The Sun.
London, England, 1836-04-26 00:00:00

they adhere steadily and in good faith to the Osseritial
On this occasion I feel that I may consider, as estaiiiidlt,4d
conceded, the principle that Parliament has a right to
deal with the revenues of the Church if it- shall think
them swperfluous for Church purptiie---:(. Hear; hear, and
cheers)—because so long as the resolution adopted by
the present Parliament stands on our books uncanOellCd
and unrepealed, I have undoubtedly a right to take dlid
O. 1 110:156,Oi' Cdf-

-.•Solu-
t epiporietioadsi•iiiiro: Limes*, is Is "-sis;s;
P 4
it; ,they piepse, object to that
het jt is cirlY lo tlje i•espensibintv, enst. discretion of this
!louse that 1 am Oboe t 0 9µbtiiit. Hid iiieiloe:
ieifienibered by the Conimittee that tint
fcritoB for 'eftecilng last year; was the Sus
in tqes iiiirnb'er of the
•
fifty. Hear) notien caused much opposition and
membeiS ,Of the Established Church (lid not drtiOni 56
(
ii,issahatiorij btlt I Fha ll sidriSidet it perfectly tenable.
However,
perhaps in will be in the recoltedtidd cif FIoV, ctentlemen
that the main opposition against the Bill did not
id inhelt linV of euspending benefices as without it.
Now supposing all td d Fels thrilljfieti and that you leave out
of slew those polishes td Which yotir pelf-100e of suspension
do not apply; idol{ to thdse parishes td
principle dottyadd sec lid* little godd ydu cad for
lilt people ? There will be churches withedf ethigle,gatiOne, arid
flocks without a pastor. The Noble Lord then read peli elf
the speech of Sit Robert Peel, in which he deprecated
the resolutions
This Ido not dispute; but must see how fat I can act upon
This
lied bete brought forward by Government.
it consistently with what I think justly due to the itiferesfs
of all the parties to any scheme of general adjustment, fur in
order to anticipate the slightest chance of success, those
parties must constitute the Irish nation itself. Accordingly we
propose that in any future vacancy of a hetteflee, are should,
proceeding as before to award compensation for the patedefige of
private individuals in possession of the advowson, the Lord Lieu-
tenant should direct the Board of Ecclesiastical Commissioners
now sitting in Dublin to submit to the Privy Council a
report containing all the particulars relating to the va-
cant benefice • and a Committee of the Privy Council
will be established with a view to this especial purpose, con-
sisting exclusively of members of the Established Church,
and named by his Majesty. To this Committee all power
will be entrusted for altering the boundaries of vacant bene-
fices, subject to such modifications as subsequent vacancies
of contiguous benefices may require to be carried into effect.
—( Hear.) This part of the scheme was not contained
in the suggestions of the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) ;
but it follows closely the suggestions made by the Committee
on the Bill of last year, by my Hon. Friend opposite the
Member for Winchester (Mr. B. Baring) when persenting
a petition this evening from certain Members of the
Irish Church.—( Hear, hear.) The power thus entrusted to
the Privy Council is similar and analogous to that
which they possess of dealing with unions. I find that since
the year 1718 to the present time, the Lord Lieutenant and
the Privy Council have united 289 parishes into 94 benefices.
The Committee, after fixing the boundaries of benefices, will
then apportion such income as they may think proper, rela-
tive to the duties of the future incumbent..—(Hear, hear.)
We propose in the same way that in all benefices, when it shall
appear by the Report of the Commissioners of Public Instruc-
tion made last year, or by the evidence of the documents on
which that Report was founded, that there will be in any
future benefice from fifty to five hundred members of
the. Established Church, the income of the clergyman shall
not exceed 2001. per annum. And when the number of Pro.
testants shall vary from 500 to 1,000 the income shall not ex-
ceed 300/. When the number varies from 1,000 to 3,000, the
income shall not exceed 400/. Thus far I make use
of the precise proposition of the Right Honourable Baro-
net opposite—(Laughter from the Opposition Benches)—
according to the scale in the paper I have read to the House,
but we add a little to each end of the scale. The Right Hon.
Baronet did not advert to numbers below 50, as such was pro-
bably not consistent with the tenor of the argument he then
used. Whenever this is the case, we assign an income
not exceeding 1001., placing the incumbents, whose duty will
be exceedingly light, on the footing of a tithe, to be paid at as
liberal a rate as they are even now found to realise. And
where the number of Protestants is 3,000 and upwards,
which will apply chiefly to cities where the amount of
duty will be probably greater, and the expense of living
much greater,. we raise his income to 5001. Now, before I
venture to talk of a surplus, I ought, in the first place to
state to the Committee what I calculate to be the future
available income of the Irish Church. The annual tithes pay-
able to the parochial clergy may at present be taken at 511,0001.
—remitting 30 per cent., leaves the rent-charge at 353,0001.
The Ministers money may be put down at 10,000/. less
the expense of collection. Private bounty 5001., glebe
lands 92,000/., and after deducting rent 86,5001.
total 459,5501. Now I shall next proceed to state what
we have to provide for 1,385 benefices. To these may be
added a considerable number of sinecure benefices. Ido not
mean those in which there are no members of the Esta-
blished Church, but those which are held by dig-
nitaries of the Church, and in which little or no duty
is actually performed. There are also a considerable number
of presentations suppressed by the Church Temporalities
Act, divine service not having been performed in them
during the last three years, but the number to be pro-
vided for may be taken at 1,250.—( Hear.) Under this Bill
the Privy Council has the power to constitute new benefices,
of which they are likely to avail themselves.—( Hear, hear,
hear.) In the computations I have made, I have cast
them at the very highest rate—for 129 benefices in which
there are less than 50 members of the Established Church at
100/. a year, 12,900/. ; .for 670 benefices where the Protes-
tants vary from 50 to 500, at 2001. a year, 134,000/. ; for
209 benefices, where they vary from 500 to 1,000 at 3001. a
year, 62,700/. For 188 benefices, where they vary from
1,000 to 3,000, at 4001. a year, 75,000/. For 54 bene-
fices, containing 3,000 and upwards at 5001. a year,
27,0001. Beside the income allowed to the future incum-
bents in hard cash, the Committee of the Privy Council
are empowered to assign to each Clergyman a certain
appoint.‘
ve also
amount
oopnf
reogopl
reo bsmee
more
rnheoa not
tc
utehrxaect exceeding
rdiaivtnygac p3ooauynmsc statute
payment
uts
htoeaf acres.—(
haveS.
per m
power Hear,
incumbent undertaking to provide 251. more. This
charge will be 18,8881. according to my calculation. The
whole estimated expense of the Clergy of Ireland will then
be 361,938/., and I have already stated that we estimate the
whole revenues of the Church property at 459,5551. ;
that will leave a surplus of 97,612/. This will at once
be :seen is a much greater amount of surplus than I hoped
for last year; but my reasons for that have already been
given. It would be presumptuous in me now to pretend to
perfect accuracy in these calculations, but, as far as It was
possible, they have been made with a strict regard to truth.
—oa n
nee
urr to
, )
,
( Hear, hear.) After satisfying all these charges, we propose
that the remainder should b paid into the Consolidated
fund, upon which an immediate charge should be fixed of
50,0001. per annum for supplying the religious and moral
education of the country. These are the principles of the
measure I recommend for the adoption of the House. I
do not pretend that there may not be grave objections made
to some parts of the Bill ; it was impossible to bring in any
measure upon such a subject to which they would not apply,
but in his opinion there were but few to the present measure.
Every one must admit that unless they determined to continue
everything as it at present stood, or unless they, on the other
hand, determined to abolish the whole of the establishment in
Ireland, there would be most logical objections. None of those
plans could be effected with perpetuating those conflicts and
heartburnings which were now the curse of the country. He
would not dissemble his opinion that if they were to go on repeat-
ing experiments year after year, and coming to no result, they
might find that that which caused them to fight, and which raised
them so much of angry debate had ceased to exist • that
after they had brought up all their forces, and had
fought the battle, they might find nothing but a
lifeless corse in untenanted armour.—( Hear, and cheers.)
I will not deny that you will be able to bring a large array of
opposing force, but depend upon it you cannot command a
force on which to rely against future campaigns.—( ffeer,
hear.) The plan which we now propose goes far to obviate
many of the objections urged against the Bill of last year,
while it retains all its essential principles, and does not
forego any of its probable results.—( Hear, hear.) As
far as relates to the Clergy, the Bill will secure
them an income falling below that perhaps to which they are
now legally entitled, but greater than that which thay can
hope to realize from the good will of the Irish landlords,
the intimidation of the Irish peasantry, or I might
add from the generosity of the British public. We do
not propose to suppress any existing benefice in Ireland,
On the contrary, on the occasion of a vacancy we call in the
aid of a council which shall appoint a fitting tribunal, to which
will be added the authority of another of the greatest authority
and dignity, to ascertain the most advantageous manner
of future apportionment of ecclesiastical territory, and the
amount of an adequate income for the services rendered.
The Noble Lord went on to review the leading features
of his measure, stating that it would come into partial
operation ; and would he subject to the concurrence and control of
Parliament to remedy any errors, to supply any defects, or en-
tirely amend it. The Irish Church was compared to a missionary,
and he wished to have it reduced, not in the amount of the
income of its ministers, but to the simplicity and dignity of
by-gone days. In speaking of missionaries he did not mean those
classes of persons who had been holding forth in the cities,
the towns, the watering places, or the theatres of Great
Britain.—( Great cheers.) He believed that no class of men
would be more benefited by it than the Clergy themselves.
Happy, indeed, beyond all the efforts of legislators, and all
the skill of statesmen, will be that day when from all
her pulpits—Catholic and Protestant, Episcopal and Dissent-
ing—lreland shall learn to raise no longer fierce denun-
ciations of reciprocal errors, but shall remain in the holy
bond of brotherly forbearance and Christian peace. Sir, it is
with these views and hopes—( Hear, hear, hear)—and the
hopes of contributing to such a settlement which shall
be conducive to these feelings, that I have now
the honour to move that it is expedient to commute
tithes for composition in Ireland, to a rent charge payable by
by the first estate of inheritance, and to further provide for the
better regulation of ecclesiastical duties. The Noble Lord
sat down amid loud cheers.
Sir R. PEEL—The Noble Lord has concluded his clear and
able speech by moving resolutions which according to the expla-
nations he has given of the terms of these resslutions, and his
intention of moving them, do not, as I apprehend, involve the
House, or any part of it, in any necessity of expressing their dis-
sent to those resolutions. Understanding from the Noble Lord
the Secretary of the Home Department to declare on Friday last
that these resolutions were framed with a view of avoiding the
necessity on first submitting them to the consideration
of the House, of a hostile position. ( Hear, hear.) In the
present state of the House, and considering die absolute neces-
cessity for future discussion, I will not enter into the subject
but in acquiescing in the form of the pressnt resolutions
I imust not be considered 'as waiving any objections.