The Sun.
London, England, 1838-06-02 00:00:00

And unless they are the compa.

Is there a Clonmel in

Scotland ?—(Cheers.) I do not mention this in any invidious light.
Ido not bring the case of Clonniel or any similar case forward as any
reflection upon Ireland. The- faults were the faults of legiolation.
Those evils were the evils of the law, which left open oppor.
tunities and incentives to abuse; and if the people availed themselves

of those opportunities, if they committed those abuses to which the law
tempted them, it is the law that should ho blamed. It is because i ant
aware of the existence of those abases—it is because they have been

proved by indisputable evidence--,that we are determined for the secu-

rity of good government, and not for that alone, but for the interests of

morality and the effectual security of the hanchise, that I propose this
mode of testing the qualification. The Noble Lord opposite has quoted
Scotland in reference to this Bill. What, I will ask, is the case of
Scotland under the present law ? Has the Noble Lord shown that great

anxiety to diffuse among the population of towns in Scotland-that

gentral possession of franchise which would induce every of them to
say to themselves they all enjoyed a share in the local government
Has he given so extensive a franchise as that ? By no means. In a

population of 3,300, how many are there entitled to vote in corporate
affairs ? 169.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He has given merely 169 elec..
tors to 3,300 persons! This does not look very like a great

extension of the franchise. In another town—Jedburgh—where
there is a population of 4,350, how many electors arc there
to be found ? No more than 15G. In Peterhead, with a population
of 5,112 inhabitants, there is a similar paucity of electors as compared
with the population; the number of electors in the town of Peterhead,
with a population of 5,112, is no more than 173. Here is no very

striking instance of an inclination to enlarge and widely diffuse the
franchise.—(llear, hear.) If in the case of Scotland I were inclined
to influence the national feelings of that country—lf I wished to rouse
" • -

and excite the Scottish people—l could instance those towns and say,
" This is an insult to Scotland."—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) But I
would not do so. I would not, for it would not be just so to do, ad-.
duce every distinction which may be noticed in legislating for two
countries ai-,a proof that there was not a feeling of impartial justice tow
wards each.—(Hear.) Those distinctions are often necessary from the
separate and distinct circumstances connected,with those countries, and
are no proof that insult or degradation is meant to either.—(Hear, hear. )
It has been objected to my proposition that it will have the effect, if
carried, of postponing the progress of the Bill until the Poor Law
Bill shall have passed. This objection could have been very easily
obviated. If the Noble Lord had said that it was necessary to have

some mode of obtaining a test with reference to the poor ratOt.and that '
he had requested the postponement of the Bill, I should not ,have any
objection that this Bill should be postponed until after the pasng of
the Poor Law Bill. However, I think this a favourable and a •pro:,er
time to introduce this test. I take it for granted that the Poor-law wil ]be:

passed in sufficient time not to delay it. It is necessary to remember that
the rates will be assessed before the workhouses are built, and previously
to its general operation. I should not be inclined to press forward this
matter too hastily if it were deemed as inconvenient. lam of

opinion that the feelings of the people should be looked at with respect.
When great and important interests are not to be protected, I . should
have the greatest satisfaction in deferring to the popular feeling
in Ireland as well as in England.—(" Hear hear," and cheers.)
However, I think it calculated to benefit all that are concerned

in the Bill to have a proper test—such as I propose •v it is impe-
rative upon the Government to secure the qualification by a test, and
I can see none so effective as the poor rate.—(Hear, hear.) It is im-
portant to the interests of good local government and to the principle of
the Bill that some such test should be in existence ; but it is, if pos-
sible, of greater importance that this test should be in force from the
beginning. Commence badly, and it will be impossible to reform after-
wards.—(Hear, hear.) Open the door to fraud, and it is folly not to
imagine that the temptation will not be too strong for the people to re-
sist. They will say, we will secure our corporation rights now, whilst
we have the power in our own hands. Let us establish the franchise

upon a sound basis at first, if we wish to secure it. It is in the first in:
stance that the evils attending the admission of improperly qualified per-
sons can be avoided. My object in proposing this criterion, Is not for the
purpose of postponing the Bill : it is solely with a view.to attain a satis-
factory mode of ascertaining the qualification, and thus protecting the
franchise. So far from having a view towards postponement in naming
the Poor.rate as a criterion, if the Noble Lord says that the Poor.law
Bill will not pass, I shall consider upon the propriety of ascertaining
and proposing another test of qualification, which will ensure security.—
(Loud cheers.) In proposing this test I was obliged to proceed upon the
assumption that the Poor Law Bill would pass. But I shall adhere to
this proposition, and although I have been charged with a wish to post.
pone the Bill until the Poor Law Bill shall have passed, I shall not be
prevented from taking the sense of the House upon it. There are other
considerations connected with this subject which I do not wish to bring
forward at present, and which, if they were brought forward, would not
have a tendency to increase those feelings which will be best calculated
to aid the operation and support the principle of the Bill. I shall only •
say that my sole object is to secure not a nominal but a real bona fide 101.
franchise, which would be supported by a satisfactory test, and .
I look
upon this not as an obstacle to the Bill, but a means of rendering pram
tically beneficial, and a concession upon my part.--(Cheers.) A charge
has been made against us that we wish to render the corporations a
monopoly, to the exclusion, as far as possible, of Roman Catho-
lics. Now with the fact before us that there are 16,000 101. houses
in the city of Dublin, and when w e are told of the vast increase
of wealth amongst the Roman Catholics, I cannot anticipate any great •
danger to their interests or any overwhelming preponderance to the Pro.
testant interests from the 101. franchise. In Cork, in Limerick, in
Waterford, and the other large towns, the case is precisely similar to
that of Dublin, and the danger to the Roman Catholics just as great.