The Sun.
London, England, 1831-02-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF LORDS, FEBRU Rr 11.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURIT presented a petition
from Gloucester, praying for a repeal of the duty on coals
carried coastwise.
The Earl of RADNOR presented a petition from East-
wood, in Renfrewshire, praying for retrenchment and the
extension of the elective franchise in Scotland. His Lord-
ship also presented a petition from a place in Berkshire,
praying for an alteration in the tithe system.
A petition was presented from Bridlington, in the East
Riding of the county of York, praying for a repeal of the
assessed t txes.
A petition was presented from Mr. Johnson, praying
for an extension of the time allowed him for prosecuting
his claim to the Annandale Peerage.
The Earl of CAERNARVON presented a petition from
magistrates, landowners, &c. of a district in the county
of Meath, against the granting of large pensions by the
Crown, and praying for a revision of the pensions already
granted ; and for a repeal of the assessed taxes.
REFORM.

Lord FARNHAM presented a petition from Navan, in
the county of Meath, praying for Reform in Parliament,
but upon a principle in which he could riot concur—he
meant vote by ballot ; and the petitioners prayed that the
duration of Parliaments should be confined to three years,
and that all householders should have the right of voting.
He seized the occasion which the presenting of this peti-
tion offered him to say a few words on the subject to which
it related. He was not one of those who held the opinion
that the actual distresses of the country arose out of the
want of Parliamentary Reform. But he was satisfied that
an opinion that such was the case did prevail very generally
throughout the country; and be had no objection that
the subject should be considered. The Noble Earl at the
head of the Administration had notified, on the first
night of their Lordships' meeting after the recess, that
3linisters had taken up the subject, and had prepared a
measure which, as they conceived, would effectually at-
tain the desired object of Reform, without giving any just
cause of alarm to those who were anxious to preserve the
institutions of this country. He did not at present ask
from the Noble Earl any information respecting the details
of the measure; and it was not with a view to elicit anv
such information that he now adverted to the subject. But
then it was of the greatest importance that their Lordships
should have the fullest and most accurate knowledge of the
present state of Parliamentary representation, and that the
Most authentic information on that head should be lairs
before them, before they were called upon to decide on the
merits of the new plan. It was to be lamented that in..
formation of this description had not already been pro-
duced on their Lordships' table; but as it was not already
these, no time ought to be lost in procuring it, in case the
Ministers still entertained the purpose of bringing their
plan before the Legislature at the period which had been
alrea•ly mentioned. He did not know whether, in order to
precure the information required, a Committee of Inquiry
ought to be appointed, but he was convinced that some-
thing ought to he done to bring the present state of the
representation in the fullest and most authentic manner
before the House without delay. He was aware of only
two ways in which the object could be accomplished ; the
one was by appointing a Committee of Inquiry—the other
was by procuring the most ample supply of documents re-
lative to the subject, so that when the new measure came
before them they might be enabled in the most effectual
way to compare the present state of the Parliamentary re-
presentation with that which would he established by the
plan now to be proposed by his Majesty's Ministers, in
case it should be adopted by the Legislature. It would
be, therefore, very gratifying to him if be could learn
from the Noble Eal that he intended to lay on their Lord-
ships' table this desirable information before they were
called upon to discuss the new measure, in case it should
pass the other House, and come into that of their Lord-
ships. Unless the most ample information should he laid
before them by Minister?, lie himself would be dis-
posed to move for the necessary documents. He should
be very sorry to be obliged to interfere with the course
which the Ministers wished to pursue in reference to this
subject, but he did think that it was desirable that their
Lordships should have better information than that which
was to be collected from newspapers, or from Red Books
or Black Books. There was a great variety in the elec-
tive qitalifieations of the electors for the great bodies of
counties, as to which last alone their Lordships had already
sufficient information. But in many places there was a
great variety of qualifications, and there were perhaps com-
paratively few who had an accurate knowledge of scot and
lot, potwalloping, and other qualifications of that sort ;
and it appeared to him that they ought to have a full view
of the whole. As he had already said, he should have no
objection to have the question considered ; but he should
certainly be disposed to stop the progress of the new men.
sure until their Lordships were in possession of the infor-
mation which he had mentioned.
Earl GREY—Nothing could be more proper, or more
coneiderate, than the resolution of the Noble Lord to ab-
stain et present from requiring any information froth his
Majesty's Ministers as to the details of their me isure on
the subject of Parliamentary Reform before it came
regularly under the consideration of this House, when the
whole of the plan might be fully and fairly discussed. If
he, (Elul Grey) had thought that any more 'preliminary
infermation was requisite than that which the Legislature
must have acquired in the course of the forty years, during
which the subject had been under discussion, he should
not have failed to call for such information. But although
there Axas a great veriety of elective qualifications in different
places, he considered that the whole was now sufficiently
well known to enable the two Houses of Parliament to com-
pare the two systems, and to come to a sound conclusion on
their merits ; and he was, besides, of opinion, that he could
not bring before their Lordships accurately in the shape of
returns the description of information which the Noble
Lord required. But if the Noble Lord did think it
de/dr:age that such information should be had, and would
move for such documents as might appear to him best cal-
culated to elicit that information, he (Earl Grey) would
be inclined to give his assent to the motions—provided,
however, that they did not interfere with the progress of
the measure, which in every view ought to be submitted
to the consideration of the Legislature with as little
delay as possible. Unless the motion of the Noble
Lord for documents should occasion an unrea-
sonable ielay in the consideration of the subject, he
should not be disposed to stand in their way;
but it was of the highest importance that at this moment
no delay that could be avoided should take place in bring-
ing under the attention of the Legislature a subject which,
according to the Noble Lord's own admission, had made
a deep and general impression throughout the empire. It
was obviously highly desirable that the matter should be
speedily and thoroughly investigated and settled, that men's
minds might be set at rest on the subject, and the general
agitation composed. As to the other course of proceeding
mentioned by the Noble Lord, viz., that of an inquiry by
a Parliamentary Committee, that was a mode to which be
confessed he felt considerable objection. It was a course
which he himself bad often proposed, and the objection
that had always been made to it was, that tliic would be
only setting on foot an interminable investigation, calcu-
lated to loosen opinions, without any great chance of lead-
ing to any precise or beneficial result. He thought at
the time that there was much in these objections, and it
had therefore become the object of Government to keep
clear of these objections, and with that view they late
thought it best to submit the measure at once to the Legis-
lature in the shape of a Bill. That Bill would be dis-
cussed on its merits, without keeping the public mind in
suspense on a subject which had made a deep impression
on the great mass of the community; so that public con-
fidence might be restored, and an additional impulse given
to the causes of public prosperity. It was on these
grounds that the Ministers acted, and it was for these
reasons that they had adopted this course in bringing the
measure under the consideration of the two Howes of
Parliament—first under the consideration of. the other
House, where it was, in every view, desirable that
it should originate, and next under the consideration
of their Lordships, whose sanction he hoped it would
receive. The Noble Lord had referred to what he
had said on the first night after the recess, and he now
repeated that the measure had the unanimous approbation
of the Ministers, and the sanction of him, without whose
approbation they, as Ministers of the Crown, could not
have brought it forward. And he did entertain a san-
guine hope that the measure would be found effectual for
its purpose, and at the same time restrained within such
moderate bounds as to be susceptible of being carried into
execution without danger to the institutions
of the State.
The Noble Lord himself had the temper and good sense
not to call for any information as to particulars etpere:eonutici
and such information, if it hail been called for, he
not have been disposed to give ; and neither on this nor
on any future occasion would he say more on the subject
until the Bill should come under discussion is its regular
progress through Parliament. He repeated that if the
Noble Lord thought proper to move for documents, if the
linotioa should not produce :endue delay, and interfere with
the progress of the measure in contemplation, he would in-
terpose no difficulty in their way.
A petition was presented from the parish ot fetLAndrcwsi,
Norwich, praying for a repeal of the Assessed Taxes, Fed
a petition from a district in Norfolk, praying for an
quiry ireto the condition of the labouring classes, and for