The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-07 00:00:00

SA.I97RDAY

JUL Y 11149,

I wages, comparing 1845 with 1849, because between those two
periods the Ten Hours' Bill had been introduced ; and
that it was not to be expected that men would be paid
the same wages for ten hours that they had received for six-
teen hours. Here there had been a reduction of wages, not
on account of time, for the same number of handkerchiefs had
toebe made. Well, then, what was the result? In 1845,
for a piece of work of 65 yards, there was paid 3s. 6d.; in
1849, and for the same work, the price was 2s. 7d. In
1845-46, for 64 yards of plaid, 4s. 6d; in 1849, fur 65 yards,
there was paid 3s. In 1847, there was paid for 44 yards
of check, 4s. 7d.; in 1849, for 68 yards, there was paid
3s. 3d. The same species of reduction took place with re-
gard to all the various articles made in Manchester;
they all showed an excess of sums received in 1845 and
1846, as compared with 1849. He was, sorry that the late-
ness of the hour prevented him from going into the
details of this subject because they really were of very
great importance. But then it was said that there
had been a reduction of expenditure on the prices
paid for several articles. He would now show to what it
amounted. There was a saving en various articles of wear-
ing apparel and bread, such as on shoes of 3s. 9d. ; stock-
ings, 10d. ; on handkerchiefs, Is. ; and on the price of bread,
2s:. sd. This was for a man with a wife and two children.
Then the whole gain on the various articles was 6/. 19s. 141
This was the gain on the purchase of 1849, as compared
with the prices paid in 1845. The wages of the operative in
1848 was Sc, a week less in 1849, as compared with 1845-46.
It was less per annum by 13e, so that the man with a wife
and child suffered a total loss of 6 . and a fraction of a
penny. lie did not say that these statements were to be
relied on implicitly.—(Hear' hear.) But when his Right
lion. Friend read a letter, he felt that he was justified in
reading a letter in a different tone—(Hear)--and it was but
fair
to give the account of the poor operatives themselves.—
(Cheers.) The question was one to be decided by facts—in
granting a Committee, they would have the means of inves-
tigating facts, and they might then know which party was
right, and which wrong.— (Hear, hear.) The Right Hon
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in answer to his Hon..
Friend, had said that employment was the one thing wanted
—that it was to want of employment they were to attribute
the increase of poor -rates and the filling of their gaols—and
then he added that he had great hopes that employment
would improve, and that it would not be much longer wanted
hi the country; and he said that he hoped and trusted in
the energy of their farmers as well as in their skill and
capital. One fact, however, would show the distress of the
agricultural counties—it would do so much more than if he
were talking for hours together. In Lincolnshire, one of the
most respectable agricultural instrument makers informed
him that the weekly wages paid by him in June, 1847, was
1301 165., and in June, 1849, it was 62/. 14s. The number
of men employed at the former period was 120, and at the •
latter period 70. This was entirely owing to the low price
of agricultural produce, as the farmers did not buy
those implements, as they thought that, perhaps,
they would not be able to pay for them.
He asked the Right Hon. Gentleman, then, what chance had
those persons of being employed when the number of imple-
ments were reduced, because the farmers had not the capital
wherewith to buy them? His Right Hon. Friend (Sir R.
Peel) had stated there had been a diminution in our exports
of the value of nearly 7,000,0001. since the year 1845-6, and
that on considering that reduction they must bear in mind
the reduction in the price of the raw material, in the price of
provisions, and in the rate of wages. Now, what had been
the reduction of price of the raw material as compared with
the reduction in the exports? According to " Burn's Statis-
tics" the value of the manufactures exported in 1845 was
22,419,9881., while in 1848 it was 18,791,4141., bei,pg a
falling off of 22 per cent. The Custom-house returns
showed a diminution of ten per cent. But as the raw mate-
rial formed a third part of the quantity of manufactures, it
followed that the net value of the manufactures, exclusive of
the raw material, in the year 1848 amounted to 12,527,6101.,
and the depreciation of tee per cent. amounted to 1,252,761/.
With regard to the increase of exports in the last four
months, it was mainly owing to the reduction of the quantity
consumed in the home market; and if the time should come
when the agricultural interest would be again in a prosperous
condition, the exports would again fall off. But there was
another reason for the increase. A great part of the exports
had been sent to America in anticipation of the high tariff
which America -was likely to pass. The continental disturb-
ances had been assigned as a reason for decline of trade.
Had not he (the Marquis of Granby) and his friends
warned the advocates of free trade of the consequences of
giving up the home market, which they had under their
own control, and relying instead upon the markets of the
Continent? But their warning was unheeded, and yet now
they attributed their present disstress to the failure in the
exports to the Continent. But they exaggerated that
cause. The reduction attributed to the continental dis-
turbances was much less than they imagined. The mass
of the consumers of their goods lived in the agricultural
districts, while the disturbances were principally confined to
the towns, where the manufacturing workman -lived, where,
while on the barricades, they were unable to work, but
still the consumption went on, though the working stopped,
and consequently the falling- off in the consumption of
English manufacture was less than was supposed. In the
report of the proprietors of factories it was shown
that during the last three or four years there were disturbing
causes affecting the consumption of textile fabrics, which
were independent of political disturbances on the continent,
which did not exist at that period. Before sitting down, he
must refer to what had fallen from the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, when he taunted the country gentlemen of England
with a desire to increase their rents to pay off their mort-
gages and their family settlements, at the expense of the
labouring classes. If that statement had been made by a
hired delegate of the Anti-Corn-law League—( Hear, hear)—
instead of by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the British
House of Commons, he (the Marquis of Granby), if his voice
were sufficient to make him be heard, would not let it pass
in silence.—(Hear, hear.) In the year 1846, when the coun-
try gentlemen of England were deserted by their natural
friends, and were derided by their opponents, if they did not
play false to their opinions in the hour of trial, it was because
they were convinced by reason and by argument that in
maintaining protection they were not doing so simply for
their own benefit, but were maintaining a system which in
their consciences they believed was for the best interest of all
classes.—( Hear, hear.) It was that which prevented their
changing their opinions and their principles.—(Hear.) It
was that which supported them in their trial—it was that
which supported them against the leading men, the most
talented men, of both sides of the House; and now, in the
year 1849, when those principles had received the sanction of
time and experience, they were not likely to abandon them
in consequence of any taunt that might come from any
quarter uhatever ; but they would rather read in that fact
the knowledge that the Right Hon. Gentleman had of the
weakness of the cause he was endeavouring to support, and
that the prophecies which his Hon. Friend made at the close
of his most eloquent speech would very shortly be ful-
filled.—(Loud cheers.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Sir, I should be wanting in
respect to the honourable Gentleman who has made this
motion, and to his supporters, if I were not to state
some at least of the grounds upon which I think myself
justified in resisting this motion. I should say
however, that so far as the conduct of the Government
is concerned in the present state of affairs, I should other-
wise have rested satisfied with the speech of my Right Hon.
Friend the Chancellor of Exchequer.—(Hear.) I must say.
also, that with regard to the general principles of the com-
mercial policy of the last seven years, it would be the height
of presumption in me to enter into a consideration of those
topics, or to attempt to defend those principles after the
able, and, as I think, unanswerable speech of my Right
lion. Friend.--(Cheers.) But, Sir, we have before us the
Hon. Gentleman's motion, asking that the present Ministry
should be displaced, and that a new Ministry should be
formed on the ground of the restoration of protection. The
lion. Gentleman quoted at the end of his speech an eloquent
passage from Cicero, in which that orator declares that he
saw no end to concession except in the death of the re-
public. The Hon. Gentleman seems to have thought, how-
ever, that Cicero was wanting in resources, and that, if he
had thought of a motion on the state of the nation—
(Laughter)—some remedy might have been found for such
a state of disease; because the Hon. Gentleman, after an
Iliad of woes—after telling us of the unfortunate state of
every class of Englishmen—after telling us that, as far as lie
could learn, the state of the country was one of suffering,
without hope; as dreadful a state almost as that which '
Dante describes as the state of the condemned spirits—the
Hon. Gentleman proposed this motion on the state of the
nation, saying that it would displace the Government, but
hardly giving us a hint of what those measures--were by
which at length this hope, which does not now exist,
was suddenly to be revived.—(Hear, hear.) However, we have
got some further light upon it to-night ; for the Right Hon.
Gentleman near him, the future Chancellor of the Exchequer
(Mr. Herries)—(A laugh)—rushing rather precipitately, and
with juvenile ardour, into the question, before he has
accepted the seals of office, and before he is entitled to bring
forward the measures of his Government, has already given
notice that he means to propose a moderate fixed duty upon
corn.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) We have, then, the
statement of what it is the lion. Gentleman proposes, and
what is to be the result it this motion is carried.—( Hear.)
Now, Sir, I must take notice of one or two statements of
the Hon. Gentleman. lie produced an official return with
respect to the increase of poor-rates, and lie said that that
return alone would justify him in asking the House, to
agree to Isis motion. I must say that, I think, he conics
rather late with that convincing reason for his motion.
That return is a return of the expenses under the
poor-law, ending Lady-day, 1848 ; and, therefore,
comprising three quarters of the year 1847, and only
one quarter of the year 1848.—(Hear, hear.) Well, in a
year which was unfortunately distinguished by the calamity
of a great famine in Ireland; by a very great want of food
in this country; by a commercial convulsion, and by other
disastrous circumstances, I think that, in a year like that,
these things might well account for the great increase of
poor-rates which took place in that year. But! should
hardly have thought that the lion. Gentleman would have
selected that as peculiarly the year of calamity, because:his
argument on that is, that a high price of corn is almost
synonymous with a happy condition of the agricultural
labourer, and the year 1847 was distinguished from almost
every year for the last twenty or five-and-twenty years as
being remarkable for the very high price of corn which pre-
vailed in that year. The very instance he quotes, instead of
being an argument in favour of, is almost a conclusive argu-
ment against his motion, because it shows the calamities
which are attendant on a high price of food.— (Hear, hear.)
And then he says, if you will go with me into a Committee
on the state of the nation, I will show you how to add to the
price of food, and how to get high prices again ! A more
complete fallacy in the argument, even in his own sense, can
hardly be conceived. But with respect to some later intelli-
gence, which is founded upon official returns, and which I
happen to have received from my Hon. Friend the Poor-
law Commissioner, I beg to inform the House that the
state of the country since that return to Lady-day, 1848,
was made, has shown an improvement in the condition
of those classes who are either maintained in the poor-
houses or obtain out-door relief from poor-law guardians.
Now those returns are not sent until they have been audited ;
and, therefore, this number of returns relates only to 106
unions, of which it appears that there has been a decreased
expenditure in eighty-seven,and an increase in only nineteen,
and of these nineteen about twelve only are purely agricul-
tural unions. So that, as far as those returns go, we have
every reason to think that there is an improvement, and not
a falling off in_ the condition of the agricultural labourer.
Then, with respect to the expenditure. The expenditure of
these unions up to Lady-day 1848, was 860,8701., and up to
Lady-day, 1849, it was 799,151/., thus showing a diminution
in these 106 unions of 63,9691.—(11ear, hear.) So that by
taking somewhat later intelligence than that of the lion.
Gentleman, I am able in some respect to throw a more cheer-
ing light:upon those circumstances which lie appearse to think
so so very dark and desponding. With regard to the
have stated the general numbers; but with respect
those
well
a i n
s
of the agricultural counties, I will read the m
which the returns from the unions silo decreaseanato some
es of s
a
an increase; and those counties are Bedford, Bucks, Devon
Dorset,Essex,
Lincoln,
Gloucester, Huntingdon,Norfolk,
Northampton, Somerset, Southampton, Suffolk, Sussex, and
Wilts, almost all of them being agricultural counties,
and any of them remarkable for being those counties in
which poor relief has been carried to the greatest extent.
But I will take the unions in one county only, and, giving a
return which is still later than those I have already quoted,
I will state to the House, with regard to six lawns in

the county of Bedford, what le the nun-Sher 'or 'pinions ie.
ceiving in-eoor relief, and what is the expense of out-
door relief. In the midsummer quarter of 18-18 the
number of persons receiving in-door relief in those
six unions was 1,007, whilst in the corresponding
quarter of 1849 it was 901. The expense of out-
door relief for the same quarter in 1318 was 532/., and iu
1849, 543/, so that, so far from the state of the country
having become worse, as the Hon. Gentleman supposes, it
has, according to the latest official returns that we have
received, been improved.— (Hear, hear.) Now, I do
not mean by this to say that there is not very
considerable distress in some agricultural counties.—
(Hear, hear.) I do not deny that that is the
fact ; but I think those who beard the speech of the
Hon. Gentleman, and whose memories carry them back to
that period, will;remember that in the year 1836, to which
he refers, and in various other years, we have been asked
to appoint agricultural Committees.—( Hear, hear)—in con-
sequence of the number of petitions relating to agricultural
distress • and that those petitions were constantly founded
upon the very low prices of corn, and the statement that,
with those prices for corn, it was utterly impossible for the
farmer to remunerate himself for his outlay. So that it
cannot be said that the present distress is the consequence
of the introduction of free trade by the abolition of the
corn-law.—( Hear, hear.) But, Sir, I can easily understand
that there may be a period at which it is advisable to im-
pose a moderate duty upon foreign corn.—(Hear, hear,
from the Opposition benches.) And, e ir, I have no hesi-
tation in saying that I think that, proved as the principles
of free trade—undoubted as are the principles laid down by
Adam Smith—yet that when a nation has been for some
time living under laws which induce men to expect a
higher price than articles will naturally fetch, it may then
be wise to make a change gradually, to depart from
your high and excessive protection, and to give a
moderate fixed duty upon corn, as a means of at once
enabling the people of this country to obtain their
corn cheaper, and at the same time making the
transition less abrupt for the agricultural interest than it
would otherwise be. (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.)
But was no such proposition ever made ?—(Cheers from
the Ministerial benches.) Is the proposal of a moderate
fixed duty thought of by the Right lion. Gentleman the
Member for Stamford for the first time ?—( Hear, hear.) And
in what way was that proposition received ?—(Hear, hear.)
Why, when it would have been a wise proposition—when
the people of this country were asking for a change in the
corn-law, and would have conceded a fixed duty generously
priceand s poofn tfaono edr
gsal
neouy—rawl the wouldpe
people
oncee
n f haveha lowered
country,
andth e
-a,ntoit
would have enabled the agriculturists to forth
ose
further
further changes which the laws of economical
science would
finally have required—l say, when it might have been, and,
as I believe, would have been a wise change, then the
most
violent, the most clamorous, and the most pertinacious
opposition was raised.—( Hear, hear.) But now, when the
corn-laws have been utterly abolished—when the people of
this country have the satisfaction of knowing that no law in-
terposes in the way of their obtaining the articles of their sus.
tenance at the cheapest price at which commerce, and trade,
and agriculture can produce them—when they are contented
with the Legislature, because the Legislature has conferred
upon them that benefit, and removed all the trammels to
that trade—when it would be utterly unwise—when it would
be almost madness to attempt the imposition of a duty upon
corn—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches)—that is the
time at which the Right Hon. Gentleman brings forward a
proposition which was treated with scorn at a former period.
—(Hears hear.) But I think it is a singular thing that,
having asked the two great interests, the agricultural inte-
rest and the West Indian colonial interest, to agree to a
duty of Bs. upon corn and 12s. upon foreign sugar, and that
proposal not having been accepted on the part of those who
pride themselves on being Protectionists in this House, who
wish to restore protection, I do think it singular that I should
have heard in the year 1843 a proposition fur a temporary
duty of 10s. per cwt. upon sugar, and in the year 1849 have
seen a petition presented, and a notice given of a motion for
a moderate fixed duty upon corn.—(Cheers.) Although they
have adopted propositions very much resembling those
which I made in former days, in my opinion they have not
exactly suited those propositions to the circumstances of
the case.—(Hear, hear.) They knew perfectly well that at
the former period these propositions would have been re-
ceived and carried into effect if they had consented to them,
by a great majority, nay, almost unanimously. But nothing
would induce them then to listen to those propositions. Now,
I must say I think there is scarcely a chance of their suc-
cess. And when their success would, as I believe, be far
more fatal to their political influence than the utter rejection
of their proposition, that is the time and that is the period
in which they think it wise and statesmanlike to make this
proposition to the House.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I have stated
that, with regard to the agricultural interest, and especially
with regard to that return on which the Hon. Gentleman
relies, there are well-founded reasons, supported by returns of
a later date, fcr believing that better prospects are opening
for the labouring classes. Now, with respect to the manu-
facturing interests. The Hon. Gentleman quoted some
returns for the first five months of the year. Since that
time there have been presented to the House an account
of the exports for the five months ending in June of the
present year, including the cotton manufactures, the linen
manufactures, the silk manufactures, and the woollen manu-
factures; and these are the results :—The export of cotton
manufactures and yarn for the first five months of 1848
amounted, in round numbers, to 8,766,0e0/.; in 1849, to
10,113,0001.—(Hear, hear.) The export of linen manufac-
tures and yarn, in 1848, amounted to 1,373,0001., and in
1849, to 1,583,0001. The export of silk manufactures, in
1848, was 184,0001., and in 1849, notwithstanding the cir-
cumstances which have been adverted to, it amounted to
232,0001. The export of woollen manufactures and yarn,
which, in 1848, was 2,274,0001., in the year 1849 was
2,695,000/. ; showing a very considerable increase in each of
those great articles of our manufactures.—(Loud cheers.)
The Noble Lord opposite accounts for any increase that may
have taken place by stating that the demand at home has
fallen off so much that the manufactures have nothing to
do but to send their goods abroad.—(Laughter.) Certainly,
the explanation is convenient. But I think it would hardly
be just, year after year, to be lamenting over the increase of
our export of manufactures, and saying "Here is an increase
of 3,000,0001. or 4,000,00)/.; how dreadfully bad the home
market must be !”—(Loughter.) if there is a considerable
increase in the export of our manufactures it shows that
those manufactures are in a better state than they were in at
the commencement of the year 1818, and that some progress
has been made towards a more flourishing condition ; and
that improvement, as I believe, is confirmed by all private
accounts received from the various parts of the country, and
by the official letters of the various persons employed in the
different branches of the administration in the chief seats of
our manufactures.--(Hear.) It appears, then, with regard
to the agricultural interest—although certain portions of that
interest are depressed—that a reduction has taken place in
the number of persons seeking relief from the poor-rates;
and the accounts relative to the manufacturing interest
show a considerable revival of demand, and an increased
activity in the main branches of that manufacture.—( Hear,
hear.) So that I think we are not justified in holding that
desponding tone in which the Honourable Gentleman
thought proper to indulge on this most important subject.—
(Hear, hear.) Sir, there is another point to which I wish to
call the attention f the House (although at this late hour I
do not wish to go into detail), and that is the very great
increase of consumption that has taken place in some of the
main articles used by the people of this country. Between
the years 1842 and 1848 there was an increase in the con-
sumption of coffee of 30 per cent., of sugar 60 per cent., of
tea 24 per cent., of cocoa 30 per cent., of currants 93 per
cent., of raisins 22 per cent., and of cotton 35 per cent. So
that we have a consumption of those articles which are in
general use among all classes of the people of this country far
exceeding any increase in the amount of population.—( Hear.)
Sir, there is another point to which I wish to direct attention,
because I think it applies not only to the motion of the Hon.
G. ntleman who takes such a gloomy view of affairs, but like-
wise to the language of the Hon. Member for Montrose, which
would lead to the conclusion that the condition of the people
is continually becoming worse, and that the necessaries of
life are more and more difficult to attain. The point to
which I allude has reference to the great change which has
taken place in the price of various articles of consumption.
In the year 1818 the price of wheat was 935., in 1828 it was
605., in 1338 it was 645. 7d., and in le4B it was 50s. 6d. I
will now mention the prices of some of those colonial articles
to which I have just averted, of course taking into account the
diminution of duty which has been applied to many of those
articles. In the year 1818 the price of coffee was 12/. ; in 1828,
sia 7e. ; in 1838, 71. 6s. ; in 1848, 5/. 17s. In 1818 the price
of tea was 6s. ; in 1828, ss. ; in 1838, 4s. 3d. ; and in 1848,
3s. lt,4d. In 1818 the price of rice was 535.; in IS2B, 365. ;
in 1838, 345.; in 1848, 16s. I will now take the raw ma-
terials of our manufactures. The price of cotton wool in
1811 was le. 6d. ; in 1828, 7d. ; in 1838, 7d.; and in 1848,
414 d. Flax, 70s. to 325:, and Spanish wool from 6s. 6d. to
Is. 10d. Similar reductions had taken place of late years in
the price of leather. It will hardly be said that there could
be these great reductions in the price of the chief articles of
consumption without there being an increase in the comforts
of the people.—;Hear.) And when the Hon. Gentleman and
others say that there is a smaller amount in taxation, I, for
one, consider that that which the House would naturally
look to would be whether the people had theorojzmoseganf
articles of general consumption in greater as sugar, youg
they had before. Now, taking such an article
may iind that the dutyhas not been recovering to the same
but'f you findpeople cart
obtain ; the n
degree after its
obtain now 300,000 tons of sugar for the same sum which
they formerly paid for 200,000 tons, then that is a proof that
they have greater means of enjoyment. The revenue in such
a case may suffer, but the people would have greater means
of enjoyment. After the speech of my Right Honourable
Friend, I do not like, especially at this late hour, to go into
details. There were, however, one or two questions referred
to by the Hon. Gentleman opposite upon which my Right
Hon. Friend did not touch, and which did not come within
the scope of his observations. Generally speaking, with re-
gard to the Ministry of which I am the -head, I may say that
whatever faults may be found with our way of meeting the
difficulties we have had to encounter, that these difficulties
have been very great, and that we have not flinched from
meeting them with the best remedies which we cauld apply.
With regard to some of them it has been acknowledged that
we were not mistaken in our remedies. Take,
for instance, the year 1847—a year of great commercial
convulsions, and when great doubts were entertained
whether our currency would stand the shock .to which it was
then exposed. We took measures on our own responsibility
which were almost unanimously approved of, and which were
not attended with the evil consequences predicted by the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. I remember the Right Hon.
Gentleman accompanying a deputation to me on the subject,
and, when I mentioned to him as a matter of consolation
that gold was coming into the bank, rebuking me for my
presumption, and telling me that if I imagined the gold
would remain in the bank, I was mistaken, for that it would
all go out of the country in a few days. We, nevertheless,
adhered to our measure ; and I am happy to say that the
measure was successful; and that, too, without any danger
to tire to the
currency, and in a period of great difficulty
commercial classes. I remember some merchants of London
despondency
were rather surprised when I told themalt feltnothetime either to
in the crisis—that I had no grounds at
I believed that the
feel or express any despondencyr.ehants
of London would
en-
terprise and capital of the me
d the measures we thought'
We apple
carry them through.
best—we saw no reason for despondency, and WQ declared
we lied none.—(Hear.)
Again, Sir, in the course of last year,
shortly after thought
it
the convulsions on the Continent, we
it necessary to take means of preserving the peace of the
metropolis,
• threatened as it was by some evil-disposed men
incited by hopes of plunder. We did so, relying on the
great body of tire inhabitants of the metropolis. We believed
them firmly attached to the Constitution under which we live
and to the Sovereign whose subjects they are.—(Hear, hear.)
We were not deceived in that confidence, • •
and it will always
be a matter of pride to me that I was one of the Government
on that occasion.—(llear, hear.) Another subject to which
the lion. Gentleman adverted was the domestic famine in
Ireland. I am far from saying that the treasures we took
stopped or averted the famine. I believe it would have been
impossible to do so, and that any system of public workasuch
as that suggested would have been utterly unavailing.
But I do not think it is a just reproach on the Government for
natives of Ireland, or representatives of the people of Ireland,
to accuse them of having been lavish in their exhortations
to this House to exert its energies and to grant its means to
alleviate the disasters of their country.—(Hear, hear.) With
respect to the other dangers in Ireland, they were met by
I the Lord-Lieutenant, when energy saved Ireland (rem a

very great ealarnlty.—(lear, hear.) Now 0114 the dateeet
is past, some may be disposed to laugh at it, but it was
a very extensive conspiracy, and if it had not been at once
checked, it might have seriously endangered the peace of
the country. There was another considerable danger during
the three years of our government, and which I trust we
have shown no want of courage in meeting. The Honour-
able Gentleman in bringing forward his motion made some
observations with respect to the foreign policy of the coun-
try. On that subject the Honourable Gentleman, instead
of stating, far less proving, any crime or negligence en our
part, did but repeat the common, and rather vulgar, ac-
ctuation made against my Noble Friend, that we had
everywhere been stirring up insurrection and favouring
revolutions. It is utterly baseless and unfounded.—(Hear,
hear, and cheers.) There is no ground whatever for such
an accusation.—(Hear, hear.) But the Governments of
the Continent, not attending, I suppose, to the feelings of the
people about them—not having provided by due measures—
by due provision for concession of rights to their subjects_.
were astonished at the revolutions which broke out last year,
and not conceiving how they could otherwise happen, sup-
posed some foreign intrigue at the root of them all. There
can be nothing more unfounded. Ido not wish to conceal
my gneon,scrlaolng b politicaleen“
Civil andthi esreligionsan d
wishes.herty allM yoSn'e'arxtihmlies e
world."—(Hear, hear.) Such is my opinion; but I know at
the same time that we should not have been justified in in-
terfering without some overwhelming necessity, and there-
fore, our course has been during the whole period to keep
aloof from the greater part of these transactions—to pre-
serve tranquillity and quiet at home—ready to use our in-
fluence and to tender tee language of advice to foreign
countries, but without otherwise interfering in the contests
that have taken place among them.—(llear, hear.) There
is another part of our policy which has beeen attacked. It
is said, that after the change of Government in France,
we have thought it right to preserve the most friendly
relations with that country. I must say, that I believe
the preservation of these friendly relations has enabled the
various Governments of France to maintain a tone of mo-
deration which they would have found it difficult to do if
they had suspected that England was at all hostile to them.
—( Hear, hear.) I believe I have often said that the inti-
mate and friendly union of France and England tends to the
peace, not only of Europe,but of the world.— (Cheering.)
Although we have not concurred in every step taken by the
French Government, I have no reason to suppose their inten-
tions to be otherwise than honourable and pacific towards
this country. And I can perceive no symptoms of aggres-
sion on their part or any desire to violate the treaties by
which the peace of Europe is preserved.—(Hear, hear.)
With respect to the motion of the Hon. Gentleman, he has
the apparent advantage of saying that if we look back for
three years we would not now find the same peace abroad
that then existed—that we have some important interests
suffering at home—and that we have had a great famine,
from which numbers in Ireland are suffering even at this
moment extreme distress. But when the Hon. Gentleman
proceeds without any reason to attribute blame on these
points to the Government, I must claim the indulgence of the
House while I state why I cannot agree with him, To lay
the blame upon the Government for a great calamity which,
by the visitation of Divine Providence, has fallen upon this
empire, would be a great injustice, but a calamity which he
trusted and hoped was but the commencement of a better
time, as the ancient poet had described it--
" Jupiter have dixit, tempestatesque serenro
Riserunt omnes visu Joyis omnipotentis."
That scourge had been sent upon us to work out, perhaps,
an ultimate object. We ought by no means to despair, but
continue to support that system of policy which was a wise
and a good one; if we continued to afford that good example
which we had hitherto done, he hoped the blessing of
the Almighty would rest on our labours; and what-
ever might be our measures he trusted our piety, our ener-
gies, and our virtues would meet their reward. (The Noble
Lord, who was not distinctly heard at the conclusion in the
gallery, sat down amid the cheering of the House.)
Mr. MUNTZ wished to say, with reference to what the
Right Iloncurable Baronet had said in allusion to his speech,
that he had only read a certain letter from one of his consti-
tuents, which had been subsequently corroborated by facts.
What he had quoted also from a paper was no puff, as he
afterwards learned, and he had since received a further con-
firmation of the truth of the statement he had made. The
Right Hon. Baronet should go to Birmingham to see the
state of the labourers there.—(Hear, hear.) His opinion was
that the state of the working classes was considerably re-
duced, their wages were lowered, and the prices of manufac-
tured goods much less than formerly. He regretted that
he could not congratulate the Chancellor of the Exchequer
either on the Budget that he had brought forward, or the
present state of the revenue.—(Bear from the Opposition.)
Mr. DISRAELI rose to reply, and said when he brought
that motion under the notice of the House, he had
that which might be called the economical portion of it
upon the best and most authentic returns furnished by the
officers of Government. The Noble Lord who had just
spoken had said that the documents which he had quoted
were not of a very recent date. He would ask, then, who
could have supposed that reports of the Poor-law Commis-
sioners only laid on the table of that House sixteen
months ago by the Government would be considered as
such ? (Hear, hear.) That was the best and the only
perfect evidence to which he could refer. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had appealed to the example of the
savings banks as a test of the condition of the people; but it
would have been more candid had he given the House a
general statement of their condition drawn from the official
sources at his disposal, than by citing a single instance or a
single town.—(llear, hear.) lie found the same unsatisfac-
tory result in the reference of the Right Hon. Gentleman
to the manufacturing distress. They ought to have had
some information also as to the agricultural unions. He had
been expecting that the President of the Poor-law Board
would have taken some part in the debate. He would have
been a most valuable ally to the Government—a double-
barrelled gun—(Hear and laughter)—for besides enlighten-
ing them on the state of pauperism, he could have given
them some information as to the state of Hull.—(Hear.)
But instead of this, after an interval of two days, unferta-
nately not occupied in discussing this questton, the First
Minister of the Crown came forward in a statistical cha-
racter—one in which he shone to much less advantage than
in many others which he illustrated by the splendour of his
genius—and showed that of sixteen agricultural unions,
only twelve were in a state of increased depression. He
presumed the Noble Lord recollected that there were 652
unions in England. When the Right Hon. Chancellor of
the Exchequer commenced this reply to his (Mr. Disraeli's)
speech, themachinery of the debate appeared not to move
rightly. He rose, after an interval, and appeared to be look-
ing for an antagonist—(A laugh )—At last he fixed his eyes
on him, and said, " Now I shall proceed to answer the
speeches”—made when ? at Drury-lane—(Hear, hear, and
laughter). Now, if the Right Hon. Gentleman wished to
answer speeches made at Drury-lane, he should himself ap-
pear on those boards. Very distinguished characters on
both sides of the House had done so, and he believed that
a Chancellor of the Exchequer if properly advertised, would
draw.—( A laugh.) The Right Hon. Gentleman then addressed
himself to business, and proceeded to prove that this country
was more prosperous in 1848 than 1847. Well, he admitted
that even at this moment we were in a better position than
in 1847. But 1847 bad nothing to do with the argument.
He had taken 1845 as the test of the conditiou of the
country before the changes, and contrasted that with their
present state. He had not alluded to 1847, and the Right
Hon. Gentleman ought to be the last man to complain.
Every man had his disagreeable subjects, which his Mende
would be unwilling to obtrude upon him unnecessarily.—
(Hear, and laughter.) Why, the Right Mon. Gentleman
should expect him to do anything so gratuitously un-
charitable as to recall attention to the time when the Cabi-
net of which he was a member acting under his advice,
ruined most of the principal bankers, merchants, and traders
of the city of London, he was at a loss to conjecture.
--(Hear, hear.) He had certainly omitted that year, but
he certainly did not think that the Government then,
any more than now, had any great claim to public con-
fidence and approbation.—( Hear, hear.) The Chancellor
of the Exchequer had proceeded to notice some argu-
ments of his as to exports, and after a great many desul-
tory observations he wound up his criticism by honestly
and candidly stating that he really could not understand it
—(Hear, hear)—although the Right Hon. Baronet the
Blember for Tamworth had told them that the thing was old
and familiar enough, and that he (Mr. Disraeli), in fact, had
done nothing more than invoke the manes of Alderman
Waithman. Finally, the Right Hon. Gentleman delivered
himself of:a quantity of statistics—(Laughter)—though
what point they were intended to place before the House, or
in what way they bore on the question under discussion, he
had been unable to ascertain. He could only compare the
to
a process
conjuror te
No whatul
would
foras seen
three sometimes at
together hours
mouth a quantity of red tare.—(Great laughter.) He now
hheerrudrraalw fairs,out of
fhheins
observa-
tions which lie had made. The Right II Baronet,
he had alluded, said he was going tointro-
ducecame to a speech which dealt considerably with
on theto
whose speech
Members to follow—namely, to apply mended other Hon.
him-
self in the most dispassionate and frank manner, and without
a new sys.ternrooraf
tdmenbattoe,t:vehipchosihtieonpatratkiceunlaurlpy recom-
mended
the slightest exaggeration
author of the motion. But what did he do ? He, too, went
intoinm eadni aatr. egl
mt oe
nllt raugr.
aeinl
satn
the
hle'll'eate abstract.— —(Laughter.)
principlesaugh ter .)
of
protected
ec
twented
trade, and at last arrived at the glove trade.—(Laughter.)
He then ventured to remind the Right Hon. Baronet of his
(Mr. Disraeli's) existence, not from any arrogance, but be-
cause he feared that those mysterious influences which circu-
lated what took place in that House, might convey the im-
pression that this process of ratiocination had been addressed
to him. Ile then proceeded to deal with the Honourable
Member for Birmingham, who had just vindicated him-
self. Again he reminded the Right Honourable Baronet
of the difficult position in 'which he should be placed,
unless the Right Honourable Baronet deigned to notice
him, and he then fulfilled his promise, and' attacked
in detail his (Mr. Disraeli's) heresies respecting ex-
ports, and told him that if he had enjoyed the advan-
tage of mixing in public life at the time Alderman Waith-
man lived, lie would have found that his (Mr. Disraeli's)
was no new theory. Now, he had a great respect for the
memory of the alderman, who he believed was
ea distin-
guished
instance, at
at the amounts of the official exports, for _
liberal. His position was very simple.. H
down, for
130,000,000 e, and saw the declared value set
the depreciation
instance, at 50,000,0001., and lie measuredabour,by
the difference.
notthe think
10)ked
in value as the reward of English
absurd, probably, never was
Anything more mean
denied,
more absurd,
that it had any affinity
tmlesraelLan Haes dtide
promulgated. He den
Commissioners need heed much the
that the Poor-law
prices of wheat, &c. Then with re-
criticism of the I
which he had dwelt •
years on in reference to
with the system
zpirgobptodlniddn.byGehni
their statementto Professor Jones's opinion,
ference what he (Mr. Dis-
raeli) had stated was that if the farmer imported 25
per cent., it must lead to an equivalent diminution in his
produce. The Right Honourable Gentleman and the
consecutive
of
Noble Lord had each been extremely eloquent on the
notice of motion which had been given -
een given by his Right
Honourable Friend Mr. llerries), as if that
questionhad
any bearing on the present subject. The Hon. Gentleman
concluded a long address by reflecting on the course which
had been adopted by the Right Honourable Baronet the
Member for Tamworth, and calling upon the House to sup-
port his motion.

The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion ... 156
Against it ... ... 296
Majority in favour of the Government —l4O
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Three o'clock.

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