The Sun.
London, England, 1836-05-02 00:00:00

STAMP DUTIES.

Sir GEORGE CLERK gave notice that he should in the
Committee on the Stamp Duties Bill move that the duty upon
the certificates taken out by the writers to the Signet should
be reduced to the same scale as the duty upon the certificates
taken out by attornies practising in other parts of the United

Kingdom.
Lord ASHLEY wished to know from the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the President of the Board of Trade, what day would
be fixed for the discussion on the Stamp Duties' Bill. There
were several parties kept in town anxiously waiting the termi-
nation of the matter, and it was most desirable that it should
be brought on for discussion as speedily as possible.
Mr. R THOMPSON quite agreed with his Noble Friend
in what he had just stated. There had been other business of
importance which had been necessary to bring forward. The
discussion had stood for Friday, but he believed that night
had been fixed for the Budget, and he thought he might safely
say that the Stamp Duties Bill is to be brought forward on
Monday next.
REGISTRATION OF VOTERS BILL.
In reply to a question from Lord GRANVILLE
SOMERSET,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that on Monday next he
would be able to state when it would be convenient to take the
Report into consideration.
CHURCH RATES.
Lord STANLEY begged to ask the Noble Lord whether
it was his intention to bring in any measure, on the subject of
Church rates, during the present session. He had that morn-
ing received a letter from a parish in Lancashire, stating
that the parish church was falling into decay, and that they
were unable to repair it without mortgaging the rates. lf,
therefore, the Noble Lord intended to introduce any measure,
he begged to know whether the payment of such securities
would be provided for.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL hoped to have been able to bring
forward a measure on the subject to which the question of the
Noble • Lord referred during the present session. The
former Bill was objected to on the ground that the House
was not in possession of sufficient information on the
subject of Church property. Some were of opinion that
the revenues of the church were sufficient to provide for the
payment of church-rates. He certainly did not agree in that
opinion, but he thought the recommendation contained in the
report of the Commissioners deserving of serious consideration.
Because if the House agreed with him that the revenues of
the Church of England were sufficient for the religious in-
struction of the people of that country, then he would make
that the ground-work of the measure. It had likewise been
his duty to propose two measures for the relief of the Dis-
senters, one relative to registration, and the other to manages,
and he considered that it would be very inefficient and useless
for Parliament to settle the question of Church-rates,
unless the House was prepared to settle these questions of re-
gistration and marriages. Therefore his (Lord J. Russell's)
answer to his Noble Friend's question was, that he did intend
bringing forward during the present Session the question of
Church-rates; but it dpended upon the House agreeing in
the opinion he entertained, that the present Church revenues,
from the Report of the Church Commission, were sufficient for
the education of the people of that country, and on the dispo-
sition of Parliament to relieve the most pressing and proms.
r.ent grievances of the Dissenters. He believe it was not
necessary for him to say more.
COMMUTATION OF TITHES (ENGLAND.)
The NOBLE LORD then moved the Order of the Day for
the further consideration of the report on the Tithe Commu-
tation Bill,
Sir G. SINCLAIR did not rise for the purpose of opposing
the motion of the Noble Lord; but he complained of the
conduce of Ministers in considering the Irish and En-
glish Church as separate establishments, and legislating
for them upon different principles.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
Considering the way in which the two establishments were
connected, it would have been much more manly if the Go-
vernment had brought forward the Irish Bill at the commence-
ment of the Session, in order to see if the House of Commons
would agree to such a measure. He trusted if such was the
case they would have it thrown out in another place.
Lord EBRINGTON begged to have the opportunity of
presenting some petitions against the Bill before the Speaker
left the cair. The Noble Lord then presented two pe-
titions from parishes in Devon against the Bill. Petitions
with a similar prayer, were presented by Mr. CAYLEY and Mr.
Beamiee ; the latter Hon. Gentleman's came from parishes in
the county of Cumberland, and they stated that the tithes
there were paid in kind, before 1797, when the parishes took
them into their own hands for seven years, when the im-
' provement in the land was very visible.—( Hear, hear.)
They allotted the tithes among themselves, and the plan worked
so well that they prayed they might not be obliged to take any
other. The Hon. Gentleman also presented a petition from
Mr. Davenport, late a Member of that House, stating that from
the unprofitable nature of the wheat upon poor lands, his te-
nantry had put most of his lands into grass, so that the Bill
as it at present stood, would double his tithes. He therefore
prayed that the Commissioners might have power to consider
such cases.
Mr. PARROTT wished to address a few words to the
House, and more especially to the Noble Lord who brought in
the Bill. It appeared to him that upon a question of' such vast
importance they were about to legislate without sufficient in-
formation. He trusted the Noble Lord would allow a
Commission to be appointed in the first place, to enquire
into the state of all tithes and the practice of tithing
in different counties, and when that was done there was no
doubt they would have sufficient information. He must say
the Noble Lord's Bill would be a most cruel Bill to thousands
of people in this country. It was not his intention
to divide the House, but if the Noble Lord should perceive a
general feeling among the House in favour of the proposition
he was about to submit, he trusted the Noble Lord would give
in, because he was quite satisfied that if the Bill was carried
into effect, in the way proposed by its originators, it would
raise the tithe, at least in his own county, from ten to twenty
or thirty per cent., in many cases higher than it was at pre-
sent.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He believed the same thing
would take place in Cornwall. These were not sma 1 districts,
and lie would tell the Noble Lord that when a system was
proposed that should in any large district or county raise the
tithe beyond its present amount, that that would he considered
as a grievous injury on the tithe-payers of that county. The
county with which he was connected was in the most complete
ferment upon this Bill.—( Cry of no ) With great deference to
the Hon. Member for Barnstable, he was bound to say that
that was the case, for he had had forty-seven petitions sent
to him, to present on this subject.—( Hear, hear.)
He entreated the Noble Lord to issue a Commission to inquire
into the subject. He assured him he did not not take this
course through any hostility to the present Ministry. On the
contrary, he wished to avert all opposition from them.
but if he Versevered as was proposed, it would have the effect
of driving every Whig who supported them out of Parliament.
An Hos. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, declared
his approbation of the Bill; and stated the wish of his consti-
tuents to have the measure settled during the present Session,
because if any delay took place they must come to the same
condition in which the Irish tithe question stood at present.
Mr. HUME had on a former evening stated his objections
to the Bill before the House. Ile did not know if the Noble
Lord had taken them into consideration. He was convinced
that the value of land was considerably increased by the present
state of the Corn Laws, and as the people generally looked
forward to the abolition of these laws, he feared unless a
fixed value was put upon the tithes below that pro-
posed, they would be sacrificing the interests of the landed
gentry.—( Hear, hear.) The more he reflected, the more
he was convinced that there could be no fair settlement of the
tithe question until the Corn Laws were repealed. The
Noble Lord would find difficulties as he' advanced, and that by
the proposed enactment they would be fixing a tax of 40 per
cent. on the landed interest of the country.
Mr. B LAM IRE thought the Corn Laws had nothing to do
with the question. In a parish in his neighbourhood, in the
year 1771, the tithes were commuted for a fixed corn rent, and
the rector received in that year only 2/. more than in the present.
The price of wheat was then 4s. 6d. a bushel, Winchester
measure, and the average for the last two years was 4s. 6ad.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee, Mr. BER.
NA I, in the Chair.
Upon clause one being put,
Lord J. RUSSELL said his wish was that the Bill should
be gone through e!ause by clause, and he would listen
with atttention to any alterations which hon. members might
suggest, and gladly adopt them, if he conceived them calcu-
lated to improve the Bill.
Mr. PEMBERTON said he had carefully perused the
Bill, as amended by the Noble Lord, and had compared it
carefully with the former Bill, from which it differed most
materially. When this Bill was formerly under discussion,