The Sun.
London, England, 1831-02-22 00:00:00

included chapelries, in which were two churches, but
.of the tithes, two-thirds were appropriated to the Preben-
Aary of St. Patrick's. Of the 1,6001., oce thousand
pounds was appropriated to the Prebend, so that what re-
mained was stated even at too high a rate. The other
two parishes could not be united by themselves, as Wick-
low was situated between them.
Lord FARNHAM said the Noble Baron was entirely
'misled when he said that there was no such parish as the
union of Wicklow; and when the Most Rev. Prelate was
to make his report he took the very best means in hi•
power to ascertain the true value, and, instead of under-
stating, lie overstated that value. The union of Wick-
low comprised the Prebendary of Wicklow, consisting of
four chapelries, to which no cure of souls wee attached.
To this the rectorial tithes were annexed, and the tithes
of one of the chapelries went to the support of a vicarage
in Down, and the remaining portion of the tithes (e.
Wicklow, and those of the other two parishes mentioned,
were alone the subjects on which the Most Rev. Prelate
had to report, and he took the best method to ascertain
the value. This portion of the livings had been held by
the Rev. Mr. Daltry for forty years, and during the last
fourteen tears, before the vacancy occurred, it had been,
under sequestration. The sequestrator was paid by a per
centage on the receipts, which hr, therefore, had an inte-
rest in advancing to the highest sum. There could be no
person, therefore, better acquainted with the value of the
living than the sequestrator who had held it for fourteen
years. It was not necessary, therefore, that the Arch,
bishop should employ a surveyor to ascertain the value
of the living. Who would be better qualified than the
sequestrator? And then was the islost Ilex. Prelate
to apply to the parishioners to ascertain the value'.''
They were not the most likely, perhaps, to tell hint the real
value. The Most Rev. Prelate had adopted the best
anode he could to ascertain the value, by taking it from the
return made by the sequestrator, and he had that return
in his opinion. Speaking in round numbers, he found
that 2,250/, was the sum demanded for the whole of the
union, but a composition of 1,6001. was accepted. Of
this sum 1,0001. went to the Prebend, and the amount
remaining for the Vicarage and the other two parishes tees
600/. The incumbrances on this were, first 10/, per cent.
or 601. a year, to the collector; and 100/. a year to each
of the four curates—making 460/. a year; so that the
remaining profits were no more than 140/. a year. This
was the simple state of the facts, and the plain statement
of the case completely upset the misrepresentations of the
Noble Baron. Certainly no case for censure had been made
out against the Most Rev. Prelate. Before he concluded,
lie could not help adverting to one circumstance, which,
although not bearing directly on the point now under con-
sideration, had certainly some connection with it. He
could not help looking at the present case in connection
with the attacks made, both in this country and in Ire-
land, but particularly in the latter, on the property of the
church. There was a system of attack adopted, in the
hope to accomplish the subversion in that way of the
Church Establishment, since it could not be accomplished
in any other way. In this country the attack was carried
on by speeches, publications, and libels. But in Ireland
there wee a conspiracy to subvert church property by vio-
lence and intimidation, which, if not effectually checked,
would end in the total ruin of the property of the church,
boils there and here. That there was such a conspiracy
in Ireland, be h,d documents to show. He had affidavits
made on oath to that effect ; and if called on to prove
his case, he was ready to do so. He believed that all
the documents were in the bands of the Irish Go-
vernment, and the Noble Lord (111elbourne) opposite
could set him right if lie was wrong. It related to some
circumstances which took place in parishes in Kilkenny
and Carlow. In one of these parishes the incumbent had
made a composition for his tithes so much to the satisfac-
tion of the parishioners, that they paid them with the ut-
most cheerfulness and satisfaction, and without being in
arrear, for several years up to the commencement of the
last six months, when they were instigated to resist the
payment of this very moderate compositioo. One of the
most formidable features of this system was, that it was
led by Roman Catholic priests. The incumbent of the pa-
rish of Gray, in the county of Kilkenny, had compounded
with his parishioners for 900/. a year for his tithes for
seven years. At the end of that period several of the prin•
cipal farmers proposed 7201., and to this he acceded, and
the Bishop thought it so far under value that he had a dif-
ficulty in allowing it. The composition had been paid in
the most cheerful manner till lately. Unfortunately a
priest, whom he know--for he had been for some time in
a situation not far from his residence—came to the parish
of Gray ; he was a clever man, a near relation of Dr,
Doyle, and promoted by his influence: This Mr. Doyle,
at a Sunday meeting, composed of 3,000 persons, ha-
rangued them on the subject of the Rev. Mr. Black's
tithes, and told the lehourers, acct sing to the of
which he hail in his hand, that tithes were a great griev •
ante, and that if they could get no redress otherwise, they
ought to right themselves. At another meeting, in Novem-
ber last, also on a Sunday, lie addressed an assembly of
people respecting the tithes, in the most violent and
inflammatory language—called on them to reuse to
pay them and told them, that if their cattle should be
distrained, they ought to be present at the sale, and see
who purchased the cattle, and hunt them out of the parish.
Several called out that they would attend, and with sticks
too. The deponent said that there were 1,000 persons
then present, and that he had no doubt that the object of
the priest was to excite the multitude to violence, and a
breach of the peace. Then this same Martin Doyle came
to a parish in Carlow, in his neighbourhood, where the
hssee of the tithes had distrained some cattle. A dinner
was given by certain Roman Catholics of the parish to Mr.
Doyle, where the subject of tithes was again taken up, and
the result was, that a bull-baiting was appointed to be ex-
hibited at the same place where the cattle were to he sold.
The lessee, however, did not venture to proceed with the
sale, and the expected riot did not happen.
Lord TEYNHAM thought it irregular thus to accuse
the Roman Catholic priests, when they had no opportunity
to make their defence.

Lord FARNHAM proceeded to state other similar out-
rages in regard to the tithes of the Rev. Thomas Vigor and
the Rev. Mr. Barnes in December last. The affidavits
stated that the priests excited the multitude to excesses, in
order to prevent the collection of the tithes, and that they
were also instigated by a half-pay officer of the 4th Dra-
goons; and they all concurred in the allegation that not a
farthing of tithe had been lately collected in that part of
the country. A person of the name of Shiel—not the Mr.
Spiel generally known—had told an assembled multitude,
that if the tithe system remained two years longer, he
would pay neither tithe, rent, nor taxes; and the refusal
to pay rent would naturally be the next step.
Lord MELBOURNE could not go the length of the
Noble Lord (Farnham) in supposing that there was a
systematic conspiracy against the payment of tithes; but
the feelings of irritation and bitterness with which the
subject was treated here, and the violence with which it
was treated in Ireland, did adammish them all to act with
temper, and to remove abuses where they really existed.
If the Noble Lord had apprised him befitrehand that he in-
tended to mention these instances of excess, he would have
been better prepared. .These matters had taken place in
November and December last, and he had some recollection
of having seen the documents.

The Earl of WICKLOW said, that among the many
improvements at present going on in Ireland—and many
they wanted still—the most important was the great
change which had taken place in the conduct of the
clergy of the Established Church. He believed that there
woe not at the present moment, in any country of the
world, a inure zealous, moral, or efficient body of religious
teachers, and he was satisfied that it was their most
earnest endeavour, as well as their greatest pleasure, to
promote the well-being and happiness of those entrusted to
their care. The Noble Baron (King), who had so long
shown his affection fur the Church of England, had, from
some recent inquiries, thought it better to transfer his
attention to the chore!' of Ireland.—(Hear.)
The Earl of DARNLEY was glad that the motion oF
the Noble Baron had been brought forward, as he con-
sidered it a mere preparation for the more comprehensive
and extended inquiry into the state of the whole church of
Ireland, which could not be much longer delayed.
Lord TEYNHAM defended the Clergymen of both
churches, Catholics as well as Prot-stants, from some of
the imputations which had been too thoughtlessly cast
against them.

The Duke of 'NORTHUMBERLAND felt it his duty
to say, that the I'rivy Council had -not determined the
matter, except upon very lengthened inquiries; and, hold-
in the situation lie then held, lie now felt it his duty to
say so.— (Ile:ir, hear.)--tie, for one, had not the slightest
ot!jection to the production of tile papers which the Noble
Baron required.

Lord KING, in reply, said the Privy Council might
have been imposed on us well as others. A memorial
would soon be pre,ent,d to them.
The motion was then agreed to.
TRADE WITH PORTUGAL.

ow la t e
Lord STRANGFORD said, that as it Nl,at
hum- (near eight o'clock), perhaps it would e i
convenient
to the Noble Lords oppos:tc if he postponed his motion.
--(Cries of " Go on.")
Earl GREY said his Noble Friend, the Secretary for
the Colonies, had come down to the House for the express
purpose of hearing the speech of tl:e Noble Lord, and they
had uo desire to Ltve it postponed.
Lord STRANGFORD then proceeded to move for the