The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-25 00:00:00

. And adopt a tout IA ems 0 ' o If ail the
uuder.tanding and virtue of Patti amentelten woodinea td
' themselves ? The Govereisent.elemiejWldsi kande of the
•e 4eopie, and olie,hoped they erenidAtillitibeeeinte a balder
roue, and act witlietorenewty. if leithieg . dee would
doe they ought tonieet at tee an the neareitsgos4C6eers.)
,' Lord ALTHORP said, thisterith retire"' t 9 the motion.
..- of the Hen. and Gallant Mier .oppente, it had been die-
': cussed in principle, and divided before; aid eil he had set
'• 'gout with saying that be hoped for es coullderable minority
•
at lettet,'•he'(Lord A.) trade& that soup ea the Hon. and
.Galladttloloter found that his summit wield be inconsi-
. derable; be would withdrair lei* neettba. The object was
the same as that of the former modes; and it was scarcely
to be expected that the House liquid pew be prevailed on
to give it their sanction, delteeillly edliie dm debate of last
-night, whi6h showed ao_elearly as *Ain mold, the mis-
chievous effects of giving •the frinebiee to forty-shilling
'freeholders is large townie; tad in Audi towns the ease
would be still worse; ifar .ene.-ir two ludividttals could
easily command their suffrages inrush afranindenees. lie
fully agreed with those Who tiseughi, *befit was sot at all
desirable to annex coanty•distriets to.,Aoglis; and that
was a course, is the framing et the • which bad not
been resorted ti iseey ease whireis it WHIM be avoided.
The persons living near a berew#l4 ankilielle Jiving Within
it, were not opposed in interest.* w ill*. The trades-
people were employed byllio neiglldehriteg Veneers, and it
might naturally be pressurised tbell their sentiments and
feelings were in unison ; sail sled tblirits Would return, in
most instances, persons attackid to ttm leilded interest.
When the Hon. and Gallant Illembrt opposite spoke of
there being as militias ninety ' _ Ilthete„.
_tveters would
be taken from the sdjoieing .10 Attq. cexagge-
rated—he tripled the atnoent. ' Weis hardly fair to argue
cafes of that kind upon terweittegimie end to adept the ex-
ception as the rule.
• e .r.,
Sir E. SUGDErtivila 1101114Aillto slit ' !instead of
producing the effect WV" •faiiimibi,.Lied At' anticl:.
!instead
peed, would-have
,a mit enditillitgetAted . 'He did
not know that he ;ad
abort. illelitirttlidis 1101• to difide
the Committee on the : 'lliallff "Isn proposed;
le but he nevertheless Lee& ' 'be adop4d ;
semerseegh.
and if the Gallant lasoliolr
the question toe Mb*, •' '111:3: vote in
favour of it: • L.; • -
Mr. C. FERGUS* *mot • - .OW-dent
which 12edbein -proppsfdrwels• ie. j i . . . •, - and
hi' shoiiidleive it hinuneeperteils - , • . spit it es the
, 4 '
mein!' of •affordinflelletiseile_ . ..* k • .., . of the
' Noble Marquis whiellifidlites - *046 a piets even-
= ing, and which was adiellead • • amosb"--weight
into the countyrepriieentitA4.:' 'Yr : -'
Lord J. RUSSELL 10414 , illee,oocl of the
amendment would be niheideeptitai,, •It:leetfal not, in
his opinion, even afford the . .of-seallefing the
voters of boroughi;whielt.wielln ...
_ ,'. We should,
therefore, decidedly apron it ; mid ' nen readily, be-
eaus; it appeared to hoes selettlaied to give ties to such
. abuses as these 'of' which they had led II Specimen the
previous evening in this Debris saw -„'
Mr. CROKEIt thmight the quells' might be very
Inateriany narrowed ; ter ibilitli elsom,ts amended and
agreed to on Saturday, neifilled fir the most part to meet
the amendment of the Gallittindeeiber. •
Lord ALTHORP tree' ifftsulosog time inaudible in the
gallery ; but we undeolUdfdliiie of oho oltitratione of the
Noble Lord to be •to the moot, that ens of the results of
this amendment, went 4 be es divide freeholds in towns
into freeholds of inlieritanee al 'tarty shillings fedi, the
effect of which would be to airs them greeter insight int
a borough, though in I ceaaty that weight woaldhally
be perceived. '
Mr. PRAED thought Wei theComilitios had not been
fairly treated, in the way is irbk•is this amendment had
either been introduced or mole. 'The prieeiple of the Bill
teas that of separating the Nell from tie eenatiee ; and
it was for this reason that Ilenteiseeter aid ether large towns
were to have their own repreemeadres. This amendment
would go in furthereeee of thaipeinciple; and he thought
it more desirable, as it "'NA be the effanotaetering in-
fluence that would produce the etweemeetessiy, as was the
ease in France.
Mr. MABERLY had observed with esrpriee, that his
Hon, and Galant Friend hod, odor tile division, waited
some c,.nsiderable time, till cottoln jgentlemes who gave
the proceedings of .that Holm •Ws'nfie .potolie the next
morning had taken their eilitp!`4.o.,rlteir,,- 11111,.) And he
was the more surprised at itelefeenee th declaration which
his Hon. Friend bad mede,inte",iidialseed to injure the
measure, if be cOuldpemiaadeolieitiblin le believe that the
Members on the Ministerialiade iP OA Home had changed
their opinion.. He (Ht.llllhirly), however, (Untied that
they had changed their ?opinions, mid he begged to refer to
their votes in proef Of that, clenial....(Heae,lear.) He
did not intend to atesie ether lies. teistilespen who had
spoken fifty times, and bad repealed the.eamit things three
or four times in each of those fifty speeches, 'flowing done
so with a view to delay; indeed, ef coarse, Ito mut admit
• that they had a right to stake se prosy &poetics as they
pleased ; but at the same time it slit bees well to observe
that such a course (lid
.TlOl very w shit with 'the conve-
bieuce of the House....(Heir, helve del i 1190.)
Mr. WEYLAND would stipplet thinsdien of Ike Gal-
lant Colonel, because, if it were est ostried, the counties
would be sluiced with vetera'fieentilte Worm of tie lowest
.lasses, and the Members of the cttoiElm Weald so longer
represent the agricultural intents% or Ostend to the business
~ .
of the county.
Colonel SlB'f HORPE Mod it hit .bonades duty to
vote for the motion of the Gellert Colietel. The Gallant
Colonel being interrupted, said he thew • that there was
always a difficulty in obtaining a kakis" for him, because
he always thrust it home. Ite believed that the Hon.
Gentlemen opposite did net like to bow him, beeatise he
generally touched them oa the raw, air hid been said by
the Fest Lord of the Admiralty...-(Climeion, queetion.)
The lion. Member alse'objeeted to the dependence of
e. Woolwich, Chatham, and Plymouth, et giving the Go•
-e vernment an influence it ought not topmease..--(Qnestion,
-: question.) He opposed the Bill; andlestald eppose it.
Mr. SADLER called the attention's, Ministers to the
fact that the towns in question 'afforded a coastitneacy to
•' the counties, more than ie sapped 14 the agricultural
population, of two to one. He'irished. stew voters to be
confined to the towns with whiedo dui Imre oanneeted.
Mr HUNT said, the freeholders of ' the towns had
always bad votes for the ciantier ; and therefore they
could not overwhelm them sow, particalerly as is the
counties the copyholders and lespeitoldeme hod bees added
to the freeholders.
Colonel DAVIES replied, and denied that he wee hos-
tile to the Bill. He was hostile le it diets, aid he was
anxious to make it as perfect es pereiblee If the Ministers
had brought in a Bill only to disbelief* the hereughs,
and to enfranchise the large tetras, they !eight have been
sure to carry a Bill of that kind, mid ill the minor points
might be discussed it leisure.
After a few words from
.r.cdoisel itewratoatos, which
were delivered amidst loud or* et " Quin's," the gal-
lery was cleared for a division. After she gallery was
t . cleared, the Members tontines& doe debate bre nearly half
:-..,an hour, and then divided... •,
• •
-:.102 , For the motion
Against it ......... ............ .....4.4.....44.« =
l'..iti Majority against Colollal 0 meti0n.......-89
We understand that while evescxelnded, and
after the division on Colonel ( ittnesament, that
474.0.
" Hon. Member stated, that '' .cf the,Com-
rnittee to be decidedly spied' " , which was one
of a series of measures hounded ife omen tio **roughs a
1 constituency within their limits, lo Ewan Rot bring for-
ward his proposition for Wadley, fs wrists epees, the
right of voting to the ocelpiees sporesoproSs rept of 5/.
On our re-admission to' the gelflefp, 103 felted the
CHAIRMAN reading the twitistielliks lkllitil up the va-
rious blank* in clause 21. Thasowilmistiess were agreed
to without opposition; hat en the got/dent " That the
• occupier of any house, aseeeled to dm date. es inhabited
• houses, upon aye irly value of ant logs tau 101., or of the
clear yearly value of not he. that POI., et rated to the
relief of the poor apes • Featly *One of net lees than
101., or bona fide liable to a yearly forit# Pot Ira than
10/., shall-have a right to tote' c"' • '
Sir E. SUGDEN called theattiesiiii of the Noble Lord
t, to the very objectionable Wordlist a me important a part
of the Bill. As the clause now- wed, there were four
different methods of ascertaining the fact of qualibeation—
namely, assessment to the inhabited home duty at a yearly
value of ten pounds, or rated es the relief of the poor—or
~ of the clear yearly value or liable to a root of ten pounds.
Now he need not tell the !!fable Lord, or as; Hydrate,
thow much diff.culty was Aso eoperiotoad at Quarter ' Ses-
sions in ascertaining the pond of the *lee of a tenement
for the purpose of aseemmett, aid bow much it was in
the power of the owner t Wag seiebooo to prove his
tenement to be worth eine Or lets, imording to the object
he wished to effect. It weed be eamedingly desirable to
ascertain what was the pretties object of the framers of the
' Bill with respect to this dense, eaderfoother they intended
to give the franchise to one Ow, or % all ele,..emes
corn_
prised in the clause. PG, big PlllO. b. *o:6llh_
.t itbi worded
in a manner both contated'olia highly
a_eroodbojeetffisitaank:e:ny,esbaarrnldy_
that with respect to that Pot Is the
' value—it would give ride to fleergo,
•
rasement, and imposition.
._
11if 661 it Was
Lord ALTHORP had rep__ ..
eflY °b4ll
the intention of Government i gin fixf --"----"" 4.11
the householders inborough*, *We butolielite Wei" to
re of the
yearly value of ten poandu; *4 he ors* ley, dab 0 tire

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