The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-17 00:00:00

i

written declaration stated that he would go as far as I would
for the good of Ireland. That declaration contained nothing
but an unequivocal abhorrence of the principles of a Tory
Administration, and an unequivocal adherence to a Liberal
Administration. I put it to the House and to the country,
where I was in the slightest degree criminal in adopting that
Man ?---(Cheers.) Had he been in this House at this moment,
is there any man to reproach him ? Why, he was in this
House, and was met by every gentleman as an equal, and was
treated by them upon full terms of equality ; and I want to
know whether an English merchant who has acquired pro-
perty in trade is not to be treated on the footing of a gen-
tleman ? Why, is not that how all large properties are
realized ? Is trade any disparagement ?—( Hear, hear.) Well,
Mr. Raphael set up to represent a county. Ile was a mem-
ber also, it seems, of Brookes's Club.—( A laugh.) He had
gone through that ordeal ; and therefore I do laugh to scorn
all those who say I did wrong to support him as a candidate
for the county of Carlow. I do candidly admit that I did not
do it till I had exhausted Ireland. There was a family in
Ireland with whom I was at personal warfare at the time.
But I forgot my resentment. I said to one of that respectable
family, I think some of your relations have treated me ill—but
I don't care one farthing about that ; stand for Carlow, and
I willgo with you from door to door to secure your return.
He declined ; and then, as a last resort, I adopted an Eng-
lishman under those professions which I have already stated.
And that is my situation.—( Loud cheers.) Now, whatever
turpitude is attached to that, let it be so ! Let the Hon.
and Learned Member for Bradford say in what he was Mr.
naphaers superior at the period ? What I was he not once
Member for Carlow ? And I ask this fearlessly, at that period,
What was there about Mr. Raphael that made him in any de-
gree the inferior of the Hon. and Learned Member for Brad.
ford ?—( Cheers.) Nothing—nothing at all.--( Cheers.) He
have'would 'tis true, have voted the same way with me ; but should
I recommended him or any man if he would not ?—( Hear,
hear.) His principles were known. He had written them,
and put them in print. I am quite sure that if he had gone
from that pledge he would have heard of it both here and else-
where. Therefore, on this part of the case—the personal part
sssl stand upon these facts. Let any gentleman put his hand
to his heart, and say, notwithstanding I have been the stock in
trade to nine-tenths of those I see before me.—(oh, oh.)
What 1 no ! Had you a dinner—had you a public meeting at
Which I was not your stock in trade ?—( Cheers.) Who was
Your constant theme ? It was not the Hon. and Learned
Member for Bradford. And yet, when I recollect what oc-
curred between him and me—we happened to be in the Temple
together—when I met him afterwards I confess the recollec-
tions of early youth came over me, and I regarded him with
feelings of personal friendship—l greeted him as one of my
earliest acquaintances with a warmth of heart which he affected
to return.—( Oh.) Yes, I will do him the justice to say he
affected. —( Cheers.) What did I hear next ? Why that he
had got some persons to give him a dinner at Leeds before this
Raphael affair happened at all.
.4r. BAINES—Not at Leeds.
Mr. O'CONNELL—Oh I well perhaps I read it in the
-Leeds Mercury. (A laugh.) I suppose it was the Honour-
able and Learned Gentleman's own, but I wont call it by that
familiar and savoury name. ( A laugh.) But what was my
surprise to find that the man whom I had treated with the
wartntth of friendship—( Oh, oh !)—well, I don't care—( Oh,
s
I)—what was my astonishment to read a speech he made
there, in which he alluded to the religion I respect, and treated
t in the lowest terms that could possibly be used ? (Hear,
hear.) Not only was there a spirit of fanaticism running
through that speech, but there was a most gross personal at-
tack upon myself. I have the newspaper and can produce it,
containing the speech, stating that all my politics were mer-
cenary. I read it, and marked it at Brookes's three or four
days ago. (Hear, hear, hear, and a laugh.) I put it to him
Whether in assisting Mr. Raphael in the county of Carlow
tinder the circumstances stated, I did anything unbecoming the
station that I bear towards the Irish people, and the station I
bear as a gentleman ? By birth, by education, and in every-
thing, but in one unfortunate event (and for which let me
suffer the taunts of the world for avoiding its recurrence), I
am his equal; and even when I say that I bow to the House
—but I ask how I have degraded myself in the slightest de-
gree from that station ? What have I done inconsistently
with my station to the people of England or to the people of
Ireland, in bringing forward Mr. Alexander Raphael to the
consideration of the Irish constituency. (Loud cheers.) So
much as to my personal corruption, as it is called. Am I to
blame in endeavouring to get two votes on this side of the
House? (Cheers.) Am Ito blame in wishing to throw out the
Present Members for the county of Carlow ? ( Cheers.) Of one
of them I say nothing; but the other I hope will come before
this committee, where the facts can be inquired into, and
Where he must either clear his character from the most hor-
rible imputations, or the Committee must place him in that
situation in which he ought to be placed if he be guilty of
What is publicly charged against him.—(Hear, hear.) I only
demand inquiry at the same time, stating distinctly that I have
not the least fear of producing a list of evidence which will
d(rnonstrate the truth of those charges.—( Question, from
Mr. Scarlett.) I am obliged to the Hon. and Learned
,Member who cries question. I put to the House whether I
nave not—though at some length—confined myself to the
Arst question—personal corruption. I now come to the pe-
cuniary corruption. I don't want a pigmy or a giant to
acquit me of that charge. There is not a man in or out of
this House who does not feel that I am totally free from the
slightest taint.—( Hear, hear.) I defy calumny. I defy the
charges of those who read selected letters, and rest their
charge upon particular passages. The Hon. and Learned
Member for Bradford says he never heard of one man under-
taking for another. Why, surely he has not forgot his pro-
fessional mind ? The very word used—" guaranteeot "—is the
very word which one man uses to answer for her. What
are the facts ? During the Election Committee Mr. Raphael
was in constant communication with Mr. Vigors and with the
county of Carlow. He had written me a letter without
announcing to me that he had written to Carlow. He
happened to be present with Mr. Vigors at the Zoolo-
gical Society in Regent-street. A messenger arrived to
announce that the Committee had declared the election
void. Mr. Raphael instantly said to Mr. Vigors, " I am
Your man."—( Hear, hear.) They talked of terms. Mr.
Vigors stated that it was absolutely necessary that funds should
• be furnished to meet the legal expenses of the election ; for,
said he, " I am now exhausted." Mr. Raphael spoke as to the
amount. He thought 2,0001. a large sum. Vigors then said
that he must be off to Ireland, and asked whether Mr. Raphael
could not name a mutual friend to conduct the transaction.
Raphael named me.—(Tremendous cheering.) Now mark—
I tell the House that I will prove that distinctly. I had it from
Mr. Vigors's lips ; Mr. Vigors has written it, and I only im-
Plore the House to carry this with them, that throughout this
tissue of slanders by the Standard, the Times, and of every
body else, Mr. Vigors's conduct has not been impeached- by
any human being, as to his integrity and honour as a man and
a gentleman.—(Loud cheers.) Now, what was the strongest
Point which could be attacked, if those newspaper§ could have
tarnished the character of Mr. Vigors, when he came for-
ward with that most unequivocal declaration contained in his
setter to me, and I now ask the Honourable and Learned
Member for Bradford how he could avoid noticing that de-
, Varation ?—( Cheers.) The very moment Mr. Raphael pub-
55hed_ his letter, Mr. Vigors stated that I paid every farthing
10
oaim. What was the meaning for suppressing that fact ?
reat cheering.) The Honourable and Learned Member
h~hi,llradford was a recorder for a time. What an admirable
uge he must have made, if, having heard one part of the case,
,;left out all the rest I am ready, before an honest House
a Commons, to enter into a full inquiry ; but to decide upon
_ question where you have taken only one part of the case,
!sill say
an totally omitted all that has beets said on the other side—l
it is not English.—( Cheers.) It is un-English to the
l_ast degree.—(Cheers.) I know it is said of the contests in
my country that every body who comes to take a part is wait-
ng to see which is the weaker and which the stronger party,
end side by the stronger; but in England, when two persons
atr found fighting in the street, every body comes up to see
si Play. I admit that there is that distinction. But the
all". and Learned Member for Bradford, although knowing
the facts well, yet had suppressed every fact that told in my
Cheers I heard from those benches (the Opposition) when the
00. and Learned Member made his statement ? Are there
more
Englishmen there than the Hon. and Learned Member
for Bradford ? Englishism is banished.—(Oh, oh.) I like
tfhat groan ; it well becomes the Hon. and Learned Member
orZonwich—(Cheers)—ay, from the Member for Norwich.
(Tremendous cheers.)
e
h an A.lr•, chair.)
has SPEAKER—If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
for naY observations to make, he will have. the opportunity
making them when the Hon. and Learned Member for
Dublin sits down.
(Ord SCARLETT—Sir, I beg to say that I did not
The
r, order s chair, chair.)
I thin SPAKER—Does the Hon. Member rise to order ?
ga k he is speaking merely because he considers himself to
ve been personally alluded to. If so, he will have an
kPportunity to make his observations when the Hon. and
earned Member has sat down.
Mr. SCA RL gIT—I rise to order, Sir. It was, however,
tnY intention to preface what I had to say by declaring that I
Chuot give any groan nor any exclamation at all.—( Order !
ri)
LCTelle SPEAKER—The Hon. Member is quite aware that
~rnnot rise for the purpose of making any observation.
%alai • SCARLETT—I assure you, Sir—( Order, order
(chars chair !). I hope I may be believed when I say—
! Order Order 1) The question is this—l wish to state—
Order, order I)
The SPEAKER—Mr. O'Connell.
. O'CONNELL—I am sorry I have given the Hon.
,%-sentleman so much—l am sincerely sorry I mistook him.
;IKlowever I did not mistake him in calling " Question" a while
!°e; Well, Sir, I have stated that part of the case that re-
to
pecuniary to pecuniary corruption. Now I beg to remind the
zsouse, that at the period in which the question arose as to the
amount to be given by Mr. Raphael towards the expenses,
counsel were retained by the rejected Members for another
Petition. And here I have to complain of the Hon. and
Learned
Member for Bradford, who, in putting this case of
Pecuniary corruption, did not tell the House bow Mr Ra-
Paitel's share of the expenses was paid. He could not have
contest in a county in Ireland for five days, nor even the
appearance of a contest, without incurring expenses. Is
not that manifest ?—(Loud cheers.) Was any one ever
engaged in a contested election who had not money to
ply for legal and legitimate expenses ?—( Hear, hear.)
.Iy.orw, when I stated to the House the conversation between
M • Raphael and Mr. Vigors on the 28th of May, I also
stated (and I am ready to prove it), that my name as
the depository of the money was first mentioned by Mr. Ra-
phael. Mr. Vigors then came to me, and stated that it was
possible for him to go to the contest with a less sum than
two thousand pounds. My answer was, that it was not likely

two thousand pounds would be given for the mere chance of
being returned; but that if he could get one thousand pounds
to be joined with money of his own to pay the expences of
the contest, then he would be entitled to be re-imbursed any
extra expences which the contest might lawfully put him to ;
and if there was any surplus remaining over, there were the
widows and orphans of those who bad fallen victims to the
merciless conduct of the landlords, and whose wailings and
screams were in vain assailing the ears of their oppressors for
bread to keep them from starving.—(Oh, and loud cheers.)
But as to a petition against the return, there was no doubt
there would be one, because Mr. Austin had already been re-
tained by the unseated Members ; so that tkey must have a
contest, or a show of a contest, in order to have afterwards a
petition. Well, Sir, there was a contest, and there was a
petition. Is there any evidence of the slightest allegation that.
I was to get one penny of the 2,0001. for myself? Where is
the allegation ? I challenge the Honourable and Learned
Member to read that allegation. Has Mr. Raphael made it ?
He has not.—(Cheers.) He has said directly the reverse.
In ono of my letters I said—" Return me this letter, as it
vouches 8001. for me." But where has the Honourable and
Learned Member found the allegation ? He has not made it,
I do him the justice to say he has not made it. The party
by whom he is supported shouted him on to make it—but he
has not ; and here I defy any man to make it, who reads the
documents that have been published.—( Loud and continued
cheers.) Mr. Vigors remained in London during the Satur-
day after the decision of the Committee, to see whether I could
arrange between Raphael and him. The Carlow men also re-
mained till Saturday, to see if an arrangement could be made
between Raphael and Vigors. On Sunday it was imperative
on Mr. Vigors to be off to Ireland. On Sunday, the 31st of
May, Mr. Raphael, after declining to see me on the Saturday,
saw me ; and on that day he agreed to give for the legal ex-
penses of the election 1,000/. ; and to give, the moment he was
returded, another 1,000/. ; and the only question which the
House has to ask is, whether these two sums have been given
for a legal or an illegal purpose?—( Cheers.) The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman has not this night ventured to say that
they were given for either purpose; but by supposing cases,
he says that these things may be turned into improper uses.
What may not be turned into improper uses?—(Cheers.) But
I want to know what sort of a Recorder the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman would be, if, instead of trying the case before him,
he tried a fictitious case—an imaginary one—not before him?
What the Hon. and Learned Gentleman might have paid at
Pontefract for legal or illegal expenses cannot be ascertained.
But it is not because money is paid that bribery is committed.
There are legal expenses at elections ; but under the pretence
of paying legal expenses, illegal ones are often paid ; hence
bribery and corruption are often included under the pretence of
paying legal expenses. Indeed all bribery is committed under
this pretence. Nobody says boldly and at once—" I will bribe !"
But to judge by what might happen is nothing—it is absurd.
It is not only ungenerous—that is not the word—it is infinitely
harder ; yet this is the species of calumny with which they
come out upon me, and make a charge against me—not because
anything has happened, but because something might happen
—( Cheers.) I may be asked, why did I agree that Mr. Raphael
should pay the specific sum of 2,000/. My answer is, be-
cause that was the wish of Mr. Raphael himself. He told
me he had stood for Leeds and Pontefract, and had paid on
both occasions more money than he was told he would have
to pay ! And when did any Hon. Member on the other side
ever enter into a contested election who had not more to pay
than he was told he should have to pay ?—(Cheers.) Under
these circumstances Mr. Vigors was satisfied that the liability
of Mr. Raphael should be limited ; and it was limited. He
indeed lodged 4,5001. with a Mr. Poole, in Salisbury-street,
Strand. But the particulars of that transaction are gone
out of my mind. However, the stipulation made by me for
Vigors was that Raphael's expenditure should be limited to
a specific sum. Now, I put this question to the House ?
Am I one shilling the better for all this ?—( Cheers.) Nay
more—did I retain one shilling of the money a moment be-
yond the time it was called for? The day after the con-
versation between Raphael and Vigors, the latter left Lon-
don for Ireland. That was on the 31st of May. On the
4th of June I received a letter from him, which I communi-
cated to Mr. Raphael, with his details of the election pro-
ceedings. But was I to get one shilling of the money ?
Whose money was it? I sent 5001. by a check, and 300/.
by a draft, to Mr. Vigors, in Ireland, before I was asked
for it ; and the only delay I ever made in the payment
of it was when a gentleman, an agent, asked me at seven
o'clock in the evening, at the door of this-House, to pay him
the balance due to him, I told him that if he would comp
to me in the morning, at eight o'clock, he should have the
money. He came, and I gave him the money, and by mis-
take I gave him fifteen pounds over the money that ever came
into my hands from Raphael.—( Hear, hear.) Oh 1 if after this
any man says I was to get the money, let him state it.—
(Cheers.) Let it not be insinuated, but let it be said.—
(Cheers.) And let that man say it at his risk, that I was .to
get one penny of it ; that I was to be tarnished, as the peti-
tion from Bath says, with one farthing of it.—(Loud cheers.)
Never was a poorer, or a more unfounded insinuation. I want
no Committee on this point. Can any man show me an alle-
gation even that I had any part of this money ? Raphael
was disappointed. He is my enemy ; I ant not his friend,
certainly. He has given utterance to many—many foul
falsehoods. I have stated that already, and I repeat it here ;
but I defy him—l call upon him—l taunt him with his inabi-
lity to state that which he has never yet stated—namely, that
I ever received, or was promised one penny of this money.—
( Cheers.) And, oh 1 is it not cruel that I should be de-
fending myself, then, from insinuation ?—( Cheers.) I put it
to the mind of every honest and honourable gentleman,
whether any thing can be more cruel than that accusation
which is not embodied enough to be boldly asserted by any
body, which nobody dares to utter, but which the base-
ness of party induces a man more basely to insinuate ?
( Cheers.) Now, Sir, behold, I was not to get any of
this money, when it was originally placed in my hands;
did I keep a penny of it ?—did I detain a farthing of it ?
Did I ? Have you not the evidence of Mr. Vigors, who states
that I gave him every penny ? And this evidence is to be
overlooked—this evidence is to be kept out of sight—and I am
to be arraigned before this House in good set and round terms,
and beautiful impromptus are to be made, excellent jests
retailed, and even Scriptures to be quoted against me. I did
not get one penny of the money.—( Opposition cheers.)
Yes : who dares to say I did ?—( Cheers.) Nobody ! Who says
„I did not have, and was not to have, one penny of it ? The un-
impeached and unimpeachable Mr. Vigors—Mr. Vigors, the
man whom nobody deprecates—the man whom every one ad-
mits to be among the most respectable gentlemen in the com-
munity. I defy party spirit, even in Carlow—even in Carlow,
where it runs in the kennels, to bring one single charge, or
solitary accusation, against the character of Mr. Vigors. I
feel on this occasion, as it is natural I should, after the loads
of calumny which have been cast upon me—the obloquy and
slander that have been heaped upon me—the ingenuity which
has been used to pervert every fact and circumstance against
me. I appeal to every honourable man who hears me, and
the mind of every honourable man will readily furnish an ex-
cuse for my dwelling on this part of the subject. I was not,
I say again, to get one penny of the money ; I did not get one
penny of it ; I would rather die ten thousand deaths than
have any man state, with the slightest colour or appearance of
foundation—though no man has done so yet—that I was to get
one penny of the money, or that any man should have the
least colour for stating that I did actually get one penny of it
for myself. Having been the agent between the county of
Carlow electors and Mr. Vigors, and this sum of 2,000/.
having been obtained, the House has a right to inquire whe-
ther it was employed by any individual in furtherance of any
bribery or corruption, or for any improper purpose. Now who
is the man who says it was? Who is it, who says it was?
Who is it who does not know what it really was for ? Mr.
Vigors has stated in his petition that he got the money, that
he is responsible to the House for its expenditure, and that he
is ready to show how he spent it. And what does the Hon.
Member for Bradford do ? Leaves out Mr. Vigors's evidence
and the application of the money altogether.—(Cheers.)
The Hon. Member for Bradford has the resolution—l will
call it by no harder name—to propose to this House a motion
for an inquiry, from which the question of the application of
the money shall be altogether excluded. Good God ! was
ever anything heard so outrageous ! What do I want? Full,
fair, and impartial inquiry into the application of every penny
of that money.—(Hear, hear, from Mr. Hardy.) I thank
hint for that; why did he not put it in his resolution? Ile
cries " Hear, hear" now, but it would have been better, for
the accommodation of his conscience,` had he included it in
the resolution he originally proposed.—( Cheers.) The elec-
tion commenced somewhere about the 18th of July ; there
were five days' polling, and one day's nomination ; there
were three booths in the county, and the deputies and
officers of those three booths. The full sum for all this
expense that Mr. Vigors had to account for is 1,000/. Is
there any man in this House who doubts that 1,0001. was
actually spent in defraying these expenses ?—( Continued
cheers.) Well, then, a petition comes on, another 1,0001. is
advanced. Does any man doubt the extent of the demands on
that 1,000/. ?—(Cheers.) What is Mr. Raphael's case ? Mr.
Raphael's case is—and this is the only point I would wish to
have left to arbitration—the only one I would leave to the ar-
bitration of any gentleman of any party in this House—Mr.
Raphael's case is, whether by the guarantee I gave to Mr. Vi-
gors, he was bound to go on with the petition at his own ex-
pense, after the 1,0001. was expended. The question arose ;
Mr. Vigors decided it against himself; and then Mr. Raphael
against my advice and Mr. Vigors's entreaty, changed the so-
licitor, appointed a solicitor of his own, and went on for seven
or eight days in a hopeless controversy before the Committee.
Why do I state that? To meet the case of Mr. Raphael out
of the House, for in the House his case is, that the entire
9,000/. was expended, and that he expended more besides, in
legal expenses. I have trespassed at considerable length upon
the House, but it was my duty and my right.—( Cheers.) Now
let me sum up. As to the personal corruption—a point upon
which the Hon. Member for Bradford made a digression to the
Monboddo tails, and the impromptu which called forth the im-
passioned and vehement cheerings of the Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite—as to the personal corruption in procuring and assisting
Mr. Raphael to sit for the county of Carlow, I am perfectly
free from censure, or'from blame, or from the reprobation of Par-
liament. As to the 2,0001. pecuniary corruption, if the Hon.
Member for Bradford had been allowed to go on, according to
his own opinions, I should not have beard of it at all ; he has,
however, made that charge, but even to-night he has not dis
tinctly persevered in it ; and even if he had, it is refuted not only
document in the case. He talks of
possibilities
by the pet
petition, i ohno,wbeuvter by;
eery
andrhaving defeated him on the realities
,
of the case, I will now meet him on the possibilities. The
Honourable and Learned Member says this money might
have been applied to certain purposes. Might ! He must
take the circumstances of the case. Was there not abundant
room for expenditure in the situation in which the people in
the county of Carlow were placed, and in the distresses of the
poor ? And am I to be shut out from proving the reality of
that expenditure, and the magnitude of that distress, in order
to show the utter impossibility of one penny less being spent

'by any body ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) Now, Sir, I come back
again—after I have been hunted through the newspapers for
six months, after I have been the subject of eery Tory
meeting, every Tory dinner, and every election thhas taken
place, I ask the House whether it is not unbecoming a man
to give the slightest countenance to charges of this kind,
when all I ask is, a full, complete, fair, and fundamental in-
quiry ?—( Cheers.) I then mean to ask more. Let that in-
quiry be made by fair and honourable men. I say by fair and
honourable men ; for men who are fair and honourable for
other purposes, are not so when they have political or per-
sonal interests of their own involved. I see before me not
judges, but accusers—(Cheers)—not jurors but partisans, not
arbitrators but persons interested, humble as I am, in putting
me down.—(Loud cheers.) It may be vanity in me to sup-
pose so, but can I avoid that vanity when I read the news-
papers for the last six months, although I see the men wli,)
condemn me behind my back sitting opposite congregated to-
gether, and disclaiming any intention to pack the committee
against me ? Now, I will not be put down by an attempt to
pack the committee. I will not submit to it. There has been a
committee agreed upon, I am told, and that arrangement has
been broken off. All my life I have been battling—and one of the
misfortunes of Ireland is, that all my life I have been battling
against faction—gamblers with the loaded dice, who have the
game in their own hands. Am Ito submit to a Committee of
this description ? Oh, I entreat you, honourable English
Gentlemen, who may be led away by partyl regret that I
cannot carry the adjuration further than England and Scot-
land—l call upon honourable Englishmen and Scotchmen to
protect me against a packed jury—a packed jury determined
not to try, but to convict me.—( Cheers.) As to my accuser
himself, I have no objection to his being my accuser, but I
have the strongest objection, from the manner in which he has
treated me, to his being one of my judges. Yes, I have, and
it was on this account that I alluded awhile ago to O'Sullivan.

The Hon. Gentleman was one of those who made that attack
on the Catholics of Ireland, on which they were shut out from
any defence, unless, indeed, they sent over to Ireland to the
Catholic Bishops for authority. Now when I know this, when
I hear the Hon. Gentleman's speech, when I see him com-
ing forward under pretence of neutrality, and attacking me,
and when I see acts acts of injustice, reiterated in his place, and
repeated at a dinner at Bradford, I own I would rather be
tried by a certain black gentleman who holds his court in a
certain warm region, than I would by the Hon. Member for
Bradford.—( Hear, and a laugh.) No, I am before the English
people, and to them I appeal. I am the enemy of every corrup-
tion; I am for searching through and exterminating it. But let
us not have the mockery of a single case. I call upon you now
to act ; the time is come--the Parliament is reformed—the bene-
fits of the Reform Bill can be lost only by corruption. Let us go
into a full inquiry of the moneys expended by the Reform As-
sociation on the one hand and theCarltonClub on the other.
(Cheers, and a cry of " Oh !" from the Opposition Benches.)
Why the people of England are entitled to it. I want it for
them. Let me have the happiness of exposing this to the
people of England, which I state to be the fact—that at the
last general election corruption and bribery reached to a
height before unparalleled and unknown. Men both in the law
and the army were sent to every accessible place, and money in
Treasury franks was received to carry on the war. The old
freemen were engaged again for the purpose of supporting
men—there happened to be such candidates, but not returned
—who had not one single qualification of legislators or states-
men, and who did not possess either the public or private cha-
racter which would have warranted their return to this House.
Let us have these things inquired into. Why talk to me of the
mote in my eye, when the beam is in your own ? Meet me
firmly and fairly. Give me a committee, and let me have the
evidence printed and laid before the people of England. Give
me the committee, and I will put a notice on the paper before
we leave the House to-night, of my intention to move for leave
to bring in a Bill—mark this, assist me to pass it—to indem-
nify all the witnesses except myself, who shall give evidence
before any committee of this House of Commons, from all
suits, actions, and indictments, by reason of anything con-
tained in their evidence. The Honourable and Learned
Member for Bradford, now so anxious on this motion,
was one of the lawyers who were the most anxious of
any in the House to prevent people committing themselves in
the Great Yarmouth case. "Do not criminate yourself,"
said the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to every witness.
Why, should not a man criminate himself ? It is useful to cri-
minals, but it is useless for the purposes of justice. If it be
an English privilege, have the benefit of it for indemnity,
but not for absurdity.--( Opposition cheers.) I challenge you
all, cheerers of the Hon. Member for Bradford there, if you
are as pure as you insinuate by that cheer, to come with me to
the ordeal, join with me in the Bill of which I have just ex-
pressed my intention of giving notice ; let every man be in-
demnified for every thing connected with his disclosures before
a Committee of this House, and then make it punishable as a
misdemeanour to make a wilful or corrupt statement before
any such tribunal. At present it is no offence at all in civil
law ; make it an offence, and join with me in this Bill. I
will detain the House no longer. I feel that I have subjected
myself to the accusation of having improperly supported Mr.
Raphael : thus have I defended myself against the charge--
not the charge, but the base insinuation—that I have one
farthing of pecuniary corruption to defend. lam already ac-
quitted by the verdict of the English people, and I am sure to
be by this House.—( Loud cheers.)
The question was then put.
Mr. WALTER was relieved from the necessit: of replying
to the attacks which had been made against him by the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman by the fact of their being utterly
groundless, and equally destitute of proof or foundation: He
was much better satisfied, however, with the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman's attacks against him in that House, than he was
with his abuse out of it, because in the one case he had an op-
portunity of replying to his scandalous insinuations, while in
the other they were made with perfect safety, and with secu-
rity from contradiction or reply. He would only pause on this
point, first, to say that he treated the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman's menaces with the contempt they deserved; and, se-
condly, to inquire why he had not made the exposure of him
( Mr. Walter) which he had so loudly threatened ? What had
his (Mr. Walter's) election expenses, in 1832, to do with the
subject before the House ? The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man appeared to have received the money in question in a
manner in which lie ought not to have received it—( No, and
cheers)—and now, by way of defence against so heavy a charge,
he came forward and accused him (Mr. Walter) with 'ex-
pending money at his own election four years ago. He would
not detain the House further on such contradictory absurdi-
ties. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman did not pretend
to say that he (Mr. Walter) had ever endeavoured to
seduce his virtuous innocence.—( Opposition cheers and
laughter.) He did not, therefore, see what right he had to
bring a charge against him on a subject of which he knew
nothing whatever, and of which whatever he had known or
had stated was totally devoid of truth. Whatever he (Mr.
Walter) expended, had come out of his own pocket. —( A
laugh.) He had extorted nothing from the poor and needy.
He sat in that House, free and unembarrassed, to support his
opinion, and give his vote in the manner his conscience dic-
tated. The object of his contest was to give efficient effect to
the Reform Bill, which prohibited any traffic in seats in that
House. The object of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he
should contend, if the present charge were substantiated, was
to impair it. Which of the two should be carried into effect
the ultimate decision of the House would show. He hoped,
at all events, that after they had destroyed the English bo-
roughmongers in detail, they would not suffer a wholesale
dealer (as the Hon. and Learned Member for Bradford had
so well said) in Ireland.--( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WA S ON, after complaining of a private conversation
between himself and the Hon. Member for Bradford having
been made public by the latter gentleman, said that he treated
the present motion with becoming contempt. It was a party
question out of the House, and he was free to express his be-

lief that it was ala ty question in it.—(Hear, hear.) He
had given notice of a motion requiring the evidence to be
taken at the Bar of the House, because he thought it impos-
sible that a Select Committee could be appointed in whom the
public would repose confidence. If the majority of its Mem-
bers were from the other side of the House, the people
would be suspicious, and if they were selected from those
(the Ministerial) benches, the Tory papers would declare that
the Committee was a packed one. It was only last night that
the Standard newspaper, in allusion to the present proceed-
ing, contained the following passage :—" We must once again
warn the public to look steadily to the committee to be ap-
pointed on Mr. O'Connell's case to-morrow night. Nothing
but the artful packing of the tribunal of first instance, can, we
are persuaded, save Mr. O'Connell from the consequences of a
full exposure of conduct, the slightest penalty of which, if the
prima facie evidence is to be trusted, must be his and his son
John's expulsion from the House of Commons." When he
found such charges made by one of the most respectable, if
not the most respectable of the Tory organs, lie had thought it
his duty to suggest a mode of proceeding on that charge which
would afford the public an opportunity de die in diem of watch-
ing the progress of the case. On the only charge which af-
fected his character, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
been tried by an adverse judge, and that adverse judge had most
expressly given publicity to his opinion of the Learned Gentle-
man's innocence. The expression of opinion to which he alluded
was to be found in Sir Francis Burdett's celebrated letter to the
members of Brookes's. The object of that letter was to procuro
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's expulsion from the club.
Could it be supposed that such a man as Sir Francis Burdett
would have descended to the mean and petty charge of merely
using violent language, if he bad for a moment supposed that
any portion of this money had been applied to an improper
purpose, or withheld by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman ?
( Hear, hear.) He believed there was no Parliamentary
ground for this inquiry; but as the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Dublin had himself demanded it, he thought he was
entitled to it. If the Hon. and Learned Member had been
guilty of any practical corruption, the Statute-book provided
an effectual remedy. An information ought to have been
laid, and penalties recovered against him. No such informa-
tion had been laid. There were lawyers of great ability and
reputation on the other side of the House, but not one of them
bad even expressed his belief that such information could be
laid against the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He thought
there was no lawyer in that House who would state upon h►s
priessional reputation that either the letter or spirit of the
Statute had been violated by the lion. and Learned Gentle-
man. There was one strange anomaly in the present pro-
eeeding--it was not intended to have one tittle of evidence
laid before the committee with which the public were not
already fully acquainted. He consented to enter into com-
mittee only for the purpose of hearing the testimony of Mr.
Vigors—of hearing exactly in detail the manner in which the
money had been expended, and of ascertaining whether the
statements contained in the petition of Mr. Vigors were, or
were not, well founded.
Mr. WA (MURTON did not consider the resolution before
:he House of a nature which, when referred to a committee,
would give the Hon. and Learned Gentleman a complete op-
portunity of a full investigation. The Hon. and Learned
Member for Bradford proposed to give no opportunity what-