The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-15 00:00:00

I one, end perfectly concurred with the Noble Earl (Earl
let A.l-7-)n-n) in ---rasing his eateni,hment that the
u Marquis (S. quis of Lansdowne) should consider
hat their Lordships should be satisfied with his state-
ment. 'the Noble Marquis (Marquis of Lansdowne) said
that he did not expect that the French troops would
march frem Civita Vecchia to Rome, or that they would
offer any opposition to the Republicans at Rome.
How, ho asked—how, in the name of God, could they
offer opposition to the people of Civita Vecchia, whey
they made no resistance whatever? Hors could
they produce a constitutional and wholesome
Government fur Italy without war, when they knew that
the people of Rome were determined to carry out their
plans to the last? Ile did not know the motive of the
French Government in sending out that expedition, but
he believed that it was to obtain some glory, not for the,
people of France, but for the people of Paris. He looked
upon the matter as a most extraordinary one, and hoped
that her Majesty's Ministers would not allow their Lord'
ships to continue much longer without the necessary it"
formation. Next with regard to the works of art, he
should say that he (Lord Brougham) had received s
letter from the Financial Minister of France, stating that
the French had not taken away any of those works of
art, and that he (Lord Brougham) suggested to bins to
petition their Lordships, which would not by any means
be an irregular course, stating his denial of having take"
from Rome any of those works of art, that he (Lord
Brougham) would present the petition, and that such
would be satisfactory. There was a precedent for such
line of proceeding in the case of Mr. Saunders, the other
day; and such a. course, he considered, would ho most
satisfactory.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that her Ilfr
jesty's Government were cognizant of the fact that the
Pope had made earnest applications, not only tee France,
but to various other continental powers, to throw a tore
on the frontiers of the Roman territory, with a view to
that which, in the opinion of the Pope, wouhl restore
good government to the Roman States, end undouhtedil
the circumstance of that earnest application ves.s not
foreign to the circumstance which afterwards came to the
knowledge of her Majesty's Government of an axpedi'
tion professing to be undertaken in that view.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he was °f.
opinion that the great desire of the French Go /ernsee ek
and of the individual who presided over it, was the Pre:
servation of peace; and, therefore, he could not but
regret that those questions had been brought forward by
his Noble Friend. He thought them, to say tee least'
premature, and that it was highly indiscreet to have
put them. The answer of the Noble ;Marquis gust
be satisfactorily received, and his Noble Friend should
wait patiently to see the result.—(Hear, hear.) Fel
his own part (the Marquis of Londonderry's),
,he
a better opinion of the internal state of France, se'
of the general prevalence of good feeling in tits!
country. He was satisfied that the great body of th.,"
nation desired to act rightly ; and although their. Lot"'
ships were in favour of a monarchical form of Govern'
merit, still that ought not to prevent them from assisting
to sustain the French Government, merely because the
form of that Government was at present republican!.
e
(Hear, hear.) The head of the French Govannem
had, he thought, menifisted sagacity and pe adeneee
which would rarely be met with under circumstances 0'
such trying difficulty as those by which ha had b2e°
surrounded.—(llcar, hear.) It was impossible for bit°'
of course, to congratulate General Oudinot on the sue'
eess of his expedition ; but, on the other baud, /3°
could state it upon good authority, that the mors 1 state
of the French army was much better than was sup pose!'
and that it did not contain above 300 or 400 Soalis`q
There was a groat desire for peace in France, slid 1,
anything could attest it, it was the cordiality with whio.o
the recent English visit' had been received there, as his
Noble Fecnd near him could attest (Lord Broughstal) °e
he believed he had available himself of that mode 0f
reaching the French capiteh—(Great laughter.)
Lord BROUGHAM. said he begged leave to give the
most complete contradiction to the statement oz the 111"
moor, whichever it was, that he had accompanied any
set of men to France.—(Renewed laughter.) There
was not the slightest founda'ion for such an aseertion:
for although he certainly did go over the same day, /Id
it was by a dgerentconveyance.—(Laughter.)
would take occasion to express a strong aid.decide°
opinion which he entertained upon the subject of tho'e
international visits. Ho. deprecated beyond everything
as fatal to the peace of the country, that any carosnuel
cation of the kind should ever be held between any f°'
reign country and this country, except through the
Government. It was a safety principle which should
be kept inviolate; because, if any ex' ,editiol
Of this sort was to be taken to be a :nations'
expedition, though once or twice, or three times, Ile
harm might result—and no harm had yet takes
place from this cause; for everything had certainly
gone off in the best feeling, and the visit itself had been
received with the most perfect cordiality by their neigh'
hours—yet, on another occasion great and serious baro
might result, as a collision might take plane between
large bodies of the two nations, which would lead to bad;
blood between them, and end very probably in the re°s
mischievous consequences: Therefore, however
cessary the caution might be deemed, he certaSnly enter;
tained the opinion. that on all future occasions it .would
be expedient to allow these expeditions to take place
under the sanction of Government. ' ,
The subject then dropped.
The Duke of ARGYLE presented several petitions
praying that the privilege of substituting affirmations
for oaths in courts of law, now enjoyed excluiaely by
Quakers, Moravians, and Separatists, should be extended
to other sects. The petitions were from Various see'
tarian places of worship at Dalkeith, Fife, F.clinburghP
and Dunbar, and also from 1,200 of the ink abitants ,
Edinburgh.
Lord NELSON brought in a Bill to regultete the sr
pointrnent of chaplains at foreign ports and places.
The Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read
a second time on Thursday week.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented severs'
returns.
The. Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a Ira:
tion from Newton Ards, in the county of Dot vu, agates'
the Poor-law (Ireland) Rate in Aid Bill.
ELECTORAL DIVISIONS.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that before their
Lordships resolved, themselves into Commit tee on tb°
Rate in Aid Bill, he should wish to ask the Nonie,gsr"
quis, the President of the Council, whether any PO'
gross had been made with the Bill to alter the size of the
electoral districts in Ireland?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that ate Bill had
yet been brought into Parliament to effectuate an alters'
tion in the size of the electoral divisions in Ireland; al,ll
the reason was, that though it had been the intention 0'
her Majesty's Government for some time past to intro'
duce a measure on the subject, yet the Committee 9P'
pointed by their Lordships to inquire into is, had not yet
made its report, neither, had the Committee appointc
by the other House, for the same purposes. So fsrt
however, as the mere alteration of the size of the elect;
total divisions was concerned, the Commissioners 110
full power to vary them.'
The Earl of WICKLOW said he did not believe tI3O,
any Act of Parliament was necessary to alter the size
the electoral districts, as the Commissioners had Nl'
power over it.
POOR•LAW (IRELAND) RATE IN AID RILL.
The Earl of CARLISLE having moved that; them'
Lordships should resolve themselves into a Committee
on the Poor-law (Ireland) Rate in Aid Bill,
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL said that., in conger
quenco of the great agitation which now prevailed 11;
Ireland with regard to this measure, and its undoebtea
tendency to render disloyal the most loyal parts of
.that
country, he should earnestly recommend the House not
to hurry its progress. In consideration of those points,
he should propose that their Lordships postpone the
Committee.
The Earl of MINTO said, that sti an made 'standing
had been come to between both hides of' the House that
the discussion should be taken at a future stage, although
the Noble Lord bud a perfect right to Subinite
motion to that effect, he hoped he would not now. offer
any opposition to the progress of the Bill.
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL said that he was 11°,
till then aware of any such understanding, and would not
otherwise have proposed a postponement,
Their Lordships then went into Committee on the
Bill,

U)

The Earl of WICKLOW said he objected not only t°
the principle of the Bill, but also to the manner in whic,. :'
it was drawn up, both being„ in his opinion, vevy unjust'
He should propose, in order to meet the views of mural
of his Noble Friends in that House, that a provisio°
should be added to the Bill, to empower tenanits to de"
duct from their rents the amount of the rate.
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL said he disapp roved
that proposition altogether, the landlords having oriouP
on their hands already.
The Earl of CARLISLE said that the suggestion of
the Noble Earl near him (Wicklow), though madts, in his
usual liberality of spirit towards Ireland, was wholly 11°..
constitutional, and could not be entertained.
Lord MONTEAGLE said he had to propose a- elatls°
which, he thought, might have the intended effect. nil
object was to have a distinct account kept of the a.p2liee;
tion of the rate in aid within twelve clays after Cac st
of December in each year, to which the Bill re:Sarre
together with an account of the amounts levied, sod °
the proportions in which it had been raised.
-
After a few words from Lords Campbell, Gl ogell,
Monteagle, and the Earl of Carlisle,
The Earl of WICKLOW contented to withdra
motion.

Their Lordships having gone through the clauses,
11
The Earl of CARLISLE intimated that the repot `a
the Bill would be brought up to-morrow (this day),, aD
that upon an understanding that there wcs to bo wa
cession csion taken upon it before Friday, which he 91011
name for the third reading, until
when Noble 1.40ri1,
might reserve any observations which they might feel
disposed to make on the Bal.
Lord AIOUNTCASHEL protested against those
derstandings t!, which the Noble Earl (Carlisle-)
alludid, and thought that it was not desirable to e''ea,
into any such arrangement as the Noble Earl sugg'estj„
seeing that on the evening fixed all the power of tt ie
ov.
vernment might be brought forward against the 0PP,,,,
vents of the Bill—a Bill, he must say, which wool a 00'4
place Ireland in a worse position than she was vireo
present in.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

IOmUIS:ifovOEFIICEONTI/
LAND"'
(IRELAND) BILL.
SIIIA°IVNDS' May 14.
(Continued from our Third of last night.)
Mr. JOIIN O'CONNELL said they bad been warned
by the newspapers for some time back that a thunder-
bolt was about to fall on them, and it bad come upon
them that evening from the lion. Member for Sh,3ffielu'
in a speech characterised by all the grimaces of a :noun;
tebaulc, and all the spite of a baboon;—(Loud cries of
" Order, order," " Chair, chair.")
The SPEAKER informed the lion. Member, for
Limerick that the expressions he used with referteace.to
the Lion. limber for Sheffield were quite
Merl Lary.