The Sun.
London, England, 1822-06-29 00:00:00

PETITION FROM MR. BORTIIWICK.

Mr. ABERCROMBY presented a Petition from Win. 313
Borthwick, with whose name the House were already in some
degree acquainted, from the statement which be (Mr. Aber-
eromby) had made on a former night. This Petition set forth
the persecutions to which he had been subjected, the inaimer
in which he had been imprisoned and loaded with irons, tire,a
charge of stealing property which was proved to be his own ;
but he was not aware that the Petition contained any fact
which he (Mr. Abeicromby) had not stated on Tues,:ay, with
the exception of his repositories having been broken open,
and his papers examined, whilst he was in custody. For the
wrongs he had sustained he had received no compensation.
He had received part of his expences in one instance, but he
had had no compensation for the injuries of which he corn.
plained. He wished the House to remember by whom these
wrongs had been offered. He had received them from the pub-
lic, as he had received them from those who acted in the name
of the King and on behalf of the public, and therefore he could
apply'no where but to that House for redress. He did not
bring this Petition forward under very favourable circurn-
stanceS, that House haVing already decided that they would
not inquire into the merits of the case. Perhaps he should be
told that Mr. Borthwick would have his remedy by pro.
ceeding against the informer of the Lord Advocate. But
what 'remedy had he, wanting the means to bring tin action ?
And who was theinforrou of the Learned Lord ? Why, Mr.
Borthwick's bankrupt partner Alexander;_ who was nos in
prison. 'The should then be told that Mr. Borthytick had one
action good against the Lord Advocate, he should call this
adding mockery to injustice. If Mr. Borthwick had the right
to bring such action, which he (Mr. Aberdomby) denied, how
was a man in his circumstances to oppose himself to the whole
power of the: Crown Lawyers in Scotland ? He had said this
much with respect to the individual, but he now called on the
House, if they considered themselves the Representatives of a
free people, to look at the case as one in which the most sacred
rights of the subject had been violated, as an individual had
been deprived of the greatest of all blessings, personal liberty.
Considering that a great wrong had been done to the subjects
of this country in the person of Mr. Borthwick, he (Mr.
Abercromby) would not desert his cause, till he had again
failed to induce them to go into an inquiry, or till having esta-
blished the facts (which he felt assured he could do to the sa-
tisfaction of the rest of the world, and hoped, therefore, he could
do to the satisfaction of that House), they should say, " we are
prepared to declare he is not intitled to redress." If he proved
the facts and obtained no redress, it would be for the friends of
the law and constitution to consider what was the condition of
Scotland, if a man might be :seized, as Mr. Borthwick had
been, ironed, carried from place to place, guarded with loaded
fire-arms, confined for seventy days, and at last liberated with-
out being brought to trial. 31r. Northwick he (Mr. Aber-
cromby) had never seen. Of his former life he knew nothing,
but this he knew, that in the communications which he had
with that individual, he (Mr. Borthwick) appeared most care-
ful that no statement should pass that at all deviated from
truth, and he (Mr. A.) was not more anxious to avoid mis-
leading that House than Mr. Borthwick had been to avoid mis-
leading him.
The MarquiS of LONDONDERRY did not at all object to
the biinging up of the Petition. He rose but to say he did
not conceive the House to have come to any decision whatever
on the case of Mr. Borthwick. On a former night he had
argued, that respectingg that individual there was-nothing be-
fore that House, and th.at his case ought not to influence the
vote they were then called upon to give. He felt that it
was quite open for hitt to look at that question. If the Ho-
nourable and Learned Gentleman called for information, he
did not say it might not be necessary to take some steps-on
that information. He nteiely stated this, that it might not be
considered' the Petition was presented tinder any discouraging
circumstances.—:Mr. ABERCROMBY explained.
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND had no'objee-
tion to the Petition being brought up. He had made little inquiry

on the subject. When he was in Scotland he had not expected
that a motion, notice of which had been given on the 4th April,
would inclaide matters which had not oscurred till after that
period. The warrant under which Mr. Borthwick had been
arrested, directed, as all warrants did, that he should be com-
mitted to a secure prisons In consequence he was committed
to the jail of Dundee, and had been thence removed at his own
request, expressed in writing. When it should be seen On what
grounds his Learned Friend and Deputy in Scotland had
acted, he was confident that they woitld be satisfactory to the
House. All he now asked was, that they would suspend their
judgment till the case should be fairly before them.
Lord BINNING said, a very near and dear relation of his
was concerned in the late proceedings. So far as that indi-
vidual was concerned, he had no wish that the inquiry should
he stifled, but quite the contrary. He for one should give a
willing vote for the papers which were to be moved for, and
since their production was not to be opposed, he implored the
House to keep themselves open to form an unbiassed judg-
ment on the merits of the case. Aggravations enough were
already abroad. Till the Papers were before them, to enable
them to come to a fair disposition, he hoped the ouse would
suspend its judgment, and this was all he asked.
Mr. BROUGHAM would repeat the call just made by the
Noble Lord—he would repeat it on the part of that side of the
House. Since now an inquiry was to take place (which he had
always foresaw would be the case), let every Member who
would have to pronounce judgment on the conduct of the Crown
Lawyers of Scotland, keep his mind free from all bias and par-
tiality. They (the Crown Lawyers of Scotland) were now on
their trial, and they had the right in common with all other
persons to have their trial conducted impartially before fair and
unbiassed judges. But while he admitted this, he marvelled
that the doctrine which had been contended for eight and forty
hours before on that side of the House—he marvelled that the
soundness Of that doctrine had not then struck those who were
now its advocates. All they (the Opposition) then demanded
was inquiry. They had said, be not premature. Do not con-
demn. God forbid ! without inquiry; but do not acquit with-
out inquiry: He had called on them but to entertain in-
quiry, that witnesses might be called to prcrre facts. But
it had pleased that House in its wisdom or in its justice, or
under the impression of the Noble Lord's eloquence, to say,
" No, we will do nothing." They declined examining wit-
nesses who might prove the facts, or calling for documents
which might back up the testimony of such witnesses, and
declared " because matters are made out of the grossest nas
ture that ever came before the House touching the liberty of
the subject,, and the administration of justice, we, the House
of Commons, will sanction no inquiry." Ile was delighted
that they had found themselves mistaken on the other side.
He was also delighted that the House found itself mistaken
in the decision to which it had come, and that inquiry was
now admitted to be necessary. He must once more protest
against one view which the Noble Lord had taken ; in every
other respect he entirely coincided with hiM. He had said that
lie thought a Member had no ground for demanding an inquiry
unless he produced documents in proof of his case, or moved
that certain documents should be laid upon the table. This
was not the constitutional practice. A statement of any Mem-
ber was sufficient to demand inquiry. Common fame was a
fair ground for impeachment ; rumour had been a ground Of
impeachment ; therefore it was absurd to say, that a statement
from an Hon. Member, founded upon information obtained from
private sources, would not warrant the House in going at once
to an inquiry. The Noble Earl said, that documents alone
could be evidence, and. that parole evidence could not be ob-.
tamed. Now the effect of documentary evidence would be only
to shew half the case, the other halt being to be supplied by
parole, and to puzzle a Counsel, without ebeiting the truthsss.
Such a way of proceeding in the present case would only be an
insult to the country and to that House.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that although the*
House could grant an inquiry even upon the grounds of coms
it could alsoexeis
rumour,
; as
e w
its discretion sttahetegrmaennistisnogf
in°berl,
Mr. WYNN thought the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
exercise
as upon thei n
of it.
stated the case too broadly, when he said that rumour was suf-
ficient ground for, proceeding to inquiry. If parole-evidence
wee.; to be received in any case, then it must be before a
Committee. as that was the only place where it could be re-
ceived. When the documents about to be moved for were be=
fore the House. it would then be for them to consider whether
ulterior proceedings would be necessary.
Mr. J. P. GRANT expressed his satisfaction at the deci-
sion of Ministers, and stated, that he never gate a vote with
so much personal pain, as that upon the former discussion of
this 9uestion. He took an opportunity of stating this, and of
bearing testimony to the feeling and rectitude with which the
Lord Advocate had exercised the duties of his office upon all
other occasions.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY felt it necessary that
both sides should understand each other as to what they were
doing, and he must say, that he made no change whatever in
his opinions upon the question. He thought upon the former
occasion that there was not sufficient ground in the Hon. and
Learned Member's statement, for the House to proceed to an
inquiry upon ; and he now wished that all the evidence not
then supplied should conic before them, in ordet that they
should possess the means of deciding upon the chars'es.s.s
He did not wish to be understood as pledging himself tci
any, particular course of proceedin upon that information when
it came before them. He should not consider himself as
pledged to any thing by supporting the production of the
papers.
(fiord A. HAMILTON said, that what had fallen from the
Noble and Learned Lord upon the subject of his action, was
the thoet gross in substance of any thing he had ever heard.-s
When the Noble and Learned Lord stated that he had only ob-
tained a shilling damages, and raised a cheer among those who
surrounded him, he took care to suppress the main point that
the Jury found a verdict for him upon all the counts. His miss
fortune was, that lie went into Court with clean hands ; for the
Judge stated that it was, the goodness, not the badness, of his
character that ought to lessen the damages.—(Hear
Noble Lord had done this once to serve a purpose which was
no* past ; and he hoped that for the sake of his own character
he would not repeat what was a gross mists presentation in efs
feet, although he would not say it was a wilful one.
The Petition being read,
Mr. ABERCROMBY said, that in moving that the Peti-
tion do lie upon the table, he wished to say a few words in
order that the House might understand his object. As far as
regarded the case of Borthwick, as it chiefly related to judicial
proceedings, documents alone would not be sufficient, and
without parole evidence the ease could not be established.
There were two material points involved in the question ; the
one was the treatnient which Borthwick had received as an in-
dividual, and the next was. the sittiatlon in which the Learned
Lord stood in respect to his deputies. It was necessary to have
parole evidence in Gram to spew his connection with their acts.
The only documents to be produced upon that point, must be
she letters Which had passed between the parties. But these
might be of a private nature, and he did not mean to speak
disrespectfully, but only in a constitutional sense, when he
said that they should have no proof of the authenticity, of
such letters. • He wished to say one word as to what had
been said of the manner in which he had brought this mat-
ter forward. It was objected that he ought not to have in-
troduced the case of Borthwick in his motion. But, although
he was willing to release the Noble and Learned Lord from
the responsibility of acts committed in his absence, yet his
deputies were bound in duty, to communicate to him what-
' ever took place, and it was equally his duty to require that
they did so. With regard to the general tone in which
he had treated the subject, if he had charges to prefer he
knew of• no proper way of doing so but that of stating them
clearly and directly. Of Mr. Hope he knew nothing, for
he believed he had never seen that Gentleman in his life.
But: the deep respect and veneration . which lie must feel for
the head of his family precluded all possibility of any preju-
diced motives.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY again stated the neces-
sity of the House having a clear understanding upon the sub-
ject. When the documents should be before the House they
would probably contain some further information than had been
given by the Hon. and Learned. Member, and some other Mem-
bers would then perhaps be enabled to say something on the
other side of the question. It would then be for them to decide
whether any further inquiry would be necessary or not. He
thought there was a case at present upon which more informa-
tion was desirable. But they were pledged to no further in-
quiry by admitting that information.
After a few words from Lord IliwsrtTo and the Loan AD-
vocATE,- the petition was ordered to lie upon the table. '
CALAMITY AT CONSTANTINOPLE.

Mr. W. SMIT1:1 wished to put a question to the Noble
Marquis opposite, on a subject which was of the greatest inte-
rest, not only to the British nation, but also to the whole Euro-
pean community. There had that day appeared in the public

prints accounts of certain transactions at•ConStantinople, which
could not fail to excite the strongest sensations of horror in the
mind of every man who read them.—(Hear, hear.)—.He knew
some individuals that took a deeper interest than could possibly
be entertained by any British heart.-4lfear, hear )—:Hethere-
fore wished to ask the Noble Matt:pus, -whether he had received
any official accounts frOm our Minister at Constantinople, or
our diplomatic agents elsewhere, which enabled him to judge
of the correctness of the accounts in question ?
The Marquii of LONDONDERRY gave an answer, of
Which the first part was (juke inaudible in the gallerY. •We
afterwards understood him to sir, that Government was in
possession of the fact, that 10 or 12 of the hostages for the pen,
ple of Scio had been executed at Constantinople, but not ofany
details regarding it. A calamity. had oecurre4.-and he could
not describe the transaction alluded to by any other name—a
calamity had occurred which had arisen out of the peculiar
acts of barbarity which had been perpetrated on both sides
during the wat in the island of Scio.. Acts of barbarity, he
repeated it, had been committed on both sides.—(Hear.)—The
Greeks had themselves committed certain cruelties, which,
though they did not justify, led to, the transactions complained
Of.--4 Heat.)
Itir..W. SMITH said, that he was rather inclined to think
that, instead of 12 or 15, 85 persons had suffered death by the'
hands of the executioner. He had asked the question in order
to obtain some precise information upon it. Though the public
would scarcely believe the fact, he had been told by a person
who was in the town at the time of the execution, though he
could not bring himself to witness it, that six persons had been
impaled alive, who had committed no other crime than that of
becoming hostages for their fellow-countrymen at Scio--:
(Hear.)
Sir J. MACItINTOSI-1 would put a question to the Noble
Lord, which would bring the matter home at once to the ho,
nour and the feeling of the British nation. He asked hith,
whether any dispatches had been received from OUT Ainbassa-
dor at the Ottoman Porte, from which it could be.ascertained
whether any of those pefsons who had been murdered by the
barbarous tyrants at Constantinople had been under the pro-
tection of the British Minister, Lord Strangford, or hid sur-
rendered themselves to the Turks under any pledge, promise,
or assurance of safety from that Nobleman ?—(lieat!)—He
would also take the opportunity of asking the Noble Marquis,
whether it was mentioned in any of the recent dispatches he
had received, that the markets of Smyrna and Constantinople
were filled with amiable Greek ladies and children, offered to
the caprices of barbarous Mahornedan voluptuaries ? Ile asked
whether Ministers could afford the nation any account of the
new slave trade, recently established in the east, for amiable
and accomplished Christian females, by a government which
was encouraged and supported by the Administration of this
free and enlightened country P--(Hear I)
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY in reply stated, that
the question of the lion. and Learned Gentleman involved an
argimient as well as a question, and that if he wanted an an-
swer to his argument, he mtist bring
.it forward upon another
occasion. He believed that 80 or 00 individuals had recently
been executed at Constantinople, but several of them were' in-
habitants of the Morea, and, as lie was informed, not more than
10 or 12 of them hostages ftom Scio: Those persons could not
he considered in qtly degree under the protection of the British
Government, or in such a situation as to require our interfer-
ende upon the principle of protection. Upon the principle of
good offices, Lord Strangford, much to his own honour and
that of the Government he represented—(Hear !)—had fre-
quently interposed: That interposition had in geniral been fa.:
vourably received ; and there had once been reason to hope
that the hostages from Scio were in perfect security. How far
the determination of the Turkish Government upon that point
had been altered by subsequent information, he could not tell ;
for, as to the hostages from Scio, he had not at present suffi-:
cient information: