The Sun.
London, England, 1838-01-27 00:00:00

PENSION LIST.

Sir GEO. SINCLAIR would take that opportunity of
stating—[The House having been unoccupied for the last
fifteen minutes]—that he had no intention of renewing
the motion for placing the Hon. Member for Southwark
(Mr. Harvey) on the Pension List Committee. He did
not think it would be right to take up the time of the House
on a subject that had been fully discussed and disposed of.
At a few minutes past Five, Sir Augustus Clifford,
Usher of the Black Rod, walked up to the table, and sum-
moned the House to the House of Peers, to hear the
Royal assent given by Commission to certain Bills which
had passed both Houses.
The SPEAKER, with a considerable number of Members,
proceeded to the bar of the House of Lord 3.
The SPEAKER returned at a quarter past five, and
informed the House, that the Royal assent had been given
by Commisson to the Bills stated in our Lords' report.
LOWER CANADA GOVERNMENT BILL.
On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL; the House
went into a Committee on this Bill.
Mr. BERNAL having taken the Chair,

Lord JOHN RUSSELL then rose and said—Sir, upon
the question that this Bill be read a second time, I ad-
dressed some observations to the House with respect to the
course which we intended to pursue with regard to it. I
statedyesterday my view of the case with regard to a statement
Inade by my Right Hon. Friend the Member for Coventry,
and I then stated that I would be prepared this
day, after consulting with my colleagues, to state
the mode in which the Government meant to proceed
to this Bill, and, with respect to the amendments pro-
posed by the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite.
Accordingly Sir, the whole subject has been considered
by her Majesty's servants, and I have now to state what is
their opinion of the manner in which we ought to proceed
with this Bill. Sir, it was the anxious wish of her
Majesty's Government that Parliament should have
an opportunity of considering the whole of this subject,
and the whole of the policy which was intended
to be pursued. No one, I think, could find fault with
that proceeding ; indeed the only fault mentioned on the
first night's proceedings was that stated by the Right
Honourable Gentleman opposite, that we had not
brought forward the question in a more solemn
manner by a Message from the Crown, asking the
advice of Parliament on the subject. Sir, without taking
that mode of proceeding, we yet did think that it was right
that the whole of the policy to be pursued by the Govern-
ment should be laid before Parliament, and that Parlia-
ment should be called upon to decide with respect to that
policy.---(Hear„ hear.) In pursuing this view, we
certainly have placed ourselves in difficulties, with re-
spect to the manner in which that advice has been
asked. lam ready to admit that a part of that policy—
being the exercise of the prerogative of the Crown—that
either to enact or to place in the preamble of the Bill a recog-
nition of that policy, is a departure from the ordinary usages
of Parliament, but one which we thought justified by the ex-
traordinary nature of the occasion. But, Sir, the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite has questioned this mode of proceeding ;
he has found fault both with the form and the substance
of what we propose ; and my Right Hon. Friend the Member
for Coventry has called on us very emphatically to
declare whether we consider ourselves bound to
this preamble as an essential part of the measure.
Now, Sir, with respect to the nature of the proceedings, I
certainly am ready to say that it is not according to the or-
dinary forms of the House ; and, with respect even to the
substance, I am ready to declare, as I did in a
former debate, that the words proposed by the Right Hon.
Gentleman secure that which I think is essential should be
secured, to have been of this nature—for while you
propose to suspend the Constitution and liberties
of the Province of Lower Canada, you declare at
the same time that it is with a view to the perma-
nent arrangement on which those rights and liberties
should be maintained and secured. Sir, there is another

question, however, upon which I felt far greater difficulty,
and upon which I stated my difficulty to the House last
eight—that was, that having placed in the preamble
of this Bill a recognition of a part of the policy that we
proposed to pursue, that an alteration of the preamble
by which that part should be omitted would seem to
be an implied alteration of that policy. Her Majesty's
Government have again seriously considered this matter.
Now, Sir, the Right Hon. Gentleman's declarations upon
this subject are exceedingly important, and in fact upon
such declarations as are made by Members of this House,
much of the future proceedings of course will depend. The
Right Hon. Gentleman, as I understood him, declared that
he objected to the policy we proposed to be pursued, and
which is contained in an extract of a despatch from Lord
Glenelg to Lord Durham, describing that if Lord Durham
thought fit lie might, in a certain manner pointed out, take
the opinion and advice of the persons representing the
Government in Upper and Lower Canada. Now, Sir, if
the Right Hon. Gentleman had said that, in his opinion, that
policy was so faulty and likely to be so injurious to the
conntry that he could not agree to it, then undoubtedly it
would be the duty of himself or some other Member agreeing
with him, to have proposed to this House which is now as-
sembled for the purpose, and at present for the sole pur-
pose of advising the Crown on this emergency, to declare
that some address or resolution to the Crown was necessary,
to the effect that this House advised her Majesty not to
unction such policy. But, Sir, I have not heard the
Right Hon. Gentlemen go that length of condemnation ;
on the contrary, if I collected rightly what he stated yester-
day, and if I am now correct and not mistaken, his declara-
tion was, that although be did not agree in the particular
mode pointed out in these instructions, he considered it a
matter within the prerogative of the Crown, for which
the immediate advisers of the Crown ought to be re-
sponsible, and of which responsibility he would not re-
share, or admitting any par-
ticipation any
partn of the House, in that responsibility.
byth taking
Such being the declarations of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
we have felt it to be our duty to come to this conclusion,
that with respect to the preamble itself, so far as the Bill
is concerned, and looking to the importance of those.con-
siderations which my Right Honourable Friend be-
hind me (Mr. Ellice) suggested, we do not think
tliieeviin-iattihoneni on e
that the Bill of itself would be every materially injured
by an alteration of the preamble to the effect proposed by
the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Cheers from the Tories.)
Sir, with respect to the policy which is proposed to be pur-
sued, we have communicated it to the Parliament, both
in speeches of Ministers in this House, and in the
dispatches which we were commanded by her Majesty
to lay upon the table. Now, Sir, if those who are opposed
to that part o f the preamble which it is proposed to omit,
if they entirely disapprove of that policy, we think it is
incumbent upon them, if such is their opinions, to offer
their advice to the Throne, and to state in this House,f by
some defined motion, their condemnation of the policy which
we have so openly declared.—(Loud Ministerial cheers.)
If, on the contrary, their opinion is that that is a subject
upon which the House of Commons need not interfere—if
they should say that we ought not to involve the House of
Commons in..any part of the responsibility.-cif they are con-
tent to leave the whole responsibility on the shoulders of
the Government ; why then, Sir, we consider, upon a
view of this whole subject, that we are bound to
abide by that responsibility, and to consider that the House
of Commons is willing to allow the matter so to rest.—
(Cheers.) In short, that the Earl of Durham, in pro-
ceeding to Lower Canada, will proceed with those in-
structions, and that he will not consider his discretion fet-
tered by any resolution or any vote which has been come
to on this subject.—(Cheers.) Sir, with respect to the
Bill, the Governor of Lower Canada, no doubt, would be
satisfied with the Bill as it is proposed to be amended ; and
with respect to proceedings in this House, if none are taken,
then it is impossible to suppose that any censure can be
conveyed upon the policy proposed to be pursued.
Sir, I am glad to see the very general interest which is
taken upon this subject in this House, and that so many
gentlemen, animated no doubt solely with a view—(Loud
cheering from the ministerial benches, echoed by cheers
from the opposition side of the House)—to the proper
settlement of this question—(Continued cheering)—and
have attended the House at this stage of its pro-
ceeding.—(Loud and reiterated cheering.) And, Sir, as
the House is now so full, and there is that great attend-
ance, I will take this opportunity of stating again, not
what are the precise or particular instructions given with
respect to that part of the policy to Which the pre-
amble adverts, but what is the general nature of the po-
licy proposed to be pursued in that respect. Sir, it
has always seemed to us that with regard to this
subject, while it was our duty to call on the House
to suppress all appearance of resistance to authority,
and while it was our duty to provide for the carrying on of
Government in Canada, that we ought not to be parties in
any way to the suppositiOn that the great body of the
French Canadian inhabitants of Lower Canada, or any
other part of the inhabitants of Lower Canada, were to
be made the subjects of proscription or injustice, es
a body, in consequence of what has taken place.
--(Hear, hear.) It is our view, therefore, that in any
future settlement with regard to the affairs of Lower Ca-
nada, that the wishes and the opinions of the people inha-
biting that Province should be duly consulted.—(Hear,

hear, hear.) Sir, if it were ever necessary to say this, I ' degree abated ; and I felt perfectly satisfied that either by
think it necessary to do so at the present time. I think it a najoritv, or by the hope of a majority, or by the volun-
is necessary to do so, when the insurrection which Sir John t .ry adoption of my amendments
Colborne with so much energy met—(Cheers)—is declared 'that pea on would prcvai', and that the objectionable clauses
would be struck from this Bill.—(Opposition cheers.)
by that Gallant Officer to be almostat an end, and to say : Sir, my confidence has been justified by the result, for I
that when that insurrection ;hail be at an end, the an
understand the Noble Lord to declare that he is preperetd
feelings roused—naturally roused—in those who were
gtirle y I to adopt without qualification the prepositions I have
objects of enmity in tbat province, shall not form the rule l made.—(Cheers.) It is therefore wholly nuneeessary
and the pride of the gaverning body representing Great i for me now to declare What my own views and inten-
Britain in the province of Lower .Canada. Sir, I feel dons are, unless to preclude the possibility of mitt-
this, because I totally differ from the morality which has construction. I did not move for the simple omission
lately been laid down at the bar of this House, and echoed
within this House—that success is to be the only criterion of of the preamble of the Noble. Lord, hut I expressly
stated what was the substitute I proposed. I proposed,
rebellion. lam not prepared to agree to a code, by which John that upon mature consideration—l prepesed that in lieu
Hampden and Jack Cade should be placed on the same of the preamble of the Noble Lore!, there should he in-
level, and according to which Mas iniello of Naples should serted in a p trt of the preamble of the Noble Lord,
be covered with eternal laurels, while the name of Algernon words which were to the following . effect :—" that
Sydney should be consigned to immortal infamy.—( Cheers.) in order that temporary provision srlott:(1 be made for
I am not prepared, therefore—while Ido not estimate the the Government of Canada, in order that Parliament
merits of insurrection by its success—l am not Prepared to should be enabled, after mature deliberation, to make per-
estimate its guilt by its failure.—(Cheers.) I consider manent provision for the Constitution and Government of
still—as at the commencement of this insurrection—that Canada"—l did not say for the Governmetit mereisa and
thca greater part of those who were led into it, have beeniinserted the word" Constitution" fur the express purprise
led into it chiefly by their own ignorance—partly
of implying that that Government should be a constitutional
by
the ill-construction of the powers of Government of one—l added the words "that the basis should be a per-
Lower Canada, and partly by the acts and seductions of manent one,' and also added " that the basis should
certain ill-disposed persons in that country—(Hear,)—who be one which,would secure the rights and liberties, and pro- •
made those unfortunate and misguided persons the tools of
their mote the interests of all classes of her Mejestes subjects."
machinations. I therefore desire in any settlement of the
By, using the words " interests of all classes of her Majea-
affairs of Lower Canada, that the interests of those persons
ty, s subjects,,, I did claim for Parliament the right of taking
should comprehensive view of the whole subject—of considetingg
should be fully and entirely consulted.—(Hear bear.) I
therefore stated to the House that it is a t of ou the claims of British subjects, and of providing by the esta-
views that when tranquillity shall have been restored,r blishment of a representative system for tile protection of
that the general opinion of the province may be gathered British property, British feelings, and British opinions.
—though I do not now enter into the manner in By the words " rights and liberties," I expressly
which it may be gathered—and shall be communicated meant to imply that every right which the French
to Parliament ; and that we should not impose Canadians now possess, either 17 csptulation or
upon that people, a charter which would by them be con- by treaty, should be strictly reserved to them ; that those
sidered as a badge of slavery.—(Hear, hear.) I think rights in respect to religion, and in respect to every peculiar
rather, Sir, we should endeavour to come to. some settle- privilege derived from capitulation or treaty, should be pre-
[Dent agreeable to their habits, and in accordance to served to them. I did also imply that all French Canadians,
their notions. We should look to secure to them, and likewise those of British birth and connections, should
tranquillity for the future, and this consideration will
Ihave the benefit of a free Constitution on a permanent basis.
be an essential part of the policy which I mean t
lion,
also say that I shall freely waive all minor considera-
propose, and I do not think it will be possible other- ,
be
order. that, by unanimity, the auerem,cy of England
wise to carry on the Government in such a manner that may ememoatinftained.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I have framed my
this House can be reconciled to its justice. —(Hear.) amendment
. further declarationortllis
of my
. I will not therefore make any
All those who have seen the newspapers which have come
meats for the recordoofmy opinions ; but refer to my amend-
from Upper and Lower Canada must be aware how highlysentiments.—( He sr, hear.) The
Noble Lord who has •u-mtysiaet ownhas entered somewhat une
irritated the feelings of some parties in that rovince
and how great a wish there is to push things province
an excess.lie' necessarily into the policyentirely
with it'll intendshin, hoe instance,
In somel re-
_ spect sin
Canada t iso p.i -
—(Hea r , hear.) I wish now to state to the House, that nion that the British Government should apiieakinrTi
in abandoning—as lam prepared to abandon—that part r_he noble light of an arbiter between the two extreme parteisa.
of the preamble which has been objected to—(Loud
be
loagree with him that the settlement of the affAis should rot
cheers from the Opposition side of the House)—still left to eitherd party, even to the British, exasperated—
think rated_
think that the position of the Governor sent from this justly exasperated—as arsepveoriatt eas
hasit is, by theb frivolous and wanton at-
country should be that which was described by the Hon, temtttjauostt
give
oento suppressed ;
,but sill,
Member-for Newark, who always speaks with great ability being exasperated, which
would
on this subject—(Hear)—and that this country should be a to be arbiters in this quarrel. Itg is beeatlmletvieen it"efele'lowheer
mediator between the two parties in the Colonies,---( Hear.) justness of this policy that I think it would have beepenybe'st andt
My opinion is, that by that means only can peace be Pre- most prudent to give the British Governmetit the power to be
arbiter, and that you ought to have enforced that policy by
served. My opinion is, that by that means, and the pre-
such a preponderating force as might strike tern ,r into those
servation of our supremacy in the province, can its perms- who might be disposed to resist the supremacy of the Crown.
neat prosperity and happiness be secured.—(Hear, h —(Hear, hear.) It is Lot, by volunteers, hastily embodied,
hear.) I ant not afraid, like many who have lived
of either
byi British troops, flee from participation in the feelings
in the colony, that those who are of British oeitterparty,
and ready
ddetermined to put d awn all attempts at
-10 scent can be permanently oppressed by its ancient inha- insurrection,(Hearanhorn.a)y fietrisainjeyenemerrney, that it should be
bitants. My opinion is, that if we secure not only to the done.—(Hear, urseernmeero.tneurf in that policy,th
British, but to the ancient settlers, every right and privilege that I condemn the policy of Go
which they ought to possess, that they may live together because they did not forsce the great probability that, on our
in peace and harmony, and in the end, as they are to resolutious reaching Canada, some popular commotion would
have a constitutional government, I do hope and follow ; and for having no other means for suppressing revolt,
except enrolling exasperated partisans.-:-( Hear, hear.) Sir,
trust that those British feelings and opinions which
the Noble Lord this evening takes a different view of this
are the best and safest foundation of a Constitutional mat-
ter from that which he took yesterday evening.— (Laughter.)
Government—(Hear, hear,)—which are more essential to He does not now see that any inconvenience can arise from
its proper working than any articles or provisions that the omission of those words—that any reflection can be cast
may be inserted in it—(Hear, hear)—I do hope, Sir, upon Government for the omission of those words—but be
that these feelings may pervade the province of Lower Ca- says—" If you object to the policy we mean to pursue, why
nada, and that actuated by them, the people of Canada will do you not propose a vote of censure on our instructions ?"
carry on their Contitutional Government with the freedom Why, my principle i e that we havenothino.b to do with those
and liberty, and ikewise, I trust with the temper and mode- instructions,—(Cheers.) I will rot call in qu is-ion the exer-
ration which have always distinguisded the Parliament of vise of that prerogative of the Crown, by wh.ch Lord Dur- -
this country.—( Hear, hear, hear) In this country, ham has been appo'nted ; I have not said a single word
against that appointment; I knew too well the importance of
with the exception of some' extreme contests, though there
maintaining the prerogative of the Crown.—( Renewed
has been every assertion of freedom on the one hand, there cheers.) I knew so well that the first attempt on the part of
has been a willingness on the other to give the Go- this House to call in question, without a great necessity, the
vernment on occasions of this sort every power which exercise
la of
saidthat prerogative would be highly dangerous, that
the Constitution allowed them. I have now stated what it isonewith wordthe against the appoistment. I shall
proposed to do with respect to the preamble of the Bill, act evoansn intently principlet.ain twith aspect to the in-
With respect to the clause which the Hon. Baronet had structions of YGovernment. same
becausenotlt ittboesceoinistrue-
given notice of his intention to move to have struck out, tions—l will vote no censure on them°
namely, the clause giving power to the Crown to repeal_ mence to examine their merits, there n-ay be part In conccuorrtn-
this Act., he (Lord John Russell) was still of opinion that it and part I condemn, and then I would hive no alternative but
selection. What would be the result ? That I shoal,' place
was defensible, because they had on a former occasion
myself—an individual Member—ia the prominent situeliou of
given power to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to proclaim
adviser to the Crown—( Hear)—and a party to those insteuc-
certain districts, and he was allowed to mitigate the seve- tions which are now about to be given under the sanction cif
rity of that power according to his discretion. But when
,the Crocco.—( Cheers. ) If I exercise the right of unqualified
he said this, lie was still of opinion that if any objec-
of and
respect
ooto
the detailed
right of qualified censure
Lion existed on the part of Parliament to give such a
ti. idnestrue.tions,. because it
power to the Crown, they had a right not: only to would be difficultPe to findt ftw,n.,),ulldingte
timeervelonngseott unqualifiedeee,,f
decide that question, but that, further, nothing like a le- condemnation. But what
gislative power ought to be given to the Crown, unless by the claiming for the House of Commons a articiigaltinon in. theily
unanimous voice of that House. (Hear,from the Opposition.) prerogative of the Crown ? It would be Pfortif :ine- the most
Therefore I cannot object to withdrawing that clause.— dangerous precedent ever established—that of ceiling on me
(Loud cheers from the Opposition Undies.) Sir, I per- to pronounce a priori on these inssructions.—( Hear, hear.)
Therefore I tell the Noble Lord that he may expect no vote of
ceive that this declaration is received with cheers by the
that
tdvemnation from roc on his instructions, and I abstain from
other side of the House—(Renewed cheers.) Sir, it would on the principleit on which I acted throughout. Ido
almost induce me to suppose that there are some persons not thinkte evenlin any to
shapehave seen i t those instruction:—
in this House who, notwithstanding the magnitude of this (Cheers) we
ruirtallby v(oHte,sca.rr other-
subject,h do not look entirely to a happy settlement of the wise, contract any share in teir resPolialAvielirt'v.
affairs of Lower Canada—( Loud cries " No, no," front the hear.) At the same time lam bound to salr that I shall hold
Opposition, and tremendous cheers from the Ministerial Government entirely responsible for these instructions.—
benches)—but to have a party purpose to answer in their (Hear, hear.) The circumstance of passing them, and main-
tainin silence, will not involve me in the slightest responsible
support of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite.—(Renewed e-
lity. °I shall claim as perfect a right hereafter to question
cries of " No, no" from the Opposition, and reiterated
those instenetions as if I had never bear I of them until
cheering.) Sir, if that is not the case .I am glad that
now,—(Hear, hear.) I dill say further to the Node Lord,
it is not so, and then I may hope that there will be nearly
that,fom sohifeahr as my opinion is concerned. I concur in the policy
a unanimity upon this subject, because, with respect to the
how
farNV I
concurtse instructions issued. I have already declared
objections taken to the two parts of the Bill, not essentialconsultrey.
thethink-
ft il t. most
parts, lam willing to accede to the suggestion of the Right that care should be taken I:,ooinstructions
themselves all parties
Hon Baronet, and I understand him to say, that any in Canada ; but when we talk of those ins.tert:
powers necessary for carrying on the Government I must say that I think them completely absurd.—( Chers)
and legislation of Lower Canada he is willing to grant.— Now tell me whether it was consistent with common sense for
(Laughter and renewed cheers from the Opposition.)
the Noble Lord to wait until the last moment smith his instruc.
For any powers beyond those in the Bill Ido not wish to dons? If at an earlier period he had asked me to recognise his
i should ave taen the liberty to propose an
insist.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet is willing
amendmentuctions, onl them, as hwell salon the prearnele of the Bill. As
to grant us the chief provision which our Bill contains.—
the adviser of a contre projet, my wo.ds to Lord Durham would
have
(Laughter and cheers from the Opposition.) Sir, with respectyou.
desirousl h ave deolfayoehtitLnitnil thethe last moment. advising
to the policy which is contained in the instructions whichlatest
which i. i rr
haveniati ot,re,—e n
have been laid before this House, I declare that we main- (Laughter)—of the success of the efforts
taip that policy—that we stand by that policy—and that, made for the suppression of revolt for the purpose of ascertain-
though we accept the amendments of the Right Honour- ing the exact situation of parties, and the f. clings of indivi-
able Baronet, we do not abandon that policy.—(Con- duals." I would have said to him—" As Parliament has
tinued laughter, and ironical cheers from the Oppo- given you an immense authority, unincninbcred with any in-
sition Benches.) Sir, lam only affirming the sentiments structions, a fortiori, I think it is incumbent en us to leave you
on your arrival at your Government to determine the best
and uttering language which have been held by those op-
way of acting, and so far from fettering yoit, who are not to
polite, when I declare that with regard to a subject of this
sail until the tst of April—(Great laughter)—with instruc-
nature, if there is a want of confidence in the policy which
tions given the 20th of January—(Continued laughter)—im-
is to be pursued—if the instructions given are condemned, plying a total want of confidence in your means of obtaining
it is for those who condemned them to make a specific information, and absolutely undertaking to dictate to you Low
motion for carrying their policy into effect.—(Continued many youareito select from this
i ir;e a
s place, and how many
cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Sir, I repeat we from menthat—how many
do not abandon our policy. Sir, we do not make any ex- from the Lower—so Y from the u
far fro offeringe you an, and
d howsuee manyestiefroms
traordinary assumption of the approbation of the House of I shall state to you generally the views of *Government, and
our policy ; but we do feel justified in considering leave you to form your own judgment—to find out the best
that, if no condemnation is pronounced, none is in- means of giving effect to those views."—( Hear, hear.) Now
tended, and that our discretion is left free.—(Cheers.) which course would be the more conformable to common
Sir, with these observations I believe I may close the state- sense ? As you have that unlimited confidence in the Earl of
Durham, which your appointment implies, would it not be bet-
meat of the course which we intend to take with respect to
ter to leave him entirely to his own discretion?—(Hear.)
this Bill. I will again declare that if there is a part of the Now the Noble ,Lord challenges me to give my opinion
Bill which gives the Governor-General an exorbitant onhi '
s instructions,hne I will not give it to hint in a formal shape,
power, which is Rot necessary for carrying on the Govern- but in a private shape, and by way of index—(Laughter)--to
ment, let the clauses be amended in that respect ; them. You leave Lord Durham no option on his arrival,
but Ido hope that the House will take care that they but either to call no meeting of Representatives or else a par-
establish a Government in Canada which is capable ticular meeting. You say you will not impose on him the
of inspiring respect in that country, and that they will necessity of calling on the advising Committee, but if he does
see that they do not renounce the hope, and I trust the think it necessary to call a Committee, he can hale no other
well-founded hope, of erecting:a Constitutional Government but the'.—(Hear, hear.) And you ask Parliament to be a
party to that arrangement. Suppose, on his arrival, he
in that country.---(Loud cheering.) should find a great difference-of opinion existing among the
Sir R. PEEL—Sir, when I first became possessed of
materials
lof a hich he was to form his Committee : suppose
the Bill of the Noble Lord for making a temporary provi-nhofuordthseaythwere
of
fot willing to co-operate with the
sion for the Government of Lower Canada, I availed myself theyCr a a,thisis itr?guleisttonern;ealsiooslymabeiceutlod you
of the earliest possible opportunity of giving public notice, then act? Now, adjustmentl ask you,
con-
that there were two provisions in that Bill to which I fine him to five districts, in which, as has been stated, not two
entertained an insuperable objection—that it was my inten- in one hundred can read or write—( Hear, hear)—to find per-
tion to move an amendment upon them—and to take sons to-assist him in framing a new Constitution for Canada?
the sense of the House for the purpose of having Would it not bo better to leave him to determine whet was
the deliberate decision of Parliament. I took the the best way of conciliating public opinion than to bind him
down by instructions on the 20th of January? I will not
course—rather an unusual one—of . giving notice of the
nowfurthe_r notice your instructions, Lut I will tell you that I
amendments which I- meant to propose, for the express pur-
mthenanmaennddmthetaitt,s certains as was of succeeding in
pose of disclaiming any advantage from concealment—
for the purpose of enabling the Noble Lord to take those condemn
carryingyoun-ii wi)thdraw your amendments,
equally
coi 1 instructions —(Loadcorfident
cheer:.)
I that
ern) I
measures which are usually taken on important matters, for say you will not defend them—that if, after suppressing.
the purpose of securing such an assemblage of Members the revolt in Canada, you wish to con ciliate the feelings
as should clothe the decision of this House with the impor- of its inhabitants, you will not maintain ycur instruir-
tont character of numbers. And, Sir, from the first-I tions. By these instructions Lord Durham would be
never entertained the slightest doubt, that I should sue- empowered to call together three from the Legislative
ceed.—( Loud cheers from the Opposition.) I felt satisfied
• Council of Upper Canada and ten of its representatives--
that the amendments I should propose, were founded upon and their advice may be very judicious with respect to
reason and common sense, and I paid that compliment to
Upper Canada; but then, with respect to Lower Canada, he
thl House of Commons, to believe that they could not by will have thirteen from the Upper Province, and three of his
own selection from the Legislative Council of the Lower,
possibility resist the adoption of them.—(Loud cheers.) giving him a majority of sixteen to ten on all petftions.ire'ata
And when I heard gentlemen on the other side say, that tvnegint,otactihtehliroLvoisionr
eneardsary for the
l,expensesear
wo i
tic: cavil , Go-
these very words in the preamble constituted in their eyes
the chief, if not the sole, recommendation of this Bill—
(Opposition cheers)—when I read in the organs of Go- toim ptheeaola'nwlesaatff,ectvinee the tenaU—res( of land an I those relettirlectot
Lo; d Durham will on'his arrival be z.lle te jeer?,
vernment denunciations of my motives and feelings, my of the feelings of the Canadians ; but I say to decide them by
confidence in ultimate success was not in the slightest a minority of sixteen from the Upper Province in its present
degree diminished.—(Continued cheering.) Nay, when I ' state of exasperation agaiust Lower Car.ads
would beano a sheer
insult to the latter Province. Now, let me ask any nabe
heard the Noble Lord last night say, speaking of my ob-
jections, that, if they were objections of form, he would mar, which is the most likely to be successful, to leave Lord
Durham unshackled in May, ut judgetfrorn the state of feel-
withdrawhis opposition—ifthey were objections of substance
inglwhich may, exist,ttobentn., and takean his measures accord-
he should have some difficulty—( Hear, hear)—and when I nyslioirlltbeesay hi If you :al:u. Committee
nonfeAr,d, vice
declared that my objections were not objections of form, butconstrained to call it in a‘ tyart
objections of substance—(Cheers)—still my confidence in youen ige him in fact, to convene an Assembly,i ‘theintra.a.tters re-
-1 the reasonablenessof this proposition was notin the slightest ' ',erred to Which will principally concern the feelings and pas-

sion3 of Lower Canada, but which will consist of a majority
from the Upper Province and of those nominated by the
Crown ?—( Hear, hear.) Now I do think, after the challenge
which has been given me to express my opinion, that it would
buncandid of me to withhold it. I do not say I doubt the
bonest intentions of your instructions, but, looking at the
clumsy manner in which they have been framed—a manner
most calculated to frustrate your own intentioas, and prevent
what all must most desire—a union on a comprehensive sys-
tem of Upper and Lower Canada—l must say that I decidedly
object to them. I would be far from imposing on Lord Duro
ham unnecessary restrictions ; it is you who have given him
preliminary instructions. I know why you have promul-
gated them so early : if you followed the spirit of the Con-
stitution you would have deferred them until he was
; but it was necessary to print your instructions in order
to prop up your Bill.---( Hear, hear, and cheers.) You had
nothing left but the melancholy alternative of publishing your
instructions three months before the proper time, and I tell
you again that, as you gave way on my amendments, so
also will be obliged to repeal your instructions.—(Loud
cheers.) I totally discard those instructions ; I am sorry
I referred to them. I leave them to Lord Durham, but I
will not relinquish on the part of Parliament the power to
afterwards open this question. It may not be necessary at
once to institute an inquiry at the bar, but suppose we should
say to this Assembly, discarding all paltry considerations of ex-
pense, " We don't want to exercise a barren dominion over
you—it is our object to fortify the connection bet Ween the
mother country and her colony. We ask nothing from you ;
the risk of defending you in the moment of difficulty is
greater than any advantage we caw derive from the alliance."
If we say this, it may be necessary to resolve ourselves into a
Committee of this House, to take the whole question under
our deliberation, and to frame some settlement which will in-
clude Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and in that case the
instructions must come under our consideration. If we could
hit on a plan for a domestic Legislature in these provinces
which would unite them in dependence on, and friendly con-
nection with, Great Britain, maintaining an amicable under-
standing between both, I would be the first to advocate it, and
if the time should ever come, as I do not believe it ever will
come, when the connection shall be opposed to the common
interest, I shall not oppose separation. But I believe that a
time will come when this Radical effervescence will subside,
and a feeling in favour of Old England and her free institu-
tions will predominate in these provinces, connected as they
are by birth and language with us, in spite of the vicinity of
nations governed upon a democratic principle.—( Cheers. )
When the danger will threaten, they will all rush, impelled by
a common instinct, to the assistance of the mother country,
whose name and character will rally the men of British birth
or descent round her standard. They will not forfeit the glo-
rious prerogative of sharing in her dangers and her victories.
Loud cheers.) I will not, therefore, by consenting to any
such instructions as these, prevent Parliament from instituting
an inquiry as to the practicability of effecting a union between
the two provinces. But my feeling is, that, considering the
comparative weakness of the two provinces, in a union with
us they would reap all the advantage.--( Hear, heir.) Such
a union, preserving to them all their rights, would elevate
them in the scale of nations ; hut if we are to protect them,
we must have the means—not for our profit, but for their own
government.—( Hear. )
Mr. E. E L L ICE did not rise for the purpose of answering
the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, but to express to the
House how deeply he felt to his Noble Friend below him for
the concession he had made for the sake of the great cause
which all had at heart, by withdrawing that portion of the
preamble of his Bill to which the Right Hon. Baronet had
made objection, for the sake of producing unanimity as to the
principle.—( Hear, hear.) Ile saw no difference in the prin-
ciples laid down by the Right Hon. Baronet and those of his
Noble Friend.—(A laugh,) Both agreed that the utmost
latitude should be given to the Noble Lord to whom the ar-
kl's task had been entrusted of attempting to reconcile the
differences of Canada. He should have powers to settle a
Cor stitution which would meet the wishes of the French Ca-
na liens. He agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet that every
right which had been conceded to them by treaty, or capitula.
tion, or justice, should be fully and fairly continued to them ;
at the same time he ;tweed with the Right Hon. Baronet that
in fully ,ecuring those rights it was necessary for this country
to take some security to prevent a repetiiien of such scenes
as hal lately disgraced that colony. With respect to the
instruct one, he perhaps agreed more with the Hon mraVe
Baronet than with her Majesty'e Ministers.—( Hear, hear.)
Aol he would freely state to the House, and they were
aware that it was lie e ho had advised Ministers to give up
the preemb:e, that he agreed with the Right Honourable
Baronet that it was much better at once to propose this Biil,
st iting its principle, and asking front their friends confidence
for Government—that confidence which they had a right to
expect—( Hear, hear, and cheers)—and then to give to their
representative instructions to enable him to carry into effect
their own measures. His Honourable Friend the Member
for Sheffield, in giving his support to thi§ Bill, stated that he
did so in full confidence of the principle stated in the
preamble. That principle the Honourable Member per
Fi .sbury said was the only part he approved of, as being
the part which offered conciliation to the Canadiano. Whv,
that was the only part he ( Mr. Ellice) liked himself. He
would not vote for Ministers if he did not feel convinced
that they only contemplated a temporary suspension of rights,
to be restored by th,m at the earliest period the i,:terests of
th country would &low. —( Hear, hear.) But le• did not
see that this preanibLywas absolutely necossary to induce them
to give it their feeble support. They were all, even the
Hun 'uraLlc Baronet; agreed as to the principle, an he thought
it would be detrimental to the end they all had in view if they
differed in matters of det el. In the Right Han. Baronet's
project of uniting all the American colonies under one Govern-
ment he entirely concurred, but he thought that in the present
state of the public mind it would be rather a dangerous topic
to ten oduce in the proposed convention of estates. He always
thought there would be a great difficulty in :adopting such a
measure, there were so many opposing parties in the country,
and the difficulty would be increased by the feelings arising
out of the recent conflict ; but he was sure that, it Govern-
ment could not unite ihp;n for good, they would rather aban-
don them altogether. He was confident that, from what he
knew of Canada, by a system of conciliation a great eeel might
65 efft-cts.d —( Hear, hear.) When he came into the House
last night to make a proposition to his Noble Friend to with-
dr:ex the portion of his Bill which was likely to give rise to
party divieione, he hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would give
hint credit for being total), disinterested in the matter. He
H d to conciliate all eserties so that their decision would
have the weight with the world it ouelit to have. He foresaw
that if Government had persisted in maintaining the preamble
that they would have obtained but a bare majority, and that all
sorts of misrepresentations would have been the consequence.
And, interested as he teas personally in this question, he congra-
tulated the House and the country on the likelihood there was
their coming to an unanimous decision.—( Hear, hear.)
With respect to his Noble Friend below him, lie knew him to
be incapable of proposing anything to that House restraining
the constitutional privileges of any part of the empire, and such
was his confidence in his Noble Friend that be would give him
his support in any measure, from a knowledge of his character.
—( Hear, hear.) Whether the preamble was maintained or
Lot, it formed no grouuds for Hon. Members to alter their in-
tention of supporting the Bill. He had avoided this discus-
sion from the commencement of the debate, but had altered
that conduct last night, and he was sorry to say that one of the
obse nations he had then made use of had been misconstrued.
In speaking of the conduct of the American Government, he
had raid that their conduct had been most generous, while he
was represented to have said that they were always on the
watch to take advantage of the misfortunes of England.--
( Hear, hear.) He could speak from personal knowledge of
the amicable feeling which existed amongst all classes in Ame-
rica towards this country ,and he should be shocked to think
that he mad uttered any opinion of a contrary tendency. What-
ever feelings might have formerly existed, arising out of old and
unhappy differences, ho believed that now but one feeling
existed throughout the whole of the Anglo-Saxon race, and
that was, that in all countries they should unite for the fur-
therance of liberty and free institutions.—( Hear.) He be-
lieved that the measures which his Noble Friend had taken
two years since to prevent a quarrel between France and
America, and the late conduct of the States, more particu-
larly of the States of York and Vermont, were likely to do
more to cement that good understanding than any induce-
ment arising from commercial interests. He could assure the
House that the part his Noble Friend had taken in the dis-
e-
pute between France and the States would never be forgotten
in that country.—( Hear, hear.) So far from the United
States feeling an interest in creating divisions in our colonies,
he believed it was their wish to give every assistance to the
British Government. Some Gentlemen had said that the
sentiments of the Government of the States were not partici-
pated in by the people of that country, but be believed that in
the late contest their efforts, so far from being directed against
England, were all for her advantage. Their conduct through-
out had been mark©d by a total forgetfulness of self-interest.
—( Hear.) The connection between the two countries was
ten times more advantageous to Canada than to England,
and when peace was again restored in the colony, the best way
to win Canada over would be to show her in detail the advan-
tages she derived from us ; and at the same time to show that
we had no desire for dominion. He congratulated the House
on the result of last night's debate, and though the Noble
Lord (the Secretary for the Home Department) might in
making the omissions from the preamble subject himself to
some symptoms of party triumph, he might well console him-
self by reflecting on the good results which would be produced
in the colony by the unanimity which his concession would
produce in the House. —(Hear. )
Mr. D. W. HARVEY having expressed no opinion upon
this interesting and momentous subject out of the walls of
Parliament, and having had no opportunity of giving an
opinion upon it within them, owned he was anxious, and at
some length, to trespass upon the attention of the House in
stating the reasons which had induced him upon a recent
occasion to vote against the second reading of this Bill ; but
be should relieve the House at that moment from the appre-
hension that he was about to do so, because he could not
rise to speak to a Bill the contents of which he did not
know.—( Hear and laughter.) The Bill (continued Honour-
able Gentleman) upon which we have had a debate for the
last week, the Bill framed with so much care and so much
legal judgment, brought forward after long and anxious
consultation, with the sanction of the highest legal authority,
was naturally presented to our attention as being perfeet in
all its parts—having no ambiguity in its object—no undue
verbosity in its expressions.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
And yet so true is it in legislation, as in the higher in-
terests of human affairs, " we know not what an hour may
bring forth."—(Cheers and laughter.) In the short in•
terval of four aad twenty hours this Bill, so perfect
and mature, has been decapitated, and lost its tail.—
(Great laughter and cheering.) I hope, then, I shall be ex-
cused if I reserved any remarks I may have to make until the
period when, peradventure, we may be led to hope the Bill

will be perfection itself; that is to say, when it shall be sub-
mitted to the House for the third time. But I still hope that
the conversation which we have bad this evening, by far the
most valuable of all the discussions we have had upon this
subject, will not be allowed to pass away as a shadow, and
to leave no effect upon it. I hope we may be allowed to
implore the leader ( Sir Robert Peel) of the powerful party
who range themselves upon the opposition benches to throw
aside the sin which besets him of being the leader of that
party, and that he will hereafter continue in his course of
well-doing to counsel the Cabinet—( Cheers and laughter)—
to throw around it the shield of his protection, and to spare
her Majesty's Ministers and the nation from the evils which
otherwise beset them.—( Laughter and cheers.) The course
which the Right Honourable Baronet has recently pursued
reminds me of the practice in a lawyer's office when I
was a lad. When a draft was first prepared it was sub-
mitted to some subordinate member of the profession—gene-
rally to somebody under the bar, who had his small fee and
advised upon it; but when in a subsequent stage, it came to
be more seriously and gravely considered, it was sent to
some master mind—to the very highest in the profession
who perused the deed, and finally determined the terms of it.
Now, it would seem that, although we have a Cabinet of
small men—( Great laughter)--who consider and put together
their crude notions and thoughts, they are obliged, after they
have thrown them into the form of a draft, to send it for re-
visal to the leader of the Opposition.—(Great laughter and
cheers.) And what a splendid instance of disinterestedness
was here offered to the leader of the Opposition, who whilst
he gives all his important advice gratis, allows the little people
to take all the fees.—(Great laughter and cheering.) This
in many respects is full of consolation. It will greatly tend
to dispel those ungenerous imputations which have been very
unsparingly cast upon the conduct and sentiments of many
1 gentlemen in this House. Because, although Ido not hesi-
: tate to say that in some material respects I differ from those
Honourable Gentlemen with whom I concurred in opposing the
second reading of this Bill, although lam far from considering that
our colonial possessions ought to be lightly treated, or slightly
considered of—yet it is not to be forgotten that nearly all those
sentiments and suggestions which have since been popularised,
inasmuch as that they have been taken up". by the Hon. Gen.
tlernan opposite, were thrown out in the first instance
by the Gentlemen to whom I allude, and upon whom so
many ungenerous and injurious imputations have been
cast. The Right Hon. Baronet mentions it as a matter of
imputation upon the Government, that when they sent forth
arbitrary resolutions which had been the cause of all the mis-
chief in Canada, but which were so vehemently and almost
universally supported in this Heuse, they did not, at the same
time make a sufficient demonstration of military force, which,
said the Right Hon. Baronet, would have protected the colo-
nies from the frightful scenes of devastation which have been
exhibited in them. But let it not be forgotten that all the
gentlemen who resisted those resolutions—though they did
not admonish the Government to send out a strong military
force, yet distinctly foretold that if they were passed they
could only be sustained and carried into operation by the aid
of an increased military power. Then are gentlemen who are
few in number, and who may labour under the reproach of
being too philosophical in their views, to be treated as nought,
because they have not a powerful party behind them to voci-
ferate every sentence, to turn every period, and to give im-
portance to suggestions which have no inherent weight or value
in themselves ? The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Coventry has, I own, sprung a mine tending much to dis-
perse the clouds which have hitherto hung around this ques-
tion. He has expressed a hope that the House will cone to
an unanimous vote upon the subject. I agree with him in the
vast importance which must be attached to the Bill's re-
ceiving the unanimous support of the House ; and after the
discussion of to-night I think that prospect is not entirely
hopeless. In the present distracted state of parties in Ca-
nada—the one party struggling for popular rights, the other
endeavouring to sustain the prerogative—it is very possible
that there may be no other means of controlling these rivals
that by extinguishing both ; but before I resort to a measure
so despotic I must be assured that there are no other means
by which it may be possible far me to attain the end I
have in view. It has, therefore, from the beginning of the
discussions upon this sulsject appeared to me that whilst I
should be most prompt to confer those great and respon-
sible powers upon the Noble Earl who has, I think, been most
happily elected by her Majesty's Government—( Cheering)_
as he does, the friends of freedom wherever he goes—l should
at the same time be little disposed to fetter him in the exer-
cise of the mighty authority with which he is clothed.
Why should he he curbed or fettered ? Arc the Govern-
ment disposed to give him the vast authority with which they
1 vest him under suspicion ? If not, let him go forth
armed with this Bill, and let it contain a provision that shall
enable him in all respects-to act as in his judgment he shall
deem wisest and best.—( Hear, hear.) I have read—and I
hope every gentleman whem I now address has done the same
i —the whole of the papers which have been produced upon
this subject. For one, I can say, that there is not a report,
nor a particle of the testimony from any witness examined be-
'ore any of the Committees which have met upon the sub-
ject, nor a line of the correspondence which has taken place
between the Coloniil Secretary and the different Governors
of the provinces, from the year 1829 down to the present rno -
\
ment, which I have not carefully perused ; and I own it
,:traces me that there is every reason to hope—and recent cir-
i eumstances tend to confirm that hope—that if Lord Durham,
armed with the present Bill, were allowed to dissolve the pre-
s. it Assembly in Lower Canada and to convene another, he
would find that Assembly scarcely less devoted to Bri-
tish interests—scarcely less inclined to follow out desir-
able objects than this llouse itself. The improving spirit
of the House of Assembly, even with Mr. Papineau
as its Speaker, must have struck every one who has
read with attention the despatches from Lord Gosford.
! Let me mention an instance. Papineau was Speaker of the
House, and it is important to bear that fact in mind, when an
I Address was proposed to the Assembly condemnatory of the
I policy of this country. An amendment was moved by one of
1 the opposite party, and w hat was the division ? Not is ith-
stnnding the fact of Papineau being Speaker—and we all
know the meri'ed weight which a Speaker's opinion has in all
assemblies of this description—notwithstanding the fact of
that individual throwing the, whole of his weight and influence
on the side of the address, when the Assembly came to divide
, upon the question the numbers were, forty-eight for the origi-
-1 nal motion, and thirty-two for the amendment. This is suf-
ficient to show that there was, at that time, a strong British
feeling in the House of Assembly. The disparity of numbers
between forty-eight and thirty-two was not so great as to show
an overwhelming influence on one side. It scarcely amounted
to more than a Government majority in any Assembly ; and
Lord Gosford, in several of his despatches, distinctly inti-
mates his belief that the time will come when the Assembly
tray be successfully appealed to. Why then should not
the representatives of this interesting people be at once con-
' sulted? There is another point growing out of the conversa-
tion of this evening, for it c seld hardly be called a debate,
which provokes the consideration of the House. It is this.
For what purpose are the instructions (or extracts from them)
which have been given by Lord Glenelg to Lord Durham
I placed upon the table of this House ? Are they to be dealt
with by us ?—or are they to remain there for the artful and
subtle purpose, if the necessity should hereafter arise, of lead-
ing the world to suppose that they were sanctioned by the
House of Commons ?—( Hear.) Having dwelt at some
length upon the impolicy of fettering the hands of the Go-
!vernor- General by such instructions as those which it was
I proposed to give, the Hon Gentleman concluded by saying
that if the Right Hen. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) would bring
' forward any proposition which had for its object the repeal of
the Resslution which had brought such heavy misfortunes upon
Canada, he would find a party, of which he (Mr. Harvey) was
one, who would give him a support as strenuous, and not less
sincere, than that which he received from those who surrounded
him.—( Hear.)
Viscount HO WICK—The Hon. Gentleman who has just
sat down has not failed to avail himself of the opportunity
which he thought was afforded to him by my Noble Friend's
concessions to endeavour to throw ridicule upon the Govern.
ment ; but I assure him, and I assure the House, that although
his wit was directed against ourselves, I, at least, was not pre-
vented from enjoying it ; because I felt that his sneers and
taunts were not deserved—( Hear, hear) ;—and even if they
had been deserved, I know that my Noble Friend—and I en-
tirely concur in his feeling—would never be deterred by any
sneers or by any taunts from taking the course which he
thinks it to be the duty of the Crown and of the public to pur-
sue.—( Hear.) I say, however, that these taunts and sneers
are not deserved.—( Hear.) The Right I-lon. Baronet has
stated in very strong language his condemnation of the course
which we have pursued in presenting these instructions to the
House, and also his opinion condemning the substance and the
nature of those instructions. I do not think, considering
how long the disputes in Canada have been going on,
how many professions have been made by different
Governments entertaining different opinions of a desire
to redress the grievances complained of by the Cana-
dians—considering all the circumstances, I do not think it
would have been fit or proper to have called upon this House
to consent to a measure of such coercion as this, unless we
had been able at the same time to give some account of the
means by which we might, at no very distant period, be ena-
bled to return to a more constitutional form of Government.
_( Hear.) I agree with the Right Honourable Baronet, that
if that hope had not existed, if I thought that the great body
of the Canadian people were entirely alienated from this coun-
try, 1 should say that the only question for us to consider,
would be how a final separation could be effected in the man-
ner most beneficial to the interests of the British settlers in the
province. I believe that to maintain our authority against the
will of the great body of the people, we should be driven
to acts of harshness—to acts of oppression—which would
certainly lower the character of this country, to
the level of those powers whose oppressive proceedings so
often form the subject of deprecation in this House. I believe
that such a mode of proceeding would be a constant source of
endangering a war ; and, when war should have arrived,
would, in all probability, be productive of the greatest cala-
mities. Upon thus looking at this subject, it must be obvious
that it is not only necessary that we should conciliate the
greater body of the Canadians to our rule, but it is necessary
to do this to that degree that should gain their affections, so
that they may be induced to return as their Representatives
those who would concur with us in carrying on the govern-
ment of the province according to the forms of a free Consti-
tßu
it
gi ohnt .
Holnn.thriearnoenzett,plaancde
allsoamfroimndutnceydßtioghdtiffHeornf.roFmrietnhde
tnhigehtMinemgbeenrerfaolr I CaopypernotTrye, of whose very able speech last
nI
an
1a
1831 me 1
by
e,
been induced,
an
thepassed
opinion
I i
ns aya , t
differentht o
eyd i ff e r
from
ex-
pressedhettm in
hathtandistphare particular—namely,
form—had it been passed in the form proposed by the previous
Government, that is, by first assigning a Civil List to the
Government of the colony, those dangers and difficulties we
have since experienced would not have arisen.

THE SUN. LON'DON, SATURDAY, JANUARY 27, 1838,

Sir R. PEEL was here understood to intimate to the
Noble Lord that be had not expressed any such opinion.
Lord H IC K—l beg the Es'ig'nt Hon. Baronet's pardon.
I understood him to have objected to our surrendering the re-
venues imposed by the Act of 1774 without having previously
obtained a Civil List.
Sir R. PEEL was again understood to say that it was the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Coventry who made
that observation.
Lord HOWICK—I am aware that my Right Hon. Friend
did go at some length snto that subject, and I also thought
the Right Hon. Baronet did so ; but I have certainly misun-
derstood him, and I beg the Right Hon. Baronet's pardon.
But upon that subject I will make this remark—that I do not
understand how the difficulties of our present situation could
have been avoided by any line of policy which would not have
lad to an accommodation between the House of Assombly and
the executive authority. I believe that the representatives of
the people must have so much power pt.. into their hands,
that if they are not reconciled to the authority of the Govern.
merit, they must necessarily drive that Government to overstep
the acknowledged privileges and rights of the representative
body. And when that state of things arises, the repre-
sentative body, if fairly elected by the great body of the
population, will be supported in its rights, and will be
supported even so far as that of having recourse to force
by the body whom it represents. Thee, Sir, I say the pro-
blem which is to be solved, if we are to retain possession of
Canada, is this, how are we to re-conquer, not merely the
country, but the affections and hearts of the people ; the
affections and confidence of the people to this extent, that
their representatives in Parliament shall concur with us
in carrying on the Government? When we look at the
interests of all parties, when, particularly, we look at the
interests of that party by which the majority of the
House
of Assembly has been supported, we cannot help being im-
pressed with the conviction that to them more than to our-
selves the connection between the two countries is of the
greatest possible importance. If their peculiar laws and
manners be the objects for which they are contending, no
man, certainly, can doubt that if the protection or this coun-
try were withdrawn, surrounded as they are by a large po-
pulation of a different race, a change far more violent, more
sudden, and more sweeping than that which is now pro-
posed would most inevitably be visited upon them. When we
look again at their commercial advantages resulting from
the preference given to them by us, I cannot help thinking
that those advantages are far _beyond any which this country
can derive from the connection. Nor, Sir, do I sec in late
years any proof that the Canadian people, or even a majority
of those who hare taken an active part in the unfortunate dis-
turbances in Lower Canada, are insensible to those advan-
tages. We know that a little more than twenty years ago
the Canadian people did give the strongest and most un-
doubted proof of their loyalty to this country. I see no proof
that these feelings are changed ; although the majority of the
House of Assembly have, by means certainly most injudicious
and faulty, insisted upon accomplishing many alterations and
many changes, some of them undoubtedly indefensible. At
the same time no man in this Hous© has attempted to
deny that the conduct of the House of Assembly was jus-
tified in the earlier stages of this controversy by the
real grievances they sustained. A great proportioe of
those grievances have been redressed. But even still
it is not denied that further reforms in that country are
required. Upon the most important topic of all; that
which has been the ostensible csuse of the rupture which
has taken place between the House of Assembly and
the mother country, I mean the state of the Legislative Coun-
cil its .If, upon that very point that some reform is necessary
has been admitted. Unhappily, the House of Assembly, in-
stead of allowing the possibility of effecting such a reform to
he fairly and temperately discussed—instead of allowing us
time, after having received infermatien upon the subject,
to consider in what manner that reform might be effected,
did themselves make certain propcsitions for accomplishing
it, and insisted upon the adoption of one particular plan,
to which just objections were urged by a large part of the
population of the country ; and that particular plan being
rejected,/ they proceeedd at once to the extreme course of
deprising the Govern.nent of the pecuniary means of ad-
ministering the affairs of the colony. Such has been the
cause of the unhappy result that has been witnessed.
But, for my part, I am willing to believe that, even to the
last, separation from this country was not the object of any
considerable number of persons in that colony.—(Hear, hear,
from Mr. Hume.) If we were to treat the Canadians as we

should treat thole under the assumption that a great body of
the people were disaffected, my opinion is, that such a course
of government would very speedily engender that hostility
which the existence of a state of real disaffection implied.
Perhaps it may be asked—indeed, the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber who has just sat down has asked, if this is the case, if there
still exist greivances, why do you proceed at once to such mea-
sures as you now recommend to the House ; why not rather
attempt to redress those grievances and effect those improve-
ments in the Constitution of Canada, which you admit may
be requisite ? In answer to the lion. and Learned' Gen-
tleman I have to observe, that unhappily there has been in
Canada not merely a controversy between the executive Go-
vernment and the representative body, but there have been
great differences and great animosities between different
classes of the population; partial measures, therefore, would
now do no good. If we attempted to satisfy one class, we
should only exasperate the other. It is therefore requisite,
nut merely that we should do that which is just towards one
party in Canada, but that we should so frame our measures
that they should obtain the acquirseence of the great body of
both divisions of the population. The English party on their
side have, in the first place, complained, and loudly com-
plained, of the spirit of the legislative measures adopted by
the House of Assembly on all matters of a commercial nature.
They have said, justly or unjustly, that the majority of the As.
sembly has been indifferent to the interests of commerce and
to the developernent of the natural resources of the country.
They have said, likewise that the present state of
the representation of the province is one by which
they are subjected to unfair legislation, and they
demand that the mode of constituting the I-louse of Assem-
bly should be chan‘s'ed. They further demand relief from
the oppression of the feudal tenures, and greater security
and facility with respect to the transfer of landed property.
They, lastly, demand—and this is perhaps one of the most im-
portant items in the whole list—that the chief officers of the
Government, and more especially the Judges, should be ren-
dered independent of a popular assembly, by having granted
to them fixed and permanent salaries. On the other hand, the
majority of the House of Assembly have insisted upon a great
and extensive change in the Constitution both of the Execu-
tive and Legislative Councils. They have demanded that the
Government and the public servants should be made directly
responsible to the House of Assembly. They have demanded
that the whole revenue of the province should be appropriated
by the House of Assembly ; they have also demanded the re-
peal of certain Acts of Parliament, together with various other
matters. Sir, I confess that, upon calmly looking at the sub-
stance and nature of these various demands, it forcibly strikes
me that there is nothing in the demands on either side which
should forbid the hope of their being so modified, by means
of friendly discussion and impartial consideration, that they
might be settled with the concurrence of the great bulk of
the people. For instance, with respect to the measures of
legislation adopted by the Colonial Legislature in reference
to the interests of commerce, it appears to me that some
change is absolutely called for, not only for the sake of the
Lower Province, but also for the sake of the Upper Pro-
vince. Honourable Members are aware that a petition was
presented to this House, and that a joint address from the
House of Assembly and the Legislative Council of Upper
Canada was presented to the Crown, complaining of the dif-
ficulties imposed upon them in consequence of the want of
free access to the ocean : and in a subsequent address, that
province proposed, by way of remedying the evil, that the
Isle of Montreal should be annexed to the Upper Province.
The Right Hon. Gentleman last night suggested the union of
the two provinces. Both those measures might be justly ob-
jectionable to the party which have composed the
majority
of the House of Assembly in Lower Canada; but I, for one,
believe that much could be done to facilitate the future set-
tlement of the difficulties in Lower Canada, and much to
Promote the interests of both provinces, if from the two Le-
gislatures, leaving to each of them separate authority on all
matters 'of purely domestic concern, some joint authority
could be formed for the purpose of regulating all those mat-
ters in which they take a joint interest. The Right Honour-
able Baronet has said that to some measure of that sort he
himself is not indisposed; and he thinks that some such union
might be highly desirable, but that it should comprise all the
Provinces, at least that it should not exclude the other Pro-
vinces from it. I entirely concur with the Right Hon. Baro-
net in that opinion. In like manner, in regard to the re-
sponsibility of the public servants of the Province to the
House of Assembly, I am of opinion that an arrangement
ahsatdheearn only estmlyeaionssishtyed which upon,
they and
could
he
might be made. The Hon. Member for Bridport last night
argued at great length that this was a point which the
House of
Assembly
hblwy
grantingreatef or
ask for a separation from the mother country
fA wsshei
safely and advantageously to themselves. lam very far
from concurring in that opinion. The Honourable Mem-
ber must be aware that this is a demand on the part of
the House of Assembly only very recently preferred. I be-
lieve that the Canadian people and the House of Assem-
bly might be very easily reconciled to the difference exist-
ing between the responsibility of the Colonial Government
and the responsibility of the Imperial Government which a
colonial relation implies. The real object for which the re-
sponsibility of the servants of the Crown exists in this country
may be attained, and as practically attained, in the colonies
by another mode. It is true that the public officers who are
under the orders of the Governor are not immediately respon-
sible to the Legislature, but, on the other hand, the Governor
is responsible to the Crown and to Parliament for his acts;
and if the Governor should pursue a course of Government in
a manner not in accordance with the feelings of the great body
of the people, they have their appeal not against his
subordinates, but against him, by an address to the Crown,
and by petition to the Imperial Parliament. Neither the
Crown nor the Parliament has shown itself indisposed to
entertain such an appeal by the Canadian people ; that
appeal is what the House of Assembly really re-
quires, and what the House of Assembly of the other
Province also really requires, and although great disputes
and much bad feeling have been excited by confining our-
selves to questions of mere locality in this discussion. I
believe what they really require is security for good Govern-
ment. For positive misconduct and malversation in office
there ought to be some tribunal in Canada before which the
public servants may be impeached. In the same manner I
do believe that the dispute which has run so high about
English and French law, with respect to landed property
and feudal tenures, might be arranged. I believe that
this dispute is mainly attributable to the general lan-
guage used. I believe that the English inhabitants have
felt, and seriously felt, that there is fault in the French