The Sun.
London, England, 1825-03-23 00:00:00

lutely necessary to provide for ccintingent embarrassment in
that country ; fur should the pressure of distress weigh, heavy
on that country, as it had done three Years ago, he never could,
consent to conic to that House begging again fol. its betfe‘idlen.c
interposition* between the Irish poor and 'their cal:fmitieg,..-,:
We now wanted a properly inethocliied titochiSl sisteni;"for
the purpose of Classifying the poor. .Indeed without it ttri san-
guine hopes could be entertained of either quiet being enjOyed;
or
,employment being permanently afforded to theloWer-or4ers
of the Irish, population. lie stated that to give efliCacy to
the arrangeMent, it'woold benecessary to secure persona
should be perfectly competent to accomplish and methodi'ze a
business necessarily very extensive. It might baexpedii,,iit, in
the first instance, to render this measure only temporary, so a 4
io.make an experiment as to the merits or demerits which its
probationary operation might bring to light ; and as he was
now satisfied that nothing More was necessary to be, said 'ttpon
the introduction of the Bill; which, in itsTurther stages, -wouii
be more minutely detailed, and mare serupulously examinei;
more particularly on the second reading, he Should -cozw::t
himself with moving for leave britig in a Bill for ih& relief
of the poor in Ireland.
Mr. GOULBURN stated, that he perfectly 'agreed With tl;6
Hon. Member as to the propriety of postponing the further de-
tail or these regulations, though of a very comprehensive nature,
on the subject of the relief of the Irish poor, until the Second
reading of the Bill, which would be the more proper piriod.
fie would lend his-assistance, as far as that was of service, L.
wards culling from it whatever might be valuable in the
supposing it were not adopted by the flouSe altogether. Ile•
must, however, express, even in this stage, his dissent to troika
any attempt to introduce the system of English poor laws into
operation in Ireland.—(Loud cheers.)
Sir HENRY PARNELL must also dissent from theidea
of legislating for Ireland on the principle of the, poor laws of
this country, because he was of opinion, that if attempted to
be brought into execution, the greater part of the landtai pro,
perty of Ireland would' be insufficient to answer the claims
the poor upon it.

Mr. VgSEY FITZGE RA LD contemplated the prOpoitidtv
of to-night as one of the utmost importance. If the introduc-
tion of fhls'principle, upon a limited scale, should in the result
tend to render its adoption more general,'its object, he predict-
ed, would be to perpetuate the poverty of that counqy, and de-
grade its population.—(Hear !)—Against such a pAosition,7in
legislating for Ireland, he should feel it his duty, at the proper
time, to enter his protest.

Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH was not surprised to Lind the
attention of his Hon. Friend drawn by a sort of hereditary feel-
ing of patriotism to the contemplation of this subject, and the
promotion of a remedy for the unhappy condition of his country.
But he rose now to say that, in his mind, the Poors' Laws of
this country was the only curse with which Ireland had not been
visited in common with this country since her More intimate
political connexion with England.—(Hear!)—A tier our fatal.
experience of these results, he should very much regret if he
imagined their introduction in Ireland would be even in his
Hon. Friend's contemplation
Mr. CUR WEN said, he had experienced in his own town
(Carlisle) the advantage of trying as an experiment on a large
population of Irish working people there, the intimation that
such as became chargeable to the pours' rates should be sent
back again to their own country. The consequence was, that
hardly had an instance of their becoming chargeable occurred
since.

Mr. BARING} apprehended that • the objection taken'to
these Poors' Laws, which appeared to have no friend .in
that House, was visionary. If the relief was confined to the
old, the helpless, and the diseased destitute, as it had been
originally intended, the Poors' Laws were decidedly expedient
and wise.

Mr. M. FITZGERALD sincerely doubted that Ireland was
in a condition to. authorize the introduction of the Poors' Laws.
No one would shut their eyes to the wretched condition of Ire-
land, where already the maintenance of the poor cost the Weal-
thier class a considerable sum. He had often wished this sub-
ject of legislation might devolve on persons who might be able
to do adequate justice to so very large and complex a question,
whether the relief proposed resembled or not that contribution
known here by the name of the Poors' Laws.

Mr. CARIITS WILSON considered it possible that the
Poors' Laws might be tried in Ireland with more probability uf
giving public satisfactiOn, because, as they already had riO sys-
tem of that kind, the known inconvenience and oppressive re-
gulations in operation here. might be in their first introduction
in Ireland altogether avoided.

Mr. 11 lON said; that he had changed his mind consider_
ably within the last two or three years with regard to the Poor
Laws. He was convinced that if it was not for their operation.
and for the protection that they afforded to the peasantry, that
the farmers would discharge the whole of the agricultural Work-
men whom they employed at two shillings a day, and tale on
as substitutes the Irish peasantry, whom they could -get •to
work for them at one shilling a day, and nothing restrained
them from so acting; but the certainty ,that the English pea-
santry would then fall on them for support as paupers. •
Mr. BENETT (Wiltshire): was convinced • that the Poor
Laws were necessary,nd tic 'hoped that the Hon. ?M ember
for Dublin would persevere; 'he would certainly giVe",kin) Lis
support.
After a few words from r. GRATTAN in reply, leave
was given to bring in the Bill.
TREATY OF GHENT.
Mr. Secretary CANNING brought np certain papers rela-
tive to the first article of the Treaty of Ghent.. Tire Right
Hon. Gentleman said, that in consequence of the diicnssion
which had taken place last night in the Committee, on the es-
timates for Civil Contingencies, with reference to thSt part of
the Treaty which had been referred to RuFsia, he had been in-
duced to inquire for the papers containing his Imperial Majes-
ty's decision, when he for the first time discovered that they
had not been before laid on the table of the House. The de-
cision had been sent to' this country from Russia, in the kap -
mor of 1823,. but some circumstances then happening-to pre-
vent its being laid before Palliainent, it had ever since been
lost sight of, until the debate of last•night had brougtit it, into
notice. He concluded by moving that the paperi be laid on
the table. •

. •
i\lr. HUME wished to kriow if the whole of the article% con-
tained in the Treaty of Ghent had been carried into effect.
31r. Secretary CANNING reminded the Honourable Gen-
. tlernan, that it was not the Treaty of Ghent that he had then
brought up, that it had been laid on the table long'ago, but
was merely an article of it on a disputed point, which. had
been left to the arbitration, of the Emperor. of Rusk,''' and
. which related to the restitution of slaves in'Americ.a.
'The papers were then laid on the table.`. •
CUTLERY TRADE.
Mr. S. WORTLEY moved for leave to bring in a Bill for
the prevention of fraud, in carrying on the Cutlery Trade in
England. .
After an observation from Mr. Hu }it', leave was given.
PARISH SETTLE3IENTS.
:ilr; S. BOURNE, in rising to move far leave to bring in a
Bill tbr an alteration in the Law of Settlement, stated that it
was his object to define'dectirately what: constituted a, tene-
ment, the renting of which entitled the tenant to; claim a set-
tlement in the parish. The. Right Honourable Gentlemen
took a review of the Law of Settlements, the greater part of
which, he contended; was of so contradictory and inconsistent a
Charaiter, as very frequently to produce conflicting-decisions
from the JudgeS. He wished, he said, to give effect to the 59th
of the late King, which had been found so very beneficial, but
which hail been nearly superseded by the revival of: someathe
He thought that that Act:woulffbe best enforced by
substittiting assessment for..value, and by putting the rent: of
the tenement totally out of the question. The ,Itight fi-1911-
Gentleman 'concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill for
altering the Laiv of Settlement, in so far as it regarded the rent-
ing of tenements, and being assessed to the poor rates,
After a few 'words from Mr. Curtail' Col. Wend, Mr. Sykes,
Col. Davies, Mr. Bennett, and Mr. Lockhart, leave w.as.givcn
to bring inffie Bill.
'TITHE COMPOSITION ACTS.-
Mr. lIU3IE said, that about four years ago, an Act of Par-
liament laid passed, regulating the _Composition ;of Tithee in
Ireland. At the period •of its passing, he did not...anticipate
many advantages from it, but he had heard,- that it had, proved
brought; before
.any
extremely beneficial, and by way of ascertaining what,its real
results were, .he moved that there be laid on the.table, Returns
of the number, and description of all persons in Ireland,. with
the yeark4o22..
whom'agreements had been Made under the,Corornimion Act.
A return of the number of Tithe .Cases„tbat. had. been brottght
be'oeinfri-theAecisiotts thereon.
before the ConsiStorial Courts in Ireland, -in' the, years.lB2g, and
1823,, stating in what way they had been disposedlg. Atraltirn
o
and
rltif
2ttahhe,
er
e(lotnumberiuvretsto:tioTft
tAhi vesissl,ilsw3taiilntlisit
at 3 ean
rh td
accountr
• (101.11,1117TtN. said, that he had; no objeotiorrstk thetro-
litin,: though he- thouglit.there would be sorne,diiiieulti in die-
.
•