The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-12 00:00:00

fourtb92Vition

SUN OFFICE, Seven o'clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly after 'Twelve
o'clock.
Mr. S. ADAIR presented petitions in favour of the
vote by bsllot.
THE SCOTCH BILLS.

In reply to Mr. FORBES,
Mr. LABOUCHERE intimated that the Noble Lord
the First Lord of the Treasury would make his state-
ment upon this subject at five o'clock this afternoon.
MERCHANT SEAMEN AND PILOTS.
On the motion of Mr. LABOUCHERE the House
went into Committee.
Mr. LABOUCHERE then rose and said he proposed,
in redemption of the engagement which he entered into
at an early period of the session, to call the attention of
the House to the various objects connected with the
mercantile marine of this country, and he felt persuaded
in doing so that it would be wholly unnecessary for him
to detain the House with any preface by setting forth
the immense importance of the subject to which he
invited the attention of the House. He need not
dwell upon the immense magnitude of the
ospital invested in the merchant service of this
country, upon the great and 'valuable portion
of our population which it employed, nor of the immense
national as well as commercial interests connected with
the service. It was their duty at a former period of the
session to call the attention of the House to a subject
intimately connected with the interests of the merchant
service—he meant the question of the navigation-
laws. Oa that occasion, in bringing forward those
measures which he felt it his duty to propose, he
encountered, as he had naturally anticipated, opposition
of a great and powerful party, to whose opinions ho was
well aware the principle of the Bill which he proposed
was altogether contrary, and he, therefore, could neither
feel surprised nor complain of the strenuous opposition
which that measure hail to encounter. But he had the
satisfaction of being able to entertain a hope
that with regard to the class of subject to which he now
invited the attention of the House no such party feeling
would necessarily be excited; but, on the contrary, that
they should be able to turn their attention in a dispas-
sionate manner t • this subject, and to endeavour, by
their united counsels, to dispose of them in the best
manner, with a due regard to that great interest which
they affect. He had already adverted to the change
which Parliament had agreed to in the navigation-laws;
but he could not say that in any measure for the improve-
ment of the mercantile marine, or for its relief, he could,
consistently with the arguments he had urged in support
of the navigation laws, recommend those measures to the
House as a sort of compensation for the injury
inflicted upon the mercantile service by the repeal of
those laws. If he were to do so that course would be
altogether inconsistent with the arguments he had used
when he asked the House to agree to the repeal of the
navigation-laws—but if he had believed that injury was
inflicted upon the mercantile service of this country by
the alterations which Parliament had consented to
make in them, no consideration on earth would have in-
duced him to propose that alteraticn to the House. In
saying this, however, he did not say that future mea-
sures would not be introduced with a view to the im-
provement or advantage of that marine; but this he would
say, that the attention of the mercantile marine would,
after what had taken place, be earnestly directed to those
grievances which they considered they laboured under,
directing greater attention to them than they did during
the period when they believed they were protected,
though they were in reality crippled by the existence of
the navigation-laws. This he thought was an induce-
ment to the House to calmly consider this class of mea-
sures. He did not propose on that occasion to take a
complete view of all the questions that affected the
mercantile marine. Indeed it would be impossible for
him in a single statement to do so; but there were se.
'feral questions of great importance to which ho had
turned his attention, and upon which he intended to pro.
pose to the Sousa what he trusted would be found
measures of relief and importance. Upon others he was
unable at that period of the session to pro-
'pose any measures which he could hope the
House would consider as maturely as they
deserved, but upon this occasion he was anxious to ex-
press the sentiments and interests of the Government
preliminary to proceeding by Bill in another session, in
order that the House and the public—but more especially
those whom they affected—might have an opportunity
of considering them during the recess with that careful-
ness which their importance required. The first of the
subjects to which he wished to call the attention of the
House were the light dues which were paid by the mer-
cantile marine of this country. The burden of the light
dues upon the mercantile marine had been long justly
complained of, from their weight, unequal distribution,
and for many other reasons connected with the system
upon which they were founded. In other countries the
lights were maintained at the public expense, or of the
funds placed at the disposal of the Treasury.—(Hear.)
In this country a different system prevailed—they were
Maintained by tolls upon shipping, and were under the
management of ancient corporations, which in England,
Scotland, and Ireland, exercised a separate juris-
diction, and over which the Privy Council exercised an
imperfect authority, with which they were invested. In
other countries the lights were placed under some
general board of management, responsible to the Govern-
ment and the public. He felt it well to express his
opinion that it was most desirable to improve this sys-
tem, and to render it more consonant with the wants of
the present day and the requirements of the
mercantile marine, and more in accordance with the

way in which the administration of this country was
conducted, than at present. In saying this he did not
retract any of the opinions he had expressed. He had
embodied his views in a Bill introduced last session, the
general principle of which was to substitute for the
present imp3rfect and inadequate control which the
Privy Council exercised over these boards an efficient
control by a Government board of management, and
also to commute the present system of payment of light
dues to a charge on the tonnage of the shipping atlarge.
He intended still to adhere to the principles of that mea-
sure; and if he had again to lay a Bill on the subject on
the table it should embody the same principles, though
he admitted subsequent reflection showed that the modi-
fication of some of the clauses would be advisable. As,
however, that Bill could not be passed this session, even
if embodied in the present Bill, he thought it well to
merely intimate the course he should adopt with
respect to it, leaving the consummation until a
future session. Having turned his attention to
the possibility of obtaining for the commercial
marine relief from the burdens which the pre-
sent light dues imposed upon them, he put himself
into communication with the Trinity House, in whose
management the lights in England were vested, and he
was proud to state to the House that he had found
on the part of that corporation an anxious desire
to co-operate with the Government in this matter.
He was the more bound to state this, as the manage.
ment of the Trinity-house had been much impugned,
and having expressed that opinion, which he had stated
on former occasions, he was the more impressed with
this instance of their liberality, as he found that those
brethren in the corporation who had been—if he might
use the expression—most liberal in their readiness to
meet the views of the Government had only
a life interest in its welfare.—(Hear, hear.) Now
he was not by any means inclined to
go into any unnecessary details. A great portion of
the difficulties with which the corporation had to deal,
and which bore most hardly on the merchant service in
this country, arose from the debt contracted some time
ago in consequence of purchasing the private lighthouses
on the coast. That debt amounted to a million of money,
and in consequence of the representations of the mercan
tile question, the corporation had entered into an ar-
rangement with the mercantile interest. The Trinity-
house had paid a large portion of the debt contracted
by the purchase of the private lights, They had not
only paid all the interest due, but also a large portion of
the principal with considerable interest. The whole
amount which had been discharged was 500,0001., and
there was an arrangement still in existence by which
the Trinity. house were bound to pay 50,0001. per annum.
That was a great burden, and the corporation very pro-
perly stated that, under the circumstances, and consider-
ing the benefits which they had conferred upon the
country, they were entitled to have the payment of this
debt spread over a greater number of years. Now, in
his opinion, the time was come when the merchant
services were entitled to this relief, for upon them of
course fell the great weight of this obligation.—(Hear,
hear.) He must also say that the Trinity-house had
given their fullest co-opersation
tem to the furtherance of
this matter, by adopting a ys of greater
in the management of their lights. The Hon. Member
for Montrose (Mr. Hume)—ho did not know whether
he was in the House—had on a former consideration of
this question called their attention to what he termed
the extravagant mode of managing their lights, and to
their want of economy in not using rape oil. The
Trinity-house had not failed to take advantage of the
suggestion, had changed their mode of managing
those _lights, and rape
been used •
hts
tor most of the li oil had in effect
on the coast.—(Hear,
hear.)therefore, He believed, g
that it was but justice to
the rinity-house that this
n debt
is should be spread over a
greater number of years. object
h was at present only
to refer to the private lights on English coasts, for
to those of Scotland and Ireland the objection did
not apply.—(Hear, hear.) the returns that
the whole cost of sustaining these lights was ,000/. ;
of those for Scotland, 145,0001 ; and of those for 31f0i5
rlBreland,
173,000/. Of the 300,0001. the Trinity 3
the new principles which they had
adopted,edysb
and the economy which they had
had saved upwards of 100,030 L, or more than one-third
of the whole cost.—(Repeated cheers). That was the
amount of the reduction already effected, and the sub-
ject of the strong representation on the strength of
which the Government were disposed to mite the
reduction for the future, of the light dues paid by
merchant-vessels.—(Hear, hear.) He was bound to say
that he took upon himself all the responsibility which
the alteration might involve when the reduction should
be made. When he came to consider the whole of this
subject, he found that these dues pressed much
more heavily upon coasters
fir than upon
if fortheseign
or over-sea vessels. ID the st place, e
dues were paid only by those vessels which
obtained a direct and immediate benefit from the
lights, but little advantage would accrue to the merchant
service from the alteration. lint such was not the case,
and therefore the whole of the mercantile marine would
be relieved. By the changes which he proposed to
adopt, 70,0001. a year would be saved to the merchant

service of this country, and that was about 50 per cent.
of the amount now paid by the coasting vessels of this
country. But the House would perceive that this bene-
fit was prospective, as the Bill was only intended to take
effect on the Ist of October ; but when it did come
into operation, it would cccasion a relief to the amount
of one-half the money now paid by the shipping inter-
est.—(Cheers.) He would not at that time enter into
the details of the measure, for those could be fully con-
sidered when the Bill was in Committee; but he might
observe, that it was the custom for foreign or over-sea
vessels to pay a toll, not only on passing a light, but also
on their return. That he proposed to abolish by this
Bill, and to make one payment sufficient That would
make a reduction of 50,0004, or what was equal to 16
per cent. upon the amount paid by foreign or over-sea
vessels; so that the House would see that the reduction
on coasters would be 50 per cent., and on foreign vessels
16 per cent.; and he was again bound to say, that in the
whole of this matter he had received the best assistance
from the Trinity-house.
Sir J. GRAHAM—It can be done without an Act
of Parliament.
Mr. LABOUCHERE—The Right Hon. Baronet
asked him if it could not be done without an Act of
Parliament. It certainly could be done by the Trinity-
house, with the eonsent of the Privy Council, without
having recourse to the enacting of an Act of Parliament.
He came now to another question, which was also of
great importance to the shipping interest of this coun-
try—he meant the question of privilege .—(Hear, hear.)
It was not new in that House, for frequent attempts bad
been made to improve the system under which our
pilotage was conducted. He remembered when he had
the honour, some years ago, of being President of the
Board of Trade, the Right Honourable Gentleman
the Member for the University of Oxford
strongly urged upon him the propriety of dealing with
this question, and he recollected when the Right Hon.
Gentleman was President of the same Board, he in his
turn returned the compliment by requesting him to in-
terest himself in dealing with this difficult subject.—
(" Hear," and a laugh.) He believed they had both
very good reasons for not undertaking it, while they
were very much warned against it by the example of his
late lamented friend Lord Sydenham, who with great
energy, great industry, and great talent, devoted himself
to the consideration of the question; but in that instance
he was sorry to say that local interests were too strong,
and the public interest too weakly represented, to give
much chance of success to any efficient measure upon the
subject.—(Hear, hear.) However, he did not intend to
propose, nor was he in a condition to propose,
any great or general scheme, such as was contemplated
by Lord Sydenham on this question,
if he did, he could
not hope that at this period of the session the House
would be able to carry it ; but with regard to this subject,
as well as upon the subject of lights, hlde h
no ate dhturneethi
attention to considering whether it possible,wou
en
av
ee
rue a seta
Ithisi n
tpeerrei
sod:
eo
fl tthh ee
es eo sus
ei ot
rny, tsoo
ms ee c ure f o r the
practicable
relief from a system which he, for one, had always con.
sidered acted with great severity on all who were en-
gaged in the merchant service—(Hear, hear.) The sys-
tem of pilotage in England was under the control of
three jurisdtctions ; first, there were the Cirque
Ports, who had the control of the pilotage
within their own range. Then some of the greatest
of our ships had to resort to a pilotage that
was under the control of local and special jurisdiction;
while, in the last place, the rest of the country, com-
prising that part of the kingdom beyond the North Fore-
land, and which was traversed by most of the shipping
passing to the port of London, came under the jurisdic-
tion of the Trinity-house. In his communication with
the corporation of the Trinity-house he had telt it his
duty to call their attention as well to the question of
pilotage as to the question of light, and he was happy
to say, that upon this question likewise the corporation
had met the demands of the mercantile interest, and the
views of Government, in a spirit of co-operation and
willingness to come to some arrangement on the subject,
and he was able to state to the House that a great prac-
ticable alteration would be introduced into the pilotage
system under their control.—(Hear, hear.) At present
the coasting trade was altogether exempted from pilotage,
but the whole of the foreign trade of the country was
obliged to take pilots, notwithstanding the captain or
master of each vessel might be sufficiently conversant with
the coast as to enable him to work his ship into port
without risk or danger. That was a system which ren-
dered it incumbent upon every vessel to take or pay for
a pilot, and he was sure the House would agree with
him that it was an obligation which inflicted a severe
injustice upon a large class of shipowners. At the time
when this system was founded he believed there might
have been good reason for its establishment; fur instance,
the importance of encouraging local pilots might have
rendered it necessary, but in the present condition of
our trade he had no hesitation in saying
that if the system ought not to be alto-
gether abolished, at any rate it ought to be
greatly modified and improved. Could a greater
anomaly or injustice than this exist—a vessel going
from Liverpool to Dublin was not obliged to take a
pilot on going into Dublin, but a vessel going from
Liverpool to Dublin, and then to Brest, was obliged to
take a pilot in going into port, although the captain
might be well acquainted with the coasting trade.
He might multiply instances of this nature 1
to show the injustice and anomalies of the
present system, but it was not necessary for his
purpose that ho should trouble the House with doing so,
since he was enabled to state the willingness of the
Trinity-house to allow in future any foreign trading
vessel that should have on board a master or man con-
versant with the coast, and of whose fitness
and ability they had previously satisfied them-
selves of, to dispense with the services of a pilot.
It would be necessary for him to bring in a Bill upon
this subject; the Bill would be of a permissive and not
of a compulsory nature, extending not only to the Tri-
nity-house, but to all bodies who had jurisdiction over
pilots; it would allow them, if they thought fit, after
having satisfied themselves of the qualification of the
master or man on board, to grant permission to the
ships to dispense with the services of a pilot.
As he understood the law, the pilots themselves ha 3 a
vested interest iu working foreign traders along the
coast, and unless this Bill were passed they might be in
a position to bring actions against the Trinity-house.
He attached the greatest importance to this question,
as this position would not only be given to the
Trinity-house, but to the Cinque Ports and
other jurisdictions, if they should think fit to
avail themselves of it. Certainly he was not empowered
on the part of the latter bodies to state that they were
disposed to follow the example of the Trinity -house, but
at the same time he indulged in the hope that if the new
system were found to work well in the instance of the Tri-
nity-house, the Cinque Ports and other local bodies would
be induced to consider whether there were not special
circumstances to justify them to follow the example in
part, if not in the whole. Still, however, he could not
help thinking—returning to the real question—that a
great point had been gained by the establishment of the
principle that a vessel coming from abroad to this coun-
try should not be obliged to take a licensed pilot,
if there should be on board a captain or man
capable, or of competent ability, to work the
vessel along the coast.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He was authorised on the part of the Trinity- house
to state that this permission,would be given, and as the
Bill he proposed to bring in was merely of a permissive
character he could see no difficulty in the way of carry-
ing it even at this late period of the session.—(Hear,
hear.) He was empowered by the Trinity-house to say
that they did not mean that the permission in their
hands should be a dead letter, bat that they
would truly and bona fide carry it into effect; that they
would, in all cases where they should be satisfied of the
competency of the master or mate, or some other per-
son on board an over-sea trader, to pilot the vessel along
the coast, give permission to exempt that vessel from
the necessity of paying a pilot whose services they do not
require.—(Hear.) This was the only measure which he
proposed to introduce, with a view to carry out or
amend the law in the course of the present session. but
there was another measure relating to this question of
the highest importance, and perhaps of still greater in-
terest, but with regard to which he did not propose to
take any step, or to ask the House to pass it in
the course of the present session. Indeed, at
this period of the session he must despair of
the House being able to give that consideration
to the matter which would justify them in passing
a measure on the subject, still he was most anxious
to lay the views which he and the Government enter-
tained with regard to it upon the table of the House,
in order that they might be considered by the House
and the country with that deliberation which the
importance and the interest of the question demanded.—
' (Hear, hear.) He came now to the consideration of the
general condition of our mercantile navy.—(Hear,
hear.) He desired to ask the consideration
of the House to the condition of the mercantile marine,
mainly with reference to the character and qualifications
of the masters and mates, and to the discipline of
the crews, and general well-being and condition
of the seamen.—(Hear, hear.) They had already had
incidental, discussions on this subject while dealing
with the navigation laws, and he could only repeat
now, 'what he stated then, upon this question,
that while nothing was further from his intention than
to cast any sweeping or indiscriminate censure upon
the officers of the mercantile marine of this
country, yet, upon the other hand, truth and
a sense of duty obliged him to state to the House his
opinion—an opinion founded upon inquiries of
no limited or superficial description—that there
was much in the condition and in the
present state, in the qualification of the officers of our
mercantile marine, in the condittiohne senodnditdioisn-
' line of the men, and in
opcountry, that
cart
required the most
of the mercantile sailors
serious
of ofattetnhtiison
this no
He believed that in saying
Government and the Legislature—(lefear, hear.)
; l had
of the Royal Navy, whose professional com-
mercial men of experience, and no
services captain.
led him to a distant part, where he had
British ships, and had ample opportunities of
found
forming an opinion upon the subjects, wean
contradict him when he said that especially in regard to
the qualification, both in au honorary and a scientific
point of view, the mercantile captains of this country
were not the most competent in the world; and it was
most desirable for the House to consider whe-
ther some measure could not be devised
to put a atop to an evil prevailing in
the mercantile
soon arrested,ercaatile
marine
he had
ofthe
n eootuentry, which,
if not hesitation in
saying would, ere long, threaten h
and welfare of our mercantile service.— odeparrosverity
He said this without any feeling of despondency with
regard to the condition of the British merchant navy.
—(Hear, hear.) He believed they possessed that which
must constitute the staple of the greatest mercantile
navy in the world, and he had no doubt whatever that by
some judicious measures they might place it on the same
prominent footing on which it once stood. It was,
therefore, not from Any feelings of despondency,

but from a sense of duty, that ho urged the
discussion of this important question, in the
hope that the most expedient course might be adopted
to put a stop to the evils which they all so much re-
gretted. He was unwilling to go at any length into
evidence to prove the statements which he had made. They
had had much discussion with regard to the character
of those very remarkable documents—the reports of our
Consuls—which had been laid on the table of
the House. He was very much of the opinion which
he had heard expressed by a Noble Lord in another
place, who had paid great attention to the subject—he
meant Lord Ellenborough. :Speaking of the Consuls
reports, he said although it might be true in particu-
lar instances, the Consuls had been biased in favour of
our merchant navy, and had coloured the character
of it a little too highly, but that there could be
no doubt about the truth and general accuracy of the
reports. He believed that to be a fair description with
regard to those Consuls. There were one or two state-
ments in support of that assertion, independent of those
reports, to which he could not help calling the attention
of the House, because they came from authorities
of the highest character, who had no bias of
any sort to give a colour to their statements.
Mr. Morley Wigram stated, when he was examined be-
fore the House of Lords, that he was engaged in the
China and India trade, in which the character of our
vessels were very high, and in which the captains
commanding them were of a better class, better 'edu-
cated, and more trustworthy. He stated, however, that
that character did not apply to the merchant
navy generally, and that he was afraid that the
reports of the consuls were too correct. Mr. Richmond,
another gentleman, observed that if he were to say that
our English captains had improved within the last
twenty-five years, he should state that which was
not a fact; that the captains of our merchant ships were
a less educated class of men than they were sixty
years ago. Mr. George Frederick Young alto said,
although he thought that indiscriminate censure
had been thrown on the commanders of those
ships, he believed, taking into account the whole of
our trading ships, that the captains of many fo-
reign ships were of a better class than the
captains of many of our ships. The Right Honourable
Gentleman then quoted a passage from the work of Mr.
M'Farland, to show that a preference was given twenty
years ago to our ships in the Mt diterranean
es‘d Italian seas, and that the amount re-
quired by underwriters for an insurance upon
them was less, but that now no such preference was
given, and no difference was made with respect to -the
insurance. lie (Mr. Labouchere) was anxious to call the
attention of the House to a memorial which came
from the Bombay Chamber of Commerce in 1832,
which appeared to him to be of very great im-
portance. 'rhey stated with regard to the
India and China trade, which, generally speaking,
had a much higher class of captains than the Mediter-
ranean and American trade, that serious conse-
quences had ensued from want of discipline
on board merchant vessels owing to a want
of morality in the captains, and to the little
respect in which they were held by their men.
He also called the attention of the Government
to another most important point, viz., that though
the captains were generally possessed of sufficient
scientific attainments the mates were not, and the con-
sequence was, that if any accident happened to the cap-
tain, the vessel aas placed under the command of an in-
competent man, and the result had been that most
serious accidents had happened. He (Mr. Labouchere)
had also stated that he believed that there was
a great want of improvement in the discipline
of the crews of the merchant ships of this country
—(Hear, hear)—and that he believed this, in many
particulars, necessarily connected itself with what he
before stated as to the want of properly qualified captains.
He believed that where the want of discipline existed
among the crew of a merchant vessel the cause was generally
traced to the person of the master of the vessel. Or
this he was certain, that proper discipline could not be
enforced unless they had some security that the captain
would not improperly or harshly discharge his duties, for
not only had he the care of a great amount of property,
but the lives and comforts of many of his fellow. creatures
were entrusted to his charge. He held, therefore,
that these two subjects were closely connected with
each other. He would not weary the House by quoting
the reports of the consuls, but he would appeal to every
Member in the House who was acquainted with the subject
whether there was not a lamentable want of discipline
in our merchant vessels. Our whale fishery, which was
once of so much importance, we had almost entirely lost
from a want of discipline on the part of the crews em-
ployed in the vessels engaged in that service. He believed
that it had been transferred to America in consequence of
the superiority of the American crews over ours. He
now came to the third and main point, to which he
was anxious to call the attention of the House—he
meant the general condition of the sailor, which they
must now lock upon with regret. In the last year there
had been no less than 14,000 desertions from the British
merchant navy. That he thought was a sufficient rea-
son to induce him to call the attention 'of the House to
the condition of these men. The relation between a
merchant-seamen and his employer was one of a very
peculiar nature; it was always so recognised and dealt
with in every mercantile country. The sailor and his
employer never entered into agreement with each other
in the same manner in which the employer and the
employed were accustomed to do in other trades.
On this point he could quote the opinion of a gentleman
who was a high authority in such matters, though not
an Englishman, still one whose opinion was worth lis-
tening to—that of the American Chancellor Kent. This
gentleman described the condition of the sailor in terms
which he was convinced were not overdrawn, and he
was sure the House would agree with him that it would
be very bad policy to leave this class of men entirely to
themselves to take their own chance in forming their
contracts with their emplsycrs; and that it would be no
more than right that the State should interfere for the
protection of the sailor. He should state that in pro-
posing any improvement of this system he should not be
introducing anything entirely new, but merely proceed-
ing upon grounds which had been laid down before and
sanctioned by the Legislature. Experience had proved
that in the contracts between the seaman and
his employer much depended upon the character and
of the agent employed by the sailor, upon his qualifica-
tion and trustworthiness. Without the trustworthiness
of this person could be secured, they left the sailor ex-
posed to the greatest frauds. In America this object
was mainly obtained by insisting that all contracts of
this sort sht.uld be conducted through the instrumentality
of a notary public, but in this country there was no
' class who managed these contracts equal to these notaries
public, in respectability and qualification. This was a
point greatly to be deplored. During the late Adminis-
tration a measure had been brought in to endeavour to
improve this system by providing that no persons but
those duly licensed should :be employed; and
though, no doubt, this system had been produc-
tive of very general benefit, yet he could not
think that it was sufficient to work that amount of
good which was necessary ; it fell very far short of
what was required. It was found still very difficult to in-
duce.persons of proper respectability to undertake these
duties. In many instances licences had been obliged to
aonudn
dthougho
st
shi they yi e h at do
o
was quite certain
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that if they wished to accomplish any important altera-
tion in this system, to make the sailor satisfied with his
contract, they must attempt to conduct this business
through the instrumentality of persons of very different
character than hitherto. There was also another point,
to which he had-directed his attention, and that was the
sanitary condition of the seamen on board. No man
could read the reports that had been laid before the
House on this point, ane had heard the manner in
which sailors were stowed together, engendering the
seeds of future disease, and, perhaps, of death,
without feeling the necessity of some interference—
that it was desirable to introduce some alterations. He
had now stated the general points relating to the mer-
candle marine where it was desirable to extend relief;
and he would now proceed to state the details of the
measure which he intended to lay before the House. He
knew it was a subject which required great consideration,
and he was conscious that any measure which he
might introduce would be capable of great alteration.
At present there was no department of the Govern.
meat that was responsible for the condition of the sea-
men, there was a jurisdiction divided and fluctuating
between the Admiralty and the Board of Trade, and
there was no doubt but that the mercantile interest had
greatly suffered from this. He, therefore, proposed to
give the Board of Trade an increased authority, and
with it increased responsibility. In order to do this he
should propose to add to the Board of Trade a department
going by the name of the Board of Mercantile Marine,
not to constitute a separate board, but merely to institute
a separate department of the Board of Trade under this
name. On this board he intended there should be two
members who should have served as captains in the mer-
chant service, for he thought that the mercantile marine
had a right to expect that in a board like this it should
have some persons who understood its necessities and
sympathised with its wants. He should first state,
then, what he intended to do with respect to the first di-
vision of his proposed improvements—the qualification of
masters and mates. At present there was a system of
voluntary examination for these officers, and he thought
that this had been productive of much good, but he had
no hesitation in stating, atter the experience he bad had,
that it was not sufficient. Without going into any detail,
or making any particular charges, he would say that these
examinations were not always exactly what they ought
to be. Well, then, with regard to this part of the subject, he
proposed in future that these examinations should be
entirely . under the superintendence of the Board
of Trade, and that this department of mer-
cantile marine, which he proposed to establish
in it, should grant certificates of three kinds.
Lie proposed in future that every master and mate, pre-
vious to his being entrusted with the command of a
vessel, should be obliged to pass an examination and to
obtain one of those certificates. At the same time that
he proposed that system for the future, be thought it
would be inexpedient, unjust, and almost impossible, to
apply this system to masters and mates who were already
in service, seeing it to ho unlikely that their education
could have embraced many of those qualifications
which will probably be insisted on under the proposed
system of examination. He would propose, therefore,
at first, that all that any merchant or mate in command
of a merchant vessel should be required to do should be
to go to this mercantile marine department and o btaina
certificate, nut of qualification, but of service either in
the mercantile marine or in that of the East India Com-
pany, and that that certificate should entitle him to the
command of a merchant vessel. He also held that in future
any merchant captain, who should be satisfactorily
proved to have misconducted himself, should be de-
prived of his certificate, whether it was one of service
or of qualification. Perhaps, on that part of the sub-
ject, he might mention that he proposed in cases of gross
misconduct, attended with loss of life or property, on
the part of a merchant captain, that that ahOtdd COLlSti-