The Sun.
London, England, 1849-06-06 00:00:00

1849.

ceded to the people, had there been any alarm?
No! On the contrary, the returns at recent elections
sho eed a preponderance of the Conservative party.
Though the psople of these countries had been up to the
time when they were end 'wed with the right unaccus-
tomed to popular institutions, they had exercised the
right, to speak justly of them, in the
most praiseworthy manner. The Noble Lord
was the first to cheer his interrogatory. Look
at the result ? Why, if he looked to the condition
of Prussia, of Vienna, he could not fail to be struck
with the result of the conduct of the " dear
darling Sovereigns," who, after taking solemn
oaths on the altars of their country, to concede reform
to the people, openly broke those solemn asseverations.
These were the parties against whom the Noble Lord
should direct his complaints and taunts, and not the
people who had been outraged, and who had no
interest at heart beyond that of the) whole mass of the
population. Of late, however, he had not heard the ar-
gument broached that the people could not be trusted
with the unlimited exercise of the suffrage.—(Hear,
hear.) Indeed they were obliged to arm against the
people to awe them from arising in their might, and de-
manding their rights in a way which could not be
refused.—(Hear, hear) He looked with deep regret
upon this, because he recollected the days when
the Kings of this country could trust the
preservation of the peace of the country to the keeping
of their own pe ple, and the peace was in those
days preserved by such means. He recollected the
time when the military was kept up to pru-
tect the country from foreign invasion, and when
garrisons in other lands were simply kept up to protect
places likely to be attacked by foreigners, when the
only display made by the military were recruiting par-
ties; when the expenditure in respect of the military
establishments was from 25,0001. to 26.000/, and when the
Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston), when Secretary at War
(as we understood), stated before a Committee that he
only required military for foreign countries, and that he
was content to trust the preservation of the peace to the
people. Instead of the Government adopting
means whereby they might repose in the
affections and respect of the people, they adopted coercive
and harsh measures. In 1792, Mr. Pitt, who was then in
power, studied economy in the government of the State;
the military cost but 25,0001., and the whole expense ot
the Civil Government was limited to 12,000/. or 13,0001.
They had then very few barracks; now there were bar-
racks in almost every town. Last year, for instance,
100,0001. was spent in building barracks at Preston,
because they feared that the people would rise, and the
whole country was covered with barracks— not to
attack our enemies abroad, but to coerce and keep down
the people at home. They had, for instance, twenty
barracks scattered throughout the country, for no other
purpose than the one he had stated. lle appealed to the
House, then, to protect the commonweal, which would
effect far more than bristling bayonets and pointed
artillery. What was it done for ? From the
fear of reform. He admitted that there were ardent
and wild Reformers, but because there were was no
reason against their taking the claims of the people into
consideration. In 1792 the taxation was 16,000,0001., now
it was 60,000,0001., so that it had been quadrupled. The
debt had been increased from the beginning of the war,
from 230,000,0001. to 800,000,0001. He did not blame
any one, but he declared this lay upon the oligarchy, who
dreaded the spread of democratic principles, which drove
them to a war against France, and brought that enor-
mous burden upon the people, which, unless
some relief was given, must press them down. When
men were well employed and well fed, matters progressed,
and things went on well; but let a change take place,
and then the convulsion came. Why not, then, take this
opportunity, and prevent such catastrophes by checking
the extravagant expenditure of the State. He appealed
to lion. Gentlemen who represented counties, and par-
ticularly those in the south, where men and their fami-
lies were subsisting upon 7s. and Bs. per week, to join him
in the reform movement. If they were true Conservatives
they would do so at once, for nothing could preserve the
institutions of the country so much as timely concessions
and wise changes.—(Hear.) He regretted that he wad not
in the House the other night when the miscellaneous
estimates were under consideration, for then he should
have had an opportunity of attacking the civil list, which
was one great cause of the enormous increase which had
of late years taken place in the burdens of the country.
The course, however, he was disposed to take upon that
subject was to make an appeal to the Sovereign ;
he would ask the House to address her
Majesty on the subject, and say to her—
" We granted you the civil list, but let us see in what
way it is expended." Let them set an example by
making reductions at the fountejn head. In the
extravagant reign of George IV. the civil
list was increased to an enormous amount,
but at his death, and on the succession
of William IV., the matter was referred to a e'elect
Committee, and the civil list fixed at 385,000/ Now,
he thought it due to her Majesty to state, that out of all
that sum, only 60,000/. was at her own disposal. The re-
maining 325,0001. was spent by the Lord Chancellor, the
Lord Chamberlain, the Lord Steward, and the Master of
the Horse. No doubt many of the servants of the Palace
were maintained out of it, but he believed many of those
servants were my Lord This and my Lady That, who had
only duties to attend about once in two or three months.
This was not the way to spend the money of the
country ; and therefore, without interfering with
the votes of the foreign or other departments,
in the first instance let them rather address her Majesty
on the subject. Let them remind her that this was not
a fit state of things, while the eye, passing along the
unions of England, Scotland, end Ireland, would
find four millions of people in an absolute
state of destitution. In such a state of things
there ought not to be expenditure of 320,000/. in keep-
ing a system of tawdry finery. A more simple style of
living would better become the Sovereign while
there was so much suffering in the country.—
(Hear.) The ether night he was at the
Lord Mayor's dinner, where he met the ambassador
of Constantinople, and an excellent friend of his who had
been appointed to go to the United States as the repre-
sentative of this country, but he declared he was almost
afraid to speak to them, as he could only do so through
the instrumentality of tawdry-laced footmen.—(A laugh.)
And so it was with the Ministers of State, who never
went out without the attendance ot tawdrily dressed
footmen, whose general appearance only served to please
and excite the admiration of children.—(A laugh.)
He did not consider the sum of 60,000/. at the private
disposal of the Queen too much, considering the
calls that were made upon her charity—(Hear,
hear) but when he saw how the other
establishments of the Court were kept up, the gold
lace and tinsel that was frittered away from the
pockets of the people, he thought the time was
come when they ought to have a House
of Commons who would address her Majesty on the
subject of such useless and wasteful expenditure. He
would, therefore, begin at the head, and in saying
that he was sure that her Majesty would be
the first to say that her people ought not to he so un-
necessarily pressed upon, and that she would willingly
yield to the suggestion of the House of Commons. Now,
as a proof of what might be done, if only properly
attempted, he would say, look at Belgium. When mat-
ters were represented in the proper quarter there,
the franchise was extended immediately, and every
public officer reduced his salary one third towards the
urgency of the State. Look again at the case of the
present King of Wurtemburg, whose father was over
head and ears in debt. When the present King
ascended the throne be reduced his establishments
one-half, and for which he obtained the love and affec-
tion of all his subjects. He thought the time had now
come when similar steps should be adopted in England,
and for that purpose he asked that the House of
Commons should be made the real representative of the
people.—(lleart hear.) Unless they changed the pre-
sent system of the House of Commons, no good could
be done.—(clear, hear.) The present House might
be seized with fits of economy, but they would
not be permanent.—(Hear, hear.) The change of the
system of election was the only way to make things
permanent in this country.—(Hear.) He longed to
see that state of things return to this country which
existed in the time of Elizabeth, who, when asked where
were her troops, answered that her troops were her sub-
jects.—(Hear, hear.) He contended that Parliament
did not represent the different communities
that existed its this country, and if Parliament would
only allow him to bring in the Bill, the details
might be settled afterwards. There was a d,ffi-
culty even among his own friends to find,
those that would agree with every measure that he pro-
posed—(Laughter)---but if the House would allow him
to bring in the Bill he would endeavour to modify his
views to meet the wishes of ell parties.—(Hear, hear.)
If the people were to have a share in the representation
of the country, they ought to have it effictually. If they
were to do justice to the people they must extend the
suffrage.—(Hear, hear.) Every man that had a house
over his head ought to have a voice in the representa-
tion in that House.—(Hear, hear.) But while he
was anxious to extend and bring within the
pale of the Constitution those who ought to have a vote, he thought they ought to have the opportunity of voting
secretly, namely, by the ballot.—(Hear, hear.) Having
stated what his view of the constitution was, he would
not read the opinions expressed by the Noble Lord below
him (Lord J. Russell), which of late years he seemed to
have thrown to the winds; nor to what fell from Eerl Gree ,
when he introduced the Reform Bill; and he would only
say that he was one of those who supported him with
great enthusiasm, and raised the cry, " The Bill, the
whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill."—(Hear.) Al-
though he would not, as he had said, read the Noble
Lord's (Lord John Russell's) speech, be would
just state that the Noble Lord said every man under our
constitution was considered to be represented in the
House of Commons; that he was considered to have
a share in the election of those who made
laws affecting his life and property, and,
therefore, he recommended a reform, certainly
not to the extent he (Mr. Hume) wished to go; but the
principle argued by the Noble Lord went to show that
what he proposed was right. There was one view in
which ho thought the question ought to be sub-
mitted to the House—viz., that things were not
remaining stationary, and that materials were
being collected which must explode unless some timely
remedy was adopted. The population of the country in
round numbers amounted to about twenty millions; there
were three millions of adults, and yet the number of
electors only amounted to 826,000 ; but of the eight
millions of the people of Ireland there were only
40,000 electors. From the returns of 1836, it appeared
there was only one elector to 5i male adults; and since
then the population had increased, and the relative num-
bers might now be taken at one elector to ten adults.
The increase was not in the agricultural but in the ma-
nufacturing districts, where the people were, from their
intelligence, more capable of exercising the franchise.
In no disturbance that had taken place had the working
classes of this country shown any disposition to plunder
the property of their superiors—they had innumerable
examples to thO contrary; Auld would the ,House refuse

to those men, what had been given to the
very Lazzaron. of Italy ? What did the
inequality consist in? He had made a comparison be-
twe n the great and small constituencies. He had taken
16 boroughs containing a population of 2;917,000, being
one-half of the whole borough population of Englund.
Those 16 boroughs returned 32 Members. He wished
the House to compare them with 23 small boroughs, where
there were only 100,000 inhabitants, and yet they
returned as many Members as that immense population
in the former 16 boroughs.—(Hear, hear.) Now, Wild
any man say that was a fair participation in the elective
franchise, to which all were entitled by the con'
stitution?—(Hear, hear.) He asked a Lair partici'
petion nut as a favour, but as a constitutional right•
Would any man place himself in the situation
of any one of those who were deprived of those rights,
and see how he would act, if he was compelled to re:
main in that situation. What were the consequences of
the struggle ? Why the Chartists ; and they even took
alarm.—(Laughter.) Was it not time to put se
end to that state of things. He found there were 85
different kinds of qualification for the electors of this
country, from potwallopers to ten-pounders. Did 11s
that lead to enormous expense, trouble, delay, ail
complexity beyond anything that could be conceived ,
330 out of the 658 Members of which the House cons
sisted represented 3,127,000, and 328, 23,817,000. The
larger numb r, or the majority, showed that on the o'er;
age each Member represented 9,500 electors, and that ese'
of the minority represented 73,000 voters. Now this
was called the people's House. Was any man se
brazenfaced as to contend, that it really was what it tve;
styled?—(Laughter.) The aristocracy had one House°
their own, and he saw no reason why they should possess
that House also. Under the present system they, hl;
ever, possessed that House also.—(Hear, hear.) Wes
likely, when they put so many out of their doors":
only admitting one out of every eight, that either
property or the Crown could continue to ""
respected? Ot what class did those consist of whom
they excluded. Many of the aristocracy favoured
the establishment of baths, washhouses,"and
lodging-houses, but he found that they wet.".
the very persons who would not admit then
within the portals of the constitution, and raise them to
the social scale. Give them their rights and they would
work out their own redemption. The Honourable
Member then referred to a speech delivered
f
by Lord Ashley on the presentation
prizes for essays on the Sabbath, in which De
much complimented the ability and morality of 0
working classes. Yet that Noble Lord would
not give the people those rights which would
enable them to accomplish all this for themselves, be'
cause it would enable them to direct and feel an interest
in the welfare of the country, elevating them, therefore,
in the social scale. Having then shown the elective
franchise to be the right of the working classes, the
question came to be in what mode ought the suffrage t°
be extended so as best to reach and be rendered avails.
ble to those classes. On this head many plans nrer°
issued. Some thought population ought to be the baste
of the suffrage; others that property ought to be so.
Some, again, thought that education ought to be the
basis, while others were for household suffrage. fie/ .
anxious to know how far a suffrage founded on pelli;
lion would infringe upon the rights of property, and
found, from a table which had been carefully prepari
by gentlemen residing in Leeds and Manchester, WI
were property taken as the basis of their representation,
England, Scotland, and Wales would return 553 Me',
bers to Parliament, and that were population taken they
would return about the same number. To take pope's.
tion as the basis, England would return 455 Members;
Scotland 76, and Wales 22, and to take property as 1,11,
basis, England would return 450 Members, Scotland
and Wales 32.—(Hear, hear.) It was, therefore, the
same thing whether they took population or property e;
the basis, but population being the easiest, he should h
inclined to submit to it. He was aware that many goo.
Gentlemen had considerable apprehensions as tb
manner in which he intended to form electoral able
tricts, but he had no hesitation in saying that what e
intended to do would not be attended with the least CO.°;
fusion. All he wanted to do was, better to apnerti;s
those districts, to class different towns together, so th
they might join in returning a representative or repre,e.
sentatives between them, conformably to the populatled
That had been already done to some extent in Scalise:,
for the district he represented had five boroughs ee
fleeted with it. No difficulty would, therefore, be We
'd
in doing the same with other places. He considered,
therefore, that there was no ground for doubt or aPPrbe
hension on that point, and at the proper time, were
0,
allowed to bring in a Bill on the subject, he would Pia
duce a scale in which these districts were minutely
to e'
carefully arranged, and which, if adopted, would secure
the return of Members to that House in strict prolVrtin
he
to the number of the population. He had beside blue h
actual extent which in France and other countries sue
extension had been made without any risk, but they has
an example in Scotland of how the division of district
had operated, and these details he would not go ill.. t 0
Having, therefore, shown that it was necessary to ess%
tend the franchise, and that to insure the free exercre
of that franchise, the ballot was also necessary,4o
thought the measure would be altogether incoroPi_c.,a
without an equalisation of electoral districts, she
for those reforms he appealed to the justice of :00
House. He thought no one could deny the justice olio
reasonable a proposition. lie might be asked, as
asked
Noble Lord at the head of the Government was as',,,o
when he introduced a measure to repeal the navigatt,
laws—" Where are your petitions in favour of sue Pis
measure ?" In answer the Noble Lord said, and troll
said, that it was the duty of the Minister to propose visit
measures he thought proper for the good of tho countrr
whether there were petitions calling for them or Ot'
and although he would not exactly give the same answer
yet he would say, that while last year petitions innulps:
rable had been presented to the House in favour of.;
similar motion he then made, men had begun to see Lb!,
it was useless to petition a tribunal which paid no situp
tion to them; and, therefore, they had refrained fwep
petitioning e n this occasion. But he would impress
Government and the House the danger of allowing tile,
feelirg to gain strength in the country, and looking to.ros
!lament simply as a means by which good Uev„eaht
ment could be secured the country, he th,h,""to
they were bound to do what they eall"„00.
improve that Parliament, and render it 'trie
sonant with the wishes and feelings of the eehn the
Did, then, that House at present faithfully representtio
country? He said, no. It might represent ores'
classes and certain interests, but the country in go, to
it did not represent. Under the old system,
1e
the passing of the Reform Bill, that system might not
done, but now it would not. Could any man statelloses
in the present state of things so many of their fell
countrymen would long quietly remain excluded 'erns
electoral privileges?. Anu it would be wise in Getvbeso
ment and that House to yield at once and give .00
men justice, lest the withholding of it might drive
_ben
to despair. He thought the time had now come I'd al
Government, if they could not go all the way, shcT far.
all events show that they were anxious to go s". de.
Let them show the people that they had an earnest be
sire to give the people justice, and with that viel 0
begged to conclude by moving for leave to bring
die;
Bill to amend the national representation, by exteli'ders,
the elective franchise so as to include all househo to
by enacting that votes shall be taken by ballot; this end
duration of Parliaments shall not exec, d three Yearscieeed
that the apportionment of representatives be rep
ese'
more equal to the population. The Hon. Member
sumed his seat f: mid considerable cheering. the
Mr. H. BERKELEY said he begged to second
rose.
motion of his lion. Friend the Member for IVl°llt,,s to
He was not aware what course Government reist-001
take in reference to it, whether they would take ogo
disrespectful course which they took a few eights
that
in reference to his motion on the ballot—a course
tot
respectful to the constituencies which sent them tewith
House, and disrespectful to the House itself. Ist
much deference to his Hon. Friend who had introon,sbt
thiscarried,
aereorfof
orospritrmeemerdpit
popular
oiitpoet
ounswvulh,
aeooohrmuuue consideredel,dodneft
the
those
other
t hge
questions
eh
nsatitigofithoinhi
trosewf question he brio
be
ee and
t brought re o uthg
meansaht t (the
connected ballot)
withlit
„It
consequence
bnyg
itself,those
oost:4
reforms, which he considered so necessary, carried etiliotti
for it must be evident to all that so long as intinsidr res
and corruption were mixed up with their system h'isre°
presentation, so long would the people be inisvefeat
sented. he ballot had also more adherents le igbt
House than any other reform measure, for it foot
be said that not fewer than 150 Members of
the Go'
House were its warm supporters. He still the Go'
therefore, that the Noble Lord at the head of the re'
vernment might have met that question in a more o 1
spectful manner than he had done. But whether °„r
the
the Noble Lord would follow a similar course 700°
present instance, there were other members of
ty to
vernment, who he thought were bound in 110°20 vote
their constituents to come forward and explain ts.,, for
they bad given on his motion, or rather to apologl!. oes
it. He thought it became the Right Hon. Baronet:dept
Secretary for the Home Department for one t'?, whits
that course. That Right Hon. Baronet had voted boa
on one occasion and black upon another; and v_ben
not condescended to explain why he voted black 184%
he ought to have voted svhite.—(Laughter.) In Vrte
the Right Hon. Baronet gave his support to the tern
tection of Voters Bill, in 1849 he considers tbat:; to
require no protection.—(Hear, hear.) He asked 11849,
explain what had happened between 1842 sea'
ure to
which had caused the necessity for such a Mel wet;
disappear? Would he tell them that the peeP.his42l
less to be depended on in 1849 than they were In sod'
—(Hear, bear.) If he did so, it would be base ititloiti
tude on his part, for no man had better oplo,r the
of seeing the fidelity and honesty of the people than they
Right Hon. Baronet bad had, and he could tell bite die
had it not been for that fidelity and that honesty, thetsent
ties of the Secretary of State for the Home &Or Odd
would have been more arduous during 1848 thil, t
had been. But there were others upon wlorn, he teas
s,
also a right to call for explanation, and among ose
the Master of the Mint.--(Laughter.) He well age.
lected the effect the speech of the Right Hon. Ge° IP;
in reference to the ballot in 1842 had upon lit e' they
earnest and impressive reasoning, urged in waeoltill
burn, depicted the system in its most clear and r of form; but that Right Hun. Gentleman having ee,"soing
seat on Treasury Bench, contents himself wituof sae,
that he does not think the people are so desirous
„bter.)
a measure now as they were then.—(Hear, andcliaoUtlee, sup'Go
Ho must say that, by acting as they bad
vernment had lost all the confidence their erwe'rd,
porters reposed in them. And now the Noble‘sce
stead of looking for support to that quarter whose to?:
ciples gave him the best claim to do so, bad 0...1:14 was ?,
to the lisght Hob. Baronet opposite, and the.
could depend upon no support except that gr'Tings b._
the Tories.—(Hear, bear.) Such a state of
lf returned
conceived to be deplorable. He was himself
the
•
Corn-law League, but, as an independent
thought 1%0
that House not in any way connected vemitenraber, Wl.llO
ing to support the Noble Lord when he hat
right, and oppose when he thought him wry ga