The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-11 00:00:00

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lostance. 'be Right Hon. Gentleman had a ,•licrt .
a nee obrxvverl upon the impropriety of discussions of this
Boit ire he absence of full information 'on the subject.
Now one of these matters had, on a former occasion, been
befrvre the House, and inquiries had been despatclred to
Ireland, and this discussion was again introdncea before
t-rto.ire was a possibility of getting an ans Wee to them. The
Ise of Kilkenny was that to ,:',•hich he alltuled; and
Alioult it was known that 7...ntrrers could not yet have been
received, yet were thest attacks made day by d iy, without
riving the Government time to obtain those explanations,
which, when procured, wauld, lie trusted, be found quite
!satisfactory ; hut which, if -they .did not prove 80j he
sir u trot wish to be concleslve; for there was no man
in that. House who Nik-cold be wore eager than himself to
fvvrvent the recurrence of any improper interference in the
-administration of justice.—(Hear, hear.) With respect
the prest.nt recommendation of the Right Hon.. Gen-
Iletuan to grant a Committee of Inquiry, he must 'expre.gsi
his derided opinion that, not only a plausible, but-a very
strong case indeed, ought to be made out, before it was re-
ferred to a Committee of that House, to revise a decision
of a Court of Justice.—(Bear, hear.) If there was rtay-
thing improper in the proceeding, he did not think a Com-
mittee of that House the proper tribunal to decide upon
it ; but he was of opinion that the remedy ought to pro-
ceed from the Government in their executive capacity.

Sir R. PEEL had not intended to recommend that. a
judicial decielon should be submitted to a Committee of
that House. The charge was, that the early forms of the
proceedings had been corrupted by the interference of the
Goverr,ment,Officers. He recommended a Committee to
inquire into that subject.
After a few words from Sir J. M. Davtt, the petition
was laid upon the table.
Mr. BROWNLOW was surprised at some of the ob
servations which had fallen from the Nebi Lord (the
Member for Northamptonshire) on the subject of this peti-
tion. The Noble Lord had desired them to pause before
they introduced poor laws into Ireland ; and had alleged
that by the introduction of these laws, they would but
disturb the charitable feeling of the ditrfrent classes there.
There was no ground whatever for such an alarm ; but
unless a measure of that sort was introduced, that cha-
ritable feeling would be •of little avail. IO the present
state of Ireland, the whole weight of the support of
the poor fell upon the middle classet, and upon those
of the labouring classes, only just above the .pop•
themselves. This was a great grieVartee and injus-
tice ; and it was a matter of serious complaint In the peo-
- which he had
.had the honour to present to the
House. The petitioners urged the House to take the weight
of the burden of• maintaining the poor off the shoulders
of the labouring classes; on whom it now entirely rested,
and put it upon the rich. He supported the prayer of
that petition, and called upon the House to take the bur-
den from the labour and industry of the country and put
it upon property—to make the property of Ireland re-
sponsible for the poverty of Ireland. When they heard,
as they had done lately, that where 80,0001. was drawn
from Ireland, only SOL bad been subscribed by the hard-
hearted absentees to relieve the distresses of the people,
there could be but one feeling that some measure was ne-
cessary to compel those persons to contribute to the relief
of the distresses of those hard-worked labourers from whose
industry they obtained their own enormous wealth.
Mr. O'CONNELL, notwithstanding what had been
said, felt himself hound in duty, every day, to press the
subject of the administration of justice in Ireland upon the
attention of the House. It was very well for Ministers to
assume a haughty tone, but it would be much better if
they took some steps to remedy the grievances of Ireland.
Eight human lives had been lost, and not a policeman had
been removed.

Mr. STANLEY begged leave to contradict the Hon.
Member; in point of fact, every policeman engaged in
the affair had been removed from the county.
Mr. O'CONNELL—That the Right Hon. Gentleman
was pleased to call a contradiction in point of fact / The '
men might have been removed to another county, but
they had not been removed from the police ; they were
retained to shoot more of the King's suhjects.—(Cheers.)
Government had promised a great deal for Ireland, and
performed nothing.
Mr. WAYLAND vindicated the lower orders of Eng-
land against the charges brought against them on the sub-
ject of the Poor Laws, and contended that in England there
were as many absentee proprietors as in Ireland ; the dif-
ference was, that in England absentees were made to sup-
port the poor out of their property, in Ireland they con-
tributed nothing ; hence the poor in England were con-
tented, and in Ireland always ripe for disturbance.
Mr. SAILER contended that the time was come when
Government ought to act, and not to deliberate.
It was then ordered that the petition be printed.
SLAVERY.
Mr. BRISCOE (before the House went into a Com-
mittee on the Reform Bill) wished to ask the Noble Lord
whether what be had seen in the public Journals was
true, viz.—that Ministers had sent out directions to the
Governor of Berhice and other colonies, for the immediate
liberation of the slaves?

Lord ALTHORP had beard nothing of the suhject till
now ; but could venture to say, in the absence of the
Noble Under-Secretary for the Colonies, that there was
not the slightest truth i❑ the statement.

REFORM.

Lord ALTHORP moved that the House resolve itse:
into the Committee on the Reform Bill. On the question
that the Speaker leave the Chair,
Sir F. BLAKE took occasion to complain of the man •
nee in which his constituency of Berwick-upon-Tweed
would be reduced by the Bill, and to recommend that
three neighbouring places be added to it in order to com-
pensate the borough for what it would lose.
The. SPEAKER then left the chair, and the House re-
solved itself into the Committee.
Mr: F. LEWIS referred to what had passed last night
relative to the parish of Presteign, part of which was in
Wales and part in Herefordshire. He wished that part
which- was in Herefordshire to he excluded from the
operation of the Bill.
Lord ALTHORP was desirous to hear the reasons for
the change before he consented to it.
Mr. F. LEWIS said that the inhabitants of that por-
tion of Presteign which was in I lerefordshire were merely
rural, had no sympathy with Wales, and did not wish to
be included.
Lord ALTIIORP added, that if such were the case he
should have no objection to except it.
Mr. WYNN called the attention of the Noble Lord to
the fact, that a large part of Wrexham consisted merely of
rural population, and that the population of the town only
ought to be admitted.
Sir-E. LLOYD said a few words on the same point.
The question was then put, that that part of the parish
of Presteign which was situated in the county of Hereford
should not be included in schedule F. The amendment
was agreed to.
The question wa4 then put severally upon the four first
divisions of schedule F, including various Welsh towns, to
share in representation with Beaumaris, Cardigan, Caer-
marthen, and Caernarvon. When the Chairman as rived at
the question that Ruthin, Holt, and Wrexham share with
Denbigh,
Sir W. W. WYNN was understood to repeat the objec-
tion previously stated by Mr. Wynn, as to the admission of
the rural population of Wrexham.
'r. Alderman WAITHMAN, on the other hand, argued
(if we heard him rightly) that the whole population of
Wrexham ought to be embraced by the measure.
After a-few further remarks across the table, in a tone
of vaice quite inaudible, from Mr. C. Pelham, Sit W.W.
Wynn, Mr. Goulhurn, Lord Althorp, Mr. Kenyon, and
Mr. Wynn, the amendment was agreed to for- including
(we believe) the whole parish of Wrexham ; and the
original question that Ruthin, Holt, and the parish of
Wrexham share with Denbigh was put and carried.
The next question was that Rhyddlan, Overton, Garwis,
Caergonly, St. Asaph, Holywell and Mold sharing with
Flint, should stand part of the clause.
After a short conversation, in which Sir E. LLOYD, Mr.
J. STANLEY, and others, took part, that part of the cianse
was agreed to.
The next question was, that Llandaff, Cowbridge, Met,
thyr Tydvil, Aberdare, and Llantrissant sharing with Car-
diff, stand part of the clause.
Colonel WOOD said, that it became his duty to bring
wider the consideration of the House the case of Merthyr
Tydvil. Its importance was well known. Its population war
numerous and respectable, and taken with that of the ad.
joining hamlet, amounted to 19,250 inhabitants. The town
was certainly separated from that hamlet by a small brook,-
over which he hoped the Committee would not hesitate to
step. He compared the population of Merthyr Tydvil and
its vicinity with that of several ether places, to which for-
mer clauses of the Bill gave representativsa, • to 'show that it
had much greater claims than they.' contained 680 101.
houses. When annexed to Cardiff it would lose.thafidiare
which it had hitherto had in the elections for the county
of Glamorgan. The places
.with which -it was to be
joined bad no connexion with it whatever. Some of them
being entirely separated from it by atiourrtains, and Cardiff
being distant from it nearly 25 miles, and. haviiiginte,r:ssiit_s
not only distinct from those of Merthyr, butalmost r!
ing with them. B'dtles (as we undarstood. him). he !
ob-
jected to overwhelming the constituency' of Cardiff, which
had itself a right to a distinct representation, being the
county town of Glamorganshire, and an impot tint, rising,
and populous place, He wag 110 t we of those who would