The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-13 00:00:00

more constitutional, than calling on the country afterwards to
pay the debt.
Lord ALTHORP said that it would have been unconstitu-
tional to have taken the ',pinion of Aliellousg +ipon the sum to
be expOidecil. as that wqs oup of the prerogatives of the Crown.
hear:) The }Too. Oentliftnan had also Said ;.lie Corona-
tion ought not to take place, the King having takeft the oaths, in
that fact the Hon. Member was mistaken ; the King had not
taken the oaths which by the Act of Parliament were fixed to be
taken at the Coronation, and it was therefore essentially necessary
that that important ceremony should take place. With regard
to the expense of the late Coronation, he (Lord Althorp) agreed
with the Hon. Member, that the hire of the jewels was extremely
extravagant. At the present moment it was impossible for him
to give any definitive answer to the Hon. Member, but this he
would say that he was • perfectly satisfied the expense of
the present Coronation tould hot be more, than one-fifth
of the c*l4cne of Rif', last. SHear, hear.) He. trtisted that in-
formation would be satisfactory to the Hon; Wmber and the
House.

Mr. JAMES having received an answer to his first question,
wished to put another, which was, whether there was to be any
accommodation for the Members of the present House at the
Coronation. In doing so he begged to state he was not aware of
any necessity for his Majsty to take any further oath than that
which he had already done.
Lord Althorp made no answer.
Mr. GILION deprecated such questions lacing asked as the
House was at present constituted ; and thought that the Mi-
nisters would have questions relating to expenses much
inure properly-put to them by a reformed House of Commons,
when the Manse would he cleansed of the dross which now en-
cumbered it.—(Ci ies of Hear, and Oh !")
Mr. HUNT said he could see no Members in that House who
were the representatives of the people except the Hon. -Member
for Preston (Mr. John Wood,) and himself.—(Laughter.) With
regard to the Coronation he could not but observe, that
when the Honourable Member fur Carlisle (Mr. W. James,)
was blaming the late King for his extravagance he was called to
order ; but when he praised the present King nothing of that
kind took place. He wished to know whether the present King
.vvas not as much attached to the Wellington Administration
when it was in existence as he now was to the present Adminis-
tration.—(Cries of hear, and oh.) •
Sir 11. HARDINnE would not say whether his present Ma-
jesty was more or less attached to the late or present Admini-
stration, but he boged to observe, in answer to the observa-
tions made by an hidnourable Member (Mr. Gillon), that such '
pert "and flippant remarks would always meet with his most utter
contempt.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He was as much an
independent Member of this House NOW, that he sat for what was
called a nomination borough, as he was when he sat for the city
of Durham —(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of CHANDOS wished to know, what was the in-
tention of his Majesty's Ministers with regard to sitting of the
House at the time of the Coronation, and whether there was to
t:e any and what adjournment. If answering the question was at
present inconvenient to the Noble Lord (Althorp) he should not
press it.
Lord ALTHORP said it was impossible for him, at the pre-
sent moment, to answer that question.
Mr. O'CONNELL hoped that by that period the House would
have arrived at the Irish Reform Bill, and that there would be as
little delay as possible.
The House then resolved itself-into a Committee on the Re-
form Bill. Mr. BERNAL in the Chair.

The CHAIRMAN then rose to put the first question "clause
13, that the following counties return three Members each, viz.,
Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire, Dorsetshire, and
Herefordsh ire."
Mr. BANKES said he did not intend to propose an additional
Member for the county with which he was connected (Dorset-
shire) ; any boon that was offered he would accept ; but at the
same time that he accepted it he could not refrain from snaking a
few observations upon the principle which had • actuated his
Majesty's Ministers in granting four Members for the county
of Cumberland, while they only granted three to the county
of Dorset. The Hon. Member stated, that from lists of
the population, and of the ten-pound houses in each of
the counties, and in each of the represented and un-
represented plaoes in those counties, it was clear that
although Cumberland contained rather more persons, still in
point of wealth, in the number of the le/. houses, and
even of those above 401. a year, the county of Dorset
had considerably the pre-eminence. The House would
be surprised to learn those facts- and then to see that it
was only intended to give Dorsetshire three Members, while a
county inferior in importance and wealth was allowed four
Members. Dorset was, in filet, theonly county that made out a
case of gross injustice ; even according to the principles
which had been laid down by his Majesty's Ministers.—(Hear.)
He was aware that there might be some difficulties; but he did
not, standing on the side of the House on which he
stood, feel himself under the necessity of always pro-
viding a remedy for the evils that might present them-
selves in the course of this debate. It was for those who
were speculating in the introduction of the plans to propose
remedies necessary for subverting the ills which without those
remedies would naturally arise.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM did not think the Hon. Gentle-
man had acted fairly in selecting Cumberland on the present
occasion, to make a contrast with the state of Dorsetshire.
He however did not think the lion. Member was actuated by in-
vidious motives in his selection, although he had made some
painful reflections on his Majesty's Ministers, which would have
amounted, if expressed in plainer terms, to a broad charge of par-
tiality. The reason why the Hon. Gentleman had compared Corn-
berland with Dorset probably was that Dorset was the larger county,
to which three Members were proposed to be given, and Cum-
berland the smallest to which four Members were proposed to
be given. The Honourable Gentleman had not stated the
case so fairly as he might have done. The population he
had given were undoubtedly correct ; but he had omitted to
state what were the number of Memers to be returned from
the counties respectively.—(Hear.) It would appear that
Cumberland under the proposed measure would return eight
and the county of Dorset eleven, even after the alteration of
four Members for the county of Cumberland, and three for the
county of Dorset. In this way Cumberland will return only one
Member for 19,000 inhabitants, and Dorset one for every 13,0 0.
—(Loud cheers.) It would be impossible for the Hon. Member
to deny this short statement, and he (Sir James) was confident
that it would relieve the Government from any charge, directly
or indirectly, of partiality towards Cumberland.
Mr. BANKES regretted that the Right Hon. Gentleman had
takes no notice whatever of one part of his (Mr. Bankes's) state-
ment, namely, that which related to the comparative wealth of
the two counties.
Colonel SIBTHORPE said as he had been alluded to by the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite as being a good driver, he
congratulated himself that he was not the driver or
the leader of his Majesty's Ministers—if he were
he should drive them in a different way to the one they were
taking. Had he only the whip hand of them, though he was sure
they would form an extremely awkward team, yet he should use
his utmost efforts in turning them into a dittbrent road than
the one they were taking.—(Much laughter.) He felt it his duty
without any sort of delicacy, broadly to charge his Majesty's Mi-
nisters with having acted partially. The Gallant Colonel then
made an observation which could not be heard, complaining of
a misrepresentation by the Press of what he had stated last night.
Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS was sick of hearing the giving of
Members to this and to that county talked of as a boon. The ob-
ject of the House ought to be to consider how the representation
could be made in the most convenient and proper way. When
he heard Hon. and Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite talk of this
county having 11 Members, another 10, another eight, and so on,
he could not help turning his attention to Wales, where in
many parts there was only one Member returned for a whole
county. This, however, was not the way to model the
representation in such a manner as to be very satisfactory
to people hereafter. Looking at the population generally, he
thought his Majesty's Ministers act much more wisely in giving
a second Member to some of the Welch counties rather than
thrusting a-third or a fourth Member on more of the English
counties, which were already very well represented in Parliament.
To Scotland was given by the Bill a much larger constituency
than any other part of the kingdom, and yet, the most con-
fined representation. It was five times more confined than
any part of England. Progress had been made in every
department of Scotland ; Members from that quarter would be
an important accession to the House, but both Scotland and
Wales being at a distance from the metropolis, and their Mem-
bers not likely to have so much influence as those near at hand,
their interests had in a great measure been overlooked.
Mr. STUART WORTLEY said the claims of Scotland to an
additional representation were very strong. But as he thought
those claims might more efficiently be urged under a subsequent
part of this Bill, he would reserve his arguments in its favour till
that part of the Bill came before the Committee. As to one part
of the arrangements contained in the clause under consideration,
he would observe, if the House proceeded by the rule of
population, the only just way of distributing population in the
counties, was to deduct from them that portion of popula-
tion in the representation already provided for. Upon this
principle, as well as upon the test of wealth derived from the
amount of the 101. householders, Buckingham had a stronger
claim than Dorset to the privilege held out by the clause.
Mr. GILLON thought it desirable that some additional re-
presentation; should be given to Scotland, and that might be
done without spoliating England of it, present representatives.
He cordially concurred with the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
a boon of fifty Members was given to Scotland, because, in truth,
that part of the country had never before been represented. He
would support this clause because it put an end to compromise.
The Marquis of CHANDOS wished to see the Welsh and
Scotch representation increased, and suggested the propriety of
throwing over the third Members of counties and distributing
them in Scotland and Wales.

He consider:Al the no borough -represented the feelings of the
people in the county of Buckingham more truly than the
boroK,n of Great Marlow did, and he could not see why
it was not entitled to have two Members as well as the
borough of Wycombe: He conside, ed that Ministers were doing
no good by giving the county of Buckingham three Members,
which he firmly believed would be the means of creating
continual contests, and would prevent the real opinion of
the freeholders being known. He objected, therefore, to the
grant of his Majesty's Ministers to Buckingham of an additional
Member, and trusted that the Noble Lord (John Russell) would
give additional Members to Wales and Scotland. He thought
that the present Members for Buckingham sufficiently repre-
sented the county.
Lord A LTHORP observed that with respect to the present
clause he considered the Noble Lord was arguing against him_
self. It was difficult to say what was the amount of representa-
tion that should be allotted to particular counties. But the Mem-
bers for boroughs under the present Bill would be more likely
to represent the interests of the counties than under the system
of representation as now existing. In arranging the number
Government had taken their interests into
coofncsoiNenrtayti3em
oinsbeepra'Ately from those of boroughs. He (Lord
Althorp) did not lay much stress on the cases brought forward,
nor, indeed, could he see how the consequences referred
to by the Noble Lord, would result from the present measure.
The Marquis of CHANDOS felt no doubt of its having the
effect he had stated, and briefly observed, that sooner than
enter into any coalition with respect to Bucks, he would give up
his own seat.----(Hear.)
Mr. RICKF'ORD protested against any diminution of the
Members for Bucks.
(LEFT SITTING.)
(We shall give the conclusion in a SECOND EDITION.)

DEATH OF THE RIGHT REVEREND DR.
COPPINGER.-We have just this moment (Thursday,
half-past three) had an express from Cove, stating the
death of this illustrious Prelate. His Lordship's remains
will be removed from his house on Friday morning, at
nine o'clock, to the chapel, and after a solemn high mass
and office for the dead, they will bc deposited in the tomb,
erected for their reception, in the chapel yard of Cove.
The venerable Bishop was in his 713th year, and conse-
crated Bishop in 1788.--Cork Onslitution.