The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-12 00:00:00

I_,,f!rd :i-
Cie at6iiig.tt Urn b 'lit' Di se lionsfe
heel pursued in teletence to th's Bill. They had in effect re
p ailed the duty since March last, upon no better authority
th n a vote of the House of Commons. He thought that
:hie was a %trip which the Ministers were not justifie I in
taking, wince it was not absolutely necessary. The b tier
-An would have been not to have diaaolved the last Par-
liiitient so precipitately, but to have allowed it to sit
there weeks Linger, and then to have proceeded regularly- ;
isr, if they thought it neets,ary to dissolve the last Par ia-
meet foe their own oheecte, then they might have delayed
the repeal :ill the meeting of the present Parliament. lie
thaiught it necessary to call their Lordships' attention to
!hie arobject, ad; there :seemed to be some danger that, under
:lei pee' Credatitu ion which seas to be introduced, the
privileges of fie clause might be Jest, but he did not mean
oppose the Bill.
Lord GODERICH did not think that there was any
emend fur the objections stated by the Noble Duke. The
in./icier& practice wag, when the House of Commons
came to any resolution repealing or altering duties—the
invariable practice was to carry that alteration into Mime-
Ii tie e frect, though such resolutions were nut a law till
thay had received the sanction of both Houses and the
Crown. Unless that were done great confusion would
ensue, and great apeenlation would se caused. That was
tier re 'son fur taking the duty off coals on the let March.
ILe highly approved of the taking off that duty, as it was
:nest unjust in principle. It bore the heaviest where the
cessitieds of the people were greatest. In the southern
eiitinties, where fuel was scarce, it led to a system of
plundering troeds, which led to :onus' more serious
cranes. 'the Noble Duke seemed to think that the ee-
-1 ed should have been relayed till the regulations of the
eio il trade in the port of London had been carried into
ettict. That would have been vel r..tion•il had the
ti x • :teplied only to London, but it would have been
very injurious fa the Teat of the community e filch
erect subject to this tax. There was, however, a Bill then
in re:peel through Parliament to relieve the city of
Lonrho) from three onerous reguleione. The olijert of
Levering the duty ten the exportation of coal-, to which the
Noble Duke referred, Was to eurourriee the export of coals.
!le tit:firipit,tl no evils from that exportation. Ile did not
expect that times would be any deficienry of coals in the
country, as lie believed the stock would last for 20,000
years. He had no apprehension either that the ex-
port would contribute to raise up rival manufactures
for something else beside resale were requisite,
which other cotnitties ceold not command,- The coils that
were exported were not, in feet, in use here, and, there-
/ ire, without doing any injury to cur manufacturer s,
allowing the export would confer s p,ieitive benefit on the
coal owner. As to the revenue, he would assure the NeSle
Duke that the expected produce of this year, including all
anticipated losses, would not he deficient. There was no
ground whatever for fearing that our revenue would not
lei sufficient to answer all demands. Tin it Lordships
!night calculate icy the half year aireediy peered that the
revenue would be ample. He did not anticipate, there-
fore, from the reduction of taxes, jedgirtg by experience,
that the revenue would fall off for that reduction. There
was an elasticity in the national resources which carried
the revenue above all expected reduction. The Noble
Lord hail stated, that in consequence of the reductien in
the Excise duties last year, and this year, it mist have
been expected thet the Excise revenue svould have fallen
off upwards of 2,000,000/, when the defalcation weds
only about 900,000/. The same fact was ob ervable in
the Customs. He considered these redactions calculated
to confer great benefit on the people. There Is as no remold
fur supposing diet the country was not able to meet all the
demand.; upon it, which was the case with no other country.
The Duke of WELLINGTON explained. Ile wow
afraid that the conaequerice of the Bill introduced into
the other 'louse for regulating the coal trade of London,
would compel the Noble Lords opposite either to levy the
coal duties in the port of London, or the north of Eng-
I Ind, or give the city of London 'ionic equivalent for the
duties on coals.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY recommended some
duty on imports, instead of the duty en coals in the pout
of London, and that the duty on coals :or the city of Lon-
don should he done away. The Noble Lord also stated,
that the price of coals had been kept up by the combina-
tion and standing out of the colliere, since the duty was
taken elf. Tie was afraid, from the accounts he received
from the north of England, that the people there remained
very discontented, notwithstanding the concessions of the
coal owners. lie deplored the combination of the work-
mea generally in unimis who were assembling far political
purposes. under the mask of regulating the trade. The
Noble 'Marquis then referred to an advertisement, calling a
meeting of the Northern Union to =eider, among other
things, of the means to express their loyalry to their sove-
reign, and the effects of the Reform Bill, with various
other political subjects. The advertisement concluded
with many expressions of loyalty and attachment to the
throne. He put it to their Lordships whether these were
the people who wire calculated to take political and legis-
lative measures into their consideration. He wished them
to return to their obedience to their employers, and con-
tinue obedient to them ; and if they did that, there might
yet be some hopes of the prosperity of that part of the
country. lie appealed to Noble Lords, count cted with that
part of the country, if such proceedings were proper ; and
he had adverted to the subject, because he felt some un-
easiness as to that part of the country.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE augure I well of the dis-
position of the people ix that part of the country, and of the
disposition of the people generally, whatever might be the
disposition of the individuals, that whoever addressed the
people could not do it in any other language then that of
loyalty, atnd obedience, and attachment to the throne. It
was satisfactory to hear, from the Noble Lord's statement,
that it was not possible to convene large bodies of men
unless such language was used, and it wail not possible to
influence them, except by having recourse to sentiments
that were loyal, just, and peaceful, similar to that quoted
by the Noble Marquis. He believed he might assert,
whatever apprehensions existed as to the general temper
and feelings of the peol.le, and whatever might be the
feelings and designs of individuals, which he was not
disposed to deny, still it was most satisfactory to know
that whenever large bodies of men were to be ap-
pealed to, whenever multitudes were to be brought
into action, it wee satisfactory to know that they
could only be moved by appeals to their loyalty, and to
their attachment to the country. He roar principally, how-
ever, to confirm the satisfactory conclusion drawn by his
Noble Friend on the state of the revenue. With respect
to the repeal of the duties on coals, that repeal must be
imperfect, as long as any local duties remained, either in
this or any other part of the kingdom. He believed Ire-
land would be very much benefitted by a total repeal of all
such duties. They ought to he done away, totally done
away, in Dublin, as well as in London ; and an article
that was next to bread, as the foundation of enbsistence,
that contributed to the physical comfort and enjoyment of
the poor quite as much as bread, at the same time that it
was the great means of providing them Ishii employment,
and adding to the national welfare, ought to be free as air,
and as freely carried to and from every part of the king-
dein. It ought to find its way as readily to the furnace of
the manufacturer as to the kitchen of the poor man, and
ought in no port or place to be interfeted with by Custom-
house or Excise officers, or impeded in its free circulation.
That was in his opinion most desirable; and he therefore
regarded the repeal of the duty, as far as :t went, with much
satisfaction. With respect to the general state of the re-
venue, he agreed with the Noble Duke that it would he
satisfactory if there were a larger sure us revenue; and he
wished the surplus were much greater than it actually was.
lie believed, however, that with all the reductions pro-
pond, the surplus would not be less than 300,000/. or
400,000/. There were two ways in Which the
surplus might be looked at. It 'night be kept
up by keeping up all the present taxes, or they
might be reduced with a view of promoting the pros-
perity of the country, and so increasing the resources
and providing a large additional revenue at some future
time. The country was at present in that sate which
made it more desirable that the taxes should be reduced,
with a regard to future prosperity and present employment
for the people, than that they should be kept on to provide
a large present surplus. He looked forward to a great
improvement in the revenue, by so removing nixes as to
allow the natural resources of the country to expand there-
s, 'yes by means which at once gave relief to the poor, and
encouraged the capitalist to embark his means in providing
fresh employment for them: They ought to look to the
repeal of taxes which would have such effects; and the
repeal of the tax on coals possessed all these good qualities.
It encouraeed trade, it stimulated manufactures, it pee
present relief, and supplied the means of levying an in-
creased revenue hereafter. Tn.: tax on printed cottons was
similar in its operation. The law had been very bene-
ficial to Ireland, by raving the manufacturers there from
firing overwhelmed by the article, as they had been from
England. He considered that all the taxes which had been

repealed had been must judiciously selected, and that the

r..pell was caleulArd to promote the prosperity of the

country.

Such repeals ought always to be gradual, and

_ .
lie trusted he should never hear iti this country of any
,iidtien changes in tazAtion, for all such changes did harm.
Ho hoped that their Lordships would at times carefully
eryise our Own R yerm—not with a view to make any
swiden changes, but with a view gradually to repeal duties
that were most onerous, and ea. efully selecting such