The Sun.
London, England, 1822-03-28 00:00:00

CARLTLE'S SHOPMAN.

Dr. LUSlllNiiiir•fsaia,thattii; Petition to which he was
about to call the attention of the House, was from a person in
humble circumstances, only 17 years of age, suffering under
the sentence of the law ; and suffering as the Petitioner com-
plained unjustly. He complained that the Jury who tried him
had previously passed an opinion on his case, by convicting
another person for publishing the same paper for publishing
which he was himself indicted, a circumstance which the Peti-
tioner submitted, disqualified the Jury from trying him. He
(the Dr.) considered it most important to the administration of
justice, that the Trial by Jury, the proudest boast of our
ancestors, the best monument of their wisdom, should be pre-
served in its original
.purity. This was particularly necessary
where the imputed crime was of a deep complexion, for the
mind was too apt to receive a sort of prejudice against a per-
son who was charged with any offence of great enormity. The
name of the Petitioner was George Barkley, and it appeared
that he was one of the victims of the Society usurping to itself
the name of Constitutional. The trial took place on the 4th of
the present month before the Common Serjeant of the city of
London ; and at the commencement of the trial the Peti-
tioner's Counsel objecfedlo the proposed Jury, on the ground
of their having three days before tried and convicted one
John Aramplew, for publishing the, same libel as that which
was mentioned in the indictment against the Petitioner.—
The Common Serjeant was of opinion that the objection was
not well founded, and the trial was allowed to proceed.
Now, he (the Doctor) was clearly of opinion that the Jury
by their former verdict had prejudged the Petitioner's
case; and, according to Lord Coke, such a Jury were disqua-
lified. That great lawyer laid down, that a jury who had
previously decided The substantial matter in issue, even though
it were between other 'parties' were disqualified. He (the
Doctor) conceived that the substantial issue was, whether the
paper set forth in the indictment was or was not a libel, and
that the Jury had decided on the former trial. Indeed, it was
impossible to suppose that the Jury could come to the question
with minds perfectly unbiassed. One of the principal sup-
porters of the liberty of the press was Mr. Fox's celebrated
Bill, which'gave to the Jury the power of deciding upon the
whole matter in issue, the law as well as the fact ; a right
which had been usurped by preceding Jud,ges. The advan-
tage of this Bill had been taken away from the petitioner ; for
the Jury having previously decided upon the question of libel,'
had only to dispose of that as to the publication. The facts
he spoke of were attested by the Foreman of the Jury, and se-
veral by-standers of respectability. The Counsel for the pro-
seciition, in his address to the Jury, referred them to the argu-
ments of his speech on the former trial: The petitioner's
Counsel had not'been present at that trial ; and how then was
it possible that he could reply to those arguments ? But this
was not all ; for the conduct of the Judge himself, the Com-
nion Serjeant, was not just and impartial. In his ;charge to
the Jury instead of exerting all his abilities to-induce the
Jury to divest their minds of all that had passed on the former
trial, he actually referred to that trial, and said he could not
understand how the Jury could posSibly come to an opinion
different froth-their former one. He had thus urged them to
consistency. He (the Doctor) trusted' that his Hon. and
Learned Friends opposite would have candour enough to
admit that this was misconduct. He would ask them whether,
if they had to prosecute several indictments for the same libel,
and one of the prisoners had been acquitted, whether they
would have the Jury try the remaining indictments ? Whether
his Learned Friends would say to that Jury, " You have al-
ready come to a decision, on your oaths, upon the matter in
question, and we now ask you to come to a different deci-
sion ?" He was sure his Hon. and Learned Friends would not
be guilty of such absurdity ; and, a fortiori, ought the Judge
to have summed up against the prisoner as he had done in this
case. This poor boy, who had fallen into the fangs of this As-'
sociation, could get no list of the Jury against him ; but the
usual course had been taken by his Counsel ; and it was most
remarkable that the Jury deliberated thirty-rive minutes before
they returned a verdict, although they had already convicted
upon the same publication. No one could say that new doubts
had not occurred to the minds of the Jury, or that it was not
possible that their former opinion, and the Judge's reminding
them of it, had some influence upoh their second decisitn ; es-
pecially as theyhad recommended the Petitioner to mercy.
He was sentenced to -six months imprisonment ; and the sen-
tence upon one of the other prisoners, eorNicted for the same
libel,was that he,' should be Imprisoned two 'years, acid give secu-
rity for his good behaviour for life. The 'Petitioner, however

Pzact Shvt,z4Ptiict.'

had been sent to the-Poultry Co' niPter, and pUt to herd labour ;
a punishmant not inflicted,, he believed, fOr such an offence
at any time within the preceding 25
_yearS. The offend it
should be reeollected, was merely thapoblication of opinion--
of opinions which it might be kund were entertained 14 many
then present, if it were possible to dive into their hearts. Hard
labour formed no part of the Sentence passed upon this maxi.
He (the Doator)underetood that when a person was sentenced
to be imprisoned_ in the House of Correction, hard labour fol-
lowed as a matter of course, and he belieVed that in the Present
case it had been interlined after the passing of the sentence.--
As for the general proceedings of this Society, he thought they
had been productive of the greatest mischief, and that their ill-
judged, absurd proiecutions had been the means of disseinirrat-
ing the . very publicationi they were intended to suppress ;
(Hear, hear, hear !)—and had converted the objects of them
into martyrs and victinis.—(Cheers.)—He thought there should
be snme highly responSible officer for conducting prosecutions
of this description. 'When he recollected the consequence, of
the proceedings of Sir Samuel Shepherd, as Attorney-General,
against Mr. Hone ; when he remembered 4w learning,psit,
wisdoni of that Hon. Gentleman, and that after all his proc
ings_ had failed, lie had raised Mr. ilone from obscurity to com-
parative consequence, and had been the means of spreadinqis
parodies all over the kingdom ;he really could not See w
any man could be so absurd and wicked as-to support aSomety
of this description, with neither discretion nor responsibility.at-
tached to it. The present Petitioner was an unfortunate indi-
vidual, but the circumstances of his case involved a most raae
terial question respecting the Constitutional proceeding of Trip)
by Jury a proceeding from the suppression of which he ob-
served recourse was had to every possible art. At thii peaCtice
he looked with considerable jealousy ; particularly when a
Journal avowedly supported by Ministers had stated that
Juries- were no longer to be trusted, when military eanders
were screened from public trial, and when hc heard it declared
in that House that a standing army was necessary to protect
our civil liberties. He thought that if, under all these cir-
cumstances, the House dil. not interfere, theie would be. an
end, at least m practice, to the beitconstitutional establishments
of the country. . •
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, he rose not to oppose
the bringing up of the Petition, but in answer to the appeal
which had been made to his candour by his Hon. and Learned
Friend. Surely his Hon. and Learned. Friend could not have
read the libel in question, for one more seditious and blasphe-
mous never issued from any press. Carlile was the author of
it. lie had Oct the laWs at defiance for tWelve months, and
had publicly declared that nothing -should prevent his going
"on with his publications. He said that he would employ
.the
members of his family, who Were willing to ha Maityrs in the
cause ; and upon their conviction, he would employ indi-
viduals at low salaries, to continue the Oak of 'the publica-
tions. He was quite as good as his word. He had put for-
ward his wife and his sister, who were both convicteti; and
then, true to his promise, hehad hired persons in htunble si-
tuations, of whom the Petitioner was one, to continue: the
business. Upon their apprehension, the trick was resorted to
of selling pamphlets through an aperture in the Partition of
the shop, so that the person of the publisher was effectuidly
concealed ; and then, in open defiance, there had been a Pla-
card hi the shop window,, saying, " This is the mart -for
blasPhemy and sedition." To put dowh such atrocious pro-
ceedings, it became a duty to prosecute their authors. 01.-the
Society alluded to he knew, and he should say, nothing at all ;
but to prosecute such offenders was a public duty in any one
who could bring forward evidence sufficient to convict them.—
The oajeCtion to the qualification of the Jury, which was the
principal ground of complaint, might be answered in one. ien-
tence. It was very true that the objection had been takedby
the Petitioner's Counsel, and that the Learned Judge who
presided thought it was not a sound one. The Common Sre,
leant invited te._ Petitioner's Cotinsel to put the obiectior, in
the Shane of challenge 'to the individual Jurors, or the whole
array, but the Counsel very prudentla declined doing so ;,fue
the 'supposed objection was no ground:Of challenge at all,—
(Hear, hear !)—The Judge had no right to postpone the tend
without:- the acquiescence of the proseeutOrS, and such acquit:-
cence was not given. He would read one single passage in the • '
libel All religion is a vice in society, and is the OiliTring
of ignorance and credulity." Was it possible that twelve mtr.
could entertain a doubt as to the character of such a publica-
tion ?a-(Heae, hear, hear ! s—With respect to the observations
of his Honourable and Leareed Friend as to the hard labour
imposed upon the Petitioner, that, he presumed, was riot
matter of charge against the Learned Judge who tried the
cause. As it was not included in the sentence, if the 'Peti-
tioner had been aggrieved by. any deviation from the sen-
tence; he had his remedy against the jailer in the Courts of
Law, He (the Solicitor-General) however, understood, thee
the Petitioner was not put to hard.labour ; and he believed
there was some misunderetanding on the subject. By an Act
of Parliament of his late Majesty, the jailer of the House of
Correction had the poWer to compel such prisoners to work, as
called for the prison allowance, in order that their sapport
might not be a burthen to the public ; and it was that phibably
which was done in the present case. A sentence to hard labhur
for this species of offence was, however, by no means nev : arid
it had been,followed up very often by calling on the prisoner to
find security for his good behaviour during life. In the case
alluded to by his Honourable•and LearnedPriend, the prisoner
was sentenced not to find other security, but to give his own ;
so that he waanot reduced to any very great difficulty by that
part of the sentence. There were, he repeated, many legal au-
thorities for the sentence in cases similar to the, present. .Lerd
Hale had paised such a sentence, and that, he believed, was an
authority which would not be disputed by his Honourable and
Learned Friend. Lord Kenyon and Lord Mansfield had also
passed similar sentences. He trusted he had satisfied the House
on the subject introduced by his Hop. and Learned Frierea ;
though he had studiously avoided imitating his declamation.—
He had risen, indeed principally to afford that explanation
which he thought was due in . justice to the character of;the
learned and highly-respectable Judge whose name had been
men tionetl.—(H-ear ! )
Dr.-LUSHINGTON in raply.said, that the- flonourable and
Learned Gentleman Opposite had not removed his charge that
the individual whose petition he presenad had not had a fair
trial. Neither could he admit, as had been stated, that Ole
Learned Judge who presided.at that trial could not have sent
it to a new Jury. • ' .
The petition was read and ordered to be printed.
GAOL DELIVERIES.

-Sir ELIAB HARVEY presented a petition from the Gut-:a
Jury of the County of Essex, the prayer of which was, that
some means might be devised for an additional Jail *Delifery
between the Summer and Lint Assizes. The -Hon. Bvtafatit
observed, that there could be no question:of motioimpeirfasc,
to the Administration of Justice throughout: the cOuntry,, th-Al
that which was the subject of this petition. There cotrld-be,n,
doubt that the period between the Summer and the Lent Ai-
sizes was too long for the country to be without any Jail Dell-
very, and the prisoners not to be brought to trial. At the end
,of this long term of imprisontnenn it frequently happened Ilia:
many of the prisoners were discharged by Proclaination.
the last Lent Assizes 22 were committed for trial, between'the
beginning of Adgust preceding and•the 30th of Noiterriber.—
Or these six were acquitted, and two discharged by 'Pio+ tnl.-
tion, leaving the remaining number only for puniShitinst,
and eight out of twenty-two only, who had sufferOd a 'mein:-
prisonment unjustly. Not only must the intocent- sufresky
such a system, but the law itself must be defrauded ; fat pro-
bably many committed were not afterwards prosicuted„frtm
the inconvenience arising from the length of time which had
elapsed previously to their trial. He moved that the Petition
be brought up.
Mr. WESTERN seconded the motion. He was aware
that the subject of the petition was under the consideration of
his Majesty's Governrrient,%and he hoped that it would not be
imagined, in the few observations he should make, that he had
any wish to 'interfere with the deliberations of persons iri high
onicial situations. A Noble Lord opposite had said, some tisne
back, that the matter would be taken into serious considerati'mn,
and he assured the House that it was a subject mcst deeplyfelc
out of doors. In consequence of an Act that was passed in
the last Session of Parliament for building a new gaol in Essex,
he had had opportunities of making himself acquainted •With
the working of the present system, and he was satisfied of the
great necessity there was for a more frequent gat' dolisfsy,
in order to render more efficient the administratiehof justice.
It was advisable on the secre of economy, as they, would-letsen
by it the number of prisoners to be provided foc•
also highly desirable, as afibreling the means of A irnof: (pan-
plete separation and classification of the prisoners; arpiriligter-
ing the means of carrying into effect a more complete syitfem
of -prison discipline. A circumstance bad lately .occurilled,
which placed in a strong light 'the necessity of some%theifite in
this part of the system. Ile alluded to what had lately,ttiken
place at Maidstone, where from the number of prisonfitit; XT.
Baron Utah= had been obliged to put ofF a number
• . •

• •

.

M

•••• IT.

his cases' in order to go and assist Mr. Baron Wood in the tral
of criminal cases, while two Learned Serjeants were actually
sitting similarly employed in an Anabaptist Chapel. He could
not conceive any act of cruelty greater than that an innocent
Man should continue for months under accusation of a crime,
without being brought to trial. It was unjust, because without
any other punishment, the imprisonment alone was sufficient
to break down the mind and the spirit of an individual. He
never could admit that the administration of justice was per-
fect, whilst the prisoner had longer than three months confine-
ment before trial. The Lent and Summer Assizes were very
well placed to admit of another gaol delivery. There could not,
in his opinion, be a more fit time for this than at the Quarter
Sessions, when a Judge might be appointed to preside at the
Criiiiinal Court, whilst the Magistrates took charge of their
own cases. There could not be a more appropriate time than
this, when the Grand and Petty Juries were assembled toge-
tier, with all the county gentlemen, and, as it were, the pub-
" Ac. He knew that an objection would be made to this plan,
'ln behalf of the Judges, who, it would be said, could not be
spared in term time. But six Judges would be required to go
t•o the Circuit for an extra gaol delivery through the whole
, country ; and he thought no expence ought to be spared to
gr.' 'render the administration of justice throughout the realm more
- perfect.—{hear.)
Mr. PEEL said, that any-one who had read the Petition,
- or had heard the speech of the Hon. Member for Essex (Mr.
Western), could not fail to be impressed with the importance of
• the subject of which it treated. He conceived that nothing could
,be more proper to petition that !louse upon, and that Hon.
NSembers conversant from their situations in the country, with
' - these meters should express their opinion as to the best mode
of impfovingthe administration of justice ; and he thought the
-least return that could be made for the manner in which the
unties of the Magistrates were performed, was to attend to the
sepreftentations made by them, involving subjects connected
, wall the duties of their situations.—(Hear I)—He assured the
- Nouse that this subject had not escaped the serious attention of
- bit Majesty's Government, and he hoped the communication he
• had to make on the subject would convince the House that
they were by no means disposed to undervalue the importance
of the question. At the same time, the Hon. Gentleman oppo-
eke (Mr. Western), must in candour admit, that they ought not
to approach a change in the established mode of administering
justice in the country without due caution ; and without
taking especial care not to disturb that opinion as to the
iimpartial administration of justice, which it was so desira-
ble should be entertained by the country at large. The
fact that the system of this country was the most perfect sys-
.
• tem of Jurisprudence in the world, imposed upon them the ne-
cessity of observing great caution in approaching it to make
any change. With regard to the remedies proposed by the
Ron. Member for Essex, upon first sight, he could perceive
many difficulties in the way of the adoption of the plan laid
• down by him. That plan was, that one or two Judges should
attend at the Quarter Sessions to preside over a Criminal
Court, and make the Grand and Petty Juries in attendance
co-operate with him. In the first place, it was impossible to
a carry that into effect without increasing the number of Judges,
and to that all men who had turned their attention to the subject
entertained very great objection. That difficulty therefore must
o- -be the first instance be surmounted, and then there would re-
main other difficulties of still greater magnitude. Any one who
bad witnessed the administration of the law at the Quarter Ses-
siOns, not fail to have remarked the vast difference there
was betwixt the Grand and Petty Juries on that occasion, and
-those at Assizes.—(Hear.)—This being the case, the House
• would see to what it would, tend ; and nothing was more to be
- avoided in the establishment of a new Gaol Delivery, than the
impression that criminal cases were disposed of with less care
and attention than at the Assizes. If there were an impres-
sion on the country that they were attended with less solemnity,
it would greatly deteriorate the cause of justice. Another
difficulty attending the Quarter Sessions was, that by law they
were required to be held within a week, after a certain
period, which would -disable the Judge and the Counsel
from returning to their duty in the Courts in London
in term time. He would take, for instance, the October •
Quarter Sessions, to be held within a week of, the 11th Oc-
tober. Supposing that day to fall on a Sunday, the Session
-might not begin before the -19th, and the term beginning on the
flth November, how was it possible that the Judge and Counsel
• could return to their duties -and places in the Court of King's
- Bench, and other Courts,-in sufficient time ? The same would
he the case in January, or any other of the periods. These,
• he knew, were but the details, and might be overcome ; but
the-objections as to the number of the Judges, and other ob-
, ,lections, were insuperable to any thing being done without the
• maturest deliberation. The best way was to apply the means
within their power to remedy the evil ; and he had to state
that, after fat consideration, Government bad determined next
winter to make the experiment of a third gaol delivery in all
the counties of the Home Circuit.—(Hear, hear!).—Thus, in
Essex, Sussex, Kent, Hertfordshire, and Surrey, a Judge
• would go the Circuit, and have the usual assistance of a Grand
• and a Petty Jury. These Counties were selected for the ex.-
t eriment, on account of their proximity to the metropolis, not
being so open to the inconvenience in point of time to which
• these more distant were subject ; and also in consideration of
die greater number of crimes, in proportion to the larger po-
pulation. The County of Middlesex had eight gaol deliveries,
on account of its vicinity to the Metropolis. He might make
Many other observations as to the impolicy of changing our
system of jurisprudence ; but he rather limited himself to the
declaration made, as to the nature of the change proposed.-- ,
(Hear, hear !)
Mr. LESTER pointed out the evils arising from the pre-
sent -system, which he thought loudly called for reform. He
-hoped the Right Honourable Secretary would not stop in his
• proposed change in the counties he had mentioned. There
was no occasion to add to the number of Judges, as one might
be taken out of each of the Courts of Westminster-Hall, where
four were sitting on each bench. As to any fear of there
being barristers enough to do the duty, he would advise that
no apprehensions should be entertained on that head, being
eonvinced that if they left things to themselves in this, as in
ail other cases, the supply would be found equal to the demand.
leet the Crown say the word, and the emphatic fiat be pro.
nouneed, and they would see a system, adequate in all its
parts, spring up without loss of time, and without difficulty.
Mr. PEEL stated, that he had omitted to observe before
-that no additional expence would be entailed on the Judges,
by this addition to their duties.—(Hear, hear !)—Nothing would
be more unjust, and he was sure the House never would coun-
oonance or wish' it.--( Hear.)
Pen DICKINSON could not admit that the Home Counties
were more entitled to this preference than any others. fie
would instance the County of Somerset, which had the city of
Bath belonging to it. When Government turned their attention
to other counties, he was sure they would find many that de-
-mended consideration as well as the Home Circuits. He hoped
too that there would be no additional labour imposed on the
Al agishates.
Sir•E. KNATCHBULL observed, that as the Right Hon.
Secretary had called the change of system he had mentioned
an experiment, -there could be no doubt that it would be ex-
tended if found to answer. Of the necessity of it nothing
could be more decisive than the grievance of which some of his
oonetituents had to complain, in what had lately happened at
Maidstone. It was true there were but twenty-eight civil
• . causes set down for trial ; but still the inconvenience to the
suitors in those causes was incalculable. If this were consi-
dered as a light grievance, it was very probable it might hap-
. gagain, and against this he was extremely anxious to guard.
e suitors in the Nisi Prius Court would be secured an easy
aod competent trial.
Kr. CHETWYND said, that many cases had come under
.. 43 knowledge, as a Magistrate of a populous county, of per-
sons having been longer confined before trial than after, and of
e„.. others who having been confined a long time, the Grand Jury
• .ferand that there was not even a prima facie case against them.
l'here could be no doubt that a more frequent Gaol Delivery
yea most desirable, and he was very glad it was in such good
hands as those of the Right Hon. Secretary (Mr. Peel.) He
was extremely glad, however, to hear that no additional ex-
,perice was to be thrown on the Judges; for he thought none of
our public officers were so ill paid as the Twelve Judges. He
.• ail° thought that Magistrates would be equally considered, as
they we already so overburthened, that independent country
Gentlemen were glad to keep out of commission.
Mr. W. SMITH thought the evil was so great that not one
bat ten experiments should be tried rather than that it should
not be lessened. He knew of a case that had occurred, in which
a an was proved to have ill-treated his apprentice to such an
- eirarit that he died in consequence, and that man, guilty of all
bat murder, was imprisoned for one year. •In another case a
man, after being confined eleven montns, was discharged with-
oat trial. , Surely here was an anomaly on one side or the
• other—dud the man who had been guilty of the highest crime
next to murder was to receive the same amount of punishment
we be who had done nothing against the laws of his country.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he was fully aware
of_the importance of this subject, and the inconvenience suffer-
ed undet,the existing state of the law ; but in proportion as it
was important, were they not hastily to adopt any scheme to
amend it ,without adequate deliberation: Ponhe difficulty of deal-
with theesoll in question might be judged from the circum-
atancsorthere being such various opinioni as to the mode of re-
.-- eanetly.mg it, as they had heard broached in the course of the dis-
. -vainon. The experiment spoken of by his Right Hon. Friend
-.(W r. Peel) was to be tried upon the Holm Counties; and he
was sure that it could not be extended further without new mo-
sitifihsg the Courts, and increasing the ritiliber of Judges. The
*TV irbtan of a
..wonteof !information as to the quantity o • business expected—
Ssieth ebingit.itad occurred at etherAssizeili The imprisonment
kaiftoretrial was an evil that most alwayl exist to a certain
v ex-
aj t- IA 411 they did, they must above-all take care that us-

tice was administered satisfactorily to the people.—(Hear.)---
Justice must be done without hurry ; and the people must feel
that they had the best talents of the Judges. The situation of
a Judge should be an inducement to Gentlemen of the highest
talents at the Bar. They had little enough leisure at present ;
and if they increased their burdens, no Gentleman sufficiently
qualified would be met with to accept the situation. After the
experiment had been tried, the House would be better able to
judge if it should be continued or extended, and if so, how far,
than at present.---( Hear.)
Dr. LUSIIINGTON assured the House that he had for-
merly given consideration to this subject. He was satisfied that
no additional duty could be performed by the present Judges ;
and he agreed with his Learned Friend opposite, that the ques-
tion of increasing the number of Judges was one which de-
manded the most serious consideration. But between two evils
they must choose ; and he really was at a loss to discover
where the Judges were to find time even for the third circuit
proposed by the Right Hon. Secretary. If they increased the
number of Judges, he should be reluctant that there were less
than four in each of the Courts of Westminster Hall; and he
should he the first to oppose any proposition for appointing a
Judge for criminal causes alone.' With regard to the salaries
of the Judges, he knew they were not high enough, and that
many persons had refused promotion to the Bench because they
could not afford to accept it.
Mr. Alderman C. SMITH said a few words which were not
audible in the gallery.
Mr. D. SYKES said, that the experiment had already been
tried of disposing of minor offences at the Quarter Sessions,
and although the trials there were not conducted with that de-
licate attention to form and solemnity which prevailed at the
Assizes, yet he thought the practice might be extended gene-
rally to other offences.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY, said, it was natural
that gentlemen connected with counties should have taken this
opportunity of stating their views upon the subject, and of pro-
posing the mode which they thought the most likely to remove
the difficulties which pressed upon them ; but he hoped that
even with the view of extending a remedy to the inconveniences
felt in distant counties, the plan of his Right Hon. Friend
would be found the best that could be suggested. If the remedy
should be attempted on a large scale in the first instance,
the:object might be defeated altogether. The Home Circuit was
in every respect the fittest foemaking the experiment. The in-
stance referred to of the Northern Circuit was an additional ar-
gument for a cautious, but not, therefore, less accelerated
course. There a second Assizes had been tried first in two
Counties, and then it was generalized. But a still greater de-
gree of caution was necessary here. But enough had been said
to shew the nicety of a third Assizes, and the impropriety of
rushing at once into the course of sending judges forth without
a well-digested plan. With respect to the part of the country
with which lie was more particularly connected, he could say
that Ireland looked with anxiety for the extension of a similar
plan, because the mode of holding the Assizes there pressed
on counties as well as on prisoners. This was an additional
reason for proceeding with caution and deliberation. His Right
Hon. Friend could not have given a better pledge than he had
given, by beginning on a scale which rendered the experiment
practical. There were counties where the number of prisoners
was so limited, that the more frequent holding of Assizes might
be felt inconvenient. Yet the pressure upon one individual was
not less severe, because there were but few prisoners in the
same county.—(Hear.)--If the mass of counties required it—
if it should be applicable to the great majority of counties, no-
thing would turn attention aside from a third gaol-delivery as
useful and desirable.
The Petition was brought up, read, and ordered to be
printed.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN WALES.
Mr. WILLIAMS seeing the President of the Board of
Controul in his place, wished to ask if it were his intention to
bring forward any measure founded on the Report on the pre-
sent Administration of Justice in Wales to improve the system
at present acted anon ?
Mr. C. WYNN gave it as his opinion, that in order to bring
forward any good measure on this subject, it must be looked at
with a reference to the administration of justice here, and to
prove effectual, it must be connected with a general measure for
the improvement of the administration of justice.
Mr. WILLIAMS then gave notice, that shortly after the
Easter recess, and as soon as the professional Gentlemen who
were Members of that House had returned from the Circuit,
unless it were taken up in another quarter, he would bring for-
ward this question in a Committee of the whole House, if per-
mitted to do so. Great advantage would result to Wales from
raising the character of its tribunals. He should therefore first
submit to the House a set of resolutions, and if hesucceeded in
cf.: ging them, he would then move for leave to found a Bill
on them for the further improvement of the administration of
justice in Wales.
IVIAtRIAGE ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

Dr. PHILLIMORE rose, pursuant to notice, to bring in a
Bill to amend the Marriage Act. He confessed to the .House
he had this object greatly at heart, and he was sure the reasona-
bleness of the thing would induce the House to accede to it.—
From the Reformation to the time of George the Second, nul-
lity of marriage was unknown to the Constitution. According
to the ancient law, a male of 14, and a female of 12, might
contract marriage, and be called on in facia' eccksite to perform
that contract. The only way in which such marriage could be
annulled was in the lifetime of the parties, and not to have the
effect of bastardizing their posterity. Mr. Justice Blackstone
was of the same opinion. There were some things in the exist-
ing Marriage Act of which he did not disapprove ; but there
were others, such as regarded the marriage of natural children
without the consent of testamentary guardians, which were ab-
horrent to every principle of justice. The Learned Member
cited cases in which the marriage of parties was annulled after a
cohabitation of 20 or 40 years, merely on account of informalities.
The object of his Bill now was, that it should be competent to
the parent or guardian to impeach the marriage during the mi-
nority, but not after that period. When parties came of age,
he thought they should be bound by their own acts previously.
In order that persons taking their wives beyond seas should not
be sheltered from his Bill, lie intended it should contain a clause
that if they did not state their dissent in some foreign Court for
that purpose, they should be equally bound as if they were in
England.- And unless, he would further add, all persons
marrying underage should signify their dissent within six months
after their coming of age, such marriage should not be annulled.
—The law, as it now stood, promoted perjury, and fraud, and
should be remedied as soon as possible. Since the year 1810
there were no less than sixty marriages annulled in the Courts
of Delegates and Arches, exclusive of the number which must
have also been annulled in the other Diocesan Courts, which
had equally the power of annulling marriages as those to which
he had alluded. The security of property, the quiet of domestic
families, the general happiness of society, called for the speediest
amendment of the existing Marriage Act. He had the advan-
tage of seeing that Bills of a similar nature had been sanctioned by
the House on former occasions ; and he would follow the analogy
by an amendment which he would introduce into the Bill—the
banns4astead of the present mode, which allowed their be-
ing published in any place, would be required to be pub-
lished in the parish where the parties resided. At present the
clergymen were allowed at their own option to demand a no-
tice of three days before a marriage could be contracted ; but
the present Bill would require that it should be imperative on
the Clergyman to demand it. A regulation would also be in-
troduced to prevent Clandestine Marriages, by which the names
of the contracting parties, besides being published in banns,
would be required to be affixed to the church door. He was
convinced that even Lord Hardwick and the framers of the
present Bill would have, given their sanction fully to the new
Bill, if they were aware of the consequences of the carrying
that Bill into effect.

Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
LEATHER AND HIDES.
Mr. MABERLY moved for accounts of all the raw and
tanned hides, imported during the last ten years ; also for ac-
counts of all leather exported, during the same period, toge-
ther with the amount of drawback allowed.—Ordered.

Mr. BRIGHT presented a Petition from the Corn Im.
porters and Merchants of the City of Bristol, praying that the
House would take their grievances into consideration—Read,
and ordered to be referred to the Committee on Agricultural
Distress.

On the motion of Lord PALMERSTON, the return of the
disembodied Militia of Ireland were ordered to be referred to a
Committee, which was then appointed.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER moved that
the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. HUME had some questions to put on the subject of the
returns which had been laid on the table on Monday. It would
be in the recollection of the House, that in the course of the
late reign 8,000,0001. had passed into the possession of the So-
vereign which had not been brought under the view of Govern-
ment. On the accession of his Majesty, it was provided by
Act of Parliament that all sums received from the Colo-
nies of Demerara, Gibraltar, and other places, should every
year be regularly laid before the House. In a paper laid on
their table, signed Charles Arbuthnot, he found a sum marked
as received from Demerara of 2,3701. As in the Estimates
there was, a vote on account for Demerara, he wished to
ask whether the sum he had mentioned was considered ap-
plicable to general purposes, or whether it had been carried to
the Privy Purse ? Other sums appeared to have been received
from the Bahamas, Dominica, and Prince Edward's Island.
For each of these places a vote was to be proposed, and there-
fore it was not unreasonable to ask in what way the sums re-
ceivpd from them were to be disposed of. For the year ending
in January, 1822, there was a surplus revenue of 3,6851. In
the last reign 124,0001. had passed into the hands of the Sove-
reign from this source, without the knowledge of Parliament.
This he held to be unconstitutional. He now wished to know'

•
if the surplus revenue'of
.Gibraltar was to be applied to the
general service of the nation." Part of it was appropriated to
the payment of the widows of deceased officers. The amount
thus employed was 1,5621. He hoped the remaining 2,1231.
would be carried to the account of the nation. Under the head
of Admiralty Droits' there appeared a sum of 162,8021. He
wished to ask a similar question with respect to this. There
was also a sum of 47,0001. respecting which he wished for some
information.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, by Act
of Parliament, every year the sums received from the Colonies
were to be laid before that I louse, as also the services to which
they were applied, under the proper heads. The accounts
would be found to contain a great !lumber of claims on the
sums received, which consequently could not be regarded as at
the disposal of the Crown. From Demerara, there were many
claims for colonial services, and on the Droits of Admiralty
there were many claims for the captors and others. When the
balances available for the Crown or for the Treasury could be
ascertained, they would be laid before Parliament.
Mr. HUME wished to know if they would be at the disposal
of the Crown ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said they
would be applied by the Crown, but in pursuance of the ad-
vice of Ministers, and if they were improperly disposed of,
Ministers would be liable to bear the blame.
The Ilouse then resolved into a Committee.
Mr. WARD declined going into detail 'on the present occa-
sion. He should content himself with putting a Resolution
into the hands of the Chairman. He moved,
For the Extraordinaries of the Ordnance Office, for 1822,
(deducting 44,0001. for the presumed sale of Old Stores),
248,7441.
Mr. HUME said that no return was made in pursuance of
the motion he had made, except in the case of Demerara.—He
was therefore to take that as the fair Specimen of the current ex-
pences for works in the Colonies. The expenses were under the
head of repairs, which were estimated by Gen. Mann. By-the-
bye, he would be glad to know how Gen. Mann, who resided
in this country,' could estimate the'expenses of repairs in the
Colonies ? Ile (Mr. 1-1.) thought the Colonial revenue should
be sufficient for. the Colonial expenses. In one of the items
which constituted the vote before the Committee, he observed'
under the head of repairs for Demerara and Berbice, a sum
claimed to the amount of 11,8791. Of that sum 10,0(101. was
claimed for repairing the dam or sea bank at Demerara. [The
Hon. Gent. then read extracts from the Report of General
Mann as to the necessity of repairing that dam.] lie would
contend that the bank being entirely for the convenience
of the town of Demerara, the money required for its re-
pairs should be paid by the Colony. The sum required to
finish that work was estimated at 23,2881., and he certainly
would object to pay any portion of that sum while the Colony
was more interested in the work than this country. The Colony
had, besides, an Assembly of representatives of merchants, who
voted the necessary taxes in the same manner in which' that
House voted money ; and if the works were necessary, why did
not that Legislative Assembly provide the money for them ? He
knew there was a sum of 60,0001. or 70,0001. remitted by the
Colony to be invested in the fends in Great Britain for public
uses. It was said that sum was for a security for their paper cur-
rency. But he saw no reason why a portion of that money should
not be taken to repair the dam, if it was so necessary, as was re-
ported by Gen. Mann. The Hon. Gentleman then questioned
the policy of the exchange made by this country respecting
Demerara and Berbice, and said it was extremely unfortunate,
as they did not pay for themselves. He thought the salaries to
the different officers in the Colonies extravagantly high. The
Governor of Demerara had from 5,0001. to 6,5001. a-year.—
The Secretary and Deputy drew no less than 8,0001. annually.
If those salaries were reduced to a fitting scale, the surplus
would be sufficient to discharge all the expenses of every kind
in the Colonies. The money sent by the Colony to this coun-
try ought to be applied before Great Britain could be called on
to vote away 10,0001. It might be said the Colony would repay
that sum at a future period. But if the sum was once voted,
it would be no easy matter to get it back. He believed he
had made a case strong enough to satisfy the Committee that
the item of 10,0001. for repairs of Demerara should be left
out. He would entreat the attention of the House to the
charge -of 3,0631. for the lonian Isles. That charge ought
not to have been made. When his Majesty became Pro-
tector of the lonian Isles, it was under the express stipu-
lation that there would not be any expense to Great Britain
until the army would exceed three thousand men. He there-
fore would move, that, in addition to the 10,0001. for Deme-
rara, the 3,0631. for the lonian Isles also should be left out.
He could not see the necessity at present for keeping up the
establishments for. the manufacture of gunpowder in Fever-
sham and Waltham Abbey. By the admission of the Hon.
Gentleman opposite, they had more gunpowder on hand than
could be required for twenty-five years. Those establishments
ought therefore to be reduced, and no more gunpowder should
be manufactured until there appeared some necessity for Jae:—
He also observed a curious charn included in the note before
the Committee. It was 3,200 r. for making cuirasses for the
Blues. He adverted to that as an instance of the manner in
which the public money was thrown away by the Government
manufacturing themselves, instead of being supplied by con-
tract with some of the many competitors who would offer them-
selves. He thought the system by contract far preferable to
the holding of factories of their own ; there was so much more
economy observed in private establishments. He would not
make any observation on Barbadoes, as an Hon. Friend of his
intended to propose a reduction of the suns required for that
colony. lie would move, therefore, that the sum proposed
should be reduced by 13,0631., viz. 10,0001. for Demerara, and
3,0631. for the lonian Islands.
On the amendment being put from the Chair,
Mr. WILMOT said, he would come to the first item ob-
jected to by the Hori. Gentleman (Mr. Hume). That was
the dam at Demerara. That work was, he Wilmot) con-
tended, necessary, not only to protect the ordnance stores, hut
also to protect the town itself. Much of that expence, cer-
tainly, should be done by the colony. In that he concurred
with the Honourable Gentleman. The sum required was only
an item on account, and was expected to be paid back by the
colony. It was a matter of necessity to advance the money,
as the works were begun. The Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
Hume) overstated the salaries of Governor and Secretary, &c.
He would not follow the Honourable Gentleman in his ob-
servations on the policy,of those relations between Great
Britain and the Colonies. He would positively state that the
sum proposed to be advanced was to be paid by the Colony.
He, would deny the construction put by the Honourable
Gentleman on the treaty between his Majesty and the lonian
Isles. The spirit of the treaty was very different from the
Hon. Gentleman's construction of it. It said that they were
to defray their own expences as far as they were able. He
hoped the Committee would not be carried away by the
assertions of the Hon. Gentleman, as he (Mr. Wilmot) would
pledge himself to shew that the treaty could not bear the con-
struction attempted to be put on it.
Mr. BENNET said, if he understood the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Wilmot) right, in saying that the colony would repay the
sum proposed to be granted to them, he would not say a word
against it. He would, however, say, that the colony would
never be able to repay it while its Government was administer-
ed on the present system.
Mr. WILMOT again said that the money would be repaid.
Colonel DAVIES objected to the expence of 30001. con-
nected with the office of Inspector of Militia of the lonian Isles.
Mr. WARD said that the establishments at Feversham and
Waltham Abbey were most useful. The powder underwent
certain processes of stoving and restoving, which was necessary,
for its preservation. Although they had reduced these esta-
blishments, they could not put them down entirely. With re-
spect to the opinion of. the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) that
it would be better to be supplied by contract than have manu-
factories of their own, he (Mr. Ward) thought that was a very
doubtful question.

Sir W. 'CQINIGRE'VE said that the stock of gunpowder now
on hand was 300,000 barrels, which could be kept in a perfect
state as long as these mills were worked. if sold, they would
only produce 20s. per barrel, whereas if a war should break
out, and Government were compelled to buy by public con-
tract, they would have to pay at the rate of 61. 10s. Thus, at
the commence lent of war, the country would be obliged to dis-
burse a million and a half, and the difference betwixt the two
courses would be 1,300,0001. The expence of keeping the gun-
powder would only be equal to the purchase in 130 years, rather
a longer period than he supposed the Hon. Member expected
us to remain at peace. Even if they calculated the accumula-
tion of the expense at compound interest it would be 11 years
before it amounted to the 1,300,0001. Ile thought there could
be no question of the policy of retaining these manufactories.
Mr. HUME explained, and after a tew conversational obser-
vations his amendment was withdrawn.

Mr. CREEVEY said that the Government had in the case
of Demerara admitted the principle that Colonies should contri-
bute to their own military expences. What would be said,
then, in the case of Barbadoes, where there was a fund of4oool.
a year created for that purpose, and yet that island did not pay
for repairing its own fortifications ? Instead of being applied
to its proper and intended object, this fund was given to the
pensioners of the country. lie was really ashamed to press
this subject so often, but he was sure that he should succeed at
last even in that degraded assembly.—(Cries of " Order !)
He might be called to order—he would die for it, but it was a
degraded assembly while it supported such a vote.—(The Hon.
Member was called to order by the Chairman, and from many
parts of the House.)—He concluded by moving the reduction
of the sum for the fortifications in the Island of Barbadoes.
Mr. WILMOT contended, that the Government had not
called upon the Colony of Demerara to bear a share in its mili-
tary expences ; therefore there had been no recognition of such
a principle.as that which formed the basis of the Hon. Mem-
ber's argument. He thought the lion. Gentleman would do

well to be more perfect in his geography before he discussed
such topics, and not talk of the insular situation of Demerara.
With regard to the four and a half per cent. duties granted by
the House of Assembly at Barbadoes, they were given to the
Crown in return for certain concessions and privileges at that
time conferred upon the Island. This was distinctly stated in
the Colonial Act of 1663, and immediately after that Act
passed the duties were levied, but not applied to the repair
of fortifications, which were paid for by a direct tax. In
the Acts of other islands they would find the same prin-
ciples regulating the grants ; and these analogies materially,
strengthened the conclusion that this fund was a remune-
ration given to the Crown for certain privileges granted
out of the Royal Prerogative, and which no other power
could confer. Therefore, it was, that even immediately af-
terwards, it was not claimed for the service of the island.
Mr/CREEVEY ridiculed the idea of arguing from ana-
logy upon an Act of Parliament. The had nothing to do with
other. Acts when they had the specific one before them. The
only defence of the case was the practice of the last fifty years,
that was the pensioners' title—fifty years of stealing and swind-
ling. Ile then read the Acts, and contended that ,the fund
ought to be appropriated to the f,rtification of the Island.
Mr. WILMOT said the Hon. Gentleman had entirely mis-
represented the argument he had used, by stating, with that
delicacy and refinement of expression so peculiarly his own,
that he defended the approbation of the fund in question upon
the practice of fifty years of stealing and swindling. He dis-
tinctly deprecated supporting his case by the practise of past
time, when he said that immediately after the passing of the
Act, the expenses of fortifications were paid by a direct tax.
Mr. BRIGHT expressed his astonishment at hearing the
Colonies spoken of, as they had been lately, as if they were not
worth preserving. He had always considered them as being
amongst the greatest supports of our system. He should vote
for the sums proposed for their support.
Mr. BERNAL said, the object of his Hon. Friend was, not
to refuse the sums necessary to support the island of Barba-
does, but to see that those sums were taken from a proper
source. Ile contended that the four and a half per cent. fund
ought to be applied to the expenses of the Island.
Mr. BRIGHT understood the amendment to propose taking
off 4,0001. for the sum to be granted for the expenses of the
Island. That was the only result to which it could lead.
Mr. CREEVE I/ explained.
Mr..3IARRYATT contended that it would be very hard on
the Colony of Barbadoes, because we had taken from them the
fund which belonged to them, to call upon them to provide a
fresh fund for the purposes'of the Colony. If a motion were to
be brought forward on the subject of the misapplication of the
Four and Half per Cent. Fund it should have Ins support ; but
there was not a shadow of justice in the present instance in re-
fusing to the Colony the supplies necessary for its defence.
Mr. P. MOORE warmly contended that his Honourable
Friend the Member for Appleby had made good his position.
Mr. WILLIAMS was unequivocally of opinion that the
works of the Island of Barbadoes ought to be kept in repair out
of the Four and Half per Cents., and not out of the pockets of
the people of England.
The Committee then divided.

For the Amendment 39
Against it - 81
Majority - -42
The original Resolution was then put and agreed to.
The next Resolution was, that a sum not exceeding 96,6391
be granted to defray the Ordnance expences for Ireland.
Mr. HUME expressed his satisfaction at finding that consi-
derable reductions had taken place in this office ; he therefore
should make no opposition to the present Estimate ; but he was
satisfied that still further reductions might be made in the course
of next year.
The Resolution was agreed to.
The next was that a sum not exceeding 45,5521. should be
granted to defray the charges of retired allowances, superannua-
tions and widows' pensions in the Ordnance Department.
Mr. HUAIE said, that there were some names on the Su-
perannuation List whose claims he was anxious to be informed
of. He had objected last year to one person who was put on
the Half-pay List after only three years service, contrary to the
Act of Parliament. He had also complained, that in the ap-
pointment of 67 new officers, so little regard was had to the
Half-pay List, upon which there were many persons anxious to
be placed on full pay. The neglect of this principle was a
manifest extravagance on the part of the Government. The
Honourable Member then alluded to the high rate of super-
annuation adopted in many instances. In one case, an officer,
whose salary was but 4001 a year in 1796, had retired on a
superannuation of 1,5001. ; and though he was unwilling to
mention names, he would state to the Honourable Secretary
the case of a female who received a pension as the daughter
of an officer, though she was heiress to a fortune of 10,0001.
a year. He should submit no motion on the subject, but he
thought that a considerable saving might be made by striking
off the names of those who-were not intitled to pensions and
superannuation s.
Dlr. R. WARD disclaimed all knowledge of the case last
mentioned, and expressed much pleasure at finding that the
Hon. Gentleman was obliged to confine himself to cases five or
six years old, instead of producing any new instances. lie
could assure the lion. Member and the Committee, that the
principle upon which the Ordnance now acted was, to allow
two
.years' pay to those who were dismissed before five years'
service, and to place those only on the half-pay who had served
ten years and upwards.
Mr. MABERLY contended that an important saving might
be-made by transferring efficient officers from the halt-pay to
full pay, whenever there was a necessity for making any new
appointment. _ _

After a few words from Mr. WARD, Mr. W. SMITH, and
Sir U. Bunort, the Resolution was agreed to.
The next was that a sum not exceeding 6,0001. should be
granted to defray the charges of superannuations, pensions, &c.
connected with the Office of Ordnance for Ireland, which was
agreed to.
The House having resumed, the Report was ordered to be
brought up tq-morrow.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a QUARTER PAST TWELVE.