The Sun.
London, England, 1813-02-18 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

WEDNESDAY, VER. 17.
The Call'of the House was postponed sill this
day se'nnight.
Mr. BLACKBURNE presented a Petition from the
inhabitants of Lancaster against the Catholic
Claims, which, after an observation from Lord
Stanley, was laid on the table.

..111r..AnEacitomatE presented a -Report- on the
subject,' and tibiained leave to bring in a Hill'
for regulating and improving Covent Garden
Market.

Mr. CaoitEß presented the Ordinary Estimates
of the Navy, which were ordered to lie on the' ta—
ble, and to be printed.
The _Copper Exportation Bill went -through
Committee. Report to be received on Friday.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ,brought
in it Bill to repeal the Starch Prohibition Bill of
last Session, Which was read a. first tine. Second
reading to-niorrow, •
Mr. BEN wier, after some preliminary statement '3,
and noticing what he thought a'deficieticy in the
military returns before the thnise, which shewed
,the amount of casualties,' not by actual' statement
but by eomparison, asked for an explanation of
the circumstance of there being tiOUO men fewer
than were accounted for.
Lord PALMERSTO,II said, that the real easnalties
were more,tban reported in these returns, and the,'
way to' ascertain them was by referring to the ef-
fective force of both years, and striking the ditle-
renee between them,, adding the numbers raised by.
recruiting to the latter year,
thought every man ought to be
directly accounted, for one way or other.
Isord,PAL,NtERsToN obServed, 'that the returns
from distant,parts were not yet received.
Mr. BENNETT' said, the mode pursued was falla-
cious and unintelligible.
Lord PatmEes-rox replied, that the Returns
were froM ,the Adjutant-Generals, and the-best
that could' he given. if the lion. Gentleman
thought they-were deficient, he'-bad better make a
motion on the subject.-,--Lliere .the eonversr,tion
dropped.]
•

c pregent,Cti all ACCouot. of. MC.'
ney required by the StureLeepet-General.--Laid,
on the tuble.

Mr. %Vault appeared at the Bar, with the
names of Members balloted to try.the merits of
the Sudbury Election, Petitiou.—They Were 1.01-
low

Mr. !oh') Hotigml, Mr. Robert Abercromby',
Mr. Joscph Pitt, lion. W. L. Tim hat sC,
Mr. W. Richardson, Mr. 11-1. Clic:heti, :
Mr. John Egvrtori, Mr. 5, Round,
Mr. 0. 11. Rove, Col. Orerington lilumhln,
Mr, Wrn. Doug!as, Mr. lonathatt &title.
Mr. , Mervyn Archdall
. ____ _

T.ELimts.
Mr. J. L. Lockhart, Mr. T. S. Gooch.
PENAL CODt:.

Sir S. liomim.y rose, pursnaut to. notice, to
draw the attention of the.House' toward some
amendment in the renal Code. The measure he
had to propose had twice .received the sanc-
tion of the notise, :once without opposition, and
by a great majority, but had been rejected
by the IliniSe of Lords: If he. thought that
bringing the part he now intended forward, could •
be deemed arty wautof respect to, that high quarter,
it would give him notch concern, but lie could not
believe that it could be so taken. The
onan' then detailed the history of his former
Bills ; and as be wvrma adressing.a New Parliament*.
recapitulated most of the arguments by which he
had formerly supported them. Of the three
namely, that to do away the capital punishment of
Stealing to the aniount; of live shillings in a shop,
warehouse,, out-house* or stable,,. and that to
antke a similar enactment with- regard tr, ste ding
forty shillings in a dwtdling,house ; - and that in.
the same way allectiug:stealing.to them amount at
forty shillings on a navigable river, &c.; his in- •
'teution, at thiS time, was only to retain the first;;
which had even been thought by those who op-
posed the measine, to be the least objectionable.
Ile confined himself.to this, as _he was desirous of
exciting as, little opposition us: possible, The
principles on which he defended his proposition
for the passing of a Bill were, that time penal
lawn existing against this Offence Was so severe,
that it was not intended to be execnte-d, and this;,
he-ciintended* ought not to he the ease. 'l`h, hoi
sitould- be defined and applied, and not lett in a
state.of doubt and uncertainty. !Che object alt
itiNITS was to prevent crime, not this, lie argued,
was_ not calculated to produce that elfeet, and lets .
quoted Mr. Burke .as bolding the same opinion
with et*ard to law4.not executed being absurd,—
The punishment was too serene for the strati
of five shillings worth of lace or ribbon was not a
sufficient graund for Inking away the life of ,t
man being, unless accompanied by sonic gross laid
extraordinary aggravations, The eiliieeof such . -
law, never executed iii the memory tit any one who
heard him, had been to:augment the number of
ofince. He then alluded to the ease.of Winter,
Allen, anti Taylor, lately.execnted, and rebutted
any objection that could be made to the Bill (not
now proposed) for doing Away the capital part of
the punishment for stealing to the amount of forty
shilhogs on board a vessel, Ike. Although, if
that Bill had -passed, a Crime of this magoitude
would have escaped the severity of punishment,

i

`L'he SOLlc'troit GENpAL tseid, that he differed
very much front Jih Hon. Friend (Sir.S. Rowdily)
in the view he had taken of the. subject but its-.it
tray not Isis intention to oppose the bringing in of
the Bill, he would not trouble the House at any.
great length. With respect to the mord nal." udgment
in the case of High Treason, they might, console
themselves by.relleeting that it. was merely nomi-
nal.- With respect-to the corruption of blooti,ise
eonfisssed that it was• at no time justifiable, but
on a priociple tit terror. Every person acqUainted
with huinan nature knew that there were many
men who, though no personal consideratitin could
withhold them from the commission of crime,.
Were 'yet powerfully restrained by the. considera..
tion that the effects of it. would fall upon their
descend:nits. There were instances of persons.
who even inflicted death on theMselves, merely
freoi the couideratiore of what their family was
to obtain from i.elife instirentecontpuny. If sech
were the case, no person could7deisy-that corrup-
tion of blood wubt have a powerful' effect in pre»
votititig thy critnv of high meson: If discretion,
were not ;Allowed to a Judge in' passing Sentence
irs:th't, conntty, he was of opinion that no person
svAeld be iomtd to accept a situation on the Bench.
lf eneh were not the ease, rue SSiZC's Would be,
cinuertedinto sltstt.ibks Stich -discretion could,
not be plated in better hands than in those of the
Judges. Here the' Learned Gentleman Went into
a long Panegyric on the mereiful disposition mu,
nifested b prosetntOrti in this country, and con-
cluded by expresaing his eons ietion of the justice
and propriety. of the sentence-which had been
executed on ti-AA three persons' alluded to ;by his
lion. Friend (Sir S. Routilly) It was the elite.
ttion to this case that :hat' principally. induced hint
ri,e, as it, was,. very important that the public"
ehoeld feet its regret for the. punishment that had,
teen inflicted itethis:Mie. - •
Mr. FltAiMtetel. said, he knew perfectly
tell
that winly foreign writerit Were of opinion that
our poial laws -were more ntmerotts and severe
tittku th(*t. of any:o6'v country. But this -opinion
w.-c 4. altogether founded to mistake'. 11e,coneeiVeit
the value of any ittiele stolen,copetittitedmo.,
a4gravation ofethe offence, lie hoped' that ,the
S'ew Pa.rii,lolteixt would not deviate faint the prin-
ciple of coder of written lawS; tor it ,was
inttnifestly liflpltu.'x to adopt the-mode of legislate
iegity 1)00 icutar phruse. . .

yet he would have congratulated himself e n its
Moving saved the lives even of these men, whose
crime, though great, Was not of a very a:-gravated
dev:ription, and differed fronn.common eases only
as to the amount of the property stolen. He no-
ticed that the Jury had unanimously recommended
these offenders to pmercy. The' next which he
should move for leave to briut iii, was one found-
ed upon the same principle. Jt vas' another in-
stance of laws that existed only upon the Statute
rook ; what he alluded to was the law as it now
• stood with respect to the ohne of high treason.
The common law of judgment in this case was,
that the person, utter hanging for a certain time,
should he embowelled and beheaded. The pu-
nishment: of embowellimu was not- now inflicted,
and Judge Blackstone remarks, that it never was
inflicted unless through accident or negligence.—
With respect to part of the punishment, discretion
was transferred from the Judge to the execution-
er. The punishment, however, had been often
inflicted: In the case of Colonel Walker, his son
brought a writ of error; to have the judgment 're-
versed, on the ground that the words us e9nyerti
ipso virente, were both omitted, and both the
the King's Bench and time House of Lords were
of opinion, that on account of this omission, the
indgntent was not a good cue. On-the arounent
upon this me, it was said that the judginent «mid
uot be executed, as it .required
namely, that the bowels of the person should
be taken out in his sight; which some Contended
'Wits impossible. Subsequent instances, however,
had proved that it was not impossible. lit the
time of Charles :the -Second, (ferment! Harrison,
one of the regicides,. while his howelS were in the
act of being turn out,,rose•up and 'struck the e.,Nic-
This part of the judgment,, in the case
of high treason, should not, in his opinion, re-
- inaimi c)11 the Statute Book, ai a reproach to the
i.:ollOtrAr. It should not any
,longer be lea to the
41iscretiotm of the •egeentioner, the reign of
Queen Elizabeth, this part of the punishment was
always inflicted, Lord Bacon admitted the fact,
but justified it upon the, ground of greater seve-
rities-being inflicted in other countries. , In the
case of Barrington's-conspirators, it was inflicted
in all its rigour. The Queen, .hoverer, when the.
shocking eircumstences that accompanied it were
reported to her, -gave orders that emhowelling
should not take place till life was extinct. lathe
case of. ToWnley, mentioned in the State Trials, it
was literally executed after the sufferer had been
hanging for six minutes. It was not well known
why this was first introdueed into the common
law cat' judgment in the case of high treason-) but
there was some probability that it first took place
id the reign of Edward the First, and was inflict-
ed upon. David Prince of Wales, on account of
the determined bravery with which be had de-
fended his country ,atairist the. nytisiOn of ,Ed-
want. In the same reign, this pimishinent
was inflicted, in one instance, equally 51ishonour-
able to the King. It Was inflicted upon William
Wallace, for, the valour and obstinacy -with which
, be opposed-,the lirtish arms. The laW, with re-
Speet to this, in the same statemniil the
yeer 17(H). Uorraridon of blood was another putt
of the punishment for high. trea-son, up' n which
'there were different opinions. Tire. result of this
W'eo, that the peisOli COtivietid was remlered iikoo
ruble of transmitting property -in the line of
descent. An estate could not pass either to his
children or to tniy of his collaterallelations... The
consequences of this appeared tri be most unjust, .
insomuch that Judge.Blatlistone, in three or. four
places., speaks of the great hardship of it.. It
was hirr intention to move for leave to lain* lit a
Bill also upon this subjeet, He would not now
detain the House aiiy iiint.NE, but Inure for leave
to brim; in a Ballo repeal so -much of the 1 Ith
and 12th of William 111. as to take away the bene-
fit of clergy front persons stealing to the amount
of fit. and tam the wore effectual prevention of
. such ofinces. •

S.ll.o:swo.Y. said, that no persOt cottlate-
more udwaderstoOtt than he had betn by both his
Honourable and,Lefirned, Friends. He request
ed that they wottld inforut:thentselve of his prin-
ciples before the came under farther dilcnsr.
,11,ehail been made to say, that there should
be a catalogne theo ptinishment of crimes, so
sPeeifie, that no.l
thing Amalfi be left to the discre7
tion of the jUdge. This was so completely the
revejsc of his doctrine, that its fault was, leaving
rather too much to the discretion of the Judge.---
His Honourable and Learned Friend had also ac-
cused him of casting blame- on the way in Which
those persons had been punished who were Cl4l -
yieted of piracy on the litanies. This was an-
other gross mistake. It was very far front his in-
tention to reflect on any of the persons who had
been connected with the proceedings of. the -Coml.
in. which theSe criminals had been trues. On the
colltrarY, he would vie, C Vett With hi's Learned
YritMil, in ptinegyrising 13aron 'Thompson' and
the others. He had farther been represented as a
person who \visited to get rid of the punishinents
which ought to, be imposed by the penal
Ile never could he guilty of any supposition -so
childish, as that the penal law could he enforced,
without the stacrings of their fulloW-ereatures.—
His objection was not to punishment itself, but
to the wade of punishment directed by the law as
it then stand I and this because it tended to in
crease and not to diminish 'the number of crimi.
nals. If, however, his lion. Friend was 'right,
then it would only be, necessary to pass a law
'which should make all felony a capital critne ; and
then to leave the Judges to run fa race ,with
the prosecutors-in endeavouring to dispense with
the law.
Sir IV. GAnaow explained.

11.yrut: asr said, that the Hon, Gentleman
(Sir !S. ltomilly) was mistaken if lie thought
that. rue Of the goods stolen had any great
influence in the: sentence which had 'been pased
on the pirates in the River Thames. The Peti-
tion whin the Hon. Gentleman had. in his hand,.
and which had been presentedlo the Prince Re-
gent, in the behalf of these tmiortur.pt.r men, 11.4(1
been considered before the sentence had h;am.put
in exedution. He knew. that the object of that
Petition was ns much to furnish the Hon. Gentle-
man with .matter for.his speech, tti to procure a
pardon for the culprits. it was an elaborate cont.
position, not of the Jury, (u.,ho had been hunted
after till they signed it), .but of an admirer' of the
Honourable' Gentleman, and it was framed .in
order to effeet the object 'of the Hon. Gentleman's
Bill.

Sir SAmu EL RmIILLY said, that the Right Hon.
Gentleman who had spoke last had dared to say .a
great deal too much, when he said that he (Sir S.
Romilly) knew that the Petition bad been framed
by an admirer of his, and for the purpose of pro-
Hinting the object of'his Bill. Upon his honour,
he declared Ire did not know who the Right non.
cir'entleman hid alluded to ; it !levet. had been
framed for the purpose of making any part of his
sliced). It had only occurred to him two days
before, that en allusion to that Petition might
promote his views, and. on that Recount he 10.*&k
brought it to the House. The. Petition, ir,stead
of bein:;•an elaborate production, was a most un-
;o-Tionna-t.kal nutormition, without one finished
sentence. He had' no conception of whom the
Right Honourable Gentleman spoke when he
had said that it 'had been drawn up by an admirer
of his.

After a few words from ilifes'irs. Bathurst and
Ryder, the question was put, when Slr S. Itotuilly
obtained leave'to bring in the Rill. Be also ob-
tained kayo to bring in oon7erniag the pu-
nibliment of High 'frown and Fel,..nly,

On the motion. of Mr. firt:EY.ADDiat,;lroN, the
frolise resolved itself into it Committee, to,consi-•
-der the. Acts lot regulating the trages of Ara-,
ficerS and Labourerd, for the,purpo;ke of -framing,
0, Bill.
After some conversation llt:.wecn Mr. Thomp-
son and l t it Addington, it wco'resolved to re-
peal the Act, far as it related to the settling and
regulating of ,vages by tile .•
idea ve c given ,to bring in a bill' for that
purpose.
COMMITTEE 'OF SUPPLY.

In this Commit lee, 55,1 30/.3 Cs. d. was grant-
ed .foe'varioui services; Lint owing to the low
tone iii tit hieh Mr. Wharton spoke,:, and the in-
di%tinet and quick artienlation of it. Coortocy,,
(vvho was CI! iirman in the ahsenet of Mr. Lu..,li-..
ton), the nature of these' serviees,. though men-
tioned, was fl hearth in the Gallery,