The Sun.
London, England, 1825-02-17 00:00:00

THE TIMES.]

The debates on Mr. Goulburn'S motion, after
three adjournments, and four nights of protracted
discussion, terminated yesterday morning in a di-
vision of 278 for Ministers, and 123 against them,
leaving, as to numbers a large majority in favour
of the introduction of this new penal measure.
The general grounds on which the motion might
be supported or resisted, as well as a wide range
of collateral subjects more or less closely con-
nected with it, were pretty well exhausted before
the debate of Tuesday evening began. The in-
terest, however, excited in the course of that
evening was far more intense and animated than
any which had sprung up in earlier stages of the
discussion, due exception being made on behalf
of the display by Messrs. Plunkett and Tierney
on-Friday last. This arose as well from the per-
sonal nature of-the topics selected by Mr. Canning,
as from the general ability of his speech, and from
those powerful appeals to the sense and feeling
of Parliament, which were put forth by Sir
Francis Burdett and Mr. Brougham. It would
be difficult to describe the merit or the effect of
the speech of the Member for Westminster by
the most faithful report, or the most dincrirni-
eating comment. Its leading character was con-
stitutional spirit : its incidents and ornaments
were singleness of purpose, ardour of conviction,
gentlemanly candour towards those whom he
opposed, anti an energy of expression that went,
straight home to the minds of all his hearers.—
This was the proper and becoming discourse of
an independent senator and an honest English-
man.—Of Mr. Brougham's speech we shall notice
one passage only ; and it is one which Ministers
will hardly thank us for recalling to the attention
of their friends or enemies. Mr. Canning stated,
as every body knows, that it was impossible to
carry the Catholic question against the prepos-
sessions of the people. Now mark Mr. Brougham's
reply, for it is a sharp rebuke to Mr. Canning's
argument, so far as the Right Hon. Gentleman
meant that observation as an excuse for some of
his colleagues ; though we admit with pleasure
that in one respect it casts no reproach upon the
conduct of the Secretary for Foreign Affairs.
‘! Even," says Mr. Brougham—" even Suppose
" the country was against them, should that
" dishearten Ministers ? Why not set them-
" selves against the current, and endeavour to
" allay it ? Did they always act in such fear
" and terror of public opinion ? What was the
" opinion of the public in 1820, when that
" most infamous and disgraceful measure—the
" trial of the Queen—was brought forward ?
" What were the feelings of the country when
she was subjected to so shameful a persecu-
" lion ? Ministets felt no reluctance to con-
" front those feelings, to beard public opinion,
" to oppose themselves to the wishes of the
" whole population. The clergy, the army, the
" country gentlemen, were averse to it. There
" were all these great interests in battle array
" against the wish of a single mind ; and yet Mi-
nisters never made a pause in their disgrace
ful and disgusting course. Were there any
" great reasons of state to enforce it ? No ; but
" there was one person who held in his hand
"- the issues of officiel life; and to gratify a Royal
" and excusable ca price—excusable in the indi-
" vidua;, but not in those who yielded to it—to
his prepossessions they made themselves slaves
with unhesitating baseness." I Ins, we re-
Peat, is fatal to Mr. Canning,'s defence of
the Cabinet, though the Right Hottourle Gen-
t-Iran partook not- in their scandalous treatment
of the Queen. Again, for the Foreign Secretary
himself, and the sacrifice which he made of the
representation of Oxford to his zeal for Catholic
emancipation. We should like to know what

Nobleman at this moment is Chancellor of the
University of Oxford ? Lord Grenville must be
the reply ;—and yet Lord Grenville was known
to all the world to be a friend to emancipation,
as warm and conscientious as the Right Hon.
.Gentleman. If, then, his sentiments on that ques-
tion threw Mr. Canning out of the representation,
why was Lord Grenville elected Chancellor of that
learned and Protestant body—elected, too, in
opposition to Lord Eldon, the champion of the
Orange cause ? No, no—there must have been
something over and above their politics in the
characters of the chosen lord, and of the rejected
commoner, to affect the pretensions of each in a
manner so strikingly different. This was no sa-
crifice to principle.

[NEw TIMES.]
The numbers on the division of Tuesday night,
or rather of yesterday morning, speak volumes as
to the sentiments of Englishmen on the Catholic
Association. It is not quite four years since Mr.
Plunket moved for the appointment of a Com-
mittee " to consider of the laws affecting Roman
Catholics." That motion was supported by 253
votes, and was carried by a majority of 6 in
favour of the Catholics. Mr. Goulburn's motion
for leave to bring in his Bill was supported by
278 votes, and was carried by a majority of
155 against the Catholic Association. Here, then,
is a marked and striking distinction between the
Catholics and the Catholic Association. It is

the same House of Commons (with a very few
changes) which furnishes both majorities. It is
the same !louse which, in 1821, evinced towards
a numerous body of his Majesty's subjects the
most conciliatory sentiments,and in the year 1825
stamps a factious and dangerous assemblage wi►h
its severe reprobation. And this latter senti-
ment, at least, is in full accordance with the
judgment of the whole people of England.
This affords a complete justification to those
Members of the Cabinet who deem the claims
of the Catholics founded in justice, and
yet resist the manner in which those claims

are sought to be enforced by the Association.
Would it be constitutional for a Minister
to oppose an immense majority of the House
of Commons, hacked by a still greater majority
of the people ? Would it be rational in any Mi-
ni.ter to allow a factious body to dragoon the
Government into a measure which he even deem-
ed abstractly right ? So much for the general
question as applicable to Mr. Canning and seve-
ral of his colleagues ; but the speech of the
Right Honourable Secretary derives a peculiar
value as .an historical record, from the com-
plete and unanswerable justification which
it contains of his own personal conduct
on the Catholic Question. Having formed, to-
gether with his early friends, Mr. Pitt and Lord
Wellesley, an opinion favourable to the Catholic
Claims, he has acted up to that opinion through-
out his political life. He has made sacrifices
to it of no common magnitude. In the year 1812,
that glorious year when the tide first turned de-
cidedly against the Spoiler of Europe, and when,
as Mr. Canning emphatically says, he would have
given ten years of life for two of office—at that
critical and alluring period he refused office to
adhere to principle. But Mr. Canning is not
only a politicia►►, he is a literary man. We re-
member him at Oxford as distinguished in that
sphere as he now is in the sphere of polical ac-

on. He declares it to have been his earliest arnhi-

tion to represent that University in Parliament ;
yet knowingly and voluntarily did he abandon the
Gratification of that deep rooted desire, that he
might. adhere to his principles on the Catholic
Question.—This part of Mr. Canning's speech is
the more worthy of remark, because so far from

being addressed in terms of flattery to the Ca-
tholics, to conciliate their favour, it is accompa-
nied with the distinct avowal that he knows him-
self to be unpopular with them, and unpopular
because he does not and will not act on their
suggestions, or with an exclusive view to their
interests. lie adds, moreover, some string re-
marks on the improper temper with which they
have often urged their claims, on the improper
spirit in which they have received legislative bene-
fits,and on the want of gratitude which they have
evinced to their tried and faithful friends. These
reproaches are hut too well deserved by the Ca-
tholics as a body ; yet it would be unjust not
to add, that there are, especially among Catho-
lics of the higher ranks i❑ England, many ho-
nourable exceptions from this censure. There
are in the class to which we allude individuals of
unimpeachable loyalty and attachment to the
Constitution—men fully sensible of the gratitude
they owe to his late and present Majesty—to the

Legislature—and to the individuals %vho._have
advocated their cause in and out of Parliament.
Our deep regret has been to see that the influ-
ence of such persons among the Catholic Body
has of late been obscured—it has been weighed
down by the violence of the Leaders of the Ca-
tholic Association. When that factious and per-
nicious Body is dissolved, we may hope that the
Catholics will once more submit to prudent di-
rection, and trust the success of their Claims to
the effect of " cool, dispassionate disscussion in
the two Houses of Parliament."

[MOR?iING HERALD.
The unfortunate subject which has hitherto
occupied so much of the attention of Parliament,
will not, we trust, prevent the Chancellor of the
Exchequer from bringing forward his plan of
Finanee for the year on the day which he had
named for that purpose, viz. the 25th inst., as it
is extremely desirable that a measuse of such ge-
neral importance should be made known as early.
as possible. A pretty general expectation, we
believe, prevails, that the whole, or greater
part, of the Assessed Taxes wilt he remitted,
and "that a considerable diminution will take
place in the duties on Foreign «'inn• The, lat-
ter trade is said to be in almost a 'state of.
stagnation, In consequence of the uncertainty
which prevails upon the subject. Of course, no
one Will purchase wine subject to a high duty,
While there is a pri,bability that in a month or
• two that duty will be taken off. , It i 4 much lime
same with persons who are forming or altering
their establishments ; as well as the many Gard-
lit.s who are ready to return from abroad in the

event of the Assesed Taxes being reduced. It is,
therefore, highly desirable that as little time as
possible should be lost in making known to the
public what it is that they are to expect. It is
quite obvious that the indirect taxes are those
which flourish the most, are the most readily paid,
and are the least felt. The man who will
grumble all the year round at the tax upon
his house and windows, and who views the un-
fortunate collector of it in no better light than a
thief, will pay twice as much to Government in
articles of luxury and comfort without complain-
ing. There are, besides, a class of people to
whom every favour should be shown, but on
whom the Assessed Taxes press with great and
unavoidable severity—we mean persons who
have large families, and such as are compelled to
be housekeepers, and to keep up a certain ap•
pearance in life, however ill able they may be to
maintain it. Of the Wine Duties we are anxious to
see a reduction from a conviction that it would
produce rather an increase than a diminution of
the revenue, and that the increased consumption
of Foreign Vines would open new channels in
return fur our trade and manufactures. We dare
say that there are other heads of taxation which
will be pressed upon Parliament for relief ; but
none, we think, with Such strong claims as these.
At all events, the sooner public expectation is
set at rest the better, as uncertainty is a serious
loss to the revenue as well as inconvenience to
individuals.

[MORNING CHRONICLE.]
In the interval between the first and second
act of the great Catholic Association Drama or
Tragi-comedy, we may advert to a minor circum-
stance, which, some how or other, found its way
into it, but which we could not before notice. We
allude to the notice taken by Dr. Lushington of a
publication of a particular description, well known
now in all parts of this metropolis—the Memoirs
of Harriette Wilson. " What (said the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman), if it should appear from
the recorded proceedings of the University Club,
that two such entries as he should state were
inserted-' The Memoirs of Harriette Wil-
son—ordered ;'—' A Plain Bible, rejected.'—
What were the prominent features in the Me-
moirs he did not pretend to know, but, from
what he understood, they very particularly con-
cerned many Noble Lords, and many Honour-
able Members in that House. They were the
Memoirs, it is said, of " a Lady of Pleasure." We
were glad to learn from Mr. W. Bankes, the
Member for the University of Cambridge, that
the Club had had virtue enough to withstand the
temptation, and that the Memoirs had not been
ordered," though it had, no doubt, been often
inquired for." The lion. Member did not, we
suppose, deem it advisable to advert to the order
for the rejection of the Bible, which, we
imagine, as the members are mostly Clergymen,
originated in a wish to avoid any thing like the
shop, to use a familar expression. With respect
to the Memoirs, our contemporary of The New
Times, let us in some measure into the secret of
what was going on at the University Club in his
number for Monday last—" Chancing (he says)
to pass the publisher's shop on Saturday even-
ing, we saw with dismay the number of persons
that were purchasing obscenity ! Among them
were several whom we remembered to have seen
as servants at the neighbouring Club Houses."
Our contemporary adds, " We know that the
work has been sent to the Continent, and trans-
lations will soon appear in French and German ;
so that many an eminent name will be' shown
up,' as the phrase is, throughout the Empire."—
Shewn up ! Where are we ? In England ? It
cannot be a shewing up ; for are we not the most
moral people in Europe ? Yet, if we are to be-
lieve this calumniator, there is hardly an illus-
trious or exalted name in this country who has
not worshipped at her shrine.

[THE PUBLIC LEDGER.]
The fate of Peru is decided at length in fa-
vour of her legitimate ruler; arid a new era of
justice and happiness has opened upon that coun-
try. This important intelligence is contained in
the Madrid Gazelle of the Bth instant, under
the form of a Gratulatory Address front
Count los Andes, alias Ge.neral la Serna, Vice-
roy of his Catholic Majesty. In this docu-
ment the Count congratulates his victorious Sove-
reign on the entire restoration of his legitimate
authority. It is true, that the Address is dated
as far back as March ; but months are only
dots in the volume of immorality, which is
to register the triumps of this great Monarch. It
is also true, that Bolivar has since then torn down
the sacred ensigns of legitimacy, and planted in
their place the accursed emblems of popular re-
sistance. As the career of usurpation, however,
is short, we suppose that the Madrid Gazelle,
for the purpose of adding its weight to this
maxim, has published the present Address ;
and therefore it is to be considered as a
prediction, and not as a real statement of
facts. This conquering in anticipation, though
it does not produce solid results, has the
advantage of offering some solace under the
pressure of actual reverses ; and it will be seen,
from the extracts we have made from the Buenos
A yros Papers, which arrived yesterday, that
Ferdinand stood in need of the consolation which
visionary triumphs afford, when he published the
gratulatory Address of his Vicegerent. These
Papers represent the Spanish Cause in Peru as
utterly desperate, and its defenders shamefully
disunited, at a moment when the greatest energy
and concord could only protract, but not wholly
avert their ruin.Whilstßolivar,with the main body
of his troops, was acting with his usual vigour
and good fortune against La Serna and Canterac,
another divison of his troop, had appeared before
the gates of Lima ; and the resistance they had
to expect, might be ascertained from the fact
that a small detachment of them had actually en-
tered that city without meeting
with the slightest
molestation. This substantial success of the Pa-
triots is good enough for our plain appetites
whilst the Spanish 11.1onach may regale himself
on such light and delicite viands as artificial
trophies. We observe from the French Papers,
which have furnished us with extracts from The'
Ma'frid Gazette, that some of the subordinate'

malefactors and minor depredators in the late ini-
quitous attack on the Spanish Nation, are to be
proceeded against by law, on the charge of scan-
dalous peculation. This, however, is a mere
mockery of Justice as long as the principal cri-
minals are at large.

[BRITISH PRESS.]
We had not space yesterday even to publish
the official report to the King of France; respect-
ing the contracts of M. Ouvrard, who, during the
Dauphin's campaign in the Peninsula, found
means to provide the French army, though
at no very reasonable prices, with those sup-
plies of provisions which the regular Commis-
sariat were, or pretended to be, unable to ob-
tain. Our correspondent mentioned some time
ago that the report of the commission would im-
plicate several persons standing high as Military
Intendants in that campaign, and that an attempt
had been made to procure the suppression of the
Report, by representing to the Dauphin that it
would involve in public disgrace some of those
who most largely shared his confidence. His
Royal Highness, it may be remembered, declared
that he would not interfere. "If my confidence
has been betrayed," said the Dauphin, " I am
sorry for those who have abused it ; but I can-
not prevent the truth from being made known,
nor hinder the Commission from discharging the
duty confided to it." The King, it now ap-
pears, has been governed by sentiments equally
honourable and praiseworthy. The Minister of
War prays that justice may be done, and
his Most Christian Majesty answers, by re-
ferring the Report to the Department of Jus-
tice, " to cause the laws of the kingdom to
be executed." M. Ouvrard was arrested a few
weeks ago for debt, and after an ineffectual at-
tempt to obtain his release, committed to the pri-
son of St. Pelagie. In the Etoile of Tuesday, it
is stated, that against Ouvrard, Rollac,and some
others, inculpated in the fraudulent transactions
of 1823, on Saturday last, a suit was commenced
by the French Government. Ouvrard has been
examined, and the seal put upon all his papers.

TRIAL FOR DUELLING.

The trial of JOHN JAMES AMORY, Esq. who
shot the late GEORGE FORBES, Esq. in a duel at
St. Kitt's, on the 3d ult., took place on the 17th.

Mr. FORBES and Mr. AMORY were (as is generally the
case) on terms of the closest intimacy. The latter entertaining
an affection for a Lady in the neighbouring Island of Nevis,
confidentially disclosed it to his friend. Unfortunately the
deceased, some time after, imbibed a similar feeling for the
same lady, made a like confidential disclosure. It was then
agreed between them, that neither should take any steps to ob-
tain the lady's approbation, without communicating his inten-
tion to the other. Mr. A. designing to visit Nevis to declare
himself, and ascertain the sentiments of the lady, asked the
deceased to accompany him, which he declined ; and being
asked again on the same morning whether he intended going,
he replied, " No, I don't think I shall."—Mr. A. was shortly
afterwards informed that his friend was gone to Nevis, and in a
few hours received the following letter :
" MY DEAR A monY—l pledged myself to take no step in
the attainment of the object we both have in view, without ap-
prising you so far of the same, as to give you a fair advantage
in the pursuit. I have every reason to apprehend, from cir-
cumstances that have recently come to my knowledge, that
there is a doubt entertained of the sincerity of my attentions, in
a quarter, where I am most anxious it should be otherwise con-
sidered. 'Tis, consequently, an act of justice to my own feel-
ings, and due to,the lady, to remove any unfavourable impres-
sion of this nature without delay.
" I have hitherto acted undisguisedly and generously towards
you, in a transaction in which, unfortunately, we are most truly
and deeply interested. I.think lam not swerving from the
same line of conduct, in adopting the earliest means in my
power to effect the view mentioned. I shall go no farther ; and
if, after I am known to be serious, you are elected on the occa-
sion, I cannot feel myself deeply disappointed. Whatever our
fate may be, respectively, you may always calculate upon the
sincere friendship of,
_

" Your's, very, try,
EO. FORBES."

Conceiving that this conduct was ungenerous, when he met
the deceased ( who had returned) on the 2d November, he passed
him without notice ; remarking afterwards that he bad cut
Mr. F.'s acquaintance, it was communicated to that Gentle-
man, when some expressions fell from him which produced the
following : , .

. .
" Nov. 2, 1824.
" Sin—By the ter:our of your letter addressed to me on Sa-
turday last, I discover that you have committed a breach of
promise, in consequence of which I can no longer be upon
terms with an individual who has acted so unlike a Gentleman.
" I am, Sir, your obedient servant,
" JOHN JAMES AMORY."
This occasioned a message from Mr. F. whose untimely end
was the melancholy result.
Several gentlemen of the highest respectability gave evidence
as to the honourable manner in which Mr. AMORY had acted
throughout the unfortunate business, the conciliating dispo-
sition he evinced, and the fair and honourable conduct observ-
ed towards the deceased ; and the Jury returned a verdict of—
Not Guilty.

LONDON SE-4SIONS, FEB. 16.

RECORDFR'S CHARGE.-PUGILISM.

The Grand and Petit Juries having been sworn, the RE-
CORDER addressed the former at considerable length. He
was happy to'congratulate the Gentlemen of the Grand Jury
that the calendar of prisoners was much lighter than it had
been at corresponding Sessions in preceding years, nor were
any of the offences marked with any extraordinary degree of
moral turpitude. There was, however, a case of manslaughter,
which would claim their particular attention, and it was pro-
bable, that in the case to which he alluded, a bill for murder
would also be preferred against the accused. It would therefore •
be their province to find either one or the other of the bills or
both, should they think proper, on the evidence which would be
laid before them. The Recorder was extremely sorry to observe,
that that part of the calendar which related to the• county
contained no less number than five cases of manslaughter,
which were alleged to have been committed during the short
interval since the last session. It appeared to him, as it had
to others, that much of. this evil was to be attributed to the
encouragement held to tnose notorious violators of the law de-
nominated pugilists, whose profession it was to fight for money ;
hence it was that the lower classes of the people were frequently
led into disputes, and terminated them in the disgraceful man-
ner to which he alluded. It was lamentable that men of rank
were to be found who debased themselves so low as to sanction
and promote such proceeding which were shameful and flagrant
misdemeanors against the public at large. He (the Recorder)
could not help regretting that persons of distinction should by
their patronage sanction such violations of public peace and
public decency, and thereby contribute.to the deterioration of
• public morals. In order, if possible, to stem this tide of
iniquity, fraught as it was with destruction to human life,
the Court was determined, as far as its power and influence
went, to yield its assistance ; and should any case of this de-
scription conic before the parties convicted should be Pu-
nished with the utmost rigour of the law. The learned Re-
corder also intimated, that not only the principal in such con-
tests, but those who had provoked, excited, or abetted them,
should also be prosecKted, and that neither rank nor station.
should prove a shield against the powerful sword of the
law. • The Recorder attributed the diminution of offence
in the city to the promptness with which the daily prowler
bad h-en prosecuted 'and condignly punished (alluding o
the crime or stealing handkerchiefs, &c.); it there. fore
by such a procedure that crimes of other discrintions might,
if not al.;lished, at least be rendered much less frequent.