The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-14 00:00:00

church (the collegiate church) that was supported by
church-rates. All the others, numbering from thirty to
forty, were maintained not by church-rates, but on the
voluntary system.—(Hear.) There was, in fact, no dif-
ficulty about the matter; there was no necessity for any
registering or classifying. Where men went to church
they would willingly pay for its support.—(Hear.) The
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) had told them,
that the people who monopolized the churches belonged
to the middle classes. There was no doubt that they
saw few poor people—fewer than he would like to see—
in the church—(Hear, hear)—and he thought the libe-
rality of sentiment the Right Hon. Gentleman had shown
would not stand less favourably before the country be-
cause it had met with a sneer from the Hon. Member
opsosite (Mr. Henley). The people. then, who attended
church, were just the very class who could pay for the
fabrics of their churches.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Henley) insinuated that the rates would
not bo paid if this reoposal was carried; but, if there was
not religion, there was a point of honour at all events
among men that would lead them to be ashamed to see
Dissenting chapels well maintained, and their own
churches going to decay. He repudiated the senti-
ment of the Hon. Gentleman. He thought there was
no danger whatever of Churchmen shrinking from the
duty of supporting their own places of worship if they
put the church•rates on the voluntary principle; the
churches would be as well supported as they were now.
—(Hear.) He did not believe in the low bate sentiment
he had attributed to the members of the Church of
England, that they would pass themselves off as Dissen-
ters; that they would, in short, play the hypocrite to
save the tax.—(Hear, hear.) •lle did not blame the
world for much practical hypocricy at all. Men were
generally in earnest on matters of religion; but, if there
v:ere hypocrites, they would bring it to a better market
than to sell their religion for the paltry saving of a piti-
ful pittance of church-rate.—(Hear, hear.) He had no
doubt many of his friends would vote for the motion of
the Honourable Member for Tavistoek; but, being a
Churchman, and anxious to show that he wished to ex-
empt Dissenters from church-rates, he should have great
pleasure in supporting the amendment of the Hon. Gen-
tleman the Member for Oxford.—(Cheers.)
The House then divided on the question whether the
words proposed to be omitted from the original resolu-
tion should stand part of the question or not, when the
numbers were—
Ayes ... ... 183
Noes ... 20
Majority ... —163
The original motion, as proposed by Mr. Trewlany,
was then put, when the numbers were—

Aires ... ... ... •.• 84
Noes ... ... ... ... ... 119

Majority ... ••• ... —35
Both the original motion and the amendment were
consequently negatived.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that, with regard to the ad-
journed debate on the resolutions moved by the Hon.
Member for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli), perhaps
that Hon. Member would not object to go on with it to-
morrow (this day), and, if the debate should not then
terminate, proceed with it on Thursday.
Mr. DISRAELI had no objection to accede to the
proposal of the Noble Lord. He only wished to consult
the convenience of the House.

Mr. EWART said he had a motion standing first for
Thursday, on the subject of the punishment of death,
which he certainly was very desirous of bringing on.
Mr. DISRAELI thought it would be better to go on
with the adjourned debate to-morrow (this day.)
Mr. BOUVERIE complained that during the two divi.
sions which had just taken place the doors of the House
had been kept closed, by which several Members who
were ,not present at the first division, but who were
anxious to have taken part in the second division, were
prevented from doing so.
The SPEAKER said the doors ought to have been
opened immediately after the first division, and before
the question on which the second division took place was
proposed.
VAN DIEMEN'S LAND.

Mr. ANSTEY then rose to move an address to her
Majesty on the subject of certain illegal ordinances' or
acts of Council for the taxation of the people of Van
Diemen's Land, the attempts of Lieutenant-Governor
Sir William Denison to intimidate the judges of the
Supreme Court of that island into declaring such ordi-
nances or acts to be legal, and the grievances com-
plained of by the colonists of that island in their peti-
tion presented last year to her Majesty, and printed by
order of that House; and was proceeding to state the
circumstances which justified him in calling upon the
House to ask her Majesty to direct the local authorities in
future to respect the independence of the judicial func-
tions of that Court, and also to signify her disallowance
of any ordinance or act subsequently passed by the said
Lieutenant-Governor in Council, for giving to such Me.
gal ordinances or acts the force of law, when an Hon.
Member drew the attention of the Speaker to the cir-
cumstance of there not being 40 Members present.
The House was then counted, and there being only
38 Members present, the House adjourned at 20 minutes
past Ten o'clock.
Mr. Henry Berkeley, M.P. for Bristol, had paired
with Mr. Hall, M.P. for West Gloucestershire, until
half-past nine o'clock, the former in favour of, the latter
against Mr. Trelawny's motion for the abolition of
church-rates, and arriving before the second division,
they were excluded in consequence of the doors not be-
ing opened between the divisions, as complained of by
Mr. Bouverie.

Colonel Clifford paired off in favour of Mr. Tre-
lawny's motion for the abolition of church-rates, with
Mr. Pole Carew, against.

TO THE SECRETARY OF THE
METROPOLITAN REFORM ASSOCIATION.

Sir,—On Monday the 12th the Second Reading of
the Bill fur altering the Navigation Laws was carried
by 266 against 210. This is virtually a defeat, being
less than half the majority on the last occasion, when
the numbers were 294 against 177. Everybody might
see it was coming to this. The system of incessant and
vigorous attack bdgun by Lord George Bentinck,
joined to the system on the other side of making no
replies, has told upon the House and upon the
public. In fact this is the way in which all
losing causes recover themselves, and all winning
ones are lost. The tide may be said to be turned, as far
as relates to further progress at present; and it remains
to be seen whether the Free. Trade party have anchors
and cables which will enable them to hold their own.
Their opponents in the agricultural interest clearly in-
tend trying the point; as is evinced by their inability
to refrain trom boasting of their fidelity to " the next
endangered interest," which implies that the shipowners
have their assistance now, under an engagement to go on
with them for the future object. If anything in the
chapter of accidents should give a little help to such a
project, a Minister with a moderate fixed duty on his
lips would in another session find a powerful current for
carrying him into office.
All this is what everybody knew, or might have
known. It was within the compass of every man's ex-
perience, that human affairs never stand balanced on a
needle's point, but always, if they do not go one way, go
the other. When the commercial or Free-Trade party,
by an unexpected event with which they had very little
to do in the way of cause, found themselves in posses-
sion of temporary success, the question was to be tried
whether they had insight into what was necessary for
the completion of their objects, and whether they had or
had not within themselves the elements fur being a ruling
power in the State. Some, looking to the examples of states-
manship and policy which have been displayed by com-
mercial republics, thought it probable they had. In-
stead of this, a hurried burning of the regimental
books, and division of the military chest, demon-
strated to their enemies how little danger there was
on this point, and how certain a persevering and con-
nected rally was of being attended with success. Of
course, when the grand vision has broken down, the
connected visions vanish into thin air. The peace
abroad which was to be secured by the progress of free
trade, and the financial reform at home which was to be
enforced by the influence of the Free-Trade party, are all
dissolved in the merry laughs and radiant countenances
of the substantial victors on Monday night's division.
When things come to a pass of this kind, the best that
can be done is to make the worst of them. Free-trade,
for the present, has been brought to a melancholy de-
fensive. When the boys of to-day have tarried till their
beards aro grown, the question may again make head,
under better auspices than before.
On Tuesday au important debate on the subject of
Church-Rates. The question is manifestly making way.
The arguments on the part of the Establishment appear
to reduce themselves to this—that the Church wants all
she can get for her own extension, in other words for
emoluments to her own clergy, and therefore Dissenters
must pay for repairs. Something was said too, about
the interest Dissenters have in the orderliness produced
by going to church. The reply to which would seem to
be, to ask the Church to pay for the orderliness
produced by going to meeting. It would
be worth the experiment if practicable, to see this Church
put for a year or two under a regimen of paying Peter's
i'ence towards a cathedral at Rome, fur the sake of
noting how it would deport itself under that peculiar
dispensation.
The Member for Tavistock's Resolution for proceeding
to take measures for the Abolition of Church-Rates, was
supported by 84 against 119; a good division. There
seems to be a very faithful 84.
I am, Sir, your obedient servant,.
AN OLD BEI 010111-6°
London, March 14, 1849.

COURT CIRCULAR,
OSBORNE, TUESDAY.
Her Majesty and his Rc)ya and the younger
l Highness walked early
this morning in the Park of Osborne,
branches of the Royal Family walked and rode as usual.
There was no addition to the royal dinner party yes-
terday.
Sir William C. Ross, R.A., had the honour of taking
the last sitting yesterday, for a likeness of his Serene
Highness Prince Ernest of Leiningen, by command of
the Queen.
A Committee of her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy
Council for Trade and Foreign Plantations, had a meet•
ing yesterday, at the office of the Board of Trade,
Whitehall. The Lords present were—the Right lion.
Henry Labouchere, President of the Beard of Trade;
Earl Grey, Secretary of State for the Colonies; Earl
Granville. Vice-President of the Board of Trade; Sir
Edward Ryan, and Sir James Stephen.

APPROACHING MARRIAGE IN HIGH LIFE.—We
are enabled to announce that the preliminaries are ar-
ranged for the marriage of Lord Foley and Lady Mary
ritzalan Howard, eldest daughter of the Duke and
Duchess of Norfolk. The ceremony is expected to take
place in May.