The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-13 00:00:00

That Lord Brougham should have attracted the moat
rstacorous vituperation of tho Tory press can excite no
surprise, as the hatred of that immaculate organ is always
measured out in proportion to the benefits which the indi-
vidual selected for his animadversion may have rendered to
the cause of reform and good government, and his Lord-
ship's position as a Reformer being pre-eminent, the enve-
nomed assaults of the Tories may be regarded as its natural
coacomitant. But that journals professing, or wishing
themselves to come under the denomination of liberal,
should bay their foul-mouthed malice against the individual
who has rendered the most essential service to the cause!
with which they affect to be associated, is one of those
phenomena which provoke the question—
" Can such things be,
And overcome us like a summer cloud,
Without our special wonder ?"
These journals of extraordir:ary liberalism charge his
Lordship with a crime of no less neagnitude than that of
playing into the hands of the Tories. Now, if the whole
life of his Lordship did not stamp "mu" on the ac-
cusation, we would ttek grave charge founded? on what grounds is such a
The reply must cover the
liberal enemies of h'.3 Lordship with utter confusion,ae fur.
nishing the evidence of their own condemnation, Lord
Brougham is *accused of
py g the game of the Tories,
the
lain
because
Canal ause he espposed the
aplication of a coercive police to
as, which, p
as he foretold, provoked an insurrec-
tion in these provinces. He is accnsed of coalescing with
the Tories, because, with an erne,rgv and ability of which no
other man in the British dreminion; was capable, he urged
forward
.the abolition of the negro apprenticeship system--
an acquiescenee in which would have secured to the Cen-
ptral Governmeei the merit of an act which is already in
rogress of accomplishment without its interference. He
accused of conspiring with the Tories, because he
olueosed the enactment of a Poor-law for Ireland—
'universally condemned by the rich and the poor, the Tries
and the Reformers of that country. He is ace'Ssed of
consorting with the Tories, because be asked ;or the pro-
duction of papers in reference to our feer,",g, policy, which
subsequent admissions proved to 'ee e tit subject of inquiry,
as involving to a serious maws', the question of peace or
war with other nations. teseee are the grounds of accusa-
tion. We challenge t.iite most malevolent of his Lordship's
?pponents to brinte, forward any other. And what do these
imply ? Whas.,-but a, most anxious and judicious vigilance
over the bee. interests of the country ? If this be playing
thWe e gam'. of Toryism, we at least wish success to the game.
IThrider the utterers of such calumnies should be so
stutefied by the spirit of detraction as not to perceive that
ia placing the Tories in such an association they are
giving them the best recommendation to the country.
Fortunately, the principles of Lord Brougham's whole
life are sufficient guarantees against their taking advan-
tage of the opportunity which them uddled 'malice of spu-
rious Liberalism lays open to lf any proof were
lwanting of Lord Brougham's being the man of all others
east influenced by personal considerations, it is presented
in the fact of his at present standing isolated from all
parties. A man of ignoble ambition, even with a ge-
nius of less intellectual pre-eminence than is possessed
by Lord Brougham,
conflict of parties, might easil
find y, midst the present
cation. But his Lor oppunities for its gratifi-
enlightened dshi ortp
stands alone, appeals to the
principles of justice and policy, and to the
R intelliese':Ate of the community he appeals from
the: selfism s
parties to the impartial pirit of th
time, and for this is he accused by both sides of act-
e
mg in opposition to the national welfare, when he is
tnere Y
olpposing the interests of faction or the pro-
gi ress of injudicious legislation. Such accusation is the
hghest tribute that could be offered to the integrity of
Lord Brougham's principles : the power of his genius
has already been so forcibly felt in
its effects as to pre-
clude the possibility of a commensurate panegyric. We
lave stated the grounds of the multiplied attacks which
leave been made upon Lord Brougham, in order that
the public may fairly judge of the nature of the offence
which has excited the condemnation of the opposing hosts
who slaughter each other in wordy war, while legislation
stands, like the sun in the valley of Ajalon, waiting the
catastrophe of the affray in a state of complacent expecta-
tion. There is nothing more easy than to impute motives,
and by this means the worst acts may be vindicated, or
the best condemned ; but discarding this test of conduct,
which, by the way, would be a terrific ordeal for the ca-
lumniators of Lord Brougham, we judge acts by their
effects, and defy his accusers to adduce a single instance
in the present session, we might say in his whole life,
wherein his political conduct was not actuated by the most
honest regard for his country's welfare, and the most en-
lightened principle of legislation.—Morning Advertiser.
Before going into a Committee last night on the Irish
Municipal Bill, Lord Lyndhurst stated, in a clear and lu-
minous speech, the principles on which they ought to pro-
ceed in fixing the qualification, &c. With respect to the
towns in schedule A, which were large and populous, there
was no intention on the part of Noble Lords on his side of
the House to object to Corporations being granted to them ;
but with respect to the towns in schedule B, many of which
which were small and posseseed of little or .no property,
it had occurred to him and many other Noble Lords that
it would be highly unjust to force Corporations on them, but
that it should be left to the towns themselves—if a majority
of the rated inhabitants were so inclined—to apply to
the Crown for charters. With respect to the quali-
fication he proposed that it should be 101., includ-
ing . rent, allowance for repairs, and insurance.—
His amendment was, " The qualification should be
of the yearly value of not less than 101., to be
ascertained and determined as hereinafter mentioned."
" The first question," added the Noble and Learned Lord,
" was, whether the House would accede to the proposition for
raising the value to 10/. ; and the next was, whether they
thought his mode of ascertaining the value was correct. He
proposed to continue his amendment, And such yearly value
shall be ascertained and determined in the manner following,
and not otherwise ; that is to say, it shall be composed of the
value of the premises rated as they are hereby required to be
under the provisions of an Act made and passed in the present
Session of Parliament, entitled An Act for the Reliefof the Poor
in Ireland,' and of the amount of the sum at which the landlord's
repairs and insurance is estimated in such rate.' Their Lord-
ships were already aware that by an amendment introduced
into the Poor Relief Bill there was a schedule attached to it in
reference to the rating, in one column of which were mentioned
the landlord's repairs, while in the other the insurance was set
out. The Poor-law Commissioners were to appoint valuers,
and the valuers were to act under their orders, and the
rates were to be made under their direction, and these points
were to be ascertained in the rate, and the persons, therefore,
who were to decide on the qualification would have only to
take the three sums which he had mentioned."
Lord Melbourne complimented the Noble and Learned
Lord on the fairness of his statement. He differed, how-
ever, as to the leaving it to the towns in schedule B to ap-
ply for charters. There might be many reasons, internal
dissensions and feuds, which might prevent an application ;
whereas, if the Corporations were given at once they
would be well received, and they would be conferring
on the towns a form of government which was now
admitted generally to be productive of advantage and
benefit. Lord Wicklow always considered that this
Reform ought to be granted : he knew that it was only a
question of time, and it was therefore peculiarly satisfactory
to him that the session would not be allowed to, pass with-
out the adoption of a satisfactory measure. With respect
to the qualification, he feared that there woulkbe much
difficulty in arriving at a perfect knowledge of what the re-
pairs and insurance might be, and he should prefer a bona
fide qualification fixed at a lower nominal amount on the
rating. In Committee Lord Lrndhurst's amendment,
to the effect that Corporations should be forced only on part
of the towns, was agreed to without a division. The other
amendment of Lord Lyndhurst, that the 101. be composed of
rent, repairs, and insurance, was opposed by Lord Melbourne.
It would appear, from an answer returned by Lord Lynd-
hurst to an observation from Lord Melbourne which was
not heard, that the latter had suggested the fixing the
qualification at 8/. rent, thus getting rid of the perplexity of
determining the allowance for repairs and insurance. On
a division the amendment was carried by 96 to 36. The
House having resumed, the report was ordered tole re-
ceived on Tuesday next. Lord Brougham was present ;
but there baying been little room for factious display, his
peculiar talents were not in requisition. He was observed
to be very fidgetty throughout the evening, from want of
opportunity, no doubt, to vent the spite with which he
overflows against the Ministers, who would not employ him
because they could not trust him.—Norning Chronicle.
The Ministerialists are delighted, and this is the only
evidence we can adduce of good sense or good taste on
their part, whenever it happens that the Duke of Welling-
ton lends to their leaders a helping hand, and saves them
from the inconvenience or the castigation which, but for
the tender mercy of the Noble Duke, would manifestly
have been their lot. On all such occsi
ons the Noble
Duke is compelled to endure culogiums which might surely
be regarded, even were his Grace clearly in the wrong,
which, by the by, very seldom happens, as an adequate in-
fliction, although our ardent and eager
con-
temporaries were to be more sparing than Conservative
than some of them
are willing to be of their censure. To these different
species of retribut'on his Grace, fortunately for his own
peace, and most advantageously for his reputation and
dignity as a statesman, is, we believe, equally insensible.
He pursues his honourable and straightforward course, re-
gardless alike of the exultation which may glow in the co-
lumns of the Courier and Globe, sympathising with the
feelings of their party ; and of the censure expressed or
insinuated by other journals, sympathising with nobody but
each other. When Lord Brougham moved, the other
night, in the House of Lords, for a copy of the instruc-
tions issued to the officer in command of her Majesty's
ships on the coast of Spain, for preventing the vessels of

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,
THIS DAY.

Mr. O'CONNELL thought it right to state that the case that had
arisen in Ireland, of a diff,rent chaplain being appointed from the
person approved by the diocesan, could not oceur in England,
In that country the Roman Catholic clergyman was merely a mis_
sionary, and had no permanent jurisdiction in his parish. The only
instance that had occurred in Ireland was where the Grand Jury of the
county of Cork had appointed to the situation of Chaplain a person who
had no spiritual jurisdiction in the district.—(Hear, hear.)
Hr. OLADSTONE thought it would be convenient to the Corn.
mittee if the Hon. Member for Knaresboro' would state whether he
would accede to the proposition for postponing his amendment.
Mr. HAWES hoped the Hon. Member would postpone it, and that in
the meantime he would attend to the wording of his amendment, so as
to obviate any objections that might arise. He would merely in addi.
tion state, that in the Coldbath.fields prison there were 130 Roman
Catholies confined.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had entertained great doubts about the pro.
priety of introducing such a clause in the Bill, His objection
arose from the difficulty of so guarding it as that the Dissenters,
who were in smaller number, might not claim religious instruc.
tion on the same principle upon which it had been acceded to the
Roman Catholics, and that it would be difficult so to arrange it as to
prevent an interference with the proper superintendence and discipline
of the prison.
Mr. LANGDALE would acquiesce in the suggestion of the Right
Hon. Baronet, and postpone the amendment —(Hear.) He hoped, When
he again brought it forward, it would receive-the favourable considers.
tion of Hen. Members opposite.
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses up to 12 were agreed to.
On clause 13 being proposed,
Lord G. SOMERSET proposed to insert the words "after con.

viction."

Mr. CLAY thought the clause ought to be more carefully considered.
Lord J. RUSSELL defended the cause, thinking it would be a
benefit to separate persons who might be innocent from the most de-
praved characters.

Sir J. GRAHA 3f concurred in opinion with the Noble Lord.
Sir E. WILMOT thought the difficulty might be got over by insert.
Lng a proviso to the effect that no separation should take place before
,rial without an order of the visiting Magistrates.
After a few remarks from Mr. Hume, Mr. Gibson, and Lord G.

Somerset,

The clause was postponed.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress. and obtained leave to sit
again to-morrow.

The House resumed.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he proposed to l•rocee I with the Irish

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS, Sardinia, Rolland, VI- other neutral nations from entering
the portk a that country, the First Lord of the Aclm'ralty
vapoured very foolishly and every criminally about a very
foolish and a very criminal treaty, as if that treaty could
overthrow the law of nations. So long as this offensive va-
pouring of a senseless and lawless man in high office was
continued, the Duke of Wellington thought it his duty to
support Lord Brougham's motion. But the First Lord
of the Treasury, as well as the First Lord of the
Admiralty was present, and the former had saga-
city enough to perceive that if the bark of the Administra-
tion was to be saved, his Noble Colleague of the Admi-
ralty must Le thrown overboard--and overboard accord-
ing]; the Admiralty Lord went. Lord Melbourne per-
fectly agreed with every word that every body said against
the monstrous argument of his Admiralty Colleague. He
admitted that the Quadruple Treaty was no justification of
any instructions inimical to neutral rights. He declared
loudly that he did not concur with his Admiralty Colleague
in giving to the Quadruple Treaty an interpetration which
would have placed England, of necessity, in a state of war
with any other country in the world that did as much in
favour of Don Carlos as England had bound herself by
treaty to do in tivour of the enemies of that Prince. He
entreated the House to reject the motion upon the ground,
simply and exclusively, that to call for the instructions
given to the officer in command of her Majesty's ships on
the Coast of Spain would be a source of embarrass-
ment to the Queen's Government, and detrimental to the
public service. This appeal the Duke of Wellington did
not think it a duty to withstand, although many Peers who
generally vote with the Noble Duke thought it their duty
to disregard it. It may seem paradoxical to express the
opinion that neither the Noble Duke nor those of his
friends who separated themselves from him upon this occa-
sion were in the wrong. But the only difference between
them, as it appears to us, is that they regarded the subject
from different points of view. The Noble Duke thought
liirnself bound to believe the assertion of Lord Melbourne,
or to act as if he believed it ; and, therefore, it was the
plain duty of his Grace to dissuade the House from the
adoption of a motion for the production of instructions
given by the Government to one of its officers, the produc-
tion of which, according to the solemn deciaration of the
head of the Queen's Government, would have been a source
of embarrassment to the Government, and of injury to the
public service. The Conservative Peers, on the contrary,
who voted in favour of Lord Brougham's motion, did not
think themselves bound to believe what Lord Melbourne
said, and, in fact, did not believe it. They regarded his
statement merely as an easy mode of getting rid of an in-
convenient 'motion. When such men as the Duke of
Wellington on the one hand and those Conservative Peers
on the other who supported Lord Brougham's motion, take
different views of any subject, we feel that there must be
some presumption in venturing to decide which of the two
views is the more correct. We believe Lord Melbourne's
assertion respecting injury to the public service just as little
as any of the Peers who refused to allow it any weight. It is
clear enough that the lawless instructions were issued. It is
clear enough that they would have been acted upon had not
Sardinia avoided any occasion of calling them into operation.
It is clear enough that such instructions as Lord Brougham
described are repugnant (for this Lord Melbourne ad-
mitted) to the law of nations. It is clear enough that
there could be no injury to the public service from the
publication of instructions which must long ago have been
well known to the Powers whom they affected, and against
which these Powers bad not (so far as appears) made any
remonstrance. These are considerations which must have
had much weight, and were entitled to much weight, with
the 'great body of any numerous deliberative assembly.
But it must be admitted also that the precedent of calling
for a copy of instructions to an officer or officers, in de-
fiance of the opinion thst their promulgation would be de-
trimental to the public service, pronounced by the head of
the existing Government, would have been a precedent
which a far-sighted statesman like the Duke of Wellington
might justly dread.—Morning Post.

SECOND EDITION.
SUN OFFICE, Seven o'Clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
(Continued from our First Edition.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool
appeared to have a strange idea about the voluntary principle. The
word " toleration" had been used in this debate, but he had hoped that
he should net have heard that word made use of in the House.—
(Hear, hear.) He denied the right of the House to tell any man not to
believe that which his conscience told him to be true. The Hon.
Member for Newark had said this was a new principle—
Mr. GLADSTONE--In England.
Mr. O'CONNELL—It was an old principle in Ireland—there-
fore he would say, " justice to England."—(Hear, and laughter.)
The question was not whether it was a new principle, but whether it
was a good principle. The good principle was to forward the morality of
every man by instructing him according to his religious persuasion, and
he hoped the House would show itself determined to give the relief
sought.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME would take leave to ask whether there could be a better
time for the reformation of criminals than when they were under soli-
tary confinement; and looking at the question in a pecuniary point
of view, he would ask could a small sum of money be expended in a
better way than affording religious instruction to our fellow creatures ?
(Hear, hear.)
Lord STANLEY said that if by giving a vote in favour of the motion
of the Hon. Gentleman opposite he thought he was casting a stigma on
the Established Church, he should have great hesitation in doing so.
Those who were locked up in gaols were placed in a peculiar position—
they wore placed in a pcsiti on by which they were separated from the super-
intendence and control of those to whom they would resort for religious
instruction without imposing any burthen on the State. By adopting
the principle of the Hon. Gentleman, they were not introducing any
principle that had not already been sanctioned by the Legislature,
because it had already been adopted in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) For his
own part he should feel bound to vote in favour of the principle of the
amendment proposed by the Hon. Member. He was not willing to
lose the opportunity (if opportunity there might be) of reclaiming so
large a portion of the vicious and dissolute.—(Hear, hear.) He had made
these few observations because he felt himself called upon to state the
ground on which he supported the principle in opposition to many of
those with whom on Church questions he was generally disposed to
act.--(Cheers )
Mr. ESTCOURT felt bound to object to the proposition, because the
prisoners were not now without spiritual instruction.
Mr. SHEIL wished to call the attention of the House to the Act of
Parliament, the 7th Geo. IV., chap. 74, which was introduced by Lord
Liverpool, while the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir K. Peel) was at the head
of the Home Department, and the Right Hon. Member for Cambridge
(Mr. Goulburn) was Secretary for Ireland. That Act allowed the in.
troductinn of Chaplains into gaols, not only belonging to the Established
Church, but also to the Presbyterian and the Catholic persuasion•. Surely,
if the principle were good.in Ireland, it would work well in England.
Sir R. PEEL said it was very unfortunate that it was not better
known that the question was to come on that day, and he would suggest
that it would be better that the Hon. Member should then withdraw his
motion, amend it, and bring it under the consideration of the House
upon a full notice, upon the third reading of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
He believed that there were not ten gaols in England in which
the Bill would come into operation, and if the principle were good for
Shy, why not for five. It was a grave question, and required very
great consideration. The question of toleration ought not to be intro-
duced on such an occasion. He certainly thought it would be a viola..
tion of the principles of toleration, if a Catholic prisoner were obliged
to attend upon the ministrations of a worship, in the creed of which he
did not believe. A little time for consideration, he thought, would be
likely to lead to a good result.
Mr.THORNELY wished to mention one fact. It was stated in the Re.
port of the Inspectors that in the month of August 1837, there were
confined in the Borough gaol of Liverpool, 519 prisoners. Of that
number, 214 belonged to the Established Church ; there were 174 Ro-
man Catholics; Methodists, 8; Baptists 1 ; Unitarians, 2 ; Presbyte.
rians, 17; Independents, I.—(A laugh.) Now, it was evident that
when there were so many Itoinan Catholics, some religious instruction
should be provided, and whenever the Honourable Member for Liverpool
brought for s'ard his amendment, he (Mr. Thornely) would give it his
decided support. As regarded the other denomination of Dissenter.,
there was not so much objection on their part to joining in the public
worship of the Church of England, but he trusted the pees/gar position
in which the Roman Catholics were placed, would induce both sides of
the House to give the motion their support when it was next brought
forward.
Lord SANDON had no objection to accede to the proposition, if it
could be done consistently with safety to the interests of the Esta-
blished Church.