The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-23 00:00:00

THE SUN,

doctrine of transubstantiation, were exempt from all
penalties against non-conformity in ecclesiastical
courts, and also from what was called the Conventicle
and Five-mile Acts. The ci:eration of this Act, how-
ever, was limited. It excluded Roman Catholics. and
persons who did not believe in the doctrine of the Holy
Trinity. These exceptions were
from time to time
gradually abolished, and the benefits of the Toleration
Act extended to Unitarians, and in the fullest extent to
Roman Catholics, and also to persons in holy orders, oe
pretended holy orders, who were not called epoti to eign
a declaration of belief in the Tirarty•nine Articles of
the Church, but merely that they net e Protestant Dis-
seuters, and believed in the Holy Scripture s. This
was the sta'e of the law with which he proposed
to deal. The Court of Queen's Bench had
lately decided that though a minister dissenting from
the Church of England was exempt from penalties
under the common law, he was still liable to be proceeded
against in the Ecclesiastical Courts for a breach of disci-
pline. He could be fined 251. a month for not attending
his parish church, if residing within five miles, 40/., he
believed under the Conventicle Act. Other Dissenting
ministers, who had never bcen connected with the
Church, were exempt from all these penalties. but they
were still held binding on those who had once been tiler-
gpyer(mseinn! ldoefouthatnoCthbuyrcty
Church; and the Court held that such
act of their own release thems
selves from these burdens. A person in such a situation
was in fact a su', a slave fur life.—(Hear.) lie be-
lieved that the doctrine wits even pushed to the ex-
treme, that deposition itself did not relieve the person
so deposed from these burdens.—(Hear, hear.) They
were of course all bound to bow to the decisions
of the Court of Queen's Bench as to whiit the
really was, but he thought the House would agree
with him that it involved great hardship, and he con-
tended that such a construction of it was not in ac•
cordance with the intentions of the trainers of the
Toleration Act themselves. In fact it reimposed the
very grievances of which they complained. He would
merely mention the case of Richard Baxter, a name
which would be respected as long as learning, piety, and
worth were reverenced.—(Hear.) Richard Baxter was
episcopally ordained, and could it be believed that an Act
framed for the relief of Nonconformists would be framed
in such a manner as to exclude him from its benefits?
He thought the House would be prepared to give relief
from the burdens which the Court of Queen's Bench de-
cided were imposed by law. This was not a mere
theoretical question, but a practical one, and he
needed only to refer to the case recently decided in
the Queen's Bench to justify him in asking the House
at once to resolve itself into a Committee on the law.
For all that the Howe knew, the person aff,cted by
that decision is now in prison; it not, he was liable
to be put there at any moment, and might remain
there, as far as the law was concerned, for the re-
mainder of his life. He was not going to enter into the
details of the particular case which had directed atten-
tion to this matter (that of the Bishop of Exeter and
Mr. Shore). He would merely say, with reference to the
conduct of the Bishop in that case, that he thanked God
there had been few such bishops in this country since
the Revolution—(Hear, hear)—and he believed that if
they had many such biehops the state of religion in this
country would have been very different indeed to what
it now was.—(Hear, hear.) there was no man to whom
this country was so deeply indebted as John Wesley,
yet he was episcopally ordained; so was Whitefield; and
if the bishops of that day had entertained the same views
as those which had been acted upon in the case he had
referred to, both Wesley and Whitefield would have been
shut up in prison all their days, instead of labouring as
they did in the diffusion of religious knowledge and sen-
timents among the people.—( Hear, hear.) In order
to show the House, however, that he was not
alone in the view he took of this question, he might
state that he had the approval of no lees a person
than the Archbishop of Canterbury, whose authority was
high, not only on account of his position in the Chureh,
but from his eminent virtues and his piety as a man. The
Archbishop of Canterbury said he entirely concurred with
his (Mr. Bouverie'e) opinions, that there ought to be
some amendment in the Toleration Act.—(Hear, hear.)
He proposed that any clergyman who dissented trom the
Established Church, should, in addition to the oath he
was required to take as a Dissenting minister to escape
these penalties, likewise make a declaration of dissent
from the Established Church. He would require that
that declaration should be registered in compliance with
the provisions ef the Toleration Act, and that it should
be forward, d to the Bishop of the diocese, and having
been registered by bun, that the person so departing
from the Church, should be relieved of all the burdens
which attached to him while in connexion with it, and
at the same time, as was but just, that he should lose all
claims and privileges which he possessed while a clergy-
man of the Church.—(Hear, hear.) In short, he merely
wished to put a person in the simple state which he
would have occupied if he had never been a clergyman
at all.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM—WiII you let him have a
seat in the House of Commons?

Mr. I3OUVERIE—I shall propose to do so.—(Hear.
The Hon. Member concluded by moving for the Come
mittee.

Mr. GLADSTONE regretted that the Hon. Member,

in moving his resolutiori, had thought fit to speak it;
terms of grave censure of the conduct of a Bishop of the
Church in the case to which he referred. The Hon.
Member might be better informed on the subject than
he was, and might, for all he knew, have authority for
the statement; but certainly, as far as he was informed,
he did not think the Hon. Member had given a just
view of the matter. He understood that the Bishop of
Exeter had offered to Mr. Shore to relieve him from all
penalties as far as he (the Bishop) was concerned.
Whether it was Mr. Shore's refusal to accept the condi-
tions, or the defect of the law, which prevented the offer
from being carried out, he knew not. With respect to the
resolution, he heartily concurred in the object in view—
and if at any future stage theie should arise any difficul-
ties of detail which prevented its attainment, he should
feel both surprised and grieved.—(Hear, hear.) The
principle of the measure was a simple one—to release a
man from burdens imposed upon him while in a certain
situation, when he ceased to fill that situation, and at

the same time to deprive him of all privileges enjoyed
while filling it.—(Hear, hear.) There was no theological

question raised by the Measure. He hoped that in Com-
mittee it would not be necessary to dwell upon details;
and all he would further say was, that he thanked the
Hon. Slember for the introduction of the subject, which
would, be hoped and believed, effect a valuable improve-
ment in the law.

The motion was then agreed to, and the Speaker
hating left the Chair, the House went into Committee,

and the resolution that a Bill be brought in having been
agreed to, the House again resumed.
Mr. BERNAL reported the same, and a Bill was or•
dered to be brought in.

LONDON,

r after the 1011 g experience of the Hon. Member, he should
that night have contented himself with bringing forward
an abstract proposition, the truth or which no man in his
senses could think of doubtieg, instead of laying a Bill
upoa their table for the pure se of practically carrying
out the real object which he had in view, and containing
provisions by which such a measure could be made to
work. Reviewing the speech of the Honourable
Member, it would be impossible to deny the
likeness of the picture which he had drawn of tha state
of Ireland, the distress and the embarrassment of the
landlord, as well as the condition of pauperism to which
the population were reduced. Thatthe Honourable Mem-
ber represented to he the condition of the great mass of
the country, and with that condition he contrasted the
prosperity of the county of Down—a prosperity which
the Hon. Member did not hesitate to say was owing al-
together to the tenure by which land was held iu that
county, and that that prosperity was in a most especial
degree owing to his favourite tenant right. Now,
really, notwithstanding the strong preference which the
Hon. Gentleman entertained for this tenant right, it
mouid not be very difficult to show that the difference
between the two parts of the country on which s much
stress had been laid was not altogether owing to the dif-
ference of tenure subsisting in the one province as com-
pared with thet prevailing in the other. He would take
the case of Donegal. There was no part or Ireland
whatever in which there was more of what was called
tenant right than in that county. He, there-
fore, did not think it was a fair deduction to say
that the difference between Ulster and Connaught was
altogether owing to the existence of tenant right in the
one province and its non-existence in the other. He
believed it c.eald easily be shown that the rundale was
one of the causes of the marked difference between the
two districts, end then, again, the system of joint tenancy
might be considered another. But, in making these ob-
servations, he wished it to be understood most distinctly
that ho did not deny the general accuracy of the descrip-
tion given by the Hon. Mover. His Hon. Friend alluded
to the expediency of adopting a law somewhat like what
in Scotland was called Montgomery's Act, and be (Sir
W. Somerville) the more particularly adverted to this,
as it gave him an opportunity of stating that Mont-
gomery's Act had been most carefully considered by
the commission which sat under the presidency of Lord
Devon, and it wasahe deliberate opinion of that com-
mission, that neither that Act, nor the machinery by
which it was worked, could in any respect be rendered
applicable to Ireland. He was, however, far from say-
ing that some measure of the kind might not be advan-
tageously introduced; but what he meant to show was,
that there was extreme difficulty in dealing with subjects
of this nature. His Hon. Friend next alluded to the
Bill of last session, which had been introduced by him-
self, aided by one or two other Members of that House,
the chief object of which measure was to enable proprie-
tors in fee to charge the whole estate with sums of money
to be borrowed for the purpose of improving those
estates, end the machinery for carrying that object into
effect was to have been the Board of Works. Let them
only imagine for a moment every landed proprietor in
Ireland using the machinery of the Board of Works.
That Board must in all cases examine the nature
and practicability of the projected improvements
before issuing their fiat. The board must in all
cases have made themselves responsible for the whole
of the outlay. Now, he need hardly suggest that this
would have had the effect of involving them in disputes
with every landed proprietor in Ireland. And how
much worse would matters have been if the more en-
larged ideas of his Hon. Friend had been carried into
effect? He was sure that his Hon. Friend would soon
have found such schemes to be impracticable. It was to
be hoped, however, that the objects which his Hon.
Friend had in view might be differently attained; at all
events he felt assured that little good could be accom-
plished by throwing upon Government boards that
which the proprietors of lands ought to do for themselves.
The next subject to which his Hon. Friend directed the
attention of the House was the necessity of providing
some means for remunerating tenants who at their own
expense had improved their holdings. It could not fail
to be in the recollection of the House that measures on
that subject had been proposed by Lord Stanley and by
the Noble Lord the Member for the Falkirk district of
burghs; there was also his own measure on the same
subject; and yet, after all, those various measures
afforded only additional proofs of the difficulties by
which these subjects were surrounded. ' Although he
estimated those difficulties very highly, .he could not say
that he was at all deterred from engaging with those
subjects; and he hoped that even early in the present
session he should be enabled to introduce to the House
a measure for the purpose of securing to improving te-
nants the fruits of their industry, and of the capital
which they might expend. It would be recollected by
Hon. Members, that in the course of the last year a
measure had been brought forward upon this subject—
it had 'been submitted to a Committee, and several
useful suggestions had been made; he hoped, there-
fore, that the Bill to be proposed this year would be a
decided improvemeat utn the former measure. In the
course of the speech which the House had that evening
heard from his Hon. Friend they had been told that the
state of uncertainty in which the people of Ireland were
placed paralyzed every effort of industry and enterprise.
He confessed that he could not assent to that statement,
for he did not at all see how voluntary arrangements
were to be prevented by any such means. His Hon.
Friend went on to say that it was the duty of Parlia-
ment to come in and define the tenant right of the north
at the same time his Hon. Friend could not but adm

the difficulty of legalizing any such iighi.--i;;Ti;
pert, he never distinctly understood what it was.

Mr. Lamont (we believe) had written a pamphlet on
the subject, and had made statements which pretty
clearly showed that it would be almost impos-
ble to reduco any account of it to algal definition.
There were several other subjects mentioned by his Hon.
Friend, but he hardly knew whether it would be neces-

sary for him to touch-upon them. Two of those subjects
were the reclamation of waste lands and the grout work
of arterial draining. They were both very important
subjects, but he must be permitted to say that the ques-
tion whether waste lands were to be improved on a large
scale by the Government was a question not now very
warmly entertained in Ireland. He hardly knew any
question that of late years had lost so much ground as
that of extensive reclamation of land in Ireland by the
Government. No doubt the industry of the country
was not sufficiently tasked. Every one knew that the
soil of Ireland was capable of maintaining a much more
numerous population than at present lived upon that
soil, but those statements might be perfectly true with-
out its necessarily following that alt the recommenda-
tions of his Hon. Friend should be carried into effect.
Having maple these few observations upon the speech of
his Hon. Friend he should now say a word or two with
respect to the measures which he himself intended to in-

troduce. He trusted that he should be able to propose
to the House a Bill to enable holders of renewable
leases to convert their holdings into tenacies in fee.
This measure he hoped to bring in early in the present
session. He also proposed to bring in a Bill for altering
the law relating to grand juries, land, having said thus
much, he hoped the house would be content, without

adopting any such resolution as his Hon. Friend had

proposed.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that the House
would not adopt anything so undefined till they could
have an opportunity of seeing what the Government in-
tended to do.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'FLAHELL ry expressed a hope that the mea-
sures promised by the Right lion. Baronet would be in-
troduced as soon as possible. He professed himself con-
ter it with the intimations which they had recoived from
the Goverment.

Mr. J. O'CONNELL agreed that they should wait to
see what the Government intended to do. If the lion.

Gimtletnan pressed his motion to a division he (Mr.
O'Connell) would vote for it; but *he recommended his
Hon. Friend to withdraw it, on the understanding that
the Ministry were pledged to bring in a Bill during the
present session to amend the laws effecting landlords and
tenant.

Lord BERNARD advised the Hon. Member for Roch-
dale to withdraw his resolution, for he believed that if it
were adopted by the House hopes would be excited in
Ireland which could never be realised. He considered
that

the wisest course Parliament could take

would ho to abstain from legislating with regard
to landlord and tenant ; for ho believed that, in
the case of the larger tenants, a mutual good

feeling between themselves and their landlords would

ulti►nately prevail, even where it might not already
exist; and with regard to the smaller tenants, whose
holdings were not large enough to enable them to support
their families, to give them a permanent tenure would be
to perpetuate misery and distress in Ireland. He would
recommend the Government to accede to a suggestion
which had recently been made to the Lord-Lieutenant,
and which had been made to that House some time since

by the late Lord Georg-Bentinck—to—affrrd assistance
to the railway companies in Ireland; for by so doing
they would afford 'employment to the people, and would
aid in developing the resources of the country. The
Secretary for Ireland had alluded to the subject of arte-
rial drainage. All that was required to carry out that
system was, that funds should be provided which, under
the present Act of Parliament, it was found difficult to
obtain. If the Government would only lend the money
upon. undoubted securit3 , the works which had
been already projected J.
might be instantly com-
menced. If encouragement was given to the
establishment of railway communication in Ireland,
the fisheries of that country might be made most
valuable and productive. He wished to call the
attention of the House and the Government to the fact,
that although a large seam had been voted by Parliament
some time since for the establishment and improvement
of piers and harbours, nearly two years had elapsed be-
fore any steps were' taken for erecting piers in those
places where they were most needed. With regard to
the poor-laws he should be glad if the Noble Lord
(Lord J. Russell) would explain whether he intended to

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'ollow out the report of tho Boundary Commission, and
o form new unions, leaving the temporary workhouses
o be occupied in those unions until funds were obtained
o build now houses, or whether the auxiliary work-
louses were to be taken into the present unions? He

also wished to know whether the Noble Lard concurred
with the Boundary Commissioners with respect to the
electoral divisions.—( Hear, hear.) He would recommend

.he Government to extend the jbjpets of the Land

provement Act, and to adopt measures for instructing
the people in. the science of agriculture. The position of
the great numbers of children in the poor-houses of Ire-
land was most distressing; and he would suggest that

CP •
steps should be taken for sending them to the colonies.
It was utterly impossible in Ireland to give out-door .re-
lief to the aged and infirm. In many unions, when there
was a prospect of out-door relief being given, suddenly,
as if the whole population had been at once paralysed,
those who the day before were well and healthy become

cliimants for relief. He urged the Government to state to
thR House what course they intended to pursue, in order
that the doubt and uncertainty which hung over every
part of Ireland might as soon as possible be removed.
M:. REYNOLDS thanked the Hon. Member for
)chd.,,l, for having originated the present discussion.
With respect to the cultivation .of waste lauds, he re-