The Sun.
London, England, 1831-09-02 00:00:00

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the Committee would not be surprised at hearing thAt
was his intention to object to its machinery in tit° also,
He would, however, go further, and say, that if he bad
clothed himself as a Reformer, he could not brace himself
. .

up to carry this proposal into effect in the same manner
that this Bill did. If he understood. this Bill aright, the
Crown would have no power to dissolve Parliament for
three months after it was passed into law. Now that was
a novelty in the Constitution. From its earliest rudi-
ments to the present time no instance had ever occurred of
the Crown being limited for one hour in its prerogative to
dissolve the Parliament at its pleasure. He therefore ob.
jetted to the novel principle which this clause introduced
into English legislation. If this principle had met with
the approbation of the Keeper of the Great Seal, he would
ask that Learned Officer, " Can you, the Lord Chancellor
of England, consent to originate a Bill, by which the
power of your Royal Master to suspend the existence of
Parliament,—a power which hitherto has never been dis-
puted fm an hourt—is locked up, and abrogated for thrt e
months at least, and may be even for a longer time ?"
He
would never give his consent to such a clause, ao long as
he was a Member of the House of Commons. He vas
most anxious to support the privileges of that House, but
he was equally anxious to support the just prerogatives of
the Crown ; and lie had always understood that one of
those prerogatives was to dissolve Parliament at its plea-
sure.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) The existence of
this clause in the Bill was, with him, an in•uperable objec-
tion against the Bill itself. Brides, if the Bill were
to pass with this clause in it, how would they be able to,
move for a net,' writ to supply the vacancy of any Hots.
Member who might die, or accept the Chiltern Hundiede,
before the next dissolution ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—The enactments of
this hill only relate to future Parliaments, nut to the pre-

sent Parliament.--(Cheers.)
Sir C. WETHERELL—If that were so, his arKnment
fell to the ground. As many gentlemen might not he in-
clined to dispose of this rlause in the summary way in
which be was inclined to dispose of it, he would now pro-.
reed to state his objections to the machinery of it. First
of all, the Committee ought to bare a greater knowledge
of the individuals appointed Commissioners than that
which it could acquire by bearing their, names read hastily
over at the table. For that reason alone, he thouibt that
time aught to be given for the consideration of this clause.
Tbere were some of the Commissioners whom even the

1%13b1e Lord thought might be possitiy- accused of radi-
calism. Now a gentleman might be a very honourable
and a very clever man, and yet a monstrous radical.—.
(Laughter.) In running his eye through the lie., he
could not help seeing that there was in it a very good list
of many very warm political radical Reformers. That was
an objection to the list ; and, in saying so, be did not mean
to impeach the moral honesty or the private respectability
of the Commissioners. He likewise objected to the op—
' pointment of thirty-one Commissioners to new-fangle the
whole geographical and . political map of England.
Amongst other names on the list, he perceived that of a.
learned and respected friend of his own, the Chief Baron
of Scotland, an individual to whom lee might reasonably
object, as he was naturally connected with his station
with the Scotch Reform Bill, rather than that which was
now under consideration. The mention of this name, he

was willing to believe, had originated in m'stake ; for
the Chief Baron's situation as a Judge must ne-
cessarily render him quite unfit to discharge the dutits
that were to be entrusted to these functionaries-
Ministers, he was sure, never meant to place
a judicial character in a position that would una-
voidably subject him to jealousy and suspicion. Then,
was there not reason to apprehend that the portion of the
Commissioners who should be placed on active duty ()feud'
a nature would be too severely overworked ? On one day
they would be whirled off to Cheater in the Telegraph, and
on another they would be hurried away to Northampton
in the Rocket. All this wear and tear of locomotion, it
was much to be feared, would be productive of the most
formidable consequences.—(Laughter.) He presumed it
was in honour of the Ist of September that Ministers had
selected these thirty-one sportsmen to mark, wing, bring
down, and lacerate every borough, town, and county in
England, and return to Downing-street after having bagged
their quarry.—(Laughter.) The County Members who
voted for such a course of proceeding were in effect treat-
ing their constituents as animals fere nature, who might
be packed in one preserve, or transferred to another, at
the arbitrary will and pleasure of these erratic sportsmen,
duly licensed by the Treasury.—(Laughter.) It was also,
he believed, a source of general dissatisfaction throughout
every county in England, that the Commissioners whom
Government proposed to appoint should be empowered t.-)
name the places in which the elections w-re to take place.
He thought, moreover, that they would be allowed much
too great a latitude of discretionary power, which seemed '
to leave abundant opportunity for -*bowing antipathy to
Tories and favouritism to Whig•.—(Hear, hear,) The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman concluded by asserting that
it was a monstrosity to make the people of England, as it
were, a mere stock-in-trade, to be partitioned out and di-
vided and subdivided at the election of a clique or quorum
of Commissioners.
Mr. H. GURNEY had no objection to intrust tole-
rably extensive powers to the Commissioners now that it
was understood that their report would be subject to the
decision of Parliament.
Mi. C. W. WYNN said, that many of his objections
to the appointment of Commissioners bad been removed
since it was arranged that their report should be subjected
to the consideration of the Legislature. In his opinion,
however, it would be much better to have seven Commis-
sioners who should take upon themselves the whole of the
responsibility, while the remainder might be Sob-Commis-
sioners, rather than have the responsibility divided, as was
proposed, amongst the entire thirty-one. He would fur-
ther recommend the Noble Lord to introduce a few words
into the clause, providing that in the event of a dissolu-
tion before the new machinery should be completed, the
elections might be conducted according to the old boun-
daries which had been recognized hitherto.
Sir R. INGLIS inquired of the Noble Lord whether
suitable instructions had been prepared for the Commis-
sioners?
Lord ALTHORP said that Government would not in-
terfere upon that point. The Commissioners would, of
course, draw out rules and instructions for themselves.
The Noble Lord then proceeded to reply to Mr. Wynn,
but in so low a tone that it was difficult to catch his sen-
tences. There was one objection, lie observed, of the
Right lion. Gentleman, which was of considerable im-
portance, though not of so much as he deemed it, re-
specting depriving the Crown for a time of the power of
dissolving Parliament. But practically, until the passing
of the Mutiny Act, the Crown was now deprived of the
power of dissolution. He did not therefore attribute
much weight to the objection of his Right Hon. Friend.
His Right Hon. Friend had said that a power should be
given to the Crown to dissolve Parliament previous to car-
rying this Act into effect, and that the old constituent
bodies should be called into action. To this proposition
lie bad a great objection. After the Parliament had
enacted by law that a certain constituent body should be
formed, he should feel the greatest objection to giving to
the Crown the power of dissolving Parliament for that
purpose.
Colonel SIBTHORPE objected to his Majesty's Minis-
ters appointing Commissioners. There should be a general
survey by a Committee of the whole House.
Mr. FRESHFIELD thought the power of the Com-
missioners too extensive. Another and more serious ob-
i ction was this: suppose the case of the demise of the
Crown at a particular period.—(Hear.) The House had
no power to ail beyond six months; and suppose that they
were occupied longer than that in considering, and refer-
ring, and reconsidering awards, what constitutionally would
be the situation of the country ?
Mr. HUGHES HUGHES objected to a Judge being at
the head of the Commission. The next Commissioner
was a Member for a county subject to division. The
fourth Commissioner was a Rev. Gentleman. He begged
to be understood as only calling their qualifications in
question. It was not said what was to be done if the re-
vised report was not approved by Parliament. If any
amendment should be moved contemplating the erasure of
any or all of the names of the Commissioners, he should
support it.
Mr. FANE condemned the legislating in so uncertain
and prospective a manner as this clause processed to do.
They had heard of ex post facto law, but here was an Act
le
olgfetisikgoch:htihp'uirrpos„,v obstruct
to declare something to be law in future which was unknown.
Lord ALTHORP thought that three months was ample
time to make a report, and when Parliament enacted that
something was to be done, it presumed that it would be
done. Many objections of this kind might be made with
reference to other subjects besides this. The Hon• Mem-
ber for Penryn (Mr. Freshfield) had asked, what would be
done in the event of the demise of the Crown? Why Par-
liament would meet immediately.—(A laugh.) If the
Commissioners had not completed their labour in glove
months, and the House bad not done theirs in six mouths,
undoubtedly great difficulty would arise. But it I'arloia:
went saw this, they would of course adopt measfutrhees tonotl:
viate the difficulty. Therefore, the ohjectTiiion o
suppose.
that
taward in aia,
emberM hail
recoil'.
an Act of Parliament. A . .
mended Ministers to sive up the division of counties. Ile,
(Lord Althorp) confessed that he was surprised that there
months,hiee C Te to o appeared es
ur sp p would o veryl
tlh notiu
toed.