The Sun.
London, England, 1836-10-15 00:00:00

to say in defence of themselves, that the measures of his
friends were those, in the first place, to which they had
pledged themselves, and in respect to them there were no
sudden turns, no waverings or vaccillations—there were
none of those to whom he had attached himself who were
one opinion to-day, and of another on another day.—(Loud
cheers.) They were Reformers, but were consistent Re-
formers—they had been emancipators, but were steady, con-
sistent emancipators, both in and out of office.—(Loud
cheering.) He had said this much in justification of the
line of policy which he and his friends had pursued. But
since the progress of events had been alluded to, what great,
he would say, what mighty, changes have been introduced,
and achieved through the instrumentality of the representa-
tives of a free country, and by the constitutional Ministers
of a constitutional King, possessing, as they did, the confidence
of the House of Commons, without which no Ministry
should or could exist.—(Loud and continued cheering.)
They had fought the battle of the Dissenters, and had con-
quered.—(Cheers.) They had fought boldly for reform, and
had achieved it.—(Loud cheers.) They had established the
municipal liberties of Scotland and of England, and if they
had not procured equal rights for Ireland was it their
fault?—(Hear and cheers.) Were they to be responsible
for that ?—(No, no, and cheers.) Those triumphs which
they had won could never be wrested from the Whigs.—
(Loud cheers.) He would now wish, with their permis-
sion, to refer to the transactions of the last Session of Par-
liament, and in reference to it he did not consider that it
had been as justly dealt with, as he felt assured those pre.
sent were disposed to deal with it.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
There were two great parties in the country which had evi-
denced their determination to deprecate altogether the
events of that Session.—(Hear.) One of these was the
Tory party, which was still strong in power and influence ;
but although it derived its name from Ireland, he did not
know that it had any further connection with it ; and even
as regarded the name, it was not one of good omen in this
country.(Laughter and cheers.) That party, however,
wishing ardently to undervalue every act of a Reforming
Government, and every measure which proceeded from the
House of Commons, wished it to be believed that nothing
had been done during the last Session. That was, how-
ever a point of difference between that party and him ;
and he must confess that when an argument came from
that quarter with the design of undervaluing the exer-
tions of the Government and the House of Commons,
he could not but doubt the evidence which emanated
from such a source.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) He would
ask, then, had there been nothing done during the last
Session of Parliament ?—(Hear.) Now, although those
who were especially eager to achieve the full extent of con-
stitutional liberty, at once might say that nothing had been
done while anything remained to be done ; yet, when he
compared the result of the last session with those which
preceded it, when the Tories were in power, they did not'
appear to him to be without their use and their advantage.
When he looked to the claims made on the principle of re-
ligious liberty, which above all others it was their duty to
enforce, and which it was for the public interest to maintain,
they found that Catholic Emancipation had been achieved ;
that the disgraceful Test Acts had been repealed ; and he
would ask, were they not bornd to follow up those measures
by a concession to the just claims of the Protestant Dis-
senters?—(Hear and loud cheers.) Two of the grievances
complained of by that great body had been removed, and he
would ask, were these trifles ?—(Hear.) How long had a
repeal of those grievances been sought for ?—( Hear.) If
fruits were to be valued in proportion to the time they re-
quired before they came to perfection and maturity, then
how long, he would ask, had they struggled for the Marriage
and the Registration Acts ?—( Hear.) They had, however,
accomplished both of these, and yet they were told, upon
Tory authority, that they had accomplished nothing. Was
the settlement of the English tithe question nothing ? The
accomplishment of that measure had foiled all the efforts
of Mr. Pitt ; it had been sought for by the agricultural
interests as a means of relief, it had been wished for
and desired by the Church in its own defence, and he
would ask now was it nothing to have achieved that im-
portant question during the last Session of Parliament ?
(Loud cheers.) There was one more point to which he
should allude, and in which he individually felt an interest,
and he trusted that they participated, and lie would
again ask, had there been nothing done during the last
Sssion when they considered the great difficulties attend-
ant upon that question, which gave the means of acquiring
political knowledge to the people at large, and thus
afford an important branch of instruction among the great
mass of the inhabitants of the empire ?—(Hear, hear.)
Many difficulties of an opposite character had been at-
tendant upon that question, but, in effecting the great
good which it would undoubtedly produce, it was to him
a matter of pride and satisfaction, and, he considered, fully
justified him in saying that the session had not been lost.
—(Hear, and cheers.) In former times the achievement
of any one of those questions to which he had alluded
would have been an event worthy of note, but the people
had been of late living upon the high diet afforded by the
Reform Bill, and then the Corporation Bill, and if the
Government were driven to propose lesser measures, it was
because the greater ones had been obtained.—( Hear, hear.)
They could not have the Reform Bill twice, but having ob-
tained it, the Administration applied itself to remove lesser
grievances than had been remedied by that measure.—
(Hear, hear.) But there were two classes of persons of a
widely different character, who considered that the last
Session of Parliament had been fruitless, for not only the
Tories, but the more eager class of Reformers, thought
that by proving that because Government had been unable
to carry any measures of great advantage, the public should
underrate the legislation of the last Session.—(Hear, bear.)
To both of these classes of individuals he would say—but
he was far from putting the partisans of popular institu-
tions, those who were dissatisfied in consequence of their
thirst for greater advantages, far be it from him to place
them on the line with those who not only regretted that
any concessions had been made, but who would, if they
could, wrest from the people those concessions which had
already been granted to them, far be it from him to place
both those classes of individuals in the same category ; but
both the man who would give nothing, and he who had got
half what he desired, said that nothing had been done, or
disputed the utility of that which had been done.—(Hear.)
He should be sorry to be mistaken as to his meaning in
making those observations, or that it should be considered
that more still remained to be done, which ought not to be
effected ; he had no such meaning, but he considered that
because they had not been able to obtain all they desired to
obtain immediately, they should not be dispirited, nor let
those words of despondency escape them which he observed
in many of the publications of the day. They should not
think that the last session had been lost, but that they had,
on the contrary, advanced in the cause of truth and of the
Constitution, and this would have the effect of exciting them
to exert themselves to procure further beneficial measures.
—(Hear and cheers.) In respect to himself, in relation to
the office he filled, he had little observation to make, as it
happily had not been his fate, as Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, to impose any new taxes upon the people ; and he
was sure the assembly would not require from him then any
justification for a Minister acting under the authority of
others ; but since he had been placed on his own responsi-
bility, of late years, his operations had been limited to the
reduction of those burthens which more particularly pressed
upon the people.—(Loud cheers.) He could not, however,
vindicate the events of the last session without acknow-
ledging that reasons existed for the disappointment which
the people at large, but the people of Ireland in particular,
had sustained, and he felt deeply the cause of that disap-
pointment to the people of Ireland and the empire. He
said the empire, because he knew of no distinction
which should exist between any portions of it ; and if any
loss occurred to Ireland it was a damage which the whole
empire sustained.—(Hear and loud cheers.) Ireland might
be the strength and the glory of England, but under
the influence of misrule it could be to it but a source of
weakness—its bane and its calamity.—(Hear, and loud
deers.) He would say, then, to England, that in one
respect the welfare from the good government of Ireland
was of more value to it than even that of its own ter-
ritory ; for England had long possessed those blessings
which just and equal laws partially administered, and
the absence of religious factions always presented.—To
the British statesman, therefore, in England little re-
mained to do ; but to the British legislator and states-
man who desired the welfare of all Britain, and who pos-
sessed a heart of sensibility, the field of Ireland was open ;
there he could serve, and could win the affections of the
people, and if he was wise he would make Ireland prosperous.
—(Loud cheers.) If he looked to the chance of foreign ag-
gression, she would be to him his strength ; and if he looked
to the resources of the country, Ireland would be to him not
a mine of lead, but one of gold and diamonds—and in the
imperial Crown of Britain, would be the brightest of its or-
naments.—( Loud cheers.) Much, however, still remained to
be done for Ireland, and here were two great measures con-
nected with it, upon carrying which not only the honour
and credit, but the existence of the present Government
depended—(Continued cheers) ;—and could not the Go-
vernment say proudly, that whilst it maintained its existence
in reference to two Irish questions, it nevertheless did not
undervalue the duty which it owed to Great Britain, for
the interests of Great Britain demanded the tranquilliza-
tion of Ireland, because on the tranquillity of that coun-
try the strength and independence of the empire depended.
—(Loud cheers.) To give tranquillity to Ireland, then,
was fighting the battle of the people of England ; and
they were promoting the interests of York and of Middle-
sex, in putting an end to the discord which distracted Ire-
land.--(Cheers.) With respect to the two Irish measures
to which he had alluded—they were the Irish Church Bill,
and the Bill for reforming the Irish Municipal Corpora-
tions.—(Hear, hear.) He would, however, reverse the
order in which lie had mentioned them, and would address
himself first to the second of these measures—the Corpo-

ration Bill ; and the experience of Limerick bore gene-
rally upon that question. The corporations of England and
Scotland had been reformed, and the question was, what
reform, if any, in this respect should be conceded to Ire-
land.:—(Hear, hear.) Government had started the question,
without pledging itself to any details, that a system of mu-
nicipal government was necessary for the cities and towns in
Ireland ; and it was stated that there were persons in the
great cities, such as Limerick, Cork, and Belfast, men of
wealth, intelligence, integrity of mind, and lovers of order,
who would be fair repositories of political power—and he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) wished that those who
doubted this position were present there, and heard the
observations which had been made by their President that
evening, and witnessed the loyalty and feeling with which
the various toasts relating to the institutions of the country
had been given and received. He wished they had witnessed
the enthusiasm with which these sentiments had been re-
ceived by the people—those very persons who were said to
be unworthy of political institutions.—(Hear.) This would
be the best contradiction to the calumnious assertions.—
(Loud cheers.) Why, the people of Limerick had achieved
a municipal reform of their own, and it was on record, as
given in evidence before the House of Lords, that magis-
trates, men of high character, and military men of rank—
and he was sure that every one of them stated what he be-
lieved to be the truth—at that time stated in evidence, that
if the Limerick Corporate Bill were carried, not one of the
quarterly meetings which it provided could be held without
the attendance of horse, foot, and artillery, and that their
homes, their commercial establishments, would be absolutely
invaded.—(Loud laughter and cheers.) Now there was not
a single argument which had been brought against the gene-
ral question last year that had not been before adduced in
the case of Limerick, and he would here ask his friends if
all those threatened calamities had occurred ? Had their
trade been interrupted ?—(No, no.) Had their industry
been cramped and fettered ?—(No, no.) He had often before
met them in that chamber of commerce—there he had re
ceived his earliest instructions in the science of commercial
transactions, and when he said that their trade had been
doubled within the last ten years, and the shipping interest
of Limerick had increased in a ratio of from 5,0001. to
100,0001. value, he considered that _it gave the best pos-
sible answer to the statements made last year.—(Loud
cheers.) Then regarding religious animosities, he would
ask, had they been augmented in their town ?—(No, no.)
Had, he would again ask, those rights which were conceded
by legislation, and by the Constitution, been productive of
an increase of religious animosity, or would they be likely
to do so ?—(No, no, and cheers.) He said, then, that the
experience of the case of Limerick contradicted all the as-
sertions to the contrary : but it was stated by his opponents
" Oh, the people of Limerick are well-conducted men—
men of intelligence and sense ; and that the very air of Gar-
ryowen was sufficient protection from violence." But were
not Cork, Waterford, Dublin, and Belfast, equally capable
of managing their municipal affairs? He hoped, therefore,
that Irishmen would assert their rights ; for he could not
help thinking that the application of the same principle that
had been adopted towards Limerick would be attended with
the same results. He would say this to the objectors to his
theory, and would ask them to give him the means of af-
fording them another example. He would say to them,
pass the Municipal Bill, and he would give them twenty
more examples of the benefit of Reform. But what had
been the mode of proceeding adopted by the opponents of
reform or alteration ? Why, they who seemed to regard a
sword-bearer or a mace-bearer as an object to be venerated
with a regard surpassing the love of man, had been the
very first to come forward and to propose that all those in-
stitutions and their dignities should be swept away. Now,
he for one, would never fix a brand upon the fair front of
the institutions of the country, and say that of those insti-
tutions which had been planted there coeval with the Plan-
tagenets the people were unworthy and unfit to partake.
Let it not be said that they were seeking after novelty in
demanding Municipal Institutions. No, they asked merely
for what was their own ; for that which had been granted
to them by the former Monarchs of the country. .It was
only the close borough system which was of modern
growth ; and let them, then, as Irishmen, declare that they
would never be contented if their country was kept in the
condition which was threatened by the opponents of liberal
and equal laws. The next point to which he would refer,
and it was one of more difficulty than that to which he had
just alluded, was the Irish Church question—(Hear)—and
he was happy to have the opportunity of making some ob-
servations upon the subject in the Irish Assembly, for he
would repeat what he had always declared on the hustings,
and as frequently as possible in principle, that there was no
man, be he whom he might, be he a member of an Epis-
copal Synod, or of an Orange Lodge, who was more sin-
cerely attached to the Protestant Church than the indivi-
dual who addressed them—(Hear, and cheers)—he had
found this avowal met with no auspicious response by Ro-
man Catholics, for he had said that he was willing to do
full justice to them, but not by doing injustice to others.
—(Hear, and cheers.) The Protestants of Ireland were
a great and important class, to whom their Roman Catho-

lie fellow subjects were willing to render all that belonged
to them, but nothing more.—(Hear, hear.) And were he
a candidate addressing them as a constituency, he was sure
he would not get a vote from them if he did not declare his
adherence to his creed, and his resolute determination to
maintain it.—(Cheers.) This was the principle on which
they met as Irishmen ; this was the principle on which
he would ask for their applause, for their cheers, and
for their sympathy.—(Loud and continued cheering.)
For if it were said that he came amongst them to court
popularity, and that using false means to do so he was
unfriendly to the community to which he belonged, he
would reply that he would not trust a Catholic wo was.
indifferent to the creed he professed ; and he was sure that
none would trust him if he were indifferent to the welfare
of his own religion.—(Hear, hear.) The question then
was—whether the proposed measure tended to be injurious
to the interests of the Church 2—(Hear)--but in his opi-
nion it did not, and could not.--(Hear, hear.) It never
was so intended ; in fact, the principle of it had a directly
contrary effect, for it looked to the amount of duty to be
performed ; and yet it was said that remuneration should
be proportioned to the amount of labour was an unreason-
able and unconstitutional doctrine. It appeared to him,
however, to be a doctrine that flowed from the most com-
mon and best understood principles ; for, as an illustration,
if any of them had a waggon laden with eight tons weight
which he wished to be moved, he would apply eight horses
to it for that purpose ; but if he merely wished to move a
wheelbarrow, he would have it done by his garden boy.—
(Hear.) It was provided, therefore, in the Church Bill,
that the established clergy should be well paid, in reference
to the duty they performed, and that any surplus which re-
mained, after all just demands had been satisfied, should
not be applied to improper purposes, which might be sug-
gested by a Government seeking popularity and applause
from ill-judging men ; but applied, as trusts were by the
Court of Chancery, if not to the original purposes for
which they were intended, to the next best uses in which the
whole community had an interest.—(Hear, and cheers.)
And then, as Protestants, were they to be told that edu-
cation was adverse to Protestantism, for it was to that
purpose that any surplus was proposed to be appropriated.—
( Hear, hear.) That was the doctrine of the present Govern-
ment, and to it they were determined to adhere ; that was
the principle upon which the present Government was
founded, and under one modification or another, he trusted
he should live to see it carried into effect—(Cheers)—but
there could be no doubt of success.—(Cheers.) They
were told that the Upper House of the Legislature would
prevent it. Now he would speak with every respect of a
co-ordinate, though he doubted its being a co-equal, branch
of the Legislature.—(Hear, and cheers.) He would speak
with respect to the power given to that House by the Con-
stitution ; but if experience derived from the past was true,
it proved that if the cause was right and just, and was sup-
ported by the House of Commons, sooner or later it
must be triumphant. They were aware that the House
of Lords had opposed the Emancipation Act, the Re-
form Act, and the Test Act : but the cause of liberty
had been triumphant, and they had fought them all suc-
cessfully, and they would fight the Irish questions in the
same way and with the same results. But in order to gain
the battle, they must use the same means—they must ,
use the same constitutional agency which they had used
before, and not play the game of the Tories, and by hunting
after novelty enable that party to reproach them as desirous
to subvert the Constitution, when by constitutional means
all the good which they desired could be attained.—(Hear.)
Sooner or later their object would be gained ; but there
was a wide distinction between these words : for that
which was wrung tardily and reluctantly from any body of
men, however good the end achieved, at last they gave—
he would use the words of a Noble Friend—" the lamp,
but the talisman was lost."—(Loud cheers.) But, on the
contrary, where blessings were conceded because it was
thought right they should, they were not extorted as a boon
by violence, but as a claim by justice, and those two systems
acted as differently upon both parties as the charity be-
stowed for purely Christian purposes, and that which was
given by the proud and ostentatious man for the purpose of
making friends, by prostituting even charity to the uses of
the mammon of unrighteousness.—(Loud cheers.) But
he had occupied too much of their time, although
lie could scarcely have said less than he had upon the
present occasion, and he would now say that as a Mi-
nister of the Crown, and in his capacity as a Member of
Parliament, he would be faithful to the King, and to the
relations which existed between him and his constituents ;
but ,was bound to the empire at large by the ties of duty,
but especially to the citizens of Limerick by the ties of
affection--(Loud cheers)—and whenever it happened—
and he cared not how soon the period arrived—that the
conflicts of political strife closed on him, and that he re-
turned to those dearer duties connected with home and his
country—living in that county as a country gentleman, he