The Sun.
London, England, 1831-09-10 00:00:00

fro be dragged into the discussion of a supposed murder
and massacre, when a Jury of twelve honest men had I
declared it to be no murder or massacre at all.
He would take it upon himself fearlessly to
repel the charge, and when Hon. Members talked of a
massacre, he would point their attention to what occured
at Wexford-bridge....-(Hear, hear.) He hoped Govern-
ment would never be misled by misrepresentations
of
the conduct of the yeomanry corps, so as to alter it from
what it at present was, unless, indeed, that alteration was
to put it upon a more substantial footing than it at
present existed. He should have felt himself unwork
of a seat in that House, if be bad sat still and heard 4e
aspersions that had been made maths yeomanry of Ireland
without vindicating their conduct.
Mr. O'CONNELL observed that the Hon. Member for
Dundalk had been good enough to favour the House with
his definition of what a massacre was, and where he
considered one had been committed; for his part, though
he could not but thank the Hon. Member for his ex-
planation—(A laugh)—yet he certainly very much wished
that that Hon. Member, who was the nominee of a cer-
tain Noble Lord, would interfere a little more with his own
country, and leave Ireland to those who had more right
than he had to interfere. The Hon. Member had
asked why Hon. Members continued to agitate the House
on this subject? In answer to that he would tell him that
the reason lie had done so was to put an end, if possible,
to the repetition of such outrages in future. If the Hon.
Member (Captain Gordon) thought that the arming of one
part of the population to massacre the other would put
down agitation, he was mistaken.—( Hear.) It was a libel on
the King's troops to say they created a jealousy when they
interfered to prevent disturbances; the King's troops were
very popular in Ireland. As an Irishman, whose love for
Ireland was not imported from another country—(A
laugh)—he was most willing to bear his proportion
of the expence in having an addition to the force
of the regular troops, if his Majesty's Ministers would but
allow the yeomanry :to return to that slumbering state
from which Lord Anglesea last year roused them. They
ought to be disbanded, and until they were, the blood that
was shed at Newtownbarry would spring up in the faces of
those who justified the yeomanry system.—( Hear.)
Mr. H. GRATTAN warmly contended that the yeo-
manry of Ireland was an improper force, and quoted
the evidence of several distinguished persons. The real
agitators of Ireland now were those who went to Ireland
from other countries, and paraded from village to village
disseminating their opinions ; but the people there would
be no longer deluded by such impostors. It wa.
idle to contend that the yeomanry ever had been necessary.
'I hey had been stigmatised by the bravest officers, and even
by Lord Anglesea himself.
Colonel ROCHFORD suggested, as a more satisfactory
course, and as one that would put an end to these discus-
sions, that the report of the proceedings taken before Mr.
Green, the King's Counsel, should be laid before the
House.
Mr. SHAW denied that he was either an Orangeman,
or a Papist, as had been attributed to him, and said that
he never belonged to any political club in Lis life. He bad
certainly presented a petition from some Roman Catholics,
but he did so because he conceived they had been ill-used.
He expressed his regret to bear a body of men like the
yeomanry maligned fur doing what they conceived to be
their duty, though unfortunately it was attended with a
sacrifice of life.
Sir .J. M. DOYLE had heard such contradictory state-
ments of different Irish Members, that he suggested as a
means of nacifying that country that a commission should be
appointed, consisting exclusively of Englishmen (that thee
might not be accused of partiality towards Ireland) un-
connected with party, to inquire into, and report upon, the
state of the yeomanry force. The result, lie would stake his
life upon it, would be, that the yeomanry force would
be considered a very inefficient force. The Hon. Member,
as a proof of the impropriety of employing such a force,
stated that some of his canvassers, during the last elec-
tiOn, were shot at by some of the yeomanry, and
one of them had his hat perforated with a bullet.
He also narrowly escaped being shot, and when he made
a complaint of such conduct, be was congratulated upon
Lis escape, and requested to say nothing further about it.
Mr. LAMBERT said, if he had spoken upon this sub-
ject boldly and freely, it was because he felt honestly.
Captain GORDON scorned the vituperation and cen-
sure of the Hon. Member fur Kerry. He counted bi-
prake censure, and his censure praise. He (Capt. Gor
don) had been taunted with his connection with a certain
borough, as the nominee of a Noble Lord. He would only
say this, that he would rather sit in that House as the
nominee of that Noble Lord's footman, than as the
nominee of the Noble Membtr for Newry.-(Hear, and
much laughter.)
Mr. O'CONNELL—That is quite a matter of taste.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

Mr. S. RICE moved that the sum of 27,5901. be
granted to defray the expenses of criminal prosecutions in
Irtland.—Aereed to.
Mr. S. RICE then moved that the usual sum be
granted to enable the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to issue
money in aid of schools and the advancement of education
in Ireland.

Mr. STANLEY said, that in the consideration of this
vote, the question of money sank into insignificence when
compared with the great political interests which were in-
volved in it. The grants of money which Parliament
Lad been in the habit of voting for the promotion of edu-
cation in Ireland had unfortunately excited great religious
animosity in that country, owing to the manner in which
it had been apiied. The Kildare-street Society had re-
cently attracted more than an ordinary share of attention
in Ireland. This Society was established on this princi-
ple—that without trenching on the doctrines of any
particu'ar creed, the Scriptures should be read by the
pupils in all the Society's schools. Nothing could ap-
pear more reasonable, fair, and liberal, than this prin-
ciple, to Protestants to whom the Scriptures were the
only rule of faith ; but at the same time, no system pro-
fessing equality could be better calculated to exclude
Catholics from these schools who do not admit the Holy
Scriptures to be an infallible guide, without the interpre-
tation of the authorities of the church. The experiment
of the Society's schools bad been tried to a great extent,
and failed. The blame of failure was not to be
attributed so much to the Society, which laid down

an improper rule for its own conduct, as to the
Government which adopted a system of public edu-
cation which was by its leading principle unfitted j
for the purpose it was intended to effect. The number
of schools belonging to the Kildare-street Society had
increased to a great extent. In 1816 there were no ,
schools belonging to the Society; in 1817 there were eight
schools and 557 pupils. The Society had gone on gradu-
ally extending its operations under the vote of the House
of Commons (which was originally 6,0001., but had then
increased to 25,0001. within the last few years) until, in
1830, the number of schools was 1,634, and of its scho-
lars 132,573. He could not deny, that in consequence of
the exertions of the Society, the benefit of education bad
been extended to many persons who otherwise would never
have enjoyed it ; but it was his duty as a member of the
Government, charged with the peace and welfare of Ire-
land, to inquire whether education had been equally and
fairly distributed between Catholics and Protestants?
(Hear, bear.) The Society said that the number of Ca-
tholic pupils in their schools, Jr anything, exceeded the
number of Protestant pupils. That, however, was not
sufficient for him. It was necessary to inquire what pro..
portion the Catholic bore to the Protestant population.
The number of Catholics to Protestants in Ireland was at
least six to one. It was not enough, therefore, to show,
that as many Catholics as Protestants were educated at the
Society's schools. He found that it was io the Protestant
part of Ireland only that the exertions of the Eildare-
street Society had met with corresponding support on the
part of the people. It appeared that out of 1620 schools
at present on the Society's list, no fewer than 1,021, about
two-thirds of the whole number, were established in the
single province of Protestant Ulster. In Leinster there j
were 227, in Connaught 112, and in Munster 240. The
same disproportion was observable with respect to pupils.
In Ulster there were 84,896 pupils ; in Leinster 22,000:
in Connaught 11,000 ; and in Monster 16,000. The
gratuities paid to masters amounted in Ulster to 1,303/. ;
is Leinster to 3,661/. ; in Connaught to 150/. ; and in
Munster to 2851. Thus it appeared that the Catholic pro-
vinces of Leinstet, Connaught, and Munster, which stood
most in need of education, obtained only one-third of the
patronage of-the Society, whilst Protestant Ulster, which
least needed it, engrossed two thirds of it, Catholics did
not refuse to attend the Society's schools from aug indiffer-
ence to the advantages of education, but only because t.Le
reading of the Bible without note or comment was repug-
nant to the principles of their religion. It had Leen as-
serted that Catholics did. not wish their children to read
the Scriptures at all. This assertion had been indignantly
contradicted by Dr. Doyle, in the evidence which he had
given before a Committee of the Howie. The Kildare-
street Society only proposed that the children educated
at its schools should read a chapter in the Scriptures on
certain days in the
Could that be considered suf-
ficient for a religious education ? It wao the wish of
Government to connect religioo with moral education.
Ile fully admitted all the moral and political
_lffdvuasinotnageosf
which might be expected to accrue from the d
Education amongst the great body of the people, but
the question. was, whether this S ocie advanced the in-
kretts which it was established for the special purposes