The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-17 00:00:00

Right Hon, Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.- he superintendence of the dockyards. The vete for the
(Laughter.) Somehow or ether, in any matter bet ween erotic expedition having been !ound quite heed, quite to
the Treacury and Admiralty, the former always had the fit out vessels for such an expedition, there was an addi-
best of the bargain. Under these circumstances, could Lion to the estimate of 24,822/. There was alio an item
the House wonder at the fact, that the excess under Nos. of 6,500/. for the survey of the great Lagosn, running
1 and 2, had in the last year amounted to 303,4421. He parallel with the Bight of Benin. It had been lately
bad never attempted to disguise the fact-indeed, he ascertained that the country had, as usual, paid dearly
had stated last year-that the number of men borne had for the acquisition of geographical knowledge in Africa.
greatly exceeded the number voted, and that unless it The life of Mr. Middleton, by whom the survey was
could be brought down, a large excess was inevitable, first undertaken, had been sacrificed; but another gen-
(Hear.) Some of the causes of the excess had tleman, with a morn iron-like Constitution, who accom-
been in operation during the past year. It ap- panied him, had survived, and was going out again to
peered from a return made up to the Ist of December, complete the labours which had been commer cad. Under
1843, that instead of the average cost having been vote 6-the establishments at home-there was a
361. 3s. 11d. per man, it had been during the first ten reduction of 3.5544, arising princineipally from
months of the year 39/. 95., and it had taken ten months to diminished superintendence in the dockyards, as
work down the excess of 3,947 men above the vote to recommended by the Committee of last year.
350 men below it. Whatever responsibilty was attached On vote No. 8, under the head of wages paid in the
to that excess belonged entirely to Lord Auckland's ad- dockyards, there was a reduction of 86,5631.; but of that
ministration of' the Admiralty. His Right Hon. Friend sum 40,0001. was reduced by the revision in August lest.
near him (Sir F. Baring), had nothing whatever to do The estimates for this year included 8,926/. for addi-
with it. To him (Mr. Ward) it had been a subject of tional hands in the dockyard smitheries, and 3,000/. for
perpetual anxiety, as impairing, if not endangering, the surveys of the yards, suggested by the Committee. For
administration of naval affairs by his late lamented friend this the public had received more than an equivalent in
Lord Auckland, which had, he believed, been conducted a reduction of wages to the amount of 52,5091. On vote
with as pure a spirit and with as great a regard for the No. 10, referring to stores, there was a reduction of
public interest as had ever been manifested by any man 342,802/. as compared with' last year. Last year the
holding a public situation.-(flear, hear.) And he would vote was 1,511,6714 ; this year it was 1,163,8691.
take that opportunity of declaring, as the result of two The reduction was composed of these items. The
years experience, that ho had never known a public timber vote of last year was 489,000/ ; this year it
man who had a better sense of the responsibilities was 386,000/. The vote for other stores last year was
which attached to the office than that Noble Lord. 555,0001. ; this year it was 492,000/.-the total saving
By his untiring industry, by his impartiality in the on these two items being 167,0004, which we effected
disposal of patronage, and his perfect self-command, he without trenching at all on the efficiency of the
had gained the highest eeteem'both of his Gallant Friends establishments. Tho reduction which took place con-
and of himself, and ho regretted that his departure sia'ed in the amount of consumption. Instead of 28,000
should have robbed him of the credit of a more econo- loads of timber, the estimate was for 21,860. On hemp
mical administration of affairs.-(Cheers.) Every cause there was a saving of 12,000/., principally owing to a full
which had led to excess in past years had now been re- in the price. Under tho head of coals there was an in-
moved. While the Admiralty had taken a sufficient crease of 7,000/, The estimate for contracts for Medi-
margin as regarded the number of men, they had also terranean steamers was less than last year by 108,0001.
brought the number within the limits of the vote, and The Admiralty began the year with a heavy liability for
he felt sure that his Right Hon. Friend would maintain engines, amounting to nearly 160,0001.; 20,000/, was
his vantage ground firmly and vigorously. He should put down to meet the wants which might arise in respect
be very much surprised if the past year was not the last of steam machinery and steamers. Under vote No. 11,
one of excess in a time of peace.-(lfear.) With regard for new works, the gross decrease was 296,667/.; but
to the estimates of the present year, the discussions 620,0001. having been struck off in the revision of last
which had taken place on the national expenditure had year, the net decrease for the present year was only
sufficiently warned him that in submitting them to the 234,667/. Those who examined the estimates carefully
House he had no easy task to perform.-(Hear, bear.) would find the greatest possible improvement in the
He did not say that they would please no party; because manner in which the items were stated. There was
he believed that there was both there and in the country no mystification or uncertainty about them. It
a party of practical and moderate men to whom any would be satisfactory to the House to hear
Government might safely appeal, if it showed that nearly all the great works in the dock-
an honest desire to combine economy with yards were complete, including those at Woolwich,
efficiency in the public service.-(Hear, hear.) lie Chatham, Pembroke, and Deplord. Very little remained
knew, however, that there were also two parties, one of to be done at Portsmouth. The only heavy works
whom always thought that the Government had done too remaining were those at Devonport, at Keyham
little, while the other were constantly complaining that and at Bermuda. Though the amount proposed for
they had done too much. He was aware that there Keyham (120,0000 might appear large, the Admiralty
were soma who thought that, however the circumstances had had great difficulty in inducing the contractors to
of this world might vary, in dealing with the great bul- reduce the amount below 150,000/., making the total ex-
wark of England, not a ship or a man should be touched; penditure on that account 599,000/., or about half the
and he knew too, full well, that he had in his immediate sum originally contemplated. We had now, however,
neighbourhood Hon. Members who would tell him that got into a better system of keeping accounts in the dock-
the reductions which he was about to propose were yards, which he was confident would be attended with
merely a miserable instalment of what the country had a the best results. As to the works abroad, those at Ber-
right to expect.---(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Hume, sue- muda were in the least satisfactory condition of all,
ceeded by a laugh.) He had thought so.-(Laughter.) There was no place where so much money had been
Such gentlemen would not be satisfied with anything spent, with so little to show for it.-(Hear. hear.) The
short of the standard of 1835, a standard which, so far as works at Bermuda had been going on ever since 1815,
the navy was concerned, had been selected with as little and up to three or four years since no one had ever
regard to past experience as to the present wants and heard anything like an intelligible notion of what had
requirements of the country,--(Cheers.) It was not a been done, was doing, or was about to be
very creditable coincidence that, while all parties in done. There had been all sorts of plans pro-
that House had concurred in taking that standard at posed, all of which had been tried, and all of which
the moment, because they were engaged in a struggle had been successively abandoned. During the past
for popularity and place, no party had subsequently three or four years, however, the operations had
adhered to it. In the very next year, without the proceeded upon a distinct and intelligible principle ; the
slightest opposition, the number of men was raised, total cost of completing them, it was ascerteined, would
under Lord Melbourne's government from 15,000 to be 143,000 L, but this outlay, if the House so pleased,
22,000, and under the administration of the Right Hon, could be spread very well over several years. That
Baronet the Member for Tamwortb, it was further in- the works at Bermuda, so long and expensively in
creased to 26,000. The number was then increased to progress, ought to be completed, would, he thought,
27,500, and in the years 1848-49 the number was in- be admitted on all hands: the importance of the place
creased, with the addition of marines, to 43,000 men, as a naval station with relation both to the West
It was impossible to assign specific reasons for such Indies and to the United States was beyond dispute:
fluctuations. Something must be taken on trust, some the House, however, had the matter in their own
thing yielded to discretion; but certain it was that the hands, and must exercise their own judgment upon it.
House of Commons bad acquiesced in every increase.- Speaking generally with reference to the public works
(Hear, hear.) Now, happily, instead of leaving the under this department. he would observe that during the
House to either of the two extremes, the Committee of years which the Hon. Member for Montrose insisted
last year had recommended a middle course, in the pro- upon as the pattern period, these works were wholly sus-
priety of adopting which, as he stated in August last, the pended, with this dangerous result in prospect-that, be-
Admiralty entirely concurred. Ho then stated that the fore long, Great Britain, as far as her naval stations
Admiralty agreed with the Committee that the navy was were concerned, would not only lose her claim to be
the proper arm of England, and that nothing but an ex- consilered a great naval power, but would be in a
cessive and ill-managed expenditure could deprive it of position exposing her at any moment to a most peril-
the respect which it had previously enjoyed. He fur- ous blow from any other naval power that chose to
ther said that the Admiralty were prepared to adopt the assail her.-(Hear, hear.) Even in the extravagance
recommendation of the Committee that there should be which had followed that period of excessive parsimony
a general revision of the naval stations. The stations the outlay of public money had not been at all charac-
had been reaLed, and he thought that with a reduction terised by that recklessness of expenditure which had
of 3,000 men the Admiralty could provide satisfactorily been exhibited by many of our railway companies,
for the honour and protection of the country.-(Cheers.) whose affairs were direct, d by men reported of the
Since that time his Hon. Friend the, Member for Mon- highest mercantile sagacity. Rely upon it, the best
trose had taken the matter into his capacious head argument that diplomacy could use to check the angry
-(Great laughter.) To his (Mr. Ward's great sur. passions hich the wisest nations were subject to, was
prise, however, instead of adopting the standard of to show that their indulgence would be dangerous to
1835, his Hon. Friend had created a new ono of his those who yielded to them.-(Hear, hear.) In the 13th
own. He thought, perhaps, that if he proposed to go vote, Miscelaneous, there was a decrease of 13,1471.,
back to 15,000 seamen, 2,000 boys, and 9,000 marines. occasioned by the relinquishment of the Ilan of coast
he could hardly expect the House to adopt his proposal, guard drill, the money already expended upon which,
Ile had, theretore, chosen a very convenient half-way however, under the direction of Captain Stewart, had
house-35,000 men-where he intended to stop been most usefully employed. In the 14th vote, for half-
till he could go further.-(" Hear, hear," from Mr. pay, there was an increase of 2,512/., or, upon the revised
flume.) Now, of bourse, he did not think that vote of last year, of 12,5121, an increase occasioned by
a reduction of 8,000 men from the number voted the number of ships that had been paid off. As to the half-
list year was so objectiunable, so imprudent, or so pay there existed grave misconceptions; the Hon. Member
unsafe as the reduction of 16,000 proposed by his fir Montrose s: erred to regard the halt-pay list as a sort
' Honourable Friend the Member for the West Riding of Government preserve for the sons, and nephews, and
(11r. Cobden), but at the same time it was much too what not, of the aristocracy. God help these parties it
large, much too imprudent, and much too unsafe for the they had ne better resource than half-pay !-(Hear,
Government to. assent to it. The Government proposed hear.) The simple fact was, that the officers whose
a reduction of 3,010 men; his Hon. Friend's proposition names occupied the half-pay het were, to a large extent,
went 5,000 men below that of the Government, and after the very men who, having served their country during
his Hon. Friend's reasons had been stated it would be the war against France, had when that war ceased beau
for the House to decide between the two. He came deemed to have merited their country's grateful care.
now to the changes in form which would be found in Of the 3,857 officers in receipt of half-pay, no fewer than
the estimates. In that respect every recommendation 1,915 Here wholly incapacitated, as the result of their
of the Committee had been attended to. In vote No. 1, gallant services; and the Hon. Gentleman need not fear
at p. 8, the House would find " the monthly excess of that the number was not diminishing. Between 1830
men during the present financial year;" under No. 5, and the present time death had been at its work with
the " scientific branch," including the cost of surveys;" these old servants of the country. In that period 2,034
under. No. 10, " naval stores for the building, repair, names had been struck off the list by death. The Go-
and outfit of the fleet," &c; under No. 11, " new works, vernment would take good care that no improper aug-
improvements, and repairs;" under No. 13 was an ana- mentation in the list should take place; but it must be
lysis of the expenditure of 1847-48; under 18, the Horne remembered, if there was no prospect of promotion, or
Department disappeared from the estimates altogether, of future benefits to be arrived at, no man who could
being tranferred to the miscellaneous estimates; and get a crust in any other profession would enter the aea
under what was No. 19 the whole cost of the con- vice.-(Hear.) 'lo the next vote, 9,7571., for good service
tract packet service was put under the head of Post- pensions and allowances, he believed not even the Hon.
office department, 50,0004 being thus added to the mis- Gentleman behind him would object. As to the
cellaneous estimates. Now the House had here not only manner in which these pensions had been allotted during
the gross estimate and the net estimate, but they had the past three years, he would readily appeal to the judg-
also the revised net estimate; in other words, the esti- ment of the whole service.-(Hear, hear.) In the vote
mate from which his Right 'Hon. Friend the Chancellor for civil pensions there was an increase of 6,313/. neces
of the Exchequer deducted 208,0001. in August last, sarily occasioned by the reductions which had taken place
under votes 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, and 19, which were given in the various yards, involving, as a matter of mere jus-
in a separate table in page 2. The House would, how- Lice, superannuation allowances in a number of cases.
ever, perceive that the gross estimate was the only fair In the 17th vote, for transports, there was a diminution of
point of comparison bet,veen these estimates and the 700,300/., arising from the circumstance that there would
estimates of last year; because what had hitherto ap- this year ba fewer reliefs than had been known for many
peared as appropriations in aid were now paid into the years past. The Post office vote spoke for itself, He
Exchequer, and the country received the benefit. The would only, in reference to it, state that when the Holy-
gross unrevised estimate on nineteen votes for 1843-9, head Company should think fit to propose reasonable
was 7,518,610/. The decrease on votes 1,2, 5,6, 7,8, terms, the Government would willingly transfer the
10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, and 19 amounted to no less packet service between Holyhead and Dublin to the
than 1,703,3021.; the increase on votes 3,9, 14, and 16, Holyhead Company.-(Hear, hear.) As to future changes
amounted to 12,200/. The apparent saving was 1,691,1021. in the dockyards, these would, in future, depend in great
From this was to be deducted the whole of vote 18, for the measure upon the respective heads of the yards ; and,
home department, transferred to the miscellaneous esti- in their selection of the heads themselves, the Board of
mates 53,9501.; 611,662/. being deducted for contract Admiralty must look less to the mere duration of past
packets, and 183,1951. for the packet service-Queen's services than to the present aptitude for active and ener-
vessels, stores, repairs, &c., there was a total re- getic work in the candidates. With reference to the
duction of 848,807/., leaving as the actual saving on building of ships that took place last year, material
votes No. Ito 17,842,2954, as compared with the unre- errors were circulated. We began, certainly, in 1815,
vised gross estimate of last year ; the saving on the con- with an immense capital of shipping, and we had
tract packets being 25,646/., and on Queen's vessels, spent it lavishly. Since that year, the total reduc-
stores, repairs, &s., 75,515/. The decrease on the two tion on vessels of all rates was 175 ; there having
estimates was 938,856/, and if there were deducted for been 482 broken up, or cut down, or lost, and 304 built,
saving by revised estimate of 1848.9, 208,000/., the net the necessity for new building was clear. There had been
actual saving upon the estimates of 1849 50 would an entire change in the calibre of the guns mounted by
amount to 730,8561. Now, he might be told that there other countries, necessitating a similar change on our
was some truth in these figures, and that he sought to part; and the principle of ship-building itself had, as a
make a comparison between the revised estimate of this matter of course, been to an important extent changed,
year and of 1849 as actually voted. Many of the cal- The battle of the Nile was fought with 18-pounders;
culations made evidently turned on that point, and it was now, 60 and 68-pounders were common in all ships. The
to that he attributed the monstrous discrepancies as to rate at which ships were building had been very much
the amount of saving which, by some, had been reckoned exaggerated recently. Most Hon. Members would have
at upwards of 900,0001., while others had made it as low seen a statement in which it was asserted that there were
as 366,0001. But if the revised estimate and the actual no less than 67 ships of all classes on the sucks, This
vote of last year were compared, the result would be was not only an absurd assertion, but it was impossible
the same. The net revised estimate for 1848-9, to be true. There were only 36 ships of all rates
with the credits in aid deducted, amounted to now building, and the error most probably arose
7,726,610/., and the deduction of 208,0004, left in the writer of the statement having taken, into
7,518,610/, as the actual vote of last session.-(Hear.) his calculation ships, the order for building which
The vote proposed for this year was 6,260,740/. The had long since been cancelled. It was the in-
apparent saving was 1,278,000/.; and, deducting the es- tention of the Admiralty to adhere to the pro-
timate for the three votes transferred, there appeared a gramme laid down by the surveyor of the navy for the
saving on the net revised naval votes, Nos. 1 to 17, of next five years, and to carry it out in all its parts. There
449,9084; the saving in tho packet estimate of 66,064/., was another point on which he must touch. It had been
brought the actual saving, as compared with 1848-9, to asserted that ships, if used well, would last forty or fifty
515,972/, and with appropriations in aid now paid into years. This was a mistake. The average duration of
the Exchequer, amounting to 214,884/., they arrived men-of-war was fifteen years, and at the end of that
again at a net saving of 730,856/. He admitted that the period they underwent large repairs, which were almost
figures were complicated, and difficult to understand, but as good as rebuilding them, The Canopus had been held
such was, he believed, the actual saving as compared up as a model of what a ship ought to be, and the ex-
with the gross revised estimates of last year. He should traordieary length of time that vessel had endured had
be told perhaps that the Government had been duping also formed the grounds of much misconception. It had
the country, and had promised a great deal more than been asked why ships of a similar build, and lasting as
they had performed. In the statement made by him on long, had not been constructed. The Canopus was taken
the 20th of March, 1848, he had shown a saving in 1798, and she cost almost immediately after she was
of 456,8534, principally on works, steam machinery, captured 16,000/, to put her into repair. At five different
and stores ; and he also held out a reduction in stores, periods subsequently-namely, inlBl6, 1826, 1831,1842,
&c., of 150,0004 making a total of 606,000/. 208,0004 and 1845-she had undergone repairs which amounted
was afterwards struck off in August; and here was a re- in the aggregate to 135,5234, a sum which would have
duction of 730,0001., so that altogether there was a say- sufficed to have built two similar ships. The Nelson,
ing of 938,000/. He'would now state in what way this again, had been cited as another example; but the
saving had been effected. In the first place, he must money wasted in the decorations and carvings of that
state that, under No. 1, the reduction of men had been vessel was enormous, and then she was never fit for ser-
absolutely neutralised by the rise in the average price vice. The beautiful system of Sir Robert Seppings" of
of wages from 36/. 3s- 11d. to 89/. 95.; which was the putting round sterns to men-of-war, had cost the country
actual cost on the Ist of December, 1848, when the Ad- 1,500,000/, which was entirely thrown away.-(Hear.)
miralty reverted, for the first time during the last ten He had little more to say, save to thank the House for
years, to the rule laid down by the Right Hon. Baronet the indulgence shown io him. He trusted the navy was
the Member for Ripon, of taking the cost of vessels in in such a state as to satisfy all those who desired to see
commission as the basis of the estimate for the year. England maintain her naval superiority. The Board of
The result had been a reduction under the head of naval Admirality was taking measures to ensure responsibi-
packets of 27,000/. Under vote No. 2 there was a debility on the part of all the heads of departments in all
crease, as compared with the same vote last year. of the branches of the naval service, and the Hon. Mem-
-115,051/. There they obtained the whole benefit of ti e her for Montrose would find on the part of the Govern-
reduction, both in the number of men and in the cost of ment the strongest desire to carry out the most rigid
provisions. In vote No- 3 there was an increase of system of economy, consistantly with what they deemed
911/., principally in the surveyor's department of the the true interests of the country. He begged, therefore,
Admiralty, the object of which was to improve that de- to conclude by proposing that the number of seamen,
partment, and to prevent it from being so dependent as it marines, and boys employed in the ensuing year in the
had been on political changes.-(Hear, hear.) He could navy be fixed at 40,000.
not speak of the present surveyor, without saying how The vote having been put from the chair,
fully qualified he had proved himself to be for his office. Mr. HUME said that the candour of the Hon. Gen.
-(hear.) Amongst the advantages which the public tleman had surprised him. No one who heard the details
had derived from hie services wake greater efficiency in given by bilnof the extravagance dud waste committed