The Sun.
London, England, 1836-05-04 00:00:00

II ISII TITHES,

I.lr. F. SHAW begged to know when the Irish Tithe Bill
would be brought forward.

Lord NIOIthETII knew as little as any other Lion. Mem-
ber %%hen it would be brought forward.

POOR RATES.
The NOBLE Lent) then moved the Order of the Day for the
second reading of the Poor Rate Bill.

(I.ErT SITTING.)

DUBLIN ELECTION COMMITTEE.
(THIS DAY.)

The CommtTTEr. met this morning at the usual hour.
Mr. JOY resumed his argument in reply to Mr. THESSIGEIt
on the bribery cases, contending that the discrepancies in the
evidence, if any, were so trifling that they could not warrant
the Committee in rejecting, it altogether. The Learned Gen-
tleman in an able argument, maintained that there was good
proof of bribery against the petitioners.
The CemmiTTLE, after an hour's deliberation, resolved,
•' That it is not proved in evidence that the vote of John
'Keating, was given under any promise of payment direct or
implied, and that his name must therefore'remain on the poll."
" That the votes of Matthew Madden and Gei,ge Osborne
vre.re given under a corrupt expectation, h^ll out by John
Knagzi, ar'l that their names he therefore struck off the poll."
" That although Patrick Finucane attrisutes corrupt ir-
ducementi to Knaggs, \Vhitty, and Citnsellor Oulton, his
evidence contains so much prevaricatic;& end contradiction that
the Committee can place little reliplx, on it, but that as it is
sufficiently proved that he voted under a corrupt expectation,
and afterward.; accepted of
ent his vote must be struck cif
the poll."
The evi,li,cce relatio to the' vote of Neilson ag then
read, and the room
cleared for a decision
porter left. our rc.

IY:PERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. MA I- 3,
MARINE INSURANCES.

An HON. MEMBER presented a petition, praying for the re-
duction, of the duty on Marine Insurances.
Ye. SHARMAN CRAWFORD presented a petition
frcrn John Carrigan, of Drogheda. stating grievances he has
suffered by distresses for the levy of tithe, and praying for the
total extinction of all assessment for the Established Church
levied off those who dissent from it; a petition from James
Tlnrney, of Kilmoon, in the county of Meath, praying that
all duty imposed on foreign corn shall be given as a bounty to
the home grower, in proportion to the quantity of corn grown
and sold by
him ; and a petition from the bankers and mer-
chants °I. Belfast, praying for certain alterations in the Bank-
ruptcy Act, and that the law of Ireland may be assimilated to
that of England.
. _

FACTORIES CHILDREN. •
Mr. BROTIIE RT ON presented a petition from the Cotton
Spinners of Preston, praying the House to pass a measure pre-
venting children under 13 years of age working more than ten
hours each day.

On the motion cst BOWRINC, the Crediton Improve-
ment ro:!d ft third tine an :I passed.
Mr. 0S WA 1,1) brought up the report of the Committee on
the Toil-erns.; Gas and Water Bill.

Mr. HODGES

airported the poi.Lr of the

woavers of a place in Lanarkshire co‘elaining of distress., and

priying re!ief.
Colouel THOM iSON presented a petition from Ow mer-
chews of Hull in favour of the Manchester and Leeds RAway.
Mr. CLAY presented a petition from 500 seamen of Now-
castic-upon-Tyne, praying for an inquiry into the cause of so
m;:ny shipwrecks ; and one from a place in the county of Mid-
dlesex, pra:,ing foe the total repeal of the duty upon News-
papers, and the release of all those now in prison for s'Aling
unstamped publications.
A Message front the House of Lords brought up several
Bllls agreed to by their Lorilshios.
MIDLAND COUNTIES RAILWAY.

.1 certain
4.ne conduct of I.llls
~nty, them to go into t 1::; merits
...oway Bill. Ile complained of this
part of the Committee, which, at the time of
11;5511'7; t..e resolution, consisted only of nine Members.
After ft .fetir words from Mr. GISDOUNE, the rtition watt tall
On the table.
STAMP DUTIES UPON NBWBPAPERS.

Mr. CART WRI G lIT presented a petition fry-•
inhabitants of Northampton, complaining ‘st
Railway Committee in not allow;-
-;f the North Midland P
col-,111,2t ou thp

Mr. GOULI3 LT RN rose to pre.atall it petition from certain
individuals, the printers and Walishers of some of the Daily
Newspapers, having the largest circulation, upon the subitaq
the Stamp Duties urn Newspapers. If any credit. ,;\M.(lue to
the statements that had gone forth to the puctiN he to what was
likely to take place on this subject, tlst entlemen were en-
titled to credit for the statement" ialltained in the petition which
10 hal the honour to Ill'esent to that House.---( lt!ar,
hear.) If there way any one class of the er!taihunity who
was less deserting of being called motterttsts than another,
it was those who were engacTi tit the conduct of the
Daily Press. To other clasea,a pit authors there was an exOtn.
;,tie privilege for a limited time, vested in them I.iy the Acts
which regulate copyright. To individuals e-,llneeted with the
Daily Press there was no protection; atet However great might
be the expen;:iture of their 9.01%11 in the purchase of infer-
matie'n--ltowever exteniire, their labours might be, they acre
not protected from hating the results of their labour and
talent pirated lay others. If this argument were not enough,
to relieve thorn from the charge of being monopolist., he
thought he might fairly say those individuals were no more
liable to the charge than were those who, having employed
their capital and their talents in a particular branch of busi-
ness, had succeeded by their superiority and industry in sur-
passing all their Contemporaries. The object of the peti.
tion was to represent to the House the injurious effect
of a clause which the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (the
Chancellor Of the Exchetiner) proposed to introduce Into
the Bill for regulating the Stamp Duties. By that Bill, if a
Newspaper exceeded a certain dimension it would be subjected
to double duty—and of this the parties 'complained. They
complained of it because, as they stated in their petition, it
was partial in its opertttion. They complained of it further
because it would tit them with great less, a.d because
It would be detrimental to them in a financial point of view,
and injurious to the general interests of those connected
with Newspapers. It was necessary, in order to understand
the prayer of the petition, that the House should
know the state of the law on this particular subject.
Many years ago it was the law that a Newspaper should pay
duty according to the size of the paper, and by a statute
passed in the year 1804 the size of a Newspaper was limited to
32 inches by 22. But as the taste for information
gained ground, and as the state of society gave persons an in-
terest in a greater variety of subjects, it was found to
be exceedingly difficult for the Newspaper proprietors
to satisfy their customers, by confining themselves within the
limits of the law prescribed ; and experiments were made,
first, by allowing a second edition to be published at half the
price of the original paper ; and afterwards Mr. Huskisson,
in the year 1825, brought in a Bill, which met with the
concurrence of the House, to take off all restrictions on the
size of the papers, and to leave it to the discretion of every
individual to print on what sized paper he pleased.--( Hear.)
In consequence of that, and the increased demand for literary
productions, the proprietors of Newspapers embarked their
capital in the adaptation of machinery, and each, according to
his fancy, or the taste of his readers, adapted his paper to
what he considered the most desirable size. The Herald, the
Standard, and the Morning Post, adopted the plan of
publishing a double sheet. The Chronicle took another line,
and instead of tile double sheet, extended the width of its
sheet very considerably. Now, it so happened, that on the
clause introduced into the present Bill, the size adopted was
that of the Chronicle, The House would not suppose that
he meant to insinuate that his Right Hon. Friend intended to
favour the views of that paper; but the accidental circumstance
of his having framed the clause so as to suit the size of that
paper, had given the petitioners just ground of com-
plaint. They could not now conform to the altered size
without making a change in their machinery, which would be
attended with a very considerable expense.—( Hear, hear.)
He believed his Right Hon. Friend had since determined to
alter the size of the paper, and to estimate it by its superficial
contents in inches-1,530 inches to form the Newspaper.
Many of the parties who were aggrieved, would by that plan
be relieved ; but as there were others who would not,he trusted
the House would take their case into consideration, for their
case was in no degree remedied, although the number of com-
plainants might be diminished. He should be prepared—(Loud
cries of " Chair, chair.")
The SPEAKER said that so long as the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman was stating the substance of the petition for the pur-
pose of explaining the grievance complained of, he was per-
fectly in order, but that he could not enter into a discussion of
the matter in detail.—(llear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entreated
the House to permit the Right Hon. Gentleman to give the
fullest explanation relative to the petition,_ as the allega-
tions involved an imputation on the character of a public
officer. The Right Hon. Gentleman should have the fullest

power of stating all the facts, and he (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) claimed the full power of replying,
so as not to allow statements of that description to
continue uncontradicted. He hoped he should be able to satisfy
even his Right Hon. Friend himself that the inferences he had
drawn were totally at variance with the whole of his conduct.

The SPEAKER said his object in interrupting the Hon.
Gentleman was to call his attention to the rule which had been
laid down. Redid not intend to prevent him from explaining any
portion of the petition which he conceived might require ex-
planation,

Mr. GOULBURN was only about to shew that the regu-
lation complained of by the petitioners was partial in its ope-
ration, and that it would be highly inexpedient to put any limi-
tation on the size of Newspapers. The petitioners stated that
the double duty would operate on them as a penalty, and pre-
vent the circulation of these papers. He had merely stated
the leading features of .the petitioners' complaint, and abstained
from offering any comment, seeing the feeling of the House was
opposed to it. He hoped, however, they would not suppose,
because he had not entered into the discussion, that, he had no
arguments to cffer.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would
take the liberty of drawing the attention of the House to the
facts stated in the petition, and to the inferences which had
been drawn from the facts so stated. Personally he had
nothing to complain of in any observation of his Right Hon.
Friend but he would take it upon himself to satisfy the House
that the charges which had been made were the most foul and
scandalous misrepresentations that had ever been. uttered
against the character of a public man.—(hear, hear, hear.)
lie would not addrosa himself for a verdict to those gentlemen
Who agreed with him in politics—he would for. that time, and
for that time only, place himself ill the hands of the Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite( Mr. Goulhurn), and abide by the verdict which
he should pronounce, after hearing the facts of the case.
The House would allow him to say that be was not
responsible for any statement which appeared of inter-
views which took place in his office—( Cheers)--that was
a mattrx which was in the discretion of Gentlemen. He did'
not complain of the practice which had grown up, but he con-
sidered it to be a most dangerous practice, and one very de-
trimental to the public service. (Cheers.) These reports
were now put forth to the world by Gentlemen who did not
even take a note of the proceedings; they were not inspected
by the parties interested ; but were put firth in such a man.
ner as left it impossible to contradict the statements, or to
explain -them.—(Cheers.) He 'made no complaint of the
matter. He said that every class of persons had a right of
access to a Government office on fitting occasions 1 but those
interviews ought to be carried on with confidence between
bath parties, and if the opinion of the head of an office were
wanted, it ought to be • demands bf him in writing.—
( Cheers.) Let him be brand by his own writinn',
but do not chain him dawn to those vinauthorked and
very frequent reports. He (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) did not complain except upon principle, At the
same time he disclaimed all participation in thou` reports ; lie
avowed—for he intended to have i u tetilit,l.t<illments—he avowed
that at one of those intervicktt sAZited that one of his ob-
jections—his s
sheets was, that it, w4hi,
cO'fOttion—to allowing those double
continue a monopoly. He did not
care where rt mullOply
him he would de- i-1 When
he fixed the. small" d,44,
oppose a Monopoly anywhere. N
"Isted—whether it was for or against
tirS apostage duty u on Newsaers,
he did
not F0...1 tilt when he phad to ccnvey a p
double sheet of
NgtTlpaper, be should not look at it in the same light as a
titible sheet of a letter.

Mr. GOUL BURN—If the Hon. Gentleman went into
the question of the Post-office charges, he (Mr. C.) must
have an opportunity of replying.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The
Right Hon. Gentleman would have that "full opportunity. He
had been charged with acts of the most gross and criminal nature.
It had been imputed to him, that while framing a public mca-
. sure, he had been actuated by political views, and had made
his public duties subservient to his party animosities. There-
fore he was ,bound -to say, not arguing the question bat
the principle be adopted, with reference to the double stamp,
that the double sheet, or the charge rather upon it, was; what he
had stated. He now came to the next step. It was stated that he
had drawn a fine most ingeniously which profited the Morning
Chronicle, and most ungenerously injured the interests of the
other papers which his Rt. Hon. Friend had adverted to. Now,
he would tell the House distinctly, and upon his honour, that
before he had: stated what he had done . with respect to
the intentions of the Government, as to the duty On a
single sheet, he had told the officers of the Stamp-office to
measure the largest single sheet—and why should he take the
largest single sheet ? Why, because it would comprehend the
less; and he could assure the House, upon his honour, that at
the time he stated that, he did not know what paper it would
affect, or what it would not. Well, but that was not all ;
hc would go a step further in order to show the principle on
which he had acted. The next communication be received
ainu Iron the Proprietors of Newspapers themselves ; he had.
been in communication with those who represented the peti-
*ioners, awl also in constant commtuication with the
Committee of the Proprietors of Newspapers, and he never
was more astonished in his life—all the arrangements
having been made at their own suggestions—(Great cheer-
ing)—they knowing every step that had, been taken, than at