The Sun.
London, England, 1849-07-11 00:00:00

TEMPORALITIES

THE CilUttCll OF

IRELAND.

Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE then rose pursuant to
notice to move for a Committee of the whole
House to cousider the present state of the tempo-
ralities of the Church of Ireland. The .Honourable
Gentleman, he said, the Member for Pontefract, in in-
troducing the very useful measure he had just brought
before the House, had told the House how difficult it was
for any individual Member to grapple with the
subject of the treatment and the formation of jqvenile
offenders. It it was difficult for an individual Member
to bring such a subject before the House, how much
more difficult it was for an independent Member of
Parliament, totally unconnected as he was, not only with
the Government, but with any political party to bring
forward the qaestion of which he had given notice for
this evening. (Hear. bear.) However he might
regret that the great names and which
were formerly devote,' to the di,etisinn of this
question were no l inger avail ibis, for the purpose,
at least ho could not be Becuvd of showing any undo
presumption in now eutenittinz it to the notice of the
House.—t Cries of •' Bear, hear.") Whather it wits that
the aspect of Irish gsir.v.si.ces had isceii more renk and
offensive to gent/erntn on the epposite benches. r.r thus
the Irish repres-iitstivei th me-ives, so a body, were
indifferen.; to this sub!: et Le‘knew net. but this qu-s-
-tion of the Irish Church, which was fo,nierly the g Ath,r
leg cry of the %V laig,4, had been within the last few years
_ .

etiiireiy laid aside, earl th 4t instrument, on wh ch
many harmonioa; ta..el had bt ea play,d, was now
like the fabulous burp of I%ra. hung up mute,
and remained utial,renz.— (Hour, lieut..) Howev,r
Hon. Gentleman difforcd wr h n tuis question,
they would not be inclined to say that it was
not ono of the greyest corned Atatton. Where
the whole ecclesasticul revenu-s of the country
were devoted to one-tenth of the population, awl lbs.-
ono-tenth of the people the Protestant minority, an-i
where the religion of the r,..;jority wa. ba
winked at by the State, he could not but think
such a question was in itself worthy the gravest couside-
ration of this House. He thought there was no Member to'
that House, who, if even they had to commence legislating
on this subject de novo, would be inclined to take those
funds founded by the ancestors of the poor Catholic ma-
.

jority, and bestow them upon the spiiitual education of
the rich Protestant minority.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.")
He should give one of the best definitions he
knew of the Irish Church in a very few words.
'Tr —araa the opinion of a great Coissimpratiwo.
statesman. He said, " You have an ecclesiastical
establishment which, though the religion of the Prince
and most of the first-class of landed proprietors, was not
the religion of the-major part of the people." That was
said by Burke in 1796. And how stood the case
in 1849? It was true they had corrected
some flagrant abuses, but the evil still existed.
In 1823 the question of the temporalities of the Irish
Church was first mooted in that House by that pioneer
of all modern improvements, his Honourable Friend
the Member for Montrose. Unlike the generality
of original projectors, whose projects were treated
in their time as the offsprings of political empiricism,
he had lived to find them carried out by the leaders of
both parties, and who, nevertheless, never laid claim to
them, but pursued the " even tenor of his way"—
(Cheers)—and happily continued in pristine strength
and adhered with stern consistency to the sentiments of
his early days.—(Hear, hear.) That motion was sup-
ported by Mr. Ward, the late Memberler Sheffield. and
by the present President of the Board of Control, and the
Prime Minister. For eight years he c tritinued this
course, and was supported in it by of some of those
now in the Cabinet. At length, Lord Althorp
brought in a Bill on the subject, which abolished
vestry cess, but the 147,h clause, or the appropriation
clause, was in an evil hour abandoned. A reinarkehl,“ de-
bate ensued, which was full; reported in "llanserd. ' In
those days arbitration was much needed, for several Mem-
bers were called out. Mr. Hume and Mr. O'Connell op-
posed the Bill, and Mr. Sheil wade a speech which
would never be forgotten. He regretted he did not
favour the House with speeches so often as the House
could wish.—(Hear, hear.) Upon that occasion Dr.
Lushington entreated the House to adjourn, since
in his experience he bad never seen the
decencies of public and private life so much
violated. The Bill wis given up. Still. Mr.
Ward persevere-d in 1835 Li 1834 Mr. O'Connell
had made his great m tion for rep.'al, and be
was met wi h an auvoultnent. But it was
desirable to promote all important inprovements. On the
30th of March in th year Lord John lius-ell brought
on a motion on the subject. and the Parliament of that
day passed the Appropriation Bill. Still Mr. Ward went
on making his annual motions. Ia 1843, Mr. Smith
O'Brien, who whatever his faults were was en
honest Member of Parliament, brought forward
a motion. In that year the present. Chem' Ilor of the
Exchequer said the first evil of Ireland eats the state ot.
the Irish Church; thee in no country of Europe was
such an establishment maintained for the nenefit of a
small minority of ,he population; and he considered it
the duty of the Governm.nt to originate a remedy lor
the evils complained of, and to provide for the settle-
ment of the question.—(lleur. hear.) The Right Hon.
Secretary for Ireland Isla° made ti very animated speech
—(A. laugh)—on that occasion. lie (Mr. Osborne) did
not use the term invidiously; he meant that the Right
lion. Baronet was excited. (The Hen. Gentleman
proceeded to read some passages from the speech of Sir
W. Somerville, who said, be had heard, but did no!
believe, that it was not the intention of the Government
to re•open the question of the Irish Church, and who
appealed to the Conservative and Christian gentlemen
of England whether, if they were in the situation of the
Irish people, they would submit to that establishment,
adding, that he little knew the spirit of the English
nation if they would not resist it.) He (Mr. Osborne)
wished to ask that Right-Honourable Baronet, as a Con-
servative and a Christian gentleman, whether he was
now prepared to resist that Church ?—(Hear, hear, and
a laugh.) The Right Hon. Member for Ripon also said,
during the same debate, that he admitted the Irish
Church to be the most important of all subjects—one
which he feared lay at the bottom of all their difficul-
ties. Lord Howick, now Earl Grey, said on the same
occasion, that if they meant to have peace in Ireland
they must reform the Established Church—(Hear, bear)
—that they must not shirk the question, but must deal
with the property of that Church. On that occasion
seven of the present Cabinet Ministers voted for the
motion. In 1844, so much afraid was the Noble Lord
at the head of the Government lest the question should
be taken out of his hands by Mr. Smith O'Brien, that
he moved for a Committee to inquire into the state of
Ireland, and a remarkable debate took place. (The
Hon. Member here read passages from the speeches
delivered by Lord J. Russell and Sir G. Grey in the
course of that debate. The Noble Lord said:—" With
regard to the Irish Church, the system I
should be disposed to adopt would be one
which would put the Established Church, as
regards Roman Catholics and Protestants,
„upon
a footing of the most perfect equality." air 0.
Grey said that when he was told the question of thi
Irish Church was beset with difficulties, he denied theta
to be difficulties sufficient to deter a Minister of the
Crown from dealing with it; and that nothing ap
peered to him worse, nothing more heasadous, than
for Parliament to declare that they would not entertait,
the question of the Irish Church because it was
beset with difficulties; adding—" The union must be
maintained, but a complete union sever um be effected
so long as the established and endowed Church of the
minority exclusively exists."—(Hear.) The * hole of the
Present Cabinet, and of the present race of Lords of tip
Treasury, and people of that class—(A laugh)—thee
voted, he believed, for the Noble Lorn's motion. Th.
last time the qee,tion of the Irish Church had been dis-
cussed in that House was in 1845. when Mr. Ward
moved an amendment upon the proposition of the Right
Hon. Member for Tumworth with resta-ct to the
Collect
of Maynooth. H' did not know hoe Irish Members wool,!
act upon this occasion, but he bead rain an i, kling
the course some of th se Ron. Members would uriol,
from what had already.feken place. The Hon. Mcnibt
for Roscommon had said, that this was not the, proper
time for bringing forward such a sabj..et;
that it wools
tend to excite discoid. Now, be found that the Hon.
Gentleman hod wirer, in the tows of his long Parlismea-