The Sun.
London, England, 1831-07-21 00:00:00

the iron manufacture at large? Now those nomination
boroughs served the same purpose exactly with respect to
the property and interests of the aristocracy in general. He
epeated that he could not avoid taking this opportunity to
enter his protest against the doctrines which had been
put forward by the Noble Lord who had just preceded him.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that it was easy
to talk of fallacies as the Right Hon. Baronet had done,
and it was easy to describe as a fallacy that proposition
which bad been put forward by his Majesty's Ministers.
That proposition, however, though the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet might choose to denominate it a fallacy, was one
which had been adopted by the people of England, and it
was those persons only who were connected with that pro-
perty which it was proposed to put an end to, and who
appeared determined to die in the last ditch in its defence,
that thought proper to charge the great majority of that
House, and of the people of England, with acting upon
a delusion.—(llear, hear.) The appeal which hail been
made to the people of England on this subject had been
made at the instance of the opponents of the Bill, and now
that the people had answered that appeal, so as not to be
misunderstood, they were, forsooth, to be told that they
were labouring under a delusion. He, for one, could not
see the force of such an argument as that, nor did he think
that it required any answer. The Right Hon. Baronet,
in assigning the reason for the dissatisfaction which he ac-
knowledged had been expressed Ihroughout the country
with regard to the nomination boroughs, had clearly con-
founded cause and effect. The King's Government, in-
stead of producing that dissatisfaction as had been asserted
by the Right Hon. Baronet, had found it already in exist-
ence.—(Hear, bear.) When it was found that general
irritation and universal discontent prevailed throughout the
country at the existence of those boroughs, was it not the
duty of his Majesty's Government to attempt to apply a
remedy to such a state of things?—(Hear, hear.) He
must say, that if the burgage tenure was in the first in-
stance given by the Crown, in the favour, and for the ad-
vantage, of certain great individuals, it was, in its very origin,
an abuse; but there could be no doubt, at all events, that if
the power of returning Members, which had been given
by the Crown to the burgage tenants, had been afterwards,
through the means of his wealth, purchased by an indivi-
dual, it was by an abuse of his wealth that such an
indi-
vidual obtained the power of returning Members to that
House.—(Hear.) Was population, in regard to represen-
tation, he begged to ask, to go for nothing? The extension
of the franchise to the ten-pound householders was in strict
conformity with the ancient principle of the Constitu-
tion. Even if, in the instances of boroughs where burgage
tenure existed, the right of returning Members had been
given originally by the Crown to some of the great men o(
the realm, was that representation afterwards to he made a
matter of bargain and sale in the market?—(Hear, hear.)
Even supposing, as he had just said, that that power had
been originally granted by the Crown to great men of the
realm, when they died incumbered, perhape, with debts,
that species of pros erty passed into the hands of persons
different from those whom the Crown hail intended to
hold it.—(Hear, hear.) Thus by sale that property passed
out of the hands of the original owners,—by sale it was in
many instances taken out of the hands of the aristocracy,—
and unless it was to be contended that it was right and
lawful thus to go into the market and buy up the con-
sciences and votes of men, the existence of such a species
of property as that could not be defended. If burgage
tenure, therefore, had ever been good, its good principles
had been in that manner destroyed ; but the principle of
it had been always bed, and when an effectual Reform was
about to be made in the representation of the people, it
was impossible to allow boroughs of that description to re-
main in existence. It was said that those boroughs were
useful as a barrier against the passions of the people, but
tvould it be said that the great borough-proprietors had no
passions to gratify, or no self-interests to promote ?
(Cheers. ) The passions of the people never came into
operation all at once, sinless a great general and crying
grievance existed.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the
Bill which was now under the consideration of the House,
it was riot to be supposed that a perfect measure could be
devised by the wit of man ; but when honest men were
brought together in a cabinet—(" Hear, hear," from the
Ministerial, and laughter from the Opposition, side of the
House)—to act upon principles which they had always
professed, they had been able to bring forward a measure
which, though attacked by a good deal of criticism and of
ridicule, had been such as to satisfy the country at large.
When he spoke of that measure having satisfied the
country, he spoke of it as a whole ; and he begged to say,
that the cuckoo note of " the Bill, the whole Bill, and
nothing but the Bill," was quite as good as that which
had been raised by those who were Reformers since last
March, or who even talked of being Reformers all their
lives, and who now said, " We are for Reform, but we are
not for such a Reform as this Bill proposea."—(Cheers.) lie
would not designate this measure as a restoration of the
ancient principles of the Constitution as established at any
particular period, but lie would say that it would be justly
described as a recurrence to those principles of the Con-
stitution which had always existed.
Sir R. PEEL observed, that the observation of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman as to those who were Re-
formers since March last, could not possibly apply to him
(Sir R. Peel), for he had never been a Reformer all his
life, and he had never been a Reformer since March last.
He had quitted office on the question of Reform, and he
was opposed to the present measure, and he should con-
tinue to give it his opposition. With regard to his charge
against the present Ministers of having excited the clamour
which prevailed by the unexpectedly extensive plan of
Reform which they h id brought forward, he begged to sty
that lie believed that that plan went much further than
the one which the present Lord Brougham had announced
his intention last summer of introducing.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had applied the ob•
servations referred to to the Right Hon. Bironet. It was
satisfactory, at all events, that the present 'Ministry could
not be charged with having promised more while in oppo-
sition than they had done when in office.—(Hear, hear.)
111.. A. BARING said that lie was not liable to the
charge of having been a Reformer only since the month
of March last, for lie had been a Reformer all his life. It
was his veneration for the Constitution which induced him
to oppose his feeble resistance to this measure. The ar-
gument of the Attorney-General lie understood perfectly
well. Ile understood that this was to be no restoration
of the Constitution settled by the revolution of 1685, but
we were to have a revolution of 1831.—(Hear, hear.)
People were taught to think bitat the former Constitution
was not suited to the present time, and they wished
to try a ticket in the lottery of constitutions, and see
if they could draw a prize. They were perfectly con-
sistent. But on what plea had this nie Isure been recom-
mended from the throne ? Not that there was to he a
new Constitution, but the King, it was distinctly stated,
called the Parliament together for the purpose of consi-
dering the expediency of a Reform in the representation;
and he added, " you will carefully adhere to the acknow-
ledged principles of the Constitution."—(Hear.) But the
Attorney-General had not pretended that the principle of
representation by numbers and no property was that re-
commended by the Crown, as conformable to the prin-
ciples of the Constitution. A representation by numbers
would never consist with the constitutional influence of
the Crown. He defied any person to show an instance of
monarchy co-existing with such a system of representa•
tion. What was the French House of Commons, which
was even now tending, to extinguish their House of Peers,
compared with our now representation? In short, we
were launching upon a wide sea of, experiment.—( Hear.)
The Uon. Gentlemen opposite might ha the best Consti-
tution-makers the wcrefet had ever produced ; but they had
produced ono which it was impossible fur any thinking
man to say could work well. if any security could-be
provided, lie was no enemy to Reform; but he was averse li
to such a violent change. The Constitution of this
country consisted of the King, the Howie of Peers, and
the House of Commons, and the House of Commons was
returned half by the people and half by the aristocracy ;
and was it not a total change. in the Constitution that
the whole should be returned by the people?.—(Hear.)
Hitherto the people had been like a man fighting with one
hand tied behind him ; they said " loose the other hand ;"
but it had been hitherto answered, " no, you are a violent
and desperate fellow, and we must keep you as you are."
An increase of power in the hands of the people would be
destructive, not of the aristocracy alone, but of the very
people theiroselstee.—(Hear.) The people ba l no right to
that degree of power, fnr an instrument Was pot to be put
into their hands, with which, if they shag:gilt proper, they
could tear the whole fabric to pieces ;--just as out of kind..
nes. to a child, we kept out of its reach instruments with
which he might injure himself. If any gentleman doubted
what would be the effect of more power lodged in the
hands of tho people, let them look round, sl monumentum
quceris (:ircgmspice. Had the power of the people in
that House been so reduced that it was necessary to recon-
s(ittiriolucmtceiitt,ineiiciveoci,lrtotelr.er‘ovtfloiteigh7ivhe,Eadt.hebehem:nqiungeoiryr)eerh: The Noble Lord
aadgaitniti:ttaitlieied
people.
But But it was the merit oC the flouse of Commons, as it was
"
now constituted, that it mitigated the democ • t power in
the country. lie (Mr. Baring) only hoped
that when we
had the new Constitution, the Noble Lord would find be
could do his duty to the Crown and to the Constitution
without bringing about him a great mass of
.the re-
presentation,
who would not be looking to what b,
their honest opinion was for the interest 'of -Ale
Country, but voting-, as 3 great many did, with . the