The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-16 00:00:00

gained the esteem an l approbation of the people of Eng-
land in a greater degree than any plan of Reform proposed
to them before. The great difficulty in the way of Re-
form, for the last twenty-five or thirty years, bad been,
that its advocates were not unanimous in favour of any
given plan, but that obstacle was now happily in a great
measure removed. Many Hon. Members were ingenious
at finding fault with the Bill, and bringing forward
schemes of their own, but bow did it happen that no one
ever heard of these propositions till the present measure
had received the sanction of the country'—(Hear, hear.)
In 1822 the Noble Lord below him (Lord J. Russell) hail

moved a resolution to the effect that Reform was necessary,
et it was rejected by a majority of 269 against 161.
Again, soon after a similar motion was defeated by a still
larger majority, and the supporters of Reform in the House
dwindled to a comparatively smaller number on the third
attempt of the Noble Lord in 1526.—(-fear.) The worthy
Alderman then referred to the conduct of the mock-Re-
formers in the case of East Retlood, and concluded by ex-
pressing his conviction that their refusal to transfer the
franchise to a large town on that occasion, bad tended more
to promote the cause of genuine Reform than any thing
else which had occurred either before or since.
Sir J. MALCOLM could not imagine why Ministers
on a question of this importance were so very averse to a
little reasonable delay, when it appeared they were certain
of commanding a majority sufficient for their purpsse.
Surely they could not desire to take advantage of the
present excitement of the public mind, in order to hurry
forward a measure so momentous in its character. It was
a new doctrine that but a few days were requisite to de-
cide upon a vital question affecting the rights of thousands
of Englishmen ; and for his part he should dread such a
monstrous principle much more than he would a despotic
tyrant who carried devastation with his victories through
the world. Ministers, he had no doubt, had already
given their best consideration to this Bill, but then it was
to be hoped that they would listen with patience to the
objections of those who happened to differ from them.
The time, he trusted, would arrive when the present ex-
citement would subside, and they shou'd meanwhile be
allowed to examine the provisions of the Bill with the scru-
pulous caution which such a subject must necessarily re-
quire. The House had consented to the first and second
reading, but it by no means followed that they would agree
to the details. That, thank God, was still a place where

honest men might freelyspeak their sentiments; he was there
to avow hi., and he would rather• at this moment hold the sta-
tion which he occupied than stand in the present condition of
the colleague of the worthy Alderman.—(Loud cheers
from the Opposition.) lie was dependent upon no man,
and to no man was he responsible for his opinions.—(Hear,
hear.) An Hon. Baronet, whom he was sorry not to see
that evening in his place, had lately uttered what he would
designate a foul libel on a certain Noble Duke,—he would
name him,—the Duke of Northumbeland—when he said,
snapping his fingers, that that distinguished individual
did not care a jot for the people of England.—(Repeated
cries of " Hear.") He acid this on the authority of a
character which had never been impeached, and much re-
gretted that the Hon. Baronet was not present, as lie
wished to have an opportunity of contradicting him to his
face.—(Heir.) It was his wish to Bee the Constitution
provided with proper safety-valves, and no man ought to
be without a safety-valve himself.—(Great laughter, and
cries of " Hear.") The power of reflection was the
seeety-valve to which he alluded, and he could assure Hon.
Gentlemen, who saw lie was but a young Member, though
an old man, that he would neither• be intimidated by
laughter nor intoxicated by applause.--(Hear, hear.)
In conclusion, the Hon. Member declared his inten-
tion of giving the Hon. Baronet's motion his decided
support.
Mr. S. WORTLEY was not one of those who objected
to the disfranchising part of the measure, on the ground
of the House not being possessed of a right to resort to
such a proceeding ; on the contrary, he thought that if
they proceeded on sufficient grounds, the Legislature had
both the right and the power to disfranchise. The Hon.
Member proceeded to say, that a distinction must be taken
between popular clamour and public opinion : he admitted,
that a good deal of the former had been displayed on the
side of the Bill, hut it was by no means apparent that the
latter was in favour of it. He professed himself the
hearty friend of the motion of his Hon. Friend, which
wes in accordance with the principle established in the cases
of Basset'aw and the Scotch burghs. Further, he con-
tended that the principle of the Hon. Baronet's motion
was borne out by the Bill itself in several instances, in
proof of which lie might refer to• the course taken with
respect to places in Wales and Cumberland. The Bill
admitted the principle of union and extension, which were
the grounds of his Hon. Friend's proposition. When it
was considered that the ministerial measure would no
longer leave boroughs under the influence of corporations
or subject to nomination4erhaps the supporters of Reform
themselves would admit that there would be no danger,
but rather an advantage, in uniting some of the smaller
boroughs. The Hon. Member concluded by observing
that he was aware individuals situated like hirn,elf, who
opposed the Bill, were liable to imputations upon their
characters; for' his own part, however, lie was determined
to act uprightly and with independence, disregarding all
such imputations, which he was satisfied he did not deserve.
If he thought the Bill calculated to promote the public in.
terest, it would afford him pleasure to support it, whatever
sacrifices he might be called upon to make ; it was
because he considered the measure dangerous that he
opposed it.
The LORD ADVOCATE thought the question of dis-
franchisement had been alresdy practically determined by
two previous decisions of the House, and therefore depre-
cated the course taken by the Hon. Member, who wanted
to raise the point anew. He certainly understood the
Right Hon. Baronet opposite to sanction the principle of
deciding the question last night, and it must be admitte I
that the question had been determined by two large majo.
rities. After this it was too much to attempt to disturb
a decision which in itself afforded fair grounds for reject.
ing the present motion. One of the main principles of
the Bill consisted in the destruction of nomination boroughs,
the smaller of which the Noble Lord (John Russell) had
described as being incurable, from the nature and circum-
stances of the population ; in such places it was impos-
sible to dilute the virus so as to render it innoxious. ith
regard to more extensive places, the Noble Lord o' served
that the poison might be diluted and neutralized, by an
infusion of persons not of the nomination party ; and such
boroughs were not to be disfranchised, but to be thrown
open. At present, however, it was only his busine.s to
speak of the incurable nomination boroughs contained in
schedule A, which it was impossible to render independent,
and which must therefore be disfranchised. He said,
in answer to the Hon. Baronet, that it was impossible
by the numerical addition of such nomination boroughs,
to obtain a pure constituency. They might as well attempt
to form a whole man out of so many ungrown babies. It
had been said, that if the proposed plan were adopted, op.
posite influences might tend to neutralize each other•. He
admitted this, but denied that the result of the conflict
could ever be to represent truly and faithfully the interests I
of the people. No doubt, according to the lien. Baronet's
proposition, the extent of certain influences would be les-
sened ; but bis plan would not change the character of the
influence. The Hon. Baronet and others had expressed
a vast deal of veneration for the ancient institutions of the
country: no man in the House felt a greater degree of
veneration for those institutions than himself, and, far from
attempting to overthrow or impair them, his object was
to ensure their permanence by correcting any defects
which the lapse of time might have occasioned. The an-
cient boroughs of the country, so many of which had
fallen into decay, were left out of the representation from
time to time, as they fell off in wealth and population.
But bad the principle now proposed by the Hon. Baronet
been applied of joining three or four as one borough ?
Nothing of the kind ; they were left out of the repre-
sentation by not being summoned by the Crown to send
Members ; and had the Paine mode of issuing or suspend-
ing writs been continued by the Crown, a similar mode
of Reform might now be adopted. But the Bill in the
course now proposed only followed the ancient practice of
the Constitution, while the plan proposed by the Hon.
Baronet was the innovation. If such an innovation had
been proposed on that (the Ministerial) side, it would have
been objected to as strange, unprecedented, and fantastical.
On these grounds he should feel it his duty to oppose the
amendment.
Mr. CHOKER said, no doubt the speech of the
Learned Lord was an excellent speech ; but it was any
thing but a speech calculated to save time.—(hear, hear,)
At least, it did not come up to the notion which lie (Mr.
Croker) had of saving time. Had they now arrived at
the fourth night of the Committee to so little purpose ?--
(Loud cheers from the Ministetial side, echoed by the
Opposition)—had they now come to the fourth night of
the Committee, he repeated, to so little purpose, that the
Noble Lord did not know what they were about.—(Cheers
from the Opposition.) He owned he was surprised at
one possessing the critical acuteness of the Learned Lord,
—for if lie had not much Parliamentary experience he had
an acuteness of understanding and an extent of intelligence
possessed by few men,—but he owned he was surprised
that the Learned Lord should not know the meaning of
the two votes to which they bad come on the preceding
evenings. Now if the Learned Lord did not know, he
would tell him. There were three great principles to be
decided in this Bill. The first was, whether the en-
franchisement should take precedence of disfranchisement.