The Sun.
London, England, 1849-02-03 00:00:00

fee neen be entertained by those who advocated
21, t new system that the old one would be
adopted; but he wished to ask the Hon. Gentleman who
had talked so loud in favour of the new course of policy,
who rejoiced that yesterday the duties upon food were prac-
tically at an end, why those duties were alone made the
eject of reform? Wry, he asked, when they heard so much
about the poor man's loaf; did they hear nothing about the
poor man's loaf and the poor man's slice of cheese.— (Hear,
hear.) Ike put this question to those consistent politicians,
those free-teade economists, and disciples of the new
school, whiCh advocated the abolition of protective duties
.and the retrenchment of the national expenses, why, in the
costae of last session, when they had commenced their agita-
ann, their voices were not raised in behalf of the poor
maxis butter and the poor man's slice of cheese?—
(plfter, bear.) They made no effort to cheapen these
strt4eleia, and allowed the Chancellor of the Exchequer to
mull his budget by their aid. -Sharp accountants as they
weke, how he would ask were they to get the 300,000/. ob-
tained ley the sliding duties scale which expired yesterday?
Did they think, though 5-6ths of the duty were paid by the
foseigner, that the people of this country would
be scared by a name, and which never could be
more than a name and a delusion, from going back
to the system which had afforded a fair return for
their produce—by the adoption of a moderate system of
import duties? The free-trader looked not to the interest of
the consumer, but the Protectionists looked to the in-
terest of both producer and consumer. They could
not forget the magnitude of the interests in-
volved, and the claims of their old labouring
poor, and they were desirous of meeting the heavy charges
by framing taxation in accordance with a statesmanlike
system, and not in accordance with an impracticable theory.
They must remember that they had assiduously endea-
voured to establish a system in which all duties on imports
or for excise were to be done away with. It remained yet to
be seen how far those who had been so ready to destroy a
system, would be able to re-fttablish the means by which
the several departments of the'Government were to be sup-
ported.—(Hear, hear.) They must recollect that if they
had in their endeavour to carry out certain theories
developed certain principles, and set themselves against
anything like protection, they might very probably have to
resist the application of these principles against themselves.
The fanners were considering even at the present time what
to them was the advantage of an expensive Government,
and when asked to look into the advantages which they en-
keyed, they merely replied that they had nothing to attend
to bat cheapness ; and he had to inform the gentlemen
opposite that there was even now a coalition among them,
not weak, nor destitute of those elements of combined opera-
tion the evil effects of which they had so fatally expe-
rienced. He was himself about to attend a great public
meeting in which the consideration of the retention of the
malt tax woald be actively taken up, in which those present
would energeticallydiscu ss the whole principles of import duties.
When asked to look at the importance of our colonial empire,
they replied what was the colonial empire to them, for they
found that the colonies were, in many respects, protected
even against themselves. In making this assertion, they
were, undoubtedly, going upon high ground. They had
themselves set the example of attacking protection, and must
expect that the arguments which they had so fluently used
would be' retorted with equal force and good will.
Honourable Gentlemen would recollect that some time ago
a considerable quantity of tabacco was grown in Ireland, and
in some of the districts of England. But this growth had
bees stopped, and the home consumer had been sacrificed, in
order to secure what had been deemed an unjust monopoly
for the colonial producer. Was it not natural, then, that
when this sacrifice had been made for the sake of revenue
the home farmer should believe that there was as
little consistency as prudence in their opponents-
So long as we were to keep our invaluable, but at the same
time our expensive form of government, so long, he con-
tended, 'oust we be able to levy taxes sufficient to meet the
expenses of the Government, and also those of the public
creditor, which we could not do unless Ministers returned
to the system which they professed to denounce.
For them to be scared by the term " protection," or to be in-
vited by the term " free-trade "—to form their financial sys-
tem on such a theory as they had promulgated—was not
lompatible with the institutions of this country. With re.
epect to the relief of the poor in Ireland, he had hears with
illeireeßie and very great regret that it was not the intention
of the Government to propound any measure, not even to lay
down the principles of any measure ; but, instead of that,
tie proposed to throw the whole thing before a Committee
•Ot Irish Members, which was anything but statesmanlike,
'manly, or bold for the Government to do at the commence-
ment ofi the session. With regard to the poor-law, whether
the area be larger or smaller, the question was considered to be
one at all events of first-rate importance. He was not going to
diapass that question now. If there was one subject more than
nether on which the Government could obtain accurate and
kilive information, it would be the very one subject on which
maters now declined to legislate. He maintained the Com-
mission, and the Government through the Commission, was
in full possession of the public opinion, either for or against
the diminution of the area of taxation ; and as far as in-
formation went, at the rising of that Commission, no
more valuable information could be obtained than
that which was at present before the House.
Any measure which might be proposed ought to be of im-
mediate efficacy to Ireland, or it should not be passed by the
House. It appeared that the Government had made up
their mind to enlarge the area of taxation, but what be
called upon them to do was to state to the House how
far they wese prepared to stand by the Irish Poor-law.
Many opinions had been expressed on the subject. A very
Indian:dial journal in Ireland protested against the relief of
the able-bodied poor. There was a strong feeling among
the clergy that the system of tithe commutation should be
different to what it was ; and, again, there was a large
ciass who were of opinion that the burden of
taxation should fall entirely upon the landlord.
He, therefore, would ask the Government not to let another
post go out ts Ireland before they stated how far they were
-fitle to standby the principle of the poor-law, what conces-
Wass they were prepared to give, and what principles they
were willing to maintain.—(Hear.) He understood they
could not bring forward any measure because the Government
were toot united in opinion upon the Irish poor-law, and
ehorefore ke charged them not to resort to the miserable
niertais that it was impossible to legislate when Irish Mem-
bers could not agree on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) The
best way to act for the welfare of Ireland would be for
some mertrber of the Government to come forwardlin a states-
manlike manner with some definite proposition, and wait
the issue tejeatever it might be.—( Hear, hear.) They could
bring forward coercive and restrictive measures without re-
Terring the matter to any Committee, and why could such a
coarse not be adopted with regard to the poor-law? The
fact was the Government were not united, and in order
to shift the responsibility from their own shoulders they pro-
peaseel the appointment of a Committee.—(Hear, hear)
Witlikagard to the points of the amendment, he had already
trespassed too long upon the time of the House to say much
upon them ; but with regard to the foreign policy of the
country, he must be allowed to express his regret that
the Speech from the Throne did not contain the custo-
mary paragraph, stating that her Majesty still continued
to receive assurances of friendship from her various foreign
allies.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to colonial matters,
after the very grave charge which the Hon. Gentleman
ttie Member for Montrose had made against the Noble
Bard at the head of that department, he should
be very much esuprised if the Honourable Gentleman
did not follow up that charge; while if the
Hon. Gentlemen stleceeded in turning out the present Secre-
tary he apprehended that the Noble Lord who at present
filled‘hat office would be quite ready to admit that the co-
lonies) had grown too extensive to be governed properly by a
single department.—(Hear, hear.) He voted for the amend-
ment of his Hon. Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire
because he felt that when other interests were mentioned,
the oldest and largest interest ought not to have been omitted
from the Speech. Either the agricultural interest was flourish-
ing, and ought to have been a matter for congratulation ; or the
agricultural interest was suffering, and ought to have been a
subject ofcondolence ; but at this time, because they could say
nothing congratulatory, her Majesty's Government had deter-
mined to say nothing in the way of sympathy. That was
treatment which, he thought, the farmer, of England had no
right to expect from the first Minister of the Crown. That was
net the course which the representatives of the agricultural
interest could allow to pass unnoticed, and therefore they
had a right to propose this amendment. The agricultural
lest had a claim to the sympathy of the Legislature, and
e who conceded that claim would vote for the amend-
ment, while those who were indifferent as to whether the
agrtehltural interest was flourishing or in dial-
culties would no doubt vote against it. But let
btfn tell the House and the Government that the
farmers would experience the deepest regret when
they found no sympathy prevailed in that Home
for tbeir sufferings; but notwithstanding the abuse which
had 'oeeatteaped upon them, notwithstanding they were consi-
dered a fallen interest, they still had the means of making
their representatives understand their feeling,—they still
bad the means of punishing the silence of those who showed
stremseives indifferent to their interest.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir W. eOMERVILLE said, after the extraordinary
statements of the lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, the
House would perhaps allow him to say a few words upon the
!abject of the Irish poor-law, to which the Hon. Gentleman
had so often referred. The Hon. Gentleman accused the
Government of tampering and trifling with the question,
but how could the Hon. Gentleman sustain that charge,
when it was remembered that the course the Government
met with
tthse"lsrioisnh Members?
pursued on thise vaerpypreqvuheistioofn
alas,.
ilmoet the eetir
Government asked them. for delay in the appointment ofa
Gentleman
hn
tfoarunttehdeirthienm-
Committee on the subject until they had received the
report of
conies. denothuencecciluetshtiehmh, because they
e,
3 C°MinHissoionloluraasblae
But tile
and did
with indecision,
net at once enter upon
but
let him remind Hon. Gene
reducing the area of taxation ;
tlemen that there were other maters connected with the Irish
keep the promise they made
,poor-law of more importance than the area of rating. Go.
,ern_ had determined to
of a Committee on this
session, that at the comm
Vat the present session
t• would concede the appointment
immense importance
Outfoct, and looking at the
i The e obj
se the question, he could not see
w The Govern-
could be advanced against that course. ineasares
eat were perfectly ready to propose any
ich were likely to be calculated to alleviate the suf-
rings of the people. With respect to what had been said
had
concerning the Irish Poor-law Committee he
to reply; that it, was not usually understood that
the members of the Committees entered upon the task with
le determination to be unanimous. No; they entered upon
the investigatido for the purpose of hearing and collecting
the hest evid4nce, upon which they
arrived at are
suit. He confessed he was surprised to hear the exagge-
rated statements of Mr. Grattan. That Honourable and
Learned Gentleman had said he was a ruined raan.—(Roars
of laughter.)
(jumping up, and with much emphasis)—
Mr. GRATTAN
ITO, no.—( Laughter.)
Sir W. SOMERVILLE thought he heard the non. and
Learned Gentleman say that if he was a younger man he
would go away from Ireland, as staying would lead to his
here..ming a ruined man.
Mr. (RATTAN—Hear, hear.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE—Now what did the House think
was the rate of taxation in Celbridge,:the union with which
the Hon. alentleman was connected—the rate was 7%d. in
the pound.—(Roars of laughter.)
e Mr. GRATTAN (raising his eyes and hands aloft)—Oh l
.---( Laughter.)
Sir W. SOMERVILLE—The expenditure was Md. in the
pound, so that the Celbridge Union had now money in
the hank. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman
also said that 490,000 able-bodied men could not obtain em-
ployment, and that they were receiving rations of one
penny a day: now this was an erroneous statement, since
the highest number during the year in the receipt of
relief was 65,000.—( Hear, hear.) He thought he had
a right to complain of these exaggerated statements,
statements which were eminently calculated to give English
gentlemen erroneous information as to the real state of
Ireland. He was bound to state that there were
many parts of Ireland in which the people
were not so poverty-stricken as was represented.
Mr. GRATTAN explained. Thank God, he was not an
Irish Secretary.—(Cheers.) The rates in the Celbridge
irep, which were voluntarily contributed to ley many of
themselves,
t emasneldvleos,rds,
ahamdoungteedt, troidls.b3fd. in the
(me gentleman the
pound. They taxed