The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-04 00:00:00

crOuld become but a sort of nornnation borough for the

Crown. Why the idea of a nomination borough with a
body of 40,000 electors was an impossibility.—(lle tr.)
The Government might possess some influence there—it
was very probable it would—but not enough to affect the
freedom of election. Under all these circumstances he

in ,
must say, that he did not see any justice the arguments
by which the Right Hon. Gentleman sought to exclude
Deptford and Greenwich from the right of sending Mem-
hers into that House.—(Hear.)
Mr. H. GURNEY spoke in so low a tone of voice,
and amidst so much confussion, that he was scarcely au-
dible in the gallery. He was understood to say that he
should vote in favour of the clause : that the large po-
pulous towns had formerly been selected as places fit to send
representatives, and that so far as that part of the Bill was
concerned it was but a return to the ancient Const:tution
of the country. Besides, the Right Hon. Gentleman had
a short time since advanced an argument that he now
seemed to have forgotten, and that, if well founded, was
much in favour of the present clause. That argument
was, that by this Bill a great number of Memb,.rs was
taken from the south and given to the north of England,
so that the latter would have a great preponderance.
Now, by this clause that evil would be completely re.
moved, for the repres ntatives of the metropolitan districts
would be a balance to those of the great towns in the
north of England.
Colonel WOOD was att.:lid his Hon. Friend who had
just sat down would not find that these new metropolitan
boroughs would afford any refuge to those gentlemen who
now found their way into that House through the means
of the old close boroughs.—(Hear, hear.) He feared,
too, that officers from India, merchants in active business,
and retired old gentlemen would not be now likely to find
their way into the House through these boroughs. He
had before suggested that there should be two new Mem-
bers fur Yorkshire, and last night it had been suggested
that there should be two more Members for Middlesex.
He thought that suggestion was an admirable one. He
had looked into the subject, and he believed it would be
found that Yorkshire and Middlesex corresponded together
in the amount of their population. of their wealth, and
their intelligence. The Tower Hamlets were a distinct
county of themselves. They had a distinct county rate, a
distinct Lord Lieutenant, and a militia of their own ; and
if two Members were given to the Tower Hamlets and
two for the eastern division of the county, the place of
election being fixed at Hackney, where the county meet-
ings were now generally held, and two other Members for
the western division, the place of election being fixed at
Brentford, it would be a more acceptable arrangement
than that of these boroughs. It would be a much
more respectable constituency ; and, by enfranchising
the copyliolders, it might be made most numerous. In
this way Lambeth, instead of being a metropolitan bo-
rough, might receive the right of voting for Surrey, which
might have two additional Members; and Surrey might
be divided into two parts for the purposes of the election.
The same observation would apply to Kent, where, instead
of two Members being given to Greenwich, Woolwic),
and Deptford, two more Members might he given to the
county, which might be divided for similar purposes. He
recommended this the more, as the population of these
places was a migratory population. For these reasons he
should vote against the transfer of the franchise to Green•
wich and Woolwich.

Mr. C. WYNNE objected to giving Members to these
metropolita❑ districts, as their Members, from their vici-
nity to the places they represented, would be more under
the controul of their constituents than any other Members
in that House. It was impossible to doubt that fact after
what they had seen with respect to one Member for Lon-
don, who was called to instant account by his constituents
for giving an independent vote on an ;distract part of the
Bill, and after what they had observed with respect to the
late Member for Southwark, for his conduct in a late
Parliament. After they had observed these things, he
asserted it was impossible to doubt that such an influence
as would be exercised by these boroughs was most dan-
gerous. The Noble Mover of this Bill had once enter-
tained a similar opinion, when he stated that many of the
evils of the first French Revolut'on were to be attributed
to the immediate influence possessed and exercised over
the Government by the sections of Paris. There could
he no doubt, that whenever a violent clamour had arisen
in the great towns upon any particular subject, it had
been checked by the influence of the counties, among
which it was not so easily spread ; and there could be as
little doubt, that if these metropolitan boroughs were
erected, a clamour raised in Westminster would be in-
stantly communicated to London, to Southwark, to Mary-
lebone, the Tower Hamlets, and all the rest, and that by
these means the Members tot these pl ices would acquire a
greater degree of influence in that House than was pos-
sessed by any other March ors.
_ _ _

An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn,
said that he did not entertain any of those fears which
seemed to influence so much the opinions of Hon. Gen-

tlemen on the other side of the House. He did no
think there was a material difference between the intim
ence exercised by constituents who might, on the following
morning, call their Members to account, and that pos-
sessed by those who, by residing fifty miles off, would not
call him to account till twelve hours afterwards. He could
not but wonder at the supposition of the Right Hon. Gen.
t!eman, that county 'Members were comparatively inactive.
What ! did the Right Hon. Gentleman forget the ques-
tion of the Corn Laws ?—(Hear, hear.) Could any body
of men have been more united, or have acted more toge-
ther than county Members had done on that occasion ?
Then, again, on the introduction of a Game Bill, was
there ever a more constant and ready attendance than there
had been of the county Members on such a question,...,.
(Hear, hear.) And even now, let any Member talk of
the question of wool or Lops, and he would see the
countiy gentlemen at once taking steps on the subject, not
only With as mileli zeal and activity, but with even more
than was generally displayed by the representatives of any
town whatever. He thought that the Government had
taken a wi+e course in this case. He thought that these
layge places ~yoold send reasonahle men of business into
that House; and, for his part, he entertained no fear of
the gentlemen demagogues that might be elected. He had
always observed, that if such persons found their way into
that Home, they either by the excess of their zeal, or, if
ever representative could he influenced by bad motives,
they exhibited motives which gained them no support ;,..,
that House, and they not only exercised less influence,
they became more powerless within those walls than they
would have been out of them....-( Hear, bear.) Ile should
support the clause, and at some future opportunity should
express more fully his opinions in favour of the Bill,
Mr, Alderman WOOD said, that be had been provoke.]
on a great maity n.'.casiotts to rise and say something in
answer to the remarks made upon the Members ftie thp
city of London, but he had not done so from a fear that
he should be assisting in delaying the Bill.--(Hear, hear.)
He had not allowed himself to be provoked by the remarks
of one Right Hon. gentleman, but another had got up,
and had, in the same spirit, referred to the Members for
the city of London. the Right lion. gentleman had
treated the electors of the city as men of the lowest order,
and as men who acted upon principles they did not un-
derstand. He must tell tin s.: Right Hon, Gentlemen that
they were mistaken in thus treating the Livery, for that
many among that body were men of as high • character,
and of as much intelligence, and held a rank as elevated,
and enjoyed a fortene as ample as any men in that House,
be they as high as they might.--(Hear, Lear,) One of •
the Right Hon. Gentlemen had distinctly alluded to the
circumstance of one of his (Alderman Wood's) colleagues
being called before his constituents, or rather voluntarily
going before iltem—(A I,ugh)—to explain his conduct.
He believed that rpos of the Aienthers were called to ac-
count by the men who sent them there, in a manner more
severe than his Hon. Colleague had been called to account,
and some or them, he believed, had obtained their seats
upon promises full as strong a,4 those given by his Ron.
Colleague or himself.. put thep it was raid that personsso near to their constituents could be iii.stantlY collet] tO ac-
count, so that a great influence would be possessed in that
House by the electors of the metropolitan boroughs, as
they were called. Why there was a small borough, 100
zoile;t from that House, where the Hon. Member had been
.., •
calien toz..oui4t foi 6:4 ab,,t-i;# -fut;... '...e E;:ye lgon a o.t.w
r.)
s-
an cd the bort;'ugl6 Where was the dicei,ence(l-lea.
t .• '
Tile Illght Hon. Gentleman did 110* ti to have he'"
of the feelings of that claas of people. Then they were
' told that the House had met last Saturday because there
was to le f. tueatii-4 o; Op Li7e7y, to complain of the de-
lais of the Bill. 'But had there been •a nesting "if hey
dill not get a great body together, because they saw a
change—(llear, hear, and much laughter)—they saw that
men had come to their senses--(Hear, hear, and a laugh)
—anti so they oid tio-? Frept, lie• c'tuld, not but remark
upon the inconsistency Ot the afzuments of thd.e woo op-
posed Deptford • having Members because' the'population
amounted to 50,000, when they had all along been com-
plain:a-; fart t!! :t boroughs which were to retain their
Members were only nounnattan itoroqits, 't.'',;,l; resi;ect
to the electors of the'city of 'London,' be' tintht sty, that
• there was no class equal to thetri in any 'other place. In
picot of iti.io, :;.,-; 7...efrretito the meeting at the flans
ion-
where a bOtlY of wait ass,:tniiii, po.sc.ed pe';"r
,a
of more wealth than any other body of 'men in the olive.,
W...s the Right Hon. 'Gentleman afraid of the influence of
such men, when be i.alk,-.;d et the 'same time about; preserv•
ing the influence of pr6pet:ty.—(Hear, Itar.) A fart ,
pm tion of.these men were now voters for the city of Lott-