The Sun.
London, England, 1825-03-17 00:00:00

CHELTENHAM THEATRE.

Mr. HODSON moved for leave to bring in a Bill for li-
censing the theatre of Cheltenham.—Leave granted.
KINGSTOWN RAILWAY.

Mr. TA LBOT presented a petition from the inhabitants of
Dublin in favour of the Kingstown Railway.
PERUVIAN MINING COMPANY.

Mr. GREENE moved the second reading of the Pasco Peru-
vian Mine Company Bill. Attacks, the Hon. Member said,
of a very unwarrantable nature had been made upon the scheme
connected with this Bill. The company had the, authority of
no less a man than Humboldt for believing all they proposed to
be perfectly practicable. Moreover, he denied that the House
had any right to inquire into the speculations of individuals,
while those speculations tended neither to private nor public dis-
advantage.
Mr. HOPHOUSE said that, before he sat down, he thought
he should make the House subscribe to a very different opinion.
He did not wish to go out of his way to interfere even with
gambling speculation. Individuals, while they would be con.
tent to remain silent, might dupe one another upon the Stock
Exchange to their hearts' content ; but it became a very diffe-
rent question when they appeared before the House of Com-
mons, and asked the House, not merely to notice, but to sanc-
tion what they were doing. That which he had address to
the House, he stated in the discharge of his duty, and not with
a view to the offence of any man ; but he would state it most
fully and explicitly, and, the more, because both private and
public means had been employed to intimidate him from doing
so.—( H ear, hear !)—" That which 1 say," continued the Hon.
Member, " I can prove; and if it were necessary I ci -_..ld de-
velop some details which would perhaps surprise the House a
little."—(Hear, hear But .1 trust that at least—l don't
wish to use a coarse expression, but I scarcely know what other
term to use—l trust at least that we shall not allow ourselves to
be bullied, here, into measures which we do not approve."—
( Hear !)—The pretence on which these speculating companies
came before the House, was that they might have power, for the
general convenience, to sue by an individual, and be sued. But
this pretext was a miserable delusion ; what they really wanted
was, to be seen in communication with authority ; they wanted
to raise their shares in the markets, by having it understood
that what they published was done with the knowledge and with
the sanction of Government.--(Hear, hear !)—But he would
shortly state, for the information of the House, the regular
detail by which the original shareholders in companies like the
present were daily putting large sums into their own pockets.
The thing was done without the smallest risk, and almost
without any advance of real capital. Suppose, for instance, a
company projected, like the Pasco Mining Company ; that
there was to be 10,000 shares of 100/. each (making a capital of
one million), and that the original projectors were 50 in number.
The 50 projectors agreed at once to take all the shares among
themselves. Each took 200 shares, and paid a deposit of Si. on
each share, so advancing, in his whole proportion, I,OOW. Now
how did this operate ? Why, by management well understood
on the Stock hotchange, as soon as prospectuses were issued,
and people came to purchase stock, they were informed that the
51. shares had risen to 161.—(Blear, hear !)—Thus an original
projector sold only 66 of his 200 shares, and got 561. over his
cost price—having 134 shares to get what he could for, ,clear
profit on the transaction. And this was supposing a moderate
profit; in many cases the rise had not been from 1001. to 1111.
(on deposit 51. to 161.), but the 100/. shares had been resold at
6001., 700/., and even as high as 1,200/.—( Hear, hear !)
toeing almost immediately immense fortunes to the projectors,
without the slightest risk on their part. The puff's and adver-
tisements by which this system was supported weie absolutely
disgraceful ; so disgraceful, that he shoUld hardly expect belief
from the House, if' he'did not state them in their precise terms.
In the sirst prospectus issued, he found the folldwing state
ment :.—". It (meaning the company) has_already secured con-

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PitcE -vvENrr,&,r.

tracts for a -long term of yearefoe some valuable niitiesiseathe
celebrated heights of Paseo." Now, who were theas--con-
tracts secured with ? Why, with an Individual of tale name
of Quiros; who was an expatriated 'patriot at the very. date
when that prospectus. was iesue4, the !loyalists being stahat
time in_ possession of the whole territory -said to be conareeted
for.--(Hear, hear!)—Again : the same prospectus anateeettat
" all engagements for the payment of money on betntif of
the company" were to be made. in such a manner.*,;,. that
the liability of the shareholders should not, in mi:saes,
exceed tlit!t amount of the instalments remaining unpejal, on
their respective shares." Why this was not-only in the ,weirs
of the law, which already made every such shareholder lielsld is
the extent of his whole fortune, but the Bill absolutely beeright
into the House contradicted that whide regulation, and diabetes',
that it should not be lawful for the company to enter iato- any
contract limiting the liability of its shareholders. In the:Pro-
spectus, purchasers were told that they were not to he
and a Bill was brought into Parliament directly makisigettein
liable. Now, was not this a delusion ? People were to, buy
under one presumption, and to hold under another. Theli an.
Member then adverted to the opiiiion laid down by.;l4.llisf
Justice Abbott in the case of " Joseph to Pebrer,!assikecon-
tended that the Pasco Company came entirely under • theepre-
visions of the rubble Act. In the second prospectus 13840 -by
the Company, it was stated that " a contract for additional
mines in the district of Pasco having been entered intasan be-
half of this Company since the publication of the prospectus
the Directors deem it eipedient to submit to the Shareboisters
the following general outline of their new engageniensa:—lt
comprises upwards of 360 mines, each mine occupying.:SeStir-
face of about 1,800 square yards." Now he. would call r4e at-
tendon of the House to a small book, which was publiAlsed by
order of the Viceroy of Lima in 1796, in which was givens list
of the silver mines then worked. These were stated at 78sand
the number not worked was 21 ; making in the .svilidle
.99 mines in the district, and these belonged to seventy-tio
owners ; but in the face of this, the Directors - stated; that
they had contracts for the working of upwards of 360, which far
exceeded the whole number given in the official 'account as in
the whole province of Tannin According to the account quoted
from Humboldt, the mines of Pasco produced in the Year-71961
'27,514 marks of silver ; and in the year 1801, he gave their
produce at 237,435 marks; and he (Mr. H.) supposed it would
not be estimated at a greater amount If worked in the present
day. Yet surely that must have been a very small amount, if
there were so many mines at work as the company would have
the public believe. The directors, however, to meet this ob-
jection, quoted in their pamphlet an extract from the Lima
Gazette of 1821, in which allusion is made to 3,000 mines in.
the district. Mr. Caldcleugh stated, that there were 5,000 in.
habitants in the district ; so that it would appear that there was
just one man and a quarter to each mine.—(Hear!)—He knew
the object with which those things were stated, and what was
meant when all these mines were spoken of, to create an im-
pression that there were so many rich mines in existence. Ile
admitted there might be a great number of excavations or shafts
communicating with the mines, but he utterly denied that there
were so many mines in existence in that country.. The iotAler
was, that instead of 360, they did not mention 365, which
would just make a mine for every day in the year. It was
next stated, that there were in the vicinity of the .thines
" fields appropriated to the growth of barley." lases that pro'
bable ? was it probable that barley would grow at an
-eleva--
tion of thirteen thousand feet above the level of the sea,
-Where it was always freezing ? How was it, then, that all for-
mer miners employed in the country were entirely depending
for support on the maize sent to theist from Lima ? The state-
ment was on the face of it erroneous. But the matter was set
at rest by Mr. Calticleugh, who stated, that at an elevation
much lower than that of the mines, at the height of 12,300 feet,
he met with but one solitary minute The prospectus next,ent
on to say, " The owner has undertaken to convey the whole of
this property to the company,. either in perpetuity, or in-any
other manner which the laws of Peru iniehe reenae. ee- --at, -
gentleman ammeu to, Von Juan V was, had no right of (ailer-
ship. Neither he nor Mr. Quiros could convey any right of
ownership; one was an expatriated patriot, and the other an
exiled royalist, whose property had been put under sequesta:etion.
But it was said that this sequestration bad never been enforced;
but why had it not ?—Because, in fact, the mines had never
been worked since then. General San Martin was no autho-
rity ; for, on the contrary, he'himself had run away from the
country. But let Honourable Members refer to whit . was
stated by Captain Hall, and they would find a very dif-
ferent account of the transaction ; and it was more than
probable that the Government of the country, when they
came to have a settled government there, would reserve
the mines for the use of the State ; and it was already
intimated, that they were to be offered as a security for a loan
which was about to be contracted fin- by the Peruvian Govern-
ment here. The Directors next talked of the coals discovered
in the . neighbourhood. Humboldt never said a word of any
coals being there, but he (Mr. Hobhouse) would admit That
coal-mine had been recently discovered, yet it was much lower
down in tire tnountairn It would require great laboureta ex-
tract it, and then immense labtriar to take it up to the mines.
With respect to the statement of the Directors, " that the pre-
sent owner of this property stated that he had realized nearly
100,000 dollars per week for several successive. weeks froM one
single mine;" he would observe that it was a novel proceeding
to take account of the value of any thing from tile :But
the fact was differently stated in the Lima Gazette, to.wliieli
they so willingly referred. That described the produce 11,50,000
dollars, and that not front one, but from four mines; and Mr.
Vivas' property was valued at 400,000 dollars, which ;would
be beyond all proportion below its value, if it had picitinced
100,000 dollars per week. He would admit the account given
by Humboldt of the produce of those mines to he correct;
and that they would yield two millions of dollars a year; but
still, that would leave the company, who possessed only one
tenth of them, not :more .than 2(10,000 dollars, or about
40,0001., and from that the expence of working was, to be
deducted, which, when done, would leave those engaged in the
speculation hardly any remuneration for their labour.. The
Hon. Member, referring to his statement of a former evening,
that this attempt had been made before, and without success,
went on to describe the contract entered into in 1812 between
Messrs. Abadia, Arismendi, Uville, and some others, with the
owners of the mines, for draining and.afterwards working taiem
for a certain term of years. That was followed up by the send-
ing out of some steam-engines from England; which, afterseve-
ral years, were erected. The first effects of the working Or the
I engines had been hailed with transports by the Spanish iiithe-
rides, as calculated to produce the happiest results, which'; to
I use their own words, would " deluge the country with a tor-
rent of silver ;" but, notwithstanding all those great expecta-
tions, and all the assistance given by the local authorities, the
hopes entertained had never been realized.. The whole project
failed ; and the parties in. this country who had engaged -in It,
and sent out some machinery, could never get their contracts
Gratified, and he believed the whole of the Europeans who went
out to superintend and assist in the working the rairiettliecl,•
except one. He next proceeded to chew, that if any parties
could claim a property in these mines, it must be the creditors
and representatives of Abadia, Arismendi, and the ethers: A
claim of that kind had actually been'made, and their interest
was bid for on more than one occasion in the market. The
House might form some idea of the difficulties attending the
working these mines (supposing the title of the parties,was
good', when he stated, that it took 3,000 mules and 4,000
Indians to convey the two steam-engines from Calleb to
Pasco. The Government at the time put all those peiSple
in requisition to assist, but-that was an indulgence which, the
present company could not hope for. Let the House astinsi-
der what was the opinion of Mr. Helms, who went out to
that country by order of the Spanish Government-in 1789., And
they would see the impracticability of working them byl;:uro-
apbeoaunst
fid ef
tmy
.oani
xs t rl ea taegdu. e
,Tahu ed distancer
efrom 6 dPa
ya cs
too to ai
accomplishwas
journey up, and 13 down. The' objection founded upon the•
difficulty of travelling was attempted to be met by • " A Pasco
Shareholder," who stated that an officer in command'of• a
body of troops, performed the journey down in six days. 'That
might; perhaps, he true, but it did not meet the • general' ob-
jection. The difficulties of the journey, and the manner in
which parts of it were to be performed, were well describettin a
book which he held in his hand, and to which he would, refer
Hon. Members. Another difficulty with which the 'corriaiany •
would have to struggle would be that of the procuring-thi'-as-
' sistante of the Native Indians. These were no longer, lithked
upon as slaves, arid all future operations in. that -country,..,thust
rodt:t.yfr,eeanladbosouri.t
hers. the
labourers.l Jas it
should ulidexbiee°
profits of the. speculation ? •He had heard it -urged that-pain
be
oweenrcasei:iieareideddot wwn ohba'yt an immense drawback this would be ohathe
'had derived large revenues from the working ef those mines.
, He admitted she had, because GoVernment took its otstlfiftly
clorlaeriansa

at the gross produce, without any consideration of how many
neve ruined by the attempts at working them; but the House
-meld, he hoped, not allow persons in this country to be ruined
a similar manner. if the directors meant to act bonafide,
lei them go on for a year or two with these operations without
a Bill. Let them prove the thing practicable, and then he
-would have no objection to granting them the privilege of suing
Lai being sued in the name of their Secretary ; but at present
tie thought the Bill would only have the effect of keeping up
-what he considered a delusion. He would therefore move, as
au amendment, `tThat the Bill be read a second time that day
*ix months."
Mi. F. BUXTON said, that as some highly respected
Iviesels of his were connected with this company, he felt it his
-dim to take this early opportunity of doing justice to them, by
putting this question on its fair footing before the House. He
'mild admit a great deal of what the Hon. Member for West-
eillivater had said. He concurred with him fully, that if any
• set -of men, no matter who, associated themselves as a com-
lea* with intent to delude the public, they ought tobe held up
t.if public reprobation, and their proceedings ought to be arrest-
Ott. But was that the case here ? Had it been proved that any
mitt attempt had been made ? The Hon. Member had gone
i*o a variety,of topics which really had nothing to do with the
skrits of the Bill before them, and into which he would not
• fielkrw him. The question was that this was a delusive scheme,
• 44 was it a. bona fide and, practicable enterprise ? It had been
' tailed a deep-laid scheme; but the fact was, the opposition
441:ch was now made originated in a deep-laid scheme to de-
levees the market, and reduce the price of shares. When he
stid this, he of course fully acquitted the Hon. Member for
Westminster of any participation in, or a knowledge of, such
scheme. He admitted the Hon. Member's views to be most
ti Aright and honourable ; but he could not refrain from express-
ing his conviction that the calumnies which had been heaped
upon this company, and the misinformation which had been
impressed on the Honourable Member's mind, with respect to
the company, originated in a scheme to reduce the price of
shares ; and if it was unfair to raise them by improper means on
one hand, (but he did not admit that this was the case with the
company), it was also unfair to depress them by calumnies on the
other.—(Hear, hear !)—lt was alleged that this scheme was im-
practicable—that it was visionary—and that no such mines ex-
isted. Now let the House refer to what had been said with re-
spect to the mines by that illustrious traveller Humboldt. He
stated, " The mines of Pasco, which are worse worked than
any other in Spanish America, were first discovered by the In-
dian Huari Cupca in Itl3o. They yield annually nearly two
millions of dollars. In order to form a just idea of the enormous
mass of silver which nature has deposited in the bosom of these
Calcareous mountains, at the height of more than 4,000 metres
above the level of the ocean, it should be remembered that the
bed of argenti-ferous oxide of iron in Gauricocha has been work-
ed without interruption from the commencement of the 17th
century, and that during the last 20 years more than 5,000,000
marks of silver, (equal to 40,000,000) have been extracted."—
Would this statement of Humboldt's be also called delusive ?
But the fact did not rest or. the authority of Humboldt alone.
It was confirmed by several able and intelligent travellers,
and was stated with a confidence of its truth by the intelli-
gent gentleman who was secretary to the Mexican embassy.
He would, in corroboration of the statement, read an extract of
a letter written by the son of the Hon. Member for Southwark
(Sir R. Wilson), who was at present aid-de-camp to General
Bolivar, and with him in that country. In that letter, he says,
" It is very surprising to me, but nevertheless it is strictly true,
that silver is in such plenty that the meanest utensils are made
of that metal.—( Hear !). I could for a few knives, or other ar-
• ticks of iron work, procure several pounds of it ; but this abun-
dance is comparatively of little value, in consequence of the dif-
ficulty of conveyance."—( Hear, hear !)—He read this extract by
permission of the Hon. Member for Southwark, who at the same
t:me requested him to state to the House that lie was in no way
connected with any of those mining companies, and had never
speculated in them. This statement, then, so fully corrobora-
tive of what had been already mentioned by Humboldt, could
leave no doubt on the mind of any man of the great abundance
•of silver in those countries. In addition to these, he had the tes-
timony of an officer who commanded a part of the independent
troops in 1821, that silver was extracted in large quantities at that
time by means of the steam-engines sent out from England. It
was farther proved that there had been discovered, within a short
distance of the mines, a valuable coal-pit, which afforded abund-
ant fuel for all the purposes of mining. The Hon. Member for West-
minister had spoken of this as if it were a considerable distance
from the mines; but the fact was, and he had it from one who
was on the spot, that it was not more distant than a league from
the mines. 'With such advantages, then, how could the com-
pany be called a delusion ; but it seemed that the Company
had not a good title. He had seen the documents on which
that title was founded, and he had not the slightest doubt that
it was one which would be recognized by the Government of
Peru. He did not think the lion. Member for Westminster
dealt fairly with the Company, in the interpretation which he
Bete Li) e Lucie uy tt umcca, alau-sge Limit wit/ ilalirca anti in
such manner that the liability of the shareholders shall not in
any case exceed the amount of the instalments remaining un-
paid on their respective shares." Now, he thought that the
fair and natural interpretation of that was, that the engagements
would be conducted with such attention and economy, that the
shareholders would be protected from the risk of being called
- for any thing beyond the amount of their instalments.—
Having thus said a word on one side of the question, he
would call the attention of the House to another, and would
give them some information as to the cause of all the calum-
mies which in public and in private had been circulated against
this Company. When it was first established, a person named
Dubois wished to be concerned in it, and to obtain some
shares; but the Directors, for reasons which it was unne-
cessary for him to state, refused to have any connec-
tion with that person. Immediately after, they were at-
tacked, their intentions grossly misrepresented, and their object
ties:cribed to be nothing but a delusion on the public for the
purpose of putting money into their own pockets. Yet after
this, the same Mr. Dubois came to some of the directors a few
days ago, and, in the presence of two or three respectable indi-
viduals, one of whom was an officer of rank, said " I am the
itx.hor of all the- attacks which have appeared against you. I
have originated and given circulation to the reports which hare
been spread to your disadvantage; hut if you will allow me 20
shares, I will go and recant all I have hitherto said. I will tell
tee. whole truth, and be the means of raising the shares in the
market 20 per cent."—( Hear, hear !)—This offer was very pro..
perly rejected with indignation ;—( Hear !)—bu t notwithstanding
that, he came yesterday morning, anti repeated the application,
lowering his demand to ten shares.--(Hear!)—This was also
Plused ; and of course the company were to expect a continu-
!ttice of that person's hostility. But would the House, by re-
jecting the Bill before them, sanction such a base attempt as
thls ?—(Hear!)—lle trusted they would not; but, by giving,
leave to have the Bill sent to a Committee, give the company
art opportunity of showing the fallacy of the statements
which had been circulated against them. Ile would not trouble
the House by following in detail the Hon. Member's lengthened
ir,atements about mules and mulattoes, and the other topics he
had introduced which were really wide of the merits of the
question. He would say to the Hon. Member, " Let the Bill
go to a COmmittee, and if you can there prove any of the at-
te,-npts at fraud or delusion to which you have adverted, you
may rest assured that I will not he the man to screen any par-
ties who may be found guilty of any such attempt."—(Hear,
hear 1)—It was only in the Committee that the merits of the
whole plan could be fully entered into. Upon these merits he
was ready to meet the Hon. Member; and he would undertake
to prove, to the satisfaction of the Committee, that the person
he had named was the author of all the calumnies which had
been circulated against the cempatty, and he would dearly
establish the base objects for which they had been invented.—.
(gear ! )

Mr. 1,1. GURNEY said, the object of the Bill before the
Ikuse was only to have the privilege of suing and being sued
inthe name of their secretary, and on such a question he thought
it was hardly fair to go into such details as had been stated.
The Committee was the place where, if such details were at all
necessary, they ought to be given, because there alone they
could be answered. The privilege now sought for had been
granted to other Companies, and he saw no reason why it should
be withheld from this. If; however, any could be assigned, let
it be in the Committee.

T. WILSON said, that as he had been consulted on
ti,is Bill and connected with its introduction, he could not avoid
safir.,g, a few words. When he first heard of the Bill, he was.
not aware, nor could he suspect, that any thing unfair was
meant by it ; and if be thought so, be would be the last man to
support it. He had examined the objections urged by the Hon.
Member, and put by others out of doors, and he could state his
perfect conviction that they were unfounded. He thought the
charge which the Hon. Member made respecting the whole of
the shares being divided among 25 or 50 persons was most un-
gracious. The fact was, that a very large portion of the shares
when they came out were distributed among the public to
those who had applied for them by themselves or their friends.
Ile had written for some, believing, as still he did, that the
speculation would be a profitable mode of employing capital,
aad the directors set his name down for five, so that`his interest j
wail but very small in the concern. The'directors reserved 100
each for theMselves ; so that, if it was a delusion, it was on
themselves and not on the public. They were the persons who
were likely to suffer most, for their loss would eventually be
great. As to the critique which the Hon. Member had made
upon that part of the directors' statements," that they conceiv-
ed they should have been justified in establishing a company
for working mines in Peru, even' if they had not, at the time
of farming such company, secured a contract for a single mine,
he thought it wsee not very candid or liberal. Hp conceived the
.liroctars would have been fully justified in forming a company •

without a contract for asingle mine. Why, there was already
a most respectable company formed in London, who were now
about to send out persons to Mexico, for the purpose of con-
tracting for the working of mines there, and they had been
formed without'having.possession of asinqle mine. The com-
pany had, 'he thought, been treated disingenuously. The
Hon. Member, on a former occasion, had accused them of at-
tempting that which was utterly impracticable.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said, if he were represented to have so
said, he must have been misunderstood. What he said was,
that former speculations with the same object had failed.
Mr. WILSON continued.— He certainly had so understood
the Hon. Member from the account which appeared of what he
had said. There was only one objection which the Hon. Mem-
ber had urged which had any weight with him. It was, that
the climate was so very unhealthy : but let it be recollected,
that it was not intended to send out whole corps of English
miners to work those mines. They would still be worked by
the native's, but under the direction and superintendence of a
few English miners, who wertld carry with them that skill and
knowledge of system on which mines might be worked to the
greatest advantage, in which the native miners were so deficient.
Looking at all the circumstances, he felt convinced that this
was a fair and bona fide speculation for the purpose of working
the mines, and that it would be pursued with advantage ; and
he could mention the names of most respectable individuals
well acquainted with mining transactions, and who were in no
way connected with the directors of the company, who had pur-
chased 100 shares, which they still retained, as believing it a
very advantageous mode of investing capital.
Sir F: BURDETT said, that the fact that persons were first
led to enter into this company by being told that they would
only be liable to the amount of their shares, and that they were
afterwards informed that their responsibility would extend to
the whole of their fortunes, was a sufficient reason to induce
the House to throw out this Bill. It appeared to him that of
all the projects which he had ever heard or read of, this scheme
most deserved the name of a bubble. He believed that the di-
rectors were honest dupes to the information which had been
transmitted to them ; but he thought that on that account, as
much as any other, the House was bound to interfere and pro-
tect them from the consequencos of their own credulity.
Mr. LOCKHART stated, that if the House gave to this
country the power of suing and being sued by their secretary,
it would go out to the public that the project itself had met
with its approbation; They could not be too cautious how they
invested any company with such a privilege. He desired them
to remember, that if schemes like the present should end in
ruining the fortunes of private individuals, Members would
not only have to bear in their collective capacity the blame
or want of judgment, but also in their private capacity the
blame of having leagued together to promote their private in-
terests.
Mr. BARING commenced his observations by declaring that
he had no interest in the fate of this Bill either one way or the
other. As long
.as his Hon. Friend the Member for Westminster
confined himself to general remarks upon the gaming specula-
tions which were now so prevalent, he fully concurred with
him in every thing he had said ; but as soon as he began to ap-
ply his observations to this particular case, he was obliged to
express his dissent from him. It was deplorable to see the
gambling mania that was at present abroad ; it had seized upon
all classes, and was spreading itself in all parts of the country.—
If it was to be lamented that men of the first rank and family
in the country haunted gaming-houses at the west end of the
town, it was still more to be lamented that merchants at the
east-end of it should imitate their example, and make a gaming-
house of the Royal Exchange. He saw no difference between
the gambling of the nobleman in the hells of St. James's-street,
and the gambling of the merchant on the Royal Exchange,
except that the latter kept earlier hours and more respectable
company than the former.—( Hear !)—The evil was certainly
one which deserved to be checked, though he hardly knew how
the check could be applied. The remedy would be worse than
the disease, if, in putting a stop to this evil, they put a stop to
the spirit of enterprise. That spirit was productive of so much
benefit to the community, that he should be sorry to see any
person drawing a line discriminating between fair enterprise
and extravagant speculation. Nothing that had fallen from the
Hon. Member for Westminster had induced him to think that
it would be impreper to read this Bill a second time. He be-
lieved that all the mining speculations would turn out to be
delusions, and that many innocent persons, who had embarked
their little capital in them, with the expectation of realizing
large fortunes, would be awakened some day unpleasantly
from their dreams of grandeur, by the intelligence that their
all was lost. The great mistake under which the uninformed
part of the public laboured was this—tt.at their interference in
the Spanish mines would render them much more productive
than they had formerly been. He believed that the skill with
which those mines were worked was little understood by the
public. Under the Austrian Government, heavy and stupid
as it was, the gold mines of Hungary were worked with a
science atidskill which could not be exceeded. The same, he
f .1.4 S sb n easesicitl-aHnV•wegctirtz 'ni
which they were going to engage. At the same time that he
said this, he thought it only right to add, that no mining
scheme which he had seen made a better show upon paper
than this Pasco-Peruvian scheme. He thought that the failure
to work. them in the year 1814 was attributable more to the
disturbed and agitated state of the country than to the im-
practicability of rendering them available. He could have
wished that the President of the Board of Trade had taken the
subject of Acts like the present into his consideration, and had
come down to the House prepared to recommend one general
rule to be applied to the whole of them. He did not see any
reason why the House should pass all these bills for creat-
ing joint stock comlianies without examination. Ile thought,
however, that as they had passed so many without discussion,
they would be acting unjustly it' they made a stand unon the
present Bill, and said, "we will stop here." It was ridiculous
to see the objects for which joint stock companies were forming
every day. We heard first of a Milk Company—then of a
Bread Company—then of a Brick-bat Company, and last of all
a Lime tlompany, which was to have a joint stock of 159,0002.,
to work 11 acres of chalk. What to do with these companies
he knew not ; but that something should be done was quite in-
dispensable. On the first day of the Session, a person of great
influence in the Cabinet had given notice that he would apply
his mind to the invention of a remedy for this evil; but he was
afraid that the remedy would be matter of doubt with the per-
sonage to whom he alluded, until the diseasehad either carried
off the patient, or had been cured by the effort of nature. He
trusted that before long some general rule would be brought
forward applicable to all cases like the present, and that the
House would not he called upon to specialize in each particular
instance. He should support the second reading of the Bill.
Mr. CA LC RA FT said that the argument of his Hon. Friend,
that they were to sanction this Bill which they had investigated,
because they had sanctioned other Bills which they had not, was
so inevisistent with common sense, as to need no other refuta-
tion than the mere repetition of it. his Hon. Friend's speech
in support of the Bill would do more titan the speeches of many
gentlemen against it to throw cold water upon the speculations
of this company. He considered all bills of this nature in the
light of a bonus to the share-holders. They were often brought
into Parliament for no other reason than to increase the price
of shares in the market. If this company were really sincere
in their intention of prosecuting the design they had an-
nounced, they could do it as well without a bill as with it.—
He believed, however, that the parties most interested in it only
wanted to sell their shares, and either cared not a straw about
the mines, or were willing to leave it to others to work
them. He considered this speculation to be rather a spe-
cimen • f Parliamentary mining than of commerce. He
thought the Honourable Member for Westminster had made
out a case which ought to convince Parliament that it would
be doing wrong in sanctioning this measure He recommended
that trade should be left to its natural and legitimate course,
instead of being bolstered up by so many artificial projects as
were at present in existence. He was sorry to see, from a list
that had been published, that more than 28 Members of Par-
liament were either chairman or directors of more than three
associations each. He thought that such associations would not
add either to the wealth, or to the interest, or to the honour of
the nation; and of the many schemes which they had put
forth, he thought that the Pasco Peruvian mining scheme was
by far the most ituktsive. •

-Mr. E. ELLICE said, that in the first prospectus which
this company issued, the projectors had placed his name
amongst those of the directors, without making any pre-
vious communication to him of their design. He had,
however, desired it to be withdrawn, as he did not consi-
der the speculation a prudent one. His reason for so think-
ing was, that it was proposed to take mines in a country
which had no settled government, and where it was uncer-
tain whether a new law or the (V Spanish law would prevail
regarding mining contracts. In Mexico and Columbia the case
was somewhat different. New fiovernments hail been framed,
and new laws had been -formed, abrogating the old ones re-
pecting mining-contracts. In the latter case the law was settled
and definite-; in the former, liable to change and indefinite.
Under these circumstances, as he did not think the scheme a
prudent one, he desired that leis name as a director should be
withdrawn, lest it should lead some pertsn into the scheme,
who would not otherwise have jc:ned in it. He trusted that his
Hon. Friend; the Member for Westminster, would withdraw
his oppositiort to the Bill in its present stage, in order to give
those Who were interested in it means of contradicting his
statements if they could. All the other companies had been
allowed to proceed upon the same machinery Which this Bill
asked for. •He could say; from a personal knowledge of the
characters of the directors of this company; that they would-1
be the last men in the world to lend their support to that
which they believed to.be a delusion. In cansequencehe con-
demned the spirit of gambling that was now abroad. There

might be great prizes in the lottery which was thus opened
but none sufficiently great to compensate for the credulity of the
public.
Mr. ATT WOOD made some observations upon the Bill,
which were utterly inauditilein the gallery. _
Mr. BA RI NG explained.
Mr. ROBERTSON thought that the House ought to make
a stand against these bills, not so much on account of the par-
ticular speculation( as to discountenance the general delusion
which prevailed upon the subject of those mining speculations.
Equally great was the delusion of steam-engines, as applicable
to these mines, for in the neighbourhood where they were to be
worked, there was no fuel for that purpose. It ought to be
known that there had always been upheld a school for mines in
Mexico, and that professors from all quarters of the world had
been encouraged there, for the diftbsion of practical mining
information—the Germans, in particular, had been so occupied :
how, then, could this rush of English capital be said to give a
new feature to this speculation in the way of eventual profit ?
—lle thought it was quite a delusion, and that British capital
must be wasted in the pursuit, whilst the Mexicans, who re-
tained the major shares, would retain the principal profits.—
He regretted that no member of his Majesty's Government was
in his place to discountenance such unwise projects.
Mr. Alderman BRIDGES wished to correct the Hon. Mem-
ber in that part of his statement, in which he described the
neighbourhood of tire mines as being deficient in fuel for work-
ing steam-engines, for he knew that in the vicinity of the Real
del Monte, there was an abundance of fuel for that purpose.—
He also relied upon the knowledge and honour of the directors
of this company, that they were not encotiragin" a rash spe-
culation ; on the contrary, lie knew that several of the share-
holders, so far from feeling they were engaged in a hazard-
ous pursuit, would not now sell their shares at double the mar-
ket-price.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said, that he had applied his observa-
tions, not so much to the individual speculators, as to the spe-
culation itself: he should not, however, press his amendment
to a division.

The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be corn.
mitred.

Mr. LAMB'rON, in the absence of his Hon. and Learned
Friend (Mr. Denman), presented a petition from the inhabi-
tants of the Cove of Cork, in favour of the Catholic Asso-
ciation.

Mr. BRIGHT obtained leave to bring in a bill to revive
and make perpetual the Act of the 57th of Geo. 111., c. 101,
for preventing vexatious arrests for Small Debts.
Mr. HORACE TWISS moved the second reading of the
Assessors at Elections Bill.

Mr. ELLICE suggested the propriety of postponing the.
second reading until the blaults were tilled up.
Mr. TWISS replied, that this could only be done in the Com-
mittee.

After a few words from Lord PALMERSTON, Mr. BRIGHT,
and Air. HUME, the second reading of the Bill was postponed
until after Easter.

The Alarine Mutiny Rill was read a third time.
The Report of the Annual Duties Bill was received and
agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-
morrow.—The !louse then adjourned.

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mercurii, 16° die Martii, 1825.

ComPANIEs-Metropolitan Waterworks-Petitions from Go-
d vernors g
aoifn Is s
rpei
ft:
rl
rse,
rco.
thane
ed
Committeero Priesptorooam ps ead Wa-
ters,nf
g
ordered. London Water-Petition of Proprietors of Hamp_
stead Waters, against-referred to the Committee on the
Bill, Counsel ordered. - Equitable Loan Bank-Petitions
from St. Giles (Cripplegate), St. Andrew (Holborn), St. Bo-
y froml ph
Mile(B is oopds garantde )
s, t
capnnde t
B. Diary-dlsee.
Bermondsey,
nsep,
taagia.fiai nesi
dt
m;
and
da
Cordwainers of London, in favour, to lie on the table. Me-
tropolitan Fish-Petitions from Greenwich, Gravesend, Dept-
ford, and Barking, against-referred to the Committee on the
Bill, Counsel ordered. London and Westminster Oil Gas-
Petition of Trustees of New North Road, against-referred
to the Coniniittee on the Bill, Counsel ordered. Imperial
Continental Gas-Bill read a third time, and passed. Peru.
vian read a second time, and committed. Lon-
don Brick, and Steam Navigation-Petitions for leave to
present Petitions for Bills referred to Committees.
DOCKS—St. KatharillC'S—Petitions from St. Katharine's, Rat-
- cliffe Gas Light Company, and Frederick Woodbridge.,
against-referred to the Committee on the Bill, Counsel or-
dered. South London-. Petition of Governors of Christ
Church and Ilathlem Ilospitals, against-4eferred to the
gkiarairrlicAstey and POntefract,
and Ardglass,-Bills ordered. Bramcote Oddhouse, Stock-
port, and Stockton and Barnard Castle-Bills reported, to
be ingrossed. Cockermouth, Kingston-upon-Hull and Fer-
riby, Kensington, and Woodstock, &c.-Bills read a first
time. North (Fleet Market)_Report on Petition for Bill
referred to the Select Conlin ittge on Standing Orders. 'ROSS-
shire-Petition of Sir G. Steuart Mackenzie, against-to lie
on the table. Huddersfield and New Hey-Petitions,
against-referred to the Committee on the Bill, Counsel or-
dered.iron xs-,Oldham
THAMES QUAY
TII EAT RE-Cheltenham
ltiCLOStritr.--Clanfield (Oxford) f
WATE It-Edinburgh . and Leith. J
RAILWAYS-Liverpool and Manchester-Committee revived ;
to sit again on Monday next. Dyffryh Llynvi, and Llan-
llyfin and Carnarvon- .ordered. East London-Peti-
tions of East India Dock Company, in favour, and Owners of
Lands near the Commercial Road, complaining that Stand-
ing Orders have .not been complied with-to lie on the table;
Petitions of Trustees of Cornmercig Road, against-referred
to the Committee on the B 11, Counsel ordered. Dublin and
Kingstown (Petition from Blackrock and Williamstown
(Dublin), in favour, to lie on the table)-Bill read a second
time,• and committed. Birmingham and Liverpool-Peti-
tion from Port of Galway, in favour-to lie on the table.
MARKETS -- TiVertoll
(h LlGllT—Boston
TITHES.-

Bills read a first time.

aEs—St. Olave (Ilart-street) 1.
BRISTOL TOWN DUES Bills ordered.
CHURCH—Chelsea
Pooh RATEs—lienley-upon-Tharnes
MANUFACTORIES—IreIand
IMPROVEMENTS—MaccIesfieId—Bill Ordered. Stourbridge—
• Bill reported, to be ingrossed. Beverley—Petition for Bill
referred to a Committee..
NATUIIALIZATION—Manbert's
MUTINY'

31Antrin MITTINY . passed.
CANAL—Western Ship—Petition-from Sidmouth, in favour—
to lie on the table.
DRAINAGE— Eau Brink—Petition from Bedford Level, com-
plaining that Standing orders have not been complied with,
referred to the Committee on the Bill. •
NavtGATlON—Stour—Petition of Governors of Bethlehem
Hospital, against—referred to the Committee on the Bill,
Counsel ordered. Baybridge—Bill ordered.
HARROUn—Littlehamyton,Petition of Trustees of Ferry over
the River Arun, agamst—refered to the Committee on the
Bill, ..Counsel ordered.

Bills read a third time.

SEWERS BiLL—Petition of-N. Stanwood, against—to lie on
the table.
ARREARS OF DEBT—Bill to revive, and make perpetual,
Act 57 Geo. 3, c. 101, ordered.
u lES—Bill, as amended, to be printed.

NOTICES OF MOTIONS FOR THIS DAY.
1. Mr. Wynn—Bill for regulating the transportation of Of-
fenders from St. Helena.
2. Mr. Hurne—Return of all persons in Holy Orders holding
Offices in Borough Corporations, and other Civil Offices.
Number of Parishes in Ireland where Composition fbr
Tithes has taken place under late Acts, and Return of the
number of Suits.for Tithes in the last three years. Re-
. turn of the dates of the Accounts of Military Paymasters
and others, in arrear before 1798, and not settled. Return
cf the quantity of Wine in bond, and in the hands of
dealers, on 28th February last.
ORDERS OF THE DAY FOR THIS DAY.
1. Impounding Distresses (Ireland) Bill—Second reading.
2. Caledunian Canal Bill—Committee.
3. Annual Duties Bill—Third reading. - •
4. Salaries to Judges in India,. and to Bishop of Calcutta—
Committee thereupon.
NOTICE GIVEN YESTERDAY.
Wednesday, March 23. .
Sir John Newport—Bill to limit the power of holding a phi-
ralit3, of Benefices, and to repeal the Statutes granting to
the Archbishops and Bishops the power of forming Epis-
copal Unions in Ireland..

WINES• AND SPIRITS,.—The total number of
casks of wine bonded, in the London Docks during the years
1823 and 1824 was 100,141 ; the number remaining in bond on
the sth of January last was 4.1,0110'. The number of casks of
spirits bonded during that time was 32,499; and the number in
bond on the sth January, 13,598.

:
...-
,e• • ,
o A 114" ,
'------N.I.
v ~./.3c„,..
~.4.
-- - -
-.7.% '..
---L''.f.
V 1;% .111 *
'''

MASONIC NOTICES FOR NEXT WEEK.
ENGLAND.
Monday, March 21, LONDON. Nos. 1,8, 14, 15, 22, 104,
284, 293, 308.
COUNTRY. N 05.20, 72, 102, 219, 311,
368, 423, 509, 510, 521,
583.
- 22, LONDON. No. 349.
Cotrwr ItY. Nos. 38, 67, 145, 427.
Wednesday, -23, LONDON. No. 2.
COUNTRY. Nos. 84, 215, 314. 414,
440, 442, 478, 548, 661.
Thursday, - 24, LONDON. Nos. 82, 142, 156, 216,
481. House Com. Fern.
Sch. at 11.
COUNTRY. Nos. 153, 178, 243, 269.
- 25, LONDON. No. 239.
COUNTRY. Nos. 53, 236, '283.
- 26, LONDON. • *-
COUNTRY. Nos. 412, 492.

Tuesday,

Friday,

Saturday,