The Sun.
London, England, 1849-04-19 00:00:00

MARRIAGE BILL.

Au HON. MEIIBER presented a petion from the Ork-
neys agair,t this !3111; and another against the Births,
Deaths,.and Marriages (Scotland) Bill. - •
Mr. DUNCAN presented a petition to the same effect.
Mr. BANKES presented a petition in favour of the
Marriage Bill. •-
Mr. HENLEY presented a petition against it.
BEER LICENCES.
Mr. TUFNELI, presented a petition praying for an
alteration of tho law regulating the licensing of beer-
houses.

Mr. HUME presented a petition from a place in De-
vonshire against extending beer-houses, and that those
at present in existence might only be licensed during the
tenure of their present occupiers.
Mr.WALPOLE presented a petition to the same'effect.
FREE TRADE.
Lord EMLYN presented a petition from Pembroke •
shire complaining of the operation of tree trade, and
praying for the equalization of taxation.
ARBITRATION.
Mr. COBDEN presented a number of petitions in
favour of arbitration instead of war.
Mr. EWART presented petitions to the same effect.
CHURCH-RATES.
Mr. EWART presented a petition praying for the
abolition of church-rates.
POOR-LAW SUPERANUATION FUND.
Mr. PEARSON presented a petition from the medical
officers of Sc. Mary, Lambeth, praying for a superannua-
tion fund.
Mr. Bankes, Mr. Henley, and Lord Hotham presented
petitions to the same effect.
SECEDING CLERGYMEN.
Mr. PEARSON presented a petition from a Dissent-
ing congregation in Walworth in favour of the Clergy
Relief Bill.
Mr. HUME presented a petition to the same effect.
IRELAND
Lord CASTLEREAGH presented a petition from
Down praying for the encouragement of the cultivation
of waste lauds, and against the Rate in Aid Bill.
TURNPIKE BILLS.
Mr. C. LEWIS, in answer to a question from Mr. W.
Patten, stated that the attention of the Government had
been called to the Turnpike Bills before the House,
and if it was thought expedient to refer any of those
Bills to the Home Department with reference to debts,
and so on, measure could be taken there to make a satis •
factory examination with respect to them.
PACKET SERVICE.
Mr. HENLEY gave notice of his intention on an early
day to move the appointment of a Select Committee
to inquire into the Contract Packet Service.
THE PUNJAUB.
Mr. G. THOMPSON postponed his motion relative
to the Punjaub to Tuesday next.
VOTE OF THANKS TO THE ARMY IN INDIA.
Sir J. HOBHOUSE gave notice of his intention on
the 24th instant to propose a vote of thanks to the Go-
vernor-General, the Commander-in-Chief, and the offi-
cers and men of the army of India, for their late eminent
services in the East.—(Hear, hear.)
HOP DUTY.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in
answer to a question from an Hon. Member, stated that
he proposed to extend the time for the payment of the
instalment of the hop duties, but he could not then state
to what period.
SICILY, DENMARK, AND BRUSSELS.
Mr. DISRAELI wished to know from the Noble
Lord at the head of the Government, whe-
ther and when the Sicilian papers would
be laid on the table of the House. Ile
also wished to know whether the Government had
any objection to lay on the table of the House the papers
relative to the negotiations with Denmark regarding
Schleswig-Holstein, and also whether the Government
had any objection to produce the records of the Congress
at Brussels.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that, with regard
to the first question, relative to Sicily, the papers
were now pi eparing, and would be ready in a
few days. As to the second, the negotiations
with Denmark relative to Schleswig Holstein were still
going on, and it would, therefore, not be advisable to
lay those papers before the House at the present moment.
With respect to the !third question, the only answer he
could give was, that although the record of the Brussels
Congress Lad been promised, that promise had not been
kept.
Mr. HUME wished to know from the Noble Lord
the Secretary of State for the Foreign Department,
whether a report that was current was true, that a
messenger had arrived ou the 25th of March from Co-
penhagen, with letters to the Noble Lord, which lied
remained unanswered for two days, till in fact it was
too late to put an end to hostilities.
Lord PALMERSTON said that, :in consequence of
the papers having been mislaid, some delay certainly
took place, bet such delay was immaterial, as the propo-
sition contained in the letter was one that could not be
accepted, and the answer would have been the same on
one day as the other.
RUSSIAN TROOPS IN CONSTANTINOPLE.
Mr. ANSTEY—Sir, I wish to ask the Noble Lord
the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he
received any information from Constantinople on
the subject of an alleged demand made on
the Sultan by the Government of Russia for
the removal of Turkish troops from Moldavia
and Wallachia under the menace that if the troops were
not withdrawn, the Russian Ambassador would be in-
structed to ask for his passport.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, in answer to the ques-
tion which the Honourable and Learned Gentleman has
put, I beg to say that I do not believe that any
such demand has been made by the Russian Govern-
ment; on the contrary, I have every reason to believe
that the report to which, no doubt, the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman refers is totally unfounded. In fact, the pre-
sence of the Ottoman troops in the Danube was invited by
Russia, and the fact that I am in possession of, is that re-
cently Russia sent General Souzglan, an officer of great
distinction, to Constantinople, with the view, as I am in-
formed, of endeavouring to effect a friendly arrangement
of the matter in dispute.—(Cheers.)
THE IRISH INTERVIEW.
On the motion that the orders of the day be now read,
Lord CASTLEREAGH threw himself on the indiul-
genee of the House while he introduced to its notice
matters referring personally to himself, and having re-
ference to a correspondence which had passed between
himself and the Noble Lord the First Minister of the

Crown.SPEAKER—I am sorry to interrupt the Noble
The
Lord, but it is usual to agree to the motion before the 1
Houseard asc Aa mattersr ERoEf
A course.
Fi
w
as quite aware of that, but
he threw himself on the indulgence of the House.—
(11ear, hear.) It will be in the recollection of
theerd Haot utshee
htheaadt
ofa thefew GodvaeyrnameangtosumthmeoneNdatbhlee
Irish Members, as a body, to receive from him
certain propositions with reference to the rate in aid.
Previous to that meeting, as it was anticipated that the
Irish Members would be required to give an immediate
answer to the Noble Lord, they were summoned togethe
to determine upon what course they should adopt. At
that meeting the Honourable Gentleman the Member
for Limerick introduced:business of an extraneous nature,
and gentlemen present were unable to come to any
conclusion as to who should be elected spokesman of
I the body. At the meeting with the Noble Lord he
was requested by many of the gentlemen present to
state the it views, but he was unable to catch the Noble
Lord's attention, and was, therefore, not able to do
so. Ile therefore addressed a letter to the
Noble Lord, which, with the permission of the
House, be would read. ELIt was as follows e--" My Lord,
I beg to state to your Lordship, riot only for myself, but
on behalf of a numerous and influential body of Irish
Members, that, whilst in deference to your position as a
Minister of the Crown, we attended the meeting in'
Downing-street, we were not prepared to pledge our-
selves to adopt any particular tax; we are, however, willing
to discuss any proposal for that purpose upon its own
merits in the House of Commons, but without hearing
the arguments which may be produced in the discussion
of such a question, we could not put our-
selves in the position of answering for our con-
stituents, and therefore we beg to abstain from offer-
ing any advice to Government on the course they
may think proper to pursue.—l am, &c." In answer to
that letter he received an answer to the following effect:
" I should have waited to hear 3 our Lordship, but it did—
not appear to be the wish of the members present that I
should do so, and I thought it best to retire ;
otherwise I must hove heard other members who did
Lot belong to that numerous and influential body
to which your Lordship alludes, and I must have assisted
at a debate instead of receiving a decision." He had
thought it his duty to refer to those letters, and he would
now lease the mutter in the hands of the Mouse exactly
as he had stated it. He would only make one other re-
tnai k with reference to the numerous and influential body
which the Noble Lord had alluded to in his letter.
lie held iu his hand the names of the gentlemen who
constituted it, and, if the Noble Lord chose to see
them, he would find that they were both numerous and
influential. In conclusion, he had to state that the
whole body of Irish Members had come to the reso-
lution, in conformity with the letter which he had the
honour to address to the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL lose and said, as the Noble Lord
had thought it necessary to make that statement he
might be allowed to make a few observations in reply.
He begged to state that after having explained what
the views of the Government were be intimated
that he thought it would be better if the
gentlemen then present should take some further
time to consider their decision, and expressed a hope
that they would favour him with a reply in the course
of this morning. The Noble Lord (Lord Castlereagh).
as he understood, then began to state that he was prepared
then to say what the opinion of the meeting was.
Lord CASTLEREAGH—No, not the meeting.
Lord J. RUSSELL then said that he was prepared
to state the opinion of several persons. He (Lord
J. Russell) was ready to receive the answer—he stopped
to hear it, upon which several Gentlemen called out
" No, no.") He thought that if he received the answer of
the Noble Lord he should not be receiving the answer
of the meeting, and that be should be involved in a
debate with respect to what the intention of the meeting
was. He, therefore, adopted his original intention,
aed retired into the next room and expressed his
willingness to come back again and make any
other explanation that might be required of
him. Ho could assure the Noble Lord that he was very
sorry that any misunderstanding should have arisen, but
he begged to say that he wished to cast no disparage-
,tent upon any one, and was ady to make any apology
which might be considered necessary.—(llear, hear.)
Mr. DiteRAELI then rose and said—l think it highly
unconstitutional to call a meeting in the way in which
the Noble Lord has called one, and I am surprised that
a Minister who is so well known for his knowledge of
the constitution should have recourse to such meetings.
—(Hear. hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Hon. Member was
out of order.
The SPEAKER said be had allowed the Noble Lcrd
(Lord Castlereagh) to proceed with his statements, al-
though he was out of order, seeing that it was the general
opinion of the House that he should do so, but the House

would now see the inconvenience of the discussion pro•

ceding further, and he trusted that he would now be
support«al in enforcing ihe rule of the House.—(Hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI raid—l rose to move the adjourn-
ment of the House, and I concluded that I was in order.
I shall, however, take the first opportunity of bringing
forward this subject again, and then a Minister of the
Crown will not have it in his power to say that I had pre-
pared my observations.—(Laughter and cheers.)
NAVIGATION BILL (AS AMENDED).
Oa the order of the day being read for proceeding
with the consideration of the Navigation Bill, as

amended,
Captain HA KRIS rose to move to move the following
clause ;—" Be it enacted that the master or owner:of every
ship belonging to any subject of her Majesty, and of the
burden of eighty tons and upwards, except pleasureyachts,
shall have on board at the time of herproceeding from any
port of the United Kingdom, and at all times when ab-
sent from the United Kingdom or navigating the seas,
one apprentice or more, in the following proportion to
the number of tons of the ship's admeasurement,
according to the certificate of registry ; that is
to say, fel. every ship of 80 tons, and under 300 tons, one
apprentice at the least, for every ship of 300 tons and
under 600 tons, two apprentices at the least, and for
every ship of 600 tons and upwards, three apprentices
at the least; all of whom, at the period of their being
bound respectively, shall be subjects of her Majesty, and
above twelve and under seventeen years of age, and be duly
bound for the term of four years at least; and if any such
master or owner shall neglect to have on board his
ship the number of apprentices as hereby required, to-
gether with their respective registered indentures, as •
signments, and register tickets, he shall for every such
offence forfeit and pay the sum of ten pounds in respect
of each apprentice, indenture, assignment, or register
ticket so wanting or deficient." In moving this clause
he would confine himself strictly to the matter in
hand. Lie was unwilling to detain the House one
minute beyond what was absolutely necessary
fur properly discussing the bearings of the clause which
ho had moved. He wished to prove to the House that
the question involved in that clause was in all its bear-
ings of the highest importance to the merchant navy, in-
asmuch as the supply of seamen for the merchant navy
would materially depend upon its being carried into law.
The Hon. and Gallant Member then went on to read the
evidence of shipowners and other parties bearing on the
question, but the low tone in which he spoke
and the noise in the House rendered it impos-
sible to catch even their purport in the gallery.
After reading some other extracts, which were quite in-
audible in the gallery, the lion. Gentleman concluded by
proposing his motion, the House having be come im-
patient, and several Hon. Members having called loudly
for a division.
Mr. LABOUCHERE hoped the gallant officer would
not construe it into any pisrespect to him if he merely
brifly alluded to what he had said. The question
Ley in a narrow compass. He was disposed to admit with
the gallant officer that the hardens put upon the merchant
seamen service with respect to tonnage was a very heavy
grievance ; and it was one which they had a right to
claim exemption from. There was no lack of lads for
he service. It was notorious that there were 10,000
or 11,000 more apprentices than the service required.
It was, therefore, unnecessary for the House to enforce
any such regulation as that referred to in the motion of
the Gallant Officer. He hoped the House would not
agree to the clause.
Mr. HERRIES recommended the Gallant Officer to
withdraw his motion, as on Monday an opportunity
would be afforded for the ample discussion of the matter.
indeed, he hoped the House would then reject the measure,
Which was so framed that it was incapable of amend-
ment.
Captain HARRIS withdrew his motion.
Mr. ANDERSON rose to move that in clause 1, after
the word " deficient,"
to insert " and that any seamen
quitting any vessi 1 e. hate ver in order to enter her Ma-
jesty's naval ser vice, and Icing received into such service,
.hail be tx,nrpt from any penalty or forfeiture
to a hieli they would otlicreiee be liable as deserters."
The Iku. Member proceeded to state several instances
hieh had been, brought under his notice of the hard-
ships and ineursvenieeces resulting from seamen leaving
metehunt vessels when abroad and entering
the navy ; among others, he stated one which
had happened to a friend of his own, in the
ease of the ship Anna Roberts, of 440 tons burden, bound
to Hongkong. Eleven able-bodied seamen belonging to
that vessel volunteered to join her Majesty's ship Lydia.
They had received bills for wages and had gone on shore
to have them cashed, when they joined the Lydia.
The ship was in consequence very much " distressed;"
the captain could not proceed to sea without those men,
and he ran considerable risk of losing his vessel. He
thought that it was in the highest degree desirable that
a state of things like that tbould be put an end
to; and he submitted the clause which he had
moved would have that effect. He was an advocate for a
change in the navigation laws, but on grounds different
from there on which many Hon. Members sought their

repeal.
Mr. HUME seconded the motion.
Mr. LABOUCHERE did not pretend to say that
the system of manning the navy, was not susceptible of
improvement; but he did say it would be inexpedient to
endeavour in one and the same measure to amend that
system, and at the male time the commercial naviga-
tion of this great country. He was sorry that
,:ny Member should have thought it necessary
to clog the measure before the House with amendments
of that description, which would involve the House in
ndless dibcussions. He would vote against the amend-
.ment. _ _

Mr. HUME admitted that the impediment referred
to by the Honourable Gentleman ought to be removed,
but he thonght there was a good intent in what
had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentle-
man who had just sat down, and he would
therefore suggest that this motion should be post-
poned till the question of manning the navy came more
formally before the House.
Mr. HAWES entirely agreed with what had fallen
from the Hon. Member for Montrose. There could be no
doubt that the shipping interest was very heavily bur-
dened, but until these navigation laws, which the shipping
interest found were so much protection to them were
removed, those burdens would never be removed. But
let the House pass this hill, and the shipowners there-
selve s would be the first to seek redress, and those
who were Free- traders the first to concede it ;
out he thought it decidedly expedient to moote
the question of their burdens at the present moment.
lie hoped, therefore, the amendment would be with-
drawn.
After a few words from Captain BERKELY,
Mr. ANDERSON said, in deference to the opinion of
his friends, he would withdraw the motion.
T.Ce motion was accordingly withdrawn.
Mr. LABOUCIIERE said, with regard to the fol-
lowing amendment of the Eight Hon. Member for the
university of Oxford, be begged to say that he should
have no objection to the first, but he most oppose the
second part—provided always, and be it enacted, that it
shall be lawful for her Majesty in Council, upon an ad-
tress or joint address, as the case may be, from the Legis-
lative Council, or Council and Assembly, or proper
Legislative authority, of any British possession, praying
her Majesty to authorise the conveyance of goods
and passengers from one part of such possession to
another part of such possession in other than
British ships, to declare, by order in Council, that
such conveyance shall be authorised accordingly, in
Such terms and under such conditions as to her
Majesty shall seem good. And be it enacted, that
upon a like Address from the proper legislative
authority of any two or more colonies, which her Ma-
jesty in Council shall declare to be neighbouring colo-
nies ha. the purposes of this Act, prayiug her Majesty
to place the undo between such colonies upon the
..00ttlig of a coasting trade, it shall be lawful for her
.11,jasty, by Order in Council, to declare that it shall be
deemi d and taken to be a coasting trade accordingly,
for all intents and purposes: provided always, that the
fionrecigonunships
u vs hl
easlsi
t,y regulations which shall be equally applicable to
liritsh ships. Ouprdoeur
rpir2tv ibleugdeismcionriistrdedbyhyanlyhisslulecht
Mr. GLADSTONE acceded to the proposal of the
Right lionouruble Gentleman.
The proviso was accordingly introduced and the other
pints f thu Bill having beets agreed to the report was
adopted.