The Sun.
London, England, 1809-06-02 00:00:00

:110USE, OP' PEER,

• , TIIURSDAY, JUI•I4 'l..
The HoUie was employed some time in a Coal-
mittee of Privileges on the Baubury Peerage, after
which the further Consideration was deferred till
Thursday next.
Several public and private Bills were brought up
from the Commons, among others, the Irish Trea-
° aury Bills' Bill, which was read a first time.
PAWLVI'T's DIVORCE.
Lord HAOwtcx.k, Moved the second reading of
this His Lordship commented at 'some length
on the evidences and on the nature of the objeatons
that had been started against it. He thought their
Lordships might decide on the.evidence first brought
forward, without any reference to the evidence sub-
sequently adduced. . .
'rite LORD CnANcard,oit contended, that the evi-;
deuce adduced in the Ecclesiastical Court, and at
the Assizes, was insufficient to establish the aa. of
adUltery. The evidence taken at the Bar of that
House was in some instances contradiaory, and in
others suspidious: It would appear as if the bring-
ink forward of the last evidence could. be traced

to Mrs. Pawlett, and that it betrayed some syrup
toms of collusion. Mrs. Pawiett's Case was certainly
a most cruel one ;and he ctntemplated it with an-
aching heart, but a sense of duly .must .he para-
mount with him to every other feeling. : He there-
fore. ft;lt compelled to oppose the second reakEng of

Lord DARNLEY coincided in opinion with the
Lord Chancellor, and atter a few wlJrds in reply from'
Lord Hard wicke, the question' was put, and no-
paved without a division.

MR. CHARMILLY. ,
Lord &Tyro inado his promised motion, a mo-
tion similar to that'salready made -in the Commons,
for the dates of the promotion of .Mr. Charmilly to
the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel, and. the amount of
the emoluments which he" received from Govern.;
meat.—The motion was agreed to. •

• • HIS;MATESTY's MESSAGE.
The Earl, of Ltvetteeot, then.moved the Order of
the Day Jar taking into consideration his Majesty's
Message, recommending an augmentation of Queen
Ano's Bounty in favitur, of the interior Clergy. His
Lordship entered into a statement of the returns that
bad'aiready been made of the number Of liviflgs un-
der ,1.501. pernimum, and observed, that though the
necessary intim-illation was nut yet before the House,
upon which to builda permanent system in aid of
the present distressed state of the Chute!), still ~off-
icient was known to induce their Lordships to
adopt some measure to answer We exigencies of the
moment, until time was allowed to prepare end
digest a plan to be permanently need upon. His
Lordship concluded with moving an Address expres-
sive.of the readiness of that House to concur in the
accomplishment of his Majesty's wtshcs.
Lord Stumourtt highly approved of the principle
of the measifre,. but as he was stilt ignorant of the
mode by Which it was to be carried into execution,
he was not without his apprehensions thdt some-
thing might occur, similar to what happened last Ses-
sion in the caseof Mr. Palmer, to obstruct the measure
at the close of the Session. He though: the objeEt of
ins Majesty's Messageiwas of too high a uature to be
thrown into a clause of a Money Bill, and was of
opinion that it ought to haVe.' been Made the subjeal
of a distind Bill: What regarded the church could
not be too' studiously ,attended to; or should it be
forgotten how essentially and indissplubly it was Con.
netted with the well-being of the State.
Lord Hattftowelr could see no, analogy between
the,present subject and the case of Mr. Palmer, nor '
did he leer that any difficulties could arise, such as •
those contemplated by the Noble Viscount (Ski-
mouth) to obstrn6t the accomplishment of the men,
sure. His Lordship then proceeded to draw a paral-
lel between the present state of the Church, and it*
condition at the time of the enactment of the Attu
of 'Queen Ann ; and concluded with giving his
cordial support to the Address, whieb was assented
to without anropposition.
Tice third 'reading. of the Loan Interest Bill was
deferred until. Tuesday, on the motion of Lord
DAaNLHY i and also the' third' reading of the Scots
Judicature Bill, on the motion of the LOUD CHAN-
CELLOR.

The Bills on the table were then forwarded in their
respeaive stages, and the House adjourned.

ROUSE OF COMMONS. •'
TRIMS/MY, JUNE I.
Tile ,Paupers Removal, the Irish Loan, the Judges,
the Irish' Militia Pay and Cloathing, and the Irish
Treasury Bills' BC: were severally read' third time,
and passed.
Mr. H. Baciwrg, brought. up the Report of the
Commissioners for making and Maintaining the Ca-
ledonian Canal.—Ordered to lie on the' table.
The insolvent Debtors'sßill went through a Corn-
mhee, the Report of which was ordertd to bureeeiv-,
ed to-Morrow:
Sir,Jonsi SINCLIIH obtained leave to bri6k in a
Bilk for regulating the number of persons carried oh'
the on the outside of stage-coaches, &e.
The Putneet Lands Bill was read a third.titne, and
passed.
Mr. SHAW LerEvett presented a Petition from
the Governorg of Sti•Luke's Hospital, straying to be
included in the operation of the Charitable Do.
nation
,Bill.—Ordered tr lie on the-table.
The-irtsh Militia Bill went through a Cpmmit-
tee, the.report of which was ordered to be .reeeived
to-morrow.
The Seamen's 'Wages Bill was reported, and or-
) tinted to be read a third time to-morruw.
the Friendly SJ‘:ieties' Bill' went through a Corn.
•
Mame,. The t ort ,Ntras then brought up, and
.or..
tiered to be taken , into co' aside:alio') on 'Tuesday
, next, and the 13i11 to be primed.
In a Committee.,oo the lriih Spirits Suspension
Bill, tile CIiANCCI,LeII of the ExcaLavitui propowd,
that the blank shetdd be- titled up to as to extend
the operation cif the Bill to March, that Parliament
might have an opportunity of conaidering what fur:-
Liter measures should, be adopted. his was op-
posed' by Sir J. Newport,. Mr. Hutehinion, Mr.
W. Smith, and other Hon. Members, on the gt ouids
that it might thus be ,put off ad infiiiiiimr 'They'
thought Parliament ought to make seine rerinain
provisi?ii in the couese' of' the preNtmi' St4hiioni'even
thouglk it compelltd them to,sit shore tune ibriger
than they c xpeettal,

A. diVision took place on Mr. PlitCEVAL'ik,tuotion;
in Which the numbers were, ,. ~
' Ayes - - - 65
' Noes . . - - .. - - 16
.... Majojity for, the. Bill ..- -7-49 , , •
- , [Colonel Sturr.gy withdrew the notice which
stood for, this night, respedingLord Burghcrsh's ap.
pointments. The Hon. Gentleman disclakned any
Motives of a personal nature towarde the' Noble Lords
and averred, that he felt only that interest in the.
matter which, as a member of that Profession, to
which he belonged, he should ever continue to (eel
for its, honour. He congratulated the House and'
the country on the triumph which they hatfthusab-
tained cuter the undue influence of the Minister ;
and expressed a hope that the present disappoint-
ment of the Noble. Lord would not deprive the ser-
vice of those benefits which may be derived from
'the gallantry whle.h.the Noble Lord fled always dis-
played.) ,
. .
Col. &ilia? presented a Pet.i,inn from ,the Distil-
lers of the County of CavAp; against the Bill pend-
ing in Parliament on thri subject of Distilleries.—
Upon the motion of Mr. Foster. it was withdrawn
onaccOurit Of ini;itinality, the signatures being ill
in one hand-writing. . .
. .
JUDGES' SA ARIES, .

Tips Clissat.Lort of the ExcHEQUiR having read
thdorder of the Day lot going Into a Committee on
the'Bill for augmenting the Judges Salaries,
Mr.' MARTIN Wished that tie 'sad 'a distill& an-
swer from the Might Hon. Gentleman on the subject
of the sinecures in thedifferent Courts, froM the re:
dilation of which, in his opinion, a and may be
formed which would aliswer the purpose of paying
.the present augmentations to the Judges. ,
The CIIANCRLLOR of the FXCITEQUER said, the
question was not from what fund the augmentation
should be made, but of the propriety of making
such an augMentation. .
A Message 'from the Lords intervened; It an-
nounced their Lo-dships' assent to the Martiniqua
Trade Bill, and some others of a private nature.
Mr. CURWEN, for the purpose of bringing forward
his motion, wished to postpoise.going 'into a Com-,
mittee on the present subject; under the idea that it
would be attended with a prolraateddebate. • -
The CHANCIILLUR of the EXCHEQUER, as' be:
could not an:icipate any objection to the measure
proposed, so he dA not apprehend any, extent' of
debate would tirke on the subjett. • •

Mr. H. MARTIN re-stated that he had no objec-
tion w tee principle of the Bill"; but as a Commit-
tee in 1797 had reported that there were sinecures
in the law department to the amount of ii,oool,
which ought to be abolidied, Ire was anxious for an
explanation on that head.
The CHAS:CR[4.OR of the Bictutuusx said, that
the proposed auginentatii.o was intended to be made
flow (tie consolidated fund.. His opinions, he be,
lieved, were pretty well known upon the arrange-
ment of those sinecure places. He could not, how-
ever, give any pledge upon that head .until he was
furnished with proper Mformation.
Lord H. Pm): supported the motion for further
considering the measure proposed by the Right Hon.
Gentleman. .

After a few words from Mr. WILBERFORCE, icy
support of what he called a tardy act of justice,
which should have been done before the House
went into a Committee on the Bill, •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXPHIMUER stated the
income of 'the Puisne Judges 10 lid at present only
two tlionsand pounds per annum, and, except in the
case of those possessing private patrimony, not ade7;
quate to the support of au establishment necessary to
uphold the dignity of those honourable persons. He
did not, by any addition which be would make, ins
crease that establishment, which with such decency
and moderation the Judges bad so long upheld. He
observed, that they should of the two rather have an
opportunity of benefiting than impairing their pri-:
Vote circumstances. .For this reason he-would pro-
pose to mitt their present nominal income, by the
addition of one thousand pound a year, making in
the whole for each 30001. "per' annum.. He
also would propose the same sum in addition to
the Chief Baron of the ExChequer, and the 'two
Chief Justices.. Since the year 1772,. no provision'
had been made for augmenting the salaries of the
Welch Judges, to whom he would now propose an'
addition of 3001. per annum. Of the Scotch Judges
he could not at present say what,Was necessary 'to be
done as to4heir augmentation of salary, mile did
not 'possess any information on that 'ritibied. It
wotild'be more convenient to await' the Report of
the commissioners now. sitting On. the; alteration in
the Scotch' judicature, and' front estitnailug thereby
the increase of labour which in consequence of that
alteration would:ensue, then to come to. a determi-
oation. With respeCt to Ireland, he possessed
a lit-
tle information i but.he was informed by Lord
Chancellor et that country,. that the Judges there
stood the arue favourable grounds for uugrnertta
tion as they did in England. He did not doily' the
emasideration of the matter, far its atleilied.thOse
countries, hum any ether consideration' than not
being possessed of the necessary mlornintion, not
from attaching any peculiar Vales to the judicature
. this, to- the prejudice of the other • parts' of the
United. Kingdom. The Right Hon. Gentleman
concluded by proposing a resolution to the cilia thg,
his Majesty would be graciously pleased 'toltdirett
that 40,001)1. be paid Out of the Conselidated4lind,
in order to meet the 'prooo4d. atigusentatioir of's3las:
ries to the dttferent, Judges. ,
,Lord H. PSITY. supported this, measure 'se
sary to the proper estiolishment of dignified and ex-
tilted Charatters; who had always tefrained froiri
in-
terference in politics. He trusted that it would he
spontaneous- measure • k;ith every puny mu the
House. Under ail Giwernmentti the purity of the
judicial eitabiiiheneitt, Wall never called in oLii..sL
U that twin the past, 'we mat auticipate s:chrity on
that .head for the future.

Mr. W. ‘VyNNE, from the extendect*tbre of
the NVelcii Circuits, did net think the augrti`eritation
- proposed- to the-Welch lidos a sufficient One. He
proppsed, therefore, by way of a tuendmenti that
the augmentation should bo suol. ,per ann. In-
item! of 3001. t e knew many respedobie lienetia
who, on being applied to, in order that ,they shobld
fill those phiccs, declined, on the ground 61 the
itiudequiiiesalairew,

Mr. BANKES uppot ted the Amendment, and
wisbra that the Wet,h Judges should be er*:llided
.ficoi Parliament,- btvibe eatAtitAtiomi pritriple tlpit
it WAS taut right Linn •thCap Wily Were COnCeillea in

.the evicution should have any SllAre in the lee.:a.la,
live part.
11IC .CH, TICELLOR of the .Ext:irtaura,nald;, thepr
of the . Hon. Gentleman (Mr, Wy,nne).
• deserved more consideration,. before .it should
,adopted, as it would tend perhaps to overturn thy
present, judicature-of Wales. .He could not agree
with another Hon. Gentleman that, the Welsh
ges acted in a- perpetual judicial cliaraater as the
Judges of England did . .
Mr. ADAM defended the ,proposition 7Cf further
augmentation to the Welsh Judges, and hoped that
'those of Scotland on account at their labour should
be shortly placed in relative situations with those of
• the English Judges. • • •
..The Amendment ofMrr Wynne was further stint
ported by Mr.. B. Bathurst, Mr. Horner, Lord Mil-
ton, and Mr. W. Smith. •
Mr. SPENCER STANHOPR did not .appr!oe,of the
Welsh Judges being adinitted as Members of P.
liatnent.,
Mr. WYNNE explained.
..,Mr.-Witi•rnaa.sb did not appose the angrbenta-
Alan of...the salaries, but asserted the expedircy at
the present motnent, of ,direEting that plitlie
should be, carried into distant parts of the lislans
twice instead of once a year: He ithought also that
a Welsh judge ought-no longer to be allowed to sit
in the House of Commons, or to hold an office uit,!
der the Grown. He supported the opinibit of his
Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Martin), char the sine-
cure places in the Courts of JOStiCe should gO to
make the increase proposed in the lalitrfes of thd.
Juges. If these officers were not aboltsbed et the
present moment,.at least a pledge ought to be. gion.
that at stime 1;4-, n period the sentitnents of th 4,
ComMitteei which had laid a report on the Table ot
the, subject, woutd be taken intb'dne considem4
tion.
Tlie CHANCELLOR of the' Excnettuto.tt did not
think that the time of the Ju,',3es would rillOw them
to go the Northern Circuit twice :in the year ; but
thit inight.be rt subject of after consideration. Ai
to- the proposition of ex'cltiding,the WelsivJnd,tett.
trona the,Hoitse of Commons; if stith a regWatiusi
wffe at present adopted, it wolCd appear to be.Phriith.
etrat an individull Wh d ao* hart
always been must ieai
loos-in the discharge of his public duties. Nvr ai•
this, properly the subject before the House.
,Lord H. Petty the th;itn:ellOt of the Esehet,lner,
and' Mr. Whitoread severall) explained.
Mr. VANsITTAR.I' thought that was ' the titne tot
declaring that the place of Clerk of the A.Asiie should
not 'be sold in tutuie: • •
Mr. PONSONBY was of opinion, that in graniiitd
an augmented salary to the Judges, the HotiseAught
not to mix any other queition with • that betoli4
them.

• Mr. WILJIERPOR6E stated; that matutcompHititi
had reached him of the inconvenience sthstalned iii
the North, on account of their not being two-AY.
sizes in the year. • - • '
Alter 'Et few words fiorn Lord Milton, Mr. Cv,
Wynne, and the AttcrneV General,'a Ttsolotion hor
granting toilie,Welch Judges an additional sta'rfrY 'of
4001. per annum .W 35 agreed ic,' •
'The House having'b&ebresnmed this Pic port
ordertcl to be received to4morrow. '

SEATS IN PARLIAMFNI' 131.11.
• Oll the tnotion of Mr. CuaW,EN, the arose ,ree,
sOhed into a Committee on the Seats ta
SrEAKO thettrose, and..ohservcd, thafat,alf
limes he was unwilling to oih his 0,., to,;, thy,
notice of a commiltec of the llousti pitting:9o4lf
reasetis, because lie telt the inconventenct, to whiqh
the situation which ,he had the 119notar to Rtalci
subjected him, by pr:eventing him , from
• fending or explaining ihOse .opinions. iti atiy,,sutal
hequen t stage of the ine.usure upon .which, they
might lit:: eX I)
.Nevelthetegi there I.vere 444/
jebs of such paramount impartance,as imposed: tipt
on him the duty ot deliyering his setititnen ts at aperignl
when they COUlcl,Wittrprqpriely 60-4ekiybred;
appeared to him to be elle of tho4o .yiubjeos. :I,ll*
question 'before the, Committee was no less than Aliit'i
whether seats in that Noose, should henceforward hit
publiclysaleahle ? A position, :the sonnd of which.
would have wade
,theie ancestors wart \vitt),
utter pbliViOn
the gettuibe Partij.
Mapt, they hal recently heard avotiliTsi. and, justified.'
te 'Ho ti or CO nit Lunn s, ha d. p comoto s 4 from:
Which thfre was no retreat, :Clicy Must: pronounco.
Aye Or 0. If thyf,til'W to t alrlti tbeiratfiv'svhieb,
.11/.ls allow ed to .with their reprotiation, they
k'vould giirt it a legi,S ti sanCtion ;' and ,he was-
firmly persuaded, that. unless it Wert3 Stiginotized t)y
distiria :stottoe, that, short as it wastple-,-
bable the period \t of ihi :be before the teriiiiiiirttWn of
the SeSSinit, that bt.'iorq that ter Miliatipti 140 wi)i)ld
gee seats in that House put up to sale:by ptthlic
and gria le r Seautial brOtlgi)t. Rata 'ttr°lia~
nient and the nation titan ,had ever fallen upon thOin
since the 4,i:ski4lice ot ti Parliame.itr. :,4qortfing tU thud
course which the det",.ttes ott Ifni sobjtel had taken,
there weie three poini, to,..kcon4idered,
•Vyheth,or thc'prati,CL; a ilded ta..084.4)0141Q14
Secondly, whether it w.ts t 1 PotitimipritAry 061)el
,
134t1,,y, ztiv.ttpft:, praOleal rowdy fr. 41144
it,;" a(.loptet.i.fOr tcpk:4sin Atik F4Piiikt UN-
fitit point it v.stis IlUt necessary to 144. purposo4b,temi,
lel* at large upon it. Thal .a certain.itiihoshAvoul
i he
:c
,wris tor the i of* hAtnpf,
order, .1114 Ut t he,„iil4llif,y of the El rt pi nth' film, ipAtit
could .o)o.yroporty
to have it predorc3ift3ting influence in „eleiionilkoivaoft
as iindnithfeth but that those: who pgisettseld pro 4
pet(/ situat..l be atituated
~914,1e.r charthose' of generosity anti .afteelion iii tlia itatlUt:it,M
which they exerckied f that they should go to an
opeti aril sllxitieltas matkt and sclf,the attachment
of their friends to forward the views of;strangcrit \val.
indeed to be lamented. If thiswas'not a: political
evil, and arpdblic grievance„ 'be slid not know
wai. TA degrncit:tl slit high yanks of
_society' lii which
foOk filaat.i it affe4fed the general Charatter of
Men t f kcatibrded the most formidabuottt we,atiotti
to tittise who proiessitig, ittal he belieVed sitictisly
iwpfe'g'siriff,, to reform the represewatiob t.f the people
were tievit4less, by the stele Wilieli lbey hcid adopt •
ed, leading to the entire suliver3ion ofittat repr4tsen7
tation. the second' polut,yiz,
practice°'l'lCG tTt gvery
our history—of the :Siatutes--:-.:nd Jwarnittl it' of
that llouse afforded aniple evident:7e' rhal it •nvtti,,t,
high parliatociijary offence. It wit', ;1 tirst
that all eleia4vhs ihouffi be fcetti ami with .rt,seeot

~~.+ 4

0101;11011tilOr Metnt)eiS licus uvrat LUUI4I:y lti 11U,Iimal 1.1 „. 41
Si.ecificaliyAleciared by the Statutes of the biliest pro Vision existed that airy person, who, for the con-.
dee!. fie adeerted:l9_ the ea.ee'ofSigniere, iu w Lich 4143604:in itifprocuring the- retv.rn of a' Member, re-
..Pariiameitt and declared, for the coved an office, acid that 'any individetil' by whom
eee-d Warden to nominate or recommend a member that officeenight be given, should be subjected to
to serve within Ills jurisdiction was ia violation of punishment tot a teisdeeienocure lie put it to any
Parhaineutary privilc4es, and contrary to the ancient t oae who ever bad the pewee of giving an. office,
fees c,t the teetin. Corrupt prattices and undue in- •Whethethe could be quite sure that it was possible
fluence in' the electioteet members had in all ages I to keep completely clear of such conSiderations.
been the subject 0, reprobation in the rekorts ut the Who were the persons that recommended to offices ?
Committees of that I leuse. Traces of this, seutitnent If the Member for a comity, for instance, retool-
existed ineveq period.. .They %vete to , found in meuded any person for an office, how could the
the rteeeeetion. They were to be found in the Minister know that in' that recommendation there
eroceediegs by Sir H. Seymour egainet the India i was no view either to a
‘past Or a futute election ?
cernpany. They ure to be found in the time of I Would not a jury be completely justified in such a
Sir • Robert Watpole. They were to be feund rase, in believing that this, at least, •lormed part of
it, the erne of Lord North. They were to be found the motive of recommendation ?. Undersuch cir-e
down to the present instant./ Not only were they :corestances it would be in pOssible to give away an
corrupt prattices end Parliamentary otleoces, but an i office without incurring the risk of being punished
otlenee against the common pew of the realm ; in i for a misdemeanour, however innocent the inten-
the same manner as bribery had long been an of- lion, It might .teempposed, and he bad 'no doubt
fecee.,kitinst the contemns law of the realm, before that it would be seeposed ote of the House, • that
time existence of the statutes winch had been passed what he said on this selbjetl proceeded from a wish
against it in the commencement of the present to retain his own influence; but lie trusted -that the
. reign. In support of this • assertion, he instanced Committee would believe tiers! he was actuated solely
the else. of the Dorongli of Stirling in the year by a sense of justice to the situi,:ion which he had
1773. Three individuals. who possessed influence the honour•to hold, and to those by :vhorn he might
Oser; the eleetots. bad agreed- pot- to bring in any be succeeded in it, when lie declare that such tr
• otrease Member for that' borough whose political provision must prove the greatest snare to their
opinions were not consonant to. their own,. and had coneciences.; that it must either compel them to
agreed to ,divide amongst themselves the profits of prevaricate, or render them incapplee of ftiffilliee
4(101 a parliamentaiy eleition. The e:ection was their duties. 'There were. two pros isions which he
'Unanimous; but the agreement amongst those three . should think it necessary to propose in order to keep
pereoes li,Liviog been discovered, an appeal was made I the. Operation of the Bill 'within its due limits. The
to. the Court of Sessien, and although) it was proVed y one was, that it should not extend to any tone fide
that time eleaors themselves were wholly ignorant of)-sale or lease ; the or her, that it should not extend .to •
the circutnetatice, the Lords of the Session declared • any money paid for lona fide legal expences. With
that the contiaet was illegal, and that the elettion respeta to the oath,-he considered it- wholly objece
was void. In 177.5 the Lords confirmed this tleci- t tionable, impossible as it was very strictly to define
shin. In 1781, on a petition to theflouse staling a the circumstances to which it was meant to refer.
sitnilarcirctuustance, the election was declared void. It such a sanction bad, eeisteil in, the original Iteat-
II it were asked what it was ucceesary to do, he ing Mk, when it 'was considered, how differently
would reply, what their ancestors had done with re- that Mt had been. interpreted ,by &X.-rept Commit-
sped to. .bribery, namely, valet e the eemmonlaw tees, that consideration would sufficiently evince
Was found- insufficielit to repress a praaic.e, to super, the impropriety that would have rciulted (rain time
add a spoodic statute. Amid thicbrought him to the introduttion into that Act of an oath, such as the
Consideration of the ilOrd part, whether the traffic one now proposed. The House had a right to
complained of could be effettually pOt down by a sta- tlic3 a•I enalty on the violation of that which • was
ante. : tee ;eerily thought dial it th&klouse applied the fair constroaion of a law, but it had not a eight
theinselyee with eteeerity.and diligence to this task, to require an oath, when that construction, however
• that there
.t.:9014 be tio diffieelty itt accomplishing it, ir wes impossible generally to mistake, could.nor
lit the first piece, it et as of the etmost importance that Most striOly and accurately, defined. ' The t flight
the law eliovideee declaratory, apd in the nest, that. Hon. Gentleman concluded,; by proposing• An
ac,eriiiie should. be described with the greatest pre- Amendment of considerable length,. which he read,
cisiati, in
,OrOCE to avoisl ipvelviog cases riot in 'the and in whichiell the inconveltiences compleitted_of
itinneeiete contemplation of P4rliament. The Hon. by hint as existing in the Bill, tvere ()belated. •• •
Gentleman by. whom the dill before the Committee Mr. Cut wets ,paid a high compliment to the Ile
iiikie*te,iterdduci:eede,teould not he surprised at. hi* Hon. Gentleman in whom the. discussiotroriginated,
being diSsatisfied welt theepart at tie; bit' w tech enaet- and trusted that after what had fallen from such high
ed without cleelaring,and with that pert of it which re- ;Authority, there could no louger,be any difference
ferred the, offence to the decision of a Court ,of-Jteitice, of opinion in.,the House the necessity of Some
end took it out
.of the consideration of Opt House. measure similereto that which he had the homer to.
With respe4.l to clqlDi Ito riid not CoheciVe that the propose. ,He,hadliteleed telt that, ne.cessily to be so
administration of a proper oath on a ,proper occasion imperious, :as, to be, unable to shtitile from, the per-
waseteall objectionable. If ever there was „an fbrotance of. the duty which he lied midertaken, al-
caster! which, tram its gravity ati4 importance, war= - though he was folly aware from the little time oc-
ratited tneadminist!ation of au oath,. it appeared to cupied in the preparation that the Bill twhieli be had
him to be that under discussion. Wishing, how,. brought in' was very inadeqUate to. the perposefor,
ever, the utmost. practical, success to the measure it winch it was intended, Of this he was so well cell,
fieding that objections existed in the breasts of vinced, that,it he were asked wilietherlie would ac-
matte to hi, mill, and not thinking, an oath indis- cept of the proposition just made by the flight Hone
peteable,"he should nut strettuont•ly urge it, awere Gentlemee opposite, he would reply that he would
as he ens that other stinetions of sn wen circa might accept of any .thing so that the ?louse .01 Commons
be (Weide On the whole lie declared his auelety declared that-the traffic in seats was contrary to tie
with tel:e6l to the divisions, he thought, that a principles. nt' the Constitution.. At the sante, time lie
Mettiber e Ito wee ' found to use ealueme such rated. not but 'lnuit that the influence of4he Crown,
as'ehaf closet ibed, 'Caed be deleehtied trout see eg in ;giving ,offices. for purposes of nuliamentary iii
in the 'exit, Rfrlialueja ; atilt it was also, in his lipence, Ought decidedly, to.be checked ; and he was
tnied tweet:loll,e beeth he, and theinclitedital re-, also persuaded that an path might be formed so
wed
ceieing, se •be declarecH aiy the Bill guilty of chart, and yet so •exprcr.sice, that it would be im-
Mladchttethoute Toat thc pumitctpie of the Bill should passible to roieenderseind its tendency. 11 this
be'egibblished e'ler; he Wit col ritici el, Out Siltalgon were withdrawn from the Bill be was fear-
Who aepresetit liesikted„ when the traffic alluded to (01 • „deg ,the country, would scarcely. expeCt
was Offered to their 'consixtrrat too, would Oritie from from its operation knee As to time jertidietion
,over

it wit tPabborretiee,-i.v fici: they saw it expressly pro-
hibited4)y htot titc ; l'ithers ol less
would hr CAtt.t.i.cd by the tear orptinisli:.
met t. He wklied 'the principle to be hilly Mitt'
down, and rittoit:ed byltrirt ptoliisions which it
would be impoisible' to inktindersiattd, "for the sac-
cc' s of the. rneastirettppe.tre3 to Kitt) to be incliipen-
ohly'necesw6r to the honour of the fluttse, and to
t he inteyresill of the
The ettAlgintt.coWlif: Inc Excitatwatt declared
it to be tti,opiniiitt, ititit the below the Cuiptitii.-
tee, did notiprWperly 'and' Sutaitently define the ot-
fence. against MI tell -It .vas dillAttiM: The offence
ought tube 60 &tined as not t. 6 wake that 'condtiti
which it 'was not, de.,ir.thle' to, probiutt 6ubjiq.:E'of
the prohibition of the Bid. Ili this vieW'a the Sub-
jedit was better e.peir to tall~'sh of the objc.t.t`-than
tolo'beyund it. fie chaceit tad that the offence
which Vitidiament :was parttcuivrly called , upon to.
prevent, speeie* o' erit tte by Which a seat
in Tatliat'neta became an- obje.tt of distinet/ side,
an iirdirVidual 'found n:te.ans Of influencing
ottiers:to confer settla on those wlh um he patronised.
was necessary to previde. not truly against those
who i;Ossessed the dole power,ove elett;on, but
a/so atr,ainst those ‘4;4l6l;aettirtiliwii: I finence,at id I ig t
yet use that intinetioeintli'deci,tive manner, l'o such
individbals it wideld.be' t . o'try make the
8.111 reach the iltfesce must. bedesctibett ;is " giving
tnialey upon' b erintraet, or au entogement to procure
Act-ttorn of a Member. of the House of .Conntions,
whether thatmohey.was given to an individual .!.vito
had 14 vote or to opt) 'who had not." ;He thought',
Ms°. with •the Right-Hon,. Gentleman'pear filin, that
the pei9.oo with received money 4atitild be subjea to
perkiapS.a fortePtire'of the stlin received,
and,' 4'fine-of°6ooli' to be given to the informer i and
te.alsoltioujibt 41#4,.1iis Right -Hon. Friend, that
the'questiod'ut.thealidity of Seats in Parliament.
al ohld -not be trietriti Courts of, LAW, which it
Would virtually be' by the 13'01' as it at present stood
For it a Meinbor were etanVicted' of at misdemeanour
itfa.Coutt tit Justice, his eXptllsloll froin that House
foltow and thui Courts of Justiee
would decide upon the validity Of .seat's in that Hpu.s e.
As to that part of the Bill which related to the giv-
ing of otticei, if it were duly considered, he NV s
sure that nuclei' such an enaatnent it would
.be un-
po3sible for any individual. whatever to hold a,pidoo
At WI set.urity,- which place entitled theta, to the, no-.
mina:jolt to offices.—Ottiees Must ox-is-t., cud. fife
tacers must be nominated by soatebody.' In this

tiro allowed that it ought not it; be removed.froto that
linnse ; tildved it never was Lila intention so to. re-,
move it,
slr.,Pa,Nsosay.chara6terizerl the amendment in-:
traduced by the, Chancellor (4. the, Exchequer as a,
new and. superseding Bill ; and declared,,as.tor us he
understood, it, it by-no• means met his approbation.
If ;t ere. carried into elle& whoever was. the' Mi-
nister-of the day must, directly or indiredly, have
the Monopoly of seats in that House. With aespeet.
to the path, .. he allowed, that 'what .a roan swore
ought to be strictly defined; but he denied the- ita-
possibility ,of strictly defining 'the offence against
which the Bill before the Commitiee was direCted.
Ile Wished tile.two Bills to be printed (the different
clauses by the side of one anothet),,and that they.
should, t hen be re-committed ; by which means more
time would, be allowed: for the consideratiOn of a.
question on-which the characiter of that. House was
Wore at stake than On, any other Within his recol-
Icklion. It the House did AM_ remedy •the praCtices
complained of, it was virtually to.deelare that they
ought to prevail, and that it.was for the future to be
considered as a pat of. the Constitution, that for n
certain sum of motley a tight to represent, the.peo-
pleand.„to legislate for, theimmight be purchased
Without any party feeling Ite.wasbound to recom7.-
mend the House to consider what rwas due to their.
C4,Vrt charatler. lf,they meant sincerely and .con,
scientiously to,do.good, be,coold tot persuade
self but that they ,had the power to put an end to the.
proCltee complained of, not only on the part of in-
dividuals, but on the part of the Treasury; . and to
define the otreCie- in rt. manfterlio,:precise, as to ens.'
ble any honest mbit,to swear: that he,had nut violated
the law.'
Sir .font 4 ANsTrityruot congratulated the House
of theadvanee they had made inthismecesaary mea-
sure, and :the excellentactits likely to ovum-.front
the clear mode in whicktheilaw.,had :this night. been
laid doWril from high:malign-lily (Mr. Abbott).—
lie expresaed a strung wish that the Bight Hon.
Gentletnan had algo6ifen them Ole advantage at 4ii'L
ideis 90,.kbp, manner of. carrying the Jaw into etftt
by this ULU iyartictilarly with re4pett to theoath.—:
lie cottlasee nodifficuity ioapplying,the Bill to the
exeln4o. of patronage as well as of r money, and
had no Oje4tion to the clause of the Chancellor:of
the Exchequer with- the additiou of the words
office, or emplc,ltneut," as subjeaing 'to
clie penalty,
I't ti v considered this as one of the most.

tieeelqys,ay4 colt essod that he attaphollsp-mtich
inipottsfne*fel-it,' t: at •Le could b,r contented Were
there was nothing in the Bill but the oath, which in
his opinion wouldalone-ah as an effectual guardian.,
on the purity of 'ParliaMent.• With reseal •to,not
,being able to provider remedy for granting Oakes
as the price of sea's, if that was the c Bill
,would go to throw every Borough into the hands of
the Treasury ; but by the clause of the Right lion.
Gilffletnati (the Chancellrir Of the ExtliequCr), that
as already effeCted under the title of rewatJ. '
they than the Bin. should pass under such circum-
stances, he would. wish it withdrawn altogether, as
it would be a mere mockery, and hot a reform of
the evil complained of. The clause of, the Right
Ilonourable Chancellor did not appew to him to pro
vide a remedy for' the -case of a third party', who
might be returned to Parliament in consequence of
an °like given to A, who had the influenCe, and of
which bargain the person returned had no know- •
ledge.. He preferred the decision of a Court of Law
to that•of a Committee of the House, and .; after of
-
Erring several other objealiOns-to the clause and
provisos. of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, de-
ferred offering any. furtlwr observations until time
was allowed him to give the sobjea more tuattlre
consideration.

511011 lilleriescouc j VW", WI ~ ?wt...} '
out), was it true that.Teertad tho'pnwer of inter-
fering in eletiOns, .but lie believed that men were
atlually. made Peers to enable them to interfere more
etteattaily: The Baron wonld go Ito the Minister,
and bolting out .that 'intluenc.e to him, -might say,
make the an Earl, make me a Marquis., and.l will
ex.ett that influence in yotir support, _ Flow did the
Bill provide against..cleiting‘ of this `deficription
Tlias it was the Members, not the.seats, that wero.
sold ;, and his grand objeaion, to the measure was,
'that it made no provision for stich an abuse.. The
Patron 'of the borough made his bargain with the
Mini ter, but the oath could not math him,'while
be sent two men into that House, much less it
,te
"sit in it than if they had purchased their seats with
their own Money at any public auction,' 'Whatever
might be the fate of the Bill, certain ire was that
the discussion which it would provoke in that Ho,isia
'must be prodnilive of infinite advantage. &Oar, at
least, it must be attended with benefit ; 'aud on that
ground, he might already. congratulate his Hon.
Friend, writ, had introduced it.
Mr. D. BkOWNE was inclined to have the oath ex+
imaged, and thought the discuSsiou should pot bu
protraard farther. at present.
Mr. Se cart STANHora objected Who oath. •

I Mr.. H'. aftoWN o.7:plained. .-
Mr; W. 'WvriNE offered some wrench- als;
which; however, he would not press.
A long.couversation then ensued as to the mode of
introducing the different amendments, and whether
they should'. be all printed, with tile 13111.—Nic.
Tierney, the Speaker,' Mr. Lockhart, and WO°, t'
wen, chiefly took a part in the conversation, waeo
is was agreed to print the Bill as it now stood.
The SPEAKER then resumed the Chair ; Be'
port was immediately received ; the Bill ordered
to
be printe& and to be' taken into further Onsidera'
tion on Tneskiz;v.neat.
The other Order or the I:13y were ditpaSea otj
and the House adjuurkd. at Three o'elecli. %hilt
=min.
•

Mr. ROSE objeaed strongly to the application of
an oath, not upon a matter fadt, but, upon the
cohstruaion of a law, and would rather consent _to
the inipositioe of fine or itriprisonment, or any other
etenishment for a' breach of their enktineut. lie
gettera;:e supported' the clause of the Chaim:kir of
the Esc:bee:ler.
Mr. W. We:NNE thought the eiThas of the Bill
would be more wischievons than salutary, unless
ifs peovisions were extended to the exchange ot.Go,
eerninent Ofliceti, as wre;l as giving money for seats
in Parliament. •lf the pars-of the Bill relative to
offices le ere Strtick out, it wmlcl be to declare that
the House authorised this' traffic, particularly after
their etteutton had 'been ititned.toilds subjet4 on a
recent occasion., •Heathen went at some teteth
wit.* appeared to him mettle first view to be objecl
tienable, in the clause vow wished to be stibeCiated
for the original Bills, contended for the propriety of
administering an oath, and' lientioned ltis ititentioo
of introducing a clause which he. would wish to be
extended to, the Bribery Atieemetidine the• law
w inch, gave the penalty to info:slime,
r.I3A.TH vrisr-spoke in favour of the priticip!e of
the Pell, which as a step to the reform of an exist
tug abuee, he,would be glad to: receive in any way
ill which it might he. modified, though perhaps the
clause ()tiered by his Bight ,Honottrahle Friend might
not go so far as he could, wish. He degired that the
provisione of the Bill should be extcoded to the grant
of offices for seats, though if it were not so emitted.
he could not see that it -would have the Wed ascrib-
ed to it by. two ,Bight Honourable Gentlemen (Mr.
Peosouby and Mr. Tierney), of throwing- the
boroughs into the hands of theTreasnry,- and enter-
ed into an argument to slim that this could not
possibly be the case. With respect to the-oath, he
thought an Occasion like the one. under consideute
lion justified its ituposit ion, hut that .it ought io be
confined simply to the purchase of the seat by mintey
or otherwise. . . .
Mr. Heweees Bunwure, alMie erenmente
he had heard, considereid it as ,very (Wit milt to frame
an oath which would not imply an opinien on the
construaion of the Laiei. wits therehire adverse
to it,. as :tending only to exclude conscientious men
,the HOUSO, in • order .10' make: room -for the
perjered, worthless, and' aliandoned, Dispensing
with the emit,' he-would be happy-to give his assent
to any proposition that would rescue the:House from
the espersions of correption thrown upon it e but if
the question (tithe oath was annexed to •this. Bill, it
would compel Him to vote against it. -
Moo= thatil;ed . lit e Committee: for Vie
tattering. attottion end deference that had been paid
to his sentiments„! and had no ty:'only to offt r his
opinion oo the subjeelof the new clause:which-had
not been intruduced ,when he last addressed them.
He bad no heeitation-•in 'stating it ciistindly as his
opiriiou, that, nelestebe Bill' netelied.to , the grant of
offices in return for seats ithParliamenc it would, !le-
niently deficient., it appeared thatiunder ,the -title
of gift or reward, that application Aciasinellided, and
isjit ahready,cevered the ea se,'i t would:l)omnd]
bet* to imp the tlnadifnent.distirritly. Madc—The
curs the Committee would now have to-pt.:lend
wsiald be, to, receive the ,amendritente propteted, and
have them printed, Jr wouldehen ;be a proper leto
firm to decide that the B;ll, with the amendments,
be re-committed:ill:.
The C11ANC14..1.011 of the Exenratren coincided
with-1114 errangenient. lie then ,tepeatedillis /Or-
leer, argutnentee, and, placed them -in: oilier ant
sttpngli,poiPt*,4 view. It .was his desire ire extend
the provisions of the Bill against the transfer catleeats
for otlices, lit ethe House must pang, idleoniider
that in eue4ingagiirtsteate, illegal pra&ice, :they tlid
not frame a Jaye to encourage false accusation, which
would eineteeo tiMes mit 'of twenty be fatal -to the
honest and legekereptesentetive.. Gentiettieti cone.
: tended for the oath under the assumption that, it
mightkeenede..aecuratee lie had hound :it diftiehlt
to trentiee# he called oie'tOese :1-fonctorabie
Members to submit the form. of one free • horn the
lie. WO *God, which _he 'Wontti, be very
ready to receive and consider. To those Gentlermie
who asserted that the operation. of the. Bill would,
be to throw 'Ow Boroughs into the Wu:lea the
Treasury, be could not but consider the.staterneet
• they themselyes laid made.as outroponse 'He woul3
not, I)ovviweti;ekit,er- into a discussion,i)f ite heft hatt
been ample refuted.hy the Bon. Gentleman on the
floor (Mr. Bathurst')
:Mr,'PONSeNtil! suggested that anyeethel•GentLeet.
map who hail Amendments to pfoilosc, should (fir
• toe-night', chest they might be printed and conside.
with the Bill.-

. .
. . .
'--'11(1r. FluTCuttisoN, eulogised the oondtV.i of the
Speaker in warm. tertns, and expressed his fiopes
that, the mmloo°lll,l principles he had 1341 down
would' be at!em!rd to (iring the pysigrifss of tho 8.11-.
~.

Mr. NV. Sgrrtt was rather inclined to retain flit:
will) to a tlinig ibat-would itowrrfully opeiatti in lira.
nourable Minds. tint. Ins chiet objettiatitstritrpref to,
wrns.t 114001 tiegiedted to. provide agaiitity: Were
Peers preyented train interfering in eletAiotis ?
was no ilailbt.a standing J)rder of that tiooe,ngain,t