The Sun.
London, England, 1838-03-30 00:00:00

that the advocates of the immediate abolition of apprentice-
ship would, by the excitement they raised, compel the Mem-
bers of Parliament to free the negroes instanter, and as the
British Legislature were pre-eminently just and considerate,
they would certainly afford the planters greater compensa-
tion that before. So they still waited, and threw all the diffi-
culties they could in the way of the liberation of the negroes in
the expectation that delay would produce them a higher
premium.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet then read
extracts from the evidence of Messrs. Dallray, Lyall, Higgins,
and Edward Baines, testifying to the general improvement
apparent in the cultivation of estates and among the negroes
and their children since the introduction of the new system.
Some of the subordinate planters, it was true, still wished to
adhere to the old system, but they were very few in number
and still less in consideration. It appeared by the report of
Mr. Grant that the best feeling existed between the appren-
tices and their employers. He would only ask Hon. Gentle-
men to read those reports, and place them in juxta position
with the statements that had been made at public meetings
end elsewhere in this country on the subject.—( Cheers.)
These reports would show that in 999 cases out of 1,000, as
the law was at present administered, oppression was pre-
vented, and the negro was protected in earning his own
wages and in the enjoyment of his own home with his family.
—( Cheers.) It was true the improvement in the condition
of the negroes was progressive, but would it not be folly to
expect that an Act of Parliament would remedy all the evils
of the slave system at once? The improvement was general,
although it was gradual, and surely this was as much as could
be hoped for in the time.—( Cheers.) There was no doubt
if the apprenticeship system were allowed to expire it would
gradually glide into the free-labour system without any dan-
ger to property, which would prove a guarantee of the future
rights and liberties of all classes.—(Cheers.) A memorial
had yesterday been for the first time brought under the con-
sideration of the Government from a numerous and most
respectable body of persons, praying that the system of ap-
prenticeship might be put an end to, and stating that with
few exceptions the objects of the Slave Abolition Bill had
been defeated by the planters and the local Governments.
Now let this statement be contrasted with the reports of
Mr. Baines and the other magistrates in the colonies, and
he would ask any Hon. Member of that House if lie could
find any grounds after reading both for the excitement
that had been got up on this subject ?—( Cheers.) It was
clear, however good the intentions of the memorialists were,
that they made their statements on a partial knowledge only
of the facts of the case. The whole of the cry that had been
raised was got up by certain persons who were known to have
been opposed to the apprenticeship system from the begin-
ning, and was nothing short of a fraud practised on the pub-
lic meetings that had been called for the purpose of excite-
ment. Now, with respect to crime, he would allude to one
passage in a report signed by three Magistrates, one of whom
was a gentleman of colour, who had been appointed by the
Marquis of Sligo. That passage alluded to the crime of
rape. Now it had been represented that this crime had
increased since the Slave Abolition Bill passed in 1834 ; but
the Report of these three Magistrates clearly showed that
the crime had not increased, but that when the offence was

now committed it was made publicly known by the injured
party applying for the protection of the law, which never
was the case before the Act passed. Indeed before that
time there was no law to punish the offender. It was
not very likely that a crime of that nature had not been more
prevalent at a time when there was not only no protection
against it, but when the slaves themselves were in a much
worse state of morals than at present. Why, he would ask,
had not those persons who professed to have a knowledge of
all the abuses which they now complained of as having been
practised in the Colonies—why had they not brought those
charges before the Executive Governments in the Colonies
and had the parties punished, instead of bringing them for-
ward in this country for the purpose of excitement ? With
respect to the treadmill having been used as an instrument of
torture, it had undoubtedly been so used ; but the use of it had
been put a stop to by crder of the Government.—( Cheers.)
The Hon. Baronet did not seem to perceive that there was a
great difference between the present Bill and the original
Abolition Bill. The present Bill says that no female appren-
tice shall upon any account whatever be subjected to corporal
punishment, or if so punished she shall immediately be declared
free —( Cheers.) W ith respect to British Guiana, he believed
no man could be more anxious than Sir L. Smith, the Gover-
nor, was, ,to carry out the objects of the Abolition Bill, and he
did not think him at all liable to the censure that had been
endeavoured to be cast upon him. As to the quantity of punish-
ment inflicted in that Colony, where the number of appren-
tices was 1,700, it had been clearly shown that every species
of punishment had greatly diminished, and, in fact, that
flogging had altogether ceased there. —( Cheers. ) In short, it
appeared that the Act had been carried out with the utmost
good faith and zeal in that colony. He did not know where
the Hon. Baronet got his information as to the condition of
the free children in that colony. He only knew that no such
information had ever reached the Government. On the con-
trary, all the reports showed that the children were allowed
maternal assistance, food, nurses, and everything they re-
quired, as perfectly as when in a state of slavery. He spoke
thus of the condition of British Guiana, against the Govern-
ment of which the charges were made ; but he was free to con-
fess that in other colonies the condition of the children was not
reported to be so good. With respect to Sunday markets
Lord Glenelg had been censured for succumbing to the de-
cision of the Governor, who, in opposition to the recommenda-
tion of Lord Glenelg in his despatch, issued an ordinance
establishing Sunday markets until nine o'clock. Now the
fact was that the Governor did in the first instance issue an
ordinance in favour of Sunday markets ; but on the second
despatch of Lord Glenelg, recommending the abolition of
Sunday markets, a second ordinance to that effect was
issued by the Governor.—( Hear.) In the island of Granada
a complaint was alleged that the Chief Justice there had
imprisoned his own clerk for not carrying into effect his in-
structions. Now, of this transaction the Government had no
account, and he did not believe it to have occurred. The pre-
sent Bill was intended to supply the defects in the original
Bill, and he could not join in the censure which had been cast
on the Noble Lord ( Lord Stanley) opposite, as to the Bill of
1834. Whatever blame attached to the Noble Lord, if any,
must attach tenfold to Lord Brougham, who then held the
first legal office in the country, and whose duty it was to ad-
vise his Colleagues as to the powers of the Act.—(Cheers.)
He regretted that the Local Legislature had not justified the
confidence which Parliament and the passing of that Bill placed
in them. They admitted the misconduct of the Jamaica As-
sembly—admitted it to the fullest extent, and had passed a re-
medy sufficient to meet the case, but not to go beyond it, be-
cause they held themselves bound on the other hand, by their
solemn contract witn the planters, and on the other, by what
they considered the real interests of the negroes. They asked
Parliament now for powers which would enable them to protect
the negro in the fullest extent of those rights which Parliament
had ordained he should enjoy. An Hon. Member had said the' Bill
proposed was deficient in penalties. Had the Hon. Member
read the Bill? The Bill provided that for any infraction of
the law—any injury done to the apprentice—the person offend-
ing was to pay to the proprietor the full value of the remainder
of that apprentice's term.—( Hear, hear.) There was this
difference, to be sure, that while under the old law the case
was to he tried by a colonial jury, the present Bill vested a
summary jurisdiction in the magistrate, who had power to
fine the offender to the full value of the apprentice's unexpired
term. He begged to apologise to the House for these weari-
some details, but there were a few more authorities to which
he must refer to show the impolicy as well as bad faith of any
breach of contract. The first was the report of the appren-
ticeship Committee of 1836. The report bore testimony to
the general good conduct of the apprentices, but at the same
time expressed the deep conviction of the Committee that
nothing could be more unfortunate than the agitation of any
question tending to unsettle the minds of the negroes—( Hear,
hear)—and recommended the inviolate preservation of that
solemn engagement by which the services of the labourer were
secured for a definite period. Now this report was unanimous
—( Hear)—but it was only justice to Mr. Buxton to say that
he never altered in his opposition to the apprenticeship system,
but he decidedly concurred in the opinion of the Committee
that nothing could be more unfortunate than to unsettle the
public mind. The opinion of Mr. Buxton was to be found
in a letter of his, addressed to a meeting of delegates held
towards the close of last year in Exeter Hall. But this was
one of those meetings that deprecated all inquiry : they
wished their own statements to go forth, and refused any
other a hearing, and consequently they hesitated for a long
time before they would permit Mr. Buxton's letter to be
read. In that letter Mr. Buxton expressed his unalloyed hos-
tility to the apprenticeship system, but also said that he
doubted the propriety of making any effort for abolition in
1838. He said they could not expect that Parliament would
dispose of so grave a question without a Committee, before
which fair play would require that the slaveholders should be
examined; that would take a long time, and bring the matter
into 1839 ; and even if ultimately they succeeded in their
object, the result would not reach the Mauritius before the
time already fixed for the abolition._( Hear, hear.) In the
sentiments of that letter he concurred so far as it deprecated
further agitation of the question. He was told that Mr. Bux-
ton had since changed his opinion, and given in his adhesion
to the abolitionists; but here was his recorded opinion in 1837
against the agitation of the question. He ( Sir G. Grey) did
not think the House would give way on this question : it was
one involving the preservation of the national faith—( Hear)—
and notwithstanding the means that be knew had been used
to coerce the votes of Hon. Members, he trusted they would
come to the discussion unpledged. —( Cheers.) They would not
be acting like the members of a deliberative assembly did they
vote for the resolution of the Honourable Baronet under the
influence of exparte statements. He ( Sir G. Grey) had pre-
sented petitions that day from the borough he had the honour
to represent, and he could say that his constituents had made
no efforts to coerce him, and he should be ashamed of himself
if he consented to vote in a particular way on any question be-
fore be heard the debate ; he would not consent, under any
circumstances, to throw off all responsibility, and become the
mere mouthpiece of his constituents.—( Cheers.) He had
another authority, and that was the Marquis of Sligo, a man
possessed of large property in the West Indies, and his opi-
nion was contained in a pamphlet well known to have been
written by his Lordship—written avowedly for the purpose of
pointing out the defects of the Jamaica law and the means of
remedying them. His remedy was not to repeal the law,
but to make the planters obey it. Now they had already
adopted the remedy of Lord Sligo. His Lordship further
proceeded to doubt whether immediate abolition would be
beneficial to the negroes themselves.—( Hear.) He said
that although it had worked well in Antigua, in Jamaica the
case was differetit. In that island there were thousands of
acres of waste land and as it had been proved before the
Committee that a man could by twelve days' labour procure
food for a year, that he needed no clothes but such as decency
required, it was highly probable that the emancipated negro
would retire to those jungles, and only come nut from them
to procure aome luxury. Under such eireurastancee much

labour was not to be expected. He did not read this opi-
nion as entirely agreeing with his Lordship. as in his opinion
he took rather too unfavourable a view of the negro cha-
racter. The important consideration for the House was,
whether immediate emancipation would be good for the ne-
groes generally. He admitted that if it could be distinctly
proved that the well-being of the negroes required immediate
abolition it would be the duty of the House to find some
mode of emancipation consistent with justice to the planter
—( Hear, hear)—but he was convinced that that was not
the case—convinced that the resolution of the Honourable
Baronet would tend in the great majority of instances to
aggravate the sufferings of the negroes, and roll back the tide
of amelioration. He would suggest to the Honourable Ba-
ronet that under the emancipation law the negro was secured
a hut and provision ground, and he would warn him that the
persons who would be injured by his resolution, and who were
accused of exercising their power tyrannically, had a power
of expelling that negro from his hut if, in the excitement
which the arrival of those resolutions must cause, he should
think right to do so. The delegates had thrown it out that
there might be great danger in disappointing the hopes of
the negroes after their having been raised in such a manner,
but he thought there was more danger in conceding than
in adhering to the contract ; and however great might be the
excitement, he had no fears of being able to bring the matter
to a peaceful termination. He appealed from the heated
and prejudiced voice of public meetings to the calm delibe-
ration and judgment of that House ; and asked them to inter-
pose the weight of their authority, and, by a large majority,
to negative the resolutions of the Honourable Baronet. He
trusted that the interests of the negroes could be con-
sulted in a more satisfactory manner than by imme-
diate abolition, and that in many places their abolition
ould be procured long before the period required by law
—in Montserrat, for instance, where the local Legislature
had provided a remedy for the aged and infirm poor. He
called upon the House to avoid the consequences of leaving'
this question in suspense ; he called upon them to rescue the
apprentices and the planters from the adoption of these reso-
lutions of the Hon. Baronet, wlich he felt would be produc-
tive of great evil ; but, above all, he called on Parliament to
reject the motion, because he believed it would be an act of
injustice.—( Hear.) He called on them to fulfil their con
tract, and they would thus in a short time place the apprentice
in a better situation than that which he had held for the last
three years.--( Hear.) Many persons had consulted him upon
the subject of emancipating their slaves, and he was happY te,
say that the greater number of these persons had expressee
themselves desirous of carrying into effect from time to time
the complete manumission of the negroes on their estates, and
had given orders to their agents to that effect, being anxious
that the emancipation should go on gradually, commencing
with those whose conduct would appear the best to entitle them'
to it.—( Hear.) The practice had already commenced, and 11'
earnestly hoped it would go on, even more extensively than
it had hitherto done.—(Ctieers. ) He hoped the wealthy Pr%
prietors in this country would exercise their influence On the
local legislatures to induce an annihilation of all the existing
laws. He admitted that there was a strong feeling in
country, but he did not think concession should be me.de
popular feeling which could not be made with safety or wit"
honour. He was sorry to have trespassed at such length nr,ll
the House, but he would call upon them deliberately to wciga
and consider before they consented to a resolution which tvaLl
inconsistent with the natural faith, and might be pregnant wit"
evil.—( Loud cheers.) He would conclude by moving a' agf
amendment the Order of the Day for the second reading °
the Slavery Abolition Act.
The question being put, and no Hon. Member risinf",
to
speak, there were lou cries of " Divide," and " Aclifinrn'
and it was for some time doubtful which course would he
pursued.
At length, on the motion of Mr. JAMES, the question was
adjourned until to-morrow (this day.)
The other Notices and Orders were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned, at a Quarter-pait Twelve.

HOUSE OF :LORDS, IlLincur 29.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at
five minutes after Fire o'Clock.
NEGRO EMANCIPATION.
The Bishop of EXETER said that he had a great Mal°
petitions to present for the abolition of Negro Slavery, and till('
immediate emancipation of negro apprentices. As he shrin e
not take part in the discussion on this subject when it can'
before the House, he should now crave permissions, for
in'
very few minutes, to state his reasons why he. entirely'
acquiesced in the prayers of the petitions. He was one of thew
who did not think the negroes would prove thy
fit
the great boon of justice this country was s.bout to confer o
them. But from all he had heard, and. all he had read, he
was now entirely brought to the opinion that the negroes were°
fit to enjoy that justice.—( Hear, hear.) When the Hon%
was once brought to that opinion the whole question ;s:,
csnceded. The Noble Secretary for the Colonies
cus.
admitted that they were fit; and the very principle ;
the Act of 1833 decided they were to be set free ;
cause—what was in the very front of the Act? It was ,hat
certain persons were held in slavery, and that it was juss,
those persons should be set free. If it were just tlest theyo
should be set free, why was any delay permitted, to to se
place in the execution of that act of justice ? Sirr,ply bCCatiS
it was apprehended that the subjects were not fit,, at that time,
i
to receive their freedom ; and that, instead of ssonferring a h°°
upon them, at that time, by granting their Lordship'
would be inflicting a curse upon them, For one, he nic4
frankly say, that it appeared to him to be a strong argument,
in favour of the planters in their treatment of the negroes, tl'2"
their negroes were fit to receive their freedom at so early a
period. From the grinding tyranny and the cruel domestic'
treatment which the country had been accustomed to contend'
plate them the subjects of, it was scarcely in human nature tv
conceive it possible that within a period of six years sticil
persons should be fit to receive their liberty ; yet it was foe
llu
on all hands that they were--and he therefore returned tof thee.
principle that being fit, it was just that they should be set rue.,
The Bill professed in its preamble, not only that they sh97l
be set free, but that for a certain period they should be retain
in a mitigated condition of slavery, called apprenticeship,i
what was the ground of that? It was because it
ted to
that within that period, those persons would be habitea
con-
industry—and would in short be taught how t°
duct themselves as free men. There was another ,t'suissl
ciple, which was, that a reasonable compensationrhco
be given to the planters, and to that compact 11 isoters
that the Legislature on the one hand, and the P nOC
was belle"
on the other, were bound. But the Negroes O
wero.
°old
parties to that compact ; and if it were just that they °nw,
be manipulated, there was no earthly reason whyf tout
should be continued to be held in bondage, because a rev
compact to which they had been no parties. "
sonable compensation had not been made to the le)osa.
ters, let them apply for some additional CO
tion. If they had a just ground for any additionalto it
pensation, the country would not surely object
C laser by
but the Negroes were the last persons to paY, ."
their sinews or their blood, any part of that compensation' reser
Negroes had a right to consider what claim they rnigbt Pybad
in consideration of the long series of years of slavery ts rtie sic t
undergone. He (the Right Rev. Prelate) d er
think that their Lordships would be bound to cobo sad
that claim ; but, at all events, they were vihicb,
as soon as possible to give the negroes that liberty idorea
their Lordships had declared them entitled to. He c°llgthis 0r
that statute to be the proudest monument of justice
any other country ever reared for the admiration of c ould
and he trusted that they would never tarnish it. He piper
consider that those who contributed at all to ": jur
that most distinguished and unprecedented. act °` jots)
tice which they were now called upon to earr.Y.,,e, ,
execution, could neither be the friends of justice then
mankind.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Rev. Presisatdedleses
presented petitions from the Methodists of nil rshiP'
Chapel, Hackney-road • various places of religiou Nellsfao
in Bradford; Ecclesfield; Sutton, in Craven ; the ge'
Chapel of Shipley ; the Wesleyan Chapel of Thornton ;05 at
thodist meeting at Paddington ; the Wesleyan meetato et
Hackney, a petition signed by 3,175 female inhabits aiate
Bradford, and several other places, praying for the irnm'e
abolition of negro apprenticeship. sst"
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from AbeLrjora
wyth, agreed to at a public meeting, and signed by tbe
Mayor, Town - Clerk, and many others, praying°Sobl6l,
immediate abolition of negro apprenticeship. rf undel,
and Learned Lord stated that he was sorry to ""
had s%.
"3
the necessity of presenting all the petitions he he "",,a
him to-day instead of yesterday. Yesterday tie r,,
presented 134, and ha had abstained from pre
Rob'
others, on the ground that with the exception of oea th";
Lord of the Opposition, and another Noble Lit° cr
gajestY
cross benches, there was neither one of her troace.
Ministers, nor any oth
M er Noble Lord, in th
II ()Wei
The Noble Viscount (elbourne) said that he had n
tion to come down yesterday, but the Noble V'sfculOble
staid away, with all his colleagues. Whereas, the Wu°
Duke ( Wellington) said that he objected to thutiserefeur;
sitting yesterday, and he (Lord B.) hat\ nOs,tobie r
expected to see him on that occasion ; rsnd that( I'a
had, with his usual consistency, staid away•—`‘esdele btsi
hear.) Therefore he (Lord B.) would not have if ho
duty to the important cause which, he had undertalsentlio attenti
presented these petitions yesterday with such a ,Tt oble ar
dance of their Lordships.—( Hear, hear.)
Learned Lord then presented petitions for the r'
of Negro Apprenticeship from places in Norfolk, Carrsurl3°'
and
drkosthh Yer orkshire,
uenv ot
inessh; i re
fr,
from
oor ssewt
es hs
tirrye:
DLei
bc
jog]
Dublin, Dumbarton, Liverpool, Manchester, Grantn
Clot' r
derland, Boston, Paisley, Hastings,
norton, Fenny Stratford, Woolstr-s, Torquay, •,0 tea
op (we t,eare
county of Lincoln, the birth place of the Noble aa' 0 Co Lord remarked, of Sir Isaac Newton ; from plse`Jst`o at "'
wall and from Southwark—a petition agre'4d ers°nsi
public meeting and signed by three lion sired
erobjee
The Noble Lord then presented. petitions on she sonr
from Huddersfield, Sandbank, Paisley, Cnielleste l'elsl]°'
Glasgow, Skellingthsrpe, Swaffham, Whiteha vs,ebnhorcugs'
Melbourne, Diss, Almoodbury, Dokeith, LOUs. patters
ss
Southampton, Selby, Liverpool, Kilmarnock,- St•Dretner,e,',
Kingston-on-Thames, Buekingham, Calverley
Gravesend, Abbots Bromley, 'lstarreweh-,
Aberdeen, by 3,800 persons; Isle of Ely, Cheltennuvene woe!!
mond, Wellington, Newbigging, WarringtonP.,
altial, 110
Widdlescombe, Broomsgrove, Winchilsea, Ca )
rnorden, Dorrington, Stafford Pottery,
High and Low ,
0_ hd,atio'ke Tot:
Donnington, Knottingley, Kidderminsssa,
Trent, Haverfordwest, Devonport enti
Cranbrouk, Stratford-on- Avon, P: h East 001,:‘,
nerWiC
termuchty, Hollingwood, ?sorrowdale,
Inn"Y or°
Snaith, oth'
upon-Tweed, Richmond., Battle, and a great
nted
r,
places. The Noble Lord said ho had now P e
than 200 petitions, in, addition to d not 0'
t'd There which „dor
el ay. ssssre still a great number
must tries-
' able to sels and the presentation of which tau
120 which he-prle.:sentecY,ceti