The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-13 00:00:00

1

-1 ineen liarisin ?—(Cheers. ) It is impossible to express
abhorrence which every man I els at sue!, sets; ""d!
Inest unjust for any niad to charge the Mcinbetsol Lis
It
1
arrest
Goverioneut with being indiffei cut to them.,v..
an
:Juld be time enough for any Irian to make so
.11Ln%!
put
.tlisation when he should have seen that they did t
the
'1 their utmost force to repress them— using
only
of the
kt,guage of persuasion, and not availing themselves .
•ans with which the laws and the Constitution had po-
led thera--(Hear, hear.)
I. length
Mr. PERCEVAL was sorry he could not
approving
letter to
eancellor of the Exchequer had given, of his
hear')
the explanation which the N.ogbole tileord the
Chaircnan of the Birmingham meeting.—("e--;• ]angry
An Bore MseartEit thought that too much ob
gntage ,hail been used in the course of that discussion._f
e thought that it might, perhaps, have been better hisavoidedi
()hie Friend (the Paymaster of the Forces)
"ii o'4e of so offensive a term as " faction,"
as a small
)la,rt;a.thercidesig '
h designated the opposers of
Billall which his Noble
lei 4l] ian'eant- to hads no doubt tisimata_al andhad that he
that ac
e just Wishes of -5 beers,
hoofsilieth t of people.--Hear,
lember for
11 phaeratry.
hear.) He
e againstivoi
a opportunity of assuring the H.on..
A the county
r at
that the progress of the election in .
.ons of
borset was not to hetaken as a test of the opinions ''Aef°r4.4,ftr,,large upon the quedstitobneofatteekr
upon Lord.
i tarry,fidondztt‘al OR
he
w.itnesse
len of eer? it as a very bad speee-
f the trail •
The town had been
Iwhiceli6tteedGnovpenrnnment proposed to take
i copied
by
lawless and
i °m
h° one end to the other a
all those
h 4 ninded mob, ready t€, attack the
th:o had conscientiously opposed the ofmolsitverscv.olu_tioant.a.ray_
l'a'ore that had ever been proposed to the British P i'
11S;.--iitIebilleterw.r)e
lx"epr",:Titlioos of theg dispositions of the people as,
regretted that persons who entertained
e
' exe**itted tb,,Y, the last spea-ker, shoduidhl
bteaktebsi
Xeept sae,
,41--(Hear. ) Nor painsonkinuancynthing,
he , "egguage, could be more calculated. to urgetban
he
cili,e(olprire to a vehement expression of their feelings ,
th,). "ii 4, ation of the non. Member for Corfe C._ast(liejetall..a.;
tat f,,a' become less desirous of
Wag „,;41 what did that Hon. Gentleman infer tehratbtehfcerree
been
"1,04 a change of opinion ? Had there ever
on
any
qetell vuch proofs of universal agreementl
they
In also?
aigte: Was it ever before known that a
district of the metropolis had been Lidosed,shaonpda
affottlin inasess had been suspended, for
.the purpose of
that thug to the inhabitants an opportunity of nzie"asl
Was n 1" to
were unchanged, and that
?their
What-
ever vici,t Itabated, but had been increased
day to
t°ll'ellee had been committed,
of t e close, pas not to be attributed to the concoursegreat
tutation
from
Londonderry,"
al. I,„,ite!Fectahle persons who accompanied the P
ilight:s4 address to the King. No individual sdueffet red the
in the
prote, ! niolestation from those who took p
if t 1 Na---(Cries of " the Marquis °I. Lwn.en-ndt
luvii.)th
csii',ei bnu)ll'e of Wellington," " Lord Bristol," from the 0
with the
tht
4'ddr 7e4ebes•) The deputation which
atha of to to to his 1+ he
were not to be charged
t'li emc'se who crowded about the Houses of Parliament.
Nian- "Ns Were always assembled upon remarkftuleseocn:
tardss' such as the visits of the King
4.art.."„(11!ar.) tilt the real cause of such manifestations
to the House
kh ,; 'eehng upon the part of assemblages of theto peoplethem.
~.ate irritat'
, sil It to I log language used in
referenceenragedtl at
should be ?
tlit4sgut,iild )tehaltVo4ered that they
were bloody-tniuded fellows
11,,,,111 languagre excite the anger of any set of. ineWnare'sinc-Idd
ithe--,_''ruear.) Ile had thought that the day
latigto ea, who had attained the age of the Honn''.lGpentle-
e h "carp°°.iast addressed the House, could allow themselvesb
atli ied so far by their passions beyond the oubnedrs of
f
ihti4eawluientarY discretion. (Hear.) If any number
t the
Addreasi,_° a,rcornpanied the deputation that day
tr) sue], :',4i5 Alalesty had allowed themselves to with the
hat il,'`l;tteb of 'fu 'y as that Right Hon.
The fee(l!°4l have been. said of them.—(flear,ianG,rleenlaugh.)
tlie Refo'ng of the people in consequence of t ienniaection of
iaralle!ed
la una'„i_t4.' 13'1 by the Home of Lords,
st staio
ofe_tY.iitn the history of England,.
and
(nucle discretion
onitata,:fi,stede:sl
orrizt,)haul
Nothingtl,ere
been
the spirit
.of farctionnal
walaneveir, in such
km
seelfiSithof a Patty
engaged in the if,urtsiiiiittio,el
lla)uguage
tyliieb h' °lleets, could have drawn
hiro, e had that
Member who
tpulte-I(Hear, haar.) Did not the Hon.
6 . 4 Olr, Trnight heard from Hon.or Members near
} a iy,,,ie
Iv, . , evor) designate the
11'41-...a hi ''.;" nn Man had ever before
peohpelaerdofapEonligeldtintdo
and " No,
°°•") wa,:T"Nuinded mob ?_(Hear, hear, When the
1. t to be wondered that they
fore them? No
kan niore IPut elf
4°4 a ealumuY can•)e e done to the
kat . ldn he eould the violence
sbhould be enrage,cl
1.1 'us of Londonderry. regret
(Oh, oh, and hear, hear.)
a ' repeated ,1
than
..5 did , .list
40 man could regret it morecontrary
to the-s-o4,llear, hear.) Nothing " be m
could
more
ebe people,
and
wgotee which he had always given to
Itt° the"fe.i. tlld add, that nothing could be more
ethemselves.
was ' 'rigs of the great mass of the people
was to
be near
that no opportunity of excitement.
contrary
Pied h,, e`'9 ; for the House had been that wh.lle o(e.ocnu:
tainenol"iholenteliscussion about two letters, willclt'ritiing.
disturl)4,te:lt objectionable, and afterwards aho,n)t
Why,
Ivere they
'•---(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.
" Hear,
heara)....„! not trifling (ehement shouts of
ared to
tshat hatiWtere they not trifling, he asked, c?",'Pent ?
(Ileat.) tae they
in times of less general excinim
who
Lad ..)pied
Wheotne did not wonder 'it the efforts of thosee.
`,",the Lill, to retain their unhallowed pou.g,i
to aeoa,'°°aed around him rhohat House,
Wer „ .t for the tenacity of se persons.—(Hear, of the
kopelec. nose who sat around him the representatives
denied
he saw enough
5,...(c."-i(elleers, and er:_. of
He
s
f that
~, " They are.")
they were e'0") There had been too many preolior
Peers.
hey
ot,4,ttThey were the delegabtesbolafmaedf
for
manie
ii'seLintif some, e
iusvdigenattt People then tsoa:
their rights with-
l'e caY5t45.1,4441141 of men."' 'le,n they
tre faction ? And hhearde
4PPlied t}-11' that he was soYrry the Noble Lord 71'17_
_t_
tell-INN
t" term faction to that small party should have e
Heu
44101 iiiiii.o "Plain away his words. —(Cheells;)
I:and Lear-beedatuoved of the course adopted by
the
).:rxpltio
4::l;manberhf.or Al d horn ugh ,iwilo didbaveis a i c , .
Hon.
1 how-f
time oatlio:46t* what
eTsge N‘Nv'ahs'etll'ielrice (mq,ph;ised to the voices o_
*--.Whiitg
,4t Werehisper of a faction ?—(Loud cheers.)
, :,:, the 199 Members of the Mire_
'td tl5-4 . the '`ICI Alembers of that House who
ted
Bents6,l' wishea of the eople and who had disaloPow.,,,
Whole 4:te!, bot a very snP•all l'ction as compared to, ric:,
;"(IlLord 'uil,;:in ? lle, therefore thou'ght, that theerl\,,O.
sue':
eeaar.) 'l,°,t rightly have designated them otl)ion i
that
`l4e 13,,,0
,t.le thought the Hon. Members upon
~...
11151 „ler: "t41O) side, had adopted the most tu%.
Oder; 1,1) that could be devised to produce m
theyi
NlOiyq ot he would not, therefore, say that..,
Possible
that4t the Mischief • nor did be think
.i.
said, who 4,, • ' } iuk whal. lic
: man could really i i .
e_ _
of
t_he pre,ttlatet,l.sed Lord Grey and the oilier :Alenit rns,
of
'yeeili!irgly
Pet, Itdrninistration of conniving at outrages,'Vith what
c'ecirig
eouihitting, them.....-(llear, hear.)
so basely,
aPyin,
().4e supposed that they should act _ .
.e
Itith of tl° „.11,1gil a station and eejoying the confiden`,
tvauld 4 : '`4l', and of ,and
nat; in ?—(Cheers.) What
'
C'etltlernen ventyee 'to
4'l6terßO.
if the y 4..41 uot enjoy the cinlidenc'e of the people , and
(11(a'et. 17' nut be shntqd be glad to know who wools
criedf
say that his Majesty'st
11 beat; i,""' ), Would the lion. Gentleman who
the
People) `l4,' or his friends, njoy the confidence of
it
bat the7.(liedr, and laughter•) On the contrary,_ was
f 'elings of
littithe peep',att, that in the present state of the -, .
noses
t „t.
d•
....e.ctsh,ey co_uhl scarcely venture to show their ,
both sides.)
Woat
_,:'.,,)
--Criernendous cheering from . Hon,
hi,,,,, 441 that state of feeling arise from ? Did
Ministers
had h°eera around hie suppose that his Majesty's
the lien en, able to ins that degree of horror with wine ?
With
11,1)' regarded Airee party opposed to the Ministers, and
con,eii, meh they would regard an,
Party that
should now,
chee:sr'ltti': power in theirs tead ? And if not, what were these
did all th°4?---(elleers, ar.d a laugh.) To what more
did
the at the Iron. Gentleman complained of amou!i._,,
ht.riglish:_poolataneou expression of that feeling with yetthr
4,g4t , emettelt?pat reyard those who deprived them of their
141144)', declari ''sg
the
been
,held in all parts of l_
trzsiy
wouhi
rrieitneeleroest,nopeoltinti:teers
Could any
" people that his
al.
4118111)Pose that thosela npireeestinnts had been occasioned
of iheY Other than the spontaneougs and unanimous feelin.g
4 hilppot°.Ple ? Illind must they be who assent to such
1144, '',...1"' Blind Ml:a Close- around him be, and !g-
-nanle
to
ttoi'eou.7l what passes throughout the country, andu
they
tuPpose., 41114 f, from the lessons of experience, if
part
tr ti e . that such spontaneous manifestation on the
tlio!„, l'e°Ple had occur red onl b time Connivance of the
the ~l-el•a• The public interest Ythat is, the interest of
rc,,,,renPle The
....re ' th—t order and peace should
tt,,‘°"“ssr,.l-lear, hear.) * / rcliiu:Coeuldanot hesitate to say, that
al ; but
Ileitsllt,trug.gle at lee,Ent Leing (tarried on was unequal . .
catcher
tliould there be a doubt that the siruggle roust it
Ibeers ,s. 4°ogh. Considering the situation in which the
tonvi_7o"e PiaCed....(Clieers):—he only wished to carry
stun
licpti.nii to
.their minds.( Hear, hear.) In the Sues terested which they had to decide, they were not. disu -
Portoie Judges.
They Were personally interested in sup,
14w t,,, the ell borough system ; and unfortunately, th
flie4;.! given them the power to decide in their own case 7
and a J
1., When the eace of the country waa endangere ,
"a"f"1 of naenP faction—could stand out against

!the wishes of twenty millions, it was not to be wondered
at that exasperating conduct and offensive language should
lead to violent results.—( Hear, hear.) Ile heard HUH.
Gentlemen calling on his Majesty's Ministeis to put down
the rioters, and to . prevent the acts of incendiarism, as if
those gentlemen themselves did not know, of their own ex-
perience, that it is impossible to prevent those occurrence,
which suddenly arose from accidental causes of excitement.
They had occurred in all periods of our history, and at no
time lead they been more frequent than in October last,
when his Majesty's present Ministers could scarcely be
blamed for them.—( Hear, hear.) Why did not the Hon.
Gentlemen near him come forward then to accuse the
Government which was then in power?—(Hear.) 'Was
it because the objects of the incendiary's rage were then
only corn-stacks, and farm-houses, and barns? Were
these of no consequence ? But now, when an old castle,
or rather the occasional lodging-house of a Peer—for it
was magnified, to give greater importance to the outrage
—when the hem of the garment of the Duke of New-
castle was touched, the Government was held responsible
for not having prevented the accident. To make so
marked a distinction between outrages upon the property
of farmers, and those committed upon tile property of Peers,
did not seem to him to be equal justice to the high and the
low.—(Cheers.) In tile large assemblage of his country-
men which he had that day had tile honour to meet,
there were men as distinguished for talent and property as
any man in that House ; and their sole anxiety was tee
preserve tranquillity. He could not, therefore, patiently
hear them accused as rioters, and the Government blamed
for not publishingproclamations to prevent their assembling.
Mr. TREVOR said that the lion. Member for Middle-
sex had misrepresented Lim. He had not said that the
people of England were bloody-minded ; and he would
take shame to himself if he had been betrayed into the
use of such language towards the great body of his country-
men..—( Hear, hear.) What he had said was, that the
Peers who had opposed the Reform Bill were exposed to
the violence of a bloody-minded snob, urged on by an in-
flammatory Press.—(Hear.) But he did not accuse the
people of England of sympathizing with that mob. If
the Hon. Member for Middlesex had witnessed what he
(Mr. Trevor) saw at the gates of the King's Palace, he
would not deny that the mob was bloody-minded. Their
cries were, " Cut his throat—kill him." Had the Hon.
Member witnessed the conduct of that snob, his own sense
of humanity would have prompted him to respond to what
he (Mr. Trevor) had said respecting them.—(Hear.)
Mr. C. GRANT had listened to the discussion of that
evening with the deepest regret. He was sure it was the
wish of every Member of that House to prevent popular
excesses, and he should have expected] that after all that
had passed it would have been the earnest endeavour, as he
was sure it was the sincere wish of every gentleman, to
avoid any thing that could tend to excite the people.
—(hear, hear, hear.) He had, therefore, heard with
great pain and regret the language which lead fallen from
Honourable Members upon both sides. He was sure that
the indignation of the people of England, who habitually
held the law of the land in the highest respect, would
be excited to a high pitch when they heard that a Peer of
the realm had beers violently attacked because he had done
his duty as a Peer, according tee the conviction of leis own
mind.—(Hear.) For his part, he himself felt such indig-
nation : and he, therefore, deprecated the language which
he had that evening heard from some gentlemen in the
heat of debate. He would implore Hon. Gentlemen not
tee forget so much their own honour and feeling, as to as-
cc ibe to men in high station a deliberate connivance at
the atrocious acts which had recently been committed.
How could any gentleman of generous feeling and noble
thoughts attribute to his Majesty's Ministers a base conni-
vance at popular excesses, which every man must deplore?
—(Cheers.) He knew that many topics lead been argued
which naturally provoked retort and recrimination. But
would the House permit him to implore them to close the
discussion for the peace of this great metropolis, arid for
the tranquillity of the whole country, and for the sake of
eve: y feeling which could move the heart of man.—(Hear,
hear.) He trusted that the majority of the House would
agree with hint in the propriety of bringing to a conclu-
sion a discussion which which was so far from being likely
to promote the peace of the country. —(Cheers.)
Mr. HUNT said, that notwithstanding the admonition
which the House had received From the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman who had just sat down, it was impossible for any
man, who felt for his country, to sit silent on Cleat occa-
siou.—(Hear, hear.) For his part, he would not consent
to do so after the language which he had heard from time
Hon. Member for Middlesex. 'What was the fact? A
Member of the other House of Parliament, the Marquis of
Londonderry, in coming down to do his duty to-night, as
a Member of the Legislature, had been grossly assaulted
by a cowardly mob. I3lood had been shed. A Peer had
been wounded. And the Hon. Member for Middlesex
would leave seat forth to the country that all this was ac-
cident. Was not that an encouragement to mobs to vent
their anger to the utmost upon all those with whose opi-
nions they did not agree ?—(Cheers from the Opposi-
tion.) The Hon. Member for Middlesex did not content
himself with saying that the attack upon the Marquis of
Londonderry- was an accident, but he called the fires in
Nottingham trifling occurrences.—(Bear, hear.) The
Hon. Gentleman compared those outrages to the burning
of corn stacks and farts-houses, by a peasantry driven to
desperation by hunger. But he (Mr. Hunt) had risen to
reply to the Right Hon. Member for Windsor, who, with
a great degree of anger and indignation, had accused
lion. Members upon that (the Opposition) side of the
House, of a perversion of facts. He (Mr. Hunt) did nut
think that they had perverted one fact. But he would ask
the Hon. Member for Windsor, did not he attempt to per-
vert facts ?—(Cheers.) Did he not say that the letters of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer and of the Paymaster of
the Forces had not been addressed to the Birmingham
Union, but to the gentleman who presided at the meeting
which voted thanks to those Noble Lords? Now he (Mr.
H.) must say, that that was a perversion of facts.—
(Cheers.) He did not go the length of accusing the Mi-
nisters of conceiving at the atrocities committed lately, nor
of any thing which might have been done by the multi
tude assembled that day ; but he would remind them that
the meeting at Manchester had been violently dispersed, on
the ground that so great an assemblage of the people was
dangerous to the public peace. The Hon. Member for
Borouglebridge had ace-used the Government of conniving
at the present riots. Whether there might or might not
be foundation for that charge, there could be no doubt that
the Press had put forward threats of the • vengeance
which should be executed upon such Peers as might oppose
the Bill. Had they not heard that the Peers were to be
put in schedule A if they did not agree to pass the Bill?
and some Latin quotation had been used about strike at
the fact.—(Cries of quote, quote, quote.) Hon. Mem-
bers might call on hint to quote, but lee begged to inform
them that he had forgotten more Latin than most of them
had ever learned.—(Great laugleter.) He made no pre-
tensions to being a literary character. It was a long time
since he went to school, and he was not one of those who
kept up classical reading—he made no pretension to being
a quoter of Latin. But to turn to matters more im-
portant. A good ground of complaint had been made
against the Government. It is for suffering the Press tee
proceed in their mischievous course of reviling and holding
up to public vengeance Peers and Members of Parliament.
lie was perfectly ready to admit that the people in some
pirts of the country, and about the metropolis, were in a
state of great excitement ; but did that justify the Govern-
ment in asserting that the nation was unanimous in their
support? Did not the conduct of the people of Dorset-
shire falsify such a statement ; and was it not plain enough
that even in time county with which the Chancellor of the
Exchequer was himself connected, there did exist consider-
able difference of opinion ? And surely no man could call
the late election at Dublin an unanimous declaration in
favour of the Bill. He did not possess sufficient influence
over the people to delude or to deceive them ; but the lion.
Member for Middlesex certainly possessed sufficient influence
for that purpose, for he succeeded in persuading them
that they would derive more advantage from the Bill than
in his conscience he believed would ever accrue front it.—
No doubt those who collected great multitudes were re-
sponsible fur their conduct in so calling theirs together;
and those who previously furnished the means of excite-
ment to meetings to be afterwards called, were likewise re-
sponsible for results. He would again say, that he thought
it most extraordinary that any Government should have
allowed the public Press to run the length which the
Press in these days lead gone; and if this state of things
went on, where would it stop? Thee Right Hon. Member
for Windsor might laugh, but matters might soon become
serious. It might be all very well for a time, but sooner
or later Ministers would regret the turbulence which it
served their present purpose to permit—the time might
come when it would put their noses out of socket.
Heil), the state of things was alarming, and not easily
understood. At time very moment when the Duke of
Newcastle's place was being destroyed the military nitre
parading the streets of Nottingham, but would not march
to its rescue, leaving no orders to that effect. Since then
a rumour had gone abroad, that the people were prooeed-
ing to lielvoir Castle with the same purpose. If they
allowed the present state of things to continue and grow
worse, they must in the end call out the military. Did
he, therefore, advocate acts of violence? Quite the con-
trary ; but he then, and at all times, vet), much ques-
tioned the prudence and expediency of large bodies
of men going up to the King for the purpose of pre-
senting petitionsa—it bore the appearance of intunida-

' ion ; and in the year ISH, at the Spaflehls meeting,
when it was proposed that the whole body of those pre
stint should go up to the Prince. Regent with au address, i
would have been agreed to but for hint ; he owed it to I;
own safety, and to his own character, not to implicate
himself in any such proceeding. He had some influence
in those days, and he prevailed upon the meeting to give
up the design of proceeding in a body to the Palace. He
really thought the time had arrived when Ministers might
be satisfied with the expression of public feeling to which
recent events had given rise, and they ought now to adopt
some means for protecting person and property in this
metropolis. He had understood that Commissioners
Mayne and Rowan had given directions that no man
Should be struck on the head sinless he were detected in
some act of violence, endangering life. For himself, he
had no fears—he had lived to little purpose, if he could not
venture amongst his fellow-citizens, unarmed at the same
time. If he should encounter violence from a multitude
—though Ir 2 had but one life to lose—he should defend
that life—he should not die without resistance.
Mr. GEORGE LAMB said, that as much of the cen-
sure conveyed in the speech of the Hon. Member for
Preston appeared to attach itself to the dep:rtment with
which he was connected, he trusted the House would per-
mit him to say a few words; indeed, he could not allow
the present conversation to close without making a few
observations. However unmeasured the language used by
the lion. Member for Preston—and it would be difficult
to find language more unmeasured—he trusted that to
remainder of the discussion would be conducted in a
spirit, and with a calmness of language more befitting the
dignity sfthat House. He confessed he was yet to learn,
for he did not know, what acts or what omissions of his
Majesty's Government had procured for them the censure
which they had that night encountered. The Hon. Gen-
tleman had said that they had permitted or connived at
the proceedings of the rioters—that they were thus in-
directly parties to the violence. Upon that he was pre-
pared to join issue—he challenged inquiry into every one
of the acts of the department with which be was con-
nected. He thought that Hon. Gentlemen ought not be-
fore trial to express suspicions which, after examination,
might prove utterly groundless. A complaint had been
made that the military were not called into activity on a
late occasion, but the fact was, the means were not so
completely at hand as had been represented. As to the
tendency to violence which was now abroad, he hoped
that it would soon be put down; but he must be allowed
to say, that it was far from the best mode of effecting that
object for Hon. Gentlemen to come forward and say that
the Government connived at, or permitted, any such pro-
ceedings; to send forth to the public anything of that sort
could not but he attended with the worst effects.

Sir C. WETHERELL—I did not use the word Connive.

Mr. G. LAMB—WeII, connive or permit, the differ-
ence was unimportant. As to what the Hon. Member for
Preston had said respecting the rumoured death of a police
constable, it was without foundation. On the whole, then,
Government thought it much wiser to allow those men to
approach the Sovereign, than to put any restraint upon
their proceedings, for restraint i❑ such cases might be
worse than perfect freedom.
Lord STORMONT defended his own friends from the
imputation of being adverse to the liberty of the subject,
and concurred in all that had been said in reprobation of
the letters written by the Noble Lords opposite.
Sir GEORGE WARRENDER thought there ought to
be a special commission for the purpose of bringing . the
rioters to trial.

Colonel TRENCH having been an eye-witness of the
procession in which the Hon. Member for Middlesex took
so distinguished a part, wished to state what came under
his own observation. For a moment the carriage of the
Hon. Member stopped, and he wished to catch his eye,
but he endeavoured to do so in vain. His standard bearer
preceded him, and was most industrious in giving direc-
tions to the assembled multitude. In compliance with
those directions—issued by a man apparently of a respec-
table station in society—in compliance with those direc-
tions, the procession went along Piccadilly, preceded by a
white flag, with these words—" King, Commons, and
People !" When the party came to Devonshire House,
their leader desired them to shout, and they did shout
most lustily. When they came opposite the Duke of St.
Alban's they also shouted, but more feebly. As he saw
them then advancing towards Hyde Park-corner, he con-
clud.d that their object was to proceed to the Duke of
Wellington's, and he therefore eodeavoured to get before
them, for the purpose of apprising the family, but without
success. He observed, then, the leading portion of the pro-
cession proceeding in the most orderly and regular manner,
consisting of respectable-looking men, well dressed, walk-
ing four and four abreast, arm in arm. Having entered
Hyde Park-gate, they opened, as it were, their files, and
permitted another body to advance, consisting, not of boys
or of youths, but of full-grown men, who being well
provided with stones, proceeded to break the windows of
the Duke of Wellington's house. To beaure the breaking
of a few windows was no great matter; but it was most
distressing to see a force organized for the purpose of in-
sulting an illustrious man, whose deeds had so largely con-
tributed to make the British name immortal, and whose
conduct, whether in public or private life, adorned human
nature.—(Cheers.) At this period of the proceeding he
looked in vain for the standard-bearer. He had disap-
peared, but the business of the procession appeared to go
on with the most perfect regularity, it being obvious that
the previous varied arrangements of its chiefs were com-
plete in all their parts. Now, it bad been said by Hon.
Members, that it was most injudicious to witness such
proceedings as that; that it would be unwise to restrain
the ebullition of popular feeling. At first no danger was
apprehended, and no precautions taken by the shopkeepers ;
but at the moment of which he spoke the tradespeople began
to have some apprehension for their property, and to bar-
ricade their windows, for which purpose carpenters had
been in many places employed. That, then, was the his-
tory of the procession so far as it came within his observa-
tion ; and be could not help expressing some regret that
the Hon. Member fur Middlesex had not followed that
Clay the example set by the Hon. Member for Preston,
ou the occasion of the Spafields meeting, and, instead of
leading the people in a tumultuous approach to the Pa-
lace, have dissuaded them from such a course, and un-
dertaken to assure them that their petition should be
presented at the Levee. When he found an angry and
irritated mob resolved to press forward, be should have
left nothing untried to induce them to return, and en-
trust their petition to the hands of their County Mem-
bers. He should have done that instead of exhibiting him-
self in such a procession as that which broke the windows
at the house of the Duke of Wellington. There were a
body of men who bad been without food all day, and who
might probably have gone into public-houses, and become
intoxicated. All things considered, they did not do so
much injury as might have been apprehended ; but never-
theless that was no justification of their leaders, for in
such circumstances tbe worst effects might have been anti-
cipated from men in that state of excitement. The Hon.
Member for Middlesex then would have done himself more
credit by endeavouring to restrain the people than by in-
dulging in the love of that paltry triumph which such an
occasion afforded. The mob might have been brought
that day to the Palace of the King for a purpose appa-
rently quite innocent; but the time might arrive when
they would come in equal numbers for a very different
purpose, and the time, perhaps, was not very far dis-
tant when a Jacobin Club might overawe the proceedings
of that House. And as the Hon. Member for Preston
had told them respecting his meeting of 2,000, there
might be places where every one of the questions
mooted in the House of Commons might be previously
discussed and decided, and where such discussions would
not only materially affect the conduct of Honourable
Members out of door, but also in that House. It was
well known that the question on the Bill was put nega-
tively and affirmatively in that assembly, and that the
Hon. Member for Preston came down to that House fol-
lowed by thousands. The time might not be very fir dis-
tant when proceedings of that nature might assume a very
dangerous character. Such,was the state of things brought
on by a very unfortunate conjuncture in public affairs. It
was really not worth the while of Government to adopt
the course which they had done; it was not worth their
while to stoop and condescend thus for the little paltry tri-
umph of making a few credulous people believe that they
ware a Government of the people, and were sustained by
popularity. The question of Reform was one which was
decidedly popular, and with that they ought to be content.
Mr. HUME—Jbere is scarcely one word of truth in
the statement which the House has just heard, and so far
as I am concerned it is utterly untrue.—(Loud cries of
" order.") I mean that it is altogether a mistake on the
part of the Hon. and Gallant Officer who has just spoken ;
was not in Piccadilly with the procession.
Colonel TRENCH-.=l did not say that I saw the Hon.
Member in Piccadilly ; I saw him with the procession in
Pall-mall, and when be passed me, I saw him forming
part of that procession which I accompanied up St James's•
street and along Piccadilly. I went with what I call his
procession, and he, I presume, went to the Levee. •
• Mr. HUME—My Hon. Colleague had two petitions to
present ; I went with him to meet two deputations, and
►our deputations of those that went along Piccadilly joined
us at the time that we went to meet the other two. In-
stead of being any party to those bodies approaching the
Sovereign, my recommendation to them was, to pursue a
totally different course, and to intrust their petitions to
the two County 'Members; I met the deputation in the

manner statoal, and for the purpose; I have described,
which 1 conceive to have been the fittest course for me to
have pursued.—(Hear, bear, bear.) It would Lave been
the course which, unadvised, 1 should have pursued, but
the request of Lord Me'bourne rendered me, it possible,
still more ready to adopt it. There is a mistake in sup-
posing that there were any flags or banners in our part of
the procession—they came from the city, or from the other
side of the water—twenty-five of the carriages and all the
men on horseback, came front the parish of Newington.
If there be any fault in taking the petition and conveying
it to the King, that fault is mine--the events that have
occurred are most unfortunate ; no one deplores them more
than I (1o; and I beg now to add, that when I spoke of
the outrage committed as an accident, I did not mean to
undervalue its importance—l meant merely to describe it
ac an occurrence unconnected with the business or pro-
ceedings of the procession—it was not premeditated in the
slightest degree, that must be perfectly obvious to the most
casual observer. _ . .

Colonel TRENCH (With much warmth)—As to the
first part of the speech of the Hon. Member for Middle-
sex, I shall return my thanks for it elsewhere. What I
have stated is not an untruth, as be has dared to affirm.
Mr. HUME—I thought I fully guarded myself; the
statement I said was untrue so far as I was concerned.—
Nothing can be plainer than that the Hon. and Galant
Member labours under a mistake.
Sir G. WARRENDER—There is clearly a misun-
derstanding in this matter. My Hon. and Gallant Friend,
who is the best natured man in the world, will, I am sure,
see that the Hon. Member for Middlesex could have
meant him no personal disrespect.
Lord STORMONT thought that the Hon. Member
for Middlesex ought to retract what he had said.
The SPEAKER—The moment the expression was
used I felt it was out of order, but almost instantly the
Hon. Member for Middlesex retracted it in the most
marked and effectual manner, anticipating any exception
which could he taken to it, by saying that he meant to
impute nothing but a mistake. In the same manner he
explained his application of the word accidental to a gross
outrage.

Colonel TRENCH, though as ready as any man to re-
sent an offence, could not but be satisfied with the explana-
tion given.

Colonel SIBTHORPE related a conversation lie had
with a delegate from a Political Union, who met him in
the lobby, and also mistook him for a Reforming Member.
Mr. MABERLY said that the Anti-Reformers had
brought the proceedings of that day on themselves; for
they would have it that there was no feeling among the
public iu favour of this Bill, upon which the people had as-
sembled for the purpose of telling those Anti-Reformers
that there was a feeling among them in favour of the Bill.
—(Cheers.) His firm belief was, that the people had so
assembled with the strongest intention of keeping the
peace.—(Hear, hear.) The Government had been blamed
for not preventing these meetings ; but if it had, he would
venture to predict that the day would have terminated very
differently from what it had.—(Cheers.)
Mr. PAGET said that after the taunts that had been
levelled at the people by the Anti-Reformers, they had no
other course to pursue but to assemble in large bodies—
(Hear, hear)—aud for any one to say that they were ready
to embrue their hands in the blood of their fellow-citizens,
was a most gross libel.—(Cheers.)
The petition was then brought up, laid on the table, and
ordered to he printed.
ELECTION OF LIVERPOOL.
Mr. BENETT moved the second reading of the Li-
verpool Franchise Bill, on the understanding that it would
be impossible to go through with it this session.
The Bill having been read a second time, and its com-
mitment having been ordered for that day three months.
Mr. VERNON moved for a new writ to issue for the
election of a Member for the vacant seat in Liverpool.
Mr. WASON moved, as an amendment, that no new
writ should issue till fourteen days after the meeting of the
next session of Parliament_

Mr. J. CAMPBELL opposed the amendment.
Mr. BENET T was of opinion that it would he no hard-
ship to postpone the issuing of the writ during the recess.
Mr. GISBORNE supported the issuing of the writ.
The King's writ had issued since the corrupt election com-
plained of, and of the return to the King's writ no com-
plaint could be made.
Mr. EWART supported the issuing of the writ. The
great mercantile transactions of the place required that
another Member should be afforded to it as soon as possible.
Mr. GOULBURN would vote for the amendment,
although he admitted the inconvenience of keeping Liver-
pool without one of its Members.

Lord ALTHORP had previously voted for the issuing
of the writ ; but that vote had been overruled by the
House, and he had felt bound to yield to that decision.
But he did not conceive that that decision was to bind
bins for ever ; .unil though he admitted that there were
difficulties in the case, still he thought, upon the whole,
that the most a ivisable course would be to allow the writ
to issue.

Mr. C. FERGUSON opposed the issuing of the writ,
having been on the Committee, and having there heard
evidence given of the grossest corruption.
Sir RICHARD VYVYAN said the vacancy was caused
by accident, and he could not therefore vote for the sus-
pension of the writ.
Lord INGESTRIE said he also should support the
motion for the issuing of the writ.
Sir GEORGE WARRENDER had refused to vote for
the issue of the writ for Erg Retford for three years, and
fur the sake of consistency, therefore, he must vote against
the issue of the writ for Liverpool. The corruption at
Liverpool had been very great.
Mr. HUNT declared that he would vote against the
issue of the writ. This motion would show the Reformers
in that House in their proper colours to the public.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said that the resistance to the
motion was intended to delude the people, and he should
vote for the issue of the writ.
Mr. WRANGHAM would not canonize a system of
corruption, by issuing the writ. He should oppose the
motion, being willing to apply a remedy to every indivi-
dual case of corruption.
Mr. 'VERNON supported the motion, because he would
not leave, without some compulsory cause, 5,000 burgesses
without adequate representation. If not in that, in the
next, Session of Parliament, there would be most impor-
tant questions agitated, in which Liverpool was deeply con-
cerned—such as the East India question; and he thought
that on such
important occasions Liverpool ought not to
be without a representative.
The gallery was then cleared for a division_
For the motion 93
Against it
67
BANKRUPTCY COURTS' BILLS.
3,lajority
—t26
BA
On the motion of the SOLICITOR.GENERAL the House
resumed the adjourned debate on the Bankruptcy Courts'
Bill.
The SPEAKER read the question before the House,
" That I now leave the Chair."
Mr. WARBURTON approved of the principle of the
Bill, but did not think it possible that it could be allowed
to pass in its present state. He was persuaded that if it
were so to pass, it would occasion great disappointment to
the mercantile world. The Bill would have the effect of
subjecting the estate of the bankrupt to great expences.
He afro objected to the number of Judges of which the
proposed Court was to be composed. One Judge would
be better than four ; and he would recommend to strike
off the three Puisne Judges, and add that number to the
Commissioners. The number of appeals likewise which
easu
itthe toauthority
a Co
the Bin permitted would be attended with the greatest in-
convenience. He thought the
such
itHouse ought not to adopt
lrinoliftteae above
nyindivisdtuaiar e individual
bntil.t
that
powered to call before it professional men for the purpose
of their being examined on the subject. If the Bill should
not pass this session, he would move in the next session
to refer it to a Committee above stairs.—(Some Hon.
Members exclaimed, " Move now.") He would not
move then, because he thought that would be an unfair
Mode of getting rid of the Bill.
Mr. JOHN SMITH expressed his regret that any one
who was so well known to be most conscientious in his
a shouldtil re
refertin
conduct as his Hon. Friend should oppose this measure.
He entirely differed upon the subject from his Hon. Friend.
Ile by no means anticipated that the Bill would occasion
so much expellee as his Hon. Friend supposed ; and en-
tered into a variety of details to show the evils attendant
en the existing system (evils which repeatedly c Wed forth
the execration of the commercial world), and the advan-
tages which would result from the establishment of such a
tribunal as that which the Bill proposed to provide. He
had no objection to a Committee, if his Hon. Friend
would undertake to manage it ; but he feared he would
find the greatest difficulty in his way.
Mr. FRESHFIELD was convinced that no Commission
of any magnitude could be worked with such machinery
as was proposed by this Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUNT ho
pet. that the Ministers would not press a
Bill of this consequence at the advanced period of the
session. It would be an expensive measure, and he for
one could not see what benefit the suitor would derive
(tam it. Although the Lord Chancellor himself might
not sell the patronage created by this Bill, yet there were
such persons as Lord Chancellor's secretaries, and other of-
ficers through whom appointments to the new offices could
be obtained.

Mr, GEORGE BANKES Raked why this Bill should

he now pressed, when it was acknowledged on all hands
there mast be a supplementary measure? The appoint-
ment of these Bankruptcy Judges was a great instance of
patronage. He did not mean to say that that patronage
would be the subject of aale, but it would be the means of
political power, especially when vested in the hands of
one man. He defended the conduct of the lists of the
London Commissioners, and said that, if there was any
evil in the system, this Bill would not remedy it. He
should adopt the suggestion of the Hon. Member for
Bridport, and should move, as an amendment, that a Se-
lect Committee should be appointed to inquire into the
provisions of this Bill.
Sir C. WETHERELL supported the amendment. This
was an experimental Bill, but the experiment would be
attended with great expence, for all the Judges appointed
by this Bill would be entitled to retiring pensions as soon
as their judicial labours might be found necessary to have
a termination. The Bill, too, was expensive in another
respect, for the salaries would begin at once, though the
du•ies did not commence till Jan. 1832. Some of the
officers appointed under this Bill would be sinecurists just
as much as those Tellers of the Exchequer whose offices
bad recently been abolished. He had seen the lists of
the persons intended to fill these offices, and he asserted
that their appointment was to be made a means of political
patronage. It had been said that this Bill had the appro-
bation of Mr. Justice Biyley. Now, lie had received this
morning a letter from that Learned Judge, declaring that
this Bill had not his approbation,—(Hear, hear). He en-
tered at large into the minor details of the measure, and
especially complained of the immense emoluments the offi-
cial assignees might derive from their situation,. He also
dwelt upon the great increase of expense to parties, and
upon the comparatively little satisfaction they would de-
rive from the decisions of the new Court, without the
power of appeal to the highest judicial authority. He
argued also, that it was impolitic to separate bankruptcy
from the Court of Chancery, and he quoted in his favour
upon this point the evidence of the present Solicitor-Ge-
neral before his appointment to that office. He urged that
the principal objection even to the present system was, that
it produced too many issues to be tried in the ordinary
Courts of Law, and that the present measure would infi-
nitely increase this evil. After dilating upon the ex-
pences of the new system, lie pronounced an eulogium
upon the " master mind" of Lord Eldon, and called the
attention of the House to the inconsistency of those who
formerly had contended that the arrear of business in
bankruptcy was owing to the slowness of the Lord Chan-
cellor, and now insisted that it was necessary to relieve
him from that part of his duties. It was the ill-fortune
of Lord Eldon to be a Tory Chancellor, and the good
fortune of his present successor to be of opposite
principles.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL refused to notice an) I
of the personal and party topics introduced by the Right
Hon. Gentleman, and argued at some length that the Bill
was a great improvement upon the old system, especially
in the present complicated state of the commerical affairs
of the country. This Bill which had been represented as
cutting at the root of the old system, was merely a mea-
sure of reformation and improvement, and would save ex-
pense both to the country at large and to the debtors and
creditors immediately interested. The expense which the
country incurred by maintaining a separate judicature
would be entirely done away with, while the expense to
those interested in bankrupt estates would be considerably
diminished. Ile would not attempt to defend the Lord
Chancellor from the vulgar attacks which had been made
tip.in Min, but would say, that several cif his efforts to re-
form the administration of the laws deserved the gratitude
of the country.
After some conversation, the further discussion of the
' Bill was adjourned to this day.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at Hall-past Three o'clock.