The Sun.
London, England, 1831-03-05 00:00:00

N

•
, qv.'
'ii
intiCluce' of the spece in which it was necessarily in-
, bait o 1 .
'hole. He , may say surprisiugly complet(, it was stated (un-
nnt graduilly lt,istintlerstanil the tenor of his observaoions) that
ins which was to be specifically included in the cling.,
,anehise corruiPi' tat, was proposed ; and th it, although the Bill
fr:endl).• .0; tliatthlntrodneed ',vas applicable solely to England, yet
list proPo"tlf . e Prieeiple was to he arvied, to the same extent
sfer "1 w IQ the . ifother tvo Mrs
he trail the a,
r, same inanntr astac .
,e ° ift the House. Considering then that the
,„ I a,anland is now under our review, and that
iorn were o'cr; %jot:tit looked nas the person who, from his official
• wished t) l; a'sla 'n' called on to draw the Bill which ex•
• it:11
tt').i•a7'aefen.'eaure of Reform to that tnuotry..l
ifeel 1)0100(1,,
;v.; wotals with respect
,to ltd princlio e and. l
-he m re so as I think tle-lt the neve-say for
1-" t ile.""'P let ''"ert 'd'h""ge in the represent. ion of Scotland has not
er and "le / !welt on proportion to its importance. It is true
lun.sott'lio‘; (of sZtltl'at two Noble Lords did just introduce the n ome
'that •
(lir'er',,a it! ti"rl the course of the debate, hot lam not
I not rt tae
trorl,,n,:at beyond a mere statement of the efficaey of the
adopted utiticlihet of the present system, and au assertion of die
si the werrethe thatp,
f. 4 and undeniahle lot of the general prosperity of
oduced
allfrail
Moto
the empire, other observation has Litho
L. r 4pe niol• Meitil .t )res iect to the state of the
4, t
„tic, it r a 1”.. _
is those a "hops Itittodul of Scotland. And tots lea s tac (evt nif 1
It arose fer;o4 tqp,63 to confine myself to Scotland, which Ido not),
-broad '11; of
of "e of the great topics which I perceive in the
the cotlio he dis,eussion has been most generally presented
,thedy rect.,i the as,,,e in !lave taken part in it, to the attehtion of the
end aFla'd 1,40 thit deb I Say' one of the great topics, for, as I take it,
istify the P'iogy ramtratce has latterly turvisil on a comparatively small
bit etlq.tht it all those which were originally put forward,
so great 'll atatfrceil.t proportion of those dwelt on in the earlier
at two coretbte
i"l,o,eintt'',l:lg now finally disposed of in the judg,inent of
le, and lb', den th Nlendirrs of !pith sides of the House. I
feeble co, he
Nit!, t°Pics on both sidts that have been most fre-
t trent, goo ,gra 41toded to and ct pressed on nor atten-
r toe e nf I mo. .t )
railsfrr'liogg "nven.
sides of the House, are, first the undoubted
• ;rivd I! 0,0 Posant'tY of the people of both sides of the island at the
isfied that itona
e 4resatintf';'rnent, prosperity which the argument of any
eff tlitvti9 of ( the present motion goes to impeach. Seetitioly,
e-'ntitnbor* o'er, the' °f any showing of any direct evil in the situation
rid net die 'this}, P."Ple, or of any injury to their national int• rests,
c for the doe „a 'toil. ten he directly' traced to the state of the representa-
then, could °Ili! of the want of any specification of the
her phices.llo. ray
to ranch's nhich the changes now proposed are
,ae Itticolifer on us.-(Hear.) If I were disposed to
sidered Ole t taight.'""tory rather than attempt to
.be argumentative,
niu'ot°l l'aau I,P,"l'aps add to these the grievances %e hich an
;1;', "I,co and Learned Member eharacteri•ed so pl tyfully
e ' oots
eo grater fdacifullv as a corporation robbery, and that other
18teitMCI:e 111,40/I,t:lni tnto.ro serioua charge put forward by aTnnilli,:ii7t.
, waspll „` a tendency to promote a revolution. s
all ri1eti",,,,,41 on the insinuations, that the ultimate conse-
ie la" orl'the itiotor,e°, these changes must he to remove the Crown
rc-s
frit id till it "ut linow of the Sovereign, and that Monarchy' and
lie the ".I/, 'l4l4.'llth and • • •will he sneedily rooted out
rd at u- this t 3 institutions • o
Pe de'
41 enuntrv• I might, too, enumerate among these
;e in , ' h for
)eaten .pr -n, that no reason has been s oanthesee
repea eceata ,
n
'Teo° aOf "'et' changes-that the people themselves do
oar es
tlat , and have not really called four them ; and
ra:ls:filetantly,ot 1,41 although they are now exceedingly clamorous,
ept'oanned l'aasi'"i:ting on the fulfilment of their wishes with me-
e 1% force in the event of a refusal, still that all
ont 1,41 le.•orottr anti all these menaces were originally raised,
Imee reel'', dal Plek,;i4vc 'teen sedulously fostered, by those who are now
'in,greeleisxrein'itiaetrertrit',l Orig ti'''in as a justification of that measure which
et, Ilear:ehendeavouring to prevail on this House to adopt._
not solelt ori' la' "1..)-I may be permitted to a'.1.1 finally, to all
• hi' sit '44,, 'at has been put forth confidently both in and out
stating Or ty r S
d I at notwithstanding these manceuvres the present
such, dier,ll s.,`"' of re r • is -I,
'al were i" , _ P csentaton at the bottom extremely popular
l
}fiat
.itt, hose opinions can be considered itnpertanr, anr
eto forgo he
in wait', "gt country prospered eminently, and attained the
iTi: memoir ,stla arank among nations with that representation, it
sharer 00 " rash and unwise to change what we pos,essed
no
..esfi , 'at Whici , known, may he less bene-
tneasure ".ot i It as less
,edsitt,gatetheenttilloil't,
.o'l4tatz ('rear', hear. )---Now, applying myself to the latter
s the arguments of the opponents of this measure, I
oi; it? ta'sk what is the inference to be reall' drawn from
non-hig'..resigle,elig l't,r,:;:nuking hack through the last two or) three hundred
aao ark Isti, a are told that under our pre cot system we have
ight Of vet 0, It
is
ttl increasing in glory- and in prosperity. Undoubtedly
rent. the days of the Tudors and the Stuarts we
d, too,
ee° ProsPerous. Even then our wealth and splendour and
districts, f t (1,,r
• art ° f Pita,b et of cultivation began to distinguish us from the
° '"e other°'and; and I would add, too, that compared with
)nuna,:tro-1:0, itriegott Sty ,einpires of Europe, we had even then made a
over to tie' are ltbat ""siderahle progress in the attainment of domestic
Ithe"couotithe4 htssY,..i.--(llear.)-And it we had thus easily gained
properif o'
.4 great extent of politic of liberty, and
1
4tla assails and opulence, might it not have
ate the rtt
I' argument against the prudence of those
eleggich hotiiilived under the Tudors and the Stuarts, that they
ate so
lo the 01 'ha, have rested satisfied with the liberty anti the
cfacte tat they already possessed, and that they ought
to reincOis io
asstk ve struggled for more, because they endangered
easure.
it Y orLthat which they had already achieved?-
lidlot tntitrloi‘greeio, :he a„lt'na,,)
Thatainst
in truth, is the argument now put for-
it 505 014 ". --(Hear.) It is a fact, that in order to
'lt o'ae , ot' vera' $r at measure- of public and national pro-
fit'a,4 a very little decree of political frot•doin is found
a,
e'd%aao $11f010e:( t‘,4iNttf,).
oc:lea.r.) Every despot
.who, either froirr sa. n rees
s-
tageooe'Y Oa° v. ribver, own interests, or from indifference or ea i
nthad a ot 4 'apt 'ay allow a limited degree of political fi sedum
Ile could ,fie prig pf"'
these
encouragemi nt to industry and en-
etl fur the 'lt r ]ruin that arises manufactures and commerce.
Id make °Pr' I°, a 4) a-, of
t• 'I'M is the growth of ea e, wealth, and
Under
n be 00,110 :tat 1,107, he fruit of the tree is liberty.-( Hear.) Under
't "ea screePill'of ;:lts rato protection which even a tyrant may, for the
fore' eftl 441°, h's interest, give the honey-bees, they obtain
r°rDpei-oingittehr the the language of the son of Sirach, who seems,
atiott gra,'
~ 44414 am-I(7w+, to have been a commentator on the
laele or: 1,1
t_
‘1 the English Constitution-(A laugh)-they
"'Nth ° tlandieraft ; lout when their industry has given
4itrityrie,rti!le,y demantl liberty, which is the daughter, and
"in' qauired
o st
t,ti
at he lititti.re tll,4llttarl uptu4b7., of prom_perity._(H.ear.)
,Thus
trose the
greatest ,ly tics-tims rose the free German own
lat ° ostt‘,4" the cities of Flanders-thus rose the seeds of
arid t time t gaati o tow
tolagi•'n ? 4l4ted 48 and guilds, which, under the portal. of ae-
sir aocapiotti. $ y aat, hw'ealth, obtained that municipal and civil free-
tio° ° redf c" f°arned the groundwork of our present liber-
s.tua a bo4 1t required l• . •
.ifs pi, ktll all
,ato tale consideration to understand that of
lie so ) p, 1,4 gives us ttstitriony-that as the acco-
oa tae clg )
raj, toe° ;00,, ,4!tetiohef wealth leads to the desire of freedom for its
.Opther o,n_et'oseliorl th'e4ihth, and cup •rnent Po the multiplication of that
, tI7 its
whi clue's through 1
to ref3l,a° egg, tr,,,,hi el 4 :leen et, possess it-the very distress, in truth,
-fliPaoY the possession of capital and of the
i/no3,inch ans cit,fdettl4.lo) rag it, tlernantled greater extensions of
he nature .00.4 e o teguh o Increase of the number of those to whom
fit wefel'il:i'a' lags to ateSfart of public affairs are entrusted, and who
not glee ?et a‘afevit, .""rIJI acquainted with the peculiar
.wants and
aaes fa( all the departments into which society is then
'" 100 ottia .(Hear.) It must then follow, I think, as an
‘OO ''"eSSit
Ad been 0 °di 444 as nati‘s 3- for governing safely and
.wisely, that as
nd firoillebea7pra a,,h,enalizaa'n" continue to make progressions in 'wealth
of i Jetta,' "en, the political institutions to which they are
„rscnon2l' t° °111;°' 111
r4sl.l4'''aos •r'iht be adapted to the change of circumstances,
fie; 4,3 their interest demand the attention of men
a sac( ' ac', \‘•11 of trme of accommodating themselves to the busi-
of tafetPre 4, ' State and the increasing difficulties of society.
less `v„ei.reJ;d; 11:1,:ta.tia-aetutdingl)a has been the progress of the political
be I'l-00 ,t) of 'did, to °C England ? We were prosperous, anti
gee a "i,l,lffecte3ll,6l at famous in the times of the Star Chamber-
fa tl .(411111t,, -es"-”f purveyors anti of ship money-our
why tlioetioroicLi! distinguished throughout the 57111
the
I that, oat sta,,td,a, intelligence-works of a character he
',reiro'eLiarlo peevj ht,;‘,44(1 in the history of man, were composed, and
age pit'hisser
as as as proud a natue and her character and
tluen respected, as in the' proudest periodsofher
coal° , soo
~, • I 3 eh
„eel the' ,het it bPtopit !hat was the consequence of this ? Just as
padie,„ o
_jot. nit
.0441 e ntinued to increase in wealth and int&ligencs
"was air; oglios"eel t_Lat ,ilinel?pe.nsible to her happiness and her prospe-
awate.hsl I)iit;risa,
sail oasis of her political institutions should be
ht io i '1 that room should he provided for the multi-
ar tae re 'or • r'n of freetiotn.-(Hear, hear.)-Is it true I
co-,„,111, ls it „,
11 oavo out., that the events of the last twenty-five
hilt of
toot Ir'of iittol%
altriietated in this country a mass of political in-
statta iOO or 0%, or. capacity ainona the people who form these
Pula. trot
large lid i understanding the hearing and tendency
boot
Itooloce,• l),,hrtitlit hia4o•lirrie,liiistory, and i
fill ata" if . t, in nt
with which they hid no compari-
coatelose set. at naught. all their pre-
i° '"aote44 of prge alid experience? All knew that the greater
,e c°°o4o,ol l'te, the en,Perty commenced under the concessions
he fhb's
00001tt hat_rtie
rich, Rotors to their serfs, and that as their serfs
state,,,, it k 055,,,,, 11)°1s1,,a,or
ra0.,1 free, they either extorted rights from the
to 0"'-aaelej ashes{ charters anti privileges in towns from
ironer er'`..oo° for Itsr'' who, cunningly for his own day, hut un-
A eSPer. 0' 4et th 'UCCe,I
e 14t j °i 81 granted these privileges to corm-
'lb t„a tope ,o4,,aaorpo , orrice of his rebellious Nobles. Thus rose
dfl' tra4ally,l.rnata then the Burghs, and folowing theta
ilary n't 8u I • • • -
be °ll° og') en'e Yo all the liberties and immunities
in faocre°3l,ee'lt pe
oaft thlts).•loAr And what is the conaequetwe? Why
;co tae ha«
tkeat, th
i
s
nent the great mass of the popula-
the‘ool ,tmo, rolt 44"Uiltry
Possess a quantity of
teta ' e, Nate, e'amlilog, and an extent of information,
tlghe titc,'l with 'olhein 10 trample under foot the sophis-
ottai tAe 'ltch Princes •
riot. - raa 40. t weredeluded ! some
oat. aar ,'ties ono o make a matter of ridicule of the
j tat it leer puisi% iperstitions which were then delivered
00%00 ler, ,
4. it.,),1 et, rte ta; But, then, it is said that we should
thie, -to the to o,,,,.rastitf.. because we now enjoy such a highs state
• taati, '0„, oaara.'ea, ;hut who is to be the judge of the standard
aberg'whiesatal, 'ata•l'atrte,ltut • I know of no limits to the progress of
sore j ket,''Reat "Jr to the • . . •
jos o. continually increasing desires of
deo ave the absence of reason in the argu-
pilig a .10' ;of at, I I'll 4 the cravings of their desires are to be sup-
(jag catre elathe ( lam)
„ado 44 that Now what is really the fact here ? for
us, we are, in this case, to determine wore

Lets than arguments.—(near.) I shall state the case
f tidy, for I am arguing tlu., general principle. Let us sup-
pose that there is no other boon demanded from us, at the
present moment, than that we sloarld admit to a share of
the pririlees of the represent ition a lirge proportion of
the wealthy, the intelligent, and the middle classes of the
country ; those who are at Leeds and Manchester, and in
a large portion of the metropolis itself, wholly excluded
from the right of returning Members to Parliament. Is
it true, then, I ask, that thos, persons are discontented—
(Hear, and no,)—dissatisfied—'Hear, and no, no)—and
soured, from being placed render an exclusion—(No)—
and from being depi•ivitml of a right Avhicli they see exer-
cised elsewhere, ity otbe:rs placed ins much I-nimbler con-
dition of society Z. a sav nn; ask, what are,we to
say to the innumerable petitions on the. table of the House ?
Petitions corning by hundreds and thousands, not from
the middle or the lower classes, but from the bankers,
the merchants, and the lawyers, and men moving
in the most elevated circles in time country.—(Hear.)—
If this be the caso, and if these petitions be as numerous
as I understand they are, how is it we hive not one to
the contrary ? how is it we have !sad no petition denying
the necessity or propriety of Reform? Hon. Members
have ar:ued this question as if it was an invasion of pa-
tent right. But the attempt to invade them has not been
made in a corner. The newspapers have not bcten silent
on the subject, for, singular as may be the coincidence,
they are unanimously in favour of what some lion. Mem-
bers call the minority; and yet, how happens it, that
with all this alleged difference of opinion on the subject of
Reform—with all the hostility and iniFfierence to it in the
country—no external document had )et appeared on the
table of that House to give evidence of the existence of
these feelings, with the exception of that petition from a
city (Bristol), which contained an argument on the sub-
ject that might he expressed somewhat in time language of
the dissenting Barons of old, that they were non-ling the
laws of England should be changed.—(hear, hear, and a
laugh.)-.--I think, while lam on the subject of petitions,
that I may venture to say a few words respecting the
country with which I ant more immediately con-
nected. Scotland has sent up a number of petitions,
and I know from the best authority that a great
part, and, I believe, the whole of them were got up
without the knowledge of those who presented them,
and that they came with the greatest surprise
on many of those who had no idea that any such me 'sole
was contemplated. The Town Councils of all the most
considerable burgles have petitioned ; and in Glasgow—a
plata! where I was educated, of which I know so much,
and with which I have been so intimately connected, that
there is scarcely a person of any note of whom I do not
know something—l can safely s:ty, that four-fifths of all
those have signed the petition, and that of the 180 prin-
cipal names who signed the requisition, at least one-half
were doubtful of the safety or propriety of Reform some
years ago, and are now converted from their former opi-
nions.—(Hear.)—ln addition to these I may name the '
Town Council of Perth, of Aberdeen, and of Dundee.—
(Hear, hear, and a laugh.)—An Hon. Member opposite
smiles at the name of Dundee, but he should know that
while my election is under appeal, public affairs are ma-
naged by a Commission ; and that they have, in conjunc-
tion with a great majority of the Guild, signed the peti-
tion. Having said thus much, I row apply myself to the
measure before the House, which divides itself into two
parts with respect to the franchise. In the one case the
franchise is taken away from a considerable body, who at
present po sess it; and in the other, it is given to a
great number who at present have it not. Now, as to
those who have no representatives, can it be said that any
bad eff.cts would arise from giving representatives to
Manchester, Leeds, and Sheffield ; or that any injury
wool I be inflicted on property, or any pernicious con-
sequences flow to the other classes of society, if the large
counties, each of which might be divided into sections
equal tm some of those of the ordin try size, were permitted
to rem: n Members for each section ? How, he would ask,
could this demoralise the people or injure the power of time
Throne and the Aristocracy ? But when it was con-
tended—and the lion. Member for Callington (Mr. Baring)
put the point with considerable ability that the franchise
was merely the consequence of sonic providential kind of
luck in those towns which had formerly emerged from in-
significance, that it was necessary now to continue the
franchise to those towns, although they bad fallen into a
state of decay, because it produced a happy commingling
of the middle classes with the people of property and the
Aristocracy, and that if the system was changed, the
people of property and the Aristocracy would be wholly
excluded from their share in the representation. Nov I
am bound to say that the union of interests is defeated by
the means which are taken to preserve it ; but I ask how
the system answers at present, and how it is possible
to agree with the arguments founded on those high-
strained hypothetical grounds, which interest has dragged
in to favour its views, but which it is utterly impossible to
feel thoroughly borne out by the facts ? I know what may
be said to a willing audience ; but, suppose the Hon.
Member for Callington was compelled to harangue some
ten thousand of the people of one of the great towns on this
subject, or suppose he was sent to speak it to the mer-
chants on the Exchange of Manchester, what degree
of favour would he receive from his hearers? What did

the Press say on this subject? Why it is unanimous in
favour of the opinion, that it is from the seats thus held
by the nominees of the Aristocracy, that the connection
between the higher and lower clasi,es is endangered, and
that if they were permitted to exist, it must ultimately he
destroyed. This is the universal opinion of the country, al-
though a very different one prevails on the subject here; but
I know the odd tricks that interests will sometimes play,
and how it can be brought to say, and potentially to be-
lieve, that which others consider either impossible or ab•
surd. Bat bow did the Member for Calliogton proceed
with this argument ? He contended that it was a good
thing to continue the connection of the Peers with that
House, lest they should be driven to exercise their naked
influence to a dangerous extent in the affair s of the country.
Now, it happened that the Lords, fortunately for them-
selves, had in England no voice or power except heredi-
tary possessors of property. Their political influence was
of the most limited kind, except they were able to exer•
rise it by the management of a part of the Members of the
House of Common'. In every other point of view they
are merely rich proprietors, possessing no higher political
advantages than other men of property, and, therefore,
the idea of the danger to he apprehended from a disunion
of interests wholly fails when it is subjected to exami-
nation.—(Hear, bear, hear.) But then, it is said that
the Aristocracy of wealth generally, is to have its con-
nection with the House of Commons supported, and
that it is right it should be so. But then I should like
to know what is the meaning of this argument with re-
spect to the aristocracy of wealth, when it is not neces-
sary to have wealth at all to interfere in the affairs of that
House?—and it frequently happens that a man takes from
the owner of borough influence his right for a certain sum,
and afterwards, trailing perhaps on very little capital, he
deals with it as so much stock, and disposes of it among
adventurers, who are frequently ruined by their specula-
tion. Now, I am apt to think that whatever is done in
this country should be done openly and regulated openly,
and that if it was necessary that Peers should have
boroughs, all the world might know it. Every Peer,
for instance, might have two Members if he possessed
10,0001. a year, and every Commoner of 20,0001. might
possess the same number, and thus by a very easy arrange-
ment, which all would understand, the aristocracy of
wealth might be adequately represented, and the arrange-
ments might be rendered much more useful than the ail-
perfect system of molern days. I would allow property
a large and liberal influence in elections ; but I am pre-
pared to contend that the present system, so fir
from giving that influence, produces much less than
it will possess if this measure is carried into-`full
effect.—( Hear, hear. )—The Hon. Member for Calling-
ion, indeed, admitted this himself, when, in alluding to
the Parliamentary influence of the Bedford family, he
said, in spite of the disfranchisement, " I'll wager von
half a crown that the Duke of Bedford's interest in Ta-
ei.ooek will be quite as great as it was before." Under a
better and more liberal system, a liberal, kind, and hos-
,
pliable landlord must always exercise a vast influence
over his immediate neighbourhood, and command the re-
spect and affection of his friends, and connections, and de-
iemlents• but under the present astern he is compelled,
for the purpose of buying that which he means afterwards
to sell, to have recourse to a degrading and contaminating
species of bribery, intimidation, and corruption, disho-
nourable to himself, and deeply injurious to all who are
brought within its influence. But it has been said that
the Blitish Constitution consists of King, Lords, and Com.
mons, duly balanced in power ; and that the proposed
measure will give en improper preponderance to the demo-
cracy. How, I am at a loss to conjecture. Au Hun.
Gentleman his observed, that if we adopt the Bill we
shall throw the whole coninsand of the Legislature into
the hands of the lower class s of tradesmen. Now it must
be recollected that the qualification of voters in towns,
after the present voters have died out, is, that they are to
be householders of 101. a year rent. This new qualifi-
cation, therefore, is in a five-fold ratio greater than
that which has long existed with reference to the
voters in counties. How, then, can it be justly said
that a preponderance is to lie given to the loner or•
ders by this measure?—(Hear.) And, besides, the oppo-
nents of the Bill argue as if the qualification for voters
in towns was never to be above ten pounds; forgetting

that that is td he the lotest quelification. Then tee the
addition that is to be male to the tountfs Members._
Looking at all these circionstanees, I sin at a loss to can-
ceive why any Hon. Member, in the so, it of Prophecy,
or in the spirit of conjecture, sleuth! declare that by what
we now propose to do, we are about to give to the House
of Commons a much more democratised character then
that which it at present poss'es's.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, it
has alw tys appeared to me to he a great mistake to
imagine that the pos e-sion of very large property is likely
to produce in the proprietor a more fervent spirit of
loyalty, or a more ardent aqichment to the ancient insti-
tutions of the country, than that by which his fellow •sub-
jects are distinguished. The sanctity of property is ceta•
dished the iatta But will you sly that the poor man,
who Is ours for ail that lie is lees likely to preserve
that sanctity less likely to obey the law by
which th at sanctity is protected, than the rich man who
spends his days in idleness and ennui 1 It has always
appeared to me that the man who acquires by his own
exertions just enough to seeure to himself a comforable
exivence—the man, for instance, who lives on his free-
hold of terry shillings a year, is the men who is most
likely to IT the true guardian of property, and to rally
round the standard of its defenders.—(Hear.) Just lifted
above the gulf of poverty, such a man feels the real value of
that asylum which his own hands have constructed.—
Proud of the comforts which he has obtained, he looks
down, but with a feeling of affectionate consideration, on
those who arc struggling to aequire a similar station
Such is the person whom a wise and provident Legislature
would wish to attach, and on whom they may place the
firmest reliance to aid them in resisting those, if any such
there be, who are disposed to set the laws at defiance,
and to declare war against property.—(Heir, hear.) No
thinking man can for a moment believe that less layalty to
the King, that less due deference to the Aristocracy', that
less pride in the yaleable inst tutions f the country, will
be felt by the man who has toiled hardly to gain the little
eminence on which he is placed, than by tie(' man who,
although in the highest rank, is probably in possession of
Isss real cajoyment.—(Hear, hear.) I have, therefore,
no distrust, Sir, of men who ry ten pmnufs a year fur
their house rent. If even the proposed proceeding were
rev. red—if, instead ot incressine the quelifiration to ten
pounds, it had originally stood at a huuareil pounds, and
we had reduced it to ten—l should have thought it a per-
fectly seas course. The dismal forebodings of some of the
opponents of the measure, who, anticipating annual Par-
liements and eniversal suffrage, look forward to the de-
struction of the Royal and aristocratical branches of the
State—to an indiscriminate aged: on property—and to a
condition of things very much resembling savat'.' life—np-
pear to me to result from confounding consideratiens
which are totally distinct. There tire two separate
classes of persons in this kingdom who are discontented
with the pressnt state of the repsesentatioa. The first
' consists of a large number of loyal, industrious, and
wealthy individuals who are not in the enjoyment of the
elective franchise. It is very natural that these individuals
should be dissatisfied. Even the Hon. Member for Cal-
lington has admitted that he has frequently on questions
of a commercial or manufacturing character, regre.ted the
absence from the House vf the direct represent itives of
such individuals, from whom much valuable information
might be expected. That such individuals when they find
themselves, although posse,scd not only of ten, but of a
hundred, or ten thousand a year, without the privilege
enjoyed elsewhere by potwallopers should be dissatisfied,
is nut surprising. Is it in human eature that they should
be satisfied ?—(Hear.) Nor is such dissatisfaction um ea-
sonsble. And to what can it lead, but to violent, and
exasperated, and uncharitable feelings towards the Legis-
lature which withholds from such individuals what they
justly conceive to be their right ? And is not this a great
public evil?—(Hear.) The second class of discontented
persona c .nsi•ts Of the great mass of the people. And
here, Sir, I ant perfectly ready to admit—l will not dis-
semble the fact—that attempts are comtintly making to
mis!ead the people by infamous publications, and by
other means of endeavouring to seduce them into the
destruction of property—the corner-stone of the social edi-
ficte—(Hear, heir, hear.) There are, no doubt, persons in
this country who are opposed to all law, who despise all
authority, whrne only object is to evade the one, and to
destroy the other. But will anybody tell me that such
persons form the great body of the petitioners to this
House fir Parliamentary Reform ?—(Hear, hear.)—They
do not came for forty-shilling freeholds, or for any other
qualifications. They care not fOr King, or Lords, or Come
mons. Their maxim is " every man for himself, and
God, or some other being, for us all."—(A laugh.)—
The danger is, however, in letting things remain in such
a state, that the persons to whom I have been alluding
shall have the means of influencing those who ate only
seeking their rights, and of betraying them into the corn-
mission of crime.—(Hear, hear, Lear.)—From the first
hour at which I paid attention to the subject this is the
view which I have taken of it. I have always wished to
separate those who are discontented with a cause from
those who would be discontented without any cause. I

--- -
wish to withdraw every thing that.can justly sour or ag-
gravate the feelings of the former. If, therefore, I ain
asked what evil would resu:t from leaving the represen-
tation in the state in which it is at present, my answer is,

the peril of driving a great part of the population, whose
rights arc neglected, or who will believe that their rights
are neglected, while they are denied the privilege of
sending Members to this House, into the toils of the
enemies of all order, who array themselves against
authority of every description, and of tempting
them to join in loading you with reprobation and con-
tempt.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It is quite true, Sir, that
no Reform will satisfy the actively mischievous and despe-
rate class, whose influence over the better-disposed 1 am
anxious to destroy. Reasonable Reform will not satisfy
the non asonable ; but it will satisfy the reasonable. And
who will deny, that if you satisfy the reasonable, and in-
dove them to unite with you, you will not be better able
to deal with the unreasonable?—(Loud cries of " hear,
heir, hear.") The danger of neglecting to do this is immi-
nent. What I want is to render the large body of the
people interested in obeying the law, and zealous in de-
fending the institutions of the country. In such a course
as that I can see no danger whatever. On the contrary,
I think that the good which it is calculated to effect is
extensive and certain. If you add live hundred thousand
persons to those who are at present privileged to exercise
the elective franchise—and be it remembered, that the
least qualification of those persons is to be ten pounds,
but the qualification of most of theta will be much more
considerable—you will form a phalanx in support of the
law which it will be impossible to overthrow. In another
point of view, such a change will be eminently beneficial.
It will put an end to much of that unseemly neglect of the
lower classes by the higher, which at present exists. It
will make the latter entertain a greater sympathy for the
sufferings of the people. It will make them more cornie-
st-ending, less contemptuously indifferent in private life
towards their iaferiots. And does nut every one see how
much this will improve the character of all clasees_
how much more closely it wi I draw those bonds by which
society is held together.— (Hear.) If I understood the
Hen. Member for Preston, whose constituents are princi-
pally paupers and potwallopers, he thinks the qualification
of ten pounds a great deal too high ; and he ;;ski why the
qualification of four or five pounds would not render persons
as good Members of the constituent body? Let the case be
supposed of an individual who has approached the legal
qualification so nearly as nine pounds. Is no good to lie
expected from the effort to make the next and last step ?
For soy own part, I think it highly advantageous that a
I age class of the people should thus have always something
in prospect. It tends to secure property ; and if pro-
perty be secure, all will be safe. The extremes of the
different arguments used by the opponents of the pro-
hile some express their upper-
posed measure meet. W
hen-ion of the deluge of constituency which they say
will overflow the land, others lament the deprivation to
which the successors of the existing potwallopers will
be subjected. They say that a general sympathy will
be excited for their fate. Bec I confess 1 ant at a loss
to see why it should be a source Of discontent to people
in a similar class of society in the county of Surrey, or
the county of Lincoln, that potwallopers in the borough
of Preston, or in any other borough, shall no longer be
allowed to exercise the elective franchise. The first of
all the benefits, however, which I expect from this mea-
sure is that it will remove the causes of that general dis-
content which might otherwise graduate first into disaffec-
tion, and then perhaps into insurrection.—(Rear, hear.)
To gratify the wishes of the people is to give them enjoy-
ment; and if the enjoyment be innocent of its kind, they
ought to have i'. sir, I will not enter into the history of
past Parliament, ; but there is one principle which all
liaments ought to keep in view with reference to the
t). ople who live under their protection—it is to give the
Par-
liament. By public opinion I do not mean popular in-
dignation or clamour. But can it be denied by any man
who is consistent with Parliamentary history that abuses
have frequently been habitually persevered in, in conse-
quence of the too small influence of l üblic opinion on the
legislative body? Is it not true that in consequence of
this fact wars have been generally protracted long after
the people have wished for peace?—(llear.)—ls it not
true that in consequence of this fact the most offensive aP-
-1 plications have been made of the public money ?—(Hear.)
Is it not true that smith abominations as the slave trade
have been continued for years after their condemnation

by public opinion ?—(llear, hear, hear.)—ls it rot true
that in uce of the little influence of sculdie
Opinion, on ilatiliaments the cared :ion of the abioes it:
the Crutfinal Lsw have hec sei !Ong delayed ?—( Ilear.
hear, hear.)---Sir, there is rio evil so greet, as has
been well said by the Right Hon. Member for Windsor,
there is nothing so calculated to Mere i'e general di•con.
tent, as to delay that which must eventually be performed.
In such a case the recoil of public opinion is powerful ;
and a character of tenor is added to that demsnd, a com-
pliance with which, in the first instinct., would hive
been considered as an act of grace. Can it b., doubted.
Sir, that a Reform in Parliament, in requiring which so
ereat a multitude concur, is one of those points on which
delay ought no It-roger to be permitted ? When the engine
is shaking with the violence of its motion, anal in danger
of Intestine', the part of wisdom is tic ease it, and to give
it a more steady and equable force. I do tint mean to say
that a Reform of Parliament is a pituacea for all the evils
under which this country labours. They ate soischievous
pretenders,
and designing misteachers of the people who
say so.—(hear, hear.) But 1 say that it will great'y
it-litigate those evils ; and that it will produce a better un-
&standing between the rulers riiil those whom they
govern. Is the demand fier Reform now raised leer the
first time ? Is it acciderstal ? It is quite true that such a
demand is most loud in a period of general distress. But is
it not also true that the feeling which prompts it is never
extinct, and that after any temporary suspension, it re-
vives like a giant refreshed by sleep, and :assumes a
louder and more powerful tone ? It h is been said, that
it the elective franchise of East Retlord hail been trans-
ferred to Birmingham, we ahould not, on this day, h the
been discussing the question of a general Parliamentary
Reform. It may lee so ; for when the cup is full, a single
;additional drop will necessarily cause it to overflow.
Glowing embers, though conceded under ashes, may sud-
denly ba fanned into a consuming flame. It appears to
me that three circumstances have concurred to produce
the strong feeling which hag of late manifested itself
throng the country in favour of Parliamentary R. firm.
The proceedings respecting East Retford; in which the
reasonable hopes of the people were disappointed, and they
were not allowed to have even a crumb from the table.
Then, the transactions respecting Newark—then the man-
ner in which the representations from Scotland—repre-
sentations from 7,000 or 6,000 individuals hare been
long hung up, and unattended tee. These occasioned a
growing discontent, and that may he converted Icy delay
into despair, and then the feelings of resentment and of
vindictiveness may arise. After this discontelit is kllo`.ll
it is impossible tee say that the fe• ling of Scotland is not
in its favour. But, Sir, beyond all this, and after all
this, there came the petition with 19,000 names, consist-
big of the wealth of the canntry, and of the intelligence
and respectability of the country, and half of these names
were the names of men who had never before been con-
cerned in meetings of this sort. I know this, Sir, front
experience, I can speak from personal knowledge. It is my
duty tee inquire into the state of the country, and it is
from the knowhilge which that inquiry gives me, that I
verrure to speak. Scotland is at present quite loyal, it is
free from disorder, and is not discontented ; these have
been as yet no such attacks on property, no such machine-
breaking as in this country; the people there have re-
mained es yet unaffected with that bane and venom which
it has sometimes been the palicy, the mistaken policy, of
governments to spre lei among them.—(Cheers from It
sides of the House.)—The proof of my assertion of the
degree of intelligence among the people, whose demands,
whose just demands we are called on to refuse, is strongly
afforded by a circumstauce which 1 shall now mention.
Some gentlemen in Glasgow agreed at a meeting, there to
publish, for the con ectiain of that error—that fatal error—
which set the machine-breakers of England at work, a
small tract, composed from the report of a Committee on
the subject of the employment of machinery, and that tract
began with the examination of two starving mechanics
from Glasgow, out of whose inautlis the souadest sense
was delivered, who advocated in the strongest manner the
use, not the soepression of maeliite ry, and who looked
to frugality and perseverance alone to remedy the evils
under which they then suffered.—(Cheers.) There is
one other benefit that a Reform in Parliament will confer
on us. I bad forgotten it in the proper place, but it is of
importance enough to justify my introducing of it here.—
(Hear, hear.) It is this, that the class of persons who
are suffering from distress, and I urn afraid that at
all times distress will be felt more or less by some
classes ; but these persons, when they know that they
have cent persons to this House who avid lel true sym-
pathy for their sufferings, anti who will indefatigably,
bravely, and zealously advocate their cause, will cease to
to think that that distress has arisen solely from the mis-
government and oppression of their rulers.—(Cheers.)—
They will not now take your worth; fir that fact—(Hear,
hear)—while you exercise a power over which they deem
they ought to posisess a greater degree of controul; but
when they learn, from those in whom they have placed
their willing confidence, that there are re.isons far that
distress, reasons which not the best-directed wisdom could
avert, they will learn to hear the evils they suffer with
patience, they will talk with patience of their distress,
they will submit quietly, though now they feel a degree
of resentment for evils which they think are partly
at least inflicted by you.—(Hear, hear.)-1 think that
there is no man who will deny these are among the bene-
fits of a Reformed Parliament. I trust, from the fact of
the Hon. Member for Preston being in the House, that
part of the good has already been attained ; indeed, I be-
lieve it has, for lie himself has recently stated that he has
found in this House a greater degree of tenderness fur the
people, a greater concern for their welfare, than he hail
before expected to discover here.---(" No, no !" from Mr.
Hunt—much laughter.)—l ant sorry the Hon. Member
retreats front the point to which he had advanced—that he
now takes up a different ground frotn that which he for-
merly occupied ; but I hope he will stay here long enough
for us to teach him better. He will admit, however,
that whether we go as far as he thinks we ought in listen-
ing to the claims of the rights of the people, we at least
do not talk of them with cruelty, but with considerate,
with great, though it may be with misdirected kindness.
(Hear, hear, hear, from Mr. Hont)—and no doubt he
will repeat it faithfully tee toose who sent him here, and •
will, besides, speak it tee those over whom lee possesses more
authority than is possessed by any other Member.—
(Hear, hear.)-1 will now say a few words on the subject
of intimidation. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
has reproached us m an eloquent and pathetic speech,
that we do not submit our fears to argument, but our
arguments to fear—that we take counsel of the alarm we
have ourselves raised—and that we have rushed on des-
perate,afraid of the " sounds ourselves have madi." I wish
the House had been told by the Right Hon. Gentleman
the difference between our intimidation and that which is
proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman himself. The
difference between tor is this—we are afraid to refuse the
just prayer of the people as expressed in their petitions__
they are afraid to do an act of justice—(Hear)—for fear
the concessions of just rights may, by the perversion of all
moral feelings, be made the ground for unjust demands.--
(Hear, hear.)—it certainly conies to this, and this alone,
which is the ultimate ground of their refusal, namely, the
Right Hon. Gentleman says, in fact, at least, " 1 am
of the dangers and evils that, by some indescribable
and 'ldltinexplained process, will ensue from the granting of
just rights," fur the rights are just, and no man pretends
to deny their justice. The people claim these rights, and
the only answer proposed to be afforded them is, " I will
not move from the position in which I am now," and that
answer will produce the greatest of evils, the curse of
popular disaffection. The Right Hon. Gentleman said,
.. a am afraid, for fear that an indication of firmness in
the allowance of a just desire will compel me afterwards
to accede to the wishes of unjust men." Tee diatim titan
between Sir, is that we are erail to refuse an act of
justice, they
y aro afraid to grant it.—(Cheers.)—l beg, Sir,
to offer to the House my hearty thanks for the extraordi-
nary indulgence with which they have listened to this im-
perfect attempt to deliver my sentiments on this most im-
portant question—a task front which one so new to the
House might well have shrunk, but from his confidence
in the exercise of that indulgence which be so much re-
quired. —(Much cheering.)
Mr. HUNT nise to explain. As so direct an allusion
had been made to him, and as it had been stated that he
was returned by paupers and potwallopers, he wished to
observe, that had the Hon. and Learned Gentleman known
something of our laws, he would have known that paupers
could not vote at an election.—(Hear, bear.)—It had fur-
ther been stated, that he had drawn a line about the right
to vote at elections, and that he had said property should
be represented. That was a mistake. His principle was, that
every man who was liable to be drawn for the Militia, and
consequently to
fight for his country, had a just right to
vote tor the representatives of the country.—(Cheers.)
Mr. CROKER said, that independently of any other
circumstances, his rising to address the fullest House he
had ever witnessed at that late period of a protracted de-
bate, was a circumstance which lie wits aware loudly
called for their indulgence. But, on the present occasion,
lie partieularly
tt that :
ea
rt c I us
were
ee
rvee r
a benbu 'i required the exercise of their patience and
indulgence,
etsd,
While he endeavoured to give his opinion upon
this most important subject ; and if he was not convinced,
and did not feel that it was the most important question
agitated
ptateectistotniatl:inretasheonwsaltlshoatf twh,tioutlldlohu:tee,
forbidden his 8 e b akinss hear.)—lle .—(Hear, had listened
to
with delight pthe eloquent and ingenious speech of the

Learned Lord opposite—he felt delight at the tioupiere,
and ingenuity of it : but he calif coed that there was mo
part of that Learned Lord's adrire's which he thought
[nicht have been spered to that House. He did not third
that it Iva, either Parli;:'merrt,;•:7 nr rrotrient in the Learned
Lord to pass art insinotafion against gentlemen
took th'eoplio,6l.. sid,, of the question, as if they were per-
"n'l:•liri wcreith'ead'v Stigin:tl-2:ed a, beinic Memb Ts of
those corrupt placer? whiA ti-ete atiout to be disfranchised,
ind who Were only plead,ing theft. by sufr,rance, and ask-
ing for a long delay. (Cheers and laught6'r.)' The Noble and
Learned Lord. who was a great Ir al authoritv, had tole
them that even the strict rides of the Courts of Law
would exclude from this discu-sion the majority, nay, al
most the whole, of the opponents to the Noble I,rd%
propo,ition. li could tea that Learned Lord, that Ow
was not the I re of P trliament nor of common eensc—
(Cheis)—and he would also tell the Le timed Lord, that
though he would harc overlooked the obser,-a•lon from
an inferior authority, and tr .ated it with what it better
desert-id than an answer—(Order, order)—the learned
Lord's situation repired a reply ; and he would take the
liberty to all, that if he was hl.ll pri4cd at such an observa-
tion from one of the Learn d Lord's pto:-es,iou. lr
was doubly surprised at it as coinhoz from one in the
situation id the Ler;rned Lord, whose sole see; in that
Howe was from a place of the su.rt now to be di-fran-
eloned—(Cheers)—and, as he haul been min by die
phtin, hottest, straight!brward Member far Preston, it was
suspected to be more than fictitious.
:Ir. KENNEDY rose to orde-. It was, he bel'eved
the fact, that there teas a peti•ion against the return of
the Lord Advocate, but he put it to the Speaker—lie put
it to the House—whether it was usnal or orderly fir any
Hon. 3lember, even of the authority- of the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite, thus to anticipate the decision of the
House upon that petition.
Toe SPEAKER—If I could hive seen or en 'erstood
the observathm oldie Right Hon. Gentleman at all in the
li4lot in which it is seen by the Hon. Metn',er, I hope I
should not have been. backward in calling the ltiOtt lion.
Gentleman to order. I will now tithe the liberty of stating
why I did not interfere. From the troderstan ling I bail
of the expression, and of the intention wit', which it was
employed, I unde.rstoA the Right Hon. Gentleman, to
complain of the assertion made by the Lratned Lord, that
certain :Memb,rs of that House were disqualified from
stating their opinion on this subject because they sit for
those seats which are about to be comprehended in ti e
Bill. That was, as I understood, the ob•ervation of tl:e
Right lion. Gentleman; and further, that not only the
Learned Lord was seated as a representative of line of those
places,
but that there was this peculiarity in his ease, that
his seat was contested.—(Hear, hear.)—l mean only that
he intended to state the seat to be contested by pad-
' Lion. I do not conceive that what fell from the Right
Hon. Gentleman called for interruption from me, or that
it affected to give a determination or decision on the
merits of this petition, much less that. it (lid so with a
view of influencing the feelings of this House.
Lord JOIN RUSSELL said th it he should not, have
risen on this point of order, if his apprehension of the mat-
ter had liven the some as that of the Speaker. A. the
Speaker understood the Right Hon. Gentleman only to
state that there was a petition against the return of the
Learned Lord, h., must venture to say that ti e Si.eaker
had somewhat mimnderstood the Right Hon. Gentleman,
whose real words were, that the seat of the Learned Lord
was " suspect,d ofbeing more than fictitious.--(Hear.)
It did appear to him that these words ought not to have
le.qm ti,eol with regar I to the seat of any I,lember whose
case was afterwards to be tried before the selected indges
of an Election Committee, anti that, therefore, his Hon.
Friend's (objection on the paint of order was right.
Mr. KENNEDY said, if he owed an apology to the
Speaker or to the House, he should be most ready to make
it ; but all he said, with the utmost decry/ace to the
Speaker's authority, which no one could respect more than
himself, Mrs, that there was a great distinefon between the
Learned Lord's ob!erration upon the principle applicable
to the seats of others who were acknowledged Members of
that House, and the Right Hon. Gentleman's reference to
the Learned Lord's seat, which he represented, not as lying
under a general, hut under a particular disability, which
particular disability was yet to come under the decision of
a Committee of that Hone.

Mr. CHOKER proceeded—Hi: wiehed the Hon. Mem-
ber had been more vigilant before, and would be more vi-
gilant hereafter, on the point of order ; and when he heard
repeated, as no doubt he would do, that they sat there as
fictitious representatives of the people—(llear, hear, hear)
—his legal knowledge, his personal candour, and his Par-
liamentary jealousy, might induce him to interfere.—
(Hear, and laughter.) The most remarkable part of the
speech of the Learned Lord was the boldness with which
he assailed, and the ability with which he overcame, the
propositions contained in the speech of the Noble- Lord
who had introduced the motion. The Learned Lord be-
gait by asking whether it was possible that they could, at
this time of day, devote their consideration to questions
stated so long ago as the time of the Tudors, and the later
Stuarts and whether they did not know, that within the
last 25, or at the utmost, 40 rears, new lights and new
principles had got abroad—new elements of consideration
had been opened, and on this experience of the last forty
years they were called on to decide? But the Noble Lord
went back, not only to the Tudors and Stuarts, but to the
times of Edward the First, and even to the Statute de
Tollagio non concedendo ; and at the close of the Noble
Lord's speech, he had implored them to revert to the an-
cient Constitution of their ancestors. It was true, indeed,
that subsequently the Noble Lord was conic with a better
sight, and till them of the French revolution, the 11, Igian
revolution, and of the bl tsphemy that was :broad, of the
spirit of spoliation—of the extraordinary excitement of
the lower classes, which excitement he proposed to allay
by—every kind of encouragement.—(Hear, bear, and
laughter.) Ile could make the mob quiet by giving them
brandy.—( Hear, hear, bear.) The Learned Lord
showed that they were obliged to make these concession*,
he bad told them in pl do terms, that they were compelled
by necessity. He had told them that in the petitions of
the supplicating and urgent people, these concessions were
dem inded—he had told them to look at these petitions,
and they would see that they did not curiae from the dan-
gerous classes alone, but kern those more favoured orders
of society which the Bill of the Noble Lord was to call
into life and activity, and that unless they complied with
these petitions they would encounter great perils and risks.
Now he (Mr. Croker) should like to ask the Learned Lord
whether he h id ever read these petitions. He (Mr. C.
was sorry to say he had real two or three hundred of
them for the purpose for which he would now produce
them, and he dated the gentlemen opposite, front the
tribes of these petitions which they wielded as arms against
those on that side of the House, to produce any from which
it appeared that the people would be satisfied with the
meeasure of the Noble Lord.—(Hear.) Of the many
hundreds that he had read, there were only two or three
which did not demand infinitely more than the Nolde Lord
was willing to concede. These two or three were, in•
deed, distinguished by a happy generality that left them to
expect anything or nothing. lie would select one of these,
because it was well and moderately worded, and afforded
the best specimen of the sort of demands made by the people.
It was the petition from -Merthyr Tydvil. That town was a
large manufacturing place, with a numerous and intelligent
population. The petition asked for four things. The first was
the righe—the just right (as they termed it), of having all
placemen dismissed from the House of Commons.—( Hear,
hear, hear, from, Mr. hunt, Mr. O'Connell, and Sir R.
Peel.) Tie second was for the right of Annual, or at
most Triennial, Parliament.--(Hear.) The third was
the only point that the measure of the Not le Lord met,
and that was, the right of having all the large towns and
populous districts represented in the House of Commons,
and that those places which cattle within the class of close
and decayed borough=, containing few inhabitants, should
be disfranchised.—(Loud cheers.) The fourth claimed
the right of every man to vote at elections, who was called
on in any way to contribute either to national or local
t txation, directly or indirectly.—(Hear, hear.) " These
are," said the petitioners, " the principal rights which we
at present (leeward." All the others, or at least the ma-
jority of them, used the same language: and when the
Learned Lord answered the Hon. Member for Pres-
ton, who objected to the limitation of 101. a year as a
qualification for a voter, he said it was necessary, because
some line must be drawn. lie thought that a rational
reply. That line, however, must be arbitrary—it must
be subject to the discretion of those who drew it, and for
that reason he knew not a better than that drawn by the
petitioners, for there was some foundation for that in the
ancient Constitution of the country, and it did not seem
to be drawn arbitrarily and without reference to prin-
ciple. Their principle was, that every man who was
called on to contrilsute to the exigencies of the Stare
should have a right to vote. He said, therefore, that the
measure, so far from satisfying the petitioners, would
but increase the alarm and disappointment of the people.
The Learned Lord said that mischief and discontent would
follow tire loss of. this measure, and that these would arise
from a refusal of just rights. He asked what would occa-
sion them? The answer might be left to the Nohle Lord
who introduced the measure. In alluding to the argu-
ment of a Right Hon. Friend of his (Mr. Croker)—the
argument of Mr. Canning—that the people were not
anxious for Parliamentary Reform, he said that he and his
friends had called on the people, who had answered the
appeal. This was a subject that was rankling in every

tnan's Uartasseeant tefras hnt On his. tongue—that armed
hand against the constituted authorities. That had le en
the state ofhe question till the Nobte Loin? bad snort
thtie hopee into life, or, 83 his Noble Friend (Lord Pal-
mer-ton) haetssaid, till he had aroused those hopes from the-
clamber innesliich they had long lain. He would Pee ho..n
far this was Onens.e out by the fact. In 1821 there ?gene
nineteen petigiona fon Reform ; in 1522, there w .eveee.
twelve; in 1823, there were twenty.nine; in 1821, theieseae,
were none; in 1825, none ; in 18.26, none—(l-le
in 1827, none—(Hear)—in 1828, none—(Hear).—in eai
1829, still none—(Cheers)—in the Session of 1830.
there were fourteen—(A laugh)—and then came the
dissolution of Parliament. The Noble Lord and the
eeveral Gentlemen who were with him, then went
down to the General Election under eircurmtancen
which gave them no reason whatever to expect on
hope that they should be in their present situation ;
they accordingly looked about. for a political lever—
(Cheers)—to move the then existing Government, and
oil the hustings, from bow-windows, and from their dif-
ferent abodes in all parts of the country they addr as. 11
the people on the subject. The people answered the ap-
peal of the Noble Lord, and 650 petitions were the result.
(Cheers.)—He had not looked through the 650 eetitintas,
fur he had not looked through those pianented on t-seturdny
Het, when the House sat for the r special purplee of re-
ceiving them; but in the others, at leant in the majerity
of them, there was hardly one in one of the pen..
minent demands of the people Via* not for the atorlition of
tithes.—(Bear.)—From this Incas of petitions lie would
take one, and begged to read it ,to the Boone.—(l'he Hen.
Member then read a petition from Cckerninoth, and coin-
merited upon its various prayers, which extend ad t en
mariner of Reform, as he proceeded.)—Did the First
Lord of the Admiralty, he asked, fancy that the measures
he proposed would satisfy such extensive claimants ?
(Hear, hear, hear.)—The Bill, be contended, so far
from being popular in its character, created no new right
while it destroyed many which bad heretofore existed.—
The scot and lot payers—the pot-wallopers, and those
coj Lying burgage tenure—were utterly disregarded.—
It was proposed to deprive these men of their fran-
chise, while it was, at the same time, intended to intro-
dune a measure untried and unexampled in the righe
of election. He most strenuously opposed the limiting
of the right of voting to those who rented a ten-pound
house. He had always considered that the great variety
ire this franchise, and the conseptently great variety in the
modes by wb:nh men:could enter that House, was one of the
pecular advantages of the Constitution. Now the effect
tre
of the Noble Lord's reeasure would be, to place the power
of electing represent 4t es exclusively in the hinds of one
particular class.—(l4tt: hear.) The present representa-
tive system might die eobeecteci to as complex ; but its
complexity was likeeVae complexity in the system of the
in appearance-, lint within
universe,—it was complex only
it worked in the most beautiful girder.__( Hear, hear.) it
appeared, he stated, from the returns laid before the
House, that there were in all 378,000 honees in England
and Wales, and that if they were divided into sixteen
classes, the three last of these cl ;sees would ce-asist of
250,000. Thus it'clearly appeared, that according to the
new system, property would not be frilly repreeenteil.—
This was in England ttoej Scotland it ,vould be
much tors •. Noble Lord, in tire explenation of his
plan, decherel that it was necessary, in He granting of the
elective franchise, that some hoe elloold he di ine n.
Let them, then, observe the extraordinary effects of the
line the Noble Lord had med.. He drew his first line
without assigning any reason for it, excepting the sic
vllo, sic jubro ; and by this he disfranchised all bo-
roughs consisting of less than two thousand inhabitants.
He then drew his second line in like manner, with-
out assigning any reason ; and here, in his magnificent
generosity, giving a single Aleinber to these boroughs with
a population under 2,000, he declares that those having
more than 4,000 may have two Members. The third
line was at 10,000, and the fourth at 20,000. Now,
mink hove they dealt with them. To all places haying
10,000 inhabitant~ they gave one Member, as before ; and
to those having 20,000, they gave the same number as to
Knareshorough and to Tavistock. How the Noble Lord
could account for this I.e really did not know. He could
nut conceive how, proceeding according to his arithmetical
princi,des, the Noble Lord could defend the practice of
giving one representative to boroughs having inhabitenta
above 2,000, when he went, in the creation of electoral
rights, upon the principle that ore representative was suf-
ficient f r 10,000 persons.—(lleer.) Those happy'
ho-
roughs—those thriving places, which had 4,000 inha-
bitants, were to be saved from confiscation, and enmity the
rights of returning ene Member to Parliament, while Bole
ton, with its 21,000 inhabitant', could du no more. He
did not mean to impute any improper motives to the Noble.
Lord, hut certainly the litre he drew teas in some re-
greets ixtraordinary. There was the rine of the boroughs
of ninon, in Yorkshire ; the House would Is'
astonished and amused to perceive how nicety the
line was drawn in respect of this borough. The in-
htbitanta of Melton precisely numbered 4,005__
(Cheers)—an I thus, while the rest of tine country
was disfertnehised--while all the counties (excepting a faw
of tine manufacturing counties in the north) were cur-
tailed of their fair proportion, and amputated in their
limbs, the fortunate borough of 'Mahon escaped unscathed.
(Lord J. Russell Irene pointed to a book on the table.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman—oh doubtless, the Noble
Lord is a great law giver, and the population returns are
his pandccts. That volume formed the condex of the new
Justinian.—(Cheers and leughter.) The great advantage
of the present system appeared to be, that eery place had,
as it were, its local jurisdiction, but the new Justinian was

desirous of dcstroying all tl‘i,.—(flear, hear.) lie re-
gardol this as a most flagr.int proceeding, and was desirous
that more information should be given before the House

came to a decision. The Nohle Lord, however, wondered
when more information was called for, and sjid to them,
Saut out an illumination excepting that proceeding from
my farthing candle, and you will bring in a lil..ze of light
which will blind the country, and it it will see nothing.--
(Cheers and laughter.) The Noble Lord said, with
treat gravity, that all the information which could lie de-
sired was on the table.—(Hear, from the Treasury benches.)
The small return, lie maintained, showed niithing.
(Cheers.) Touching the borough of Malton, he again re-
marki•d how felicitous it was in having the Noble Lord's
hie drawn so near, and yet so conveniently distant. Mal-
ton contair.e 14005 inhabitants, and of them, be under-
stood f oin a gentlem .n who had once represented the
place, tl e number of votes was about 500,—(Hear hear. )
Happy Lord Fitzwidiam, who amidst the general wreck,
could maintain his patronage uninjured ! Happy for it the
power of exciting influence in the r. turn of Tien-viers to
Parliament was now considered matter of such great im-
portance when shared amidst a couple of hundred persons,
how much greater would it not he when the power was
restricted to a few.—(Cheers.) How extensive then
would net be that power of the leviathan of aristocracy
who was suffered to retain his authority at Illaltrin.—(oh,
oh !) He meant nothing disrespectful to Lard Fiiewilliam,
who was the most amiable of men. He begged rather to
be understood as alluding to a future Lord
and he contended, that the smaller was the number of
the se who retained their influence, the greater would be
the power of each individual. The Noble Lord's plait
was contrary to all principle.; of sense an:l equity, and
even of arithmetic, on which he seemed particularly to
pride himself. Let them look to the North Riding of
Yorkshire, there 'Mahon, anti Richmond, and Third:,
having in all 10,084 inhabitants, returned four Members
to Parliament, and ths was at the rate of a reoresentatia
to every 2,500 votirs. But, now, let them hail to the
West Riding, and take there Huddersfield, and Halifax, and
Wakefield, which bad an acgregitte population of 36,000
persons, and the House would be surprised to hear they
hail only three representatives.—(Cheer,,.) He would tell
the Noble Lord he would be compelled to explain this fact,
ta the country..—(Loud cheers.) lie made a great and
grave charge against him : that he had net duly consi-
dered the principle of the measure he proposed. It
was a measure whisk proceeded upon the basi,r, par,
as was asstrted, of remoleliing, but of reconstructing tho
iastitutions of the country.--(Cheers.)—hie would next
advert to Calm., which had never been more distinguished
than by the area of ice presetat representative. The
House, he had no doubt, would be surprised to hear
how Caine was described in the vindects—the Magna
Charta of the Noble Lord. It was mentioned as the
boroua,l; of Caine and the liberties of Baw-wood.—(Great
returned
ktr rl'idat eight
ivould he the result 'Members to Parliament. Now, he
. ght
laughter and cheering.)—Now, Caine anti the liberties
of Bow-wood had precisely 4,600 inhaiitants ; Tavistock
had 4,508, and taking them with Bedford and Knares-
borough, they rivide %II average of 19, WO iithabitants,
t‘
t h
it all these borough!s
fell into a sitiele thing not impossible, fix al.
though liilliCUlt to influence a borough containing 15,000
souls, it was by no means so, and required no very exten-
sive property in the neighbourhood to possess uncontrolable
power over a place in which the inhabitants did not num-
ber
more than 5,000.—(11ear.) Tke House, he begged,
would observe, that Blackhurne. which had five times the
population of Tavistoek, twits yet to have only erne Member,
and Bolton, which had twenty-two thousand inhabitant",
would have, in like s •rt, but one Member, avbri;etittri;
ford returned two.—(Hear.)
thousand inhabitants, would have
,or 0„y
therefore, would be no better etc' than
t t.
hat I
ther
e
remained f,r him to 11,1 d, u t
this
p oinft