The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-05 00:00:00

teas a vast majority of represesttatiVes in favour of a sat of
•powng, whose aggregate population was twenty thousand,
aver a body of seventeen great towns, whose egate '
population anuntnted to 176,000.--(Hear, heate.)oi ite re-
minded tire Noble Lord of the vigorous opposition once
given by him to a plan of Reform proposed hyasaellHon. '
lßoronet, which certainly was not more violent tag tenprac-
ticable than his own, and poseested 'ever: St the float ad.
saotage of being firm and intelligible, and lefv.no door
open to improper patronage,--(Hear.) It was simply to
Jet every 23,000 men have their representative in that
House.—(Cheers.) And touching the comparative merits
of the plans, he asked the Noble Lord if he were not
throwing the apple of discord into Yorkshire. Would
Huddersfield, Halifax, and Bolton be contesettkl with one
representative, when the same wee thnted to Maldon,
Northallerton, and 'lhirske ? Nothing so monstrous was
ever heard of as the plan of the Noble Lord ; and were he
(Mr. Croker) ever so favourable to the general principle
of Reform, he should feel it hisduty to resist what he must
mill so blind and injurious a disproportion. The house
WIN told, too, that it was to du all this to satisfy the
people, but the measure proposed was not what the people
asked—nothing like it ; " They ask for bread, and you
give them a stone ;" and whenever the scheme became
known and understood, petitions would be presented from
all the towns so unjustly deprived of their rights,
claiming to be placed on the same footing as Halton
or Tavistock. The Duke of Bedford, as every body knew,
had paid the most peculiar attention to the borough of
Tavistock ; lie had enriched it by his wealth, and adorned
it by his taste, and it was not
to b e wondered, and far
from being to be regretted, that its inhabitants should be
influenced by gratitude for the benefits they had received.
Yet the son of that Noble Duke, bearing a name illlus-
trious in the history of the country, had not scrupled to
state that his father would never again allow one of his
family to canvass Tavistock. What ! was it indeed come
to this—that a Russell should never again present himself
for the suffrages of a borough which owed so much to
that great family ?---(The Marquis of Tavistock and several
other Members indicated across the House that the Right
Hoti. Gentleman was misrepresenting what he had said.)
He could not pretend to give the elegant slang phraseology
employed ; but he had understood the Noble Marquis to
say, that on receiving one crown, he would give twenty
in return if ever his noble father sent a member of his
family to canvass the borough of Tavistock. God
forbid, he (Mr. Croker) would say, that the
should ever arrive when a beneficent lautilbrd like
the Duke of Bedford should have no influence over his
tenants. But what he (Mr. Croker) eisr„pisjeed of was,
that while such a great town as BolNeseees allowed but
a single Member, the small bortang4.4lf 'Tavistock was
permitted to return two. tie would ;shit say a word or
two on the general proposition of thif Noble Lord. The
Noble Lord avowed that he meant twice-model and re-
construct the Constitution. In what sense did he mean
to re-model and re-construct it? It was a matter of
complaint on the other side that the measure had been
called revolutionary. He (Mr. Croke) did not assert
that it was meant to be so, nor that it was so in a
legal tense ; but he insisted upon it that it had a revolu-
tionary tendency.—(tlear.)—The design of the Noble
Lord might be just, but human nattire and circumstances
-would be too strong for him ; and Mien once lie had set
this mighty globe in motion, it would descend like an
avalanche with increasing weight and rapidity, and all
efforts to stop its progress would partake of its ruin. In
former times the House of Commons had shown a suffi-
cient disposition to encroach upon the other branch of the
Legislature. He did not allude to the bad times
when the Peers of the Realm wire voted needless
nuisances; but to a more modern instante—in the
year 1742, when a Bill of Inikmnity for certain
witnesses was sent to the Lords, and which they
thought fit to reject. At that date a Noble Lord was
found in the House of Commons to propose a vote of ten-
rare upon the House of Lords, for exercising its indisput-
able right : the form of the proposition was, " that the
conduct of the House of Lords was an ab.olute obstruc-
tion of justice." Such a state of things would soon
again occur if this measure received the sanction of Par-
liament. Such must be the result of human infir-
mity influenced by human pas-ion, He (Mr. Croker)
had never been more surprised, than when this night he
load heard the Noble and Learned Lord, through a great
part of his able speech, employ himself in showing, that
the Influence of the House of Lords in this House was
not only wrong in theory, but injurious in practice. I
hold in my hand a publication, of which the Noble and
Learned Lord may know something. lam not entitled
to say, that the Noble and Learned Lord wrote the very
article ; but, at least, he gave it his sanction 1 and, ac-
cording to report, the authorship belongs to the Noble
Lord at present on the Woolsack. Let it be written
by whomsoever it might, it would only be mentioned
with praise ; for sounder sense, or closer argument,
were, perhaps, never penned.—(Cries of read, read,)—
He had not yet mentioned the name of the per-
son who, in 1742, had moved the House of Commons
against the obstruction of justice by the Lords; he would,
therefore, now say, that the Noble Lord who made that
factious and dangerous motion was Lord Strange, the el-
dest son of the then Earl of Derby.—(Read, read.) The
article was contained in the Edinburgh Review, for July
[The Right Hon. Gentleman stated the date of the year
in which the .R,view was published, but it could only have
been heard by the few Member who sat near him, and he
spoke at too late en hour to allow us time to search through
the whole series, from 1803 to 1831, for a single pas-
sage. The general purport of it was to show the advan-
tage of having " a certain proportion of the influence of
the Crown and of the great families of the lend mingled
with the proper representation of the people ; and it con-
cluded by asserting that, were such not the case, "it
would infallibly convert Government into a mere demo-
cracy, sweeping away the humble edifices of King and
Lords."] In answer to his argument of to-night, there-
fore, he (Mr. C.) referred the Noble and Learned Lord to
the Edinburgh Reefers.. The Noble and Learned Lord,
in another part of his speech, had drawn a metaphorical
and frightful picture of the consequences of refusing this
concession. He had said that the times were ripe for it,
and had talked of the rising waters—of the deluge of opi-
nion, and had invited all who chose to venture to embark
with him upon his frail and slippery raft. He (Mr.
Croker) would reply,
" Trust not that fatal and perfidious bark,
Built in the 'clipse, and rigged with curses dark."
Remain where you are, and wait until the threatening
waters subside. What you hear is not only a fictitious
but a factitious clamour. Be patient. and the people will
recover, and become sensible of tie value of what they
would lose, and of the uselessness of what they would
gain. In the Constitution of this country there might be
a better theoretical arrangement; but he did in his heart
firmly believe that no human ingenuity could, a priori,
have conceived so admirable a practical system, promoting
the wealth, happiness, and liberties of the community—
'. Where jarring interests of themselves create
Th' according music of a well-mix'd State; *
Where small and great, where weak and mighty made
To serve, not sufltr—strengthen, not invade;
More powerful each, as needful to the rest,
And in proportion as it blesses, blest."
That perfect Government this country possessed, and
long might it continue to enjoy it unchanged. Among
its advantages was one with which he begged to conclude,
that however popular clamour might be raised, however
popular delusion might extend, in point of fact the nation
was always attentive to the voice of the House of Com-
mons : in the long-run the people always obeyed i's deci-
sions. Government could not exist if it were otherwise,
and all history attested the fact. Even in times of the
utmost distress and excitement, let the House of Commons
but do its duty, and the people would return to theirs.
Colonel SIBTHORPE moved the adjournment of the
delra..e until Illorlay, end it was carried instantly.
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter-past One.