The Sun.
London, England, 1814-07-12 00:00:00

GENERAL CONGRESS.

Lord HOLLAND seeing a Noble Lord now in his
place wished to put a question to hint on the sub-
ject of the. approaching -Congress. The Noble
Lord would not surely suspect him of a wish to
obtain inforun on those points which could
not, With any regard to discretion or propriety, be
at present made public. lie found in the Treaty
of Peace the folloi.ving words Within two
Months all the Powers who have been engaged on
either side, in the present war, shall send Ple-
nipotentiaries to Vienna, to regUlate in .a general
Congress the arrangements necessary to complete
the stipulations of the present sTreaty:"—Now
he wished to. know from MiniSters what Powers
were considered as coming under this. descrip-
tion.? if independent states were meant, then
all Powers who were independent at the break—
ing out of the war between England 'and France
were invited to this General Congress.—lie
Wished then to know, whether Genoa, and
tire' other Principaldes and States of Europe, in
a similar situation, were considered, as entitled to
send DePutieS-to this-Congress,-and if they should
send such Deputie's; if'they would he received
If the Noble Lord should this question in'
the negative, then he would follow up this tines-
thin by a motion on .the stibject.
.Th:...Earl of LIVERPOOL said, the. question of
'the 'Noble' Lord involved sonic cOnsiderations.
of great delicacy, resnecting which, lie hardly
knew what answer could at present be made:. He
would inforin the Noble Lord, however, that the
zi,si.ription of States understood to be compre-
hended in the Treaty, as having a right to send!
Deputies to-the Congi'ess, was all those countries
who were in a state of independence at the lireak
ing out of_ the late war, and who were de facto
engaged in the late war, either with the Allies or
with Vnince: Icy the late war was understond,the
war since 1803 ;
,though Austria, Prussia, and
Raisin, had had smveral raptures, nego.ci3tions,
and pacifications; in the course of that period.. L-
- lie did not conceive that the clause was bind-
ing on any Power but those which were, de facto,..
independent Powers. and engaged in the las't ge-
neral warfare with France,

Lord [lot-LAND said his question was directed
to what the fate of the countries mentioned by
him was to be ; he was aware that any treat, or
arrangements could only be obligatory on the per-
sons who signed
• The Loan Charge Bill went throngh a Com-
mittee, and the Report was.atterwards received. 7—
Adjourned to this day.

. .
ioluiry, he .thought that it would not 'be expe-.
client for Parliament to interfere.
Lord EBRINGTON said, that as the Nobler-Lord
could give no information, he iyould
a motion to tile House upon the sub,,-:el. '
Lord CASTLEREAGH added, that he
.should de-
precate any motion, since Clie Croivli was the foun-
tain of mercy, and the House hail nil julisdiction.
If the Nobie Lord did persist, he \y'ould
petit' that the day fixed inight he as late ;:is. pos.-
Aibke, in order that. in 'int, meant the deeision
of the proper nyaiinrity urgitt be niad • •
Loin. EpRINGDON .rcjoired, that his Motion
would be for an .address; to the Crown; priiying
that that part df-the'ervienee•that relatei to the
pillor,y•wightbc niitii;ated, on toe ground of Lord
Coaranc's: professional services. ,

. -•
- • Lord, CASTLERgA-ex remarked, that it woMd,he
a delicate yiestion•,..‘vheths..,r the profesional ser-
vices of Lord Cochrane placed hitn upoira aide-
rent tooting to•that :of the' other prisoners.: He
hoped that a dktant day wOnid he: named for the
motion,

Lord EBRINGTON named to-hiOrroW-se'itiviL,ht.
Mr• .TLERNEIr wished to know, whether the
Judge's RepOrt would. be made by that day ? -
Mr. Wu ITBREAI) asked, V.' )el:,t'i• the cases of all
the. parties would be considered under Mr. Butt's
Petition, or whetlitir only that of. the individual ;
were all the cases referred to the Judge
'Lord CASTLEREAGH was not prepared to give
any decisive.answer, but he apprehended that all
the cases Would be included in' the consideration
of the Judge who tried the cause.
The ATTO NEY-GEN ERAL said, that the refer-
ence to the Judge was made that the Crown might
receive the rt quisite information. It did nut ne-
cessarily follow that the Judge would givs any
opinion upon the propriety of remitting, tne,,sen-
tence, that was a matter for the decision of the
Crown.

Mr. WHITBREAD noticed a previous. case, where
the Secretary of State had informed him, that ti►e
Judge was called upon .to give an opinion.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied, that ►t was
.true that the Judge ►night include-is own opinion,
hut it was not indispensibly necessary that he
should do so. Fle.himself had, as a Judge of
Assize, frequently beau called upon to make re-
ports .on the cases of criminals, and. he had not
always included his own recommendation:

Lord EBRINGTON fixed to-morrow sennight for
his motion.

ARMY ESTIMATES.

. Lord PALMERSTON having moved that the House
.resolve itself into a Committee of Snpply, to take
the .Anny'Estimates into consideration ;
~,klr. Fa E EMANTIE orged the necessity of having
a,proper understanding respecting the.general out-
line Of the. peace estiiblishment; before the close
of the Session.. The country
,had long since.been
told, that as soon-7as liaonaparte's :ioverninent
should be overthrow t, the public expenniture
would be considerably curtailed.. Theciverthrow
of Buonaparte had now, been, effected, and the
',people bad yiglit to. expect a greater diminu! ion ,
than that which bud hitherto been proposed. The
House ought not-to we tiatisfied Nvith a reduction
of 2,000,0001. out of a yearly:.,expenditure Of 17
• millions,. As to the expence respecting Gene-
ral Officers, be approved of that
,alteration.—
lt,,was fair' to make such a compensation to so
meritorious a class. He thought the House and
the country had a right to complain't hat no:Mi-
. nister, on any. opportunity, had stated on What
scale the,expenditure of the peace establishment
should be placed. It would certainly be diaL;ilt
.to give an;exact. estimate., but a' general one iwas
easy. As it was, the Members _of the 'House
would return to then constituents, who knew that
through the privations they had endured the war
bad been. brought to a successful cerittimation,
without being able to tell theiti what thershoidd
have- to pay, but only that ;on all estimates,
the House had .voted in thne of peace. for a
war establishment. He thought the fairest esti-
mate 'would be that taken front the scale. ex ist-,
ing
,before the last revolutionary war with France,
,because the country seemed now as securely
placed.in the enjoyment of peace as at that period.
It .w.as,true it might be said the cases were not pa-
i'allcl, as were now. at Nvtir with America,--
But in the last•years of the .American war, the _
expenditure had notbeen more than seven millions
.(though we were not-fighting with America alonebut ,
witli France her, ally across'. the 'Atlantic),
whilst for_the last -,two years the war expenditure
had • risen to more than 40 Might not
the Peace Establishment he:at least put on the
same footing as it) the 14st. years'of the Atue.ri-
can. War ?, Should such an estimate be made,
then. it wOuld become Inctimbent :On • Minis-
.ters to, show the necessity of every, depar-
ture from It. The Honourable • Centleman then
entered. ioto •a, comparative view of • the ex-
pences of the country at former and present times.
The staff and garrison. ekpence Was formerly only
ma:, for the last five years it had been 200,0001.
The ordnance, estimates., which used not to exceed
400,0001-.. had last year been several nrilliuns. ".I'he
Civil List from 895,0001.. had risen 0, 1,200,0001.
Ant die. interest of the • debt from 9,000,0001:to.
upwards. of 40,000,0001. 'About 'the same period
fr9m.which ,he had taken 'those statements Mr.
Pitt had estituated•the whole expellee of the coun-
try at 14,400,0001. Why not take this as' the'
proper scale of the Peace Establishment ? He con_
Chided, ,by expressing his conviction, that if this
g a
mode were adopted, the country would be satis-
fied, and by urgming the -necessity of givin
clear insight into the proposed amount of the
Peace Establishment.

Mr. BENNETT, after- adverting to gevexal
grounds of expellee, wished to know whether it
was in contetnplation to keep a large f.drce;in
Sicily., In that islan(l.We had acted in 'the nian-
ner of Buonaparte, We had set up tl son tigaitiq
his father, and destroyed an,atieknt ennsiitntion,
-to establish one which, though it• promised. li-
berty, only produced oppression. There-We'had,
published,PrOtlamations similar in spirit to--tilose
of. Our new. Ally at Madrid, in '‘vhich ti,e7threst-
ened to punish. as disturbers of pnblie•tratiqraltjy
those who opposed the execti-tion of our.ol:inS!
Was a Government to be forced -on that -people
by the presence of troops, and the•dread
of `urli-
tary execution ?.

. e
Lord PALMERSTON ..—The services of 'the -Vete-
ran Battalions were .by no •tneans • overlooked or