The Sun.
London, England, 1836-03-05 00:00:00

the injuries inflicted on British commerce for want of an ade-
quate naval force, and in consequence of the blockade
main-
tabled upon that station.
Lord PALMERSTON was sorry to hear the Honourable
Member express regret that hostilities did not take force,
There was no occasion for the employment of force to ,
because a communication between the Governments led to a

satisfactory explanation.
Mr. YOUNG expressed no regret that war had not follor4ed.
Tile explanation might have been satisfactory to the hoped
ble
Lord, but not to those who lost their property. fle

;hey would be indemnified.
Lord PALNIERSTON said the blockade was put an

end to.
Mr. YOUNG said it ceased only at the season when trade

could no longer be carried on. -
Mr. ROEBUCK should be glad to know what CaPt?ri;
Parker had to do with the internal affairs of Spain ?
he authorised to put down the democrats there as Well as the
Carli3ts ?
Mr. WOOD said he was, in this transaction, quite an in.f
:
different party. He only intimated to the Governor that, If
desired, he was ready to land a party of sailors to prevetl

bloodshed.
Mr. ROBINSON was quite ready to corroborate the state,
ment of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wood) as to the necessiti
of increased protection to commerce, without any view to 1105'
tilities. It was satisfactory to hear that the proposed addition

of men had no reference whatever to war.
Were the
Mr. HUME was happy to say that these estimates e
most complete he had yet seen. He regretted, however, thert
was no reduction in the sinecure department. With reseec
to the increase in the number of men, he used formerly to bear
the same reasons stated for it as he heard now—the pretee'
tion of commerce. The commerce of the United States wa,g.
as extensive as ours, and it was better protected with one-tenth
of the naval force. Their commerce was not greater now than
it was three years ago.—( Hear, hear, from Mr. Weed.l
What new discovery had been made since of comielercia,
markets ? If the number of men now proposed was so gr.eall"'t
what ground was there for the complaints against the 14 e
Hon. Baronet opposite ( Sir Robert Peel)? In 1817 thee,.
were only 15,000 men voted, and he then contended that thee,
number should he reduced to the standard of 1792. Franc
being now their friend, one would think the number of Ur
might be still further reduced. In 1820, they had only 23,0 d
men, which were subsequently reduced as low as 21,000 an '
22,000, and then again increased. He never knew a Nalr'
ad
Officer who, like his Hon. and Gallant Friend ( Sir Edwa,,,
Codrine•ton), would not increase the force as much as he cow
The plea that we must be prepared for war was an old arg'l-
ment. Of whom were we to be afraid ? Of Russia ? gns-
sia had only eighteen ships at Cronstadt, and six in the Baltiel
ise"
Besides, Russia was our ally. Hon. Gentlemen had ra
the Russian Bear to such a station, that they had now becomee
frightened at their own imagination. Why, we were at pekes
with the whole world, and Government had said that there al,
every chance of a continuance of that peace. He could on
see why the same number of men would not do that we hadnld
1792. There was no prospect whatever that Russia we'd
ever attempt to cope with this country on the sea, and, indeet;
with England and France united, it was quite pieposterollsto
expect that any thing was to be feared from Russia, so as
0,,
render more men necessary. He must be understood, hop
ever, as not wishing at all to cramp the naval service, f0r...1,i
was most anxious that in that department (whatever he anobe
think as to the array), the power of Great Britain should
maintained. What he objected to was any unnecessary increastie.;
Sir JAMES GRAHAM considered the alterations I°,o
by the Board of Admiralty general improvements, and lawnio
particularly as to the mode of stating the estimates. He ;bat
glad to see that they were now so plain and intelligible, ef
he who ran might read." With respect to the questienut
the increase in the number of men, he ( Sir J. Graham) c 0 to '
state that his own experience at the Admiralty had been.
convince him that any attempt at a diminution would be Nos
dicious, and that, on the other hand, there were many reased.
why there should be an additional number of men emplaYe,,,...
He had been well informed that, in case of a sudden ern'en
geney, it would be better to go into action with six ships etat
manned, than with ten worse manned • and he thought t
we were bound to provide against such' possible cases. Illy
as to the employment of boys in the navy—that had been parlla
in consequence of his (Sir J. Graham's) own suggestion,
he was glad to find that the Board of Admiralty had not °l:be
thought fit to act on the plan, but moreover to increasS
number of boys employed. He was able to refer the 11,%- t
to a passage in the last Message of the American Presilii:
recommending the adoption of the same system there. \ be
respect to the main question—the number of men t°,e
employed—he could not concur with the Honourable .Ni 4,•
le.tr for Middlesex ; and, although a proposition t°
silo
crease had never been made from his (Sir J. Graham's) ,her
of the House, no proposition to reduce had, on then'e
hand, been made. The Honourable Member for Midr-eef
said, " Of whom were we afraid ?" As a Menlhe'neid
the British House of Commons, he ( Sir J. Graham) s'f-ana
answer that they were afraid of no one, but that they everesrbe
ought to be, prepared to meet any one.—( Hear, hear.) the
Hon. Gentleman opposite had gone into many details fors
in
purpose of showing that British merchants at various eecrtir
the world were calling for protection ; but from his (..) say
Graham's) experience at the Admiralty, he was enabled to,ioo
that if all the applications of British merchants for protec: be
were attended to, an increase of 20,000 men would riel-se.
adequate to meet the demands upon the naval force. H°
J. Graham) was decidedly of opinion that, under existing,fie.
cumstances, an augmentation of the naval force was desifa' in
Altogether he was prepared most cordially to give his vote
favour of these estimates.
Mr. C. WOOD was glad to have the support 0
Hon. Baronet. With respect to the increase off tliniet4i,:he
the a
begged to remind the Hon. Member for Middlesex
men employed during peace were very different front t'
employed during war, and that the same observation aPP
to the boys. pti"
Sir R. PEEL—The amount of force proposed in the
mates of last year was 24,500 men and 2,000 boys ; rt.baa
now there is undoubtedly an increase proposed of not less Dut
5,000 men, as well as an increase in the number of boys. sways
although the estimate of last year was that only, I balemlose%9
contended, in opposition to the Hon. Member for Mins eet
and still contend, that the number called for in one Year b' tee
to be a rule for another year ; and therefore, althelig oats
present vote is a considerable increase on the vote of 185%101.
I am not prepared to say that the increase is not nece-toero
I do not object either to the increase of this year,- anY se 1
than I passed a censure on the estimates of the last, beano as
must say that when the responsible Ministers of the Crerried to
sure us that the increase is required, their opinion is entit boo
peculiar attention from the access they must necessarilYebo.
to information which it might be highly imprudent to tiisentle
rt
There is, however, one statement made by the Hon. float.
man, the Secretary for the Admiralty, which does not aZit
to be in exact harmony with the proposition he makes for
increase of our naval force. The Hon. Gentleman tells ns, fo•
we are in no danger of a war, and disclaims all idea of aneJoall
reign aggression, and yet he says that he hopes the Ilan!twill
be unanimous on this vote, because of the moral effect I see
have upon foreign Powers. Now, I confess, I caenat`bere
what
.moral effect our unanimity can produce unlesg., JD'
exists some necessity for it, and here the necessity
claimed. What moral effect can our unanimity have et'neern;
tical Powers? None ; but if at the same time the "°„-a
ment considers that a good effect is likely to be predno't tbo
should be extremely sorry to disturb the unanimitY
House. The Hon. Gentleman tells the House that 'OlOO
commerce is in danger on account of the scandalous a that
carried on in slaves by the South American States, att'ree
it is necessary for that reason to have a protecting tia'to sa'
those seas. This, and the state of Spain, lam botin,enetise
mit form a combination of facts which call upon the r'se in
give the Government
.credit for good reason to ask f°l,, -oat-
crease of the naval power of the country. The floas",:es
also see in the relative situation of France and Atat,c;iirs,)i
the present moment some cause for an increase.—(C"-etlyni°
Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was extremely grajere,°:,
to him to hear the speeches made by Hon. Gentlemen t
site, and more particularly that of the Hon. Bar„°neleevern:
spoke last, confiding as they did in the statement 01 ea;
ment that the increase to our naval establishment this iff-te tb
called for by circumstances. He should confine hirtised"
statement of his Hon. Friend the Secretary of the Alll,l °
00
who told the House that it was necessary, for the protee'llop
our commerce, to have an increase of 5,000 men to eurcseioa:
It was clearly shown that our extended commerce in cessar4
parts of the world demanded this increase. It was ne,,eart"o
that we should keep up our navel strength in every
t in
to which British commerce was extended. It was ntbo
strength of our army that we were to compete with a ci
foreign Posers, but in our navy. France had inereni-,eet ;
naval force, and so had Russia. Russia had twentY"e'vdt 11-t
of the line in the Baltic in the last winter, and alt s 000
practice was to keep only one-third of that force aln:fs, g.sht
of port, for the purpose of accustoming the men tot -et
le be
had, in the last season, kept constantly out of l'er-Siatile
two-thirds of that force. He did not mean to saY
disposition of Russia was other than peaceful ; baeteirina/-
contended that if other European Powers increased tai;ce
force, this country should not be supine upon that f pes
Mr. LABOUCHERE did not think that in a titnec°ll
the European Powers were justified in keeping 1113 shutedli las
naval armaments, but as such was the case it linden", to re
came England, the first naval Power in the world, not the
in her exertions. mall 10
Sir G. CLERK congratulated the Hon. Gent;e;,fieci
Secretary for the Admiralty in having for once sa-
Hon. Member for Middlesex. for
Mr. HUME—He has not done that.—( A langl;:,'aber be
Sir G. CLERK—In the last year the Hon. aovi.o(
Middlesex moved for a reduction of 4,000 men, 8:1,h 0'01;110
supports an increase, merely contenting himself W" osig"be
a protest. He ( Sir G. Clerk) thought the reasorgostitoob
by the Government for an increase sufficient to 'lee
House in agreeing to it. The state of our trade on ' ee•
, fer fit
American coasts alone would require a considerable e trtbe
Sir E. C 0 D RING TON said that there Wer;eatari,ltafitslbclo:oli
sail of the line at St. Petersburgh alone last
Emperor was increasing the number: Governl scp,
f
have attended to what was going on in the 131acrebeil°4'
be
the attacks made upon our old ally the Turks. eet t° ea
this country was not kept in the efficient state it outfoeer 00
in. At the battle of Navarin he had scarcelY anttent• del
board his fleet that had ever been in an engageete line gig
would rather have, in an engagement, six sail of t'At
manned than ten sail with inexperienced seamen. oder 00,
he had only nine men and a half to work a 321°
tour
,
laugh)—although the necessary complement was rdist
Indeed the enemy had fifteen men to each gun. his ehoecil
Mr. GROTE was certainly disposed to
hgoievied ac.rYe,eor9
support to the present Government, but he s
wish to have statements so important rest upon see'
„,. ne
than the mere word of the Minister of the day.
old
Mr. ROBINSON considered that an incredaesiGerti:;:in
force was absolutely necessary, as we were