers were withdrawn to work
the mines in South America. He did not object to the princi-
ple on which time Government was acting, but he advised it to

proceed with caution.
Mr. T. WILSON observed that he was an old fashioned
merchant, and did not like the deviations that were about to be
attempted ; he however would advise that if the altered system
were to be adhered to, the Government should frame a scale of
duties in such a manner so that they might be tried before they

were permanently adopted.
Mr. GIPPS thought the measure of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man proposed to reduce the duty on woollens lower than the
security of our trade warranted. We were not,- he was sure,
yet able to compete with the foreign woollens. At 20 per cent.
there would be a considerable importation of woollens, but at
15 per cent. he was convinced the importation would be to a

dangerous extent.
Mr. LINDSAY said he had some apprehensions to express
with reference to the Linen Trade of Scotland.—(A laugh.)—
He assured the Right Hon. Gentleman that considerable alarm
would be telt in Scotland at the proposed reduction.
Sir R. FERGUSON reminded the Right Hon. Gentleman
that the Scotch Linen Manufacturers had much to fear from

the competition of the Germans. if the duty on hemp was re-
duced they would be able to undersell the Germans in their

own markets.
Sir H. PARNELL said he had no fears whatever for the
Linen Trade of Ireland. The growth of Wool, he thought,
ought to be encouraged in that country, especially if they
made any alteration in the corn laws, so as to ailect the landed

interest.
Mr. C. GRANT observed, that in the discussions which had
taken place, the consideration of foreigners had been left en-
tirely out of the question. It was the opinion of foreign
nations that we had attained all our greatness through the re-
strictive system, and it was thought thai we were not sincere.
—The sooner, therefore, that they found means to convince
them of their sincerity the better; but above all, it behoved
them not to stop. The question was equally interesting to the
consumer and producer how long the restrictive system should
be continued. They had seen the successful result of a more
liberal system in the case of the silk trade. All those who had
anticipated ruin, now found themselves in full employment.—
With respect to.Barilla, the duty had been imposed, not upon
the restrictive principle, but upon a principle of humanity, in
favour of the collectors of kelp. Ile agreed with those Hon.
Members who thought the Corn Laws ought to be altered.—
He confessed he did not see how, in consistency and common
sense, they could continue a system of protective Corn Laws.
He hoped they would see some change in this respect effected,
before many years.
Mr. ROBERTSON felt very sensibly the concessions which
had been made to the general commerce of the country. If the
duties were properly reduced, he was convinced the cottons and
linens of this country might be spread over the, whole of South
America.
Sir RICHARD VIVIAN thought it would be useless to
raise copper unless they could obtain for it 1001. per ton. If
the duties were taken off no such price could be got, and then
the miners would be reduced The extent of the mischief to
Cornwall might be judged by the reflection that there was a
population of 70,000 miners in that county. lie was sorry to
hear the threats of the !tight Hon. Gentleman as regarded an
augmentation of the duty upon copper.
Mr. HUSKISSON denied having held out any threat upon
the subject. He had merely stated, that if the duty upon cop-
per were to prove a prohibitory duty, he would consider the
propriety of reducing it. He had no idea of making any fur-
ther reduction of the duty until it should appear to be so ex-
travagantly high as to prevent the. admission of the foreign
article. With respect to the objection made to the reduction
of duty upon foreign books, he be ;•ed to say that it would
not at all affect the rights of authorship. The law would still
remain the same, and this reduction would only affect books
generally in their passage here.
Mr. SYKES expressed his satisfaction at the intimation
which hid come out in the course of the discussion that some
change was likely to be made in the Corn Laws.
Mr. EVANS concurred in the sentiments of the Right Hon.
President of the Board of Controul on the subject of the Iron
Trade.
Mr. J. BENETT said he hoped no alteration would be
made in the Corn Laws before te general discussion upon the
subject took place in that House,
Mr. HUME wished to know whether a reduction of timber
duties was contemplated. With reference to the intentions of the
Right Hon. Gentleman as to the duties on French gloves, and
articles of that kind, noon which he placed a duty of 30 per
cent, he was confident that these articies could be insured a
safe delivery for 20 per cent. If this were so, the duty would
• evidently tend to an increase of smuggling. He had heard with
ismer satisfaction what had been stated with reference to the
Corn Laws. Nothing, he was sure, Auld so much benefit the
country as any change in these laws.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, it was not his intention to make
any observation upon the subject last alluded to by the Ho-
, nourable Member. With regard to the wool, he was satisfied
that at the present rate of duty, yarns to a considerable amount
go out of the country. Next, as to old iron, the alteration in
the duty upon that article was made merely to equalize it with
the duty on other iron, with a view to the prevention of unfair
dealing with the Revenue. On the subject of timber, he was
surprised at the question of the lion. Member for Aberdeen.
The timber trade was carried on entirely in British ships, and
nothing could be more valuable to the country. There was no
one article in which so great an increase of trade had taken place
as the Baltic timber.
The resolutions were then Fit and agreed to.
Mr. H ME wished them to be reported forthwith, but Mr.
HUSKISSON stated that there was an objection to that in the
case of resolutions affecting the Revenue. It was his intention
that the new and old duties should appear before the public in
separate columns.
The House then resumed, and the report was ordered to be
received on Monday.
DISSENTERS' MARRIAGES BILL.
Mr. W. SMITH moved the second reading of the Dissenters'
Marriage Bill. He spoke on behalf of the Unitarian Dissenters,
who could not assent to some passages in the Marriage Service
of the Church of England. He at one time had proposed to
leave out the objectionable passages; that, however, had been
strongly objected to, and had caused the loss of a former Bill.
When the Dissenters brought their case before the other House
of Parliament, the reasonableness of their scruples had not only
been conceded, but assisted by the venerable Prelate at the head
of the Church. The Dissenters, therefore, hoped that the Bill
would be allowed to pass ; at the same time they were not so
wedded to it as not to assent to any alterations that might be
made consistently with their conscientious scruples.—He should
trespass no longer on the House, but move the second reading
of the Bill.
Mr. ROBERTSON opposed the motion, as he considered
the Church of England as essential to the throne, and the pre-
sent bill had a direct tendency to shake that venerable fabric.—
If scruples of. Conscience were to be admitted in one case, they
must be in every other. The Presbyterians of Scotland had no
objection to the marriage ceremony of the Church of England:
The Unitarians were no Christians, and might more properly
be denominated. Mahometans.—(Laughter.)—Nor should the
feelings of Sectarians be consulted, to the injury of the Church
of England. This measure was very different from toleration,
to which he had no objection, for there was nothing intolerant in
his disposition.—(Hear! and laughter.)—He must oppose the
Bill in the strongest manner.
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that the present measure was
not wrested from, but conceded by, the. Church, as due to the
conscientious scruples of the Unitarian Dissenters. The Pre-
lates of the Church held that the conduct of the individual must
be regulated by his own conscience, and thoseprinciples had long
been held by the Church. In 1732 the Prelates of the Irish
Church had avowed a similar doctrine, and had signed a Protest
to that effect in the Peers: The only remedy for the scruples of the
Dissenters was either by a Bill of this nature, or by an alteration
in the Liturgy. To the latter mode there was the strongest ob-
jections, anti the other mode only remained. He did not think
that the indulgence should be confined to the Unitarian Dis-
celebrating the marriage of
Dis-
senters. The present mode of
Dissenters,•was any thing but to the honour of the Church. In
many cases, the parties had, in the teeth of the clergyman, pro-
tested against the ceremony, and declared it was by compulsion
alone they complied. Though lie approved of the principal of
the Bill, he did not mean to pledge himself to all its details.
Care must be taken to prevent clandestine marriages, and not
-to offend the clergy of the Church of England. On that ac-
count he was very doubtful as to granting to Dissenters the
might open a door to clan,
liberty of marrying by licence, as it