The Sun.
London, England, 1836-02-17 00:00:00

sive and general.—( Hear, hear.) There are two points to be
ascertained in this inquiry. Of the charge of personal bribery
and corruption I was acquitted the other evening.—( Cries of
" No, no.") Oh, yes I was, for what did the Hon. and
Learned Member for Bradford say to-night ? " When I
charged the Learned Member for Dublin," said he, " I was
described by his friends as a pigmy; when I acquitted him I
was considered a giant," I know not whether lam acquitted
by the Gentleman who interrupted me, but this I know, that
of the charge of personal bribery and corruption, I am fully
and completely acquitted by 200 or 250 of the Hon. Gentle-
men who sit on this side of the House.—( Hear, hear.) I
wish to know whether the Hon. and Learned Gentleman

shrinks now from the acquittal which he gave me the other
night of personal corruption, or of having put money into my
own pocket ?—( Hear, hear)—and whether he now goes back
to his original charge, driven to it, of course, not by the Con-
servatives, but by his own honourable and conscientious feel-
ings?—( Hear, hear.) Why the Noble Lord ( Stanley) the
Member for South Lancashire, who is not now in the House
—( It was intimated that Lord Stanley was present)-oh, I
beg the Noble Lord's pardon, but not seeing him in his proper
place, I naturally supposed he was absent. I was about to
state that the Noble Lord, in his speech the other evening,
drew the distinction between personal and pecuniary corrup-
tion, and thought that the Hon. and Learned Member for
Bradford had drawn the same distinction to-night.—( No, no.)
I understood him to do so distinctly. But I take up the case
precisely as it stands—l take up the case which the Noble
Lord spoke of—the case of personal corruption and pecuniary
corruption. Igo into both ; and I defy either the one or the
other to be brought against me in any shape that can reflect
upon my personal or political integrity. I take up both ; and
I fear not the result.—( Hear, hear.) You may by a majority
name a Committee before which I will not go.—(Oh, oh. )
Yes, you may do this ; but if you do, I tell you your Com-
mittee would be so stigmatised by its formation, that the

public at large would pay no regard to its proceedings.—
( Hear, hear.) I want an independent committee—a com-
mittee whose verdict of acquittal would really be a purification
from the charge.—( Cheers.) That is the committee I want ;
and shame upon you if you have congregated here to put par-
tisans on the committee against me.—( Cheers.) Well, I
take up both the cases put by the Noble Lord. Am I guilty ?
Is there any charge against me of personal corruption ? Is
there any proof of my having improperly used that moral in-
fluence which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman supposes me

to possess?—(Hear, hear.) And here let me remark, for
one moment, on the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's great
candour—his Christian candour on this subject. He has read
the charges made against me ;—would it not have been as
charitable if he had also read my reply to those charges ?
—( Hear, hear.) And when he talks of Mr. Vigors, as if
that gentleman was a person inferior to him in anything, would
there not have been as much of Christian candour in his state-
ment if he had informed the House that Mr. Vigors distinctly
asserted that not one farthing of the money remained, or was
ever intended to remain in my hands ?—( Hear, hear.) Oh, I
thank you for your candour. I thank you for your Christian
charity, and I thank you for your kind forbearance. (Hear. )
I come back to the double point of view which this case pre
seats. Does it present anything of what is called personal
corruption—does it present anything of pecuniary corruption ?
I laugh to scorn the second, and begin with the first—( Hear)
and I distinctly admit that I have very considerable
influence in Ireland. I admit that I have a degree of influence
which ought not to be left with any one man in Ireland.—
( Hear, hear.) I admit that I have a dangerous influence in
Ireland.—( Cheers.) I have an influence, which in a sound
state of society, no man possibly could have in Ireland.—
( Great cheering.) Would you wish to make that influence
all-powerful ?—( Hear, hear.) If you do, take up the unjust,
the partial, the ( I will not call it odious, but) criminal state-
ment which has been made by the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man.—( Hear, hear.) If you take up his view and confirm the
justice of his statement, will you diminish my power in Ire-
land ?—will you diminish my influence with the oppressed in
that country ? No ; you will add to it by another injustice.—
(Hear, hear.) The people of Ireland will say, "It is not the
tact which has been condemned, but the advocate of our rights
—the defender of our privileges—the sustainer of our liberties,
and thus another gross and glaring injustice has been perpe-
trated upon us." I certainly never heard anything so per-
fectly and completely framed for the purpose merely of injus-
tice as the statement of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.—
( Hear, hear, hear.) Yet if he refuse to do me justice—if he
refuse to give me a liberal and enlightened committee, does he
not know that he will be adding ten-fold to my power in Ire-
land ?—( Hear.) Nay more, I have some influence in England
too ; I may meet the Hon. and Learned Member at Bradford,
and there I shall be at liberty to proclaim against him the his-
tory of the election at Pontefract—if, indeed, the Hon. and
Learned Member should ever stand for Bradford again,
which, from all I can hear, I am disposed to think as exceed-
ingly doubtful. —( Hear, hear.) Does he wish to increase my
power in England ? If so, let him persuade the House to do
me an injustice, and he will be taking the surest means to se-
cure his wish—(Hear, hear)—because my power is bottomed
entirely upon injustice—partial injustice in England—general
and universal injustice in Ireland.—( Cheers.) I admit that I
have as powerful influence—nay more, I admit that I am the
hired servant of the people of Ireland—( Hear, hear)—l ad-
mit that they have amply, indemnified me for having given up
my profession, and the reasonable prospects I had of enjoying
the otiuni cunt dignitate of the bench, and the ease and abun-
dant income which would thus have been secured to me in my
old age. But for the abandonment of this prospect the people
of Ireland have amply indemnified me ; and it is my duty to
exert every power I possess to procure for them in this House
representatives of their wants and their wishes—to exclude
from this House, whenever I can, those who arc indifferent or
directly opposed to their interests—and, above all, to exert
all my influence against those inhuman creatures, who, deaf to
the widow's tear and the orphan's shriek, can smile amidst the
woe and wretchedness they have created about them, and who,
whilst human beings fall and perish at their very threshold,
think only of the triumph of their party, and of their individual
importance as Members of this House.—( Cheers.) lam
upon the question of influence. Let me state to the House
the real facts which occurred at the election for Carlow. The
statement will not occupy much time, and I think it will
be found to be instructive.—( Hear, hear.) In the election
which took place just before the Reform Bill was passed, Sir
John M. Doyle and Mr. Blakeney were returned for the county
of Carlow. So strong at that time was the excitement of the
county, that the old Orange Tory interest did not dare to
enter into a contest. Sir John M. Doyle and Mr. Blakeney,
therefore, were returned without opposition. On the throwing
out of the Reform Bill in the House of Lords, there was an-
other election, at which, after a short contest, Mr. 'Wallace
and Mr. Blakeney were returned ; but the moment that the
contest began, a cruel scene of persecution was commenced on
the part of the Tory candidates. The present motion at-
tempts to get rid of that. The new-made Member for Brad-
ford has no heart for the weeping widow or starving orphan.—
(" Oh, oh I") Is this irrelevant to the present matter? Oh,
the irrelevancy of the widow's cry—( Hear, hear)—oh the ir-
relevancy of the orphan's tear. —(Hear, hear.) Ye are all
lovers of right and justice, but the moment an appeal is made
to the most endearing ties of humanity, that is irrelevant—
( Hear, hear.) I will not weary you ; I may mention, how-
ever, that at the election at which Messrs. Wallace and Blake-
ney were returned, a system of persecution and cruelty was
carried on to a horrible extent by the Tories. I can prove, by
the statement of Mr. Vigors, that there were at that time 1,100
individuals turned out from their houses and homes—that there
were 193 widows, and I cannot tell how many orphans, driven
from the shelter of their homes by the cruel, the bitter, the
horrible and unrelenting hostility of the Tory landlords. I put
it to every English gentleman who hears me, whether he will
shut this out of the inquiry ? ( Hear, hear.) Of what materials
can you be composed if you resolve to shut these proceedings
out of the inquiry ?—( Hear.) I am ready to prove these things
at the bar of the House or before a committee. Both Messrs.
Wallace and Blakeney having under the circumstances I have
described become Members for Carlow, another general elec-
tion shortly took place—the election which followed the ac-
cession to office of Sir Robert Peel and the Duke of Welling-
ton. See what the state of the county of Carlow was at that
time. Two men, the present Members for the county, deter-
mined to support the new Administration—an Administration
which took part with that interest in Ireland which was op-
posed to the views and wishes of the great majority of the
people—an Administration during whose brief existence the
No Popery" flag waved over the head of the Lord Lieute-
nant as he sat in the theatre at Dublin, and during whose
brief existence the Right Honourable Gentleman the Re-:
corder for the city of Dublin, and his Honourable and Learned
Colleague in the representation of the University of Dublin,
together with the Right Hon. Mr. Gregory, all decided
enemies of the Roman Catholics, were made Privy Council-
lors.—(Hear hear.) Here, then, the triumph of Orangeism
was for a time complete. But the triumph was a brief one ;
and it is fortunate that it was so ; for laugh and sneer as you
will, if the people of this country had been so misguided as
to trust to that infatuated party a continuance of power,
Ireland would have been convuplsaerdwvoiunfilrdsstuhccah:m.eaewbicaneytnothpfaootuwneedvreii•yna
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ceived by the Conservatives for this purpose ?—( Hear, hear.
When you talk of purity of election, let us see what the purity
of the Conservatives has been.—(Hear, hear.) Let us have a
full inquiry, and let us see what money has been subscribed,
for what it has been subscribed, and in what manner, and for
what purposes it has been expended.—(Hear, hear.) Let
nwoatrdthwe
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satnd Learned Member
udiedand well-prepared
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tcoo
aske f or
for
-
a limited inquiry, but if his intentions be sincere, let him join
with me in probing the evil to the bottom. If the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman will do that, I will undertake to prove
that subscriptioas to a very extraordinary amount were got to-
gether by the Carlton Club, for the purpose of carrying the
elections in different parts of the kingdom.—( Oh, and loud
cheers.) Let those who doubt it but give me the opportunity
of producing my proofs, and I will change their doubts into
conviction ; if, indeed, they be open to a conviction of that
which they are unwilling to believe.—( Hear.) Well, in Ire-
land this plan was carried on with very considerable success.
How did the present Members obtain their seats for the county
of Carlow ? Let the inquiry commence, and you will have
from every part of that county abundant proof of the means by
which those seats were procured.—( Hear.) You smile at this.
If you knew all you would tremble. The whole of Ireland was
assailed by the Conservative party. Carlow was attacked by
two men of fortune—one having large property in the county,
the other known to be a possessor of very great wealth.
These men entered into the contest, determined at any ex_
pence to carry their election. Under these circumstances, Mr.
Blakeney retired from the contest, and Mr. Wallace would
not promise to come forward. Thus the county was left with-
out a candidate in the Liberal interest. If it be a crime to

_
seek for a candidate, I was guilty of a crime.—( Hear, hear.),
I sought for a candidate—l sought for two candidates—,
sought in vain. For the first time, under these eircumsrances,
Mr. Raphael introduced himself to me. This was at the ge-
neral election which took place after the accession of Sir Ro-.
bert Peel to office. His agent, Mr. Pearson, wrote to ne_.
upon the subject, stated that Mr. Raphael was High Sheila
of London for that year, and gave him a high character for.
respectability and political integrity. I had never heard of
the man before. He proposed that he should stand as candi-
date for the county of Carlow, declaring that he would in-
stantly purchase a large estate in that county (if there should
be one to be purchased), if he were returned a Member for it.
I answered Mr. Pearson's letter, and I will insist upon having,
my reply to that letter laid before any Committee that shill'
be appointed by this House. That was my first step—for this
thing has been taken up by the Honourable and Learned :View'
ber for Bradford as if the 28th of May was the first time I ever
heard of Mr. Raphael. Indeed the Honourable and Learned
Member does not appear to have read my answer which was
inserted in the papers. If he had, he would have seen that
Mr. Raphael admits that the 28th of May was not my first/
acquaintance with him on the subject of an cleetion.
stated to Mr. Pearson what my views were generally—aunt
as to Carlow, I stated particularly that I would make far-
ther inquiries, and give him the details respecting an elec-
tion for that county.—(Hear, hear,) I told him that it could
be ascertained what number of electors would vote for Re-
form candidates, and what number for Tory candidates ;
that by the result of the Committee of this House, the ha-
lance was in favour of the Tories, and that unless certain men
would add their interest to the Reformers, in order to out-
number the Tories, Mr. Raphael ought not to stand. I got
a letter from Mr. Pearson, telling me that Mr. Raphael bad
offered to stand as a candidate for Pontefract, that he was
High Sheriff of the City of London at the last general elec-
tion, and that he had stood as candidate for Leeds. However
my opinion of Mr. Raphael may be altered now, I knew Ile;
thing of him at that period to his disparagement, nor do I
know any other disparaging circumstances of him now except
this transaction.—( Hear, hear.) My excuse then, towards
the county of Carlow, and towards this House, for recom-
mending him to bo the Member for Carlow is, that at that
period I had heard nothing derogatory of Mr. Raphael. Mr'
Wallace declined to become a candidate at the general elec-
tion, whereupon, so strong was the popular feeling against
the present Members, that there started up as a candidate a
young gentleman who had just gone through his courses
at the University—a Mr. Cahill. He added the name of.
my eldest son with his own as a popular name, but who had
been already returned for Tralee, and did not, therefore, want
to be returned for Carlow ; but the Reformers stood a contest
of four days under those two names against the sitting Mem-
bers. This I state for the purpose of showing the House he°,
strong the popular party are in that county.—( Hear, hear./
The sitting Members were returned. Their return was
petitioned against, and this was the case proved again"„
them :—lt was proved that the county voters had no
been exhausted at the close of the election. Why were they
not ? Because the law agent of Als-. Bruen put the long
oath to every voter that came up to vote for Mr. Kavanagh
land the law agent of Mr. Kavanagh put the long oath to •
every voter that came up to vote for Mr. Bruen. Was that
all ? No. The agents for the popular party feeling a repug-
nance—it is only the sanctified man who does not—at this pro-
fane use of the oaths, said to the agents of Bruen and Kavanagh,
" We know your object—your object is delay ; you gain three
minutes between every second vote. Now we will give you
those three minutes but don't put the oaths." That was ac-
cepted.—( Loud cheers.) What does the conscientious Mem-
ber for Bradford think of that ?—(Cheers.) What was the
next step? The next morning the agents of Bruen and Kava-
nagh said "three minutes are not enough—we can wear out
five ; and if you do not allow five minutes between every tWe
voters we will put the oaths." It was found isy experiment
that they could wear out five minutes, and accordingly th..ef„,
got five.- -( Hear, hear.) Na ell, they found that even 0;
were not enough, and wanted to extend it to six or seven ;
the opposite agents would not give snore, so the other party
continued, after a short interval, to put the oaths, until they 30'
tually entirely put the county out of court.—( Hear.) To TO'
who love the democratic principle, it is a most deplorable thing°
that those vexations proceedings—whatever money might b
paid for them—should have taken place at Carlow. The 11,e13,i
and Gallant Member who has lately presented a petition aga'll,.-
me challenged inquiry. I challenge him.—( Cheers.) Let In:s
come before a Committee.—( Cheers.) I can prove that 007..
was a contract between him and Mr. Kavanagh to adopt Oil
system. lis ill not pledge myself to the House, but I show
like to examine him upon that point before a Gorninitte",
;
There never was anything in the history of contested electl,
so
contested outrageous.
election —(Ch
againsteers.)
the Wbell,rother of o Mr. Vigornes havin
of the
g stn°.oo.
sitti
Members for the county, for the town of Carlow, in which hi;
. ]ugh
was defeated, finding, under the circumstances I have 11,0
stated, that a petition against the county Members could
so strongly supported, brought the case before a Cornasittio
of this House. They proved the facts I have mentioned ; '0
election was set aside upon that account, and a new writ Yi t
issued. Now, the House may wish to know what was the firs
step which the elected Members, Mr. Bruen and Mr. Kava,.;
nagh, then took. Mr. Austin was counsel for the petitiont;
—the successful counsel ; and mark, the very moment t""
Committee decided that they should be unseated, that eery i",
stant Mr. Austin was retained by them for theyetition till!'
was to follow the next eleetion—(Great cheering thus Ina,rl;
ing the determination to bring the case again -before anc"-,-;
Committee ! Now I ask the House, did they ever bear of susf"
a proceeding as that ?—( Cheers.) And do you wonder,
that the gentry of Ireland who play such pranks have not °-(1
authority there, and that he who stands up against them, an
for the people, has power and influence in that country
(Loud cheers.) I implore of you, take away that influell;
You can have it in one moment, by doing justice to Irelanoo
but by continuing injustice to Ireland, and injustice to mesas
only augment it. Well, that was the situation of things. at
I wrong, then, in looking out for a candidate to oppose
party ? Mr. Wallace had given little, I believe nothing;
the that contest and the petition. Mr. Vigors had had bo
misfortune to be before a Committee, and any gentleman his
hasbeen
ktwelve ohrat a quantityfourteen d
of drymoney (a ss i
days before
se of
Ccalladi!
House,
is required on such an occasion. Mr. Vigors, who, althollgeb
a gentleman of independent circumstances, was not so rib.
as the Members for the county, had expended detests,
Here, then, was a county vacant, and the popular i.O,
excited by the outrages that had been committed on the dg,
offending Catholic peasantry by the Tory landlord,
What would the House think, when a remonstrance was mgof
to the agent of one of those landlords against the cruelty
tea
these proceedings, and when he was told that the persecu to
peasantry who were ejected from their homes had nothing as
eat—what would the House think of the answer thatoo
made—" Let them eat each other ?"—( Hear, hear.) , tell
fact is denied, I admit ; but give me a committee, and of
you lAN ill prove it. That was the situation of the ceont.l,oo
Carlow when the new writ was issued. I had been nr"tao
to by a most influential person in the county of Carlow ono,
subject of the election. But it was not enough to have.cfioe
didates, because that generous and popular self-sacri
which is so familiar to the cheerers of the Honourable .70,
Learned Member for Bradford, who only think of patriotii:
and never think of the pounds, shillings and pence whics'eS
contested election costs, were already in the field. Alas, f
pounds, shillings and pence are absolutely necessary'
sought but one gentleman in England who would become
.tia
candidate for the popular-interest. We wrote to Ireland, "00
did all we could to procure another candidate ; but ivo 'coo
not able to find one who would face the candidates on,
other side, after the determination that had been exhibl:ot
that all opposition was to be worn out by expense, and 'or
there was to be another election petition. Under these circa
el,
stances what occurred ? Why pending the writ Mr. RaP bgalt
as sheriff of London, came to the bar of this House, with of
his paraphernalia of office. I saw him received by
Honourable Members in the most friendly manner. He sP od
to me in the kindest terms—he wrote to me in the kindest tie
most flattering terms. People, indeed, had told me, more
once, that there was no relying upon him—that he was a faeo,
less person. Why, Sir, I confess I never believed it.—(gbeee
hear.) He was the first Catholic who, for 300 years, had 106
Sheriff of London. In Ireland for 45 years—l wish the 11°,0.
to mark this—in Ireland for 45 years Catholics, had been oa
pable of being members of the Corporation of Dublin ; ads
yet, during those 45 years, not one single Catholic was 111.„3
a member of it.—( Hear.) Now recollecting that fact, `"tl
seeing that the Corporation of the City of London had else
Mr. Raphael their Sheriff, I put this question to the Wusbei
if it be true what his calumniators say of him, why did t"
not come forward and state it at the time of his election of
their Common-hall ? But, instead of being accused, he d'ocot
lauded. I found him then the Sheriff of the City of Lon
and
expressing the strongest feelings with respect to Ireland, to
the strongest anti-Tory sentiments. Why should I listens,
his calumniators ? Don't I know what calumniators arelital
(Loud cheers.) Is it new to me that calumniators are a°
of the worst description ? Why, for the last thirty yearteeo,
living man has been half so much assailed as I have belt
Six times a-week in three Dublin papers, twice
three papers in Dublin, once a-weak four papers in D"
have been assailing me with calumnies.—( Hear, hear./ ,Da
confess, therefore, that I disregard calumniators, and .ect
disregard the calumnies against the first Catholic Sh,erlasti
London.—(Hear.) But what had he been doing? He
been in constant communication with Mr. Vigors an teed'
Reform Carlow Committee (I mean those who were atl,oo
ing the Committee of this House in London), telling `OO6
that he would become a candidate, and promising to hector
the purchaser of an estate in Carlow. Under these eiri‘c 01/
stances, where is my personal turpitude because I te° tit°
the cause of Mr. Raphael, and recommended him t°,o.)
county of Carlow against the Tory candidates ?—(Che,i'doa,
I took up the cause of the high Sheriff of the city of If-atin
and recommended him to the county of Carlow as a
,Pi-jesr",
proper candidate. Is there any turpitude in that
hear.) lam now separating the two parts of the ease:, 0.7
personal grounds from the pecuniary grounds. There:' tbig
case as to personal grounds; and is there any man 'flat a
House who will tell me that Mr. Raphael was not as( tb°
person to represent the county of Carlow as either ° an
present Members? One of those Hon. Members baitete,
hereditary estate. It is said that he is descended a
INlacmurrough. He is certainly of high genealogy, ¢,; for
large fortune ; but these do not give him a fee"Pfisioo
wishing the people of Carlow to be in a better aohu sea
—these do not qualify him to represent their wantsipttant
their wishes. The other Hon. Member is a Gent'-oba
whose father purchased lands in the county of Carlow,bu doe'
was a successful commissary in the American war
that give him a title to trample on the people of Uar.-shint'
(Cheers.) Mr. Raphael was a gentleman who Wag told
dantly able to purchase land in that county—who ba
the people that he would make such purchase—who want t"
Sheriff of London—who had proclaimed his attachl. 10 his
those principles which I prefer, and who had even .