The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-12 00:00:00

PARIAA.IVIEN I Ali Y Di V 16101. N.

SMALL DEBTS (SCO TEAND) BILL.
(From the Votes and Proceedings of the /louse of Commons.

.. ,
WEDNESDAY, JULY 11.
Alotion made, and Question proposed, " That the Bill be now
read the third time :"—Amendment proposed, to leave out the
word " now," and at the end of the Question to add the words
" upon this day three months :"—Question put, " That the word
now' stand part of tl.e Question :"—The House divided :
MINORITY—AYES, 45.
Gouiburn, H. i Litton, Edward
Grant, Colonel F. IN Lockhart, A. M.
Grimsditch. T. Mackenzie, Thomas
Hepburn, Sir T. B. Aleyneil, H.
Hinde, J. H. Parker, M. E. N.
Hodgson, It. Parker, R. T.
Hogg, J. W. Price, Richard
Hrdmes, W. Pringle, A.
Hop,. Hon. C. Sugden, Sir Edward
Houldsworth, I'. Teigumnuth, Lord
Houstoun, G. Tennent, J. E.
Hurt, Francis Wodehouse, Han. E.
Inglis, Sir 11. 11. Yount, John
Jackson, Serjeant TCLLERS.
Jones, T. Rae, 'ir William
Kemble, Henry Nichol!, J. •

Alsager, Richard
Arbuthnot, Hon.
Blandrortl, Marquis
Broa.:ley, Henry
Bruges, W. H.
Buller, Sir J. B. Y.
Burroughes, N. N.
Codringtou, C. W.
Courtenay, i. P
Dabnryple, Sir A.
Dar:ly, George
Dunbar, George
Dungannon,Viseount
Prehfield, J. VV:
Gibson, T.

Gordon, Hon. W.

Abercremby, G. R.
Adam, Sir Charles
Aglionhy, H. A.
Ilaines, E.
liannerman,^A.
Barnard, E. G.
tlmy, G.S.
Bernal, IL
Hewes, T.
Blake, W. J.
rridgman, H.
Briscoe, J.
Brotherton, J.
Bryan, George
Campbell, Sir John
Cayley, E. S.
Chalmers, Patrick
Craig. W G.
Crawley, S.

[AJORITY—NOES,
Duff; James
Eliot, Hon. J. E.
Evans, 0.
}inch, Francis
Hawes, B.
Hector, 'J.
Hindley. C.
Howard, P. H.
Hutton, R.
James, W.
Lushington, C.
Lynch, H. A.
Marshall, W.
Martin, John
Morpeth, Viscount
Morris, David
O'Connor Don • .
Parker, J.
Parnell, Sir H.
Parrott, J.
Pease, Joseph
Pechell, Captain

Curry, W
Dalineny, Lord
Duckworth, S.

60.
Rich, Henry
Rolfe, Sir R. M.
Rundle, J.
Salwey' Colonel
Smith, B.
Stanstield, W. R. C
Steuart, R.
Stewart, James
Strutt, Edward
Tancred, H. W.
Thornely, Thomas
Troubridge, Sir T.
Vivian, J. H.
Wallace, It
Warburton, H.
Ward, H. G.
Williams, W.
Winnington, H.
Yates, J. A. r

TELLERS:
(311100, W. a
Millie, Hon.: cx

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE Or COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the chair at Twelve o'clock.
ROYAL EXCHANGE.
Sir MATTHEW WOOD moved third reading of the
Royal Exchange Re-building Bill.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET suggested to the
Hon. Member the propriety of giving precedence to the Com-
mittee on the Coal-trade Bill, which stood upon the Order of
the Day. It appeared to him most extraordinary that when.
ever any improvement or ornament to the city of London
was projected, recurrence was had to an additional tax upon
coals. He was unwilling to move the third reading of the
Bill that day three-months, but he would most certainly re-
commend to the House and the Hon. Baronet to postpone
the measure until afterthe discussion on the Coal-trade Bill.
Mr. LA B 0 UC ER E agreed with the Noble Lord in the
propriety of postponing the third reading of the Bill to a fu-
ture occasion. It was extremely inconvenient to bring on
private business for discussion at the morning sittings without
notice.

Sir M. WOOD had not anticipated any opposition to the
measure, and the danger of postponement at that advanced
period of the Session, was, that the Bill might be lost alto-
gether. He should, however, bow to the decision of the
House, and postpone the third reading till Monday next.
The SPEAKER hoped some fixed rule would be esta•
blished to prevent discussions on private Bills at the morning
sittings of the House.
The third readinr, was then postponed till Monday next.
MIDDLESEX COUNTY COURT.
Mr. C RA W FORD moved the resumption of the adjourned
debate on the third reading of the Middlesex County Court
Bill.

The SPEAKER begged to remind the Hon. Member and
the House, that it was understood no private business should
be discussed at the morning sittings.
Mr. FOX MAUL E observed that the mover of the Bill
was not in his plate, and he would suggest the postpone-
ment of the discussion till to-morrow.
Agreed to.
Mr. HLTME had a motion to submit respecting their future
proceedings which would very much facilitate the business.—
(Cries of " No, no.")
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET objected to such a
motion being brought forward without notice.
Mr. HUME would postpone it till Six o'clock if there was
any objection to entertaining the question now.
The SPEAKER said there was no doubt the question
might be settled this day, but it would be more consistent with
rule to ask the opinion of the House.
Captain WOOD asked the Hon. Member opposite not to
introduce his County Courts Bill to-morrow.
Mr. CRAWFORD consented to postpone it until Monday.
COAL TRADE.
Mr. LA BOUC HE RE moved the further consideration of
the Report on the Coal Trade ( Port of London) 13i11.%
Lord G. SOMERSET then rose to move that it be an
instruction to the Committee to make provision for the repeal
of such parts off` the Acts 3 and 4 William IV., cap. 36, (the
Birmingham Railway Act), 4 and 5 William AV., cap. 38
(Southampton Railway Act), 5 and 6 William IT., cap. 107
(Great Western Railway Act), 6 and 7 William IV., cap. 75
(the London and Dover or South-eastern Railway Act), band
7 William IV., cap. 103 (London and Cambridge, or Northern
end.EasternsltailwayeAct), 6 and 7 William IV., cap. 106
(London and Norwich, or Eastern Counties Railway Act),
6 and 7 William IV., cap. 108 ( Thames Haven Railway Act),
1 Vict., cap. 119 ( Brighton Railway Act), as impose a duty of
one shilling and a penny per ton to be paid to the Corporation
of the City of London, on coals carried on the several rail-
ways, sanctioned by those Acts respectively, nearer to London
than certain points specified in those several Acts, and which
points vary in distance from the limits of the city of London,
from about 15 to 18 miles. As this was the first occasion on
which the question had been fairly brought before the House,
since these clauses had been introduced, the Boost
must affirm the principle, that the City of London dues
should be rateable at one shilling and one penny per ton on all
coals carried within a certain circumference of the city. But
how were these clauses introduced? Without imputing any
thing to the City of London, he was hound to say that they
were much more careful of what they supposed to be their
rights than the House of Commons was of the interests of the
public. He might be met by the fact that the Companies bad
agreed to the clauses, but they all knew that the Compa-
nies, when they were applying for their Bill, would do much
to gain support, and would agree to almost anything to ob-
viate such opposition as that of the City of London. So lax
had they been in the performance of their duty, that he did
riot believe the attention of the House was even once called to
these clauses. He had no doubt it would be staid, why should
sea-borne coal be subject to a tax from which' inland coal was
exempted ? The last time the question was before the House,
was he believed in 1810. But there was a vast difference
of 4s. per ton upon all sea-borne coals, and
to protect
between the situation of the question then and now. Then
therewas
a thatduty duty inland coals were almost prohibited.
Heat., hear, hear.) The question was now in a
very different situation, for there was now no duty to
protect, and the duty of is. Id. per ton was just the difference
between the possibility of sending up inland coals with a profit.
He might be met by the assertion, that the quantity would be
so small—so inconsiderable, that it was not worth discussing_
thee he would say if it was so, it surely was not worth the op-
position of the City. The only way to meet that combination
which operated most injuriously against the lower classes, and
pettoinraotitiphrtoeheslayiMttinoettnthrte%
which was contrary to all principles of supply and demand,
and which left the great mass of the people
was to agree to his amendment. He called upon the House
to strike out from the various Railway Bills those Clauses
mia3e'rcy of the coal-owners. It was most essen-
which presented. a serious objection to the free supply of coals
Metropolis,
should bear in mind that the present
I `wain
in which to break
down that monopoly, and to enable the inhabitants
of London to obtain a supply of coals from the inland districts,
The supply which it was likely would be obtained by the rail-
roads would, in the event of thin tax being taken off, be so
was the on y y
great as to compete with the sea-borne coals. He could not
help thinking that it would be worth the while of the coal-
arrangements with the several Railway Companies,
owners in the north to co-operate with him in this object, and
••h the supply of coals would be conveyed to the Lon-
den market much more expeditiously and cheaply than by sea.
It was the duty of the gentlemen residing in and about Lon-
don also to assist him in this object ; because it was quite clear
ht to makeh
that so long as this tax of thirteen-pence per ton was conti.
need the railroad proprietors would consider it a complete
failure. He
dt trusted he
wholehe supply
ly or sufficientlycoal t
os at
the
ies fime de t
rt the
that the only hope of meeting this gigantic combination, which
now engrossed Hss
House,was
lis,
to take off the duty. He hoped also he bad shown the Houses
that the opposition which his motion wa
likely
to meet
with was not so much from the City of London as front the
coal-owners of the North. There was one
h •
ot er pto
which he would refer. The Hon. Baronet bad stated that the
object was to continue the revenue derivable from coals to the
Corporation of London to the time originally fixed, 1858, he had neglected to point out that the revenue bad so enor-
mously inci eased within the last few years, that it was expected
to expire in the year 1852. ell hoped or. the House, under all
the circumstance, would support his proposition ; for, if not,
they would let slip the only opportunity which would be
afforded them of placing the matter in its proper position,
and of breaking down a monopoly which most injurious to
was
the best interests of the
Mr. HUM E seconded the motion of the Noble Lord.
These Acts had been introduced without the knowledge of
the country or the knowledge of the House, and without due
notice. He hoped the Hon. Gentleman would not object to
these instructions, but that they would be allowed to go into
Committee, where the Bill could be altered accordingly.
Mr. L ABOUC H E RE could assure the House that nothing
would give him greater pleasure than to sec a Bill pass that
House, the tendency of which would be to reduce the price o;
coals; but that must be done by fair and just means. •He
would not go into the regulations of the coal owners in the
north, nor would he attempt to justify them ; but if they were
illegal, an Act of Parliament ought to be introduCed to coun-
teract those combinations, and let that Act be fairly passed.
If the present Bill were not passed, the City would not lose
any thing, because the City would immediately revert to their
ancient dues—to does levied in an infinitely more inconvenient
manner to the public than those that were levied by this Bill.
Therefore, looking at every part of the Bill, it must be taken
as making the best bargain for the public with the party who
had great patronage, and who was very powerful. He
felt bound in justice to the City, and to all the
great interests that were concerned, to resist as stre-