The Sun.
London, England, 1809-03-04 00:00:00

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adipose Ice. li bich :Geiierat ChA/eri rig 44
pear,A at the Bar Of.the Hodge. lie was hot 'perliao
aware that anydoeltrbents riould be'produted against'
him. 14,.. would- tako.it for granted,'that • if, on' the.
'light of Gen, Clavering"s prevarication, 'those docut.
flit nts could be Int•li- the House would feel 'DC) hesi-
. . ,
op:
, - ration in adapting the steps proposed by the'prefient
mOtion. , lii . answer us observatiohs'froin the Right
li'm.oentietuan Opposite he would say, that 'the
general testimony could not. be atfected by .thisLpro
..,'. , reeding. If it7.were .so, he mould ask; why Was it
thought fit to commit Sanden, and bring. him, 'from'
- imprisonment to answer questions at the bar ? Upon
the whote, he' considered the present ,motion well
founded; :and :though he. felt, that to dismiss it
. NV011!(1 be impioper, he had no objeCtion that it should
. , 1,:.: adjourned. provided-it . were not to be a distant
day, He irwted his Hon. Friend would not with.,
di aw his motion. •
'the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
lie, had 130, objection ,ro this; what he was averse to
• ,was the-present dicussion. • .
Mr. WILLIAM' WYNNE observed, if it was-the
general sense of the House, that the matter would
`be better discussed on a future day, he was willing
to acquiesce. He was confident, that in bringiog
. forwaid the subject he had discharged his duty, and
WAS perfectly c000:ut. He therefore would adjourn
its consideration to this di), se'nnight.
.•
M. WILBERFOUCE objected to the period-of- ad-,
_ ,journavent, ou the ground of its too great proximity
• to the day. appointed for the discusion of the great
qtlestion. He remarked, that a farther prorogation
' would be ad, isable so far, as that the investigation
this night proposed would not in that great ph siion
brIV.; a !teeing either on one sittwor the other,which
it was evident it must have, from b,Ptug in this man-
tter,contOunded. with it. The present case should be
. ' treated exclus,vely, and have an_ exclusive day set
-.410de for fMpartial ju,'!gment on it. • Gentlemen
. totdd come bun its consideration with far Mole (.01-
'4lO t"inds, with more deliberation, and less pre-
judice than they would in' twenty-four hou &atter
the discussion of the oilier leading case.• Meanwhile
it, would be poisible to keeoo miqd. any • proceed-
t lOgs which may
.be thought necessary to adopt
against other witnesses...,;,He would put the question
• s -to any Hon: Member, whether it IA ould not cairy
More the air of impartiality towards, Gee. Clavering
' than of' dignity to the House, and what was of still
. greater moment, whether it would nbtAie.more cor-
respondent to the, ends of justice and. of truth, to
It'W the investigatiou conducted fairlY-aod without
.bias: this could not pos,ibly happen where there
has a reference to any otheh decision. In conse.
~ ~..
• , ~
I.
~
e Ice pf these- coosiderationS, he would Move,
.11t3
tat the Inquiry be further postponed to Tuesday
4416'1)1110.
' The original question, with Mr. Wilberforce's
.oanoetultnetit, was then put and citified.' 1
' ' s.', iVIr, WillTakyD row to give notice, that in place
~t3f ijj.s motion to rescind the Ostlers in Council, he
.. - 144 'Made up his mind to move an Address to Lois
. , Majesty, fur the adoption of conciliatory measures
tossards Anierici. .
tntimANcE ESTIMATES. •' —•.-
•.
• - :, 04 the motion of Mr. ASHLEY CoorEft, the
ty
4lot*e resolved itself into a Committee of Supply,
.sodithe Miscellaneous Services were referred, to it.;
F' '
pi I\ll ASHLEY cuoPER INQUeeJed to state, thatlbe
1144 sum in order on the list was
.200,0001. for tbc,
Navy Debt,. u% Ink h at the close of the seat 1806,
.., amounted to 7 (io
,(4)1,.; litlititi Alp I,.ma succeetlioK •
' ,',eaui, sua.nuot. asiire. The second • sum was .
'4 Atouf-' tor salt-pette, more, he would allow, • than was net_essary fro the actual consuoiption.--
But then it became 1
lecessary, in ostler that •we
may hate a srdieient quantity of gunpowder lying
in,s:tire, to answer any emergencies. 1, he next sum
kt;!I 200,.0001 f.r the purpose of providing a depot
'9f artillery and aintininition.,
Peculiar circuMstanco
had contributed
tojnatfly the necessity of keeping in
tort. a much larger proportion of those articles than
tv e had hitherto done. Such.ao increase was peces-
s
• :/:Y1 1191 only frOm considering that it may be re-
I',red for ourown internal detente, Nit that our
i 'lunaace may not exclusively be employed in the
!ervice of Great Britain alone; it may happen, as
io many former cases, that we should supply Eu-
rope. The Honourable Member closed his state- '
went by the sum of 123,0001. for the thiteoceol the
ben Coast of Ireland.
• The following sums were then Voted :
:-For del raying the expellee oft he Oidnauce at Great ,
~ britain . . . a 50,3661.
General TAELETON here rose. He would ask of
the Hon. Member what was the present state of qte
'PO's, and in what situation they had been in tor,
101n0 time back. He could not confine himself to
. 'This question alone ; he would go 'farther, and en.
quire into the military operations of the last cam-
PtUgn, As it was the privilege, so it was the lioun-
:. •detS duty of every Member in that House, to-make ,
' laelS enquires. ~ He would, however, confine him-
self, 'to the Military enterprises of the last twelve,
rounihs. If the Right Hon. Secretary at Warcould
give any satistaCtory 'reasons wiiy a regiment should
be absalUfely thcoWts,itWify, he wo v. ling to hear
him. That this was the-ease in the disposition of
the 21st and 17th -regiments of light dragoons he
. ~
. iloniended. Toe for Mer regiment, previous to ibeir
11431 embarkation .for India, were sent to the Cape .
.as a
,preparat ion for India Seri/ice. The litter corps,
'Without any preparation, Were hurried forward' to
..
litkiiit ; and yet the former was entirely, Made up of
rnhttst and •etficient.-youngmen, whereas the latter
a
ES
n, butly of old men, and consequently stood mom
Inneed of this preparatory system. Thus was a
effective corps left behind at the Cape,: for no
,r Motive that he could discern, but to guard it
iis4lhat the .Hottentots. He could not help olention
big this preposterous disposition. The Honourable
Member would next ask why we had such a large
• 111iffsh force remaining inactive,-and petit up'in the
' Furth of 'America, and what reason could be as.
• signed why this force delayed its operations against
the French West India Islands, until the etoeiny
had actually thrown in minion:totems to Guatla.
loupe and Dominique. It required 'wale ingenuity
to explain the cause of such a force being useless, io
• YOrtfl America, when it -might have 'struck a fatal
blow at the enemy in his West India Islands. Thus
have we unforttinatelY lost the' glorious opportunity
iSf excluding hint eternally from that. quarter. But
: : this was not Fall, there were' other points which
~. Would afford 'cause of - dissatisfaaloa -much nearer
home. Et, alluded to the operations of our army in
Spain ansi Portugal. He would insist that a tatal
• ' mot had hem committed in the fitting out of et-

•1

iibruinished with Why were not
the Of st light dragoon's sent out oii such a servicet•
as that Of Spain,. instead' of being tlittered awaY-at
:the Cape? From the ehiiraaer and ondutt'bf that
:eol-p§, he had no cionbc'hut they would have covered
theniselves with glory: But be woold'itote view the
progress of stir °perk ions in those countries.--(Here
the Honourable Member went into a detailed view
all the circnrustances attendingi the catripaigns'in
Spain and Portugal, but adduced nothing noVel upon
that subject.)

,r 7 The SECRETARY at Wsku, in answer,' said; that
the'etnbarkation of the 17th regiment fur India, Mid
the debarkation of the 9,lst at the Cape; seemed. to
.him to answer any. end required, a. well as if the
latter had gone diieetly tbrward, and the fOrtner: re-
mained.behind:at the:Cape.
Gen. TARLETOt4 explained.
Sir. A. WELLESLEY, alter. sorrie:preparatory ob-
servations, informed, the gallant • General, that 'it
was, impossible any operations could have been suc-
cessfully undertaken against the French' West Indies,
until the great-rains had ceased, which d:d not in
general happen to be the case .before the month of
October,. at which time operations were"atttially set
on foot for the purpOse. With.respeet to the gallant
General's remarks on the expeditions to • Spain and
Portugal, he would vindicate the Conduit, -ef. Mi-
r nisters• in not having sent out klarget body of t Ugh,
ry, as theih original plan was to carry 4on a coarse
1-. of operations.on'theTagus.• It was hb--'hirnsell Who
'changed that 'plan to Mondego Bay, -alid therefore
' he must assume the responsibility on that•
The latt• was, that -he expected to be joined by a
!.•censiilerable•hody. of Partntkiese cavalry. • It. answer
to an' assertion of the Hon. and 'Gallant General,
namely, the impossibility of the French • crossing the
Tagus, he would .beg lease to differ. At was 'op-
pareiWtti him, and most of the Officers on the Court
of inquiry, 'that subsequent to the battle of the 2 ist,
ircould have beety with ease accomplished. He had
delivered his e pinion to Sir H. Beriard, and he be-
lieved, that if atter the defeat of the enelny'on that
day, they had been pursued, we should have had a
ditferent termitiation to the affair. He aided in this
was, froin.being aware of the high situation he had
the honour to stand in, so tar as that •he possessed
the confidence ot•tbe army. Of the Convention he
would say, oat though he approved of the princi-
ples* upon which it :was founded, yet 'he totally
übjeeteitto the low tone in which they were con-
veyed-, and particularly so as he did not think it
warranted by the relative situation of the armies.,---
He then Male a testy remarks on the Spanish opera-
tions;:and the British line of retreat ; from any lit-
' potations in the disasters of whicn he acquitted his
Majesty's Ministers, Upon the whole 'he ivadc
rely able reply.

General TA-It L ETON, in allusion to the gallant
General's expectation from the Port t.luese cavalry,
said, that about nine ye 'r ago, he was sent over.
to Portugal to drill their cavalry 'forces ; but how
did they receive him ? ThLy,saidAheircay.dry was
a fine body, each company was a very good ihnig,
producing 6001, a year—and how ? by letting out
the horses to hackney coaches. -fur hire ; and then all
then, manozAvres weie performed m harness. In
God's haute, what advantage could be derived !roar
the assistance given by such cavalry as this

Mr. WurriatiAD made stinte7remarks on what
fell arum a.gailant General. (Sir A. Wellesley.), He
conceived that Sir H. Burraul was baldly treated.
no cotitidencu was reposed in him, yet he
was made relmhsible. The gallant General Jaislr-
ed w press upon him what seemed .10 him to be
right— Yet alter all Sir Harty Buirard was un-
acquainted, with the confidence which Ministers
ptaced in Sir Arthur. He cui..cluded by ob,erv-
ing, that it was his belief the gallant General did
not mean any uniavonrabie impression :should be
made with respect to Sir H. Burrs:ll ; he conceiv-
ed he would be the last man "in the universe, that
would act so.

.lVlr. CALcunfr Wished to know how the increase
of 10,0001. ior this year, and 12,0001. fur the list,
took place in the ordnance estimates. He would
also inquire int., the expenditure of the sums,tOr
new works at Plymouth, and the, Woolwich iand
Chatham Decks ; and of the sums voted 14 forJign
service-, including the small arms sent to Spam.--
Hire he could not suppress the mention of a curious
circumstance, that Gentlemen who, ham bevu ou
official business in that country have not obwrved
those arms in the people's hands. In tact, the ge-
neral cry has been all along, that they wanted arms
.very much. In bis opinion it was impossible they
had been delivered. He would wish to knew the
exad amount of what had been sent.
Mr. ASHLEY CooPtia stated the number of small
arms sent to Spain to be 000,000 stand. For the
explanation of that_ circumstance the Honourable
Member had advtlrted to, he would referilim to the
enemy's I sth. Bulletin, wherein it is stated, that at
the capture of Madrid t eO,OOO stand had been taken.
The increase in the ordnance estimates, he said,
arose ftoen the enlarged proportion of artillery, and
the increase of pensions in that dePartment.ol 13 or
6,ount.

Lord CASTLEREAGH thought•it necessary to state
to the.Continittee before they separated, that Go-
vernment had not only gone every length they
could, in giviner; to the- Spaniards a British army,
but they had also supplied them with arms, S:c>,
requisite to the; forwation.of a complete body of
two hundred thousand men, which was the number
Buonaparte had in contemplation rO oppoie them
with. Madrid Wai pot the drily place which was
made a depot for those supplies—they weredistri•
buted in every point over the'peninsula.. • tie in-
listed that every thing possible had been done tor
that country.
Mr, OALC:tAITT replied.
Mr...Fut.EN.NNTI.g, in the course of his remarks.
adverted, to the circumstance of 40,000 stand of
British small arms being found in the fortresk of
Livas, alter its bUiTt:ll‘l4l* by the French to our
forces. .

Lord CASTLER BAOII declared the impossitility.of
any of the arms sent from this Camay leaving
reached Elves, when that fort was evacuated by the
Frdoch.

- .
Attgr some further conversation, the Itesolution
way agreed tn.
The following sums were then voted, on the mo-
tion of Mr. A. COOPSH.
Fur the Irish laild-tircluarice for 1809
499.936
for rile Irish land-ordnance for inos, unprovidiAltor
For the-Britigt land.orthiance for Iraq • 4.4.ipuio
For-the Uncial land-ordnance for 18:$, unprovacci
fir • 'A 1 • ,41‘9#763