The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-04 00:00:00

active portion of the House that were deaironq of change 9,
,nd that which, particularly in the present instance, was,
from the vicinity, and from the aggregated nature of their
constituency, more immediately under its controul ; fur
the Members for towns, he contended, must of necessity
be persons of more active habits than those who sat for

counties; and this, as well from the circumstance•

whereby they could alone recommend themselves
to the representation as from the character of their
constituency. This, he thought, was no reflection on the
. . . .

country gentlemen. On the contrary, their indisposition
lightly to alter ancient institutions and established usages
formed an admirable ingredient in the constitution of
the House, and enabled it, when combined with the
laudable desire of changes (let it be called )upon the part

af the town representatives for the sake of improvement,
by the balance of these conflicting opinions, to ap-
proximate to, if they did not arrive at truth. But
now, by taking away from the one class of represen-
tatives, and adding to the other, they were doing injury
to the agricultural interests, without conferring any !tette-

fit upon the general interests of the country. Looking,
he would say, for uxarop'e, to the county of Middlesex,

lie would be inclined to conclude that local intere+tM

and local attachments would go for nothing, but that men
should be chosen, as in the case of one of the Hon. Mem-
bers for the county to which he had alluded, for the marked
line of politics they had pursued. He saw the Hon.
Member for Middlesex selected to represent that great

county, thou.;h he possessed no local connections there, and

_ .
selected, indeed, evidently for the line of conduct he had
tdopted in polities, which was that of watching with
the greatest closeness the expenditure of the country.
lie did not object to the Hon. Member on the fact that
such had been the cause of his selection. The Hon. Mem-

tier had only zealously performed what he conscieutiously
believed to be a platelet duty, and he was rewarded for it
by the representation of the metropolitan county. The
only reason for which he alluded to the circumstance, was
to show the sort of men that these metropolitan represen-
tatives were likely to be, and to mark in censequence the
great additional influence which such men, so closely in
ommunication with their constituents, must have in that
House.—(l•lear, hear.) There would be in this manner
ten Members for London, and the change would be most
considerable. Viewing that change in its future effects by
those which, so far as circumstances permitted, it had
already produced, he must say, that he did not think it a
change that was likely, upon the whole, to work well for
the benefit of the country. He viewed it as a de-
parture from the ancient usages of the country, and
he could not but anticipate that it would not be for the
better. He thought it would aggravate the loss the agri-
cultural interest were about to sustain by the other parts of
the Bill, and that it would give an undue influence to the
popular voice in that House. On these grounds he should
certainly resist giving the franchise, in the manner now
proposed, to Greenwich and Woolwich.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord ALTHORP observed, that he must do the Right
Hon. Gentleman the credit of saying that he had argued
the question strictly to the point, and be had stated his
opinions with considerable ability. He felt a difficulty in
following the Right Hon. Gentleman, but, at the same
time, he thought it was his duty to state the grounds on
which he differed from the Right Hon. Gentleman in his
view of this part of the Bill. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman seemed to think that the proportion of Members
now about to be given to the metropolitan districts was
much too large. Oa that point they were decidedly at
variance with each other ; for he (Lord Althorp) felt con.
vinced, that in the line which the Ministers had adopted
on this subject, they had not in the least degree ex-
ceeded the proportion to which the metropolitan districts
were fairly entitled. The first thing which struck them
in fratning this Bill, and which always had been consi-
dered a great grievance, was the circumstance that large
tracts of the metropolis (if he might use such an expres-
sion) were totally unrepresented in that House.--(Hear,
hear.) In remedying that deficiency, the question was,
how were they to apply the remedy ? The Right Hon.
Gentleman seemed to think that the populous districts
might have been added to those in their neighbourhood
which already sent Members to that House; and he
supposed that such a course would be more consistent
with the general nature of the measure, and with the
principle on which the Constitution had hitherto acted.
The Right Honourable Gentleman was, however, quite mis-
taken in that opinion ; for the principle on which the
Constitution had hither to acted was stated by the Right
Hon. Gentletnan himself as a principle by which repre-
sentativeswere given, not to the populousness of the towns,
nor their sire, hnt to 4 town as a separate and distinct
place. That was stated by the Right Hop, Gentleman
to he the rule; and if it were so, the plan proposed by the
Right Hon. Gentleman would ba the exception. The
course pursued in flee piq was pot; therefore, a departure
from the principle of the Constitution, but an adherence
to it. But, putting that consideration out of the question,
he would eels whether the House would be prepared to add
hose new representatives to those places which already
possessed Members. He thought they would certainly
answer in the negative, for if they were so to add them, it
would almost antoont to a disfranchisement of the electors
in the old places.—(lleac, heat.) The franchise of the
present inhabitants of Westminster wool() he diminished
almost to nothing, if Pancras, and Maryleborte, and the
tdjoining places were to he added to the present number
of its electors. It would be almost like throwing the po-
pulation of a large town into a borough ; and he thought
they could ;eet adopt such a plan with any degree of fair-
ness or consistency,—(Hear, hear.) The course, there-
foie, which they had taken was, to poets:der these places
rs seperate boroughs, in the same manner that Westminster,
Southwark, and Lnmlon, though adjoining each other, had
dways been considered ~t; se,;arate. and distinct boroughs,
and had always sent separate Menthe:es to Parlia-
went, In doing this, he thought they had taken the
course moat consistent with reason, and most in unison with
the principle of the present state of the representation.
The Right lion. Gentleman had iaer..t told the Committee
that these representatives of the metropcdiran districts
• would give an overwhelming or overbearing power to the
metropolis over the other represented places in the empire.
With all doe deference to the present Members for the
metropolis--notwith4anding the respect due to them as
representatives of large bodies pf men of wealth and in-
telligence—he mutt nay, that the deference they obtained
• in that House was not so overhearing on that aecsuat
.done, but that the deference paid them arose also in a
considerable: degree front the respect felt for their personal
characters, and front their intelligence and their habits of
business.--(Hear, hear, I'o4. the: Ministerial, and some
signs of dissent from the Opposition ilenehes.) Hon.
Members might agree or not with what he was stating,
but he would state truly his opinion on all points on
which he addressed the 1-10)125c,---4Cheers)—and in doing
t he was sure he should not, isa thfs present instance,
ffend his Ilon, friends the representatives of the City.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) Its might perhaps be prejudiced by
his old habits of thinking in favour of county Members;
but he must say, that he thought they, and not the metro-
politan Members, were the men most marked in the recent
h. isions on this Bill.—(llear,) It was not the Members
who
.came front Westminster, Southwatk, and London,
but those who came from parts of the country, which the
Right lion. G,.:ntletnan seemed to suppose had little weight
in that House,a~_]tose conduct was watched with the
ereatest degree of nic‘.'tY.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The
Right Hon. Gentleman ::1(1 spoken of the want
'af zeal and want of activity of the county Mem-
bers, es compared with that of the representatives
fur the towns ; but in that opinion he not at
all agree with the ti4be Hon. Gentleman. On the coo-
trakv, he believed that die Lminty Members performed
the gre,4,,,i ieart of the practical Inasineae of that House.
It was also skilte4 Piev.t. there ought to be no hiembees for
the inhabitants of that
,',l;:trrYiekti):°vneet'e Members cif rPtra ly
il( of
tg s!2e Ike did not think
bat tne;! was a fit objection to be e4tat.eipcd. They
e a h
ttaus
f look "'
„ state Of the.const,titjo it constituent hotly',
to crie
assinoettso
the particular pujoeas:: of
men i,
into that House. 414 ti lie saw no ream what-
•' ' side of Oxford-
cver why a man who iiveie On ,the. •Ij# „.. •
itieet should be presented by that i;..4.41 en-
itivio;: the elective franchise at the mine time with the
inhabitants a-,f the south side of Oxford-street. In drawing
the line of distinctiOae, he did not think that they ought
to draw a, lineshatWoal:4 eesyde slit most wealthy, in-
par,t na.4.r4olitai.t! district.ihe gefererta lueation
ll,vingof the :1111allualsideet, Ptl°ll FsCll:6auubsl de r nowYtiolts
571;o wilt) el or two urn the
pat ticuiae pilio of Greenwich. It they were iiuOut to
give representatives to ttims,4 r"9 of the metropolis which
were not now represented, le w4lmemf t; r,"'7 whether
.hey would not take the same view with respect to con-
ferring the I,..enehise upon the populous places on the
south as on the no,eth alike of the river—and whether
any °them course could possibiy been justifiable?
The Right GenileMan had said that the pe.ap:e of
Deptford and Gree4.7eich depended in a great measure
upon the Government. it wee true that they did some-
what depend on the Government, bust tt to any ma-
:, •
merial extent so 44, to affect the freedom of titair
election of representatives. • ;till, howeyer, if that were
he ca.se, L'ne fact of the Provernmnt% possr9sing an in-
fluence came rather oddly aa an objection from the rouths
of those who had been in the conese of these discussions so
repeatedly objecting to this pill as a measure that was
calculated to destroy the influence of therown.—(llear,
hear.) It Was supposed that Deptford and Greenwich