The Sun.
London, England, 1836-06-21 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY. JUNE 21, 1836.

f.iscur of tl.e Government I: eavire for rvg,u-

::ii;g the excise I:censeg in Scotland.

PARISH CLERKS.
Tiio Right HOA. BARONET said he had another petition to
preseta fr•.n► certain parties calling then►selves the Ineorpo-
:ated Soci.•tv_of Parish Clerks, stzting the very great hard-

- -
ship they would sustain by the Bill respecting the registration
births and marriages passing without provision being
made for allowing them compenwion.—( Hear, hear.) They
stated that their offices were freehold, and that many of them
had relinquished other employments in the full persuasion that
their tigh:s would be protected, or if not, that an equivalent

would he given them. They sugg:sted that in any measure
connected with registration, their situation would be taken into
consideration, as many of the petitioners were advanced in life
and had no other means of procuring their subsistence. They
concluded by praying the House to take their case into their
most favourable consideration.

GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY.
Mr. A. SANDFORD moved that the amendments made
by the House of Lords, oa this BM, be agreed to.

After a few words from Mr. PRYSIE the ►notion was
agreed to.
MUNICIPAL 'CORPORAVONS ACT.
On the motion of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL the'
Lords' amendment; in this B►ll were ordered to be t:tken i..ta

consideration on Friday next.
PAPER DUTIES.

Mr. lILTNI-E • gave notice, that whenever the Chan-
cellor or the Exchequer proposed to reduce the duties
upon paper, be would submit a motion to the effect
that a drawback be allowed on the stock in hand, agreeably
to the prayer of the petitions he was about to present.
TAXES ON KNOWLEDGE. _ _

The lion. MEMBER said in the mean time he would present
two petitions from Glasgow, praying for the total repeal of
the stamp duty on Newspapers.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN presented a petition from Galway
in favour of a system of poor-laws for Ireland.
Mr. POTTER presented two Fetitions for the repeal of the
duty on Newspaper-4.
Mr. ROEBUCK and some other lloN. MEMBERS pre-
sented petitions to the same effect.
Mr. Sr,,rjeant JACKSON presented a petition from Cork,
for the better observance of the Sabbath.

Mr. WAK LEY presented 63 petitions from various towns,
horoughp, and districts in England, for the total repeal of the
stamp duty on Newspapers. In no one of them was the pro-
position of the Hon. Member for Northamptonshire ever
hinted at, and such a proposition could be considered in no
other light than as an insult to the people of England,
and he trusted it would not be sanctioned or tolerated n that
..lratisp.÷( Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. HAWES presented a petition from the Mechanics'
Institution of South Lambeth to the same effect.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Lord STANLEY begged to ask the Noble Lord (J. ,Rus-
sell) whether it was his intention to bring in any measure on
the subject of Church rates during the present Session.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that it would entirely depend on
the decision of the House of Commons as to the expediency of

appropriating any portion of the Church revenues as a substitute
for Church rates. The Report of .the Committee had not yet
been printed, and he did not think the opinion of this House
could be had in sufficient time to enable the Government to
bring in a measure during the present Session. His opinion
on the question remained unchanged, and if a Bill was not
introduced this Session it would early in the ensuing one.
Mr. lIUME said the country expected. a definite answer
from the Government as to their intention, upon this question ;
he did not think the answer of the Noble Lord would
be deemed satisfactory to the Dissenters.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was quite aware of the anxiety
which prevailed i►mongst the Dissenters upon this subject.
They were already in possession of his sentiments on the
question ; and he could only. repeat, that his opinion
was unchanged. Lord Althorp, when he brought in
his Bill, said that he could not consent to abolish
Church rates, unless a substitute was found ; and, until
this was provided for, no measurd could be brought in.
Mr. HUME said the Deans and Chapters had money
enough to form a fund for the purpose.
WAR IN SPAIN.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having
moved the Order of the Day for the House going into Com-
mittee on the Stamp Duties,
Mr. GROVE RICE said he wished to know from the
Noble Lord opposite, whether this country was one of the bel-
ligerent parties now carrying on the war in Spain ; and if so,
whether we were called parties to the war under the names 'of
intervention, non-intervention, or any other. Had the Noble
Lord entered into any arrangements for a cartel of prisoners?
Lord PALMERSTON said this country was acting under
engagements entered into with Spain and other Powers, under
the articles of a treaty.
Mr. G. PRICE said only one part of his question had
been answered. Was there any arrangement for a cartel of
prisoners, case any of his Majesty's forces should have the
misfortune to fall into the hands of the opposite party ?
Lord PA LNIE RSTON'S answer was very indistinct. We
understood him to say that of course they would be entitled
to the benefit of the stipulations of Lord Elliott's treaty.
STAMP DUTIES. _ _

The House then ;ant into Committee—Mr. BRRNAL in the
Chair.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose
and said, that on a former occasion he had taken the liberty of
stating his general views on the subject of the reduction of
duties on Stamps. To that statement the Hon. Baronet
the Member for South Northampton expressed an intention
to propose to the House another proposition for the reduc.
tion of the duties on Soap. On that occasion, he (the
Cltneell.r of-the _Exchoquer) prornised to take the stiseossion
in such a shape as to enable the House fairly to consider the
motion of the Hon. Baronet, and as the House had now re-
solved itself into a Committee of the whole House, the Hon.
Baronet would be enabled to bring the subject forward.
The course which he meant to pursue on the present
occasion was simply to move a single resolution :
It 'was expedient that the duty on Newspapers should be
reduced front 4d., less the discount, to W.—this being a reso-
lution in Committee of the whole House. If his resolution
should be carried, it would become an instruction to the Com-
mittee upon the Stamp Duties Bill to make alterations
in the Bill accordingly. In the resolution he should pre-
sently move, he reserved those disputed -questions which had
been matter of discussion between the Right Honourable
Baronet and himself—also as to the size of the News-
papers, or anything of that kind. He thought that it
was much better to deal with those questions separately,
and to bring fairly before the House the plain and intelligible
principle on which he proposed to proceed. With this object
in view, and also for the purpose of affording the lionout able
Bart., an opportunity of moving his amendment, he would
move that the duty now payable on Newspapers should be
removed, and that the future duty payable on every piece of
paper whereupon a Newspaper was printed, be a duty of Id„
subject to such provisions with respect to size of the News_
paper supplement, and so on, as may be provided by any Act
passed in the present session.
Sir C. KNIG lITL EY then rose to move the amendment of
which lie had given notice. A similar motion had been made
' by the Hon. Member fur Lincolnshire some time ago, and the
only reason alleged by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
fur not agreeing to it at that time AS, that the state of the
finances would not permit him to make so large a reduction with
safety to the public creditor. He (Sir C. Knightleyl propos-
ed that a small portion only of the duty on Soap should be taken
off, and which would in his opinion be much more beneficial
than reducing the duty on Newspapers. First, it would be
greatly beneficial to the farmers, as it would increase the con_
sumption of Soap, and must consequently increase the demand
fur home produce, as the fat of animals was stied in its
manufacture.—(Hear, hear, hear, and great laughter.)
It might be said that the farmers did not require relief, and lie
( Sir C. Kuightley) admitted that they were in a more pros-
perous state than they had been ; but still it was only a gleam of
sunshine in the midst of their distresses.—( Ironical cheers.)
At one time when they asked relief to a large amount, they
were told it could not be granted, and now when they asked a
small boon he trusted it would not be refused.—(Opposition
cheers.) He believed there was no instance of a farmer com-
plaining of the price of Newspapers ; while there was not a.
farmer in England who would not rejoice at the duty being re-
duced er altogether taken off Soap. If he ( Sir C. Knightley)
were to vote for the repeal of the duty on Newspapers, instead of
the duty on Soap, how could he face the farmers and ask them
for a vote ?—( A laugh.) Would they not point out to their daugh-
tecaosel
,hnonuluile;
offoidpenrrures:ooi
iyeill:nt:f ctg,ho?daoa_ueisf
fnins,evtdefe:aro.,esileAuv).,‘en:vplis, who could not procure clean garments on a
therelas;
a,letsicghrteeociah:;:.rtla.dtti)iasiinei
had
idtelnli,y,
iolre,ittataroicLeipilea:eortverelinslelisaetd,un.rdmoemeiednneluia:g,tt,r,Ni,hirl:lleticossialwitffibtnois‘iedi.lepillaotoratiodbm:pveialesdilridin(rosl,sgniwbinndt..eeyal-cdeeaticert
Ealeifbgtilvreylae,i
ic:bdnivnemaugi
withdld ioco nattrrhintleoae,
t
th
ll
Weekly Papers, and Literary Publications, down to the Penny
Magazine. The reading of the list excited much laughter.]
These papers were taken in in London. and after they were
read they were sent to all parts of England—he fancied at a
greatly reduced price—less by half. To be sure they were
rather blotted and thumbed for want of Soap.—( Loud
laughter.) But what did the London papers say? Why,
the Times, the Standard, the Morning Post, and the
e ? "freoairn.) the Globe newspaper ( T
Moroni!' Herald, were on his side of the question.—('A
Hon
.___(A laugh, l
)
Honourable
And what, he would ask, was said by the papers on the other
auur
side—thelaroner here Globe
read, for
a in
deprecating the removal of the Stamp Duties upon News-
longsta ne
extract
pipers.) That paper (he went on to state) was supposed to
be the organ of the Government.—(Bear, hear, and loud
laughter.) What, on the other hand, was the opinion of those
rho were engaged in the Soap trade ? (The Honourable
Baronet here read an extract from a set of resolutions
passed by the Society of Soap Manufacturers, calling upon
the Chancellor of the Exchequer to reduce the duty on Soap).
One of the argenienta used by the Chancellor cf the Excite-
quer was,
that the penny ditty would, front the great in-
crease, in the circulation, produce as much as the present
duty of three-pence farthing.—(Hear, hear.) This would
make good for 'Soap, if the Report of the Commissioners was
good for anything, It was for the House to say which was
the best.—( A laugh.) Ile had gone on a Saturday night
to the Post-office out of curiosity, In order to see the
mails, and he had frequently aeon them so very heavily
laden that it was dangerous to travel by thorn, Ho enquired
the cause, and was told that it was owing to the immense
quantity of Newspapers. If, therefore, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer was right in saying that. the penny stamp would
produce quite as much as the threepence-farthing stamp,
it must follow that the quantity of Newspapers would be tre-
bled ; and if so, there must be a'tax raised for their convey-
ance. This was a tax which pressed 'wavily or t4e poor
luao paying the same duty ns the rich man:— ear, hear.)

IL: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer to reduce
the ditty 75 per cent. for the poor man, and 35 per cent.
for the rich one. He asked for the reduction of this duty on
behalf of the farmer and the poor maa.—( Cheers.) Ile
asked the House to improve the mind of the people by
purify ing the body.—( Cries of Hear, hear. ) Ile moved
that the duty on hard Soap be reduced from,' Ad. to Id., and
the dray on soft Soap from id. to one farthing.
Mr. C. BARC L A Y seconded the motion. He felt satisfied
that the proposed reduction of the duty on soap (allowing for
the increased consumption that would be result of it) would
not occasion a loss to the revenue of more than 122,0001., and
he believed that the reduction of the Newspaper Duty would
occasion a defalcation to the amount of at least 125,0001. The
excise regulations on the Soap manufacturers were also so op-
pressive that they led to the greatest injustice, and were car-
ried into effect in a manner to enhance the price of Soap.
( Heats hear.) The greatest benefit had already resulted from
the reduction of the duty that was made in 1833, and above all
to the country manufacturers. The increase of the amount of
Soap made by the country manufacturers was not less than 70
per cent. At the same time he admitted that there had been
a falling off in the produce of the London and Scotch manu-
factures. By the improvements that had been made in the
manufacture of Soap, small manufacturers could produce it as
readily as those possessed of large capital ; the consequence
was that a great number of illicit manufactures existed
in various parts of the country. Many persons avoided
the payment of duty and were thus enabled to un-
dersell those who paid it ; and thus the latter were
often ruined.—( Hear, hear.) He certainly did not anti
cipate that the reduction of the Soap Duty would afford
any great relief to the landed interest. He supported the mo-
tion of the Hon. Baronet, because he thought that by carry-
ing it the honest man who paid the tax would be relieved
from what he now suffered from competing with the illicit
manufacturer.—( Hear, bear.) He was also satisfied that it
would lead to many improvements in the manufacture of Soap,
by getting rid of those regulations which were imposed in
consequence of the present high duty.—( Hear, hear.) lie
entertained at the same time .strong objections to the reduc-
tion of the tax on Newspapers. One of the arguments which
had been urged by the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer in justification of his proposition was, that it was
almost impossible to put in force the Act of Parliament im-
posing penalties upon those who invaded the revenue by print-
ing or selling Unstamped Papers. He was convinced if the
Government were sincerely desirous to put the law in force,
arid were determined to punish those who infringed it, that
they would have to contend with no great difficulties.—( Hear,
hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman must be perfectly aware
that every printer was compelled to put his name at the
bottom of every printed sheet, and that the presser were
also registered. He repeated, he had little doubt but
but that the duty might be enforced ; but, unfortunately,
in conformity with the spirit of the age, resistance was
made to those duties which were unpopular.—( Hear,
hear.) He could not help reminding the House of a Noble
Lord having stated, when the Reform Bill was under discussion,
that until that measure was passed he would resist the pay.
ment of taxes; and also that the Honourable Member in that
House had declared that if the Stamp Duty was not taken off
Newspapers, he would always have unstamped ones on his
breakfast table, and that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
might put the law in force at his peril. After such language
had fallen from persons in the higher classes, it was not at all
surprising that the ignorant should adopt thou and feel them-
selves justified in violating the law.—( Hear, hear.) He be-
lieved that,every person who now enjoyed the right of voting
had ample means of obtaining Newspapers, either by means of
public-houses or reading-rooms, which were now established
in all the towns in England. There were many other taxes
which it was more desirable to repeal than this, and he had no
doubt that the Right Hon. Gentleman would have devoted any
surplus he had to another purpose, had it not been for the cir-
cumstance that some twenty or thirty Members who generally
sit behind the Ministerial Bench opposite went to the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and had used most extraordinary lan-
guage, and even threatened to withdraw their support if this
proposition was not conceded to them.—( Hear, hear.) The
fact was that the Newspapers which would be circulated if the
Duty was taken off would not be addressed to those who had
the right of voting, but to those who did not possess the elec-
tive franchise, and threats would constantly be made of resort-
ing to physical force for the attainment of particular ends, in
a way which they recently often heard in that House. It had
been demanded that justice should be conceded to England, and
justice should be granted to Ireland ; but he would reply—yes
—but when the people ask you for justice, you give them a
stone. ( Laughter, and • cries of " Hear.") He concluded
with seconding the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that,
in replying to the observations made by the Hon. Baronet, the
Member for Northamptonshire, he should not only state his
objections to the amendment, but, at the same time, he shouid
also give the reasons which induced him to prefer his own
proposition and to recommend it to the House, and which he
trusted would induce the House to sanction it. Before, how -
eser, he went into the observations which he intended to make
on this part of the subject, he would make a few remarks in
reply to what had fallen from his Hon. Friend who had just
sat down. The Hon. Member had asserted that he (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not bring forward the pro-
position which he had submitted to the House, in consequence
of preferring it, but because it had been forced on him by a
certain number of Members of Parliament who sat behind
him, and who generally gave their support to the Government.
In reply to this assertion, he would only say that he never
would make a proposition in that [louse which he did not
conscientiously think would be for the benefit of the coun-
try.—(llear, hear.) Let there be a confederacy on the
one side for obtaining the total abolition of the Stamp Duty
ma Newspapers, and on-the Inner sitlC the
the present duty, and instead of it a reduction of the Soap
Duty, he would merely say that it was his duty to do that
which he believed to be most beneficial, without regard to
the consideration, whether his proposition would be success-
ful or not, on this side of the House or the other. The lion.
Gentleman had very slightly observed what had been going
'on, if he thought that the proposition had been forced on
him. During the sixteen years that lie had been in Parlia-
ment, he bad never met with so much abuse and obloquy,
both spoken and written, as had recently been heaped upon
bins by certain Hon. Gentlemen, in consequence of the
scheme which he had proposed, and thus either to dis-
suade him from bringing it forward, or to induce him to
withdraw it, and make a proposition of a very different kind.
—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Surrey had at least
rendered it less necessary that he should make any observa-
tions on one part of the speech of the Hon. Baronet ; for he
(Mr. Barclay) said, with perfect truth, that if he were asked
whether the adoption of the proposition of the Hon. Ba-
ronet could be regarded as a boon to the agricultural interests,
that he would reply that he did not, for one moment, suppose
that there was any ground for such an assumption : for that lie,
as a practical man, did not believe that it would give them
any relief. The Hon. Baronet, in proposing a reduc-
tion of the duty on soft Soap, was most liberal, for no por-
tion of the agricultural interest could, in the slightest degree,
be benefitted by it; for nearly all the soft Soap that was manu-
factured in this country was made from oils which were the
produce of other countries, and which were imported
for the purpose.—( Hear, hear.) But the proposition which
the lion. Baronet had brought forward was inexpedient as a
financial measure.
,He objected to it on this point, on grounds
which he would very shortly state to the Committee. In the
first place, the Soap Duty was a gradually increasing tax,
while the Stamp Duty on Newspapers was a diminishing
duty. lie contended, therefore, that lie was justified on every
sound principle of finance in pursuing the course which he
proposed, when he found from the finance statement on the
table that the duty on Soap was going on increasing, while
the productive amount of the Newspaper Duty was diminish-
ing.—( Hear.) He would not detain the House very loug
with this plan of the subject, but he would direct the atten-
tion of Hon. Gentlemen to the comparative duties on Soap
and Newspapers within the last few years. He would take
the years 1831 and 1835. In the year 1831, the quantity of
hard Soap on which duty was paid was 109,000,00001b5. In
1833, the quantity had increased to 135,000,000,b5. With
respect to soft Soap, which appeared to have been selected by
the lion. Member as a special object for his protection, there
had been a &eat increase in the consumption. Ia 1831,
the quantity of soft Soap on which duty was paid was
9,600,0001b5., and in 1835 the quantity was 12,103,0001b5,
shelving an increase of nearly a fourth in a very short interval
of time. The Stamp Duty on Newspapers did not show the
same result. In 1831 the amount of duty on Newspapers was
483,000/., while in 1835 it had diminished to 455,000/. This,
he contended, was a very considerable reduction.—( Hear,
hear.) The next element for consideration was whether they
should give relief in one quarter or the other—whether they
slierild give something to that to which a considerable share
of relief had already been afforded, or to an article which was
placed under a disproportionate duty, and which was strug-
gling under a heavy tax.—( Hear.) it happened with respect,
to the Soap duty, that it was reduced one-half a few years
ago, on the proposal of his Noble Friend Lord Spencer, who
was then Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Soap duty was
then reduced to the rate which was paid during the reign of
Queen Anne. The Stamp duty on Newspapers was kept up
to the highest amount of duty ever imposed. He, therefore,
would not add to the relief already given to the Soap trade,
but would give it where it had not previously been afforded.
The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the very great increase
that would take place in the consumption of Soap, if his pro-
position was carried. Now he (the Chancellor of the Usehe.
quer) was prepared to show, that no very great increase would
take place in the consumption of that article, if the resolution
of the Honourable Baronet was carried ; but that a loss to the
public revenue would be occasioned, of not less thse
260,000/. a year.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Baronet,
in order to prove this, referred to the authority of the Com-
missioners appointed to inquire into the operation of the Excise
jaws, and which, he had pointedly urged, had been appointed
by 'the present Government • and that, therefore, he (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) should attend to their recom-
mendation. But he would ask the Hon. Gentleman whether
he wai prepared to assent to carrying all the recommendt.tip,ns
of the gßiPtiiiitsiopprs into effect 3 and Wee especially with
respect to the Soap trade ? For instanpe, would he propose,
as they recernmerided, that the Soap Duty should be extended
to Ireland ? The Hon, Hammes called upon the House to
vote for a proposition which, he said, was recommended by the
Commissioners ; but from fear of not obtaining the support of
certain Irish Members to this phr,.o..p, oesointicogiul,s.ihvee
taobsttlincm,dinfdropmf
saying that he would support the other recommendation, that
the Soap Duty should be extended to Ireland.—(Hear.)
He had, however, on this subject, in possession
ments whiciltiihe thought would Lcu-
othwen
osTteiomnb.er,Thwehyo
hmaidg ht be supposed wpthipd
1140'14 4 reduction of
one-half of the rarift 444y,—wildf, from 3d. to lid. per
lb. fie ty9,ul'd qouse to consider 'what effect this
to his
reduction 110 44 a 4 regark4 increase in ;he eon-

sumption of Soap, .and then judgcr what would be the- eff ct
in making a further reduction. Sic.ce the duty had been
reduced to lid. per lb., there had been an incroa7e in the
consumption of soap of about 10;000,000 ib3. To make out
the ca,e,, then, which had been stated by the lion. Gen-
tleman, he. must show that although the reduction of 11,1.
a lb. duty had produced an increased consumption
10,000,000 lbs., that a reduction of a halfpenny a lb. would

. ,
produce an increased consumption of 60,000,000 lbs. a year.
He had already said that the Soap duty had been reduced to
the minimum which was paid when the tax was first imposed,
namely by the 7th of Anne. In 1782, the tax was increased two
pence farthing a ;in 1816, it was increased to twopence half-
penny; and in 1818, it was increased to three pence; and in
1834 it was reduced to three-halfpence a lb., the same am,,unt

of duty that was paid in the reign of Queen Anne. 'With re-
spect to the impediments which the excise rogulations threw
in the way of the soap manufacturrrs, he had a few remarks
to make. Ile should be sorry if his Non. Friend the Mem-

her for Surrey suppoied that he (the Chancellor of the
Exch,:quer) did not think the laws regulatinq the Snap trade

did not require alteration. —( Hear, hea—r:) He admitted that it

did, and he felt satisfied that if it could be altered, it would

give great relief to the trade. These regulations were only
juitifiahle on the score of affording security to tho revenue,

and if these restrictions could be removed without injury
to the revenue it would be the duty of Government to do so.
lie hoped that, if nut during the present session, at le:.st at

:he commencement of the next session, he should be able to
"lumina, a Bill to make certain alterations in the law as rc-

larded the restrictions in this trade, as to anrd relief to the

Soap manufacturers.—( Hear, hear.) There was nothing,
however, in the statement of the Hon. Gentleman to justify
the reduction of the duty, in the assumption that there would
be an increase of consumption ; and above all, when there was
another and more pressing object which required the atten-
tion of the House. So much for Soap—he would now pro-
ceed to the more material question before the House. He
believed that they would then have heard little respecting
the reduction of the Soap Duty, if it had not happened.
both in that House and out of it there were komutemen who
were altogether opposed to the rednetlon of the duty on
Newspapers.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon, Member for Surrey
probably entertained that opinion, at ho cheered the observa-
tion. °He believed that the fact was, that the reduction of the
Soap duty had been startod against that of the Newspaper
duty ; and if the latter had not been proposed, they would
not have heard a word from Gentlemen opposite respecting
the former. The real question they had to ask was, whether
the House was prepared to agree to a reduction of the Stamp
Duty on Newspapers? He asked for the deliberate judgment
of the House on this subject—ho asked them to weigh well
the arguments which he should adduce on the subject, and
he trusted that he should be able to induce each party to give
up something by allowing that the public interest required it.
Ho bad to contend against two classes of opponents. He did
not bring forward his proposition as a means of getting popu-
larity, for he had only met with vituperation and attack for
having brought it forward, and with the strongest opposition
from those who on former occasions originated motions simi-
lar to that which he now submitted to the House. The pro-
position he made did not originate with the view of gaining
popularity, but was a giant and concession to public necessity
and expediency. He thought that there would be no difficulty
in showing that if they left the duty on Newspapers as it was,
that they would run the risk of finding the opposition carried
much farther than it now was. It might lead to a general
violation of the law, and a general disposition to encourage
those illegal publications. It also should be recollected that
allowing things to remain as they-were would be a want of
justice on the part of the Legislature towards those parties
who paid the duty.—( Hear, hear.) He would address one
argument on this part of the subject to both parties—to the
class that objected to any reduction in the tax of Newspapers,
and to those who demanded the whole abolition of it, and
who objected to any duty. First, then, to the Honourable
Gentlemen who objected to any reduction. He had already
said that the amount of duty on Newspapers had been in a
gradual course of diminution since 1831. In that year the
amount of duty was 483,0001. ; in 1832 it was 473,000/. ; in
1833 it was 445,000/. ; in 1834 it was 441,000/. ; and in 1835
there had been an increase in a trifling degree, for the duty
was 455,000/. So that there had been a gradual reduction in
the amount of duty for some years ; and that under circum-
stances which he believed that any Hon. Gentleman would
admit warranted the supposition that there would have been
an increase. He would ask whether the education of the
people had diminished, their anxiety for information lessened?
—( Hear, hear, hear.) There could be no doubts as to the
facts of the case. It was a matter of regret on one side, it
was a subject of rejoicing on the other, that the thirst for po-
litical information had been greatly increased by the political
changes which had recently been made. If something did
not impede this species of knowledge, the amount of the tax,
instead of showing a diminution, would exhibit a great in-
crease. In this, as in other cases, the revenue had sustained
a loss, in consequence of the duty having been raised beyond
the legitimate amount which should have been imposed.—
( Hear.) Gentlemen were aware that the Stamp Duty was
first imposed in 1712, and was at the time strongly opposed
by some great authorities. The opponents to the Newspaper-
tax which he alluded to were not great Radicals or innova-
tors, or in any way not attached to the institutions of the coma:-
try m .but the great opponent was Mr. Addison, who then tilled
the office of Secretary of State.—( Hear, hear.) He antici-
pated what was soon realized—that the duty which was pro-
posed to impose, and which was comparatively a high one,
would lead to a decay of this branch of literature. In a paper
in the Spectator, of the date of the Ist of August, 1712, the
day the tax came into operation, he makes the following ob-
serrations :--- .
" This iS-the day on which many eminent authors will pro•
putrittArr.- wuras.- -r alli alTaTa ram tew or our
weekly historians, who are men that, above all others, delight
in war, will be able to subsist under the weight of a stamp and
an approaching peace. * * * *
In short, the necessity of carrying a stamp, and the impro-
bability of notifying a bloody battle will, I am afraid, both
concur to the sinking of those thin folios which have every
other day retailed to us the history of Europe for several years
last past. A facetious friend of mine, who loves a pun, calls
this present mortality among authors the fall of the leaf.' "
( Hear, hear.) There was still the same effect which Mr.
Addison complained would flow from the tax. It might
easily be shown that but for this tax there would be a much
greater number of Newspapers printed and sold, and Mr.
Addison had shown, in the first instance, it bad led to the
same result. But did Hon. Gentlemen entertain doubts as
to whether the people were anxious for the species of know-
ledge diffused by Newspapers.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposi-
tion.) If Hon. Gentlemen did, let them boldly own it.—
( Hear.) But the truth was, that they were afraid to trust
the people with this species of information.—(Cheers from the
Ministerial benches.) But he would not be a party to with-
hold it from them. The Hon. Member said that the people
had already the means of obtaining the species of knowledge
conveyed in Newspapers, and he said, let them go to the
public-house or the coffee-shop, and they would see a great
number of Newspapers of all parties for a very trifling sum.
The Hon. Member read a list of papers which were furnished
to a coffee-shop: There was the Standard for one party, and
the Morning ( hronicle for the other ; and he heard the
Lancet mentioned in the list of papers read. For his part,
however, he would rather that the poor man should have the
Newspap'er in his cottage than that he should be sent to the
public-house to read it.—( Hear, hear.) He knew that at pre-
sent the Newspaper was one of the great attractions to tal;a
the poor man from home to visit the publie-h0u5e,,....( Hear,
hear.) If, therefore, the adoption of this preposition tended
to keep the poor man at home, it would anbrd a great moral
aid to the improvement of the people. He had the authority
of Dr. Johnson for saying that the diffusion of knowledge
amongst the people by means of Newspapers was the most
efficient mode.—( Hear, hear.) He believed, however, that
there had been a great deal of exaggeration on this subject.
He was of opinion that Newspapeis were not absolutely ne-
cessary for the diffusion of knowledge—( Hear, bear, from the
Opposition beneheq—and he had heard that it had been stated
by parties out of doors that the diffusion of all useful know-
ledge was confined to Newspapers. This was an exaggeration
as great as that on the other side, which said that no useful
knowledge could be obtained from Newspapers. Newspapers
afforded the means of diffusing political knowledge, and that
of a very important character, but he denied that it was the
main means. There was knowledge of a higher claret
than could be conveyed in this way. There was a definition
of knowledge by one of much greater influence and authority
than himself—he meant Lord 114Nn--wilich showed that it
was of a higher nature than (mould be conveyed by means of
the columns Of a Newspaper :
u knowledge is not a couch whereupon to rest a searching
and restless spirit ; or a terrace, for a wandering and variable
mind to walk up and down with a fair prospect; or a tower of
state for a proud mind to raise itself upon ; or a fort or com-
mending ground for strife and contention ; or a shop for profit
or sale ; but a rich storehouse for the glory of the Creator,
ar.d the relief of man's estate."—(Cries of " Hear, hear I")
Suppose that he were fur a moment, for argument's sake,
merely to assent to the proposition of Honourable Members
opposite—suppose that he were, for argument's sake, to
assume that the free circulation of political knowle;l2e, by
means of. Newspapers, was an evil, and that restrietlons ought
to be put on this extended promulgation of that species of
knowledge ; assuming thia, he would still ask Hon. Members
—looking at the present state of the law, and the practices
which wont on in spite of it—whether they thought it would
be possible to keep up the exclusive circulation of what they
were pleased to consider as the only sound political knowledge,
by the means of high-priced Newspapers.—( Hear, hear.) Cer-
tainly not. On the contrary, it was well known that in the
metropolis, and through all the ramificatious of trade through •
out the country, an active agency was constantly and neces-
sal ily kept in operation for the purpose of violating the Inw.
and of extending throughout the community, not Nesno,papers
such as he contemplated, paying a Staten puty to Govern-
ment, but Newspapers paying tea Stamp Duty, got up, printed,
published, and upon an organised plan, by parties
%V 11Q cat C4ltritlt thO express purpose of violating the law, and
who in consequence of the cheapness of their (commodity suc-
ceeded but top generally in doing 50,--( Hear, bear.) Now,
he was far from being opposed to the principle of cheap News-
papers but ho was decidedly opposed to illegal Newspapers,
and to the violation of the law. He was opposed to them, in
the first place, because the parties who we7.engage,
a such
practices were, necessarily, not Pers"s • or qualified to
diffuse sound instruction among people ; for no man of
honest principle end s coeta .
the di,•'—` hq
un-
gelf to practices involving
•
violation of the laws of his country. It was, how-
ever, a matter of certainty, that to a very large extent
indeed, cheap publications of that character were diffused
throughout the country, confided to the management of per-
sons who approached the subject with a full knowledge that_
they were violating time law, and subjecting themselves to fine/
and imprisonment ; and, moreover, addressed to a market con-
fined to a class of persons who were fully aware that the com-

inwlity purchased by them was an illegal one.—(Hear, licar.)
l'h's was a state of thin is which those who desired to
keep
up the character of the Press must be most anxious to put an
end to, but which was not to be put an end to by retaining
Newspapers.—( Hear, hear.) He would just state
to the house the extent to which this system has Iready gone.
The total number of stamps taken out for English Newspaperi
in the twelve months appeared from the returns to be thirty.
six millions. Now, upon one single occasion, when the °C I.
cers connected with the Stamp Office effected a seizure, they
found, on the Thursday, an incomplete publication of an un-
stamped Newspai er, which was to be given out on the Sag
turday, but which, even on the Thursday, when incompletOt
amounted to not fewer than forty thousand in number.—a( Heat',
hear.) Thus it appeared, that one single unstamped Nova,
paper had created for itself an annual circulation of upwards
of two millions, being equal to one-eighteenth part of the
whole circulation of all the stamped Newspapers of the
country.—( Hear, hear.) Such was the present condition of
the unstamped Press. and it was understood that the pa; ties
engaged in the traffic entertained every prospect of gre44
e:itending the trade.--( Hear, hear.) 1n reference to than
Newspapers, he had been placed in a singularly uti‘lotunate
position between the tires of two parties, one of which abused
him for going too far, the other attacking him for not going
far enough in his endeavours to repress this illegal traffic,
Whenever the subject had been mooted he had been charged,
and justly charged, if it were a charge, by Members on big
own side of the House, with enforcing the law to the utmost
extent against the violators of the Stamp Acts, and 'with
having dealt out fine and imprisonment with too harsh hand ;
while from the other sick of the House he hail ber,n violently
inveighed against for not enforcing the law to file utmost ex-
tent, and for not dealing out fine and imprisonment. He could
only say, that it had been his end
means to assert the law, ar.-3 protect the honest trader, by
putting in force 4!avour by every possible
P. 1.1. the enactments against the dishonest
trader ;
17.... t he had found it quite impossible effectually to put
d',.yrn the contraband trade. In addition to these he had had
another party to deal with—a party most vigilant in their ob-
servation of the proceedings of Government—he alluded to the
stamped Press itself, who had every right to come to Govern-
ment and say, We paj, all the duties imposed on us by the
law, and thereby contribute largely to the financial resources
of the country, and we therefore require of you that you
equally enforce obedience to the law upon all our competitors.
With these parties lie had been in constant communication
and upon the first occasion they had complained that the efforts
of Government to check the evil had not been sufficiently
strenuous. He had put to them to suggest any mode confor-
mable with law, by which they conceived the proceedings Of
the Unstamped Press could be checked both in town and
country, but nothing had been pointed out adequate to. the
emergency. Again, after exerting every means in theft
power to repress this illegal trade, Government applied to the
law officers of the Crown, stating what had been done, all
asking their directions as to any further proceedingA, and-
were informed by these functionaries that they had alreraiy
resorted to all the means afforded by the existing law for
preventing the publication of Unstamped Newspapers. The
law officers' of the Crown at the same time stated that the
existing law was altogether ineffectual to the purpose. One
of the greatest difficulties to which they were exposed wag
as to the proof of the printing. The kw certainly laid it
down that .the names of the printer and publisher should
be affixed to every paper, but there was no guard against
such names being either forgeries or altogether fictiti-
ous, and this species of fraud was committed every day.
Every law which bore upon the printing, the publishiri, and
the distribution of unstamped Newspapers had been enforced
with that strictness which Government considered due to the
law and to the honest trader, but though many individuals
offending against the law had: been punished, and many
seizures made of the illegal publications, the system had n°t,
been materially checked. On the contrary, the principle of
the system had been promoted, in consequence of the sy.ni-
patby which the persons punished succeeded in creating
through the country in their behalf.—( Hear, hear.) fir.
Cleave, for instance, had been, for repeated violations of the
law, four times fined and twice imprisoned, and what was the
consequence ? :Who, no sooner was it known that be bad
been amerced in the penalties laid down by the Act, than
throughout the country subscriptions were set on foot., for
the purpose of paying them. off. Thus, not only era the
law violated, but the party violating it- was made ttle object
of general sympathy and support.—( Hear, hoer.) There
had been prosecutions for printing, prosecutions for publish-
ing, prosecutions for selling in the %bop, and prosecu-
tions for selling in the street; but all these efforts bad
failed to effect the desired result, Not but that convictions
had been obtained—not but that there had been inflicted
imprisonment and fines on the persons convicted, and
that much individual suffering has been the result, and
had attracted much of public sympathy. Within a feW
months not fewer than 110 persons had been convicted and
punished for selling unstamped Newspapers in shops, and 300
persons for selling them in the streets, but all without pro-
ducing any practical removal of the evil ; for no sooner was
one man put into prison for these illegal practices, than ano-
ther was readily found to supply his place._( Hear.) The
Hon. Member for Surrey had but to consult the records
of Kingston gaol to see how the evil had been felt in that
part of the country as well as every where else. Indeed,
through the whole of the country, the circulation of un-
stamped Newspapers was going rapidly forward, for the law as
it at present stood was altogether inadequate to repress the.
practice. The question was then whether some means ought
not to be adopted for putting an end to this state of things:
Hear, hear.) In reference to the charge of remissness
which had been brought against Government he. wee.'
on the other side ofrho !iii.grt- mention that a
fifenumber of prosecutions had been brought fe,eward by
Ille present tiovernment for violations of the law in this re-
spect than had been carried into effect during the time that,
the - Right Hon. Member opposite was at the head
the Administration. He did not meutie,n this with any view
to assume greater merit in this respect than was due to the
former Administration, but merely in the desire to show that
the endeavours of the Intsent Government to repress violations
of the law had been to the full as great as those of any other
Government.—(Hear.) But it might be said ,‘ We admit
all this, we admit that the law is not sufficiently strong to
meet the case ; we admit that you have done all that lay in
you for the purpose of enforcing the law ; we admit the large
accumulation of unstamped Newspapers ; but we tell you the
remedy will not be found in the reduction of the duty, hetrii
the increased severity of new enactments."—( Hear, bear'
Now he for one would not consent to take any steps towaL
increasing the severity of the law, in any case where he ;
lieved it would be altogether ineffectual to the purpose LI.
which it was intended, and where he believed the same rest,''
would be obtained by other and better means.—(Hear, bear.)
He felt convinced that while they continued to impose a de.t,,lir
of 100 per cent. upon Newspapers, any increased sevllt
would be altogether ineffectual against the determined sP'l
which existed among the • parries who got up the unstamped
Newspapers, and the feeling which they provided for, the
creased and increasing desire of the people for clezap P ,ill
tical knowledge and information.--( Hear, hear.) In the I:eh
which he had prepared, while it contained no the
wit
threw the slightest shackle on the liberty of the Press, °lre
was taken that if Parliament agreed to reduce the duty as
proposed, full means should be given to Government el !der
forcing the duty which remained, He could not but co e¢
that such a plan was the best, calculated to protect the Pghrees
who complied with the law, and contributed to the result
of the country, against the efforts of those who violated -r,
ch v
law. If this were a case of an ordinary revenue charade
he felt certain that the insisting upon so high a rate ce to
would be loudly protested against. He would now proceeded
state the grounds upon which he justified the retention et,P re,
of the duty. In the first place, he might observe, that 11:sk
doing he was maintaining the old duty, and bringiotf it of
to the amount at which it stood so long back as tie. reigniat
Queen Anne. The progress of the duty since that Perin.
had been, that upon the accession of George I. it'rlsis
creased to lid., in 1789 to 2d., in 1797 to WA., and to
to 4d. The proposition which he had made -in referent,
these duties, had proceeded upon the maturely cons,d'7„.
principle that while the continuteuce of the whole of the P
sent amount of duty was altogether impracticable, a larget7,l
jority of the House would ba found not to agree to the ~rer-
epeal of that duty.—( Hear, bear.) He had, therefoTe rola.
forts)d making a proposition which he was led to hope tiositioa
jority of the House would concur in, to making a
which he knew would not be supported by the " ;
( Hear, hear.) In retaining the penny stamp, he liadiliheNeici;osl
dined by the consideration that it was essential to ti G,_roug:o-
- press to enjoy the facility of a free circulation tni_..t
oU-
out the country by means of the post ; and to attain in' fa.
jest, it appeared to him that a penny stamp was the nif_stosea
vourable mode which could be adopted. If he had riaie-
the total abolition of these duties, it would have Lae' can
re,
pensable on his part to give up all idea of his pree_t; lost
duetion of the duty- on paper—a reduction which u. 1"- refer-
desirable, not only in reference to Newspapers, but
bear.)
ence to the interests of literature generally.—(Heat4,_ was.
Unde r these circumstances, he had conceived thawe:n. 010
doing Infinitely better in sharing the relief bet.oce trio
Newspaper Stamps and Paper, than in appropri
clegriuty
whole disposable surplus to the total repeal of
eha_vAc,
on Newspapers.—( Hear,
ment of knowledge equally with Newspapers, an
t° it
hear, hear.) Books vvedr
it liw;00
be doing an injustice to literature not to ca.tend_ll
that relief which would be afforded by the re_duee_t;alier
the Paper Duty. In proposing to reduce the
Stamp to one penny, he was not only
proposition, but he was snore liberal third. those who for
for
before. In the year 1825 his Hon. 'Friend the 1
ducini, the
Middlesex had, brought forward motion foreeliad
indeed
t in
trot singuiNla.r,:?r_otnil
Stamp
his
on Newspapers to twopence,
offewa his personal security to the then Governmen
the Chan-
that no loss would result to the revenue from suchd a
The generous offer, however, was not accepte
re,
ccipt of the
cellar of the Exchequer preferring the actual
bowrver
revenue of 450,0001. a year to any contingency,‘,kmb°er for Li
excellent security. Last session the Hon.
eech whicb'
ooln had brought forward another proposition,
tin ,
'Hear, hear)
those who heard it would not soon
forlglce a.ra.tuments upon
__in a speech contP.;ning the whole. oaftatted._( Hear. bear.)
the subject, et'finly, but most powerfully
nd cheered 1)1
dlesex, a
Hon. Member for Ait
09;liOti was t°
seconded by the eductioo.
for the
so many Members of
allowing that penny o
.t.te
What -was the propositihoien
Itiloieuistem?ov,eTC.th.dan:ptrhoepklon. enthe:,
reduce the duty to one peunlyt
`l ho proposition he
his
circulation ost.
circulation of the paper b
de to, by reason of the then
regret that he could not
halfaccetlso stated that he would taka trig
Chancellor of the
.‘ro-
of the financee, but he
l
bringing forward such
lie
earliest opportunity himself exchequer) phad, at the tame, express dstantte
for-
Hear.) He had broug
ble
now redeemed his pledge.—(
proposition which the fle:ioan.l.c ,
propd his desire to see Willi:
position. He trusted that the House tt null admit thatilt
beet' 17
because lie took that course—
tda4acridlibtehre
fdoirst
into effect. Yet now, bee,
distinct
teoalnnd hsapdeceixficpresse

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