The Sun.
London, England, 1836-08-16 00:00:00

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.

TATTERSALL' S...._yEsTERDAy.
DONCASTER ST. LEGER.
The backers of the Irish favourite, Wedge, came out in gee!,
bettingforce yesterday, and, notwithstanding the large sums laid out uP°
Brother to St. Giles, brought him to even betting with him, each
leaving off at 9to 2, offers, and sto 1, takers. Redshank's friends
were so shy that 7 to 1 went begging, while 9 to 1 eaeh was offered
in vain against Vulture and Trapball, and 9 to 1 against each of the
three in one bet. The same doubt that existed last week still pre'
vails with respect to Elis, and it was not a little increased by the
offers of a Noble Lord yesterday afternoon to take 1,500 to 1,
that he beats Hornsea for the King's Plate at Egham next weed
9 to 1 was offered against him for the St. Leger, p.p., and 1,-1
to 200 taken, not p.p. Carew was quoted at one time at 20 to
and afterwards at 16 to 1 ; and the Matilda colt declined to 20 to
at which price he was only nominally in the market. The betting
closed, at a late hour, as follows !-
9 to 2 agst Mr. W. Scott's Bro. to St. Giles—take 5 to 1
9 to 2 agst Colonel Westenra's Wedge—take 5 to 1
7 to 1 agst Lord Wilton's Gladiator—taken
7 to 1 agst Mr. Bird's Redshank—offered
9 to 1 agst Mr. Allanson's Vulture—offered
9 to 1 agst Mr. Mostyn's Traphall—offe ed
9 to 1 agst Lord Lichfield's Elis—offered
12 to 1 agst Mr. Orde's Beeswing—offered
16 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's Carew—offered
20 to 1 agst Duke of Cleveland's Matilda colt—offered
40 to 1 agst Major St. Paul's colt—offered
40 to 1 agst Railroad and Demetrius—offered
350 to 100 agst Brother to St Giles and Carew—taken
1,200 to 100 on Wedge agst Gladiator—taken
1,000 even between Brother to St. Giles and Wedge
600 to 400 on Brother to St. Giles agst Gladiator
600 to 400 on Brother to St. Giles agst Redshank
600 to 400 on Brother to St. Giles agst Wedge
700 to 400 agst Lord Wilton's Gladiator
600 to 100 agst Colonel Westenra's Wedge
300 even between Vulture and Trapball
THE DERBY.
15 to 1 agst Mr. Sadler's Defender
15 to 1 agst Captain Garduor's Phantasima colt—taken

NEW CASTLE RACE S—THunsn4r.
A Free Handicap of 5 sovs. each, 3 ft., with 30 added. T'cld
round and a distance. 4 Subs.
Mr. Patten's Lady Mary, 5 yrs, 7st. 71b...Whitehouse 1
Mr. G. Cookes's Red Rover, 5 yrs, Bst. 71b .••
Mr. J. Thompson's Lady Frances, 3 yrs, 6st. 21b...... 3 r
A Maiden Plate of 50 sovs., given by W. H. Miller, Esq., Melut -e
for the Borough. Twice round and a distance.
Colonel Anson's Wish, 3 yrs, 7st W. Jones 1 1
Mr. Leedham's b. f. by Young Phantom, 3 yrs, 7st 2 2
Mr. Berrington's Misprint, 4 yrs, Bst. 41b. 3 3
FRIDAY. reel'
The Newcastle Cup of 10 sovs. each, with 50 added by E.
Esq., M. P. Twice round and a distance.
Mr. Johnson's Jupiter, 3 yrs, Bst. llb ...Darling 1
Lir J. Boswell's Sunbeam, 3 yrs, 6st. 131 b 2.
Mr. E. Peel's Post Haste, 3 yrs, 6st. 101 b
Mr. Patten's Mary, 5 yrs, Bst. 71b
A Ladies' Purse of 30 sovs., added to a Subscription of .5 o°°'
each, for all ages. Heats, twice round and a distance.
Mr. Price's Ludford, 3 yrs, Bst. 21b...M. Jones 2 1 1
Mr. Nanney's Friar Tuck, 4 yrs, 85t........... 1 2 2
Sir J. Boswell's The Stag, 4 yrs, Bst. 21b 4 4 3
Mr. Nicholson's Lady Lowman, 4 yrs, Bst 3 3 cif

The Duke of Devonshire passed through Leeds 'aPi
Thursday, accompanied by Lord William Paget, on big the
to Bolton Lodge, where his Grace was to be joined 11 of
Earl of Clare and a party, formed to partake of the sP°"
grouse shooting.
The Duke of Buccleuch, after staying a few as:at Dalkeith, will set off for Drumlanrig Castle, in Dtolr'rie,
shire, which he has nearly re-built, at a very great exPern—oho
for a sporting seat. The Marquis of Lothian, Lord
Scott, &c., have been invited to Drumlanrig. 110
The Countess of Essex resides during the alit') gi
at Norwood ; and gives dinners and card parties twice eY"
week. Lady Hamlyn Williams also has parties twice, ever
week.
The Countess Ezerincheff, a Russian lady of P°1;511
extraction, attended by her physician, Dr. Denier, left
Clarendon Hotel on Saturday, for Brighton. de
Lord and the Hon. the Messrs. Plunket, LOLL ot
Roos, Lord Reay, and many other fashionables were atett.
the passengers who left London on Sunday last, by th°
werp Company's steam-packet, Princess Victoria. St
The venerable Earl of Besborough has arrive' the
his villa at Roehampton, from a visit to his second solltpor•
Hon. William Spencer Ponsonby, M. P., at Canford , in tof
setshire. His Lordship has relinquished the manaHemeb'tity
his extensive estates in the county Kilkenny to Visc, aunt othst
cannon, who is about to proceed to Kilkenny for three 0100
during which period the Privy Seal, held by his Jacir
will be put into Commission. a for
Lord William Russell has again left Eng 1311 Airg,
the Continent. His Lordship's daughter, the Mela• landr
Henry Grey Bennet, is on the eve of returning to• Eng
from Florence.
at
The expense incurred for the Houses of Pa 14'30-co 00
since the fire, appears, by a paper just published by t ;h°, for
of Commons, to have been 45,581/. 2s. 1d.,--na w faro
erecting the temporary houses, 32,140/. Os. 7d., and for Deo;
ture, 13,4411. ls. 6d. Of the latter, 5,317/. 12s. bas, the
expended on the House of Peers, and 8,023/, 9s. Oc G "-
House of Commons.
1/Y
BRITISH MUSEUM.—A petition was prese4, tea 4
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on Saturday, fro biro to
John Millard, representing the services rendered by
the British Museum Committee.

, • 11
COPYRIGHT BILL.--The following resottitttY ti.o•
reported to the House of Commons on Saturday, and it, tcs
tion was given to the Committee on the Copyright 'fbsf
make provision in the Bill to carry it into effect:' 201 e
annual compensation be made out of the Consolidated I of the
the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland to an tog
public libraries which may sustain loss by reason of bi rite
longer entitled to a copy of every book which shall be P
or published." ofith
RATTLIN THE REEFER.—_.“ The rapiditY led
which the first edition of this work was taken up, has re 0' tool
a second absolutely necessary. Captain Marryat is 11'711 :tae is
well known as the author of these celebrated sea tales Wei ► hie
in need of much eulogy; indeed the avidity with Whi thr
several productions have been sought is after all, perhaP.g; tiled
best test of the author's powers as a novelist of this pat"' ipe
class. The adventures of the Reefer are not wholly, c°llgi reel
to the sea. Some of the characters are drawn
with
power, and the dialogue is admirably told throu.,o*b°"
Sunday Times.
1,-0 0'
STEAM TOWING EXPEDITION.—The s-'l.oocl to
neral Palmer, 700 tons burthen, Commander Down, ix l.),0
Calcutta, sailed from the London Docks on SundTo
being hauled out of the Wapping entrance she was 4: worf
tow by the Caledonian Steam Towing Company's P 0 di ags,
vessel, Tam o'Shanter, Captain Reid, and notwithe!aG rafein
strong flood spring tide, and an easterly wind, reacheq.,
.$ 0_1;
end in four hours and a half; an instance of speed, vilut%precer
of such magnitude as the General Palmer, quite ,
reate r •-p•
dented. Solder Johnny, a new steam-vessel of g
than Tam o'Shanter, belonging to the same enterpris; jgyc'
pany, and to be commanded by Captain Walker, Is d P—
pected to arrive in the Thames.

Resolved, that this House (loth agree to a Free Conference,
as is desired by their Lordships :—Messengers called in and
acquainted.
Ordered, That the Managers who managed the last Free
Conference do manage this.
Then the names of the managers were called over ; and some
of them not appearing, Mr. Hume. Mr. Ewart, Mr. Warbur-
ton, Mr. Cutler Fergusson, and Mr. Loch were added in lieu
of those who did not appear.
Then the Managers went to the Conference; and being re-
turned,
Lord John Russell reported, that the Managers had met the
Lords at the Free Conference, which was managed on the part
tethe Lords by the Rarl of Ripon, who acquainted them that
e Lords adhere to their Amendment in Press 5, line 25 ;
because the Municipal Corporations Act not having provided
that a fresh election should take place in the event of an equa-
lity of votes, the Lords consider that it would be in accord-
ance with the principle of that Act which this Bill is intended
to amend, to meet the difficulty arising from an equality of
of votes in the manner in which it is met under the provisions
of that Act, namely, by the casting vote of the person presid-
ing at the election.
That the Lords likewise adhere to the insertion of Clause
(L) ; because they are of opinion that the inconvenience aris-
ing from the placing of the Charitable Trusts under the ma-
nagement of the Lord Chancellor would be much greater than
that of allowing them to remain until the end of the next Ses-
sion, or until Parliament shall otherwise provide, in the hands
of the persons in whom both Houses of Parliament concurred
in continuing them by the Act of last year.
• That the Lords observe that it has not appeared that any
practical injury has arisen from the disposition with respect to
these Trusts made with the concurrence of both Houses in the
course of the last Session, but thy Lords arc nevertheless
anxiously desirous that the management of these Charitable
Funds should be placed upon a permanent and satisfactory
footing, whereby the administration of Charities intended for
the benefit of the poor, might, as far as possible, be divested
of all party influence.
That thereupon a discussion arose between the Managers on
the part of the Commons, and the Managers on the part of
the Lords ; and that the Managers on the part of the Lords
thereupon delivered back the Bill and Amendments to the
Managers of the Commons.
Ordered, That the said Amendments be taken into further
consideration upon this day three months.
SECOND CONFERENCE.
Earl of RIPON—The Lords adhere to their Amendments
iii press 5, line 25, because the Municipal Corporations Act
not having provided that a fresh election should take place in
the event of an equality of votes, the Lords consider that it
Would, be in accordance with the principle of that Act, which
,the Bill is intended to amend, to meet the difficulty arising
'roman equality of votes in the manner in which it is met
under the provisions of that Act, namely, by the casting vote
of the person presiding at the election.
The Lords likewise adhere to the insertion of clause (L,)
hecause they are of opinion that the inconvenience arising,
from the placing of the Charitable Trusts under the manage-
Inent of the Lord Chancellor, would be much greater than
that of allowing them to remain until the end of the next
Session, or until Parliament shall otherwise provide, in the
hands of the persons in whom both Houses of Parliament have
concurred in continuing them by the Act of last year. The
Lords observe, that it has not appeared that any practical in-
jury has arisen from the disposition, with respect to those
trusts, made with the concurrence of both Houses in the
course of last Session ; but the Lords are nevertheless anxi-
ously desirous that the management of these charitable funds
should be placed upon a permanent and satisfactory footing,
Whereby the administration of charities intended for the benefit
of the poor might be put, as far as possible be divested of all
Party influence. •
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—The Commons have not in-
structed their Managers to yield on the point of disagreement
from these Clauses.
With respect to the Amendment that has been made in press
5, line 25, the Commons are of opinion that a provision for
some method of election would be more conformable to the
spirit of the Municipal Corporations Act than the provision
Which is introduced by the House of Lords. Upon that point,
however, the Managers would have been willing to refer
again to the House of Commons, in the anxious hope that by
yielding some of their opinions the Commons might come
to a satisfactory adjustment ; and enable Parliament to
carry • into effect a Bill which provides for the amend.
Ment of many defects in the Municipal Corporations Act, and
which was intended to prevent serious inconveniences, arising
from the failure of some of the provisions in the Municipal
Corporations Act with respect to particular places.
But, with respect to the insertion of clause ( L), the Com-
mons undoubtedly hoped that the clause would not be thought
necessary by the Lords in a Bill for the Amendment of the
• Corporation Act. It does not scorn that the Clause in the
Corporation Act on this subject absolutely required amend-
ment, and the provision of the Lords is not to amend or supply
any defect in that clause, but for its continuance to another
Year• Such a provision, whether expedient or inexpedient,
does not seem to be necessary or essential in a Bill for the
Amendment of the Municipal Corporations Act, and at the
of the clause which now stands in the Act of Parliament,
d;▪ :isi°n is made for the direction by orders of the Lord
4ncellor, with respect to the administration of charitable
.31148t5, therebyimplying that Parliament had satisfied itself
1t sufficient provision was made even if the Ist of August
836 should arrive without any further measure being adopted
Y Parliament for the permanent administration of those trusts.
that there is anything at all convenient, or indeed harmless in
the continuance of those trusts in the present holders for ano-
tuer year, the Commons communicating as they do with their
constituents in various parts of the country, are made daily
aware of the serious inconveniences which flow from the per-
Sion of of Trusts intended for the relief of the poor, intended
'or the education of the poor, intended for the promotion of
charity, and the encouragement of learning, to the purposes of
aiding and abetting the objects of political party, without re-
ference to the desires of those individuals who were their ori-
ginal founders, or the application which ought to be made of
them at the present time.
These serious evils, affecting as they do the application of
those trusts, affecting as they do the morals and condition of
the inhabitants of the towns in which their trusts exist, the
permanent
had hoped to remedy, by a Bill providing for the
Pernlanent administration of those trusts. That Bill unfortu-
nately did not meet with the concurrence of your Lordships,
'l'd your Lordships did not enable the Commons to consider
ItttY Amendments to that Bill, by which that permanent admi-
nistration might be provided for in a manner different from
that Proposed by the Commons, and yet securing that adminis-
tration from the profligate and base purposes to which it has
ucen often perverted.
With this view therefore to clause (L), of the effects of
• litPhich the Commons are persuaded that your Lordships were
c't se well aware from, not being in such constant intercourse
With the inhabitants of those towns as their representatives
Ittrn4e,,the Commons cannot agree. They are of opinion, cer-
CY, that much inconvenience may flow from the applica-
sto the Lord Chancellor, causing sometimes delay and
toMetimes difficulty and dispute with respect to their future ad-
litistration. They are aware likewise that it may be that the
tunicipal Councils now elected by the Act of Parliament,
hethem, after the cessation of the present trustees those trusts
thentirely devolve ; and the Commons therefore feel that
ere will be greater difficulty by deferring legislation to alio-
kusr year, in providing that those trusts shall be permanently
_ept out of the hands of persons who, being busily engaged in
tntical contests either on the one side or the other, would
wish to make a political engine of those trusts.
ss The Commons were anxious to provide for them in such a
:gannes that they should not be liable to such abuse. Accord-
soing to the clause which is now under consideration they think
mehey would be liable to misapplication for another year, in
the places to a very injurious and extensive degree. Under
(1` e direction of the Lord Chancellor they hope that, whatever
sselaYS may occur, there is at least a better chance that orders
t7.ll_Y be given for their due administration than could have
t"'en place if had agreed to the clause now under considera-
-111". The Commons therefore will be deeply disappointed at
Clause from the Bill, and I cannot but still express, in the name
or.the Managers of the Commons, their hope, that your Lord-
sniPs may be instructed with respect to that part of the Bill, at
least to conic to some accommodation on a point ou which the
k'orrinrions are very earnestly bent.
It is the anxious wish of the Commons to continue on a good
tgilerstanding, with the Lords, and I should hope that this
HOl may not he the cause either of throwino• blame on the one
House of Parliament or on the other, but that the end may be
"arliament may be enabled to enact this useful law, pro-
aanisrfor the remedy of many injurious
.de.fects Aithout the
mission of a clause which, in their opinion, was originally
insert si
it e es. without necessity, and which they think would-be, in
people nsequences, most hurtful to the community and to the
L whom they represent.
desirous
LYND HUR ST.—The Lords are, and ever must be,
zolrous of
maintaining a good understanding with the Com-
sidS:' They would, upon a point which they did not con-
be s_ol essential importance to the interests of the country,
they
aisposed to accede to the wishes of the Commons; but
n have maturely considered this question, and find it im-
po4ibie to •
into the vvay with respect to it. s
Th^ clause introduced
, bill, in the last Session of Parliament, was so intro-
. :Irelliaenac;enle
tuwrieth a desire of affording an opportunity to both Houses
a Bill for the purpose of the final and permanent
fortu nt of this most delicate and difficult subject. lin-
the inately, however the two Houses have not agreed as to
fore, e.asure to be adopted. The Lords have thought, there-
ulen.
of
they were acting in accordance with the arranges
ftthe last Session, 'in introducing this clause, and pro-
fs '_Jrng hat the time should be extended for another Session,
•4 o (ler to afford •an opportunity
for maturing a measure so
itantidpotrbstaitit to the interests of the public. It is with this view.
insert view only, that they have thought it their duty to
to be
he strinctelonfo
the clause for extending the time; they consider this
rmity with the principle already adopted, and to
stallees y !in
have
rendered necessary by the circum-
which have since occurred.
It
hascharacterbeen suggested that the parties now invested with the
part
of :)f trustees have misconducted themselves. On the
eppoilit d the Lords, I beg to sate, that those persons were
• both ire by the Act, and must be considered as selected by e I--oaseso of Parliament—both Houses of Parliament as-
d.t their nomination. The Lords arc not aware, from
duals"▪ o evidence which has been laid before them, nor has the re-
f the inquiries which they have made,
that those
tithe
in the slightest degree misconducted themselves
Luc their appointment. If their sppointmen t was sanctioned
Y the Lords arid Commons, it s'is. ems necessary, before any

31
UNICIPAL CORPORATIONS ACT-
. reasonable objection can be urged against them, that the Lords
AMENDMENT BILL. should be satisfied that since their appointment they have
abused their trust. The Lords have no evidence of that
description—they have inquired into the subject, and the re.
cult has been, that no abuse has, since the passing of the Act
of last Session, taken place. Indeed, it seems almost impos-
sible that any abuse should have occurred since that period.
Those individuals were conscious that their conduct would be
watched and be criticised by persons who had ample opportuni-
ties for that purpose, and who were not disposed to look upon
them with a favourable eye. Under these circumstances, it is
not at all probable that they should, even if so disposed, have
at all misconducted themselves, as has been suggested. Arid
the Lords beg further to observe, that no complaint has been
made to the proper tribunals, calling in question any part of
their conduct.
This being so, and taking this as the basis of the reasoning,
the question is to whether it would be better that these trus-
tees should be continued for another year better with refe-
rence to the interests of the charities, and with reference to
the public interest that they should be continued another
year, or that the Lord Chancellor should, in the manner pro-
vided by the Act, administer these trusts. On the part of the
Lords, -I
would suggest, with all deference to the Commons,
that if the Chancellor is called upon to administer these
trusts, it will produce great injury to the objects of the charity.
The proceeding must be by a petition presented on behalf of
these charities ; these petitions must be considered by the
Chancellor; and if the object be to appoint new trustees, the
matter must be referred to a Master, who will be required to
report as to the persons proper to be appointed. After the
Master has made his report, which may be the result of a long
and perhaps an expensive inquiry, it must be submitted to the
consideration of the Chancellor, the report may be ex-
cepted to, various inquiries may arise, and it may pos-
sibly be referred back ;gain for the re-consideration of
the Master. The expense of all these proceedings must
of course be paid out of the charity funds. Many of
these charities are very small in amount, and the whole
fund may be swallowed up in the expense of the proceedings.
Under these circumstances it would be most injurious, first of
all with reference to the time consumed and the delay which
may take place ; and secondly, with reference to the expense
which must be thrown upon the Charity funds, that this course
of proceedings should be adopted.
Considering these inconveniences, and that on the other
band there is no ground for imputing misconduct to the pre-
sent trustees: the Lords consider that it will be far better to
continue them for another year in the discharge of their duties,
than to adopt the alternative insisted on by the Commons, and
in the hope that both Houses of Parliament, by directing their
attention anxiously to this difficult subject, may early in the
next Session agree upon a measure permanent in its nature
and beneficial in its character, calculated to obviate all objec-
tions, and to establish such a system as may provide for the
satisfactory discharge of the duties incident to these important
trusts.

Mr. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—My
Lords, as one of the Managers for the Commons, I have
listened with the respect due to any recommendation coming
from your Lordships, to the observations which have been
made by the Noble Lord who has just spoken ; but at the
same time I cannot help thinking that many of those observa-
tions are inapplicable as applied in support of the determina-
tion expressed by your Lordships, and are inapplicable also as
opposed to the reasons stated by the Commons. I cannot
help thinking, my Lords, that if all these inconveniences sug-
gested by that Noble Lord are to result from the adjudication
of the Court of Chancery upon these charities, that in that
event the determination of both the Lords and Commons in
the course of the last year in admitting that, as a possible al-
ternative, which now appears to the Noble Lord to be preg-
nant with evil, was a determination indefeasible in itself. We
may admit the necessity of having last year continued the ex-
isting trustees as a temporary provision, but then the Legisla-
ture adopted as an alternative, in the event that a Parliamentary
interference should take place, that the order of the Lord Chan-
cellor should be applicable to these trusts. By the Act of last
Session it therefore appeared to your Lordships no less than
to the House of Commons, that the controul of Chancery was
an alternative that might be defended ; it therefore aepears to
the Commons now that we cannot consent at once to connect
with that alternative so adopted by your Lordships, all the
evils and all the inconveniences which have been so strongly
enforced upon our consideration.
But another and a still stronger objection appears to apply
to the argument of the noble Manager ; there is scarcely an
argument which has been urged in defence of the course
which the Managers for the Lords have defended which does
not appear to us likely to be repeated, and capable of being
repeated with equal force on all future occasions ; and if we
were to acquiesce in these arguments, we should sanction a
principle that might justify the Legislature in leaving perma-
nently, in the hands of the existing trustees, those funds which
we contend they have abused ; because, my Lords, will it not
be again contended, or may it not be contended, in a future
session, and every future occasion, that the alternative of re- '
sorting to the orders of the Court of Chancery is in itself so
open to objection, so pregnant with inconvenience, that we
shall be again and again induced as a lesser evil, to continue
in the hands of the existing trustees those funds which they
have abused.
My Lords, with all due respect, and all submission to the
arguments which have been urged, and by those who have
preceded me, I take the liberty of urging upon your Lord-
ships' consideration, that it would not be just to confine the
argument within the limits that have been stated by the Noble
Lord. It might have been expedient in 1835, notwithstand-
ing it was proved that previous abuse existed, to continue the
existing trusts unaltered for one year, in the earnest expecta-
tion that your Lordships might have been induced to unite
with the Commons in providing, during the present Session,
an improved system of management for those charitable trusts.
It might have been expedient to continue it, avowedly as a
temporary arrangement fer one year, passing by the previous
misconduct of some of those trustees; it might have been jus-
tifiable to continue it under these circumstances. It may pos-
sibly be admitted that there is not evidence before your Lord-
ships of misconduct within the present year; but if there
was evidence of previous misconduct, and if the argument
now advanced not only goes to the continuance for a year,
but admits a principle that would go the extent of the
permanent continuance of those trustees, then we appeal not
to their conduct during the last year, but to the whole of their
conduct, as exhibited to Parliament • and we further state,
that we are disposed to believe, that there is inherent in the
Courts of Justice of this land, a sufficient remedy for the ob-
ject; that the:first equity tribunal is not so deficient of power,
that it is not so devoid of authority, but that in the adminis-
tration of its functions, under the Act of Parliament which
commits these trusts to its care, we shall still see, through the
medium of that Court of Equity, a remedy for some of the
abuses which have been pointed out ; and, my Lords, we had
rather taken even our chance of that remedy being inade-
quate, than put the solemn seal of the Legislature of this
country to the continuance, if not the perpetuation of a
system which we know, by evidence upon which we rely, the
evidence on which the Bill, of which this is an amendment,
was itself founded, the evidence taken before the Royal Com-
mission to be a system open to just animadversion; we prefer
running the chance that the remedy afforded by the Court of
Chancery may not perhaps be cheap enough, possibly not
being expeditious enough, we prefer even the inadequacy of
that remedy, to giving the authority of the Legislature to the
revival of a system which we believe to have been corrupt, to
have been partial, and to have led to the grossest misapplica-
tion of charity funds.
Lord L YNDHUR ST.—Allow me to say, with reference
to what has fallen from the Hon. Manager, that, as far as re-
lates to those individuals who are now trustees, I do not recol-
lect that there is any evidence, and none such has been pointed
out of their having been guilty of misconduct at any former
period.
Mr. HUME.—My Lords, on behalf of the Commons I beg
leave to call your Lordships' attention to what the Noble
Lord has not adverted to, and bearing exactly on the speech
of the Noble Lord. We, as representatives of the Commons,
presume we arc better acquainted with the feelings and the
opinions of our constituents, than your Lordships are. We
have, as the Noble Lord has stated, frequent communication
with them, and in agreeing to the Bill of last year, changed
and altered as it was, we had perfect confidence that, as re-
garded the charities, the clause in the Bill held out fairly and
confidently the hope, that in the course of this year measures
would be taken by Parliament to place the trusts in other and
more trustworthy hands. We contemplated that the Bill of
last Session would give confidence to the Municipal Commu-
nities, and encourage a perfect reliance on the part of the
various communities, in the future improved administration of
those trusts ; and when your Lordships are aware that, by the
elections which have since taken place in these Corporations,
a complete change has been made in the greater portion of
those magistrates and councillors who were in office at that
time. I think that the Noble and Learned Lord is not
borne out in stating that the appointment of those charitable
trustees was sanctioned by the House of Commons—sanctioned
they undoubtedly were, as far as the Bill went ; but, I believe,
the House of Commons, in concurring in that temporary provi-
sion, had a perfect confidence that, in the course of this year,
provision would be made by Parliament to alter the adminis-
tration of these trusts, and place them on a permanent footing.
The enactment of that temporary provision we presumed to
think would give confidence and satisfaction to the people.
But I can state to your Lordships, that the allowing the trusts
to remain in the hands in which they have been even for one
year, has given any thing but satisfaction to a large portion
of the community. I should say, with scarcely an exception,
that the new Municipal Corporations are not satisfied or con-
tented with the hands in which the trusts have been left ; and
if the Noble Lord has not heard any complaints made against
the administration of those trusts during the past year, lie will
allow me to say that those complaints, in many cases, have
not been made, only because the people saw, by the provisions
of the Bill of last Session, a termination to those trusts, and
they thought, in many instances, in some of which I have
myself been consulted, that it was much better to put up for
that limited time with the existing evils which they felt, and
the removal of which they had a right to urge, rather than
come forward and make complaints. On these grounds,
therefore, my Lords, we contend that the argument of the
Noble Lord, as regards no complaints being made, will not
hold good; the communities depended on the pledge given,
and had perfect confidence that these matters would be pro-
perly considered and decided on in this Session.
Your Lordships have thought proper to reject the provi-
sions for that settlement which were made by the Commons in
a Bill sent up to your Lordships, and the alternative now is,
whether it is better too allow the trusts to remain in hands
the of the communities in
whichwhich do
tleyn ortesiedrejo,Yo.r tchoentfirduesnt se eshould pass, as determined
by the Bill of last Session, to the management of the Lord
Chancellor. I undoubtedly am not aware of the various diffi-
culties which may arise in the administration of these trusts by
the Lord Chancellor, such as the Noble Lord has pointed out;
but to my intelligence in reading the Bill, I do not, at any