The Sun.
London, England, 1836-06-08 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

At least two hundred and fifty Liberal Members of
the House of Commons attended the meeting at the
Foreign-office yesterday, a circumstance which clearly
shows 'that the representatives of the people of Eng-
land, Ireland, and Scotland feel deeply interested in
the issue of the question upon which the two Houses
of Parliament arc at present in collision. Lord John
Russell addressed the assembly in a speech remark-
able for its firmness, and yet for the moderation of its
tone. He stated explicitly, on his own behalf and on
the part of his colleagues, that they were resolved not
to abate one jot of the principle upon which the Bill
for the extension to Ireland of the benefit of Muni-
cipal Reform was founded. Ministers deprecated a
collision with the Hereditary Chamber, so long as
a prospect was open of inducing the Peers to co-
operate with the reformed House of Commons in the
enactment of those laws which were required by the
interests of the empire and the spirit of the age ; but
they equally deprecated any compromise of a great
constitutional and salutary principle. For a time it
was hoped that such concession would have been made
by the House of Peers to what was palpably the fixed
resolution of the House of Commons and the will of
the majority of the nation, as would have removed all
cause of quarrel from the Lower House, and produced
that harmony between the two estates which is so es-
sential to the calm and easy progress of legislation,
as well as to the well-being of the United King-
dom. In this hope his Majesty's Ministers and
the friends of safe reform were grievously disap-
pointed. The Irish Municipal Reform Bill was so
mutilated in every member—its principle was so
fatally altered—its provisions were so perverted,
in order to effect a purpose the very reverse of the ob-
ject contemplated by its framers, and by the branch of
the Legislature in which its originated—that ,:it was
returned from the House of. Lords in a sliape which
it was impossible for Ministers to approve, consis-
tently with their duty to Ireland, and to the constitu-
tion itself. Still it was the earnest wish of Govern-
ment to prevent a collision between the two Houses ;
and with this view it became his (Lord J. Russell's)
duty to submit to the meeting a series of propositions,
which, he trusted, would meet the sanction of the
House of Commons, and win the approval of the
other House of Parliament. We do not pretend, of
course, to give anything like a report of the Noble
Lord's admirable address, but we think we have pre-
served its spirit. We may, however, state with confi-
dence that the Noble Lord gave great satisfaction to all
his hearers ; and that many Hon. Members who felt
extremely indignant at the insult offered to Ireland, and
to the Reformers of Great Britain, by Lord Lynd-
hurst's nefarious " amendments," and who went to the
Foreign-office determined to spurn all thoughts of a
compromise, were won over to a more moderate
line of conduct by his Lordship's speech ; at the con-
clusion of which the following propositions were un-
folded :—First, All the provisions in the original Bill,
which were cut out by Lord Lyndhurst, are to be re-
instated. Recond, Municipal government, regulated
by these provisions, is to be preserved to the cities and
towns included i❑ schedules A and B, appended to the
original measure. These places are Dublin, Cork,
Belfast, Limerick, Waterford, Kilkenny, Galway, Lon-
donderry, Drogheda, Clonmel, and Sligo. Third,
the seventeen towns in schedule C, which return
Members to Parliament, are to be brought imperatively
under the operation of the 9th Geo. IV., commonly
called the Paving and Lighting Act. It will thus be
obligatory on the 5/. householders in these boroughs to
elect Commissioners for the purposes of that Act.
When these Commissioners are once elected, the corpo-
rations in those towns shall become extinct ; and
all the municipal properties, privileges, and inn:
munities (with the exception of so much as ap-
pertains to the administration of justice, all of
which will be transferred to the Lord Lieutenant) are
to devolve upon the Commissioners. Thus the ad-
vantages of the Corporate system, without its attendant
expense, will be still preserved to the towns in ques-
tion—which may, perhaps, be too small to require the
use of Corporations—and that gross and scandalous
outrage upon law and justice, which would transfer to
the Viceroy the properties and the privileges of the
people, will be avoided. Fourth, it will be left discre-
tionary with the remaining 22 towns enumerated in
section 2 of schedule C, which do not return Members
.to Parliament, to take
_advantage of the provisions of
the 9th Geo. IV. Whenever any of these towns shall,
however, adopt that statute, then the Corporate rights,
Jnoperties, ke„ shall become vested in the chosen
Commissioners. By this plan the appointment—of
Commissioners, conferred by the Copley scheme upon
the Chief Governor of Ireland for the time being,
will be obviated ; Government will merely possess
the right of nominating the Local Magistrates
and the other functionaries whose office will be
connected with the administration of justice.
Such is the mode of doing justice to Ireland,
and at the same time harmonising the two clashing
Chambers, which has been suggested by Lord John
Russell. Will the Tory Peers spurn the pottered
attempt at conciliation ? If they will, the people of
England must then look to their own interests, and to
the salvation of the liberties of the State, no matter
what or how ancient the privileges or the order which
must suffer in the conflict. When Lord John Russell
resumed his seat, Mr. O'Connell addressed the meet-

ing at some length. He conceived that after all the
wanton mischief perpetrated by the House of Lords,
the House of Commons ought not to be satisfied with
the preservation of Municipal Government in eleven
cities and towns. The schedules ought to be so en-
larged, as at all events to include Wexford, Youghal,
Tralee, Ennis, Carrickfergus, and Kinsale. These
were populous and thriving towns, and ought not to be
shut out from the advantages of corporate institutions.
To these observations Lord John Russell replied that
the matter might be discussed hereafter in the House of
Commons. Other Members, including Lord Cle-
ments and Mr. Hume, took an active part in the con-
ference, and, with the exception of Mr. Sharman
Crawford, who protested against a compromise, all
appeared disposed to support the view of the case
taken by Ministers. It was gratifying to observe the

feeling which animated the entire assemblage, consist-
ing as it did of nearly one half the representatives of
the United Kingdom i❑ the imperial Legislature, and
embodying all shades of liberal opinion. When Lord
John Russell declared that justice should be done to
Ireland, and that the benefit of the constitution and
laws of England should be extended to that portion of
the empire which is physically connected with us by
the channel and morally by the bond of legislative
union, the patriotic and statesmanlike declaration was
echoed by a burst of universal applause. Several
English Members of the Lower House, who usually
pursue the moderate line of policy, declared that they
received such advices from their constituencies since
the Bill came down from the Lords, as would utterly
preclude them from supporting Ministers had the
Home Secretary evinced any symptoms of vacillation
or truckling on the question now in issue. To-morrow
evening the subject will be brought on in the House of
Commons, and it is supposed that the battle will be
fought there, should the Tories adhere to Lord Lynd-
hurst's amendments, upon the motion to re-introduce
the fourth clause of the original Bill.—Morning
Chronicle.

There was yesterday a meeting in Downing-street,
at which Lord John Russell laid before his confe-
derates the course which Mr. O'Connell and himself

propose to adopt in the very disagreeable dilemma in
which they now find themselves. After all the bluster
we Minis-
terialhave heard within doors and without, the
attempt to arrange this matter is of a somewhat
Insignificant nature. However, as it involves the con-
cession of the principle which the Lords have success-
fully resisted, it is impossible that it can be entertained.
Lord John Russell proposes to give Corporations to
eleven Irish towns : Mr. OConnell stated that he
would have preferred fifteen though why either of
these two particular numbers should have been
fixed on does not appear. However, neithe, the
fifteen nor the eleven can be granted by the
Lords with any consistency, even were their Lordships
so disposed, since they have already refused the Duke
of Richmond the smaller number of seven Corpora-
tions. The Upper House of Parliament is well aware
that this is no question of any given number of Corpo-
rations ; the question is, whether political power is to

be blindly conferred on the Popish priesthood and their
tools, in a country where the Protestant Church is
already the subject of avowed and ruthless persecution.
The Lords resist this transfer of power, and in so do-
ing, they evince that steadfast attachment to the Pro-
testant constitution with which their own existence, as
a branch of the Legislature, is of necessity bound up,
and to which the people of England, as well as the
Peers themselves, are"attached by what we believe to

be indissoluble ties. Whether 'Mr. O'Connell's 15,
Lord John Russell's 11, or the Duke of Richmond's
7, Irish Corporations be submitted to the working of
the priestly and demagogue power, the great point at
issue would be alike conceded by the passing of any
one of the three propositions ; and they who now, by
a system of terror and superstition, usurp and extend
so large a portion of unconstitutional influence, would
find that system strengthened, and their insolent ambi-

tion further stimulated, by so cowardly a concession.
The Lords will not, cannot consent to this ; nor will
England ever do so.• This is well-known to the
Whig-Radical faction. Were it otherwise, would they,
who so lately threatened that any " mutilation,"as
they called it, of their corporate reform would be re-
sisted by the " millions " to the very overthrow of the
House of Peers—would they, now that the House of
Lords, with the calm dignity becoming their high cha-
racter as a deliberative body, strip the Ministerial mea-
sure of its powers of working mischief, come before
Parliament with so trembling a request as that, instead
of 60 Popish corporations they should be allowed to
establish 11 ? . This is a rich specimen of Whig-Ra-
dical bluster and its natural results. For our own
parts, we are inclined to believe that the Whigs are
marvellously well please4with the failure of a mea-
sure which nothina. but 'their own love of place and
power inildcetl them to submit to the Legislature.
So that they remain snug in their seats for another
`session, the great object of their state policy is attained.
So also the agitator himself—it can be no source of
rearet to him that a measure of which he. strongly
dis-
approves in his place in Parliament should remain a
subject of seditious controversy throughout the coun-
try. But we think that what little moral influence he
ever possessed, at least in England, can hardly survive
the ridiculous failure of his no-Peerage outcry, and the
now manifest nonsense of the threatened " collision."
Even in Dublin the agitation-power seems to be on
the wane, for by a letter from our own correspondent
in Dublin, published in yesterday's Times, we per-
ceive that a motion was brought forward the other day
in the Petition Committee at the Corn Exchange, to
the effect that the public should be admitted free of
expense to the meetings of the Committee. The
motion was passed unanimously. Its object was to
increase the attendance at these meetings. Before the
passing of this motion one shilling:was charged for ad-
mission to all but Members of the Petition Com-
mittee. Any one who knows the nature of Dublin
patriotism will be sensible of the exclusive effect of
such a charge as regards Mr. Sheil's magnanimous
" millions." Now, however, that they can attend
and shout treason without paying for it at the rate
of a shilling a-head, there can be no doubt that they
will come in aid of the failing agitation, and we shall
be favoured with numerical returns descriptive of
the crowded state of the Corn-Exchange conclave.
But it will not do ; the humbug ,of this agitation has
failed as effectually, though not as palpably, in Ireland
as in England ; and how complete has been the failure
in the latter country our readers are well aware. We
understand that it was stated at the meeting in Down-
ing-street by Lord John Russell, that it would be ex-
pedient to render the act 9 George IV. compulsory.
The act, as it now stands, is thus entitled—" An act
to make provision for the lighting, cleansing, and
watching of cities, towns corporate, and market towns
in Ireland, in certain cases." By this act it is' pro-
vided that, on the application of 21 householders to
the mayor or to two magistrates of the town, commu-
nication must be made to the Lord Lieutenant, and
that it is lawful for the Lord-Lieutenant to convene a
board to carry it into effect. The alteration proposed
by Lord John Russell would render it imperative on
the Lord-Lieutenant to appoint such a board, whether
application were made or not. In point of fact, the prin-
ciple of self-government on which the 9th of George
IV. proceeds is not sufficiently active for the purposes
of the Noble Lord, and while the householders of
towns by that Bill are empowered to establish a board
for the local management.of their affairs, should they
vvigh-it,' Lord John Russell says, ":The Government
will take your affairs into their own 'hands," and con-
struct a board for you, whether yog,.wish if or not."
The object of this it requires no treat- penetration to
discover. Baffled in their wholesale attempt at legis-
lation, the faction are determined to nibble a little here
and there, and to carry on a system of bit-by-bit re-
volution. The design is a very small one, and there-
fore not unsuited to Lord John Russell's capacity.
That it will do anything towards satisfying Mr.
O'Connell and the priests is not probable. But then
we must remember that these last worthies- are insa-

tiable by any concession short of the. entire possession
of Ireland.— Times.

It will be seen by the following article, that the
surmises which we hazarded yesterday respecting the
proposed meeting at the Foreign Office, were in every
respect correct. Ministers will stand firm to the cause
of popular government, and from the result of the
meeting, there can be no doubt that if the Lords per-
severe in their wild and insensate opposition, though
" justice to Ireland" may be deferred, yet it will be
only for the purpose of founding a purer and more ra-
tional system of legislation on the ruins of the Here-
ditary Chamber. Upwards of two hundred Members
of the House of Commons assembled to hear the
intentions of the Government, and to consider the
course which should be adopted in reference to the
Irish Corporation-Abolition Bill returned by the
Lords. Lord John Russell, in a firm and temperate
address, announced that Ministers were resolved to
insist on the entire re-construction of the Bill, the
restoration of its title, and the assertion of the same
principles in regard to the Irish Corporations as have
been admitted with respect to those of Eland and
Scotland. The Lyndhurst interpolations, with a few
unimportant exceptions, are to be utterly repudiated.
The principal towns of Ireland are to be included in
three schedules. The first, or schedule A, is to con-

tain the towns which are to have regularly constituted

Corporations. The second, B, is Co embrace a num-
ber of smaller corporate towns, which are to come
under the operation of the 9th of Geo. IV., by which
rate payers of 5/. and upwards shall be enabled to
choose Commissioners every three years, who are to
have such additional powers as will give them the con-
trol and management of corporate property, and ren-
der the administration almost as perfect and popular
as that of the towns in schedule A. The towns in
schedule C are to have the power of obtaining admis-
sion to the same privileges as those in schedule B,
on petitioning the Lord Lieutenant, and showing
cause why they should come under the operation of
the 9th of George IV. In this mode the Govern-
ment is to have no control in the appointment of
Commissioners, as was most despotically intended by the
Lords, but merely the nomination of Magistrates, as
in the English Bill. The announcement was received
with great satisfaction. Mr. O'Connell suggested
that a greater number of towns than twelve, as pro-
posed by the Government, should be included in sche-
dule A, and mentioned Wexford, Carrickfergus, You-
, iphal Kinsale, Ennis, and Tralee, as entitled to incor-
poration. To this Lord John Russell replied, that the
chief object was to maintain the principle of the ori-
ginal Bill, reserving the details for subsequent consi-
deration. Lord John Russell expressed his inability
to state what course the Lords would pursue, but
stated his conviction that his propositions were those
best calculated to place the House of Commons in its
proper position with the country. We feel with his
Lordship the impossibility of coming to any positive
conclusion. lvith regard to the reception which the
Lords will give the Bill—their conduct never having
been guided by any fixed principle except that of sel-
fish intolerance—we may except concession only when
necessity compels it—and though; as a Minister of
the Crown, we consider his Lordship's anxiety to avoid
a collision between the two Houses highly com-
mendable, yet too great a concession, as was the case
with the English Municipal and other Bills, by en-
couraging their Lordships' insolence and opposition,
will be certain to accelerate the event which it is in-
tended to avoid. Besides, it is of little consequence

whether the progress of improvement, and the_ reform
of abuses, be delayed by the tyranny of the Lords
or the subserviency of the Commons, the effect is
the same. The Lords exercise their privileges to
the utmost—they Stand by their order ;--let the
Commons follow their example in this respect—
why should they compromise the wrongs of the people
to conciliate the depraved and despotic feelings of
the oligarchy ? It is like compounding a felony to
do so ? If the Commons but stand by their order
and the Tights confirmed to them by the Constitution,
what power or powers in the State can oppose them ?
Let not concession be made a pretext for perpetuating a
worn-out system, which has survived the necessity which
originated it. It is dastardly, base, and traitorous to do
so. What is the advantage of vesting the supplies
under controul of the Commons, if by a disgraceful for-
bearance they omit to exercise the power entrusted to
them as a protection against unjust authority, and sa-
crifice the interests of the nation to the usurpation of a
titled and privileged faction ? There are times when
the boldest measures are the best and safest—such are
the present. Were the Commons but half so sincere and
steadfast in the maintenance of the rights and interests .
of the people, as the Lords are in theiradherence to their
usurped privileges, the question would speedily be set at
rest in such a manner as would effectually prevent the
recurrence of dangerous crises, and facilitate the pro-
gress of human liberty and happiness. As Hamlet
says, " If it be not now, it will be to come ; if it
be now, it will not be to come hereafter—the readi-
ness is all." Palliatives may be proposed—the Com-
mons may succumb to the Peers—the Peers may for
tie nonce be brought to reason by a new creation ;
but the country will never be secure until hereditary
legislation give place to an elective and representative
Senate. A creation of Peers would, in fact, aggra-
vate the evil, by increasing the number and influence
of the dominant party. Those who might now be in-
troduced to carry a particular Bill, would to a cer-
tainty become as corrupt, from the possession of undue
powers, as they whom they would be called upon to
control. The proposition.of a new creation of Peers
is mere quackery, which, instead of removing the
disease, would still further impair the Constitution.
The knife must be applied to hereditary excrecences.
In feudal times, when the people were in a state of
darkness and slavery, it was plausible to point to the
Peers as the pillars of the State ; but to do so in the
present day is a fallacy, as well as an insult to the in-
telligence of all rational men. In this country, at the
present time, the first want of the State is . the free
operation of the elective and representative principles.
Give us these, and all other ameliorations in our poli-
tical system will follow, as a matter of course.—
Morning Advertiser.

r!

The celebrated maxim, which has been so tauntingly
thrown in the teeth of a Noble Conservative Peer—
that every man may do what he will with his own—
ought, perhaps, to stifle all objection to the O'Connell
fund. Certainly the old adage, which speaks of "fools
and their money," has seldom been more strikingly ex-
emplified than upon this occasion ; and if folly were
the only quality exhibited, and it affected only those
who indulged in it, we should certainly be inclined to
leave them to enjoy, or rather to lose, the fruits of their
own dupery. But here the cases were widely different.
We have a number of persons attempting to raise
money under false pretences, and holding up to indem-,
nification, as a martyr, a political adventurer who, we
contend, has no shadow of claim upon the bounty of
any human being in this country for a single shilling,
and least of all under the colour or pretence put forward
by the movers of this most contemptible of all public
impostures. For what is the pretence, the sole pretence,
for setting on foot this subscription, but to indemnify
Mr. O'Connell against the expense he has been put
to in defending his seat for Dublin against the petition
of Messrs. West and Hamilton, his opponents ?
Now, had the Report of the Committee seated Mr.
O'Connell ; and had it, in addition, declared the
petition to be frivolous and vexatious, we can well un-
derstand the feeling of sympathy which such an appear-
ance of persecution might have given rise to, and that
it might not have appeared unreasonable to indemnify
Messrs. O'Connell and Ruthven against such of the
costs as this decision might not have thrown upon
their opponents. But here the facts, the consequences,
and the inferences, are exactly the reverse. Every
one at all acquainted with the matter knew that Messrs.
O'Connell and Ruthven were not duly returned, that
if justice were done Messrs. -West and Hamilton were
and ought to be the Members, and that the ex-
pense which the latter were put to in maintaining, and
at last establishing, their right, was a cruel and
ruinous injustice. And what turns out to be the fact,
but that these anticipations were true to the letter ?
Mr. O'Connell is removed from the seat he had been
unjustly placed in, and his opponents are placed
there in his stead. And who then are the injured
parties ? Can there be a question about it in any
honourable or impartial man's judgment ? Yet there
are to be found a number of Englishmen, like an Eng-
lish mob, openly taking the wrong side, and sympa-
thising with the wrong doer in preference to those whom
be has injured. It has been truly said that there is no-
thing too absurd and preposterous for wrong-headed
people to adopt. Political faction is only another species
of wrong-headedness ; of which the measure we are al-
luding to furnishes a striking example. We are curious
to see to what a length this specimen of folly and faction
will extend. It has at starting, we freely confess, far
outstripped our conjecture, alive as we are to the gulli-
bility of so many of our countrymen. We wish that
gullibility were all that we could attribute to some of the
performers in this farce. The " decoy ducks" know
what they are about, though many of their dupes may
not. We regret, however, to see so many who are
anonymous. Surely they are not ashamed of what they
are about.. Besides, their martyr is in the ascendant ;
and what, therefore, can they have to fear in letting the
world know who they are ?—Morning Herald.
It will be seen from our report of the proceedings
at Chelmsford yesterday that the Whig-Radical faction
has sustained another defeat in South Essex, the elec-
tors having returned Mr. Palmer, the Conservative
candidate, by a majority of 576 votes over those of
his opponent, Mr. Branfill, the avowed supporter of
the Melbourne-O'Connell interests. The most active
exertions had been used by the "liberal" party to ob-
tain a triumph in the county of Essex, but their en-
deavours have signally failed. No expense had been
spared ; and intimidatithi had been, as usual, resorted
to, to effect their end; but the good sense and firmness
of the electors have defeated the machinations of the
revolutionary adherents of the agitator. As is usual
on all these occasions, and following in the wake
of Lord John Russell after his memorable and
ignominious ejection from South Devonshire, Mr.
Branfill prated about the absolute - necessity of
" vote by ballot" to insure his return. He also had
the good taste to tell the electors that " South Essex
must continue for the present, as it had been, no bet-
ter than a rotten borough." The insolence of these
soi-disant Reformers is inch Gable. The force of
falsehood and impertinence could no further go than
than this notable assertion of Mr. Branfill. He, at all
events, has sealed his doom in South Essex, for the
agriculturists, under any circumstances—even on his
extravagant supposition, that there should be a re-
action—will never choose the man who thus insults
the opinions, so often recorded, of the great body of
the electors. Of course the Ministerial organs will
lay immense stress upon the majority on this con-
test being less than on the previous struggle. The
shout of victory for a defeat is, however, manifestly ab-
surd, as it is well known that it was a matter of indif-
ference to the constitutional band what was the nume-
rical amount of the voters to be polled. It was quite
sufficient that Mr. Braila never had, never could
have, or will have, the most remote prospect of success.
The " Reform Club" has commenced its career very
inauspiciously. The members may have a chance of
influencing a constituency which has nothing to lose,
and everything to gain, from Radical changes ; but
they must not try experiments with the reflecting in-
habitants of counties, who have a substantial interest
in the preservation of the Throne, the Church, and
the State.—Morning Post.

r'""~

SUNDAY.—The activity of Sir Andrew Agnew's
disciples is testified by the multitude of petitions which the
scribes and hypocrites pour forth. According to the 14th
report of the Select Committee on public petitions, 646 have
been presented, and the number of persons who join in prayer
for Sir Andrew's observance of the Sabbath, is exactly 95,773.