The Sun.
London, England, 1814-11-29 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, Nov 28.

- The Irish Spirits Distillation Bill, and Irish Peace Pre-
servation Amendment Bill, were read a second time.
The Neutral Ships' Bill, Foreign Ships' Bill, East India
Bonds-Bill, Promissory Notes' Bill,and Irish Glass Duty Bill,
were comniitted l reported.
,Mr.'Scott, from the Whr Office, presented an account,
Stating_what regiments of Militia remained embodied,' and
what regiments had been diqembudied,' 1)w-want to Order of
the House. Laid on the Table.

The Quarterly Accounts of the Westminster-bridge Con”
raissioners were also presented, and laid on the Table.—Ad-
journed. •

HOUSE OP i:ONnIONS.

.Lord Walsingham's Annuity Bill was read a second time,
and ordered to be committed to-morrow.
Mr. LUSHINGTON moved the committal of the Hackney-
Coach Bill.; and on the question of the Speaker's leaviiig the
Chair,
GeneraI.THORNTON begged permission to. make a &w
.observations as his reason for opposing the flu titer progress
of the-Bill, at present •at least, in the forM in which it now
stood. His objeetien to- the. Bill was, that it repealed the
clause respecting delivery of tickets by the coachman; with-
out making any provision in its steed Now he was convinced,
that the clause, though proved •to -he inefficient, 'had never-
theless been productive of very beneficial effects to the pub-
It bad caused the coachmen lo be frequently stmaamned,
and though they could, notbe-ConVicted on .that clause, they
bad been convicted on the provisions of other Acts of Parlia-
ment, and fined for their abusive language, which . had pro-
duced a very great good to the Public, by having rendered
th'ese men a great deal riulie civil titan they' • had eter
been known to. be heretofore.-. He could wish also :that
the Act, to be passed on this subject shOuld• make
an alteration in respect to .the numbering the coriches.---.-
He thought the number should be painted inside the
coach instead cif outside, as it was now. Persons:wanting.
coaches were frequently obliged to get into them in t he dart,
andljtil could not in such cases see the numbers; but if they
were placed in a conspicuous place inside, there would be
frequent opportunities in passing lathps to see ,the numbers.
Ile thought also, that the fares should be placed in the -in-
side, which would altogether prevent the possibility of impo-
sition.. He hoped the Hon. Gentleman -would allow the
tickets to be continued for the present, at least : they had
latterly been found-very serviceable, an proved the means
of preventing the. coachmen from imposing on and insulting
Ladies in particular. In fact, as the Hon. Gentleman wha
brought'in the Ad. Must have' his attention such occupied
by affairs of far higher importance, he would recommend a
Committee to be appointed to consider the subject with the
r:most. deliberation; and he was the more induced to wish
for this,. bemuse the beneficial effects of the Act.of last Ses-
sien now began to show themselves more and more every
day.

Mr. LUSUINGTON said, he had no 'desire to press the
-Bill now, and would therefore move that it be committed
nn the 10th of February next, which was ordered acCord-
ingly.
M. BANKES gave notice, that he would to-morrow make
thotion respecting the auditing of-public accounts.
SUPPLY—SAXONY—POLAND.

On the Report of .4 he Committee of Supply being brought
tip, and as soon as the first Resolntion was' rea4 by the Clerk,
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that this being a matter of Supply,
and as he saw the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer in his place, he could
.not omit the oportunity of asking
Lim whether the declaration of the King of Sicily of two loans
baving.been'giarited to him by the BritiSh Government were
true, or whether it was 'to lyecOnsidered as mere newspaper
report. • .
The CHANCELLOR of theEXCHEQUER answered, that
Lord W. Bentinck bad guaranteed two sthall adVances, which
:cad been applied •for by the Sicilian Government, amounting
together to about )50,000/, which sum was, from time to
time, to be deducted from the subsidy. As he was-on his legs,
he begged leave to mention, that what he had said on a former
evening respecting Sicily and Naples had been erroneously
Tepresented in sorne of the Papers. He had been represented
to have said, that -Lord W. Bentinek bad guaranteed the
Crown of Naples .to Murat, which was wrong. • He had only
stated that Lord W. B. had undertaken to use his endeavours
to induce the King of Sicily to. accept an indemnity, in case
it should be thought necessary by the Great Powers at the
COng,ress,-that-Nuples should coutinue to-be held by the pre-
sent possessor. - •
_ _ _ _ • __ • _ • _

'Mr. WHITBREAD said, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had melted down These loans into small ad-
vauces, wbieh.were to- be paid out of the subsidy;
but he would re--assert _what be -had advanced on
a former night, that the King of Sicily had boast
ed to his Parliament of the great things which
England had-done, and was yet to do for him ;
from which he collected, that his Sicilian Ma-
jesty cherished the fond idea that England was
to guarantee the continuation of the Crown of
Naples in the family of Ferdinand IV. Re hoped
it was not so ; for such "a determination on the
part of this Government would be a most lament-
able circumstance for the English people. It was
not possible, however, for any one to imagine,
with any hope of precision, what might or might
not have beers done. Our engagements between Si-
cily and Naples had been so complicated, and ap-
peared to be so contradictory, and in opposition to
each other, that it was impossible even to guess how
we could disentangle ourselves and get out of them.
From what had just fallen from the Right Hon.
Gentleman, it would appear, that instead of a
subsidy to Sicily, we bad been voting .a -subsidy
to pay ourselves ; and it was a mere juggle, a
trick, and a pretence, to tell the House that the.
money was voted for Sicily, when it was evident
it had .been obtained for other purposes. If such
measures -were to be adopted, do them manfully,
and not impose on the House with a guess or a
supposition on one night, on another a promise of
enquiry), and on a third an evasion, by saying we
were not parties to particular measures. Look at
Viettua, and observe what was passing there. Prince
Metternich was sitting there as President with the
Ministers of the.three other great Powers, Eng-
land, Russia, and Prussia, entertaining them, no
doubt, very pleasantly, making them all very
comfortable, while he relates and instructs them
in the means liuonaparte used to adopt when in
power, and when he (Prince M.) acted the part .
of President under Buonaparte's guidance and •
dictation. He seized on the dominions of one
Prince, gave part of theta to another, and the
remainder to indemnify a third for, some slice of .1
his inheritance, • which he had taken to make a la-
voorite
,arrondissement of his own particular
pointing out. This might do with liuonaparte,
but it was not a proper lesson for an English Ali-
nister to listen to; it was not prober for such a
tear, as Lord Castlereagh,' unless to induce hint
to keep his colleagues in the dark, Who seemed
very.Aviiiine to be 14indfolded : so long as they I
could prevail on the House of Commons to'grant
thew what they asked for, they would cheerfully
promise, that though now very unwilling to
'answer any questions, they would after the recess'
tell you every thing; and then they would be able
to tell them also it was too late—the 'thing was
and they could not help it ;—Saxony was
delivered up to Prussia, and it could not he helPa
They could not deny that this robbery bad been
committed. The Right Honourable Gentleman,
however, would not favour the House with a di-
rect answer. Sometimes be said they were not
well informed ; at others, he would neither affirm
nor deny. Such, evasions were- not to be borne.
It appeared from all the rumours -in the foreign
journals, that Lord Castlereagh had assented to

• the despoiling the King of Saxony, in considera-
tion of the Elector of -Hanover haring been made
a King—a greit King with a little kingdom; -for
which measures Were to he sanctioned, which, if
true, would debase A
And degrade this country.-,
The Right Honourable Gentleman knew he had
obtained his supplies for the present year, and he
now did not care hoW soon he got rid of that
House, whom-he lOoked upon as ki• set of bad
customers. However, there . was part of the
supply that reMained to be granted, and that part
he was determined to oppose
_in every stage that
Ire possibly could.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER .saio', the
Hon. Gentletnait had been veer, warm in his ani-
madversions and in his suppositions ; but there,
were one or two questions which he should have
no objection to answer. With respect to Saxony,
be could not believe that its fate bad been. decid-
ed, because the Congr'ess, by whom it was to be
decided, had never-yet met ; much less could he
believe that a British Minister would be a party
to such A. transaction, either in regard to Saxony
or Poland. This, he had no doubt, would ere
Long appear ; and the Hon. Gentleman Would
then have cause to remember hoW much he had
said on the
.subject, of Which'he really knew 'so
little, and bow easily, he had, given credence to
all the rumours which had from day to day ar-
rived, and perhaps would have reason to be sorry
lie had lent to them'so ready an car.
Mr. WIIiTBAEAD Sabi, if be, on the present-oc-
easion, understood the Right Hon.' Gentleman
right, he had said, " that the fate of Saxony was
not decided, and that he (Mr. W.) would have
cause to remember what he had said 011 the sub-
ject." He did not knoW what •chastisentent the
Right Hon. Gentleman had in store for hint ; 'but
he could assure the Right Hon, Gentleman, he
was no way inclined to forget what he had said, •
but should be very glad to find that his present in-
formation might prove trace, and that the fate of
Saxony was really not decided, though lie could not
help fearing the contrary. As to Poland, he had never
accused. Lord Castlereagh of being a party:to any
measure against Poland; but in what condition
aid that case now stanch? The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman tells the House he hopes—he expects—he
believes : why not tell them at once, from the
tenour of• Lord Castlereagh's letters, that Saxony
was not to become the property of Prussia, and
had not been delivered up to drat Power ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped the
Hain. Gentleman would not misunderstand him :
be bad said, that
theoccupation of Saiony was
only provisional.

Mr. TIERNEY said, -he must beg leave to ask
him, whether be really meant to say this
,day,
that Saxony had not been delivered up to the do-
minion- of the King of Pru,ssia ? Did he mean to
'say, that the address made to the people of Sax-,
ony by Prince Rcpnin, in which he inform-ed them
that they were to.consider themselves in future as
the subjects of the King of Prussia, was not an
actual transfer 'of that people to the King of
Prussia, but only conveyed a provisional occupa-
tion of the country ? The Right Hon. Gentleman
wished the House to wait till the proceedings of
the Congress were promulgatCd ; so- did he (Mr.-
Tierney), if the Emperor of Russia and the King
of Prussia would wait, but they did not seem dis-
posed to do so ; and it appeared evidently to
that the fate of Saxony was decided in the most
unqualified way.-
Mr. BATHURST said;they (Ministers) were not
speaking on the ground-of reports 'or rumours ;
they had official knowledge and information that
our Minister had never assented to any decision
about Saxony.
Mr. PONSONBY said, he would willingly hope;
not only that our Minister would not be a party
to such a transaction; but
.also that the King of
Prussia would not. What had been his sentiments
and conduct at the treaty of Chaumont ? The first
Article of that treaty recited' the wrongs com-
mittedby Buouaparte in Germany, and pretended
that the Allies were anxious to recover and pro-
tect " the rights and liberties of all Nations:" yet'
in so short a time the whole of Saxony was de-
livered up to the dominion of Prussia, and the
phople transferred-like so many cattle in a fair;
and this was called a' provisional occupation of.
the country.' He should be happy if Ministers
could deny this view of the matter, but he thought
it impossible.
Mr: BATHURST said, that by the last accounts
from our Minister, nn final decision had taken
place as to the fate of Saxony.: and, as to the
contingents of the several Powers of 75,0Q0 men
each; our's were kept up for the purpose only of
preserving the peace of the Continent, when the
decision of the Congress should be finally known.
Mr. TIERNEY insisted they were kept up ex-
pressly to overawe Saxony, and make the people
submit to theplans of Russia and Prussia,' at whose
mercy they were ; and he defied Ministers to deny.
his assertion.

Mr. BATHURST said, Saxony was merely a trans-
fer from Russia to Priissia, to he held in trust in
the same way it had been held by Russia, till the
final settlement of the peace by the Congress:
Mr. WHITBREAD,denied this could be the case,
for Prince Repniu would never• have dared to make
the speech he had made to the people of Dres-
den, if he bad known Lord Castlereagh had acced-
ed to it. What were his words ? They were as
follow A compact entered into by Rus'sia and
Prussia, and to which Austria and England had
acceded, places, the future Administration of
Saxony in the hands of the King of Prussia."—
He tells them "a happy futurity opens before
thew. Saxony will cputinue Saxony—her fron-
tier will remain untouched. A liberal constitu-
tion will ensure her political existence and iudi-
victual prosperity ; and under the powerful and pa,
ternal affection of Frederick William and his des-
cendants, she will not be, as heretofore, exposed
every, half century to. the ravages of war." -1f
this paper be a truth and' not a base forgery, Lord •
Castlereagh ought to call Prince Repniu to an ac-
count for having declared publicly that he, •as the
Alinister of Englaild, had, in conjunction with
Austria, acceded to this compact, which the Right
Lion. Gentleman called a provisional transfer, but

which Prince Repuin says is a transfer not only
to the King of Prussia, but also to his descen-
dants. If it had been false, Lord Castlereagh
should not have retnaiued au hour at Vienna after
he bad seen it.

• Mr. I'AT:ft/I:ST still insiste;cl that the ProelaMa-
tion. was unauthorised ; its date appeared. to be
the I.lth of November; the last dispatches re-
ceived from Lord Castlereagh were of the very
same date, and his Lordship made no mention of
• the circumstance. 7-
Mr. TiEstNay,----We are, then, to understand
that Lord Castlereagh knely nothing of this oc-
cupation of Saxony ?
Mr. WH LTBIIEAD..—And that his Lordship was
not in .any mode aware that Saxony was to be
annexed to Prussia ?
. No answer was given.
Mr:•:Lt44rLEToN said? that he bad from rest-
dence-40kad opportunity of judging of. the feel-
ings of the people of Saxony, and be could say,
that the kingdom called in one voice for the re-
storation of its legitiMate Sovereign. With the
exception of six or seven persons, who had been
bribed by Russian money or Russian honours,
there was not a man, from the noble to the peasant,
(and in that country the peasant felt as strongly
on political subjects as the noble) who did not
protest against the annexation to Prussia. It was
the duty of the British Minister to have protested
lagainst; it if he had prOtested, and was not lis-
tened to, such a degradation could alone spring
from some misconduct on the part of our Govern-
ment, which ought to be amenable at the Bar of
the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repeated,
that it was impossible that there could have been
such a convention as that alluded to in the pro-
clamation, as 'Lord -Castlereagh must have in-
formed the Government of it.
Mr. WU ITBRE Prince Rennin has
told a falsehood Ls the face of Europe.
On the reading Of the resolution of the sum for
Parlituisentary Services,
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he observed that there
was a sum of 1051. to Mr. Rose, in compensation
for Acts of Parliament : he did not know, but it
seemed from this statement, that every Member
was as much entitled as that Right Honourable
Gentleman.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it
!- was a sum granted by custom to the Clerk of the
Parliament, an office filled by Mr. Rose.
Mr. WHITBREAD inquired into -the- meaning of
:Ilse suns of '6OOOl. voted for the conveyance of the
- Prince of the Brazils.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
the Prince had applied for a British manof war to
carry him to his eunntry, and the sum included
the outfit, stores, and other articles necessary-for
that psis-pose.
• Mr. A RBUTH NOT said, the sum was 45001. and
not 6000/. ; it was advanced at the deals e of the
Admiralty.
Mr. CHOKER added, that it was usual to allow
Officers, under such circumstances, to draw for a
sum sufficient to enable them to make proper pre-
parations ; and that the whole sum in this case
would not exceed the established allowance.
' The rest of the Resolutions were then agreed to.
Mr. WHITBREAD moved the third reading of the -False
Measures Bill : it was read and passed.
The Habeas Corpus Amendment Bill, on the motion of Mr.
Serjeant Ooslow, was read a second time. Ordered to be
committed on Friday the 10th of February next.
Mr. TIERNEY rose to ask when the adjournment would
take take place, and how long it would last.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was his
intention, if the Bills from the Lords shau.d be returned in
time, to acme on Thursday next that the House shdtild ad-
jotirn till the 911) day of February.
Sir JOHN NEWPOta gave notice of a motion to-morrow,
at to Fees in Chancery.
Mr. P. GRANT moved for ,a return ofall prisoners, male
and female, committed to gaol at Great Sessions, during, the
years 15)3-14, stating the crimes for which they wereindict-
ed, and the different punishments; also those who were dis-
charged by proclamation, and the number executed out of
the persons capitally convicted.
Mr. 11. ADDINGTON asked what was the object of the
motion?
Mr. P. GRANT said, it would throw light on the criminal
administration of the country, and on the subject so often
moved by his Honourable and Learoed Friend (Sir S. Ro-
Milly).
The Motion was agreed to; and also a similar. one as to
Ireland.

-Mr. MARSH mewed for an account of all imports from
Nova Scotia, Canada, and New Brunswick, to Great Britain
and Ireland, from 1800 to 1814 ; and also of all exports from
Great Britain and IrO.and to the same places, during the
same period. ' • •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not aware
that any inconvenience could result from the measure, and it
was agreed to.
Me. Alderman SMITH said, he should to-morrow. move
for leave to bring in a Bill to iegulatc the Assize of Bread
within ten miles of • London.

Mr• HORNER gave notice, that he should on Thursday
sub►uit to the House a motion cut the subject of the Naval
Administration of the War in North-America.
DISEMBODYING OF THE MILITIA.

Sir S. ROMiLLY desired that the Militia Acts,
• 48th and 49th of the King, might be read. '(They
were read by the Clerk.) He was of opinion, that
in omitting to disembody the Militia the Mini-
sters had acted illegally and unconstitutionally.
When he used this term illegal, he was far from
meaning that the Militia
.so continued were
exempt from their•usual military duty; they were
'still subject to military law, and bound to pay
the strictest obedience to their Commanders.
remained solely with his Majesty to disembody
and release them : and - the only question •'was,
whether his Majesty ought—not; according to.
law, to have been advised so to disembody them.
The institution of • the Militia had always been
considered as a most excellent branch "of our
Constitution, and on which we might firmly rely
for.the support of our liberties. There had al-
ways prevailed a just jealousy of a standing army,
as a force which might he employed against the
of. the o the country, .separated as the
soldiers were from the, rest of their countrymen
by their different code of laws, by tilde habits of
thinking, by their modes of living, and froM
being embarked in their profession for life. But
the militia was a' constitutional body:' not an

army, but a mass of arwed 'citizens ; never dis-
joined from their families, except in urgent cases,
and even when On actual service, not losing, but
only !laving suspended for a time the advantage
of the• equal laws of their country. He must
„therefore confess, that though he admired those
high spirits who on an occasion of extraordinary
emergency bad volunteered their services to fight
a foreign enemy abroad, yet, perhaps, it might
be matter. of regret that they. bad not sacri-
ficed their personal glory to the benefit of
that ,constitution which their very, gallantry
tended to infringe. The-preeedent might be drawn
into evil ; it might destroy the character of
litia bodies; what had in the first instance been

cousidured as gratuitous, might heiegfter be ex..

. ' II 1!
',1109 i
pected as a right. Froth the earl's' tit .
note A
been the law, that such persons could Tbelr
pelted to serve out of their countesp'j ego
and 42d of the present King foll°' A— tsotinjil,
visions and safeguards of all :forme" -,ctlieluilsl
subject, though it was now added, Flop 05151,0ci h
might be called out to prevent invasi°tel otacl',i' ii
tott. repel it. The first Act was passed ill 'fi,i,i, cjplt l
o the' American war, and it wet " 0 cre ‘i
derable opposition, though its dir",ti,°lls theili Il
to be for seven years. Now, wita`.:loss;fi't‘‘ 41
sent case ? On the 3il of last Jane Pc'",,ost tftll 11!
with France, and we enjoyed the 1".-f o'9' ft)
111,1rIllni:tyilailllsiltlyoualttl I:•oenntlacin el finb'ointlieltPli,tetbofred:isi'is:;;l 11(
reason why it might not so cont,inT6s it „c' it,
_the, rest of his Majesty's reign. ull'ie; ell'.ltil
.he. stated that there were DOW for iiltri(ii th
to invade this country, c'r s'iniCro'' IV tt
foes, the inference must be, that the willlo,ll
at liberty to retain- this species of icirceel. l' il it,
reasons for raising it had entirely ce,_3ls-s' I'l'cli:it' %1
great and urgent cause existed for-'3o,e Ila,ol tt,
ing, let it be fully and, fairly stated 000etl:ti N
_ Whatever might be the opinion of-ti'et ti si 11„eeoi! 1"
the question, he was extremely gla(!; '4,t 5.j-0, tl,
brought it forward. It would be at :e.tesili"er Ih,
after times, that the proceeding of Mil° 0(11V I 4A.
pass the House without aniniadvli°llljiir,iiii th
terity would be idle to judge of the vs,:i 0? tli,
He trust': tbet'le 1.,,'
arguments then advanced.
would consider the-present iiistalicilh:ofellgo kt
example to be avoided, than to be ti"-•cii '''' 11
concluded by moving a resolution, "1 Inotrc'o, k;
substance—y' That it appeared to the jeseilit,
peace had been concluded for more thsn 'lliff'iii4 lii,
, 1p ,
ant( the country enjoyed internal tran'jleoi!).‘.lol
still keeping part of the Militia f°'°,,lir'''oj lit,
thewa act obviously()ftiie 47:11 torfartyhet()Ktililleg!taitnefsBviiollllool,
the, principles of the Constitulion:' 1 00'1
withstanding
SOLICITOR-GENERAL CORICSSe; be Il' #ll' ttl'il
..ithstanding the deference anti resPecard 1)e, t)c )1i
cgtifeta)ieeliti-iilreteetitis6sa%'etivi.iii(o.inlitcleriti::stolini(elcin,leo:nceofayd‘ferseelniroi
commented
itoll'loa- to-retain tilaklllisi,nfh
i(Illetrl ti°Fuefillosal aariutnole.t:cebel°)lneli.figlil:l°lol)l'ol:'e:ll,'o:i‘e4;l
illt‘klii'
he had already given, and which "i'lesl",l3,ctc'
, c
illegallye iN, c , thatiin ti
gaily, --- -111(., in a great degree, es )/i1):,111' 1/4q,
except b e
Ithose
eitorphixitlscepieoase.AdidieiNil‘i."l,eilisasii
blieticieiesiyagsi.tioyitosit'..itisß.ei
figiy.c,;.l,:iicii.o,siei,itii:i)::;,,t,goilecteytrttis,:iiiecies:cistiriiii,e,
literiy,i(oe;:ls)(:,cii;iii,itovel
k,,1,i4..,i111,11,,,
they felt it necessary to' act opal) "allele! litti
sibility,.,.( and call upon Parliainent ,ved it•kti.l
, to
an indemnity. Although he conce' 0 046., Itti'
he
continue the. Militia embodied 14(,elli'resr'Y, iltlit)l
ie allowed that Ministers would b' 'it" 0'0;11:4 k7l
for the advice they should give "le ps Wi'l "44
t tat subject. - He 'could conceive 01,5" e of tri? "ht
advicel to continue the Militia ill tirlii.jCeeLicOil it,
might be impolitic, unwise, oreven,,,,P 0101 ir, ;:',A
corrupt motives. The Ministers 1" oclaili,',l7, i.cti
would be responsible for the advice t lie'ot‘fr '''i
thgieivielletghael.crown, but still ,it could • net be. 614 Ilit
There was a great ditrerel,llllc;ilt: t,lt
le power of calling out the Alilitia, 3''‘'s• ere d'''' ,%t:
tion of disembodying them after the?' ocl tied k\c,
. out. He allowed. that Ministers ~°:'310:1i, Zit
ing most illegally, if they advised l'ej-pt 101:11 L 1)
call_ out or embody the Militia, ,rye Act', err
tt
hheo sec
Militialses mentioned
niilaiogfttlelitdi.lex al
lyinbteheeaAllec(t:ol::::ei.):ll: s7:l;zt
ever,_ which pointed out the specific e,4 bstit'llo:: i'')l;
signed any specific period at %vitich
tbdliiseerileilbo°red,jecsi the Y, 00% p kilii
.I:s:t,eatiellsslnts:st.tiiiysLetroteloea.ktt ioillieiglesa:tll,tvvlinesolicietitti%tiiivetaeergso:alifiettgyha-ellt°:';:iitlitif li'qiilt'
upon to give an opinion as ala wYervel'ill/ 4.
ill coe , kt
of the Militia force still embodied' ,Isleii'lin't'lei,, I.i'
exercise of the Prerogative in the ' .c-ilt illicit(' 'til
this,Lt.t.aieteta.iiiv.lleia e;Ftihaes uponlw itl :s exerciseteevtesroyftec r owon(f stillee;eiliti°.e.)lsl3, 11"1°:ii:ii tie
111,01tiNe'env(ei r(,ssiirnsce.
Itthoennj
itlityle,
r°et,
taielit'utieohtl,s,ioi
Il.;
veral times over with the greatest 3.'siell-ih;i 1,1
hetl. felt perfectly convinced, that Dlifiloj 011 tt,
hadis
ni(in)etsgtaanilcye'el(ll'obooe:lsiiiieale(oyylt:litliatnidlgabtilel,aeesig-I::'ctiticeilleOstilllie:iieittilljtelloi#o:il.dl!
14;11itt'itIlirIt!'
violated either the act o
Consitution. A Ge`i,,,teriti NI
.
. Lord MILTON* wished the Learri- iere'iort Id
instead of confining himself to the ncitier IP4 It
httotilliblileetlrieAowtclity,st::,
nsshpnaoitoill.lietac
,lisr;aioetillsdteal k:lel'inen tahnie:Aitltogc.thas,iisii:(etel
c°sl.,lf.sllseit:illitelit,!itt:iii.jt',.gli
ti!„.ltitliiii,
clieeartliym_espwechi:n the Militia should be,tjo't Illei toCio'l li!:;
the Mifilietilaw, Forth
coming
to the conclusion, that vt'llcjioog` j ),,t
agiiicothivileallolviales 'inita!'pleoistsilbtlic:l)ste:ciollrer i,;:t;1.
ceased to exist, the 31ilitia oaght 11° ro 11e
liP VA '45
main embodied ?
Sir,A. PIGOTT was glad the questi°,t:reaftte°l4,lier '.
Drought before the llouse, as it 4„Pnt-tlis tide,/ t
Definitive
unconstitutional that six 111-illitir,4 tiro kl,
(tritri.otia,;_enlat,:filgtufne:ilrf;atoilitlviiilelietlscriali'lrotialir.rois,avieltiala.yaastb.lyielifj-iofssursetP(elioteicaseteciirleoitri.rtile:ll,iiisii:l.::,,,:ielietbieiclit:pliitceel;,fileetil:tit:,,dpiog ::ii,ll4.,ll,ititi,
.i his measure, which was now itile/'-iprec: cv1)1 lill,l
Crown,
any It would /lave u„eas"l6‘ollPl ,I„s'
kli,clisawlkp%iieotoa.teporeilt.it.vieoultolpie..ylepto:(%insiveinti•l:tdln,libtggieoleillelteceieblitigtno:yil'illet',Ac-eyalisteeolast:tilu'prt‘'iit:'itirir)gibililbi‘ligi,ia,vl.irteatie)°:ls,%stistalliP:hlpc.ievt:rol.aleelelitstlienasliessie7)(eldelit: ','
‘,,:llt,tlitit,Tilttttitttililllit:ttt:':'
_eaululisneglfolitievitfeettialiiiilreeim•iii‘.diculotis appr,ehe°ll,e rirrrot i° i''
werethe state
sititellitcoaieualiansteeirl'avastetl'ivill'ileteotil'iticil: te'vti!:°:::j.:licsi‘°::::lii:ilielit!illfrliil?; sitII t'll11441,1:1
not adequate to ,-' nothing thgosve' III') '4
ti
should{ be been
le , od,l' Na
, i. 00 ' 11" ff J 't t
o c t' 0
thought •
principles,
deeplyineacean;ndieltssiincßtanioiel:E.ctyre:elut(nnoltpcloobssuir;:ib:l;;Pne:::i(iit'lltPl::::ll:L'aiers;ll:lll:::(''l4 i'''4:
'll
rticu
' .

1
1

, •
.tf,„ and p .011, tO7COrfeet what ,the
wile ion G
laid meats tits of h.• entieman bad stated to be the
ttlighttllat the A 1.5 Learned Friend, who had not
titta-"ep it Militia being called out Ministers
he Aualeiit embodied for ever. IA no part of
he 174 been hads he advanced any thing like what.
iiiprO said, 't''PPosed to state.; on. the contrary,
itehesent eire Hat though-there might be nothing
ij.:; the kiii..unistances to render. it necessary to
iftliettion oft'f,,a einbodied, yet it was left to the'
trete
,`"'nverntrient when to disembody it.
Wr:then time pointed out for disembody-.
waslhsters
were bound to do so ; but if
took thei_ specified, then • they were left to
the r discretion. • The House should
it.siieo Act generally, and . see _what con-
-Imuler •el shoat circumstances, ninst be put upon
(I'.,,tristerniciellr to everyone, that there was
4(1 'lltia) a' difference between calling out
tand disembody them. He admit-
tiElet't suntan Government might think it
itte
ex them our, they would not be
Nl4?tiet' HeiesPtir) one of the cases mentioned in
ler the Learned Friend (Sir A. P.) would
t(e;i'artitt;eb:lilt.iiation in which he would place
Nrltt '.11.), Is construction of that Act, which
t 0 b with humble submission, could not
(akttia w
est tile trite one. In all cases in which
a
iltrq a C;11.„ be called out, the Legislature
•"dyin,,` s" to word the Act as to leave the
I_4ll lt iv i) to discretion One section said,
411,4114111
thinkter bear) fit. He stated from me-
d; but was pretty certain the
;seteid when the King should think
tit ire'ell he • t • d • t " If
yfile nig it judge expedient." ten .
', terms,to h and he was quite pertain
40(1.:11 Oto. e found in the Act (hear), what
Prete ,anguage could be more explinit ?
ri'D r.',"ed that Ministers had not acted
te 7' His- Learned Friend (the So-
S4li4 tgai t' "ad said, that -though it was not
t,e't () keep the Militia embodied, yet
ti (),Ild
"t 8 if be responsible if they acted im-
,
•t 0 ti• t been intended to compel Ali-
‘lt444il ''''Clubod • '
L.ter_ y t Legislature
ocils q 421%, 'Le such provisions.. Might
. not
Aliiirst circumstances in keeping it
' t„el:3 had clone nothing illegal,
41 to Constitution ; and. he felt it
Per, end "te, that, the opinion w hich his
")i)
"city (the Solicitor-General} had given
4 •
• emit with the law and consti-
Pott
ts"ilY
bte 'tlr was - never more surprised than
• • ,
k,,,tic),l4)(Un t ies lie had heard. Nothing was
apt, this,—that he who puts a con-
ttit,its fire ,• e mere letter of the law, without
&Plat •
4,, its" dt, intention does not pro-
ttle um was a principle known and
'hives 41.10lieitrY judge in Westminster-hall.—
kltti thehtl 41171 -„Gettera• I advanced other doe-
-01. 1,-.d hint more : he bad said, that
1114,1 it once
tail once gets an armed force in its
keep it embodied as tong as it
• bets •" tie It heard of prerogative
time atictie never heard ofsuch as these since
41t
hit,„,{ 4teti the` hrone• It was said, that
1 NI illy the specified when the Crown should
044'4 Cr ; but the sole discretion
tatesene the",'wu was this,—whether it was fit
-stshreclilitia on foot, with reference to,
('aitilv. as, tip trhide it legal to embody it. His
ttittl %De Batt site Militia ‘vk;s now unlaWfAillY
hc'.4efl,,;ll' been said, that as no time had
441 pia to en the necessity of disembodying
tit aik • operate, there was no limit-so
• itoetl , %elite
, This unseated to pay far the maitt-
i till silt, eont,ent, however, night not be
1) ?Inc, or twelvemonths after the
lit4N taw this force should have been
,I„,.'"et,,i!.._violatioti of the law might have
Othecoll4 uefare the remedy could be appli-
lt fro • ered that there was but one course
ii• at Ivrt t
'Pc 'vita . 0- adopt 'in such emergencies,t°. cibtain a new Act of the Legis-
tte;Nr
thr, tholight the Hon. Members on
ttti'''tlla` coils° rf
a- loss House At a loss to eseane
°
ter enenn Inenees of their own arguments.
•
kot4l t . lavas,_ Inatnelit was destroyed, the
ialt.ruiteot."l could no longer be said to be
4nri. notwitlistandiug this
bee 4, "ger, the Militia continued to be
4111ill"ist., 'se that dantrer might revive, with
114 tti tiey
Blip e could they maintain that it -was
uu• •,-• , • ,
-t '•ekcilieit eases twat tots orce
tt Y
. -pt embodied ? Was not this a
?4tl(_,ltt of the construction of the
'its iq
tt the 4e would wish to call their at-
'ets for • itime Local Mi-
tr.gtoite, teginating
time for disembody Mg them
Vh, n th',nett. Here was, then., a marked
the different Acts re-
-I,it,Not ig new tet Species of force. It was
~4';;Vitt, oYed a 0 saY, that the Militia might
k44iitioietrsesg4glielarsAtrolll;nable the Crown to dis-
for general'purposes. In
alp houseas sent from the Throne in-
ttle,Altiiiiat. the FrenCh meditated in-
term luta was- accordingly called
:111.11vai k;Ark:it,ke,
and although the threat or Fo-
il' tkir4iltii„t ion was . Ali-
, ise„,_ never renewed; the
R„ ~(tecl, hilt,- on the contrary,
- 'Augmented til the conclusion
ht i.'l fth• Peace, •pt
„•11,. • • ‘(,tll •I'tr It" dut,ht wiiitia was thus c 'reo
tPipose of internal defence,
tit,,l4itie) Vet ti,. attaintnentof foreign ob 7
01 'at was a period whet' constitu-
>ttilllNi' Ne 'trtt -
P y discussed and fully un-
ptoi 3 til): totteheai'ed the instance which had
r 1 'Y we. ( "Pon of.tbe American war.
t,' eti ' e called • -
11,,"th,"111 surrecti_ Out, in eonsequenc,e of
tritt tht, .le pr they were kept up aitet -
•i lir • uoithat •
tt,' 11,1 11, of ths, ty of invastoil ; and. yet
sai titt:pcohation was heard. Now,
ad
.alhianger had disappear-
IN, taint ha .(-)liiekvliat surprised to hear
N•'t ° proir„os •
,'l4-11 eRt, .t t, .tieated nothing but
itokhthe.C4ttiori_ distractions from the issue
0111a11014 a.t Vienna, • Differing as he
e titte he still thought there was
tit IN to ttil Lurope, e:chl on the and whilst such a
c),11 tag sa.. continent for Our regular
ettte',, ihßiot (.I',Gictorily the •reasons and
'Azo'"'et • ,
embodied a- portion of
_011,., •
,
a Jew words with icspect to

The necessity of keeping good faith with Indi-
viduals who enlisted only fore limited period. -
ColonehQsßoßNE_ s'aid; principals and substi-
tutes.vvere engaged with on the same, terms. •
Sir Si Roium.l.-• Was sorry thU•t he could not
congratulate the House on the course which, this
discu;sion had taken:' It now appeared that the
Militia were not to be disembodied, whilst the
American-war or the Congress at Vienna should
continue. • If the spirit of the law was not to be
examined, the science of law must be degrided ;
a Holt, a Hardwicke,.. a Talbot, or a Mansfield,'
and all the luminaries and.oracles of our jurivru-
dence, bad been deceived. Lord Coke, too, must
have been in a great error when he observed; that
those who confined their attention to the mere

letter of the law would.seldom comprehend its
meaning or its object: The real question' was,
whether the Crown had an indefinite power to
keep on foot the Militia as long as it thought fit,
contrary ro the express words of an Act of Parlia-
tilent. On thh question he should divide-.the
House, though he should stand:alinie on the oc-
casion.

- After a fear words-from Lord PALMERSTON the
House divided ; when there appeared,
Against the' Motion - 97
. For it

- Majority —6s
ARMY ESTIMATES.

The !louse then went into a Committee of Sup-
ply, iii which a grant was moved for 135,0001. for
defraying the expenses of certain Militia Regi-
ments not disembodied, for the period Of 62 days
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to
explain the grounds on which this vote was pro-
posed. It had been considered by some Gentle-
men a singular circumstance, that white part of
the Militia were kept embodied,_ the reLzular Army
had been reduced. Now on this- head it Was true
that 24 second battalions of the regular Infantry
bad been reduced; and the reason was, they were
so inefficient in point of numbers, that t -e whole
24 battalions did not muster more than 8500
men. Of these, 6900 had been einbodied with the
Ist battalions, and the remainder had been dis-
charged, either -for infirmity, or because their pe-
riods of service had expired. By this measure a
considerable reduction of expellee had been ob-
tained, attended with little Or no reduction of mi-
litary strength. It was obvious, however, that
the war with America, and the keeping lilt of a
considerable body of troops on the Continent,.re-
quired the maintenance of a large military force ;
and Government, on the, most mature -delibera-
tion, thought that that force would best be ren-
dered disposable by keeping embodied a part of •
the Militia.

Mr. WHITBREAD contended, that the keeping
up of a part of
.the Militia was any thing but 3
deliberate measure on the part of Government.
The truth was, as facts spewed, that it was a sud-
den thought on their part ; for the Bedfordshire
and the Oxfordshire militias were actually arres-t-
-ed when on their march to be disembodied: The
whole spirit of the Militia system had been broken
down (not, indeed, the spirit of the men or the
officers) ever since the -Volunteering Act. of 1799.
The Act -of .17.72 declared, that a moiety at least
of -the property of the Militia Officers should lie
in the county to which their regiment belonged ;
and now he Would appeal to anyGentleman,.whe-
ther-this gulifir.ation- was not disregarded. -
Mr. BATH U HST observed, that by the-recruiting
fforn the Militia alone, this country had been en-
abled to make those exertions of which we all now
knew the result. That policy, therefore, 'Could
not surely he matter,of regret. True it was, that
the retaining part of the Militia' embodied was.lloC
a systematic measure on the part of Government,
,but was dictated by the demands for the employ-
ment of the regular forces abroad.
The grant was then put, and carried._

Lord PALMER6TON morel a grant of 55,0001.
for the maintenance of Volunteer, Corps i» Great
Britain and Ireland, for a space of 182 days, com-
tmencing with the 15th of December. _

Mr. .1. P. GRANT really thought there was an
understanding- on a former night, that this vote
should be withdrawn altogether; and-he was now
surprised to bear it brought forward without the
smallest preface.
Lord PALMERSTON acktiowledged that the vote
was withdrawn at the suggestion of•his Right
Hon. Friend (Mr. Vansitfart) ;- but it .was. only
for reconsideration, and not with an intention to
drop it. It had been reconsidered, and the esti-
mate for England reduced from 50,0001. to
30,0001., and that for Ireland to '25,000/. The
reduction from last year was still more consider-
able, when 1'20,000/. had been voted fur the vo-
lunteer service in-England alone. •
Mr. J. P. GRANT cdmplained of the profusion
with Which Ministers squandered public money,

The CHANCELLOR Of. the EXCHEQUER Said, it
would be improper to put an end to these corps
all at once, and, above all, highly objectable to
disband the Irish yeomanry.
' Mr. I'EELE spoke strongly of the importance of
the ycomany of Ireland. To rebut the charge of
profusion brought by the Honourable Gentleman,
he would simply state to what extent the Irish
Government had reduced 'the Estimates for the
Volunteer Service. In 1812 it .was 348,0001.
in 1814 it was 312,000/. and now it was reduced
to 58,0001.

Mr. BARHAM expressed an opinion that it would
be advisable to dismiss the volunteers now there
was no longer occasion for their
.services. He
opposed the question, because the sum to be voted
xyaa without application.
Mr. ADDINGTON expressed his surprise, that
Gentlenten on the other side should appear's° im-
patient to get rid of that valuable description of
force, t he Volunteer Cavalry, to whose zeal, spi-
rit, and exertions, the country owed such lasting
obligations. He was not aware that it was, in the
contemplation of Government to impose upon the
individuals who composed those corps the incon-
venience of making them a part of the permanent
Peace Establishment but he trusted that it would
be the general feeling of the House, that it would
be highly inexpedient and imprudent hastily to
dissolve them, especially when it was admitted
that the affairs of Europe were still in a very un-
settled state, respecting which, however, he could
not participate in the, alarm which some Gen-
tletun expressed. The expense of the Yeomanry
corps was wholly incomnieusurate to the services

which they had rendefed; and to ..saine Of which
they might be, applied; and the Hon. Gentleman
who spoke last was wholly in an error iiisuppos-
-ing; that when once disposed • of they could be
easily recovered. Every possible degree of eco-..
noisy road been applied to this description of force,
the e.kpence of which this year ainonining t'o no-
thing more than the annual allowances; and
the pay of the permanent . Staff,
,the estimate
for which was now on the table. Even this
was gradually decreasing.; several corps, con-.
ceiving. the .main object for-which they had' arigi-
nally,stood forward to be at an end, had volun-
tarily disbanded themselves, and no one would
feel that the smallest discredit attached to them
for so doing, after haiiing seen the danger entire-.
ly passed away,
_which, to their eternal honour,
they have been so instrumental idaVerting.
Mr. WHITBREAD thought it surprising, tharin
the midst of a profound peace with the Continent,
it was, thought necessary to keep up_ an armed
police in the country, with bayonets on ,their
muskets, and broadswords by their sides. Stich
thidgs neve'r had been before. These "corps had
volunteel'ed for the war--that war had ceased, and
in Eig.,,land AP least he saw not the slightest occa-
sion for their further services.

.Lord PALMERSTONT, in illustration of the im-
propriety of diSblnding- the volhnteers all at once,
said he,had that day received a letter from a Com-
mandant of Volunteer Cavalry, stating great re-
lactanceto be dismissed on the part of the • corps,
as they had been induced to suppose would be the
case, from what had passed the other...night in the
flopse. They begged, rather than be dismissed,
io serve without -any allowance.
Mr. BARING solid, his objection /o the vote was
from the expense' which it entailed on the country.
The truth was,.,we.were exhausting ourselves by
our expenditure even in peace,.
Alter some further ieniarks froni-Mr. Fitzgerald, Sir John
Newport, Mr. J. P. Grant; Mr. Whitbread, and Lord Pal-
merston, an Amendment was proposed for inserting 25,0001.
instead of 55,00014 and leaving out the words Great Bri-
tain;" upon which a division took place, when the Amend-
ment was negatived •by 45 votes • .
_A long. conversation also ensued upon the next. Vote, that a
snm not exceeding 6,701 i/. 6e granted -for paying Salaries and
Pensions of ()Ulcers ap,d other. persons on the Superannuated
No; after whicli the Resolution was agreed to. Report to-
morrow.,. _

The Report on the Thread and Silk Lace Bill was agreed
to,:ind:ailillordeted to be brought in.

The Orford Harbour linproveiaent Petition was reported
to the House, and leave give!, to bring in a Bill.—Adjourned.

PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS.

ABSTRACT OE mditTANT PARLIAMENTARY

PAPERS.—(To be continued regularly)

Ft NAmcg.--The Etima.te for the relitf of Suf-
fering Clergy find Laity of France, Toulonese and
and Corsican Ernigra►;ts, &c:Pomingo Sufferers,
and Dutch Naval Officers, amounts thiS' year (and
i'obaby it will be the last) 'to only-15,0001.

In an Account of Add'Ns Mo,nies; the items
appear of 79,3841. advanced as extraordinaries on
the Civil List Revenue, and not,yet replaced by
Parliament :—and in another account are the
ite~rls of 11-,932/.-advanced out of said List in con-
sequence of Addresses, and not part of the Ordi-
nary, Expenditure of that List. Among the latter
are sums to Sculptors for the Monuments to Mr.
PERCEVAL,'Lard COLLINGWOOD, Sir -J. BROCK,
Generals Bourgs
,and De MERCHANT, and Colonel
CAD9GAN.

LEGISLATURE.-The Hackney-ccach Act Re-
peal Bill pr(ivides, that after blink,

`-‘ So untchof the said.recited Act as requires the
owners or drivers of hackney Coaches to, provide
such notes and tickets as are in the. said Acts de-
scribed, and as requires the, delivery of 'any such
notes or tickers befnre' the receiving of any
fare, and -as require the production of any such
note or ticket before the Making of any com-
plaint ; . and also so much of the said Act as im-
poses any 'penalty or forfeiture in-relation to such
notes or tickets, and all provisions' and regula-
tions relating to•such notes or tickets. in the said
Act contained, shall be, and the same is and are
hei eby- repealed." . •V

FROM SATURDAY'S GAZETTE.'

Iretr-Oflice, Nov. 26; 1814.

fst Regiment of .Foot Guards. T. C. Askew, Gent. to be En
sign, witheut-purchase, vice Simpson, promoted.
Coh,Stream Regiment of Foot Guards, William Serjeantson,
Gent. to'be Ensign, vice Vachell, dead of.bis wounds.
• 9th Regiment of Foot, Lieutenant William M'Ailkin to be
Captain of. 'a CoMpany, by purchased vice Godwin, promot,
ed in the sth West India Regiment.
12th Ditto, Captain George Humphry, from half-pay of the
~ late 105th Regiment, to be Captain of a Company, repay-
ing the difference, rice Hastings, who exchanges.
ilst Ditto, SecoUd Lieutenant David Rankine to be First
Lieutenant, vice Gracie, killed in action. Richard Hill,
Gent. to he Second Lieutcnant;Vice Itankiue..
54th Ditto, Ensign C. W. Thomas, from the :38th Foot, to
he Ensign, vice Pellett, who retires upon the half-pay of
the 38th Foot.
54th Ditto, Lieutenant John Sleator to be Adjutant, rice
Lewis, deceased.
60th Ditto, Captain Thomas Maling, from the 2d Garrison
Battalion, to be Captain of a Company, vice Fane, who re-
. tires upon the' half-pay of the 2d Garrison Battalion.
67th Ditto Ensign John Hanna to he Lieutenant, without
purchase, vice Johnstonevprosnoted.. Daniell, Gent. to bp
Ensign, by purchase; vice•Greenwell, promoted.
1134 Dirto Lieutenant James Hardman to be Captain of a
Company, vice Strawbenzee, deceased. Ensign. John I'ar-
nall to be Lieutenant, vice Hardman. Gentleman Cadet
-----,—.Carmack, from the Royal Military College, to be
Ensign, rice Parnall. •
85th Ditto, Ensign Thomas Hunt to be Lieutenant, with-
. out purchase, vice Williams, promoted. Gentleman Cadet
H. Brooke, from the Royal Military College, to be.EnSign,
rice Hunt.
95 Ditto, Gentleman Cadet. Charles Lostock Boileau, from. '
the Royal Nlilitary College, to be Second Lieutenant, by
. purchase, rice N. esfield, promoted. •
Royal AffiCan-,Corps, Lieutenant Bradshaw Clark tp be Cap-
tain of a Company, vice Skene, appointed to the 10th Royal-
Veteran Battalion. Richard Bryant, Gent. to be Ensign,
without purchase vice Woods, promoted.
Royal York Rangers, Lieutenant-Colonel Robert. WNab,
fivm the Stair as an Inspecting Field Officer of a Recruit-
ing District, to be Major, vice Ewan, promoted in the
Yoik Chasseurs. ' .