The Sun.
London, England, 1831-10-06 00:00:00

words quoted by the Iloble Ration were only chatleable on
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The Mite of BUCKINGHAI4f--4n is o' or three.
Lord PLUNKETT—WeII, suppose it 'Were' ao. Upon
this the Noble Lord—beange one, two, or even thtlas had
acted improperly—not only arrrtigned those, but told the
Hotta that there was not only a revolution in progress,
but one actnall'i C.7mpleted in the country.—(Cheers and
laughter.) This certaitilt tints as magnificent a deduction
from slender premises as he had clet heard.—(Laughter.)
Loi'd TENTERDEN agreed with tht Noble and
Learned Lord as to the danger of rejecting a just vat.rea-
sonable measure; but the matter for them to consider svaa,
whether this Bill was just and reason ible—(Cheers)—
dud, in order that they might come to (Nat consideration,
he should more the Order of the Day fur res/aiing the
adjourned debate. .
Earl GREY rose to order. There was a question con-
cerning a petition already before the Noose; and there
were other petitions to be presented.
Lord TENTERDEVI had not been aware of that.
The Earl of WICKLOW wCuld notojaNi; ead b,
their Lotdship if there had only F.g-'
he Nubia Varian' ;
g. ' esic the Noble and Learned Lord
'to be core-' .41
or at the nirminguarn
neetin But
41, whether hig covsespondent had informed
iris that 'one of the speakers, afie having adverted to
.ItutrydAhavitig rAsdri to pay the ship-trior,ey, hatistated
tnat in like manner, he would refuse to pay the taws ; and
had then called upon those who would refuse with him
to hold up their hands, uprat which the hands of one
hundred and fifty thousand persons vrere held up ; after
which, be called on those wha would not refuse, to bold
up their hands, and there was not one exhibited 7—( Hear. )
He should like to know whether, after that fact, the Millie
and Learned Lord should still maintain the peaceable,
orderly, and kindly disposition cf the meeting at Bir-
mingham ?—(Hear, hear.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that fiddling could
have been more natural than his Noble and Learned
Friend's (Lord Tentetden's) mistake, in supposing that
they had been debating for a couple of hours without a
question before them, for it was a thing that they were
in the habit of doing continually.—(Hear, hear.) But
it so happened, most extraordinarily, that there was a
question before them at that instant, and he should avail
himself of it to answer the query that had been put to
him by,;the Noble Earl who hid just sat down. His cor-
respondent, he begged ta say, bad not mentioned the fact
just stated by the Noble Earl; nor had he (the Lord
Chancellor) heard of it till that moment. He certainly
did not like the fact, but what he had to say about it be
would reserve for the debate on the Bill. Undoubtedly it
was a disagreeable piece of intelligence—(A 'augh)--
but, nevertheless, as a lawyer, he must say, that all those
hands might have been held up, and yet he could not say
that there was any breach of the King's peace, or any
offence that the law knew how to punish. He could not
help it. Such was the law. With respect to the
" kindly" disposition of the meeting. that was a new word
introduced by the Noble Earl. What his correepondent
hid stated was, that the meeting was conducted as re-
gularly as one of their Lordships' meetings—(A laugh)—
and that it had separated as quietly as children coming out
of school.—(A laugh.)
The Earl of ELDON should be ashamed of himself, if
after living so long in his profession, he did not take that
opportunity of saying a few words. No man could be
more ready than he was to admit that a meeting Will not
answerable for the declarations of an individu4l; but if
holding up their hands, or in any other way, the meeting
had endangered the peace of the country, he knew no rea-
son for believing that they had not already fallen into the
situation of being answerable to the laws of the country.—
(Hear, hear.) If those statements which had been read
to the House had really been made, he would take the
liberty of saying, that if those statements had come under
the cognizance of the Law Officers of the Crown, and if no
satisfactory explanation of them had been given, those au-
tborities had not done their duty to the country in failing
- le crai , Pot this being the case,
he was necessarily disposed to believe that there -was some
way of accounting for men having presumed to make sue
statements. As a lawyer, he begged to apply himself
to the Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench, and to
the Noble and Learned Lord who, for so many years, had
presided over the Court of Common Pleas (Lord Wyn-
ford) ; and be desired to know from those Noble and
Learned Lords whether, if those hands had been held up
in the manner described—and the fact could be proved—
every individual in the meeting was not in point of law
as much answerable as the man who had proposed to them
to hold up their hands.—(Hear, hear.) And he begged
to tell the Noble and Learned Lord (Brougham), towards
whom he should ever entertain the greatest respect, that
that seat on the woolsack would not be a seat which any
one could maintain for six months if the doctrines now
circulated throughout the country—which were every
morning placed under the review of every one—were suf-
feied to be promulgated any longer.—(Hear, hear.) That
was his opinion ; he alone was answerable for his opi-
nions, and for that he was prepared to answer at all hazards.
The LORD CHANCELLOR rose, not so much for the
purpose of replying to the observations just made, as for the
purpose of preventing his Noble sad Learned Friend under
the gallery from answering the question put to him. If
the matter in question were an indictable offence, his Noble
and Learned Friend might be called upon to try it, and
therefore he would at present feel the impropriety of de-
livering any opinion respecting the law as applicable to the
acts done. It was quite a mistake to suppose that be (the
Lord Chancellor) had given the slightest countenance to
the Birmingham meeting—be merely said that no breach
of the peace had been committed. An indictment might
be preferred for an offence of another nature ; upon that
he gave no opinion—he went no further than to say that
no breach of the peace had been committed. The Chair-
man said it was a peaceable meeting—meaning that there

was no riot.
Lord TENTERDEN was not ungrateful to his Noble
and Learned Friend upon the Woolsack for the admoni-
tion received from him, but he could assure the House,
that even without the admonition he ethould have refrained
from pronouncing any opinion, for the matter might come
before him judicially; and if his Noble and Learned Friend
had not so addressed to the House the necessary explana-
tion he himself should have felt bound to explain.
ILord WHAANCLIFFE and the Earl of DUDLEY rose at
the same time, but the latter gave way. The former
did not mean to impute the words of the speech to
any one but the person by whom it was spoken, or to
fix responsibility for it upon any other person ; but he
desired to call the attention of Government to this, that
if they allowed such proceedings to go on much farther,
everything like legitimate authority in the country must
cease.

Lord HOLLAND—I do not rise for the purpose of
calling any one to order, but I would beg to request the
attention of the House, in order that I may be allowed to
state the condition in which matters now stand. The
question before the House is, that a certain petition do lie
upon the table, and upon this a conversation takes place.
Now I have no intention of snaking observations upon
the Birmingliam^meeting, or upon Political Unions, any
further than to observe, that what we heard to-night is
nothing more than a repetition of what the Noble and
Learned Lord opposite has often said before on similar oc-
casions. For example, when the association in Ireland
was under discussion, and also in the case of various other
associations in other places, he over and over again told
us, that the country could not last if such things were
allowed to continue. I confess it has always appeared to
me, that discussions of this nature will neither redound to
the honour or dignity of this House, or in the least de-
gree assist our deliberations. However, upon that sub-
ject I will not trouble your Lirdships with any observa-
tions, neither shall I say much upon any other topic ;
but 1 cannot refrain from just noticing what fell from a
Noble Baron as to the feeling of the city of London, and
which I cannot for a moment allow to pass without
registering my di-sent. But as to what fell from a
Noble lilaron on the Cross-bench, I will assert that no-
thing more unjust, more unwarrantable, or more uncalled
fot was ever uttered. The words of the Noble Duke were
quoted, and what do these words amount to 2—lf you re-
ject this Bill you will soon have another Bill for Reform,
though not from the same hands or from the same Govern-
ment—that would be a Bill in truth more unpalatable to
souse of your Lordships, though, probably, more in accord-
ance with the votes of this H..use. I can think in such
circumstances of a Noble Lord or Noble Duke who had
previously declared, that nothing could induce him to form
part of any Government which sanctioned a measure of
Reform. I can now fancy such a Noble Duke coming
down to this House and saying... 4, Things are now most