The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-06 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON,

so. The first Christian Emperor prohibited interment
near the habitations of the living. They Were
prohibited in the last century in France, and in the
present century New York 11 td prohibited them, and
why should this country be the last to follow so good an
example?—(Cheers.) We constantly hear a great
deal about the sister country, Ireland, and of the
debased state in which the Irish people are. I
went last Autumn to visit that country, and to
Dublin, and there I saw,—not, as we see here,
grave-yards in the middle of our crowded streets and
thoroughfares,—but I was taken by an lion. Friend of
mine, the Member for Dublin, whom I hope to see here
this evening—I mean Mr. Reynolds—(Cheers)—to see
a burial-ground in the vicinity of the Irish capital. He
was himself the person who established the burial.
ground of Glassnevin, which is of large extent; and in
fact, it is °risme nted with so much taste, with flowers
and shrubs, that it is a beautiful thing to see, where all
sectarian animosities are dismissed—(Applause)---and
where persons of ail grades rest side by aide, and that
for the first time, for until that burying-ground was es-
tsbhjshcd, burials were the occasions el those feelings to
which I have alluded, and which are so much to be
deplored; but now, when people die in Ireland, they are
taken out of the town, and buried in the burial-ground
of Glassnevin. There are to be found the graves
of O'Connell and of all those persons of distinction
who died in Ireland. I very much wish we had some-
thing of that kind appertaining to London, and I do not
see why we should not, nor why that improvement
should be any longer delayed.—(Elear, hear.) We have
had already Comtnitts es enough on the subject, and I
think it is seven years ago since the first Committee sat.
We have had the Committee of which my Hon. Friend
the Member for Leamington was the Chairman; but we
hare had no practical measure. Now, I think the time
has came when it behoves the Government to bring in
acme practical measure. Sir George Grey a few nights
ago, stated in answer to a question from Lord Duncan,
it was their intention to bring forward a measure of
the kind. I hope they will carry out that intention, but
sure I am that meetings of this kind are the most effec-
tual means of preventing the Ministers forgetting, ere
the session closes, what was their intention at its begin-
ning.—(Applause.) I don't know of any objection to
the removal of graveyards out of London, except three,
which occur to me. The first is, if we do away with
those burial grounds, it is said we deprive the clergy
who perform the service of their fees. Now, of coarse,
however generous, however high-minded those clergymen
may be it is impossible to suppose that they can give,
without compensation, a great portion of that which
forms their living; and sorry I am to think the working
clergy are not in a position to make any considerable
sacrifice, because I think those in the Church who work
the hardest, are those who are exceedingly ill-paid.—
(Applause.) Some time ago it was supposed—the
clergy generally were adverse to the change. I do not
believe that to be the case now. I believe the clergy
feel well disposed towards this measure. That, I think
may be concluded from the evidence given before the
Committee by the Bishop of London. And as I have no
doubt that other meetings after this will be held, I hope
that it will not be long before we see some of the dig-
nitaries of the Church coming forward to answer for
themselves in this respect.—(Applause.) There is no
doubt that measures may he devised to compensate to
those clergy for what they would lose by this change ;
and I have no doubt those pious and reverend men
will be found exceedingly willing to give
every facility that they can to this great
improvement. Therefore I don't think that objection is
one which ought to stop us. The next objection is, that
if you prevent by law burials taking place in towns it
will be necessary that the dead should be carried to
sumo distance, and that will increase the expense of
lunerals to the poor. Now, I am not at all insensible
to that objection, because I know that much to their
honour, if there is any thing on which the poor of this
country in general have deep feelings and about which
they are anxious, it is to be able to give a decent burial
to those relatives of whom death deprives them.—(Ap
plause.) I think that is very much to their honour;
and I think these are feelings which ought by all means
to be fostered and cherished; and when I know that a
poor family will strain every nerve, and even for a
season subject themselves to every kind of privation, in
order to be able to render iu a manner satisfactory to I
their feelings the last tribute to their departed friends;
really, I think nothing can be more honourable,
nothing can deserve greater respect. But pro-
bably without much difficulty measures may be
arranged for the removal of bodies with all decency,
and with very little, if any, increased expense, to ceme-
teries without the town. Then there is a third objec-
tion, which is, if you increase the expense of funerals
in any degree, you increase the expense to which the
parishes must be put in burying paupers, and you there-
by do that which must gave a tendency to raise the
burial rates. Now, in these times when rates are so
extremely heavy, when they bear so hard upon the
rate-payers, I am quite aware that that objection would
be a serious one if it was to extend to any great degree;
but I beg on that subject to remind the parochial
authorities of this, that if there is any thing which has
a tendency to increase the number of paupers, and
therefore to swell the parochial rates, that thing is sick-
ness among the poor—(Hear)—and whatever measures
you can adopt which can promote the health of
;he working classes will inevitably have a ten-
dency towards diminishing the amount of the
poor rates.—(Loud applause.) For what is the
course of life occurring every day? A poor man has to
work, and by labouring hard and performing that duty
which requires the whole strength of a vigorous frame,
he obtains barely enough to support his wife and family;
he is overtaken lay sickness—he does not know why—
very likely it is sickness occasioned by the vicinity of one
of those horrible graveyards, and he very soon becomes
incapable of supporting his family; and if his illness
lasts any time, the inevitable consequence is, that he and
his family must go to the workhouse, and in that manner
I have no doubt the rates are increased very much more
than they would be by any little increase which would
take place to the cost by burying those who must be
buried by the parish, supposing cemeteries to be placed
beyond the limits of the town. I think, therefore,
that the objection is not a real, but only an illusory
one, and I am satisfied that a little con-
sideration of the subject would suffice to
convince those who are interested in it that such is the
case. Now, I have already detained the meetirg at
much greater length that I intended to do—(Applause)
—and I will haste to give place to those other gentlemen
who will have the honour of addressing you. I am
quite sure they will place the subject before you much
better than I have done, and will show to you the neces-
sity and the great importance of this subject; and I have
no doubt they will lay before you reasons which shall
fully convince you that the time is come that something
ought to be done by the Legislature ; and
before you leave the meeting you will agree on some
plan that will convey your opinions and your ideas on
this subject to the Houses of Parliament. I shall now
call on my Hon. Friend Mr. Mackinnon to move the first
resolution.—( Applause.)
Mr. MACKINNON, M.P., said when he beheld the
meeting before him, and considered the object for which
it was assembled, and when he had paid attention to the
speech of the Noble Lord who had last addressed
them, he could not but be convinced that the holy cause
in which they were engaged was likely to be brought to
a satisfactory termination.—(Applause.) Previously to
his entering on the subject, which he should do in a very
few words as he was fully aware that he saw around him
on the platform, gentlemen ()thigh talents and great expe-
rience who would address them much better than he could;
he could not but congratulate them on the good fortune
which they had experienced that day, in having the
amiable nobleman who had just addressed them to take
the chair on that occasion.—(Applause.) Ma amiable
qualities, and the zealous manner in which he had per-
formed his political duties during the time he had sat
in Parliament, was very different from that of many
Members of the House of Commons who held a seat in
that House only for political purposes, or who wanted
some job. His Noble Friend in the chair had the most
philanthropic feelings; his kindness in favour of the
Polish people was well known, and the prominent part
he took in every work of charity was notorious; and
both by his friends in particular and the public at large,
Lord Dudley Stuart was held in the highest es-
tirna.tion.—Xlreat applause.) The difficulty which
he (Mr. Mackinnon) felt in addressing them on the
present occasion arose, not from the paucity of subjects
which he would bring before their notice, but from the
multiplicity of opinions whioh he would lay before thew,
to show what was the present extraordinary abomination
of the practice of burying in towns. He had travelled
almost over Europe ; and he agreed with what his
Noble Friend had said with regard to the practice of in-
terment in Ireland; and strange it was to say that in that
coun try, which was certainly not equal to England in point
of civilization, there was no interment in towns. He had
travelled in France, and there he had seen the greatest
decorum shown towards the dead. He believed that
Napoleon decreed during his Consulate that no cemetery
should exist within a mile, or two thousand feet
from the outside of a town ; and they invariably found
e whenever they travelled in France, that the cemeteries
ww err ee always to the north of a town, and at a certain dis-
tancecoomutmoitfted in
it.—(Hear,
the h
hear.)orial of
Thethe d
atrocities
his e
whichity
would harrow up their souls, and would only excite feel-
ings of disgust without answering any purpose. He
would not dwelt o
just tell them of ono t
500 on
such horrible details; but he would
instance, and of one alone. There
was a churchyard neyardsra from the spot where they
were. Overlooking that graveyard, lived an unfortunate
tailor who had nothing tut
When he was asked why he lived 711
replied, that in consequence of the impurity ofetea spa9irt,thhotit
seoahnodrAT daughter.
s so very cheap as to be arietchiLitheenedoersphlsms
His medical advisers o
strongly rd oghnii lodging
gl means.
wt
O leave that neighbourhood; butntthrewrietihdri,o just
.scanti-
ness of his means prevented him doing so. Within
weeks from the time of his going thearse
taken ill with typhus, died, and
Mackinnon) w
might i
his
daughter also. say.N Now A efviathawt
udnaldserahf
tiesrnwoasred,s hhee(Nllors.t
his
wretched
ofriend
individual
inh
twas
e world, and
scarcelyableseteoinogbtda
obtain work,
hwotrke,
having
graveected where h he i s wife
disgustand
and
anwerece oa laid,
it , waswitnessing
sssui
ng
b-
jshuo,rtlop shortly
and
afterwardsctit
ttoh remainsepi e
es
before
eoffo
rhei s
his
sfe
faceand daughter
gilter
d
inhuman brutes who were digging graves the
be-
low his window.—(Great sensation.) Ought such
things to be tolerated in a civilised country ?—(Ap-
plame.) They knew what had taken place in Enon
Chapel, not 300 yards from that place; and ho would
pass over all those details, being perfectly satisfied there
was not one individual present who was not perfectly
convinced in his own mind, that such abominable prac-
tices ought to be done away with.—(Applause,) So far
as their feelings went, there could be no doubt on the
subject; but tlicro wits a much graver and more impor-
tant question than their feelings, and that was th'.;ir
health. He had had an opportunity as Chairman rat the
Committee of the House of Commons of examir,no any

medical man whom he thought fit in this
mighty metropolis. The evidence of Dr. Cham-
bers, Dr. Brodie, and of many other individuals of
high character, showed that they, one and all, came to
a clear mid distinct conclusion that it was most delete-
rious to the health of the community to have the burial
of the dead in the midst of the living. There could be
no doubt as to the fact. Many who wera in the enjoy-
ment of good health might ssy they had constantly
passed that place in the Strand where those bodies were
interred, and they had felt no injury from the miasma
arising from the catacomb; beneath them. But that did
not follow. The medical men said that it did not follow

that people felt the injury at the moment, nor that a man
in perfect health and the full enjoyment of his spirits
would be seized with illness; but if a person wes in a
particular state of body, he was the person to take disease
from tie gases, and a serious illness might ensue,
without the man's knowing whence it arose. Was it
not the case in this great city, that when they entered a
place of worship, where their feelings ought to be di-
reeted to the contemplation of ;the goodness of the Al.'
mighty, and their thoughts to the reformation of their
future manners, that they were offended by the noisome
smells which circulated round the
.sacred building? In
the Bill which he had the honour of preparing for the
House of Commons, there was a particular provision
that clergymen should have the same fees paid
to them whether the poor were buried in the
parish or out of the parish. Consequently,
the individual most sensitively alive to the welfare
of the clergy would agree with him that the clause in
the Bill which provided that the fees should be paid in
the same manner as before would answer every purpos-.
With regard to the expense consequent upon taking the
dead without the town for interment, there were many
schemes presented to the Committee, by which it was
shown that the poor could be interred out of town at a
cheaper rate than they were at present.—(Applause.)
Two plans had been suggested to him as chairman of the
Committee. It was (and it would be done with much
greater decorum and much greater respect to the feelings
of the poor) by a steam-boat constantly plying up and
down the river, into which the dead bodies of the, poor
might he deposited, and carried either up or down the
river ; for example, to the Isle of Dogs, where some de-
cent place of interment could be provided, or at some
other place on the river. By so doing they would occa-
sion a great saving to the poor-rates, for it was
perfectly clear that if they allowed those
poor creatures to catch disease, and very often to meet
their deaths from the impurity of the atmosphere, when
they were confined to those localities where the dead
were interred, the parish would be saddled with a great
expense in maintaining those poor persons during their
iilness, and that by adopting a contrary practice, a
great saving of money to the community
and of the population itself would be the result. He
could not, therefore, think otherwise than that the ob-
ject which they sought to accomplish would indeed be a
great benefit to the nation. A French medical man had
of late published a treatise, in which he stated that after
having visited Egypt, and investigated fully and dis
tinctly the cause of the plague in Egypt, he came to the
conclusion, which he was ready to prove by the evidence
which came before him, that the plague in Egypt never
broke out till after they had ceased to embalm their
dead, and had begun to inter them near inhabited places.
—(Cheers.) That was a most singular fact. Now, not
less than five different reports had been made by
five different authorities on this subject, and those five
different authorities had uniformly pronounced in favour
of the advantage cf removing the dead from the pre-
cincts of large towns. Those constituted authorities,
including the Ecclesiastical Commission, which was
chiefly composed of clergymen and gentlemen belonging
to the Church, had one and all united in making:a report
that the practice of interment in large towns ought to be
done away with. The first was the Ecclesiastical Com-
mission; the next was the commission that was ap•
pointed by the Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment, and was entrusted to that very Wonted gentleman,
Mr. Chadwick, the Secretary of the Poor-law Commis-
sion. Mr. Chadwick, after patient investigation, in a work
which did him infinite credit, stated distinctly that it was
impossible to arrive at any other conclusion but that
interments in towns was a practice that ought to be dono
away with altogether.—(Cheers.) Three official reports
were'reade by the Committee of thellouse of Commons, of
which he was chairman, and that Committee distinctly
reported, that after all the evidence which had come
before them it was absolutely ,necessary that some legis-
lative enactment should take plac e Two other reports
from two other constituted bodies arrived precisely at
the same conclusion. Now, he left them to judge
what could possibly be the reason, when they
found the reports of Committees and Commissioners
made up by the most industrious and talented men, who
had access to every sort of information, why that etact-
ment was not brought forward,—(Applause.) What
was the cause? Was it that the Government was sluggish
on the occasion ? Ho sincerely believed not; he had re-
ceived an assurance to the contrary.—(Applause.) It
was the duty of the meeting to push this matter to an
extremity. They ought not to allow a few private in-
dividals, for their own private interest, to tell them (the
meeting) what they should do or should not do. A change
they would have; they would have the interment of the
dead out of the precincts of large towns; they would have
" a long pull, a strong pull, and a pull altogether."
He must make one observation of one individual on his
right, who had taken infinite pains, who had already
laid out a good deal of money, who had bestowed a great
deal of his talents and a great deal of his time, which
was as valuable as his money, and who was the first in-
dividual who had pointed the attention of the public to
the subject. On his representations his (Mr. Mackin-
non's) attention had been attracted to the subject, and
he was induced to bring it before Parliament. He
meant Mr. George Alfred Walker.—(Loud cheers.)
Amongst Englishmen " fair play was a jewel," and
fair play ought to prevail in this case. Mr. Walker
was really the individual who deserved all the praise
and who first gave a spur to the subject.—(Applause.)
tie was only doing justice to his respected friend, and
he (air. Mackinnon) trusted ho would see his great
exertions crowned with the success which they deserved.
In many of the cities of the continent they saw gorgeous
palaces, but they scarcely ever saw there any of those
habitations for the poor, the infirm, the sick, and the
diseased which were to be seen in the city of London.
The first thing which foreigners saw after passing
Greenwich was the Dreadnought hospital ship,
" supported by the voluntary contributions of all
nations;" and when an individual entered

Hyde-park he saw St. George's Hospital, open to all men
who had met with accidents, and " supported by
voluntary contributions." In every part of England
they saw buildings with similar inscriptions. He (Mr.
Mackinnon) never saw such inscriptions in foreign
countries; and it only showed how superior in good
feeling was this happy island, though in saying that he
meant no disparagement to other nations. Now Eng-
land, being the most prosperous country in the world,
looked up to by foreign nations, as well as envied by
them, fur our wealth and civiliz ttion, was it not a shame
and disgrace that we, having all that wealth and
civilization, and happiness, with the bountiful
donations which were given yearly, monthly,
and weekly for the poor, should allow so crying
an abomination as that of the interment within the pre-
cincts of towns to exist in this country?—(Cheers.) If
they did not remedy that crying evil, he should not bo
surprised if some plague should sweep through the land,
when nothing would remain but regret at not having put
a stop to the shocking desecration of the dead amidst the
living at an earlier period. Let them, therefore exert
themselves and sign a petition to Parliament. In this
country, whatever the influence might be that existed in
the Government or the Houses of Parliament, it was
nothing when compared with the influence of public
opinion.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman concluded
by moving the following resolution:—
" It having been repeatedly demonstrated that the
practice of burying the dead in the midst of the living
produces the most deplorable consequences to the health
of the community, by poisoning the air we breathe and
the water we drink, this meeting deeply regrets that a
question involving the disposal of some 600,000 bodies,
the annual mortality of the United Kingdom, should not
have taken precedence of all others in the sanitary mea-
sures passed in the last session of Parliament. That more
especially at the present time, when cholera is among us,
the constant disturbance of dead bodies, in every stage of
decomposition, and the exposure of human remains in
consequence of the incessant upturning of the soil for
the purpose of making graves in places long since filled
to repletion—ought to be instantly abolished. That this
meeting also protests most strongly, on the ground of
the utter worthlessnes. of the protection thereby afforded
to the public health, and for other cogent reasons, against
the practice of depositing bodies in vaults, or other re-
ceptacles, under churches or chapels, whether in leaden
or pitched " coffins; and therefore it records its unqua-
lified condemnation of clause 112 of the City sanitary
measure, which in the year 1848 legalized this most ob-
jectionable and destructive custom."—(Cheers.)
Mr. WALKER. said—My Lords, ladies, and gentlemen,
if the two sanitary measures passed during the last ses-
sion of Parliament had recognised the importance of the
question which we have met to discuss, we should not
have been here to protest against the continuance of
a practice which I believe to be disgraceful
to our ago of civilization.—(Hear, hear.) Amongst
some 400 clauses in these two Acts, there are only six
which give the slightest attention to this question. It is
true that clause 112 of the City Sewers Act provides
that at least five feet of earth should be placed over
each coffin. Now I scarcely know on what ground that
legislation has been performed, for the predecessors of
these men, in the time of the great plague in London,
ordered, imperatively ordered, that at least six feet of
earth should be placed over each coffin.—(Cheers.)
Therefore, I say, I can scarcely understand why, in the
earth t
misnomer;
sufficient.endrfo;ancitg nnroeeytoda.
yn oaßrt (ui But
i particle
tell
otcyhfo
you
uh
composed
03
originaletermetd hoi
nf
k` earthmehmaotua lndt,
h'r'caeomehi
year 1848, they should think five feet of
s
earth
r t ha
f
d warnings and
13—thatat
very face of unmistakeabpleredfi
;nut
erbrdeoes
dc kal
ne reckless s dete
efibabnoc consequences,ro
with its fellow.—(Cheers.) I
y
they
our h vaults nolaffa
andctrrihtneesess:
us e
for graveyards,
centuries,m ftn
yetof offerwh ie
tbo, althoughthe
we go on heaping body upon
defunct
eroteave boeefn
in
the
present " last resting places," in the midst of integers
incom-
pletely decomposed debris of generations of the t.
Graves can only be dug by and through the agencypas
of the baring ro 1, the hatchet, the saw, tho
sledge•hammor and the crow-bar.—(Hear.) Christian
men's graves do not require implements and tools like
these, yet they are daily, hourly used (I say this ad-
visedly), and I repeat they are hourly used in these con-
secrated grounds—these sanetuaries—these resting-
places of our ancestors.—(Cheers.) Putting out of the
question for the moment, the lolly and wickedness
',if interring' the dead in the midst of the liviog, I would
wish to cl)::crvo VIA ave.:, see ;acts on retard
which will satisfactorily prove to every indivi-
dual present the absolute necessity of prohibiting
hear.) This huge, this
at onto this practice.—(Hear,