The Sun.
London, England, 1831-04-18 00:00:00

REFORM MEASURE.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose and said-Sir, I feel, and
there can he no doubt of the fact, that however cautious
the House may he to go into a Committee upon
the 13d1 for amending the representation of the people
in Parliamens, as I had already stated that there are
certain alterations proposed by his Majesty's Mini
stets before it ought to be discussed in Committee,
and as my announcement is that respect has led to observa-
tions which I feel cannot pars entirely without answer,
I feel it incumbent to enter into these explanations which I
trust will satisfy the House, both that the Government in
their original principle acted fairly and impartially, and
that in proposing the alterations which it is their inters-
tion to introduce, they are not abandoning but carrying
into effect the principle on which the Bill is founded.—
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")—But, Sir, before I en-
ter upon this matter, I cannot help contrasting
the situation in which I stand now, with that
in • which I stood when I brought forward the
measure upon the Ist of March. Whatever anxiety
I mey feel now, it is an anxiety mixed with feelings of
pride and satisfaction that the measure which the Ministers
of the King thous ht it their duty to propose as one which
they consider calculated the hest for the promotion of the
future welfare of England, has been stampsd and scaled by
the approbation of that peop'e for whose benefit and
advantage it is solely intended,—(Loud
This very night Sir, since I have been in the House, I
have heard the Hon. Mender for Preston, who is no
very partial friend of this Bill, allege that it is im-
possible for the Press of England not to stand
forward as the fearless advocate of the measure,
for if they were not to take such part it would be impos-
sible for them to find readers. Sir, another sign, and a
gratifying one, of the opinions of the people, is the
number of addresses and petitions which have flown
from all parts of this united empire, both to the
;good
deal and to this House. I have looked a ,good
deal into these petitions, but as I may have overlooked
some, I will not venture to state the numbers presented on
one side or on the other. But one thing strikes me as
true, and can, I imagine, be proved most satisfactorily,
on examination, namely, that from the Corporations whose
rights it was said we were about to rob—that from the
boroughs we were about to spoliate, the petitions in favour
of this measure have been more numerous than the peti-
tions on the other aide. I will not mention all the
petitions. I may mention, however, the petitions of
corporations, a noble catalogue—at the head of which
stands the Corporation of London—then of Canterbury—
then that of Portsmouth—of Gloucester—of Lincoln--
of Derby, and of Bedford. Sir, there is one gratifying
sign that they feel that, however the privileges which they
enjoy are held•by law, and cannot he taken from them ex-
cept by Act of Parliament, yet that they would not be
acting with that degree of consideration for the in-
terests of their country, which became them if
they were not to profess' their readiness to give
their willing assent to'a measure which, if it did deprive
them of power, tended to give their fellow-citizens
privileges, which ought long ago to have been dif-
fused more generally, instead of being confined in those
very select and small bodies. But with regard to the feeling,
and approbation, and sentiments of the people of England,
I have another test, which I borrow from the Right
Gentleman opposite, who, as he is in the habit of
frequently quoting past speeches, cannot surely find
fault with me, if, on this occasion, I adopt the
same course.—(Hear, hear.) In bringing forward
the Roman Catholic question, and in defending himself
against the charge that had been made against that
Honourable Member, because he had not kept up his
resistance to the Catholic claims with sufficient
pertinacity, he declared that be hail asked a friend of his
to look into the votes of past years, with respect to
the opinions of their constituents upon the Catholic
question. He said he had taken fifteen counties and
twenty towns, in fact he had taken seventeen counties and
twenty-two towns, hut that differencealters not the principle
upon which he proceeded, as a test of the opinions of
the people of England. In his speech, which had
been published under his sanction and approbation,
he had said that in considering these votes so given,
he was furnished with a practical and constitu-
tional method of determining the sense of the people.
Now, Sir, I am going to adopt that same practical
and constitutional method to ascertain legitimately the
sense of the people in reference to this measure. I will go
over the very counties and places which he mentioned
in the Catholic question, and I will refee

The Noble Lord then went into A statement of the
several county Members who voted for and against
the Roman Catholic Bill, among which there were
Essex, one in favour of, one against; Hampshire, both
against ; Lincolnshire, one in favour of, one against ;
Warwickshire, two in faVour of; making in all seventeen
counties, in which twenty-seven Members voted in favour
of the second reading of that important measure, and
only nine against it.—(Hear.) I come next, Sir, to the
towns which the Right Hon. Baronet took as a sample of
the country's feelings. London three for and one against ;
Westminster all in favour of; Southwark one for and one
against ; Liverpool, one for and one against ; Leicester
divided ; Exeter two in favour of ; Coventry two in
favour of ; Vork two in favour of; Great Yarmouth
two in favour of—making in the whole thirty-nine
Members from these great towns who voted in
favour of the measure, awl only six against it.
Upon the whole eighty-one Members to whom the flight
Baronet opposite had somewhat of a reforming eye looking
to them practically and accurately to determine the sense
of the people on this greet question. Of these eighty-
one Members, sixty-six voted in favour of the
measure, and only fifteen against it. I take up these very
places referred to by the Right Honourable Baronet, and
from the feelings I have seen displayed in them I cannot but
consider that these are signal proofs that the voice of the
country is decidedly, not in favour merely of Reform, not
merely in favour of the vague word Reform, which
al gentlemen, it appears are now in favour of
(Hear)—so long as they are not called upon to determine
in what sense they understand it, but it is a signal proof that
the people are in favour of a thorough Reform, in short, that
they are in favour of this Bill ; that they think the nomi-
nation of seats ought to be put an end to, and the franchise
extended to large, commercial, and manufacturing towns,
which at present were wholly unrepresented. I derive
(continued the Noble Lord) my information not merely
from this, but I infer it likewise from the division which
now appears among those who represent the various
boroughs, which it is the object of this Bill to de-
prive of their Members. It is no wonder they
should say, we will not vote for this Bill ; it deprives
us of the rights which we at present enjoy ;
but when we find that persons whose interests are against
the question, having no external force applied to them,
are exceedingly divided, and that perhaps one-third of
them are in favour of relinquishing the power and privilege
which they enjoy, from a sense that such power and pri-
vilege ought not to continue, I say it is a very strong proof
of what the opinion of the people is, and the impression
that is made on men of cultivated understandings
by the arguments and teasons which have been adduced to
their minds during the course of the past years on
the great question of Reform. I shall now, Sir, refer
to the manner in which this Bill has been considered by
his Majesty's Ministers during the recess, and in doing
eo, I find myself obliged, from the misunderstanding
that has prevailed, to refer to the way in which the ►nea-
sure was ori..inally brought forward. It was difficult
properly to estimate a standard on which we should proceed
with reference to persons who should have the right to vote.
There were various means by which this might have been
ascertained pointed out. It WAS said that those paying
the smallest taxes, were those rated at :10/. ; but On
looking at the case in that view. it was found that those taxes
were extremely irregular, and that in many places they took
them at the value of the houses rated. Therefore if we had
taken that test, we should have taken a test liable to error,
if we had taken the test of the 101. householders.—
It was also said we might take an examination into
the boroughs—their limits, and so on ; but that
inquiry would have led to great doubts and difficulties.
Thexa would have been great partialities shown by the
persons sent out to make the enquiry, and we should have
got such a mass of details as would have rendered
it impossible for us to bring forward any effective mea-
sure for a year or more, and yet after all we should
not have arrived at a proper criterion of the places
which ought to be disfranchised. If we
had confined ourselves to the limits of a particular bo-
rough, we should not have done justice, for in Bridge-
water, for instance, it is stated that the parish is divided
into three parts, its jurisdiction extending over the whole,
but there is only one part that sends Members to
Parliament. It was thought, therefore, better at
once to take that well known Parliamentary docu-
ment, the population register, which certainly was
not drawn up with a view to favour any interest, with a
view to befriend any party, but was made out for the
purpose of ascertaining the population of the country. We
obtained,:therefore, the returns as they were drawn up in the
offiice of the Secretary of State for the Home Department,
Sir, in doing this, we were taking not only what
seems to me to he a fair line, but we were tak-
ing the only practical line that could be adopted,
because with regard to many of those borough!, the only
statement to be found in the book of the returns
of population is the borough and parish ; and when, by our
desire, letters were written by the Secretary of State
to the returning officers for their returns, the answer
of many of them was, that it was impossible to
know what the population was in 1821. Therefore, if we
had taken those letters as our guide in framing this measure,
we should have taken that line which would not only not
have been fair, but a line from which it would have
been absolutely impracticable, at least from any known
or precise data, to have distinguished the borough,:
in all cases from parishes. For instance, with respect to
the first borough, Atnersha►n, the return made of it was,
that the houses of the inhabitant, covered the
whole pariah. Well, then in speaking of Caine,
(which I shall have occasion to advert to shortly)
a Right Honourable Gentleman accused its the
other night improperly, by saying that this was a
corrected return. He ought, himself, undoubtedly, to
have taken good care to have been correct before
he bed made that statement. So far from this being
a corrected return, it is, in reality, only a return in
part from the letters sent to the Secretary of State',
office by the returning officers in the course of last
week, and which was laid before the House as col-
lateral to going into a Committee. Wherever there is
a borcugh to which there is a parish attached, we have
endeavoured to do that which I think is mast equitable.
With respect to the borough of Aldhorough, in Yorkshire, it
is stated that the borough and township contain 735 inha-
bitants; but on examining the memorials that have been
sent to the Secretary of State's office, it appears
that it and Boroughbridge, and several other places,
make altogether two thousand inhabitants.—(Hear, hear,
from Sir C. Wetherell.) What they proposed was, that
Buckingliam,Melmesbury,Oakbampton, andßeigete should
be removed from schedule A. to schedule B. ; and that
with respect to schedule B. that Leominster, North-
aierton, Morpeth, Tamworth, Truro, Westbury, and Chip-
ping•Wycombe,should be removed from it and permitted to
return Members as the other borough. There must
be a line of some sort drawn ; and the line we
have taken is that where it can be said with
any fairness that the townships or parishes are depen-
dent upon the boroughs or belong to the boroughs on the
and chief places that then they ought to be con-
sidered as part of the boroughs, and taken in part
of the population ; but we have determined not
to give the parishes the right of hieing included in the
borough populations which are at a distance from
anti have no connection with the boroughs. With
respect to Beeralston, which was alluded to the other
night, we do not think it falls within the exemption,
and that it ought to undergo the sentence of
disfranchisement. A Right Honourable Gentleman had
compared this to the case of the borough of Caine ; but
I imagine it will not be a presumption to say there is
not the most remote resemblance between the two.
—The borough of Caine, as one of those places (of
which there are many) in which the Parish and Board are
close together, and in whteh it happens the parish is
chiefly formed of the town, the borough itself
being very unable. There are then other cases of a
similar kind, such as Chichester, Newport, and so on.
It is very eosy upon a matter of this sort to
form a change of partiality ; but I think if any
one will refer to the book of population returns, and
to that which has been entered " a corrected return," I
am satisfied they will perceive there has lean no partiality
whatever. It would be very easy if I could think that any
Members of this House would be reconciled to this mea-
sure by taking the borough of Caine or Tavistock, or auy
such one, and adding it to the disfranchised boroughs—it
would be very easy to do it, and I am sure nothing could
give me greater pleasure than to think that we had got
five votes by occasioning the interests of any persons
whatever, connected with those boroughs.—(Cheers.)—
The Noble Lord then proposed to give representatives
to all towns containing above ten thousand inhabitants.
To Bury, Oldham, and Rochdale they proposed to give
one Member each. To Salford, independently Manches-
ter sending two Members, they proposed to give one
Member. To Stoke-upon-Trent, and parishes
adjoining one ; to Wakefield one ; to Whitby one ;
the town of Halifax would be taken out of schedule A.,
to be added to schedule B. To all counties in England
and Wales it was proposed to add one additional Member and
to those counties containing more than 150,000 inhabitants
would have the privilege of sending four Members.
Gla►norganshire, who sent one, would send two. He
then observed that Buckingham, Marlimrough, and three "

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Sr. Cocuma—Wheat, 255. to 276.—Barley, 12s. to 133.—8 ed,
and Mutton, 4d. to sd.—Veal, 4%d.—Lamb, Si.

MONTGOMERY'S NEW POEM.—In conse-
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publishers beg to state that a Second Edition is in the
press, and will appear as early as possible.

SINGULAR CHARGE OF
On Friday, at a Petty Sessions, held at the house of J.
MASTER, Esq. near Bated, Surrey, before a bench of
county Magi.trates, a farmer (Mr. G.) residing at Limp-
field, and also having another farm at Norwood, was
charged with violating the person of Mrs. S., his niece. It
appeared that the husband of the female is the nephew and
bailiff of the accused, and the former was ser:t by the
latter to hell a calf at the London market early last week.
The calf was taken ill on the road, and the nephew re'
turned hnme at a late hour at night unexpectedly, and on
entering his bed-room found his wife and his uncle in bed
together. She screamed " murder" and " violation," and
pretended that her uncle had not obtained her consent, and
she charged him with a capital assault. On this charge
he was brought before the Magist ales, on a warrant, and
it was proved that he had been nearly three hours in bed
with her before the husband returned home, and that the
latter would have taken 100/. from hie uncle to compro-
mise the affair, hut he would not give more than 201--
The Magistrates said the charge could not he entertained
by them, and the nephew might apply to a civil Court for
redress fin the seduction of his wile, if he thought proper.
He declared he would, and left the Court with his wife.

Sr. ANN'S SOCIETY.—The anniversary
meeting of the friends of the above-mentioned institution
was held on Friday at the London Tavern, Bishopsgate-
strcet, and it was gratifying to witness such a numerous
body of the supporters of this excellent charity assembled
together on toe occasion. The object of the charity is to
afford succour and protection to young children, male and
female, being the offspring of such persons as have beea
reduced by unforeseen accidents from a state of easy cir-
cumstances to one of poverty. They are received at an
early age into the society's establishment at Brixton, there
educated on the Madras system, boarded, clothed, 4nd en-
tirely provided for at the expense of the society, and upon
attaining a certain number of years are apprenticed to in-
dustrious occupations. Perhaps a more convincing evi-
dence of the utility of this society could not he adduced
than the fact, that many of the persons educated at the so-
ciety's schools, who have since risen to opulence and respee'
lability, at present occupy, in conjunction with some of the
highest personages in the land, the situation of life.govev-
nors of the institution. One of these individuals addressed
the meeting in the course of the evening, and declared his
determination to give the utmost support to a charity from
which he had himself experienced so much benefit. Lord
MORPLTH, in consequence of the unavoidable absence of
the Duke of Sussex, took the chair, end discharged the
duties of President in an able and efficient style. Among
the company present were the Bishops of EXETER and
ROCIIRSTER, Sir J. Yoaaa, M.P., Mr. ATTWOOD, M.P.,
Mr. Sheriff POLAND, &c., all of whom liberally contra'
buted to the funds of the institution. The total amount
of the subscriptions was declared to he 9271. ; but as the
society is in debt 2,6501. for the building expenses of the
establishment at Brixton, it will be seen tbat the friends of
this charity have cause enough to increase their efforts to
procure for it fresh supporters, and thereby sem-e the con-
tinuance of that benefit which it has already conferred
upon society.

BIRTHS.
On the 16th inst. in Cleveland-row, the Lady Durham, of 0
daughter.
On the 16th inst. the lady of C. T. Swanston, Esq. of a son.
On the 14th inst. at Darlington-place, St. John's Wood, the
lady of J. Daly, Esq., of a son.
On the I Ith inst. the lady of the Rev. G. C. Rashleigh, of
daughter.
On the 13th inst. at Spring-place, Hackney, the wife of O'
Baker, Esq.. of twin sons.
On the 14th inst. at Blackheath, the lady of J. M. White, 01
a daughter.
MARRIED.
On the 16th inst. at Christ-church, St. Marylebone, J. F. Rose
Esq., to Elizabeth Chapman.
On the 16th inst. at All Souls Church, Sir R. A. O'Doneh
Bart. of Newport-house, Newport, county of Mayo, to Mar'',
third daughter of G. Clendining, Esq., of Westport.
On the 14th inst. at Tv;yford, F. P. Delme Radciffe,
teoldiesint
msoan, oofn1.1;. E
daughter of J. 11. asdqd.,inogf
ttohne,Friory,
ford-house.
On the 15th inst. at St. George the Martyr's, Rev.thE;q.'of h
J.
lace to Sophia Wilton Windeatt, only daughter of the late S.
Windeatt, Esq., of Bridgetown, Totness, Devon.
On the 14th inst. at St. James's, Westminster, the Rev. C.
Hill, n A., of Fetcham, Surrey, to Cicely, youngest daughti
of the late Sir C. Willoughby, Bart. of Baldon-house, Oxon.'
Sham
On the 14th inst. at Homerton,
DIED. g
On the 14th inst. at Camberwell, Mrs. Allan, relict of the li
J. Allan, Esq., of Clifton.
Mrs. Sarah Duppa, widow,
her 87th year.
On the 13th inst. at King-street, St. James's-square, J. SSl'dell, Esq., aged 34.
Ott the 16th inst. Mr. Wm. Collins, of Durham-street, vaiir
hall, aged 64.
On the 16th inst. Wm. ThomPsThompson, EIS, of the Stock .••
change, aged 70.
On the 16th inst. at Lee, J. K. Williams, Leg.
irl

AND PLiaLimiED.,,,Y,. MURDO YOUNG, AT