The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-03 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition
numerously signed by landowners and farmers in Der-
byshire, praying for a re-enactment of the corn-laws. The
Noble Duke thought their Lordships were trying the
loyalty of the petitioners too far in refusing to do any-
thing for them.
Earl FORTESCUE presented petitions in favour of
an alteration in the terms of the educational grant.
IRISH POOR-LAWS.

Earl FORTESCUE presented the report of the Com,
mittee on the Irish poor laws.
ENTAILED ESTATES.

The Duke of RICHMOND presented the report of
the Committee on entailed estates, and moved that the
report be received.—Agreed• to.
The NOBLE EARL then brought in a Bill to
carry out the recommendations of the Committee. The
object of the Bill was to enable owners of entailed
estates to borrow money for the purposes of drainage.
The Committee thought it was of great import-
ance that this Bill should pass during the present
session, and he sholud like in the next session
to have the Committee re-appointed, in order to
carry the investigation of the subject still further
He should not be able to move the second reading of the
Bill next week, because he should be obliged to attend
his duties at quarter ses3ions, and he hoped the Noble
Earl at the head of the Woods and Forests would take
charge of it, and give it the support of the Government,
as, unless the Government took it up, there was no chance
of the Bill passing during this session.
The Earl of WICKLOW hoped the measure would
be extended to Ireland.
The Duke of RICMMOND had no objection t) ex-
tend the measure to Ireland, but he had been long
enough in Parliament to know that any question con-
nected with Ireland gave rise to lengthened debates, and
he was exceedingly anxious that this measure ehould
pass during this session.
The Earl of CARLISLE cordially approved
of the objects of this Bill, and although he
would not undertake to state that no alteration
would be found necessary, yet with that proviso he would
be happy to give to the Bill every support in his power.
Lord BEAUMONT said that no Drainage Bill would
be effectual until they had a law for regulating the out-
lets of drainage. He hoped Government would intro-
duce a measure authorising two-thirds of the landowners

of a district to erect engines for drainage, and to levy
rates for the purpose of defraying the expense of such
engines.
The Bill was then read a first time. '
SOUTH AUSTRALIA.

Lord MONTEAGLE presented a petition from certain in-
habitants of New South Wales, stating objections to the
amount required to give the franchise to the colonists under
the present constitution. In corotequeuee of the great alter-
ation in the value of property, it was found that it had the
effect of greatly limiting the electoral body. That was a
prayer which of course would require to be very maturely
considered by their Lordships. He would, however, take
advantage of the presentation of the petition to ask his Noble
Friend the Secretary for the Colonies the question of which
he had given notice—namely, whether it was the intention
to proceed in the present session of Parliament with the Bill
for altering the constitution of the Australian colonies? It
. .

might be said that it was irregular in him to allude to a Bill
which was not now 19efore their Lordships ; but he thought,
under the circumstances, he was justified in doing so, because
the Bill was yet in the other House ofParliament, and in the
month of August their Lordships might be called upon to
pass it.—(Hear, hear.) They had already had examples of
the mischievous effects of such hasty and ill-
considered legislation. It was only necessary to
refer to the case of New Zealand, in which, after their
Lordships had passed a constitutional Bill, which, when it
went over, had to be suspended, because it was altogether
impracticable. They had another pertinent example in
the case of New South Wales, to which they gave municipal
or district councils. That Bill was passed without adequate
inquiry, and, when it got into the colony, it was found so
unsuited to the case and to the times that the Legislative
Council applied to Sir George Gipps, the governor, to sanc-
tion them in suspending the law, and in acting contrary to
it.—( Hear, hear.) Sir G. Gipps saw the necessity of the
case, and was compelled to give the local legislature the
power of suspending an imperial Act. For two years this
was the case. For two years the local legislature was al-
lowed to override the Imperial Government and Legislature.
That was a state of things which he thought so dangerous,
' so fraught with evil consequences, that he thought he was
justified in calling upon the Government to give them time
for mutually considering any future constitutional Bill.—
(Hear, hear.) He was still farther supported in this view by
the papers on their Lordships' table. He found that Sir
Charles Fitzroy, the present Governor of New South Wales,
had expressed his opinion that persistence in the proposed
Bill would throw the colony into confusion and cause great
dissatisfaction. But there was one ground on which he
specially objected to the course which had been adopted with
reference to this measure. The Secretary of State, in intro-
ducing a Bill for the constitutional regulation of the colonies,
referred it in the first instance to the Board of Trade and
Plantations. He objected to this course on constitutional
grounds : he objected to it because it gave rise to a divided
responsibility. He contended that the Secretary of State
fur the Colonies was bound to give his advice to her Majesty
on colonial affairs on his own responsibility, and ought not to
be allowed to shift it upon others, or refer such matters to
the Board of Trade.

Lord BROUGHAM—Board of Trade and Plantations.
Lord MONTEAGLE—True ; at one time it had control
over the plantations or colonies, but we now had a Secretary
of State, specially charged with the functions of Colonial
Minister, and he must repeat his objection on constitutional
grounds, that that Minister should refer so important a
question to the Board of Trade. In the papers on the table
he found there were the strongest objections stated by the
colonists to two Chambers, but on looking carefully at the
language of these objections, it would be found that they
objected to having two Chambers, if they were to be com-
posed as the one was, mainly of nominees of the Crown.
Looking at the important and various considerations involved
in this subject, and remembering that they were now in the
month of July, he could only say that he thought their Lord-
ships would lower their own character, and the authority of
the Imperial Parliament, if they proceeded with so important
a 'TIMM.% without opportunity for more mature deliberation.
—(Hear, bear.) He might, indeed, appeal to the Noble
Lord in a twofold capacity. He was present, not only in his
capacity of Colonial Minister, but as the sole representative
of the city of Melbourne in Port Philip. They were em-
powered to send six representatives, but they had declined to
exercise the privilege, and had selected his Noble Friend as
their only representative.—(A laugh.) The question had
been laid before the law officers of the Crown, who had de-
cided that the people of Melbourne were not restrieted by
the laws of the colony as to their choice of representatives,
and might, therefore, if they so pleased, elect a Peer of the
realm, and the consequence was, that his Noble Friend sat
there holding an office, the duties of which, with all his
abilities, it was impossible he could discharge, and an example
of the evils arising from the hasty, ill-considered, and crude
legislation which he now called upon the Government to
delay. Ile hoped, that at all events, their Lordships would
be allowed till next year to consider so important a measure.
Earl GREY said it was certainly irregular to make a
speech in presenting a petition, upon a measure not before
their Lordships. At the same time there were reasons
which occasionally justified a departure from the usual
rules of the House, and he would avail himself of the op-
portunity of giving a short explanation of the nature of the
Bill which had been alluded to by his Noble Friend. But
before doing so he must be allowed to trouble their Lord-
ships with a few remarks as to the charge of unconstitu-
tional reference to the Board of Trade. He must re-
mind their Lordships that from the earliest times it had
been the practice to consider all important ques-
tions referring to the colonies to a Committee of
the Privy Council. In the lapse of time it was found
that these affairs were too multitudinous to be well
managed by a Board, and for that reason a Secretary of
State was appointed, who was charged with conducting
the correspondence with the colonies, but it was still the
practice to refer all important questions to Committees.
In reality there was no shifting or division of respon-
sibilities. The whole Cabinet were responsible for its
acts as a Government.—(Hear, hear.) But practically it
was impossible to fret the consideration of the Cabinet to
all questions, and therefore he availed himself of the
advice of the Board of Trade and Plantations. In point of
fact these measures came before him in the shape of a re•
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