The Sun.
London, England, 1831-08-26 00:00:00

Mr. P. LEWIS observed that the promoters of the
measure were enfranchising a class that would not answer
the put .ores of the Bill. It was a measure in which
there was nothing to diminish and much to increase the
existing tendency to bribery and corruption—nothing
which tended to put an end to violence at elections, there
was, on the contrary, all that would go to promote that
force of which every observer of English election proceed-
ings so justly complained, for the effect of the Bill would
be lithe less than universal suffrage. He was not defend-
ing all the practices hitherto I revalent respecting close
boroughs ; but he would ask, was there no worse corrup-
tion in what might be called open boroughs ? Was there
not to be found in one of these some influential person
who contrived to get the voters in a club who, supplying
them with ale and smoking, would once a month or oftener
meet them, make a speech to them, tell them they were
blues, and ask them if they had not been blues ever since
the reds existed, and if ever a yellow came into the town,
would they not inflict upon him summary justice; and
having gone through that process for some time, would
not the said influential person come to a candidate and
say he had expended 500/. in keeping the blues together.
and demanding 51. a man and the 500/. besides un-
dertake to return any Hon. Gentleman who might
offer himself. What bad the Bill done to put an
as that bribery, corruption,
end to such practices,
and rotteuneas, prevailed as indisputably where there
were many voters, as well as where there were but
a few? Witness Liverpool and Dublin. In the second
and third cities of the Empire, had not such scenes taken
place as must disgust every honest Reformer ? It would
at length he seen, that there could be nothing like a useful
or a sound Wform, until an intelligent and an independent
constituency could be formed, capable of selecting candi-
dates who would do their duty ; and certainly no wise
reformer would be content without going higher than the
101. qualification. The Hon. Gentleman then detailed
the mode of bribing, by leaving money with the wives of
the electors—regretting that not only tradespeople, but
persons holding respectable commissions, and exercising
professions, were but too ready to accept them. Instead
of the qualification which the Noble Lord proposed, he
should have recommended that a proportion of the highest
rate-payers in each place be intrusted with the elective
franchise.

Mr. E. L BULAVER said, that the arguments which
he heard that night from the opposite side of the House,
were then repeated for the hundredth time, although they
had before been answered a hundred times over ; but he
really believed those Hon. Members were not aware• when
they received a conclusive answer. The lion. Member
contended, we believe, though he was very indistinctly
heard, that the 101. criterion, though below what might
be desirable in some places and higher in others, was, on
the whole, a fair criterion. The people in towns, from
being congregated tether, were more intelligent and more
conversant with their political rights than the inhabitants
of the country ; and were, therefore, he believed, more
likely to be independent. He thought that it was doing
the inhabitants of towns great injustice, and forgetting
their whole conduct on the late elections, to impute to
them depen,!ence and corruption.
.Mr. TREVOR opposed the views of the Hon. Member
for St. Ives. He denied that the 101. householders were
the representatives of the intellect and wealth of the
country. He had frequently protested against the Rill,
and should do so again. His opinions on this subject were
known, and they had procured him the support of his
constituents. Ho had been opposed there, hut the times
were changed, and those who had opposed him now sup-
ported him.
Sir JOHN BOURNE here inquire] what w,s the
question before the House?
The CHAIRMAN stated what tLe question was.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought the House was adopt-
ing an inconvenient course. The general discussion should
be taken either at the beginning. or end of the chaise. The
Committee, without doing that, had diseased the details
of the clause. He recommended the Committee to discuss
the tletails then, and enter into the general discussion of
the clause hereafter.

Mr. C. W. WYNN said a few words in the course of
the proceedings, and expressed an opinion that it was not
poisible to adhere to the plan suggested by his Noble
Friend. The discussion on the general question of the
clause must be taken when it was convenient.

Lord J. RUSSELL would not insist on the general
discussion of the clause after the verbal amendments were
tiVen:tristuflesit,there were full time.
stid, the disorder of the House
had been so great list debt, that he was almost on the
point of calling on the Chairman to read the Riot Act.
Hr, however, was not singular in not being able to obtain
a hearing, for the same difficulty was experiencel by the
Attorney-Geored, and the Hon. Member for Aldborough.
He asked the Hon. Member for Liverpool whether the
tenants of 101. houta.s in that town were not of so low a
description that tine owners of such tenements were ob-
liged by a bye-lew to pay the poor rates?
Mr. WEILAND arid, that iu such towns as Brighton,
Cheltenbeen arid others, it was probable that the houses
of a hieher rent time 101. constituted the greater part,
but in other tower the houses rented between ttu pounds
an.; tweet e pounds, would be more than double the
mother of 'rousts of a higher rent. 'To give votes to the
lot. householder:, therefore, was, in his opinion, handing
over the franchise to the hwest classes. He was sorry to
express this fear, but Ire had such a fear ; and he 1V:18
further afraid, that on any popular questions—torch as the
Corn Laws, the great accumulation of property, the
:National Debt, and such questions—there would arise great
danger to tare best interests of the ceuntry. Gentlemen
would be mistaken it they thought that they could in-
fluence the people, when under excitement, as they might
wish. This tees the most important clause in the Bill, and
be hoped it might receive a statesmanlike consideration.
.I.r.r. HUNT had listened to the statesmanlike speech of
the ion. Mende-r, and to the novel speech of the Hon.
Member. for St. Ives.—(A laugh.) He had listened also
for three Lours to rtiffereot speeches, and not one word had
be heard alsout the business before the House. lie wished
to lent n from the Chair whereabouts the Reuse was, for
be die, not know.
Mr. BERNAL stated, that he bad already read three
or four times over the clause before the Committee, anti
bad previously stated the amendments proposed.
Mr. HUNT tht tight tire Noble Lord would avoid many
difficulties, even many objections, and render the Bill much
more satisfactory to the country at large, it he at once
adopted the suggestion, that eveey householder who contri
butes to the rates anti taxes should be at liberty to vote.
Numbers were, ire was sure, the best of all securities
against undue influence, and tire use of bribery. Loa to
Preston. There were seven thousand voters in Preston ;
and he should like to see the man who would attempt to
obtain their votes through the means of bribery. With
respect to that part of the clause which required the pay-
ment of a rent of ten pounds to qualify a householder to
vote, tie should like to know whether those persons would
be qualified who paid a runt of ten pounds as rent, but a
part of which went to the landlord on account of rates
which he engaged to pay for them ? There were a vast
windier of houses of that description, both in the country,
arid in the vicinity of the metropolis. Reflections bad
been cast on the respectability of the ten-pound house-
holders, and it was said they were in the country comprned
of grocers arid chandlers; but he could tell the House that
the grocers and chandlers of a market town were persons
movine in the better ranks of life, and composing what is
called the middling rhos of society. It was very different
in the vicinity of tire metropolis. In Lambeth, fur in-
stance, where you could not enter an alley or a lane, in
which the occupiers of the houses did not pay much route
than 101. rent, and even let out single rooms in them by the
week to others, at a rent amounting to ten or fifteen
pounds yearly. He again pressed on tine Noble Lord the
propriety of adopting his recommendation.
Sir R. PEEL was willing to p,stpone his further op-
position to this clause of the Bill, until he srw whether
they were likely to make any progress with the others ;
because he must confess be really began to sympathise with
tiro two Noble Lords (Russell and Althorp) on the delay
now thrown in the wty of their Bill by those who pro-
fessed thennielves its strongest supporters.—(Cheers and
laughter.) Tirey were all anxious and ready to pass the
destructive clauses of the Bill; but the moment they came
to consider in what manner they were to repair that des-
truction by the constructive el ruses, they were met by ob-
jections aud grounds of rid from those who professed
ahem elves most favourable to Reform. The order book
Was crowded with notices. An Hon. Member (Mr.
Hughes Hughes) had no less than four—(Heart hear,
hear)—and Ire (Sir Robert Pee!) must say, he did not
see how in the present prospect of affairs they could get
over the eenstructive clauses for some months.—(Hear.)
He wished however, to put one question to the Noble
le,ed on a subject connected with that pat t t:f the clause
now under consideration. As the clause stood at pre-
sent, the person whs was qualify d to vote on account of
the payment of rent, must have paid all the rent due at
the quarter before the Period he Might be called en to vine
-sew, in the Midland counties, the custom was to pry the.
sent of uric quarter at the commencement of tlenex;
quarter, that is to say, the rent due at. Michaelmas about
Christmas. Now, the effect of the .oause would he to
rain r this custom, for it required
teat cu person should be
entitled Iv vote who had not paid up all the rent due be-