The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-11 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, MAY 11, ic,-3P.

Sir ROBERT PEEL—How could you select such a Committee?

Mr. O'CONNELL would not give such a Committee any power but
that of reporting on the questions submitted to them, and no share in
the jurisdiction.—(Hear, hear.) IL; was convinced that nothing in the
shape of an Election Committee would do any good without the estab-
lishment of some judicial system to aid it.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL expressed himself favourable to the
proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet, especially as he was of opinion
that the jurisdiction, with respect to Election Committees, ought to be
retained within the walls of that House.--(ilear, hear.) He would
have the greatest objection to fix the labours of Election Committees on
Me Judges of the land, although he had the greatest confidence in their
integrity and impartiality. Why should not the House retain its juris-
diction as well as the other 1-louse, which, in matters of appeals from

the Courts of Law, proved itself quite efficient ? The questions of this
sort which came before the House of Lords were, as they must all admit,
con idered in the most pure and impartial manner. He would allow
to his Honourable and Learned Friend the Member for Dublin that
the present system had fallen into great abuse, and that it was no-
ussary that some alteration should be made in it. There could be
no denying that the present system brought discredit on
that House, and that public opinion was strongly adverse to it;
but the question they had to determine was, how the evil could be
most effectually remedied. His Honourable Friend the Member for
Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller) had brought in a Bill for the improvement of
the law relating to controverted elections, but, in his opir.ion, the plan
of his Hon. Friend would be found in practice to b 2 wholly ineffectual.

That plan would leave more to chance than even the present system.
The Right Hon Baronet had said that the professional men who were
Members of that House escaped from serving on Election Committees.
It was quite true that he (the Attorney.Gcneral) had paired off with his
Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Huntingdon; but all he
could say was, that if this experiment were tried, he would, at any pe-
cur.iary saczifice to himself,. be ready to attend on the new Committees,
and, as far as he was able, to perform the duty that might devolve upon
him. lie was] ersuaded that if the Right Hon Baronet's plan were
adopted all party politics would be foregone, and that nothing would be
thought of but doing justice between the parties, without considering
to which side of the House they belonged—(Hear, hear.) But in say_
ing this, he wished it to be understood that he in nowise pledged him-
self to its details. The experiment was one which he thought ought
to be made, but at the same time he could not help suggesting that after
all the best way would be at once to repeal the Grenville Act.—(Hear,
hear.) There were two things which were more particularly wanted.
They wanted the power of administering oaths and of awarding costs,
and if they possessed these powers they would, as far as he could see,
require nothing more.
Lord MAHON agreed that all parties, whether in or out of that
House, must feel deeply obliged to the Right Hon. Baronet for the pains
he had bestowed on this subject, and the total absence of any-
thing like party feeling which he evinced in bringing his proposition for.
ward.— (Hear.) This testimony from him (Lord _Mahon) was evidence
of the latter fact.

Mr. FITZROY KELLY said that it would be impossible to deny
that the Bill proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet was calculated to im-
prove the present system; but while he admitted this, he could not help
expressing the disappointment which he felt, that, in the able and lumi-
nous address of the Right Hon. Gentleman, he did not notice one alto-
ratien that seemed to be of indispensable advantage to the just constitu.
tion of any tribunal they might devise for the trial of controverted elec-
tion?, and that was the appointment of an assessor, or judge, not to deal
with the merits, but merely to expound and explain the law, whenever
points of difficulty arose which involved professional knowledge.—(Bear.)
He felt assured, from the long experience he had had in Courts of justice,
that without such an officer any tribunal they might form would be im-
perfect, and, for his own part, he thought the persons selected to preside
over Election Committees should be the most eminent the legal profes-
sion could afford.
Mr. BERNAL agreed that the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth deserved the thanks not only of that House but the country
for Lis endeavours to provide a cure for the radical defects of the pre-
sent system of conducting the business of Election Committees. He
was surprised at the arguments which had been used in favour of the
appointment of assessors, and the reference, in support of that propo-
sition, which had been made to the manner in which the judicia
functions of the House of Lords were performed. It was proposed that
one Learned Cadi should preside at each of the new Committees ; but
it seemed to have been wholly forgotten in drawing the analogy that
the House of Lords were not assisted by one Learned Cadi, but by the
twelve Judges. He thought that fact made all the difference, and was
conclusive against the argument. At best, all that could be done was to
speculate on contingencies and clauses, but his fear was that the measure
proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman would not answer the purposes
intended to be effected by it. He believed the evils to be of such a
nature that there was no escaping from them, for they should recollect
whets they complained of the partiality of the present tribunals that
there never was a time in the history of Parliament when parties were
so equally balanced as at the present moment.—(Hear, hear.) If they
wished todo anything effectual for checking bribery and corruption, he
was persuaded they must reform the statute-book and make their enact-
ments so stringent and intelligible that they could neither be evaded
nor misunderstood. The registry, too, must be made final for other-
wise no advantage would be gained, take what step they might to cor-
rect abuse.
Colonel DAVIES regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet had not
been able to bring forward a more satisfactory measure. TI
..e could not
give it his approval.
Mr. S. LEFEVRE was bound to say that in the principle of the mea-
sure he fully concurred. The great objection of the present system was
that it brought only partisans down for the ballot; and, if that evil
w effected.
were shaken off, he was convinced that all that was desired would
be
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Right
Hon. Baronet had one consolation, and that was, that he had intro.
duced a Bill respecting which, although the subject was a difficult one,
there could be no difference of opinion on the part of the House. He
opportunity, and
could not help thinking that the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet was
not cnly a good one, in reference to the existing stateooffittheonlaw,:.,hbicuht
with respect to its own merits.—(lleac, hear.) While he said this he
to
of wishedEngland—
he wu idt
wisht be nrcleesrefirtvoeo dh
itsh
opinion
therehaving
aio%,ninfgomr.
assessor
st
eb pointssefsuotuorre
joupfgoe
one of them was the propriety That was
a matter which he was anxious to leave open for discussion.—(Hear,
hear.) j-le should, he confessed, never be a party to removing from the
House of Commons the jurisdiction which belonged to it, inasmuch as
past history convinced him that the preservation of that principle was
it could not be transferred without endangering the
essentialuieai)— ttohatthe existence of the liberties of the people
principles on which the representative system was based.—(Hear.)
After all, he suspected that it was a want of information that lay
at the bottom of all the evils complained of. He did not think
that the obligation of an oath would raise the tribunal materially, but
still he would not deny that the mode of applying it would make all the
difference With respect to the appointment of assessors, he was of the
opinion that such parties were necessary to preside over Election Com-
mittees for the purpose of explaining the law, and he had always thought
that it was a great mistake even to have excluded nominees from these
tribunals. In concluding, the Right Hon. Gentleman must express his
hope that Hon. Gentlemen would lay aside all trifling objections, and
apply their minds to improve the present Bill, taking it as the basis of
any change that might be made.
Mr. V. SMITH rose for the purpose of asking the Right Honourable
Baronet as to the possibility of bringing in his Bill at this advanced
period of the session with any reasonable prospect that the Bill might

pats during the present session ? Ile thought it highly desirable that
th question should be settled during the present session, as he feared it
would not meet so much attention in any other session as in the session
immediately succeeding a general election.
Sir ROBERT PEEL held is his hand the'result of his labours in the
shape of a Bill, which was already printed. He intended to lay this
Bill on the table of the House in the course of a few days, and hoped to
be able tq take the second re :ding on an early day, He wished as soon
as possible to take the sense of the House upon the question, whe-
ther the jurisdiction over Elections should be left in the House or not.
Dr. LUSHINGTON thought that very great inconvenience would
arise from establishing a tribunal entirely above the controul of the
House. With respect to the proposition submitted to the HoriSe by the
Right Honourable Baronet, he entirely acceded to the arguments by
which that proposition was supported. He thought the responsibility of
the oath would be greatly increased by the manner in which the Right
Honourable Baronet proposed that it should be taken, and by the manlier
in which he proposed to select the members of those Committees.
Making all allowance for the frailty of human nature, he thought this
would be as good a tribunal as it would be possible to constitute. But it
should be recollected, that, in the present state of election law, some-
thing more than diligence and integrity were requisite on the part of
those who had to decide questions of this nature. He thought it highly
desirable that this tribunal should be able to decide questions of law that
might be raised. He would propose that two persons qualified in this
way should be appointed to assist the Committee. He would give them
no vote; but he would require them to state their opinions and decisions
on the questions before them publicly, if the grounds on those decisions
were clear and satisfactory, and that if the majority of the Committee acted
in contradiction to them, he believed that they could only do so at the
certain risk of giving great offence to public opinion. He would
wish that the controul should be left in the House, not for the purpose
of governing the decisions of these Committees, but in order that, from
time to time, they might be enabled to apply a remedy to any defects
that might arise, and which experience would enable them to correct.
He regretted that the proposition of his Noble Friend, the Member fur
North Lancashire, with respect to the simplifications of election law,
hadbeen withdrawn. He thought that the Government might, with
very good effect, bring forward a plan for the abolition of those con-
tested points which they saw raised every day before Committees, and
the decisions respecting which were of the most conflicting kind. He
recollected that thirty years ago he was petitioned against, and for his
sins before and since he was placed on his trial for fourteen days. At
that time he had examined with the acuteness of a lawyer several of the
points that he thought likely to arise, and looked into the authorities and
cases respecting them, and he found that whilst there were fourteen de-
' risions at one side there were nine decisions at the other side, and in
direct opposition to the others.—( A laugh.) He thought great advan-
tage would arise from settling these disputed points.
Lord HO WICK said that his object in rising was to urge upon the

Right Hon. Baronet the importance of considering once more the ex.
treme inconvenience that was likely to result from omitting that part of
the measure which had been recommended by the Select Committee
which sat two years ago, with respect to the appointment of assessors.
He believed that if three competent assessors were to preside over
election conr.imittees, and as a Court of appeal from the Revising Barris-
ters, they would, in the course of a few years, have the means of reno.
eating altogether many of those questions which at present gave rise to
election petitions. He must admit the great practical difficulty that
stood in the way of the appointment of those assessors. Now it seemed
to him (Lord Howick) that the Committee which the Right Hon. Baro-
net proposed to appoint might safely be intrusted with the duty of
making the appointment of these officers, and though there was great
objection that the power of appointing those assessors should rest either
with the Government or in the House, yet he saw HO objection to leaving
it to the general Committee which the Right Hon. Bart. proposed to
appoint. There was another point in which he entirely concurred with
the Right Hon. Bart. He admitted that it was a great fault in the Bill of
the Hon. Member for Liskeard that it proposed to continue the practice of
balloting in the House, and the temptation to create a large attendance,
with all the party excitement with which it was generally accompanied.
But he would ask the Right Hon. Baronet to pause before he de-
cided on throwing upon the Committee the difficult duty of naming the
individuals who were to constitute an election tribunal. The Noble
Lord here proceeded to point out the inconvenience that would arise
from imposing on the General Committee the duty of naming Members
to serve on Committees to try election petitions. He thought that no
ballot should take place in the House, but that a ballot should take
place by the General Committees in private, and that they should have
a supplementary list sealed up, that in case of objections which the
Right Hon. Baronet proposed to allow, the first list was reduced, they
should be enabled to supply the deficiency from the supplementary list.
He trusted the Bill would prove a great benefit, and they shottld be
desirous to make it as perfect as possible.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. O'BRIEN had a plan to propose, which, in his humble judg.
merit, would be more effectual in procuring the object all had in view,
than that proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet. The question was,
what scheme could be devised to set the House right with the public ;
and he thought it was the duty of every Member, however humble
might be his clam on the attention of tht House, to put forward such
suggestions as might occur to him in promoting the general object.—
(Hear.) He would not now enter into details, but he thought he
would be able to show that the plan he would have the honour of
submitting would possess the principal requisite to secure impartiality
and competency in the judges of election petitions. He hoped that It
would Meta make the mode of trial cheaper than that they now pos.
ceased, and other requisites which were essential to such a tribunal. He
wuulf not further detain the House, but at the proper time would enter
fully into the details of the plan he meant to propose.
Mr. GOULBURN concurred for the most part in the general opinion
that seemed to prevail that the motion made by his Right Hon. Friend
was well worthy the attention of the House.—(Hear.) He did not think
that any tribunal could be better than that proposed by his Right Hon.
Friend. He thought, as to the question of assessors, if the Committees
were appointed as suggested by his Right Hon. Friend, that it would be
extremely difficult to give the assessor his necessary authority—the au-
thority which it Was not only desirable, but indispensable he should
have. There was one point suggested by his Right Hon. Friend in which
he entirely concurred, and that was the extreme difficulty there would
be in securing the attendance of Members who might be nominated on
Committees of this sort. He thought that in the progress of the Bill
through its future stages some plan might be hit on to obviate this.
Mr. ELLIOT thought that if, in the first instance, Committees o f
seven were appointed, and that previous to the ballot or selection of
•committees for the trial of election petitions these Committees of seven
.sere reduced to the rcquisil e number, a means would be afforded of as.
recta ning who were absent from town, and from those who remained
Committees t ould be prepared. By this means he thought the principal
objection—that of keeping the entire House in attendance—would be
completely obviated.
Mr. HUME would endeavour to direct the attention of the House to
what, in his opinion, would be the only efficient mode of lessening the
difficulty and inconvenience of which they all complained. That mode
would be to bring in a good Registration Bill.—(Hear, hear.) There
was nothing which, in his opinion, was so great a disgrace to legisletion
as the present mode of registration; and he felt quite satisfied that if
the Right Hon. Baronet had taken half the trouble with it that he was
taking with the mode of trying election petitions he would effect his
object completely. He would only further say that if the House stood
condemned with the public for partial decisions the Registration Courts
were doubly condemned for their inefficiency.
An HON MEMBER said as the great complaint against the present
tribunals was for partiality, the better way would be to' appoint Com-
mittees at the commencement of the session before any election petitions
were presented. It would then be quite impossible to suspect them of
rtiality.
Sir It. PEEL said—The question of registration is one perfectly dis-
tinct from that which we are now discussing. I admit that nothing
is more important than that the registration should be simplified
an.i reformed ; and when I say it is distinct, I do not mean to say that
in connection with the measure I shall have the honour to propose, its
formation would not greatly facilitate the efficient working of Election
Committees. But I mean to say that the defective state of the registra.
Lion is no reason why we should not endeavour to improve the tribunal
for the trial of election petitions. It would be extremely desirable to
send all great questions', such as opening the registry unembarrassed to
the Election Committees. Another question, that of the true meaning
of the distance of seven miles, requires definition. I would wish, also,
for some effective Court of Appeal from the decision of the Registering
Barrister, which would, once for all, settle the law on this subject. It
has been suggested that three of cur Judges would afford an effective tri-
bunal, but I am most unwilling to mix up our Judges in these matters. I
know that the Judges in Scotland rejoice heartily that the effect of the
Reform Bill has been to free them from jurisdiction in election matters,
as they found it most difficult to decide on the rights of freeholders
without incurring the imputation of partiality. For this reason I
should deprecate the interference of the Judges in political matters.—
(Hear.) With respect to the Speaker, whose mein object must be to
consult the good of all, I could not for a moment admit the possibility
Of his sacrificing the high and important character of his office to the
paltry interests of party.---(Hear.) It would be an insult to human
nature to suppose that any advantage could counterbalance the loss of his
character for impartiality, or the diminution of that influence which is
indispensable to the execution of his duties.—(Hear.) With respect
to the General Committees, of which an Hon. Gentleman seems to think
that forty would be necessary, I should propose to have no more than
four, or at roost six. The Noble Lord opposite had mentioned one
great difficulty, namely, the invidious nature of the duties which these
General Committees will have to perform, such as exacting the atten-
dance of Members. But this will only apply to one Session—that im.
mediately following a general election, because in every Session it will
be known what petitions are to be presented. But I must say I do not
thick the duty of exacting attendance should be considered invidious.
Now, with respect to the appointment of assessors, it is an addition
which might easily be drafted on any plan, as there is nothing in it ini-
mical to the principle. Should the House think it desirable to appoint
a tribunal of appeal from the decisions of the Registering Barrister, that
tribunal would readily furnish the assessors.—(Hear.) But still there
would be a great difficulty in the way of such an appointment. The
assessors ought to be completely independent—they should also be
limited in number. If you appoint deputy assessors, their authority will
not be respected. With respect to permanent assessors, I would say, that
if those officers held their situations for life, the time may come when
they will be—l will not say unfit for business, but from age and infirmity
inefficient. You must then make same provision for their retirement,
as nothing would be more inconvenient than to be saddled with a
permanent appointment of parties who did not maintain their legal
thiswel
ae re dt
moving. oaonufso planr a
abilities.—(Hear, hear.) If you make them independent, and re-
movable only for misconduct, and do not make some provision for
ago or infirmity, I am much afraid you would find yourselves
saddled with three old assessors, in whose decision much confidence
would not be placed. If my plan should be adopted, I expect, when
once the present excitement has passed away, a new feeling will arise,
and that persons will approach these tribunals in a much different spirit
to that at present exhibited. Then I propose that professional men of
the highest eminence shall be required to give their assistance. What,
then, would be the case of the assessor ?—(Hear, hear.) Suppose the
Attorney-General should be on one of these Committees, and my Right
Bon. Friend the Member for Exeter on another, I am very much afraid
that the assessor would soon manifest inferiority—that his character for
legal knowledge would soon become damaged. However independent
he might be as a Judge and permanent Officer of the House—although
he might discharge his duty with the greatest integrity—still I am
afraid that his moral weight would be ruined by the superiority of the
legal members of the Committee. The Noble Lord must bear in mind
that by the Bill the character of the Committees would be entirely
principle of the assessors. I only wish the Honourable Mem-
changed. At the same time, I must say that I have no objection
Dublin would give me the advantages he possesses over
I wish he would bring in his Bill. It is very well to say that
hitnoeer.t the
e"
petitions. Nothing is more easy that to find fault with
the interest of the House requires a new tribunal for the trial of
ofh
Selectis
Committee I hopteo that
ascertain Honourableteth e Members,iti
expedient insteadth
ao
tf
the details of any measure which may be brought in ; but I will not be-
r
s
lieve that any man is a sincere effectual improver unless he brings for-
ward
should be deprived of its powers to legislate on its own affairs
whensome
osmtemponfosrwhaarsdbaencdomsea
time is come,
to decide on its own affairs.—(Hear, hear.) I not only hope that the
principle will be broached, but that a particular plan in furtherance of it
will be laid before the House, because, really, we can make no advance
say the
--(Hear, heairn)-18I3h8o,pe
without some specific plan.—(Hear, hear.) Tell us if we are to have a
Judge and Jury, but do not refer us to a Select Committee. You may
seek-to increase your popularity by admitting your incapacity to ma-
nage your own affairs, or rather your want of integrity—it is not my
business to defend the House as it is at present constituted—(A laugh)
but this much I will say, that I shall always be found ready to assert its
privileges.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, and Sir Robert Peel and
Mr. Goulburn appointed to bring it in.
FOREIGN SLAVERY.
Sir ROBERT INGLIS rose to move an address to her Majesty on the
subject of Foreign Slavery. Three years ago was the last opportunity
the House had of expressing au opinion on this subject. Since that he

had obtained much information, and the subject had so grown upon him I
that, finding no other Member willing to take it up, he could not avoid
urging on the House the necessity of this motion. It was now thirty I
years since Parliament, joined by the universal voice of the country,
proclaimed the abolition of slavery. He never could recal that glo-
rioue time without also recalling a name which was now imperishably
united with it, because, although the Administrations of Mr.
Fox and Lord Grenville had the privilege of carrying the legis-
lative measure, the House anti the country could never forget
that it was through the untiring energy of Mr. Wilberforce
this peat measure was brought to perfection.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
What he now proposed was not abolition—the country had already
freed herself from the fotll stain of slavery—but the prevention of it
amongst our allies. It appeared from the best information that not less
than one hundred thousand victims were annually landed in the western
islands. In the course of thirty-nine years on one coast alone there
were landed 1,500,000 negro slaves, being an average of nearly 43,000
per annum. Then, when the horrors of conveyance were added, the
amount of human suffering was inconceivable.. The mortality which
took place in consequence of this illicit trading was such as, if carried
out, was calculated to be sufficient in a very short time to depopulate
the whole globe. On one occasion, when a person engaged in this
trade, was asked how many he expected to have alive at the end of the
voyage, he answered, one half.—(Hear, hear.) And another instance,
where the number of slave passengers were 335, there occurred 106
deaths in fifty days. The mortality, however, was but a small part of the
evil, for death was a happy release from the terrible endurances. He
would refer to the well-known work of Dr. Walsh, entitled " Notices of
the Brazils," to show the horrors which the contraband trade en-
tailed upon this traffic. The Honourable Baronet had read a de-
scription of a vessel which had been boarded by Captain Arabin, con-
taining 336 male and 226 female slaves. These unhappy beings were
all enclosed under hatches in a space so confined that they were corn.
!Tiled to sit between each other's legs, and even in that position were so
closely packed together that they could neither lie down, nor otherwise
change their position. They were the property of different owners, and
for the purpose of recognition they were branded like sheep, under the
breasts, and on the arms with red hot irons.—(Hear, hear.) When
the officers of the English vessels boarded, the slaves, seeing them
looking down with sympathy, shouted, and clapped hands, and in a few
Portuguese words they had teamed called out a welcome, and when the '
English officers shook hands with them they could not contain their
' delight. On examining the papers of the ship, it was found that the
slaves were taken, not north, but south of the Line, and thus after nine
hours of hope, the .design of liberating them was of necessity qbandoned.
The papers were obliged to be restored, and the last sound which the
English party heard were the shrieks of these unhappy wretches, suffer-
ing, perhaps, under the lash for the sympathy which they had created.—
(Hear, hear.) There was another more recent case in Mr. Rankin's
" Narrative of a visit to Sierra Leone in the autumn of 1833." A
vessel containing 430 negroes was captured by one of her Majesty's
brigs, the Snake, and taken to Rio ; but as her Brazilian character
could not be made out, she tvas suffered to put to sea again—had again
to ceoes the Atlentic—end these miserable creatures, in consequence of
the sufferings which they thus endured, were reduced from 430 to 335.
He admitted, while stating these cases, that there Was no want of acti.
vity on the part of the Noble Lord opposite(Lord Palmerston); but the mo-
ment that the Abolition Bill passed, and it was ratified by the Congresses
of Vienna and Verona, more should have been done effectually to repress
the greatest crime of which man could be guilty towards man. In Spain
the evil of the contraband system continued to a frightful extent.. He
would allude to one most horrible case. A certain vessel took 28 negroes
on board on the coast of Congo. It came from thence to Cadiz, and
took in passengers for Havannah. These passengers, on their voyage,
saw a quantity of very coarse food, and experienced a most disagreeable
odour. On seeking for the cause it was ascertained that the 28
'ziegroes had been confined in the hold during the entire voy-
age. Such was the result of our endeavours to suppress the
slave trade. They had increased rather than alleviated the evil
by engendering the contraband system.— (Hear.) In another instance
it was found that five young negroes had been shut up in one water
cask.—(Hear, hear.) The trade also was carried on in Portugal, and
there was reason to believe that four or five vessels had been recently
fitted out at Lisbon, yet no proceeding had been taken against the
suspeCted—perhaps the guilty—parties.—(Hear, hear.) The only
ground upon which Portugal could claim a continuance of the trade was
that of its transatlantic possessions, and with the loss of these that
claim must also cease.—(Hear, hear, hear,) In the Brazils which was
said to he a manufacturing country and requited slaves, when a despatch
was sent by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Palmetston) calling upon
them to act as they were bound to act by treaty, there Waf at once a
cry of dictation rrised. He had received a letter from a gentleman at
Rio, in which it was stated that the number of vessels at present em-
ployed in the trade was considerably greater than when the traffic was a
legal one, and that if it continued all the blacks in Africa would
shortly be imported into the Brazils.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He
would certainly make allowances for some powers, more epe-
cially when he recollected how it was that we ourselves were en-
g iged in the disgraceful traffic, and even claimed the exclusive
privilege of furnishing Spain ; but he could not make any such
allowance for Portugal, which had already received the stipulated re-
muneration for abandoning the traffic. It was not much to be won-
dered at by those who were aware of the natural cupidity of mankind,
that a trade so lucrative should be persevered in, the original, cost was
so small and the produce so great. A slave might be purckased in
Africa for 255., and afterwards sold for 450 dollars. Thus it would be
seen how great was the inducement held out for pursuit of this traffic.
The influence of this country should not be exerted on the question
whether Don Carlos should or should not govern in Spain, or Miguel in
Portugal. It should be reserved for the higher and holier purpose of
humanity, and not prove inoperative for the prevention of a most inhu-
man crime.—(Hear, hear.) He would not ask the House to take ad-
vantage of the distracted condition of Spain or Portugal if it were only
for the purpose of deriving some advantage to this country; but for the
cause of common humanity, for the honour of human nature, he would
beseech of the House to insist upon those countries fulfilling their en-
gagements. He trusted that the House would pronounce this traffic to
be piracy, and nothing less—that they would pronounce it to be whole-
sale robbery and murder. The matter should be taken up by Govern-
ment, not by the House. He would therefore move an Address to the
Throne, praying that such papers might be communicated to the House
as would show in what state the negotiations were with Foreign Powers
on the subject of the slave trade.

Mr. IRVING seconded the motion. It appeared from authentic
documents that the foreign slave trade, so far from decaeasing, Was
actually of the increase. In 1709 the number of slaves captured (as
we understood the Hon. Member) was only 9,000, whilst in 1832 the
number amounted to 200,000. This was a pregnant proof of the
rapid increase of this abominable traffic. It appeared that though
though this country had paid some millions to secure the abolition of
this trade, yet good faith had not been kept by those who (as we un_
derstood the Hon. Member) had received this money, There was one
feature in the slave trade to which he was desirous to call atten-
tion, and that was, the great mortality that occurred on board these
slave ships whilst bringing their cargoes from the place of capture
to Sierra Leone. The average length of the passage was forty days.
Now, to take an instance of a ship that was captured with 576
slaves on board, and though the vessel had a favourable
voyage, she landed only 452, no less than 124 having died
under the most distressing circumstances. He did not think that
Spain had done all that was to be expected of her in putting an end to
this traffic. It appeared that treaties were little less than useless in
Putting a stop to the foreign slave trade. The Honourable Member
here referred to some documents to show the extent to which the slave
trade on the part of Foreign Powers had increased. With respect to
America he had reason to believe that the slave trade was still mule.' on
to a considerable extent under her colours. There was also another
way in which the flag of that country was made auxiliary to the traffic.
Small craft were fitted out from the posts of the United States with
equipments and stores, for the Portuguese slavers, and these beat about
the coast for the purpose of supplying them when necessary. The Noble
Lord (Palmerston) should look to these things. Few were aware of the
immense sacrifices made by this country to suppress the slave trade.

Sir H. VERNEY said the traffic was still carried on to an unex-
ampled extent with Brazil; for, according to the statement of a
Brazilian merchant, made to him in a letter received the day pre-
viously, there were no fewer than seventeen slave ships, fully
laden, entered for clearing in the port of Rio Janiero in the last
month of 1837. These things should not be allowed to pass unno-
ticed, neither should the present opportunity be suffered to elapse with-
out a further effort to suppress the diabolical traffic. The annexation of
Texas to the United States of North America would be a death-blow to
the abolition of slavery, if some strong measures were not taken to neu-
tralise the evil consequences certain to accrue trom it to the hapless ne-
groes. It was a singalar fact, and one which he hoped the Govern-
ment would be able to explain, that those States over which England
exercised most influence were those which were most active in the
traffic.

Captain PECHELL rejoiced to be able to give the meed of his ap-
probation to the motion of the Hon. Baronet the Member for
the University of Oxford, and he only wished that the Noble
Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs had displayed such dili-
gence in getting up the papers connected with the fisheries of this
country as he had in the documents made use of by the Hon.
Baronet.—(Laughter.) The Hon. Baronet, however, was not quite
at home on the subject of slavery, coining, as he did, from Oxford—
(Laughter)—he would have been more so on pluralities, or other
ecclesiastical matters —(A laugh)—therefore, he had understated
the atrocities of the hideous traffic they were all there to condemn.
Yet, notwithstanding he had done so, his observations would have more
weight with the country than all the steam-power of high-pressure ora-
rory of a Noble Lord in another place.—(Laughter, and cries of
"Order.") He (Captain Pechell) was glad, however, that the Hon.
Baronet had cleared the character of the naval officers on the African
station from the imputations cast upon them elsewhere.—(Order.) It
was quite impossible that the Noble Lord's (Palmerston's) exertions
could ever be brought to a successful issue unless the spirit of the ad-
dress moved by the Honourable Baronet, was carried into the fullest
effect.
Dr. LUSHINGTON returned his thanks to the Hon. Baronet who
brought forward the motion, and declared his opinion that the evil was
still greater than he had represented it. There were 72,000 slaves brought
into Brazil, a similar number into Cuba, and 104,000 besides into Texas,
Guadaloupe, Bourbon, &c. He was shocked to be obliged to state that
the evils arising from the mere construction of the slave vessels were
frightful in the extreme. The greatest height he was able to hear
of between decks was three feet, and the least was not two, as
he was informed by the Governor of Geenada—(Hear,
into which island a captured slaver was brought. When it was consi-
tiered that the slaves were never once removed during the frequently
long voyages they were obliged to make, the misery and mortality must
be extreme; at least 100,000 must be destroyed for every 100,000
landed as slaves. He felt that it was still necessary to obtain not only
a right of search, but a power to punish the masters and crews of cap_
tured slave vessels, whose state of fitting-up could not be mistaken. He
complained of the cold.blooded manner:in which the American Presi.
dent spoke of the annexation of Texas, but trusted that the rising
spirit of the Abolitionists
justice
would compel him to attend to the consi-
derations of humanity and incumbent on Christian States to en-
tertain.—(Hear.)
Admiral ADAM quite agreed with his Learned Friend, and urged
the accomplishment' of a treaty with Portugal similar to that of Spain.
Lord PALMERSTON declared his admiration of the good taste and
judgment with which the Right Hon. Baronet had brought forward his
motion. He had stated, truly, that England had exerted herself nobly
and successfully to put down that traffic abroad as well as at home, and
he (Lord Palmerston) lamented to say that he had added correctly that,
notwithstanding all her efforts, the greatest cruelties still prevailed.—
(Hear, hear.) He must concur in the assertion, for he knew by the pa-
pers which had come before him, in the course of his official duties,
that the cruelties and horrors of the slave trade were greater now than at
any other former period.— (Hear, hear) He had been told by offi-
cers that when the slaves had been dragged forth from the narrow
space between decks they had not been able to stand some had never
recovered their confinement. It was- well known that many were
thrown over during a chase, not mercifully with weights, but in
casks as if to prolong their tortures to the greatest degree. Fortu-
nately the extent of the trade had been considerably diminished by
the previous efforts of England, so that the amount of misery was not
so great as it otherwise would have been. Humboldt had stated that
there were five millions of slaves in America, and it was only fair to
assume that there would have been several more, if England had not
taken the steps she did. She had already secured treaties from all
the nations in Europe that had participated in it, and satisfactory as.
surances from all the others of their best co-operation to extinguish
it The Congress of Vienna had led the way by its declaration.
Sweden land the Netherlands had consented to the appointment of
a mixad commission, and England had subsequently completed all
that could be desired, by the equipment and breaking-up articles.
Some difficulty had been felt in establishing a right of search in the
case of France, on account of the jealousy kindled and subsisting dur-
ing so long a period of previous warfare; but all was happily re-
moved by an arrangement conceding a mutual right of search, by
virtue of a warrant from the Admirals of Marine of the respective
opposite nations of France to the ships of England, and of England