The Sun.
London, England, 1831-06-22 00:00:00

THE KING'S SPEECH.

At a Quarter past Five o'clock, the Speaker said that the
House having been summoned to attend his Majesty in the
Lords, he had procdred a copy of his Majesty's most
gracious speech, which to prevent mistakes he should then
read.

The SPEAKER having read the speech, a copy of which
will be found in another column,
The Hon. Mr. PELHAM ro,e to move that the House

doh
ies gerravnintga,nonhr
soblebaeldodvreedssbtyo
hits
Sovereign,
itl,eop people.—(Loud cheers.
dchseyaers s
5.3
His Majesty had stated, in his most gracious speech, that
his reason far dissolving the late Parliament was," for
the
theplirpe of ascertainingo
senseep
rof h
expediencyr's f a in the resin peoples
tation.
'
on
'
Sir, I think that was a good reason' for when I con-
sider that at a time when every person out of doors
i
was in the expectation—the ceitimate expectation--
of a Reform in Parliament, his Majesty's Ministers were
defeated in this House by a msjority of only one,
in reference to that Bill, and afterwards on a colla-
teral!nuigtt et
eh—e pointlvmh measure
by on obnel
fyo r ae
its small meaol
ilildm:lijeorditiys,etTsstehdusin dcefoeina
consider these things, I do not indeed
see how his Majesty's Ministers
rs stcould have advised
the I
t h(eL o
otheru
side,eer
willputSovereigni
totothetakteiona.nymoetmhbere oepn.
if
the Ministers had, with the support
with the confidence of his Majesty, resigned
the people,
office—(Hear, hear)—l will put it to
ignl
them to
tell me who would have undertaken, with
the con-
fidence of the people's support, to conduct the
ent—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial Benches)_ove
Govern_
in
when every person out of doors was in expectation that the
Reform Bill would be passed, and when I do not
suppose
that those lion. Gentlemen would themselves have brought
forward the same plan.—(Loud cries of hear, hear.)_ I
think the result, Sir, most triumphantly establishes
the truth of what I have just said, and show's
in a very striking light the wisdom of his Majesty's 11-
niaters. Why, Sir, out of the 82 English county me,_
hers that have been returned, '76 are pledged to support
the Reform Bill. Out of 50 Members of the great
towns, forty-two are pledged to its support; and I may
be accused of vanity when I speak of myself, yet,
when I recollect that although I was in this House
representing only a small borough, and was ex_
I was called on by the
pecting again to represent it,
freeholders of one of tha largest counties in England, to
conic forward against my wish, against that of my family,
to become their representative—in opposition to a gen-
tleman of much private respectability, who had been
a long time Member of this House, and whose
h father
was a Member for the county before im.—
I do say that my election for so populous anuen-
tial a county, is no mean pi oof of the popularity of the
Reform Bill. It ought too to be stated that the Hon.
Ex-Heinber for Cornwall, who gave notile that he would

Move ad amendment on the Bill, and the Gallant Member
who did move an amendment, were both rejected
by a most triumphant majority on their appeal to their
constituents.—(Hear, hear.) His Majesty is next please
to state that " the assurances of a friendly disposition
which continue to be received from all Foreign Powers,
encourage the hope that, notwithstanding the civil
commotions ch have disturbed some parts of
Europe, and the cont,st now existing in Poland, the
general peace will be maintained." Sir, that war
exists in Poland I much lament. The cause of that
war too is very distress'ng. But I believe that his
Majesty's Ministers would not be justified in recommending
his M jetty to follow any other course than that of re.
maining neutral.—(Hear, hear.) His Majesty next •
refers to the discussions that have taken place on the
affairs of Belgium. I think, Sir, these affairs have been at-
tended with difficulty, and are not yet concluded. But from,
the prudence, honesty, and political integrity, with which
they have been conducted,allowing the people their undoubted
right to establish their Government as they think be ,t
calculated for their present and future welfare, a proper
adjustment of the question may speedily be expected.
His Majesty goes on to state that a series of injuries
and insults have been received from Den Miguel, that fre-
quent remonstrancea have been made, which were not at• •
tended to, but that a squadron having appeared before Lisbon,
satisfaction had immediately been given. This, Sir, shows
what firmness will accomplish. Diplomatic relations,
however, with the Portuguese government have not yet
been re-established. His Majesty next refers to the reduc-
tions in taxation which have been evade; and I am happy to
say that the revenue has not been diminished to any
thing like the amount that had been anticipated. This
should encourage Ministers to reduce, so far as they can, the
system of taxation generally. There is one thing which
I cannot overlook, that those who have been relieved
by this reduction are the industrious, the labouring clauses,
—the classes on whom taxation pressed with unusual
hardship. At the same time that there have been these
great reductions, it is very gratifying to find that
the national credit_ is still maintained, with the most
scrupulous fidelity and exactness. This, Sir, is a
principle to which in all my political conduct I trust
I shall ever studiously adhere, the preservation of
the national faith and credit. From all I can collect,
our manufacturers are in a favourable state—per-
haps, their profits are not very peat—but I believe
they are sufficient amply to pay the masters ; and if wages
are not high, they are, I believe, high enough, to enable the
labouring classes generally to live with comfort. The
Hon. Gentlleman then referred to that part of his ilia-
jetty's speech which respected Ireland. He lamented
the very great distress which prevailed in some dis-
tricts; he, however, trusted it was only temporary ; and
hoped that something would speedily be effected to pre-
, vent the recurrence of such evils. Ile concluded with
moving the Address.
Sir JAMES JOHNSTONE rose to second the Address
to his Majesty for his most gracious Speech. He begged
to claim from the House that indulgence which had been
claimed by the Hon. Member who moved the Address, and
which the House was in the habit of extending to Mem •
hers situated as he was, particularly standing as he did, the
representative of the most populous county in the kingdom.
--;Hear, hear.) The first point to which he should al-
lude was to that part of the Speech which referred
to the situation of Ireland, and he thought great credit
attached to the Ministers of the Crown, for their firm and
judicious exercise of those salutary laws already in exist-
ence, without the pain of having recourse to martial law.
The distress in Ireland was a subject of deep regret,
but it had already awakened the sympathy of the
people of England, and he had no doubt that the
House would at an early period adopt measures
that should prevent Ireland in future from suffering
those periodical depredations, which it had for so
many years experienced. In reference to o.her parts
of his Majesty's speech, the Honourab'e Baronet regret-
ted that the appearance of foreign affairs and the out-
rages in atone part of Ireland had not enabled
his Majesty's Ministers to reduce the military establish-
ment of the country, and he observed, with reference to
the state of the revenue, that it was satisfactory to learn,
that notwithstanding the remission of several duties, the

last accounts exhibited an increase of the excise revenue,
He was glad to hear that the accounts from the manufac-
turing districts showed that the condition of the labourer
was improving. With reference to our foreign relations,
he hoped that his Majesty's Ministers would continue
their s) stem of non-intervention in the affairs of other
States, as the best meaus of avoiding the miseries
of war without compromi•ing our dignity or our honour.
—( Hear, hear.) The benefits of such a position had been
clearly exemplified by the manner in which England had
lately enforced certain claims against Portu,sal. Poland also
was waging a just war against the gigantic power of Russia,
but the policy of England forbade us to unsheath the
sword, except in our just rights. The Hon. Baronet then
alluded to that part of the Speech which had reference to
the cause of the dissolution of the late Parliament, and
read the passage:

Having had recourse to that measure for the purpose of as-
certaining the sense of my people on the expediency of a Reform
in the Representation, I have now to recommend that important
question to your earliest and most attentive consideration, confi-
dent that in any measures which you may prepare for its adjust.
ment you will carefully adhere to the acknowledged principles of
the Constitution, by which the prerogatives of the Crown, the
authority of both Houses of Parliament, and the rights and liber.
ties of the people, are equally secured." . _

. ,
These words left to the House the free and unfettered

exercise of votes. On that important subject his Majesty
recommended the attention of the House, and in agreeing
to the address no Hon. Member would be considered as
pledged to any particular plan of Reform—(Hear)—
but he observed that if, previous to the dissolution
of Parliament, any doubt existed with respect to the
current of popular opinion, that doubt must now be re-
moved on referring to the present appearance of the House.
The SPEAKER then put in the Address.
Sir ROBERT PEEL rose. He had waited, he said,
in expectation that some Hon. Member would have pre-
sented himself to express his sentiment on the important
topics adverted to in the Speech from the Throne ; but as
no Hon. Member had manifested a desire to rise, he could
not permit the discussion to close without a few observa-
tions. It was satisfactory to him to be able to concur in
the Address, because it was all times desirable that the
first meeting of the House should be characterized by the
absence of any acrimonious spirit, which might interfere
with the prevaletece bf unanimity. It was especially de-
sirable at the poittnt moment that the House should be
able to convey to the Sovereign the assurance of its sincere
loyalty and respect, unmixed with those differences which
must arise if a material division of opinion should prevail.
Had his Majesty's Ministers not framed the Address so as
to secure universal acquiescence—had they inserted other
topics, or treated those introduced differently—had they
endeavoured to extort from the House a pledge as to the
course it would in future pursue, he was perfectly certain
that they would not have failed to give those who were
likely to oppose them an opportunity of considering the
nature and extent of that pledge. Of late years, when the
present servants of the Crown were out of office, an Ad-
dress had never been moved without reference to the an-
cient usage of communicating a copy of the Speech the
day before it was to be delivered. As Ministers had the
power of remedying the grievance of which they bad so
often complained, they would not have failed in their duty
on the present occasion.—(Cheers.) They had adopted,
as it seemed to him, a much better course, by keeping the
Speech and the Address as secret as possible, and by plainly
avowing, as he trusted they would do, that they meant to
Wedge no individual as to the course it might be ex-
pedient hereafter to adopt.—( Cheers. ) The Speech
from the Throne was, as usual, divided into the two great
branches of foreign policy and internal administration ;
and many masons would induce him not to enter into the
discussion of the former. First, he was not in possession
of the necessary information ; next, in the present state of
the continent it ought to be the object of every man, in
office and out of office, consulting the interests not only
of the country but of hutna:lity, to allow nothing to escape
him which might, even by remote poss'bility, tend to
contravene the object of Government in the maintenance
of peace. A third reason for abstaining was, the absence
—the necessary absence—of the Noble Lord the Secretary
for Foreign Affairs, who was peculiarly responsible, and
ought to be present on any detailed discussion t' matters
connected with foreign policy. It was well, however, for
the House to mark the inconvenience to which it might be
exposed by the necessity of waiting until the Noble Lord
should be returned, when the writ could not be moved
until a fortnight after Parliament had commenced its de-
liberations.—(Hear, hear.) Did not this, of itself, show
the practical advantage of the Crown possessing some
means of procuring the attendance in their places of its
responsible advisers ?—(Cheers.) Debates must be sus-
pended upon foreign policy, until the Noble Lord should be
returned for some populous place, since he would hardly
think of knocking at Schedule A. or Schedule B. of the
Reform Bill for admission.—(Cheers and laughter.) If
the Noble Lord did avail himself of one of the small avenues
to the House still open—if he did knock at Schedule A.
or Schedule B.—if he did present himself as a repre-
s by the
01, i
tatitvewfoould
rsosmilerelsy afford some proof,mallplacetob in the
eabolishfei
tog of the Constitution, of the advantage of preserving
thew- —(Hear, hear, hear.). He knew it would be said,
, that in future all Ministers were to be so popular, that they
would of euurae be returned ; but the deliberations of the

House ought to have reference to times when the present
excitement had passed away, and he wished to provoke no
premature discussion on the merits of the measure,—
(Some laughter and cheers from the Treasury Benches).
What he bad said, he thought had naturally arisen out of I
the absence of the Nable Lord ; hut if he had trespassed,
he would give the best proof that he had done so uninten
tionally, by at once relinquishing the topic.--(anr, hear).
Although he would not enter into any lengthened diseroi-
skm, he might observe, in reference to the foreign relations
of the country, that there were some points on which be
hoped that full information would be given. lie particu-
larly alluded to Portugal and Holland, two countries always
looked upon as essential objects of British policy. It•
rejoiced to learn from the Royal Speech that the great
principle on which Ministers Intended to act, was abstaining
from all interference with Foreign States on merely
domestic matters : nothing but the necessity of preserving
the interests of other countries could justify air infraction
of that principle. There was one point especia:ly con
nee e I with the affairs of Portugal, on which he trusted
satisfactory explanation would hereafter be afforded, not
merely for the sake of the interests of this country, but of
the world ; he alluded to the demands of France—and he felt
assured, that the present Government of that country, which,
had so loudly protested against foreign interposition, would
not itself improperly or unadvisedly set the ciample of inter-
ference with an independent Government on a matter
relating merely to its own domestic affairs. lie could
readily believe, from the previous conduct of Portugal, that
a satisfactory explanation might be given; but the demand
was for the la lease of a French subject, tried before a com-
petent tribunal, and punished by that tribunal ; and fur-
ther, that the Judge by whom he bad been tried should be
dismissed. A case of necessity might be made out, bus
at present it looked lika an interference with a matter
merely of a darnestic kind. The fact that the Govern-
ment of France was strong, and that that of Portugal
was weak and unpopular, did not at all diminish the danger
of the precedent; and be almost hoped that a case of
enormous delinquency might be made out to justify the
proceeding. lie was not aware of any other topic in the
Speech relating to foreign affairs that required notice; and
those relating to domestic policy were such as could not
excite much difference of opinion, with the exception, per-
haps, of the question of Reform in the lepresentation.
Even here lie was bound to state that the Address in reply
to the Speech was worded with so much proper caution
that he did not see how any man could refuse his assent to

it, whatever might be his opinions on Reform, or on the
degree and extent to which it ought to be carried. He '
understood that Ministers did not mean to pledge any
Member as to the course he might be inclined to pursue
when the great subject was introduced on Friday next
He should then be prepared to state and re-state his opi-
nions, and he was not disposed on the present occasion to
anticipate or prejudice the discussion. He joined in the
hope so well expressed by the Hon. Baronet (Sir J.
Johnstone) that the debate would be conducted with that
moderation w hich became a question of such difficulty and
magnitude. At the same time, after the speeches of the
Hon. Members, he (Sir R. Peel) should he compromising
his ow❑ sentiments, and compromising the truth, if he
did not distinctly avow that he could not concur with
them in the approbation they had expressed of the last
dissolution of Parliament. He (lid not mean in the slight-
est degree to question his Majesty's right so to exercise his
prerogative, although some persons deeply read i❑ the
Constitution had entertained doubts upon that point. He
recollected that Lord Holland in the year 1807 had quoted
the opinion of Lord Somers, that it was almost illegal for
the Sovereign to dissolve Parliament during the Session ;
but he (Sir H. Peel) was not disposed to question the
right of the King, either while the Houses were sitting or
at any other period ; neither did he wish to be understood
as questioning the right of the responsible advisees of the
Crown to recommend it to adopt such a course. He could
well believe, with the opinions Ministers tntertained upon
the subject, and feeling that they had not such a mak,' ity
in the House of Commons as would enable them to bring
their measure to a successful issue, that they felt them-
selves justified in appealing to the sense of the people. He
did, however, question both the time and the manner
in which the dissolution took place.—(Cheers.) Nor did
he look upon this as a matter of light concern ; and
foreseeing the times that were approaching, if a
Reformed Parliament were to sit, he felt it incumbent
upon him to avow his opinions however unpopular.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) He might regret that they
were adverse to the sense of the great body of the people,
but no consideration of that or of any other kind should

induce him tamely to acquiesce in a measure which he
thought would be injurious, however small might be the
majority by which he should be supported. Differing from
the great body of the people as their wishes were evinced
at the late general election, he should not less be the true
friend ?f them and of his country if he fairly avowed his
difference, and attempted to justify it. What had been
the consequence of the dissolution at the time when it
took place? Remission of taxes to a considerable amount
hail been actually made without any Legislative authority,
and under the mere responsibility of the department; and
this precedent would not be deemed of light importance,
even by many who had concurred in the propriety of the
dissolution.—(Hear, hear.) Bad pi ecedeuts, although af-
terwards sanctioned by a majority, were at least as dan-
gerous as any other precedents. The duties on several
articles had been relinquished, contrary to the expressed
sentiment of both branches of the Legislature. He alluded
to the imposts upon coals and slates, and he believed also
that the duty upon barilla had been remitted.— (Laughter.)
It might excite a smile, but such he believed was the fact.
In opposition to positive to of Parliament, the several
departments had taken upon themselves to remit the duty,
a circumstance, in his opinion, not lightly to be passed
over. It might be answered that bonds had been taken
for the payment of the duty shou'd not Parliament
sanction its remission, but in the mean time the retail
trade had been carried on as if the repeal had been made
by law, and equity and justice would oppose the for-
feiture of those bongs. He would refer particularly to
the remission of the duty on slate ; and here it was to he
ad bee
notn made
meeiy under
unde ther thea uthroe:
re-
sponsibility of a resolution of the Treasury. The sanction
r
observed, that other articles might thereby be most ma-
terially influenced. Had the dissolution not occurred,
tlitteys,eorfettnbiessioLgis l, have n
n: might
of those resolutions (as we understood the Right Hon.
Baronet) was nit equal in authority to the laws of the
laud, which had imposed the duties.—(Hear hear, hear.)
He hoped, therefore, that some step would be taken at the
instance of his Majesty's Government, to obtain the pro-
per authority for the Acts to which they had resorted, and
to diminish in some degree the danger of the precedent
which was furnished by those acts.—(Hear, hear.) That
danger was not diminished by their being acts of favour.
What security could the public creditor have for the pay-
ment of his dividends, if the Ministers could dispense with
the duties which the Parliament had imposed.—(Hear,
heat.) lie (Sir R. Peel) thought that the remission of
those duties ought not to be lightly passed over, if it had
given rise to no other inconvenience than the bad prece-
Again he would ask, why had the
dent. --(Hear, hear.)
last Parliament been 'dissolved without the renewal ci that
Act by which dangerous associations could be rut down.
(Hear, bear.) He would say nothing as tu whether it
would have been wise not to apply that iaw, had it been
still in force, but he certainly thought it was not wise
to allow it to expire in the state of Ireland at the time
of the dissolution.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that it
was the duty of his Majesty's Government to have ap-
plied for its renewal nefore they dissolved the Parliament.
He had another complaint to make on the subject of that
dissolution. He thought it was incumbent on his Ma-
jesty's Ministers, when one of the subjects under dis-
cussion in Parliament was of no less importance than the
taolithaedpdeitailalndinteraannsquoiflliteyxcoiftitnlgte ctohtemtpryeop(liela
remodelling of the Constitution—it was incumbent on
them, as men looking higher than to mere popularity, looking
ti
I In:a r
of
treat discontent, arising from prevalent distress), to avoid
.)
Ile thought it was consistent neither with public justice
nor with fact to represent to the people that the cause of
the dissolution was that the supplies had been refused by
the House of Commons.—(Cheers.) Now, one of his
Majesty's Ministers had expressly said—the meaning of
his words could not be doubted—that his Majesty would
be justified in dissolving a Parliament which should have
refused a Reform that was demanded by the unanimous
voice of the people.—(Einar, hear.) These were the
words of a Noble Lord opposite. But yet an Hon. Ba-
ronet opposite (Sir J. Graham) said in a letter to his con-
stituents that the motive of his Majesty's Government was
the necessity of dissolving a Parliament which bad re-
fused the supplies.—(Cheers.) If it were the fact that
cl(H:Feemer
ele
tlhioea
the
believed
nothingrtAehsithat
ntl
resolution
tsthtit
yo
Ministerial
aht
such was really the motive by which the Ministers had
R.
81, actuatedoen!evtneiiileteipoonnt rat
contrary,
yne,
s'houecaedevs 4i believeds
oinfgG hise fact
te
to be
eboteyh
net
ehn,asht
medoi(teSiyoi
nr
had.
complainad:
ectnoii
icae Ihe:saotrfol.
i,—:::N(ealontl,tedoaesrft,hedrohatunet
elaid.nr;)bt
determination
nTdßiohut
n
could
. not Thatsay
tflhoen.2l3lasitonoeft Apwhethersvas a question
statement
efnatctN.r—as
correct. If the Parliament didreally •
the supplies,
stop
the dissolution might be •
inst •
ated. But, the mere adjourn-
ment of the consideration f 0 any question whatever was not
sufficient for such a justification. On such grounds no
Parliament had ever before dissolved, He was suite

S ire that the lion. Member for ;Siiddlesea had often moved
the aljournment of important questions and of discussions
upon the supplies on account of the lateness of the hour ;
and he was also sure that the 1100. Gentleman would not
be content that he should be ch urged with an intention, in
so doing, to stop the supplie,. Surely, on the occasion of
General Gascoyneas motion, there was no attempt to dole
the supplies ; and if not, he tviti!d ask, was it consistent
with fairness, was it consistent with the conduct of enligh-
tened Statesmen, to throw out amongst the people' that ad•
ditional cause of excitement.—(Hear.) But he had the
best authority for asserting, that the stopping of the sup-
plies had not entered into the consideration of the Ministers
when the determination was taken that the Patliament
should be diesolved. Ile referred to the letter of the Noble
Lord opposite td his constituents, that they had so resolved
upon the Thursday moenieg.—(l-I.ear, hear.) If the Noble
Lord knelt. oil the Thorsd iy that he Was entitled to make
that communication on that day to hi, 6mstituents, then it
could not be the fact that the tesolufion was come to in 1
consequence of the House of Commons having stopped
the supplies.—(Hear, hear.) Under such circumstances,
he did not think it consistent with the duty of the Minis-
ters to add that cause of eeltaiternent to the question of Re-
form. He was unwilling to allude Ca what had been said
by the Hon. Gentleman who moved the ddress. He
wished to make allowances for the first performance of so
difficult a task. But he could not avoid remarking, that
he thought the Hon. Gentleman hardly had authority to
make the statentent, that a maiotity of '72 gentlemen had
been returned to the pfesent Parliament from the eountie.,
pledged to support the Reform Bill which had been intro-
duced to the last Parliament. If those gentlemen had
really given such pledges, they would, he believed, find
themseites in a very difficult situation, as no such Bitl
would be submitted td that House.—( Hear, and a laugh.)
He perfectly agreed in the recornMendation which they had
received from the Throne, "to adhere carefully," in the
adjustmetit of P.eform, " to the acknowledged pritteiples
of the Constitution, by which the prerogatives of the
Crown, the authority of both Hemet of Parliament, and
the rights and liberties of the people are equally secured."
He thought that those words of his Majesty's Speech implied
a delicate censure upon the other R-form Bill, and a corn-
pliment to that which it wan now the intention of the Mi-
nisters to propose.—( Hear, and laughter.) In his opinion,
that passage conveyed a just rebuke to those Who had for some
time been telling the House of Lords, in no equivocal len-
jgaucatr
a,
ntdh
taituttl:eiyf
they
or
elf(i)lnge
de r
tannayceqi ins ci
ersecteio n
ino
tnh
et the subunani-
mous demands of the people of England, they should be
very soon swept away.—(Hear, hear.) if, therefore, he
rightly understood the words which he had just quoted
from the Speech, they were intended as a censure upon
the former and a correplitnent to the future Reform Bill,
as well as a rebuke to those who held menaces to the
House of Lords. He would further remark, that when
he found in one Speech a portion of a paragraph (and not
the whole easelge) quoted from a former Speech, he
looked upon that portion to be considered as one of parti-
cular importance. He of course viewed the Speech as
the work of his Majesty's Ministers, and he had no right
to complain of any man's plagiarism from himself.—(A
laugh.) In the Speech which his Majesty addressed at
the close of the last Parliament, he (Sir It. reel) read that
his Majesty had been induced to dissolve that Parliament,
" for the purpose of ascertaining the sense of his people in
the way in which it could be most conetitationally ex-
pressed, on the expediency of making such changes in the
representation as circumstances may appear to require, and
which, founded upon the acknowledged principles of the
Constitution, may tend at once to uphold the just rights
and prerogatives of the Crown, and to give security to the
liberties of the people." Now be saw with great satisfac-
tion, that those wards were almost literally copied and in-
troduced into the present Speech, considering them to ap-
ply to the Bill now intended. He hoped that their intro-
duction had not been fortuitous.—( Hear.) Ile hoped,
thererore, that the new Bill would have some important
differences from the one introduced in the last Parliament.
He believed that the result of the appeal which had been
made to the people showed that the opinions of the majo-
rity were at variance (we understood him to say) with
those which he and others entertained upon that question.
But if it seemed to him that the opinions of the majority
of the people upon so important a subject were clouded
with error, it was his duty to endeavour to remove that
error.—( Hear.) When lie and other Members of that
House differed from the opinions of the people, they were
not bound to be the submissive slaves of popular opi-
nions.—(Cheers.) Although he and those gentlemen
might be in the minority, they wet e not, there-
fore, bound to march with the Ministry.—(Cheers.)—
, If their opinions were not popular, they were still bound
to express them.—( Hear, hear.) If on any questions of
great popular interest, too indiscriminate a use were made
of the highest name in the realm, lie feared that it would
' be attempted in that way to compel the House of Corn
mons to defer to the popular opinion, not because it was
wise, but because it was prevalent and enthusiastically ex-
pressed. He spoke thus not in the spirit of faction, nor
as one of a disappointed party ; but lie thought that at a
time of great distress, when the springs of industry were
depressed, it was dangerous to transfer the consequent dis•
content from the true causes.—(Ht ar, bear.) The power
which the Government possessed was intended not fur
their personal advantage, but for the good of the country ;
and he could not think that there was any more danger-
' ous use of it than to make the people think that the Con-
stitution of that House, or any other of the institutions
under which they live, was the cause of the existing dis•
tress —(Hear.) lie certainly knew from the results of
the election, that the present Constitution of that House
was unpopular—(Hear)—but he was not therefore bound
to alter his course; on the contrary, he thought it his
duty to the people from whom he differed, however he
might incur their dislike, to point out to them what he
considered the dangers of any measure. —(Hear.) They
who held unpopular opinions were not on that account the
less faithful servants of the people.—(Hear.)
Lord ALTHORP (who was for some time inaudible,
' from the lowness of his tone and the noise of Members
leaving the House) was understood to appeal to the Right
Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, anti who had
concurred in the prudence of avoiding to introduce any
topic, on the first day of the Session, which might lead to
a difference of opinion on the Address in reply to the
speech of his Majesty, whether, in that speech, they (the
(H Mini)
a srt.e)r s
In ha d
answering not
mendeavouredtainenei.to
Right
avoid
Hon. such
Gentleman, top ic s—
he
had no intention to argue with hi I.:nr
ott(hd, eicsapointsdiscuss
those
sffeet:rsheuinebtjh,ee
subjects
oftiB
nhpaiiinrinenfe rrree,dp,eci
tni
nsgu cthh
ea Address.
on that occasion would be inconvenient to the House and
detrimental to the country.—(Hear.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman had salt; that the absence of his (Lord
Althorp's) Noble Friend, taat evening, was inconvenient.
But the Right Hon. Gentleman must know that every
Member ci his Majesty's Government held himself re-
sponsible for the conduct of the foreign affairs of the country,
and that the absence of his Noble Friend could therefore
not prevent the Right Hon. Gentleman from receiving an
answer to any question which he might have asked.—
(Hear.) Ile crud not think that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man bad stopped short in his speech without sonic other
reasons for the interruption. He was happy to hear the
Right Hun. Gentleman express his approval of the prin-
ciple of non-interference. He thought that the best pos-
sible rule for every country, according to strict justice and
sound policy, was not to interfere in the affairs of another,
unless in such cases as that of a neighbouring or an allied
State being threatened with invasion. In the answer to time
speech of his Majesty, care had been taken to abstain from
the introduction of anything which could be supposed
to pledge gentlemen as to their future conduct on the
subject of the Reform Bill. As the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had appealed to the Ministers, he (Lord Althorp)
had much satisfaction in saying, that acquiescence in the
Address would not pledge Hon. Gentlemen on that ques-
tion.—(Bear, bear.) That Right Hon. Gentleman had
alluded to the advice given to his Majesty by his Ministers
on the subject of the dissolution. He had admitted, as
indeed it could not be doubted, that his Majesty had the
right to dissolve Parliament ; and also that the Ministers,
being pledged to carry the measure of Reform, were justi-
fied in advising his Majesty to exercise that right.—
(Hear.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman objected to the
time and circumstances in which that advice was given.
'The first ground on which be rested that objection was
connected with the remission of taxes, as the Right Hon.
Gentleman says, without the authority of Parliament; that
the Right Hon. Gentleman recollected himself and ad-
mitted that after sea-borne coals had been permitted with
out payment of the former duty, it would, under the cir-
cumstances, have been impossible for Parliament to refuse
its approval to the permission. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man must see that it had been practically determined upon
by Parliament that the duty should be reduced. For,
though an Act had not formally been passed, yet a Com-
mittee had voted in favour of the reduction, and that re-
solution had been reported to the House.—(Hear, bear.)
There could, therefore, be no doubt, that the duty would
be remitted, and it might thence be considered as prac-
tically, though not in form, remitted.—( Hear, bear.)
The next point to which be should turn was the complaint
respecting the Proclamation Act in Ireland, which, it
was
.said, ought to have been renewed before the dis-
solution. They (the Ministers) knew that they incurred
a grave responsibility. But they thought that they could
dispeme with that law.—(Hear, hear)...and the result

had, since the dissolution, proved that they Were ris
(Cheers.) Next it was complained that the d's lution
had been attributed to a refusal of the supaliee Now,
they should first consider whether the stipples were really
refused or not.—(Hear, hear.) It was said that to move
arenfuasdijnogurtahme en
sutpaptlleisiLe
(oH'cleoaerk)_eobutlldt rtihotatbeit
was an
oonrdais_
tnlieirinyasnetsee,tindeßrutwhheatwocuirledupninsttaint
eteostwheasßthigahtt adjournmentHon.Gen-
moved? Was not the effect of that motion to go into dis-
cussion of a new measure of Reform, at that hour, so as
to gire rise to speech after speech, with no other object
debate firs
than to put a
of thevotefootm respectingri,thes theupplies(o representationHrdo
?—(Cheers.)
Gentle.
Althorp) Aorp)
Theof the town of Liverpool.—(Hear- )
A
man, then sitting opposites asked him
whether, after the results of the motion of General Gas-
coyne, it was tiie intention of his Majesty's Government
to persevere with the Reform Bill; to which he answered
they would not.—(Hear.) He then ashes!, would the
Parliament be dissolved, and that question he declined to
answer.—(Cheers.) But did not the House well
know what was his intention?—(Cheers.) He was
not then going to assert that the adjournment was the
cause of the dissolution—(Cheers)—but he would say
that the way in which that adjournment was referred
to, in connection with the dissolution, was this—that the
success of the motion proved, that with the late House of
Commons, the Ministers could not go on.—(Cheers.) If
that motion was nut the cause of the dissolution, it was its
justification. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir R. Feel)
said that the Speech had been cautiously worded, so as to
avoid pledging gentlemen to support the Bill of last Ses-
sion, and that its language placed the gentlemen who were
pledged to that Bill in an awkward situation. But they
(the Ministers) did assert that the Bill which they pro-
posed last Session was such a measure as the Speech re-
comme.ndei. He would assert that there was nothing in
the wording of the Speech which could justify the decla-
ration of the Right Hou. Gentleman, that a Bill on differ-
ent principles must be proposed.—(Great cheering and
some laughter.) The Right Hon Gentleman had gone
into a very ingenious verbal criticism of the language of
the Speeches of this Session and the last; but if he would
consider the words better, he would find that the coinci-
dence to which he had adverted was not so very impor-
tant.—(Hear, hear.) As to what had been said of the
enthusiasm of the people, he (Lord Althorp) would be the
last man in the country to refuse credit to the Right Hon.
Gentleman for honesty of purpose and fidelity to his ditty,
even when, as he had said, he had not the good fortune to
be agreed with by a majority of his fellow-countrymen.—
(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that if,
at any future time, in a season of distress and discontent,
any attach should be made upon the institutions of the
country, it would be popular after this precedent. But
surely it was not that gentleman's opinion that the people
of England entertained such feelings towards the institutions
Of the country.—(Cheers.) There Was every proof that
they were attached to those institutions—(Cheers)—but he
should not therefore be surprised, if they should see room for
improvement..—(Hear)--and when the improvements pro-
posed to them were favourably received, it was not to be
inferred that propositions to overturn those institutions
would be received with equal favour,—(Cheers.) It was
not in the power of the Government to raise the strong
feeling of the people on the question of Reform ; but whets
the appeal made to them gave them the opportunity of ex-
pressing the feeling, they did so with enthusiasm.—
(Cheers). He would not further detain the House, as
there was no question upon which they would be called
upon to vote.—(Hear).
Lord MAHON thought that the conduct of the present
Ministers on the dissolution of Parliament, and on every
other occasion, more resembled that of candidates vestal
the hustings than of prudent Statesmen. They had err-
tired upon office with promises of reduction amongst
others, but the only reduction which they had perseveringly
proposed was that of the number of the English repre-
sentatives, which, under all the circures'ances, he would
call a red:cetio ad absurdum. He thought it a strange
proof of the unanimity of the Cabinet, that the two Mi-
nisters should have given such opposite accounts of the
c iuse of the dissolution ; and now, when they were pressed
to explanation, they admitted that what they called the
stopping of the supplies was not the cause nor the justi-
fication of their proceeding, though it might be hound
sufficient to justify them. (The noise in the House frequently
rendered the Noble Lord inaudible.) Notwithstanding alt
_ _

that had bee❑ said respecting the last Parliament, he
would say that there never was a legislative assembly
equal to the late House of Commons in public spirit, iu
wisdom, in talents, and in honesty. He expressed his re-
gret, that whilst he missed from the present House of
Commons such gentlemen as Sir R. Vyvyan, Sir Thomas
Acland, and Mr. Bankts, the late Member for Dorset, he
did not see others who could supply their places. The suc-
cessor of the last-mentioned gentleman was one who now
supported that measure of Ram m which he had denounced
as revolution.—( Hear.) An appeal bad been Blade to the
people, but it was not the appeal from Philip drunk to
Philip sober, but from Philip sober to Philip drunk.—
(Hear.) It was said that the people were satisfied with
the Bill, but he denied the assertion. The apparent
unanimity was occasioned, in one class, by an unnatural
c talition between those who were led on by an unlimited
de!erence to the supposed will of the Crown, and those
who in their speeches and writings, and in all their pub-
lications, treated the Crown with little ceremony. Thera
was another class desirous of improvement, and believing
it to be necessary, who looked upon the present measure

as too violent, but yet consider the Reformers too strong
to be resisted, and who, therefore, look upon this measure
as better than no Reform. There was a third class, equally
consisting of those, be they numerous or few, who con-
template plans not consistent with the monarchical institu-
tions of the country.—(Hear, hear.) The Ministers had
not gained to their banners the avowed enemies of the
C institution.—(Hear, hear.) The radicals were nut
satisfied.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Middle-
sex could not have satisfied the friends of the ballot and
universal suffrage, had he said that the Bill would super-
sede the ballot, and render universal suffrage unnecessary ;
but be cbtained their acquiescence in the measure when he
said that it would open the way to those objects. He
(Lord M ikon) did not pretend to be in the confidence of
the radicals.—(A laugh.) He held no seat in their un-
holy Sanhedrin.—(A laugh.) But they spoke loudly for
the apprehension even of the uninitiated. They said they
only looked upon this measure as a good step to others
which they desired more. It was of course not to be
denied, that the measure of Reform had been declared for
by the people at large ; but it was to be remembered, that
the project had never been presented to them in its true
colours, and, even had it been so, there was no time fur
them to reflect upon tha qualities or merits, or rather de-
merits, of the measure. It only, then, remained for him
to thank the House for the indulgence which had been
extended to him, and to add, that the statement of the
Noble Lord, so far from explaining to his satisfaction the
difficult e+ of which the House desired an explanation,
only left them involved in greater obscurity.
Mr. HUME said, that although the Noble Lord had
taken upon himself to define the class to which lie (Mr.:
H.) belonged, it risight turn out that the definition was
not altogether the most perfect of which the case admitted ;
at all events he (Mr. H.) would at some future time take
an opportunity of himself defining the class to which he
did really belong. Passing, however, to the matters more
immediately under their consideration, be would appeal to
the House whether the speech of the Right Hon. Batonet
below him, and the speech of the Noble Lord who
had just sat down, were such as deserved serious considera-
tion, or called for any very lengthened reply ? The speeches
to which he referred were made up of complaints that the
King should have ventured to appeal to his people, never
being able to deny that at the very moment when that
appeal was made the Commons House of Parliament was
most equally divided upon the identical question which
gave occasion for that appeal. He confessed that he thought
such a complaint exceedingly unfair, coming, as it did front
lion. Members who in the last Parliament defied his Ma-
jesty's Ministers to adopt diet course for having pursued
which was now made matter of the loudest and most bittern
complaint. Ministers appealed to the people, having been
laced to do so ; but did any one of the Hon. Members who
had so dared therm go to any place where the election was
popular, and, ascending the hustings with the Bill in his
hand, make a merit of opposing that Bill ?—(Hear, hear,
hear.) Something; of the sort might have been done
at Cambridge ; but had it been done in Oxfordshire;
who did ;t in Dorsetsbire ? had it been done in any one
popular borough ? [An Hon. Member near Mr. H. made
some observation, which was not audible.] Yes, perhaps
there might have been something of the sort, but it was
to be recollected„ that one swallow made no summer—a
rare instance miglit, perhaps, be found, but the principle
was still the same, the general sense of the people was
favourable to Reform; that was a position which no man
in his senses would attempt to gainsay. Such having
turned out to be the case, he could not but admire the
candour of the Right Hon. Baronet below him, who had
so frankly avowed, that in the result of the elections he
was mistaken ; and being so, why did that flight Hun.
dheard ?
Baronet utter the complaints which the Hips
r
Did be de-
, Why complain of that "Peal otcl the
Phe"
sire any thing but the truck desire that that
house should represent any thingj )but the true sentiments
he
of the people? No man could be more anxious than he
(me. H.) MR 19 see the atvituat 91 ilvf9ll3, if pchtiblr,

*el 16tisout a dissolution of Parliament ; but when
Ise !hard it asserted, as it was in the former Parliament,
*lett a faction only gave their support to the measure, and
aelieti he saw that the really factious were those 'who op-
posed it, he felt that the moment had arrived when justice
could not be done to the people without an appeal to the
peop'e themselves; and what had been the result? a ma-
jority, of nine to cue had, throughout the country, declared
for it ; aye, he would go the length of eat,ing 20 to
(A laugh)_he meant of 20 to 1 ; yes, five per atilt. of
the whole population could not be polled against it,—he
meant of course of the laity. In such a state of things'
:then he must he allowed to say, that it was waste of time
to occupy the attention a the House with Complaints
against the Ministers for calling upon she people to exer-
ci.e their undoubted privilege. The whole country, at
least that portion possessing the elective franchise, had
been polled, and now the world had seen the teeth. As
matters stood in the month of April last, his Majesty's
Ministers had no alternative ; they could not go on, night
,after night, lowering the dignity of Parliament, as the
House was then disposed to compel them to do; and mtrah
as Parliament had, of late, down to lower its own dignity,
tlaeoe was no one course of eonduct mere calculated to
effect that object than was the conduct pursued by them
in reference to the subject of Parliamentary Refs-tire-
-Hon. Members who had spoken in the course or this de-
bate seemed to charge the supporters of Reform with being
the enemies of the Monarchy. If by that they meant to
convey any imputation upon any Member of that House,
let thorn name those to whom they alluded ; if they
merely spoke of persons out of doors, let them say so at
Uwe, and relieve Members of that House from an accosa-
tion, to which, he sincerely believed, no one of them was
justly open. He avowed that he was a Radical Reformer.
He was not one of those bit-by-bit Reformers, who would
be content to throw away a favourable opportunity for oh- I
tinting much, for the sake of some paltry and patty con-
cession being at the moment ensured. No; he had, year
alter year, been lamenting the lavish expenditure of the
country, and the degree in which it pressed upon the
energies of the country, and dried up the springs of in-
dustry—it was, therefore, that he urged a chat:gas—it was,
therefore, that he had ever been a Radical Reformer, and
so would continue ; and lie hesitated not to affirm, that
without some such as the Bill proposed to effect, the
business of the country could not go on ; and such, he felt
assured, was the universal feeling of the people, for let
any candidate go forth into this metropolis or that county
and canvass the opinions of the electors, he would find '
that the far greater majority—nay, he would say, an over
whelming majority, us oulti rather have the Bill, the whole
Bill, and nothing but the Bill, than go without any mea-
sure of Reform at all, as the opposers tof the Bill in trutk
designed to let them. There was, certainly, no knowing
but that the people might have been contented with a very
small measure of Reform indeed, if the last Ministry had
been prepared to make any concession—(Cheers)—but no
concession would they make ; and in spite of all the
adeice t hat had been given to the contrary, on they went
in the same course utterly indifferent to the signs of the
times at a moment when the whole world was in motion.
When everything warned them toy ield, they declared that
they would not yield a single jot. He declared he could
not understand bow the good sense of the Honourable
Baronet should have lain asleep for so long a period.
He professed himself unable to account for such mental
blunders, except by supposing that the Hon. Baronet
had allowed himself to be influenced by patty feeling, and
bad forgotten those great and leading interests which
should alone govern the conduct of a British Minister.
It was nothing but party feeling which could have induced
the Right Hon. Baronet and his friends, the Members for
Harwich, to abandon principles which they had long and
warmly advocated, and support that which they had long
opposed, merely to obtain the petty object of leaving an
adverse Ministry in a tninority.—(Cheers.) He alluded
to the proposition, the object of which was to remove the
duties upon timber. When things hid been brought to
that pass, he had no hesitation in saying that there could
not be an act of greater wisdom on the p irt of the Sove-
reign, or one of greater decision on the part of Ministers,
than the one to dissolve the Parliament, and the other to
advise that important step. No doubt the party who dared
the Ministers to dissolve, were defeated, end finding them-
selves now in a minority, were very tore upon the subject.
If they were as well accoeaomed to being beaten as he was,
they would bear their drubbing with better humour.—(A
laugh.) Once ;note be would say that complaints were
useless. The trial had been made, and the Reformers
were successful ; and it ill became their opponents now
to complain that the light of truth and the force of the
'test influence of the people had hcenlet in Upon them. He
hoped that no credit would be given to the assertion that a
new Bill, or a different Bill, was to Ix: introduced. He would
not believe such a statement. No doubt Ministers would
show their wisdom in attending to any suggestion res-
pecting the details of the measure which did not affect its
fundamental principles; but he hoped, and did expect, that
the measure of Reform would be carried through both
Houses, and receive the Royal Assent, without any alter-
ation, excepting in such details as might be faulty, or by
the introduction of such minor improvements as would
not be inconsistent with the scope and spirit of the whole
measure. Much complaint had been made of the alleged
rise of the King's name in reference to the Reform Bill.—
It required but a slight effort of memory to call to mind
the occasions without number in which the cry of " Church
amid King" had been raised by the Hon. and Right Hon.
Gentlemen below him, and yet now they were the first to
cry out against a use of the King's name. The present
Ministers had not-used it one-tentl: part so often as their
predecessors. As to the conduct of the Monarch, it was
above all praise ; be had evinced the most paternal anxiety
to promote the interests of his people, and to meet their
wishes in every respect, and, in fact, he bad proved himself
better acquainted with their real wishes and sentiments
than many of those who would fain be Isis advisers. It
was said of him, and those who thought with him, that
they were enemies of the Monarchy; but the fact was,
that they only desired to see the Constitution brought back
to its original principles. Finally he had but to say that
he sincerely thanked the Government for the Bill they had
introduced, and he the more thanked them when he
remembered the manner in which they had appealed to
the country for the support of that Bill.
'Mr. ATTWOOD, adverting to the resolution of that
House in the last Parliament on the subject of the slate
and coal duties, contended that that resolution could not
have the effect of an Act of Parliament, and that, with an
important tax in that condition, Ministers in breathless
haste thought proper to advise the Sovere'gn to dissolve
the Parliament, for they knew that they would not retain
their power fur one fortnight longer, without having re-
course to that step. Ile did not question the undoubted
prerogative of the Crown to dissolve the Parlianaent ; but
he must be allowed to observe, that it was a prerogative,
the exercise of which had at all times been viewed with
the utmost jealousy—and that Ministers in advising its ex-
ercise incurred a deep and serious responsibility, and were
answerable for all the evils arising from it.
. . _ _ _

An Hon. Mtmamt, whom we understood to he Mr.
Trevor, deplored that a measure of such extensive opera-
tion should have been introduced—not that he was against
all Reform, but that he wished rather to see a Reform more
in conformity with what he conceived to be the true prin-
ciples of the Constitution. There could be no doubt that
a re-action would take place, and that eventually there
would be such a modification of the measure as would, he
hoped, insure the preservation of the Constitution.
Mr. TRANT contended that the conduct of Ministers
was unprecedented, unconstitutional, and mischievous.
There never was an occasion which more urgently called
for calm deliberation than the present, and there never was
an occasion in which they were less likely to enjoy that
advantage. Before he sat down he would caution the
Government to beware how they again called forth such
excitement as prevailed at that moment, for the time
might soon come when they would desire to allay it, and
be unable.

'Mr. HUNT observed, that the Speech from the Throne
naturally divided itself into two parts—that which related
..._out,.ucr, foreign and that which took notice of our domestic
"...• The better judgment of every man would be
afrg,,a7taiwvaeiru,• but if he were to indulge passion, he would
half what he possessed rather than see the
It'hoeleapudbell:royppead by the Russians. It bad been stated in
that 200,000 stand of arms
or-
dered Birmiprierharn for the use of the Russianwse;retha
the manufacturers were unable to meet the order, but that
Government accommodated them and their employers
with a supply from the T
whether that fact were so? He wished to know
He could not believe them
guilty of such a departure from the liberal principles they
professed. He now had
Twenty
aq,ueensttyioinnntoa put on the subject
of our domestic policy.
sacrificed during the late unhappydistunrbbeinga had been
Memberb.a ofabne disturbances
e Wales,e
and he wished to learn from some
anse on foot
dt merit whether or not such an inquiry
as might be expected to lead to the discovery
ment of the parties offending in that case? He trup,,ureTt
answer to this last question, one of the Cabinet Ministers
waled rise and assure the House that the fullest iiquiry
was about to take place. He begged to assure the Noble
Lord (Mahow), that be (Mr. Hunt) was, as well as the
Hon. Member for Middlesex, a radical both in principle and
in practice, and as such he should always, both in and out
of the House, speak his sentiments. He could assure the
House that he had very lately received an expression of the
public opinion-.:410t, however, for:anything that be him-

awl( has laid, bat for what he had heen misrepresented
to have said, both by Members of that House and by
the public Press of the country. He bad been called an
terretny to the Reform Bill.; but the fact was, that be had
voted for that 13111; but then it was said that he had spoken ~
against it, 'to Which his answer was, that he had hot
'spoken tegitiatst that part for which he had trotea. He was
'far Reform, and would vote for that Measure which went
%reheat, whether inn-ode-eel by Whig or Tory. If, there-
fore, he shoeld hot vote for the Bill proposed by the Mi-
nisters', he hoped that it would not be put through the
Saiuntry that he had been the means of the MI being lost,
for now fortunately the GovernMent bad a sufficiently
large majority without lain. Vac, therefore, begged 'thus
early to state, taat when they came in the 'Committee. to
the elatuie tallith proposed to give 'the right of voting to
the holders of 10/. houses, he shoeld move, as an amend-
talent that the privilegea should be so extended as to make
it a general heueelsold suffrage.
Mr. LAMB, in reply to the questicsaa lint by the Hon
Member for Preston, begged 'SO state, that with regard to
the purchase of arm in 'this country by the Russians, the
Government latiew nothing about it ; but with respect to
the etereinent about the arms at the Tower, ite sire]) thing
had taken place.—( Hear, hear.) With tegaid to the
question relating to the persoiss who bad beets tio unfor-
tunately slain et Merthyr Tydvia he could assure the
House, an the part of the Government, that sorry as
they were to have to give an explanation on so neeuaii-
fil a subjects they would have been still More sorry if
they bed not had an opportunity of affording that expla-
nation, as silence on tha question might have cast
appearance of meta on the Government which it
by no means; deserved. He should think that every
lion. eantleman must, from the atateitteill that had ap-
reared in the newspapers, be eatisfied that it was impos-
sible to avoid the catesttVlie that had so unfortunately
taken place. The Tact was, that the firing which had ne-
casioned the fatal event had not taken place till it Was ab-
schtsety necessary for the safety of the troops and the
magistracy in the town. ' Whatever the first origin of the
discontent might have been, the rioters had at that period
come into the town with the intention of plutelerlaaa and
that intention they bad carried into execntion to a great
! extent, and had at last made toditact attack on the troops
in the street, while tatro at the windows did not fire till
thirty stand of at .s had been taken away from the teoraaa
in the stmt. With regard to there being lab .a:hirener's
Inquest, that circumstance arose faun the commander of
the troops finding it impnesibre to hold possession of the
town. He 114 therefore, retreated, and left the place in
the possession of the rioters ; the bodies were theta alit in a 1
stable Ireland the inn, and were substquentlyaarried away
by their relatives before six o'elosak and buried, though it
I was not known where in many instances. It was, there-
I fore, impossible 11...,r the Ceroner to hold his inquest home-'
I diately; bat it was necessary to add, that instructions had
been sent down to hold such inquiry se catildaie effected; and
the coosequence was, that cti inquest hat been held, and
that others were going en. It also ought to be remembered
that the vertlaat returned on that inquest which had ter-
minated was justifiable homicide.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. SADLER said that if it wan :quilted of the
House to set about the inquiry Why there was distress in
Ireland, it would he endertalcing an investigation which
had been well ascertained long ago. It had been shown
over and over again that it arose from the unnatural deser-
tion of those who should be the main support of the poor.
A Roman Catholic prelate had done him the lionottr to
address a letter to him the other day, in which he stated
that nineteen in every twenty of the licit proprietors of
Ireland were ab,entees. This Was a grevious complaint,
and had existed ever since Ireland had belonged to England ;
and unless steps were speedily taken to counteract the egects
that this produced, they must prepare theineelves to meet
the inevitable result which would follow. His Majesty's
Speech, in alluding to the disturbances which had taken
place, said that they were unconnected with political
causes ; then if they were not political disturbances, thee
must arise from those circumstances that Blackstone called
a fatal rule and policy, which, if Cot remedied, would
prove equally fatal in their consequences. It was a well
known fact, that the resources of Ireland had increased
during the last century in a larger proportion than those
of any other country ; but if that increase had not been
the means of giving relief to the sufferings of the people, of
what advantage was it to the country. He had always
been an advocate for a system of Poor Laws in that
country; and should take the first opportunity of sub-
' mitting to the House a plan for the legal support of the
Pone of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SHELL said, that as the Speech from the Throne
had adverted to Ireland, it could not be deemed irrelevant,
on his part, to call the attention of the House to it.—
Although Reform engrossed the public mind, still the
connection of Ireland e ith Reform, independent of other
considerations, roust warrant an Irish Member in calling
the present condition, and the likelihoods connected with
the future state of Ireland, to their notice. Together with
Reform, a series of salutary measures ought to be intro-
duced, which would relieve the real grievances of the
country, and show the Irish people that their solicitude
for the repeal of the Union was unreasonahle. There
could be no doubt that the question of the repeal of the
Union was every day becoming more fatmidable. The dis-
cussion of the Catholic question, and the manner in
which it was of necessity carried, prepared the public
mind for the reception of another question still more na-
tional, and calculated to excite the popular passions.—
The great influence acquired by one distinguished indivi-
dual was combined to assist and call out the instincts of
nationality, which had become peculiarly excited by the
former struggle. What, then, del it behove Govern-
ment to do? They should counteract the numerous cir-
cumstances, which were their antagonists, by measures
of substantial benefit. Ile then adverted to the ne-
cessity of making a provision for the poor, and recom-
mended an absentee-tax, as calculated at once to re-
lieve the distresses and satisfy the feelings of the
people. He called the attention of this House to the
necessity of conciliating the Catholic clergy; but de-
ptecated any motion of linking them by a pecuniary,
or what he would consider an ignominious tie. By en-
' trusting them with the education of the people, by yielding
to their complaints against the spirit of proselytism, and by
increasing the funds granted for educating, and placing
them more or: leas under the controul of the Catholic Hie-
rarchy, a fair, a legitimate influence, founded upon recipro-
cal confidence, would lie obtained. He was well aware
that much of what he had suggested might be deemed irre-
levant, but he thought it his duty, as an Irish Member, not
to permit the concerns of that country. which was every
day rising in importance, to pass without a particular no-
tice. Let the Government, adhering to the wise and lofty
principles by which their policy had been in other respects
directed, engage in the noble enterpri'e of giving comple-
tion and perfection to the great work of national pacifica-
tion, without which they had been told by its advocates
that nothing could be effected for Ireland, but with which
alone they were also told that all could not be accom-
plished; and remembering that they were to consult the
real interests of a nation, and not the narrow views of a
faction, let the Statesmen, to whom the destinies of this
great empire were confided, not content themselves with
fastening the countries by mere statutory bonds, or the
mere ligatures of law, but blend them by gradually diffusing
the consciousness that both were in the enjoyment of the
same privileges, the same benefits, and the same constitu-
tional freedom ; and thus by the wisest, as well as the most
exalted means, lay the basis of their perpetual happiness in
their inseparable connexion.
Mr. GEORGE DAWSON should not have risen but
for what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Middlesex,
and the extraordinary unwillingness which was evinced by
the Members of the Government to rise in their places.
He wished to call the attention of the House to the cir-
cumstauces which had attended the dissolution of the last
Parliament. A question was put to the Noble Lord(Althorp)
by Sir R. Vyvyan, a Member of the then Parliament, at
five o'clock in the evening, to ascertain whether it was the
intention of the Government to dissolve the Parliament,
or to go on with the Reform Bill. The Noble Lord had
stated on the present evening, that he answered one of those
questions—that relative to the Reform Bill ; but that with
respect to the other he had given an evasive answer,which
he (Mr. Dawson) must confess had nut conveyed to his
mind the impression which the Noble Lord said it had
been intend to convey, viz., that it was the intention of
the Government to dissolve Parliament —( Hear, hear.)
However, he now had the right to assume that it was the
intention of the Government, at five o'clock on that day,
immediately to dissolve Parliament. Now let the
House remember what took place afterwards. The
debate on the question of the Liverpool election lasted
till half-past one ; and at that hour the adjourn-
ment of the House was moved, and the Noble Lord
and his colleagues bad thereupon stated that the sup-
plies of the night were refused, or at least delayed.
He (Mr. George Dawson) begged, however, of the House
to remember that the Noble Lord's impression of dissolu-
tion was intended to be conveyed at five o'clock, and that
theot.
taltouwseasotfhLe orredfsu,nilt
07 a at
he:
the adjournment did not-take place till half-past one. In
Government to dissolve the Parliame t—(Ch
peedsubptiptlitioehnse
tt:LtaaottrdindCuliceandce Chancellor
he (Mr. Dawson), therefore, thought la it eers)—and
twhasei‘nioitninow
too much to express an
should rise and explain all these contradictory circuity
stances.—(Cheers.) The dissolution, however, did take
place ; and, in consequence, many gentlemen thought

proper to, address the electors of different parts of the
country. Among others, 'the Right Hon. baronet (Sir J.
Graham) bad addresSed tht electors of Cumberland in a
hand-bill, in t7hich he had made use of the following ex-
The last division, which had the effect of
delaying the supplies"—(Cheers from the Opposition, an-
swered by long-continued cheering from, th'e
benches.) I doubt moch,, cons etted the sight Hon. Gen-
tleman, whether the luta Hon. Baronet will cheer when
heats tlle thole "of the sentence.—'(Cheers:) " Ths
last division, which bad the effect of delayin tbt supPlie
left no alte'rnatiVe"—(Cheers reuttVed from the Ministerial
benches)—" left ho alternative"--4renewed and vehement
cheering ) Gentlemen have cheered that quite enough
—(A laugh, and cheering continued)—" left no alter-
native"—(Laughter and cheers.) Gentlemen mistake if
they think ttey can get rid of the sentence in this manner
" lert no alternative but that of abandoning the Bill, and
appealing to the sense of the people,”---(Loild and long-
continued cheering from the Ministerial tide of the Hou.e,
during which the Right Holt: Gehtleinan made title or
two further bbserv&tiotfs., which did not reach the gal-
lery, ut sere marked renewed cheering from the same
side of the House.) From this, then, it *neared that
the last division which took place, at one in the, morning)
left no alternative but that of al andoning the Bill, which,
according to the Noble Lord, was abandoned at five o'clock
in the iliternoon.—(Loud cheers.) The hand-bill he had
read to the House bore the signature of the Right Hon.
Baronet. If it was not his /—no
productiott-'—; P- laugh )—.no
one would receive .tech A contradiction with more plea-
sure than he aimuld ; but if no such contradiction was
altered, the Opposition side of the House had no right to
be taunted with having brought on the dissobk.tion; by
refusing the supplies.—(Hear, hear.) Ile would venture
to say, that there '.'.7zt9 hot a man who had voted in that
divitiet of which he had spoken who had contemplated
that, by so doing, he should be postponing the supplies:
If a postponement of the supplies called for a dissolution
of Parliament, the Hoe. Member for Middlesex would
have been the cause of thirty or forty dissolutions, for at
tatt so often had he been the cause of postponing
the supplies.—(Hear, hear.) Such a thought-, hew-
ever, was too ridiculous to he I,.iltertained for a
single minute, zed., ill fact, it had only been made
use of Ft& a paltry election purpose.—(Hear, hear.)
the consequence of the sudden dissolution was, that no
Act of Approbation had been passed ' • and with respect. tb the
Ordnance Estimates, none of them had teen vAed ; the Govern-
ment, therefore, was in an awirli-Aid situation, for if they had
gpne on paying t!4.i di nance expences, they must come to that
House fel' toln Act of Indemnity; or if they had funds to meet
the eXpenditure, either from the sale of stores, or from a residue
of last year's votes, the absurdity of the clamour raised about the
public service having suffered from the postponement of the
votes was aggravated in a ten.fold degrOz: They had heard a
great deal about thejriumphatft result of the elections, and the
majority Whitt% the Ministry had in that House. He could only
tat', that Wherever he had exercised any franchise, he had found
himself met by the most unfair, perverted, and im-
proper influence on the part of the Government—(Cheers.)
He was very glad to hear that some temporary relief hod tiben
afforded to Ireland; but he believed that If at all by the
Government, it must j,ave been bit very lately; for he had re-
cently heard M-ember of the Committee in this town, that
witlifq a Rw days no relief had been afforded; but that, on the
tiiiitrary, the Governnient had exhibited a great indifference,
apathy, and even coldness to the distresses of Ireland. He un-
derstood this to be the fact, even after it had been stated to the
Government that 140,000 people were without subsistence, and
that many of them had actually died of starvation. Indeed, he
had been informed that when a deputation had ftirbediti way into
the office of the timid fiocretary, the first question put by him
was, Is there any distress hi lteland t" If that was not true,
the sooner it was answered the better; for the report of it had
spread fai and wide, and had already made an alarming impres-
'sibil upon the people of Ireland, and a still more alarming impres-
sion it would make if not contradicted.---(Hear.) The distress
was urgent and immediate, and it ought to have awakened in the
breasts of the Ministry more feeling than was evinced in the ex-
pression put by them into his Maksty's Speech.—(Hear.)

Sir J. GRAHAM said, the Right Hon. Gentleman had said
soreethillg in a tone of personality which it seemed the House
desired should be laid aside, and bad brought forward certain
charges against him. He had at first doubted whether these
charges were personal, for he felt that if they were, that was npt
the place for him to call for an explanation of therli.—(" Oh:'
and hear, hear.) The Noble Lurti who cheered so loudly, and
who, on a former occasion, had produced from his pocket a
volume of Shakspeare, to show what crows would do in a Reformed
Parliament, himself exhibited, even in an unreformed Parlia-
ment, something of the kind ; and when he talked of crows, lie
should recollect that there were daws, who would peck at a cha-
racter which they attempted to soil, but which they could not.
destroy.---r Loud and continued cheering). Another Hon. Mem-
ber, by hii reductions ad tebsurdant, by his insinuations about
paltry, insignificant nisi:elves, had thrown a few random shots,
which passed by those against whom they were aimed, but might
reflect on himself. Even when thus attacked, he (Sir J. Si) had
been unwilling to enter on his defence ; but when the Right
Hen. Gentleman, with whom from his earliest youth lie had
been on terms of friendship---when he thought that the cha-
racter thus attacked suffered something !Yam the imputation
cast on it, he (Sir J. G.) could fibt hesitate longer to obey the
call, not in deference to him, but in deference to his (Sir J. G.'s)
own character, and in deference to the House, for which he
generally entertained a deep respect..--(Hear, hear, hear.) He
had had other reasons besides those now mentioned for.
abstaining from defending himself on this occasion.—
He had not an accurate recollection of the words of
the Address which had been read. The Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite had the advantage of him, by coming down with the
words of the Address itself; without giving him notice—(Hear)
ss-a document Which, since the time when it was published, he
had neither seen nor thought of. He thought, when the sub.
ject was first mentioned, that he had not used the word "re-
fuse" with respect to supplies, nor that he had said any thing
about stopping the supplies. The Right Hon. Relation of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, who first alluded to the subject, had
done him justice by reading the words of the Address, from
which it appeared that the word " stopping or refusing the sup-
plies" had been in the Address, but that he stated that a certain
motion, on being carried, had had the effect of " delaying" the
supplies.—(Hear, hear.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman had
been vastly circumstantial with respect to dates, and out of re-
spect to his own character thus attacked he (Sir J. Graham)
should refer to circumstances, which he believed he could do,
without violating the secrets of his Majesty's COueells; for if he
did not feel he could do so, he should abstain from making the
tblloeing statement:—On the Thursday evening Sir R. Vyvyan
pid a question as to the intention of the Government with re-
spect to proceeding with the Bill. He admitted that the answer of
the Noble Lord on the Thursday evening was positive as to one
point but that the answer as to the dissolution was not direct,but was
of such a nature as not to be misunderstood. He had already oh.
served, that the quotation twirl his address was imperfect ; for
there was no reference to more than one of three things. The
first of these was the small majority on the second reading; and
the next, the small majority against the Bill in a subsequent
stage, which produced the third matter—namely, the delay of
the supplies. All these went to make up the grounds of the de-
termination of his Majesty's Government. It had been this night
said that the Noble Lord (Althorp) had not warned the Hon.
Member for Marlborough that it was of the last importance that
the supplies should be passed that night. He must say, that if
ever a warning was given to any man of anything that would
mcst assuredly happen should another event take place, that
warning had been given on the occasion referred to.—(llear,
hear, hear.) He would not stay to ask whether the course pur-
sued by Ilon. Gentlemen opposite had had the effect of delaying
the supplies, he would only observe that such was, from its very
nature, most likely to be its effect. If Hon, Gentlemen had only
sought to put an end to that discussion, they might have moved
an adjournment of the debate; it was not necessary to move
an adjournment of the House. He would appeal to their
honour, as private gentlemen; he appealed in this manner
especially to the Hon. and Learned Member opposite (Sir C.We-
therell) whether that was not the decided purpose of the gen-
tlemen who had acted together on that occasion. (Sir C. W.
made some answer, welch, in the confusion of the House, was
inaudible.) He appealed to that Hon. and Learned Gentleman,
because, among many honourable men, and many honourable
men there were on that side of the House, there was not one
man of higher honour than the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to
whom he had appeale I.—(Hear, hear.) He asked, whether it
had not been the intention of these Hon. Gentlemen to stop
the Ordnance Estimates ?.--,:No, no.) He thought there was in
the circumstances themselves strong evidence of the fact. The
Right Hon. Baronet opposite seemed as if he felt that such was
the object of the motion ; for he appeared unwilling to mix
himself up with it, and left the House without voting.---(Sir R.
Peel was understood to say, he was not present.) No, not when
the motion was actually made, but during the debate, and almost
within a few moments of the time of making the motion he had
been present, though just before the moment at which it was
actually made he left the House —(Sir R. Peel said lie was
present on occasion of the debate referred to ; he made a long
speech, and he left the House before the division; but not for
the cause supposed by the Right Hon. Baronet.)
Sir J. GRAHAM continued.—The effect of delaying the Sup-
plies was conchisive with the Ministers as to the necessity of Ms-
, solving Parliament. It was on Thursday they had felt strongly
inclined to do so ; but atter that, though a difficulty arose that
seemed insuperable, the dissolution became a matter of unavoid-
able necessity. He alluded to the Supplies tbr the Ordnance
Estimates. It had happened, in 1784 and in NOT, that the Govern-
ment were placed in a similar situation. Parliament was dis-
solved without the Ordnance Supplies being voted. But it so
happened, that it was discovered there was a sum voted and ap-
propriated, but not expended, and the difficulty the Ministry felt
was unexpeetedly got over. Up to this moment the army and
navy had been supplied from money voted by that House, and
the Ordnance had been provided for out of a sum of money voted
in the preceding year, and appropriated for that purpose, but
which happened not to have been expended—(Hear, hear)—
he was happy in being able to communicate that fact to the
House.---(Hear, hear) Under' these circumstances he was
justified in saying, that it was the vote of Thursday
night
which had convinced the Ministry that they would betray what
they conceived to be their duty to their Sovereign and their
country, if they did not advise the King to dissolve the Parlia-
ment.---(Hear, hear.) That was the plain unvarnished tale
he had to tell them, he told it without the opportunity of refer-
ring to the documents, without consulting any person whatever
—he told It upon his recollection of what had occurred; and
having done so, he threw himself upon upon the consideration
of the House, and asked them fairly, whetherwhat he had stated
was not a sufficient explanation—(dear, hear, hear,)—and whe-
ther (he was almost ashamed to ask it) the truth of his asser-
ttion was not amply proved by their own recollection of the I
cir-
cumstances to which he had referred ?—(Hear, hear, hear.)
With respect to what had been said regarding Ireland, he had no
doubt that the Right Hon. Gentleman near him would be able
fully to satisfy the House upon that subject. But there was one
point upon which he himself wished to address a single observa-
tion. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had spoken of she
influence of the Government as displayed in Ireland. The
Right Hon. Gentleman ought to know something of the sort of
influence lately exercised there, for it had been exercised in a
part of Ireland with which he was well acquainted—the county
of Derry. The present Government had there fulfilled a duty
which the late Government had neglected to perform. He al-
luded to a sum of 15,000/. lent to the Corporation of Derry, and
which, by the terms of an Act of Parliament was to be repaid
within a specified time. That time had elapsed without pay-
ment, and, indeed, up to the period at which the present Mi-
nistry took office, the money had not been repaid. The pre-
sent Government had felt it to he theirduty rigorouslyto enforce
payment of this debt.—(Hear, hear.) He would now say
one word with respect to the neglect of Government to supply
relief to the Irish. lie did not thing that Government were
bound to place implicit reliance on the Irish Committee. lie
had the highest respect for the persons composing that Com-
mittee, but the Government had thought it more safe that their
relief should be administered by persons over whom they pos•
li
sessed an immediate controul, as, from the experience of former
years, they became aware that many abuses had arisen in conse-
quence of the want of that controul over the persons employed
to administer the relief afforded to the Irish. Now, what was
the fact with regard to the supposed neglect of the Government?
A fortnight ago they had sent out a person, a respectable officer
of the Victualling Board, a gentleman of known ability, honour,
and integritya man of great experience in the purchase of
stores and provisions, with some means of relieving the diva.

less. That gentleman was sent to Wc; r, it is
et' the distressed districts, with a limitation of his powe
true, as to the amount oecredit he was to obtain, but still with
a very extensive credit, and he was directed to :be most
cautious in his selection of persons to be, entrusted with
the distribution of the relief, but .he was instructed at the
same time tet administer that ,1* elien wherever he was satisfied
that, relief Seat atetkeliy Wanted:. In this conduct the Govern.
eSent at home had been anticipated by the Irish Government,
for his Right Hon. Friend; out of the finals in the Irish Ex-
chequer, had already addiihistered relief to the distressed Irish,
end the% G,overnment at home had Oven to the. utmost vetise,
aure of Parliamentate sanction.fF iii the urgency of the case, and
tKeee itaricts where distress had been most prevalent it
must be a consolation to the House to know that there was a
confidential public officer administering relief.—( Hear.)
Mr. J. SMITH said it was true applications had been made to
the Government on the part of the London Committee, but it
was not the fact that the Government had ever expressed any
doubt as to the existence of distress in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
He believed, on the contrary, that the strong but true picture he
bad drawn of that distress had produced a neweenil effete on
Government. The Member of LIM Government to whom the
applicetion was iiiade said that; he had no power to order the
application Of any hiciney; and the Noble Lord (the Cltaneellor
of the Excheqner) Was then ishgagedat. his eleCtion•' but as soon
as, he returned to town the subject rhould be laifibefere hits.
The Noble Lord did retaitis the ne.'st day, and iinniediately
Wriate h letter, stating that the Government would take
measures to remedy Oita dreadful etel.(Hear, hear; hear.)
He etterwartis knew that the Gpvernment bad gives', money to
relieve the distress,. but, he could, further assure tee HoUse, and
it wohldbe sattsfattery,to every tel How, thdt the publicrempath's had been awakened, and those subscriptions which had
fluctuated between 4 and 5,000/. for some days, had this very
morning amounted to a sum exceeding 23,000/. He was happy
to say that all the Members of the Government had Shown the
greatest sympathy fpr the distress cif the Irish peasantry...
'Hear.) They bad:l,4lm a best deal th relieen it, etirhapd all that
the eleentlistanees of their situation justified them in doing. This,
however, was but a temporary relief; there must be one of a
permanent nature; and if no one else proposed it, he should
take upon himself to do so. It would be possible to lay some
contribution on the land in Ireland; for the ptirpoee of preventing
the peor frOm perishipgionftrotte Want. In, the eottrity Of Mayo.
wals'advaenrc'edd. 7eilrav:llintholmeaotef-ay fittest.
drain sly t
1141 togs there, amisha d
would afford present employment to a large numberofpoorpeople,
and would secure a good return.--;Hear.)
Lord STORMONT thought that the observations of the Right
Hon. Baronet called fer some eephinatiote That Right lion.
Rardelet httd ads:cited td the term( of a former debate. and said
that he (Lord Storiliont) had attacxed his character. He did not
know wily the Right Hon. Baronet had thus selected him. He
was ready to meet the Right Hon. Baronet upon this point, at any
time whatever. The Right Hon. Baronet said there were some
daws which pecked at a chewier they could not soil—(No, no)
—well, then, some daivs that peeked ,at a character which they
etterapten to roil, but wilier' they could not injure. He itishee
tit ask the Right Hon. Baronet distinctly, whether he was meant
when that description was used lA—( Loud laughter.) He was
ready to answer at all times and in all places for anything he had
ever said or done in public or private, and lie called on the Right
Hon. Baronet to say if, he was sneant. He would answer the
questien Which the Right note Baronet had put to that side of
the Itoute. He had voted for the rrleasutie referred to with the
perfect consciousness that it would stop the business of the
House.—(Cheering.) The Right Hon. Baronet said, that was one
of the inducements of the Government to dissolve the Pasha-
, ment. Now he had given the Right Hon. Baronet a manful
answer, and lie required the Right Hon. Baronet to answer in
the same Mann& this qiiestien-,ewhether the motion of Lord
Wharncliffe in the House of Lords was not the reason for the
dissolution ?—(Loud cheering.) • A dissolution of Parliament,
which was almost unprecedented, had taken place under peculiar
circumstances. It was only three nights before that a motion to
reduce the number of Members of that House was negatived;
the Ministers saw they had no longer the confluence of the
peoples and that Made them dissolve the Parliament; their opis
nion was made up on the point, and he asked them whether it
was not so, and whether the last vote had anything to do with it ?
On the following morning they went to the King and requested an
immediate dissolution. The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken
of the consequences of that; but there was one difficulty they had
got over, about which they had said nothing he meant the position
of the late Hon, and Leashed Member for Waterford. The
Right Hon. Secretary would, no doubt, give some explanation
on that wine The Hon: Member had been found guilty, by a
Jury of his country, Of some act Which he had perpetrated the
year bethre, and yet he bad not been brought up for judgment.
[hat matter required some explanation. The next point relat-
ing to the conduct of Ministers was, as to the influence they had
used during the elections, and not only they themselves, but the
persons under them. Violence had been exercised, andi in one
case a man bad been carried away in a post:chaise. These acts
required the interposition of that Mime: The next point was,
a dinner that had been given in Northumberland, where the
High Sheriff proposed the toast—" The People—the only source
of legitimate power ;" and proposed it before the health of his
Majesty.---(Hear, and oh.) His Noble Friend was present at
that dinner, and did not prevent the toast being drank. That
cc tainly was a case which required explanation. He said that
every person present was liable to blame ; but the Noble Lord
opposita was estirse than shy other, tor he sat by and heard his
Sovereign insulted, and said nothing, Such a toast was an insult.
They on the other side had thought so, and they on his (Lord
S.'s) side of the House, thought so still, and so did all the rank,
and wealth, and talent of the country, anti they were not adu.
lators. The other side---those who drank such toasts, were the
fawners-.-the adulators of the base multitude. He would not
detain the Hotise further. He assured the flight Hon. Baronet
he had no intentien to Cast any imputation on the Right Hon.
Baronet's character, and he hoped he should hear these points
explained as frankly as he had explained his own conduct.
Lord HOWICK said it was true that at a dinner at Alnwick
the High Sheriff did give the toast referred to, and that it was
drunk before the health of his Majesty. He agreed with his
Noble Friend, that this course was wrong according to este-
' blished etiquette; but, he was bound to sa.y, that in the acci-
dental departure from the general rule, the High Sheriff had
intended nothing disrespectful to his Majesty—that the intens
tion was precisely the contrary--that his Majesty was considered
to resign for the benefit of his people, a sentiment which his
Majesty himself would be the last to disclaiin.--(Hear.) No
marked demonstration of feeling followed this toast • but on the
health of his Majesty being proposed immediately afterwards, it
was received in such a manner, that he would venture to say at
no Pitt Club had it ever been snore loudly cheered. He wished
that these Who suspected the loyalty of the people of Northutn.
berland could have been with him during his late tour, and they
would then have seen how much they were mistaken : knowing
this, he could not but feel he should have been unwarranted in
interfering to prevent it
Mr. STANLEY—Although he felt in common with that
House that the explanations already given were quite satisfac-
tory, yet he could not but observe that the discussion of after.
dinner toasts was not the most dignified manner in which a Ses-
sion of unparalleled importance was to begin, but it was doubly
out of place at a moment when all Europe was uniting in one
expression of loyalty and attachment to the Sovereign. The
Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) having deprecated any thing
like acrimonious discussion, he (Mr. Stanley) had heard with re-
gret the speeches of some Hon. Members on the other side of
the House, the tendency, if not the aim, of which was to pro-
voke personal rancour, not growing out of any topics in the Ad-
dress, but dragged into the debate.—(Hear, hear.) Amid the
multitude of questions relating to Ireland put to him, there was
one by the Noble Lord who had just sat down (Lord Stormont),
to which he was glad, as Secretary for Ireland, to be required to
give an answer : he was glad to reply to it, because he was
always anxious to meet imputations against his own personal con-
sistency, or the honour of the Government. It had been broadly
asserted that the late dissolution was part of a system of
collusion, in order to avoid bringing to punishment an indi-
vidual, who, having been subjected to a State prosecution, had
been found guilty. He (Mr. Stanley) pledged his solemn word of
honour
that Aft
After
ro
tcillarges dissolution, ev
verym or more
eutterlyous d
ou destitutebtsw were
roef founenter-
tained by the Law Officers of the Crown in Ireland, whether the
Act under which the individual had been convicted having ex-
pired by the dissolution, it would be strictly legal to have him
brought tip for judgment For himself tie would say, that he
was most anxious that Mr. O'Connell should be brought up for
judgment, and no pains were spared by the Government to pro-
cure his punishment. The Law Officers of the Crown' in Ire-
land, distrusting their own opinions, had obtained the aid of the
Attorney and Solicitor General in England, and the result was,
that as not a single precedent could be found to support the bring-
ing of Mr. O'Connell up for judgment under such circumstances,
notice was given to him that the prosecution was abandoned.
Then it was said that Parliament ought not to have been dis.
solved if such would be its effect : but with all his (Mr. Stanley's)
ia,
dl 1 a
lc, ke nmoilssitesdagyin,
tehnattopf
ui
tist
,Mn
gl etnhtes
teof bt
ec aHr rei bi‘yi
etinh ebedissolution
,
areesdpe:ftth hisr
ws,ldre.
,On o,
en,
,neeel I,—n
n.
six, or twelve months' imprisonment into the other, lie could not
intogrea t e
doubt for a moment which way the balance preponderated.—
measure
scale. uanhdi ethh ew pa us :fenny idee dn
t
tion having subsided, the consequences to Mr. O'Connell -were of
(Hear.) Besides, the effect having been produced, and the agita-
still less importance. He was glad to see opposite a Right Hon.
Member (Mr. we believe), who having, like others, de.
precated person
the law lie had himself laid down ; led away, no doubt, by the
Dawson,
imputations,son like others had offended against
torrent of his own eloquence. He had brought some serious
charges against the Irish Government, adding that he should be
wd
been refuted to a tolerable ex tent, but he (Mr. Stanley)
Right
endeavour to give him a bttle more of the happiness thei
most happy to hear them satisfactorily refuted. They had alread
ouly
Hon. Gentleman so wished to enjoy. First, he charged him (5 r.
Stanley) with having exercised an unparalleled influence in the
late election for Dublin, by menaces to those who' voted, or to
those who refused to vote, or by dismissal from office.He (Mr.
Stanley) would take upon himself to say, that in no single in.
stance, either in Dublin, or in Ireland generally, within the me
influence as that which had just occurred.—(Much cheering, and
cries of " Oh, oh I) He called upon one Hon. Member in par-
ticular,who so loudly vociferated " Oh, oh!" to get up in his
piece, and state an instance in which a person had been dis-
missed for not acting in unison with the wishes of Govern-
ment.—(Hear, hear.) He would venture to ,say that no in-
stance of the kind could be named, and that no threats
had ever been used by the present Government to influence
voters. So much the contrary had been the fact, that people
like the Right Hon. Gentleman, acquainted with the good old
times of Irelaed, were astonished at the apathy with which the
Government of Ireland looked on during the struggles of their
friends.—(Cheering.) To show that the Government had pur-
posely abstained from the employment of all influence, he would
mention that a circular had been privately sent to the Inspectors
of the Police (a numerous and well-disciplined corps in Ireland),
stating that the men were at perfect liberty to vote for what can-
didate they pleased ; but that they must abstain from acting as
partisans on either side.--(Hear, hear.) He hoped, therefore,
that the Right Hon. Gentleman would himself admit that his
charges were satisfactorily contradicted.—(Mr. G. Dawson said
across the table, " No, no, not satisfactorily.") He did not
mean that the contradiction would give the Right Hen. Gentle-
man satisfaction, probably not ; he would, no doubt, be much
better satisfied if the accusation had been at once admitted ; but
although the Right lion. Gentleman might not be satisfied, he
(Mr. Stanley) trusted that the House would be convinced.--
(Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman next adverted to what had
been said on the subject of distress in Ireland and as-
serted, that before the subject was brought forward in Parliament,
Government had sent relief to the county of Mayo in the shape
of provisions, so as to supply the wants of the starving people at
a moderate price, and to keep down the exorbitant demands of
those who, having :laid in a stock, were anxious to take advan-
tage of the extremity to which the population was reduced. He
was happy to find that these steps had been taken with such ju-
dicious secrecy that they had escaped the vigilance even of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, who fancied that no relief had been
afforded until within about the last fortnight. Nothing but the
urgency of the necessity could have justified Government in com-
ing forward with gratuitous aid without the authority of Parlia-
ment, and the secrecy with which it had proceeded had at least
produced this good effect, that it had awakened the charitable
sympathies of the wealthier inhabitants of this country. The
Speech from the Throne spoke of the cautious deliberation that
was necessary upon these subjects ; but the Hon. Member for
Louth, with his characteristic impetuosity, had accused Govern.
ment of tardiness, and had spoken of the rapidity with which the
question of the repeal of the Union was making way. He (Mr.
Stanley) agreed with the Hon. Member, that it was necessary
to show that the union of Ireland with England was an union
Hb
iesahri..) g Ha en d, r
int 0a0,,, e tnt shy es t ne
me -
efoersst,htye
ebef nseeinfi teosftelprselanford.e—sti
of relief for the poor; but he could not concur with an lion.
Member (Mr. Sadler), who was at once for introducing the
Poor Laws into Ireland as a panacea for all evils. He was
anxious first for time to inquire and deliberate, although he was
very far from thinking that such a case of paramount necessity
might not be proved as to render some system of local assess-
ment at least expedient. Such a portentous step could, how-
ever, only be taken on an alternative of ills, and then not with-
out the utmost caution. He was not aware that any other topics
had been introduced which he was required to notice, and he
trusted that the Address would be voted nemine contradicente,
as an expression of attachment and loyalty, and as a proof of a
determination to follow, during the Session, the advice given

from the Throne, of discussing all matters with temper and
moderation. As far as the Reform Bill was concerned, it it were
to pass, of which lie had no doubt, such a Maw would render
it more perfect, more satisfactory to its friends, and more palate.
able to its eeemies.---(Much cheering.)
Mr. TANLEY.—Although somewhat irregular—(" Spoke,
spoke. ")eahe had felt assured, until he heard those explanations,
that a member of the Government uponetethirli such imputation
had been cast Would be allowed a fair thpugh a brief hearing--
gaee credit to snch general, vague, and un-
eCheers.) The Hon Baronet had been lOudly encouraged even
trespassy
seiihtaierseil
fniptieinolos
ire et
tbdse whose standints: in Parliament ought to have made them
ey
on the patience of the House while he stated his edllre
ef,dhfccLatrigbinnainegaFt'oheela:d.,.) noti in the Hon. Baronet's be-
lief stanier) would only
the reality of his charges, but in the reality of the charges
es.—(Hear, hear.) Upon his honour he knew of no
as had been alluded to ; and, upon his honour
nothe believe
leve that it could be substantiated.—(Much cheer-
ingdhi
dp r
not
and great confusion.) When the lion. Baronet charged the
Commander,of the forces in. Dublin with exciting a riot—when
he rhatieed the rend Chancellor of Ireland with bartering offices
in the laW and the ehilfch fee twenty en• thirty totes, it was duo
to men filling such great and responsible Situations, that the ac-
cusation should ndt be Merely stated, but proved. The lion. Ba.
ronet, howeeer, in the absence of the parties--without notice--
without
.preparations—hed made the gravest accusations of the
grossest aed he (Mr. Stanley) invited and demanded
that they should, if it Weee Passible, be substantiated. He called
on the Hon. Member to prove his charge by itidieeleal instances
and not by general assertions. He promised his best assistance
for thet purpose ; and if the Hon. Member failed to accept tile
incitation hts now gate him, he would fail in his duty to the
House and the cesinlry.---( Hear, hear.)
Sir R. BATESON said, lie was not to be deterred ffom his
duty by the londaiiil vehement derfunciatiehe of the Right lion.
Gentleman-s-(llear)-s-nor; although a plain country gentiernan,
to be put down by, his more commanding eloquence. The Bight
Hon. Gentlernanhed somewhat misrepresented what he said of
the Gallafit Oeeetal, He neier Said thet the Gallant Officer en-
couraged the riots. He befieted bite to be a distinguished officer,
and an honourable and high-minded mate What he slid say
was, that one of the General's Aides-de-camp was in the eroSed,
dressed in a green coat • and that he patted persons on the back
who had been observed most active in creating disturbance--
(46r; aiid We) He had also been misunderstood with respect
to what he Said of the bold Chancellor. He had stated what he
had heard.---(Hear, hear, and cheese) iie was not disposed to
bring down the vengeanceof Government on inclivirlitals bid be
selected these things as an independent Member of thatllouse,
and he was.fearless of the consequences for himself.
Sir p WETHERELL said, that when he looked at the King's
tipeeth; beginising as it did with Reform, andending with cholera
morbus---(A laugh)-=-with Bele:him, Ireland, and what not in
the middle, he saw plainly it was intended to communicate
nothing to the people or that House ; and that as it redeemed
none of the pledges of Which Ministers bad once been so pro.
fuse, so it committed them to no plan or course of proceeding in
the operation of the Session.---(Hear.) As to the Bill of which
the Noble Lord (Russell) had said so much, lie could tell the
Noble Lord, that if it paesed,• it would throw a wet blanket on
all those hereditary honours of his house, for which he had so
justly taken credit when he introduced the measure to that
House. The day that Bill passed would be the commencement
of the destruction of all those family distinctions of which the
Noble Lord seas so proud ; and although they were told that it
went to no more than the removing some of the remnants
of feudalism, he could not forget that the same cry was
raised before the assemblage of that Convention which, in a
neighbouring country, brought the Monarch to the scafibld,
and destroyed all its political institutions. As to the Speech,
it Contained nothing. It was a mere waste of words and
paper, but he could not avoid, at the opening of a new
Parliament, reverting to the cause of the dissolution of
of the last, and pn testing against the falsehood put forth by some
persons that that Parliament had stopped the supplies. He did
not mean to say that the Members of the Government committed
themselves by saying so, but he knew that they had permitted
their agents and friends to give it forth for election purposes,
that the Lord Chancellor of England had declared the House of
Con-intone stopped the supplies. He was opposed to his Learned
Friend the Lord Chancellor, in all plans, political and legal, but
still he hoped he might call him friend. He did not mean to say
that those who put forth the report he alluded to were in the pay
of his Learned Friend and the Government. He knew better
than to rouse the genus irritabile of the press. All he would say
was, that there was a kind of literary sympathy between them—
that they were friendly to the Government; and it w.,s stated
by them, that no less a person than the Lord Chancellor had de-
eland the refractory and indecent conduct of the House of Corn-
Mons to have been the cause of the dissolution, although all the
world knew, and he believed he could almost prove, that the dis-
solution was determined on in the Cabinet full twelve hours be-
fore the event which was called the stoppage of the supplies took
place. The First Lord of the Admiralty, when lie was charged
with having any participation in this calumnious attack on the
Commons, sailed out of port, and offered to defend himself; but he
said nettling of others, and he left the Chancellor in a dry dock
—(A laugh.) He (Sir C. W.) was ready to prove that in various
places the agents of the Government---false friends they must be
considered—had gone about stating that the King was ill used
by the stoppage of the supplies. Ministers, too, although they
did not order the illuminations in the Metropolis, had yet not
exercised their power to prevent them, as in such times of ex-
citement they should have done; and the Lord Mayor, who
might be called a kind of political lamplighter---(A laugh)--had
the merit of having assisted the progress of the elections, by
allowing an opportunity for the expression of an opinion on the
conduct of those who were considered unfavourable to Reform.
—(Hear, hear.) The people of Holborn and the Tower Ham-
lets would naturally be arreious to light up in favour of the
Reform which. was to give them representatives ; but he
thought it would be better if they had caught the fish before
they fried them.---(A laugh.) Ile did not say that the Lord
Mayor or the Government had acted illegally, but he was sure
they had acted improperly in countenancing or encouraging
such proceedings in the irritated state of the public mind.
The Ho ourable Member then alluded to the riots at Car-
marthen, Rye, and various other places, and contended that
they were got up to favour the Government candidate. As to
the assertion, now so commonly bandied about, that those who
sit for nomination boroughs were compelled to obey the com-
mand of the patron, he would merely say, while in his own case
he denied it, that no demand from a patron was ever so impera-
tive as that cuckoo note which was exacted from all the Go_
vernment candidates at the late elections; when they were called
to shout for the Bill, the whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill
((Hear, and a laugh. As for himself, he had been called by a
Noble Duke, and a Postmaster too (the Duke of Richmond), an
agent of another Noble Duke (Newcastle) He denied that it
was so. There was no more accomplished gentleman in England
both in mind and manner than the Duke of Newcastle, but he
was no more his agent than the Noble Lord (Russell) was the
agent of the Ministry. As long as their sentiments were the
same they acted together, as the Noble Lord acted with the Mi-
nistry; and when they differed, the connection must be dis-
solved in the same manner. He trusted, therefore, they woul
hear no more of the corrupt boroughmongers ; for he was as little
open to that charge as the Solicitor-General, who also
sat for one of those boroughs, or the Learned Civilian
(Lushington), who had the good fortune to sit for two of
them. After some further observations on the charge against
the House of Commons, that it had refused the supplies,
which, perhaps, after all, was a mere figure of speech of
the Chancellor, whose imagination was unquestionably very
brilliant, though if he (Sir Charles) possessed it, he could use it
more cautiously, he proceeded to say that he was determined to
oppose every part of the Bill in every stage, when it came before
the House. He maintained the Reform was a delusion. He had
thought so before the Parliament wasdissolved, and since the dis-
solution he had become certain of it. In one place Reform was
interpreted to mean the reduction of the Malt fax ; in another,
the reduction of the Assessed Taxes; and in a third, the abolition
of Tithes. To explain what Reform meant, a dictionary would be
necessary ; but it was impossible it could be all that was promised
and expected. As for reduction of taxes, those who proposed
that, knew that for every tax they took off another must be laid
on. Some succedaneum niust be found for every tax abolished;
yet there was not one candidate who appeared on the hustings,
who had not asserted, or falsely allowed it to be supposed, that he
would in that House repeal some one, or allof thesetaxes.---(No,
no.) He said, taking the fine distinction which had been drawn by
the Right Hon. Baronet (the Member for Cumberland), candidates,
not Members ; and there was not a candidate who had not pledged
himself to the reduction of taxes, or allowed it to be supposed
that he so pledged himself. That was what the people under-
stood by the Reform. They had demanded the Bill, the whole
Bill, and nothing but the Bill; but he would venture to say that
the whole Bill and nothing but the Bill would not be brought
into the House of Commons. The Hon. Member for Middlesex
accused him of want of liberality, because he had opposed the
Timber Tax ; but Ministers had themselves condemned that
most unjust tax, by withdrawing it, or proposing (which was like
withdrawing it) to postpone it for several years. Of all that
famous Budget which the honest, but on thet point, not success-
ful Chancellor of the Exchequer, had brought forward, not one
tax had been retained. And was he to place his confidence in
those, as great modellers of the State,. who could not model a
Budget ? Were those fit to new-form the State, who
did not know how to form a Budget ? He thought
not, and he should not place his confidence in them.
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman concluded by apolo-
gizing for having addressed the House; but as the Right
Hon. Gentlemen opposite had had an opportunity of explaining
their opinion, he had also taken the opportunity of expressiong
his opinion.
Mr. DOMINICK BROWNE referred to the distress which
existed in the county of Mayo, and defende.t the Government
from the charge of having neglected the sufferings of the people.
The Noble Lord at the bead of the Irish Goverument had con-
tributed largely, and the Noble Earl at the head of the Govern-
ment in England had lendlyattended to his representations. The
present Government was not to blame, for he had heard the
Noble Duke, formerly at the head of the Government, say, when
it was stated that there was a famine in Ireland, that it was only
one of the periodical visitations to which Ireland was exposed.
The Government had done right in sending the Commission
into the West of Ireland, and he saw nothing to object to in its
conduct, though he could have wished that it had made the Ma-
gistrates of the counties more strictly perform their duty.
Major MACN AMARA also bore testimony to the beneficial
effects of the Commission.
Mr. MAURICE O'CONNELL said that, in Clare, he was
happy to say, that at the last Sessions there was no instance of
outrage.
Colonel EVANS referred to the excitement which existed in
the country, and said that in the borough which he represented
the gentleman who had long busied himself by taking the rights
of the freemen into his own hands, and nominating the Mem-
ber, had brought down a coach-load of hired boxers to keep the
peace ; and he wished to know if that was not a means of pro-
voking excitement among the people.
The motion was then put, and it was agreed to, neminc eon-
tradicente, that an Address should be presented to his Majesty,
and a Committee appointed to prepare the same.

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