The Sun.
London, England, 1836-08-19 00:00:00

TILE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, AUGUST 19 1836.

Third, who might be well called, as he was generallyacalled,
the lather of his people, the first act of that truly patriotic
King was to make judges independent both of Government
power and popular flattery, by securing to them their offices '
for life : and it remained for the Whigs and the Noble
Baron opposite, who was the very concentration of Whio-
gery and Liberalism, to strike down the outwork of British
liberty, the• independence and freedom of the administrators
of justice. Could it be believed in that House, if their
Lordships had not seen and heard it ? Could it be believed
in the House of Commons ? Could it be believed by that
population on whose capricious will the Noble Baron and
his colleagues rested for temporary support? Could it be
believed by any one, that the most venerated, the most use-
ful of our institutions was to be struck down by the Whigs,
who in ancient times professed themselves the guardians of
liberty, and that the first blow should be given by the
Noble Baron, who was the acknowledged concentration
of ail the Whaagism and liberality of the nation ?
(Laughter and cheers.) If the fact went abroad, no one
would believe it ; yet it was so. Base and place-hunt-
ing Whiggery was the first lever applied to upset and
overthrow the old and noble edifice of our Constitution.
No man was more diligent than the Noble Lord in de-
fending the clause in the Bill—a clause which their Lord-
ships had wisely rejected—for upsetting the independence of
the judges. He had passed through only some of these
measures, and, by reference to the list, he could prove the
utter fallacy and fraudulency of the course that the pre-
sent Ministers had adopted with respect to the measures
which they or their partisans announced, but never meant
to carry into execution. Such was the manner in which
they had redeemed the pledges given from the mouth of
his Majesty at the commencement of the session. There
was only one more measure of this description to which he
would advert, and that was the Bill with respect to chari-
table trustees. That Bill they rejected, and they rejected
it on account of the vicious character of the principle. By
that Bill the election of the trustees was so contrived as to
render them of necessity political partisans ; and they
were of opinion—and who could entertain a contrary opi-
nion ?—that nothing could be more vicious than that trus-
tees of charities should act upon principles of that descrip-
tion. Nay, more. They objected upon another ground,
a ground no less solid than the one to which he bad just
referred, and it was this—that a large proportion of the
charities to which the Bill applied were charities founded
--and declared to be so by the very deeds of foundation--
for` the benefit of members of the Established Church.
That Bill provided for the management of the charities,
and pointed out the mode in which the trustees were to
• be elected ; and by its provisions it placed in a great
' variety of instances the management of these charities
in the hands of Dissenters. These persons might in-
dividually be respectable and honourable men, but he
thought their Lordships and the country would be of opinion
that nothing would be more unwise—nothing more incon-
sistent with a due desire to promote the interests of the Esta-
blished Church, than that charities of this description—
particularly charities relating to school foundations—should
be administered by the class of persons to which he referred.
But more than this, it had been over and over again pub-
licly declared and avowed that the object was to remodel
these schools—to run directly counter to the will of the
founder—and to form them on a plan more consonant to
' their own views. He had now run through a few of these
' measures, and stated the grounds and the principles upon
which they (the Opposition) proceeded—or at least he might
say he had stated the grounds and principles which had
actuated him in the course he had pursued ; and when the
Noble Baron appealed to the country he (Lord Lynd-
hurst) thanked him, and joined him in his appeal. They
were there a part and one of the great branches of the
Council of the nation—they represented the great inte-
rests of the people, and it was their duty faithfully to dis-
charge.the trusts reposed in them, and they certainly con-
sidered themselves accountable for the manner in which
' they discharged those trusts. He was ready further—
he was sure the Noble Lords around him were—to
meet the challenge of the Noble Baron. They were
ready to appeal to the country—they had not slumbered at
their post, neither had they listened to the allurements of
indolence or pleasure. They had discharged their duties
faithfully and honestly, and if they had acted otherwise
they must . have forgotten their high station, and the
important trusts reposed in them. There were other
eases to which he should beg to refer by way of retro-
spect to the measures already mentioned. A Bill was
brought into that House by a most Reverend Prelate, on a
subject of great delicacy and importance—a Bill for regu-
lating pluralities in the Church. Many persons bad 'di-
rected their attention to the subject, and many who had
so directed their attention had failed in the attempt. The
Bid introduced by the Right Rev. Prelate was by far the
best on the subject. It was supported by that House,
and it was taken up by the Ministers of the Crown, as it
' was their duty to alo, in the other House of Parliament.
. The moment, however arrived when the Government was
told they must proceed no further. A party supporting
his Majesty's Ministers interposed, and said they were not
willing to countenance the proceeding. Some struggle, as
appeared from the votes, was for a time made ; but at last
his Majesty's Government, having before advocated and
supported the measure, one of so much importance, so es-
sential to the country and the inteAsts of the Established
Church—yielded to the dictation to which he referred.
• There was another measure—a Bill framed under the direc-
tion of the Government to carry into effect the fourth re-
' port of the Church Commission—a Commission and report
to which the members of the Cabinet were parties—a re-
report signed by the Noble Viscount, by the President of
the Council, by the leader in the other House of Parlia-
ment, add by several other members of the Cabinet—it
was 'in fact a most important and valuable measure of
Church regulation and reform. That Bill was brought
into the other House of Parliament, and hardly had
it been broil& in when a mutiny took place in the
camp of the Noble Lords opposite. It became ne-
cessary to suspend the proceedings, and it became nea
eesaary to hold a conference on the subject, somewhere in
the neighboeraped of Downing-street and Whitehell—a
conference, as he oaderatood, not carried on in that low
tone and well-bred whisper which sometimes marked the
aonforances between the House of Lords and the House of
Commons, Dnt what was the result of that conference ?
' The Ministers were tall that they must abandon that mea-
sure, and proceed no further to carry it into effect. Nay,
room They were almost obliged to give way in other
measures fouewled upon the same Commission, though not
on the same report, velathy to the regulation of the sees in
England. The result of the c4I6TPIiCe was, that the itna
portaat measure in question was abandoned, And thus the
Ministers ware dictated to by a section of their supporters
in the other House.—a(neer, hear.) But was this all ? A
taw days ago there was a Bill 04 their Lordships' table en-
titled,, ii do Act for the Registration of Voteri," Now,
what was the h4aery of that Bill ? It originated in 4
thotunittee appointed by the Government, over which a
member a the Government presided, After a long and
anxious inquiry and mature deliberation, it came to certain
resolutions on the suaaasa, and in conformity with those
resoioaens the Bill was drawn up. It was brought in by
Lord J. itusaall, by the Attorney-General, and the Solici-
tor-General. It eattaiply was an excellent measure, and
664.? which, with one or two exceptions, ought to have
passed into a law. But again, what was the result ? That
class of persooa tp which lie had referred opposed the
progress of the Bill ; they proceeded to remodel it ; and
they introduced clauses altesiog the right of voting as
provided fee it} the Reform Bill. Resistance was for a time
made, but the Miniaters were compelled to abandon the
gill: and in a mutilated foam it reached that House. He
(Lord imlhorst) thought that he wit; entitling himself to
the gratitude a the Noble Viscount in the Game he pur-
rued. His Noble Friend, with his vigorous and manly
mind, directed his attention to the Bill ; lie analysed every
.clause, and tae result was that he got rid of those inn's).
brances which had Loam engrafted upon it, and restored to
'ts original purity the text of the Noble Viscount. Did
this meet wish the gratitude of the Noble Viscount ? No.
The Noble Viseamit commenced an attack, and poured
iris sarcastic observations own his Noble Friend ; and, the
Bill, a:a:ea:ding to the expressioa or .the Noble Baron, was
mutilated. What then took place? In a whisper across
the table the Noble Viareunt said he abandoned the mails
sure s and why was it ? Beeimee he dreaded the resent-
ment and itsilivation of a class of his sappoatera—( Hear,
hear.) Here was a Devernment ! Was there ever sop;
gllch a Government as that aemposed of the Noble Lords
oppoal ?a—(llear, hear.) In that Lianse they were to-
tally ineffieleot, Auld could not effect any thing. Thpy (the
Opposition) were called pppn, and obliged, to discharge
the duties of the Government. They were obliged to go
througa tag toil and labour necessary to perfeet the mea-
sures sent up from the other House—measures which the
Ministers advised and propase4, and which they were com-
pelled tie isbandon, he repeated, at the alietation of a sec-
tion of their sup-phrtm. Gentlemen! eminent statasmeri !
distinguished persons who, oadar these circumstanaps, eon-
&vended still to hold the reins of boverementaastrampled
upon as ti.eaa ;erg in the manner be had described.—(Hcor, .
dhaerakr.)iiiiS:rmoLiche4 as 4 0,N9n1
r 4 f-stir policy. Was that policy
relieved by the splendour of their t;tireiga policy ? Was the
side of Downing-Strad rdpieFeil 4 the
brilliant glory of tiiii (4141 .MOY.a§ pad ,c)0 Widp and •
extensive for him (Lord Lyndhurs4 to ipi.er qppn pp the
present occasion, and he should imitate the prudence and re:
serve oiaias Noble Duke (Wellington), and he would leave
it to each inMilduai ,Zeeta who heard him, and who observed
what passed in this country and on aim pzn,tinent of Europe,
1
to say whether the measures and lirap6 of his Majesay's
Get;arnMeaat ore calculated to ensure the eeintdencet tad
respect of surrimaminaaj.9p7--whethei they were' calcu-
lated to induce them to court' "Or' to salmi our arieive;* to
view us with friendship and regard or with "feelliigS of
aversion and dislike. But there was a point upon which
he must say 4 ;ipicrju word, and that was upon the principle'

of intervention which the Government had adopted, con-
trary"-tO the principles they formerly. proposed, and which.
-with respect to one country, had cost England, at a moderate
`estimate, between one -and two millions sterling. What
bad been obtained in exchange,? Disappointment, defeat,
and disgrace. This policy, moreover, had compromised the
dignity of the Sovereign and tarnished the reputation and
character of the people.—(Hear, hear.) It was impos-
sible to look to Spain and forget that it was the field of our
most, glorious achievements. In that country our armies,
led on by the <Ain of the Noble Duke (Wellington), gained
victory after victory, and thus raised the military glory of
the country to an eminence to which it huh never before
reached. Surely it would seem as if some malignant-demon
had interfered to suggest a mode of tarnishing that glory
by the sending out of that miserable buccaneering expedi-
tion, under the patronage of the Ministers of the Crown,
which had rendered -us odious to the Spanish people, and
ridiculous and contemptible at home. The Noble Viscount
being unable to carry his measures through either House
of Parliament had but one course to pursue. But these
were antiquated notions. Fastidious delicacy formed no
part of the character of the Noble Viscount ; and, in spite
of the mutinous and sullen character of his crew, he ap-
peared determined to stick to the vessel as long as a single
plank remained afloat. He (Lord Lyndhurst) admired the
Noble Viscount's spirit ; but he must offer him a word of
advice. Let him get his vessel into still water as soon as
possible.

fortiter occupy
Portum."
Let him look right and left,

" au sine funibus

Vix durare carina3
Possint imperiosius
iEquor?"
There was something, after all, in the efforts and exertions
of the Noble Viscount, not quite unworthy of admiration.
It was impossible not to admire a brave man struggling
amidst the storms of fate ; but his (Lord Lyndhurst's) con-
solation and hope of confidence was that the Noble Vis-
count, whatever his disposition might be, had not sufficient
strength, although his locks were not yet shorn, to pull
down the pillars of that building.—(Hear.) The Noble
and Learned Lord then read his motion, which was as fol-
lows For a return of the number of public Bills origi-
nated in this House during the present session, distinguish-
ing how many passed with and how many without amend-
ments; and how many were withdrawn and rejected, either
here or in the House of Commons, distinguishing the
number in each House ; and, also, a return of the num-
ber of private Bills originated during the present session,
in the. House of Commons, distinguishing how many passed
with, and how many without amendments ; and how
many were withdrawn, or rejected, either by the House
of Commons or this House, distinguishing the number in
each House."

Lord HOLLAND—My Lords, an accidental expres-
sion of mine being the peg upon which to hang this dis-
cussion, I feel it necessary to address your Lordships ; and
the Noble and Learned Lord having, in a subsequent part
of his speech, given a great portion of his observations to
the part I lately took with respect to a Bill before this
House, I feel personally called upon to say a few words to
your Lordships. Indeed, in another part of the Noble
and Learned Lord's speech he has reflected, and personally,
upon me. With respect to the motion itself, I do not think
I shall trouble your Lordships at any great length upon it.
I confess I was not prepared for the observations now de-
livered by the Noble and Learned Lord. I certainly was
not prepared for that which I must contend to be one of
the strongest proceedings I ever yet knew adopted. I cer-
tainly was not prepared for an oration like this, in which he
would boast of his exploits during the session. Now, though
I have been called by the Noble and Learned Lord some-
, thing like a sophist, I shall not, I assure you, be the
lEschines who will try to take off the edge of his speech.
I will not say that this is irregular ; it certainly is not ille-
, gal—l will not seek for any far-fetched phrase to desig-
nate a proceeding which I feel to be sophistical in itself ;
but I will tell the Noble Lord in plain Sand homely Eng-
glish (and I hope he will excuse me for using such a phrase)
that I regard his as a " queer" proceeding—(Laughter)--
, in point of taste and of logic. I think first in point of taste,
because I am sure if any expression escaped from me per-
, sonal to the Noble and Learned Lord, or to others, I would
be at the time it escaped, or now, most ready to recall it.
I am ready to give credit to Noble Lords that in rejecting
measures they, in their consciences, believe they were fol-
lowing what is the right course in so doing. But, my
Lords, I always thought until now that when any Noble
Lord felt, or a majority of your Lordships felt, called upon
in your consciences and by your feelings to take such view
of a subject as to reject the.petitions and the prayers of the
people of this country, signified by the legal representatives,
that that, at least,.was a duty painful to you to perform, in-
stead of its being, as it has now been made, a subject for
triumph and exultation.—(Hear, and cheers from Ministe-
rial Peers.) This, however, it is that the Noble'and Learned
Lord boasts of—it is upon this he founds his claim for fa-
vour—this is the, ground for his 'exultation. Now, this
seems to me to be rather strange in point of taste, because
I should have thought that as to the progeny of our sister
House of Parliament, when we were obliged to dismiss them
from our doors, we should at least do so with a sigh, instead
of doing as the Noble and Learned Lord has done, adding
insult, contempt, and contumely to the rejection of their
prayer.—(Cheers.) In point of logic, I must say that I do
not see any very great merit in rejecting measures, I shall
not, as some have objected to it, use the word mutilation of
measures ; but it seems that when applied to the Commons
the Noble and Learned Lord had no objection to speak of
the "mutilations" of the other House of 'Parliament; and
this he did with regard to other measures in which the
House of Commons exercised a discretion at variance with
the opinion of the Noble and Learned Lord.—(Hear,
hear.) At the beginning of the Session I ventured to com-
pare the Noble and Learned Lord to Timotheus ; but at
present, (and I hope it may not .giVe offence) I must own
that I made a mistake—he has become the Alexander, and
he has become so pleased with the sound of his own exploits
that he has gratified us with the speech we have just heard—
" Pleased with the sound, the King grew vain;
Fought all his battles o'er again ;
And thrice he routed all his foes; and thrice ho slew the
slain ;"
(Laughter.) But for what purpose is all this done ? For
the purpose of explaining away why it is that all the effarla
of the Noble and Learned Lord have been of no avail—
my Noble Colleagues have been sustained by what
. they regard to be the opinion of the majority of the House
of Commons. Thu Noble and Learned Lord seems to
think Oilcan antiquated notion, is it an antiquated nation
that a Government having the confidence of the people,
should regulate their conduct so as to deserve that confi-
dence ? Is this a new doctrine, or is it an antiquated
opinion ? At one time it did not appear to be so very an-
tiquated to the Noble and Learned Lord.—(Hear.) The
Noble and Learned Lord says that my Noble Friend con-
sults a section of those who support him in the other House
at' Parliament. My Noble Friend has the confidence of
the House of Commons, and of the people who sent them
there.—(Cheers.) I for one, then, shall advise him to ad-
here to his present station ; and whatever may be the dif-
fidence felt, whatever the distrust expressed, whatever the
sarcasms resorted to by others, I am sure they will always
reconcile my Noble Friend to their endurance as long as
be enjoys the confidence of the House of Commons ; fur
while he has that confidence, lie can defy, even if it be ne-
cessary, the contempt and the distrust entertained else-
where.--(Hear.) The time was when even the Noble and
Learned Lord would have admitted that in such a notion as
this there was some force. But what is the advantage of
all that has been done by the • Noble and Learned Lord—
of all that has been rejected by him ? I remember to have
heard of a learned gentleman, and who was much more
known by his wit . than logic—this was the biographer of'
-Johnson—and he was so elated at being admitted into the
club of which Dr. Johnson was a meniber, that lie was very
much in the habit of boasting and•exalting himself on this
point, and, enlarging upon the great merits of the club he
used this figure of speech, which was •not a little known for
its singularity, that " such was the great wisdom and talents
of the club that those blackballed as members would make
the best society in all Europe."—(Laughter.) So it is in
the opinion of the Noble and Learned Lord, This is, he
thinks, an excellent hraneh or the Legislature for blank-
balling Bills, or, by altering and rejecting so many Bills, the
Noble and Learned Lord appeared to suppose that all they
had refused to sanetior, would form an excellent
code for any
other senatorial body to adopt.--( Hear; and laughter.) Now,
my Lords, we are to recollect that these Bills, for which such
merit is now assumed in their being rejected, were, even ac-
cording to the Noble and Learned Lord's own showing, not
all bad fills, The Noble and LeartiodLord has admitted us to
some of them, that as to the general objects they had in view
it was desirable, if not absolutely necessary, that they ought
to be
.attained ; and yet what have Noble Lords done ? In
O'OF "d"4"tif4 IMPITIVP 114 VP 4PttiOl 4io
B. 114 iit DV 1410114il? 4.4411e4 Of 1'4'0.-4 spay
have occurred in the discharge of an imperious duty ; but
it is one, that Noble Lords ought to consider painful and
unpleasant to reflect upon.—(Hear, hear.) . I cannot really
follow, the Neble and Learned Lord through the enumera-
tlion J cannot reel them all tr.). my.. 44 Rpp O'prci 4 fl pot t, 020 !lot: 1,11:1N'. of yot4
1-?raships aid very'eerect altePtl§ll: cqrt4ir,i.bt
anxious that you shouldpass it ; and yet, I must slay, in
the recapitulation of the Bills a very large portion of the
Noble and Learned Lord's speech was occupied by it ; that
Bill ig the Stannaries Bill. Upon my word—the Noble and
and Learned Lail must forgitie me for using the exin:b-stitiii
tas'inde, 1
must say that that part of it appeared to the to be ludicrous
and burlesque in Pie egrerne.—(Hear.) Your Lordships
would*SuptiCiselbait'fd'it.fotig time there had heeyi
held in Cornwall of which the Jude held his oftce during

good behaviour, and was removable by the Crown, and that
we, by some legerdemain, introchiced a Bill enacting that
he should hold office only during pleasure. So far, now,
is that from being the case, that we made the Judge more
independent than he had been heretofore. There is a
court in Cornwall of which the Judge holds office only
during pleasure, and is removable by the Duke of Cornwall.
I did not positively state its provisions, though I knew them
very well, when the Bill was under discussion. If I am
wrong, my Noble Friend opposite (Earl Falmouth) is able
to correct me ; but instead of making the Judge more
easily removed from his place, we made his place more cer-
tain. That Bill applied a great many restrictions upon his
removal, and it is necessary by it to have the concurrence of
the supreme authority before the Judge or Vice-Warden
can be removed. And yet, my Lords, it is upon this that
we have bad such beautiful declamation as to constitutional
principles, as if we did not know the common meaning of
constitutional principles. But, in connection with the Stan-
naries Bill, there was one insinuation by the Noble and
Learned Lord, which, if founded in truth, was somewhat
uncourteous. The Noble Lord says that I talked in a
low—in so exceedingly low a tone, that I could not be
heard below the bar. Now, my Lords, I do not know
whether the situation which the Noble and Learned Lord
selects is for the purpose of being beard—(Laughter)--at
least, the Noble and Learned Lord appears to be aware,
that persons may, in seine places in this House, be heard to
more advantage than in others.—(Laughter.) I wish, my
Lords, I had the same command of my voice and of my
passions that he has. Such as I am, I am now known to
your Lordships for forty years, and I ask you whether
you ever knew of me arranging my voice very artt-
ficially, or with a view to be heard by this man and not to
be heard by that.---(Hear.) Mark, now, the inconsistency
of the Noble and Learned Lord. He describes me, he
compliments me, as the concentration of Whig liberty and
constitutional principles ; and when he ascribes to me, I
will not say Conservative principles—when he says that I
dropped my voice upon that occasion—the Noble- Lord,
who is so Conservative, who is such a stickler for liberty,
what did he do ? You would suppose from the compli-
ments he has paid to my Noble and Learned Friend's
(Lord Langdale's) great abilities in opposing that Bill, that
he at least had seconded him—that he had stood up for
the Judge—and yet not one word was said by the Noble
and Learned Lord on that occasion.—(Hear, hear, and
cheers.) He did not merely let his voice fall, but he did
not he not let a word be heard.—(Hear.) No ; he has
reserved it all for this occasion, to exalt the glory of this
House, and to show the dangers of attending to the
wishes of people of England. There was a time when the
people of England were not to be distinguished from
the House of Commons—the notion was repudiated
that any distinction could be made between them. It
is almost unnecessary to say, that it was the Tories that
would recognise no such distinction. " What !" they were
accustomed to say, " do you talk to us of the people of
England ? We have the House of Commons; in them
we recognise the people of England ; they are them."
What has happened since then ? That the people
of England speak a little more the voice of the people
of England.—(Hear.) Now it appears they are the sec-
tion of a party ; and the Noble and Learned Lord, with
that high degree of stern virtue that belongs to him, de-
clares that lie would feel himself degraded from the high
elevation of consistency that has always marked his inflexi-
ble nature as a statesman ; he who feels that he has never
changed his opinions ; he who never could bend before the
authority of the day—he it is who declares he would not
brook the interference of a majority of the House of Com-
mons ; that he would leave office ; that he would spurn it
with contempt, sooner than be governed by such cobblers
and low people.—(Hear, loud cheers, and laughter.) These
are the high notions that the Noble and Learned Lord has
of the duties of a statesman.—(Laughter.) I do not fol-
low the Noble and Learned Lord is his aspiring notions,
and for what good purpose could Idoso ? Since, however,
the Noble and Learned Lord has expressed his deep cora,
passion for the situation in which I and my caea nes are
placed, I hope the Noble and Learned Lord will think that I
do not take an improper liberty with him if I give to him a
little wholesome admonition, Evan admiring, as I sincerely
do, his abilities, and acknowledging the beauty and talent of
his speech, yet I cannot compliment him upon his judgment.
Ido not understand why he made such a speech—it has
always appeared to me to ho conceit to put ourselves in the
situation of others, and then say they ought to de '4O and so ;
but yet I cannot help thinking that the Noble and Learned
Lord does not appear to understand the situation in which
he is placed, or he would not have addressed us on a topic
which, if in his situation, I should rather have deprecated.
I certainly should not unnecessarily do so ; for it was not
necessary for him to say all ho has said.---(Hear.) In the
present feverish state of the public mind respeetiag the re-
lative positions of the House of Lords and the House of
Commons, I must say that I do not think it was wise or
prudent in the Noble and Learned Lord, thus unneeseaa-
rily, and without being forced to it by any pishlie-rocasure
of importance, to come down prepared with an elaborate
and deliberate attack upon the House of Commons, cou-
pled with a retrospective glance in justification of the con-
duct of this House in those points in which it has differed
from the other branch of the Legialat-eee. This is a course
of proceeding which I cannot -but deprecate. I have
always been ready to admit that the Noble Lord possessed
talents of a high degree, and was of no mean authority with
the nation, though the weight of that authority must, I sus-
pect, be somewhat diminished by such a course as he has
adopted this evening—conduct which is rather aggravated
than palliated by the high abilities which the Noble and
Learned Lord is known to possess, With regard to the ex-
pression of the word ti disgust," which the Noble and
Learned Lord finds fault in me for, I beg very briefly to
declare, that I did not mean that it should be taken in the
light the Noble and Learned Lord seemed to think, nor did
I wish that it should he felt so by him. But the Noble
and Learned Lord should be aware, and should admit, that
there are certain proceedings of this nature which are not
nearly so severely felt if done in one way, to what they
would be if accompanied by a different demonstration of
feeling, and done in a different manner. Though I may
regret the rejection of any porticular Bill which your Lord-
ships may have refused to pass, I regret wire particularly
the animus in which that was ;lone, the manner, and the
argurnents by which your Lordships' proceedings of this
kind him been accompanied. The number of Bills which
your Lordships have been the means of throwing out, and
the sort of hawk's eye with which you have pounced upon
them—pouncing, as it were, upon minor articles in their
eonstruetic,n, regardless of the great merit whieli pervaded
their general nature ; this is the course which I condemn,
and which I think no really wise senators would have''
adopted, With regard to subjects touched upon in the
latter part of the Noble and Learned Lord's stte4,ch, I do
not think that the Noble and Learned Lord has succeeded
in proving its relevancy or esaet connection with the
subject matter of the motion with which lie ceaohided
his address. In this part of his speech the Noble and
Learned Lord touched, very briefly, to be sure, upon the
foreign policy of the present Government. Now it may ho
very easy to turn up One's eyes, and say the honour of the
Crown is falling, the nation is brought into disgrace ; but I
would ask the Noble and Learned Lord to look at the
actual position of affairs ; lot him turn his eyes to the east
and to the west, where he will find, in the connection which
this country now holds there, ample proof that the weight
of authority and respect amongst nations which England
once, as he declares, possessed, is not entirely gone from
her.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord alluded
particularly to Spain—a melancholy subject I admit,
There are others, perhaps, in this House who may be able
to bestow praises upon the Noble Duke so intimately con-
nected by his former exploits with that unhappy country,
or bestow them with more discretion, with more nicety of
expression, than I am ; but I deny that there is any tote
who can more heartily utter the tribute of admiration so
justly due to him than myself. Now, what did the Noble
Duke do when he came into the Foreign-office sonic
months back ? Did he vary in any one point from the
policy adopted by his predecessors in office ? Did ho
attempt to alter in any one particular the position in which
he then found this country with regard to other Powers ?
In regard to Portugal, to he sure, I recollect that the Noble
Duke commented upon proceedings then in course, in ro.
foronoo to that country, and said that Portugal bad been
too much divided from this country alieady, and that there
must be ,no more division between them. I would ask the
Noble Duke and the House to compare the position of
Portugal with regard to this country, in the time or my
Lord Grey's Government, with its pres,ettt pwition. I may
be told, "Oh yes, but this was not all your doing." True,
it was not all our doing, but in every considerable point it
was our doing ; and exactly the same line of policy are we
now attempting to carry into effect with regard to Spain.
When we took office we were ,rid that if we kept peace for
three months, it vssetld be a matter of astonishment, Why,
INF IIAtT kitSiv kept peace for six years,-,4 llear, hear.) I
must say, that there ttpt:Wtat to 010 to be some pi oofs in
existeee that neither the intliience nor the interests of this
country have lost ground within the last two years. Tt,ere
is a strong desire on the part of all foreip powers to keep
peace with us ; and to be ;14
"the world is tran-
quil, and 'lye 119; appsehension of danger," is,, in Vily
opining, tl! tryo proof that our foreign Falley lies not been
e
entirely ittismat34Pds-s--s(ChCtlts,) I now to apologise
for Itaaimis occupied so much of the time of the House, and
for having said so much of myself ; but after what fell from
the Noble and Learned. Lord, in allusion to my, c-,so.ittet,
felt. that I. could not mot-Jet tbe waiter lo pass over
.tiatvatigs 1 si
" tor'
DHURST explained that in reference
what the Noble Baron had said in the count? speech
on the score of his (Lord Lyndh.ttryt 1, neglect of duty in
not hity;eits i4esi a'nuese part in the discussion
on' die ghnnatties Bill, the fact was this—that his Noble
and Learned Friend on the other side of the House havlua

made a very elaborate and learned speech upon ihe:sUbject,
and having been fillowed by his Noble and Learned Friend
near him, the subject appeared to him to be fully exhausted.
Lord HOLLAND did not think the explanation of the
Noble and Learned Lord quite conclusive on this point;
for if the Noble and Learned Lord had said all he had said
to-night on the subject of this Bill, when the Bill was going
into Committee on the report, or on the third reading--
which he was very glad the Noble and Learned Lord had not
done—yet if the Noble and Learned Lord had done so, 11
thought the Bill would have been thrown out, and the co
consequences of it averted.

Viscount MELBOURNE—It is impossible for me net
to admit, with my Noble Friend who has just sat do";
the great powers of eloquence possessed by the Noble and
Learned Lord opposite ; his dexterity in sarcasm, and his
clearness in argument, cannot be denied ; and if the Noble
and Learned Lord can be satisfied with a compliment con-
fined strictly to his abilities, I am ready to render that ho-
mage to him. But, my Lords, ability is not everythin3
propriety of conduct—the verccandiu—should also to
combined to make a great man and a statesman, and not 3
Man—Homo duni frontis, perditx audachr. The Noble
and Learned Lord has referred, in the course of his speech'
to many matters in history, and has quoted Shaspeare, and
quoted the particulars of a great. number or statesmeu °c
former times, to whom the Noble and Learned Lord is
pleased to say that I bear some resemblance. 1 bee' in re-
turn, to refer him to what was once said by the Earl
Bristol of another great statesman of former times (the
Earl of Strafford), to whom the Noble Lord might, I think,
be not inapplicably compared ; and of whom it was said
" The malignity of his practices was hugely aggravated
by his vast talents, whereof God had given him the use 161
the Devil the application;'—(Laughter.) It is impossible
to avoid remarking on this stange speech of the Noble and
Learned Lord, that it is itself full of strong invective ana
attack, and in the course of which he accuses me of maSejg
use of invective and attack, also, in the course of my au'
dresses to the House ; it is impossible, also, I think, le
avoid contrasting the impotence of the motion with which
the Noble and Learned Lord concluded, with the 'porn"
pour and threatening language with which that motion
was preluded. Would not the House, on hearing tne
speech of the Noble and Learned Lord, have been Pre"
pared to hear him conclude by moving an address to
the Crown, enTessive of want of confidence in the pr.e"
sent Ministers, with a call for their immediate d'e"
missal ?—(l hoar, hear.) The House might have expected t°
hear *Wetting little short of a criminal charge to wind U 1
A./.IA speech of the Noble and Learned Lord ; and after a 3
their expectations what must the House think of the Noble
Lord when he concludes his speech with a
miserable
motion far returns, which, from the miserable • detail'
entered upon by him in the course of his address, be
appears scarcely to stand in need of. The Noble and
Learned Lord then entered upon a long and laboured.,
defence of the way in which lie and his party had
OW
in referenee to various measures during the present Ses‘
sion. Now I cannot help thinking that the very trouble
the Noble and Learned. Lord seems to have taken 00
this score betrays a little uneasiness with regard to the
light in which this, their conduct, may be viewed by others'
-„.( Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord seems t°l
think that there is an advantage in having the last word'
but I apprehend, also, that in many cases the first weird
is a very great thing. Now we have have had the first
word already, and the application and effect of it are n(7
in course of taking place, so that I should not fear to go
trial before any jury in the country, even though' they he
heard the speech of the Noble and Learned Lord, and theta
that speech had been suffered to remain without answer an
without explanation in my defence.—(Cheers.) The Noble
Lord takes credit to himself and to his party for having be'
Laved with the greatest meekness and leniency towards leo
and my colleagues throughout the Session ; they baps
moved for no papers to embarrass the Government •,thvi
have brought on no votes of censure against us. '174%
let me ask, why was it that Noble Lords took up this Meet
and patient line of conduct? Was it because they were e°„,
willing to take upon themselves the government of the coon
try if the present Ministers were removed ? Or was it °i%
they approved of our measures, and were willing to retain if
in office ? But if they did not approve of our
measures---
they did not approve of the line of conduct we have been(
pursuing—why, let me ask, did they not make a motion et
censure upon us, but that they distrusted, in fact not, us, bud
their power in the country?—(Cheers.) The Noble en
Learned Lord boasts that he and his friends are ready ,
appeal to the people. Then, in Heaven's name, why de
they not do so ?—( Hear, from the Ministerial benches')
Why do they not take some steps towards an appeal
o
this kind, as by an address to the Crown for our removal
That would be a course of conduct which would v'egft
speedily operate as an appeal to the people's feelings,' such
as the Noble and Learned Lord seems so anxiously to are
sire, the result of which would be to convineehim that tn
country at large has no participation in the opinions Pro'
fessed by himself and his party. Indeed all the Noble
Lords on the' opposite side of the House seem to have
silently acknowledged this melancholy truth, for although th
speech of the Noble and Learned Lord was of a nature cal
eulated to create a very great and deep impression on the min,e
of those who heard him, I could not but observe that to:
cheers with which he was greeted by those who surrounded
him were 'faint and feeble in the extreme. For Lords
knew Lor.
knew full well that if they pledged themselves to the truth
of all that fell from the Noble and Learned Lord, tl?el
would not be doing their duty if they suffered the admler,
stration of the affairs of the country to remain in the hadou'd
of his Majesty's present Government, during the
Pe the
which must in all probability elapse bet Ween this and we
next session of Parliament. It certainly appears t 0 be
very inconsistent in the Noble and Learned to talk in
wl
way he has done, when he knows ail the time that blot
his friends have not the support of the country, andLioee
on that very account they dare not take means to Py
themselves in the offices of Government, even thoughi-stbowill
might feel otherwise disposed to do so.—(Cheers.) ire.
now be hardly expected of me to go through- the reset
sport of all that has occurred in the
course of the 131:e ono
session—if I were to do so, it is not probable that IWoo
bring afresh to conviction any of your Lordship's °leo
in regard to those proceedings, and for myself" i lre,
oaty say, that after such a retrospect, I should itwiej
main of opinion that the measures which we have esethe
have been good and proper ones—measures of avilicfbiell
country stood in need—and that the arguments by 11., of
they were supported, were founded upon a firm Igtsle
truth. The Noble and Learned Lord took the truoar
to go through the King's Speech, delivered at the
mencerneat of the session, and observed upon it thokoks
premises which it held out were mighty, but that the se, ise
were nothing, It should be recollected, however, that
promises were what I had the power of making, hut.si
their performance I could not command—your Lordsiiope
t was who interfered, and prevented me from carrying ain
works into effect. if your Lordships had not interfeceb 1
the way you have done, and that upon grounds vlh'ctetl,
Could hardly have supposed any one would have auePy of
and in which I must say you stood entirely alone, °la not
the measures proposed to be carried into effect would4o,o
have been impeded in their progress. You have tAli the
eat the Registration of Voters Bill, though it 113 'the
viously been agreed to by those of your party ill
House of Commons.
Lord LYNDHURST—No, no ! eoer
Lord MELBOURNE—I say it was agreed to hreodt.)
party in the other House in its main features.—(Hear," 0,011
Then there was the Post-office Bill, and the 114:1 by
Catholic Marriages Bill, which were hardly 01).1"secoer
anybody in the House of Commons. You bring things
selves then into this dilemma. One of these two,
yoar
is Undoubtedly true—either that the gentlemen °' these
party in the House of Cotnnions did not oppose weieh
measures, because they feared the unpopularity ,or to
would result to them for doing so, and chose rather
leave the task to you in this House—most improper
-Ctiutlier ;
if it be so—which, however, I will not enter upon 1- 'two°
or that those whom you consider your friends in theitiop to
of Commons differ with you in respect to your otWes_rsell
these measures—in which case you must admit you, oto
to stand awhile unsupported by your friends in an.u_ko 0P
Parliament in the line of conduct which you have cot;
in rejecting measures which everybody but ourselvesytis
sider in the highest degree important and advantog
the country. And, this I must candidly say, is a Flora t 9
in which 1 would not wish to see you stand with re „oil
the country. I have been accused of entertaininig,ao abvreA,
to hold up to contempt the House of Lords, 09.; is °I/:
in upon its constitutional powers in the . State ; t" Se .s
the ease. I know too well the assistance and the, t. Teo
fin " if rt
power which stuoc
thhe a bsrtttaiti ceh,
andof
the
know Constitution stfi toul
tchaaptah: bene° set s°
alt!
daring
stands in need of all the honest service which it can
bate
wand. It is not me, then, whom your Lordsrl!Ps Vol!'
to accuse, but your own conduct only, if Y-
otl
and influeuee with the people on the decline
gs 11),
should ever happen that you should hold office
6.llc.idd find yourselves bringing forward those vavelbefory'
sures which you are now rejecting as you have cle_o to
—(Hear, hear)—it will be much less easy for Yiu.c
plain that conduct to the satisfaction of the Pub
Standi °I;
to 1,,0r
and your own consciences, than it is ler me rod 01
erect under the load which the Noble and .1,0:,-.Leirnda
says I have prvesiag me down. The Noble enurojera--0
Lords txp, the Court of Chancery Bill wag at be hi,.
himselfrtin trobuugthtw
had not. suMitthA la carrying into force.
think *lble
e call to mind thav,hioh
re,
gard
Noble friend near me, that the conduct
.I'avg to:;00
Staninllaries in]]
lourotsn Btiblle, Isurbejaelcl:o'l, the it:tiesois
and Learned Lord is hardly borne out in not! bad e,„w
this scheme also under his faithful care as he / certo"7,
others, and pevented its passing into -a lttr'.,t to bitool"si,
4.111 at a loss to conceive how he will instill' he c
to have suffered to pass into a Jaw a Bill wpm"