The Sun.
London, England, 1849-05-01 00:00:00

Tr N MAY 1, 1849
•

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ADJOURNED MEETING AT THE

•
EAST INDIA. HOUSE.
THE RAJA OF SATTARA.
A Special General Meeting of the Proprietors of
the East India Company was holden again on Fri-
day to resume the debate, which stood adjourned from
Wednesday, on Mr. Sullivan's motion relative to the
case of the Raja of Sattara.
Precisely at twelve o'clock Sir Archibald. Gal-
loway, accompanied by a large body of the Directors,
entered the court, and

Mr. Hoerr MACKENZIE rose to resume the debate.
He said—When the Court rose on Wednesday last
he intended to have said a few words, but abstained
for several reasons. He felt that the question had
been almost decided, and he felt too that everybody
in the meeting, as well as himself, were almost ex-
hausted by the length to which the debate had run.
For these reasons he abstained from troubling
the Court with the observations which he had
intended to address to them on the matter
in band. From the Court having consented 'to
the adjournment, he supposed it was their wish
that this question should be fully and filially discussed,
end that a solemn decision having been passed by this
Court upon the question, it: should be, as far as the
Court was concerned, set at rest for ever —(Hear,
hear.) For that purpose it was very desirable that
every one should have a full opportunity of
stating his sentiments ; therefore he offered himself
as en humble individual to state his opinion on the
He confessed he had been anxious to join in
.is discussion, because he entertained a strong
opinion that injustice was done by the Court of Di-
rectors and others, gentlemen for whom he enter-
tained a strong sense of affection and respect. He
was not without hope that he himself might be
proved to be in the wrong, that either he was mis-
taken in the general question, or that there were
circumstances in this particular case that would
take it out of the general rule ; and there-
fore he was not without hope that they might
be able to persuade him against a strong opinion
which he entertained, that their orders were founded
in justice, and that in executing them our Govern-
ment would not violate the great laws by which he
believed they all desired to be regulated, and by
which, perhaps, with rare exceptions, their Indian
Government had been conducted—(Hear)—for he
took it for granted that they were willing at once to
say that justice should be paramount. There might be
a question about the meaning of the word " para-
mount," but as to their allowing the justice of
the case to override all questions of mere
expediency, he imagined there would be no dissent.—
(hear, hear, and cheers.) Indeed, he should say as
to Governments, there never could be a question, but
in the long run, expediency depended on justice
—and if that was true in ordinary cases, it
was peculiarly so in India, where their strength
mainly depended on their moral character.
By the force of that moral character,
and of their equitable and righteous institutions
planted in India, were they able to rule and govern
many a willing people in that country, consisting of
many millions.—(Applause.) He had another hope,
which he would not entirely relinquish, that if in the
course of their discussion there should appear reason
to alter their decision, that that decision was not irre-
vocable.—(Hear, hear.) He admitted it was a godlike
thing for a Government never to err; but the highest
human praise was when a strong Government,
such as theirs was, acknowledged its error—(Ap-
plause)—when it retraced steps which it had taken
in a wrong direction, and, throwing aside all meaner
motives and considerations, said, " Come what would,
justice should be done—(Applause)—we were wrong
and we shall not persevere in wrong."—(Hear, hear.)
He was not indeed sanguine enough to expect that
an opinion deliberately adopted by that Court should
be set aside by anything that he could say ; but still
he believed if he and his friends cast their words upon
the waters, they would not do so in vain. He had the
highest respect for Lord Dalhousie, the Governor-
General of India ; and he (Mr. Mackenzie) found in
one paragraph of Lord Dalhousie's minute, a senti-
ment which gave him the greatest hope on this oc-
casion. He believed that Lord Dalhousie had been
unluckily carried on to decide this question at too
early a period of his career. At that moment the
very safety of the Indian empire was in some
degree in his keeping, with the welfare
of thousands and tens of thousands of people
demanding his instant attention, he (Mr. Mackenzie)
could not think that in a judicial case like this—
(Hear, hear)—for a judicial case it was to a great
extent—without the advantage of counsel, without
hearing the parties, without all the advantages which
a public discussion gave to public men in this country
—he (Mr. Mackenzie) repeated he could not think
that Lord Dalhousie had given fair play to his
admirable' judgment—(Hear)—and he believed,
when longer experience should have operated
on the Governor-General's mind, and he should look
on this question, aided by the light of that longer
experience, he would revert to the minute to which he
(Mr. Mackenzie) had alluded. He would take the
liberty to read an extract from that minute. It was
in these words :—" The Government is bound, in
duty as well as policy, to act on every such occasion
with the purest integrity, and in the most scrupulous
observance of good faith. Where even a shadow of
doubt can be shown, the claim should at once have
been abandoned."—(Hear, hear, and applause.)
Now he (Mr. Mackenzie) did confess, if his
mind was not strangely constituted, if he did not
altogether dream, after reading the dissents which
the paper he held in his hand contained, the admirable
dissents which did the highest credit to their Court—
he said if, especially, that speech of his Hon. Friend
Mr. Sullivan could be conveyed to his Lordship, if
their remarks during that debate should be placed
before him, he (Mr. Mackenzie) could have little doubt
that Lord Dalhousie would not think there was not only
" a shadow of a doubt," but doubts of the gravest kind,
that there were the most solid grounds for believing
that he had decided wrongly. The right of the Raja
of Sattara was, in his (Mr. Mackenzie's) apprehen-
sion, one that might be established in any court of
justice; but, at all events, the opposite side of the
question was one that a candid man would say did
admit of grave doubts. lie believed confidently that
at no distant period Lord Dalhousie would consider
that there were such doubts, that the claim should be
at once abandoned.—(Hear.) It was, therefore, on
that account that he (Mr. Mackenzie) was anxious
that this case should be fully discussed. There was
a preliminary objection to which he had better allude
shortly. His Hon. Friend, the late Chairman, agi-
tated the Act of Parliament which restrained that
Court from altering or amending, or interfering with
any decision of the Court of Directors, supported by
her Majesty's Government. He (Mr. Mackenzie) at
once admitted the law of his Hon. Friend, but he
must demur to the consequences. It was certainly
very important that it should be known that their
Court acted on a higher responsibility than they owed
to their proprietors as their representatives ; but the
Court had a higher responsibility in their own con-
science to God and their country—(Hear, hear)—
and although he (Mr. Mackenzie) did belong to
" the extreme left"—(A laugh)—he had always
maintained the principle that their Honourable Court
should be always supported by them on his (Mr.
Mackenzie's) side of the bar, and therefore he did
readily admit the provisions of the Act in its fullest
spirit, that they were not to interfere with
the Executive Government—(Hear, hear)—but he
could not think they were not therefore sometimes,
nay, frequently, to discuss grave questions. As
the constituents of the Court of Directors the
Proprietors were fully entitled to instruct them ;
they were fully able to give them the benefit of their
various sentiments ; and he thought the Directors
would be disposed to yield to their opinions when
supported by convincing arguments, or at all
events would be disposed to give them the
weight which they merited. For his own
part, when there was no pressure, when a
case might admit of long delay, if he was in their
place he confessed he should have a preference for
the somewhat rude democracy of that place rather
than seek inspiration from the more demure philo-
sophy of the precincts of Cannon-row.—(A laugh.)
He had no doubt in this, as in other cases, the
Directors had acted for the best; they had thought it
right to come to a decision, and he had no doubt
that they thought the decision they had come to was
the best one. He gave them the be-
nefit of believing they had done no-
thing that they did not think was right.
The case was one that depended upon the Directors
for its decision—it was not the province of the Pro-
prietorsroffer to do so; all they could do was
to proffer
their advice. The Director must decide it, witehvoeurt
reference to the Court. The Proprietors,ii‘v ,
had the right of either approving or condemning any
decision to which the Directors might have come,
when they assembled, as they had. that day. Though
the Proprietors had no direct authority or power, he
believed that Court, if it would be true to itself—.
(Hear, hear)—possessed very considerable authority.
He believed it might be fairly taken to represent that
great body of the British people who took the deepest
interest in the affairs of India. He believed, further,
if their discussions there were carried on as he had
been accustomed to see discussions carried on in
India—with perfect freedom, not perhaps without
puska, when important interests were at stake,

yet with courtesy and gentlemanly feeling—
if such feelings actuated their discussions, he
believed they would not be unimportant.
They should he of such a character, for they took place
in a free country, where public sentiment bore down
the highest authority.—(Hear, hear.) The bar had
no authority to dictate the nature of the decivion of
the judges, yet what judge of the present day—what
judge since the time of Jeffreys would dare to set
himself against the universal feeling of the bar. The
judges of England were far above his praise, but
highly as he thought of them, he would not trust
them unless they were checked by a honest
bar and a searching public. (Loud cheers.)
So he thought of the Government of India, which
that Court was to a great extent, and, therefore, he
thought if they formed in that Court a strong opinion
in favour of the decisions to which the Directors had
come, that the reasons given for results were ap-
proved•of, they must he materially strengthened, and
they might confidently hope for good. Therefore it
was that he was so anxious that there should be no
angry, no personal discussion—(Cheers)—therefore
it was that he was anxious, if in the heat of debate
he should use one word inconsistent with
respect to the Directors, that it should be considered
as if he had not uttered it, as no such sentiment could
come from his heart, and he would at once candidly
and fairly concede to the Directors the right of think-
ing he was wrong, miserably, strangely wrong; and
he was sure they would at once recognise his right
to say to them, believing strongly what he uttered,
that he thought they had gravely erred.—(Bear,
hear.) Therefore it was that he said, that though
giving the late Chairman full credit for his
knowledge of the law by which cases of
this kind were guided, and bowing to his
authority in all matters, yet notwithstanding his
opinion, he considered that discussions in that Court
might be most important, and that it was certainly
one part of the constitution of this Company that
this right, which he believed a most important part of
the good government of India, should be maintained.
It was also a matter of importance, because they
possessed no direct power, which rendered it
impossible that they could there enter into
that struggle for personal objects which so
much perplexed oligarchies at home. They could
not lay great stress upon personal motives
and feelings, because they knew that their decision
would have no immediate practical effect. No, it was
only by the force of truth that they could expect to
be useful; and when they were wrong—especially
when they were violent—their power was not legally '
but morally irresistible. It was for these grounds
that he looked forward to good and not to evil spring-
ing from such discussions ; indeed, he believed such
discussions would form a good safety-valve for
their feelings. It was a great consolatiou
under suffering to be able to complain—
it was a strong security against tyranny to be able to
petition. Ile knew from his experience in India that
no right was more valued by the natives of India
than the right of petitioning. It had been his fortune
to decide many cases, but he must say for the natives
of India, that when the cause was rightly heard, even

if they thought the decision was wrong, there was no
hostility in their breasts ; in the common expression
of their language they said, " to be heard is to be ap-
preciated."—(Cheers.) What he wished to impress
upon the minds of public men, and if upon them it
was doubly important that the natives of India should
be impressed with the same belief, that no man could
be injured without a hearing.—(Hear. hear.) They
would then think highly of the British decision—they
would submit to decisions, even if wrongful, without
entertaining any feeling of anger or disaffection.
Therefore it was that he wished this Court to be con•
sidered as a safety-valve to all who thought themselves
injured; and the more the natives knew that their
cases would be heard the greater would be the security
they would have for the government of India. But
he did not believe that they were to be misled by
mere talk; and, on the other hand, they were
too acute not to know the real merits of
the question. There were a few preliminary
questions on which he would first offer some words.
This was not the real Sattara question.—(Hear,
hear.) The parties were different, the point at issue
was different, and the cause was altogether different.
The parties were the family of the late Raja, and the
question at issue was one of public faith, the interpre-
tation of a treaty, and the consequences were of the
most momentous kind. The bearings of the question
were well defined by Mr. Willoughby, for he evi•
dently intended that the decision with respect to this
case should extend to the whole of the dependent
principalities ; and therefore he believed, if the deci-
sion in this case was maintained, especially in the
words used, he believed the decision would have
the most important effect. (Sir J. Hogg was about
to leave.) He begged to remiad the Hon. Baronet
that this was not the interminable Sattara case. He
hoped, therefore, he should escape the good-natured
banter which a gentleman some time ago received at
the hands of the Hon. Baronet. He wished it to be
understood that he threw the old case aside ; and,
therefore, begged to recommend this new case to the
acute, legal, and kind consideration of the Hon. Baronet,
as it was a question quite irrespective of all that
had been urged with respect to the guilt or innocence
of Pertaub Shean. They had nothing to do with that.
He trusted, therefore, they would have the benefit of
the Hon. Baronet's sentiments upon this question,
because it was a legal and judicial one. He was only
afraid if he went away it would be thought that he
had thrown up the question in disgust as the "eternal
Sattara question."—(Laughter.) Still it was not a
case he was ashamed to advocate, but in doing so he
should not detain the Court long; yet, when a man
was on his legs, it was well known—
" That ono upon one suggests another,
And still each follow breeds a brother."

The case had been admirably stated and ably sup
ported by the unanswered and certainly unanswerable
speech of Mr. Sullivan. He did not mean to say
that he concurred in all the sentiments, but his state-
ment that the decision of the Directors was unjust had
his entire concurrence, and if he could bring himself
to believe that his speech was full in the minds of the
Proprietors, he should be ashamed to add one word
to the arguments he adduced, for he seemed to him to
have exhausted the case. He merely sought permis-
sion to state shortly how this question appeared to
him. Let them look at the ground of the decision of
the Court (page 8)—" The result of our deliberation
is, that concurring with you in opinion, we are fully
satisfied that by the general law and custom of India,
a dependent principality like that of Sattara
cannot pass to an adopted heir without the
consent of the paramount power." First of
all, he should confine himself to the question
whether by the " general Court custom of
India a dependent principality like that of
Sattara cannot pass to an adopted heir with-
out the consent of the paramount power? "
He had read all these papers minutely, and he had
listened to what had been said from the chair with
the utmost attention, but he certainly could not find
a tittle of evidence to support that assertion.—(llear,
hear.) He had looked carefully through all the books
and papers, to see if there was anything to bear the
Court out in saying that Sattara was a dependent prin-
cipality, and the Raja must therefore have recourse to the
sanction, and not merely the sanction, but the
consent of the paramount power before he could
adopt a heir—(llear)—nor could he find anything
in the treaty to justify that position—a treaty, he
would take leave to observe, not merely with Pertaub
Singh, but he conceived also with the state of Sat-
tara. It was not a treaty with an individual who
lived to-day and died to-morrow ; but it was the treaty
with the Raja and people of Sattara, and they were
bound, therefore, not to take it in a limited sense, but
to construe it in the light of a treaty of perpetual
friendship and alliance
truewith
tthhaetatta r s .
(Hear, hear.) It wasconceded
and sovereignhty of
to the Raja the principality peoplethe treatyof S
d to these
the only meaning that could be a
Sattara, his heirs and successors,buttthacehaeppreended
words was that which was put upon them by the Hon.
a tolerably- good
who in his humble judgment Ns!i
(II h r )
h a point.— ear, ea .
and Learned Gentleman. who spoke
son Wednesday, and
legal authority upon suc
Nor did he think in re-
gardy.—(Hear,
Heirs and successors could not be. limited to heirs of
hear.)
th
body •b t.
succes-
sors" could be limited toheirs of the ,uin t
to English.me.n that e words "heirs and
case
of the Ilindoos, with whom and whose
laws and customs they were perhaps more familiar,
such a limitation appeared to him to be absolutely
impossible and absurd:—(Cheers.) He had referred
to all the books bearing upon the subject that he
could get access to, and they certainly contained
nothing to support the course the Court were pur-
suing;
nat
mo
oobrnnegatsmht eewn highest iogitnho e
wassht legalone whose
st hs
ioorni t
eeasanrdunpi
noa upon
while he had consulted gentlemen who must
besg
u madecph r e s
hu points,mm e
honour to his country—he meant his learned friend
Dr. Wilson, who was well acquainted with the
laws of India—who all in one voice said that
an adopted heir or an adopted son was as
much a heir as the heirs of the body.--(Cheers.) But
turn to what Mr. Eiphinstone said in his dispatch,
and the Court would find that there it was stated that
adopted heirs were uniformly placed before col-
lateral heirs, and that universal adoption was claimed
by the Hindoos as a right to which they attached the