The Sun.
London, England, 1807-04-10 00:00:00

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essra- where Ministers and theaSoliereign disagree:—
The Severeign, has then no advisers, for when Ti-i‘a
misters with tile King, -he' e'rnnot loola
,upon them "es his advisers:--a.le !eed- the. aetation`
of such .en'• ib qqation as r,r'Nef,i-:l'reserit 'Could
alieVe goal consequence-----it say went to-'a-vio-•
lation of order; by forcing the introdaaiiiii • of-
the •SoVerelgO's Havre, and arraigninghi conduct at
the harfol that House. Besides, the question au it- •
-self can have no consequence, unless it be followed •
ue by others. Was it intended to address the Cron
to remove the present Minitry; and- to take back
th-Ose who had so. recently been displaced ?-This was
a length to which he -was not prepared- to goT;be
canse he did not see what it led to. It gave 'him
-nruch'pairt to ditietain opinion with meu_ with whom
be had been .happy to aft : •but he must disOarge
• what he conceived to be .his -duty, however dis-
agreeable the task.—He should therefore vote for
the Order of the Day.
Sir P. ItiURRAY eKpressed himself in very in-
dignant language at the manner in which a Noble
Friend of his (Lord Melville) laadlaitenalladed to
- byi a Learned Gentleman. That LeaanediGentleman
talked much of rancour and animosities; -ibit•was
there any thing more rancorous than the manner in
which the. late Altniaistrationa-had endeavoured•to
oppress and persecute that Noble Lord. • 7i,
Mr. IPHII'BR EA D. contended that from thearno
ment the Sovereign placed the Crown. on his head,
till the demise of the Crown, some one-was respon-
sible for all the acts •of the Crown. No interval
could intervene where there. was, no responsibility.
As the King never dies, so is he never With-
out advisers--unless that were a true and 'funda-
mental principle of the Constitution, all he had
ever read of it was a „dream—the -Monerchyaceaa-
ed' to be limited, and that. House was a non-
entity. He .anal his friends were accused of bring-
ing the concluel pf the Severeign- beforeatheigar
of. that • House; The• charge: was false ajlit:•VOS
these who urged those new. and fatal doatines. • who,
arraigned the concha& of the King, -04:44 hirn
naked end exposed, without the assistanceof adarciale.
Mr. •BATIIIIRST explained. acse
Mr '1?-03E•contended; that-although it,wasgene-
rally true, that'the King .could
_no :Wrong, eyet
there. were ctages when the King eaedawiehout,any
advisers. The pledge, -of which so much had been
said, was called for while the late Ministers were.in
office 1 who then advised le? Not themselves cer-
tainly ; neither was.lt their successors, since they had
not yet been appointed.
Lord 110 WICK -aaid;riotWithstanding the impa:
tience of the• House to come to the question, he hoped
lie might be indulged for a ehort time, while he
touched upon 'a subject which. affected him so per-
sonally. Nothing was more unfounded than theasser-
Con, that the. influence of Government had been ex-
erted to crush Lord Melville. He defiectany 'than
to bring a single instance of the exertion of such
influence 3 it will be made to. appear, on. the con,
trary, that so far from any Government influence
being employed in that manner, two Noble Lords,
Members of that Government, had scarcely ever et-
tended thartrial, or voted on any of the
.chargers.
As tothe question, it was now.confessed that a pledge
had been demanded of the late Ministers ; but who
advised the proposing of the pledge was not ac-
knowledged. But there was no aa of the Crown for
which there must,not be a reseonsible adviser. Who
then were. responsible for the advising the pledge ?
Those who gave it etie6t : the New. Ministers : the
men who contrived to poison the Royal. Mind, Yes,
it was now well knewn, and flieSeaawere'timea4o
speak plain. was Lad El&I, who l'iadan,an-
dience of his Majesty, at which, Withott( ex-
aptly knowing what had pasSed, it ' was easy
to see that then it was that the subjed of the pledge
'was started. Lord Hawkesbury .had also. an audi-
ence of his Majesty at that conjuncture,` and that
'Noble Lord, in conjun&ion with Lord-Eldon, were
_employed by his Majesty to consult with the Duke
of Pertianci in • fram,ine a new Adreiniitration.—
These Noble Lords are then the responsible -persons
for they bave given effeCt to the demand of the pledge,
The Noble Lord next came to the last part of the
question, respecting Ireland. The Right Honoi.4-
able Gentleman must recolleet that the Pledge.not
only restrained them from giving advice respeCting
that particular measure, but any measure cone
retied with it. There were other measures. con-
sleeted with the state of Ireland, which -had been
the- contemplation of his Majesty's Government,
Which such a pledge would prevent theta frotrabringe
ipg forward, He had no objection to state that
one respeCting tithes, wasin a cOnsiderehle degree
of forwardness, and though not necessarily con-
:let-led with the Catholic Questions- the outay
that had- been raised against that Bill . prevented
him from-bringing it forward,- lest a sleailar'alarm
should be exqted against this
.rneasere, ,as anAat-
ta'ek upon the -Church stabl;slmaent. Nothipg,
he awas convinced, would. tend so much loathe
tranquillity and good Government of Ireland as
a modification of the system and--mode of collelit-
ins tithes • Every Gentleman who' had spoken
this night -had admitted, that they could not have.
given the pledge without a violation of the most so-
lismn engagements. It was necesseay, therefore; to
cies:late the 'truisni of the Motion, because Ws Majes-
tyl late Ministers had been dismissed far refusing
to giro that pledge. If the statement of the Learned
Doctor \vas correct; that three-fourths of the Irish-
tsien-ih the Navy were Protestants, it proved thatathe
Cathoiiaa• were ere Vented by impolitic laws from en--
tering: Redid- not impute any bad motives tai anyone,
lain he was Sorry -the Right -Hon. Gentleman had
lent himself to any proceedings out of doors, which
had ter °hie& to excite am:Vitale= the public mind.
That Right Hen, Gentleman had' not •objeCtechin
lapel to a much larger measure than the Bill on the
w Ilia • was• then. proposed by, an :Hon. Gen-
t eman (Mr.. Pitt) \ now ,no more,. as an attack upon
-the Church Establishment. He 'would ask the No-
ble Lord :(Castiereagli), 'and -tile Right Honourable
Gentlemen: (Mr. Canning); . whether they had
elieogeal the opinions' they then 'held, or how
they- could sit silent when the Bill on the table was
oiled ao attack upon the Church Establishment ? It
had been said, that the motion was only intended
to turn out one Ministry and get in another.- if
the motion should be agreed to, as he trusted it 1.441 d
by a great majority, it Wonlal. be followed by otliers;
end it they should have the effect of turning out art
Aaltninistration, formed- on principles dangerous to
the Constitution, he should not think the worse of
then). When be saw the materials of which the Ada
ministeatioo was composed, he et tild not place cue-