The Sun.
London, England, 1825-02-04 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAK ERtOok the Chair ;thalf-past two o'clock, and
at a quarter to three the Commons were summoned to the
House of Lords to hear his Majesty's Speech delivered by
Commission, on the opening of the present Session
number of
i of Parlia-
ment. The Speaker, attended by a considerable
Members, immediately proceeded to the House of Lords.
NEW WRITS.
On his return, at a quarter to four o'clock, the SPEAKER
in pursuance t
the
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warrantsal t he Ht
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Clerk
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rested to Rieke out new writs for Members to serve in Parliament for
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borough
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Cambridge,S iirnW.
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M. Cheere, Esq. deceased.
On
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be issued of NG
serveT 0 Ni
n Parliament , newa writsm e n t
county of Donegal, in the room of Lord Mountcharles, de..
ceased, and for the borough of Newton, in Lancashire, in the
room of T. Claughton, Esq. deceased.
On 'the motion of Mr. Secretary CANNING, the Clandes-
tine
Outlawry Bill was, according to the usual form, read a
first and second time.
' THE KING'S SPEECH. •
The SPEAKER then acquainted the House that, he had
heard his Majesty's Speech on the opening of the present
Session
of Parliament, delivered by Commission in the House
of Peers, of which, to prevent mistakes, he had procured a
Lord F. L. LEVESON GOWER rose to move an address
of thanks for the gracious Speech which the House had just
heard. He began by observing, that there were periods in the
career of every country, when the national prosperity was raised
so high, or depressed so low, that only one general sensation
respecting it pervaded every class of the community, when
feelings not to be removed by arguments possessed every bosom,
and when even the uninitiated, as well as those who had the
means of the highest information, held the same opinion as to
the condition in which he had now the honour of addressing the
House, and, placing himself as one of uninitiated he had just
mentioned, he viewed the situation of the country in that light,
that he thought he could anticipate the general concurrence of
the House in the sentiments contained in his Majesty's Speech
with respectto its prosperity. He was glad to find that on this
occasion he was precluded from the necessity of entering into de-
tails with respect to particular branches of our sources of wealth.
At some periods one class of the community was particularly de-
pressed below the others. At such times it was the duty of a Mem-
ber of Parliament to enter into particulars, and to point out the
causes of the evil and the nature of theremedy. Now, however,
that was fortunately-rendered unnecessary, and the only diffictlitY
was which class of the community to describe as most prosperous.,
Agriculture, commerce, and miumfactures, each in their dif-
ferent sphere, wore in that progress of improvement calculated
to realize the hopes and wishes of the most sanguine lover of
his country. IVith the distresses of several classes, which some.
time ago existed, but were now no more, their natural conco-

mitants, dissaffection and distutbanee, had also disappeared.—
Those who had been led astray by the difficulties of their con-
dition and the evil advice and example of others, had long ago
returned to the paths of duty and obedience to the laws. A
few ill-disposed might, perhaps, still walk the land, but they
walked it despised or unnoticed : the spark might still exist,
but the fuel was wanted on which that spark could fall. In
turning his view from England to the condition of other por- •
tions of the United Kingdom, he saw, in their geographical
difference, nothing to alter his opinion of the general prospe-
rity. if he looked to Wales, to Scotland, and he was happy to • •
add, to Ireland, the prospect was still cheering. With respect
to the latter country, that prospect was every day becoming bet-
ter. The House had for some time been listening to descrip-
tions of the evils which afflicted that country ; but these had
now, for the greater part, disappeared. British enterprise was
entering Ireland. British capital was• insinuating its salutary
juices into the veins of that country, with a prospect held out
of its producing the most salutary results;. and there was now
a hope, that the tide of affluence which had hem .so long
flowing upon Great Britain, would' at last set' towards Ire-
land. He had as yet avoided every topic upon which any
difference of feeling could exist in the House, but there were .
subjects on which he did not feel himself at liberty -to be silent :
and however disagreeable to others it might he to., totich.on such
matters, he could assure them it was not very pleasing to him-
self. If there were any gentlemen who thought that the evils
which affected Ireland could be remedied by. the proceedings
of the Catholic Association, he could. not hope to convince them
to the contrary by any language that lie could use; but-as a
friend to the question of Catholic emancipatimi (which some
persons nowlooked upon as the panacea for all Irish evils) he felt
bound to say a word upon it. He had paid some attention to the •
proceedings of that body. He could not say that he felt a con-
tempt for them, though lie believed the extent. of their power
was greatly exaggerated ; but looking at the nature of those
proceedings, and feeling anxious for the success of the general
measure to which they referred, he had the most ardent desire
fcr its annihilation. No man, who looked at the conduct of the
principal members of that body, would be disposed to envy
them the station they had acquired in public opinion. Perhaps
one might grudge the gentlemen the graceful diction and fer-
tility of imagination by which they were distinguished ; but
the evils which they were likely to produce to the country would
be ill compensated by speeches of flawing eloquence and rounded '
periods. The acerbity or public feeling which must be gene--
rated by such orations from either party,.were obvious ; and
that would be increased by either party continuing to act as an"
organized body. As a friend to Ireland, he-did hope that the
violence of the Catholic AssociatiOn On the •one side, and the
ravings of Orange insanity on the-other; would no longer be
allowed to continue as obstacles to the tranquillity of that coun-
try. Their effects were already too much felt by many in Ire-
land. Some persons were disposed to seize every phantom
which presented itself to their minds, and exaggerate it to the
highest state of disorder ; and though they admitted that some
rents were paid, and that some gentlemen could lie down at
night with the hope of rising in the Morning` without injury,
they still would have it believed that Ireland was in the highest
state of insubordination and disorder. He, however, was far
from thinking that any such danger existed. He •could state
that any information received by his Majesty's Ministers On
the subject would not lead to that conclusion. It was how-
ever said, that the army was increased, and that-was, amongst
other things, alleged as a proof of the disturbed state of Ire
land. This conclusion was, however, as erroneous as the
former. The mention of the intended increase of the militant
force of the country brought him to another part of his Ma-
jesty's Speech. He had in the outset made himself the organ
of congratulation to the House on the general tranquillity Ewa,
prosperity of the country ; but it was well understood, that even
while the great trunk of the empire continued in. a. flourish-
ing and healthy state, some branches at its extremity might
be in a very different condition. In India; a considerable
body of our regular troops had been called into active operation
by the invasion of a barbarous force, which it was found•
necessary to repress. This happened at a time when arrange-
ments were made to change the stations of several regiments, so
that it was of importance that their places should be speedily
supplied. In looking at this increase, however, it was consola-
tory to think that it would not add to the burdens of the country,
as India would pay her own defenders. But, independently of
the circumstances which had occurred in India, a view of our
situation with respect to several parts of Europe would show
that the addition to our military force was not uncalled for. A
war was raging in the vicinity of the Mediterranean, which,
without imitating other states by supporting large standing ar-
mies, would justify us in keeping up a greater force in our
possessions on that sea than would be barely sufficient to supply
the garrison at Gibraltar, or to mount guard at Malta or Corfu'
—(Hear, hear !).---The necessity of keeping up a force at Ca-
nada might also be considered as a ground for this increase in '
our armed force. In the days of our national distress, his, -'
Majesty's Ministers had felt the necessity of paring down the
expences of the country to the lowest scale by which the public •
service could be supported ; but now that the country was in a
condition to bear the additional expence, and that the situation
of several parts of the empire required the increase in our
military force, it could not be fairly opposed. He had:
he thought, shown its necessity on local, . but- "
might also be apparent on general, grounds. That in
the intended addition to the armed force of. the king-
dom, His Al•tjesty did not anticipate any interruption of the
amicable relations which subsisted between him and the
other European Powers, must be so plain, that he who ran
might read ; but still that increase was rendered necessary bY`.
the altered state of Europe at present,- from -what it' was no',,
very long ago. He must, indeed, be a bold politician who
would attempt to predict the result of the present state of a"
fairs : but as that could not be with any certainty foreseen/ .
it would be imprudent to be altogether unprepared for some '
of its possible consequences. The House .world learn Witt'
pleasure, that England had concluded her mediation between
Russia-and Turkey, and that successfully, and to the satis-
faction of both parties. They would-also -.hear, with gratis'
cation, of the steps which were in progress. for the more effeel
tual suppression of the slave-trade. He lamented that any ob-
stacle should have occurred to `delay the.final ratification of the
treaty which had been-lately entered into with America on this
subject. - Of these obstacles he did not complain because they
could not be remedied, anti aroseout of the nature of the Amer''
can form of Government. The papers containing the neogotia:
tions on this subject would be laid before the House, and the'
would see the nature of the obstacles which had arisen. It tvoull
appear that a treaty which had been ratified by his Majesty,
been sent bank with alteratons, and not in minor points, bit
one which
.was most important, as it referred to the recognition
of the right of search-tea point which had been suggested by
America herself. This delay arose out of the form of the Am!,'
rican Government rendering it necessary that a treaty, ratified
by one party, and exchanged, should be afterwards submitted
to the ratification of another. His Majesty's Ministers did, 09
this occasion' that which wis highly honourable to themselves' I
They offered to cancel the former treaty, and to make a ne,"l
one on the basis of that which had been returned, adopting ale
its alterations, except that one which referred- to the right, 0`
search; and it was to be hoped that the negotiations pendng
on the question would arrive at a speedy and satisfactory col'
elusion. He now came to a part ofthe Speech which he had 1).4
doubt would be received with unmixed gratification by t"„
House. It was that in which His Majesty's intention to enter
into commercial relations with those South American Province,"
which had established their independence, was announce
—(Hear, hear !)—lt was unnecessary, in addressing tiwo
representatives of the first trading people in the world,
point out the advantages of such relations: Without the':
in the present improved state of the South Amerien"
States, the merchant who traded with them must become an
adventurer, and commerce itself be turned into speculation,'
In coming to this decision, deep deliberation was necessary'
No one could be surprised that Government finally adopted :
course of policy which arose out of the altered condition of th
provinces, and had become necessary to the new situation r
which we stood with respect to them; but, as he had alreatli`,
observed, the most serious consideration was required befoe
that course was pursued. It would be unnecessary to state,
that it never was the intention of Great Britain to interfere be'
tween the colonies and the mother country. At a time when a.
strong disposition existed in England to fit out armaments fa.'
the assistance of the Spanish colonies (a disposition by whiclh
he believed, they were eventually benefitted), a bill was intro-
duced for the purpose of more fully declaring the neutrality °
the British Government, and for preventing, as much as 101
sible, British subjects from engaging in it. That bill excite':
very great opposition, but was eventually carried •, but At tt
time it was passed, all the events which have since happened in
that country were foreseen, and the consequences calculated with
mathematical accuracy ; and it was anticipated, though it won";
not be right at that period for this country to lake 07
part in the struggle, 3ret that the time would come will
the relative situation of both parties would be altered, iln„,
a different policy pursued. These were the grounds u"
which the Government had acted. Every information
which was sought and could be given on the subject.;
was readily afforded by his Majesty's Ministers ; but 0"
all occasions, the determination to act with impartiality hel
tween the contending parties was distinctly avowed. Violet'
words could have effected nothing : that which was at last done'
was done after mature consideration of the necessity of acting
according to the altered state of circumstances. The fairei;
test by which a Government could judge of any particularlin
of policy, would be by its re-application of it to themselves•-!,
He had no objection to let the conduct of England towards th`
South American provinces be judged by this test. We were:
country with extensive colonial possessions ; if they ghoul
revolt, let other Powers act towards them as we had acted to''
wards the South American provinces, and we should not 00'
plain.--(Hear, hear !)—He was aware we might have taken

another course; but that would have given offence, would
probably have raised the standard of war, and that too, a war
of principle, which; next to a war of religion, would be pro-
ductive of theeatest miseries to mankind.—(-Hear, hear!)—
If we had taken gr
that course, we should have acted wrong._
The only events to which he could compare our conduct, had
we so acted, would be those that took place in the American
Revolution. When France took a part against England on
that occasion, when, ,4 willing to wound, and yet afraid to
strike," she first began to tamper with the American envoys,
she found that she had constant occasion to dread, not our
being conquerors, but our being reconciled to them. The
declaration of the French Government upon that occasioO,
the reply of Gibbon, and the statement made by Governor
Turner, bore testimony to the truth of these remarks. Ile did
not wish to revive unpleasant recollections, but he mentioned
these facts- to show what might have been the consequence of
our interference in the contest between the South American
Provinces and Spain. That contest was now at au end ; we
had taken the earliest npportunity of embracing the advantages
which were to be derived from its result. The benefits which
Were likely to accrue from it to our domestic and foreign trade
Were incalculable. In looking to these, he recollected the
works of two celebrated writers, one of them a Frenchman,
who expressed their regret at the tendency which the trade of
South America, had to this country. The advantages to be
derived to us from our intercourse with those states were great,
and would continue to increase every day. Trade and corn-
reerce at home and abroad were flourishing to a very wide extent.
bThe spirit of enterprise 'was daily increasing—what limits miht
Zaeet to it, he would leave to the Halls and the Humboldts of
c,-..`4aY.. He could not say to what lengths it would. be carried ;
fie, even if pressed to a greater extent, there was still a wide
eld
dial open for commercial speculation. The ground for it was
unexhausted, and with all that had been done, enough was
eit untried to give life and energy to the enterprise of those yet
r b°re--( Hear !) —The Noble Lord, after thanking the House
of the patience with Which they had attended to him, conclutl-
e,"peebyeitra. oving the Address, which was, as usual, an echo of the
r. Alderman THOMPSON spoke to the following effect :
line Mr. Speaker —I rise, Sir, to second the Address, which
been moved by my Noble Friend, and in presenting my-
adf to the notice of the House I feel conscioes that I stand in
teed of a greater portion of its indulgence that it has usually
een called upon to extend to any individual upon similar
?_ccasions • at the same time I must, in justice to the Noble
acknowledge that the very able and eloquent manner
to which he has illustrated the various and important topics
contained in his Majesty's most gracious Speech, has relieved
me from much of the arduous task I have undertaken. I shall
therefore abstain from trespassing upon the indulgence of the
louse,' being most anxious to avoid the risk of weakening the
favourable impression which the Noble hord appears to have
so successfully made upon both sides of the House ; impres-
sion which justifies me in fondly anticipating that the Address,
In answer to the Speech from the Throne, will meet with the
l'neaenieree, ,_,probation of the House, distinguished, as that
reeen
tati on, by matter of the deepest interest and of proud furnishingexul-
a theme of congratulation of a state of things sa
Inete gratifying than ever fell to the lot of the Monarch of this or
Sir l?Y other country to communicate to his people: It cannot fail,
t
tintle-os eehighly satisfactory to the country that his Majesty con-
fri to receive from Foreign Powers assurances of continued
jeeenchbiO, and of their disposition to cultivate with his Ma-
Welt these friendly relations which it is equally the interest as
Eva, a, the sincere de dre of the British Empire to maintain,
to the
furtherarce of tais object, it must he highly gratifying
• we country to learn, that through the mediation of his Ma.
ii!ttY, the differences which existed between the Emperor of
Ciussia and the Ottom in Porte have been brought to an arnica-
Ine issue; thet there ie no prospect of the harmony and friendly
tercourse which subsist between this country and foreign
powers being disturbed; but on the contrary, there is a well-
!°tltoled expectation of a continuance of that good understand-
tag Which has now existed for many years, and which has chiefly
contributed to raise this country to a state of unexampled pros-
perity. Whilst upon this branch of the subject, the House, I
'lope, will permit me to advert to an event which as lately
?ccurred in France, the circumstances connected wihth -which
have afforded strong evidence of the happy change which has
taken place in the feelings and opinions of the people of that
Country, and offers a substantial pledge of permanent tranquil.
lity, I allude to the demise of the King of France, .an
event which was contemplated with no inconsiderable degree
of anxiety by the people of every state in
,Europe, and.
which by the common course of nature, considering the age
arbodily infirmities with which Louis XVIII. was bitterly
afflicted, could not be very distant,.the termination of
Abe event-
'flll life of that Monarch was 'regarded as the- last. hope of the
-advocates for Revolution, but, thanks -to a'benigneProvidence,
their expectations have been disappointed e we have.witnessed
the sceptre of France pass into the hands of his legitimate sac-
l'e,,ssor - without the slightest disorder,- thus satisfactorily ex-
lotting to the World. that the present Dynasty-of France rests.
on the most solid foundation. I am led to these observations
to show how permanent are likely to be the advantages of peace
We now enjoy, and that the country is rapidly advancing to
state which may be viewed as affording. an indemnity for the
vast sacrifices she has made in the accomplishment of that great
le/allaotte—the general peace and tranquillity of Europe. With
I,e'Pect to the fallen states of Spain, the declarations of the
safely
of France regarding that country, may, I think,
core,
be confided in. I believe Charles the Tenth to be sin.
wre, when he-declares that his object in maintaining a military
reietcaiyation of a part of Spain is not for the purpose of ten-
t, er.ial aggrandizement, but with the view of, protection
si"za own dominions, and in proportion as that danger sub-
froa, in the same ratio will lie, no doubt, withdraw his army
tl Spain; and I think the House will admit the conduct
hese King of France during the short time lie has occupied
throne of that country offers the most satisfactory pledge
,the future. His accession to the Crown' has been distin-
r'sbed by a liberal policy, exemplified indeed strongly in the
Which
of the liberty of the press, and other institutions,
ew,tilch am in unison with a progressive state of tranquillity and
„!vilizetion. But, Sir, while our relations with the Continental
r °viers of Europe have acquired so auspicious a character, and
great and unprecedented as have been the benefits which Great
Britain has derived from this happy state of peace, his Majesty's
th'n'aters have not been inattentive to the opportunity when
e_ey could consistently with existing circumstances increase
the
radvantages, and extend the means of commercial inter-
.urae, by forming a connection with the new Transatlantic
feTes• Three centuries have now elapsed since those States
ander European dominion, unfortunately not of the Pro-
LeStaat part of Europe, nor of a country like Great Britain,
eatableea of departing useful institutions to its Colonies, and
_t a mutually beneficial intercourse : they fell under
!rte doininion of the Spanish Government—a Government un-
Tttunately blind both to its political and commercial interests.
What ayicture of the baneful effects of monopoly in trade and
ttY in religion has been exhibited in the case of Spanish
ebe'Ziea• How different the prospect which is now opened to
with "41114 in—the removal of all restrictions on their trade
other parts of the world—a passage of two months waft-
Ato the western hemisphere the manufactures of England,
:and thus laying the foundation by means of an interchange
ek°llltuodities for sound principles of trade, advantageous
whilst we receive in return supplies of produce
ii;aPted -both to the luxury of the higher classes and the in-
. b gtrY Of the lower. Had the Councils of Spain been guided
.aY enlightened men she never would have suffered so valuable
arP°rtian of the globe, and inhabited by twenty-one millions
vePeople,. tO be held in bondage disgraceful to civilized na-
04tLt.'ns, she would not have suffered the contest for liberal in-
utious and an emancipation from colonial monopoly and
have acquiesced in a change corresponding with the improve-
oft the tl •
Atui f Ynes- Spain, however, pursued a different course,
_ ortunatety an unsuccessful one; but while the struggle
_west dou.btful, England prudently remained neutral. The con-
ciVbeing virtually ended, his Majesty's Ministers have
pled decisive measures; they have taken Steps to form a
4e9Matic intercourse with those States, which will contribute
give them stability and a confirmed influential station amongst
.th:sTdpendent nations of the world. If there are Any among
whtnn I have the honour of addressing who were of opinion
measures
a for the recognition of those countries were too long -de-
t lased, if there are any who doubt the friendly diposition of his
dMajesty'` Ministers towards those new etates, I think they will
Iv readily acknowledge that Parliament acted wisely in con-
win ti haveertc6 in the Government ;
curred within t an n
he last six
whe reflectin
or nine on
months, the events
"i
oc they
mThalso be of opinion that the Administration have selected the
est suitable period for the opening of the' diplomatic inter-
, urse with those States, a period, indeed, when the Spanish
trees in that country have been vanquished in almost every
engagement, and Spain can no longer lay claim even to the
se, eniing title of a military occupation; when a system of Go-
;erninenthas been established in Colombia, Mexico, anti Bue-
-1?Il Ayres, exhibiting conclusive evidence of a knowledge of
yhberal systems of Government, and evincing a desire to culti-
tte the advantages derivable from the experience of a part of
the globe deeply skilled in arts, and most advanced in general
civilization. Having now given a sketch (and I fear an im-
perfect one) of the happy state of our foreign relations gene-
rally, and the advantages which we are likely to acquire from an intercourse with the South American States, I must also
notice the war which has unexpectedly sprung up in India ; the
measures which have however been taken will, I trust, speedily
lead to an adjustment of the differences, if not, we may safely
confide in that tried valour of our army in that quarter, and look
forward to an early and satisfactory termination of hostilities.
' The House has been apprized of his Majesty's intention toaug-
meat the army, a more efficient force in British India has ren-
dered this necessary, the reductions also which took place in the
Military force of the country since the peace, regiments. having

been reduced from 1,000 tetabout GOO men, has pressed incon-
veniently upon the •service in our distant possessions, the pro-
posed augmentation will afford much relief upon those stations;
c! and it is gratifying to refle6t, that from the flourishing state of
the revenue, no. additional burdenaon account of such increase
will be imposed upon the people. With respect
.to the Slave
Trade, frern the perseverance, temper, and.firnmess with which
that important subject has been espoused by_his Majesty's Go-
vernment, I think the House May..safely confide in their conti-
nued exertions towardatheeompletion of the wishes of the coun-
try. The state of Ireland is a topic which has been at various pe-
riods recommended to the attention of Parliament, and has suc-
cessively occupied its deliberative.' consideration. It is to be
lamented, that at a moment when British capital is beginning
to diffuse itself throughout, that fertile country, when the bene-
fits of an unrestricted commercial .intercourse between the two
countries are daily exemplified, whilst measures are also in
progress which cannot fail to ameliorate the condition of the
lower order of Irish population, I say, it is to be lamented, that
those beneficial effects are impeded in their rapid march by the
obtrusive interference of misguided individuals, who by their
acts are indeed exasperating animosities, diverting the attention
of certain classes of his Majesty's faithful subjects from honest
industry, and levying a species of tax upon a portion of the
people of that country, with no other object than to enable those
mistaken individuals to attempt to ovs:awe the Parliament of
the United Kinirdom. Whatever difference of opinion, Sir,
may exist in this House with respect to a question which is now
made the protecting mantle for covering the errors and false
notions of certain infatuated persons, I apprehend, that. under
existing circumstances but one opinion will be entertained in
this House, as to the course it will be fitting to pursue; for my-
felf I will take this opportunity of declaring that my opinions
are decidedly adverse to further concessions, my reasons for
which I shall, upon a suitable opportunity, he ready to assign.
I trust the House will grant me its attention, while I advert to
that part of his Majesty's Speech which relates to the improved
and improving state of our Agricultural interests, of our trade,
commerce, manufactures, and navigation, presenting a faithful
picture which cannot fail to be most gratifying to the mind of
every Englishman, to behold our country, after a war of unpre-
cedended length, carried on at an expellee to the people, to
which history affords- no parallel; not merely recovered from
the state of unavoidable exhaustion attendant upon such an
.unexampled struggle, but actually raised to a degree of pros-
perity and glory unknown at any period. In proof whereof, I
will advert to the increase of our Revenne. The branch of
Excise, which afibrds the best test of internal prosperity, alone
has exceeded the amount of the preceding year, by upwards
of one million one hundred thousand pounds • and the Cus-
toms; after deducting the repeal of duties within the year, to
the amount of one million one hundred and fifty thousand
pounds, only falls short of that of the preceding year 166,435!.
consequently there is an increase in this department of our
revenue nearly equal to that in the Excise, these form a just
and unerring criterion of the increasing prosperity of our foreign
and domestic trade; but indeed it is ,unnecessary to have refer-
ence to such proofs—whatever part of England you visit there
are preSented ,to your view a happy, contented, and Indastri-
ous population; whether they are employed in the manufac.
tories of. our -great staples, or in the cultivation of the soil,
the scene is equally gratifying. What a pleasiug contrast dots
the present state of die country form to that of the year 1820
a period within the age of the present Parliament. Yes, Sir,
within die short perio'd of five years I have heard gentlemen,
whose opinions have justly been entitled to great weight and
authority, declare that England was a declining country—that
in commerce, manufactures, and navigation, she was incapable
to enter into successful competition with our foreign rivals—
that the means by which she must sustain her public credit. were
rapidly diminishing. I take leave, Sir, to remind the House
of the gloomy predictions with which it was assailed from certain
of the manufacturing and shipping interests, at a period when
the important improvements in our navigation laws, warehouse
system, duties, &c. were under the consideration of Parliament,
predictions which had no other foundation than in the heredi-
tary attachment to ancient prejudices, unsuited to the present
times, and unsound in principle. Anti may I not now ask,
triumphantly, how have these gloomy predictions been veri-
fied ? Are those Members of this House, few indeed, who
advocated a continuance of the restrictive policy, become con-
verted at last to the liberal system of trade ? Are they now
prepared to co-operate in the encouragement of open coinpeti.
titmethe discontinuance of monopolies and restraints upon our
trade and navigation ? If not, let me entreat their attention for-
a short time, whilst I detail to the House the happy effects
which have resulted to the country principally from the im-
proved state of our commercial. code., „In the first place, Sir,
the official value of the exports of British manufactured goods
during the year.lB24,.entling,in October laste being the latest
periods . at which the public-accounts ..have.been made
.up, as
compared with the .preceding year 1823, exhibit an increase, of
no less than four millions and a half sterlingebringing.thetaetal
value of exports in 1824 to 50,758,1300/., being by-far the largest
export ever made by this country. The Transit trade has also
under the beneficial influence of the improved.warehousing sys.
.temeexperienced a marked increase; the Act oply took effect •
in July 1823, and in Oct. 1824, as compared with a like period
of twelve months preceding, in 1323, .there is . an increase in
value of upwards of-one million two hundred thousand pounds.
The sound policy of diminishing .duties on the raw material,
and acted upon by. the Right lion. the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, has been most folly'exeMplified in the following arti-
cles;, in consequence of that diminution, and the increased en-
couragement thereby given to the industry of the country,
duties were paid upoh nearly One million and a half of pounds
weight of silk more than id 1823, and on sheeps' wool upwards
of five millions of pounds weight since the last Session
.of
Parliament. The 'consumption of colonial ruin has also in-
creased during the same period 165,700 gallons. With respect
to our shipping interests,- they are also in a state of rapid im-
provement. About 200 more merchant vessels, yielding about
'
40,000 tons, have been constructed, during e last twelve
months in England and Scotland alone, as compared with
the preceding year. The value of shipping, according to
their respective tonnages, hns risen from twenty to forty per
cent. ; and ships employid in the timber trade, the owners of
which it was predicted would be ruined by the alteration of the
Timber Duties, and Reciprocity of Duties' Act, have. risen
full 60 per cent. in value, freights have increased from 20 per
cent., and there is plenty of employment. Of the increased
trade of the country the port of London has had its full share •
during the last year, as compared with the preceding; 2,800
more vessels entered the port from foreign and home ports,
and if but due encouragement be given to an extension of the
wet dock accommodation, so highly easential to the trade of
the metropolis, and the places of deposit for landing,
the rates and charges of the port will undergo material
reduction, and thus by inviting the foreign merchant to avail
himself of our capital, and the facilities offered to trade under
our improved commercial code, we shall soon compete with our
neighbouring continental rivals. The improved and improving
state of the revenue of the country will, it is hoped, enable his
Majesty's Government to proceed progressively with a dimi-
nution of taxation. The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer most decidedly enjoys the full confidence of the coun-
try, and I ant satisfied he will not disappoint the just expecta-
tions the country may have formed. The.prosperous state and
improving condition of our agricultural interests form a topic
of pleasing reflection : I am anxious however to state my opi-
nion, that such prosperity is not in any manner attributable to
the existing Corn Laws, which I believe is admitted by all par-
ties ought to undergo alteration. I am an advocate for their re-
peal,
and the substitution of' a protecting duty equal to a fair 1
equivalent of - the Poor Rates, Tithes, &c. paid by our far-
mers as compared- with other countries. I repeat, Sir, if the
situation of the country in 1820 was correctly pourtrayed (the
period to which I have first alluded), how pleasing is the pre-
sent contrast ; our trade last year has increased to an extent
unprecedented, and happily England no longer cherishes
visionary notions of advantage from commercial monopoly.
The men who guide our councils, the merchants who invigo-
rate our-national industry, concur in disclaiming the doctrines
of prohibition and restrictions. I will venture, without flat-
tery., to say of England, what the people of Rome said of one
of their Emperors. with a great deal of flattery—
`" Nil criturum alius, nil ostum tote fatentes."
(Hear !)—The Hon. Gentleman concluded by seconding the
Address.
The SPEAKER then read the Address ; after which
Sir. r. BROUGHAM rose and said, that as he regretted there
were some, and those not the least important parts of the
Speech from the Throne, to which he could not give his assent,
and against which he now rose to enter his most solemn protest,
yet lie could not refrain from expressing his great satisfaction
that there were other portions with which he most cordially and
.willingly concurred. He would certainly lay claim to the
merit of having given cause for some of'-the propositions in the
Speech, if he could do so without any great stretch of candour,
but, in fact, he and his Bone Friends around him were called
upon in some degree to tax their own modesty, and award praise
to the measures alluded to in-the Speech, inasmuch as those
measures had been urged by himself' and his Honourable
Friends for many years on the various successive administrations
of the country •-•(Hear, from the Opposition !)—fie felt dispoSed
therefore to restrain his admiration of the wisdom which planned
and the vigour which. executed them. Without arrogating the
slightest credit to himself,. lie would say, that the measures for
which credit was claimed for the Ministers, were really the
work of those Honourable-Frie.nds with whorl he had uni-
formly and. invariably .concurred. . The principles—and let the
truth be openly proclaimed to the great rejoicing of the coon-
try—were now anti for everiatrart end; which hampered the in-
dustry and impeded the energies, of the country.—(Hear!)—
Those narrow minded, huckstering notions of policy which all
wise men both abroad and at-home had treated with contempt—
principles, which for ages long before the present Ministers
came, into office, had. been the topic. of unqualified disappioe

bation from all writers on questions of political economy, and
' by the followers of such writers in Parliament. Year after
year had these principles been. condemned by hime and his ho-
nourable friends, and the- contrary doctrines which they pro-
mulgated had been treated as wild chimeras—the doctrines of
a free trade, and the right of man to employ his own industry
according to his own wisdom, nay, even according to his
own caprice—these doctrines. had -been Stigmatized as chimeras,
and visions, as being studied in a leaf torn from the volume of
" The Rights of Alan." And yet, these doctrines which were
at one time covered with reprobation and contempt, were now
regarded with respect by his Majesty's Government in prac-
tice, and made topics of congratulation in the Address about to
be carried to the foot of the Throne. Very little candour in-
deed was required to approve those parts of the speech which
referred to a modification of the Navigation Laws. He had
often spoken upon them, and -had thereby drawd upon, himself
great disapprobation from a Right Honourable Gentleman op-
posite, a great guardian of our trade-e-(Hear ! as we under-
stood from Mr. Iluskisson)—now no more.—( A laugh.) —He
(Mr. Brougham) did not intend to confound the Right .Hon.
Gentleman in his eye (Mr. Huskisson) with the Right Ho-
dourable Gentleman alluded to (Mr. Rose), whom he had-in
his " mind's eye" only.—(llear !)—Yet those very opinions
which had formerly excited such severe animadversions were
, now made .the basis of .the measures - for which Ministers
claimed credit. He (Mr. Brougham) could likewise refer to
the change which had taken place in the laWs relating to the
silk trade. At first he was assailed by many persons with
great severity, because he strenuously called for some modifi-
cation, and when some Hon. Friends of his had since urged
the same opinions, and supported them with facts and doc-
trines in greater detail they were censured in the same way,
and with` greater harshness. One Hon. Speaker said that he
hoped such theories would never be put in practice ; another
said he trusted in God that no man entertaining such fantastic
dreams would ever come into office—time Ministers would never
'assist in overthrowing the corner-stone of the prosperity and
trade of the country that they would not keep meddling from
morning to night, and in that House from night to morning
(the worst sort of meddling)—(hear)—with these topics, and
that they would never genver to the Opposition side of the House
to borrow any of their pernicious nostrums— (Hear !)—and:yet
after all, those very Ministersehadahought it worth their while to
take a leaf out of their black book—they had chosen to confide in
some. of the damnable heresies of the-Freneheconomists, Adam
Smith, and the deluded followers of these writers, and we now
saw them (and were called upon to be grateful for it), adopting
all the same principles and putting into operation the same
measures. He repeated, that he thanked God such principles
were now recognized—he thanked God that the country was never
again to be afflicted with the true visions—time real chimeras—
the hucksterlike, shopkeeping, beggerly notions of political
economy, but that a more er.lerged, philosophical, and states-
manlike principle was recommended by the King, and that Mi-
nisters were compelled to adopt by the King, the House, and the
Country. Having found so much to concur in, he had only
to hope that the Government would go on in the same course.
—( H ear !)—lf they had done but little, yet that little was an
earnest of a more liberal and enlightened policy. Ministers had
adopted his recommendations of 1817, with regard to the navi-
gation an 1 silk laws. He had recommended one or . two mea...
sures which were perfectly plain and easy. lie had proved to
the House, that nothing was so true, as a maxim of Dean
I Swift, " That in the arithmetic of the Customs two and two
did not always make finer." The good seed he had sown,
did not spring up and fructify immediately, for Govern-
ment increased the duty oa coffee anti certain kinds of
tea, but none on wine. 1-le trusted,' however, .that their next
measure would be to reduce the duty on witie, or at least
revise the conditions of the Methuen 'l'reaty.., -and equa-
lize the duties on wines of different countries. If the
country were enabled in this way to drink French wines
cheaper, the result would be an increased consumption, and
the duty, though lower in rate, would be greater in amount.
—These were some of the instances he Would allude to, and
he fain would hope that the reforming measures of Mini-
sters were not to end at the. point which they had at pre-
sent reached. Another circumstance alluded to in time
Speech deserved the expression of his adthiration. He had
seen, with high satisfaction, an approach OR the part of
the Gosiernment to the sound, just, 'and liberal policy which
that side of the House had so often proclauned, and which
had received the unanimous approbation of the country,--he
meant the recognition' of the great and Independent States of
South America.--(Hear, hear, hear !)—How much of this re-
'cognition .belonged to-the country—what portion of the credit
belonged to the Government,—how far they were goaded anti
driven into it—with what tardy speed and reluctant readiness
they had performed their office,—,these were points not neces-
sary to be inquired into, because they had at length done
it: Yet it should net be forgotten that much had been done
by .a Learned Friend near him (Sir James ,Mackintosh),
s—the most powerful—the most learned—the most consistent
advocate for South American Independence. From the day
On Which his Honourable anti Learned Friend had made that
:memorable oration on the question of • the Foreign Enlistment
Bill, down to the last moment when he made a Speech scarcely
less powerful on this specific subject, lie had constantly la-
boured to effect the great object of recognition. It would be I
unjust therefore to touch upon The question of South America I
without praising his lion. Friend, and ascribing much of the
triumph of liberal policy over•contracted prejudices to his stre-
nuous, able, and persevering efforts.—(Hear !) He gave credit
to Government for the recognition, and would not quarrel with
them because it might_ have been urged upon them by the
Country. It was a great good gained when a Government
abandoned its evil courses in conformity with the unanimous
wishes of the people, and he would neither object to the motive
nor nicely criticise the manner. He had yet to learn whe-
ther that recognition had been made upon perfectly liberal
and disinterested_principles, or whether it was a species .of.
barter for some commercial advantage ; yet for the measure •
itself he could not but express his unqualified admira-
tion.
He trusted that the recognition would not stop short
with the States of the Continent. There was another Power
which had thrown 'off the yoke of subjection to the mother
country long before Mexico, Buenos Ayres, or, Peru, had
thought of doing so—which had sought and struggled threhe
inestimable prize of independence, and had gained at last the
great object of that struggle. He meant the relent' of St: Do-
mingo.—(ll ear !)—A fter a contest almost unprecedented for its
duration and its severity, they had succeeded in establishing it:.
Government more peaceful than some, and equal to any of
those on the South American continent. He (Mr. Brougham)
had at first believed that it would he injudicious for England
to countenance the efforts of St. Domingo. We were placed
in a cruel and embarrassing situation, being ourselves such
extensive slave-masters. In justice to the tranquillity of the
slave-islands, he thought that no example should be sanc-
tioned which might influence the blacks to rebellion,- but that
apprehension had long since been set at rest by the perfect free-
dom of St. Domingo—a freedom which it was at once our in-
terest, duty, and policy, to recognize. No time ought to be
lost in acknowledging the independence of St. Domingo in '
the same manner, and for more than the same reasonsei
which had produced and almost extorted the acknowledg-
ment of the Continental Governments. But he would ask
was liberal policy. to stop short here ? Was all justice to be
confined to Spanish America, perchance because it was bene-
ficial to English trade, or peradventure because the interests
of that trade found powerful and efficient patrons in the Go-
vernment of the country ? _ Were we never to talk of just and
liberal policy, of doing right and justice where Ireland was
concerned—(Loud cheers)—where one half of the empire was -
in hazard and in suffering ? True, that on this question .
much difference of opinion existed, and that it was never
convenient to come to any conclusive agreement. On. all
other matters Ministers would make up their minds to con-
cur ; but on this, the most important of all, it appeared a
subject of despair to expect any concurrence. The country
must give up all hopes of having an undivided intelligible and.
distinct opinion from an undivided intelligible and distinct
Cabinet, on the most important measure for which a Minister
was ever made responsible. On many other questions, as,
for instance, on the silk trade, all differences were finally
reconciled. It was introduced by one Minister, opposed by
another in this House, therm thrown out of another place (which
lie was not permitted to name), and after all, the several oppo-
nents consented to agree and to carry the measure. So was it
with respect to Spanish America; after much conflicting dis-
cussion, the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) had the wis.
dom, the manliness, and the justice, to insist upon recognition.
In doing so he was backedby the people, and by that side (the
Opposition) of the House, and he would have been trebly backed
if he had even given up his office: rather than not effect so
desirable a measure. Was not Ireland, therefore, so much
nearer and dearer to us—where so many- great events were
taking place—where so ninny mighty interests existed, and so
many mighty dangers were accumulating to overawe or rather
to stun us into wisdom. Was not Ireland to be of more im-
portance to us than remote and unconnected countries, and
were they to say that this was the only subject on which it was
inconvenient for the Government to agree ? 'file country was
no longer to be told of scruples anti delicacies in higher quar-
ters preventing such agreement. For himself he held the doc-
trine in perfect abhorrence—he regarded it as the most uncoil-
stitutionalpth ever resorted to by Ministers, to urge the scru-
ples of a certain quarter as an objection to beneficial measures.
It was a language' which the minions of Charles 11. would
never have dared to use; it was a language that, in those bet-,
ter times which preceded Charles the Second, would have '
brought a Minister to the scaffold ; it was a language the.
most unconstitutional and frivolous that any Minister could
employ.—(Hear, hear ! from Mr. W. Lamb.)—He (Mr. B.)
should like to hear how his Hon. Friend, who challenged him
• by his cheers, how lie with
.all his learning and all his • expe-
rience, who had tried all parties, would establish his challenge.

But how would the illustrious and immortal Statesman (Mr.
Fox), the original introducer of this doctrine, have shrunk
from and lamented such a cheer given by his pupil to the
-Whig doctrine, that the king's name ought never to be
mentioned in
.debate, .and used, for the- purpose of' overawing
the constitutional- privileges of the House.—(Hear' hear !)-1t
was the doctrine of his Illustrions Friend that his Majesty
should always have the credit of any good act, and that of
every odious measure, Ministers should incur the responsibi-
lity.—(Hear !)—What he (Mr. B.) had said was a simple co-
rollary from this doctrine, yet it was now the usual practice to
act upon a contrary doctrine. Even in personal matters—such
as military appointments—whenever any thing ungracious
took place, it was usual to say • " This is not the fault of. Lord
Such-a-one, or 'Mr: 'Such-a-one ; we have no choice—we are
not to blerne ; we never wish •to injure a political adversary;
but there are certain scruples in a certain high quarter, which
we must yield to." Thus all the odium was to be cast upon'
his Majesty, and Ministers were to claim credit for all the
praise. When any great public measure was carried, they al-
ways talked of the monstrous difficulties they had overcome,.
and, God only knew—what prejudices in high - quarters—just
as in any case of a personal nature. So had it hitherto been
with Tigard to Ireland. But thank God it would be so no
longer. No such prejudices existed now in his Majesty's
breast. No on- who had marked the course of that Illustrious
Individual's life, anti especially his visit to Ireland, could for a
moment doubt that his opinions were favourable to the most
just and enlightened policy-towards that country. But it was
not easy to know what his Majesty's opinions really were in this
country, where he always spoke through the mouth of the
Ministers -where his speech and his actions were the speech
and actions of' Ministers. There was a country where the opi-
nions of his Majesty might be ascertained. "It was an ill
wind that blew nohody goal, and . one of the benefits derived
from our connection with Hanover—a connection formerly
deemed so little desirable, was the hearing his Majesty speak in
his own person as George IV., and not through a Minister. It
gave him (Mr.-11.) delight to tied in a recent proclamation is-
sued in that kingdom by his Majesty (" of which, for the sake
of greater accuracy he had obtained a copy"—A laugh !)—the
most sound and liberal principles. It would be well if' Minis-
ters would copy a leaf from that book, and by laying the
example to their consciences, prevent the fate which now
awaited Ireland.—( Hear !)—His Majesty expressed those en-
lightened sentiments, which would be echoed by every wise
person in Europe:—" The general professors of the Christian
faith shall enjoy a perfect equality, and all notions of a predo-
minant existing Church shall be entirely abolished,"—(llear !)
This was the real doctrine of toleration.—( Hear !)—The really
tolerant man would n Jr make use of such a word as tolera-
tion.—(Cheers.)—He would hold it as matter of right, and rot
of favour, that every man should enjoy perfect freedom of
belief, and should tbllow the dictates of his own conscience. He
might be wrong in his mode of faith, but it was an insult to
talk of tolerating him.—(Cheers.)—His Majesty was perfectly
right, and went on in the same sound spirit to AJT—" All reli-
gions communities," and he (Mr. B.) would not confine this to
Hanover, but extend it also to Ireland, " have the right to the
unobstructed and free exercise of their own religious worship."
More than this was not to be desired, and no one asked for more
in the case of Ireland. It would .require, however, great
powers or coumenance in any one to carry to the fbet of the
throne on which sat the Monarch, who had used such language,
an Address pledging the House to a doctrine directly the re-
verse. He would ask the friend of the Catholic question to
maintain in the most bold and frank manner, the necessity of
emancipation. He would leave the Catholic Association out
of the question, because it was the natural, necessary and
genuine fruit of withholding the Catholic Claims.—(Cheers.)—
He had told the House last year that such must be the genuine
fruit of their proceedings, and that if there was any harsh and'
extravagant language in the petition, the blame ought to be
laid. not upon the Association, but those who made the Asso-
ciation what it was.—(Cheers.)—The House ought to be well
assured that in the Whole history of human affairs there was
no truth more certain than that the sure way to force men
into the making unreasonable demands was to refuse their rea-
sonable requests.—( Hear, hear !)—The House had turned the
reasonable into the unreasonable,. and had made the Catholics
'change the language of respectable request into that of insolent
demand.. It might be urged to Ministers that as they had in
several cases when backed by the Opposition in the House and
the opposition in the country, succeeded in carrying questions on
which difference or opinion existed at first, that they should
now try the expeliment with regard to Ireland ' What was the
great fear ? whence rose the great alarm ? Were they afraid
lest some of their Colleagues in the Cabinet should give up their
plaCes—resign their offices ? It'hat, quit the Great Seal !
(Loud Laughter.)—" Good God ! (exclaimed the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman) the miracles of Prince Hohenloe are no-
thing to such a miracle as this !"--(Laughter.)—The wildest
dream, the most chimerical fancy that ever disturbed -a poet's
brains •was nothing to it. Many things he expected, many
things might surprise him, but to resign such a place, to give up
such an office, never entered his mind even in dreams.—(Cheers.)
—Hon." Gentlemen Opposite greatly mistook the consistency of
purpose—they underrated the patient assiduity—they were igno-
rant of the edifying fortitude with which the learned individual
bore all the fatigues and difficulties of his high office, .and the
distresses of the suitors in his own Court—(Laughter and cheers.)
It was assuredly the wildest notion that .ever crossed a fantas-
tic . imagination to suppose that this distinguished personage ,
would abandon his place.—(Cheers. )—Let him only be tried_
(cheers)—let him only be tried. Never was there a person who
exhibited an equal love for serving his country—in office.—
(Cheers.)—The higher the office, and the greater the emolu-
.ment, the more generous his ardour to serve his country.—
(Hear, hear !)—Greatly therefore had this person's attachment
to his country, and his power of enduring official fatigue, been
under-rated. lie never would give up the official seals until
they were wrenched from his grasp. That his office was an
estate for life was clear, the only doubt on the point was,
whether it was not a freehold, and whether he might not ap-
point a successor by devise or will. -He (Mr. B.) had heard
that some symptoms had appeared of appointing such a succes-
sor, but such successor would be excessively disappointed if he
expected to get the situation- during the present incumbent's
natural life.—(Cheers.)—This was the great opponent of the
Catholic Claims ; and yet he ( Mr. B.) was firmly of opinion,
that it' the experiment were tried on this, as it had been on other
questions, the nation would never be deprived of the ines-
timable benefit of those great services.—(Hear !)—lt had never
yet been tried, and the Catholics had waited year after year---
they had S2CII their petitions partly heard and partly rejected,
until at last the Catholic Association arose with the intention
of carrying by strong means their wishes through Parliament.
In the Address the word used was Associations, in the plural
and not without an object. He would point the attention of
the House to the letter s, as sly a little letter as Belial himself
ever used—

—" Whose tongue dropt manna, skilled
'l'o make the worse appear the better reason,
To perplex and dash maturest counsels.
Yet all was false and hollow !"
It was Belial who added that s ; he knew his hand-writing.—
(A laugh,)—And the object was to put the Catholic Asso-
ciation on the same grounds with other associations, and to
hold a balance between them. He solicited the House not to
act on such a notion • it was one of those subtle equities
so much talked of in that Court, of whose presiding Judge he
had just spoken. The effect would be to put down with a
strong and irresistible hand, the Catholic Association, whilst
the others would receive only a gentle tap. Let not the
House be deceived with any such fair outside. He was
not one of those who would assent to any such proposi-
tion. He regretted that it had been asserted in the Address
that the Association had held language inconsistent with
lie Constitution. It would exasperate Ireland and disturb
her tranquillity. He did not approve all the proceedings of
any association, and particularly of such as were held toge-
ther by bonds of a mixed, political, and religious nature.
Men feelingly alive to their interests and opinions, naturally
stepped beyond the line of strict propriety. But after making
all the allowances which justice required, he must say, that
after an attentive observation of all that the Association had
spoken, done and written, he could conscientiously declare his
inability to trace one .word, one act, or one line, which justi-
fied the charges contained in the Address. Their moderation
was ex:nuplary--their language, though sneered at very un-
worthily, by the Noble Lord, was not violent—and their elo-
quence (which it would be more prudent for the Noble Lord to
endeavour to imitate than to pronounce a sarcasm against, or
rather endeavour to pronounce a sarcasm) was of a high order.
The Noble Lord had said that he did not feel disposed to treat
with contempt the Catholics of Ireland. " lie," (exclaimed the
Learned Member) "he treat with contempt six millions of his
Majesty's subjects !" This would go abroad to Ireland where
the Noble Urrd would now for the first time be heard of. The
Learned Gentleman said he should feel greater surprise if any
man should feel disposed to treat's° large a body of the people
with contempt. He was sorry to hear such an expression from
the Noble Lord, whose general good sense he had great reason
to expect, but no man, however contemptuous his disposition,
not even Signor Poeo Curante himself, could disdain the Ca.
tholic Association. It contained nearly all the leading men of
Ireland, and all the Catholics gave it their unqualified support.
It was the virtual representative of the Catholic population of
that country.. Some there were who perhaps did not .agree in all
it had said and done; such persons he had the honour to know;'.
who thought the orators at the Association had occasionally
gone a little too far. His Learned and Right Hon. Friend
opposite (Mr. Plunkett) sitting over his breakfast table, had
thought so, and 'appealed to 23 men who thought differently.—
( Hear!)-.- He knew and felt the difficulties of the Right
Hon. Gentleman's situation—he knew his honest zeal, his in-
estimable seryices. If any one in Great Britain had done much
to ruis*e t;ie Catholics of Ireland, it was (with the exception of

heir great and distinguished advocate Mr. Grattan) espe-
dell); the Right Hon. Gentleman. He it was who raised them
to .the plenitude of power and influence they now possessed,
and produced the Catholic AssociatiOn, or, at least; armed its
most powerful weapon—his marvellous powers of eloquence -
and reasoning. He was acquainted with many persons who,
though they disapproved of many parts of the Association's
proCeedings, would nevertheless cling to it, and oppose every
attack-against it by Act of Parliament, as being an attack
against the People of Ireland. To legislate on such a subject
was in. his Opinion morally impossible. He did not know how
the line could be drawn between it and many other -public bo-
dies who raised subscriptions in a similar way. There were the
Bible SOcieties, much more extensively ramified, and having a
revenue of upwards of one hundred thousand pounds per annum,
with branches throughout the country, enlisting under their
banners all religious sects, all the Dignitaries of the Church,
having. at their head a Peer of the Realm, and one of- their
most active members, a Noble Lord with whom he often had
the pleasure of acting—he meant the Earl of Liverpool—
(A Laugh)—and another Noble Person, whose concurrence he
might also hereafter expect on quesnons of trade (Lord Bex-
ley), was at the head of 'a similar institution, whose objects
were more religious and quite as political as those of the Ca-
tholic. Association. There was still another Association which
ought to be put down far more than the Cathelicnassociation,
to which the Duke of 'Wellington was a subscriber, the Bridge-
street Association—(Hear; hear !)—whose purpose was not to
put an end to long standing grievances, but to prosecute all
writers against such grievances. Ile mentioned these -cas a
to show the extreme difficulty of legislating on such a question.
Either we must have complete emancipation, a consummation
not utterly to be despaired of, or some measures to gratify the
absurd fears and fancies of prejudiced persons. If to address
the House, for froin the first step to the last he would take his
stand—(Hear !) —make every opposition to a measure bot-
tomed on -injustice, and certain to lead to a separation of
the kingdoms.—( Loud Cheera!)—He believed that the Catholic
Association had been of vast service in securing the
peace of Ireland. (Hean. hear !) That country- was far..
more tranquil now; when the people through the Associa-
tion had some reliance on the law, than foemerly when they
complained without redreas. , They had passed from a state of
incivilization to the luxury of being protected by the law. This,
cloak it as they might, varnish it as they woald, was the work
of the Catholic Association.—(Heard)—The Dish had formerly
confided in that House—they had looked to that HotiSe for
protection, but finding that all their friends, as soon as they
got into office, left therti in the lurch—finding -that .Parlia-
ment had neglected them, they drew the conclusion that
they had nothing to trust to Parliarn2nt, exc_Tt under other
circumstances, where their supporters had not become Mini-
sters, or where there was some fear of invasion or of foreign
war. This was one of the causes which gave birth to the Ca-
tholic Association ; this, too, Was the reason why Parliament
could not look to the AssOciatiop' without a feeling of dread,
and whilst they feared they hated,. Swift slid-that nothing was
more common than for,men re make themselves ridiculous,
and then to be angry bectinSe they were laughed at. Just so in
Government, nothing so unreasonable and yet more common
than for bad rulers to create misery amongst the people, and
then by bad measures to drive the peopla to violence. Par-
liament made the Irish rebels, and then covered them with
blame and vituperation for being so. At present there was
not even any talk of rebellion, and there was but , one measure
which could bring rebellion to these shores, and this-was the suf-
fering more than the twelfth hour to pass away; after having
planted a dangerous root, and seen it grow tip to maturity,
spreading its scions over the empire, and now endeavouring to
put it down by Act of Parliament. This was gross injustice,
and even madness. If they were determined to put it down,
it might be down in forty-eight hours. It- was their own crea-
tion, and it was their own fault that they were haunted by it ;
but if the Catholic reivion 'were carried, and justice were
equally administered in Ireland, that moment it would .cease
to exist. , That the Government might be wise and espeedy
in the adoption of its measures, preferring. the gentle -tO the
violent, was his earnest prayer, and he wished he couldadd,
his assured hope. Ile could not vote for the Address. Many
Gentlemen were absent who would have joined in protesting
against such a positive opinion on this subject as it contained,
and this was the reason why he should not take the sense of
the House. He did- not wish that the Catholics of Ireland
should infer from a scanty number of opponents that the num
her of their friends was equally scanty. There was, however,
no time to be lost in taking the necessary steps on this ques-
tion, which so deeply concerned the connexion and tranquillity
of the empire.(Hear, hear !)
Lord L. GOWER rose-to explain.' Be strongly disclaimed
any intention of sarcasm or disrespect in the obserVations he
had made with reference to the Catholic Ass 'elation,
Mr. BROUGHAM said, he was not the only person who
took the same view he did of what fell from the Noble-Lord. He
rejoiced that he afforded him an opportunityof explanation; as
'it would tend to preserve among the Roman Catholics what still
remained among them of respect for that
Mr. W. LAMB said, he would not- have intruded himself
'so soon upon the House were it not., fbr the observation
that had been so pointedly directed against him by the Ho-
notirable and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brouf,,ltam). .The
cheer to which .the Honourible •and Learned Gentleman al-
luded had been drawn froth 'hint for no other 'reason but
this, that he thought his language .somewhat" too exagge-
rated in speaking of the effect- that 'would' have followed,
in the times-preceding Charles 11. if arkf pefso4 shinad dare to
talk of scruples in a high quarter. This' hunnought tended to
weaken his argument, and thatavas the onlftnotiye for expressing
what he felt in the usual manner by a cneer. The Hon; and
Learned Gentleman was pleased to nibsnrve, that he tried, all
parties and opinions. He was not away: o r .what-facts this, as-
sertion was founded.—(Hear!)—No Man had more respect than
himself for the opinions of the lion: and. Learned'Oentleman ;
and he should be sorry if any thing occurred to •produce. To diffe-
rence between them. In most parts of the Address he con-
curred. Not thinking, however, that the t ite on the country
was ever so desperate as some seemed to think, h.e saweno reason
for so much exultation as the Address contained.- seemed
to him, therefore, to sound sonic wh Aike exaggeration.
It was said that the Catholii Asisociation- adopted proceed-
ings inconsistent with the spirit- of ;did Constitution. Of
this he should expect proofs`; Mid*, under • the • idea :that
they would be brought before the House, he should sup
port that) part of- the Address. It was true - them were
other Associations that had sortie analogy: to this,.. ; Oleo/
were not so much connected with politieirsathjects desi.
cable co doubt that men should have it in their power.feiassem.
ble and express their Opinions ; but if under pretenceof!'delibe
rating on their own particular grievances these discussions. took'
in almost every question affecting the interests of the country,
such an Association became a fit subject for legislative. provi-
sion. The subscriptions might be legal and proper, but it'
Catholic Priests, who assumed the powers of absolution and
the remission of sins, interested themselves in the collection: of
it, it became, in his mind, a cause for some alarm.- If, the
influence they necessarily acquired from the discharge of their
spiritual functions.were brought into play on-politicalatiatters,
it then required the deepest consideration. Whatever might be
the conduct of the Association, or whatever its advocates Might
advance in its favour, his opinion of it should remain un,
changed. •
Mr. Secretary CANNING then rose. He observed-that: it
was not his intention to follow the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man opposite through many of the topics whicn he had opened
up in his speech, as several of these would form themes of.dis..
cussion on a future occasion. The Hon. Gentleman, passing over
the consideration of various topics in the Speech, had dwelt IT=
one at great length ; that part of it, namely, whicliilluded to
the Catholic Association ; and had in no very gracious away
drawn observations froth another part which chiefly concerned
himself. With respect to the first part, the Hon.Gentleman.had
stated some opipions which he (Mr. Canning) had always held,
and was ever prepared to support when they were brotight fors
ward; but in his view, so fur front that Association•identifying
itself with the Catholics of Ireland, he considered it as a scheme,
a device, and an invention, fbr sowing hatred in the minds- of th e
Irish. - lie believed that the veriest enemy to peace, -if he had
sat down and raised in this country a scheme for exasperating
the spirit of the people, , conld not have hit on raeaneeinore cer.
tarn of accomplishing this object than the invention and con-
duct of the Catholic Association.—(H ear, hear l)neThe.firat
argument lit' the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, which lie had
thought proper to pursue at great length, was, that-if no step
had been taken by the Government with respect to the Asso,
ciation, the mischief might have died away. Now thnnwas
the line of conduct which he- (Mr. Canning) had -taken- dur-
ing the last Session of Parliament. Had the Hew Gentle,
man forgotten how he was goaded to put it down,- arui:whsn
so goaded, had he forgotten the probability then felt in the
inarrity of the House, that the Association would-
di eof,
the.y
of itself ; and had he forgotten, too, that in this view
-.
affair, no call was to be made to Parliament until the result
of the experiment was known ? But if thiswere
his argument
re object
the
of the Honourable Gentleman, he had
:c
singularly enough. It was his business Fen to ditoinish.the
power of the Association, to shew that it n •
ss a harmless meet,:
ing of individuals,
of the
represent the sentiments
Catholics of' speech
and even beyond his Own
invention.—(Hear, hear!)—ale
Berated almost beyond exaggeration,
Id us now that the Catholic
the
peace and the tranquillity
which the country now enjoyed of to-night he had exag..
Irelandw;hbottiltititnniot i
Association was the source or_
Hear hear !) ;—and n ihis•
and
zeal to obtain credit for his predictions recommendations in
former times, be had forgott Wellesley
's
the existence of Lord Wellesle ' s
Administration ; he had forgotten the talents and the merits'
which belonged to that eminent man ; and would have us' to.
believe that the Administration did not distribute even-handed
justice between Catholic and Protestant ; and that the favour
of the Government and the sunshine of the favour of the Crown