The Sun.
London, England, 1809-02-28 00:00:00

ARMY ESTIMATES.

The SECRETARY at WAR t hen proceeded to move
the Army 'Estimates, upen which-he stated, that se-
veral exceediugs wonld, necessarily accrue under dif-
ferent heads of estimates, upon comparison with those
of the last year; part ef.Which arose from necessary oc-
currence of expenditure, as the increase of the public
force, both in the Line and Militia, the Staff of Garri-
sons, and the Staffebroadi the increase of objets upon
theGreentvithandKilinainhamHolpitals,thepensions
to widows,theaddisionalDeputy Pay masters, and some
increase of salary to the junior Clerks in the War
Offices, with the necessary addition of some super-
numeraries, Occasioned by the pressure and increase
'of business in that department. Many of these ex-
ceedings again were Merely nominal, and not a real
increase,: for they bad been uniformly paid before
under the-head of Military Contingencies ; but in
compliance with the recommendation of Chef Finance
Committee, it was deemed right to bring every
charge which was ascertainable under some ape-
, cifie head of
.estimate'; and where the estimate
of the preceding yeatt had fallen considerably
short of the teal 'expenditure, U: was deemed
right to make the estimate for the present at
the real amount :which :experience' bad proved it
to be. There was also another head of expends- •
• cure, where the sum charged would greatly exceed
the reality, namely, the clothing for the Local Miiitia.
This estimate was tor four years, and therefore only
one-fourth of the SUM was really chargeable tot he pre-
sent year,altliongh the w boleti:lust be advanced. But
against theexpenceof t his corps there would be actin-
siderable saving trout that of the Volunteers, great
numbers of wheni bed transferred their services to the
Local, Militia. The Right Hon. Secretary, as he
went on, specified the SeveriA •sums of exceeding, and
said he was' ready to answer , any objections that
might be Offered. '
Mr. MARTIN said, that upon the' military esti-
mate of the present year, so great an exceeding as
1,500,0001, over that of the la,t, when the burdens
of she people were increased to such a pitch,- was
a subject that called for
,the most minute andslatis-
faCtory explanation, In the office of Vaymaater-
General, for instance, there was a charge for Deputy-
Paymasters of 54,7711. exceeding by. 20,0001. the
estimate for the last year. This surely called for
some explanation, more especially as it was under-
stood that some of those persons. performed their
official duties by deputy ; the Paymaster of: Gibral-
tar, for instance, who, he understood, never was seen
there, but received hiti salary as a siuecure. Upon
the charge of the office of Secretary at War, 54,84.81.
there was an exceeding over the last year of 27,8481. ;
on the head of foreign corps there was another cix•
ceeding 'of 70,8004 and tinder other heads there
was a sum of. 54,0001. consisting. entirely of new
charges.
The SECRETARY at W4Il said, he theught he had.
already explained the several points to which Me
Hen‘ Member now objetted, nankely, that the prin.-
exceedings' on'tbose.several heads did not al.*
from new charges, but old and established oues,
brought into estimate, which had not before been
presented to Parliament in that shape:
Mr. LONG rose to explain the nature of the ap-
parent causes' of increased expeitee its the Office
of Paymaster-General, whicki he • attributed in the
chief degree, to' the' specification of sums in the'
estimate undertheir proper heads,which had been pail,
in all former years, ender other •and more general.
'head, The charge to Deputy'. Paymasters with troops
abroad was always an item of .eipendittne every year„
• and regularly drawn for. There never was any Deputy-
Paymaster employed, since he came to office, who
did not do his duty personally, but the Paymaster
of Gibraltar. He found that appointment so at his
, accession to office, 'and had not created it. But as
to the increase of Deputy Paymasters on foreign sta-
tions, the exigencies of the service absblutely required
it. The Hon. Gentleman surely would not say it
WaS unnecessar) to send Deputy Paymasters with thp
army to Portugal, awl with those wider Sir John
Moore and Sir D.ivid Baird.
After a few • observations from Lord Archibald
Hamilton and General Fitzpatrick, the Secretary at'
War explained one item, of the increase in the ex-
penditure, to 'he owing to the abolition of tees in
saute of the offices, and a consequent increase of the
salaries of the Clerks.

_
Mr. WYNNII rose, to put some questions to the
Right Hon. Secretary: He wished first to be in=
formed respe6iing t►te Local
.Militia, whether Go.
verninent intended to relieve the parishes frotd the
oppressive burden of the bounties, that they were now
obliged to pay to those who volunteered into the Lo-
.cal Militia. He also wished toknuw, resPetting`the
Volunteers, whether the difference arose between

the June corps and the August corps. It was now
six years since, the clothing had been given to the
Volunteers, and he conceived it was now time to.
give a further allowanm on this account. He,
thought the. August corps ought now to be,allowed
an Adjutant on permanent pay, as well 'as the June
ones. He wished to know what diminution would
now take place in the Field Officers attached to the
Volunteers. Ho was convinced thatinspeding them
six times a year would, not be more useful or better
than once or twice.
The SICUETAR at WAR said, that as to the first
point, Goverment certainly did intend to relieve the
parishes from the greatest part of the burdens, of
which they complained, with respe& to the Local
Militia. The other points had engaged the serious
attention of his Majesty's Government; but he was
not then prepared to say what was to be done..
Mr. MARTIN hoped that the Otdnance Estimates
would not exceed the proportion of the Army Esti-
mates ; he took notice of a charge for Brigade Chap-
loins, which he believed was a thing not generally
understood; as also of a sum of . 40,00,i1. for tele—
graphs in Ireland, the atmosphere of which watt
well known not to be fit for that species'ot commu-
nication,
The SECRETARY at. WAR explained the meaning ef
the institution of Brigade Chaplains. Foruplly eyery,
regiment had its Chaplain, whose pay wa4 bt.q 4,, dd.
per day, which •was not sufficient toinduCenny re-
spetable Clergyman to stay. with the regiment. The
consequence ut this was, that the Chaplains got the.

businesi done in the cheapest ivay they could, and
the regirnats had seldom the benefit of proper per.
sons Ito perform public wctihip. About ten years
ago, these Chaplains were allowed to ,retire upon
their pay, and the businesS wak done by the paroc:iial
clergy, of the place where the soldiers were quartered;
but when the army went upon foreign service, it
'became necessary to bring. other Chaplains with
them, who were called .Brigade Chaplains. It was
round necessary to give 159. a day to induce re-.
speCtable clergymen to undergo the 'fatigues and
&niers of accompanying an expedition on foreign
service.

Sir A. Wswis LEY explained the reason of ereCt-
ing telegraphs in Ireland. They had at first con-
strueted signal posts on the west coasts of Ireland;
but' they were not found to answer, and it was then

resolved to have a telegraphic communication direly
from Galway to Dublin through Athlone. From
Athlone there was another line of telegraphs .to
Limerick and Cork, so that the commbnication was

now very rapid from the west of Ireland to the seat
of •Government, and to his Majesty's ships in Cork

1, harbour. The'excess.of 39,0001. in the expence of
the Commissariat department of Ireland was
cipally owing to the shoes which they orovided
for the army in Spain.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD said, that he could not avoid
making a few obiervatiops on that item of the esti-
mate respeeting foreign corps. He understood that'
the Island of Capri lied been fortifiedin such a man-,
ner as to be considered impregnable, and that the de-
fence of it was principally entrusted to one of those
foreign corps, the Royal Regiment of Malta. A very
small French force attacked it, and this foreign corps
ran away, and let the French take the island. He saw
this Royal Regiment of Malta set down at!94o men;
and'he also saw 2 Royal Sicilian Regt. 'of t 12.7 men.
.He' believed the charaeler of did Sicilian people was
not exa&ly that which could be wished for recruit-
ing our army.
Mr. WiLaearoeca expressed surprise at the sys-
tem, which still prevailed about Army Chaplains.
As for the description of persons who were Chaplains
about ten years ago; he had an instinaive feeling,
which made him wish to get rid of thern.. He wish-
ed however, that our army should have the benefit of
religion tree fronithe abuses of the former institution.
If soldiers .went to 'the 'parochial church, they often
found that there was no accommodation for them ;
and as to saying prayers for them at a different hour
it was depriving the parish church of what was most
interesting in public worship, when all ranks and
degrees assembled together, to worship their com-
mon father and benetador. He thought it• was of
the utmost importance, that armies going on foreign
service., should have proper clergymen to administer
' the consolations of religion to the wounded and the
'dying: He thought there ought also to be sonic re-
ligiousinstrtict ion and consolation for the many black
regimentS in his Majesty's service in thee West
Indies..
• .
•

The SECRETARY at WAR repeated, that consider-
able improvements had already taken place in thp
appointment of Chaplains, and still further improve-
ments were intended:, As to the conduct of the Re,
giment of Maltit at. Capri, he had not information
enough on the subject to enable him at present to
give an opinion.
Mr. W. SmITII said,'thete was a subjeet I.vhich.he
•had lung wisheti for an opportunity Au allude to,
and which he did not wish to make any regular
motion about. As he coniidered it connected with
our military means, he should lake the present op-
portunity of stating it. The sicily had 'Jung
been occupied by our troops, was dependent
upon them for its defence. Nix though he was
aversugenerallv to the principi,l 4.1 intcvfering in the
affairs of
*another Government,
yet, when we took
upon us to defend Sicily against alfattacks, we would
.
be justified in seeing thut the Government of that
country took proper measures for their own defence.
The 'accounts of all travelleri for the last century
coincided in stating that the Sicilians 'were by no
means attached to the Neapolitan Government, which
'was most intolerably oppressive.. He had some
conversation with Sir John .Madre before be went
to that island, and it was the opinion of that gallant
Officer that the island was iusome danger on that ac-
count'. Another gallant Officer (Sir J. Stuart) who
was a distant relation of his, had exprei,ed to him the
same idea. Now, he thought we could do our bu-
sinesi' more efficaCiously with a smaller body of
Inert, if we would but suggest to the Government
of SiCily, the necessity of adopting such measures
as would sectre the.afreCtions of the inhabitants.
Flawing thrown out this idea, for the consideration
of his Majesty's Ministers, he did not mean to press
it further, or to make any motion to the House

upon U.
Mr. BRAND could not conceive the reason of the
estimate being so high tor the Volunteers, when it
was considered that 160,000 out of 240,000 had vo.
lunteered tor the Local

TheSRCRITARY AT WAR explained that the esti-
mate includdd the Volunteers of Ireland.

The following sums were then voted for the fol.
lowiug purpo.set.

Land Forces (including various miscellane-
ous services) - . . ,C 7,02,371 16 s t
Regiments in the East Indies . 666,373 , 5 e
'lro:ips and Companies forrecruiting ditto 29,3 2 10 0
Embodied Militia' . - - 344647 19 5
S tan' and Garrisons ..
~.. - - 449,649 7 9
Full I'4 to Supernumerary %Juicers ... 31,796 1 3
Public Departments - • - - 357,711 13 3
Half.pay and Military Allowances - 233,5611 5 a
lu.Pensioners of Chelsea and. Kilmainharn ,

• ..
-- . , ,
i iospitais . . . .. . 67043 14 tt
'Out.Pensioners of ditto .. - - 425,269 I 2
w idowe Pensions . . 440137 11 . $
Volunteer Corps . . t,000,8z0 o 0
Local Militia - , - 10,4.8..1 0 o
Foreign Corps •.. . 933,654 6 to
Royal Military College . - 16,975 17 4
Royal Military Asylum - • 23,350 . a
Allowances to Retired and Officiating Chaplains 24,971 12 11
hleclicine and Hospital Expenees - 115,024 s• g ' 4
Compassionate List . - . 14,300 o o
Barrack Department (Ireland) . 479,817 10 11
COVIIIIIii6AfiaI Department (Ireland) . 2.35,508 14 2