The Sun.
London, England, 1822-03-09 00:00:00

BANK OF IRELAND.

Mr. MABERLY said, that as an important operation was
about to be effected, in reducing the rate of interest upon a
portion of the debt, from five to four per cent., he withed to
move for certain returns to shew the amount of remuneration
allowed to the Bank of Ireland for the management of the pub-
lic debt. After some observations, in which the Hon. Member
contrasted the allowances made to the Banks`of England and
Ireland, he was understood to infer that the latter was re-
munerated at the rate of 20001. for every million, while to the
farmer only 3401. was allowed. He moved for the " Return
of Accounts shewing the total amount of debt due to the Bank
of Ireland, funded or unfunded, the time when contracted, the
rate of interest thereupon, and the variations in the rate of in-
terest, with the dates When such variations took place, and what
is the rate of interest now paid."
Mr. GURNEY made an observation, which was inaudible
in the Galleryi
Mr. GRENFELL said, that from what he understood, so
far from the Bank of Ireland receiving 20001. per million, they
actually received nothing at all. He stated this on the autho-
rity of accounts which were returned`to the House after being
moved for by him in a former year. His motion was dated
the sth of May, 1818, and was for an account of the amount of
all sums paid and payable to the Bank of Ireland for the ma-
nagement of the public debt. The return was, that no such
sums were charged, or were payable to the Bank of Ireland.
Sir J. NEWPORT stated that at the renewal of the charter
of the Bank of Ireland in 1808; the Bank lent to the public
one million at an interest of five per cent., and upon those con-
ditions engaged to manage the public debt gratis. If the con-
duct of the two Banks were to be put in competition, all the cir-
cumstances attending these transactions ought to be placed in
view. He never considered at the time this arrangement was
made, that it was an adequate remuneration to the Bank.
Mr. PIERSE began by expressing the high respect which
he entertained towards the Bank of Ireland. - He could not
but remark upon the repeated attacks upon the •Bank of Eng-
land Directors, whichhad been carried on by an Hon. Mem-
ber, who spoke last but one, in a manner which he must say

was highly unbecoming, as applied to . individuals of their
character. Ile now wished to make it appear, that -they.. were
overcharging the country for the management of tlig public
debt, whilst the Bank of Ireland. was doing it for nothing.
This was nothing more than-an evasion of • terms; for if the
terms granted to the Bank' of -Ireland were coasidered, they
would be found to make a difference between the allow-
ances to the two Banks, equal to that stated by the Honour-
able Member for Abingdon. .It mattered not whether.a spe-
cific equivalent was thte remuneration, or an inerca.sed rate of
interest; the value was the -same. If the same conditions
had been larante, to the Bank of England as to the -Bank of
Ireland, instead of a remuneration of 3001. or 3401., it would also
have been receiving at the rate of 200tH. per million. It ought
to be recollected that the Bank of England had advanced
four minions at three per cent., while the Bank -of Ireland
Made their terms when they advanced the million in question.
He was surprised that these confident assertions should come
from a quarter where there _ could be no excuse for them
upon the ground of ignorance. If any Hon. Member had made
them who-had not paid much attention to the subject, he should
not have been,surprised. If, for instance, the Hon. Member
for Aberdeen, who was in. the constant habit of making
takes, and who made so strange a mistatement regarding the
Bank the other night, had said these things, he should have.un-
derstood it quite well but he could not conceive how they
could come from the Hon. Member for Penryn, who devoted
so- much of his life to the subject. He had felt it necessary' to
make these observations, not for his own interest—( Hear,
bear !)—becauSe he had barely his qualifications as a Director
in Bank Stock. • He never, during the 35 years that he had
been a Director, had changed his stock out of 'motives -of
Hea ia hear !) —From 'this 'circumstance himself, as
well as other Hon. Directors, had lost many thousands. Whe-
ther the Hon. Member for Partarlington thought the'Directors
-had abilities to manage' their concerns or not, was a matter of
little care to him : he knew that he would much rather take the
opinion of a number of Bank Proprietors than that of- our mo-
dern philosophers.—(Hear, hear !)---He thought that if the
new political economists bad constituted the majority of the
Bank Directors, its.transactions would not have been attended
with the success which had resulted from them. The business
-.of the Bank was not to be conducted by theories and specula-
tions.—(Hear, hear, hear!)--Ile would say—and he thought
he should be borne out in it by the House, that the Bank Di-
rectors had pursued a line of coriduct at all times strictly ho-
nourable.--(Hear, hear.!)—He would say more ;—during the
late long and arduous war, the Bank of England supported the
credit of this, as well as of .other countries, through all the
• storms which threatened them. Ile was informed that upon
the Continent the Bank of England was never spoken of but
in the highest. terms of admiration for its good faith in ho-
nourably fulfilling all its:engagements. •
Mr. RICARDO gave every credit to the Bank Directors for
their personal exertions ; but he thought that the Bank Re-
striction Act of 1797 might, by proper Management, have been
made beneficial to the country. The injudicious issue of paper
had 'caused the national calamities ; and. the - subsequent inju fi
-
dicious purchase.of gold had been attended with much incon.:
venience.• He really thought the Bank Directors had not-known
what they had been about ; but' at the present watanot a motion
inviting-the discussion of the subject, he would merely state
his wish that a proper opportunity would be afforded for an in-
quirY, • the result of winch he • bad no doubt would • prove the
correctness of what he had stated. . .

Mr. H. GURNEY spoke. a few words, which could not be
heard; after which-Mr, ManEar.EY.shortly explained. •
Mr. IIIONCK could not agree with his Honourable Friend
(Mr. Ricardo), in his belief that the Bank Directors had not
known what they had been about.' They had, rained vesry con-
siderably by,the Bank Restriction Act, and had, during the
war, increased their issues from Bto 30,000,0001. Their paper
had depreciated transactions, and with respect to com-
modity had fallen, he believed, not less than 50 per ccnt.t—
Government were now paying in full a loan borrowed in a de-
preciated and almost worthless paper currency. The Bank
Stock had increased from 120 to 280 per cent. independent of
large bonuses .Which its -Proprietors had, received ; and, alto-
gether, it was his opinion that no other Company in the uni-
verse had made such extensive profits as the Bank.
Mr. T. WILSON begged to remind the Hon. Gentleman
opposite' that the excess of paper he had mentioned had in-
creased the price of corn, and consequently the amount of rents..
It was not to be supposed that all the profits of the war had'
fallen to the lot of Bank Proprietors.
Mr. MANNING said, that the Bank had been prepared to
resume its paymentS in cash during the war, but that such a
resumption was considered as injurious to public policy.
Mr. GRENFELL-, Sliding that he had been personally al-
luded to, could not forbear offering a few observations to the
House. He was perfectly aware of the fact alluded to by the
Hon. Director (Mr. Pierce), but he thought one improvident
bargain did not excuse another. He begged to disclaim all
personal feelings
.towards the Directors of the Bank ; but to
him- it was.. clear that the .plan alluded 'to -bad occasioned im-
mense profits to' that Establishment. He had, as a proprietor
hiniself, participated in those profits. From the year 1797
their ostensible profit had been not less than 7 per cent. Their
property had'inereased 30 millions .in value since the war Of
1790, and the stock of himself and, of every proprietor had been
proportionably ' benefitted by that increase.. Of this fact he
challenged .a denial. Those connected with the bank were in-
variably talking of 'the. public services rendered by the bank
during the, war. • It was true they were alviays ready to ad-
vance money-to -the Government ; but so 'great was the amount
of the profits they 'derived during the restriction upon cash pay-
ments, that it seas perfectly,idle to talk of their having rendered
a service to any one but themselves. The lion. Member (Mr.
M.) had talked' of their readiness to pay in cash ; but in their
memorable report, - professing their readiness, they had taken
care to "hint 'at the prudence of the restriction. He (Mr. (171 t)
had always voted against the continuance of the Bank Re-
Striction•Act, but had never found a Bank -Director in that
House to vote,with him.' He repeated that, in his opinion, it
was a inoCkery to say that they had been desirous to ray
in cash during the war, or to talk of their services to the
Conn try: . .

The Motion was then put and agreed to.
Mr. SYKES gave notice, that on Monday next he should
move fof leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the duty on Tallow
Candles.

Mi. BERNAL begged to ask the Noble Marquis whether
he was yet enabled to give the House any information respect-
ing the Russian Tariff?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he was not ; the
last official intelligence he.. had received on that subject came
down no later than the 30th ofJanuary. -
Sir J. NEWPORT moved for a Return of the Imports and
Exhorts, and of the Irish Shipping employed about the same,
during the years 1820 and 1821.—Ordered.